HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: rslugg@med.unc.edu (Robert Slugg)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: guns vs. K9s
Date: 5 Jan 93 23:14:53 GMT
Organization: UNC-CH School of Medicine

Having encountered several wild dogs at close quarters with only a bolt
action rifle (I thought there was only one dog on our sheep farm at the
time), I only have three things to say.  Shotgun, Shotgun, and Shotgun.

Bob

PS  Buckshot, Buckshot, and Buckshot ;-)
From: LZN@PSUVM.PSU.EDU (PETER KAUFMAN)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: ambi safety 45 acp
Date: 7 Jan 93 13:47:42 GMT
Organization: Penn State University

I recently bought a Colt Gold Cup 45 and being a southpaw I am interested in pu
tting an ambi safety on it.  Does anyone have any reccomendations of brands.
This may be a carry gun so extended safetys may be out.
Thanks in advance.

Peter
From: mdb@netcom.com (Mark Bisgeier)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: 30 Remington ammo
Date: 6 Jan 93 22:25:59 GMT
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services  (408 241-9760 guest)

Does anyone have an inexpensive source for 30 Rem ammo?  Are prices
available?  (Seems to go for $15-$20/box of 20 in L.A. area.)

Thanks

-- 

Mark Bisgeier              mdb@netcom.com

        ...Let your mind wander...
From: ems@michael.apple.com (E. Michael Smith)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: Black-powder, Pyrodex  or ?
Date: 5 Jan 93 14:54:49 GMT
Organization: Circle 'C' Shellfish Ranch, Shores-of-the-Pacific, California

In article <1993Jan2.192534.27149@ra.msstate.edu> dnewcomb@whale.st.usm.edu (Donald R. Newcomb) writes:
#Does Pyrodex cause this rust or is it the caps? Are there ways to get
#around the rusting? Is there a black-powder substitute that works like
#smokeless powder? Advice & opinions appreciated.
 
#[MODERATOR: I don't think I'd recommend throwing in any Unique ... I
#have no experiences along those lines, but it doesn't sound prudent to
#me.  For what its worth.   Anyway, I just want to add a request that
#those of you who answer Donald's post might also comment in general on
#the interchangeability of black powder and pyrodex.  Santa Claus brought
#a reproduction 1851 navy colt to the magnum household, and your humble
#moderator will be playing with coal burners for the first time... ]

I've been drooling over a Stainless Ruger or Remington clone for a 
while, but have found nowhere to shoot one ...

For what it's worth:  For several Black Powder cartridges listed in
'Cartridges of the World' the author lists 4198 as a powder used for
smokeless loadings.  If you like, I can look up a couple and post
the representative loadings ... X grains of BP vs Y grains of 4198 ...





-- 

E. Michael Smith  ems@apple.COM

'Whatever you can do, or dream you can, begin it.  Boldness has
 genius, power and magic in it.'  -  Goethe

I am not responsible nor is anyone else.  Everything is disclaimed.
From: jheath@fieldofdreams.npirs.purdue.edu (Jim Heath)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: Self Protect Handgun vs. Shotgun.
Date: 8 Jan 93 22:22:35 GMT
Organization: Center for Environmental and Regulatory Information Systems, Purdue University

#From article <1993Jan5.094136.21936@michael.apple.com>, by ems@michael.apple.com (E. Michael Smith):
# Go for a 12 ga. with 'Dove and Target' loads or a .45 at about 
# 750 fps with a very soft slug or very open hollow point like the 200 gr.
# Speer.  One could also use shot shells, but at the cost of less
# effective stopping.  Glaser Saftey Slugs in a .45 ACP sould be
# just dandy.
# 

If you live in a place where they have winters, may I suggest #4 buck or
larger for the shotgun?  Likewise, I have read that the Glasers don't do
too well against winter clothing.  I have heard various claims as to
whether or not hollow points work well through clothing, but I believe
they should do better than the Glasers (and Glaser competitors).

'Course, you could always use a round that is unlikely to exit the average
human male body and DON'T MISS ;-{).
-- 
"Land of song, said the warrior bard,           Jim Heath
Though all the world betrays thee.
One sword, at least, thy rights shall guard, (The Minstrel Boy)
One faithful harp will praise thee."         (Thomas Moore)
Xref: sparky rec.guns:19283 talk.politics.guns:26274
From: lvc@cbvox1.att.com
Newsgroups: rec.guns,talk.politics.guns
Subject: Liability insurance for gun dealers ?
Date: 10 Jan 93 04:34:56 GMT
Followup-To: talk.politics.guns
Organization: Ideology Busters, Inc.

The post about the SKS slam-fire reminded me I have been meaning
to find out what type of liability insurance is available to gun
dealers.  What sort of coverage is available, what does it cost,
does NASD or other dealer organizations offer it to members.
-- 
Larry Cipriani, att!cbvox1!lvc or lvc@cbvox1.att.com
From: C96@vm.urz.Uni-Heidelberg.de (Alexander EICHENER)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: The world's smallest production revolver
Date: 11 Jan 93 16:18:59 GMT
Organization: University of Heidelberg, Germany

In article <9301080650.AA15837@zippy.cs.UMD.EDU>
C08926RC@WUVMD.Wustl.Edu (Rob) writes:

##I've got a NAA 1.25" in .22 Short to complete my collection  :-)
##I believe it is the world's smallest production revolver.

Probably not quite. The smallest one I know (and own, BTW) is the
2 mm pinfire Xythos revolver (at least that was the former brandname).
Factory ammo is blank only, but you can easily make up handloads
using shot pellets. A nice little gun, although not easy to point :-)
   I feel I should post a gun review about this one some time...

Greetings, Alexander Eichener <c96@vm.urz.uni-heidelberg.de>
From: henryc@panix.com (Henry Chan)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: airguns forsale
Date: 12 Jan 93 14:09:08 GMT
Organization: PANIX Public Access Unix & Internet, NYC

.177 Manu-Arm target style pistol.  Barrel break design, 400 fps, comes
with carrying case.  Asking $30

.177 Crosman 357 style CO2 revolver.  Looks just like a Python 357, comes
with 8" and 4" trooper style barrels.   Asking $30

Crosman UZI style CO2 repeater BB gun.  Asking $30

Barrel break spring rifle of Spanish origin.  Nice wood stock, rail mount, 
600 fps.  Asking $35

Crosman AIR-17 bb/pellet rifle.  Single pump pneumatic, supposely looks like
an M-16 rifle.  Asking $35

The UZI and AIR-17 are no longer in production, maybe due to the work of the
anti-assault bb gun lobby?

Buy any two and I pay postage.


-- 
" I am from the planet Larson on the far side of the Galaxy" said the
space cow invading St. Canard -Dark Wing Duck

HenryC@Panix.Com
From: th2_oate@csd.uwe-bristol.ac.uk (Tom Oates)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: Silenced rifles in WW2
Date: 12 Jan 93 22:17:51 GMT
Organization: University of the West of England, Bristol

In article <82Xu02TV302t01@JUTS.ccc.amdahl.com> jmg20@duts.ccc.amdahl.com (  911  James Gouldsbury) writes:
#
#      Would any of the readers of this group know if rifles were available
#      in WW2 in West Germany with silencers attached.
#      If so what kind of rifles were they.

West Germany didn't exist during WW2. Back then it was the 3rd Reich. I've
never found any references made to silenced rifles used in Germany. Perhaps
someone else can tell you.

However, there was a rifle used by the British SOE during WW2 that was deployed
in moderate numbers in occupied Europe from 1944 onwards. It was called the 
De Lisle carbine. It was a modified Lee Enfield rifle with an integral
silencer. It was chambered for the .45 ACP cartridge and would group at 
two inches at 75 yards. From all accounts it was a very quiet weapon indeed.

-- 
****************************************************************************** 
* Tom Oates (Univ. of West of England) * DISCLAIMER:I speak only for myself. * 
* Email to: th2_oate@uk.ac.uwe.csd     * PGP 2.1 Key available upon request. *
******************************************************************************
From: mfolenta@pica.army.mil
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: 7.62mm ammo
Date: 9 Jan 93 14:24:59 GMT

In article <9301080348.AA02834@scorpio.ic.cmc.ca> Keith de Solla wrote:
# In case its of interest to someone, I pulled apart a round of 7.62mm
# NATO ammo (Canadian made).  The powder looks similar to the IMR 4895
# that I use & weighed about 41.5gr.  The bullet is a FMJ boattail
# design with an exposed lead base & weighed approx 145gr.
# 
# -------------------------------------------------------------------
# | Keith P. de Solla, P.Eng |  "Be sure brain is engaged before    |
# | CMC                      |   putting mouth in gear"             |
# | keith@orion.ic.cmc.ca    |                                      |

   
     WARNING !!!

     Just in case some forgot, don't ASSUME that because a gunpowder
 LOOKS like another one that it _is_ the other one.  Bad mistake!

     Many powders look very similar and it is easy to say they 'look'
 similar.  

     It is interesting that there were 41.5 grains of powder and that
 the bullet was approximately 145 grain, but DO NOT try to cook up
 a load based on this information alone!  Check a loading manual for
 loads and double check it against another manual to be sure(er).

     And remember that military brass is usually thicker, which drops
 case capacity and raises chamber pressures.

     NEVER try to (positively) identify a powder by sight alone!!!
 If you don't KNOW what the powder is 100% for sure, then you don't
 know what the powder is.  PERIOD.

     Now there very well may be a recognized (published) load for
 .308 Winchester that uses 41+ grains of IMR 4895 and a 145 grain FMJ
 boattail, but my reloading manuals aren't here so I can't check.

     If there is such a load, then great.  But the warning still stands.
 Never try to play 'Name that Powder'.  


       ***** These are my opinions.  Get your own. :-) *****
      Michael Folenta          | U.S. Army ARDEC
   Future Weapons Branch       | Picatinny Arsenal, NJ 07806-5000
  email mfolenta@pica.army.mil | (201) 724-3880  [AV 880-3880]
From: btree!hale@UCSD.EDU (Bob Hale)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: Slam-fire Translation
Date: 11 Jan 93 23:31:15 GMT
Organization: Brooktree Corporation, San Diego

In article <9301090728.AA22894@zippy.cs.UMD.EDU> C08926RC@WUVMD.Wustl.Edu (Rob) writes:
[ SKS slam-fire and full auto deleted ]
#My theory:
#
#The guy got the gun and didn't bother to clean it before shooting.
#There was probably dirt or gunk in the bolt, causing the firing pin
#to stick forward.  When he released the bolt, the gun fired.  Since
#he didn't have it under control, the gun proceeded backwards.  The
#firing pin remained stuck, causing all rounds to chamber and fire.


Many of the SKS rifles are packed with grease completely filling
all the nooks and crannies.  It is possible that someone might
just do a cleaning of the obvious exterior places and not realize
that the interior parts also need to be degreased.  This could
leave grease in the firing pin area of the bolt, effectively
locking the firing pin in the forward position.

Automotive brake cleaner works very well at degreasing firearms.
It gets into all the little spots and dissolves the grease, and
then it evaporates.  Convenience in a can.

Bob Hale                                      ...!ucsd!btree!hale
...!btree!hale@ucsd.edu                       ...!ucsd!btree!hale@uunet.uu.net
From: n9020351@henson.cc.wwu.edu (James Douglas Del-Vecchio)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: Where to order??
Date: 8 Jan 93 14:06:48 GMT
Organization: Western Washington University

roa@galen.med.Virginia.EDU (Robert O. Anderson Jr.) writes:


#My son was somewhat disappointed with the preformance of his .243 this year.

	Accuracy or ballistics?   For Deer?
JD
From: cjp@megatek.com (Chris "Systems Stud" Pikus)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: .22 Magnum Semi-Autos?
Date: 5 Jan 93 14:55:19 GMT
Organization: Megatek Corporation, San Diego, California

#From article <01GT2YPH8GQG91WNJK@vega.selu.edu>, by pusv1305@altair.selu.edu:
# Has anyone seen a .22 Magnum Semi-Auto Pistol or Rifle?  NO DERRINGERS.

	Funny you should ask, I was just thinking about buying the very
same thing the other day. [but then several readers of this forum know
thay I daydream about buying just about every gun there is at one time
or another. ;-) ]

	Anyway, when I saw this question, I refrained from replying until
I did my research. Sorted through back issues of "Soldier of Fortune" and
found that they did a review on a Grendel P-30 in the June 1992 issue.

	To sum up for those that are a little too embarrassed to let this
journal lay around on the coffee-table/office/whatever, here are the
salient bits:

	Grendel P-30
	Polymer autopistol (like a glock)

	30 (YES, THIRTY) rounds of .22 Win Mag Rimfire
	magazine fed. -- but then who needs to reload?
	straight blowback , fluted chamber to assist extraction

	3 model variants: 5 inch barrel, 8 inch target, 8" w/ muzzle brake
	weight, empty: 21oz, 29oz, 30oz  respectively (lighter than a beretta)
	full magazine weighs about 6 oz.

	about the size of a beretta 92f  (bigger than I'd like, not a backup)

	suggested retail: $225, $280, $295 respectively.

	address:	Grendel Inc,
			P.O.Box 560909
			Rockledge, FL 32956

	They have no distributors and they only fill backorders. If you
want one, you should have your dealer order it and wait two months for it.

	Unlike other grendel pistols, this one allegedly breaks down easily
for cleaning. Article mentions that it needs cleaning about every 200 rounds
due to excess fouling (even more than .22LR). Lots of muzzle blast, but then
this is a magnum rimfire.

	I'll stop now before it sounds like an advertisement, the article
summed it up as a kinda ideal backpacker/kit gun.


	P.S. ballistics on .22WMR from Cartridges of the World:

	.22 Win. Rimfire (WRF)		40 gr, 1440 fps, 185 ft-lbs
	.22 Win. MAG Rimfire (WMR)	40 gr, 1550 fps, 210 ft-lbs
	.38 Special		       158 gr,  753 fps, 200 ft-lbs
	.380 Auto (9x17mm)		95 gr,  955 fps, 192 ft-lbs

	The magazine article sort of got the two either confused and/or
ambiguous. I'm tempted to go with the bottom set of ballistics. I threw
in ballistics for .38 spl for comparison.


-- 
Christopher J. Pikus,        | "...  the trouble with the politics of
Megatek Corp., San Diego, CA | lowered expectations is that whenever you
INTERNET: cjp@megatek.com    | think you've lowered them enough, you have
UUCP: uunet!megatek!cjp      | to lower them again."   -- Michael Kinsley
From: tld@wuphys.wustl.edu (Tyrone Daulton)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: Gun Laws - Informational Posting
Date: 8 Jan 93 00:00:03 GMT
Organization: Washington U. Physics Dept

Hello,
    I own a Colt AR-15A2 and a Berretta AR-70, both semi-automatic
    .223 cal. rifles.  I am relocating to Arizona and would appreciate
    it if someone could enlighten me on the gun laws in Arizona.  I am
    transporting the guns in my car with me, and would also appreciate and
    comments are suggests regarding their transportation from Missouri, 
    where I live now.     Thank you,
			  Tyrone L. Daulton
			  tld@wuphys.wustl.edu
			  Washington University in St. Louis
			  Department of Physics
From: jgreely@morganucodon.cis.ohio-state.edu (J Greely)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: Shooting Straight Up
Date: 8 Jan 93 22:22:47 GMT
Organization: Ohio State University Computer and Information Science

In article <C0IFMJ.9ny@SSD.intel.com> hays@SSD.intel.com (Kirk Hays) writes:
#As always, Hatcher's _Notebooks_ are the definitive reference for
#this question.  Unfortunately, my copy is several hundred miles away.
#Anybody?

My copy is two feet away (right next to the Perl book in my office),
so I'll post a summary of the relevant section (Chapter 20, "Bullets
from the sky"):

	1. a bullet fired straight up is unlikely to land anywhere
	   near the shooter; even if there is no wind at the surface,
	   it will usually encounter some wind deflection somewhere in
	   its flight (page 513):
		"Out of more than 500 shots fired after adjusting the
		 gun so as to bring the shots as nearly as possible
		 onto the [10 foot square firing] platform, only 4
		 shots hit it... One of the shots that hit the
		 platform was a Service .30-06, 150-grain flat-based
		 bullet, which came down base first (as that bullet
		 usually does), and bounced into the water after
		 striking the edge of the lower platform.  It left a
		 mark about 1/16 inch deep in the soft pine board."
	2. the bullet may take quite a while to land (40-100 seconds
	   in this case (pages 515-516)), and the time will depend on
	   whether or not the spin was sufficient to keep it stable
	   (as in the quote above).
	3. return energy will be very low, much lower than even a
	   long-range horizontal shot.  Their estimate for the
	   remaining energy of the .30-06 bullets in their tests was
	   30 foot-pounds (page 514), which is less than one-tenth of
	   what it would have at 1000 yards if fired horizontally
	   (page 401).
	4. Neglecting air resistance, terminal velocity, and ballistic
	   coefficient in your back-of-the envelope calculation is
	   fatal to your results (page 516):
		"Calculations indicate that the 150-grain .30-caliber
		 Service bullet fired straight up at a muzzle velocity
		 of 2700 feet per second will rise 9000 feet, taking
		 about 18 seconds to do it; and that it takes 31
		 seconds to return to earth, the last few thousand
		 feet of the fall being at a nearly constant speed of
		 a bit over 300 feet per second."
	5. None of this can necessarily be used to derive even decent
	   ballpark estimates for pistols.  You'd need to run the
	   experiment to get initial data, and then compute the
	   terminal velocities for base-first, tumbling, and
	   point-first returns.  Hatcher's tests were limited to
	   military rifles, unfortunately, and so were all of the
	   other tests he references.


For those who don't have a copy:
	Hatcher's Notebook
	by Julian S. Hatcher, Major General, USA, Retired
	Stackpole Books, Harrisburg, Pennsylvania
	ISBN 0-8117-0614-1
	$24.95 (hardcover)
-- 
J Greely (jgreely@cis.ohio-state.edu; osu-cis!jgreely)
From: petekunz@iiic.ethz.ch (Peter John Kunz)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: Glock 18 Discussion
Date: 11 Jan 93 23:30:42 GMT
Organization: Dept. Informatik, Swiss Federal Institute of Technology (ETH), Zurich, CH

In article <9301071410.AA07624@gyre.cs.UMD.EDU> wmartin@STL-06SIMA.ARMY.MIL (Will Martin) writes:
#Those who were interested in the Glock 18 discussion should take a look
#at the new DBI (Gun Digest) book COMBAT HANDGUNNERY, 3rd Edition, by Chuck
#Karwan. Beginning on page 162 is an article on and evaluation of the Glock 18.
#(Note that the edition number is important -- the content changes entirely
#between editions.)
#
was there a discussion on i missed? well, if there are any questions, my friend has one and i'll try to answer.


cu
-pete



-- 
Peter J. Kunz	Vogesenstr. 60	4106 Therwil	Switzerland
petekunz@iiic.ethz.ch	pkunz@amiga.physik.unizh.ch
From: holger@vmars.tuwien.ac.at (Holger Reusch (Dipl. Gerhard + Joe))
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: Self Protect Handgun vs. Shotgun.
Date: 5 Jan 93 14:55:22 GMT
Organization: Technical University Vienna, Dept. for Realtime Systems, AUSTRIA

pusv1305@altair.selu.edu writes:
#I am trying to decide on an appropreate personal protection pistol and or
#shotgun?  I have looked at ballistics and energy on impack for different
#ranges.  I figure a maximum range of 30 yards, for this porpose.  I also live
#in a neighborhood where homes are close together, and thin walled.  For this
#reason I dont want something that will go through my house and the neighbors,
#ect.  I do however want one shot stopping!  A possible might be the .22 Magnum,
#the ballistics i've seen rate it up there with a .38, but I havent seen many on
#the market.  I am not in a situation to get up if the first shot misses and
#beat the perp. over the head.  I'm open to suggestions.  

Suggestion #1:  Don't count on one shot stops.  While  there  are
impressive  statistics  about  the  OSS  propability of different
rounds (Marshall/Sanow), there is no single round where  you  can
depend  on  a  single round stoppage (except from an explosive 2"
artillery shell with contact ignition, perhaps  :-)  for  defense
against human beings.

As a rule (of  thumb), stopping power is not only proportional to
the  bullet  energy,  the  bullet  *diameter*  is important, too.
Hence, a .22 bullet is never as effective as a .38  bullet.  It's
better than nothing, but that's all.

Suggestion #2:  Higher stopping power usually means more penetra-
tion.   TANSTAAFL.   Stay away from fast rounds (read: all magnum
rounds) if you are concerned because of penetration.

Final suggestion:  Get a 12ga shotgun (pump or  semi-auto),  load
it  with  #4 (or above) shotshells.  Shot pellets don't penetrate
easily and the combined shot load ought to stop most anybody.

-- 
| Holger Reusch                             |
| Technical University of Vienna, Austria <-+--- No kangaroos here,
| Dept. for Real-Time Systems               |    sorry!
| holger@vmars.tuwien.ac.at                 |
From: drkerns@sony7.sdrc.com (sean kerns)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: Blackpowder and smokeless loads.
Date: 6 Jan 93 18:22:26 GMT
Organization: SDRC


This may be a little off the subject, but aren't there conversions for using
cartridges in black powder pistols? If all you want to do is shoot cartridges
in a black powder gun, I would think this would solve the problem.

SRK
From: ghm@sserve.cc.adfa.oz.au (Geoff Miller)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: Speaking of .32 H&R magnum
Date: 8 Jan 93 14:06:22 GMT
Organization: Australian Defence Force Academy, Canberra, Australia

bobd@marune.acs.ohio-state.edu (Bob DeBula) writes:

#I never remember hearing any mention of the existence of any Sako pistols,
#here in the US, either for that matter. Sounds neat though (given 
#Sako's reputation for quality in rifles). Apparently, the selection of 
#32 S&W long autoloaders is much better in Europe than it is here.

This is simply due to the popularity of the UIT Centrefire match,
for which .32 S&W Long or the .32 Russian cartridge (not sure of its
proper designation, but it's chambered in a very accurate target
revolver) are very popular choices.  As the match is only shot
over a 25-metre range, and the .32 holes are still scored with a
.38 gauge, there's no advantage in going to a .38 and, for those
who shoot multi-calibre guns like the Walther, Hammerli or Sako,
many advantages in the .32.

Geoff Miller  (g-miller@adfa.oz.au)
Computer Centre, Australian Defence Force Academy
From: jheath@fieldofdreams.npirs.purdue.edu (Jim Heath)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Lee Progressive Shotshell reloader
Date: 5 Jan 93 23:15:20 GMT
Organization: Center for Environmental and Regulatory Information Systems, Purdue University

I am thinking of getting one of these and wondered if anyone had used one.
-- 
"Land of song, said the warrior bard,           Jim Heath
Though all the world betrays thee.
One sword, at least, thy rights shall guard, (The Minstrel Boy)
One faithful harp will praise thee."         (Thomas Moore)
From: miles@ms.uky.edu (Stephen D. Grant)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: Night Sights?
Date: 8 Jan 93 22:22:52 GMT
Organization: University of Kentucky, USA. -5 GMT

It should be noted that Meprolight was the company that "revamped" their
product line. I ordered a set for a P226 when they first came out. Frankly,
they sucked. The front sight (while being a dove-tail type on the gun)
required you to drill a hole in the front blade to install! They have fixed
that particular problem. They also claim to be brighter now. The Trijicons I
owned (several) have always had a bright crisp "focused" look to them.
There is a new brand out that claims to be "the brightest". They also have a
10 year warranty. And their price is better than Meprolight or Trijicons.
They are made by Innovative Weaponry Inc. I am going to order a set to try
them out. They offer a set for the AR-15 that has a one-dot front blade, and
a two-dot "subdued" ring-type rear sight. The "subdued" rear dots supposedly
makes sight aquisition easier and faster. I "think" they use a lens system
like Trijis do also. Not sure though...