HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: yasu@ll.mit.edu (Alan Yasutovich)
Subject: Re: Proposal for Child Support Legislation
Organization: MIT Lincoln Laboratory
Date: Fri, 20 Nov 92 18:54:14 GMT

In article <1992Nov19.131349.2608@drycas.club.cc.cmu.edu> xenon@drycas.club.cc.cmu.edu writes:
>In article <1992Nov18.134133.10893@ll.mit.edu>, yasu@ll.mit.edu (Alan Yasutovich) writes:
>> In article <1992Nov17.131102.2591@drycas.club.cc.cmu.edu> xenon@drycas.club.cc.cmu.edu writes:
>>>In article <1992Nov15.223913.23825@u.washington.edu>, zzz@byron.u.washington.edu (Sample) writes:
>>>> I propose the following child support legislation.
>>>>    1. The courts should continue to award primary 
>>>>       custody to only one parent.
>>>>    2. The courts should divorce the parent who did
>>>>       not receive the primary custody from his 
>>>>       children -- thereby terminating both his/her 
>>>>       rights (visitation) and duties (child support).
>>>
>>>What a load of moronic drivel!  What benefit would accrue from such
>>>legislation, other than that YOU would get out of paying child support?  For
>> 
>> 
>> 	Maybe to get *YOU* out of it as well!!
>> 
>
>I don't want to "get out of it", I just want it to be fair.  If I hadn't wanted
>children in my life I would have gotten a vasectomy.  That's what Mr. EuSless
>should have done.
>
>
>- xenon
>


	Well certainly I was playing the devils advocate, but you
	assume that all children are planned for.


-- 
	Alan Yasutovich
	"inquiring  (and nosey) minds WANT TO KNOW!!!"
	I can remember when "safe sex" meant having a padded headboard!!
	Tick Tock.....Tick Tock......Tick Tock .....Tick Tock......
Newsgroups: alt.child-support
From: yasu@ll.mit.edu (Alan Yasutovich)
Subject: Jury trial for support issues
Organization: MIT Lincoln Laboratory
Date: Tue, 17 Nov 92 20:17:47 GMT


	I just received a re-post of the old article about the constitution,
	as it applies to support issues.  To quote:


Florida requires that "all new and modified" child support orders be
subject to garnishment, even absent finding of default.  Does this not
1) assign a criminal punishment without criminal procedure (accusation,
discovery, evidence, testimony, rebuttal, conviction, JURY)? 2) let's
not forget jury trials here, folks; Am. VII "In all matters at common
law in which the value in controversy shall exceed $20, the right to
trial by jury shall be maintained."

I can't think of a single divorce with a settlement less than twenty
smackers.  Where're the juries?  Cumbersome to the process? never stopped
us before.  Not "at common law"?  Then neither is any other aspect of
our legal system.  Divorce is MORE "at common law" than, say, criminal
law; Common Law is derived of principles of "King's Courts" of England,
where the sovereign of an area sat in judgment of anything not covered
by specific laws -- like crimes.  Otherwise known, here, as "matters in
'equity'", they are the specific areas which our Framers decided the
citizens needed the most protection against judicial tyranny.  How true.




	Can a jury trial be held in a matter of a support issue?

-- 
	Alan Yasutovich
	"inquiring  (and nosey) minds WANT TO KNOW!!!"
	I can remember when "safe sex" meant having a padded headboard!!
	Tick Tock.....Tick Tock......Tick Tock .....Tick Tock......
Newsgroups: alt.child-support,soc.men,soc.women
From: zzz@byron.u.washington.edu (Sample)
Subject: Re: Proposal for Child Support Legislation
Reply-To: zzz@byron.u.washington.edu (Sample)
Organization: University of Washington
Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1992 06:27:31 GMT

I wrote:

      "The courts should divorce the parent who did
      not receive the primary custody. . ."

I was flamed by several, including Jim McNicholas who replied:   

       "Joint custody is preferable"
   
Even in "joint custody" ONLY one gets primary custody
   -- because someone has to make the final decision.
That person can refuse visitation and extort money with impunity
   -- because forced visitation is a form of rape.

Jim continues:

      "if anyone tried to terminate my children from 
      me I'd kill that person . . ."

Mature people accept divorce -- even dad-kid divorce.
From: mike@inti.lbl.gov (Michael Helm)
Newsgroups: alt.child-support
Subject: Re: college money info
Date: 20 Nov 1992 22:12:15 GMT
Organization: N.I.C.E.
Reply-To: mike@inti.lbl.gov (Michael Helm)
NNTP-Posting-Host: 128.3.128.82

Someone writes:
#>     The problem with all attempts so far, which have basically hinged
#>on comparing the duties [to pay for college] of married parents with divorced/never married
#>parents using equal protection or due process arguments, is that the
#>courts have always side-stepped by claiming that married parents and
#>single parents are different classes of people and thus equal 
#>protection and due process only apply in making sure that the people
#>within each class are treated in the same way.  People in different
#>classes do not have to be treated the same.

Is this "having it both ways" or what!?!?
Newsgroups: alt.child-support
From: klewis@AFIT.AF.MIL (Keith A. Lewis)
Subject: Someone please help answer questions about support
Keywords: child-support, spousal support
Organization: Air Force Institue of Technology, WPAFB OH
Date: Mon, 23 Nov 1992 16:07:24 GMT

To anyone out there,

  I have a friend who's ex-husband recently past.  She would like to know if 
she and her kids are entitled to, and how much, social security.  She has 
been divorced from him less than two months.  Enquiring minds would like to 
know.  We need a lot of feedback.  
Xref: sparky alt.child-support:3693 soc.men:19586 soc.women:19949
From: mmord@doc.bmd.trw.com
Newsgroups: alt.child-support,soc.men,soc.women
Subject: Re: Proposal for Child Support Legislation
Date: 19 Nov 92 16:38:13 GMT

In article <1992Nov19.062731.29897@u.washington.edu>, zzz@byron.u.washington.edu (Sample) writes:
> I wrote:
> 
>       "The courts should divorce the parent who did
>       not receive the primary custody. . ."
> 
> I was flamed by several, including Jim McNicholas who replied:   
> 
>        "Joint custody is preferable"
>    
> Even in "joint custody" ONLY one gets primary custody
>    -- because someone has to make the final decision.
> That person can refuse visitation and extort money with impunity
>    -- because forced visitation is a form of rape.
> 
> Jim continues:
> 
>       "if anyone tried to terminate my children from 
>       me I'd kill that person . . ."
> 
> Mature people accept divorce -- even dad-kid divorce.

You mean it is "mature" for me to sit back and let someone take away
my relationship with my kids?  You are either the most profoundly
stupid creature on the face of this planet or a master at flame-bait.
Are you a snot-nosed freshman at some school?

My children are the greatest source of joy and satisfaction in my
relatively joyous and satisfying life. I believe most fathers feel
the same way...divorced or not (I am). Surely circumstances occur
where a dismissal of a noncustodial parents obligations and rights
is appropriate, but you suggest that it be mandatory?  Rarely
does someone say something on the net that leaves me speechless
like this....surely you jest! Either way, fuck you, stupid ass.

I would surely and with great determination kill to keep someone
from destroying my relationship with my children if it was clear
that alternatives no longer existed. 

Bret Webster
Newsgroups: alt.child-support,soc.men,soc.women
From: dennisp@kpc.com (Dennis Preston)
Subject: Re: Proposal for Child Support Legislation
Organization: Kubota Pacific Computer Inc, Santa Clara, CA
Date: Mon, 16 Nov 1992 16:39:43 GMT

In article <1992Nov15.223913.23825@u.washington.edu> zzz@byron.u.washington.edu (Sample) writes:
>I propose the following child support legislation.
>   1. The courts should continue to award primary 
>      custody to only one parent.
>   2. The courts should divorce the parent who did
>      not receive the primary custody from his 
>      children -- thereby terminating both his/her 
>      rights (visitation) and duties (child support).

I hope that this is intended as flame bait. Your proposal would make an
already difficult fight look as if it were a game of jacks. IMO, the
number of courtroom shootings would rise dramatically. Also, what if the
kid actually wanted to see both parents. 

Xref: sparky alt.child-support:3668 soc.men:19460 soc.women:19774 alt.dads-rights:2625
From: xenon@drycas.club.cc.cmu.edu
Newsgroups: alt.child-support,soc.men,soc.women,alt.dads-rights
Subject: Re: Proposal for Child Support Legislation
Date: 17 Nov 92 13:11:01 -0500
Organization: Carnegie Mellon Computer Club

In article <1992Nov15.223913.23825@u.washington.edu>, zzz@byron.u.washington.edu (Sample) writes:
> I propose the following child support legislation.
>    1. The courts should continue to award primary 
>       custody to only one parent.
>    2. The courts should divorce the parent who did
>       not receive the primary custody from his 
>       children -- thereby terminating both his/her 
>       rights (visitation) and duties (child support).

What a load of moronic drivel!  What benefit would accrue from such
legislation, other than that YOU would get out of paying child support?  For
this you would cut the throat of every father who WANTS to have access to his
children but is prevented by a court system that is bigoted and deranged.  If
you feel that way about it, you should have had a vasectomy.  As far as I'm
concerned you are just as bad as the worst man-hating feminazis, and all you do
is give them more ammunition.

- xenon

Newsgroups: alt.child-support
From: zzz@byron.u.washington.edu (Sample)
Subject: Re: Proposal for Child Support Legislation
Reply-To: zzz@byron.u.washington.edu (Sample)
Organization: University of Washington
Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1992 03:32:30 GMT

The courts should make a divorce between the parent who did
not receive the primary custody and his/her child(ren)"

I wrote:

      "[The NCP -- i.e. the one with primary custody] can refuse 
      visitation and extort money with impunity
         -- because forced visitation [on the NCP] is a form of rape."

Xenon Replied:

     "Yeah, right... when have you ever heard of any parent being 
     "forced" to visit their own kid?
     
I meant that the NCP -- NOT the CP (i.e. the one without primary 
custody) -- shouldn't be forced to provide visitation.

Then I wrote:

     "Mature people accept divorce -- even dad-kid divorce."

Xenon responded:

     "Well, you have been "divorced" from a chunk of your paycheck.
     Be mature and accept it."
     
I have accepted it -- why did you think that I hadn't.

Xenon continues:
  
     "I sure don't see any increase in the popularity of vasectomies."
     
I have a vasectomy -- I highly recommend it.


WHY CAN'T YOU "MEN" OUT THERE LEARN TO LIVE WITHOUT YOUR KIDS?
Newsgroups: alt.child-support
From: smiles@NMC.ED.RAY.COM (Kevin Ruddy)
Subject: Re: Massachusetts gets tough -- and CSAM
Organization: Equipment Division, Raytheon Company
Date: Thu, 19 Nov 92 14:02:44 GMT

In article <0HPguB1w165w@dogear.spk.wa.us> bobk@dogear.spk.wa.us (Bob Kirkpatrick) writes:
>I'm wondering (not criticizing or flaming) if it might be a good idea for
>you folks to start a newsgroup or a maillist for the Massachusettes group.
>There's always plenty of room for discussion here in these groups, but it
>might help y'all localize and consolodate the work you're setting out to
>do. 

Originally, I was tempted to limit the distribution to New England instead
of the whole US, but I was wondering if someone else outside of the NE-area
might have heard about Massachusetts' legislative push.

I'd like to keep the forum open before taking it offline (in the form of a
mailing list) so early in its existence.  (Who knows?  Maybe I'm the only
person who will show up, making most of this moot.)  And a separate
newsgroup seems a little premature.  I think limiting the distribution is
better, at least for the time being.  Do I sound sensible?  Would anyone
be unhappy if I used alt.child-support with a limited distribution?

Kevin

-- 
Kevin.Ruddy@NMC.ED.RAY.COM
From: silk@mcl.ucsb.edu (ken mencher)
Newsgroups: alt.pub.dragons-inn
Subject: Re: Moria: Revenge and more good mornings
Date: 17 Nov 92 21:01:56 GMT

>	"Are we leaving soon? Every moment lost takes my Queen further away."
>Amachiak checks the saddlebags of his steed and puts some nuts into them.
>	"Everybody in? The trip is about to begin!"

About this time, Kotaro comes around to the front mounted on a strange
cart.  It appears to be floating about one foot above the ground and has
strange things placed on it.

	"This is my mount.  Are we ready?"

kotaro toka
cyber-ninja
From: ASG102@psuvm.psu.edu (The Dreamer)
Newsgroups: alt.pub.dragons-inn
Subject: [Mista][L] Luthor: Glance into the Darker Places
Date: 23 Nov 92 18:21:38 GMT
Organization: Penn State University


>Kirkil hold his hand extended and starts to advance towards the door. The
>crowd breaks before him.
>   "Sir shadowwer. Coulde you cometh heer, we zomme friendes help must.
>Cann you helpe me with this shielde, with witch we Ground back can push?"

Luthor was beyond hearing now, his mind screened out everything around him.

All that was left was the gem.
He stared deep into its swirling greyness and found beauty.
Not the beauty of a statue, made of stone and unmoving.
Not the beauty of a man or a woman, unable to change.
Not the beauty of the laws of the universe, strangled by their own still form.

Luthor saw the beauty of chaos.
Its formless wonder played havoc with his mind,
But that was the stuff of shadow.
This gem WAS what might be.
It MIGHT BE what was.
It is the past possible and the future unsure.

It was patternless yet structured.
In a way that none could understand.
Yet it was impossible to ignore.
It was just accepted by most as randomness.
Yes, it was randomness, but if only they knew what that meant.

When the universe was built, the powers that be gave choice
To all sentient beings so they could make mistakes.
'Learn from them and grow stronger' the beyond advised.
The powers left a little room for man to work with.
This room is the probable, the chance to change, chaos.
This choice, the embodiment of free will, was represented here.
The gem was made from it.

Luthor could feel each of the bricks in his mind.  He scanned each of these
bricks, felt their flaws, and reinforced them with his will.  He changed
many things about them in ways that could not be seen.  Cracks in the center
of the bricks, ones that no one has ever seen, disappeared as if they never
existed.  When they were gone, the universe forgot that they had ever existed,
and then forgot that it forgot.

The third blow from the Earths hit the inn.  It was not as loud as before.
Luthor hoped beyond hope that the other patrons were taking their toll by
now...then he wiped the thought from his mind and went about fixing the
fresh cracks in the bricks of the building.  He was so deep in his
concentration that nothing would have brought him out...not hot coals...
not a sword blow...mace shattering his knees...

And then he heard a low moan.  It was the moan of Serene, his beloved.  He
could tell that she had suffered from a loss.  He felt love then, hotter
than coals, sharper than a sword, heavier than a mace, it pierced his
heart and broke his concentration.

He flew to her side where Littlefair was nursing her.  Luthor took her frail
form into his arms and cradled her gently, much like Serene had cradled Mista.
But where was his goddaughter now?  Luthor began to panic.
"Serene, my love, what has happened here?" he asked urgently with dispair
heavy in his vioce.  "I have lost one child...I will NOT lose another."

     Love and Peace and Fatherly Instincts,
                 -The Dreamer-
From: mdm@sparc2.prime.com (Michael D. McAfee)
Newsgroups: alt.pub.dragons-inn
Subject: [ADMIN] Master Hawk, mail to you bounced
Date: 18 Nov 92 18:53:20 GMT
Organization: Computervision


	Master Hawk, I tried replying to your mail, but it bounced.
	I'll try to answer here.

	There seemed to be little to no interest in the [KN] thread,
		so I figured I could try to integrate it with the rest
		of Generica.  The plot device I'm using is that the
		dark elf is going to be forced to carry out a mission
		(details forthcoming once I set them up).  This should
		leave things open-ended enough for folks to choose if
		they want to stay in the dark room, or if they'd like
		to interact with other characters.  And hopefully,
		this will get more interest going.

	I apologize if I threw a wrench into other plans.

	Michael, the Chaotic
From: ignacio@zephyr.cs.odu.edu (Anthony Ignacio)
Subject: help
Organization: Old Dominion University, Norfolk, Va
Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1992 01:09:58 GMT

Greets again folx,

Yup, it's me again.  *smile*  Figures my 'test' posting made it.  *wry grin*  At
least now I know what I did wrong.  I jus got a quick question for you all.  I
have read the mini-FAQ and have saved most of the background material about
Generica (Map of the Known Lands, Character Lists, Beastiary, etc.) but I was
wondering if there are postings listing all active threads, what characters are
involved in them, and any new threads that are forming.  I know that ...sage
has a review thingy that he posts but it didn't really help me much in the way
of lettin' me know who's active and which threads (if any) are open to new-
comers.  Any help here from any of the 'old hands' would be much appreciated.

Thanx again for your patience.  I know that I'm not supposed to post questions
up but this was the easiest way for me to circulate my questions to the people
who may be best suited to answer.

[To all currently involved in a thread: KEEP KICKIN' BUTT GUYS!  *hi-fives all
around*  Sorry, couldn't resist!  :)]

Anthony Ignacio
ignacio@cs.odu.edu
CyberMage on IRC (in case any of you IRC at all... :)
From: mcspikgfm@dct.ac.uk
Newsgroups: alt.pub.dragons-inn
Subject: Re: [MISTA][L] Madness takes a hand
Date: 21 Nov 92 11:41:43 GMT
Organization: Dundee Institute of Technology



	As suddenly as the head had dropped it raised itself and let out a howl
of pure rage. The eyes turned to show the fires deep within the eyes, that had 
been evident before, now filled the pupils completely. From her mouth came a 
jumble of words and from her fingers came a huge bolt of lightning driven 
onwards by her hatred and aimed at the centre of Fire's back. 

	The bolt impacted with Fire and the elemental semed to hiss with rage
as it turned to face what it had thought it had already killed. It took a short
step forward as the elf tried to regain her feet, and fell as the shattered
ankle gave out below her. For a moment, pain showed on Melandra's face before 
a new determination surfaced. She muttered a few words and suddenly was infused
with a bright light. 
	The sylph that now stood where the elf had been, drew her sword to take
the attack. 



								Mel.

********************************************************************************
  Melandra Flametree, Lady Wizardess  * Internet: mcspikgfm@dct.ac.uk
  Pyrolator, Princess of Vyalia       * Janet   : mcspikgfm@uk.ac.Dundee-Tech
  & Slightly Insane Elf.."BOOM..Fun!" * Dundee College of Technology, Scotland.
********************************************************************************
Newsgroups: alt.pub.dragons-inn
From: dementia@cheshire.oxy.edu (Daniel Steven Reinker)
Subject: [blade] Interlude: Meshtak the hunted
Organization: Occidental College, Los Angeles, CA 90041 USA.
Date: Mon, 16 Nov 1992 20:27:23 GMT

Meshtak runs through the rapidly darkening city, hearing far
behind him the clomp clomp of the guardsmen following him.
He tears through the back alleys until he is completely disoriented
and eventually he goes through so many narrow cracks that
the guardsmen give up looking for him, and head back to their
commander, hoping that the arrow in the draga's shoulder would
bring him down.
And indeed, Meshtak is weak and delirious, tired from running
and faint from the blood dripping out of his shoulder wound.
He thanks the spirits of good fortune when he no longer hears
the guardsmen behind him, but still runs, fearing a trick.
Finally he can run no longer, and he lets his weight pull him
onto the doorstop in front of a nearby doorway. His sight wavers,
blurs, and he nearly passes out. His mind is racing, chasing images,
almost going without his control, and Meshtak begins to think that
unconsciousness will be harder and harder to resist. He starts
to hear a loud barking, and he can only think of the valaks, the
dog-like predators of the plains. They are closing in, he thinks.
Then he hears a voice. It is soft and pure. "Hush, Idgie, quiet, I'm 
going to take a look." He hears the door open, and is enveloped by a
soft light. A feminine gasp, and he is being rolled over. His eyes
focus...almost...on a womans soft features, and then he passes out.

Meshtak the Draga
[ADMIN: Sorry for the delay folks, for some reason internet has
been rejecting all my articles. :( ]
-- 
"You can't help that. We're all mad here."-The cheshire cat, Alice in WL

"A mass hysteria/a megalomania/reveal Dementia/reveal"-Metallica
From: ...sage@basement.library.generica.nexus
Newsgroups: alt.pub.dragons-inn
Subject: ADMIN: Thread Catalog (Please read)
Followup-To: alt.pub.dragons-inn
Date: 22 Nov 1992 22:06:53 GMT
Organization: the basement of the Great Library of Generica
Distribution: world
Reply-To: pcalvert@economics.adelaide.edu.au
NNTP-Posting-Host: calvert.commerce.adelaide.edu.au
Keywords: archives

There has been a lot of threads starting and stopping 
recently, and I don't think I'm the only one having trouble
following what is going on.
Also, not all threads have been sending summaries for the 
review, so its even harder to keep track.

I propose that a list of active threads be kept (possibly
being listed in the Review) and that all this need contain
is the descriptor [X], the title, and a contact person, plus
(if necessary) a *brief* summary of the *plot* or reson d'etre.

Please do not post followup discussion here. Email and if people
are against the idea, or apathetic about it, then it'll sink 
back into the Southern Marshes, however, if people follow through,
then I'll let everyone know (based on most popular format requested/
suggested).

I can be emailed on:
pcalvert@economics.adelaide.edu.au
sage@maria.wustl.edu
pjcalver@teaching.cs.adelaide.edu.au
and possibly calvert@calvert.commerce.adelaide.edu.au

don't try 'reply'ing to this article 'coz it'll probably end up
trying to contact ...sage@whatever.machine.you.are.on

				cheers,
					...sage
Newsgroups: alt.pub.dragons-inn