From: keb3_ss@uhura.cc.rochester.edu (Karin E. Baker)
Newsgroups: alt.rush-limbaugh,alt.politics.clinton,alt.politics.bush,alt.politics.homosexuality,alt.fan.rush-limbaugh
Subject: Re: Showering in the Military (Re: Gays in the Military..what nobody is talking about:)
Date: 19 Dec 92 15:48:28 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: University of Rochester - Rochester, New York

In <1992Dec17.013630.22580@galileo.physics.arizona.edu> krueger@galileo.physics.arizona.edu (Ted Krueger) writes:

>In article <BzDowr.Gvv@acsu.buffalo.edu> v108jqur@ubvmsd.cc.buffalo.edu (ANTHONY PAUL AVERY) writes:
>>In article <1992Dec14.184223.25697@galileo.physics.arizona.edu>, krueger@galileo.physics.arizona.edu (Ted Krueger) writes...
>>>In article <00964F02.484AF800@vms.csd.mu.edu> 9073hammesm@vms.csd.mu.edu writes:
>>>>
>>>>Is it written in stone somewhere that recruits HAVE to shower together?
>>>>Showering seems to be the big problem with having gays in the military.
>>>>Hasn't anyone thought of putting up curtains?  Most women's locker rooms
>>>>have them.  This fear of the shower is IMHO given too much emphasis since
>>>>many persons in the military live off base anyway.  I agree privacy is
>>>>important and the issue should be dealt, but accommodating privacy can
>>>>be done without banning gays.
>>>>
>>>>Flame away!
>>> 
>>>No need for flames.  You simply know very little about the military.  When 
>>>women were allowed into the military, millions of dollars were spent in 
>>>order to provide separate facilities for them.  Likewise, dollars will have 
>>>to be spent to provide separate facilities for gays.  Before you answer, 
>>>"They can use the same facilities as heteros." let me ask you:  Who will 
>>>decide that?  So far, gays (and a few simpathizers) want to shower with 
>>>heteros, and don't think it will be a big deal.  Most heteros (esp. in the 
>>>active duty now), will think it is a very big deal.  This leads us right 
>>>back to a point I made about a week ago.  Nobody cares a lick about how 
>>>the heteros will feel about this.  We are not PC.  We do not matter.
>>> 
>>>In addition, you imply that a large percentage of military live off base.  
>>>You might be surprised to learn that the overwhelming, vast majority of 
>>>single people in the military live in barracks (or in dorm situations on 
>>>ships, etc.)
>>> 
>>>Ted
>>> 
>>>-- 
>>	I Would like to respond and just say that ted, you have to 
>>remember that unlike blacks, gays DO NOT usually stand out unless
>>heterosexuals (and closeted gays) plan on giving us pink triangles to wear in 
>>the military - sound familar?

>OH BOY!  The obligitory Nazi accusation!  This is how you can really tell 
>that lefties (or at least the lefty in question) have run out of arguments!  

>Now why it took us about 1 month to get to nazis is beyond me, but we can 
>consider this thread completely dead now.  It's purpose has been served.



Why doesn't it surprise me, then, that this is being sent to (or started
by?) alt.rush.limbaugh.  It isn't an accusation of Naziism, what it is is 
a question about how the hell are you going to know who's gay and who 
isn't?  Are you going to require some sort of demarkation?  If you are, who, 
then is going to determine who must wear what, and will it be obligatory?

If it's decided by the government (and let's not draw in Naziism, let's start
with something a little closer to home, how about McCarthyism), then how are 
they going to know?  Oh he was at a gay bar so therefore he must be? Heaven
forbid some straight man, such as yourself, accidentally walks in the wrong
bar in georgetown, or the Village and then gets tatooed as homosexual.. al
the women will go running from you (if they don't already!).

I know plenty of people who enter the military (especially in the Acadamey
or ROTC) who don't know who they are when they go in, but discover themselves.
as a lot of students do during college military or not.  Should they volunteer
for a pink triangle or whatever demarkation, or start going to the gay 
showers the first day they think they might be attracted to men?

How are you going to know?

I run a college student group of about seventy five - eighty gay/lesbian/
and bisexual people.  If you filled up the student union, though, with 
people who knew all of us, and asked them to point out which ones of us 
are g/l/b, many people wouldn't even know more then the 10% who wear pink
triangles already on their own.

Are you suggesting someone who isn't even out to their parents jump into 
your gay shower?  Oh yeah.. I can see a lot of homosexuals in the military
just jumping to get into that shower versus the heterosexual shower.. just
jumping indeed.  Probably more horny het guys thinking they can get quickie
sex will be in there than gay ones..

As I said to you in my mail.. grow up, and get a grip on yourself.  If you 
feel secure in yourself, why should you care who anyone else is if they don't
harm you?


>Ted
>ZZ

>-- 
>So the Maples formed a union, and demanded equal rights, "The Oaks are just 
>too greedy.  We will make them give us light!"  Now there's no more Oak 
>oppression, for they passed a noble law.  And the trees are all kept equal, 
>by hatchet, axe and saw.     -  Rush, The Trees
-- 
;^) -Karin
keb3_ss@uhura.cc.rochester.edu
Newsgroups: alt.rush-limbaugh