From: gecko@zooid.guild.org (GECKO)
Newsgroups: talk.origins
Subject: Re: Ted's Greco/Roman Saturn-Worshippers!
Date: 26 Jul 92 18:45:10 GMT

 
  Teddie Holden writes: 
 
>Primative peoples (in our day and age) tend to worship whatever strikes 
>them as most awesome, amazing, exciting etc. in life. 
 
     This is an extremely patronizing missionary-style oversimplification 
     of pagan religions, exactly what one might expect from an arrogant 
     ethnocentric Bible-thumping Creationist. 
 
 
> I can and will cite several examples: 
> 
>1.  The well known cases of "cargo-cultists", in which a crashed 
>    aircraft becomes a religious shrine for primitives who had not 
>    previously seen one. 
> 
>2.  The American state religion of NFL football. 
> 
>3.  Rednecks worshiping their WWF heroes. 
> 
>4.  Astronomers, members of the t.o crew etc. worshiping Carl Sagan 
>    (similar to 3). 
> 
>5.  Africans destroying former idols, and creating new ones in the image 
>    of Putt Mossman (the Evel Knieval of the 30's) after a fabulous 
>    motorcycle diver off of a waterfall (which Mossman walked away 
>    from). 
> 
>6.  Cases of primitives worshipping a volcano. 
 
     You forgot the silliest of all: 
 
 7.  Righteous fanatics who actually believe that a dead crucified man 
     was the Earthly manifestation of a Supreme Being, take the Bible 
     LITERALLY word-for-word, and basically worship the Image of Man 
     by trying to coerce and assimilate non-believers into joining their 
     blind faith in a Male European Higher Entity. 
 
 
>Two of the least large, least impressive, least assuming, inconspicuous, 
>non-candidates for deity in the entire universe today are the 
>far-off planets Jupiter and Saturn.  An overwhelming majority of people 
>in the world couldn't even find them or point them out. 
> 
>And yet, just 4000 years ago, these two planets were the two chieftain 
>gods in every nation on earth, every religion on earth...  the two most 
>feared entities in existence.  Given present realities, this not only 
>makes no sense, it is impossible. 
 
     I find it highly unlikely that EVERY single religion on Earth 4000 
     years ago worshipped Jupiter and Saturn as their chief deities. 
     Cite some examples so that I might refute them!  And no, it 
     certainly does not make any sense, but I very much doubt that it 
     is true.  Besides, what religion DOES make sense?  Surely not 
     Christianity! :^) 
 
 
>Hesiod and Ovid both speak of a golden age, when Kronos (Saturn) was 
>"king in heaven".  For those of you who haven't ever been able to fathom 
>that phrase, it means when Saturn was our sun.  That's what "king of 
>heaven" IS. 
 
     What is your basis for stating that the sun IS "king of heaven" ? 
     Does Hesiod or Ovid ever directly mention that Kronos was the sun? 
     If they do say this, how is it significant?  Religious myths are 
     hardly reliable sources of accurate scientific information! 
 
 
>Other Greek authors repeatedly refer to antediluvians as "children of 
>Kronos", or "nurselings of Kronos" (for instance, Plato's 'Statesman'), 
>meaning people of the age of Saturn. 
 
     And?  Your point is... what?  Do you have a point? 
 
 
>I have claimed that this planet once orbitted a small electromagnetic 
>star, one pole forever pointed straight at that star, animals on the 
>earth feeling gravitational pull not only of the earth, but of the star 
>as well.  Only this allowed the giant antediluvian animals. 
 
     You have yet to put forth anything to suggest that a Biblical Flood 
     ever took place, or that the Earth is as young as you claim, or that 
     this star ever could have existed.  Until then... 
 
 
>There is one other effect you'd notice.  There would be no seasons. 
> 
>You might expect Greek and Roman authors to mention that.  They do. 
 
     There is ample evidence in the fossil record that some kind of 
     seasons have always been around (layers of kunkar and sandstone, 
     for example, indicating seasonal droughts and monsoons, in 
     sediments that are many millions of years old).  It is therefore 
     not a matter of contention whether or not seasons occured in 
     prehistoric times - we know, beyond reasonable doubt, that they 
     did.  Anything written by ancient scholars or modern quacks that 
     contradicts this can be easily shown to be in error. 
 
 
>Ovid mentions Zeus (Jupiter) completing "a year of four seasons".  He 
>goes on: 
> 
>   "Then for the first time, the scorched air glowed with parching heat, 
>   and ice hung frozen by the winds..." 
> 
>According to standard theory, the familiar pattern of the seasons whould 
>have been with us since long before anything man lived on this planet. 
 
     Again, this is mythology.  Ain't worth a plugged nickel! 
     Do you think that Icarus actually flew too close to the Sun 
     on wings made of wax?  Or that this Sun was actually a flaming 
     chariot driven across the sky by Appolo?  Perhaps Saturn was a 
     a Greek chariot then, hmmmm? ;-) 
 
 
>The notion of having to EXPLAIN the recent coming into existence of the 
>ordinary cycle of the seasons is impossible given standard beliefs. 
 
     How is it impossible that someone concocted this?  Most Greek 
     myths are even more impossible than that one... 
 
                                    - GECKO 
 
 
 
    "All most of us get is 'Mind-that-bus-what-bus-SPLAT!'" 
 
                                            - Rimmer 
 
 
 
gecko@zooid.guild.org 

Newsgroups: talk.origins