HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: wpalmer@oasys.dt.navy.mil (William Palmer)
Newsgroups: rec.aviation.piloting
Subject: a GPO book called "Contractions"?
Date: 27 Jan 93 15:11:38 GMT
Reply-To: wpalmer@oasys.dt.navy.mil (William Palmer)
Organization: Naval Surface Warfare Center, Annapolis, MD

Hi everyone,

	      The book referenced in the subject line is something I've
been searching for for a long time. Does it exist? If so, how do I purchase
it? By the way, GPO stands for Government Printing Office, and I think
that's where I can get it. I understand that the book is an invaluable
resource for decrypting any ATC or meteorology contraction you can think
of.

	      Thanks for your help.

Bill Palmer
-- 
----------------------------------------------
I'm the victim of EJ's signature virus! Oh No!
From: left@thecurb.EBay.Sun.COM (Kit Linder)
Newsgroups: rec.aviation.piloting
Subject: Re: pilotage: any tricks/tips?
Date: 21 Jan 1993 20:02:04 GMT
Organization: Sun Microsystems, Inc.
Distribution: world
Reply-To: left@thecurb.EBay.Sun.COM
NNTP-Posting-Host: thecurb.ebay.sun.com

Responding to Michael Vinson:

>...[I]...follow my route on a large, color satellite photo...
>Are large scale color satellite photos available for other regions?

Contact your local USGS (United States Geological Survey) office.  They have maps
and pictures that will astound you!  LANDSAT images are available for nearly any
region you specify.  I recall seeing one photo in particular, a shot of the San
Diego harbor from FL 650 in a U-2, with San Diego and its eastern hills stretching
away in the distance to the curve of the earth.  Stunning.  Also a Shuttle photo
of the Sacramento/Northern San Francisco Bay area, with sunlight glinting off the
delta.  Absolutely breathtaking.

As I recall, the prices were reasonable (how much would it cost _you_ to take a
hi-res photo from low earth orbit? :-) ), and the money goes back into the USGS so 
they can take more pictures.  Directory Assistance should have their number.


Kit Linder
kit.linder@ebay.sun.com
Milpitas, CA
408-276-1008

Newsgroups: rec.aviation.piloting,rec.aviation.student
From: kerry@Ingres.COM (Kerry Kurasaki)
Subject: Re: secondary stalls
Reply-To: kerry@Ingres.COM (Kerry Kurasaki)
Organization: Ask Computer Systems Inc., Ingres Division, Alameda CA 94501
Distribution: rec
Date: 25 Jan 93 19:30:13 GMT

In article <maverick.727915435@camelot> maverick@camelot.bradley.edu (Darin Petersen) writes:
>Speaking of spins and stalls.....
>
>I've often heard of secondary stalls but I'm not familiar with them.
>I remember someone saying that one occurs if you keep the nose high after a
>stall and let the plane stall again.  I did this with my instructor and
>nothing special happened.  The nose just 'bobbed' up and down like a paper
>airplane would when you bend the 'elevators' up too much. (BTW, I was in a
>C152) 
>
>SO what are they and what's the danger.......
>

As with many stalls, the real danger is when you are low and slow
and near the ground.  And again, the training is to help you
recognize that secondary stalls can occur and to begin recovery
procedures.

Most trainers have pretty benign stall characteristics.  Cherokees
actually put me to sleep.  The training is to help you understand
that stalls can occur in *ANY* airplane and some are less forgiving
than others.

Kerry
Newsgroups: rec.aviation.piloting
From: jkf@Franz.COM (Sean Foderaro)
Subject: Re: Radio procedures at controlled airports
Organization: Franz Inc., Berkeley, CA
	<1993Jan21.104501.11625@lloyd.Camex.COM>
Date: Sat, 23 Jan 1993 17:08:45 GMT


>> If it's an ARSA (or a TCA), it's ATIS-CLEARANCE-GROUND-TOWER-
>> DEPARTURE. 

 Except at Oakland, CA (OAK) which has a Clearance Delivery position but 
you don't contact Clearance for a VFR departure from the ARSA. 
 It seems that like many things in aviation, there are no rules that apply 
in all situations.  If you're unsure just ask Ground.   Generally I've 
found that if you have to contact Clearance to get a VFR ARSA departure 
then that fact will be mentioned in the ATIS.  But again I'll bet there
are exceptions to this as well.

-sean


Newsgroups: rec.aviation.piloting
From: Charles.K.Scott@dartmouth.edu (Charles K. Scott)
Newsgroups: rec.aviation.piloting
Subject: Re: the usual meandering thread biz
Date: 27 Jan 93 17:38:27 GMT
 <1993Jan19.050448.20130@tigger.jvnc.net> <mb_sshl@quantum.qnx.com> 
 <C1ECoK.HqD@world.std.com>  <C1GI5o.su@dircon.co.uk>
Organization: Dartmouth College, Hanover, NH
X-Posted-From: InterNews1.0a5@newshost.dartmouth.edu

In article <C1GI5o.su@dircon.co.uk>
uad1221@dircon.co.uk (David Lomax) writes:

> You should want to learn to spin for your own, your passengers 
> and the people below you's sake. Flying an aeroplane comes with 
> great responsibility as we all know. By the time a pilot gets 
> his/her licence they should not be at all nervous of stalling 
> and in my opinion, spinning. I ju

Spinning used to be taught but my understanding is that the FAA looked
at the accidents involved around spin training and felt that more
damage was being done training pilots how to spin than training pilots
how not to get into one.  In other words, people were being injured and
dying through spin training.  It appeared the fix was worse than the
actual condition.  So they decided spin training wasn't necessary.  At
least that's how I remember the discussion.

Corky Scott
Newsgroups: rec.aviation.piloting
From: krdunn@bnr.ca (Kevin Dunn)
Subject: Re: Book on Pancho Barne
Reply-To: mstudent@bnr.ca
Organization: Bell Northern Research, Ottawa, Canada
Distribution: ott
Date: Thu, 21 Jan 93 17:02:02 GMT

In article <532010ca1@ofa123.fidonet.org>, Larry.Mc.Donald@ofa123.fidonet.org writes:
|>  bobdev@hprpcd.rose.hp.com 
|>    (Bob Devereaux)
|>  > I've been reading two fine biographies of Amelia Earhardt, and in one
|>  > of them is an intriguing reference to another woman pilot of the time,
|>  > one Pancho Barnes.  Do any of you into aviation history have any books
|>  > and/or articles about PB you can recommend?
|> 
|>    I've seen her mentioned in a couple of books on women pilots 
|> (and in "The Right Stuff"), but as far as I have found, no books 
|> on her alone.  There is a movie called "The Pancho Barnes Story", 
|> I believe, that stars Valorie Bertinelli <SPEL>, who looks 
|> nothing like her, but the movie is good. I'd love to catch this 
|> one on vid tape.
|>    I have a cat named "Pancho" after her.
|> 
|> 
|> 
|> ... Larry.Mc.Donald, N6ZMB, Fullerton, California!  <cough, cough>
|> --- Blue Wave/QWK v2.10
|> 
|> --- Maximus 2.01wb

  Chuck yeagers auto biography talks about her. I think its the same pancho.

Kevin Dunn
AKA Falcon **The Electric Jet**
b
From: stadler@Apple.COM (Andy Stadler)
Newsgroups: rec.aviation.piloting
Subject: Re: pilotage: any tricks/tips?
Date: 28 Jan 93 01:33:42 GMT
Organization: Apple Computer Inc, Cupertino, CA

In article <1993Jan26.045907.6571@peck.com> geoff@peck.com (Geoff Peck) writes:
>
>Simple Pilot Hint #29:
>
>    On the east coast, the ocean is generally east.
>
>    On the west coast, the ocean is generally west.
>
>You'd be surprised how handy this hint can be.  :-)
>
>							Geoff


Hmmm....  Now we know why Geoff has so much trouble when he flies to Santa
Barbara.   (see map if you don't know what I mean...)

--Andy
From: lorne@peche2.ensta.fr (Ivan Lorne)
Newsgroups: rec.aviation.piloting
Subject: FRENCH STUDENT going to fly in USA. HELP.
Date: 26 Jan 1993 18:23:23 GMT
Organization: ENSTA (French University).
Distribution: world
NNTP-Posting-Host: peche2.ensta.fr
Keywords: Learning SC Licence


I 'd like to get my FLYING LICENCE.


I'm a FRENCH student going for a training period in networks field (from march to july) at GreenVille SOUTH-CAROLINA.
In France, getting Flying licence is very expensive. 
I was said that it wasn't in the USA.

Could yo help me in answering those few questions:


1) WHAT is the average PRICE of :

	- An Hour of fly.
	- A Flying Licence.

2) HOW LONG does it take to get your licence ?

3) WHERE Could I fly near GreenVille ?

4) WHO can give me MORE SPECIFIC INFORMATIONS ?


Thanks a lot ! And see you soon in the Air !
	Space Rabbit.


Newsgroups: rec.aviation.piloting
From: zwork@starfighter.den.mmc.com (Michael Corvin)
Subject: Flying Movies (was Re: Book on Pancho Barnes)
Organization: Martin Marietta Astronautics Group
Date: Mon, 25 Jan 1993 20:52:00 GMT

In article <C19wFs.CLB@dartvax.dartmouth.edu>, Charles.K.Scott@dartmouth.edu (Charles K. Scott) writes: 
|> Suspect?  Suspect you say?  I had a lot of problems with the technical
|> honesty of that movie.  Sure the aircraft were great, but what was that
|> deal with a stunt man falling to his death because the winds aloft were
|> higher than normal.  The guy was simply hanging on to the strut, the
|> movie showed him falling off and then not opening his chute because of
|> the winds, as if having slightly higher winds would pluck him off the
|> strut like that and then make him not reach for the rip cord.  Then how
|> about the guy giving her her first plane ride.  He puts it into a spin
|> and then moves the stick about with a worried look on his face as if
|> something is wrong with the airplane.  Great, that's teaching movie
|> goers alot about aircraft.  Then during a cross country race, one of
|> the female contestants has an engine problem and promptly spins in and
|> creates a roast on the meadow.  Another nice message to send to all the
|> innocent viewers; have a problem and in you go with a big fiery
|> Sitzplatz.  As usual, I came away disappointed.
|> 
|> Corky Scott

Okay, okay, I strongly concur...  I don't even remember most of the bogus story
line.  I just disengaged the brain and enjoyed watching the airplanes
(and Bertinelli...)

What are people's favorite flying movies, ones that really show piloting
and airplanes properly?  Has Hollywood ever gotten it right in your
humble opinions!?! (Okay, maybe a stupid question...) [BTW should this
thread, if developed move into .misc?]

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Michael Corvin 	      PP-ASEL, PP-G		zwork@starfighter.den.mmc.com
just another spaced rocket scientist at    Martin Marietta Astronautics Group
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
===============    My views, not Martin Marietta's   ========================
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Newsgroups: rec.aviation.piloting
From: zwork@starfighter.den.mmc.com (Michael Corvin)
Subject: Re: Book on Pancho Barne
Organization: Martin Marietta Astronautics Group
Date: Thu, 21 Jan 1993 21:13:55 GMT

It cracked me up to see Valerie Bertinelli playing Pancho Barnes.
I suspect that the movie took vast 'artistic' license with the details
of her life and character, but it did have an absolutely wonderful cast of
classic aircraft. (Based on pictures I've seen of Pancho later in life [eg
in Yeager's 1st book] I doubt she was anwhere as cute as Bertinelli,
even in her youth... :-) ).

I'd also be interested in good books describing her life.  (Bob Devereaux:
which two Earhardt biographies were you reading?)

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Michael Corvin 	      PP-ASEL, PP-G		zwork@starfighter.den.mmc.com
just another spaced rocket scientist at    Martin Marietta Astronautics Group
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
===============    My views, not Martin Marietta's   ========================
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Newsgroups: rec.aviation.piloting
From: skip@mitre.org (Skip Guild)
Subject: Re: Radio procedures at controlled airports
Organization: The MITRE Corp
Date: Fri, 22 Jan 1993 12:29:35 GMT

In article <C17tvs.I1H@mach1.wlu.ca> eandersn@mach1.wlu.ca (Niels Ejvind Andersen) writes:
>...
>On another occasion, I was flying in a control zone, and I overheard an
>exchange between the tower and a another pilot (no, not me!).  The pilot
>reported that he was about two miles from the field, and the tower asked him
>why he had not called for clearance to enter the zone...

Unless there is a difference in terminology between Canada and the lower 48, 
I think you meant Airport Traffic Area (ATA) rather than Control Zone 
(CZ).   There aren't any communication requirements which are affected by 
being inside vs. outside a CZ.  A CZ only affects minimum visibility 
requirements and often exist at airports without a tower.

An ATA exists at airports with an active tower (i.e., on the air).  The 
existance of an active ATA includes the requirement to contact the Tower 
before entering the ATA.

Back to your discussion, a similar thing happened to me at Nashua awhile ago 
when I received permission to "enter the ATA for landing and report a two-
mile right base".  When I got to that point and reported, I was told, "not 
in sight, report established on 11."  I then realized I was using 
the frequency for Hanscom (my departure point) instead of Nashua, reported 
my mistake to Hanscom and switched to Nashua.  By then Nashua was calling, 
"aircraft northwest of the field, please identify yourself."  I reported in 
and received clearance to land, with similar chiding from the controller 
about not reporting earlier.  I responded that I had attempted to do this 
and had received permission to enter the ATA.  I told the Nashua 
controller that it was only after I received clearance to continue the 
approach for 11 that I realized Nashua doesn't have a Runway 11 (only 14-32) 
and discovered my mistake.  The Nashua controller responded with the 
expected remark to be more careful next time and I wasn't asked to call the 
tower after landing.

Everything that needed to be said was said up front and chewing me out on 
the ground wouldn't have added anything.  I filed a NASA report and never 
heard anything more about the incident, but the lesson was learned.
Newsgroups: rec.aviation.piloting
From: moni@hprnd.rose.hp.com (Moni Samaan)
Subject: Re: VFR pilot flying in clouds (was Re: All)
Date: Fri, 22 Jan 1993 18:12:01 GMT
Organization: Hewlett-Packard

While I was in working toward my PPSEL I was practicing slow flight on a
moderately turbulent day with my intructor. He kept telling me to fly slower
and slower. I was having trouble just keeping the plane level. Suddenly
the C152 was in a spin and I was using the rudder and ailerons to stop the
rotation with the yoke pulled back (instinctively and incorrectly). I remember 
thinking we were going to die as we did at least four rotations with the 
ground rushing up at us. I had read about spins and recovery before and 
discussed it once during ground school. As the ground was rushing up at us 
I was trying to remember the what the recovery procedure was. My instuctor 
finally as me to let go of the yoke and he recovered the plane pulling a 
few g's to pull us out of the dive. I don't think he intended for this to 
happen(who knows?). I don't think I would have survived this if I had been 
alone at that point of my training. (I had already soloed). I also probably 
wouldn't have gotten into that situation ( he was asking me to fly slower 
than I thought the 152 could fly under those conditions).

I think that just talking about spins and recovery is not enough. It must be
demonstrated at least once with the student doing the recovery with 
instruction. After that incident we did some spin recovery training which 
gave me a better feel for the planes stability and recovery characteristics.
Under normal conditions its hard to spin a C152.

Moni
From: lee@deneb.sw.stratus.com (Lee Cooprider)
Newsgroups: rec.aviation.piloting
Subject: Re: Engine Failure Due to Cold Engine?
Date: 22 Jan 1993 19:31:55 GMT
Organization: Stratus Computer, Software Engineering
NNTP-Posting-Host: deneb.sw.stratus.com

In article <1993Jan22.165125.19430@porthos.cc.bellcore.com> patter@dasher.cc.bellcore.com (patterson,george r) writes:
>What you're seeing is blocking over the air intakes for the cabin vents -
>I've never heard of anyone blocking cooling air to the engine. A typical
>cold weather kit for an air cooled engine consists of a thermal blanket
>which wraps around the oil resevoir. This keeps the oil warm, which keeps
>the engine warm. They're recommended by Continental for use at temperatures
>below 20 degrees (on the ground).

Also people put duct tape over 1/2 of the oil cooler (the small radiator on
the front of an O-470, for example).   The oil cooler sits in the cowl opening
on my Skylane, so it might have looked like the air intake was being blocked
(which it was, slightly).  Just talked to a mechanic who used to do this on
planes in Colorado during the winter.
-- 
Lee W. Cooprider				PP-ASEL/IA
Lee_Cooprider@vos.stratus.com			Skylane N2908F "Wiley"
From: dick.zeitlin%acc1bbs@ssr.com (Dick Zeitlin) 
Newsgroups: rec.aviation.piloting
Subject: Re: Radio procedures at c
Date: 22 Jan 93 18:00:00 GMT
Distribution: world
Organization: Advanced Computer Concepts BBS, New Rochelle, NY 914-654-1981
Reply-To: dick.zeitlin%acc1bbs@ssr.com (Dick Zeitlin) 

CCS> .My friend has been taught that since he is flying at an non-towered
   > .airport, he doesn't have to really worry about looking for traffic or
   > .using any radios.  After all, it's not very busy, and the pilots flying
   > .the jump planes *sure* know what *they* are doing,

I'd have a new instructor very shortly after a remark like that.  This
guy may be a real hot stick, but that's a lousy attitude for _any_
pilot.  Instilling that attitude in a student isn't too swift an idea.

CCS> .He then described an incident the other day where his instructor had him
   > .back-taxi for another takeoff, but failed to see the airplane on short fi
   > .The student became a little alarmed, taxied off the runway onto the grass
   > .and turned around to wait for the landing traffic.  The instructor still
   > .didn't see the problem and demanded to know why he had done this.

And, coupled with the above incident, I'd have someone speak to the
local APC about this guy.  The instructor is supposed to be MORE
vigilant than the student.

It's always dangerous to judge someone from a third party description of
an incident, but from what was described above, this guy sure wouldn't
win "CFI of the Year."

CCS> .Having learned at a fairly busy place (BED), I am left wondering if,
   > .outside the elite pedantic confines of rec.aviation, that sort of
   > .instruction could perhaps be the usual practice at non-towered fields.

I sure hope not!!!

        D/
---
 . QMPro 1.0 41-3345 . Bring back A-N airways!!    Dick.Zeitlin%acc1bbs@ssr.com
From: Charles.K.Scott@dartmouth.edu (Charles K. Scott)
Newsgroups: rec.aviation.piloting
Subject: Flying Movies (was Re: Book on Pancho Barnes)
Date: 26 Jan 93 17:51:07 GMT
 <C19wFs.CLB@dartvax.dartmouth.edu>  
 <1993Jan25.205200.20284@den.mmc.com>
Organization: Dartmouth College, Hanover, NH
X-Posted-From: InterNews1.0a5@newshost.dartmouth.edu

In article <1993Jan25.205200.20284@den.mmc.com>
zwork@starfighter.den.mmc.com (Michael Corvin) writes:

> What are people's favorite flying movies, ones that really show piloting
> and airplanes properly?  Has Hollywood ever gotten it right in your
> humble opinions!?! (Okay, maybe a stupid question...) [BTW should this
> thread, if developed move into .misc?]

I can think of several:  "Twelve O'Clock High" (except for the one
scene where a Focke Wulf 190 is portrayed by a P-47), "Island in the
Sky" with John Wayne and Ernest K. Gann as technical consultant, and
"The Great Waldo Pepper".  There was also movie about F-86's in Korea
which featured a crash scene that looked so real I still don't
understand how it was done.  Finally, "Air America" is a whole lot of
fun and good flying too.

Corky Scott
From: spenny@sw.stratus.com (Steve Pennypacker)
Newsgroups: rec.aviation.piloting
Subject: Re: the usual meandering thread biz
Date: 27 Jan 93 16:47:16 GMT
Organization: Stratus Computer, Inc.
NNTP-Posting-Host: wiley.ts.stratus.com

In article <1993Jan27.062513.1245@ncar.ucar.edu>, elmore@rap.ucar.edu (Kim Elmore) writes:
> 
> 	I've had aerobatic training and just love acro flight.  Yes,
> I'd like to think I'm a better pilot for it all, but have no objective
> way to show it.  And I've thought long and hard about the "what if..."
> scenario of being uncontrollably rolled inverted in wake turbulence or
> whatever.  While I'd like to think I'd have the presence of mind
> to continue the roll, I'm not so sure.  Another acro pilot and I

I've been wild about aerobatics since I was a little kid.  I also believe 
that aerobatic training makes a person a better pilot (as does IFR 
training :) , and I intend to do lots more of it.  However, I can't help
but think that more pilots have probably been killed by aerobatics than have
been saved by it, even with safety being the number one concern.  Just like
many of us try to justify our flying when we're really doing it 'cause we
love it, I think the same is true of acro.

What do people think?
-- 
     Steve Pennypacker		     PP-ASEL

     spenny@wiley.ts.stratus.com     Stephen_Pennypacker@vos.stratus.com
Newsgroups: rec.aviation.piloting
From: km11480@medtronic.COM (Keith A. Meisel)
Subject: Re: VFR pilot flying in clouds (was Re: All)
Reply-To: km11480@medtronic.COM
Organization: Medtronic, Inc.
Date: Thu, 21 Jan 1993 18:26:35 GMT

>I am a PPASEL student (approx. 20 hrs).  Because of the lovely weather here in
>Minnesota, I have not been able to do my first solo X-country yet.  I am just
>about to take the written (part 141).  Here goes the unusual part.

[description of doing BOTH PP and IA training concurrently]

The problem which you may encounter is the minimum hours requirements.
The biggie is the 50 hours x-c as p.i.c.  I took my instrument checkride
exactly 1 year (to the day) after my PP checkride, and had logged just
enough x-c (50.5 hrs.) in the intervening time to qualify.
From: ben@bailey.UUCP (Ben Bailey)
Subject: Re: Radio procedures at controlled airports
Newsgroups: rec.aviation.piloting
Date: 21 Jan 93 23:54:41 GMT
Distribution: world
Organization: Ben Bailey's Home..Tampa Fl.

What you need is the following book:

	The Pilot's Radio Communications handbook, 4th edition
	by Paul E. Illman
	Tab Practical Flying Series
	ISBN 0-8306-4140-8
	$16.95 US 

It can be ordered from either Sporty's pilot shop, the local book
store (found mine there), or from the publisher (TAB Books,
Blue Ridge Summit, PA 17294-0850)

This is a VERY thorough book.   It answers your question exactly,
plus many, many more.  

I highly recommend it.  I didn't buy it because of mike fright, I
just wanted to get better.  (I live within a TCA).

Ben
--
Ben Bailey                 ben@bailey.uucp -- bailey!ben@uunet.uu.net
12210 Shady Forest Dr.     ben@bailey.tscs.com
Riverview, Fl. 33569       -- The main thing is to keep the main
813-677-5021                  thing the main thing.  Mainly.