HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: fheitkamp@desire.wright.edu
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
Subject: Re: A Commodore Engineer speaks out.
Date: 8 Oct 92 12:14:00 GMT
 <u894776.718428857@bruny> <35618@cbmvax.commodore.com> <9775@cbmger.de.so.commodore.com>
Organization: Wright State University

In article <9775@cbmger.de.so.commodore.com>, peterk@cbmger.de.so.commodore.com (Dr Peter Kittel Germany) writes:
> In article <35618@cbmvax.commodore.com> grr@cbmvax.commodore.com (George Robbins) writes:
> 
> Hmm, sorry, but I claim this very argument always for Commodore! We do
> have the broadest palette of different computer worlds, with our three
> lines of C64, Amiga, and PCs! Ok, Apple offers more Mac models than we
> have Amiga models, but don't forget the even bigger picture.
> 
	Be careful Peter, Commodore US won't admitt they make PCs.  Infact
	I don't think you can buy one here anymore.  I was considering
	buying a PC 40 when I finally settled on the A2000 but that was 
	2 1/2 years ago.

	The local Amiga dealer here says he had a deal worked out to sell
	some Commodore PC clones to a local enterprise but when he tried
	to get the PCs from Commodore US they said: PCs?  We don't make
	PCs.
> -- 
> Best regards, Dr. Peter Kittel  // E-Mail to \\  Only my personal opinions...
> Commodore Frankfurt, Germany  \X/ {uunet|pyramid|rutgers}!cbmvax!cbmger!peterk
Fred Heitkamp,  ** Not an organization.  My opinions only **
Xref: sparky comp.sys.amiga.advocacy:26655 comp.sys.amiga.graphics:6719
From: mark@westford.ccur.com (Mark Thompson)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy,comp.sys.amiga.graphics
Subject: Re: Visiona 24-bit Graphics Board
Date: 14 Oct 92 17:27:08 GMT
Article-I.D.: westford.1992Oct14.172708.9013
Organization: Radiant Image Productions, Merrimack NH.

In article <1992Oct10.172954.2077@spartan.ac.BrockU.CA> tmc@spartan.ac.BrockU.CA (Tim Ciceran) writes:
>Does anyone have any additional information concerning the Visiona board from
>Spectronics?
> o Inmos G300 GaAS graphics coprocessor operating at up to 135 MHz

Yeah, I do. { *Here comes the graphics hardware police* }
The Inmos G300 is NOT a graphics coprocessor as these people would like you
to believe but is in fact nothing more than a very fancy video timing
controller. In their ad they touted how their board was so much better
because they had a graphics coprocessor and other boards are just dumb
frame buffers. Well with nothing more than a G300 on the Visiona, it also
is just a dumb frame buffer.
%~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~%
%      `       '        Mark Thompson                 CONCURRENT COMPUTER  %
% --==* RADIANT *==--   mark@westford.ccur.com        Principal Graphics   %
%      ' Image `        ...!uunet!masscomp!mark       Hardware Architect   %
%     Productions       (508)392-2480 (603)424-1829   & General Nuisance   %
%                                                                          %
 ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Xref: sparky comp.sys.amiga.advocacy:26795 comp.sys.amiga.graphics:6769 comp.sys.amiga.hardware:17330 comp.sys.amiga.misc:15256 comp.sys.amiga.programmer:14585 comp.sys.mac.advocacy:1707
From: sevigny@vlsi.polymtl.ca (Benoit Sevigny)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy,comp.sys.amiga.graphics,comp.sys.amiga.hardware,comp.sys.amiga.misc,comp.sys.amiga.programmer,comp.sys.mac.advocacy
Subject: Re: Catching RBUTTON before Intuition
Date: 15 Oct 92 16:41:27 GMT
Organization: Ecole Polytechnique de Montreal

In article <35881@cbmvax.commodore.com> peter@cbmvax.commodore.com (Peter Cherna) writes:
>You may wish to ALSO use RMBTRAP if you need to hear right-mouse-button events,
>but that's not enough.
>
>>\XX/  Benoit W Sevigny, software engineering student, sevigny@info.polymtl.ca
>
>     Peter
>--
>Peter Cherna, User Interface Development Group, Commodore-Amiga, Inc.
>{uunet|rutgers}!cbmvax!peter    peter@cbmvax.commodore.com
>My opinions do not necessarily represent the opinions of my employer.
>"I believe it's bad luck to be superstitious."

BTW, will there ever be a generalised icon system in Intuition?  I am
writing an application that makes use of icons with a Workbench-feel (but I
don't want to have my icons _in_ the Workbench!).  I feel I am reinventing
the wheel.  My library can also be interfaced with the Workbench (that way,
I can drop files in my custom icons).  Any hope about that kind of library?
--
-=*                                                                         *=-
   __ Skipping every ?86 numbered lines in your code will remove all your
__/// remaining bugs and bottlenecks 8^)
\XX/  Benoit W Sevigny, software engineering student, sevigny@info.polymtl.ca
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
From: pss1@kepler.unh.edu (Paul S Secinaro)
Subject: Re: Its a sad sad day...
Organization: University of New Hampshire  -  Durham, NH
Date: Mon, 12 Oct 1992 12:14:52 GMT

In article <1992Oct11.014616.4848@cs.olemiss.edu> skip@cs.olemiss.edu (Skip Sauls) writes:
>>I don't know all th ins and outs of NT, but from what I have read, it will
>>offer all that UNIX provides, with the exception of remote displays.  Plusses
>>to NT include Windows, DOS and probable OS/2 compatibility.    
>
>UNIX provides remote displays?  I always thought that the X Window System
>provided that.  NT sounds pretty nice, but they're crippling it if they
>are including DOS and Windows compatability.

If anything, it is the DOS/Windows compatibility that will be
crippled, because NT has very tight security and will not allow DOS
programs to have free run of the machine.  From all I've seen they are
making a real effort to have a fairly clean slate with NT, even if it
means sacrificing some DOS/Win compatibility.  Read the latest BYTE
for more info.

NT is designed to have installable API's, so if a particular API is
crippled, it doesn't necessarily affect the system as a whole.  On the
other hand, I'm sure some design decisions were made in NT's kernel to
make Windows compatibility easier, but whether that has any bad effect
remains to be seen.

>Which means that you and all the poor slobs who are buying the cheap-ass
>clones shouldn't worry about NT.

You can get a "cheap ass" DX2-66 that will probably do a good job with
NT, especially with VL-bus/accelerated graphics, though I doubt if it
would be blazing fast.

>  The only way that most Clone users are
>going to get NT on their machines is by stealing it from work like they
>do everything else.

How do you pirate a 600MB CD-ROM?

Paul


-- 
Paul Secinaro
pss1@kepler.unh.edu
Synthetic Vision and Pattern Analysis Laboratory
UNH Dept. of Electrical and Computer Engineering
From: 2ftqkiln@kuhub.cc.ukans.edu
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
Subject: 4000 looks, why?
Date: 14 Oct 92 00:17:42 CDT
Organization: University of Kansas Academic Computing Services

OK, the 4000 sounds good and all,
in fact, now that my 3000 is officially DEAD,
i might get a 4000, but i have a suggestion 
for Commodore for the other systems that they
introduce soon, Please don't make them as
UGLY as the 4000.  My 3000 is dead but it still 
looks good, the 4000 looks gross. Ok i know that
exterior looks shouldn't be what matters, its the
insides that matter right? Well just as in life, the 
answer is SORT OF.  I'd buy the 4000 for the insides
but it sure would be nice if it looked good too.
Well, thats my shallow .02 worth. CIAO!
From: bloc1469@ee.ee.uwm.edu (Gregory R. Block)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
Subject: Re: COMMODORE - HERE'S A CLUE
Date: 8 Oct 1992 21:02:11 GMT
Organization: Electrical Engineering Dept. University of Wisconsin - Milwaukee
NNTP-Posting-Host: 129.89.2.33

In article <torrie.718568457@Xenon.Stanford.EDU> torrie@cs.stanford.edu (Evan Torrie) writes:
>bloc1469@ee.ee.uwm.edu (Gregory R. Block) writes:
>>Is that Motorola's price, mass quantity?  You can't look into a
>>magazine and get the price from Mahatma's Discount Chips, you know.  ;)
>
>  I think I've posted this before:
>
>  From Microprocessor Report, Vol 5 #21, November 20 1991:
>
>"It is still much more expensive than the 68030, however, which
>sells for a remarkable $40 in thousands for the 25MHz version.
>Compare this to the 25MHz 386, which provides somewhat
>less power for $156"

Thanks for the clarification.  I just _KNEW_ that the 030 was cheaper
than the 020, I was kind of surprised to hear that somehow, it was the
other way around.  Also, again, choosing an 020 as a base processor is
bad for another reason:  Motorola says not to use it in new systems.
:)

Greg

--
(: (: (: (: Have you overdosed on smileys today?  Why NOT!?! :) :) :) :)
(: 	"Yeah, if improving the system is screwing the user base,     :)
(:	 you all need to be screwed more often." -Dave Haynie	      :)
(: (: (: (: (: (: (: (: (: (: (: (: (:) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :)
From: hyc@hanauma.jpl.nasa.gov (Howard Chu)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
Subject: Re: Atari Falcon030
Date: 14 Oct 92 22:46:06 GMT
Article-I.D.: elroy.1992Oct14.224606.7089
Distribution: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
Organization: SAR Systems Development & Processing, JPL

In article <1992Oct09.143324.26114@eng.umd.edu> gerrymon@eng.umd.edu (Gerry Mon) writes:
>Well, I finally got a chance to play around to with a real Falcon 030 at
>my local dealer.  These were developer units and they had a bunch of
>them for the upcoming WAACE Atarifest show.
>
>Anyway, I peeked at some of the preliminary developer documentation
>and according to them, the memory cycle time of the Falcon is four 16
>Mhz machine cycles.  I guess that works out to 250 nsec.  Is that good
>for a 16 Mhz 68030?  In addition, the BLiTTER and DMA takes five 16
>Mhz cycles.

4 cycles is the minimum for a 68000, it's kind of poor for a 68030.
With a synchronous transfer (the 68000 has an asynchronous bus interface,
the 68030 can do both async and sync) the 68030 could do memory accesses
in as little as 2 cycles. It can also use burst mode to fill its
cache lines, which uses a synchronous transfer but grabs 4 longwords
instead of just one. In this case, the first word still takes 2 cycles
minimum, but each successive word only needs 1 cycle to transfer.

It seems that the 68030 in the Falcon is only allowed to do asynchronous
transfers, or that the memory being used is too slow, or both. Even an
asynchronous transfer should only require 3 cycles, not 4. The spec you
quote is unfortunate, it means that the 68030's performance has been
cut by at least a factor of 2 (compared to the best performance attainable
for a given clock rate). I would expect that one of the first 3rd party
upgrades for the Falcon will be a private-bus memory expansion board,
similar to the TT's fast RAM.

Of course, that's just my opinion. It seems that Atari isn't really
aiming the Falcon at flat-out high performance, otherwise they would
have included the fast-RAM in the main design. Then again, the presence
of two different types of memory in the TT is one of the things that
contributes to its ST compatibility problems, and the fact that all of
the Falcon's RAM is treated as normal ST RAM contributes to its higher
level of ST software compatibility.

-- 
  -- Howard Chu @ Jet Propulsion Laboratory, Pasadena, CA

All true wisdom is conveyed in one-line witticisms.
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
From: easton@zds-oem.zds.com (Jeff Easton)
Subject: Re: Its a sad sad day...
Organization: Zenith Data Systems, OEM Systems Engineering
Date: Mon, 12 Oct 1992 14:06:19 GMT

In article <Ace.02sw@auilcs0.UUCP> Ace@auilcs0.UUCP (James Knowlton) writes:
>In article <1992Oct8.220815.22670@newshost.unh.edu> ggg@kepler.unh.edu (Gregory G Greene) writes:
>
>>-> That's funny, since my 486sx-20 runs (crawls, rather) when I'm using Windows.
>>-> Which is as rarely as possible.  I'll take the speed of my A3000-16 running
>>-> Workbench anytime, thanks.
>>
>> 	You're 486sx or your graphics card must be terrible then.  I'm
>>    running WIN-OS2 ( the same thing as Win3.0 ) on a 33/486 and its pretty
>>    fast.  I'm using the Diamond Speedstar Plus graphics card also, which
>>    isn't exactly state of the art these days.  I can't believe that an 486sx
>>    would be that much slower then my 33/486.
>
>I can.  For one it's running at a slower clock speed. And for two it's an sx.
>Iv'e used a 486sx running windows, and it IS slow. I'm with him - i'll take
>a 3000/16 running Workbench anytime, thanks.

  Why would a 486sx make any difference?  The only thing its missing is
the math coprocessor.  Windows doesnt use it anyway.

>      //// James Knowlton - President & CEO - Alternate Reality Video Graphics

-- 
  ___  ___    Jeff Easton             easton@zds-oem.zds.com
 (__  (__     Zenith Data Systems     j.easton@mi04.zds.com
 ___) ___)    Saint Joseph, Mich.     easton@andrews.edu
Monte Carlo   Z-LS/20 - Choice of a quite generation

Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
From: es1@cunixb.cc.columbia.edu (Ethan Solomita)
Subject: Re: COMMODORE - HERE'S A CLUE
Organization: Columbia U., New York City
Reply-To: es1@cunixb.cc.columbia.edu (Ethan Solomita)
Date: Sat, 10 Oct 1992 03:06:58 GMT
X-Posted-From: cunixb.cc.columbia.edu
NNTP-Posting-Host: sol.ctr.columbia.edu

In article <1ah1cnINNdmq@uwm.edu> gblock@csd4.csd.uwm.edu (Gregory R Block) writes:
>dnavas@oracle.uucp (David Navas) writes:
>
>: As long as I'm ranting here, I remember when Ethan (you all remember Ethan,
>:right?) went to DevCon last Sept.  I had thought to myself (and might have tol
>
>Yeah, I remember Ethan...  God, I seem old, don't I...  It's not like
>he DIED, anyways.
>
	I'm most certainly NOT dead!

8)

	-- Ethan


purgamentum init, exit purgamentum
From: jdutka@wpi.WPI.EDU (John Dutka)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
Subject: Marc Barrett Filter
Date: 8 Oct 1992 00:52:56 GMT
Organization: Worcester Polytechnic Institute
NNTP-Posting-Host: wpi.wpi.edu

Some output from the Marc Barrett filter program:

Article 28225 of comp.sys.amiga.hardware:
From: Ace@auilcs0.UUCP (James Knowlton)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
Subject: Re: Its a sad sad day...
Distribution: world
X-NewsSoftware: GRn 1.16e (7/4/92) by Mike Schwartz & Michael B. Smith
Date: 10 Oct 92 11:54:49 PST
Organization: Alternate Reality Video Graphics

In article <1992Oct8.220815.22670@newshost.unh.edu> ggg@kepler.unh.edu (Gregory G Greene) writes:

>-> That's funny, since my 486sx-20 runs (crawls, rather) when I'm using Windows.
>-> Which is as rarely as possible.  I'll take the speed of my A3000-16 running
>-> Workbench anytime, thanks.
>
> 	You're 486sx or your graphics card must be terrible then.  I'm
>    running WIN-OS2 ( the same thing as Win3.0 ) on a 33/486 and its pretty
>    fast.  I'm using the Diamond Speedstar Plus graphics card also, which
>    isn't exactly state of the art these days.  I can't believe that an 486sx
>    would be that much slower then my 33/486.

I can.  For one it's running at a slower clock speed. And for two it's an sx.
Iv'e used a 486sx running windows, and it IS slow. I'm with him - i'll take
a 3000/16 running Workbench anytime, thanks.


      //// James Knowlton - President & CEO - Alternate Reality Video Graphics
     //// Voice Line: (916)967-4608 Data Line: (916)967-4608 24hrs 2.4kBps
    //// USMail: 7061 Madison Ave #E8, Fair Oaks, CA, 95628, USA
\\\X/// Usenet: uunet!csusac.ecs.csus.edu!citrus!amilink!auilcs0!Ace
 \XXX/ Internet: amilink!auilcs0!Ace@citrus.sac.ca.us
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
From: barrett@iastate.edu (Marc N Barrett)
Subject: Re: Jokes on Politics... kill if you don't want to read it (Re: Clinton/Gore (Was: A4000 graphics)
Organization: Iowa State University, Ames, IA
Date: Fri, 16 Oct 1992 19:59:18 GMT

In article <1992Oct16.053025.12022@ugle.unit.no> eyvind@Lise.Unit.NO (Eyvind Bernhardsen) writes:
>mb writes:
>
>>>   BTW, Clinton wants to raise taxes sky-high on foreign companies that do
>>>business in the U.S.  Has it occurred to you that Commodore is a foreign
>                                                    ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>>>company?
>  ^^^^^^^^
>WHAT?  C='s a foreign (I take it you mean non-US) company?  What's THAT supposed
>to mean?  (You're destroying the foundations of my faith here...).  Anyway, what
>nationality IS C=?

   It means exactly what I said.  Commodore is a Bahamian company, not a U.S.
company.  Commodore is officially incorporated in the Bahamas.

>     //|           I want AGA!  NOW! | DISCLAIMER: I don't HAVE opinions.
>    // |                             | I just repeat what everyone else says!
>\\ //--|miga: There can be only one. |
> \X/   |         eyvind@lise.unit.no | Aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaargh!  Ackpth!

---
| Marc Barrett -MB-  |  email: barrett@iastate.edu
--------------------------------------------------
From: grr@cbmvax.commodore.com (George Robbins)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
Subject: Re: The return of the 040 vs 486 thread..Re: My next machine: Amiga or PC Clone? Help me out.
Date: 8 Oct 92 22:42:19 GMT
Reply-To: grr@cbmvax.commodore.com (George Robbins)
Organization: Commodore, West Chester, PA

In article <1992Oct8.114532.13316@newshost.unh.edu> pss1@kepler.unh.edu (Paul S Secinaro) writes:
> In article <35650@cbmvax.commodore.com> grr@cbmvax.commodore.com (George Robbins) writes:
> >> I'm aware that PCLK is 50MHz.  A PLL is used to synchronize PCLK and
> >> BCLK internally, not to double PCLK.  But hey, don't take my word for
> >> it...I thought the same as you did the last time this issue surfaced,
> >> but then a Moto employee (Skipper Smith, I believe?) posted to the
> >> contrary.  I have no reason to doubt his information.
> >
> >This sounds confused.
> >
> >Motorola requires and externally generated PCLK and BCLK.  The two are
> >required to be synchonous and very closely aligned, so I doubt that there
> >is any PLL involved in the chip.
> >
> >Motorola specifies the part speed by the BCLK or PCLK/2 frequency.
> 
> On the specific issue of the PLL, according to the MC68040 User's
> Manual (section 8.1 on Bus Characterstics):
> 
> "...The PCLK signal exactly twice the frequency of BCLK and is
> internally phase-locked to BCLK and distributed throughout the device
> to generate timing for all logic blocks.  The BCLK signal is only used
> as the reference signal for the PLL which synchronizes the PCLK..."
> 
> So apparently they really are using a PLL to insure that the two
> signals are aligned.  You mention that the specs require PCLK and BCLK
> to be closely aligned even before entering the chip.  I'm not an
> expert on PLL's, especially as they relate to digital circuitry, but
> it seems to me that some degree of pre-alignment would be necessary in
> order to stay within the capture/lock-in range of the PLL.

Motorola has a clock phase delay compensation scheme that they offer
in one of there ASIC families that can be considered a PLL.  It basically
selects a tap on a string of inverter delays in a timing chain to null
out the skew between two signals.  This does provide phase locking with
a feedback loop (PLL), but unless the delay chain is long, you can't make
it do frequency doubling or some of the other tricks expected of a
classicall analog PLL function block.

I would guess they are using some varient of this scheme in the '040, if
anything, but the tightness of the clock input specifications suggests
that it doesn't provide a very great accommodation range.

It is fun to harass the Motorola folks by claiming that the Intel internal
clock doubling is inherently better and when are they going to catch up 8).
From: djs55750@ih-nxt01.cso.uiuc.edu (David John Schulz)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
Subject: Re: ##### A1200 RELEASED NOVEMBER ##########
Date: 16 Oct 92 19:54:08 GMT
Article-I.D.: news.Bw8CM9.3xJ
Organization: University of Illinois at Urbana

In article <26932@castle.ed.ac.uk> barryb@castle.ed.ac.uk (Barry A T  
Brown) writes:
|
|
|
|
| I`m Pleased to say Commodore are finally getting there act together in a  
big way  here in Europe .
|Although the A4000 has been annonunced in Europe it has no immediate sign  
of appearing BUT.... Commodore are releasing the A1200 in November which  
has almost the same technical spec    ie. AA chip set, High Density drives  
etc....

I was under the impression that CBM was not releasing the A1200 or rather  
that there was no such thing as the A1200.  Looks like I'm wrong then?   
Can anyone else confirm this, and where are the spec sheets on the  
machine?  I'd venture to guess that this would be cheaper than the A4000  
(perhaps even look prettier?). 

--
==========================================================================
|  David J. Schulz                     __ "Do what you can with          |
|   djs55750@dcl-nxt01.cso.uiuc.edu   / /  what you have where you are." |
| "Before you see the light      __  / /                                 |
|  you must die."                \ \/ /             -Teddy Roosevelt     |
|          -Slayer                \__/                                   |
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
From: fihsu@athena.mit.edu (Hsu I-wei)
Subject: Re: REAL FALCON 030 SPECS
Organization: Massachusetts Institute of Technology
Date: Fri, 9 Oct 1992 10:05:38 GMT

In article <david.030q@ariane.cam.org>, david@ariane.cam.org (David Lebel) writes:
|>    have you ever played with a PeeCee w/o an HD? It sucks. Same thing hold
|> true for the Amiga, or ANY SERIOUS computer. This whole thread is a plain
|> joke.

Oh, I don't know..  I like my Apple IIe with 2 floppy drives!  :)

|> 
|> -- 
|> +---------------------------------------------------------------------------+
|> |                David Lebel      ///  Let me hear you                      |
|> |   Ariane Development Group     ///   Make decisions                       |
|> |       david@ariane.cam.org    ///    Without your television              |
|> |    lebeld@jsp.umontreal.ca \\X//     Let me hear you speaking just for me |
|> |  (514) 343-6532 ext. 44644  \X/               - Martin Gore, Depeche Mode |
|> +---------------------------------------------------------------------------+

Francis
From: fheitkamp@desire.wright.edu
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
Subject: Re: ##### A1200 RELEASED NOVEMBER ##########
Date: 16 Oct 92 06:56:44 EST
Organization:  Wright State University 

In article <1992Oct15.213550.17686@ugle.unit.no>, eyvind@Lise.Unit.NO (Eyvind Bernhardsen) writes:
> barryb@castle.ed.ac.uk (Barry A T Brown) writes:
> 
>> appearing BUT.... Commodore are releasing the A1200 in November which has almost
>> the same technical spec    ie. AA chip set, High Density drives etc....
> 
> Thankyouthankyouthankyouthankyou...  There *IS* a God!
> 
> Now what does this wonder look like? :)
> 

	I bet it will look suspiciously like the A4000.  Did you ever notice
	the A4000 has little removable-looking name plate that could have
	1200/020 on it rather easily :)

> (Actually, can anyone verify this - I don't mean to be cynical, but someone else 
> said that C= had dropped the A1200...)
> 
> -Eyvind
> 
> -- 
>      //|           I want AGA!  NOW! | DISCLAIMER: I don't HAVE opinions.
>     // |                             | I just repeat what everyone else says!
> \\ //--|miga: There can be only one. |
>  \X/   |         eyvind@lise.unit.no | Aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaargh!  Ackpth!
Fred Heitkamp,  ** Not an organization.  My opinions only **

Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy