HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: rowe@engin.umich.edu (Steven Rowe)
Subject: Re: coming out to family??
Date: Sun, 20 Dec 92 01:55:00 EST
Organization: University of Michigan Engineering, Ann Arbor

In article <BzDwGy.3so@cscns.com> rks@cscns.com (gisle j benediktsson) writes:
>Hello... I have been reading this group for a while now and have noticed
>that there are many people discussing 'coming out' to their families. Now,
>I must somewhat admit that I am mystified. 
>
>I guess I really don't consider my lifestyle to be any of my family's
>business. It is not up to them to 'accept' me. They have two options in
>my own view: they can either accept it or they can fuck off. (That is 
>assuming that I have a piece of information that I may choose to share
>with them.) 
>
>It really bothers me that people seem to be bothered about this?Why in
>the world do we have a tendency to give these people so much power? 
>
>Perplexed...
>
>
>//gisle

Well, let's see.  Being one of the "fuck off" generation myself, I
can see your point.  However, let's remember that most of us have
put in at least 20 years' worth of effort into the relationship
with our folks.  It's a shame to waste that much time and energey,
don't you think?  I mean, if it was just some phobe on the streets,
then sure; "fuck off!" works great.  But I'd rather try to turn my
folks from phobes into LGB*-friendly.
But why be afraid of what they think?  Get serious!  I, for one,
have a terriffic relationship with my folks, and I'd hate for some-
thing to come between us.  'Course, my sex life ISN'T any of their
business, but I can see a time when who I bring home might get some
questions asked, and I never lie to my parents.
Hope this helps...
                          Steve

Oh, and thankyouthankyouthankyou to everybody who sent me e-hugs,
and/or responded to my "miffed" thread.  Hugs back at you.


-- 
Steve Rowe: B0 f- w- c g+ k+ s- e+ r-
I drank too much beer, then tried to sober up by drinking
too much coffee.  The result was that I was still making
irrational decisions, but I was making them *FAST*!  -me
Newsgroups: soc.bi
From: orc@vpnet.chi.il.us (david parsons)
Subject: Re: Introduction, or De-Muffining
Summary: kiss goodbye to the positive signal/noise ratio!
Organization: Department of Atomic Text Units
Date: Fri, 18 Dec 1992 16:55:51 GMT

In article <BzF241.Aww@cck.coventry.ac.uk> idx009@cck.coventry.ac.uk (the Crisco Kid) flirts:
|In article <1992Dec17.024639.2709@ringer.cs.utsa.edu> dwells@lonestar.utsa.edu (Darren . Wells) flirts:
|>*stifled giggle*
|
|You could always jet to the UK...


   Not to join into this flirtfest, but I'll point out that flying
to the UK is a wonderful way to spend a weekend or three. (Okay, so
this might not be quite as practical if you either live in the UK
or on the other side of the world, but for those of us in the
middle it makes a nice holiday.)

   I've heard that the railroads are quite nice in the UK, too.

                 ____
   david parsons \bi/ "Besides, my favorite sex toy these days is
                  \/   a plane ticket" -Suzie Bright
Newsgroups: soc.bi
From: dbshapco@napier.uwaterloo.ca (Brad Shapcott)
Subject: Re: Coercion v. Rape
Organization: University of Waterloo
Date: Mon, 21 Dec 1992 00:57:22 GMT


> Roy writes:
>
>*EEEP* Congratulations, you just made me squirm while I was reading this ...

Quite by accident . . .

>This isn't a flame of you, as I said, but "Because I care about you" pushes
>my button, on a deep emotional level.  I've seen it used to harm people more
>than in just that case above ... I've seen "I want you to snap out of your
>depression about your rape and realize it's your fault because I love you"
>used against some who I've loved ...

Hmmm, you're right.  I've presented myself badly.  I meant to suggest that
one lays off this shit in the abscence of any real caring for the other
person at the proper level, or at least the understanding that sex is all
that is wanted by both participants.  Insincere romanticism for the sole
purpose of tricking a man or woman into bed is also shittily pathetic.
Part of the problem perhaps being the way I wrote it, it *does* look like
I'm condoning deception.

>In terms of "getting sex," I don't particularly think that "I care about
>you" should be a factor in whether or not we have sex.  The only two things
>that are necessary here are: I want it, and sie wants it.  Of course, my
>motives for wanting to have sex with a person, be it "I care about you," or
>"God, you're so gorgeous," or "I want to see you throw back your shoulders
>and moan as I make you come," may be a factor in whether or not _sie_ wants
>to have sex with me, but I dont' think my motives should have a -direct-
>relation to whether or not we have sex.

That might be a little complex for me to follow.  I can't see pursuing the
act except through primal urges unless all participants are more deeply
motivated.  Usually the reason the person comes to want sex is more deeply
motivated than that.  It reduces, as you say, to that.  But there are bad
interactions where one participant wants sex for reason X and the other
for reason Y, and though this reduces to both wanting sex, X and Y clash
and produce bad karma.

So in that sense I disagree.  If one person participates to express affection
that they believe is reciprocated, and then discovers the other partner was
just using them for sex, bad things happen.

Reminds me of an office mate who once said of a relation with a woman, "She
asked me about my intent.  Intent?  I don't really want her to know my intent."
Said intent obviously being to lead this woman on with the tacit promise
of a long term relationship, bed here, and then dump her like an anchor over
the side.  Again, all the scars happen on the inside, and so this asshole
never thought he was doing any wrong.

Without belabouring examples, this walks the fine line towards rape as
well.  But we don't punish crimes against a person's humanity in our
society, only crimes against their body.

>-roy


Brad
Newsgroups: soc.bi
From: jcarroll@bach.udel.edu (James Carroll)
Subject: Re: Pins
Organization: CNS User Services, University of Delaware
Date: Wed, 16 Dec 1992 07:41:35 GMT

In article <BzC6ou.8oC@rice.edu> cathyf@is.rice.edu (Catherine Anne Foulston) writes:
>
>I just started reading tonight...

<sniff> "Is that a fresh out-of-the-oven muffin I smell?"
<nibble> <slurp> 
*hugs*

>...and read all 700-some articles over a few hours.  

Wow!  Now that's a feat!

>And yes this is my first post here.  ;)
>

Welcome!  Glad to have you aboard!

>	Cathy
>-- 
>Cathy Foulston + Rice University + Network & Systems Support + cathyf@rice.edu
>Why you should recycle bytes:  "Believe it or not, most deleted bytes currently
>find their way straight into the Internet refuse stream, often to turn up in
>postings to Usenet, or worse, OSI standards documents!"  -- Peter Deutsch


-James

-- 
I'm feeling kinda loose, I'm feeling kinda mean       | First I was a murderer
I've been feeling kinda wild since I turned seventeen | Then I was a saint
- Melissa Etheridge, "Ain't It Heavy"                 | -The Glove,
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-jcarroll@brahms.udel.edu-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-| "Like An Animal"
Newsgroups: soc.bi,soc.motss
From: alan@auntbea.austin.ibm.com (Alan R. Weiss)
Subject: Re: Liberty (was something relevant about CO-2 long ago...)
Date: Fri, 18 Dec 1992 18:57:39 GMT
Organization: (speaking marginally at best)

In article <1992Dec18.151156.25229@tc.cornell.edu> shore@dinah.tc.cornell.edu (Melinda Shore) writes:
>In article <BzGMLp.vxL@austin.ibm.com> alan@auntbea.austin.ibm.com (Alan R. Weiss) writes:
>>Figure out a way
>>to make the new language attractive to use (instead of a grim
>>faced moralistic necessity), and people will jump on it quickly.
>>For example, if its hip to use gender-neutral/feminist-sensitive
>>language ......
>
>It is.  Where does that leave you?
>--
>       Melinda Shore - Cornell Theory Center - shore@tc.cornell.edu

Clearly too hip.

It is not.  If its not used on talk radio, its not hip.

If its not used on MTV at LEAST as often as Pauly Shore's mug is shown,
							      its not hip.

If its not on the cover of Vanity Fair, naked and pregnant, its not hip.

If Howard Stern doesn't make fun of it every 20 seconds, its not hip.

If it doesn't look like Mel's butt, its not hip.

If it doesn't look like Demi's butt, its not hip.

That leaves me wondering why you missed the point of the posting.
You'll NEVER make ANYTHING hip by forcing it on people, all dour
faced and tragioserious.  Make it cool, make it cold, make it arctic --
in short, chill out -- and it'll be hip.  And therefore accepted
more in common use, from whence it *may* have a chance to pass
into the common lexicon.



-- 
   _  Alan R. Weiss   IBM AWS Austin-AIX Kernel   11501 Burnet Rd, Bld 905
 _| ~-. alan%auntbea.austin.ibm.com@ibmpa.awdpa.ibm.com | Austin, TX 78758
 \, *_} auntbea.austin.ibm.com!alan@ibmpa.awdpa.ibm.com | 512-838-8281
   \(   DISCLAIMER:  Working at, not speaking for, IBM  | alan@auntbea
Newsgroups: soc.bi
From: Albert-Lunde@nwu.edu (Albert Lunde)
Subject: Re: Age of soc.bi (Was: Hi!)
Followup-To: soc.bi
Originator: lunde@casbah.acns.nwu.edu
Reply-To: Albert-Lunde@nwu.edu (Albert Lunde)
Organization: Ministry of Silly Walks
Date: Wed, 16 Dec 1992 13:55:06 GMT

In article <1992Dec15.224120.6897@ultb.isc.rit.edu> kdc5072@ultb.isc.rit.edu (K.D. Colagio) writes:
><bows in Ciaran (sp?) direction>
>
>I stand corrected....sorry.  (wonder what he was reading then.....)
>
Could have been BISEXU-L (a bi LISTSERV).

-- 
 Albert Lunde         | Interfaith  |     *Y*Y*      "A branch on the
 Albert-Lunde@nwu.edu |  Bisexual   |      *Y*        tree of life"
                      |  Feminist   |.......|.........................
From: seamus@ravel.udel.edu (James G Dilmore)
Newsgroups: soc.bi
Subject: Re: Australians (was Re: accidently out)
Date: 16 Dec 92 19:26:50 GMT
Organization: University of Delaware

In article <9235120.10061@mulga.cs.mu.OZ.AU> nsn@ee.mu.OZ.AU (Nick Nicholas) writes:
>Ah, Micchelino! "Welcome to my parlour", said the spider to the fly...
>
>(And *what* a spider! And *what* a fly! :)
>
 Oh hell I hate to be this obvious but hell,
I said "welcome to my parlour", said the bider to the fly.
And dammit I am finished with finals and feeling fucking prolific today.

>
>(Beats being called Bubba, I suppose.)
>
O I don't know...I would like to be beat and be called bubba.

>>Mike, glad to be flam
>
>Nick, glad to be gray... :)

Jim, glad to be done
-- 
Jim Dilmore - seamus@brahms.udel.edu    or    dilmore@che.udel.edu 
               SILENCE = DEATH      Safe sex doesn't mean no sex.          
Give me life, Give me pain,         It just means use your imagination. 
Give me myself again.  Tori Amos.            Billy Bragg 
Newsgroups: soc.bi,soc.motss
From: shore@dinah.tc.cornell.edu (Melinda Shore)
Subject: Re: Liberty (was something relevant about CO-2 long ago...)
Organization: Cornell Theory Center
Date: Fri, 18 Dec 1992 19:48:04 GMT

In article <BzGy03.1GvM@austin.ibm.com> alan@auntbea.austin.ibm.com (Alan R. Weiss) writes:
>That leaves me wondering why you missed the point of the posting.

I didn't miss the point of the posting.  I've heard the
same "point" over and over and over and over and over and
over and over.  And what leaves me wondering is why, when
someone tells you that she feels excluded and isolated by
your choice of language, you say "tough" and go on using
the same language.  It speaks volumes about your
priorities, even if your reasons for disagreeing with her
have any validity whatsoever.

I forgot, in my previous posting, to thank all you Big
Smart Men for explaining to us Poor Addled Women exactly
how to go about achieving gender parity.  Thanks!
--
       Melinda Shore - Cornell Theory Center - shore@tc.cornell.edu
Newsgroups: soc.bi
From: dbshapco@napier.uwaterloo.ca (Brad Shapcott)
Subject: Your Name Here!
Organization: University of Waterloo
Date: Sun, 20 Dec 1992 22:48:56 GMT


Bob writes:
>
>My motivation is my intimate relationship with a woman who is looking
>into power-focused experiences.  These feel antithetical to my own
>seeking:  not wrong in themselves, but very orthoganal to my direc-
>tion.  How might these orientations be reconciled?  This would be a
>topic of keen interest to many, I'm almost sure.
>
>Bob

Not as a flame, but as some really useful suggestions about starting new
threads that *work*, I'd suggest (and I'd be delighted if others would
add to this list):

- Change the title in the header.  If you want to change the topic, change
  that for a start.

- Don't do it as a way to distract attention from an topic that
  bores/irritates you.  Any request to stop talking about a topic
  (even valid ones, like inappropriateness to the newsgroup) are
  usually ignored.  And the emergence of another good topic will
  usually snuff out an old and tired one.

- Starting a topic about 'let's talk about X' rarely work.  Not only do you
  have to kick the ball to get it going, you usually must kick it hard.
  Be specific, be personal, and be sure you are interested.  Offer up a
  part of yourself, be intimate with tens of thousands.

- Don't be facetiously controversial (a la Geraldo, Oprah, et al) because
  controversy will carry the thread.  Usually it just leads to flame fests.
  Be honest, and suprisingly authentic controversy will stem from that.


These do not apply to silly and frivilous posts, which seem to start and
survive for completely different reasons.

If you felt compelled to tell us about this person and the relationship, it
would be most likely analysed in more detail than you'd ever want (we're all
critics at heart).  "Roy's (consenting) slave" seemed to have gotten started
all over him making just such a comment, and has probably been discussed
beyond what even Roy would like (though I'm guessing).


Brad
(Who either is going for a posting record today, or really can't stomach
 working on a Sunday and is avoiding it this way.)
From: mlloyd@ocf.berkeley.edu (M. Lloyd)
Newsgroups: soc.bi
Subject: Re: Introduction, or De-Muffining
Date: 18 Dec 1992 07:50:19 GMT
Organization: U.C. Berkeley Open Computing Facility
NNTP-Posting-Host: earthquake.berkeley.edu

eleanor@cbnews.cb.att.com (eleanor.j.evans) writes:
>
>Piglet, wandering off into a corner, babbling endlessly about
>        hair and days, and cute actors, and daze....

And no doubt being entirely endearing as she goes.  I know the hair days
stuff - I eventually realised that that was why I looked at myself in
the mirror some days and felt deeply ugly, then other days found myself
catching the corner of my own eye, vain sort that I am.

hugs, Piglet.  We all have bad software days ;-)
Mike


-- 
Mike Lloyd, B0/1 h- f- t w- g+ k+ s m- e? |    "Bloody nose and burning eyes
      Retro-hippy, music nut, bi and      |  Raised in laughter to the skies"
          backrubber of devotion          |                 - Bruce Cockburn
               --The end of confusion is the beginning of death--
Newsgroups: soc.bi
From: dwells@lonestar.utsa.edu (Darren . Wells)
Subject: Re: Introduction, or De-Muffining
Organization: University of Texas at San Antonio
Date: Sat, 12 Dec 1992 18:12:35 GMT

In article <Bz33x4.FI2@news.udel.edu>
 seamus@ravel.udel.edu (James G Dilmore) writes:
>In article <1992Dec11.000518.3111@ringer.cs.utsa.edu>
 dwells@lonestar.utsa.edu (Darren . Wells) writes:
>>
>>Darren
>>(6'3", dark short hair, green eyes, bisexual and horny as ....)
>
>swoon.  Omy you aren't coming up The northeastern direction are you?

As a matter of fact . . . my birthmother lives in Fair Haven NJ, so
I get up in that part of the country quite a bit.  :)

>Green eyes? swoon again.

*blush*  Yup, it's the Irish in my blood.  :)

Darren
(pondering the mischief he is getting into . . . )
Organization: Queen's University at Kingston
Date: Sun, 20 Dec 1992 22:38:22 EST
From: Graydon <SAUNDRSG@QUCDN.QueensU.CA>
Newsgroups: soc.bi
Subject: This word 'understand'
 <s882916.724315912@otto> <1gkegaINN92n@agate.berkeley.edu>
 <iw.724435606@tosser> <1992Dec15.203046.3979@bcrka451.bnr.ca>
 <1992Dec18.133116.26960@dsg.cs.tcd.ie>
 <1992Dec18.163648.28487@bcrka451.bnr.ca>

I've got a semantics question - what Under the Tree do you people
mean by 'understand'?

I can't understand *anyone* in the same sense as I understand myself,
because I'm already in here and there isn't room in my head for all
of them.  (Never mind the I/O problem!)

So, do you mean 'have a sufficent commonality of experience that the
concepts in question don't take a lot of explaining'?

Or 'exhibit empathy and compasion for the particular hurt in question'?

Or 'willing to try to comprehend why something hurts'?

This seems to get into what people want from other people, too, which
same is a *deep* swamp.

And no, I don't have a general case opinion on where the line between
'the insensitive git should have noticed' and 'if it hurts, say so' goes;
just that whichever line there is is person specific.

Graydon
From: s882916@otto (Vikki POLLARD)
Newsgroups: soc.bi
Subject: Re: anti-bi's
Date: 16 Dec 92 07:10:55 GMT
Organization: RMIT Computer Centre
NNTP-Posting-Host: otto.bf.rmit.oz.au


I have never had hostility about being bisexual directed at me from the lesbian communiyt. I think it is a bit of an urban myth about lesbians being anti-male. All my lesbian frineds really like my husband and invite him to anything that isn't only for women. But then again I'm being totally subjective.
It's interesting to note that I have received a bit of shit from gay men. I have been refused entry to a mixed night club 'cos there were too many of "them"
in there. I think the boucner was referring to women. I have also been abused by men in there.

Who said there was solidarity in the Queer culture???!!
Vikki
From: sara@festival.ed.ac.uk (Swamp Thing)
Newsgroups: soc.bi
Subject: Re: Australians (was Re: accidently out)
Date: 17 Dec 92 23:09:26 GMT

idx009@cck.coventry.ac.uk (the Crisco Kid) writes:

>No.  Please, who is Tori Amos?


What?!?  I can't believe I'm reading this, from the fingers of the
Crisco Kid at that.  Oh dear oh dear oh dear.  Mebbe I'll send you my
review, if I've still got it.

Sara
Newsgroups: soc.bi
From: gtoal@pizzabox.demon.co.uk (Graham Toal)
Subject: Re: See Roy?
Keywords: Here I am!
Organization: Cuddlehogs Anonymous
Date: Sun, 20 Dec 1992 01:24:28 GMT

In article <1h0cksINNpi3@agate.berkeley.edu> rsr@soda.berkeley.edu (Roy S. Rapoport) writes:
:-roy, wondering if it's time to reclaim the word idiot.

Sure!  We'll all support you :-)

G

Newsgroups: soc.bi
From: TXK025@maccvm.corp.mot.com (Eddie Chandler)
Subject: Re: Help! I've been killfiled and I can't get out!
Organization: Motorola
Date: 16 Dec 1992 08:01:37 CST

------------------------- Original Article -------------------------
Path:
schbbs!mothost!ftpbox!uunet!olivea!spool.mu.edu!agate!soda.berkeley.edu!rsr
From: rsr@soda.berkeley.edu (Roy S. Rapoport)
Newsgroups: soc.bi
Subject: Re: Help! I've been killfiled and I can't get out!
Date: 16 Dec 92 09:22:06 GMT
Organization: U.C. Berkeley, CS Undergraduate Association
NNTP-Posting-Host: soda.berkeley.edu

<banter deleted>
--
Roy S. Rapoport     internet: rsr@soda.berkeley.edu      bitnet: rsrsoda@ucbocf
"What I used to think is me ... is just a faded memory ... " -NIN
DISCLAIMER:  I speak for the University of California at Berkeley.  Rrrright.


 Sounds like this Dan dude is a jumped-up prize geek to me!!

 Go on Roy, soc(k) it to him!!


Eddie.
From: kenj@kambo.esd.sgi.com (Ken ``Blackfur'' Jones)
Newsgroups: soc.bi
Subject: Request: Bad coming out stories
Date: 18 Dec 1992 01:03:17 GMT
Organization: Silicon Graphics, Inc.  Mountain View, CA
NNTP-Posting-Host: kambo.esd.sgi.com

A couple of weeks ago, I announced that I've been given the opportunity
to write a column focusing on bisexuality for a new south-San Francisco
Bay-area GLBO* newspaper.

For my first column, I'm considering examining the negative reactions
of some in the gay and lesbian communities to bisexuals who come out
to them.  I'd like to sucker my readers in with some quotes that sound
as though they were from homophobic persons and then reveal that they
are actual quotes from gay men and lesbians referring to bisexuals.  My
goal is to try to illustrate the parallels between gay men and lesbians
coming out to non-supportive straights and bisexuals coming out to
non-supportive members fo the gay and lesbian community.  I hope to
convince some people that rejecting bisexuals is not only "not good"
on general principle, but also undercuts the potential strength of
the GLB movement.

A tall order, but I think I can put together a decent column on that
topic.  And I don't expect one essay to change the world: this *is,*
after all, an ongoing column.  (Assuming the paper doesn't fold,) I'll
have plenty of time to develop this theme in later issues.

Anyway, like I mentioned earlier, I'd like to lead off with some quotes
from gay men and lesbians who ridiculed or rejected you when you came
out to them as bisexual.  I've seen some stories posted here in the
past, and I've saved a couple of the more recent ones.  But I'd like
some more quotes that I can use.  (All quotes and stories will be
unattributed in my column.  If you give me permission, I _might_ use
your first name or your initials.)

An example of the type quotes I'd like to lead off with:

    "You're just going through a phase."
    "You just need to meet the right woman [or man]."
    "You're disgusting!"

Examples of stories I'd like to spotlight:

    "Friends" who dumped you when you came out to them
    Support groups or counselors that denied you or verbally attacked
        you when you came out as bisexual
    Organizations that do not allow you to participate fully or refuse
        to provide services to the bisexual community

- Ken Jones  kenj@sgi.com
Newsgroups: soc.bi
From: jcarroll@bach.udel.edu (Royal J Carroll)
Subject: Re: NO question about Stephen M. Conley!
Organization: University of Delaware
Date: Mon, 14 Dec 1992 09:25:41 GMT

In article <1992Dec10.160431.15268@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu> sconley@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (Stephen M Conley) writes:
>In article <ByypLM.1nL@news.udel.edu> seamus@bach.udel.edu (James G Dilmore)
>writes:
>
>>>Steve Conley                       "Jupiter:  America's dairy land!" --MST3K
>>                   Cause he's a ninja - tom
>
>You _like_ the ninja one, don't you?  :-)  I wish I could remember more 
>lines from it.  I've _got_ to start taping that show.
>
>Steve  (BI!)                  "I'm HUGE!" --MST3K, _Cave Dwellers_


One of the most memorable MST3K lines for me was, "You could find yourself
living in a shogun shack."

-James

-- 
You touch my eyes and hypnotize and slip inside my heart      | jcarroll@
I wait for this forever but we always fall apart	      | brahms.udel.edu
You want to hold me closer, and secretly entice		      -----------------
You take the size of shawdowed men, and punish me with kisses every night
Newsgroups: soc.bi
From: idx009@cck.coventry.ac.uk (the Crisco Kid)
Subject: Re: This Whole Penis Thing ...
Organization: Eris's Restaurant
Date: Fri, 11 Dec 1992 20:50:08 GMT

In article <iw.724014255@tosser> iw@tosser.Rational.COM (The_Devine_Dolly) writes:
>Good point!  Still you have to be careful with teeth and tearing the latex.
>And with silicon dildos you have to be careful of nicking them with your
>teeth because they can crack afterwards :-(

Silicon dildoes?  I thought it was gallium arsenide that had the dreadful
fragility problem.  Still, you can run GaAs dildoes so much faster :)

		Kay (who once went into an electronics
		supply shop stoned and asked for three
		large red light-emitting dildoes.  At
		least the cute assistant grinned...)
-- 
6'2", dark short hair, blue eyes, bisexual and horny as ....
Kay Dekker, Dept of Industrial Design, Coventry University, Coventry UK
37 Old Winnings Road, Keresley Village, Coventry   |B0 f t+ g++ k++! s+ e r p!
Phone: +44 203 838668 (work) +44 203 337865 (home) |Deflowerer-of-innocents