HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: ryanm@milton.u.washington.edu (Ryan Mcneilly)
Subject: Question on operating procedures...
Organization: University of Washington
Date: Sat, 5 Sep 1992 23:37:33 GMT



I have been stumped as to the answer to the following operating procedure 
question.  The specific section in question is the D&RG branch between Durango 
and Silverton Colorado.  The time frame is 1910 to 1920 with the average 
freight locomotive pulling an average of 16K lbs tractive effort.  Maximum 
grade north bound to Silverton is 2.5% and no positive grade south bound to 
Durango.  The distance between Durango and Silverton is 45 miles.

Here is the question: 
The info that I have states that 2 double-headed freights leave Durango for 
Silverton in a day, how are the helpers handled after arriving at Silverton 
when it is time to return to Durango?

I have a couple of ideas but they don't answer the question well enough.
    1) The first helper remains at Silverton to provide the switch job since 
    there were no real engine facilities to support a locomotive.  The second 
    helper would either return light or become a second section (dividing the 
    returning ore cars into 3 sections) for the return run.  This doesn't 
    explain the switch jobs return movement to Durango.
    
    2) Each helper would return with their respective train to Durango.  
    However this contradicts the idea that it is cheaper to move a locomotive 
    light than as a helper down grade.  This doesn't seem very likely.
    
    3) Both helpers return light to Durango.  This also has a problem, the 
    distance is 45 miles and could cause a problem with scheduling meets amoung 
    the few (4 or 5) sidings along the way with extras and Mixed trains.

Here is some back ground on the situation:
About this time the mines were (actually 1900 to 1905) the mine produced more 
ore than a single train could haul.  Silverton never had anything more than a 
small coaling facility and a water tower more than a mile away.  The sidings 
mandated reasonable train length plus the yard capacity was small.

I am not interested in exact operating procedures for this specific branch 
(would be nice) but rather reasonable general operating procedure.  I hope 
someone out there has an answer tho this question, also hope it is enough 
info.  Please send all replies to my email address and I may do a summary for 
the news group.  Thanks!  --Ryan


==========================================================================
  Ryan McNeilly 

  Internet: ryanm@u.washington.edu
==========================================================================
From: rnewman@bbn.com (Ron Newman)
Newsgroups: rec.railroad
Subject: Charlie on the T (was Re: Amtrack from Boston to Portland, ME)
Date: 9 Sep 1992 22:48:20 GMT
Organization: Bolt, Beranek & Newman, Inc.
Distribution: world
NNTP-Posting-Host: spcsun25.bbn.com
Keywords: history, transit, Boston, USA

In article <1992Sep9.212401.20156@ryn.mro4.dec.com>, pierson@empror.enet.dec.com (dave pierson) writes:
|> In article <lasf59INN7ln@news.bbn.com>, rnewman@bbn.com (Ron Newman) writes...
 
|> >The song is called "Charlie on the MTA".   Look for it on a 
|> >Kingston Trio album.   About 10 years ago, the fare system on
|> >the T was changed so that you don't need to pay to get off anywhere,
|> >except the Quincy Adams and Braintree stations on the Red Line.
|> 
|> 	Nope.  By about two decades.  Note the reference to _MTA_.  Charlie has
|> 	been down there since the mid '50's.  Someone else can supply the fare
|> 	change, but thats when the song dates to.  Quincy/Adams & Braintree may
|> 	still have had (all rise) NYNH&H RR (you may be seated) (8)>>) service
|> 	when Charlie started his trip.

I think I got misinterpreted here.   The song dates from the 50's, if
not earlier.  (It was originally written as a campaign song for
a candidate for mayor of Boston.)   The situation it describes,
needing to pay to get off a Green Line train, was eliminated 
about 10 years ago.

-- 
Ron Newman		rnewman@bbn.com
From: wbrill@hpfcso.FC.HP.COM (Warren Brill)
Date: Fri, 11 Sep 1992 14:18:48 GMT
Subject: Re: SD70, Railfans & Spies
Organization: Hewlett-Packard, Fort Collins, CO, USA
Newsgroups: rec.railroad

In rec.railroad, bob@1776.COM (Robert Coe) writes:

> schumann@msus1.msus.edu writes:
> > There's an interesting article in _The Wall Street Journal_ for 
> > Wednesday, August 12, 1992, on page B6.  ...
> 
> [Description of incident in which a "railfan" from GE's locomotive works is
>  caught "ogling" the prototypes of GM's new loco in a railyard in Ontario.]
> 
> Well, the incident is funny in its own right, but let's not overlook the un-
> derlying message: it may speak well for the future of railroading if building 
> locomotives is still profitable enough to justify industrial espionage.  :^)
> 
>    ___            _                                           -  Bob
>    /__) _   /    / ) _   _
> (_/__) (_)_(_)  (___(_)_(/_______________________________________ bob@1776.COM
> Robert K. Coe ** 14 Churchill St, Sudbury, Massachusetts 01776 ** 508-443-3265

I would say it also bodes well that GM is still developing "new" systems,
even if they've been out on a few recent (not prototype) models.  R&D repre-
sents a committment to the future of whatever product is being built, and
since diesel road locomotives aren't cheap, I would submit that developing
functional prototypes for them (at GM expense) probably isn't cheap either.
If GE was spying [which since I don't know any more details than I read in
the original posting on this thread], they may just want to skip spending
the $.  BTW, they may actually be looking for something entirely different
from the brake systems...I work in the workstation business [computers], and
there's LOTS of attempted espionage in our business.  Just knowing the release
date of a new workstation product can put the competition on a faster track
to build a Me-Too.
Along with this talk of competition in the engine business, I've noticed a
new enthusiasm for track maintenance here with the UP & BN.  Could this mean
that the RRs are finally making money? :-) :-) NOT a joke, but a REAL smiley.

 
oooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo
o                                          i---i_________________      o
o    Warren T. Brill, a.k.a.          *----|[|]|  #### #### #### |*    o
o    wbrill@hpxxx.fc.hp.com         i_|___/|___|\________________|_i   o
o    wbrill@hpfcso.fc.hp.com       =++()=()=() `========' ()=()=()++=  o
o                                  =================================== o
oooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo
From: brennan@cunixf.cc.columbia.edu (Joseph Brennan)
Newsgroups: rec.railroad
Subject: Re: Amtrak Stations
Date: 15 Sep 92 17:54:30 GMT
Reply-To: brennan@cunixf.cc.columbia.edu (Joseph Brennan)
Organization: Columbia University

In article <1992Sep14.190545.15306@s1.gov> lip@s1.gov (Loren I.
Petrich) writes:

>	How crowded is Penn Station nowadays? With Amtrak to DC,
>upstate NY, and Boston and PATH and NJ Transit and the LIRR all
>converging on that spot, it must have a Tartarus of a lot of train
>traffic. Has it reached capacity yet?

I was just there Saturday morning.  It is quite crowded.  After some
renovation to the main concourse, it's still not large enough nor well
designed.  The waiting room still isn't limited to ticketed
passengers, the departure announcement boards aren't visible from the
waiting room, and the tracks STILL aren't announced until the last
minute*.  I'm much happier when I travel from Grand Central.

Penn has about 21 tracks on one level.  There are two passenger
concourse levels; the main one has shops in the east half (7th Ave
side) and waiting areas for Amtrak and NJ Transit on the west half
(8th Ave side).  The lower concourse has an arrivals area near 8th Ave
and a Long Island R R area along the north half (33d St).

The LIRR area is being renovated again.  The concourse will expand in
some way under 33d St and the building to the north; this is in the NE
corner where the LIRR ticket office and main LIRR waiting area is.

The crunch is on passenger space, although the track space is near
capacity too.  I don't know what they will do about track usage; NJT
needs much more space and could use another tunnel and terminal, which
I don't see coming.

> While we're on the
>subject of NYC train stations, is Grand Central Terminal at capacity
>with the Metro-North trains stopping there?

No, but it is very busy.  Limiting MN to the upper level and giving
the lower to LIRR service via 63d St seems workable to me.  GCT has an
enormous amount of station tracks, far more than Penn, and the real
limit is the 4-track approach line and the need to cross train paths
at the throat (note how the sometimes-proposed LIRR use would have a
separate approach line).  Of course the stub terminal plan requires
more tracks than Penn's through-track plan also; I gloss over the few
stub tracks in Penn and the few tracks in GCT that loop back, as that
about cancels out.

--Joe Brennan


* It is traditional, back to Pennsylvania Railroad days, not to
announce tracks until about 5 to 10 minutes before departure time.  As
the Amtrak/NJT area is about 17 tracks wide, passengers have to guess,
position themselves, and run like hell as soon as the track appears on
the board.  I knew someone who worked in the station and he swore the
station staff have no idea what track a train will be on; dispatchers
elsewhere determine it.  Anyway, this is great fun if you have
impedimenta like luggage and small children and have hopes of sitting
together.  I don't know why they do it this way.  At GCT you see the
track about a half hour ahead and can at least stand near the gate, if
not actually board.
From: sysop@gallery.UUCP (John Powers)
Newsgroups: rec.railroad
Subject: Re: Anybody how Metrolink is coming along?
Keywords: metrolink
Date: 13 Sep 92 02:25:38
Distribution: na
Summary: Sure
Organization: Night Gallery BBS Est. 1985 - OS9 L2 StG (818) 448-8529


In a previous message, "gurd@next04wor.wam.umd.edu" writes:

> Does anybody in Southern California know how Metrolink is coming along.
> Last I heard the first line (from Moorpark I believe) was getting ready to 
> roll before years end.  I would imagine Metrolink would be incredibly 
> successful, with only the severe lack of parking and limited schedules  
> holding it back.  Anyway, I've heard some transit planners claim Metroling  
> will turn LAUPT into another Grand Central?

 The lines themselves are coming along quite nicely with a good portion of
them opening in late October.

 You missed one other thing that might hold Metrolink back....

 Cost.

 It will cost me six bucks one way to ride this thing for about 18 miles and
then I would have to walk two miles to work.

 (and they wonder why Californians won't give up their cars....)

                          - John
From: ggg9y@poe.acc.Virginia.EDU (Garth G. Groff)
Newsgroups: rec.railroad
Subject: Re: Viewpoints on what is history
Date: 4 Sep 92 20:44:15 GMT
Organization: University of Virginia

MORE ON DIESELS

It is both sad, and a little bit fun, to reminiss about
what we missed.  I started shooting pictures when I was
about 12, about 1963 or so.  In those days I rarely 
would point my camera at a diesel, instead saving most 
of my film for steam.  I blew off a lot of exposures on
steam engines in parks, most of which are still there.
The diesels I turned my nose up at are mostly long gone.
I am not sure that I have improved any.  Now I shoot lots
of diesels, if I happen on them, but rarely will go out of
my way for anything new.  I spend my film on what's left
of the engines I avoided 30 years ago.  Oh, well.  Someday
when I'm old an grey, I'll probably regret not shooting
many SD-60s.  Anyway, I am really glad there are groups 
like the Feather River Rail Society which are making an 
effort to save as many examples of older diesels as their
tracks can hold.  (A tenant club has one steamer, but it's
been on loan to the V&T for quite a while).  
~S
--
Garth (Haridas) Groff
"Not yet famous author"
ggg9y@poe.acc.virginia.EDU         Chant "Govinda Bohlo Hare"
From: roma@ux1.cso.uiuc.edu (Jon Roma)
Newsgroups: rec.railroad
Subject: Re: Santa Fe #3751
Date: 9 Sep 92 04:29:36 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: University of Illinois at Urbana-Champaign

>>>I'm looking for information on the Santa Fe #3751 trip to Chicago.
>>>It should be arriving on Sept. 9    

>>>Anyone have schedule information as to; Times, Towns, and Places it will pass
>>>thru in and out of Chicago, and where it will be kept overnight?

This is probably too late to reach most people, but for whatever it's worth,
the schedule I've seen is as follows:

	Wed., September 9

	lv. Ft. Madison		0800
	ar. Chillicothe		1100
	lv. Chillicothe		1145
	ar. Chicago (Corwith)	1515

	Thurs., September 10

	lv. Chicago (Corwith) 	0800
	ar. Chillicothe		1100
	lv. Chillicothe		1145
	ar. Ft. Madison		1515

My understanding is that the #3751 will stay at Corwith overnight.
-- 
Jon Roma
Computing and Communications Services Office,
University of Illinois at Urbana-Champaign
Internet:  roma@uiuc.edu      	UUCP:      uunet!uiucuxc!uiuc.edu!roma
Newsgroups: rec.railroad
From: wadams@ece.cmu.edu (William Adams)
Subject: MS,LA railroad
Originator: wadams@spitz.ECE.CMU.EDU
Keywords: history
Organization: Electrical and Computer Engineering, Carnegie Mellon
Distribution: usa
Date: Mon, 14 Sep 1992 21:42:54 GMT



Back around 1840, a group of retired military engineers helped to construct 
a railroad between Francisville, Misssissippi and Woodville, Louisiana.  This
railroad was probably used to haul Mississippi cotton down to the Mississippi
River.

Among these engineers was a great uncle of mine, Major John N. Dillahunty.

If anyone knows ANYTHING about this railroad, I would greatly appreciate hearing
from you.

	Bill Adams, CMU
From: Mark Klayum
Newsgroups: rec.railroad
Subject: Re: Santa Fe #3751
Date: 8 Sep 92 21:35:36 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: Fermilab


>>I'm looking for information on the Santa Fe #3751 trip to Chicago.
>>It should be arriving on Sept. 9    
>>
>>Anyone have schedule information as to; Times, Towns, and Places it will pass
>>thru in and out of Chicago, and where it will be kept overnight?
>
>Someone posted an 800 number a while back where you can get the whole schedule
>plus daily updates.  Would someone mind posting that number again ?  Thanx.
>   Internet: preiser@cancer.unm.edu          So, who's dream is this, anyway?
>   Bitnet:   preiser@unmb
>

Phone number for info and daily updates is; 1-800-477-3751.

- Mark Klayum
- Fermilab
Newsgroups: rec.railroad
Subject: Re: Pipe Dreams
From: bob@1776.COM (Robert Coe)
Date: Tue, 08 Sep 92 22:49:39 EDT
Distribution: na
Organization: 1776 Enterprises, Sudbury MA

gurd@next04wor.wam.umd.edu (Daffy Duck) writes:
>      Doesn't anybody get tired of people spending valuable dollars on  
> studying potential rail projects that will NEVER happen.  A 200 mile rail  
> network in Vermont is a pipe dream!  A TGV train from Chicago to the Twin  
> Cities is a pipe dream.  TGV trains between Philadelphia and Pittsburgh is  
> a pipe dream.  

You forgot the one in Texas.  That's a pipe dream too.

   ___            _                                           -  Bob
   /__) _   /    / ) _   _
(_/__) (_)_(_)  (___(_)_(/_______________________________________ bob@1776.COM
Robert K. Coe ** 14 Churchill St, Sudbury, Massachusetts 01776 ** 508-443-3265
Newsgroups: rec.railroad
From: jdavis@wizard.etsu.edu (Jason Davis)
Subject: Re: Need address for the "Friends of the Cumbers & Toltec"
Summary: Rotary Snow Plow operation on C&TS. 
Keywords: Rotary 
Reply-To: jdavis@wizard.etsu.edu (Jason Davis)
Organization: East Texas State University, Commerce, TX
Date: Tue, 15 Sep 1992 04:22:40 GMT

In article <2426@devnull.mpd.tandem.com> bruceb@mpd.tandem.com (Bruce Burden) writes:
>
>
>
>
>	Hi. Would some kind net.person either post or mail me the
>     address for the Friends of the Cumbres & Toltec RR? 
>
>	Also, can anybody make an informed statement as to whether
>     the rotarys will open Cumbres Pass in '93?
>
>							Thanks,
>							   Bruce
>


I asked a similar question of one of the C&TS employees a couple of months ago
while on vacation and got an answer (explanation?) for your second question.
The C&TS has two steam powered rotary snow plows, however, only one is currently
functional.  Whether or not the rotary is used depends on the amount of snowfall
on the pass.  Last season the rotary was not used because it was not needed.
The year before last the snow was deep enough for it to be used.  He said that
they would be prepared to use the rotary in the event that it is needed this
season.   Hope this helps.  :-)



   /|  Jason Lee Davis                        <jdavis@wizard.etsu.edu>  |\
||/_|  Shiloh Productions sound co. ____      <s2903d@etsuv2.etsu.edu>  |_\||
||\ |  Rt. 1  Box 175              (_ |_)     <s2903d@etsuvax2.bitnet>  | /||
   \|  Klondike, Texas 75448 ________)| _____ (903) 886-2903            |/
Newsgroups: rec.railroad
From: ehr@ecsvax.uncecs.edu (Ernest H. Robl)
Subject: Re: Via
Summary: article pointer
Organization: UNC Educational Computing Service
Date: Fri, 11 Sep 1992 00:27:24 GMT



The current (Sept.) issue of _Travel & Leisure_ has a fairly long 
illustrated article on VIA and the "Canadian."

--Ernest
-- 

"My other computer is a Nikon N8008." -- Ernest H. Robl
Ernest H. Robl (ehr@ecsvax)  Durham, NC, USA   +1  919   286-3845
                                         FAX:  +1  919   286-1696
Newsgroups: rec.railroad
From: wdjohnso@iastate.edu (Whitney D Johnson)
Subject: Re: Amtrak Stations
Organization: Iowa State University, Ames, IA
Date: Tue, 15 Sep 1992 17:20:33 GMT
From: gurd@next04wor.wam.umd.edu (Daffy Duck)
Newsgroups: rec.railroad
Subject: Anybody how Metrolink is coming along?
Date: 12 Sep 92 16:20:29 GMT
Reply-To: gurd@wam.umd.edu

Does anybody in Southern California know how Metrolink is coming along.
Last I heard the first line (from Moorpark I believe) was getting ready to 
roll before years end.  I would imagine Metrolink would be incredibly 
successful, with only the severe lack of parking and limited schedules  
holding it back.  Anyway, I've heard some transit planners claim Metroling  
will turn LAUPT into another Grand Central?
Newsgroups: rec.railroad
Subject: Re: Texas TGV (was re: Pipe Dreams)
From: bob@1776.COM (Robert Coe)
Date: Thu, 10 Sep 92 23:13:56 EDT
Distribution: na
Organization: 1776 Enterprises, Sudbury MA
Comments: George Bush's re-election is yet another pipe dream.

adrian@ntmtv.UUCP (Adrian Brandt) writes:
> In article <gDcTqB1w165w@1776.COM>, bob@1776.COM (Robert Coe) writes:
> |> You forgot the [TGV] in Texas.  That's a pipe dream too.
> 
> Why is Texas TGV a pipe dream?  I thought it was still a "go"...
> Does anyone have any up-to-date info or comments on this project?

I'll believe it when I see it and (only then) confess myself an ass.

   ___            _                                           -  Bob
   /__) _   /    / ) _   _
(_/__) (_)_(_)  (___(_)_(/_______________________________________ bob@1776.COM
Robert K. Coe ** 14 Churchill St, Sudbury, Massachusetts 01776 ** 508-443-3265
From: smb@ulysses.att.com (Steven Bellovin)
Newsgroups: rec.railroad
Subject: Re: Railfan Plates
Date: 7 Sep 92 13:58:47 GMT

In article <1992Sep04.193057.8280@hpmcaa.mcm.hp.com>, johnm@hpmcaa (John Mosbarger) writes:
}      At this year's Winterail shindig in Stockton, there were the typical
} "foamer" personalized plates, but two interesting vehicles.  One was a small
} pickup with canopy that was completely painted in Santa Fe freight colors!
} There was a Dodge Caravan that was decked in SP Black Widow colors, and I
} understand he has a second Caravan painted in Daylight colors, complete with
} sound effects (I think it's the sound of wheels on jointed rail).

Around here, I've seen a panel truck painted in CNJ colors, complete with
yellow grab irons.  And on top, there's a horn from a diesel -- but I
don't know if it's functional...  If I recall correctly, the plates
on it say CNJ RR.
From: gurd@next04wor.wam.umd.edu (Daffy Duck)
Newsgroups: rec.railroad
Subject: Pipe Dreams
Date: 8 Sep 92 22:20:26 GMT
Reply-To: gurd@wam.umd.edu


     Doesn't anybody get tired of people spending valuable dollars on  
studying potential rail projects that will NEVER happen.  A 200 mile rail  
network in Vermont is a pipe dream!  A TGV train from Chicago to the Twin  
Cities is a pipe dream.  TGV trains between Philadelphia and Pittsburgh is  
a pipe dream.  
     Don't get me wrong I'd like to see the above projects materialize ,  
but please remember this is the United States, the country with the lowest  
gas taxes in the entire developed world.  Republicans have won the last  
three Presidential elections and don't wan't publicly financed high speed  
rail but rather privately financed pipe dream high speed rail.  Too many  
politicians that approve these studies live in the twilight zone and do  
nothing but make consultants rich (How many members of the High Speed Rail  
Association are consultants??).
     I know some people are hoping Clinton will win, but that isn't going  
to dramatically change anything!  The deficit is just too large, and  
remember the last Democratic President Jimmy Carter tried to axe Amtrak!   
Listen can we get beyond pipe dreams (TGV's and mag-lev) and work on  
projects that acutally have something better than 100 to 1 odds of  
materializing??
From: lazzaro@boom.CS.Berkeley.EDU (John Lazzaro)
Newsgroups: rec.railroad
Subject: Re: Most spectacular passenger routes
Date: 5 Sep 1992 00:32:49 GMT
Organization: University of California at Berkeley
NNTP-Posting-Host: boom.cs.berkeley.edu

>In article <2450@tymix.Tymnet.COM>, romeo@niagara.Tymnet.COM (Michael Stimac) writes:
>> 
>> So, are we rail-fans or scenery-fans? Do we point our
>> camera toward the rails or away from them?
>> 

For a combination of the two in a fairly short ride, the BART ride
from Concord to Daly City in the Bay Area is a contender. The Transbay
Tube, the Berkeley Hills tunnel, and the excavation of Market street
are civil engineering feats, while the elevated views of the Bay, the
city, and the Marin sunsets from various points on the line are very
scenic. One could argue that this line was the last great constructive
feat of a region known for its bridges and tunnels; ironically, civil
engineering progress in SF today seems to come from tearing down
structures that were a scenic blight, most notably freeways.
Newsgroups: rec.railroad
From: jis@cbnewsj.cb.att.com (jishnu.mukerji)
Subject: Re: Any real benefit to monorails?
Organization: UNIX System Laboratories Inc. (A subsidiary ofAT&T)
Date: Wed, 9 Sep 1992 21:31:05 GMT

In article <VEK.92Sep9122252@rover.allegra.att.com> vek@allegra.att.com (Van Kelly) writes:
>The "average" monorail is still a bit quieter than the "average"
>bi-rail.  Any steel-on-steel propulsion system is more difficult to
>integrate into a multi-purpose acoustical space than
>rubber-on-whatever.

That is an interesting observation that the acoustic advantage of
"average" monorail over "average "is primarily due to the use of
rubber-on-whatever rather than steel-on-steel. I wonder how an
"average" monorail compares acoustically with rubber-on-whatever
bi-rails like some of the Paris Metro lines.

Jishnu Mukerji
jis@usl.com