HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: pjh@eng.cam.ac.uk (Philippa Hogben)
Newsgroups: rec.food.veg
Subject: Re: A free opportunity to spout opinions!!
Date: 29 Sep 92 14:51:06 GMT
Reply-To: pjh@eng.cam.ac.uk
Organization: Sun Microsystems, Inc.

In article 174441JRUNNE@auvm.american.edu, JRUNNE@auvm.american.edu () writes:
>1) Anyone else out there who's set up a vegetarian lifestyle in a conservative
>(ie read:  hard to find basics) town?
>
>2)  On a starving student budget?

In my experience, the basics for a vegetarian diet come out cheaper than for one 
including meat. If you were to eat a meal based on meat you would eat (say) 8oz
of meat. This would cost in the region of L1 (depending on the type and quality),
plus of course you'd have to add in the cost of the vegetables you would eat with
it. A pound (sterling, not weight) of vegetables would make a very satisfactory 
vegetable crumble (for example) which will probably be enough to last for two
meals. Pulses are also cheaper than meat (weight for weight). Nuts can be fairly 
expensive (comparable to the cost of meat) but you would generally use a smaller 
quantity of nuts in a meal than you would meat.

I was talking to a friend on this subject last night (hi there Amanda) and we
decided that in a week you would save as much by giving up meat as you would by
giving up smoking 15-20 cigarettes a day. Makes you think..... [BTW we are both
graduate students - i.e. on a starving budget]

>3)  Favorite cookbooks?

I like Sarah Brown - her books contain a wide variety of recipes. I'm not sure
if they are available outside this country, though.

>4)  Necessary equipment?  ...
>Yes, I do need a wok.  ...
I like my wok. I use it for everything - frying (onions etc.), simmering, making 
risottos. I very rarely cook without it.

>  Anything else, though?

A sharp knife; maybe one extra pan for cooking rice while you're cooking the sauce
in the wok; an oven-proof bowl (can also be used for mixing things up in); a
chopping board (more helpful if large). That is all that I can think of at the
moment that is essential. If I had more space I would include things like a grater, 
which are useful but not essential (i.e. learn to chop things small).
>
>5)  And, of course, any general hints (especially those to avoid "blobbing out"
>by overdoing it on milk, cheese, and eggs to "make up" for the meat) would be
>GREATLY appreciated...

Make sure you eat a variety of foods. If you want to eat beans on Wednesday try
putting them on to soak on Monday and cooking them on Tuesday while you are doing
other things (I try, but I'm not organised enough, and if I don't cook them in
advance I often cook something else instead because I can't be bothered to wait
for them to cook). Try planning you menu and shopping at a market (if you have one 
available). Find a friend and cook together.

Hope this helps.

Philippa

---
Philippa Hogben   pjh@eng.cam.ac.uk  (Reverse if mailing from Janet)
Any mistakes are mine, all mnie.

I am not a .sig virus. I am a free bug. 
Xref: sparky rec.food.veg:9397 misc.fitness:7742
From: davidcam@wam.umd.edu (David Gordon Campbell)
Newsgroups: rec.food.veg,misc.fitness
Subject: Another question about bulking up for veggies
Date: 6 Oct 92 22:54:22 GMT
Article-I.D.: wam.1992Oct6.225422.22558
Distribution: usa
Organization: University of Maryland, College Park

I have seen articles on the net in the past on  how a pencil-neck geek
vegan like me can bulk up, i.e. add muscle mass.  Somebody gave references
to articles in Muscle & Fitness.  Not being able to find a library near me with back issues, I was at a loss.

Are there any books out there, that might help?

I guess I could send to M & F for back issues, but frankly, I'm too cheap.  I
kinda wanted to browse before I buy.

So, are there any books for Vegans on bulking up?  Or can someone recommend
something else.

Thanks, DC
From: brigid@geovax.ed.ac.uk
Newsgroups: rec.food.veg
Subject: Bean curd. Help!
Date: 29 Sep 92 14:27:17 GMT
Organization: University of Edinburgh, Geography Department.

I've recently begun to think I'm eating too much cheese, eggs,
milk, etc. and have been toying with the idea of making more
vegan meals. I thought I'd start by substituting soya milk
and cheese in my usual cooking routine in dishes like lasagna, 
moussaka, macaroni cheese etc. All well and good, but what about
the eggs. We eat quite a few quiches, flans and omelettes - my 
husband and son both like them. Yesterday I decided to try out
a bean curd quiche on my son. The first recipe I looked at was
for Tofu Quiche which listed 2 eggs in the ingredients (kind of
defeats the purpose), but there were two others for tofu flans.
Both said to mash the tofu well before putting it in the pastry
case with the veggies. Even well mashed and put through the 
blender the tofu had a pate' consistency which didn't really
help to fill the pastry case very well. I tried adding some 
liquid but didn't want to add too much in case it spoiled the
whole thing. Even after cooking it was still pretty cloying. My 
son wouldn't look at it, let alone eat it. I wouldn't dare let
my husband try it (he makes remarks about gelatinous cubes in the
bottom of his bowl whenever we have miso soup).

All this is a long winded way of saying - help, how can I make
a good tofu quiche or flan? Can I make something that resembles
the 'real' thing or is this impossible? 

Thanks. Brigid.
From: Greg_Dawson@mindlink.bc.ca (Greg Dawson)
Newsgroups: rec.food.veg
Subject: Unhydrogenated vegan margarine?
Date: 28 Sep 92 02:31:12 GMT
Organization: MIND LINK! - British Columbia, Canada
Distribution: world

Can anyone recommend a good *unhydrogenated* vegan margarine, available in
either Canada or the U.S.?

My final non-vegan foodstuff is now the margarine I use (Becel), which is
unhydrogenated but unfortunately not vegan.

Thanks!

Shari Dawson

Newsgroups: rec.food.veg
From: young@serum.kodak.com
Subject: Re: cow's milk
Originator: young@sasquatch
Reply-To: young@serum.kodak.com
Organization: Clinical Diagnostics Division, Eastman Kodak Company
Date: Wed, 30 Sep 92 21:47:14 GMT

In article <1992Sep30.133403.13519@wam.umd.edu> zedaker@next08wor.wam.umd.edu (Pamela Marie Weller) writes:
>Hello, 
>	Does anyone have an opinion on the new report on cow's milk by the  
>Johns Hopkins University, et. al. ( also includes Dr. Spock )?

	It was announced by PCRM (at least according to the news report I
	saw), which is revealing.  A nutritionist at the local university
	was quoted as saying that it certainly supports breast feeding IN
	THE FIRST YEAR OF LIFE [...emphasis added...].  And even Dr. Spock
	allowed as how the announcement didn't mean that children who drink
	cow's milk are doomed.

>	Opinions?!?!

	Well, you DID ask.....


-Rich Young (These are not Kodak's opinions.)
From: schiles@valentine.us.oracle.com (Suzanne Chiles)
Newsgroups: rec.food.veg
Subject: Re: "Murphy Brown" is a vegetarian
Date: 29 Sep 92 18:02:22 GMT
Article-I.D.: oracle.1992Sep29.180222.3429
Reply-To: schiles@us.oracle.com
Organization: Office Automation Division
X-Disclaimer: This message was written by an unauthenticated user
              at Oracle Corporation.  The opinions expressed are those
              of the user and not necessarily those of Oracle.

Candance Bergen may be a vegetarianm but I don't think Murphy is.  On
last night's show, she ordered a Phil Burger with fries -- sounds like
meat to me.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Suzanne Chiles				schiles@us.oracle.com
415-506-6194				Oracle Corporation
		      Honor Diversity
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Newsgroups: rec.food.veg
From: abulsari@abo.fi (Abhay Bulsari VT)
Subject: Re: List of participants (Version 8)
Organization: Abo Akademi University
Date: Sat, 3 Oct 1992 12:36:16 GMT

In article <1992Oct2.185452.28688@yrloc.ipsa.reuter.COM> loc@yrloc.ipsa.reuter.COM (Leigh Clayton) writes:
> One entry you have wrong:
>

>A. Bulsari        Injects majority of postings into this forum, never
>                  expresses own opinion, 

Not true. I do state my opinions from time to time, but much less
often than I post Michael Traub's and other people's postings.

but passes on hundreds of reposts
>                  each week 

Not more than 10, I think.

filled with new-age drivel, pseudoscientific
>                  misinformation, 

Perhaps you can tell us what misinformation has been posted.

and 2nd or 3rd hand garbage from people who
>                  choose not to post themselves.

One man's treasure is another man's garbage.

> The recent tone of this group is frankly enough to make any sensible person
>who is just considering the idea of becoming vegetarian give serious rethought
>to the idea, on the grounds that it's clearly a predisposing factor for
>terminal mental degradation. 

It seems more like the existing mental degradation might prevent
people from thinking for themselves.

I don't blame you exclusively, but all these
>reposts contribute. I also don't care for your list of contributors. No other
>group feels the need (as far as I know anyway) for such a thing, and I think
>it is a very damaging idea: the next logical step is to moderate the group (I
>presume you'll volunteer to be moderator) 

I am not willing. I don't have the time, I am not neutral and I don't
like to decide for others. (I don't really like the idea of refereeing
of scientific papers either, for reasons I will not get into here.)

and require list membership to get
>a post published.
>

With regards,
-- 
A. Bulsari                                       Tel.  358 (21) 654 721
V{rmeteknik, ]bo Akademi                         Fax   358 (21) 654 792
Va"rmeteknik, A'bo Akademi   (for the non-Scandinavian screen impaired)
SF 20500 Turku, Finland                          Tlx  57 62301 AABIB SF
Newsgroups: rec.food.veg
From: xmpp@uxa.ecn.bgu.edu (Melody Paul)
Subject: Vegetarian Caters
Organization: Educational Computing Network
Date: Thu, 1 Oct 1992 15:38:37 GMT

I need a good caterer specializing in vegatarian meals for my wedding
reception, does anyone have some suggestions.  I live in Chicago and
we are on a tight budget $1500 is the max I want to spend.



-- 
Melody P. Paul			Office:   708/534-0200
Technical Editor		Fax:      708/534-2042
Educational Computing Network	Internet: xmpp@uxa.ecn.bgu.edu
University Park, IL 60466	BITNET:   xmpp@ecnuxa
Newsgroups: rec.food.veg
From: ksdavis@silver.ucs.indiana.edu (Karleenus Schwartz Davis)
Subject: Re: Producing the perfect file :-)
Organization: Indiana University
Date: Mon, 5 Oct 1992 00:22:16 GMT

red_trek@drycas.club.cc.cmu.edu writes:
>>A bit back, I wrote suggesting that "someone[s]" should sit down and
>>pull together a file detailing *all*the reasons why anyone should 
>>become a vegetarian (or at least eat less meat; or dairy; or egg). . .

Tara McDermott wries:
>I don't think you have a full idea of what you're asking. . . 
> . . . You'd most likely end up with a book, and a
>rather LARGE one at that.  If someone really wants to read something,
>I just suggest they read this group, lurk or ask questions, and check
>out books such as . . . 

Perhaps, there should be three (or more) separate "perfect files":
One detailing the health benefits for the individual person, one
stressing the environmental concerns, and one discussing the ethical
aspect.  In my experience, there are people who simply stop listening
to you when you mention "the poor animal", others who ignore your
feelings about the environment, and even some who really don't care
about the effect of diet on their health.

When someone asks you why you're a vegetarian (or a vegan, or trying
to become one), they aren't always prepared to hear a lecture or to
add yet another newsgroup to their daily fare.  They are also probably
holding one of the prejudices described above, and to make any impact
on them at all, you've got to have something brief and nontrivial to
tell them.  I personally am not well-versed in the rhetoric, and if
there were "perfect files" out there, I'd read them.

Perhaps someone in this newsgroup is an aspiring writer?  No doubt
a project of this magnitude would be publishable. . .

-sz  
Newsgroups: rec.food.veg
From: steve@fulcrum.oz.au (Steve Taylor)
Subject: Re: vegetarians in institutions
Organization: The Fulcrum Consulting Group
Date: Wed, 30 Sep 1992 08:14:09 GMT

In <1992Sep27.000247.27510@leland.Stanford.EDU> coleman@leland.Stanford.EDU (Michele Coleman) writes:

>    At least once a year I see some article in the newspaper extolling
>new developments in the U.S. military field rations.  The "products"
>described frequently seem rather scary, like pork sandwiches which
>last for months without refrigeration.  Predictably, I never see
>vegetarian food described.

And to ask another question, what about Jews who don't want to eat the
pork? (Or just plain folks who are terrified by the thought of a meat
sandwich which will last until the end of time :) ).

Might be best just not to join the army.


							Steve
From: suzanne@sfsuvax1.sfsu.edu (Suzanne McCaffrey)
Subject: Re: mustard: how to make?
Keywords:  mustard, water, vinegar, condiments
Organization: San Francisco State University
Date: Tue, 6 Oct 1992 22:37:39 GMT

vinegar & mustard pwdr = hot mustard

water & mustard pwdr = un-hot mustard
From: balajiv@hadar.fai.com (Robi Bisesarji)
Newsgroups: rec.food.veg
Subject: Egg substitute.
Date: 22 Sep 92 22:42:15 GMT


I intend making pizza pretty soon, and I noticed that my recipe lists eggs as
one of the ingredients. Although I was once an active egg-eater, and am
still not too averse to food that contain it (like cakes, ice-creams, etc.)
I would like to avoid using it as far as possible. Are there any substitutes
for eggs available in the market, and where can I get them? Also is it
absolutely necessary to add eggs in the pizza dough?

Pointers and detailed answers will be highly appreciated. Thank you.

-b.

Newsgroups: rec.food.veg
From: mathieu@geod.emr.ca (Pierre Mathieu)
Subject: Re: Worst Recipes (Who writes these cookbooks?)
Organization: Dept. of Energy, Mines, and Resources, Ottawa
Date: Tue, 6 Oct 1992 12:28:30 GMT

JSG2@psuvm.psu.edu (Bill Miller) writes:

>I've been going through my cookbooks lately, trying to expand my
>menus.  Some of the recipes that I've tried have been really, extremely
>bad.  I am not a bad cook either and I've followed the recipes almost
>exactly.  I was wondering if others have the same problem.

>My favorite worst cookbooks:

>Vegitarian Times Cookbook (Tofu Stroganoff, Cheese and Walnut Stuffed peppers)
>Moosewood Cookbooks by Mollie Katzen -- I've heard reports that other
>      contributors have better recipes.

>Now granted, they have some good recipes, but how and why do truly uneatable
>recipes get through?  Don't they test them?  It makes me want to write my
>own book -- but then I'd be too busy testing and perfecting recipes, something
>others don't seem to do.   Could Katzen really have tested all the recipes
>that are in her 5 or so books, come on really?

I'll agree that the Moosewood books are uneven at best when it comes to the
quality of the recipes. I've found however that the "Sundays at Moosewood"
was better on the whole than the original Moosewood cookbook. I've made
excellent dishes from the Indian and African sections of the "Sundays"
book although I have also made at least one AWFUL recipe from the same book:
the tofu-tamari sauce sheppard's pie. Avoid it!! :-)  I haven't dared
try anything from the Southern U.S. section yet :-) (has anybody tried
the cola-cherry-cream cheese salad?). I've also found that recipes that 
appear in both books tended to be better in the "Sundays" (the Welsh Rarebit 
for instance).
	I imagine the main factor making this a better book is
that many people contributed to it, not just Mollie Katzen. Not to be
too harsh on Mollie, I have made some very good recipes from her books too,
the mushroom-ricotta strudel for instance.

>I think that disappointing recipe books are the hardest part of becoming
>a vegitarian.

Agreed. It was a major stumbling block for me.

How about "Laura's kitchen"? Is the quality of the recipes better and
more consistent than "Moosewood"? Does anyone know (before I fork over the 
thirty canadian bucks for the book :-) )?
--
Pierre Mathieu
Geodetic Survey of Canada
Ottawa, Canada
Internet: mathieu@geod.emr.ca
From: abulsari@aton.abo.fi (A. Bulsari)
Newsgroups: rec.food.veg
Subject: Re: List of participants (Version 8)
Date: 6 Oct 92 09:45:51 GMT
Organization: Abo Akademi University

In article <1992Oct5.125044.4527@bb1t.monsanto.com> tjfeue@bb1t.monsanto.com writes:
>Take for instance your recent post of all that misinformation about 

Something does not become misinformation just because you think it is.

>colon cleansing and purging with its pseudoscientific and *VERY*
>inacurate description of normal colonic flora, the immune system,
>etc.  Anyone without a basic knowledge of science would probably
>be taken in since it contained so many "scientific" terms.  
>However, much of what you proposed could *KILL* someone if carried
>to extremes.  Your posts can be downright dangerous.  I notice

Vegetarianism is dangerous ! Kill animals to save yourself ! With
this kind of nonsense, I will be forced to ignore you from now on.
I am willing to talk to people with views radically different from
mine only if they have sufficient decency.

>that you didn't respond to my followup on that one!  I also loved
>your post where you were saying how equitable the situation in 
>Finland is and how missunderstood it is and how ignorant USans
>are.  

Gee, I haven't seen many Lapps driving around in BMW's
>lately 

What is this sentence here for ?

and Finland is one of the most isolationist countries in
>the "1st World".  

I agree.

Isn't it about 95% the same ethnic type, Mr.
>Bulsari?  

The answer is NO.

No wonder everyone gets along so well.  There you
>have it.  Missinformation and errors of omission.  
>
>Tell us, what *IS* your professional background?  That
>might shed a little light on the subject.    

Irrelevant. Chemical Engineer (Ph.D., 1988, M.S., 1985)

>Of course, the above can be ignored since it is obviously just more
>veg bashing and personal attacks...  But you asked.     ;-)    
>
>Ted Feuerbach - Scientific Systems Consultant
>Disclaimer:  Monsanto didn't say this, I did.

Please don't expect me to respond to your postings again. I might
respond to them if I find them written decently enough. This is
not to be impolite, but I don't want to respond to everything that
appears relevant to me. 

-- 
A. Bulsari                                       Tel.  358 (21) 654 721
V{rmeteknik, ]bo Akademi                         Fax   358 (21) 654 792
Va"rmeteknik, A'bo Akademi   (for the non-Scandinavian screen impaired)
SF 20500 Turku, Finland                          Tlx  57 62301 AABIB SF
Newsgroups: rec.food.veg
From: Perrin@Acadiu.ca (Louise Perrin)
Subject: Re: Worst Recipes (Who writes these cookbooks?)
Followup-To: rec.food.veg
Organization: RRCNS
Date: Tue, 6 Oct 1992 14:41:17 GMT

In article <mathieu.718374510@gdim>, mathieu@geod.emr.ca (Pierre Mathieu)
wrote:
> How about "Laura's kitchen"? Is the quality of the recipes better and
> more consistent than "Moosewood"? Does anyone know (before I fork over the 
> thirty canadian bucks for the book :-) )?

Actually it's Laurel's Kitchen.  I found a paperback copy of the original
book approx 1981)  in a second-hand book store.  It was a godsend to me
when I was learning to convert from regular to vegetarian cooking. My
family loves a lot of the recipes in it.  Some of our favourites are: 
Zucchini Oat-Flake loaf; vegetable macaroni and cheese, Tomato sauce.  When
the kids were smaller, they like the Peanut Butter - Tofu Spread ( one of
the best ways to get tofu into them).  In fact, I loan it to friends when
they are starting out with vegetarian cooking, along with my Diet for a
Small Planet.  I think that there is a new revised version out and I will
probably buy it one of these days.

In every cookbook there are duds!!! and other items depend on your personal
tastes.  Some things I can only cook once because no one likes them. 
However, over time, tastes change and then you can try again if its been
long enough since you first cooked it.  We often analyze the dishes and
make changes based on our personal tastes.  This means they are 


Quilts are a way to give warm hugs to those you love when you can't be
there.
From: abulsari@abo.fi (Abhay Bulsari VT)
Subject: Milk and children
Organization: Abo Akademi University
Date: Sat, 3 Oct 1992 13:47:13 GMT


From: Michael Traub <traub@btcs.bt.co.uk>



Reproduced from "The Vegan", Autumn 1992.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------
CRYING OVER MILK

Up  to  one  in  five  children  referred  to paediatricians for persistent
crying  may  be  suffering  from  cow's  milk  protein  intolerance  (CMPI)
according  to  a  report  in the British Journal of Medicine. The condition
can  occur  in  breast-fed  as well as bottle-fed infants, since cow's milk
protein is transmitted through breast milk.

(from the "Independent" 5.5.92)

---------------------------------------------------------------------------

Conclusion : Cow's milk is for calves, not for humans.



-- 
A. Bulsari                                       Tel.  358 (21) 654 721
V{rmeteknik, ]bo Akademi                         Fax   358 (21) 654 792
Va"rmeteknik, A'bo Akademi   (for the non-Scandinavian screen impaired)
SF 20500 Turku, Finland                          Tlx  57 62301 AABIB SF
From: bj368@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Mike E. Romano)
Newsgroups: rec.food.veg
Subject: Re: Vitamin B12 and vegetarians
Date: 4 Oct 1992 08:39:53 GMT
Organization: Case Western Reserve University, Cleveland, Ohio (USA)
NNTP-Posting-Host: hela.ins.cwru.edu


   This is an interesting thread to me although the last reading
 I did concerning B12 was several years ago.

 At that time there was a lot of discussion among us as to
 whether a vegetarian diet could supply what is generally
 considered an adequate amount of B12 without having to take
 it in vitamin form.

 I don't remember our conclusion but I can add here that
 Tempeh if cultured in a certain manner is supposed to be
 one of the vegetarian foods containing the highest amount
 of B12.  I believe there is someone in San Jose California
 who has done quite a bit of research and collecting 
 data on tempeh and its uses, unfortunately I cannot remember
 the name nor the book title.


-- 
Capt. Kirk: let's head for that planet, third from the sun, it
            looks promising.... |-)