HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: spgo@is.morgan.com (Stefan Goellner)
Subject: Re: Sour Beer
Organization: Morgan Stanley - IS
Date: Tue, 15 Sep 1992 20:51:41 GMT

In article <1992Sep15.143217.2667@mahendo.jpl.nasa.gov>, julie@eddie.jpl.nasa.gov (Julie Kangas) writes:
|> 
|> As per discussions on rec.food.historic and rec.crafts.brewing
|> I have started brewing my own beer.  All the books stress the
|> importance of cleanliness to cut down on the population of
|> wild yeast introduced into the beer.  The idea is to have
|> the cultured stuff (usually in a liquid solution) be dominant
|> over the wild yeast.
|> 
|> Well, I've since found out about another style of beer that 
|> may be of interest to those who like *really* *SOUR* bread
|> (ie Russian culture).  It's called lambic beer or kriek (when
|> cherries are added).  It's allowed to ferment with wild
|> yeast and lactobacilli(!).  The description of the process
|> sounds like a sourdough pot gone bad -- real bad.  
|> 
|> I have been told that if you like *SOUR* then you should love
|> lambic.  It's hard to find but you might like to check it out.
|> 
|> Julie
|> #include "std_disclaimer.h"
|> #include "witty_sig.h"

Lambeeks are indeed wonderful beers. They are produced only around Lambeek,
Belgium, because as you said they are inoculated with wild beasties and that's
the only place the proper strains live. The process is to leave the fermenting
vats (and windows) open for a few days so all the critters can come in. (The
brewers are also quite protective of all the cobwebs! adorning the brewery).
It is then fermented, and aged for several years! I believe the fruits are 
introduced during a secondary fermentation. They use raspberries, cherries and 
peaches. I like it as a sipping beer and I don't think it's all THAT sour. You 
want sour? Have some Berliner Weisse *without* syrup. It's intended to be drank 
with syrup though. Russian beer also tends to be on the sour side and is consumed 
without sweeteners. The stuff you get on the street for 15 rubels has quite a
kick, but the ones that are exported (really though to find) are a little
mellower.

Stef
Lines: 18
Date: Mon, 14 Sep 92 12:10:43 MDT
From: earlyd@ee.byu.edu (David Early)
Newsgroups: rec.food.sourdough
Distribution: world
Organization: Brigham Young University, Provo UT USA
Subject: Re: Montana 86 Wheat


In article <97060003@hpcndm.CND.HP.COM>, dwj@hpcndm.CND.HP.COM (Dave Jerzycki) writes:
> 
> 	I called Wheat Montana - they only deliver 4,000 lb minimum -
>                                                    ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
> 


There is a place here in Utah that sells the stuff in fifty pound bags AND in
vacuum sealed plastic bags in plastic buckets (for long term, moisture
free storage).

I don't know how much it cost to ship something that big, but it is about 
$15 per bag.   I could pursue it further if you wish...just let me know.  I think
this place will ship anywhere


Dave Early
From: chris@hpspdla.spd.HP.COM (Chris Bostak)
Date: Tue, 8 Sep 1992 20:44:12 GMT
Subject: Re: Re: Going to San Franciso!
Organization: HP Stanford Park - Palo Alto, CA
Newsgroups: rec.food.sourdough

There are a few good bakers around.  Try ACME bread.  They're based in
Berkeley and sell their bread to various stores in the area.

Chris


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Chris Bostak                               |  chris@spd.hp.com
HP Stanford Park Division                  |  (415) 857-2075
1501 Page Mill Road, Palo Alto, CA 94304   |
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Newsgroups: rec.food.sourdough
From: dadams@cray.com (David Adams)
Subject: Re: Newcomer
Reply-To: dadams@cray.com
Organization: Cray Research, Inc.
Date: 8 Sep 92 09:01:12 CDT

 rhatch@bestsd.sdsu.edu (RICHARD HATCH) writes:

|
|A question: Most of the commercial sourdough bread I've tasted is fairly 
|dense and chewy.  Mine seems to come out light a fluffy, like Wonder bread. 
| I like the chewy texture better.  Any pointers?
|

Try a second rise.  (Ie.  Let the bread rise once like you did, then 
press the air out gently and knead it again, this time more gently
as you don't want to tear the gluten strands that have formed, and
then you let it rise as a loaf again.)

In general I have found that a once risen loaf is light and tender.
After a second rise it is more chewy.  You can try a third rise if 
you like.  If the dough is over ripe it will not rise a third time.
It is hard to say when that will happen as it depends on how your
culture behaves.  Ripeness is an issue you need to become familiar
with by experience.


Sometimes I get a stronger texture with a single rise but a longer one.
In general the principle is that the greater the rise time the more
glued together it feels.

---
--David C. Adams  Statistician  Cray Research Inc.  dadams@cray.com
___________________________________________________________________
       Old Sourdoughs never die.  They just ferment away.



Newsgroups: rec.food.sourdough
From: sgardine@news.duc.auburn.edu
Subject: Re: Why so sticky?
Organization: Auburn University, AL
Date: Wed, 16 Sep 1992 00:04:20 GMT

In article <bwalther.716552793@cunews>, bwalther@alfred.carleton.ca (Bill Walther) writes:
> In <1992Sep14.185337.1@news.duc.auburn.edu> sgardine@news.duc.auburn.edu writes:
> 
>>Leftover batter can be used to make hot rolls.  I'll give the recipe if
>>you're interested.
> 
> I would very much like the recipe!  Thanks in advance!

SOURDOUGH HOT ROLLS
	To at least 1 1/2 c. leftover pancake batter, stir in enough flour to
form a stiff batter.  Add 1/2 tsp. salt for each cup of flour added.  Knead
until smooth, adding flour as necessary.  Place in a greased bowl, cover, and
let rise 1 hour.  Punch down.  Knead, adding flour as necessary.  Form into
2 1/2 inch balls.  Place in baking pan.  Brush with melted butter.  Cover and
let rise until nearly double (about 1 hour).  Bake at 350 degrees for 30 min..
Serve warm.

Newsgroups: rec.food.sourdough
From: lfs@philabs.philips.com (Larry Skala)
Subject: Montana 86 Wheat
Organization: Philips Laboratories, Briarcliff Manor, NY.
Date: Fri, 4 Sep 1992 18:36:20 GMT


	I called Wheat Montana - they only deliver 4,000 lb minimum -
	they suggested Cleareye Natural foods in Savana NY, but they
	do not have the Montana86 wheat for sale. Only the red spring
	wheat and soft winter wheat.

-- 
UUCP : {allegra,uunet,ihnp4} philabs!lfs or lfs@philabs.philips.com
Philips Laboratories - Briarcliff, 345 Scarborough Road, Briarcliff Mnr,NY
Phone: 914-736-1015 evenings
Disclamer : I am responsible.....
From: aa782@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Emilie Unkrich)
Newsgroups: rec.food.sourdough
Subject: Re: A place you can order sourdough from
Date: 11 Sep 1992 03:15:31 GMT
Organization: Case Western Reserve University, Cleveland, OH (USA)
Reply-To: aa782@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Emilie Unkrich)
NNTP-Posting-Host: thor.ins.cwru.edu


In a previous article, eric_gorr@coglab_psych.uoregon.edu (Eric Gorr) says:

>In case anyone is interested, here are the details of the only response I 
>received to my inquiry:
>
>----
>
>Boudin Sourdough Bakery.  Their toll
>free # is 1-800-992-1849.  You can call this #, 8-5, M-F, Pacific Time.
>Ask them to send you a catalogue.
>
>----
>
>Just wondering if any other people out there have tried their sourdough...
>Is it good?
>
>Where is the bakery located - anyone know?
>
>(please respond via E-mail.)
>
>thanx...
>

Gosh Eric,  I just have to choose to say this:

You ask for information.  

You ask that it be sent to you by E Mail because
you hardly ever come on this board.

Then you turn around and post the info I send to you on the board without
even giving me credit.

Whats a CUllinary Arts Sysop on Cleveland Ohio Freenet to do!!!!!!!

Have a happy day.  I am going to go start my own culture.

Good night.
:->
-- 
Emilie Amanda Unkrich - Cleveland FreeNet :->  The human body can never be 
Culinary Arts SIG Cosysop (aa782)         :->  better than the food that it  
>INTERNET:aa782@cleveland.Freenet.Edu     :->  takes in daily to strengthen,
                                          :->  revitalize, and rebuild it.
Newsgroups: rec.food.sourdough
From: rhatch@bestsd.sdsu.edu (RICHARD HATCH)
Subject: Newcomer
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.4-b1  
Organization: San Diego State University - Dept. of Redundancy Dept.
Date: Sun, 6 Sep 1992 06:52:00 GMT

Over the past fifteen years of experimenting with grinding wheat and making 
bread, I've often wished to try sourdought, but it seemed to involve too 
much arcane knowledge.  This group has provided just the info needed to 
proceed confidently.

Last week, I received a starter from one of the volunteers in the group and 
started it successfully.  I knew the start was successful, because the 
information in the FAQs told exactly what I needed to know.  Thirty-six 
hours later, I had some very delightful tasting bread.

This weekend, I pulled out the stored starter from the refrig, proofed it, 
and found it dead.  Applying the principles from the FAQs, I used the 
tablespoon method to revive it (it was just snoozing).  Success again.  
Good bread for breakfast tomorrow!

Incidentally, my Panasonic bread machine seems to do a fine job with 
sourdough on its crisp setting, with the 7-hour cycle.  Seems to provide 
plenty of rise.

Thanks for giving such practical help.  I'm having fun.

A question: Most of the commercial sourdough bread I've tasted is fairly 
dense and chewy.  Mine seems to come out light a fluffy, like Wonder bread. 
 I like the chewy texture better.  Any pointers?

Dick Hatch
San Diego State University
Newsgroups: rec.food.sourdough
From: sgardine@ducvax.auburn.edu
Subject: starter abuse
Organization: Auburn University, AL
Date: Fri, 11 Sep 1992 01:27:00 GMT

fyi - I have had my starter for over ten years.  I feed it 3 parts bread flour
to one part water and one part nonfat dry milk.  I have left it in the
refrigerator (not freezer) up to nine months without feeding it.  It seems to
get better the more it is abused.
Newsgroups: rec.food.sourdough
From: rip@sequent.com (Paul T Taylor)
Subject: Re: Why so sticky?
Keywords: sticky dough
Organization: Sequent Computer Systems Inc.
Date: Sun, 13 Sep 92 22:23:59 GMT

In article <bwalther.716413553@cunews> bwalther@alfred.carleton.ca (Bill Walther) writes:
>Can anyone tell me why the pancake batter I make is so sticky I can
>hardly pour it out in the pan to make pancakes?
>
>My starter was made over a year ago form flour, water, and commercial
>yeast, using "Mrs. Joy of Cooking's" instructions.  I keep it in the
>refrigerator between making batches of pancakes.  It develops
>considerable hooch on top, which I stir in before making a batch.
>
>The night before cooking, I add two cups of flour and two cups of
>water to about a cup of starter.  By morning it has lots of bubbles and a nice
>sour smell.  But it has the consistency of thick wallpaper paste. I
>reserve a cup of starter, add an egg, powdered milk, some oil and
>stir.  Then I mix sugar, salt, and baking soda, sprinkle it on top and
>fold in.

I follow the same recipe, except I don't put in any powdered milk, I
use about a 1/4 cup of 1% milk.  I would think that if you still
wanted to use the powdered, you would have to put in *some* water.

Also, how long do you let the batter 'rest' after you add the sugar,
salt, soda mixture?  I usually let mine sit for about 10 to 15
minutes, this tends to let the batter thin down a bit...

>The pancakes taste wonderful, but the batter is so thick that it plops
>into the pan, making very large, thick pancakes with shapes like the
>continents on some unexplored planet.  And if any of it should dry in
>a bowl or on the counter it takes a jackhammer to get it up.

Ahhhh, one of the hazards of sourdough cooking!  :-) I try to clean up
as I go along, or as soon as possible after breakfast.  Maybe you
could try using a trowel to scrape it off the counter.... :-)

>Any ideas, aside from just adding more water?  When I do that, i just
>get a thin paste.

I don't know, I like thinner batter.  I don't like real thick pancakes
anyway.  'Course, I don't want to be putting colored water on my
griddle either...

Good luck!


Paul

----------------------------------------------------------------------
       _____
      /     \             All opinions are mine,      Disclaimer?
     /  rip  \            all mine, and if you     I hardly know her.
     |xxx-xxx|            don't agree, then,
  ___|_______|___         BLRPHLPHLPHLPHLTT!!!!!
      \~ ~~ ~\
       \~~ ~~~\           rip@sequent.com
        \ ~~~  \
Help!  My karma ran over my dogma, and it can't get up!!
Newsgroups: rec.food.sourdough
From: bdienes@s.psych.uiuc.edu (Bruce Dienes)
Subject: Re: correction to STARTER ABUSE
Organization: UIUC Department of Psychology
Date: Sat, 12 Sep 1992 15:32:14 GMT

sgardine@news.duc.auburn.edu writes:


>It's 3 parts bread flour, 3 parts water, and 1 part nonfat dry milk.
                                                                ^^^^

I used to use milk years ago when I first started with sourdough.  A
couple of years a go I was given some starter from a friend who had been
given it as a wedding present (!) (he now has 20 year old children...)
with an explanation that the original batch had been transported out to
North Dakota with the early settlers, kept in the ear of an ox to keep
it warm!  He told me to use only water, and never milk when feeding the
sourdough.  My assumption is that it makes the sourdough less vulnerable
to "starter abuse" as there is no milk to rot in your fridge.  My
milk-fed sourdough of old died a horrible death when it was abandoned
for a couple of months, but this other batch has easily survived two or
three months of starvation.

Does anyone know if it the age of the batch that gives it such
stability, or if it is the absence of milk, or are both these just "old
spouse's tales"?

Bruce

Newsgroups: rec.food.sourdough
From: belas@comb1.comb.umd.edu (BOB AT COMB)
Subject: Middle Eastern Starters Wanted
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41    
Keywords:  
	
	Hi,
Organization: University of Maryland, Center of Marine Biotechnology
Date: Tue, 8 Sep 1992 13:04:00 GMT

		There have been several posts in the last couple of months
	concerning people willing to share starters.  If anyone has a
	starter from the Middle East, Baharian, Iraqi, Irani, Saudi, or
	Egyptian, I'd like to get a culture.  Also, does anyone have a
	starter from Ukraine?  I have the Russian starter, but am looking
	for one specifically from Ukraine.  If you wish to respond, please
	post to the E-mail address listed below.  Thanks. 
	
		Bob Belas
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
	"Adversity makes men, and
	 prosperity makes monsters."
		Victor Hugo
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
	Belas@comb3.comb.umd.edu

Newsgroups: rec.food.sourdough
From: julie@eddie.jpl.nasa.gov (Julie Kangas)
Subject: Sour Beer
Summary: lambic, kriek, *SOUR*, yeast
Organization: Jet Propulsion Laboratory, Pasadena, CA
Date: Tue, 15 Sep 1992 14:32:17 GMT


As per discussions on rec.food.historic and rec.crafts.brewing
I have started brewing my own beer.  All the books stress the
importance of cleanliness to cut down on the population of
wild yeast introduced into the beer.  The idea is to have
the cultured stuff (usually in a liquid solution) be dominant
over the wild yeast.

Well, I've since found out about another style of beer that 
may be of interest to those who like *really* *SOUR* bread
(ie Russian culture).  It's called lambic beer or kriek (when
cherries are added).  It's allowed to ferment with wild
yeast and lactobacilli(!).  The description of the process
sounds like a sourdough pot gone bad -- real bad.  

I have been told that if you like *SOUR* then you should love
lambic.  It's hard to find but you might like to check it out.

Julie
#include "std_disclaimer.h"
#include "witty_sig.h"
Newsgroups: rec.food.sourdough
From: sgardine@news.duc.auburn.edu
Subject: correction to STARTER ABUSE
Organization: Auburn University, AL
Date: Sat, 12 Sep 1992 11:09:56 GMT


It's 3 parts bread flour, 3 parts water, and 1 part nonfat dry milk.

I guess if you used only 1 part water you would know something was wrong.

Newsgroups: rec.food.sourdough
From: bdienes@s.psych.uiuc.edu (Bruce Dienes)
Subject: Re: Why baking soda?
Organization: UIUC Department of Psychology
Date: Tue, 15 Sep 1992 17:10:46 GMT

spgo@is.morgan.com (Stefan Goellner) writes:


>I've seen a few recipes for pancakes that uses baking soda (and/or powder).
>I'm curious as to why one would use this. Wouldn't the soda neutralize the
>acidity and make the batter less sour? Is this the desired effect? Inquisitive
>minds want to know.

>Stef

My understanding is that the purpose of the baking soda is exactly that
- to reduce the acidity / sourness.  A strange concept when one is using
sourdough intentionally to make the batter sour!  I find that when I am
making sourdough pncakes for people who are not yet sourdough addicts it
helps to soften the blow by adding soda.

Bruce
From: pierre@Thunder.mcrcim.mcgill.edu (Pierre P. Tremblay)
Newsgroups: rec.food.sourdough
Subject: Any Montreal-area starters to share?
Date: 1 Sep 92 18:03:23 GMT
Distribution: mtl
Organization: McGill Research Center for Intelligent Machines

If anyone in the Montreal area reads this newsgroup and has a starter
that they would be willing to share, send me E-mail!

Thanks,

		Pierre
--
/*********************************************************************
* Pierre P. Tremblay        Internet: pierre@larry.mcrcim.mcgill.edu *
* Research Engineer         Surface:  3480 University Street         *
* McGill Research Centre 	      Montreal, Quebec, Canada       *
* for Intelligent Machines  	      H3A 2A7                        *
*                           Phone:    (514) 398-8205 or 398-3788     *
*********************************************************************/
Newsgroups: rec.food.sourdough
From: walsh@cbnews.cb.att.com (john.p.walsh)
Subject: Acid Test
Organization: AT&T
Date: Wed, 9 Sep 1992 16:17:52 GMT

This morning I made my first sourdough pancakes, and did MY
acid test ==> my kids' reaction: The results were amazing -
my 8 year old ate them WITHOUT any maple syrup, and my 4 year old
had 3 helpings!!!

Since this is my first sourdough cooking, I was quite pleased.
The only PROBLEM I ran into is that the recipe that came with the
sourdough starter called for ALL of it to be used for these pancakes.
Needless to say, I saved a cupfull.

The details: Goldrush Old Fashioned SanFrancisco Style Sourdough Starter,
	     (purchased a few weeks ago at the SF airport for $3.75)
	     and started approximately 36 hours before making the pancakes.

 - John Walsh     walsh%pilgrim@ulowell.ulowell.edu
Organization: Washington University, St. Louis
Date:         Mon, 14 Sep 92 09:23:07 CST
From:         Jerry Pelikan <C05705GP@WUVMD>
To:           NETNEWS@WUVMD
Subject:      Re: Why so sticky?
Newsgroups:   rec.food.sourdough

>
>In article <bwalther.716413553@cunews>, bwalther@alfred.carleton.ca (Bill
>Walther) says:
>
>The night before cooking, I add two cups of flour and two cups of
>water to about a cup of starter.  By morning it has lots of bubbles and a nice
>sour smell.  But it has the consistency of thick wallpaper paste. I
>reserve a cup of starter, add an egg, powdered milk, some oil and
>stir.  Then I mix sugar, salt, and baking soda, sprinkle it on top and
>fold in.
>
What I do is feed the stsrter one cup of flour and one cup of warm water
in the evening and then in the morning, after saving out one cup of
starter, I stir in one cup of flour, one cup of milk, two tablespoons
of sugar, one teaspoon baking soda, and one half teaspoon of salt (more
or less, I don't measure too presicely in the morning).  I very rarely
get "paste" instead of batter.

>The pancakes taste wonderful, but the batter is so thick that it plops
>into the pan, making very large, thick pancakes with shapes like the
>continents on some unexplored planet.  And if any of it should dry in
>a bowl or on the counter it takes a jackhammer to get it up.
>
>Any ideas, aside from just adding more water?  When I do that, i just
>get a thin paste.
>
Jerry
Newsgroups: rec.food.sourdough
From: eurquhar@selkirk.sfu.ca (Eric James Urquhart)
Subject: Hot Midwest sourdough -possible answer
Summary: yeasts and environment
Organization: Simon Fraser University, Burnaby, B.C., Canada
Date: Sun, 6 Sep 1992 08:21:35 GMT


On Tthe surface of any plant fruit ( wheat, plums, hops etc.) have an
indigenous yeast flora.  The type and population density of these organisms will
fluctuate throughout development dependent on the environmental conditions.  The
reason stated in some research review in the dim past was that organisms which
can utilize the resources within will develop on the surface beforehand.
     Therefore, living in the Midwest where grain production is big business
there are probably huge populations of the "preferred" yeasts in the air column
at this time of year.


Eric Urquhart (eurquhar@sfu.ca) Department of Biological Sciences,
Simon Fraser University, Burnaby, British Columbia CANADA
From: lizard@cats.ucsc.edu (Raul Essig)
Newsgroups: rec.food.sourdough
Subject: Re: Going to San Franciso!
Date: 13 Sep 1992 09:35:03 GMT
Organization: University of California; Santa Cruz
NNTP-Posting-Host: am.ucsc.edu


In article <1992Sep11.001633.5303@odin.corp.sgi.com> loupy@roo.corp.sgi.com (Tom Loupy) writes:
>I am in total agreement with Raul on Alfaro's they have some interesting and 
>good sourdoughs...Since Raul and I agree on Alfaro's...I'm not sure but I am 
>going to try to guess the name of the bakery that Raul is talking about that
>makes a wonderful wheat sourdough...The other bakery I like for sourdoughs 
>is "Le Boulanger" (sp?) not to be confussed with La Petite Boulangery (sp?).
>
>Tom Loupy

I don't think I've had any from there.  I'll have to try try it!
The bakery I was thinking of was the Tasahara Bakery.  They have some
very unique breads.  Many of them are whole wheat breads.  I think
its some of the best in San Fransisco.  

- Raul
From: eric_gorr@coglab_psych.uoregon.edu (Eric Gorr)
Newsgroups: rec.food.sourdough
Subject: A place you can order sourdough from
Date: 8 Sep 92 20:43:22 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: University of Oregon Network Services

In case anyone is interested, here are the details of the only response I 
received to my inquiry:

----

Boudin Sourdough Bakery.  Their toll
free # is 1-800-992-1849.  You can call this #, 8-5, M-F, Pacific Time.
Ask them to send you a catalogue.

----

Just wondering if any other people out there have tried their sourdough...
Is it good?

Where is the bakery located - anyone know?

(please respond via E-mail.)

thanx...
Newsgroups: rec.food.sourdough
From: oak@fmd00.larc.nasa.gov (Theodore Creel)
Subject: diet foods
Organization: NASA Langley Research Center, Hampton, VA, USA
Distribution: rec.do
Date: Mon, 14 Sep 1992 01:11:56 GMT

 hello sourdough lovers
	i am new to thisgroup, having been able to read this group for only
a few weeks. love sourdough bread and have tried to bake from a comerical
yeast starter "good butnotgood". recently i had good luck with ahome type
starter.2 days for bubbles, 4or5days for afast riseing bread[2 to 3 hours first
proof.all of this experance was because of your willingness to share.thank you.
		
	I have another problem that this newsgroup may have some insight into.
this may not be theright  group ,if so may you showme the way to go.

	the problem; my daughter is allergic to wheat,barly and yeast products,
among other foods. she can eat rice bread and othertypes of breads.would any of
you have recipes for these types of bread.

please reply to t.r.creel@larc.nasa.gov .
 thanks in advance
			ted creel
	
--


  			ted creel
			t.r.creel@larc.nasa.gov


Concern for man himself and his fate must always form the chief interest of
all technical endeavors......Never forget this in the midst of your designs 
and equations.
					Albert Einstein