Newsgroups: talk.religion.misc
Subject: Re: Free Will / Evil / Creation
From: adams@spss.com (Steve Adams)
Date: Thu, 27 Aug 1992 17:54:54 GMT
Organization: SPSS Inc.

n5ppm264 (Charlie Board) writes:

>In article <adams.714855255@spssig>, adams@spss.com (Steve Adams) writes:

>> Hmm.  You have an interesting definition of a logical trap.  If God creates
>> a universe of people with 'free will' who do not sin, there still has to be
>> the logical possibility of evil.  If there is no possible way to do evil,
>> then there is no free will.

>Huh? I don't understand the last sentence.

If there is no way possible to do a thing, you are not exercising free will
by not doing it.  If evil were not an actual logical possibility, then not
doing it would not be an exercise of free will.

>> It is entirely possible for God to create a being that would always make
>> the right choice.  But I don't see this as free will, for if the being
>  ^^^
>> always makes the right choice, there is no possibility that they will do
>> evil, thus no real possibility, thus no free will.

>Ahh,now I see. You're making the (indefensible) assumption that every choice
>at which free will could apply must be between "THE right choice" or "an evil
>choice". Can you give a logical reason why God couldn't create a universe in
>which free will existed as freedom to choose between multiple options on a
>given event BUT none were evil? If not, then you have no grounds to state
>that free will & lack of evil are incompatible.
You have to go back to the beginning.  Assuming that God's desire was to
recieve freely given worship and love from His created beings, they must
have had the actualy possibilty of rejecting God.  If they were created
such that they would ALWAYS chose to worship God, then there never was an
actualy possibility that they wouldn't.  And thus, no free will.  The same
applies to 'evil'.

>Let me try to cook up a half-baked analogy to illustrate.
OK.

>Suppose I decide (using my free will:)) to go to Boston (from Raleigh). I 
>must use my free will to decide how to accomplish this. Among the options are
>the folowing:
>     1) drive my car
>     2) buy a plane ticket
>     3) go by bus
>     4) blink my eyes and be transported there immediately
>     5) steal a car and drive
>     6) flap my arms and fly
>     7) hitchhike the whole way, murdering everyone who gives me a ride

>Now, the only choices here that entail evil are 5 & 7. Why couldn't an 
>omnipotent creator create me in such a manner that these options never 
>occur to me? Would that limitation eliminate my free will? If so, then why
>doesn't the fact that I'm created in such a manner that 4 & 6 don't occur
>to me eliminate my free will?
If the option's are real, true possibilities, then they aren't really
options.  Compare this with lifting a 200 ton boulder.  You 'decide' not to
lift it.  Your decision is moot, since you cannot lift it under any
circumstances.  In other words, the logical possibility must exist for a
choice to exist.  Otherwise there is no real choice.

 -Steve
--
 The opinions expressed above are those of the author and not SPSS, Inc.
                        -------------------
     adams@spss.com                           Phone: (312) 329-3522
     Steve Adams                              Fax:   (312) 329-3558