HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: jarvis@psych.toronto.edu (Brian Jarvis)
Subject: Re: Year of the Queer
Organization: Department of Psychology, University of Toronto
Date: Tue, 12 Jan 1993 16:06:09 GMT

In article <1iu56tINNrgf@mizar.usc.edu> adolphso@mizar.usc.edu (adolphson) writes:
>In article <1993Jan12.072744.27430@netcom.com> 
>cjlee@netcom.com (Caroline Jean Lee) writes:
>> Reality Check for those glorifying Stonewall:
>>
>> The majority of the people on this planet who have sex with others
>> of the same gender don't know about Stonewall and most likely
>> haven't been majorly affected by it. 
>
>Um, OK, if you're talking about the riot itself.

>> In fact, most of what we'd call
>> queers on this planet might not identify themselves as such
>> because they concieve of sexuality in different terms.
>
>Um, I don't know that it's really up to you or
>me to impose our definitions on people who conceive
>of sexuality in terms different from ours.

I don't think it's up to you or me to impose our ideas of cultural
liberation, celebration and history on other people who conceive of
sexuality in terms different from ours.

>> I am thinking primarily of Asia, which is where most people on this
>> planet live, but Latin America also comes to mind, off the top of my head.
>> The concept of "gay pride" would be a foreign one, and the idea of
>> celebrating some riot at a bar in NYC would seem ridiculous to them.
>
>Yeah, well, I didn't realize that Gay Pride events
>were designed to celebrate the "as long as I'm on top
>sticking it in I'm not a woman" male sexuality of 
>rural Mexico.

Where is Carline write that?  I don't see it anywhere.

Brian
-- 

Brian A. Jarvis,          Rm. 4026, Sidney Smith Hall, Dept. of Psychology,
jarvis@psych.toronto.edu  University of Toronto, Toronto, Ontario, Canada
System Administrator      M5S 1A1  (416) 978-3948
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: buckmr@marcus.its.rpi.edu (Ron Buckmire)
Subject: OPERA: ``The Birth Of Venus'' at UCLA 1/8-1/9
Date: Thu, 7 Jan 1993 02:25:17 GMT


Naked Emperor Productions and UCLA Department of Music Present:

THE BIRTH OF VENUS, A three act tragic opera in English, by Kent Carlson.

Conducted by Jonathan Stockhammer, Directed by Jennifer Adcock

                        starring

**DEAN ELZINGA  REBECCA SEMRAU  CONSUELO MORENO KENT CARLSON

On Friday January 8th and Saturday January 9th at 8:00pm in the Schoenberg
Auditorium at UCLA.

Tickets are $15 ($10 for students) 310-825-2101.

[** Dean is my significant other. Kent is his ex-boyfriend and wrote the opera
specifically for Dean. So I will be watching them VERY carefully! :-) If anyone
else wants to see it, it's pretty fun, and you get to met me and Dean!]

-- 
vox:(518)-276-8910 fax:(518)-276-6920 buckmr@rpi.edu buckmr@rpitsmts.bitnet
``No exam-cheating, pot-smoking, draft-dodging, privileged youth Vice-President
in a "Bush The Blamer" administration can speak with moral authority about
abandoned moral values and assuming personal responsibility.''--Jesse Jackson
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: rizzoe@FASECON.ECON.NYU.EDU (Emily Rizzo)
Subject: Re: Pride rings going mainstream? (was Re: Pride Ring Colours...
Organization: New York University
Date: Thu, 7 Jan 1993 22:18:23 GMT

In article <16B4FD6FE.TMCCART3@ua1vm.ua.edu> TMCCART3@ua1vm.ua.edu (Tracey McCartney) writes:

>Here in good ol' Tuscaloosa, AL., you can get pride rings at a place called
>Claire's Boutique, one of a chain of costume-jewelry outfits at shopping
>malls everywhere. I understand that one of the veejays on MTV has begun
>wearing them on the air, and they've become sort of a mainstream fad. Am I
>the only person pissed off about this? As the woman who runs the sorta gay
>bookstore I visit occasionally in Birmingham put it, "Damn. Soon as we get a
>good signal worked out, they take it."

Speaking of co-opting symbols, I was rather surprised to see full page ads 
in both Time and Newsweek before the holidays asking people to tie a red 
ribbon to their car antenna to show that they are against drunk driving. 

Emily

Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: anderson@macc.wisc.edu (Jess Anderson)
Subject: Re: Nominations for best Men's cologne
Organization: Madison Academic Computing Center, UW-Madison
Date: Wed, 6 Jan 93 11:05:51 GMT

In article <1993Jan6.080246.11207@psych.toronto.edu> bill@psych.toronto.edu (Bill Pusztai) writes:
>In article <1993Jan6.035226.19616@macc.wisc.edu>
>anderson@macc.wisc.edu (Jess Anderson) writes:
> 
>/One day, I dunno for what reason, I asked him if he
>/could compound something that smelled like me [...and
>/he did...] so I can tell you I have a small vial named
>/"Jess, very concentrated stuff.  But better yet, I have
>/the recipe.
>     ^^^^^^
>Could you be talked into *sharing* ? I've always
>wondered how one would compound a person's scent.
> 
>This whole discussion reminds me of a raunch-loving man
>I know ... the riper he gets, the more strongly he
>smells of chocolate and hazelnuts :-) over and above
>the sweat, of course.
> 
>Now there's an award-winning cologne: Bear Sweat
>Noisette.
> 
>______________________________oOo_______________________________
>                               +
>bill@psych.toronto.edu  Bill Pusztai   B7 f++ t++ w+ g+ k+ s+ p+


-- 
[Jess Anderson <> Madison Academic Computing Center <> University of Wisconsin]
[Internet: anderson@macc.wisc.edu <-best, UUCP:{}!uwvax!macc.wisc.edu!anderson]
[Room 3130 <> 1210 West Dayton Street / Madison WI 53706 <> Phone 608/262-5888]
[---------> Discrimination, Bigotry, and Hate are not Family Values <---------]
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: dyarman@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (Donald L Yarman)
Subject: Re: Out to parents in relationships (was Re: long-term relationships..
Organization: The Ohio State University
Date: Thu, 7 Jan 1993 14:04:35 GMT

In article <KMEYER.93Jan6161800@solarium.aero.org> 
kmeyer@aero.org (Kraig R. Meyer) writes:
>
>I have noticed one peculiar characteristic about every couple that
>I know who have had successful long term relationships.  In every
>instance, both partners have been out to their parents.
>
>Have others seen this same thing?  If so, why do you think it is?
>It seems as though there could be a lot of different factors.  There
>could be an added element of support, or higher level of maturity
>or self-esteem.

Well, I'd like to claim a higher level of maturity or self-esteem,
but I'd be lying.  My mother figured out I was gay _because_ of my
relationship.  "Roommates," she said, "don't call roommates just to
tell them they'll be late."  It was really very hard beginning my
relationship with Mike without telling my mom.  The most wonderful
thing ever to have happened to me, and I was afraid to share it
with her.  Mom and I danced around for nearly two years, me wondering
if this would be the weekend I'd tell her, her wondering if this
would be the weekend she'd ask.

Everything's wonderful now.  The whole family bends over backwards
to make sure they treat my relationship the same way they treat
my sister's marriage.

--Don
-- 
Don Yarman         ______/|/|       dyarman@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu
                     (_) \|\|       Yarman.1@osu.edu
         I am studying soc.motss for my dissertation.
         For more information, please send me e-mail.
From: owen@autodesk.com (D. Owen Rowley)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: Private antidiscrimination policies in CO (was Re: Attention...)
Date: 4 Jan 93 20:04:08 GMT

In article <1993Jan2.134545.15286@macc.wisc.edu>, anderson@macc.wisc.edu (Jess Anderson) writes:
> But really, that should not be neceesary.  A homophobe is
> a homophobe, whether from malevolence or from ignorance;
> the end result for us is the same, either way.  

When you reduce a person who has exhibited ignorance or active bigotry to
*being a homophobe*, you join the ranks of those who reduce us
*to being a pervert* for who we screw. Yes the result is the same, the 
circle of ignorance is spread wider in each case. I really dislike this
non-word homophob(e,ia), it is too often weilded by those without the
capacity to argue the specific issues, used as a retaliatory ploy
instead of a usefull argument.

The fear of homosexuality and homosexually oriented people is
institutionalised into our social reality. This is due to cultural taboos
against intimate contact between individuals of the same gender, exported
to our western culture from the Yahweh cults.

The fear that strayt folks feel about us is very real to them, and
backed up by generations of ignorance and mis-information. They are not
responsible for the underlying social reality, and the traditional
invisibility of queers and the queer subculture does litle to foster
a new social paradigm which dispells the ignorance.

Those fears kept me from facing and dealing with my own queerness for 35
years. Those fears often manifested in my own behavior.

> Your friend is a fine example.  Anyone who says "give me a
> break" should be slapped hard right across the face, without
> hesitation.  Anyone who says "that's reaching for straws"
> deserves a very rude shock.

these are coloquialisms ?
I fail to understand how such common place phrases should be countered
by physical assault, even when they are engendered by willful ignorance
nevermind socially prevelant misunderstandings?

> Your friend, Walter, Cramer, and everyone like them are just
> plain bigots, and I think making finer distinctions than
> that is not very sensible.  There may be shades of bigotry,
> people who are more easily awakened than others, but your
> friend is as much a murderer of suicided teens, a tormenter
> of closeted priests, a harasser of lesbian teachers, a
> taunter of bisexual classmates, etc., as the most virulent
> neo-nazi or religious bigot is.  The differences, if present,
> don't mean a damn thing at the bottom line: these people
> are *all* oppressors.

We are primates, this is the way of our species, therefore we are all
capable of oppressing someone.

I agree that when you are the recipient of the oppression, the social
factors don't offer any respite from the pain that has been inflicted.

But honestly the kind of rhetoric that equates clueless strayts with
murderers of teens who commit suicide turns me away from the rest of your
argument.


LUX ./. owen

--
D. Owen Rowley {uunet,fernwood,sun}!autodesk!owen

  " It will be a cold March 17th that I celebrate the imposition of
	Romes rule, on Pagan Ireland. Erin go ppphhhhhttttttt! "
From: pfieland@citron.sw.stratus.com (Peggy Fieland)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: Changing standards of female beauty (Is: the empowerment of women)
Date: 5 Jan 1993 15:22:39 GMT
Organization: Stratus Computer, Software Engineering
NNTP-Posting-Host: citron.sw.stratus.com

In article <18277@autodesk.COM> mickw@autodesk.com (Mick Washbrook) writes:
>
>What do ya think about high heels (on women, that is)?
>

Well, I think that they can look very sexy on the right woman.

Personally, however, I feel that they rank right up there with stockings
and garter belts as symbols of torture and oppression.  Oh, my aching
bunions!

Peggy



Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: swc@fig.citib.com (Steve Carpenter)
Subject: Places in Paris
Originator: swc@swcdev
Organization: Citibank IBISM
Date: Tue, 5 Jan 1993 17:44:31 GMT


Does anyone have suggestions on where to stay in the Marais?  Also interested
in where the good leather places are.  Any info appreciated!

Thanks!!

-- 

Steve Carpenter                                  
5 Jane St.  New York, NY  10014-1934
(212) 691-8547                                  CIS: 70313,122
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: thaaang@cwis.unomaha.edu (John Dorrance)
Subject: Re: Is Dan Quayle a Twinkie?
Organization: University of Nebraska at Omaha
Date: Tue, 12 Jan 1993 14:58:56 GMT

As both a twink and a male bimbo, I object to the implications of
this thread.

--
thaaang@cwis.unomaha.edu * John Dorrance * Disco Diva y Flamenco Chico
      You would be surprised at what resides in your insides.
	  S7/9 g++l+(+)y++z++/--(++!!!)o+(+)x+a++uv(++)j+
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: glp@fig.citib.com (Greg Parkinson)
Subject: Re: Changing standards of female beauty
Originator: glp@merlin
Organization: Citibank IBISM
Date: Tue, 5 Jan 1993 15:21:44 GMT


In article <72894@cup.portal.com>, Furr@cup.portal.com (George Dalton Madison) writes:
|> Greg Parkinson writes:
|> >Let's be fair here.  Some of us have skin which 
|> >doesn't respond well to cold dry air, so in the
|> >winter we use moisturizing creams.
|> 
|> Of course, it's *water* that moisturizes skin, not oils...

But that water needs to be sealed in when you're
living in sub-zero weather, and the skin's oils
(*my* skin's oils, at least) are not up to the
task.  Your suggestion about re-moisturizing
is good, but it might not stand up to strong
freezing winds in the face, sucking the moisture
from every pore.

-- 
Greg Parkinson                  Phone: 212-657-7814  Fax: 212-825-8607
Citibank,111 Wall Street        E-Mail: glp@fig.citib.com
New York, New York  10043
The opinions expressed are my own and not those of the big 'ol bank.
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: elle@kimbark.uchicago.edu (Ellen Keyne Seebacher)
Subject: Re: HEY WOMYN!!!  Favorite Womyn's Perfume choices..
Reply-To: elle@midway.uchicago.edu
Organization: University of Chicago
Date: Thu, 7 Jan 1993 01:36:47 GMT

In article <1993Jan6.171404.2578@ultb.isc.rit.edu> 
 kjc7435@ultb.isc.rit.edu (K.J. Cater) writes:
>Hey---what about us womyn???   What is YOUR favorite perfume on a womon?

None at all.

>(ladies answer only please!!).

Oops.  Sorry.

--                    __
Ellen Keyne Seebacher \/             elle@midway.uchicago.edu
From: dyer@spdcc.com (Steve Dyer)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: tearoom sex and bathroom police
Date: 13 Jan 93 04:21:43 GMT
Article-I.D.: spdcc.1993Jan13.042143.19633
Distribution: soc
Organization: S.P. Dyer Computer Consulting, Cambridge MA

In article <TIM.93Jan12190814@ear-ache.mit.edu> tim@ear-ache.mit.edu (Tim Wilson) writes:
>I think the key word above is "inconvenienced."  In my book, being
>cruised by someone you don't want to be cruised by is inconvenience,
>not harassment, regardless of where it occurs.  I'm not going to lie
>and say I've never felt inconvenienced by unsolicited advances.  But
>is that the same thing as harassment?  Is being cruised in a bathroom,
>is knowing that people are in there having sex right now, even as
>you're trying to pee, really anywhere near the same thing as receiving
>death threats from an ex-lover, or fearing for your grades (or job)
>due to the unwelcomed advances of a professor (or boss)?  

Of course not, but that doesn't mean that it's welcome.  I think it's
basically a form of public rudeness.  My point is that it isn't too far
fetched to think people might complain, and I don't think they're being
out of line to complain, and it isn't necessarily evidence of homophobia.
The wonder is why complaints don't happen more often than they do.

>Given restrooms used by both sexes, what if *one* restroom out of many
>evolved into a space where horny men and women often met and played?
>And, there was fairly common knowledge throughout the community that
>such was often the role of said restroom?  And that such use had been
>occuring for numerous years?  That's more analogous to the situation
>occuring here.  Given the modified scenario, I would imagine that some
>women and some men would object.  A few might be because they'd been
>inconvenienced, but more probably because others were enjoying
>themselves. 

In yer dreams.  Of course, the base assumption (shared restrooms)
is no less preposterous.

-- 
Steve Dyer
dyer@ursa-major.spdcc.com aka {ima,harvard,rayssd,linus,m2c}!spdcc!dyer
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: mara@panix.com (Mara Chibnik)
Subject: Re: Should I be doing this?
Organization: (getting there)
Date: Tue, 12 Jan 1993 11:29:57 GMT

dauber@tattoo.mti.sgi.com (Jeff Dauber) pays me the nicest
compliment I've ever had:

 >Mara is a queer....
 >She just isn't homosexual.

And here I thought I was so conventional.

(Which reminds me that I haven't heard from Ro Reid in a while.)


-- 

  Mara Chibnik
  mara@panix.com                Life is too important to be taken seriously.

From: mattg@hpcupt1.cup.hp.com (Matthew Gormley)
Date: Fri, 8 Jan 1993 20:49:50 GMT
Subject: Re: REQUEST: MOW Update & # for Official Travel Agents
Organization: Hewlett Packard, Cupertino
Newsgroups: soc.motss

The numbers for accomodations for the March are:

DC Accomodations (for hotel accomodations): (800) 554-2220
March On Washinton Information Hotline:     (800) 832-2889

Apparently there are quite a few rooms still available, but I wouldn't
wait too long.  Also, the hotels closest to DuPont Circle are already
booked.  From my foray into room hunting, I found that the rooms are
running around $120 a night and up in the DC area itself.  They are
expecting 1 million people to show up this year.

Matt
From: anderson@macc.wisc.edu (Jess Anderson)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: penis size
Date: 7 Jan 93 21:19:35 GMT
Organization: Madison Academic Computing Center, UW-Madison

In article <1993Jan7.201518.15318@PacBell.COM>
rjwill6@PacBell.COM (Rod Williams) writes:

>> portuesi@tweezers.esd.sgi.com (Michael Portuesi) writes:
>>> joe@spdcc.com writes:
>>> Entire bars become silent if I walk in wearing lycra shorts
>>> with a big fat hardon snaking down the leg.

>>I simply MUST go to Paris and visit again sometime.

>I'm still trying to figure out how a big fat hardon
>could be described as *snaking* -- unless of course
>there's a rattle attached...

I wondered about that too, then decided it was a simple
typo; he must have meant to write "flaunting." :-)

-- 
[Jess Anderson <> Madison Academic Computing Center <> University of Wisconsin]
[Internet: anderson@macc.wisc.edu <-best, UUCP:{}!uwvax!macc.wisc.edu!anderson]
[Room 3130 <> 1210 West Dayton Street / Madison WI 53706 <> Phone 608/262-5888]
[---------> Discrimination, Bigotry, and Hate are not Family Values <---------]
From: joe@spdcc.com (Joseph Francis)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: Nominations for best Men's cologne
Date: 6 Jan 93 10:48:54 GMT
Article-I.D.: spdcc.1993Jan6.104854.5150
Organization: S.P. Dyer Computer Consulting, Cambridge MA

In article <1icjndINN1pl@mizar.usc.edu> adolphso@mizar.usc.edu (adolphson) writes:
>In article <1993Jan5.173732.12576@spdcc.com> 
>joe@spdcc.com (Joseph Francis) writes:
>
>> The best men's scent I've ever smelled, hands down, is Jicky by
>> Guerlin.
>
>Gee whiz!  Not five minutes ago I posted that *my* favorite
>men's scent is Jicky.
>
>> You can't find it in the US beside other mass-produced
>> scents, though it might now be distributed. 
>
>It's available in the US only at Guerlain boutiques.  In
>metropolitan LA, with a population approaching 12 million 
>people, Jicky is to be found only at the Guerlain boutique
>at the beautiful Bullock's Wilshire.

I used to love wandering through the store. I'm surprised they have
Guerlain boutiques! Now if I can remember the english scents.

I an't say how surprised I am that we both have the same favorite
scent. It isn't at all an easy scent to know. 

We should now start talking about glasses frames and men's shoes.
That'll drive them up the wall. Or better, women's shoes. 


-- 
US Jojo; damp, slighly soiled, but tasty nonetheless.
From: gklein@uoft02.utoledo.edu (Gary Klein, bear-at-heart)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: Nominations for best Men's cologne
Date: 9 Jan 93 16:10:14 EST
Organization: Univ of Toledo

In article <thom.726338481@digex>, thom@access.digex.com (The Elf-Lad) writes:
> Or I'll just take real vanilla extract. Yum.

     At various times, I have also used Lemon extract, Orange extract, and 
Almond extract.  No fancy bottle, no glitzy service counter, and available at
most any grocery store on earth!

     Prices though may not be as inexpensive as one might hope, but certainly
more affordable than Eau de Fort Knox.

     Besides, you shouldn't be drinking the stuff.  You use it by the dab, not
by the ounce!

MY MOST HORRENDOUS fragrance experience:
     Birthday party for a gay man, with over 40 men at the party.  After a
while, several of us left and reconvened at a bar across town.  While driving
in my car, I started noticing the STRONG odor, more like a stench, of cologne. 
But I did not put any on that night!

     "Who was wearing so much cologne that it rubbed off onto me while giving
goodby hugs?"

     When I got to the bar, and started chatting with some of the guys who made
it over from the party, I noticed the same fragrance in the air (somewhat
difficult to achieve under the smoke laden atomosphere of this particular
bar).  Conversation came around as to "what fragrance are you wearing", when we
all realized, that we were all smelling the SAME fragrance, which NONE of us
had put on.  We all picked up the scent from one particular man who must have
poured cologne over his sweater, before giving his goodbye hugs.

     And some people think that the magazine inserts are a problem?  If you are
headed for the Toledo area & have severe allergies to colognes, give me a buzz,
and I'll tell you the name of the person who obviously soaks his body in it.

     He really is a nice guy, but obviously, he is olfactorily challenged!

-- 

"Not your average Leathered Librarian"
      * * * *          Gary Klein,   Business Librarian,   Univ of Toledo
       *   *                     P.O.Box 12650 / Toledo OH 43606
        * *            WORK:   419-537-2629            HOME: 419-243-2740
         *             BITNET: fac2813@uoft01           FAX: 419-537-2726
  B4 t+ w- g s+ k              INTERNET: fac2813@uoft01.utoledo.edu
From: jns@elea.umd.edu (J. N. Shaumeyer)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: taking over
Date: 5 Jan 93 23:25:50 GMT
Organization: Militant Homosexual Lobby, Gay Lifestyles, Inc.


Expatriot Bob Sarver (bobsarv@microsoft.com) suggests:
 
> I was just wondering:  has anyone written a FAQ on Cramer's 
> assertions?  It would seem like a logical thing to do.
> 
> With a FAQ, any argument he posted could be rebutted by referring 
> the reader to Response #4 (or whatever) of the Cramer FAQ.

I suggest that you begin responding strictly in the manner
you suggest ["Response #4 + Corollary #12..."], but that
it's a waste of time to write a CC-Rebuttal FAQ.  In fact,
I think the result would be improved if there *were* no
CC-Rebuttal FAQ.  Instead, everyone's merely referring to
it [matter-of-FAQly] when CC is unable to locate said item
may cause him to disappear in a puff of delusional paranoia.
Just ask any cabal member [if you can find one].

While we're at it, I suggest that it's time to implement
Phase C of the Secret Homosexual Agenda to Take Over 
America [*].  The code words: Kiss a Queer for America.

--jns

[*] Why anyone would think we'd even *want* it is beyond me.
Newsgroups: soc.motss