From: johnsd2@vccnw05.its.rpi.edu (Daniel Norman Johnson)
Subject: Re: 7.1 vs. OS/2 and Windows NT
Reply-To: johnsd2@rpi.edu
Organization: Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute, Troy, NY.
Date: Sat, 3 Oct 1992 21:40:42 GMT

In article <EenHBA_00YV_M8K6ly@andrew.cmu.edu>, cj00+@andrew.cmu.edu (Carl B Jabido) writes:
|> Well, I just got off the OS/2 bboards, and I got bored, so here I am, an
|> OS/2 2.01 beta lover and ready to do battle. . .

Dang, now where'd I leave that battle-axe.. ah here it is.
:)

|> Excerpts from netnews.comp.sys.mac.advocacy: 2-Oct-92 Re: 7.1 vs. OS/2
|> and Window.. by Bill Coleman@hayes.com 
|> > System 7 features: 
|> > * Scalable fonts (Windows has, OS/2 not)
|> OS/2 comes with ATM built in, NOT Truetype like Windows 3.1 and System 7

I had heard rumors of this (but I didn't write teh summary
you're responding to, and I just kinda assumed it was right
since, heck, a fellow Machead wrote it. :) )

|> > * InterApplication communication, with provisions for App to App
|> >communications using standard terminology (AppleEvents), on the same
|> machine
|> >or over a network. (Windows not, OS/2 not)
|> 
|> I guess not, what are the benefits? (Not a flame, I really want to know)

This is good for programmers, mostly. It means taht you can write
programs likee (to pilfer an example from annother thread) takes
any file you drop on it, and tells the finder to display the info
window for it. Its also the trick which makes publish&subscribe work.

|> > * Support for "live copy and paste" between applications that aren't running
|> >   concurrently, or are running on different machines on a network. (Not, Not)
|> 
|> The first thing sounds alot like DDE and OLE, which both have.  The
|> second one, you're right.

I have heard it said that OLE does not work when one of the programs
involved is not open, which P&S does. I am certain  DDE does not.

[deletia- 24 bit color c00lness]
|> > * Human Interface Guidelines and standards sufficient to form consistancy 
|> >   between applications (Not, Perhaps)
|> 
|> IBM Cua (Common User Access(Something like that))  Recently revised in
|> 1991- totally object oriented.  Workplace Shell conforms to this.  Check
|> out the CUA Demo IBM has.  It's cool. 

How widespread is exceptance of this GUI? It may be wonderfull,
but the programs gotta use it..

|> > * Built-in support for an SQL dialect (Not, Yes?)
|> 
|> Not sure, I'm not a big database person, we do have Extended Services
|> which comes with a Database server, I'm not sure about the standard
|> package.

The thing that he was talking about is DAL, which is a little gizmo
that lets any mac app talk to any database (if both support DAL,
of course); To be equivalent, this thing you have has to extend
to (Some) apps.

|> > * Support for the localization of Sorting order, Data and Time formats,
|> >   currency, measurement, calenders and numbers (Not, Not)
|> 
|> Umm, what's this?  A control panel?  We have them.  They're all in Settings.

No. Its a facility for make the macintosh use different conventions of
time and date, numbering, etc. It doesn't have a control panel.

|> > * Standard support for temporal data, graphics data compression, both for
|> >   static and real-time graphics and sound. (QuickTime) (Not, Not) 
|> >   (Although Windows will eventually get QuickTime when Apple ports it over)
|> 
|> OS/2 may be getting the Intel thing for multimedia.  (Not sure, is the
|> Intel standard for hardware only? or is it for software too?)  OS/2
|> already has MMPM  Multimedia for Presentation Manager.
|> (This is only my opinion:  QuickTime isn't all that great.  I've seen
|> stuff on IIci's with 8 megs of ram, etc. (ie, a higher end setup)  and a
|> quicktime movie was demoed for me.  First, it was a small window, only
|> like 160x160(?), and what really got me was how jumpy it was.  That was
|> weird because there was _nothing_ else in memory.  That was the only
|> app.  Tell me if this is just really bad performance.)

Funny, I get smooth payback on a 5 meg IIcx. However, the IIci has an
obnoxious video arrangement which can slow it down. Maybe that
was the problem.

|> > * Standard color picker (Not, Not)
|> 
|> Do you mean like a control panel?  Or some system level thing
|> controlling the pallette or something like that?  Control panels: yes.

No. He means a standard dialog to select a color.

There IS some system-level thing for control the palette, called
the Palette MAnager. Its imho very good at giving apps the colors
they want, even if they need more than one or more of the attached
monitors can support. They share the palette if there's room,
and alternate it (or part of it) if there isn't. Its really neat,
and I have no idea if OS/2 has an equivalent sort of thing. I suspect
there's a facility to allcoate a color, but I dunno if the palette
sharing and device-independant abilities of the Palette Manager
are matched. Anyone care to tell me?

[deletia- Time Manager, Aliases]
|> 
|> > * Automatic slot conflict resolution (NuBus and Slot Manager) (Not, Not)
|> >   ( MCA helps, but it isn't automatic )
|> 
|> In the PC world, hardware and operating systems are basically
|> independent of each other.  By this I mean that in the PC world, if you
|> make an OS with hardware dependence, then you risk not supporting the
|> thousands Taiwanese clones.  

the Macintosh doens't have this problem. <grin> <gloat> <other
obnoxious things>

|> BTW, tell me if I'm wrong, not all Macs come with NuBUS right?

Right. Those that dont only have 1 slot, so conflicts are hard to come
by. They all have the slot manager software that takes care of this
stuff tho.

|> Another point, I haven't really ever seen serious hardware conflicts.
|> That's with an Ethernet card, and a Soundblaster, and all the extra
|> stuff that should be on the motherboard but isn't (drive controller,
|> video, actually, if you want to be technical, Ethernet too).

Well, they can happen anyway. Its nice that you haven't been
bitten.

[deletia- power management]
|> > System 7.1:
|> > * Features to support virtually all known forms of written human
|> communication
|> >   using WorldScript. (Not, Not)
|> 
|> Well, I guess I shouldn't say this, but I will.  What's the real
|> importance of this?  Go ahead flame away.

So you can sell Macs to non-English speaking types.

|> > * Support for multiple scripts (writing systems) within the same edit field.
|> 
|> ? Don't know.  Please explain.  Again, I really want to know what this is.

this basically means that you can do things like write in Arabic,
but stick something in English in teh middle. (arabic is a
right-to-left writing system)

I think System 7.0 does this too, actually, but not as well.

|> Now let me start. . .
|> 
|> Pre-emptive multitasking.  Yeah, I know it's been on the net before, but
|> I'll reiterate it's importance.  It's important so that one app can't
|> take over the whole system.  This is great for communications because if
|> one app doesn't release control to a background program doing file
|> transfer, you'll lose the transfer.  There are other things, but in a
|> world where networking and communications are becoming the norm (enough
|> so that System 7 includes basic networking, NT will be released with it,
|> WPS IS network aware (just doesn't include the apps), Windows for
|> Workgroups, and of course UNIX), preemptive multitasking could be needed
|> more.

<sigh> Ive heard this one too often. Let me make one thing clear:
I like Pre-emtive multitasking. I want it. Its good. Pre-emptive
multitasking is your friend.

However, this does NOT imply that co-operative multitasking does not work,
or cannot work.

I'll leave it at that (tho it is very temping to rant awhile), unless
you dispute this.

Oh, one unrelated point: system 7 has more than basic networking in it.
System 1,2,3,4,5 and 6 :) had basic networking- that is an API, basically.
With system 7, you also get File sharing, some user authentication junk,
Publish&Subscribe and a bunch of additional APIs (for apple events and
better data transfer services)

|> Multithreaded operation.  This too has probably been on the net before,
|> but it's important too.  Example:  while in a word processor, I can
|> select print, and before the word processor is done sending the file to
|> the spooler, I'm back at my cursor and I can edit it or whatever.  There
|> are more examples of where threading is useful, but I'm tired because
|> it's now 1:30. . .

I agree, but this can be added. There's source code to do this
availiable on several of the big FTP sites. Its quite clever,
really. I just wish more apps used it. It would be better if it was
a standard system service.

|> Last one, (Just to get your blood temp up to about 10000000000 degrees!)
|> NO COMMAND LINE!!!

<sizzle> ow. Now cut that out!

|> Why do I want one?  How do you set a path for running programs in a
|> folder 5 or 6 deep?  You have to dbl-click, dbl-click, etc. . .  Just
|> set a path and type in the command, and you're running it.

Don't remember it. Set up aliases. Or dont set up aliases, and just
double click documents (and stationary) instead. The macintosh
knows where your apps are, let it find it.

|> 
|> Well, that should be enough.  Just a little bit more...
|> One, I won't even bother defending DOS/Win or even NT.  Their interface
|> blows chunks.
|> Two, I do like Finder.  There are just a few things I don't like about
|> it.  However, I do like the way its desktop is setup (Except the menu
|> bar)  The standard OS/2 desktop is sooooo disorganized.  Macs have the
|> drives in the top right corner, trash in the bottom right corner. 
|> That's what I've got in my setup.  Except I also have a printer object
|> which you Mac people don't.

This is supposedly coming. I dont think having a printer object is
that important, but getting rid of the #$@$ chooser is.

[deletia- praise for the Mac and OS/2]

-- 
			- Dan Johnson
And God said "Jeeze, this is dull"... and it *WAS* dull. Genesis 0:0

These opinions have had all identifiying marks removed, and are untraceable.
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