From: drice@ponder.csci.unt.edu (Keith Rice)
Newsgroups: soc.religion.christian
Subject: Re: Is there anybody here that's not a Baptist?
Date: 30 Jul 92 07:59:41 GMT
Organization: University of North Texas

I am posting this and all other replies to my comments to this newsgroup
instead of rec.music.christian per someone's request because it doesn't
deal w/ Christian music.

Also, I will be posting _all_ email sent to me concerning this matter.

Keith

--------------------------------------------------------------------------

You said:
>In <1992Jul28.205404.21845@noose.ecn.purdue.edu>
salaris@niblick.ecn.purdue.edu
> (Rrrrrrrrrrrrrrrabbits) writes:
>>We do not view Revelation as a true propecy of the end times
                                              ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
> 
>Quotes from Revelation chapter 1 (NIV):
> 
>v. 1 - The revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave him to show his
>       servants what must soon take place.
                           ^^^^
>vv. 17-19 - When I (John) saw him (Jesus), I fell at his feet as though
>            dead. Then he placed his right hand on me and said: "Do not
>	    be afraid. I am the First and the Last. I am the Living One;
>	    I was dead, and behold I am alive for ever and ever! And I
>	    hold the keys of death and Hades. Write, therefore, what you
>	    have seen, what is now and what will take place later."
                 ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
> 
>IMO, if you do not believe that Revelation is true, then you do not
>believe that Jesus Christ speaks truth.

Rabbit said "of the end times," remember?  He believes that these
prophecies have already been fulfulled, not that they are untrue.  
 
>>We have 9 more books in our old Testament
> 
>Proverbs 30:5,6 (NIV) - Every word of God is flawless; he is a shield
>	to those who take refuge in him. Do not add to his words, or
>	he will rebuke you and prove you a liar.

The Deutero-Canonical books are the 9 books you have missing from your
OT.  These books are part of the Greek Bible of the Seventy used by the
Jews of the Dispersion.  There are some historical books (like the 2
books of Maccabees), some wisdom (like Wisdom of Solomon &
Ecclesiasticus), some moral stories (like Judith & Tobit).  They are no
longer included in the Hebrew Bible, but are accepted as inspired by the
Church and are thus part of the Christian canon.  

>>We venerate icons and view them as representations of events and
>>beings in Heaven.
> 
>Exodus 20:4 (NIV) - You shall not make for yourself an idol in the form of
>	anything in heaven above or on the earth beneath or in the waters
>	below. You shall not bow down to them or worship them; for I, the
>	LORD your God, am a jealous God
> 
>From Webster's Dictionary: 
> 
>venerate - to regard with reverential respect or with admiring deference.
>	(syn. see 'revere')
> 
>worship(2) - to regard with great, even extravagant respect, honor, or
>	devotion. (syn. see 'revere')
what about the other 5 definitions of worship I found in my Webster's?
> 
>revere - to show devoted deferential honor to: regard as worthy of great
>	honor (syn. 'reverence,' 'venerate,' 'worship')

Did you know if you picked any random 2 words, and traced their synonyms
in a thesaurus, you can find a word common between the 2 of them within
7 words?  The point is, connotative meaning is not always the same as
denotative (dictionary) meaning.  If you respect the president, for
example, would you consider yourself to worship him?  What about pastor
of your church?  Some of the theologians who developed the doctrines you
hold so firmly?  

The point is, there is a distinction between veneration ("reverential
respect") and worship ("great, even extravagant respect ... or
devotion"), and I think Rabbit is intelligent enough to realize that, as
are the rest of our Orthodox brethren.  

I am responding to you personally, since this has nothing to do with
music.  However, I am not ashamed of anything I have written here, and
would not object if you felt it necessary to post this to the group
anyway.

Eleen N. Kamas
ee2g+@andrew.cmu.edu
_______________________________________________
If you think education is expensive -- try ignorance.
		--Derek Bok, President of Harvard U.