HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: schan@birch.srg.af.mil (Stephen Chan x4485)
Subject: Re: women MAs and Model Mugging
Organization: SRG, Arinc Research Corp., Annapolis, MD
Distribution: usa
Date: Fri, 25 Sep 92 14:46:00 GMT

In article <72752@apple.Apple.COM> mikel@Apple.COM (Mikel Evins) writes:
>>>>In article <1992Sep18.152141.5626@lloyd.Camex.COM> ma@lloyd.Camex.COM (Mary Ann Purcell) writes:
>>>>>
>>>In article <1992Sep21.173333.12929@cbfsb.cb.att.com> osan@cbnewsb.cb.att.com (Mr. X) writes:
>>>>	Contraire.  I have even recently stated that I see male/female anatomy
>>>>	as being essentially equal as it pertains to the martial arts.  The
>>>>	main weakness in the female is the weakness of spirit, which can be
>>>        ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>>>
>>>    I find this statement VERY insulting.  It's 1992 for gods sake....  
>>>    you come accross as very pompous indeed.  Would you care to list the 
>>>    rest of the waeknesses we females have?  
>
>Three or four of the tougher fighters I know are women.
>However, I would have to say that Andy's implicit message
>about women in the martial arts seems to be more or
>less accurate to me. It also appears to jibe with the
>opinions of those tough women fighters I mentioned.

	My sister was a collegiate fencer and says the same thing about female
fencers - they generally have a weak fighting spirit. Of course, there are
exceptions (my sister, for example, is an extremely aggressive fencer).

	It may be 1992, but history has a lot of momentum.

	Stephen
--
	Stephen Chan
	uunet!srg!schan or uunet!srg!schan@uunet.uu.net
From: jon@zeus.med.utah.edu (Jonathan Byrd)
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
Subject: Re: My first tournament - pointers?
Date: 28 Sep 92 17:22:22 GMT
Article-I.D.: zeus.JON.92Sep28102222
	<1992Sep22.121935.14520@relay.nswc.navy.mil>
	<19nqhoINNin1@moe.ksu.ksu.edu> <12883@ecs.soton.ac.uk>
Organization: University of Utah

In article <12883@ecs.soton.ac.uk> rit@ecs.soton.ac.uk (Richard Taylor) writes:

   That's what I thought until I actually had to be a corner judge. I can't 
   say it was the most enjoyable experience of my life :-(  Never again :-)

richard is right; you must be a judge (or referee) to appreciate the
difficulty involved.

mentally, judging a free sparring match is like fighting two people.
you must keep your perception sharp for long periods of time.  it is
very tiring.

as a corner judge, you must always question your point of view.  if
your view is from the side, you can judge distance well, but not
accuracy.  if your view is from behind one fighter, you can judge
accuracy well, but not distance.  you must exclude yourself from
judging any point for which you do not have a good view.  you must
also make the subtle distinction between "i saw that there was no
point scored," and "i did not see any point scored."

being a referee is quite different from corner judging.  your ability
to move with the contestants is critical.  when the fighters circle,
you must also circle, but in the opposite direction.  if you're good,
you can get a much better view than a corner judge can, but you must
keep more things in mind since the flow of the match depends largely
on you.  additionally, you must always maintain control, and be ready
to intervene if things get out of hand.  it is hard to exaggerate the
danger involved in breaking up a brawl between two skilled fighters
when knocking them out is not an option.  you must be a strong,
forceful presence at all times, especially in men's heavyweight brown
and black belt matches.

in my opinion, any referee or judge who honestly tries to do a good
job is deserving of our respect, no matter how many bad calls he or
she makes.
--
jonathan byrd
jon@apollo.med.utah.edu
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts,soc.culture.japan
From: asyb420@chpc.utexas.edu (Michael Moscoso)
Subject: Kendo Directory
Followup-To: poster
Keywords: Kendo
Organization: The University of Texas System CHPC
Distribution: usa
Date: Fri, 2 Oct 92 14:59:51 GMT

  I am working on compiling a directory of every Kendo dojo in the United States
  which will be made available to any Kendoist who has a computer account on 
  the net.  The directory will contain the following information:

  Dojo Name
  Address of Dojo
  Phone Number of Dojo
  Name of Contact Person
  Address of Contact Person
  Phone Number of Contact Person
  Email Address of Contact Person

    Please send me via email the above information about your dojo and also any
    other dojos that you know of in your regional federation.  Also, I would
    appreciate any advice or suggestions that you might have regarding this 
    project.

  I can be reached at:  asyb420@hermes.chpc.utexas.edu

  Thank you for your help.

  Respectfully,

  Michael D. Moscoso
  University of Texas Kendo Association
  Austin Kendo Doshikai





-- 
Standard disclaimers apply
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
From: schan@birch.srg.af.mil (Stephen Chan x4485)
Subject: Re: Cost Differences???
Organization: SRG, Arinc Research Corp., Annapolis, MD
Date: Mon, 05 Oct 92 15:45:30 GMT

In article <13378@texsun.Central.Sun.COM> dbernard@thewho.Central.Sun.COM writes:
[ stuff about belt testing (which I agree with) deleted]
>	I don't call a master carpenter master, I call him Bob, although I may be
>	amazed at the skill he has.  I don't care if a person calls himself
>	"Powerful Deity," but I have to wonder when he expects other people to
>	call him that, and to treat him as such, and to bow to him.  Now, such
>	may be part of some cultures, but it's artificial in late 20th century
>	America.

	Well, guy, given the diversity of late 20th century American culture,
I don't think it that it's out of place.
	Say, are you a tradition-phobe?

	Can I advance a theory?

	My theory is that the source of this anti-traditionalism often comes
from people who are effective fighters, but do not have recognition from
"traditional" organizations. So, to validate their own authority, they turn
into tradition-phobes, and claim that traditional training is bogus and that
their new, improved, modern system is infinitely better.
	As far as I am concerned, this kind of anti-traditionalism is a
political expediency masquerading as objective truth.

	This of course, is no reflection on the fighting ability of people who
study non-traditional systems.
	This also doesn't address the issue of whether some of the people in
traditional systems who call themselves "master" really deserve the title.
There was an article by Dave (?) Lowry of the Yagyu Shinkage-Ryu which argued
that 90%+ of the martial artists in the USA have never seen a true master of
a traditional system.

>  I realize it's part of the martial arts mystique, but if
>	mystique doesn't contribute to fighting ability, it's not something I
>	care about.

	Personally, I'm not big on mystique. But showing respect for tradition
isn't a matter of mystique - it's a matter of appreciating something which is
older, bigger and perhaps more important than yourself.


>	I recognize that many people feel at home with all the traditional trappings,
>	and this isn't a slam on them... it's just my own opinion.

	To each his own.


--
	Stephen Chan
	uunet!srg!schan or uunet!srg!schan@uunet.uu.net
From: aa727@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Johnny Wu)
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
Subject: How students exagerates... :)
Date: 26 Sep 1992 23:26:19 GMT
Organization: Case Western Reserve University, Cleveland, OH (USA)
Reply-To: aa727@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Johnny Wu)
NNTP-Posting-Host: slc12.ins.cwru.edu


I just wanted to share this with those who have some funny moments during
your dojo clases.

I was learning with master Liu back in my country, and one day, a
black belt karate practitioner showed up and wanted to learn internal
chi kung with my master.

Master Liu started to explain to him the procedure of inhale and exhale
and also the stances... Then Master Liu said 'if you feel an energy 
going through your body and you starts to sweat, it means that you are
doing it right...' 

So, the black belt started the chi exercises (by the way, I have never
heard of him, other than that he said he was a black belt in karate), and
so only 5 minutes later, he screamed 'Master Liu, I think I am doing 
a great job, cause I am sweating like hell, and I can feel the heat on
my back!!!'

Hmmm. that's strange, you wasn't supposed to feel it until you are
quite sure of what you are doing.. Hmmmm.. We looked at his back...

He was standing under one 100watts bulb, and since he is standing 
right in the middle of the light spot, and about 1/2 feet away, 
of course he is HOT!!! :)

We never pointed out to him though, we just asked him to move to
some away from the light... :)

-- 
Before you judge the action of a person, THINK!
Re-examine yourself first!  
What have I done to deserve this?  Answer it!
Then, let GOD be the judge of all!
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
From: osborn@socs.uts.edu.au (Tom Osborn)
Subject: Re: On Explaining Aikido
Organization: Computing Sciences, Uni of Technology, Sydney.
Date: 30 Sep 92 06:03:23 GMT

eric.t.zmarzly.1@nd.edu (Eric Zmarzly) writes:

>We have a Aikido club here at school, and each year we try to draw in more
>people to join, as our club is extremely small.  The problem occurs when I
>try to explain Aikido.  I use such words as redirecting the attack, but
>that does not capture to sense of Aikido and Ki and all that weird stuff. 
>If I start speaking of such things, people get put off by it, as Notre Dame
>is extremely catholic and very conservative on such matters.  I am not sure
>what to do.  At what point would it be appropriate to introduce Ki to these
>people, right away or later on?

You could say: "just like Steven Seagal, but not so dorky, vicious, cruel,
ham-acting or 'macho'". But seriously, demos are a good idea, especially
if you can put in some secular (ie, non-martial arts) examples.

I once had a female student in Tai Chi (when I was teaching it but didn't
know much at all - follies of youth). She *would*not* do standing Chi Kung
meditation because it was "sacriligious". Even after her preacher (a man who
must have had a *lot* of patience and tolerance) said it was OK, she would 
not do it. [I has some serious doubts about her ability to stand on one 
leg, or to endure other peoples conversations longer than half a sentence].

The point of this story is that in some settings where the Xtianity may get
a little extreme and dominant (even unhealthy), there may be serious (and 
deeply felt) resistance to some pretty *evil-free* concepts and metaphores.
I won't say anything more in case somebody curses me...

Tomasso.

Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
From: stark@dwovax.enet.dec.com (Todd I. Stark)
Subject: Re: Akido -vs- Akijitsu (meaning of _Aiki_)
Summary: _Aiki_ has come to mean the elements that didn't merge into Judo ??
Organization: Digital Equipment Corporation
Distribution: usa
Date:  6 OCT 92 15:13:38    


osan@cbnewsb.cb.att.com (Mr. X) writes...

>	Aikido was derived from Aiki Jujutsu, Japanese combat art from Hell.
>	It is a modified form of AJJ the has come to stress different things
>	from AJJ, like spiritual enlightenment and kissing your enemy before
>	driving your fist throught their skull.

I tried to say something like that, but I unfortunately I haven't your 
lethal eloquence, Andy.  

>	Aiki Jutsu is the art of developing and applying aiki.  The closest
>	analog I can think of is Chi Kung, and perhaps a bit of Tai Chi.

Damn, I missed your rant, so I want a replay. :-)

This is a tricky language translation issue, but Aiki is a fairly generic 
term, I believe, not specifically related to vital force or internal energy as 
implied by reference to Qigong.  I'm aware that some schools claim to
preserve and a specific technical meaning for Aiki (right down to techniques and
combat exercises) as far back as the the 10th century or so.  But I don't
really think there's much evidence that Aikijutsu is any more than 
a name later reserved for certain schools of Taijutsu or Jujutsu that happened
to emphasize technical elements that were kept outside of Judo (for 
whatever reasons) when most of the JJ schools merged a century ago.   

I suppose the end result is the same, that those elements might as well now 
be lumped under the banner of 'Aiki,' as if it meant something specific
all along, but I'm not sure this isn't semantic hijacking
when you translate it back to the Japanese, who already seem to use 'Aiki'
in a more general manner.  Maybe Dave Scheid or someone else who knows
more about the language issues can help with this.

If you look at the old technical syllabus of the Kito-Ryu and other early
Jujutsu schools, they aren't all that distinct from what is known as 
Aikijutsu, in many ways.  Some just have more emphasis on the subtler points, 
like breath control, postural skills, minimum contact throws, nerve 
techniques.   Separating these out as distinct 'Aiki' is a modern
development though, I think.   Maybe I'm all wet, though ... :-)

>	-Andy V.

					kind regards,

					todd

+-------------------------------------------------------------------+
| Todd I. Stark				  stark@dwovax.enet.dec.com |
| Digital Equipment Corporation		             (215) 354-1273 |
| VAX/VMS Software Support, Blue Bell, Pa.                          |
|    'Reason is no substitute for Passion, nor Passion for Reason.' |
+-------------------------------------------------------------------+
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
From: guay@fraser.sfu.ca (Tim Guay)
Subject: Re: So, some advice on deciding, please? (TKD or H)
Organization: Simon Fraser University, Burnaby, B.C., Canada
Date: Sat, 26 Sep 1992 16:12:18 GMT

>In article <Bv2070.Hqn@usenet.ucs.indiana.edu>, 
>shulick@yankton.ucs.indiana.edu (Sam Hulick) writes:
>> 
>> If some idiot on the street threatens me, I want to be able to ...
>> ... inflict a reasonable amount of damage so said person won't mess with 
>> me anymore.
>
Hapkido would also do the trick! It is designed for street fighting. Or if
you are more poetic a form of Kung Fu that is a combat form such as Hung Gar
would also do...

Still I rather like Hapkido...

===============================================================================
  Ta Ta For Now      | Beware of the demon Wizzy Wig, the father of 
        Tim          | typographic lies... 
===============================================================================
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
From: fcrary@ucsu.Colorado.EDU (Frank Crary)
Subject: Re: On Explaining Aikido
Organization: University of Colorado, Boulder
Date: Tue, 6 Oct 1992 01:04:19 GMT

In article <92277.173034U55870@uicvm.uic.edu> David James Alexander Hanley <U55870@uicvm.uic.edu> writes:
>>The other example someone gave me is when you feel another person
>>staring at you.  In Viet Nam, recon people were not to stare at
>>the enemy for any length of time, or they would "feel" it.

>  'Feeling' another person staring at you is a bunch of hocus-pocus.

Not necessarily, but identifying this with a "sixth" sense probably is.

>>Although this may not be ki in the strict sense, it was explained
>>to me that it is an "energy", and that similar affects can be
>>identified, developed, and used, whether they be mental or physical.

>  Unfortunately, theynever seem to be identified under scientific
>conditions.  I wonder why that is?

I suspect because any scientific studies on the subject were carefull
to weed out "feelings" for the usual senses.

I think "feeling" someone looking at you is simply a matter of 
subconsciously noticing details that are too minor to trigger 
conscious notice (possibly also combining information from several
senses, such as sight and hearing. I don't believe the conscious
mind is all that good at combining data from several senses...)
It isn't too hard to believe that some things (i.e. what one's instincts
might class as a potential threat) are more likely to produce this
subconscious reaction.

To me, this makes perfect sense in terms of chi: If I had to offer a
physical, scientific definition of it, I'd make an analogy to the 
concept of "consciousness", that is the interactions between
sensory input, conscious thought processes and bodliy motions. I
think chi can be well described (though perhaps not usefully described)
as the _sub_concious equivilent: The awareness produces by the
interaction of one's senses, instincts and reflexes. Of course,
this doesn't perfectly match with chi gung, but it is very
compatable: For example, one might equally well describe "flowing
chi into your hands" as focusing the above mentioned awareness on
one's hands and (possibly) doing _something_ to improve the
its effectiveness.

However, the details of what chi really is, or how it works, isn't
extremely important: It is a (apparently quite good) metaphor for
_some_ real aspect of mind/body interactions. I don't think it
is necessary to understand the exact details, any more than I need
to understand the medical details of the brain in order to think.

                                              Frank Crary
                                              CU Boulder
From: robinson@cogsci.Berkeley.EDU (Michael Robinson)
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
Subject: Re: A few questions about T'ai Chi..
Date: 28 Sep 1992 20:04:57 GMT
Organization: Institute of Cognitive Studies, U.C. Berkeley
NNTP-Posting-Host: cogsci.berkeley.edu

In article <23734@sybase.sybase.com> thorick@sybase.com (Thorick Chow) writes:
>Hmmm...  this doesn't seem to ring true to me...  it seems more that
>the Chen forms are more 'explicit' about [twining, energy, etc.]
>(it's more outwardly obvious)..

The argument, if I understand correctly, is that there are aspects of Yang
style that are not readily apparent, but which are obvious in Chen style.
I agree.

However, I also submit that there are many more subtleties in Chen style that
are not readily apparent, and that these do not exist in Yang style at all.

>>Yang style evolved to make it more accessible.  In particular, Yang Cheng-fu
>>repackaged it as an exercise for the elderly and infirm.  Anything that was
>>difficult in the original Chen style was eventually removed.
>
>To clarify, I assume that you mean 'physically' difficult, such as
>'splits' etc..

Physically difficult, mentally difficult, difficult to coordinate,
difficult to understand, etc.

All I know is that Yang style has always been easy (almost innate) for me,
while I still feel Chen style is way over my head.


-- 
  ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
  Michael Robinson                          UUCP:   ucbvax!cogsci!robinson
                                        INTERNET: robinson@cogsci.berkeley.edu
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
From: drury@helix.nih.gov (Richard Drury)
Subject: Re: Model Mugging (long)
Organization: National Institutes of Health, Bethesda
Date: Wed, 30 Sep 1992 04:42:47 GMT

In article LGOODIN@WORLDBANK.ORG (Laura Goodin) writes:
>In article schan@birch.srg.af.mil (Stephen Chan x4485) wrote:
>> 	I just stay out of eastern DC.
>
>Don't kid yourself.  I live, work, and train in Northwest DC and it's not
>much better most places all over town.  Remember the World Bank staffer's
>kid who was shot while doing yardwork?  In one of the "best" parts of town? 
>For no reason whatsoever?

I agree it is better to steer clear of the known free fire
zones, but Laura is right that this isn't so simple anymore. 
The people who perpetrate this violence are pretty mobile these
days.  Any sociopath with a 9mm can rip off a hot set of wheels. 
And this shit doesn't just happen in shittiest parts of town. It
happens in the upper-middle class suburb of Bethesda, MD on the
street where I work (colleague shot to death for her Nissan). 
It happens in the exurban enclave of Columbia, MD where I used
to live (woman dragged to death behind her Acura Legend during
car-jacking attempt).  And, as Laura mentioned, it happened the
other day in my neighborhood of Chevy Chase, MD when a guy with
a gun murdered a 15 year old kid who was pulling weeds in his 
front yard.

I hate to sound like chicken little, but the level of lethal 
violence has been steadily escalating around here for some time.
For all I know, you moved here from Beirut, and this all seems 
pretty tame.  But if not, take some time to size things up before
deciding that you can actually avoid violence by picking and 
choosing which parts of the area to frequent.
--
Richard A. Drury
drury@helix.nih.gov
From: dbernard@thewho.Central.Sun.COM (Dave Bernard)
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
Subject: Re: Cost Differences???
Date: 29 Sep 92 12:48:08 GMT
Reply-To: dbernard@thewho.Central.Sun.COM
Organization: Sun Microsystems

>
>Test Fees are not bogus in many cases.  My sensei used to charge $20+ for each
>belt test, regardless of color/level.

Whatever someone feels comfortable paying is totally up to them.  But if a fee
is used to help keep the place running, I'd suggest the dues just be raised an
equal amount, just to eliminate the appearance or temptation to proliferate
belt tests.  After all, if I'm taking an academic course, I don't expect to
have to pay extra just to take my finals and pass on to the next sequence.

But to each his own.  I won't call a karate instructor "Master" in any language,
despite the degree of respect I have for him, how learned he is, or how much
he can beat me up.  In late 20th century America, I can't see why I have to call
a karate instructor "master" while I call a PhD professor "Bob."  But to each his
own.

	Dave
From: robinson@cogsci.Berkeley.EDU (Michael Robinson)
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
Subject: Re: Yang & Chen (was Re: A few questions about T'ai Chi..)
Date: 28 Sep 1992 19:27:40 GMT
Organization: Institute of Cognitive Studies, U.C. Berkeley
NNTP-Posting-Host: cogsci.berkeley.edu

In article <osborn.717381783@dragon> osborn@socs.uts.edu.au (Tom Osborn) writes:
>
>I've seen arguments that the San Sau forms (A & B - the two person set from
>Yang Style) came from Pau Chui (second Chen form).

Well, I've studied my tape of Chen Xiaowang doing Pau Chui, and I must say I 
don't see any similarity.

>Like Pau Chui they are 
>more "elbow/shoulder/down/split" than "peng/lu/chi/an" from Chen Lu #1, 

First of all, I don't think a "corners" vs. "cardinals" evaluation is at all
meaningful for either Chen form.  Chen style just doesn't work that way.

Secondly, I don't think the San Shou form is particularly "corner" oriented;
it may appear so in comparison to the long form (in which elbow/shoulder/
pulldown/split are almost completely absent), but the overall distribution of
techniques in San Shou is rather balanced.


-- 
  ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
  Michael Robinson                          UUCP:   ucbvax!cogsci!robinson
                                        INTERNET: robinson@cogsci.berkeley.edu
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
From: osan@cbnewsb.cb.att.com (Mr. X)
Subject: Re: (what should I carry ?)
Organization: Twilight Zone
Date: Wed, 30 Sep 1992 15:57:31 GMT

In article <1992Sep29.210321.18746@socrates.umd.edu> doug@UC780.UMD.EDU writes:
>In article <1992Sep29.154315.15937@cbfsb.cb.att.com>, osan@cbnewsb.cb.att.com (Mr. X) writes:
>>	If they really knew anything about naked kill methods (improvised 
>>	weapons) I don't think anyone would be able to get on to an airplane 
>>	with a shred of clothing on their backs.  Could make for rather 
>>	interesting flights though. 
>>
>
>Wait, I thought that reference in Shibuimi was merely myth...

	Nope.

	-Andy V.