HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: dgreen@sti.com (Dan R. Greening)
Subject: Re: Decstation 5000/20 or 25, speed ?
Organization: Software Transformation, Inc.
Date: Sat, 10 Oct 1992 00:34:30 GMT

keinert@iastate.edu (Fritz Keinert) wrote:
> eddie@laslett.SLAC.Stanford.EDU (Xintian Eddie Lin) writes:
>>
>>  Can anyone tell me the speed of the above station in terms of SPECmark or
>>MFLOP ? I am trying to make a decision to buy one.
>
>Here is something our system administrator sent around some time ago:
>
>Workstation		SPEC	MIPS	Notes (mine)
>----------------------	------	------	---------------------------------------
>DECstation 5000/120	16.4	21.69	100 series more expandable
>
>SPARCstation IPC	13.5	15.70
>SPARCstation ELC	20.3	23.07
>SPARCstation IPX	24.4	26.68
>SPARCstation 2		25.0	28.50

We have a wild collection of workstations, and I would buy an IPC over a
120.  SPECs and MIPS are only part of the story.  We do lots of compilations
on IPC, Sparc 2, and DEC 120.  All using GCC.  The 120 is quite slow.

Moral: take a test drive with your applications.
-- 
____
\  /Dan Greening    Software Transformation   1601 Saratoga-Sunnyvale Rd, #100
 \/dgreen@sti.com   (408) 973-8081 x313       Cupertino, CA 95014
Newsgroups: biz.dec.workstations
From: keinert@iastate.edu (Fritz Keinert)
Subject: Re: Decstation 5000/20 or 25, speed ?
Organization: Iowa State University, Ames, IA
Date: Fri, 9 Oct 1992 02:41:06 GMT

In article <BvtG1B.9vu@unixhub.SLAC.Stanford.EDU> eddie@laslett.SLAC.Stanford.EDU (Xintian Eddie Lin) writes:
>
>Hi:
>  Can anyone tell me the speed of the above station in terms of SPECmark or
>MFLOP ? I am trying to make a decision to buy one.

Here is something our system administrator sent around some time ago:

DEC recently announced some new workstation models (also the 2100 &
3100 are no longer made).  I have a document (~50 pages) which
compares the performance of various workstations (DEC & others), so
FYI here is a real brief summary (contact me if you'ld like a copy of
the whole thing [in PostScript]).

SPEC  == SPECmark, geom mean of 10 `real' programs 1.0 = VAX11/780
MIPS  == Dhrystone MIPS, a synthetic benchmark


Workstation		SPEC	MIPS	Notes (mine)
----------------------	------	------	---------------------------------------
DECstation 2100		 8.3	11	Not in document, from my (fuzzy) memory
DECstation 3100		11.3	15	Not in document, from my (fuzzy) memory
DECstation 5000/20	16.3	21.60	base $3995 list (grey,less ISU discount)
DECstation 5000/25	19.1	26.70	base $4995 list (color, less...)
DECstation 5000/120	16.4	21.69	100 series more expandable
DECstation 5000/125	19.3	26.80
DECstation 5000/133	25.5	34.42
DECstation 5000/200	23.5	27.27	Original model, 200 series faster bus
DECstation 5000/240	32.4	43.00

SPARCstation IPC	13.5	15.70
SPARCstation ELC	20.3	23.07
SPARCstation IPX	24.4	26.68
SPARCstation 2		25.0	28.50

HP 9000/425t		11.0	25.87
HP 9000/425e		10.3	33.09
HP 9000/720		59.5	57.00

IBM RS/6000 320		32.8	29.64
IBM RS/6000 320H	41.2	37.10

SGI Pers IRIS 4D/25G	12.2	16.45
SGI 4D/35		31.1	33.00
SGI Indigo		26.3	31.27

NeXTStation		10.2	14.11

Compaq 386/33		not	 8.40
Compaq 483/33		avail	18.97

------------------------------------------------------------------------
SPEC results for SPARC IPC, ELC, IPX, 2; HP 720; IBM 320, 320H; Indigo
using Kuck & Associates' pre-compiler.


-- 
Fritz Keinert                             phone:  (515) 294-5223
Department of Mathematics                 fax:    (515) 294-5454
Iowa State University                     e-mail: keinert@iastate.edu
Ames, IA 50011
Newsgroups: biz.dec.workstations
From: ajc@pa.dec.com (AJ Casamento)
Subject: Re: Decstation 5000/20 or 25, speed ?
Organization: Digital Equipment Corporation
	<1992Oct9.024106.5401@news.iastate.edu> <BvvqxI.Arr@sti.com>
Date: 10 Oct 92 09:37:01




In article <BvvqxI.Arr@sti.com> dgreen@sti.com (Dan R. Greening) writes:


>> We have a wild collection of workstations, and I would buy an IPC over a
>> 120.  SPECs and MIPS are only part of the story.  We do lots of compilations
>> on IPC, Sparc 2, and DEC 120.  All using GCC.  The 120 is quite slow.

>> Moral: take a test drive with your applications.
>> -- 
>> ____
>> \  /Dan Greening  Software Transformation   1601 Saratoga-Sunnyvale Rd, #100
>>  \/dgreen@sti.com   (408) 973-8081 x313       Cupertino, CA 95014

Dan,

  Your moral is absolutely true. Benchmarks are just an attempt at normalizing
the performance of various competitor's machinery. The safest bet is ALWAYS to
test the configuration you want with the applications you want (preferably in
the environment you want to use it in). Unfortunately, this isn't always either
practical or possible.

	NOTE: An example of where the SPECmark rating doesn't tell the whole
	      story is that I've seen customers choose a system with a large
	      memory capacity over one with a higher floating point benchmark
	      because they could keep very large models in main memory instead
	      of paging out to a disk. The application benchmark doesn't always
	      go to the highest SPECmark machine.

  I have the same issue with the infamous "Entry Level Configurations" game.
Everybody quotes a configuration that has virtually nothing in it (and that
almost nobody would use) in order to establish their lowest priced version of
a particular model. Why? Because some customers (unfortunately a fairly high
number) have/use purchasing groups who only look at charts of models and entry
list prices in making their decisions.

  In any case, I second your opinion on the test drive. It's almost always more
likely to make for a satisfied customer. Which are my favorite kind, as they
are likely to be repeat customers... ;-)


				Thanx,
				  AJ


      **********************************************************************
      * AJ Casamento			"The question is not whether or    *
      * Digital's TRI/ADD Program	 not the opinions are mine; but    *
      * 529 Bryant Ave. PAG-2		 rather, which of my personalities *
      * Palo Alto, CA 94301-1616	 do they belong to?"		   *
      * 415.617.3460							   *
      * ajc@pa.dec.com  						   *
      **********************************************************************
Newsgroups: biz.dec.workstations
From: dgreen@sti.com (Dan R. Greening)
Subject: Re: Decstation 5000/20 or 25, speed ?
Organization: Software Transformation, Inc.
Date: Sat, 10 Oct 1992 19:13:42 GMT

ajc@pa.dec.com (AJ Casamento) wrote:
>In article <BvvqxI.Arr@sti.com> dgreen@sti.com (Dan R. Greening) writes:
>
>>> Moral: take a test drive with your applications.

>  I have the same issue with the infamous "Entry Level Configurations" game.
>Everybody quotes a configuration that has virtually nothing in it (and that
>almost nobody would use) in order to establish their lowest priced version of
>a particular model. Why? Because some customers (unfortunately a fairly high
>number) have/use purchasing groups who only look at charts of models and entry
>list prices in making their decisions.

Yes.  Here is an example:  I have an HP 9000/710, very high MIPS rating
(36?  I forget).  It is as slow as our DEC 120.  Why?  Because HPUX/vue
is a memory pig, and because HPUX 8.07 has a poor paging algorithm, and
because we "only" have 16MB in it ("only" 16MB in the DEC too).

You can knock down the MIPS by a factor of 1/3 or more if you don't have
enough RAM.

My ordering preference, taking into account

1. available public domain sources.
2. available commercial packages.
3. MIPS.
4. attention to customer and compatibility problems.
5. cost.
6. bureaucracy (by this I usually mean "am I nickle-and-dimed to death by
   ordering software and hardware to make my box work?").
7. marketshare

are:  Sun, DEC, HP, IBM.  HP and IBM have the hot boxes, but the other 
factors are a lose.  DEC loses because of 3, 4, and 6.  Sun loses because
of 3.  HP loses because of 1, 4, 5, and 6.  IBM loses because of 1, 4, 5, 
and 6.

DEC's Alpha program will fix 3.  Someday maybe DEC will fix 6.  I had a
terrible run-in because of #4 (X11R5 didn't support my monochrome 120).
Despite my support contract, no one at DEC would take care of my problem
even though the fix is available internally.  Someone would call me every
3 months or so and ask "did anyone ever solve your problem?"  No.  A
worthless thing, my support contract.  I terminated it.

I like DEC's contributions to openness.  I hope they do well.  I wish I
could put them at #1, but not yet.
-- 
____
\  /Dan Greening    Software Transformation   1601 Saratoga-Sunnyvale Rd, #100
 \/dgreen@sti.com   (408) 973-8081 x313       Cupertino, CA 95014
Newsgroups: biz.dec
From: scs@iti.org (Steve Simmons)
Subject: Re: DECnews/Additions to OEM Family of Disk Drives
Organization: Industrial Technology Institute
Date: Thu, 8 Oct 1992 01:53:20 GMT

price@mrktng.enet.dec.com ("Dave Price, UNIX Press Relations  07-Oct-1992 1831") writes:

>Evaluation units of the DSP3160 will be priced at $2100 TBD . . .
>The DSP5350 evaluation units will be shipped . . . at $3800 TBD per unit . . .

I'll bite -- what does TBD mean?  "To Big Dealers"? :-)
-- 
scs:  Tied for last on the Zwicky list with `zwicky'.
Newsgroups: biz.dec
From: BA.CGB@forsythe.stanford.edu (Clif Baker)
Subject: Family History tracking software needed.
Organization: Stanford University, California, USA
Date: Thu, 15 Oct 1992 19:56:24 GMT

Folks,

Do any of you know where to obtain software that can help you track
family history?  If so, please drop me a note.

Thanks!

Clif
From: sandi@csd4.csd.uwm.edu (Sandra L Naylor)
Newsgroups: biz.comp.software
Subject: procom
Date: 13 Oct 1992 13:56:41 GMT
Organization: Computing Services Division, University of Wisconsin - Milwaukee
NNTP-Posting-Host: 129.89.7.4
Originator: sandi@csd4.csd.uwm.edu

I am trying to find a copy of public domain procom.  Where might I find one
and how do I go about getting it?  Thanks for any help you might be able to
give.


Xref: sparky biz.comp.telebit:965 comp.dcom.modems:14854
From: wb8foz@skybridge.SCL.CWRU.Edu (David Lesher)
Newsgroups: biz.comp.telebit,comp.dcom.modems
Subject: flow control weirdness on WB
Date: 10 Oct 1992 12:51:42 GMT
Organization: NRK Clinic for habitual NetNews abusers - Beltway Annex
Reply-To: wb8foz@skybridge.scl.cwru.edu (David Lesher)
NNTP-Posting-Host: skybridge.scl.cwru.edu

A weird problem has recently showed up on my WB.

The flow control seems to stop working, without cause.

The history is this. I took it on a trip with me (laptops are nice, but
2400 is not...) and it worked fine. Except, at one point, it would not
work. The first 5 lights came on, but nothing else happened. I grumbled
about 'warranty' and came back a hour later to find everything fine.

When I got home, everything was great, but I seemed to have no flow
control. Incoming news would overflow the PeeSea and trash some part of
the screen. I checked both the Procomm 2.4.3 settings (unchanged) and
the WB ones.

Resetting things helped not. Finally, after resetting the WB to a
different port speed, changing Procomm to match, and going back again,
everything was fine.

Now the problem has recurred. To add to my confusion, ^S/^Q from the
keyboard seems to work. That might indicate that Procomm is falling
down on the job. But last time, exiting & restarting it did not help.
Neither did diddling with its setup options.

Any ideas before I bother Telebit tech support?

WorldBlazer - SA - Version LA5.00W- Active Configuration  
 B1  E1  L1  M1  Q0  T   V1  X2  Y0 
&C0 &D2 &G0 &J0 &L0 &Q0 &R3 &S0 &T4 &X0
S000=0   S001=0   S002=43  S003=13  S004=10  S005=8   S006=2   S007:60
S008=2   S009=6   S010=14  S011:100 S012=50  S018=0   S025=5   S026=1 
S038=0   S041=0   S045=0   S046=0   S047=4   S048=0   S050=0   S051=255
S056=17  S057=19  S058=3   S059:15  S060=0   S061:0   S062=15  S063=0 
S064=0   S068=255 S069=0   S090=0   S092=0   S093=8   S094=1   S100=0
S104=0   S105=1   S111:10  S112=1   S151=4   S155=0   S180=2   S181=1
S183=25  S190=1   S191=7   S253=10  S254=255 S255=255                          
--
A host is a host from coast to coast..wb8foz@skybridge.scl.cwru.edu
& no one will talk to a host that's close..........................
Unless the host (that isn't close).........................pob 1433
is busy, hung or dead....................................20915-1433
From: dennis@nebulus.ampr.ab.ca (Dennis Breckenridge VE6TCP)
Newsgroups: biz.comp.telebit
Subject: WorldBlazers and TB2500's
Summary: What is wrong with them
Keywords: modems,PEP
Date: 9 Oct 92 05:20:11 GMT
Organization: Alchemy Mindworks, Edmonton, Alberta


Yet some other details in the WB vs. TB2500 saga. 

When my upstream newsfeeder calls me we nail up a PEP connection and
start transfering for 45 seconds and he drops the line. The upstream
site is a WB. Another interesting situation is a friend of mine calls
Long Distance to two different WB's with rev 5 roms and no connection
is established. He then calls my TB2500 and gets the same thing, with
one difference. After he gets the RRING, and starts protocol negotiation
he gets a BUSY??? More black Telebit magic from the frozen north!
If I call my upstream site we can nail a connection up for hours.
-- 
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Dennis S. Breckenridge         dennis@nebulus.ampr.ab.ca         VE6TCP/VE6NOS
       You know I will always be faithful ... to the current trend!
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: ziegast@uunet.uu.net (Eric W. Ziegast)
Newsgroups: biz.comp.telebit
Subject: TurboPEP - theoretical "maximum"
Date: 9 Oct 1992 14:14:56 -0400
Organization: UUNET Technologies - Falls Church, VA
Distribution: world
NNTP-Posting-Host: godzilla.uu.net

I've been seeing a couple postings lately where people consider the
theoretical maximum for TurboPEP spoofed UUCP g(3,64) transfers to
be ~2100 cps.  I've done this myself (so I'm not flaming anyone).
The number is derived from:

	23000 bits   1 byte        64 data bytes
	---------- * ------- * -------------------- = 2102 cps
	    sec      10 bits   70 transmitted bytes

This analogy would probably be correct if the line was asynchronous
(return packets don't count) and it was using some type of parity
and stop bit mechanism (giving 10 bits/byte).

But in PEP, these assumptions don't hold true (from what I've heard
about how it works).  The 23000 bps is the rated speed in one direc-
tion.  If there is data sent in the reverse (eg. 'g' protocol ACKs),
some channels would have to be allocated to send data in the reverse
direction, thus taking away from the data rate in the sending direc-
tion.  Then again, maybe the spoofing takes away the need for acks
over the PEP connection.  Also, the data is probably sent without
any stop or parity bits (I really don't know; I'm making an educated
guess here) but is sent with ECC bits instead.

So, how does one really calculate maximum throughput for spoofed
TurboPEP UUCP g(3,64) without compression?  The only guide I have is
claims from the past that the maximum data throughput was 1400 to
1450 cps for plain PEP (which was rated at 18031 bps in one direc-
tion).  Using that factor (.0804 for 1450 cps) applied to 23000 bps,
one gets about 1850 cps.

I find it interesting that I have seen some non-compressed transfers
around 2000-2025 cps on large files (like large ls-lR.Z files).
Magic?  No, my non-scientific method is also likely to be flawed.

So, how *does* one actually compute TurboPEP (and PEP) throughput?
If someone has already answered this somewhere, please roast me via
e-mail.
--
Eric Ziegast
ziegast@uunet.uu.net
Newsgroups: biz.comp.services
From: IMAGING.CLUB@OFFICE.WANG.COM ("Imaging Club")
Newsgroups: biz.comp.services
Subject: Wang OPEN/image, Interoperability & Network Integration at Networld
Date: 7 Oct 92 23:23:50 GMT
Organization: Mail to News Gateway at Wang Labs

Wang will be showing its OPEN/image document-imaging product line,
along with its network integration products and services at the
NETWORLD 92 show in Dallas October 13, 14 and 15.  Hours are from
10:00 am to 5:00 pm, except for 10:00 to 4:00 on the last day.

There will be speakers at the Wang booth discussing document imaging on
NetWare LANs, along with interoperability of different protocol stacks.
There will be time for questions and answers after these 15 to 20 minute
seminars.  The Wang booth is number 3637 and is located on the second level,
almost in the very center.  It will have ample seating for the large
audiences expected.

Michael.Willett@OFFICE.Wang.com
Newsgroups: biz.comp.hardware
From:  master@scanlar.msk.su (Smirnov Sergey S.)
Subject: Private company in Moscow is looking for supplier of "second hand" IBM PC hardware
Date: Thu, 8 Oct 1992 15:04:14 GMT
Reply-To: master@scanlar.msk.su
Organization: scanlar ltd

      Young private company in Moscow is looking for the western company to
discuss the opportunity of selling "second hand" IBM PC hardware in Russia.
Also we are ready to discuss all proposals in the sphere of computer business.

Newsgroups: biz.comp.hardware
From: cybercub@milton.u.washington.edu (David Holland)
Subject: Acecat 5"x5" Digitizer Review & Questions
Summary: ..
Keywords: Digitizer Tablet Review Driver
Organization: University of Washington
Date: Wed, 14 Oct 1992 06:49:53 GMT

UPS just dropped off my brand-spankin' new Acecad "Acecat" digitizer
tablet yesterday...   it's a 5-inch square active area digitzer tablet
with a stylus pointer (like a pen) - it's pretty cool so far - the 
resolution is great, and the tracking is neato... the windows drivers
are ok too -- there is one question I'm hoping somebody here can
answer -- I would like to use this tablet with Autodesk Animator Pro
at school, but the drivers that come with it are "ADI" drivers, supposedly thesework with Autocad, etc.  Anyway, the Microsoft mouse emulation mode works 
alright with Animator, but I can't get it to do "absolute" (tablet) mode
operation in Ani. Pro... does anyone out there know of a source of pub.
domain/shareware drivers for this thing??  While I'm at it, what about
24-bit or hi-color card drivers for Animator Pro??  It's user interface is
geared toward 24-bit color (with 0-255 range sliders for RGB values)...
hmmm....    Thanks in advance for the advice!   :)
.
.
/

                              CyberCub `-_-'

Newsgroups: biz.comp.hardware
From: tiger@netcom.com (Tiger Zhao)
Subject: 486DX33 System Upgrade to 66MHz Information
Keywords: upgrade, DX66
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services  (408 241-9760 guest) 
Date: Mon, 12 Oct 1992 17:17:28 GMT


** Upgrade your 486DX-33 System to 66MHz without changing motherboard!  
                            For $549.00! 
   (For Wilder Research Exchange Program Fund-Raising, non-profit)

The new Intel 486DX-33 OverDrive CPU allows you double you system speed 
from 486DX-33 to 66MHz without changing your motherboard or oscillator 
crystal speed. If you already have a 486DX-33MHz based system, simply 
replace your original CPU with OverDrive CPU, and it's ready to fly.  
The new Overdrive CPU has internal clock-doubler, which "accelerates 
both integer and math performance across all DOS, windows, OS/2 and UNIX 
applications--from Auto CAD to WordPerfect". The upgrade package includes 
a CPU-remover tool, a heat-sinker(considering some existing 486DX-33 
system do not have good heat-dissipation environment), an installation 
manual, and a demonstration and diagnostic diskette.

**  Reliable Quality And Lifetime Warranty backed directly by Intel 
The OverDrive CUP is manufactured and tested according to Intel's 
rigorous standard to  ensure the highest quality and reliability, the 
Intel OverDrive package is suitable for current existing 33MHz Intel486 
DX CPU-based systems without an OverDrive processor socket. The 
OverDrive has for a lifetime warranty directly from Intel for service 
and support, (compared to mininal warranty of  486DX2-66 which is OEM 
version and warranted only by OEM maker/dealer).
   
   Customer Support:   (800)-321-4044  in US and Canada,     
                       (503) 629-7354 International
   FaxBACK information (800)-525-3019 in US and Canada

**  Great Price, fabulous trade in rebate program available
The price of a  486DX-33 OverDrive is $749.00.  Trade-in rebate of $200 
dollars will be issued to you if you would send in your used, functional 
486DX-33 CPU to Athena* with 30 days of the purchase.  And a check of 
$200.00 will be mailed to the buyer within 45 days of receiving your 
trade in CPU. (prove of purchase necessary). 

Order Information:  
   *  For more detail, call Athena Solution Sales at 415-962-8686
   *  Fax your purchase order to 415-969-3361 (24Hour line) 
      ( Sorry no "net terms" )
   *  Resellers in California need to submit resell number, 
   *  COD cashier's or certified check accepted 
   *  COD Company check requires credit information be sent to Accounting 
      Dept. in advance for credit approval (must use Athena standard 
      credit application form).
   *  Available limited time only.
              
 
Newsgroups: biz.comp.hardware
From: roman.yarish@rose.com (roman yarish)
Subject: Wanted Test Equip.
Organization: Rose Media Inc, Toronto, Ontario.
Distribution: biz
Date: Tue, 13 Oct 1992 02:41:17 GMT
X-Gated-By: Usenet <==> RoseMail Gateway (v1.70)


Date Entered: 10-12-92 21:34

Wanted used surplus test equip: scopes +50mhz, spectrum analyzers, etc...
Also looking for commercial or military communications equip.
Working or not.

State price and condition.

roman.yarish@rose.com
---
   RoseReader 1.70 P002254: Please dial right now.  We have operators waiting...
   RM 2.00 : RoseNet<=>Usenet Gateway : Rose Media 416-733-2285
Newsgroups: biz.comp.hardware
Subject: WANTED:COLOR MONITOR
From: td1@RandB.CC.MsState.Edu (Tahir Dildar)
Date: Tue, 6 Oct 1992 14:01:50 GMT
Organization: Mississippi State University
Keywords: COLOR MONITOR
Summary: WANTED:SVGA or VGA color MONITOR

HI there....
   Have U got a SVGA or VGA color monitor and u r planning to sell it
If so please let me know. I am interested in buying a used color monitor
for a reasonable price. If ur monitor is nonInterlaces it would be a +
towards the price that I'll pay for it.
Please respond at the following Address.........

td1@ra.msstate.edu                         601-325-5749

Newsgroups: biz.comp.hardware