HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: dyer@spdcc.com (Steve Dyer)
Newsgroups: sci.med
Subject: Re: Prevalence of Hyperobesity
Date: 15 Sep 92 14:32:42 GMT
Article-I.D.: spdcc.1992Sep15.143242.11552
Organization: S.P. Dyer Computer Consulting, Cambridge MA

In article <1992Sep15.123252.15858@omen.UUCP> caf@omen.UUCP (Chuck Forsberg WA7KGX) writes:
>>>I've mentioned a number of studies in Adiposity 101 which show
>>>the obese generally eat the same or less than normals.
>>
>>So tell us, Chuck: what do you eat in a day?  Have you ever made a food
>>diary?  You don't really expect me to believe you when you say that you
>>eat no more than a 150 lb. man.  If you did, you'd lose weight, or in
>>your words, "starve" <snort>, because it costs energy to carry all that
>>weight around.
>
>Steve, what's come over you?  You usually make informative postings.  Why then
>this snively personal attack which is completely devoid of useful information,
>not to mention unprofessional?

Why do you consider this a personal attack?  I'll show you mine if
you show me yours.  You're making an really amazingly outrageous
assertion which defies thermodynamics.  I'm asking you to back it
up with your own daily experience.  Or are you an exception to "the
obese" in that you actually eat more?

>>Earlier, you have quoted studies that obese eat no more _per pound of body
>>mass_, which is a really quite different.
>        In distinction to the commonly accepted stereotype,
>        research shows that the obese do not eat more per pound
>        than their lean counterparts.
>I wrote it that way on the fear that otherwise some idiot would start
>comparing an infant's energy input with an adult's, or accuse me of
>doing the same.  That sentence does not specify lean mass or total mass.

Translation: I stated this in a way to be optimally meaningless.

>Apparently Steve never bothered to read the papers cited in Adiposity
>101, or he would have known that the comparisons were not weighted by
>body mass.

Chuck, the bigger someone is, the more calories they need to stay heavy.
Very obese people also reduce their activity, but unless they're immobile
and bedridden, this still holds true.

>Just because diet evangelists tweek their data to suppress
>a linkage between diet cycling and adverse health effects doesn't mean
>everyone tweeks their data.

I don't know what this statement has to do with anything.

>>weight, as opposed to those lucky ones who have reached their "setpoint",
>>aren't exactly extracting this extra body mass out of thin air; presumably,
>>they're eating even more.
>What's being plucked out of thin air is Steve's presumption.
>Steve offers no studies to back up his presumption.

Chuck, you don't need studies to understand that if a sedentary 300# man
has a daily caloric requirement of 3500 kcal to maintain his weight (a not
at all atypical value) and a similarly active 150# man requires 2500
calories, the 300# man is going to have to eat more than the 150# man
or he'll lose weight (horrors!).

-- 
Steve Dyer
dyer@ursa-major.spdcc.com aka {ima,harvard,rayssd,linus,m2c}!spdcc!dyer
From: cam@castle.ed.ac.uk (Chris Malcolm)
Newsgroups: sci.med
Subject: Re: Earplugs
Date: 10 Sep 92 18:27:23 GMT
Organization: Edinburgh University

In article <PHR.92Sep9190712@soda.berkeley.edu> phr@soda.berkeley.edu (Paul Rubin) writes:

>I advise against using earplugs.  I have used them a few times and
>gotten ear infections and tinnitus as a result of using them.

I advise for using earplugs. I've used them regularly for 30 years,
have never had the slightest problem with infections, and have
prevented deafness and tinnitus by using them.

>The doctor I went to for my plug-related
>ear infection said there was a saying in his med school,
>"never put anything in your ear that is smaller than your elbow".
>(I.e. don't put anything in your ears).

I've also been cleaning my ears with sundry bits of hand-crafted wood
and wire for 40 years without problems. The only ear injury I have
ever suffered was when I was five years old and a clumsy elderly
doctor with shaky hands cleaned my ears. I can still feel the little
scar in that earhole. I have a saying "don't let doctors put anything
in your ears".

Aren't personal anecdotes wonderful?
-- 
Chris Malcolm    cam@uk.ac.ed.aifh          +44 (0)31 650 3085
Department of Artificial Intelligence,    Edinburgh University
5 Forrest Hill, Edinburgh, EH1 2QL, UK                DoD #205
From: kja@cbnewsf.cb.att.com (krista.j.anderson)
Newsgroups: sci.med
Subject: Re: "Anti-psychiatry": Cool the flames  ...was: Re: Xanax
Date: 8 Sep 92 16:07:05 GMT
Organization: AT&T

In article <1992Sep5.044656.20572@athena.cs.uga.edu>, mcovingt@athena.cs.uga.edu (Michael A. Covington) writes:
> In article <1992Sep3.091357.29655@newstand.syr.edu> mdkline@rodan.acs.syr.edu (Mark D. Kline) writes:
> >
> >Anxiety and mood disorders afflict women more often than men.
> 
> Is there a solid biological basis for this, or could it be that our culture
> does not train women to cope with adversity?  (Or, conversely, trains
> men to be _too_ stoical?)

Or is it that women are more willing to admit it when they have a
problem (due to not having to prove to themselves that they are
stoical)?
Newsgroups: sci.med
From: wendy@milton.u.washington.edu (Wendy Grant)
Subject: nutrasweet or saccharin?
Organization: University of Washington, Seattle
Date: Thu, 10 Sep 1992 01:13:29 GMT

Am I worrying unnecessarily?

 I am 26 weeks pregnant with my first child. I have always (well for
the last 15 years or so :-)  ) been addicted to diet coke. It really
is for the taste more than anything else since I have been able to
stop them cold turkey when I've had too (with no other source of
caffiene intake). Anyways, my doctor has said that she sees no harm
in some nutrasweet during pregnancy and that a diet coke or 2 a day
is not a problem. I had almost none during the first tri-mester,
but for the last 12 weeks or so, I've gotten into the habit at
stopping at McDonald's and getting a diet coke on the way to work.
But I just heard that the fountain version of d.c. has saccharin (sp?)
and not nutrasweet! It had never occurred to me that it wasn't the
same as what I could buy in the can or bottle.

 Does anyone know if this is true? And if it really is saccharin,
how 'bad' is it that I've been drinking one med. diet coke a day?
I realize I can't do anything about it now (except not drinking
any more of them) but what risk have I exposed my son to? 

 I would very much appreciate any information and/or reassurance.

Thanks in advance.

Wendy Walter           wendy@u.washington.edu
From: dabbott@augean.eleceng.adelaide.edu.AU (Derek Abbott)
Newsgroups: sci.med
Subject: email address for Medical College of Georgia
Date: 15 Sep 92 08:06:45 GMT
Organization: Electrical and Electronic Eng., University of Adelaide


does anyone have the email address for the Medical College of Georgia?


Thanx.
Newsgroups: sci.med
From: dyer@spdcc.com (Steve Dyer)
Subject: Re: Prevalence of Hyperobesity
Organization: S.P. Dyer Computer Consulting, Cambridge MA
Date: Mon, 14 Sep 1992 04:13:20 GMT

In article <1992Sep14.032802.4725@omen.UUCP> caf@omen.UUCP (Chuck Forsberg WA7KGX) writes:
>I've mentioned a number of studies in Adiposity 101 which show
>the obese generally eat the same or less than normals.

So tell us, Chuck: what do you eat in a day?  Have you ever made a food
diary?  You don't really expect me to believe you when you say that you
eat no more than a 150 lb. man.  If you did, you'd lose weight, or in
your words, "starve" <snort>, because it costs energy to carry all that
weight around.

Earlier, you have quoted studies that obese eat no more _per pound of body
mass_, which is a really quite different.  Also, people who are gaining
weight, as opposed to those lucky ones who have reached their "setpoint",
aren't exactly extracting this extra body mass out of thin air; presumably,
they're eating even more.

>macronutrient composition of their diets are no different except
>for a very slight increase in the portion of energy from fat, a
>normal reaction to starvation.  (Obesity: 7% in France, 15% in US)

No, a normal way of gaining weight.  If a 500 kcal excess per day
can cause weight gain of a pound a week, that's 50 lbs. a year.

-- 
Steve Dyer
dyer@ursa-major.spdcc.com aka {ima,harvard,rayssd,linus,m2c}!spdcc!dyer
From: dyer@spdcc.com (Steve Dyer)
Newsgroups: sci.med
Subject: Re: Politics and sci.med (was: unc health care study)
Date: 11 Sep 92 17:46:04 GMT
Article-I.D.: spdcc.1992Sep11.174604.26730
Organization: S.P. Dyer Computer Consulting, Cambridge MA

In article <1992Sep11.153309.15194@cgrg.ohio-state.edu> djh@osc.edu (David Heisterberg) writes:
>In the course of, what, a week?, some of the most intelligent and well-
>reasoned -- or so I thought -- persons in this group have been remotely
>psychoanalyzed and found to be dogmatic, combative, childish, and just
>plain stoopid!  Shows how much I know.

Gad, do you REALLY think David Sternlight is intelligent and well-reasoned?

:-) :-)

-- 
Steve Dyer
dyer@ursa-major.spdcc.com aka {ima,harvard,rayssd,linus,m2c}!spdcc!dyer
From: bhjelle@carina.unm.edu
Newsgroups: sci.med
Subject: Re: Re: What are the symptoms of Epstein-Barr virus?
Date: 9 Sep 92 17:21:51 GMT
Organization: University of New Mexico, Albuquerque

In article <16377@pitt.UUCP> geb@dsl.pitt.edu (gordon e. banks) writes:
>In article <1992Sep4.213129.21580@anasazi.com> john@anasazi.com writes:
>>Keywords: 
>>
>>The EBV test can tell if the infection is current or not. I don't know
>>how, but I have had one and it was composed of several different tests
>>with a set of rules for interpreting them.

There are antibodies, such as heterophile, that are useful
for diagnosing acute infectious mono, and some others that
are present in high titer in patients with EBV-associated
malignancies. One is rarely in a situation in which
the differentiation of these conditions from CFS is
difficult. Other antibody profiles are loosely correlated
with some distant exposure to EBV.

With CFS, any of several antibodies to EBV determinants may
be elevated. Unfortunately, there has been little consistency
in these observations from lab to lab, and similar observations
can be made when looking for antibodies to other ubiquitous
viruses.

>You can get acute and convalescent titres that can tell you that,
>or you can actually culture viruses (not easy).  Most people
>with CFS do not have any such acute and convalenscent titres changes
>that indicate an active infection was present.  They merely have
>high titres to EBV which likely reflect a non-specific hightened
>immune response.  Brian can probably tell you more about this than
>I can.

The proposed EBV etiology for CFS has been abandoned for all
of the above reasons. There is no smoking gun.

Brian
Newsgroups: sci.med
From: geb@dsl.pitt.edu (gordon e. banks)
Newsgroups: sci.med
Subject: Re: Xanax
Date: 11 Sep 92 20:30:33 GMT
Organization: Decision Systems Laboratory, Univ. of Pittsburgh, PA.

In article <1992Sep10.211606.7486@cbnews.cb.att.com> jap@cbnews.cb.att.com (james.a.parker) writes:
>In article <16420@pitt.UUCP> geb@dsl.pitt.edu (gordon e. banks) writes:
>>In science, it is the person making the claims of the cure that
>>is obligated to provide the evidence, not the skeptic.
>
>This is true; however readers should note that it is equally true if the claims
>are that the cure is ineffective as well as effective.
>

In science, the null hypothesis is assumed.  It is up to those who
claim the null hypothesis is false to prove it so.  Because there
are an infinite number of claims that can be made, it can not
be the obligation

-- 
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Gordon Banks  N3JXP      | "Skepticism is the chastity of the intellect, and
geb@cadre.dsl.pitt.edu   |  it is shameful to surrender it too soon." 
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Newsgroups: sci.med
From: rchao@well.sf.ca.us (Robert Chao)
Subject: sweat/skin problem
Organization: Whole Earth 'Lectronic Link
Date: Sun, 13 Sep 1992 03:30:46 GMT


I have the following problem. When I go out sunbathing, I will break
out with a pimply red area on my chest. It will start 2 days after
the sun exposure and fade away by the 5th day or so. It is all over my
chest only and looks very similar to whiteheads from acne.
I told the dermatologist about it and his best guess is that something
is clogged in my sweat glands; when the sweat cannot escape you get
this problem, and he referred to is as miliari pustulosis. He said it
sounds like photodermatitis in some ways but he didn't think that was
what I had.
He did not think it was because my chest is dry, or dirty, but rather
the sweat glands just have something wrong with them.
This has happened even when I don't use any sun lotion, so it isn't that.

So do you think there is anything I can do?
-- 
Robert Chao
Oakland, California
Newsgroups: sci.med
From: russ@wpg.com (Russell Lawrence)
Subject: Re: Rising Medical Costs. 
Organization: WP Group
Date: Sat, 5 Sep 1992 01:16:31 GMT


In article <BtzHwq.31u@wpg.com> russ@wpg.com (Russell Lawrence) writes:
rl> Let's not forget the root problem of malpractice litigation...
rl> namely fraudulent or substandard medical care.

From article <16339@pitt.UUCP>, by km@cs.pitt.edu (Ken Mitchum):
km> This is not really true. As you state yourself, many cases
km> of malpractice are never persued. 

This claim doesn't make much sense to me.  The fact that most victims 
of malpractice never file suit doesn't diminish the rightful 
claims of those who do.   

km> The real cause of
km> malpractice litigation is the failure of the doctor-patient
km> relationship, usually caused by the doctor.

Uh huh.  Like those obstetrical patients in Dayton, Ohio, whose 
labia and clitoral prepuces were excised under general anesthesia 
by Dr. James Burt, the obstetrician who was supposed to be 
delivering their babies, and not practicing what he proudly 
called "love surgery".  As I've pointed out previously, one of 
his early victims filed a malpractice law suit but couldn't find a 
single Ohio obstetrician willing to testify.

km> Nice doctors don't get sued, no matter what they do, while the 
km> ones with brash manners who treat their patients like dirt get 
km> sued no matter how good they are.  Many lawsuits represent the 
km> patient's only way to get back at a person who should have 
km> treated them better.  

Dr. James Burt was rather brash.  And I agree with you that he
should have treated his patients better by asking them, prior
to the surgery, if they wanted to be sexually mutillated.
However, the tragedy of the Burt case was not simply Burt's
wrong-doing, but the implication of our discovery that Burt's
practices were common knowledge among other physicians in the
area, and yet, none of them was willing to admit that 
clitorectomies and such aren't standard operating procedure.  

I'm sure that every single one of those good doctors would be
quick to bitch about rising malpractice insurance rates and the
evils of law courts, yet to the best of my knowledge no lawyer
was ever present when Burt was in the operating room. 

-- 
Russell Lawrence, WP Group, New Orleans (504) 443-5000
russ@wpg.com   uunet!wpg!russ
From: geb@dsl.pitt.edu (gordon e. banks)
Newsgroups: sci.med
Subject: Re: Foreign Med. Graduates in U.S.?
Date: 15 Sep 92 22:57:04 GMT
Organization: Decision Systems Laboratory, Univ. of Pittsburgh, PA.

In article <4463@equinox.unr.edu> jana@unssun.nevada.edu (Jana Dunn) writes:

>My husband's friend is a Nepali citizen who has completed medical 
>studies in Russia.  He is in the process of completing
>a two-year specialization in gastroenterology (sp?), also in Russia.
>He speaks and writes passable English.
>
>He would like to come to work in the U.S., preferably on a permanent
>basis.

Russian training is not recognized in any field of specialty that
I am aware of.  It definitely is not recognized in neurology.
He would have to retrain from the internship level up.  It is
possible that he could get a visa to come to train, provided
he was accepted into a training program first.  His likelihood
of getting a permanent visa is the same as for any other Nepali
citizen, as far as I know.  Physicians are not usually given
any special consideration unless they can talk a congressman
into sponsoring a special bill giving them a visa.  I have seen
that done in exchange for a guarantee to practice in a specific
locale.
He would have to pass the ECFMG before being accepted into any
training program.
-- 
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Gordon Banks  N3JXP      | "Skepticism is the chastity of the intellect, and
geb@cadre.dsl.pitt.edu   |  it is shameful to surrender it too soon." 
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Newsgroups: sci.med
From: dyer@spdcc.com (Steve Dyer)
Subject: Re: Information on drug needed: Atwon
Organization: S.P. Dyer Computer Consulting, Cambridge MA
Distribution: usa
Date: Wed, 9 Sep 1992 04:44:44 GMT

In article <18jq0aINNm1g@darkstar.UCSC.EDU> larrabee@cse.ucsc.edu (Tracy Larrabee) writes:
>I would very much like to know what I can about the drug Atwon.  The 
>implication is that it is either some sort of tranquilizer or a blood
>pressure medicine.  My mother (who is a rotten question asker when it
>comes to doctors) and I thank you for any information.

I never heard of a drug called "Atwon".  Perhaps she means "Ativan",
a benzodiazepine sedative.  It's more or less like any other benzodiazepine
sedative like Valium or Xanax; it has a half-life in the middle of the
pack--it's not likely to accumulate, and it is also rather on the potent
side, meaning that it requires a lower dose in milligrams (fractions of
same, sometimes) than some other benzodiazepines.  In other regards,
it's not very exceptional when given orally.

-- 
Steve Dyer
dyer@ursa-major.spdcc.com aka {ima,harvard,rayssd,linus,m2c}!spdcc!dyer
Newsgroups: sci.med
From: M20614@mwvm.mitre.org (Hugh Pritchard)
Subject: Re: Phobias, NLP, etc (was Re: Xanax)
Organization: The MITRE Corporation, McLean VA 22102
Date: Tue, 15 Sep 1992 18:10:49 GMT

In article <1992Sep15.163551.20122@linus.mitre.org>
m23364@mwunix (James Meritt) writes:
 
>In article <1992Sep15.000518.10846@spdcc.com> dyer@spdcc.com (Steve Dyer) writes:
>}In article <t3ynlgq.strnlght@netcom.com> strnlght@netcom.com (David Sternlight) writes:
>}>Mark Kline's use of the phrase "Like shit it does" in a serious discussion
>}>disqualifies him from any further serious consideration by me.
>}
>}Fine.  Now fuck off, and get the hell out of here like you promised,
>}you maroon.
>
>I really admire the way Mark Kline & Steve Dyer make their points.  No doubt
>they have a tremendous future in the political arena - heavy on the insults
>and light on the information.  That qualifies them as either career politicians
>or spoiled 6-year-olds.  I wonder why they think we should take posters of such
>obvious qualifications seriously about ANYTHING...
 
Mark is an MD.  Anybody who willingly goes through 10 years of med school,
internship, residency, and possibly a fellowship, deserves to be at least
listened to.  Steve, though now a computer jockey, is still a drug guru.
Ask him about any pharmaceutical; and then check his answer in any book
on drugs, or check with any MD/pharmacist.
 
Their answers are acerbic (rude, even) because some people *persist*
in trumpeting nonsense.  Anybody can be misinformed; it's this
insistence on remaining uninformed that infuriates many of us.
 
**  Hugh Pritchard,  hapritch@mitre.org,  703/883-6616
From: geb@dsl.pitt.edu (gordon e. banks)
Newsgroups: sci.med
Subject: Re: [Prescription Privileges]
Date: 11 Sep 92 20:37:17 GMT
Distribution: na
Organization: Decision Systems Laboratory, Univ. of Pittsburgh, PA.

In article <88516@netnews.upenn.edu> zorrilla@cattell.psych.upenn.edu (Eric Zorrilla) writes:
>
>	1)  Should an appropriately trained psychologist be granted
>limited prescription privileges of psychoactive medications?
>
>If so,
>
>	2)  What would be the nature (breadth and depth) of that training?

Enough medical and pharmacologic training to understand the side effects
of the drugs and deal with the possible interactions with other
drugs the patient might be taking for other conditions.  I would
guess 3 or 4 years of medical school and a year or two of residency
would be needed.  Psychiatrists often do quite poorly with some
aspects of this, despite their training.  It would be good if
the psychologists had even more training in the medical aspects
than the psychiatrists do, but I suppose that is too much to expect.

Seriously folks, I've seen psychiatrists who don't know any better
than to increase a patient's Cogentin when they develop tardive
diskinesia.  And now you want to turn psychologists loose with
these potent agents?  I'd be really, really careful.  
-- 
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Gordon Banks  N3JXP      | "Skepticism is the chastity of the intellect, and
geb@cadre.dsl.pitt.edu   |  it is shameful to surrender it too soon." 
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Newsgroups: sci.med
From: jcp@islay.dco.dec.com (Jolly C. Pancakes)
Subject: Re: "Anti-psychiatry": Cool the flames  ...was: Re: Xanax
Organization: Electric Otter Eel Emporium
Date: Tue, 8 Sep 1992 15:41:46 GMT

In article <1992Sep5.044656.20572@athena.cs.uga.edu> mcovingt@athena.cs.uga.edu (Michael A. Covington) writes:
>In article <1992Sep3.091357.29655@newstand.syr.edu> mdkline@rodan.acs.syr.edu (Mark D. Kline) writes:
>>Anxiety and mood disorders afflict women more often than men.
>Is there a solid biological basis for this, or could it be that our culture
>does not train women to cope with adversity?  (Or, conversely, trains
>men to be _too_ stoical?)


	It seems to me that I read something very recently about how
the old chestnut that women are more likely to be depressed than men
was not true. Men and women were found to suffer depression at about
the same rate, but women are more likely to seek treatment. 

	I probably saw this some place like the weekly Health section
of the Washington Post, so if anyone could come up with a more
substantial reference, I would welcome it.



-- 

------------
jcpatilla					jcp@islay.dco.dec.com
Organization: Carnegie Mellon, Pittsburgh, PA
Newsgroups: sci.med
Date: Mon, 14 Sep 1992 16:38:38 -0400 
From: Sean McLinden <sean+@andrew.cmu.edu>
Subject: Re: NLP-Discussion


>I am sick of the way NLP is discussed here by -adult!- people.
>And those who permanently cry for science behave most irrational and
>aggressive. Isn't this exactly the way new groundbreaking theories have
always >been offended?

No, not always (at least, not statistically speaking). In fact, I would
suspect that the reason we can all point to a few examples of theories
thought "crackpot" that proved to be true is because they are few but
prominent and often romanticized in historical novels.

More often than not, I suspect, "crackpot" theories are.

Sean

Newsgroups: sci.med
From: James_S._Bright.wbst129@XEROX.COM
Newsgroups: sci.med
Subject: T-cell question
Date: 11 Sep 92 15:22:38 GMT
Reply-To: JBright.Wbst129@xerox.com


Sorry if this is a re-post. I'm been trying to send this out for about 
3 weeks now (nice little system we got here...)

I have seen many references to HTLV (like type I or type III)
during dicussions of HIV and often in dicussions of leukemia. 
I am curious to know what exactly is HTLV, and what do the different 
forms mean? Is there any connection between the different forms 
besides the name? All I really know is that it relates to the T-cells 
and in some way to immunology. 

Thanks in advance.

jbright.wbst129@xerox.com

disclaimer: These views are strictly my own, are not meant to represent
Xerox, its associates, my parents, my school, nor my dog's.



			 
Newsgroups: sci.med,sci.bio,talk.politics.misc,news.groups,alt.society.civil-liberty