HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: melin@hlrz24.hlrz.kfa-juelich.de (Stephan Melin)
Subject: Re: CARBON ARROWS
Organization: Forschungszentrum Juelich GmbH (KFA), Germany
Followup-To: alt.archery
Keywords: arrow materials, personal experiences
Date: Thu, 15 Oct 1992 21:31:24 GMT
X-Posted-From: hlrz24.hlrz.kfa-juelich.de
NNTP-Posting-Host: sol.ctr.columbia.edu

These are my experiences with arrows (target archery only):

So far I think aluminium arrows are still the most durable ones, 
a few years ago when I was still shooting aluminium arrows, a set
of 8 lasted for about 2 years (indoor and outdoor season) until
I needed new ones (reasons usually: increase in draw length,
stronger limbs). I have always preferred heavier arrows like
..15 ..16 etc., so this could be one of the reasons. I once had
a set of 2013 which I shot for about 3 weeks only, because after
that time one was broken and another one was dented and I hadn't been
able to tune them after this time, so I got fed up with them and 
ordered a set of arrow shafts with a different spine...
This doesn't mean that aluminium arrows last for ever, after some
time the material will fatigue and the spine of the arrow will
change (in one book the author, I think it was J.Cadet, even claimed
that if you turn the the arrow 90 degrees along the main axis, the
spine will be sometimes differ ==> time for a new set of arrows...)

With carbon arrows: I now have my 2nd dozen of ACEs, the first one
lasted for two outdoor seasons only until I was down to 5. With the
ACEs its either broken or the arrow is OK. Some other members of our 
club shoot the DIVAs: they either shatter or will "die a slow
death" (sorry I couldn't find a better term): after a while you
can twist them along their main axis, and it is not possible to
get good groups when one has some brand new arrows and some which
can be twisted. One of these members breaks a lot of the DIVAs in one
season, but I think it is mainly due to a poor tuning of the bow.
Some people tried the ECS arrows, because the were cheap, but after
the second dozen in two months they now shoot either ACEs or DIVAs.


So I think if your bow is tuned properly (so that the arrows hit the
target nearly perpendicular) and you are shooting consitently (no bad
looses...) carbon arrows will last quite long, but never as long as
a heavie aluminium arrow.


Good shooting, whatever your arrows are made of (Aluminium, Carbon,
Aluminium-Carbon, Wood, Fibre-Glass, ...)  

-- 
Stephan Melin

melin@hlrserv.hlrz.kfa-juelich.de   ||    hkf418@djukfa11.bitnet
From: biocca@bevsun.bev.lbl.gov (Alan K Biocca)
Newsgroups: alt.archery
Subject: Re: Problem with Bowhunter's Wharehouse/Nock Question
Date: 7 Oct 1992 23:38:05 GMT
Organization: Lawrence Berkeley Laboratory, California
Distribution: usa
NNTP-Posting-Host: 131.243.192.16

In article <1992Oct2.033057.5134@murdoch.acc.Virginia.EDU> ejh2p@faraday.clas.Virginia.EDU (Swedish Chef) writes:
>Hi,  I was wondering if any of you have had any problems with ordering
>from Bowhunter's Wharehouse.  The first time I ordered from them
>..., I ordered some built arrows ... and requested that they nock the
>arrows cock-vane-up.  Well, I received my arrows, and they were
>standard nocked.  ... do they do things like this regularly?
>BTW, I didn't get charged for special nocking...
> The rest of the order was fine, and when I called
>their customer service ... [they] seemed very
>helpful, offering to send me extra nocks (which I had to decline), so...

Since they didn't charge you for special nocking it is likely the special
request was lost between you and their arrow-makers.

Why didn't you accept the replacement nocks?

I've had good luck with Bowhunter's Warehouse.  Recently they shorted me
one camo t-shirt (I'd ordered two), and when called they sent another out
without question.  They've had no problems refunding on returns that I've
made.  Unlike places like Gander and Cabelas the order takers are generally
knowledgeable on their products.  On the down side, their prices on some
items aren't too good.  Arrows and shafts are slightly high, but not too
bad.  Loose fletching is way high - they insist on selling by 36 instead of
100 pkg.  They do have a good accessory selection though, far better
than the Gander/Cabelas type places.

>...  Is it possible to remove the existing nocks and reuse them to
>renock my arrows, or should I use my supply of replacement nocks?

Unless they were very poorly glued on removal will likely require a
utility knife and the nocks won't be useful after the hacking is done.
Perfection is quite important there, so a new nock is indicated.

Alan K Biocca
From: dasaxe@milton.u.washington.edu (Daniel Perreault)
Newsgroups: alt.archery
Subject: Re: CARBON ARROWS
Date: 16 Oct 92 20:46:13 GMT
Organization: University of Washington, Seattle

In article <1992Oct15.151317.1@pitvax.claremont.edu> schang@pitvax.claremont.edu writes:
>In article <1992Oct14.052312.9056@monu6.cc.monash.edu.au>, ins769v@lindblat.cc.monash.edu.au (Veltyen) writes:
>       Actually, I find it near impossible to bend aluminum arrows back
>without leaving little dimples in the shafts.  On the other hand, I
>could probably attribute this to the fact that I use 1416 arrows; I know
>that's somewhat narrow and thin.
>       Also, my archery dealer told me that with my bow(Pearson Rogue,
>50lbs. at 50% letoff), I would never be able to use anything other than
>1416 arrows effectively.  Is it true?  If it is, do they make hunting
>arrows in that size?  Thanks.
>
>-Shadowmage


This bit about 1416's is absolutely untrue. Shooting 50# at 50% letoff,
there are several arrows that should tune quite well for you, 1913, 1914,
1815, 2013, 1816, 2012 and 2112 are all ones that you should be able to
shoot fine out of your bow. You may notcie that not all of these are
going to be spined the same, which one you choose will depend on what
type of shooter you are and what type of arrow want. I have never even
heard of someone shooting a 1416 and I guess they would be hard to bend
back. I know a girl shooting a 50# Martin Lynx Magnum who shoots 2117's
because she likes the forgiveness of a heavier arrow and they tuned just
fine for her. In point of fact, I would be tremdously surprised if the
1416 was truely spined right for your bow, it sounds very light. I am
sure Easton makes a camo arrow in that size, however. I am not trying too
make you change, just let you know there are many choices out there.


Dan Perreault
dasaxe@u.washington.edu
From: u2119863@csdvax.csd.unsw.edu.au
Newsgroups: alt.archery
Subject: re: archery
Summary: problem
Date: 16 Oct 92 02:24:11 GMT
Organization: University of New South Wales

why is archery so interesting?
Newsgroups: alt.archery
From: bblohm@boi.hp.com (Bill Blohm)
Subject: Archery Bird Hunting
Date: Fri, 9 Oct 1992 15:43:52 GMT
Organization: Hewlett-Packard / Boise, Idaho
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1.4 PL6]
Keywords: archery bird hunting

I saw the two mentions in this group about bird hunting.  I am wondering
if someone could clarify something.  In the discussion of points to use,
there is only a passing mention of Judo points.  Each, or at least most,
of the people mention using a fishing rig as well.  My question is: what
is the effectiveness of a Judo point as a birding point?  Is this considered
a wire point?

I think I understand the use of the fishing rig.  It is mostly to avoid the
hunting for spent arrows, right?

I have not done any bird hunting yet, but have the opportunity to do so
this year.  I plan to check on the regs, but think I will be OK there.

Bill

********************************************************************************
Standard disclaimers apply, even if nobody ever listens to me.
********************************************************************************

bblohm@hpbs1686.boi.hp.com     \\
mage@hpbs202.boi.hp.com         ========\  You pays your money, takes your pick.
bill@hpbs202.boi.hp.com         ========/  They all reach me, or soon or late.
bill_blohm@hp4600.desk.hp.com  //
                           
Newsgroups: alt.archery
From: ejh2p@faraday.clas.Virginia.EDU (Swedish Chef)
Subject: Re: CARBON ARROWS
Organization: University of Virginia
Date: Wed, 14 Oct 1992 22:07:09 GMT

In article <1992Oct14.052312.9056@monu6.cc.monash.edu.au> ins769v@lindblat.cc.monash.edu.au (Veltyen) writes:
>DON SLEEPER (dsleeper@OAVAX.CSUCHICO.EDU) wrote:

> BTW the alum' I was using were target
>arrows (1916's) not hunting arrows, which are harder to break.
>
>-Veltyen
>
>
Speaking of target arrows vs. hunting arrows, I was wondering what was
the difference between the Easton XX75 hunting arrows and the XX75
Target arrows--say the size of both are equal 2213 or somesuch.  I
know the target arrows are a little more expensive, is this just
because they are made to slightly stricter tolerances than the reg
XX75's?  Or is there something else different? (Besides the color.)


Also, on a different note, I am renocking my current 2213 XX75's
(Autumn Hunter), which are fletched w/ 5" Plastifletch-Elite vanes
Left-Helical, three fletch per arrow.  I shoot off a TM Hunter supreme
w/ a Scott Caliper release.  Because of the release, and the position
of the rest, I am not using a plunger.  I am nocking my arrows Cock
Vane Up.  Any suggestions out there on placing the nock so the rest
doesn't disturb the fletching during flight, or should I clip the end
of my rest at an angle, so the arrow only rests on a small portion of
the v?

Thanks,
-ed
--
#################################
ejh2p@faraday.clas.virginia.edu
From: dasaxe@milton.u.washington.edu (Daniel Perreault)
Newsgroups: alt.archery
Subject: Re: Arrow Rest
Date: 16 Oct 92 20:35:37 GMT
Organization: University of Washington, Seattle

In article <Bw6I9y.CBr@dcs.ed.ac.uk> ajcd@dcs.ed.ac.uk (Angus Duggan) writes:
>In article <1992Oct15.124020.1@cc.curtin.edu.au>, stanjm02@cc.curtin.edu.au writes:
>> Can anybody shed some light on the question
>> "Should there be any contact of fletches and arrow rest when shooting an arrow?"
>
>In a nutshell, no. There should not be any contact between rest and fletches.
>You should try rotating your nocks so that the fletch does not hit. If that
>doesn't work, try different fletches. If that doesn't work, it is possible
>that you have too weak an arrow spine, which is causing the arrow to flex too
>much on your release.
>
>a.
>--
>Angus Duggan, Department of Computer Science,  | I'm pink, therefore I'm Spam.
>University of Edinburgh, JCMB,                 | JANET:  ajcd@uk.ac.ed.dcs
>The King's Buildings, Mayfield Road,           | VOICE:  (UK) 031 650 5126
>Edinburgh, EH9 3JZ, Scotland.                  | INET: ajcd@dcs.ed.ac.uk


It is also possible that your spine is too stiff and the arrow is not         
flexing far enough to get out of the way of the rest. In fact, if the
fletch makes contact regardless of the angle the nock is at, this is
very likely the problem. Usually if the spine is too soft, the nock
can be rotated so there is not any contact, but it will not tune
at all.


Dan Perreault
dasaxe@u.washington.edu
From: JXH150@psuvm.psu.edu
Newsgroups: alt.archery
Subject: hunting
Date: 8 Oct 92 19:23:02 GMT
Organization: Penn State University

I am a junior at Penn State, but this is my first semester at UP.  I am looking
for someone to go hunting with here at UP.  My id is jxh150, If there is anyone
interested please reply to my id or to netnews.
Newsgroups: alt.archery
From: ins769v@lindblat.cc.monash.edu.au (Veltyen)
Subject: Re: CARBON ARROWS
Organization: Monash University
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1 PL6]
Date: Wed, 14 Oct 1992 05:23:12 GMT

DON SLEEPER (dsleeper@OAVAX.CSUCHICO.EDU) wrote:
: 
:     can build a dozen carbons for $60.00, about twice the cost of
:     aluminum.  But the carbons will last 4 to 1, vs aluminum.  It takes
:     5 pounds of pressure to bend an alumium arrow and 28 pounds to
:     break a carbon (shatter).  Carbons do not bend.  

Yes but you can <nearly> always bend the aluminium back. The only time
I have seen a aluminium arrow shatter, or even break badly, is from
a 65# compound into a brick wall 30m away. A shattered carbon has no
possibility of reusing the shaft. BTW the alum' I was using were target
arrows (1916's) not hunting arrows, which are harder to break.

-Veltyen


Newsgroups: alt.archery
From: CBARNES@tamvm1.tamu.edu (Chris Barnes)
Subject: Re: CARBON ARROWS
Organization: Texas A&M University
Date: Wed, 14 Oct 1992 20:12:40 GMT

In article <1992Oct14.052312.9056@monu6.cc.monash.edu.au>
ins769v@lindblat.cc.monash.edu.au (Veltyen) writes:
 
>Yes but you can <nearly> always bend the aluminium back.
 
Well......I don't believe in bending arrows back (at least not
severly bent ones).  In that case, I just break them, and toss them
away.  So the real question here becomes:  will a carbon arrow
remain usable when the same force is used to BEND an aluminum
arrow beyond repair?  Actual experiances prefered to hear-say.
 
 
Another question:  what size broadhead should I use on a 29"
carbon arrow that is leaving a 60 lb. bow?  A 65 lb. bow?
 
      ---------------------------------------------------------
                        |  Pure Breed Labs - ready on Thanksgiving Day
Chris Barnes            |     Sonny's Yellar Dawg Dixie SH
cbarnes@tamvm1.tamu.edu |              x
(409) 846-3273 (home)   |  HR Millercreek's Cash Payoff MH
(409) 845-4437 (work)   |       (finished MH title at 1992 Nat'l Master)
                        |
                        |  They were born on Thursday (Oct. 8).
                        |  She had 10 pups....5 male & 5 female
From: vader@meryl.csd.uu.se (]ke Eldberg)
Newsgroups: alt.archery
Subject: Re: traditional archery,anyone?
Date: 7 Oct 92 14:32:42
Organization: University of Uppsala, Sweden
NNTP-Posting-Host: meryl.csd.uu.se
In-reply-to: dang@boi.hp.com's message of Tue, 6 Oct 1992 23:05:15 GMT

Dan Gilbert, welcome to the net. Your posting only needs one slight
polish: insert carriage returns at the end of lines; auto wraparound
does not work on all machines.

As to trees and wood, I am very interested! But the language barrier
is a problem here since the names of exotic plants are not in my
English-Swedish dictionary. Orange Osage? Black Locus? I realize
that it may be asking a lot, but could you look them up and get
the Latin names?

Ake Eldberg
From: ajcd@dcs.ed.ac.uk (Angus Duggan)
Newsgroups: alt.archery
Subject: Re: Arrow Rest
Date: 15 Oct 92 20:01:09 GMT
Followup-To: alt.archery
Organization: Edinburgh University Fried Brain Carry-out

In article <1992Oct15.124020.1@cc.curtin.edu.au>, stanjm02@cc.curtin.edu.au writes:
> Can anybody shed some light on the question 
> "Should there be any contact of fletches and arrow rest when shooting an arrow?"

In a nutshell, no. There should not be any contact between rest and fletches.
You should try rotating your nocks so that the fletch does not hit. If that
doesn't work, try different fletches. If that doesn't work, it is possible
that you have too weak an arrow spine, which is causing the arrow to flex too
much on your release.

a.
-- 
Angus Duggan, Department of Computer Science,	| I'm pink, therefore I'm Spam.
University of Edinburgh, JCMB,			| JANET:  ajcd@uk.ac.ed.dcs
The King's Buildings, Mayfield Road,		| VOICE:  (UK) 031 650 5126
Edinburgh, EH9 3JZ, Scotland.	                | INET: ajcd@dcs.ed.ac.uk
From: schang@pitvax.claremont.edu
Newsgroups: alt.archery
Subject: Re: CARBON ARROWS
Date: 15 Oct 92 22:13:17 GMT
Organization: Pitzer College

In article <1992Oct14.052312.9056@monu6.cc.monash.edu.au>, ins769v@lindblat.cc.monash.edu.au (Veltyen) writes:
> DON SLEEPER (dsleeper@OAVAX.CSUCHICO.EDU) wrote:

> Yes but you can <nearly> always bend the aluminium back. The only time
> I have seen a aluminium arrow shatter, or even break badly, is from
> a 65# compound into a brick wall 30m away. A shattered carbon has no
> possibility of reusing the shaft. BTW the alum' I was using were target
> arrows (1916's) not hunting arrows, which are harder to break.
> 
> -Veltyen

	Actually, I find it near impossible to bend aluminum arrows back
without leaving little dimples in the shafts.  On the other hand, I
could probably attribute this to the fact that I use 1416 arrows; I know
that's somewhat narrow and thin.
	Also, my archery dealer told me that with my bow(Pearson Rogue,
50lbs. at 50% letoff), I would never be able to use anything other than
1416 arrows effectively.  Is it true?  If it is, do they make hunting
arrows in that size?  Thanks.

-Shadowmage
From: vader@meryl.csd.uu.se (]ke Eldberg)
Newsgroups: alt.archery
Subject: Re: CARBON ARROWS
Date: 13 Oct 92 10:18:27
Organization: University of Uppsala, Sweden
	<1992Oct13.060308.24792@u.washington.edu>
NNTP-Posting-Host: meryl.csd.uu.se
In-reply-to: dasaxe@milton.u.washington.edu's message of 13 Oct 92 06:03:08 GMT

I am not a hunter, but I know several around here. They shoot
carbon or ACC/ACE (composite) arrows at targets, but almost
all of them use aluminum for hunting. The stated reasons are:
1. Hunting arrows need to be a little heavier than carbon.
2. Aluminum is more forgiving in case the bow is not
   optimally tuned.
3. It is easier to fit broadheads on aluminum.
4. They are cheaper and (subjective) better looking.

That is what I have been told.

]ke Eldberg
From: cyc@basil.eng.monash.edu.au (Chung Chin Yau)
Newsgroups: alt.archery
Subject: Re: Arrow Rest
Date: 16 Oct 92 04:22:54 GMT
Organization: Electrical & Computer Systems Eng. Dept., Monash Uni.

In article <3368@ariel.its.unimelb.EDU.AU> mepol29@ariel.its.unimelb.EDU.AU (Adam Rosham) writes:
>In <1992Oct15.124020.1@cc.curtin.edu.au> stanjm02@cc.curtin.edu.au writes:
>
>>Can anybody shed some light on the question 
>>"Should there be any contact of fletches and arrow rest when shooting an arrow?"
>
>>My problem is this. My bottom fletch has developed a scratch mark were my
>>rest rubbs against it during arrow flight. I understand that this should
>>not be the case. I shoot barebow, finger release and was told by my dealer
>>that the rest should not be hitting the bottom fletch. I use the "Super-Flyte"
>>and he suggest tilting the rest ant an angle so as to let arrow fletch pass
>>through the rest without contact. I am not really convince that this is the
>>answer. My scores have been pretty much average. Can anybody who use the
>>Super-Flyte rest help resolve this matter?
>
>>Thanks.
>
>It absolutely should not touch the rest, no matter what your dealer
    ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Very true for release shooting, but it may not always be possible with those 
shoot around rests used in finger shooting.

>told you. Any contact between arrow and rest will cause your arrows to
>fly incorrectly. Have you tried paper tuning your bow/arrow/rest
>setup? If not you may be shooting well under your capabilities.
>Cheers,
>Adam
>
>Adam Rosham-mepol29@ariel.ucs.unimelb.edu.au="Oh Pointy Birds, Oh Pointy Pointy
>Melbourne University, Melbourne Australia.  = Anoint My Head, Anointy Nointy."
>ph: (03) 853-9720                           = Steve Martin (T.M.W.T.B's)
From: dsleeper@OAVAX.CSUCHICO.EDU (DON SLEEPER)
Newsgroups: alt.archery
Subject: RE: CARBON ARROWS
Date: 12 Oct 1992 21:04:24 GMT
Organization: California State University, Chico
Reply-To: dsleeper@OAVAX.CSUCHICO.EDU
NNTP-Posting-Host: oavax.csuchico.edu


>I shoot a 60 lbs.  compound, and might buy a new bow later on, but
>don't want to go any higher than about 65 lbs.  Any comments you could
>provide would be appreciated.  In particluar, I would like to hear
>about :
> 
>1) general comments about carbon vs. aluminum arrows
>   (ie. are they worth it?)
    After using carbons for 6 months, I believe they are worth it.  I
    can build a dozen carbons for $60.00, about twice the cost of
    aluminum.  But the carbons will last 4 to 1, vs aluminum.  It takes
    5 pounds of pressure to bend an alumium arrow and 28 pounds to
    break a carbon (shatter).  Carbons do not bend.  Currently there are two
    major manufactors, AFC and Beman, both use the same material.  A concern
    with carbons is the splinters when broken, they are not poisonous as
    we we first told to believe by Easton, but they have a directional
    barb effect.  Carbon is an inert element that is not poisonous.
>2) lengths of arrows (I shoot a 29" 2117 now).
    I shoot a 75lb bow at 29" with great results. I have taken two caribou, a
    hog and deer, this year.  All shots, with the exception of a spine shot
    were pass-throughs.  Penetration is unbelievable. I could have killed
    two or three caribou if they were standing side by side.
>3) comments about brands of carbon arrows
    It's your choice, AFC or Beman.  I shoot Bemans for hunting, 3-D, and
    indoor tournaments.  I personally believe within 2 years, half the
    folks in archery will be shooting carbons.  They are a better
    arrow.  Look at the Olympics, most teams shot carbon.
>4) what size (weights) of broadhead/points to use on them.
>   (I currently use 125 grain tips)
    I use the Beman 60/80 shaft with a 75lb bow at 29", and 125
    grain Thunderheads.
  
>5) do I need any other special equipment?
>      (such as rest, fletchings, etc.)
       I use a New Archery Products Centerrest with flipper and shoot with
       a release.  Most folks use something like the TM hunter that can 
       be adjusted for the smaller shaft.  No change in fletching.
>      ---------------------------------------------------------
>Chris Barnes           
>cbarnes@tamvm1.tamu.edu 
>(409) 846-3273 (home)  
>(409) 845-4437 (work)   

***************************************************************************
DON SLEEPER, CALIFORNIA STATE UNIVERSITY, CHICO I PLANT OPERATION
DSLEEPER@OAVAX.CSUCHICO.EDU                     I DEPT 925, CHICO, CA 95929
From: tang@akofin.enet.dec.com (Gabe Tang)
Newsgroups: alt.archery
Subject: Re: hunting
Date: 9 Oct 92 17:36:21 GMT
Organization: the vms company


re: <JXH150@psuvm.psu.edu> :
>I am a junior at Penn State, but this is my first semester at UP.  I am looking
>for someone to go hunting with here at UP.  My id is jxh150, If there is anyone
>interested please reply to my id or to netnews.

	Well, let's see here.....what exactly are you going to be hunting???!

	As a first semester student.....I should think you would be chasing
	some birds!!! not other animals...and certainly not beasts! ;^)
From: mepol29@ariel.its.unimelb.EDU.AU (Adam Rosham)
Newsgroups: alt.archery
Subject: Re: Arrow Rest
Date: 16 Oct 92 02:26:49 GMT
Organization: University of Melbourne, Australia

In <1992Oct15.124020.1@cc.curtin.edu.au> stanjm02@cc.curtin.edu.au writes:

>Can anybody shed some light on the question 
>"Should there be any contact of fletches and arrow rest when shooting an arrow?"

>My problem is this. My bottom fletch has developed a scratch mark were my
>rest rubbs against it during arrow flight. I understand that this should
>not be the case. I shoot barebow, finger release and was told by my dealer
>that the rest should not be hitting the bottom fletch. I use the "Super-Flyte"
>and he suggest tilting the rest ant an angle so as to let arrow fletch pass
>through the rest without contact. I am not really convince that this is the
>answer. My scores have been pretty much average. Can anybody who use the
>Super-Flyte rest help resolve this matter?

>Thanks.

It absolutely should not touch the rest, no matter what your dealer
told you. Any contact between arrow and rest will cause your arrows to
fly incorrectly. Have you tried paper tuning your bow/arrow/rest
setup? If not you may be shooting well under your capabilities.
Cheers,
Adam

Adam Rosham-mepol29@ariel.ucs.unimelb.edu.au="Oh Pointy Birds, Oh Pointy Pointy
Melbourne University, Melbourne Australia.  = Anoint My Head, Anointy Nointy."
ph: (03) 853-9720                           = Steve Martin (T.M.W.T.B's)
Newsgroups: alt.archery