From: a481@mindlink.bc.ca (J.D. Frazer)
Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.advocacy
Subject: Re: game vs reality simulation
Date: 4 Oct 92 06:39:35 GMT
Organization: MIND LINK! - British Columbia, Canada

> bkoike@sdcc13.ucsd.edu (Bryce Koike) writes:
>
> Sorry, I should use proper GURPS wording:  shoot for the vitals or the
> BRAIN (if you've got time to aim), not for the TORSO. The torso is a large
> area with all sorts of nice bones and things to get in the way of unaimed
> shots.

Huh? The chest and torso are one and the same. To be totally accurate, the
chest is part of the torso. The torso includes the entire trunk of the
body, from the base of the neck to the waist, excluding the arms.

"[...] nice bones and things [...]" do *not* "[...] get in the way [...]"
of projectiles travelling hundreds of feet per second. If a projectile hits
bone, the damage will be that much more serious.

> I'm not going to sit around and argue the reality of this because I've
> never been in a war or any gunfight, but generally-speaking if I really
> wanted to kill someone, I'd shoot at the general heart region.

Which is located in the torso. Aiming for the heart is silly. Just pump his
chest full of lead and let the hydrostatic shock do its work. You need not
actually penetrate the heart to kill someone.

> I'd call that aiming for the vitals (-3 to hit) because I'm not just
> pointing my gun at the guy and shooting (which I do happen to know is much
> easier), and if I hit, I may very well damage something "vital"  =)

I don't understand this "aiming for the vitals" stuff. Snipers aim for the
base of the neck to kill and the thighs to incapacitate. They do this
because they usually can afford to -- they often have ample time to aim,
and their weapons mount scopes. If you're in a firefight, reality dictates
that you simply try to put the other guy down before he can hit *you*. This
means you aim for the largest part of the body: the chest.

> This is my rationale, but if you've got another one, that's fine.

Then I disagree with your rationale. It makes no sense to me.

> The point is that gaming is never equal to "reality."

That's a pretty broad statement. I disagree with you entirely. Games can
approach reality by obeying various laws, such as physics, medicine,
psychology, and the like.

> In reality you might get shot in the leg and go down, preferring to nurse
> your wound than fight the pain, leap up, and continue the battle (as people
> are apt to do in almost all the RPG's I've played in).

Your RPG experience hardly dictates what everyone else does in their games.
Additionally, game systems that allow a character to jump up again and
consistently ignore the pain associated with a gunshot wound do not
approach realism.

> A brain shot in GURPS is a -7 to hit. Unless you're sure of yourself,
> you're never going to make that shot.  But if you're a sniper and you're
> sitting on a building, why not?  You've got your full ACC bonus and +3 from
> aiming...if that's not good enough, then nothing is.

Sniping is drastically different from normal firefighting, as I've pointed
out above.

> I can think of other situations where this is appropriate. Melee combat
> when a guy is decked out in plate mail but without a helmet, etc...

Melee is not projectile combat. You can't draw a parallel.

> I hope I already explained this one.  Sorry that I said chest when I meant
> torso... (although for some people, I'm sure that the difference between
> the two are too small to be counted...)

I can't speak for anyone else, but to me the torso and chest are very much
the same.

> Could you please get off your high horse and just conduct a normal
> conversation?  I honestly don't understand why you're so offended.  If
> you're really interested in getting off on games, go pick on AD&D for a
> while...

Touchy, touchy. High horse? You make statements that are blatantly untrue
and claim that they are facts, then disparage someone for his lack of
combat knowledge. I point out that you're wrong and back my claim up with
real-life examples, and you say I'm on a high horse. Maybe you should calm
down, then check your information before claiming factuality.

--
J.D. Frazer, a481@mindlink.bc.ca, (Vancouver, B.C., Canada)
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Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.advocacy