HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: lawbkwn@buacca.BITNET (Yaakov HaMizrachi)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Training fighters
Date: 14 Apr 92 19:34:02 GMT
Organization: The Internet

Unto the good gentles who frequent
this place, greetings. May the Lord
pour molten lead down the throats of
all tax collectors.

Johnathon Blackbow posts that he
seeks to squire to someone to train
him to fight.

My lord, in Carolingia, there is also a
thrown objects).
Around here, new fighters may swear
fealty to an unbelted fighter.  Fighters
who so swear refer to themselves as
'men at arms' to whomever they have sworn
to. (i.e., I'm man at arms to lord X.)

I, on the otherhand, prefer the much
more straightforward, non-fealty binding,
economic solution. To wit, pay someone.
This does not necessarily mean in cash (I
suspect some fighters might be offended, or
think it somehow outside the spirit of the game
to accept a cash payment).  Barter of goods or
skills can accomplish the same thing. ('I'll teach
you brewing if you teach me fighting.')  In
my own case, I identified someone both
knowledgable in the weapons form I wanted
to learn and whom I felt could effectively
teach me.  I then struck the following bargain:
one mail haubrek in exchange for training
in polearm and great sword.
I prefer this arrangement to swearing
fealty just to learn a skill.  I have observed
before that there seems to be, especially among
newcommers, a desire to swear fealty to
someone.  I belive people see it as a ticket
to belonging, a way to acquire a patron who
will show them the ropes and introduce them
to folks.  This may be good things, but
I regard fealty seriously (as seriously
as I take anything in this hobby), and worry
that too many people don't realize what they're
getting into.

In Service,
YAakov
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
From: mittle@watson.ibm.com (Josh Mittleman)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: Persona & Classes
Date: 8 Apr 92 19:55:03 GMT
Organization: IBM T.J. Watson Research Center
Disclaimer: This posting represents the poster's views, not necessarily those of IBM

Greetings from Arval!

Tadhg wrote:

> Despite the fact that playing persona games demonstrably has never worked,
> demonstrably does not work, and demonstrably will never work, there
> persist a depressingly large number of people who continue to elevate it
> to the status of a holy ikon. When reasoned argument doesn't make an
> impression, snide is sometimes all one has left.

No, Tadhg, there are other possibilities to be considered: Perhaps you do
not understand what these people are doing and why, or perhaps your notion
of the purpose of the SCA is fundamentally different from theirs.  What
does it mean for a persona to "work"?  If the artifice of persona assists
SCA participants in gaining understanding of a medieval culture, it has
"worked" as far as I am concerned.

> However, to withhold knowledge that one has from a student who desires it
> merely because one's "persona wouldn't know that" is an instantiation of
> a class that I call "stupid persona tricks"... 

Tadhg, are you arguing that a teacher is obliged to try to impart the sum
total of her knowledge every time she teaches a class?  Or that she may not
so much as mention a topic without providing a full explanation?  Perhaps
she had simply decided that she didn't have time to cover that aspect of
A-S poetry, and had hit on this trick as a simple and elegant method to
explain to her class what she would and would not be covering that day.
Indeed, by making passing mention of a topic that she did not want to cover
it that class, she was increasing her contact with her students: Did anyone
suggest that she would refuse to discuss that variety of poetry outside the
class, or away from the event?  By accusing her of withholding knowledge,
you damn her on little evidence.  You also seem to be ignoring the
possibility that the lady was trying to teach something other than just
poetic style: She may have been trying to give her students a context for
the poetry, by showing them how a noblewoman of that time would have fit
into her culture.  That seems to me to be an admirable goal, and one
particularly suited to the SCA. 

Let me suggest another example: Suppose I were to teach a class on
mathematics, from the point of view of a 14th century scholar.  Is this
class flawed because I do not teach my students about mathematical theories
developed after the 14th century?  Is it less value because I do not point
out idea which later supplanted the ones I am discussing?  I don't see why:
I am trying to teach a slice of history, and to explain how 14th century
scholars thought about mathematics.  Do you see something wrong with this
plan for a class?

===========================================================================
Arval Benicoeur                                       mittle@watson.ibm.com
From: branwen@cerebus.ccc.amdahl.com (Karen Williams)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: Why Call Light Blows?
Date: 13 Apr 92 20:43:54 GMT
Organization: Amdahl Corporation, Sunnyvale CA

In article <703051265.F00002@blkcat.UUCP> Robert.Fitzmorgan@f213.n170.z1.fidonet.org (Robert Fitzmorgan) writes:

>       I would say that IF it is clear that the person delivering the blow 
>could have blown you away had they wished but held back out of courtesy then  to
>call "Light" is at the very least impolite.  It's also (IMHO) a bit  foolish as
>you are in effect telling your oponant to hit you HARD.  It's kinda  like
>throwing a deliberate cup shot.  It's legal but it's not very nice.

It's hard sometimes to tell if it the blow was light on purpose or not.
Say, for example, I'm fighting Duke Radnor. He can hit me anywhere he wants
to just about any time he wants to. When he hits me lightly, is he simply
pointing out a hole, or is indicating that he has in fact killed me and 
wants the fight to end?

Branwen ferch Emrys
The Mists, the West

--
                                          Karen Williams
                                          branwen@cerebus.ras.amdahl.com
"Don't whine. Warrior women speak in a husky whisper."
  -- Brat Pack #3
From: gray@ibis.cs.umass.edu (Lyle H. Gray)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: Why Call Light Blows?
Date: 12 Apr 92 14:54:09 GMT
Reply-To: gray@ibis.cs.umass.edu (Lyle H. Gray)
Organization: University of Massachusetts, Amherst

In article <702734416.F00001@blkcat.UUCP> Dave.Aronson@f120.n109.z1.fidonet.org (Dave Aronson) writes:
>Therion <HZS@psuvm.psu.edu> writes:
>
> T> What might make more sense  is to go to an MSR-style
> T> rule of armor worn.  [...] plastic doesn't exist therefore a
> T> fighter in full plastic takes shots as if they are naked.
>
>Oooh!  I like it!

Can't say I do.  We do have documentation that certain pieces of armor (not
large scale) were constructed for tournaments out of whalebone, and the modern
equivalent would be plastic (I am _not_ going to use real whalebone!)

So, if parts of my armor contain plastic (which currently only one, critical
piece does), I would treat it as whalebone, not nonexistent.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------
Lyle H. Gray                       Internet (personal): gray@cs.umass.edu
Quodata Corporation            Phone: (203) 728-6777, FAX: (203) 247-0249
--(My opinions are my own, and do not represent my employer's opinions)--
From: lindal@killer.asd.sgi.com (Linda Levy)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Western crown
Date: 6 Apr 92 22:35:55 GMT
Followup-To: Western Crown
Organization: Silicon Graphics, Inc.

Greetings 

I don't know if anyone already responded to the request 
for the Western Oath that is sworn before the 
fighters begin the Crown lists so I will post it here.

The King and marshal go over the rules and conventions 
of combat. then the fighters and the one they are fighting 
for kneel before the crown and take the following oath:

Herald: You have all heard the conventions of combat 
for this tournement and you all know the rules of the 
list.  Do you swear to abide by these rules and these 
conventions during these lists?

Fighters etc: I so swear

Herald: And do you each have a lady or lord whose
 favor you shall bear in these Lists and who shall reign
 beside you as your consort should you be given victory 
over the field.?

Fighters etc: I do

Herald: And do you each swear that, should you be
 given victory in these lists you and your consort
 will swear fealty to the Kingdom and populace of
 the West and that you can and will fulfill the
 duties and obligations of a King and Queen of 
the West and that you will rule justly and to the
 utmost of your abilities as long as you shall reign?

Fighters etc: I so swear

 There is also a section in the middle about not
 carrying herbs or magical stuff to win victory, 
but I didn't think that was what you were looking for.

We also check memberships of both fighter and consort 
before the invocation, and the fighters have to have 
armor inspection and show their fighter qualification card.

I personally have never taken this oath lightly, and I
do not believe that there are any who do.

Linda l (lindal@killer.asd.sgi.com
From: SJSKAFF%TINY@msus1.msus.EDU ("Ladder Squirrel, MK Crown October AS XXVI")
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Therica and RUM/April 11th..
Date: 8 Apr 92 22:28:00 GMT
Organization: The Internet

Good gentles of the Rialto, I recommend me to you.

  When last I did correspond with the beauteous Lady Therica, she made it 
known to me that, firstly, she was working in a different area which did 
give her but scant net/computer access, and that, secondly, she was
coordinating the upcoming RUM session in her home of Silfren Mere. 
  
   Should any of this assembly wish me to onvey greetings, I would be most
pleased and honored to do so. I may be reached at the address given below. I
shall be departing for RUM on Friday afternoon; therefore, an you wish me to
speak with her on your behalf, you needs must contact me by Friday.

In service to the Society,

Laurysande
--
--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**--**
       I'm not graceful; I'm just excellent. -Earl Sir Dag 
Stephanie J. Skaff                     Laurysande 
CSB Box 1359, St. Joseph, MN 56374     Traveller, Barony of Nordskogen
sjskaff%tiny@msus1.bitNet              sjskaff%tiny@msus1.msus.edu    
                 Member, Compaignie Mercurie
Organization: Youngstown State University
Date: Wednesday, 15 Apr 1992 11:24:00 EDT
From: <00030929@ysub.ysu.edu>
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: archives


Vajk needs your help.

If anyone has archives of the files listed on the ftp with date of April 10, 19
92, I need them.

Or if you can tell me where to find them, that would be good too.

Thanks.

Vajk
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
From: F1.LWD@isumvs.iastate.edu (Lois Domek)
Subject: Re: Calender of Wars
Organization: Iowa State University, Ames IA
Distribution: usa
Date: Fri, 10 Apr 1992 23:23:36 GMT

In article <9204092156.aa01961@mc.lcs.mit.edu>,
SHICOFF@UNC.BITNET writes:
>For fun, let's make a list of the annual wars in the
>known world                                               )
>Lilies (Have heard of, An Tir-?_)

Calontir.  June 10-14 this year.

Lhiannan y Llysieuydd
Axed Root, Calontir
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
From: christer@sue.komunity.se (Christer Romson)
Subject: Persona (was Re: Travel,Persona)
X-Unparsable-Date: Wed, 15 Apr 92 13: 49 MET DST
Organization: The Internet
Date: Wed, 15 Apr 1992 12:00:41 GMT

Fra Tadhg Liath:
> No, the reasoning, is that playing persona games is (supposedly) intended
> to promote authenticity

Maybe this is the source for all disagreement. I've always suposed that
persona games are intended to be fun, or just a generic part of the game. I
don't think they, in most cases, are intended to promote authenticity. I
suspect even that this goes for most uses of personas, but especially for
games played with them.
 ----------------------------  
  |\  | |   /|   | |\  \ | /   
  | \ | |  * |  /| | >  \|/    SCA: Lindorm Eriksson, Nordmark, Drachenw., East
  |   | |\   | / | |/    |     Mundane: Christer Romson, Stockholm, Sweden.
  |   | | \  |  /| |\    |     Email: christer@Sue.KOMunity.Se
  |   | |    | / | | \   |   
  |   | |    |   | |  \  |   
 ----------------------------
From: Stephen.Whitis@f4229.n124.z1.fidonet.org (Stephen Whitis)
Sender: FredGate@ocitor.fidonet
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Recreation vs. Re-creati
Date: Thu, 09 Apr 1992 05:09:08

MS> Tibor (just keep asking them questions, and I'll end up typing
MS> in the whole thing.)

Can I assume that you are saving the parts you enter, so that
you will some day have the whole thing?  When it's done, will you
send me a copy?  Would you like to enter a copy of the Ansteorran
law, and the Ansteorrans' Participant handbook for me? <Grin>

Stephen Whitis/Stephen of the Grove
Steppes/Ansteorra  FIDO 1:124/4229

___
 X MegaMail 2.10 #0:Vultures only fly with carrion luggage.

 * Origin: Herald's Point * Steppes/Ansteorra * 214-699-0057 (1:124/4229)
From: graydon@micor.ocunix.on.ca (Graydon Saunders)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Splitting shields, inquisitors
Date: 14 Apr 92 20:43:55 GMT
Organization: M.B. Cormier INC.

Greetings!

Firstly, Hossien - the Principality of Ealdormere has had an inquisitor.
For my part, you're welcome to this individual; I'd even pay half the
air freight... 

Baldric can't figure out which argument I meant to support by pointing 
out that most of us aren't actually medieval wariors.

Well, my opinions about the shield thing are that some of the better
professional warriors could certainly break a shield with a pole weapon,
and that this would not be done deliberately (risk of edge trapping in
the shield), but as a result of the oponent trying to get the shield to
the axe before the axe got to their head.  This would happen under real
battle conditions - red line adrenalin overload, hitting as hard as
your muscles will allow, and the shield coming up as hard as the other
fellow can manage.   This will really hurt people, even with real armor
and fake weapons.

Which runs us into how we call blows - no one should be able to come up
to someone, wallop them in the shield just as hard as they possibly can,
and say 'm'lord, you can't use that shield anymore'.  I suppose it could
be arranged that there was a shieldbreaker authorization - a real axe, 
a sheet of reasonable approximation plywood (I have no idea what a
reasonable approximation would be, either), and some very dubious marshals
watching to see if the plywood breaks.  Aside from having horrible visions
of what happens when someone cuts their foot off, this seems logistically
impractical.  (how do you label the folks with the shieldbreaker 
authorizations?)

So as far as I'm concerned, if we don't do 'you hit as strongly as
you really hit' (which is bad - someone, somewhere, wants to prove 
their manliness by breaking ribs), we're doing 'everyone hits with
the same force for purposes of blow judging'.  This is why (so far
as I understand it) that a 'good blow' is light enough that anyone
could throw one.  Which means that there is no justification for calling
light on a clean, crisp blow, no matter how hard it landed.  (it is
assumed that any blow would be in 'reality' much, much harder.)

So, maybe there should be a war rule about 'shields last 5 minutes in
the front line', but then there should be a rule about bleeding to
death, and no waterbearers on the field, and so forth.  I really don't
want to have to write eulogies for EAldormere's brave war dead every
year...

Graydon
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: Face thrusts (ooh, anoth
From: hzhao@eagle.wesleyan.edu
Date: 16 Apr 92 07:47:17 EDT
Organization: Wesleyan University

Stephan of the Grove says:
> 
> What this lead's up to is this:  If fighters will not call a light
> shot to the face, we should be giving them full-force shots the
> first time.  But I am opposed to this because, in my oppinion, it
> IS NOT SAFE.  I feel pretty sure that if I hit almost anyone with a
> full-force, blast-them-away shot that it could easily do serious
> damage.

     Very true. I have seen cases where significant neck damage was done as a
direct result of a face thrust. The problem lies in that our armor is 
generally constructed not to provide any protection to the neck as a result of
any such direct force. 
       It is easier to brace for a strike to the side of the head than the
front or back of it. The usual comment "wear a heavy helm/camail to keep the
head in place" is sheer nonsense. For one, it already overstresses the neck and
shoulders before the shot even appears. For another, once the head starts
moving even a touch off a pure perpendicular orientation, the force required by
the neck muscles to restore the orginal position increases drastically as a
function of angle. Remember, too, that you will be applying this force
effectively at the fulcrum point of this angle, so the difficulty is
correspondingly greater.

      Use of things like the neck pads football players use to prevent their
helmets from snapping backwards too far and too fast would make this safer.
They also serve to indicate that such an activity does indeed have potential
dangers. Protect your neck as well as your head if you're in a face-thrusting
zone.

> The bottom line is that I think face-thrust should be allowed, and
> that helm's should be considered to be open-faced, which means a
> light blow should be called as good.  Before I started reading this
> thread, I didn't know that some kingdoms considered their helm's to
> be closed-faced.

        Face-thrusts scare me, for some of the reasons outlined above. However,
if one must have them, indeed the armor considerations should allow for the
calling of 'light' blows as good to hopefully prevent any serious mishaps.

     I understand that the armor everyone is considered to be wearing has
changed relatively recently. Does anyone know what officially it is now?

> Stephen Whitis/Stephen of the Grove
> Steppes/Ansteorra  FIDO 1:124/4229
From: dmbatt@miavx1.acs.muohio.edu (Battman)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: rec.org.sca
Date: 7 Apr 92 01:45:08 GMT
Organization: Miami University Academic Computer Service"

Can someone tell me what the average age for SCA is, along with membership
requirements, areas where there are events, what the whole thing is about, etc.
etc.


Much appreciated!


-David Batt

dmbatt@miavx1.acs.muohio.edu
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
From: bwettlau@watserv1.waterloo.edu (Brand the Black)
Subject: HISTORY IN THE SCA
Organization: University of Waterloo
Date: Tue, 7 Apr 1992 22:49:58 GMT

Greetings to the Rialto,

I am currently undertaking a search for history of various kingdoms.  I have
acquired Duke Finvarr's _History of the Midrealm Kings_ and Orlando
Ambrosius' _Collected Brief History of the Middle Kingdom (Vols. I & II)_,
but I wish to find more.  Are there any published history books of other
kingdoms?  Are there any published works of baronies/shires/cantons of the
Midrealm I have missed?  Does anyone have old newsletters that they want to
part with?

In particular, I am looking for:

_Songs and Deeds and Other Longer Poetry of the Current Middle Ages_
_The Compleat Rivenstar Songbook_
_The Chronicles of Eoforwic_
_If It`s a Fight You're Lookin' For_
_Songs of the Middle Kingdom_
_Midrealm Decennial_
_The True History of Wurm Wald_
_A Musical History of the Middle Kingdom_
_The Rise and Fall of the Dark Horde_

Any old issues of the Pale, or any other kingdom newsletter (but more
preferably East, Calontir, or Meridies).

Thank you for your assistance.

Lord Brand the Black
bwettlau@watserv1.uwaterloo.ca
From: Alex_Hart@mindlink.bc.ca (Alex Hart)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: Mundane Interactions
Date: 16 Apr 92 01:51:27 GMT
Article-I.D.: mindlink.11448
Organization: MIND LINK! - British Columbia, Canada

" Armed Faggot" brings back memories of a Crown Tourny here in Lions Gate some
years ago now, wherein a gentle in full Burgundian garb thought those on the
gate(Late night - very early morning) could use some coffee. He therefore drove
to a nearby 7-11 for such and on leaving, some red neck type held the door open
and growled )apparantly quite loudly) "goddamn fairies ! "
So while the legend as posted may be just that, Myabe there IS something there
?
Alastair the Eastern Traveller
Lions Gate,An Tir
From: BLISSA@UNC.BITNET
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Looking for....
Date: 15 Apr 92 08:21:00 GMT
Organization: The Internet

Looking for the e-mail, snail-mail addresses for:
Joseph of Locksley
James Trebull (James Gahar)
Sir Conn MacNeil
Li Kung Lo
Janos Throngcleaver
Thanks!
Julitta
Royal Bard to Atlantia
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
From: cav@bnr.ca (Rick Cavasin)
Subject: re: Shield Durability
Reply-To: cav@bnr.ca (Rick Cavasin)
Organization: Bell-Northern Research Ltd.
Date: Wed, 15 Apr 92 20:17:56 GMT

Greetings unto the people of the Rialto from Balderik.

Thanks to all who have responded and are still responding.

I will test the axe again against the shield face.  I had
assumed (perhaps wrongly) that the edge on case would be
the worst.  

It should be noted that the axe I am using is not that big
(I will provide dimensions of the head tomorrow).

There seem to be quite a few horror stories involving
Danish war axes.  I would be interested in a mass comparison
between such an axe and a period polearm.

Just to add fuel to the fire, I should have drawn attention
to the fact that modern plywood seem to get chincier and 
chincier all the time, but worst of all it is SOFTWOOD,
fir I believe.  Imagine a shield of hardwood
(I've heard lime was used in Norse shields), hand laminated
with animal glue, then covered with leather.

I used the plywood as a worst case scenario.

Anyhow, I will concede that after repeated blows a shield
would very likely collapse.  How are we to keep track of
this?  Shall we roll a 13 sided die?  As long as a minimum
weight on polearms is not enforced (not that I am advocating
this), I see no special advantage in impenetrable shields.
It may be unrealistic to some extent, but I see no way of
making it more realistic and yet remaining practical.  Besides,
our combat already has all sorts of unrealistic stuff in it.

I must admit to a certain bias when it comes to polearms.
Being a long time shieldman (a rarity in these parts), hearing
polemen come off the field talking about how they got up-teen
kills in a particular battle kind of sticks in my gullet.
When the long weapons start sharing the credit with the guys
who keep them alive, then I'll start having sympathy for their
little trials and tribulations.  For now I'll try my best to be
one >:).

Yours in the interest of ever greater controversy,
Balderik

These are not the opinions of my employer
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
From: cat@piggy.fgs.slb.COM ("Rather B. Fishing")
Subject: You know you live in the Mists when...
Organization: The Internet
Date: Mon, 6 Apr 1992 20:51:38 GMT


So there I was at the usual Beaconsgate hang-out...and someone made a
remark about how cool it was getting now that the sun had gone down.
And Kinene said:
	"Yeah, you can tell it's still spring in the Bay Area -
	 it still gets warm during the day.  Once it gets to
	 be summer, it'll be cold ALL the time..."

Ah well, thus passes another day in the fog bank...

Twcs (who lives in the MISTS)

Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
From: habura@vccnorthb.its.rpi.edu (Andrea Marie Habura)
Subject: Re: rSCA in fiction - need help
Organization: Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute, Troy NY
Date: Mon, 13 Apr 1992 13:23:54 GMT

And another: Heinlein's The Number of the Beast. The SCA holds a tournament
in the last scene in the book. Call it 6 pages.

Alison MacDermot