HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: lesher@spica.cs.bucknell.edu (T. Lesher)
Newsgroups: rec.games.mud.admin
Subject: Re: Character Names and Memory
Date: 16 Dec 1992 05:05:52 GMT
Organization: Bucknell University, Lewisburg, PA
NNTP-Posting-Host: spica.cs.bucknell.edu

In article <JAMIE.92Dec16114928@kauri.vuw.ac.nz> jamie@kauri.vuw.ac.nz (Jamieson Norrish) writes:
>In article <1992Dec14.151559.2817@cnsvax.uwec.edu>
>bakerje@cnsvax.uwec.edu writes:
>
>[Slight snip.]

 [Slightly bigger snip.]
>
>   As for the WHO or @who list, on CyberWorld MUD, you only get a
>   list of people YOU know (ie have been in contact with during that
>   playing session) and Administration.
>
>I suppose this is a good compromise; I prefer not having WHO at all though.
>

On MUSHes, where almost all your interaction is with player characters
and not NPCs, if you log in and no one else is on, it's difficult to
plan TinyPlots, etc.  If I log on and no one else is on (for God knows
what reason), I don't want to have to walk around for an hour Realtime
to have to find this out!  There are some things that you simply can't
simulate in a virtual environment; one is the fact that people exist
24/7 in real life, and not even close to that in VR.  Well, most of
them... :)

>   obviously.  If you are using a MUD, it is probably for RP. If you are using

[more snipping]

>Hrm, role-playing is not a word that springs readily to my mind in
>connection with MUDs. Indeed, for me, it's almost the antithesis. That
>may be, of course, differences in definition. My definition of
>role-playing is, quite simple, playing a role (other than your real
>self). I see precious little of that going on in any MUD I've visited,

I was going to say this as well, but that's the kind of thing that
gets LP vs MUSH, Diku vs MUSE, "My Mu* is better than your Mu* because
blah blah blah" flamewars started.  :)



--
Tim Lesher <lesher@bucknell.edu>
Newsgroups: rec.games.mud.admin
Subject: Re: Character names and memory
From: jamie@kauri.vuw.ac.nz (Jamieson Norrish)
Date: Sun, 20 Dec 1992 03:01:00 GMT
 <BzB5vn.44K@brunel.ac.uk><hhelanto.724741001@vipunen.hut.fi><1992Dec19.080447.5381@leland.Stanford.EDU>
Organization: /u/student/jamie/.organization

In article <1992Dec19.080447.5381@leland.Stanford.EDU>
whale@leland.Stanford.EDU (Stephen Schmidt) writes:

   Well, hey, that's what the real world is like. If you're standing in a
   bus station and someone steals your wallet, do you instantly become
   gifted with knowledge of his name so you can report him?  I appreciate
   that this may be less of a problem in Finland than it is here in the
   States.... :)

   On the other hand, think about what a "name" is: it's a unique string
   of characters that identifies a player. There's no difference between
   saying "Fred Smith" and saying "Thief 68", as either one uniquely
   identifies the other character, except for a little ambience. What you
   should realy do, as was suggested, is have a description, where the
   description can be up to a couple lines long and doesn't have to be
   unique... although the player probably should not be able to alter it
   at will either.

Yes, that's it. A unique (?) description for everybody, which cannot
be changed except for a good reason, and with the help of a wizard,
would be the default for everyone. Then, each player can redefine the
name of a particular dbref (for those who don't use the term dbref,
it's the number of the object in the database) to be whatever they
like.

As to the thief problem - if you see who did it, then you'll know,
whatever their name is, even if it's Thief34. On the other hand, if
you didn't see who did it (as you seem to be suggesting above) then
why should you get that information when you look at who's in the
room (as was pointed out above)?

One aspect of my proposed naming system hasn't been discussed yet, and
that is the effect it will have on atmosphere. I still believe, even
when players can name anything as anything they like, that they should
pick a name for themselves which is in keeping with the setting, and
that this is the name that they should role-play as having.

When names are simply tags set by players, then it could easily act to
break down the atmosphere of a setting - would then the use (in
talking/whispering/shouting etc) of different names need to be
prohibited? Or would players naturally dislike being called by various
names, none of which are the same as their chosen name? I know that if
people started calling me David, I would tell them that it wasn't my
name, and that I would prefer they used my real name. But would this
same thing happen on a MU*?

Jamie
From: alansz@cogsci.Berkeley.EDU (Alan Schwartz)
Newsgroups: rec.games.mud.admin
Subject: Re: Administrative Procedures for a new MU*
Date: 11 Dec 1992 20:04:38 GMT
Organization: Institute of Cognitive Studies, U.C. Berkeley
NNTP-Posting-Host: cogsci.berkeley.edu

In article <1992Dec11.020549.16184@news.media.mit.edu> asb@media.mit.edu (Amy Bruckman) writes:
>
>Some folks here have started a new MU* here (a MOO), and I feel like we're
>trying to reinvent the wheel when it comes to administrative
>procedures.  I'd really really appreciate hints and ideas from
>other MU* administrators about these questions:
>
>* How do you divide administrative tasks amongst the 
>	wizards/gods/janitors/directors/administrators?

A traditional approach is to have one person at the top (God), and
a set of wizards/admins. Typically, you define tasks and then
divy them up. Some typical tasks might be: building supervision,
player help, MOO-coding, etc. For role-playing MU*'s, you'll need
people to GM the RPG, too.

An alternative administration structure that has been suggested
(particularly for RP environments) is the Architect system.
For complete details, ftp to caisr2.caisr.cwru.edu and get
Arch-book from /pub/mush.

>* How do you decide whether someone gets more quota?

Assuming they've asked for it, I usually review their current
building/creation to see that it meets standards (more on this
below). If it does, and they have a project in mind for the
new quota, they get it. Sometimes God likes to be the only one
to do this. Often, God allows all wizards to grant small increases.
This policy will vary based on your db space.

>* How do you decide whether something gets publicly linked?

I put a "building code" in my news file for the MU*. All building
is initially floating or linked to a separate nexus until the
builder calls a wizard over to inspect it (usually the building
inspection wizard :). If it conforms to code, it gets linked.

>* How do you decide if an object can be installed in a public place?

As with building, though this usually falls more in the domain of
the coding wizard (though any admin could do it). 

Some trickier issues around this are:
*How do you decide if an object should get special privileges
 (IMMORTAL, ROYAL, WIZARD, etc, on a MUSH)?
*How do you decide if an object belongs in the master room as a 
 global?

(No firm suggestions here. I usualy go with the will of God. :)

- Alan

-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
                                 |          Alan Schwartz         
Belkira@Belgariad II             | alansz@cogsci.berkeley.edu
 Indena@Mua'kaar                 | UC Berkeley                        
Javelin@Belgariad, and elsewhere | Cognitive Psychology        
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
From: tan1@husc10.harvard.edu (Joseph Tan)
Newsgroups: rec.games.mud.admin
Subject: Re: Character names and memory
Date: 20 Dec 92 03:13:23 GMT
Organization: Harvard University Science Center

Either I missed something or, amazingly, everyone forgot to credit
Genesis in this discussion about names and memory.  They've required
'introduce' for quite a while now and their 'who' lists only those
people you remember in addition to the number of people logged on.

Also, I implemented an anonymity system on 5thDimension that works
similar to the one on Genesis.  I haven't been on Cyberworld or
Armageddon so I don't know about theirs.  If you're starting from
scratch, it's not so bad, but otherwise, it can prove a real pain.

----
Newsgroups: rec.games.mud.admin
From: cawhite@bnr.ca
Subject: Re: Character names and memory
Reply-To: cawhite@bnr.ca
Organization: Bell-Northern Research, Ottawa, Canada
Date: Mon, 14 Dec 1992 14:53:40 GMT

Knowing a character's name on sight isn't too unreasonable, I think.
You should be able to recognize someone you have met before, even if
you don't know that someone's name. Unfortunately we don't have the
ability to see faces on MUDs (except on BSXMuds?), so names seem like
the next best way of identifying someone. Perhaps it can be written
off as being your own internal label for that character until you've
found out his or her real name.

Who-lists are a different case, in my opinion. If people are to be
able to see on command those scattered around world about them, I'd
prefer there be some rationalization for it. Perhaps there could be
a number of spells, of varying degrees of effectiveness, to serve in
place of the "who" command.
From: bakerje@cnsvax.uwec.edu
Newsgroups: rec.games.mud.admin
Subject: MUSE/MUSH JOB WANTED!!!! :)
Date: 11 Dec 92 12:19:27 -0600
Organization: University of Wisconsin Eau Claire


WANTED:

	Wizard job on a MUSE/MUSH. I have good coding experience and
I am willing to put in alot of time and energy. Most importantly, I am
very imaginative and creative. I think I would be an asset to a MUSE.
If you would like help with your MUSE and/or need Wizards, please
Email me at bakerje@cnsvax.uwec.edu.
	Another plus is that I like to work late nights, when there tends
to be a lack of Wizards (or Directors). I could be your latenight man :).
Also, if you MUSE/MUSH is SciFi based, I know alot about roleplaying in
that area (though it doesn't have to be SciFi).

						Hope to hear from you,

						James
Newsgroups: rec.games.mud.admin
From: kavli@plains.NoDak.edu (Tammy Kavli)
Subject: Re: Stealing FarSide
Date: Tue, 15 Dec 1992 04:49:51 GMT
Organization: North Dakota Higher Education Computing Network

In article <BywDK9.KF6@newcastle.ac.uk> Richard.Dalton@newcastle.ac.uk (Richard Dalton) writes:
>whale@leland.Stanford.EDU (Stephen Schmidt) writes:
>
>[Stuff deleted]
>
>>2. You have no positive evidence (that I've seen) that Darkone did the
>>rming, only circumstantial evidence.
>>3. I don't know how you concluded that the guilty party had to be one of
>>the three wizards Melvaig, Darkone, Daroki. What makes it impossible for
>>some other person to have been the culprit?
>

It really is a pity that I came into this arguement so late.  I unfortunatly
did not get to read this article in it's entirety, but it seems as though
someone wants actuall able-to-be-proven reasons as to why Zaph believes
that Darkone was a culprit.  Well, I don't know Zaph's reasons, but I know
mine.  I also know a few people who SAW Darkone removing said files.
     I would not complain as much had the files that had been removed not
been vital to the running of the mud.  I also wouldn't complain had something
been put in their place to keep the mud running.  As it was, it led to the
premature closing of Farside, and when Oblivion opened they opened it telling
people that it was the "new Farside".  I feel that it is quite untrue, since
Farside is reopening somewhere else.  I do feel that Oblivion, which I hear
is moving over to Mudos, should return at least a copy of those files to 
Merlin, as it would help maintain a good relationship between the two, since
I don't believe it's Oblivion's administrators fault that it happened, and 
I do think that Oblivion deserves a chance too.
     Also, had the files been given to Oblivion, why would they then ban 
the site in Newcastle from being able to log in?  No...it isn't just
problems between computers causing the problem.  A friend of mine has
told me that he actually saw their site on the banned list.  It really is
not good policy, and I would also have to say it's not really an appropriate
thing to do.
     Feel free to comment on this if you'd like.  I've gotten alot of my
info from first-hand sources....but I'm sure I don't have all the facts.
(If I did...I'd be God....and not of a mud either.)  I just would like 
to have peace between the two, and the way things look right now, it's not
hapenning.

Tammy Kavli		
kavli@plains.nodak.edu

Lady Morgein, wife of Merlin ...Farside.
Tera.....on just about any other mud I decide to log into for fun. *:)

---------------------------------------------------------------------------
My favorite part of the oreo is the whole thing!
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Newsgroups: rec.games.mud.admin
Subject: Re: Character names and memory
From: nop@theory.Mankato.MSUS.EDU (Jay A. Carlson)
Date: 15 Dec 92 05:43:31
Organization: Mankato State University
In-reply-to: jamie@kauri.vuw.ac.nz's message of Tue, 15 Dec 1992 00:35:16 GMTLines: 28

In article <JAMIE.92Dec15123516@kauri.vuw.ac.nz> jamie@kauri.vuw.ac.nz (Jamieson Norrish) writes:

   To change tack slightly, has anyone implemented or thought of
   implementing a semi-automatic description creator, whereby certain
   fixed attributes always remain in the description, and whereby clothes
   and other such items appear not in the inventory but in the
   description, with their own set line or two?

   For example, someone picks up a cloak. This automatically adds on a
   line in the character's description saying, maybe, "So-and-so is
   wearing a tatty old cloak that would barely serve to keep out the
   wind." This way, when someone looks at someone, they get a description
   which actually matches what they are carrying, rather than just having
   items listed in an inventory.

Implemented several ways on LambdaMOO and JaysHouseMOO, and probably
every other MOO under the name of "integration".  

There are some tricky bits when this is applied to, say, rooms---if a
cup is on a table, you want the table and cup to appear in the room
description as "A black cup sits on the ancient pearwood table."
Actually, the whole situation gets nighmarish as you try for higher
and higher levels of text quality and realism.

   Jamie

Jay Carlson    Jonny@LambdaMOO
nop@theory.cs.mankato.msus.edu
From: djohnson@cs.ucsd.edu (Darin Johnson)
Newsgroups: rec.games.mud.admin
Subject: Re: Memory-Usage Question
Date: 15 Dec 92 19:34:20 GMT
Organization: =CSE Dept., U.C. San Diego

>>... when I boot it on a Sun, ...
>>... But when I boot it on a Sparc, ...

Odd, considering that a Sparc is a Sun.
-- 
Darin Johnson
djohnson@ucsd.edu
    "Are you a doctor?"   "No, but I watched."
Newsgroups: rec.games.mud.admin
From: jamie@kauri.vuw.ac.nz (Jamieson Norrish)
Subject: Re: Character names and memory
Organization: /u/student/jamie/.organization
Date: Mon, 14 Dec 1992 09:03:34 GMT
	<1992Dec14.043803.15651@ramsey.cs.laurentian.ca>

In article <1992Dec14.043803.15651@ramsey.cs.laurentian.ca>
waynem@ramsey.cs.laurentian.ca (Wayne McDonald) writes:

      As I understand it, most of the games are for roleplaying and
   killing monsters(quests,...), but they are also social games and
   the your suggestion would seem to limit that.

I think that in terms of roleplaying, restricting information which
characters have no reason for having would provide a beneficial
atmosphere in which players would operate. If players wish to chat, or
just kill things, they can go to a MU* which is more suitable.

I make no secret of the fact that I am probably catering for a very
small minority of the total MU* players out there, and that no one
will share all my views. However, I think some people at least would
like to see this sort of thing, and so I ask all of you, and not just
them, how some things could best be achieved.

Jamie
Newsgroups: rec.games.mud.admin
From: michele@ccs.yorku.ca (Michele Marques)
Subject: Re: starting up a MUD?
Organization: York University, Help Services, CCS
Date: Wed, 16 Dec 1992 13:20:59 GMT

In article <MJB.92Dec10171039@oak41.doc.ic.ac.uk> mjb@doc.ic.ac.uk (Matthew J Brown) writes:


   In article <ByuzJ6.M08@shyguy.lonestar.org> bmyers@shyguy.lonestar.org (bob myers) writes:

   > 1)  If I pull down the source for one of these packages (be it
   > Diku, pennMUSH, TinyMUCK, LambdaMOO, etc.), is there sufficient
   > code included in the package to start out with an 'interesting' world?
   > or, would I have to start from scratch?

   Generally, the most you can hope for is a couple of rooms. LambdaMOO,
   for example, comes with a LambdaCore database (It's not actually in
   the source distribution, but is a seperate file - it's over a megabyte
   in size). This contains about seventy objects, mostly generic parent
   objects. There's only one useable room and three players. I doubt
   whether many Tiny-type MUDs come with much more.

Tinymud 1.5.4 (and 1.5.5) comes with tinybase.db (which is also in
some places by itself).  This is the grid from which Islandia was
developed and includes a few puzzles and buildings.  Most tiny*s can
convert tinymud dbs into their own flavour.

ApexMUD (130.63.237.12 4201) also developed on top of tinybase - which
is in the Islandville dimension. The Periland dimension is from a
piece of tinybase which was mush-ified greatly.

		-- Michele

--
Michele Marques                      | UUCP: ....!utzoo!yunexus!michele
Computing Help Services              | Internet: michele@apex.ccs.yorku.ca
Computing & Communications Services  | Bitnet:   michele@yuorion
York University                      | Voice:    +1-416-736-5800
Newsgroups: rec.games.mud.admin
From: stine@handel.psu.edu (Jeffrey Stine)
Subject: Re: Multiple currencies
Organization: Penn State University
Date: Sat, 12 Dec 92 07:14:53 GMT

In article <JAMIE.92Dec12175417@kauri.vuw.ac.nz> jamie@kauri.vuw.ac.nz (Jamieson Norrish) writes:
>In article <baljeual.724102873@uther> baljeual@uther.calvin.edu (Alan
>Baljeu) writes:
>[...]
>   tell people who want his prize to go find him the Quartz Stone of
>   Seeing Where People Are, or whatever he wills.  Thus, they go off
>   on a quest (which you never even coded!) and that certain player
>               ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>
>Heed these words!
>
>   uses his skill in finding Magical Rubber Armor to become very
>   powerful in the community, through his bartering business. This
>   seems to me to add a dimension to the game.
>
>Thank you for that example; it demonstrates exactly one of the points
>I've been trying to make - it's not necessary to code in everything in
>a MU*; the players are certainly able to create their own things to
>do, whether it be quests or guilds. As Alan says, a barter system
>could add a whole new dimension to the game, whilst requiring no extra
>coding (and could even result in the removal of most of the shops).
>
>
I will admit this is a good example of how trade can/will occur and that
it adds dimension etc etc
One thing I have to question though is what is the purpose of the above
mentioned stone? _Why_ should that person want it? Something has to get
the ball rolling. And while it doesn't have to be everything, you still
need to code some sort of starting base, some way of kickstarting the
system now and then. In a real simulation total barter would be much
more interesting than an endless supply of things at your local shops.
And of course any questing involves goals. The way you talked I didn't
think you desired for the MU* to have any Jamie ;)

Oh and one other thing about the example before I forget again.
A person with a RL knack for obtaining a certain object probably
has a pretty good playing ability and could easily get the stone
on his own. Though I would allow for exceptions - lack of knowledge
for one (barter for info). The possibilty to code in the occurance
of more exceptions in order to keep a barter system viable is relevant.

-jeff
From: cossett@ac.dal.ca
Newsgroups: rec.games.mud.admin
Subject: Re: Stealing FarSide
Date: 15 Dec 92 22:13:38 -0400
Organization: Dalhousie University, Halifax, Nova Scotia, Canada

     Not that I want to drag this issue on any longer, but I have to
mention something I have noticed. Ever since people started asking for
Darkone to show HIS proof, or to email it, he has shut up. There has not
been a single post from him on the isse. Could this be because he was just
blowing wind? Who knows? I am still waiting for 'your' proof Darkone, if
you actually have any. 

                                   Tim Cossett
                                   Flint@Ancient Anguish
                                   Happily Married to Jasmina
                                   Mud marriages perfomed on request.

P.S. Isn;t it funny how reality can shut some people up? :)
From: anipa@cs.tut.fi (Niilo Neuvo)
Newsgroups: rec.games.mud.admin
Subject: Re: Character names and memory
Date: 15 Dec 92 15:55:09
Organization: Tampere U of Technology, Finland
Distribution: world
	<JAMIE.92Dec15123516@kauri.vuw.ac.nz>
NNTP-Posting-Host: kaarne.cs.tut.fi
In-reply-to: jamie@kauri.vuw.ac.nz's message of Tue, 15 Dec 1992 00:35:16 GMT

jamie@kauri.vuw.ac.nz (Jamieson Norrish) writes:
> To change tack slightly, has anyone implemented or thought of
> implementing a semi-automatic description creator, whereby certain
> fixed attributes always remain in the description, and whereby clothes
> and other such items appear not in the inventory but in the
> description, with their own set line or two?

On lpmuds based on the 2.4.5 mudlib items could add lines to the
players description. Guess most lpmuds still support that feature.
This is used to some extent, but once you have something like 10 items
worn things would get rather complicated.

> For example, someone picks up a cloak. This automatically adds on a
> line in the character's description saying, maybe, "So-and-so is
> wearing a tatty old cloak that would barely serve to keep out the
> wind." This way, when someone looks at someone, they get a description
> which actually matches what they are carrying, rather than just having
> items listed in an inventory.

On the mud I run you see the stuff the player/monster is wearing. I
thought all dikus used something similar to it.

------ clip clap ------
> look
A small treasure room (u).
Two Small sailor chests
Geraldine Tataglia the dark Elf Mage
Newbie castle guard
> look at geraldine
Geraldine Tataglia the dark Elf Mage.
She is a tall and slim girl with long brown hair and bright eyes.
When you talk to her you notice her best weapon is her intelligence,
and that she is working hard to be one of the best mages around.
She is slightly hurt.
        Geraldine's equipment:
head:           Magician's pointed hat (glowing)
amulet:         A copper amulet (glowing)
finger:         A small glowing ring (internal light/darkness off)
left arm and right arm:         A pair of silvery sleeves (glowing)
held:           ball of protection
cloak:          cloak of the magi (glowing)
right leg and left leg:         A scotsman's kilt
belt:           A strong looking belt
left foot and right foot:       The Darkboots (lightly enchanted and glowing)
finger:         A small glowing ring (internal light/darkness off)
------ clip clap ------

This is not exactly what you are looking for, but it is rather close
to it. You could always have three descriptions for an item: short,
long and worn desc (the system above uses only the short and long
descs).

Btw. the description between slightly hurt and the short desc is
something the player can define to be what ever he/she wishes.

++Anipa
--
      NN   NN  NN   NN  NNNNNNNN
    NNNN    N  NN    N  NNNNNN
  NNNNNN  N    NN  N    NNNN
NNNNNNNN  NN   NN  NN   NN