HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: jmaynard@oac.hsc.uth.tmc.edu (Jay Maynard)
Newsgroups: news.groups
Subject: Re: RFD: RENAME several groups to rec.outdoors.*
Date: 25 Jan 1993 17:55:46 GMT
Organization: UT Health Science Center Houston

In article <1993Jan25.164947.20787@aio.jsc.nasa.gov> horn@freefall.jsc.nasa.gov (Mark Horn) writes:
>Now maybe
>	rec.flying.skydiving
>	rec.flying.hanggliding
>	rec.flying.experimental
>But that's another discussion.

How about rec.aviation? After all, skydiving is part of aviation...

I agree, though, that it's probably not an "outdoors" activity as folks think
of such. I agree that there are groups that should be moved, but this isn't
one of them.
-- 
Jay Maynard, EMT-P, K5ZC, PP-ASEL | Never ascribe to malice that which can
jmaynard@oac.hsc.uth.tmc.edu      | adequately be explained by stupidity.
    "I don't want to read poor Microsoft bashing. I want to read good
Microsoft bashing." -- Douglas A. Bell, in comp.os.os2.advocacy (Me too!)
From: bob@werple.apana.org.au (Bob Blanchett)
Newsgroups: news.groups
Subject: Re: RFD: rec.games.miniatures
Date: 28 Jan 1993 21:05:13 +1100
Organization: Werple, Public Access *NIX, Oz
NNTP-Posting-Host: werple.apana.org.au
Keywords: miniatures figures ancients napoleonics renaissance naval

In article <1993Jan26.164926.15974@nastar.uucp> phardie@nastar.uucp (Pete Hardie) writes:
>In article <1k2etkINN6bv@werple.apana.org.au> bob@werple.apana.org.au (Bob Blanchett) writes:
>>rec.games.miniatures is a "games" group, so theoretically the art/hobby
>>crowd, who don't game should be looking at one of the *.models groups like 
>>alt.models. 
>
>I'm confused... wasn't the 'painting of miniatures and creation of terrain'
>part of the original RFD?

What I had in mind was painting and terrain creation as it pertains to
wargames and wargamers, distinct from those who paint and build models for
their own sake i.e. dioramas and displays / collectors etc.

Bob.


From: rhm@hpfcso.FC.HP.COM (Bob Miller)
Date: Mon, 25 Jan 1993 18:09:37 GMT
Subject: Re: RFD: RENAME several groups to rec.outdoors.*
Organization: Hewlett-Packard, Fort Collins, CO, USA
Newsgroups: news.groups

Check out the fiasco that happened in the rec.music.* hierarchy a few months 
back, I stand opposed to any but the most *compelling* of reasons to 
rename groups. 

The problem is that some readers inevitably cannot move to the new names
because they cannot easily get the appropriate access. So the old group gets
left around and now we have two identical groups where once we had one. And
some "old farts" just refuse to move...;-}

(check out rec.music.synth and rec.music.makers.synth)

Nada. Nyet. Never again!!!!

Bob Miller rhm@hpfirhm.fc.hp.com
Xref: sparky news.groups:26279 rec.boats:9426
From: hanners@oasys.dt.navy.mil (Robert Hanners)
Newsgroups: news.groups,rec.boats
Subject: Re: RFD: RENAME several groups to rec.outdoors.*
Date: 25 Jan 93 22:57:43 GMT
Reply-To: hanners@oasys.dt.navy.mil (Robert Hanners)
Followup-To: news.groups
Organization: Carderock Division, NSWC, Annapolis, MD

In rec.boats, rigg@osnome.che.wisc.edu (Tim Rigg) writes:
>                        REQUEST FOR DISCUSSION

Rec.boats in rec.outdoors?  Naw... I'll stay were I am.  No bears.

-- Bob

------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Robert J. Hanners         "My comments; only mine."          *DIASTOLE* 676673
CD, NSWC, Annapolis, MD                              hanners@oasys.dt.navy.mil
From: rick@crick.ssctr.bcm.tmc.edu (Richard H. Miller)
Newsgroups: news.groups
Subject: Re: RFD: rec.outdoors.orienteering
Date: 21 Jan 1993 17:04:24 GMT
Organization: Baylor College of Medicine, Houston, Tx
NNTP-Posting-Host: crick.ssctr.bcm.tmc.edu

In article <1jkq9dINNqfj@rodan.UU.NET>, PTomblin@gvc.com (Paul Tomblin) writes:
> This is a formal request for discussion (RFD) of the creation of a
> newsgroup specifically for Orienteering.
> 
> There currently is a mailing list (orienteering@graphics.cornell.edu), which
> would be two-way gatewayed into this newsgroup.  The current membership of
> the list is over 150, but many of those people are on Compu$erve.

What is the amount of traffic that you see on the mailing list? If it is
starting to get large then a news group would be appropriate but if the
list volume is small, then it should remain as a mailing list. How many of
your members would use the newsgroup rather than the mailing list?



 
-- 
Richard H. Miller                 Email: rick@bcm.tmc.edu
Asst. Dir. for Technical Support  Voice: (713)798-3532
Baylor College of Medicine        US Mail: One Baylor Plaza, 302H
                                           Houston, Texas 77030
From: jmaynard@oac.hsc.uth.tmc.edu (Jay Maynard)
Newsgroups: news.groups
Subject: Re: RFD: comp.os.nt
Keywords: Microsoft Windows NT Win32
Date: 27 Jan 1993 11:32:21 GMT
Organization: UT Health Science Center Houston

In article <C1HzCL.HrK@unix.amherst.edu> twpierce@unix.amherst.edu (Tim Pierce) writes:
>Rather than not being a derivative, it's not a subproduct.  The above
>hierarchical scheme suggests that NT is some peculiar dialect of
>MS-Windows -- seeing as how NT is an operating system whereas
>MS-Windows is not, that hardly seems to be the case.  Give it a
>parallel hierarchy.

Ah, but it IS a peculiar dialect of MS Windows, one that happens not to be
built on top of DOS.

As for the current MS Windows not being an OS, the net disagrees, as it voted
in comp.os.ms-windows in the first place. Given that precedent, MS
Windows-flavored OSes belong under comp.os.ms-windows. There are many more
similarities than differences, and that would allow such groups as
comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy to be used by the new group without any additional
work. If NoT were to be in its own hierarchy, then we'd eventually need
comp.os.windows-nt.advocacy, .programmer, .networking, etcetera.

(I don't intend to ever use NotThere; my interest is in getting NT advocates
out of comp.os.os2.advocacy.)
-- 
Jay Maynard, EMT-P, K5ZC, PP-ASEL | Never ascribe to malice that which can
jmaynard@oac.hsc.uth.tmc.edu      | adequately be explained by stupidity.
    "I don't want to read poor Microsoft bashing. I want to read good
Microsoft bashing." -- Douglas A. Bell, in comp.os.os2.advocacy (Me too!)
From: plutchak@pilsner.geo.brown.edu (Joel Plutchak)
Newsgroups: news.groups
Subject: Re: PowerBook Newsgroup
Followup-To: news.groups
Date: 21 Jan 1993 14:32:37 GMT
Organization: Brown University Planetary Geology
NNTP-Posting-Host: pilsner.geo.brown.edu

In article <C165MD.7qq@dartvax.dartmouth.edu> hades@Dartmouth.Edu writes:
>    This proposal, as it currently stands, is completely invalid
>according to the Guidelines for Newsgroup Creation. Until the original
>poster has an approved RFD for the group, there should be no talk about
>in news.groups.

   Could you point out where in the Guidelines it is stated that no
discussions shall be held in news.groups unless a valid RFD has been
accepted?  While any discussion held in news.group prior to the posting
of an official RFD will not be considered part of the "official"
discussion (whatever *that* means, since no minimum time limit is set
between issuance of an RFD and issuance of a CFV), I see no harm in
gathering opinions from the news.groups audience before issuing an
RFD.  In fact, it's probably a good idea, since it may prevent bad
ideas from wasting even more news.groups bandwidth.
   Then again, the proposer of this group does seem a bit clueless...
--
Joel Plutchak, Research Programmer/Analyst
Disclaimer: Involuntary vocalization may occur.
Newsgroups: news.groups
Organization: Penn State University
Date: Thu, 21 Jan 1993 09:31:35 EST
From: Windsor A. Morgan <NHT@psuvm.psu.edu>
Newsgroups: news.groups
Subject: Re: RFD: rec.arts.startrek.reviews moderated

There hasn't been much talk in the last day or so(today being January 21).
Does that mean people have given up on the proposed newsgroup?  I am
opposed to it, and have posted another option, a moderated mailing list.
Let's not see the dearth of postings as a sign of readiness to go to
a vote!
'Verily, there be no leader as wise as the Vision!'
                         Windsor Morgan (wmorgan@stsci.edu OR NHT@PSUVM.BITNET)
                         Space Telescope Science Institute
                         Baltimore, MD   21218
From: jmaynard@oac.hsc.uth.tmc.edu (Jay Maynard)
Newsgroups: news.groups
Subject: Re: RFD: RENAME several groups to rec.outdoors.*
Date: 26 Jan 1993 00:56:09 GMT
Organization: UT Health Science Center Houston

In article <1993Jan25.234555.16349@leland.Stanford.EDU> clint@leland.Stanford.EDU (Clint Cummins) writes:
> 1. the participants would have to change their .newsrc files.  

Done automatically by the newsreader.

> 2. the proposed new name is longer.

Who cares? You never have to type it.

> 3. the new name describes a subset of climbing.  Some climbing these days
>    is done indoors, and items on this are posted to rec.climbing.  There is
>    probably not enough traffic/interest to support both.  Most people who
>    climb indoors also climb outdoors.  I suspect the person who suggested
>    the "rename" was probably not aware of indoor climbing.

This one is valid.

>Benefits:
>  none apparent to me.

Improving the organization of the net is beneficial to new users; it makes
groups easier to find.

Whether or not the benefits of the improved organization outweigh the
inconsistency of having an indoor/outdoor sport in rec.outdoor.* is a judgment
I'm not prepared to make; the only things I climb are stairs and the
occasional ladder.
-- 
Jay Maynard, EMT-P, K5ZC, PP-ASEL | Never ascribe to malice that which can
jmaynard@oac.hsc.uth.tmc.edu      | adequately be explained by stupidity.
    "I don't want to read poor Microsoft bashing. I want to read good
Microsoft bashing." -- Douglas A. Bell, in comp.os.os2.advocacy (Me too!)
Newsgroups: news.groups
From: erict@panix.com (Eric Tiffany)
Subject: Re: comp.sys.mac.powerbook
Organization: PANIX Public Access Unix, NYC
Date: Thu, 21 Jan 1993 14:00:55 GMT

In <1jlf1oINNr4b@stimpy.css.itd.umich.edu> kwun@css.itd.umich.edu (Michael Kwun) writes:

>I'm also all for a comp.sys.mac.powerbook

I think it would definitely save a lot of time sifting through
postings in c.s.m.{hardware,apps,comm,...}.  A lot of archives have a
special PowerBook repository; even Compuserve has special PowerBook
forum areas (they suck, but that's not unusual for CompuServe).

>I'd be behind a comp.sys.mac.duo as well.

I'm not sure I'd buy this.  Although the Duos and the PBs are
different, they have more issues in common (batteries, small disk,
file sync, etc) than differences.  Bifurcation of newsgroups is
already a problem --- maybe the new group should be called
c.s.m.portable ?

ET

Newsgroups: news.groups
From: hankedr@mail.auburn.edu (Darrel Hankerson)
Subject: Re: RFD: comp.os.os2.{announce,ver1x,beta}
Organization: Auburn University, Alabama
Date: Sun, 24 Jan 1993 00:40:07 GMT

>	This is a Request For Discussion (RFD) for the creation of three OS/2
>	newsgroups:
>	(1)  comp.os.os2.ver1x      (unmoderated)
>	(2)  comp.os.os2.beta       (unmoderated)
>	(3)  comp.os.os2.announce   (moderated)

I oppose the creation of the .ver1x group.

We lose the help of experts when there are too many groups and too many
postings which are off-charter or FA FAQs.  For this reason, I oppose the
creation of the .ver1x group. The 1.x questions are few--let's leave these
in the main groups. 

Part of this RFD is due, I suppose, to the large volume of stuff on the
comp.os.os2.* newsgroups.  I wish I knew some way to get folks to read 
the FAQ before posting (such posts are the plague of many newsgroups). Alas,
I've seen the Sipples approach (location in every one of his signatures), and
the comp.binaries.ibm.pc.* approach (several folks would gently remind 
the posters), and neither works (the ibm group recently reorganized).
Even when there is a group for the topic (.advocacy), we still get these
"interesting" discussions in .misc.

This is not to say that the Sipples approach hasn't helped--I just wish 
folks would read a few posts before posting.

--Darrel Hankerson hankedr@mail.auburn.edu

Xref: sparky news.groups:26145 soc.culture.asean:9234
From: pavlik@apap4.pap.univie.ac.at
Newsgroups: news.groups,soc.culture.asean
Subject: Re: 2nd RFD: soc.culture.malaysia
Date: 22 Jan 93 09:48:38 GMT
Followup-To: news.groups
Organization: Vienna University Computer Center

In article <1jkq9tINNqfu@rodan.UU.NET>, barrera@mtu.edu (Christopher Barrera) writes:
> 
> The proposed group is to be called "soc.culture.malaysia"
> 
> The proposed group is unmoderated. That is, all who wish to join
> may freely do so.
> 
> Proposed CHARTER for the proposed group "soc.culture.malaysia" -
> 
>    The proposed group, soc.culture.malaysia, is intended for
>    the discussion of all topics pertaining to Malaysia, including
>    but not limited to: culture, national politics, foreign diplomacy,
>    economy, peoples, and land.
> 

I support the creation of this newsgroup !

Andreas Pavlik
University of Vienna           	                       Bitnet: PAVLIK@AWIRAP
Vienna, Austria                            Internet: PAVLIK@PAP.UNIVIE.AC.AT
Newsgroups: news.groups
From: jsb16@cunixa.cc.columbia.edu (Jennifer S Broekman)
Subject: Re: RFD: RENAME several groups to rec.outdoors.*
Reply-To: jsb16@cunixa.cc.columbia.edu (Jennifer S Broekman)
Organization: Columbia University
Date: Tue, 26 Jan 1993 01:36:33 GMT

In article <1k1qg5INN7a2@umbc8.umbc.edu> ac999266@umbc.edu (ac999266) writes:
>>Tim Rigg <rigg@osnome.che.wisc.edu> writes:
>>[stuff about possibly moving these to a rec.outdoors.* hierarchy]
>>>rec.boats 
>>>rec.boats.paddle 
>>>rec.climbing 
>>>rec.scuba 
>>>rec.skiing 
>>>rec.skydiving 
>>>rec.windsurfing 

>The consensus here looks like (IMO) these groups
> refer to things which are done outdoors (usually),
> but not done BECAUSE they are outdoors.  Hence,
> they don't belong in the .outdoors hierarchy.

I don't know about you, but I ski, canoe, sail, and row BECAUSE these 
activities are outdoor activities. If I just wanted the exercise, using the 
local gym's rowing machine is more convenient and cheaper than trekking to
a body of water that permits rowing.

-jenneke

   Only Boys Accepting Feminism Get Kissed Meaningfully  -- Geoff Marcy
The only unnatural sexual act is that which you cannot perform. - Alfred Kinsey
		jenneke is: jsb16@cunixa.cc.columbia.edu
From: mike@aloysius.equinox.gen.nz (Mike Campbell)
Newsgroups: news.groups
Subject: Re: RFD: rec.games.miniatures 
Distribution: world
Date: Fri, 22 Jan 93 21:46:53 GMT
Organization: Me? Organized?


In article <1jmsclINNh24@rodan.UU.NET> bob@werple.apana.org.au writes:

  > 
  >   The newsgroup "rec.games.miniatures" would be a forum for discussing
  >   the all aspects of the hobby of tabletop miniature wargaming of all
  >   periods, from figure painting, terrain construction, historical information
  >   and army and unit composition through to rulesets, tabletop tactics,
  >   scenarios, campaigning and competitions.
  > 

Oh yes please!! :-)



Mike Campbell, Christchurch, New Zealand
mike@aloysius.equinox.gen.nz
From: geoffb@coos.dartmouth.edu (Thumper)
Newsgroups: news.groups
Subject: Re: 2nd RFD: rec.arts.startrek.reviews moderated
Date: 27 Jan 93 20:48:47 GMT
Reply-To: geoffb@Dartmouth.EDU
Organization: Amos Tuck School
Disclaimer: I don't represent Dartmouth and Dartmouth doesn't represent me.

In <1k6klkINNnlf@gaia.ucs.orst.edu> stanley@ruby.OCE.ORST.EDU (John Stanley) writes:

>Except there is no mechanism for the moderators to set the Subject lines
>on the followups. Those who followup a review are free to change the
>subject in whatever manner they wish, including avoiding or violating
>any and all rules the moderator wishes to enforce..

I think most misuse of Newsgroups and Follow-up header lines is due to
laziness, not malice, on the part of the user. There isn't much we can do
about people who would deliberately redirect a discussion to the wrong
group, but we can deal with people who have no clue what they are doing.

-Geoff
--
geoffb@Dartmouth.EDU - Computing Support Consultant, Tuck School of Business
 "Congress shall make no law...abridging the freedom of speech,
  or of the press..."
  Freedom of Speech. It's not just a good idea. It's the law!
From: geoffb@coos.dartmouth.edu (Geoff Bronner)
Newsgroups: news.groups
Subject: Re: Proposed startrek split & the crossover issue
Date: 24 Jan 93 15:42:47 GMT
Reply-To: geoffb@Dartmouth.EDU
Organization: Amos Tuck School
Disclaimer: I don't represent Dartmouth and Dartmouth doesn't represent me.

In <1js3uoINNg8c@newsstand.cit.cornell.edu> mss1@cornell.edu (Michael S. Shappe) writes:

>Ahem. A very good point the Enchanter makes up there. You may recall I
>spent several months publishing weekly and monthly introductions that
>were meant to tell people where their posts belong. Fat lot of good it
>did, and it was very little missed when it went away.

I miss them. I liked emailing them to people who seemed to have NO idea
what a newsgroup line is for.

>Further splits are not the answer; certainly, THIS split is not the
>answer. They, too, will be ignored or misunderstood by the stubbron and
>the naive. Better reading tools with better selection methods are what is
>needed.

Word.

-G
--
geoffb@Dartmouth.EDU - Computing Support Consultant, Tuck School of Business
_____________________________________________________________________________
 Cerebus for Dictator in 1993!!    | "Responsibility is when someone can
     "Vote for me or else."        |  blame you if something goes wrong."
From: jaapjl@tab00.larc.nasa.gov (J Lee Jaap)
Newsgroups: news.groups
Subject: Re: RFD: comp.sys.mac.powerbook
Date: 22 Jan 1993 21:41:03 GMT
Organization: AS&M Inc
Reply-To: J Lee Jaap <J.L.Jaap@larc.nasa.gov>
NNTP-Posting-Host: cmb00.larc.nasa.gov
In-reply-to: jg@titan.ucs.umass.edu's message of 22 Jan 93 02:00:00 GMT

In article <1jnkf0INN57l@titan.ucs.umass.edu> jg@titan.ucs.umass.edu (John Greene) writes:

     Why the hell do discussions on this group have to have such a harsh
     tone?  Do you net.gods really take enjoyment in random flames?

Honestly, Judge, I had no idea that I was supposed to share the road
with other cars.  I really didn't mean for all those cars to end up in
ditches.

Please accept correction if you blunder in where you don't know the
rules.  I will admit that some people have been more caustic than
others in response to the crazy way the original post was made.
But the net is so large that much cannot just be allowed to happen.
Thus rules are needed for sane interaction.
--
J Lee Jaap <J.L.Jaap@LaRC.NASA.Gov> +1 804/864-2148
    employed by, not speaking for, AS&M Inc, at
         NASA LaRC, Hampton VA 23681-0001
From: sidel+@pitt.edu (Philip S Sidel)
Newsgroups: news.groups
Subject: Re: RFD: RENAME several groups to rec.outdoors.*
Date: 26 Jan 93 02:19:49 GMT
Distribution: na
Organization: University of Pittsburgh

I'm an avid reader of rec.climbing.  Please don't make me have to type
an extra word .outdoors just to get there.

Why not just switch around and let the fishermen have rec.fishing?

It doesn't help me to have all the "outdoors" activities grouped for me.

I notice the proposers of rec.orienteering are having problems deciding
if they are rec.outdoors.orienteering or rec.sport.orienteering.

grouping and classification can be useful, but we all have our own ideas
of how to group.  Maybe the payoff would make it worthwhile if rn really
operated hierarchically, but my experience is that the program is not
designed to use the hierarchies very much.  Maybe it's different for
someone who is searching for other kinds of topics.  Maybe, also, hier-
archical structure is more useful when topics are being *SPLIT*.
But for my interests, I would just as soon search for the specifics --
ie, make my own group of interest areas.

						Phil Sidel
						Univ. of Pittsburgh
						sidel@vms.cis.pitt.edu
From: genzuk@mizar.usc.edu (Michael Genzuk)
Newsgroups: news.groups
Subject: Re: PowerBook Newsgroup
Date: 26 Jan 1993 16:35:14 -0800
Organization: University of Southern California, Los Angeles, CA
Distribution: na
NNTP-Posting-Host: mizar.usc.edu

I have seen many more notes in favor of the PB newsgroup and only one
opposed.  I sure would like to see more dialog on this issue.  

Once again let me voice my support for the formation of this group.
I think that it will add to all PB interneting folks, and help to 
cut back a little from the huge amount of entries in the other Mac
groups.  I know that when I am away from the net for a few days and
I start to search the Mac groups it is cumbersome having to sift
through so many different topics. 

I still submit that there is a need for a Mac PB newsgroup.

Michael from USC
Newsgroups: news.groups,soc.culture.usa,alt.censorship,alt.individualism,alt.society.civil-liberty,misc.headlines
From: mvp@netcom.com (Mike Van Pelt)
Subject: Re: public appeal to John DiNardo to stop posting to soc.culture.usa
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services (408 241-9760 guest)
Date: Thu, 28 Jan 1993 01:58:18 GMT

In article <1993Jan27.194420.24912@bnlux1.bnl.gov> bam@bnlux1.bnl.gov (Bruce A. Martin) writes:
>Werner, I appreciate your attempt to make a reasonable appeal
>to John DiNardo, but I fear your efforts are wasted.
>
>In the past, many others have asked him both publically and privately to
>refrain from posting lengthy transcripts to multiple groups, in multiple
>pieces (with variant headers designed to defeat thread-kills).

Kill file ideas for DiNardo's stuff:

/misc.activism.progressive/h:j
/dinardo/a:j

-- 
Mike Van Pelt                          Here lies a Technophobe,
mvp@netcom.com                            No whimper, no blast.
mvp@hsv3.lsil.com                      His life's goal accomplished,
                                          Zero risk at last.
From: Michael S. Shappe <mss1@cornell.edu>
Newsgroups: news.groups
Subject: Re: RFD: rec.arts.startrek.reviews moderated
Date: 23 Jan 1993 18:31:49 GMT
Organization: Cornell University
Distribution: world
NNTP-Posting-Host: cu-dialup-0210.cit.cornell.edu
X-UserAgent: Nuntius v1.1.1d16
X-XXMessage-ID: <A786FAD7AE01EC34@cu-dialup-0210.cit.cornell.edu>
X-XXDate: Sat, 23 Jan 93 18:38:31 GMT

In article <C1A63x.LFy@news.cso.uiuc.edu> Smiley,
jal41820@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu writes:
>:)Also, I've been unable to find generic mailing list software, and had
>:)to write my own shell scripts.  Are there any PA mailing list software
>:)packages available for generic UNIX sites?

The new Trek-Review-L (blatant plug) is running under Tasos Kotsikonas'
Unix Listserver package (fomerly Unix-Listserv). The package contains
many (but not yet all) of the features found in the BITNET Revised
Listserv, and is fairly robust, if a bit complex. It's available from
cs.bu.edu in /pub/listserv. You may want to wait until 6.0 (due out Real
Soon Now), as that will have a lot more features, including improved
handling of mailer errors...

Mikey
Newsgroups: news.groups