HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: niall@c3.PLA.CA.US (Neal Bedard)
Newsgroups: ba.motorcycles
Subject: Re: IS IT POSSIBLE??
Date: 17 Nov 92 04:24:55 GMT
Organization: Cathode Ray Mission, San Jose

In article <789@wookie.dbaccess.com> cjones@dbaccess.com (Carl Jones) writes:
>However, as a motorcycle rider, too, I must say that I really dislike
>other cyclists "splitting the lane".  I dont care if it is "legal".
>I think it is dangerous, "unfair", and inflamatory.  [...]
>
>I would vote FOR prohibiting such action. (this has been irritating me for
>some time; this finally seemed like the time to say it)

Carl, the practice of lane-splitting is accepted in dense population centers
world-wide as a way of easing traffic congestion. It is tolerated in most CA
locales (Marin County being a notable exception, but we all know that they're
a bunch of bike-hating nazis up there...) for the same reason.

By and large cage-bound commuters here are accepting of lane-splitters (you'd
be surprised how often they move over for you) because they do realize that it
does help traffic congestion (or they think you might be a cop...) and they're
used to seeing it. I'm a firm believer in it, and fortuately, so is the CHP.

As to your contention that it's dangerous, the evidence (Hurt report) doesn't
support it. In fact, it's a good way to save your time and energy (stop-n-go
on a bike is _VERY_ tiring) and to avoid the most common freeway accident: the
rear-ender. It also keeps your motor from melting down if you ride an air-
cooled bike (or your radiator boiling over if it's water-cooled.) On balance,
it is a Good Thing.

Carl, I get the feeling that you haven't been riding for very long because you
seem to be stuck in cage-think. The problem is, riding a motorcycle in traffic
requires thinking that you're possibly not used to (yet), and you're falling
back on cage-bound ways. This is a mistake: you will get yourself into trouble
even if you don't lane-split. The avoidance and preparedness skills you develop
with saddle time not only will keep you healthy in "normal" situations, but
they'll take the scare out of lane-splitting too. It's a given that lane-
splitting isn't for rookie riders (just as it would be unwise for a new driver
to, say, tackle San Francisco on their first try at the wheel), but that's no
reason to condemn the practice on behalf of _all_ riders.

_Motorcyclist_ did a piece on lane-splitting a few months ago; I suggest you
look it over. Then, when you feel up to it, you might try it yourself (don't
do it in Marin though!) I bet you'll change your mind.

Ride safe,



-Neal
[niall@c3.com]
DoD #0x451
From: spencer@hailwood.asd.sgi.com (Paul Spencer)
Newsgroups: ba.motorcycles
Subject: Re: pleasant weekend rides
Date: 16 Nov 92 20:11:25 GMT
Organization: Silicon Graphics, Inc., Mountain View, CA
NNTP-Posting-Host: hailwood.asd.sgi.com

cjackson@adobe.com (Curtis Jackson) says:
> 
> I've only been on the Alpine portion coming down towards 280, but it was
> far too bumpy to be enjoyable for my taste.

Slow down, enjoy the view :-) 

> What are conditions like on the old San Jose-Santa Cruz Road that sort
> of parallels 17?

The road starts in Soquel as Soquel-San Jose road, which ends at Summit
Road (same road as Skyline, the name changes in Santa Cruz County). The
`old San Jose road' goes north from Summit; all paved, but I haven't been
on it, conditions unknown.

If you go south from there down Summit, it turns into Highland Road.
This one got _serious_ earthquake damage, and is a rutted single-lane
dirt road in sections; I'd avoid it on anything less than an enduro bike.

> I would strongly suggest that a beginner take freeways to Livermore and
> do this ride the other direction -- towards San Jose. This puts you on
> the mountain side of the ride the whole time rather than the cliff side.

Whichever way is fine; it's easier to find the road from San Jose (the
Alum Rock exit from 680) than it is from Livermore.

Anybody interested in biking in the area should buy a decent set of maps;
there's a book of good ones available for $12.95 (14"x17", green cover,
covers all of California north of Santa Cruz). These show ALL of the
roads, unlike most gas-station style maps.

....paul

-- 
Paul Spencer                 Silicon Graphics Advanced Graphics Division
spencer@sgi.com                                Mountain View, California
From: mspencer@apple.com (Mark Spencer)
Newsgroups: ba.motorcycles
Subject: Re: pleasant weekend rides
Date: 18 Nov 92 18:16:18 GMT
Organization: Apple Computer, Inc.
X-UserAgent: Nuntius v1.1.1d11
X-XXDate: Wed, 18 Nov 92 10:21:44 GMT

In article <s9ei5f4@zola.esd.sgi.com> C J Silverio, cj@eno.esd.sgi.com
writes:
>Besides Skyline, where do you all ride on weekends?  Where

At the suggestion of a few fellow riders I met the first time I did the
Sunday Morning Ride a few weeks ago, this past weekend I extended the
Ride by leaving Point Reyes Station and heading up Rt. 1 north to
Stewart's Point, where I gassed up and hung a right onto what has to be
the greatest 42 mile stretch of road I've yet to see. It's called
Stewart's Point rd (I'm pretty sure) and it basically runs directly east
from Rt. 1 to 101 (Healdsburg). The last 1/3rd of it curves around the
south end of Sonoma lake, and has a posted 30 MPH limit, which I wouldn't
worry about, as I didn't see a single car the whole time. Wide, clean
road, correctly cambered; no decreasing radius turns; smooth sweepers,
open throttle the whole way...really an amazing road, and well worth the
69 mile drone back down 101 to SF (unless you have the time to go back
the same way :-)).
From: johng@informix.com (John Galloway)
Newsgroups: ba.motorcycles
Subject: Re: Can I beat this ticket?
Date: 13 Nov 92 23:43:30 GMT
Distribution: ba
Organization: Informix Software, Inc.

In article <74238@apple.apple.COM> thompson@Apple.COM (Paul Thompson) writes:
>delorme@garnet.berkeley.edu (Lisa DeLorme) writes:
>
>>What makes me think I can beat it?
>>I think I remember reading in "fight your ticket" that any errors in the
>>ticket are cause for dismissal. My case has three errors: 1) On the ticket
>>he wrote that my bike was black, it is blue to blue-green metallic.    
>
>I've seen people try to get off on such technicalities, and fail.  For
>instance, one guy complained that his blue ford truck was listed as a
>green chevy.  The judge was not impressed.  Even worse, I've seen the
>prosecution fail to prove every element of the case, and when the defendent
>pointed this out, the judge just asked the cop for the information he
>needed for a conviction.  "Fight Your Ticket" is hopelessly optimistic -
>from what I've seen the courts don't like Joe Average defending himself.
>
>I think your chances of fighting this in court are pretty slim.  A
>lawyer might be able to get you off, but his/her fee's would certainly
>outweigh the gains.
Agreed, however you alwyas have the shot that the officer won't show
up (and won't have called ahead to say he can't make it, which allows
for a postponment).  I just beat a ticket this way. Had the officer
been there I likely would have gone ahead with my "defense", but not
pressed the point.  I have been in traffic court twice, and never
seen anyone get off due to such things.  Of course just going to court takes
a lot of time (about half a day).
	-jrg
internet    jrg@galloway.sj.ca.us  John R. Galloway, Jr  795 Beaver Creek Way
applelink   D3413                  CEO...receptionist    San Jose, CA   95133
                                   Galloway Research     (408) 259-2490
>-- 
>Paul Thompson    Apple Computer    DoD #47    Would you remember a 1-line .sig?


-- 
internet    jrg@galloway.sj.ca.us  John R. Galloway, Jr  795 Beaver Creek Way
applelink   D3413                  CEO...receptionist    San Jose, CA   95133
                                   Galloway Research     (408) 259-2490
From: tcox@netcom.com (Thomas Cox)
Newsgroups: ba.motorcycles
Subject: Lane Splitting: Laws and Ethics
Date: 16 Nov 92 22:18:03 GMT
Followup-To: poster
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services (408 241-9760 guest)

In article <789@wookie.dbaccess.com> cjones@dbaccess.com (Carl Jones) writes:
 [...]
>However, as a motorcycle rider, too, I must say that I really dislike
>other cyclists "splitting the lane".  I dont care if it is "legal".
>I think it is dangerous, "unfair", and inflamatory.  

	You are welcome to feel this way.  Or any other way you care to
	feel.  Bikers might just as well be annoyed at the "unfair" way
	cars refuse to fall over when you park them without kickstands.

>70-90% of those
>that I see who split the lane do it in what I believe automobile
>drivers think is a "hot shot" fashion.  

	Ah.  That's something else -- not what you do but how you do it.
	Permit me to remind you of the old legal maxim, whose Latin is
	something like "Abusus Non Tollit Usum", which means "Abuse is
	Not an Argument Against [Proper] Use."

	The misuse of a bike's features, and the breaking of laws, does
	not constitute a good reason to outlaw some act that, when done
	in a responsible fashion, is harmless.  

	Lane splitting, when done within the limits of other laws (such
	as reckless driving), is certainly harmless.

>And like it or not, it makes
>enough of them hostile to motorcyclists that it puts ME (and YOU) in danger
>when I ride.  I would vote FOR prohibiting such action.

	Which action?  Cager hostility?  Will you also outlaw neon
	colored clothing, because I feel like killing the people who
	wear them?  Will you outlaw other harmless actions on the basis
	that someone might not like it?  And if not, then what *are* you
	saying? 

>(this has been irritating me for some time; this finally seemed like
>the time to say it)

>Carl Jones                        INTERNET: cjones@dbaccess.com

	We now return to your regularly scheduled flames.
-- 
Thomas Cox      DoD #1776   '91 CB 750 Nighthawk   tcox@netcom.com

After December 1, 1992:  Triad Technology Group, 503-293-9547
From: starfish@ucscb.UCSC.EDU (Smarter than the Average Blur)
Newsgroups: ba.motorcycles
Subject: FORSALE: 1985 Honda Elite 150 Deluxe (RED) $1100/obo
Date: 19 Nov 1992 03:07:40 GMT
Organization: University of California; Santa Cruz
NNTP-Posting-Host: ucscb.ucsc.edu


*Perfect mecachanical condition.
*Very good cosmetic condition.
*Brand new tires.
*Oil changed with Golden Specro.
*New battery.
*Bright red.
*7600 original miles.

Call Alan at (408) 429-8416.
From: spencer@hailwood.asd.sgi.com (Paul Spencer)
Newsgroups: ba.motorcycles
Subject: Re: lane splitting when there is only one lane
Date: 17 Nov 92 23:53:27 GMT
Distribution: ba
Organization: Silicon Graphics, Inc., Mountain View, CA
NNTP-Posting-Host: hailwood.asd.sgi.com

johng@informix.com (John Galloway) says:
> When there is only one lane (in each direction) riding to the right
> would be "driving on the sholder" and riding on the left would
> be "driving in the median", right?

Well, no. Get ready, it's Ascii Graphics time (tm) !

                                    /-------\
shoulder   oncoming traffic        O===car===O      shoulder
........|____________________||____________________|........
                             ^^ ^^              ^^   ^^
			     1  2               3    4

Riding at point `1' would be "driving in the median". You can
tell when you're doing this because of those damned dots they
put there.

Riding at point `2' would be "lane sharing", and should be legal.
Ditto for point `3'. Remember, you shouldn't call it `lane splitting',
which has all of those nasty negative connotations. Call it `lane
sharing'. Sounds much more friendly, doesn't it?

Riding at point `4' would be "driving on the shoulder". The distinction
between #3 and #4 is which side of the painted line you're riding on.

....paul

-- 
Paul Spencer                 Silicon Graphics Advanced Graphics Division
spencer@sgi.com                                Mountain View, California
From: dcook@garnet.berkeley.edu (Dan Cook)
Newsgroups: ba.motorcycles
Subject: Re: IS IT POSSIBLE??
Date: 16 Nov 92 22:08:31 GMT
Organization: University of California, Berkeley
NNTP-Posting-Host: garnet.berkeley.edu

In article <1992Nov16.203357.25770@eos.arc.nasa.gov> phil@eos.arc.nasa.gov (Phil Stone) writes:
>   
>3) It's inflammatory.  Only to fuckheads; pardon my language if it
>   offends you, but anybody angered by someone else's ability to get
>   through traffic is exactly that.  Actually, I've found that more
>   and more drivers are accepting and accomodating of lane sharing;
>   I will not feel bad for those jerks that are somehow offended by it.
>


I agree with the last sentence above... I wasn't sure and am still not
sure, but it seems to me recently that more and more cars are aware of
motorcyclists in stop and go traffic, and are moving over to give me
some room... I've noticed this habit in LA to some extent, since I've
heard that no cop in his right mind is going to give a bike a ticket
for lane splitting on the freeway system in Los Angeles... Is it just
me, (i.e. have I been lucky) or have other people noticed this?

-uncle dan
srx-6 kz1000
From: atl@kpc.com (Drew Lynch)
Newsgroups: ba.motorcycles
Subject: Re: Insurance recommendation
Date: 20 Nov 92 21:15:02 GMT
Distribution: ba
Organization: Kubota Pacific Computer


|> what I did.  I think State Farm bases it's motorcycle insurance
|> on displacement.

Partially. My 1983 GS1100ES, $50 comp and coll deductable costs me $200/yr.
I'm 31, no points (knock on wood)

	Drew

-- 
+------------------------------+ Andrew Lynch, atl@kpc.com
| Congratulations, Bill and Al | Kubota Pacific Computer Inc. Santa Clara, Ca.
| Now, don't screw it up!      | (408)748-6345
+------------------------------+ Disclaimer: This is me, not them.
From: cjackson@adobe.com (Curtis Jackson)
Newsgroups: ba.motorcycles
Subject: Re: lane splitting when there is only one lane
Date: 18 Nov 92 01:17:19 GMT
Distribution: ba
Organization: Adobe Systems Incorporated, Mountain View

In article <1992Nov17.173307.11430@informix.com> johng@informix.com (John Galloway) writes:
}When there is only one lane (in each direction) riding to the right
}would be "driving on the sholder" and riding on the left would
}be "driving in the median", right?  So even at a traffic light (generally
}the only time I split, or at least the most likely) with just a single
}lane (in each direction) are you stuck or will the cops let you get
}away with it in this case?

Lane SHARING, two vehicles in the same lane, is not prohibited by
law. If both you and the other vehicle can fit side-by-side in that
single lane, then you are not doing anything wrong except according
to some shits in the courts of Marin County.

There is, however, a law against changing lanes before having signalled
for 100 feet beforehand. So lane SPLITTING is by definition illegal if
it involves you changing from one lane to another, even for a second to
get around a mirror or some such, and you fail to signal for 100 feet
beforehand. This is what Marin often uses to catch lane splitters and
hang a fine around their neck.

Most cops (outside Marin) don't mind you riding right on the bot dots
if you are reasonable wrt speed and clearance. Some cops don't. Technically
you are breaking the law, and technically you can be cited for it. In
my limited experience, most cops, especially moto cops, take the attitude
"Hey, it's the only way to get around in this damned crowded town."

YMMV.
-- 
Curtis Jackson	  '91 Black Lab "Studley Doright"   '92 Collie/Golden "George"
cjackson@mv.us.adobe.com	USPA #A-10080 (lapsed)	DoD #721 '81 Maxim 650
  "They that can give up an essential liberty to obtain a little temporary
   safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." -- Benjamin Franklin (1759)
From: steve@presto.ig.com (Steve Barnhouse)
Newsgroups: ba.motorcycles
Subject: Re: IS IT POSSIBLE??
Date: 17 Nov 92 21:35:33 GMT
Organization: IntelliGenetics, Inc., Mountain View, California USA

>In article <789@wookie.dbaccess.com> cjones@dbaccess.com (Carl Jones) writes:

>However, as a motorcycle rider, too, I must say that I really dislike
>other cyclists "splitting the lane".  I dont care if it is "legal".
>I think it is dangerous, "unfair", and inflamatory.  70-90% of those
>that I see who split the lane do it in what I believe automobile
>drivers think is a "hot shot" fashion.  And like it or not, it makes
>enough of them hostile to motorcyclists that it puts ME (and YOU) in danger
>when I ride.  I would vote FOR prohibiting such action.
>(this has been irritating me for some time; this finally seemed like
>the time to say it)

Hostility is not usually rational.  If cagers are hostile towards
motorcyclists because of a perceived action, and you pass legislation
to prohibit that action, then hostile cagers will simply find
another excuse to rationalize their hostility.

Maybe you could try lane-splitting yourself in a non-hotshot way.
Start by lane-splitting at redlights during rush-hour.  When all the
cars are stopped, you'll find it pretty easy to move between them at
about a walking speed.  You will see for yourself that this is safe
and does not threaten cagers because of the slow speed.  Gradually,
you'll get used to the concept, and then you'll be able to use it to
your benefit and safety in all your riding.

Extreme "hot-shot" riding can be both dangerous and hostile;
lane-splitting is not dangerous nor is it hostile.  You don't have to
be lane-splitting to be dangerous, and you don't have to be dangerous
when you're lane-splitting.

--steve                                          steve@presto.ig.com
Xref: sparky ba.motorcycles:849 rec.motorcycles:39301 ucb.wanted:87 su.market:1285 misc.forsale:31193 ba.market.misc:8566
From: mvij@ocf.berkeley.edu (Pendragon)
Newsgroups: ba.motorcycles,rec.motorcycles,ucb.wanted,su.market,misc.forsale,ba.market.misc
Subject: Hein Gericke V-Pilot jacket for sale
Date: 16 Nov 1992 03:08:46 GMT
Organization: U.C. Berkeley Open Computing Facility
Distribution: usa
NNTP-Posting-Host: sandstorm.berkeley.edu

Classic motorcycle jacket for sale.  Put on a Shoei lid and you've got
the left-coast uniform :-).

* Size 42 Hein Gericke V-Pilot
* Three months old (w/receipt)
* Black with red accents
* No cuts, scratches, scrapes, or abrasions -- like new
* I paid $300. Mail-order prices are ~$287.85.  Asking $200 obo.

This is a popular, high quality jacket.  It is made of thick leather and comes
with zip-up wrists, a snap-out lining, neck flap to keep out wind,
adjustable waist, and full zip-up vents (front and back).

I'm selling it to trade down to a less-fancy jacket; I don't ride much
while college is in session.

Manish
(510) 649-0987
-- 
                                          /-\o /-()  -- -  --   -
   Manish Vij    ::    '89 EX500          \_/ \\/ )  -- -    --
   mvij@ocf.berkeley.edu                       |/_\  -- -  --   - 
                                                \_/.  .  . . ........
From: robg@Apple.COM (Rob Griffiths)
Newsgroups: ba.motorcycles
Subject: Re: pleasant weekend rides
Date: 17 Nov 92 01:25:52 GMT
Organization: Apple Computer Inc, Cupertino, CA

In article <1e8v9dINNe5n@fido.asd.sgi.com> spencer@hailwood.asd.sgi.com (Paul Spencer) writes:
>
>If you go south from there down Summit, it turns into Highland Road.
>This one got _serious_ earthquake damage, and is a rutted single-lane
>dirt road in sections; I'd avoid it on anything less than an enduro bike.

A riding buddy and I took this one day, from the Watsonville side.  There's
a great sign at the start - "Caution:  Severe Earthquake Damage.  Proceed
at your own risk.  Road may be impassable in spots."  Or something near
that.  It gave us pause (for about 2 seconds), then we said, "Oh well,
worst case, we have to ride the twisties back out!"

Turns out the entire road is in reasonably good condition, save one 200-foot
long stretch.  There are some potholes and ruts, but nothing worse than
Alpine or Black Road.  The one 200-foot section is a one-lane, dirt
temporary section.  It's just wider than a car, with a couple of tire
tracks.  It's also on a curve.  We slowed down, and went over with no
problems at all (oh yea, watch out for about a two-foot drop just before
the dirt.  Kind of fun, but also somewhat unexpected!).

Our "enduro" bikes were a VFR750 and a CBR600.  :-)

-rob.
Only 940 more break-in miles needed on the Goof2!
-- 
Rob Griffiths    "And the future will be better tomorrow" - Dan Quayle
robg@apple.com   PP-ASEL-IA, looking for clouds .... B52s/REM/Erasure!
From: sbrogii@copernicus.Tymnet.COM (Scott Brogley)
Newsgroups: ba.motorcycles
Subject: out with Japanese and American, im mit der Deutch
Summary: for sale
Keywords: for sale susuki yamaha cheep dodge
Date: 24 Nov 92 02:05:49 GMT
Followup-To: sbrogii@Tymnet.Com
Organization: me, myself and friends

From sbrogii Mon Nov 23 17:18:01 1992
To: euro-moto@rigel.dfrf.nasa.gov
Subject: out with Jap, im mit der Deutch
Cc: sbrogii
Content-Length: 785

OK.  Flame me if you will, but, I found a R100GS and and it looks like they are
going to say 'YES' to the loan application.  So now I need to make the down
payment.

ergo go minagery,

For immeadiate sale.  One of 1981 Suzuki GS1100E runs $500 obo.
                      One of 1978 Susuki GS450TX engine siezed $200 obo.
                      One of 1964 Dodge Dart Station Wagon 273V8 runs $400 obo.
		      One of Yamaha RD200 charging problem $84.95 obo.

	obo. means make an offer, quick!

I also have a Honda CX500 custom and a BMW R60/5 basket case but the dealer gets
first dibs.

if interested please contact me <Scott Brogley> in order of preferance:
        internet        sbrogii@Tymnet.Com
        work            408.922.6547 voice mail
        home            510.489.6165 answering machine and/or room mate
From: cjones@dbaccess.com (Carl Jones)
Newsgroups: ba.motorcycles
Subject: Re: IS IT POSSIBLE??
Date: 18 Nov 92 16:33:56 GMT
Organization: Cross Access Corp., Santa Clara, CA
X-Newsreader: Tin 1.1 PL4

Well, I truly enjoyed (most) of the followup postings to my
note about lane splitting.
First, I have been riding for ~20 years, but certainly not as
much as most of you obviously do.
Second, I am glad to hear that most of you feel and have experiences
that drivers by and large accomodate you when lane splitting.
Third, I cannot remember my exact words, but I stand by my concern
of "hotshot fashion" in which I seem to see it done. i.e. not "walking"
the bike past stopped cars, but actually "zooming" between them,
and "weaving" across lanes in and out between cars in moving traffic.
Perhaps I really only see those that offend me, and do not see those
that do not; I will look more carefully.
Thanks to those who refered to statistics that I do not have regarding
safety; I will assume that they are accurate.
And to the person who didn't want to see more legislation, I agree as well.
I guess, like most situations, when I feel that I am "responsible" and
see others who are not (subjective, yes), then it annoys me that I can/will
be affected by the reaction of others to that irresponsibility.  That goes
for other "cagers", bikers, skiers, cyclists, ...
Happy, and safe, riding!
carl
-- 
Carl Jones                        INTERNET: cjones@dbaccess.com
c/o CROSS ACCESS CORPORATION      UUCP: {uunet,sgiblab}!troi!cjones
2900 Gordon Avenue, Suite 100     FAX: (408) 735-0328
Santa Clara, CA 95051             TEL: (408) 735-7545