From: altheimm@nextnet.csus.edu (Murray Altheim)
Subject: Re: re. religious intolerance
Organization: California State University: Sacramento
Date: Thu, 27 Aug 1992 19:38:43 GMT

In article <BtMAr9.48t@news.cso.uiuc.edu> ba@mrcnext.cso.uiuc.edu (B.A. Davis-Howe) writes:
>liam@brewich.hou.tx.us (Liam) writes:
>
>>number two...the christians seem to be able to all agree on one 
>>thing, WE represent a common enemy;
>
>This is not a true statement.  Not all Christians consider pagans to be enemies.
>Most mainline Christian groups, while they may go so far as to feel that non-
>Christians won't get into heaven, do not consider neo-pagans to be enemies.
>They would dump us in the same camp as Jews and other non-Christians.  That is,
>they see us as wrong, but nice people all the same.  Of course, this only 
>applies to those Christians who have been exposed to us so as to get to know 
>what neo-paganism is.  It may be true that most of the *fundamentalist* 
>Christians will unite against pagans, but fundamentalist Christianity is no more
>the limit of Christianity than fundamentalist Wicca is the limit of Wicca.  I
>would *much* rather deal with most Christians than a fundamentalist Witch.  The
>Christians, even most of the fundie ones, will treat me with more respect.
>
>The moral: people in glass houses...until we don't have people like Donal
>telling everyone else how unpagan they are we have no reason to claim moral
>superiority over any other religion or group of religions.
>
>              Merry meet, merry part, merry meet again,
>                               Br'anArthur

Only a minor disagreement, and I must agree with you regarding strict
definitions of paganism, but please remember (for all our sakes) that
religious fundamentalism is the fastest growing segment of religion not only
in this country, but in the world. It is also the most threatening in 
the sense of the extremes of religious intolerance. Few pagan religions
(and I didn't say all) are trying to shut down other religious expression.

The rise of the evangelical and fundamentalist right usually centers around
large urban, very well-monied congregations, not small town parishes (which
have generally been less radical politically).

In my area, one of the largest (maybe the largest) and certainly the most
visible is the Capitol Christian Center. They contribute heavily to right
wing causes, and for all intents and purposes control one of the city's
newspapers, the Sacramento Union. Even though the Union is California's
oldest daily, it no longer is respected as a source of anything but right 
leaning propaganda. BTW, George Will actually gets front page of the 
editorial section coverage, and Rush Limbaugh's face is plastered all over
town, and his radio (and soon to be television) program are VERY
popular. So much for California having much left of a visible liberal
culture. I fear we are being driven underground.

The only group I see still trying to stay out of the closet is the
California gay community, and the press depictions of them in many
cases only amplifies the division between them and the "mainstream" 
culture (whoever they are), ie., rather than a reasoned argument 
from a gay activist, we see topless, painted breasts parading past riot
police (one reason I've always stressed moderation in public conduct
among any "alternative" organizations I've been involved in, such as the
peace or environmental movements). There is a difference between being 
visible and creating a target. Gaining the respect of your opponent is
important too. And yes, this discussion could go to a more appropriate
newsgroup... I just think these are issues for all pagans, and as Dan
Quayle has made perfectly clear, ANYONE who practices any form of 
"alternative" lifestyle.  

Blessings,

Murray

-- 
Murray M. Altheim      "Ils ont l'orteil de Bouc, & d'un Chevreil l'oreille,
Instructional Consultant    La corne d'un Chamois, & la face vermeille
CSU, Sacramento          Comme un rouge Croissant: & dancent toute nuict
altheimm@csus.edu       Dedans un carrefour, ou pres d'une eau qui bruict."