From: loverde@ux1.cso.uiuc.edu (AstralWolf)
Subject: Re: SFII-CE Match-UPs and Ratings
Organization: University of Illinois at Urbana
Date: Sun, 13 Dec 1992 17:54:55 GMT

In <Bz516E.2yo@news.cso.uiuc.edu> skillian@ux4.cso.uiuc.edu (Seth James Killian) writes:

>
>	Hehehe...  While the Sagat pattern can be *very* tough to beat if
>	executed perfectly, any set pattern can be beat IMO.  My reasoning
>	is basically that pattern play (like you see to a greater or lesser
>	extent in most master Sagats) necessarily breeds a certain inflex-
>	ibility too.  By shaking things up with varied attacks and the 
>	occasional tick, you can rattle a lot of Sagats badly enough to win.
>	Sagat still has the advantage (IMO), and I think as Sagat's learn
>	to let go of the pattern once it has been broken, you will see more
>	Ken/Ryu's go down in flames.  
>
     Exactly.  Personally, I was impressed by the way you manage to keep
yourself in those very few advantageous spacings.  (even those spacings I
consider only slightly favoring Ken/Ryu)  But when it comes to Sagat, it
is very difficult not to get stuck in pattern type play, since most Ken/
Ryu's foolishly encourage it by repeatedly jumping in from the wrong spots,
trying to HK from the wrong place etc....you have no alternative.
I find playing against you with Sagat very interesting as it becomes a
battle to keep you out of those spots, and back into the pattern ;)
I keep getting fooled by that HK from a certain range and should probably
try to standing fierce punch it when I recognize where it is.  I think
that is my greatest flaw vs you with Sagat.  That and occasionally 
relying on the pattern even when you aran't in the right spot.  I'll have to
work on it...but it is really tough vs most Ken/Ryu's here since they don't
battle for those spaces...(actually I am not very good at it either...just
better than most because I know where to jump from and where not to...
unfortunately my hands don't always listen)

>>  Fireball trap?  I don't think so.  His FB speed is amazing, but the low
>>firebird is way easy to avoid for Ken/Ryu.  Nothing a short HK can't fix.
>>Guile has his problems...two low firebirds usually do the trick (roundhouse).
>>Most players that can propel their bodies (ie. Honda, Bison, etc.) also
>>should have any problems in escaping...  The FB trap usually gets started,
>>but it is broken by mixing up high- and low-tigers.  I doubt it can be
>>sustained as Ryu's can.  Other comments?
>
>	A Sagat FB trap?  I don't think so.  You can toss a slow FB followed
>	by a fast one (both crouching) and catch a guy who thinks he can 
>	jump in time, but after that, you are free, end of "trap".  Like
>	Caine mentioned, a short HK will get you out of this easily, Sagat's
>	recovery time is waaay too long to really trap Ken and Ryu, although
>	it can be very annoying at times.  Sagat's traps for Ken/Ryu are just
>	the tried but true crouching FB, late TU, and the FB sweep out of the
>	air thing.  For those of you who do not know, Sagat has sufficient 
>	range to roundhouse sweep Ken/Ryu out of the air (that is before they
>	hit the ground) if timed correctly.  I think Sagat's main advantage
>	lies in his natural strengths against the commonly dominating charac-
>	ters (Guile, Ryu).  That's it.  He is still Bison bait:)

     I disagree.  I believe the slow slow tiger trap from just over half the
screen (I realize I posted earlier it was half...but upon further though it
may be just over half) is an effective trap.  Even Ryu cannot HK out, since
Sagat can uppercut him (the spacing is critical....we don't want to go through
that ghostly image of Ryu as he lands)  However I have trouble keeping
people in this position if they are patient, and either jump straight up,
or DP through a tiger....

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Organization: Junior, Physics, Carnegie Mellon, Pittsburgh, PA