From: bobsarv@microsoft.com (Bob Sarver)
Subject: Re: End time predictions; Oct 28?
Date: 06 Nov 92 22:02:49 GMT
Organization: Microsoft Corp.


/(byczko)
/	There are things in the world that point to the end times:
/-The restoration of the Israel nation in the land of Palestine.

[1]  The current state of Israel does not match the Biblical state of Israel,
either in govt, composition, or terroritory.

[2]  The most strict, orthodox Jews insist that the current state of Israel
is an offense against God because the current Israeli state was formed at
the hands of man.  The orthodox Jews interpret their scripture literally
when it says that God himself will re-establish the state of Israel; all
other attempts are presumptuous.  Chew on *that* for awhile.




/(byczko)
/-Return of many Jews from former Iron-Curtain countries; the regathering
/ of Jacob.

[1] "Many"?  No, not hardly.  The world population of Jews is 17,400,000.
The current number of Jews in Israel is only 3,627,930 (World Almanac
and Book of Facts, 1992).  Any "regathering" which excludes 80% of the
population hardly qualifies as a "regathering".

[2]  The only reason that most Iron Curtain Jews are going to Israel is
because they have to.  Their original destination was Western Europe and/or
the US.  However, the Israeli lobby in the US pressured Congress into
passing a law that said that Soviet emigres could not fly directly to
the US without first going to Israel.  So much for free will.



/(byczko)
/-A serious effort by certain Jewish groups to restore the Jerusalem Temple
/ and the Mosaic system of animal sacrifices.

[1]  This has been going on for years.  I remember hearing about this in
the early 1970s, and nothing came of it then, either.  Reports were 
numerous about such-and-such a group that was starting to gather materials
to rebuild the temple, and so-and-so was going to start practicing animal
sacrifices, etc.  It was all smoke and mirrors.

[2] If your Christ did away with the need for animal sacrifices, then why
is a return to an outmoded sacrificial system considered to be a sign
of Christ's return?  



/(byczko)
/
/-Middle East power and stability in the center of world attention.

[1]  Actually, the single largest world concerns now are (a) the dissolution
of the former Soviet Union; (b) the Yugoslavian crisis and its 
potential to spill over into Europe; and (c) the state of the world
economy.

[2] The attention in the Middle East is on Iraq as a nuclear power, not on
the problems of Israel or its neighbors.  



/(byczko)
/-The real possibility of a world "peace" after centuries of wars.
/

[1] Really?  I know of at least six full-scale wars that are going on now.

[2] If the former Soviet Union cannot get its act together, the republics
may plunge back into battle.  Yeltsin recently announced that the Soviet
troops would not be leaving the Baltics as originally scheduled.  
I think you are overly optimistic.



/(byczko)
/-The movement toward a one world ecomonic/political order. Gentile
/ "spheres of influence" are realigning in the political and economic
/ sense; especially the events surrounding the communist world.

Again, this has been going on for years.  Centuries, in fact.  The first
inklings of a world economic order were at the start of the mercantile age.  
It became more interdependent in the last century, and even more in this 
century.  What you are observing is progress down a natural continuum.  
If you believe that the movement toward a one world economic/political
order is a "sign", then why wasn't it a sign 20 years ago?  It was going
on then, yet the End didn't come.  It was a sign 50 years ago, at the
end of WWII.  Yet the end didn't come then.  How do you know that the
end is near?  Suppose the world goes on for another 100 years.  We will
be even more interdependent then.  

At what point do you "know" that the world is interdependent enough to 
qualify as a sign of the End?



/(byczko)
/-The rise of a "New Age" world religion in an attempt to unite many
/ religions for the "New World Order". 

[1] Provide evidence for this statement.

[2] Here in the Pacific Northwest, home of channeling, New Age, crystals,
J.Z. Knight and Raumtha, this is not the case.  New Age is passe and on
its way out.  Shops here in Seattle that have been selling their 
paraphernalia were doing quite well 5 or 6 years ago; they are bankrupt now.



/(byczko)
/-Evidence of apostacy in some of the christian churches; dependence
/ on human effort in favor of Jesus. Legalism in favor of grace. Some
/ have desired dead religion instead of the joy of knowing God. This
/ is evident to some degree throughout the age.

/-False teachers. The bible abounds with warnings that men would arise,
/ teaching with the intent to gain followers and profit.
/ The scripture further warns that these come from within the church.
/ They are portrayed as having the appearance of godliness, but their
/ life reflects a different character.

/-Occult and Spiritism. These practices seem on the rise. Everything from
/ astrology to Satanic worship is becoming very acceptable. Often they
/ are closely linked with false religion; worshiping various spiritual
/ entities.

So why is it any different now?  And who says that the current state of
apostasy is the "End sign" state?  Suppose it gets worse 20 years from
now; wouldn't that be a *better* sign of the End?

Every one of these things has been going on for centuries, and (from the
conservative Christian point of view) they have all been getting steadily
"worse".  So, at any point in this continuum, someone could state that
things are bad, and that the end is near. 

This is the problem with these kinds of predictions.  Every generation
thinks that it is living in the End times, and so far, every generation
has been wrong.  The current generation looks back on the previous gen-
erations and laughs at them; "they should have known that they weren't
in the End times.  Obviously, MY generation is".  

How do you know that you aren't just as dead wrong as people 40 years ago 
who made the same statements ("We are in the end times") as you are making 
now?



/(byczko)
/-Rise of lawlessness. Society is becoming reluctant to punish offenders.
/ Notice that some of the more notorious crimes have spiritual overtones.

[1] You must not be living in America.  The public attitude towards crime
and criminals has taken a decidedly non-sympathetic bend in the last
five years, probably as a result of the economy.

[2] What spiritual overtones?




/(byczko)
/-Natural disasters: earthquakes, famine, weather anamolities, 
/ ect...

[1] Which have also been going on for centuries.  

[2] If you predict that famines, earthquakes, and other disasters are going 
to happen, and if you predict it frequently enough, you will eventually be 
correct.  I see nothing special here.




/(byczko)
/-Christian Evangalists report increasing number of Jews coming
/ to Jesus Christ. Some declare this is the end times.

How does this prove anything?  St. Paul declared that the end was near
in the first century.  He was wrong.  If St. Paul can be wrong, then what
does that say about a few 20th century Christian evangelists?


 







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