From: roger@crux.Princeton.EDU (Roger Lustig)
Subject: Re: criteria for THE HALL
Originator: news@nimaster
Reply-To: roger@astro.princeton.edu (Roger Lustig)
Organization: Princeton University
Date: Fri, 4 Sep 1992 21:24:06 GMT

In article <1992Sep4.162102.1@gallua.gallaudet.edu> rlwilliams@gallua.gallaudet.edu writes:
>In article <1992Sep4.171451.11500@Princeton.EDU>, roger@crux.Princeton.EDU (Roger Lustig) writes:
>> In article <1992Sep4.120817.1@gallua.gallaudet.edu> rlwilliams@gallua.gallaudet.edu writes:
>>>Hi,
>>>	I was thinking about what should qualify a person to be inducted 
>>>into Baseball's Hall of Fame. Here is what I came up with:

>> Quick question: should an inductee meet *all* of these criteria?
>> If so, set up a basic framework and compare it to the current Hall.
>> This is the best test of your approach.
>======================
>yep. should meet them all... if they meet one, they don't belong...
>======================

OK.  So let's see a draft of your Hall!  Or jsut list the guys you 
want to throw out, and the ones you want to add.

>>>1. At some time during his career he should be generally thought of as the 
>>>best in the game at his positon. This forexample would eliminate somone 
>>>like Don Sutton who basically hung around a loooong time and yet assure 
>>>someone like the Wizard of Oz entrance.

>> Tough luck, then, if you played RF during Babe Ruth's career, or LF
>> while Musial and Williams were around.  No matter how good you were...

>=================

>Ok, ok this one needs some work... perhaps some modification. I just don't 
>like to see mediocre performers arrive in the hall because of simple 
>longevity.

How many such players are there who play a long time and then get voted
into the hall despite little distinction?  For that matter, who plays
20 years in the bigs with little distinction?  
>=====================
>>>2. He should put up some impressive career numbers: 300 wins, 400 - 500 
>>>hr, 3,000 hits etc or in the neighborhood.

>> How many such numbers?  Also, is Ozzie going to do this?  Everyone can
>> come up with one or two nice numbers; which ones should we pick?  And
>> should the numbers be the same for shortstops and catchers and first
>> basemen?  That doesn't sound right.

>-------------------------------------------------------------------
>I'm sure Ozzie ranks up there in defensive statistics... put outs, assists, 
>as someone said, 12 straight gold gloves...  This is designed to keep 
>people like Don gullett out who had one or two phenomenal years and then 
>were never seen again.

Don Gullett is kept out *now*.  He only played 9 years.  Besides, do
you see anyone voting for him?  Sounds like a solution in search of 
a problem...

As for Gold Gloves, yes, Ozzie is a wonderful fielder, but Gold Gloves
are generally a pretty clueless award.  (Also, there's only one per league
per year, so the second-best SS -- or the one the voters like second-best--
gets nothing.)

Now, what do we do with these numbers?  Most people who sling stats around
simply don't know what they're doing.  Who gets to decide?  Who does the
analysis, the choosing of critical stats and critical levels?  How do
we adjust for parks?  This is a *very* difficult problem.

Roger