From: philip@utstat.uucp (Philip McDunnough)
Subject: Re: Games on consoles
Organization: University of Toronto, Dept. of Statistics
Date: Wed, 29 Jul 1992 07:50:30 GMT

In article <192372@ipl.jpl.nasa.gov> pdb059@ipl.jpl.nasa.gov (Paul Bartholomew) writes:

[ ]
>
>Well, I'm not equipped to speak for "most people" (neither, I suspect, are
>you), but my computer most definitely does a lot for me (details provided
>on request).  I certainly use it for more than a game-playing platform.

Most people make very little use of a computer's capabilities. Of course 
programmers are an exception, but they are small in number. As far as I can
tell Communications, Word Processing, Speadsheets, Painting at an elementary
level and playing games is what most people use their PC's for. Of course
you have the CAD people, etc...But that's not the home market.
>
>If you're saying that many people don't use a computer productively, I can't
>argue with that.  But if you're saying that computers really don't/can't do
>much for people, I can and will argue with that.

I'm saying both. There are been virtually no increase in productivity, even
in business, even though there are millions of computers out there. Standards
are a problem, communication a hassle, people are often basically using the
equivalent of CP/M computers. These are opinions based on where I've
worked, now work, coming in contact with lot's of people consulting and
teaching and research, etc...Of course at the research level in many
areas it's a different matter. If you really want to see  waste of resources
look at what schools are doing with PC's and Mac's.
>
>> I'd rather see
>> CDTV/CD-I than the game consoles, but these are still expensive. The retail
>> cost of video games is very high, although the game quality is far  better
>> than games found on most computer platforms (exclusing the Amiga, etc../but
>> certainly the PC and Mac rarely have good games).
>
>This is a tired old cliche that is no longer true.  When was the last time
>you purchased a PC game?  When was the last time you really investigated the
>current state of the art in PC games?  The new PC games in nearly every cate-
>gory are equal or superior to games on every other platform.  The one excep-
>tion is arcade-style games where game consoles and the Amiga still have the
>edge.

Well I've purchased several PC games over the past little while. Most have 
been worthless. Lemmings is a good example. It's pathetic on the PC. Much
better on CDTV and the SNES. Mixed up Fairy Tales is good as is KQ5 on
CD-ROM (which will move to the game CD-ROM players in the fall). Windows
is a waste. OS/2 is nice, but no software. The supported sound for the 
vast number of games is still the SB in AdLib emulation but possibly using
the SB's DAC. Cartooners on the PC, MathCad, Norton Desktop for Windows,
Links, Barney Bear series, Desqview, etc...I've got access to hundreds of
pieces of sw where I work. It's very rare that I find any PC software that
doesn't have a nicer approach elsewhere. The PC is full of useless
utilities. One is forever buying this, that, etc...just to gain a few
extra bytes, tune up Windows, etc...
 
I see only 2 bright lights: OS/2 and MPC's and neither is doing great.
>
>If all a user wants to do is play games, then a game console is a good choice.
>On the other hand, a computer, be it Amiga, Macintosh, or IBM clone, can
>give you access to DTP, word processing, home finances management, etc., 
>while still providing you access to terrific games.

The games on the game consoles are better, will be even better when SNES comes
out with its CD-I unit, etc...DTP is of no use to me. Home finances can be
done with a calculator. PC games (and I've tried a lot recently) quite 
frankly are poor ( with exceptions, such as many from Sierra). Word processing
can be done on a terminal,but in any case that's not a good enough reason for
me to get a micro. The only platform that you've mentioned that is appealing
to me is the Amiga. The Mac and PC worlds will force you into a 2cond
mortgage with their upgrades every 3 months.
>
>> Don't forget you can buy 
>> used video games, trade them, etc...The cost is not much higher than the
>> outrageous prices charhed by computer game distributors in most cases. Of
>> course, few people actually pay for computer games which is why they own 
>> computers in the first place. This will change rapidly over the next few 
>> years.
>
>"Few people actually pay for computer games"?  And that's "why they own com-
>puters in the first place"?  What nonsense.  If that were the case, nobody
>would be in the computer game business and companies like Electronic Arts,
>Lucas, Sierra, etc. would be going out of business instead of thriving.

There are more people who use games they don't pay for than those that do.
EA, Lucas, Sierra, etc...are all porting their programs over to game 
consoles.
 
The number one reason for people owning PC's at home is to play games, unless
they are running a business. That is not nonsense. It's what every poll I've
seen on the subject says. Games and eduware. that's it.
>
>You've stated before that you thought that games would move off the computer
>platforms over the next couple of years, but you've declined to state your
>reasoning and declined to post any evidence.

The reasons aren't complicated. There are only 2 platforms left with a strong
game presence- the Amiga and the PC. There are a finite number of programmers.
Developers are starting to leave the Amiga in order to write their stuff to
the game consoles which are simply more cost effective than computers. Let's
see: $99 for a SNES and $200 roughly for the CD-ROM addon. Most people have
a 21" colour TV. So for $300 you are ready for a great gaming experience.
That kind of money people can afford, especially when they have the added
benefit of CD-I, Kodak Photo CD's, etc...for so little. And they can rent
lot's of titles ( not just games incidentally). There is virtually no
piracy involved. The Amiga and PC on the other hand suffer greatly from
piracy. Apart from a few titles, few games sell well. The initial run for
the SNES CD-ROM will be around 300k/month. Game developers are not fools.
Why waste time developing stuff with a marginal return when you can be 
virtually assured of a pirate free market? The developers left on PC's and
Mac's already have their hands full dealing with the changing OS's. It's
not as though there is an unlimited supply. Games will continue to come out
for the PC due to its numbers. But I highly doubt these will be high quality
games, except possibly for MPC's ( and there are few of those). The 2 year 
estimate was one given to me by several people in the industry. There will
always be games on micros. It's just that the game market is shifting to
where the real numbers are, especially given that these game consoles are now
very powerful.

In any case,if you enjoy you games on the PC don't worry, you'll see more of
the same. Wonder when you'll get to see lot's of Window's commercial games.
>
>>>It makes a console attractive.
>> 
>> For developers, yes which is why they are moving off the pirate ridden PC
>> and Amiga platforms. The basic fact is that few people pay for software.
>> And those that do get saddled with copy protected junk.
>
>Forgive me for saying this, but I think you are out of touch with reality.
>Either that, or the computer market in Canada differs markedly from the com-
>puter market in the US.  "Few people pay for software"?  Can you provide any
>evidence to back up this startling claim?  As for copy protection, that has
>all but disappeared from productivity software on the IBM platform and has
>disappeared from many games as well.  For example, many of the latest
>releases from Sierra are not copy protected.

I was referring to the Amiga and copy protection. Copy protection still
exist on the PC. Try the TreeHouse, PlayRoom, Disney software, etc...
Actually the Treehouse and the Learning Company's products are probably
the only good reasons for getting a PC at this time[ as well as KidPix...].
I must tell you that I did not like the PC when I first got one many years
ago and I still don't even with quite a nice MPC system, and lot's of sw.
The Amiga, NeXT,etc...are far more appealing. I do admit to liking OS/2.

There's nothing startling about the statement that few people actually use
their own money to buy software. It's not an innovative statement. It's
well known.
>
>Finally, "junk"?  How much software have you investigated/purchased in the
>past year?  Give me some evidence; provide some examples, please.

What do you want? Receipts? I can assure you that I have access to virtually
any PC program I care to try. Most aren't worth the money.
 
Philip McDunnough
philip@utstat.toronto.edu

Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy