HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: David.Martland@brunel.ac.uk (David Martland)
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
Subject: Re: Brahms symphonies question
Date: 9 Nov 92 14:50:03 GMT
Organization: Brunel University, Uxbridge, UK
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1 PL6]

Robert Martino writes

     >I first was exposed to Brahms music by accident, I went to a concert
     >at Boston University with a friend to hear some renaissance music
     >but they had changed the plans and so Brahms was scheduled then.
     >
     >However, my disappointment had faded by the end of the concert after
     >they played Brahms Piano Quintet in F-minor (Op.34) because I
     >was simply amazed by it.  I am getting that on CD soon (what are
     >good recordings of it?) but I've heard his symphonies are very
     >good and would like to hear what people have to say about them or
     >maybe just one in particular.
     >
     >Rob
     >
     >-- 
     >Rob Martino                          |     (clever or particularly funny
     >martino@wpi.wpi.edu                  |      philosophical quote here)
     >Worcester, Massachusetts USA         | 
     >

1. I have always enjoyed Maurizio Pollini's version of the Piano Quintet on DG.

2. Re symphonies - try 

	a)	Bruno Walter for all 1-4 - superb. (CBS)
	b)	Eugen Jochum's version of #1 on EMI (Laser I think) is outstanding.
		I went to a concert concert of this in the Royal Festival Hall
		(London) by Jochum about the time 
		it was recorded - it was electifying - even more so than the
		recording - one of the best concerts in a lifetime! My impression
		was that the audience were absolutely overwhelmed.
	c)	Boult's version of #1-4 are restrained, but very good (EMI Studio)
	e)	Levine's RCA version of #1 (I had it on LP) is very good - very
		dynamic.
	d)	a real novelty - Roger Norrington's "period" version of #1 on EMI -
		I haven't heard it right through, but it sounded good.
	e) 	I'd like to have Bernstein's versions, but I don't know them well.

Some really new versions are supposed to be good - I haven't kept bang up to date -
the recordings will probably be better, but I doubt whether many will beat Walter's
set.

For a choice of symphony - well first of all I'd say get the lot - but if you don't
want to do that, I'd probably suggest #2 -it's a beautiful work - perhaps Riccardo`
Chailly's version on Decca/London would be a good one to try. My personal favourite
is #1

Dave Martland, Dept of Computer Science, Brunel University, UK
From: zornow@hpcc01.corp.hp.com (Claudia Zornow)
Date: Fri, 6 Nov 1992 17:44:49 GMT
Subject: Re: Lorin Maazel and the Ring
Organization: HP SSD R & D
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical

hsmoliar+@cs.cmu.edu (Harold Smoliar) writes:

>                                  ...I have seen no plans in our
> schedule for more Ring.  We are, however, planning to do Tristan one act
> at a time in concert over the the coming three seasons.  Don't know if we
> will be recording it, though.
> My friends in Cleveland are now tackling the Ring and I believe that they
> are recording so you might look for that in a year or so.

My mother recently attended Cleveland's concert performance of
"Die Walkuere", presumably a preparation for the recording.

She said it was glorious.

Claudia
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
From: dbarker@spang.Camosun.BC.CA (Deryk Barker)
Subject: Re: HAYDN (& unrelated, Bax)
Organization: Camosun College, Victoria B.C, Canada
Date: Tue, 10 Nov 1992 16:38:20 GMT

In article <MARCA.92Nov10081011@wintermute.ncsa.uiuc.edu> marca@ncsa.uiuc.edu (Marc Andreessen) writes:
>In article <hudu.721387565@well.sf.ca.us> hudu@well.sf.ca.us (Scott
>Marley) writes:
[....]
>   As for period instrument performances, I like the Salomon Quartet's
>   recordings of the string quartets a lot; they've recorded op. 20,
>   71, and 74, and an op. 33 set is supposed to be on the way.
>
>According to the liner notes for Op 20, ``Op 33, Compact Discs
>CDA66681/2 (2 records, available separately)''.  Haven't seen 'em yet,
>though.

The Salomon's have also recorded (1989) the Opp.77 & 103 quartets -
how come Op.77 isn't as well-known as Op.76? Is it because there
aren't 6 of them? There is also a recording of Opp77&103 on the Astree
label by the Quatuor Mosaique, which includes Christophe Coin on
cello, which, for my money, is even better. They have also just
recorded Op.32 (or is it 33?) on 2 discs.

Deryk Barker, Computer Science Dept., Camosun College, Victoria B.C.

Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
From: r4smith@student.business.uwo.ca (Richard Smith)
Subject: 1812 Overture
Organization: University of Western Ontario
Date: Sat, 14 Nov 1992 02:24:51 GMT

Does anyone have a Melodyia recording of the 1812 overture that replaces 
the Tsarist national anthem with the Soviet one? John Ward at Harvard had 
one. I'm going to Russia in May and would dearly love to find a copy. Can 
anyone provide more information (catalogue #, performers, year. . .?)

r4smith@student.business.uwo.ca (Richard Smith)
Western Business School  --  London, Ontario
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
Subject: Re: Bare vs. bald (Was re: Bare Vs. Bold [sic])
From: phoogenboom@eagle.wesleyan.edu
Date: 9 Nov 92 11:58:25 EDT
Organization: Wesleyan University

In article <cerrlss.721214041@techunix.technion.ac.il>, cerrlss@techunix.technion.ac.il (Shahar Steiff) writes:
> 
> Still on the Bold Vs. Bare mountain.
> I have asked a Russian speaking friend and got the answer :
> In Russian, when you refer to a mountain with no trees on, you say  
> it is a BOLD mountain.
> In English, the same mountain will be called a BARE mountain.
> I don't know what M.Mussorgsky had in mind when he wrote "Night on a
> bare/bold mountain" but in Russian it is called "Night on a BOLD
> mountain". When translating to English, one may either stick to the
> origins and lose the meaning, or stick to the meaning and lose the name.
> 

First of all, for your information, "bold" should read "bald" as the difference
in meaning is significant.

Second of all, I know of three treeless peaks in New Hampshire whose names
contain the word "bald," so it does not lose the meaning to translate the title
as "bald."

Peter Hoogenboom
phoogenb@ucs.indiana.edu
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
From: ralph@falcon.SLAC.Stanford.EDU (Ralph Becker-Szendy)
Subject: Re: Tchaikovsky's Piano Concerto No. 1
Organization: Stanford Linear Accelerator Center
Date: Wed, 11 Nov 1992 22:44:14 GMT

In article <14638.2b011384@ohstpy.mps.ohio-state.edu> 
egras@ohstpy.mps.ohio-state.edu writes:
>	While we're asking about best Tchaikovsky recordings, would anyone
>like to recommend a favorite recording of his Piano Concerto No. 1 in Bb 
>minor?
>I recently bought the Arthur Rubinstein recording and am disappointed.  The 
>fact that it has the crackling of the LP transfered to CD sort of bothers me,
>but still this recording lacks the intensity that I desired.
... rest deleted.

Personal answer: Horovitz (with Toscanini). The main reason is the
double octave run at the beginning of the coda of the 3rd movement
(about 4:30 into the 3rd movement). Horovitz not only plays it at full
rated speed (which is superhumanly fast), but when he does, it still
sounds like music, and has "Klangfarbe" (color of sound) and detail of
power and rhythm to it. Most other pianists take that run at about
half speed. Some (like Clifford Curzon) take it at exactly half speed
(which to me is slightly less annoying than a random slowdown). The
only other recording I know which attempts to take it at full speed is
Byron Janis (I think, the CDs are at home), but it sounds horrible,
uneven, clearly at the very limit of his ability. That's exactly the
thing I like about the Horovitz recording: I never get the feeling
that his artistic expression is being limited by any technical
considerations; I know of no other recording of Tchaikovsky where that
happens. Note: That doesn't mean that I exactly happen to agree with
Horovitz' interpretation (it seems too driven by motorics and
brilliance at some points, although the 2nd movement has very nice
spots which he takes lyrically). It's just that to me all other
recordings of that concerto sound like amateurs fighting with the
score, not like professionals playing it. Also note that I have
obviously not listened to all existing recordings.

-- 
Ralph Becker-Szendy                          RALPH@SLACVM.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Stanford Linear Accelerator Center                      RALPH@SLACVM.BITNET
M.S. 95, P.O. Box 4349, Stanford, CA 94309                    (415)926-2701
My opinion. This is not SLAC, Stanford U, or the US DoE speaking. Just me.
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
From: kos@cunyvms1.gc.cuny.edu (Bob Kosovsky)
Subject: Re: Lili Lehmann
Reply-To: kos@cunyvms1.gc.cuny.edu
Organization: Computer Center, CUNY Graduate School, New York NY 10036
Date: Mon, 9 Nov 1992 12:41:42 GMT

In article <YeuV3Yq00iV3I4LX5Q@andrew.cmu.edu>, Michel Fougeres <mf0w+@andrew.cmu.edu> writes:
>Does anyone know about Lili Lehmann's life and career ?   Was she the
>mother of Lotte Lehmann ?   Thanks for any lights on this.

No, they were not related.  Lilli Lehmann was probably one of the most
unusual sopranos, being able to switch from bel canto to Wagner and back.
Now some people do this for show in our own days, but Lilli Lehmann based
her career on this versatility.  She was in the first Bayreuth ring in 1876
(as a Rhinemaiden) and though retired, made two series of recordings in
1905 and 1906.  She was over 60 at the time, and her idea was that her
recordings would be pedagogical tools.  They may not always be the most
pleasant or beautiful singing, but there are many, many interesting things
to be heard, especially since her recorded repertoire covers many different
works (though sadly only "Du bist der Lenz" of Wagner).  I highly 
recommend some of her recordings if you have an interest in singing.

Bob Kosovsky
Graduate Center -- Ph.D. Program in Music(student)/ City University of New York
New York Public Library -- Music Division
bitnet:   kos@cunyvms1.bitnet        internet: kos@cunyvms1.gc.cuny.edu
Disclaimer:  My opinions do not necessarily represent those of my institutions.
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
From: velde2@jhunix.hcf.jhu.edu (Velde Francois)
Subject: Re: Brahms
Organization: HAC - Johns Hopkins University, Baltimore
Date: Thu, 12 Nov 1992 18:17:45 GMT

In article <BxM4Gt.Dtn@cmcl2.nyu.edu> tony@cns.nyu.edu writes:
>I can't resist adding George Bernard Shaw's view of Brahms to this (quoting
>frommemory): "Brahms is like a gigantic baby, who insists on dressing himself
>up as Bach or Handel, and making a prolonged and intolerable noise".
>
>To be fair to GBS, he later recanted and allowed as how he had misjudged
>Brahms.

Brahms himself was not kind either: he called Bruckner's symphonies
"boa constrictors."

-- 

	Francois Velde

Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
From: acid+@cs.cmu.edu (Christopher Colby)
Subject: Re: Mozart recommendations
Keywords: Mozart, chambermusic
Organization: School of Computer Science, Carnegie Mellon
Date: Fri, 13 Nov 1992 05:39:52 GMT

In article <2B028B3D.9917@news.service.uci.edu> jdooley@maemaster.eng.uci.edu (John R. Dooley) writes:
>In article <1992Nov12.123731.17169@hsr.no> oppen@hsr.no (Eirik Oppen) writes:
>>1     The clarinet quintet, K581
>
>Two recommendations on this one.  First on Denon there's David Schifrin
>and members of the Northwest Chamber Orchestra.  It's coupled
>with the Clarinet Concerto.  This recording is best if you want the

It's on Delos, actually.

Driving into work the other day, I turned on the radio in the middle of the
last movement of this piece.  I really liked the performance.  I liked the
dynamic between the players, but most of all I loved the clarinetist's
involvement with the music.  I waited in my car until the end so that I
could find out who it was.  Guess what: Stoltzman.  And all this after
readin on a thread a few months ago how he should be avoided at all costs
for anything before this century.  I suppose my taste must be different.
Granted, though, all I heard was most of the final movement.

BTW, I love the aforementioned Shifrin disc.

-chris
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
From: roger@crux.Princeton.EDU (Roger Lustig)
Subject: Re: MESSIAH, technical question....
Originator: news@nimaster
Reply-To: roger@astro.princeton.edu (Roger Lustig)
Organization: Princeton University
Date: Wed, 11 Nov 1992 02:53:58 GMT

In article <BxIHAw.KMA@encore.com> bseymour@encore.com (Burch Seymour) writes:

>We are working up a full Messiah performance, and not being a person
>who has done this every year since I was born, a lot of it is new
>to me. I don't claim a lot of knowledge on this, but I know what I
>can comfortably sing, and there's a phrase in His Yoke is Easy
>(but his notes are hard) which seems wrong to me. I wonder if there
>are any Handel scholars out there who can help?

You'll get my bill in the mail.  8-)

>On page 101 (letter B, measure 23, G Schirmer ed 38) the basses sing
>li-i-ight, rest, his yo--o-olk. "Light" ends up on C below middle C
>"his" on e-flat an octave+ above that, then back down to f on "yoke".
>It's a hard leap to make for us poor basses (well me anyway). Add to 
>that, we end up singing above the alto line on "his". It seems to me
>that "his" would be a *lot* easier to sing on the e-flat an octave
>lower than written. Both are written in the accompanyment, for whatever
>that may be worth.

The accompaniment isn't worth much, especially in a Schirmer edition...

>Leaps like that are Beethoven's thing, not Handel :-)

I guess you haven't gotten to the beginning of Part II yet, with
"And with his stripes we are healed."  Leaps?  You want *leaps*?  
At least this one's diatonic.

>Any thoughts on that? Or am I just being a wimp :-)

You are.  No, seriously, the high E flat is there for several reasons.
In m.23, the music  comes to a close in C minor, a fairly far-out
key in the world of B flat.  With your entry on the last 8th note of
the measure, the music suddenly returns to the home key, wrenching the 
entry in the altos, which had begun in C minor, back with it.  This is 
a striking moment, and marks the second half of the piece.  

So what happens if you sing the lower E flat?  Well, this crucial 
entry doesn't get the leap that all the other entries of the subject
do, and kinda gets lost -- that E flat is calling attention to itself and to
what follows.  (Look at the bass: d c g f eb c g eb' f -- the higher e flat
lifts out the event that'staking place at that moment; otherwise, it's 
just one more note in a small range.  

Now look at the dynamics: piano.  Yeah, that makes the E flat tougher to
sing ("Float it, basses, just let it float!"  grrrrr....), but makes the
emphasis even more important.  

It's worth the effort to sing the note Handel wrote for several very
good reasons -- that moment is magical if done right--Handel sneaking
back to the home key after the big cadence.  It's also the moment at 
which the imitation is compressed to half a measure: the theme that 
voices were singing  four measures apart at the beginning is now
tightly overlapped.

As for the accompaniment, there isn't really any at that point.  Strings
and oboes lay out, and only the basses (supporting you, you'll be pleased
to know) and the organ are playing along.

So don't blow it, hear?  8-)

Roger
From: ucap22w@ucl.ac.uk (Martin S T Watts)
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
Subject: Re: It's in the wrists.
Date: 10 Nov 92 13:44:08 GMT
Organization: Bloomsbury Computing Consortium

spacefox@acs.bu.edu (Godfrey Degamo) writes:

>     Well, I tried playing some Chopin when I realized that my hands
>were a bit small for some of the chords in his music!  I hate that!
>Anyways, I heard that Chopin had big hands, that Rachmaninoff had
>big hands, and that Liszt had real huge hands.
>     I believe someone told me that Liszt's could span 12 keys with
>his hand.  I can only span with great difficulty, 10. -with real
>great difficulty.  Actually, its practically only 9 keys. *sniff*

>     Anyways, is there any great piano composer/virtuoso who had
>hands the size of mine or smaller?  (I'm looking for insipiration! :)

I don't want to demoralise you, but I'd heard that Chopin actually had not-
particularly-big hands, and I haven't really seen anything in his music that's
at odds with this - most of his chords spanning more than a 9th seem to be
arpeggiated. I think my span is about the same as yours but I've found the
difficulty in his music more to do with practice in stretching and building
up stamina in general than with a limiting hand-size. The A-flat major Etude
is good practice for developing these qualities. My experience of playing 
Liszt is pretty limited, but crashing through the 1st Mephisto Waltz or the
B-minor Sonata I've not seen many bits requiring a large span - just practice.

The real sods in this respect seem to be Brahms and Schumann (I don't know
about Rachmaninov). I've heard that Schumann had a bit of an inferiority
complex himself about the size of his hands, and that he actually slit the
"webbing" between his fingers in order to increase his span (though this may
be a tall story - perhaps one of the group's resident encyclopaedias might
like to comment). I find Beethoven, too, more frustrating than Chopin or
Liszt, but I think you just have to develop a tidy way of spreading chords
and forget about it.

Keep practising!

Martin Watts.
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
From: herbster@opal.cs.tu-berlin.de (Christoph Herbster)
Subject: Re: Favorite Ring recordings
Organization: Techn. University of Berlin, Germany
Date: Tue, 10 Nov 1992 15:44:32 GMT

hurben@lamar.ColoState.EDU (Mike Hurben) writes:

>Well, I knew I would get around to this sooner or later...I was wondering what
>opinions are out there concerning various Rings, especially the ones that I
>have never heard, such as the Haitink, von Karajan, or the one sung in English.
Haitink: Iheard only Siegried, it's a very good recording, you should hear thisKarajan: R and W very good but S and g very ugly!

>I own the Levine on both CD and video tape, and S and G from the Solti cycle.
>I have heard most all of the Solti, but there is a lot that I don't like...
>  The sound quality can be pretty bad, at times.  I think that it really takes
>it's toll during the forest murmurs - it does not sound very 'delicate,' as I
>think it should.  I also don't care too much for the love music, especially
>Siegmund's 'Wintersturme.'  To me it sounds forced, unromantic. 

No, only without trash (in German: Kitsch).

  Where Solti
>makes up for this is in the more dramatic scenes, namely the entry into Valhalla
>and Act I of S.
>  It has become impossible for me to listen to Act I of S by Levine.  Compared
>to Solti it is absolutely lifeless, boring chatter.  With Solti, you can almost
You are right at this topic, I've haerd it on CD and seen the Met Ring in TV,
the most boring (music) and trashy (scene) one I've ever seen. (We have a very 
interested Ring in Berlin ( a great Wotan is Robert Hale (U.S.) Does anybody in
America know him?)).

>smell the furnace and molten steel, and the Mime of Stolze just blows away the
>good intentions of Zednick.  But when it is time for the 2nd act, I go back to
>Levine and his lovely forest murmurs, and the Forest Bird of Kathleen Battle is
>very nice.  The other things I find supierior in the Levine are:  James Morris
>is a great Wotan.
 Hans Hotter quite not?
 Behrens is a great Brunhilde.  Matti Salminen is an AWESOME
>Hagen - he scares the daylights out of me!  Act I of DW is stunning! Both Lakes
Yes, I've heard him up to 9 times in Berlin as Hagen.

>and Norman sing with such sincerity and rapture!  And finally (for now) I think 
for german people his pronouncing isn't very good.

>the prelude to DR here blows away Solti - there is much more detail to be found
>in it.
I agree.

>
>- Mike Hurben            "Zuruck vom Ring!"
>

Conclusion: The Solti Ring isn't perfect, but it's the best recording ever made

Torsten Hippe             Zieh hin, ich kann Dich nicht halten.              
Pinnauweg 24               
1 Berlin 37
Germany
From: jzimm@ccwf.cc.utexas.edu (Joann Zimmerman)
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
Subject: Re: KDFC - a question.
Date: 8 Nov 92 00:29:49 GMT
Organization: The University of Texas at Austin, Austin TX

In article <Nov.5.20.39.08.1992.8759@blaze.rutgers.edu> zhu@blaze.rutgers.edu (Yi Zhu) writes:

>There is this station KDFC whose announcer practices a peculiar way of
>radio hosting.  Before and after a piece is played, he would give the
>usual info about the number, then a pause, then almost as an
>afterthought, adds a 4 digit number, e.g. 1865, 1934, 1786.  I found
>it quite odd, after a couple tunes, I figured out that it is the
>year in which the piece is completed.  So here is the million dollar
>question: Knowing the year(assuming you know what that number means),
>does it help enhancing your enjoyment or understanding of the music
>in any way?

>I think not, so I am not sure about the point of doing it.

Actually, it was about the only thing about the whole KDFC operation
that I did find good or useful, or whatever, but then maybe I was
showing art historian tendencies at an early age--the wish to classify
only strikes some of us; the desire to create a corpus or oeuvre is
probably not universal. But for those of us who do have this mental
itch, being given the year is a great shortcut, because we don't all
have immediate access to a Grove or similar authority. With the year,
we can begin to form an idea of what the composer was up to: was it
early in his career? Was this piece before or after X? etc. I always
found it to be a useful extra accessory in sharpening the ear. 

And as to not recognizing what the numbers were at first--you've got
to be kidding! It's quite obviously a year: "Nineteen seventy-five,"
"Fifteen sixty-four."

>Incidentally, the same DJ seems to be there all day, and possibly all
>night, with the same monotonic voice.  He'll definitely have a hard
>time making it in the New York market, just think all the commercials
>they can jam in if it weren't for the pauses and the numerics that Mr.
>DJ sprinkles throughout the day.   8-)    

They do hire robots there, golem with great staying power; some have
been there for decades, I think. And there are definitely more than
one. Robots or no, it's better than all this oh-so-friendly ooze and
chatter that some classical DJs seem to feel is required. And just
think of all the commericials they already jam in. (But then I've
already gone on record a number of times about my opinions of
commercial classical radio as a medium--the only thing worse is a
non-commercial station during one of the interminable fund drives.) If
you really want to kvetch about KDFC, make a racket about the
programming, instead. 


-- 
"Every passion borders on the chaotic, but the collector's passion
borders on the chaos of memories" 
                                                -- Walter Benjamin
 ...!cs.utexas.edu!ccwf.cc.utexas.edu!jzimm