From: krikket@meltdown.chi.il.us (D. 'krikket' Krick)
Newsgroups: alt.sexual.abuse.recovery
Subject: Re: sunrise, sunset...sunrise, sunset...
Date: 4 Sep 92 11:42:18 GMT
Organization: The Meltdown - A Team Star BBS


  *****  WARNING : SENSITIVE SUBJECTS DISCUSSED IN THIS MESSAGE *****

Subjects include: Self-mutilation, Suicide, and Parodying abuse in Theatre

(No Ctrl-L due to cheap system at this end... Sorry!)

In article <j8kn_qd.boserj@netcom.com>, boserj@netcom.com (Jeffrey Boser)
writes:
>I do condone it.  I even condone suicide.  I happen to believe that
>a persons right to do as they wish with their body and life is
>absolute and implicit.

On this point, I'll agree with you Jeff.  At least as far as the Government
should be concerned.  Ethically, everyone has to decide that for him/herself. 
Personally, I feel while people have the RIGHT to harm themselves, it (most
likely) is not the best option available.  (I can only think of 1 exception,
and abuse wasn't a factor...)  Most likely it is the WORST option available.

><Deleted>

>Her wounds are her choice.

BULLSHIT!

>In fact, in her posting she did not ask
>for alternative choices, she complained that people didnt understand
>why she would do such a thing, and that the problems from others were
>getting frustrating.

The biggest wound that any of us have to deal with is the wound that caused the
problem.  It may not be a physical wound but that is the biggest wound, and
that is the fault of the abuser.  Not the abuse-ee.  (Is that a word?  Ya know
what I mean...)

>No, this is not true.  Poobear posted saying that she was having a
>a bad time, and that she was cutting herself.  All of a sudden
>everybody comes out with 'suggestions' like the ice and writing and
>exercising, saying 'dont hurt yourself'.  Thats what Im complaining
>about.

Complaining that people CARE and are willing to help by offering alternatives?
I'll be damned if I understand this one...  Caring can only HELP the healing
process.

>Oh, Im not denying them to poobear or anybody else.  We all must
>deal with our crosses in our own way.  By the same token, telling
>poobear that inflicting pain on herself was wrong, and to try something
>else wasnt very understanding either.

There are many different forms of understanding in this world.  Some people
truly do understand, and that is WHY they took the actions they did.  Perhaps
it wasn't the ideal method, according to your ethical system, but does that
mean you should try to stop people from HELPING in their own way?

>But we are responsable.  Sure, poobear isnt responsable for the things
>that were done to her, but she is responsable for how she deals with it.
>She has to find her own way of looking at things, to find her own path.

And everyone has a different way of dealing with things.  I'm not going to
judge ANYONE.  Not someone who mutilates themselves, not the people trying to
HELP, not anyone else.  ASAR is for SUPPORT ya know...  :)

><Deleted>

>I have strong misgivings myself about this.  Ever time I made up my
>mind and decided that the pain was wrong and I wanted to stop it,
>I curled up and locked myself away.  There is no way to save people
>from themselves, and giving them love to help them see your way is
>pretty manipulative.  My aunt does this..  I love you but youve got
>to stop doing this..  or start doing this..

When people do that, I just turn it back on them.  A classic example that
always get's a laugh from a few years ago when I had a mowhawk:

Aunt Wheezy: "Doug, I love you but your hair [style] has got to go."

Me: "Aunt Wheezy, I love you, but that dress has got to go."

She shut up real fast, and then laughed.

>People are, they love, they hate, they feel pain, they feel joy.
>Every time one of these things is taken from us, we cease being
>human.

No one can take a persons emotions away.  They belong to the person that has
them.  No one can remove them.

>>i can't speak for poohbear of course, but it seemed from posts
>>thathe/she was seeking ways to end the pain also. 
>
>Well, this is true.  But then again, she comes to the group and tells
>how badly she is feeling, and gets lots of replys saying poor baby,
>heres a hug.  Let me help you feel better.  Then trying to show her
>all these other ways.
>
>And these ways didnt work, did they?  She still came back to the cutting,
>as the other things didnt fill the need that cutting did.  It sounds
>alot like a compulsive eater going on a diet..  the will power works
>for a while, but sooner or later, the basic supply and demand reassert
>themselves.

True.  But that doesn't mean you stop supporting the compulsive eater, if the
compulsive eater *wants* to diet.  It is a long process.  You can't just flip a
switch to end the problem...


           ***SECONDARY WARNING : THIS WILL PROBABLY OFFEND***
            ***SOME PEOPLE.  IF YOU CANNOT COPE WITH HUMOR***
               ***DEALING WITH RAPE, STOP READING NOW!!***
      ***(No jokes made or quoted, but the subject is dealt with)***








Blank space inserted due to an inability to insert a Ctrl-L...













>>ad to poohbear, *you do NOT* have any price to pay - you've "paid"
>>already a hundred times over. you are a good and special person who
>>does not deserve pain; i hope  you continue to heal safely.
>
><frown>  I have yet to meet a person who was not paying, who finished
>up the payments and could then go on to a bright and better future.
>
>All I see are sad, lonely people, all too aware of the pain thats out
>there, and not letting that beat them into submission.  They stand
>proud, their shoulders slumped under the heavy weight of pain, and
>they still manage to smile every now and then.

Hopefully from the warnings, people have steeled themselves for this.  I am
going to describe a friend of mine who was sexually abused as a child and then
proceeded to write a role in a play dealing with abusing children (him as the
perpetrator) in a comical light.  He does *NOT* abuse anyone in real life, nor
does he approve of abuse in any way/shape/form.  In this case the part in the
show was part of the healing process.  And yet he still is able to joke about
such things as raping children.

He has recovered much farther than most people do or can.  These shows have
helped me in my healing process as well, by forcing me to face what I was
dealing with.  Because of these shows, I stopped having nightmares remembering
my SO waking up and screaming becuase of her nightmares.

Because of him I realized that you don't have to be "sad, lonely people all to
aware of the pain..."  Occasionally there are people who can do more than
survive.  Just knowing that much has helped me, and a few people I know, so I'm
passing it along now.

Krikket               ! krikket@meltdown.chi.il.us ! USnail:3 Danada Square E.
a.k.a Doug Krick      ! Team Star Charter Member   !        Suite 246
Data ph# 708/665-9732 ! #include<std.disclaimers>  !        Wheaton, Il 60187
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  Just another commentary on the sad state of affairs on our nation today.