From: dbidwa@sei.cmu.edu (Daniel Bidwa)
Newsgroups: rec.motorcycles
Subject: Re: Won't be in Colorado...
Date: 11 Nov 92 19:28:17 GMT
Article-I.D.: sei.1992Nov11.192817.8949
Organization: The Software Engineering Institute


daved@convex.com (David Dorfman) writes:
|> dbidwa@sei.cmu.edu (Daniel Bidwa) writes:
|> >There's a big difference between, say, telling your boss that you
|> >shoplifted something and telling your boss that you went to the movies
|> >with a date named Dave (or some other same-sex name). Same-sex relations
|> >aren't illegal.  
|> 
|> To be more clear, I don't tell my boss or co-workers anything they would 
|> consider in appropriate. As a heterosexual I would not tell anyone that 
|> was not a close personal friend about an extra marital or adulterous affair.
|> I don't want to tell you how to live your life, but don't tell me about
|> things I consider unwelcome or unpleasant. 

A same-sex date isn't comparable to an extramarital affair.

|> >I don't want anyone's goddamn approval, I just don't want to worry about
|> >losing my job because some homophobe takes offense to me saying that I went
|> >out with my male lover... If you go out on a date with a woman, do you
|> >feel that you have to hide that fact from everyone in your office? 
|> 
|> If it was a so called " adulterous affair" I would not volunteer the
|> information to anyone in my office. If I felt co-workers would be offended I
|> would not volunteer any information that would offend them.

And maybe that's the sticking point here: you seem to be willing to tiptoe
around your co-workers' sensibilities, regardless of how much self-censorship
it requires. That's called being in the closet, and if that self-censorship
deals with something near and dear, it's an evil thing. Do you have a
girlfriend/son/parent/dog/motorcycle/something that's a big part of your life?
Try going an entire day without mentioning her/him/it -- don't even hint that
she/he/it exists. It's no fun. You say that you try not to offend your
co-workers; if the fact that you own a motorcycle is the biggest distinction
between you and them, I doubt that it's too hard. (This isn't meant as a
flame, just a statement of fact.) If the distinction is deeper -- say you're
Jewish, and nobody else is -- it's a lot harder; if you hear people telling
anti-Semetic jokes at work, it's even harder. How can you tell if other
co-workers might be offended by your being Jewish? Is it worth worrying about?

|> >|> I hope your emotional response is not indicative of what will happen.
|> >|> Perhaps we should be working for more rights for all people.
|> 
|> >Gee, perhaps we should. 
|> >So what the fuck have you done?
|> 
|> I can understand your response considering you have a lot more to lose in
|> this situation, but when each splinter group that can be subject to
|> discrimination wants there own protected niche instead of arguing for
|> general protection of everyones rights it is not the answer. 

But see, that's the point: no gay person wanted this bill! We don't want our
own protected niche! If gay people were being promoted over others solely
because of their sexual preference, or otherwise being un-discriminated
against, the amendment would be justifiable, but that's hardly the case. Isn't
it a bit suspicious that an organization that's on record as being anti-gay
introduces an amendment that denies people legal protection for the trait that
the organization is persecuting? Sounds like they're tethering the deer before
sending out the hunters to me. 

|> Don't get angry at me, if more people were like me 
|> you wouldn't need the protection of a special class.

Gee, thanks for all the help.

Dan



_____________________________________________________________________________
Dan Bidwa                             I believe nothing and in nothing.
dbidwa@sei.cmu.edu       !disclaim!   I believe everything and in everything.