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Date:         Mon, 23 Nov 1992 22:35:09 +0100
Reply-To:     Lars Henrik Mathiesen <thorinn@DIKU.DK>
From:         Lars Henrik Mathiesen <thorinn@DIKU.DK>
Subject:      Again, the _real_ Youngstown rules
              23 Nov 1992 13:35:32 EST <9211231839.AA18057@odin.diku.dk>

Didn't anybody read my little essay on Youngstown variants the other
month? Or didn't it get out? Anyway, I'll append it here, after a
couple of comments on the current discussion.

Suez: There certainly are Youngstown variants where Egypt is a
  province with a waterway, just like Kiel and Constantinoble;
  however, fleets can pass these waterways *without* entering the
  containing province. One of them (Youngstown X) uses the same board
  as the Judge variant, basically, but does not have the India power,
  and allows armies to crawl from Vladivostok to Japan. Perhaps it is
  this variant that Mark knows from British postal play.

  Jordan/south coast and Jordan/west coast are aliases on the Judge
  --- just as it usually has a lot of different names for each
  province --- but because of the way the map file works, they have to
  be listed as if they are separate coasts.

Off-board boxes: To understand the setup here we have to go back to
  the oldest versions, I think: the *only* thing a fleet could do from
  OBB A (NAtl) was to move to NPac (or support an action there). The
  OBBs were a way to cross the Western hemisphere, or South Africa, in
  two moves --- presumably, units in those ``uncharted lands'' were
  just assumed to pass without meeting. If we assume that armies would
  have to follow the coast, it makes a certain sense that in two moves
  it is possible to get from a coastal province (Morocco or East
  Africa) to the inland province on the other side (Sudan or Sahara),
  but not from inland to inland. (Fezzan is not infinite, but just
  hard to get around, so to speak.)

  Also, in the NAVB version of the 72 center board, all the OBBs that
  can go to SAtl (Som, WInd, Tim, SPac) are neighbours. This is just
  as non-planar as the African situation, so I don't think it is an
  oversight.

  But I agree that in the Judge version, with its reduced connectivity
  south of Asia, the African connections seem odd. Since a move via
  OBBs takes three turns on the Judge, it might be reasonable to
  connect the Sahara/Sudan OBBs --- or going the other way, to remove
  those OBBs altogether.

Lars Mathiesen (U of Copenhagen CS Dep) <thorinn@diku.dk> (Humour NOT marked)

>From thorinn Sun Oct  4 03:58:10 1992 MET
To: Discussion Group for the Game Diplomacy <DIPL-L@MITVMA.BITNET>
CC: jdr@u.washington.edu
Subject: The _real_ Youngstown rules

I happen to have a copy of the NAVB's Tenth Anniversary Edition of the
Youngstown Variant. This edition describes twelve Youngstown versions,
so I thought that I'd try to find out which one the Judge uses.

It turns out that the only versions with a similar map and ten Great
Powers are Youngtown II, IV and VI. They mainly differ in the rules
for Off-Board Boxes (surprise!), but VI has one small map change.

Most of the details are the same as on the Judge, e.g., the rules for
Suez, but there are a number of differences in the map (I'll get to
the OBB rules later):
  Important ones (make a difference to the game):
    - The victory condition is 37 units on the board, because there
      really are 72 supply centers, not 71 as info.youngstown states.
    - Tokyo does not border on the Sea of Japan; Hirosaki borders on
      the North Pacific instead. (In variant VI, a small impassable
      area blocks both possibilities; the Sea of Japan still borders
      on the North Pacific north of Hokkaido.)
    - Kyoto does not border on Osaka; Fuji borders on Honshu instead.
    - Montenegro does not border on Budapest; Trieste borders on
      Serbia instead.
  Inaccuracies in youngstown.ps:
    - The province of the Philippines should include the lower islands
      and the water in between, so that the Philippines border on the
      Celebes Sea, and the South China Sea does not border on the
      South Pacific. (map.youngstown has this right.)
    - The canal through Kiel leads to the Baltic Sea, not Denmark.
  Nits (could confuse players who are used to the NAVB version):
    - NAVB has Andaman Sea where the Judge has Andamon Sea
    - NAVB has Brunei where the Judge has Brunie
    - NAVB has Cluj where the Judge has Klug
    - NAVB has Hirosaki where the Judge just has Hir
    - NAVB has Honshu where the Judge just has Hon
    - NAVB has Johore where the Judge has Joharra
    - NAVB has Karafuto where the Judge just has Kar
    - NAVB has Mogadiscio where the Judge has Magudisco
    - NAVB has Montenegro where the Judge has Monte Negro
    - NAVB has Pentapolis where the Judge has Pentopolis
    - NAVB has Rajasthan where the Judge has Rajastan
    - NAVB has Sakhalin where the Judge just has Sak
    - NAVB has Vietnam where the Judge has Viet Nam

The big difference is the OBB rules. The original idea was that a
fleet could move from, say, the North Pacific to the OBB in the same
area, and then _directly_ to the North Atlantic. The boxes are set up
so that if Xxx->Xxx/OBB->Yyy is possible, so is Yyy->Yyy/OBB->Xxx, but
each route is strictly one way: as far as I can see, the NAVB variants
do not allow a unit in Xxx/OBB to move to, or support actions in, Xxx.
(Are there any postal Youngstown players out there who can affirm this?)

In Youngstown II, only this basic type of movement is allowed in the
OBBs, except for ``reverse'' support into an OBB from its destination.
(E.g., F Yyy S F Xxx->Xxx/OBB.)

In Youngstown IV and VI, units can move ``in reverse'' to an OBB as
well --- useful (besides tactics) because some OBBs have several
destinations; and in IV, it is also possible to move between OBBs,
much like the Judge does it, but without sea<->land movement.

In summary, to make the Judge run Youngstown IV, the following changes
should be made:
      - No movement from an OBB to its containing province (I think).
      - No movement between OBBs in the Pacific and West Africa, or
	between those in the Atlantic and East Africa.
      - If an OBB in the Pacific now borders on one in the Atlantic,
	direct movement from the Pacific OBB to the on-board area in
	the Atlantic, and vice versa, should be added, and the same
	for East and West Africa.

All this is not to say that I think that the Judge variant should be
changed; people are used to it, and it would not surprise me if it
turned out to be the Youngstown variant with the largest number of
recorded games. But now we know where we stand in relation to the
older registered variants.

Lars Mathiesen (U of Copenhagen CS Dep) <thorinn@diku.dk> (Humour NOT marked)
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU