From: gmeltzne@jarthur.claremont.edu (Manu)
Subject: Re: casualties during the Intifadah
Organization: Harvey Mudd College, Claremont, CA 91711
Date: Tue, 13 Oct 1992 22:55:05 GMT

In article <4063@copper.Denver.Colorado.EDU> aaldoubo@copper.denver.colorado.edu (Anisa Alnoor Aldoubosh) writes:
>In article <F9qksB1w163w@peewee> peewee@infoserv.com (Philip Stromer) writes:
>>
>>It's nice to see Anisa quoting Mr. Dershowitz.  Next thing, you'll
>>be observing Shabbat.  Oy veh...   :)
>
>Waddaya mean?  Of course I observe Sabbath - only it isn't on Shabbat.  :-)
>
>>Israel at least *has* an opposition voice.  When any Palestinians
>>voice dissent in Judea and/or Gaza, they're rubbed out by some
>>other (Palestinian) faction.  More Palestinians have been killed
>>by other Palestinians in Judea/Gaza than by Israelis.  This
>>seemingly major point is conveniently glossed over by the pro-
>>Palestinian camp.
>
>Facts are facts, Phil.  I am not saying that no Palestinian has been
>killed by another Palestinian, but it isn't simply over voicing dissent.
>We don't see how the 'fair' and 'just' Israeli government is protecting
>their rights - just allowing the bloodshed to continue until the last
>Palestinian is dead and their 'Palestinian Problem' is solved.  I don't
>see you and other pro-Israelis recognizing this or even the undercover
>units that go into the territories to murder.  I hate when you put on
>this front!

	This is so damn typical.  Basically the Palestinians hate
	Israel for killing them and they hate Israel for letting
	them kill each other.  Can't the Palestinians (or you)
	take at least some responsibity for their own actions. 
	Next I'll here that Israel is to blame for the earthquake
	in Cairo.
>
>Where is Judea, by the way?
>
Try the West Bank.


>>I used to read about what a "terrorist" Shamir and the Likud were.
>>Now that Rabin and Labour are in charge, I hear Ashrawi say that
>>"they're just as bad as Shamir."
>
>Doesn't Rabin have the same agenda as the old anarchist, Shamir?  Are
>his policies really that different?
>
	Somehow I don't think that Shamir would ever had wanted to be
	the head of a government if he was an anarchist.  As for
	the difference, the fact that Rabin is willing to give the 
	Palestinians at least an administrative body constitutes a 
	great difference in policy. Also, under his administration, Israel
	is willing to let Palestinians from outside the territories 
	participate in some of the peace negotiations. 

>>Last I read, the Israelis had given up 7,000 housing units in the
>>territories.  Stone-cold stopped the building, midstream.  I'm still
>>waiting to see *any* conciliatory response from the Palestinians.
>>Give me everything now or we'll continue to fight.  That's their
>>attitude.
>
>I think an appropriate 'conciliatory response' from the Israelis
>would be to initially recognize the Palestinian people and their
>self-autonomy.  How do you expect progress to happen when you
>don't even recognize the person/people that you are dealing with
>as human beings worthy of rights and self-determination?  On the
>situation of the freezing of settlements, I think you should read
>this:
>
>		"Soon after coming to office, he [Rabin] took a
>	number of initiatives which seemed encouraging, such as
>	his acceptance of the principle of exchanging land for
>	peace; his reiteration of Israel's committment to Security
>	Council Resolution 242; his partial freezing of Jewish
>	settlements in Arab territories (actually, construction was
>	halted on 5,000 settlements only and was allowed to proceed
>	on 11,000 others!) his suspension (but not rescission) of
>	the law passed by the Likud government criminalising any
>	contacts between Israeli citizens and members of the PLO,
>	etc.  All of which raised hopes that the new Israeli leader
>	realised that the 'other party' should be dealt with as a
>	*subject*, not an object, of history, and that negotiations
>	should do more than just circumvent obstacles in the way of
>	Israel's objectives."
>				3-9 September 1992/Al-Ahram
> 

	 So Rabin's administration is radically different from Shamir's.

>>The intifada could be called off for openers.  Too drastic?  How 
>>about calling off the Arab boycott.  Still too drastic?  How about
>>getting Assad to free the Syrian Jews?  No?  Maybe a Jordanian news-
>>paper could print *something* nice about Israel, which would be a
>>first.  Any sign (except the birdie) would be welcome in Israel.
>
>The Israelis could do a lot toward achieving peace between the
>Palestinians but it isn't in their interest to do so as Palestinians
>have nothing to offer them.  Assad and King Hussein do not fit into
>the picture nor should they be any part of the peace package.
>

	The Palestinians could help themselves by not always demanding
	and by starting to make some concessions.  It's funny, Israel
	makes some concessions, and Palestinians increase the violence.
	

>Do Israelis know what the birdie is?  :-)
>
Duh,I dunno.

Geoff

>Anisa
> 


-- 
Email: gmeltzne@jarthur.claremont.edu            

"The Arab governments were largely responsible for the ruin of the Palestinian
  Arabs"     -Sir John Bagot Glubb
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