HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: tichauer@valpso.hanse.de (Manfredo Tichauer)
Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast
Subject: Kind request to Hasan Mutlu and others of his kind
Date: 18 Aug 92 15:55:09 GMT
Organization: "The Private site of Manfredo Tichauer"

This is MY private request to Hasan Mutlu and all others of his kind :
 
PLEASE DON'T TRY TO DEFEND OUR (JEWISH) CAUSE. WE CAN DO IT MUCH BETTER SINCE
WE KNOW BETTER THAN YOU OUR LONG HISTORY.  You (and some others) pretend to 
plead for the Jewish people, but you are only misusing us for YOUR objects.
There is an old saying (I don't know from where it is):

               Dear G'D,  please protect me from my  "friends".
               From my enemies I can protect and defend myself. 
 -----------------------------------------------------------------------------
  Manfredo Tichauer M.                       EMAIL : tichauer@valpso.hanse.de
  Opitzstrasse 14                            VOICE :     (++ 49 40)  27.42.27
  2000 Hamburg 60 - GERMANY                  FAX   :     (++ 49 40) 270.53.09
 -----------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: aboelaze@cs.yorku.ca (Mokhtar Aboelaze)
Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast
Subject: Re: Muslims killed in Yeguslavia
Date: 17 Aug 92 22:16:00 GMT
Article-I.D.: yetti.1404
Organization: York University, Dept. of Computer Science

In article <Bt579J.9ED@apollo.hp.com> goykhman_a@apollo.hp.com (Alex Goykhman) writes:
>
>
>    Chances are, the grenades were launched from the Muslim-controlled 
>    territory.  One thing is certain - the only beneficiary of the
>    attack was the Bosnian Muslim war propaganda machine.
>
                                                                         
Right, don't you know that blacks in South Arfica are responsible for
apartheid, afterall, they are the only beneficiary of the whole
world opposing S.A. govrnment.
The Jews put theselves in gas chambers in Nazi Germany, afterall
they are the only beneficiary of forming the state of Israel after WWII

Mr. Goykhman. Chaneces are, you are sick.


--Mokhtar Aboelaze
Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast
From: nabil@ncrcol.ColumbiaSC.NCR.COM (Nabil Idriss)
Subject: Re: He Who Saves a Single Soul...
Organization: NCR E&M Columbia SC.
Date: Thu, 20 Aug 92 15:52:47 GMT

>>
>>Why did you emphasize "Arabs" instead of "Moslem" countries? There is 
>>a lot of them like Pakistan, Iran, Azerbijan, Turkey.You also speak 
>>like you own the whole land of Palestine. Remember that it belongs to
>>Arab Moslems as well.     
>
>At the moment, Nabil, we *do* own the whole thing except the part that
>is Jordan. You may not like the fact; you may be trying as hard as you
>can to change it, but it's true for right now.
>

Well, I realize that, but what about the Arabs inside Israel, they don't
have the right to adopt or bring-in orphans? Don't they hold Israeli
passports. What about the non-Israeli's in Gazz and the WB? They don't
have the right too? 

>We know that; that's the point. Israel is already considerably more
>badly overpopulated than Saudi Arabia is, and can much less afford
>to take in anyone they don't have to. But Saudi Arabia is getting
>rid of other Arabs, whereas Israel is taking in not only any Jews
>who want to come, but non-Jewish refugees on purely humanitarian
>grounds. So don't start trying to talk to me about Israeli ruth-
>lessness and selfishness or about Muslim solidarity.
>
You have to be fair with the Arab population too if you claim 
democracy.


-- 
Nabil Idriss                           |       FOR EVERY ACTION AN OPPOSITE  
NCR - Midrange Products Division       |       AND EQUAL REACTION.
      Columbia, South Carolina         |      
email: nabil@ncrcol.ColumbiaSC.NCR.COM |
Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast
From: nabil@ncrcol.ColumbiaSC.NCR.COM (Nabil Idriss)
Subject: Re: BILL CLINTON ON ISRAEL AND THE MIDDLE
Organization: NCR E&M Columbia SC.
Date: Sat, 22 Aug 92 20:47:36 GMT

>Because Rabin is bending over backwards to get everybody talking, at
>all costs. I approve of this, for the most part -- I don't see anything
>wrong with *talking* to anyone, no matter what they're doing... at very
>minimum, it gets you more information with which to fight them later,
>and you can always say 'no'. But the charter has definitely not been
>cancelled -- and Hizbollah is still saying things like "the war will
>not end until Israel no longer exists and every Jew in the world has
>been annihilated."

I am against Hizbollah. They are Lebanese/Iranian Moslem fanatics. These 
are the ones that you should not talk to regarding peace in the middle east.
By the way, they believe that Jerusalem should be ruled only by Islam. 

>Yes. Capturing or destroying a nation's capital qualifies as a last
>resort. If somebody was on the verge of capturing Washington, do you
>think the U.S. would use nuclear weapons?
>
>You just haven't gotten it through your head yet that Jerusalem is the
>capital of Israel, and will get treated like any other nation treats
>its capital -- it's part of your regular "I don't like it, so I won't
>acknowledge that it's true." This does you no good.
>

No! you have not gotten it through your head that you can capture land
by force and declare it yours. Forget about the idea that Jerusalem is
the capital of Israel because it never have been and never will. Besides
why should I take your word that you will not use nuclear weapon unless
if you have it? You are not a saint neither do I neither Saddam Hussein.
At a point of anger you might push that button and endanger the life of
Arab children.
>


-- 
Nabil Idriss                           |       FOR EVERY ACTION AN OPPOSITE  
NCR - Midrange Products Division       |       AND EQUAL REACTION.
      Columbia, South Carolina         |      
email: nabil@ncrcol.ColumbiaSC.NCR.COM |
From: davidba@carmel.technion.ac.il (David Ben_Ami)
Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast
Subject: Re: Israeli Loan Guarantees
Date: 13 Aug 92 19:19:32 GMT
Organization: Technion, Israel Inst. of Technology

In article <3568@copper.Denver.Colorado.EDU> aaldoubo@copper.denver.colorado.edu (Anisa Alnoor Aldoubosh) writes:
>I didn't see any postings in regard to Bush's latest ploy to
>obtain popular support - guaranteeing the $10 billion to
>Israel solely on Rabin's word of freezing settlement activity.

What do you want more than his word? that he'll cut his right hand?
Israel gave up Sinai for Egypt's word not to break the contract.

Well after he tortured Shamir to death about this settlement 
issue - he have to do it. I guess it was so even if there were
no elections. He wanted to topple Shamir and used the Guarantees
as a whip. now that he succeeded he's giving it to Rabin.

>Wasn't it made even sweeter with Rabin's gesture of inviting
>the PLO to the peace talks?

Sweeter to whom? Why include those terrorists? Madrid got along 
just fine without them.
 
>Do posters here really believe that Bush is anti-semitic now
>and are they understanding the reality of politics and its
>cycle?

I think he hated Shamir for having the guts to stand up to him,
many Jews interpreted it as hating Jews. actually this act of
phoney friendship does prove that Bush likes submisive Jews.
I think he is a cynical politician but the guarantess were given
without the elections (although slower).

>Anisa

David.
-- 
=============================================================================
  David Ben-Ami (irc: bigdav)      |   "I can resist anything but Temptation"
  s2780369@Techst02.Technion.Ac.Il |       Oscar Wilde
  davidba@Carmel.Technion.Ac.Il  davidba@Moav.Techniona.Ac.Il
From: ilyess@athena.concordia.ca (Ilyess Bdira)
Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast
Subject: Re: Arab tribalism
Date: 13 Aug 92 16:39:17 GMT
Organization: ECE - Concordia University

In article <8ca-PW@engin.umich.edu> hani@gilasun.engin.umich.edu (Hani Abinassif) writes:
>Your sarcasim mode is the essence of this tribal thinking...
>_Hani

Could you explain your statement in more than one sentence?
I admit I am not that smart, and I am not psychic either..
Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast
From: dzk@cs.brown.edu (Danny Keren)
Subject: Re: Arab/Isreali Wars
Organization: Brown University Department of Computer Science
Date: Thu, 20 Aug 1992 03:04:24 GMT

In article <1992Aug19.224742.24952@trl.oz.au> a.Faris@trl.oz.au writes:
#
#I don't know, however, I saw a documentary when I lived in the 
#US on PBS that analysed
#the 1973 war. It turned out that the syrian army could 
#have destroyed Isreal had they
#not stopped and waited for re-inforcements that were not 
#needed. 

I guess I am going to finally cave in and join this infantile debate.
Firstly, the goal of Egypt and Syria in the 1973 war was not to
annihilate Israel, which is maybe why they did better than in the
1967 war, in which it was indeed their goal - perhaps armies fight
better when a realistic goal is pursued. It is true that Syria's
defense minister, mad dog Mustafa "the cannibal" Tlas, wanted an all
out war, but Sadat and Assad were smarter; they wanted to grab a
piece and hold on to it. No Arab forces could go far without the
massive anti-aircraft umbrella, and, anyway, they probably knew
very well what would happen if they went too far.

I suggest two good books about that war, "The War of Attornemnet" (sp?)
by Chaim Herzog and "Road to Ramadan" by Mohammed Hasnin Heickal.

-Danny Keren.
From: stricher@masig.fsu.edu (Char Aznabul)
Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast
Subject: Re: Scudbusters
Date: 14 Aug 92 22:05:02 GMT
Followup-To: talk.politics.mideast
Organization: Murasami Labs

Danny Keren wrote:
> 
> I eggertj@atc.ll.mit.edu writes:


> #Seems to me that either the Israelis aren't so hot at identifying and
> #killing targets after all, or that the Liberty story as told in public
> #is wrong.  Take your choice.
> 
> Mistakes happen in war, even to the best and most expereinced air-forces.
> On the six-day war, Israeli jets starfed an Israeli armored column. In
> the 1982 war in Lebanon, 25 Israeli soldiers were killed within a few
> minutes when Israeli Phantom jets mistakengly took them to be Syrian
> troops.

Yes, but THREE TIMES? On the same ship? and they didn't SINK it???
The Argentinians flying A-4's with 500lb bombs had better luck than
that against the brits.

K'Char
From: craiga@csd4.csd.uwm.edu (Craig R Albrechtson)
Subject: Re: Where Does 'Tam*'s Ignorance Stem From? Greek Anti-Semitism.
Organization: Cyberdyne Systems 
Date: Tue, 18 Aug 1992 17:03:53 GMT

In article <kutluk.714044231@ccl.umist.ac.uk> kutluk@ccl.umist.ac.uk (Kutluk Ozguven) writes:
>In <Bsvwxn.I1J@news.cso.uiuc.edu> ptg2351@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (Panos Tamamidis ) writes:
>> Yo, jerks. Got offended when I wrote that Turks don't work hard in the
>> summer?  Afraid that next months paycheck from Turkey won't arrive?
>
>> Come on creeps. Still have many mails unanswered.  Move your asses
>> and work harder.
>
>
>I wonder how other Greeks netters feel with such a racist languge directed to
>the entire Turkish nation. 
>
>Kutluk

Ahh, look guys this is TALK.POLITICS.SOVIET so keep your stupid turkish-greek
flame war off this news group.   As far as I see it and I am sure that
many out there will agree that posts of this nature have no place on 
this newsgroup.  

Actually I think this group should be moderated so to keep the endless
posts of Mutlu and others who wish to waste our time having to read 
posts which have little to do with the soviet union.

What do you other people think???
-- 
************************************************************************
* Craig Reese Albrechtson (Slider) * University of Wisconsin Milwaukee *
* The usual meanless disclaimers apply * craiga@csd4.csd.uwm.edu       *
************************************************************************
From: rdtst+@pitt.edu (Richard D Thorne)
Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast
Subject: Re: Lehi and nazies
Date: 12 Aug 92 17:10:32 GMT
Organization: University of Pittsburgh

| The allies did many things during WWII which I beleive were unnecessary
| and wrong. However the only scenario in which you can justify an alleged
| Jewish nationalist offering to make a pact with the NAZIs is if the
| British were worse.
| 
| 
| Phill Hallam-Baker
| 

    With the aid of hindsight it is clear that the Yishuv's decision to not
    fight the British during WWII was a wise one, but that only makes
    LEHI wrong not evil.  This thread started with the allegation that since
    LEHI wanted to fight the British and get the weapons from the Germans 
    they therefore had similar values as the Nazis.  If Shamir and LEHI
    are to be judged for their actions then the behavior of the British
    should be taken into account.  The White paper and the policy of 
    preventing Jewish immigration was an evil, not a great as what the Nazis
    are guilty of, but still a great wrong.

         Richard Thorne
From: ilyess@davinci.concordia.ca (Ilyess Bdira)
Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast
Subject: Re: NUKE IRAQ
Date: 12 Aug 92 16:15:44 GMT
Organization: ECE - Concordia University

In article <oeVR2UK00WB685wEZW@andrew.cmu.edu> re0x+@andrew.cmu.edu (Radu Eugen Edelstein) writes:
>Ilyess writes:
>Saddam couldn't care less about his people.. The U.S intentionally
>spared him to let him crash the shiites. So the war was not about
>Saddam and his little aggression, it is about Iraq and its resources
>and economic and military power, which if they fall in the hands of really
>hostile forces (to Israel that is) such as an independed  democratic
>
>
>I say:
>Why would an independent *and democratic* leadership of Irak be
>hostile to Israel ?  When did Israel agress the Irakis and what do
>Irkis themselves have to divide with Israel ?
>

I realize that my statement was not obvious for anbody who is
not familiar with the Arab Israeli conflict, but I thought you
should know.

It is a fact that most (if not all) Arab dictatorships are
not sincere about anything including the conflict with Israel. They
always offer lip service to the Palestinians while stabbing them
in the back and benefit from the situation to prolong their
reign of terror just because they are "War-front states.."

A democratic government will be by definition sincere (it has to be,
since it represents the people) and it will pressure Israel into
giving away to Palestinian demands or face a REAL WAR..
The superiority of Israel is a myth, because they never faught a 
sincere army that is determined to win. They faught some losers who
used the conflict to prolong their dictatorship.
Israel can not survive a month of war, that is why all the past wars
were so short.

When Israel realizes that it is dealing with real people (hopefully
before such a war would happen), they will agree to sign a real
just peace treaty. Any agreement before that is illegitimate and immature. 

>Rad
From: schultz@garnet.berkeley.edu (Richard Schultz)
Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast
Subject: Tangential questions (was Re: Lehi and nazies)
Date: 17 Aug 1992 15:46:08 GMT
Organization: University of California, Berkeley
NNTP-Posting-Host: garnet.berkeley.edu

In article <22219@venera.isi.edu> arens@ISI.EDU (Yigal Arens) writes:

>In fact, the Revisionist movement (which spawned LEHI and ETZEL) had a
>strong fascist element in it.  Read material by Abba Ahimeir sometime.
>Many in these groups really did feel an afinity with European fascists,
>and I see no reason to doubt what the LEHI people themselves wrote in
>their letter to the Nazis: they wanted to form in Palestine a Jewish
>fascist state.

Reading this paragraph brought up some further questions in my mind:

(1) What was Sadat's reason for supporting the Nazis during World War II?

(2) If anti-fascism is so important to Dr. Arens, why do he and his buddies
at the JCOME refuse to complain about the government of Syria, which is 
harboring Alois Brunner, possibly the outstanding remaining Nazi war criminal?

					Richard Schultz
Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast
From: anwar+@cs.cmu.edu (Anwar Mohammed)
Subject: Re: answering Mr jaber
Organization: School of Computer Science, Carnegie Mellon
Date: Fri, 14 Aug 1992 21:58:16 GMT



If I ever hear a hint of self-criticism in any of Anisa's posts,
I think I might die from shock.   When will the blame-shifting
end I wonder?

-- 
Anwar Mohammed                           Graduate Student
anwar+@cs.cmu.edu  (NeXTmail welcome)    School of Computer Science
Voice: +1 412 268 3043                   Carnegie-Mellon University
Fax:   +1 412 681 5739                   Pittsburgh, PA  15213-3890
Organization: Masters student, Information Networking Institute, Carnegie Mellon, Pittsburgh, PA
Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast
Date: Fri, 14 Aug 1992 02:51:36 -0400 
From: Radu Eugen Edelstein <re0x+@andrew.cmu.edu>
Subject: Re: Israeli Loan Guarantees

Anisa writes:
>Do posters here really believe that Bush is anti-semitic now
>and are they understanding the reality of politics and its
>cycle?


I say:
Bush is fighting for his own seat now, here, in the US.  To move
Baker to his campaign shows how much he is concerned about what
happenes in Israel (except that he doesn't forget to make this
last moment move to try to atract some of the lost pro-Israel
voters).

Rad
From: arens@ISI.EDU (Yigal Arens)
Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast
Subject: Re: Lehi and nazies
Date: 20 Aug 92 23:39:47 GMT
	<1992Aug17.124742.22031@dscomsf.desy.de>
	<1992Aug5.132631.11439@dscomsf.desy.de> <4428@blue.cis.pitt.edu.UUCP>
	<1992Aug11.152038.1571@dscomsf.desy.de>
	<1992Aug12.221202.22829@bony1.bony.com>
	<1992Aug18.231549.23340@usene
Organization: USC/Information Sciences Institute
In-reply-to: bx573@cleveland.Freenet.Edu's message of 20 Aug 92 21:26:52 GMT

In article <1992Aug20.212652.6852@usenet.ins.cwru.edu> bx573@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Alan H. Stein) writes:
>
> In a previous article, bdm@cs.anu.edu.au (Brendan McKay) says:
>
> >>Let's get real here.  Shamir wasn't offering aid;  he was trying to deal
> >>with them in order to save Jewish lives.  There's a significant difference,
> >>which you are totally ignoring.
> >
> >Enough is enough!  If you have never read the offer OF ACTIVE HELP
> >that Lehi made to the Nazis, why are you making a fool of yourself
> >by pontificating about it?  If you _have_ read it, why are you lying?
> >
> Active help in return for what?  My point has been that they were trying to
> save Jewish lives, not trying to help the Nazis...

Ok, this does it.  You're knowingly lying, that is clear now.  Your
repeated assertions concerning the reasons behind LEHIs offer to fight
on the German side are nothing but your own baseless invention.
--
Yigal Arens   "He seems like an average type of man.  He's not, like, smart.
USC/ISI        I'm not trying to bag on him or anything, but he has the same
arens@isi.edu  mentality I have -- and I'm in the eighth grade."     Vanessa
               Martinez, after VP Quayle's visit to her school-LA Times 5/21
From: schultz@garnet.berkeley.edu (Richard Schultz)
Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast
Subject: Re: Bosnia, Concentration Camps, Dr.Arens
Date: 17 Aug 1992 15:47:21 GMT
Organization: University of California, Berkeley
NNTP-Posting-Host: garnet.berkeley.edu

In article <22184@venera.isi.edu> arens@ISI.EDU (Yigal Arens) writes:

>The question *I* was responding to was, "Have Jewish groups condemned
>ethnic cleansing"? -- not, "Have they condemned concentration camps",
>but have they condemned "ethnic cleansing".

Did the JCOME?

					Richard Schultz
Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast
From: rivk@ellis.uchicago.edu (nora gayle rivkis)
Subject: Re: He Who Saves a Single Soul...
Reply-To: rivk@midway.uchicago.edu
Organization: University of Chicago Computing Organizations
Date: Thu, 20 Aug 1992 21:07:50 GMT

In article <1992Aug20.155247.4700@ncrcae.ColumbiaSC.NCR.COM> nabil@ncrcol.ColumbiaSC.NCR.COM (Nabil Idriss) writes:
>>>
>>>Why did you emphasize "Arabs" instead of "Moslem" countries? There is 
>>>a lot of them like Pakistan, Iran, Azerbijan, Turkey.You also speak 
>>>like you own the whole land of Palestine. Remember that it belongs to
>>>Arab Moslems as well.     
>>
>>At the moment, Nabil, we *do* own the whole thing except the part that
>>is Jordan. You may not like the fact; you may be trying as hard as you
>>can to change it, but it's true for right now.
>>
>
>Well, I realize that, but what about the Arabs inside Israel, they don't
>have the right to adopt or bring-in orphans? Don't they hold Israeli
>passports. What about the non-Israeli's in Gazz and the WB? They don't
>have the right too? 

No, they don't have the right to bring in immigrants without the
government's okay, either by adopting them or by any other means. Nor
do the Jewish citizens. Nobody has a right to immigrate to any country,
with or without the sponsorship of residents of that country, without
government approval; regulating immigration is a standard government
function. In this case, the government has said okay, which makes it
fine. In some cases, the Law of Return being the most obvious, the
government issues a blanket okay to a fairly wide range of people. The
right to decide, however, belongs to the state as it does to every other
state in the world, and not to any individual, whether Arab or Jew.

>>We know that; that's the point. Israel is already considerably more
>>badly overpopulated than Saudi Arabia is, and can much less afford
>>to take in anyone they don't have to. But Saudi Arabia is getting
>>rid of other Arabs, whereas Israel is taking in not only any Jews
>>who want to come, but non-Jewish refugees on purely humanitarian
>>grounds. So don't start trying to talk to me about Israeli ruth-
>>lessness and selfishness or about Muslim solidarity.
>>
>You have to be fair with the Arab population too if you claim 
>democracy.

I wasn't claiming democracy... although you're wrong; anyone who
thinks democracy means fairness hasn't studied history. Democracy
is majority rule; it is as good and fair as the majority is, or as
bad. What the majority decides to do has no effect whatsoever on
whether a country is dempcratic, although it does on whether the
country is good -- the two have littlw to do with each other. But
my point was not that Israel was democratic in the first place; it
was that the Arab countries are being consistently less decent to
other Arabs and Muslims than Israel is to a variety of Arabs and
Muslims.

>Nabil Idriss      

-- 
"Light one candle for those who are suffering pain we learned so long ago..."

Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast