From: rburns@key.COM (Randy Burns)
Newsgroups: talk.politics.theory,talk.politics.misc,alt.conspiracy
Subject: Re: ** The Birth of NEW-ISRAEL ** ( Re: Death of America xx )
Date: 30 Dec 92 20:16:52 GMT
Organization: Amdahl Corporation, Advanced Systems, Fremont CA

In article <1992Dec30.110333.2305@ccsvax.sfasu.edu>, f_gautjw@ccsvax.sfasu.edu writes:
> In article <29DEC199212460728@utarlg.uta.edu>, b645zaw@utarlg.uta.edu (General Jubilation T.) writes:
> 
> [Text deleted]
> 
> > 
> > And no nation dedicated to military might could long survive the constant 
> > stress and drain (sturm und drang) of unceasing overpreparedness. Nor can 
> > the current futile attempt to become the protector and caretaker (policeman 
> > and socialworker) of =The World=, begin to refuel the effort and sacrifice 
> > needed to <... quietly reverential voice > "SUSTAIN-ECONOMIC-GROWTH." Or
> > in the old times they would say "TO-WORSHIP-MAMMON." Be it War-God or 
> > Money-God, bleeding for idols *is* too much to ask -- a non-motivator.
> > 
I'd have to say that Mr. Tice is fundamentally correct in this statement.
I must admit that IMHO he is fundamentally incorrect in calling for the 
birth of a "New Israel" in America. Personally, I mourn the death of 
America. I'd honestly expect that a "New Israel" would be to America,
as Byzantium was to Ancient Greece-a sad parody of its former self.

The real questions for us to ask now are what was great about America
and what were its weaknesses so that we can preserve its virtues and
minimize those weaknesses when we start afresh again.

IMHO, America was among greatest and most just frontier societies to have
ever existed. Certainly, its face was marred by genocide and slavery,
but even taking these things into account, the role of America played 
acting to vitalize other English speaking cultures and acting as the 
vanguard of the 19th century's industrial and technological was 
exceedingly positive.
 
> I cannot help but feel that the US has become a hollowed out economic
> shell in which anything now goes.  I suspect the government will
> continue to make a few more attempts to fuel the engine with more
> Iraqs, Somalias and Bosnias, but eventually it will sputter to a
> halt as philosphies built on unsound principles always do.  For the
> last several decades we seem to have greatly departed from the
> Constitutional ideals inspired by faith in God and belief in the
> inalienable rights of man to one more akin to that expressed by
> Leonard Lewin in his truer than life novel "Report from Iron Mountain":
> 
> 	The organizing principle of any society is for war.  The
> 	basic authority of a modern state over its people resides
> 	in its war powers.
The other basic principal-the one which is most important in our own
society is that of exploration. IMHO, what made America great was that
relative to the situation in Europe, America's military threats were 
_far_ less. The Anglo-Americans saw themselves as transforming a society
from a relatively sparsely populated area into a center of civilization. Granted, they destroyed or absorbed mainy aboriginal societies in the process, but I'd still venture to guess that the overall level of social control _and_
level of violent death was less than in say the Middle East or Europe. Most importantly, this provided, what was for many decades a central moral principal
that organized American society. The Judeo-Christian ethic thought of this
mostly in terms of expansion of the domain of human habitation(and particularly dense human habitation). Certainly, the genocide of the Indians was immoral-but I would still say that it may have been less immoral than the wars of Hitler, Napolean or the Inquisition or Communist Genocidic pogroms-simply because 
fewer people were killed(although you can also argue that a greater degree of cultural diversity was also destroyed-this was not something that the people 
at the time were fully capable of appreciating because of the intellectual  
schackles of the old Christian theocracy). 

The central question for us to ask is what kind of expansion would now be
the most moral? I think that today, we might want to think more in terms of expansion of the overall biosphere-expanding life to places where little life now exists-the logical conclusion of this is  bringing life to space. The 
rebirth of America will occur when we start to look forward as a people.

Certainly, space migration is not yet practicle. That does not mean that it
cannot become practical within our childrens lifetime. (IMHO space travel is
about at the same point that jet travel was in the 1920's-a few people are
playing with it and the high priests of our society are scared that someone
will once again show them to be the frauds they are). What certainly is 
practical in our lifetimes is the creation of floating ocean platforms 
and cities. The  real answer to the death of America to to leave it for the 
next frontier.
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