HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: mjw@Xenon.Stanford.EDU (Michael Wolverton)
Subject: Re: AL Cy Young update (was Re: Clemens update please)
Organization: Computer Science Department, Stanford University.
Date: Tue, 15 Sep 1992 22:01:07 GMT

In article <6406@transfer.stratus.com> dswartz@sw.stratus.com (Dan Swartzendruber) writes:
>I disagree.  I've seen far too many managers (particularly those who manage
>the Rocket) who seem to follow the principle of "Well, gee.  I know he was
>getting hammered, but he's my ace, so if he can't get them out, no one can."
>In every one of the games I remember where Clemens gave up 9+ runs, it was
>obvious in the first inning or two that he either had nothing or had something
>wrong with him.  This didn't stop his manager from leaving him in for 6 or more
>innings.  This was especially annoying when a typical runs/innings line would
>look like this:
>
> 1  2  3  4  5  6  7  8  9
> 1  0  2  0  2  4  x  x  x

A few things:

1. I'm surprised that Clemens has given up 9 runs in a game more than
   once in his career.  How many times has this happened?

2. I actually kind of like this managerial strategy.  *Provided* of
   course that the pitcher isn't injured and that you're not
   overpitching him.  I mean, why not leave Clemens in and hope he
   discovers his form (likely) instead of throwing some worthless
   middle reliever out there?  At the very least, you make sure
   that Clemens gets his 80-100 pitches in and he's ready for his
   next start.

3. Actually, it sounds like you and I are talking about basically
   the same strategy -- the manager leaves Clemens in until the game
   is pretty much decided one way or another (i.e., until he gives
   up runs 6, 7, 8, and 9).  This tends to increase the number of
   decisions he gets.

-Michael
-- 
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
Michael Wolverton                       "Is that clear?"
mjw@cs.stanford.edu                     "No, but it's consistent!"
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
From: nss3@kimbark.uchicago.edu (Noel Steere)
Subject: Re: Famous Netters
Reply-To: nss3@midway.uchicago.edu
Organization: University of Chicago Computing Organizations
Distribution: na
Date: Fri, 4 Sep 1992 22:02:51 GMT

In article <lsmith.715552868@nano> lsmith@nano.cs.umn.edu (Lance "Squiddie" Smith) writes:
>Quiz time:
>
>What r.s.bb. regular's name appears in the latest issue of The Thang?

Gosh, this is becoming even bigger than when I got published in
Penthouse! :-)

Seriously, I'm surprised more people from the Net haven't gotten their
names in: it's McWeekly's quarter (1-800 number), and the lines never
seem to be busy.  I figure we can blitz them with phone calls when
they ask "Should Cecil Fielder get the MVP this year?"

Incidentally, they didn't publish my little diatribe on teams showing
more interest in Puckett than Bonds.

Noel Steere                  |...of the Dave Rossing fan club
GM/Manager, New York Knights |Knights' Run Total: 467 Runs in 93 games
Internet Baseball League     |Projected Season Total: 813  Target: 1000!
nss3@midway.uchicago.edu     |HECTOR VILLANUEVA FOR PRESIDENT
                             |(Heck, the Cubs sure aren't using him!)
Make outs, not walks!        |OMAR VIZQUEL FOR VICE-PRESIDENT
(well, Joe *said* I said it!)|(Or at least a Gold Glove!) [Woof!]
From: spira@panix.com (Greg "Sarcasm Is A Way Of Life" Spira)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
Subject: Re: Times on Base: all-time records and Frank Thomas
Date: 9 Sep 92 06:05:06 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: Boo!

In <1992Sep8.191849.3728@menudo.uh.edu> chee1l5@jetson.uh.edu (Sam Lane) writes:

>Getting hit with a pitch intentionally is extremely stupid. The probability of getting injured and being
>out of the lineup for weeks or months (thus hurting your team), far outweighs the benefit of 
>reaching base a few more times.  There was a rash of people injured earlier this year while being hit
>by pitches, Larkin comes to mind immediately.  Are you saying you think a team would perform
>better if the players were coached to be hit by pitches rather than avoid them ? 

I think it depends how you get hit by pitches.  Don Baylor got hit by pitches
a lot and never really got hurt.  Players who get hurt when they are hit 
get hurt because they are surprised and don't move their most susceptible
(to injury) body parts away.  

If you look over baseball history, I think you'll find that hitters with
high HBP totals didn't get hurt acheiving those totals.

Greg   
-- 
  spira@panix.com       "The one-O delivery to Fisk.  He swings.  Long drive,  
 cmcl2!panix!spira      left field!  If it stays fair, it's gone!  Home Run!"  
158-17 Riverside Dr.                     Ned Martin, 10/22/75   
Whitestone NY 11357          (Insert your favorite baseball moment here)
From: twhite@mozart.amd.com (Tom White)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
Subject: Pitchers pinch-hitting
Date: 8 Sep 92 04:52:36 GMT
Organization: Advanced Micro Devices, Inc.; Austin, Texas

Against the Cubs last week, the Padres had reliever Randy Myers
pinch-hit for the current pitcher.  Myers went up there with every
intention of laying down a sac bunt.  I don't recall what he did.

Perfectly normal strategy.

But isn't this September?  When the bench has extra kids sitting around?
No matter how good a bunter Myers may be, wouldn't it be a *little* better
to have a young hitter go up there and try for the safety?

Have the Padres, fearing losing a desirable prospect in the expansion 
draft, called up NO ONE?  Explain this one to me.  Is it just Riddoch
being dumb?



--
 Thomas White          | Gimme |  
 Austin, Texas         | Three |  When you say words a lot 
 (with the ankle cast) | Steps |  they don't mean anything. 
 twhite@mozart.amd.com |       |                -- Del
From: demers@cs.ucsd.edu (David DeMers)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
Subject: Re: Dodgers Outdo Themselves -- Seven Errors!
Date: 13 Sep 92 04:43:18 GMT
Organization: =CSE Dept., U.C. San Diego

In article <18svsjINNe3b@mizar.usc.edu> pcaster@mizar.usc.edu (Dodger) writes:
>The Dodgers made a team high 7 errors last night, 

At Jack Murphy, they have occasional "NL Notes" on the board.
Last night they put up "The Dodgers played the 8th inning
without committing an error".  Talk about no respect...

-- 
Dave DeMers			 ddemers@UCSD   demers@cs.ucsd.edu
Computer Science & Engineering	C-014		demers%cs@ucsd.bitnet
UC San Diego					...!ucsd!cs!demers
La Jolla, CA 92093-0114	(619) 534-0688, or -8187, FAX: (619) 534-7029
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
From: cs902060@ariel.yorku.ca (GEOFFREY E DIAS)
Subject: Re: Magic Numbers Explanation...
Organization: York University, Toronto, Canada
Date: Sat, 12 Sep 1992 03:10:14 GMT

In article <5253@news.duke.edu> daniel@acpub.duke.edu (Daniel Crawford) writes:
>
>I would greatly appreciate it if someone out there could please explain
>the magic numbers that come so often into discussion this time of year.
>What is the exact definition of the magic number?
>

	The magic number is the sum of wins by the first place team
and the losses of the second place team needed in order to clinch a division
title. When the number reaches 0, the pennant race is over.

	It's calculated as follows:

	163 - (# losses of 2nd place) - (# wins 1st place)
From: rsmith@strobe.ATC.Olivetti.Com (Russ Smith)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
Subject: Re: Tom House (was Re: Jose Canseco to Texas...)
Date: 8 Sep 92 16:05:48 GMT

In article <5518@blue.cis.pitt.edu.UUCP>, psg+@pitt.edu (Paul S Galvanek) writes:
> I vaugely remember some announcers talking not long ago about a program
> that the Rangers pitching coaches were using that involved the use of a
> football.
> 
> From what I was able to gather the coaches were having the players "pitch"
> a football as they would a baseball, the idea being to increase wind resistance
> and by doing so increase arm strength.  The broadcasters, and I wish I could
> remember who they were, were extremely critical of this idea.  They pointed to
> it as the primary fiactor in the generally porr condition of the arms of the 
> Ranger pitchers.  They also quoted some of the Ranger pitchers as saying they 
> felt the program a horrible idea and a threat to their careers.


House uses the football for mechanics. He claims that in order to make
a football spiral, you have to use essentially the same mechanics necessary
to properly throw a baseball, so he uses footballs as a practice method.
From what I've read the pitchers actually like it because they have fun
with it and almost forget its training.

I think what you were thinking was House's short term experiment with what
he referred to as "underloading". He got a regulation size and shape baseball
that weighed LESS than a standard ball. He had pitchers throw this instead
of a real ball. The theory was that the lighter ball would increase arm 
speed and that through muscle memory, his pitchers arm speed would increase
even when they switched back to the normal ball. This is of course directly 
opposite of standard training where you add weight(like donuts on bats in
the on deck circle) to make the real item feel lighter.

Apparently the pitchers didn't like underloading at all, and some complained
that it hurt their arms so House dropped the idea. I'm not sure how much
lighter the ball was, but anybody who has ever tried throwing a tennis 
ball really hard will understand the pitchers feelings. You keep throwing
harder, but the ball is too light to go as fast as you want, and you hurt
your arm in the process.



Russ Smith
*******************************************************************************
The amount of time spent brushing and flossing your teeth is inversely
proportional to how recent your last dental appointment was.
********************************************************************************




From: mjs@hpfcso.FC.HP.COM (Marc Sabatella)
Date: Tue, 8 Sep 1992 19:58:35 GMT
Subject: Re: A's Lineup!
Organization: Hewlett-Packard, Fort Collins, CO, USA
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball

In rec.sport.baseball, usr3@faultln.UUCP writes:

> > RFJose Canseco
> 
> Well, change this to somebody else!  We got rid of Jose!  FINALLY!  The guy
> was a good player and all, but boy he sure was a jerk!  I think if he would
> have not been so cocky, he could have been liked by the fans.  

He was liked by plently of fans despite his cockiness.

> Juan Gonzales in right?

You mean Ruben Sierra.

> awesome!
> ...
> awesome
> ...
> Awesome!!!!!<-

Tee-hee - no offense intended, but this reminds of a time when I got in a nasty
net argument with someone over something, and he acted so childish, I wondered
aloud, "since when do 8-year olds get net access"?, to which he responded "I am
ten, not eight!" or something to that effect.  Touche!  I never did find out if
he was serious or not...

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Marc "Dave" Sabatella		Disclaimer: OPS is not the One True Statistic
marc@hpmonk.fc.hp.com		that makes all others obsolete
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Mmmm - po-ta-to chips!" - John Stuart Mill
From: z_copeab@ccsvax.sfasu.edu
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
Subject: Re: <None>
Date: 13 Sep 92 16:49:14 CST
Distribution: world
Organization: Stephen F. Austin State University

In article <lb1n16INN7f8@appserv.Eng.Sun.COM>, str@maredsous.Eng.Sun.COM (Todd Rader) writes:
> In article 898@ccsvax.sfasu.edu, z_copeab@ccsvax.sfasu.edu () writes:
> %
> %	Yeah, I've noticed. Several people think that their views are the only
> %views, and wage the equivalent of a Crusade on the net whenever anyone dares
> %disagree with them. Not that I really care. I take baseball as entertainment,
> %not as some college statistics problem like many on this group do who try to
> %Enlighten us Heathens.
> %
> %Brandon Cope
> 
> Brandon, I think you have your chronology wrong.  From my newsfeed, this is
> how I've followed the debate:
> 
> <some "stathead">:  Cecil Fielder isn't much better than avarage.  He isn't even
>   the MVP of his team  Fryman, Phillips, Whitaker, and Tettleton are more
>   valuable.
>   
> <somebody pipes up>:  What??  You're crazy!  Look at all those RBI's.
> 
> <several "statheads>:  RBI's don't tell you much about value.
> 
> <several non-"statheads">:  Yes they do.
> 
> etc....
> 
> You tell me who is Enlightening the Heathens (TM):  the one(s) who opined
> originally, or the one(s) that posted arguments to the opinion(s) given?
> 
> -todd

	Not entirely fair, since I don't think RBIs mean much either. Not
because of statistical analysis, but common sense: the more runners in scoring
position, the more you can drive in. And a batter has little influence over how
many base runners are on when he comes up.

Brandon Cope


Brandon Cope
From: bc@campbell.Gwinnett.COM (Bob Campbell)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
Subject: Players-Turned-Actors
Date: 8 Sep 92 03:31:55 GMT
Organization: Suncrest, Mulberry & Fairlawns Frisbee Club


  On the subject of baseball player actors (in soap operas, no less),
  there is one who I am surprised was missed.

  John Berardino played Dr. Hardy on General Hospital for a zillion
  years.  He even showed up in an occassional wretched TV movie.
  Don't know if he ever popped up on the silver screen or not but
  he's one of those guys who prompts people to say "Oh, yeah, I've
  seen him before." when they see him.  Along the way, he popped
  up on 1950's TV shows getting beat up by Superman, Eliot Ness,
  and, probably, Matt Dillon.

  Don't know if he is actually still on the show or not because he
  is now 75 years old.

  He was a part-time shortstop from 1939-52 batting 3,028 times in
  912 games.  755 hits, 167 doubles, 23 triples, 36 HR, .249 BA.
  Stole 27 bases, too.

  The original poster of this thread was right.  There AREN'T many
  baseball player actors.  Berardino is probably the most successful
  DECENT player.  (That statement includes Bob Uecker & Chuck Connors).

  Not BAD for a surgeon! :-)

 |________________________|__________________________________________|
 | Bob Campbell           |                                          |
 | campbell@Gwinnett.COM  |                                          |
 |                        |                                          |
 | (MGW/CVS/Q34/CAE/ATL)  |                                          |
 |________________________|__________________________________________|
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
From: paula@koufax.cv.hp.com (Paul Andresen)
Subject: Re: Cal Eldred, ROY candidate?!
Organization: Hewlett-Packard Company, Corvallis, Oregon USA
Date: Fri, 11 Sep 1992 19:27:56 GMT

In article <BuF09E.B8K@mentor.cc.purdue.edu>, poutsmaj@mace.cc.purdue.edu (unknown) writes:
   
|> Actually, Peter Gammons has been harping Cal Eldred since early in the
|> season.  Chalk one up for the chinless wonder....

No, no, no. Peter Gammons does have a chin. It's lips that he lacks. 

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
              If you're really hip, the passing years will show.
                                           ......Tower Of Power

  paula@koufax.cv.hp.com   Paul Andresen  Hewlett-Packard  (503)-750-3511

    home: 3006 NW McKinley    Corvallis, OR 97330       (503)-752-8424
                            A SABR member since 1979
Xref: sparky rec.sport.baseball:27235 soc.culture.japan:8033
From: yajima@nttcom.ntt.jp (YAJIMA Hiroshi)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball,soc.culture.japan
Subject: Japan Central League
Date: 14 Sep 92 00:10:19 GMT
Distribution: rec
Organization: NTT Network Information Systems Labs. Musashino, Tokyo

Japan Central League Standing ( Through games on Sunday September 13th)

                     W   L   T   Pct.   GB
Hanshin Tigers      60  52   2  .536    --
Yakult Swallows     58  52   1  .527    1.0
Yomiuri Giants      60  55   0  .522    1.5
Hiroshima Carp      58  55   0  .513    2.5
Taiyo Whales        54  62   1  .466    8.0
Chunichi Dragons    50  64   0  .439   11.0

----------------
 Oh, no! I can't believe it!
 The Hanshin Tigers erased a 4-0 deficit on Sunday to edge the Yakult Swallows
5-4 for a come-from-behind sayonara victory in the 10th inning at Koshien 
Stadium.
 Yakult Swallows suffered its sixth straight loss while Hanshin Tigers won
their fourth straight game to regain their lead in the Central League for
the first time since July 25th.
 Hateful Yomiuri Giants' fourth straight loss at the Tokyo Dome is my sole 
consolation.

-------  Hiroshi
--

    |  / __  __/ __  __/ Hiroshi Yajima, 
  / | /     /       /    NTT Network Information Syatems Laboratories,
_/  _/    _/      _/     9 - 11 Midori-Cho 3-Chome Musashino-Shi,
                         Tokyo, 180 Japan,  E-MAIL: yajima@nttcom.ntt.jp
                         TEL: +81 422-59-4256	 FAX: +81 422-59-4254
From: kiviat@oasys.dt.navy.mil (Brian Kiviat)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
Subject: Re: <None>Words to live by
Date: 9 Sep 92 11:31:41 GMT
Reply-To: kiviat@oasys.dt.navy.mil (Brian Kiviat)
Organization: Carderock Division, NSWC, Bethesda, MD

In rec.sport.baseball, 91287041@ramsey.cs.laurentian.ca (Roger Maynard) writes:

 Some people on here do know what they are
 talking about but others only want to make sure that you think they know what
 they are talking about.  The trick is to sort them out...

The above statement is brilliant. Maynard for Commissioner
   O
   I\   Brian Kiviat (301)227-1833       Sometimes the truth is hidden,
   I \  kiviat@oasys.dt.navy.mil         Like a shadow in the darkness.
  /     David Taylor Model Basin                  -Master Po
   \___________________________
			     \\
From: mjs@hpfcso.FC.HP.COM (Marc Sabatella)
Date: Wed, 9 Sep 1992 22:24:29 GMT
Subject: Re: <None>
Organization: Hewlett-Packard, Fort Collins, CO, USA
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball

In rec.sport.baseball, z_copeab@ccsvax.sfasu.edu writes:

> 	Perhaps instead of RBI, something like 'percentage of runners driven in
> from scoring position' could be used

It's still not good enough.  Cecil may drive in 30% (I'm making this up), walk
5% of the time, and make an out the other 65% of the time.  Whereas Lou may
drive in only 25%, but walk 20% of the time, and only make outs 55% of the
time.  You can try to eyeball the two sets of numbers to decide which you like
better, but there is no guarantee you will come up with the right answer.  Your
gut may say "it's better to take the surer run Cecil gives you" , but this
might not in fact turn out to be the right answer.  In this particular case, a
simple simulation might tell you which leads to more runs in the long run.  But
how do you tell in general?  Simply looking at RBI% is not good enough.

The whole point of statistics like OPS or RC/27 or MLV or Linear Weights is
that they are already calibrated to make this determination - although in the
case of OPS or even RC/27, the calibration is mostly accidental.  But think
about it - we want to know not only how often he drove in runs, but how often
he didn't take away chances at scoring more (ie, make outs), in order to learn
his true worth to the team.  The first, rate of driving in runs, is almost
entirely dependent on SLG, and the latter, not making outs, is simply the
inverse of OBP.  If you really want to separate out "how well he did with
runners in scoring position" from "how well he did in general", fine, go ahead.
But don't get trapped into thinking the only important at bats are the ones
with runners on; obviously, you need to get the runners there in the first
place.  And - surprise, surprise - SLG and OBP tell you most of what you need
to know about how often a guy gets on, and how far on he puts himself.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Marc "Dave" Sabatella		Disclaimer: OPS is not the One True Statistic
marc@hpmonk.fc.hp.com		that makes all others obsolete
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Mmmm - po-ta-to chips!" - John Stuart Mill
From: csquared@coos.dartmouth.edu (C Squared)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
Subject: Re: PHILLIES 15-MAN PROTECTED LIST
Date: 7 Sep 92 18:33:51 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: Dartmouth College, Hanover, NH
Originator: csquared@coos.dartmouth.edu

In article <1992Sep7.163529.1480@cbnewsm.cb.att.com> jmd@cbnewsm.cb.att.com (joseph.m.dakes) writes:
>If you think you're having a problem, consider the problem the Phillies'
>front office is having.  They're the only team in baseball that doesn't
>have 15 guys who need to be protected.

WRONG!!  Check out the Red Sox protected list.

1) Roger Clemens
2) Joe Mooney (groundskeeper)

and that's IT!

C Squared                      |                Wait until next millenium
From: grabiner@math.harvard.edu (David Grabiner)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
Subject: Re: consistency stats
Date: 15 Sep 92 17:29:30 GMT
Organization: Harvard University Dept. of Mathematics
In-reply-to: thf2@ellis.uchicago.edu's message of 15 Sep 92 04:16:22 GMT

In article <1992Sep15.041622.2718@midway.uchicago.edu>, Citecheck Hell writes:

> In article <1992Sep15.025720.17243@news.iastate.edu> TW.N82@isumvs.iastate.edu (BOB.PEDERSEN) writes:
>>This is a listing of the total number of games behind
>>each team in baseball was at season's end from 1982-1991.  It
>>represents an attempt on my part to measure consistency in
>> recent years.

> Except the only thing you're measuring is relative win-lost record,
> with a penalty for whomping on the division by twenty games (cf. White
> Sox, 1983).

There is no penalty.  The White Sox didn't do any better in absolute
terms for winning the division by 20 games in 1983 than the Twins did
for winning it by two games in 1987, but in relative terms, they did,
because everyone else was 20 games or more behind in 1983, while nobody
was more that 10 games out in 1987.

The numbers posted are simply the difference between the number of games
won by the division champions in 1982-1991, minus the number won by the
individual teams in the same period, with half-games added for teams
which didn't play the same number of games.  The rankings within each
division thus correspond to absolute won-lost records.

--
David Grabiner, grabiner@zariski.harvard.edu
"We are sorry, but the number you have dialed is imaginary."
"Please rotate your phone 90 degrees and try again."
Disclaimer: I speak for no one and no one speaks for me.
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
From: 91287041@ramsey.cs.laurentian.ca (Roger Maynard)
Subject: Re: J. Gonzales All-time HR King
Organization: Dept. of Computer Science, Laurentian University, Sudbury, ON
Date: Sun, 13 Sep 1992 03:27:49 GMT

In <1992Sep13.015239.11653@newshost.anu.edu.au> gerry@macadam.mpce.mq.edu.au (Gerry Myerson) writes:

>I read somewhere that three ballplayers have had 40 HR seasons before 
>turning 23; Mel Ott, Joe DiMaggio, and Eddie Mathews. Nice company to keep, 
>but notice the absence of the names Aaron, Ruth, and Mays. 

>Gerry Myerson

Mays had military service the year he was 22.  The next year he came back
and hit 41.

rm

-- 
roger maynard                    
91287041@ramsey.cs.laurentian.ca 
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball