From: petersm@jacobs.CS.ORST.EDU (Marguerite Petersen)
Newsgroups: alt.feminism
Subject: Re: Sexist Incidents
Date: 4 Sep 92 07:06:20 GMT
Organization: Computer Science Outreach Services - Oregon State University

In article <22097@galaxy.ucr.edu> starbuck@ucrmath.ucr.edu (aaron greenwood) writes:
>In article <1992Aug31.194530.3396@leela.cs.orst.edu> petersm@jacobs.CS.ORST.EDU (Marguerite Petersen) writes:
>
>-And I have some more examples.  I used to work in the Distribution Dept. of
>-a local newspaper (inserting pre-prints, bundling newspapers and loading
>-vans).  
>
>[ deleted part where MP notes that the new-hires (men) were to get the
>  training on the fork lift. ]
>
>-I insisted that we be taught the same skills as the men or I would make
>-a formal complaint to his superiors.  He gave in and taught all of the
>-women at the same time as the men.  Needless to say (or is it?) the
>-women did just as well at this job as the men.  I even received some
>-compliments from some of the men concerning my precise placement of
>-the pallets and stacking.  They commented that *they* couldn't be that
>-precise.  Of course, I wound up being the one in charge of stacking. :-)
>-I don't know if this was a good thing or not but it did allow me to
>-make a point.
>-
>-Marg
>
>You fought you own battle and won.  For that you should be comended.
>Rather than take the feminist view and repeat the story as an act
>of sexism, you should use it as an example of how to overcome.

I agree that my story is an example of how to overcome.  However, I
*do* think it is an example of sexism.

>By using your story to show discimination and sexism many people would
>only remember another negitive causing undue tension in society.  On the
>other hand the real truth of your story is that you overcame by using
>you own volition and "moxie".  That fact would encourage others to
>do likewise.  It is a story to rejoyce about not feel bad about.

I certainly don't feel bad about my part in this episode, only that the
battle was necessary in the first place.

>You have done what men have been doing for a very long time, by sticking
>up for yourself.  You were not intimidated, not at all.  Your action
>benifited you as well as the other women.  So in that one small space
>things have changed.  We should be consentrating on the changes.

I agree that men have been sticking up for themselves as *individuals* 
for a very long time, but I didn't feel as though this situation was
an example of an individual fighting for their rights.  This particular
situation was a definite case of descrimination *against* women as a
group and not myself as an individual.  If I had been a male there
would have been no question about my getting this training.

>One of the many reasons that I am an anti-feminist ( note that does not
>imply anti-women ) is that feminism stresses the negitive.  Like Murphys
>laws "given any situation a feminist will find something negitive".  Another
>reason is that when one disagree's with a feminist one is called a sexist
>thus effectively making that word meaningless.

I am a feminist and I admit to being *aware* of the negatives.  They surround
me constantly.  However, I do try to make something positive out of the
descrimination that I find.  I know that I can't fight *every* battle that
exists but I do the best I can, when I can.  I don't know that I would call
you a sexist, just misguided.  Perhaps all of us could make a difference if
we really tried.

I don't know if you saw it but I posted a poem a while back titled "Truly
a Rebel".  It was an accounting of my experiences in High School.  It did
happen a loooong time ago for some but for me the experiences are still
fresh.  Admittedly some things have improved.  My 14-year old daughter is
bright in Math and Science and *so far* no-one has tried to discourage her
in her pursuits.  I can only hope things remain this positive.  

>starbuck
>
>Life is deeper than feminist thought.

Marg
"When they call me *bitch*, I say *thank you*!