From: ehouse@Apple.COM (Eric House)
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles
Subject: Re: Phil Wood titanium bottom bracket
Date: 3 Sep 92 16:55:56 GMT
Organization: Apple Computer Inc., Cupertino, CA

In article <9209022045.AA02786@hplomg.hpl.hp.com> BRANDT_JOBST/HP1900_01@HPLOMG.HPL.HP.COM writes:
>Eric House writes:
>
>> ...
>> that they'd spent a lot of time looking at various Ti alloys trying to find
>> something as stiff as the stainless steel they normally use, as the 6/4 most
>> makers use for spindles is much too flexible in Phil's opinion.  (And he's
>> not alone here, I understand.)  They found something, but aren't telling
>> anyone what it is.  I handled both spindles, and there was considerable
>> difference -- though not enough to pay $100 for.
>
>Sounds like mystery metal.  Unless this isn't titanium the modulus will
>be the same for all alloys of Titanium.  Or, this is to be a metal matrix
>with ceramic, made in a sintering process.  This is about as far out an
>idea as I can imagine because this stuff costs like NASA space stuff.  What
>you save is about a mini sip from your water bottle or a couple dimes out
>of your pocket.  All this for something you can't even see, feel or measure.
>I guess that's high class when you have stuff others can't afford but no
>one can see and therefore it's hard to talk about.  There is to me, obviously
>no functional excuse for these so why do we need them?  I should add, that
>Wooden hubs aren't light to begin with.  So why should I buy a heavy hub, pay
>$100 dollars for an axle and end up with a hub that isn't even as light as
>comes with an ordinary wheel.

Jobst, it isn't at all clear what the purpose of this post was.

It does add to the discussion the opinion that all alloys of Ti have the
same modulus.  I'm not sure what modulus is, but was asking about stiffness,
and many who have used both a Campy Ti spindle (made of commercially pure Ti)
and one of the newer 6/4 Ti spindles have claimed that there's a difference,
as do many who've ridden both a CP frame and one made of 3/2.5.  One
respondent went to the trouble of looking up alloys of Ti in a text, and
suggested one rather complicated brew that had about 15% higher yield strength
and stiffness than 6/4.  His opinion, in other words, differed from yours.

Then there's this rant about how there's no point in paying any extra for
a Ti part that you can't see or feel.  As you can see even from the parts
of my original post that you included, I agree.  Even so, the digression
serves only to disguise your contribution to the discussion.

And then there's your confusion of axles with spindles.  While it's true
the Phil does make hubs (and damn nice ones, too, IMHO, which aren't meant
to be judged on their weight) he doesn't offer Ti axles for them.  And I
certainly didn't mention them in my post.  I was talking about BB spindles,
and was hoping someone would be interested in discussing their possible
composition and Phil's reasons for keeping it secret.  Several netters were.

Would I be out of place suggesting that you read a bit more carefully before
lumping posts into some category requiring a standard patronizing response?
-- 
****************************************************************************
Eric House			"My employer doesn't share its opinions with
			   	 me, so I can share only mine with you"
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles