From: indu@iss700.Columbia.NCR.COM ()
Subject: Re: Marital Status (definition of Hindu)
Originator: indu@iss700
Organization: NCR Corp, E&M-Columbia, Columbia, SC
Date: Tue, 10 Nov 92 19:42:30 GMT


ahmed-shakil@cs.yale.edu writes:
>In .. indu@iss700.Columbia.NCR.COM () writes:

>> Actually speaking HINDU is  an  UMBRELLA  like  phenomena.  As  a
>> matter  of  fact,  there  is  no  definition  of  Hindu either In
>This is confusing.  You appear to be equating Hinduism with some form
>of Indian nationalism.  What are "Indian values?"  Are they not

 Not exactly nationalism. But being faithful to all that has given 
 us this vision. If I were born in India it  would equate to Indian 
 nationalism. If I were born else where, then it  means Viewing these with 
 respect and Honor. 

>dependent to some extent on the faith which a person practices?  If
>so, then what is "Indian" about them?  More importantly, are you
>implying that *any* Hindu has to believe in Indian customs and values,

 I am not just implying,  but saying it CLEARLY. The HINDU values are NOT 
 faith dependant. Like for example, respecting  woman, respecting cow, 
 ones freedom of faith in pursuing the Ultimate truth (MOKSHA), ones duties
 (not only Religious, but towards society, Man kind etc,). So even whether
 one is Vaishnavite or Shivite or an Athiest if he subscribes to these 
 he is a HINDU.  The Indian-ness is attributed to them because,
 these VALUES were practiced by Indians initially.
  
>has to believe in BHARAT, its people and its "culture?" (I put this in
>quotes because I question its existence as a single entity)  If so,
>then a Canadian Eskimo who decides to become a Hindu faces a dilemma
>unless he fully subscribes to this Indian nationalism and starts
>believing in BHARAT?  This seems like a rather geographical
>interpretation of the deeper meanings of the religion, one which I am
>hearing for the first time...  I would be interested in hearing
>whether other Hindus agree with Indu's views on this.

   A canadian Eskimo can also become Hindu. He can remain a Hindu, and 
   remain committed to integrity of Bharat. I DO NOT KNOW WHERE YOU FIND
   CONTRADICTION IN THESE. How will his Canadian interests clash with his 
   Hindu interests of "sarve jana sukhino bhavanthu, sarve  santhu .." ? 

   As for your hearing for the first time this interpretation, HOW can I be 
   held responsible. As for Hinduism being coinsidered as a religion, that 
   shows that you did not have the right orientation from where-ever you learnt 
   (in case you had) Hinduism. The basic mistake most of the contemporary 
   writers make is to consider HINDUism as a religion. HINDUISM 
   is NOT A RELIGION. It is a way of life.  There are religions with in 
   Hinduism, which  lead this way  of life, with their RELIGIOUS variations. 

>> (I think Islam and Christianity  were  some  of  those  religions
>> which  rejected  these.  Especially  Islam. That is why, today we
>> find Islam in such a turmoil.  Where as Hindu  society  has  with
>> stood many attcks on itself from all possible corners, even after
>> THOUSANDS OF YEARS - my Indian history knowledge itself goes back
>> to 5000B.C.)

   (I do not have my original post. So I cannot recollect the EXACT situation
   and context these have  been said. I would  be  grateful to YOU if you 
   could email me the original post. Thanks in Advance. Any way I will try 
   to answere you,  to the extent I can recall.)

>A couple of questions: First, I would like to see justification for
>why you find it necessary to say "Especially Islam" in this context.
>What aspects of Islam distinguish it from Christianity in this
>context.

   I said, especially Islam because - ISLAM rules out every thing else. 
   It does not accept the multiple views and beliefs which makes it diffucult
   for others to accept. And the more important point is, IT OVER RIDES others
   right. I do not know what is written in Books, but in action it has happened
   and been happening  in the  name of Islam.

   Though Christianity too will  not accept other views, it lets others remain.
   And tries to convert them by passive  means, (rather than VIOLENT ISLAMIC
   CRUSADE type of stuff). So others who do not support Christainity, have
   the facility to continue in their faith .  

   This forcible suppression of third party views by Islam, makes it  more
   "special".

>Second, I would request you to elaborate on what you mean by saying
>"today we find Islam in such a turmoil."  I was not aware that Islam
>is in turmoil and would be very interested in hearing what you have to
>say.

   Islam in turmoil, is not just my view. People are saying that too.
   Even you can find the turmoil in all the Islamic countries.  As for 
   those countries which remain peaceful now (like Saudi Arabia etc,) it 
   is still their PETROL which is saving them.  The effect of  Islam is, 
   it has rejected every other faith and cannot co-exist with others.
   The Islam recognised religions have a "Secondary status". 

   So, you are slowly finding these Bunch of Islamic countries getting 
   excluded from the world body. This may not appear immediately, but 
   I foresee that. Their inclusion into WORLD BODY today is based on the PETRO
   dollars.  Today Somalia is one of the Examples of those Islamic states
   where the Cushion of Petro dollars is not available.

>Third, in stating that "Hindu society has withstood many attacks on
>itself," you imply that the other two religions have not.  What
>attacks on Islam have caused Islam to change, and how has that
>affected Islam?

   How do I know where and How Islam  has changed, and who has caused it.
   By the way, Has Islam changed? If yes, then  I would like to more in detail 
   about that.

>-- Shakil Ahmed
-Indu.
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|  My  views expressed above are made on a PERSONAL basis              |
|  No Group or  Organization   can be held responsible                 |
|                                ( for those in quest of truth .......)|
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