From: kcochran@nyx.cs.du.edu (Keith "Justified And Ancient" Cochran)
Subject: Is Peter going to be enrolling at NCSU? (Was: Badges of Honor)
Summary: He starting to sound like he's been drinking the water... 
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Keywords: You expect me to mark my deletions? Dream on... 
Organization: Nyx, Public Access Unix at U. of Denver Math/CS dept.
Date: Tue, 8 Sep 92 02:49:45 GMT

[Now, where did I put that "clue fairy" outfit???]

In article <nyikos.715886268@milo.math.scarolina.edu> nyikos@math.scarolina.edu (Peter Nyikos) writes:
>In <1992Sep6.204246.28271@midway.uchicago.edu> eeb1@ellis.uchicago.edu (e elizabeth bartley) writes:

[Ah, here it is...]

>
>>In article <nyikos.715464590@milo.math.scarolina.edu>
>>nyikos@math.scarolina.edu (Peter Nyikos) writes:
>
>WRONG!!! The fetus, umbilical cord, placenta, and bag of waters all
>come from the original fertilized ovum.  [Can't blame you for not
>knowing this, I didn't know it a month and a half ago either.  It was
>only established well after the start of this century, and most books
>and articles on fetal development don't make it at all clear.]

Clue Time, Peter!  (Zing!)  I would assume that you'll agree that the uterus
_IS_ part of the woman, right?  And that she has a unilateral right to do
what she wants to with her uterus, right?  Well, if she has her uterus
removed, the z/e/f inside is going to die.

As for your paragraph above, please don't attribute your own ignorance to
others on the net.  Also, who cares?  Or is this going to turn into that
stupid "topologically, the fetus isn't inside the woman, so she can't have
an abortion" argument?

>
>I'd 
>wager less than 10% of all PRO-LIFERS know this much, which is why
>they are so uncomprehending when women say that a fetus looks like
>a "clot," "clump of cells", and "mass of tissue," when only contact
>of these latter women with
>embryology might be a miscarriage where the chorionic sac is expelled
>whole, with the embryo/fetus hidden inside.

Peter, I defy you to explain how something with gills "looks exactly like a
human".  I checked two nights ago, and neither myself, Charles, or Lee had
gills.  I checked last night, and Kent doesn't have them either.

For that matter, during most of the pregnancy, the z/e/f is better described
as "humanlike", as opposed to "looking like a human".  The body proportions
are too far out of wack.

>
>>  Presumably it can then be removed.  On the flip side, unless
>>the woman has the right to control the fetus's body (whether directly
>>as in a modern-day abortion, or indirectly by controlling her own body
>>as above), she loses the right to control her own body to avoid the
>>effort and effects of being pregnant.
>
>This is a rather pointless tautology that you have just made.  Of course
>I wouldn't give absolute rights to control over a person's body, just
>as I wouldn't give a fetus (or anyone else) an absolute right to life.

Maybe not, but you sure do seem willing to remove bits and pieces of women's
rights.  After you get some rights of the woman removed, are you then going to
start campaigning to remove "some" of the rights of the Gays, or the Blacks?

>The right to self-defense sometimes involves abrogating that right.  But
>the right to self-defense is not absolute either.  Despite what a lot of
>people think, one does not have the right to kill any old intruder in 
>one's home; one must have real reasons for thinking that intruder poses
>a threat of grave bodily harm to one or more people living in one's home. 

Sorry.  Check out the Colorado "make my day" law.  You're wrong, again.

>
>>In the *real* world, either the woman can control both her own body
>>and the fetus's during pregnancy, or she can't control either.
>
>True to a degree.  She does not abdicate all, or even most, control to
>her body.  

Do you have reading comphrension problems, Peter?  You've just "waved away"
most of a woman's control over _HER_ body when you "wave away" her right
to obtain an abortion.
--
=kcochran@nyx.cs.du.edu | B(0-4) c- d- e++ f- g++ k(+) m r(-) s++(+) t | TSAKC=
=My thoughts, my posts, my ideas, my responsibility, my beer, my pizza.  OK???=
="When trying to choose between two evils, I like to choose the one I haven't =
= tried before" - Mae West, but I think I'm going to try it also...           =
Newsgroups: talk.abortion,talk.rape