HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: dnewcomb@whale.st.usm.edu (Donald R. Newcomb)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: 7.5 Swiss Ammo
Date: 1 Oct 92 13:03:45 GMT
Organization: University of Southern Mississippi

In article <9209301656.AA11443@mimsy.cs.UMD.EDU> C08926RC@WUVMD.Wustl.Edu (Rob) writes:
#Can anyone give me a source for 7.5 Swiss ammo, as used in the
#Schmidt-Rubin straight-pull rifles?  I know Norma makes it; is
#there cheaper stuff out there?  How about surplus?

The only alternative that I know of is to resize .284 Win brass.
The rim is a bit small but it works. The Swiss seem to use up
their ammo in target practice before it goes surplus. When a
country has used the same military cartridge for 103 years they
don't tend to dump much when switching calibers.

#I'm also looking for a replacement stock for the rifle - someone
#shortened the original one and I'd like to restore it to its
#original military configuration.

Springfield Sporters or SARCO are the only guesses I can offer.

#One last question:  What's the current value on the Schmidt-Rubin?
#This is a model 1911.  I can't find it in the 13th edition of the
#Blue Book....

I purchased a "sporterized" 1911 a few years back for $70. The
metal was very good and the bore perfect. I would guess less than
$100. An original 1911 carbine may be $200-$250. (US prices)
-- 

Donald R. Newcomb
dnewcomb@whale.st.usm.edu
newcomb@usmcp6.bitnet
From: gwyn@smoke.brl.mil (Doug Gwyn)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: .38 cleaning brush for 9mm?
Date: 28 Sep 92 21:56:55 GMT
Organization: U.S. Army Ballistic Research Lab, APG MD.


In article <9209270431.AA16660@news.cis.ohio-state.edu> rwb@borg.VI.RI.CMU.EDU (Robert Berger) writes:
#Can a .38 cleaning brush (Hoppes) be used to clean a 9 MM?

Why not, they're within a few mils of being the same size.
From: exuslh@exu.ericsson.se (Sherry HArris,xtr,0334)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Update GUNS for sale
Date: 30 Sep 92 01:58:39 GMT
Organization: Ericsson Network Systems, Inc.

The following guns are up for sale:

Smith & Wesson .357 Magnum Model 686 ---------- SOLD
Smith & Wesson 44 Magnum Model 629 ------------ SOLD
 Both Have: 	- orig. S&W grips	
                - adj. sights
		- stainless steel	
                - soft case
		- 6" barrel		
                - exc. cond.
Winchester 20 gauge Model 1400 ---------------- SOLD
  - automatic	
  - full choke	
  - soft case
  - looks new, shot once

Mossberg .243Win Model 1500 ------------------- $290.00
  - Tasco scope 
  - leather sling  
  - hard case
  - Very nice and accurate rifle

Stevens 66B Buckhorn .22 Bolt ----------------- $115.00
  - in good condition
  - would make good christmas present

Remington Model 511 .22 Bolt  ----------------- $115.00
  - in good condition
  - would also make good christmas present

Remington Model B 12 guage auto --------------- $170.00

The guns were priced for quick sale so they are firm.
I would prefer to sale them to someone local (Dallas area)
, but can talk about other arrangements.  E-mail or phone 
the below numbers:

wk. (214) 997-0334		hm. (214) 393-5632

---------------------------------------------------------------
Sherry Harris        		 Ericsson Network Systems, Inc.
exuslh@exu.ericsson.se           Richardson, TX 75081
"These opinions are strictly my own"			 
-------------------------------------------------------------
From: richa@aspen.cna.tek.com (Rich Amber)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Ruger .41 Mag Blackhawk
Date: 1 Oct 92 23:30:13 GMT
Organization: Tektronix, Inc., Redmond,  OR.



There is some rumor that Ruger is not filling any orders for
.41 Mag single-action revolvers. I ordered one a month ago.
The distributor says he hasn't been able to get one since June.
And he says Ruger is not accepting back orders on 41s. So,
I tried another distributor - same story.

Ruger, are you out there? What the heck is this BS?
What's the deal  with .41 Mags and why aren't you doing
something about it? I would really like to have the best
(yes, I  believe Ruger makes the best .41 SA), but if
this is Ruger's idea of customer service, then all
my future business (for ALL guns) is going elsewhere.

Rich Amber
NRA  Lifer, etc., etc.
From: kozowski@ohsu.EDU (Eric Kozowski)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: Rifle Calibers for Long Distance Shooting
Date: 2 Oct 92 16:57:46 GMT
Organization: Oregon Health Sciences University

In article <dlamber-021092013022@m248-99.bgsu.edu> dlamber@andy.bgsu.edu (Don  
Lambert) writes:
# Is this gun going to be sed for hunting or competition ?? Using 7mm will
# make you ineligable for some of the biggest 1000 yard matches. But a gun in
# ..308 could be used across the course (200-600) and long range (600 - 1000).
# 
# As for .50 BMG, it's fun but the cost is still to high.

Not necessarily, I've seen .50 BMG in SGN for $1 per round.  I would think you  
could handload (yes, it can be and is done) a "match" grade round for about the  
same (not counting reloading equipment :-) ). 

--
Eric Kozowski                | System/Network Administrator
kozowski@ohsu.edu            | Oregon Health Sciences University
			     | 840 SW Gaines Rd GH113
503/494-4537                 | Portland, Oregon 97201
From: rayma@nextwork.rose-hulman.edu (Michael A Ray)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: 9mm: Which *not* to buy?
Date: 29 Sep 92 00:03:45 GMT
Organization: Rose-Hulman Institute of Technology


Thank you for all the responses to my recent posting of the .380 vs.  
9mm.  I had pretty much decided to go for the 9mm and most people  
agreed with this.  

Now I have to figure out which one to get as most of you informed me  
that there can be several problems with the Ruger P-89 (aside from  
the "boycott".)

I plan on using this for action/combat pistol shooting (not too  
serious; no compensators, optics, etc), casual target shooting, and  
home defense.  This seems to require higher capacity (12+) to compete  
in the combat matches (I saw my first this past Sunday!).   
Unfortunately, I have quite small hands.  As an aside, are adjustable  
sights a must for combat shooting?  I would like to get a new 9mm for  
less than $400 at a gun show and have listed below what I think are  
contenders regardless of whether they are too big for me.  I plan on  
going to the local store sometime soon and handling as many as  
possible.

AMT On Duty (reliable or not?)
Astra A-100 (someone said these were very accurate)
Browning BDM
Colt All American 2000
Glock 17/19
"Hi Power" clone
CZ-75 clone
Ruger P-89 (until evryone shoots it down again)
Springfield P-9
Star 30M
Taurus PT92/99

Which ones should I not bother considering because they are very  
unwieldy, inaccurate, or poorly made?  Thanks again for the help.

Michael Ray
From: tssmith@netcom.com (Tim Smith)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Last of the Mohicans Artillery
Date: 1 Oct 92 13:03:56 GMT
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services  (408 241-9760 guest)

I saw the movie "The Last of the Mohicans" the other day.  It featured some
great 18th century firearms stuff, such as long-barrelled flintlock rifles
that can be reloaded in 2-3 seconds while running full speed, that never
misfire, and that are good for one-shot kills out to oh about 300 yards.

Seriously, does anyone here have any comments on the artillery in the siege
scenes?  It seemed fairly realistic.  Except perhaps for the fact that most
of the pieces didn't seem to recoil much.  Hmm, perhaps they weren't
actually shotted?

--Tim (tssmith@netcom.com)
From: holger@vmars.tuwien.ac.at (Holger Reusch (Dipl. Gerhard + Joe))
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: Glock 17L? (Re: 9mm: Which)
Date: 5 Oct 92 12:47:25 GMT
Organization: Technical University Vienna, Dept. for Realtime Systems, AUSTRIA

#n9020351@henson.cc.wwu.edu (James Douglas Del-Vecchio) writes:
#  Has anyone shot or heard anything about the Glock 17L?  I'd like to
#  hear some opinions about it (compared to the 17).

#From the two times I fires G17Ls I remember that the longer barrel
didn't a bit in terms of accuracy.  The pistol was later taken from the
market for being kind of a flop.

-- 
| Holger Reusch                             |
| Technical University of Vienna, Austria <-+--- No kangaroos here,
| Dept. for Real-Time Systems               |    sorry!
| holger@vmars.tuwien.ac.at                 |
From: n9020351@henson.cc.wwu.edu (James Douglas Del-Vecchio)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: Handgun Ammunition Debate
Date: 3 Oct 92 20:37:47 GMT
Article-I.D.: henson.1992Oct3.164749.5924
Organization: Western Washington University

nsc!jrr@decwrl.dec.com (Jerry Roe) writes:

##*In those cases where only one torso hit is required*, how does everthing
##turn out?

#But that's self-defining:  if only one torso hit is required, then
#everything turns out fine.  {:^)  Or am I missing something in your
#logic here??

	That's Marshall's logic, not mine.  He discounts all cases
where the first & second (third, fourth, etc) shots fail.  The only
cases counted are where either one shot is sufficient, or the officer
never gets a chance for a second shot.   Only the "happy endings" ever
get counted in his study.

##i.e. the "97% stopper" figure for Fed 125 gr JHP .357 can only be arrived 
##at by discounting all the cases where the first, the second, and the third
##Fed 125 gr JHP .357 to go through the perp failed to make any impression
##on him.

#No, I think this is where it gets confused.  By definition, if it takes
#two, three or more hits, then it's not a one-shot stopper.  I doubt
#Marshall would be claiming the .357 125-gr HP is a 97% one-shot-stopper
#if there were too many instances of *three* of those rounds failing to
#halt somebody, *assuming they were reasonably well placed*.  And that's
#the core of what I understand his argument to be:  when the round is
#properly placed, will the caliber do the job in one shot or not?

	No, he discounts all the cases with multi shot failures.  There
are plenty cases where the 125 grainer fails to make an impression with 
two or more hits.   Marshall's "percentage" ignores these cases.

Jim Del Vecchio
From: rboudrie@chpc.org (Rob Boudrie)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: Are there restrictions on carry in public places
Date: 30 Sep 92 01:57:35 GMT
Organization: Center For High Perf. Computing of WPI; Marlboro Ma

#
#Good question!  I live in Massachusetts and personally know a person who
#was busted for carrying while in a building that served alcohol (bar).  The

Was this person arrested?  Unless somthing else was involved, or there
was some "creative charging", there was no crime to base a complaint on.
(assuming a valid LTC).

#police took away his gun, and his permit to carry.  He later had the gun
#returned (damaged!!), but the pistol permit was revoked for good.  While I
#would never carry my pistol in a bar, I wonder if there are other places (in

The differentiation between "bar" and "non bar" is a spectrum - I would not
carry a gun into a bar, but have carried in facilities licensed to serve
by the drink, and which had a separate bar section (the crew likes to do
Chinese on the way home from the range.).  If I ever found myself in your
friend's situation, I would demand a blood alcohol test, and failing police
cooperation, get one done at a hospital myself.  This is about the only way
to reliably defend yourself against accusations that you were drinking.
Also, If I am ever involved in a shooting incident at a time or place where
one might assume alcohol consumption, I would make a similar request for a 
bac for the record.

Mass General law does not prohibit carrying while in bars, or even while
drunk for that matter!!	It does, however, give the police chief the
right to revoke a license if he determines that you are not a suitable person
to be licensed.  What happens in a case such as this depends on where
the incident occurs; the responding officer, and the home town police chief
who is the one making the revocation decision).

The licensed civilian carrying a handgun should take great care to make
sure that all his/her actions meet would appear "reasonable and responsible",
not just "within the confines of the law".  This goes double for states
where permit issuance is discretionary and a bureaucrat can revoke your
permit without even charging you with a crime.

#Mass.) where carrying a pistol could result in the loss of my permit to carry?
#
#
#Jim Hajjar
#AT&T Merrimack Valley Works
#North Andover, MA
#
#
From: bressler@iftccu.ca.boeing.com (Rick Bressler)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Lee bites back.
Date: 30 Sep 92 01:58:12 GMT
Organization: Boeing Commercial Airplane Group


One of the people in our club had his Lee 1000 blow up on him last week.
That is to say about 10 primers (all that he happened to have in the
priming system at the time) went off.  To be fair, he was by his own
admission moving at quite a clip and probably had a primer that went in
off center.  This coupled with a 'too vigorous' operation of the handle
contributed to the detonation, in his opinion.

Except for slamming the handle around :-) this guy is pretty
conscientious.  He'd made a shield of sorts for the priming system and
wears a full face shield when he reloads.  He suffered only one puncture
wound to his right arm from what he believes was a primer anvil.  At
least he removed one from his arm and thinks that is all there was.

Again to be fair, he was using Federal primers, (reportedly the most
sensitive in the industry) and Lee recommends against using them.  At
any rate, he has already sold his Lee (cheap) and is awaiting delivery
of a new Dillon 650.  Wonder if they took that into account in that
magazine review that placed the Lee ahead of the Dillon?  Lee is occasionally
a VERY good bargin.

He was about the last holdout in our club.  I think all of us have at
least one Dillon.  The record holder in our club has 3 1050's!.  (He
hates changing calibers!)

I have no relationship with either manufacturer except as a satisfied
Dillon customer.

Rick.

Kill your T.V.  Do it today!
From: lriggins@afit.af.mil (L. Maurice Riggins)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Knob Creek location
Date: 1 Oct 92 23:31:57 GMT
Organization: Air Force Institute of Technology

I understand the semi-annual Knob Creek shoot-out will be held the weekend
of October 10th near Elizibethtown, Kentucky.  Can anyone provide more
details like entrance fee, events, specific directions?

Thanks,
-- 
Maurice               INTERNET:  lriggins@afit.af.mil
From: gonzalez@BBN.COM
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Mass. GOAL (Was: Carry in public places)
Date: 2 Oct 92 16:57:34 GMT


Regarding GOAL, Alan Watt writes:

#They should be able to tell you (1) what the law says, and (2) how it
#is enforced.  And I'm sure they would welcome a new member.

Their address, from the current issue of The Message, a monthly
broadsheet they publish for themselves and other New England
organizations, is:

    14 Main Street - Box 272	 508-481-5112 (voice)
    Southboro, MA 01772		 508-481-7091 (fax)

They are also an excellent source of less-political information, like
the names of clubs in your area.  Each issue of The Message includes an
extensive list of matches and courses from throughout New England, by
the way.

				-Jim.
From: skimmel@amex-trs.com (Steve Kimmel)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: 357 mag cylinder & barrel alignment & spacing
Date: 26 Sep 92 15:38:55 GMT
Organization: American Express Travel Related Services


I just purchased a S&W M681 at a local gun show.  The gun is OHIO highway
patrol surplus but looks seldom fired (no scorch marks on the front of the
cylinder & barrel and the bore looks spotless.)  This is my first revolver
since shooting my dad's S&W 38 special some time ago.  I've noticed the 
cylinder moves back and forth along it's axis, going from touching the
rear of the barrel to a gap that an .008(.203mm) feeler gauge will just 
fit into and a .007(.178) gauge will slip through easily.  Is this normal?  
I have not yet fired the gun, probably this weekend.      
The second thing I've noticed is that when the cylinder is pushed against
the barrel, the cylinder face is not 100% flush with the rear of the barrel.
It would seem that the bullet would have to make a slight correction in the
direction it is moving in, resulting in deterioration of the barrel.  Is 
this something I should have a gunsmith look at or is it normal.  Could it be
a reason the OHIO hp allegedly didn't issue the gun(or so the guy said)?
Thanks.

-- 
Steve Kimmel   N7ULW           Phoenix, AZ      |                         
Internet skimmel@amex-trs.com                   | my views only, in no way
UUCP	 uupsi!amexphx!skimmel                  | the views of my employer.
From: rboudrie@chpc.org (Rob Boudrie)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: Citizenship ?
Date: 6 Oct 92 01:02:59 GMT
Organization: Center For High Perf. Computing of WPI; Marlboro Ma

In article <9210040057.AA07842@flubber.cs.UMD.EDU> wwarf@silver.ucs.indiana.edu (Wayne J. Warf) writes:
#In article <1992Oct2.221840.27024@cbnewsj.cb.att.com> wb@mtqua.att.com (Werner Baumgartner) writes:
##Is being a Citizen of the USA a prerequisite to being permitted to legally
##own or purchase firearms ? What standing does a legal alien on permanent
##resident status have in this regard ? Are these Federal issues or local,
##State, municipal issues ?
#
#Federal law only requires that you be in the country legally. Local
#law may vary but I've never heard of any.
#

Massachusetts law provides for the issuance of a LTC (permit to posess and
carry pistols) to an alien ONLY if the alien resides outside the US, and
applies for a temporary permit to attend a match inside the state.
From: JEFFD@elmer.hls.com (Dempsey, Jeff)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Firestar .40 for SALE!!
Date: 26 Sep 92 15:38:59 GMT


Readers,

	There is a person I know selling his Firestar pistol.


			Caliber:	.40S&W
			2 Magazines


		About 300 rnds through it.

			Asking $350.00

	Contact me Via Email @ Jeffd@hls.com
From: Ken_Ziolkowski@transarc.com
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: .35 Remington loads - results
Date: 5 Oct 92 02:19:45 GMT


      **** FOR INFORMATIONAL PURPOSES ONLY ****

   I recently worked up two loads for my Marlin 336 in
.35 Remington. Both loads utilized 34 grains of W748, using
Remington brass and Remington 9-1/2 primers.

   One load used a Speer 220 gr. flat nose bullet and the
other used a Sierra 200 gr. round nose bullet.

   I initially sighted the rifle in at 50 yards and gradually
worked out to 75 and 100 yards, working with 5 round strings of
each load.

   My last 5 round group (using the 220 gr Speer) at 100 yards
measured 3-1/8". The first four shots measured 2-1/2" and I
jerked the last shot to the left to open the group up a bit.

   The 200 gr. Sierra shot very well also, I was able to
consistently hit a 5" plate at 75 yds with no problems with
both loads.

   All strings were shot from a bench, using a blanket for a
rest. Standard Marlin open sights were used.

   (I am not the worlds best shot and I'm sure that a better
shooter could improve on the groups that I shot.)

   My guess is that this round moves downrange at approx.1800
fps. Recoil was moderate in this load and my shoulder was not
sore after 40 rounds - much easier to shoot that my '03 Spring-
field. I don't flinch as much.

   I'll work up another 40 rounds, using the same load and try
to tighten the group and see how it shoots out to 150 yds. I
bought the Marlin as a "brush gun" to hunt deer in northcentral
Pennsylvania and I think that it should do the trick. Most of
the area (where we hunt) is heavy tree cover and most deer are
taken within 75 yds.

   Thanks to all on the net who recommended loads and how much
crimp to use. None of the bullets slipped while in the tube
magazine.

  This post is for reference purposes and should be used with
caution. I recommend that you check your reloading manuals for
recommending loading data before doing any reloading and/or
shooting.

Ken Ziolkowski

           **** FOR INFORMATIONAL PURPOSES ONLY ****
From: gwyn@smoke.brl.mil (Doug Gwyn)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: .40 S&W Help Sought
Date: 4 Oct 92 02:27:02 GMT
Organization: U.S. Army Ballistic Research Lab, APG MD.


In article <1992Sep30.144314.20710@news.yale.edu> watt-alan@net.yale.edu (Alan Watt) writes:
#I can easily imagine situations where the trigger catches some part
#of the holster, or part of your shirt-tails while you are pushing the
#gun into the holster.  With an external hammer you can tell this is
#happening and stop before a discharge occurs.  With a manual safety
#you can be reasonably assured the gun won't discharge no matter how
#hard you press the trigger.  With neither, you are counting on feeling
#a difference of 5lbs in holstering effort.

Time for a reality check.  Apart from the misrepresentation (it is
not merely a 5-pound force but rather a sustained trigger motion of
more than a quarter of an inch, after release of the trigger lock,
followed by the nominal trip force), the scenario is IMPOSSIBLE.
I just conducted the experiment with my Glock pistol and Pro-Line
holster; there is NO WAY one can even come close to snagging the
trigger on the holster even if one tries, and I was unable to
arrange even deliberately for a caught shirttail to pull the
trigger.  (The closest I could come was to completely miss the
holster pocket and jam the trigger area into the fastening straps,
which still did not release the trigger lock.)  If this scenario
cannot be deliberately arranged, then it certainly will not occur
by accident.

If you prefer M1911A1s then by all means stick with them, just
don't insist that it's the only right way to design a pistol.
From: kozowski@ohsu.EDU (Eric Kozowski)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: Rifle Calibers for Long Distance Shooting
Date: 1 Oct 92 23:31:04 GMT
Organization: Oregon Health Sciences University

Try .50 BMG.  Should be able to get 2500 yards in the right weapon.

--
Eric Kozowski                | System/Network Administrator
kozowski@ohsu.edu            | Oregon Health Sciences University
			     | 840 SW Gaines Rd GH113
503/494-4537                 | Portland, Oregon 97201
From: lvc@cbvox1.att.com (Lawrence V Cipriani)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: Silencer questions
Date: 2 Oct 92 11:39:32 GMT
Organization: Ideology Busters, Inc.

mjalava@lk-hp-21.hut.fi (Mika Matti Jalava) writes:

#The weird thing is that the first shot is always much louder than
#subsequent ones. The sound described above was the one made by the
#first one, the latter ones are like like clapping your hands together.
#maybe this has something to do with hot gases left in the tube after
#the first shot.

You are correct.  To prevent this effect some silencers can be
pre-charged with nitrogen.  I recall this was to purge oxygen from
the chambers but I could have remembered it wrong.  See one of J.David
Trudy's silencer books from Paladin Press for more details.
-- 
Larry Cipriani, att!cbvox1!lvc or lvc@cbvox1.att.com
"If you shoot a mime, do you have to use a silencer?"
From: jimfost@matt.ksu.ksu.edu (Jim Foster)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: Shotgun speedloader?
Date: 28 Sep 92 11:21:08 GMT
Organization: Kansas State University

dd908821@longs.LANCE.ColoState.EDU (Douglas Deden) writes:
#shotgun magazine exist?  I envision something like a slightly curved
#tube that is aligned with the magazine, and then a plunger is pushed
#to move the shells from the speedloader to the magazine.  Does anyone
#make something like this already, or should I get busy and make one
#quick and apply for a patent?

Seems I saw something of the sort in one of the hunter's supply catalogs. It's that one with that fat guy wiht the mustache and all the item copy is written in first person.
 
-- 
Jim Foster                [        The stars are right... Cthulhu in '92!     ]
jimfost@matt.ksu.ksu.edu  [       "Why choose the lesser of three evils?"     ]
Kansas State University   [                                                   ]