From: knapp@spot.Colorado.EDU (David Knapp)
Subject: Re: The Disease is Cropping Up All Over, It Seems
Organization: University of Colorado, Boulder
Date: Wed, 8 Apr 1992 20:25:35 GMT

In article <1992Apr8.063637.11999@midway.uchicago.edu> rivk@midway.uchicago.edu writes:
>>
>>Wait a second. I can understand why a pro-lifer could easily blend this
>>into the abortion debate. I believe that many of the pro-lifers see
>>the abortion issue as just another case of genocide. A genocide against
>>unborn children. I don't agree with them, but I can understand this 
>>connection. The slaughtering of Jews, Gays, Protestants, and those that
>>Hitler determined to be his enemies may to them be just as bad as
>>their preceived genocide of (as they claim...millions of unborn). 
>>
>>Personally, I can't see how they could equate the abortion of fetuses
>>with the death of live, breathing, thinking people, in germany, or
>>cambodia, or wherever. But then I don't equate the value of a fetus
>>as being == to the value of a born individual.
>>
>>There feelings are valid, but misguided.
>
>You clearly didn't go and look where I've already said this eight
>times this week, so I'll repeat it here: Nobody has ever yet come up
>with any remote indication that this kind of garbage does them any
>good whatsoever in their stated cause.

Nora, why are you *concerned* about what is doing them any good?

I mean, if you are debating *against* them, why would you *help* them
better organize their strategies?

For that matter, the person above never *said* it 'does them any good'
All I heard was that he could understand the emotional anology provided
a person does believe that abortion is genocide.  What's the big 
deal? Geez, go have a beer and relax.

> What it does do is, for reasons
>you *will* have to go find on the other thread; I'm tired and I've
>had to say this too goddamned many times,


You don't *have* to be saying this. This one area where 'freedom of choice'
is still quite alive.


> make it slowly more and
>more likely that the next time a set of folks who are trying to
>commit genocide -- against whatever race they may choose -- appears,
>those of us trying to blow the whistle on them will have an impossible
>job and they will succeed in killing all the Jews, or all the blacks,
>or all the remotely uncloseted gays, or all the Arabs, or all the
>*whatever*, because nobody's going to listen to us -- after all,
>isn't it no worse than abortion and all those other things we don't
>care much about, so there's no need to worry?


Somehow, the current (and past) lack of attention to genocide would make
it seem like you are too late.


> AKA people who claim
>to be pro-life are hurting some people's chance for survival, while
>not saving even one fetus by this tactic. This is not being passionately
>pro-life, this is being at best stupid, and at worst, as in Kellmeyer's
>case, actively and deliberately genocidal. 
>
>Add to this the fact that very few people have tried to suggest that
>what people say in arguments on the net save or destroy any more fetuses,
>whereas there *are* a number of survivors of the death camps who read
>the newsgroups (I don't know whether any of them follow this one in
>particular, and for their sake I fervently hope not), and they have
>already put up with more in one lifetime than anyone should put them
>through. There is no good that can come of the "they're Nazis" tirade.
>There's only more pain, and more death, even than the pro-lifers are
>convinced already goes on. If they are truly pro-life, for those of
>us sometimes considered subhuman along with their beloved unborn babies,
>they will stop making our deaths more likely and our lives more scarred,
>to no purpose.


While I don't like that example either (abortionists = nazis) I think it
would be valuable for you to be able to step off your soap box for just 
a moment and try to look at how things may appear to *others*. Not just 
what is *correct*.

Several of the pro-life persons here have graciously agreed to tone 
down their sarcasm and finger pointing. It would be a good idea for us
to oblige.



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Corrected .sig for those who did not see the absurdity of the original one.
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