HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: sara@castle.ed.ac.uk (Swamp Thing)
Newsgroups: soc.bi
Subject: Re: whatever . . .
Date: 11 Sep 92 21:35:08 GMT
Organization: News Addicts

cjmchale@dsg.cs.tcd.ie (Ciaran McHale) writes:

>In reply to "The Swamp Thing" (Sara), you say:

>>Here's an ardent flame for you: looks like your "resources" might equate to
>>your pussy, and you have put a price on it: Behave thus, or none of This.

>Am I correct in thinking that you are "accusing" Sara of being a
>prositute? (i) I fail to understand how you came to the conclusion that
>she has put a price on having sex with her. (ii) Perhaps you could
>explain to me why you think the term "prostitute" is insulting.

I was somewhat surprised by Eric (Quantum Chromo) Dynamic's response
here; all I said was "And that's all my resources you get", in which I
thought it was clear enough (OK OK I know this is usenet and often our
postings don't contain the clarity we think they do) that I meant that
my *posting* was all the resources he was going to get.  Neither did I
say I was going to charge him for my posting.  Neither was I telling him
how to behave; I was merely saying what I thought of his posting, which
wasn't much.  Neither has my view changed with all this ballyhoo.  And I
didn't even want to grant him as much resources as *this* posting
either.  

If you ask me (or even if you don't) the whole thing is one of those
ridiculous storms in teacups that certainly shouldn't be wasting
peoples' valuable sleeping resources.

Sara
-- 
 >{8-)     Sara Hopkins     (-8}<              _____^__
 Geography Dept.  Edinburgh Uni.  Drummond St. \ OOO/ / The Thing
 Edinburgh,  EH8  9XP,  UK. +44 (0/31) 650 2662 \++/ /   From
 >{8-) sara@geovax.ed.ac.uk (-8}<   ** nice **   \/\/ The Swamp
Newsgroups: soc.bi
From: ecsd@tfs.com (Eric C. S. Dynamic)
Subject: Re: whatever . . .
Organization: TFS
Date: Mon, 14 Sep 1992 17:52:28 GMT

nsn@ee.mu.OZ.AU (Nick Nicholas) writes:
>...
>Well I've had my fill of feeling guilty, and I've had my fill of feeling
>rejected. How the fuck am I supposed to be proud to be bi, if I'm cringing
>at being male? ...

Here is the first (?) person to quote me back accurately. Thank you.

>...
>"This is *my* pain, and I don't care if telling you about it lowers my image 
>in your eyes. I can live without your respect, because my business now is 
>to earn *self*-respect."

And again.

>And, while I speed to distance myself from what Eric said subsequently,

I already apologized for being a jerkshit in hassling people about things
they weren't saying. Can we please turn things around to begin asking
what people mean, if we are not sure? Hostility notwithstanding, a thorough
investigation of my philosophy will show that I like people, I love people,
I want to be loved, I hate people who hurt people, and so far as I still
do (hurt people) out of ignorance of whatever kind, I feel I must address
those things in myself. I also feel that being bashed by a person who is
not in touch with their OWN feelings is not fair, and that I'm not
responsible for THEIR lack of awareness. My writing may be difficult,
and my metaphors bizarre (to some, anyway), but I know what my values are
and they aren't things people would distance themselves from, I don't
figure.
Attitudes misconstrued out of things I said may have been (things to
distance oneself from), but then I'm not the original author of the new
(misconstrued) images.

>a lot of what he said in his longer response to Ciaran agreed with me.
>The politics of exclusion is wrong - it's wrong for me, anyway. ...

I want to start bringing males back to themselves, my impression is here
is one person prompted by what I wrote. That is fantastic! And I feel I
have made a worthwhile contribution.

You might consider I am in Berkeley CA, rife with Political Correctness,
which in some manifestations is the politics of X being free to characterize
to others what Y said (and don't bother to listen to Y about it), and then
taking them to task for it. It stifles debate.
Newsgroups: soc.bi
From: tweaver@nyx.cs.du.edu (T.C.Weaver)
Subject: Re: Language is a virus (was: Various)
X-Disclaimer: Nyx is a public access Unix system run by the University
	of Denver for the Denver community.  The University has neither
	control over nor responsibility for the opinions of users.
Organization: Nyx, Public Access Unix at U. of Denver Math/CS dept.
Date: Mon, 14 Sep 92 22:51:07 GMT

idx009@cck.coventry.ac.uk (the Crisco Kid) writes:
> cen@vax.oxford.ac.uk writes:
>>C'mon, you like Laurie Anderson's rendition of language-as-virus. I just think
>>Ted has a particularly unsuccessful mutation here. Or maybe it's not a virus,
>>transmitting codes and self-replicating. Maybe it's cancer: the oncogenes are
>>in full swing, and the bloated unspecialised cells are crowding out functional
>>ones.
>
>But it wasn't Laurie Anderson's notion originally, was it?  I've got a
>hunch that it was William Burroughs, 

I only said that Sara likes Laurie's rendition. I wouldn't be so sure she's
fond of Burroughs, though Anderson certainly credits Mr Gravel-voice for the
idea.

Tanaqui

"Silence is golden; words are made of lead
 And in the alchemy of love some things are better left unsaid"    Shocked
From: sr09@ns1.cc.lehigh.edu (SIMON NICHOLAS RUSSELL)
Newsgroups: soc.bi
Subject: Re: Disturbed
Date: 15 Sep 92 12:10:27 GMT
Organization: Lehigh University


>BTW if you read the text carefully, is Chaucer hinting that Nicolas might
>be bi? Our English teacher certainly was :-)
>
>///Peter
>
What? Your English teacher was bi, or was hinting that hende Nicholas was bi?
Tut, tut, Peter.  I guess it's possible.  He does, after all, volunteer
himself for Absolon's tongue, with some expectation, I think. And, the fact
that Absolon revenges himself by taking a red-hot plough-share to Nicholas's
"naked ers" is vaguely reminiscent of the method by which Edward II was
executed (in 1327--about seventy years before "The Miller's Tale was
written)--a mode of death billed as appropriate to the king's iniquitous
lifestyle.  I wonder if this has been written on?  Hmm. Could be an article
in this....

Simon.
-- 

***************************************************************************
* Simon Morgan-Russell    "I love to lie o' both sides o' th' bed myself" *
* SR09@LEHIGH.EDU          Middleton & Dekker's "The Roaring Girl" (1608) *
***************************************************************************
From: gtoal@ibmpcug.co.uk (Graham Toal)
Newsgroups: soc.bi
Subject: Re: More fun photos
Date: 6 Sep 92 13:49:18 GMT
Organization: The IBM PC User Group, UK.

In article <1992Sep06.043643.10535@rat.csc.calpoly.edu> pclary@mushroom.csc.calpoly.edu (Ellen Clary) writes:
>No, not of Norwich.  (Wasn't there <pout>.)
>They're of our illustrious visitors (and some of our lovely bayareaites).

Yes yes, but *where are the gifs*??!  You're just teasing us with all these
goodies that we can't see!

Pretty please? Nibble, nibble?

G
--
From: bethan@cogsci.ed.ac.uk (Bethan Davies)
Newsgroups: soc.bi
Subject: Re: Our heroes!
Date: 15 Sep 92 16:30:59 GMT
Followup-To: soc.bi, alt.polyamory
Distribution: soc.bi
Organization: Centre for Cognitive Science, Edinburgh, UK

In article <1992Sep14.231458.19814@mnemosyne.cs.du.edu> tweaver@nyx.cs.du.edu (T.C.Weaver) writes:
>Charles was wearing purple? I *knew* it was the Bi colour ;-)
>

But of course. My whole wardrobe has a strong undercurrent of purple...

>More seriously, just how does Geraldo get away with dismissing bi- teenage
>troubles like that? Jeez...

Could you imagine a 'Kilroy' on the subject...? No doubt it'd be just as
bad...


BTW, I don't suppose there are any truly kind (read: terminally stupid :)
people out there, who would be willing to send me an audio tape of the
programme? It would be a killer for my linguistic analysis....


Bethan (Desperately Seeking Dialogue)


And yes, I am serious. It has to be more interesting than the data I'm
using at the moment :(
From: h431@quads.uchicago.edu (heather e blair)
Newsgroups: soc.bi
Subject: Geraldo show on bi-folk
Date: 11 Sep 92 17:40:15 GMT
Reply-To: h431@midway.uchicago.edu
Organization: University of Chicago Computing Organizations

Yeek!  I just saw that Geraldo show on bisexuals.  Charles (of the net)
and his partner, Janice, were there.  Lorrain Hutchins valiantly tried
to be the voice of reason, which was hard since Geraldo was playing to
the (mostly female, mall-haired, and heavily made-up) audience's fears that
they were married to Secret Bi Men who would give them HIV.  He included
in the line-up, Marie, whose husband was a Secret Bi Man who gave her HIV,
Jane, a bi-woman in an open marriage; Carolyn, a woman who had recently
divorced a bi man (she was comfortable with his bi-ness, but not his
alcoholism).  And last and least the evil "Tom Smith" author of "Half
Straight: my Secret Life as a Bisexual".  Tom Smith is a Secret Bi Man
who does not practice safe sex with any of his partners.

Jane and "Tom Smith" were in weird disguises and sunglasses (hey something
to add to the sunglasses thread).

The audience mostly wanted to argue with Charles and Janice about their
open marriage.  Geraldo wanted to argue that you were either homo or het.
Tom Smith dodged anyone's questions about his dishonesty with his wife
of 45 years, by whining about how your sexual orientation is fixed and
not "curable".

Lorraine was almost left out before the questions started, and had to butt
in to get heard at all.  When she started talking about "heterosexism"
the audience acted like my dog does when I try to explain the difference
between the Stoics and the Epicureans to her.  Geraldo either was equally
stupid or did a good acting job.

Looks like us bi's have a lot of educational scut-work to do.

I want to thank Charles, Janice, and Lorraine for being brave bi activists.

Ugh!  I hate mainstream, popular culture.  I want to escape into a hole 
and listen to every single one of Beethoven's piano sonatas until I feel
human again.
-- 

- Heather Blair       h431@midway.uchicago.edu
Newsgroups: soc.bi
From: osmith@acorn.co.uk (Owen Smith)
Newsgroups: soc.bi
Subject: Re: Our heroes!
Date: 15 Sep 92 17:22:28 GMT
Organization: Acorn Computers Ltd, Cambridge, England

In article <1992Sep14.192738.4232@nwnexus.WA.COM> elf@halcyon.com (Elf
Sternberg) writes:

Lots of stuff about the Geraldo show. I don't know whether to laugh or cry.
I want to laugh because Geraldo and the audience are so stupid. I want to
cry for the same reason. And whoever it was that said Charles expressed
himself amazingly well was right. There's one bit I particularly liked:


>UAM 9(M):  This question is for the couple in the center, Charles and
>Janice.  In what path are you leading your children at this point?
>
>Charles:  I don't understand the question.
>
>UAM 9(M):  What sexual preference are you encouraging?

Stupidest question I ever heard.

>Charles:  He's not old enough to tell us yet.

Brilliant answer.

>Geraldo:  Alright, I'll give you a hypothetical.  Is it a he or a she?
>
>Charles:  He.  Well, actually, he's not old enough to tell us if he's a
>he or she, either, but.

Quick thinking by Charles confuses hell out of the clueless even more, plus
a quick plug for us TV/TG/TS people. :-) This guy is amazing.

>Geraldo:  I bet you could tell, though.

God this guy's stupid!

>Okay, he's sixteen years old
>and he says "Dad, I wanna be a bisexual."  You say "That's cool?"
>
>Charles:  I say, "Are you or aren't you?  What is this 'want to be
>bisexual?'  It's your sexual orientation."  If he knows what sexual
>orientation is, if he knows he attracted to both sexes, he's bisexual.

Another excellent answer. Three cheers for Charles! (Not forgetting the
other panelists, most of whom made positive contributions.)


Owen.
Newsgroups: soc.bi
From: TXK025@maccvm.corp.mot.com (Eddie Chandler)
Subject: Internet dial up number for UK
Organization: Motorola
Date: 9 Sep 1992 07:38:38 CDT


Due to SYS-ADM censorship, I am unable to browse ANY of the alt.
groups - which (of course) means that I am missing one hell of a lot
of banter.

Does anyone, therefore, know of a UK phone number that I could use to
dial into the INTERNET and access these wonderful groups?

If any of you can help, please e-mail me or leave a message on soc.bi

Thanks in anticipation.
From: angi@festival.ed.ac.uk (Angi Lamb)
Newsgroups: soc.bi
Subject: Re: whatever . . .
Date: 15 Sep 92 14:59:43 GMT

mlloyd@castle.ed.ac.uk (M Lloyd) writes:

|Pride never did it for me - or certainly not pride in the labels people
|could attach to me, like so much product.  If I could split a hair, I'd
|say I was happy to be male, but I'm never proud to be a man.  The latter,
|to me, refers to society's expectations of me.  I'm (roughly) unavoidably
|male, and comfortable with that.  I just don't want the package that
|gets pushed at me under the name "manhood", and am never proud when
|I see myself acting that way.

Substitute woman for man here and i could have said this.  I aim to be
me and want others to be themselves without fear and with joy.  I relish
others' individuality and diversity. 

Angi
From: ecsd@tfs.com (Eric C. S. Dynamic)
Newsgroups: soc.bi
Subject: Re: whatever . . .
Date: 12 Sep 92 13:16:19 GMT
Organization: TFS

The famous muffy@remarque.berkeley.edu (Muffy Barkocy) writes:
>Ellen did *NOT* say that the man was intentionally ignored, much less
>"rejected." ...
>So, what exactly are you angry about?

This has all been cleared up, presumably. (Am I really trying to get
out of this newsgroup...?)
I said I fucked up because - I think I recall, not an Ellen note,
but a quote in another letter of her last two lines. And there's
copious mail including my apology.

At work I read my mail spool file directly, usually back to front,
so people get answered in reverse order of what they sent thru time.

The famous Muffy, indeed. Famous "net-wide".
Yea, & oh shit - read it as a compliment. Happy sprinkling
of smileys all over the place ... :) :) etc.
Newsgroups: soc.bi
From: twpierce@unix.amherst.edu (Tim Pierce)
Subject: Re: Geraldo - September 11 - Bisexuality - It's official!
Organization: Amherst College, Amherst MA
Date: Sun, 13 Sep 1992 06:00:40 GMT

In article <37735@sdcc12.ucsd.edu> jclark@sdcc3.ucsd.edu (John Clark) writes:
>In article <1992Sep5.025846.6728@fivenine.apple.com> haynes@fivenine.apple.com writes:
>+The Geraldo show on Bisexuality with me, my sweetie, Lorraine
>+Hutchins, and that-slime-Tom-Smith, will be broadcast on Friday
>+September 11th.
>
>I'm not convinced that going on 'Geraldo' is a great way to present
>alternative life styles.

Probably not.  As long as he's doing a show on bisexuality, though, we
might as well get as many good people on as we can, just so he doesn't
use the dregs of humanity for his subjects.  "Damage control," Robyn
Ochs called it.

-- 
____ Tim Pierce                / "I don't know how much support NAMBLA
\  / twpierce@unix.amherst.edu /  has in the gay community."
 \/ (BITnet: TWPIERCE@AMHERST) /   -- Clayton Cramer, August 1992
Newsgroups: soc.bi
From: tweaver@nyx.cs.du.edu (T.C.Weaver)
Subject: Re: Disturbed
X-Disclaimer: Nyx is a public access Unix system run by the University
	of Denver for the Denver community.  The University has neither
	control over nor responsibility for the opinions of users.
Organization: Nyx, Public Access Unix at U. of Denver Math/CS dept.
Date: Sun, 6 Sep 92 22:48:02 GMT

 pclary@mushroom.csc.calpoly.edu (Ellen Clary) writes:
>tweaver@nyx.cs.du.edu (T.C.Weaver) wrote...

[stuff about Christianity and suicide, which I might get around to continuing
once I have my copy of _Biathanatos_ to hand, & Ellen has the relevant box]

>>Though I love sports of air and water, several of which are life-threatening,
>>and not banned (yet).
>Which sports?
>Tanaqui likes outdoor sports???  The same Tanaqui who doesn't particularly
>like sunlight?  Or is the lack of sunlight what makes these sports
>life-threatening?

hehe. I wear shades in sunlight, and lots of the yummy free suncreams my doctor
prescribes. Then I go sailing in a Mirror dinghy appropriately named _If&When_
(hey, it's in Plymouth..) - didn't get to see much sun the day I decided to
take her out in the Channel and a storm which the radio didn't foresee (but
about which I had a bit of a niggling feeling) blew up to about force 8-9!!

When Merry takes his hanglider out to Brat Tor, I beg a go or two.

I also like canoeing, abseiling, flinging myself out of a plane (with 'chute),
bungee jumping (never actually done this. Yet), sailing in bigger boats than
_If&When_ (like my English teacher's yacht...): if there's air or water (or
preferably both - swimming is OK, I guess, but lacks a certain oomph) involved,
then I probably approve.

I was heartbroken that the only way to get a pilot's license without mortgaging
the rest of my life was to join the University society appropriate to it - &
they required perfect vision. Damn!

Has anybody got a high-paying job for an Oxford graduate in English? Thought not

Tanaqui, Member of the Mile High Club, too |-)

Newsgroups: soc.bi
From: cjmchale@dsg.cs.tcd.ie (Ciaran McHale)
Subject: Re: More fun photos
Organization: DSG, Dept. of Computer Science, Trinity College Dublin
Date: Wed, 9 Sep 1992 10:39:09 GMT

In <1992Sep8.113013.49641@ccvax.ucd.ie> pflynn@ccvax.ucd.ie
(Peter Flynn, Official Muffin-sampler) writes:
>pclary@mushroom.csc.calpoly.edu (Ellen Clary) writes:
>> Any volunteers with a scanner?
>
>Me :-) but alas it's only B&W, bought for OCR, altho it does monochrome GIFs
>OK (pause for thought: bichrome GIFs?)

Simple. You use whatever GIF viewing software you have, but with the
foreground colour set to blue and the background colour to pink (or visa
versa).


Ciaran.
-- 
Ciaran McHale                                                             ----
Department of Computer Science, Trinity College, Dublin 2, Ireland.       \bi/
Telephone: +353-1-7021539 FAX: +353-1-772204 email: cjmchale@dsg.cs.tcd.ie \/
From: cen@vax.oxford.ac.uk
Newsgroups: soc.bi
Subject: Re: Disturbed
Date: 11 Sep 92 00:07:37 GMT
Organization: Oxford University VAX 6620


 sr09@ns1.cc.lehigh.edu (SIMON NICHOLAS RUSSELL) writes:

[Seminar on hermaphroditism]
Tanaqui:
>>With the article on hermaphroditism in Shakespeare's time, as relevant to his
>>comedies, being obligatory? I can provide references - fascinating stuff about
>>a rather well-endowed serving maid who'd been sleeping with her lady getting
>>her gender reassigned as male in order to marry (irreversible assignation),
>>inter alia.

Simon: 
>  Yes, please.  One of my projects at the moment is an exploration of the
>  discourse of hermaphroditism in the Renaissance/Restoration, and how it
>  intersects with other "confusion of gender" issues such as cross-dressing and
>  sexual preference.  I know that there are a number of documented cases of
>  hermaphroditism during this period (and many hermaphrodites displayed
>  alongside elephants and camels as "circus" exhibits...), and any stuff you
>  might have covering 1550-1725 would be most gratefully received. I'm building
>  up quite a collection!

Well, I can only recall the Shakespeare article off-hand. I'll email you the
refs. & my own summary, if you like. Then we can discuss the relevant plays |-)
 
> My dear, I never go anywhere without my unbowdlerised Rochester!  And, to
> balance our curriculum, we must also have some of Aphra Behn's delightfully
> dirty poetry.

Ah, if you're to include Aphra Behn and Rochester, you can't omit _The Rover_.
 
>>I think a joint chair is essential for such a crucial field. Simon?
> 
> Definitely.  The department would need the both of us to get complete
> coverage!  We could split the salary and open a fabulous salon.

Ah, don't forget the travel obligations |-)

Tanaqui
From: pclary@mushroom.csc.calpoly.edu (Ellen Clary)
Newsgroups: soc.bi
Subject: Re: Disturbed
Date: 6 Sep 92 15:33:18 GMT
Organization: Cal Poly, San Luis Obispo, CA - aka Barnum & Bailey

tweaver@nyx.cs.du.edu (T.C.Weaver) wrote...
>I fail to see why suicide is so stigmatised, though, unless it's the reason
>Donne argues in _Biathanatos_, that the State need its happy little worker
>units.
This is probably a very strong reason, though some gov'ts base their
anti-suicide laws on religious teaching.  This is interesting because
religions often have the same sort of self interest that gov'ts have.
[Ellen goes piling through boxes in search of some notes...]
[Damn can't find them.  So I won't go into too much detail.]
Early christians (this alread is over stated - there is a specific
time period...) had such a strong belief in martyrdom, that _some_
of them were quite suicidal.  There were instances of children daring 
Roman guards to strike them down.  These instances happened often
enough to alarm one of the church authorities (if this keeps up we won't 
have anybody left.)  (I think this authority was St Augustine, but xians
weren't being persecuted nearly as much during Augustine's lifetime,
so I'm not sure.)  So, this church authority added a prohibition against 
suicide to christian dogma.  

>Though I love sports of air and water, several of which are life-threatening,
>and not banned (yet).
Which sports?
Tanaqui likes outdoor sports???  The same Tanaqui who doesn't particularly
like sunlight?  Or is the lack of sunlight what makes these sports
life-threatening?

Ellen
(Apologies for any typos.  I'm using a terminal emulator from hell
this week.)
From: pflynn@ccvax.ucd.ie (Peter Flynn, Official Muffin-sampler)
Newsgroups: soc.bi
Subject: Re: Disturbed
Date: 9 Sep 92 01:52:15 GMT
Organization: University College Dublin

In article <Bu9yr5.5KK@news.larc.nasa.gov>, kludge@grissom.larc.nasa.gov ( Scott Dorsey) writes:
> In article <iw.715973411@tosser> iw@tosser.Rational.COM (Sults) writes:
>>tweaver@nyx.cs.du.edu (T.C.Weaver) writes:
>>
>>>Tanaqui, Member of the Mile High Club, too |-)
>>
>>An innocent question - what exactly counts as membership to the Mile 
>>High Club.
> 
> Commercial airliners count, I would imagine.  Do we get extra credit
> for biplanes?  (And no, it wasn't worth it and I won't do it again).
      ^^
Well, they'd have to, wouldn't they :-)

Does giving and receiving a blowjob in the back row of a Fokker Friendship
count? Or is it a het definition implying M-F penetrative sex?

> kludge@grissom.larc.nasa.gov 
                      ^^^^
And what about fucking in a space shuttle? Or an Apollo capsule?

///Peter
From: cjmchale@dsg.cs.tcd.ie (Ciaran McHale)
Newsgroups: soc.bi
Subject: Brief Aside (Was: whatever . . .)
Date: 11 Sep 92 10:11:53 GMT
Organization: DSG, Dept. of Computer Science, Trinity College Dublin

In <BuDJB8.Js7@news.larc.nasa.gov> kludge@grissom.larc.nasa.gov
(Scott Dorsey) writes:
>>[...]
>Whoa, whoa!  Stop right there, while we are on the subject of offensive
>generalizations.

Yes, folks. It is true. Scott Dorsey and I are the one and the same
person. Shit! I knew I shold have remembered to post that article under
the "Ciaran" username, but I slipped up bad.


Ciaran.
-- 
Ciaran McHale                                                             ----
Department of Computer Science, Trinity College, Dublin 2, Ireland.       \bi/
Telephone: +353-1-7021539 FAX: +353-1-772204 email: cjmchale@dsg.cs.tcd.ie \/