HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: adams@lars.acc-admin.stolaf.edu (Brynach ap Adda)
Subject: Re: the US elections...
Organization: St. Olaf College; Northfield, MN
Date: Mon, 23 Nov 1992 21:03:19 GMT

In article <1992Nov17.225556.1732@radian.uucp> markbr%radian@natinst.com (markbr) writes:
>>ksm@abb-sc.abb-sc.com (Ashley) writes:
>>>... the other night the police gunned down a man who 
>>>was out of his mind on drugs and very well armed just a few blocks from 
>>>where I live. It's a dangerous world out there, and it keeps getting 
>>>smaller all the time. I own a handgun. I don't like it, but I own a 
>>>handgun.
>>>			- Ashley
>
>Ashley,
>   I understand how you feel. In fact, I'm glad you do dislike it. The people
>that worry me are the ones who think "oh, wow, it's great, now I can protect
>myself (and probably, "NOW, I'm a REAL MAN!)"). They don't seem to realize
>the horror of the necessity. *THIS* is a civilization? I remember seeing
>pieces, about the time of King Arthur, and other "good kings", where they boast
>that "a woman could walk the length of the kingdom, wearing jewels, and not
>be afraid of being attacked". I *am* very sorry that you felt the need.

Actually, I can see admiring the beauty and efficiency of a well-made
handgun the same way I would admire the balance and design of a well-made
sword. No, maybe not quite the same way; I am rather biased on behalf of
the sword. It's a bit more difficult for an untrained person to hurt 
someone (other than oneself :) with a sword than with a handgun.

But you're right. There is something horrible about that beauty, considering
what the instrument was designed to do. I don't own a handgun, or a sword
either.

Mark, you may have been thinking of Ireland's golden age, when a woman
could carry a bag of gold from one end of the island to another, and 
both would arrive untouched.

-Bryn.
Brynach Brawdfran ap Adda       (Sam Adams)   adams@mari.acc-admin.stolaf.edu

"I am the Wheel, I am the Turning..."    - Brian Eno and John Cale
From: lib1p@jane.uh.edu (Tammy Stark Blandino)
Newsgroups: alt.pagan
Subject: Records with stickers (was Censorship & Tipper)
Date: 17 Nov 1992 07:57 CST
Organization: University of Houston
Distribution: world
NNTP-Posting-Host: jane.uh.edu
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41    

In article <gate.X4V8TB1w165w@pil.UUCP>, alizard@pil writes...
>Re: Re: the US elections...
>By: markbr%radian #0 @natinst.com (markbr) USEnet      
> 
>> From: markbr%radian@natinst.com (markbr)
>> Newsgroups: alt.pagan
>> Subject: Re: the US elections...
>> Date: Tue, 10 Nov 1992 23:06:41 GMT
>> The problem is, as I saw a news report on, that there are many record
>> stores, and department stores, simply refuse to sell *any* records
>> with stickers on them at all. How do you deal with that?
>> mark
> 
>Time to rename this part of the thread. 
> 
>If you are a fundie, you count a refusal by stores to carry records with
>the stickers as total victory and look for another store chain or public
>library to intimidate.
> 


So someone needs to open up a record store and make sure every
record with a sticker gets in there.  Then make sure EVERYONE
knows that those records are there.  Yes you will get a lot of
flak from the fundies, but guess what.....you will make a fortune
from all those people who want those albums and can't seem to
get them anywhere else.

When I went to get the Bodycount album Soundwarehouse had already
pulled it from there shelves.  A local store, Cactus Records,
made a fortune off the album because of it.  All I had to say
was "where is..." and the guy pointed his finger before I got
the word Bodycount out.

So F*ck 'em all if they can't take a joke!
8-)

(Sorry guys, just feeling in a snotty mood this morning.)
Tammy
lib1p@jetson.uh.edu
Newsgroups: alt.pagan
Newsgroups: alt.pagan
Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1992 12:48:56 -0500 
From: Alex Feely <af2e+@andrew.cmu.edu>
Subject: Re:the care & feedig f staves

Blessed be,

  
       From a druidic point-of-view,  what are the uses for wands and
staves. I have a rowan wand at home that still has bark on it. It was
taken from a tree by sawing it of(yes, with metal... sigh) and poring a
honey/milk solution onto the tree during the full moon. (very
traditional I know...). anyway..... how should I prepare this wand and
what are it's non-ritual uses if any?

                                                                        
             Alex Feely

af2e@andrew.cmu.edu
My mind prances in wilderness yet untamed by human conception
From: bwhite@oucsace.cs.ohiou.edu (William E. White )
Newsgroups: alt.pagan
Subject: Re: Guns & self defense
Date: 23 Nov 92 04:52:43 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: O.U., Harvard on the Hocking, Berkeley in the Boondocks!

In article <1245@abb-sc.abb-sc.COM> ksm@abb-sc.abb-sc.com (Ashley) writes:

>	Who murders us? Why do they feel they must do so? How can we make sure 
>that they no longer feel this way?

The last time I looked at statistics, a good deal of murders were related
to other crimes (robberies, etc.), and a good deal to domestic issues.
There are, of course, some murders that I think are simply due to legitimate
"insanity" (hell, for all we know it could be something organic like ACh 
imbalance in the brain, though I don't think it's anything that simplistic
or we'd have found it).  As population grows larger, we'll naturally see
more and more of that.

Actually, population is probably a significant factor; if for no other
reason, some murderers kill more than one person (and it's not possible
for a murder to kill less than one person), so on the average, assuming
a fixed percentage of murderers per capita, you get more murders as the
population increases.  Plus which, as population increases, the percentage
of murderers probably goes up as well, which means even more murders as
population increases.

>			- Ashley


-- 
|  Bill White   +1-614-594-3434     | bwhite@oucsace.cs.ohiou.edu             |
|  31 Curran Dr., Athens OH  45701  | bwhite@bigbird.cs.ohiou.edu (alternate) |
|  SCA: Erasmus Marwick, Dernehealde Pursuivant, Dernehealde, Middle Kingdom  |
Newsgroups: alt.pagan
From: cortese@skid.ps.uci.edu (Janis Maria Cortese)
Subject: Re: Pagan Belief revisited
Newsgroups: alt.pagan
Organization: University of California, Irvine
Date: 19 Nov 92 06:09:39 GMT

In article <1992Nov19.022222.8276@trl.oz.au> banerjee@titan.trl.OZ.AU (Arindam Banerjee) writes:
> 
>It may interest you that in Hinduism we have the concept of
>ArdhaNarEshwara, which means that the Supreme is represented by half-man
>and half-woman. Theer are ancient sculptures showing this divine figure
>- in those sculptures the partitioning is done along the vertical axis,
>as  i dimly recollect the left side is female and the right is male.
>Hermaphrodites obtain a special relationship in certain parts of India
>as a consequence.

As I understand, this is where the old myths about the Amazons cutting
off their right breasts came from.  Western men saw these statues and
automatically assumed . . .

Arindam, I have to ask you something about Indian religious views,
specifically Hindu ones.  What is the opinion of Hinduism on the
mind/body duality?  Are the considered separate, and is the feeding and
care of one preferred over the other?  I ask because I know a woman who
works at Unex here at UCI who is a Hare Krishna (I may be using this
term incorrectly strictly speaking, and if so I apologize; this is the
general way the term is used in the US.  If there is a more proper way,
feel free to tell me).  Her opinion is that the mind must be fed and
that feeding of sensation is not a good thing -- again, a mind/body
split with which I disagree.  I was wondering what general Hinduism says
about this.

Blessings and thanks,
Janis


Newsgroups: alt.pagan
From: markbr%radian@natinst.com (markbr)
Subject: Re: Who are we kidding?
Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1992 18:09:48 GMT
Organization: n.o.y.b

In article <1992Nov19.211953.27474@oucsace.cs.ohiou.edu> bwhite@oucsace.cs.ohiou.edu (William E. White ) writes:
<Janis' post, and W's response deleted>
>Religion should be empowering, it should enforce one's connection with the
>surrounding physical environment and one's ability to influence it.  The
>fact that most major religions today are precisely the opposite is, in my
>not-so-humble opinion, a big problem. 
<snip>
I agree. Perhaps, just perhaps, that is why the Gaeia Hypothesis has shown
up now (it's Gaeia time? like steam-engine time?).

	mark

Newsgroups: alt.pagan
From: klaus@cscns.com (Klaus Dimmler)
Subject: Test
Organization: Community_News_Service
X-Newsreader: Tin 1.1 PL3
Date: Sun, 15 Nov 1992 17:57:55 GMT

This is a test message..

Newsgroups: alt.pagan
From: ag055@yfn.ysu.edu (Ward Chanley)
Subject: Re: Women and Men Witches
Organization: Youngstown State University/Youngstown Free-Net
Date: Tue, 17 Nov 1992 20:42:21 GMT


Re: Capital G in Gay...

You're very perceptive, Janis: I -do-
consider myself a part of a culture
that is specific to my Gayness (and 
before I get a hundred flames, I don't
mean to imply that Gay culture is 
better than straight culture; just
different).

Blessed Be,
me

--
From: markbr%radian@natinst.com (markbr)
Newsgroups: alt.pagan
Subject: Re: Pagan TV and Radio?
Date: 17 Nov 92 23:45:28 GMT
Organization: n.o.y.b

In article <1992Nov16.143545.44830@kuhub.cc.ukans.edu> kuvamp@kuhub.cc.ukans.edu writes:
>Flipping through the channels yet again, I counted no less than three Christian
>cable networks on my service.  Depressed, It got my mind a-workin':
>I realize the chances of an entire NETWORK (ala "family channel") is slim to
>none, but there surely must be Pagan t.v shows (public access, etc.) and radio
>programs.   This may be a waste of space, but does anyone out there have copies
>of these things, if they exist? (I.e. videotaped tv spots, audiotaped radio)
>
I just realized this last week, as well as that there's at least one or two
more that are Xian religious programming a lot of the time, esp. prime time.
Any lawyer-types here? Any opinion as to whether this is more than reasonable
or complainable about to the FCC? (Esp. since Austin Scumvision "doesn't have 
a channel available for the sf channel")

	mark
Newsgroups: alt.pagan,talk.politics.guns
From: andy@SAIL.Stanford.EDU (Andy Freeman)
Subject: Re: Guns & self defense
Followup-To: talk.politics.guns
Organization: Computer Science Department,  Stanford University.
Distribution: usa
Date: Sat, 21 Nov 1992 00:23:01 GMT

In article <Bxz1q0.HA7@access.digex.com> corun@access.digex.com (Corun MacAnndra) writes:
>This is true. But do you really believe that you'll be able to use that
>fraction of a second to draw a gun, release the safety, cock it (if necessary),
>and fire it effectively any faster than you could use hand to hand combat
>techniques, or, better yet, run away and scream your bloody head off?

Let's consider MacAnndra's scenario.

You're standing about 5 feet away from someone who has the ability to
kill you in the time it takes to move a finger.  He's said "move and
I'll kill you" and you're pretty sure he's going to kill you no matter
what you do.

He can move that finger before you can do much.  You don't have time
to close, let alone do anything useful when you do.  Yelling won't
help and you don't have time to turn, let alone to run.  However, you
can draw and fire a couple of shots accurately before he can move that
finger.

Why?  Well, reaction, which is what he's doing takes time.  It doesn't
take a lot of time, but it does take time.  You can complete some acts
during that time, but not many.  It's easy enough to demonstrate that
draw and fire is one of those things.  (Police understand this, which
is why they're so twitchy in certain situations; the action/reaction
gap doesn't depend on the legal status of the parties involved.)
However, if your "fire" doesn't have a decent chance of stopping that
finger, it won't help.  There aren't many things other than guns that
qualify.

>Don't ban the guns, ban the uses to which they are put.

Which now-legal uses should be banned?  Murder and assault are already
banned.  What will be the benefit of banning self-defense?  How about
recreational shooting?  Hunting?  (I note that hunters are provide the
bulk of the habitat preservation money.  Sure, more would be nice, but
we non-hunters aren't kicking much in now and it isn't clear that that
will change if the hunters stop.)

>Greater social consciousness is what's needed, and you can't regulate that
>with a bunch of laws.

Right.  So maybe we should oppose those who want to propose measures
that won't help but will use the resources we need to increase
social conciousness.

-andy
--
UUCP:    {arpa gateways, sun, decwrl, uunet, rutgers}!cs.stanford.edu!andy
ARPA:    andy@cs.stanford.edu
From: dhardin@bbn.com (Dawn Hardin)
Newsgroups: alt.pagan
Subject: Re: Mikey
Date: 19 Nov 1992 17:47:41 GMT
NNTP-Posting-Host: bbn.com

In article <00963C1F.44802560@Msu.oscs.montana.edu>, uphrrmk@Msu.oscs.montana.edu writes:

>      ....which brings me to my question:  I'd like a child someday, and I've
> been wondering how best to introduce my being a Pagan.  You know...how to
> explain, deal with questions and criticism from other parents, playmates,
> teachers, etc.  Please, folk; give me your advice and wisdom--a friend of mine
> is Wiccan and pregnant, and she's wondering the same thing, as we both live 
> in Montana.  Montana is a very scary state to me.  Never have it been so
> necessary for me to hide what I am, and she is one of three pagans I've met
> in this state. 

I haven't lived through many of the problems yet since
my baby is only a year old, but one thing that helps me a lot is having
a supportive day care person.  She didn't know what being a pagan meant
when I first mentioned it, but she borrowed a copy of _The Spiral Dance_
and read it so she'd understand.  She has two Christian children, two Jewish
children, and one pagan baby, so she puts up generic christmas ornaments
and always says Christmas-Hanukah-Yule in one word to include everyone.
I don't know how much Alice has picked up yet, but I'm glad that her
first experience is with someone who appreciates diversity.  I know she's
not hearing one thing from me and something else from her caretaker.

Dawn

Joseph Campbell gave me hope and now I have been saved.
"Folk Song" by Bongwater
Newsgroups: alt.pagan
From: markbr%radian@natinst.com (markbr)
Subject: Re: silly lines
Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1992 23:42:56 GMT
Organization: n.o.y.b

In article <lgql2oINNjqd@news.bbn.com> dhardin@bbn.com (Dawn Hardin) writes:
>
>> "All the cute ones are mutants..."--?
>
>Yeah.  Aren't mutants adorable?  (Sappy smile...)
>
We sure are! Take one home with you tonight! (Not me, I'm taken....(B-)}

	mark

Newsgroups: alt.pagan
From: dsh@eceyv.ncsu.edu ( )
Subject: Description of the Fetal Remains from an Abortion
Organization: North Carolina State University
Distribution: na
Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1992 00:14:23 GMT

  "It was easy to shrug off an aborted pregnancy as nothing more than
   a sack of blood and globs of tissue--as many pro-choice activists
   did--if one never saw fetal remains, or products of conception (POC),
   as they were known in medical circles.  But the nurses, medical
   assistants, and doctors who worked inside procedure rooms knew
   that while an eight-week POC was indeed a sack of blood and
   globs of tissue, an eleven-week POC harbored tiny arms and legs
   and feet with toes.  At twelve weeks, those tiny hands had tiny
   nails.  Although the fetal head was too small at that stage to
   withstand the evacuation machine's suction, pieces of face--a nose
   and a mouth, or a black eye (all fetal eyes are black in the
   first trimester) the size of a pea--were sometimes found in
   the aftermath.

   Later abortions spawned even more gruesome fetal remains.  Between
   the twelfth and the sixteenth week, early in the second trimester,
   the fetus almost doubled in length as its body caught up to its
   large head, and it filled out to the point where it looked like
   a human baby for the first time.  Since the fetal skull was 
   still soft, the head did not come out whole during the evacuation,
   but the legs and arms and rib cage made it through intact.  The
   hand of a second trimester fetus, as a Preterm doctor described
   it, seemed big enough to shake.

   Most of Preterm's abortion staff didn't volunteer to work ``seconds''.
   Late first trimester POCs were hard enough.  The counselor/medical
   assistants (CMAs) met regularly to discuss their feelings about
   their work, and often the discussion focused on the POC.  Inside
   a procedure room, facing the contents of the uterus, there was
   no denying what abortion was." 

   Sue Hertz, _Caught in the Crossfire: A Year on Abortion's Front Line_,
   Prentice Hall Press, 1991, pg. 104.

Newsgroups: alt.pagan
From: Luneanna
Subject: Zsuzsanna E. Budapest
Summary: Have you read...?
Keywords: Budapest
Organization: TheNews 
Date: Sun, 22 Nov 92 03:29:02 GMT

	I was wondering if anyone out there has read "Grandmother Time" or
"Grandmother Moon" by Zsuzsanna E. Budapest. I'd really appreciate some
opinions on what she had to say. I'm new to the old path and would be grateful
for a steadying hand along the way.

		Much thanks and many blessings,  

				Luneanna 
							The full moon is a silver shield of protection for all that lives.-D.L.
paxson
From: lazarus@magna.ksu.ksu.edu (Bart -Laz- Smith)
Newsgroups: alt.pagan
Subject: Re: Hate-Related Grafitti (was Re: X-trian Right Wingers Strike Again)
Date: 17 Nov 1992 01:49:27 -0600
Organization: Kansas State University
Distribution: world
NNTP-Posting-Host: magna.ksu.ksu.edu


In article <Bxp19M.5M4@mentor.cc.purdue.edu>, smithmc@mentor.cc.purdue.edu (Lost Boy) writes:
>I'm a member of the Pagan Academic Network, the univeresity-sponsored 
>support group for Pagans, Witches, solitares, mystics, &c. Of course
>we've had our share of problems, but the latest is as follows:
>
>As a University-sanctioned group we get to have a display set up in 
>one of the windows in Stewart Center. The display we set up, although
>rather extravagant, is effective and seems to represent everyone in 
>the group including the Christian element (myself and a couple others).
>However, this did not stop someone from scrawling "Jesus Saves" over
>the glass with a lipstick.
>
>Does anyone have advice as to how we should handle this? Many of us
>are a little shaken by the incident.

Well, it depends on what kind of response you want to receive... in your
position, I'd be going for the positive and creative.  You might write
letters to your school newspaper, stating your chagrin and disappointment
in the individual Christian female responsible for the act, etc.  Of
course, it's kinda risky, especially if the readers are anything like 
those of the K-State Collegian, in which such views are just as likely
to be attacked as they are accepted.

The best method might be to just wash off the offending makeup and try
to ignore these actions.

(Sorry if this seems redundant, Lost Boy, but after reading a couple of
the other responses I felt like I oughta make this one a little more
public...)

--
Bart -Laz- Smith
Kansas State University
'Cats - Hell, I can't remember the score.  They just lost to Mizzou.  *sigh*
"I've got the motive which is money, and I've got the body which is DEAD."
	-- In the Heat of the Night
From: lib1p@rosie.uh.edu (Tammy Stark Blandino)
Newsgroups: alt.pagan
Subject: test of sig file
Date: 20 Nov 1992 13:14 CST
Organization: University of Houston
Distribution: world
NNTP-Posting-Host: rosie.uh.edu
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41    

Hello guys, guess what....

I'm caving in to the signature thang!

So here's a test of my sig.



oh well, it didn't work......:-(

back to ole consult@uh.edu


Tammy
From: alizard@pil
Newsgroups: alt.pagan
Subject: could someone with Covenant of the Goddess contact me?
Date: 17 Nov 92 00:49:18 GMT


I mean specifically someone from the San Francisco East Bay area...

thanks
blessings
                                                 A.Lizard
====== 93 ====== mea saurus, mea saurus, mea maxima saurus! ====== 93 ======
                  (slogan contributed by Jessica McGeary)
Mail to me should be sent to:       |  There are no fnords in this sig file.
alizard%tweekco%boo@PacBell.COM     |  autoreply to address I posted this
     ^^^ preferred site ^^^         |  from only if you want to wait a
PacBell.COM!boo!tweekco!alizard     |  solstice or two for my answer.
alizard@seer.mystic.com(backup site)|              Kallisti!
Newsgroups: alt.pagan
From: ag055@yfn.ysu.edu (Ward Chanley)
Subject: Re: Women and Men Witches
Organization: Youngstown State University/Youngstown Free-Net
Date: Sun, 22 Nov 1992 18:10:19 GMT


Re: Men and violence...

I've said often enough that I believe
there are essential differences in the
nature of men and women; women don't
Gaybash.  Men do.  Not all men are
violent, but I do think that men may
have a biological predisposition for
the trait.

-- 
Newsgroups: alt.pagan
From: adams@mari.acc-admin.stolaf.edu (Brynach ap Adda)
Subject: Re: Druid Human Sacrifice
Organization: St. Olaf College; Northfield, MN
Date: Wed, 18 Nov 1992 23:57:18 GMT

In article <1992Nov11.034107.28696@monu6.cc.monash.edu.au> mongoose@yoyo.cc.monash.edu.au (Conrad Leviston) writes:
>Chris Lilley (lilleyc@cs.man.ac.uk) wrote:
>: 
>: Interestingly, there was a custom in the Scottish Highlands of burnt
>: bannocks (scones, bread cakes) at Samhain. In fact, many traditional
>: Samhain folk rituals involve selecting someone - nuts jumping on a
>: fire, sticks moved by the fire, whatever. The usual folklore
>: interpretation was that they would die 'before the year was out' or in
>: a 'year and a day'.
>
>	I believe that there is a ritual of burning a bonfire, and getting
>cows to pass through the smouldering remains. One account (C.Squire)
>claims that this is a throwback to old traditions of burning livestock as
>a sacrifice. 

Squire is a bit outdated. Try Alwyn & Brinley Rees' _Celtic Heritage_
for a good general source. The custom I'd heard more about involves
lighting two bonfires (by friction) and driving the cattle between
it to protect them from the unfriendly spirits. This bit of the
ritual isn't exactly a sacrifice.

>There is another tradition of people jumping over bonfires,
>this also being symbolic of burning. Sorry I can't be a little bit more
>specific, but it's been a while since I checked up on this stuff.

This bit may well be the symbolic remnant of an actual sacrifice.
However, another possibility is that someone had to face a sort of
death - not necessarily literal - as a means toward communicating
with the mighty ones at this time. The evidence for widespread and
frequent human sacrifice is somewhat lacking, though it certainly
was practiced among the late Iron Age Celts.


>: >	See _The Life and Death of a Druid Prince_ (I forget the
>: >author) for details.

Dr. Anne Ross and Don Robins. Great read, if somewhat speculative.

pob hwyl,

Brynach Brawdfran ap Adda       (Sam Adams)   adams@mari.acc-admin.stolaf.edu

"I am the Wheel, I am the Turning..."    - Brian Eno and John Cale
From: GRS00039@CONRAD.APPSTATE.EDU (Greatone)
Newsgroups: alt.pagan
Subject: The above message supposedly writen by me.
Date: 16 Nov 1992 05:17:03 GMT
Organization: APPALACHIAN STATE UNIVERSITY
Distribution: world
NNTP-Posting-Host: conrad.appstate.edu
X-News-Reader: VMS NEWS 1.24




The above message written by someone using my account was not by me. Please don
t flame, the beilefs in that article are not my own. Wait till I write my own
message and then flame me, thanks..... I let him borrow my account so I am not
schitozid yet. *grin*  

                                                  
Xref: sparky alt.pagan:13202 talk.politics.guns:24368