HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: Bjorn.B.Larsen@delab.sintef.no (Bjorn B. Larsen)
Newsgroups: news.groups
Subject: Re: RFD: comp.sys.cadence
Date: 8 Apr 92 07:10:28 GMT
	<BJORN.B.LARSEN.92Apr1080932@engels.delab.sintef.no>
	<Apr.6.19.13.54.1992.18222@pilot.njin.net>
Reply-To: bjorn.b.larsen@delab.sintef.no
Organization: SINTEF DELAB (was ELAB-RUNIT, nee ELAB), Trondheim, Norway

In article <Apr.6.19.13.54.1992.18222@pilot.njin.net> limonce@pilot.njin.net (Tom Limoncelli +1 908 754 1082) writes:

>Bjorn.B.Larsen@delab.sintef.no (Bjorn B. Larsen) writes:

>>I shall not propose this now, but I will suggest that the name for this
>>specific group is kept as
>>  comp.sys.cadence.

>Ack!  comp.sys is for computer systems, not software systems.  Mentor
>historically has sold their own computer systems and therefore the
>userbase requested comp.sys.mentor be the name.

And when did Mentor sell their own computers? We have had a system for
ages, and it has always been on an Apollo. However, another early
player in this came, Daisy Systems, did make their own hardware. We
had one of their first in Northern Europe. Now thay have moved to more
standard plattforms. For the benefit of their customers, I might add.

>If the group is to be created at all (read below) should be under comp.lsi.cad
>or comp.cad

Why do you claim that? Is Cadence only dealing with LSI-related
systems? Do you mean that we should have a hierarchy something like:

   comp.lsi.cadence
   comp.lsi.mentor
   comp.lsi.*

   comp.pcb.cadence
   comp.pcb. mentor
   comp.pcb.*

   comp.mech.* (or whatever you call a system for designing the total
                system)

   comp.*.cadence  - to make it shorter.

This is only the placement in the hierarchy. The issue of the volume
of postings have not been addressed properly yet, but I am convinced
that the low volume is caused by the lack of a proper group.

There was not much noise from the Mentor-users before c.s.mentor was
created, but to me it looks as if the volume is by far large enough to
justify the group.

Bj{\o}rn
--
______________________________________________________________________
               s-mail:                 e-mail:
|   |   |      Bjorn B. Larsen         bjorn.b.larsen@delab.sintef.no
|__ |__ |      SINTEF DELAB
|  \|  \|      N-7034 TRONDHEIM        tel: +47-7-592682 / 592600
|__/|__/|_     NORWAY                  fax: +47-7-591039 / 594302
______________________________________________________________________
From: jmaynard@oac.hsc.uth.tmc.edu (Jay Maynard)
Newsgroups: news.groups
Subject: Re: RFD:  comp.sys.novell reorganization
Date: 13 Apr 1992 18:42:36 GMT
Organization: UT Health Science Center Houston


Overall, I have no problems with the proposal. I would, however, like to see
the .2x and .3x groups named something a little clearer...how about .version2
and .version3?
-- 
Jay Maynard, EMT-P, K5ZC, PP-ASEL | Never ascribe to malice that which can
jmaynard@oac.hsc.uth.tmc.edu      | adequately be explained by a .sig virus.
         "Grow up children. Purchase lives." -- Geoff Collyer
Newsgroups: news.groups
From: ski@leland.Stanford.EDU (Rick VanderKam)
Subject: Re: CALL FOR DISCUSSION: COMP.COMPRESSION.THEORY.
Keywords: comp.compression.theory creation new group
Organization: DSG, Stanford University, CA 94305, USA
Date: Thu, 16 Apr 92 22:42:52 GMT

In article <1350@spam.ua.oz>, ross@spam.ua.oz.au (Ross Williams) writes:
|> 
|> CALL FOR DISCUSSION: COMP.COMPRESSION.THEORY
|> ============================================
|> It is proposed that a new newsgroup be created:
|> 
|>    Name    : comp.compression.theory
|>    Charter : Discussions about data compression algorithms.
|>    Status  : Unmoderated.
|> 
|> Many researchers have stopped reading comp.compression because of the
|> volume of non-research traffic (e.g. postings with subject fields such
|> as "Where can I get Unix compress for MSDOS?"). There is now a strong
|> need for a newsgroup that can provide a forum for more theoretical
|> discusions about data compression and data compression algorithms.
|> Such a newsgroup would assist those who are actually involved in
|> understanding and developing new algorithms as opposed to merely using
|> them.
|> 
|>   [stuff deleted]
|> Ross Williams
|> ross@spam.adelaide.edu.au
|> (Creator of comp.compression)

I favor the creation of the new group, for exactly the reasons that have
been stated.

Rick A. VanderKam
rvk@isl.stanford.edu
Information Systems Lab, Stanford University
Newsgroups: news.groups,rec.games.mud
From: edmonds@cs.ubc.ca (Brian Edmonds)
Subject: Re: the reorg debate
Summary: my two bits
Keywords: mud, reorg
Organization: Computer Science, University of B.C., Vancouver, B.C., Canada
Date: Sun, 12 Apr 92 20:31:18 GMT

Once upon a time, downsj@nyssa.CS.ORST.EDU (jason downs) wrote:
>A bit earlier, sander@engin.umich.edu (Scott D Anderson) wrote:
>>a) as yduJ pointed out, Tiny is archaic and doesnt really describe
>>the content of so-called 'tiny' posts any longer.
>much of the `social' stuff is applicable to all mud types, thus it
>belongs right where it is- rec.games.mud.
Just to throw a wrench in the works, why not soc.mud?

Otherwise, the structure that I like from what I've seen so far is:
rec.games.mud[.d|.misc]  - general discussion
rec.games.mud.announce   - (moderated) new muds, ups, downs, etc.
rec.games.mud.adventure  - hack and slash related issues
rec.games.mud.social     - mud social issues (maybe soc.mud? :)
rec.games.mud.lp         - LP coding (already exists)

I don't understand how people can complain about rgm.announce being
moderated, since Scott (our main mudlist producer) has already
volunteered to moderate it, as it would help him in his mudlist
preparation.

If Diku proponents want a rec.games.mud.diku, it should be submitted
under a separate RFD/CFV, just as rgm.lp was.  The above
restructuring applies to virtually all mudders, and as such can
(should?) be done as one block RFD/CFV

Jubal@TMI
---------------------------------------------------------------------
Brian Edmonds (MSc CompSci)                         edmonds@cs.ubc.ca
From: rsnyder@fergie.dnet.ge.com (Bob Snyder)
Subject: Re: the reorg debate
Organization: GE Aerospace, Advanced Technology Labs, Moorestown, NJ
Date: Mon, 13 Apr 1992 03:45:19 GMT

>>>>> In article <1992Apr12.203118.7856@cs.ubc.ca>, edmonds@cs.ubc.ca
>>>>> (Brian Edmonds) writes:

Brian> Otherwise, the structure that I like from what I've seen so far is:
Brian> rec.games.mud[.d|.misc]  - general discussion
Brian> rec.games.mud.announce   - (moderated) new muds, ups, downs, etc.
Brian> rec.games.mud.adventure  - hack and slash related issues
Brian> rec.games.mud.social     - mud social issues (maybe soc.mud? :)
Brian> rec.games.mud.lp         - LP coding (already exists)

This doesn't sound bad, except for one or two things.

1) Do we want to get rid of rec.games.mud and replace it with
rec.games.mud.misc?  While in a perfect world, all news administrators
would immediately update their newsgroup list to have these groups,
but often mudding is frowned upon at different sites, and the only
reason they have rec.games.mud was that it was created before a
crackdown or under a different news administrator...  I would prefer
.misc myself, but this is something to keep in mind....

2) I still prefer breaking it up by mud types, since generally topics
about any particular type of mud is only of interest to other members
of the type  (LP'ers aren't interested in how this person's MUSH
version is better coded than that person's, nor are Tiny(Social?)
people interested in how to determine the attacking monster's name in
LPC).  a .social could be taken either way, either as a replacement
for the .tiny proposal, or as a discussion of muds in a social sense....

Brian> If Diku proponents want a rec.games.mud.diku, it should be submitted
Brian> under a separate RFD/CFV, just as rgm.lp was.  The above
Brian> restructuring applies to virtually all mudders, and as such can
Brian> (should?) be done as one block RFD/CFV

If we are going to reorganized, isn't it best to do it all at once?  I
assume if and/or when a CFV is issued, you will vote on each line item
seperately, ie, "I vote FOR rec.games.annouce as proposed"

Fordan, god, Dragon's Den LPmud (129.25.7.111 2222)
R'dor, WeyrLeader, Southern Weyr, wizard, SouCOn MUSH
(soucon.cygnus.com 4201)
--
Bob Snyder          rsnyder@fergie.dnet.ge.com, or rsnyder@atl.dnet.ge.com
Computing Services  ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ if it bounces, try ^^^^^^^^
GE Aerospace, Advanced Technology Labs  (609) 866-6672 FX: (609) 866-6397
Xref: sparky news.groups:10020 misc.jobs.misc:3447
From: willett@cbnewsl.cb.att.com (david.c.willett)
Newsgroups: news.groups,misc.jobs.misc
Subject: RFD misc.jobs reorg
Keywords: less time busy people
Date: 10 Apr 92 22:55:18 GMT
Followup-To: misc.jobs.misc
Distribution: usa
Organization: AT&T Bell Laboratories

First, let me say this is my first response to an RFD, so forgive me if I
offend policy.  I believe the proposal to reorganize misc.jobs.offered into
groups for:

	experts
	novice (entry level) 
	recruit(ers)

is a good one.  It allows persons needing staff to focus their job descriptions
and permits candidates to do some "self screening" with dignity.  I support 
the proposal.

David Willett -- AT&T Federal Systems Advanced Technolgies

*** The above is solely my personal opinion and not a position of my *****
*** employer.                                                        *****
Newsgroups: news.groups
From: jasonp@cunix4.prime.com (Jason R. Pascucci)
Subject: RGM split was Re: Um, okay, I did it.
Organization: Prime Computer, Inc./Framingham, Ma
Date: Sun, 12 Apr 1992 08:44:22 GMT

I agree, Lydia....

So, let me repost *MY* suggestion, which seemed to have
been pretty well recieved, and let me post it in two parts:

1) Taking the 'Game' out of rgm: Change it to rec.mud...this has
a few interesting features, one of which is the modifying the 
percieved notions about mudding, such that it is *only* a game,
and not worth thinking about realistically, which, in fact,
is just not true. It's recreation, but frequently not
truely a game, in the conventional sense. <And, frequently,
very much a game, in the conventional sense>

2) The Group Split:
R{G}M.Announce: Unmoderated. I've decided that moderating it isn't 
             useful: It's obvious as to what it does, it pretty 
             obvious what's going to go there, etc. A nasty-email 
             message should put a stop to anybody who is abusing it.

R{G}M.VR: Unmoderated. Discussions of things from a virtual reality
          standpoint, such as sociology, flames, assanine remarks,
          logs, etc, etc. Also, 'announcements' from a VR point
          of view: StarFleet Command has decided to break policy and
          assasinate ex-Admiral Commander Boccob, for crimes against 
          the state, etc...:)

R{G}M.{Code, Tech}: Unmoderated. Discussion of things in the servers,
          and various client technology...this will predomently
          be of tiny, and tiny-based code, but will extend
          to the smaller servers: Unter, MOO, MUG, MAGE, 
          and DIKU.


R{G}M.LP: Unmoderated. Basically, what it does today. <I don't
         really read it, I don't really know, but I guess it's a 
         rm.tech for LP's>

No R{G}M group: It seems it's kind of pointless...it's dangling
out in space, since just about everything can be encompessed
with the other groups. 

Another thought: Will the LP group maybe take on the DIKU group,
the only one who seems to really care? No big deal, however. 

Sigh...more babbling. Still hacking. 

-- 
Jason R. Pascucci        'Get it out....Get it out....Get your fucking 
jasonp@primerd.prime.com 'voice of of my head...I wish you were dead' 
                          -The Cure
Me. You know. Me. That guy....you know....that guy....yeah...me....
Newsgroups: news.groups
From: jeff@casbah.acns.nwu.edu (Jeff Williamson)
Subject: Re: rec.games.frp reorg
Organization: Northwestern University, Evanston Illinois.
Date: Thu, 16 Apr 1992 06:25:29 GMT


Isn't it about time to bring this thing to a vote? Has anybody been
designated counter for the vote yet?

-- 
Jeff Williamson			** E-mail: magik@nwu.edu 
ACNS/Consulting and Education	** "Noble dragons don't have friends. The
Northwestern University		**  closest they can get to the idea is an
Evanston, Illinois		**  enemy who is still alive."
Xref: sparky news.groups:10016 soc.culture.indian:13999 soc.culture.indian.american:1745
Newsgroups: news.groups
Subject: Re: 2nd RFD: SCIA (A violation of net guidelines)
From: a_rubin@dsg4.dse.beckman.com (Arthur Rubin)
Date: 13 Apr 92 17:33:30 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: Beckman Instruments, Inc.

In <1992Apr10.232037.21973@cbnewsi.cb.att.com> alok@cbnewsi.cb.att.com (alok.vijayvargia) writes:

>In article <1992Apr10.152545.10314@cirrus.com>, venu@cirrus.com (Venu Nayar) writes:
>> In <1992Apr10.002542.24216@cbnewsi.cb.att.com> alok@cbnewsi.cb.att.com
>> (alok.vijayvargia) writes: 
>> 
>> >Violation here is in posting the second RFD for SCIA before six months
>> >have expired.
>> 
>> How is this a violation of the guidelines, as they stand? Post the
>> guidelines, Alok, and dont make these unsubstantiated statements.
>> 

>There can be only 2 cases (Clause 5, last section per se guidelines):

>A) The vote passed: There is no need to have a new RFD at all. (My position
>as well those of some others)

>B) The vote failed: New RFD should not be posted before six months from 
>the close of the last vote (Dec 12, 1991 + 6 months = June 12, 1992).

C) The vote was invalid; it is considered as if it never occured.

--
Arthur L. Rubin: a_rubin@dsg4.dse.beckman.com (work) Beckman Instruments/Brea
216-5888@mcimail.com 70707.453@compuserve.com arthur@pnet01.cts.com (personal)
My opinions are my own, and do not represent those of my employer.
Ich bin ein Virus.  Mach' mit und kopiere mich in Deine .signature.
Newsgroups: news.groups
From: rsnyder@fergie.dnet.ge.com (Bob Snyder)
Subject: Re: RFD:  rec.games.mud.{tiny,diku,announce}
Organization: GE Aerospace, Advanced Technology Labs, Moorestown, NJ
	<12454@tamsun.tamu.edu>
Date: Thu, 16 Apr 1992 00:09:43 GMT

>>>>> In article <12454@tamsun.tamu.edu>, rdubbs@cs.tamu.edu (Roger B.
>>>>> Dubbs III) writes:


Roger> First, a summary of the two main factions for rgm reorganization:

Roger> Bob Snyder                          |          John Boelter
Roger> ------------------------------------+-------------------------------------
Roger> rec.games.mud.tiny                  | rec.games.mud.social
Roger> rec.games.mud.diku                  | rec.games.mud.adventure
Roger> rec.games.mud.announce (moderated)  | rec.games.mud.announce (moderated)
Roger>                                     | rec.games.mud --> rec.games.mud.misc

Actually, I have no strong feelings about renaming rec.games.mud to
rec.games.mud.misc.  On one hand, it leaving it the same would allow
those who currently have access to it to continue to post to it.  On
the other hand, .misc is the general usenet trend, and might have a
chance of reducing the misplaced postings, since people would not be
able to use either "I don't get rec.games.mud.lp" as an excuse and the
.misc would make it clearer that other groups exist.

Bob
--
Bob Snyder          rsnyder@fergie.dnet.ge.com, or rsnyder@atl.dnet.ge.com
Computing Services  ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ if it bounces, try ^^^^^^^^
GE Aerospace, Advanced Technology Labs  (609) 866-6672 FX: (609) 866-6397
From: hades@coos.dartmouth.edu (Hades)
Newsgroups: news.groups
Subject: Re: RFD: rec.arts.manga
Date: 14 Apr 92 17:00:53 GMT
Organization: Dartmouth College, Hanover, NH

arromdee@jyusenkyou.cs.jhu.edu (Ken Arromdee) writes:

>In article <1992Apr12.191551.3562@dartvax.dartmouth.edu> geoffb@Dartmouth.EDU writes:
>>The fact that discussion of 'manga' isn't currently in rec.arts.comics is
>>because it ended up in an alt group, not because rec.arts.comics pushed it
>>out as something inappropriate to the group.

>WRONG.

>Discussion of manga is in rec.arts.anime, and was in rec.arts.anime before
>the creation of alt.manga.

    Still doesn't change the fact that the manga posters chose not to
post to rec.arts.comics for whatever reason (personally I think it had
more to do with traffic volume than anything else), and not because the
rec.arts.comics readership told them to go somewhere else.

--
-Hades  (Brian V. Hughes)   | Common Taxpayer Q&A: Q. If I use the 1040 how
 hades@Coos.Dartmouth.Edu   | do I indicate my preference for the Elvis stamp?
 Mac Database Developer     | A. You write THIN ELVIS or FAT ELVIS in the box
 Dartmouth Medical School   | "Spouse's Social Security #." -Dave Barry
Newsgroups: news.groups
From: conty@cbnewsl.cb.att.com (Conty)
Subject: Re: Some comments on this rec.arts.{whatever}.manga
Organization: AT&T Bell Laboratories
Date: Sat, 11 Apr 1992 03:59:18 GMT


Thanks to a friend's reality check, I will post no more on this thread.

Final words:
- The "rec.arts.manga" contingent has not been able to PROVE LOGICALLY why
  it should be so.

- To Lazlo:  don't refer to the "rec.arts.manga" contingent as the alt.manga
  contingent.  Some of us in alt.manga would prefer rec.arts.comics.manga.

- I want a rec.{foobar}.manga newsgroup.  Most of the "rec.arts.manga"
  contingent know me from rec.arts.anime, and they know my views on the
  subject.  I'll vote for any rec.{foobar}.manga newsgroup.

- To some people in the "rec.arts.manga" contingent (you know who you are):
  your attitude has cost us votes favoring the creation of a
  rec.{foobar}.manga newsgroup.  Keep that in mind.

Ciao,
-- 
			    E n r i q u e  C o n t y
			      jester@ihlpl.att.com
		   Disclaimer:  You're not dealing with AT&T.
From: nrc@cbnews.cb.att.com (N. Richard Caldwell)
Newsgroups: news.groups
Subject: Re: RFD: rec.music.enya
Date: 8 Apr 92 15:44:01 GMT
Distribution: na
Organization: AT&T Network Systems  -  Columbus, Ohio

From article <frnk.702743558@cs1.bradley.edu>, by frnk@cs1.bradley.edu (Paul Ondercin):
> 
>    For those of you who love or hate me... I'm going to start on the CFV. As
> no real changes were suggested to my last postI'm just going to rewrite the
> charter. It'll be a rewording of my last post with only cosmetic changes.

My impression was that the response to this has been overwhelmingly
negative.  Part of the idea of a discussion period is to weed out
ideas like this one.  I don't have anything against single artist
newsgroups if there is a significant demonstrated interest or need 
over a reasonable period of time.  In those cases a newsgroup can 
actually be more efficient than a mailing list.  

It is ridiculous that you insist on forging ahead with this newsgroup 
vote without even bothering to test the level of interest by creating 
a mailing list.  You haven't even demonstrated enough sustained interest 
to justify a mailing list, let alone and alt group, let alone a
rec.music group. 

Please, listen to what people are telling you.  Drop this idea before
you or anyone else has to waste any more time on it.   Create an enya
mailing list.  If six months from now you've got five hundred
subscribers I'll vote for rec.music.enya.  Until that time this idea
deserves to be squashed in a big way.  

Warm up your NO votes, folks.  Let's set a record for lop-sided NO
results.

Just my opinion.
Xref: sparky news.groups:10124 soc.culture.indian.american:1750 soc.culture.indian:14190
From: pwh@bradley.bradley.edu (Pete Hartman)
Subject: Re: RFD: rec.music.enya
Organization: Bradley University
Distribution: usa
Date: Thu, 9 Apr 92 16:44:00 GMT

In <frnk.702834223@cs1.bradley.edu> frnk@cs1.bradley.edu (Paul Ondercin) writes:
>   And what is the big deal about new groups? This group would only rate about
>20 posts a day, so it wouldn't cause a huge amount of traffic. You make it soun
>like each group is a massive load that has to be supported by someone. A  new
>group wouldn't necessarially raise net traffic, just redirect it. 

You Too have missed the great phish phight.

1) newsgroups for every artist that comes up the pike make the whole
rec.music.* heirarchy useless.  The idea is not so much to provide
insular little environments for fanatics to discuss what their favorite
artists eat (though that does go on in some groups, like .gaffa), but
to provide forums for discussing music in general.  Breaking things down
by artist (as opposed to some more rational criterion) encourages a
splintering not into dozens or even hundreds of groups, but THOUSANDS.

2) The management problem is that each newsgroup by its very existence takes
up an inode and a modicum of disk space.  Some systems that are in reality
using news, and may very well be trying to provide a full feed of the
"normal" heirarchy, may not be able to handle a thousand-fold increase in
these elements.  The solution to such a problem would be either to not
get rec.music.* or to only get a limited selection of rec.music.*.  In
either case, you end up with distribution that isn't much better than
an alt group.

Each group individually is not a problem.  The groups collectively, especially
if there is going to be an explosion of requests for new groups, can definitely
be a problem.  Phish started the trend, and won by sheer numbers.  If Enya
can continue the trend WITHOUT the sheer numbers or an established mailing
list, it will then be clear to all the "newbies" that all they need to do
is be stubborn and they too can create a group they want.  What's the
point of a voting process then?  Why bother with organization or rules at
all?
-- 
Pete Hartman		       Bradley University	pwh@bradley.bradley.edu
         By the finite patience vested in me, I hereby dub thee "Mud".
                                 You may rise.
From: gabe@angus.mi.org (B. Gabriel Helou)
Newsgroups: news.groups
Subject: Re: The rec.arts.{comics.}manga wars continue
Date: 13 Apr 92 20:51:46 GMT
Organization: North Star BBS

axolotl@socs.uts.edu.au (Iain Sinclair) writes:

> lazlo@triton.unm.edu (Lazlo Nibble) writes:
>  >Why?  The level of the name is not a value judgement.
> 
> rec.arts.comics          
> rec.arts.comics.manga   .... manga is subordinate to comics.
>                         .... manga are derived from comics.
>                         .... manga are less than comics.
>                         .... manga are a subset of comics.
> 
> rec.arts.comics
> rec.arts.manga          .... manga sits alongside comics.
>                         .... manga is an equivalent art form to comics.
>                         .... manga and comics are of equal importance.
> 
> No value judgement?

No.  Try:

rec.arts.comics          
rec.arts.comics.manga   .... manga is a special case of comics.

---- -- -  -    -       -          -          -              -            
Gabe Helou         | "Contrariwise", continued Tweedledee, "If it was so,
gabe@angus.mi.org  | it might be; and if it were so, it would be; but as
Troy, MI           | it isn't, it ain't. That's logic."  -- Lewis Carroll
---- -- -  -    -       -          -          -              -        <EOR>
From: dcb@wdl1.wdl.loral.com (David C Blume)
Newsgroups: news.groups
Subject: Re: rec.arts.manga...etc.....
Date: 10 Apr 92 17:50:01 GMT
Organization: Loral Western Development Labs

smith@ctron.com writes:
>...[Y]ou should be talking about manga in rec.arts.comics.  Is there
>something really difficult about all this?

We should be talking about manga in rec.arts.[comics.]manga NOT 
rec.arts.comics.

Egads.  Please please please understand.  There will *never* be much
crossover between rec.arts.comics and *.manga.  alt.manga was spawned
from rec.arts.anime not rec.arts.comics.  People post about the  *content*
of the medium.  The *content* relates more closely to rec.arts.anime.

The fact that the medium is the same as a comic's is irrelevent.

The only reason *manga should be in rec.arts.comics is because some people
categorize by canvas vs. paper instead of cubism vs. impressionism.

--David
+---------------------------------------------------------------------+-----+
| <:-)  -Manga fans, | David Blume            | "..." -Anime fans,    |  o  |
| reading KOR #18    | dcb@wdl1.wdl.loral.com | viewing the KOR movie | ^ ^ |
+---------------------------------------------------------------------+-----+