From: wolfone@ccwf.cc.utexas.edu (Nobody of Consequence)
Newsgroups: alt.politics.greens,talk.environment
Subject: Re: save the earth - ridiculous!
Date: 24 Jan 1993 22:28:35 GMT
Organization: The University of Texas at Austin, Austin TX
NNTP-Posting-Host: doc.cc.utexas.edu

In article <1993Jan21.024932.18367@netcom.com> ladasky@netcom.com (John J. Ladasky II) writes:
]In article <1678600128@igc.apc.org>,
]Dale McMillen <dmcmillen@igc.apc.org> writes:
]>
]>This whole discussion about extracting resources from outer space has
]>been interesting, but I have never heard anyone in the Green Party suggest
]>this is a viable solution.  Am I wrong?  Are there Greens out there who 
]>think this is a good idea?
]
]	I haven't seen anything in the California Green Party Platform
]concerning space exploration at all.  This is probably an omission that 
]should be corrected in the 1994 document.  We probably ought to say some-
]thing about the use of liquid oxygen/liquid hydrogen rocket motors vs.
]aluminum perchlorate solid rocket boosters - the former are far less 
]polluting.  We should also push for the recovery of all launch components.
]A lot of multi-stage rocket launches just drop their used stages into the
]ocean.

Actually, the original design for the shuttle *had* a recoverable booster 
and it was supposed to be able to make powered landings. Of course, budget
cuts gave us the current kludged-up 2/3-reusable system. Since when is 
water vapor a pollutant?

On solid fuels: I would like to see those relegated to things such as motors
for an ejection system (like the escape pod that I think Endeavor has). That
doesn't burn much fuel and it shouldn't be used too often unless the ground
crews constantly do maintenance while drunk/stoned.
 
]	Now, on to the issues of resources from space:
]
]	Speaking for myself, I think that there are great opportunities for
]humans in space - LATER.  

They said that 20 yrs ago. I think later has arrived.

]The extraction of any meaningful quantity of re-
]sources from space would involve a higher initial capital cost than any
]project yet undertaken by humans, and the return on our investment might take
]a century to come in. 

Do you mind if a private organization tries? Not everything needs a big  
government project. Also, some private groups don't spend huge sums of money
on paperwork designed to reduce government waste. They just go out and try
their plans.

]I don't foresee humans being able to use any meaning-
]ful quantity of space resources until we have a cohesive social order on
]Earth - which, incidentally, is a big part of what the Green Party is about.

Define "cohesive social order" buddy. That is seen by some as a euphemism
for a totalitarian state's control over everything. The Greens should remember
this and the old saying about what paves the road to hell.
 
]>From my point of view, our challenge is to live within our means.  This
]>is the challenge of the government to operate on a balanced budget.  This
]>is the challenge of individuals to avoid writing bad checks and not to
]>run up credit card debts.  IMHO, it is also the challenge of the human
]>race not to use more of the earth's resources than are available in a
]>sustainable way.
]
]	True.  If and when space exploration enters into the resource 
]equation, I might feel a bit different, though.  I don't have a huge 
]problem with, say, taking an asteroid somewhere and processing the whole
]thing for its mineral resources.  The ecological repercussions of, say,
]strip mining for the minerals on Earth are infinitely larger.

Classic understatement of the week. :)
 
]	Here's another fun one for you - the nearest reaches of space,
]known as "low Earth orbit," are becoming polluted!  Fragments of satellites
]which have suffered an impact with a passing meteor, cameras that have
]dropped out of astronauts' hands, etc. are considered to be a potential
]hazard for space vehicles. 

Depends on the vector/mass.

]A few years ago, NASA launched a platform called
]the LEV, for "Long-term Exposure Vehicle."  The surfaces of the LEV con-
]sisted of metal foil, which was analyzed for wear when the LEV was returned
]to Earth.  Does anybody know what was found?

A few holes here and there. Plus some pretty good tomato seeds that produced
some delicious tomatos instead of the "Mutated Killer Tomatos from Outer 
Space AIIEEEEEEE!!!" that the media hyped up around that time.
 
]	Perhaps we can bring this up at the 2040 World Caucus of the Green
]Party? :^)

What about 1995? The DC-1 should be nearing operational status by then.
 
>>Dale
>
>-- 
>== John J. Ladasky II ("ii") ========================= ladasky@netc.COM ==
>"Great composers do not borrow -	     "Talking about music is like
> they steal."  - John Ladasky	      ~ -     dancing about architecture."
>(quote stolen from Stravinsky, who    o o     - Elvis Costello?  Laurie
> stole it from a statement made by     >        Anderson?  Frank Zappa?
> Pablo Picasso about painting, who    \_/    -------------------------------
> stole it from...)			     "Property is theft." - Groucho
>----------------------------------------------------------------------------
>"A man w/o charity in his heart - what has he to do with music?" - Confucius
>============================================================================

Subject: Patrick Chester            |Words to live by:
Age: NOYB                           |"Military action is important to the     
Address: A place                    |nation--it is the ground of death and     
Email:wolfone@ccwf.cc.utexas.edu    |life, the path of survival and destruction
Political Views: Somewhere in orbit |so it is important to examine it."-Sun Tzu
Blackmarks: Politically Incorrect   |Famous Last Words:                        
(hobbies)   Anime Otaku/Trekker     |--If you cut me down, I will only become
            Technocentric           |more powerful...  
            Netrekker (claypigeon)  |--Shhh!! There it is again....           
            Whole bunch of -isms    |--Use the bazooka to open the door...
     Won't remove Sun Tzu quote to  |--I cut the red wire...
     make the Greens happy ;)       |--I have a *very* bad feeling about this
-- 
<***** INSERT LAWSUIT DEFLECTION TEXT*****> 

I speak (type actually) for myself only. Even if I did decide to 
speak for UT, no one would listen. 

Flame away, I don't bleedin' care...
Newsgroups: alt.politics.greens