From: alpinist@eskimo.celestial.com (David Butler)
Newsgroups: seattle.general
Subject: Re: Travelling armed
Date: 25 Jul 92 19:05:22 GMT
Distribution: seattle
Organization: =>ESKIMO NORTH (206) 367-3837 SEATTLE, WA.<=

In article <3102@bcstec.ca.boeing.com> waymire@bcstec.ca.boeing.com (Richard Waymire) writes:
>In article <1992Jul22.190322.21485@eskimo.celestial.com> alpinist@eskimo.celestial.com (David Butler) writes:

>>     This argument doesn't work.  The MAJORITY of murders in this country
>>are commited by people known to the victim in a fit of rage.  Not by "Bad
>>Guys" who would have owned guns illegally.  If guns were taken away from
>>the "Good Guys" (ie Normal Population) then the guy in the above example
>>wouldn't have had one in a dangerous drunken rage.

>>     I do happen to support individual rights to own a gun.  But I also
>>realize that the Murder rate (gun violence rate) would go down if guns
>>were illegal.

>Oh, well, here we go... The MAJORITY of murders in this country... I'm glad	you have been studying the FBI's Uniform Crime Statistics this week.  I believe
>what you are trying to quote is that the MAJORITY of murders in this country
>are committed by people who are KNOWN to the victim.  If I, Joe Crip, kill my
>rival, John Blood dow the block, I fit into that category, because John knew
>who I was.  Now there's a meaningful statistic if I've ever heard one.  How
>'bout you learn what you're talking about, study the facts, and then reply
>with some thoughtfulness.  (Try reading talk.politics.guns.  If you can see
>through the flame wars, it's very informative.)

     I've gotten a number of replys by people taking exception to the idea
of what is meant by the majority of victims knew their murderers.  The replys
have been interesting and informative.

     But still, I wonder, nobody is really trying to make the ridiculous
statement that the proliferation of guns in this society has nothing to do
with the murder rate, are they?  That does seem to be the general impression
that some people are trying to express. 

     And still I will stand by my statement that the gun murder rate would
go down if guns were illegal.  That is an obviously true statement.  The point
of contention would be to what degree it would go down.  From the statistics
I've seen I would estimate that the rate would drop by at least 1/4 and
probably by more than a half.  But we will never know for certain unless
guns were illegalized.  I hope that doesn't happen, but I would support
restrictions on gun ownership.  (What the heck is wrong with a waiting
period on a hand gun purchase anyway?)

>My co-worker tells me this post looks RUDE, and that is not my intention.  
>This fact (about known to the victim) is being misused all over this country,
>and it gets rather frustrating to see it twisted so.

     I didn't think your post is rude.  There's nothing wrong with having an
opinion and trying to express that idea to people who see things differently.
I have to agree, especially after reading the articles posted by Ken Wood (I
believe), that the murderer being known by the victim doesn't necessarily
imply innocent mild citizens in a fit or rage, but I also don't think that
because someone is only a mild aquantance or that murderers have a history
of violence that it necessarily means that the murder wasn't commited in an
unusual fit of rage or that the majority of murders would be likely to
obtain guns illegaly.

     It is much easier to defend yourself against someone violent who doesn't
have a gun.  If someone pulls out a 6 inch knife and I grab an 18 inch tire
iron from under my car seat we are fairly evenly matched.  I can outrun 
someone with a knife or baseball bat.  (You can't outrun a bullet) It is
much easier to deflect a blow from a weapon where a person must get within
reaching distance to use it.

-- 
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* Dave                          *               The Alpinist               *
* alpinist@eskimo.celestial.com *            DARE to be stoopid!           *
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Newsgroups: seattle.general