HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: justice@panix.com (Michael Justice)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Little-known membership benefits of the NRA
Date: 6 Nov 92 14:24:48 GMT
Organization: PANIX Public Access Unix & Internet, NYC


One of my coworkers "discovered" that I am a NRA member, and told me this:

When he first immigrated to the U.S., he bought a cheap used car, which
happened to have a NRA membership sticker on the back window.  Being lazy,
he never bothered to remove it.  Then, one fine day, a cop nailed him for
speeding, saw the NRA sticker, said "Oh, you're in the NRA?" and let him
off the hook.

Needless to say, he never removed the sticker . . . and continued to get
let off the hook.

We'd better not let this get out, though, since the NRA would probably
get lots of new members from it. . . . :-)

                        -- Michael.
--
Michael A. Justice, currently at:  justice@panix.com
"I'm slowly going stark, raving mad." -- Marty Mouse
From: jim.wray@cutting.hou.tx.us (Jim Wray)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: New Books on Sale
Date: 10 Nov 92 15:06:16 GMT
Organization: The Cutting Edge - Houston, TX - 713-466-1525

Henry E. Schaffer writes

HES>  This is the time of year that there are a lot of good firearms
HES>books on sale.  Here are two sales of books by their publishers -

....deletion...

HES>  A smaller discount is available for books from Wolfe Publishing
HES>Co., but still it's better than nothing.  Wolfe has a lot of fine
HES>books which are seldom on-sale.  Books include

HES>Pet Loads (2 vol, including supplements 1-12) 29.50
HES>Propellant Profiles 16.95
HES>Small Arms Design (by Townsend Whelen) Vols I and II 49.50 each
HES>and many others

If there is enough interest to generate a large enough order from the
denizens of this net, I'd be happy to put in the order and remail the
books from my home location. I have an FFL and get most of Wolfe's fine
offerings at about 40% off. About 4 months ago I bought myself the
"Small Arms design" pair and a few other of their classic reprints...
first quality and numbered editions to boot.

What's in it for me, you ask. Given a large enough order, I would get a couple
of books for myself at your expense, leaving you with a discount of maybe 35%
or so off list...I wouldn't know for sure until the order was put together but
we could work it all out for approval before any money changed hands.

Let me know of your interest.
---
 . OLX 2.2 . If you had been driving an F16, you'd be home by now!
From: pmod@pfbs.philips.se (Par-Mikael Odsater)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: Well? Reccomendations for a SIG fan.
Date: 13 Nov 92 15:27:02 GMT
Organization: Digital Equipment BCFI AB, Sweden


reb@amc.com (Bob Brunjes) writes:
: In article <799@idanm.pfbs.philips.se> pmod@pfbs.philips.se (Par-Mikael Odsater) writes:
: #The SIG P210 is the BEST (I mean THE best) gun in class to use for target
: 
: I guess it would depend on what the other guns in the class were, and
: what the nature of the competition was.  For metallic silhouette targets,
: for instance, the SIG would be inappropriate.  For Olympic-style paper
: punching, I would think the SIG would be insufficient.
: 
: Could you fill us in on the class constraints and the competing guns?
: 
I agree with you about the silhouette targets, but not with the Olympic-style.
You are NOT allowed to use a SIG P210 in the "Olympic-style paper punching" as
you call it.
We compare the SIG P210 with guns such as Beretta 92, Colt 1911, H&K P9S,
Tanfoglio TA90, other SIG P22X models and so on. In Sweden we shoot at a
number of different targets. We have two different types of shooting events
that we practice. The first is the "olympic-style of paper punching" and the
other is a type the only exsists in Sweden, Norway and Denmark, it's called
feeldshooting (freeley translated). Wh shoot at paper targets in defferent 
shapes and size. The targets are shown at different places and in different
timeframes. For example.

Four targets.
Two targetgroups, A and B (two targets on the same stick)
A in shown in 4 seconds then B in 5 seconds then A in 3 seconds.

A: ---4---           ---3--
B:        ----5-----

The distance between the shooter and the targets can be somewere between
15 to 85 meters. There are roules that we have to follow.

Hope you've got it.

/P-M

PS. We use the SIG P210 in mainly .30 Luger but also in 9mm.

--
 Par-Mikael (P-M) Odsater           | Digital Equipment BCFI AB
                                    | Box 904
 pmod@pfbs.philips.se               | S-175 29 Jarfalla, Sweden 
 ..!mcsun!seunet!dakotaS!pmod@pfbs  | Phone: +46 8 7594928, Fax: +46 8 7398676
From: smpod@ariel.lerc.nasa.gov (Stefan)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: Highpower Rifle match, North CA, Nov 14
Date: 6 Nov 92 21:44:33 GMT
Organization: who knows

In article <1992Nov6.032855.5953@aim.com>, breck@tempest.aim.com (Breck Beatie) writes...
#The match will be held at the Sacramento Valley Shooting Center.  Call Peggie
#Chapman at 916-925-3759 for further information.  The cost is $20.00 to shoot
#only one day or $25.00 to shoot both days.  For Juniors the cost is $5.00 per
#day.

$25!!!!  You guys got it cheap!>
From: n9020351@henson.cc.wwu.edu (James Douglas Del-Vecchio)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: .32-20 winchester questions
Date: 13 Nov 92 04:11:29 GMT
Organization: Western Washington University

reb@amc.com (Bob Brunjes) writes:

#Actually, I've seen new .32-20 brass around in sizeable quantities
#at gun shows; I was somewhat surprised.  I'd try Midway, and I think
#I saw .32-20 cases at our local wonderful-gun-store-out-in-the-boonies
#Kesselring's.  Kesselring's takes credit-card orders, is in beautiful
#downtown (8)) Alger, Washington, (206) 724-3113.  If they've got it,
#they've got (literally) _buckets_ of it, along with _lots_ of other
#less-common brass.

	Bob is right, in fact, Kesselrings is the best gun store in 
_the world_.  I am pleased to have the fortune of living within a 
20 min drive of this fine establishment.  They have _everything_.  
_Buckets_ of everything.  Any kind of weird brass you can think of
(38-40, 44-40, & everything from .22 jet to .45 WM, .444 Marlin,
.45-70, and .416 Rem.) they have bins full like a grocery bulk food 
section, open to be bought
by the scoop.    Great prices too.  I bought some used TZZs (isreali)
.45 brass for 4 cents per.  Used .38 Spl for about 3 cents.  New Rem
or Win .38 super for 10 cents, everything can be had there, and for less 
than any other store around.   It costs 18 bucks for 500 rds for my
fave 225 gr TC lance bullets.   They have more things that I can 
think of right now.  It's a dream come true though.   First time we went
Susan said I looked like a crow in there, attracted to all the shiny things. 
She won't let me go without my bib.    8^)

It's a wonderful gun store.   They do everything they can to make you
feel like a kid in a candy store.

...If I could only work in a place like that.

Jim Del Vecchio
From: scylax!tiglath@uunet.UU.NET
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: L.A. Riots vs. Stainless Sig 230
Date: 14 Nov 92 02:57:51 GMT
Organization: ScylaxCorp


lairdb@crash.cts.com  writes:


##A Glock 21 (45 ACP) would be my choice for the next L.A riot.
##To face multiple assailants a low recoil high capacity
##gun may be even better.  (9mm. Glock 17, SIG 228?).  

#No facts, just some food for thought.  Some personal-protection people
#I was talking to recently were discussing high-cap vs. low-cap., and
#the consensus seemed to be that due to *societal* changes in the last
#10 years or so, it was time for the "suppressive fire" concept to
#make its way into the civilian lexicon.  Many long faces and regretful
#head-shaking at the state of affairs, but little disagreement.

Can you re-phrase that?


##I agree that showing a gun hoping to deter is asking for trouble.  Only
##top experts can afford to do that.  I tend to think that you do not 
##pull a gun out till you are convinced you need to use it.  It's tough,
##but you need to commit yourself mentally for that occasion if you are 
##going to be carrying guns.  Your must establish your own rules of 
##engagement and stick to them. 

#I think it's not unreasonable to *hope* to deter.  Every time I go
#rock climbing, I *hope* my shoes will hold and my skill will be
#sufficient.  Nevertheless, I am both equipped and mentally prepared 
#to take a fall.  

All analogies limp a little, but with this one I do not see the 
connection.


#I agree with you that there should be *no* doubt 
#in your mind by the time you draw that you are prepared to fire, 
#but I'm not sure you should write your rules to say that "I will not 
#draw unless I intend to draw-and-fire."


The British police do exactly that.  They put their hand on their
holstered gun and shout "I am an armed police officer" followed by 
commands.  The weapon remains holstered until there is the need to fire.

Their view is that brandishing a gun is of little use, unless you are
under attack.  I agree.

The rule is not absolute, they may draw to fire and then decide not
to and hold the perps at gun point.  An officer can also decide to 
draw the gun if he has no cover or feels unsafe.  

I feel, though, they might change their tactic if british criminals 
were as well armed as the american ones.

Again, he who waves a gun amidst possibly armed rioters hoping to deter
needs his head examined, or is tired of living.
From: scylax!tiglath@uunet.UU.NET
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: L.A. Riots vs. Stainless Sig 230
Date: 12 Nov 92 14:57:05 GMT
Organization: ScylaxCorp

#Would the stainless Sig 230 make a good personal defense weapon
#in the next L.A. riot?  During the last riot I had the passenger
#window broken out of my car by a mob and barely escaped without
#being dragged away and beaten up.

#On the other hand there was one fellow who was shot because he
#showed a weapon while in his car to some assailants.  My sense
#is that if you shot it you better use it.

I have a blue SIG P230 and I really like it, I hear the stainless
model shoots even better.  The .380 SIG P230 wouldn't be
my gun of choice if I was expecting trouble.  I thing of the 230 as a
good gun to have when you do not have a "gun".  It beats screaming
for help, although it is fancy looking it is a bit of a mouse gun.

A Glock 21 (45 ACP) would be my choice for the next L.A riot.
To face multiple assailants a low recoil high capacity
gun may be even better.  (9mm. Glock 17, SIG 228?).  

I agree that showing a gun hoping to deter is asking for trouble.  Only
top experts can afford to do that.  I tend to think that you do not 
pull a gun out till you are convinced you need to use it.  It's tough,
but you need to commit yourself mentally for that occasion if you are 
going to be carrying guns.  Your must establish your own rules of 
engagement and stick to them.
From: glock@chip.cba.ufl.edu (Joe Granto)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: Glock (& lock)
Date: 9 Nov 92 18:51:43 GMT
Article-I.D.: bigguy.9211091629.AA09320
Organization: College of Business, University of Florida

In article <MeyJZeG00iUyQ2bQcx@andrew.cmu.edu> se08+@andrew.cmu.edu (Seth Adam Eliot) writes:

#Also, regarding Glock quality.  The guy at the range said that the gun
#had been "abused."  This was as explanation for why the slide wouldn't
#stay open after the last shot, and would sometimes slam shut without the
#release lever being pushed.  Any experiences out there with excessive
#wear and tear?


I sincerely doubt it is a problem with the gun; it is MOST LIKELY that the 
clips are worn.  The older Glock magazine had a problem with wearing out, 
and would not lock back the slide.  I would guess that it is time to buy new 
magazines.  I have a Glock 20 and used to have a 17, and NEVER had a problem 
with either.  They are buy far the MOST reliable, EASIEST to shoot pistols I 
have ever seen.






Joe

****************************************************************
**                 GLOCK@chip.cba.ufl.edu                     **
**                                                            **
**     "When the going gets tough, the tough get a GLOCK."    **
****************************************************************
From: hes@unity.ncsu.edu (Henry E. Schaffer)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: Teflon-based lubes for sizing?
Date: 9 Nov 92 03:04:22 GMT
Organization: North Carolina State University

In article <1dk5giINN541@master.cs.rose-hulman.edu> rayma@nextwork.rose-hulman.edu (Michael A. Ray) writes:
#Is there a reason that Teflon-based lubricants (ie - Triflow) aren't  
#used for case sizing?  It seems that since it's an excellent  
#lubricant and is dry (after the propellent evaporates) that it would  
#be ideal for such a purpose.  Plus you wouldn't have to wipe them off  
                                    ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
#when done since it's not gummy like most.  It would also seem that  
#since it's a dry lubricant that there wouldn't be a problem with  
#powder contamination.

  One of the functions of the case when the round is fired is to
expand to the chamber walls and to "hold on" so the backwards force
on the bolt is decreased (somehat.)  If lube is left on the case, 
then this friction is decreased and more force than anticipated in the
design of the firearm is exerted on the bolt - which can stretch/break 
things.

  Not only is it necessary to remove the case lube, but you want a
case lube which can be rather easily removed.  A micro-particle Teflon
might be bad in that respect.
# ...

--henry schaffer  n c state univ

P.S. Another function of the case is to seal off the chamber space, so
that gas can't leak from the bore (where it is at high pressure -
perhaps over 50,000 psi) back to the bolt and the shooter.
From: reb@amc.com (Bob Brunjes)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: Unique questions
Date: 7 Nov 92 16:05:24 GMT
Organization: Applied Microsystems, Redmond, WA

In article <9211041654.AA00221@rutgers.edu> amirza@bronze.ucs.indiana.edu (Anmar Caves) writes:
#
#I was reloading some .357 last night.  From the Speer manual I got a
#load for a 158gr JHP that looked interesting.
#7.7 gr Unique up to 8.2 gr for maximum.
#My can of Unique is only about 8 months old, and has been stored in a
#cool dry location in the original container, with the top on, there's
#about half a can left.  I use a Lee autodisk measure, and their
#conversion tables.  Their tables say that .88cc will equal 8.1gr (I
#could be wrong on this, this is from memory, but my question will
#still be valid).  Not wanting to start out with a maximum load I
#figured I'd drop down to .82cc.  That listed at being 7.7 gr.  So, I
#set the .82cc disk in the measure, loaded the hopper to the top with
#Unique, and threw a few to settle the powder.  Then I threw one and
#weighed it.  It came out about 6.5 gr!  Thinking there might have been
#an error, I threw a few more and measured them.  They all came out
#about 6.5 gr +- .05gr.  So I moved the measure disk up to .88 cc.
#This brought the weight up to 7.1 gr.  I then moved it up to .95cc.
#This brought the weight up to 7.7 gr. which I ended up loading.
#
#Anyone have any idea why the disparity between what the data said it
#should weigh, and what I got?
#
If I were to state a rule of thumb, it would be: "never, ever, ever
trust the value of the charge thrown by a measure, although you _may_ 
be able to trust its consistency.  Always, always, always (after a 
fingerprint/dust wipe and zero check) believe your scales".

If you had said the .88cc disk produced 8.1 grains weighed, _then_
I would be surprised.

I used to believe powder measures, until I created some 7.62 Luger
cases you could prime with your thumb 8(.  Believe your scales.

Bob Brunjes		Applied Microsystems Corp
			Redmond, WA
			reb@amc.com
From: rigg@ssdt-tempe.sps.mot.com (Dana Rigg)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: Fix for heavy trigger on PPK/S
Date: 12 Nov 92 14:56:09 GMT

-> I just found a fix for my PPK/S's heavy double action trigger pull.
-> Elmore's Guns & Jewelry ((317) 882-8758 Greenwood IN) sells a "spring
-> kit" for the PPK/S that significantly improves the trigger.  The  kit is
-> around $12 and they had some in stock.

I'm not familiar with the PPK or the spring kit mentioned, but I have
a general word of advice.  Save the old springs.  If you replace the
springs that make the gun go bang with weaker ones that lighten the
double action trigger pull, the new springs may not be strong enough to
continue making the gun go bang.  You may start having light primer
strikes.

This is a common problem with small, DA guns.  I once had a smith
tell me that he refused to replace the springs in S&W model 60's
(snub-nosed, 5 shot revolvers) for this reason.

Dana Rigg
Chandler, AZ.
rigg@ssdt-tempe.sps.mot.com
From: efk00@cd.amdahl.com (Eddie Kieger)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: Colt Sporter mags
Date: 12 Nov 92 14:55:59 GMT
Organization: Amdahl Corporation, Sunnyvale CA


Believe it or not, the military Surplus mags are a pretty good 
deal ($6-$8 depending on source), and work pretty well.
From: justice@panix.com (Michael Justice)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Trouble reloading "USA" .357 and .38 brass
Date: 6 Nov 92 14:24:50 GMT
Organization: PANIX Public Access Unix & Internet, NYC

I am having trouble reloading "USA" .38 brass and .357 nickeled brass.
The cases are "new" (once-fired by me), my press is a Dillon 550B, and
I am using Lee dies with carbide sizer.  I've reloaded some of each,
using swaged pure lead 148gr HBWC in the .38 (60-ish), and 125gr JHP
(Remington, according to the supplier) in the .357 (200-ish).  (*Whew*)

The trouble is that the brass does not seem to want to be "worked".
Both types of cases are difficult to resize, and damn near impossible
to expand.  The .38 brass is worse;  on one occasion, I had to kick
the Dillon's handle[*] to get the brass off the expander bell.  Neither
type of case bells much (if at all with the .38's), and the bullets
have trouble seating because, once past the belling, the case is not
wide enough for the bullet to move into.  The .357 cases have crumpled
a few times, and the bullets' noses almost always get badly deformed.

Dillon suggested polishing the expander bell.  On two phone calls.
It didn't help.

I am guessing that the problems are because of the brass.  The other
brass I have on hand, .38 nickeled cases from cheap "3D remanufactured"
factory reloads, does not seem to stick, much less refuse to bell.  The
bullets also seat just slightly more easily.  I have reloaded these
cases several times now, for around 400 rounds total, with absolutely
no problems.

Any suggestions?  Is this just the "USA" brass, or does this sound
symptomatic of something else wrong (sizer die too small??)?

			-- Michael.

[*] --  whacking it with a mallet didn't work that time, although
	it did on a few other cases.  No, I don't recommend this.
From: upchrch!joel@peora.sdc.ccur.com (Joel Upchurch  )
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Little-known membership benefits of the NRA
Date: 8 Nov 92 13:27:20 GMT
Organization: Upchurch Computer Consulting, Orlando FL

justice@panix.com (Michael Justice) writes:

# One of my coworkers "discovered" that I am a NRA member, and told me this:
# 
# When he first immigrated to the U.S., he bought a cheap used car, which
# happened to have a NRA membership sticker on the back window.  Being lazy,
# he never bothered to remove it.  Then, one fine day, a cop nailed him for
# speeding, saw the NRA sticker, said "Oh, you're in the NRA?" and let him
# off the hook.
# 
# Needless to say, he never removed the sticker . . . and continued to get
# let off the hook.

I've got my sticker, but I never put it on my car for two reasons. The
first is that I think window and bumper sticker are tacky. The second is
that I figure that it's more likely that someone will break into my car
if they think they might find some guns and the NRA sticker might be all
the hint they need to look. For the same reason I don't like to leave
anything visible in the passenger compartment when my car is parked.


(If your mail bounces use the address below.)
Joel Upchurch/Upchurch Computer Consulting/718 Galsworthy/Orlando, FL 32809
joel@peora.ccur.com {uiucuxc,hoptoad,petsd,ucf-cs}!peora!joel (407) 859-0982
From: ci230@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Michael L. Reece)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: AR-15 question?
Date: 11 Nov 92 01:17:54 GMT
Organization: Case Western Reserve University, Cleveland, Ohio (USA)


    I'm ready to make the jump to buy my first rifle.  I'm interested
in the AR-15.  I've heard lots of goods/bads about the various suppliers.
I've done a little reading on the subject.  And I'm still not convinced
what the direction is for my purchase.  Can anyone help me understand the
trade-offs between weapons?  Eagle? or Colt? or Other????  Also what
companies are selling after-market equipment compatable with these weapons?


Thanks in advace!!!



Mike Reece
mlr@cadnet.micro.honeywell.com
From: ph600fcy@sdcc14.ucsd.edu (Matthew Harrington)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Can I buy an assault rifle on a visit to Pennsylvania?
Date: 10 Nov 92 03:16:23 GMT


I will be visiting my parents in Pennsylvania this winter and
thought I'd take advantage of the freedom of being out of
Kalifornia.  I used to be a resident of PA, but I've changed
residency to California for college.  

Are "assault" rifles legal in PA and if so, could I buy one when I'm
back there for three weeks?

Thanks in advance...

					Regards,

					Matt Harrington
From: wrm@friskie.WPI.EDU (William Michalson)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Working up an accurate load
Date: 11 Nov 92 15:49:49 GMT
Organization: Worcester Polytechnic Institute

For those of you seeking maximum accuracy in your handloads (for example,
in BR shooting) how do you go about determining the correct powder/primer/
charge weight/bullet weight/seating depth/etc in an efficient manner?  Does
your approach differ depending on the cartridge/firearm combo (ie rifle
caliber in pistol, pistol caliber in rifle, small rifle, magnum rifle, etc)?

Bill
From: ho%helen.CS.Berkeley.EDU@ucbvax.Berkeley.EDU (Kinson Ho)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Need Prescription Eye Protection Recommendation
Date: 6 Nov 92 01:58:09 GMT
Organization: University of California, Berkeley


Does anyone have recommendations for stores with large selections
of frames (with side shields) for prescription shooting glasses?  
Stores in the East Bay are preferred.  Thanks.

Kinson Ho
From: eric@ms.uky.edu (Eric H. Herrin II)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Colt Sporter mags
Date: 11 Nov 92 20:51:31 GMT
Organization: University Of Kentucky, Dept. of Math Sciences

Well, I just picked up a Colt Sporter Competition HBAR for a great price, but
the two mags it came with are 5 round (20 round with a filler).  Anybody
have any recommendations about where to pick up some 20rd+ mags?  I'm not
looking for junk; I'd prefer a very well-made 3rd party or original colt.

Also, a mail-order place to pick up other accessories/original colt
parts would be welcome.


-- 
--
|  	Eric H. Herrin II - {rutgers,uunet}!ukma!eric, eric@ms.uky.edu	     |
|			  University of Kentucky			     |
From: booth@mdd.comm.mot.com (Greg Booth)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: Unique questions
Date: 6 Nov 92 01:57:33 GMT
Organization: Motorola - Mobile Data Division; Richmond, BC

In <9211041654.AA00221@rutgers.edu> amirza@bronze.ucs.indiana.edu (Anmar Caves) writes:


#This brought the weight up to 7.7 gr. which I ended up loading.

#Anyone have any idea why the disparity between what the data said it
#should weigh, and what I got?

I believe the Lee disk holes are smaller than they claim to be,
they recommend weighing everything if you want to be accurate.

#-- 
#Anmar Mirza   # Chief of Tranquility  #My Opinions! NotIU's!#Purveyor of


-- 
Greg Booth BSc                    |     /_____________________________
BCAA-PCDHF-BCWF-NFA-NRA-IPSC-BCFSS|@====|_____________________________>
Motorola Mobile Data Division     |     \
booth@mdd.comm.mot.com cgb003@email.comm.mot.com