HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: krikket@meltdown.chi.il.us (D. 'krikket' Krick)
Newsgroups: alt.sexual.abuse.recovery
Subject: Short Message
Date: 11 Oct 92 12:15:34 GMT
Organization: The Meltdown - A Team Star BBS

Hello.

A few days ago I posted a message stating that technically I was a child
molester.  True in and of itself, according to Illinois law.  But I also
already posted this to ASAR when I started posting here.  This was the incident
with Teri, the minor who I (not legally) MARRIED.

According to all practical purposes (except legal) this was a basic Romeo and
Juliet situation, where he parents forcibly seperated us.  And I left
(grudgingly) when they decided to voice their disaproval over the situation. 
(Her father had previous knowledge about me, and met me on a couple occasions,
and her mother approved of me, when 2 years was subtracted from my age...

I feel a bit ostrasized from ASAR right now, because EVERYONE who I was talking
to (except one person) stopped writing me as of that day.

Am I really that evil of a person that should be shut off, or...?

And if I should leave, just say so, and I will.  I don't want to make things
harder on anyone else.  I'm making this post in case A> It's just coincidence
or B> I've gotten the wrong message completely somehow...

And right now I'm admittantly going through some situations that should NOT be
posted here, which is a reason why I've NOT been posting to ASAR.  I don't want
to offend anyone.  But in reflection, I can see how making light of that
particular law could have been a VERY BAD move on my part.  And I want to
apologize!!!

+--------------------+------------------------------+------------------------+
|Krikket             |  krikket@meltdown.chi.il.us  | USnail: 3 Danada Sq. E.!
|a.k.a Doug Krick    | NOTICE: Your milage may vary |  Suite 246             !
|Data # 708/665-9732 | E-Hugs to those who want 'em |  Wheaton, Il 60187     !
+--------------------------------------------------+-------------------------+
|                What God wants, God gets, God help us all!                  |
+----------------------------------------------------------------------------+
Newsgroups: alt.sexual.abuse.recovery
From: zitsky+@CS.CMU.EDU (Mark Ryan Miller)
Subject: Re: Emotional Letter
Organization: Carnegie Mellon University
Date: Thu, 15 Oct 1992 20:39:49 GMT

|> 	I have the opposite problem -- I have feelings inside that
|> 	feel like they should be expressed with gushing tears and loud
|> 	shouts, but I can't seem to do that (even a little bit). Oh
|> 	well, ...
|> 
|> 	Doug Sojourner


Going through therapy for 8 months has helped me to start to feel my emotions.
After years of different kinds of abuse, (none physical), I sometimes had
problems identifying what I was feeling.  I would feel something, but couldn't
put a label on it.  Now, I'm starting to know 'Oh, I'm angry', or 'I'm 
sad.'

--Mark
From: mcmorris@mentor.cc.purdue.edu (brandywine)
Newsgroups: alt.sexual.abuse.recovery
Subject: Re: will it be a chanb. or combo
Date: 16 Oct 92 00:02:58 GMT
Organization: Purdue University Computing Center

and one alto/2nd soprano who has some training
but I like folk music more
and can diddle on the violin....

-brandywine
From: tdelaney@penn.Gwinnett.COM (ted delaney)
Newsgroups: alt.sexual.abuse.recovery
Subject: Re: holidays...
Date: 9 Oct 92 02:33:16 GMT

stote@tomcat.den.mmc.com (M. Stote) writes:

> Hi Ted,
> Geeze this is a long way of saying that I don't have any great ideas.  I real
> just wanted to thank you for raising the question, cause Shelly has been 
> getting a little on edge and I didn't make the connection :(.  Once I know
> it just makes it a lot easier to deal with, otherwise I tend to just assume
> it has soemthing to do with me!
> 
> Anyway take care & here's lots of hugs if they are safe!

thanks- I think also, that KNOWING you are NOT the only one helps alot...
(flamers beware- touch this and I WILL fight back!)

nice to know there are some folks out there....somewhere...
:-}#
Newsgroups: alt.sexual.abuse.recovery
From: sfjr@wam.umd.edu (Sherri)
Subject: Re: Memories Invalidated??? Re: Child
Organization: University of Maryland, College Park
Date: Tue, 13 Oct 1992 02:49:56 GMT


Ode, I really don't have time right now to give you a response that
would do your concerns justice.  I also don't have what I want to
give you on a lot of levels since I'm facing some very confusing
and disturbing body memories this week.

So this will be condensed--I want you to know that being confused doesn't
mean you're wrong, it doesn't mean anything.  I don't know anyone who
wasn't confused by recovering repressed memories.  This whole process
and journey that we are embarking on, it isn't about being right, it's
about healing.  You're not at a stage where you're taking the guy to
court or anything.  You haven't even confronted anybody.  You can afford
to take some time to sort things out without demanding that everythought
that goes through your head be 100% correct.

Some memories seem to invalidate others at first, but then later you
realize that both are true.

Vickie, I think that you are strong and that you have courage.  I think
that you know what you need to know--that you need to heal and that there
really is something to heal from, that you need to treat yourself with
respect so you don't trash your self-esteem in the process.  You're learning,
the hard way I'm afraid, that not everyone understands these issues.

You are free to leave any time you want even though we care and will
miss you.  yOu are also welcome back at any time even if you choose to
leave for awhile (but I hope you don't :)).  ASAR exists for your benefit.
Somehow we manage to imperfectly keep some sort of support system around,
and you've already been an important part of it.  I hope that this
group will always seem helpful to you.  Sometimes all these stories
brought into one place will seem almost unreal sometimes.  I think in
the courage to heal it says that eventually it becomes easier to believe
our memories than it is to continually doubt ourselves.  

I hope something here is useful to you.  I care about you.

Sherri


Newsgroups: alt.sexual.abuse.recovery
From: ks4443f92@auvax1.adelphi.edu
Subject: Re: Child  *****  !!! SPOILER !!!  *****
Reply-To: ks4443f92@auvax1.adelphi.edu
Organization: Adelphi University, Garden City, NY
Date: Mon, 12 Oct 1992 19:45:45 GMT

...after reading this, it just occurred to me: is that what he (the perp) was doing with me?  Is that why a lot of this sounds so familiar??  (I never really knew before why it was he did (specifically) the things he had done to me...not that I ever really wanted to know why...
Or instead, had he just decided that to go through with it would be too obvious, so he bided his time?

darkangel
Newsgroups: alt.sexual.abuse.recovery
Subject: Re: Crisis about the holidays
From: emiddlec@mora.gac.edu (Eric Middlecamp)
Date: 7 Oct 92 19:59:49 -0600

In article <Bvnys2.ELE@twwells.com>  writes:
>
>The holidays are coming up. As they approach,
>I'm forced to deal with something that I've been
>putting off dealing with. I thought maybe some
>of you might know what I'm going through...
>
..
>
>If I do go, I know that my mother will just treat
>me the same way she has always treated me and I'll
>end up in tears and feeling worthless and stupid.
>If I don't go, I'm afraid of the letters and phone
>calls I'll get telling me about how I've ruined
>everyone's Christmas and why can't I think of
>anyone other than myself.
>
>My mom and stepfather know I'm in therapy and
>think I'm stupid and crazy for it. I'm afraid
>that they will tell that to everyone at Christmas
>and everyone will hate me for talking about
>such private things with someone outside of the
>family.
>
>I really don't want to see either of them right
>now, but I don't know how to tell them that. I
>feel like the way I feel is wrong and that I'm
>hurting everyone and that I should just do what
>my mother says and just shut up. Whenever I call
>their house to tell them I don't want to see them,
>I just get all paralyzed and numb and end up
>agreeing to do whatever they ask me to do. It's
>like I don't really have a choice in things, because
>they're my parents and you should always do what
>your parents say, (like your parents are always right.)
>I know that this is not the way it is, that my parents
>are really not justified in doing what they do, (or
>what they have done) but
>my mind still thinks that I have to do what they say.

	To hell with them. Let them wonder in their little world.
	Protect yourself. People who are totally selfless need to 
	learn how to be selfish to balance themselves. Try.

>I know all this probably sounds really disjointed
>and stupid, but of anyone has any suggestions
>on this, I could sure use them...
>
>Thanks,
>The Peaceful Warrior
 ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
	Damn good book. Try also reading:
		Zen Mind, Beginner's Mind: Shunryu Suzuki
		The Empty Mirror: ?I forget?
		^ The sequel to this
		Chop Wood, Carry Water
		and on and on and on

>
>--
>To use this service, send EMAIL to:
>anon-ping@twwells.com  -- test path/get anonymous id
>anon-help@twwells.com  -- for an automatically returned help message
>anon-admin@twwells.com -- ANON administrator
>anon-0@twwells.com     -- anonymous e-mail to ANON administrator
>anon-asar@twwells.com  -- post anonymously to alt.sexual.abuse.recovery
Newsgroups: alt.recovery
Subject: Re: from Adria
From: emiddlec@mora.gac.edu (Eric Middlecamp)
Date: 12 Oct 92 22:50:36 -0600
Distribution: alt

>=====Begin post for Adria=====
>Higher power concepts:
..
>     THIS HAS BEEN MY OPINION.
>
>---Adria (dog@corenllc.cit.cornell.edu)

(clap) (clap) (clap)
From: gcr@hpfcso.FC.HP.COM (George Rieck)
Date: Wed, 7 Oct 1992 22:32:35 GMT
Subject: Re: Proofs of God (was Re: 'Playing the Odds')
Organization: Hewlett-Packard, Fort Collins, CO, USA
Newsgroups: alt.recovery


What have you got to lose? Your self respect for one. Let me say, "
OK God if you exist give me a couple million bucks". 

If God actually gave me something like this then God has less sense than
my Goldfish! 

I contend that this would be proof that God does not exist!

George
From: tibbits@sisal.llnl.gov (Patrick Tibbits)
Newsgroups: alt.recovery
Subject: Re: Why I couldn't take AA & why I both
Date: 9 Oct 92 05:20:40 GMT
Organization: Lawrence Livermore National Laboratory

If memory serves, Jesus enjoins his listeners not to pray by rote
or set formula  "but in this wise" and then rattles off the LP. So
we recite it by rote every meeting istead of praying in our own
words. 

Patrick
From: rnt@druwa.ATT.COM (Bob Thomas)
Newsgroups: alt.recovery
Subject: Re: Insanity Definition and Pres Debate (NON-POLITICAL)
Date: 15 Oct 92 14:57:06 GMT

in article <1992Oct14.222631.6188@elroy.jpl.nasa.gov>, a bunch of
people say a lot of things.

+> >>> Does anyone out there remember the source of the quote, "Insanity is
+> >>> doing the same thing over and over again and expecting something
+> >>> different to happen?" (or words to that effect).
+> >
+> >The last time I heard it, it was attributed to "either John Bradshaw or 
+> >Earnie Larson.  I don't know who said it first."
+> >
+> It is from the second step section of the How it Works chapter of the Narcotics
+> Anonymous Basic Text. Now, the dope fiends may have stolen it from somewhere
+> else (we're like that, you know) but you will find it there.

The saying was around before the first draft of the Basic Text
was written.  It was also around before John Bradshaw hit the
big-time.  I'm not sure how long Ernie Larson has been on the
workshop circuit, but I heard the saying 14 years ago when I
was in finishing school.  ("Finishing school" is slang for a
treatment center.  I've also heard them referred to as "dude
ranches.")

Bob T.
Newsgroups: alt.recovery
From: millman@bear.bear.com (Phillip Millman)
Newsgroups: alt.recovery
Subject: Re: How I say the Lord's Prayer
Date: 9 Oct 92 18:38:09 GMT
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1 PL6]

: Does anyone really believe that de-Christianizing AA would
: undermine its effectiveness?


I certianly don't.  I am an observant Jew who goes to AA regularly, believes
in the principles of the Program and isn't offeneded by others saying
the Lord's Prayer.  I however never said the prayer and probably never will.
I say a prayer in Hebrew that is meaningful to me.  Occasionally people
ask about what I say but never has anyone complaied that MY prayer is
not program.  

For a couple of months I used this prayer as an obsticle to my recovery.  I
just ignore it.  If some People find it useful, GREAT! If not, use your own
prayer.

Why push the mountain when you can go around it??

Phillip Millman
--
Phillip Millman					millman@bear.com
The opinions expressed are those of Phillip Millman and not that of 
Bear Stearns & Co. Inc.  I think it is better that way.
From: rons@soul.tv.tek.com (Ron Selberg)
Newsgroups: alt.recovery
Subject: Re: Nicotine
Date: 9 Oct 92 16:51:18 GMT
Organization: Tektronix TV Products

Fran, do I have to admit this? It has been more difficult than I thought.
And I have not been successful to this point. 
Life has been real painfull these days and I couldn't keep myself on track.
I am still trying and not beating myself up for my failure. Sobriety first
and the rest later.
Thanks for asking and good luck to you as well.
RON
 
Newsgroups: alt.recovery
From: cah@tyr.JPL.NASA.gov (Allen Halsell)
Subject: Re: Insanity Definition and Pres Debate (NON-POLITICAL)
Organization: Jet Propulsion Laboratory, NASA/Caltech
Date: Wed, 14 Oct 1992 22:26:31 GMT

In article <1992Oct14.203232.17003@nntp.uoregon.edu>, gpotts@hebb.uoregon.edu writes:
> In article <1992Oct14.013305.2688@csc.ti.com> barbaraj@csc.ti.com (Heart
> Dancer) writes:
> >In article <1992Oct13.184101.29400@elroy.jpl.nasa.gov>, cah@tyr.JPL.NASA.gov
> (Allen) writes:
> >>> Does anyone out there remember the source of the quote, "Insanity is
> >>> doing the same thing over and over again and expecting something
> >>> different to happen?" (or words to that effect).
> >
> >The last time I heard it, it was attributed to "either John Bradshaw or 
> >Earnie Larson.  I don't know who said it first."
> >
> It is from the second step section of the How it Works chapter of the Narcotics
> Anonymous Basic Text. Now, the dope fiends may have stolen it from somewhere
> else (we're like that, you know) but you will find it there.

This might make sense then, considering that Bill C quoted it.  Thanks
for a reasonable response among all the flaming.
 
*********************************************************************
the only thing that speaks the truth is the eloquence of passing time
               the spoken word is a jacket too tight
From: kingsley@hpwrce.mayfield.hp.com (Kingsley Morse)
Date: Wed, 7 Oct 1992 23:47:06 GMT
Subject: Please Help
Organization: HP Western Response Center
Newsgroups: alt.recovery

              Please answer these 9 questions and return.

1.) Do you think equal rights for men and women is generally a good idea?
Yes                  [ ]
Sometimes            [ ]
No                   [ ]
Haven't heard enough [ ]
Other                [ ]

2.) Are you pro choice?
Yes                  [ ]
Sometimes            [ ]
No                   [ ]
Haven't heard enough [ ]
Other                [ ]

3.) Are you in favor of adoption?
Yes                  [ ]
Sometimes            [ ]
No                   [ ]
Haven't heard enough [ ]
Other                [ ]

4.) Do you think men should be allowed to legally terminate their parental
rights and responsibilities before fetal viability?
Yes                  [ ]
Sometimes            [ ]
No                   [ ]
Haven't heard enough [ ]
Other                [ ]

5.) What sex are you?
Male               [ ]
Female             [ ]

6.) How old are you?
Under 18           [ ]
19 to 65           [ ]
Over 65            [ ]

7.) What religion are you?
Protestant         [ ]
Catholic           [ ]
Jewish             [ ]
Other              [ ]

8.) What political party are you affiliated with?
Democratic         [ ]
Republican         [ ]
Other              [ ]

9.) How many years of education have you completed?
Grade School       [ ]
High School        [ ]
College            [ ]
More               [ ]
From: cah@tyr.JPL.NASA.gov (Allen)
Newsgroups: alt.recovery
Subject: Insanity Definition and Pres Debate (NON-POLITICAL)
Date: 13 Oct 92 18:41:01 GMT
Organization: Jet Propulsion Laboratory, NASA/Caltech

Does anyone out there remember the source of the quote, "Insanity is
doing the same thing over and over again and expecting something
different to happen?" (or words to that effect).

I was listening to the debate on Sunday with some 12-Steppers and we
all enjoyed this particular quote.  All of us knew it and suspected it
to be recovery-oriented, but could not think of the source.  Does
anyone out there have an idea?  Go ahead, shoot me if it's the Big
Book ... :-)

 
*********************************************************************
the only thing that speaks the truth is the eloquence of passing time
               the spoken word is a jacket too tight
From: rnt@druwa.ATT.COM (Bob Thomas)
Newsgroups: alt.recovery
Subject: Re: Nicotine
Date: 7 Oct 92 14:30:25 GMT

I'm coming up on three years without nicotine (I stopped on
National Cold Turkey day in 1989).  This is my sixth
serious attempt to stop over the last nine years.  My
first serious attempt came after a good friend of mine in AA
died of heart failure at age 46.  He had a cardiac arrest
the previous December but was unable to stop smoking (he was
doing one pack of Vantages a day).  Six months later he was
dead.  I managed to stop for 30 days that time.

Over the past 14 years in AA, five friends of mine in the
program have died from smoking.  Hell, I even think Bill W.
died from emphyzema.  Right now a 44-year old friend of mine
from AA is in the cardiac ward after having a cardiac
arrest.  He's psyching himself up to stay stopped (he was doing
a pack and half of Benson & Hedges a day).  For him, what was
a hypothetical lifestyle issue has all of a sudden become a
life and death issue.

I have a lot more I'd like to say about my nicotine addiction,
but I'm out of time.  I'll try to post again soon.

Bob
From: millman@dancing.bear.com (Phillip Millman)
Newsgroups: alt.recovery
Subject: Re: How I say the Lord's Prayer
Date: 15 Oct 92 20:47:17 GMT
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1 PL6]

Eric Middlecamp (emiddlec@mora.gac.edu) wrote:
: >Why push the mountain when you can go around it??
: >
: >Phillip Millman
: 
: 
: 	Because it's easier to push the mountain!

No Just more fun!
--
Phillip Millman					millman@bear.com
The opinions expressed are those of Phillip Millman and not that of 
Bear Stearns & Co. Inc.  I think it is better that way.
From: esteward@bbseg5.isi.edu (Elaine Steward)
Newsgroups: alt.recovery
Subject: Re: :-)
Date: 15 Oct 92 14:16:17 GMT

In article <1992Oct14.021530.18584@athena.cs.uga.edu>  
heath@athena.cs.uga.edu (Terrance Heath) writes:
> 
> **** 90 DAYS OF SOBRIETY TODAY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!******
> 
> 
> *cute little dance of glee*

AND MAY YOU HAVE 90 MORE (and 90 more, and 90 more,......and 90 more)

Feels great, doesn't it?

elaine
Newsgroups: alt.recovery
From: steveh@okam.corp.sgi.com (Steve Hill)
Subject: Re: Adult Children of Alcoholics
Followup-To: alt.recovery
Organization: Silicon Graphics, Inc., Mountain View, CA, USA
Distribution: su
Date: Fri, 16 Oct 1992 19:43:49 GMT

I think that this article ought to be posted to alt.recovery and
alt.support, too.

Steve

In article <1992Oct15.200911.9446@leland.Stanford.EDU>,
kpscarr@leland.Stanford.EDU (Karen Pelton Scarr) writes:
|> Is anybody else out there interested in attending an 8-week series
|> of
|> Adult Children of Alcoholics meetings?  The reason I ask is that the
|> doctors at Cowell aren't sure they have enough people to run the
|> program.
|> Having been through some counseling, I would like to say it's really
|> helpful (and I started out quite a skeptic).  If anyone is
|> interested,
|> please contact either Dr. Herrera or Dr. Cooper at 723-3785.  The
|> first
|> session is tomorrow, Friday Oct. 16, but they'd like to know about
|> any
|> interest for next quarter, too.  Thanks.
|> 
|> P.S.  Sorry for posting this on so many bulletin boards, but I wasn't
|> sure
|> where to send the message (there ain't no "alt.alcoholics.children"
|> or
|> anything, to my knowledge).

-- 

Steve

-- 
Stephen C. Hill, CDP
{ames,decwrl}!sgi!steveh  or  steveh@corp.sgi.com
Integration Products Group
Silicon Graphics, Inc., Stop 11L-960
2011 N. Shoreline Blvd.
Mountain View, CA 94039, (415) 390-3230         Fax (415) 903-1908

Time is Nature's method of keeping us from bumping into ourselves.
From: altinbay@netcom.com (John Altinbay)
Newsgroups: alt.recovery
Subject: Re: Wendy Kaminer's book
Date: 15 Oct 92 21:06:25 GMT
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services  (408 241-9760 guest)

In article <91837@netnews.upenn.edu> crawford@ben.dev.upenn.edu (Lauren L. Crawford) writes:
>
>I haven't yet heard that anyone was offended by the book.  Have you all?
>
 I was offended both by the book and by what she said in her interview
on Fresh Air.  In the conclusion of the latter, she states that the
way things are is part of the human condition and that we just need
to live with it.

She states that she has read many books on recovery, including one
of Anne Wilson Schaef's, and concludes the same tired things:  that
recovery is a batch of whiny people blaming everything on everyone
else.  If she had indeed read Schaef's book(s), it's pretty hard
for me to imagine how she can come close to that kind of conclusion.

As to emphasizing self healing over social concerns, many people
who are not in recovery are simply accepting things as they are
(as Wendy wants us to do), thus are not participating in social
concerns.  Schaef argues that the society sells addiction, and
that most are buying into the addiction.  Only by finding
ourselves can we hope to make it better - for ourselves, and
for the world.


-- 
John Altinbay   -   altinbay@netcom.com
===============================================================
There's a spirit that guides me, a light that shines for me
My life is worth the living, I don't need to see the end.
From: juang@spock.dis.cccd.edu (Juan Gascon)
Newsgroups: alt.recovery
Subject: Help with Regional Voice Processing Hotline
Summary: Help developing 6 area code 600 group info. & Hotline.
Date: 7 Oct 92 21:40:28 GMT

Expires: 
Followup-To: Poster
Distribution: 
Organization: Coast Community College District, Costa Mesa, CA
Keywords: Voice Processing, 12-step, recovery, Hotline


 

 	Hello fellow recovering netters (and others):

	Please help us to share the gift freely given.   We in Southern
	California have found our existing 10 local area Hotlines need 
	help.  We are trying to develop a multiline system that will 
	optionally 1) give meeting information 2) be transfered to a
	live volunteer (or if they prefer a dead one :-) ) 3) be given 
	a list of activities 4) be allowed to leave a message. 5) etc.

	I have heard of V.P. boards for P.C.'s called DialLogic and
	also one from Virginia (the name escapes me).  I would like to 
	know if any of you out there in net land have any info on these 
	or other boards (expense a big factor) and/or if you know of 
	software that can make our task easier.

	Telephonics is also a challenge.  How expensive would it be to 
	have an 800 number for all of So. Cal with an estimated Volume
	upwards of 2500 calls per month at say 3 min a call.? What other 
	options do we have (ie. a line which is a local call to all of
	So. Cal. and we pay the difference)?  I hear there is a new
	700 number service from Pac Bell, Does anyone know about it?

	B.T.W. the regional office where the equipment would be kept
	is in a G.T.E area but we could (I guess) house it elsewhere
	if necessary.

	These are only a few of the many questions we have and we 
	would be very grateful for any help you can provide.  I 
	would like to hear from areas or regions that have successfully
	implemented such a system. (or if it failed why?).

	In loving service.

	Juan G.

	P.S. Please reply by e_mail and I will summarize if warranted. 
	Unless ofcourse you feel your reply is valuable to all.
Newsgroups: alt.recovery