HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: amdunn@mongrel.UUCP (Andrew M. Dunn)
Subject: Re: Long-Distance: Who's got the Feeling now?
Organization: A. Dunn Systems Corporation, Kitchener, Ontario, Canada
Distribution: can
Date: Sat, 07 Nov 92 16:26:02 GMT

sdfinuca@cayley.uwaterloo.ca (Sean Finucane) writes about long-distance rates
subsidizing local calls:

>Canadians have come to see a telephone as a natural convenience.  Multiple
>phone lines and people casually making long local calls are commonplace
>in my experience.  This could change if nothing is done to stop it.

True.  But is it fair?

Sean, you regard the ability to call your friends and relatives for
long periods of time, for free, as a right.  OK.

What if my friends and relatives are all long-distance, and yours
are local?

Is it fair that I pay hundreds of dollars a month to call the people
I wish to call, to subsidize your free calling?   I don't possibly see
how this can be regarded as a fair system.

What about a business located outside of Toronto (let's say, in
Kitchener-Waterloo, serving the local customer base).  They still have
to deal with vendors, agencies and governments located in Toronto, and
this costs them hundreds of dollars more per month than their competitors
within the Toronto free calling area.  Far more extra than it should, 
because of the subsidy.  So this local company's goods are now more
expensive, and all their customers go to Toronto to buy them cheaper 
instead.  Is this fair?

Why is the system set up this way?  Because, in a monopoly situation,
the service provider (ie. Bell) can do what they want.  A competitive
marketplace would never sustain this kind of cross-subsidy.  But it
allows Bell to claim cheaper local rates.

I don't see any reason why people shouldn't pay for the services
they use.  If they use local equipment (the telephone, the wires from
the house, the wires to the telephone exchange, and that multi-million
dollar collection of switching equipment) WHY SHOULD THEY GET THAT
FOR FREE?   And why should the people who, in addition, use long
distance services pay for all of the local equipment?

Seems to me that the repair and installation staff at Bell service
almost exclusively local lines.  They come to fix your local phone
when it breaks, and put the local circuit wires back on the poles
when the wind blows them down.  All of this equipment is available
for you to use, FOR FREE, at _my_ expense if I use long-distance
services.  These staff maintain this equipment for you to use, FOR
FREE, at _my_ expense.

Really fair system, huh?

I welcome deregulation.  Maybe we'll _all_ get a chance at
affordable, fairly-priced telephone services.  I agree with you,
the telephone is a commonplace, natural convenience.  Let's make
it a fairly-priced one, too.


Andy
-- 
:-------------------------------------------------------------------------:
:  Andy Dunn           <amdunn@mongrel.UUCP> or <dunn5177@mach1.WLU.CA>   :
:  "AT&T thinks Usenet is an Underground organization" - are we really?   :
:-------------------------------------------------------------------------:
Newsgroups: ont.general
From: msb@sq.sq.com (Mark Brader)
Subject: Re: Back to School
Followup-To: poster
Organization: SoftQuad Inc., Toronto, Canada
Distribution: ont
Date: Wed, 11 Nov 92 10:30:21 GMT

> Teacher magazine reports that the Paterson, N.J., school system,
> in cooperation with a local judge, has ...
> Should parents receive punishment (Y or N)?

Is this nj.general (Y or N)?

There are *hundreds* of other newsgroups, some of which may be appropriate
to the topic.  This one is for topics that are specific to Ontario.  Please
use it that way!
-- 
Mark Brader, SoftQuad Inc., Toronto		"Remember the Golgafrinchans"
utzoo!sq!msb, msb@sq.com					-- Pete Granger

This article is in the public domain.
From: ian.evans@bville.gts.org (Ian Evans) 
Newsgroups: ont.general
Subject: Junk FAX
Date: 10 Nov 92 15:00:00 GMT
Distribution: ont
Organization: Baudeville BBS - Toronto, Canada 416-283-0114 2200+ conferences
Reply-To: ian.evans@bville.gts.org (Ian Evans) 

In <1992Nov9.133800.24913@analsyn.gts.org> Anton Writes:

AJ>Yes, I know I can get call blocking, but why should I have to pay
AJ>to stop other people harassing me?   If I was being threated by my SO's
AJ>ex I wouldn't have to pay the police to keep him away.  Why should I
AJ>have to pay to be not inconvenienced?  How is telephone harasment by FAX
AJ>different from telephone harasment by voice?

One technique that's been proven to stand up in court in the U.S.:

Draft up a very reasonable looking letter thanking the person for
trying out your new fax checking service.  State that the fax just rec'd
was looked over and seems to work quite well.  State also that this was
a free first time offer and that subsequent faxes to your number will
result in a bill of ($50/$100/whatever).  Tell them no reply is necessary,
that receiving their next fax will constitute acceptance of these terms.

In the States, the people have tried this have not only been able to stop
the faxes but sometimes get the money 'owed' them when the accounting dep't
rec'd their bill. <g>

You can also try a variation with telephone solicitors.

CompuServe ID: 73117,545 UUCP: bville!ian.evans| Ian Evans - Sysop
INTERNET:ian.evans@bville.gts.org              | Baudeville BBS - Toronto
OTHERS: ian.evans@canrem.com                   | 416-283-0114 (v32bis/HST)

 * DeLuxe2/386 1.25 #5896 * Baudeville BBS - The Economical Email Emporium
From: khasin@canstar.com (Kha Sin Teow)
Newsgroups: ont.general
Subject: RFI: SUN vars/dealers/suppliers
Keywords: Sun workstation, VARs, dealers, suppliers
Date: 11 Nov 92 15:02:22 GMT
Distribution: ont
Organization: Alcatel Canada Wire - Canstar Div., Toronto


We are in the process of getting some Sun SparcStations and peripherals
(disk strorage, tape backup sub-system, etc.).
I would like to know which local (Metro Toronto) dealers/suppliers/vars that
others have experienced, in terms of price competativeness and support.
Good one, excellent one, bad one, whatever.

In addition, we plan to standardize our user interface with the MOTIF window
manager (we also have HP/VUE or MOTIF in house).
There are several packages available on SUN, I would like to hear your
experience with them.

Since some of the remarks might be unfavorable to some suppliers,
please respond directly via e-mail.
It's not my intention to start a "bashing" session in a public forum.
If you interested in the information that I collect,
please express your interest directly to me.
I'll e-mail you the information.

khasin@canstar.com
North York, Ontario.
Newsgroups: ont.general
From: burke@seachg.uucp (Michael Burke)
Subject: Re: fighting parking ticket,  ALWAYS PLEAD NOT GUILTY!
Reply-To: burke@seachg.UUCP (Michael Burke)
Organization: Sea Change Corporation, Mississauga, Ontario, Canada
Distribution: ont
Date: Thu, 5 Nov 92 18:06:00 GMT

In article <Bx4722.Jy@ecf.toronto.edu> ossia@ecf.toronto.edu (Kamran Ossia) writes:
>In article <1992Nov2.153106.19078@utstat.uucp> william@utstat.uucp (William Chow) writes:
>>
>>
>>Can anyone tell me if it is true that if you get a parking ticket
>>and you plead not guilty and a court date is set up but the time
>>from the date of the parking ticket and the court date is more than
>>6 months, then you will be aquitted?
>
>This is the decision of the justice of the peace.  Six months may be
>cutting it close, but over eight months will definitely get you off
>iff you explicitly "move to stay the charge".  The judge will usually
>ask you if you have anything to say before they proceed.  This is 
>your signal.
>
>It seems, however, that the city/province has learned its lesson and
>is scheduling trial dates earlier.  They may no longer give you night
>court, either.  Regardless, plead not guilty and go to court.  There
>is a good chance that the officer will not show up, and even if s/he
>does, any silly argument will get you at least a reduction in the
>fine.  I personally have lost only one parking case in the last 12
>years (out of more than 15).  Indeed, the more people plead not guilty,
>the less likely are officers to write borderline tickets.  The cost of
>prosecuting you is far more than the fine.
>
What a travesty of our justice system. Here we have someone who obviously 
has a problem with parking legally presenting strategies for "beating" the
system. Makes you kind of think about what goes on within prison walls,
doesn't it?

Perhaps we need to spend more time on productive ventures and less on
"beating" the systems designed to protect us.

Our collective fixation on "beating" the system can snowball very quickly.
It might start with a "borderline" parking ticket, expand to other "not so
borderline" parking tickets; leading to stretching the highway traffic laws 
and potentially to outright violation of any law that does not seem to fit 
one's current mood or state of mind.  

As more people break laws (major or minor) our cost to prosecute go up.
This is true at all levels and all courts. Is the poster's goal to
eliminate parking laws in our cities or just to enlighten codefenders to
the tricks of scamming the system? Why even bother with courts and a
justice system? 

If someone can justify this behaviour at one level of law breaking - it
becomes even easier to justify at more serious levels.

Just my $.02 anyway...


-- 
---
Michael Burke

Sea Change Corporation
6695 Millcreek Drive, Unit 8 
Mississauga, Ontario, Canada L5N 5R8
Tel: 416-542-9484  Fax: 416-542-9479
UUCP: ...!uunet!uunet.ca!seachg!burke
From: terry@gtm-inc.com (Terry Gerritsen)
Newsgroups: ont.general
Subject: Back to School
Keywords: Punishement
Date: 10 Nov 92 23:52:51 GMT
Reply-To: terry@gtm-inc.com (Terry Gerritsen)
Distribution: ont
Organization: G.T.M. Incorporated, Kingston, ON (613) 546-3078
Content-Type: Text


     Teacher magazine reports that the Paterson, N.J., school system,
in cooperation with a local judge, has come up with a new approach to
combating chronic student absenteeism: ordering parents of traunts to
work in the schools. The municipal court judge, Nestor Guzman, has
reportedly sentenced at least 30 parents of habitual truants to spend
between a week and a month serving as hall monitors, filing papers,
and even scrubbing graffiti off walls.
     Critics of the program argue that it is unfair both in punishing
what may be innocent parents, and ineffective in motivating the traunt 
students themselves to improve their attendance. Local school officials
say the new techique works, however, with average daily attendance
rising from 91 to 93 percent in hust the first two months.
     Other communities have required parents of truants to attend school
with their children, but Paterson school officials think their program
is the first to actually require parents to perform services in the schools.

Should parents receive punishment (Y or N)?
comments welcome

---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Terry Gerritsen         |  G.T.M. Incorporated              (613) 384 0162
terry@gtm-inc.com       |  Kingston, Ontario           Fax: (613) 389 4594
                      "Transportation is our business"
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: scott@skypod.gts.org (Scott Campbell)
Newsgroups: ont.general
Subject: Re: fighting parking ticket,  ALWAYS PLEAD NOT GUILTY!
Date: 4 Nov 92 18:10:13 GMT
Distribution: ont
Organization: Skypod Communications Inc., Toronto, Ontario

In article <1992Nov3.160155.4891@bcrka451.bnr.ca> janick@bnr.ca writes:
>In article <Bx4722.Jy@ecf.toronto.edu>, ossia@ecf.toronto.edu writes:
>> The cost of prosecuting you is far more than the fine.
>And who ultimately pays ? you (and me). You are delluding yourself
>if you think you got off for less money. You are costing yourself
>(and all of us) a lot more.

As a matter of interest, who does pay?  If I get caught by a Metro cop
does Metro pay for my prosecution or does the province?

Of course, I suppose its all out of the same pocket in the end, I was
just wondering if More Value Assessment means that City of Toronto
taxpayers will be subsidizing Etobicoke speeders even more....

In article <Bx4722.Jy@ecf.toronto.edu> ossia@ecf.toronto.edu writes:
>It seems, however, that the city/province has learned its lesson and
>is scheduling trial dates earlier.  They may no longer give you night
>court, either.  Regardless, plead not guilty and go to court.  There
>is a good chance that the officer will not show up, and even if s/he
>does, any silly argument will get you at least a reduction in the
>fine.  I personally have lost only one parking case in the last 12
>years (out of more than 15).  Indeed, the more people plead not guilty,
>the less likely are officers to write borderline tickets.  The cost of
>prosecuting you is far more than the fine.

A friend of mine got a parking ticket for parking on the sidewalk
overnight outside his apartment building a couple of years ago.  He
went down to Old City Hall (in Toronto) and pleaded not guilty.
I think this was in Feb. or March. of '90.  When the court date came
in Feb. '91 (almost a year later), the cop didn't show and they ripped
it up.

It's worth a try and at least you don't have to pay for a long time.

scott

-- 
Scott J.M. Campbell            The truth hurts... Oh sure, maybe not as much as
Skypod Communications Inc.      jumping onto a bicycle with the seat missing...
Toronto, Ont. (416) 465-6504                            ..but it hurts. 
  scott@skypod.gts.org              Maple Leafs win the Stanley Cup in '93!!!
From: terry@gtm-inc.com (Terry Gerritsen)
Newsgroups: ont.general
Subject: T-shirts
Keywords: Oh My
Date: 10 Nov 92 23:50:10 GMT
Reply-To: terry@gtm-inc.com (Terry Gerritsen)
Distribution: ont
Organization: G.T.M. Incorporated, Kingston, ON (613) 546-3078
Content-Type: Text

And What About T-Shirts?
       In June, an Arizona state court denied a student's request for
an injuction against a school policy forbidding the wearing of T-shirts
believed to be related to gang identification. The 12-year old plaintiff
was sent home for wearing a T-shirt decorated with a drawing of Michael
Jordon of the Chicago Bulls basketball team. School policy prohibited
the wearing of certain sports team logos that had been adopted by certain 
youth gangs as their emblems.
      The student, an honor roll student and athlete not known to be 
involved in gang activity, claimed the school rule violated his First
Amendment rights, but the state trial court ruled in favour of the school
district on the grounds that "the safety of students and the curtailment
of gang activity" provide a "rational basis" for the rule.
     At last report, the boy's lawyer threatened an appeal if a satisfactory
resolution to his complaint could not be negotiated. (Burton v. Phoenix
Union High School District; Maricopa County Superior Court)

---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Terry Gerritsen         |  G.T.M. Incorporated              (613) 384 0162
terry@gtm-inc.com       |  Kingston, Ontario           Fax: (613) 389 4594
                      "Transportation is our business"
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Newsgroups: ont.general,tor.general,mi.misc
From: ajackson@ernie.Princeton.EDU (Andrew William Jackson)
Newsgroups: ont.general,sci.electronics,rec.radio.amateur.misc
Subject: Re: Printed Circuit Boards, Maker Wanted.
Date: 8 Nov 92 01:22:16 GMT
Organization: Princeton University
Originator: news@nimaster

In article <JBORE.92Oct28114909@cosmos.shearson.com> jbore@cosmos.shearson.com (Joe Bore) writes:
>ok, here is my question, i had a prototype board made for me from some
>software that i was using.  ps the software is supercad ($99 for the
>pc and for hobbyist/semi-professional it's REALLY good!)  but when i
>got the board i realized i couldnt solder ic plugs (and other various
>components) to the board because for a prototype they dont plate
>through the holes (or via's) so therefore when i stuck the socket on,
>i could solder the back side but not the top because it was right
>against the board.  and you need to solder both sides other wise the
>coneection just isnt made.
>
>What is the usual method for soldering on both sides of the board for
>components like these on prototype pc boards???
>

	We have our boards made at a very reasonable price and they plate
through the holes.  It really is not that big a deal - it just requires
that the holes be drilled before the board is exposed and etched- so some
sort of computer contolled pcb drill is needed.  
	If you want your boards to be reliable and you don't feel like 
wasting time getting frustrated trying to solder boards without plated
through holes - I suggest you find someone else to make your boards.  It 
is not worth the hassle of trying to solder double sided boards without
thru plated holes.

ajackson@athena.princeton.edu
From: bdb@becker.GTS.ORG (Bruce Becker)
Newsgroups: ont.general
Subject: Re: Men's Attitudes (Was: Take Back The Night)
Date: 9 Nov 92 02:49:34 GMT
Distribution: ont
Organization: G. T. S., Toronto, Ontario

In article <1992Nov6.082707.16309@gov.on.ca> renzland@gov.on.ca (Peter Renzland) writes:
|spooge@sizone.UUCP (Cyberpolka On Da Jeep) and various other boys write:
|
|>Women should look for more effective ways of empowerment than to change
|>the spelling of a word to fonetik form. Its trivial, and with alot of
|>people viewing it as a "typical feminist tactic" and equating their
|>other efforts with this, it undermines them in general. 
|
|It's their party.  They didn't invite you.  So why does this offend you?
|How is your attitute that says "They're being stupid and I know better
|what's good for them" different from the intolerance and arrogance of the
|typical harrasser, abuser, or assaulter of women from whom so many of the
|boys posting in this thread have been trying so hard to distance themselves?
|(*I* am not the problem.  I am a good male.  I'm your friend, I'm here to
|help you.  You *need* my help and support, etc., etc)


	Thanks for saying this Peter (& the rest of
	your posting as well) - it needs to be said
	and you've put it quite well in my opinion.


-- 
  ,u,	 Bruce Becker			Toronto, Ontario
a /i/	 Internet: bdb@becker.gts.org	Uucp: ...!web!becker!bdb
 `\o\-e
 _< /_	 	DO NOT TAUNT HAPPY FUN BUSH - H. R. Perotnoid
Newsgroups: ont.general
From: john@chance.gts.org (John R MacMillan)
Subject: Re: fighting parking ticket, ALWAYS PLEAD NOT GUILTY!
Organization: $HOME
Distribution: ont
Date: Wed, 4 Nov 1992 20:53:11 GMT

|So, let's hear it, Mr. Safety.  Why did Erik deserve to get Burned? He didn't
|say he was weaving in and out of traffic, cutting of school busses for kicks.
|(and I've seen too many people do this at 110kmh to say that speed is the
|reason).  

I'm not Mr. Safety, but if I may...

Erik deserved to get Burned with a capital B because he (presumably
wittingly) broke a traffic law.  I do it myself often, and I've been
caught a couple of times; that's the risk I took in deciding to
speed.  It's called ``personal responsibility''.  He made the
decision, he got caught, he should pay the fine, or else you and I pay
for him to take it to court.
From: "bill daddis" <bill.daddis@canrem.com>
Subject: puppies to canada
Reply-To: "bill daddis" <bill.daddis@canrem.com>
Organization: Canada Remote Systems
Distribution: ont
Date: 4 Nov 92 19:47:23 EST

Hi Paul,
When we brought our terrier into Canada, some five years ago, all we
needed was a certificate that she'd been given a rabies shot and
vaccinations for the usual run of doggy diseases.  The dialogue went
something like this:
Customs Officer: "Who's that?"
Me: "This is Muffin."
C.O.: "Have you got a rabies certificate, Muffin?"
Me: "Yes, she does....half a second..." (fumble in pocket)
C.O. "Oh, that's all right then, carry on, welcome to Canada!"
And away we went  !

Cheers,
                  -- Bill
--
Canada Remote Systems  - Toronto, Ontario
World's Largest PCBOARD System - 416-629-7000/629-7044
Newsgroups: ont.general
From: stu1d46@bmerh255.bnr.ca (Erik P. Trounce)
Subject: Re: fighting parking ticket, ALWAYS PLEAD NOT GUILTY!
Organization: Bell-Northern Research, Ottawa, Canada
Distribution: ont
Date: Fri, 06 Nov 92 16:51:14 GMT

In article <1992Nov4.205311.2988@chance.gts.org> john@chance.gts.org (John R MacMillan) writes:
>|So, let's hear it, Mr. Safety.  Why did Erik deserve to get Burned? He didn't
>|say he was weaving in and out of traffic, cutting of school busses for kicks.
>|(and I've seen too many people do this at 110kmh to say that speed is the
>|reason).  
>
>I'm not Mr. Safety, but if I may...
>
>Erik deserved to get Burned with a capital B because he (presumably
>wittingly) broke a traffic law.  I do it myself often, and I've been
>caught a couple of times; that's the risk I took in deciding to
>speed.  It's called ``personal responsibility''.  He made the
>decision, he got caught, he should pay the fine, or else you and I pay
>for him to take it to court.

I think a few people are missing the point here.  My original post just asked
for some experiences people have had in fighting a speeding ticket.  Just that.
I didn't endorse speeding, and I didn't complain that the system was stupid and
that I didn't deserve the ticket.  If I have to, I will pay the full fine.
However, if I can avoid paying a fine, or at least reduce the amount, that's
a few bucks I can spend towards more constructive pursuits.

Just because I deserve something, doesn't mean that I will get it if it's good,
or that I won't try to avoid it if it's bad.  Canada's law system is there
presumably for the common man, so I'm going to see if it will give me a break.

Erik.
'BNR doesn't even know I exist so how could my views represent theirs.
From: geoff@zswamp.UUCP (Geoffrey Welsh)
Newsgroups: ont.general
Subject: Re: Men's Attitudes (Was: Take Back The Night)
Date: Sun, 08 Nov 92 13:57:53 EST
Organization: Izot's Swamp

   I was about to respond in detail to Peter Renzland's posting about the 
usage of the word "womyn"... fortunately, before I saved my message, I 
observed that Peter's reply was not directly related to the message he was 
quoting and I feared that my message might be even worse for countering 
imaginary statements. 

   Folks, I've seen this happen so many times: this argument no longer 
addresses issues, it serves only as a forum for personal conflict.  It has 
reached the stage where the participants are becoming defensive, reacting to a 
disagreement as if it were a personal attack. 

   We have not yet fallen to abuse, and I don't want to see that happen.  I 
hope that we can take a pause and be sure that we continue this discussion, if 
we choose to do so at all, in a calm and friendly manner so that we may all 
learn from each other, rather than become so defensive that we come away angry 
that others had the audacity to disagree with our infinite wisdom.  If we do, 
we might even be the first in the history of computer network conferencing to 
accomplish this feat! 

  Geoffrey Welsh, 7 Strath Humber Court, Islington, Ontario, M9A 4C8 Canada
geoff@zswamp.uucp, [xenitec.on.ca|m2xenix.psg.com]!zswamp!geoff (416)258-8467
       You're still young if your wallet is exhausted before you are.
Newsgroups: ont.general
From: amdunn@mongrel.UUCP (Andrew M. Dunn)
Subject: Re: STOP IT Re: fighting parking ticket, ALWAYS PLEAD NOT GUILTY!
Organization: A. Dunn Systems Corporation, Kitchener, Ontario, Canada
Distribution: ont
Date: Fri, 06 Nov 92 03:44:39 GMT

In article <1992Nov3.180616.7089@bcrka451.bnr.ca> janick@bnr.ca writes:
>
>NO! STOP IT RIGHT NOW! WE DON'T NEED THIS DISCUSSION AGAIN!!!	
>
>This damn discussion about speeding pops its ugly head up in every
>newsgroup at an interval of about 2 months. We had it in here just
>6 months ago!!!


Interval = 2 months
Last time was 6 months ago.

You mean we missed two whole rounds of discussion??????

Aaakkkphlh!
-- 
:-------------------------------------------------------------------------:
:  Andy Dunn           <amdunn@mongrel.UUCP> or <dunn5177@mach1.WLU.CA>   :
:  "AT&T thinks Usenet is an Underground organization" - are we really?   :
:-------------------------------------------------------------------------:
Newsgroups: ont.singles