HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: msjle@uxa.ecn.bgu.edu (Joi L. Ellis)
Newsgroups: alt.fan.pern
Subject: Re: What's this "sweet sand" stuff?
Date: 20 Aug 92 14:24:05 GMT
Organization: Educational Computing Network

rick@ee.uwm.edu (Rick Miller) writes:

>At first, I thought perhaps they didn't have soap, but then I saw
>references to that too...  So what's "sweet sand"?  Is it just soap
>with sand in it?

I always think of something like some powdered soaps, some of those are
*pretty gritty* until they dissolve.

>...and as long as I'm asking questions...
>Am I to understand that Robinton (Master Harper in the DragonFlight
>trilogy) was like Lessa and Brekke, in that he could hear all dragons?
>The whole telepathy business was rather confusing to keep track of.

>Who can hear what?  Can dragons overhear conversations between other
>dragons? or can they only hear when they're being specifically bespoken?
>(What I'm getting at is,
>	Has anyone seen any reference in MacAffrey's books to
>	a dragon/firelizard/human 'overhearing' a 'bespeak'
>	which wasn't intended for them to hear?)

>Rick Miller   <rick@ee.uwm.edu> | <rick@discus.mil.wi.us>

Well, Aramina in Renegades could hear the dragons and used the talent to
avoid falls during hunting expeditions.  Thella wanted her to lead
Thella's band away from pursuers.  I got the impression Aramina could
overhear conversations not intended for her 'ears'.

Brekke could hear all dragons, but I suppose the dragons could have been
either overheard, or they could have been deliberately directing echos
her way to keep her company.

It seems they can talk to whoever they wish to, but generally don't wish
to.

Joi Ellis
msjle@uxa.ecn.bgu.edu
Western Illinois University
Newsgroups: alt.fan.pern
From: kmiles@dori.eecs.wsu.edu (Kilroy was here =))
Subject: Re: De-wizzing on DragonsDawn...
Organization: Washington State University
Date: Tue, 18 Aug 92 23:57:51 GMT

The reason Shadowhawk made that posting was that he was warned that players would start flinging mud at DD, and he wanted to say why it was done. I also feel that it is fair to let others know what is going on at DD instead of hearing second or third hand on another MUSH.  J'ren
From: Edward.L.Wallace@dartmouth.edu (Edward L. Wallace)
Newsgroups: alt.fan.pern
Subject: Re: De-wizzing on DragonsDawn...
Date: 18 Aug 92 18:52:27 GMT
Organization: Dartmouth College, Hanover, NH

In article <1992Aug18.084056.20795@iitmax.iit.edu>
mush@elof.iit.edu (Dragons Dawn) writes:

> 	The DragonsDawn MUSH has recently been beset by a problem where
> a group of players and one wizard have been in contention with the
> 'head wiz' of DD.  As God on DD, I was prevailed upon to make some
> sort of decision to end the feuding.  

[various other things deleted]

>                                       Thank you for your time,
>                                                  Shadowhawk
>                                                  DragonsDawn God

Shadowhawk, you've made an interesting judgement call.  I don't refer
to removing Xavior's Wizbit. I refer more to posting your 'policy' onto
Usenet. This is, in all actuality a matter which concerns _only_ the
users of DragonsDawn MUSH - I fail to see what your justifications for
posting this on a.f.p. are.
 
Frankly, I feel like it's a _bad_ call for a God of a MUSH to turn to
a.f.p. to publically put down the actions of one of his wizards. That
is something that should be handled on a personal level and let lie -
throwing it to the public is asking for attention and scandal. 
Attention that most people don't feel like giving - and scandal you'd
no doubt be better off without.
 
It is the *JOB* of any God to keep wizards as a cohesive working unit:
this doesn't mean they necessarily have to be in love with one another,
what it _DOES_ mean is a mutual respect - and respect from 'God' as
well.  Your post here shows that while you've taken the steps you felt
are necessary - you have betrayed any respect you had for one of your
wizards.  This matter doesn't _deserve_ public scrutiny.  Xavior
doesn't _deserve_ a public flogging. 
 
Instead he's been 'asked' to resign and apparently encouraged to 'keep
on keepin' on' with DragonsDawn. After doing that, you've taken some
interesting methods to insure your parting was professional only -
among them posting to  Usenet that he's a liar.

I question your ethics and your purposes, Shadowhawk.  Instead of
accomplishing the quiet resignation of a wizard for 'misbehavior'
you've managed, in my mind, to call question to your own actions.

I constantly asked several questions while reading your post and it all
summed up to: Why?

As an experienced Wizard and as someone who has run M*'s from his own
accounts (i.e. I'm no neophyte) I can only say that I'm shocked at this
post. It had been my impression that most MUSE/MUSH/MUCK/MOO wizzes and
gods were relatively sane and mature, with at least a modicum of
foresight and responsibility. Instead your post shows little forsight,
and little concern for the responsibility your position calls for.

Falryx @ Most places.
Newsgroups: alt.fan.pern
From: cb317@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Stephanie J. Kessler)
Subject: Re: Questions....
Organization: Case Western Reserve University, Cleveland, Ohio, (USA)
Date: Thu, 20 Aug 92 20:27:09 GMT


I believe the topic of the space station is discussed in The
Renegades of Pern, where a lot of information is gathered about
the colonists which traveled to Pern originally (I might have the
wrong book, I have been so eager to read All The Weyrs of Pern,
that I cannot remember which book covers which part anymore.  I
believe it is Renegades (I am fairly sure it is, since that is the
last book, and it ends with the finding of the computer).  If I'm
wrong, someone will straighten me out, I'm sure.
-- 
The United States is a nation of laws:  badly written and
randomly enforced.     Frank Zappa

cb317 @ cleveland.Freenet.Edu
Newsgroups: alt.fan.pern
From: mush@elof.iit.edu (Dragons Dawn)
Subject: De-wizzing on DragonsDawn...
Organization: Illinois Institute of Technology, Chicago
Date: Tue, 18 Aug 92 08:40:56 GMT


	The DragonsDawn MUSH has recently been beset by a problem where
a group of players and one wizard have been in contention with the
'head wiz' of DD.  As God on DD, I was prevailed upon to make some
sort of decision to end the feuding.  The choices I see as being
given to me were esentially to de-wiz one of the two wizards involved.
After discussion with both parties, I felt that Xavior was the one
whom I that I would not prefer as a wiz.  Several things which I have
heard from several sources (including a mostly uninvolved wizard) have
indicated the Xavior was either lying, or had some very incredible mood
swings.  He told me he was interested in protecting the other wizard,
Amalthea, from being de-wizzed, but made no action in that direction as
far as I could see.  I'm sorry, but everyone seems to have blown every-
thing out of proportion.  Xavior _has_ not been kicked off the game, and
Amalthea and I would be quite happy if he would continue to play as
MasterHealer.  I hope everyone understands that this was not a punative
action, but merely what I felt was necessary to preserve the game and my
sanity.

	For the concerned, Amalthea has admitted that she was trying to
do to much, and will probably be retiring Mandeline from being Lady
Holder at Fort Hold, allowing someone else (as yet undetermined) to take
the position.  Also, at least 2 new wizzes will be set up in the
near future.


                                      Thank you for your time,
                                                 Shadowhawk
                                                 DragonsDawn God
Newsgroups: alt.fan.pern
From: flar@iastate.edu (Bradley M Armitage)
Subject: Re: What's this "sweet sand" stuff?
Organization: Iowa State University, Ames IA
Date: Thu, 20 Aug 1992 16:57:53 GMT

In <1992Aug20.134319.6055@uwm.edu> rick@ee.uwm.edu (Rick Miller) writes:

>At first, I thought perhaps they didn't have soap, but then I saw
>references to that too...  So what's "sweet sand"?  Is it just soap
>with sand in it?

Hmm, I was under the impression that sweet sand was their soap, I never
ran across, to my knowledge, a reference to soap, what book was that in?

>...and as long as I'm asking questions...
>Am I to understand that Robinton (Master Harper in the DragonFlight
>trilogy) was like Lessa and Brekke, in that he could hear all dragons?
>The whole telepathy business was rather confusing to keep track of.

Robinton could only hear after the dragons of Pern saved him or wouldn't
let him die when he had his heart-attack.

>Who can hear what?  Can dragons overhear conversations between other
>dragons? or can they only hear when they're being specifically bespoken?

To my knowledge, only the dragon and his/her rider can "hear" the
conversation, with the exception of those special people spoken about
above.  A gold dragon can hear and speak to any other dragon, but his
alwasy seemed to me to be an intentional act, never any evase-dropping.

>(What I'm getting at is,
>	Has anyone seen any reference in MacAffrey's books to
>	a dragon/firelizard/human 'overhearing' a 'bespeak'
>	which wasn't intended for them to hear?)

No, I've never run across this, but, I may have missed,it, again, what
books?


>Rick Miller   <rick@ee.uwm.edu> | <rick@discus.mil.wi.us>

*****************************************************************************
*       Spiritus Sanctus Anno Mundi:  Can you see me, are you near me?      *
* Can you hear me crying out for life?  Can you tell me, where's the glory? *
*     BLACK         **********************************      SABBATH         *
*******************  flar@iastate.edu (Brad Armitage)  **********************

Newsgroups: alt.fan.pern
From: quirk@pioneer.unm.edu (Gym Z. Quirk)
Subject: Re: Ahem.
Date: Wed, 19 Aug 92 23:53:33 GMT
Organization: Space and Planetary Image Facility

In article <1992Aug19.222413.15296@u.washington.edu> kaja@milton.u.washington.edu (Mission and Revenge) writes:
>I subscribed to this newsgroup because, (suprise, suprise) I thought
>it was discuss Anne McCaffrey's books. Silly me. All I see here is a bunch
>of bickering over some computer game. Alt.fan.pern doesn't mean to me
>that it's Alt.fan.pern.gaming (or whatever). If that truely is the point
>of this newsgroup, then change the name.

I guess we were about due for one of these complaints...

>Personally, I'd like to discuss the books. There are a lot of societal
>commentary in them to be worthy of rational, intelligent discussion.

Ok.  What would you like to discuss?  Remember, If you want something
done on the net, you bloody well have to do it yourself.

>--Which is a far cry from the infantile mewing going on in here that
>could've been better addressed in e-mail.

Or the bitching about people not providing what you want to read?

>kaja@milton.u.washington.edu	| As the water flows over the bridge,
>David Morgan			| As we walk on the Floodland,

[I appologize for the tone of the above, but my 6 years of experience
on the net leads me to conclude that if you want to talk about
something, bloody well talk about it.  Don't complain that people
aren't doing what you want them to do.  Start a new thread and see if
others want to join in.]


-- 
Capt. Gym Z. Quirk  (Known to some as Taki Kogoma)  quirk@pioneer.unm.edu
 I'll get a life when someone demonstrates that it would be superior to
                          what I have now...
Newsgroups: alt.fan.pern
From: emeinfel@gmuvax2.gmu.edu (...)
Subject: Re: Ahem.
Organization: Ferrous Fencing Ferrets Inc.
Date: Thu, 20 Aug 1992 12:20:08 GMT

kaja@milton.u.washington.edu (Mission and Revenge) wrote: 

>I subscribed to this newsgroup because, (suprise, suprise) I thought
>it was discuss Anne McCaffrey's books. Silly me. All I see here is a bunch
>of bickering over some computer game. Alt.fan.pern doesn't mean to me
>that it's Alt.fan.pern.gaming (or whatever). If that truely is the point
>of this newsgroup, then change the name.

I am as anal as the next person, maybe more so.  I just love to put all the
red things in the box marked "red things" and all the blue things in the
box marked "blue things".  

It seems here, that we have no box for blue things and the box for "red things"
has a fair amount of space in it.  As long as there is space and
no other place to put the blue things, the current solution works well for
the majority.

I think USENET has enough newsgroups already, without adding yet another group.
But that's just my opinion...
-- 
Edmond L. Meinfelder  // In a gust of wind the white dew 
// On the Autum grass // Scatters like a broken necklace. 
Newsgroups: alt.fan.pern
From: rick@ee.uwm.edu (Rick Miller)
Subject: What's this "sweet sand" stuff?
Organization: University of Wisconsin, Milwaukee
Date: Thu, 20 Aug 1992 13:43:19 GMT

At first, I thought perhaps they didn't have soap, but then I saw
references to that too...  So what's "sweet sand"?  Is it just soap
with sand in it?

...and as long as I'm asking questions...
Am I to understand that Robinton (Master Harper in the DragonFlight
trilogy) was like Lessa and Brekke, in that he could hear all dragons?
The whole telepathy business was rather confusing to keep track of.

Who can hear what?  Can dragons overhear conversations between other
dragons? or can they only hear when they're being specifically bespoken?
(What I'm getting at is,
	Has anyone seen any reference in MacAffrey's books to
	a dragon/firelizard/human 'overhearing' a 'bespeak'
	which wasn't intended for them to hear?)

Rick Miller   <rick@ee.uwm.edu> | <rick@discus.mil.wi.us>
Newsgroups: alt.fan.pern
From: emeinfel@gmuvax2.gmu.edu (...)
Subject: Re: What's this "sweet sand" stuff?
Organization: Ferrous Fencing Ferrets Inc.
Date: Thu, 20 Aug 1992 17:06:34 GMT

rick@ee.uwm.edu (Rick Miller) wrote: 
>At first, I thought perhaps they didn't have soap, but then I saw
>references to that too...  So what's "sweet sand"?  Is it just soap
>with sand in it?

In the first two books AM left a lot to the reader's imagination.
I guess it could be whatever you wanted.  I thought of it as a
fine volcanic silicate.

>Am I to understand that Robinton (Master Harper in the DragonFlight
>trilogy) was like Lessa and Brekke, in that he could hear all dragons?
>The whole telepathy business was rather confusing to keep track of.

You almost are. It would seem that this is the case if the dragons wish it.
Lessa and Aramina could "overhear" conversations, Robinton could not.

>Who can hear what?  Can dragons overhear conversations between other
>dragons? or can they only hear when they're being specifically bespoken?
>(What I'm getting at is,
>	Has anyone seen any reference in MacAffrey's books to
>	a dragon/firelizard/human 'overhearing' a 'bespeak'
>	which wasn't intended for them to hear?)

Yes, in _Dragon's_Dawn_.  The first riders could overhear the conversations
of the other dragons until they learned to speak with their riders on
private channels.  Aramina could hear the dragons talking to their
riders in _Renegades_of_Pern_.
-- 
Edmond L. Meinfelder  // In a gust of wind the white dew 
// On the Autum grass // Scatters like a broken necklace. 
Newsgroups: alt.fan.pern
From: Michael Scott Shappe <mss1@cornell.edu>
Subject: Re: Ahem.
X-Xxdate: Thu, 20 Aug 92 16: 39:40 GMT
Nntp-Posting-User: mss1@cornell.edu
Organization: Cornell University
X-Useragent: Nuntius v1.1.1d7
Date: Thu, 20 Aug 1992 16:42:43 GMT

In article <92Aug20.013655.26248@acs.ucalgary.ca> Joshua Bell,
jsbell@acs.ucalgary.ca writes:
>The MUSHes are a large part of Pern on the Internet. It boggles
>me, at times, that there are more Pern MU*s (I count 5 all-Pern
>MU*s, and at least 4 Pern areas on other MU*s) than Trek MU*s.
>Guess Science Romance lends itself more to playing on MUSHies
>than Treknology does. :)

I'm not all that surprised, really...Pern offers a very unique
opportunity for gaming: a situation where there are no (sentient) enemies
to fight, and the only goal is a common one--survival...kinda like life,
really :-). Anne McCaffery's setting is detailed enough to give gamers a
ready-made playground, but vague enough to allow players' creativities to
run wild and still stay within the bounds of the 'world'.

Another part of the allure of the PernMU*s, at least, the ones I've been
on (mainly NorthCon), is that players are given a great deal of creative
freedom with what they can create and how they use them. Creative people
with a minimum of programming experience can still quickly create all
sorts of tools and toys for themselves, as long as they're might have
some existance within Pern's environment as McCaffery describes it.

Ah, well...enough babble...
Uncle Mikey
(Uncamik @ NorthCon)
Newsgroups: alt.fan.pern
From: flar@iastate.edu (Bradley M Armitage)
Subject: Re: What's this "sweet sand" stuff?
Organization: Iowa State University, Ames IA
Date: Fri, 21 Aug 1992 12:44:28 GMT

In <1684A3347.AHEMP01@RICEVM1.RICE.EDU> AHEMP01@RICEVM1.RICE.EDU (Amy Hemphill) writes:

>>
>>Robinton could only hear after the dragons of Pern saved him or wouldn't
>>let him die when he had his heart-attack.
>>
>Oh, not true.  The first time Robinton hears them is (not sure which book)
>definitely before he has a heart-attack, cause I've read it, and I didn't know
>he'd had a heart attack. :)  I haven't read all of the books, but the first
>time he hears a dragon, it was either Ramoth or Mnementh (wish I had the
>books with me) and he is quite startled by it....I think it was in _Dragon
>Quest_, but I certainly wouldn't bet my last mark on that. :)
> 
Amy, I updated this post, when someone else pointed out my error, you
are absolutely correct, sorry for any misinformation!!!!
flar
> 
>>
>>*****************************************************************************
>>*       Spiritus Sanctus Anno Mundi:  Can you see me, are you near me?      *
>>* Can you hear me crying out for life?  Can you tell me, where's the glory? *
>>*     BLACK         **********************************      SABBATH         *
>>*******************  flar@iastate.edu (Brad Armitage)  **********************
>>
> 
>Amy Hemhill, aka Xylera, rider of Green Rypleth(Gee, I've been wanting to say
>                                                 that. :))
>Xylera@PernMUSH,SouconMUSH
Newsgroups: alt.fan.pern
From: 10706747@eng2.eng.monash.edu.au (ANDREW BENNETT)
Subject: Questions....
Organization: Faculty of Engineering, Monash University 
Date: Thu, 20 Aug 1992 07:31:12 GMT

Hi Pern fans...

I agree that this is not the place to discuss the Dragonsdawn MUSH....
especially since there are people that can not get on to it and don't know 
what you are talking about....

So to bring up another thread....but not Thread Fall however *smile*

In the books, there is something mentioned about a Space Station, and or a 
moon base....does anyone have any thoughts about what this has in relation 
to later books...I haven't read the latest so I don't know if this is 
included in the last book or not. I think that it was mentioned in the very 
last (in  sequence) of her books...

Anyway lets hear some more about her books rather than the MUSH....

Andrew Bennett.
+-----------------------------------------------------------------------+
|  I can be contacted at the following  |  Reallity is what people      |
|  addresses...                         |  perceive it to be.           |
|  The opinions expressed are entirely  |                               |
|  my own.                              |  Sanity is what the majority  |
|  e-mail me at:                        |  of people call Reallity.     |
|  kryndal@yoyo.cc.monash.edu.au        |                               |
|  roabennett@halls1.cc.monash.edu au   | Insanity is what a Minority   |
|  10706747@eng2.eng.monash.edu.au      | view as the Truth.            |
|                                       |                    Anonymous  |
+-----------------------------------------------------------------------+
From: eog@mace.cc.purdue.edu (Vicki Finkenstadt)
Newsgroups: alt.fan.pern
Subject: Green rising on DragonsFire
Keywords: pern, mating flight, dragonsfire muse
Date: 17 Aug 92 15:13:49 GMT
Distribution: w

<<<<<Suddenly, a great Gold Dragon appears in the sky and wings down>>>>>
<<<<<The vibrant Gold dragon bugles to call attention to the announcement>>>>>
<<<<<Philemon unrolls the parchment with a flair>>>>>

My Lords and Ladies, 
Crafters, Holders, and Weyrfolk,

I bring you great news from Fort Weyr on DragonsFire.

C'lyth, starcrafter and dragonrider,
His Green Kaisith rises to mate.

All peoples are welcome for this event...
Interested riders should contact C'lyth this week, ASAP.

The date and time shall be set upon Kaisith's pleasure.

<<<<<Rustle of paper as the parchment is rolled up>>>>>
<<<<<Much Dragon rumbling, whistling, and bugling>>>>>
<<<<<Gold Magdaleth takes wing>>>>>
<<<<<A cold breath of air washes over you as the Gold dragon vanishes between.>>

Newsgroups: alt.fan.pern
From: russ@math.okstate.edu (Russ "Random" Smith)
Subject: Ahem.
Organization: Aggie? What precisely is an Aggie?
Date: Wed, 19 Aug 1992 01:38:11 GMT

Allow me to be first in expressing my utter failure to understand why
alt.fan.pern should be even vaguely interested in the politicking back and
forth between DragonsDawn wizards (or former wizards, as the case may be),
except perhaps for amusement, which I typically find under rec.humor.*.

Please.  Let it end here.  This is not the forum for this, if indeed there
is a forum for a personal argument over thousands of machines.

-- 
Russ "Random" Smith
+----===Comedy!  Sudden, violent comedy!===-----------russ@okstate.edu--------+
|  Godfather of the Random Gang; Diplomat of the Brotherhood of Evil MUDders  |
+-----------------------------------------------------------------------------+
From: quirk@pioneer.unm.edu (Gym Z. Quirk)
Newsgroups: alt.fan.pern
Subject: Re: What's this "sweet sand" stuff?
Date: 21 Aug 92 02:20:48 GMT
Organization: Space and Planetary Image Facility

In article <1992Aug20.134319.6055@uwm.edu> rick@ee.uwm.edu (Rick Miller) writes:
>At first, I thought perhaps they didn't have soap, but then I saw
>references to that too...  So what's "sweet sand"?  Is it just soap
>with sand in it?

According to the DLG, 'sweetsand' is "...a naturally foaming fine
sand..." (p. 80)  Actual soap as we know it is a rare product, since it
requires Lye to manufacture, and that is created by burning hardwoods.
(The pernese have much better things to do with their hardwoods than
just burning it. ;-)

>...and as long as I'm asking questions...
>Am I to understand that Robinton (Master Harper in the DragonFlight
>trilogy) was like Lessa and Brekke, in that he could hear all dragons?
>The whole telepathy business was rather confusing to keep track of.

Robinton was a rare individual to whom various dragons would 'talk' to
every now and then.  He could not ordinarily 'listen in' on draconic
conversations.

>Rick Miller   <rick@ee.uwm.edu> | <rick@discus.mil.wi.us>

-- 
Capt. Gym Z. Quirk  (Known to some as Taki Kogoma)  quirk@pioneer.unm.edu
 I'll get a life when someone demonstrates that it would be superior to
                          what I have now...
Newsgroups: alt.fan.pern
From: cb317@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Stephanie J. Kessler)
Subject: Correction
Organization: Case Western Reserve University, Cleveland, Ohio, (USA)
Date: Fri, 21 Aug 92 20:57:38 GMT


The space station is in Dragon's Dawn, not The Renegades of Pern.
Its been so long since I have had time to read my books, I got
the order mixed up for awhile there.  Dragon's Dawn is the book
about the original colonists (of course)...
-- 
The United States is a nation of laws:  badly written and
randomly enforced.     Frank Zappa

cb317 @ cleveland.Freenet.Edu
Newsgroups: alt.fan.pern