HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: mikeh@starnine.com (Mike Haas)
Subject: Re: The piracy argument to end all arguments....
Date: Tue, 24 Nov 1992 04:17:53 GMT
Organization: StarNine Technologies, Inc.

In article <torban.721901669@csuvax1> torban@csuvax1.csu.murdoch.edu.au (Torban Bennett) writes:

The following quote was attributed to me, but 's not mine, man!

>>Not to join either side here, but I bet many of the "honest" people on the
>>net here have a copy of an audio cassette, or a CD, or have copied pages
>>from a book w/o authorization....it's called hippocracy, and it's far more
>>rampant than the piracy of software...but...back to the subject.
>
>Back to the serious stuff...
>....and what about videoing stuff from TV?
>
>Sure, this thing goes on in peoples houses everywhere, why do you think
>blank video and audio cassettes (as well as disks) sell so much.  The point
>is however, that despite the _rampant_ disregard for copyright here, the
>volume of sales is still huge!  
>There are two main reasons for this, firstly the sheer
>number of people that listen to music, compared to those that are interested
>in computers.  2nd (and this is related) the price per unit of music is so
>low.
>The average highschool kid can buy a 'single' practically every week, and can
>easily afford a CD in 3 or 4.  Software is so much more expensive, $AU80
>is just way out of the price range of any school kid.
>
>I know this may look like I'm justifying piracy. I'm not!  I'm pointing out
>why Software piracy is so more destructive than your common garden variety.
>If Madonna's new CD is priated by everyone in a school, she's not really
>going to care, she's still selling MILLIONS all over the world.  A piece of
>software OTOH, sells in much smaller numbers so the effects are far greater.

Also, that's exactly why it has to be more expensive, because the
volume is so low.  Even the best selling games will not equal sales
of that sluts CD.

Pirates that try to use this "...boo..hoo... it's s-o-o-o expensive"
argument don't care about facts, though.  They are concerned only
with themselves... they KNOW they're doing the wrong thing, and if they
can refute their own concience, they can refute any post on usenag.


Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy,comp.sys.amiga.graphics
From: rge@helix.nih.gov (roger erickson)
Subject: summer student with Amiga programming skills needed
Organization: National Institutes of Health, Bethesda
Distribution: na
Date: Mon, 23 Nov 1992 20:06:56 GMT

Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
From: aramsey@ugly.UVic.CA (Aaron  Ramsey)
Subject: Re: How much of the old OCS stuff will break on AGA machines?
Organization: University of Victoria, Victoria, BC, Canada
Date: Thu, 19 Nov 92 19:48:18 GMT

In article <37148@cbmvax.commodore.com> grr@cbmvax.commodore.com (George Robbins) writes:
>
>In many cases, it's just the same old NIH crap code for copy protection,
>DIY disk access routines and poorly though out memory sizing routines that
>die, not the graphics code.

This brings to mind something that I've been wondering about... with
commodore not realeasing the hardware specs, etc.... and advocating using
the system libraries etc rather than hitting the hardware, where exactly
does that leave the games makers who protect their games with crazy
disk-thrashing copy protection? Are they still going to be able to do this?
If they do, their games won't work on newer machines I assume... Does this
mean that everybody will be forced to go to code-wheel or dongle type 
protections? I guess it naturally follows that they might as well make
their stuff harddrive installable then as well.... a bonus for us! But 
then again, maybe even more games companies will shy away from the amiga
because they feel that it makes it easier to pirate their stuff....
I dunno, anybody else have any thoughts on the matter?
(Jeez... who am I kidding! This is advocacy... anybody able to type with
one finger will have a thought, and might just post!  8-)   )

>-- 
>George Robbins - now working for,     work:   to be avoided at all costs...
>but no way officially representing:   uucp:   {uunet|pyramid|rutgers}!cbmvax!grr
>Commodore, Engineering Department     domain: grr@cbmvax.commodore.com

-Aaron Ramsey          aramsey@ugly.uvic.ca

Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
From: etxtsg@solsta.ericsson.se (Thomas Grennefors  TX/DKF)
Subject: Re: Amiga or Messy-DOS
Organization: Ericsson
Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1992 12:25:51 GMT

ggg@kepler.unh.edu (Gregory G Greene) writes:

>	Not all clones are pieces of junk as you imply.  There are some very
>   reliable clones out there that are high quality.  My Gateway 2K 486 has
>   never had a single problem.  Dell PC's are very nice also.  Commodore is
>   not exactly perfect when it comes to reliability either.  My A500 had
>   many problems, including bad chips, bad floppy drive, bad keyboard, and
>   a 2002 monitor that was terrible.  I knew someone that had a A3000 with
>   similar problems, so I wouldn't say that the Amiga was more reliable then
>   PC clones.

And you can of course by a commodore PC :-)
I know several people who have had problems with their 500. I have had problems
with my floppy disk, and several problems with my hard disk. A friend of mine
have had problems with his keyboard. None of the people i know that have PC have
had problems with their PC:s.

>	No one is forcing you to get it.  Take a look at alternatives like
>   OS2 2.0, desqview, UNIX.  

Yes, unix is a viable option on a PC. Doesn't OS2 requires hoards of
memory to run.

>	My experience with my Amiga and my PC tells me otherwise.  I'm not
>   giving up on the Amiga though, I'm hoping that the new AGA machines are
>   built a heck of a lot better then previous Amigas I have used.

Even if i by a PC i will keep my Amiga to run some recreational software
that you cannot get for a PC.

--

Thomas Grennefors         ! What is the airspeed velocity of an unladen swallow?
Ericsson Telecom,Karlstad ! What do you mean, an African or a European swallow?
etxtsg@solsta.ericsson.se ! Well...I don't know...AAAAARRRRRRRRRRRRRGGGGGHHHH!!!
From:  (Spike)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
Subject: $2000 A500 config
Date: 17 Nov 92 18:46:32 GMT
Followup-To: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
Organization: GE Power Generation

This is sort of an exercise in the absurd, but I amuse myself. 
People have been talking about comparison-shopping the 
clones with the A500, and making generalizations re:
price.

When I got the new AmigaWorld the other day, I thought
it would be entertaining to see what kind of beefed-up
A500 you could build for about the price of a high-end 486
or a low-end 386 - I think this is still around $2000 (from
a reputable dealer, anyway :-). This is what I came up with:

A500: $300 from Tenex. This is a bit of a deceit, however,
 as you also need:

512K RAM expansion w/clock chip: $50 (who ever heard 
of a machine w/out a clock?)

A530 Accelerator: $1100 from GVP. This swell box  is
costly, but look what you get:
 - 40 mhz accelerated proc. speed
 - 120 MB HD w/ 11 ms access.
 - SCSI controller
 - Ram expansion bus
 - Mini-slot (for PC emulator et al)
 - Chip slot for math coprocessor

8 MB RAM in 1-meg SIMMs: $320 from GVP (Don't 
know if the recent RAM crunch affects this, though)

1084 Monitor: $300.

The grand total for this package: $2070. For this,
you get an Amiga w/ 9 MB RAM and 120MB HD 
running at 40 mhz.

For added shits and giggles, I'd throw in:

+$400 or so for a Multisync monitor and flicker-
fixer. This would require cracking the case, though,
I think.

+$80 for 2.04 chipset and software upgrade.

Spike
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
From: skip@tacky.cs.olemiss.edu (Skip Sauls)
Subject: Re: PIRACY
Keywords: semprini, spam, ni, naughty bits
Organization: University of Mississippi, Dept. of Computer Science
Date: Mon, 16 Nov 1992 23:13:20 GMT

In article <1992Nov16.194025.13177@news.uit.no> espensk@stud.cs.uit.no (Espen Skoglund) writes:
>Hey, who would want to buy a computer if he/she had to spend $200 for every
>program they wanted to purchase? I wouldn't.

Then don't buy a computer.  There is not much that is free in this world and
most folks have come to this realization.  The fact that you and a few other
ignorant sons of bitches have not is a sad reminder that the human race is 
really rather pitiful.
 
> /--------------------------------------------------------------------------\ 
>(  10 rem *** Nice program! ***            |  Letters: abcdefghijklmnopq    )
> ) 20 print"Espen Skoglund is my name. ";  |           rstuwxyzABCDEFGHI   (
>(  30 goto 20                              |           JKLMNOPQRSTUVWXYZ    )
> \--------------------------------------------------------------------------/

What a complete tool you are.  Not only is your .sig one of the most stupid
that I've seen in quite some time, your program is a piece of crap.  You would
be doing everyone a favor by staying out of a computer related profession.

How old are you?  12?  15?  Whose account did you hack into?  

Skip Sauls, Amiga Advocate and Pirate Basher
skip@tacky.cs.olemiss.edu

Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
From: rittle@supra.comm.mot.com (Loren James Rittle)
Subject: Re: Mike Meyer vs. AMOS
Organization: Land Mobile Products Sector, Motorola Inc.
Date: Mon, 16 Nov 1992 22:55:57 GMT
Keywords: n

>>A)  People who really like Unix boxes. The Amiga isn't quite as good as a

>>B) Ex 8-bitters (C64, Atari800, etc). This group was attracted to the Amiga

I was type B until I saw the error of my ways and became type A... :-)
It is funny to note that this occurred when I got my first Amiga.
Why?  Because a type B person *had* to be a type B person on an 8-bit
machine as there was no OS to worry about.  One had to bang the
hardware.  I would *never* consider bashing the hardware in the Amiga.
I do enough hardware bashing at work.  When I get home, I want to use a
nice stable OS to get a job done.

In any event, I wonder how many type B people were trapped by
circumstance and became type A once they moved to a 'real' machine,
such as the Amiga, with a 'real' OS.

I don't believe that the type B people are in the majority.  If they
were, why would C= spend so much time making OS 3.0 work so well with
AGA?  It seems that C= could have released an 'A4000 w/ AGA' years ago
without OS support of the new chips if the claim that more type B's
exist is true.

Loren
--
Loren J. Rittle (rittle@comm.mot.com)
Systems Technology Research (IL02/2240)
Motorola, Inc.
(708)576-7794
From: galpin@cats.ucsc.edu (Dan)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
Subject: Re: Notebook Computers Dominate Comdex
Date: 22 Nov 92 11:21:10 GMT
Organization: University of California; Santa Cruz
NNTP-Posting-Host: am.ucsc.edu


>>>>barrett@iastate.edu (Marc N. Barrett) writes:
>>>>>   The obvious questions are: when is Commodore going to develop a notebook
>>>>>Amiga???  Will it be when the growth of notebook sales has slowed and some
>>>   Commodore would be in the notebook computer market with a notebook Amiga
>>>if their engineers could develop one.
>>
>>But this is rediculous.  "if their engineers could develop one" is simply

The engineers could develop a cheap one.. but it would not be as battery
efficient as the MSDOS/Mac portables due to the extra power consumption of the
custon chipset. I would assume that the Amiga would also have a problem
slowing the clockrate down (in the custom chips) to reduce power consumption.

>>stupid.  Their engineers could ceartinly put a battery pack on a A600.
>   Perhaps you just do not realize what a notebook computer is.  Most notebook
>computers weigh less than four pounds, including the LCD display, battery
>pack, and everything.  By comparison, the A600 alone system unit alone probably
>weights far more than four pounds.  Add a battery pack and LCD display and you
>are talking about 15-20 pounds.  The latest notebook computers also have a
>VERY long battery life, thanks to the 3.3V CMOS technology I mentioned.  An
>A600 with a battery pack light enough to be luggable would be lucky to last
>one hour.
>

Not all portable machines use 3.3V CMOS technology.. (until recently.. very
few did at all) This included many notebook machines. The hard disk drive and
backlight want much more power than the other (mostly solid-state) stuff. 

Do the Mac Powerbooks use this 3.3V technology?

>   Please do not stick your foot so far into your moth next time.  It must be
>---
>| Marc Barrett -MB-  |  email: barrett@iastate.edu
>--------------------------------------------------

From my understanding, better battery life has been achieved by using advanced
power management techniques.. (shutting the drives down etc..) Most of the
machines will not give nearly as impressive a battery life under strenuous
operating conditions. The new 3.3v cmos technologies are most relevant to
battery powered smaller-than-notebooks machines that use flash memory and
don't have backlit displays. Otherwise it doesn't really help all that much.

I am certain that an Amiga can be fairly easily integrated into a notebook
form factor. Commodore suggests that the A1200/A600 are meant to be used for
portable presentations and the like, but I see that the lack of a fully
self-contained portable Amiga can only hurt its usability as a multimedia
platform.. even if it does not allow for battery power..

- Dan
-- 
******************************************************************************
* Dan Galpin                                            galpin@cats.ucsc.edu *
******************************************************************************
From: TomK@cup.portal.com (Tom R Krotchko)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
Subject: Re: What's the story with Commodore marketing?
Date: Sat, 21 Nov 92 00:43:26 PST
Organization: The Portal System (TM)
  <92324.155927CMS129@psuvm.psu.edu>

>Ok, here's a thought:  Why doesn't Commodore start putting Amigas in large
>department stores like Sears?  Don't think that they are, because every Sears
>I have ever been in has NEVER had an Amiga ANYWHERE in site.  Why is this so
>hard to do?  I see a ton of IBMs and even a Mac or two, but never an Amiga.

Larger Sears used to have an CBM stuff on display, but when they got the
"Sears Business Center", they dropped that.

But let me ask you, Don't you think the new PS/1's are the ugliest
computer ever made?

>Another scary thing was that while I was wondering around Sears, I saw a CD-I
>display sitting right between the stereo and computer equipment.  Why isn't
>CDTV marketed like this, or at all for that matter.

Its better than nothing, but not much. Last Christmas, the CD-I was always
turned on and doing a demo (to no interest). Now, Sears doesn't even turn
them on.

The Situation with the Amiga in the US is serious, but far from hopeless.

TomK@cup.portal.com
Tom Krotchko
From: TomK@cup.portal.com (Tom R Krotchko)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
Subject: Re: The piracy argument to end all arguments....
Date: Sat, 21 Nov 92 00:10:19 PST
Organization: The Portal System (TM)
  <69822@cup.portal.com> <1992Nov19.172459.19365@ugle.unit.no>

> > I'll bet you sing "yo-ho yo-ho a pirates life for me" in the shower.
>
>start of an *old* copier, but where is it from (I assume an old pirate movie).
.
>.
>It's driving me NUTS!

It played at the beginning of an old shareware copier by the guy who wrote
project D (Ben Fuller?). Its just a digitized sample (that I happen to
have right on my HD somewhere).

Anyway, its the song that plays in Disney World/Land in the Pirates of the
Carribean. Or is it Carribbean?

TomK@cup.portal.com
Tom Krotchko
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
From: dleland@dante.nmsu.edu (LELAND)
Subject: Re: PowerPC: how much of a threat?
Organization: New Mexico State University, Las Cruces, NM
Date: Mon, 16 Nov 1992 17:48:39 GMT

Perhaps it would help us all if someone could tell me just exactly what a PowerPC
is and what's so different about it. Is it just a machine that can run both Mac
and IBM softare? Whoopee. We already have that. Is it just that it's going to
be really really fast? Well, that's nice. That's worth developing for. Or is it
going to have yet another completely new operating system (which we DO NOT need
IMOHO)?


dleland@nmsu.edu
From: bloc1469@ee.ee.uwm.edu (Gregory R. Block)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
Subject: Re:  Notebook Computers Dominate Comdex
Date: 24 Nov 1992 00:17:14 GMT
Organization: Electrical Engineering Dept. University of Wisconsin - Milwaukee
Distribution: world
NNTP-Posting-Host: 129.89.2.33

In article <root.02z3@rkamiga.UUCP> root@rkamiga.UUCP (Rick Kelly) writes:
>It would probably be better to say that Commodore would be in the laptop
>Amiga business if marketing thought they could sell them.

Well, nobody ever claims that C= marketing thinks.  ;)

>Laptops are primarily sold to executives who travel or take their work
>home.

Or to Loathsome Pre-Pubescent College Students from BetaZed who spend
their time eating the pages of books in libraries.

I'd consider becoming one of those if an Amiga Laptop/Notebook were
available.  It's one of those things I've really got use for.  I'd
have to bust my butt, like I'm not already, to afford it, but that'd
be okay.

>Considering the dearth of business software available for the Amiga, I
>suspect they would have a hard time finding a large audience.
>We're talking $2000+ for a mono laptop, and add approximately $2300 to that
>for a color LCD screen.
>I have never seen a laptop with a screen that I really liked.

I'll agree there-neither have I.

--
(: (: (: (: Have you overdosed on smileys today?  Why NOT!?! :) :) :) :)
(:   "You said the world was magic, I was wide eyed and laughing."    :)
(:			-The Indigo Girls, "Joking"		      :)
(: (: (: (: (: (: (: (: (: (: (: (: (:) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :)
From: grr@cbmvax.commodore.com (George Robbins)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
Subject: Re: How much of the old OCS stuff will break on AGA machines?
Date: 19 Nov 92 05:48:13 GMT
Reply-To: grr@cbmvax.commodore.com (George Robbins)
Organization: Commodore, West Chester, PA

In article <jon.taylor.43.721955149@uuserv.cc.utah.edu> jon.taylor@uuserv.cc.utah.edu (JON M. TAYLOR) writes:
> 
> 	Well?  If I get one (4000 or 1200), will I have to throw away every 
> hardware-bashing game I own, every demo I own, and only be able to keep:
> 
> A) OLD stuff like arcticfox and marble madness that didn't hit the hardware,
> B) utilities (CLI-type stuff), and
> C) the occasional OS-friendly game (like SimCity)?
> 
> 	If so, it's not worth it.  I'll stick with an A500 with 1 meg chip 
> and 1 meg fast with PAL, and I'll check back in ~2 years to see if anyone 
> has actually written any stuff for AGA.  BTW, if C= had to totally redesign 
> the chipset and break all the old stuff, why didn't they improve the sound?

The changes to the Amiga chips are all but bit-level upwards compatible,
most of the software the breaks actually dies on the 68020's much better
performance, wider bandwidth to chip memory and the "A600/A1200" memory
map.

In many cases, it's just the same old NIH crap code for copy protection,
DIY disk access routines and poorly though out memory sizing routines that
die, not the graphics code.

-- 
George Robbins - now working for,     work:   to be avoided at all costs...
but no way officially representing:   uucp:   {uunet|pyramid|rutgers}!cbmvax!grr
Commodore, Engineering Department     domain: grr@cbmvax.commodore.com
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
From: falavi@bach.mth.kcl.ac.uk (Farrukh Alavi)
Subject: Re: Future Entertainment Show, London
Organization: J. Random Misconfigured Site
Date: Mon, 16 Nov 1992 12:03:04 GMT
X-Posted-From: bach.mth.kcl.ac.uk
NNTP-Posting-Host: sol.ctr.columbia.edu

In article <kdarling.721724826@garfield.catt.ncsu.edu>  
kdarling@garfield.catt.ncsu.edu (Kevin Darling)

>> Did YOU attend CES and see their demonstration?  I did and I asked the
>> Phillips representative about it.  He admitted that they were trying to
>> give the impression that it was running off of the Phillips player with
>> a MPEG card added, when in fact IT WAS NOT.  
[....]
>> Therefore, from my viewpoint it was at least a misleading  
>>demonstration.  (I believe it was actually running from a Compaq.)
>
>What's your viewpoint on the early Commodore CDTV "Photo CD demo"?

The CDTV Photo CD demo wasn't running off a Compaq - it was running off a  
CDTV. Both the CDTV and the DCTV box required to view Photo CD files were  
available for sale. The only thing preventing Commodore from promoting  
Photo CD compatibility (within the context of the DCTV box) was the  
licensing arrangement (Kodak was willing, Philips wasn't).

On the subject of Photo CDs, HAM-8 with a Photo CD datatype on the new  
Amigas makes an excellent way of seamlessly integrating Photo CD into the  
Amiga OS. Hope that Philips drops its objections to Commodore licensing  
the technology - after all, they don't mind Apple building Photo CD  
support into QuickTime. Of course, if they don't, it is not impossible to  
reverse-engineer the Photo CD file format and release it as a public  
domain datatype...;-). (Not that I'm necessarily advocating this `brute  
force' approach).
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
From: ins739l@lindblat.cc.monash.edu.au (William Fang)
Subject: Re: Top 10 reasons why ...
Organization: Monash University
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1 PL6]
Date: Sat, 21 Nov 1992 09:12:24 GMT

Ian M Rae (imr@cs.bham.ac.uk) wrote:
: >>	... the Falcon beats the 1200.  No, really, these important features
: >>of the Falcon always seem to get 'brushed off' by Amigoids when comparing
: >>the two machines.  Imagine how much it would cost to add most of these
: >>features to the 1200 (and then prey that 3rd party software vendors support
: >>your add-ons).  In fact, most of these can't even be found on the 4000.
: 
: [ Stuff deleted ]
: 
: >>	8. CD Codec
: >>	7. DSP
: 
: >These will both be included in any 16 bit sound expansion.  8 bit sound is
: >fine for the majority of users, so why make them pay for it?  If YOU want 16
: >bit sound, YOU pay for it, not me.  Besides, the 56001 in the Falcon is
: >cheesy.
: 
: "The 56001 is cheesy", WTF is that supposed to mean...
: 
: 	Software modems/faxes
: 	Real time audio effects/processing at > CD quality
: 	etc... ad nauseum ( if you own an Amiga )
: 
: Also falcon can do _WITHOUT_ using the DSP
: 
: 	16 bit stereo sampling with Direct to Disk recording
: 		(if you use DSP aswell the sample can be compresses easily by a
: 		factor of 4:1 in REAL TIME thus removing the puny argument that
: 		16 bit sound is useless in a 1 Meg machine)

It depends on the speed of your DMA access to floppy disk, as the one meg 
falcon doesn't seem to come with hard-drive.  You do have DMA to floppy?
You have DMA to anything?  If not, your 68030 is going to be awful busy...

: 	8 channel 16 bit playback

Just how does the Falcon do this *WITHOUT* the DSP?  From what I heard, it has
the same sound chip are the ST/STE range, so what does make sound on it?
Another sound chip?  Just curious, as I have no idea what a DSP is capable of.
(or the amount of programming needed to make the DSP do it).

: So get a life and actually admit just once that an atari machine has better specs
: as standard than the comparable Amiga one... ( i for one admit the AGA gfx are
: better for some stuff than the Falcons... )
: 
: >880K flopies are included because, from what i've heard, there isn't a
: >slimline HD drive (halfspeed) that will fit in the 1200.  Besides, it's a lot
: >more expensive.
: 
: Oh dear, for all those years Amigas had superior 880K floppies, now you have
: inferior 880K floppies just face it !

Oh dear, from the tone of your posting you are advocating vapour.  When and
if the Falcon is released to the public, not a handful of beta testers,
come back and advocate your Falcon.

If it the Falcon does eventually make it to market, Commodore will have released
it's DSP module in the first quarter of 1993.

: It seems to me all the things Amiga boasted amout for so long have been
: superceded in a BIG way, and all of a sudden it doesnt matter how good the sound
: is, how big yer floppy is ( no comment !)...

Yes, we can tell you suffer from a severe case of penis envy...

: Ian Rae

JF