HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: snolan@postmaster@hq.af.mil (Scott D Nolan)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: Non fighting royalty
Date: 31 Dec 92 13:10:44 GMT
Reply-To: snolan@marge.hq.af.mil
Organization: 7th Communications Group

In article <1992Dec31.035912.20577@ips.oz.au>, colin@babbage.syd.ips.oz.au (Colin Yuile) writes:
|> Given that having interests other than fighting does not make a
|> a couple less suitable to rule than a fighter, what is so objectionable
|> about giving non fighters a chance to rule?

There is nothing objectionable about non-fighters ruling at all.
Actually, there are some advantages to it; but how do you determine
who will rule without the fighting?

Yes, the gut response is: "A&S competition", but there is an inherent
problem with this... who determines who the winner of competitions are?
Judges.  In fighting (and, unfortuneatly, only in fighting), the
person in the armor is the one who calls the blow.  That means that in
order to not win at crown tourney, you personally have to admit defeat.

This goes a long way to preventing any griping afterwards.
Yes, there is the occasional "he has a rhino" comment afterwards,
but, that is mostly not does by the people who admitted defeat.
They decided to call it quits, for whatever reasons.

Any other competition (so far), relies on everyone's faith in the
objectiveness of judges...  a shakiy thing in a society of people who
simply don't have to play....

Anyone know of another way to get non-fighters on the thrones without
any (or even very little) griping?  Please tell us!

Scott Nolan
snolan@marge.hq.af.mil

aka: Duncan Tiercel MacLeod
     Barony of Ponte Alto, Atlantia

==============================================================

We are lucky we don't have as much government as we pay for!

			- will rodgers

Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
From: ds4p+@andrew.cmu.edu (David Schroeder)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Oldest/Youngest Rulers
Date: 31 Dec 92 03:54:03 GMT
Article-I.D.: andrew.sfEjhvC00WB9AB_Wlj
Organization: Doctoral student, Industrial Administration, Carnegie Mellon, Pittsburgh, PA

Greetings, good gentles, and
 may much joy be yours in the New Year!

Here's an interesting question or three...

  Who are the oldest and youngest people ever to sit on thrones
  as King and Queen in the Known World?  As Prince and Princess
  of a Principality?  As Baron and Baroness of a barony?

I'd hazard that the youngest princess was the daughter of Bjo
and John Trimble (he's always been John ap Griffin and she's
now Flavia something-or-other, I think...).  Their daughter
was a pre-teen, if memory serves.  Likewise, the oldest
princess is probably Janeldis, the dowager princess of
An Tir (pray pardon any spelling errors and please post
corrections).

Are there any older or younger?  What about fighters?
Duke Hanno of the East and Caid was 18-19 when he won
Eastern Crown, I think.

It should be an interesting bit of interkingdom anthropology.

Joy, health, love, and peace be yours -- Bertram

+-----------------------------------------------------------------------+
Bertram of Bearington                                      Dave Schroeder
Debatable Lands/AEthelmearc/East               Carnegie Mellon University
INTERNET: ds4p@andrew.cmu.edu                         412/731-3230 (Home)
+------------------------ PREME * Press On * PREME ---------------------+
      "He indulged in every excess, yes in each licentious whim..." 
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
From: PAULB@saturn.uark.EDU ("Paul A. Byers")
Subject: Is the Rialto censored?
Organization: University of Arkansas
Date: Tue, 22 Dec 1992 16:53:32 GMT

I sent a post responding to Sir John Theophilous about Calontir
shields. It also mentioned that I have noticed lots of Racism and
Sexism in the SCA. (almost exclusivly against White males.) and the
poist just seems to have vanished. I post a 'hello, anyone hear me.'
and I get 13 replys in 2 hours. What gives. Is the Rialto gone PC?

Pavel
Calontir
From: pwr@jab.tucson.az.us (Patrick Reed)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: SCA Forums
Keywords: SCA, Newsletters, Publications, Information
Date: Wed, 30 Dec 92 04:01:08 MST
Organization: Just Another Bbs. Tucson, AZ

Volfred quotes Baron Dur al-Jabar:
 
> There's Thinkwell (Aelflad of Duckford), a newsletter camparing customs on 
> philosophys of various kingdoms.
> 
> Pinkwell (Goodwife Dou-sabots) for Polly-Anna's with rose spectacles focusing
> on the glamor of SCA careers.
> 
> Stinkwell (another underground publication), the SCAndal sheet with all the 
> latest (and some ancient) dirt on the notables and stuffed-shirts of the Know
> Worlde.

Your Excellency,
 
  These publications which you have provided could prove most useful.  
Might I ask of you the Internet mailing address for each publisher?
 
        In service,
        Lord Volfred
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
From: perkins@MSUPA.PA.MSU.EDU
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: Period Calendar Wanted
Date: 3 Jan 93 05:20:27 GMT
Reply-To: perkins@MSUPA.PA.MSU.EDU
Organization: MSU Dept. of Physics & Astronomy
NNTP-Posting-Host: msupa.pa.msu.edu

In article <BRANDON.93Jan2141942@gauss.math.brown.edu>, 
brandon@gauss.math.brown.edu (Joshua Brandon) writes:

>          [...]  A sundial measures where the sun is in it's path across
>the sky, without regard to how long that path actually takes.  When the sun
>is highest (local noon) the shadow of the gnomon will *always* be at the
>middle marking (or disappear entirely).  When the sun is on the horizon
>(sunup or sundown) the shadow will always be in the same place, which will
>depend on the latitude (I think), but not the time of year.               

This is not true.  For example, this morning at sunrise in East Lansing,
MI (about 8:12 am EST), the sun was on the horizon at azimuth 121 degrees
(plus or minus a degree -- in any case, considerably south of east). This
coming March 20th, at sunrise (6:42 am EST), the sun will be on the horizon
at azimuth 90 degrees (due east).  This will make a big difference as to
where the shadow of the sundial's gnomon will fall.  By setting up the
plane of the sundial at different angles to the ground, you can adjust the
placement of the shadow to more closely approximate equal hours or to more
closely represent the model you describe of "sunrise/sunset at a constant
time".  Neither of these will be exactly achievable due to the ellipticity
of the earth's orbit (look up "the equation of time" in a practical
astronomy text), but the deviation will likely be less than 15-20 minutes
at any given time of the year.

>                                                             Therefore, you
>only need one set of markings, as long as the sundial stays in more or less
>the same place.

Yes -- but, as I point out above, what the markings represent will differ
depending on the exact layout and placement of the sundial.

 ---------------------------------------------------------------------
 Jeremy de Merstone       George J Perkins    perkins@msupa.pa.msu.edu
 North Woods, MidRealm    East Lansing, MI    perkins@msupa (Bitnet)
From: SAUNDRSG@qucdn.queensu.ca (Graydon)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: William's mention of authentic equipment
Date: 2 Jan 93 05:32:00 GMT
Organization: The Internet

This got me thinking; what exactly would I need to have *really*
authentic archery equipment?

A furnace to refine iron ore in by a period technique.
Some iron ore of the appropriate type.
The smithing skills to make that iron into:
a froe, an ax, some splitting wedges, a saw (I hope!), some plane
blades, a wood rasp, a drawknife, and a selection of files - one
large flat file, a small flat file, and a small round file.  Oh -
and a knife and a largish chisel and maybe a small ax.

A yew tree (preferably one big enough to cut a whole stave from),
or an ash or a wych elm.

A section of tree, free from knots, at least a foot in diameter
and 30 inches long.  (30 cm by 75 cm)

The wooden planes and jigs to split that section of tree (from a
good arrow wood species) into shakes, plane them flat, dry them,
split them into stele blanks and make them into finished steles.
The first one of these planes I get to make with just the drawknife.
Ick.  I also need a chunk of boxwood or beech to make the planes from.

A period variety of flax seed, whatever tools I'd need to grow
it and convert it into linen thread in a period fashion.

A period-fashion beehive, for wax.   A pine tree and a period
rosin receipe, and a period pine tar extraction technique.
An oil press to make linseed oil (which goes into the gunk that
holds the points on) from some of the flax seeds.

A couple dozen period geese (easiest to use wild geese, I think)
for feathers for the fletching. Period silk thread and some glue.

Horn from a period veriety of cattle, for arrow nocks and bow nocks.

A hide tanned in a period way from a period variety of cow for
a bracer, shooting glove, and finger tabs, all to (doubtfully existing)
period patterns.

I'm going to have trouble doing all that. :]

I salute the intention, William, but 'authentic' isn't a boolean
state.  (I don't want to *know* what a Near Eastern persona would
have to do!)

Graydon
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
From: habura@vccnw13.its.rpi.edu (Andrea Marie Habura)
Subject: Re: German heraldry
Organization: Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute, Troy, NY
Date: Thu, 31 Dec 1992 14:23:52 GMT

Gwenllian writes about the difficulty of spreading the news about new
charges to local heralds.

My lady, *no* library access, whether in West Texas or in New York City, 
is going to be adequate for the SCA herald. I've had to gently re-teach
quite a few new heralds who sat down and memorized Fox-Davies--with all
of its Victorian errors/points of view/incompatibility with SCA practice.
(No intention to imply that we're perfect, here--but we *are* different.)
We already use terms that can't be found in the accessible English-language
heraldic texts...chape', for example. We have rules that didn't exist in
real-world heraldry anywhere, anytime. We already deal with the problem you
cite. 
	Recently, we had a submission that involved a "phoenix proper". As
it turns out (as I discovered by looking up the word "phoenix" in the
OED), phoenices are reddish-purple, just as the submitter had claimed. 
This illustrates the problem, even though it uses English words and concepts
only (the purple phoenix appears in an English bestiary): I call it the
"Dyson's Metal Mark Butterfly syndrome". [In case you're wondering: an SCA
person has a DMMB on her arms...and it's so obscure that every time there's
a potential conflict, there's a hooraw about what color the **$%^ butterfly 
is.] Severe cases of DMMBS have been known to give scribes and heralds fits.
It is likely that the solution to DMMBS, which can be extended to German
field divisions and other funky period heraldry, is to seriously strengthen
the educational function of the CoA, even at the expense of conflict
checking. If each local herald either knew what a seeblatt was, or knew
who in the Kingdom to ask,  we'd be a lot better off. 

(Heretical thought: Tibor brought up an excellent point, which is that
our current conflict rules tend to push our armory *away* from period norms,
rather than toward them. It is entirely possible to register good period
looking heraldry in the SCA, but it isn't easy. I have actually gotten to 
the point where I'd advocate dropping conflict checking against *all* 
real-world armory, including "Gules, three lions passant in pale Or", and
throwing all of our released energy into research and education. Perhaps 
this is a burnout symptom; I don't know. But I have done some thinking 
about this lately...it might be better to let the *populace* decide what
would be too presumptuous. Anyone registering "Azure, semy-de-lys Or" would
very likely take a lot of flak from everyone in the vicinity, as long as it
wasn't perceived as "tweaking those d*mn heralds' noses". I think that, after
a couple of years of such near-universal grief, the person would give up and 
register something else. Similar social pressure has caused the smoking rate
in the US to decrease...after decades of health warnings that had no effect.)

Alison MacDermot
*Ex Ungue Leonem*


From: Ron.Hauser@f76.n280.z1.fidonet.org (Ron Hauser)
Sender: Uucp@blkcat.UUCP
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: On The Nature Of Armor...
Date: Fri, 18 Dec 1992 10:16:00 -0500

*****In response to Lyle F.'s comments on accepting light blows*****

[stuff from John Schmidt deleted]

LF>Oh, there is one other assumption here: That I can feel the blow at al
LF>can't feel it at all, I can't count it (for those who want to know, I 
LF>wax-hardened leather scales on the inside of a leather vest, both 8 oz
LF>leather -- I should be able to feel the blow under most circumstances)

Greetings milord.  You have parenthetically touched on one of my pet 
peeves.  Understand, I do not suggest that you personally profess the 
following philosophy, you have just reminded me of some incidents.  

I am sometimes quite irritated by the assumption "well I dont wear hardly 
any armor milord, and I didn't feel that, so it must have been light."  
Many people who wear near-minimum armor are quite aware of what shots land 
on their body (since it creates a bruise), but I have seen people get 
excited and pumped up on adrenaline, to the point where they didn't feel 
much of anything--good, light, or anything short of bone crushing.  
"Switch to minimum armor so that you can feel the shots" is often 
suggested to fighters who have a blow acknowledgement problem; however, 
this doesn't help at all if that person's acknowledgement problem is 
because they get excited and don't think clearly while fighting.  Any 
fighter needs a certain amount of attention directed to their body in 
order to fairly judge blows, whether they are wearing plate or a tunic.  
Letting your pain sensors think for you will help, but pain can and will 
be blocked by your body.

For those of you who wonder, I fight in 15th century footmen's plate 
(steel), so I have the worst of both worlds--my shoulderblades, armpits, 
and thighs are bare, while my breast and belly are covered by plate.  If a 
blow lands on my plate, it normally makes only a noise, but if it lands on 
flesh, it smarts real good (unless I am really pumped up, of course!!).

H.L. Rolf Eichmann, Calontir.
ron.hauser@howard.omahug.org
From: bq434@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Michael A. Chance)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: Drachenwald Kingdom ideas
Date: 31 Dec 1992 19:25:41 GMT
Organization: Case Western Reserve University, Cleveland, OH (USA)
Reply-To: bq434@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Michael A. Chance)
NNTP-Posting-Host: hela.ins.cwru.edu


In a previous article, Arval wrote (commenting on William proposal):

>
>> 3. Peerage. Corpora regulates the three peerage orders in detail, so
>>    we cannot get rid of them. 
>
>True, but you could ignore them entirely, or choose one of the three and
>award it to all peers.  

If my memory of the tale of the first Knighting ceremony in AS 2 is
correct, wasn't the title "Knight of the Laurel" used?  Not to mention
that there were Laurels created for the "art/science of administration"
(or some such) before the Order of the Pelican was established.

Perhaps Hal or Dorothea (or maybe even Flieg) can fill us in on the
particulars.

Mikjal Annarbjorn
-- 
Michael A. Chance          St. Louis, Missouri, USA    "At play in the fields
Work: mc3078@sw1sta.sbc.com                             of St. Vidicon"
Play: bq434@cleveland.freenet.edu
      mchance@nyx.cs.du.edu
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
From: 71431.167@compuserve.COM (REED E HARRIG)
Subject: On the nature of armor and too light blows
Organization: The Internet
Date: Wed, 23 Dec 1992 15:49:17 GMT

Carolus wrote: "I took some old worn-out boiled leather armour, set it
   up on a post, and had one of the strongest heavy fighters I know
   swing at it with a real sword.  Of 5 blows, all of which would have
   been termed 'excessive' in force, only one completely cut the
   leather."

I take it that this means you feel we swing too light across the board
and even our heaviest blows would not have done 'real' damage.  IF you
are intersted in a *real* test, put your self in that armour and let
the same guy swing the same blows at you.  My guess, because I'm not
stupid enough to try this, is that even when the leather is not cut, 
your body underneth the armour will suffer crippling damage.

Carolus also wrote: "The problem is that *very* light blows...can be
   delivered using techniques which could simply *not* be "pumped up" 
   enough to damage through armour.  ...Because all of the body
   language the attacker shows in blow development is absent, the
   little wrist flick blow can often be landed with ridiculous
   ease...Thus is we start taking such blows as "good", we have gone
   (even farther) from practicing medieval combat to practicing "tag" 
   with sticks."

First I would like to take except with the concept that the body
language of the attacker is NOT an indication of blow force. 
I rarely show any body language when I start my attacks.  This is
deliberate, and has taken years of practice. Only my opponents can tell
you if my blows are good enough.  When we start evaluating blows by any
method other than how hard they land, we open a can of worms that IMHO
will cause more problems that it solves.

There are such things as light blows.  But I believe that they are the
exception rather than the rule.  Calling a blow light does little to
increase your skill as a fighter.  If a fighter finds themself calling
more blows light than good, it might be an indication that the problem
is with the fighter, not the guy throwing the shots.

BTW if you are really interested in kicking, shield bashing, 
grappling, striking from behind and all those other *real* combat
tactics, there is a group out this direction call the Tuchux.  Maybe
you should look them up.

-Palymar

From: Beth.Appleton@f4229.n124.z1.fidonet.org (Beth Appleton)
Sender: FredGate@ocitor.fidonet
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: German heraldry
Date: Tue, 29 Dec 1992 12:38:14

 JG> I quite like the test, but I run into the same 
 JG> problem:  German heralds had 
 JG> single words to describe heraldry which we are 
 JG> forced to explain in complex 
 JG> phrases.  Since much of our herald-speak is a 
 JG> learned variant of French, 
 JG> could we not throw in elements of a learned variant 
 JG> of German (etc) to expand 
       Ok, do you have a single, widely available, English-language 
 source for these German words?  One that the local herald of Podunkia 
 will be able to access when trying to figure out just what the 
 emblazon should be so they can determine conflict?  This has been a 
 concern in the continental styles -- while I'm not a scholar of that 
 area, I haven't seen anyone offer up a source for the continental stuff 
 that is easy-access for our newer, geographically isolated, heralds.
       BTW, would you mind quoting a specific example of a registered 
 blazon which has the problem you speak of? (German described in multi-
 word string).
      Gwenllian Cwmystwyth, Actuarius P., Ansteorra

 * Origin: Herald's Point * Steppes/Ansteorra * 214-699-0057 (1:124/4229)
From: ds4p+@andrew.cmu.edu (David Schroeder)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Spinning Wheels
Date: 3 Jan 93 04:17:26 GMT
Article-I.D.: andrew.UfFjJqW00WB341hYAh
Organization: Doctoral student, Industrial Administration, Carnegie Mellon, Pittsburgh, PA

Good gentles,

The author of _The Care and Feeding of Spinning Wheels_, Karen Pauli,
is indeed a member of the SCA.  She's known as Mistress Helva of Saxony
and has been a Laurel for over 10 years.  She also makes whimsical
dragons from bits of ribbon and sells ceramic pins of the various
Midrealm awards and orders at Pennsic.  A wonderful lady and a 
wonderful book -- highly recommended!

My best to you all in the New Year -- Bertram

+-----------------------------------------------------------------------+
Bertram of Bearington                                      Dave Schroeder
Debatable Lands/AEthelmearc/East               Carnegie Mellon University
INTERNET: ds4p@andrew.cmu.edu                         412/731-3230 (Home)
+------------------------ PREME * Press On * PREME ---------------------+
      "He indulged in every excess, yes in each licentious whim..."
From: ds4p+@andrew.cmu.edu (David Schroeder)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: Non fighting royalty
Date: 31 Dec 92 22:03:06 GMT
Article-I.D.: andrew.wfEzeuK00WB=8FiNMV
Organization: Doctoral student, Industrial Administration, Carnegie Mellon, Pittsburgh, PA

Good gentles, again greetings!

An interesting thought has just crossed my mind...

Would it take ANY revisions to Corpora (or most kingdom's laws)
for the King and Queen to announce that ONLY those combattants
able to submit a list of 30 (or some other large number) other
fighters willing to attend Crown Tourney and fight as their 'army' 
would be considered 'acceptable' to compete in the upcoming Crown?

Along the same lines, would it take any revisions to the existing
rules to have "melee" be one of the "weapons forms" used in a more
traditional round of the finals?

I'm looking forward to learning more!    My best -- Bertram

+-----------------------------------------------------------------------+
Bertram of Bearington                                      Dave Schroeder
Debatable Lands/AEthelmearc/East               Carnegie Mellon University
INTERNET: ds4p@andrew.cmu.edu                         412/731-3230 (Home)
+------------------------ PREME * Press On * PREME ---------------------+
      "He indulged in every excess, yes in each licentious whim..." 
From: Beth.Appleton@f4229.n124.z1.fidonet.org (Beth Appleton)
Sender: FredGate@ocitor.fidonet
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Midrealm Crown Tourney customs
Date: Thu, 31 Dec 1992 15:52:30

 LL> Hmmm As far as I know, the West has done just fine 
 LL> at surviving without 
 LL> massive amounts of qualifications that people have 
 LL> to meet to be King. 
 LL> The biggy is "..be acceptable to the Crown"..  
 With all due respects, I believe the West has had large Crown tourneys 
 for long enough that that in itself is a filter.  The more rounds a 
 person has to fight through, the lower the chance gets that the 
 "hot stick" without sufficient SCA experience will make it all the way. 
 A few years back, Ansteorra was scraping to get a 16 man list for 
 Crown Tourney. 
....
 LL> I have had the Honor of serving as a Queen of the 
 LL> West. I made mistakes, 
 LL> but was abiliy guided by my King, the officers and the Royal Peers, 
 LL> who were there with advice, and opinions.  They were always willing 
 LL> to discuss matters, and were willing to respect our decisions, even 
 LL> if we disagreed.
 If every "bad crown" had just had the patience to listen to that 
 group, I don't think there would *be* nearly as many "bad crowns".  
     I realize this is none of my business, but you gave the impression 
 that you wouldn't have passed the Ansteorran requirements without 
 specifying.  Was that impression incorrect, or would you mind being a 
 bit more specific?  
     Neutrally curious,
        Gwenllian Cwmystwyth, Steppes, Ansteorra

 * Origin: Herald's Point * Steppes/Ansteorra * 214-699-0057 (1:124/4229)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
From: kate@Micor.OCUnix.on.ca (Kate Sanderson)
Subject: Brand the Black Read This!
Organization: M.B. Cormier INC.
Date: Sat, 26 Dec 92 12:34:12 EST


Hi Brand! 

I have a message for you from Tim the Fop, but I've lost your email 
address.  Please drop me a line!

Sorry to take up bandwidth for this, folks.....

                   Kasia Blackfox

kate@micor.ocunix.on.ca
From: Tim@f4229.n124.z1.fidonet.org (Tim)
Sender: FredGate@ocitor.fidonet