HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: tomk@netcom.com (Thomas H. Kunich)
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles
Subject: Re: top five innovations
Date: 2 Sep 92 22:15:16 GMT
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services (408 241-9760 guest)

In article <9209022045.AA02783@hplomg.hpl.hp.com> BRANDT_JOBST/HP1900_01@HPLOMG.HPL.HP.COM writes:
>Tom, from earlier experience with your responses it is evident that you
>just can't leave a dead horse lie.  You imply that there is an advantage
>to using BioPace and that we, the majority of riders, have overlooked it.

Jobst, sometimes I wonder if you live in the same world we do.
The statistics that Shimano used were inferred from several 
articles in all of the major bicyle rags in about '89 or so.
At that time Shimano was trying to develop a group for the 
'average' road rider and was interested in having some sort of
market distinction. None of these is deceptive nor stupid. This
is very simple marketing that any first year student learns to use.

Biopace _does_ seem to have a positive effect at very low cadence.
Mountain bikes used the 26 ring to pretty good effect. Had there
not been mechanical difficulties with making a 24 they probably could
have retained that market indefinitely.

BTW, many riders had noticed this. This isn't an implication, but
a fact.

>You are bending over backward to exonerate Shimano but it won't work.
>If I believe you then Shimano must be stupid.  Have your choice, either
>they performed "somewhat incorrect research" in the presence of
>overwhelming evidence throughout the history of odd variable velocity
>foot motion, or they were deceptive as Harry Phinney proposed. 

Shimano hardly needs exoneration from anything with 80% of the
components market. 'Somewhat incorrect' is the correct term since
the only problem with it was that the 'average rider's cadence' was
assumed to be the average _japanese_ rider's cadence.

In Japan, many japanese commute via bicycle and have very low cadences
of around 45 RPM. In America bicyclists are generally recreational/fitness
riders who are going for a much higher performance and spin much
higher. What works for the japanese commuter simply doesn't
work for the american rider.

As for overwhelming evidence -- maybe you can find some? All of 
those 'scientific' theories were sound but the tests were generally
completely flawed -- as evidenced by the football shaped rings
most commonly on sale.

Not everyone in this world is out to screw you personally Jobst.
Most people are trying to make a living and Shimano is at least 
supplying high quality at low prices and most people agree with them.
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles
From: klee@wsl.dec.com (Ken Lee)
Subject: Re: Table of Grades of Selected Roads in the Santa Cruz Mtns.
Reply-To: klee@wsl.dec.com
Organization: DEC Western Software Laboratory
Distribution: ba
Date: Mon, 31 Aug 92 20:52:11 GMT

|> What the post fails to mention is that the numbers reported here
|> represent the grade for a short SECTION of road and not the AVERAGE
|> grade.  Because of this, I find this table very misleading and I think,
|> if interpreted incorrectly(which will most likely happen, because no
|> real clear explanation was given for the length over which the measurements
|> apply) it will lead to people getting a false impression as to the
|> average gradient of the ascents in the Bay Area.

Most of you probably know this, but for those who don't, the *Roads to Ride*
books have pretty accurate average grade figures for most popular bicycling
roads in the bay area.  Yes, as Bruce states, the *Roads to Ride* average
grades are somewhat lower than Ray Hosler's 100" grades.  Still, I think the
100" figures are interesting, if you know what they represent.

-- 
Ken Lee
DEC Western Software Laboratory, Palo Alto, Calif.
Internet: klee@wsl.dec.com
uucp: uunet!decwrl!klee
From: johnn@hpfcso.FC.HP.COM (John Nicol)
Date: Wed, 2 Sep 1992 19:38:06 GMT
Subject: Re: Rack for Honda Accord & Toyota 4-Runner
Organization: Hewlett-Packard, Fort Collins, CO, USA
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles

Phil,

I could not find a rack for the 4-Runner rails, I did not
look too hard since I already had a lot of Yakama bike and ski 
parts.  

I used a Yakama gutterless mount and it met with complete disaster,
carrying 4 bikes the weight and wind pressure created large dents in
the roof.

I converted to bolt on brackets and a Yakama gutter mount, this has
worked great for bikes, skis, boat, lumber, etc.   The only problem
being that the bars are at least 4" higher than they need to be!

Lessons learned.

1)  The 4-Runner luggage rack was a waist!

2)  The Yakama gutterless mounts will not carry heavy loads at 
    high speeds.

3)  If I could find a way to mount Yakama type Bars at only 2 to 4"
    above the roof of the car I would by it.

4)  Why didn't Toyota come out with a "real" roof carrier for its
    utility vehicle?
From: marcus@sun.pcl.ac.uk (Marcus Harvey)
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles
Subject: Re: Gas Taxes R Us
Date: 26 Aug 92 10:38:15 GMT
Organization: Polytechnic of Central London

In article <1992Aug24.104852.24478@osf.org> david@postman.gr.osf.org (David George) writes:
>In article <1992Aug23.201417.1857@bitrot.in-berlin.de>, thomas@bitrot.in-berlin.de (Thomas Driemeyer) writes:
>|>  Here in Berlin... The average speed in the entire city is
>|> a bit over 20 mph, which isn't a lot more than what I can do on a bicycle.
>
>In London the Department of Transport estimates the average speed as 8 mph.  There is no rush hour anymore, even at 3am you can be stuck in jams !  I don't know about Berlin but in Munich the average speed was probably about 10mph, again the term 'rush hour' doesn't really apply in the City Centre. 
>
I think the 'rush' in 'rush hour' is taken in the spirit of American Football
'rushes' - as soon as those krazy kars spot half a mile of clearish straight
road they jam on the gas for a burst of speed and then jam on the brakes at
the next lights. This doesn't actually get them home faster than driving at
a reasonable speed and costs them in brake pads etc. But hey! Why'd they make
my car capable of 0-60 in .3 seconds with a max speed three times the legal
limit if they wanted me to drive safely?

>As a simple guide any city with a bike courier service probably also has a similar average speed for bikes and motorised tranport.
>David
>
>p.s. 
>I just compared my commute times here in rural France.
>Car: 15 minutes (outside of rush hour).  Journey distance: 8 miles.  4 miles on Freeway with 85mph speed limit.
>Bicycle: 30 minutes.  Journey distance 6.5 miles.  3 miles on cycle paths. 3 on highway.  Start height 214m.  Destination height 565m.
>Of course with that height difference I get a lot fitter cycling !

I don't have a car (I've never seen the point in London, though plenty do, and
I haven't passed my driving test yet anyway!) but my commute time by bike is
the same as when I got the tube at approx. 30 mins for a 7 mile journey all in
the inner city (Brixton to Baker St.). Of course, my bike time is always 30 mins
whereas the tube time was usually 30 mins and frequently 40-120mins!

BTW, the only reason I'm learning to drive is so I can get me, my friends, and
our mountain bikes out to the countryside!

Marcus Harvey, Polytechnic of Central London IRS
marcus@uk.ac.pcl.sun - JANET  marcus%sun.pcl.ac.uk@ukacrl - BITNET/EARN

                                                          ...Bubble Up!
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles
From: morris@samson.bnr.ca (Morris Bernstein)
Subject: Re: VO2 max
Reply-To: bnrmtl!morris@larry.mcrcim.mcgill.ca
Organization: Bell Northern Research Montreal, Canada.
Date: Fri, 28 Aug 92 16:52:55 GMT

In article <1992Aug26.210532.7756@hpcvusn.cv.hp.com> harry@cv.hp.com (Harry Phinney) writes:
>scott@eggneb.astro.ucla.edu (scott evans) writes:
praetzel@marconi.uwaterloo.ca (Eric Praetzel)
Ed Pavelchek   ekp@mcnc.org
and others write:

	Very clear explanations of VO2max, anerobic threshold, and the
	metabolic processes associated with exercise.

Thank-you gentle persons for taking the time to clear up this person's
confusion.  I am now much more enlightened (and it didn't hurt as much
as being hit over the head :-).

Just to emphasize the one point that had (but no longer has) me
confused:

	VO2 Max (i.e. maximum rate of volume of O2 utilized by the
	body [per unit of body mass]) does *not* occur at the anerobic
	threshold (heartrate).

	The anerobic threshold is the point on the curve where the
	anerobic metabolism begins producing more waste product
	(lactic acid) than the body can consume in a steady-state
	reaction.

	Thus, the aerobic and anerobic metabolic processes operate
	(more or less) independently when producing power for the
	muscles.

	In general, calculation of VO2 Max is done by *estimating*
	certain key variables (max heart rate, anerobic threshold
	heart rate) and *extrapolating* from measurements based on the
	estimates.

	For most amateur athletes, VO2 Max is little more meaningful
	than one's horoscope sign.


I feel much better now.


Morris

--
Morris Bernstein		 phone:	(514) 765-8275
Bell Northern Research Ltd. 	 fax:	(514) 765-0500
worldnet: bnrmtl!morris@larry.mcrcim.mcgill.edu
"Knowlege is a mind-expanding drug."
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles
From: UCPL081@UNLVM.UNL.EDU
Subject: Hyperglide chain replacement: suggestions wanted
Organization: University of Nebraska
Date: Sun, 23 Aug 92 22:33:49 CST

I have Shimano Deore DX HG components on my mtn-bike and would like to
know what other brands of chains I can use with my 7sp HG cassett.  I don't
like HG chains because you can't put them back together easily.  One must
use the special replacement pin and then break off the end.  This, I've been
told, is a tricky job even for mechanics so home-do-it-yourselfer's are advised
not to try it.  I want to try some of the other chains out there.   I like to
break the chain to clean it, so I want to know if anyone has experience in
using Daido's chain (which I believe has a special link that eases chain
breaking for cleaning or replacement) or any other non-shimano chain that
works with HG but is a lot less of a hassle to work with.  Thanks
Conrad -----------------
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles
From: ovr@vipunen.hut.fi (Otto-Ville Ronkainen)
Subject: Re: FAQ for new subgroups?
Reply-To: ovr@vipunen.hut.fi (Otto-Ville Ronkainen)
Organization: Helsinki University of Technology
Date: Mon, 31 Aug 1992 17:04:23 GMT

In article <9208292200.AA06028@hplomg.hpl.hp.com> BRANDT_JOBST/HP1900_01@hplomg.hpl.hp.com writes:
>> Before I go thru the work of splitting the FAQ up into separate FAQs for
>> each new subgroup in rec.bicycles,
>
>Please don't even think of it.  The file would be useless because the
>reader often doesn't even know what to look for and therefore would never
>find the item in some cases.  Besides, where do you cut?

On the other hand, dividing the FAQ or at least labeling individual topics
"soc", "racing", "tech", "marketplace", "rides" or "misc" (did I forget
any?) would give some guidelines to prospective posters regarding proper
newsgroup use. And, sure, if it's so difficult, feel free to give a topic
several labels (eg. leg shaving could be "racing" or "misc").

Just my 10 penni{.
-- 
Ott-Vill R___________________        Nyrxfnagreva_xngh wn Xhavaxnna_xngh
ovr@vipunen.hut.fi                           ba erunovyvgbvgnin!
From: msw10@nepenthe.as (Michael S. Wong)
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles
Subject: Re: Smoke/Dart, Ground Control
Date: 26 Aug 92 00:19:27 GMT
Reply-To: msw10@nepenthe.as
Organization: Sun Microsystems


In article Cy9@news.cso.uiuc.edu, fyhg8422@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (Frederick Y Huang) writes:
>truesdel@ics.uci.edu (R. Scott Truesdell) writes:
>
>
[review of Z-Max and Smoke/Dart deleted]
>
>BTW, can anyone explain to me the difference between Z-Max and Z-Max WCS tires?
>I've seen them listed together in some mail order places.  It's not just a 
>difference in bead material, is it?
>

Ritchey's WCS tire are made of a "lower density compound" that is lighter than their
other tires. The WCS Z-Max is something like 50g lighter/tire.

Michael Wong
msw10@amdahl.com
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles,rec.bicycles.rides
From: dfl@panix.com (Danny O'Bedlam)
Subject: The New York CENTURY - September 13th (repost)
Summary: all over New York City!
Date: Thu, 27 Aug 1992 07:20:36 GMT
Organization: Panix, (New Yawk City)
Keywords: century,benefit



==========================================================================
   Transportation Alternatives presents the 3rd Annual NYC CENTURY Ride
					on
			    Sunday, September 13th, 1992

A panoramic tour through four boroughs to raise money for Transportation
Alternatives, NYC's bicycle advocacy organization.

Bicycles, tricycles, rollerskates, recumbents: all human-powered wheels
are welcome to join this spectacular tour of New York's skylines, green-
ways and neighborhoods.

The NYC Century captures the cultural and geographic diversity of New York.

The route links Manhattan, Brooklyn, Queens, and the Bronk via NYC streets,
bicycle paths, parks and greenways.

30 Miles of the Century are on car-free paths.

The 12, 35, 55 and 75 mile routes are shortcuts of the larger Century route.
Challenge yourself with a longer goal- you can always switch to a shorter 
route along the way.

The course will be fully marked and accompanied by Marshals.  There will be
no street closings.

Sunday September 13:  Rain or shine -
	REPORT to Union Square, Broadway & 17th Street, Manhattan to receive
an Urban Century Surival Kit and begin your adventure!  Route maps and turn
sheets issued at the start line will guide you through the day.  Arrive at
6AM for the 100 mile course; at 7, 8, 9 and 10AM for the 77, 55, 35, and
12 mile routes respectively.

ECO-FAIR:
	On Century Day, Union Square will feature an environmental festival,
with live music, food, crafts and displays of the newest human-powered
vehicles, 11AM - 7PM.

Collect TAX DEDUCTABLE contributions from friends, family, co-workers, and
teachers.  Qualify for prizes by raising as much money as possible!  Your
sponsors can contribute a fixed sum or pledge an amount per mile.  Let
sponsors know you'll collect their contributions BEFORE the ride.

Mail your sponsor form and money by Friday Sept 4, 1992 to Transportation
Alternatives, 92 St Marks Pl, NYC, 10009.  Make Checks payable to
Transportation Alternatives.

Minimum Collection:
	$35 per participant; $40 on Century Day.  This donation gives you
an Urban Century Survival Kit, route map, t-shirt, and snacks.

to Register for this ride please contact Transportation Alternatives
92 St Marks Pl, NYC NY, 10009.   212 475 4600. 

============================================================================
-- 
***********************************************************************
* Danny O'Bedlam  = dfl@panix.com = cmcl2!panix!dfl = Danny Lieberman *
* PO Box 3131 Church St Station, New Yawk, New Yawk, 10008-3131 (usa) *
***********************************************************************
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles
From: blp@cypress.com (Bruce Prickett/PROM)
Subject: Re: QUESTION about aero bars
Organization: Cypress Semiconductor, San Jose, CA
Date: Thu, 27 Aug 1992 21:42:15 GMT
Expires: Sun, 27 Sep 1992 07:00:00 GMT

In article <1992Aug25.100911.8781@iccgcc.decnet.ab.com>, erdmans@iccgcc.decnet.ab.com writes...
>Hello there,
> 
>I am thinking about purchasing SCOTT Lemond II Clip-On Bars.
> 
>The bars come in 4 different extension sizes, 11, 12, 13, or 14 inches.
> 
>Does a method exist where I can measure my arms or another relevant part
>of my body to determine which extension size would be best for me?
> 
>Thank you for any information you can provide.
> 
>Scott

I think its appropriate that you want to buy the SCOTT aero bars ;-)

When I bought mine, the box had a mark for measuring your for-arm length.
If your arm matched the mark, the bar was the right length.
Of course, if you are buying mail order, you're out of luck.
I don't have my old box, but if anyone still does, maybe they
can post the length for a given size.

SCOTT Lemond bars are sized by length, not by width.
I use them because the Profiles I bought had a fixed width that
was too wide for my narrow drop handle-bars. With the separate
bars on the SCOTTs, I can mount the bars on the slight curve
of my cross-bar.

	Bruce Prickett
	blp@cypress.com
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles
From: chrisl@stpaul.gov (Chris A Lyman)
Subject: Re: LeMond's Restaurant in MN
Organization: City of Saint Paul Public Works
Date: Thu, 3 Sep 1992 15:57:46 GMT


ehousey@urbana.mcd.mot.com (Ed Housey) writes:

> I am planning on being in the Minneapolis area soon, and would like
> to see LeMond's restaurant.  Anyone happen to know the name of it,
> and where it's located?  I've seen on a map that Wayzata is about 12
> miles west of Minneapolis.

The restaurant is called the Tour de France (natch); the location is
on the border between Edina and Minneapolis, near the corner of 50th
Street and France Avenue.  The address is something like 4915 France.

I ate there about a year ago; the food is out of this world, but so are
the prices!  If you want to partake, you'll need a reservation.  The
only cycling memorabilia on display that I recall is the yellow jersey
Lemond wore in the 1989 Tour.

Happy traveling!

-- 
Chris Lyman  /  email: chrisl@pwcs.stpaul.gov  /  #include <std.disclaimers.h>
"No I don't know that atheists should be considered as citizens, nor should
they be considered patriots.  This is one nation under God."  --  George Bush
From: pcc@s1.gov (Philip C. Cox)
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles
Subject: Rack for Honda Accord & Toyota 4-Runner
Date: 28 Aug 92 15:49:40 GMT
Organization: llnl

I would like to get a rack that would fit on my honda, and
the tracks fit on my toyota roof rack? If anyone knows of 
how to (which brand name fits), I would appreciate it.

Phil
-- 
***********************************************************************
* Philip C. Cox          |  L.L.N.L.                                  *
* E-Mail: pcc@s1.gov     |  P.O. Box 808 L-542                        *
* VOICE: (415) 423-8316  |  Livermore, CA 94550                       *
*=====================================================================*
*                     Quote of the week :                             *
*                                                                     *
* "Many a man aims at nothing, and hits it with remarkable percision" *
*                                             - unknown               *
***********************************************************************
From: cato@proxxi.se (Christopher Cato)
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles
Subject: Alpinestars Al Mega XT 403 EOSystem VariLite
Date: 31 Aug 92 17:37:37 GMT
Organization: proxxi

can anyone tell me about the origins of this xcellent bicycle,
as I am a happy owner of the named model, I would also like to know about the
origins of it, and also about other models from the same designers.
-- 
	       /Christopher Cato/
	      /****************/
	     / cato`proxxi.se /
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles
From: dick@ncs.com
Subject: Re: My Bicycle Helmet Experience
Organization: National Computer Systems, Inc.
Date: Fri, 28 Aug 1992 16:01:25 GMT

In article <71734@apple.Apple.COM> ehouse@Apple.COM (Eric House) writes:
>
>I'd say the analogy isn't all that great.  
			 ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
I think it is a good analogy.  

>There's a difference between a motorist hitting a cyclist and a construction 
>worker dropping a bolt.  Bolts getting dropped are part of construction work, 
						 ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>which is one of the reasons there's a law requiring hard hats on job sites.  

Accidents are a part of biking just like dropping bolts is probably a part of
construction.  Sooner or later you will have an accident if you ride enough.

>There isn't any law that I'm aware of against dropping bolts.  
There isn't any law against a cyclist hitting a pothole and crashing, or a hundred
other types of situations that could lead to a cyclist hitting his head on the
pavement.

>I'd be
>very nervous about a law that said a cyclist, for having failed to wear his
>helmet, was in some way responsible for getting injured in an accident.  That
>would be like blaming the construction worker without a hard hat for getting
>a girder dropped on his head.

No.
A construction worker getting a girder dropped on his head is like a cyclist
getting his head run over by a semi-truck.  In either case no helmet or hard
hat is going to save him.  It's the situations where a bolt is dropped, or 
a cyclist hits his head in a fall, where a helmet is of value.


-- 
Dick Anderson
Minneapolis

Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.soc
From: laforce@xenon.arc.nasa.gov (Soren LaForce)
Subject: Re: traffic rules (was: Hints on commuting by bike?)
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41    
Organization: NASA Ames Res. Ctr. Mtn Vw CA 94035
Distribution: na
Date: Wed, 2 Sep 1992 15:42:00 GMT

In article <1992Sep1.194611.18818@u.washington.edu>, roberth@milton.u.washington.edu (Robert Harrison) writes...
>In article <1992Sep1.181611.13576@stortek.com> jennings@lhotse.stortek.com (Jeff Jennings) writes:
>>Paul J. Schinder (schinder@leprss.gsfc.nasa.gov) wrote:
>>: I wouldn't be so sure if I were you.  The average car in the US is
>>: used for around 10000 miles a year.  If the average bike goes only 200
>>: miles it's within a factor of 50.
>>
>>This is true for an average car and an average bike.  However, the discussion
>>was about "Total" miles for cars vs. bikes.  The above comparison only 
>>remains valid if the number of cars is roughly the same as the number of
>>bikes.  Somehow, I don't think this is true.
>I think there are actually more bicycles in the U.S. than there are cars.
>I seem to recall seeing the numbers once--perhaps someone out there in
>netland can post the true numbers.
> 
>It should not be too surprising to find the numbers about the same, or even
>favoring bicycles.  After all, virtually every kid 5-15 owns a bike but
>doesn't own a car.  It seems pretty usual for a family to have a bike for
>everyone in the family but just have two cars.
> 


It's also pretty usual to use the car(s) every day and for the bikes to 
sit in the garage.

Next time you go out on your bike (or in your car) open your eyes and 
look at the proportions of cars and bikes!  During the week, except in 
the summer from 5 to 8 in the evening, it's about 100 to 1 (perhaps
a slight exageration).

The world out there is the biggest experiment going, all you have to do
is collect the data.  I'd like bikes to be safer too.  The thing is, 
I won't let my desires affect my analysis of the situtation.  By
the way, this is one reason I tend to be cautious about accepting data,
just because it's been published, if it blatently contradicts my own 
observations.  Note I said observations, not desires!

Sure lets list numbers, but lets also try to find out what the numbers 
mean.  Remember, mothers milk leads to heroin (95% of all heroin addicts
started out on mothers milk).  


--Soren            laforce@xenon.arc.nasa.gov