From: lwl@eniac.seas.upenn.edu (Lydia Leong)
Newsgroups: rec.games.mud,news.groups,rec.games.mud.lp
Subject: Re: Um, okay, I did it.
Date: 12 Apr 92 05:47:14 GMT
Followup-To: news.groups
Organization: Evil Geniuses for a Better Tomorrow

In article <1992Apr12.044746.15954@CS.ORST.EDU> 
   downsj@nyssa.CS.ORST.EDU (jason downs) writes:
>In article <RSNYDER.92Apr11190059@nutrimat.fergie.dnet.ge.com>,
>	rsnyder@fergie.dnet.ge.com (Bob Snyder) writes:
>>I agree the process is a pain in the ass, and I did say that the
>>groups presented in my RFD (once the moderator posts it) would likely
>>change after the discussion period.  I did the groups the way I feel
>>they should be done (rgm.tiny, rgm.diku, rgm.announce (moderated)),
>>simply to try and get the ball rolling. I disagree with the way you
>>propose the groups, but if that appears to be the way most people
>>feel, I would have no problems doing a CFV on this.

>yes, lp has it's own group. i even voted for it, as there was enough
>traffic to warrant it's creation... but NOT enough for a r.g.m.diku
>group... a few, petty, immature, diku players simply think that it's
>unfair for lp to have it's own group while they do not. i tell
>ya, kiddies, life isn't always fair. if you really, really want your
>own group, go create alt.mud.diku and see how that goes, THEN we can
>discuss r.g.m.diku, ok children?

I think the point is not volume, but the amount of information that
is of absolutely no value to anyone other than Diku players. You can
make some argument that Tiny-related posts are relevant to all MUDs
because they contain social issues that affect all MUDs (for example,
sexual harassment of players). But Diku equipment lists, for example,
are of value only to Diku players, just like LPC discussions really
only interest LP-mudders.

I don't think anyone's mentioned an issue of fairness here at all.
The issue is the signal-to-noise ratio here. A lot of the Diku players
don't even bother to put any kind of indicator in their subject line
that indicates a Diku is being discussed, so I can't wipe out posts
like that with a kill file. Granted, there aren't so many posts on
rec.games.mud that this is much of a problem, but it'd be nice to
see the Diku discussion shunted off to its own group.

I don't understand the purpose of creating an alt.mud.diku. Do you
just have some kind of objection to an "official" Diku group, or what?
It's still an extra newsgroup, and its purpose would still be to get Diku
traffic out of r.g.m. and into its own group. If there's enough interest
for this, why not try to create an official newsgroup? (presuming we
decide to split this group at all).

>as for the laughable suggestion of r.g.m.tiny... man, you are just about
>as clueless as they get. the term `tiny' encompasses A LOT when your
>referr to muds. just leave the `tiny' posts to r.g.m.

The term 'Tiny' encompasses the TinyMUD-derived MUDs, the ones that
focus on socializing. Basically, this is Tiny/TeenyMUD, MUSH, MUSE,
MUCK, MOO, MUG, and related things like UnterMUD.
The types aren't so dramatically different that a rec.games.mud.tiny
would leave its readers unable to understand each other. Most of the
Tiny-related postings in this newsgroup relate to social issues, anyway.

Whether or not you'd prefer to see that kind of stuff left in r.g.m.
is just a matter of taste, I guess. I don't much care either way,
honestly.

>>What we need to
>>do now though is get this discussion to be "official" and get it moved
>>over the news.groups, which is where it belongs.
>
>this is annoying. the discussion is ABOUT r.g.m., so FUCKING leave it
>in r.g.m.! it doesn't hurt you to actually CROSS POST between r.g.m.
>and news.groups, does it? or, i forget, you DO KNOW how to cross post,
>don't you?

Protocol says that discussion about newsgroup splits/creations/etc.
belongs in news.groups. Protocol also says that once a CFD is issued,
the discussion stays in news.groups.
There are some people who don't want to hear about newsgroup splits.
If you want to read about rec.games.mud being split, go to news.groups
and look through the subject headers/search for the pattern. You DO KNOW 
how to do that, right?

Follow-ups to this article directed to news.groups.

-------------------------+----------------------------------------------------
Lydia Leong, CSE '94     | C code. C code run. Run code run... please!
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Newsgroups: rec.games.mud