From: jwall@nyx.cs.du.edu (Jeff Wall)
Subject: Re: (LONG) Re: Living alone and liking it
X-Disclaimer: Nyx is a public access Unix system run by the University
	of Denver for the Denver community.  The University has neither
	control over nor responsibility for the opinions of users.
Organization: Nyx, Public Access Unix at U. of Denver Math/CS dept.
Date: Thu, 28 Jan 93 15:33:35 GMT

In article <77582@apple.apple.COM> pooh@Apple.COM (Wendy Nather) writes:
>In the referenced article, sharon@comlab.ox.ac.uk (Sharon Curtis) writes:
>    [long article about how great it is to live alone and be
>	single deleted]
>
>I'm sorry, Sharon, but according to the law as set forth by
>Ed Wright, you cannot possibly be happy being single, so
>please lie down until your delusions pass.  Thank you.
>
Hey, I'm single and I'm happy too, so I say we throw Ed's thoery out the
window :-).

>
>
>
>Seriously, I can relate to a lot of what you say.  The men
>I know just don't seem to spend as many CPU cycles being
>"other-oriented" as women do.  They do what THEY prefer and
>hope that we will put up with it.  A man will happily live
>in his own messy apartment, but not consider that someone
>else might want to walk without tripping over things.  He will
>only start thinking about dinner when HE is hungry, and only
>then will notice that there's nothing to eat in the house,
>complain about it, and then go get a beer and Doritos.  
>Men don't remember personal data relevant to anyone else
>(like birthdays, preferences, family issues, etc.).  Often
>they will give gifts when THEY feel like it and think of it,
>not when they think YOU would like it or need cheering up.

I hope when you say men you mean your men.  It really annoys me when women
talk about men in such general terms.  You simply can't classify all or
even the majority of men with broad sweeping statements.

I don't know, maybe I'm not a real man, I *might* even be classified as a
Nice Guy [tm], but I don't fit your generic description of men.

>In all fairness, men fall along a spectrum between the self-centered
>child and the functional adult who can plan a dinner with more than
>one course and actually cook it.  But it seems to me that when
>a woman gets into a relationship, she starts thinking about "us"
>and jumps into nurture mode, whereas men still think about
>themselves except that they're not as lonely as they used to be.
>It would be nice to find a man who would take it upon himself
>to keep the fridge stocked with MY favorite foods, keep
>medical supplies on hand, nurture personal relationships with
>my friends and family, remind me of my appointments, and worry
>when I was running out of clean underwear!*  It seems to me that
>men do indeed get more out of a relationship than women do.

I think what I'm reading is a classic generation gap type of thing. I
don't know how old you are Pooh but I think it is safe to say you're older
than me.  I've dated women who were approximately my age and they treated
the relationship in the same manner I did there wasn't this dichotomy you
seem to be describing, on the other hand I dated a woman who was 13 years
older than me things were radically different.  Regardless of what I said
or did she was always "mothering" and "nurturing" me (maybe because she
had two kids, I don't know). She kept wanting to take care of me, she was
always doing something like  cleaning the house, going over paper work and
bills, rearranging decorations, and trying to make everything "nice".  In
short, she was very much like *my* mother.  Now don't get me wrong I loved
her to death and might have married her if I didn't have to move to get a
job, but the relationship had a very different flair to it.  The way you
describe men is exactly the way she would describe her ex, I have never
been stereotypical and I would always do things that suprised her.  They
suprised her because I was a man and wasn't supose to be doing those type
of things.  

I guess the point I'm trying to make is that there is a generation gap,
that from my point of view changes many of the things you are complaining
about.

Cheers,

Jeff