HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: pharvey@quack.sac.ca.us (Paul Harvey)
Subject: Re: wearing pagan/pentacle jewelry
Organization: The Duck Pond public unix: +1 408 249 9630, log in as 'guest'.
	<fYcf0Gf@quack.sac.ca.us> <1993Jan25.180507.21462@pasteur.Berkeley.EDU>
Date: 26 Jan 1993 01:35:07 UTC

In article <1993Jan25.180507.21462@pasteur.Berkeley.EDU> 
radzy%sradzy@jack.sns.com (T.O. Radzykewycz) writes:
>(I'm having trouble with my new machine.  Posted this a little
>while ago, but it doesn't seem to have come across, so I'm re-posting
>from the other machine.  Apologies.)
>jack@dcs.glasgow.ac.uk (Jack Campin) writes:
>>> James Webb's "The Occult Establishment" describes how
>>> the Nazis got to use the symbol: it occurs in both orientations in Indian
>>> iconography with no general distinction in meaning.
>pharvey@quack.sac.ca.us (Paul Harvey) writes:
>> This is not graffiti, it is religious iconography. There most certainly
>> is meaning.
>Jack didn't say there wasn't meaning.  He said there wasn't a distinction
>between the meaning of a sunwise and a widdershins version.

But there of course is a distinction. Is there a distinction between the
sun going east to south to west or west to south to east in the northern
hemisphere? Yes, there most certainly is. As I said, we are not talking
about graffiti here.
Newsgroups: alt.pagan
From: boylan@sltg04.ljo.dec.com (Steve Boylan)
Subject: Re: Green pentagon pentacles? (was Re: wearing pagan/pentacle jewelry)
Reply-To: boylan@ljohub.enet.dec.com (Steve Boylan)
Organization: Digital Equipment Corporation
Date: Thu, 21 Jan 1993 15:16:38 GMT


Great Earth and Water!  I'm gone for a week, and nobody else can
answer a simple question?

In article <ofKrGBi00VpCI3blgm@andrew.cmu.edu>, Daniel Patrick
Schanbacher <ds7o+@andrew.cmu.edu> writes:

> In the same vein, I am also looking for a Green Pentacle to wear
>  around my neck because I am an Irish Esperantist interested in
>  pagan symbology. (The Esperanto (international language) symbol 
> is a green star.) So what I wd like MOST is a green pentacle with a
>  pentagon rather than a circle around it. This is technically not a
>  pentacle. What is it? Has anyone seen one of these ever, green or no,
>  and know what it means? It wd probably only mean something to
>  me, since I havent seen it anywhere but in my head. 

(Ah, I just LOVE a challenge!)

"Technically", anything with 5 points/lobes/anything can be described
as a "pentacle".

But linguists debate over the derivation of the word "pentacle".  Some
hold that it's derived from "5-sided", while others hold that it's
derived from the same roots as "pendant", something that hangs down.
If one follows the latter derivation, anything you'd hang around your
neck could be described as a "pentacle".

That usage, however, is obscure today, and, if you use the word that
way, people will look at you funny.

I HAVE seen jewelry sold locally with both designs - a pentagram
(five-pointed star) inscribed in a pentagon as well as within a
circle.  Nearly all of those I've seen were silver, although I
seem to recall a green button with a pentagram inside a pentagon
drawn in black.


Well, okay, so maybe it wasn't so simple a question . . .

	:-)

				- - Steve



--
Don't miss the 49th New England Folk Festival,
April 23-25, 1993 in Natick, Massachusetts!
Newsgroups: alt.pagan
From: pciszek@nyx.cs.du.edu (Paul Ciszek)
Subject: Re: Pat Robertson
Organization: University of Denver, Dept. of Math & Comp. Sci.
Date: Mon, 25 Jan 93 22:25:51 GMT

tonya@csa2.lbl.gov (TONYA PUONCEY) writes:
>Re: Pat Robertson.
>I am so sick of this bastard.  He (1/20/93, 1.55 am) said that he
>is against the (paraphrase) "Ahem. Moral scourge of premarital sex"
>but It is a fact that he was passed over for Republican 
>presidential nomination in 1988 because he married his girlfriend
>out of wedlock (way out of wedlock, like 7 months!)

Uh, most people marry their fiancees out of wedlock.  Getting married IN
wedlock is a definate no-no, unless you are a Mormon or a Moslem.
From: amadeus@ccwf.cc.utexas.edu (Susan Harwood Kaczmarczik)
Newsgroups: alt.pagan
Subject: Re: "Winds' Four Quarters"
Date: 23 Jan 1993 05:24:35 GMT
Organization: University of Texas at Austin
NNTP-Posting-Host: mickey.cc.utexas.edu

an5445@anon.penet.fi (Bad Elf) writes:
>	I have been informed by someone who I believe has good reason to
>know that the song "Winds' Four Quarters" by Mercedes Lackey (found on the
>filk tapes "Magic, Moondust, and Melancholy" and "Oathbound" and frequently
>performed at SF&F conventions and SCA bardic circles) is basically a
>Wiccan invocation of the Goddess.  I would be very interested in comments
>on this; it's one of my best performance numbers, but I would probably either
>drop it or cut down on its use if it turns out that it's a "real" religious
>song and not a "pretend" one.  I have no problems whatsoever with Wiccans
>or other pagans (I wouldn't travel in the circles that I do now if I did),
>but I feel fairly strongly about using a religion not my own to entertain
>people or to "freak the mundanes".  Any comments on this would be greatly
>apprieciated.

Well, Misty is indeed a Wiccan high priestess, and I imagine any such
song that she wrote or co-wrote would be most effective in calling the
quarters (or whatever other ritual act she might put to music).
However, I'm sure she knows that many people who are not Witches will
be performing this song (and others).  Besides, her songs are not part
of any Wiccan "liturgy" or anything -- except, maybe, to people who
take her stories a little too seriously.

In short, although the song can be used as a "real" invocation, its
purpose is most likely entertainment first, utility second.  So go
ahead and sing it; you'll commit no blasphemy.  

>						Wind to your wings,
>						Keighvan

Would you like to know how bogus all of Misty's "Irish" etymologies
and orthographies are in the book from which that spelling of Kevin
comes?  Actually, you probably wouldn't.

Good luck with the music...

-- 
-----Susan Harwood Kaczmarczik-------------------------------*<:-)-------------
"Queens never make bargains."  -- The Red Queen, _Through the Looking Glass_
-----amadeus@ccwf.cc.utexas.edu--------------The University of Texas @Austin---
From: ailsa@wonky.UUCP (Ailsa N.T. Murphy)
Newsgroups: alt.pagan
Subject: Re: the Tarot deck I loved
Date: 21 Jan 93 00:35:35 GMT

In article <2B5CCB1D.27359@news.service.uci.edu>, cortese@skid.ps.uci.edu (Janis Maria Cortese) writes:
>
> Oh, and the Tarot I loved so much and now have two -- count `en TWO --
> copies of is the Daughters of the Moon.  I have two color versions.
> They make them in black and white so you can color them yourself, but
> the colors on the other deck were so vivid, I would never have been able
> to reproduce them.
>
hee hee.  told you so.  *grin*  that's MY deck, the one i swear by.  i
bought the UNcolored version YEARS ago, because i was in love with the
idea of a deck i could color myself, and i love it dearly.  none of the
cards are fully colored yet, as i color on design element (defined
loosely) every time i draw a card in a reading.  it's such fun to use,
and i feel liek it is more MY deck than any of the opthers because i am
helping create it.  wouldn't want to reproduce thier colors - i don't
like them as well as mine (of course *grin*).

> BTW, I am presently reading (on the advice of someone in another
> newsgroup -- soc.feminism) a book called _Women's Reality_ by Anne
> Schaef.  FUCKING READ IT!  If you are a woman, read it.  If you are a man
> who loves any other woman on thie Earth, read it.  READ IT READ IT READ
> IT READ IT READ IT!!!!!
>
yes.  do.  i read it a few years ago.  some of it helped me understand
myself, some of it helped me inderstand why my mother and sisters make
no sense sometimes.  (i speak male much better than female.)

>
> P.S.: Soc.feminism IS moderated, so it's quite palatable, although there
> is one guy in there who I'd love to hit in the face with a brick.  He
> has a head like the goddamed rock of Gibraltar.  Check it out.

ick.  not for me.  i decided long ago that feminism is just NOT
somehting i want to discuss with people i rabidly disagree with, as it
gives me stomachaches.  they have a right to their opinions, but i DON'T
want to hear them!

                                                -ailsa
From: SL500000@brownvm.brown.edu (Robert Mathiesen)
Newsgroups: alt.pagan
Subject: Re: contradiction?
Date: Thu, 28 Jan 1993 07:40:35 EST
Organization: Brown University - Providence, Rhode Island  USA
NNTP-Posting-Host: brownvm.brown.edu
X-News-Software: BNN via BNN_POST v1.0 beta

In article <C1JCqn.7A6@news.iastate.edu>, txdv1@isuvax.iastate.edu (Angela KAY
Rolling) said:
>
>>There is an irreconcilable logical contradiction between plain sense of
>>the saying of Jesus recorded in Matthew 12:30 = Luke 11:23 (He that is not
>>with me is against me) and Mark 9:40 (For he that is not against us is on
>>our part). Any questions?

>Yes. How is this a contradiction?

Yes.  Posit the existence of a Pagan who is neither "for" nor "against"
Christianity, and posit further a Christian who wishes to determine
whether to treat that Pagan as "for" or as "against" (the perils of
dichotomous thinking, there!), and proposes to make his decision on the
basis of Biblical principles.  By one variant of the saying, the Pagan
is to be counted as "for," by the other as "against."  It's pretty clear
that the variant prepositions for "for" in the original Greek [meta vs.
hyper] don't carry a significant difference in meaning here.
-- Robert
From: dhardin@bbn.com (Dawn Hardin)
Newsgroups: alt.pagan
Subject: Re: Bonding rituals
Date: 22 Jan 93 18:51:09 GMT
Organization: Bolt Beranek and Newman (BBN)
NNTP-Posting-Host: spcink.bbn.com

In article <107773@bu.edu> uni@acs.bu.edu (Shaen Bernhardt) writes:
>
>Recently a rift has developed between my lover and I.
>
>If anyone has any experience with bonding/love rituals, especially
>those in conjunction with the waxing moon I would love to hear from you.

My experience with bonding rituals are pretty bad.  I'd concentrate on
communication, both communication ritual and real world communication.
The best ritual stuff that I've found for this is talking to the other
person in a lucid dream.  The things that you hear *might* be full of
shit -- don't take it as gospel -- but your subconscious usually knows
what it's doing.  If you never lucid dream, then a visualization is
a second best.  It's difficult to shut your conscious mind up long enough
to hear what's really going on underneath (your brain tends to say things
like "but I don't feel like that", "but she wouldn't appear to me as a
monkey, this can't be right" or "this is silly, I better just quit.)
Especially if you hear things you don't want to hear.

My experience with bonding rituals is that they put the emphasis on the
wrong place, and you can wind up in a bad spot because you should have
left the relationship months before.  I think it's safer and smarter to
say "what's wrong" instead of "we gotta fix it, no matter what 'it' is."
And assuming that you have a fixable problem, it's better to concentrate
on that, rather than bonding no matter what.

Of course, sex is usually a pretty good bonding ritual, but if you're
physically seperated, that's going to be problematical. :-)

Dawn
-- 
"You have this adorable and misguided notion that death is something really
radical and cool but I still can't help being attracted to your fresh-faced
uncompromised tatoo-ed rebel stance and god damn, I'd like to help you
sing your tune."  "Folk Song..." by Bongwater
From: mimir@hardy.u.washington.edu (Al Billings)
Newsgroups: alt.pagan
Subject: Re: wearing pagan/pentacle jewelry
Date: 21 Jan 1993 06:05:01 GMT
Organization: The Friends of Loki Society
NNTP-Posting-Host: hardy.u.washington.edu

In article <C167M8.88x@dcs.glasgow.ac.uk> jack@dcs.glasgow.ac.uk (Jack Campin) writes:
>mimir@hardy.u.washington.edu (Al Billings) wrote:
>
>This is a peculiar way to look at it.  It isn't about "giving in" to the
>Nazis, it's about taking sides with the people they want to destroy.  It's
>unlikely that many people will notice a sunwheel earring: but wear a foot-
>across one on a T-shirt and you've adopted the uniform of the fascists.
>Just what would you then expect from people, like British Asians, who've
>seen that symbol painted on their front doors with threats of firebombs to
>follow, or seen it carved with a razor into their children's backs?

 Oh, yes, you're right! Wearing a Triskelion OBVIOUSLY makes people think
I'm some sort of Rightist Facist.

 Wake up, Buddy. In the States (which is where I am posting from and where
I am doing this), we don't have any of the little facist neo-nazi types
that appropriate Celtic and Germanic symbology. The Neo-Nazis here use the
Swastika and that is the worst it gets. When I see a person where a
Triskelion, I assume they are either Irish or in the Celtic League (a
celtic culture revival group here in North America) not that they are some
sort of Nazi. Don't think the problems your country is having are the same
as those of mine.

Wassail,
Grendel Grettisson
From: radzy@ICSI.Berkeley.EDU (T. O. Radzykewycz)
Newsgroups: alt.pagan
Subject: Re: Subscriptions
Date: 27 Jan 93 18:12:11 GMT
Organization: International Computer Science Institute, Berkeley, CA, U.S.A.


Here's a list of names and addresses of some periodicals.  Sorry
I don't have subscription rates and other information available,
and I haven't actually checked these addresses, but if you're
interested, you can send them mail.  All addresses are USA unless
otherwise indicated.


      Pagans for Peace
      P.O. Box 2205
      Clearbrook, British Columbia
      V2T 3X8
      Canada







      Raven's Call
      c/o Moon Dragon Publications
      P.O. Box 301831
      Escondido, CA
      92030







      Green Egg
      P.O. Box 1542
      Ukiah, CA
      95482








      Foghorn
      c/o Fran Nowve
      576 Valencia Street
      San Francisco, CA
      94110







      Acorns from the Royal Oak
      c/o Avalon Isle Publications
      P.O. Box 6006
      Athens, GA
      30604







      Motherspirit Network
      P.O. Box 1360
      Exton, PA
      19341








      PIR (Pagans In Recovery)
      c/o Church of Earth Healing
      22 Palmer Street
      Athens, OH
      45701







      Fly By Night
      P.O. Box 12041
      Austin, Texas
      78711








      Red Garters International
      P.O. Box 162046
      Sacramento, CA
      95816








      Mystagogue Magazine
      c/o TCSC
      P.O. Box 15955
      Sacramento, CA
      95852-0955







      Pagana
      POW SIG of American Mensa
      c/o Valerie Voigt
      P.O. Box 9336
      San Jose, CA
      95157






      Tides
      P.O. Box 1445
      Littleton, MA
      01460-9998








      Circle Network News
      P.O. Box 219
      Mt. Horeb, WI
      53572








      Compost Newsletter
      729 5th Ave.
      San Francisco, CA
      94118
Newsgroups: alt.pagan
From: meriel@stein.u.washington.edu (lisa anderson)
Newsgroups: alt.pagan
Subject: Re: Bonding rituals
Date: 22 Jan 1993 20:29:54 GMT
Organization: University of Washington
NNTP-Posting-Host: stein.u.washington.edu

	when my lover and i were having problems a few months ago, we decided
to have a bonding ritual.  when it came right down to it, though, i didn't
feel i could go through with a serious ritual like that being so down and
devoid of good, positive energy.
	we _will_ be doing the ritual in a few weeks; but we worked on the
problems we were having and instead of a ritual to try to fix the problems,
we're going to really be able to have a ritual that celebrates the love and
the existing bonds between us.  
	i would say, you'll enjoy the ritual much more if you're in a space
that is not panicked and anxious, but relaxed and full of love.  there's little
use in bonding with someone when there are problems and the relationship is
having difficulties.  there may be a simple, non-magickal solution to the
problems, and it is likely more communication.  

-meriel

Newsgroups: alt.pagan
From: pciszek@nyx.cs.du.edu (Paul Ciszek)
Subject: Wine
Organization: University of Denver, Dept. of Math & Comp. Sci.
Date: Thu, 28 Jan 93 04:30:17 GMT

Since people keep bringing this up...

Catholics DO get to drink the wine during Communion.  They usually have
approximately two wine servers to each bread server, as it is a slower
process, and some people just go back to their seats and don't bother
with the wine.

And they sometimes have some really nice sweet reds... when I inquired,
I found that that particular vintage was not available through the
usual channels.


Paul Ciszek                      No nation was ever drunk when wine
                                 was cheap.
pciszek@nyx.cs.du.edu                            --Thomas Jefferson
Newsgroups: alt.pagan
From: mist@lynx.dac.northeastern.edu (Paul Timmins)
Subject: Re: boston area alt.paganers????
Organization: Northeastern University, Boston, MA. 02115, USA
Date: Mon, 25 Jan 1993 16:07:02 GMT

  Hrm, I'm up for it, despite the fact that I've been awfully quite on
alt.pagan.. theres quite a lot of boston area pagans, that I know of.
Hell, ever hear of NERO? Its a boston/newengland based role playing
game <live action type thingy>, a good half of 'em/us are. Tra la la,
I'm too tired to post coherently
From: radzy%sradzy@jack.sns.com (T.O. Radzykewycz)
Newsgroups: alt.pagan
Subject: Re: wearing pagan/pentacle jewelry
Date: 22 Jan 93 17:03:34 GMT
Organization: University of California, at Berkeley
Originator: radzy@icsib62

(I'm having trouble with my new machine.  Posted this a little
while ago, but it doesn't seem to have come across, so I'm re-posting
from the other machine.  Apologies.)

jack@dcs.glasgow.ac.uk (Jack Campin) writes:
>> James Webb's "The Occult Establishment" describes how
>> the Nazis got to use the symbol: it occurs in both orientations in Indian
>> iconography with no general distinction in meaning.

pharvey@quack.sac.ca.us (Paul Harvey) writes:
> This is not graffiti, it is religious iconography. There most certainly
> is meaning.

Jack didn't say there wasn't meaning.  He said there wasn't a distinction
between the meaning of a sunwise and a widdershins version.

Bear Blessings!

		-- radzy

------------------------------------------------------------
	T. O. Radzykewycz		|  An it harm none,
	The Incredible Radical Cabbage	|  do as ye will.
					|
	radzy%sradzy@jack.sns.com       |
------------------------------------------------------------
Tribal Mother was old, and lay ill on a bed of moss and
fern.   Her hair was long and grey.   Her face was very
wrinkled.    Tamura'nun-pa thought:   How beautiful you
are, Mother, so old and wise.
From: traite@fellini.harvard.edu (Shirley Traite)
Newsgroups: alt.pagan
Subject: Re: boston area alt.paganers????
Date: 21 Jan 93 14:40:56 GMT
Distribution: ne
Organization: Harvard University, Statistical & Data Analysis Center

In article <llrktlINNm3s@news.bbn.com> dhardin@bbn.com (Dawn Hardin) writes:
>In article <1993Jan20.174755.8847@e2big.mko.dec.com> man@labrea.zko.dec.com (Richard Man) writes:
>
>Hey, this makes you the third Boston area alt.paganer with a two year
>old!  (Actually, mine is 1 1/2, but close enough.)

Well, Dawn I guess I must be one of those three!

  Now I'm really looking 
>forward to a get together.  (Do I hear other readers saying "oh no, 
>anything but three two year olds.")
>             ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
They don't call it the terrible two's for nothing ... :)

>Dawn
>-- 
 I'll be glad to offer my house in Waltham for a get together. 
 Shirley
___
Shirley Traite (traite@sdac.harvard.edu) |I only speak for myself.
Statistical Programmer                   |
SDAC/Biostatistics Dept.                 |
Harvard Sch. of Public Health            |

<> IT IS A VIRTUE TO HAVE AN OPEN AND INQUISITIVE MIND. <>


Newsgroups: alt.pagan
From: pierson@kukri.mps.mlo.dec.com (dan pierson)
Subject: Re: "Winds' Four Quarters"
Organization: Digital Equipment Corporation
Date: Mon, 25 Jan 1993 22:05:02 GMT

Well, I like the song and suspect that the chorus would work pretty
well in an invocation, but...

  - It would be an invocation of the Quadruple Goddess that Misty
    invented for her fantasy world, not the Triple Goddess many people
    worship today.  Of course that could be a prefectly legitimate
    goddess form to worship in this world too, there just wouldn't be
    as much behind it.  

  - The rest of the song is clearly Tamara's invocation of her goddess
    for healing and vengence at the start of Oathbound (the song
    appears along with others in the back one of the series).

                                   Blessings,
                                           dan
--
Dan L. Pierson          Digital Equipment Corporation
pierson@crl.dec.com     Massively Parallel Systems Group
From: altheimm@nextnet.csus.edu (Murray Altheim)
Newsgroups: alt.pagan
Subject: Re: Origins of ambergris (Re: Whale Puke)
Date: 27 Jan 93 00:40:16 GMT
Organization: California State University Sacramento

In article <lmb9tjINNajq@news.bbn.com> dhardin@bbn.com (Dawn Hardin) writes:
>In article <1413@abb-sc.abb-sc.COM> ksm@abb-sc.abb-sc.com (Ashley) writes:
>>
>>After considerable 
>>reading I am wondering if the substance is vomited or passed through the anus 
>>as it is believed to be created in the large intestine. 
>
>The people who thought that the "Space" thread didn't belong in
>alt.pagan must be beside themselves with joy over this charming nugget.
                                                        ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

>Dawn 
 
No pun intended, right?

Murray

-- 
Murray M. Altheim      "Ils ont l'orteil de Bouc, & d'un Chevreil l'oreille,
Instructional Consultant    La corne d'un Chamois, & la face vermeille
CSU, Sacramento          Comme un rouge Croissant: & dancent toute nuict
altheimm@csus.edu       Dedans un carrefour, ou pres d'une eau qui bruict."
Newsgroups: alt.pagan
From: pharvey@quack.sac.ca.us (Paul Harvey)
Subject: VENUS
Organization: The Duck Pond public unix: +1 408 249 9630, log in as 'guest'.
Date: 23 Jan 1993 23:44:30 UTC

Everyone has seen Venus on the western horizon just after sunset now,
third brightest heavenly object? Watch as the moon passes by.

----
word-a right up-a, painted across the sky
black man and fair skins, we're going for a swim
Eddie Murphy sing-a some chant-a:
I_was, I_was, a king
look at me now
listen to every voice and sing, sing to the heavens
sing in harmony, sing please, Shaba:
Eddie Murphy say wise up rise up
Shaba Rank him say wise up rise up
each one teach us not to kill us
stop all your fighting stop all you fuss
raise up your conscious you must you must
wise up rise up one nation rise up
- parts of Eddie Murphy/Shaba Ranks collaboration on "I was a King"
	I_was, I_am and I_will_be.
Newsgroups: alt.pagan
From: rks@cscns.com (Gisle J. Benediktsson)
Subject: Re: Fun with Fundies (the addresses)
Organization: Community_News_Service
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1 PL8]
Date: Sun, 24 Jan 1993 01:13:50 GMT

Ashley (ksm@abb-sc.abb-sc.com) wrote:

: one, so I don't know if he's broadcasting something. Might try a quick cruise 
: through the christian cable channels though. Even if you don't find Popoff, you 
: might find a target you'd like even more. Maybe Wildmon? I think he's the old 
: bearded guy in a fedora who sits in a chair and rambles his depraved liturgy 
: of intollerence on some UHF channel out here. Here's one I heard him spew out 
: on the air once, as close as I can remember....

That is Gene Scott who broadcasts out of SoCal somewhere. Wildmon would
unlikely be on TV since he promotes the idea that TV is a tool of 
Satan.



: 	"Of course I'm pro-choice! I want you to have a choice! I want you to 
: have the choice to do it or not, between heaven and hell, cause if you choose 
: to kill that baby I don't want you where I'm going to be in the afterlife!!"

: 	I'd love to see his face smeared across the front page attached to some 
: hideous baby selling scandal or something. So THAT'S why he wants all those 
: unwanted children born....

Don't forget to write to Focus on the (dysfunctional) Family in Colorado
Springs! That organization practically owns this city!

//gisle


Newsgroups: alt.pagan