HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: J.W.Harley@newcastle.ac.uk (Jon Harley)
Newsgroups: uk.bcs.misc
Subject: Re: Engineers etc.
Date: 16 Dec 92 11:51:56 GMT
Distribution: uk
Organization: University of Newcastle upon Tyne, UK, NE1 7RU

Lindsay.Marshall@newcastle.ac.uk (Lindsay F. Marshall) writes:

>Several people recently have brought up the subject of the notion of
>"Engineer". Whilst I am a member of the BCS and have CEng status, I
>object VERY strongly indeed to being described as an Information
>Engineer. This is a stupid meaningless title and is offensive to other
>"proper" engineers - I am married to one and she thinks the whole
>thingt is a farce. I am Computer Scientist.
...

But the BCS _doesn't_ value scientists as much as *.Engineers. I've recently
discovered that when evaluating computing experience, research only counts
for half as much as routine software development. So, after 3 years doing
original computer science research for a PhD, and thus making a genuine
contribution to the field, I only have 1.5 years towards the requirement
for becoming an ordinary member of the BCS (min. 4 years).


/jon
-- 
   ___________________ ____ ________________________________________
  / -- Jonathan Harley \  /_   Could be an ever opening flower...  //    //  //
 / J.W.Harley@ncl.ac.uk \/ /  It's the beginning of               // // //////
/_Phone:UK 091 222 8504__\/__a new love inside________________///////////  //
From: dswt@bnr.co.uk (Stewart Tansley)
Newsgroups: uk.bcs.misc
Subject: Re: Engineers etc.
Date: 18 Dec 1992 11:00:27 GMT
Organization: BNR Europe Ltd, London Road, Harlow, England.
Distribution: uk
NNTP-Posting-Host: 128.199.202.41

In article <BzG57A.50y@newcastle.ac.uk> Lindsay.Marshall@newcastle.ac.uk (Lindsay F. Marshall) writes:
>amn@unix.brighton.ac.uk (Anthony Naggs) writes:

[Stuff deleted]
>
>There is a difference between applying engineering principles and
>actually doing engineering. 

Come on then Lindsay, let's hear your definition of an engineer and
engineering -- or can you direct us to a current post in another
newsgroup?

It's sounds to me as if most of the engineers I know don't even do
engineering! :-)

===========================================================================
Stewart Tansley     | BNR Europe Limited              |  'Be cool, or be
                    | London Rd, Harlow, CM17 9NA, UK |    cast out...'
dswt@bnr.co.uk      | +44 279 429531 x2763 (ESN 742)  | Subdivisions, Rush
===========================================================================
  'You know how that rabbit feels -- going under your speeding wheels...'
===========================================================================
From: amn@unix.brighton.ac.uk (Anthony Naggs)
Newsgroups: uk.bcs.misc
Subject: Re: Engineers etc.
Summary: I -DO- Engineer Software
Date: 17 Dec 92 02:05:24 GMT
Reply-To: amn@vms.bton.ac.uk
Distribution: uk
Organization: University of Brighton, UK

Lindsay Marshall says:
> .. I object VERY strongly indeed to being described as an Information
> Engineer. This is a stupid meaningless title and is offensive to other
> "proper" engineers - ...

I don't know what an "Information Engineer" is, but I do know that I
engineer software and systems.

So what do I do that makes me an engineer?
Well, some suggestions:
1   Collect detailed requirements, classifying them into those which define
    the scope of the problem, external appearance of the solution, features
    which my client has seen elsewhere but doesn't really need/want.
2   Specify the system, (whether in English, pseudo-code, Z, ..), including
    specification of the required test coverage.
3   Particularly for embedded systems and other critical applications,
    define and agree behaviour in event of software or system faults,
    (fail safe, fail soft, ..) - and recovery strategies.
4   Develop a test plan to meet the requirements of 2 & 3.  Including both
    functional and parametric tests.
5   Break the specification into logical blocks, each with a subspecification.
    Refine the breakdown into smaller blocks, to reach definitions for
    programming teams, libraries, functions, as required.
6   Refine the test plan, to include tests at each level in 5.
7   Implement the design.  Selecting programming tools, languages to suit the
    task.
8   Ensure that software/system is tested in accordance with the test plan
    before release.

The key is to apply a sound method.

"Selecting programming tools, ..", sounds a bit heavy, but I approach it in
the same way as I do electronics - at the micro level, selecting components
to suit the task, such as logic ICs, audio circuits, video circuits, radio
circuits, or humble transistors.  While a spectrum of parts/tools may do a
task it is my duty to select the most appropriate, balancing the specification
and cost against the requirements of the task in hand.  At the macro level
I need test equipment that is appropriate, for example equipment that must
comply with RF (radio frequency or electro-magnetic) emission and
susceptibility regulations requires special test equipment and considerations.


Finally, I am not claiming that all my programming is 'engineering', but
I believe that on the occasions when I use the above methods that I am
then applying engineering principles.


Anthony Naggs
Software/Electronics Engineer                   P O Box 1080, Peacehaven
                                                East Sussex  BN10 8PZ
Phone: 0273 589701                              Great Britain
Email: (c/o Univ of Brighton) amn@vms.brighton.ac.uk  or  xa329@city.ac.uk
From: aro@aber.ac.uk (Andrew Ormsby)
Newsgroups: uk.bcs.misc
Subject: Re: Engineers etc.
Date: 18 Dec 92 17:30:33 GMT
Reply-To: aro@aber.ac.uk (Andrew Ormsby)
Distribution: uk
Organization: CS Dept, University College of Wales, Aberystwyth

In article <BzCoyL.Apw@newcastle.ac.uk> J.W.Harley@newcastle.ac.uk (Jon Harley) writes:

> But the BCS _doesn't_ value scientists as much as *.Engineers. I've recently
> discovered that when evaluating computing experience, research only counts
> for half as much as routine software development. So, after 3 years doing
> original computer science research for a PhD, and thus making a genuine
> contribution to the field, I only have 1.5 years towards the requirement
> for becoming an ordinary member of the BCS (min. 4 years).

But why should the BCS value science as much as engineering
experience? After all, the PhD is the reward for the research. The
C.Eng (or whatever) is supposed to indicate something else. 

Building research systems, whether you make a genine contribution to
the field or not, is frequently (though not always) significantly
different to building industrial strength systems, and should be.

Whether the BCS succeeds in doing what it sets out to do is another
matter.

--
Andrew Ormsby	 AI & Robotics Research Group, Department of Computer Science,
aro@aber.ac.uk   University of Wales, Aberystwyth, SY23 3DB, UK.
From: sjc@zoo.bt.co.uk (Stuart John Cochran)
Newsgroups: uk.bcs.misc
Subject: Re: Can I be a member? No.
Date: 11 Dec 92 11:22:30 GMT
Reply-To: sjc@zoo.bt.co.uk
Organization: BT Laboratories

In article 179@specialix.co.uk, jonb@specialix.co.uk (Jon Brawn) writes:

> I will NOT become a registrant, as this seems to have a
> ``negative'' value, profesionally speaking.

I find this interesting. Can I ask why you (or anybody else) feel(s) this
way? My own interpretation of ``registrant'' is that it allows me to
demonstrate to my employer a planned and considered approach to attaining
professional membership. (I should point out that this is in
combination with the BCS Professional Development Scheme). Does this have
a ``negative'' value?

> [...] I will discover that membership of the BCS is
> basically open to any dweeb [...]
>
> Wishing for someone to put me straight...

I am sure that there are better and more qualified persons than I
to comment on this.
---
Stuart Cochran <sjc@zoo.bt.co.uk>  <+44 473 645068>
Configuration Management Development -- BT Laboratories -- England
From: Lindsay.Marshall@newcastle.ac.uk (Lindsay F. Marshall)
Newsgroups: uk.bcs.misc
Subject: Engineers etc.
Date: 16 Dec 92 10:02:54 GMT
Distribution: uk
Organization: University of Newcastle upon Tyne, UK, NE1 7RU

Several people recently have brought up the subject of the notion of
"Engineer". Whilst I am a member of the BCS and have CEng status, I
object VERY strongly indeed to being described as an Information
Engineer. This is a stupid meaningless title and is offensive to other
"proper" engineers - I am married to one and she thinks the whole
thingt is a farce. I am Computer Scientist. It says so on my degree
certificate (albeit in latin!!!). I am *not* an Engineer, never have
been and never will be. I do feel strongly about professionalism
however and that is why I have gone along with this nonsense.


I will not however start my rant about "software engineering" at this
juncture......

L.
MAIL :	Lindsay.Marshall@newcastle.ac.uk
POST :	Computing Laboratory, The University, Newcastle upon Tyne, UK NE1 7RU
VOICE:	+44-91-222-8267
FAX  :	+44-91-222-8572
Xref: sparky uk.bcs.misc:28 uk.misc:1867
From: ccdarg@dct.ac.uk (Alan Greig)
Newsgroups: uk.net,uk.bcs.misc,uk.misc
Subject: uk.bcs.announce
Date: 16 Dec 92 09:30:51 GMT
Followup-To: uk.net,uk.misc
Organization: Dundee Institute of Technology

In the checkgroups posting recently posted by uknet the group
uk.bcs.announce is listed as unmoderated. This is incorrect and
should be moderated by mcramm@dct.ac.uk. Could any sysadmins who
have now set it unmoderated please set it back...

The group uk.bcs.misc is correctly listed as unmoderated.
-- 
Alan Greig                            Janet: Alan@UK.AC.DUNDEE-TECH
Dundee Institute of Technology	   Internet: Alan@DCT.AC.UK
Tel: (0382) 308810                 Int: +44 382 308810
              -- There is only one true conspiracy --
From: mcramm@dct.ac.uk (McRamm)
Newsgroups: uk.bcs.announce
Subject: uk.bcs.announce - Charter reminder
Date: 16 Dec 92 12:04:23 GMT
Organization: Dundee Institute of Technology

uk.bcs.announce is a moderated newsgroup.

Group submission address:   mcramm@dct.ac.uk
Moderator contact address:  mcramm@dct.ac.uk  (Angus Marshall)

For your newsgroups file:
uk.bcs.announce  Announcements relating to the British Computer Society

This group is for  the  posting  of  BCS  announcements relating to meetings, 
seminars, contacts,  branch  and specialist group  activities,  and  also  for
BCS guidelines which  affect  the  conduct of all members (e.g. code of conduct
and code of practice) and details of publications. 
-- 
 Angus M. Marshall, MCRAMM@DCT.AC.UK,amarshal@mcs.dund.ac.uk, (+44 382) 308600
Then I was gone, and in my place - a cat with green eyes.
    )     <-- Cheshire Smiley?
From: mcramm@dct.ac.uk (McRamm)
Newsgroups: uk.bcs.announce
Subject: Edinburgh - International Software Publishing - 16/12/92
Date: 16 Dec 92 12:01:34 GMT
Organization: Dundee Institute of Technology

From: D Muxworthy <dtm@uk.ac.ed.castle>

BCS Edinburgh branch meeting, Wed 16 Dec at 6.00 pm at Carlton Highland Hotel,
North Bridge; all welcome whether members or not. 

Teddy Bengtsson of Aldus will talk on "International Software Publishing". 

Aldus Europe, based in Edinburgh, publish versions of their packages including
Pagemaker, Freehand, Persuasion etc in British English, French, German,
Italian and several other European languages.  Teddy Bengtsson, a Swede, is
responsible for a mini-United Nations of Aldus staff, each a native speaker of
his own language.  He will describe how to publish softwrae throughtout
Europe. 

-- 
Apologies for the delay posting this. I've been away from the net for a 
couple of days.

 Angus M. Marshall, MCRAMM@DCT.AC.UK,amarshal@mcs.dund.ac.uk, (+44 382) 308600
Then I was gone, and in my place - a cat with green eyes.
    )     <-- Cheshire Smiley?
From: fj@dc.luth.se (Fredrik Johansson)
Newsgroups: swnet.unix
Subject: Re: VMS: rename *.x *.y, UNIX: ?
Date: 14 Dec 92 07:43:43 GMT
Distribution: swnet
Organization: University of Lulea, Sweden

Jag s}g ocks} problemet och framf|r allt behovet. Men jag l|ste det med perl.

#! /usr/local/bin/perl
# mv extension on files  ex. xx.1 yy.1 -> xx.p yy.p 
# default delimiter are .  (dot)
# -r remove delim. and ext.
# -a add delim. and ext.
# -n change delim.
#
# Author: Fredrik Johansson 910618

require 'getopts.pl';
$prog = $0;
$prog =~ s#^.*/##;
$use = "usage: $prog [-d delimiter -n new delimiter -a -r] files new_extension\n"; 

&Getopts('ard:n:') || die "$use"; 
if ($#ARGV == -1) {
   print $use;
   exit;
}

$dlm  = $opt_d ? $opt_d : '.';
$ndlm = $opt_n ? $opt_n : $dlm;
$next = pop(@ARGV) unless $opt_r;
$bs = '\\';

foreach (@ARGV) {
   (rename ($_,"$_$ndlm$next") || die) if $opt_a;
   if (m/(^.*)$bs$dlm/ && $opt_r) {
      rename ($_,$1) || die;
   }
   if  (m/(^.*)$bs$dlm/ && !$opt_a && !$opt_r) {
      rename($_,"$1$ndlm$next") || die;
   }
}
From: hansg@risken.vd.volvo.se (Hans Granqvist)
Newsgroups: swnet.unix
Subject: Re: VMS: rename *.x *.y, UNIX: ?
Date: 12 Dec 92 17:59:38 GMT
Distribution: swnet

magnus@thep.lu.se (Magnus Olsson) writes:

>Detta {r inte menat som en spydighet, men du _borde_ nog testa dina
>f|rslag innan du postar dem

Det ar ingen bug, det ar en feature... :-)

Nej, really, dar ser man, man lar sig nagot varje dag!
Ska vara forsiktigare i framtiden...

--
Hans Granqvist                                  Just one guy's opinion... 
Volvo Data Corporation, Gothenburg, Sweden      
To every complex problem there is an easy solution. And it is not correct.
From: ice@meryl.csd.uu.se (Fredrik Nyman)
Newsgroups: swnet.svenska
Subject: Re: Disclaimer == Friskrivning enl Apple
Date: 17 Dec 92 15:11:19 GMT
Organization: Uppsala University
Distribution: swnet
NNTP-Posting-Host: meryl.csd.uu.se

petrus@stacken.kth.se (Lars Petrus) writes:


>   Jag s}g idag ett licensavtal fr}n Apple. D{r finns f|ljande text:

>5. FRISKRIVNING

>Licenstagaren licensierar Utvecklingsverktygen i befintligt skick. Apple
>eller annat f|retag inom Apple-koncernen l{mnar inga utf{stelser eller 
>garantier, vare sig uttryckliga eller underf|rst}dda, ang}ende Utvecklings-
>verktygens l{mplighet generellt eller f|r n}got visst {ndam}l, ej heller
>avseende m|jligheten att anv{nda Utvecklingsverktygen i f|rening med
>Licenstagarens Produkter.

Ingen vidare bra |vers{}ttning tycker jag.  Jag f|redrar definitivt
"ANSVARSBEGR[NSNING", f|r {ven om det ordet {r l{ngre s} f|rst}r man
ju direkt vad det handlar om.
--
Fredrik Nyman  :: 13204 Miles Ct, #202 :: Laurel, MD 20708 :: (301)604-9419
<ice@syrinx.umd.edu> <ice@drycas.club.cc.cmu.edu> <ice@wang.com>
"New World Order - Same Old Lies".
Newsgroups: swnet.svenska
From: f90-len@byse.nada.kth.se (Lars Engebretsen)
Subject: Re: tvetydigheter
Organization: Royal Institute of Technology, Stockholm, Sweden
Distribution: swnet
Date: Wed, 16 Dec 1992 21:51:25 GMT

In article <BzD9Gx.8Jq@cs.umu.se> dvldbg@cs.umu.se (Daniel Brahneborg) writes:
>In article <BzCvBv.5A1@cs.umu.se> erikt@cs.umu.se (Erik T{rnvik) writes:
>>In <BzBF8L.8AH@cs.umu.se> dvldbg@cs.umu.se (Daniel Brahneborg) writes:
>>>In article <BzB43r.6Gw@cs.umu.se> erikt@cs.umu.se (Erik T{rnvik) writes:
>>
>>>>x = {n |  n = p}
>>
>>>Va?
>>
>>Vilket skulle bevisas.
>
>Du har inte bevisat n}gonting. Det enda du kan ha lyckats med {r att hitta
>p} en matematisk formel som jag inte fattar ett dyft av.
>Detta {r en /mycket/ enkel uppgift, s} du f}r inga extrapo{ng f|r det.
>
>Eftersom det finns ett "=" med s} ska det som sagt
>l{sas som en matematisk eller logisk formel av n}got slag.
>Som s}dan s{ger den mig allts} inte flasklock. Jag l{ser den som:
>"Variabeln 'x' {r lika med antingen:
>  1. V{rdet p} variabeln (eller konstanten, eller n}t) 'n', eller,
>  2. v{rdet p} 'v{rdet p} variabeln 'n' {r lika med v{rdet p} 'p'.'"

Den skall utlaesas: "x aer lika med maengden av alla n saadana att n aer lika
med p".
-- 
Lars Engebretsen, Fm-90 KTH, f90-len@nada.kth.se
Newsgroups: swnet.svenska
From: gorhas@saaf.se (G|ran Hasse)
Subject: Re: Anv{nd {}| och [], tack!!
Organization: SAAF, Svensk Amat|rAstronomisk F|rening
Distribution: swnet
Date: Sat, 12 Dec 92 09:05:50 GMT

In article <7520@pkmab.se> ske@pkmab.se (Kristoffer Eriksson) writes:
>In article <1992Dec10.154554.25353@saaf.se> gorhas@saaf.se (G|ran Hasse) writes:
>>Vad jag kan fvrste dr det dom som inte har haft red att fvlja med i
>>nya versioner pe sina os.
>
>Sina OS? Vadan terminalerna, d}? Ska man ladda dem med nytt OS ocks}?

N! Dom laddar man med nytt prom. (I prommet finns ett litet progam
som R sjlva terminalen, tecken representationen mm). Trodde du att
det r en liten skrivmaskin med blytyper drinne.

Det r klart att man mste sklla p sin tillverkare s att dom frser
en med nya prom till vettiga priser...

>
>-- 
>Kristoffer Eriksson, Peridot Konsult AB, Stallgatan 2, S-702 26 Oerebro, Sweden
>Phone: +46 19-33 13 00  !  e-mail: ske@pkmab.se
>Fax:   +46 19-33 13 30  !  or ...!mail.swip.net!kullmar!pkmab!ske


-- 
-------------------------------------------------------------
Gran Hasse                              tel:  + 46 8 7730148 
Svensk AmatrAstronomisk Frening        fax:  + 46 8 7730902
Box 38,   138 00  LTA                e-mail:  gorhas@saaf.se
Newsgroups: swnet.svenska
From: md87-mpe@nada.kth.se (Magnus Pettersson)
Subject: Re: |ver
Keywords: foo
Organization: Royal Institute of Technology, Stockholm, Sweden
Distribution: swnet
Date: Wed, 9 Dec 1992 09:30:48 GMT

In article <1992Dec8.145147.7834@etek.chalmers.se>, lindq@etek.chalmers.se (Johan Lindqvist) writes:
|> Jag s{ger starta upp om datorer och liknande.
|> Bilar startar man, datorer startar man upp. Visst, direkt|versatt
|> fr}n engelskan. D{remot reagerar jag om man 'startar upp' ett f|retag.
|> 
|> Det betyder inte samma sak n{r man s{tter 'upp' efter ett verb.
|> 
|> Huset brinner = N}gonstans/hela huset brinner.
|> Huset brinner upp = Huset brinner ner = Det finns inget hus kvar sen.
|> 
|> Lyfter man n}got {r det i sig sj{lv nog, men om man lyfter upp det
|> {r det f|r att placera det h|gre {n tidigare (?)

Ok. "huset brinner [upp]" {r tv} olika meningar och likas} {r "lyfta [upp]". Men
jag tycker fortfarande att det inte {r n}gon skillnad p} att "starta" och att
"starta upp", varken f|retag, datorer eller bilar. Att "starta upp datorn" kommer
fr}n engelskan {r jag fullkomligt |vertygad om, men det {r m|jligen en f|rklaring
inte en urs{kt ;-)

-- 

============================================+========+
! Magnus Pettersson                         ! NEJ    !
! Stockholms Universitet                    !   till !
! E-mail: md87-mpe@nada.kth.se              !     EG !
============================================+========+

Newsgroups: swnet.svenska
From: dvldbg@cs.umu.se (Daniel Brahneborg)
Subject: Re: tvetydigheter
Organization: Dept. of Computing Science, Umea Univ., 901 87  UMEA  SWEDEN
Distribution: swnet
Date: Wed, 16 Dec 1992 19:14:56 GMT

In article <BzCvBv.5A1@cs.umu.se> erikt@cs.umu.se (Erik T{rnvik) writes:
>In <BzBF8L.8AH@cs.umu.se> dvldbg@cs.umu.se (Daniel Brahneborg) writes:
>>In article <BzB43r.6Gw@cs.umu.se> erikt@cs.umu.se (Erik T{rnvik) writes:
>
>>>x = {n |  n = p}
>
>>Va?
>
>Vilket skulle bevisas.

Du har inte bevisat n}gonting. Det enda du kan ha lyckats med {r att hitta
p} en matematisk formel som jag inte fattar ett dyft av.
Detta {r en /mycket/ enkel uppgift, s} du f}r inga extrapo{ng f|r det.

Eftersom det finns ett "=" med s} ska det som sagt
l{sas som en matematisk eller logisk formel av n}got slag.
Som s}dan s{ger den mig allts} inte flasklock. Jag l{ser den som:
"Variabeln 'x' {r lika med antingen:
  1. V{rdet p} variabeln (eller konstanten, eller n}t) 'n', eller,
  2. v{rdet p} 'v{rdet p} variabeln 'n' {r lika med v{rdet p} 'p'.'"

Som text blir det {nnu mer obegripligt.

Som jag ocks} skrev tidigare s} anger jag alltid vad som {r kod eller
formler eller programkod, s} det finns aldrig n}gon risk att l{saren
g|r fel.

/Basic
From: jem@sm.luth.se (Jan Erik Mostr|m)
Newsgroups: swnet.svenska
Subject: Re: Sk}nska och norrl{ndska
Date: 13 Dec 92 12:24:49 GMT
Distribution: swnet
Organization: University of Lulea, Sweden

In <1992Dec11.112431.12671@kth.se> matsd@LINK.Physchem.KTH.SE (mats dahlgren) writes:
>Jag vill heller inte verka petig, men Kiruna ligger *inte* i 
>Norrbotten, utan i Lappland.                                    :-)     

8-)
Om de inte har hunnit {ndra p} saken s} finns v{l inte Norrbotten
igentligen |verhuvudtaget. Men det har ju varit p} g}ng att {ndra det
ocks} ...

8-)
Newsgroups: swnet.svenska
From: erikt@cs.umu.se (Erik T{rnvik)
Subject: Re: tvetydigheter
Organization: Dep. of Info.Proc, Umea Univ., Sweden
Distribution: swnet
Date: Fri, 18 Dec 1992 09:01:54 GMT

In <TORKEL.92Dec16161104@lludd.sics.se> torkel@sics.se (Torkel Franzen) writes:

>In article <BzCvBv.5A1@cs.umu.se> erikt@cs.umu.se (Erik T{rnvik) writes:

>   >Vilket skulle bevisas.

>  Struntprat. Obegriplighet och tvetydighet ar helt skilda saker.

Intressant upplysning. D kanske du kan tala om hur jag skall tolka
Brahneborns kommentar

    Va?

Obegripligt eller tvetydigt? Eftersom du sger att det r helt skilda saker
br du ltt kunna avgra vilket. Ngot som r tvetydigt blir snabbt
obegripligt, eller hur?

"Struntprat" r frresten ett ord som br undvikas, d
det p inget stt underbygger din argumentation.

-- 
Erik Trnvik              University of Ume
erikt@cs.umu.se           Dept. of Computing Science    
TEL:+46-90167708          S-90187 Ume, SWEDEN         "audentes fortuna juvat"
Newsgroups: swnet.svenska
From: petrus@stacken.kth.se (Lars Petrus)
Subject: Re: Sk}nska och norrl{ndska
Organization: Stacken Computer Club, Stockholm, Sweden
Distribution: swnet
Date: Fri, 18 Dec 1992 22:02:10 GMT

 matsd@LINK.Physchem.KTH.SE writes:
>, uddeborg@sisu.se (Goeran Uddeborg) writes:
>> matsd@LINK.Physchem.KTH.SE writes:
>>>Jag vill heller inte verka petig, men Kiruna ligger *inte* i 
>>>Norrbotten, utan i Lappland.                                    :-)     
>>
>>Men dock i Norrbottens l{n. :-)
>
>O ja!  *Men* skriv d} "Norrbottens l{n" och inte "Norrbotten".        :-)
>
>/mats d.     
>p} petigt hum|r :-)

   Eftersom |vriga norrbottningar h{r {r f|r tystl}tna f|r att s{ga ifr}n f}r
v{l jag ta p} mig det.

   I Norrbotten {r det s} att ordet "Norrbotten" till 100% refererar till
Norrbottens l{n. Vill man av n}gon anledning tala om landskapet m}ste man
s{ga Norrbottens landskap. Din inv{ndning visar bara att du {r en okunnig
s|rl{nning. Det {r ungef{r lika illa som att s{ga "Lule}" i talspr}k (det
heter "Lule").

  -  -  -  -
"Whenever you find that you are on the side of the majority, it is time
 to reform."
                -- Mark Twain

Lars Petrus, Solna, Sweden  -  petrus@stacken.kth.se

Newsgroups: swnet.svenska
From: torkel@sics.se (Torkel Franzen)
Subject: Re: R{var och hundar
Organization: Swedish Institute of Computer Science, Kista
Distribution: swnet
Date: Tue, 15 Dec 1992 16:24:06 GMT

In article <BzB43r.6Gw@cs.umu.se> erikt@cs.umu.se (Erik T{rnvik) writes:

   >x = {n |  n = p}

  I vilket sammanhang skulle detta vara tvetydigt?
Newsgroups: swnet.svenska
From: ulf@julius.c3consult.comm.se (Ulf Lagerstedt)
Subject: Prist{vling! (var Re: R{var och hundar)
Organization: Communicator C3Consult AB
Distribution: swnet
Date: Tue, 15 Dec 1992 16:19:32 GMT


In article <ice.724428538@meryl> ice@meryl.csd.uu.se (Fredrik Nyman) writes:
>Flygande b{ckasiner s|ka hwila p} mjuka tufvor.
>Bokst{verna q, x, och z slipps.

Man kan optimera tufvor till tuvor. Fast jag {r {nd} inte s} n|jd med
ramsan. 

Utmaning: Konstruera en b{ttre alfabetsramsa.

Krav:
1. Alla bokst{ver i det svenska alfabetet anv{nds precis en g}ng. 
2. Inga avvikelser g|rs fr}n modern svensk stavning och grammatik.
3. Ramsan innehller en liten lustighet eller knorr.

Jag erbjuder h{rmed en flaska champagne av god kvalitet* till den som kan
konstruera den b{sta ramsan. Den m}ste dock uppfylla }tminstone krav 1
och 2.

Om den b{sta ramsan inte klarar b}de krav 1 och 2 erbjuder jag ett mindre pris
av {nnu odefinierad storlek. Det beror p} ramsans kvalitet. T{vlingsbidrag
skall vara mig tillhanda senast 1993-03-01. 


*) Om laga hinder eller |nskem}l fr}n pristagaren f|religger s} kan priset
{ven utg} i form av 400 kronor.

Denna text f}r spridas fritt.

--
Ulf Lagerstedt, Communicator C3Consult, Sweden  /  ulf@c3consult.comm.se
Newsgroups: swnet.svenska