From: galanter@nyu.edu (Philip Galanter)
Subject: Re: Moshing? What the fuck...
Reply-To: galanter@nyu.edu (Philip Galanter)
Organization: New York University
Date: Tue, 18 Aug 1992 00:52:11 GMT

In article <Aug.14.14.12.44.1992.11611@athos.rutgers.edu>  
trudel@athos.rutgers.edu (Jonathan) writes:
|lpm@hal.gnu.ai.mit.edu (Lee P Miller) writes:
|
|>In article <Pmm7oB4w164w@cyberden.uucp>  
moon!cyberden!xorcist@well.sf.ca.us writes:
|>>I must be getting old...
|>>
|>>What is it with this fucking Moshing? Is this the new kiddie coin  
phrase?
|
|>>It's called Slam Dancing.. it always has been and always will. What's
|>>the problem here? (Sounding like the LA Reader's Angriest Dog In The  
World).
|
|>There is a difference between slam dancing and moshing "Slam" dancing  
implies
|>just how it sounds dancing around slamming into other people in the  
crowd, and
|>as far as I know originated with punk bands, Moshing on the other hand  
is just
|>people runnign around in a circle flailing their limbs about and became  
quit
|>popular at Thrash Metal concerts
|
|
|Beg to differ, squire.  It has always been Slamming no matter what you
|want to think.  In the Early 80s (probably '82) This Thing you call
|moshing was being done at a Great Concert in NYC - Kraut and Adrenalin

An even older punk tends to agree...as best as I can remember the first  
punk dance styles were "pogo dancing" (looks like it sounds, lots of  
piston-like bouncing up and down, and various ska related group styles  
(not sure if they had a name, but I bet they did in the UK) where folks  
would form snake-like lines and wind through the crowd (see just about any  
picture of the group Madness).  A bit later, as Ramones style gym shoes  
gave way to more hardcore boots and the like, it became more difficult to  
pogo, and it mutated into an aggressive forward, backward, and  
left-right-cross bent-knee kick dancing.  

It is my observation that the combination of pogo dancers landing on each  
other, the ska team style dancing, and the more aggressive Doc Martens  
kick-mandated dancing merged to become slam dancing (aka slamming).  In  
the beginning slam dancing, although aggressive, was not an expression of  
violence (although it looked that way to the exact outsider audience punks  
would have hoped to impressed as such).  Rather it was more like a team  
sport (and, some would argue, a socially acceptable form of touching).  It  
was only when various former high school football players and other macho  
creeps started showing up at punk clubs that things got nasty.  Thus, the  
notion that slamming is somehow an earlier more mean spirited version of  
moshing is simply wrong.  In its purest form, slam dancing was quite good  
natured.

I am not sure where then term "moshing" turned up first, but I tend to  
associate it with the time that metal and punk crossed (something that  
would have been unthinkable in earlier years in terms of club scenes, but  
not so much as musical styles, at least among punk musicians who  
understood what they were doing at a more, -ahem-, cerebral level).   
Suddenly we seemed to have thrash, speed-core, speed-metal, skate punks,  
and .... mosh pits.

It would be an interesting exercise in pop culture research to find the  
first printed use of the term moshing...it might provide some subcultural  
and regional clues...

As an old punk, I have to admit that I too bristle a bit at the term  
moshing...and I know others who do too...its as if someone has stolen your  
dog and given it a new name...

Phil

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Philip Galanter         New York University    phone:    212-998-3041
Research Associate      251 Mercer             fax:      212-995-4120
Academic Computing      New York, NY 10012     internet: galanter@nyu.edu
 
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