HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: Suze.Hammond@f56.n105.z1.therose.pdx.com (Suze Hammond)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: Another Pennsic tip
Date: 24 Jul 92 07:01:00 GMT
Article-I.D.: therose.712043902.F00012

AN>  From: aryk@gpu.utcs.utoronto.ca (A.J.S. Nusbacher)
AN>
AN>  Last comment on this topic:  Sexual assault is a police matter.  It
AN>  is not
AN>  a matter for your household, your knight, the king, the autocrat, or
AN>  the
AN>  site owners.

I wish this were something SCAdians would take to heart.

I know of a very odd situation where making it an SCA matter, rather than a 
matter for the courts is leading to a serious injustice, or a risk to other 
women, depending upon who you believe.

A gentle is accused of rape, and is often banished from the face of various 
kings. He claims he doesn't even know of the incident, and no one will tell 
him who his accusor is. He has no way to clear his name whatsoever. He is a 
bit rough-edged, but no other woman that anyone knows of has ever said he 
did ought but go away, if bidden to, and courteously at that.

An unrelated (completely, in the SCA sense as well) gentle of mundane 
psychology credentials has, she thinks, run into the supposed victim, who 
spent long, *sober* hours getting counseling on this incident. The "victim" 
showed absolutely no sign of memory of the conversation the next day, and 
gentle #2 is convinced (for other reasons as well) she is a true multiple 
personality case. (Imagine how easy that would go unnoticed in the SCA...) 
Gentle #2 thinks gentle #1 made willing love to personality B and 
personality A woke up and thought "migod, I'm being raped!"

Had the victim gone to the police, gentle #1 could have a trial and the 
matter would be proven, one way or the other. Meanwhile, even his friends 
look at him a bit odd, and since gentle #2 sees this as a priviledged 
communication, she won't tell #1 who is accusing him either.

So either this group has a rapist in its midst, unpunished and in denial, OR 
a great injustice is being done....

(I will add that the victim has given many, conflicting descriptions of her 
supposed attacker, including one of another man entirely, who wasn't in the 
SCA yet, at the time, but she insists upon the name being right. This could 
even be mere hysteria/mental illness, or mistaken identity.)

Please folks, leave police matters to the police if they are this serious!
Petty theft, let the SCA handle. Rape and assault are for the pros...

Moreach NicMaolain
trifid@agora.rain.com 
 
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
From: GEN0036@Husky1.StMarys.Ca (GILBERT RICHARD)
Subject: Re: Basic Courtesy
Organization: St. Mary's University, Halifax, N.S., Canada
Date: Fri, 24 Jul 1992 01:55:51 GMT
X-News-Reader: VMS NEWS 1.12.SMU

Brian Goodhart writes:
> I recently recieved an email response to a posting here, where the writer  
> made "suggestions" on my ability to talk about the matter.  Although it  
> seems they tried to make it appear non-offensive I was still insulted.  (I  
> by and large decided not to take serious offense and disregared the  
> content of the email).
>
> The :-)  can help show sarcasm but they do not give free license to make  
> uncourteous comments.  I look at them this way:  If you were in right in  
> front of me and said that what would I do????  Options range from laugh,  
> grin, growl, swat lightly, resist hitting harder, start punning around  
> etc.... (not necessarily in that order).

A good handbook I've found for use of smilies... insert them where you'd
normally laugh in a normal conversation. This means that as long as you're
able to maintain a polite conversation, you're able to be polite on nets...
I always thought this was a little obvious, but most people seem to
disagree.

There are two problems I've had in the past with people appearing to
consider me discourteous - 1) People who take jokes personally, thinking
that I'm making a joke somehow connected to them, so it *must* be at their
expense; 2) People who take some side implication of what I say, thinking
it's what I'm *really* hitting at, not realizing that I generally mean
exactly, literally what I say, and have no idea what I'm implying...

However, these two problems are both the same in person and on the nets.
Ergo, all I have to do is figure out how to deal with people better (or
maybe the other way around; I suspect the former is more likely :) and both
problems go away... I've never been able to understand why people adopt
different personalities and ways of talking all of a sudden because it's
electronic now, but many do...

> Brian Goodhart, Eater of the Great Danish.

-Brynjolfr Myrkjartanarson, Compaignie Mercurie, Seashire, Ruantallan, East

      The unwise man thinks he will live for ever if he shuns fight, but
      Old age gives him no peace though spears may shun him. - The Havamal

          The Net: gen0036@husky1.stmarys.ca, gen0036@stmarys.bitnet
From: Stephen.Whitis@f4229.n124.z1.fidonet.org (Stephen Whitis)
Sender: FredGate@ocitor.fidonet
From: archer@utkux1.utk.edu (T. Archer)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Period vs. Filk
Date: 29 Jul 92 17:26:52 GMT
Organization: University of Tennessee Division of Continuing Education

In article <156hleINNo30@agate.berkeley.edu> cozzlab@garnet.berkeley.edu writes:

>In article <712383439.F00002@ocitor.fidonet> Beth.Appleton@f4229.n124.z1.fidonet.org (Beth Appleton) writes:
> [A long and reasoned discourse with the recurrent theme:
>       -"Save the filk for the post-revels."-]

>Interkingdom anthropology time once more.  I know of at least one kingdom
>(the West) where there are no post-revels.  Not only we don't hold them,
>we don't really have the concept.  This may be because we camp so much.
>If your event is in a hall in a city, it's easy to say, "Now at this
>event we're going to be Really Authentic, and then we'll go to Suzie's
>house for the post-revel and sing the Moose Song."  But when your event
>is out in the boonies anywhere from two to ten hours from home, when the
>event is over you go _home._

>So we have a much thinner semipermeable membrane between the period and
>the perioid.  Myself, if I'm presenting a song at Court in my capacity
>as Bard of the Mists, it's going to be a contrefait on a period tune.*
>If I've written perioid lyrics to a 20th-century tune, I'll do it at
>Master Flieg's bardic, where (as I've indicated) almost anything goes.

Things are much the same here in Thor's Mtn, Meridies.  Our primary site is 
about 2 hrs out of the city, and by the time stuff is broke down and put 
away, the event is OVER.
-=-=-
T. Archer  PA142548@utkvm1.utk.edu
University of Tennessee
"Vote Dempublican, it's easier than thinking." -- Unknown
-=-=-
From: mjc+@cs.cmu.edu (Monica Cellio)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: Period vs. Filk (was Basic Courtesy)
Date: 27 Jul 92 20:26:33 GMT
Organization: School of Computer Science, Carnegie Mellon

Greetings from Ellisif!

I don't think the period/filk distinction is particularly important per
se; arguments about "what is filk?" are likely to get sidetracked and miss
the point.  The real question is "what is appropriate?", right?

In my opinion, songs to Beatles tunes and songs that talk about airport
security are equally inappropriate at SCA events, where the goal is a 
medieval atmosphere.  It doesn't matter if you set period words to the 
Beatles tune or wrote the other song to Greensleeves; they're both blatantly
modern.

There is no way to disguise the modern words/themes, really.  It is certainly
possible to write period-sounding songs about SCA happenings and culture, and
I think this is good.  You may have to take some poetic license to avoid
mentioning mundanities, but that's part of the craft of writing.  This is
ok.  But I doubt there's a period way to talk about airport metal detectors
in a way that preserves the humor of wearing chainmail through them.

It's somewhat easier to fool the populace with respect to the music.  So
long as they don't recognize it as a modern tune or style (e.g. blues),
you can probably get away with it.  The music experts will know and be
bothered by it, but since it's easier to excise mundanities from words 
(which we all know something about) than from music (which few of us have 
studied), the music experts probably have to put up with it just like the 
garb experts have to put up with inaccurate costume.

I think it is ok to perform both period music and music that is period in
feel at events.  As someone who knows more than the SCA norm about music,
I remind myself that the person singing the 19th century ballad probably
thinks he's doing period stuff, and won't hold it against him.  (If it seems
like he would welcome feedback, I'll try to offer friendly advice later.)
I would like to see anything blatantly modern saved for the post-revel.

Ellisif Flakkari
who was once guilty of singing the Calypso Agincourt Carol at an event,
but knows better now
From: Stephen.Whitis@f4229.n124.z1.fidonet.org (Stephen Whitis)
Sender: FredGate@ocitor.fidonet
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Basic Courtesy
Date: Tue, 28 Jul 1992 23:09:00

>I'll bet that if every time I make a similar comment in the
>future we end up with 150 screen's full of heated debate on               
>the topic, that should provide discouragement enough...                   
><broad smile>                                                             
>                                                                          
>Take care, good friends -- Bertram                                        

Bertram, I'll bet that if every time you initiate a flame war it
generates 150 screen's full of heated debate on the topic that the
Rialto will cease to be useful.  <Note that there is not a smiley>

Stephen of the Grove
Steppes/Ansteorra        FIDO 1:124/4229
Stephen.Whitis@f4229.n124.z1.fidonet.org
___
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From: Suze.Hammond@f56.n105.z1.therose.pdx.com (Suze Hammond)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: Why not pentacles:
Date: 26 Jul 92 15:35:00 GMT
Article-I.D.: therose.712232284.F00002

AN>  From: ailsa%ailanth.uucp@wang.com (Ailsa N.T. Murphy)
AN>  Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
AN>
AN>  trifid@agora.uucp (Roadster Racewerks) writes:
AN>
AN>  > were bowdlerized for Christian ends. I would think they could be
AN>  "rehabilitated
AN>  > for use by non-Christians.
AN>  >
AN>  you mean like the Grail?  that's always been a favorite of mine...
AN>  wouldn't fit my persona tho.  she's Anglo-SAxon, not Celtic...

Now I don't know for sure, but would the Gundesrup Cauldron fit both 
cultures? It is sort of Celtic, but was found in Demark. And don't forget 
that Germanic and Celtic and Gaullish pagan religions seem to have had a lot 
of commerce between them in one time or another.

In any case, there is a great deal of overlap in all the religious symbols 
used in the SCA's major real-life subcultures. Pentacles, grails, 
crosses...various beasts and plant badges all meant many things (sometimes 
even the *same* things) to many peoples.

As a herald, I'd like to see more imagination from the major religions, too.
Of course, it would be ideal, from the standpoint of the SCA, if everyone 
would lay off religious symbolism, but often religion is a big part of who 
we are, and I suppose it is impractical to say that armory ought represent 
our persona (or us, for those in non persona-intensive kingdoms) and then 
try to divorce a large part of ourselves from said device.

Anyway, there are ways and ways to say a thing. To say it in the most likely 
manner to get a bad reaction is seldom the best course.  :-) If one is proud
of their religion, they ought to be proud to discuss it in polite converse, 
not cram it down unwilling throats. Do what will *intrigue* the viewer, and 
a better result is likely.

(I trust that it is understood that I am not the sort to do any cramming, 
myself. My device has a lion, and not St. Mark's lion, either.)

Moreach
trifid@agora.rain.com
From: rich@uniwa.uwa.EDU.AU (Paul Rich  Education)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: SCA Digest V5 #512
Date: 29 Jul 92 07:42:20 GMT
Organization: The Internet
X-Unparsable-Date: Wed, 29 Jul 92 14: 49:58 WST

What scope is there for freemasonic rituals in SCA affairs -- or is
there something currently going on of which I am unaware?

--Paul Rich The University of Western Australia
From: hjfeld@pub2.bu.edu (harold feld)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: Looking for Yuletide Celbration info.
Date: 31 Jul 92 17:52:46 GMT
Organization: Boston University, Boston, MA, USA

In article <159q1nINNcbj@agate.berkeley.edu> cozzlab@garnet.berkeley.edu writes:
>In article <Bs818v.DJ5@gpu.utcs.utoronto.ca> aryk@gpu.utcs.utoronto.ca (A.J.S. Nusbacher) writes:
>And there was a strange mediaeval sect called the Notzrim (Hebrew for
>Nazarenes) who claimed that their god was born about then, wasn't    

Aryk! I am shocked and surprised.  Surely you know that 'Notzrim' is the
Hebrew word for Christians (well...the polite one:-))

You are correct that it comes from Nazarene.  The place, not
the people sworn not to drink or cut their hair, who are Nazarites.
Or th foolish people of al-Islam, Nasir Din. :-) :-)

In Service,
Yaakov HaMizrachi
(who may finally be getting the
hang of this $#%^! unix acct.
But continues to read mail adressed
to lawbkwn@buacca or lawbkwn@buacca.bu.edu
From: Suze.Hammond@f56.n105.z1.therose.pdx.com (Suze Hammond)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: Residence in local branches
Date: 17 Jul 92 04:35:00 GMT
Article-I.D.: therose.711615569.F00003

JM>  From: mittle@watson.ibm.com (Josh Mittleman)
JM>  Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
JM>  <1681CAC85.00030929@ysub.ysu.edu>
JM>  <1992Jul9.232921.4398@usenet.ins.cwru.edu>
JM>  <1992Jul15.213228.23120@usenet.ins.cwru.edu>
JM>
JM>  Greetings from Arval!  Miles had written:
JM>
JM>  > Why not make Baronies by persons rather then zip codes? or shires?
JM>
JM>  > Except in period it was not by zip code. In perioid I would have
JM>  moved
JM>  > if I had a problem. I am not about ot uproot my mundane life for a
JM>  better
JM>  > shire :)
JM>
JM>  I realize this was intended humorously, but it is the third time I've
JM>  seen
JM>  this idea.  I question its validity: Do you really think that a
JM>  medieval
JM>  landholder would abandon his home and lands to move to another place
JM>  in
JM>  order to escape an unfriendly overlord?  Unless you have a very
JM>  lower-class
JM>  persona, this argument makes no sense.  And if you do, then you are
JM>  very
JM>  likely a serf who is legally bound to the land!

Ah Arval, indeed you are not of the Gael...

Whole smaller clans moved over the next ridge to get away from this or that 
unlovely chief or overlord, all the time, switching allegiance as they went. 
"Twas the cause of some *lovely* feuds between clans. Some of them lasted 
centuries. It was especially common after the Scots Crown accepted Norman 
ideas of overlordship, contrary to the common local ideal that a clan's 
*people* were its wealth, not the land it occupied.

Moreach NicMaolain
intinerant Scot 
 
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
From: mdunbar@midway.ecn.uoknor.edu (Michael Dunbar)
Subject: oops.
Summary: posted a mistake
Keywords: al11
Organization: Engineering Computer Network, University of Oklahoma, Norman, OK, USA
Date: Fri, 24 Jul 1992 23:41:12 GMT

er...try posting to alt.pagan for information on the morris dancing,
not alt.wicca...it doesn't yet exist...sorry...;)

Mortiana
a.k.a. julie levitt
(using her fiance's account)
From: Stephen.Whitis@f4229.n124.z1.fidonet.org (Stephen Whitis)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Apology and Retraction
Date: 30 Jul 92 07:46:04 GMT

Thomas Ignatius Perigrinus writes to Hossein...

>An thou dost quit the feild of honor, thou dost not serve honor,  thou
>proclaimest thyself a coward and allow the dark forces of ignorance
 ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>and temptation claim the feild.

I take offense to your calling Hossein a coward, and while not
intending to, calling me a coward also.  For I also have plans to
withdraw from the Rialto, and go on to things that I expect to find
more useful than what I have recently experienced here.

However, the gist of your post seems to be "Hossein, we like you,
we respect you, and we don't want you to leave." and if that is
indeed your intent, I applaud you for it.

Stephen of the Grove
Steppes/Ansteorra        FIDO 1:124/4229
Stephen.Whitis@f4229.n124.z1.fidonet.org
___
 X MegaMail 2.10 #0:CRUSADE CRUSADE CRUSADE!!!!

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Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
From: schuldy@progress.COM (Mark Schuldenfrei)
Subject: Re: Steward's office restructuring.
Organization: Progress Software Corp.
Date: Mon, 27 Jul 1992 20:20:42 GMT

Arval (quoting a publication I posted) wrote:

  Among the goals of the "Steward's Council" which the Board discussed in its
  letter, was listed:

  >   o Coordinating servicemark registration

  Does anyone have any idea what this means?

A Guess, only a GUESS, just GUESSING:

A servicemark is like a trademark: a registered name used for conducting
a particular business.  For example, many banks and investment houses
have names registered for their exclusive use, and can use the court
system to control that use.

It is common for organizations who do not perform trade, but who have
names which they wish to control, to servicemark those names, to prevent
their unauthorized use.  For example, Wellesley College has servicemarked
the names of their dorms, and have used that to control the sale of
T-shirts by third parties.

I haven't thought enough about this to decide if this is a good or bad
thing, I'm not even sure if I am correct in my explanation.  Hold your
Fire.  Does anyone know if my surmise is correct?

	Tibor
--
Mark Schuldenfrei (schuldy@progress.com)
From: Suze.Hammond@f56.n105.z1.therose.pdx.com (Suze Hammond)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: Photography in the SCA (long)
Date: 24 Jul 92 07:36:00 GMT
Article-I.D.: therose.712043902.F00014

AS>  From: amlsmith@morgan.ucs.mun.ca (Andrew Smith)
AS>  Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
AS>
AS>  Moreach asks "IS it any business of yours, BTW?"

AS>  if we shoud meet, if I were permitted to take your photo. I also
AS>  would
AS>  understand, and comply, if you still (politely) denied me that honor.

Not if you saw how I looked on film!
And I'm not exactly polite. On the other hand I never deny the request. Sort 
of very grumpy compliance...  ;->

AS>  Have _you_ ever considered trying the _other_ end of the camera? My

Many, many times. NEVER in the SCA. I shoot quite a bit of the usual 
semi-decent amateur stuff, and my boyfriend is a pretty good shot, but he 
agrees it is not proper to take it to events. My best friend is on your 
side, and has several shots of me (looking grumpy, of course :-).

AS>  You do suggst that we take up illuminating the scenes of interest,
AS>  and
AS>  then reproducing them in a photographic manner, for those who would
AS>  be
AS>  interested for such items.   _That_ is about the brightest idea I
AS>  have
AS>  heard yet, thank you.

Thank *you*!

Although this sounds inconsistent on first hearing, the reasoning is that 
mundanian media are generally set up to process photographs, not artworks, 
and I suspect photos of artwork would be easier for them to deal with than 
the real thing, even if the limners wanted to add that much work to their 
load...

AS>  Perhaps, by having one competent photographer, with appropriate
AS>  equipment and film, we can take care of the "Nobody takes a good
AS>  photo of
AS>  me" paranoia.

I have often wondered how a photo booth (with garb available, like the 
western ones) would do at events. It could look like a camera obscura from 
the outside, and the participants would, by definition, be willing. A nice 
castle rampart backdrop could be made, and a torture rack or beheading block 
scene for the wags among us. Those who wanted to ignore it could do so 
easily. Just don't go inside!

This wouldn't take care of Kathy's unnatural need to have pictures of 
pavilions...  :-)

Moreach NicMaolain
trifid@agora.rain.com
From: cozzlab@garnet.berkeley.edu ()
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: Looking for Yuletide Celbration info.
Date: 30 Jul 1992 22:21:43 GMT
Organization: University of California, Berkeley
NNTP-Posting-Host: garnet.berkeley.edu

In article <Bs818v.DJ5@gpu.utcs.utoronto.ca> aryk@gpu.utcs.utoronto.ca (A.J.S. Nusbacher) writes:
>And there was a strange mediaeval sect called the Notzrim (Hebrew for
>Nazarenes) who claimed that their god was born about then, wasn't there?

Actually, he was probably born in the spring. ("There were shepherds in the
fields keeping watch over their flocks by night."  The only time of year
you need to sit up with the flocks all night is during lambing time.)

However, the Church Fathers discovered early on that it was a real neat
idea to give the faithful something _else_ to do during the Saturnalia--
a principle that's worked ever since.  (May 1st used to be a feast of the
Virgin, before Pope Leo XIII decided it would be the better part of
valor to make it St. Joseph the Workman.)


Dorothea of Caer-Myrddin                               Dorothy J. Heydt
Mists/Mists/West                                              Albany CA
Argent, a cross forme'e sable

Disclaimer: This is the Cozzarelli Lab's account, not mine--but I don't
think anybody else ever reads it.
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
From: whheydt@pbhya.PacBell.COM (Wilson Heydt)
Subject: Re: Period vs. Filk (was Basic Courtesy)
Reply-To: whheydt@PacBell.COM (Wilson Heydt)
Organization: Pacific * Bell, San Ramon, CA
Date: Mon, 27 Jul 1992 22:11:33 GMT

In article <mjc.712268793@NL.CS.CMU.EDU> mjc+@cs.cmu.edu (Monica Cellio) writes:
>There is no way to disguise the modern words/themes, really.  It is certainly
>possible to write period-sounding songs about SCA happenings and culture, and
>I think this is good.  You may have to take some poetic license to avoid
>mentioning mundanities, but that's part of the craft of writing.  This is
>ok.

If you're going to be at Pennsic, ask the Bard of the Mists to sing
you the ballad of "Balin the Hunter and the Honey Wagon."  Then come
back here and tell us about disguising the realities of the mundane
world in song . . .

	--Hal

        Hal Ravn, Province of the Mists, West Kingdom
        Wilson H. Heydt, Jr.,  Albany, CA 94706,  510/524-8321 (home)
-- 
Hal Heydt                    |    "Boycott Time-Warner"
Analyst, Pacific*Bell        |         --J. Danforth Quayle
510-823-5447                 |    "... kill all the lawyers."
whheydt@pbhya.PacBell.COM    |         --William Shakespeare
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
From: GEN0036@Husky1.StMarys.Ca (Brynjolfr)
Subject: Re: Televangelists
Organization: St. Mary's University, Halifax, N.S., Canada
Date: Wed, 29 Jul 1992 14:23:20 GMT
X-News-Reader: VMS NEWS 1.12.SMU

Nicholas writes:

>Brynjolfr Myrkjartanarson writes:
>
>>>>Well, there are the major fundamentalist churches (which generally have 
>>>>bigger fish to fry anyway) and the Loonies for Christ, :-) who give them a 
>>>>bad name, while picking old folk's pockets.
>
>>>>We do have to remember that we ought try not to generalize about *anyone*.
>
>>>Of course, you've just done a pretty good job of generalizing about 
>>>the *minor* fundamentalist churches.
>
>>Well, I think the Loonies for Christ reference was to televangelism, that
>>rather odd form of Christianity which tends to bleed its worshippers dry,
>
>So now we aren't generalizing about anyone at all, are we? :-)

Well, *I* didn't agree to not generalize about people, I was simply
correcting the previous poster as to what the poster before was
generalizing about... :) I think when one generalizes, one should be very
careful to make sure one is correct. I don't believe in never generalizing
tho (as can be seen by my post ;)

-Brynjolfr Myrkjartanarson, Compaignie Mercurie, Seashire, Ruantallan, East

      The unwise man thinks he will live for ever if he shuns fight, but
      Old age gives him no peace though spears may shun him. - The Havamal

          The Net: gen0036@husky1.stmarys.ca, gen0036@stmarys.bitnet
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca