HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: "J. Gao" <gaojeng@durras.anu.edu.au>
Subject:      Re: Protest in San Francisco
Reply-To: "J. Gao" <gaojeng@durras.anu.edu.au>
Organization: Indiana University
Date: Thu, 3 Sep 1992 01:27:42 GMT
Comments: To: CHINA-NT@uga.cc.uga.edu

> Come on, what protest for? The whole event is a successful setup, and Shen
 Tong
> got what he wanted: to get famous and lend support to his congress friends'
> claim that China deserves sanctions because of the bad HR records. China also
> did not break her promise: it's fine to come back if you don't do it again
> no matter what you had done before. But anyway, a protest will make the setup
> more beautiful and it's not bad to have some excercise after a long time
> break.
>
>
> William Deng

Are you trying to show you are being "cool"?  A "setup"? Yes, the trip was
well planned, but for what? On the personal level, for safety. Did you know
what Shen Tong was trying to do? Did you know what Shen Tong wrote in the
press release? Were you trying to jeer at a whole range of people who felt
strongly against the horrible HR situation in China? Don't play dirty
politics here, don't toy with political exercise here! If you feel bored,
go and do whatever you like elsewhere, but don't try to insult people.

Feel with your heart, if you've got one.

Gao Jie
Canberra, Australia
From: 3011_6470@UWOVAX.UWO.CA
Newsgroups: talk.politics.china
Subject: Re: Sun Zhong-Shan, Shen Tong, Wong Jin-Wei and others...
Date: 4 Sep 92 13:39:40 GMT
Reply-To: 3011_6470@UWOVAX.UWO.CA
Organization: Indiana University
Comments: cc: China-net <china-nt@uga.cc.uga.edu>

Sun Yat-sen's Japanese friends had ultr-motivations.  While
supporting Sun, they were very tough on Yuan ShiKai, who had
the power and chance to unite China, had he not indulged
himself in that stupid persuit of the "emperor dream".

Many of Sun's Japanese friends were supporters of the "big
Asia" dream, a big Asia led by you guess whom.  And also
guess why CCP's history books avoid to mention Sun's Japanese
connections, considering their admiration of Sun.

I don't see much pararrel between Sun and ST.  But your
example is a bad one.


Dave Sheng
Newsgroups: talk.politics.china
From: "Ignatius Ding" <ding@HPSMTC1.CUP.HP.COM>
Subject:      Protest in San Francisco
Reply-To: "Ignatius Ding" <ding@HPSMTC1.CUP.HP.COM>
Organization: Indiana University
Date: Tue, 1 Sep 1992 21:37:48 GMT
Comments: To: Dennis.D.Lee@Eng.Sun.COM, china-nt@uga.cc.uga.edu,
              donovan@csl.sri.com, hknet@cs.wisc.edu, ho@mips.com,
              ifcss%WAM.UMD.EDU@uga.cc.uga.edu,
              joseph_ng%5y@hp0200.desk.hp.com, jung_lin%40@hp1900.desk.hp.COM,
              sdc@longhorn.Corp.sun.com, ggach@pandora.sf.ca.us,
              xwu@janus.Berkeley.EDU, cnd-editor@sdsc.edu,
              melody@hpsmtc1.cup.hp.com, jchu@hpsmtc1.cup.hp.com,
              wuling@s1.msi.umn.edu, li@perry.berkeley.edu,
              jyee@eclair.berkeley.edu, Isaac.Chen@Eng.Sun.COM,
              ide!ide.com!cai@uunet.UU.NET, wwang@mail1.cis.umn.edu,
              china@diva.berkeley.edu

Date: Tue, 1 Sep 92 14:14:19 PDT
>From: mcheng@crusader.Corp.Sun.COM (Michelle Cheng)
To: ***********************************************
Subject: PROTEST REGARDING SHEN TONG'S ARREST


SHEN TONG'S SISTER, SHEN QING, WILL READ
A PROTEST LETTER TO THE CHINESE CONSULATE
IN SAN FRANCISCO, TOMORROW, WEDNESDAY AT
10:30 A.M.

LET'S SHOW OUR UNITY.

THIS EVENT IS NOT SPONSORED BY ANY ONE
ORGANIZATION.  IT IS A UNITED SHOW OF
OUTRAGE OVER SHEN TONG'S DETAINMENT.

PLEASE CONTACT MIMI LIN AT 408-553-2929
to CONFIRM PARTICIPATION.
Newsgroups: talk.politics.china
From: JUENKUNG@RAMOTH.USC.EDU
Subject:      Re: Protest in San Francisco
Reply-To: JUENKUNG@RAMOTH.USC.EDU
Organization: Indiana University
Date: Wed, 2 Sep 1992 07:35:00 GMT
Comments: cc: china-nt%uga.cc.uga.edu@USC.EDU

	I've just been informed that CCP has started to spread rumors about
Shen's arrest, one of the rumors is "Shen want to get famous"!
Newsgroups: talk.politics.china
From: s9874194@phobos.ucc.umass.edu (s9874194)
Subject: Re: Shen Tong's Arrest Confirmed
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41    
Organization: University of Massachusetts, Amherst
Date: Wed, 2 Sep 1992 03:03:00 GMT

In article <1992Sep1.235553.5544@ulowell.ulowell.edu>, cshi@cs.ulowell.edu (Chunde Shi) writes...
>In article <Btx69J.3L0@usenet.ucs.indiana.edu> "Ignatius Ding" <ding@HPSMTC1.CUP.HP.COM> writes:
>>
>>      This is a follow-up report to the UPI/CBS news report regarding the
>>confirmed arrest of Shen Tong in Beijing at 1:30AM, Tuesday Beijing time, or
>>1:30PM/EDT, Monday.  According to Marshall Strauss, Executive Director of the
>>Democracy for China Fund of Newton, Mass, two other individuals, Qi Da-Feng and
>>Qian Liyan (wife of dissident student Xiong Yang), were also arrested along
>>with Shen at his family's home.
>>
>>      Please call or fax an emergency plea immediately to the U.S. senators of
>>your state, or members of national parliament if you live outside of the United
>>States.  We must act quickly.  These three courageous young fellows might be
>>saved from severe tortures if we can generate enough pressure in the
>>international community.
>>
>>
>>Ignatius Ding
>>SVDC Communications
>This is carfully orchestrated PR action to get "protection bill" passed, as
>with the "hunger strike".
>Backgrounds:
>   1. Yesterday eveny, NPR(National Public Radio) reported that the PR(Public
>Relation)Firm that was hired by Kuwait Government, forged "baby incubator was
>snatched away" atrocity of Iraqis was hired by "Chinese Students" too. My
>speculation is that "Democracy for China Fund" is another "Citizens for Free
>Kuwait" pieced together with cash by the PR Firm. 
>   2. According to BBC this morning, in the interview with Rose Terrill, who
>has very strong British accent, a border memeber of the Organization  and 
>went China with Shen Tong, Rose Terrill
>said that Shen Tong felt strang that why had not CG interven what He had been
>doing in China for Month before the arrest. It indicated that His purpose of
>the trip was to get arrested, to create another "human Right abuse" incident,
>for the sake of "Protection Bill".
>   3. Shen Tong is only a pupet of the Organization. Real power is in the hand
>of Marshall Strauss who control the funding. Shen Tong had to consult him
>every day through phone when Shen was in China.
>   4. In this scheme, they even had coded word for their success: "Is this
>Andrea" to indicate Shen was arrested;
>   5. Qute Marshall Strauss after their success, in a conference: "The Chinese
>are faced with a public relations disaster and the rest of the world must
>exert presure for his(shen) release". That is the real purpose, "PR disaster"
>for the Chinese.
> 
> 
=============================================================================
I have serious doubt about what you reported here. However, if it is true
and you are very serious, I suggest that you send it to ALL the US news media
as well as People's Daily and CND.
REgards!
From: H.Wang@bradford.ac.uk (H WANG)
Newsgroups: talk.politics.china
Subject: New Policy towards SCC
Date: 28 Aug 92 12:25:16 GMT
Organization: University of Bradford, UK
Originator: 90908648@ccw202


xiong@BSU-CS.BSU.EDU (Bo Xiong) wrote:

  Bo Xiong>Remember how hard those J-1 students cried for 
           elimination of their two-year-home-stay-
           requirement but got nowhere in 1987-1988 in the 
           U.S. and the Chinese government then even 
           tightened the policy towards overseas CSS ???

As we all know, policy in China vary greatly from one minister
to another. I think in 1987-1988 it was He Dongchang who
made that policy. Now that he steped down in May and the new
head of education system want to win some score on this 
matter. Also the living and working condition for returning 
CSS has changed a lot in favour of CSS - mostly in coastal 
regions. Then there's a danger that another new head may 
undo all this in the future.

Wang
Newsgroups: talk.politics.china
From: 43JIANG%CUA.BITNET@uga.cc.uga.edu
Subject:      Re: Protest against the arresting of SHEN Tong
Reply-To: 43JIANG%CUA.BITNET@uga.cc.uga.edu
Organization: Indiana University
Date: Thu, 3 Sep 1992 19:20:09 GMT

I agree with another SHEN Tong. All we are discussing up to now are
what what about Shen Tong, his motive, etc. Why we have forgot CG?
Without this important part, nothing could happen!
Newsgroups: talk.politics.china
From: liu9yong@athena.mit.edu ()
Subject: Re: Shameful Speculations
Organization: Massachusetts Institute of Technology
Date: Thu, 3 Sep 1992 03:24:16 GMT

Please send your answer to the following question to me. Thank you.

What purposes does Shen Tong's China trip serve?
A. setup a fund for China democracy
B. embarrase Chinese government
C. visit family
D. improve Chinese' human rights conditions
E. improve China's economic conditions
F. become more famous himself
G. help push "protection bill"
H. serve some "special interest" group
I. others (please name it)

You are welcome to elaborate in your reply to this account.
I will post a summary if I receive sufficiently many replies (>=8).
Thank you.
liu9yong@athena.mit.edu

Newsgroups: talk.politics.china
From: xlli@silver.ucs.indiana.edu (xiao-lin li)
Subject: Re:      IFCSS Statement on Shen Tong's Arrest
Organization: Indiana University
Date: Thu, 3 Sep 1992 17:08:10 GMT

In article <1992Sep3.060200.933@nntp.hut.fi> ldong@hila.hut.fi (Liyun Dong) writes:

>  it seems that in China anti-government attitude is not a crime. 
>  but anti-government action is a crime. mr. Shen's activity may be 
>  considered as an action.

We don't know. Also we don't know how to classify anti-government attitude
and anti-government action. Many demostrations in US are against government.
I guess when people say action, they mean violent action such as murder,
setting bomb, blocking traffic, occupying government building and so on.
These certainly do not apply to Shen Tong.

When Shen Tong wanted to establish his fund, did he say explicitly
that his fund was against government?

>  chinese government may not tolerate this kind of democracy which
>  may cause its current leader being out of power. 

This is their understanding and their fear. I think it is irrational
for them to think and fear in this way. People will protect a peacefully
elected government instead of overturning it.

If they fear, they must be guilty to some extent.

>  99 percent of Chinese may have this kind of thought. But they seem
>  not worry about being arrested.

I tend to be more conservative. I would say over 60 percent of
Chinese people dislike this government. Even that people want 
to change it peacefully. 

People are not satisfied for not being arrested. They want to be
counted.

>  Chinese Government is only guilty by US laws. But US laws does not 
>  apply in China. 

I guess it is more than US law as a measure, it may be guilty in
the law standard of many countries. Yes it may be not guilty
in the standard of some countries including current Chinese
law (?). Sorry I put a question mark here.

>  You have your freedom to choose whether to outcry or not.
>  I think Mr. Shen is a brave guy. But his action may not be proper.
>  (why? it's a long story, and would waste lot of network resources)
>  I hope he could be released soon and return to US.

I would say that the Chinese government's action is more improper
than that of Shen Tong's. I am on the stance of ordinary people.
Newsgroups: talk.politics.china
From: xlli@silver.ucs.indiana.edu (xiao-lin li)
Subject: Re: Shameful Speculations
Organization: Indiana University
Date: Thu, 3 Sep 1992 17:11:34 GMT

In article <1992Sep3.032416.28929@athena.mit.edu> liu9yong@athena.mit.edu () writes:
>
>What purposes does Shen Tong's China trip serve?
>A. setup a fund for China democracy
>B. embarrase Chinese government
>C. visit family
>D. improve Chinese' human rights conditions
>E. improve China's economic conditions
>F. become more famous himself
>G. help push "protection bill"
>H. serve some "special interest" group
>I. others (please name it)
>
>liu9yong@athena.mit.edu

I see none of above as an violent action aiming at overturning the
government. It does not make sense to me to arrest him, regardless
right or wrong for what he was trying to do (different people have
different opinion to different things).

Newsgroups: talk.politics.china
From: weizhang@matt.ksu.ksu.edu (Wei Zhang)
Newsgroups: talk.politics.china
Subject: Re: Smeargram from Chunde Shi
Date: 2 Sep 1992 22:59:39 -0500
Organization: Kansas State University
NNTP-Posting-Host: matt.ksu.ksu.edu

"Ignatius Y. Ding" <ding@HPSMTC1.CUP.HP.COM> writes:


        Finally see something logic on this issue.  Although I don't know       anything about that guy (Chunde Shi), I am sure he has been thinking about      PR too much to have anything logic to say.


>This fellow certainly has an interesting perspective here.  I am a member of a
>human rights organization with a charter to promote human rights in China.  Our
>members are from all walks of life and frankly not related to any of the
>activities or organizations as this guy insinuated.  Most of us are Chinese-
>Americans who have been in this country for an average of fifteen years or
>more.  We have NOTHING to do with the protection bill or any bills.  We are not
>for hire either.  In fact, we use our own money to do a lot of thing just for
>the good cause.

>None of us know, heard of, or ever met Ross Terrill whoever he is.  We met Shen
>Tong a few times who appears to be an intellegent young man.  It is very
>unlikely that he went to China "to get arrested" in order to get the so-called
>"protection bill" passed - i.e. to get the thousands of green cards for his
>fellow students and families.  It doesn't make any sense.

>It is even sillier to indicate that Wang Juntao' hunger strike is for that
>purpose too.  Why does he want to do that?

>I don't know whether the article in New York Times was written in English or
>not, but I am certain that it won't be published by NYT if it was written in
>Chinese.  From my experience of dealing with the American press, especially the
>ones working in the editorials section, they are very helpful to give pointers
>and provide assistance to polish up the submitted pieces while keep the
>original article intact in spiril.  Shen Tong's English was quite good to
>begin with.  The critique was totally out of line.

>This guy categorily blasted at "westerners" (the bad guys) and assumed that
>everyone involved had an ill intent.  Or he just wanted others to believe that.
>If it was the latter, I think that he did a lousy job.  CCP really shouldn't
>cut him his next paycheck!  Or send him home since he feels so uncomfortable
>here.  Okay, no green card for this guy.  BTW, is the whole darn thing just a
>sour grape?  :-)


>Ignatius Ding
>(I am speaking for myself, not for SVDC this time)
From: H.Wang@bradford.ac.uk (H WANG)
Newsgroups: talk.politics.china
Subject: Re: Protest in San Francisco
Date: 2 Sep 92 09:49:21 GMT
Organization: University of Bradford, UK
Originator: 90908648@ccw206




>Please don't be so rude, Shen is among the 21 most wanted student leader
>after 6.4., he may be sentenced for several years in prison, that`s a funny
>way to "get famous".

It surely IS a funny way. 

In order to get famous, a minimum time of 10 - 20 years is needed.

Remember Liu Qingshan of HK?
Newsgroups: talk.politics.china
From: HWANGK%VTCC1.BITNET@uga.cc.uga.edu
Subject:      IFCSS Statement on Shen Tong's Arrest
Reply-To: HWANGK%VTCC1.BITNET@uga.cc.uga.edu
Organization: Indiana University
Date: Tue, 1 Sep 1992 20:49:00 GMT

Dear netters,

        Due to some technical problems with the IFCSS HQ's computer system,
I am authorized by the HQ to release the following IFCSS statement for the
HQ. Please contact the HQ if you have any question regarding the matter
mentioned in the statement.

                                        Anzhi Lai

                                        September 1, 1992

===========================================================================



                 ***************************************

                  IFCSS Statement on Shen Tong's Arrest

                           September 1, 1992

                 ***************************************


        We were astonished to learn that Shen Tong, a Chinese student at
Boston Universtity, was arrested in Beijing yesterday during his home visit
to China. IFCSS expresses deep concern over the incident.

        Recently, the Chinese government has repeatedly pledged the safety
of overseas Chinese students, including those who have participated in
"anti-government" activities. Shen Tong's arrest once again cast serious
doubts on these pledges. As an organization whose mission is to safe guard
the interests of Chinese students and scholars in the United States, IFCSS
strongly demands

        1. That Shen Tong be released immediately and unconditionally and
allowed to return to the United States to continue his education;

        2. That pratical measures be adopted to ensure free entry and exit
by home-visiting students and guarantee their personal safety;

        3. That all violations of legitimate rights of overseas students be
terminated.

        We hope that the Chinese government will act swiftly and wisely on
this matter.
Newsgroups: talk.politics.china
From: Larry Engelmann <ENGELMAN%SJSUVM1.BITNET@uga.cc.uga.edu>
Subject:      subscription
Reply-To: Larry Engelmann <ENGELMAN%SJSUVM1.BITNET@uga.cc.uga.edu>
Organization: Indiana University
Date: Mon, 31 Aug 1992 23:06:53 GMT

Please subscribe the following individual who has requested that I forward his
address to you.  George.crane at williams.edu.  Thanks.
Newsgroups: talk.politics.drugs
From: bab@icd.ab.com (Brian A. Batke)
Subject: Re: Fort Wayne: Landlords Must Evict Drug-Dealing Tenants
Organization: Allen-Bradley Co., Highland Heights, OH
Date: Tue, 1 Sep 1992 12:56:37 GMT

In article <_mvy61p@rpi.edu>,  wrf@ecse.rpi.edu (Wm Randolph Franklin) writes:
> 
> In article <=0an3_r.feustel@netcom.com> on Wed, 26 Aug 92 00:59:46 GMT,
> feustel@netcom.com (David Feustel) writes:
> 
>   > The Fort Wayne, IN.  City Council is voting tonight on an ordinance
>   > providing for fines to be levied against landlords who do not evict
>   > tenants after the city sends the landlord a letter asserting that drugs
>   > are being sold in said tenants' apartment. The amount of the proposed
>   > fines is to range from $500 to $2500/day.
> 
> If I remember right, the Buffalo NY version of this calls for
> confiscation of the building after 2 warnings to the landlord about
> tenants charged with drug offenses.  I'm not positive about the "2" or
> the "charged" but am positive about the "confiscation" and about there
> being nothing requiring prior conviction of the tenant.
> 

It's even worse here in Cleveland right now. Mayor Michael White has
a "Drug House Task Force" that is boarding up "drug houses" without giving
landlords ANY warning. Then they bring in the housing inspection dept to
look for any code violations that can give them an excuse to condemn the
property.

Landlords are understandably upset, and at first tried to negotiate with
the mayor to give them ample time to evict problem tenants. The mayor
responded by lambasting the press for not being "in the streets"
fighting drugs.

A landlord's association has recently filed suit to halt the task force.
The mayor has vowed not to stop.

-----------
Brian Batke
bab@icd.ab.com
Allen-Bradley Co., Highland Hts, Ohio
Newsgroups: talk.politics.drugs,alt.activism
From: lewis@aera8700.mitre.org (Keith Lewis)
Subject: Re: Civil Forfeiture -- A letter to the local paper
Organization: The MITRE Corporation
Date: Fri, 4 Sep 1992 13:41:25 GMT

In article <1992Sep4.042817.22253@ddsw1.mcs.com>, karl@ddsw1.MCS.COM (Karl Denninger) writes:
>We'll see if the Trib has the guts to publish this.
[...]

I agree with you that civil forfeiture should be stopped, which was your
main point.  But you also wrote:

>Certainly drugs are a problem in our society today.  Certainly the dealing 
>of crack and other dangerous narcotics damages neighborhoods and lives.  

A Hearst newspaper will probably not blink an eye over this unsupported
statement.  They were the original purveyors of the racist "marihuana"
hysteria.  I, on the other hand, do object.  I believe that drug laws are
the problem; not drugs themselves.  Without drug laws, there would be no
"turf wars"; so "drug related" murders would drop to near zero.  In
addition, drug purity would improve; and cost would decrease.  

Usage of alcohol might even decrease due to substitution of marijuana, a
safer drug.  The less potent forms of cocaine (coca tea, etc.) would
probably become the preferred method of administration.  

It is true that there would be no "drug problem" in our society if drugs did
not exist.  But you can't vote drugs out of existance.  Drug laws, on the
other hand, can be wiped out by the power of democracy.  Spread the truth.

Keith Lewis             klewis@mitre.org          "Mr. Cheap"
I don't dance to music; music dances to me.  Email me for my PGP key.
The above may not (yet) represent the opinions of my employer.
From: atfurman@cup.portal.com (A T Furman)
Newsgroups: talk.politics.drugs
Subject: Re: Let's stuff his mailbox (Re: Fwd from CLINTON ...)
Date: Wed, 26 Aug 92 22:59:14 PDT
Organization: The Portal System (TM)
  <1992Aug26.003641.16502@news.cs.indiana.edu>

>So, go to it, netters.  Let's give the Clinton people something to
>think about.

As long as they believe that the only choices are Bush and Clinton,
and anyone else is "wasting your vote", antiprohibitionists will
(probably correctly) conclude that Bush is the worse of the two
evils, and Clinton is the lesser.  So Clinton has everything to
gain by out-prohibitioNazi-ing Bush, and NOTHING TO LOSE.

You can lead a horse's ass to a reasoned argument, but you can't
make him think.  To "give the Clinton people something to think about"
is futile if there is no INCENTIVE.


    Alan T. Furman         | VOTE LIBERTARIAN!!  Marrou/Lord in 92!!
---------------------------+----------------------------------------
  atfurman@cup.portal.sig  |   (800)682-1776 for more information
From: hagerp@moose.cs.indiana.edu (Paul Hager)
Newsgroups: talk.politics.drugs
Subject: Let's stuff his mailbox (Re: Fwd from CLINTON ...)
Date: 26 Aug 92 05:36:36 GMT
Organization: Computer Science, Indiana University

OK -- I think the time has come for some net action.  We know the
CompuServe link to Clinton: 75300.3115@compuserve.com.  So, let's
download some material from our FAQs and let's take on his program
point by point.

o	100,000 more police?  A new way to deal with social problems
	is to throw police at them.

o	boot camps?  This is just a euphemism for concentration/
	reeducation camps.  Hit them on this.

o	treatment on demand?  OK.  But most users of illegal drugs
	DON'T ABUSE THEM and therefore DON'T NEED TREATMENT.

o	drug abuse and education.  D.A.R.E. and more of it?  Say no
	more.

o	more searchs in schools.  Just what we need.  Scrap the
	civics courses, they'll just cause cognitive dissonance.

o	mj eradication.  Bill just doesn't like the stuff.

I read that Clinton turned his half-brother in for cocaine possession.
What a sweetheart -- if true.

I think the above points should be dealt with in comments sent to
the Clinton camp.  Also, it is useful to say something about Mayor
Shmoke, a Clinton supporter, and his position on the drug war.
There is a slim chance that the people that surround Clinton might
be willing to look at alternatives to the drug war.  I wonder about
Clinton, himself.  Look at his history: alcoholic, abusive step-father,
clearly a man with a drug-abuse problem.  And the half-brother 
imprisoned for cocaine (did Clinton fink on him?).  These facts don't
bode well -- it would mean that Clinton would be driven totally by
emotion and not reason and pragmatism (laying aside all of the 
civil liberties arguments).

So, go to it, netters.  Let's give the Clinton people something to
think about.
-- 
paul hager		hagerp@iuvax.cs.indiana.edu

"The most formidable weapon against errors of every kind is reason."
			-- Thomas Paine, _The Age of Reason_
Newsgroups: talk.politics.drugs