HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: cbrand@cac.washington.edu (Carol Brand)
Newsgroups: rec.pets.dogs
Subject: Re: Need help writing Nasty Letter
Date: 15 Aug 92 01:04:36 GMT
Organization: UW Networks and Distributed Computing

In article <1992Aug14.212728.2773@speedy.aero.org> amiranda@ariel.aero.org (Ann Miranda) writes:
>
>If you had read my post carefully, you would have seen that I said "one
>of the MANY reasons ..." we got the puppy was for breeding our male. 
>We didn't get her JUST because our "horney" male hasnt' had "sex"
>in two years. Our male happens to be a very beautiful, intelligent, 
>healthy, and well-tempered dog, who would be quite suitable for 
>breeding.  We do plan to breed him eventually, although we don't
>intend to be backyard breeders.
>
>And, NO you're not a vet.  Our puppy's mange came from the  mother
>at the breeders.  Whether I got the puppy to the right vet on time
>is irrelevant to the fact that she has mange.  A little dab
>of cream isn't going to make the mange disappear.  
>


Actually, whether or not you got your bitch to the vet on time
probably did make a difference! Had you not let the mange spread the
way you did, you might not now have to go through the hassle of vet
suppervised baths. 

Again I will say, *MY* bitch also came home from the breeders with
mange (which she also picked up from her dam), but because we caught it
early, a special medicated cream was all the treatment necessary.

Finally, your dog may be a very special companion to you, but "quite
suitable" for breeding just isn't good enough.  Does he hold a
champion title in conformation?  Does he have his CD or hunting title?
Does he come from a rare or important line that has produced
consistently high quality dogs in the past? These are some reasons you
might want to breed him.  Here in Seattle alone, tens of thousands of
dogs are put to sleep each year; many of them AKC registered.  The
world does not need more average dogs. 

I know how you feel.  I my bitch is great too!  Super temperment. 
Great at obedience.  Fabulous head!  But... bad tail :^(  It's too
passive for a terrier.  Would I breed her?  NO WAY!!!

Anyway... why not just call the breeder and tell him or her that the
bitch has mange.  I think the other posters are right, though.  The
breeder probably will not care. 

-Carol
& Trixie (the now mangeless and forever puppyless wonder!)
From: tittle@ics.uci.edu (Cindy Tittle Moore)
Subject: Enviromental and Genetic Factors on HD (was Re: Scaredy cat dog)
Newsgroups: rec.pets.dogs
Reply-To: tittle@ics.uci.edu (Cindy Tittle Moore)
Organization: ICS Dept., UC Irvine
Date: 18 Aug 92 23:30:14 GMT

In <46575@shamash.cdc.com> smp@aquarius1.Berkeley.EDU (Susan M Painter) writes:

>I am bothered by some breeders who seem to believe that even though it is
>hereditary, since environmental factors can minimize hip displaysia, they
>don't seem to bother testing for it and aren't breeding only those dogs that
>have solid hips.

Agreed!  However, *if* a dog already has HD, it is useful to know that
some enviromental factors can be used to help the dog be more
comfortable.  However, whether or not that dog then displays overt
symptoms, it should not be bred.

>I am greatly concerned with my favorite breed, Bernese
>Mountain Dogs, because many breeders are not testing for solid hips.  One
>person wrote in to state that their 11-month old Berner was starting
>it's stud career.  At 11-MONTHS OLD!! Can they be sure the hips are solid?
>OFA does not test until two years.

Correction: OFA will not *certify* (that is, issue an official
certification of the dog's hip status) until 2 years of age.  They
will grade the x-rays of any dog at any age.  Preliminary x-rays can
tell you if you're likely to have problems or not.

Eleven months does sound a bit young, though.  It's not nearly enough
time to get a CH (unless he's really hot stuff), or CD, or anything
else to provide an indication of his suitability in other areas to be
bred.

>I was able to get my dog from a breeder who was very concerned about
>healthy dogs, including hips.  My dog's mother had three litters and
>there was not a bad hip in the bunch.  But I am worried that too many
>breeders are not concerned with hips and it will be very difficult to
>find any Berners with good hips.  Why the rush to breed an 11-month
>old dog?  Why not test for hips before breeding?  Am I missing
>something when I believe that poor hips are not just a gamble but
>careful breeding can produce healthy dogs with good hips.

It is a little more complex than that.  If you concentrate that much
on the hips, you may find yourself with PRA problems or heart
problems, or ... etc ...  The trick is to minimize everything that you
can.  Focusing on any particular problem can just mean that another
problem crops right up.  A very good study (written in Swedish,
unfortunately), tried to breed just for great hips and wound up with
mental problems.  They're now breeding for great hips and no mental
problems (and succeeding, though it's taking more generations (not
surprising) to acheive their goal).

I'm not saying that the breeder you're talking about is "right," though.
Just pointing out a few things.  I share your concern...

--Cindy
--
Cindy Tittle Moore -- Terrell's Chocolate Deduction (chocolate labrador bitch)

The rec.pets.dogs FAQ -- all eight parts -- is available via ftp to
pit-manager.mit.edu under pub/usenet/news.answers/dogs-faq/*.  There
is a mail server, email me for details.
Newsgroups: rec.pets.dogs
From: vln@icpsr.umich.edu (Victoria Neff)
Subject: Re: Floppy-eared G. Shep Puppy
Organization: Inter-University Consortium for Political and Social Research
Date: Thu, 20 Aug 1992 16:29:50 GMT

In article <BtAAFE.41M@usenet.ucs.indiana.edu> prange@silver.ucs.indiana.edu (Henry Prange) writes:
>I have a four-month old puppy with one ear up and the other decidedly not.
>I would appreciate advice on the liklihood it will stand on its own, 
>whether it should be taped, if so can I do it myself, etc.?
>
>Thanks.
>

I don't know about shepherds, but Corgi ears are taped if not up by about 10
weeks.  I'd bet it won't go up on its own.  I'm sure you can tape it, but
I don't know enough to give you instructions.  Can you ask your breeder?

Good luck!
From: kika.bbs@cybernet.cse.fau.edu
Newsgroups: rec.pets.dogs
Subject: Muzzle Training?
Date: 17 Aug 92 12:55:43 GMT
Organization: Florida Atlantic University, Boca Raton

After losing 3 remote controls, 1 CD, 1.5 photo albums, 6 text
books, several plants, atleast a dozen magazines, and a variety
of other objects around the house, I decided to muzzle our
7 month old black lab while we are away for *any* period of
time.   My question is... can dogs *learn* from having a muzzle?
I'm hoping that after a few months of learning that he cannot
chew while left alone, that eventually we can remove the 
muzzle and he'd act as though he still had one on..  Is this
not realistic?
Newsgroups: rec.pets.dogs
From: Stacey Curtis <sec@csc.canberra.edu.au>
Subject: Re: convincing people to go to responsible breeders
Organization: University Of Canberra
X-Useragent: Nuntius v1.1
Date: Tue, 18 Aug 92 01:54:20 GMT

In article <16mn5nINNfls@matt.ksu.ksu.edu> Beth Schwindt,
bets@matt.ksu.ksu.edu writes:
>[stuff deleted] She got lists of people to buy from, from friends who
>bought from them.  She called every last one, wanting to see a silver
>miniature male puppy.  Every last place, when hearing she wanted a pet
>instead of a show dog, hung up on her.  She ended up with Josephine, a
>black miniature that had been weaned early and was seriously ill from the
>day she arrived, buying her from a pet store.

We have just had our first litter of Alaskan Malamutes and have had to
knock back people from buying the pick of the litter, a Black and White
dog, who only want to own him as a pet.  I don't know whether silver
miniture's are exceptionally rare or what the story is regarding this
breed but if they are rare then surely it can be understood that these
breeders are proud of their litter and want them to be in the show ring. 
We have offered other dogs in place of our pick of litter but we're
knocked back.  It's our right as breeders to knock back pet-buyers of
obvious show-quality dogs just as it's the buyers right to knock back our
pet-only quality dogs.  You get what you are prepared to pay for.

Just my $0.02 worth.

Stacey
From: krieger@egnext3.SLAC.Stanford.EDU (Karen Krieger)
Newsgroups: rec.pets.dogs
Subject: Re: FREE German Shep Puppy
Date: 14 Aug 92 20:50:55 GMT
Distribution: usa

> Excuse my ignorance, but what are fallen pasterns?
> Thanks,
> Doug

FALLEN PASTERNS ARE WHEN THE PART OF THE FOOT FROM THE "WRIST" TO THE FOOT  
ARE TOUCHING THE GROUND.
From: srb@atmosmips.jpl.nasa.gov (Susan Beutelschies)
Newsgroups: rec.pets.dogs
Subject: Re:  LIFE magazine and Puppy Mills
Date: 14 Aug 92 17:35:53 GMT
Reply-To: srb@atmosmips.jpl.nasa.gov (Susan Beutelschies)
Organization: Image Analysis Systems Group, JPL

I won't even buy supplies from a pet store that sells pets.

Susan Beutelschies
srb@atmosmips.jpl.nasa.gov
From: terry@eece.ksu.edu (Terry Hull)
Newsgroups: rec.pets.dogs
Subject: Re: looking for new dog suggestions
Date: 14 Aug 1992 17:19:04 GMT
Organization: Kansas State University
NNTP-Posting-Host: ralph.eece.ksu.edu

srb@atmosmips.Berkeley.EDU (Susan Beutelschies) writes:

>Someone pointed out recently an article in Life magazine regarding puppy
>mills.   I read the article last night (very upsetting, I might say).  According
>to the article, puppy mills didn't come in to existence until the 60's or 70's
>(I forget which).  Long after the run of Rin Tin Tin.

I think the term "puppy mill" was being used for indiscriminate
breeding of dogs for money, rather than specifically the unsanitary,
cruel "puppy farms" that we see today in the US.

I really think what needs to be restored in our breeds is one key
word, "BALANCE."  I'm all for working ability in our working dogs, but
if competition becomes the only goal, we can end up with dogs that are
not safe in a home.  That is not my idea of a good working dog.  Some 
field trial people end up with dogs that are so hyper they are
unlivable.  Sure they can hunt, but they aren't good companions.  On
the other hand, I know a lady who breeds GSPs and has dogs that can
hunt proficiently and can live in the house as pets.  They also do a
little obedience and conformation.  That, to me is a balance. 

My Rottweiler puppy, Wiz, came from a breeder who is really concerned
about the breed.  On one hand, she is concerned that some bloodlines
are loosing their working ability.  On the other hand, she is worried
about them getting too sharp.  She has a scar on her neck to prove
that one particular Sch III male Rott is too sharp, too suspicious.
She was bitten for no reason at all while standing on the porch of the
dog's owner. 

If any group of people in a breed close their eyes to any other group of
characteristics in a dog, bad things happen.  Conformation people need
to keep an eye out for working ability.  Working people need to watch
out for conformation, and companion oriented people need to watch both
groups to get dogs suited for their purpose.  There will be dogs out
of hunting litters that make wonderful companions and terrible
hunters.  There will be dogs out of conformation litters that will
have good working ability.  All of this needs to be kept in BALANCE.
Unfortunately in the canine world today, there is little balance to be
found.  ;-(.  
--
Terry Hull  -  terry@eece.ksu.edu
Department of Electrical and Computer Engineering, Kansas State University
From: mlhb@mammoth.dr.att.com (Sky Warrior)
Newsgroups: rec.pets.dogs
Subject: Re: How to find breeders of non-AKC dog?
Keywords: breeders locating
Date: 12 Aug 92 16:45:34 GMT


My guess would be to first contact UKC.  Many non-AKC registrable dogs are
registered through UKC.  Other possibilities would be to contact rare breed clubs
in your area.  Ask your vet or local trainer for address and phone number.

Good Luck
Sky Warrior
-- 
-----------------------------                                              
SKY WARRIOR aka MLH Bonham  | "Good tea.  Nice House." -- Lt. Worf
mammoth!mlhb@druhi.att.com  |----------------------------------------------
mlhb@drutx.ATT.COM          | SKY WARRIOR RACING KENNELS - Coming to an
                            | Iditarod near you!
-----------------------------
From: tittle@ics.uci.edu (Cindy Tittle Moore)
Subject: Re: help with retriever problem (with question)
Newsgroups: rec.pets.dogs
Reply-To: tittle@ics.uci.edu (Cindy Tittle Moore)
Organization: ICS Dept., UC Irvine
Date: 21 Aug 92 17:04:11 GMT

In <172vi2INNrri@moe.ksu.ksu.edu> terry@eece.ksu.edu (Terry Hull) writes:
>How do the rest of you walk 3 or more dogs at the
>same time?

One at a time!

Then again, these dogs (NOT mine) are not properly trained.  You can't
do it if they all lunge on the leash at the same time and their
combined weight is about 2.5 times yours...

--Cindy


--
Cindy Tittle Moore -- Terrell's Chocolate Deduction (chocolate labrador bitch)

The rec.pets.dogs FAQ -- all eight parts -- is available via ftp to
pit-manager.mit.edu under pub/usenet/news.answers/dogs-faq/*.  There
is a mail server, email me for details.
From: pwei@sdcc3.ucsd.edu (Paul Wei)
Newsgroups: rec.pets.dogs
Subject: rescue organization for huskies?
Date: 21 Aug 92 00:29:12 GMT


Hi,

Does anyone know if there is a rescue organization for huskies in
Anaheim or anywhere near Anaheim, Ca?  I have a friend who is
interested in getting a husky.  Thanks in advance.
From: terry@eece.ksu.edu (Terry Hull)
Newsgroups: rec.pets.dogs
Subject: Re: LIFE magazine and Puppy Mills
Date: 14 Aug 92 17:34:04 GMT
Article-I.D.: moe.16gqqcINNhf4
Organization: Kansas State University
NNTP-Posting-Host: ralph.eece.ksu.edu

Kimberly Laird <U30993@uicvm.uic.edu> writes:

>A very good indicator of whether the store buys from
>puppy mills is if their papers all indicate that the
>pups came from one place...  e.g. Yorkies, Rotts,
>Lhasas, Cockers all have the same breeder/address on
>their papers.  Another indication is if the puppies
>come from local areas, rather than from hundreds
>of miles away.

>I'm sure others on this list will have advice on
>this topic...

No commercial puppy seller sells dogs from reputable breeders, because
reputable breeders will not sell to a reseller.  It is that simple.
Reputable breeders interview you like you are adopting their child,
not like you are buying a piece of property.  These breeders will not
trust this task to anyone else, especially not a commissioned salesman.
--
Terry Hull  -  terry@eece.ksu.edu
Department of Electrical and Computer Engineering, Kansas State University
Newsgroups: rec.pets.dogs
From: liza@pangea.Stanford.EDU (Liza Miller)
Subject: Re: Hunting ability in Labradors
Organization: Stanford Univ. Earth Sciences
Date: Tue, 18 Aug 1992 20:02:10 GMT

Bravo, Cindy, thank you for summarizing this complicated
conversation.  I, for one, think that you did a good job
of explaining the different viewpoints and I fully agree
that being overly critical of the "lack of hunting ability"
in labs has NOTHING to do with solving the problems in
Labs today.

Be productive, not destructive!


--
Liza Lee Miller         My dogs are labradorable!     liza@pangea.stanford.edu
Cibola Labradors            Field * Show * Fun                    415/326-5309
Cibola's Misty Mountain Hop--Hopper                   Mistypoint Kashmir--Kash
Talimar All-Pro At Delby--Niner          Campbellcroft Cibola Rosette -- Rosie
Newsgroups: rec.pets.dogs
From: kte@INEL.GOV (Kathryn L Cook)
Subject: Apology to Alice
Reply-To: kte@INEL.GOV (Kathryn L Cook)
Organization: Idaho National Engineering Lab
Date: Wed, 12 Aug 92 21:26:56 GMT


Alice,

Sorry that I offended you.  When I said, "the lady here . . .", I was *not*
talking about you, I was talking about a lady I know here in Idaho Falls.
I meant that she *not* you bragged about leaving her puppy for excessive
periods of time and punished it for going potty.

I can see how you miss read it as I didn't make it very clear that "here"
was "here" in town not "here" on the net.  Also the 8 hours I referred to
was I believe in response to something Shalene had written on the subject.

To the rest of you r.p.d folks, I'm sorry if I miss led you, I do not know
Alice or her puppy and cannot say how she is raising and training it. The
advice I had for Alice (good or bad) was emailed directly to her. And my post
to the net really was not meant to refer to her (should have remembered
to change the subject line). Next time I'll try to be more careful about
how I word things.

       Not sorry for my opinion or what I meant to say, Just VERY sorry that
       that I didn't word it a little better and that I upset Alice. Alice
       I am sincerely sorry to have offended you and I *do* wish you and
       your Boxer all the best.  Keep us posted, I for one am interested.

                      -kayti
       
========== long legal disclaimer follows, press n to skip ===========

Neither the United States Government or the Idaho National Engineering
Laboratory or any of their employees, makes any warranty, whatsoever,
implied, or assumes any legal liability or responsibility regarding any
information, disclosed, or represents that its use would not infringe
privately owned rights.  No specific reference constitutes or implies
endorsement, recommendation, or favoring by the United States
Government or the Idaho National Engineering Laboratory.  The views and
opinions expressed herein do not necessarily reflect those of the
United States Government or the Idaho National Engineering Laboratory,
and shall not be used for advertising or product endorsement purposes.
From: kathleen.brewer@cutting.hou.tx.us (Kathleen Brewer) 
Newsgroups: rec.pets.dogs
Subject: MALAMUTE PUPPY WANTED
Date: 18 Aug 92 07:35:00 GMT
Distribution: world
Organization: The Cutting Edge - Houston, TX - 713-466-1525
Reply-To: kathleen.brewer@cutting.hou.tx.us (Kathleen Brewer) 

TO: mmf@evolving.com (Mark Frazier)


MF>Does anyone know where I could get a Malumute puppy w/o papers for a similar
MF>ce?
MF>Or are Mals rare enough that this is not feasible?

Are you interested in getting a rescued dog? I have a friend who is very
active in Malmute Rescue. If you are interested let me know where you
are located and I will call Susan and see if there is a group in your
area. There is usually a fee involved, that covers the expenses of the
dog.

Kathleen.Brewer@cutting.hou.tx.us
---
 . OLX 2.1 . Unable to locate Coffee -- Operator Halted!
From: mjohnson@stake.DaytonOH.NCR.COM (Marget Johnson)
Newsgroups: rec.pets.dogs
Subject: Re: building a fenced in area (was looking for new dog suggestions)
Date: 21 Aug 92 13:56:41 GMT
Reply-To: mjohnson@stake.DaytonOH.NCR.COM (Marget Johnson)
Organization: Stakeholder Relations, NCR Corp in Dayton,OH

In article <rasmussenc.23.0@vaxb.gbus.virginia.edu>
rasmussenc@vaxb.gbus.virginia.edu writes:
>So, to get to the reason for this post, I was wondering if any of you know 
>of any good sources or have any recommendations for building a sort of pen/
>run for our little Dobe.  Size, shape, materials, etc.   

Chris: For our Newf(s), we laid railroad ties on level ground, two ties
high, in a rectangle to outline the desired pen size (20' x 8' works well for
one or two Newfs). Filled-in the rectangle with washed river gravel (pea
gravel). You can lay plastic sheeting down first (perforate to ensure
drainage) or spray with Round-up to kill the vegetation. Buy modular
chain-link fence panels  6' high from a local fence builder or order
from Mason Modular Kennel Systems in Leesburg, OH. Their chain link panels are
beautifully crafted and will last many lifetimes...of course, very expensive,
too. But any good quality fence panel will last for 10-15 years. 
Set up the fence panels on top of the railroad ties and bolt together. If you
set up the run abutting your house, garage or existing wood fence, fasten one
end of the run to the building or fence posts to add stability. If your dog is
a jumper, you can add a cover to the run, either out of chain-link or lighter
weight woven wire.
Pea gravel is the best surface for dogs: drains well, easy to "scoop", easy on
their pads, builds up legs and feet, and easy to replenish. Concrete, dirt and
grass are all unsuitable long-term surfaces for confining dogs (IMHO)

You should be able to install the above run for under $350 (less if you can
find used chain-link run panels. Check the Trading Post/PennySaver newspapers
under PET SUPPLIES)
*************************************
Marget Johnson

--
From: dave@isye.gatech.edu (Dave Thurman)
Newsgroups: rec.pets.dogs
Subject: Re: Training Golden Retreiver Puppy
Date: 13 Aug 92 17:19:10 GMT

joker@triton.unm.edu (The Evil Tou-Fu) writes:


>	I have some questions about training my puppy, she is a very active
>dog, she likes to run around and meet strangers if she is off the leash, so
>I have to put a leash on her when going to parks and playing with her, 
>because she is active, a lot of times she will just ignore my commands such
>as sit or come. How do I properly train her? Will goldens settle down as
>they get older? If so how old?

Rather than post all sorts of messages about what's worked for us, 
I would recommend several really good books on dog training.  The
important thing is that YOU have to take the time to train her.  30
minutes a day now is very little time when you consider the future 
problems you are alleviating.

As for the books, these are the ones I personally recommend:

(1) Mother Knows Best, The Natural Way to Train Your Dog

(2) Play Training Your Dog

Also, the Monks of Skete book is very good.  And decent pet supply
store will probably have these or be able to get them.

-dave
--
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
Dave Thurman			Center for Human-Machine Systems Research
(404) 894-4318			School of Industrial and Systems Engineering
dave@chmsr.gatech.edu		Georgia Institute of Technology	
Newsgroups: rec.pets.dogs
From: X005CB@tamvm1.tamu.edu (Chris Barnes)
Subject: Re: looking for new dog suggestions
Organization: Texas A&M University
Date: Mon, 17 Aug 1992 15:36:31 GMT

In article <16gpu8INNhe8@moe.ksu.ksu.edu>
    terry@eece.ksu.edu (Terry Hull) writes:
 
>I really think what needs to be restored in our breeds is one key
>word, "BALANCE."
 
I agree.  But my question is how do we get that back into balance (and
IMHO, many of the sporting breeeds are out of balance towards
confirmation and "pet-ification").
 
>I'm all for working ability in our working dogs, but
>if competition becomes the only goal, we can end up with dogs that are
>not safe in a home.  That is not my idea of a good working dog.  Some
>field trial people end up with dogs that are so hyper they are
>unlivable.  Sure they can hunt, but they aren't good companions.
 
Actually, although they might win Field Trials and pass Hunting Tests,
they aren't what I would call a good hunting dog.  But that is really a
problem with judge selection at the events (something that I can
influance in my own little way since I'm judging another Hunting Test
early in October).
 
      ----------------------------------------------
Chris Barnes            |
x005cb@tamvm1.tamu.edu  |  Only 15 more days until the start of
(409) 846-3273 (home)   |           hunting season (in Texas)
(409) 845-8454 (work)   |
From: drg@biomath.mda.uth.tmc.edu (David Gutierrez)
Newsgroups: rec.pets.dogs
Subject: Re: Floppy-eared G. Shep Puppy
Date: 20 Aug 1992 21:08:04 GMT
Organization: Univ. Texas M.D. Anderson Cancer Center

In article <BtAAFE.41M@usenet.ucs.indiana.edu> prange@silver.ucs.indiana.edu
(Henry Prange) writes:
>I have a four-month old puppy with one ear up and the other decidedly not.
>I would appreciate advice on the liklihood it will stand on its own, 
>whether it should be taped, if so can I do it myself, etc.?

Leave 'em alone. Your pup is doing a very slow semaphore. Wurzi's ears took
turns standing up before they both decided to stay up. The process took a few
weeks and was hilarious for us - she looked so silly with one ear up and one
ear down (and then the other ear up and the first one down...).

David Gutierrez
drg@biomath.mda.uth.tmc.edu

"Only fools are positive." - Moe Howard