HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: joec@fid.morgan.com (Joe Collins)
Subject: I love Saturn!
Organization: Morgan Stanley & Co., New York, NY
Date: Mon, 31 Aug 1992 21:08:39 GMT

We own a 1991 Saturn SC and my wife called me said the brakes
failed, i.e. she had a problem stopping. The car has 12,100 miles
on it. We have had it for 14 months or so.

My wife is not car-savy, i.e. a consumer only, knows little
about cars. She didn't try the parking brake or see what brakes 
were really available. 

I called the Saturn Assistance Center and they immediately dispatched
a tow truck to where my wife was. They towed it some 25 miles or so to the
dealer. The dealer said the brakes had simply overheated (she was stuck 
in stop/go traffic). The brakes had recovered themselves automatically
but the dealer carefully checked the car out anyway. No problems found.
The brakes apparently are somehow self-adjusting and the brake system
recovered itself within 10 minutes or so. The dealer says the brake system 
cannot totally fail, due to its design. Normal recovery time when brakes
fade like this is about 10 minutes.

This cost me NOTHING although the car was out of action for 2 hours 
or so. While the car was there, they performed the normal 12000 mile
service as well (for the usual fee). Lastly, they noticed our passenger 
side door was damaged and said it would be fixed, for free. They would
replace it, not repair it, for free.

I have NO complaints - the service manager had said 'please bring it in -
Lets make SURE there are no problems'. All too often, a car dealer
might say 'tough' - this dealer and Saturn went out of their way to be
supportive.

Joe
joec@morgan.com



Xref: sparky rec.autos:21210 rec.autos.sport:9473 talk.politics.drugs:6069 talk.politics.misc:43279
From: geoff@ITcorp.com (Geoff Kuenning)
Newsgroups: rec.autos,rec.autos.sport,talk.politics.drugs,talk.politics.misc
Subject: Re: NHRA announces Piss Testing
Date: 2 Sep 92 09:46:38 GMT
Organization: Interrupt Technology Corporation, Manhattan Beach, CA

I have a couple of questions here, which relate to my own personal
biases regarding piss tests:

(1) Does the NHRA have a history of serious personal injury (including
    death) which is traceable to substance abuse?
(2) Are there substances which have been demonstrated to improve NHRA
    race results?

If the answer to (1) is yes, then I believe piss tests are justified
in the interests of general safety.  Despite my generally rabid
attitudes on personal freedom, I would even support drug testing when
the only person endangered is the user, UNDER THE CONDITION that there
is strong pressure from outside parties (such as sponsors) to win.
(The latter sentence is based on the situation on bicycle racing,
where the pressure is so strong that otherwise-sensible individuals
have been known to endanger their own health to achieve better
results.)

If the answer to (2) is yes, then piss testing might be justified on
the grounds that failure to test is unfair to drivers who don't want
to risk their health.  It also might be justified on the assumption
that NHRA racing is fundamentally a contest of human abilities, and
that chemical aids are not valid factor (of course, neither are exotic
engines...but then doesn't NHRA inspect engines for conformance to the
rules?).

Beyond these, I can't see much justification for piss testing.  Feel
free to correct me if I'm wrong.  But it seems to me that the only
valid reasons for regulating *any* racing behavior are (1) general
safety, and (2) protecting the little guy from manipulation by the big
guy.
-- 
	Geoff Kuenning   geoff@ITcorp.com   uunet!desint!geoff
From: philg@zurich.ai.mit.edu (Philip Greenspun)
Newsgroups: rec.autos
Subject: Re: Broken seat back ('86 Mustang LX) Ford in general
Date: 2 Sep 92 18:16:15 GMT
Reply-To: philg@martigny.ai.mit.edu
Distribution: na
Organization: M.I.T. Artificial Intelligence Lab.
In-reply-to: minor@rtsg.mot.com's message of 1 Sep 92 18:59:39 GMT

In article <minor.715373979@coal8> minor@rtsg.mot.com (Kevin Minor) writes:

   Until recently, I would never buy a Ford. The majority of people I know
   with Fords have them in the shop frequently.
   But being in the market for a SUV, the explorer is definitely under
   consideration. But is this the kind of service that I should expect from
   Ford ? What are other Ford owners experiences ?

6 months in the shop on 13 separate occasions during my first 18
months of ownership.  Ford has never successfully fixed any of the
serious engine control, brake or suspension/tire vibration problems
with the vehicles.  Ford has breached their explicit warranty that
promises a free loaner car and/or rental car reimbursement.  After I
sued them in Small Claims Court, they hired a vicious lawyer who
threatened to sue me for "distributing privileged information about
Ford".

I've written letters to executives and gotten no response (not even a
form letter back from a secretary).  I've sent them free engineering
advice on how they could fix some of their brain-damaged software.
I've called their 800 number (they promise to call back, but almost
never do).

A local consumer lawyer said that Ford is the most tenacious of the
car companies in fighting its own customers.  He told me of one case
where Ford spent $50,000 to litigate a poor lemon-owner into the
ground.

Philip Greenspun
MIT Department of Electrical Engineering
Newsgroups: rec.autos
From: rgass@yesac.ColumbiaSC.NCR.COM (Roy.Gass)
Subject: Dealer Cost (Taurus, Sable Wagons)
Originator: rgass@yesac.ColumbiaSC.NCR.COM
Organization: NCR Corp
Distribution: usa
Date: Wed, 02 Sep 92 19:40:23 GMT


Anybody got it?
From: mperlman@nyx.cs.du.edu (Marshal "Airborne" Perlman)
Subject: Re: Which car vax to use?
Organization: University of Denver, Dept. of Math & Comp. Sci.
Date: Mon, 24 Aug 92 01:47:57 GMT

andchan@newton.amath.umanitoba.ca (Andrew Chan) writes:

>I have a relatively new (1991, non-metallic paint) car and am wondering
>which car vax I should use.

>Plain old car vax?  NuFinish?  Luster 7?  Colorcote?

>Up here in Winnipeg, it is too cold for vaxing a car outdoors during
>winter, so I get to vax my car only once or twice a year (within the
>4 month window during summer).  I wonder if those "once a year" products
>actually work.

>Thanks...

>-- 
>We are a rare as well as an endangered species.  Every one of us is,
>in the cosmic perspective, precious.  If a human disagrees with you,
>let him live.  In a hundred billion galaxies, you will not find another.
>

last time i checked vax is a type of computer.....

you canadians drink too much brew...

WAX is the word.
--
No part of Marshal may be reproduced, stored in a retrieval system,
translated, transcribed, or transmitted, in any form, or by any means manual,
electric, electronic, electromagnetic, mechanical, chemical, optical, or
otherwise, without prior explicit written permission from CPEX development.
Newsgroups: rec.autos,rec.autos.vw,rec.autos.sport,rec.autos.tech
From: bakc@giraffe.ru.ac.za (MR KR COMAN)
Subject: Re: Polish VW Joke
Organization: Rhodes University, Grahamstown, South Africa
Date: Wed, 2 Sep 1992 05:46:55 GMT

In article <issa.715118316@cwis> issa@cwis.unomaha.edu (Issa El-Hazin) writes:

Reminds me (prior post) of "Candid Camera"-type gag.   Crew rigs up a big ol'
clunker by taking out the engine.   Start at the top of a hill and roll the 
car down.  Guy behind the wheel swings into petrol station and says to fill 
it up.  Petrol goes in.  Then the guy says to please check the oil and water.
Pizza-Face the pump-jockey opens bonnet.......
	Big drama, fetch manager, 'This guy took my engine' etc., etc,.

Keith
Newsgroups: rec.autos
From: mcmahon@owlnet.rice.edu (Michael G. McMahon)
Subject: Is there a car alarm FAQ?
Summary: help
Organization: Rice University
Distribution: usa
Date: Tue, 25 Aug 1992 21:44:14 GMT

If so, please point me at it.  If not, please send me all you know on
them.  Or tell me which newsgroup I REALLY want to ask.

   My girlfriend wants to put an alarm in her 92 Mazda Protege.  She
works in one the scarier Houston suburbs.  Thanks.
  Peace,
  -mike

-- 
There is a level of cowardice lower than that of the conformist:
  the fashionable non-conformist.   -ayn rand
From: eli@spdcc.com (Steve Elias)
Newsgroups: rec.autos
Subject: Re: HONDA CIVIC awesomeness CONTINUES
Date: 31 Aug 92 14:16:25 GMT
Organization: S.P. Dyer Computer Consulting, Cambridge MA


 erich.lim@cutting.hou.tx.us (Erich Lim) writes:
>-> You obviously have not priced the current line of Civics with
>-> equivalent options...
>
> Al, I agree with you, people think that for the price of BMW's, MB's,
>Jag's, and Porsche's they should be big, fast, comfortable, no maintance
>needed, and silent.  That's just a sterotype (some people are pretty
>ignorant).

the bottom o line BMW really isn't that expensive, given
what new cars cost today.

>  Honda's are EXPENSIVE, a top of the line CIVIC costs
>$16,000!!

$15k, fyi.

> That's ridiculous and they always advertise them for $11,000.

geez, that would be false advertising.  
the civic CX is $8k, fyi.

> Yeah, no power anything, no A/C, no radio, etc. 

the top of the line civic has power everything (except seat).
get with the program, stylish dude!

>line Integra GS-R costs $22,000.  The prices of Honda's are getting out
>of hand and I don't see how they can be affordable and cheap anymore.

$8k for a CX is pretty cheap.  air bag too.
i agree their prices have gone way up, but part of it 
is this "upscale" movement from Honda.  at the rate they
are going, Accord will be the size of a 72 caddy fleetwood by 1996!

the 92 civic is bigger than the 87 accord!

>Even the 1991 models were quite a bit cheaper than the 92's. 

yep.  about $1k cheaper.  redesign and airbags in the 92s
cost a few bux.  beware that the 91 base (CX) motor is possibly
a better motor than the 92 CX motor.  91 has 16 valves, 92 has 8.

> Oh well,
>for all the people "FLAMING" me for my opinion on money spent on BMW's
>over Honda's,  put an end to it.  Or, I'll be flaming you also.

eek!

/eli
-- 
/* eli@spdcc.com */
From: jsb@ecl.psu.edu
Newsgroups: rec.autos
Subject: Brand stigmas  was:RE:Mitsubishi 3000GT-VR4, Toyota MR-2 Turbo
Date: 1 Sep 92 13:06:27 EDT
Organization: Engineering Computer Lab, Pennsylvania State University

In article <1992Aug31.222636.6335@datamark.co.nz>, thomas@datamark.co.nz (Thomas Beagle) writes:
 
> They praised the Ferrari for its excellent handling. It seems that the
> handling and steering was very direct and could easily be induced into
> serious oversteer, therefore proving that it was in the Ferrari
> tradition.
> 
> They praised the MR2 for its excellent handling. They then abused it
> for being touchy at the limit.
> 
> There's an inconsistency there that I can't quite place my finger
> on...

I think a lot of how a car is expected to perform is based on
stereotypes... Ferrari's and Porsches (911's anyway) are expected
to be exceedingly difficult to control at the limit. They can
however, in the hands of an "expert", outperform a more timid and
forgiving car in the same general catagory. Many of the newer 
"budget" sports cars (under $35K) and sports coupes ARE remarkably
capable, while not being the least bit hostile to drive. I think
that many people who have driven the exotics tend to view the MR2's,
Talons, Daytonas, etc, as cars for dumb blondes, or wimps. When one
of these cars proves how capable it is alongside of a Ferrari, the
immediate reaction is that some uncoordinated klutz is gonna kill
him/herself in it because its performance envelope is to wide
to be placed in the hands of an idiot.
It's really quite sad that a lot of really good cars don't get the
respect they deserve, just because they don't have a prestigous
logo rivited onto their bodies.

Of course, there are a number of other silly stigmas too. For
instance, the only real MAN'S car is one powered by an overgrown
pushrod V8 of 20 years previous vintage. Never mind that it hogs
gas to beat hell and handles like a wheelbarrow with a wheel missing.
It seems that some people will overlook any deficiency in a vehicles
true value just so they can maintain some kind of image that is based
on little or no substance.

Greg
jsb@ecl.psu.edu

Newsgroups: rec.autos,rec.autos.tech,rec.autos.driving
From: smith@comm.mot.com (Jeff Smith)
Subject: Re: McLaren F1
Organization: Motorola Land Mobile Products Sector
Date: Wed, 26 Aug 1992 20:16:05 GMT

In article <1992Aug24.214416.5294@igor.tamri.com>, salil@igor.tamri.com (Salil Saxena) writes:

|> 
|> Regardless, you will not be able to drive an F1 on US streets (legally).
|> 
I thought I read that the F1 met all U.S. emissions and safety standards,
but they just weren't going to bother with the formalities. I'm sure if
you had a million to blow on a car, you could shell out the extra bucks
and "grey-market" one in here. After all, I've seen BMW M1s and Z1s, and
Ferrari Boxers (512?) none of which were factory certified.

jds
Newsgroups: rec.autos
From: zjw@wpi.WPI.EDU (Zhijun Wang)
Subject: Honda Civic
Organization: Worcester Polytechnic Institute
Date: Fri, 28 Aug 1992 20:01:43 GMT

Greetings World..

	I have an opportunity to buy a 1986 Honda Civic.
It is a four door automatic, with A.C., sun roof.  It has
76K miles on it.  The asking price is $3,300.  Is this a
good price?  I would greatly appreciate any informed
opinions.

	Thanks a lot,
			Wong
Newsgroups: rec.autos
From: jcyuhn@crchh574.BNR.CA (James Yuhn)
Subject: Re: $758 for an oil chang
Reply-To: jcyuhn@crchh574.BNR.CA (James Yuhn)
Organization: Bell-Northern Research Ltd.
Date: Fri, 28 Aug 1992 15:07:23 GMT

In article <9344.74.uupcb@cutting.hou.tx.us>, david.bonds@cutting.hou.tx.us
(David Bonds)  writes:

    [ Various Deletions ]
|> 
|>I'll also get their 6qt carton of Redline MTL - which
|>brings up another interesting point.  The DIY book for the Taurus lists
|>the manual transmission of the SHO having a fluid refull capacity of 6.2
|>pints - if my conversion memory is corrent (2pts=1qt), isn't this just
|>under what would be needed for 2 SHOs?  Hmm... Maybe I'll get a friend
|>to go in half on that one!  ;-)
|>
|>
|>- Dave Bonds 
|>- Internet : David.Bonds@cutting.hou.tx.us
|>--- 
 
  I've changed the transmission lubricant in my SHO twice. Each time
  I only managed to drain about two quarts. So either the capacity 
  listed in all the publications is not accurate, or it's just one of
  those transmissions where you can't get all the lubricant out. 
 
  My recommendation would be to skip the order from CSR. Their prices
  look pretty steep to me, and you definately don't need six quarts - 
  that's enough for almost three fluid changes. Either order direct 
  from Redline (800-529-8609), or look for your local Amsoil jobber
  in the yellow pages. (Under 'lubricants' or 'Oils - lubricating')
  
  If you've never heard of Amsoil, they are a small firm much like 
  Redline. They specialize in synthetic oils and lubricants, though
  they seem to target the commercial market more than the racing /
  high performance market. The products they sell are essentially
  identical to Redline. They sell through direct marketing, much
  like Amway. Just yesterday I picked up some 75w-90 gear lube 
  (equivalent to Redline MTL) for $6.88 per quart.  
 
  Rereading this, it sounds a bit too much like an advertisement. 
  I'll add the obligatory statement that I have no connection to 
  Amsoil other than as a satisfied customer. 
 
----------------------
Jim Yuhn
Bell Northern Research
Richardson, Texas
From: geoff@ITcorp.com (Geoff Kuenning)
Newsgroups: rec.autos
Subject: Re: What the curious saw at the local Dodge dealership
Keywords: Cars. Two. Nice. HORRIBLY EXPENSIVE.
Date: 2 Sep 92 10:01:21 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: Interrupt Technology Corporation, Manhattan Beach, CA

In article <1992Sep1.131733.28745@metter.fmpmis.metter.com> virgo@metter.fmpmis.metter.com (curious vIRgO) writes:

> "Well, if ya couldn't have this car, at least there's a low cost alternative
>  in front[Stealth]". They had marked the car down to $19K,but he said they
> COULD make a deal to $16K. This was the AWD/Turbo version, by the way.

*Wow*.  I paid $18K or so for my 1990 Eclipse GSX (AWD/Turbo) ($20K by
the time all the taxes, etc., were added, sigh).  The Stealth has lots
more get-up-and-go, though I'm less sure about cornering ability.  But
$16K for that much car sure sounds like a deal to me.
-- 
	Geoff Kuenning   geoff@ITcorp.com   uunet!desint!geoff
From: aland@informix.com (Colonel Panic)
Newsgroups: rec.autos
Subject: Re: "info on 93 Probe wanted"
Date: 31 Aug 92 09:28:31 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: The Helen Keller Bondurant High Performance Driving School for the Blind

In article <ellisk.715197202@fido.Colorado.EDU> ellisk@fido.Colorado.EDU writes:
>aland@informix.com (Colonel Panic) writes:
>>>windows and locks, and a rear windshield wiper.  Funny thing is, going
>>>by dealer cost (optained from Consumer Reports) the GT with the
>>>'premium' package costs only $500 or so more than a 'regular' package
>>>equipped Probe plus ABS and Cruise Control.  Something to think about.
>
>>Either you are misreading the CR info, or the info itself is bogus.
>>The actual difference at invoice prices is over $2400.  (I'm reading the
>>actual Ford dealer cost sheet).
>
>I've got the Consumer Reports price sheet right here:  Going by the
>numbers in front of me.  All are reported to be 'dealer cost':

Your article implied that you were comparing the GT + Premium vs. the 
Probe (base) + ABS + Speed Control; that's where I got the $2400 from.

>1993 Ford Probe GT 
>base (manual) price:	$13,692

Actually $13,670.  All other figures were OK.

>I also deleted the 'keyless entry system' ($117) from my order.  

It's not available yet anyway, unless things have changed in the past
few weeks.  The had production problems with it (likewise with the Yellow
paint and with leather seats).

>Hope to be getting it in 4-6 weeks. 

Mine should be here in 3 weeks (which would be about 9 weeks from order date).

>color will be 'Electric Blue Metallic'.  

My second choice; I finally decided on the Bimini Blue because I didn't want
another really dark exterior (too much sun here).  Way cool color though.

>(And here I didn't order red because I didn't want it to be a cop magnet. :-) 

Like it won't, anyway?   [-:
I didn't care for either of the reds.  I wish they had the "medium canyon red"
available like they used to use on the SVOs.

>>In one of the current rags (Road and Track?), five of their reviewers
>>compare the Probe GT and four competitors.  *All* picked the Probe GT when
>>price was considered, and 3 picked the Probe GT regardless of price.
>
>The winner of the 'non-price-dependent' competition was the Corrado SLC,

Among the *staff members*, yes.  Among the five "consumer" reviwers, the
Probe won both categories (price-independent had one vote for the Corrado
and one for the Diamond Star AWD).

>Michael K. Ellis
>ellisk@fido.colorado.edu

--
Alan Denney      aland@informix.com      {pyramid|uunet}!infmx!aland

"I must have gone through 20 Porsches in the last 15 years.  Now I own 
 a Ferrari Testarossa.  My body would reject a Plymouth."
        -- Willie Brown, speaker of the California State Assembly
Newsgroups: rec.autos
From: panos@tigger.cs.Colorado.EDU (Panos Tsirigotis)
Subject: Re: LASAR DETECTOR..
Organization: University of Colorado, Boulder
Date: Fri, 28 Aug 1992 17:29:31 GMT

In article <9340.74.uupcb@cutting.hou.tx.us> erich.lim@cutting.hou.tx.us (Erich Lim) writes:
>
> pal@angelo.amd.com (P.A.L.) writes:
>-> Since they are coming out with a laser radar (ie. light beam instead
>-> of RF) eventually all the existing radar detectors will become
>-> useless.
>
>   Nope, very few cops have Lasar's due to their high costs.  Very few
>urban areas have lasers, so existing (X,K,Ka) radar detectors are still
>very useful.  You can be laser detectors for as low as $99 from
>Passport, many other manufactures such as BEL, Uniden, and Cobra also
>have laser detecting units out.  Instead of using laser, many law
>enforcement agencies are now using Stalker, which is extended Ka band
>which most radar detecors can't detect.  But then again, all of the new
>radar detectors on the market have the extended Ka band to detect
>Stalker.
>
>  Erich Lim
>   Internet add:   erich.lim@cutting.hou.tx.us
>

Ok, here are a few questions that may be of interest to a lot of us:

1) Is there a list of places where Stalker is used ? or are you aware
of an area where Stalker is being used (maybe we can compile a list).

2) Can users of Valentine 1 provide critiques of their units ? i.e. how
useful is the directional warning, the number of signal sources, how good 
is the sensitivity of the detector etc.

3) Have any users of laser detectors being saved from a ticket because of
sufficiently advance warning from their detector ? i.e. is the thing useful ?

Panos

-- 
Panos Tsirigotis, CS grad                        
Pmail: Computer Science Dept., U. of Colorado @ Boulder, Boulder, CO 80309-0430
Email: panos@cs.colorado.edu
Newsgroups: rec.autos,rec.autos.tech,misc.consumers,sci.environment,talk.environment
From: pruss@helix.nih.gov (dmitry pruss)
Subject: Re: Carburetors, gasoline, and why I don't recycle
Keywords: BOOM
Organization: National Institutes of Health, Bethesda
Date: Fri, 4 Sep 1992 13:07:58 GMT

In article <1992Sep2.234619.4253@ringer.cs.utsa.edu> tmcdonal@ringer.cs.utsa.edu (Tom McDonald) writes:
>In article <1992Sep2.173112.15476@news.acns.nwu.edu> drt@casbah.acns.nwu.edu (Robert Toreki) writes:
>>
>>	With the note here about a H2-fueled car...seems like a great idea. 
>>Then imagine the public horror (liability...) the first time one of these
>>suckers gets creamed in an accident and goes up in a fireball.  Would make a
>>Ford Pinto look like a Bic lighter.  Ever see those signs on the highway
>>"TUNNEL 10 MILES" with huges warnings about carrying compressed gases?  Think
>>there might be a reason for these?  
>>
>>						Rob
>
>I don't remember where I saw it, but this reminds me of an article on if
>the automobile was a new invention today.  
>
>Seller:  "I've invented a horseless carriage 
>
>Marketer:  "Sounds fantastic.  What powers it?"
>
>S: "It runs on an petroleum based liquid called gasoline."
>
>M: "Petroleum based?  Just how flammable is this?"
>
>S: "Well... extremely flammable."
...>
>M: "Let me get this straight.  You're trying to sell a product that runs
>on an extremely flammable solution that is carried by sheet metal and rubber
>hoses to an engine that burns it.  Meanwhile, the people sit on top as this
>is going on?"
>
>M: "I'm sorry ...

Well, let me add my 2 cents:

Moscow Public Transportation Authorities bought a number of natural gas
(methane)-fueled buses 2 years ago. Both economy and pollution effects
seemed tremendous.

A year later thet gave up after an impressive fire (fortunately *not* a
real explosion) 

	D