HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: aar001@acad.drake.edu
Subject: ADM Series Info...
Organization: Drake University, Des Moines, Iowa, USA
Date: Mon, 25 Jan 1993 01:56:13 GMT


     Whoever wanted this (my Usnet connectin burped and erased the message)
     Here is the info you wanted for the ADM series terminals...

     I am currently using an ADM5 and let me give you some advice,
     invest in a new teminal!!!  I am getting a Wyse 50 on Monday
     so I guess that you know my stance on the ADM and VAX/VMS!

     I hope that this will help you...  P.S.  If you want to upgrade
     to an ADM5 drop me a note... I can make a REALLY Reasonable offer!  *grin*

==================================================================

l5|adm5|5|lsi adm5:\
        :cr=^M:do=^J:nl=^J:bl=^G:\
        :cd=\EY:ce=\ET:do=^J:kb=^H:kh=^^:\
        :ma=^Hh^Jj^Kk^Ll^^H:se=\EG:sg#1:so=\EG:tc=adm3aplus:
la|adm3a|3a|lsi adm3a:\
        :am:cr=^M:do=^J:nl=^J:bl=^G:\
        :le=^H:bs:cm=\E=%+ %+ :cl=1^Z:co#80:ho=^^:li#24:ma=^K^P:nd=^L:up=^K:
lb|adm3a+|3a+|adm3aplus:\
        :kl=^H:kd=^J:ku=^K:kr=^L:tc=adm3a:


 ---------------------------------------------------------------

                                   Hope it helped,
                                   Andy R.

 _____                                                                   _____
( ___ )-----------------------------------------------------------------( ___ )
 |   |                                      ||   AAR001@ACAD.DRAKE.EDU   |   |
 |   |          />     Sir FireFrost        ||                           |   |
 |   |         /<                           ||   PHONE: (515) 271-2380   |   |
 |   | [\\\\\\(O):::<=====================- ||                           |   |
 |   |         \<                           ||   ANDREW RUSSELL          |   |
 |   |          \>                          ||   2900 Forest Ave, Apt #9 |   |
 |___|          (Still Working on Ultima V) ||   Des Moines, IA 50311    |___|
(_____)-----------------------------------------------------------------(_____)
Newsgroups: comp.terminals,comp.editors
From: tone@leland.Stanford.EDU (Tony Lin)
Subject: Cursor Control !
Organization: DSG, Stanford University, CA 94305, USA
Date: Sat, 23 Jan 93 23:56:55 GMT

Hi everyone!

   Does anyone know of a standard way of turning the cursor off on VT100
terminal emulators?  I'm programming in C and using the curses library,
but couldn't find anything about how to shut off the cursor.  When I
wprintw to different parts of the screen, the cursor flickers back
and forth and is quite annoying.  Anyone know of a way to fix this?
All hints will be greatly appreciated!  E-mail replies direct to 
tone@leland.Stanford.EDU thanks.


						Tony Lin


Newsgroups: comp.terminals
From: kennehra@craft.camp.clarkson.edu (Rich"TheMan"Kennehan)
Subject: Re: ESC[1? in VT100
Keywords: vt100 esc
Organization: Clarkson University
Date: Sun, 24 Jan 1993 19:13:37 GMT



Hi.  I just recently got playing around with escape sequences on 
terminals (tons of fun with E-mail!! hee hee hee) and the escape
sequence you mention looks like part of the command ESC[1;1H which
will put the characters typed after the "H" at position 1,1 on the
screen.  For example, to put  "cat" at line 20, column 5,
type ESC[20;5Hcat 

- Rich 
  kennehra@logic.camp.clarkson.edu
From: albrecht@csd4.csd.uwm.edu (Chad Edward Albrecht)
Newsgroups: comp.terminals
Subject: DEC VT100 Terminal types??
Date: 25 Jan 93 16:22:24 GMT
Article-I.D.: uwm.1k1440INN8a4
Organization: University of Wisconsin - Milwaukee
NNTP-Posting-Host: 129.89.7.4

I have a problem!!!  I have (3) DEC VT100 terminals that I am hooking up to
a PC using Alloy's Multiware and Terminal access panel (trademark).  I need
to set the terminals up to ANSI emulation....Is this possible???  HELP!!
Thanks in advance!

--
>><<>><<>><<>><<>><<>><<>><<>><<>><<>><<>><<>><<>><<>><<>><<>><<>><<>><<>><<>>
|  Respond to any of these adresses:    |   UWM-CSD UNIX/MICRO CONSULTANT    |
|  --------------------------------	|      PHONE # (414) 229-6215        |
|  albrecht@csd4.csd.uwm.edu            |              (414) 229-6151        |
|  albrecht@convex.csd.uwm.edu		|  				     |
|  acct146@carroll1.cc.edu		|       [STANDARD DISCLAIMER]        |
|============================================================================|   The Quote for the day is:

Canada Bill Jone's Motto:
	It's morally wrong to allow suckers to keep their money.

Supplement:
	A .44 magnum beats four aces.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Newsgroups: comp.terminals
From: kg@myan.uc.edu (Ramaswamy Krishnan)
Subject: Can you identify this terminal?
Originator: rkrishna@quest.ece.uc.edu
Reply-To: kg@myan.uc.edu
Organization: Unversity of Cincinnati
Date: Thu, 21 Jan 1993 19:46:13 GMT

I need to identify a terminal - manufacturer, terminal name etc.
so I can get a manual for it and set up a termcap entry.  Any help
from you net-folks will be appreciated very much.

The terminal has the name "MAI Basic Four" in the front.
In the back it says "Made in Korea".

I tried some popular termcap entries, and it seems to work best as
TVI950-b (basic TVI950).  However, there are some glitches now and
then and the terminal gets into some mode(s) that freeze the keyboard.

The terminal has a separate base on which the CRT part is mounted so
the screen can be rotated left/right/up/down.  The base has a rs232
port and a printer port at the back.  The power switch is at the
left side of the base (toward the front).

It has a paper white screen with reverse video.  The terminal and
keyboard color are white.  The screen has a status line at the top
separated from the rest of the screen by a thin line.

Some of the Words that Appear on the status line are : "Cp" (meaning
CAPS is on), and "Bk" (don't know what it is but it freezes keyboard).

The terminal Setup Screen is got by pressing <Function><Numpad 0>.
The setup screen has 2 columns of setup parameters.  We have
to use the arrow keys from NumPad to toggle values.

The keyboard looks similar to vt100 keyboard with num keypad.
However, it has keys F1 to F12 as the topmost row of the keyboard
and Esc key is at the right corner with backspace below it and delete
below that.  There are no separate arrow keys - <Shift><NumPad5> is
<LeftArrow> etc. as in PCs.

Some keys have a 2nd function written in red.  To use these functions,
these keys have to be pressed with the red <function> key located at the
bottom right of keyboard.  For example, <Function><Numpad 0> is Terminal
Setup.

The terminal seems to be fairly new - made in '89 and has features of
most nice terminals such as Setup from keypad (not jumpers), speed upto
19200, screen saver option, etc.  It even has about 8 language modes.

So much for details.

If you know the manufacturer, have a manual for it, know how to use it,
or even better, have a termcap entry for it, be assured that you will
help a soul in distress to get onto the net :)

Thanks in advance.

--
|/ /~_    Ramaswamy G. Krishnan   | (513) 556-0234 | ML 16, Univ. of Cincinnati
|\ \_|  kg@myan.uc.edu (Internet) |  fax :  x-3288 | Cincinnati, OH 45221-0016
Newsgroups: comp.terminals
Subject: Questions about Data General Dasher emulation.
From: scott@nic.gac.edu (Scott Hess)
Date: 23 Jan 93 01:08:32
Distribution: world
Organization: Is a sign of weakness
NNTP-Posting-Host: nic.gac.edu

A couple months ago I wrote a Data General D200 emulator for a
client.  Now it appears that they could use a more elaborate
emulation which includes some block-mode abilities and possible
some graphics abilities.

Unfortunately, my current sources (sources being people, not source
code :-) aren't able to take me any further in my road to
understanding ... so, I turn to the net.  I'm looking for any
good/juicy/explanatory information about Data General terminals,
be they newer or older than the D200/D210.  This might include such
things as manuals, good termcap/terminfo entries (I've got some
minimal entries that don't tell me any more than I already know),
or phone numbers to call.

Thanks,
--
scott hess <shess@ssesco.com>                        <To the BatCube, Robin>
12901 Upton Avenue South, #326  Burnsville, MN 55337 (612) 895-1208 Anytime!
From: gwyn@smoke.brl.mil (Doug Gwyn)
Newsgroups: comp.terminals
Subject: Re: Another approach to the Adm3a+?
Date: 26 Jan 93 15:15:35 GMT
Organization: U.S. Army Ballistic Research Lab, APG MD.

In article <C1FC9D.L7x@usenet.ucs.indiana.edu> mphall@nickel.ucs.indiana.edu
(Michael Hall) writes:
>	This leads me to think there may be a function within the stty
>command that sets space characters to either destructive or merely
>cursor-forward commands

No, "stty" merely affects future behavior of the tty handler portion
of the operating system; it does not transmit anything to the terminal.

While some of the LSI ADM family of terminals can be configured to have
code 32 (space) act as a non-destructive cursor-right action, it is
really not a good idea, as many programs expect the usual space
character to act destructively.  Code 12 (ctrl-L) does act as a cursor-
right command regardless of switch settings, and thus this capability
is available even when the normal, destructive space is configured.

I've seen quite a few incorrect ADM termcaps; here is the set I use.

#
# LSI ADM-3A, ADM-3A+, ADM-5
# The following ADM-3A switch settings are assumed for normal operation:
#	SPACE		U/L_DISP	CLR_SCRN	24_LINE
#	CUR_CTL		LC_EN		AUTO_NL		FDX
# Other switches may be set for operator convenience or communication
# requirements.  I recommend
#	DISABLE_KB_LOCK	LOCAL_OFF	103		202_OFF
#	ETX_OFF		EOT_OFF
la|adm3a|LSI ADM-3A:\
	:am:bl=^G:cl=1^Z:cm=\E=%+ %+ :co#80:cr=^M:do=^J:ho=^^:kd=^J:kl=^H:\
	:kr=^L:ku=^K:le=^H:li#24:ma=^K^P:nd=^L:rs=^N:sf=^J:up=^K:\
	:bs:nl=^J:
lb|adm3a+|LSI ADM-3A+:\
	:tc=adm3a:
l5|adm5|LSI ADM-5:\
	:cd=\EY:ce=\ET:kb=^H:kh=^^:se=\EG:sg#1:so=\EG:tc=adm3a:
Newsgroups: comp.terminals
From: winarske@well.sf.ca.us (Amy Winarske)
Subject: Need info on HP to IBM communication
Summary: Seeking references
Keywords: tokenring, X
Organization: Whole Earth 'Lectronic Link
Date: Mon, 25 Jan 1993 03:49:20 GMT



I'm looking for info on how to get the output from a window on an HP
to token ring?  Can I address a token ring like a socket address
in X?  Any references of any sort would be much appreciated....

of course I'm in a rush....

Thanks very much.

-Amy Winarske
 amy@arasmith.com
 winarske@well.sf.ca.us
From: gwyn@smoke.brl.mil (Doug Gwyn)
Newsgroups: comp.terminals
Subject: Re: Terminfo databases free?
Date: 25 Jan 93 15:02:59 GMT
Organization: U.S. Army Ballistic Research Lab, APG MD.

In article <C1CCHp.4MF@rex.uokhsc.edu> benjamin-goldsteen@uokhsc.edu writes:
>      One thing in particular I need to resolve is that our
>Data General AViiON defines el1=\E[1K for vt100.  Our other
>UNIX's don't.  The thing is, when this is defined like that,
>this editor Joe doesn't work.  

Not surprising since the VT100 does not have a "clear to BOL"
capability (termcap "cb" = terminfo "el1").  You should translate
the VT100 termcap I have posted from time to time into terminfo
and use that instead.
Newsgroups: comp.terminals
From: jmnjeru@athena.mit.edu (James)
Subject: Tektronix emulator for PC
Organization: Massachusetts Institute of Technology
Date: Tue, 26 Jan 1993 02:59:48 GMT

please reply to jmnjeru@athena.mit.edu as i dont usually read
this group.
Thanks


Newsgroups: comp.terminals
From: mildram@xylogics.com (Doug Mildram )
Subject: Re: vt100test program?
Organization: Xylogics, Inc.
Date: Sun, 24 Jan 1993 22:44:48 GMT

I found the "vttest" gem 
(which when run proves that almost nothing is a true vt100 emul.)
in a cohort's directory.  I mailed it to the requestor, and will do the
same for anyone .  It's 71k uncompressed.
(or pick it up in ftp/pub/vttest.shar on xylogics.com 132.245.33.7 )

I believe it must be run interactively...has a main menu and such.
-doug

Newsgroups: comp.terminals
From: ben@rex.uokhsc.edu (Benjamin Z. Goldsteen)
Subject: Terminfo databases free?
Reply-To: benjamin-goldsteen@uokhsc.edu
Organization: Health Sciences Center, University of Oklahoma
Date: Sun, 24 Jan 1993 04:29:48 GMT

       I would like to have one terminfo database for all of our
UNIX machines -- some terminfo database have entries for some terminals,
other vendors ship others.  It would be nice then, if they are
the same, too...I have noticed that the way the function keys
are defined is different among xterm entries...  However,
do I have to worry about copyrights?  Has anybody already
put together such a suite?  I also wanted to make our termcap
and terminfo entries somewhat consistent...

      One thing in particular I need to resolve is that our
Data General AViiON defines el1=\E[1K for vt100.  Our other
UNIX's don't.  The thing is, when this is defined like that,
this editor Joe doesn't work.  
-- 
Benjamin Z. Goldsteen
Newsgroups: comp.cad.cadence
From: pas@jupitercmc.ca (Peter Stokes)
Subject: Re: getting all cellviews
Reply-To: pas@jupiter.ic.cmc.ca
Organization: Canadian Microelectronics Corporation
Date: Fri, 22 Jan 1993 20:36:05 GMT

In article <1993Jan22.084731.23928@Cadence.COM>, keiths@Cadence.COM (Keith Sabine) writes:
|> It's often difficult to find your way around the database in skill,
|> so here's a handy little skill utility to browse through just about
|> anything  - lists, defstructs, database objects etc. Just load it
|> and either invoke with a cellview in the current window or call it
|> directly with the object you want to browse e.g. a database object.
|> It brings up a browser window, clicking with the left button expands 
|> an object, clicking with the right button unexpands the object, 
|> clicking with the middle button gives you some other options.
|> Happy hacking!
|> 
|> Keith.
|> 

  < code deleted >

Thanks for the code Keith.   I'll give it a try 
when we get 4.2.1 (it doesn't seem to like 4.2a).

Of possible interest to others, pages 2-1 to 2-13
of Skill: Design Framework II Commands contain tables
of attributes of data management objects.

Cheers,
Peter

Peter A. Stokes ___________________________________ Voice: (613) 545-2923
Engineering Applications Support                      Fax: (613) 548-8104
Canadian Microelectronics Corporation        Email: pas@jupiter.ic.cmc.ca
Kingston, Ontario, Canada _______________________________________________
From: michaelm@pike.ee.mcgill.ca (Michael Moscovitch)
Newsgroups: comp.cad.cadence
Subject: Re: cellview to cellview
Date: 23 Jan 93 03:16:14 GMT
Organization: McGill University

In article <1j767dINN2e6@rave.larc.nasa.gov> rfh@pickett.noname writes:
>When we run composer without verilog, the cellview to cellview
>option doesn't work. If verilog is licensed there is no problem
>with this option. It seems like we should be able to go cellview
>to cellview w/o verilog. Any ideas?
>
>rhodson@pcs.cnu.edu

I have had this problem also in 4.2a composer. cellview to cellview or
pinlist to cellview did not work with only 21000. It did work with the
verilog interface or with skillDev. I think this should be fixed in 4.2.1
but I have not tried it out yet. 

Mike
michaelm@pike.ee.mcgill.ca
Newsgroups: comp.cad.cadence
From: dfs@doe.carleton.ca (David F. Skoll)
Subject: Edge2.1: How to convert voltage waveforms to logic waveforms?
Organization: Dept. of Electronics, Carleton University
Date: Tue, 26 Jan 1993 15:59:41 GMT

I have an 8-by-10 digital multiplier which I'm simulating using Hspice.
(!).  The problem is that I cannot look at the "logical" bus outputs,
because they are of type VOLTS, and Edge's waveform display won't let
me group them as a bus.  Is there any way I can somehow specify ranges
for Voh and Vol and convert Hspice's voltage output to a LOGIC type?

--
David F. SKoll

Newsgroups: comp.cad.cadence
From: pas@jupitercmc.ca (Peter Stokes)
Subject: Re: Edge2.1: How to convert voltage waveforms to logic waveforms?
Reply-To: pas@jupiter.ic.cmc.ca
Organization: Canadian Microelectronics Corporation
Date: Wed, 27 Jan 1993 20:45:45 GMT

In article <dfs.728063981@kehleyr>, dfs@doe.carleton.ca (David F. Skoll) writes:
|> I have an 8-by-10 digital multiplier which I'm simulating using Hspice.
|> (!).  The problem is that I cannot look at the "logical" bus outputs,
|> because they are of type VOLTS, and Edge's waveform display won't let
|> me group them as a bus.  Is there any way I can somehow specify ranges
|> for Voh and Vol and convert Hspice's voltage output to a LOGIC type?
|> David F. SKoll

David,

I don't know the answer to your question but the 
following MIGHT lead to a solution.   Essentially,
if you use STL to specify the circuit stimulus and
perform a simdiff, the resulting si.log file will
output lines like:

*Mismatch*  out       at time 9.9e-08 -  expected (voh)  simulated (2048)

There is a line in my STL source that reads

; specify voltage windows to define a input/outputs highs and lows
deflevel cmos vil=0.0 vih=5.0 vol=0.0 voh=5.0

I haven't pursued this but with some magic, you 
might be able to get a table of voh/vol's.

Peter

Peter A. Stokes ___________________________________ Voice: (613) 545-2923
Engineering Applications Support                      Fax: (613) 548-8104
Canadian Microelectronics Corporation        Email: pas@jupiter.ic.cmc.ca
Kingston, Ontario, Canada _______________________________________________
Newsgroups: comp.cad.cadence
From: jcooley@world.std.com (John Cooley)
Subject: Joining ESNUG
Organization: The E-mail Synopsys Users Group (ESNUG)
Date: Thu, 21 Jan 1993 05:41:14 GMT


  If you're using the Synopsys Design Compiler and/or their ATPG product, you 
  might be interested in joining the E-Mail Synopsys Users Group (ESNUG).

  What we are is a group of hardware designers from all over the world who
  wish to trade experiences, bug reports and the techniques that we've
  found that work best in getting a design from a behavioral description
  to a final fully tested product.  This is a grassroots forum independent
  of Synopsys, Inc.

  A Sample of What We Discuss:

	- Known Synopsys Compiler Bugs    - Implementing Boundry Scan

	- Mentor related issues    - EDIF related issues

	- Hierarchical Compliations   - design_analyzer   - JTAG

	- How Various ASIC Vendors Model Their Macros.   - Clock Constraints

	- Using ATPG Tools   - The Best Way To Write State Machines in Verilog

	- Using VHDL   - System Simulation vs. Synopsys Friendly Code

	- Clever Workarounds to Known Pitfalls   - Testing Strategies

  In order to insure an open discussion, but yet keep our respective managers
  happy in having our company's projects remain SECRET, submissions to be 
  posted to the ESNUG mailing list can be stripped of identifying engineers 
  and company names if so requested.

  In addition, to further secure privacy and to avoid e-mail headers that
  are hundreds of names long, each mailing is a batch of singlely addressed 
  e-mail letters.

  If you want to join ESNUG, please send me e-mail to "jcooley@world.std.com"
  saying you wish to join and why.  (Please don't send a copy of this letter
  back to me, I know what you're refering to when you're writing.)

					- John Cooley
					  ESNUG Moderator

 ===========================================================================
 Trapped trying to figure out a Synopsys bug?  Want to hear how others dealt
 with it ?  Join the E-Mail Synopsys Users Group!  To join, E-mail me today! 
 ===========================================================================
      !!!     "It's not a BUG,    | Preferred Address: jcooley@world.std.com
     /o o\  /  it's a FEATURE!"   |    Backup Address: jcooley@miracle.com
    (  >  )                       |              (508) 429-4357
     \ - /       |   Snail Mail: P.O. Box 6222, Holliston, MA 01746-6222
     _] [_       |     "This here ain't no one's opinion 'cept my own."


Newsgroups: comp.cad.cadence
From: guillaum@pogo.trl.OZ.AU (Andrew Guillaume)
Subject: Verilog-XL reference manual
Followup-To: comp.cad.cadence
Reply-To: a.guillaume@trl.oz.au
Organization: The Okefenokee Swamp
Date: Thu, 28 Jan 1993 00:14:06 GMT

G'day !

Is my Verilog-XL manual the only one that seems incomplete, or am I missing
parts of it? The version I have is 1.6 (March 1991), and I'm frustrated at
not being able to find information about various things.

Take for example the $gr_waves and $gr_regs stuff. Index points to page
19-9. Page 19-9 lists these two system tasks as system operations that can
access protected data, but there's nothing about the the tasks themselves.
No syntax, no usage, zilch. Another example. Take $bitstoreal and $realtobits.
Page 20-37. Says these functions convert bits (or real numbers) to real
numbers (or bits. Says they convert from real to the 64-bit representation
of that real number. But according to what ? An IEEE standard of some type ?

I'm a novice at verilog, and this reference manual isn't helping me one bit.
Does anybody have other suggestions as to reference material ?

Also, a behavioural example I'm working on requires the multiplication of
a number by 2**(-6) (that's 2 to the power -6). I can't find an exponentiation
function, so does that mean I must create my own ? Are there libraries around ?

Thanks in advance for any info.

Andrew Guillaume
TRL, Melbourne, Australia

Thought for the day: eschew obfuscation !
Newsgroups: comp.cad.cadence
From: pas@jupiter.ic.cmc.ca (Peter Stokes)
Subject: cut and paste in ciw
Organization: Canadian Microelectronics Corporation
Distribution: na
Date: Fri, 22 Jan 1993 15:59:58 GMT

I'm running Cadence 4.2a and wish to cut and paste between
an xterm or shelltool into the CIW.    The environment is a
Sun Sparc2, OpenWindows and mwm.   Neither the mouse keys 
in the xterm or the Copy and Paste keys on my Sun keyboard
seem to work.   What's the trick?

Peter

PS:  it would also be nice to have the Front and Open keys on 
     the Sparc2 work as well.   Is using mwm the problem here?

Peter A. Stokes ___________________________________ Voice: (613) 545-2923
Engineering Applications Support                      Fax: (613) 548-8104
Canadian Microelectronics Corporation        Email: pas@jupiter.ic.cmc.ca
Kingston, Ontario, Canada _______________________________________________


-- 
Peter A. Stokes ___________________________________ Voice: (613) 545-2923
Engineering Applications Support                      Fax: (613) 548-8104
Canadian Microelectronics Corporation        Email: pas@jupiter.ic.cmc.ca
Kingston, Ontario, Canada _______________________________________________
Newsgroups: comp.cad.cadence
From: keiths@Cadence.COM (Keith Sabine)
Subject: Re: getting all cellviews
Organization: Cadence Design Systems, Inc.
Date: Wed, 20 Jan 1993 17:42:38 GMT

In article <1993Jan12.172646.14372@venus.ic.cmc.ca> pas@jupiter.ic.cmc.ca writes:
>In Cadence 4.2 skill, how might one go about
>getting a list of all cells in a library?
>
>For example:
>
>procedure( showCells (lib "t")
>    prog( ( libId ; library db id
>	    cells ; list of cells in libId
>	  )
>        libId = dmOpenLib( lib nil nil "r")
>	cells = ??????( libId)
>	println( cells)
>    )
>)
>


Try:

procedure( showCells( lib "t")
 let( (libId cell)
   libId =  dmOpenLib( lib nil nil "r")
   foreach( cell libId~>cells
     println( cell~>name)
   )
 )
)


Keith.

*----------------------------------------------------------------------------*
* Keith Sabine                              Phone: (44)-344-360333           *
* Cadence Design Systems UK Ltd,            Fax:   (44)-344-360324           *
* Bagshot Road,                             Email: keiths@cadence.com        *
* Bracknell,                                                                 *
* England RG12 3PH                          Standard Disclaimer:             *
*                                           'Ahem, this is my theory,        *
*                                           which is mine, all mine...'      *
*----------------------------------------------------------------------------*
Newsgroups: comp.cad.cadence