HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: jgoldber@todah.chem.utoronto.ca (Joel Goldberg)
Subject: Re: Not Techelet Again (Re: Prayer shawls)
Organization: University of Toronto Chemistry Department
Date: Tue, 17 Nov 1992 00:24:30 GMT

In article <1992Nov16.193732.824@cbnewsl.cb.att.com> saal@cbnewsl.cb.att.com (samuel.saal) writes:
>>Andrew Solovay writes:
>>>>Oh no! Not the Techelet thread again!
>>Joel Goldberg responds:
>>>  But it can't _be_ the authentic techelet thread...
>In article <199211131251.AA14674@yfn.ysu.edu> <aa324@yfn.ysu.edu
>(Marlene Miller)> adds:
>>Nope, it's definitely _not_ the authentic techelet thread. In fact, it
>>looks kinda grey on _my_ monitor!
>I would have thought that the source for the blue dye, not just its
>appearance on a monitor was the knotty issue.
  Mah ha kesher?
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
From: lerner@cs.columbia.edu (Michah Lerner)
Subject: Re: Conversion Question
Organization: Columbia University Department of Computer Science
Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1992 17:53:50 GMT

In article <19Nov92.223643.13931@granite.ciw.edu> cohen@quartz.ciw.edu (Ronald Cohen) writes:

>> Actually that's not true.  You (i.e. orthodoxy) question
>> converts who were converted according to the halacha, but by
>> Rabbis that do not subscribe to your political movement.
>>
>>
>> I don't know who these 90% are.  Are observant jews that don't
>> subscribe to orthodoxy rejecting Judaism?!  Fortunately, no.
>> -- 
>> Ronald Cohen
>> Geophysical Laboratory, Carnegie Institution of Washington
>> 5251 Broad Branch Rd., N.W.,  Washington, D.C. 20015
   
   If you think that Orthodoxy is ch'as v'sholom a "political" 
   movement, then you are mistaken.  While some Rabbonim completely
   abstain from politics in any form, the current Gedolim in their
   wisdom have been involved in the political system for the clear
   purpose of advancing our religon  and addressing those who would
   try to change from outside of halacha the practice within it.
   
--
/M
From: mgross@halibut.nosc.mil (Michelle K. Gross)
Subject: Re: relations (was Oral Sex)
Originator: scj@israel.nysernet.org
Reply-To: <mgross@halibut.nosc.mil (Michelle K. Gross)>
Organization: Nysernet
Date: Wed, 18 Nov 1992 21:02:45 GMT


Someone posts that Judaism considers sex as "legal" only when it is done
to reproduce. Let me hasten to correct the mis-impression. Marital relations
(a term I prefer to "sex" as it denotes that two people and the Almighty
are involved in a spiritual and physical union) are required whether or
not the couple is capable of producing children.  If "marital relations"
sounds too stodgy, perhaps "relations" will do.

I think that the poster may have been refering to onanism or to "zera
l'vatala," wasted seed, which is forbidden in the Torah. 

Does anyone have recommendations on books that deal with the Jewish
viewpoint on love, marriage, and marital relations? I have come across
a few references in English to pre-marital relations, too, but I don't
know how widely available they are.

--Michelle
mgross@nosc.mil 
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
From: jgoldber@todah.chem.utoronto.ca (Joel Goldberg)
Subject: Re: Conversion Question
Organization: University of Toronto Chemistry Department
Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1992 20:14:32 GMT

In article <1992Nov19.173834.16841@porthos.cc.bellcore.com> er@iscp.Bellcore.COM (Elie Rosenfeld) writes:
>Where O parts company with C and R is in how to define a "legitimate 
>interpretation".  O Jews believe that the halacha provides a framework for
>what options are and are not acceptable.  And it believes that C and R step 
>outside that framework.  C and R can choose to believe otherwise, of course, 
>but it is really rather unfair to condemn O for not agreeing.

  Ok. We had a discussion on the kashrut of bee honey, and there seemed
  to be a consensus (or not, but it's not the point, as shall become
  clear) that the reason it was kasher was because there is a tradition
  it is kasher. The argument in the Talmud as to why it is kasher is
  probably wrong (ie. the facts they cite are wrong) but it doesn't
  matter because the particular law (honey is kasher) exists
  independently of any explanation.

  I described this bee honey stuff in order to make clear what I am
  _not_ asking.

  What I _am_ asking, is the following: When no tradition about a
  situation exists, and a ruling is obtained by applying the
  existing halacha to a set of facts, what should be our
  response when the facts are later shown to be false? An
  example is the barnacle goose. It was thought to grow on
  trees (the incorrect fact) and the kashrut rules (in this
  case for fruit) were applied to it. When it became clear
  that the facts were wrong, the ruling was changed (to
  regular kasher bird). Is such a "re-interpretation"
  halachically valid? Why or why not?
From: shimoff@umbc4.umbc.edu (Eliot Shimoff)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
Subject: Re: Yogi Berra online
Date: 18 Nov 92 16:40:42 GMT
Organization: Univ. of MD, Baltimore County

In article <1992Nov18.153520.13584@cbfsb.cb.att.com> hillel@cbnewsf.cb.att.com (hillel.e.markowitz) writes:
>In article <1992Nov18.141304.21933@umbc3.umbc.edu> shimoff@umbc4.umbc.edu (Eliot Shimoff) writes:
>>In article <1992Nov18.032145.29808@alchemy.chem.utoronto.ca> jgoldber@todah.chem.utoronto.ca (Joel Goldberg) writes:
>>>In article <1992Nov17.210703.8003@porthos.cc.bellcore.com> er@iscp.Bellcore.COM (Elie Rosenfeld) writes:
>>>>Yes, the wit and wisdom of this great man is now available in archive form.
>>>>(Why is this is s.c.j?  Who cares!)
>>>   Well, there's the halachic issue of presumption of observance. ie.
>>>       "Hu loh over ad sheh hu over."
>>
>>Ah yes, Yogi was one of a kind.  Sort of a "berra bifnei atzmo."
>
>Yes, smarter than the average bear, Boo-Boo. and where does the
>ranger come in.
>
>>(Coincidentally [if you believe in coincidences :-)], daf yomi
>>recently discussed the halakhic problem of bari versus shema.
>>Go for it, punsters!)
>
>What does the fact that Peter Pan (author Barry) didn't want to go
>to bed (because the author didn't want to have him say the bedtime
>shema) have to do with our favorite cartoon character.
>

As Michael & Wendy's dog said ... Na, na.  (The obscure reference
here is to Barry's Peter Pan; the two kids were Wendy and Michael,
and the dog's name was Nana.)



-- 
Eliot Shimoff                  |    n   n   n
   shimoff@umbc3.umbc.edu      |   X + Y = Z .  Easy to prove no solutions
Ashamnu, bagadnu, gazalnu ...  |   for n greater than 2.  Darn.  Can't fit
Better luck next year!         |   it into this little .sig file.  Oh well.
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
From: lerner@cs.columbia.edu (Michah Lerner)
Subject: Re: Halacha when the decisive facts were wrong (was Re:
Organization: Columbia University Department of Computer Science
	<1992Nov19.173834.16841@porthos.cc.bellcore.com>
	<1992Nov19.201432.25057@alchemy.chem.utoronto.ca>
	<19Nov92.205459.15910@granite.ciw.edu>
Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1992 22:16:20 GMT

In article <19Nov92.205459.15910@granite.ciw.edu> cohen@quartz.ciw.edu (Ronald Cohen) writes:

>>
>>   Another example is "electricity is fire" which is false.
>>   -- 
>>   Ronald Cohen
>>   Geophysical Laboratory, Carnegie Institution of Washington
>>   5251 Broad Branch Rd., N.W.,  Washington, D.C. 20015
>>

Electricity has been observed to burn any object that is placed
between two charged electrodes, giving substantial evidence that it
has the properties which we generally ascribe to fire.

Michah




--
/M
From: MASH@WEIZMANN.WEIZMANN.AC.IL (Michael Shimshoni)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
Subject: Re: G-d or G*d
Date: 18 Nov 92 15:33:46 GMT
Organization: Mail to News Gateway at Wang Labs

In: <1992Nov18.113708.734@vms.huji.ac.il>
backon@vms.huji.ac.il  tells us:
 Subject: Re: G-d or G*d?

>In article <emc.721944213@keiko>, emc@doe.carleton.ca (Eli Chiprout) writes:
>> I have long been interested in the repect shown to God by
>> not spelling out His name in full.  So we have,
>>
>> Elokim, (instead of Elohim)
>> Y*VH   (instead of YHVH)
>> G-d (most common in English)
>> G*d
>> Gd
>> (all instead of God)
>> etc.
>>
>> ******  I have ommitted quite a lot here  ******
>>
>> 6. If someone writes "G-d", do you automatically know that this person
>>    is a good Jew who respects God?  If that is the case, can
>>    writing "G-d" be a good criterion for judging which Jews respect God
>>    and which don't?  Is this a good external sign of the person's
>>    internal attitude?
>>
>> I would be interested in your comments.
>>
>> --
>> Eli Chiprout
>
>About 8 months ago, I was quite surprised to read in the newsletter, put out b
>Rabbi Yaacov Fogelman in Jerusalem, that Harav Yosef Dov Soloveitchik once
>entered one of the classrooms of Maimonides School in Brookline MA (which he
>founded) and wrote GOD on the blackboard. As a 24 year alumnus of this Jewish
>Day School, I can't vouch for this since I never saw this in practice when I
>studied there. I believe  that Fogelman heard that the RAV wanted to show that
>the English "GOD" in contradistinction to Hebrew designations has no holiness.
>In any case, when I studied at Maimonides High School in the 1960's I never sa
>this so it could have occurred at a later period.

Or an earlier  one.  In a book written by  Rabbi Samson Raphael Hirsch
in German which I have read, he is using throughout "Gott" without any
changes.  BTW he is using in Hebrew "Elodim" (with a dalet) instead of
the present use of "Elokim".

>Josh

 Michael Shimshoni
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
From: solovay@netcom.com (Andrew M. Solovay)
Subject: Re: Conversion Question
Organization: Smiley Abolition Front
Date: Mon, 23 Nov 1992 01:00:07 GMT

In article <102844@bu.edu> simon1@bass.bu.edu (Simon Streltsov) writes:
>I apologize, if I repeat previous arguments.

Boy, you really marked yourself as a newbie.

On threads like this, experienced scj'ers do nothing *but* repeat
previous arguments. And we *never* apologize.

You got a lot to learn, kid...
-- 
Andrew Michael Solovay    

"When angry, count four. When very angry, swear."
                --Mark Twain
From: dic5340@hertz.njit.edu (David Charlap)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
Subject: Getting pregnant the first time
Date: 20 Nov 92 22:32:25 GMT
Organization: New Jersey Institute of Technology, Newark, N.J.

In article <9211181347.AA15289@underprize.think.com> rlk@think.com (Robert Krawitz) writes:
>I certainly hope that no one takes THIS old chestnut seriously!
>Whatever the source, there are plenty of recorded examples of getting
>pregnant "the first time".

Here's a good rationale:  A married woman must observe Nidda - that
is, she may not have relations with her husband from the start of her
period until a week after it ends.  This means that every month, her
husband must wait until the perfect time for conception before they
may have sex.  The first time, traditionally, was done in the Yichud
room, right after the wedding.  This would be the only time where time
of the month would not be a concern.  The odds of getting pregnant on
this time would be lower than on the rest of times, when a man would
be forbidden from touching his wife during the low-odds time of the
month. 


-- 
  |)  David Charlap          | .signature confiscated by FBI due to
 /|_  dic5340@hertz.njit.edu | an ongoing investigation into the
((|,)                        | source of these .signature virusses
 ~|~
Xref: sparky soc.culture.jewish:20647 soc.culture.turkish:11863 talk.politics.mideast:22361 talk.politics.soviet:9056 soc.culture.greek:10785 soc.culture.europe:9719 soc.culture.soviet:10136 soc.rights.human:4259 soc.culture.yugoslavia:9640
From: warren@nysernet.org (Warren Burstein)
Subject: Re: Kosher Honey - Still no Answer
Reply-To: warren@nysernet.org
Organization: Mail to News Gateway at Wang Labs
Date: Sat, 14 Nov 1992 23:43:59 GMT

In <199211121300.AA04785@das.wang.com> MASH@WEIZMANN.WEIZMANN.AC.IL (Michael Shimshoni) writes:

>It surely is, and worse still, it is in a treif container!

Perhaps the lion had a hechsher stamped on its skin?
-- 
/|/-\/-\          Adif tzav pinui metzav shmoneh.
 |__/__/_/    
 |warren@     
/ nysernet.org 			    Jerusalem
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
From: jgoldber@todah.chem.utoronto.ca (Joel Goldberg)
Subject: Re: "Feminazis" and the "abortion holocaust"
Organization: University of Toronto Chemistry Department
Date: Sun, 22 Nov 1992 20:09:34 GMT

In article <swLLuB2w165w@valpso.hanse.de> tichauer@valpso.hanse.de (Manfredo Tichauer) writes:
>aap@next03wor.wam.umd.edu (Alberto Adolfo Pinkas) writes:
>> I would like to see this tread out of s.c.j.
>   So do I. 
  They are both tired of it.
From: friedenb@poplar.egr.msu.edu (Gedaliah Friedenberg)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
Subject: Re: Conservative vs. Orthodox Halacha (was Conversion Question)
Date: 16 Nov 92 21:06:55 GMT
Reply-To: friedenb@poplar.egr.msu.edu (Gedaliah Friedenberg)
Organization: College of Engineering, Michigan State University


In article <1992Nov16.032403.2387@cbnews.cb.att.com> ask@cbnews.cb.att.com (Arthur S. Kamlet) writes:
>In article <1992Nov12.175344.16158@msuinfo.cl.msu.edu> friedenb@birch.egr.msu.edu (Gedaliah Friedenberg) writes:

>>I left the C movement because I saw that they seem to have lost sight 
>>of what it was that they were trying to "conserve."  I wonder what A.J.
>>Heschel and Solomon Shechter would think of driving to shul on Shabbos 
>>to hear a woman Rabbi and make kiddush over Blue Nun Wine? 

>Hyperbole.   The same teshuvah Gedaliah cited above says blue nun and
>the like NOT be used for kiddush.

Not so.  It is only *recommended* that heckshered wine be used for religious
purposes.  It is based in ma'aris ayin, and *not* based in the "kosherness" 
of the wine itself.  This was told to me by Rabbi Silverman (the author of 
the teshuva) himself when I was the mashgiach of a Camp where he is the Rav.  
He wanted to allow non-kosher (non-hecksered if you prefer) grape products 
to be used in the dining hall.  This issue naturally arose.  

The teshuva likewise *recommends* that Israeli wine be used.  The reason 
given is that it is a mitzvah to support the State of Israel.  This does 
not mean that we are bound to Israeli wine (or heckshered wine in the 
same sense).  It is simplay a "recommendation."

As far as I am concerned, either it is kosher, or it is not.  This is not
a dispute between two respected hechskers.  This is a dispute between 
(e.g.) Manischevitz and Blue Nun.

These recommendations sound more like "fence sitting" than like halacha.    

Gedaliah Friedenberg
-=-Department of Mechanical Engineering
-=-Department of Metallurgy, Mechanics and Materials Science
-=-Michigan State University


                   
Xref: sparky soc.culture.jewish:20375 bit.listserv.catholic:2581
Organization: Queen's University at Kingston
Date: Wed, 18 Nov 1992 15:37:06 EST
From: andy <2893684@QUCDN.QueensU.CA>
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish,bit.listserv.catholic
Subject: Re: "Feminazis" and the "abortion holocaust"

In article <92323.1532272893684@QUCDN.QueensU.CA>, andy
<2893684@QUCDN.QueensU.CA> says:
>
>The term feminazi was used in a recent posting on the bit.listserv.catholic
>newsgroup, I pointed out that I felt this was an inappropriate and flippant
>use of the term Nazi, when one considers the millions who died. I was
>subsequently told that it is appropriate because abortion is analogous to the
>Holocaust, another comparison I find highly offensive.
>
>Would someone please explain to our friend (notice the cross-post) why these
>usages are inappropriate? Thank you.

I'm reattempting the cross post.
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
From: jlove@ivrit.ra.itd.umich.edu (Jack Love)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
Subject: Re: Quiz
Date: 23 Nov 1992 16:44:11 GMT
Organization: /usr/local/trn/lib/organization
NNTP-Posting-Host: ivrit.ra.itd.umich.edu

In article <1992Nov23.144417.20490@umbc3.umbc.edu> shimoff@umbc4.umbc.edu (Eliot Shimoff) writes:
>At the recent meeting of the General Assembly of the Council of
>Jewish Federations, a woman was seen wearing a sweatshirt with
>the MCI slogan "If not now, when.  If not us, who?"
>

Obviously the "if not us who" part is original to MCI (or at least
has nothing to do with Hillel the Elder). I would be interested
in learning where this slogan came from. I must admit I find it
grating. Although Pirke Avot hardly stands in my mind as the 
deepest end of Jewish philosophy, I do resent its exploitation
for commercial purposes. Is there some possibility that this 
thought just bounded into some advertising hack's mind, or did
they flat out steal it?

Jack F. Love
From: aaldoubo@copper.denver.colorado.edu (Shaqeeqa)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
Subject: Re: Conversion Question
Date: 20 Nov 92 04:45:44 GMT
Organization: University of Colorado at Denver

In article <1992Nov19.062732.21597@cis.ohio-state.edu> khaikin@boa.cis.ohio-state.edu (dmitry khaikin) writes:

>Would you kindly respect the Name of G-d and NOT write His Name like you
>just did. I can't even read the your article after this. It reminds of
>the way goyim write the name of ... on the walls of the toilet. 


Is the term 'goyim' refer specifically to Xians or (and) to non-Jews
in general?

I understand why you are not supposed to write the name of God out (as
Muslims, we consider His Name to be very Holy also), but since it is
written electronically verses on paper, why does it still maintain the
same rule?  Or is it just that the tradition cannot be moderated?

Anisa

Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
From: esafern@shearson.com (Eric Safern)
Subject: Re: Mathematical Proof of G-d?
Reply-To: esafern@shearson.com
Organization: Lehman Brothers, Inc.
Date: Wed, 18 Nov 1992 16:55:55 GMT

In article 7527@ennews.eas.asu.edu, makowsky@enuxhb.eas.asu.edu (David Makowsky) writes:
>	With respect to proofs for G-d, I once heard something like this.
>
>	  G-d has all qualities
>	+ existence is a quality
>	------------------------
>	  G-d has existence.
>
>	Also, just like the original poster in this thread, this is not my
>idea, nor do I subscribe to it.
>--
>	There are three types of people in the world.  Those that are good
>at math and those that are not.
>
>makowsky@enuxhb.eas.asu.edu

Maybe I shouldn't even bother, but...

This is circular logic.  It is obvious that if God (as the Omnipotent Being
we understand as God) exists, He has all qualities, and vice versa.

HOWEVER, you cannot simply assume 'He has all qualities' if you haven't assumed
He exists.

Now, prove the first statement, and we may be getting somewhere...



---
							Eric Safern
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
 Internet: esafern@sisyphus.govt.shearson.com   ...!uunet!sisyphus!esafern
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
From: lerner@cs.columbia.edu (Michah Lerner)
Subject: TO READ ONE BOOK!
Organization: Columbia University Department of Computer Science
Date: Mon, 16 Nov 1992 19:09:44 GMT

There was a recent thread on the ONE book to read.  You will enjoy this highly
informative classic:

The Horeb
by HaRav Samson Raphael Hirsch Zt"l
Translated by Dayan Dr. I Grunfeld 
with Introduction by Dayan Grunfeld.

(Published by Soncino Press)






-- 
/M
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
From: dfs@doe.carleton.ca (David F. Skoll)
Subject: Re: Why I think Kach's policies are racist (AND DANGEROUS)
Organization: Dept. of Electronics, Carleton University
Date: Tue, 17 Nov 1992 02:47:51 GMT

In <1992Nov17.005622.18960@ennews.eas.asu.edu>
makowsky@enuxhb.eas.asu.edu (David Makowsky) writes:

[Skoll]
># Kach's "solution" is a recipe for disaster.  It is something that you
># may come up with in a brain-storming session, but quickly discard
># because of its catastrophic implications for Israel.

>	You did it again.  Fine.  Lets say (for the sake of argument) that
>it is a recipe for disaster.  SInce it is one of the few options given
>for certain problems, and the ONLY one given for others, instead of
>smearing it why don't you try to come up with alternatives?

I think Mr. Makowsky cannot read.  Here, in plain language, is the
David Skoll Alternative to Kach (tm):

1 - Maintain a very strong Israeli military.

2 - Put pressure on the West to contain Iran, Iraq and Syria.  Put
    pressure on West to have the Arab sanctions against Israel dropped.

3 - Negotiate some sort of interim arangement for self-rule in WB and
    possibly Gaza

4 - Continue the peace process with Syria, Lebanon and Jordan.

The next phase, if the peace talks go well:

5 - Sign peace treaties with Syria, Lebanon and Jordan.

6 - Give more control to Palestinians in WB and Gaza, possibly leading
    to independence after years of smooth sailing.

That's my solution.  It's not perfect.  But it's a hell of a lot better
than Kach's.

--
David F. Skoll
From: gpalo@digi.lonestar.org (Gerry Palo)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
Subject: Re: Who built the pyramids
Date: 17 Nov 92 15:15:17 GMT
Organization: DSC Communications Corp, Plano, TX

In article <97899@netnews.upenn.edu> weemba@sagi.wistar.upenn.edu (Matthew P Wiener) writes:
>In article <1992Nov16.165211.20122@digi.lonestar.org>, gpalo@digi (Gerry Palo) writes:
>>As for whether serious scientific scholars have universally rejected
>>Velikovsky, I challenge you on this point.
>
>You lose.  Badly.  If you wish to discuss Dr V on USENET, raise the
>issue on talk.origins.
>-- 
>-Matthew P Wiener (weemba@sagi.wistar.upenn.edu)

I'm not quite ready to give up on this forum yet.  Please explain
why this subject is apropos to talk.origins.  Ages in Chaos is
a book of history.  It deals strictly with historical documents
archaeological matters, and chronology.  Show me one passage in
it that has anything to do with "origins", which newsgroup deals
with things like the big bang, evolution vs. creation, etc.  Ages
in Chaos is totally irrelavent to that forum.

On the other hand, the book has very much to do with Jewish culture
and its past, including the relationship of the biblical record to
archaeological and historical evidence for a specific period of history
about five hundred years in length, and so on.  It is not even
a religious book and makes no doctrinal claims whatever.  And it
certainly says not a word about "origins".

I suppose you are in such a position of authority that you can simply
say, "You lose. go to talk.origins", and I am supposed to bow to
your sagacity and slink away.  But I must ask, are you speaking out
of first hand experience (i.e. have you read this volume?) or out of
third hand academic mythology?

Cordially,
Gerry Palo
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish