HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers
Date: Fri, 16 Oct 1992 20:12:46 -0400 
From: "Joseph M. Newcomer" <jn11+@andrew.cmu.edu>
Subject: Re: Thoughts

Excerpts from netnews.alt.folklore.computers: 8-Oct-92 Re: Thoughts by
Pauli Dale@cs.uq.oz.au 
> What are wire cutters for?

The inverse of soldering iron.  Think of the hardware domain as a Boolean
algebra with the two values being "soldering iron" (S) and "wire cutters"
(C).

S & C = 0  (Cut out what you soldered in)
S & S = S  (Solder the same thing in twice)
C & C = 0  (Cut it out twice)
C & S = 0  (Cut it out and solder it back)

~C = S
~S = C
                            joe

Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers
From: iain@ee.ryerson.ca (Iain Campbell)
Subject: Re: Bumper sticker
Organization: Ryerson Polytechnical Institute, Toronto
Date: Wed, 7 Oct 1992 14:39:36 GMT

In article <1992Oct01.094449.22216@einoed.in-berlin.de> alh@einoed.in-berlin.de (Adrian Le Hanne) writes:
>mdw@theory.TC.Cornell.EDU (Matt Welsh) writes:
>
>>In article <15858@mindlink.bc.ca> Charlie_Gibbs@mindlink.bc.ca (Charlie Gibbs) writes:
>>>          I <heart> DOS
>
>
>Further discussions should take place in alt.tasteless, i suppose.
>
[stuff deleted]

I suggest that anything pertaining to DOS should be discussed in 
alt.tasteless.

BTW, UNIX is an operating system, DOS is a file handling utility ...


Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers
From: mdw@theory.TC.Cornell.EDU (Matt Welsh)
Subject: Re: Counting on hands: (was: Possible UL alert)
Organization: Cornell Theory Center
Date: Thu, 8 Oct 1992 23:47:34 GMT

In article <1b2gbpINNntu@smaug.West.Sun.COM> dab@ism.isc.com (Dave Butterfield) writes:
>In article <1992Oct03.032725.14768@cubic.com> hees@cubic.com (Phil Hees) writes:
>>I'm surprised that no human civilizations used a power-of-two base for
>>their number system.
>
Wait a minute. I thought that some research had been done, and that binary
was used by some cavemen, or something, many ages ago... at least I
remember *reading* that many ages ago.

Maybe I'm wrong. Can the anthropologists please step in?

mdw

-- 
Matt Welsh    mdw@tc.cornell.edu        +1 607 253 2737
Systems Programmer, Cornell Theory Center
  "Yow! Up ahead! It's a DONUT HUT!!"
From: mallman@oucsace.cs.ohiou.edu (Mark Allman)
Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers
Subject: jargon file
Date: 10 Oct 92 03:53:22 GMT
Organization: /home/ace/a/mallman/.org

hello,
   i am looking for a copy of the jargon file, which is broken up in 
sections.  does such a beast exist?  if so, is there an ftp site from
which i could obtain it?

thanks,
   mark
-- 

/* Mark Allman                |  I'm a computer science student.  Whats
   mallman@ace.cs.ohiou.edu   |  your excuse?
   mallman@duce.cs.ohiou.edu  |                                         */
From: haynes@cats.ucsc.edu (Jim Haynes)
Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers
Subject: IBM 7030 (was Re: What was the intended advantage of using 36bits CPU?)
Date: 12 Oct 92 19:12:22 GMT
Organization: University of California; Santa Cruz
NNTP-Posting-Host: hobbes.ucsc.edu


In article <14930@auspex-gw.auspex.com> guy@Auspex.COM (Guy Harris) writes:
>
>Didn't the IBM 7030 - a machine with, as I remember, 32-bit words, and
>bit addressibility - antedate the 360?  (BTW, was the 7030 a tube or
>transistor machine?  I thought it was a transistor machine, but somebody
>else here thinks it was a tube machine.)
>
>I don't think the 7030 was a huge seller, though; I think it was a
>specialized supercomputer.  The 360 *may* have been the first
>big-selling 8-bit-byte computer, but I could believe that it wasn't....

The 7030 was a transistor machine; in fact the circuits developed for
the 7030 were the basis of the 7090 and contemporary products.  It is
well documented in an excellent book "Designing a Computer System: Project
Stretch" edited by W. Buchholz.  Stretch started out as a technology
development project, with a goal of producing a machine 100 times as
fast as the 704.  It had an 8-bit character set, but one much more
logical than EBCDIC, which was designed for easy conversion to/from
Hollerith.  It's my guess that IBM never really meant the machine 
to be sold, but in a company as marketing-heavy as IBM they will sell
anything.  The book "IBMs 360 and Early 370 Machines" by Emerson Pugh
et al tells some of the story.
-- 
haynes@cats.ucsc.edu
haynes@cats.bitnet

"Ya can argue all ya wanna, but it's dif'rent than it was!"
"No it aint!  But ya gotta know the territory!"
        Meredith Willson: "The Music Man"
Xref: sparky alt.folklore.computers:15044 comp.unix.admin:5527
From: alan@spuddy.uucp (Alan Saunders)
Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers,comp.unix.admin
Subject: Re: WANTED: Unix administration horror stories !
Date: 12 Oct 92 06:28:27 GMT
Organization: Spuddy's Public Usenet Domain

About inexperienced sysadmins .. One such had been on a Sun syasadmin 
course, and learned all about security.  One of the topics was on file
and group access.  On his return, he decided to put what he had learned
into practice, and changed the ownership of all files in /bin, /usr/bin
to bin.bin!  I was called in when no one could log in to the system
(of course /bin/login needs to be setuid root!)

Regards .. Alan
-- 

 * Meeeow ! Call Spuddy on (0203) 638780/638693 for FREE mail & Usenet access *
From: mbreen@sdacs.ucsd.edu (Michael Breen)
Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers
Subject: Radio Shack testimonial
Date: 16 Oct 92 00:24:19 GMT
Organization: University of California, San Diego
NNTP-Posting-Host: sdacs.ucsd.edu

Hi, my name is Michael and I...well...

OK  I BOUGHT STUFF AT RADIO SHACK, ALRIGHT?
I'VE GOT A DEGREE IN EE AND I STILL WENT THERE, OK?

Point is: I have been saved many a time by a Radio Shack part.
If you've got the time to visit a *real* store for *real* connectors
and electronic do-whatevers, then fine.

But if all you need is basic parts, or connectors, or the like, then
RS can save yer butt!

Most of my 'saves' involved weekend gigs performing with or running sound
for a band, and needing the simplest stuff like fuses, solder, resistors,
connectors, etc.  Many a show would have been hosed but for humble lame
RS.

I feel so much better.

Michael Breen
singing and philosophizing
(and, yes, I use Switchcraft when I've got time to get it)
From: jem@calypso.uucp (Jonathan Magid)
Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers
Subject: Re: Total erasure of hard drive data??
Date: 9 Oct 92 02:14:45 GMT
Organization: University of North Carolina, Chapel Hill

In article <1992Oct06.113419.9194@donau.et.tudelft.nl> wolff@zen.et.tudelft.nl (Rogier Wolff) writes:
>I confess I rewrote cat. And "hello world". And echo. Lets face it:
>while learning to program you need some "simple" projects to get your
>hands on. Most of us will start by writing "hello world". Some
>will proceed to textbook questions that have already been solved,
>others will write utilities that have already been written.

There is no excuse for the continuous rewriting of "hello world" programs.



The GNU version is superior to all previous version. 

Any additional work on this project is just reinventing the wheel.

jem.

-- 
Jonathan Magid     jem@SunSite.unc.edu       SunSite Administrator
Virtual pizza Delivery (tm)::faxed in 30 cycles or less or you get it
----------------------------------------FREE!!!-----------------------
From: liam@durie.amigans.gen.nz (Liam Greenwood)
Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers
Subject: Re: The need for an assem
Date: 16 Oct 92 19:52:38 GMT+12
Organization: It's Home, really...
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1 PL6]

Charles Lasner (lasner@watsun.cc.columbia.edu) wrote:
    [stuff about manual transmission enabling faster take off deleted]

    Note though that a large number of successful drag racers use auto
transmissions due to the advantage the transmission and drive transfer
mechanism (torque converter vs. clutch) give them in the identical, though
'safe', scenario.
>
> That's totally bogus.  No automatic selects gears, merely you may be able
> to limit the *top* gear it shifts into.  Admittedly, in some dynamic
    Most US transmissions can be modified, with after-market kits, to allow
full manual gear selection OR full auto selection. The market aimed at
is/was the street/strip crowd who want full control and the advantages of
the slush-box on the strip, but still want an auto selector for traffic
driving. "No automatic" is a bit strong, f'rinstance the early Borg-Warners
did an all auto thing when in D (drive), but intermediate hold did just that.
Selected 2, you started in 2 and it stayed there until the driver twiddled
bits....
--
 Liam Greenwood ------ liam@durie.amigans.gen.nz ------ Wanganui, N.Z.
                 Don't tell my Mother I'm a programmer,
               she thinks I'm a piano player in a brothel

Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers
From: dave@lynx.mn.org (David Messer)
Subject: Re: Screen Colors (was Re: Zork/dungeon)
Organization: Lynx Data Systems
Date: Wed, 07 Oct 1992 05:05:04 GMT

In article <718199154.F00001@tdkt.kksys.com> ddb@tdkt.kksys.com (David Dyer-Bennet) writes:
 >
 >Hmmm; some years ago I saw a monitor at Digital Productions that I was told had
 >4000-line vertical resolution.  Since I've never seen a monitor that had less
 >horizontal than vertical (okay, okay, setting aside portrait format monitors)
 >and since it was backed by a 24-bit frame buffer, I could have actually seen 16
 >million colors on screen.  I doubt I did, though; all the pictures I saw had
 >considerable areas of essentially the same color.

Well, to be a trifle pedantic, I doubt you did for a couple of reasons:
The human eye can only distinguish about 350,000 colors and most
(perhaps all) output devices have a smaller range than the eye.

Of course, many devices are capable of encoding more than 16,000,000
color values *before* converting them to visible light.  Why, my
little ol' IBM-PC does that everytime I display a JPEG file... :)
-- 
Vote for Bush!                       | David Messer       dave@lynx.mn.org -or-
    He's been sick.                  | Lynx Data Systems  ..!tcnet!lynxds!dave
Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers,rec.games.int-fiction
From: david@datamark.co.nz (David Rowland)
Subject: Re: Screen colors (Was Re: Zork/Dungeon)
Date: Thu, 8 Oct 1992 00:33:00 GMT
Organization: Datamark International Ltd.

In article <Xs76RB1w164w@lorc.UUCP> lowen@lorc.UUCP (Lamar Owen) writes:
>xeno@iastate.edu (Gary L Snethen) writes:
>> In <1992Oct1.215954.1465@ukw.uucp> lupe@ukw.uucp (Lupe Christoph) writes:
>> >nickel@cs.tu-berlin.de (Juergen Nickelsen) writes:
>> >>In article <1992Sep30.125808.15973@husc3.harvard.edu>
>> >>goodridg@husc8.harvard.edu (Andrew Goodridge) writes:
>> >>[...]
>> >>> My problem is my youth. I'm only 22; I was 7 or 8 when Zork was
>> >>> worked on.  I'm not very regretful; I got to see 16 million colors
>> >>> before I was 19.  But it means I'm starting at a disadvantage.
>> >>(Sorry, pet peeve:)
>> 
>> >>Where did you see 16 million colors? Not on *one* screen at a time, I
>> >>suppose, or I'd like to see that screen.
>> 
>> >Maybe he just went outside? :-P
>> 
>> Hmmm... First I was going to question why you suspected this was
>> unbelievable... since 24 bit graphics (16 million colors) has been around
>> for a long time...  But now it hits me...
>> 
>> That would be 4096 x 4096 resolution...  Pretty snazzy monitor!
>
>This is very true.  But, even with a 4096x4096 screen, you still couldn't see
>16 million colors.  Why?  The eye can only distinguish about 4 milllion colors.
>So, those other 12 million are just useless baggage.  Although using 24 bits
>for color info is easy on the hardware and the programmer, these days, due to 
>IBM's success at pushing 8-bit bytes.
>
4 Million Now. A few messages back, it was 350 000 colours. Does any
one know the exact number of colours the human eye can see?

-- 
+---------------------+--------------------------------------------------+
| David Rowland       | The British are using New Zealanders.  They must |
| Datamark Intl Ltd   | really mean bussiness !                          |
| Wellington          |      -  General Rommel During Northern African   |
Xref: sparky alt.folklore.computers:15076 comp.unix.admin:5570
From: JRowe@cen.ex.ac.uk (J.Rowe)
Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers,comp.unix.admin
Subject: Re: WANTED: Unix administration horror stories !
Date: 13 Oct 92 11:00:34 GMT
	<1992Oct12.143809.2922@javelin.sim.es.com>
Organization: Computer Unit. - University of Exeter. UK

In article <1992Oct12.143809.2922@javelin.sim.es.com> gfowler@javelin.sim.es.com (Gary Fowler) writes:

> Another time I wasn't so lucky.  I was a very new SA, and I was trying
> to clean some junk out of a system.  I was in /usr/bin when I noticed
> a sub directory that didn't belong there.  A former SA had put it
> there.  I did an ls on it and determined that it could be zapped.
> Forgetting that I was still in /usr/bin, I did an rm *.  No 10 second
> idiot proofing with rm.  Now if some one would only create an OS with
> a "Do what I mean, not what I say" feature.

That's why I *always*always*always* have the directory in my prompt.
And set 'rmstar' in tcsh to avoid those unwanted 'rm foo *' problems.
(If the variable rmstar is set tcsh always asks before doing an rm *).

BTW Gary, please format your lines to less than 80 characters wide :-)

John
Xref: sparky alt.folklore.computers:15056 comp.unix.admin:5553
From: dab@ism.isc.com (Dave Butterfield)
Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers,comp.unix.admin
Subject: Re: WANTED: Unix administration horror stories !
Date: 12 Oct 92 22:57:02 GMT
Organization: x
NNTP-Posting-Host: change

casper@fwi.uva.nl (Casper H.S. Dik) writes:
>>(of course /bin/login needs to be setuid root!)
>
>That's not true. 

Whether it's true or not depends on which version of Unix you're
running.
-- 
                     Vote for *anybody* but Quayle!
Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers
From: "scott gregory" <scott.gregory@canrem.com>
Subject: wanted: unused pdp-8?
Reply-To: "scott gregory" <scott.gregory@canrem.com>
Organization: Canada Remote Systems
Distribution: alt
Date: 9 Oct 92 03:29:03 EST

<<<Zcookbruc> said to All> on 10-07-92>

ZC>You also might try to find a DECmate - This is a single chip PDP-8.
ZC>Don't know if that's what you're looking for but I know a source of
ZC>these without keyboards - Just supply your own LK201, and it's running.

Just got me one of those...  Know where to get software for it?

*Scott Gregory* - - - - - - - - - - - Unix/X Guru in training...
- - - - - - - scott.gregory@canrem.com - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
---
  DeLuxe 1.21 #5411  
--
Canada Remote Systems  - Toronto, Ontario
World's Largest PCBOARD System - 416-629-7000/629-7044
From: allens@yang.earlham.edu (Allen Smith)
Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers
Subject: Re: Thoughts
Date: 12 Oct 92 05:20:17 GMT
Organization: Earlham College, Richmond, Indiana

In article <Bvw57v.EqL@eis.calstate.edu>, kmitche@eis.calstate.edu (Kenneth Mitchell) writes:
> wright@latcs1.lat.oz.au (Michael G. Wright) writes:
>> Ahhh, all you unbelievers. So sorry that you cannot see the error of your 
>> ways. Don't you see that Macintosh is becoming more and more powerful every
>> day simply because people _are_ dumb, so they want a simple interface. And
>> if you think that IBM and Clone users are immune, well, Windows 3.1?
>> 
> 
> Seriously, in 5 years, it WON'T MATTER what kind of computer you have;
> they'll all work the same, and will all run the same software. And alas
> for you Messy-DOS freaks, t'll be VERY much like a Mac; many programs
> ALREADY are virtually identical in their Windows and Mac incarnations.
> Stuff from Microsoft, for example; check the title page of the Excel 4.0
> manual, where it says "For the Macintosh or for Microsoft Windows". Same
> book for both programs. 
> 
	And those of us who want performance instead of an idiotic 
interface (people may claim that it's easy to use; I find a menu- or 
command-line-driven interface to be much easier) will probably still have 
programs available. People who want performance are a big enough market to 
overcome the GUI drones.
	-Allen
Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers,rec.games.int-fiction
From: johnf@apollo.hp.com (John Francis)
Subject: Re: Screen colors (Was Re: Zork/Dungeon)
Date: Fri, 16 Oct 1992 16:31:20 GMT
Organization: Hewlett-Packard Corporation, Chelmsford, MA

In article <0eZmsB2w164w@lorc.UUCP> lowen@lorc.UUCP (Lamar Owen) writes:
>    [ . . . . . . ]                  .  Oh, but you meant a *single* computer,
>not a network... Hmmm... Well, the Apollo Domain system blurs that distinction,
>being that memory is shareable amongst machines, processes are shareable, 
>video is shareable (ever seen net_bounce on an Apollo? Bounces an object across
>multiple workstation's screens), the mouse is shareable (move your mouse cursor
>to another workstation and open a window there).

Thank you for your kind words for our systems.  Unfortunately, you are incorrect.
Memory, processes, etc. are no more sharable than they are on any network of Unix
workstations connected to a LAN.

What the Apollo Domain network offered was a real network-wide file system that
was always there (you didn't need to explicitly mount remote disks), and had the
necessary primitives to make read/write remote file access usable without the
problems that multiple independent write attempts cause on some other systems.

The net_bounce demo program makes clever use of the Network Computing Services
facilities to coordinate the display of an object between several cooperating
processes.  The mouse moving between screens was only possible on a project
that I don't believe ever made it to the product line - multiple display heads
on a single workstation.

A modern workstation with the Andrew File System, Posix threads, and the OSF
Distributed Computing Environment can do most things that the Apollo systems
could do. The major distinction is that Apollo has had this stuff for years!
-- 
John Francis                                 johnf@apollo.hp.com
with 9 cats to feed, I don't have time to think up a clever .sig
Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers
From: dem@meaddata.com (David Myers)
Subject: Re: Virtural Reality Operating Systems?
Organization: Mead Data Central, Dayton OH
Date: Thu, 15 Oct 1992 12:18:02 GMT

kodak> Are there any research projects, commercial or otherwise, dealing with
kodak> virtural reality OS's?

    Hmmm...  ViROS.  Might scare the hell out of management.  "Hey,
boss, I'm putting a ViROS on our computers."
--
David Myers                                             (513) 865-1343   
Mead Data Central           No news is             Fabrication Systems
P.O. Box 933                 bad news.                dem@meaddata.com
Dayton, Ohio  45401                             ...!uunet!meaddata!dem
Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers
From: sem@mitre.org (Stan McQueen)
Subject: Re: Hacking too long!
Organization: Mitre Corporation, Bedford, MA.
Date: Wed, 7 Oct 1992 17:11:07 GMT

Regarding numbering of floors in buildings, I just returned from a
trip to Paris where I stayed with friends.  Their apartment building
had 8 floors of apartments and 2 levels of parking garage under the
building.  The buttons in the elevator looked like this:

	7	6
	5	4
	3	2
	1	0
	-1	-2

where 0 is, of course, ground floor.
--
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
sem@mbunix.mitre.org	                              "The right to buy weapons
Stan McQueen                                          is the right to be free."
The MITRE Corporation                                         -- A. E. van Vogt
1259 Lake Plaza Dr.                                 "The Weapon Shops of Isher"
Colorado Springs, CO 80906                              #include <disclaimer.h>
719-527-2470
Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers,talk.bizarre
From: bhoughto@sedona.intel.com (Blair P. Houghton)
Subject: Re: You know when you're hacking too long when...
Organization: Intel Corp., Chandler, Arizona
Date: Wed, 7 Oct 1992 18:22:00 GMT

In article <NJ.92Oct4232840@magnolia.Berkeley.EDU> nj@magnolia.Berkeley.EDU (Narciso Jaramillo) writes:
>You know when you're hacking too long when you realize that all his flesh
>has long since disintegrated into small bubble-like gelatinous lumps of
>meat and fat and you might as well put down the axe because it's about
>as tender as it's going to get anyway.

Cut it up, nj...

				--Blair
				  "It had to be said."
From: jn11+@andrew.cmu.edu (Joseph M. Newcomer)
Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers
Subject: Re: Lots of old hardware for sale/trade
Date: 17 Oct 92 01:32:58 GMT
Organization: Carnegie Mellon, Pittsburgh, PA

Our mailer doesn't recognize lorc.UUCP, so I'm ccing this to a.f.c.
for redundancy.  a.f.c. readers, please excuse the posting...

Radio Shack plotter...is that the "Six pen plotter"?  If so, and if it
still available, I have a 13-year-old who is interested in graphics but
doesn't have a graphics output device...call me @(412)243-8492, FAX
(412)244-0922 or email directly but I only log in about once every 10 days.
                                joe
From: dik@cwi.nl (Dik T. Winter)
Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers
Subject: Re: Strange streets (was: Thoughts)
Date: 10 Oct 92 02:29:05 GMT
Organization: CWI, Amsterdam

In article <1992Oct09.091754.23561@x.co.uk> clive@x.co.uk (Clive Feather) writes:
 > I have vague memories that Saskatoon (Saskatchewan) has a complex shaped
 > street that intersects itself several times. It's 16 years since I was
 > there, though, so I may be mistaken.
 > 
No intersection here, and also not really a street.  But in the complex
where I am living the upper three floors of the buildings are called
Bovenover and the lower two floors are called Benedenlangs.  You can walk
all along Bovenover from building to building using bridges.  What many
people find confusing is that the even numbers are in other buildings than
the odd numbers, and that Bovenover 215 is not just above Benedenlangs 215,
no, it is in a different building.  (And the frontdoor to my flat is in
the middle of my flat.)
-- 
dik t. winter, cwi, kruislaan 413, 1098 sj  amsterdam, nederland
home: bovenover 215, 1025 jn  amsterdam, nederland; e-mail: dik@cwi.nl
Xref: sparky alt.folklore.computers:15085 comp.unix.admin:5582
From: matthews@oberon.umd.edu (Mike Matthews)
Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers,comp.unix.admin
Subject: Re: WANTED: Unix administration horror stories !
Date: 13 Oct 92 18:17:46 GMT
Organization: /etc/organization

In article <Bw1G0s.49D@gumby.ocs.com> obi@gumby.ocs.com writes:
>Now when I partition a disk I sit there with a calculator and make sure
>all the numbers add up correctly (offsets, number of cylinders, number of
>blocks, and so on).

Heh heh, now that you mention that...

We had just gotten a 1.2G disk drive for our Sun (which direly needed it) so
we felt we'd repartition everything.

All went well, except... on reboot, one of the partitions that was newly
restored from backup got a fsck error.  Fixed it, it rebooted, then another
one got an error.  fscked that one, rebooted it, and doggone it, the first
error was back!

We had a one cylinder overlap.  Sheesh.

At least Ultrix WARNS you of that.
------
Mike Matthews, matthews@oberon.umd.edu (NeXTmail accepted)
------
Don't kiss an elephant on the lips today.



Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers
From: barr@pop.psu.edu (David Barr)
Subject: Re: Connection Machine posters 
Organization: Penn State Population Research Institute
Date: Tue, 13 Oct 92 23:00:53 GMT

In article <cline.718994739@beech.cs.scarolina.edu> cline@cs.scarolina.edu (Ernest Cline) writes:
>pt@geovision.gvc.com (Paul Tomblin) writes:
>
>>eugene@wilbur.nas.nasa.gov (Eugene N. Miya) writes:
>
>>>Real programmers don't need posters.
>>>They MAKE their own. Others ask for THEIR posters.
>>>Silly request.	;^)
>
>>Speaking of which - can somebody post a gif or jpeg of the CM-5 poster?
>
>Or how about a gif or jpeg of Craig Shergold?

If you have one, please send as many copies as you can to my dying
cousin...  He's trying to get in the Guinness Book for having the biggest
mbox...

--Dave
-- 
System Administrator, Population Research Institute    barr@pop.psu.edu
  "An analogy is like instant coffee: it can wake you up, but it's
  not the real thing"  -- Peter da Silva
Xref: sparky alt.folklore.computers:15176 rec.games.int-fiction:581