HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: mojo@Caere.COM (Morris Jones)
Newsgroups: rec.motorcycles
Subject: Re: MSF RCC and MC brakes.
Date: 5 Sep 92 00:48:13 GMT
Organization: Caere Corp.

jrd@po.CWRU.Edu (John R. Daker) writes:
[story about an uninformed MSF instructor]

John, relax.  You are right, he is wrong.  He, however, is a typical
MSF instructor who's doing this for fun and has a few wrong ideas.  All
he has to do is look carefully at his instructor's guide to see that
he's wrong.

When I do that same section of level 1 classrom, I point out that
"under perfect conditions, some bikes can stop better than many cars."

Yes, it's the contact patch thing.  I think there was an issue of
Motorcyclist a couple years ago that had a track comparison of some
superbikes with racing go-carts, and the go-carts would out corner the
bikes all day.  Painful to ride, with all those side G's and no lean,
but mighty fast with lots of rubber on the road.

Now, knowing what you know, here is what I suggest:

Sit back and relax, stay moderately quiet, take the class, and let the
curriculum work its magic.  The RSS curriculum, fortunately, is designed
to work reasonably well regardless of the capabilities of the instructor.

Of course, with a moderately GOOD instructor, it can be uncanny.

Your instructor's impressions by the way are common among MSF
instructors.  I have about 25 instructors that I work with across three
different sites, and I often have to struggle to change their
misconceptions about motorcycle braking and cornering.

Another common misconception is that braking in turns makes a bike
straighten up, but it's only true on some bikes.  I've had some
instructors who taught "apply the brakes to make the motorcycle
straighten..."  Eek!  At the very least it's bad technique.  At the
worst it can low side you pretty quickly.

I think Jerry Lotto will confirm my impressions ... will be interesting
to hear from him.  :)

My job by the way is Site Coordinating Instructor for a private
operator in the SF Bay Area.  I'm actually the senior SCI, so I end up
making decisions and doing quality control and training for all of the
instructors that work at our three sites:  Oakland, Newark, and San
Jose South.  I've been teaching for six years.

And by day, I write software.  :)

Mojo
-- 
Morris Jones
Caere Corp.
mojo@caere.com
Newsgroups: rec.motorcycles
From: heff@ki.ch.apollo.hp.com 
Subject: Re: Leather pants
Date: Fri, 11 Sep 1992 15:32:41 GMT
Reply-To: heff@ki.ch.apollo.hp.com 
Organization: Hewlett-Packard Laboratories


> In article <BuDMxH.6zo@apollo.hp.com> heff@ki.ch.apollo.hp.com writes:
> >OK, Stupid Question #1346: Do chaps (in general) have leather over the
> >ass-portion
> >of a person's anatomy?  If not, can you get chaps that do,?  
>  ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>
> 	Mine don't....
>
> >How easy are chaps to hop in and out of?  Can you recommend a good,
>  ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>
>	Very easy. In takes about a minute, out about 15 seconds. I take
>	my chances with chaps instead of pants because I wouldn't wear pants
>	much because I am under the impression pants are hard to get in and
>	out of. Since I can put my chaps on very easily I do it very often,
>	so I'm protected even on those mythically dangerous 3 mile rides from
> 	my house...

Well, here's the point of the question:  I've heard stories about people
getting their asses road-burnt off, and it didn't sound fun.  Are you 
ChapPeople(tm) not worrying about it and figuring you're protecting your
legs, and leaving it at that?


Jeff Oesterle

'82 Yamaha Vision 550
DoD#6892
================
"No, I don't know that atheists should be considered as citizens, 
nor should they be considered patriots.  This is one nation under God."
                                         - George Bush
<choke> <cough> Say WHAT?!?!?!?
================

(Disclaim, disclaim, disclaim.)
From: bob@csbvax.uucp (Bob Palin)
Newsgroups: rec.motorcycles
Subject: Re: >wheelies
Date: 11 Sep 92 21:16:58 GMT
Organization: Varian Chromatography Systems

In article <1992Sep10.200603.29044@news2.cis.umn.edu> mark@lenti.med.umn.edu (Mark Olson (CDC)) writes:
>In article <1992Sep10.165651.19456@varian.com> bob@csbvax.uucp (Bob Palin) writes:
>>There are a few roads in England which are marked 1 in 3 which means they
>>go up 1 foot for every 3 feet horizontally, 30 degrees I believe  8-)
>>These suckers are STEEP - I have never come across a road that steep
>>in the US, some in San Francisco are pretty steep but not 30 degrees.
>>btw, these 1in3 roads mostly go up the cliffs from those cute little
>>fishing villages you always see in the post cards.
>
>   1 in 1 is a 45 degree angle, so 1 in 3 is 33% of 45 degrees, or 15
>degrees.  The percent grade marked for hills is the percentage of a
>45 degree angle, so a 6% grade is 2.7 degrees.

It seems I was doubly wrong, 1 in 3 is in fact approx 18.4 degrees which
means some of those hills in SF are steeper than 1 in 3.  I'll be back
in England in a couple of weeks and I'll try to find a 1 in 3 to compare
to.  However 1 in 3 is not defined in England as 33% of 45 degrees, I
was at least correct about that, it happens to be close in degrees,
(1 in 4 would be 14 degress)


        |
  1 ft  |       definition of 1 in 3, therefore Tangent of angle =
        |       opposite/adjacent = .3333 ~= 18.4 degrees.
	__________________
	     3 ft


Bob Palin, Varian, Walnut Creek, Ca (510)945-2278, AMA, FSSNOC, DoD #257
bob@varian.com     242,201 miles and counting     CBR600, ST1100, KLR650
From: tcora@PICA.ARMY.MIL (Tom Coradeschi <tcora>)
Newsgroups: rec.motorcycles
Subject: Re: Chainlube for my BM?
Date: 14 Sep 92 15:56:32 GMT
Organization: Electric Armts Div, US Army ARDEC, Picatinny Arsenal, NJ

svoboda@rtsg.mot.com (David Svoboda) writes:
>Boy, some people's bullshit filters need to be tightened up a tad, ya think?
>
>In article <1992Sep3.225415.1@acfcluster.nyu.edu> mullignj@acfcluster.nyu.edu writes:
>|
>|BMW has NEVER made a chain driven motorcycle.
>
>I have a question which concerns exactly that:
>
>I was at a social function a few weeks ago when I met a gentleman who
>swore up and down that BMW once made a chain-drive cycle, a long time
>ago, and that a friend of his had one.  He was so sure of it that he 
>offered to bet me $50.  Not being sure enough of my answer to lay down 
>that kind of money, I simply insulted the hair on his wife, and let it 
>be.  (In the finest DoD tradition.)  But I would really like to know 
>the answer, now that it no longer matters.
>
>Did BMW ever manufacture a chain-driven motorcycle?

In a word: no.

>Did I blow fifty bucks?

In a word: yep.
-- 
 
                tom coradeschi    <+>    tcora@pica.army.mil
From: martin@adpgate.UUCP (Martin Golding)
Newsgroups: rec.motorcycles
Subject: Re: Countersteering a shafty
Date: 10 Sep 92 21:11:48 GMT
Article-I.D.: adpplz.1564
Organization: ADP Dealer Services R&D, Portland, OR

> In article <1551@adpplz.UUCP> martin@adpgate.UUCP (Martin Golding) writes:

>> in the
>> one study I'm aware of, a test bicycle became seriously unstable when
>> the front wheel's gyroscopic effects were canceled by a second wheel
>> of the same weight, mounted on the forks and spun in the opposite direction.


cam@castle.ed.ac.uk (Chris Malcolm) writes:
>Adding
> a counter-rotating wheel will double the inertias involved, as well as
> removing the helpful effect, in a machine whose steering angles were
> not designed to cope with it. 

When the wheel wasn't moving, or was moving in the same direction as the
front wheel, there was no effect. Or a lesser effect, it's been a long time.


> A natural experiment here is ski-bikes which steer by means of a front
> ski. No rotating wheel, and cornering behaviour just like a bicycle.

But are they stable (they remain upright when moving at speed with
no rider)? And are you claiming that they countersteer?


> Now, if gyroscopic effects add the _major_ component to stability, why
> can't you ride a bike backwards?

You're misunderstanding my claim. I'm not suggesting that the motorcycle
is mysteriously held up by the spinning wheels, but that the gyroscopic
effects on the front wheel are a part of the feedback mechanism that keeps
two-wheeled vehicles upright independently of the operator.


Martin Golding    | I don't have to be right.
DoD #0236         |    I have a _recipe_ for crow.
[motcsd!]mcspdx!adpgate!martin
From: mparsons@fleming.csc.bcm.tmc.edu (Mark Parsons)
Newsgroups: rec.motorcycles
Subject: Re: bikes/babes/bikinis/Denny's (say what?)
Date: 15 Sep 1992 13:44:38 GMT
Reply-To: mparsons@fleming.csc.bcm.tmc.edu (Mark Parsons)
Distribution: na
Organization: Baylor College of Medicine, Houston, Tx
Originator: mparsons@fleming.csc.bcm.tmc.edu


In article <JET.92Sep14155946@win30.nas.nasa.gov>, jet@win30.nas.nasa.gov (J. Eric Townsend) writes:
|> "mparsons" == Mark Parsons <mparsons@fleming.csc.bcm.tmc.edu> writes:
|> mparsons> . . stepping out of full leathers . . and only having a
|> mparsons> bikini on . . . .  *pant* *pant* . . . . where's the nearest
|> mparsons> Denny's!?!?!?!?  		 ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
|> 
|> For those of you who've never been so lucky as to ride with Parsons,
|> *any* place that he stops becomes a pickup joint.  I've seen him give
|> his number to a woman at Denny's that happened to have been looking at
|> him while we were there.
|> 
|> Get some class, Mark, try Bennigan's or Chili's...
			     ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

But Don (aka Duck) already claimed those!! :-(

I was thinking of putting on a tie and going to a Steak 'N Ale,
you know . . . put myself in the upper class? ;-)

Mark "I'll take a Grand Slam . . . Ma'am!!" Parsons
From: pooder@msus1.msus.edu
Newsgroups: rec.motorcycles
Subject: Re: Least Favorite Road Sign
Date: 4 Sep 92 20:07:34 -0600
Organization: Minnesota State University System

               Pavement Ends

Especially when I took that road to avoid the construction and have a nice
long ride on my way to work (it really doesn't mean that there are remains
of old pavement lying along the road liI told my daughter once).  

Pooder - glad I didn't have to commute today - Rochester, MN - DoD# 591
From: kat@ucscb.UCSC.EDU (Ptolomaea)
Newsgroups: rec.motorcycles
Subject: Re: I didn't do it.
Date: 9 Sep 1992 01:22:59 GMT
Organization: University of California, Santa Cruz
NNTP-Posting-Host: ucscb.ucsc.edu


In <lapr0pINN3hg@jethro.Corp.Sun.COM> elef@smarmy.Corp.Sun.COM (elaine 'BEANO' leffler) writes:


>best quote heard: 
>"no - it's quite a balmy night.  then again, maybe it's the 
>flush of embarrassment


wow, quoted twice in one day!  :-)


--Katrina

-- 

   Ptolomaea Cornelia Zenobiana	    Youth and Speed were no match 
   kat@ucscb.ucsc.edu               for Age and Treachery...until 
   Dod # 199			    ...hi folks!!
From: landon@Apple.COM (Landon Dyer)
Newsgroups: rec.motorcycles
Subject: Re: Fuckin' maggots & breakdowns
Date: 14 Sep 92 07:47:48 GMT
Organization: Apple Computer Inc., Cupertino, CA

This evening I was cruising around Silly Valley (visiting
bookstores, natch).  I stopped at a restaurant, grabbed something
to eat, and when I came back out my bike was dead.  The starter
just went clika-clika-clik, the bike wouldn't shift out of
neutral so a push-start was out of the question.  Fluids and
plugs and other such things within my mechanical ability seemed
just fine.  Half an hour later the problem went away.  ("Oh, ok,
be that way ...")

With more than a little trepidation I caaarefully set off again.
Six blocks later the bike died while idling at a stoplight.  This
time nothing -- not even calling the towing company -- brought
the bike back to life.

The towing guys showed up with a flatbed truck.  The first thing
the guy off the truck did was to push the bike off of the center
stand

	and then drop it

the first time it had ever been down.  Fucking maggot, indeed.
Cosmetic damage only (scuffed crash bar, valve cover and hard
luggage) but I'm still pissed.

So I'm on four wheels again.  Damn.

----

Since I'm bored and currently bikeless, here's the warranty work
done on my '92 R100GS since I bought it new last November.
(Mileage to date is 15K, oil changes every 2K miles).

	Nov 91	Siezed exhaust nuts at 600mi service, cut off and replaced
	Dec 91	Tank brace missing, installed [big deal, just makes it
		  harder to yank the tank];
	Jul 92	Bad valve stem -- to replace, you have to break the bead
		  and re-balance the wheel;
	Jul 92	Blown exhaust seals ("Cool.  It sounds like a Harley.")
	Jul 92	Faulty neutral switch, replacement of which involves yanking
		  the tranny, I'm told;
	Aug 92	Seeping shock, replaced;

... and now this latest thing (siezed engine? sand in the
gearbox?).  Thank Ghu for three year warranties ... now,
if only we didn't need them...  :-(

Are all GS's like this; am I just being picky?


-- 
                                                                       .
+-------------------------------\\\       //\\                      o / 
| landon dyer (landon@apple.com) \\\\   ////\\\\                   /{}__
| not the views of apple computer \\\\\/////\\\\\\ /^\^/\        (O)^\(O)
+---------------------------------+\\\\\\///\\\\\\\\___------~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
From: elef@smarmy.Corp.Sun.COM (elaine 'BEANO' leffler)
Newsgroups: rec.motorcycles
Subject: Re: Riding Two on a CBR600F2
Date: 8 Sep 1992 15:59:48 GMT
Organization: Sun Microsystems
Distribution: world
Reply-To: elef@smarmy.Corp.Sun.COM
NNTP-Posting-Host: smarmy.corp.sun.com

In article 6229@microsoft.com, chrispi@microsoft.com (Chris Pirih) writes:
>The passenger should have hir arms around the driver and
>hands resting on the fuel tank.   I learned this the first 

>This probably only works with real sportbikes, but I'd
>guess it works with a GooF2 too (har har).

well, i've ridden on the back of my beau's goof2 twice, and the tank on
the goof does NOT make it easy to push back against.  it's shaped like a
big hump, and i've never been able to find a comfortable spot to push
back from.  maybe if my arms were longer it would be easier....

beanO


  **...........................................................**
     Elaine 'beano' Leffler     North American Solution Center
         elef@smarmy           Sun Microsystems Computer Corp.
    elef@smarmy.corp.sun.com	       (415) 336-5142
  **...........................................................**

    your sweet little cupcake, baked with the batter from HELL....

   "...technology marches on - and makes 150-mph motorcycles for
    15-mph beginners' brains."	_motorcyclist_

Newsgroups: rec.motorcycles
From: dab@vuse.vanderbilt.edu (The Nashville Flash)
Subject: Re: More ascii hand signals
Originator: dab@space3
Organization: Vanderbilt University School of Engineering, Nashville, TN, USA
Date: Sat, 12 Sep 1992 14:58:14 GMT

>> In article <5246@gdls.UUCP>, parker@gdls.UUCP (The Dougster) writes:
>> |> easy, but how do you signal an eight with one hand?
>> |>           ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>> |> 
>> |>  [one through five deleted - you figure 'em out]

Simple... 6,7,8, and 9 are made by pointing DOWN 1,2,3, and 4 respectively.
For the READER, add five to the number pointed DOWN to receive 6,7,8,9.
This is a hell of a lot easier to remember than an assortment of fingers all
pointed up.  You can use ANY fingers you want, just point them down.
Zero is a FIST so it is not confused with the universal sign for "OK."

While on the subject: 
Pointing the index finger horizontally and slightly bent whilst wiggling it
up and down means: "Need a bathroom (tree?) break."
Little finger pointed up means "Interstate"
Draw a triangle with the point down means "State (or county) Route"
Exaggerated pointing two or three times in direction up, down, left, right
means N,S,W,E respectively.
Rolling motion with whole hand means either "miles" or "further"
Swooping motion of hand and arm up and to the right means "exit"
Exaggerated pointing to the tanks means "Need gas"
To make a question, move your arm away from your body with your palm up.

Using these signs you can say stuff like:
"4th exit, 20 miles, state route 27 east, pee break."
And the response, "OK.  I need gas, too."
============================================================================
 "No hour of life is lost that is spent in the saddle." - Winston Churchill
    The Nashville Flash	  -   dab@vuse.vanderbilt.edu   -   DoD # 412 

Newsgroups: rec.motorcycles
From: jrwaters@eos.ncsu.edu (JACK ROGERS WATERS)
Subject: Re: TEST/IGNORE
Organization: North Carolina State University, Project Eos
Date: Mon, 7 Sep 1992 07:12:26 GMT

In article <dbc-060992214726@b62003.student.cwru.edu> dbc@po.cwru.edu (Dean Cookson) writes:
>In article <1992Sep4.183203.25410@webo.dg.com>, x1sdup@esparc19.webo.dg.com
>(Stephen Dupre) wrote:
>> 
>> Just adjusting some environment variables...
>
>setenv LANCE_HOLST	jerk
>
How idiotic.  That's the default value.


Jack Waters II

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
~ Make no Mistake, I am the Red Fishnet.         ~
~                                DoD#1919        ~
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Newsgroups: rec.motorcycles
From: jeq@i88.isc.com (Jonathan E. Quist)
Subject: Re:  vanity plates
Organization: INTERACTIVE Systems Corporation, Naperville, IL
Date: Tue, 15 Sep 1992 16:30:01 GMT

In article <wrs.4146@wslack.UUCP> wrs@wslack.UUCP (Bill Slack) writes:
>
>My 1973 R75/5 has   R75-5  on the plate. 

I saw a sportbike, possibly a K-1, though I didn't get positive ID,
with the Illinois plate "NO R80".


-- 
Jonathan E. Quist                              INTERACTIVE Systems Corporation
jeq@i88.isc.com  '71 CL450-K4 "Gleep", DoD #094        Naperville, IL
        There are many things a person should experience in a lifetime.
       Among them are an infant's first cry, and an infant's first laugh.
Newsgroups: rec.motorcycles
From: sheinfel@ssd.comm.mot.com (Aviad Sheinfeld)
Subject: Re: 1991 VFR750 purchase info wanted
Organization: Motorola LMPS
Distribution: usa
Date: Tue, 15 Sep 1992 22:41:08 GMT
Keywords: n

Well, I just bought a '91 VFR with 400 (yes, hundred) miles on it
in perfect shape for $4900 - including center stand and cowl
options.  Better luck if you're selling :-)

-Aviad
From: cj@eno.wpd.sgi.com (C.J. Silverio)
Newsgroups: rec.motorcycles
Subject: Re: equal opportunity cheesecake
Date: 15 Sep 92 21:45:36 GMT
Followup-To: misc.test
Organization: SGI TechPubs


In article <1992Sep15.145918.26451@cbfsb.cb.att.com>,
jjd1@cbnewsg.cb.att.com writes:  
|That does it. I feel so V-I-O-L-A-T-E-D. I don't think my five
|sisters are going to like the way you've treated their sensitive
|brother.  I am not an animal, usually.  Here let me help you
|with that pedestal.

|C J you've really opened my eye's to the degrading plot against
|woman bikers. In the future I hope to see more add's with
|Iranian woman wearing black potato sacks standing next to crotch
|rockets.

It'd probably take a two-by-four applied repeatedly to your face
to get you to notice that other people have feelings that might
not be the same as yours.  And it'd take a pile driver to your
skull to get you to acknowledge that those feelings might be
legitimate.

But violence doesn't amuse me.  
/jjd1@/h:j
*plonk*

----
cj@eno.wpd.sgi.com      C J Silverio/Brahms Gang/Berkeley CA 94720
"Oh, you're a bigot all right, you just feel that saying you have the 
right to be one means you're liberal.  If it didn't happen so often, 
it would be funny."  Mark Sobolewski, in talk.religion.misc
From: gaijin@ale.Japan.Sun.COM (John Little - Nihon Sun Repair Depot)
Newsgroups: rec.motorcycles
Subject: Re: electrical problems
Date: 8 Sep 92 02:31:31 GMT
Organization: Nihon Sun Microsystems - Atsugi Technical Centre - JAPAN.
NNTP-Posting-Host: ale.japan.sun.com
Summary: National Enquirer Front Page Story - Late Edition With Pictures.
Keywords: electric, eclectic-toothbrush

In article <Sep.8.00.58.56.1992.4365@spade.rutgers.edu> \
cadet@spade.rutgers.edu (Uniquely TiJean) writes:
%
%  I cannot start my bike with the start button.
%  To start it, I push-start it.
%  I know it's not the battery. 
%

   Can't  start  it,  tacho  doesn't  work,  speedo's  on  the  blink  and
   indicators flash everything...  just take the bloody thing out the back
   and shoot it JC!!

   Oh, just to assuage  the old curiosity...   what happens when you  push
   the button?  Do  you get a  loud "click", but nothing  else?  Does  the
   starter motor turn over  and go back  to sleep?   Does the engine  turn
   without firing?  Does the cap on the right fork leg slowly screw itself
   out and a minature minuteman launch itself off towards mother Russia?

   (...O.K., who's been spiking the de-caf again??)

-- 
   ------------------------------------------------------------------------
  | John Little  - gaijin@Japan.Sun.COM  - Sun Microsystems. Atsugi, Japan | 
   ------------------------------------------------------------------------
Newsgroups: rec.motorcycles
From: jeq@i88.isc.com (Jonathan E. Quist)
Subject: Re: Tank Slappers...
Organization: INTERACTIVE Systems Corporation, Naperville, IL
Date: Fri, 4 Sep 1992 21:09:04 GMT

In article <1992Sep3.225522.14366@novell.com> markb@wc.novell.com (Mark S. Burnham) writes:
>Could someone explain how tank slappers happen? I don't see why 
>severe oscillation should occur just because the front wheel gets
>light.  Any enlightenment would be appreciated...

By changing the load on the front, you are changing the dynamic characteristics
of the steering mechanism.  For that matter, by unloading the forks
slightly, you may be changing the geometry of the front end.
I won't even guess which effect is more pronounced.  At any rate, the
change results in a resonance occuring within normal operating conditions,
instead of outside them.  (BTW, I'm not wouldn't the geometry change
from a rearward weight shift increase trail, and hence make the system
more stable?  Anyone?)


To be more technical, changing the load and geometry reduce the real component
of the associated poles in the system's response function.  If
a pole (or pair of poles) moves to anywhere in the right half of
the real/imaginary plane (i.e., real component >= 0), then oscillation will
occur at that pole.  (Technically, no, it won't self start, but in
the words of a former professor of mine describing oscillators, "Everything's
fine, and you have a stable system.  But then somebody sneezes, and the whole
thing oscillates like hell.")  All it takes is a close enough combination
of speed, road surface, loading, etc.

ObProfZVRekasius:  In lecturing on control theory and feedback networks,
Professor Z.V. Rekasius of Northwestern University frequently added to
his stability criteria lecture that the reason for so many crashes at
the Warsaw airport was that there were Poles in the right half-plane.
-- 
Jonathan E. Quist                              INTERACTIVE Systems Corporation
jeq@i88.isc.com  '71 CL450-K4 "Gleep", DoD #094        Naperville, IL
        There are many things a person should experience in a lifetime.
       Among them are an infant's first cry, and an infant's first laugh.
Newsgroups: rec.motorcycles