From: gd8f@kelvin.seas.Virginia.EDU (Gregory  Dandulakis)
Subject: Re: Greece and the EC (over and out)
Organization: University of Virginia
Date: Mon, 11 Jan 1993 02:19:05 GMT


In article <1993Jan10.090633@imhfhp16.epfl.ch> gavrila@imhfhp16.epfl.ch (Spyros Gavrilakis) writes:
>In article <1993Jan9.214105.22108@murdoch.acc.Virginia.EDU>, gd8f@kelvin.seas.Virginia.EDU (Gregory  Dandulakis) writes:
>|> >
>
>|> No, it doesn't!!! You are trying to down grade any possible good point of
>|> Greece. Are you from the civil war losers (they had the fame of this mania
>|> for a while)?
>|> 
>
>I see that this is getting ugly. Allow me to drop out.


I appreciate it; there is either a limit to the irony or to the
available arguments. I felt urged to do the same before but
after second thoughts I said: "No. I can bring some more factual
arguments".

As far as the "civil war losers", I knew from your previous postings
that you were not one of them; still I felt that many attitudes are
the same and the similarity is useful to be stretched.


>B4 I sign off from this thread, let me say that I deeply regret
>having overeacted to your comparisons to between Greece-Italy-Spain,
>but seeing your insensitive and false insinuation  above, I am
>not sure that I was unjustified. Neither I nor anyone related
>to me has been involved in the politics of Greece. I happen
>to have lived half my life outside  Greece and I find many of
>their/your arguments hollow. No doudt my prolonged exposure
>to the evil foreign media is to blame; I believe that this is
>true of the majority of Greeks living abroad for more than 10
>years. Still, I hope that I succeeded in making u notice that
>there more opinions that yours and given the brief interval b4
>abuse starts, some kind of argument can be made. Will u ever
>make an effort to be more tolerant?


I haven't seen all the greeks living abroad after a while to
adopt the foreign mass media evaluations of their country for
granted. Some they do; more they don't. Certainly, though, I'm
exposed to these "opinions" extensively; actually from a major
creator of them (US).

As far as being tolerant, when your reactions to my arguments were
the following ones, I have actually surpassed my real-time tolerance
to those.

Examples.


1.

After bringing info from sources which you respect and while
you had questioned the validity of my sources, you respond
with the following "complement":

>Flipping into reverse-accusation mode is
>no sign of sophistication (cf Hasan B. Mutlu).

I respond persistently but politely.


2.

When I keep expressing some of my thoughts, you respond
by the ironical:

>Interesting; W. Churchill has misquoted you!

I respond persistently but politely.


3.

When I bring examples where the propaganda machines (mass media)
use double standards (so obvious for so many cases) for different
countries, you respond with the "complement":

>Horror! What advertisment for Greek morals.

I don't give any "proper" answer.


4.

When I bring more, personally experienced, attitudes
by some others, which actually I didn't adopt, you
directly attack:

>HOROR again. This man cannot see the immorality of what he says.

Again, I swallow the insult and more persistently I bring more
valid info.


5.

Finally, a frustrated, ironical, answer comes after some more info
provided:

>You forgot to mention that Saturn's postion in the sky was in
>a position unfavourable to Greek EC entry.

In this case I retaliate with an indirect "insult"  by implying a
false political affiliation of yours.


Taking into consideration that I was trying hard to bring
"valid", according to you, info, while you were avoiding to
either answer my questions or provide more counter-info and
on top of that I was confronted with more irony from you,
I felt compelled to use the same weapons of argumentation
like yours.


Gr

PS: I do consider your discussions intelligent but somewhat
    too arrogant and ironical for my taste. Can we possibly
    find a more common style when we debate?
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