From: owen@autodesk.com (D. Owen Rowley)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: Gay men personals...
Date: 7 Jan 93 20:23:45 GMT

In article <1993Jan7.154140.8226@spdcc.com>, dyer@spdcc.com (Steve Dyer) writes:
> I think the comments here have been a bit facile.  Not because I necessarily
> disagree with them, but that the situation is so much more complicated than
> that, and to simply reduce this to a "matter of personal preference" as if
> there might not be something else going on there, is to be open to the
> charge of cluelessness.

The inherant limitations of this medium tend to exacerbate the problems
of disscussing complex issues, and reducing particular arguments to 
certain facets doesn't always signify that the writer is ignorant
of the other factors.

I suspect that most folks don't know why they have one preference or
another. I also suspect that everyones preferences are *colored* by
racialism of one stripe or another.. ( that includes both pro and con)

> Listen, when 80% or more of the personal ads say "GWM seeks GWM", what does
> this say to men of color who might not be as discriminating?   When most of
> these GWM's have grown up in a segregated society such that even the idea
> of having sex with someone who is not their race doesn't even _occur_ to them,
> how can you reduce this simply to a matter of "personal preference"?  It's
> not "personal preference", it's usually blind acceptance of the conventions
> which they've grown up with which echo the racism in our society.  And for
> some of them, it's more blatant racism.

I've seen quite a few ads that specify GBM seeks same.
The most common qualifier seems to be age rather than race however.
How about the size queens who seek only the young and hung?

> This is not to say that you can dictate on an individual level what is
> appropriate behavior, but to refuse to look at what might be going on
> on a personal level or more systemically under the excuse that's it's
> all "personal preference" is typical white-boy cluelessness.

Ads are not always just for sex you know, in the cases where the
individual is looking for a relationship, these *qualifiers* are more
a wish-list type of thing than a negation of those who don't fit them.

> >Just like some folks out
> >there trying to say it is wrong not to be attracted to fat men. (I am
> >fat and I am not attracted to fat men.)  It is all preference, personal
> >preference.......
> 
> Yeah, yeah, self-hatred doesn't have much to do with it, does it?

I'd like to see us have a reasonable conversation about this topic.
It's one that affects me, and one that I think about a lot.

I've been heavy all my adult life, and I too am not (usually) attracted to
other heavy men. I'm sure that some of it is attributable to my 
own feelings of self worth, I don't like the way I feel or look when
I am over 230 lbs. 

I do understand the prejudice that comes with being heavy, I've 
experienced it first hand. But I also understand that I like what I like,
and that isn't always determined by what I don't like.

I've been with other heavy guys who I found attractive due to other 
factors, and I've had some fun times with them. But I also find that
I'm still bothered by the weight factor. I try to not let it affect the way
I feel about the person, but it is a complicated issue.

For me when I get to a certain size, or am with others of certain size 
it reminds me of my father who was over 380 lbs at his heaviest.
Frankly it scares me, his health problems, and the constraints on his life
were directly involved with his weight. He died at age 55.

Those who do not have a predisposition to weight gain cannot know the 
problems our society presents to those of us who do. I know I will never
be thin, but I also know that if I eat sensibly and exercise regularly
I can keep my weight at levels which I do find comfortable. 

I don't think that just because I am heavy, I am obligated to find 
heaviness attractive, thats just as much bullshit as the other.


LUX ./. owen


--
D. Owen Rowley {uunet,fernwood,sun}!autodesk!owen, owen@autodesk.com
[ EU-PHORIA: A STATE OF WELL BEING ]
Euphoria is my natural state, I do what I enjoy and an abundance 
of all good fortune comes to me for it.
Newsgroups: soc.motss