From: holzman@fnalo.fnal.gov (Daniel B. Holzman)
Subject: Re: stereotypes - and a request
Organization: FERMILAB
Date: Tue, 21 Jul 1992 22:23:11 GMT
X-Posted-From: fnalo.fnal.gov
X-Posted-Through: sol.ctr.columbia.edu

In article <fP8NKIC@quack.sac.ca.us>, pharvey@quack.sac.ca.us (Paul Harvey) 
writes:
> Would you tell me more about these feminist who don't want equal rights.
> Are there any Congresswomen whom you think are in this group? How about
> Barbara Jordan? How about the novelist Susan Faludi? 

Barbara Jordan has gone on record making anti-male (not anti-sexist or
anti-patriarchy, but anti-male) statements.

I am suspicious of Faludi's attack on Bly in her book.

> What types of
> proposals have this group of feminists that you are warning about put
> forward that would remove rights from men? Can you be specific? 

Have you read any of the works of Barbara Walker?  In _Skeptical Feminist_,
she calls for a matriarchal society in which social and political power is
placed in the hands of women, and in which Goddess worship is used as a social
control to keep men under the control of women.

Have you read Z. Budapest's _Holy Book of Woman's Mysteries_?  She equates men
with death, women with life, and then says that as death must be in service to
life, men must be in service to women, and proposes this as a model for
societal structure.

Have you seen the latest issue of Green Egg?  A fellow by the name of Bird
Brother has called for men to surrender all policy making power to women.

I can easily go on, but I think this is a representative beginning, providing
you with plenty of reading to support the argument that such feminists exist.

> And can you define at what point, as you say, the pendulum should be stopped?

Equality, however, that is a vague term.  Let's press on...

> What should men be prepared to give up and what should we refuse to give
> up? 

Lets see... men can expect to give up:

- ability or "right" to rape, especially in marriage (actually, I would like to 
see rape fade from our minds as a concept, but that's somewhat farther off.)

- the easier career world that the glass ceiling makes.

- Once again, we can go on forever, but I think this gives a representative
example.

Men should refuse to give up:

- Any right women claim for themselves.

> Where should the battle lines be drawn? 

Where rights are not equal.

> What about doing dishes or 
> laundry or housework? Should we refuse to do these traditional women's 
> tasks at all cost? 

Given that my wife and I both do those tasks (and no, I do *NOT* "help around
the house""), I don't see your point in bringing these up.

> And what do you see as the downside potential? What
> if we men lose? What rights are we most likely to lose first? 

Judging from the writers I cite above, the vote.

> Will our young boys become pansies? 

Careful with that gender stereotyping.

> Will all boys be required to take classes in sewing and home economics? 

I fail to see how this is classified as "loss", unless all girls are not
similarly required.

> Will we have to wear dresses and high heels?

I know lots of men who are fighting their asses off to be allowed to do exactly
this.
-- 
Daniel B. Holzman                    | Eight Words the Witch's Rede Fufill:
HOLZMAN@FNAL.BITNET                  | An It Harm None, Do What You Will
HOLZMAN@FNALC.FNAL.GOV.INTERNET      |
                                     | All Acts of Love and Pleasure are
Love doesn't subtract,               | Her Rituals
   it multiplies    - Heinlein       |
TEAM STAR Charter Member             | Speak the Word.
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