HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: e.d.wardini@easteur-orient.uio.no (Elie Dib Wardini) (Elie Dib Wardini)
Subject: Syrian occupation of Lebanon
Organization: UiO
Date: Thu, 15 Oct 1992 10:06:35 GMT

 

I made the mistake once to call the Israeli invasion of Lebanon an
"intervention" in order to get rid of the PLO and its armed forces in Lebanon.

I have long since realized my mistake, and call it not other than occupation.

It is high time many of our good brothers on this net, and maybe those not on
the net, tell us what their attitude is to the Syrian occupation of Lebanon?

Do they really expect that I, and those like me, will take them seriously when
they, and justly so, criticise the Israeli occupation while turning the other
way as far as the Syrian occupation is concerned.

I appreciate Rached's comments about CLAO's talks with Clinton on the Syrian
occupation, without mentioning the Israeli occupation.

The same is true about the Syrian occupation.

again shame on all those who speak with two tongues!

elie wardini
Newsgroups: soc.culture.lebanon
From: aaldoubo@copper.denver.colorado.edu (Anisa Alnoor Aldoubosh)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.lebanon
Subject: Re: Hassles at Beirut Airport
Date: 16 Oct 92 07:28:25 GMT
Organization: University of Colorado at Denver

In article <1992Oct14.185259.28948@njitgw.njit.edu> elie@hdtv.njit.edu (Elie I. Mourad) writes:
>
>I'd give him 100$ next time if he'd do his job and take the Hafez Assad
>posters off the walls. (I hope that they're not there anymore)

:-)  How much would you pay the other guy for removing the tatoo from
his face?  :)

I wonder if posters can relay their experiences (if any) of hassles in
Damascus airport.  Like confiscating electronic items or being hassled
by security.  A friend of mine who was traveling from Lebnan a few
years ago said that she was stripped searched at the airport in Damascus.


Anisa

Newsgroups: soc.culture.lebanon
From: e.d.wardini@easteur-orient.uio.no (Elie Dib Wardini) (Elie Dib Wardini)
Subject: Re: AlpaLeb V 1.0
Organization: UiO
Date: Wed, 7 Oct 1992 10:52:03 GMT

In article <NMOUAWAD.92Oct6155739@neumann.waterloo.edu> nmouawad@waterloo.edu
(Naji Mouawad) writes:
>

Many good things that I happen to agree with!

>-allo lebneneh shi ?
>-allo eih
>-allo men wein ?
>-allo men Lebnen
>-allo lah badna na@rif men wen ?
>-allo ma-byekfik enno ana lebneneh ?
>-allo ya-khayyeh ma-@edna na@rif beh-al iyyemet min iben min w wmin la
>min
>
>sakat heik w-allo:
>	"ana men taHt el-arze, w-ana men SaDa el Hajar, ana men ruH
>el-sahl w ana men oSSas l-zghar. Ana men-hal-terbe elle ma-btenjar w
>ana mn-el-baHr el-ma-bi-ghir. Ana men-le-b'a@ w ana men-el-jnoub, ebn
>SayDa w ebn Sour. Ana mnel-jabal l-l'adim w menl Day@a el-sehrane, men
>@ayneyn el Helwin w-men za'fit @eres. Ana mnel-riH el awwetna wmenl
>sham@ el-@allamna, ana m-nel-shmel, men Trablous w-mn-Jbeil, men kil
>al@a w-nahr, men kel sa'ef w jar mnel Hub-l-ghamarna wmen-l-assa
>l-fahamna. Ana men Lebenen w-Lebneen menneh mabyntassa. Khalik ya
>khayeh @ala-l sharaf masnoud ta-ma y@ellak SawT el Assad wel-dib, enta
>w-ana hown mawjoudin sawTain @ala-l faraH maw@oudin bkel tal-w-tal min
>areD Lebnen byb'a l-zaman y-t-zakar Toufouletna ta-bass yekhla' nahr
>el-tassemouh n'idir ntel'a bi amen w y-koun be'loubna el-rek@in Sala
>menToli' w-fareHtak ya Lebnen".

Naji, I thank God for the gift of words that he has given you! maybe you copied
this text from someone else, if so, you quoted my feelings. If they are yours,
again thank God for you!

(we are not all gifted!)

>
>naji.
>



elie wardini
Newsgroups: soc.culture.lebanon
From: rached@blanc.eng.ohio-state.edu (rached)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.lebanon
Subject: Re: Syrian occupation of Lebanon
Date: 15 Oct 92 23:36:16 GMT
Organization: The Ohio State University Dept of Electrical Engineering



Basil
Good for you that you think that your "beleif" is founded on reality.
Just some thoughts from the land of wonders.

Did any Lebaneese government ask the syrians to leave. Now don't give me
the speech about the puppet government. Still it is a government and it
rules a country. Recently we had elections and many lebaneese voted for
their representatives. The Lebaneese government exists and has an army.
This to me looks like a sovereign country. Now just because our leaders
are influenced by outside forces does not make us under the occupation
of those outside forces. 
Dear Basil,

When a country is occupying another, then it is doing so inspite of the
demand of the occupied country. Please furnish a proof as to the request
from the Lebaneese government for Syrians to pull out. Or did you buy
the rthethoric of the "opposition" that Syrians must go out of Beirut
before September ? Why only Beirut ? What if the Syrians pull oput of
Beirut but are still in Bekaa, North and Mountains are we then liberated
? it seems that this is the line of thinking of the so called
"opposition".

So you see Basil, my idea of occupation is the down to earth and yours
is based on your personal beleif and not on the facts there.

Finally, occupation or not, I beleive that Syrians will pull oyut when
the Lebaneese government asks them to. They are only there because we
have proved time and time again that when left alone we will return to
play with guns. Need I remind you about what happened when the Syrians
were out of Beirut with all the militias (whether in West or East
Beirut).

rached
`
From: haidar@ces.cwru.edu (H. Harmanani)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.lebanon
Subject: Re: Power Plant
Date: 8 Oct 1992 14:35:27 GMT
Organization: Computer Engineering and Science/CWRU
NNTP-Posting-Host: syntest.ces.cwru.edu

In article <1992Oct8.133337.11713@thunder.mcrcim.mcgill.edu> mackenzi@McRCIM.McGill.EDU (Paul Mackenzie) writes:

>I heard recently from a reliable source (whose shall remain nameless,
>right Wassim?) that there is a large hydro-electric generating plant
>in southern Lebanon but that it is presently in Israeli occupied
>territory and therefore not functioning.
>
>Does anyone have any more details about this, like its power output
>capability, when it went off-line, etc. ?

There is no hydro-electric plant in Israeli occupied Southern Lebanon.
The reliable source is not so reliable I would say :-)

>Paul


-- 
H. Harmanani (haidar@alpha.ces.cwru.edu)
Dept. of Computer Engineering
Crawford Hall 215C
Case Western Reserve U
Newsgroups: soc.culture.lebanon
From: saouma@chopin (SAOUMA VICTOR E)
Subject: Re: Hassles at Beirut Airport
Organization: University of Colorado, Boulder
Date: Fri, 16 Oct 1992 19:05:02 GMT

Khaled T:

Obviously I was not referring to you when I suggested that the
posting of Elie and Khaled be compared, and conclusions drawn.

I apologize for the confusion.


-- 


Victor E. Saouma
Newsgroups: soc.culture.lebanon
From: nmouawad@waterloo.edu (Naji Mouawad)
Subject: Re: Syrian occupation of Lebanon
Organization: University of Waterloo
	<1992Oct15.132330.6807@ee.eng.ohio-state.edu>
Date: Fri, 16 Oct 1992 17:30:59 GMT


About the Syrian "presence" in Lebanon. A little fact that some of you
may have forgotten:

 President Gemayel had back in 1989 sent a formal letter thanking
president Assad for his "help and cooperation" and asking for a
complete withdrawal of the Syrian forces in Lebanon.

To the said demand there was no response.

 Since then, the Syrian "presence" in Lebanon is illegal.

 The now-ever-populare "maronite-got-them-in" argument is shaky at
best. Those who "asked" the Syrians in were not respresentative of the
Lebanese people much less than those who fought in any militia. I
repeat any militia.

 If some of our politicians felt desperate or acted stupid why imitate
them ?

 Since the Taef agreement, the country is in chamble, the pound is
down, the refugees are still refugees, the curent elections have been
denounced as faked, were the "dead" voted more than the living.

 You do not convince anyone that elections were "free" when you send
7,000 soldiers in one area to man the elections. You do not convince
anyone that the "Syrian presence" is friendly when the Syrian regime
is ruthless, devoid of any pity manned by a tyrant whose sole purpose
is power, quelling any oposition by fire and torture. You do not
convince anyone that such a regime who is in control of the Lebanese
Army, the Lebanese secrete services, the Lebanese government and
shortly the Lebanese press is in Lebanon to "help restore freedom and
democraty" you do not convince anyone that Lebanon under the Taef
agreement is anywhere better now than it was two years ago. Evil
evolved, the suffering is the same.

 But as Jesus-Christ said: "they have eyes and they don't see, they
have ears and they don't listen".

 And remember, if I was in Syria right now writing what I wrote now,
you would not hear of me tomorrow. I would have "disapeared".

naji.
--
     -------------------------------------------------------------------
    | Naji Mouawad  |          nmouawad@watmath.waterloo.edu            |
    |  University   |---------------------------------------------------|
    | Of Waterloo   |   "The Stranger in us is our most familiar Self"  |
     -------------------------------------------------------------------
Newsgroups: soc.culture.lebanon
From: fahs@ecf.toronto.edu (FAHS Samir M)
Subject: Re: Syrian occupation of Lebanon
Organization: University of Toronto, Engineering Computing Facility
Date: Fri, 16 Oct 1992 16:50:15 GMT

In article <1992Oct16.120658.10926@ulrik.uio.no> e.d.wardini@easteur-orient.uio.no (Elie Dib Wardini) (Elie Dib Wardini) writes:

>                    . It is intersting to note how the Syrians were seen in
>the "Christian Areas" they were not wlecome from the first moment.
>
>
>
>elie wardini

I Do believe that your note is off base.  I do recommend that you pull out
a couple of books on the Two-Year war and skim through them. You might
be surprised to read that it was contrary to your claim.  If you do
receive the LebNet Daily Digest, a few Digests back that same topic
was discussed.
-- 
============================================================================
Samir M. Fahs       | " One will rarely err if extreme actions be ascribed
4925 Dufferin       |   to vanity, ordinary actions to habit, and mean 
Downsview, Ont      |   actions to fear."
Newsgroups: soc.culture.lebanon
From: saouma@inglis.Colorado.EDU (SAOUMA VICTOR E)
Subject: Re: Lebanese Shii dismissing Islamic Republic
Reply-To: saouma@inglis.Colorado.EDU (SAOUMA VICTOR E)
Organization: University of Colorado, Boulder
Date: Wed, 14 Oct 1992 20:23:07 GMT

Brad quotes from the Iran Times:

Adding to new sounds from Hezbollah, the party's secretary general,
Hassan Nasrollah, recently called for the Syrian Army to withdraw
entirely from Lebanon.

Elie replies:

Its good news...  :-)

and Victor says:

Do not underestimate Hizbollah, they are very well and
shrewdly (sp!) adviced by the smartest people around in the
neighborhood, the Iranians.
-- 


Victor E. Saouma
Newsgroups: soc.culture.lebanon
From: ayman@eecs.umich.edu (Ayman I. Kayssi)
Subject: Violence mounts in southern Lebanon
Date: Sun, 11 Oct 92 22:21:10 EDT
Organization: The University of Michigan, Ann Arbor
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1 PL6]

[ Article crossposted without permission ]
[ Author was UPI ]
[ Posted on Sun, 11 Oct 92 6:48:18 PDT ]

	TYRE, Lebanon (UPI) -- Israeli artillery pounded Shiite villages near
the southern city of Tyre Sunday after attacks by Muslim guerrillas on
pro-Israeli forces at the edge of the so-called security zone, security
sources said.
	Six gunmen and at least seven civilians were wounded in the violence,
the sources said.
	The Islamic Resistance Movement said its guerrillas planted a large
bomb that blew up against a patrol of the Israeli-backed South Lebanon
army militia on Rashaf hill at the edge of Israel's self-declared
security zone.
	Six SLA gunmen were wounded and their M-113 vehicle destroyed in the
explosion, a statement said.
	Another squad of Muslim fighters fired machine guns at an SLA
position on the road of Beit Lif at the edge of the security zone, it
said.
	In retaliation, Israeli artillery bombarded the villages of Yater,
Yarin, Barachit, Hadatha and Teir Harfa, east of the southern port city
of Tyre.
	Sources in the U.N. Interim Force in southern Lebanon said at least
50 Israeli shells crashed on Yater and Barachit, wounding at least five
civilians.
	Lebanese security sources said two people were also injured when 25
shells hit the villages of Haris, Kafra and Hadatha.
	The heavy shelling set fire to a number of houses and cars, witnesses
said.
	The attack was the second in less than 10 days. Last Sunday, three
high-ranking SLA officials were killed in twin attacks by Muslim
guerrillas on the Beit Yahoun passageway.
	The 2,500-member SLA and some 1,000 Israeli servicemen patrol the
nine-mile border enclave. Israel established the security zone when it
withdrew the bulk of its troops from Lebanon in 1985 to curb cross-
border guerrilla infiltration attempts.
	The Islamic Resistance Movement, the military arm of the pro-Iranian
Hezbollah, has pledged to combat Israel and the SLA until the complete
liberation of southern Lebanon.

--
Ayman I. Kayssi                               |    ayman@eecs.umich.edu
EECS Department                               +------------------------
University of Michigan                        |          (313) 764-8033
Newsgroups: soc.culture.lebanon
From: krt@ddxrsg.mlo.dec.com (Khaled Tabbara)
Subject: Re: fishing and diving in Lebanon ?
Reply-To: tabbara@3d.enet.dec.com
Organization: Digital Equipment Corporation
Date: Tue, 13 Oct 92 19:29:52 GMT




Please use AlephLeb...Its more effective for arguing and you can use
all those wonderful swear words and adjectives that we are blessed with
in Lebanon..

while we're on the subject...what's fishing and scuba diving like on
the moon ?


Khaled T.   ;-)
From: soufi@m.cs.uiuc.edu (Khaled S. Soufi)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.lebanon
Subject: Re: Story
Date: 12 Oct 92 20:47:35 GMT
Article-I.D.: m.1992Oct12.204735.1550
Organization: University of Illinois, Dept. of Comp. Sci., Urbana, IL

medawar@prism.poly.edu (Bassem Medawar) writes:

>In article <1992Oct12.053627.30341@m.cs.uiuc.edu> soufi@m.cs.uiuc.edu (Khaled S. Soufi) writes:
>>Very funny and painful at the same time.  'Sharrul baliyati ma
>                                            ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>>yudhiku' is what it is.  This is truly satire at its best.  I really
> ^^^^^^^
>>enjoyed reading this wonderful piece which does reflect the sad status
>>quo!
>>
>>Regards,
>>
>>-- 

>Indeed, sharrrul baliyati ma yudHiku, that was, with a single letter
>correction, AlephLeb.  You used it and nothing happened to the Arabic
>language, it is still proud as ever.  I'd say it is time for you Khaled to
>come clean with this AlephLeb business.  Say that it can be used and abused,
>much like the kitchen knife.

As long as a message can be read and understood, it really doesn't
matter how it is written.  This is not the first time I have used
Latin characters to encode my Arabic messages and definitely not the
last.  However, this is beside the point in which I was trying to
criticize the hooplas with Alphaleb.  Now don't come and tell me that
there are not some Lebanese out there who go beyound their way to use
anything (French, Alphaleb, Phoenician...) in order to avoid the use
of Arabic as their spoken or written language!  It is precisely this
that I am worried about and not using French or Alphaleb as means of
communication.

Bassem, (I specifically like to call you because Bassem is
my-only-brother's name) Having read you were not going to comment on
Alphaleb anymore, I take it you could not resist what you probably
have considered as a blasphemy on my part and you ended up in a
blasphemy yourself :-)

>bassem

-- 
+-----------Khaled Soufi-------------+--------------------------+
|   Department of Computer Science   | email: soufi@cs.uiuc.edu |
| U. of Illinois at Urbana-Champaign | phone: (217)244-2274 (W) |
+------------------------------------+--------------------------+
Newsgroups: soc.culture.lebanon
From: saouma@inglis.Colorado.EDU (SAOUMA VICTOR E)
Subject: Re: Syrian occupation of Lebanon
Reply-To: saouma@inglis.Colorado.EDU (SAOUMA VICTOR E)
Organization: University of Colorado, Boulder
Date: Fri, 16 Oct 1992 14:34:38 GMT

>Elie,
>come on , we all remember the big picture of the savior "Hafez Assad" in
>the middle of Ashrafieh and how the syrians were welcomed with rice. I
>think before arguing occupation or not we should get the history right
>since I see a big discrepancy between what you beleive to have happened
>and what I do.

If you think that the Syrians were welcome with rice in Achrafieh
(as the Israelis were in 82 by the Chiites), you must be taking
your dreams for reality. The same "brothers" who placed Hafez's picture
on Sassine square, are the one who went a block down and murdered
Dr Berty (Pharmacy Berty).


>Were they welcomed in themaronite controlled area ? If bnot please state
>any attempts to resist them in those areas !!!!
>I know the socialist party of Jumblat fought with them as well as the
>palestinians at that time but did the maronites resist this so called
>"occupation" ?????
>Rashed

For your information, at the time there was a coalition of Palestinians,
"Socialists", and Murabitouns, all armed by Syrians who were trting to
find their way to Jerusalem through Jounieh. Yes indeed, the maronites and the
Christians were about to be completely overrun, and the treatment reserved
for those who were defeated was well known. The first pictures of
atrocities I can remember was the bodies of phalangists who were
trapped in the Holliday Inn, and subsequently drove around pulled by a cable
from a jeep. What was there to resist? 
The record of the Maronite is far from being perfect, they have many
mistakes, but one thing you can not accuse them is of selling their country.
In 1982 when Sharon wanted Beshir to go after West Beirut, Beshir refused.
When Beshir's soldier were at the airport supposedly shelling themselves
west Beirut, they had strict (from the phalangists) orders to fake as much as possible and
lobby those shells to the sea.. When the Maronites allied themselves with
Israel, it was indeed an act of desperation having been pushed into it
the sadest part is that about half the Lebanese population did not say anything
when the Syrian/Palestinian coalition was exterminating the other half.
History will judge.

Is it an act of desperation for all those lebanese "politicians" to make a weekly
pilgrimage to Damascus now? 

As to Jumblat, and the Druze they have always had this love/hate relation
relation with the Maronite (You may want to check his "pedigree"). He indeed
fought against the Maronite, allying himslef with the Syrians, eventhough
historically those two communities have been perceived as the staunchest
defender of the Lebanese entity.

If you want to continuously defend the Syrian presence in Lebanon, it
is your absolute right, if you want to blame all the evils in Lebanon
on the Maronites, it is your absolute right, but please do not insult the blood
of the Lebanese (CHristians and Moslems) who gave their life defending those
tiny 10,000 Km^2 by distorting the facts.
-- 


Victor E. Saouma
From: soufi@m.cs.uiuc.edu (Khaled S. Soufi)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.lebanon
Subject: Re: Story
Date: 13 Oct 92 19:21:48 GMT
Article-I.D.: m.1992Oct13.192148.15699
Organization: University of Illinois, Dept. of Comp. Sci., Urbana, IL

I have said many times Elie before that it doesn't matter to me what
race or origin you are or want to be.  The point remains that what has
been established in Lebanon will not change just because you don't
like them!  I am talking about Lebanon being a member of the Arab
League, having Arabic as the official language of our government, the
official language of ALL legal documents (bills of sales, marriage
licenses, etc.), and the official language spoken on the streets, of
course, with a variety of Lebanese accents (no Alphaleb on Earth could
emulate them all).  I can't imagine how you could visualize that a
'khodarji' would drop his Arabic someday and start yelling "cucumber"
and "squash" in, say, Phoenician.  I'd like to see you someday suggest
that to a 'khodarji' while he is holding that big knife they use to
cut bananas!

I think you ought to sit down and talk with Mr.  Barre Ludvingson more
often.

In the final analysis, I do speak/write French and I do use Latin
characters to encode some Arabic once in a while.  Only as effective
means of communication when necessary.  Anybody should know by now
that I am not against the use of other languages than Arabic (I
speak/write in three for God sake).  In fact, I think people ought to
be at least bilingual in this multiligual and ever so competitive
world.  I am simply against using another language to replace Arabic.
Sort of what Mr. Barre Ludvingson was explaining in his eloquant post.

-- 
+-----------Khaled Soufi-------------+--------------------------+
|   Department of Computer Science   | email: soufi@cs.uiuc.edu |
| U. of Illinois at Urbana-Champaign | phone: (217)244-2274 (W) |
+------------------------------------+--------------------------+
Newsgroups: soc.culture.lebanon
From: saghir@eecg.toronto.edu (Mazen Saghir)
Subject: Re: Power Plant
Organization: CSRI, University of Toronto
Date: 8 Oct 92 14:27:08 GMT

In article <1992Oct8.133337.11713@thunder.mcrcim.mcgill.edu> mackenzi@McRCIM.McGill.EDU (Paul Mackenzie) writes:
>
>I heard recently from a reliable source (whose shall remain nameless,
>right Wassim?) that there is a large hydro-electric generating plant
>in southern Lebanon but that it is presently in Israeli occupied
>territory and therefore not functioning.
>
>Does anyone have any more details about this, like its power output
>capability, when it went off-line, etc. ?
>
>Thanks,
>
>Paul


The hydro-electric generating plant that you're referring to is the Markaba
plant (also known as the Abdel-A'al plant in memory of the chief engineer
from that family who perished on the site of the plant). I believe that it
was designed and built in the late 1950's (or mid 1960's) as part of the
"Green" project (or al mashrou' al akhdar in arabic) whereby water from the
Litani river is used to irrigate the land in the western Beqaa valley and 
(parts of?) the south. A dam was built (the Qar'aoun dam) as part of the
project to generate hydro-electricity.

I do not believe that the hydro plant was ever used, or weather the plant
was completed at all, but I might be wrong here.

-- Mazen Saghir
-- 
Computer Research Group              | e-mail: saghir@eecg.toronto.edu 
Department of Electrical Engineering +----------------------------------------- 
University of Toronto                |"My work is so secret, even *I* don't 
Toronto, Ontario  M5S 1A4            | know what I'm doing!!!" 
CANADA                               |