From: ryyti@jyu.fi (Jarmo Ryyti)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.turkish,talk.politics.mideast,talk.politics.soviet,soc.culture.soviet,soc.culture.greek,soc.culture.europe
Subject: Re: No Wonder The Greek Economy Is In Shambles, 'Skartsis.'
Date: 8 Apr 92 10:51:38 GMT
Organization: University of Jyvaskyla, Finland

In article <1992Apr7.100849.14166@cns.umist.ac.uk> ko@cns.umist.ac.uk (Kutluk Ozguven) writes:
>ryyti@jyu.fi (Jarmo Ryyti) writes:
>
>>In article <9204040359.A9076eJ@anadolu.michigan.com> han@anadolu.michigan.com (hasan.b.mutlu) writes:
>>>
>>>
>>><1992Apr2.170015.19423@wuche2.wustl.edu>
>>>ls0823@wuche1.wustl.edu
>>>
>>>>Great, now I have to answer that!
>>>
>>>
>>>Source: 'World Development Report: 1990'
>>>
>>>	"Data On The Turkish Economy"
>>>
>>>1. Average annual growth rate of GNP per capita: 9.6%
>>>2. Average annual energy production growth rate: 8.9%
>>>3. Share of Education: 18.1%
>>>4. Share of Economic Services: 22.1%
>>>5. Average annual growth rate of exports: 15.3%
>>>6. Average annual growth rate of imports: 10.3%
>>>7. Share of 0-14 years old in population: 35.4%
>>>8. Share of 15-64 years old in population: 60.3%
>>>9. Crude birth rate per thousand population: 30
>>>10. Crude death rate per thousand population: 8
>>>11. Average annual growth rate of urban population: 3.4% 
>>>12. Urban population as a share of total population: 47%
>>>13. Government budget deficit as share of GNP: -4.0%
>>>14. Energy consumption per capita: 822 kg. of oil equivalent.
>>>15. Life expectancy at birth: 64 years
>>>16. ...
>>>
>>>Source: 'United Nations, Human Development Report,' 1990.
>>>
>>>Annual Output Per Person in Dollars Adjusted to Purchasing Power
>>>Parity: Turkiye, Greece and Chile are in the same category. That
>>>is, $3,000 - $5,999. 
>>>
>>>Source: 'International Economics: Theory and Policy' by Paul R.
>>>        Krugman and Maurice Obstfeld, Harper Collins Publishers,
>>>        1991, (second edition).
>>>
>>>In terms of 'Annual Output Per Person in Dollars Adjusted to 
>
>>Jarmo Ryyti writes,
>
>>To compare sconimics of two cuntries liek Turkey and Creece is interesting
>>but may be difficult.
>>But how  about illiteracy? I have an impression that there in Turkey
>>millons of people in Turkey who cannot read and write are illiterates.
>>Especially Turkish women are very poorly educated and the rate of illiteracy
>>is very high among them. Does these figures give any empression of the
>>level of the country? Who have figures regarding litaracy rates in Turkey
>>among the men and women and the same figures from Creece.
>>Finland has had more than one hundred years 100 % literacy rate among the
>>adults. What about turkish standards? Especially women's?
>>jarmo ryyti
>>finlandiya
>
>
>I agree with you completely that statistics are not the
>only criteria that shows the level of a country. But I
>think this argument is not on your side. Finland is 
>wonderful in every statistics, almost a paradise. But
>it is hardly so in fact, as people tell. They say, the
>Finns have no means to socialize other than heavy drinking,
>they say the climate is awful, people are down, people
>commit suicide much more than bad-statistics countries.
>If one cannot eat decent food, cannot feel the warmth of 
>friendship, have the fear his children will be gay next day,
>and the intention to commit suicide.... why should one
>care about the wonderful % 100 rate of literacy and speaking
>English. I think in those aspects "poor" Turks are better
>than other people think of them. 
>
>Civilization is not merely statistics.
>
>Regards
>
>Kutluk

Dear Kutluk,
You are absolutely right. I in fact wanted to turn the focus of discussion
aways a bit from the material things. I also think that the statistics 
does not tell the truth. How the situation in Finland and Scandinavia it
is exactly you mention, people commit in the middle of all wealth suicides
If you have a refrigator it does not make you happy.
I did for years ago a little survey about this bacause I suspect that behind
the statistics lies an other truth. So I compared other things than
national income or purchase parity. Things like suicide rates, length of
living, birth rates, infant mortality, criminality and indeed
 in many contries which
seemed in the statistics to be "poor" were not that when you compare
things that way. I also do not think that a low birth rate means that a
country is rich somehow, just the contrary it means that people do not
trust for the future and are not happy. And in this sence many 
"rich" countries
appear to be less wealthy. May be because it is easier to count refrigators
and tv-set than security,happiness, optimism, human relations the statistics
are made to measure material things. Who things for instance that a high
abortion rate means that a country is very advanced has a high standard of living, in this sence Skandinavia
had to be very "happy and properous"
Thanks for the comment,
jarmo ryyti
finlandiya