HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: sscott@mcs.kent.edu (Stephen Scott)
Subject: Re: Weight Loss Diet with Running?
Organization: Kent State University
Date: Thu, 7 Jan 1993 03:35:52 GMT

We all seem to be forgetting that we runners too age and with age
generally comes a slower metabolism.  Which means that the 3 burgers
that you would burn off at the age of 17 by watching television will
now become 3 burgers that will sit on your waist at the age of 25
or more.

However, it is true that as you become a more efficient runner that
you will burn less calories during a workout.   But one would
hope that as we become more efficient we will either increase the
speed or distance to overcome that (nice) effect.

As for those of you running 100+ miles / week and still gaining
weight.  I have no idea what to do other than the common sense thing
of watch what you eat.  One interesting thing I do when attempting to
control my weight (up or down) is to log all that I eat and drink. 
It may suprise you what you put into yourself during a day.  Track
this for more than a few days, the longer the better, as anyone can
control themselves for a few days.  Another nice thing that this
provides is a log of when or why you may eat.  It is amazing how many
of us use food for some other reason.

From personal experience I can say that too low a weight, even if
close to "normal" weight, generally translates to less strength.  I
can think of no reason why it would ever translate to more strength
if you are below a "normal" runner's weight.  Note that "normal" is
always relative...  For example by health industry standards my
weight is "normal", however by my standards I need to lose 15 - 20
pounds to become competative again.  So I don't consider my present
weight to be "normal" for me.  I believe that the health industry is
in the process of rethinking what should be in the weight charts
though - revising downward.  (or have they already done this and my
book is out of date)

One could always alternate sports.  If you can't swim - just think of
the energy (calories) expended while trying to keep from sinking to
the bottom of the pool.  :)


Stephen.
		I do not claim to be a health expert -
			simply a critic -
				aren't we all though...

---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Stephen L. Scott				Phone:  216-672-4004  x215
Heterogeneous Processing Research Group		voice mail:  x466
Kent State University				Fax:    216-672-7824
Math Sciences Building				email:  sscott@mcs.kent.edu
Kent, OH  44242
From: rns@npg-sd.SanDiegoCA.NCR.COM (Rick Schubert)
Newsgroups: rec.running
Subject: Re: Weight Loss Diet with Running?
Date: 8 Jan 93 20:54:20 GMT
Organization: NCR Corp., Network Products - San Diego

In <2780@grivel.une.edu.au> tarmstro@metz.une.edu.au (tarmstro) writes:

>                                                                   I think
>it is a fine line between ideal racing weight, and losing strength. Steve
>Moneghetti went from 60kg to 56kg during the 4 day depletion phase of his
>diet before the Barcelona Olympic marathon. In hindsight (he ran poorly,
>finishing 42nd) he admits to losing to much weight.

First, one should never try to lose weight during the week before a marathon.
When I was racing marathons, the week before a marathon I would try to eat
as nutritiously as possible, avoiding all junk food and fat but eating a
lot of complex carbs, etc.  Second, any weight loss should be gradual,
both to increase your chances of keeping it off and to maintain your
strength.  Third, if he actual lost 4kg in 4 days, I imagine much of that
had to be water loss, which in itself is bad before a marathon -- he'd
go into it dehydrated (that could have been his problem).  4kg of actual
(non water) weight-loss in 4 days is 1kg per day, which is approximately
7700 kcals.  To have a deficit of 7700 kcals/day, he'd have to either be
running a lot (at 60kg, he'd have to run >77 miles/day) or be starving
himself.

-- Rick Schubert (rick.schubert@SanDiegoCA.NCR.COM)
From: wlange@eis.calstate.edu (Walter C. Lange)
Newsgroups: rec.running
Subject: Re: Age group records for the mile?
Date: 10 Jan 93 16:40:20 GMT
Organization: Calif State Univ/Electronic Information Services

Thomas.C.Pinckney@williams.edu (Coty Pinckney) writes:
> 	Could someone post the mile records for boys and girls of various
> ages?  My 9 year old daughter yesterday ran 7:26; I know that is good, 
> since the 85th percentile (the required standard for receiving the 
> President's Council on Physical Fitness award) is about 9:30, but I'm
> curious to know what the record for her age group is.
> 
> 	Please, no flames about pushing young kids too hard.  She has
> never run more than 2.5 miles in a day, nor more than 5 miles in a week.
> 
> 	Thanks.
> 
> 	Coty Pinckney			Thomas.C.Pinckney@williams.edu
Newsgroups: rec.running
From: stgprao@st.unocal.COM (Richard Ottolini)
Subject: Re: Using weights on runs
Organization: Unocal Corporation
Date: Mon, 11 Jan 1993 16:20:17 GMT

In article <1993Jan09.014221.41016@watson.ibm.com> dvfreese@freese.aix.kingston.ibm.com (Doug Freese) writes:
>In article <8JAN199315000684@vax2.concordia.ca> wes@vax2.concordia.ca (Wes Schyngera) writes:
>>How good of an idea is it to use small hand weights on runs? Would
>>they not be good for speed training? After all, swimmers use similar            strategies to make them go faster on race days. Anyone out there
>>use this technique?
>NO NO and NO! The act of running all by its lonesome puts enough stress 
>on your joints, specifically the knees.  This will only lead to        
>big time problems. The last person I knew that ran with weights
>wore all the cartilege from his knees and can't run a step.  

Most of the people I see using hand weights are those hyper types who try to do too much too soon
and damage themselves, e.g. people trying to satisfy their New Year's resolutions.
This might explain why many such people get injured, but not damn the method per se.
From: siddarth@cs.utexas.edu (Siddarth Subramanian)
Newsgroups: rec.running
Subject: Re: Running on consecutive days
Date: 8 Jan 1993 09:41:12 -0600
Organization: CS Dept, University of Texas at Austin
Distribution: usa
NNTP-Posting-Host: thunderbird.cs.utexas.edu

In article <1993Jan8.131724.17875@crd.ge.com> berkery@emmax5crd.ge.com (jack berkery) writes:
>> The reason why I ask is because I've been running every other day for about
>> 3 months now, and I am up to about 3.5 miles each time, with a small
>> increase each week.
>
>You are doing it right. This is rare, most people try to boost mileage
>in a crash program which leads to the chronic injuries which you hear
>them moaning about on the net every day. Stick with this basic plan, SMALL
>INCREASES EACH WEEK, and you'll never go wrong.

One thing I'd like to add to this is that you should try varying your
distances -i.e., instead of 3.5 miles every run, you could try doing
one or two 4 or 5 milers and then sticking in some 1 or 2 milers in
between. When you make the transition to running 4, 5 or 6 times a
week you should alternate longer and shorter distances, perhaps doing
your longest distance just once a week. 

As Jack points out, it's a bad idea to run every day. However, most
people don't have problems running 4-5 days a week.

-- 

Siddarth Subramanian          INTERNET: siddarth@cs.utexas.edu
Austin, Texas                 UUCP:     uunet!cs.utexas.edu!siddarth
Newsgroups: rec.running
From: page@ficus.cs.ucla.edu (Thomas Page)
Subject: Re: Getting Old
Organization: UCLA Computer Science Department
Date: Fri, 8 Jan 93 01:08:15 GMT

theisen@iowa.physics.uiowa.edu writes:
	  At what age will my body start falling apart?
	  (this is assuming i maintain a good level of fitness until i die)
 

You should read Noakes book "Lore of Running" for a good presentation on this
subject.  The standard answer is about 1% per year (or 10% per decade) loss
in performance after age 35.

However, recent research suggests that the data that led to the above rate was
flawed because the older runners seldom train as hard as younger runners, for
reasons that have more to do with getting married, having kids, having a career,
having other interests, burning out, etc., than with aging itself.  The recent
research suggests that performance at all distances (100m to ultra marathons)
falls off at less than half this rate if you train equally hard.

Another piece of data.  It is claimed that one turns in ones best performances
about 10 years after starting serious running, regardless of what age you start.
That means, if you sum the curves of increasing ability due to training, and
decreasing ability due to age, the resulting curve starts to turn downward
about 10 years after you start, whether you start training at 16 or 60.
That assumes you stay with it 10 years.

-- 
-----------------------------		-------------------------------
Thomas W. Page, Jr.			email:   page@ficus.cs.ucla.edu
3531 Boelter Hall			day:     310 206-8696
Department of Computer Science		evening: 310 398-1830
University of California
Los Angeles, 90024-1596
Newsgroups: rec.running
From: m23364@mwunix (James Meritt)
Subject: Re: Clinton mediocre runner?
Organization: MITRE Corporation, McLean VA
Date: Tue, 5 Jan 1993 14:59:30 GMT

In article <103563@netnews.upenn.edu> sagnella@a.chem.upenn.edu (Diane E. Sagnella) writes:
}In article <1992Dec22.200751.19529@linus.mitre.org> m23364@mwunix (James Meritt) writes:
}>In article <102976@netnews.upenn.edu> sagnella@a.chem.upenn.edu (Diane E. Sagnella) writes:
}>}In article <1992Dec22.134618.4405@linus.mitre.org> m23364@mwunix (James Meritt) writes:
}>}>How great do you expect someone to get, who jogs to McDonalds?
}>}
}>}When you start judging someone by their speed, you take away from 
}>
}>Wait one.  _I_ didn't mention speed...
}
}When you comment on how 'great' someone is, you are considering their speed.
}One does not have to mention something explicitly to be talking about it.

Perhaps you don't understand.  When a sentence starts off with "how" and ends
with a "?", it is called a "question".  When you go from my question to
your evaluation of "speed", that is called "streaching it".

}>}How dare anyone put someone down because they think they
}>}don't run fast enough!  We as runners should support other
}>}runners in their endeavors not ridicule them because they
}>}don't live up to our standards!
}>
}>How dare you try to "shout down" someone because of what YOU think, and not what 
}>THEY do.  You harp on things (speed, fast enough...,) that I never even mentioned.
}
}  Hey you gave your opinion, why is it such a big deal that I gave mine
}in rebuttal?  Because I was adamant?  I was not yelling at your voicing
}your opinion but in what you said (and others like you).
}It appears, however, that you feel that one can voice their ideas, 
}but only if it's done quietly.  That's ridiculous.

Rah rah rah.  I am amused by your belief that "How...?" is "voicing an opinion".
I suspect political, rather than grammatical or athletic, positions are
more relevant to your statements.

Newsgroups: rec.running
From: stgprao@st.unocal.COM (Richard Ottolini)
Subject: Re: Running on consecutive days
Organization: Unocal Corporation
Distribution: usa
Date: Fri, 8 Jan 1993 17:27:11 GMT

I find daily running to become a habit.  I get nervous if I have to take a rest day too soon.

However, I am a strong advocate of at least one rest day a week.  Many running books suggest
taking every seventh day off, coordinating a running schedule with a work schedule.  Over a period
of twenty years I've gradually increased the frequency of rest days from one every two weeks to
one every five days.  This is mainly due to listening to the body for sign of over fatigue.
Another advantage of a non-seven day cycle is scheduling some activity on the rest day that
might interfere with running such a long travel day or a backpack.
From: rns@npg-sd.SanDiegoCA.NCR.COM (Rick Schubert)
Newsgroups: rec.running
Subject: Re: Running on consecutive days
Date: 8 Jan 93 21:11:18 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: NCR Corp., Network Products - San Diego

In <1993Jan8.131724.17875@crd.ge.com> berkery@emmax5crd.ge.com (jack berkery) writes:


>> From: samari@watnxt2.ucr.edu (Tammy Woodley)
>> ...
>> I am curious about the effects of running on consecutive days.  I figure
>> that it probably depends on how far and hard you run, but what are the best  
>> combinations?   

>Read the attached article below originally posted last August.

>           So it would seem that if you want to increase mileage more
>safely it's better to increase the length of each run instead of the number
>of runs per week.

It may be that it's safer to run fewer days per week, but that doesn't
necessarily mean that that's the way to achieve your optimum performance.
Unless you cross-train, I don't think you can improve much past a very
basic level by running just every other day.  Unless you're very prone
to injury, I think a casual racer needs to run 4 (maybe 5) days a week
and a somewhat serious runner 5-6 days a week.  I also believe in days
off, and, except on a few occasions, I've never run more than 6 consecutive
days.  Anyone running more than 2 consecutive days needs to have some
sort of hard/easy schedule, though.

-- Rick Schubert (rick.schubert@SanDiegoCA.NCR.COM)
Newsgroups: rec.running
From: tomc@modcomp.uucp (Tom Cianflone)
Subject: Shoes with best shock absorption?
Organization: MODCOMP, an AEG company
Date: Wed, 6 Jan 1993 18:45:52 GMT

I'm looking to get back into running after being away from it for a
while. I have a mild disk herniation in my lower back for
about 3 years now. I've been off the running since the injury
occurred. I've been getting aerobic exercise via my stair-climber, but
often long to just strap on a pair of shoes and hit the road.

Right about now I feel that maybe I could handle short runs (2 - 3
miles), using them as an alternative to the stair-climber maybe once
or twice a week. Shock absorption is the key for me to prevent
irritation to my lower back. Are there any shoes that are known to be
best for shock absorption? Also, anyone out there running successfully
with a known lower back disk herniation?

Thanks in advance for any help you can offer. email or post is ok by
me, but if you keep it to email, I'll post a summary.
--
Regards, Tom Cianflone
<uunet!modcomp!tomc> -or- <tomc@modcomp.com>
Newsgroups: rec.running
From: siddarth@cs.utexas.edu (Siddarth Subramanian)
Newsgroups: rec.running
Subject: Re: Weight Loss Diet with Running?
Date: 6 Jan 1993 10:54:00 -0600
Organization: CS Dept, University of Texas at Austin
NNTP-Posting-Host: thunderbird.cs.utexas.edu

In article <1993Jan6.164704.17633@unocal.com> stgprao@st.unocal.COM (Richard Ottolini) writes:
>In article <1993Jan5.163001.15429@spectrum.xerox.com> houston@eso.mc.xerox.com writes:

>>Keep it up Stephan--it's the way to lose weight and eat and drink anything you darn well please (within reason)...  
>
>Well be prepared for the 5-10 year "surprise".  With time one's metabolism can become very
>efficient at a given task.  The first five years it was easy to keep weight off.  Afterwards
>I had to watch my diet again.  The standard metabolic rate for running is given as .75 kcal
>per pound per mile.  I've estimated my rate at about .5 kcal after 16 years of running.


You may not have to wait that long - I found myself gaining weight
despite doing 50+ miles a week about a year after I'd started. :-(



-- 

Siddarth Subramanian          INTERNET: siddarth@cs.utexas.edu
Austin, Texas                 UUCP:     uunet!cs.utexas.edu!siddarth
Newsgroups: rec.running
From: kyle@cgsvax.claremont.edu
Subject: Re: Running groups/trails in Davis?
Organization: The Claremont Graduate School
Distribution: ca
Date: 7 Jan 93 12:40:44 PST

In article <20771@ucdavis.ucdavis.edu>, fzsaler@othello.ucdavis.edu (Michael T. Saler) writes:
> 
>  I have recently moved to Davis, and was wondering if there
> were any running groups in the area, as well as good
> trails or places to run.
> 
> Thanks,
> Mike

I was up at ucdavis about 4 weeks ago.  I got in my running on the 
loop that surrounds Putah creek in the middle of the campus.  I very 
scenic route with hill and soft asphalt and some dirt for the most 
part.  The only bad part of the trail is when it gets too close to the 
water which is stagnant and smells horrible.  There were plenty of 
runners on the trail, so you might be able to talk to them about any 
groups.

Also, does anybody at UCDAVIS know the distance of the loop.  I'm 
guessing from my time that it is around 3 miles, but I'm not sure if 
I'm even close because I'm not used to air you can't see.

 Kyle Kane Stephens            __o           O
 internet:                   _`\<,_  |\o    /|\/
 kyle@cgsvax.claremont.edu  (*)/ (*) |/|    \|
 bitnet:                             | /   \/ \
 kyle@clargrad                       |/|      /
 -----------------------------       |
From: paul@panix.com (Paul Gatker)
Newsgroups: rec.running
Subject: Re: Ankle Sprains
Date: 4 Jan 93 20:30:31 GMT
Organization: PANIX Public Access Unix, NYC

In <1993Jan4.150931.26136@lpi.liant.com> joes@lpi.liant.com (Joe Stewart) writes:

>Two questions:

>   a.  How to prevent them?

 Don't run on areas where hidden objects could flip your foot. Your injury
in the dark cannot be avoided if you can't see where your stepping.

 I've had several ankle injuries and now take much greater precautions. Watch
out for leaves covering rocks, roots, holes. Ankle stretching helps abit but
a violent twist will still cause serious injury.

 Shoes with wider soles/heels are more stable than other types.

 Running when tired makes one more susceptible to twists.


>   b.  What to do when you get them?

>Oh yes, the swelling has come down a bit and the ugly, blue bruise has begun
>to show up.  I can see the blue best on the inside of the ankle, though the
>discoleration has spread to the top and outside of the ankle.

 If your foot is stuck in a comfortable but unnatural position I would 
recommend seeing an orthopedist. The degree of bruising makes me reminisce
about a sprain I got on a chunk of ice in the road. My ankle swelled up to
the aprox size of a small baseball or large golf ball, almost
immediately. I didn't use the ice I stepped on, but a nearby piece to ice
it up on the spot.

 After 3 days of hoping it would get better I got tired of all my friends
telling me I better go see a doctor-- so I did. (I got used to gingerly 
hopping around so I entered the office with a lot of energy). The doctor 
took the x-rays, told me I had no breaks, just tendon/ligament damage (the
bruising up the side of my calf), and proceeded to force my ankle back into
a normal position (instep aprox 90deg to shin). He told me to hold this     
position while he wrapped my foot in a cast. It was fairly painful but I
figured I only had to hold it for a few more moments. When he told me I
could relax, I was a bit suprised to find that I couldn't as the cast prevent-
ed me from returning to my non-painful position.

 Remember how I hopped into the office? Well, getting out was another story.
Ten pounds of new mass on one side of my body (happily I forget which side),
and new crutches, while cringing in pain, the other patients in various 
stages of broken-ness, probably had a bit of catharsis-like glee in seeing
me, practically careen out through the waiting room. I came in through the
waiting room in aprox 15 secs; to took me aprox 3 minutes to get out!

 This is not to scare you or deter you from seeing the doctor. Your injury
is probably not as bad as this, but if you do have to go, at least you will
be a bit more mentally prepared than I was.

-- 
*******************************************************************
paul@panix.com                                    COMPULITE GRAPHICS
Brooklyn NY usa                                Design & Consultation
********************************************************************
Newsgroups: rec.running
Subject: Charlotte 10k
From: tad@cerc.wvu.wvnet.edu (Tad Davis)
Date: Mon, 11 Jan 1993 18:40:45 GMT
Organization: Concurrent Engineering Research Center


Conditions were low to mid 40's with light rain to no rain.

Times are from memory, but they should be pretty close.

Women's Open

1. Kristy Johnston (OR)	33:23
2. Gwyn Coogan (CO)	33:46
3. (East European?)	34:36

Francie L-Smith was 5th or 6th, kinda slow, over 35:00 (she was low
33s last year tuning up for the Oly Trials).  Margaret Groos was about
8th.  The depth was terrible this year, 2:20 separating 1st to 10th.


Men's Open

 1. Ashley Johnson (TN)		29:01
 2. Peter Sherry (DC)		29:02
 3. Risto Ulmala (Fin)		29:04
 4. Mark Coogan (CO)		29:09
 5. John Treacy (Ire)		29:16
 6. Bob Henes (NC)		29:17
 7. Paul Aufdemberge (MI)	29:17
 8. Terry Croyle (WV)		29:19
 9. Steve Kartalia (NC?)	29:19
10. Scott Dvorak (NC)		29:21

Apparently it came down to the very end.  The finish is inside the
convention center, so you make a sharp (90) right with only 30-40
yards to the finish, there were elbows flying between Johnson and
Sherry and a protest was filed against Ashley Johnson (now a U.S.
citizen), upheld, then his appeal which was upheld and overturned the
protest, so the results stood.

Another interesting piece of news, Steve Spence is now running for
Nike.  He was at the race since his wife was running, he didn't run.



-- 
Tad Davis
Concurrent Engineering Research Center
From: sandrock@aries.scs.uiuc.edu (Mark Sandrock)
Newsgroups: rec.running
Subject: Re: The Self Coached Runner
Date: 7 Jan 93 17:29:58 GMT
Distribution: na
Organization: University of Illinois at Urbana

chaz@meaddata.com (Chuck Sedlacko) writes:

>  Recently, I've been looking over a book entitled "The Self-Coached Runner"
>by Allan Lawrence and Mark Scheid. ...

> "You are ready to train for a 45-minute 10K if you can run:
>    220 yards in 38 seconds
>    440 yards in 82 seconds
>    1 mile in 6 minutes 20 seconds
> To run 10K in 45 minutes you need to average 7:16 per mile."

>If I could run at a 7:16 pace, why do I need to meet these other criteria?

Because if you cannot manage to run a mile in 6:20 you probably aren't
realistically capable of running a 45:00 10K with just 12 weeks training
(or whatever their schedules work out to). I find the Lawrence & Scheid
guidelines to be fairly appropriate. I'm not enamored of their schedules,
but that's perhaps just a personal preference.

Mark Sandrock
-- 
Univ of Illinois at Urbana-Champaign	  'The measure of mental health
Chemical Sciences Computing Services	  is the disposition to find good
505 S. Mathews Ave./Urbana, IL 61801	  everywhere.'
Email: sandrock@aries.scs.uiuc.edu		       -RWE
Newsgroups: rec.running
From: jmk@cbnews.cb.att.com (joseph.m.knapp)
Subject: Re: Using weights on runs
Organization: AT&T
Date: Tue, 12 Jan 1993 15:15:04 GMT

dvfreese@freese.aix.kingston.ibm.com (Doug Freese) writes:
>                           I ran with my Podiatrist tonight and he 
>reiterated the same caution.  Galloway, on pg 244, says you burn extra         
>calories but be careful it will put extra pressure on your joints, 
>ligaments, tendons etc. especially if you overpronate.            

Not a weight user, but consider this: if using hand weights causes more
calories to be consumed, then you can walk or run more slowly and get
the same level of workout. Ergo, less stress. No? Maybe the people who
get injured are the ones who try to match their weight-less times and
break down. Just a thought, no experience to back it up. 

---
Joe Knapp   jmk@cbvox.att.com
From: Thomas.C.Pinckney@williams.edu (Coty Pinckney)
Newsgroups: rec.running
Subject: Age group records for the mile?
Date: 8 Jan 1993 08:54:33 -0600
Organization: UTexas Mail-to-News Gateway
NNTP-Posting-Host: cs.utexas.edu

	Could someone post the mile records for boys and girls of various
ages?  My 9 year old daughter yesterday ran 7:26; I know that is good, 
since the 85th percentile (the required standard for receiving the 
President's Council on Physical Fitness award) is about 9:30, but I'm
curious to know what the record for her age group is.

	Please, no flames about pushing young kids too hard.  She has
never run more than 2.5 miles in a day, nor more than 5 miles in a week.

	Thanks.

	Coty Pinckney			Thomas.C.Pinckney@williams.edu
Newsgroups: rec.running