HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: conrad@brahms.udel.edu (Jon Conrad)
Subject: Re: a Monteverdi query
Organization: University of Delaware
Date: Fri, 14 Aug 1992 21:23:10 GMT

In article <14AUG199211431096@eccles.caltech.edu> inr@eccles.caltech.edu (I. Neill Reid) writes:

>on the 400th anniversary of Monteverdi's birth (1967 - although
>this would have been very much towards the end of Cuenod's career); 
>the disc is dated 1989 (obviously impossible) 

1967 is by no means near the end of Cuenod's career.  He made his Met
debut in 1987 (? around then anyway), as the Emperor in their new
production of Turandot.  Did he die between then and 1989?

Jon Alan Conrad
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
From: lampson@tellabs.com (Dave Lampson)
Subject: Classic CD Inserts Available - Issue 26 & 27 Added
Organization: Tellabs, Inc., IL
Date: Thu, 20 Aug 1992 22:10:36 GMT

As anyone who subscribes to the magazine Classic CD, or picks it up on the 
newsstand knows they have done away with the slim jewel box for the enclose
sampler CD and gone to a extremely flimsy paper sleeve for the storage of
the CD.  I like to have my CDs in jewel cases, so I created a rather nice 
looking insert for volumes 22 through 27.  The insert fits in the back 
portion of the jewel case and provides a spine label for each end.  The 
insert contains all of the track information for each of the CDs, similar
to what would be included in a regular CD.  I then use the paper cover they
provide as the booklet for the front of the CD.  The result looks pretty
good.

The bottom line here is that these inserts are available via email upon 
request.  All you need is a PostScript-compatible printer and a sharp
pair of scissors to cut the one-piece insert and fit it into the jewel
case.  It's really very easy.  I also have an insert made for the Thomas
Lorango debut album that was included in an issue of CD Review last year.

If you would like the PostScript files for these inserts mailed to you, 
just drop me a line.  If you have ever requested these inserts before,
you will be automatically receiving the updates for volumes 26 & 27 soon.
Please specify which inserts you desire.


Dave
lampson@tellabs.com

Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
From: dvf@kepler.unh.edu (David V Feldman)
Subject: Re: WEBERN
Organization: University of New Hampshire  -  Durham, NH
Date: Fri, 14 Aug 1992 02:51:18 GMT

In article <1992Aug13.200329.1259@uxa.ecn.bgu.edu> ujwb@uxa.ecn.bgu.edu (Jeff Beer) writes:
>In article <eqJgPB2w164w@sys6626.bison.mb.ca> al@sys6626.bison.mb.ca (Haus Der Luge) writes:
>> 
>>Does anybody here have the BOULEZ/WEBERN box set?
>> 
>>I understand it's complete save for WEBERN's early pieces that did not 
>>have opus numbers.
>> 
>>Haus der Luge
>
>I do.  Yup, they just go from Opus 1 to the last one, and include the
>Bach arrangement.  Julliard does the string quartets.  I think it is on
>3 CDs
>
>Jeff

The sales clerk at Briggs and Briggs in Cambridge Mass tells me that
Boulez recorded the rest of Weberns output for a planned Vol. 2, but
that the tapes have since been lost.  Can anyone confirm, deny or
elaborate on this.

There are complete recordings of Webern's songs and also of his
string quartets and trios that contain between them many works missing
from the Boulez box.  Also a set of piano music by Takahashi that contains
a short piano piece without an opus number, perhaps the one that
Margaret Mikulska referred to recently in the context of another
discussion.

David Feldman
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
Subject: Re: When is close close enough for just intonation
From: elkies@ramanujan.harvard.edu (Noam Elkies)
Date: 12 Aug 92 15:24:30 EDT
Organization: Harvard Math Department
Keywords: intonation, intervals
Summary: how does indeterminacy affect overtones?

In article <1992Aug12.071230.6162@newshost.unh.edu>
dvf@kepler.unh.edu (David V Feldman) writes:
:>This brings up a disagreement I have had with some people over when an
:>interval is "close enough" to a small whole-numbered ratio to be consi-
:>dered just. Some have claimed that if it lies within the critical band
:>of the ear's frequency discrimination, the ear can't really tell the
:>difference. Well of course it can - because of beats. That much is ob-
:>vious; the point of contention then boils down to the perception of
:>beats in music. 
:>effect for me.
:
:Before one even plunges into psychoacoustical waters, there is a purely
:acoustical issue.  Frequency as such makes mathematical sense strictly
:speaking only for periodic waves of infinite duration.  This is not
:just a matter of being pedantic.  For short sounds there is an
:indeterminacy principle (on the same mathematical basis as Heisenberg's
:in quantum mechanics) that says essentially that the shorter the sound
:the less definite the frequency.  [...]

I was going to bring this up, but I wonder: in general we're dealing
not with pure sine waves but also with higher partials; indeed it is the
higher partials that are thought to be responsible for the resonance of
intervals with small integer ratios.  So for instance the 5/4 resonance
of a major third might well be spoiled by a discrepancy too small to
affect the fundamentals.  Or is there a physical reason to expect that
overtones must be subject to at least the same indeterminacy as their
fundamental?  That seems to make sense, but I don't know if it's true.

--Noam D. Elkies (elkies@zariski.harvard.edu)
  Dept. of Mathematics, Harvard University
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
Subject: Re: Opera miscastings (Re: Immortal opera recordings)
From: Ken Sherrill <KSSHC@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Date: Wednesday, 19 Aug 1992 15:11:20 EDT
Distribution: usa
Organization: City University of New York/ University Computer Center

Everything wrong with the Callas/Scwarzkopf/Serafin Turandot? ???!!!???

I think this would be the case only if one did not want to hear Turandot per-
formed as a Puccini opera. First, Serafin's conducting is wonderfully idiomat-
ic. If you want Turandot transformed into a sound spectacular, go for the Mehta
recording. Second, to hear the role of Turandot performed -- as it was written
-- for the sort of soprano who triumphs as Tosca, take Callas. I suspect that
most listeners have preferred Nilsson's Turandot to her Tosca because Turandot
was out of the repertory for so long that Nilsson got to define the sound of
Turandot. (I've always been a fan of Nilsson's Tosca -- not her recording with
Maazel, but the many live performances I saw her do. We tend to underrate her
ability to sustain a long Italian line.) But Nilsson does not equal Callas at
creating the character of Turandot. Judged purely as an athletic event, Callas
sings the role very well, and she always sounds as if she's singing Puccini.
(Sutherland, of course, also does quite well on the athletic end of the role,
but she never enters Callas' -- or Nilsson's -- league dramatically.)

As to Scwarzkopf's Liu: Well, it's as Italianate as Nilsson's or Sutherland's
Turandot. She draws a wonderfully rich character; her Liu does more than simper
and suffer. And the pianissimo she floats on"Perche un di, nella reggia, m'hai
sorriso" is one of the most extraordinarily  breathtaking single notes on re-
cord.

Eugenio Fernandi, the Calaf, is not in their league. As a footnote, remember
that Rudolph Bing hired Fernandi to replace Bjoerling at the Met, saying, "Why
have a tenor on his way down when you can have a tenor on his way up?" He's
adequate, but undistinguished.

Serafin and Callas make this Turandot worth owning for the greatness of their
performances and because the remind us of the operatic tradition in which this
opera is rooted.
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
From: ac220@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Rich Szabo)
Subject: Wedding music suggestions?
Organization: Case Western Reserve University, Cleveland, Ohio, (USA)
Date: Sat, 15 Aug 92 17:39:24 GMT


Anyone have some suggestions for good wedding ceremony music?
I would like to solicit your ideas.  The ceremony is a Catholic
mass and I am slated to appear as the groom.  Please post
suggestions here or e-mail to ac220@cleveland.freenet.edu.
Thanks!
Rich Szabo 
--
From: Bill_P_Pearce@cup.portal.com
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
Subject: Re: Wedding music suggestions?
Date: Wed, 19 Aug 92 21:55:29 PDT
Organization: The Portal System (TM)
  <1992Aug16.194403.18619@oct17.dfe.dec.com>
  <1992Aug17.045435.20152@Princeton.EDU>

  In article <1992Aug17.045435.20152@Princeton.EDU> Margaret Mikulska
refers to the discussion about using the Lohengrin music for weddings.
I would not have used it myself but not for the reasons mentioned: when
I hear that tune all I can think of is the words we used to sing to it
when I was a kid: "Here comes the bride, big, fat and wide ..."

I don't recall what we used at mine (12 years ago), but I would have
vetoed Lohengrin for that reason (my wife was in charge of music and I
have forgotten what she picked).

    Bill Pearce (former Princetonian, but trying not to be too pompous)
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical,rec.music.folk,rec.music.misc,rec.music.dementia
From: dvf@kepler.unh.edu (David V Feldman)
Subject: Re: WEBERN
Organization: University of New Hampshire  -  Durham, NH
Date: Sat, 15 Aug 1992 04:04:45 GMT

In article <1992Aug14.184031.23487@Princeton.EDU> mikulska@crux.Princeton.EDU (Margaret Mikulska) writes:
>In article <1992Aug14.025118.11138@newshost.unh.edu> dvf@kepler.unh.edu (David V Feldman) writes:
>>
>>There are complete recordings of Webern's songs and also of his
>>string quartets and trios that contain between them many works missing
>>from the Boulez box.  Also a set of piano music by Takahashi that contains
>>a short piano piece without an opus number, perhaps the one that
>>Margaret Mikulska referred to recently in the context of another
>>discussion.
>
>Thanks to another netter I looked up the Takahashi set and discovered
>that there are two un-opused piano pieces there: a "Kinderstueck" and a
>"Klavierstueck".  I would have to listen to them to make sure that my
>posting referred to the former.  
>
>That's what happens when you don't catalog your CDs ... you find out
>from other people what you have in your collection :-)
>
>Oh, and speaking of un-opused Webern: I don't think anybody has as yet
>mentioned the short orchestral piece "Im Sommerwind".  There are two
>recordings at the moment: one coupled with Brahms's #2 (?), another one,
>with some less known compositions - I'll look up and post the details.
>This piece is really astonishing when you known the "real" Webern -
>there is not a trace, absolutely nothing indicating that W's music will
>go the way it did.  It's also one of the most charming and serene
>orchestral miniatures (it's quite short) I know.
>
>-Margaret
>
I have an old recording of Im Sommerwind paired with Berg's Lulu Suite,
Schoenberg's Theme and Variations Op. 43B and a posthumous Three Pieces
for Orchestra by Webern discovered by a certain Dr. Moldenhauer ``in a
Vienna suburb in 1965.''  The conductor is Ormandy with the Philadelphia.

(Columbia - MS 7041)

Like Margaret, I don't catalog my records, and so I would like to thank
her for reminding of this disk which I usually think of as a recording
of the Berg.  Lately I have been trying to hunt down scores and recordings
of Webern's posthumous works and I had altogether forgotten that I owned
this recording of the Three pieces until I took this record out a minute
ago to post this information.

David Feldman
From: johnson@physics.berkeley.edu (Steve Johnson)
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
Subject: Re: John Cage is Dead
Date: 22 Aug 92 12:45:32
Organization: Lawrence Berkeley Laboratory (Theoretical Physics Group)
	<1992Aug17.060119.26503@Princeton.EDU> <Bt941H.B39@quake.sylmar.ca.us>
Reply-To: johnson@physics.berkeley.edu
NNTP-Posting-Host: physics.berkeley.edu
In-reply-to: brian@quake.sylmar.ca.us's message of Wed, 19 Aug 1992 22:05:40 

In article <Bt941H.B39@quake.sylmar.ca.us> brian@quake.sylmar.ca.us (Brian K. Yoder) writes:

> >But now you have gone even further in exposing your nature: you've told
> >us you're actually happy the man is dead.  
> 
> On a certain level, I am.  In much the same way I am happy to see a liar
> or criminal die.  Of course, I would be happier to see such people reform
> themselves, but what can I say?  I think he was a bad guy who caused a lot
> of damage to the musical world.

I get it.  You are joking, right?  For a minute you had me going, but
comparing composers to criminals-- that's a good one!  I think i
caught on just in time.  I was just about to ask you how i should
reform myself...

--Steve

> 
> So, you think I know nothing about Cage?  Gimme a break.
> 
> You think that 4'33" is "good" or "music" and call ME twisted?  Come on.
> 
> --Brian 
> 
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
From: chrisi@lloyd.Camex.COM (Chris Ischay)
Subject: Re: Die Meistersinger/02
Organization: Camex Inc., Boston MA
Date: Tue, 18 Aug 1992 14:25:58 EDT

In article <714034020.0@nwark.FidoNet>
Frank.Panettiere@f2040.n391.z1.FidoNet.Org (Frank Panettiere) writes:

>Have you heard the Toscanini/Salzburg Festival recording of 1934?  The
>sound quality is, as expected when you have a dubbing of a dubbing of a
>dubbing ..., terrible.  But, the energy of the performance has not been
>equalled since.

This recording is available un-dubdubdubbed at the NY Public Library.  The
source you will listen to is a tape taken directly from the original
Selenophone.  I haven't heard the Meistersinger, but I can vouch for the
Falstaff from the same batch of recordings.

>  [Anyone know of anybody who still
>repairs 20 year old 7.5 ips reel-to-reel tape recorders?])

You don't say where you live.  T&H Electronics in Arlington, MA is a good
place to start.  There are others in the Northeast also.

Chris Ischay
chrisi@camex.com
(note: my address has changed)
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
From: conrad@brahms.udel.edu (Jon Conrad)
Subject: Re: Authentic performance/pitch.
Organization: University of Delaware
Date: Wed, 19 Aug 1992 20:41:05 GMT

In article <1992Aug19.180904.23209@bas-a.bcc.ac.uk> ucap22w@ucl.ac.uk (Martin S T Watts) writes:


>After listening a lot, lately, to John Eliot Gardiner's recording of the B-minor
>Mass and Trevor Pinnock's Messiah, it occurred to me to see whether anybody else
>has any opinions on the use of "authentic" pitch in authentic performance. I use
>quotes because I'm not so sure why all the ensembles have arrived at this
>particular pitch, pretty much exactly a semitone below modern concert pitch,
>for Baroque performance. 

Another good reason to put the word in quotes is that it is always
inapplicable, as most of the better musicians involved in the
historical-performance game recognize.  You'll rarely find the word used
any more except by PR flacks.

My understanding is that that pitch was settled on (by groups that use
it) for reasons of convenience -- it seemed to fit the instruments they
had.  But there's considerable variation, as indeed there was back then.
Norrington used, I believe, an A of 430 for his Beethoven, which is only
slightly below modern pitch.  And Gardiner performed Monteverdi's Orfeo,
on his recording, at a pitch one semitone HIGHER than modern standard
pitch.  (It eased the vocal demands, and he reminds us that pitch was
all over the map then anyway.)

>Judging by the amount of discussion I've seen of this topic, I suppose that the
>matter must seem pretty trivial to most, but it seems to me that there is a 
>case for modern pitch on Baroque instruments, yet I'm not aware of any group
>that practises it. 

Collegium Aureum always did.  There may be others.

>The case would be that ever since the Well-Tempered Clavier
>(and possibly before - I'm no historian) particular keys have built up 
>particular associations for a great variety of composers and listeners, and
>these 'key associations' seem to have remained the same, even if pitch has
>steadily crept upwards. Thus the B-minor of Bach's Mass is very much the same
>as that of Liszt's Sonata, the G-major of the Preludes and Fugues from the 48
>is very much that of Beethoven's Sonata Op.31 No.1 and Dvorak's 8th Symphony,
>as the E-flat of Beethoven's Eroica and Sibelius' 5th is a common image in
>both. There must be many more examples.

Ok, but can't you allow your notion of "the pitch of B" to vary with the
performance you're hearing?  As you rightly point out, these
characteristics are not immutably bound up with particular frequencies,
but with the idea of certain notes.  So one could adjust oneself
accordingly, no?  (I admit I may not fully understand the problem, not
being cursed with perfect pitch.)

Jon Alan Conrad
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
From: diarmuid@uniwa.uwa.edu.au (Diarmuid Pigott)
Subject: Manners, children please...
Organization: University of Western Australia
Date: Fri, 21 Aug 1992 07:19:06 GMT

John Cage was a very clever man. He wrote things like 4-33 simply to
annoy those who would be annoyed by it, in the hope of broadening their
musical horizons.

There is (I seem to recall from Indian Philosophy studies way back) a
notion of "Bija Samadhi" (sp.) that posits a possibly worthless thing,
that makes others learn (trans. "seed of mediation" - much like pearl grit). 

I consider Cage to have been a necessarry antidote to the twelvers and
Stockhausen. He also had a beguiling gift of melody - I can remember
every song of his I've heard. The sonatas for prepared piano are very
beautiful. 

He is, however, not as great as some would say - particularly those who
use his aesthetic to justify their own avoidance of hard work. (That
includes a lot of people who "discovered" classical music from the area
of pop, and knew that Yoko thought Cage was cool).

He is also responsible for performance art, which is great when an
inspired, hard-working, revising artist like Cage is the instigator, but
is worthless when the second-rate use him as camouflage for their total
lack of skill, inspiration, talent and knowledge of tradition.

So please stop shouting at each other because it's pointless. It's like
the Mac/PC debate -  a religious thing.


Xref: sparky rec.music.classical:11489 rec.music.folk:5735 rec.music.misc:21974 rec.music.dementia:1286
From: sens@quads.uchicago.edu (jeffrey david sensabaugh)
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical,rec.music.folk,rec.music.misc,rec.music.dementia
Subject: Re: musical coincidences [SUMMARY]
Date: 20 Aug 92 17:06:03 GMT
Reply-To: sens@midway.uchicago.edu
Organization: University of Chicago Computing Organizations


   A really interesting case of musical coincidence took place a few years 
ago, with John Fogarty (of CCR fame).  Sometime in the 70's, Fogarty had a
falling-out with Saul Zantz (probably misspelled), the president of Fantasy
Records over royalties.  Apparently, CCR's contract with Fantasy was less
than favorable for the band, with Fantasy getting the majority of the 
royalties _and_ getting control of the music rights to most of CCR's music.
When Fogarty released _Centerfield_ (on another label, of course), he included
two rather nasty songs about Zantz.  The album also contained 'The Old Man Down
the Road,' a minor hit.  Zantz, looking (presumably) for revenge for 'Zantz
Can't Dance' and 'Mr. Greed,'  sued Fogarty for copying the music to 'The Old
Man Down the Road' from 'Run Through the Jungle,' a CCR song that Fogarty had
written years earlier. So Fogarty was being sued for sounding too much like...
himself!  The trial lasted only a day, I think, and was quickly decided in 
Fogarty's favor.  Fogarty did have to play the songs in the courtroom, which
must count as one of the strangest places to give a concert.
   Just thought this might be of interest.

						Jeff
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
From: eb11@quads.uchicago.edu (Ernest Barreto)
Subject: DG's "Mozart's Masterpieces" series
Summary: request for opinions on the series
Keywords: DG, Mozart
Reply-To: eb11@midway.uchicago.edu
Organization: University of Chicago Computing Organizations
Date: Thu, 13 Aug 1992 01:49:54 GMT


Does anyone have any opinions they would like to share regarding
Deutsche Grammophone's "Mozart's Masterpieces" series? This is
a set of 25 CD's, budget priced, that shows a picture of a cardboard
upright with a profile of mozart on each CD cover.

E
Organization: University of Maryland at Baltimore
Date: Saturday, 22 Aug 1992 06:53:05 EST
From: Robert Haskins <RHASKINS@UMAB.BITNET>
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
Subject: Re: Glass' music performances
 <CB.92Aug21122858@tamarack13.timbuk>

Chris Brewster was amused to see Glass in an ad for Baldwin recently.
In fact, he only uses a piano to compose -- has for years -- and it's
a Baldwin Acrosonic upright.  I don't know _how_ Glass and Baldwin
got together to work out a representative agreement, but I think
the mention has been made on his programs that he uses Baldwin pianos
for a while, now.

Bob
From: rpe@caviar.cray.com (Roland Piquepaille)
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
Subject: Bernstein's "My name is Barbara"
Date: 17 Aug 92 08:21:06 GMT
Organization: Cray Research, Inc.
Originator: rpe@caviar


Leonard Bernstein's lovers,

I found the references of almost all of Leonard Bernstein's vocal pieces,
using some libraries around the world, including the French Bibliotheque
Nationale .

If anyone wants it, please drop me a line.

Leonard Bernstein composed in 1943 "I hate music", a cycle of five kid songs.

Here is the first one, titled "My name is Barbara" :

  "My mother says that babies come in bottles;
   but last week she said they grew on special baby bushes.
   I don't believe in the storks, either !
   They're all in the zoo, busy with their own babies !
   And what's a baby bush, anyway ?
   My name is Barbara."

In this electoral period, I really enjoyed the coincidence .
Please no flame : this is not an ingerence in american politics,
just a kid song from 1943 .

Have a good day.

Roland Piquepaille.
Cray Research Fraance.
From: jonesm@nic.cerf.net (Matthew Jones)
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
Subject: Stravinsky's Le Nos
Date: 14 Aug 92 14:34:00 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: CERFnet

My brother (who should know these things) said that Orffs's Carmina
Burana is a some what of a rip off of Stravinsky's Le Nos (I might not
have the spelling right). Does anyone care to comment on this?

Matthew Jones
jonesm@cerf.net
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
Subject: Concert Announcement
From: elkies@ramanujan.harvard.edu (Noam Elkies)
Date: 14 Aug 92 00:27:20 EDT
Distribution: ne
Organization: Harvard Math Department
Summary: chamber chorus concert at Harvard Sunday Aug.16


&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&

The Ivory Tower Singers, a summer chamber chorus composed of about
25 members and recent alumni of the Harvard-Radcliffe Collegium Musicum
and conducted by Steven Thomas and Werner Sun, will perform a concert of
unaccompanied choral music at Appleton Chapel of Harvard's Memorial Church on
                     * Sunday, August 16 at 8:00 PM. *
Admission is free; donations to defray music and hall costs are welcome.

Program:

[Werner Sun conducting]

Magnificat (Orlando Gibbons, 1583-1625) [double chorus, English text]
O magnum mysterium (Tomas Luis de Victoria, c.1548-1611) [Yes, *that* O magnum]
Justorum animae (William Byrd, 1543-1623) [5 parts, Latin text from Wisdom]
Two folk-song arrangements (Ralph Vaughan Williams, 1872-1958):
  The Lover's Ghost (a.k.a. "Well met, my own true Love")  and  Loch Lomond

[Steven Thomas conducting]

Two Latin motets (Heinrich Schutz, 1585-1672):
  Heu mihi, Domine [Ps.31:2] SWV 65  and  Quid commisisti SWV 56
Psalm 23 (Noam Elkies, 1966-) [sic; 5 parts, Hebrew text]
Faire is the Heaven (William Harris, c.1925) [double chorus, text: E. Spenser]

&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&


--Noam D. Elkies (elkies@zariski.harvard.edu)
  Dept. of Mathematics, Harvard University