From: dont@execu.execu.com (Don Thompson)
Newsgroups: talk.politics.guns
Subject: Re: No charges filed in SWAT killing
Summary: We are all responsible
Date: 17 Aug 92 17:52:07 GMT
Organization: Austin Dev. Center, Comshare Inc.




viking@iastate.edu (Dan Sorenson) in article 41126 writes

#Just as civilians are killed in a war, so are
#civilians killed in police raids.  I accept both, but I do not *at
#all* condone either.

Totally unacceptable. Wars involve outside forces intending to
conquer another nation ( like the Nazis ) or to force that nation to bend
to the will of another ( or others, like the Gulf war ).

The police and other law enforcement agencies are here to Protect and Serve
as the LAPD puts it. Realistically, they are to enforce the law, which in
most cases is a reactive function; break a law, get caught , go to jail.
( Yeah right, in our dreams ). To say that civilian casualties are
acceptable but undesirable is  not acceptable. The life of the innocent is
of paramount importance and police actions should be orchestrated around 
that idea ( fact? ). Even to the point of endangering the police officer. 
That is for what they are trained and paid. Besides, there are always 
alternativesto busting down the door.

#You referenced the Nuremburg trials
#before -- what makes you think the private questions the reasons of the
#general?  You don't.  It's said, you do it, unless you have a very good
#reason to disobey that order.  Tony was given information relevant to his
#job, and made his decisions on that.  Given only that info, what would
#you have done?

That is what the Nuremberg trials were all about. That a person must
recognize that there are some directives that must be questioned and
possibly refused.

Did Tony ask if the guy lived there by himself, if there was a 
possibility of a family? Did his superiors even think of finding this
out? Did they stake out the house? CouldnUt they have waited until they
were sure that he was in there and no one else? If they had just waited
until noon the next day, they couldnUt have missed seeing the kids. Were
there clues at the scene? Was there a tricycle, wagon, baseballs, etc. 
in the yard? I should think any peace officer would see such and wonder. 

Yes, it sounds like a Monday morning quarterback, but I believe these
questions are relevant and the options reasonable.


#I do wish to
#wonder whether it was murder 1, as you imply, or manslaughter.

#Given the same, I
#would hope for a board if inquiry and then a fair trial,

Since there will apparently be no trial, we will never know.


#It is nt fair to make one cop's mistake paid for by an entire city.

If that cop's mistake was the result of the training and/or actions of 
the department then everyone from that cop, his superiors, their 
superiors, all the way to the electorate, are responsible.


#One wonders which is more important, the life of one or the power
#of a majority

Without a doubt, the life of one. If the rights of the one are diminished,
then the rights of the many are diminished many-fold . If the one cannot 
be safe from the authorities, then how can the many? For the many are the 
sum of the one.


We are all familiar with the concept of stand together or die alone. If 
it's OK for this mistake to happen to someone else, then it's OK for that 
mistake to happen to you.

What has happened is a tragedy for everyone involved in the incident. 
Unfortunately, a tragedy for the cop and the victims is just an 
embarrassment for the superiors and merely a an unfortunate incident 
for those even higher up. For the politicians, it is just a potential
impediment to the next election. By the time you get to the voters,it's 
just another screw up by the government, but , oh well, it happened in 
a bad part of town, or to a lowlife, or they asked for it, or....People 
may be outraged or disgusted, but never enough to become active in the 
political process. They never have the time to vote let alone volunteer 
for a candidate. ( I must confess that although I do vote,I have never
volunteered for a campaign ).

So what can get them ( us ) motivated? Money. Their money. Hurt'em in 
the pocket book and they'll ( we'll ) look for the SOBs responsible. 

If no one in a community is willing stand up a say "This is wrong" 
because an innocent victim is dead, a child is without a mother, 
a husband without a wife, then perhaps they will because their taxes 
went through the roof, they can't buy a new car, their child can't....

It's sad. The poor cop is a victim also. A victim of apathy on the part 
of the voters, complete lack of integrity on the part of the politicians, 
callousness or carelessness on the part of his superiors, and finally, 
perhaps, to his own blind faith in his commander.

Can we judge him? Probably not, because we are most likely just as 
guilty. But we have to do something and unfortunately, he is the 
starting point.

Hell...I don't know.

-- 
________________________________________________________________________________
Don Thompson                        |   I may be opinionated, but at least
Comshare Inc. dont@execu.execu.com  |   my opinions are my own.
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Newsgroups: talk.politics.guns