HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: au455@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Douglas S. Caprette)
Newsgroups: alt.conspiracy.jfk
Subject: The Plot to Kill JFK
Date: 17 Nov 1992 20:07:51 GMT
Organization: Case Western Reserve University, Cleveland, OH (USA)
Reply-To: au455@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Douglas S. Caprette)
NNTP-Posting-Host: hela.ins.cwru.edu


In a previous article, U54778@uicvm.uic.edu () says:

>Well, Joel, I still feel there is a case to be made for the viability of
>Helen as a witness as confused as she was but I'm too tired to argue
>about it.
>  As to Lane, on first reading this one gets a clear impression of Lane
>trying to hogtie the witness to change her story.  Before I get the noose
>for Lane on this particular incident, there are other factors which may
>turn into mitigating circumstances for Lane.
>  First, let me point out that what we could be seeing here is Lane actually
>being confused by a newspaper article.  I would like to see what was in that
>article.  If the news writer had the testimony confused in the first place,
>rereading Lane's phone quizing comes across less pushy and more befuddled.
>
>  Second, I would implore you (and anyone else interested) to rent the video,
>"The Plot to Kill JFK".  This is a video of Lane interviewing many of the
>overlooked and/or ignored witnesses in this case back in 1966.  In the video,
>Lane interviews Mrs. Clemmons who, apparently unlead, tells us of viewing
>two men at the shooting.  One of which was short and stocky with bushy
>hair.  Could this be the source of the confusion either on Lane's part or
>a newspaper writer's part?  Or is Lane trying to push Clemmon's description
>into Markham's mind?  I can't choose the true explanation from these
>possibilities.
>
The title of this movie is "Rush to Judgement".
"The Plot to Kill JFK" is either a subtitle or , I suspect, a catchy
retitle for the video.  It is highly misleading as it is not at all
about any plot to kill JFK, rather it is about a plot to mislead the WC
into arriving at the lone assasin conclusion.  It is an astonishing
video to see, particularly considering that it dates from 1966.

Newsgroups: alt.conspiracy.jfk,alt.conspiracy,alt.society.civil-liberty,alt.individualism,alt.censorship,talk.politics.misc,misc.headlines,soc.culture.usa
Organization: University of Illinois at Chicago
Date: Monday, 23 Nov 1992 22:38:36 CST
From: <U54778@uicvm.uic.edu>
Newsgroups: alt.conspiracy.jfk
Subject: Re: rush to judgement/mark lane

The gentleman Lane is interviewing is Penn Jones Jr., famous for being an
early critic.  He was the owner/publisher of the Midlothian Mirror.  He is
well known for being the single most strongest advocate of the death list.
Last I heard he had sold the paper in the 80's and retired with a new
young wife to better climes.
  His books still sell and in them are the continuing list of JFK deaths.
You can pick up copies from The Last Hurrah Bookstore in Williamsport, PA at
937 Memorial Ave. zip 17701.  Ask for a catalog.
  I do not want to rain on your parade but some of these death stories do not
hold up on closer examination and some do.  Some are just a puzzle.  Take
the famous Bowers death story or more appropriately stories for there are
several versions of it amongst the lore.  One has another car forciing
him off the road.  Another has him drugged before the crash at his
favorite dinner.  A contemporary researcher has spread the results of his
inquiry into this death and he uncovered a family story that Bowers was
on medication and the other stories are third hand embellishments.  The bottom
line is that this death is close enough to the JFK assassination to make
it suspect but all the rest of the pieces of the tale are not very strong.
I am trying to get permission to post this researcher's blurb on the
details.  When I do, you'll see it here.
  Just in case you have come to this newsgroup anew,  I'm really am on the
side of belief in a conspiracy but what has happened to what I will call
the critical community is that they have gotten to the point where third
hand rumors have been accepted as hard core fact and have been absorbed into
a cultural lore.
  Jim Marrs in his preface to his book on the assassination tells his
readers to not blindly accept what he/she is about to read.  The admonition
is pointed at what you read in the official media but also applies to
what the critics write also.
  Let me again endorse the viewing of this video.  It is a fine example of
getting practically first hand exposure to the side of eyewitnesses who
were ignored by the Warren Comm.  Whatever Lane can be attacked for by
anyone who wants to throw mud at him, he has to be commended for putting
this piece of history on celluloid.  Seeing them attest to what they saw
at Dealey Plaza, you can judge for yourself as to their character and not
rely upon those who would just use particular statements of theirs to either
support or attack them.
ALAN ROGERS
From: krusebrianke@bvc.edu
Newsgroups: alt.conspiracy.jfk
Subject: IT WAS A CONSP. NO IFS &OR BUTTS
Date: 16 Nov 92 22:13:38 CDT
Organization: Buena Vista College, Storm Lake, IA

IT WAS A CONSPIRACY .....END OF DISCUSION

Newsgroups: alt.conspiracy.jfk
From: sdevries@fys.ruu.nl (Sjoerd de Vries)
Subject: alt.conspiracy.jfk archive 
Organization: Physics Department, University of Utrecht, The Netherlands
Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1992 13:26:06 GMT

I'm not sure whether this is common knowledge, but wandering
around some ftp-sites I landed upon a site that carries an archive
of this newsgroup, well, at least the bits between Februari and July.
The site is ftp.uiowa.edu, the directory /archives/jfk.
Thought I should mention this.
-- 
+-------------------------------------------------------------------+
| Sjoerd C. de Vries                            | If all else fails |
| Utrecht Biophysics Research Institute         | we can whip the   |
| Dept. of Medical and Physiological Physics    | horses' eyes      |
Newsgroups: alt.conspiracy.jfk
From: jmk@cbnews.cb.att.com (joseph.m.knapp)
Subject: Re: "Frontline" re JFK
Organization: AT&T
Date: Sun, 22 Nov 1992 15:45:43 GMT

Bruce_Schuck@sfu.ca writes:
>jmk@cbnews.cb.att.com (joseph.m.knapp) writes:
>>It should be noted though that the electoral score was JFK 303, RMN 219,
>>and Byrd 15, so Illinois' 27 electoral votes were not decisive and any
>>help from Chicago graveyards is a moot point.
>
>Well.... 303 - 27 = 276
>         219 + 27 = 246 
>
>One more 15 electoral vote [or more] switch to Nixon 
>and a win in Illinois for Nixon *would* have been decisive!

It's a little trickier: to win outright required a majority of the 537
total electoral votes. So 269 votes were needed. If JFK had lost 8 EVs
in addition to Illinois' 27, he would not have a majority but neither
would Nixon. The winner would be determined by the House, applying an 
arcane set of rules that probably would result in JFK's election, given that
the House was controlled by Democrats. Nixon, therefore, most likely
could have won only if he got an electoral majority. To do this, he needed
269-219 or 50 additional EVs. Even with Illinois, he would have needed
23 more.

---
Joe Knapp   jmk@cbvox.att.com
From: grant_jo@ripple.enet.dec.com (Joel Grant)
Newsgroups: alt.conspiracy.jfk
Subject: Technical Help Request
Date: 17 Nov 92 23:49:47 GMT
Organization: Digital Equipment Corporation



I have a friend who would like to access the Usenet.

She has a 486SX w/ fax modem, uses Compuserve, has basic
DOS 5.0...

Any help would be appreciated.

Thanks!

Joel Grant  (speaking on his own behalf)
From: danny@nessie.mcc.ac.uk (Danny Graham)
Newsgroups: alt.conspiracy.jfk
Subject: Zapruder film
Date: 16 Nov 92 14:29:09 GMT
Organization: Manchester Computing Centre

This is a simple question from an avid reader of this column !

For many years in Britain, whenever programs on the JFK shooting were shown
on the TV, the footage shown, was always a very hazey black and white piece
of TV coverage shot (I think) from quite a distance. Then, about five years
ago, a colour film appeared to be unearthed that was exstremely vivid and has
been used in every documentry I've seen since, and was the one used in the
film "JFK". Is this the Zapruder film ? And how come if LIFE magazine have
had it since 1963, did it take such a long time to reach our TV screens ?

Thankyou for your time,

Danny
Newsgroups: alt.conspiracy.jfk
From: sdevries@fys.ruu.nl (Sjoerd de Vries)
Subject: Re: Home Movies at Dealey Plaza
Organization: Physics Department, University of Utrecht, The Netherlands
Date: Mon, 23 Nov 1992 16:39:48 GMT

In <17685@mindlink.bc.ca> Mike_Quigley@mindlink.bc.ca (Mike Quigley) writes:

>I'd like to know what other home movies were taken in the area of the
>assassination, aside from the Zapruder film. Do any of these other films
>appear anywhere? It would be nice if someone could issue a CAV laser disk so
>the Zapruder (and other) films could be studied in frame-by-frame detail.
>This would be an ideal medium, containing photos and other documents relating
>to the assassination. (Maybe a CD ROM would be better?)

Perhaps the newsfeed at your site is not up to date, or our CIA censors
did strike again  :-) , but I did post a list of photographs and movies, last
Sunday. If it doesn't pop up at your site within a few days, let me know
and I will send you the list.


-- 
+-------------------------------------------------------------------+
| Sjoerd C. de Vries                            | If all else fails |
| Utrecht Biophysics Research Institute         | we can whip the   |
| Dept. of Medical and Physiological Physics    | horses' eyes      |
From: bwood@nssdca.gsfc.nasa.gov (William Wood)
Subject: Re: 29th Anniversary of the Assasination
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41    
Organization: NASA - Goddard Space Flight Center
Date: Mon, 16 Nov 1992 20:39:00 GMT

In article <1992Nov16.175551.13326@rock.concert.net>, black@jazz.concert.net (Rob Black) writes...
>Hi! I just have a quick question. I'll be in D.C. this Sunday and was
>considering running by Arlington Cemetary, with it being the 22nd of
>Nov. and such.
> 
>My question is this: Are there any planned remembrances at JFK's gravesite?
>Does anyone know where I could find out?
> 
>Thanks a lot!
> 
> 
>Rob Black                  black@concert.net              Raleigh, NC
> 
> 
>"Let in never be forgot, that there was once a spot, that one brief shining
> moment, known as Camelot."
> 


<*>  

Dear Rob,

  The family 'used' to have annual rituals there on the 22nd.  
However, in recent years they have choosen to remember JFK on
his birthday instead.  I was at Arlington last Wednesday (Vets
Day), and I'll be there again this Sunday.. This time @ JFK's
grave, as I have for the past 29 years.  Drop me a (e-mail)
line if I can be of further help.  Bill
Newsgroups: alt.conspiracy.jfk
From: rdaniels@gibbs.oit.unc.edu (Robert E. Daniels)
Subject: Re:    REEVALUATION OF CASTRO/CONSIDERATION OF RAGGONO
Organization: University of North Carolina
Date: Mon, 23 Nov 1992 04:03:10 GMT

In article <1992Nov23.115525.1@cc.newcastle.edu.au> ccasm@cc.newcastle.edu.au writes:
>In article <92324.035400U54778@uicvm.uic.edu>, <U54778@uicvm.uic.edu> writes:
>> [deletions]

>The scenario that never seems to get aried here is the one I favour. It goes
>like this:
>
>This was a political hit. JFK was a politician, who may have made promises to
>the mob which he couldn't or didn't feel obliged to keep ( did they really get
>him elected?). JFK was a Democrat (how come with his establishment background?)
>Bush and Nixon were Republican politicians. The CIA was a political/ideological
>body which became an "army". The Pentagon was a defence organisation that
>realised it needed to influence politics. JFK was changing politics, foreign
>policy, the economic viability of what used to be called "The Establishment" in
>the 1960's and the influence of the mafia.
>
>[etc.]
>
>Big Al.....

Not a disagreement, but a comment: IMHO the best analysis of the
contending forces is Carl Oglesby's as first presented in his book THE
YANKEE AND COWBOY WAR, 1976.  His identification of the two poles as
"Yankees" and "Cowboys" is very insightful -- far more useful than the
Republican vs Democrat shell game.  His discussion of the divisions within
the CIA and within the various branches of the Kennedy administration is
very informative and (I think) relevant.

  Robert Daniels		
  -------------------------------------------------------------------
  new e-mail address (as of Nov. 19, 1992)-->  robert_daniels@unc.edu
  -------------------------------------------------------------------
                                Department of Anthropology
  919 962 5609                  University of North Carolina
  919 962 1243 secretary        CB# 3115, Alumni Building
  919 962 1316 fax		ChapelHill NC 27599-3115
  -------------------------------------------------------------------
From: rdaniels@gibbs.oit.unc.edu (Robert E. Daniels)
Newsgroups: alt.conspiracy.jfk
Subject: Re: rush to judgement/mark lane
Summary: list of deaths related to jfk assassination
Keywords: none
Date: 24 Nov 92 05:52:21 GMT
Organization: University of North Carolina

In article <1992Nov23.203738.17406@pony.Ingres.COM> walker@Ingres.COM (Lynn Walker) writes:
>I recently saw part of RUSH TO JUDGEMENT, the 1967 (?) documentary made by
>lawyer Mark Lane. In this film, Mr. Lane interviews an assassination
>investigator (whose name escapes me) who says that there were several witnesses
>or "people who knew too much" about the conspiracy/killing of JFK. These
>individuals all met untimely and mysterious deaths (i.e. Lee Bowers/car
>accident). These deaths occured within ten years after the assassination
>(correct me if I'm wrong).
>
>Does anyone have a list of those inviduals who died under mysterious
>circumstances? ....

Jim Marrs lists over a hundred deaths of people related to the case, some
simply by "natural causes," others by "heart attack" or "hit and run," and
many others by "gunshot," etc.  See pages 555-566 of CROSSFIRE: THE PLOT
THAT KILLED KENNEDY, New York: Carroll & Graf Publishers, Inc. 1989.

- Robert Daniels
From: libwca@emory.edu (Bill Anderson)
Newsgroups: alt.conspiracy.jfk
Subject: Re: IT WAS A CONSP. NO IFS &OR BUTTS
Date: 18 Nov 92 19:35:17 GMT
Organization: Emory University, Atlanta, GA
X-Newsreader: Tin 1.1 PL3

krusebrianke@bvc.edu writes:
: IT WAS A CONSPIRACY .....END OF DISCUSION

Why, thank you.  Guess we can fold up the newsgroup and go home
now...  Hey!  May be I'll get a life!

Nah...
From: wb9omc@dynamo.ecn.purdue.edu (Duane P Mantick)
Subject: Re: IT WAS A CONSP. NO IFS &OR BUTTS
Organization: Purdue University Engineering Computer Network
Date: 17 Nov 92 16:56:11 GMT

krusebrianke@bvc.edu writes:

>IT WAS A CONSPIRACY .....END OF DISCUSION

Don't mince words, what do you REALLY think?  :-)

Duane

Newsgroups: alt.conspiracy.jfk
From: bj368@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Mike E. Romano)
Newsgroups: alt.conspiracy.jfk
Subject: Re: "Frontline" re JFK
Date: 21 Nov 1992 04:38:49 GMT
Organization: Case Western Reserve University, Cleveland, Ohio (USA)
NNTP-Posting-Host: hela.ins.cwru.edu


I also saw the Frontline program on Ragano and his story of
the mob figures who he claimed engineered the assassination.

I am not a detail oriented person in this topic of JFK's  demise.

But I have evolved mostly in the direction of mob involvement
in the assassination (with CIA and a few others probably also
involved).
Here's my ridiculously naive question:  if as many have claimed,
JFK was supported heavily in his election by mob connections,
that his family or at least his father had connections for
years, perhaps decades earlier, that JFK knew he had been
helped into office, etc. by this faction.
That RFK would also know of this support and perhaps, indirectly
through his brother's elections, received same in order to
become attorney general....

Then why the vehemount pounce on Hoffa and others by RFK?
His very existence as high ranking attorney general assumed
at least in this scenario to  be due in part to mb connections.
This part does not make sense to me.

-- 
Capt. Kirk: let's head for that planet, third from the sun, it
            looks promising.... |-)
Newsgroups: alt.conspiracy.jfk
Subject: PBS special
From: geb@cs.pitt.edu (Gordon Banks)
Date: 18 Nov 92 15:40:30 GMT
Reply-To: geb@cs.pitt.edu (Gordon Banks)
Organization: Univ. of Pittsburgh Computer Science

I caught the tail end of a PBS show on the assassination
last night.  Conclusion: the Mafia had something to do with
it.  That's the first time I've seen PBS air something supporting
the conspiracy.  Sorry I missed the first part of it.

Cyril Wecht spoke here yesterday on the medical evidence.
Nothing new for me really, just more reinforcement on how
totally impossible the single bullet theory is.

-- 
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Gordon Banks  N3JXP      | "I have given you an argument; I am not obliged
geb@cadre.dsl.pitt.edu   |  to supply you with an understanding." -S.Johnson
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Newsgroups: alt.conspiracy.jfk
From: black@jazz.concert.net (Rob Black)
Subject: 29th Anniversary of the Assasination
Organization: MCNC Center for Communications -- CONCERT Network
Date: Mon, 16 Nov 1992 17:55:51 GMT

Hi! I just have a quick question. I'll be in D.C. this Sunday and was
considering running by Arlington Cemetary, with it being the 22nd of
Nov. and such.

My question is this: Are there any planned remembrances at JFK's gravesite?
Does anyone know where I could find out?

Thanks a lot!


Rob Black                  black@concert.net              Raleigh, NC


"Let in never be forgot, that there was once a spot, that one brief shining
 moment, known as Camelot."
Organization: Penn State University
Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1992 13:24:31 EST
From: Chris Hoffman <CXH181@psuvm.psu.edu>
Newsgroups: alt.conspiracy.jfk
Subject: Re: PBS special

The one piece of evidence that I feel is the missing link to the entire
'magic bullet' theory is the fact that there is more lead in Gov.
Connally's wrist today, than there is missing from the magic bullet.  This
certainly will cover the fact that this bullet is not the bullet that caused
seven injuries in two grown men.  Surely there would be more lead missing
from each of the impacts with bone, and since there is more lead in Gov.
Connally's wrist alone, I feel that this whole 'magic bullet' theory is
bogus.  This doesn't even count all of the other evidence to shoot this
incredible, miraculous bullet theory down the toilet.

Chris Hoffman
cxh181@psuvm.psu.edu

P.S.  - I'm proud to say that one of my senators is Arlen Specter - one of
the authors of this 'magic bullet' theory...........NOT!!!!!!!!!!!
From: indiana@ac.dal.ca
Newsgroups: alt.conspiracy.jfk
Subject: Again from Robert Morrow
Date: 20 Nov 92 19:58:33 -0400
Organization: Dalhousie University, Halifax, Nova Scotia, Canada


From "Broadcast News":
  
   "A man who says he was a contract employee of the CIA says in a new book
he bought and customized four rifles used by the CIA and the Mafia to kill
President John F. Kennedy.
  
   "Robert Morrow says President George Bush knew of the Kennedy
assassination conspiracy, though he did not specify when Bush, who was
Director of the CIA in 1976-77, became aware of it."
From: indiana@ac.dal.ca
Newsgroups: alt.conspiracy.jfk
Subject: "Frontline" re JFK
Date: 18 Nov 92 00:11:17 -0400
Organization: Dalhousie University, Halifax, Nova Scotia, Canada
From: schuck@fraser.sfu.ca (Bruce Jonathan Schuck)
Subject: Re: "Frontline" re JFK
Reply-To: Bruce_Schuck@sfu.ca
Organization: Simon Fraser University, Burnaby, B.C., Canada
Date: Sun, 22 Nov 1992 05:37:14 GMT

jmk@cbnews.cb.att.com (joseph.m.knapp) writes:

><U54778@uicvm.uic.edu> writes:
>>                                             Add to this the rumored story
>>of the Mafia influence in the South and in Chicago which put JFK over the
>>top in the election with a slim 6 figure lead.

>It should be noted though that the electoral score was JFK 303, RMN 219,
>and Byrd 15, so Illinois' 27 electoral votes were not decisive and any
>help from Chicago graveyards is a moot point.

Well.... 303 - 27 = 276
         219 + 27 = 246 

One more 15 electoral vote [or more] switch to Nixon 
and a win in Illinois for Nixon *would* have been decisive!

Thats assuming electoral votes are all or nothing, and since I'm
Canadian, correct me if I'm wrong on that.


-- 
......

Newsgroups: alt.conspiracy.jfk,alt.conspiracy,alt.society.civil-liberty,alt.individualism,alt.censorship,talk.politics.misc,misc.headlines,soc.culture.usa
From: jad@Turing.ORG (John DiNardo)
Subject: Confessed CIA Assassin Tells About the Gun Caravan to Shoot Kennedy
Followup-To:  alt.conspiracy.jfk
Keywords: Confessed CIA assassin tells about the gun caravan to shoot Kennedy
Organization: University of Virginia
Date: Mon, 23 Nov 1992 13:32:18 GMT

Just a few minutes ago, Mark Lane, author of RUSH TO JUDGMENT and 
PLAUSIBLE DENIAL, was interviewed on WBAI-FM (99.5) in New York City.
He briefly described the trial in Miami (covered in PLAUSIBLE DENIAL)
wherein CIA operative Marita Lorenz describes her ride in the CIA
gun caravan from a CIA safe house in Miami to a motel in Dallas.
She named brothers Guillermo & Ignacio Novo and Gerry Patrick Hemming
as co-passengers in the caravan loaded with automatic weapons and
high-powered telescopic rifles.

Mark Lane then related a little story that may not yet be published
anywhere. He said that he telephoned Gerry Patrick Hemming at his 
place in Miami, surmising that Hemming would just hang up on him,
but what the hell, what can you lose? Surprisingly, Hemming answered:
"Hi, Mark."  Mark Lane said: "Do you know who I am? Did you read my
books?"  Hemming said: "Yes, I know who you are, and I loved your
books on the Kennedy Assassination!"  Lane asked: "Were you in that
two-car gun caravan from Miami to Dallas that was attested to by 
Marita Lorenz?"  Hemming responded: "You know, it's been so many 
years that people's memories tend to fade. It was a THREE-car caravan."

Mark Lane went on to state that Hemming readily admitted that, as
a CIA agent, he had committed assassinations in Africa and elsewhere.
He told Lane that he had either led or been a member of an
assassination team designated to murder President Kennedy, and 
that that murder team had been in existence for one year prior
to the killing of the president.

Hemming also told Mark Lane that if he were to be subpoenaed to
testify, he would do so.

If anyone has amplifying information on this testimony,
please post it.

      John DiNardo
Organization: Central Michigan University
Date: Monday, 23 Nov 1992 21:11:37 EST
From: Douglas Breece <34YCVFT@CMUVM.CSV.CMICH.EDU>
Newsgroups: alt.conspiracy.jfk
Subject: Re: Confessed CIA Assassin Tells About the Gun Caravan to Shoot Kenned


qquit
netnews
Newsgroups: alt.conspiracy.jfk,alt.conspiracy,alt.activism,alt.society.civil-liberty,alt.individualism,alt.censorship,talk.politics.misc,misc.headlines,soc.culture.usa