HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: poutsmaj@mace.cc.purdue.edu (unknown)
Subject: Re: Kirby Puckett
Organization: Purdue University
Distribution: usa
Date: Tue, 24 Nov 1992 03:30:46 GMT

In article <1992Nov23.224200.8822@cs.cornell.edu> tedward@cs.cornell.edu (Edward [Ted] Fischer) writes:
>
>In your dreams!  First, is there any chance of Leius playing short?  I
>certainly haven't heard any rumors to that effect.  Second, if the
>Twins *do* sign Puckett, they aren't going to have much money left
>over.  Certainly not enough to sign Boggs and Smiley.  And if they do
>sign Boggs, I can assure you that they will be *very* disappointed.
>He simply doesn't have the range to play on turf.
>
>-Valentine

Actually I think Leius was originally a SS.  The talk has been for many
years that he was to be SS when Gagne left.  At least that is if I 
remember right.  It's been a few years sinced I've been in Minn and 
I've lost (killed) too many brain cells since then...

paul
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1992 02:37:40 -0500 
From: Amit Likhyani <al1x+@andrew.cmu.edu>
Subject: Re: Bucs losses

Excerpts from netnews.rec.sport.baseball: 18-Nov-92 Re: Bucs losses by
Sherri Nichols@adobe.com 
> Martin's numbers at Buffalo: in 420 ABs, he hit .305, slugged .557, and had
> a OBA of .358.  Of course, a big chunk of that OBA was in his BA; he drew
> 35 walks.  If he hadn't been protected, he would have certainly gone; when
> the Pirates signed him as a minor league free agent last year, they were
> one of 21 teams vying for his services.  Given that, and given that he then
> had a very good year at Buffalo, you have to protect him even if you don't
> think he'll pan out; he has trade value if nothing else.  

Well, he is not a leadoff hitter.  The slugging percentage looks really good.
Buffalo is a tough hitters park.  I would bet a .900 Buffalo OPS
translates over .800 OPS in the national league.  This guy is beginning
to intrigue me.
He just may be a prospect.  If only he were 21 instead of 24.  The lack
of walks scares me, BUT, the Pirates hitting coaches seem to stress
walks and a lot of players show improvement in that area over time.  I
think more so than what is natural due to a player aging.  Orlando
Merced did not walk this much at Buffalo if my memory serves me right. 
Milt May will have a job with Garcia and Martin.  

So if you pencil Martin in left and VanSlyke in center, who plays right?
What I would like to see is Merced and McClendon in right until Midre
Cummings is ready and a big trade for a left hand hitting first baseman
with power.  Pennyfeather is a possibility in right.  

I figure Young will play third and Jay Bell will be traded leaving
Garcia at short.  I think Jeff King will be at second with Lind going
for whatever the Pirates can get and Mr.  First baseman will play first.
 The other possibility is that Mr.  First baseman could be Mr.  Right
Fielder.  Either player will be part of the Jay Bell deal.  He is the
only player with value that the Pirates can afford to trade.

Since the Dodgers got Jody Reed, I can't imagine who needs a second baseman.
Would the Pirates flat out release Lind?  Jeff King played a lot of
second base.  Enough to make me think that they have thought about
playing him there.  Could King even hit like a league average second
baseman?  I heard the Pirates were really happy with the way King played
second.
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
From: Shawn.T.Burgess@dartmouth.edu (Shawn T. Burgess)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
Subject: Post Draft Trade Results
Date: 18 Nov 92 19:48:41 GMT
Organization: Dartmouth College, Hanover, NH
X-Posted-From: InterNews1.0a6@newshost.dartmouth.edu


Here are all the ones I know about:

Greg Hibbard to Cubs for Alex Arias and Gary Scott
Danny Jackson to Phillies for 4 minor league pitchers
Tom Edens to Astros for 4 minor league pitchers
Eric Helfand and PTBNL to Oakland for Walt Weiss
Kevin Reimer to Milwaukee for Dante Bichette
Jody Reed to Dodgers for Rudy Seanez

Also, in a non-draft-related trade, Norm Chalton went to the Mariners
for Kevin Mitchell.
***shawn.burgess@dartmouth.edu***
Texas Rangers in 93!
(or 94 or 95 or 96, etc.)
My opinions in no way represent the views of Dartmouth College.
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
From: cs127050@cs.brown.edu (Michael Kalman)
Subject: Re: The New Yuck Mets: A Look Ahead
Organization: Brown Computer Science Dept.
Date: Mon, 23 Nov 1992 21:37:27 GMT

In article <1992Nov19.185947.17662@asd.com>, scott@asd.com (Scott Barman) writes:
|> In article <1992Nov18.033005.17846@Princeton.EDU> niepornt@dial.Princeton.EDU (David Marc Nieporent) writes:
|> >In article <1992Nov17.031537.614@asd.com> scott@asd.com (Scott Barman) writes:
|> >>Keith Hernandez... Gary Carter... if we go back farther in their
|> >>"history" we find Rusty Staub (70s vintage), Felix Millan... then we can
|> >>go back and find Don Clendenon.  Wow, some history!  I'll take it!!
|> >
|> >Yes, I had forgotten Hernandez and Carter.  I don't remember about
|> >Carter, but all they gave up for Hernandez was Neil Allen.  They didn't
|> >give up two draft choices, like they did for Murray.
|> 
|> Keith Hernandez was traded for Neil Allen and Rick Owenby.
|> Gary Carter was traded for Mike Fitzgerald, Herm Winningham, and ...
|> drat! I can't remember, but it was a pitcher.
                                        ^^^^^^^^

   Who could forget the key man in the deal (for the Expos), that
obscure Met pitcher: HUBIE BROOKS!! :-)


Michael Kalman

Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
From: niguma@ug.cs.dal.ca (Gordon Niguma)
Subject: Eck Wins MVP in Horrible Voting
Organization: Math, Stats & CS, Dalhousie University, Halifax, NS, Canada
Distribution: na
Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1992 01:42:57 GMT

  Well I still don't like him and I don't see much evidence to think that 
he deserves it, but Dennis Eckersley wins the MVP. Congratulations are given
grudgingly.
  Anyways, who are these idiots that were voting anyways? I'll leave Eck alone
because he had a good year; I won't dispute that. But Joe Carter third?
  What kind of idiot can believe that Joe Carter had more to do with the
Jays success than Roberto Alomar? Really? I saw both play around 130-140 games
this year and there's no way Joe Carter can beat Alomar in overall
effectiveness. Joe came in third while Alomar came fifth or sixth.
  Can anyone justify picking Carter over Alomar with things that can shown to
be true? How can a .309 OBP justify Carter? A .900 SLG? Perhaps but Joe clicked
in at only .498.
  Some people in the voting picked Joe Carter first (he had 3 or 4 first
place votes). These people should be banished and sent to Colarado, who are
planning their dynasty with names like Jerald Clark and Charlie Hayes.
  Ban the mediots!

					Gord Niguma
					(If Joe can be MVP why not
					(John Olerud?)


Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
From: rsmith@strobe.ATC.Olivetti.Com (Russ Smith)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
Subject: Re: Comparing Eckersley vs. noname reliever
Date: 16 Nov 92 20:50:37 GMT
Distribution: na
Organization: Olivetti ATC; Cupertino CA, USA

In article <1992Nov13.224140.18268@galileo.physics.arizona.edu> krueger@galileo.physics.arizona.edu (Ted Krueger) writes:
>I hate to burst your bubble, but just because AA says it, that don't mean 
>it's so.  The problem with this definition is that when someone was an 
>alcoholic and now is not (even though they may still drink) AA claims 
>that they really were not an alcoholic in the first place.  Sounds like 
>circular reasoning to me.

I never heard of somebody who used to be an alcoholic and now is not, by
definition of alcoholic that seems to be impossible. alcoholics need hae
a physical need for alcohol, withdrawal is quite difficult. I have known
at least 5 alcoholics and none of them were ever able to "still drink"
without going right back to alcoholism. I assume that is why AA will
say such a person is not really an alcoholic.




Russ Smith
*******************************************************************************

"What an angry clown!" -- Jerry Seinfeld

********************************************************************************




Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
From: jsosa@encore.com (Joe Sosa)
Subject: Re: St.Louis protected (was NL protected lists)
Reply-To: jsosa@encore.com (Joe Sosa)
Organization: Encore Computer Corp
Date: Tue, 17 Nov 1992 13:39:23 GMT
News-Software: NN 6.4.16

So, St.Louis fans, is there any reason why Tracy Woodson was left unprotected
too.  He seems to have a mighty bat, although I did not see him play much
at third base.  He sure seemed to do well when he was called up and Zeile
was sent down.

I'm a Marlin-fan, (Mar-fan, no, Marlinatic, no, Marlan, no, doesn't seem to
fit like Dol-fan), anyways I see St.Louis having some great talent available
in Woodson and Alicea, I'm just wondering if the Marlins or the Rockies are
going to grab the talent or go for Lee Smith and the trade.

We'll see, I'll be there (at JRS),

Joe Sosa

-- 
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
   ----- ----  /--- |  Joe Sosa -- jsosa@encore.com -- Encore Computer Corp.
    /   /---   \    |  Go Dolphins, AFC East, AFC, Super Bowl...the road to #1
----   ----  ---/   |  Go Gators, SEC Repeat!!  Beat them Semi-holes!!!
From: al1x+@andrew.cmu.edu (Amit Likhyani)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
Subject: Phils vs Expos
Date: 23 Nov 92 03:39:12 GMT
Organization: Senior, Electrical and Computer Engineering, Carnegie Mellon, Pittsburgh, PA

Catcher - Phils(Daulton over Laker?)
First - Phils(Kruk over whatever Montreal puts out there)
Second - Montreal (Deshields over Duncan due to OBA)
Short - Even - neither team is strong
Third - Philly(Hollins over Wallach or Sean Berry)
Left - Montreal(Alou over Wes no walk)
Center - Montreal(Grissom over Dykstra - Dykstra can't stay healthy)
Right -Montreal(Walker over ?)

This is a really dumb way to compare teams, but it is quick and easy. 
By my count, Montreal wins 4-3-1.

Pitching:

Martinez, Hill, Nabholz, Gardner, and Barnes takes
Mulholland, Greene, Rivera, Shilling ?

DeJesus is probably done.  Ashby left in the E-draft.  I don't follow
the Phillies, so I don't know who the 4th starters is.

Bullpen:

Wetteland, Fassero, Rojas, takes Wild Thing, and whatever other garbage
the Phils use in the pen.

The Phillies may score more runs, but I still don't think their pitching
is going to be good enough to win 95 games.  I still am not convinced
about Ben Rivera.  He looked like he was pitching batting practice when
I saw him pitch against the Pirates(he was with the Braves).  By the
way, that was the extra inning game when Justice and Lemke screwed up. 
Rivera was the last available pitcher on the Braves roster.  Greene did
not pitch well at the end of last year.  He has never been a big winner
in the majors.  I forgot what his injury was.  I thought it was a
shoulderor something somewhat serious.  Greene can dominate on a given
night or for a month, but it seems to me that he will have spells where
he gets shelled moreso than a 1 or 2 starter on a division winner.  I
see him 15-12 or something.
You have Dykstra, Daulton, and Kruk over 30.  Daulton coming off a
career year.  Their Expo counterparts are Walker, DeShields, and
Grissom(he does not walk either) are all under 27(check Walker's age). 
The Expos actually had a good record last year.  I see the Phils behind
Montreal and maybe the Pirates if their young players develop fast which
usually does not happen when you have a lot of young players.

Mit
The synonym for a baseball glove
From: ksmith@swine.cs.uiuc.edu (Ken Smith)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
Subject: Re: St.Louis protected (was NL protected lists)
Date: 17 Nov 92 22:58:08 GMT
Organization: University of Illinois, Dept. of Comp. Sci., Urbana, IL

kbos@carina.unm.edu (Kurt "Some Guy" Bose) writes:

>In article <Bxv4Lp.Lw6@encore.com> jsosa@encore.com (Joe Sosa) writes:
>>So, St.Louis fans, is there any reason why Tracy Woodson was left unprotected
>>too.  He seems to have a mighty bat, although I did not see him play much
>>at third base.  He sure seemed to do well when he was called up and Zeile
>>was sent down.

Well, to end the speculation:  they took fleet-footed Chuck Carr.  Batted
around .300 in Louisville, stole around 50 bases, he can fly.  He went
number 7 overall in the draft.  Sorry to see him go.  My guess is they will 
protect Alicea (unless they really only want one promising second baseman)
Carpenter, and perhaps Lee Smith for the second round.
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
From: doctor8@jhuvms.hcf.jhu.edu (Jason Abner Miller)
Subject: Re: Minor trade
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41    
Organization: The Johns Hopkins University - HCF
Distribution: na
Date: Sat, 21 Nov 1992 17:01:00 GMT

In article <kbanaian.35.0@bernard.pitzer.claremont.edu>, kbanaian@bernard.pitzer.claremont.edu (King Banaian) writes...
>In article <By17wB.DEs@news.iastate.edu> sckelm@iastate.edu (Steven C Kelm) writes:
> 
>>I heard that the Twins traded Darren Reed to the Mets, but who did they get
>>in return?  I'm assuming it was little more than a six-pack and a bag of 
>>peanuts.  Just curious.
> 
>The returning player was Patrick Howell.  If memory serves, this was a 
>player the Twins picked up in a Rule 5 draft, wanted to keep but felt they 
>couldn't waste the roster spot, so gave him back.  This is also, BTW, Reed's 
>second stop with the Mets.  Howell did not have a good year, but neither did 
>Reed, so this is even less than a minor trade.  But I know MacPhail liked 
>him, so he probably figured "what the hell" and dumped Reed.

	Patrick Howell?
	D'OOOOOOHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH   (to quote Homer Simpson).
I happened to LIKE Howell.  I know he didn't hit last year, but he had good
speed, made some amazing defensive plays, and was, even though an aging not-
prospect, was 30 times better than Vince Coleman.  I will get flamed for
liking somebody who doesn't have great stats, but he was fun to watch, and since
he's no worse than Ryan Thompson turned out to be last year, I'd rather have
had Howell in the first place.
	Not an AWFUL trade for Fat Al, but you know Reed's gonna be out
of the organization by March '94, while Howell will probably become a useful
Alex Cole type with Devon White defense and play for the Twins for years.
	Sigh............

							Jason Miller
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
From: The FASS Theatre Company <fass@math.uwaterloo.ca>
Subject: Catcher in the rye
Organization: University of Waterloo
Date: Tue, 17 Nov 1992 06:02:34 GMT


Just read in a Toronto paper that Cleveland is offering Sandy Alomar Jr.
for Pat Borders and one of RH Scott Brow (14-2 2.43 Class A) or
Marcus Moore (5-10 5.59 Double A).
Any thoughts?

Lee.
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
From: kenney@tribe.b17d.ingr.com (David Kenney)
Subject: Re: Call for Hall of Fame Votes
Reply-To: kenney@tribe.b17d.ingr.com
Organization: Intergraph Corporation, Huntsville, Alabama
Date: Tue, 17 Nov 1992 19:24:30 GMT

Players (In no particular order)
1. Lefty Grove
2. Rogers Hornsby
3. Jimmie Foxx
4. Eddie Collins
5. Bob Feller
6. Satchel Paige
7. Warren Spahn
8. Luke Appling
9. Cap Anson
10.Tris Speaker

Others (In no particular order)
1. Billy Martin
2. Bill James
3. Mel Allen
4. Bill Veeck


-- 
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
David Kenney                                      kenney@tribe.b17d.ingr.com
From: tim@normal.cosc.georgetown.edu (Tim Snyder)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
Subject: Re: creative managing
Date: 18 Nov 92 16:20:06 GMT
Distribution: usa,world
Organization: Georgetown University, Washington DC

In article <1992Nov18.064248.140327@zeus.calpoly.edu> jplee@zeus.calpoly.edu (Jason Lee) writes:
>In article <BxtI46.9u5@deshaw.com> baseggio@deshaw.com (Franco Baseggio) writes:
>>What about a lefty-righty reliever combo where they can both play
>>left-field?  Has a pitcher ever been moved to a non-pitching position
>>and then back again?  
>>
>It's been done.  I think with Jesse Orosco and Roger McDowell in the 16th
>inning of a game in which  all of the pitchers were used up.  There was some
>
Geez, Sparky did this with Jack Morris on several occasions.  Morris
detested being taken out of any game, so this was a way of compromising
Jack and keeping him competitive (well, more competitive).  It also
speaks to Morris' athletic ability.  He played an awesome outfield!
He even pinch ran a few times.

 Timothy Law Snyder
 Department of Computer Science
 Reiss 225
 Georgetown University
 Washington, DC 20057

tim@normal.georgetown.edu
(202) 687-6208
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
From: wilbanks@spot.Colorado.EDU (Wendell Gee)
Subject: Rockies will take (according to Denver Post)
Organization: University of Colorado, Boulder
Date: Tue, 17 Nov 1992 16:35:18 GMT

One Atlanta pitcher by the name of Dave Nied.



-- 
Dylan Wilbanks, Classics major, AND NOW Environmental Conservation!
Currently at:	 |"George Bush is Out of Time. Bill Clinton and Al Gore
Box 1143	 |are Automatic for the People."
Boulder, CO 80306|		-VP Elect Al Gore, 10-29-1992
From: genetic+@pitt.edu (Dr. Dave)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
Subject: Re: Keith Mitchell ???
Date: 20 Nov 92 15:53:41 GMT
Organization: Department of Industrial Engineering

Thus spake jmk.admin@mhs.unc.edu (Jim Kirkman):
>
>Secondly; what has Keith Mitchell done, made payments to people on the 
>net. I can't believe all the praise heaped upon him since this draft
>thing got going. First pick?!! Cummon guys and girls. Anyone got his stats
>from his time in the 'show' in 91? Just OK as I recall, 

I think maybe your recaller needs debugging :-).

Keith Mitchell's minor league career through 1991:

	Level	 PA   AVG   OBP   SLG
	-----	 --   ---   ---   ---
	 A     1478  .270  .373  .378
	 AA	252  .327  .402  .565
	 AAA	110  .326  .380  .474
	 NL	 74  .318  .392  .409

1991 composite numbers (252 PA at Greenville, 110 at Richmond, 74 in Atlanta):

		436  .325  .392  .515

And the kicker:  he turned *22* toward the end of that season.  How many 
players have posted a .325/.390/.500 season at *any* level of ball at *any*
age (outside the PCL)?  Very, very few.  And Richmond is a pitchers' park;
the drop in stats from Richmond to Atlanta is pretty small.

Compare, for example, with Braves' Darling Brian Hunter for the same year:

	 AAA	198  .260  .301  .464
	 NL	291  .251  .296  .450

...and Hunter is a year and a half older than Mitchell, and didn't face any
righthanded pitching in Atlanta.

>and he flat dis-
>appeared in Richmond this year. Granted he's got lots of competition in
>the organization but it ain't just the GM's in the two leagues who passed
>on him, the scouts obviously haven't been singing his praises either. 

The idea that Mitchell has "lots of competition" in the Braves' organization
is weird (although I certainly grant you that the Braves think that way).
Who is better?  Justice and Gant, at this point.  And Mitchell will continue
to get better (and develop more power) over the next 4 seasons.  Frankly, I'd
rather have Mitchell than Justice at this point; Mitchell has more long-term
promise, and doesn't have Justice's scary back-injury history.

>>If this is true, then the Expansion teams are really bone-heads for passing
>>on Caraballo and Mitchell.

>[...] its funny how little GM's know compared to experts on
>the net isn't it?

Not really.  "Sad" is a better description.  


-- 
       David Tate        |"Out of the dugout endlessly swinging,
 dtate@unix.cis.pitt.edu | Out of the manager's throat, the sound fundamentals,
 Prof. of Story Problems | Out of the six-month season..."            
 Member ORSA, TIMS, SABR | 	Walt "Lefty" Whitman
From: wall@cc.swarthmore.edu (Swarthmore College Computing Center)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
Subject: Expansion: Red Sox blow it
Date: 18 Nov 92 22:01:04 GMT
Followup-To: rec.sport.baseball
Organization: Swarthmore College Computing CenterCenter

What I want to know, fellow Red Sox sufferers, is who they protected in
place of Eric Wedge. Reed, much as I will miss him, I don't mind losing
since we were going to lose him anyway. But what exactly possessed sweet
Lou to let Wedge go?

ESPN reported what I thought was a rather silly rumour that the Red Sox
didn't protect him because he didn't consult the team before getting elbow
surgery last week. The facts of the case aside, that doesn't seem like a
very good reason to let a grade A prospect go.

- matt


---------------------------------------------------------
This space left intentionally blank until spring training.
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
From: lsmith@peca.cs.umn.edu (Lance "Squiddie" Smith)
Subject: Re: Kirby Puckett
Organization: The Little Squids of the Poor
Distribution: usa
Date: Tue, 24 Nov 1992 03:22:58 GMT

In article <1992Nov23.224200.8822@cs.cornell.edu> tedward@cs.cornell.edu (Edward [Ted] Fischer) writes:

[Kirby Puckett as MVP]

>If you say so.  IMHO, he isn't even the best player on his team.
>Shane Mack plays better defense, has more power (most years), hits for
>almost as high an average, and has better plate discipline.  Also more
>speed on the basepaths.

Mack has speed, but seems to have poor judgement on the basepaths. I'd
say his base stealing is about a wash (26 SB with 14 CS) and from my
own observations (for what they're worth) he often tries making something
out of nothing. Anyone keep records of how often players are thrown out
trying to stretch an extra base out of a hit? 

>In your dreams!  First, is there any chance of Leius playing short?  I
>certainly haven't heard any rumors to that effect.  

It's all speculation, but there has been a lot of talk in the local
papers about Leius playing short. That is he "natural" position. (I
really hate that expression.) It's all conditional on whether the Twins
sign Gagne or not and that is conditional on whether the Twins sign 
Smiley which is conditional on whether the Twins sign Puckett. (You
can throw some more conditions in there.) I don't think the Twins 
infield will be settled until they head north from Spring training.

If the Twins don't sign Gagne, then one option is to move Leius to
short. They then want a strong hitter at the corner which means they
probably wouldn't go with Jorgensen. That is why the Boggs rumors have
been getting a lot of attention. However, I really don't think it's 
something Andy M would do voluntarily. They're more likely to hurry 
a prospect up from AA. 

----------------------------
  Lance "Cr2O3.2H2O" Smith | "No, we have not met before. You may be assured
    (lsmith@cs.umn.edu)    |  of that. It's not often I meet a gentleman
  "When in doubt, twirl."  |  peanut like yourself on a night like this."
 Ted Shawn, choreographer  |                  _Mr Peanut and Black Annis_
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball