Newsgroups: rec.music.christian
Subject: TANGENT Re: "We Will Stand" stolen by Clinton
From: ajw@cbnews.cb.att.com (andrew.j.whitman)
Date: Mon, 9 Nov 1992 14:34:17 GMT
Organization: AT&T

In article <1992Nov8.144258.1487@miavx2.ham.muohio.edu> malee@miavx2.ham.muohio.edu writes:

(my post deleted)

>	You mock God well.  Perhaps you have neglected to remember that 
>"The fear of the Lord is the beginning of knowledge, but fools* despise 
>wisdom and discipline." (NIV)
>* The Hebrew words rendered fool in Proverbs, and often eslewhere in the 
>Old Testament, denote one who is morally deficient.

From Webster's Ninth:

satire - n. 1. a literary work holding up human vices and follies to
ridicule or scorn  2. trenchant wit, irony, or sarcasm used to expose 
and discredit vice or folly

It's apparently sinful to question someone's political thinking, but
okay to call the questioner a "fool" and "morally deficient," eh Matthew?  
Interesting exegesis.  

And for what it's worth, the *last* thing I want to do is mock God.
I *do* want to question the idea that George Bush's (or any other politicians')
views are to be accorded the authority of the Scriptures.  I also want
to question the idea that one political party represents God's views and
that another represents Satan's views.  If you felt that my post
was poking fun at such a view then you read me correctly.

>	Perhaps you should remember to encourage and/or correct your brother,
>but to mock both him and God is to tear yourself from salvation.  I agree that
>this is not the best newsgroup to post about this issue.  However, we are 
>brothers in Christ and as such we should not tear asunder the unity of the 
>Church with hate and arrogance.

Hate?  Arrogance?  Give me a break.  Let me spell it out.  I'm not
mocking God.  I'm not mocking my brother.  I don't even know who 
posted the original article I responded to, and I have no great desire 
to find out.  I'm poking fun at a *viewpoint*.  They key words here are
"fun" and "viewpoint".  Yes, there was a serious point to what I wrote,
but the point was that putting any politician on a godlike pedastal
is ludicrous.  It's absurd.  And if you didn't see the absurdity in 
my posting then you missed it completely.  

>	As for your defense against Clinton, at least Bush voiced his aversion
>to the slaughtering of children.  Abortion is murder!
>"Before I formed you in the womb I knew* you, before you were born I set you
>apart; I appointed you as a prophet to the nations." (NIV)
>* or chose 
>	Whether Bush meant what he said or not, at least he proposed a return to
>morality.  However, it seems that today people are less concerned with morality
>and knowing Christ and more concerned with economic worries and things of this 
>earth which will pass away.  

Yeah, yeah, yeah.  You sound like a fine Republican.  Good for you.  I
happen to agree with your comments about abortion.  But let me get this
straight.  A vote against Bush was a vote for immorality and the things
of this earth, right?  How do you explain the roughly 35% of evangelical
Christians who voted for Clinton?  Maybe they're all hopelessly
backslidden and out of touch with the Holy Spirit.  Or maybe they voted
on more than one issue, and just happened to disagree with you.

I find it more than a little amazing that a posting calling for unity
is willing to dismiss a significant portion of the church as being not
particularly concerned with morality and obsessed with earthly things.
Or are you willing to admit that maybe, just maybe, people who voted
for Clinton could actually hold to the same values and beliefs that
you do, and simply felt that Clinton might have been the better choice
to lead the country?

>The "freedom" to choose to only sin which is all
>this world can offer is not freedom.  True freedom comes from being free from 
>sin and knowing Christ and the wonderful things that He enables us to do 
>through His grace.
>	I say none of this to belittle anyone's opinion, or to boost my own ego.
>Rather, I say this so that you will think of your Christian brothers before 
>you seek to stone them.  We are one in Christ.

Yep.  And you might want to heed you own advice, Matthew.  In his victory
speech Bill Clinton paraphrased Phillipians 2 and exhorted Americans 
to put aside their differences and consider one another more important
than themselves.  What a novel concept.  You know what?  It's not
going to work because Christians are going to be bitching and moaning
for the next four years about the godless administration.  We all know 
that Clinton's lying anyway, right?  So I propose that we all ignore 
the Scriptural injunction that Clinton quoted and not give him the 
benefit of the doubt.  And by the way, Matthew, that's satire too. 

>Yours in Christ,
>
>	Matthew
>
>++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
>Matthew Aaron Lee       "Put on the full armor of God so that you can take    
>Miami University 	 your stand against the devil's schemes."
>@MIAVX2.HAM.MUOHIO.EDU 
>WARRIOR FOR CHRIST    	 EPHESIANS 6:11		TIME 2 B A2J!!
>+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Andy Whitman
AT&T Bell Laboratories, Columbus, Ohio
att!cblpn!ajw  or
ajw@cblpn.att.com

(who, by the way, did not vote for Bill Clinton)