From: payner@netcom.com (Rich Payne)
Subject: Re: Areas of Feminism (was Sexism: Defined)
Date: Fri, 11 Sep 92 06:06:06 GMT
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services (408 241-9760 guest)

In article <Albert-Lunde-100992220349@socrates.acns.nwu.edu> Albert-Lunde@nwu.edu (Albert Lunde) writes:
>
>In article <wqtn3!j.payner@netcom.com>, payner@netcom.com (Rich Payne)
>wrote:
>> So what then are ""the major effect(s)" of feminism. You keep alluding to
>> them, how about a simple list, no need to go into any details.
>
>I don't have the time to try to put together a really well constructed list
>at the moment, but I have something on-line I wrote in another context that
>may syggest what I am thinking of. This is not a list of achievements, just
>of areas where feminists have been active. 
>
>(I originally wrote this in an e-mail discussion about different
>ideological flavors of feminism.)
>
>>As yet another counter to trying to look at feminism entirely in
>>terms of ideoligical categories, consider its various goals and
>>activities.  I think I could list a number of specific spin-off
>>sub-movements from feminism, and as I suggested in another posting
>>these have coherence as schools of thought, though the are drawn
>>together by an activity.
>>
>>(One connection we may make is what activities form our entry points
>>into feminism and how are we engaged with it on a continuing basis.)
>>
>>Some examples of "sub-movements":
>>
>> Consciousness raising

This could mean anything, and actually means nothing.

>> Socialization of Childern

Ditto.

>>
>> Legal Rights
>>   ERA

I support this in principle, while noting that the leglislative results
of feminist action (to the best of my knowledge) would be illegal by the
ERA.

>>   Employment/ Housing/ Insurance / sex as a Civil Rights category

Please give details.

>>   Reproductive Rights

Again, what I have seen would be illegal by the ERA, ergo, extremely sexist.
So what?

>> Women's Heath

Details again, I will be happy to compare my knowledge to yours here. What
does this have to do with anything, especially this discussion?

>> Lesbian Rights

Another SIG, if it wont wash for the military, it is as biased as the
pro and con propaganda for the military. Also, do feminists have a common
viewpoint as far as this goes?

>> Womyn's Books/Music/Art

A(n) in/direct result of the feminist movement? Show me.

>> Women's Peace/Anti-Nuclear

I have seen no peace here, what does this have to do with a pro-feminine
stance? Remember the original question?

>> Wages for Housework

When and where, and do men and women get the same salary?

>> Compariable Worth

Subjective mumbo-jumbo. How do you rate what you do? Is a billion a month
enough?

>> Women and Religion

So?

>>   Christian Feminism
>>   Jewish Feminism

Is this possible? I mean, the Bible says...

(This is not my argument, but can you claim to be both Christian and
reject the word of god? Most say no)

>>   Feminist Wicca

Again, so what?

>>   Woman Church

Here I am ignorant, please elucidate.

>> Self Defense
>> Take Back the Night

No clear unambiguous connection to the feminist movement here, except for
the specialization on how to attack men, which is anti-male by my thinking,
and out of bounds by the original question. BTW, the classes which I am familiar
with teach how to attack men, not an (nonsexed) attacker.

>> Anti-Pornorgraphy

Clearly this is not an answer to the original question. Or else you will have
to give me a detailed explanation.

>> Feminist sex radicals

Say what?

>> Addiction/Codependence

How is this a sexist issue? As a follower of John Bradshaw, and having
attended several workshops, I think that this has no place here.

>>I know I'm leaving out big things in the list above, but I'm trying to
>>suggest how feminism hung together not only around the "big
>>picture" of ideology but also around what women were *doing*.

I see nothing here clearly pro-female, and much clearly anti-male. I
suggest further explanantion is required, or you have not touched upon
the question.

>I think feminism's activities in all these areas have had social impact --
>though I measure this more broadly in terms of changing lives, rather than
>only laws passed.

But has this "social impact" had any positive social value? That is the 
context you have placed it in. I suggest most of your examples have had
negative social value. But then, that is again subjective. How do you
measure this?


Rich

payner@netcom.com



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