HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: matthew@pram.cs.ucla.edu (Matthew Merzbacher)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.basketball.college
Subject: Re: BAD News for Arkansas and UMass fans
Date: 23 Jul 92 15:12:10 GMT
Organization: UCLA, Computer Science Department

trradrx@canctr.mc.duke.edu (R.CLOUGH) writes:

>  Speaking of academic standards, who is the only JuCo player that Dean
>Smith has accepted at UNC?

You must mean Bob MacAdoo, who only played for UNC a single year (and then
went Pro).  One of few players who single-handedly dominated games in spite 
of Dean's "system".  Gads he was good.
--

Matthew Merzbacher	ARPA:	matthew@CS.UCLA.EDU
Moo - Moo Moo  		UUCP:	...!{uunet|rutgers|ucbvax}!cs.ucla.edu!matthew
               		This time, *with* the oys
Newsgroups: rec.sport.basketball.college
From: fehr@ms.uky.edu (Jeff Davis)
Subject: Re: Prop 48...
Keywords: Flag, country, ashokan fiddle music, etc.
Date: Tue, 28 Jul 1992 14:42:45 GMT
Organization: Loose Affiliation of Millionaires and Billionaires and Baby

In article <1992Jul28.133823.20269@crd.ge.com> doel@crd.ge.com writes:

   [the longer version of a pro and con prop 48 discussion deleted]
>
>It seems that your basic argument is that "correlation does not
>imply causation."  While true, there are certain cases where we can
>be fairly certain that correlating factors are more important than
>in other cases.  Thus, someone who demonstrates a strong ability to
>comprehend what they read and accurately solve basic mathematical
>problems will in all likelihood perform well in college.  This is
>not surprising since these are some of the skills required to complete
>college work.  The fact that there is only a weak correlation between
>SAT scores and college performance (as reported in other posts) only
>means that the SAT does not do a good job of measuring those skills and
>does not measure other traits which help a person to do well in
>college (a strong work ethic for instance).
>
I haven't argued that there is no correlation between SAT scores
and college performance. I have argued -- or tried to -- that
the weak correlation makes Prop 48 Bad Policy and that simply
using correlations in general (except where you can STRONGLY
imply causality, like in smoking) is using statistics to mask
other reasons for Bad Policy. In the case of Prop 48, I would 
argue that the schools are using the weak correlation to shift 
the burden from themselves to the high school kids. Some on the net
seem to argue that this is a good thing. [Note to self: Is RS
a hireling of the NCAA? Call Ross and see if he can get a PI to
check that out.] It seems to come down to whether you favor ruthless
blood-sucking, blame-shifting Efficiency or whether you favor
equity, freedom, fairness, justice, Motherhood, apple pie, and
family values. I think even the most jaundiced eye can see that,
and we thank you for your attention.
-- 
Jeff Davis <davis@keats.ca.uky.edu> Older than before.
From: rsmith@strobe.ATC.Olivetti.Com (Russ Smith)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.basketball.college
Subject: Re: IU Recruiting - 1993 (or UK??)
Date: 27 Jul 92 20:54:18 GMT
Organization: Olivetti ATC; Cupertino CA, USA

>>Jacque Vaughn           6'0" Guard      Pasadena, CA.
>>   Considering IU, UK, Kansas, Georgetown. 

Well its still early, but that makes UCLA 0 for 2 in the battle for the
senior class in California this year. IU got a commitment from Richard
Mandeville(I keep seeing him listed at 7', he was 6'10" last year, did
he grow or is Bobby trying to convince people that he can recruit good
big guys (-:), and now Vaughn has apparently dropped UCLA off his list
(they were in his top 10 list after last year). they also appear to have
dropped off Randy Livingston's short list. Vaughn was a kid I really
wanted, supposed to be a premier point guard, and a 4.0 GPA last year.
From what I've read he would help us more than Cameron Murray who is
either a small shooting guard(5'10") or a point guard who thinks shot
first(Cameron will be a junior). When I last heard UCLA was still on the
list for both Darnell Robinson (6'11" center from Emeryville) and Charles
O'Bannon(6'6" swingman from Artesia). I'm not sure if they're after
O'Bannon's teammate Avondre Jones(6'11" center) or not, he's not as
highly regarded as Robinson or Mandeville. There are a couple of other
guys in Ca. they are I'm sure interested in, but losing Vaughn and
Mandeville is not a good sign.




Russ Smith
*******************************************************************************
"Mellow is the man, who knows what he's been missing
many, many men can't see the open road".
                                    Over the hills and far away- Led Zeppelin  
******************************************************************************
From: saunders@luther.che.wisc.edu (Brian E. Saunders)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.basketball.college
Subject: Re: RESULTS: Basketball (Day 3 preliminary)
Date: 30 Jul 92 14:23:21 GMT
Organization: University of Wisconsin - Madison

In article <19160@ector.cs.purdue.edu> sjc@cs.purdue.EDU (Steve Chapin) writes:
>}} In article <1992Jul29.210445.29050@alw.nih.gov> etchuck@helix.nih.gov (Emil Thomas Chuck) writes:
>}} 
>}} At the moment, standings are as follows...
>}} ESP 1-1 2			PUR 1-2 2
>                                ^^^^^^^^^
>Damn boilermakers.  What're they doing in international play, anyway?

Well, I imagine they are trying to give smilin' Gene another chance at
playing in an international tournament, after the Pan Am disappointment
last year.  Looks like things haven't changed any...
-- 

Brian E. Saunders			saunders@luther.che.wisc.edu
From: rsmith@strobe.ATC.Olivetti.Com (Russ Smith)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.basketball.college
Subject: Spot the flaw
Date: 29 Jul 92 17:26:48 GMT

Very simple point, I'll give 2 example of similar logic and reasoning
then sit back and let people point out whats wrong.


Assuming there is not a fundamental difference in the ability of people
of different races to excel academically(no race is "smarter" than the
others"), we take averages on the SAT score for all races and discover
blacks score lower on the test than people of other races.

Hypothesis: The SAT is a racially biased test that is written in such
a way that it is biased against blacks.



Example 2

Assuming there is not a fundamental difference in the ability to shoot
a basketball based on ones height(ie. shooting abilitly is not related
to height), we take the average freethrow percentage for guards and
centers and discover that centers shoot freethrows worse than guards
(or tall players shoot freethrows worse than shorter players).

Hypothesis: The free throw is biased against taller players and is designed
in such a way that its unfair to centers.

Now tell me whats the difference in the 2 example, one of which is
considered to be true, the other which sounds pretty silly.





Russ Smith
*******************************************************************************
"Mellow is the man, who knows what he's been missing
many, many men can't see the open road".
                                    Over the hills and far away- Led Zeppelin  
******************************************************************************
From: gln@cs.arizona.edu (Gary L. Newell)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.basketball.college
Subject: Re: Prop 48...
Date: 25 Jul 92 08:44:50 GMT
Organization: U of Arizona CS Dept, Tucson

In article <1992Jul25.055019.18628@jhunix.hcf.jhu.edu>, u_nique@jhunix.hcf.jhu.edu (Jerray Wei) writes:
> In article <19556@optima.cs.arizona.edu> gln@cs.arizona.edu (Gary L. Newell) writes:
> Fuck you.

 Nice to see you too Jerray...

> Always have to have an attitude don't you...

 I was born with an attitude pal and it ain't goona leave because you don't 
like it...

> and it bugs me because I don't
> really think you understand what I have to say anyway.  

Actually, it isn't clear to me that you have the least idea what you
yourself say but that's another issue...

> I never said there
> was no cultural bias.  

 Let's see - you said "I don't buy this "cultural bias stuff"" right? Now
tell me what that sounds like to you Jerray...

> Anything can lead to that.  Certainly well to do
> people have a much better shot at the test than inner city folks, but cultural
> advantages and disadvantages exist everywhere.  
 
 So you admit that the SAT's are biased correct? IF so, then please understand
why someone might perceive your statements as absurd...

> Fact remains that in this
> country you need to have the type of skills that these exams test you on.

 What does that have to do with whether or not a bias exists in the tests?

> Math isn't exactly biased...and English, I'm sure is, but it's proper English.

 Again Jerray, "propper" to whom? To you? To me? I can guarantee that the 
English I use is a bit off norm - what about those who come from a much 
different background?

> If you're going to write anything that people want...that's what they want
> it in.

 Right - they intend a bias and if you do not respond with their bias then
you can expect to pay for it - so I guess we agree....

> So are people from certain backgrounds going to have disadvantages?  Yes, but
> employees aren't going to take cultural disadvantage too seriously.

 The point is not whether or not employers or schools take the cultural
differences to heart- the point is that they exist and bozos like you insist on trying to ignore them rather than recognize them and question the validity
of them - but thats OK - I've seen your "logic" before when it comes to
racial issues...

				gln
Newsgroups: rec.sport.basketball.college
Subject: Re: SAT's and achievement!
From: <KRB104@psuvm.psu.edu>
Date: Mon, 27 Jul 1992 14:00:55 EDT
Organization: Penn State University

In article <drT-Zt#@engin.umich.edu>, martyp@engin.umich.edu (Martin Pochmara)
says:
>
>>concrete, but as I said, I have never seen a study where SAT is a good
>>predictor of collegiate success, and I have read over 1000 studies in the
>area
>>of collegiate education.  If anyone knows of such a study let me know.
>>Kevin
>
>
>Ever wonder if the people studying the SAT are biased? Doesn't that have a
>bearing on this discussion?
>I just wanted to point out that many people who study these tests sometimes
>make their conclusions before they do the testing....and when they do the
>testing, the whole study becomes biased......
>
>                                                -Marty


   I think the statement you make here is horrible.  There are people who
do good research, and I can't believe that in the hundreds and hundreds of
studies that I have done on the subject, all the researchers wanted to find
that SAT's and college achievement are not correlated.  Let me also clarify
the last point.  It isn't that they aren't correlated, I used the wrong word
here (almost everything is correlated in some fashion), but it's correlation,
or its relationship in regressions etc, are not SIGNIFICANT!!!   I can cite
a myriad of studies if you would like.  Yes, researchers can be biased, no
question, but if the vast majority of studies point to the same conclusion,
then unless someone contradicts it, you have to believe there is some truth.
When I did my personal study for my Master's thesis, I did not change my
numbers or fix my population so that SAT would not be significant,
it is how my numbers came out!  Please don't assume that research is bad unless
you take the time and energy to read and critique the articles.
Newsgroups: rec.sport.basketball.college
From: kettler@pierre.mit.edu (KETTLER, THOMAS R.)
Subject: Re: BAD News for Arkansas and UMass fans
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.4-b1  
Organization: MIT Lab for Nuclear Science
Date: Thu, 23 Jul 1992 19:15:00 GMT

In article <1992Jul22.225043.1687@athena.cs.uga.edu>, milleman@athena.cs.uga.edu (Richard Millema writes...
>In article <92204.073715KRB104@psuvm.psu.edu> KRB104@psuvm.psu.edu writes:
>>
>>   Both of the Baltimore Dunbar High School superstars failed to score 700
>>on the SAT's and will not be eligible to play next season.  Michael Lloyd,
>>formerly headed for Arkansas, will probably enroll at San Jacinto Junior
>>college in Texas.  Who knows if he will ever make it to Arkansas.  Donta
>>Bright will be heading to UMass and will sit out this season.  He said that
>>he made his decision and will live with the consequences.
> 
> 
> 
>Maybe it's just me, but isn't UMass a good school?Could anybody who couldn't get
>a 700 on the SAT actually make it (academically) at a school of UMass's quality
>or is UMass trying to compete and forget that it is an institution of higher
>learning? I can understand a SAT/ACT failure to go to Arkansas and pass all of
>his classes (probably with a 4.0), but I thought higher of UMass, until now.
> 
>                                                        Rick Milleman

Well, don't forget your own college of Georgia. After all, the big lawsuit 
about the woman English professor who taught a remedial English course was told 
to change some football players grades for failing to incomplete to keep the 
players eligible occured at U. of Georgia. After all, what's good for the goose 
is good for the gander.

					Sincerely yours,

					Thomas R. Kettler "Big Ten Fanatic"
From: milleman@athena.cs.uga.edu (Richard Milleman)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.basketball.college
Subject: Re: BAD News for Arkansas and UMass fans
Date: 26 Jul 92 20:28:10 GMT
Distribution: na
Organization: University of Georgia, Athens

In article <1992Jul26.011154.26874@rice.edu> rbutera@is.rice.edu (Rob Butera) writes:
>In article <1992Jul25.163541.24885@athena.cs.uga.edu>, milleman@athena.cs.uga.edu (Richard Milleman) writes:
>|> 
>|> Her name is Jan Kemp and she is considered the Anti-Christ in Georgia!!
>
>Well, you mean at the University of Georgia.  
>We Yellowjackets kind of like her :)
>
>Come one now.  I hope you'll readily agree that what she did have to be done.
>Or would you rather have the players just put up the guise of being students?
>
>
>go yellowjackets
>-- 
>Rob Butera - ECE grad student   Rice University, Houston, TX   rbutera@rice.edu
>



 I can only you assume that you got your undergrad from Tech.
 I also don't like arguing football over the basketball newsgroup.
 
 Getting to the point, as a human being I think these guys should take advantage of the opportunity to get a degree. As a football fan, I couldn't care less how
 stupid our players are (and many of them are pretty stupid) as long as they 
 win. This may sound sick or sad, but I've been to class with several of these
 guys and most are there just to stay eligible for the season, not to graduate.
 And though this is cheating the player who is beating the system this is the 
 way of big college sports - Money Making!! 
 To be a STUDENT/Athlete you have to go to Division II, III, or even NAIA. 
 Division I is making more money than doing good for the players (IMHO).

						      Rick Milleman



					
					A
					
Newsgroups: rec.sport.basketball.college
From: rbutera@is.rice.edu (Rob Butera)
Subject: Re: BAD News for Arkansas and UMass fans
Organization: Rice University
Distribution: na
Date: Sun, 26 Jul 1992 01:11:54 GMT

In article <1992Jul25.163541.24885@athena.cs.uga.edu>, milleman@athena.cs.uga.edu (Richard Milleman) writes:
|> 
|> Her name is Jan Kemp and she is considered the Anti-Christ in Georgia!!

Well, you mean at the University of Georgia.  
We Yellowjackets kind of like her :)

Come one now.  I hope you'll readily agree that what she did have to be done.
Or would you rather have the players just put up the guise of being students?

|>      "We fear Change." - Garth Algar
         ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
            Goes well with yor Jan Kemp quote :)


go yellowjackets
-- 
Rob Butera - ECE grad student   Rice University, Houston, TX   rbutera@rice.edu

"Giving new life to the firm's 15 year old VMS operating system ..."
                               - IEEE Spectrum on the DEC Alpha
From: saunders@luther.che.wisc.edu (Brian E. Saunders)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.basketball.college
Subject: Re: Illinois Prairie St. Games- collegiate
Keywords: Illinois, amateur tournament
Date: 22 Jul 92 16:15:15 GMT
Distribution: na
Organization: University of Wisconsin - Madison

In article <BrsqM1.AKJ@news.cso.uiuc.edu> jwag9429@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (John Wilbur Althauser) writes:
>
>.
>Here is some individ. scoring and notes from the college division of IL's
>Prairie State games, held 7/10-7/11 in Champaign.
>.
>COLLEGIATE DIVISION-  competition by 8 regional teams.
>.
>.      Individual scoring  =   #/#/#.   (3 games)
>.
>Purdue  Kenny Williams
>.        After a redshirt year due to B10 Juco restrictings, Williams is
>.        now eligible.  But there were two Williams (Kenny&Murl) on the
>.        "Windy City" roster, so I give scores of both players without
>.        distinguishing.
>.
>.        Perhaps Boiler fans can clear this up.  Also, do they think he'll
>.        contribute, or is he Cornelius McNary's backup?
>.
>.               Williams#1  20 (2-3s)/?/?
>.               Williams#2   4/?/?       one williams had 5 in the last
>.                                       game, the other didn't score.

I know nothing about the other Williams.  If you have been closely
following some threads lately, you would discover that most of the Purdue
faithful do not think highly of McNary as a basketball player.  Chances are
that Glen Robinson will actually start at center, since Cuonzo Martin
started to anchor down the small forward spot at the end of the year, and
the Ian Stanback/Brandon Brantley combination in all likelihood will hold
the power forward position.  Still, I could see a lineup with Williams at
center and Robinson at PF; unfortunately, this would send Ian to the bench.
-- 

Brian E. Saunders			saunders@luther.che.wisc.edu
From: trradrx@canctr.mc.duke.edu (R.CLOUGH)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.basketball.college
Subject: Re: BAD News for Arkansas and UMass fans
Date: 23 Jul 92 13:41:21 GMT
Reply-To: trradrx@canctr.mc.duke.edu
Organization: Duke U. Med. Ctr., Durham, NC

In article <1992Jul23.120451.6685@brtph560.bnr.ca>, markham@brtph600.bnr.ca (Andrew Markham P205) writes:
>>Maybe it's just me, but isn't UMass a good school? Could anybody who couldn't 
>>Rick Milleman

I think Rick may be thinking of Amherst, which is one of the top liberal arts
schools in the country.  UMASS!!! is in the same city and the two are often
confused. I realize the definition of a "good" school is certainly relative, 
but I would not put down Arkansas in favor of UMASS!!!

>for one year, and then went hardship (?)) and later Larry Smith (also didn't 

Andrew, don't you mean Larry *Davis*? I knew Larry Smith (Mr. Mean of the
Houston Rockets) was an unrestricted free agent this year, but I didn't 
expect him to go back to school! :-)
  Speaking of academic standards, who is the only JuCo player that Dean
Smith has accepted at UNC?

Robert Clough, DUMC
	DUKE FOOTBALL '92: "The horror, the horror!"
Newsgroups: rec.sport.basketball.college
From: serdar@fawlty8.eng.monash.edu.au (Serdar Boztas)
Subject: Re: A Look Ahead at the ACC: Georgia Tech
Organization: Monash University, Melb., Australia.
Date: Thu, 23 Jul 1992 05:19:23 GMT

saunders@luther.che.wisc.edu (Brian E. Saunders) writes:

>In article <1992Jul23.022953.26317@talon.ucs.orst.edu> 
navarrer@bionette.CGRB.ORST.EDU (Roy Navarre) writes:
>>...............

>Oh, no!  He's back...............
>-- 

Yes, and since the SHAQ never played at Georgia Tech, we get the ........
thankfully!

>Brian E. Saunders			saunders@luther.che.wisc.edu

Serdar

-- 
Inhabited by absurd fears,  they only discuss  the puerilities with which 
every fool is familiar, and dare not, by turning a bold hand to the human 
heart, offer its gigantic idiosyncrasies to our views.     Sade, 'Justine'
Serdar Boztas \\ serdar@fawlty1.eng.monash.edu.au \\ +(61)3-565-5722 
Newsgroups: rec.sport.basketball.college
From: wung@puttgen.ee.gatech.edu (Peter Wung)
Subject: Re: Where are they/were they
Reply-To: wung@puttgen.ee.gatech.edu
Organization: Sun Microsystems
Date: Mon, 27 Jul 1992 02:02:44 GMT


In article 26474@athena.cs.uga.edu, milleman@athena.cs.uga.edu (Richard Milleman) writes:
>I am wondering what happened to two college superstars. Melvin Cheatum was an
>outstanding forward for Alabama. I believe his last season was 1990 and I 
>expected to see him in the NBA.
>Mel Turpin was Kentucky's other Twin Tower next to Sam Bowie. Bowie now plays 
>with New Jersey, but what about Turpin.
>If anyone has any info on these two e-mail me please.
>
>Two others that I know where they are now (Barcelona) are John Stockton and
>Karl Malone. Where did they go to college?
>
>					Thanks in advance
>					Rick Milleman
>					Milleman@Athena.cs.uga.edu
>
>"We don't know much about Angola, only that they don't have a chance against
>the dream team." - Bob Costas


Stockton went to Gonzaga in Spokane, Washington.  BTW there is an interesting article
on Stockton, Mark Rypien, and Ryne Sandberg in the latest issue of SI.  They grew up within a few miles of each other in Spokane.  The mailman went to Louisiana Tech or
Northwest Louisiana. I think.

Pete Wung
From: sjc@cs.purdue.EDU (Steve Chapin)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.basketball.college
Subject: Re: Big 11 Recruits - 1992
Date: 31 Jul 92 02:37:51 GMT
	<1992Jul27.225821.4391@uwm.edu>
	<1992Jul29.054232.14427@ennews.eas.asu.edu>
	<1992Jul30.091851.13046@dg-rtp.dg.com>
Organization: Department of Computer Science, Purdue University

}} In article <1992Jul30.091851.13046@dg-rtp.dg.com> foerster@zman.rtp.dg.com (Mike Von Foerster) writes:
}} 
}} I'd take Alan Henderson anyday over the above mentioned names. As a matter of fact,
}} I'd rate him second to Webber.

If a sophomore is someone in their second year of play, I'll also
throw Funderburke's name in.  If it's someone who's in their second
year of school, Glenn Robinson will eat everyone else's lunch, with
the possible exception of Webber.

Yes, that's a 100% USDA prime woof.  In your face, JO (whose namesake
broke his hand while trying out for Portland).

sjc@cs.purdue.edu               Steve Chapin           Today's Grammar Lesson:
                      I won one game, three to two, too.

                  I meant what I said, and said what I meant.
           An elephant's faithful, one hundred percent. (Dr. Seuss)
From: rsmith@strobe.ATC.Olivetti.Com (Russ Smith)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.basketball.college
Subject: Re: BAD News for Arkansas and UMass fans
Date: 23 Jul 92 21:28:54 GMT
Organization: Olivetti ATC; Cupertino CA, USA

In article <XJAM.92Jul23141132@cork.CS.Berkeley.EDU> xjam@cork.CS.Berkeley.EDU (The Crossjammer) writes:
>  Russ> when I hear people like John Thompson or John Chaney complain that
>  Russ> 700 is too high and racially biased I can't understand it. 
>
>I'd like to see a quote where either of these guys complained that 700 was
>too high.  I'll agree that both are probably in the "the SAT is biased, why
>use it" camp, but I'm going to call you on this particular point.


If its an exact quote then I'll fail the challenge cause I don't have
one, but both men are on record as saying that using SAT and ACT test
scores as Prop 48 does is wrong because the tests are racially biased.
They justify this by saying that blacks score lower than whites(in
fact than any racial group) and therefore using these tests discriminates
against blacks. To me this implies that since the most affected group
will be blacks, then the 700 minimum is too high. In fact after Prop
48 there was another rule change which I can't remember that would have
that would have raised the minimum as it was on a scale with GPA(ie.
the higher the GPA the lower the SAT score needed) and both Thompson
and Chaney testified that raising the minimum when 700 was already 
keeping too many students out was wrong. I would say that they are
essentially saying that 700 is too high, but again I have no direct
quote to cite.



Russ Smith
*******************************************************************************
"I want a world where I can eat a sea otter without getting sick!"

Leslie Nielsen in the Naked Gun 2 1/2
******************************************************************************