From: mkkuhner@phylo.genetics.washington.edu (Mary K. Kuhner)
Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.misc
Subject: Re: SR: Spider Totem
Date: 12 Oct 92 21:00:23 GMT
Article-I.D.: u.1992Oct12.210023.26795
Organization: University of Washington, Seattle

In article <lward.718915970@husc8> lward@husc8.harvard.edu (Lester Ward) writes:

>Someone has to say it: spiders are not insects.

I know, sorry; it was easier than saying 'arthropod totems'.

>More relevent, however, all of FASAs evil insects are insects which hive.

Isn't Fly one of FASA's Totems?  And there is brief mention of Mantis
and Spider, which are not obligatorily social, ah, arthropods, but which
the mention suggests are very nasty indeed.  (I'm told this is supported
in Chevrette's books and in the modules, but I've stopped buying them.)
The statement at the beginning of the Totems section is simply that
Arthropods are Evil.

>Another relevant facet of hiving is that when viewed as a whole, the hive
>behaves individually, but the members that make up that hive behave in a way
>which serves only to furthur the hive. When watching one of these members
>(much like watching our components of our own immune system), their behavior
>looks downright evil.  No morality.  No ethics. 

Individual members of the hive may look like this, but in SR the hive as
a whole is also selfishly dedicated to nothing but survival (at least I
don't see the UB doing much of anything else).  My own cells form a
collective just as slavishly devoted to my survival as the Insect
Spirits of a hive totem, but that doesn't necessarily mean I'm an evil
person (wicked grin).  You could have some interesting ambiguities here
involving whether it's okay for individual humans to be absorbed into
this collective, if the collective itself appears benevolent and moral,
and if the individuals are willing.  The UB could easily have been like
that, or at least some member hives could be.

Further, why the assumption that a hiving Insect Spirit must be on the
level of an individual insect?  If the hive is the actual entity,
perhaps there is a single Spirit that represents the group soul of a
Hive; and it could, presumably, be altruistic or selfish or somewhere in
between, just like a human.

>What I'm getting at here is that there is no reason why spiders or insects
>should be assumed to be evil because they are insects; it's the hiving that
>is evil.  A naked mole-rat totem would be "evil" probably, and they're
>not insects.

Inhuman and scary, for sure.  The FASA arthropods not only look out for
#1, they have this nasty inability to propagate except at the expense of
humans--reminiscent of the wasps which sting and paralyze insects to
feed their young--which makes them much more evil to us than they'd
otherwise be.  Naked mole rats who minded their own business...hm, would
we be able to get along with them?  It could be interesting.

*(BTW, Mary, would insect spirits be haplodiploid?)))

Do they reproduce?  If not the question seems rather moot.  Are there
any males at all?  I'm not sure the analogy with biological insects is
that close....

I agree with you that the specific Totem is more important than the
broad group it falls into; I'm just arguing for some range of variation
within each Totem, to model the diversity of cultures and views of the
creature that exist, and to keep PCs guessing.

Mary Kuhner mkkuhner@genetics.washington.edu
Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.misc