HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: kamdar64@wharton.upenn.edu
Newsgroups: alt.culture.us.asian-indian
Subject: Lighten up people!
Date: 21 Jul 92 23:47:18 GMT
Organization: University of Pennsylvania


								July 21,1992

Hi everybody!
	I just came across this newsgroup yesterday!  Well I really didn't get
to read all the files, but I have some comments to certain people in
particular!
	To Venu (I believe that's your name) I think I read the most absurd
comment from you! (no offense!) You made it seem like IA women have it so much
easier than IA men!?!?!?!? That's ridiculous (Of course, that is, coming from a
female perspective!) Wait, where are the other female opinions on this subject-
I can't believe I'm the only one who disagrees!
	To Saeed, I think you had some really interesting points, but GEEEEEZ
OH MAN!  Don't you think you were getting a little carried away with nightmares   
about your parents arranging your marriage?  Seriously?! Just chill and don't
worry about things like that. (Sometimes fate does the most unexpected!)
	To all those confused parents about raising your kids in America- Don't
worry about it! Just do what you think is right and keep an open mind.  I'm an
ABCD ( and I actually think that is a misleading name, because I'm not really
confused about being a desi) but anyways my family does tons of mixed American
& Indian activities!
	Well, I hope I didn't offend anyone!  And if you have any comments
please send it to me or through the news group.  Well thanx for your time!
From: samaddar@siemens.com (Sumitro Samaddar)
Newsgroups: alt.culture.us.asian-indian
Subject: Re: Indians in Fiji (was Re: Indians in the Caribbean)
Date: 30 Jul 92 14:04:00 GMT
Reply-To: samaddar@siemens.com
Distribution: na

cariapa@Tied-House.Stanford.EDU (Sandeep Cariapa) writes:

>in the Fijian political scene. The whole reason for the coup was because the
>Indian led Labour Party came to power, and Fiji had an Indian Prime
>Minister for the first time in its history. 

I believe that there used to be a quota (less than 50% of total) on the number
of Indian members of parliament. However, they were the majority in the party
that won the election. The Prime Minister was still a native Fijian - Timothy
Bavandra (?). However, many of the important ministers were Indian, and the
perception was that it was an Indian led govt.

Subsequent to the coup, constituition has been changed make the possibility
of Indian political dominance remote.

Anyway, this is from memory of the Indian newspapers from that time.

Sumitro
Newsgroups: alt.culture.us.asian-indian
From: singh-naunihal@CS.YALE.EDU (Naunihal Singh)
Subject: Re: Asian-American Studies 127 READING LIST
Organization: dis organization, dat organization - there is plenty of that at
	yale.
Date: Thu, 23 Jul 1992 14:09:46 GMT

Just wanted to point out that both Dalip Saund (the congressman) and Thind were
Sikhs. This is not a plug for Sikhs (although I am a Sikh and enjoy being one
very much) but an attempt to bring out the fact that alot of the early Indian -
American history is Sikh -a fact that is often obscured.
--
I have a .singh file
-- 
I have a .singh file
From: mvij@novell.com (Manish Vij)
Newsgroups: alt.culture.us.asian-indian
Subject: Re: Indians in the Caribbean
Date: 21 Jul 92 22:28:34 GMT
Organization: Novell Inc., San Jose, California

In article <14g2dhINNkcg@agate.berkeley.edu> murthy@heaviside.berkeley.edu (Praveen Murthy) writes:

>It's a pity that Indians haven't been very willing to completely immerse 
>themselves in the local power structures and instead only cling on to 
>buisnesses and professional jobs like here in the USA.  In particular, if they
>were to join the police forces or armies, then situations like Fiji would never
>occur.  If Indians had been in the army in Fiji according to their percentage
>of the population (51%), at least a civil war would have ensued and the Indians
>could have shown the Fijians that they weren't about to be driven out.  Instead
>Indians seem to always become content by existing in a nether world of just
>becoming prosperous but not becoming fully part of the society in which they 
>live (like in the 70's here when many Indians didn't opt for citizenship
>because of the fear of being drafted into the army.)


Pardon my ignorance, but just what happened in Fiji?

Manish
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
   Manish Vij                               /-\o /-()
   UC Berkeley:  mvij@ocf.berkeley.edu      \_/ \\/ )
   Novell:       mvij@ka.novell.com              |/_\
                                                  \_/.  .  . . ........
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
Xref: sparky alt.culture.us.asian-indian:346 soc.culture.asian.american:7359
From: shiv@tsp.med.umn.edu (Shiv Prasad)
Newsgroups: alt.culture.us.asian-indian,soc.culture.asian.american
Subject: Re: Science and Technology (Re: Family values ...)
Date: 31 Jul 92 02:29:45 GMT
Organization: University of Minnesota

In article <1992Jul30.221403.29518@athena.mit.edu> tyadav@athena.mit.edu (Tapesh Yadav) writes:
>=================================
>>>shiv@tsp.med.umn.edu (Shiv Prasad) writes:
>>>The so-called "family values" of taday seem based in religion.  Religion,
>>>or at least organized religion, frowns upon the inquisitive nature of 
>>>science (remember the shroud of Turin?)  The religious powers seek to
>>>preserve the status quo, and hence their own influence over their congre-
>>>Shiv
>
> sahai@cory.Berkeley.EDU (Anant Sahai) writes:
>>I must disagree with Shiv's statement that Religion frowns upon
>>"inquisitive" thinking. In fact, it seems to me that it positively
>
> I must agree with Shiv's statement. Orthodox religions have always frowned
> upon inquisitive thinking. The trials of Gallileo, Jeanne D'Arc, Kepler
> etc. etc. clearly admonish such "curiosities." Even in east, this is true.


Thanks for the second.  It seems that religions, while stressing the inner-self
eschew the "outer-self."  They seem to think that all the answers to all the
questions can be found from within, and there isn't really a need for science.
I define science as finding the truth by observation and experiment.  If it
weren't for asking questions about tangible matters, there would be no
satellite technology to beam those religious arguments into our homes every
Sunday morning.  This is religion benefitting from science.  If there are
any examples of the reciprocal I'm sure someone will bring my attention to it.

The problem with organized religion and its treatment of scientists such as
Gailieo (as I see the problem anyway), and I'm sure that this will incite a
flame-fest, is that organized religion tries to suppress ideas that may
affect their "mind-control" of their congregations.  To dispute the church
is clearly to dispute God, and therefore heresy.  Too much thinking might
make people believe that they can think for themselves :-).  Flame away on
that one.

Shiv
Newsgroups: alt.culture.us.asian-indian
From: vganesan@reed.edu (The Phoenix)
Subject: Re: Desi friends
Organization: Reed College, Portland, Oregon
Date: Fri, 31 Jul 1992 06:06:12 GMT
Distribution: world, moh2@midway.uchicago.edu

In article <1992Jul30.204520.17510@midway.uchicago.edu> moh2@midway.uchicago.edu writes:
>In article <MSANGHVI.92Jul28185204@cs.ulowell.edu> msanghvi@cs.ulowell.edu writes:

>
>You know, this sounds good.  My only problem lies in the gray areas,
>where nobody is physically forcing you to do anything, but you get
>pressured into something nonetheless.
>
>To be more specific, a close friend of mine has been living in the US
>for over 8 years now.  She still wants to marry an Indian, but mainly
>because she doesn't want to upset her family.  Okay, I can deal with
>that, there are a lot of Indians for her to choose from, and I'm sure
>she could be happy with one of them.
>
>However, she is terrified by the prospect of an arranged marriage
>(having seen some pretty awful ones) and yet doesn't have the heart to
>tell her family that she doesn't want one because she thinks it will
>hurt them too much.
>
>I think a marriage she has to live with the rest of her life is more
>important than the possible hurt feelings of her family, but she has a
>much stronger sense of duty to them, and has difficulty withstanding
>the pressure they've started placing on her to get married quickly,
>before she becomes an old maid (she's 21).
>
>What do you think?  I don't feel their emotional manipulation is
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Well for starters I think you should send her my e-mail address ;-) ;-)

Seriously folks in situations like this I fall back on Ayn Rand's
"The Fountainhead" and be selfish.  The "Family values" which most
indian's claim and are proud to posess, arn't really much about
family at all, they are about following blindly a societal prototype
of what it considers is the paradigm way of existence. If only people
actually thought and decided the values they would like to keep, the
world would be such a better place.

>(Never mind the fact that she is perfectly capable of taking care of
>herself).
>


The Phoenix

>
> - Amirthi
>-- 
>The autumn leaves are falling like rain.
>Although my neighbors are all barbarians,
>And you, you are a thousand miles away,
>There are always two cups at my table.		 - A T'ang Dynasty poem


-- 
  The Greatest burden in the world is to have              The Phoenix
   a great potential.                                      Reed #252
                     Linus from "Peanuts"                  Reed College
                                                         Portland, OR-97202
Newsgroups: alt.culture.us.asian-indian
From: dasu@sscux1.ssc.gov (Sridhara Dasu)
Subject: Re: Desi friends
Organization: SSC Laboratory, Dallas, TX
	<MSANGHVI.92Jul28185204@cs.ulowell.edu>
	<1992Jul30.204520.17510@midway.uchicago.edu>
Date: Fri, 31 Jul 1992 21:35:11 GMT


   You know, this sounds good.  My only problem lies in the gray areas,
   where nobody is physically forcing you to do anything, but you get
   pressured into something nonetheless.

   To be more specific, a close friend of mine has been living in the US
   for over 8 years now.  She still wants to marry an Indian, but mainly
   because she doesn't want to upset her family.  Okay, I can deal with
   that, there are a lot of Indians for her to choose from, and I'm sure
   she could be happy with one of them.

...

   I think a marriage she has to live with the rest of her life is more
   important than the possible hurt feelings of her family, but she has a
   much stronger sense of duty to them, and has difficulty withstanding
   the pressure they've started placing on her to get married quickly,
   before she becomes an old maid (she's 21).

   What do you think?  I don't feel their emotional manipulation is
   unfair...she thinks it's just the way they try to take care of her.
   (Never mind the fact that she is perfectly capable of taking care of
   herself).

   >Mehul "raja lakhan" Sanghvi    

    - Amirthi


I think the parental pressure you are talking about is rather
exaggerated. Parents are under peer pressure too. How can they
be seen to "neglect" their kids?! Tell your friend to make
friends and find a match for herself. Chances are high that her family
will be quite happy to go along. There might be few problems,
if her choice is too foreign for her family's taste (Miss. Masala),
but eventually all will be well. The Hinduja (?) suicide type
cases are quite rare.

I think the bigger problem is with younger people. They don't
seem to be upto developing any relationships! As long as it
continues parents will be forced to "arrange".  Have fun folks!

			- Sridhara Dasu
Newsgroups: alt.culture.us.asian-indian
From: baindur@jhunix.hcf.jhu.edu (Satyen G Baindur)
Subject: Re: Lighten up people!
Organization: HAC - Johns Hopkins University, Baltimore
Date: Fri, 24 Jul 1992 01:24:58 GMT

In article <4432@dove.nist.gov> hira@cme.nist.gov writes:

>
>
>Now for something completely different. How do your parents view race 
>relations within the US, this is mostly directed towards those who've 
>grown up here. My folks have sympathy with african americans, but definitely
>no empathy for them. In fact, they get on my case when I talk down about 
>white society, and have quite a different perspective towards white society
>than I do. I have a few ideas about why, but I'd like to hear what other 
>people think first.
>
>Ron


This sympathy-empathy distinction is maintained by most immigrant groups 
vis-a-vis minority populations, both of their own and other ethnicities. 
I just wanted to put Ron's point in a wider perspective. For example, 
Carribbean blacks sympathize with the plight of native born African-Americans
but do not completely identify with them, nor do Hispanics from Central 
and South America seek to become one with US-born Hispanics. 

This is part of the immigrant ethic, to see America as a land of 
opportunity, not to worry too much about unfairness, injustice, 
or racism, at least in the first generation. Likewise, Indians 
have identified more with the 'dominant' culture, in the first 
generation at any rate, and mostly beyond, because such belief in the 
system is crucial to eventually being able to derive rewards from 
it. It is easier to rationalize failures to succeed to the extent 
previously thought possible, to personal shortcomings, than to hold the 
system responsible, and thus bring into question the original choice 
to immigrate. This logic is similarly extended to minorities in the 
US, who, to the extent they do not 'succeed' are viewed not so much 
as having been victimized by the 'system', but instead as having 
failed individually or collectively, as a result of value systems, 
lifestyle choices, or personality defects. That this argument finds 
resonance also in some 'conservative' circles in the US, legitimizes 
it in the eyes of those immigrants who think thus. 

Satyen
-- 
%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%
Satyen Baindur  (baindur@eta.pha.jhu.edu)
Physics and Astronomy
Johns Hopkins University
Newsgroups: alt.culture.us.asian-indian,soc.culture.asian.american
From: cariapa@Tied-House.Stanford.EDU (Sandeep Cariapa)
Subject: Indians in Fiji (was Re: Indians in the Caribbean)
Organization: EECF, Stanford University
Distribution: su
Date: Wed, 29 Jul 92 17:58:38 GMT

In article <bjag-270792121238@owl.ls.nwu.edu>, bjag@nwu.edu (Bharathi Jagadeesh) writes:
|> 
|> Is it really true that Indians have avoided political involvement in Fiji,

	No this is not true. My friend's father was a Member of the Fijian 
Parliament before his untimely death due to a heart attack. He was the Minister
of Education. There are many people of Indian origin who are still quite active
in the Fijian political scene. The whole reason for the coup was because the
Indian led Labour Party came to power, and Fiji had an Indian Prime Minister for
the first time in its history. 

|> including not joining the military & police force? A few years ago, I heard
|> a speech by the Fijian Chief of Police (just about when these changes were
|> being put into effect) and I thought he was an Indian. I might have been
|> mistaken, though.

	I believe there are laws against Fijians of Indian origin serving in the
armed forces (or there are strict quotas against this). 

	There are also laws prohibiting anyone who is not native Fijian from
owning land. All land "owned" by Fijians-Indians is actually leased from native
Fijians. This is apparently because native Fijians have traditionally felt very
close to the land, and worship it, or something of the sort...

	There are strict quotas for Fijian-Indians who want to get a higher
education, resulting in a number of them opting to study in either New Zealand
or Australia.

	It is very interesting interacting with Fijian Indians: the dialect of
Hindi that they speak is very different from any of the Hindi I've heard in India
(which I admit, is quite a limited sample space) It is more of a mixture of all
Indian languages, since people from all over India were shanghaied to Fiji. The
language seems to have evolved differently as well, since these people were
isolated for such a long time from mainland India. The cuisine is very different
too, it uses a lot of herbs and plants that are native to the South Pacific
islands and are unheard of in India.

	It isn't quite true that the Indian Government didn't do anything either.
During the coup, the Indian Embassy vehemently critized the behaviour of the
Fijian Government, or at least the Government that came to power after the coup.
For all his efforts, the Indian ambassador was expelled from the Islands. I think
the Indian Government did everything that it could do within its diplomatic
powers. Keep in mind that these people hold *Fijian* passports, not Indian ones. 

	Well, enough rambling for now. No, I'm not from Fiji, but my girlfriend
is. 

-- 
 Sandeep Cariapa, cariapa@eecf.stanford.edu, (415) 723-1004 (work address)
 System programmer, EECF, Stanford University. 
 Hardware, n.: The parts of a computer system that can be kicked.
Newsgroups: alt.culture.us.asian-indian
From: nalawad@ecf.toronto.edu (NALAWADI SHAILESH MALLIKARJUN)
Subject: Re: Perfect Families
Organization: University of Toronto, Engineering Computing Facility
Date: Fri, 31 Jul 1992 16:42:48 GMT

In article <4572@dove.nist.gov> hira@cme.nist.gov writes:
>With the discussions about degree envy, one thing kept coming to mind.
>Every Asian-Indian family that I meet likes to put on a front that 
>their family is perfect and that everyone in it is doing exceptionally
>well. Its like they'll never admit any faults to you, which is quite
>the opposite of what most white people I've met do. This is one of 
>the reasons that I have trouble sustaining friendships with Indians.
>They never let their guard down, and you always feel like you're in
>competition with one another.
>
>Do other asian cultures have similar problems?
>
A similar culture exists in the Newly Industrialising Countries (NICs) of
South East Asia like Singapore, Hong Kong and Taiwan.

People are always striving to outdo each other and put
on false fronts when in the company of others so that they may not "lose
face".

Parents end up taking children to Piano Clases, Ballet Classes and Swimming
Classes on top of the Tuition class during the week. Most will take a week
off from work before their child's major exam to coach the child. The fear
is that if their child doesn't do well, it'll reflect badly on them.

In this case however, it does not come in the way of making friends and all  
that because people simply have learnt to live with it. Some people argue
that it is this fear of "losing face" which drives the people of that part
of the world to work as hard as they do.

Shailesh Nalawadi
email: nalawad@ecf.toronto.edu
Univ of Toronto.

-- 

Shailesh Nalawadi
email: nalawad@ecf.toronto.edu
Univ of Toronto.
From: samaddar@siemens.com (Sumitro Samaddar)
Newsgroups: alt.culture.us.asian-indian
Subject: Re: Parental racism (was Re: Lighten up people!)
Date: 23 Jul 92 22:14:54 GMT
Reply-To: samaddar@siemens.com

mvij@novell.com (Manish Vij) writes:

>Another reason is that my parents are very cautious and fear crime, and
>they associate crime with minorities.  Of course, poor people do commit
>crimes disproportionately more than the well-to-do, and many minorities
>are disproportionately poor compared to white people, but it doesn't
>justify applying a generic stereotype across all members of a race or
>ethnicity.

I don't know. In India and most third world countries, people are poor.
Disparities between rich and poor is perhaps even greater than here. Still,
poor people don't necessarily commit more crimes.

Sumitro
Newsgroups: alt.culture.us.asian-indian
From: mgundeko@pcserver2.Naitc.Com (Murthy Gundekota)
Subject: Re: Perfect Families
Followup-To: alt.culture.us.asian-indian
Organization: Somewhere near Chicago
Date: Thu, 30 Jul 92 22:36:22 GMT

In article <4572@dove.nist.gov> hira@cme.nist.gov writes:
>Every Asian-Indian family that I meet likes to put on a front that 
>their family is perfect and that everyone in it is doing exceptionally
>well. Its like they'll never admit any faults to you, which is quite
>the opposite of what most white people I've met do.

There are a lot of things Indian families do that white people don't.
Indian parents don't talk about their sex lives, their children's
dating habits or how copiously their pets have been treating them
lately.  It is in the human nature as you can see around where no
netter ever admits their faults. I think to admit one's faults one
first needs to know how to tell a joke. And I bet the next thing you
will say and I agree is that few Asian-Indians have a good sense of
humor. Time to write: ``The Asian_Indian Jokes Handbook,'' hey? My
contribution to it:

This Asian Indian dad, after signing the divorce papers, cabled his
dad in India as: ``Dad, this is your son without your daughter-in-law
any more. Arrange to send a replacement by return flight. Yours
Affectionately - Appu, the father Tippu and Pappu.''



Murthy
Newsgroups: alt.culture.us.asian-indian
From: pghol@ctp.com (Preeti Gholap)
Subject: And more Lit...
Date: Wed, 22 Jul 1992 18:22:01 GMT
Organization: Cambridge Technology Partners


Another fine xyz-Indian author  ;)

"Such a Long Journey" by Rohinton Mistry
Publisher: Alfred Knopf (hard cover)

Rohinton Mistry is a Canadian-Indian writer (he emigrated in 1975) 
and a member of the Parsi community. There are, incidentally
a large number of Canadian Parsee's, who mostly live
in suburban Toronto.  

The book is a fictional narrative of a very typical
middle class Parsi family who get caught up in a mystery.
The plot isnt too hot, there's no evidence of much political
analysis (something one half expects, since its set in Gandhi's 
Emergency period) but khodai! khodai! The characters are developed
with the sly humor and depth of a master. 

This book is a hilarious and nostalgic "journey" into Parsi culture. 
Well worth reading!

- Preeti 
Newsgroups: alt.culture.us.asian-indian,soc.culture.asian.american
From: mgundeko@pcserver2.Naitc.Com (Murthy Gundekota)
Subject: Re: the scientist as a human being (was Re: Science and Technology)
Organization: Somewhere near Chicago
Distribution: usa
Date: Fri, 31 Jul 92 19:05:38 GMT

In article <1992Jul31.180554.27800@menudo.uh.edu> mece1xg@menudo.uh.edu (purna) writes:
>i am not sure if you understand science very well, based upon the
>above posting.  science does NOT suffer from interpretation; science
>is about observation and measurement!  interpretation is what is
>done by SCIENTISTS.  

Thanks for showing me the door :-) I wish it opens into nirvana land
or into your alchemy lab. I showed the same aberration as
Tapas who posts on this thread as well. I meant to say, science
suffers from this  credibility problem...That is, common people begin
to wonder what is real science?  And which is good science? The fact
that newspapers and magazines like Time, Newsweek, etc. compete to
bring science to oridinary people shows how popular science as
alternative to fashions and occult religions even among yuppies. ;-)

>however, with all of this, he still had a major downfalling.  he
>refused to believe in quantum mechanics, even though all of the
>data supported that theory!  

I guess you mean he refused to believe all of the interpretation or
prediction based on quantum mechanics. Gotcha! Seriously, a man whom
all people claim to know must have unsaid a lot of things. For
instance, while playing pool one day (and losing badly) I told my
winning pals: ``Einstein said, God won't play pool with man.'' (ala
the original: God won't play dice with man). 

>one last note.  your comment about scientists not needing PhDs
>is correct, but being sexually repressed is not.  Now, sexually
>DEPRESSED may come closer to the truth! :) :) :)

It is also called nerd phenomenon.

>-purna



Murthy
Newsgroups: alt.culture.us.asian-indian,soc.culture.asian.american