From: traub@rtf.bt.co.uk (Michael Traub)
Newsgroups: rec.food.veg
Subject: Re: A suggestion for rec.food.recipies
Date: 10 Apr 92 10:01:04 GMT
Organization: BT Customer Systems, Brighton, UK

In article <1992Apr10.020357.5985@msuinfo.cl.msu.edu> Kamchatka Charlie writes:
>Michael Traub writes:
>> Kamchatka Charlie writes:
>>>     And another idea:  try being more tolerant of other people's habits. Not
>>>everyone wants or is able to quit eating meat; a simple allowance for that fact
>>>might just make this group more tolerable for the nonvegans and nonfruitarians
>>>amongst you.
>>
>>I  really  wonder  why  we  keep  getting  this  sort  of  thing. This is a
>>newsgroup  for  *vegetarians*.  If  meat eaters want to read it fine, its a
>>free  net,  but  please  remember  if  we consider meat eating intolerable,
>>that's *our* problem.
>     I have no problem with considering meat eating intolerable.  It's the
>constantly recurring idea that MILK is intolerable.  Why is it that vegetarians
>feel the need to segregate themselves in an isolative world and constantly push
>up their relative self-esteem by constantly flaming those who happen to eat
>meat?
>
Make up your mind, is it milk or meat you have the problem with. If it's milk
then why don't you recommend a rec.food.vegan? If its meat why don't you go
somewhere else?

>>We  don't  need  you to tell us we are intolerant, we know we are, and most
>>of us are quite happy being intolerant.
>     Also cliquish, provencial, and fossilized as well.
>
And loving it.

>>If  I  wanted  to  be a tolerant liberal, I would post to rec.food.recipes,
>>wouldn't I?
>     True.  This may explain why this newsgroup is well known for constant
>flame wars over the acceptability of milk/grains/vegetables in diet; people who
>have SO's (or family members) who eat meat, and people who give suggestions as
>to ways to expand the ranks of vegetarians/vegans/fruitarians.  Tell me; do you
>wish vegetarianism to be considered a religious cult?
>     NO?  I DIDN'T THINK SO.

It already is, and I have no desire to change the minds of the ignorant.

>     Let me give you a scenario:  Rec.food.veg groupies start posting like
>crazy to rec.food.recipies.  r.f.r readers, noticing a major influx of
>OVO/LACTO, LACTO, and VEGAN titles in r.f.r, start trying out these recipies. 
>Said r.f.r readers find out that vegetarian food tastes good.  Then they
>discover r.f.v, and find out there's a whole world of people who have done away
>with meat (or more).  They seek support and information about vegetarianism and
>related issues.  HOARDS OF THEM BECOME VEGETARIANS BY CHOICE.  In response,
>vegetarian resturaunts open like wildfire.  Previously sympathetic meateaters
>become vegetarians thanks to the expansion of choices in their diet.  The USA
>(world?) suddenly rediscovers kindness, mercy, and joy.

     Let me give you a scenario:  Rec.food.veg groupies start posting like
crazy to rec.food.recipies.  r.f.r readers, noticing a major influx of
OVO/LACTO, LACTO, and VEGAN titles in r.f.r, start complaining about
the number of these recipies. They vent their anger on the hapless
r.f.v readers who are already fed up to their back teeth with
meat eaters coming into this group and telling them how to lead their
lives.

Anyway no one is stopping you from posting to rec.food.recipes. I haven't
seen any copyrights on any of the recipes posted here, so snarf them all
if you wish and post them to rec.food.recipes. If you think this will
be a worthwhile venture, good for you, I wish you luck in your endeavour.

However asking us to be more tolerant of meat eaters in this newsgroup
is just not on, if they don't like what they read (and they have every right
not to) then they can read something else. It's a free world isn't it?

>     Think this is impossible?  It is--as long as you continue to stay locked
>in your clique, unwilling to give others help.
>
     Think this is impossible?  It is--as long as we leave the meat eaters
to themselves (and hopefully they will leave us in our blissful deluded state).

>>I  wonder,  is  alt.atheism continually swamped with bible bashers?
>     Only when bible thumpers show up trying to save the newsgroup from eternal
>damnation 8+)

That sounds pretty close to rec.food.veg then.

>     But seriously, since when have meat-eaters shown up on the net to proclaim
>you folks crazies who need to be shown "THE ONE TRUE AMERICAN DIET WHICH WILL
>MAKE YOU HEALTHY, WEALTHY AND WISE"  None, from what I've been able to read. 
>Instead, I hear flames aimed at milk drinkers, those who hang out...(you know
>the rest).
>
How long have you been reading this newsgroup? Every week I hear someone
state that we are a bunch of intolerant ignoramuses, and half the time
this is coming from vegetarians preaching to each other!

>>That's what rec.food.veg seems like to me.  If we can't discuss our likes
>>and dislikes openly in this newsgroup where can we? Why should we change our
>>behaviour to satisfy the non vegetarian readers?
>     Well...you don't have to.  If you would like more vegetarians, I would
>suggest keeping the following in mind:

Did I say I would like more vegetarians? I'm not in any rush to change
the world, I gave that lark up a long time ago. Its the constant preaching
that I find annoying in this newsgroup. I don't preach to others and I
don't want them to preach to me.

>     1) Vegetarianism includes milk products as well.

No, really? I didn't know that.

>     2) Honey attracts more flies than vinegar

Rotting meat attracts more flies than soya beans, so what?

>>To end on a note of intolerance:
>>
>>I  think  *everbody*  should  stop  killing  animals  for  food,  clothing,
>>experimentation,  whatever.  No  if's  no but's, no nothing.
>     I hope that in your next life you're born as an Eskimo in Siberia.  If
>then you can keep your vegetarian lifestyle intact, THEN you can be intolerant
>of everyone else.  ;+) ;+) ;+) ;+) ;+) ;+)
>
As a devout practising atheist I know there will be no next life to worry
about, and eskimos have shorter than average lifespans due to their high
meat intake so it wouldn't be much of a life anyway.



-- 
Michael Traub
BT Customer Systems, Brighton Systems Centre. traub@rtf.bt.co.uk