HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: mwfolsom@hydra.unm.edu (Mike Folsom)
Subject: Re: G&M Report on Business article
Date: Sat, 22 Aug 92 22:57:32 GMT
Organization: University of New Mexico, Albuquerque
Distribution: can

In article <92Aug21.220809edt.48008@neat.cs.toronto.edu> tlai@cs.toronto.edu (Tony Wen Hsun Lai) writes:
>The September 1992 issue of the Globe and Mail's Report on Business
>Magazine had an article called "Research & NonDevelopment" written by
>David Olive, the editor.  To quote part of the article without permission:
>
>    Canada lacks for R&D prowess in part because it lacks for qualified
>    R&D practitioners.  R&D recruiters voice a chronic complaint:  They
>    cannot find a sufficient number of scientists and engineers in Canada,
>    and must farm out much of their research to offshore positions.
>    University enrolment in many scientific disciplines has not increased
>    during the past decade as a proportion of the total population, and in
>    key areas such as chemical and electrical engineering, enrolment has
>    dropped.  The remedy here is a greater role for government in
>    encouraging scientific studies.
>
>Does anyone here believe claims of such a shortage?  Anyway, letters can be
>sent to Report on Business Magazine, The Globe and Mail, 444 Front St. W.,
>Toronto, Ontario M5V 2S9.  Authors must include a daytime phone number.
>
>Tony Lai
>tlai@neat.cs.utoronto.ca


Looks like more NON-reality to me.  

When I was in Canada doing my PhD several years ago NSERC (national 
science and engineering research council) had to create a special 
program for PhD's who were looking for jobs.  They would pay a
scientist's salary plus a small amount of research support if the 
Univ. would treat the individual like they were faculty.  The deal
was good for the Univ. because the individual could teach and
NSERC could justify it to the powers that be because it  
would keep another Canadian scientist alive till they could 
find a "real" job.  Now, that not a program that would be 
created if there was a shortage of scientists.   

Strikes me that there could be two reasons for this claim.  1st its an 
easy way for industry to "beg-off" on doing research in Canada.  There
has always been a push on multinational companies to do some of 
there research in Canada and by making this claim they avoid 
comming up with the real answer - i.e. that they just don't want to!
Alternately, it could be more nonsense like the stuff pushed here
by the NSF - the comming faculty/scientist shortage that always 
5 or so years down the road.

Later -

Michael

Newsgroups: sci.research.careers
From: adrian@yoyo.cc.monash.edu.au (Adrian Gentle)
Subject: Re: which universities?
Organization: Monash University General Access Unix
X-Newsreader: Tin 1.1 PL5
Date: Tue, 18 Aug 1992 01:00:46 GMT

	I'm also interested in which universities are strong in
theoretical physics, mathematics and cosmology, so how about people 
leave replies here also, so that we can all benifit... 
	
	-------------------------------------------------------
	Adrian P Gentle         |    "If you can't dazzle 'em 
	Monash University,      |    with brilliance, blind	
	Australia.	        |    'em with bull..." 
 	-------------------------------------------------------
From: laws@ai.sri.com (Kenneth I. Laws)
Newsgroups: sci.research.careers
Subject: Re: NSF Focus
Date: 13 Aug 92 03:56:18 GMT
Organization: Computists International
In-reply-to: kasab@luther.che.wisc.edu's message of 11 Aug 92 09:06:37 GMT

> From John Kasab:
> On the other hand, my understanding of the
> NSF's mission is that it is supposed to be the patron who supports "less
> practical" projects--the type that you claim universities and other patrons
> should support.

Good point, but the phrase "supposed to" is ambiguous.  NSF's original
High Frontier mission is still on the books, but the reality is that
NSF's mission is realigned every funding cycle.  Congress currently
seems very eager to have NSF fund applied research.  Even the High
Frontier argument was based on the belief that basic research would
have unpredictable benefits for the nation.

Supporting your view, though, is NSF's long-standing interest in
funding high-risk/high-payoff research.  One of the training
sessions for program directors makes a point of this mission.
Note the high-payoff part.  Most proposers think of high
payoff in terms of numerous prestigious publications and
secure continuing funding.  That isn't what Congress has
in mind, but you can sometimes get NSF to see it that way.

Another characteristic of NSF is that it likes to bet on all
horses in the race.  This varies with the program director,
but there's an urge to make sure that any scientific breakthrough
will have had NSF funding.  Losers don't matter -- no one keeps
track, and they're quickly forgotten.  The resulting funding
pattern makes it seem that NSF is interested in "leading-edge
theoretical research" -- in the sense of exploratory research
in areas with little experimental support or commercial importance
-- but a cynical view is that NSF is just covering its political
assets.

I think the question of theoretical orientation is a red
herring.  The factors that influence grant recommendations
have little to do with theory vs. applications.  They have
more to do with "Given this proposal and its reviews, how
hard would it be to justify a declination?"  The quality
of the reviews is a separate matter, best addressed by
suggesting a dozen or so reviewers when you submit the
proposal.

As for the comment that NSF is a lab management agency
rather than a lab theory agency (or one running its own
labs), I'm not sure that I understand.  It's true -- if
you consider sending money to be "management" -- but doesn't
address the complaint of theoreticians who think they keep
getting turned down because "NSF doesn't like theory."

					-- Ken
--

Dr. Kenneth I. Laws, (415) 493-7390, laws@ai.sri.com.
Moderator of the Computists International AI/IS/CS mutual-aid association.
Ask about my weekly online career newsletter, The Computists' Communique.
From: goedde@ellipse.mps.ohio-state.edu (Chris Goedde)
Newsgroups: sci.research.careers
Subject: Re: NSF Focus
Date: 13 Aug 1992 11:30:46 -0400
Organization: Department of Mathematics, The Ohio State University
NNTP-Posting-Host: ellipse.mps.ohio-state.edu

For those interested in this, there is an interesting interview
(titled 'Leaner times, meaner times for science') with Walter Massey,
the head of the NSF, in the August '92 Physics Today.

Chris Goedde
goedde@shape.mps.ohio-state.edu
From: laws@ai.sri.com (Kenneth I. Laws)
Newsgroups: sci.research.careers
Subject: Re: NSF Focus
Date: 15 Aug 92 20:18:50 GMT
	<LAWS.92Aug12205618@sunset.ai.sri.com>
Organization: Computists International
In-reply-to: laws@ai.sri.com's message of 13 Aug 92 03:56:18 GMT

> From: Ken Laws
> As for the comment that NSF is a lab management agency
> rather than a lab theory agency (or one running its own
> labs), I'm not sure that I understand.

I may owe John Kasab an apology.  I think I see now what
his point was, and perhaps also what Eugene Miya was
saying.  "Working for NSF" would mean being a program
director rather than a scientist with a grant.  NSF does
not hire people to do research in-house, except for a
few statistical studies.  NSF encourages program directors
to continue their research and publication, but the truth
is that there's no time for research -- at least in IRIS.
So John is right: you'd have a much better chance of doing
research at NIST than at NSF.

					-- Ken
--

Dr. Kenneth I. Laws, (415) 493-7390, laws@ai.sri.com.
Moderator of the Computists International AI/IS/CS mutual-aid association.
Ask about my weekly online career newsletter, The Computists' Communique.
From: zhou@info.osaka-cu.ac.jp (Mingyong Zhou)
Newsgroups: sci.research.careers
Subject: job wanted
Date: 21 Aug 92 07:31:45 GMT
Distribution: sci
Organization: Faculty of Engineering, Osaka City Univ., Japan

I am expected to earn Ph.D. in electrical engineering next year. (major:
signal processing).I hope to seek a faculty job in universities in an
English-speaking country. Could anyone inform me any opportunities?
--
Mingyong ZHOU
Tel: 06-605-2773,
Fax: 06-605-2967,
E-mail: zhou@info.osaka-cu.ac.jp
Newsgroups: sci.research.careers
From: tlai@cs.toronto.edu (Tony Wen Hsun Lai)
Subject: G&M Report on Business article
Organization: Department of Computer Science, University of Toronto
Distribution: can
Date: 22 Aug 92 02:08:16 GMT

The September 1992 issue of the Globe and Mail's Report on Business
Magazine had an article called "Research & NonDevelopment" written by
David Olive, the editor.  To quote part of the article without permission:

    Canada lacks for R&D prowess in part because it lacks for qualified
    R&D practitioners.  R&D recruiters voice a chronic complaint:  They
    cannot find a sufficient number of scientists and engineers in Canada,
    and must farm out much of their research to offshore positions.
    University enrolment in many scientific disciplines has not increased
    during the past decade as a proportion of the total population, and in
    key areas such as chemical and electrical engineering, enrolment has
    dropped.  The remedy here is a greater role for government in
    encouraging scientific studies.

Does anyone here believe claims of such a shortage?  Anyway, letters can be
sent to Report on Business Magazine, The Globe and Mail, 444 Front St. W.,
Toronto, Ontario M5V 2S9.  Authors must include a daytime phone number.

Tony Lai
tlai@neat.cs.utoronto.ca
Newsgroups: sci.research.careers
From: mes10@po.CWRU.Edu (Mark E. Smith)
Subject: Re: Where to Look for Jobs
Reply-To: mes10@po.CWRU.Edu (Mark E. Smith)
Organization: Case Western Reserve University, Cleveland, OH (USA)
Date: Tue, 18 Aug 92 08:28:54 GMT


In a previous article, nps1@ukc.ac.uk (N.P.Smart) says:

>On the same topic where can you find job advertisements for
>adademic/research posts in the USA.
>I am only interrested in Pure Mathemmatics so please do not email
>me any idea on places for Applied Sciences etc.
>
>Thanks 
>Nigel
>

My suggestion is to try the American Mathematical Society.  They reportedly
publish a report 7 times per year of job listings. ( for an additional fee!)

~Smith
Newsgroups: sci.research.careers
From: josh@cqs.washington.edu (Josh Hayes)
Subject: The Chronicle of Higher Ed. (was: Re: Where to look for jobs...???
Organization: University of Washington
Date: Wed, 19 Aug 1992 18:02:34 GMT

A.J.C.Blyth@newcastle.ac.uk (Andrew J C Blyth) mutters:

>...how do you get hold of
>"The Chronicle of Higher Education". So if some kind sole could
>mail me telling me how, then I would be most greatful.

I am NOT a fish. I just look like one. But I'll still tell you what
I know about it.

Here is what it says in VERY small print on page A4 of my latest issue:

"The Chronicle of Higher Education (ISSN 0009-5982) is published weekly
except the third week in August and the last two weeks in December, at
1225 Twenty-Third Street N.W., Washington, DC 20037 [USA]. Subscription
rate: $67.50 per year. Second-class postage paid at Washington, D.C., 
and at additional mailing offices [perhaps there's one in UK?].

[copyright info deleted]

Postmaster: Send address changes to The Chronicle of Higher Education,
P.O. Box 1955, Marion OH, 43305 [USA]."

So, you might write either to the office directly, or to the address-
change location, for information about European subscribers. Note, the
jobs advertised in the Chronicle are virtually NEVER in Europe. A fair
number are in Australia, and Asia and the South Pacific; the overwhelming
majority are in the U.S. Some are in the Middle East and Africa.

Hope this helps.

Josh Hayes

--
Josh Hayes, Quantitative Sciences HR-20 U of Washington
josh@mowgli.cqs.washington.edu             206 685-2793
Exclaimer: Hey!           Plan: Birth School Work Death
Newsgroups: sci.research.careers
From: karr@cs.cornell.edu (David Karr)
Subject: Re: Second Undergraduate Degree, or transitional master's
Organization: Cornell Univ. CS Dept, Ithaca NY 14853
Date: Fri, 21 Aug 1992 00:42:26 GMT

In article <BtAwJ9.Bpp@cgl.ucsf.edu> gough@cgl.ucsf.edu (Craig gough%Kollman) writes:
>My background is in chemistry, and I wish to proceed 
>in the areas of math/physics/computer science/electrical engineering.  
>I would say my strongest interest is in new algorithms for 
>simulation of scientific problems.   

Graduate school admissions may be a little tough right now because of 
the recession, but my impression is that computer science departments
at least are willing to take people from other fields if they have
some computer knowledge.  You sound like someone who would fit this
bill.  Another possibility that comes to mind is you might find a
place where you can be admitted as a chemistry student but really
do your work on computer simulations.  Of course the other fields
you suggested offer plenty of opportunity for that.  Another idea
is to look for a place that has a program specifically geared toward
scientific computation where they take people from many fields.
For example, Cornell has an interdisciplinary program through the
Center for Applied Mathematics.

You might also try flipping through the Peterson's Guide to
Graduate Programs in Engineering and Applied Sciences.
For example, I just took a quick peek and found a program
in computational chemistry at the University of Arizona (under
Cross-Discipline Announcements at the end of Computer and
Information Sciences).  If you spend a few hours poring over
the book you might find some even better listings, who knows?
(Incidentally, you might consider purchasing such a book so you
can take it home and study it at your leisure.  Anyway, that's
what I did before applying to graduate school.)

-- David Karr (karr@cs.cornell.edu)
From: A.J.C.Blyth@newcastle.ac.uk (A.J.C. Blyth)
Newsgroups: sci.research.careers
Subject: Where to Look for Jobs
Keywords: jobs
Date: 5 Aug 92 08:12:55 GMT
Organization: Computing Laboratory, U of Newcastle upon Tyne, UK NE17RU

As my Ph.D. nears completion I am starting to look for a job abroad.
So I am reading Communications of the ACM and the IEEE computer. My
question is that does any one else know of any journals that advertise
jobs.

If people mail me then I will compile a list and post it back to the
Net.

Regards

Andrew.
From: nps1@ukc.ac.uk (N.P.Smart)
Newsgroups: sci.research.careers
Subject: Re: Where to Look for Jobs
Date: 13 Aug 92 10:13:48 GMT
Organization: Computing Lab, University of Kent at Canterbury, UK.

On the same topic where can you find job advertisements for
adademic/research posts in the USA.
I am only interrested in Pure Mathemmatics so please do not email
me any idea on places for Applied Sciences etc.

Thanks 
Nigel
Newsgroups: sci.research.careers
From: kpc@pluto.arc.nasa.gov (k p c)
Subject: academic employment market for different fields
Reply-To: kpc@ptolemy.arc.nasa.gov
Organization: NASA Ames Research Center AI Research Branch (Sterling).
Date: Sat, 22 Aug 1992 01:33:40 GMT

where is a good place to find out about the academic employment market
for different fields?
--
i'm open to comparing research career notes with other young cogsci people.
From: jstravis@bass.bu.edu (John Travis)
Newsgroups: sci.research.careers
Subject: postdoc article
Date: 18 Aug 92 13:10:52 GMT
Reply-To: jstravis@bass.bu.edu (John Travis)
Organization: Boston University

a while back, i asked to hear from postdocs about their life for
an upcoming article I was doing for a special careers issue in
Science magazine. the response was enormous and i want to thank
everyone for their help, even those i ran out of time to get back
in touch with. my apologies to them. and for those who are interested
the article and Careers section will be in the Sept 18 issue, i believe.
comments are always appreciated.

john travis
Science (NE bureau)
jstravis@bu-pub.bu.edu
Newsgroups: sci.research.careers
From: glosson@convex.com (Allen Glosson)
Subject: Re: H.R. 4418 bill for IRS taxes
Date: Fri, 14 Aug 1992 12:46:30 GMT
Organization: Engineering, CONVEX Computer Corp., Richardson, Tx., USA
X-Disclaimer: This message was written by a user at CONVEX Computer
              Corp. The opinions expressed are those of the user and
              not necessarily those of CONVEX.

In <1992Aug13.170330.12651@msuinfo.cl.msu.edu> sotoc@frith.egr.msu.edu (Ciro Soto) writes:

>Does anybody know if the HR4418 bill was approved ?
>If so, are the Research Assistants  included in this bill ?,
>or only those who have scholarship and fellowship.

>Thanks

I recently talked with an aid in my congressman's office.  The bill is
proposed to exempt graduate student compensation from federal taxation.
Compensation is defined as a fellowship, a scholarship, or a stipend.  The
last item is important as that is not currently covered by the IRS taxation
rules.  Furthermore, the bill would make the exemption retroaction to
1987.  

Unfortunately, the bill was just introduced in March 1992, and since the
average piece of legislation, unless it is on the 'fast track', takes 
from 2-3 years to be approved, don't expect to collect any time soon.

The bill is currently in committee.  I would suggest contacting your
congressperson to find out what they know about this legislation and what
his/her position is.  I don't know which committee it is in, so I don't
know who sits on that committee.  Again, contact your congressperson and
let them know what your opinion is.

Allen
Newsgroups: sci.research.careers
From: solman@athena.mit.edu (Jason W Solinsky)
Subject: Re: Conferences vs Journals
Organization: Massachusetts Institute of Technology
Date: Tue, 18 Aug 1992 00:18:18 GMT

In article <geoff.714060112@marsh>, geoff@marsh.cs.curtin.edu.au (Geoff West) writes:
|> I just caught the discussion on journal vs conference papers. I wonder if the 
|> whole process of publishing papers is now out of control. It seems you have to
|> do incremental research i.e. take someone's idea, extend it, publish the result.
|> This is necessary to get brownie points. I feel I am dragged into this attitude
|> by the need to publish for my career.

I'd certainly be interested in examples. TO be sure, brownie points are
important, but I'd be VERY surprised to hear of a CS or EE paper whose
creativity was overlooked because it didn't site the right people. The
likelyhood is that the majority of referees won't have any stake in ensuring
that you work within ceratin bounds. The likelyhood is also that the referees
will point out somebody who has done something similar to what you are doing.
This is nothing bad. It merely points out the incredible rate at which EECS
fields are expanding and the impossibility of anybody covering all bases.

|> I wonder if the publishing process is about to become somewhat obsolete by the
|> explosion in email, news and postscript papers available via ftp. Perhaps your
|> success as a researcher is then measured by how many people access your papers!

Success IS measured by how many people access your papers. All researchers
have a limited amount of time. They are only going to look through certain
journals and certain conference proceedings if your paper isn't in these, it
doesn't exist.

I, for one, read about 15 IEEE and ACM transactions. I will scan all the
titles, read the abstracts of 5% of those, scan the papers of 15% of those
and give 25% of those a hardlook. If I or any other researcher who works
like this didn't atleast read the abstract, then that paper doesn't exist.
If your paper is on the net or in a second rate journal, then the only way
most people will find out about it is if one of the much smaller number of
people who scan the paper is so impressed with it that they tell many other
people about it. The vast majority of ideas of this quality will be accepted
to one of the upper echelon journals and appear in citations in those
journals anyway.

Jason W. Solinsky
From: laws@ai.sri.com (Kenneth I. Laws)
Newsgroups: sci.research.careers
Subject: Re: Where to Look for Jobs
Date: 13 Aug 92 04:21:44 GMT
Organization: Computists International
In-reply-to: A.J.C.Blyth@newcastle.ac.uk's message of 5 Aug 92 08:12:55 GMT

> From: A.J.C. Blyth:
> ... does any one else know of any journals that advertise jobs.

Well, ahem, I distribute AI-related job leads every week -- about
a dozen or so.  The majority are culled from misc.jobs.offered, but
I've picked up a few interesting items from comp.ai, NL-KR,
connectionists, Spectrum, Computerworld, NSF Bulletin, Computing
Research News, and many other sources.  Also a few called in
by members of Computists International, or by people who've heard
of the Computists' Communique.

					-- Ken
--

Dr. Kenneth I. Laws, (415) 493-7390, laws@ai.sri.com.
Moderator of the Computists International AI/IS/CS mutual-aid association.
Ask about my weekly online career newsletter, The Computists' Communique.
Newsgroups: sci.research.careers
From: rrempel@selkirk.sfu.ca (Rodney Dwight Rempel)
Subject: Re: Second Undergraduate Degree, or transitional master's
Organization: Simon Fraser University, Burnaby, B.C., Canada
Date: Thu, 20 Aug 1992 22:29:33 GMT

gough@cgl.ucsf.edu (Craig gough%Kollman) writes:

>I've posted this in a couple of other newsgroups and 
>received some useful replies, but I could still use some more 
>advice: 
> 
>Can anyone offer some advice on obtaining a second baccalaureate 
>degree in a different field?  It seems that there are very few 
>universities thadmit students for a second degree in a different 
>field, and very few that offer a "transitional" master's degree 
>program.  (The latter would actually be preferable).   
>My background is in chemistry, and I wish to proceed 
>in the areas of math/physics/computer science/electrical engineering.  
>I would say my strongest interest is in new algorithms for 
>simulation of scientific problems.   

From what I've seen, a second B.Sc. is about as much good as a third
foot: an interesting curiosity, but won't really get you anywhere
faster. I would suggest talking to faculty in  math/physics/...
and seeing if you can find a faculty member with the same interests.
I don't know about elsewhere, but around here the department has fair
lee-way about admission requirements (you have to have a B.Sc, but 
they don't specifically say in what) so if the advisor wants you as
a grad student you are pretty much "in".

Good Luck. Spend the time finding a competent advisor/supervisor, not
taking more undergrad courses.

Rod Rempel - rrempel@sfu.ca
Department of Kinesiology, Simon Fraser University 
... if two million people do a stupid thing it's still a stupid thing.

Newsgroups: sci.research.careers