HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: kadie@herodotus.cs.uiuc.edu (Carl M. Kadie)
Subject: Re: BofA and UW can now support discrimination against blacks and Jews
Organization: University of Illinois, Dept. of Comp. Sci., Urbana, IL
Date: Fri, 28 Aug 1992 14:54:08 GMT

daveh@frackit.UUCP (Dave Hultberg) writes:

[...]
>  Based on your statements of
>not funding groups that discriminate based on race, how do you feel
>about the United Negro College Fund?

Does the UNCF receive United Way funding?

With regard to personal support: I like the UNCF because I feel that
African Americans deserve aid to overcome racism and its legacy. I
would personally not support a United White Folks College Fund.

Another nice thing about the United Negro College Fund is that it's up
front with its restrictions. I saw a BSA booth at a local street
festive last weekend. From looking at the posters, you could not guess
that they had a religious requirement.

>  Shouldn't we also withdraw support
>for the Girl Scouts since they don't admit boys or allow men to be the
>troop leader?

(Speaking of United Way funding only.) An interesting question.

Other countries have co-ed scouts. On the other hand, this county has
exceptions in its most of antidiscrimination legislation allow aid to
single-sex schools. (I don't think race and religion get the same
exemptions.)

At the very least, United Way should support separate-but-equal. That
is, it should not fund a boy's scouting group without giving similar
funds to a girl's scouting group (and visa versa).

>  Get rid of the Jaycees, they discriminate against older men.

I'm pretty sure the Jaycees don't get general funds from the
United Way.

>  Which private organizations should the United Way or corporations
>support?

At the very least, they shouldn't funds those they violate their own
antidiscrmination policies.

>  Where does it end?  Should we just abolish the United Way?
>Then we could all just give to the charities of our choice?

That is what I do.

>  The next
>time United Way has their annual drive, take a hard look at who they
>fund.  You might be surprised at the other private organizations with
>restrictive membership criteria that they support.
[...]

The United Way charter doesn't forbid giving money to restricted
groups as long as the money is spend on unrestricted (on the basis of
race, religion, etc) programs.

- Carl
--
Carl Kadie -- kadie@cs.uiuc.edu -- University of Illinois at Urbana-Champaign
Newsgroups: rec.scouting,alt.discrimination,chi.general,alt.atheism,alt.politics.homosexuality
From: mayne@pipe.cs.fsu.edu (William Mayne)
Subject: Re: BofA and UW can now support discrimination against blacks and Jews
Reply-To: mayne@cs.fsu.edu
Organization: Florida State University Computer Science Department
Distribution: usa
Date: Mon, 31 Aug 92 21:10:48 GMT

In article <1992Aug31.201406.13456@murdoch.acc.Virginia.EDU> lfoard@Turing.ORG (Lawrence C. Foard) writes:
>I'm curious how atheism is being defined here. I'm an atheist in the sense
>that I don't believe in a "human" god. However I see the universe as being
>a "being" in a very loose sense of the word, I could honestly say that I
>believe in a higher power. However I don't believe in this power being
>outside of the universe, nor do I believe it is omnipotent nor even
>conscious (atleast not in the way we would recognize).

Self-proclaimed "real scouts" assure me that the BSA does not discriminate
on the basis of religion at all. It is only the lack of religion, i.e.
atheism, which disqualifies you. No specific religious beliefs are required.
It doesn't matter at all what you believe about God. All that matters is
that you are willing to use the word "God" for something that you believe
in. I see no reason why it would be a problem if your "power" is not
omnipotent nor even conscious. It doesn't have to have even the remotest
connection to any traditional object of worship or organized religion,
much less a normal religion like Judaism or Christianity. But you better
be willing to name it "God".

Is it sarcasm when I state with a straight face exactly what several
others have earnestly claimed even though I consider it to be ludicrous?
If so please insert a sarcasm alert.

Bill Mayne
Xref: sparky rec.scouting:2680 alt.discrimination:4041 alt.atheism:16175 alt.politics.homosexuality:5593
From: rlk@underprize.think.com (Robert Krawitz)
Newsgroups: rec.scouting,alt.discrimination,alt.atheism,alt.politics.homosexuality
Subject: Re: BofA and UW can now support discrimination against blacks and Jews
Date: 29 Aug 92 20:32:14
Organization: Thinking Machines Corporation, Cambridge Mass., USA
Distribution: usa
	<BtpFu6.Lxs@acsu.buffalo.edu>
	<1992Aug28.180542.29698@cbnewsj.cb.att.com>
	<1992Aug29.145536.3961@cbnewsl.cb.att.com>
NNTP-Posting-Host: underprize.think.com
In-reply-to: stank@cbnewsl.cb.att.com's message of 29 Aug 92 14:55:36 GMT

Whoa!

Does a mental "preference" of sexual partners of the same sex constitute
immoral "behavior"?  Why is a "preference" (as opposed to actions)
considered immoral?  What about a gay person who is controlling his or
her behavior (presumably abstaining)?
--
ames >>>>>>>>>  |	Robert Krawitz <rlk@think.com>	245 First St.
bloom-beacon >  |think!rlk				Cambridge, MA  02142
harvard >>>>>>  .	Thinking Machines Corp.		(617)234-2116

Member of the League for Programming Freedom -- write league@prep.ai.mit.edu
Xref: sparky rec.scouting:2682 alt.discrimination:4043 alt.atheism:16188 alt.politics.homosexuality:5594
From: omhoward@acsu.buffalo.edu (The God-Bitch Emperor of Snuggle Bunnies)
Newsgroups: rec.scouting,alt.discrimination,alt.atheism,alt.politics.homosexuality
Subject: Re: BofA and UW can now support discrimination against blacks and Jews
Date: 30 Aug 92 03:49:11 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: UB

In <RLK.92Aug29202355@underprize.think.com> rlk@underprize.think.com (Robert Krawitz) writes:

>first place.  So far Levi Strauss seems to be the only one that's
>showing any sort of backbone (I wish they'd just cut their damned jeans
>in a way that would fit me!).

I know what you mean I just bought about $500 worth of clothes (Levis
jeans, docker dress pants, docker loafers...) >:)  and the jeans will
be a bitch to break no...  But It's worth it (and they look good
too)..  Speaking of levi's I work in a department store any you should
see all of our displays in the clothing departments... :)  Yep,
business is a boomin too..

Have A Day
-Eftsne (Olu)
*Vox Domini*

******** ___________________________  All expressed opinions are mine unless
 * bi * | omhoward@acsu.buffalo.edu |  otherwise noted..  (UB wouldn't have
  ****  | V117MG7B@acsu.buffalo.edu |   any opinions (besides popular ones)
   **    ---------------------------     anyway..)
Smurf these codes:
         *S8/3 b g+(+) l+(-) y/ z(-) n+ o+(+) x(+) a+ u(+) v(+) j+(+)*
                     *B0 f w cd g++! k(+) s- h- r p*
Good quote follows:
   "I believe that homophobia is equivalent to racism.  Prejudicial violence
     towards gays and lesbians is as irrational as hostility towards African
     Americans.  A bigot is a bigot."     		-L.S. Welch 
Xref: sparky rec.scouting:2710 alt.discrimination:4052 chi.general:906 alt.atheism:16245 alt.politics.homosexuality:5606
From: kadie@dante.cs.uiuc.edu (Carl M. Kadie)
Newsgroups: rec.scouting,soc.motss
Subject: [UPI] "Queer Nation Milwaukee to boycott United Way"
Date: 25 Aug 92 19:29:09 GMT
Organization: University of Illinois, Dept. of Comp. Sci., Urbana, IL

Copyright 1992 by UPI. Reposted with permission from the ClariNet
Electronic Newspaper newsgroup clari.local.wisconsin. For more info on
ClariNet, write to info@clarinet.com or phone 1-800-USE-NETS.

	MILWAUKEE (UPI) -- Queer Nation Milwaukee Tuesday formed a Queer
Scouts working group to boycott the United Way -- the largest funder of
the Boy Scouts of America.
	A statement released by the Milwaukee homosexual-rights group said
its working group joins the growing national boycott of United Way
because the Boy Scouts ban homosexuals from its membership and
leadership.
	``We believe that the Boy Scouts' policy of banning Queer children is
nothing short of child abuse and that this practice should not be funded
by an agency that purports to care about and support all children,'' the
statement said.
	Queer Scouts urged all Milwaukee residents not to give money to the
city's United Way chapter until it stops funding the Boy Scouts or
forces the Boy Scouts to change its policy.
	The group also urged residents not to support any organizations that
discriminate on the basis of sexual orientation.
	Milwaukee's United Way allocated $760,000 to the Boy Scouts last
year.
	Queer Scouts will present its demands to United Way officials during
a meeting later this week, the statement said.
--
Carl Kadie -- kadie@cs.uiuc.edu -- University of Illinois at Urbana-Champaign
Newsgroups: rec.scouting
From: wjh0265@tamsun.tamu.edu (William Hobson)
Subject: Re: What's the use in having this group???
Organization: Texas A&M University, College Station
Date: Thu, 27 Aug 1992 12:51:45 GMT

Funny that Carl Kadie would be the first to reply to my post - He's #1 on my
KILL file!!!
 
Newsgroups: rec.scouting,alt.discrimination
From: philipla@microsoft.com (Phil Lafornara)
Subject: Re: BofA and UW can now support discrimination against blacks and Jews
Date: 24 Aug 92 17:45:08 GMT
Organization: Microsoft Corporation

In article <4v_nl3f.strnlght@netcom.com> strnlght@netcom.com (David Sternlight) writes:
>
>Carl Kadie asks for a policy that would include the Boy Scouts but
>exclude the KKK youth organization from Bank of America grants.
>This is unnecessary, since the Bank of America is a private organization
>and may make grants, within its policy guidelines, to whomever it
>likes. Any such guidelines say who is excluded, but not who
>WILL receive grants, and are there simply to indicate who "need not
>apply." Further, they may be changed at will, as we have seen.
>
>Thus the grant-making body of the Bank may refuse to give to the KKK
>and need not say why. It's still a free country.

     However, as we have seen, this is not the case.  If the Bank
refuses to give to a certain discriminatory group, they are
threatened with boycott.  How can this be reconciled with your
statement above?

					-Phil


-- 
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
Phil Lafornara         				1 Microsoft Way         
philipla@microsoft.com				Redmond, WA 98052-6399 
Note:  Microsoft doesn't even _know_ that these are my opinions. So there.
Xref: sparky rec.scouting:2599 alt.politics.homosexuality:5538
From: charlie@isis.mit.edu (Charlie Fulton)
Newsgroups: rec.scouting,alt.politics.homosexuality
Subject: Re: BofA and UW can now support discrimination against blacks
     and Jews
Date: 26 Aug 92 19:47:08 GMT
     <5862@transfer.stratus.com> <1992Aug24.214806.819@rtsg.mot.com>
Organization: Ctr for Advanced Rsrch in Oppressive Binarisms
X-Useragent: Nuntius v1.1

In article <1992Aug24.174130.17548@spdc.ti.com> Jeff Achenbach,
achenbac@epcot.spdc.ti.com writes:
>   In anticipation of an outcry of "homophobe" or some such nonsense,
let me
>be blunt. I consider homosexuality a behavioral aberration, somewhat on
the 
>order of picking one's nose and eating it. It doesn't directly affect
me, but
>neither do I wish to be associated with it. I have better things to do
than 
>worry about someone else's deviant behavior. 
>
>Jeff Achenbach
>achenbac@epcot.spdc.ti.com  

I eat snot for dinner every night.  If you have some kind of problem with
that, hows about I cleave your fucking head open with a hammer?

Ooops, looks like I just broke the law.  I humbly retract my suggestion.

charlie
Newsgroups: rec.scouting,alt.discrimination
From: johnhall@microsoft.com (John Hall)
Subject: Re: BofA and UW can now support discrimination against blacks and Jews
Date: 25 Aug 92 00:21:52 GMT
Organization: Microsoft Corporation

In article arromdee@jyusenkyou.cs.jhu.edu (Ken Arromdee) writes:
| That WASN'T ME!!!

Sorry.  I got confused with the attributions.

| In article johnhall@microsoft.com (John Hall) writes:
| >In general, I have no opposition to a group of A's creating an
| >organization by and for A's.
| 
| So it's equally OK, as far as you're concerned, if A's are "non-Jews",
| "whites", or "theists"?  You have no trouble creating an organization by and
| for whites, as long as they don't write "we hate blacks" in their charter?
| Can I start a white-only grocery store, as long as I don't preach hatred
| about blacks?  What about white-only bus seats?  [Hint: You cannot reply
| "it is impossible to start a white-only grocery store without motives that
| include hatred", since I will then reply similarly about theistic scouting
| organizations....]

I thought I indicated that, given the history of racially exclusive
groups becoming race hate groups, I was sanguine about discouraging
them as a matter of public policy.

White only bus seats is instructive -- that only happened where the
buses were goverment owned or the goverment mandated the policy.
See the interesting and long lived resistance of private street
car companies to Jim Crow laws in the old south.  Nevertheless,
I see value in limiting even a private organization from doing
something like this on the basis of race -- something that I
do not apply to theistic or sexual orientation organizations.
I find the antisocial consequences of wide spread private
discrimination sufficient to overcome a near religious belief
in the Freedom of Association.  I don't find the antisocial
effects of the latter, if any, to be of the same magnitude.

-- 
-------------------------
My comments are my own.  They are independent and unrelated to the
views of my company , relatives or elected representatives.

Newsgroups: rec.scouting,alt.politics.homosexuality
From: palane@iastate.edu (Paul A. Lane)
Subject: Re: BofA and UW can now support discrimination against blacks and Jews
Organization: Iowa State University, Ames IA
Date: Mon, 24 Aug 1992 03:20:15 GMT

In <1992Aug23.232949.7343@news2.cis.umn.edu> elliott@a8.ima.umn.edu (Frank Elliott) writes:

>I support honesty in advertising.  Why not have the BSA change its name to
>"the Buchannon Youth" so that the name can fit the policy?

Sorry. I find Pat Buchannon to be an angry, unpleasant man. I didn't get the
same feeling from my years in the scouts. Of couse, if they start building
fences at the southern border, I'll have to reconsider my position.

>How about that Republican convention?  Isn't it a shame when cousins marry?

Just all in the family.

Paul


Newsgroups: rec.scouting
Newsgroups: rec.scouting,alt.discrimination,chi.general,alt.atheism,alt.politics.homosexuality
Subject: Re: BofA and UW can now support discrimination against blacks and Jews
From: jkusters@zeus.calpoly.edu (Chrome Jester)
Date: Wed, 26 Aug 1992 16:54:34 GMT
Organization: California Polytechnic State University, San Luis Obispo

achenbac@epcot.spdc.ti.com (Jeff Achenbach) divulges:
->
->Sexual orientation is important to many people, right or wrong. Parents have 
->the right/ obligation to control what images/behavior their children are taught
->to believe is acceptable. If it is not displayed it is not a model for
->anything. A gay person can be a wonderful influence in many ways, not because
->or in spite of being gay, but simply because they may be a good person.
->However, that one "flaw" will be enough to make many folks not want him/her 
->being a role model for their children. I'm not saying it's right, fair, or 
->anything else, just reality. I'm defending the right of parents to determine 
->what is best for their children. I have not, by the way, fathered any, nor do
->I ever intend to. 

Jeff, the same can be said about any class of people.  Does this give the
BSA permission now to exclude black people, jewish people, and people who
wear black on their fingernails?  I mean, if I was a parent, and I didn'
think it was right for MY child to associate with all of those disgusting
japanese freaks (wording used for sarcastic emphasis only, and not
indicative of my actual feelings!), is it my "right" to expect BSA to
exclude people of Japanese descent, for the "best of my children"?  Do you
see just how specious and irrelevant this argument is?

JOhn.
-- 
/-John A Kusters, jr.--------------------------------------------------- ______
| jkusters@ares.calpoly.edu   b0- f- w g- s-- r p++                      \    /
Silence keeps us all in darkness, We can't change things overnight;       \  /
But we can shed a little light, Be Political not Polite! -Romanovsky & Phillips
Newsgroups: rec.scouting,alt.discrimination,chi.general,alt.atheism,alt.politics.homosexuality
From: philipla@microsoft.com (Phil Lafornara)
Subject: Re: BofA and UW can now support discrimination against blacks and Jews
Date: 03 Sep 92 18:10:01 GMT
Organization: Microsoft Corporation
Keywords: significant words from a document used as an index to content

In article <1992Aug28.094716.13262@mintaka.lcs.mit.edu> mycroft@hal.gnu.ai.mit.edu (Charles Hannum) writes:
>
>If you found out that, in the privacy of my home, I bite off the heads
>of chickens, would you not change your opinion of me?
>

     Only if I was a chicken.  Otherwise, it doesn't really
seem like my business.

					-Phil


-- 
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
Phil Lafornara         				1 Microsoft Way         
philipla@microsoft.com				Redmond, WA 98052-6399 
Note:  Microsoft doesn't even _know_ that these are my opinions. So there.
Newsgroups: rec.scouting
From: stolz@fnboot.fnal.gov
Subject: Re: Okay, rec.scouting split - I'll help
Organization: P.S.C.
Date: Fri, 4 Sep 1992 15:53:17 GMT
X-Posted-From: fnboot.fnal.gov
X-Posted-Through: sol.ctr.columbia.edu

In article <jce.715529413@oak.cs.scarolina.edu>, jce@cs.scarolina.edu (James C. Evans) writes:
> philipla@microsoft.com (Phil Lafornara) writes:
> 
>>In article <1992Sep1.071516.12618@alf.uib.no> buboo@alf.uib.no (Ove Ruben R Olsen) writes:
>>>[stuff that I felt like commenting on deleted for the sake of brevity]
>>>
>>>Good idea, but I would rather prefer:
>>>    rec.scouting.policy.bsa	- BSA, and BSA only.
>>>    rec.scouting.policy.misc	- Others. Minimal BSA stuff.
>>>    rec.scouting.wisdom		- Non political.
> 
> I have opposed splitting this newsgroup in the past because many of the
> postings requesting a split have amounted to an attempt to suppress
> free speech.  Danny Schwender (I hope I got the spelling right)
> who founded this newsgroup and Carl Kadie, who has been an active
> poster re policy, have both suggested a simple split
> of the group into rec.scouting.policy and rec.scouting.wisdom.
> Because of the neutrality of this approach, 
> I would support that two-way split, but I'd like to suggest
> rec.scouting.methods rather than ".wisdom," although "methods"
> is still not a perfect word.  (Nor are "function" and "activities.")
> 
> Why not do the two-way split, and if and when there is enough non-BSA traffic
> on .policy, create a BSA-specific board? 
> 
> Chris Evans
> jce@ocean.geol.scarolina.edu

I am for the 2-way split also.  Either .methods or .wisdom is fine with me.
I have never done a RFD before, and don't have lots of time, but rec.scouting
is important enough to me to offer to do or help with them.   Can someone, 
(Danny?, Carl?, another more experienced soul?) tell me what needs to be done?

My current understanding is: 1) a charter needs to be done, 2) it needs to 
be posted somewhere, 3) a call for votes needs to be done, 4) acknowledgements
need to be sent, 5) the votes need to be tabulated, 6) the total needs to be
compared to some net standard, and 7) the split needs to be announced or
rejected.   

I'm likely to read both groups, so I guess I'm willing to do either or both 
RFDs. 
Mike S.
***********************************************************************
*  BITNET: STOLZ@FNAL           INTERNET: STOLZ@FNBOOT.FNAL.GOV
*  Phone:  708-840-8060         
*  MS:     120                  Wilson Hall 8 East
*  FermiLab,  P.O. Box 500,  Batavia, IL  60510
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Xref: sparky rec.scouting:2756 alt.discrimination:4081 chi.general:931 alt.atheism:16364 alt.politics.homosexuality:5631
From: omhoward@acsu.buffalo.edu (The God-Bitch Emperor of Snuggle Bunnies)
Newsgroups: rec.scouting,alt.discrimination,chi.general,alt.atheism,alt.politics.homosexuality
Subject: Re: BofA and UW can now support discrimination against blacks and Jews
Date: 2 Sep 92 14:50:36 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: UB

In <hill.715369256@galena12> hill@rtsg.mot.com (Karen Hill) writes:

>So what we have here, is that anything is ok (moral, whatever) as long as
>someone believes it is and prescribes to that kind of behavior or belief?

     Not necessarily, what we do have here is that anything is ok as
long as 1) they feel it is ok. and 2) I hurts no one else.  2 is very
important as a matter of fact more important than 1.  (And before it
comes up have a pass made at you by the same sex hurts no more than
one made by the opposite sex (unless your parents raised you a bigot
ten you might be personally disturbed but thats your problem).)  Things
done between consenting people hurts no one else and therefore should
be left alone.

>So that must mean that there are no longer any absolutes. Nothing is
>absolutely right and nothing is absolutely wrong because someone,
>somewhere believes it is ok.  

     Right & wrong, you may believe right and wrong as you choose and
live by that as long as you don't force it on someone else.  However
if they choose also to live like that thats fine.

>What would happen to society under this premise?

     It probably be a much nicer place.

>Ok...say you have a scout troop where X ( where X is a significant portion of
>the troop) number of scouts and their parents do not prescribe to 
>homosexual behavior. Say also that the scout leader is gay. Who should
>leave...all those "homophobe" scouts and their families or the
>gay scout leader? Who chooses who's rights are more important here? If
>either side leaves, discrimination can be claimed.

     All the people in troop X could find another troop.  The scout
leader cannot under present rules.  Also say there is a troop Y and
alot of the parents (and the scout leaders) are homophobes and there
are a couple of gay scouts..  What then?  Under present rules those
kids would also be expelled.  BTW if someone chooses to leave you
really cannot claim discrimination, after all you left cause you
wanted to, if you are forced to leave that is a different story
altogether.

Have A Day
-Eftsne (Olu)
*Vox Domini*

******** ___________________________  All expressed opinions are mine unless
 * bi * | omhoward@acsu.buffalo.edu |  otherwise noted..  (UB wouldn't have
  ****  | V117MG7B@acsu.buffalo.edu |   any opinions (besides popular ones)
   **    ---------------------------     anyway..)
Smurf these codes:
         *S8/3 b g+(+) l+(-) y/ z(-) n+ o+(+) x(+) a+ u(+) v(+) j+(+)*
                     *B0 f w cd g++! k(+) s- h- r p*
Good quote follows:
   "I believe that homophobia is equivalent to racism.  Prejudicial violence
     towards gays and lesbians is as irrational as hostility towards African
     Americans.  A bigot is a bigot."     		-L.S. Welch 
Newsgroups: rec.scouting