HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: mccomt@aix.rpi.edu (Todd Michel McComb)
Subject: Re: Define "Well Tempered"
Organization: Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute, Troy, NY
Date: Fri, 22 Jan 1993 22:24:21 GMT

In article <1jpnneINNlcq@calvin.usc.edu> William Alves writes:
>Just for the sake of clearing up any confusion, here are some definitions:

>"Well" temperament: A class of temperaments common in the 18th century
>	in which all keys are playable, but the more common keys have
>	consonant intervals (closer to just) than the less common keys.
>	It is assumed that Bach used some kind of temperament in this
>	category.

Indeed.  Many well-tempered usages in modern early music recordings have
concentrated on versions in which thirds are given preference; as this
relates to specific intervals in a large group of keys, would you say
that this fits into your definition of well temperament or perhaps as a
variation on your definition of circle temperament?

>Equal temperament: A tuning system in which all the adjacent intervals
>	are exactly the same. In the case of 12-tone equal temperament,
>	each semitone has the ratio of the twelfth root of two.

Perhaps you can go on to explain enharmonicty as it relates to practical
tuning?  I am still not entirely clear on this.

T. M. McComb
From: gr@st-andrews.ac.uk (Gavin Ramsay)
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
Subject: Re: Who does Tchaikovsky well?
Date: 26 Jan 93 13:28:08 GMT
Organization: St. Andrews University, Scotland.

In article <1993Jan26.035008.25596@organpipe.uug.arizona.edu> tom@astro.as.arizona.edu (Thomas J. Trebisky) writes:
>
>I am in particular interested in good performances of his 5th and 6th
>Symphonies.  Yes, I have the Penguin guide, but (sigh) whenever I go
>to the CD store, there are always tantalizing things (which are not in
>the guide).
>
>Anyway, the net has saved me from disaster before (like the 1980 set
>of Karajan Beethoven Symphonies), so I submit the following for comment.
>
>Tchaikovsky Symphony #5 -- Bernstein, DG Dig.
>Tchaikovsky Symphony #6 -- Bernstein, DG Dig.
>Tchaikovsky Symphony #6 -- Dutoit, Montreal SO, London Dig.
>
For truly great interpretations of the above, try Mravinsky and the
Leningrad Phil. on DG. For a more modern performance (not that there
is anything wrong with the DG '60's sound), try Jansons and the 
Oslo Phil.on Chandos.
gav
From: gpalo@digi.lonestar.org (Gerry Palo)
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
Subject: Re: Bach Art of Fugue
Date: 26 Jan 93 16:51:55 GMT
Organization: DSC Communications Corp, Plano, TX

>  Thus the mighty Art of the Fugue ends uncompleted.  And
>yet, in its unfinished state it is a monument of musical
>art far greater than most finished work.  It traverses the
>outermost expanses of human reach.  Its creator died before
>he could complete the journey, but he took us further than we
>might ever otherwise go.
>
>-- 
>Chuck Forsberg WA7KGX          ...!tektronix!reed!omen!caf 

Has anyone ever heard or played Tovey's hypothetical construction of the
last Contrapunctus?  He never claimed it to be more than an exercise, 
but based on his own genius and his intimate knowledge of the Art of
the Fugue, I can imagine it would be very instructive, and perhaps 
even reach moments of greatness.  Does anybody here know it?

Gerry Palo (73237.2006@compuserve.com)
From: kint@rio.engr.washington.edu (Rick Kint)
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
Subject: Perahia, Pratt
Date: 26 Jan 1993 21:48:17 GMT
Organization: University of Washington, Seattle
Distribution: world
NNTP-Posting-Host: rio.engr.washington.edu

	WRT the old thread about Murray Perahia cancelling concerts, I just
received a letter stating that his appearance in Seattle Feb 14 has been
cancelled due to an injury to his hand.  The only other detail the letter
gives is that "the nature of his injury will prevent us from re-scheduling
his performance this season."

	The replacement they lined up is Awadagin Pratt, 1992 Naumburg
Winner.  Does anyone know anything about this gentleman?  He's playing
an excellent program: Franck, Prelude Chorale & Fugue;  Beethoven, Op. 110;
Bach, Chromatic Fantasia & Fugue;  Brahms, Handel Variations.  But I paid
a premium price for tickets to Perahia on the basis of his being one of the
giants of the keyboard;  I'm a little hesitant about paying the same price
for someone unfamiliar, prize-winner or no.

	Thanks in advance.

-- 
Rick Kint				UNIX Geek, College of Engineering
kint@engr.washington.edu		University of Washington, Seattle
From: m1wrp99@milo.uucp (William R. Palenske)
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
Subject: Re: theodore Presser
Date: 26 Jan 93 14:55:48 GMT
Organization: Federal Reserve Board, Wash, DC

twan@cv.ruu.nl (Twan Maintz) writes:
>Can anybody give me the address of the Theodore Presser 
>music publishing company in the USA? (Nobody in europe
>seems to know...)

according to _books in print: publishers_

Theodore Presser
Presser Place
Bryn Mawr, PA  19010

1 215 525 3636


-- 
   Bill Palenske            Board of Governors of the Federal Reserve System
   m1wrp99@fed.frb.gov      Washington, D.C.  20551
   uunet!fed!wrp            DISCLAIMER: MY OPINIONS ARE MY OWN.
Organization: Physics, Carnegie Mellon, Pittsburgh, PA
From: chem91@Elroy.UH.EDU ("Bill Harrison (713)-743-2789")
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
Subject: Re: Music ruined by movies
Date: 26 Jan 93 15:17:16 GMT
Article-I.D.: menudo.1k3klsINNpam
Reply-To: chem91@Elroy.UH.EDU
Organization: University of Houston
NNTP-Posting-Host: elroy.uh.edu

In article <1993Jan25.232033.20105@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu>, mvalinis@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (Michael J Valinis) writes:
>I'm not sure that anyone has mentioned this one yet, but what about 
>"Rollerball", one of my favorite movies (no flames please!!).  It employs 
>Bach's Toccata & Fugue in d and the Albinoni Adagio VERY effectively.

And the last movement of Shostakovich 5... 

>-- 
>
>>+>  Michael J. Valinis   -=+<*>+=-   mvalinis@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu  <+<
>=>+>      "The flute is not an instrument with a good moral effect.      <+<=
>>=>+>=>               It is too exciting."  - Aristotle               <=<+<=<

Bill


+ ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~\               /~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~+
| Bill Harrison,            \             /       "Be as radical as... |
| University of Houston, TX  >-----------<         reality itself"     |
| CHEM91@JETSON.BITNET      /             \                V. I. Lenin |
+ ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~/               \~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~+
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
From: beascoea@colossus.cs.rpi.edu (Alex Beascoechea)
Subject: Re: Don Giovanni
Organization: Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute, Troy, NY
Date: Sat, 23 Jan 1993 03:46:17 GMT

In article <C187op.Kvn@news.udel.edu> conrad@brahms.udel.edu (Jon Conrad) writes:
>>In article <1993Jan19.222258.1273@osf.org> coren@speed.osf.org (Robert Coren) writes:
>
>>>What's (deliberately) funny about Donna Anna? You're not allowed to
>>>include what <insert non-favorite soprano here> sounds like in "Non mi
>>>dir".
>
>Actually, there is something, if we go by 18th-century attitudes that I
>hope have been left behind:
>
>It's reported that the first audiences at Don Giovanni found Donna
>Anna's narration of the stranger's (Don G, whom she thought at first was
>Don O) hilarious, because depending on how one interprets the adverb
>in "*afterwards* I realized it was not you," they figured that the
>stranger "had his way with her" before she figured it out.  Yuck yuck,
>eh?  :-(
>
>Jon Alan Conrad

Also in the same scene, there is a couple of moments when it is clear that 
maintaining this double interpretation was intentional. All of them
using "poor" Don Ottavio as a vehicle.

D.A: But then I realized that I was mistaken.
D.O: Oh God! Continue...
....
D.A:he held me so tightly that I thought myself lost.
D.O: Perfido! E al fin???? (this one is especially funny). And the suspense
the music conveys.
.....
D.A: I managed to break free.
D.O: I breathe again.

But I think this is as valid an interpretation now as in 18th century, and
it is more fun than assuming Donna Anna is just saying the plain truth. 
At least is clear which one is the one Don Ottavio first thought about
(he did not dared to ask till scene XIII)..

Alex.
-- 
----------------- Alex Beascoechea -----------------
alex@ecse.rpi.edu beascoea@cs.rpi.edu beasca@rpi.e
----------------------------------------------------
From: xilin@northstar.dartmouth.edu
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
Subject: Re: Bach's Sonata & Partita Vln Solo: Recording recommendations
Date: 22 Jan 93 02:36:09 GMT
Organization: Project NORTHSTAR, Dartmouth College, Hanover, NH

In article <leblanc.727604280@knuth.mtsu.edu> leblanc@knuth.mtsu.edu (Stuart LeBlanc) writes:
>Allow me to strenuously recommend the late-eighties recording by Shlomo
>Mintz.  It is absolutely beautiful, spacious, flawless playing, devoid
>of the affectations (radical and seemingly irrational variations in tone,
>incomprehensible tempi in slow movements, unwarranted emphasis on a
>contrapuntal voice deemed "most important", etc.) found with
>practitioners of nineteenth-century interpretive conventions.  The 1975
>Milstein recording (he has recorded the cycle three times I believe) is
>the most widely circulated, and thus the most probable to be
>recommended, but it suffers from infidelity to what is now better
>understood as the baroque style.
>
>I haven't heard the Perlman recording yet (was looking at it last night
>in fact), but in Perlman's golden hands nothing could be bad.  If you
>are an original instruments aficionado then Sergiu Luca has a very
>good, more intellectually engaging recording.  But definitely don't make
>your decision until you've heard the Mintz...  listen to the C Major
>Sonata; the fugue is one of the most glorious performances you'll ever
>hear... the Chaccone will take your breath away...
>


Agreed!!!!
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
From: mccomt@aix.rpi.edu (Todd Michel McComb)
Subject: Re: Morales review
Organization: Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute, Troy, NY
Date: Mon, 25 Jan 1993 20:39:28 GMT

In article <1k1cqgINNaks@shelley.u.washington.edu> Rick Kint writes:

Another note on Morales which I neglected to include in my review:  His
contemporary reputation was also very high in the mainstream of polyphonic
composing.  He spent ten years as a papal singer in Rome, working with
Arcadelt among others.  In at least one late sixteenth century account,
Morales is said to have been the greatest and most influential composer in
Rome between Josquin and Palestrina.

>	Morales wrote an incredible motet, "Emendemus in melius" (or something
>close) which was in the HAM and/or Masterpieces of Music before 1750.  I found
>a recording on LP a dozen years ago, by a collegiate group.  Does anyone know 
>of a more recent recording?  It isn't in Schwann, but that doesn't mean
>much, and I haven't seen one in my rummagings at Tower.

The only other CD of Morales' music I have seen mention of is a disc in the
Berkeley catalog on the Christophorus label (which I have never heard of)
which contains a couple of motets.

T. M. McComb

Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
From: tony@cns.nyu.edu (Tony Movshon)
Subject: Meistersinger
Reply-To: tony@cns.nyu.edu
Organization: New York University
Date: Tue, 26 Jan 1993 04:20:11 GMT

Sunday's New York Times featured an extraordinarily mean-spirited piece
by Edward Rothstein, in which he revives and rehashes the old argument
that Meistersinger is yet *another* example of Wagner's anti-semitism,
because Beckmesser is a thinly-veiled caricature of a Jew (as well as of
Wagner favorite critic, the Brahms champion Hanslick).

I find the general argument about Wagner's anti-semitism tedious, mostly
because it does not seem to me to explain anything important about the
music and drama. I find it particularly irritating when applied to
Meistersinger, because of its position as the warmest and most human of
the Wagner operas (and for me the greatest, unless I've heard
Goetterdaemmerung recently ... ). In any case I confidently expect the
music to sweep Rothstein's piece out of my head when I go to see the
new production on Saturday night.

If you haven't read the Times yet, skip the Rothstein and turn over the
page to read a nice piece by r.m.c. regular Jon Alan Conrad on records
of little-known English romantic symphonists ...

------------------------------------------------------------------------
					Tony Movshon

Internet:  movshon@nyu.edu		Howard Hughes Medical Institute
					Center for Neural Science
					New York University
Phone:	   (212) 998-7880		4 Washington Place, room 809
Fax:	   (212) 995-4183		New York, NY 10003
------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: leblanc@knuth.mtsu.edu (Stuart LeBlanc)
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
Subject: Re: Classical Music for modern instrument
Date: 24 Jan 93 07:04:11 GMT
Article-I.D.: knuth.leblanc.727901643
Organization: Dept of Comp Science, Middle Tenn State Univ, Murfreesboro, TN
NNTP-Posting-Host: knuth.mtsu.edu

>It sounds like you are looking for, not just harmonically creative
>music played on an electric guitar, but harmonically creative rock-based
>music. This is a lot tougher, partly because rock is in some sense
>deliberately immature, and when it gets old, it gets stale.  There's a Robert
>Christgau quote:"What the guys in [the band] U.K. don't understand is that it's
>not difficult to rock out in 7/4 time, or even impressive.  It's 
>impossible."

Very well said.  Which explains why the "art-rock" items in my music
collection hardly ever get played, whereas I still have a pronounced
taste for popular music in its less pretentious forms.  There are a
*few* notable exceptions though, such as King Crimson's efforts over the
past decade; it would be difficult to classify that as "rock" music
though...

Stuart LeBlanc
Guitar Instructor
MTSU Dept. of Music
leblanc@knuth.mtsu.edu
From: dgold@basso.actrix.gen.nz (Dale Gold)
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
Subject: Re: Classical Music for modern instrument
	<1jpbt0$1fm@agate.berkeley.edu> <1993Jan23.033540.11775@colorado.edu>
	<Jan.24.02.13.23.1993.21034@ruhets.rutgers.edu>
    <EIJKHOUT.93Jan24203956@cupid.cs.utk.edu>
Date: 27 Jan 93 16:47:18 PST
Organization: New Zealand Symphony Orchestra

Quoted from <EIJKHOUT.93Jan24203956@cupid.cs.utk.edu> by eijkhout@cupid.cs.utk.edu (Victor Eijkhout):
> In article <Jan.24.02.13.23.1993.21034@ruhets.rutgers.edu> bweiner@ruhets.rutgers.edu (Benjamin Weiner) writes:
> 
>   The electric bass is even less of a new instrument since
>   one of its major raisons d'etre is simply that it is less of a pain in the
>   ass to carry around.
> 
> I take offense! You can not separate the history of the mere
> materials from the playing techniques that have evolved during
> the lifetime of the instrument. On an electric bass you can play
> harmonic slides, polyphonic tapped lines, hammering, and probably a
> couple of techniques more that don't exist on upright.

I take offense!  :-) All of those techniques *started* on the acoustic
bass.  (speaking bass-wise that is.  Violins and guitars have been using
all of them but tapping for eons, I guess).  Granted, except for harmonic
slides, most of them aren't very effective on a double bass without
amplification, and I do agree with the rest of your comment.

Cheers,
Dale

--
- dgold@basso.actrix.gen.nz
- Korokoro, New Zealand
From: shimpei@leland.Stanford.EDU (Shimpei Yamashita)
Subject: Re: Flute/Violin/Piano trio
Organization: DSG, Stanford University, CA 94305, USA
Distribution: usa
Date: Thu, 21 Jan 93 09:18:51 GMT

Does anyone know a good music from the Romantic period for a flute-violin-
piano trio? I need a score, not a recording. True, Telemann and folks
wrote reams and reams of literature for two violins and harpsichord that can
be played by this kind of trio, and some (not a lot) 20th century works
are available, but we would like to perform works from 19th century for a
change. Two violins and piano is okay, too, if the 1st violin part can be
played on the flute. If you know of any, please post or mail me. Thanks.



-- 
Shimpei Yamashita, Stanford University
shimpei@leland.stanford.edu
"You are who you are, and if you are not, you're not you." --Sparky Anderson
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
From: conrad@brahms.udel.edu (Jon Conrad)
Subject: Re: Schipa, Gigli, and Tagliavini
Organization: University of Delaware
Date: Mon, 25 Jan 1993 14:25:16 GMT

In article <1993Jan24.050005.1912@walter.bellcore.com> hsong@ardour.bellcore.com (G. Hugh Song) writes:

>Whenever I hear the voices of tenors of good ol'days, I get puzzled.
>How much would they be appraised if they were living these days.

They'd be canonized!  They'd certainly sing anybody living off the stage

>Caruso, Schipa, Gigli, ...

Though perhaps not Schipa.  Irreplaceable and charming as he was, he was
conceded to have problems even in his own time; his voice was
exceptionally "short" at the top, for one thing.

>Among dramatic tenor voices, there are quite a difference among
>Caruso, Del Monaco, and Domingo.   

I wouldn't say that Domingo can be considered a dramatic tenor at all.
Certainly he has never described himself as such.

>People say,  "Caruso is
>"legendary".   So he must be much greater than others."   But who
>knows.  

Anybody who listens carefully and hears that Caruso maintained his
liquid quality, his ability to give and take volume and color, pretty
nearly throughout his range.  Not to mention the musical and expressive
use to which he puts his skills.  These are actually fairly objective
matters, as criticism goes, and can be verified by listening.

>50 years later.  Domingo's voice will be again legendary, too.

Well, compared to what they'll have then, he WILL be legendary.  But his
shortfall in comparison to Caruso will still be apparent.  I like
Domingo a lot.  His vocal color and style appeal to me, and I've enjoyed
the performances of his that I've seen, very much.  But he does not
choose to (or else cannot) provide the shifting colors and nuances that
Caruso does, and that give so much extra life to the music he sings.
He's often content with a rough runthrough and the basically appealing
sound of his voice.

>Me?  I like Del Monaco's voice the most with all his roughness for 
>Italian dramatic tenor roles.

For the DRAMATIC tenor roles he's probably more suitable than the other
two (though Caruso was growing into them).  But he was definitely unable
to do much varying of the voice; he usually had just one way to sing any
given phrase.  This again is objectively verifiable, and must be
admitted as a limitation (along with the satifyingly brazen sound of the
voice itself, as an asset).  Listen to any of his recordings of Otello,
live or studio, and hear his problems with the Love Duet.

Conclusion: fandom, whether on behalf of old or new singers, is no
substitute for using ones ears and judgement.

Jon Alan Conrad
From: david@xlnt.com (David Johnson)
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
Subject: Re: Bach's Sonata & Partita Vln Solo: Recording recommendations
Date: 28 Jan 93 01:52:43 GMT
Organization: XLNT Designs, Inc (XDI)

This should be in the FAQ.  This same subject comes up every three
months or so.

My favorite recording of these works is by Nathan Milstein on DG.
It sounds as if he is possessed by demons at times.  I have not heard
any performances as good as Milstein's, including one by "can do no
wrong" Jacha Heifetz.

-- 
David Johnson
XLNT Designs, Inc. (XDI)
david@xlnt.com
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
From: mccomt@aix.rpi.edu (Todd Michel McComb)
Subject: Re: Define "Well Tempered"
Organization: Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute, Troy, NY
Date: Mon, 25 Jan 1993 19:42:51 GMT

In article <1k1bm6INNqli@calvin.usc.edu> William Alves writes:
>In article <1993Jan22.190740.16225@Princeton.EDU> Roger Lustig writes:
>>In his [Bach's] time
>>it was near impossible to implement true equal temperament; the one he
>>used had the advantage of feasibility.

>Being one who used to regularly tune harpsichords in equal temperament
>by ear, what does this mean? It's true that most well- and meantone
>temperaments are far easier and less time consuming, but equal tempera-
>ment is hardly "near impossible."

Perhaps this is greatly facilitated by having been exposed to so much
equal temperament during your life?  I can imagine that the first person
to try to implement such a tuning may have had considerable less confidence
about what it should sound like.

T. M. McComb
From: kint@rio.engr.washington.edu (Rick Kint)
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
Subject: re: Anyone heard of Gliere?
Date: 23 Jan 1993 06:25:50 GMT
Organization: University of Washington
Distribution: world
NNTP-Posting-Host: rio.engr.washington.edu

In article <1jn3pcINNddl@MINERVA.CIS.YALE.EDU>, ronthal-adam@yale.edu (Adam Ronthal) writes:
> 
|> All I know about Gliere is that he wrote a very cool concerto for Horn and
|> Orchestra.  It's recently been re-released on Philips (It was out of print
|> for a while) and it is definitely worth picking this up.

	Nothing personal, but the Seattle Symphony just did it and I thought
it was the most banal thing I'd ever heard, even beating out David Diamond's
2nd Violin Concerto.  I mean, I looked up "insipid" in the dictionary and they
had the second theme from the first movement, in music notation.  Maybe it was
the performance?  It certainly gave the soloist (John Cerminano [or something 
close]) a workout, especially in the cadenza.  To be fair, the way the brass
chorale faded into the strings in the last movement was cool.

	If one needs a Gliere CD, I'd get an abridged Ilya Murometz first.

-- 
Rick Kint				UNIX Geek, College of Engineering
kint@engr.washington.edu		University of Washington, Seattle
From: edente@pearl.tufts.edu
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
Subject: Stravinsky's The Rake's Progress
Date: 28 Jan 93 04:37:05 GMT
Organization: Tufts University - Medford, MA

I tried this question a couple of months ago and didn't get any responses,
so, what the heck, I'll try once more.
On a recital disc that I particularly treasure,
 Dawn Upshaw sings Annie Truelove's aria-cabeletta from Stravinsky's
<<The Rake's Progress>>.  The piece is magnificent, as far as I'm concerned,
as is its performance. I'd call it a _tour de force_ if that wasn't a
much overused term.  I know nothing about the rest of the opera.  Can
it possibly be as exciting as this selection from it? I've never read
any reviews of any performances.
Any thoughts?
Ed Dente
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
From: snripe@informatik.uni-stuttgart.de (Sailendra Nripendra)
Subject: Re: Sibelius suggestions?
Originator: merkel@bs4
Organization: Informatik, Uni Stuttgart, Germany
Date: Thu, 21 Jan 1993 16:59:53 GMT

In article <1993Jan20.030456.20687@dgbt.doc.ca>, ted@dgbt.doc.ca (Ted Grusec) writes:
[stuff deleted]
|>
|> At his frequent worst are the tone poems and such.
|> --

> Worst? Oh my, there's no accounting for taste...
> Vive la difference!

I wondered why nobody suggested the incidental music THE TEMPEST;
the prelude part (op. 109?) is an extraordinary piece of orchestral
music. 
It's a shame that Horst Stein's interpretation of the tempest (with 
the Orchestre de la Suisse Romande) is no longer available on CD. I
heard it once broadcasted by an Italian station and was really moved.

---
S. Nripendra
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
From: coren@speed.osf.org (Robert Coren)
Subject: Re: Uses of technology was Re: The Roman "Tosca"
Organization: Open Software Foundation
Date: Thu, 21 Jan 1993 23:35:24 GMT

In article <1993Jan21.131727.13722@lloyd.Camex.COM>, chrisi@lloyd.Camex.COM (Chris Ischay) writes:
> I for one believe that Wagner would have gone wild with technology.  Anyone
> who in the 1860s wanted to dangle singers from ropes so they'd look like
> they were swimming underwater as they sang would have a lot of fun today.
> Special effects.  Studio recording.  Video.  MIDI.  What if Peter Sellars,
> Glenn Gould and Richard Wagner all collaborated in a video production of
> the Ring?

I've been fantasizing about a cinematic _Ring_ for nigh onto 30 years
now. But I'm not planning on letting Sellars or Gould have anything to
do with *my* version, thank you.
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical