HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: BARANSKI@veamf1.nusc.navy.mil (Jim Baranski)
Newsgroups: misc.rural
Subject: Dragging Logs
Date: 28 Dec 92 20:37:56 GMT
Organization: Naval Underwater Sound Center, New London CT
X-News-Reader: VMS NEWS 1.20

I have 15 acres of hilly woods which needs to be thinned out.  I have about a
semi of 1-2 ft diameter red oak, hemlock and beech which I would like to cut
down, and cut into beams and boards and use for various projects.

My questions are basically, what's the best way to get the logs out of the
woods.  There are several overgrown barways and tracks in various places, but
because of the hilly terrain, it's going to be difficult to get in and out.

Basically I figure that I'm going to have to drag the logs at least a 100
yards, and maybe 1000 feet before I can get it to a place where I can get a
truck or a trailer.

What's the best method for dragging logs?  Tractor?  Horse?  Other?  What size
tactor would I need to drag logs?  I don't currently have a tractor, and I
don't really want to spend a lot of money for a huge tractor, but if I can drag
the logs with a small tractor, it might be worth it.  How much HP would I need?
Would a 'garden' 20 HP tractor do it?

Another idea I had was to have a small cart with a electric or hydraulic winch
powered by a battery or lawnmower sized engine.  I could haul this thing into
the woods wherever I wanted to pretty easily, chain it to a tree about a cable
length away from the log in the direction I want to go, reel out the cable,
latch onto the log and drag it up to the winch, and repeat untill I have the
log where I want it.

Another alternative would be to have the winch on the truck.  Three places come
to mind, in the front, in the rear of the pickup bed, or in the front of the
pickup bed.  Which place is better?  The plus of having the winch in the front
of the pickup bed would be that the winch could be used to drag the log right
up a ramp into the bed, or onto a trailer.

How many of what size logs can I expect to be able to haul with a F150 in the
truck bed?  How many in a heavy duty trailer could the straight-6 F150 pull in
a trailer instead of in the bed?  What size trailer would be best?  I'm think
of something the size of a heavy boat trailer, something that could carry a
small car...  It's a good bet that the previous owner pulled horses with this
truck.

Thanks,

James Baranski            | It's Not Easy Keeping Vaxen Working ...  Underwater!
Vax Systems Analyst       | BARANSKI@VEAMF1.NUSC.NAVY.MIL 203-440-6510, 889-4968
Lanman Hill, Norwich CT   | Be: Thoughtfull, Honest, Yourself, Happy
Newsgroups: misc.rural
From: pecampbe@mtu.edu (Paul Campbell)
Subject: Re: concerns with well water and a septic tank
Organization: Michigan Technological University
Distribution: usa
Date: Sun, 3 Jan 1993 06:47:39 GMT

In article <1992Dec31.142839.4942@hubcap.clemson.edu> hubcap@hubcap.clemson.edu (System Janitor) writes:

>[I said]
>>If you REALLY want to be economical about it, build yourself either your
>>own wind mill or solar system, or both.
>That sounds really economical to me. I live in a rural area. Here's a deal
>for you. I'll run my house off wind mills and solar power, and keep paying
>what I'm paying now. If there's a surplus, you get it. If I end up in
>the hole, you pay. Deal?

I have seen houses run this way in Colorado and Michigan. There are some
problems; the initial setup cost is still pretty nasty. Some of the ways
that it was set up failed for various reasons. If you are seriously
considering it, go for it. Two of the neighbors use a passive solar water
system that heats their houses in winter (one of them has an underground
house so only a really tiny amount of heat is needed anyway). Both are
quite satisfied. Wind power has the disadvantage that you need a bank
of batteries around or possibly have the funny watt meters installed
that go both directions (sell power to the local power company when you
are generating a surplus; buy it when you are drawing some) and let the
regular grid be your battery.

No deal. It's not that I don't feel you are going to end up in the hole,
but that this is an investment situation with risk involved, most of
which I am not able to directly control.
From: aad@siemens.com (Anthony Datri)
Newsgroups: misc.rural
Subject: Re: Wood Heating
Date: 28 Dec 92 22:51:22 GMT
Distribution: na
Organization: Siemens Corporate Research, Princeton (Plainsboro), NJ


>3) The baseboards got in the way of EVERYTHING!   You can't put bookshelves,
>dressers, chests of drawers, etc..., against the walls with baseboard heaters.

Yeah -- the place I just moved into has these things.  How much space would
you recommend between them and furniture?

Mine make a hell of a racket when they turn on -- expansion, I suspect.
-- 

======================================================================8--<
Newsgroups: misc.rural
From: ddt@cbnews.cb.att.com (david.treat)
Subject: smokey basement
Organization: AT&T
Distribution: na
Date: Thu, 24 Dec 1992 15:25:10 GMT

Here's a question for all you wood burning experts out there.

I have a wood burning stove in my family room.  The draft is sometimes
poor, but sometimes OK.  The times it is poor, smoke comes into the room
rather than up the flu when the stove door is opened to add wood.  Sometimes
the smoke actually travels _down_ the flu and through the cleaning door
and into the basement.  You can actually see the smoke as well as smell
it in the basement.  And when you look at the chimney from outside, often
smoke leaving the chimney floats _down_ into the back yard, rather than
rising.

Any ideas on what can be causing all this?

Many thanks in advance,

Dave Treat
AT&T Bell Labs - North Andover, MA

ddt@mvuts.att.com
Newsgroups: misc.rural
From: aad@siemens.com (Anthony Datri)
Subject: Re: concerns with well water and a septic tank
Organization: Siemens Corporate Research, Princeton (Plainsboro), NJ
Distribution: usa
Date: Wed, 30 Dec 1992 15:53:22 GMT

>or paints.  Minimal grease.  Low or zero phosphate detergents.

I've been using the Arm & Hammer stuff because it doesn't have itchy enzymes.
I *think* it's low phosphate, but I don't think the box lists the content.

>Gas stoves are far more environmentally friendly than almost anything else.

Yep -- that's one reason why I wouldn't even consider a damned electric
one.  Others are the slow response time and bad contact.

>Even with pilot lights, they're burning far fewer fossil fuels than an electric
>stove does in the power plant that's supplying it.

Agreed -- what really concerns me, though, is that one of them will go out and
spit methane into my apartment.  My mother had a stove with "electronic"
ignition something like 25 years ago, and I'd never *seen* one with a pilot
until about a year and a half ago.

>>I find it out when the pump drops the voltage throughout the electrical web.

>Probably not.  The pump will either just shut itself off, or make a smelly,
>hot and loud sound as it leaves this earth.

The place also has a shitty electrical system.  When the well pump (or the
compressor in the fridge) turns on, the lights dim and the TV glitches.
-- 

======================================================================8--<
Newsgroups: misc.rural
From: bowmanj@csn.org (Jerry Bowman)
Subject: Re: Tow chains or slings?
Organization: University of Colorado Boulder, OCS
Date: Tue, 29 Dec 1992 17:34:19 GMT

In article <Dec21.162630.80677@yuma.ACNS.ColoState.EDU> johnc@yuma.ACNS.ColoState.EDU (John Cooley) writes:
>In article <fvaughn.44@stpaul.ncr.com> fvaughn@stpaul.ncr.com (Frank Vaughn) writes:
>
>>I have heard of several cases of people pulling stuck vehicles w/ straps, 
>>the strap breaking, and the person in one of the vehicles being injured/
>>killed by the remnant of the strap.
>
>>If I don't have a chain and am forced to use a strap, I will open the hood 
>>and pull backwards to protect against this case.
>
>>Straps are okay for towing, but I would avoid pulling stuck vehicles out of 
>>ditches, etc., if possible.
>
>Straps can break; chains can break.  Chains do a lot of damage when they
>break.  Straps can, too, but for reasons detailed earlier, I prefer a strap.
>Other posts have described effective safety measures for the use of either.
>
>Straps must be cared for more rigorously than chains and they must be
>replaced regularly.  Using a frayed or inadequate strap will cause grief
>similar to that caused by using a chain with a weak link.  Tensile strength
>of chains is less than their weight might suggest.  Jerking a chain is hard
>on both vehicles and the chain, so the chain is often ineffective unless
>traction is excellent, and it may cause vehicle damage even if it doesn't
>break.  Transient loads are very high.  
>
>I have seen straps break, with no resulting damage.  I have seen thousands
>of dollars worth of damage done by chains which didn't break, but simply
>bent the vehicles to which they were attached.  User error?  Absolutely.  It
>is an easy error for the overenthusiastic hero to commit.
>
>Am I claiming that a strap never causes damage?  Absolutely not.  They can
>and do.  Winch cables break, too, and if you think they haven't stretched
>before they break, then watching one fail will be a revelation.
>
>If you decide to get into the hero business, you're introducing risk.
>I believe that well-maintained straps of sufficient size introduce less
>risk than the chains that most people are willing to carry, which are
>neither long enough nor strong enough.  And unlike chains, straps can be
>jerked, which increases their effectiveness (and the risk!).
>
>        John Cooley
>
     It has been my experience, having done alot of fourwheeling,  thus
    pulling out many stuck vehicles, that both chains and straps can be 
    dangerous. The best method seems to be a strap with a length of chain 
    at each end. The chain keeps the strap away from sharp edges of bumpers 
    etc.which is a common reason for strap failure. Whatever your method,
    stay alert.

Newsgroups: misc.rural
From: ddabay@ruacad.ac.runet.edu (Dave Dabay)
Subject: Re: Dragging Logs
Organization: Radford University
Date: Tue, 29 Dec 1992 13:02:38 GMT

In article <1992Dec28.203756.2596@nntp.nta.no> BARANSKI@veamf1.nusc.navy.mil (Jim Baranski) writes:
>I have 15 acres of hilly woods which needs to be thinned out.  I have about a
>semi of 1-2 ft diameter red oak, hemlock and beech which I would like to cut
>down, and cut into beams and boards and use for various projects.
>
>My questions are basically, what's the best way to get the logs out of the
>woods.  There are several overgrown barways and tracks in various places, but
>because of the hilly terrain, it's going to be difficult to get in and out.
>
>Basically I figure that I'm going to have to drag the logs at least a 100
>yards, and maybe 1000 feet before I can get it to a place where I can get a
>truck or a trailer.
>
>What's the best method for dragging logs?  Tractor?  Horse?  Other?  What size
>tactor would I need to drag logs?  I don't currently have a tractor, and I
>don't really want to spend a lot of money for a huge tractor, but if I can drag
>the logs with a small tractor, it might be worth it.  How much HP would I need?
>Would a 'garden' 20 HP tractor do it?

Unless you are experienced with logging with a horse, stay away form this 
method as you could hurt both the horse and yourself.  There is definitelt
an art to logging by horse on a hill.  On the flats you should be OK.

Small "lawn" tractors are also fairly useless as they just don't have the 
weight and pulling power to do what you want. 

The safest (read slowest) is to use winches, cables and comealongs.  Be 
cautious of using an F-150 as an anchor point....I have seen them (the 
truck) hanging in trees before, when a winch gets out of control or the
truck slips..

Be careful

>
>Another idea I had was to have a small cart with a electric or hydraulic winch
>powered by a battery or lawnmower sized engine.  I could haul this thing into
>the woods wherever I wanted to pretty easily, chain it to a tree about a cable
>length away from the log in the direction I want to go, reel out the cable,
>latch onto the log and drag it up to the winch, and repeat untill I have the
>log where I want it.

Sounds intersting...

>
>Thanks,
>
>James Baranski            | It's Not Easy Keeping Vaxen Working ...  Underwater!
>Vax Systems Analyst       | BARANSKI@VEAMF1.NUSC.NAVY.MIL 203-440-6510, 889-4968
>Lanman Hill, Norwich CT   | Be: Thoughtfull, Honest, Yourself, Happy

Good luck and Good logging..
dave

-- 
Dave Dabay   Telecommunications Network Supervisor   703-831-5482    KD3PC	
Radford University Computer Services	Internet: ddabay@ruacad.ac.runet.edu
Newsgroups: misc.rural
Subject: Re: Wood Heating
From: Stafford@Vax2.Winona.MSUS.EDU (John Stafford)
Date: 21 Dec 92 09:57:28 -0600
Followup-To: misc.rural
Distribution: usa
Organization: MSUS

In article <1992Dec19.002153.24672@cbfsb.cb.att.com>,
mvm@cbnewsb.cb.att.com (michael.v.murphy) wrote:
> 
>     In talking to a builder about heating with wood, I mentioned that I wanted
> to heat a house that I am planning to build partially with wood. 

If you are building a _new_ home, I strongly suggest that priority
be given to a modern wood-burning furnace which will supplement
(or occasionally substitute for) the central unit.  In other words,
a fireplace is nice to have and a woodburning stove is too, but the
real ticket is an efficient furnace.

...and a real important point concerns the cold-air returns and general
efficiency of convection (static) warm-air systems.  With a new home
and a wood-burning furnace, you can built it right to begin with and
obviate the (very common) problems with circulation one gets when just
adding wood-burners.

My place, for example, is a older farm home which has been added onto
and as a result, the cold-air returns are completely inadequate.  I
have to open the laundry shute doors open to get cold air to return!
From: pecampbe@mtu.edu (Paul Campbell)
Newsgroups: misc.rural
Subject: Re: slings (tow strap)  what rating?
Date: 25 Dec 92 04:59:30 GMT
Organization: Michigan Technological University

In <1992Dec21.170216.20503@CERIS.Purdue.EDU> dheisler@CERIS.Purdue.EDU (Dave Heisler) writes:
>
>the things 5k pounds is pretty wimpy.

What did you plan on doing with one of these? Towing an ATC/ATV out of the
snow bank that your kid thought he could run through? Seriously, 5K is
NOT something I would trust. Watched a 3-inch strap snap in half on a light
little Toyota pickup, and the strap was brand new!

>
>By extrapolating i'm thinking 20k is more like it,

>i've seen ones like that, with no hooks but loops
>sewn into the ends.
>

I usually carry 2 20K straps with loops in the ends and a 2-ton come-along.
I would really like to upgrade to a 3 ton winch (truck weighs in at 4500
lbs. and if you get it good and mired, I wouldn't trust the comealong), but
don't have the cash handy. Normally, I wrap one strap around a tree and the
other around the frame, so that the ends are hooked to the comealong, but
if the distance is too far, I can drop that kind of nonsense and only have
single strap lengths. If I'm yanking a vehicle, I ALWAYS use one or either
strap to make sure there are at least 2 connections between the vehicles,
both for reasons of just in case something cuts loose, and for added
strength in case something cuts loose.

I also watched a guy destroy the front differential in his jeep yanking
a guy out of the mud by pulling backwards. I don't remember if he did
this by stupidly tying the strap around the axle, but I don't think he
did.

On the farm here, with tractors getting stuck, we use the same sort of
system, except the straps are 1.5 inch braided nylon ropes with loops
in the ends. Hooks are dangerous. We also always use clevises, but I
have seen members of the four-wheeler's club at school using some sort
of hooks that had a sort of latch mechanism (similar to the latch of
a carbiner), but I wouldn't trust a flimsy piece of metal to make a hook
safe.

Only use I have for chains is anchors. Wrap one around a tree a couple
times to provide something to tie to, or around a bumper or frame, but
that's about it, even if it is a logging chain.

I would suggest 20K tow straps (those doubled over 2-inch wide ones)
as a bare minimum. A 4-ton vehicle (Bronco 2, Ranger, other small
light truck, jeep, etc.) will put about 20K of stress on one in a jerk.
Otherwise, if you can afford it, even if they are a pain in the rear,
bulky, hard to wrap around anything but very large clevises, and so on,
get yourself a 4 inch wide tow strap. A short section of chain is
also very useful to use as an anchor point (say 10 feet so you have
enough to wrap around some of the larger trees at least twice or go
around somebody's frame). Try not to use a comealong. I really hate
using it myself but I don't have the cash spare right now for a decent
winch.
Newsgroups: misc.rural,misc.consumers.house
From: de5@ORNL.GOV (Dave Sill)
Subject: Re: Dry well sizing
Organization: Oak Ridge National Lab, Oak Ridge, TN
Date: Mon, 21 Dec 1992 12:45:34 GMT

In article <BzHDCE.J9I@srgenprp.sr.hp.com>, jefftb@sr.hp.com (Jeff Brown) writes:
>
>     I don't mean to sound stupid but.... what's a dry well. I thought well
>     s are where you got water, and water is wet, isn't it.

Dry wells are gravel/stone-filled underground chambers used to eliminate
unwanted water--e.g., storm runoff, graywater, etc.

-- 
Dave Sill (de5@ornl.gov)                 Computers should work the way beginners
Martin Marietta Energy Systems           expect them to, and one day they will.
Workstation Support                                                -- Ted Nelson
Newsgroups: misc.rural
From: de5@ORNL.GOV (Dave Sill)
Subject: Need advice re: cattle
Organization: Oak Ridge National Lab, Oak Ridge, TN
Date: Mon, 21 Dec 1992 13:24:25 GMT

Background: I've got 31 acres (about 10 cleared) in East Tennessee, fenced
and crossfenced, with a good-sized pond.  I've only been here since June,
and I don't have any experience raising livestock.

My neighbor came over yesterday to ask me if I was interested in renting the
land to him to run some cattle on.  I was planning on buying a couple calves
in the spring, but told him I'd be interested in working out some kind of
deal where he'd show me the ropes--help me buy and raise two calves--in
return for me letting him run 15 calves on my land.

Questions...

1. What's the going rate for enough land to support 15 calves for a year?

2. What would be an equitable trade for the use of my land?  Should I ask
him to buy my two calves, do all the tagging/deworming/vaccinations for
them, feed them (he feeds crushed corn mixed with syrup), etc?  Is that
asking too much or not enough?  How about if I do the daily
feeding/watering?

3. How should I provide him access to the land?  We've got plenty of common
fenceline--he could put in a gate, but it'd be in the woods, not the cleared
area.  There's a gate into the front piece by the road, but it's probably
too steep to drive a pickup through.  There's another gate into the back
piece, but getting to it requires driving through our back yard, and I
really don't want a lot of traffic there (kids and dogs, privacy).

4. We've been enjoying hiking through the woods and fishing in the pond. 
Will we still be able to do that with 17 calves running around in there? 
How dangerous are they?  It would be pretty easy to fence off the woods if I
had to.

5. What kind of terms and conditions should we agree to?  Should I get
something in writing?  If it looks like I'm going to do this, I'll talk to
the local ag. ext. agent.

I'd appreciate any answers, advice, or comments anyone has to offer.  I need
to decide ASAP, though, since he wants to buy the calves soon and start to
"get them ready", as he says.

-- 
Dave Sill (de5@ornl.gov)                 Computers should work the way beginners
Martin Marietta Energy Systems           expect them to, and one day they will.
Workstation Support                                                -- Ted Nelson
Newsgroups: misc.rural
From: tanskane@cc.lut.fi (Janne Tanskanen)
Subject: test
Date: Tue, 29 Dec 1992 14:52:19 GMT
Organization: Lappeenranta University of Technology, Finland

.
-- 
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address: Janne Tanskanen, Penikuja 5, I      email: tanskane.lut.fi
    20660 LITTOINEN, FINLAND          I   "Hailing frequencies closed, sir"
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: Charles.K.Scott@dartmouth.edu (Charles K. Scott)
Newsgroups: misc.rural
Subject: Re: Wood Heating
Date: 30 Dec 92 15:48:43 GMT
 <BzMuzv.JJA@srgenprp.sr.hp.com> 
 <92Dec21.193843edt.1171@smoke.cs.toronto.edu>  
 <1992Dec28.193800.13806@organpipe.uug.arizona.edu>
Organization: Dartmouth College, Hanover, NH
X-Posted-From: InterNews1.0a5@newshost.dartmouth.edu

In article <1992Dec28.193800.13806@organpipe.uug.arizona.edu>
tip@lead.aichem.arizona.edu (Tom Perigrin) writes:

> 4)  Baseboards play hell if you put antique furniture anywhere near them, 
> because they cause uneven heating and drying, with consequent splitting, 
> warping, etc... Made it even harder to place their furniture!

I doubt that the baseboard heaters are the culprit.  Heat, no matter
what the source, be it radiant floor, baseboard, forced hot air ceiling
or whatever the source will dry things out eventually.  We live in a
log house with hot water circulating in plastic pipes just under the
wood floor.  It isn't an aggressive heating system like forced hot air
but it still dries things out just like our wood furnace used to.  I
can't notice any difference.  The only way to keep furniture from
splitting in a winter climate like New England is to have some sort of
automatic humidifier that is capable of maintaining an even humidity. 
We tried it one winter with a clumsy beast that had a cloth wrapped
wheel slowly spinning in a tray of water and a fan to blow it out.  It
was undependable, noisy and kept us up nights, not to mention the
electrical usage.  We never tried anything else although there are
"sonic" humidifiers I've seen now that may do a better job.

Corky Scott
Newsgroups: misc.rural
From: claird@NeoSoft.com (Cameron Laird)
Subject: Re: Wood Heating
Organization: NeoSoft Communications Services -- (713) 684-5900
Date: Mon, 21 Dec 1992 23:12:34 GMT

In article <10588@vtserf.cc.vt.edu> Andrew.Cohill@vtssi.vt.edu (Andrew Michael Cohill) writes:
>Re: Wood Heating
>
>Fireplace inserts are not very good; relative to free-standing stoves, 
>you are still going to lose a great deal of radiated heat up the 
>chimney.  Psychologically, they are not very satisfying because you can't 
>really enjoy the radiant heat source the way you can with a free standing 
>stove.
I know people who are quite forceful
in insisting that much of the value
of wood heat comes from being able
to receive the radiation while in the
room.  I'm not one of those, but
'twould be wise for you to check with
the others who will be in this pro-
posed house.
>
>If you want the thing out of site, you could put it in the basement and 
>put the cold air return right over it.  I have a friend with a 3000+ sq. 
>ft. house, and that's what he did.  He actually has two heat pumps, one 
>upstairs and one downstairs, and when he has the stove fired up just runs 
>the fan.  It works great.  If you do that, don't forget to put firewood 
>door in the basement wall, like the old coal chute doors.  It will save 
>you much, much work.
>
>Even if you are putting the stove upstairs, think about designing in an 
>insulated, double-door wood box that you can open from the outside and 
>load, then walk in the house and open up to take wood out for the stove.
Wood-burning furnace in the basement,
wood doors, importance of cold air
returns:  *good* advice.
			.
			.
			.
-- 

Cameron Laird
claird@Neosoft.com (claird%Neosoft.com@uunet.uu.net)	+1 713 267 7966
claird@litwin.com (claird%litwin.com@uunet.uu.net)  	+1 713 996 8546