HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: shaun%marble%octela@UUNET.UU.NET ("", Attacking Deep Structure)
Subject: Re: Version Number in ISO Formatted CDROM (sorry, long) (fwd)
Reply-To: "(Attacking Deep Structure)" <shaun%marble%octela@UUNET.UU.NET>
Organization: FUNET-NGW
Distribution: alt
Date: Mon, 28 Sep 1992 20:40:13 GMT

%>primarily because MS-DOS's MSCDEX doesn't handle version numbers.  This
%>makes Mac <-> DOS file name translation messy.

> I agree - and it's not only an MS-DOS problem.  Only VMS uses file
> versions, and even then they have special meanings and tag along as part
> of the file name string as an aside...  Other OS's don't use them in any
> way other than making them an annoying part of the file name string.

# Just so we don't get too far afield, I think that the file versions
# _should_ be on the disk when it's mastered (and I believe they _are_
# required by the ISO-9660 standard) - otherwise VMS users will have
# problems.  The real issue is over how drivers are to interpret the
# characters, and my strong vote is that file versions should NOT be
# passed on as part of the file name under any operating system which
# doesn't use explicit file version numbers - i.e., anything but VMS.

I want to press a CD ROM that will be readable on Macs, Vaxen running VMS,
and MSDOS and Unix machines, although the primary focus will be DOS/Unix
machines.  Should I include version numbers or not?  Is it even possible
to name the files so that they will accessible under both MS-DOS and VMS?

Gahhhhhhhhhhh.

--
shaun@octel.com  ||  "Now is the time on Sprockets when we Lambada!"

Days of Our Lives: It softens heads while you do dishes!
Newsgroups: alt.cd-rom
From: feustel@netcom.com (David Feustel)
Subject: OS2 CDROM from IBM!!!
Date: Tue, 29 Sep 92 23:27:25 GMT
Organization: DAFCO: OS/2 Software Support & Consulting

IBM is going to start shipping its first os2 CDROM on Oct. 5.
I don't know what's on it, but for $15, how can one go wrong?
You can order this CDROM by calling IBM at 1-800-3IBM-os2. Be
prepared to enroll in the developers assistance program by giving them
some idea of what os2 software you are developing.
-- 
Dave Feustel N9MYI <feustel@netcom.com>
 
[.sig on vacation]
From: mike.walsh@compart.fi (Mike Walsh) 
Newsgroups: alt.cd-rom
Subject: MICROSOFT DEVELOPER NETW
Date: 28 Sep 92 19:23:00 GMT
Distribution: world
Organization: ComPart BBS, Helsinki-Finland, +358 0 506 3329 (14 lines V.32bis)
Reply-To: mike.walsh@compart.fi (Mike Walsh) 

Mark, there has been a lot of discussion about this in the MSWIN32
conference on Compuserve (extended by me to include complaints about
the Finnish Microsoft pricing and with side comments of approval
(of us) from Germany).
The net result was that Microsoft US have been well and truly made aware
of the problem and the extent of feeling and the UK have been quoted
as saying that the Dev CD-ROM will be priced "reasonably" (Scandinavia
"at a reasonable markup above the US price) etc.
Having said that, the MS guy in question has been silent for weeks and
has NOT come back with his "reasonable"price - so I'll try to chase
him tomorrow and report back here.      Mike (Finland)
From: SHAPIROB@OUACCVMA.BITNET
Newsgroups: alt.cd-rom
Subject: (none)
Date: 6 Oct 92 17:36:45 GMT
Reply-To: SHAPIROB@OUACCVMA.bitnet
Distribution: alt
Organization: FUNET-NGW

Subject: cd-roms and OS/2

A friend has just ordered a new PC from Standard Computer. In it he has
ordered a CD-Rom drive. The only gotcha being that he intends to run
OS/2 on this system.

I would like to gather information prior to the arrival of the computer
on what it takes to be able to install and use the CDROM under OS/2.
Anyone out there want to give me an idea of the problems you have had
doing this?

All help will be greatly appreciated.

Brian

------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Brian D. Shapiro                             :SHAPIROB@OUACCVMA.BITNET
Ohio University Computing & Technology Svcs. :SHAPIRO@OUACCVMB.BITNET
220 Haning Hall                              :shapiro@fuzzytop.ucls.ohiou.edu
Athens, Ohio  45701        Ph:(614) 593-0176 :shapiro@oucsace.cs.ohiou.edu
Newsgroups: alt.cd-rom
From: mesm@netcom.com (Mary E. S. Morris)
Subject: Sun Patch for MO drives
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services  (408 241-9760 guest) 
Date: Fri, 2 Oct 1992 17:51:05 GMT

I could have sworn that I saw a kernel patch posted for Sun
systems so that they could use MO drives. It appears to be gone
now. Could someone please repost this or mail me a copy. Thanks.

--
Mary E. S. Morris    |  The future exists first in imagination, then
mesm@netcom.COM      |  in will, then in reality. -- Galivan Burwell
=====================================================================
Netcom - Online Communication Services San Jose, CA
From: adrie@ica.philips.nl (Adrie Koolen)
Newsgroups: alt.cd-rom
Subject: Re: NEC CD-ROM drives
Date: 28 Sep 92 13:24:53 GMT
Distribution: world,local
Organization: Philips Consumer Electronics, Eindhoven, The Netherlands

In article <Bv79vI.AB0@news.cso.uiuc.edu> berger@atropa (Mike Berger) writes:
>tswanson@misvax.mis.arizona.edu (QUIS CUSTODIET IPSOS CUSTODES.) writes:
>>I'm getting the itch to buy a CD-ROM drive and have pretty much settled on
>>an NEC 74 or 84.  Is there any difference between the two drives besides
>>external vs. internal (and price)?
>
>>I thought they were the same, but was a little confused by a recent post
>>that said the 74 had better buffering.  
>
>>I'd also be interested in general opinions of the drives' performance,
>>particularly with handling multimedia apps.
>*----
>The drives are v-e-r-y fast.  The CDR-74/84 are identical except for
>external vs. internal.  You may be confused by the previous models,
>CDR-73/83, which meet multimedia specs but do their buffering 
>poorly.  The CDR-73M/83M correct that deficiency.

Indeed, the CDR-84 can sustain a high transfer rate of over 300KB/s (mode 1
blocks). Maybe I'm wrong, but I'm under the impression that they spin at
just over twice the normal speed. The only problem I have with the CDR-84
is that it needs a lot of time to decode commands and execute them. If you
send a CDB to read a block (sector or frame), it reads the CDB (6 or 10
bytes) very slowly (takes more than 3ms) and needs a lot of time to deliver
the first data bytes (some 10ms!). This is when the data is known to be in
the CDR-84's internal cache so it doesn't need to read it from the disc.
When it's transferring the data bytes, it goes very fast, so you can get a
high throughput if you read enough blocks per request.

I know that the NEC microcontrollers (I believe that they use 3 of them on
the CDR-84) are not that fast, but 10ms to get the first byte from an
internel cache is very slow!

A slight shortcomming of the NEC CDROM drives is that they can't logically
divide a 2048 bytes mode 1 block into 4 logical 512 byte blocks. The Sun
SparcStation (and maybe also some other workstations) likes a drive that
can do that.

Adrie Koolen (adrie@ica.philips.nl)
Philips Consumer Electronics, Eindhoven, the Netherlands
From: dclunie@sirius.ucs.adelaide.edu.au (David Clunie)
Newsgroups: alt.cd-rom
Subject: PhotoCD service in Australia ?
Date: 26 Sep 92 00:01:23 GMT
Organization: Her Master's Voice
NNTP-Posting-Host: sirius.itd.adelaide.edu.au


Does anyone know if Kodak is going to/does provide the PhotoCD service
in Australia ?

Are there any third party vendors who will provide a similar service
and make PhotoCD disks from ones slides ?

And finally, are Kodak as finicky about the subject matter as they
are/were/are alleged to be about conventional processing, for us
budding digital Mapplethorpe's ?

david
-- 
David Clunie (dclunie@itd.adelaide.edu.au)
From: stevem@neftis.CSS.GOV (Steve Masters)
Newsgroups: alt.cd-rom
Subject: Re: nasa cdrom
Date: 29 Sep 92 15:05:35 GMT
Organization: ENSCO, Inc., Melbourne, FL

In article <75070004@hpcvra.cv.hp.com> everett@hpcvra.cv.hp.com (Everett Kaser) writes:
>
>In what format are the images stored, and what type of software is included
>on the discs for viewing the images, and on what platforms does this software
>run?
>
Another followup posting lists the many astronomical data CDROMS available
with ordering information.  The Voyager CDROMs (and presumably all of the
others on the list) are formatted in the ISO-9660 standard. I have read them
on an Amiga PC as well as Sun and IBM RS-6000 workstations.  The software
that comes for IBM-PC's is very nice and well done and gives you interactive
control over viewing the images.  On my Amiga (and Unix machines), I
use the PBMPLUS suite of programs.  They handle the FITS format the
images are stored in and provide some flexible, if not interactive,
image processing capabilities and will transform the FITS files to
the IFF or X or whatever format I need.

The Voyager CDROMs actually come in a compressed format.  A C-language
program's source code (which compiled without problems on both the
Sun and Amiga) is provided with the CD-ROM to uncomporess to the FITS
format.

Steve Masters     stevem@osiris.CSS.GOV
ENSCO, Inc.
Melbourne, FL  32940
From: SERTEL@DGOGWDG1.BITNET (suitbert ertel)
Newsgroups: alt.cd-rom
Subject: city populations
Date: 1 Oct 92 14:39:42 GMT
Reply-To: suitbert ertel <SERTEL@DGOGWDG1.bitnet>
Distribution: alt
Organization: FUNET-NGW

I just read a very useful answer to my request
regarding databases providing population
numbers etc. of cities and places. When
trying to save it I deleted it by mistake.
I would appreciate very much a copy of
that posting. Sorry...

Suitbert Ertel
From: george@RANKIN.LIB.UMT.EDU ("george@rankin.lib.umt.edu")
Newsgroups: alt.cd-rom
Subject: Re: INFOSERVER 150 advice sought
Date: 29 Sep 92 18:06:37 GMT
Reply-To: "george@rankin.lib.umt.edu" <george@RANKIN.LIB.UMT.EDU>
Distribution: alt
Organization: FUNET-NGW

*  Does it have to be SCSI-2?  What is SCSI-2?
	The players need to be scsi-2 in order to work correctly with the
	scsi-2 bus in the InfoServer.  Scsi-2 is simply an extension of
	scsi, but I don't know more.

*  Has anyone had success mounting ans searching Dialog products?
	Sorry, we don't have that one? Is it an ISO9660 formatted CD?

* What about UMI, and other vendor products, are people mounting them via
* the Infoserver?
	We have mounted Silver Platter, Wilson, Compac Disclosure, ABC-CLIO
	(running Dataware), InfoTrac, and WLN LaserCat.

* 4.  Ar people using the Infoserver client software to search the Cds or
*  Path-works?
	We use Pathworks for everything.

		Let me know if I can be more specific or general ;-) George
==============================================================================
George Yobst, Automation Specialist                Internet:
Mansfield Library                                    GEORGE@RANKIN.LIB.UMT.EDU
University of Montana       Phone: (406) 243-2539  MUSEnet:
Missoula, MT 59812-1195     FAX:   (406) 243-2060    RANKIN::GEORGE
'If you want to make enemies, try to change something.' - Woodrow Wilson
Newsgroups: alt.cd-rom
From: gomide@FPSP.FAPESP.BR
Subject: Apologies re: InterMeta course
Reply-To: gomide@BRFAPQ.bitnet
Organization: FUNET-NGW
Distribution: alt
Date: Mon, 28 Sep 1992 20:52:51 GMT

PLEASE DO NOT SEND MONEY !
It is with regret that I perform this task. Dr. Gelson V. Gomes. a
professor of the University of Parana, Brazil, has exceeded this
privileges and announced a eletronic course:

> ____________________________________________________________
>        Mastering INTERNET Tools, Seizing METANET Power -
>                      The InterMeta Course
> ____________________________________________________________

I must apologize for this flagrant breach of network etiquette. Please
be aware that Dr. Gelson had no right to do so, since this is against
the rules of our ANSP network, and also against the Bitnet rules.
PLEASE DO NOT SEND MONEY!
I will not discuss what his motivations were. But his account has been
revoked, and there will be no such course through my network.

Please write by normal mail, to:
-> Gelson V. Gomes
-> 358, R. Alvaro Andrade - ap.1201
-> Curitiba PR BRAZIL 80610-240
to get more information on his objectives. He may want to give the
course by normal mail.  :-)

With regards,
--
Alberto Courrege Gomide | Fundacao de Amparo `a Pesquisa - (11)831-3357
Software Supervisor     | Rua Pio XI, 1500 - CEP 05468-901 - Sao Paulo
<gomide@fapq.fapesp.br> | FAX (11)261-4167 Telex (11)82014 - Brazil
(ACG8) - .BR Domain Technical Contact. |
--
Newsgroups: alt.cd-rom
From: mesm@netcom.com (Mary E. S. Morris)
Subject: Re: CD-ROM Audio on RS/6000
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services  (408 241-9760 guest) 
Date: Wed, 30 Sep 1992 04:04:13 GMT

reiling@SMTC.engr.scarolina.edu writes:
: I am looking for a utility to play audio CDs on my RS/6000 running AIX 3.2.
: I'm not clear if that capability is included with the AIX OS or if I need
: an add-on UNIX program. There's no help in INFO Explorer regarding audio
: so I suspect its an extra option for IBM. 
: 
Ask IBM. At the last place that I worked we got it from the CE
that came out to fix things.
--
Mary E. S. Morris    |  The future exists first in imagination, then
mesm@netcom.COM      |  in will, then in reality. -- Galivan Burwell
=====================================================================
Netcom - Online Communication Services San Jose, CA
Newsgroups: alt.cd-rom,alt.sys.sun,comp.sys.sun.apps,comp.sys.sun.misc
From: esimon@wd.estec.nl (Erik Simonsen)
Subject: Help! Problem with reading ISO9660 CD-ROM on SUN?
Keywords: ISO9660 CD-ROM
Reply-To: esimon@wd.estec.esa.nl
Organization: ESA/ESTEC
Date: 28 Sep 92 09:14:09 GMT

Can anybody tell me how to read CD-ROM's in ISO9660 from a SUN?

My CD's are with PDS (Planetary Data System) data from 
JPL (Jet Propulsion Laboratory). Does anybody know about particular
problems with reading these CDs?

I mount the CD with the command

    mount -r -t hsfs /dev/sr0 /cdrom

after which it is possible to see a number of sub-directories. 
Descending in one of them, I expect to see some files but get
the following error message occurs:

	hsfs: filetype (0x8) not supported

System:	SUN SPARC sun4c
	SUNOS 4.1.1

Thank in advance for any hints...	
----
Erik Simonsen, ESA/ESTEC WDP                __  __   _  European
Postbus 299, 2200 AG Noordwijk             /_  (_   /_| Space
Phone: +31 1719 3133 Fax: +31 1719 84295  /__  __) /  | Agency
E-mail: esimon@wd.estec.esa.nl           =======================

--
Erik Simonsen, ESA/ESTEC WDP                __  __   _  European
Postbus 299, 2200 AG Noordwijk             /_  (_   /_| Space
Phone: +31 1719 3133 Fax: +31 1719 84295  /__  __) /  | Agency
E-mail: esimon@wd.estec.esa.nl           =======================
Newsgroups: alt.cd-rom
From: berger@atropa (Mike Berger)
Subject: Re: NEC CD-ROM drives
Organization: University of Illinois at Urbana
Distribution: world,local
Date: Mon, 5 Oct 1992 14:31:53 GMT

eric@tantalus.nrl.navy.mil (Eric Youngdale) writes:
>	Well that works just fine if you are using MS-DOG, but those of us
>using various variants of unix are screwed.  We need a consistent set of SCSI
>commands for the audio, and it does not really cut it to have each drive use
>a proprietary non-standard set of commands.
*----
What's your point?  I've been using Unix since 1975, and at that
time, even SCSI and SMD disk command sets weren't consistent or
standard.  It's not that I don't agree with you - it's just that
some of us aren't willing to wait until everything is a mature
standard before purchasing equipment.  By that time its mostly
obsolete!  In your case, just constrain yourself to the limited
subset of peripherals that your operating system provider supports,
and you won't have any cause to complain.  Or wait another year
or two, and by then the genuine SCSI-II complaint units should 
be available.

Actually, I thought the MSCDEX extentions did a good job of
hiding the low-level command set differences of CD-ROMs.  A
similar standard for Unix could be just as effective.
--
	Mike Berger
	Department of Statistics, University of Illinois
	AT&TNET     217-244-6067
	Internet    berger@atropa.stat.uiuc.edu
Newsgroups: alt.cd-rom
From: patel@mwunix (Anup C. Patel)
Subject: DIR on a CD-ROM
Organization: MITRE Corporation, McLean VA
Date: Thu, 1 Oct 1992 12:34:21 GMT

Here's my situation.  I have a Apple CD-ROM (basically a Sony mechanism),    
connected to an Adaptec 1542 SCSI interface, and using the ASPI4DOS.SYS and
ASWCDSNY.SYS drivers.

When I initially insert a CD in the reader and do a DIR, the CD directory is
correct.  However if I eject the CD and replace it with a totally different
CD, the file directory that is diplayed is the same as the first CD.

This problem is corrected if I do the following.    
1. Eject the second CD.
2. Do a DIR without a CD in the reader.
   At this time I get a 'CDR101: Not ready reading drive D' error.
3. I insert the second CD, and press 'R'etry.
4. The correct file directory appears.

So the questions is, why is this happening?  My older Hitachi drive did not do
this - it worked flawlessly.

Thanks for any assistance.
From: gess@knex.Gwinnett.COM (Gess Shankar)
Newsgroups: alt.cd-rom
Subject: CD-Rom publishing issues List/NewsGroup
Date: 4 Oct 92 22:28:33 GMT
Organization: Knowledge Exchange, GA, US of A

Some moons ago, there was some discussion about the possibility of
forming a newsgroup and/or email list to discuss publishing aspects
of CD-Rom including equipment, service providers, replicators etc.

Did this ever come to pass? Was there sufficient interest?

GeSS
--
Gess Shankar      |<><>|Internet: gess@knex.Gwinnett.COM                |<><>|
Knowledge Exchange|<><>|{rutgers,ogicse,gatech}!emory!gwinnett!knex!gess|<><>|
Newsgroups: alt.cd-rom
From: mark@mozart.demon.co.uk (Mark Whalley)
Subject: Microsoft Developer Network CD-ROM Pre-Release 1 
Distribution: world
Organization: tp
Date: Sat, 26 Sep 1992 18:07:28 +0000


In article <9209230345.AA27919@quaestor> gloster@INFERENCE.COM writes:

>
>Today I got the Microsoft Developer Network CD-ROM Pre-Release 1.  The
>
..

>In the US it can be purchased for $40 from Microsoft.  That gets you
>the disc I have, another (more complete) pre-release later in the
>year, and the commercial release the first part of next year.  They
>are intended to be released quarterly after that, with an unspecified
>yearly subscription fee.
>

Has anybody spoken to MS here in the UK about pricing for single CD's. The
only info I got from MS in relation to the Developer Network was a "special"
offer for about 800 ukp (which included a CD drive).


---------------------------------------------------
| Mark Whalley    Email : mark@mozart.demon.co.uk |
| Widnes          Fax   : Not yet!                |
| England         Tel   : +44 51 423 5242         |
---------------------------------------------------
From: gess@knex.Gwinnett.COM (Gess Shankar)
Newsgroups: alt.cd-rom
Subject: Re: Writable CD-ROM technology for music
Date: 28 Sep 92 13:56:55 GMT
Organization: Knowledge Exchange, GA, US of A

ajayshah@almaak.usc.edu (Ajay Shah) writes:

> I guess it's just a matter of time, but isn't it time to do
> a service which puts a collection of music onto a CD for you?
> 
> Even at a price like $30 per CD it would still be a big win from
> the consumer's viewpoint.  I'm sometimes reduced to buying a CD
> for just one track :-)
> 
> This may well give major volumes to writeable CD technology.
> 
> (This concept already exists for making custom tapes).
> 
>         -ans.
> -- 

What about ASCAP, copyright, royalty issues.... if such a thing can be
done commercially?

GeSS
--
Gess Shankar      |<><>|Internet: gess@knex.Gwinnett.COM                |<><>|
Knowledge Exchange|<><>|{rutgers,ogicse,gatech}!emory!gwinnett!knex!gess|<><>|
Newsgroups: alt.cd-rom
From: av@omega.ssw.de (Andreas Vogel)
Subject: Re: NEC CD-ROM drives
Date: Wed, 30 Sep 1992 18:24:18 GMT
Distribution: world,local
Organization: Omega Softlab

In article <26SEP199200145361@misvax.mis.arizona.edu> tswanson@misvax.mis.arizona.edu (QUIS CUSTODIET IPSOS CUSTODES.) writes:
>I'm getting the itch to buy a CD-ROM drive and have pretty much settled on
>an NEC 74 or 84.  Is there any difference between the two drives besides
>external vs. internal (and price)?

No differences.

>I thought they were the same, but was a little confused by a recent post
>that said the 74 had better buffering.  

This is really new to me.

>I'd also be interested in general opinions of the drives' performance,
>particularly with handling multimedia apps.

I don't use multimedia apps currently, but accessing data disks is
really fast. The transfer rate is fast too.

The only hack with this drive is that NEC is using non-standard SCSI
commands for audio control. So you have to use NEC drivers or you are on
your own if you want to play music with it.

Maybe the new Toshiba drive is a better alternative. Depends on what you
want to do with it: data or music.

-- 
Andreas Vogel                   Bahnhofstr. 13 / D-7300 Esslingen / Germany
				Voice:  +49-711/357613
				E-Mail: av@ssw.de
From: everett@hpcvra.cv.hp.com (Everett Kaser)
Date: Mon, 28 Sep 1992 15:48:26 GMT
Subject: Re: nasa cdrom
Organization: Hewlett-Packard Co., Corvallis, OR, USA
Newsgroups: alt.cd-rom

stevem@neftis.CSS.GOV (Steve Masters) writes... 
>NASA Space Science Data Center
>Code 933.4
>NASA Goddard Space Flight Center
>Greenbelt, MD  USA  20771
>Phone (voice) 301 286 6695

>The Voyager CDROMs are a great value (US $86 for the 12 discs) and are fun
>to work with.  CDROMs from Magellan and Viking are also available.

Steve,

In what format are the images stored, and what type of software is included
on the discs for viewing the images, and on what platforms does this software
run?

Thanks,

** Everett Kaser                   Hewlett-Packard Company
** ...hplabs!hp-pcd!everett        work: (503) 750-3569   Corvallis, Oregon
** everett@hpcvra.cv.hp.com        "Today is a good day for change."
Newsgroups: alt.cd-rom
From: wally@netcom.com (Wally Schwarz)
Subject: Pressing ROMs
Date: Mon, 28 Sep 92 04:57:26 GMT
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services  (408 241-9760 guest) 
Followup-To: wally@netcom.com

I read thru all of the messages in alt.cd-rom and didn't see a single message
regarding the mastering and pressing of rom's.

Is there a FAQ or listing that tells of which companies will do glass masters
and what their pricing is?

Thanks,
Wally@netcom.com

-- 
Wally Schwarz                               Wally World BBS
2228 S El Camino Real #40                   415/349-6969/V.32
San Mateo, CA 94403-1853                    415/349-8408/V.32bis
                                            415/349-8375/USR Dual Standard
From: kirk.jensen@spacebbs.com (Kirk Jensen) 
Newsgroups: alt.cd-rom
Subject: (none)
Date: 28 Sep 92 07:33:00 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: SPACE BBS - Menlo Park, CA - 10 Lines + 4gB - 415-323-4193
Reply-To: kirk.jensen@spacebbs.com (Kirk Jensen) 

SA>Does anyone have any information regarding the SONY CDU-561 CD-ROM reader?
SA>I understand it was supposed to ship by September 1992.  How does it
SA>compare with the NEC CDR-84 in price/performance?

New date is January 1993. It is supposed to support XA and 300kb (maybe more)
transfer rates. 

SA>Also can anyone reccomend a good encyclopedia on CD.  I have heard that
SA>encyclopedias on cd tend to be shallow.  How is the Compton's Multimedia
SA>Encyclopedia?

If you want information, and not pretty pictures and sound, the Grollier's
(also sold by Software Toolworks) is at least as good as Comptons. In fact, 
you can save some money and just buy the non-MM version, which has all the 
text. None of these are equal to the Britanica, but they are still not on
CD.
 
---
 . KingQWK 1.05 # 141 .