HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.words-l
Date:         Sat, 11 Apr 1992 06:39:16 CDT
 <WORDS-L%UGA.bitnet@VTVM2.CC.VT.EDU>
From:         "Natalie Maynor" <maynor%RA.MSSTATE.EDU@VTVM2.CC.VT.EDU>
Subject:      Disconfirm?
Comments: To: words-l@uga.cc.uga.edu

I just remembered something else that I meant to post yesterday.
I can't give you the exact sentence because I don't have the book
at home, but yesterday my students and I in Sociolinguistics were
pondering the use of the word "disconfirm" by the author of their
textbook (Ronald Wardhaugh).  He said something about some theory
that somebody was trying to "disconfirm" or couldn't "disconfirm"
or something like that.  Our conclusion was that he probably meant
"disprove."  We had fun trying to decide whether something could be
"disconfirmed."  I think maybe it's possible in certain odd situations.
Say, for example, somebody comes up with evidence to confirm something
and then discovers that there's something wrong with the evidence.
Wouldn't that discovery disconfirm in the sense of revoking the
erroneous confirmation?  But that was not the context for what
Wardhaugh said.  I've found several examples of odd word choice in
that textbook.  I think Wardhaugh is Canadian -- that may be why he
uses peculiar language. ;-)
   --Natalie (maynor@ra.msstate.edu)
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X-VMS-Cc: AHARTFIE
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.words-l
Date:         Thu, 9 Apr 1992 00:31:00 EDT
 <WORDS-L%UGA.bitnet@VTVM2.CC.VT.EDU>
From:         Adam M Hartfield <AHARTFIE%DREW.DREW.EDU@VTVM2.CC.VT.EDU>
Subject:      Re: music-math relationship
Comments: To: WORDS-L@uga.cc.uga.edu

>Unfortunately I did not realise that the requirements in US universities
>would be different. In summer I am going to take a remedial course called
>"How to listen" or some such. If I don't make head or tail of it, then I
>guess I'll just have to shift to economics.
>
>tushar

How odd, I say !  I'm taking a course called "The Enjoyment of Music"
next semester.  Should be easy, as I'm somewhat familiar of Western
"Classical" music, which is the emphasis.  But unlike you, Tushar, I
doubt I'll shift to econ.  Maybe a psych or sociology course, but not
economics.

--Adam
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.words-l
Date:         Sun, 12 Apr 1992 18:49:33 CDT
 <WORDS-L%UGA.bitnet@VTVM2.CC.VT.EDU>
From:         "Natalie Maynor" <maynor%RA.MSSTATE.EDU@VTVM2.CC.VT.EDU>
Subject:      Re: Understatement of the Year

>      As for passing customs on the way out, there are rules about what
> one can take with one (an excess of cash, I think over 5 or 10
> thousand) must be reported.  It is also a time to declare that you are
> taking things with you that the US restricts importation of.

After I logged off while ago, I kept thinking that there obviously must
be a U.S. customs gate when leaving the country -- for various reasons.
I guess it's just one more gate in the mess of lines and gates.

>      And for the question about how a country could enforce a ban on
> going to another country, all the country would have to do is examine
> the stamps in your passport on the way back home and deny access.

How many times has a customs agent actually looked at the stamps in
your passport?  I don't remember a single time.  Besides, it seems
these days that most countries don't bother stamping passports anyway.
I guess some of the ones considered most "dangerous" would be the ones
to stamp passports, though.
   --Natalie (maynor@ra.msstate.edu)
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.words-l
Date:         Thu, 16 Apr 1992 17:09:24 CDT
 <WORDS-L%UGA.bitnet@VTVM2.CC.VT.EDU>
From:         Tushar Samant <tushar%ZAPHOD.UCHICAGO.EDU@VTVM2.CC.VT.EDU>
Subject:      So, Mr Fred ?

>Tushie, I think it would be kind of you to let the list know of our
>long and devoted acquaintance;

WHY you are bringing it up over here ?

>and shukriyaar for your support!

Use dialect right. Are you forgetting happy days in Bombay ?

tushar

PS What is this King Lear yara ? When was he ruling ? Was he telling
things in drunken and incoherent way ? Don't give me scholar-wolar
things, dost.
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Newsgroups: bit.listserv.words-l
Date:         Mon, 6 Apr 1992 16:51:54 -0500
 <WORDS-L%UGA.bitnet@VTVM2.CC.VT.EDU>
From:         Steve Portigal <stevep%SNOWHITE.CIS.UOGUELPH.CA@VTVM2.CC.VT.EDU>
Subject:      Re: Gleanings (38)
Comments: To: WORDS-L@uga.cc.uga.edu

>10) CACM (Steve P.)

    Communications of the ACM, the monthly magazine published by the
Association for Computing Machinery which is the professional organization
for Computer Scientists.  Not quite a scholarly journal, although it does
feature many papers.
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU
Original_To:  BITNET%"WORDS-L@UGA.BITNET"
Original_cc:  WHITERJ
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.words-l
Date:         Tue, 7 Apr 1992 23:26:00 MDT
 <WORDS-L%UGA.bitnet@VTVM2.CC.VT.EDU>
From:         The Ronin <WHITERJ%MSCD.BITNET@VTVM2.CC.VT.EDU>
Subject:      Re: Conversation Stoppers

Sayeth        Frank Peters <fwp@CC.MSSTATE.EDU>

>                                                      When I tell them
> that I haven't used a PC as anything but a terminal in over a year they
> decide I don't really know anything about computers after all.

     That more closely matches with my experiences.

The Ronin
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Newsgroups: bit.listserv.words-l
Date:         Sat, 11 Apr 1992 09:56:21 EST
 <WORDS-L%UGA.bitnet@VTVM2.CC.VT.EDU>
From:         Evelyn Duncan <R3EJD%AKRONVM%VM1.CC.UAKRON.EDU@VTVM2.CC.VT.EDU>
Subject:      Since Bitnet is down, I'm using Internet
Comments: To: words-l@uga.cc.uga.edu

When I came here this morning, I thought there would be the usual 75-98
pieces of mail in my reader, but there were only 4.  What's up, I thought.
Bitnet down again?  So, I checked, and, yes, it's down at ohstvma.
Natalie, if Frank doesn't let Bernard have access, ohstvma needs Bernard.
He could get a job there.

Answers to various questions:
  Left-handed?  No, but my brother is ambidextrous.
  Legible writing?  Yes, too legible. :)  I write the same way I was
  taught as a child.  My writing looks like the examples in the books.
  Travel to clambake?  I hope.  If I can get the money.

Evelyn
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.words-l
Date:         Tue, 7 Apr 1992 14:43:44 EDT
 <WORDS-L%UGA.bitnet@VTVM2.CC.VT.EDU>
From:         Don Thornton <DTHORNTN%BROWNVM.BROWN.EDU@VTVM2.CC.VT.EDU>
Subject:      Re: Odder and Odder
Comments: To: words-l@uga.cc.uga.edu

Where in Southern France?    ,
                           Pezanas (that doesn't look like it's spelled
correctly) is nice. You won't have to wait, just register at University
and get an account since the tuition is so low.
                                                Aix en Provence could
be a good place for that.

Why in southern France? I bet some people are dying to get to the same
state that New Orleans is in. Or even the same state that you are in.

Don (terminal degree in my field ... standing out there too)
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.words-l
Date:         Wed, 15 Apr 1992 16:57:28 CDT
 <WORDS-L%UGA.bitnet@VTVM2.CC.VT.EDU>
From:         "Natalie Maynor" <maynor%RA.MSSTATE.EDU@VTVM2.CC.VT.EDU>
Subject:      Re: Reflections on the matter of language change

>Try this on for size:  Imagine a society that started using the word JEW
>as a synonym for "evil, dirty rotten, no-good corrupter of our values"
>Are you saying you can separate the 'linguistic change' from the application or
>usage?

What's wrong in that case is not in language.  It's in the attitudes of
the speakers.  As I've said repeatedly, I'm not talking about what's
"right" or "wrong" in a culture.  I'm talking about what works or does
not work in a language.  A language reflects the needs and desires of
its speakers.  If the speakers choose to use the word JEW that way,
it's easy to make moral judgments about them.  You can disapprove all
you want to of their need or desire to use language in whatever ways
they use it.  The language itself is not good or bad, right or wrong.

> >I agree that phonological changes are probably not related to
> >cultural changes.
> but "language" changing from blah blah blah to grunt grunt is phonological?
> I think 'culture' here is applied so broadly as to be meaningless.....

Torkel will have to answer that one.  It's his example, not mine.

> >Intentionality behind language change?  Not usually,
> >although it's not unheard of.
> Evidence???

Evidence of which?  Evidence that it's unusual or evidence that it's
not unheard of?  Assuming the latter, I'll give the U.S. pronunciation
of "laboratory" as an example.  Noah Webster decided that the U.S. should
show its independence from England by making its language independent.
The citizens liked this view, Webster wrote books used in schools, the
intentional changes in pronunciation occurred.  Or look at some of the
changes that occurred in eighteenth-century England.  The prescriptivists
decided that language was like math and that two negatives made a
positive.  They pushed this view onto enough people to cause the loss
of multiple negatives in most dialects of English.
   --Natalie (maynor@ra.msstate.edu)
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.words-l
From: bayla@casbah.acns.nwu.edu (Bayla Singer)
Subject: Re: Isaac Asimov
Organization: Independent scholar
Date: Tue, 7 Apr 1992 03:38:26 GMT

I too will mourn.  At least I had the opportunity to meet him, once: and
even got *hugged* -- he was very democratic about that.  

--bayla

Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU
X-VMS-To: IN%"WORDS-L@uga.cc.uga.edu"
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.words-l
Date:         Wed, 15 Apr 1992 22:10:00 EST
 <WORDS-L%UGA.bitnet@VTVM2.CC.VT.EDU>
From:         "Aaron Dickey, still alive"
 <AXD7104%ACFCLUSTER.NYU.EDU@VTVM2.CC.VT.EDU>
Subject:      Re: sad thought
Comments: To: WORDS-L@uga.cc.uga.edu

Lisa--

Gap from head to toe? Cool!

--Aaron, preppy forever
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.words-l
Date:         Thu, 9 Apr 1992 12:59:49 +0200
 <WORDS-L%UGA.bitnet@VTVM2.CC.VT.EDU>
From:         torkel%SICS.SE@VTVM2.CC.VT.EDU
Subject:      Descriptive and prescriptive
Comments: To: WORDS-L@uga.cc.uga.edu

  I consider myself a strict descriptivist. That is to say, I describe
good speech or writing as good, and poor speech or writing as poor -
and we may assume that I speak (among other things) of grammar and
vocabulary in amplifying this description. On the other hand, I don't
prescribe anything. People can speak, write, and think as they like as
far as I'm concerned.

  Now obviously there is nothing in this that is in any way
incompatible with Natalie's strict "descriptivism", although it seems
that people sometimes argue as though there were. Apparently the idea
is that if we take it to be the business of linguistics to describe
language in certain neutral terms, descriptions of language
in terms of "poor" and "good" and the like must thereby be ruled out
as arbitrary or merely "social" or otherwise of minor importance. How this
follows has never been explained.
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU
X-Envelope-to: WORDS-L@UGA.BITNET
X-VMS-To: IN%"WORDS-L@UGA.BITNET"
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.words-l
Date:         Thu, 9 Apr 1992 11:50:00 PST
 <WORDS-L%UGA.bitnet@VTVM2.CC.VT.EDU>
From:         Lobstrosities Unite <CHRISS%CWU.bitnet@VTVM2.CC.VT.EDU>
Subject:      Re: Lenny is Back

>Where the Sam Hill have you been? I sent you private mail, Bitnet relay
>messages, even fingered your account. Oh, well, welcome back anyway.
>
>-abh


What, do you think you can just leave without saying goodbye?!?  I mean, after
all that you and I shared, Lenny, and then no word for months at at time.  I
was so distraught, I ended up getting married.  Thank you very much!


Welcome back.

Chris
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X-VMS-To: IN%"WORDS-L@UGA.BITNET"
X-VMS-Cc: JLANCASTER
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.words-l
Date:         Sat, 11 Apr 1992 14:35:00 -0500
 <WORDS-L%UGA.bitnet@VTVM2.CC.VT.EDU>
From:         JLANCASTER%AMHERST.bitnet@VTVM2.CC.VT.EDU
Subject:      Re: Income tax:form 8829

>I wonder if anyone has seen this
>form. I suppose tomorrow I'll have to dig up an H & R Block office
>and beg a copy.

Many academic and public libraries have a 4- or 5-volume IRS
publication that includes just about any tax form an individual or
small business might need, intended for xeroxing, along with
instructions where necessary.  Usually kept at the reference desk or
some other central service point.

John Lancaster           (Internet: jlancaster@amherst.edu)
Amherst College          (Bitnet: jlancaster@amherst)
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.words-l
Date:         Wed, 15 Apr 1992 18:08:46 -0500
 <WORDS-L%UGA.bitnet@VTVM2.CC.VT.EDU>
From:         Doris Smith <dorisann%TENET.EDU@VTVM2.CC.VT.EDU>
Subject:      Re: flipping channels
Comments: To: English Language Discussion Group <WORDS-L@uga.cc.uga.edu>
Comments: cc: Multiple recipients of list WORDS-L <WORDS-L@uga.cc.uga.edu>

Re: channel flipping "may" be a predominantly male behavior pattern

Why, of *course* it is.  Are any of you men driven bananas by wives who
flip channels?  My theory is that it is all related to the male
dominance thing - you know, king of the castle, tsar of the tv, and all
of that.

New kid on block
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Original_cc:  WHITERJ
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.words-l
Date:         Thu, 16 Apr 1992 15:17:00 MDT
 <WORDS-L%UGA.bitnet@VTVM2.CC.VT.EDU>
From:         The Ronin <WHITERJ%MSCD.BITNET@VTVM2.CC.VT.EDU>
Subject:      Re: ODDS 'N' ENDS

Sayeth        bad boy <FDOLEZAL@UGA.BITNET>

>And I say that the system of grunts would be *perceived* in the same way as the
>present system of blah blah blah....unless everyone in this lang group had a
>neurolingectomy. Tne complexity of this lang would shift from themorphophonemic
>to the syntacticosemantic.  Of course, this is an argument from genetics and
>biology....i.e.  our grammar is biological, not cultural.

     The conclusion does not seem to follow from the premise, here.
As previously mentioned in this thread, the complexity of thought
expressable by the language may also deteriorate, thus negating the
requirement of an increase in information content through an alternate
agent such as syntax.  Further, the grunting may incorporate a higher
degree of differentiation through inflections, thereby (possibly)
maintaining the information level contained in the morphophonemic
section of the language.

The Ronin
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Newsgroups: bit.listserv.words-l
Date:         Mon, 6 Apr 1992 16:41:24 -0500
 <WORDS-L%UGA.bitnet@VTVM2.CC.VT.EDU>
From:         Nancy Harwood <harwood%TENET.EDU@VTVM2.CC.VT.EDU>
Subject:      Re: Odder and Odder
Comments: To: English Language Discussion Group <WORDS-L@uga.cc.uga.edu>
Comments: cc: Multiple recipients of list WORDS-L <WORDS-L@uga.cc.uga.edu>

On Mon, 6 Apr 1992, Natalie Maynor wrote:

> Date: Mon, 6 Apr 1992 06:34:29 CDT
> From: Natalie Maynor
> Subject: Odder and Odder
> To: Multiple recipients of list WORDS-L <WORDS-L@uga.cc.uga.edu>
>
> Apparently the list problem is only between uga.cc.uga.edu and msstate.edu.

It must have been between uga.cc.uga.edu and tenet.edu as well--I
received no WORDS-L mail at all yesterday (and went into serious
withdrawal!).  I sent a mail query to listserv about 2 p.m. yesterday...
the answer to that didn't show up here until sometime after 6:30 this
morning.

> I just checked usenet and saw that list mail is getting through the gateway
> fine -- and the gateway is using an internet address.  I love net mysteries
> and *hate* that I've got to log off soon and do the work I'm supposed to
> be doing rather than playing with net mysteries.

Wouldn't it be nice to have a job playing with net mysteries?
ndh
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Newsgroups: bit.listserv.words-l
Date:         Thu, 9 Apr 1992 12:30:01 EDT
 <WORDS-L%UGA.bitnet@VTVM2.CC.VT.EDU>
From:         Carol Goodson <CGOODSON%UGA.bitnet@VTVM2.CC.VT.EDU>
Subject:      Re: Odder and Odder
              9 Apr 1992 11:38:39 -0400 from <stevep@SNOWHITE.CIS.UOGUELPH.CA>

On Thu, 9 Apr 1992 11:38:39 -0400 Steve Portigal said:
>>It seems more awful that Arthur Ashe got AIDS because of how he got it...
>>through a blood transfusion during what WAS supposed to be a healing
>>procedure.     I admire him for being able to be so calm about it...I'm
>>afraid I might be suing... at least I'd be bitter.
>>
>  He probably was.  That was 3 1/2 year ago that he found out about it,
>though.  I don't think he'd be doing very well if he was still consumed
>with bitterness.
>
>Steve

--you're right... he'd probably be dead already...
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Newsgroups: bit.listserv.words-l
Date:         Thu, 9 Apr 1992 08:32:11 EST
 <WORDS-L%UGA.bitnet@VTVM2.CC.VT.EDU>
From:         Karen Kay <LL23%NEMOMUS.BITNET%UGA.CC.UGA.EDU@VTVM2.CC.VT.EDU>
Subject:      Re: CALLING ALL STUDENTS OF RUSSIAN
Comments: To: WORDS-L@uga.cc.uga.edu

> > the only way.  In order to be a good writer, there is a necessary
> > process of objectification of language.  You need to divorce your ego
> > from your writing, and treat the words as manipulable objects.
>
> That I agree with.  But we were talking about grammar, not stylistics.
>    --Natalie (maynor@ra.msstate.edu)

I don't think so.:)  I thought the discussion was about how learning a
foreign language helps you to use your own language better?  And to some
extent 'better' is a matter of manipulating style.

Karen

P.S. to Natalie:  I am glad you are having these discussions with Chris
et al. about language and rules, etc. and not me.  You do a much better
job of articulating a point of view that I share with you (for the most
part) than I could.
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.words-l
Date:         Wed, 15 Apr 1992 12:44:09 +0200
 <WORDS-L%UGA.bitnet@VTVM2.CC.VT.EDU>
From:         torkel%SICS.SE@VTVM2.CC.VT.EDU
Subject:      Reflections on the matter of language change
Comments: To: WORDS-L@uga.cc.uga.edu

Some personal remarks. I'm afraid I rather libeled the net in speaking
of wild assumptions as the bane of discussions, for it's really the
same with discussions everywhere. People take up well-worn positions
and expect to find others in well-worn adversary positions. Of course,
the kind of thing that I'm doing is open to criticism as well. My
general habit and tendency is to go at statements and arguments in a
very literal-minded and very pedantic way, presenting whatever
objections seem relevant, quite apart from any opinion or belief I
hold. Not seldom, this kind of approach irritates people, who find it
formalistic, dealing with how things are meant and argued rather than
with the questions of substance. Sometimes their perception of what is
going on is quite accurate...but sometimes not. On the whole, I much
prefer the pedantic and dispassionate approach in arguments of all
kinds, whether or not I hold any belief or opinion on the matter at
hand. As a consequence, when I don't feel like arguing a matter
dispassionately, as in countering the views of Objectivists on animal
rights, I prefer to be merely abusive (and hence end up in Objectivist
kill files). By the way, in so far as I am anything by training, I'm a
philosopher.

  So let me explain my really very simple views on this matter of there
being nothing wrong with language changes. On seeing a statement of this
kind ("I know as a linguist that there is nothing wrong with language
change") I immediately ask myself how this is to be understood. I
construct a suitable example, larger than life, in order to facilitate
the interpretation of the statement. In the present case, suppose English
were to collapse into a system of grunts (one threatening grunt,
one amorous grunt, etc). This would be a drastic language change if there ever
were one, and to my mind a deplorable one. So, what do we learn from
linguistics that tells us that there is, on the contrary, nothing wrong
with such a change? Reading closely Natalie's responses to this question,
the conclusion I arrive at is that there isn't really anything in what she
is saying that is in any way contrary to what people mean when they say
that it would be deplorable if the English language were to change into
a system of grunts.
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU
X-Acknowledge-To: <NY911179@PACEVM>
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.words-l
Date:         Fri, 17 Apr 1992 11:56:29 EDT
 <WORDS-L%UGA.bitnet@VTVM2.CC.VT.EDU>
From:         Mark Susskind <NY911179%PACEVM.bitnet@VTVM2.CC.VT.EDU>
Subject:      Re: Today

>Guess who's ten years old now...
>                        o/.\____/
>         -- Bernard      \______|
>                         / \  / \

Gee, I have no idea. ;-)
Happy tenth birthday to whomever!

Much Lovin',
Mark Susskind <NY911179 @ PACEVM.BITNET>
(who was 25 years, 10 months on April 15, 1992)
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Date:         Tue, 14 Apr 1992 00:43:00 GMT
 <WORDS-L%UGA.bitnet@VTVM2.CC.VT.EDU>
From:         WERTSJ <WERTSJ%DIALOG%MCIMAIL.COM@VTVM2.CC.VT.EDU>
Subject: Re: Pre-Clam Slam
Comments: To: mbx <words-l@uga.cc.uga.edu>

>> (P.S.  Did my postings of Friday ever make it to the list - I never

>Yes.  I remember them.  You were thinking about logging on from home
>over the weekend.  You must not have done so.
>   --Natalie (maynor@ra.msstate.edu)

Thanks, Natalie.  Actually, I did log on, late Sunday night, but there
were about 210 messages to get through, so I didn't get around to
sending any.  Although, even if I had, I doubt anyone would have been
online, since my 11 PM is 1 or 2 AM for many of you!

My other problem is that from home the editor behaves like a line
editor, instead of a full-screen editor. Bah, humbug!  ( I may
actually have to spend the money and buy a communications package
that allows the full-screen editor remotely.)

Jill

______________________________________________________

Jill Werts                 (wertsj%dialog@mcimail.com)
Dialog Information Services
______________________________________________________
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Newsgroups: bit.listserv.words-l
Date:         Sat, 11 Apr 1992 17:32:53 EST
 <WORDS-L%UGA.bitnet@VTVM2.CC.VT.EDU>
From:         Karen Kay <LL23%NEMOMUS.BITNET%UGA.CC.UGA.EDU@VTVM2.CC.VT.EDU>
Subject:      RE: Pencils (was Re: TV)
Comments: To: WORDS-L@uga.cc.uga.edu

> Non- Mechanical pencils are useless. I would think about using them but
> can never find a sharpener.

I keep a kerokerokeroppi (it has a frog on top) pencil sharpener on my
desk on work.

Karen
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