From: philipla@microsoft.com (Phil Lafornara)
Subject: Re: BofA and UW can now support discrimination against blacks and Jews
Date: 24 Aug 92 21:07:08 GMT
Organization: Microsoft Corporation

In article <palane.714459256@pv742b.vincent.iastate.edu> palane@iastate.edu (Paul A. Lane) writes:
>In <1992Aug21.110428.10268@m.cs.uiuc.edu> kadie@herodotus.cs.uiuc.edu (Carl M. Kadie) writes:
>
>>I am disgusted to read that the United Way of Suburban Chicago will
>>now support racially and religiously discriminatory programs.
>>According to Eric Zorn's column on August 16, the suburban United
>>Way's new "antidiscrimination" policy says that groups "organized by,
>>on behalf of, or to serve persons of a particular race, religion, sex,
>>national origin" are now eligible for funding.
>
>>The column says this change was made to allow funding of the Boy
>>Scouts (who exclude gay and atheist boys). But thanks to the new
>>policy, a KKK youth program designed to serve only white Christians is
>>now eligible for United Way funding.
>
>Point 1: BSA has ALWAYS been an organization with religous ties. Any idiot
>could figure that out from the start. If you ever attended a meeting, you'd
>note that they meet in churches.

     Why, then, is the BSA receiving money from the United Way, which
was specifically created to allow a way for people to donate to
non-religious organizations?


>Claiming that Jews are equivalent to atheists is morally reprehensible. Along
>with Islam, Judaism and Christianity both come out of the Abrahamic tradition.
>At least you could use a religion that is not tied to the Old Testament as
>your example.

     Are religions only valid if they are based on your Bible?  Also,
where in the above quoted text is any comparison between Jews and
atheists made?  And, assuming that such a comparision was made (I can't
find it), why would such a comparison be "morally reprehensible"?
     I can see at least one similarity between Jews and atheists -
both groups have been persecuted or discriminated against, either
in the past or in the present day (or both).


>>Is it possible to create a policy that supports discrimination of
>>atheists and gays but excludes discrimination of Jews and
>>African-Americans? If not, should the BSA be excluded or should the
>>KKK be included?
>
>Easily. Athiesm is not merely not Christian. Stick to arguing about gays.
>Your argument collapses when extended.

      Your insight astounds me.  Atheism is not Christian?  Really? My
question to you is:  So?  Is the Christian viewpoint somehow inherently
more valid than others?  Should Christians be a priveleged class in
this country?  Should Christian groups receive funds specifically
tagged for non-religious organizations?


>You evidently believe that no non-profit religious organization (or any
>organization with religious ties) deserves any support from private busi-
>ness (or, evidently, anyone else). Presumably, support for AA is out the
>window. Catholic charities is quite obviously discrminatory. I imagine that
>I could find dozens of organizations whose ties render them incompatible
>with your standards. 

     If the organizations actively discriminate against people because
of race, religion, gender, or sexual orientation, then they shouldn't
be receiving money from the United Way, or any other private 
organization with a reasonable non-discrimination policy.  My
standards are irrelevant - the donor organization has its own standards.


>[There are also some distinct differences between being gay and being black,
>but I do not wish to dilute my argument.]

     If you're planning on making the "you choose to be gay"
argument, it's been played to death.  The bottom line is:  If you
can choose to be gay for a day, you might have a case.
     If you plan on pointing out such subtle differences as "I can
tell me skin tone whether a person is black, but I can't tell whether
they are gay right away," then you are obviously correct.  That
correctness doesn't make the point particularly interesting, though.

					-Phil

-- 
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
Phil Lafornara         				1 Microsoft Way         
philipla@microsoft.com				Redmond, WA 98052-6399 
Note:  Microsoft doesn't even _know_ that these are my opinions. So there.
Newsgroups: rec.scouting,alt.discrimination,chi.general,alt.atheism,alt.politics.homosexuality