From: akersse@NeXTwork.Rose-Hulman.Edu (Elwix of Style)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.cbm
Subject: Re: About my cruncher again...
Date: 8 Jan 1993 05:06:33 GMT
Organization: Computer Science Department at Rose-Hulman
Reply-To: akersse@NeXTwork.Rose-Hulman.Edu (Elwix of Style)
NNTP-Posting-Host: o231-23.nextwork.rose-hulman.edu

In article <1993Jan7.151950.29073@news.tu-graz.ac.at>  
schuetz@fm11ap01.tu-graz.ac.at (Alexander Schuetz) writes:
> 
> >>Okay, but then you must have been off the scene or off anyone for a bloody
> >>long time. *EVERYBODY* knows Darksqueezer, it was released in 1988 and 
> >>people still use it heavily for crunching their demos, programs,  
whatsoever.
> 
> >Programmers of demos and such are in the vast minority of C64 owners,
> >and also in the vast minority of people who read this group.  I myself
> >was a heavy programmer of the C64 at one time, and I never heard of
> >DarkSqueezer, although I can guess that it's some sort of executable
> >file cruncher.  But saying that EVERYBODY should know about it is just
> >plain wrong.  The fact is that very few people know about crunchers.
> 
> All right. Well, all of a sudden, now you all know, I guess :)
> 
Alexander, you must consider some things... As the above responder points out,  
demo coders or other people for whom crunching etc is a usual task are quite a  
small group indeed. I'd guess the ages of active coders etc on the C-64 scene  
these days is low too, say 15-21 yrs... you wont find lots of those guys on the  
Internet.
Just knowing about crunchers and why they're so cool wont make people want it  
if they have no use for it.

> >The number of people who own REU's is very small compared to the number
> >of people who own C64's.  You *have* limited your audience.
> 
> Well, I guess I have limited it to everyone who is interested in a  
sophistica-
> ted Lempel/Ziv style cruncher with enourmous speed compared to all known 
> existing ones. Must be VERY few indeed. :-)
Again, I think you're looking for an audience in the wrong places... I bet  
you've got a big audience on the scene; every coder loves a good programming  
utility. 
Then again, with so many crunchers spread around so much on the scene, do you  
really think 15-20 yr old scene guys want to spend money to buy your program,  
assuming they've already got an REU? Maybe the most serious ones...
I think unless your cruncher gives MUCH greater compression (ie, 15-20% better  
at least), then no-one wants to pay for it, if they can compress as well for  
free but use up 30 minutes instead of 1 or 2... I just go watch TV or watch  
Amiga demos while I crunch my demo...
You should post some comparisons... I'd like to see the pack results of your  
program compared to say, Byte Bonker 1.5, my current favorite cruncher... 

> First, it *partially* uses *similar algorythm* to Darksqueezer. Second, 
> the original Darksqueezer is complete Public Domain, so everyone had and 
> has the right to look at the code, hasn't he? Considering my hard work 
> of reverse engeneering and *immensely improving* the original algorithm, 
> and considering that I'm obviuosly the one and only who did it, and 
> considering how damn (I hate the word) poor I am, I think some donations 
> are in order. Must I really argue about that one? I think I really don't
> have to.
> 
> Alex Schuetz (schuetz@fm11ap01.tu-graz.ac.at)
Maybe 2-3-4 years ago you'd get a better response to your selling... you can  
maybe even sell your routines to a software house, I dunno... these days coders  
are making utils and spreading em for free, they want them spread as much as  
possible! It gives them a name in the scene, and lots of them are even genuinly  
interested in seeing the C-64 survive a bit longer. I think your 'compitition'  
has already undercut you as far as guys in the scene buying your program. 
One more thing - how can you be SURE that someone else hasn't already done what  
you did, or wrote a from-scratch REU cruncher and spread it around?

I sympathize with you, it'd be cool if C-64 PD were as IBM PD (people so  
willing to fork out $$$ for PD stuff)... 
Perhaps if you offered complete source code too... lots of guys here are avid  
programmers, just not the typical scene fellows. I dunno, I just don't think  
you'll get any $$$...

Steve
(Elwix/Style)