HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: jnachman@guvax.acc.georgetown.edu
Newsgroups: rec.food.veg
Subject: Re: Conclusions about Ted Altar
Date: 11 Nov 92 13:50:50 GMT
Organization: Georgetown University


In article <1992Nov11.055656.29881@abo.fi>, abulsari@aton.abo.fi (A. Bulsari) writes:
> In article <1992Nov10.154835.25333@u.washington.edu> twain@milton.u.washington.edu (Barbara Hlavin) writes:
>>In article <1992Nov10.070847.13173@abo.fi> abulsari@aton.abo.fi writes:
>>>The result of last several postings is a consensus - 
>>
>>Who did you poll to arrive at this general agreement?  You didn't         
>>contact me.
> 
> You don't count.
> 
> So Ted, please  keep posting. People  like everything you post, and we
> all look forward to reading your postings.
> 
> We  should be  grateful  to him  for being  the single  most important
> source  of informative  postings  on r.f.v.  It is to  a  good  extent
> because of him and Ferrell Wheeler and  Michael Traub that people want
> to read this newsgroup.
> 
> 
> With regards, 
> A. Bulsari

Mr. Bulsari, why do you persist in trying to provide us with a 
hierarchy of the "most important" posters to this newsgroup? 
Why do you feel it necessary to categorize all rec.food.veg posters in 
your unofficial roster? Surely the readers of this newsgroup are able 
to come to their own conclusions about whom to read most closely, 
which articles are of most interest to them, and so forth?

Julie Nachman 
Newsgroups: rec.food.veg
From: artemis@netcom.com (Michelle Dick)
Subject: Re: Carobs
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services  (408 241-9760 guest) 
Date: Thu, 5 Nov 1992 06:02:33 GMT

In article <1992Nov5.012437.29831@sbcs.sunysb.edu> aathanas@csws17.ic.sunysb.edu (Andreas Athanasiades) writes:
>Does anybody know any recepies that use carobs ?

How timely.  I just picked up a carob cookbook this very day in a
used-book shop.  It's Juel Andersen's Carob Primer: A beginner's book
of carob cookery by Robin Clute and Juel Andersen.  Haven't had a
chance to make any of the recipes yet.  I gives instructions for
substituting carob for chocolate in recipes.

It's a thin book and has recipes for:

COOKIES, BROWNIES & CANDIES
Carob Chippers
Carob Dots 
Cocon-oat Cookies
Granola Treats
Honey Bronies
Icebox Cookies
Oat Brownies
Peanut Butter Fudge
Raisin-nut Candies
Rum Balls

PUDDINGS, PIES & PANCAKES
Brown Rice Pudding
Carob Pecan Pie
Carob Pie Crust
Coconut Cream Pie
Hasty Carob Pudding
Jonny Carob Cakes
Pumpkin Carob Cheese Pie
Silken Pie
Tofu Carob Pudding
Tia Maria Mousse

QUICK BREADS, CAKES, & FROSTINGS
Applesauce Cake
Banana Seed Bread
Bran-apple Muffins
Butter Cream Frosting
Carob Cupcakes
Creamy Frosting
Double Fudge Cake
Gingerbread
Honey Frosting
Orange Carob Chip Cake
Persimmon Bread
Spice Cake

SAUCES, SHAKES, & CREPES
Carob Shake
Carob Syrup
Shake-a-meal Smoothie
Sundae Sauce
Carob Crepe Dessert
Crepe Stack
Dessert Crepes


Any requests?

--
Michelle Dick
artemis@netcom.com
From: marcotte@acsu.buffalo.edu (Brian Marcotte)
Newsgroups: rec.food.veg
Subject: Re: LIST OF SUBSTANCES DERIVED FROM ANIMALS
Keywords: FAQ
Date: 9 Nov 92 01:22:33 GMT
Organization: UB

In article <altar.721245902@sfu.ca> altar@beaufort.sfu.ca (Ted Wayn Altar) writes:
->Thanks again Brian!  You do us a great service.  The only
->drawback is that your assiduous typing has given me sympathetic
->carpal tunnel syndrome.  Ouch.   :-)

Hmmmm.... Well, I cannot take credit for even a single line in that
list:

> ANIMAL DERIVED INGREDIENT LIST
> (from the National Anti-Vivisection Society's "Personal Care with Principle,"
> Spring, 1992)

Which was typed in and sent to me by someone I can't remember. I can't
seem to find the original message.

	"Would the real typist please stand up." :)

--
- Brian
Newsgroups: rec.food.veg
From: abulsari@aton.abo.fi (A. Bulsari)
Subject: Re: Is Respect For Nature Enough? An earnest request to Ted Altar
Organization: Abo Akademi University
Date: Mon, 9 Nov 1992 11:55:06 GMT

In article <1992Nov08.131925.23050@eng.umd.edu> georgec@eng.umd.edu (George B. Clark) writes:
>In article <altar.721157294@sfu.ca> altar@beaufort.sfu.ca (Ted Wayn Altar) writes:
>>
>>IS RESPECT" FOR NATURE ENOUGH FOR A VEGETARIAN OR ECOLOGICAL
>>ETHIC?
>
>     ( over 100 lines of text deleted)
>
>Ted, it is unclear why you persist in posting in a vegetarians' newsgroup
>these lengthy articles on ethics, the environment, animal rights, and
>whatever.

Vegetarianism comes from ethics, animal  rights, environment, etc.  So
Ted,  please continue  to post  those useful  informative  articles at
least for us who are interested in the roots of vegetarianism as well.

You are  obviously the  single  most  important  poster today and your
articles are among the most  informative ones.  I  believe this is not
just my opinion, but the general opinion on r.f.v. Please for our sake
continue  to post such useful material,  from which I and many  others
have learnt a lot, and hope to continue learning.

We will  also be  interested  in  health  issues,  so if you  have any
informative material that you could share with  us, please do. Ferrell
Wheeler  has been the most important  source of information for health
and  medical  issues  with  vegetarianism, and  I  hope  that he keeps
posting as well.

(And of course,  the same  to myself...  Please  keep posting  Michael
Traub's  material until he  returns. Thanks. And don't forget the list
of participants.)

With regards,

Abhay Bulsari
From: maurercj@ucbeh.san.uc.edu
Newsgroups: rec.food.veg
Subject: OL lunches for a student budget?
Date: 11 Nov 92 21:17:49 GMT
Article-I.D.: ucbeh.1992Nov11.161750.2082
Distribution: world
Organization: Univ. of Cincinnati

Hi out there,
  I've just recently given up meat (recently meaning two months ago),
I would really like to continue eating without eating meats however,
I'm getting kinda tired of salad and salad sandwiches for lunches.
I was wondering if anyone out there would be willing to send me a 
favorite recipe that would *fit into a college student budget (both 
moneywise and timewise)* and that would be somewhat easy to make.

  Also, I was hoping that someone would be kind enough to give me an 
idea or two about what to do with the holidays coming up (Thanksgiving
and Christmas) since I know that my mom will be soon telling me that 
there will be nothing for me to eat since I wont eat the turkey that 
she spent hours preparing :)
 
Thanks,
 Cathy       maurercj@ucbeh.san.uc.edu
Newsgroups: rec.food.veg
From: molnar@Bisco.CAnet.CA (Tom Molnar)
Subject: Re: TOFU
Organization: UTCS Campus Access
Date: Wed, 11 Nov 1992 02:31:08 GMT

In article <padma.721438776@blacks> padma@blacks.jpl.nasa.gov (Padma Varanasi) writes:
# This past weekend I read the ingredients on TOFU which I always assumed
# was a veg. product and noticed that one of the ingred. was Calcium Phosphate
# Now, isn't this derived from Animal Bones?

No, I wouldn't jump to that conclusion.   My webster server has the following
entry about calcium:

cal-ci-um n. Symbol Ca A silvery, moderately hard metallic element, 
  constituting approximately three per cent of the earth's crust, a basic 
  component of bone, shells, and leaves. It occurs naturally in limestone, 
  gypsum, and fluorite, and its compounds are used to make plaster, 
  quicklime, Portland cement, and metallurgic and electronic materials. 
  Atomic number 20; atomic weight 40.08; melting point 842 to 848 deg.C; 
  boiling point 1,487 deg.C; specific gravity 1.55; valence 2.[NLat. <Lat. 
  calx,  lime.^ see calx]

I'm no chemist, but I would expect that calcium phosphate comes from
inorganic (I don't mean the chemical term) sources.

Perhaps someone more knowledgable can answer definitively.

Regards,
Tom
From: tjfeue@bb1t.monsanto.com
Newsgroups: rec.food.veg
Subject: Re: AR Prisoners
Date: 3 Nov 92 13:02:57 CST
Organization: Monsanto Company, St. Louis, MO

In article <1992Oct30.204916.25620@eng.umd.edu>, dbader@eng.umd.edu 
(David Bader) writes:
> In article <1992Oct30.164319.7370@sol.cs.wmich.edu> 
thmiley@sol.cs.wmich.edu (Tim Miley) writes:
>>Then, according to your logic, we should sit on our hands and watch birds
>>get blown away by a bunch of drooling slobs with guns.  
>>You claim to support
>>animal rights, but you don't want to stick your neck out to support.  Oh, 
>>great!  An animal rights couch-potato.

> No. 

Right!  Now, please read both examples that follow.

*EXAMPLE:  NEGATIVE VERSION - REV. 1.0*
  
Tim, listen to your tone you whiney little syphilitic faggot!  You 
sound like some gutless worm with an IQ in negative numbers!  Get
a life and shut the fuck up until you learn to deal with adults!

GEE!!!!  DON'T I SOUND NASTY!  DO YOU WANT TO READ MORE?  WILL YOU LISTEN
TO MORE?  DO YOU NOW HATE ME?  

PROBABLE ANSWERS = NO, NO, YES!        

*EXAMPLE:  POSITIVE VERSION - REV. 1.0*

Tim, I can understand your level of frustration, and you seem
to care very much about this issue, but there *are* other ways to effect
change.  To refer to your opponent in such terms not only angers them
but makes them deaf to your point of view.  It may even *increase* the
behavior that so disturbs you, and that is counter productive. 

DIFFERENT?  YOU BET, BUT I BASICLY SAID THE SAME THING!    

> For example, in the case of pigeon shoots, I want to see activists
> YEAR-ROUND calling their congresspeople and lobbying for laws barring
> such atrocities. Don't just become active for the weekend of the
> Heggins Park shoot in PA.  If you want to trespass and harass citizens
> who are _not_ breaking the law, then so be it - but that only creates
> enemies between the two groups.  We have to work TOGETHER (animal
> rights activists *and* the citizens who like killing animals with
> guns) to solve this! 

David is right and see the movie Ghandi.  He brought down an empire.

Ted Feuerbach - Scientific Systems Consultant
Disclaimer:  Monsanto didn't say this, I did!
From: tms@cs.umd.edu (Tom Swiss (not Swift, not Suiss, Swiss!))
Newsgroups: rec.food.veg
Subject: Re: Conclusions about Ted Altar
Date: 13 Nov 92 19:39:31 GMT
Organization: The Reality Liberation Front (pixels to the people!)

proberts@informix.com (Paul Roberts) writes:
>In article <1992Nov12.063839.20343@abo.fi> abulsari@abo.fi (Abhay Bulsari VT) writes:
>>
>>You people are really humour impaired.   You have  to  see a smiley or
>>hear someone laughing before you know that it was supposed to be joke.
>>I don't use  smileys and expect people to understand a joke as a joke,
>>which is clearly the case here.  Who am I to decide who counts and who
>>does not ?
>
> Check out soc.culture.british. It is an unwritten rule there that no-one
>uses smileys, you are supposed to be able to work out what is meant to me
>humourous and what is meant to be funny by (a) reading it, and (b) thinking
>about it. There's a lot to be said for this habit, I think.

     Doesn't work very well in practice, though. Not just because people
have trouble spotting sarcasm (they do), but because there's always someone
who seriously beleives even the most outrageous statement you can think of.
For example, let's say I wrote that feminism lead to infanticide and
Satanism. Now, people who know me well would know that this was some
sarcastic reference. But there are people who actually _believe this!_
(Pat Robertson, former Republician presidential candidate and religious
wacko, for instance.) Analysis of the statement is not always enough
to detect sarcasm.

     Remember, a _lot_ of people thought Swift's _Modest Proposal_ was
serious.

===============================================================================
Tom Swiss/tms@cs.umd.edu  |  "Born to die"   |   Keep your laws off my brain!
     "What's so funny 'bout peace, love and understanding?" - Nick Lowe 
                     Keep your values off my family.
     "In all criminal prosecutions, the accused shall enjoy the right to
      a speedy and public trial, by an impartial jury of the State and
      district wherein the crime shall have been committed, which
      district shall have been previously ascertained by law, and to be
      informed of the nature and cause of the accusation; to be
      confronted with the witnesses against him; to have compulsory
      process for obtaining witnesses in his favor, and to have the
      Assistance of Counsel for his defence."
      -- The Constitution of the United States of America
Newsgroups: rec.food.veg
From: nlc@vulcan.xtel.co.uk (Neil Cook)
Subject: Re: Get real, Abhay!
Organization: X-Tel Services Ltd.
Date: Fri, 13 Nov 92 16:22:30 GMT

In article <1992Nov12.064002.20455@abo.fi>, abulsari@abo.fi (Abhay Bulsari VT) writes:
|> >
|> >I didn't want to join this flame-fest, but this is just too much.  In other
|> >words, anyone who doesn't agree with you doesn't count.  Rather easy to rack up
|> >a consensus that way, don't you think?
|> 
|> Read  my previous  followup.  I am surprised that people can no longer
|> recognise a joke without seeing smileys.
|> 
|> Abhay

I suggest the creation of a new group...

rec.food.boring-articles-about-nutrition-and-what-they're-doing-to-bessie-the-cow-in-the-field-down-the-road-it-really-is-quite-disgusting-and-immoral-and-why-oh-why-does-everyone-eat-fat-I-think-we-should-all-eat-sawdust-cos-Mike-Traub-says-so.

I don't use my kill file so much in this group, cos I get everyone round to laugh
at Abhays' postings.

Neil Cook.
From: vprasad@uoft02.utoledo.edu
Newsgroups: rec.food.veg
Subject: Re: Is Respect For Nature Enough?
Date: 8 Nov 92 12:57:35 EST
Organization: University of Toledo, Computer Services

 georgec@eng.umd.edu (George B. Clark) writes:
> 
> Ted, it is unclear why you persist in posting in a vegetarians' newsgroup
> these lengthy articles on ethics, the environment, animal rights, and
> whatever.
> 
> My interest in vegetarianism is restricted to its health benefits and
> the fact that not eating meat reduces my grocery bill. Other participants
> feel likewise. At least this was true for the duration of your exile,
> motivated by your fear of Steve Dyer and others who corrected your
> misleading medical assertions.
> 
> You will find a more willing audience, if you instead post these articles to:
> 
>      sci.environment
>      talk.environment
>      talk.politics.animals
> 
> I assume you were unaware these newsgroups exist. Now that you know, you
> can't plead ignorance.

	Not all participants on this forum share your opinion, George. I
	for one, am a born vegetarian, but am very much interested in the
	moral and ethical aspects of vegetarianism than its economics .For
	me, the economics is a non-issue and I don't worry too much about
	the health aspects (I have occasionally pigged out on butter and
	ghee).

	I find Ted Altar to be a very informative poster. He provided
	numerous references in his articles, which helped me broaden my
	knowledge of various fields like nutrition, philosophical arguments
	in favor of animal rights, world hunger and poverty etc. He earned
	my deepest respect with his excellent articles.   

	I have peeked once on talk.politics.animals, but I found it
	to be too chaotic for my taste. All too often, people would resort
	to personal insults on that newsgroup. I wouldn't even dream of
	reading it again. I would rather like to have such posts on this
	forum. 

	I would be rather upset if Ted leaves again. Please, Ted, do not go
	into hibernation again - George not withstanding, there is a
	substantial portion of the participants who enjoy your posts! But
	if you can, just shorten your posts a bit please! :-)

	Siva Prasad.			vprasad@uoft02.utoledo.edu 
Newsgroups: rec.food.veg
From: rik@world.std.com (Rik Ahlberg)
Subject: Boston Veg ?'s
Organization: The World Public Access UNIX, Brookline, MA
Date: Thu, 12 Nov 1992 01:15:10 GMT


Newsgroups: rec.food.veg
From: nrlfs1.nrl.navy.mil (Judy Karpen)
Subject: Re: Hummus recipes
Organization: NRL
Date: Thu, 12 Nov 1992 23:23:08 GMT

In addition to the posted recipes, try adding any of the following:

chop well in food processor after garlic but before adding chickpeas etc.:
celery (including leaves)
carrots
parsley
cilantro leaves
scallions
olives (green or black)
raw turnips (peeled) or radishes

Spices: cumin, hot pepper (in any form), coriander, black pepper. Don't bother
with paprika, it only has taste when it's cooked (and looks pretty, as noted).
BTW, what's so terrible about using garam masala, Mr. Sternlight? So it isn't
official -- who cares, as long as it tastes good? Besides, coriander and
cumin are often components of g.m. so it's not so far off base. Geez.... :*>

Liquids: soy sauce (much better than plain salt), orange juice (instead of
lemon juice --- it's good, really), lime juice (ditto), balsamic vinegar 
(ditto)

To cut down on fat: add little or no tahini, and NO oil (alas, without tahini
it doesn't taste as good, frankly, but a little gives a good flavor) 

Enjoy the experiments! I don't bother with a recipe anymore, just dump stuff
in the processor until it looks right. Good way to clean out the vegetable
bin, at least....

Judy Karpen
karpen@nrlfs1.nrl.navy.mil


Newsgroups: rec.food.veg
From: young@serum.kodak.com (Rich Young)
Subject: Re: Health Advantages of Vegetarianism (rebuttals from June)
Originator: young@sasquatch
Reply-To: young@serum.kodak.com
Organization: Clinical Diagnostics Division, Eastman Kodak Company
Date: Mon, 9 Nov 92 17:19:25 GMT

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Article 20448 of sci.skeptic:
From: carl@SOL1.GPS.CALTECH.EDU (Carl J Lydick)
Subject: Re: Rifkin (Was: Vegetarian reason)
Reply-To: carl@SOL1.GPS.CALTECH.EDU
Organization: HST Wide Field/Planetary Camera
Date: Tue, 16 Jun 1992 07:15:31 GMT

In article <1992Jun16.051026.9865@csl.sri.com>, boucher@roche.csl.sri.com (Peter K. Boucher) writes:
>I'm curious.  Do you believe that because studies have shown that
>Americans who drink moderate amounts of alcohol actually live longer
>than total abstainers, abstainers should begin to drink alcohol 
>(moderately) in order to live longer?

No, I don't.  We still don't know what it is about the moderate drinkers that
seems to increase their longevity.  It's quite possible that it's not the
consumption of alcohol that increases longevity, but some other aspect of their
behavior and/or attitude which happens to be correlated with moderate drinking.
Ideally, it would be nice to see a double blind experiment that tried to
isolate the effect of the alcohol from things that might be correlated with
alcohol consumption.  Unfortunately, such a study would take several decades,
and would have to be limited to VERY small doses of alcohol to keep it a double
blind experiment.

>This appears to be much the same as the argument "SDA veggies live longer than
>SDA meat-eaters, so meat-eaters should become vegetarian in order to live
>longer."

You're right, it is much the same argument.  In both cases, there's a
correlation between a particular sort of behavior and longevity, but the data
(as far as I can tell) doesn't give us any useful insights into causality. 
In both cases, it appears to me that there aren't adequate controls in the
studies for anybody reasonably to make prescriptive statements based on them.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Carl J Lydick | INTERnet: CARL@SOL1.GPS.CALTECH.EDU | NSI/HEPnet: SOL1::CARL

Disclaimer:  Hey, I understand VAXen and VMS.  That's what I get paid for.  My
understanding of astronomy is purely at the amateur level (or below).  So
unless what I'm saying is directly related to VAX/VMS, don't hold me or my
organization responsible for it.  If it IS related to VAX/VMS, you can try to
hold me responsible for it, but my organization had nothing to do with it.


Article 1566 of talk.politics.animals:
Newsgroups: talk.politics.animals
From: 900082m@ace.acadiau.ca (KATHLEEN MCLEAN)
Subject: Re: coconut flakes
Organization: Acadia University
Distribution: usa
Date: Wed, 11 Nov 1992 18:08:30 GMT

In article <1992Nov11.030947.19818@eskimo.celestial.com> chips@eskimo.celestial.com (:crp:) writes:
>
>Does anyone know where (or how) i can get UNsweetened coconut flakes?
>The Bakers's flakes are just way too sweet.	Thanks.
>
	I bought some yesterday at my local natural foods store.  They were
not very sweet at all. Try  find a health food store.  Or a bulk food place.
				km
Newsgroups: rec.food.veg
From: rcj10@cus.cam.ac.uk (Craig Jamieson)
Subject: only in animal products?
Organization: U of Cambridge, England
Distribution: World
Date: Thu, 12 Nov 1992 16:47:24 GMT

Article 424 of alt.sex.wizards:
Newsgroups: alt.sex.wizards,alt.sex.motss,alt.sex.bondage
From: mcoffin@IASTATE.EDU (Marie Coffin)
Subject: Re: Semen taste
Reply-To: mcoffin@IASTATE.EDU (Marie Coffin)
Organization: Iowa State University
Date: Wed, 11 Nov 1992 04:06:22 GMT

In article <q3c2TB8w165w@shakala.uucp>, melchar@shakala.rahul.net (Barbara
Haddad) writes:
> > > From my understanding, high levels of the vitamin B12 have a significant
> > > affect on body odor--in particular, the scent that attracts insects.  The
> > > higher the level of B12 in your system (up to a certain limit, I assume)
> > > the less bugs of most types will be attracted to you.  My brother had a
> > > hell of a time with mosquitos until a doctor told him to take B12 to keep
> > > them away.  But I doubt this has ANYTHING to do with semen taste... :)
> > > 
> > 
> > It's interesting that B12 is the *only* vitamin that you *can't* get in a 
> > vegetarian diet.  I sense some contradiction here...
> > 
> > Marie Coffin
> 
>       The vegetarians I know take vitamin suppliments.  This is not in 
> any way a scientific sample, but since the folks I know who choose not to 
> eat meat are very exacting about their diet, perhaps they have _more_ B12 
> in their diet than omnivores.  (Just a thought)
> 

Good point.  A completely vegetarian diet has *no* B12 in it.  B12 is 
found only in animal products.  Therefore, a complete vegetarian who 
is concerned about good health would take B12 supplements, and probably
end up with more than the rest of us get.  (It's only necessary in very
small amounts -- I think the RDA is in micrograms, or something.)  
Thanks for pointing this out, Barbara!


Marie Coffin
From: jlacey@cbnewsl.cb.att.com (james.w.lacey)
Newsgroups: rec.food.veg
Subject: Re: Kindred spirits (Vegans)
Date: 12 Nov 92 21:58:46 GMT
Distribution: na
Organization: AT&T

In article <1992Nov11.012606.1479@imagen.com> avi@seal.imagen.com writes:
>>     Uri Geller? Ulp! Yikes! How distressing to learn that I have something
>>in common with such a charlatan. Ah well. An idea is not responsible
>>for who believes it.
>
>1. Geller a Charlatan ? This is news to me, as I still remember in my childhood
>...
The "stage" magician James "The Amazing" Randi, as leader of a
group of skeptics/debunkers has uncovered Gellers "tricks".
If you are really interested, look into sci.skeptics (?) for info.

>   Quick examples of 2 famous vegetarians: Adolf Hitler & Mahatma Ghandi...

While Ghandi was a vegetarian, Hitler was not.  He was supposedly
quite fond of sausages.


-- 
     Jim Lacey  --  my own opinions    
     email:  att!cbnewsl!jlacey  or  jlacey@cbnewsl.cb.att.com
     D'ou venons-nous? Que sommes-nous? Ou allons-nous?
Newsgroups: rec.food.veg