HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: kasprj@isaac.its.rpi.edu (Jim Kasprzak)
Subject: Re: Biggest Disappointments and Surprises
Keywords: my newsreader was designed by bozos.
Reply-To: kasprj@rpi.edu
Organization: The Big Wedge 
Date: Fri, 22 Jan 1993 12:55:54 GMT

 My biggest disappointment was _Wuthering Heights_, no contest. I'd expected 
Great Things from that book. Instead, I found not one character to whom I 
could relate. Their attitudes and outlooks on life were so different from my
own that it might just as well have been written about aliens from Planet Z.
(And this was one of the first books I read when I decided it was time to 
mix a little "quality literature" in with my usual diet of science fiction.)
 
 For pleasant surprises, I'd say my biggest was _Neuromancer_. I avoided 
reading any Gibson for years because I associated Gibson with the cyberpunk 
movement and the cyberpunk movement with a bunch of eighteen-year-old 
WhiteHetBoys from the suburbs who signed onto BBS's and said things like,
"D00D! C-Punk is K00L. Gibson is godlike. Skate and destroy. Nanotech will
save us all, halleluya D00D." When a friend whose opinions on books I trust
told me that I might not find _Neuromancer_ that bad after all, I reluctantly
gave it a try, and to my surprise found that I quite liked it. Which goes to
show, I suppose, that you can't always judge a book by its readers.
------------------------------------------------------------------
     __  Live from Capitaland, heart of the Empire State...
 ___/  | Jim Kasprzak, computer operator @ RPI, Troy, NY, USA
/____ *|          he who refuses to do nonsense  
     \_|          is doomed to talk arithmetic.
      ====  e-mail: kasprj@rpi.edu or kasprzak@mts.rpi.edu 
   

Xref: sparky rec.arts.books:26384 talk.politics.soviet:10742
From: zeleny@husc10.harvard.edu (Mikhail Zeleny)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books,talk.politics.soviet
Subject: Re: Robert Conquest's _The Great Terror_
Date: 26 Jan 93 16:34:44 GMT
Organization: The Phallogocentric Cabal

In article <JMC.93Jan25195548@SAIL.Stanford.EDU> 
jmc@cs.Stanford.EDU writes:

>In article <1993Jan25.122432.19779@husc3.harvard.edu>
>zeleny@husc10.harvard.edu (Mikhail Zeleny) writes:

JMC:
>>>There is a distinction to be made between the execution of someone
>>>believed and convicted, perhaps wrongly of a crime, and the killing
>>>of a 1 1/2 year old baby.  Every bit of restraint is valuable.
>>>
>>>Even if you believe the execution was motivated by malice and the
>>>person was innocent, the distinction is important.  The killing of the
>>>baby was a signal for a greatly increased level of killings of
>>>innocent people.

MZ:
>>I think you are missing something, Professor.  If the execution of
>>Parsons et al. is to be justified by the common belief of their guilt,
>>the same logic can be applied to justify the Nazi Judeocide, which
>>logically proceeded from the assumption that the Jews were an evil and
>>noxious race, congenitally and irremediably deadly to the Aryans.  Come
>>to think of it, the same could be said about the feelings a committed
>>bolshevik might have had for the members of the Romanov family.
>>
>>Should you like to appeal to the distinction of "due process", I entreat
>>you to consider the contemporary idea of "Revolutionary justice".  After
>>all, your argument turns on the participants' beliefs about their actions
>>being just, and not on any immanent aspect of the latter.

JMC:
>There were inhibitions among the Bolsheviks against killing children,
>and these inhibitions were overcome by arguments like those Zeleny
>mentions.  Overcoming them was an important step in extending the
>terror.

I made no mention of any argument.  Consequently, you are failing to
address the real argument I used.  I repeat my questions: is it your
position that hypocritically following the motions of "due process"
makes the execution of Albert Parsons more *just* than the execution
of a Romanov child?  If so, what is your position on other egregious
phenomena of Western justice that were accomplished in equally full
compliance with due process, such as the Nuremberg Laws?  Should you
disapprove of the latter, what is your position on the doxastic and
epistemic warrant for judicial and political action, given by one of
their primary causes, the Protocols of the Elders of Zion, which were
sponsored by the selfsame Romanovs?  Finally, what is your position on
the like warrant given by the _raison d'Etat_?

In short, are you prepared to maintain that the sincerity of belief in
the justice of one's actions, somehow vindicates the unjust agent?  If
so, why do you choose to vindicate the bourgeois juror, but not the
proletarian revolutionary?

>--
>John McCarthy, Computer Science Department, Stanford, CA 94305
>*
>He who refuses to do arithmetic is doomed to talk nonsense.
>

cordially,
mikhail zeleny@husc.harvard.edu
"Le cul des femmes est monotone comme l'esprit des hommes."
From: spb0457@rigel.tamu.edu (SubGenius)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
Subject: Re: For Thine is the kingdom
Date: 24 Jan 1993 01:11 CST
Organization: Texas A&M University, Academic Computing Services
Distribution: world
NNTP-Posting-Host: rigel.tamu.edu
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41    


Francis Muir writes...
>It has always seemed curious to me that Graham 
>Greene would use the last five words of that epilogue for a title 
>for one of his novels. Very confusing. It is as though he were saying 
>"Since you are a Roman Catholic, for you there is no Kingdon, no Power, 
>no Glory."
>					RABworm

+-----------------------------------------SubG--------------------------------+
Well, as you an Alice observe that things get curiouser and curiouser, I 
find nothing inexplicable--drunken, reformed papists (i.e., Greene, Burgess,
or that splitter SubG) generally have little good to say about the ancient
bearded myth or any of the simpering toadies kowtowing to the V. Mary.

I mean, read _Brighton Rock_, mate.











-SubGenius
From: spb0457@rigel.tamu.edu (SubGenius)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
Subject: Re: Ambrose Bierce (and other curmudgeons)
Date: 28 Jan 1993 12:46 CST
Organization: Texas A&M University, Academic Computing Services
Distribution: world
NNTP-Posting-Host: rigel.tamu.edu
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41    

Ted B Samsel writes...
>  I was at a comic book store last weekend picking up the 
>newest Zippy the Pinhead compilation (good stuff) and saw in the
>Classics Comics rack A Bierce's THE DEVIL'S DICTIONARY illo'ed
>by Gahan Wilson. I intend to pick it up at lunch and will dut-
>ifully report posthaste.

+------------------------------------SubG---------------------------------+
Certainly worth the pittance it will set you back. 

Unfortunately, you'll discover that it is an abridged edition of the
_Dictionary_, which is just too bloody bad.

Not nearly as twisted as one might expect from Gahan Wilson, however.








-SubGenius
From: kprashan@sdcc3.ucsd.edu (hyderabadi)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
Subject: Re: INDIAN (ENGLISH) LITERATURE
Date: 24 Jan 93 22:05:30 GMT

In article <1993Jan21.140349.4608@ntuix.ntu.ac.sg>, mmurali@ntuix.ntu.ac.sg (Magical_Flute) writes:
> 
> ------------------------------------
> I. INDIAN WRITERS WRITING IN ENGLISH
> ------------------------------------
>
> (15.)  VIKRAM SETH, Male, (1952-....)
> 
>      1.  Golden Gate

A really unique book.. it is a novel written in verse. One of the two 
books that I have ever read that crept under my skin. The other was Harper
Lee's To Kill A Mockingbird.


> ---------------------------------------------
> IV.  OTHER BOOKS WITH INDIA AND INDIAN EVENTS
>      AS THE MAIN THEME OF THE WRITING
> ---------------------------------------------

How about the British hunter JIM CORBETT's writings? His books were 
very well written [true] hunting stories of man-eating tigers in the
Himalayan jungles and mountains. I really enjoyed reading his books
when I was in high school. The UC San Diego library gave me this list 
of his books.

1. Jim Corbett's India: stories
2. Jungle Lore
3. Man-eaters of India
4. Man-eaters of Kumaon
5. The man-eating leopard of Rudraprayag
6. My India
7. The temple tiger: and more man-eaters of Kumaon
8. Tree tops



_______________________________________________________
| Prashanth                    |                      |
| U. of California @ San Diego | prash@raman.ucsd.edu |
#######################################################
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
From: marcy@sqwest.wimsey.bc.ca (Marcy Thompson)
Subject: Re: Edukation
Organization: SoftQuad Inc., Surrey, British Columbia, CANADA
Date: Thu, 21 Jan 1993 21:04:15 GMT

In a recent rec.arts.books article, Ted B Samsel wrote:
>
>Well, I did say what I said. Nothing like dealing with "education
>types". I had just recieved a call from my daughter's school
>telling me that doing a book report on Orwell's 1984 was not was
>NOT appropriate. I told them that the same thing happened to me
>in the 7th grade (1962 or thereabouts). It's still up in the air.
>  History repeats itself. Akk akk!!

This blows my mind. I went to grade 7 in California in about 1970
and we were assigned _1984_ in class. I didn't *like* the book, but
I got the point of it. For those who didn't, we discussed it enough
in class that they certainly heard the theme enunciated.

Sigh.

Marcy

-- 

Marcy Thompson		
  SoftQuad (West)			
    marcy@sqwest.wimsey.bc.ca (preferred) or marcy@sq.com
From: revpk@cellar.org (Brian 'Rev P-K' Siano)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
Subject: Re: Martin Gardner
Keywords: Gardner
Date: 28 Jan 93 17:34:41 GMT
Organization: The Cellar BBS and public access system

burtl@ils.unc.edu (Laura G. Burtle) writes:

> I just finished reading a wonderful book called The Flight of Peter
> Fromm by Martin Gardner.  Does anyone know anything about the author?
> Has he written any other books?  There is no biographical information in
> the book I have.
> 
> Laura Burtle

	Actually, Martin Gardner is very well known-- he wrote the
"Mathematical Games" column for Scientific American for decades, and several
anthologs of his puzzles are available.

	He's also been one of the most famous writers about science and
psuedoscience. His book "Fads and Fallacies in the Name of Science," and
"Science: Good, Bad and Bogus" are standards among us kook-watchers. In
reviewing the latter, Stephen Jay Gould called Gardner a national treasure.

	"The Flight of Peter Fromm" was his only novel, which he says is
partly autobiographical. An interview with gardner can be found in the book
"Mathematical People." Oh, yeah, he's also done the wonderful "The
Annontated Alice in Wonderland."

	You might want to raise this question on sci.skeptic. We're all big
fans of Gardner over there.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Brian "Rev. P-K" Siano                                  revpk@cellar.org

"Do I BELIEVE in the Bible? Hell, man, I've even SEEN one!!"
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: roth@3d.enet.dec.com (Jim Roth)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
Subject: Re: Ordering books via Internet?
Date: 27 Jan 93 01:55:06 GMT
Organization: Digital Equipment Corporation


In article <25JAN199317133745@rigel.tamu.edu>, spb0457@rigel.tamu.edu (SubGenius) writes...
>Matthew P Wiener writes...
>>Quantum books (their Cambridge store) is on the internet.

>a)  what's their address and

 quanbooks@world.std.com

>b)  do they have an electronic catalogue?

 Don't know, ask them.  I've only been to the store.

 - Jim
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
From: clarke@acheron.UUCP (Ed Clarke/10240000)
Subject: DON'T REPLY TO THE POSTINGS
Reply-To: clarke@acheron.UUCP
Organization: Ciliophora Associates
Date: Tue, 26 Jan 1993 13:39:17 GMT

A certain person is posting random complaints about two countries in the
middle east " t u r k i e  a n d   a r m e  en i a".  This is NOT a person,
it's a pattern matching program.  Don't reply to the postings, don't
mention the two countries, the person or the site.  Don't follow up to
any of these messages.

You can't win; it seems impossible to remove the site/person/program from
usenet no matter how irritating he/she/it is.  Do not send email to the
postmaster of that site, this will bring tons of crud back to you.  Let
the thread die of disuse.

Ed Clarke
clarke@acheron.uucp
From: cramer@optilink.COM (Clayton Cramer)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
Subject: Re: Austin-on-the-Colorado
Date: 20 Jan 93 22:15:04 GMT
Organization: Optilink Corporation, Petaluma, CA

In article <1jbka3INNj1l@usenet.INS.CWRU.Edu>, bh419@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Ted B Samsel) writes:
> 
> My brother told me that the Klan was going to march in Austin
> this weekend and several groups were going to protest. I'd like
> to know how the bus load of country and folk type musicians
> (who were going to MOON the Klan from a charter) went over.

I hope they kept the windows closed.  A rock could HURT in a place
like that.

>  Nobody on
> the east coast has the presence of mind to do something clever
> like that , ever. (Unless they're from Texas).
> -- 
> Ted....

A little humor (even crude and rude) goes a long ways to defuse
Big Government morons like the Klan.


-- 
Clayton E. Cramer {uunet,pyramid}!optilink!cramer  My opinions, all mine!
"When freedom destroys order, order will destroy freedom." -- Eric Hoffer
Not a goal, just a statement of reality.
From: spb0457@rigel.tamu.edu (SubGenius)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
Subject: Re: Censorship
Date: 26 Jan 1993 00:13 CST
Organization: Texas A&M University, Academic Computing Services
Distribution: world
NNTP-Posting-Host: rigel.tamu.edu
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41    


Mike Godwin writes...
>It does not help your argument that you are citing cases from the 1930s.
>--Mike

+-------------------------------------SubG---------------------------------+
Lenny Bruce died for your sins, man.

But anyway, I wasn't making an argument (admittedly, `yet'), just replying
to the question as to whether any books had been banned in America since
the 20's.  And, if you take the '34 publication date of _Tropic of Cancer_
and add the 27 years it was banned, you'll find that it was not good
enough for Amurricans until '61.








-SubGenius


Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
From: mwhatt01@ulkyvx.louisville.edu
Subject: Re: Journal of books you've read?
Date: Thu, 21 Jan 1993 20:12:24 GMT
Organization: University of Louisville


> For about five years I've kept a journal of all the books I've read, with
> a brief review or response to each book. 

That is an interesting idea.  I was thinking that someday if all books 
are on line, instead of a collection of books I would just have a list 
of the books I like.  As of now I try to keep only the books that are
special.  Therefore I keep only the books I would recommend, and every
book I would recommend I own.
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
From: fi@grebyn.com (Fiona Webster)
Subject: Steve Tally's _Bland_Ambition_
Organization: Grebyn Timesharing
Date: Mon, 25 Jan 1993 04:07:46 GMT

'Just thought I'd share with y'all the fact that as I've been trying to
work tonight, my husband has been behaving most strangely--bursting
repeatedly into my office to read me excerpts from this book called
_Bland_Ambition_ by Steve Tally.  It's about all the vice presidents
who ever were.  My husband is a dour Scot, and normally does not behave
in this fashion.  This leads me to conclude that this is a very funny
book.  Even as I type these words, I'm hearing about Grover Cleveland,
who, on the occasion of his marriage gave his wife a suitcase containing
fifty pairs of socks that needed darning.

							--Fiona
From: bh419@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Ted B Samsel)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
Subject: Re: Deconstructing Angelou
Date: 22 Jan 1993 17:01:58 GMT
Organization: Case Western Reserve University, Cleveland, Ohio (USA)
NNTP-Posting-Host: hela.ins.cwru.edu


Or the :
  Veil of Meyer Angelou....???
-- 
Ted....
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
From: jk@panix.com (Jim Kalb)
Subject: Mastodon Poetry (was Deconstructing Angelou)
Organization: Institute for the Human Sciences
Date: Fri, 22 Jan 1993 15:12:37 GMT

In article <1jmvhtINNoft@morrow.stanford.edu> francis@oas.stanford.edu (Francis Muir) writes:

>	... the mastadon, the dinosaur 
>	who left dry tokens of their sojourn 
>	here on our planet floor ...

It's good to see an addition to the genre of mastodon poetry.  The only
other example I know of is a parody of _The Waste Land_:

"You have no guide nor clue,
For you know only puce snakes and violet mastodons,
Where the brain beats, and a selzer is no anwer, a vomit no relief . . ."

I seem to remember a few paleolithic and earlier references in Kipling
("When the Cambrian measures were forming, we were promised perpetual
peace . . ."), but I don't think he specifically mentions mastodons.
Can anyone suggest any other examples?
-- 
Jim Kalb (jk@panix.com)
"Alles Erworbne bedroht die Maschine, solange
sie sich erdreistet, im Geist, statt im Gehorchen, zu sein."  (Rilke)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books,alt.president.clinton
From: stefan@leland.Stanford.EDU (Stefan Michalowski)
Subject: Re: Forcing the Spring 
Organization: DSG, Stanford University, CA 94305, USA
Date: Mon, 25 Jan 93 22:41:12 GMT

Katherine M. Catmull writes:
>Clinton talked about "forcing the spring" twice in his inauguration
>speech. I thought it was a very pretty phrase, and evocative
>of What Americans Do....

Kate,

I'm a Friend of Bill, but the phrase struck me as one of the ugliest
that ever emerged from the mouth of a politician.  Forcing the Spring?
Is that What Americans Do? The only thing that comes close in my
experience is trying to replace the shocks on my old Volvo.

The Spring should be cherished and petted and savored, not forced.

Chapeau,

Stefan


"Ai vostri piedi, tutte le grazie de la Primavera" 
                         - Puccini, "La Rondine"
Xref: sparky rec.arts.books:25921 alt.president.clinton:1678
From: mnemonic@eff.org (Mike Godwin)
Subject: Re: Censorship
Originator: mnemonic@eff.org
Organization: Electronic Frontier Foundation
Date: Tue, 26 Jan 1993 19:10:36 GMT

In article <26JAN199300132082@rigel.tamu.edu> spb0457@rigel.tamu.edu (SubGenius) writes:

>Lenny Bruce died for your sins, man.
>
>But anyway, I wasn't making an argument (admittedly, `yet'), just replying
>to the question as to whether any books had been banned in America since
>the 20's.  And, if you take the '34 publication date of _Tropic of Cancer_
>and add the 27 years it was banned, you'll find that it was not good
>enough for Amurricans until '61.

Freedom of the press and freedom of speech have both improved
significantly in this country in the last three decades.


--Mike




-- 
Mike Godwin,    |"I'm waiting for the one-man revolution
mnemonic@eff.org| The only one that's coming."
(617) 864-0665  |                           
EFF, Cambridge  |                   --Robert Frost 
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
From: roger@crux.Princeton.EDU (Roger Lustig)
Subject: Re: CRITICISM W/ AMERICAN NOVEL FOCUS
Originator: news@nimaster
Reply-To: roger@astro.princeton.edu (Roger Lustig)
Organization: Princeton University
Date: Wed, 20 Jan 1993 03:52:20 GMT

In article <1993Jan18.133504.7328@gw.wmich.edu> 92kmotorka@gw.wmich.edu writes:
>Can anyone think of a good AND readable critic who has written specifically
>about the American novel--most motably in the area of the American "story" and
>the development of the novel in the early years of the U.S.  This critic should
>also have something to say about characteristics that are unique to American
>literature.

D.H.Lawrence: _Studies in Classic American Literature_.  The book that 
revived Melville's reputation.

Roger
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
From: uroessl1@gwdu03.gwdg.de (Uwe Roessler)
Subject: Wax-figures wanted
Keywords: Wax-figures
Organization: GWDG, Goettingen
Date: Thu, 21 Jan 1993 15:16:26 GMT

In John Webster's "Duchess of Malfi" 
'To bring her to despaire' the Duchesse is confronted with 
'the artificiall figures of _Antonio_ and his children, appearing as if
they were dead': 'but fram'd in wax'.

'Dutchesse: There is not betwene heaven and earth one wish
            I stay for after this: it wastes me more,
            Then were't my picture, fashion'd out of wax,
            Stucke with a magicall needle, and then buried
            In some fowle dung-hill: and yond's an excellent property
            For a tyrant, which I would account mercy...'

To get rid of this nightmare, I'm looking now for more wax-figures
in literature or art. All references are welcome, please mail:
I'll post a list of them, if there is a considerable influx of wax.

u.roessler                  uroessl1@gwdu03.gwdg.de
                            uroessl1@dgogwdg1.bitnet

"Schon in frueher Jugend lief ich weinend davon, als man mich in 
ein Wachsfigurenkabinett fuehrte..."
E.T.A. Hoffmann
From: c60b-2hz@e260-3g.berkeley.edu (Nathaniel Meyers)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
Subject: Brook (was Re: Marilyn (was: Paglia))
Date: 22 Jan 1993 07:15:10 GMT
Organization: University of California, Berkeley
NNTP-Posting-Host: e260-3g.berkeley.edu


I'm sorry to say that a while back I wrote:

>>>>Except she never took any math or science classes which makes one
>>>>wonder about Princeton's idea of a complete education.

I wasn't really expressing an opinion but answering what I thought was the
question at hand; namely what was the flap about Brooke Shields.  I don't
know anything about Princeton (other than century old family anecdotes) or
about Brooke Shields nor do I care.
Roger Lustig writes 
>Note also that the sour grapes didn't begin until Leonard Koppett wrote
>a silly piece about Shields' transcript for the op-ed page of the Times.
>
>Roger
Yes, that was the article I was refering to.
-Nathaniel
P.S. I've never been a U.C. Berkeley student.  That was an honest mistake
but please don't presume to guess my age.
Xref: sparky rec.arts.books:26228 alt.president.clinton:1775
From: rjmathia@novell.com (Robert Mathias)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books,alt.president.clinton
Subject: Re: Maya Angelou inaugural poem
Date: 25 Jan 93 15:34:32 GMT
Organization: Novell Inc., San Jose, Califonia

In article <1993Jan25.020613.22207@oracle.us.oracle.com> mrichter@oracle.uucp (Mark Richter) writes:
>The poem misses someone really *important*. The English. Hey, they only wrote
>the Declaration of Independence, the United States Consitution and founded
>this great country. The poem mentions Germans, Swedes, and about every other
>cult, clan, group and nation under the sun. But, not the English.
>
The poem covered our English background by mentioning the Scots.

I notice this weekend, that all the conservative talking heads on TV brought
up the issue that the English weren't mentioned, one even calling it a
national outrage.  It seems that after all the civil right years, these
conservatives are still uncomfortable with our multi-ethnic heritage.
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books,talk.politics.soviet,soc.culture.jewish
From: jmc@SAIL.Stanford.EDU (John McCarthy)
Subject: Re: Robert Conquest's _The Great Terror_
Reply-To: jmc@cs.Stanford.EDU
Organization: Computer Science Department, Stanford University
	<14003@optilink.COM> <1993Jan22.044913.21674@Princeton.EDU>
Date: 23 Jan 93 04:27:42

That the Rosenbergs were guilty was confirmed by Khrushchev in the
final installment of his memoirs.  This doesn't prove that the trial
was fair, however.  Nevertheless, I think it was fair.

At the time, however, it seemed to me that the sentence should have
been that for peacetime espionage, since the espionage was on behalf
of an ally, and I didn't understand why the point wasn't raised.  It
wasn't raised by the Government, because the Government hoped up to
the last moment to coerce the Rosenbergs into telling more about the
spy rings.  The Rosenbergs were good soldiers to the end, Ethel more
than Julius, it is said.  The defense didn't raise the issue, because
the Communist Party controlled the defense lawyers, who optimized
what they considered to be the propaganda value of the trial rather
than the interests of their clients - which was presumably to avoid
being executed.

What is the alleged unfairness of the Rosenberg trial?
--
John McCarthy, Computer Science Department, Stanford, CA 94305
*
He who refuses to do arithmetic is doomed to talk nonsense.