From: bobk@dogear.spk.wa.us (Bob Kirkpatrick)
Newsgroups: pnw.general
Subject: Re: The Caller Manifesto
Date: 15 Sep 92 03:08:21 GMT
Article-I.D.: dogear.m9g5qB3w165w
Organization: Dog Ear'd Systems of Spokane, WA

kurt@eskimo.celestial.com (Kurt Cockrum) writes:

> In article <MS-C.716353350.1103527590.mrc@Ikkoku-Kan.Panda.COM> mrc@Ikkoku-Ka
> >So, we have *volunteer* busybodies, who due to some fluke are empowered to
> >send State Troopers to arrest people for the horrible crime of presuming not
> >to want to speak to the busybodies on the telephone!
> >
> >The more Kirkpatrick talks about his occupation, the scarier it becomes.  We
> >are seeing a prototype, or perhaps an embryo, of a future Secret Police.  Al
> >of the elements are there.
> 
> Yes.  Of such stuff will be made the seeds of future Randy Weaver-type
> confrontations with the state.
> 
> I've seen very little commentary on the net (or anywhere else) about
> the Randy Weaver
> confrontation in Northern Idaho.  I have heard that the whole thing
> started over an overlength (underlength?) weapon.  It's appalling how
> it escalated.  I suppose the same thing could happen if someone sassed
> Bob Kirkpatrick back (BTW, BK, what do you do?  Sounds like you're some
> sort of part-time enforcer-by-telephone for the state), or...whatever.
> Pretty fucken scary.

Bob Kirkpatrick is a Guardian ad Litem. When the Government steps in to
take a child for reasons of abuse or neglect, the feds mandate that we
represent the child in court. Anybody willing to take the training can
be a guardian. Contact your local CASA Office -likely you can get a
pointer to it through your local Juvenile Court. The vast majority of
guardians are volunteers.

It is our job to make sure that the allegations (usually made by Child
Protective Service [but not always]) are valid, and if not then make
sure the court knows the charge is bogus. If the charges aren't bogus,
then it is our task to find services and training for the 'perpetrators'
and get their children back to them as quickly as circumstances allow.

Sometimes, the parents are accused wrongly --as a matter of fact, 65%
of the reports of child-abuse made to CPS aren't followed up because
they're bogus on their face. Because unnecessary separation is a trauma
kids can live without, the government wants to make sure they don't
don't do unnecessary separations. It would not be unfair to say that
the government also doesn't want it's butt sued off for false removal.

When it gets touchy, like when time constraints require quick action,
we have to get hold of witnesses as fast as we can. There are laws
that govern our contacts, and we have to work with them. Considering
that it's our task to ombudsman the (ZOG) government, it seems to me
that the Weaver's of the world would laud our activity.

All of this thread got started when Crispin said he wouldn't answer
the phone if it showed a number he didn't recognize, and he also said
he refused to use answering machines. I pointed out that my opposition
to caller-id stemmed from the fact that those with his bent who might
become involved in an abuse case could end up with a cop at their door
to bring them down for an interview --failing response to a phone call.
Mr. Crispin took it upon himself to defend the American Way by showing
that by God, nobody trying to help a kid was going to get past HIS
security. frump, frump, frump. If you're looking for a Weaver, check
out the bandwagon you've jumped on.

Now_____

You asked about the Weaver case. Since it's basically Spokane's back
yard where it all happened (Naples, ID) perhaps some light can be
shed. After all, it's true that Washington is like two states --the
Eastern and Western. Our news doesn't rate much time on the West side
so I'm told.

Weaver was arrested for shortening and selling a shotgun. He sold it
to an undercover DEA agent. He was busted for trafficing in illegal
weapons, and ordered to appear. He didn't. The DEA contacted him and
asked him to spy on the Aryan Nations in return for a reduction or a
dropping of charges. Bear in mind, the book time for the offense has 
a maximum of two years. He refused. 18 months or so later, we have the 
standoff in Naples.

Those of us here question why all the fuss was necessary, given that
the DEA had been talking to him, and trying to make a deal. IMO, if
they wanted him, they could have had him pretty easily. 

All of this comes from the local chatter up here, in addition to news
and newspaper reports by local stations and the Spokesman Review.

> Does anybody remember MOVE in Philly, where they burned a whole neighborhood
> to get rid of an "obnoxious" black commune?  Ring any bells?  Come on, all
> you state-lovers, make the case for why the state absolutely cannot tolerate
> defiance in any form -- why it must *always* win -- the end that justifies
> *whatever* means used to attain it.  Are the "benefits" we all "get" from
> the state worth grinding/chewing up a few political oddballs?  Remember,
> Weaver committed no real crime; he ran afoul of a "pretext" law, one of those
> like jaywalking, used not to attain a social good but as a tool of selective
> control and repression of "undesirable" elements.

I lived in Philly when that happened --down in Fishtowm. Chief Rizzo's
cops were some of the worst in the world. Their leather jackets and k-9s
on the beat only made matters worse. They were at least as violent as 
the people they 'protected' the city from, and probably more. A regular
psycho convention.

Weaver did commit a crime, but the response to it was ludicrous, given the
circumstances.

I do get the reference though.

"I get it. Pig, Bacon, Police Officer. heh, I used to call the cops the same 
things when I was a kid."  (Wayne's World)

> I'm not interesting in discussing newnazis, white pseudosupremacy or
> other such distractions.  Being a bigot has nothing to do with the issue at
> hand, contrary to some people's beliefs.  I suspect that at this point, I
> probably disagree with UFAF (the United Front Against Fascism, a local group
> that monitors and confronts hate groups).

I see.
--- 
Bob Kirkpatrick <bobk@dogear.spk.wa.us>
Dog Ear'd Systems of Spokane, WA