From: fritz@fc.sde.hp.com (Gary Fritz)
Newsgroups: misc.consumers
Subject: Bread makers: recommendations?
Date: 8 Jan 1993 21:00:02 GMT
Organization: HP SESD, Fort Collins, CO
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Richard Foulk (richard@pegasus.com) wrote:
: I've had a DAK machine for several years and I recommend it.  I use
: mine a lot and will buy another when/if I ever wear this one out.
: One of my friends bought her DAK Turbo 2 (or whatever it's called, I
: forgot) as reconditioned and is very satisfied.  

Geeze.  How many times do I have to say this?  I **KNOW** lots of people
have had no problems with their DAKs.  The fact that you and your friend
were happy illustrates the fact.  It DOES NOT prove that DAKs overall
are reliable, or rather, as reliable as non-DAKs.

Given that I've seen, over the past 2+ years,
  - Many happy DAK reports
  - Many UNhappy DAK reports
  - Many happy non-DAK reports
  - NO (zero, zilch, nada, none) UNhappy non-DAK reports -- 
    until the recent posting from gjsnews@cbnewsj.cb.att.com

 ...wouldn't that tend to indicate to you that DAKs might have a
higher incidence of unhappy owners than non-DAK machines?

: I can get gooey centers with my machine too if I screw up the recipe
: badly enough.  Bet I can do it with any of the other machines too.

Of course you can.  You can do it baking bread with your oven, too.
(Leave out a minor ingredient like "flour" and you might end up with some 
very strange bread. :-)  That has absolutely nothing to do with what I said.

There were several recipes (notably Lemon bread) that we enjoyed a lot,
and I had made at least 6-8 times in the first 3-4 months we owned our 
Welbilt.  Each time it was wonderful, light, flawless bread.  I didn't
mess with the recommended recipe at all.

Suddenly, after about 3-4 months, EACH AND EVERY LOAF of Lemon bread
was largely unbaked.  I made no change in the recipe.  In addition,
a number of other DAK/Welbilt owners reported the SAME problem, ALSO
after roughly 3-4 months.  Doesn't this sound a teensy bit suspicious
to you?  It is NOT the result of my "screwing up the recipe".  Yeesh.

: >  - The people who had problems with DAK/Welbilt machines have had virtually
: >    NO satisfaction from the DAK and Welbilt "customer service" organizations,
: I had a problem initially and got fairly good response.  

You are correct, I overstated here.  The way I worded this makes it sound
like ALL people were dissatisfied.  That's not correct.  A *large percentage*
of people I heard about were dissatisfied.

I gave up on getting mine fixed, and now seldom make bread with my
machine because I got tired of ruined loaves.  A recent poster said 
he went through FOUR DAKs (? Welbilts? I forget) before giving up and 
going to a Hitachi.  I remember hearing about a number of others.  
If you choose to ignore this information, that's your choice.  
Prospective buyers may appreciate it.

It absolutely amazes me how hostile-ly (?) people react to the hint
that possibly the model they bought might have some problems.
It's not like I'm trying to insult your intelligence or savvy or something.
I'm just trying to pass on the empirical experience of some people
on the net for use by people considering buying a machine.
I acknowledged up front that many people are happy with their DAKs,
so what's the point in insisting that you're happy with your DAK!?
The important and useful data is that many net people (and, by my observation,
a much higher percentage than non-DAK net people) are NOT happy with their DAK.

: I followed the same mailing lists and newsgroups and this claim of
: `frequent complaints' is an exaggeration, in my opinion.

They didn't happen every day or anything like that.  But there was
an extended, ongoing discussion in the bread-machine list, involving 
many DAK/Welbilt owners, concerning "what do do about gooey DAK bread",
and it resurfaced a number of times.  There were also several recurring
complaints about DAK/Welbilt customer service and lack of satisfaction.
Go back and look through the list archives.  How many complaints of ANY kind 
do you find about non-DAK machines?  (Offhand I don't remember ANY, 
but there may have been a few.)

: I make lots of bread in my old DAK machine and it's still cranking.  

Great.  You're happy.  I'd like to be happy.  Want to trade machines??  

Actually I'd rather have a non-DAK, even if yours works "fine".  In my 
personal experience and the experience of several others I've talked to,
bread baked in DAK/Welbilt machines is inferior to bread baked in other 
machines.  (I've compared the identical recipe in Panasonics, Hitachis, 
and Zojirushis.  I felt the crumb and flavor were noticably superior 
in the non-DAKs.  One Welbilt-owner friend says his bread is markedly better 
if he kneads the dough in the Welbilt and bakes it in the oven, but
I haven't tried that yet.)  But I'd take a DAK that works "fine" over 
my Welbilt that doesn't.

Gary
Newsgroups: misc.consumers