HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: thf2@ellis.uchicago.edu (Mmmm... Purple)
Newsgroups: soc.college
Subject: Re: Clauses of interest from our bylaws
Date: 6 Nov 92 20:55:26 GMT
Article-I.D.: midway.1992Nov6.205526.18709
Reply-To: thf2@midway.uchicago.edu
Organization: University of Chicago Computing Organizations

In article <1deilgINN5fv@cat.cis.Brown.EDU> MIKEF@brownvm.brown.edu (Mike Fessler) writes:
>Ted, I'm a member of a co-ed fraternity at Brown University. Here's a question
>for you: given the following two clauses from our bylaws (accurate in substance
>if not in exact phrasing -- I don't have them in front of me, but I was on
>our bylaw revision committee a couple of years ago so I remember the gist)
>and the fact that our emphasis on alcohol since our founding ten years
>ago has been minimal to nil, are you still prepared to condemn me because
>I'm a fraternity member?

No.  It would be awfully difficult for me to, when I'm a member of two
co-ed fraternities that don't have a rush, either.  I even live with
the president of the law school's Phi Alpha Delta chapter, and, gosh, 
wouldn't you know it, we get along just fine as long as each of us 
remembers to clean the dishes.  And we don't even sleep with each other,
even though we're of the opposite sex, are in the same fraternity taking
many of the same classes in the same law school living in the same apartment!  
Imagine that!  

Note that I haven't condemned anybody for being a fraternity member.
I've only condemned fraternities that haven't undergone the reforms
that your chapter has.  I'd prefer if your chapter doesn't have the
rush period at all, but, hey, the main stumbling block is the sexism,
so I'm happy for y'all.  I may have expressed disgust at some of the
sexist generalizations I've seen some fraternity members make in the
last couple of days, but that's certainly not a blanket condemnation
of fraternity members at large.

>1) The Kappa Chapter of the Fraternity of Delta Psi shall not discriminate,
>either in the selection of its members or in participation in its activites,
>on the basis of sex, race, religion, handicap, national origin, or sexual
>orientation.
>
>2) The Kappa Chapter of the Fraternity of Delta Psi shall not engage in
>any physical or psychological mistreatment of its pledges or members, including
>but not limited to "hazing" as defined by Brown University policy and Rhode
>Island law.
-- 
ted frank                     | thf2@ellis.uchicago.edu 
also at quibeaux@uchicago.edu | standard disclaimers | void where prohibited
the university of chicago law school, chicago, illinois 60637
Newsgroups: soc.college
From: philo@athena.mit.edu (philo)
Subject: Re: PEACE CORPS
Organization: Massachusetts Institute of Technology
Date: Sat, 14 Nov 1992 00:25:24 GMT

In article <1992Nov12.203009.27607@cs.uwp.edu>, sheen@cs.uwp.edu (Leslie Sheen) writes:
|> 
|> PEACE CORPS...
|> 
|> 
|> I am very much interested in any information anyone may have regarding the
|> Peace Corps.  I am giving serious thought to joining and would like some
|> input from former volunteers, those thinking about it,.... etc. etc.
|> 
|> email to LESLIE 
|> sheen@cs.uwp.edu

Please post any info on this newsgroup, since it is of general interest.

-philo.
-- 
.....................
dakhlak.... hawn nazl s suruur?
				(Ziad)
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
From: 01sybok@ac.dal.ca
Newsgroups: soc.college
Subject: Re: This "Frat" discussion...
Date: 6 Nov 92 09:14:23 -0400
Organization: Dalhousie University, Halifax, Nova Scotia, Canada

In article <1992Nov4.224226.4763@midway.uchicago.edu>, thf2@ellis.uchicago.edu (Mmmm... Purple) writes:
> In article <key2kSm00WB4I945s9@andrew.cmu.edu> Erik Warren Selberg <es2q+@andrew.cmu.edu> writes:
>>fulton@silver.ucs.indiana.edu (Ben Fulton) writes:
>>> Based on the bibliography that Ted posted, I understand his arguments.  I've
>>> never seen any responding bibliography from fraternity members, so I
>>> can't speak for the validity of their arguments.  It is clear, I suspect,
>>> to the majority who is winning this argument.
>>
>>Someone went and read the bibliography in the last flame war (Mark?).
> 
> Mike claimed to have read a couple of the articles on the list, but it
> wasn't clear if he misunderstood them or was just deliberately mis-
> representing them.   

Read quite a few of them. Tell me Ted, which ones did I mess up on? Maybe
the one from Ms. Magazine? The one from 1969? the case study whose limited
external validity I won't even get into? Or was it the one that had nothing
whatsoever to do with fraternities and rape?

We'll leave the gentle readers of soc.college to decide.

Mike


> But a number of other people e-mailed me about the list, and a good portion
> of them wrote to discuss what they had read, so I'm content.  Alas, one
> of the books with a more incendiary title ("Fraternity Gang Rape" by P.R.
> Sanday) appears to be missing from every single college library that owns
> it.  I wonder why?

That would be the case study one. How too quaint. Damn good read. No external 
validity. Care to rethink that "disappeared from most libraries" 
generalization?

>>Besides, to be quite honest, all of this discussion is fairly
>>pointless -- you're never going to convince me that the Greek system
>>is bad, and I'm never going to convince you that it's good.
> 
> There are a few people out there who are more open-minded or undecided,
> including me. 



Muahahahahahahaha! now THERE's a quote!


> Hell, I'd love to be convinced the fraternity system (I'm
> reluctant to call it "Greek," because I've studied enough Greek to know
> it has nothing to do with fraternities) is good, because it would be a
> much more popular point of view to espouse. 

Albeit less politically correct


Mike
From: msaletni@jade.tufts.edu (Michael J. Saletnik)
Newsgroups: soc.college
Subject: Re: Tufts University
Date: 5 Nov 92 13:36:09 GMT
	<1992Nov4.135038.2369@merrimack.edu> <1992Nov5.012017.21922@umr.edu>
	<96231@netnews.upenn.edu>
Distribution: usa
Organization: Tufts University - Medford, MA

Actually, the address list was vague, sort of.  Mail to Tufts
University via 'tufts.edu' *should* arrive.  However, there is no
host with that name, just an MX lookup.
If you want the generic academic machines:
	pearl.tufts.edu	VAX/VMS
	jade.tufts.edu	Convex/Unix
Computer science's e-mail is to 'cs.tufts.edu'

Note: Tufts is no longer on Bitnet

Sorry about posting instead of e-mail replying, I hit the wrong key
and now that I've noticed, I can't change one type into the other.

							Michael

--
Michael J. Saletnik, Tufts University E'91 G'93  / I reserve the right
Department of Civil Engineering Computer Lab TA / to be utterly and
michael@binkley.ext.tufts.edu (daily uucp)     / completely wrong.
From: geoffb@coos.dartmouth.edu (Geoff Bronner)
Newsgroups: soc.college
Subject: Re: Frats
Date: 6 Nov 92 19:02:10 GMT
Reply-To: geoffb@Dartmouth.EDU
Organization: Amos Tuck School
Disclaimer: I don't represent Dartmouth and Dartmouth doesn't represent me.

In <IeyddWS00WB717aaRo@andrew.cmu.edu> es2q+@andrew.cmu.edu (Erik Warren Selberg) writes:

>I am thinking of a house in which they are equal. 
 
You may think so but trust me, you aren't.

>The point I'm trying
>to make is that the addition of women into an all-male fraternity
>(likewise, men into a sorority) would cause more internal problems
>than I think it is worth. 

There would be rough times during a transition. Any organization that
becomes co-ed needs to be very dedicated to make it work. But if the
members are up to the challenge it can work. And it is worth as much as
your precious brotherhood.

>Also, in response to your point, the one of
>the purposes of a fraternity IS male bonding, and I see no reason why
>someone should try to change that purpose. If I want to bond, then
>that's my right.

Sure it is, but why do you have to do it in an organization context? Men
in coed organizations manage to male bond as well, you don't have a
monopoly on the activity.

>A fraternity shouldn't be a proving ground for love! A social
>fraternity should provide you with EXTERNAL OPPORTUNITIES for
>relationships, and should not be something like a "dating club."

You seem to operate under an incorrect assumption that members of coed
houses a) have no fiends outside the hopuse because they date each other,
and b) join the house to sleep with each other and nothing else.
That's just wrong. Sure, people in coed houses date each other, but a lot
of them don't. The coed houses I have worked with have as much contact
with non-members and external organizations as single sex houses. Maybe
you would feel an obligation to date your house sister but I don't. I'm
capable of having female friends that I don't want to date.

-Geoff
--
geoffb@Dartmouth.EDU - Computing Support Consultant, Tuck School of Business

  If I had a choice between George Bush and a goat I would vote for the goat.
                            Vote Goat in 92!
From: bri@panix.com (Brian Shanblatt)
Newsgroups: soc.college
Subject: LAW SCHOOL CAREER DEVELOPMENT OFFICES
Date: 10 Nov 92 14:15:32 GMT
Article-I.D.: panix.1992Nov10.141532.5208
Distribution: usa
Organization: PANIX Public Access Unix, NYC

I am the systems manager at Cardozo School of Law's placement office (aka "Center for Professional Development ) I maintain our computers and databases of law  firms and judges, and I do applications programming to manipulate that data.  I would like to hear from other law school career officers about their schools computer capabilities, O.C.I. programs, clerkship programs, etc.  I would also like to hear from law students about their experiences with their placement officees. Thanks!!

-- 
bri@panix.com
"How to learn how to sing: There is always tomorrow..." 
Newsgroups: soc.college
From: lie6@ellis.uchicago.edu (Jonathan Lieberman)
Subject: Re: Frats (underage drinking)
Reply-To: lie6@midway.uchicago.edu
Organization: University of Chicago Computing Organizations
Distribution: usa
Date: Sun, 8 Nov 1992 10:28:05 GMT

zkessin@chaos.cs.brandeis.edu  (Zach, the Lego Maniac) writes:

>The drinking age in all *50 STATES* is 21 (I'm almost shure of that)

It is 18 in Lousiana. (and 2 other states I believe.)

-- 
____________________________________________________________________________
                            | People demand freedom of speech to make up 
Jonathan Lieberman          | for the freedom of thought which they avoid.
lie6@midway.uchicago.edu    |                        -Kierkegaard
Newsgroups: soc.college
From: aelman@Xenon.Stanford.EDU (Adam Elman)
Subject: Re: Easy way to find E-mail addresses -- Netfind
Keywords: netfind, find, address, e-mail
Organization: CS Department, Stanford University, California, USA
Date: 11 Nov 92 05:48:38 GMT

schuyler@acf9.nyu.edu (Gabriel M. Schuyler) writes:

>Well, now that I've seen about a dozen posts of "How to I write to XX at
>suchandsuch college?"   I figured I should share this info.  You can use the
>netfind server at cs.colorado.edu to find people.  just:

[instructions deleted]

Just so people don't get your hopes up _too_ much, I was unable to
find myself using netfind a couple of times.  But it's worth trying, I
guess. :-)

Who knows, maybe I just don't have the touch. :-)

Adam Elman
aelman@cs.stanford.edu
Organization: Central Michigan University
Date: Thursday, 5 Nov 1992 11:33:41 EST
From: Mark Strandskov <34HLEFG@CMUVM.CSV.CMICH.EDU>
Newsgroups: soc.college
Subject: Mailing list of all Universities and Colleges in the US

I am looking for a mailing list (US Postal Addresses) of all the
universities and colleges in the United States.   I would appreciate
any help.  Please send responses directly to me.

Thanks,

Mark...
Newsgroups: soc.college
From: jagreath@eos.ncsu.edu (JOSEPH ALAN GREATHOUSE)
Subject: Re: Re^2: Frats
Originator: jagreath@c00100-100lez.eos.ncsu.edu
Reply-To: jagreath@eos.ncsu.edu (JOSEPH ALAN GREATHOUSE)
Organization: North Carolina State University, Project Eos
Date: Tue, 10 Nov 1992 22:46:48 GMT


In article <1992Nov6.080134.8658@ac.dal.ca>, 01sybok@ac.dal.ca writes:
|>In article <4210@novavax.UUCP>, vest@novavax.UUCP (Steven Vest) writes:
|>> jagreath@eos.ncsu.edu (JOSEPH ALAN GREATHOUSE) writes:
|>> 
|>>>I think the entire problem here, Ted, is that you don't understand the *depth*
|>>>of the commitment a man feels for his Fraternity.  I know you had problems with
|>>>unrecognized Fraternities at Brandeis.  But you don't know the inside working
|>>>of a Fraternity.  You haven't been exposed to the idealism and beauty of a 
|>>>Fraternity's Ritual.  And you take your experiences at Brandeis and try to apply
|>> 
|>> My God.  The last time I heard someone use phrases such as this they were
|>> either trying to sell me a poppy or get me to put down the shotgun and let
|>> them in off the porch so that they could go over the latest issue of 
|>> The Watchtower with me.  You know there is this group of guys in Philadelphia
|>> who will try to deprogram you for a price.
|>> 

|>Actually I agree with the first poster. There is a lot of beauty in a 
|>fraternity ritual. I realize that when fraternity members try and explain
|>the commitment they feel to their fraternities they end up sounding like 
|>fanatics, but what they say is true (and yes, I am a proud fraternity member).

I even have a citation for you to read.  It's called "Secret Thoughts of a 
Ritual" by Dr. Edward M. King, an administrator at Bradley University.  It might
give some of you who aren't in Fraternities an idea of what I was talking about
in my original post.


-- 
**************************************************************************
*                                                                        *
*  Joseph A. Greathouse            *  All opinions are solely mine.      *  
*  Theta Chi Fraternity            *  A non-hazing, leadership-oriented  *
*  Delta Rho Chapter               *  organization, promoting Alma Mater *
*  North Carolina State University *  and the concept of a Helping Hand. *
*  Final Score:  Wolfpack 31 - Wahoos 7  Go Pack!!!!                     *
**************************************************************************
From: tarra@skat.usc.edu (Tom)
Newsgroups: soc.college
Subject: Re: frats
Date: 13 Nov 1992 13:30:27 -0800
Organization: University of Southern California, Los Angeles, CA
Distribution: na
NNTP-Posting-Host: skat.usc.edu

In article <5924@balrog.ctron.com> smith@ctron.com writes:

>"Tense", Mike, "tense".  If you're going to post a spelling flame,
>at least don't make mistakes of your own in doing so.
>
>Larry Smith (smith@ctron.com)  No, I don't speak for Cabletron.  Need you ask?
>-
Is this the same Larry Smith that is trying to ruin USC football?  If so,
just a word of advice.  Don't ever run the option to the short side on 
third and long, it never worked, and it never will.


Tom

-- 
"Chicks dig me because I rarely wear underwear"  
					Bill Murray 
Newsgroups: soc.college
From: bonney@esds.mdc.com (Greg Bonney)
Subject: any good colleges in North Western Florida?
Organization: Visual Simulation Systems
Distribution: usa
Date: Wed, 11 Nov 1992 21:29:50 GMT

Are there any good colleges close to the Destin, Florida?
If not, how about Pensacola or Panama City?  
Newsgroups: soc.college
From: lemson@ux1.cso.uiuc.edu (David Lemson)
Subject: Re: REQUEST : How does your school handle dorm assignments?
Organization: University of Illinois at Urbana
Date: Sat, 7 Nov 1992 07:31:21 GMT

(J Klein) writes:

>> I find this difficult to believe.  A school _actually_ houses students
>> based on test scores?  Stanford (and most other schools in my

>Same at Yale. I totally agree with you, except I even wonder why dorms
>should even be separated by major or interests.  You would miss out on the
>full realm of experience that most colleges mean to offer by having
>students of different majors/interests.  Just as one wouldn't want a "dumb
>dorm," why would one want a "nerd" dorm, a "jock" dorm, or a "Comparitive
>Literature" dorm?

At UIUC, it is based on preference, and people are paired up based
on major.  I can understand this, because people with the same major
are more likely to have similar interests, classes, and class loads.
If I, as a computer engineering student, were paired up with a
philosophy major, I would likely kill them as I studied all the time
while they did not study. (ok, replace 'philosophy major' with 'any
major where the people don't study as much as I do' - don't flame
me, you know what I'm talking about)
However, floors are not grouped together by major except in that
engineering students tend to rank the dorms closer to the
engineering campus with a higher preference.  So, you might be next
door to two fine arts majors, etc.


I think it's downright nuts to decide dorm space on the basis of
GPA... I don't know about discriminatory (probably not), but it's
crazy.
-- 
David Lemson                                                (217) 244-1205
University of Illinois NeXT Campus Consultant / CCSO NeXT Lab System Admin
Internet : lemson@uiuc.edu                UUCP :...!uiucuxc!uiucux1!lemson 
NeXTMail accepted                                  BITNET : LEMSON@UIUCVMD
Newsgroups: soc.college
From: kanamori@Xenon.Stanford.EDU (Atsushi Kanamori)
Subject: Re: attendance policy
Organization: CS Department, Stanford University, California, USA
Date:  7 Nov 92 20:47:25 GMT

erwinaw@NeXTwork.Rose-Hulman.Edu (Anthony W Erwin) writes:

>	If it's that hard for you to go to class, then maybe you should 
>       find a factory job.  
>       By the way, exactly how many classes do you think that a person  
>       should be allowed to miss? 

All of them.


>	 I don't see any real reason to miss class unless there is a serious  
>        conflict such as illness.  

I can think of several very good reasons:

    * Stuff covered that day coincides with something I've learned before.
    * A conflict such as a job interview.
    * Incompetent professor -- reading every third word in the textbook
      is more educational.

>You now that you're paying for that class don't you?   

Certainly. But it's my money -- it's no one's business how (or whether) I 
choose to exploit the product that I purchased.


>If you don't go, you don't learn as much.  

Your proof for this generalization? I think it's often the case that
there are more profitable and educational ways to spend an hour than
sitting in a lecture hall.

Actually, my strategy throughout my late undergraduate days was to
make the professor superfluous by learning from the book and other 
sources.

If I did my best to make the professor superfluous and *couldn't do so*,
the prof got a good rating from me at evaluation time.
From: msaletni@jade.tufts.edu (Michael J. Saletnik)
Newsgroups: soc.college
Subject: Re: False fire alarms: Are they a problem for you?
Date: 11 Nov 92 12:13:05 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: Tufts University - Medford, MA

False fire alarms were a problem only twice for me.  When I was a
freshman, for about 4 days our fire alarm went off every 8 hours.
Almost *exactly* every 8 hours.  "Wiring" problem.  Bleah.

Then, as a senior, after two complaints to Residential Housing, our
Co-op (in a dorm building, a suite, 4 persons, 3 bedrooms, a kitchen,
living room and bath) fire alarm was never fixed.  One time, during a
party, the building alarm went off.  We didn't know.  I only found out
because I walked into my bedroom, where some people were watching a
Bruins playoff game, and noticed on the TV screen static (pause)
static (pause) static (pause) static (pause).  A quick walk outside
confirmed that our alarm was trying to go off...

We have had plenty of problems with a brand-new building they built.
This sucker is really wired up, to the point that if an outside door
stays open for too long, it signals "propped door" at Campus Police
and they send someone to close it.  This place had so many false
alarms when first occupied...

Sorry, that's more story then information, but ... 
:-)
					Michael

---
--
Michael J. Saletnik, Tufts University E'91 G'93  / I reserve the right
Department of Civil Engineering Computer Lab TA / to be utterly and
michael@binkley.ext.tufts.edu (daily uucp)     / completely wrong.
From: dci2@ns1.cc.lehigh.edu (DAVID CHARLES IANNETTA)
Newsgroups: soc.college
Subject: email address for Naval Academy wanted please
Date: 9 Nov 92 21:43:13 GMT
Organization: Lehigh University

I was wondering if anyone could please give me the address for the naval
academy.  I have a friend there but i couldn't call him to ask because he is a
freshman and he doesn't have a phone so I can't call him.  Any help would be
greatly appreciated. Thaanks


                                    Dave
From: biesanz2024@iscsvax.uni.edu
Newsgroups: soc.college
Subject: Marquette E-mail address?
Date: 13 Nov 92 10:18:40 -0600
Organization: University of Northern Iowa

        Hey! 
  Does anyone know the E-mail address of Marquette University?  I need to find
a friend of mine who is an undergrad, and netfind in my experience can only
find faculty on the university.  True or false?

  Anyway, why is it so fricken' complicated to find a student at another
university?  Some universities are accesible to searches and some aren't.
What gives?

                Mike biesanz  :-D

Newsgroups: soc.college.grad
From: hanus@epas.utoronto.ca (Peter John Hanus)
Subject: Jonathon White?
Organization: University of Toronto - EPAS
Date: Wed, 11 Nov 1992 23:37:13 GMT


I'm looking for Jonathon White @NYU whom I first came in contact with
through this BB (I lost his e-mail address after moving).  Jonathon,
are you aout there?
From: rnc@what.csl.uiuc.edu
Newsgroups: soc.college.grad
Subject: Acknowledging one's advisor
Date: 12 Nov 1992 03:27:26 GMT
Organization: Center for Reliable and High-Performance Computing, University of Illinois at Urbana-Champaign
Distribution: world
NNTP-Posting-Host: cheetah.csl.uiuc.edu

Having a difficult time acknowledging your advisor in your 
thesis....here is something which may help:

I consider it a great accomplishment to have completed this
dissertation under the direction of my advisor, Prof. <your advisor>.
After working under him for five years, I still find it hard
to believe that he is so knowledgeable in the field.
I was very fortunate to obtain advice from him during the course
of my graduate studies; it was truly a once-in-a-lifetime experience
to receive his support and encourgement.
Even after he moved 2000 miles away, I noticed no difference
in the level of assistance and guidance he offered me.
In my opinion, no advisor would have been better than <your advisor>.
Newsgroups: soc.college.grad,soc.college.gradinfo
From: hausner@qucis.queensu.ca (Alejo Hausner)
Subject: Declaring financial assets on application forms
Organization: M.Sc, C.S, Queen's, Kingston, Canada.
Distribution: na
Date: Thu, 12 Nov 1992 22:02:40 GMT

Hello, ladies and gentlemen,

My girlfriend and I are trying to get admitted to PhD programs in the
USA, in different disciplines.  We have a bit of money saved up, but
not enough (by far) to pay for the graduate program for both of us,
for the full 4-5 years.

Most American universities want a statement of how much money you have
available and are willing to spend.  What do you recommend?  Should we
declare half the money for each of us, all the money for one of us,
all the money for both of us (gambling that one of us will get full
funding)?   Will the schools hold us to our promise?  We can't do it
without at least some funding.

Are our chances of being admitted increased if we have some money, or
is it all based on merit.  I realize this sounds naive.

She and I are doing CS and philosophy, respectively.

Thanks in advance.

Alejo Hausner  (hausner@qucis.queensu.ca)