HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: berne@nova1.stanford.edu (Jean-Francois Berne)
Subject: Re: EC AND TURKEY....
Organization: Stanford University
Date: Wed, 30 Sep 1992 01:01:02 GMT

In article <29SEP199215080511@lims01.lerc.nasa.gov> scgeoff@lims01.lerc.nasa.gov (GEOFF ELLIOTT) writes:
>With all of the chaos in the EC right now (currency, economies, etc) and 
>the violence against the Bosnians that the EC is unwilling to do anything
>about, Turkiye would be crazy to even want in the EC now anyway.
>
>Turkiye should concentrate on developing its relationships with the former
>Soviet republics and leave Europe to solve its own problems.
>
>It is certainly a shame that the poorest member of the EC should have any
>say against new members.

In the EC, when we refer to that "shame", we call it "EC law", or
"Democracy".

>Why don't the Europeans simply admit that they
>have a racist feeling against Turks and be done with it????

Because it's wrong. Most Europeean countries have exactly NO
feelings about Turkey. Most European people don't know where
Turkey is, never heard about it, and have nothing to do with it.

Before I started reading the news, Turkey was for me just a name,
a spot on the world's map, something like 'Bahrein': you just
know it exists.
So drop the paranoia for a minute.
From: sommar@enea.se (Erland Sommarskog)
Subject: All sorts of Macedonians
Organization: Enea Data AB
Date: Sun, 4 Oct 1992 11:20:48 GMT

Luben Boyanov (lb@cs.man.ac.uk) comments my .signature:
>According to all books from the past, in Macedonia there were 6
>nationalities (races, etc - different authors use different words) -
>Bulgarians, Greek, Serbs, Vlachs (and not Roumanian, despite that the they
>are considered as the same), Albanians and Turks. After all Mustafa Kemal
>Attaturk was a Macedonian Turk (born in Salonika - i.e. Thessaloniki).

Well, I think you have missed the point. When you talk about Greeks
from different regions, you talk about Macedonians, Thessalians,
Cretans etc. When you do the same for Bulgarians, you talk about
Dobrujans, Macedonians etc. And in Roumania the Vlachs who came
to Roumania after the Balkan Wars are (nick)named Macedonians.

Whether the division of Turks, Albanians or any other nationality
contains any Macedonians, I don't know, but I wouldn't be surprised.

So much for Macedonian being something exclusively Greek.
-- 
Erland Sommarskog - ENEA Data, Stockholm - sommar@enea.se
There are many sorts of Macedonians: Greek, Bulgarian, Roumanian, Macedonian...
From: scg@bashan.cs.wisc.edu ( Scg)
Subject: Re: IRA-OSE, British behavior, and a "clean sheet fot Paeonia"
Organization: U of Wisconsin Madison - Computer Sciences
Date: Wed, 30 Sep 1992 08:35:33 GMT

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Forwarded message follows:

From levi3361@oce.orst.edu  Tue Sep 29 12:50:16 1992
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Date: Tue, 29 Sep 92 10:50:11 PDT
From: Murry Levine <levi3361@oce.orst.edu>
Message-Id: <9209291750.AA26822@oce.orst.edu>
To: soc-culture-greek-post
Subject: Re: IRA-OSE, British behavior, and a "clean sheet fot Paeonia"

In article 12787 of soc.culture.greek, dk0a@ns1.cc.lehigh.edu
 (DIMITRIOS KOUVATSOS) writes :

(stuff deleted) .....
> War II. I will let a British writer, who recently answered Mr. Malcolm's
> smear against Greece in the "Spectator" with an article in that same magazine
> (September 12), speak. Patrick Leigh Fermor writes, in the article "A clean
                         ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
> sheet for Paeonia":

        My memory is not very reliable, but I'm pretty sure that Patrick 
Lee Fermor is one of the two SAS commandos that abducted the German
General Kraipe from Crete in cooperation with the Cretan resistance.
It's an amazing story and there are pictures of PLF with the traditional
Cretan dress (vrakes-stivania).   

So, PLF continues in his article :
> I would not expect this to ring a bell to people like Mr. Fear - yet it is
> true that during the hard, bleak period of 1940-1941, when France had
> collapsed, Russia was still friendly with the seemingly all-conquering Axis,
> America was neutral and Great Britain was fighting for survival, little
> Greece alone was the only country fighting on Britain's side, first beating
> the Italians and then taking on both Italy and Nazi Germany to the end
> (without requesting an armistice like the French, and being instrumental in
> fatally delaying the German invasion of Russia) instead of accommodating the
> Axis powers by allowing them bases in Greece against Britain as the Italians
> had demanded, the only ally in Britain's desperate time of need... Winston
> Churchill would never forget it, yet after the war, and starting with the
> Cyprus issue, the British adopted a consistent anti-Greek and pro-Turkish
> policy (while Turkey had unashamedly betrayed its traditional British
> protectors in 1915 by entering WWI on the side of Germany and shutting off
> the Straits) and even today they remain the comparatively more negatively
> inclined to Greece of the larger European countries.

Nice to hear from you, Patrick Lee Fermor. 

> Dimitris Kouvatsos
   
Vassilis Zervakis
Oregon State University
From: michael.polymenakos@factory.com (Michael Polymenakos)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.greek
Subject: RE: PROSELYTISM
Date: 29 Sep 92 22:06:00 GMT
Reply-To: michael.polymenakos@factory.com (Michael Polymenakos)
Organization: Invention Factory's BBS - New York City, NY - 212-274-1243v.32bis



>About Muslims in Greece I'm really not very informed because I haven't
>met any, but from what I know, they can at least avoid the "Orthodox
>religion" classes in primary/high-school (you can even avoid them by
>declaring atheist).  Maybe they can have classes on their religion too.

 Moslems have teir own schools (or they can attend the Greek schools if
they prefer). The greek government pays money every year to purchause
school books from Turkey, so as to implement a curriculum that is
similar to that of Turkey. There is no treaty that obliges Greece to do
so, but this is what is done. No wonder Turks living in Greece have a
much higher literacy rate than their relatives in Turkey.

 As for other religions: In my last three years of high school there was
a Greek-Jewish kid in attendance. He was exempt from 'Thriskeytika', but
he had to provide proof that he was attending a similar class for his
religion. (Actually he would type up something himself, and sign it
himself. We all wished we could do the same....)

Michael
From: sadi@physics1 (Sadi Turgut)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.greek
Subject: Re: Turkish Logic
Date: 6 Oct 1992 06:19:18 GMT
Organization: University of California, Berkeley
NNTP-Posting-Host: physics1.berkeley.edu

In article <Oct01.161641.73060@yuma.ACNS.ColoState.EDU> cc433336@LANCE.ColoState.Edu (Constantinos A. Caroutas) writes:
>
>There is no such effort. If there were, a lot less Greeks would visit
>Turkey. I wish there was though because visitors to Turkey help finance
>the Turkish occupation of Cyprus.
>
>Turkey was considered a friend of Germany at the time. The allies would
>not consider a Turkish move on the islands a hostile act to the Germans,
>but a friendly one. Inonu knew that the allies would not let him keep
>the islands.

 Only Greeks think that Turkey was 'a friend of Germany' at that time,
and for the obvious reasons. Turkey were always in the Allied side, and
would declare war to Germany, when it invaded France, if Britain
fulfilled their duties spelled in the tripartite agreement. During the
war, Britain continued to force Turkey to declare war to Germany, but
without giving enough supplies for defence. If Turkey decided to invade
Dodecanese at that time, Britain (and US) would be more than happy for
this move. And of course, if Turkey entered war at that time, Western
Thrace would be in different hands. :-). Believe me. Allies wouldn't
do a single thing to prevent Turkey from such a move, instead, they
would help us to make sure that invasion of Balkans is as quick as
possible.

 One thing that you don't understand, (and will not probably) is that
Turkey will not enter any military conflict unless it is completely
necessary (such as a possible massacre of Cypriot Turks.) Of course,
in Greek books, Turks are always depicted as the 'hordes who came
from Central Asia' and they are always (culturally?) "asians" and "barbarians"
no matter what. So, even in the next thousand(say)  years, they won't change
and will always like to fight wars. So, they will always want to
invade the Aegean islands.

>Constantinos A. Caroutas

 Sadi Turgut
-- 
  The Greeks have survived in spite of all the world could
do against them, and all they could do against themselves.
              --Sir Winston Churchill
Newsgroups: soc.culture.greek
From: cc433336@LANCE.ColoState.Edu (Constantinos A. Caroutas)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.greek
Subject: Re: Turkish Logic
Date: 6 Oct 92 19:43:26 GMT
Organization: Colorado State U. Engineering College

In article <1ar9poINN924@agate.berkeley.edu>, sadi@physics1 (Sadi Turgut)
writes:
>
> How about Enosis?  Isn't it based on Megali Idea? Although, today people
>do not talk much about it, it didn't disappear yet. During Papandreu's

It's based on the desire of the majority of the Cypriots to unite Cyprus
with Greece. Don't forget that in 1939 Hatay that had a 60 percent Turkish
population united itself with Turkey. The idea of enosis is contemporary
to that event. Why couldn't Cyprus which had 80 percent Greek population
unite itself with Greece?

>visit, lots of 'Enosis' slogans were heard. Also, what does 'pan-Hellenic'
>mean? And why 'Hellen-ism' frequently means 'Greeks'?

Hellas is Greece, Hellenism is the Greek nation, and panhellenic is of all
Greeks.
--
Constantinos A. Caroutas

"It's easy to make mistakes when others will be held responsible."
Xref: sparky soc.culture.greek:9397 soc.culture.turkish:10352
From: sadi@physics1 (Sadi Turgut)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.greek,soc.culture.turkish
Subject: Re: EC AND TURKEY....
Date: 30 Sep 1992 10:41:07 GMT
Organization: University of California, Berkeley
NNTP-Posting-Host: physics1.berkeley.edu

In article <1992Sep29.222530.3437@athena.mit.edu> aleck@athena.mit.edu (Aleck H Alexopoulos) writes:
>
>Ahhhh. Democracy is such a difficult concept for some......
>

 Especially for the Greeks. The next day, one Greek mentioned that
Democracy is an "invention" of Greeks. :-)  Invention??? This
should be how the Greeks see what Democracy is. While you have
invented, you have the exclusive copyright. Oh, oh, oh, oh. This
is going to be another occasion to celebrate in Greek-Copyright-Day.
Think about it. All those countries US, UK, etc. should
come to you and ask special permission to use Democracy in their
countries. Of course this shouldn't be too much for the inventors of
Democracy.

 Seriously though. I have suspicions about how the Greeks view
Democracy. I have seen people on this net interpreting Democracy
as the rule of majority, someone even suggested something like
Republicanism. If somebody asks to Greeks what Democracy is, I am
sure answers will cover the whole branch of misinterpretations,
while the only point they will agree will be that it was "invented"
by their "ancestors."

>Aleck


 Sa`di
-- 
  The Greeks have survived in spite of all the world could
do against them, and all they could do against themselves.
              --Sir Winston Churchill
From: ptg2351@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (Panos Tamamidis )
Newsgroups: soc.culture.greek
Subject: Re: Turkish Sentiments or "Aw, shucks, we lost an empire"
Date: 27 Sep 92 05:40:28 GMT
Organization: University of Illinois at Urbana

sadi@physics1 (Sadi Turgut) writes:

>Why do they try to show that every Turk desires an
>empire or a fascist junta (like the Greek one.)

 Mr. Turgut, you should be informed that we have placed our dictator and
 his clique to prison for life.  Perhaps, it is time to inform the group how
 Turkey has treated her last dictator, namely gen. Evren.  Could you please
 explain this thing to the group, or are you going to swallow your tongue?

 Of course, it is stupid to suggest that every Turk desires an empire or
 a fascist junta.  I personally wish Turkey was 100 times more democratic
 and advanced than it is today.  However, there is a clique that controls
 politics in Turkey.  When newspapers suggest that a military junta is the
 best thing for Turkey, then I feel very sorry for Turks.  Every person who
 is supposed to be educated, i.e. people like you, should fight for the
 democracy in Turkey.  

> Sa`di the barbarian


-- 
 *> Panos Tamamidis
From: maria@castle.ed.ac.uk (M Iordanidou)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.greek
Subject: test
Date: 29 Sep 92 16:12:51 GMT
Organization: Edinburgh University

sorry, TEST,
not a faked message. M.M.
From: sadi@physics1 (Sadi Turgut)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.greek
Subject: Re: GEORGE ELLIOT'S IDEA ABOUT EC...	<29SEP199215080511@lims01.lerc.nasa.gov>
Date: 30 Sep 1992 10:23:35 GMT
Organization: University of California, Berkeley
NNTP-Posting-Host: physics1.berkeley.edu

In article <9209292015.AA06771@emoryu1.cc.emory.edu> phssvb@unix.cc.emory.edu writes:
>The poor soul G. Elliot writes in article 
><29SEP199215080511@lims01.lerc.nasa.gov>

 :-)

>I agree, that it is about time, Turkish politicians to realize that their
>sphere of 
>future interest should be in Central Asia and not in Europe... 
>It will be beneficial to everybody....

  He he. This reminds me old Greek idea (was it Megali idea?) of sending
barbarian Turks back to central Asia. He he. Well. Maybe the barbarians
get reasonable (with the help of Greeks) and they decide to go back to
Central Asia by themselves. He he. Dream on!

>Unfortunately, successfull Turkish administrations have understood the
>international relations not on equal basis among partners and neighbors 
>but on power politics. The weak and the poor must not have a saying.
>This is another left-over from the Ottoman period.

 Is this why Greece is *the* main country blocking the enterance of Turkey
into EC? Is this why the Greek government threatens EC for securing the
non-recognition of Macedonia?!?  The weak and poor must not have a saying
ha? Is this why Greece is pushing Macedonia into the hands of Serbia?!?
I will tell you what Spiros. Greece is a leftover from the Ottoman
period with your own reasoning. When I follow this newsgroup, and see
all the accusations that the Greeks make against Turkey, I can see
only one reality: The Greeks are very much like Turks with their
own descriptions.


>Spiros


 Sa`di
-- 
  The Greeks have survived in spite of all the world could
do against them, and all they could do against themselves.
              --Sir Winston Churchill
From: xx243@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (St. Ignatius High School SIG)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.greek
Subject: Looking for the Hippocratic Oath
Date: 1 Oct 1992 12:18:03 GMT
Organization: Case Western Reserve University, Cleveland, OH (USA)
Reply-To: xx243@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (St. Ignatius High School SIG)
NNTP-Posting-Host: thor.ins.cwru.edu



Can anyone there please provide me with a copy of the Hippocratic Oath in
Greek?  Any help would be be greatly appreciated...




                          --Karl Kimpo '93, aa748@po.cwru.edu
                                St. Ignatius HS SIGop
-- 
Saint Ignatius High School          >-<          The opinions expressed
1911 West 30th Street               >-<          here are not necessarily 
Cleveland, Ohio 44113-3495          >-<          those of Saint Ignatius
(216) 651-0222                      >-<          High School.
Xref: sparky soc.culture.greek:9458 soc.culture.europe:8766
From: athanass@cs.concordia.ca (MICHAILIDIS athanassios)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.greek,soc.culture.europe
Subject: Re: Greek justice towards a Jehovah Witness.
Date: 4 Oct 92 00:39:52 GMT
Followup-To: soc.culture.greek
Organization: Computer Science, Concordia University, Montreal, Quebec


For those who still can't figure out paths and email addresses, this comes 
from Canada, enjoy...   

In article <9210030201.AA26092@cc.UMontreal.CA> sebr@iro.umontreal.CA (Sebastien Racine *Rocker*) writes:
>
>     Hi,
>
>     I heard that public advocation of religions in 
>     Greece was strictly prohibited according to a 
>     law (1939).

Wrong. The words you are looking for is religious recruitment. 

>     Greek Orthodox church is allowed to 
>     make propoganda of any kind, on the other hand 
>     any public activity of other religious branches 
>     is strictly prohibited. Yesterday I have learned 
>     that a friend of mine working for our organization 

Organization ? I though we were talking about religion :) 

>     in Greece was prosecuted because of his religious 
>     beliefs. We, Jehovahs' Witnesses strongly protest this 
>     behaviour of the Greek government. While allowing TV 
>     programs and prayers for orthodox church but 
>     prohibiting other religious TV programs, talking 
>     about democracy is useless.


Is it the case that in one (at least) other Canadian Province there is a
similar provincial law, that prohibits any tele-evangelist broadcasts ? 
You find out more about it by calling the C.R.T.C.   

>
>     We strongly protest such a law in an EC country 
>     which must be assumed to be democratic. 
>     Why was Greece accepted to the EC, anyway?

Canada is a democratic country, I know that first hand. My suggestion:
start by questioning and protesting in your own back yard before going
overseas...  

-thanassis   
#include <$$$.lots.of.it>
From: sadi@physics1 (Sadi Turgut)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.greek
Subject: Re: Turkish Logic (was Re: Understanding...)
Date: 1 Oct 1992 04:11:57 GMT
Organization: University of California, Berkeley
NNTP-Posting-Host: physics1.berkeley.edu

In article <Oct01.020521.90900@yuma.ACNS.ColoState.EDU> cc433336@LANCE.ColoState.Edu (Constantinos A. Caroutas) writes:
>>
>> This is a general practice in Greece as I am informed. The main purpose
>>is to prevent tourists from going to Turkey. By doing this they are
>>either trying to prevent Turkey from having foreign currency (which has
>
>Interesting logic. Then, can you explain why Greeks visit Turkey and spend 
>money there?

 Simple. There are Greeks that do not believe in this propaganda. I think
this is what you call "Turkish Logic." But, what I want to understand is the
"Greek Logic." Why is there a concerted effort to prevent tourists from
visiting Turkey?

>>with their propaganda. The first one was about a Greek who was telling
>>his friends that Turks want to invade the Aegean islands. The last one
>
>Didn't your president say last year that the Dodecanese Islands should be
>Turkish?

 My friend. When Germans were retreating in all fronts and it became evident
that they are going to lose the war, the German soldiers in Dodecanese
applied to the then Turkish president Ismet Inonu. They openly invited
the Turks to invade the islands by saying "don't leave us to the British
and Greeks."
 Inonu refused. Do you think, Turkey who refused to invade
at that time, will invade in the future?

 When we ask Greeks about the proof of Turkey's evil intentions, they
will point out a speech made by a few politicians (mostly misinterpreted
demands on sea-shelf.) These things translated as "territorial demands"
in Greece, but the similar actions done by some Greek politicians,
(Megali idea, recapture of Asia minor) is usually interpreted as
exceptions. Why? If Turkey has territorial claims, then Greece has
territorial ambitions with the same logic. Don't you agree?

>Constantinos A. Caroutas

 Sadi Turgut (half a barbarian today)

-- 
  The Greeks have survived in spite of all the world could
do against them, and all they could do against themselves.
              --Sir Winston Churchill
From: dk0a@ns1.cc.lehigh.edu (DIMITRIOS KOUVATSOS)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.greek
Subject: Re: OSE: A troskyist fringe group
Date: 1 Oct 92 02:07:53 GMT
Organization: Lehigh University

Mr. Wallace, I admit I did get carried away a bit; mastery of English is a
silly thing to argue about. Case closed with no ill feelings on my part.

Regarding my signature file, do you really believe that anybody who likes a
quotation in his signature file must have an 'M' mentality? I think it is you
who got a little carried away on that.

Regarding politeness, you are right.

regards,
Dimitris Kouvatsos


-- 
------------------------    "Avnr Ellnv basileus Makedovwv"
+= Dimitris Kouvatsos *=    "[I am] Greek man king of the Macedonians"
<dk0a@ns1.cc.lehigh.edu>
------------------------                    -- Alexander III the Great
From: kutluk@ccl.umist.ac.uk (Kutluk Ozguven)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.greek
Subject: Re: HHHHMMMMM.....
Date: 2 Oct 92 00:52:49 GMT
Organization: Manchester Computing Centre

In <Bv3E1v.1Hy@gabriel.keele.ac.uk> cla04@seq1.keele.ac.uk (A.T. Fear) writes:

>From article <24SEP199210500165@scsuc.ctstateu.edu>, by karageorgiou@scsuc.ctstateu.edu (Voodoo Man : member XMAK):
> 
>> 	HHHMMM...., Did anyone notice that since Andy Fear started posting
>> the Skopjean Propagandists' postings have dwindled to a trickle.:-)

>Curses rumbled, that's right folks I'm really an Australian of Turkish descent 

Since you are a fellow Turk then let's invite you to the Anti-Hellen 92,
the evil and diabolical congress of world Turks. This years' is held
in Madagascar (just pop in on the way back home) and the topics are:
"how to invade Greece", "not dolmades but dolma", "remember how the
Greeks polished our shoes - it really felt good then" and  of course 
"Macedonia is anything but Greek". Don't forget to pick your best
Mongolian combat uniform, for otherwise you wouldn't be admitted to
"feeding the shark" ceremonies, and guess who we  have for this year!  

Andy Fear. That's a strange name for a Turk. Are you sure you haven't
mixed with the infidel foreigners ? If you are lying,  our
mega-evil shark will get fatter for we Turks don't like lies ! ISN'T
IT Abdul [with a huge moustache, bold head, Tarzan dress and
Erol Tash laughter, "yes boss"] ?

Evil Turks' committee 
5th Secret Gate in Topkapi Palace
Istanbul, Turkey 

(please remember the Mongolian uniform)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.greek
From: piij@hippo.ru.ac.za (Mr ID Jennings)
Subject: Teaching English in Greece?
Summary: Help wanted for English-teaching job in Greece.
Keywords: teach, English, Greece
Organization: Rhodes University, Grahamstown, South Africa
Date: Wed, 30 Sep 1992 15:50:39 GMT

I am a South African graduate with a bachelor's degree in English and an
MA in philosophy who is interested in teaching in Greece during 1993.  I
have a TEFL (teaching English as a foreign language) diploma as well as
experience in teaching English to 2nd-language learners in South Africa
and, ideally, this is the kind of teaching I would like to do.

I would greatly appreciate any advice on how to go about trying to
arrange such a job - either before I leave South Africa or on my arrival
in Greece.

I would prefer it if people would reply to my personal e-mail address at
piij@hippo.ru.ac.za

Thank you very much.
-- 
Ian Jennings
Philosophy Department
Rhodes University
Grahamstown 6140
Xref: sparky soc.culture.greek:9500 soc.culture.bulgaria:1478 soc.culture.yugoslavia:9011