From: bb099@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Adam Trent Phillips)
Newsgroups: alt.atheism,alt.religion.all-worlds,talk.religion.misc
Subject: Re: "EVIDENCES OF THE EXISTENCE OF ALLAH (THE GOD)", the post
Date: 22 Jan 1993 01:53:10 GMT
Organization: Case Western Reserve University, Cleveland, OH (USA)
Reply-To: bb099@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Adam Trent Phillips)
NNTP-Posting-Host: slc10.ins.cwru.edu


In a previous article, bb099@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Adam Trent Phillips) says:

>
>POSTER'S NOTE: I am posting this on alt.atheism. The multiple newsgroups
>is for getting the responces to all of the original places this was posted.
>
>							--White Rook
> 
> 
>
>>Newsgroups: talk.religion.misc,alt.religion.all-worlds
>From: irfan@maxwell.ece.wisc.edu (Irfan Alan)
>Subject: EVIDENCES OF THE EXISTENCE OF ALLAH (THE GOD)
>Date: Wed Jan 20 11:40:03 1993
> 
>A HEAVY BLOW ON THE HEAD OF ATHEISTS, 
>NATURALISTS AND MATERIALISTS
> 
>A TRANSLATION from the COLLECTION OF RISALE-I NUR
>"RISALAT-UT TABI'AT" (A TREATISE ON NATURE),
>AUTHORIZED by Bediuzzaman Said Nursi.
> 
>NARRATOR: IRFAN ALAN
> 
>A DROPLET FROM THE VAST OCEAN OF MIRACULOUS QUR'AN
>----------------------------------------------------
>                   PART 1 
>                
>AUZUBILLAHIMINASSAYTANIRRACIYM BISMILLAHIRRAHMANIRRAHIYM
>(I seek refuge to Allah from the Satan rejected, stoned. 
> In the name of ALLAH, the Merciful, the Compassionate)
> 
> 
>A REMINDER:
>-----------
> 
>THIS TREATISE explains through Nine Impossibilities, 
>which themselves comprise at least ninety impossibilities, 
>just how unreasonable, crude and superstitious is the 
>reality of the way taken by those naturalists who are 
>atheists.  Since these impossibilities have been explained 

	What ?

>in part in other sections of the Risale-i Nur, and to cut 
>short the discussion here, some steps in the arguments have 
>been skipped.  It suddenly comes to mind, then, how is it
>that those famous and supposedly brilliant philosophers
>accepted such a blantantly obvious superstition, and 
>continue to pursue that way?   Well, the fact is that they
>could not see its reality, and I am ready to explain in
>detail and prove through clear and decisive arguments to 
>whoever doubts it that these crude, repugnant and
>unreasonable impossibilities are the necessary and 
>unavoidable results of their way; in fact, the very gist
>of their creed.(1)
> 
> 
>(1) What occasioned the writing of this treatise were the
>attacks being made on the Qur'an by those who called
>everything that their corrupted minds could not reach a
>superstition who were using nature to justify unbelief,
>and wery vilifying the truths of belief in a most aggressive
>and ugly fashion.  Those attacks stirred up in my heart 
>an intense anger which resulted in those perverted
>falsifiers of the truth receiving vehement and harsh
>slaps.  Otherwise,  the  way  generally  followed  by the
>Risale-i Nur is a mild, polite and pursuasive one.
> 

	A lot of words but you are not saying much, you just seem to be
taking things personally.

>                  ***********
>                  
>IN THE NAME OF ALLAH, THE MERCIFUL, THE COMPASIONATE.
> 
>Their prophets said, "Is there any doubt about
>Allah, Creator of the heavens and the earth? (2)
> 
>(2) Qur'an 14:10
> 
>   BY DECLARING through the use of a rhetorical
>question that there cannot and should not be any
>doubt about Allah SWA Almighty, this verse clearly
>demonstrates the divine existence and unity.  But before
>explaining the meaning of this, I shall mention a further
>point.
>   When I went to Ankara in 1911, the morale of the
>people of belief was extremely high as a result of the
>victory of the army of Islam over the Greeks. But I
>saw that an abominable current of atheism was 
>treacherously trying to subvert, poison and destroy
>their minds.

***SARCASM MODE ON

	Oh gee. Imperialist power cutting up the middle east like a 
pie has NOTHING to do with the problems of the middle east.

***SARCASM MODE OFF

>"Oh Allah!", I said, "this monster is going to
>harm the fundamentals of belief."  At that point 
>the above-mentioned verse makes self evidently 
>plain Allah's existence and  unity, I sought 
>assistance from it and wrote a treatise in Arabic 


> 
>PART ONE:  Oh Man!  You should be aware that there 
>are certain phrases which are commonly used and 
>imply unbelief.  The believers also use them, but 
>without realising their implications.  We shall 
>explain three of the most important of them.
> 
>THE FIRST:  "Causes crate this."
>THE SECOND:  "It forms itself; (it comes into 
>existence and later ceases to exist.)"
>THE THIRD: "It is natural: nature necessitates 
>and creates it."
> 
>Indeed, since beings exists and cannat be denied, 
>and since each being comes nto existence in a wise 
>and artistic fashion, and since each is not beyond 
>time but is being continuously renewed, then, 

	This seems to be just a wordy bit of subjectivist drek.

>Oh falsifier of the truth, you are bound to say 
>either that the causes of the universe create 
>beings, for example, this animal; that is to say, 
>it comes into existence through the coming together 
>of causes, or that it forms itself, or that its 
>coming into existence is a requirement and necessary 
>effect of nature, or that it is created  through 
>the Power of One All-Powerful and All-Glorious. 
>Since reason can find no way apart from these four, 
>if the first three are definitely proved to be 
>impossible, invalid, and absurd, the way of Allah's 
>Unity, which is the fourth way , will, necessarily 
>and self evidently and without doubt or suspicion, 
>be proven true.

	No proof yet, but a LOT of PERSONALISTIC BULLSH-- !

>  
> THE FIRST WAY:  .....  
>------------------------------------------------------------------  
>  TO be continued Allah Willing;
>  Narrator is Irfan Alan, Servant of Islam.   
>

	Nice words, some personalism and a few lame arguments, better luck
next time.
-- 
A. TRENT PHILLIPS |" A mirror is a negative space with a frame and a place for
  also known as   | your face, it reveals what the rest of us see. It conceals
   WHITE  ROOK    | what you'd like you to be."--Blue Oyster Cult
--------------------------bb099@cleveland.freenet.edu--------------------------