From: jodar@girtab.usc.edu (Nicholas Jodar)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
Subject: Re: On Surpassing Einstein
Date: 7 Apr 1992 04:27:55 -0700
Organization: University of Southern California, Los Angeles, CA
NNTP-Posting-Host: girtab.usc.edu
Summary: There IS a Way, But That Isn't It....
Keywords: Knowledge

In article <1992Apr6.175610.8782@cs.uoregon.edu> pdm@sisters.cs.uoregon.edu (peter d. mark) writes:

>the above exchange illustrates perfectly the schism between traditional
>religious jewish thinking (at least as put forth by hayim) and modern
>secular thought based on rational, scientific thought:
>
>human history, according to the religious view, is the history of
>forgetting.  at the revelation at sinai, the sages knew everything
>that was/is ever possible to know, and since then we have forgotten
>more and more, until now, when we practically know nothing.  knowledge 
>and understanding are not acquired through experimentation and discovery 
>or discussion and debate, but rather obtained from the sages of old who 
>were closer to prophesy and revelation.

>the modern scientific/humanistic mind takes the opposite viewpoint: the 
>course of human affairs is marked by the expansion of collective knowledge 
>by a spirit of free enquiry and open debate, and the application of human
>creativity, resourcefulness, and intelligence.  according to the secular
>humanist mindset, one has an obligation to decide moral questions according 
>to the dictates of one's own conscience rather than relying on authoritative 
>pronouncements of religious leaders, past or present.

And yet it would seem to me that neither view is correct.

At the point of revelation, the Moses (PBUH) himself did NOT 
know 'everything.'  It is true, however, that he knew that which
was most important to know.  It is a surety that the knowledge he
had has been lost, then rediscovered, time and time again.
Indeed, a father cannot even give his son the knowledge he has
acquired over many years of often painful toil.  This propensity
for 'rediscovering the wheel' every couple of generations can
only be countered by careful preservation of knowledge and its
constant reference.  As a famous quote puts it, 'Those who do not
know history are doomed to repeat it.'

This is why, while 'one has an obligation to decide moral 
questions according to the dictates of one's own conscience,' one 
should not reject pronouncements of others (religious or not)
without extremely careful study.  One should not reject the whole
without first making certain there is nothing of value contained
therein, and then it can safely be relegated to the back shelf of
the library.  (The nonsensical activity of burning books 
continues to be practiced even unto this day and age, alas.)

Truth is a needle in a proverbial haystack of lies.  The only
sure way to find it is to sift through it one straw at a time
until we are done.  Keeping record of which straws have been
examined and placed aside is the only realistic way to proceed.
Referring to the work of others who have already sifted through
the pile greatly increases the chance of success.  But if one
searching never bothers to take note, the next person must start
over again with the first straw.

How much knowledge has been lost because the one who knew it
never recorded it in a lasting manner?

How much knowledge have we failed to gain because somebody on the
brink of discovery was convinced of impossibility?

How many times must we learn, quite painfully, by making the 
same mistakes those before us made, simply because we rejected
their experience?

In a world where books are burned and pursuit of knowledge is only
for those who are willing to endure persecution, it is no wonder
that we are still struggling to rediscover the knowledge which we
once had.  Science, religion, politics, ecology...  Not in any 
field have we approached the knowledge we once had!  When will we
learn?!

>to the extent that hayim's pessimististic view represents the views of 
>orthodox judaism in general (does it?), i find it troubling.
>
>peter mark
>pdm@cs.uoregon.edu

You're not the only one....

-Nick

Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish