HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: jkjncs@ritvax.isc.rit.edu
Subject: Re: help with retriever problem
Reply-To: jkjncs@ritvax.isc.rit.edu
Organization: Rochester Institute of Technology
Date: Thu, 20 Aug 1992 16:36:45 GMT

In article <168488552.X005CB@tamvm1.tamu.edu>, X005CB@tamvm1.tamu.edu 
(Chris Barnes) writes:
>In article <1992Aug18.212606.25134@newshost.lanl.gov>
>  srlee@beta.lanl.gov (Stephen R Lee) writes:
> 
>>>  ...my description of using a shock collar and
>>>     video camera deleted to save space.....
> 
>>Is'nt this just a wee bit on the elaborate side?

I agree
>Perhaps.  But I did see it work....

Not always a good reason...

>Recall that the problem pooch didn't chew on things when she was
>home.  Kinda hard to give a command when you're not there.  For those

Wrong - re-read the post:

In article <3533@eastman.UUCP>
   garrison@kodak.com (Laurie Garrison) writes:
 
>i posted this question before, but i got no replies so i am
>trying again.  i have a three year old golden named Indy.
>this is the problem:  Indy does not destroy anything when
>i am not home.  when i *am* home, Indy seems to spend all of sher
>time looking for things to pick up and eat, like socks, underwear,
>used kleenix, shirts, remote controls, my glasses, etc.  if i don't 
>catch sher, she EATS them.  as in *gone*. she has eaten two pairs 
>of my glasses,

It sounds to me like Indy wants Laurie's attention and is very manipulative
at getting it. A friend of mine had this problem with their Brittany. To
solve the problem, they:
* took the dog to obedience class (Laurie, you're in my area, so feel free
  to e-mail me for info on local training schools); this helped in both
  controlling the dog and in maintaining the pack order (owners giving 
  commands are alpha)
* increased the correction for stealing - a good correction was to take
  the dog by the loose skin on the sides of the neck and lift the front
  of the dog off the ground, shaking her a bit, and scolding in low, 
  growly tones. Then ignore the dog for at least 5 minutes.
* uped the amount of exercise the dog gets; the obedience classes also
  helped increase the amount of attention the dog got.
* tried to be neater about leaving things lying around the house
* tried not to laugh or show any amusement when the dog 
  takes stuff she shouldn't - this is not always easy - my friend's Brittany
  liked to raid the laundry basket and would often fly around with various
  undergarments stuck to her face :+) - but, laughing will only encourage
  them.

To me, being in control of my dog means that I can always remove something
from his mouth; you should ask your obedience instructor to help you with
this and practice it often, since removing things from Indy's mouth will
also help maintain your status as leader.

Good Luck

********************************************************
* jane jackson and murphy b. lab, Am/Can CD, CGC, TDI  *
* jkjncs@ritvax.isc.rit.edu                            *
*                                                      *
* standard disclaimer applies...                       *
********************************************************

Newsgroups: rec.pets.dogs
From: dag@control.lth.se (Dag Bruck)
Subject: Re: Enviromental and Genetic Factors on HD (was Re: Scaredy cat dog)
Organization: Department of Automatic Control, Lund, Sweden
Date: Thu, 20 Aug 1992 06:35:10 GMT

In article <2A918806.28761@ics.uci.edu>
     tittle@ics.uci.edu (Cindy Tittle Moore) writes:
>>...  A very good study (written in Swedish,
>>unfortunately), tried to breed just for great hips and wound up with
>>mental problems.  They're now breeding for great hips and no mental
>>problems (and succeeding, though it's taking more generations (not
>>surprising) to acheive their goal).

Let me also add that these people, at the National Dog School in
Sweden, are much more competent than the average breeder.

In any case, I have found a reference to a paper in English:

	A. Hedhammar et al. (1979): Canine Hip Dysplasia: Study
	of Heridability in 401 Litters of German Shepherd Dog.
	JAVMA, Vol 174, No 9.

A related paper may be:

	H. Kasstrom: Nutrition, weight gain and development of
	hip dysplasia, Acta Radiologica 344 (suppl) 1975, 135-179.

I haven't read these papers.


		-- Dag
From: mjohnson@stake.DaytonOH.NCR.COM (Marget Johnson)
Newsgroups: rec.pets.dogs
Subject: Balancing Type, Temperament and Working Abilities (was Re: Looking
Date: 20 Aug 92 15:58:14 GMT
Organization: Stakeholder Relations, NCR Corp in Dayton,OH

for a new dog)
Reply-To: mjohnson@stake.DaytonOH.NCR.COM (Marget Johnson)
Distribution: world
Organization: Stakeholder Relations, NCR Corp in Dayton,OH
Keywords: 

I missed Terry Hull's orginal post on this, but here is an excerpt I'd like to
comment on:
>TH>...........  Too few people are concerned about a "total dog."  Some
>TH>want temperament only, some want looks only and yet others only care
>TH>about working ability.  I personally am not sure that a conformation
>TH>champion should have to show working ability, but I do think there
>TH>should be more emphasis on having both conformation and working titles
>TH>on dogs.  I would support a proposal for the AKC to combine a
>TH>conformation championship, some level of obedience or other working
>TH>title, and a temperament test to yield an all-around championship.  It
>TH>seems that while each of these areas are separate and can be judged that
>TH>way, but in the end these qualities must be combined in the best of
>TH>our dogs.

Some breed parent clubs have implemented your suggestion. The Newfoundland
Club of America offers a Versatilty award to any Newf that earns its AKC
championship, an AKC Companion Dog degree, a Newfoundland Club of America
Draft Dog title, and a Newfoundland Club of America Water Rescue Dog title
(the latter two titles can be earned at NCA-sponsored competition for Newfs
only. Dogs that have earned these titles have demonstrated their abilities to
perform the tasks for which Newfoundlands were developed... i.e. pulling
carts/wagons of logs, fish, nets, etc for their fishermen owners; and
life and property saving skills.) The Versatility title (shown as VN preceding
the Ch. of the dog's name) is a relatively recent development (about 5-6
years). Approximately 40 Newfs are VNs now. 
See, you CAN have it all!
*************************************************************
Marget Johnson, Windwagon Newfoundlands
--
From: rasmussenc@vaxb.gbus.virginia.edu
Newsgroups: rec.pets.dogs
Subject: building a fenced in area (was looking for new dog suggestions)
Date: 19 Aug 92 12:31:35 GMT
Organization: Darden Center, University of Virginia

Hi folks -

I was the originator of the "looking for new dog suggestions" post which 
started the now (in)famous thread about hunting breed usefulness.

Well, I listened to your comments and suggestions, (and became more educated 
along the way, I might add), and we purchased a Doberman puppy last 
weekend. :-)  I was not talked into not getting a hunting breed due to Chris 
Barnes, et al, but rather because I decided it was much easier on my 
emotions to try something completely different from our much missed and very 
special Golden.  Plus, the breeder is very serious and conscientious, is a 
vet-tech, lives 2 miles down the road from me, and had a pet quality little 
boy (white spot on chest) ready to go.  (BTW - For you riding enthusiasts 
who thought I shouldn't get this kind of a dog due to other riders' and 
hikers' I might meet on the trail who might automatically become defensive, 
I am not planning on clipping this guys ears, thereby making him look a 
little more friendly...)

So, to get to the reason for this post, I was wondering if any of you know 
of any good sources or have any recommendations for building a sort of pen/
run for our little Dobe.  Size, shape, materials, etc.  The breeder has a 
kennel in the middle of her pen, and the pen is only 4 feet high.  I can't 
imagine that 4 feet of fence will keep a Doberman in, but she obviously has 
not had any trouble...  I don't want to spend a fortune or a year building 
this, but I do want it to be a safe and happy (better than being inside on a 
nice day) for our little guy.  Also, I know if I was building this for my 
Golden, I would have DEFINITELY sunk the fence to deter digging -- should 
this be done anyway?

Well, sorry this is long, but I thought you all might like to know how this 
all has turned out. :-)  (Haven't had much sleep this week, but hey! who 
cares?)

Chris R.
From: terry@eece.ksu.edu (Terry Hull)
Newsgroups: rec.pets.dogs
Subject: Re: looking for new dog suggestions
Date: 12 Aug 1992 18:22:25 GMT
Organization: Kansas State University
NNTP-Posting-Host: ralph.eece.ksu.edu

X005CB@tamvm1.tamu.edu (Chris Barnes) writes:

>From my encycopidiea at home (as non-sporting, non-working).  I make
>no claims as to it's accuracy.
> 
>Chow-Chow
>Boston Terrier
>Bull Dog
>Dalmation
>Lhasa Apso
> 
The Dalmation was bred as a coach dog.  They were used to run beside
horse-drawn carriages and as guards for the horses at night.  That
explains both the Dalmation temperament (somewhat sharp) and their
ability to trot for hours on end with little strain.  

--
Terry Hull  -  terry@eece.ksu.edu
Department of Electrical and Computer Engineering, Kansas State University
From: bws20@duts.ccc.amdahl.com (Brian W Simmons)
Newsgroups: rec.pets.dogs
Subject: Re: To Bait or Not to Bait
Date: 14 Aug 92 23:39:07 GMT
Reply-To: bws20@DUTS.ccc.amdahl.com (Brian W Simmons)
Organization: Amdahl Corporation, Sunnyvale CA

Re my ongoing discussion with Kathleen (and others) re baiting dogs in the
ring.  Kathleen last mentioned that dogs are trained with treats (really
?  I _am_shocked. NOT), and that dogs in the obedience ring are rewarded
with treats after their performance.  This was in response to my question
about why baiting is _necessary_.  I had given the example of _real_working
dogs, like Susan Butchers sled dogs, or any cop's canine, or real shepherds
herding actual sheep, etc.  Those dogs seem quite capable of performing
their working functions without getting little treats as much as the show
folks give their dogs treats.  Kathleen did not respond to that.

I think the real answer here is one of taking an easier way.I get the idea
  from Kathleen's comments that she would not disapprove of obedience handlers
 being allowed to bait their dogs in the obedience ring.  There seems to
be an attitude of doing whatever it takes.  I find this sad.  I think many
dogs have much greater potential than some handlers wish to give them
credit for.
Let's face it there are a lot of handlers out there who use cosmetic
products to mitigate small coat or color problems.  There are handlers
who will, for example, try to groom a long-haired dog that is mildly
cow-hocked so as to diminish the appearance of this condition.  There are
a lot of handlers for whom dog-showing is a game they are willing to win at
almost any cost.

Someone also mentioned ( I think it was Kathleen) in an earlier letter
that some handlers are professionals, who might not see a dog until it
is ringside, who have had no hand in training it, and therefore baiting
is a good method for them to handle these strange dogs.   Well, guess
what, I don't like the concept of professional handling either.  I think
it is a sad state for dog showing to come to.  Call me an idiot, naive
idealist, but I think the dog fancy should be one of enthusiasts (_GASP_)
working their own dogs.  Raising, training, showing, working your dog.
/
I know that most folks do this/  I detest (yes, that is a strong word) the
very idea of owning a dog, sending it out to be trained, sending it out
to be groomed, sending it out to be handled, then claiming _your_dog got
its CH.  This really reduces the dog from a working companion to an item
of merchandise, a mere material possession with which the owner has very
little in the way of personal relationship.This is a sad thing, and I
think it is a bad thing.

Whew!  Good thing I am not opinionated, eh?

bws
--
**************************************************************************
bws20@amail.amdahl.com      the human heart holds hidden treasures,
brian wesley simmons          in secret kept, in silence sealed
**************************************************************************
From: clr60@ccc.amdahl.com (Catherine L Reck)
Newsgroups: rec.pets.dogs
Subject: Siberian Husky For Sale
Date: 12 Aug 92 21:49:31 GMT
Reply-To: clr60@JUTS.ccc.amdahl.com (Catherine L Reck)
Distribution: ba
Organization: Amdahl Corporation, Sunnyvale CA

We recently "rescued" a 9 month old male Siberian. The people that had him
could not affort to keep him. He was not mistreated and is in good shape. We
rescued him because he is a puppy out of our male. We have given him all of
his shots, rabies included. He has been flea bathed and wormed. We are getting
him fixed next week, and will also send in his AKC registration.

Sinjin is a black and white male with brown eyes. His markings are very
striking, he looks typically "Innisfree". He is house broken, good with
children (we have a 2 year old), and gets along with our other dogs. He likes 
to pull the dog cart. He is very mellow for a puppy, (but he is still a puppy)
he probably gets that from his sire.

Sinjin is for sale at $250.00 (most of it goes to our costs) to a good home. I 
would prefer a local buyer so you could come to see him. Please contact me via
Email.

Catherine Reck
Siber Kahn Kennel - the kennel kids, Yuri and Khiva (Mikka, Sasha, Hassie)
Khiva Working Dog Outfitters - dog carts, backpacks, harnesses, body leads
From: winders@aux.support.apple.com (Scott Winders)
Newsgroups: rec.pets.dogs
Subject: Re: Blue Dobermans
Date: 17 Aug 92 21:11:46 GMT
Followup-To: rec.pets.dogs
Organization: Apple Computer, Inc.

In article <4310.83.uupcb@cutting.hou.tx.us>,
kathleen.brewer@cutting.hou.tx.us (Kathleen Brewer) wrote:
> 
> TO: winders@aux.support.apple.com
> 
> SW>Breeding blue to blue in Dobes does not increase the risk of new
> SW>genetic problems. Nor, in Dobes, does it increase the risk of any
> SW>problems not normally associated with blues Dobes.
> 
> SW>People that makes statements like the one above need to learn a little
> SW>more about genetics so they do noit perpetuate false information.
> 
> Excuse me Scott, this article with a picture was in the "Dog Fancy"
> Magazine. It was an article concerning "Albino" Dobes. They have pink
> eyes and can not be allowed in the sun. The people that decided to breed
> this abomination used Blue Dobes until they bred out the pigmintation!!
> 

Kathleen,

I don't care what "Dog Fancy" has to say about this.  Breeding blue
to blue will not get rid of any pigmintation.  You or any one else
that thinks this will happen needs to study genetics so you will
not believe every half-truth or lie that is printed or talked about.

An albino Doberman is the result of a genetic mutation(s) in the color
genes of the dog. This mutation can be passed on and, with careful
breeding, can be made common in phenotype.

The Doberman Pinscher Club of America (DPCA) did detailed studies
on white Dobermans. All of the animals in the study had blue eyes
and cream tan-spot markings.  All of the white Dobermans they new
about had outside the study had blue eyes. They were extemely
photosensitive.

Scott Winders
winders@aux.support.apple.com

"My opinions are my own, not my employer's"
From: may@oasys.dt.navy.mil (Dolores May)
Newsgroups: rec.pets.dogs
Subject: WANTED King Charles Cavilier Spaniel
Date: 18 Aug 92 16:51:35 GMT
Reply-To: may@oasys.dt.navy.mil (Dolores May)
Distribution: na
Organization: Annapolis Facility, Carderock Division, NSWC

After doing our homework, our family has  developed the total desire
to have a King Charles Cavilier Spaniel.  We got really excited....
falling in love....with the pet we were to embrase as "family".  Then
we began to call breeders in the N.E....and found we were not prepared
for the $800-1000 going rate.  Since my daughter is the one buying this
pet...she was greatly "SHOCKED"(though she is prepared to pay something).

We really have no color preference....as we are interested in their
personality.

An older (non-puppy) is just fine...

We  feel there are advantages   to each the male and the female...
so we would  be happy with either.

We thought maybe we could find   an orphan....or someone's very special
"companion" who needs to be placed in a loving home.  We lost oooour
very special dog about 1 1/2 years ago...and are anxious to adopt.

Thanks
Dolores Adams
Xref: sparky rec.pets.dogs:9908 rec.pets.cats:9937
From: kathleen.brewer@cutting.hou.tx.us (Kathleen Brewer)
Newsgroups: rec.pets.dogs
Subject: Re: looking for new dog suggestions
Date: 15 Aug 92 04:15:00 GMT
Reply-To: kathleen.brewer@cutting.hou.tx.us (Kathleen Brewer)
Organization: The Cutting Edge - Houston, TX - 713-466-1525

TO: terry@eece.ksu.edu

TH>get their CH.  Too few people are concerned about a "total dog."  Some
TH>want temperament only, some want looks only and yet others only care
TH>about working ability.  I personally am not sure that a conformation
TH>champion should have to show working ability, but I do think there
TH>should be more emphasis on having both conformation and working titles
TH>on dogs.  I would support a proposal for the AKC to combine a
TH>conformation championship, some level of obedience or other working
TH>title, and a temperament test to yield an all-around championship.  It
TH>seems that while each of these areas are separate and can be judged that
TH>way, but in the end these qualities must be combined in the best of
TH>our dogs.

Terry,
I have to agree with your idea on this as I show in both conformation
and obedience. (My Non-Sporting Boston has a CD) the problem with it
though is that not all people have the temperment to train for
obedience. Conformation is fairley simple to train a dog for, but
obedience is another story. I think it takes a person with alot of
patience to train for ob and not everyone has the edurance to out last a
stubborn dog!

Kathleen.Brewer@cutting.hou.tx.us
---
 . OLX 2.1 . Other than that Mrs. Lincoln, how did you enjoy the play?
From: mlhb@mammoth.dr.att.com (Sky Warrior)
Newsgroups: rec.pets.dogs
Subject: Re: 2 dogs need new homes (half-Samoyed male; American Eskimo female)
Date: 20 Aug 92 19:48:29 GMT
Distribution: na

In article <1992Aug19.190306.29517@gvl.unisys.com>, pastor@prc.unisys.com (Jon Pastor) writes:
|> There is another alternative to de-barking.  R.C.Steele (and, I suspect, other
|> pet supplies places) sell a sound-activated "barker-breaker" that uses a
|> hypersonic sound to distract the dog.  Haven't tried it, so I don't know if it
|> works.

I asked Nancy Johnson of Blue Springs 'N Katydid Dog Training School if these
methods (Barker Breaker, Pet Agree, etc) work.  She had bought one to try out. 
She said it worked for the first time, but after that, the dog wasn't impressed
and continued barking.  She recommended a firm foundation in obedience.  (I
agree)  Debarking is an extreme method, but I think the original poster was in
that kind of situation.

Sky Warrior

-- 
-----------------------------                                              
SKY WARRIOR aka MLH Bonham  | "Good tea.  Nice House." -- Lt. Worf
mammoth!mlhb@druhi.att.com  |----------------------------------------------
mlhb@drutx.ATT.COM          | SKY WARRIOR RACING KENNELS - Coming to an
                            | Iditarod near you!
-----------------------------
From: sec@csc.canberra.edu.au (Stacey Curtis)
Newsgroups: rec.pets.dogs
Subject: Re: Show Brags - (Bookers weekend)
Date: 14 Aug 92 06:05:02 GMT
Organization: University Of Canberra
X-Useragent: Nuntius v1.1

In article <1992Aug10.204919.19519@icd.ab.com> Robert E. Pappenhagen,
rep@icd.ab.com writes:
>Sunday night he started his career as a stud dog mating his
>1/2 sisters (dirrefent moms) mother.
>
>So I guess I'll add a question... what he going to like when
>we get him back on Thursday...???

Very smug.  Very proud of himself and probably very tired.  Then watch
the fun whenever there's a bitch in season around him.
From: winders@aux.support.apple.com (Scott Winders)
Newsgroups: rec.pets.dogs
Subject: Re: looking for new dog suggestions
Date: 14 Aug 92 22:37:35 GMT
Followup-To: rec.pets.dogs
Organization: Apple Computer, Inc.

In article <16842C074.X005CB@tamvm1.tamu.edu>, X005CB@tamvm1.tamu.edu
(Chris Barnes) wrote:

> >Another comment:  for some dogs, the original work is no longer available.
> >Do many people hunt with deerhounds or wolfhounds?  What about terriers?
> >If work is no longer available, the dogs simply become pets, bred for their
> >looks.  Oh well, what other options are there?
>  
> I suppose if I am no longer allowed to waterfowl hunt, then I will
> no longer have need of a Lab.  Until then, I will defend it's purpose.

Please, defend the dog's purpose all you want. But don't try to force
others
to "use" their dogs the way you want them to. Domestic dogs, as we know
them
today, were created by man (through selective breeding, no deities here)
for their own use.

The herding abilities of the Australian Cattle Dog comes from the hunting
instincts of wild dogs to corner thier prey.

If someone wants to take a hunting dog and make it a perfect companion,
let them.

Scott Winders
winders@aux.support.apple.com

"My opinions are my own, not my employer's"
Newsgroups: rec.pets.dogs
From: jkjncs@ritvax.isc.rit.edu
Subject: Re: Hunting ability in Labradors
Reply-To: jkjncs@ritvax.isc.rit.edu
Organization: Rochester Institute of Technology
Date: Wed, 19 Aug 1992 19:18:25 GMT

In article <1992Aug18.200210.3794@morrow.stanford.edu>, 
liza@pangea.Stanford.EDU (Liza Miller) writes:
>that being overly critical of the "lack of hunting ability"
>in labs has NOTHING to do with solving the problems in
>Labs today.

Well, really I'm responding to the thread and not as much to Liza's post.
BUT, I have a short story to relate.

I got my lab almost two years ago from a breeder who does conformation
only. Folks have shown some of her labs in obedience (that I know of); I
also know of folks who have bought dogs from her that they hunt with.
So, I get this pup - a product of two show lines; he's turned into a
mellow, happy-go-lucky adult (almost too mellow for the obedience I
want to do with him, but we're getting there :+) who never runs anywhere
but walks; looks-wise he's a throwback to some other generation since
he's fairly small and *very* slight of bone.
"Murphy" likes to retrieve, but with the usual casual style with which he
does everything.
Anyway, a month ago Murphy accompanied me to an AKC hunting test. Folks,
Mr. Hyde became Dr. Jekyll -> when the guns started going off and the birds
were thrown, suddenly I had this lunging, screaming (he *never* even barks
at home!) maniac at the end of the leash!
So, just goes to show, you never know what you have til you try - and
maybe they're not totally breeding the "retrieve" out of the retriever
in the show lines.

Oh, BTW, I've entered Murphy in a WC test next month and we'll train 
for the JH tests next summer. (Suddenly I find myself talking pigeon
prices - yikes, this can get crazy! :+). However, unless I can pull
myself out of bed at 3 am to go with my friend's husband, this lab
may never get out to a real duck hunt (OK, maybe I'll try it once
this fall - but just *once*).

*********************************************************
* jane jackson and murphy b. lab, Am./Can. CD, CGC, TDI *
* jkjncs@ritvax.isc.rit.edu                             *
*                                                       *
* standard disclaimer applies...                        *
*********************************************************

Newsgroups: rec.pets.dogs