HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
Organization: Penn State University
Date: Wed, 27 Jan 1993 12:49:41 EST
From: <CSD108@psuvm.psu.edu>
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
Subject: Re: Aes Sedai
 <93026.134439CSD108@psuvm.psu.edu> <1993Jan27.083154.1@woods.ulowell.edu>

In article <1993Jan27.083154.1@woods.ulowell.edu>, steevesm@woods.ulowell.edu
says:
>> One killed in Tear - Ishamael (?)
>
>Are you sure about this last one?  For some reason I want to say you are
>wrong,
>since Ishamael was supposedly the strongest of the Forsaken, and I don't think
>he would have bought it like that.
>
>-darkelf

Well, there was some doubt about it because, after all he was the most
powerful (supposedly). I'm sure we'll find out sooner or later.

Maybe I should have said "One killed in Tear (maybe)" :)

--Craig

_______________________________________________________________________
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Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
From: steevesm@woods.ulowell.edu
Subject: Re: Aes Sedai
Organization: University of Lowell
Date: Tue, 26 Jan 1993 18:33:40 GMT

In article <1993Jan26.060948.6624@muddcs.claremont.edu>, ebrandt@jarthur.claremont.edu (Eli Brandt) writes:
>>(5) Why is Tigraine and not Breyan the mother of Rand?  I'm a bit confused
>>	on this.  Remember that Luc/Isam looks an awful lot like Rand (same
>>	mom?, indicating Breyan) and an awful lot like Lan (cousined dad). 
> 
> "Lord Luc" looks like Rand (Luc's nephew, by the Tigraine theory)
> because Isam was wearing Luc's form, but Isam, in his natural
> "Slayer" form, looks like Lan, his, uh, something.
 
Again, how do we know that Luc is dead?  Or even the powers of Isam?  Maybe
he's just a killer with a high liking for his job....

Someone explain this one...PLEASE!!!!

-darkelf
-----
"I have no brother, am like no brother;
 And this word "love", which the greybeards call divine,
 Be resident in men like one another
 And not in me.  I am myself alone."
	-Gloucester, Henry VI Pt. 3
-----
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
From: schmunk@spacsun.rice.edu (Robert Schmunk)
Subject: Re: Alternates
Reply-To: schmunk@spacsun.rice.edu (Robert Schmunk)
Organization: Dept. of Space Physics, Rice University, Houston TX
Date: Sun, 24 Jan 1993 20:47:51 GMT

In article <1993Jan22.052740.8161@cbnewsj.cb.att.com>, ecl@cbnewsj.cb.att.com (Evelyn C. Leeper) writes:
|> In article <9301212229.AA01148@student0.cl.msu.edu> blakeley@student.msu.EDU (Christopher Blakeley) writes:
|> > Is it possible to introduce the topic of Alternative Universes, as compiled
|> > masterfully by Gregory Benford?
|> 
|> Introduce it?  I don't think so, since Robert Schmunk just posted the
|> latest version of the "Alternate Histories" list a few days ago,
|> listing 860 alternate histories (four of which were by Benford).

Well, just because I posted the list doesn't mean the topic's been discussed.
Of course, there was that civil war discussion that got batted about back in
November or December.

|> I *think* you're referring to Benford and Greenberg's anthologies WHAT
|> MIGHT HAVE BEEN, but if you could be a bit more explicit about what you
|> wanted to discuss....

I have to agree with this statement. What do you want to discuss? The most
popular idea for alternate histories? (Battle of Britain and Gettysburg)
The best written? (BRING THE JUBILEE, of course) I'm always willing to
discuss alternate history, but somebody needs to throw some flame bait
out first.

-- 
Robert B. Schmunk <schmunk@spacsun.rice.edu>
SPAC, Rice Univ, Box 1892, Houston, TX 77251 USA
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
[He] turned back to the window and the opaque Houston sky. "You know, there
isn't anything wrong with this town that a couple of really good hurricanes
couldn't fix."                                      --Peter Gent, THE FRANCHISE
From: jc@crosfield.co.uk (jerry cullingford)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
Subject: Re: Fan Fiction--copyright Infringement? (long)
Date: 25 Jan 93 13:28:13 GMT
Organization: Crosfield Electronics, Hemel Hempstead, United Kingdom.

In article <727616865.AA07862@tdkt.kksys.com> David.Dyer-bennet@f100.n929.z1.tdkt.kksys.com (David Dyer-bennet) writes:
>I thought the problem was that *failing* to protect your copyright could cause
>it to be voided; that authors are essentially *forced* to be so protective of
>their work.

I think there's another problem; If you let other people write in your
setting you may leave yourself open to hassles if they then claim you're
violating _their_ copyright in later stories.

I believe this may have happened to MZB... and resulted in the junking
of a book and the blocking off of a whole section of the setting. Not nice.

That's an even worse situation; not just the potential of having to compete
in your own setting (Which isn't likely to be a major problem with fanfic),
but not being able to use it _at all_.





-- 
+------------------------------------------------------------------+     |
| Jerry Cullingford  #include <std.disclaimer> +44 442 230000 x3868|   ,-|--
| jc@crosfield.co.uk (jc@cel.uucp) or jc@selune.demon.co.uk        |   \_|__
+-----(Work)---------------------------------(home)----------------+ \___/
From: steevesm@woods.ulowell.edu
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
Subject: Re: Aes Sedai (VERY LONG!)
Date: 27 Jan 93 19:28:09 GMT
Organization: University of Lowell

This is in reply to the Aes Sedai (long) post.  My newsfeed barfs at me
with long posts, so it is in two parts.  Everything I wrote here is IMHO,
so if you don't like my tone, well, just lick me.

>......................................................ARTHUR & THE HOLY GRAIL

OK, here's where I see the first problem to be.  While some of these are good
character representations, not all of the characters seem to fit into the
roles.

>	* MORRAINE OR MORGASE = MORGAINNE/MORGAN DE FAY

No.  Morgan le Fay was a witch that lived to cause problems with King Arthur.
Moiraine seems to be in the Allanon role of knows more than she tells, and
Morgase seems to be free of any previous characters.

>	* NYNAEVE = NYVIAN/VIVIAN/NEMISIS OF MERLIN

Again, why?  Just because the names are similar, you can't draw paralells.
Nynaeve does not seem to fit into the Arthurian theme at all.

>	* LAN = LANCELOT

I agree with this one, but only if you put Nynaeve in the role of Guinevere.
Lancelot wasn't all that pure in his duty to a higher power (knighthood),
while Lan appears willing to do his duty no matter what.

All the rest I agree with.

>...................................................................RUMOR MILL
>
>These are neat ideas brought up by different people via mail or news.
>
>* Is MORRAINE a dark friend, perhaps forced to be so by Black Ajah 
>	Ceremonies

I would say she is an Allanon type, knowing/suspecting *way* more than she lets
on, but not going to tell more than a fraction of it so that she does not scare
the kiddies.

>* Does SUIAN SANCHE stays stilled, and does LOGAIN?

Probably.

>* Is ELAIDA not MORRAINE the one turned dark friend

It would explain the prophecy at Fal Dara about the White Tower kneeling.

>* Does EGWENE becomes Amarylin without taking the oath, very soon now, green
>	ajah, with GAWYN her bonded warder

Amyrlin Seat, or Aes Sedai?  BIG difference here.

>* Will LOGAIN be the next to draw Callandar?

Well, he's gotta find that glory somewhere....

>* Will those damn bracelets dropped into the ocean be used next on PERRIN?

Perrin can't touch the One Power.

I like the thoughts that Mat loses his eye in a deal with the Aelfinn/Eelfinn
but manages to trick them out of more than he loses.

-- 
-darkelf
-----
"I have no brother, am like no brother;
 And this word "love", which the greybeards call divine,
 Be resident in men like one another
 And not in me.  I am myself alone."
	-Gloucester, Henry VI Pt. 3
-----
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
From: hugh@huia.cosc.canterbury.ac.nz (Hugh Emberson)
Subject: Re: Niven/Pournelle, continued
Organization: Computer Science Dept., University of Canterbury, New Zealand
	<gal502-200193210220@150.203.36.92>
	<1993Jan21.172641.26215@lambda.msfc.nasa.gov>
Date: Fri, 22 Jan 1993 05:29:00 GMT

>>>>> On Thu, 21 Jan 1993 17:26:41 GMT, puckett@lambda.msfc.nasa.gov (Jim Puckett) said:

Refering to Leagacy of Heorot ...

Jim> Wow! All these different Niven male/female disparity thingies
Jim> going on, and nobody mentioned the Grendels, where the females
Jim> (those are the big, ugly dragon critters) _eat_ the males (being
Jim> the samlon - no, i didn't misspell that, read the book) and are
Jim> _much_ more intelligent, agressive, etc.

The Salmon are male, but if they can avoid being eaten then they
change into Grendels which are female.

Does anyone know if this is how the ``African frog with nasty habits''
reproduces, are the adults all female and the tadpoles male?


--
Hugh Emberson -- CS Postgrad
hugh@cosc.canterbury.ac.nz
From: jason@ab20.larc.nasa.gov (Jason Austin)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
Subject: Re: How To Write.
Date: 27 Jan 93 16:19:10
Organization: NASA Langley Research Center, Hampton, VA
Reply-To: Jason C. Austin <j.c.austin@larc.nasa.gov>
NNTP-Posting-Host: ab20.larc.nasa.gov
In-reply-to: schulman@michael.nmr.upmc.edu's message of 25 Jan 93 21:07:14 GMT

In article <18214@pitt.UUCP> schulman@michael.nmr.upmc.edu (Christina Schulman) writes:
-> In article <1993Jan17.001220.21195@news.unomaha.edu> Dwight A. Haworth,
-> haworth@cwis.unomaha.edu writes:
-> >    A final item: learn from your reviews, if you can get them.  If what
-> > you produce isn't good enough to print, you need to improve your
-> writing. 
-> > Sincere criticism is one source of learning.
-> 
-> Didn't Crawford Killian post several articles a year or two ago
-> on How to Write Science Fiction?  I seem to remember that they
-> looked pretty detailed.  They're probably available somewhere in
-> the sf-lovers archives, maybe at the rutgers site.
-> 
-> ----
-> Christina Schulman
-> Pittsburgh NMR Institute
-> schulman@michael.nmr.upmc.edu
-> schulman@clarity.princeton.edu

	I had a literature teacher in college that was also a
professional writer, and he talked about the writing process
extensively.  The trick to becoming a good writing is to write as much
as possible and constantly polish and re-polish everything you do.
The average short story will go through fifteen to twenty rewrites
before it gets to press.  What reads like a smooth flow of thoughts is
actually a product of a hard, tedious, and repetitive work.
--
Jason C. Austin
j.c.austin@larc.nasa.gov

Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
From: GC.SUL@forsythe.stanford.edu (Sullys Maze)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
Subject: Re: Tolkien's (and Donaldson's) style (was Re: writing Styles)
Date: 26 Jan 1993 18:57:38 -0800
Organization: Stanford University
Distribution: usa
NNTP-Posting-Host: morrow.stanford.edu

In article <1993Jan27.013051.9551@colorado.edu>,
robertm@alumni.cs.colorado.edu (MONTGOMERY ROBERT PH) writes:
>
>[ Somebody out there probably knows the answers to these questions:
>  - Did Tolkien draw the maps?  (I don't remember if they're signed/
>    initialed?)
JRR Tolkien did the rough work on the maps, mostly in conjunction
with the writing over the years, adapting the map to the evolving
story.  Christopher Tolkien did the finish work for them.  This
according to the book of Letters from JRR Tolkien.  The maps were
redone and corrected by JRR and son in later editions.

>  - Were they done *after* the books were written? ]
>
I'm going to assume you mean: what largely came first, the map or
the story?  It's a chicken and egg problem.  According to the
letters, Tolkien had a rough map laid out for himself in his
study as well as a timeline chart showing what certain characters
were doing and where they were.  After typing out his MS a second
time, he discovered discrepancies between the times and distances
characters travelled, and the way his original map was laid out,
as well as place names that changed.  This he had to redo with some
difficulty.

Mike
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
From: krhill@naz.edu (Kenneth R. Hill)
Subject: Re: PIERS ANTHONYS XANTH BOOKS????????
Organization: Nazareth College of Rochester, NY
Date: Mon, 25 Jan 1993 23:31:30 GMT

In article <1993Jan22.182002.24971@neptune.inf.ethz.ch>, qvortrup@inf.ethz.ch (Michael Qvortrup) writes:
> OK, now. Repeat after me (2 times at least):
> 	"lot of people like"
> 	does NOT equate
> 	"good"
> It may equate popular (even probably does - kind of the definition, right?)
> but it does not necessarily equate or even imply 'good'. You can also
> make a case that it implies intertaining, but does intertaining imply
> 'good'? Or does it need something more to make it good - that special
> something, which notably the Xanth books hasn't got?

	Apparently I think it does have that something to make it
good.  Now before I spend the next year saying  why I think he's
good, and everyone else on this Board tells me that he stinks,
because,...well he just does.  I have a better idea to free up the 
net a bit.  I don't have a clue to what you are calling good. 
I've read a few of the books I've seen on this board.  Liked some
hated others.  My point is unless I know what you are comparing
Anthony to I can't really be objective.  I like him you don't, not
much room for discussion there.  So I have an idea

	Anyone who wants to send me a list of your five or so
favorite authors {more fine, less good}.  Also put what you think
is their best book.  This way I know what the comparison to Anthony
is.  I have the feeling that I will get a lot of responses so
			PLEASE E-MAIL ME. 
	If nothing else comes of this I'll get a list of books
to check out this term.  If you want I will put together a list
of the most popular people by response and post it sometime around
next weekend.

Just a thought.

LATER:
KRVH
-- 
-----------------------Disclaimer----------------------------
	The spelling in this document doesn't necessarily 
represent the English language, or any other language used 
by, man, animal, or alien culture.
From: cordell@shaman.nexagen.com (Bruce Cordell)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
Subject: Re: writing Styles
Date: 24 Jan 1993 13:49:59 -0700
Organization: NeXagen.com
NNTP-Posting-Host: shaman.nexagen.com

ojvind@chagall.cns.caltech.edu (Ojvind Bernander) writes:


>I definitely prefer straight prose that where the form doesn't obtrude
>into your consciousness and disturb your line of thought.  The writer
>that tries to show off his poetic skill often overdoes it and the
>writing becomes overwrought.  A good example of someone who treads
>a fine line is Simmons in Hyperion.

>-- Ojvind


Fortunately, Simmons never crosses that line of which you speak, IMHO.

___________________________________________________________________________

           GOD IS NO WHERE                 Bruce Robert Cordell
           GOD IS NOW HERE                 cordell@shaman.nexagen.com

___________________________________________________________________________
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
From: gt3617a@cc.gatech.edu (GRIZZLE)
Subject: Re: McCaffrey: Crystal Line
Reply-To: gt3617a@cc.gatech.edu (GRIZZLE)
Organization: College of Computing, Georgia Institute of Technology
Date: Thu, 21 Jan 1993 06:52:38 GMT

In article <1993Jan16.091351.13814@serval.net.wsu.edu> msmith@beta.tricity.wsu.edu (Dragon Lord) writes:
>In article <1993Jan16.050059.12225@netcom.com> dani@netcom.com (Dani Zweig) writes:
>>"Crystal Line" is probably the best thing McCaffrey's written in the past
>[...]

_Crystal Line_ and for that matter _The Crystal Singer_ and _Killashandra_ are
not orginal works unto themselves.  They grew out of a collection of short
stories published oh say 15-20 years ago.  The Killashandra Ree short 
stories (orginally i think) appeared in a four book anthology: Continuum
vol 1,2,3, and 4; edited by Roger Elwood.
					
					-Jon Grizzle (gt3617a@cc.gatech.edu)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
From: schumach@stortek.com (Kurt Schumacher)
Subject: Re: Dave Duncan
Reply-To: schumach@stortek.com
Organization: Storage Technology Corp
Date: Mon, 25 Jan 1993 13:37:24 GMT

In article j4d@agate.berkeley.edu, altam@ocf.berkeley.edu (Allen Tam) writes:
>So does _The_Cutting_Edge continue from where _Emperor_and_Clown left
>off?  Or is it the start of a brand new series with new characters?
>I'm curious, because I've yet to see it in bookstores yet.
>
> Allen Tam

I haven't read the book itself yet (waiting for the paperback), but from the
reviews I've read and glancing at the book, it takes up sometime after the
end of Emperor and Clown with many of the same characters.

	Kurt
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
From: tara@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (Lady Johanna Constantine)
Subject: Re: Aes Sedai
Organization: University of Illinois at Urbana
Date: Fri, 22 Jan 1993 22:03:10 GMT

knott@sfu.ca (Dave Knott) writes:
>> 
>> Aes Sedai:

I haven't the foggiest what this thread is about,
but could the Aes Sedai have anythggn to do with
the Aes Sidhe, the People of the Sidh ie: The Tuatha De
Danaans (the fay, the Sidhe, etc.)?

I noticed the grail and Arthur in this post, so I thought
since those celtic things were mentioned, I might
as well give it a shot.


a very confused LJC
-- 
Lady Johanna Constantine* Tales and dreams are the shadow-truths that will
tara@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu   * endure when mere facts are dust, and ashes, and
Disclaimer - huh?       * forgot.      -Dream of the Endless (and Neil G.)
Church of Our Lady of the Perpetually Clueless, donations accepted......
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
From: darknite@camelot.bradley.edu (John S. Novak III)
Subject: Re: Aes Sedai
Organization: Bradley University
Date: 23 Jan 93 21:00:47 GMT

In <1js72vINNf36@sumax.seattleu.edu> harrity@sumax.seattleu.edu (Zak) writes:
>In article <C19zxC.JAy@news.cso.uiuc.edu> tara@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu 
>     (Lady Johanna Constantine) writes:

>>I haven't the foggiest what this thread is about,
>>but could the Aes Sedai have anythggn to do with
>>the Aes Sidhe, the People of the Sidh ie: The Tuatha De
>>Danaans (the fay, the Sidhe, etc.)?

>I have no idea who you are, yet somehow I could kiss you.... 

Ack!  It makes sense!
And, of course, Tuath'an is a corruption of Tuatha De Danaan...

Now, when I figure out the linguistic backgrouond for Aiel, Jenn
Aiel, and Seanchan, I'll be happy.  Oh, and Atha'an Miere (which
probably refers back to Mierin, somehow, which frightens me).

>>a very confused LJC

Incidentally, Lady Constantine, the thread is about a series of
excellent books written by Robert Jordan.  The series is called
_The Wheel of Time_, which consists of (thus far) four books:
_The Eye of the World_
_The Great Hunt_
_The Dragon Reborn_
_The Shadow Rising_

Fairly reliable and consistent rumor has it that there will be
either two or three more books before the story is finished.

The first three are available in paperback-- pick one up, you'll
probably like it if you're quick and knowledgable enough to
connect the Aes Sedai with the Aes Sidhe...

--
"Hey invisible mage!  See anything up ahead in the corridor!?"
		-- Darrin von Strauss
John S. Novak, III		darknite@camelot.bradley.edu
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
From: jlpicard@austin.ibm.com (Craig Becker)
Subject: Re: Stanley Kubrick
Originator: jlpicard@woofer.austin.ibm.com
Date: Wed, 27 Jan 1993 14:35:34 GMT
Reply-To: jlpicard@austin.ibm.com
Organization: IBM Object Technology Products


arthurc@sfsuvax1.sfsu.edu (Arthur Chandler) writes:
> 
>    This may not be the right place to post this question; but it's worth
> a shot:
>    Does anyone out there know what Stanley Kubrick is up to?  I sure
> wish he'd take on another science fiction project.  In fact, here's a
> good fantasy question:  if you could have Kubrick make a film of any sf
> story, which one would it be?

Last I heard (which was on rec.arts.movies a few months ago, so
take this with the prerequisite grain of NaCl), he _was_ working
on a SF concept with Mack Reynolds. Something set in the 22nd or
23rd century. I think it was yesterday that I read (also in 
r.a.movies, so adjust your skepticism level accordingly) that 
he'd completed a script and several Hollywood bigshots were on 
their way over to England to read it.

As for the film I'd like to see him make, no question about it:
_Use of Weapons_ by Iain M. Banks. Likely a tough job to bring
it to the silver screen, but if anyone could do a good job of it,
Kubrick could.

If wishes were horses....

Craig
-- 
-- "You will have the tallest,    Craig Becker, Object Technology Products --
--  darkest leading man in               Internet: jlpicard@austin.ibm.com --
--  Hollywood."                     IBM TR: jlpicard@woofer.austin.ibm.com --
--   - Merian C. Cooper to Fay Wray               VNET: JLPICARD at AUSVM1 --
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
From: levine@symcom.math.uiuc.edu (Lenore Levine)
Subject: Feminist Books  (was Re: The the great ongoing misogyny/misandry discussion)
Organization: University of Illinois at Urbana
Date: Sun, 24 Jan 1993 16:39:09 GMT

lichter@oahu.cs.ucla.edu (Michael I. Lichter) writes:

>Sheering away a little bit from _Native Tongue_, my two favorite SF books 
>on relations between the sexes are Joanna Russ's _The Female Man_ and
>Sheri Tepper's _The Gate to Women's Country_.  

>Russ's book is, to my knowledge, the classic feminist SF text. 
(...more on Russ)

>Ok, so it doesn't look SF, but altogether it is.  Relative to the
>earlier indictment of McCaffery and somebody else I don't recall, Russ
>does not have any very sympathetic male characters.  It's not that
>males are evil, it's rather that their assumptions about women and
>about themselves prevent them from relating to women as fellow humans
>in a respectful way.  You may think she overstates her case, but the book
>is thoughtful and often subtle, and deserves a read.

Russ's book is indeed entertaining, and thought-provoking. I do not regret 
reading it. 

However, her "feminism" has a distinct separatist flavor. I would not
want the readers of this newsgroup to think that this vision is typical
of modern feminists. Many, such as myself, abhor it.

If I say what I don't like, of course, I should say what I do. That is,
what science fiction books would I recommend, that use the theme of
female autonomy a lot more thoughtfully than Russ? That are also
(like "The Female Man") entertaining enough to make you feel you
haven't wasted your five bucks?

1) Elizabeth Scarborough's "Nothing Sacred." (She also wrote a Vietnam
book and another Tibet book that are quite good.) Some of her other
stuff, though, is not of the same quality.

2) Elizabeth Moon's "The Deed of Paksennarion." Female autonomy in
Tolkein's universe.

3) Anything by Hodgell. That her third book hasn't been published is
probably the greatest literary crime of the 20th century :-) . 

4) Into The Mother's Land, by Elisabeth Vonarburg. Don't let the fact
that this was translated from the French put you off. 

5) Of course, Tehanu. How could I forget this lovely book?

Also, if you want to read feminist SF film criticism that is both
witty and compassionate (for both male and female humans) read Kathy
Maio!

Have fun reading!