HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: spb0457@venus.tamu.edu (SubGenius)
Subject: Re: Laurence Sterne's _Tristram Shandy_
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41    
Keywords:  That's all they think about:  "Is it too big?  Is it too small?"
Organization: Texas A&M University, Academic Computing Services
Date: Sun, 27 Sep 1992 22:51:00 GMT

Fiona Webster writes...
>Vance Maverick writes:
>>Did you see the black page? (Donald Barthelme picked up on this.)
> 
>Not only did I see it, I tried to make a few more of my own!  
> 
>_Tristam_Shandy_ bears the dubious honor of being the only book
>I have ever spilled an *entire* ink bottle onto.  It was strange,
>too: the ink seemed to leap, to move of its own accord.  Perhaps it
>was drawn by the mysterious electromagnetic forces that surround every
>copy of _Tristam_Shandy_.  Does anyone know the latest on the
>research into these phenomena?  The last I heard, some famous physicist
>had taken an interest in the problem..but I didn't hear much about
>what she was theorizing.
> 
>							--Fiona

+---------------------------------------SubG-------------------------------+
Perhaps you should spend a few quite moments with any copies of the
Everyman's Library printing you wander into--some addlepated typesetter
has sent the entire black page to cower in the lower fraction of another
page.  Alas, poor Yorick, indeed.

On the other hand, the edition in question does give nearly an inch and
a half to the gesture with the staff, instead of the more traditional
centimetre or so.








Yours etc.,




SubGenius
From: rjking@acsu.buffalo.edu (Randall J. King)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
Subject: Looking for this book, can anyone help?
Date: 30 Sep 92 18:05:15 GMT
Organization: UB

The book is _Webs_ by Scott Baker.  It was just taken out of print recently
(sorry I forgot the publisher).  Does anyone have any good ideas on how to
get it?  The publisher hasn't got it in stock anymore.

Thanks...
Randall King                rjking@acsu.buffalo.edu		<-Unix
University of Buffalo       v050qrq3@ubvms.cc.buffalo.edu	<-VAX-Personal
Buffalo, NY      	    acscrjk@ubvms.cc.buffalo.edu	<-VAX-Work
**           All opinions are my own, unless otherwise stated               **
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
From: entpph@ritvax.isc.rit.edu
Subject: Re: Stormin' Norman (was: Re: She's baaaaack.....Camille Paglia)
Reply-To: entpph@ritvax.isc.rit.edu
Organization: Rochester Institute of Technology
Date: Tue, 29 Sep 1992 22:47:33 GMT

Norman Mailer's drunken behavior is not acceptable to me
nor any other male that I know.  He is not seen affectionately
as a wild man.  He is seen as the dangerous lunatic that he was
at the time of those incidents.  I no of no "general opinion"
sanctioning such behavior from anyone.

Erik Timmerman
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
From: fehr@ms.uky.edu (Jeff Davis)
Subject: Re: r.a.b. threads on late night talk shows.
Date: Fri, 2 Oct 1992 18:03:13 GMT
Organization: Austerlitz, Gershovitz, and Carmichael

Mark Taranto writes:
>
>I think it [Night After Night w/ Alan Havey] is the best talk show
>on TV, and recommend it to those of you who get the network.  Of course
>the only one I know who gets it is Jeff Davis.  I know this, because he
>claims to post from The Gizmonic Institute (taken from another Comedy
>Central show).
> 
I am no longer with the Gizmonic Institute. My term was commuted.
-- 
Jeff Davis <davis@keats.ca.uky.edu>
From: klein@frith.egr.msu.edu (Jeffrey Klein)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
Subject: James Branch Cabell
Date: 1 Oct 92 14:39:25 GMT
Organization: Michigan State University College of Stunt Piloting


  Last weekend I picked up Cabell's FIGURES OF EARTH in the library --
I tried to get through it, but it wasn't really engaging so I ended
up skimming the second half.  Does anyone have a suggestion as to
which Cabell book I might like to read next?

-- 
Jeff Klein             | "Happily, Ral doffs his outer clothing for a
Browsing Boy of the LNH|  refreshing dip in one of the dangerous 
klein@frith.egr.msu.edu|  chemical vats." - Ty Templeton 
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
From: ve3pak@micor.ocunix.on.ca (Alayne McGregor and Brett Delmage)
Subject: Re: Buchan (was: Re: RE: Poll: The Greatest Adventure Story Ever
Organization: M.B. Cormier INC., Orleans (Ont)
Date: Wed, 30 Sep 1992 20:46:22 GMT

In article <jyc.717802177@Leland> jyc@leo.Stanford.EDU (Jon Corelis) writes:
>  I'd rather excuse myself from quoting chapter and verse here because
>1) I don't have the book to hand, 2) if I wait until I simultaneously
>have it and remember to post a follow-up it might never happen, and 3)
>Buchan being a minority taste probably not many people here will find
>it of great interest.  Also 4) I probably wouldn't convince you
>anyway!  So I'll just say that I recall Hannay making approving remarks
>about even the proto-Fascist von Stumm's temperance and courage, and
>that there were other remarks which seemed to me at least to indicate
>mixed feelings towards the whole notion of German culture.

Most of Buchan's post-WWI thrillers (at least those set in modern times)
featured villains who were more Fascist than Communist (for example,
The Courts of the Morning). I think the Greenmantle incident you mention
is simply the public-school code admiration of someone who acts
according to the code.

One has to read Buchan in the context of where he came from. Not all
his beliefs are what we would consider PC today. Nevertheless, he was
a tireless campaigner (in his books and in real life) for democracy and
dignity for all.

BTW, I would consider _The 39 Steps_ one of the weakest of Buchan's
thrillers. Mr. Standfast, The Courts of the Morning, Huntingtower,
Castle Gay, or The Power House are all much better.

Alayne McGregor
alayne@ve3pak.ocunix.on.ca
From: fuller@athena.cs.uga.edu (James P. H. Fuller)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
Subject: Re: James Branch Cabell
Date: 2 Oct 92 14:26:14 GMT
Organization: University of Georgia, Athens

klein@frith.egr.msu.edu (Jeffrey Klein) writes:

>up skimming the second half.  Does anyone have a suggestion as to
>which Cabell book I might like to read next?

     _Chivalry_.  Short stories, set in the middle ages.

                                                -- jf
From: skitchen@pilot.njin.net (Not your average USENET junkie...)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
Subject: Re: Identification of author of a quotation
Date: 2 Oct 92 01:47:38 GMT
Organization: Rutgers Univ., New Brunswick, N.J.

In article <1992Sep15.171359.1866@riacs.edu> shafer@pioneer.arc.nasa.gov (Mary Shafer OFA) writes:

> rsquires@cyclops.eece.unm.edu (Roger Squires) writes:
> 
> >In article <1992Sep15.022709.27349@riacs.edu> shafer@pioneer.arc.nasa.gov (Mary Shafer OFA) writes:

(cool quotation found...onto other themes)

> >Oxford Dictionary of Quotations, Copyright 1991 Oxford Univ. Press
> 
> Oh, great.  Now I've got _two_ superseded Oxford Dictionaries of
> Quotations, and not just one.  How have they marked this one?  Its
> predecessor was "The New Edition" (about 1985, or so).  Is this "The
> Newer Edition"?

Well, there might be yet another superseded addition.  I made the
mistake ... all right, maybe it wasn't a mistake, merely an expensive
trip to the bookstore ... anyway, there's a _new_ hardcover edition of
_The Oxford Dictionary of Quotations_ from Oxford University Press,
copyright 1992 (ISBN 0-19-866185-1).  I'll answer anyone else's
questions if you want...

> 
> Thanks for the pointer to the online dictionary; it sounds like a
> great service and I'm sure I'll use it, but it can never replace the
> joys of browsing through the bound volume picking out serendipitious
> nuggets.

I had no idea such a service was even offered.  I'll have to do some
browsing later tonight, I guess.

And FYI, I spent $110 on quotation books alone at Barnes & Noble --
16th edition of Bartlett's, 4th edition of Oxford, and the MacMillan
Dictionary of Quotations (edition unknown).
-- 
Scott Kitchen  |  Net.handsome.lug  |  ICBM: 40.88 N  74.56 W
------------------------------------------------------------------
Don't wrestle a pig in a mud hole.  You both get all dirty, and the
pig enjoys it.
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
From: levine@symcom.math.uiuc.edu (Lenore Levine)
Subject: Re: She's baaaaack.....Camille Paglia
Organization: University of Illinois at Urbana
Date: Mon, 28 Sep 1992 23:19:10 GMT

mnemonic@eff.org (Mike Godwin) writes:

>In article <Bv6u72.574@news.cso.uiuc.edu> levine@symcom.math.uiuc.edu (Lenore Levine) writes:

>>There is a difference between a curmudgeon and a creep. And I
>>think Ms. Paglia crossed the line with some of her statements on
>>date rape. In particular, she was saying something to the effect that 
>>rape is not a big tragedy that will ruin a woman's life. 
>>
>>May have been true, in many cases. But now there's the risk of AIDS...

>You're misreading Paglia. She's not talking about STDs. She's talking
>about the common myth that the experience of rape is so deeply terrible
>that any woman who claims to have recovered from the experience must
>be in denial.

>This is no doubt true for some rape victims. But there's a certain type of
>authoritarian rape theorist who insists that this must be true for *all*
>rape victims. That's what Paglia, rightly or wrongly, is railing against.

>--Mike

I agree with what you say her point is -- the experience of rape is 
not necessarily so deeply terrible, that it will ruin a woman's life.

But I think, in these times, it must be much more terrible than it
was before AIDS. At the very least you have to worry for six months if
you caught it or not. At worst...

I think, therefore, that in 1992, it is extremely insensitive to lambaste
rape theorists, without making it *very* clear exactly what you are 
lambasting, and why.  

>-- 
>Mike Godwin,    |"The meeting of two personalities is like the contact 
>mnemonic@eff.org| of two chemical substances: if there is any reaction, 
>(617) 864-0665  | both are transformed."
>EFF, Cambridge  |                           --Carl Jung
From: lgs57@cas.org ()
Subject: Pagans and Christians-Robin Lane Fox
Organization: Chemical Abstracts Service, Columbus, Ohio
Distribution: world,local
Date: Mon, 5 Oct 1992 19:41:37 GMT

I just finished Pagans and Christians by Robin Lane Fox-all 681 pages.  The
information about sibyls was fascinating.  I also found the interplay between
the pagan religions and the civic life of the town interesting.  The role of
Jews in Roman towns is also covered.  The story of the early Christian church
(up to the time of Constantine) explains many of the peculiarities of the
current church.  Divorce was treated casually by the pagans but not by the
Christians.  Also, Fox explains the role of bishops and how they evolved.
Overall, it is a wonderful book but difficult to read and somewhat
academic.

Has anyone else read this?  What did you think?  Any suggestions for
additional reading on the early Christian church? Pagan religions between
100-400 AD?

These are my own personal opinions and not those of my employer.
Current books: House of Getty and Contamination (A Star Trek:The Next
Generation Novel)
From: miner@kuhub.cc.ukans.edu
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
Subject: Golding's _The Spire_ query
Date: 25 Sep 92 22:11:10 CDT
Organization: University of Kansas Academic Computing Services

Some time ago I read William Golding's _The Spire_.  I want to re-read
it but I've been told, or read somewhere, that to really grasp what
he's doing you need a knowledge of cathedral architecture.

Does anyone know of a good exegesis of this work?

********************************** +.............................+
*- Ken <miner@kuhub.cc.ukans.edu>* :All opinions expressed herein:
*There is no privileged position.* :are my own and are not to be :
*	-God, Derrida, others    * : attributed to my employer   :
********************************** +.............................+

Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
From: baker@Xenon.Stanford.EDU (Andrew Baker)
Subject: Re: Request: worthwhile bios of JFK and RFK
Keywords: Kennedy biography JFK RFK
Organization: Computer Science Department, Stanford University.
Distribution: usa
Date: Tue, 29 Sep 1992 06:39:22 GMT

In article <12534@optilink.UUCP> cramer@optilink.UUCP (Clayton Cramer) writes:
>In article <1992Sep26.232109.27003@u.washington.edu>, twain@milton.u.washington.edu (Barbara Hlavin) writes:
>> In article <12491@optilink.UUCP> cramer@optilink.UUCP (Clayton Cramer) writes:
>> >In article <BuzK7H.CLr@news.cso.uiuc.edu>, wade@osiris.cso.uiuc.edu (S.Wade) writes:
># ##   Can someone recommend worthwhile biographies of
># ##   John F. Kennedy and Robert F. Kennedy? 
># ## 
># ##   I want to avoid the fawning bios that view them as
># ##   flawless heroes.  I also want to avoid the books
># ##   that are just scandal rags.  Are there any
                 ----
># ##   books about them that stand out above the rest?
># #
># #Any biography of JFK that isn't a "scandal rag" isn't a worthwhile
                                    -
># #biography of him.
># 
># That's a crude and stupid dismissal of any complex human being, 
># much less one who has had such an impact on world history. 
># 
># --Barbara 
>
>If you write a biography of a person of low personal morals, and
>leave out those little details ...

Speaker 1 wanted to avoid something that was *just* a scandal rag.
Speaker 2 says that a worthwhile biography must be (presumably among
other things) *a* scandal rag.  So there is no contradiction.

Not that it has anything to do with anything, but ... did Kennedy
know about the planned attack on Cuba before he was elected??  I
saw a snippet of a PBS show on Kennedy that stated in a matter of
fact way that the plans came as a surprise to him when he took over.
On the other hand, Nixon in his old book _Six Crises_ claims that
Kennedy was in fact briefed on the plans during the campaign.  So
mirror, mirror on the wall, out of Kennedy and Nixon, who is the
biggest liar of them all?

Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
From: tmaddox@netcom.com (Tom Maddox)
Subject: Re: More Notes from the Decline
Organization: Netcom Online Communications Services (408-241-9760 login: guest)
Date: Tue, 6 Oct 1992 20:32:07 GMT

In article <1992Oct6.171038.24333@athena.mit.edu> kamorgan@athena.mit.edu (Keith Morgan) writes:
>Mike Morris [. . .] asservates that Republicans don't read.

>To which I reply: piffle and twaddle.

	I for one trust that Mr. Morgan stands corrected:  Republicans read
piffle and twaddle.


-- 
				Tom Maddox
		    	    tmaddox@netcom.com
		"The Reptoids eat humans like we eat chickens."
				Alex Alexander
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
From: hhenderson@vax.clarku.edu
Subject: RE: Attractiveness (was: Re: She's baaaaack.....Camille Paglia)
Organization: Clark University
Date: 5 OCT 92 02:58:02 GMT

Mark T. writes:

>I'm sure that if Heather continues to post, she will eventually
>be called some name, also.  And it will likely be a little more harsh
>than "scum" or "intellectual vampire bitch."

Don't worry about it.  No epithets invented by any of you r.a.b.bits
will come close to what I was called by the Red Sox fans on rec.sport.baseball
when I told them to quit whining about the 1986 World Series and admit
that the Mets deserved to win.

Which leads me to the question, if the Ayatollah Khomeini was a Red Sox
fan, would he have issued a fatwa about Bill Buckner?  Just asking.

Heather
HHENDERSON@vax.clarku.edu
From: ncramer@bbn.com (Nichael Cramer)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
Subject: Re: Exit Shakespeare....
Date: 1 Oct 92 19:34:15 GMT
Article-I.D.: news.lcmklnINNnut
Reply-To: ncramer@labs-n.bbn.com (Nichael Cramer)
Organization: Bolt Beranek and Newman Inc., Interzone Office
NNTP-Posting-Host: bbn.com

fehr@ms.uky.edu (Jeff Davis) ask:
> [Who would have been our Shakespeare if WS had died young?]
> [What would have named all those books that used WSian allusions?]

Great questions!

Just imagine if, in addition, King James had had to deal with his version
of the NEA: a 25 pg Barlett's!

For the historians out there: Who, for that matter, was Shakespeare's
Shakespeare?  Homer?  Virgil?  (Surely not, say, Chaucer.)

N
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
From: jyc@leo.Stanford.EDU (Jon Corelis)
Subject: Re: Stormin' Norman (was: Re: She's baaaaack.....Camille Paglia)
Organization: DSO, Stanford University
Date: 29 Sep 92 17:52:48 GMT


   Mailer's a son of a bitch, but he's an interesting, literate son of a
bitch.

   Someone here recently made the preposterous suggestion that a certain
person whose name I'm tired of mentioning might be the contemporary
American version of Nietzsche.  The statment might actually be true in a
sense of Mailer.  If you put Nietzsche in modern America, changed his
passionate commitment to moral honesty about power into a passionate
commitment to moral honesty about sex, and took away his classical
education, the result might be something like Mailer.   
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
From: starr@genie.slhs.udel.edu (Tim Starr)
Subject: Re: She's baaaaack.....Camille Paglia
Organization: UDel, School of Life & Health Sciences
Date: Mon, 5 Oct 1992 01:59:38 GMT

In article <JMC.92Oct3003417@SAIL.Stanford.EDU> jmc@cs.Stanford.EDU writes:
}Speaking of attractiveness getting one jobs, someone remarked shortly
}before most of the American railroads went bankrupt that almost all
}railroad company presidents were over six feet tall.

And most US Presidents have been tall, too.  Tall candidates tend to win out
over short ones historically.

I'm interested in criticism of the "social-constructionist" methodology that
Paglia has brought to my attention.  If this isn't the correct forum for
this, what is?

What is the definition of this, denotatively?  I've got a connotative grasp,
but not much, of it, but I'd like to know more.  How did it evolve?  What
are the basic positions related to it, and who are the scholars mainly
associated with it?


Tim Starr - Renaissance Now! - Think Universally, Act Selfishly
starr@genie.slhs.udel.edu

"True greatness consists in the use of a powerful understanding to enlighten
oneself and others." - Voltaire
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
From: jyc@leo.Stanford.EDU (Jon Corelis)
Subject: Re: Buchan (was: Re: RE: Poll: The Greatest Adventure Story Ever
Organization: DSO, Stanford University
Date: 29 Sep 92 21:29:37 GMT

hhenderson@vax.clarku.edu writes:

>Well, I went back and read "Greenmantle" to see if there was anything
>I might have missed, and I really don't detect an "underlying
>ambivalence", or any attitude of Hannay's that indicates he would
>sympathize with this "will-to-power strain" that you mention.
>Do you think you could refer to specific examples in the text?



  I'd rather excuse myself from quoting chapter and verse here because
1) I don't have the book to hand, 2) if I wait until I simultaneously
have it and remember to post a follow-up it might never happen, and 3)
Buchan being a minority taste probably not many people here will find
it of great interest.  Also 4) I probably wouldn't convince you
anyway!  So I'll just say that I recall Hannay making approving remarks
about even the proto-Fascist von Stumm's temperance and courage, and
that there were other remarks which seemed to me at least to indicate
mixed feelings towards the whole notion of German culture.

   Buchan's own expressed opinion in the pre-World War II period
incidentally were that civilization was threatened by, in order of
increasing danger, Fascism, Communism, and Anarchism.  I guess we can
each make of that what we will.  

   I'd also rather not dwell on what is really a very minor point of
disgreement between us, since like you I do admire Buchan's
story-telling and I'd don't think either of us would want to put people
off reading him.  I certainly don't want to imply any sort of political
litmus test for the enjoyment of fiction, and I'd encourage anyone who
likes adventure and espionage to read him, though perhaps with the
caution that popular literature from that age is bound to be liable to
occasional obsolete ethnic characterizations.

   I recently came across a book on Buchan which included several
pictures of him.  He seemed to be a fair, wiry, square-jawed sort of
bloke -- in other words, the image of Dick Hannay!  
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
From: cb@tamarack13.timbuk (Chris Brewster)
Subject: Re: Native American Indian novels
In-reply-to: kamorgan@athena.mit.edu's message of Tue, 6 Oct 1992 17:32:00 GMT
Organization: pubs
Distribution: usa
Date: 6 Oct 92 14:37:19 CDT


Someone mentioned "The Education of Little Tree" on this thread.  The NY
Times had an article about an apparent fraud surrounding this book.  It
turns out the author is a very strange sort of person whose background
includes Klan activities and other bigotry and isn't at all what you
assume about the author of the book.  Many admirers of the book simply
refuse to believe that this guy is the author, but it appears to be
true.  Further info appreciated.

Chris Brewster
cb@cray.com

Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
From: mtaranto@shearson.com (Mark Taranto)
Subject: Re: She's baaaaack.....Camille Paglia
Organization: Yale CS Mail/News Gateway
Date: Mon, 5 Oct 1992 01:21:23 GMT


mnemonic@eff.org (Mike Godwin) writes:
 
> I suppose it doesn't help anything, Mark, if I tell you that I too am a
> dyed-in-the-wool Madonna fan?
 
It is quite alright.  I know enough about Mike to know that it is worthwhile
wading through the shit to get to the good parts.
 
If, when I had met Mike, he had started off talking about Madonna or Camille
Paglia, I might have squirmed, and told him that I had to run off to Brooks
Brothers to get fitted for a new suit.  Instead, he just wanted to gossip
about Francis, so I knew he was alright.
 
> By the way, this business of browsing through books *from the
> beginning*--Mark, you've got to get over that.
 
I hate to spoil the surprise ending.
 
Mark
From: jkearman@arrl.org (Jim Kearman)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
Subject: SUBSCRIBE, PLEASE
Date: 24 Sep 92 14:24:34 EDT
Organization: American Radio Relay League

SUBSCRIBE
From: bsmith@hplvec.LVLD.HP.COM (Brian Smith)
Date: Thu, 1 Oct 1992 23:02:58 GMT
Subject: Re: Books as decoration?
Organization: Hewlett-Packard Co., Loveland, CO
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books

I recently borrowed from the local library a translation of a book
by Anatole France about penquins that were transformed into
men (dammed if I can remember the title--salinity must be setting
in).  It had been stamped about 10 times before I got it.  I found
some uncut pages at about page 40.  I wonder what those other ten
readers were expecting?
B.S!

Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
From: westphal@iscnvx.lmsc.lockheed.com (Dorothy Westphal)
Subject: Re: lit quiz
Keywords: duo character style
Organization: Lockheed Missiles and Space Co.
Distribution: usa
Date: Thu, 1 Oct 92 21:42:44 GMT

In article <7150@tekig7.PEN.TEK.COM> rbeville@tekig5.pen.tek.com (Robert E Beville) writes:
>
>	Any lit student in r.a.b. want to try these questions....
>
>	Why is the name of the literary? plot? style, in western
>	literature of the Holmes-Watson type of story.  Where the

WHY? Why WHY?

>	main guy has a side-kick who asks those questions that lead
>	to  the furtherment of the plot or exposition.  These duos
>	are in the comics, showbiz, movies, TV...
>	Batman-Robin, Abbott-Costello, Rowan-Martin, Martin-Lewis,
>	Roy-Gabby, Gene-Pat, Hopalong-Cisco, LR-Tonto, Green Hornet-Cato.

                             Cisco-Pancho?
    
>	best regards, rbeville@tekig5.PEN.TEK.COM
>	Bob Beville, Tektronix, Inc., Beaverton, OR 97077


-- 
Dorothy Westphal, Sunnyvale, Calif. % Just when things are going your way...%
westphal@iscnvx.lmsc.lockheed.com   %               they get even better!   %
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
From: fi@grebyn.com (Fiona Webster)
Subject: Re: Laurence Sterne's _Tristram Shandy_
Organization: Grebyn Timesharing
Date: Tue, 29 Sep 1992 13:25:09 GMT

SubGenius writes:
>But candor insists that I point out that although I mentioned the Everyman's
>Library edition that should not be taken to imply that that was either the
>only edition I am familiar with or the only edition I own, any more than
>quoting from the Burton Raffel translation of _Gargantua_ or _Pantagruel_
>implies that I'm unfamiliar with the Urqhardt (sp?) or Coen translations.

"Candor insists..."  I like that.  :-)

							--Fiona
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books