From: lsonko@pearl.tufts.edu (THE COLORS. THE COLORS.)
Newsgroups: sci.misc
Subject: Re: Microwaves in a microwave oven?
Date: 6 Apr 92 18:03:00 GMT
Followup-To: sci.misc
Organization: Tufts University - Medford, MA
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41



My end of the news feed was broken for a few days.  It is back up.
This here are some letters that ornitz@kodak.com and I have been exchanging. 


from oritz@kodak.com

>You need to go to your library and do a lot more research.
>
>Microwave ovens (at least home models) operate at 2.45 GHz.  They do not
>depend on the resonant frequency of water at all.  The closest resonant 
>frequency of water is around 24 GHz.

well excuuuuuuse me.

I pulled the 2.35 GHz figure from memory out of a radio handbook that I had
only read once....   excuse me for being off slightly..   I don't think the
asker really cares that much (or at all, for that matter).  I didn't see you
(obviously a microwave genius) responding to the inquiry.

And if you want to get picky... apparently you do....  
your statement "Microwave ovens (at least home models) operate at 2.45 GHz" is
misleading and shows how little you actually know about the subject.
All microwave ovens operate at 2.45 Ghz because that is the only frequency that
the FCC will allow them to broadcast at.

You know, the more I hear "2.45 GHz" the less I think you are right. I will
check my source.  $5 says it is 2.35 Ghz.


You say yourself that "the closest resonant frequency of water is about 24 GHz"
If you would look just a little closer at that, you might notice that 24 GHz is
almost a multiple of 2.45 GHz.  Wouldn't you say that a 2.45GHz transmitter
would do almost as good a job as a 24.5 GHz transmitter at RESONATING WATER
MOLECULES at about 1/1000 the cost???

"They do not depend on the resonant frequency of water at all"
gimme a break! 24GHz... 2.45 GHz... if I were a water molecule and was
surrounded by a 2.45 GHz signal, I'd start to get pretty hot under the collar.
Matter of fact, I am hot under the collar right now!


>
>Please stop spreading this false information on the net.

screw you

:-)

>                                        Barry
>
>PS:  If you want references, start with "Microwave Spectroscopy" by C. H.
>Townes and A. L. Schawlow.  And yes, this is the same Charles Townes of maser
>and laser fame.

I'm glad to hear that Charles Townes wrote a book.




>
> -----------------
>|  ___  ________  |       Dr. Barry L. Ornitz          WA4VZQ
>| |  / /        | |       Eastman Kodak Company
>| | / /         | |       Eastman Chemical Company Research Laboratories
>| |< < K O D A K| |       Process Instrumentation Research Laboratory
>| | \ \         | |       P. O. Box 1972, Building 167B
>| |__\ \________| |       Kingsport, TN  37662       615/229-4904
>|                 |       INTERNET:   ornitz@kodak.com
> -----------------
>

Hey wait a minute....   you are a HAM operator!   look up the 
2.35 -->  2.45 GHz stuff yourself in the ARRL handbook

and please...   go away


thank you,
lee
--------------------------------------------------------------
(next mail message from Barry)
>The 2.45 GHz frequency is correct.  Send me the $5.  If you want to check,
look
>in Part 18 of the FCC Rules and Regulations.  You obviously know little about
>resonance phenomena.  2.45 GHz is a SUB-harmonic of 24.5 GHz.  Harmonic
>resonance is possible but not sub-harmonic resonance.  Microwave spectra is
>rotational spectra (and in a few cases inversion spectra like the ammonia
>molecule), not vibrational spectra.  The vibrational spectra for water occur
>in the infrared and near-infrared, many orders of magnitude higher in
frequency
>higher than microwaves.
>
>Commercial microwave ovens are available for 915 +/- 13 MHz, 2450 +/- 50 MHz,
>and 5800 +/- 75 MHz.  Once again none of these are related to resonance
>phenomena in water, but they are all Industrial, Scientific, and Medical
>Frequencies as assigned by the FCC.  In various European countries, other
>frequencies are used like 433.92 MHz (Austria, Germany, etc.), 896 MHz (UK),
>2375 MHz (former Soviet bloc countries), and 3390 and 6780 MHz (Netherlands).
>
>I suggest you get your facts straight - especially about resonance phenomena -
>before you start mouthing off.
>                                        Barry     ornitz@kodak.com

1.  So, how does a microwave oven work?
2.  Why do objects with no water in them refuse to be heated by them?


I have yet to check the 2.35 -->2.45 GHz issue.

lee