HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: fedimit@wisipc.weizmann.ac.il (Dan Nabutovsky)
Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast
Subject: Re: yet another wayne's lie
Date: 27 Dec 92 16:23:13 GMT
Distribution: talk
Organization: Weizmann Institute of Science, Computation Center

In article <1992Dec20.1777.21344@channel1> "wayne mcguire" <wayne.mcguire@channel1.com> writes:

>     Former Israeli Prime Minister Yitzhak Shamir says the Arabs
>     have no respect for human life and enjoy murder. (UPI
>     12/16/92)

   Lie. He said this about Arab terrorists, not about Arabs. If for you
Arabs=Arab terrorists, you are Arab hater.

Dan
Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast
From: hernlem@chess.ncsu.EDU (Brad Hernlem)
Subject: Re: No mud in Israel?
Reply-To: hernlem@chess.ncsu.EDU (Brad Hernlem)
Organization: North Carolina State University
Date: Mon, 28 Dec 1992 15:25:19 GMT

In article <EGGERTJ.92Dec27230904@moses.atc.ll.mit.edu>,
eggertj@moses.atc.ll.mit.edu (Jim Eggert x6127 g41) writes:
> In article <1992Dec24.222955.5152@nysernet.org> astein@nysernet.org
(Alan Stein) writes:
> >   One of the reasons I am such a strong supporter of Israel is that they
> >   are fighting for their lives against groups, like Hamas and the PLO,
> >   for whom murder is a way of life <gr>, yet refuses to sink into the
> >   mud with them.
> 
> Many of us have our own ways of supporting Israel.  Yet to pretend
> that Israel has no mud is blind.  Every time Israel shells a Lebanese
> village in retaliation for a shelling of an Israeli village, Israel is
                               ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
> sinking in the mud.  Every time an Israeli soldier dresses as an Arab
> to go into the occupied territories to kill a few, Israel is sinking
> in the mud.  Every time Israel deports a Palestinian without even the
> pretext of a demonstration of guilt, Israel is sinking in the mud.
> 
> No, Israel is down in the mud with the Hamas and the PLO, there is no
> doubt.  Some may argue that that is the only way Israel can live,
> but I say that is no way to live.
> --
> =Jim  eggertj@atc.ll.mit.edu (Jim Eggert)

I would just like to point out that, at least in the past couple years,
such incidents have been rare while incidents of Israeli shelling of
Lebanese villages take place almost daily (there has been an average of
nearly one air raid per week on Lebanon in 1992; "retaliatory shelling"
is even more frequent). Generally, the Israeli government uses such
"retaliation" for attacks on Israeli soldiers in the Israeli-occupied
south Lebanon; i.e. the Israeli government uses attacks on civilian
targets for retaliation against attacks on Israeli military targets. The
excuse, of course, is that there are military elements in these
villages. However, the Israeli government knows that shelling villages
kills civilians and it does nothing to change its policy.

I just wanted to point out what I thought was an inadvertent
exaggeration on your part. I know that it is hard to believe, given the
way news is presented in this country, but the Lebanese resistance
fighters do NOT have a demonstrated policy of attacking Israel. Israel
does, on the other hand, have a policy of attacking Lebanon in
"retaliation" for attacks on its occupation troops stationed there.

Brad Hernlem (hernlem@chess.ncsu.EDU)
From: aaldoubo@copper.denver.colorado.edu (Shaqeeqa)
Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast
Subject: Re: Alan Stein
Date: 1 Jan 93 08:54:01 GMT
Organization: University of Colorado at Denver

In article <1i064hINNg6u@life.ai.mit.edu> gwydion@hal.gnu.ai.mit.edu (Mercenary Programmer) writes:
>Is Alan Stein a new and improved version of Ilan Rabinowitz?

No, of Phil Stromer ... :-)

Anisa

"Glad to see that we're debating with sensible fanatics here."
						Alan H. Stein

Xref: sparky talk.politics.mideast:23855 soc.culture.greek:11722 soc.culture.europe:10677 soc.history:10297 soc.rights.human:4624
From: arf@ddsw1.mcs.com (Jack Schmidling)
Subject: Re: Israeli Expulsion of 418 Palestinians
Date: Mon, 28 Dec 1992 18:32:47 GMT
Organization: ddsw1.MCS.COM Contributor, Chicago, IL

In article <1992Dec21.141015.9393@ennews.eas.asu.edu> makowsky@enuxhb.eas.asu.edu (David Makowsky) writes:
>
>	These people are sworn to destroy Israel.  And if deporting them
>makes Israel more secure (I am not claiming here that id does or does
>not), and protestc all of its citizens (Jews and Arabs) than the only
>wrong thing is that not enough were deported.

I am not sure I want to get into this anymore but does it not seem useful
to point out that YOU and Israel has no proof whatsoever that "these
people are sworn to destroy Israel".   It is collective punishment for a
;group of people because some of them MAY have made such an oath.  :
However, in a democracy, people are not punished for much of anything
until they have at least been tried and convicted.  That is the issue.
It is blatent disregard for due process of law and Israel makes a farce
of their claims of being a democracy.

It now DEC 28) turns out that at least some of them have been falsly
accused but are to to believe Israel now that it was only these few?

Israel's credibility is zero.
js
Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast
From: ilyess@ECE.Concordia.CA (Ilyess Bdira)
Subject: Re: WHY?
Organization: ECE - Concordia University
Date: Mon, 21 Dec 1992 14:42:53 GMT

In article <1h2ujgINN4m8@access.usask.ca> choy@skorpio.usask.ca (I am a terminator.) writes:
>What do people want in the middle east? Why are they not satisfied?
>Why hasn't a solution been found?
>
welcome to T.P.M.
You might start watching the evening news also. :-)

>Henry Choy
>choy@cs.usask.ca
From: peewee@infoserv.com (Philip Stromer)
Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast
Subject: Re: Can anyone answer a real quick, simple question?
Date: Sat, 19 Dec 92 23:15:39 PST
Distribution: world
Organization: Friends of Lenny Bruce
        
        >Michael Silverman asks:
        >why did the UN not condemn the acts of terrorism which *led* 
        >to the expulsions?

Because the UN needs the OIL of the Arab states?

Israel gets reamed every which way.  Hell, Israel still hasn't been
given credit for bombing Saddam's nuclear reactor in 1981.  Just 
imagine if Saddam had nukes during the Gulf War...

Of course, a few regulars of this newsgroup would have been OVERJOYED
at such a situation, but all I can say to them is BETTER LUCK NEXT
TIME, and I'm sorry your side lost the war.  :)

--Philip Stromer (peewee@infoserv.com)
Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast
From: hernlem@chess.ncsu.EDU (Brad Hernlem)
Subject: Re: A pragmatic view of the deportation
Reply-To: hernlem@chess.ncsu.EDU (Brad Hernlem)
Organization: North Carolina State University
Date: Mon, 28 Dec 1992 18:15:00 GMT

In article <1992Dec28.155755.5108@nysernet.org>, astein@nysernet.org
(Alan Stein) writes:
> hernlem@chess.ncsu.EDU (Brad Hernlem) writes:
> 
> >According to reports that I have heard, even Rabin's government is not
> >claiming that these men have killed anyone. Are you?
> 
> One does not have to pull the trigger to be responsible for murder.  I
> don't recall Hitler actually killing anyone himself either.
> -- 
> Alan H. Stein                     astein@israel.nysernet.org

Please tell this to those folks who I have seen on television and heard
on the radio who chant "death to Arabs". There would be a lot of people
being deported from Israel if the reason that the recent deportees were
deported was such verbal support for killing. 

Brad Hernlem
From: revans@euclid.ucsd.edu (Ron Evans)
Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast
Subject: Re: Resisting occupation
Date: 22 Dec 92 23:59:29 GMT

<1992Dec22.142917.17829@ncsu.edu> hernlem@chess.ncsu.EDU (Brad Hernlem) writes:

> 	In 1945, Iranian Kurds declared an
> 	independent republic called Mahabad, which only lasted
> 	a year.

The situation in Iran is no longer similar to 1945. The late Shah was
quite guilty of discrimination (oppression?), particularly to non-Persians. 


	The most shocking example of Iranian persecution today 
	involves the Bahai's.  Should they randomly
	kill Iranian soldiers until equal rights are achieved?
	

> 	How can one acknowledge Palestinian land without
> 	acknowledging Kurdish land?


	This was not a rhetorical question.  I would like an
	answer.

>In my opinion, no nation has a "right" to autonomy

	Do the Palestinians have a "right" to autonomy? 


>but each individual has a right to expect respect and equal
>rights within whatever country he resides either by citizenship or by force. 


	Forgive my persistence, but I am not getting answers to my
	questions.  How are the following positions dissimilar?

	1)  As Palestinians are not given equal rights, they should
	randomly kill Israeli soldiers in the territories until
	they are treated equally.

	2)  As the Bahai's are not given equal rights, they should
	randomly kill Iranian soldiers until they are treated
	equally.

	3)  As Iraqi Kurds  are not given equal rights, they should
	randomly kill Iraqi soldiers in Kurdistan until
	they are treated equally.
-- 
Ron Evans (revans@math.ucsd.edu)
From: "wayne mcguire" <wayne.mcguire@channel1.com>
Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast
Subject: jewish fundamenta 3/3
Date: 25 Dec 92 11:06:49 EST
Reply-To: "wayne mcguire" <wayne.mcguire@channel1.com>
Distribution: talk
Organization: Channel 1 Communications

(Continued from previous message)

     of Kahane who are suspected of murder in America roam the
     West Bank with the Israeli government's complicity. The
     asylum received by these terrorists is a measure of the
     power that Kahane, and the value-system he promotes,
     exercises today in the State of Israel.

</o>
---
  OLX 3.01 31-2557  Messiah Complex + Messiah Device = Self-Made Armageddon
--
Channel 1 (R)   Cambridge, MA

Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast
From: dzk@cs.brown.edu (Danny Keren)
Subject: Re: Data
Organization: Brown University Department of Computer Science
Date: Mon, 4 Jan 1993 03:48:03 GMT

In article <1hm0u6INNmvi@manuel.anu.edu.au#  bdm@cs.anu.edu.au writes:
# 	
# Thank you for this information.  One thing that isn't clear about
# numbers like this is how the deaths are classified.  Take the 126
# "Israelies killed by Palestinians".  Is it supposed to be all such 
# killings, those with some political motive (according to who?) or 
# only those somehow connected to the Intifadah?  

I guess all such killings. But as far as I know, non of them
had any criminaly related motive, and in all cases the Israelis
were killed because they were Jews. I mean, they were killed
in random, not while some other criminal activity was going on
and they interfered, or something of the sort.

# Incidentally, averaged over time, the total rate is similar to
# the murder rate in the US.

Not really relevant... also, the average murder rate in Israel
is about 10% than that in the US (same goes for nearly every
western country - in Japan it is even lower).

-Danny Keren.
Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast
Subject: Re: Occupation
From: fedimit@wisslc1.weizmann.ac.il (Dan nabuovsky)
Date: Sun, 3 Jan 1993 16:27:51 GMT
Organization: Weizmann Institute of Science, Computation Center

In article <Jan.2.15.19.57.1993.27014@staccato.rutgers.edu> marwang@staccato.rutgers.edu (Marwan Gharaybeh) writes:

>It seems that a lot of people blindly believed everything that poped
>off Miss Universe's mouth. Her charming face mislead a lot of people
>to beleive all the lies she said.

Didn't knew that Arafat is Miss Universe.

Dan.
From: sera@zuma.UUCP (Serdar Argic)
Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast,talk.politics.soviet,soc.culture.greek,soc.culture.europe,soc.history,soc.culture.soviet
Followup-To: soc.culture.turkish
Subject: 'The most are inside houses. Come you and look.'
Date: Tue, 29 Dec 92 22:13:38 EST
Reply-To: sera@zuma.UUCP (Serdar Argic)
Distribution: world

In article <C01rt8.9u8@exnet.co.uk> dhd@exnet.co.uk (Damon) writes:

>I think the term to use rather than `talks' is `masturbates', ie SA is,

Is that what turns you on? Then enjoy it.

Source: "World Alive, A Personal Story" by Robert Dunn. Crown Publishers, 
Inc., New York (1952). 
(Memoirs of an American officer who witnessed the Armenian genocide of 2.5 
 million Muslim people)

p. 361 (seventh paragraph) and p. 362 (first paragraph).

 'The most are inside houses. Come you and look.'
 'No, dammit! My stomach isn't-'
 'One is a Turkish officer in uniform. Him you must see.'
 "We were under those trees by the mosque, in an open space....
 'I don't believe you," I said, but followed to a nail-studded door. The 
  man pushed it ajar, then spurred away, leaving me to check on the corpse. 
  I thought I should, this charge was so constant, so gritted my teeth and 
  went inside.

 The place was cool but reeked of sodden ashes, and was dark at first, for 
 its stone walls had only window slits. Rags strewed the mud floor around an 
 iron tripod over embers that vented their smoke through roof beams black 
 with soot. All looked bare and empty, but in an inner room flies buzzed. As 
 the door swung shut behind me I saw they came from a man's body lying face 
 up, naked but for its grimy turban. He was about fifty years old by what 
 was left of his face - a rifle butt had bashed an eye. The one left slanted, 
 as with Tartars rather than with Turks. Any uniform once on him was gone, so 
 I'd no proof which he was, and quickly went out, gagging at the mess of his  
 slashed genitals."

Serdar Argic

                     'This war quickly developed into one of extermination. 
                      We closed the roads and mountain passes that might 
                      serve as ways of escape for the Tartars [Turks] and 
                      then proceeded in the work of extermination.'
                                                       (Ohanus Appressian)

Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast
From: hm@cs.brown.edu (Harry Mamaysky)
Subject: anti-Semitism on TPM
Organization: Somewhere East or Somewhere West
Distribution: talk
Date: Tue, 22 Dec 1992 15:47:00 GMT

In article <1992Dec22.1777.21450@channel1>, "wayne mcguire" <wayne.mcguire@channel1.com> writes:
|> [anti-Semitic drivel deleted]
(Does not leave very much, now does it?)

To Mr. McGuire:

Mr. McGuire,

Way back when I started reading and posting to t.p.m., I was some what
surprised by attitudes like yours. You see, I've always been some what
of a realist - and I found most of what you said to be completely
ungrounded in any thing real. Frankly, it upset me that supposedly
rational people like you would bear such senseless hatred for an
entire people.

However, time has changed my attitude. I no longer get upset by
anything you post. Nor do I take any thing you post even remotely
seriously. You see, to have an intelligent discussion requires the
presence of two intelligent sides - a quality in which any discussion
with you is sure to be grossly lacking. Your opinions, it would seem,
are based mainly on your irrational hatred of the Jewish people. That
such attitudes still exist is very unfortunate, but, given the dour
history of the Jewish people, not entirely surprising. However, today
Jews have a way of dealing with attitudes and behaviour such as yours
- it is called Israel, the homeland of the Jewish people.

Your aversion to Israel is most understandable. Early 20th century
Russians who perpetrated pogroms against my people, the Nazis of
Germany in the '40's and all anti-Semites through history, would
surely have shared your dislike. It is unacceptable, after all, for a
Jew to pick up a weapon and defend himself, his people and his
family. That sort of behaviour on our side surely does not lend itself
very well to allowing the persecution of my people.

So, Mr. McGuire, please know this. Israel is here to stay. It is a
major world player and will always remain so. Israel will do what it
must to protect itself and its people through out this world. Of
course Israel wants peace - but peace will not be achieved at the
expense of the well being of the Jews. At long last, Wayne, Jews do
not stand idly by while their homes and fields are ravaged by those
who hate them. Jews have learned to defend themselves. And we are not
about to forget the lessons that this world has so cruely taught us
for the last 2,000 years.

So be troubled, Mr. McGuire. Be troubled by this new bunch of Jews who
are ready and able to defend them selves and their home land. And keep
on ranting and spreading your lies and false hoods about my people.
But please know this, Mr. McGuire, the Jews will never allow this
world to do to us what it has done through out history. And this, Mr.
McGuire, is very fortunately a fact which will remain so despite all
that you and those like you may do or say.

Harry.
Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast,soc.culture.arabic
From: astein@nysernet.org (Alan Stein)
Subject: Re: Deportee Mistaken Identity
Organization: NYSERNet, Inc.
Date: Thu, 31 Dec 1992 20:08:36 GMT

varvel@plains.NoDak.edu (Andrew Varvel) writes:

>>Thank you for pointing out that, when Israel makes a mistake, it
>>rectifies it.  Thus we can all be sure that any of those deported in
>>error will be permitted to return when the error is realized.

>Hmmm.  If Israel made mistakes in identifying 6 or 10 deportees, how can we
>really be sure that any of the deportations were of the right people in
>Hamas or even Hamas supporters?  What's worse for Israel is that the people 
>who may not have been Hamas supporters before being expelled might start 
>thinking it's a good idea.  After all, what do they have to lose?

It appears that most of the mistakes discovered so far involve
terrorists who are already being prosecuted for their crimes.  The
mistakes did not involve temporarily deporting innocent people, but
deporting the wrong terrorists.
-- 
Alan H. Stein                     astein@israel.nysernet.org
Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast
From: osamakl@iastate.edu (Osama Al-Shaykh-Yousef)
Subject: Re: Jihad is self-defence
Organization: Iowa State University, Ames IA
Date: Mon, 28 Dec 1992 14:29:57 GMT

In <1992Dec28.071750.7631@mnemosyne.cs.du.edu> msilverm@nyx.cs.du.edu (Mike Silverman) writes:

>osamakl@iastate.edu (Osama Al-Shaykh-Yousef) writes:

>>>>   Jihad is self defense.

>>What do you call you army?
>>It is the Israeli defensive army. War is self defense!


>If someone else attacks you, and you fight back, than yes, war
>is self-defense.

I agree with you. But, If you start a war or attack someone who
did not attack you then it won't be self-defense.

>--
>msilverm@nyx.cs.du.edu				GO CUBS!!!

>"One likes to believe in the freedom of baseball" - Geddy Lee
From: "wayne mcguire" <wayne.mcguire@channel1.com>
Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast
Subject: jewish fundamentalism
Date: 25 Dec 92 11:06:48 EST
Reply-To: "wayne mcguire" <wayne.mcguire@channel1.com>
Distribution: talk
Organization: Channel 1 Communications

To: John Lovett

WM>Nor is this genocidal rhetoric limited solely to Kahane and his
WM>followers. Ehud Sprinzak in The Ascendance of Israel's Radical
WM>Right (New York: Oxford University Press, 1991) produces numerous
WM>quotes in this repulsive vein from Jewish fundamentalists in
WM>Israel outside the Kahane school of ultra-racist ultra-violence.
WM>I'll be happy to post them all here if anyone doubts my word.

 JL> I don't doubt your word, but I would like to see them.

Will do, sometime in the next few weeks, after I retrieve my copy
of the  book from the person I lent it to.
---
  OLX 3.01 31-2557  deepest secrets revealing algorithms
--
Channel 1 (R)   Cambridge, MA
From: aaldoubo@copper.denver.colorado.edu (Shaqeeqa)
Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast
Subject: Re: Israeli soldiers kill Palestinian boy
Date: 22 Dec 92 21:47:22 GMT
Organization: University of Colorado at Denver

In article <1992Dec17.221553.27455@bony1.bony.com> jake@bony1.bony.com (Jake Livni) writes:
>
>I can't seem to interpret this in any other way than that Palestinian
>violence against Palestinians is somehow justified.  Despite seeing
>this presented as an argument quite a lot of times, I am still at a
>loss about its logic. Perhaps you can explain it?

Perhaps you will understand it better when the Israeli government
keeps perpetuating division between Palestinian peoples - like trying
to justify their expulsions of accused Hamas members through making
them appear the 'real enemy' of the Palestinian peoples and of the
peace talks itself.  Perhaps you have been following on the news how
they want Palestinians to condemn the Hamas while they refuse to
recognize Palestinian legitimacy and don't expect to be condemned
for their own suppression and crimes against the Palestinian people
themselves.

Anisa

	"Dreaming of mercy street, where you're inside out"

	"Find your sisters and brothers who can hear all the
	truth in what you say.  They can support you when you're
	on your way"
From: c23st@kocrsv01.delcoelect.com (Spiros Triantafyllopoulos)
Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast
Subject: Arxid stats for the last two weeks (regular post)
Date: 23 Dec 1992 07:58:46 -0600
Organization: UTexas Mail-to-News Gateway
NNTP-Posting-Host: cs.utexas.edu

This week's stats show our feathered friend in the #11 spot, with
170 articles posted, 871 KB of volume, and accounting for less than
0.1 percent of traffic.

  11   170     871.4  0.1%   sera@zuma.UUCP  (Serdar Argic)
                              14% soc.culture.europe
                              14% soc.culture.greek
                              14% talk.politics.mideast
                              13% soc.culture.turkish
                              13% soc.history
                              10% talk.politics.soviet
                              5% soc.culture.soviet

Surprisingly, he has stopped posting in his home group of soc.culture.turkish.
Any explanation/theory will be appreciated. I am anxious... Also, today's
pick had 29 Arxidies (articles) in one shot.  

Spiros
--
              ___        _____________________________
             |  o\__    | Ne mutlu anti-Argic diyene? | Beef: Real Food 
}}            \  __/ ___| Ne mutlu anti-Mutlu diyene! |       for Real People
}}}    ____   / /    \          (Old Turkish Proverb) |
}}}}__/}}}}\_/ /      \_______________________________| Feathers: Real Clothes
}}/  }}}}}}    \                                               for real Chicken
  \   }}}}   }}/                                              
   \__ }}____}/        Spiros Triantafyllopoulos        
      \ /              c23st@kocrsv01.delcoelect.com    
       |/_                                               
       '\               
Xref: sparky talk.politics.mideast:23935 talk.politics.soviet:9919 soc.culture.greek:11790 soc.culture.europe:10724 soc.history:10329 soc.culture.soviet:11444 soc.culture.bosna-herzgvna:941 soc.culture.croatia:208
From: makowsky@enuxhb.eas.asu.edu (David Makowsky)
Subject: Re: A pragmatic view of the deportation
Reply-To: makowsky@enuxhb.eas.asu.edu (David Makowsky)
Organization: Arizona State University, Tempe AZ
Date: Mon, 28 Dec 1992 21:13:44 GMT

In article <1992Dec28.181500.12873@ncsu.edu> hernlem@chess.ncsu.EDU (Brad Hernlem) writes:

# In article <1992Dec28.155755.5108@nysernet.org>, astein@nysernet.org
# (Alan Stein) writes:

# > hernlem@chess.ncsu.EDU (Brad Hernlem) writes:
 
# > >According to reports that I have heard, even Rabin's government is not
# > >claiming that these men have killed anyone. Are you?
 
# > One does not have to pull the trigger to be responsible for murder.  I
# > don't recall Hitler actually killing anyone himself either.
 
# Please tell this to those folks who I have seen on television and heard
# on the radio who chant "death to Arabs". There would be a lot of people
# being deported from Israel if the reason that the recent deportees were
# deported was such verbal support for killing. 


	Wrong.  The people you are referring to have been forced to become
acquainted with Arab terrorism.  They have not joined organizations
whose raison de etre is to kill people in order to terrorize.
--
	There are three types of people in the world.  Those that are good
at math and those that are not.

makowsky@enuxhb.eas.asu.edu
Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast