HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: IACDES@ASUACAD.BITNET (David E. Schwalm)
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.mbu-l
Subject: Re: (Fwd: *C&CD*) Making Vax Edit easier (13)
Date: 15 Oct 92 17:47:48 GMT
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 *** Reply to note of 10/15/92 10:23
 Hey, is Susan Morgan still at Vassar? Say hello to her for me, a vague ghost
 from the past at Chicago. Thanks.

 -- David E. Schwalm, Assoc. Provost for Academic Programs
 ___Arizona State University West
 ___4701 West Thunderbird Rd.
 ___Phoenix, AZ 85069-7100___(602) 543-4500
From: WESCHAP@VMD.CSO.UIUC.EDU
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.mbu-l
Subject: Re: Computer Travels (long message)
Date: 16 Oct 92 00:37:56 GMT
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Michael Hassett:
    Both in my present position at Illinois Wesleyan University and as a grad
student at Cornell, I have taught all my computer-classroom courses in the
electronic classroom every session.  I understand that for schools with very
budgets of computer classroom time this option isn't always available, but I
consider it highly desirable.  In the first place, students have less trouble
with the computers if they live with them every day.  Also, it's nice to be
able to write in class on short notice; unplanned freewrites are often the most
 productive kind.  And I confess that I frequently do not plan the day's acti-v
ities until the night or even the hour before; having only limited access to
the computers would make scheduling difficult.
      Wes Chapman
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Date:         Mon, 12 Oct 1992 11:50:50 CDT
From:         Don Langham <DLANGHAM@ENGLISH.AS.UA.EDU>
Subject:      Textra, Daedalus alternatives

>      I bought Textra 6 for some of those reasons, and I guess I'd
> consider upgrading.  But WordPerfect seems to have locked up so
> much of the market around here (for reasons I don't understand;
> perhaps a conspiracy of people who teach overcomplicated word-
> processing programs) that I'm being forced to use it.  It has to
> do with peripheral arguments for CMC in education generally (we
> can justify what we're doing more effectively by claiming it's
> giving students "computer skills").  And it remains a problem
> that you can't get a site license to put Norton Textra on a
> network.

Like you, Russ, I'm at a loss as to why one might use WP (or worse,
MS Word) in a composition classroom.  An administrator here at
Alabama has offered to "fix us up" with MS Word 5.  We said no
thanks.  He said he thought it would be a good idea, since no one in
"the real world" (not his words exactly, but this conveys the
sentiment) uses Textra--as if the purpose of word processing in
composition was to teach students word processing.

As for the site license, last year we purchased 45 copies of Textra 6
($50 per copy with academic discount), one for each of our lab's
workstations.  So far, we've been pleased with the arrangement.  Of course,
this isn't a good solution for a campus-wide installation.  But for
one LAN, it works fine.

Also, we've tried Brainstorm with mixed results.  Found that it
didn't allow importing of large ASCII files, a real drawback for
online workshopping.  I've adapted Pegasus for asynchronous classroom
discussion (and paper workshopping) with some success.  But e-mail's e-
mail, which is to say that it wasn't designed to do what Daedalus was
designed to do. Trade offs, trade offs.

--Don Langham
  University of Alabama
  DLangham@English.as.ua.edu
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Date:         Sat, 10 Oct 1992 10:35:10 HST
From:         James Shimabukuro <JAMESS@UHUNIX.BITNET>
Subject:      Re: Reply to Re: Community of Teachers?

Re Eric Crump's response to Irv Peckham

Makes sense to me, too, that "maybe face-to-face interactions in classrooms,
too, will be influenced by the computer"--and I'd add that the influence will
be very positive.

Jim S.
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From: YKFOK@TTACS.BITNET (Fred Kemp)
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.mbu-l
Subject: it's the teachers
Date: 11 Oct 92 17:42:00 GMT
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Original_To:  BITNET%"mbu-l@ttuvm1"

Terrific point, Bobby.

>It isn't the computer that fosters good teaching. It's the good teachers, I
>think, who embrace the computer.

And not because they are technology lovers but because they
recognize what a huge mess most writing instruction is (with a
few notable writing programs as exceptions).

Fred
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Date:         Wed, 7 Oct 1992 14:53:12 -0400
From:         MIJOYCE@VASSAR.BITNET
Subject:      Re Raht on, Bob C

At the risk of engaging in another typical MBU behavior(and subgenre) that
always drives them doggies off (i.e., the serial agreements to an earlier
point ((of which, BTW, the current stream of "Re: class size" postings is a
subsubgenre-- thus the LISPlike parens-- and which I think we've agreed
over the years {for instance in discussions about salaries, adjuncts, etc.}
is worlds more powerful than just looking at someone's collation of
class-size info, because here we see the real voices and random comments
next to the numbers, & feel the fervor and fever)); itself loosely related
to yet another MBU subgenre, the serial acceptances of invitations to
breakfasts in cities where C&W's meet; itself loosely related to another
MBU subgenre, Myles Slatin's serial(not cereal, as in the previous
subgenre) responses to a week of MBU postings from others); I too agree
with Bob C and with Fred who agrees with Bob C, and for that matter with
anyone who agrees with me (about this at least, since I'm dubious of people
who agree with me in general).

Michael Joyce
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Date:         Wed, 7 Oct 1992 11:00:00 EST
From:         Joel Nydahl <NYDAHL@BABSON.BITNET>
Subject:      Re: Provostial support group

It might help if those absolutely wonderful sentences you quote appeared as
exercises in eliminating obfuscation in your writing classes--with attribution.
(Do you dare?)

Or, better yet--to eliminate the kinds of misplaced modifiers I'm always
scolding my studnets for--"appeared in your writing classes as exercises in
eliminating obfuscation.  (I now feel purged.)
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Date:         Tue, 6 Oct 1992 21:24:56 CDT
From:         "(Irv Peckham)" <peckham@CWIS.UNOMAHA.EDU>
Subject:      Re: Class Size

University of Nebraska, Omaha (and feeling lucky)
1st sem firstyear comp: 16
2nd sem.: 20
upper level: 25
--
Irvin Peckham
Internet: peckham@unomaha.edu
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Date:         Tue, 13 Oct 1992 09:17:21 EDT
From:         Roni Keane <VKEANE@CCVM.SUNYSB.EDU>
Subject:      Re: ERIC resources online
              13 Oct 1992 01:57:01 GMT from <maynor@RA.MSSTATE.EDU>

Natalie,

I tried the numbers, but I still got the same message as when I used the
letters.Any ideas on this?

Also, who is the remote host I am trying to reach (I know it's a dumb question
but . . . )? And what do I type in for "optional port"?

Some people can't figure it out. They gotta be told the answers.

                                      --Roni Keane
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Date:         Thu, 8 Oct 1992 08:56:13 CDT
From:         "(Irv Peckham)" <peckham@CWIS.UNOMAHA.EDU>
Subject:      Re: Reply to Re: Basic writing, again and again
              92 11:16 am

Mike:
I have been having students reading aloud for the last 15 years.  I can't
imagine a better way of teaching students to "hear" their texts.  Managed
properly, the strategy also gives the teacher a forum within which to teach
students methods of responding to one another's papers.  Easy way of
objectifying the text and the responses so that everyone can see what's
going on.  I mix the reading aloud with other methods of having students
write responses according to criteria that a specific to the writing
situation.  We run peer response and editing sessions differently for
each draft.  Keeps everyone hopping.
  I consider Wyche-Smith's video and Elbow and Belanoff's Sharing and
Responding the best things around.  One adapts them of course.
--
Irvin Peckham
Internet: peckham@unomaha.edu
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Date:         Sat, 10 Oct 1992 11:39:01 CDT
From:         Eric Crump <C509379@MIZZOU1.BITNET>
Subject:      weird community

Irv says:
-------------------------------------------------------------------
I recognize that many of you have discovered a sense of community
among your students via networking.  I'm wondering why we need
computers to create that sense of community?  Something seems weird
here.
-------------------------------------------------------------------

David is on track I think with his "almost an out of body experience"
comment. In our culture, anyway, people have never been real wild
about bodies. oh, it's nice to touch particular bodies when the
lights are out and the kids are asleep, but for the most part, we
shun too much rubbing of the flesh. I know you aren't suggesting
that community-building ought to include *rubbing* or anything,
but perhaps that it somehow ought to include *proximity.*

But I'll submit thatproximity reminds us orubbing and of other
distasteful aspects of being human animals and that's why we've
always embraced technologies--transportation and communication--
that allow us to interact with others, but at a comfortable
distance. That networked computers seem to promote community
building strikes me as far from weird--it seems perfectly natural.

And in classrooms, the efficacy of distance (psychic rather than
geographic) provided by computer networks is also a product of
its departure, to some degree, from the power structure of the
old face-to-face classrooms, where teachers hoarded authority.
It's tough to commune with someone who holds all the face-cards.

to the extent that computers have a leveling influence in the
power structure of the classroom, they make student-teacher
communities more likely because they *can* help students and
teachers treat each other more like colleagues. See MBU for
evidence of that. How many people here are students? how many
are teachers? how many are administrators? it's difficult to
tell based on how we interact here. We have enough distance
from each other and from the classroom that we can get along
nicely.
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Date:         Sat, 10 Oct 1992 22:36:00 CDT
From:         Bob Boston <S2.RSB@ISUMVS.IASTATE.EDU>
Subject:      Re: Community of Teachers

Irv Pecham says, "Karen Schwalm (I think) wrote about the easy atmosphere
of the computer lab where kids felt free to go in and you work on
their texts, etc.  Should this be impossible in a writing class?  I
am suggesting, I guess, that the problem may not be with the medium;
it may be us."

Negatory. The problem is with THEM. They who want to dominate their students,
they who regard themselves as the receptacles and the guardians of knowledge
will always foster a classroom atmosphere which is anathema to learning.

Those people don't want other teachers in their classrooms because they fear
anyone who might challenge their authority. I ran into one of them on the
first day of classes this semester. One of our TA's in Creative Writing who
was slated to teach a Freshman section in a computer classroom left a note in
my mailbox saying that he had moved his class to another room. When I went
into the computer classroom to set it up for the evening open hours, I found
him there, lecturing his students, who were looking longingly at the hypnotic
screensaver on the Macs. I said not a word, but went straight to my work. I
set up the network and then left the jerk.

But as I was setting up the other LAN, this a&&h01e came into the lab and said
he did not appreciate my presence in his classroom. I successfully suppressed
my instinctive Lyndon Johnson response: "Son, they're all MY classrooms," and
said instead that I was glad that he had elected not to work in the Writing
Labs, that we would both be happier if his class met elsewhere. (And,
surprising myself, I said it in a neutral tone of voice.)

No matter where this guy works, he will run the classroom like Dachau, with
himself as oven operator. I'm sorry I have no say about his getting a degree
from this university, for if he gets a job, he'll be allowed to dominate his
students for at least forty years.

It isn't the computer that fosters good teaching. It's the good teachers, I
think, who embrace the computer. In this case, I find it significant that the
guy knew at once that he wasn't good enough to work in the computer classroom.

Bob Boston
Iowa State University
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Date:         Thu, 8 Oct 1992 00:24:46 EST
From:         "(Gary Beason)" <bubba@MACE.CC.PURDUE.EDU>
Subject:      Re: Pat Schroeder and Higher Education
              Oct 7, 92 5:48 pm

In what I saw of her discussion some two or so weeks ago, Rep. Pat did
hear from two ex-college presidents that those average salaries were
"inflated" by administrators' and the Nobel laureates' salaries.  But
she did not really translate that to mean that university professors
were not overpaid.

I thought one interesting comments by one of the "witnesses" was that
endowments are kept but never used for education purposes.
Supposedly, universities are ranked in part by the size of their
endowments.

In my ex-student newsmagazine from Texas A&M a couple of months ago,
they reported a new gift to the the university, specifically the
school of engineering, that is the second largest in the U.S.  The
magazine also listed the top ten gifts/donations.

Almost all, around 8 or 9, had been given within the last 5-8 years.

In other words, the money coming into the unversity systems is
increasing, but the expenses are actually decreasing, according to the
Schroeder investigation.


---------

Gary Beason		         bubba@mace.cc.purdue.edu
Purdue University, English       bubba@expert.cc.purdue.edu (Eudora)
From: S2.RSB@ISUMVS.IASTATE.EDU (Bob Boston)
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.mbu-l
Subject: Re: Community of Teachers
Date: 10 Oct 92 00:23:45 GMT
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU

As I read your responses to my question about a community of teachers, I
realized once again how different MBU is from other lists I've had to
subscribe to.  With the exception of a brief period almost a year ago, we
rarely engage in flame wars. The personal attacks and vituperation which
abound on other lists are virtually nonexistent here. I think the collegial
atmosphere we have in our own classrooms, Fred's "Project Effect," carries
over to this electronic campus.

And Rhoda, I can understand how being thought of as an "Electronic Mom" would
be wonderful and terrible at the same time. As a loving, outgoing person you
enjoy the warm relationship you have with students. But how could someone of
your tender years (25? 26?) be a mother figure to college students?  I have
the same problem. I'm simply not old enough to be "Uncle Bob" to all these
kids.  While I'm talking to you, are you going to be able to come to Ann Arbor
for C&W next Spring? We have to have a reunion of Bob's Harem.

Bob Boston
Iowa State University
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Date:         Fri, 9 Oct 1992 10:37:04 EDT
From:         Roni Keane <VKEANE@CCVM.SUNYSB.EDU>
Subject:      Re: ERIC resources online
              8 Oct 1992 18:32:15 CDT from <maynor@RA.MSSTATE.EDU>

Natalie,

I "telnetted" and got the following:

   Port 'ACSNET.SYR.EDU' not numeric. Enter remote host (and optional port).

Who's the remote host and what's the optional port?


Thanks, with confidence that between you and Bernard you'll have the answer.

                                                    --Roni
From: GALIN@PITTVMS.BITNET (JEFFREY R. GALIN)
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.mbu-l
Subject: Report form Pittsburgh
Date: 15 Oct 92 04:58:00 GMT
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How depressing!
ARRGGG.
jrg
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Date:         Tue, 13 Oct 1992 07:47:00 EST
From:         Joel Nydahl <NYDAHL@BABSON.BITNET>
Subject:      Re: Textra

Natalie's comment on WordPerfect causes me, too, to comment on Microsoft
Word.  My students have no trouble with it.  It's pretty straight forward.
Powerful word processors don't seem to be a problem; they learn what they
need to know when they need to know it.   Textra, however, is a real bargin.
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Date:         Tue, 6 Oct 1992 11:56:56 EDT
From:         Bill Condon <USERLCBK@UMICHUM.BITNET>
Subject:      Class Size

Jeez, when will we be able to get past this issue?  Will we all spend the
rest of our careers fighting the same old battle over and over and over
and over?  My sympathies, Lisa.  And our class sizes:

A the first-year level, our Writing Practica (pre-Intro Comp) are limited
to 16, and Intro Comp classes are limited to 22.  Sophomore-level
writing classes have the same limit as Intro Comp.  At the Jr-Sr
level, there are no set limits, but WRITING courses, as opposed to
writing-intensive courses, are limited to 25.  Hope this helps!

Bill Condon
English Composition Board
1025 Angell Hall
University of Michigan
Ann Arbor, MI 48109
userlcbk@umichum.bitnet
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Date:         Wed, 14 Oct 1992 11:40:29 CDT
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From:         Undetermined origin c/o Postmaster <POSTMASTER@TTUVM1.BITNET>
Subject:      Re: Computer Travels (long message)
              13 Oct 92 08:18:13 -0700. <9210131522.AA26469@po-1.iastate.edu>

Hello, MBU-ers!  My name is Michael Hassett, and  I am a PhD student at
Iowa State, where I work with Bob Boston in the computer composition
classrooms (I am not the TA about whom Bob cleaned his speen).
I have a question for you (there will actually be a series of questions,
I expect, but I want to begin with just one).  We are investigating our
own use of computers in freshman English courses.  As part of that
investigation, we are considering scheduling our labs in different
configurations.  For example, we are currently looking at putting some
classes into the lab every day (computer-intensive), some every other
day (computer-assisted), and some not at all (computer-ignorant?).  My
question at this point is, how do you schedule your composition classrooms
in your computer labs?  And, a derivative question, what experiences
have you had as you've attempted other configurations, if you have done so?
I've attached this message to James Crosswhite's because while I have
been following his messages, I have not been paying particular attention
to them (sorry) because I did not know that I would so soon become
involved with lab configuration, scheduling, and so forth.  I know that
he has, in his "Computer Traveller" guise, responded to some of these
issues, and I wish now that I had saved all of them.  Now, since I didn't,
I am asking if you could all help me get some idea of the various
scheduling possibilities.  Thanks to all of you who have made it this
far in this message--I appreciate your time and your patience.
Michael Hassett
mhassett@iastate.edu
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Date:         Fri, 9 Oct 1992 23:01:02 -0400
From:         Margaret.Daisley@ENGLISH.UMASS.EDU
Subject:      Reply to Re: Community of Teachers?

Irv: yes -- what is wrong with this picture?  What I surmise, from my research
into just such issues, (so far) that because computer-mediated communication
is so akin to talking (yet we are, after all "writing") there is something
freeing about this hybrid.  This means that both writing and speaking have
become rather ritualized in the history of education -- I think this is true
in the business setting, also, from what the literature reports -- and this
is one medium (probably not the only one) which cuts through those rituals,
breaks them up, creates something slightly new.  Maybe the question to ask is:
when will the novelty wear off?  When and how will we shift into a new set of
patterns?
Margaret Daisley@English.UMass.EDU
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Date:         Sat, 10 Oct 1992 18:01:00 EDT
From:         "Composition Digest (Robert Royar,
              Moderator)" <R0MILL01@ULKYVX.BITNET>
Subject:      (Fwd: *C&CD*) Rhetoric (19)

Date: Fri, 9 Oct 92 23:19:56 EDT
From: Mark Harris <USERTFSC@UMICHUM.BITNET>
Message-id: <16422812@UMICHUM.BITNET>
Subject: Rhetoric (19)
Reply-to: Computers & Composition Digest (R. Royar) <R0MILL01@ULKYVX.BITNET>

Peter,
I teach English at Jackson Community College
(Jackson, Michigan).  I was delighted to see your
posting.  I don't of any texts which address rhetoric
in environmentalism, but a good introduction to
rhetoric is Corbett's "Classical Rhetoric for the Modern
Student."  The first edition is twenty years old but
OUP published a third edition a couple year's back.
Here's the citation I found on the UM catalog:
Corbett, Edward P. J.
Classical rhetoric for the modern student,
3rd ed.
New York : Oxford University Press, 1990
Please keep me posted on your progress.
Mark Harris, JCC user tfsc@umichum.bitnet
(517) 787-0800 x257

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