HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Date: Fri, 14 Aug 1992 16:04:55 -0400 
From: David Schroeder <ds4p+@andrew.cmu.edu>
Subject: Pennsic Update

Hi folks --

We had to come home and feed the cats (and take *hot* showers) and
I thought I'd drop the Rialto a note and let folks know what's
happening at Pennsic...

The East is doing well in this year's Grand Tournament (not "War"),
winning both belted and unbelted champions and the field battle
(plus one of the archery competitions, I think) so as of Friday
morning, before the Woods Battle, it was East 4 - Midrealm 0.

The weather has been decent -- only raining in the morning...
Great fighting weather, in the 70's, with clouds to keep off
the heat.

More merchants than ever...  longer courts than ever...

LOTS of kids of all ages -- but an emphasis on the pre-school set...

Time to head back and enjoy an invitation to dinner from
one of the best cooks in the Society...

My best to you all -- Bertram

+-----------------------------------------------------------------------+
Bertram of Bearington                                      Dave Schroeder
Debatable Lands/AEthelmearc/East               Carnegie Mellon University
INTERNET: ds4p@andrew.cmu.edu                         412/731-3230 (Home)
+------------------------ PREME * Press On * PREME ---------------------+
      "He indulged in every excess, yes in each licentious whim..."
From: Suze.Hammond@f56.n105.z1.therose.pdx.com (Suze Hammond)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: kids in SCA
Date: 14 Aug 92 06:34:00 GMT
Article-I.D.: therose.713887374.F00002

AS>  Sebastian pokes his head out for a moment.....
AS>
AS>  The ages of these little folk was not much of an issue, except
AS>  that they saw the fighting, and wanted to do the same. Children
AS>  picking up the weapons and trying th hit their buddies with them is
AS>  a constant worry.

This (and other points you brought up) is why I told William *first* to rely 
heavily on the SCA's rules of parental permission for any 
possibly-dangerous sports. To weed out the very ones who are only there to 
swagger around with weapons and no common sense. Once they have to go to 
their parents (and remember William is in Europe where custom is somewhat 
different Mundanely) I believe quite a few of the potential problems will 
drop out after Mom and Dad read the official, somewhat scary-sounding 
releases and premission forms.  :-)

With any luck, this will leave his canton with a core of pretty good (if 
young) prospects. Boredom will cull some more. Since these kids aren't there 
because their parents dragged them along, they won't be forced to stay if 
their interest wanes. And if it doesn't wane, they are good SCA material.

Moreach NicMaolain
email: trifid@agora.rain.com 
 
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
From: graydon@micor.ocunix.on.ca (Graydon)
Subject: Re: kids in SCA
Organization: M.B. Cormier INC.
Date: Mon, 17 Aug 92 21:41:00 EDT

ailsa%ailanth.uucp@wang.com (Ailsa N.T. Murphy) writes:

> Suze.Hammond@f56.n105.z1.therose.pdx.com (Suze Hammond) writes:
> 
> > (I often think we should recreate minor sorts of badges, tabards, etc., for
> > just this purpose, so the responsible young get the necessary respect. Make
> > a small cloth "sandwich board" with your arms for small pages and runners.
> > I've seen too many children ignored for the sake of their child-ness who
> > have something important to say...more often in Mundania...but even in the
> > SCA. Give them a red belt or something!)
> >
> 
> wasn't that the point of dressing your lackeys in your arms back when?  why n

NOT your arms; anyone wearing your arms was either you, or your
personal herald.  (Most people did not have a personal herald!)

Badges marked retainers and possessions; I suspect, but do not
know, that the more appropriate thing for a list officer would
be some sort of object (white rods, white arrows) that served
as a badge of office.

Graydon

        Graydon the Curious         /graydon@micor.ocunix.on.ca
  Skraeling Althing, EAldormere, MK / "Nihil est quin obsisti possit"
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
From: corun@access.digex.com (Corun MacAnndra)
Subject: Re: Pennsic Tournament
Organization: Express Access Online Communications, Greenbelt, MD USA
Date: Sat, 22 Aug 1992 18:38:07 GMT

In article <92233.162607HZS@psuvm.psu.edu> Therion <HZS@psuvm.psu.edu> writes:
>Cragin asks about the possibility of burning the huts at the town battle.
>
>I walked around the town a bit before the battle started, and asked a couple
>of marshals if we could run up and spray-paint the walls orange and consider
>them on fire.  The answer?   "They're stone huts".
>
>                       Therion-who-thinks-he's-god-and-who-died-ignominiously-
>                       in-the-town-battle-when-he-pushed-just-a-bit-too-far-
>                       past-that-wall-that-was-shielding-his-right-side-from-
>                       the-spears.

Even stone huts had wood beams on the roof and sometimes even in the walls.
But better than spray paint, how about balls tied round with red and yellow
streamers. Or a bucket of popcorn representing Greek fire. What doesn't get
eaten by the local fauna will still be biodegradeable. A few well placed
arrows with red and yellow streamers would cause the defenders to have handy
squares of blue cloth representing water with which to cover the fires. Also
remember, people burn too. Of course, I'm waiting for the sappers to take
out the lower bales and bring a building crashing down.

In Service (and sometimes jest),

Corun


Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
From: CKRUPP@UVMVM.BITNET (Christina Krupp)
Subject: ancient kilt; fabric width
Organization: The Internet
Date: Mon, 17 Aug 1992 13:20:24 GMT

Greetings from Countess Marieke! Kilt-wearers, don't feel restricted to
yard-wide cloth. The book Jason mentions was printed in 1914. At that time
the author may not have been aware of the existence of the warp-weighted
loom, on which a single person can weave cloth up to 60 inches wide, and
two people working together can go quite a bit wider than that! This type
of loom was in common use in early-period northern europe, and many archae-
ological finds dating from the early centuries of our period show that large
rectangular cloaks ("prachtmanteln," in German) and blankets were woven on it.
I suspect in later centuries, as weavers became a tightly organized, legislated
guild activity, there may have been restrictions on what widths could be woven
on the HORIZONTAL looms more familiar to us today; but it wouldn't surprise me
if the warp-weighted vertical looms remained in use, in back rooms, well after
the introduction of the horizontal looms. For more information, see Marta
Hoffman's book THE WARP-WEIGHTED LOOM, or the less reliable but more easily
available DRESS IN ANGLO-SAXON ENGLAND.

Christina Krupp                 Countess Marieke van de Dal
CKRUPP@UVMVM.BITNET             Province of Mountain Freehold, East Kingdom
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
From: christer@sue.komunity.se (Christer Romson)
Subject: Real world references article in SCA news letter
X-Unparsable-Date: Wed, 12 Aug 92 12: 15 MET DST
Organization: The Internet
Date: Wed, 12 Aug 1992 12:18:39 GMT

To all Rialto and William de Corbie from Lindorm Eriksson, Greetings!

At the Medieavl Week in Wisby last week, i saw something interesting. The
local library had a both at the market where, they sold a bibliography of
introductory material to the middle ages, including a reference to an
article in the newsletter of the Canton of Aros, edited by Master William
de Corbie who sometimes visits the Rialto. 

The article the referenced was a rewiev of a medieval service in Endre on
TV. I suspect the article was written by Master William. 
        -------------------------------------------
        Lindorm Eriksson <christer@Sue.KOMunity.Se>
From: chase@mcis.messiah.EDU
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Request to join mailing list of SCA
Date: 18 Aug 92 19:36:41 GMT
Organization: The Internet

Please add me to your net mailing list for the Society for Creative
Anachronism.

.......................................................................

Item Subject: signature
Dr. Gene B. Chase
Messiah College, Grantham PA 17027 USA                   ^  ^
Voice: 717-766-2511, ext. 2770                            /
FAX:   717-691-6002                                     \___/
net:   chase@mcis.messiah.edu
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
From: whheydt@pbhya.PacBell.COM (Wilson Heydt)
Subject: Re: Drachenwald to be kingdom
Reply-To: whheydt@PacBell.COM (Wilson Heydt)
Organization: Pacific * Bell, San Ramon, CA
Date: Thu, 20 Aug 1992 22:14:49 GMT

In article <MOSS.92Aug20094419@ibis.cs.umass.edu> moss@cs.umass.edu writes:
>Arval> The current plan
>Arval> calls for Drachenwald to be the 13th kingdom by Pennsic XXII.
>
>Mistress Sedalia (East Kingdom Seneschale) seemed happy enough! 
>
>Aethelmarc 
>the northeastern part of the
>East, which is now seriously considering principality status. Looks as if
>their might be a lot of king-making in the coming years!

Not to mention:

Ealdormere
Lochac


Now that this stuff is coming out . . .

At the West-An Tir War this year, I spent some time talking to Duke
Siegfried von Hoeflichkeit.  It was his opinon at the time that
Drachewald would be a kingdom by the end of summer '93, so there's at
least on Board member that thinks the timing is about right.

	--Hal

        Hal Ravn, Province of the Mists, West Kingdom
        Wilson H. Heydt, Jr.,  Albany, CA 94706,  510/524-8321 (home)
-- 
Hal Heydt                    |    "Boycott Time-Warner"
Analyst, Pacific*Bell        |         --J. Danforth Quayle
510-823-5447                 |    "... kill all the lawyers."
whheydt@pbhya.PacBell.COM    |         --William Shakespeare
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
From: amlsmith@morgan.ucs.mun.ca (Andrew Smith)
Subject: Re: kids in SCA
Organization: Memorial University of Newfoundland
Date: Wed, 12 Aug 1992 15:21:37 GMT


Sebastian pokes his head out for a moment.....

Are we all talking about the same things. As I see it, we have been
approached by Rogues, Kids, and Young Adults. 
The ages of these little folk was not much of an issue, except
that they saw the fighting, and wanted to do the same. Children
picking up the weapons and trying th hit their buddies with them is
a constant worry. 

Sadly, as far as I know, the intelligent, motavated young
adults have had parents who did not approve. <sigh> We'll
have to try again when they hit University. 

The kids vary in ages, sizes and interests. They too, are arrtacted
not by the geek singing, or the old bag with all the books, but
by the fighting. Swords, D&D, and Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles. 
Sadly, my green plastic armor does not help. Thank goodness I have
a sur-cote. Again, we get many who bring over their parents, and we 
give them the information and phone numbers. And they graciously tell
us, Sure, but don't call us, we'll call you. <sigh>

Rogues are the worst. They go for the arms with the intent of trying
them out on passerbys. They Insist in heckeling (sp) the speaker. 
They seem to want one thing, to have fun at everyone's expence. 
Getting rid of them is noteasily done, since their parents assume 
that we are some sort of weirdo babysitting group. I _have_ heard
a parent (of sorts) tell the kids to go and play with the swords while
they go to another area. 


It amounts to this: which sort of "kids" have you got? Are they worth
cultivating, or should they be 'weeded out'. 

I have no intention to flame anyone. The above is only what I have 
seen happening. I now return you to your regularly scheduled Rialto...


Sebastian
amlsmith@morgan.ucs.mun.ca
From: whheydt@pbhya.PacBell.COM (Wilson Heydt)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: Principality futures (was: Re: Drachenwald to be kingdom)
Date: 21 Aug 92 20:17:26 GMT
Reply-To: whheydt@PacBell.COM (Wilson Heydt)
Organization: Pacific * Bell, San Ramon, CA

In article <1992Aug21.183618.9199@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu> rday@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (Robert E Day) writes:
>In article <1992Aug21.163323.21088@pbhya.PacBell.COM> whheydt@PacBell.COM (Wils
>on Heydt) writes:
>>
>>Disadvantages:
>>
>>    Generates large quantities of Royal Peers
>>
>Is this necessarily a bad thing? It seems to me that this arrangment would 
>allow more people fo fulfill their "Dream" in the SCA. The extra 
>Viscounts/Counts/Dukes are(IMHO) a small price to pay for this.

It is not neccesarily so, no.  i put it there for two reasons.  The
first is rather simply that I had to think of *some* disadvantages,
and that can be construed as one.  The second is, I think, rather
subtler.

First please reflect that I would dearly love to see an SCA in which
*everyone* was a Peer--not by lowering what it takes to a Peer in the
Society, but by everyone within the Society exhibiting those qualities
and do those things that show that they truly *are* Peers.  (And,
indeed, I think we are closer to that state than many would
recognize, even though there is far to go in particular cases.)

Given that, there is a tension between having everyone hold high rank
within the Society and the model we are using--which is one of a
stratified society that tapers towards the top.  If *everyone* has a
'brass hat', then 'brass hats' have no particular meaning.  There
merely serve to mark those within the Society from those without--and
we have plenty of ways to do that already.

To the end of preserving some semblance of stratification (and I don't
think this topic has been addressed in any real detail in previous
discussion on the Rialto), either one must increase the difficulty of
rising in formal status--ultimately to the point that those with a
given, high  rank die off at about the same rate as they are
created--or endlessly add newer, higher ranks to the system.  The
question then becomes:  Do we wish to either of these things?  Or do
we wish to make a nod to the egalitarianism of the current
American/European society and not be at all concerned about?  The
later case leads to the sort of joke I cited.

	--Hal

        Hal Ravn, Province of the Mists, West Kingdom
        Wilson H. Heydt, Jr.,  Albany, CA 94706,  510/524-8321 (home)
-- 
Hal Heydt                    |    "Boycott Time-Warner"
Analyst, Pacific*Bell        |         --J. Danforth Quayle
510-823-5447                 |    "... kill all the lawyers."
whheydt@pbhya.PacBell.COM    |         --William Shakespeare
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
From: guth@unixg.ubc.ca (Geoff Guth)
Subject: Re: Instructions for ancient kilt - feileadh mor
Organization: University of British Columbia, Vancouver, B.C., Canada
Date: Mon, 17 Aug 1992 03:58:27 GMT

In article <Bt3nDC.6E1@gpu.utcs.utoronto.ca> aryk@gpu.utcs.utoronto.ca (A.J.S. Nusbacher) writes:
>Ailsa blamed modern ideas of colour-co-ordination on the Puritans.
>
>I would prefer to pin the ideas on Beau Brummel, who influenced the Prince
>Regent to make the dark suit the uniform of the English court.  It's much
>easier for me to envision widespread fashion influence from Beau Brummel
>than it is to imagine English people wanting to dress like puritans.

This does make more sensese considering that people are a lot more likely
to imitate the style of the Court than that of a rather marginal religious
group.>

>Why do puritans get such a bad rap, anyhow?

Perhaps because the perception that puritanism is based on the fear that
somehow, someone, somewhere is having a good time....
>
>Aryk


-- 
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
|Geoff Guth                          |Si hoc signum leger potes, operis boni  |
|Richard Britnell de Salisbury (sca) |     in rebus latinis alacribus et      |
|guth@unixg.ubc.ca                   |        fructuosis potiri potes!        |
From: del@babel.DIALix.oz.au (D Elson)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Mixed Combat 
Distribution: world
Date: Sun, 16 Aug 92 02:43:16 GMT
Organization: 


In article <1992Aug10.111747.250@csc.canterbury.ac.nz> pols055@csc.canterbury.ac.nz writes:

  > Greetings from Southron Gaard,
  > 
  > regarding the matter of combat archery: I get the impression that most people
  > feel that the golf tube and tennis ball type arrows are silly and that the
  > markland type (is this the one with a peice of dowel fixed over the shaft and
  > padded with foam etc?) is a better type but what do people think about the
  > riverhaven blunt (a rubber blunt with an end diameter of 3/4 inch). I know that  > they are widely used in Locharc but our territorial marshal, having looked at
  > the Locharc rules, reckons that they base their mixed combat upon tradition
  > rather than written rules. Has anyone here fought in mixed combat in Locharc?
  > I'd be very interested to hear your opinions upon this matter as, as I
  > mentioned earlier, we are just finalising mixed combat rules for N.Z. (which
  > the Caidan marshalate MAY be going to think about using for all Caid).

The Riverhaven Mark I and II blunts (the Mk I have a square cross section,
the Mk II have a triangular cross section) are all basically equivalent to
the Markland blunts (which are rubber, not foam.  The HTM blunts are foam
padded, because they don't have the required 3/4" diameter).  They are
legal for mixed combat under present West Kingdom and Lochac written
rules (as well as having been used for a long time).  The difference is that
the Riverhaven blunts are available in Australia, the Markland ones are
hard to get.

They are superior to most other types of blunts, and walk all over golf tube
arrows for range and accuracy.  They hit harder than a Foam blunt, but
not nearly as hard as the end of a sword.  IMHO they are an excellent
blunt for use in mixed combat.  The only drawback with them is that you
need the mesh (which you don't need for golf tubes).

  > Eleonora van den Bogaerde, Southron Gaard, Caid.
  > Simone Hindin, Christchurch, New Zealand.

-----------------------------------+-------------------------------------
D Elson                            |  del@DIALix.oz.au del@adied.oz.au
-----------------------------------+-------------------------------------
Master Delbert von Strasburg.      !  15 Errinbee St, Riverton WA 6148
Aneala, Lochac, WEST.              !  Australia.
-----------------------------------+-------------------------------------
From: Beth.Appleton@f4229.n124.z1.fidonet.org (Beth Appleton)
Sender: FredGate@ocitor.fidonet
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: ancient kilt; fabric width
Date: Sat, 22 Aug 1992 00:46:18

 CK> Greetings from Countess Marieke! Kilt-wearers, 
 CK> don't feel restricted to
 CK> yard-wide cloth. The book Jason mentions was 
 CK> printed in 1914. At that time
 CK> the author may not have been aware of the existence 
 CK> of the warp-weighted
 CK> loom, on which a single person can weave cloth up 
 CK> to 60 inches wide, and
 CK> two people working together can go quite a bit 
 CK> wider than that! This type
 Hmmmm.  I've read _The_Warp_Weighted_Loom_, and it is truly wonderful. 
 I would only offer up a couple of small problems, and truly I am 
 untutored enough in the full history to be thoroughly sure that these 
 are problems.
    Item:  The *modern* tartan is a twill.  This (generally?) requires 
 either a 4-harness loom or careful hand-picking.  I think this would 
 be rather difficult on a Warp-weighted loom (but haven't tried it). 
 Mind you, I'm not sure how this relates to what the Scots wore in our 
 period, that's part of the modern definition:  it's not tartan unless 
 it's twill.
    I do know that twill is quite period -- I'm just not sure about the  tartans worn by the Scots.
    If you'd like to see some pre-period (or very early period, depending  on your viewpoint) tartan-like plaids, check out _The_Bog_People_, 
 by P.G. Glob, trans. by Rupert Bruce-Mitford.  Pg 81 and pg 130 have 
 some examples.  Gotta go....
    Gwenllian CfM

 * Origin: Herald's Point * Steppes/Ansteorra * 214-699-0057 (1:124/4229)
From: Tim@f4229.n124.z1.fidonet.org (Tim)
Sender: FredGate@ocitor.fidonet
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: Hello, my name is...
Date: Tue, 18 Aug 1992 22:23:23

 Tadhg Liath.

 Some (very few) of you know me.

 Many more *think* you know me, but most likley don't.

 Quite a few of you may have heard of me; you probably know me least well
 of all.

 But stay tuned - you'll find out....

 * Origin: Herald's Point * Steppes/Ansteorra * 214-699-0057 (1:124/4229)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
From: carl@silver.lcs.mit.edu (Alexander of Kiev (mka Carl Alexander))
Subject: Re: Pennsic Update (End)
Organization: The Rialto
Date: Tue, 18 Aug 1992 05:25:19 GMT

>Vajk writes:
> 
>I believe the figure at troll booth read:
> 
>           Final Count   8276
> 
>If memory doesn't fail me.
 
Close:  it actually said 8278.  The sunday _Pennsic Dailie Tidings_
gave a figure for gentles on site of 8292.
 
Alexander of Kiev                       Carolingia, East

Carl Alexander                          Harvard Square, Cambridge, Mass.
carl@silver.lcs.mit.edu 


Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
From: whheydt@pbhya.PacBell.COM (Wilson Heydt)
Subject: Re: Combat Archery
Reply-To: whheydt@PacBell.COM (Wilson Heydt)
Organization: Pacific * Bell, San Ramon, CA
Date: Wed, 12 Aug 1992 16:01:43 GMT

In article <1992Aug12.154715.8967@pbhya.PacBell.COM> whheydt@PacBell.COM (Wilson Heydt) writes:
>In article <1992Aug12.030721.24786@sol.UVic.CA> iwood@sol.UVic.CA (Ian Wood) writes:
>>that a maximum of 70 foot pounds of torque is permitted for combat archery,
>
>>70 foot pounds of torque.  
>
>Hmmmm . . .  28 inches [2-1/3 feet]
>times 30 pounds gives 70 foot-pounds--but this doesn't allow for the
>string height.  Hmm . . .  again.  My Lord, are you sure those that
>created these specifications knew what they were doing?)

[Oh, dear.  I'm starting comment on my own articles . . .]

I think what is actually wanted is the integral of force over
distance.  I beleive the correct term for this summation would be
'impulse'.  While integration is *probably* period, I don't think the
publication of it is (anybody know, off hand, what the publication
date of _Principia Mathematica_ is?  When did Leibnitz publish?)--I
think--OOP.

The most practical method would be to fasten a bow horizontally, belly
(and string down).  Take a spring scale and a ruler and measure the
pull every inch.  Sum the pull measurements.  Since they are taken
every inch, the result is inch-pounds.  (Our cousins across various
seas may with to use centimeter-kilograms.)

	--Hal

        Hal Ravn, Province of the Mists, West Kingdom
        Wilson H. Heydt, Jr.,  Albany, CA 94706,  510/524-8321 (home)
-- 
Hal Heydt                    |    "Boycott Time-Warner"
Analyst, Pacific*Bell        |         --J. Danforth Quayle
510-823-5447                 |    "... kill all the lawyers."
whheydt@pbhya.PacBell.COM    |         --William Shakespeare
From: Bob.Upson@f333.n142.z1.fidonet.org (Bob Upson)
Sender: Uucp@blkcat.UUCP
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: Who Won the War?
Date: Fri, 21 Aug 1992 20:06:00 -0500

> There was no war.
 
> This year, there was a Pennsic Tournament, in which the East demolished
> the Middle, winning most points very handily.
 
Trust me.  There was a war.  The 'Tourney' thing was a clever Ruse(lan) to
unbalance our noble opponents...  <SEG>