From: robj@netcom.com (Rob Jellinghaus)
Newsgroups: talk.philosophy.misc,alt.politics.homosexuality,rec.arts.books
Subject: Re: Morally good hypertext
Date: 22 Dec 92 18:41:28 GMT
Organization: Netcom Online Communications Services (408-241-9760 login: guest)

These newsgroups don't seem like an appropriate venue for this thread,
but I think the thread won't last much longer.

In article <1992Dec22.162513.10206@news.media.mit.edu> minsky@media.mit.edu (Marvin Minsky) writes:
>In article <1992Dec22.041329.29225@spdcc.com> dyer@spdcc.com (Steve Dyer) writes:
>>In article <Bzn5uM.55o@watserv2.uwaterloo.ca> msmorris@watsci.UWaterloo.ca (Mike Morris) writes:
>>>              "Next time you see a lie being spread or a bad 
>>>               decision being made out of sheer ignorance,
>>>               pause, and think of hypertext."
>>>                             -- K. Eric Drexler, _Engines of Creation_
>>
>>It worries me terribly to think that I might have to read Drexler's book
>>to see if it's as bad as the quote promises it to be.
>
>Hmm.  I have a feeling that something's wrong here.  First, it is a
>seminal, important book.  But this particular sentence doesn't make
>sense out of context.  Drexler is expressing the hope that at some
>point in the future, when you quote someone about something you will
>automatically include a pointer to the portion of text that you're
>quoting from -- so that a reader can effortlessly refer back to the
>source!

Exactly.  Netnews, insofar as it makes it easy to quote portions of
earlier articles but hard to view the quoted article, allows only
partial access to context.  If you could click on any quote in an
article you're reading, and see the quote in its original context,
imagine how many flamewars would die before even beginning....

>And so, Mike Morris, in case I've got this wrong -- which is possible
>because I don't have the book at hand -- would you mind repeating for
>me and for Steve Dyer, a bit of the context surrounding the cited
>sentence from Drexler's book.

Allow me.  The sentence is the last sentence in chapter 11; the
paragraph containing it is as follows;

	"With abundant, available, high-quality information, we will
seem more intelligent.  And this will increase our chances of handling
the coming breakthroughs _right_.  What could be more useful?  Next
time you see a lie being spread or a bad decision being made out of
sheer ignorance, pause, and think of hypertext."

>Otherwise (if I'm right about this) this very thread may be providing
>a instance of precisely what Drexler was trying to say.  If we were
>using the sort of global hypertext systems that Drexler favors, the
>unchecked spread of such misunderstands would not be so rapid!

Yes.  The net as it currently stands is a fine debate medium, a
mediocre discussion medium, and a lousy scholastic medium.  Better
tools are possible, and (I believe) very important; this is what the
message in my .sig is intended to convey.  It is the shortest and most
.sig-worthy quote I have been able to find on the matter.

As it stands, about half the people who read the message interpret it
as I intend it, and the other half think to themselves, "That makes no
sense."  When those people ask me about it, this thread ensues.
Perhaps the quote causes more confusion than it's worth.  But then
again, I view that confusion as a temporary consequence of the current
limited technology of the net, and eventually the net--and the
confusion--will be obsolete.
-- 
Rob Jellinghaus    |  "Next time you see a lie being spread or a bad 
robj@netcom.com    |   decision being made out of sheer ignorance,
robj@xanadu.com    |   pause, and think of hypertext."
uunet!netcom!robj  |       -- K. Eric Drexler, _Engines of Creation_
Newsgroups: talk.philosophy.misc