From: Albert-Lunde@nwu.edu (Albert Lunde)
Newsgroups: soc.feminism
Subject: Re: >slamming Women's Bookstores
Followup-To: soc.feminism
Date: 3 Jan 1993 21:37:25 GMT
Organization: Ministry of Silly Walks
Distribution: world
Reply-To: Albert-Lunde@nwu.edu (Albert Lunde)
NNTP-Posting-Host: remarque.berkeley.edu
Originator: muffy@remarque.berkeley.edu

In article <9212292253.AA09583@popov.EE.CORNELL.EDU> seid@popov.ee.cornell.EDU (Steve Seidman) writes:
>Hi it's me again.  I think that when I heard in an Ithaca bookstore
>"This is a women's bookstore, we don't have books by men"
>an idea was crystallized in my mind and that's what I started
>to write about.  I think that what was bothering me isn't
>necessarily related to the bookstore, or whatever might have
>been going on in the minds of the collective that came up
>with their store policy (I'm no mind reader).
>
>Here's what I suddenly realized:  HEY!! this concept of
>Women's Literature as a distinctly different literature
>written by and for Women is being taken seriously, as
>something real and in a bussiness setting to boot. It's not just
>an artifact of esoteric literary criticism anymore.  And it seems
>from followup posts, and the copious e-mail that I've been
>delighted to receive that the concept of "Women's Literature,
>by Women(only) and sold in Specialty (Women's) store" is
>entrenched and considered to be no big deal. (like, no different
>than K-mart carrying a certain brand of tennis rackets)
>
>Well, that's news! and excuuuuuuuuuse me for being out of touch
>with the currents of culture (I don't get out much, you see;-)

Well, feminist bookstores have existed for easily a decade, maybe
two.  But, as I indicated, they (like many small speciality shops)
are often started on a shoe string and are not all that "entrenched".
(and I would argue that literary criticism is a symptom - the 
cause is women writing about women and feminism.)

>However, I happen to think that the concept of Women's Literature
>with a Women-only-(essence) is sheer madness.
>
>First (WARNING: deep ideology follows:)
>In theory it is possible for a male author to produce
>a book fitting into some sort of Lesbian/Women's Literature Scheme.
>(and should such a thing ever happen, it could get shut out of the
>mainstream *just* as easily as the typical Lesbian/Women's book do)

For example, John Stoltenberg's anthology "Refusing To be a Man".

I think I may have gotten my copy in my local women's bookstore,
or perhaps in a local gay/lesbian bookstore.  You see, there is
no monothic cabal enforcing a policy on alternative bookstores ;).

I suspect reasons for the fact my local women's bookstore carries books by 
some men (especially gay men), are a mix of being established long enough
to move into a larger store, and having specialized in alternative childeren's
books as well as feminism, and feeling some affinity to the composite
gay/lesbian "community" as well as to lesbian-feminists.

>Second (WARNING: incipient deconstructionism follows:)
>Books can take on a life of their own in the minds of the readers
>that isn't linearly related to the sex of the author.  Also, there's
>been women authors credited with writing like a man.

Like James Triptree Jr. - a.k.a. Alice Sheldon?  If a woman writes
she's writing like a woman.  One might well argue, that to
"write like a woman" in the sterotypical sense, is not to write
at all.

This sort of assumes that women are excluded from the mainstream or
carried by alternative stores for writing a particular way. There
may be something to this, but I think its complicated, especially
factoring in the difference between "feminine" and "feminist".

>Third (WARNING: incipient Jungian psychology follows:)
>I happen to suspect that there's a masculine and feminine component
>to everyone's personality; it's just weighted differently in people.

I think this is bogus.  Jungian ideas have their good points, but
the elevation of "masculine" and "feminine" beyond cultural
relativity is not one of them.

>The concept of Women's literature that is sooo women-oriented as to
>be beyond men rubs against that grain.  And if such a thing were really
>true there wouldn't be any point to even discussing the issue because the
>OTHER couldn't possibly understand (which seems to be a totally pointless
>way of looking at the world)

It's not actually "beyond men" - you can, as has been pointed out,
profitably read it.

>Finally (WARNING: shallow ideology follows:)
>This is to address the diversionary conterarguments in the followup
>posts.  I have nothing against this or other Women's bookstores,
>I wasn't made to feel uncomfortable there; no one was rude; no
>one asked to see my feminist-id card; and no injustice was done
>(and I never said or implied such a thing).  And I see no reason
>why I won't go back to that bookstore when appropriate.  (But from
>now on I will think there is a touch of MADNESS to such an
>establishment)
>
>I never challenged the private property rights or entitlements of
>the proprietors to sell whatever they want to, nor do I think that
>reverse discrimination, or seperate-but-equal has anything to do with
>what I've been saying. [...]

But the tone of the article saying "you had a bone to pick" -- implied
you had a grevance with the proprietors of the bookstore -- so we
have tried to demonstrate there was no direct injury done to you.
I would repeat that I have found women's bookstores one of the
"feminist institutions" most accessible to men.

If your "bone to pick" is really with something else more ideological,
I suggest locating the focus of your concern elsewhere than "bookstores".

-- 
 Albert Lunde         | Interfaith  |     *Y*Y*      "A branch on the
 Albert-Lunde@nwu.edu |  Bisexual   |      *Y*        tree of life"
                      |  Feminist   |.......|.........................


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