From: aschaffe@holodeck.csd.sgi.com (Allan Schaffer)
Newsgroups: alt.politics.bush
Subject: Re: GEORGE BUSH, STOP THE RED-BAITING
Date: 9 Oct 92 09:28:59 GMT
Organization: Silicon Graphics, Inc., Mountain View, CA
NNTP-Posting-Host: holodeck.csd.sgi.com

shou1@cicero.spc.uchicago.edu (Roger Shouse) said..
>bowler@athena.mit.edu (Bert Smith) writes:
>>
>>                GEORGE BUSH, STOP THE RED-BAITING
>>
>> *    Bush's latest attack on Bill Clinton for a trip he took 23 years
>> ago is a pathetic attempt to divert the American people from the
>> worst economic record in 50 years.  It is a sign of pure
>> desperation.
>
>Quite frankly, a lot of people (not just crazed right wing Republicans) 
>don't think that the economy is really all that bad in every way.  Low
>interest rates make home buying more affordable, low inflation softens
>the blow of other economic problems, etc.  

If you'd like to debate whether the "economy is really all that bad",
I would love to.  In fact I relish the thought.  For now, though, I'll 
stick to the issue at hand.

>> *    Because the Republicans have such a miserable economic record,
>> they've resorted to lobbing hand grenade after hand grenade, hoping
>> that one will explode.  Even as he was attacking Clinton, Bush told
>> Larry King, "I don't have the facts."
>
>To say that the Republicans use "hand grenades" concedes that they have
>good ammunition.  Much better than that expressed by this cheap attempt
>to take a quote out of context.

This quote, in fact, is not out of context:

        KING: What do you make of the Clinton Moscow trip thing?
        Do you think that--
        BUSH: Moscow?
        KING: He says it was just a student trip.
        BUSH: Larry, I don't want to tell you what I really think
        'cause I don't have the facts. I don't have the facts. But
        to go to Moscow 1 year after Russia crushed Czechoslovakia,
        not remember who you saw--I think, I really think the answer
        is level with the American people.

With regards to "good ammunition":

Marlin Fitzwater today said, "We don't know anything about the Moscow 
trip -- we don't really know why he went or what he was doing."

So.  The President doesn't know the facts; Fitzwater says they "don't
know anything", even Dornan admits he has no evidence and was "speculating".

>Speculation is not necessarily a bad thing.  I don't know what Clinton
>did or who he met with in Moscow, and at this point I don't claim that
>he did anything wrong.  I would like him to address this point and 
>there's nothing wrong with raising the issue, especially since I've
>heard that the Soviets often attempted to use visiting Oxford students
>for political purposes.  

He has addressed the issue.  He said that he went to the Soviet Union,
as a tourist, during the winter holiday while he was a student at Oxford. 
He said that he did not meet with the soviet government or KGB.  

What more would you like him to "address" on this point?

>Travel to
>the USSR was unusual for Americans in 1969.  Ross Perot couldn't get
>permission from the Soviet government to travel there, but I'll bet 
>they loved to get young, anti-war students to go there.

Travel to the USSR for students studying overseas, *in Europe*, was 
very common.  In Clinton's class alone, 8 of 24 took part of their 
vacation in Moscow.  

Ross Perot was denied permission to -land his plane- in moscow.  He
could easily have entered Russia with a tourist visa  (he never applied).

>> *    Clinton's travels took him to Denmark, Norway, Sweden, Finland,
>> Russia, and Prague, Czechoslovakia before returning to England.
>> Clinton traveled Europe as a tourist -- not to attend any meeting or
>> demonstration.  While in Norway, he visited a friend from Hot Springs
>> who was attending Oslo University.  He met Father McSorley
>> coincidentally at the Oslo train station, they traveled to the
>> University where Clinton was introduced to McSorley's friends, and
>> then Clinton went to visit his friend.
>  
>> *    Clinton spent Christmas in Finland with the family of a college
>> friend before heading to Moscow where he spent five or six days
>> touring.
>
>How nice for him!

You said, "he just needs to be up front about this."  The above describes,
in some detail, what occured during the trip.  In essense, the statement
is being "up front" about it.

>Seriously, I'd like to know if Clinton participated in anti-war 
>demonstrations overseas.  I'd find it hard to distinguish such events from
>"anti-American demonstrations."

Yes, he participated in peace demonstrations in London, and helped to 
organize a "teach-in".

>One other note of interest.  Do you get the feeling from reading the 
>original post that whoever wrote it was _extremely outraged_!!!???
>I love that attitude.  It suggests that Bush's supporters have really
>hit a soft sensitive spot!  Why can't the Dems just talk about it
>without the obnoxious pretense?

I'd bet that most of them are outraged by the way this issue was
presented.  Every republican who has raised this issue has admitted
that they have _no_ facts, _no_ basis for their "speculations", yet
they promote this trip to Russia in an attempt to paint Clinton as
some sort of "Manchurian Candidate."  

I find it to be an extremely repulsive tactic, but I'd rather expose
people to the facts than get riled up.

Allan
-- 
Allan Schaffer   x2160                    "Things have been tough, but 
aschaffe@holodeck.csd.sgi.com              they haven't been that tough."
aschaffe@netcom.com                                   - George Bush   10/4/92
For a free copy of Bill Clinton's economic recovery plan, call (501) 372-1992
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