HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.slovak-l
Date:         Thu, 13 Aug 1992 09:33:00 CET
From:         "Jaroslav Fukala <XIB@IAEA1>" <XIB@IAEA1.BITNET>
Subject: Re: your mail

Mr. Kubaska writes:

> Bravo! (to use H.K.'s word)
> Finaly some Czech friend made it clear.

Sorry about that, I am not Czech.

> Mr. Fukala writes: "..a Czech goverment (led by Mr.Calfa).."
> That means:
>   Federal=Czech

Here is the relevent part of my original message again, now with
important words underlined:
**  BEGIN  **
Mr. Frajkor writes:
------------------
>                                                        I never did
> trust Rita Klimova, Miroslav Kusy, Vladimir Dlouhy, Marian Calfa, Jiri
> Dienstbier and the rest of those Communists Havel and the Czech
                                                            -----
> government put into positions of trust.
>
I never did trust them because they were Communists. Their appointment
by a Czech government (led by Mr. Calfa), or their Slovak/Czech origin
was absolutely unimportant.
**  END  **

I dared to copy Mr. Frajkor's words and I also pointed out that HE had
called the government led by Mr. Calfa 'Czech'. I apologize.

> I hope it will be no more.

I promise.
Regards, Jaroslav Fukala       <XIB@IAEA1>
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Date:         Thu, 13 Aug 1992 00:09:45 DST
From:         Jan Szelepcsenyi <janszel@POSEN.MFF.UNIBA.CS>
Subject:      Re: Brave new world
X-To:         Discussion of Slovak issues <SLOVAK-L@UBVM.cc.buffalo.edu>

> 	J.G. Frajkor:
>	... Marion Kleiss is less likely to keep his job...

The TV Council asked Kleiss to prepare for the next meeting an
report about the ideas and targets, which are in the news and
other TV programs followed by the contemporary directory board
(i.e. the manager general and the chief producers of the
different productions centers). In a detailled discussion he
learned the expectations of the Council members. No one had a
non-democratic demand.

By the way: his first name is "Marian"; Marion is in Slovakia
(and probably not only in Slovakia) a femal name...

Hi!

Jan
--
Jan Szelepcsenyi                        	Telephone: + 42 7 220863
janszel@posen.mff.uniba.cs              	Address  : ul. A. Mraza 4
                                                	   821 03 Bratislava
							   Czechoslovakia
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Date:         Wed, 19 Aug 1992 07:23:04 +0100
From:         KUBASKA@CSBBYS51.BITNET
Subject:      Re: Choosing nationalities

Everybody is free to make his own decicion about nationality in Slovakia.
That means, that everybody can declare himself to be Slovak, Magyar
, Czech or Gypsie no matter of his ethnic origin.
You will not obtain Hungarian citiezenship by declaring yourself Magyar,
of course.

Marian KUBaska
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Date:         Mon, 17 Aug 1992 20:19:18 EST
From:         HAMMERL@UCS.INDIANA.EDU
Subject:      Dusan Slobodnik

A few weeks ago, I posted Skvorecky's article, "After the
Velvet Revolution," which had appeared on the New York Times
Op-Ed page.  Today I was very pleased to see a letter to the
editor responding to the article.  Here is the letter.

August 7, 1992 (pg. A18)

To the Editor:

	In "After the Velvet Revolution" (Op-Ed, July 20),
Josef Skvorecky distorts my past, which I described in
"Paragraph: Polar Circle," published in 1991 in Slovakia.
	Mr. Skvorecky speaks of my "sinister past," although
my single fault was that I spent about two weeks in March
1945 in the secret Slovak military school on the basis of a
letter of induction, not having "volunteered", as Mr.
Skvorecky says.  Where Mr. Skvorecky got the information
that I was in the SS is a problem for his conscience.  After
my expulsion from the training camp because I objected to
its character, without having committed anything, I returned
home.
	For the two weeks in the training camp, as confirmed
by documents I received from the Czechoslovak Embassy in
Moscow, I was sentenced by the Soviet military court in May
1945 to 15 years in the gulag.  I returned to Slovakia after
nine years and was later rehabilitated by the Supreme Court
of the Soviet Union (1960).
	I have never been a member of the Hlinka Guards (in
MAy 1944 I was a 17 year-old pupil in a high school in
Zvolen); allegations of K.G.B. membership are lies.  No
journalist ever affirmed it.  My nine years in the gulag
were years of hard work in the special gulag for "dangerous
political enemies."

			Dusan Slobodnik
			Minister of Culture, Slovak Republic
			Bratislava, Czechoslovakia
			Aug. 1, 1992

***********************************************************

I would like to add that it is very important for Slovaks to
write to the New York Times, because their coverage has been
anti-Slovak during the past year.  Several of us have
written letters to the Times to correct errors, but of
course, more people read the articles than the letters, and
the corrections are not always noted.

There was an anti-Meciar article in last week's Times.  I
had intended to post it over the weekend, but our computer
was down.  I may still try to do it before I leave town on
Wednesday.

Louise Hammer
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Date:         Fri, 14 Aug 1992 16:17:15 EDT
From:         George Frajkor <gfrajkor@CCS.CARLETON.CA>
Subject:      Re: Do you trust Meciar?
X-To:         SLOVAK-L@UBVM.cc.buffalo.edu
X-cc:         Mideur-L <Mideur-L@ubvm.BITNET>
              "TKMARC@UUNET.UU.NET" at Aug 13, 92 1:48 pm

lhdsy1!HOVMB.HOU281.CHEVRON.COM!TKMARC@UUNET.UU.NET writes:
>
> >>>After all, a renamed communist
> >>> party is not a communist party, just like a repainted car is not a car.
> >>>
> >>     You're right and I'm glad we agree on something.  I never did
> >>trust Rita Klimova, Miroslav Kusy, Vladimir Dlouhy, Marian Calfa, Jiri
> >>Dienstbier and the rest of those Communists Havel and the Czech
> >>government put into positions of trust.
> >
> >True, some of the ex-communists named above fared very poorly.
> >Things might have been different (better) for C-S if they had been
> >kept out. Maybe we can agree on more: what about Meciar and other
> >Communists in the present Slovak govt--do you trust them?
>
> Mr Frajkor: did I miss your response to the question immediately above?

      You must have. I replied that I do not trust any former
communist except those with whom I have enough personal experience to
be able to make a judgement, or those whose public actions have
indicated they can be trusted.
  But to expand on that, Dubcek and Meciar, for example, were
expelled from the Communist party a long time ago... i presume the
Communists know who their enemies are.   On the other hand, people
like Calfa, Dlouhy, etc not only were never expelled, but stuck with
the party until it was clear the case was hopeless.  I believe Dlouhy
did not resign until November 1989 and Calfa a month later.  But, as I
said in another message, the people you really have to worry about are
not so much the politicians and the parties, as they are public. It is
the ex(?)-commies in high positions in industry and public
institutions that are a greater danger.

    Jan George Frajkor
 School of Journalism                      _!_
 Carleton University,                     __!__
 Ottawa, Ontario                            !
 Canada K1S 5B6                             !
   -- gfrajkor@ccs.carleton.ca --          /^\
  613 788-7404     fax:613 788-5604    /^\/   \/^\
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Date:         Sat, 15 Aug 1992 09:44:31 PDT
From:         lhdsy1!HOVMB.HOU281.CHEVRON.COM!TKMARC@UUNET.UU.NET
Subject:      Re: Do you trust Meciar?
X-To:         uunet!ubvm.cc.buffalo.edu!slovak-l@uunet.UU.NET,
              uunet!ubvm.cc.buffalo.edu!mideur-l@uunet.UU.NET

>> >>     You're right and I'm glad we agree on something.  I never did
>> >>trust Rita Klimova, Miroslav Kusy, Vladimir Dlouhy, Marian Calfa, Jiri
>> >>Dienstbier and the rest of those Communists Havel and the Czech
>> >>government put into positions of trust.
>> >
>> >True, some of the ex-communists named above fared very poorly.
>> >Things might have been different (better) for C-S if they had been
>> >kept out. Maybe we can agree on more: what about Meciar and other
>> >Communists in the present Slovak govt--do you trust them?
>>
>> Mr Frajkor: did I miss your response to the question immediately above?
>
>      You must have. I replied that I do not trust any former
>communist except those with whom I have enough personal experience to
>be able to make a judgement, or those whose public actions have
>indicated they can be trusted.
>  But to expand on that, Dubcek and Meciar, for example, were
>expelled from the Communist party a long time ago... i presume the
>Communists know who their enemies are.

But Mr Frajkor, I'm sure I'm not the only one curious why do you
arbitrarily apply the "long time ago" criterion to Meciar and Dubcek,
but not to Klimova, Kusy, and Dienstbier...

--Kamil Marcinka (Internet address: tkmarc@hovmb.ion.chevron.com)
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Date:         Wed, 19 Aug 1992 08:10:34 +0100
From:         KUBASKA@CSBBYS51.BITNET
Subject:      Re: SDL - answer requested

Mr Szelepcsenyi,
I didn't mean to make a privilege from being young. I wanted to point
out that young people have nothing to do with communism in 50s.
I personaly know some people from SDL (no high positioned) and I
know their previous and current opinions.
Every man would have to stand his ground. And men from SDL do.
That doesn't mean that they pray to Marx's bible, because they oposed
hardliners in KSS before 89. It would be more easy for them to make
policy in VPN or HZDS, but they choose another and I believe the right
way.
And to SDL - SDSS  agreement. Men from SDSS are not very wise, they
had take it. THey thouht Slovaks believe in symbols, but they believe
in political programs, fortunately.

Other issues - agreement.

Respectfuly
  Marian Kubaska
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Date:         Thu, 13 Aug 1992 07:03:00 +0100
From:         KUBASKA@CSBBYS51.BITNET
Subject:      Re: DECLARATION OF SOVEREIGNTY

Mr Kucera,
would you explain me what the term "true Czechoslovak" means?

Marian Kubaska
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Date:         Wed, 12 Aug 1992 12:48:23 EDT
From:         Henry Kucera <HENRY@BROWNVM.BITNET>
Subject:      De-industralization

  I am puzzled by the repeated occurrence of the term "de-industrialization of
Slovakia". The latest statement to this effect can be found on this list today.
    The term entails, of course, that Slovakia was at one time
industrialized and then the industry was destroyed or a similar calamity. I
don't think that Slovakia was very industrialized while part of Hungary.
So could somebody tell me when the industrialization of Slovakia took
place, who was responsible for it and who later de-industrialized it and when?

 I am off to the mountains and the air will seem even fresher if I get the
usual enlightenment before I leave. Thanks, H.K.
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Date:         Wed, 12 Aug 1992 23:49:50 DST
From:         Jan Szelepcsenyi <janszel@POSEN.MFF.UNIBA.CS>
Subject:      Re: Information explosion in Slovakia
X-To:         Discussion of Slovak issues <SLOVAK-L@UBVM.cc.buffalo.edu>

I would like to present some first-hand information concerning
the TV weekly broadcasts of the PM.

On Monday, August 10th, it was the first meeting of the
"reconstructed" TV Council. I suppose, the Council found
a well ballanced compromise. It invited the Presidential
Board of the Slovak Parliament as well as the Prime Minister
and his both Deputy Prime Ministers to have a weekly broadcast.
The form of this broadcast will be negotiated between the
TV producer and the government officials. Strictly spoken
there is no legal reason to reject the demands of the PM
to have a regular opportunity to inform the public about
the new political subjects.

It seems, that at present the TV as well as the government
are satisfied with the solution found at the Council Meeting.

A little foodnote to the information of Mr Frajkor about the TV
i CSFR. Only the federal TV is a state organization.  The
national TV are "verejnopravne organizacie" , i.e.  institutions
of public law (sorry, I don't know the exact English equivalent
of this expression, but it means a status of an institution,
which has to fulfill its tasks under public control). This
non-symmetric situation is causing a lot of problems and
tensions, because the national governments are feeling comparing
to the federal government very handicaped in their possibilities
to influence the public meaning.

For the Slovak tax-payer it seems senseless to contribute to
the budget of an institution producing a lot of dezinformation
about Slovakia and its policy.


Best regards,

Jan
--
Jan Szelepcsenyi                        	Telephone: + 42 7 220863
janszel@posen.mff.uniba.cs              	Address  : ul. A. Mraza 4
                                                	   821 03 Bratislava
							   Czechoslovakia
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Date:         Wed, 19 Aug 1992 08:20:07 +0100
From:         KUBASKA@CSBBYS51.BITNET
Subject:      Re: Do you trust Meciar?

Dear Kamil,
This is a question of political attitude in present time and not
"long time ago" criterion.

Marian Kubaska.
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Date:         Thu, 13 Aug 1992 20:57:07 EDT
From:         George Frajkor <gfrajkor@CCS.CARLETON.CA>
Subject:      Re: PRAGUE CENTRALISM
X-To:         SLOVAK-L@UBVM.cc.buffalo.edu
              Szelepcsenyi" at Jul 31, 92 9:08 am

  Jan :
 I accidentally destroyed the message in which you gave figures from a
recent poll on how people felt about their living standards.  Can you
repeat it for me?  Servus
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Date:         Fri, 14 Aug 1992 08:05:45 PDT
From:         lhdsy1!HOVMB.HOU281.CHEVRON.COM!TKMARC@UUNET.UU.NET
Subject:      Jan's posting
X-To:         uunet!ubvm.cc.buffalo.edu!slovak-l@uunet.UU.NET

Jan:

Good analysis, I enjoyed reading it very much!

--Kamil Marcinka (Internet address: tkmarc@hovmb.ion.chevron.com)
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Date:         Wed, 19 Aug 1992 08:25:03 PDT
From:         lhdsy1!HOVMB.HOU281.CHEVRON.COM!TKMARC@UUNET.UU.NET
Subject:      Re: Do you trust Meciar
X-To:         uunet!ubvm.cc.buffalo.edu!slovak-l@uunet.UU.NET

>Dear Kamil,
>This is a question of political attitude in present time and not
>"long time ago" criterion.
>
>Marian Kubaska.

Dear Marian:

read the context of Mr Frajkors original comments.

--Kamil Marcinka (Internet address: tkmarc@hovmb.ion.chevron.com)
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Date:         Wed, 12 Aug 1992 10:08:09 PDT
From:         lhdsy1!HOVMB.HOU281.CHEVRON.COM!TKMARC@UUNET.UU.NET
Subject:      Choosing nationalities
X-To:         uunet!ubvm.cc.buffalo.edu!slovak-l@uunet.UU.NET

>Don't you think, that the choose of nationality is one of human's basic
>right?
>
>Marian Kubaska

Could you demonstrate to us how one chooses to be of Ethiopian nationality?

--Kamil Marcinka (Internet address: tkmarc@hovmb.ion.chevron.com)
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Date:         Thu, 13 Aug 1992 11:54:17 MDT
From:         Milan Jira <ULIMJ@CSEARN.BITNET>
Subject:      Personal opinion vs scientific arguments

On Mon, 10 Aug 1992 07:21:00 +0100  KUBASKA@CSBYSS51.BITNET

> Mr Szelepcsenyi, your contributions are, from my humble oppinion, the
> ones of the best on this list.
> ....
> ....
> In every other issue I fully agree with you.
>
> Marian Kubaska

Mr. Kubaska,

as one of the "most frequent contributors to the List", you should, to MY
opinion, use more scientific arguments (not opinions). If you scan
SLOVAK-L@UBVM you can see, that some of the subscribers are distiguished
professors or teachers of Czechoslovak (Czecho-Slovak) history. Their
contributions are as good as Mr. Szelepcsenyi & brothers. Are'n they?

    Yours Sincerely,

Milan Jira, M.D., Ph.D.
3rd Medical Faculty, Charles University                    }i}i
Prague, Czechoslovakia or Czecho-slovakia, or Czech and Slovak Republic
         (whatever you like or prefer to be at this e-mail)
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Date:         Thu, 20 Aug 1992 08:03:43 +0100
From:         KUBASKA@CSBBYS51.BITNET
Subject:      Re: Meciar

Really nice example how to bring facts out of their context:
  "...renationalized company..." Author probably means DANUBIAPRINT,
which privatisation under dim and strange circumstances met strong
criticizm in slovak independent press and public.
  "...he keep saying, that we must be united..." Author forget to say
that the unity, Mr. Meciar spoke about, is unity in pursuing national
interests not an unity in the political oppinions.
  " ...promised economical recovery...hopes that cannot be possibly
       met..." As far as I know Mr.Meciar never spoke about barbecued
turkeys falling from the sky. When he spoke about economical recovery
he allways emphasized the long and tough way to reach it.
Really nice example how to make an ant to be an elephant.
  "...Maria Kanska, member of political party, that initially led the
      fight against Communism in Slovakia..."  I have never heard about
      such person Maria Kanska till yet. I don't know what party have
author in mind. Whether colaborating parties before 89 or VPN- an mix
of opposition and in this case it is too stange to speak about POLITICAL
PARTY.
Really nice example how to give negative charge to positive stuff:
  "...any ethnic politicians, who roil national tension would be treated
      as political criminals..."  I think, that it is right.
  "... He speaks their language, think in their terms..." I think, that
it is first thing that a good politician have to understand his nation
and express himself in such way, that everybody could understand. Mr.
Carnogursky don't share this oppinion and that is one of reasons why he is
in such unpleasant and annoying position.


Marian Kubaska
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From: frysavy@crc.ac.uk (Francis Rysavy x3292)
Subject: Re: Do you trust Meciar?
Reply-To: frysavy@crc.ac.uk (Francis Rysavy x3292)
Organization: MRC-CRC, Harrow, UK
Date: Fri, 14 Aug 1992 16:40:46 GMT

In article <9208132203.AA27030@relay1.UU.NET>, lhdsy1!HOVMB.HOU281.CHEVRON.COM!TKMARC@UUNET.UU.NET writes:
> >>>After all, a renamed communist
> >>> party is not a communist party, just like a repainted car is not a car.
> >>>
> >>     You're right and I'm glad we agree on something.  I never did
> >>trust Rita Klimova, Miroslav Kusy, Vladimir Dlouhy, Marian Calfa, Jiri
> >>Dienstbier and the rest of those Communists Havel and the Czech
> >>government put into positions of trust.
> >
> >True, some of the ex-communists named above fared very poorly.
> >Things might have been different (better) for C-S if they had been
> >kept out. Maybe we can agree on more: what about Meciar and other
> >Communists in the present Slovak govt--do you trust them?
> 
> Mr Frajkor: did I miss your response to the question immediately above?
> 
> --Kamil Marcinka (Internet address: tkmarc@hovmb.ion.chevron.com)

Definitely an interesting question. I fear that the marxist, or communist 
influence in Czechoslovakia (Czecho-Slovakia) is the most destabilizing 
factor. However, I am less than well informed. Anybody care to comment ?
Jan Szelepcseneyi's answer to  Mr Kubaska gives a lot of food for thought.
They are in the midst of the happenings after all.

FRR
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Date:         Fri, 14 Aug 1992 10:26:53 -0400
From:         IVAN@PHYSICS.CARLETON.CA
Subject:      RE: De-industralization
X-To:         SLOVAK-L@UBVM.cc.buffalo.edu

>  I am puzzled by the repeated occurrence of the term "de-industrialization of
>Slovakia". The latest statement to this effect can be found on this list today.
>    The term entails, of course, that Slovakia was at one time
>industrialized and then the industry was destroyed or a similar calamity. I
>don't think that Slovakia was very industrialized while part of Hungary.
>So could somebody tell me when the industrialization of Slovakia took
>place, who was responsible for it and who later de-industrialized it and when?

> I am off to the mountains and the air will seem even fresher if I get the
>usual enlightenment before I leave. Thanks, H.k.

After Czecho-Slovakia was born, Slovaks received a lot of help from Czechs.
There were remarkable improvements in culture, educational system, public
institutions. Magyarization was stopped and young selfconfident Slovak
generation was formed at Bratislava and Prague universities.
   However, as we read from statistics, de-industrialization indeed took
place. As we were taught at school, Czech lands were the most industrialized
part of Austria and Slovakia the most industrialized part of Hungary (Uhorska).
The industrial character of Slovakia was given by its mountains rich in
ores. In the Middle Ages many Germans settled down in Slovakia and the
mining industry was begun, many Slovak towns have German origin, the first
mining university (in Europe ?) was founded in Banska Stiavnica.
   In 1918, Slovak industry was behind the Czech one. However, instead
of any progress, by 1925, Slovak factories, iron-works and glass-works
shut down in large numbers and industrial production fell down to 50 %
of the 1914 level. This resulted in massive emigration from Slovakia
(I read a couple weeks ago that according to 1990 statistics 1,800,000
US citizens claim to be Slovaks - I still cannot believe it) and, (one of the
reasons) in many Slovak emigrants not being happy about the common state
with Czechs.

                        Ivan Melo, Ottawa
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Date:         Sat, 15 Aug 1992 17:54:20 +0200
From:         Eric Thomas <ERIC@SEARN.BITNET>
Subject:      Re: :internet, VERS9209 NODUPD, and Poland
              15 Aug 1992 17:07:34 MET from Node Management <NODMGT-L@UGA>

On Sat, 15 Aug 1992 17:07:34 MET Ulrich Giese <U001213@HNYKUN11.URC.KUN.NL>
said:

>On Tue, 4 Aug 92 18:16:59 -0400 <jwagner@PRINCETON.EDU> said:
>>Given that anything.Bitnet (or .Earn/.Caren/.etc) is invalid as an internet
>>name it might be useful to test for these error cases.  This does not
>>validate that anything else is correct, but atleast it won't be wrong in this
>>fashion.
>
>ok. i will add that checking to VERNODES.

We ARE in a time loop. I will not repeat myself, so please:

1. Do NOT disable the use of nodeid.BITNET.

2. Read the archives of this list for 2-3 occurences of the very same
   cycle of arguments.

  Eric
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