HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: lowell@tc.fluke.COM (Lowell Skoog)
Subject: Advanced object-oriented programming using C++
Organization: John Fluke Mfg. Co., Inc., Everett, WA
Distribution: seattle
Date: Mon, 13 Apr 1992 19:10:20 GMT

                   American Electronics Association
                               presents
            Advanced object-oriented programming using C++

                  Instructor: Karen Ryer Cunningham

                           May 7 & 8, 1992
                           Greenwood Hotel
                           625 116th Ave NE
                             Bellevue, WA

After an introduction to C++ and object-oriented programming many
people still feel the need for more information before tackling a
substantial C++ project.  Syntax has been mastered but more
significant idioms need bo become part of your C++ vocabulary.

This class discusses how C++ can be effectively used in programming
projects by teaching some of these idioms and common wisdom on
writing good C++ code.  A single large program is used throughout the
class to demonstrate the concepts.

Course outline:
  Review of design and C++ features
    * An example used throughout the course will be introduced.
    * Minor changes recently made to C++
  Linked lists and other data structures
    * Templates
    * Alternatives to templates for previous language releases
  Storage management
    * Several methods of reference counting
    * Overloading new and delete
  Style and efficiency
    * Common folklore on safe and maintainable C++ code
    * Avoiding executing overhead
    * The multiple inheritance debate
    * Double dispatching
  I/O libraries
    * Using stream I/O with files
    * Other iostream features
    * Interfacing to a windowing system
  Designing and using libraries
    * Criteria for judging a library
    * Using one or more libraries in a program
    * Guidelines for producing a library
    * Linking to other languages

Daily schedule:
  8:00 am	Registration
  8:30 am	Seminar begins
  4:30 pm	Seminar concludes
  Continental breakfast, lunch, and materials will be provided

Registration:
  $400 per person for AEA members
  $595 per person for non-members

  Companies with 5 registrants will receive $100 off for the 5th
  registrant.  Telephone and FAX registrations are accepted, but the
  fee must be received to guarantee a space in the class.  Class size
  is 30-50 people.

  No refunds for cancellations made within seven working days of the
  program.  Substitutions may be made at any time without penalty.

  AEA office:	206/486-5720
  Fax:    	206/487-2953
From: uncle@milton.milton.u.washington.edu (Milton Friedmen)
Newsgroups: seattle.general
Subject: majority opinion is not always best for society (was Re: music censorship in WA...)
Date: 10 Apr 92 23:06:17 GMT
	<1992Apr7.184629.13344@mdd.comm.mot.com>
	<1992Apr8.210536.21677@u.washington.edu>
	<1992Apr9.054809.17339@mdd.comm.mot.com>
	<1992Apr10.023215.29563@u.washington.edu>
Distribution: seattle
Organization: Sublime Thoughts and Actions Corp.

I am posting this question for you, Il Hwan Oh:

Are you trying to argue that what the majority wants is necessarily what is
best for it?

It seems to me that your argument is that the majority wants music censorship
and that this is therefore the best thing to do.  If this were a valid
argument, then no one should ever try to change the values or opinions of
society since the majority view is already the correct one.
--
I'm having an EMOTIONAL OUTBURST!!  But, uh, WHY is there a WAFFLE
 in my PAJAMA POCKET??
From: il@bambam.u.washington.edu (Il Hwan Oh)
Newsgroups: seattle.general
Subject: Re: music censorship in WA state now in effect
Keywords: fascist censorship (shudder!)
Date: 12 Apr 92 08:29:01 GMT
Distribution: seattle
Organization: University of Washington

kurt@eskimo.celestial.com (Kurt Cockrm 762-6417) writes:
> il@bambam.u.washington.edu (Il Hwan Oh) writes:

>>                                  There is nothing morally or ethically
>>wrong or right about this, in my opinion.
>Does this opinion apply WRT the music law?

Yes.  Like I said, many parenting theories abound, and none have been
proven to be superior over the others.

>A while back you saw no problem with the idea that the purpose of government
>is to force us all to obey the will of the majority.  Is the "will of the
>majority" an imperative that transcends moral or ethical judgements, in
>your opinion?

Isn't it this idea that the government of this country was founded on?
Personally, no, I don't believe that majority will is always right.
However, most of the time, it isn't that harmful.

>>                                           Back to the music censoring
>>issue, I don't believe we have enough information to determine if the
>>majority of parents are in favor or against this.
>Are you admitting the lack of wisdom of the policy?  Is there something
>wrong with the process?

What everyone seems to be skipping over is the parts where I state my
position.  I don't think there anything inherently wrong or right with
this policy.  I am arguing that position, not the position that it
is a moral imperative.

By the way, some of you have started to get silly.  I'm only answering
-- 
Il Hwan Oh                    | "A university is a place where people pay
Computer Facilities Manager   | high prices for goods which they then
Univ. of Washington, Tacoma   | proceed to leave on the counter when
iho@cac.washington.edu        | they go out of the store." -- Loren Eisley
Newsgroups: seattle.general
From: gilbert@mdd.comm.mot.com (John Gilbert)
Subject: Re: music censorship in WA state now in effect
Keywords: fascist censorship (shudder!)
Organization: Motorola, Mobile Data Division - Seattle, WA
Distribution: seattle
Date: Mon, 13 Apr 1992 04:58:27 GMT

In article <1992Apr12.081516.23566@u.washington.edu> il@bambam.u.washington.edu (Il Hwan Oh) writes:

>>What is going on here is that you hold the same values as this lady in this
>>case, so you are constructing arguments which sound generic that support her.
>>Either that, or you agree with the grandma analogy.
>
>Actually, I do not hold the same values this lady does.  I doubt that
>she and I hold a common opinion on too many issues.  I am normally
>against censorship, but I think this is a special case.  This applies
>only to children and I believe we need to support the parents' wishes
>on this.

Uh, which parents' wishes?  The small group that lobbied for the law?  Why?
How about my wishes.  I am a parent.  And I think here we can show lot's of 
other parents' feel this was wrong.

You admitted earlier that you have not enough data on who is in the
majority.  You have stated you believe we should act for the majority
(I presume even on issues of thought, where "harm" is possibly non-existent,
or certainly subjective).  Given these two facts alone I have trouble
resolving the point your are trying to establish.

Howsabout we get enough people to lobby to make it a felony to allow your
children to obtain such music, and double the prison term if it can
be shown that you allowed them to listen to it in your home?  Apparently
this can be done with a modest number of people, relative to the
total population. I get enough people and you will quietly sit back
and allow this to be a "good law"? Don't you EVER question a majority decision?

John

-- 
John Gilbert
gilbert@mdd.comm.mot.com
...!uunet!mdisea!gilbert
From: kurt@eskimo.celestial.com (Kurt Cockrm 762-6417)
Newsgroups: seattle.general
Subject: Re: Music censorship? Well... (was: Re: music censorship in WA state)
Date: 6 Apr 92 17:59:04 GMT
Distribution: pnw
Organization: Cores 'R Us

In article <1992Apr5.195358.14804@u.washington.edu> pkemp@byron.u.washington.edu (Paul Kemp) writes:
>
>O.K. a couple of questions re: 'erotic music'.
>
>1.  Is it now illegal for a minor to have this music?
>
>2. Is it illegal for an adult to buy this music and give it to a minor?
>
>3. Is it illegal to play this music in public?
>
>4. Is it illegal to play this music to a private audience which includes
>   minors?
>
>If the answer to ANY of these questions is no, then what is the use/purpose
>of the law?
>

As far as I know, the law relates solely to retail sales of "erotic" music
to minors.  BTW, in my conversation with the Censorship Lady, she acknowledged
that the word "erotic" was a mistake and would be changed to something else,
probably "obscene".

kurt@grogatch.celestial.com (Kurt Cockrum)
From: evenson@hitl.washington.edu (Mark Evenson)
Newsgroups: seattle.general
Subject: Re: NBC News report on Jerry Brown
Date: 9 Apr 92 08:13:45 GMT
Organization: R+D Hipsters @ virtual HITLab, Ithaca



	"Now that," Case said to his glass, all his bitterness suddenly
rising in him like bile, "that is *so* much bullshit."
From: bright@nazgul.UUCP (Walter Bright)
Newsgroups: seattle.general
Subject: Re: KING 5 and others
Date: 8 Apr 92 03:27:21 GMT
Reply-To: bright@nazgul.UUCP (Walter Bright)
Distribution: seattle
Organization: Zortech, Seattle

In article <2194@bcstec.boeing.com> robs@bcstec.boeing.com (Robert Sipe) writes:
>I feel
>Ken Schram takes the cake when it comes to commentaries.

Have you ever watched him on Town Meeting? He piously poses as being unbiased
by selecting guests on both sides of an issue. Then watch him in action. He
repeatedly cuts off the guest he disagrees with and hands the floor over to
the other. He also asks inflammatory questions of the guest he doesn't like.

I don't like him.  He's an embarassment to the journalism profession.
Someday I'm going to get tickets to Town Meeting and am going to give
him a piece of my mind :-)
From: donn@brat.UUCP (Donn Pedro)
Newsgroups: seattle.general
Subject: Re: music censorship in WA state now in effect
Keywords: Confucian censorship (shudder!)
Date: 11 Apr 92 16:18:07 GMT
Distribution: seattle
Organization: Tandemonium, Kent, WA

In article <1992Apr10.050740.11754@u.washington.edu> iho@cac.washington.edu writes:
>kurt@eskimo.celestial.com (Kurt Cockrm 762-6417) writes:
>> iho@cac.washington.edu writes:
>
>> >                                                I don't think that's
>> >a bad thing.
>> Don't be shy.  Please tell us, if you will, what is *good* about that??
>
>I'm dead serious here.  We can't all go around doing as we please.  See
>my statement which you've so kindly quoted below.

Of course we can.  You just ensure the consequences of your actions 
bring harm to no one else.

It's really that simple.



     Donn Pedro ....................a.k.a. uunet!nwnexus!brat!donn
         			     else:  uunet!uswnvg!dfpedro
	
	       "You talk the talk.  Do you walk the walk?"
From: bogus@milton.u.washington.edu (Young and Wealthy)
Subject: Partners wanted: Double your income and do it part time! 
Organization: University of Washington
Date: Tue, 7 Apr 1992 16:09:58 GMT


I am looking for a few good man with business knowledge and a desire to
make a gob of money.  For details please reply to this message or call my
Voice mail at 298-6109.  This is NOT some real estate seminar where the guy
try to sell you his tapes for $800.  I am ONLY looking for 2 or 3 people for
a few businessman in the area.

Also, if anyone knows about government auction and are looking for partner to
invest and share profit, please also respong.  Thanks.

Peter 
-- 
If scientific reasoning were limited to the logical processes of
arithmetic, we should not get very far in our understanding of the
physical world.  One might as well attempt to grasp the game of poker
entirely by the use of the mathematics of probability.
From: drinkard@bcstec.boeing.com (Terrell D. Drinkard)
Newsgroups: seattle.general
Subject: A friend needs a job
Summary: BS CompSci, networking experience in college
Keywords: young guy needs work
Date: 13 Apr 92 03:36:48 GMT
Distribution: seattle
Organization: boeing

We have a friend who will shortly graduate from the California Polytechnic
State University at San Luis Obispo, and he needs a job.  His degree is
Computer Science, and he has experience with Macs, PCs, NeXTs, Suns, and
Pyramids (and no doubt one or two others that I'm unaware of).  He programs
well, and is a marvelous, intelligent, caring person.  We love him a bunch
and would really like to see him get a job in the area, marry some sweet
young thing, and have a couple of kids.  :-)
  
So, if you, or someone you know, is in need of an intelligent,
hard-working, ethical, and just all-around special programmer, or network
administrator, do let me know and I will forward you his resume.


-- 
Terry
drinkard@bcstec.boeing.com
"Anyone who thinks they can hold the company responsible for what I say has
more lawyers than sense."
Newsgroups: seattle.general
From: bradley@mdd.comm.mot.com (Michael Bradley)
Subject: Re: Music censorship? Well... (was: Re: music censorship in WA state)
Organization: Motorola, Mobile Data Division - Seattle, WA
Date: Mon, 6 Apr 1992 17:44:46 GMT

In article <1992Apr6.054826.4343@rosedale.uucp> dcb@rosedale.uucp (Dave Breneman) writes:
>
>
>Social Engineering.

Some of believe it is Social Re engineering
>
>
>-- 
>David Breneman            #################          I'm an American, dammit.
>The Spud Goodman Show      ####### #######           What gives Russians the
>dcb@rosedale.uucp           #####   #####            the right to have less
> ..uunet!camco!rosedale!dcb      (_)  - - - Ciao.    government than me?
From: dxxb@milton.u.washington.edu (David W. Barts)
Newsgroups: seattle.general
Subject: Re: Requesting contractor/roofer references
Date: 9 Apr 92 16:33:21 GMT
Distribution: seattle
Organization: University of Washington, Seattle

In article <2454@voodoo.UUCP> mnb@voodoo.boeing.com (Mike Burr) writes:
>Hi folks,
>
>I would be interested in hearing any references (or warnings) for the
>following...
>
>    1.  Roofers who will do shake roofs
>
>           Anybody used K.C. roofing company?

Ditto, but I'm interested asphalt shingle roofs.

--
David Barts  N5JRN			UW Civil Engineering, FX-10
dxxb@u.washington.edu			Seattle, WA  98195
From: uncle@milton.milton.u.washington.edu (Milton Friedmen)
Newsgroups: seattle.general
Subject: Re: music censorship in WA state now in effect
Date: 11 Apr 92 00:19:58 GMT
	<1992Apr8.210536.21677@u.washington.edu>
	<1992Apr9.175103.5827@eskimo.celestial.com>
	<1992Apr10.142521.25860@mdd.comm.mot.com>
Distribution: seattle
Organization: Sublime Thoughts and Actions Corp.

In article <1992Apr10.142521.25860@mdd.comm.mot.com> mitchell@mdd.comm.mot.com (Bill Mitchell) writes:

> We've forfeited the civil liberties which would allow members of society
> not agreeing with these value judgements to ignore them, and created
> governmental agencies to enforce the values on those who would exercise
> the forfeited civil liberties by murdering, raping, pillaging, or driving
> over 55 mph.
>
> Are you seriously saying that this whole system is a _bad_thing_?  What
> would you suggest to replace it?
>
> Oh, BTW, I think this music censorship law is silly and stupid.  However,
> I'm not about to suggest reworking our entire society because of it.

You don't have to rework society, you need only convince the powers-that-be
(whether you believe this to be the majority or an elite group) that their
current view (and the law in question) is actually wrong and harmful.

If you argue against censorship, you don't have to simultaneously argue for
murder, rape and laissez-faire speed limits.

--
I'm having an EMOTIONAL OUTBURST!!  But, uh, WHY is there a WAFFLE
 in my PAJAMA POCKET??
From: kint@engr.washington.edu (Rick Kint)
Newsgroups: seattle.general
Subject: Summary: Home Inspector Recommendations
Date: 13 Apr 92 22:15:31 GMT
Distribution: seattle
Organization: no more than necessary


	I received a number of recommendations for home inspectors, through
E-mail and verbally.  Here is a summary:

Try Ken Grimes (935-4513).  He is an ex-contractor who does an excellent
job and gives detailed reports.  He is very thorough (ie. he'll check the 
electrical panel and look to see if the right grade of wire goes to a breaker
of the appropriate amperage etc.

I can enthusiastically recommend Richard Matzen of Home Buyers Inspections.
784-1217.  He has inspected my last two houses - and really knows his
job.  The best compliment I can give him would be to say he's the kind
of inspecter you don't want to show up if you are the seller !

I used a firm called ABI (on 25th St near University Village).  Phone
522-8077.

David Erickson is an engineer/contractor who is painstaking, explains
everything he does,  and writes a very detailed report (784-4964).

	Many thanks to those who responded.  I wound up using a gentleman 
named Charles Maslow (283-0960), a PE.  He wasn't the most voluble inspector
imaginable, but I followed him around asking questions and got a lot of good
feedback (on current conditions and on some possible remodelling).  He wrote 
an excellent report which I used to get the seller to repair some things, he 
also pointed out some things I would not have thought of (getting warranties
transferred, etc). 

	P.S. I locked in my mortgage on Thursday.  Today rates are down 1/8%.
Arrrrrrggggghhhhh.....

-- 
Rick Kint				UNIX Geek, College of Engineering
kint@engr.washington.edu		University of Washington, Seattle
Newsgroups: seattle.general
From: zintel@mdd.comm.mot.com (Mike Zintel)
Subject: Re: second try of the censorship source
Organization: Motorola, Mobile Data Division - Seattle, WA
Date: Mon, 13 Apr 1992 20:58:40 GMT

In article <3940013@iftccu.boeing.com> leslie@iftccu.boeing.com (Dan Leslie) writes:
>
>Recently I had the most fulfilling experience.  I single-handedly
>started,  promoted,  and followed through with HB2554.  

Why was this fulfilling ? The practical effect of HB2554, besides 
calling a lot of attention to offensive music, is nil. A savy music
store could run a "most obscene music" sale right now and make a mint
from people who never even would have thought to listen to this stuff
before your efforts. 

>It turned out to be the most controversial bill ever. 

Really ? Was this a goal ?

>The only people that were against this bill were either going to 
>lose money (from  the exploitation  of  children), or were ignorant
>of the lyrics.  

This statement implies a lack of judgement.

>The Minors who rebelled were afraid that a lot of their music would
>fall into this erotic music category.  

Let's remember that these very Minors are the people that we are
trying to protect from harm. I wonder how they will think and feel
when they discover that their judgement and opinions are considered
to be invalid unless they are identical to yours.

> For your  reading  enjoyment  here  is  a sample of the lyrics in question:

[ obscene lryics deleted ]

I don't like this stuff either.

Please think about the effects of your actions, not just the how 
fulfilling they may feel to you.
-- 
-----
Mike Zintel            
zintel@mdd.comm.mot.com not zintel@mdi.com anymore

Newsgroups: seattle.general
From: bruceki@polari.com
Subject: Re: NBC News report on Jerry Brown
Organization: Seattle Online Public Access Unix (206) 328-4944
Date: Thu, 9 Apr 1992 10:20:41 GMT

In article <MS-C.702788024.662824084.mrc@Tomobiki-Cho.CAC.Washington.EDU> mrc@Tomobiki-Cho.CAC.Washington.EDU (Mark Crispin) writes:
>Not just NBC news, but even the ultra-liberal Seattle Times (Monday

  Mark, in simple words:  THE TIMES IS NOT THE LIBERAL PAPER OF THE
TWO.  IT IS NOT "ULTRA LIBERAL".  ITS EDITORIAL CONTENT FALLS INTO
THE CONSERVATIVE CATAGORY.  IF YOU THINK THE TIMES IS LIBERAL, YOU
SHOULD PROBABLY LOOK CLOSELY AT YOUR DEFINITION OF LIBERAL.

  THE SEATTLE PI IS MUCH MORE LIBERAL THAN THE TIMES, IN SLANT OF
NEWS AND EDITORIAL COMMENTARY WITH THE SOLE (and I mean ONLY) 
exception being W.R. Hearst's Sunday column.  


Newsgroups: seattle.general
From: gilbert@mdd.comm.mot.com (John Gilbert)
Subject: Re: music censorship in WA state now in effect
Keywords: fascist censorship (shudder!)
Organization: Motorola, Mobile Data Division - Seattle, WA
Distribution: seattle
Date: Tue, 7 Apr 1992 18:46:29 GMT

In article <1992Apr6.225410.13286@u.washington.edu> iho@cac.washington.edu writes:
>nanook@eskimo.celestial.com (Robert Dinse) writes:
>
>>      I'm fed up with the government deciding for me what is good for me or my
>> children.  Where does this nameless woman get the idea she has the right to
>> control what MY kids listen to?
>
>At the risk of being branded a fascist, I'm gonna have to play devil's
>advocate here.  What this lady wanted was to try to control what her kids
>listen to.  If you feel your children can listen to a given CD or whatever,
>you can buy it for them.  This lady merely felt that things that were out
>of her control were influencing her children, and she did what she thought
>was the best thing for her children.  We're not talking about a universal
>ban here.

But if what you say is true, we out to be.

If what she wants is to "control what her kids listen to", then why
didn't she ask for ALL music to be restricted, and require approval?
Then she could pick and choose as she likes.

What she asked for was for some governmental agency to make a
VALUE JUDGEMENT (so she wouldn't have to pay attention) for ALL of
us.  What she is really after is to be able to PRESUME that any music
her kids get ahold of will be OK with her.  Then when she lets them
"play it repeatedly in the house" (according to the reports), she
won't have to tune in long enough to make the judgement for herself.

How is it that she has no control of her own children, and she expects
the law to do a better job?  Next thing you know, we'll all have to
file tooth-brusing reports to the surgeon general beacuse her kids
got cavities.

John
-- 
John Gilbert
gilbert@mdd.comm.mot.com
...!uunet!mdisea!gilbert
From: dcb@kopachuk.uucp (David Breneman)
Subject: Re: music censorship in WA state now in effect
Keywords: fascist censorship (shudder!)
Organization: Tacoma Screw Products, Inc.
Distribution: seattle
Date: Tue, 7 Apr 1992 16:34:18 GMT

In article <1992Apr6.225410.13286@u.washington.edu> iho@cac.washington.edu writes:
>
>At the risk of being branded a fascist, I'm gonna have to play devil's
>advocate here. 

OK, I'll advocate freedom and truth... :-)

>                What this lady wanted was to try to control what her kids
>listen to.  

I believe she was trying to control what *everyone's* kids listen to.

>                          This lady merely felt that things that were out
>of her control were influencing her children, and she did what she thought
>was the best thing for her children.

Things out of your control influence you every waking hour.  If she
thinks the government can do a better job of shaping her kids' live than
she can, she should petition a court to make then wards of the Sate.

>                                       We're not talking about a universal
>ban here.

It's better that the state establishes a music elite which can buy
albums others are not entitled to?  I have yet to hear whether is *is*
legal to *give* these albums to kids, or for kids to *posess* them,
or merely illegal to *sell* them to kids.  Does anybody out there know?

-- 
David Breneman     Sys Admin, Tacoma Screw Products, Inc. |  ____  ____  ____
dcb@tacoma.uucp              | SCREWIE the TSP CLOWN sez- |   /   /___  /___/ 
 ..!uunet!stephsf!tacoma!dcb |"Stainless steel bolts are  |  /   ____/ / 
CompuServe: 75760,1232       | ferrous but non-magnetic!" |