HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: ccksb@blaze.trentu.ca (Ken Brown)
Subject: Re: "mount device busy" error on tape drives
Keywords: tape, tz
Organization: Trent University
Distribution: usa
Date: Thu, 13 Aug 1992 12:58:51 GMT

We have a similar problem here.  We use gnutar to backup various file systems
to the Exabyte and when completed the script isues an 'mt -f /dev/rmth1
offline' to protect the tape.  Often we find that the last file was dumped to
tape (as expected) but the device is busy, an 'mt -f /dev/rmth1 status'
results in 'mount device busy'.  The tape drive will remain non-funtional
until a shutdown - power off - reboot sequence.  So I'd be interested in
possible explanatins / solutions as well as the writer(s) below...

In article <1992Aug12.085647@usho93.hou281.chevron.com>, hjgwi@usho93.hou281.chevron.com (Jay G. Williamson) writes:
|> We have some software that dies sometimes while accessing some 8mm
|> drives.  When this happens, the tape drives become unaccessable.
|> Attempting to access it will return with "mount device busy". The
|> only way to clear this up is to reboot the machine.  I would assume
|> that there is some byte in the kernel that signifies that the tape
|> drive is still busy but I do not know what it is or exactly how to
|> access this value to change it.
|> 
|> In the system include file, /sys/io/scsi/mips/scsivar.h, there is a
|> SZ_BUSY status byte.  It is not clear whether this is for a device
|> or for the whole SCSI bus.  Even if this is the byte value to unset,
|> it still looks like a challenge to find where in the structure to unset
|> this.  Even more challenging (to me at least) is how to find where
|> this structure starts within the kernel.  I can imagine the sudo code
|> below but I still have alot of unknowns with no more ideas on how to
|> get these unknowns.
|> 
|> open (/dev/kmem)
|> addr of struct == OFFSET_TO_TAPE_STRUCT
|> remove_busy_bits (struct->some_flag)
|> 
|> ** Is this possible ?
|> ** Has this already been done by someone ?
|> ** If it has not, can someone give me any help with the unknowns and
|> 	the technique to alter the flag ??
|> 
|> INFO:
|> 	DECstation 5100
|> 	Ultrix 4.2b
|> 
|> I will summarize if there is any interest.
|> 
|> Thanks in advance,
|> -- 
|> Jay Williamson         Office: 2301 Hayes Rd.      Phone: 713-596-3139
|> UNIX Sys Admin         Houston, Tx                 hjgwi@hou281.chevron.com
|> Chevron Info Tech.

-- 
====================================================================
Ken Brown                                       voice: (705)748-1540
Trent University Computer Services                fax: (705)748-1246
Peterborough, Ontario, Canada K9J 7B      internet: kbrown@trentu.ca
Newsgroups: comp.unix.ultrix
From: sgi@kodiak.si.macsch.com (Son Giang)
Subject: Ethernet Interface hardware address
Organization: The MacNeal-Schwendler Corporation
Date: Thu, 20 Aug 92 18:01:36 GMT

Is there a simple command to get the ethernet hardware address?

Thanks
Son Giang
sgi@macsch.com
Newsgroups: comp.unix.ultrix
From: kocks@jessica.stanford.edu (Peter Kocks)
Subject: How to connect non-dec disk drive to mips-ultrix?
Keywords: scsi, disk, ultrix, disktab
Organization: Academic Information Resources
Date: Wed, 12 Aug 92 23:30:26 GMT


I want to buy a 1.2 Gbyte Maxtor disk drive, put it in an external
case and add it to my dec3100 scsi chain.  I'm running ultrix 3.1.
How do I find the appropriate /etc/disktab entry?
Is this a reasonable thing to do ?

Thanks for any and all answers.

--Peter Kocks
  kocks@chemistry.stanford.edu

Xref: sparky comp.unix.ultrix:6308 gnu.gcc.help:1934
From: hunt@shy.umd.edu (Brian Hunt)
Newsgroups: comp.unix.ultrix,gnu.gcc.help
Subject: Re: DECstation /usr/include/X11/Xlib.h and gcc.
Date: 18 Aug 92 17:39:26 GMT

man@magwien.gv.at (Andreas Manessinger) writes:
>Meanwhile I got a hint from `olle@bellatrix.tdb.uu.se'. He writes:
> olle> You will have to edit the files Xlib.h and Xutil.h.
> olle> You will need to move some definitions (those in your listing
> olle> and some others) from Xutil to XLib
>
>Well, that's really all you have to do. The definitions you have to
>move are:
>        XSizeHints
>        XWMHints
>        XTextProperty
>        XClassHint
>        XStandardColormap

Rearranging Xlib.h and Xutil.h is no doubt the best solution; someone
was nice enough to send me his fix, which basically consisted of
moving all the definitions after the

/*
 *	ICCCM stuff
 */

comment from Xlib.h into Xutil.h (he also fixed 3 bad #endif lines in
Xlib.h, dunno how much difference that makes).

However, a really quick fix which some people may prefer to try first
is to use the "-traditional-cpp" option to gcc.  I vaguely recall this
causing other problems in some cases, but it many cases it worked fine
for me.

Brian Hunt
hunt@ipst.umd.edu
Newsgroups: comp.unix.ultrix
From: eillihca@drizzle.Stanford.EDU (Achille Hui)
Subject: Re: dxsession beginner help??
Organization: DSO, Stanford University
Date: 14 Aug 92 21:07:20 GMT

gel@sys.uea.ac.uk (Gareth Lee) writes:
>steve@sdz01.uu.ch writes:

>>1. I have some users who should only be permitted to run a particular
>>program. Normally I would replace the shell program in /etc/passwd
>>with the permitted program. Unfortunately, after logging in through
>>the dxprompter, "something" apparently happens (no error or warning
>>message) and I am immediately returned to the login prompter. If I su
>>to the user from another account, everything works as planned, but
>>obviously that's not going to work.

Is that program mentioned in /etc/shells ?

>>2. With every other workstation I've ever used, I could kill the
>>Xserver and work at a naked tty interface if I wanted to. So far I
>>have found no way, either in the manuals or through random keystrokes,
>>of doing this under Ultrix.

You don't want to do that. When no X-window is running, Ultrix
console act as an extra-ordinary dumb terminal which is extremely
painful to use.

>>3. Can I run X on Ultrix without dxsession? I find the whole thing
>>annoying.

Honestly, dxsession isn't so annoying. The one to blame is the evil
dxwm. dxsession actually hides you from some other even more annoying
things ;-)

>You can change the /etc/ttys entry to run whatever you want (ie. another
>window manager).  I'm not sure whether the DEC X server will operate
>without dxsession since it controls the icon box also?? You could consider

The icon box is controlled by dxwm. You can start a different window
manager by modifying the X-resources.

>It would be worth experimenting with replacing the -C /usr/bin/dxsession
>option with -C /usr/local/bin/myscript thereby invoking a shell script

You can replace /usr/bin/dxsession to whatever you want. Just remember
to duplicate two functions that dxsession has perform:

1)	Redirect the console messages to appropriate places.
	something like:
		cat -u /dev/xcons
	or	xconsole			should work.


2)	when Xprompter authenticate your login, it will then
	call /usr/bin/dxsession or whatever after the -C
	flags with the terminal line identifier, which is usually
	:0 for the console. If you replace dxsession by anything
	else, be sure to call

 	    /usr/lib/X11/getcons <terminal-line-identifier>
		
	manually. Otherwise, a bogus entry will left in /etc/utmp
	which will crash a few common programs.

Another possibility is to comment out the line about :0 in /etc/ttys
and start the X-servers through xdm in /etc/rc.

>>4. Can anyone point me to a usable replacement for dxdb?

No idea.

------------------------------------achille (eillihca@drizzle.stanford.edu)
From: mcw@pine.circa.ufl.edu (WRIGHT)
Newsgroups: comp.unix.ultrix
Subject: August Ultrix CONDIST not bootable?
Date: 12 Aug 92 18:53:48 GMT
Reply-To: mcw@pine.circa.ufl.edu
Organization: University of Florida  (ufl.edu)
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.3-4

We just got the August Ultrix consolidated distribution.  There are
only 3 CD's:  two for RISC and one for VAX.  Neither of the RISC
CD's has a kernel on it and does not appear to be bootable in the
same way earlier CD's were.  Anybody know about this?

Mike Wright
University of Florida
mcw@pine.circa.ufl.edu

Newsgroups: comp.unix.ultrix,comp.sys.hp,comp.sys.dec
From: riley@theory.TC.Cornell.EDU (Daniel S. Riley)
Subject: Re: There have been 243 unsuccessful login attempts on your account
Organization: Cornell Theory Center
Date: Thu, 20 Aug 1992 21:50:01 GMT

In article <ROUILJ.92Aug20161834@dl5000.bc.edu> rouilj@dl5000.bc.edu,
(John P. Rouillard) writes:
>If you are running LAT or DECnet, then I think you are SOL. I haven't
>found any way of making those things cough up info about every connect
>8-(.

Odd.  Here decnet logs every connect with messages like

Aug 17 01:03:36 localhost: 8627 dlogind: connect from LSN035::COLE

in syslog.  Maybe somebody used ncp to crank the logging level way down
on your system?  LAT, on the other hand, is a problem.

If you really want to log every login attempt on a vanilla Ultrix 4.x
system, enable auditing.  You'll want to to turn off auditing for
everything but login and a few other signifcant events (unless you
really like reading auditlogs, and have lots of disk space), and it
still won't be a lot of fun.  But it will log every login attempt.

-- 
-Dan Riley                          Internet: dsr@lns598.tn.cornell.edu
-Wilson Lab, Cornell University     HEPNET/SPAN: lns598::dsr (44630::dsr)
Newsgroups: comp.unix.ultrix
From: patriks@elixir.e.kth.se (Patrik Stymne)
Subject: Re: Disabling Session Manager Pause
Organization: School of EE, Royal Institute of Technolgy, Sweden
Date: Thu, 20 Aug 1992 22:00:53 GMT

In article <1992Aug20.193026.22216@e3u001.ped.pto.ford.com> cannell@ed8217.ped.pto.ford.com (Larry Cannell) writes:

> Does anyone know of a way to disable or remove the pause pull down menu
> pick for dxsession? We have a walkup station where this has become a problem.

Yes, you can disable it (and make the label grey) by putting

*PauseButton.sensitive:	false

in /usr/lib/X11/app-defaults/DXsession (if you have Motif 1.1.3), 
or SessionManager (for decwindows).

--
Patrik Stymne
patriks@elixir.e.kth.se
Newsgroups: comp.unix.ultrix,comp.unix.programmer,comp.unix.misc,comp.unix.shell,comp.unix.questions
From: murthy@ee.uwm.edu (Murthy Nyayapati)
Subject: Wanted a Newuser program for a University
Organization: University of Wisconsin, Milwaukee
Date: Mon, 17 Aug 1992 16:33:05 GMT

Hi!

I am currently managing two machines which run Unix (HP-UX and DEC/Ultrix).

Being a university,  we have to constantly add accounts and before giving
the 
accounts we should be able to check for their validity.  I have been assigned 
to write a "newuser" program for these machines.  All the necessary security
checks should be done.  A "valid" student should be able to sit at a terminal
and "give" himself/herself an account.  We get a tape of all the list to students
who are registered.

Before I start working on this, I just wanted to find out if there is any
free/shareware software available.  Basically, I am looking for this program
from any university/institution where it is currently being used.  I can
"tailor-fit" the program to suit our needs.

Any input from anyone in this regrad is appreciated.

Thanks a lot in anticipation.

Murthy Nyayapati
Systems Administrator
University of Wisconsin-Milwaukee
murthy@ee.uwm.edu
Newsgroups: comp.unix.ultrix
From: p202@uni05.larc.nasa.gov (Bill Sneddon)
Subject: Motif, Oracle & Ultrix
Keywords: Motif, Oracle & Ultrix 
Reply-To: p202@uni05.larc.nasa.gov (Bill Sneddon)
Organization: NASA Langley Research Center, Hampton, VA USA
Distribution: comp.unix.ultrix 
Date: Tue, 18 Aug 1992 17:32:59 GMT

I would like to hear from anyone having experience running a Motif 
application, under Ultrix on a DEC RISC 5000.  We are researching converting 
an application on a RISC 5000, running under Oracle 6.0 and Forms 3.0, to run 
in an X Windows mode.  We were thinking of using Mac-X and DEC's eXcursion 
products on the Macs and PCs.  The application is currently used by 40-50 
users.  Any and all comments would be welcome!!!


Newsgroups: comp.unix.ultrix,alt.security,comp.security.misc
From: hirai@cc.swarthmore.edu (Eiji Hirai)
Subject: Re: Ultrix UPGRADE npasswd -- serious bug fixed
Organization: Swarthmore College Computing Center, Swarthmore, PA, USA
Date: Thu, 20 Aug 1992 16:17:50 GMT

shahryar@crc.ricoh.com (Shahryar G. Hashemi) writes:
> is npasswd able to deal with NIS password files

Yes, we use it here with NIS.  Our NIS master and clients are both Ultrix
4.2.

> second question is why has Ultrix not implemented the whell group
> [where you can specify which users can do 'su root' and which can
> not]??

Dunno.  I replaced it with the BSD version of su and it works great with the
"wheel" group (or the "system" group in Ultrix).  Get it from:

	ftp.uu.net:/packages/bsd-sources/usr.bin/su

I was in a BSD mode for a while and attempted to change the name of group 0
to "wheel".  However, I found that lots of Ultrix installation programs
(like setld stuff, /usr/bin/install, etc) rely on group 0 being "system".
So I changed it back to "system".  Sigh.

--
Eiji Hirai <hirai@cc.swarthmore.edu>    :     :    :   :  : :: ::: :::: :::::
Unix Hacker for Swarthmore College      :     :    :   :  : :: ::: :::: :::::
Computing Center, Swarthmore, PA, USA.  Copyright 1992 by Eiji Hirai.
I don't speak for Swarthmore College.   All Rights Reserved.
Newsgroups: comp.unix.ultrix
From: steve@sdz01.uu.ch ()
Subject: dxsession beginner help??
Date: Fri, 14 Aug 1992 09:58:47 GMT
Organization: Sandoz Technology Ltd.


I have four questions regarding DXsession. I have rtfm'd to no avail.
If these are naive questions, well, I've only been working with Ultrix
a few months.

1. I have some users who should only be permitted to run a particular
program. Normally I would replace the shell program in /etc/passwd
with the permitted program. Unfortunately, after logging in through
the dxprompter, "something" apparently happens (no error or warning
message) and I am immediately returned to the login prompter. If I su
to the user from another account, everything works as planned, but
obviously that's not going to work.

2. With every other workstation I've ever used, I could kill the
Xserver and work at a naked tty interface if I wanted to. So far I
have found no way, either in the manuals or through random keystrokes,
of doing this under Ultrix.

3. Can I run X on Ultrix without dxsession? I find the whole thing
annoying.

4. Can anyone point me to a usable replacement for dxdb?

Steven Husting
Pinck Softech AG
Reinach, Switzerland

Newsgroups: comp.unix.ultrix
From: mjr@hussar.dco.dec.com (Marcus J. Ranum)
Subject: Re: There have been 243 unsuccessful login attempts on your account
Organization: Digital Equipment Corporation, Washington ULTRIX Resource Center
Date: Fri, 21 Aug 1992 02:27:03 GMT

rouilj@dl5000.bc.edu (John P. Rouillard) writes:

>If you are running LAT or DECnet, then I think you are SOL. I haven't
>found any way of making those things cough up info about every connect
>8-(.  This is a large portion of the reason I want to get rid of them
>from the machines I administer 8-).

	It's actually pretty easy to get who is coming in over DECnet,
but writing a weenie little tool that does a getenv("REMHOST") and
getenv("USERNAME") prints the values, and then turns around and execs
dlogind. Use ncp to define that program in the executor or whatever
it's called and replace dlogind with it. Should do the trick. LAT comes
in through a tty line, but there's a magic way of grabbing the terminal
server name using:

		struct ltattyi ltattyi;
		ioctl(0, LIOCTTYI, &ltattyi);

	and the value of:
                 ltattyi.lta_server_name

	Since my firewall doesn't run LAT, I never made these changes. I
leave it as an exercise to the reader. ;)

	It you want an excuse to hate LAT or DECnet, there are loads of
better ones to use than just the logging. ;)

mjr.
From: andrewr@iagu.itd.adelaide.edu.au (Andrew Rutherford)
Newsgroups: comp.unix.ultrix
Subject: Re: Using mouse input in xterm/DECterm, possible?
Keywords: mouse
Date: 21 Aug 92 00:41:14 GMT
Reply-To: andrewr@itd.adelaide.edu.au
Organization: Information Technology Division, Adelaide University, Australia

In article <bibhas.714234503@femto.engr.mun.ca>, bibhas@pico.engr.mun.ca (Bibhas Bhattacharya) writes:

+I was wondering if it's possible to incorporate mouse in a curses
+programming. I was once told that a possible way would be to go through
+some of the X386 source codes to find out how X gets the mouse input.
+I have a slight hope that perhaps xlib could be used to read from mouse.
+Is there any other possible system calls (read/write) that can allow me to
+read from mouse?

	Well, DEC already have something funny going on - a while back
I was running a dxterm on my workstation (OSF/1, not Ultrix) under which
a telnet was running to a VAX running VMS. I wanted to use cut and paste to
grab something out of a file I was editing (edit/tpu) so hit the left mouse
button at the beginning of the line - and the mouse jumped to it. As I ran
the mouse along, the cursor followed it. Most emacs-ish, but like emacs in
that situation, not what I wanted :-) So I exited and the used cut and
paste succesfully.

Things to note from all of this:
1) This was running under telnet, so the VAX couldn't see any
	X events at all.
2) The behaviour was only during the editing seesion.

Conslusion:
	There must be some escape sequence you can send that puts dxterm
into some kind of mouse position reporting mode. Dunno what it is, never
had time to chase it up and I'm not a VMS expert. Neat feture, though. :-)

	Andrew.

/*
 * Andrew Rutherford                 andrewr@itd.adelaide.edu.au
 * +61 8 228 5669            Real Programmers always confuse Christmas and
 * Room 1060, Adelaide Uni      Halloween because OCT 31 == DEC 25 !
 */
Newsgroups: comp.unix.ultrix,gnu.gcc.help
From: man@magwien.gv.at (Andreas Manessinger)
Subject: Re: DECstation /usr/include/X11/Xlib.h and gcc.
Organization: Gemeinde Wien, MD-ADV/Md Ref. EPS
Date: Tue, 18 Aug 1992 08:26:29 GMT

>>>>> On Tue, 11 Aug 1992 13:34:44 GMT, putsch@uicc.com (Jeff Putsch) said:

 Jeff> While trying to complie an X11 application with gcc-2.2.2 on DECstations
 Jeff> I get the following error:

>In file included from ../include/p2c/newcrt.h:4, from newci.c:40:
>/usr/include/X11/Xlib.h:3958: parse error before `XSizeHints'
>/usr/include/X11/Xlib.h:3971: parse error before `XSizeHints'
>/usr/include/X11/Xlib.h:3981: parse error before `XSizeHints'
>/usr/include/X11/Xlib.h:3990: parse error before `XStandardColormap'
>/usr/include/X11/Xlib.h:4000: parse error before `XTextProperty'
>/usr/include/X11/Xlib.h:4009: parse error before `XTextProperty'
>/usr/include/X11/Xlib.h:4017: parse error before `XTextProperty'
>/usr/include/X11/Xlib.h:4025: parse error before `XTextProperty'
>/usr/include/X11/Xlib.h:4033: parse error before `XTextProperty'
>/usr/include/X11/Xlib.h:4047: parse error before `XSizeHints'
>/usr/include/X11/Xlib.h:4056: parse error before `XSizeHints'
>/usr/include/X11/Xlib.h:4064: parse error before `XStandardColormap'
>/usr/include/X11/Xlib.h:4074: parse error before `XTextProperty'
>/usr/include/X11/Xlib.h:4083: parse error before `XTextProperty'
>/usr/include/X11/Xlib.h:4091: parse error before `XTextProperty'
>/usr/include/X11/Xlib.h:4099: parse error before `XTextProperty'
>/usr/include/X11/Xlib.h:4107: parse error before `XTextProperty'
>/usr/include/X11/Xlib.h:4113: parse error before `*'
>/usr/include/X11/Xlib.h:4123: parse error before `XSizeHints'
>*** Error code 1

 Jeff> Looking at Xlib.h (only for the first parse error...) I find:

>extern int XWMGeometry(
>#if NeedFunctionPrototypes
>		       Display*	/* display */,
>		       int	/* screen_number */,
>		       const char* /* user_geometry */,
>		       const char* /* default_geometry */,
>		       unsigned int /* border_width */,
>		       XSizeHints* /* hints */,              /* Line 3958 */
>		       int*	/* x_return */,
>		       int*	/* y_return */,
>		       int*	/* width_return */,
>		       int*	/* height_return */,
>		       int*	/* gravity_return */
>#endif
>		       );

 Jeff> I don't see anything wrong with this. Could some kind soul please enlighten
 Jeff> me AND suggest a solution?

I got the same result and still have no solution but it would be very
valuable for us, if we could use `gcc' for OSF/Motif development (for
obvious reasons if you consider the quality of the `cc' that's
included with Ultrix 4.2a RISC.
--
    /\            | eMail: man@magwien.gv.at (Andreas Manessinger)
   /  \ndreas     | pMail: Alserstra"se. 20/6; A-1090 Wien; Austria
  /\/\ \          | Work : Gemeinde Wien MD-ADV/Ma; Ref. EPS
 / /  \anessinger | Phone: +43 222 4039584/13, FAX: 4039584/18, Home: 9350434
Xref: sparky comp.unix.ultrix:6221 comp.unix.wizards:3597
From: heading@breeze.rsre.mod.uk (Anthony Heading)
Newsgroups: comp.unix.ultrix,comp.unix.wizards
Subject: A confused tar process...
Date: 13 Aug 92 17:27:53 GMT
Organization: Defence Research Agency

A while ago I tried to read a corrupt SCSI exabyte tape on a
DECstation using tar. The command hung completely, and I got out by
killing the terminal session. I couldn't find any way to clear the
tape drive except rebooting. The tar process was in "short term
disk wait", and had every signal under the sun piled up on it,
with the probable consequence that it would be dead as soon as
it raised its head above the papapet, but since it was waiting
for the tape to do something it didn't look like it would ever
page back in. And I couldn't do anything to prod the tape drive,
since every encounter with the device file gave a "mount device
busy" or somesuch error.

Is there any way to deal with such a problem? I wondered
whether one could tickle /dev/kmem or one of those files
(whose internals I have no idea about but one has to learn
sometime...), persuade the tar process to page back in,
let the various signals kill it, and hope that that would
free up the tape device. Or is that hopelessly naive?

Anthony

-- 
Anthony Heading  (heading@hermes.mod.uk)
DRA Malvern, UK
Any opinions expressed are my own and in no way
represent those of my employer or any other organization.
Newsgroups: comp.unix.ultrix,comp.sys.dec
From: cross@eng.umd.edu (Chris P. Ross)
Subject: Personal DECstation audio/multimedia help needed
Date: Tue, 18 Aug 92 15:38:08 GMT
Organization: College of Engineering, Maryversity von Uniland, College Park
Keywords: audio 5000/25 personal multimedia
Originator: cross@frob.eng.umd.edu


	Hi!  I looked through the various newsgroups, and FAQs, but
couldn't find what I was looking for.  So, I thought, hey, what better
than just to ask.  (I know, too simple to work.  :-)

	Anyway, I have recently gotten a personal DECstation 5000/25
on my desk.  I know that the personal decstation supposedly supports
audio of much the same format as SPARC stations of NeXT machines,
but I have no idea how to access it.  All I can find in the ultrix/DEC
docs is a chart of the pin-outs for the audio connector.  While this
may be useful, it would also be helpful if I could get *to* the audio
output.  :-)

	If anyone knows anything about DEC audio, or where I can find
out more, I'd like to know.  Thanks alot...

				- Chris
--
Chris P. Ross                         University Of Maryland
cross@eng.umd.edu                     Engineering Computer Facility
Work#: (301)/405-3689                 Project GLUE
      "Love is like the ozone layer; you never miss it 'til it's gone."
                           - Leslie Nielsen, Naked Gun 2 1/2
From: rog@Ingres.COM (Roger Taranto)
Newsgroups: comp.unix.ultrix
Subject: Hardware flow control
Summary: I meant a 3600, not a 3100.
Date: 17 Aug 92 18:22:04 GMT
Organization: Ingres, An ASK Company, Alameda, CA 94501

I wrote:
>Quick question: how do I enable hardware flow control on a 3100
>running 4.2?

As it turns out, I need to know how to enable hardware flow control
on a *3600*, not a 3100.

Thanks for anything you can tell me,
-Roger
rog@ingres.com