From: d89-gsk@nada.kth.se (Gani Skepi)
Subject: Re: Christianity Revealed (???) # 1
Organization: Royal Institute of Technology, Stockholm, Sweden
Date: Tue, 26 Jan 1993 19:47:31 GMT

In article <1jjge0INNq0l@usenet.INS.CWRU.Edu>, cd079@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Frank A. Decenso, Jr.) writes:
|> 
|> Gani,
|> 
|> I'd love to talk to you about the Inspiration of Scripture, etc. Maybe in the
|> future. You want to see Jesus claiming to be God Almighty?
|> 

Yes, Jesus (pbuh) while walking around on this earth...
Frank, I know it is tough... :-).....

|>                   Jesus Is The Almighty God
|>  
|> Did Jesus ever claim to be Almighty God?
|> Let's examine the Word of God.
|>  
[alot of verses and explanations to these verses from the book of 
Revelation deleted]

The first problem which arise when you qoute the book of Rev, is 
that it wasn't written during the lifetime of Jesus (pbuh) but 
very long time after and it has nothing to do with the time when 
he was still walking around on this earth but is rather a vision 
written down by someone (the worlds longest sentence?). This some-
one is claimed to be John the disciple of Jesus (pbuh) by some but
another guy by others (actually another John if I remember correctly).

Even if we don't get into this disscusion qouting the book of Rev.
doesn't fulfill what I wanted you to bring me, i.e. a simple statement
by Jesus (pbuh) while he was walking around on this earth saying some-
thing like: I am God, worship me.

So I am asking for a simple and clear statement from prophet Jesus (pbuh)
were he claims this thing. If he was God wouldn't he have said that??
I can't understand how a person can believe something concerning a person
when s/he isn't recorded to have claimed it him/herself.

|>  
|> Who is pictured in the NT as the "Son of Man"? Jesus, 80 times.

:-)....

(Job 25:4-6)" How then can Man be justified with God? How can he 
be clean that is *BORN OF A WOMAN*? When even the moon is not bright 
and the stars impure (dim) in His sight. How much less is Man, who 
is but a maggot, and the *SON OF MAN*, who is only a *WORM*."

So the whole mankind is like small maggots. But who is the Son of Man?
Well, 83 times Jesus (pbuh) is called the Son of Man and only 13 times 
he is called the Son of God.

So *SEVENTY* more times Jesus (pbuh) is called the Son of Man and accord-
ing to your own statement above he seems to be him. So how much is Jesus 
(pbuh) worth?

Well according to this book (i.e the Bible) he is worth as much as a
*WORM*. So what are you worshipping Frank????

So if you *TRULY* believe the Bible to be the *TRUE* words of God and God 
is telling you that Jesus (pbuh) is worth as much as a worm, then why are
you worshipping a worm when you can worship God, the *ONLY* one?


|> [verses from Isaiah and Rev deleted]

Still not the words spoken by Jesus (pbuh) while he was walking around here
on Earth.


|>  [changed the place of some verses to be able to comment on them
|> directly ]
|> MAT 23:39 "for I say to you, you shall see Me no more till you say,
|> 'Blessed is He who comes in the name of the LORD!'" MAT 24:42 "Watch
|> therefore, for you do not know what hour your Lord is coming.
|> MAR 11:9 Then those who went before and those who followed cried out,
|> saying: "Hosanna! 'Blessed is He who comes in the name of the LORD!'
|> MAR 11:10 Blessed is the kingdom of our father David That comes in the
|> name of the Lord! Hosanna in the highest!"

Every Prophet of God came in the name of the Lord.

|> MAT 26:64 Jesus said to him, "It is as you said.  Nevertheless, I say to
|> you, *hereafter* you will see the Son of Man sitting at the right hand of
|> the Power, and coming on the clouds of heaven."
|> MAR 14:62 Jesus said, "I am. And you will see the Son of Man sitting at
|> the right hand of the Power, and coming with the clouds of heaven."

There has to be some problems with this verse as no Jew or anyone else
has ever seen Jesus (pbuh) sitting at the right hand of the Power. The
word hereafter seems to imply that after this it would happen but it 
hasn't happened *yet*..... So there seems to be a small error here as the 
Jews or anybody else have never seen Christ coming in the clouds of heaven 
before or after his death.

|> [vereses from 1Cor, 1 Th, James and Rev. deleted]

Does still not show what I asked for........

|>  
|> We have overwhelming Scriptural evidence stating that Jesus is the One
|> Who is coming, and 2 passages in Revelation stating that it is Lord God
|> Almighty Who is coming.
|>  
|> It should be clear to the unbiased observer that Jesus Christ is the LORD
|> God Almighty!

You have qouted alot of verses but still not what I asked for. One verse 
were Jesus (pbuh) while walking around on this world gives a simple state-
ment which doesn't need any comments. 

If you Frank can worship someone who himself never claims clearily to be 
God or divine, then the only thing I can say to you is:

In the name of God, Most Gracious, Most Merciful
(Sura Kafirun (59)):
1 Say: O ye that reject Faith!
2 I worship not that which ye worship;
3 Nor will ye worship that which I worship;
4 And I will not worship that which ye have been wont to worship,
5 Nor will ye worship that which I worship
6 To you be your way and to me mine.

In the name of God, Most Gracious, Most Merciful
(10:104)"Say:`O ye men! if ye are in doubt as to my religion,(behold) 
I worship not what ye worship, other than Allah! But I worship Allah- 
who will take your souls (at death): I am commanded to be (in the 
ranks) of the Believers."
 
|> 
|> Let's look at a few others:
|> John 8:58 "...before Abraham was, I am."
|> [We'll have fun with this one!]

:-).. Propably....

|> 
|> Matthew 18:20 "For where two or three are gathered together in My name, I
|> am there in the midst of them."
|> I thought only God was omnipresent!

How can a human like Jesus (pbuh) be in the midst of people who are gath-
ered in his name???

Well, Moses (pbuh) is here with us today in his teachings. Jesus (pbuh) 
is also here with us in his teachings and Muhammed (pbuh) is also here 
with us in his teachings today (see also Luke 16:31.. Moses and the proph-
ets are still alive and with us here today in their teachings...). So every-
time someone is "gathered in the name" of one of these prophets of God and 
as such disscus his teachings and him, he will be there. So you shouldn't
take it literally.

|> LORD bless!
|> Frank
|> -- 

May the Lord of Abraham bless you too....

Peace
Gani Skepi

Xref: sparky talk.religion.misc:27516 talk.origins:16675