HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: rogue@ccs.northeastern.edu (Free Radical)
Newsgroups: alt.religion.scientology
Subject: Re: Higher Ideals
Date: 29 Sep 92 19:37:00 GMT
Organization: Comp. Sci. @ NU

In article <1992Sep28.103706.11674@tc.cornell.edu>
homer@theory.TC.Cornell.EDU (Homer Smith) writes: 
>     Only if you exist, have a brain and are an alive conscious being.
>I may never be able to know that you exist, are alive and a conscious
>being, but on the off chance that your are, and to humor my little
>psychological need to believe that you do exist, then by all means
>showing you how and what I have found, might possibly help you find and
>attain such things yourself.

Homer - what's your obsession with solipsism?  We exist, just accept
it.

	RA

rogue@ccs.northeastern.edu
--------------------------
The NSA is now funding research not only in cryptography, but in all areas
of advanced mathematics. If you'd like a circular describing these new
research opportunities, just pick up your phone, call your mother, and
ask for one.
From: isds11990012@memstvx1.memst.edu
Newsgroups: alt.religion.scientology
Subject: WINS!!!
Date: 26 Sep 92 13:26:53 -0600
Organization: Memphis State University


Here is an interesting Win I had from the purification rundown.
I did the Purif in May of '92.  Last night (9/25/92) my girlfriend's
mother who is not a Scientologist and is in fact somewhat antagonistic
to the religion commented that before I did the purif, my skin had
a grey cast to it.  She said that now I had nice rosey cheeks and
good skin color!!!

Not exactly scientific evidence, but a nice win just the same.

Also, by carefully applying Scientology Ethics my income has continued
to rise month after month!!!  A very great win that I am grateful
to LRH for making possible.

Also, if any of you Scientologists have not yet accepted the General
Amnesty, I would like to urge you to do so.  What a fabulous, terrific,
life changing WIN to end-cycle on all previous anti-social acts!!!
Being Clean on O/W is REALLY cool.

If you haven't yet done it, please do.  It will speed your progress on
the Bridge.

Also, the TR wins just keep on coming.  Every time I think I just 
couldn't possibly confront more, I get my TRs IN and the stop or
barrier just blows!!!  My havingness is sky-high!!!

I look forward to hearing your wins here.  How about posting some?

-------------------------------------------------------


Much Love and Infinte ARC....

John Holfield
From: isds11990012@memstvx1.memst.edu
Newsgroups: alt.religion.scientology
Subject: Re: double blind
Date: 28 Sep 92 18:19:40 -0600
Organization: Memphis State University

In article <GISLE.92Sep28122035@gyda.ifi.uio.no>, gisle@ifi.uio.no (Gisle Hannemyr) writes:
> 
> Take the purification rundown.  Ron says that it works because he
> knows that toxins and radiation are stored in fatty body tissue and
> can be purged by sweating.  Scientologists who has done the PR says
> that they believe this is correct -- not because of Ron's authority,
> but just because they feel great after doing the PR.  So far, so good.
> A good starting point is to trust one's senses.  Then "science" rises
> its ugly voice and says that the whole metabolic theory behind the PR
> is bull.  Scientologists retorts that, well we don't accept the
> authority of "science" either.  So far, so good.  Nobody suggests that
> you should believe something just because science says that it is so.
> But why don't you take the obvious step, and really try to find out?
> It should be simple to collect some of the sweat from a rundown, take
> it to a lab and get it analyzed for abnormal levels of toxins and
> radiation. 

    Well this isn't as good as taking the sweat to a lab, but I can tell
you without a doubt, that something comes out (drugs, toxins, or
maybe vitamins).  

    When I did the purif, I got up each morning, bathed, and ate 
breakfast.  Then I drove to the Church, took my vitamins and went 
jogging.  I jogged for about twenty-five minutes, and then took a shower
to cool of before I got in the sauna.  After about five hours in the 
shower I got out and changed clothes.  Later in the afternoon I helped
to clean up the sauna.  Each day there was about two tablespoons of
dark-gray gritty substance on the tile floor that comes out in your sweat.
Like I said, I don't know what it was, but It couldn't have been dirt
because I was clean when I got in there and the sauna was clean when I
got in.  Also I took several showers between the beginning and end of the
session.

    Some kind of crap definitely comes out of your body.  Like you said,
this really can't be that hard to verify.  I'm sure that you can get access
to a sauna and try it for yourself.  Just guessing, I would say that most
of it is probably vitamins, because you take a lot of them.

    Any Ideas what that substance was?

-------------------------------

John Holifield




Newsgroups: alt.religion.scientology
From: scg@mentor.cc.purdue.edu (Scott Goehring)
Subject: Re: A Question for Critics.
Reply-To: scg@mentor.cc.purdue.edu
Organization: Society for the Prevention of National Mudding Associations
Date: Fri, 2 Oct 1992 15:30:26 GMT

isds11990012@memstvx1.memst.edu writes:

>Why have you spent so much of your time trying to make Scientology
>and L. Ron Hubbard look like an evil fraud?

1.  I don't spend that much time.  Showing that Scientology and LRH
    are frauds is trivial and requires almost no time.

2.  I don't think either are evil.  Then again, I don't believe in
    'evil' as a universal concept anyway. ;)

3.  Because you pro-Scientologists spend so much time trying to
    convince us they aren't.


--
I don't think that "society" _knows_ if a person is a virgin or not.  It's not
like they have a neon sign flashing on their forehead or something.
		-- Jennifer Brindle (jbrindle@mdd.comm.mit.com), talk.abortion
Newsgroups: alt.religion.scientology
From: jasons@atlastele.com (Jason Smith)
Subject: Re: E-Meter
Organization: Atlas Telecom Inc.
Date: Thu, 1 Oct 1992 16:51:58 GMT

In article <chrisc.3.717455707@county.lmt.mn.org> chrisc@county.lmt.mn.org (Chris Cain) writes:

[ Question re: What is an E-Meter, and what principle it is based on ]

>
>An E-Meter is a sensitive supressed zero ohm-meter.
>

I'm glad you cleared things up...

-- 
Jason D. Smith
 There are two kinds of opinions in this world.  There are good ones,
 and then there are other peoples'.
From: rogue@ccs.northeastern.edu (Free Radical)
Newsgroups: alt.religion.scientology
Subject: Re: WINS!!!
Date: 1 Oct 92 19:31:16 GMT
Organization: Comp. Sci. @ NU

>>In article <1992Sep26.132653.3403@memstvx1.memst.edu>
isds11990012@memstvx1.memst.edu writes: 
[...]
>>>Also, if any of you Scientologists have not yet accepted the General
>>>Amnesty

hey, what is this General Amnesty, anyway?

	RA

rogue@ccs.northeastern.edu
--------------------------
The NSA is now funding research not only in cryptography, but in all areas
of advanced mathematics. If you'd like a circular describing these new
research opportunities, just pick up your phone, call your mother, and
ask for one.
Newsgroups: alt.religion.scientology
From: erichill@microsoft.com (Eric Hill)
Subject: Re: Re: Creed.
Date: 06 Oct 92 08:05:29 GMT
Organization: MICROSOFT MFG, 

In article <1992Oct2.080802.4209@lds-az.loral.com> jerry@lds-az.loral.com (J Barbera) writes:
>To add to a statement made by John regarding the $27 per week allowance for
>Sea Org members:
>
>First of all, the weekly allowance varies depending on training level up to
>$30 (the average for most) with something like $22.50 for new members still
>receiving basic training (and spending 5 hrs. per day in the course room).
>
>Next, it should be noted that SO members receive clothes, food, and 
>berthing (place to sleep) ... all of which adds up when an average SO org
>such as AOLA has around two hundred staff.  In addition to buildings,
>office supplies, and so forth.
>

So, the S.O. pays poverty wages and so the vast majority of recruits
are of low education and thereby easier to indoctrinate.
You get what you pay for and the S.O. is full of poorly educated
heavily indoctrinated individuals.  One's first duties in the 
S.O.  is 5 hours a day of basics, including how to read if needed.
Not exactly professional management staff.





-- 
-----------------------------------------------------------
Views expressed in this article are the individual author's
and in no way refect the views of Microsoft, etc. ad nausium
-----------------------------------------------------------
From: spl@pitstop.ucsd.edu (Steve Lamont)
Newsgroups: alt.religion.scientology
Subject: Re: A Question for Critics.
Date: 2 Oct 1992 00:04:36 GMT
Organization: University of Calif., San Diego/Microscopy and Imaging Resource
NNTP-Posting-Host: pitstop.ucsd.edu

In article <1992Oct1.183024.3485@memstvx1.memst.edu> isds11990012@memstvx1.memst.edu writes:
>    Why have you spent so much of your time trying to make Scientology
>and L. Ron Hubbard look like an evil fraud?  

Because there aren't many interesting recipes on rec.food.recipes
these days.

							spl



-- 
Steve Lamont, SciViGuy -- (619) 534-7968 -- spl@szechuan.ucsd.edu
UCSD Microscopy and Imaging Resource/UCSD Med School/La Jolla, CA 92093-0608
"If you don't think people are this crazy, you need to move to LA!"
                                     - Gary Stollman
Newsgroups: alt.religion.scientology
From: jan_b@lysator.liu.se (Jan Besehanic)
Subject: Re: A Question for Critics.
Organization: Lysator Academic Computer Society, Linkoping University, Sweden
Date: Sat, 3 Oct 1992 16:11:05 GMT

isds11990012@memstvx1.memst.edu writes:


>To  :  Scientology Critics
>From:  John Holifield

>    Why have you spent so much of your time trying to make Scientology
>and L. Ron Hubbard look like an evil fraud?  

Because Scientology is a bad joke that isn't funny anymore.



--
Jan Besehanic
email: jan_b@lysator.liu.se
New, improved .sig-file under construction.
From: rogue@ccs.northeastern.edu (Free Radical)
Newsgroups: alt.religion.scientology
Subject: Re: Re: Creed.
Date: 30 Sep 92 22:39:58 GMT
Organization: Comp. Sci. @ NU

In article <1992Sep30.202327.678@balrog.dseg.ti.com>
keith@balrog.dseg.ti.com (Keith A. Schauer) writes: 
>In article <1992Sep26.131245.3402@memstvx1.memst.edu>
>isds11990012@memstvx1.memst.edu writes: 
[...]
>>Ls produce a positive case gain.  I am talking about stupendous, mind-
>>boggling, impossible to describe WINS!!!!
>>
>You know this from personal experience?  What is a WIN???

Keith - they're impossible to describe! ;-)

	RA

rogue@ccs.northeastern.edu
--------------------------
The NSA is now funding research not only in cryptography, but in all areas
of advanced mathematics. If you'd like a circular describing these new
research opportunities, just pick up your phone, call your mother, and
ask for one.
From: decot@cup.hp.com (Dave Decot)
Newsgroups: alt.religion.scientology
Subject: Re: Dianetics books.
Date: 6 Oct 92 07:37:07 GMT
Organization: Hewlett-Packard
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1.4 PL6]

J Barbera (jerry@lds-az.loral.com) wrote:
    [hype copied wholesale without permission from the appendix
    of a copyrighted work owned by L. Ron Hubbard Library, and
    without any credit or reference as to its Source]

I object to the commercial use of Usenet.  Please stop posting advertising
for Bridge Publications.

Dave Decot
From: 06zonker@ac.dal.ca
Newsgroups: alt.religion.scientology
Subject: Re: Drugs in the Classroom  (Was - Re: Re: Creed.)
Date: 6 Oct 92 23:20:42 GMT
Organization: Dalhousie University, Halifax, Nova Scotia, Canada

In article <1ar0lvINN533@network.ucsd.edu>, spl@szechuan.ucsd.edu (Steve Lamont) writes:
> In article <1992Oct5.214933.7971@ac.dal.ca> 06zonker@ac.dal.ca writes:
>>In article <1ahsiqINNmit@network.ucsd.edu>, spl@pitstop.ucsd.edu (Steve Lamont) writes:
>>> The answer is just *too* easy.
>>
>> Scientology's answers are just *too* sleazy. 
> 
> Just to set the record straight, since the quoted posting might be
> misleading.  My intention was not to defend Scientology or its
> precepts.  I'm not a believer in Scientology or any other religion,
> organized or otherwise.  My point of discussion was the morality,
> efficacy, and desirability of what is becoming the all too frequent
> use of drugs such as Ritalin in controlling "hyperactive" children.
> 
> Time to hit "U," I think.
> 
> 							spl
***********************************************************************


  I'm not a believer in any sort of organized religion either, but I do strongly
object to sensationalistic tactics to support an overblown argument.  
 Hyperactivity is a problem not fully understood and I'm sure subject to 
malpractice by less skilled doctors;  so are headaches for that matter --
what I read in your comment was fear mongering based on evidence which was
anedoctal and/or specious and/or archaic.  The abuses in the Soviet Union or
over-drugging by physicians are of course real.  They are, however, not
representative of the overall health professions any more than the Spanish
Inquisition or the Jonestown Massacre describe religious experience.
   I would not diminish the painstaking efforts of those who dedicate their
lives to research so that the lives of millions of people can be saved and
improved;  doctors aren't as careless with, say, barbiturates or sedatives as
they used to be in the past -- ethics are a big part of any reputable's
school curriculum nowadays, and the former Soviet Union is not anyone's
paragon of medical behaviour as far as I know.  I am aware of drug abuse at
every level of our society, including our "healers", but I wouldn't go as far
as condemning a whole field of study based on conspicuously aberrant 
misuses.
  I don't know... perhaps it's my personal experience....after malaria,
pneumonia, strep throat and pleurisy I'm damn grateful for all those drugs
they saw fit to pump into my circulatory system....
  If you want to speak about absurd medical malpractice, though, consider
the needless plastic surgery, the silicone, the Retin-A, the mega-vitamin diets,
(take niacin w/ established deleterious hepatic effects, so beloved of sciento-
logists everywhere), all far more dangerous, far-reaching and insidious than
your pet peeve Ritalin.

  'Nuff said.

  I. R.

(usual disclaimer about absolute responsibility for written materials goes here)
Newsgroups: alt.religion.scientology
From: lindsay+@cs.cmu.edu (Donald Lindsay)
Newsgroups: alt.religion.scientology
Subject: Re: ABLE
Date: 29 Sep 92 21:42:51 GMT
Organization: School of Computer Science, Carnegie Mellon


sboswell@sdcc13.ucsd.edu (Xianity is stupid) writes:
>According to a news article I saw posted in the San Diego org (from a
>standard newspaper too, not a Church publication), the Purification Rundown
>has been validated by the World Health Organization, among others.
>
>Is the WHO reputable enough for you?

Yes. However, you are giving me a report of what a journalist
thought.  In my experience, reports of reports of reports do not
often resemble the original.

Can you dig up a more precise reference - not to the newspaper,
but to the WHO report?

It would also be interesting to know why Narconon Chilocco hasn't
been trumpeting this - was the article extremely recent?
-- 
Don		D.C.Lindsay 	Carnegie Mellon Computer Science
From: spl@szechuan.ucsd.edu (Steve Lamont)
Newsgroups: alt.religion.scientology
Subject: Re: Drugs in the Classroom  (Was - Re: Re: Creed.)
Date: 6 Oct 92 03:20:31 GMT
Organization: University of Calif., San Diego/Microscopy and Imaging Resource
NNTP-Posting-Host: szechuan.ucsd.edu

In article <1992Oct5.214933.7971@ac.dal.ca> 06zonker@ac.dal.ca writes:
>In article <1ahsiqINNmit@network.ucsd.edu>, spl@pitstop.ucsd.edu (Steve Lamont) writes:
>> The answer is just *too* easy.
>
> Scientology's answers are just *too* sleazy. 

Just to set the record straight, since the quoted posting might be
misleading.  My intention was not to defend Scientology or its
precepts.  I'm not a believer in Scientology or any other religion,
organized or otherwise.  My point of discussion was the morality,
efficacy, and desirability of what is becoming the all too frequent
use of drugs such as Ritalin in controlling "hyperactive" children.

Time to hit "U," I think.

							spl
-- 
Steve Lamont, SciViGuy -- (619) 534-7968 -- spl@szechuan.ucsd.edu
UCSD Microscopy and Imaging Resource/UCSD Med School/La Jolla, CA 92093-0608
"If you don't think people are this crazy, you need to move to LA!"
                                     - Gary Stollman
From: spl@pitstop.ucsd.edu (Steve Lamont)
Newsgroups: alt.religion.scientology
Subject: Re: Very Well Done.
Date: 28 Sep 1992 20:54:37 GMT
Organization: University of Calif., San Diego/Microscopy and Imaging Resource
NNTP-Posting-Host: pitstop.ucsd.edu

In article <1992Sep22.190624.3363@memstvx1.memst.edu> isds11990012@memstvx1.memst.edu writes:
>If I may, I would like to very strongly validate those people who have 
>tried to bring the truth of Scientology technology to this newsgroup.
>Very Well Done to you!!!

... I'll have mine medium rare... with a side order of baloney.

							spl
-- 
Steve Lamont, SciViGuy -- (619) 534-7968 -- spl@szechuan.ucsd.edu
UCSD Microscopy and Imaging Resource/UCSD Med School/La Jolla, CA 92093-0608
"When the cells are talking, you have to listen to them..."
                            - Liz Yoder, UCSD Neuroscience graduate student
From: homer@theory.TC.Cornell.EDU (Homer Smith)
Subject: Re: double blind
Organization: Cornell Theory Center
Date: Sun, 27 Sep 1992 15:13:00 GMT

>A fourth argument is that Scientologists don't seem to use their
>amazing abilities to their own advantage. For example, the man who
>was Hubbard's bodyguard at one point, tells about being sent out to
>the stores and bookshops, looking for things. He now wonders why, if
>Hubbard was such a shark, he hadn't exteriorized, *found* the things,
>and just sent the bodyguard to the right place.
 
     Well now, you got a point here.  The Scientologists were busted
for raiding the FBI offices and such looking for evidence that they
had on the them.  Presumably if these guys could exteriorize as they
say they can, then they would never have had a need to physically 
raid someone's office they would never have been busted and never
have been raided in turn by the FBI.  That would have saved them
a whole lot of trouble.
 
     So either they can't do it, or they can do it but in a limited
fashion, or they won't do it out of some ethical or other reason.

     Or maybe they sent lower level types to do the dirty work, but one
wonders why they had to.
 
     Anyhow, didn't someone mention that externalization is highly
unstable, and tha once someone gets out, they often get freaked
and go back in too hard to get out again?
 
     Something about revivifying memories of death, but I don't
remember the post...

     Anyhow the thought of exteriorizing scares the hell out of me.

     Why?  Dunno, monster feelings...

     But Don, $10,000 would not be enough for me to demonstrate
such powers if I had it.  I suppose every man has his price, but
that implies that you are buying him off against his better judgement.
 
     Why is it so strange to you that a person could feel endangered
by demonstrating such powers.  In fact I am surprised that anyone
admits to being able to do it, its such a reputation killer.
And if you do show it, you life is over, as John says.  Maybe
you won't die, or be killed, but you would become a circus
side show and a government employee over night.
 
     Homer
Newsgroups: alt.religion.scientology
Subject: Two questions...
From: Ian N.G. Anema <A605A559@HASARA11.BITNET>
Date: Saturday, 3 Oct 1992 00:18:05 CET
Organization: SARA - Stichting Academisch Rekencentrum Amsterdam

1. What exactly is 'Clearsound'?
2. What ever happened to Lafayette Ron Hubbard?
From: jerry@lds-az.loral.com (J Barbera)
Newsgroups: alt.religion.scientology
Subject: Re: exteriorization
Date: 6 Oct 92 02:00:12 GMT
Organization: Loral Defense Systems Arizona

Re: acquiring thetans

Up until that message, I actually assumed you had a good understanding of
Scientology.  Maybe a little more research on your part would make some of
your statements more credible.

After all, it's the misunderstanding of such basic concepts which make people
question the whole subject...

(Have a nice day!)
From: 06zonker@ac.dal.ca
Newsgroups: alt.religion.scientology
Subject: Re: double blind
Date: 28 Sep 92 21:25:04 -0300
Organization: Dalhousie University, Halifax, Nova Scotia, Canada

In article <1992Sep27.153301.16077@tc.cornell.edu>, homer@theory.TC.Cornell.EDU (Homer Smith) writes:


  (delete, delete, purge,purge, snicker, delete)


> 
> need to prove that Scientology works in the super human arena of
> improvement.
> 
>      In fact I doubt they really want to get involved with proving
> that it works at all to anyone, there are probably lots of
> people who gladly will partake of their offerings with a mild
> invitation. (Hint, Hint John and Dave.)
> 
>      And if they did start to lose the battle I think they would
> probably just go ahead and use those alleged powers, if they
> have them, and win their war without ever showing anyone what
> they were up to.
>  
>      Even I can see that it would not take a massive world wide public
> show of super human power to actually handle the suppression against
> me, if I were in their shoes.  I would personally take a very quiet
> route, albeit a deadly one to my enemies.
>  
>      Anyhow me thinks that the Scientologists suffer from a
> sort of Prime Directive.  They want others to have power, but they
> don't want themselves to be considered Gods.  A demonstration
> of power on the order of what you are claiming here, would
> seriously upset the entire scientific and RELIGIOUS world.  Nothing would
> be sure about anything for a long time.  People would
> immediately lose their faith in the government, because the government
> DIDN'T HAVE those powers and probably (from my reading of it) don't
> have the ethics to get them back either.
>  
>      Thus any show of powers would place our government in disgrace
> in the people's eyes.  Suddenly people, who really did not want
> that kind of power themselves, would look to the person
> who had it for all the solutions to their problems.
>  
>      A lot of people who hate the government would be knocking
> at your door asking, demanding, forcing, theatening you to help
> them take the government down, and the govnerment would be
> doing likewise.
>  
>      Any fool can TALK about powers, and any bigger fool can
> believe him and seek such powers themselves, don't you see?
> But once you get them and prove it, boy I would think
> that is a WHOLE 'nother ball game.
>  
>      If I were superman I wouldn't even wear my cape under my clothes.
>  
>      Homer


####################################################################

  Oh....  :)  I'm so embarassed....sarcasm, right?  It was all sarcasm...
And here I thought you were actually trying to impress Marvel Comic
scouts lurking in the Net....geeeezzz... It was a long day...must've been..

I.R.