HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: burdickd@silver.ucs.indiana.edu (Dakin Burdick)
Subject: Re: Model Mugging (long)
Organization: Indiana University
Date: Fri, 11 Sep 1992 13:13:44 GMT

Andy V. seems to agree with Bobby Knight's statement that sometimes
women should just "lay back and enjoy it", rape that is.  While its
true that women will often be unable to defeat a skilled, trained 
attacker who is determined to rape them, but not all rapists are like
this.  Some are just ordinary guys who want to have sex with somebody
and decide to force somebody to do it.  Against these guys, a good
swift kick in the groin or shins may be enough to discourage them
or to allow the woman to escape.  Likewise, I, as a martial artist
with twelve years of experience, may not be able to defeat a younger,
stronger man (or men), but I hope I at least give a good accounting
of myself.  I'm not all that afraid of death; I'm much more afraid
of pain.  Since an attacker is dishing out pain, I'll dish out some
right back.  You can kill me, but I'm taking one of your nuts with
me.  This resistance will, hopefully, make the attacker easier
to identify.

Lastly, how about a little reality injected in this story?  Not
all attackers are 250 pound weightlifters with a black belt in three
martial arts.  One of my friends was raped; here's the story:

The guy who raped her had done so before.  His M.O. was to rape the
women and then strangle them.  He had already killed 3 women.  He
raped my friend, who was very skinny and weak, and who had no training
in the martial arts (and still doesn't for that matter).  Through-out
the episode she kept asking the guy, "Why are you doing this?  I'm
a human being too; I'm a person; I have feelings."  She says this
made him hesitate long enough for help to arrive, and she credits it
with her survival.  He was going to strangle her too.  By the way,
just for the record, the rapist was a happily-married middle class
man with two kids.  His wife had suspected something when her dear
hubbie came home with some blood on his clothes, but had not said
anything.

Pretty scary stuff, huh?

Dakin
burdickd@silver.ucs.indiana.edu
From: stark@dwovax.enet.dec.com (Todd I. Stark)
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
Subject: Leg Kicks (was Re: Boxing and Kicks)
Summary: Some thoughts on leg kicks, their power and their risk.
Date: 8 Sep 92 22:45:52 GMT
Organization: Digital Equipment Corporation


fcrary@ucsu.Colorado.EDU (Frank Crary) writes...
>In article <1992Sep8.124548.13558@sei.cmu.edu> psc@sei.cmu.edu (Peter Capell) 
>>...and suddenly I understood the profundity of
>>the low-line kick.  It is fundametnally unstoppable.
> 
>Whenever I see phrases like "fundamentally unstoppable" I start to
>have doubts. If there were one single technique that was clearly
>superior to all others, no one would teach anything else.

Some thoughts on leg kicks ...

I don't think I agree that no one would teach anything else, and I do think 
such a technique is superior to virtually all others in some respects.  If 
Peter has similar experience with this technique to mine, then what he may 
have meant was that it is a technique that people in general don't see coming 
and get hit with frequently and is very difficult to counter.  It is the kind
of thing that becomes a 'spoiler' when it is permitted because it can make so
many other tactics relatively obsolete.   Like the controversy a while back
in point karate about whether groin kicks should be allowed, one of the major
arguments for the opposition saying that they should not because groin kicks
so effectively discourage high kicks, because that's the most common time to
get caught with a groin kick.   Leg kicks have a similar effect, only more so.

Not that it neccessarily wins every fight (although it is a factor in a great 
many) and certainly not that it is the ultimate technique in other respects, 
or the only one you'd need to learn to be a competent fighter.  It is a 
dangerous thing to apply in regular competition, and still needs usually to be 
followed up even when it lands effectively.  And even though we might not 
intend the knee, or even need to hit the knee itself to use the technique 
effectively, it often lands there and can cause permanent damage.  Making it 
far from optimal for competitive purposes, though certainly worthwhile to 
train at for general fighting skill.

You can practice leg kicks with control and not have much exceptional risk,
but mostly only in otherwise controlled sparring.  Bouts are another matter.   
For bouts, they are often not desireable.  I wouldn't want my young sons, for 
example, getting kicked in the leg in a competition and end up with knee 
surgery.  But I would sure want them to have some controlled exposure to them
and be able to use and defend against them if they wanted and needed to be 
competent fighters.  

							kind regards,
								todd
From: achou@plasma.icsl.ucla.edu (Albert Chou)
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
Subject: Re: Boxing and Kicks
Date: 9 Sep 92 18:10:30 GMT
Organization: University of California at Los Angeles, EE Dept.

In article <1992Sep8.162941.27669@ucsu.Colorado.EDU> fcrary@ucsu.Colorado.EDU (Frank Crary) writes:
>By the way, alot of "real" martial arts (most of the internal ones
>I know of) don't use kicks much at all. Those they do use, tend to
>be low and cover only a short distance. This gives up alot of the
>power of other types of kicking, in exchange for better control.

Hsing yi kicks are supposed to have a heaviness like walking, so that they're
powerful and even if you manage to catch them, you'll go down to the ground
with them if you actually decide to hold on.  Hsing yi kicks also stay below
the waist for the most part -- that is, kicking above the waist isn't
_emphasized_, though it can be done.

Al
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
From: osan@cbnewsb.cb.att.com (Mr. X)
Subject: Re: Model Mugging (long)
Organization: Twilight Zone
Date: Mon, 14 Sep 1992 18:15:18 GMT

In article <1992Sep11.151739.1428@PA.dec.com> stark@dwovax.enet.dec.com (Todd I. Stark) writes:
>
>
>The first reason, that they may be ambushed, and taken to the ground
>by surprise, was mentioned.  

	GOOD POINT!  This immeditaely raised a question in my twisted little
	mind:  Does MM teach the student HOW TO FALL?  If a mugger jumps out
	of nowhere, grabs tha victim, picks them up and slams them into the
	ground with great force, will an MM graduate know what to do so that
	they do not wind up as road pizza?  This could very well be central
	to the question of whether or not they escape intact or even alive.
	And learning to do good breakfalls takes time and a lot of practice.
	Shoot, I've been doing them for 21 years and I STILL suck at it :(.

	
>If it comes down to a knock down drag out, and
>the aggressor is very persistent, and not taken by surprise by the counter
>attack, the woman may have to resort to either moving in and out of range
>with harrassing tactics until help comes or the attacker loses interest

	Uh, please excuse me, but I'm not sure this discussion has not just 
	stepped one foot into the Twilight Zone.  Or perhaps it is only your 
	choice of words.  First off there is probably not going to be any 
	time or opportunity for this in/out stuff.  The rapist is gonna be 
	right on your ass from the get-go.  He wants to HURT you and will be on
	your ass like white on rice.  You start pulling this "I'm a liberated 
	woman ain't goan take this male chauvinist pig shit from you" and 
	you'll likely become a new murder statistic.  If you are
	going to play the game then you must do it right which basically means
	you have to learn how to circumnavigate the attack and find holes.
	Holes to escape through and/or destroy your opponents ability to 
	further prosecute his attack.


	-Andy V.
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
From: nigel@ietech.demon.co.uk ("Nigel G. Backhurst")
Subject: Attitudes) 
Distribution: world
Organization: IE Technical Services Holland
Date: Thu, 10 Sep 1992 11:37:30 +0000


In article <1992Sep9.234238.18300@psych.psy.uq.oz.au> jonathan@psych.psy.uq.oz.au writes:

>
>Nigel Backhurst (nigel@ietech.demon.co.uk) writes:
>|>  What is needed is
>|> concentration, the correct sound, and above all timing.  If you can
>|> `freeze' somebody at the correct point in thier stride, their momentum
>|> at that moment will unbalance them and they will fall.
>
>Yes, yes!  I've looked into this too.  It's nowhere near so much of an 'inner'
>thing as I had originally thought.  When the kiai coincides with _both_ the
>correct point in your opponents shifting of their balance _and_ a split-second
>before they finish an inward breath, the hip flexor muscles will not work
>either.  This apparently has something to do with the inward breath not
>being 'psychologically' completed - they cannot breath out, and the resulting
>momentary pause freezes stance stabilizing muscles so the person may fall
>down, depending on their momentum at that point.
>

That explanation fits in very closely with my own experience of
using kiai.  The only times when it has really been effective,
that is Uke has fallen over, has been during a Shomen Uchi Ken
attack.  The point at which the kiai must be made is mid-point
on the final forward step as the sword is being raised, just
prior to it reaching the high point - at this point they are
just finishing the inward breath.

It also fits in well with my own experience of when it was done
to me.  The two things I can recall were a sense of panic, and
an inability of breath.  Strangely enough I cannot recall hearing
the actual sound of the shout.


Nigel
>
---------------------------------------------------------------------
Nigel Backhurst ( nigel@ietech.demon.co.uk )
c/o 88 Ashburton Road, Hugglescote, Coalville, LE6 2LX, U.K.
p/a IE Technical Services Holland, Deventerstr 150, 7321 CE Apeldoorn
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From: osan@cbnewsb.cb.att.com (Mr. X)
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
Subject: Re: Chi Cultivation
Date: 10 Sep 92 21:49:39 GMT
Organization: Twilight Zone

In article <1992Sep10.065534.3756@ucsu.Colorado.EDU> fcrary@ucsu.Colorado.EDU (Frank Crary) writes:
>In article <1992Sep9.205220.1849@udel.edu> weigand@pecan.cns.udel.edu writes:
>>I'd like some input as to what are some exercises you all do to try to 
>>get 1) your chi energy increased  2) your chi flowing into parts of your
>>body 
>
>It isn't exactly chi gung, but you might try to feel your entire body,
>at the same time (not concentrating on your foot, then shifting
>your attention to your arm, then to... but all parts similtaniously.)

	Funny you mention this.  I discovered this when I was about 3
	years old.  I was an only child and spent lots of time alone,
	so you learn to entertain yourself and also find a lot of
	time for thinking.  I've been doing it ever since.  I also discovered
	another trick that I still have to investigate WRT physiological
	effects.  I relax my entire body and then  "push" the level of
	muscular relaxation further than what is my resting state.  What I
	would love to do is to get hooked up to a bio feedback loop to see
	exactly what is happening to my muscles.  Brain activity might be
	interesting too.  Have any of you folks ever discovered this?  The
	physical sensation is very strange and intense.  I suspect it may
	be similar to the sensation of weightlessness, though this is pure
	speculation.

	I can produce these effects in my entire body, but it is more intense
	in my lower abdomen and my quadriceps.  I can control the level of
	intensity fairly well, but if I go all out I can maintain the state for
	something less than a minute and it begins to fade.

	Another analog for the sensation is that of falling, and a weaker one
	is the feeling you get when your body is pumped full of adrenalin,
	though this is not in reality the case.  I have always been able to 
	dump HUGE amounts of adrenalin into my system at will (indeed I have
	had problems at times keeping the levels down since I surge sometimes
	just at the thought, which I have always found odd.  Any of you have
	this happen?) and can say for certain that this is not happening.
	
	I have never spoken to anyone about this before, but now that Frank
	mentioned something that reminded me of it I figured I'd make mention
	of it.  If any of you folks know what I am talking about or know
	anything about this I'd love to hear about it.

	-Andy V.
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
From: stark@dwovax.enet.dec.com (Todd I. Stark)
Subject: Re: Internal Arts...
Summary: Aiki equates to internal grappling, vs. internal pugilism (sort of)
Organization: Digital Equipment Corporation
Date: 14 SEP 92 15:19:14    


Thanks to Frank and to Michael for going out on a limb to summarize a simple
comparison of these internal arts.  I'd been wondering about that for some
time myself, and such clear explanation are hard to come by.

As for Aikido, I'll add my own simplistic interpretation and compare it to
'internal wrestling,' as opposed to 'internal pugilism' found in Tai Chi,
BaGua, and Hsing Yi.   Of course, it is practiced differently enough in 
different places as to render this simplification meaningless or inaccurate,
but I think it might shed some light on the strategic differences between
Aiki and the Chinese internal pugilist arts (or at least earn me some
interesting feedback) :-).

							kind regards,

							todd
From: westreic@oc.nps.navy.mil (Eric Westreich)
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
Subject: MAIL FOR BILL BAUGH
Date: 9 Sep 92 22:50:35 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: Naval Postgraduate School, Monterey CA
Originator: westreic@oc.nps.navy.mil


MY MAIL SYSTEM CLAIMS THAT MAIL TO YOU IS BOUNCING. PLEASE LET
ME KNOW IF MAIL IS GETTING THROUGH.

Bill,

    Thank you for your interest in the 1992 MONTEREY JKD SEMINAR.


    This seminar is for any level in any style. In fact there is usually a good 
cross section of martial artists from many styles there...my initial background 
was in Shotokan Karate and Hakko-Ryu Jujutsu.

    This seminar is DEFINATELY hands on...unless you are in real good shape, you will probably be a tired by the end of the day. Sifu Dill usually teaches in 50 
minute blocks with 10 minute breaks in between. He will demonstrate one 
technique four or five times, explaining how the technique is done. Then he will walk around while everyone pairs off and performs the technique, correcting 
people as he goes. Then he will demonstrate either a new technique or an 
advanced or more complicated version of the original technique. One or two 
fifety minute blocks is used for a single subject...kicking, punching, trapping,
grappling, footwork, sensitivity drills, iron palm techniques.... You can 
expect an hour break for lunch in the middle. 

    The seminar will end sometime between 4 & 5 PM depending on how much stamina
the participants have.

    You sign up by sending me your name, address phone number via email...and I 
will send you a registration form. Or by sending your name, address, phone number, and age along with $50 directly to :

    Eric Westreich
    127 Leiding Circle
    Monterey, CA 93940

 When you send in your $50, I will send you maps and hotel information. Please do this ASAP as I need 20 people to pre-register this month or the seminar will 
be cancelled and all the money will be returned.

    If you have more questions about the Seminar or SDS Jeet Kune Do, you can 
call me at (408) 372-1821 home or (408) 646-2803 work. You can also find out
more information on SDS Jeet Kune Do directly from Gary Dill at:

    Sifu Gary Dill
    The Jeet Kune Do Association
    P.O. Box 3396
    Bartlesville, OK 74006
    (918) 335-0003

-Eric
 westreic@oc.nps.navy.mil

S.P. Fifteen people signed up so far...five to go!
From: cholette@JSP.UMontreal.CA (Cholette Martin)
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
Subject: *********************** Help with flexibility ****************
Date: 5 Sep 92 04:13:38 GMT
Organization: Universite de Montreal


 Hello, I have been training in the martial arts ( Karate ) for several years
 now and I still have a problem with my flexibility. When I train several
 times in a week, my muscles become stiff and sore due to overstretching I
 guess. I stretch every time I train , before training. I would like to know
 what is the best way to stretch to attain maximum flexibility? Is it 
 every day, every second day?  Do I pull hard for a short while or do I
 pull soft for a long time ? When my muscles hurt, do I stretch them or do
 I wait for several days for the pain to dissappear before I stretch again?
 This is frustrating, after so many years, my muscles still stiffen after
 heavy stretching. I am 22 years old if this is a factor in it.

 I would appreciate any help with this problem, also can you point out
 the right professional to see for this ie: M.D. or P.T. or O.T. ???

 Martin Cholete
 cholette@jsp.umontreal.ca
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
From: Paul.Elkins@bbs.oit.unc.edu (Paul Elkins)
Subject: Re: Attitudes (wasRe- Silent or
Organization: Extended Bulletin Board Service
Date: Mon, 7 Sep 1992 12:43:50 GMT

In article <9209050002.AA10951@ucbvax.Berkeley.EDU> david_yeh@MACMAIL.MED.NYU.EDU ("David Yeh") writes:
>
>                      Attitudes (wasRe: Silent or vocal sparring?)
>carbon@bnrmtl.bnr.ca (Peter Carbon) writes:
>
>>So what do you people think? Is it better to fight silently, thereby
>>conserving energy, or to use kiais to perhaps disconcert your opponent
>>and add more emphasis to a strike?
>
>But what I especially remember, though, was when we were sparring, I didn't
>make the Hoo! Ha! Kia! sounds.  HOWEVER, every time I'd tag an opponent, I'd
>whisper out "boom!" "wham!" "pow!"  or something.  It had a definite

A classmate of mine that I greatly respected made similar noises when
sparring.  At first I though it was funny, so I mentioned it to him.  He
said he did it primarily to keep breathing; to counteract the tendency to
HOLD his breath while striking.  I had the same tendency so I adopted the
same strategy.  (Never forget breathe Danielson).

I kiai occasionally when SPARRING;
	 to startle or intimidate an opponent, 
	 to strengthen my spirit or resolve
	 to maximize power (and celebrate) a finishing technique.

Although I do NOT kiai with every technique I can understand the theory as
it relates to my own "rules".

	a)  IF finishing technique THEN Kiai

			AND

        b)  (as is commonly heard)  One punch, one life.

        
	THEREFORE Kiai with every technique.

I think where it begins to break down is that sparring/training situations
are not "life and death" (TM) situations.  Sparring continues much longer
than a real fight might, because sparring is training.  (You don't get
in much training time if after 10 seconds one partner is dead.)

		- Monta



--
   The opinions expressed are not necessarily those of the University of
     North Carolina at Chapel Hill, the Campus Office for Information
        Technology, or the Experimental Bulletin Board Service.
           internet:  bbs.oit.unc.edu or 152.2.22.80
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
From: dude@losers.hacktic.nl
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
Subject: Re: Kiai again   (was Re: Attitudes)
Date: 12 Sep 92 01:18:56 GMT
Organisation: black mail inc.

In article  <1992Sep9.234238.18300@psych.psy.uq.oz.au>, 
Jonathan Dwyer writes:

 J> Yes, yes!  I've looked into this too.  It's nowhere near so much of an 'inner'
 J> thing as I had originally thought.  When the kiai coincides with _both_ the
 J> correct point in your opponents shifting of their balance _and_ a split-second
 J> before they finish an inward breath, the hip flexor muscles will not work
 J> either.  This apparently has something to do with the inward breath not
 J> being 'psychologically' completed - they cannot breath out, and the resulting
 J> momentary pause freezes stance stabilizing muscles so the person may fall
 J> down, depending on their momentum at that point.

 A lot of the so-called ki-stuff is just physics. In one of his books, Dr. 
 Hatsumi (i think) describes stunts as breaking stones on your chest with a
 sledgehammer, paralyzing frogs, and resisting a staff with one finger.
 
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
From: weigand@pecan.cns.udel.edu (Steve Weigand)
Subject: Chi Cultivation
Reply-To: weigand@pecan.cns.udel.edu
Organization: University of Delaware, Newark
Date: Wed, 9 Sep 1992 20:52:20 GMT

I've just started a form of kung fu (Mi Tsung Lo Han) which incorporates 
many internal aspects of martial arts. I, however, have always trained
external martial arts. Now I'm starting to understand the concept of Chi
a little better and feel it would be in my best interest to see if I could
cultivate it more. I've been doing a few chi-kung exercises regularily, and
I'd like some input as to what are some exercises you all do to try to 
get 1) your chi energy increased  2) your chi flowing into parts of your
body   and 3) your chi back to the center point (dan tien). 


Any input is appreciated!
 - Steve Weigand
 (weigand@ee.udel.edu)
From: garry@alice.att.com (garry hodgson)
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
Subject: Re: Boxing and Kicks
Date: 10 Sep 92 14:58:51 GMT
Article-I.D.: alice.23649
Reply-To: garry@alice.UUCP ()
Organization: AT&T, Bell Labs

In article <1992Sep9.001222.22906@access.digex.com> cherry@access.digex.com (Cherry Poptart) writes:


	2. If you did kick up high at a boxer, what
	would happen if he or she decided to box your 
	foot?  They seem to put a lot o power into some
	of their shots, and the foot is actually pretty 
	slow

Not necessarily.  A roundhouse kick off the lead leg can be wickedly
fast.  Used like a jab, it is very effective, as it can be used to
keep some distance between you.  It lacks some of the power of a full blown
roundhouse, but I have knocked people out with it.

I used to use this a lot, and trained incessantly on it
with ankle weights, bag work, etc.  I ended up with kicks that
were about as fast as most punches.  This is a great defensive tool,
as anyone attacking has to get past that leg somehow.  If they did, my
hands were waiting...

	(to be technical, on a straight kick it 
	pretty much has to come to a halt to reverse 
	direction, maybe not so for a roundhouse though).

If you were kicking to the head, you would probably be using
a roundhouse or reverse crescent kick.  The former is a snapping kick,
and thus does reverse direction.  The latter, kind of an outward
swing of the leg, goes through the target.

	I would have to 
	think that sticking your foot in a boxers face 
	would be like saying "here, hit this". 

It is certainly the case that you can get *nasty* bruises on your
feet from blocks.  But a kick is not normally hanging around long enough
to be much of a target.  At least, it shouldn't be.

-- 
Garry Hodgson			A slow winter day
AT&T Bell Labs			A night like forever
garry@alice.att.com		Sink like a stone
att!alice!garry			Float like a feather