HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: matthew@base.cs.ucla.edu (Matthew Merzbacher)
Subject: Re: What to do when the rules conflict?
Organization: UCLA, Computer Science Department
Date: 21 Jan 93 21:30:37 GMT

tnh@sw.stratus.com (Tim Hill) writes:

>I suppose you have agreements concerning at least these three auctions:

>     1C-2C(natural)-P
>     1C-2C(majors)-P
>     1C-2C(no agreement)-P

>I also gather that the meanings of pass in those three auctions are
>overlapping but not identical.  If so, partner gave you the unauthorized
>information that he has a pass in any of these auctions, so your future
>bids and plays are restricted by Law 16A!

Not necessarily.  Partner may have read their card (more thoroughly) before 
bidding and thus knew what their defense was to 1C.  Perhaps the opponents 
had only filled out one card, and it was on partner's side of the table,
and you were late for the round, and...
--

Matthew Merzbacher	ARPA:	matthew@CS.UCLA.EDU
Moo - Moo Moo  		UUCP:	...!{uunet|rutgers|ucbvax}!cs.ucla.edu!matthew
               		This time, *with* the oys
From: pynq@quads.uchicago.edu (Jeremy Mathers)
Newsgroups: rec.games.bridge
Subject: What to do when the rules conflict?
Summary: A chicken-and-egg kind of problem...
Date: 21 Jan 93 14:06:19 GMT
Reply-To: pynq@midway.uchicago.edu
Organization: D. J. Dougherty & Associates

Playing at the club last nite, we came to the table of a pair who was
already plenty annoyed at us, because we had made a ruckus during the
previous round, thereby disturbing their tranquility.

On the first board of the round, I dealt and opened 1C (alerted
as Precision).  Next hand bid 2C (not alerted).  Now, experience has
shown that on this auction, 75% of the time RHO doesn't know what the 2C
bid is.  That is, either its Michaels and RHO thinks it is Natural, or
vice versa.  In any case, they never alert it or and they usually
explain it wrong.  But, in any case, partner passes, and I alert.  The
reason for the alert is that, over an overcall, this pass shows
specifically 0-5 HCP, and I've been told that that agreement warrants an
alert.  However, in the instant case, I'm not real sure what it is going
on, because I don't really know what the 2C bid is.

Anyway, RHO now asks me to explain the alert and I respond by asking
what the 2C bid means.  She says that I cannot ask because it is not my
turn to bid.  I say that I can't tell what the double means w/o knowing
what the 2C bid means (note: in this environment, 2C could be anything,
but it is most likely intended as either natural or Michaels)  At this
point, she got nasty and said (essentially) that if I didn't have an
answer on tap, that I should not have alerted.  I said (essentially)
"OKfine."  She then called the director, and eventually I said something
to the effect that if the 2C was natural, then the pass showed 0-5.

But I am curious as to what the theoretical solution to the problem is.
How can I explain my partner's bids w/o  knowing what the opps bids mean?

************************************************************************
Disco is to music what Etch-A-Sketch is to art.

	- pynq@quads.uchicago.edu, who is still costing the net
	  hundreds, if not thousands, of dollars, every time he posts -
************************************************************************
From: bs@gauss.mitre.org (Robert D. Silverman)
Newsgroups: rec.games.bridge
Subject: Re: Assess the blame
Date: 22 Jan 93 21:35:22 GMT
Organization: Research Computer Facility, MITRE Corporation, Bedford, MA

In article <1993Jan22.175103.22673@rayssd.ssd.ray.com> sgm@sgfb.ssd.ray.com (Steven G. Myerson) writes:
 
stuff deleted....
>I think the first bad bid was 3D,
>unless there was an agreement that this bid showed weakness.
>East just doesn't have enough to bid, freely, at the three level.
 
This is exactly the sort of thing I referred to in my earlier post
when I said that changing bidding systems won't help novices very
much.

East isn't "bidding freely". He is showing playing strength in 
support of partner.  I remember a quote about this from S.J. Simon
on a similar situation. One partner said something like
"How am I to bid on only blah blah at the 4 level" and the answer
was:
"You're not damn it! You're supporting me. The only difference is that
you are going to play the hand"

I suggest you run [don't walk] and get yourself a copy of Woolsey's
"Matchpoints". Pay particular attention to the section on the
law of total tricks.

The East hand has a very GOOD 3D bid. It is an 8 loser hand with
6 card support to an honor for one of partners suits and 4 card
support for another. 

Total tricks says the opponents have 9 hearts and can probably
make 3H. You have at least 9 diamonds and should easily make
3 diamonds, especially in light of the second fit in clubs.

Try constructing some normal takeout doubles for partner.
Forget about the perversion partner actually held. See how 3D plays.


Your comments show you do not know how to evaluate a hand in
support of partner's takeout doubles.

3D may also be necessary to:

(a) suggest a lead to partner
(b) allow partner to decide intelligently whether to sack/defend
    if they bid again.
(c) allow partner to compete to 4D if they stop in 3H.
(d) keep the opponents from stealing the hand. They may stop in
    2 or 3 hearts and partner may not be able to bid again.

One can easily construct hands for partner where game is cold for
you and him. You will never find them if you pass.


3D is COMPETITIVE in this auction and shows PLAYING STRENGTH in
support of partner's TAKEOUT double. It does not promise high cards.

>
>3N was certainly reasonable given East's encouraging response.
>
3NT was HOPELESS. Even if East has a super maximum; say AQxxxx
the diamond suit BLOCKS. Note that partner holding this hand 
also only leaves a total of 15 HCP for the opponents when they
both bid. While this is possible , it is not very likely. And
if by some chance partner does have AQxxxx it will be a cold day in hell
before he also holds an outside entry.

Think about the play in 3NT before making such bids!
--
Bob Silverman
These are my opinions and not MITRE's.
Mitre Corporation, Bedford, MA 01730
"You can lead a horse's ass to knowledge, but you can't make him think"
Newsgroups: rec.games.bridge
From: hampton@ais.org (Kevin Podsiadlik)
Subject: Is this an infraction?
Organization: UMCC
Date: Sun, 24 Jan 1993 02:36:29 GMT

A hypothetical question on the Laws:
 
After West makes the opening lead to a hand, and while declarer is studying
the dummy, East notices something very wrong.  Dummy's diamond holding
appears to include the ace, and yet East is staring at the ace of diamonds
in his own hand.  "Wait a minute," says East, who then shuffles through
dummy's diamonds to reveal that the ace among them is in fact the ace of
HEARTS.  (The suit of the card was completely hidden from view, so that
only the red "A" was visible.  Dummy was unavailable for comment after
the hand.)
 
West now knows with virtual certainty that East has the ace of diamonds.
When South accuses East of transmitting unauthorized information, East
protests that he was making what he thought was an innocuous, even
chivalrous, effort to rectify an error on dummy's part.
 
Were East actions a violation of the Law?

-- 
Kevin J. Podsiadlik          | 
Vaporware Engineer 2nd class |    "But, Master, what if we behave badly?" 
E-mail: hampton@ais.org      |    "You go to Detroit."
CompuServe: 71460,3602       |
From: varvel@cs.utexas.edu (Donald A. Varvel)
Newsgroups: rec.games.bridge
Subject: Re: What is so terrible about doubling offshape?
Date: 22 Jan 1993 15:36:18 -0600
Organization: CS Dept, University of Texas at Austin
NNTP-Posting-Host: im4u.cs.utexas.edu
Keywords: Double

In article <1jplhnINNprt@geraldo.cc.utexas.edu> shamrake@ccwf.cc.utexas.edu (Danil Suits) writes:

[Concerning what to bid over a 3rd-hand opening holding 4-4-1-4,
 19 HCP, including a stiff DK]

>What I'd really like to see here is a discussion of what is
>in literature. No offense intended Bob, but I don't trust
>Boyin's experiences either.  Don Varvel is the usual net.librarian;
>can you dig out some answers for us?

In a word, no.

Kaplan says in his increasingly misnamed _Competitive Bidding in
Modern Bridge_, "So do not reopen with a balanced hand of seven
points or fewer.  This has a corollary: partner must not "trap"
with 18 points or more ..."  Note that Kaplan reopens 1NT with
a balanced 8-10 HCP, doubling with more.  This is *far* from being
usual expert practice.  I think most experts would pass with most
of those hands.  So passing with this strong a hand is taking 
quite a position.  Kaplan's usual range for a 1NT overcall is 
17-19 (!), so I suspect he would overcall 1NT on the present hand.  
I suspect Bergen wouldn't, but I have no idea what he *would* bid.

In general, authors tell you what the requirements are for each
call and say nothing about the hands that don't meet any of the
requirements.

Perhaps somebody who has Lawrence on overcalls will do some digging.
That's one I *don't* have.

-- Don Varvel (varvel@cs.utexas.edu)
Newsgroups: rec.games.bridge
From: knut@cmr.no (Knut Ivar Pettersen)
Subject: Okbridge ? 
Organization: Chr. Michelsen Research, Norway
Date: Thu, 21 Jan 93 13:51:32 GMT

When I try to ftp` the okbridge files from cs.ucsd.edu , I have
to rename them, because I use a MSdos computer.
I also tried the telenet, but that didnt work either.
Is it possible to run okbridge from a msdos computer, and if it
is, How ?

Knut@cmr.no , Bergen-Norway
From: zilch@apples.Eng.Sun.COM (John Hoffman)
Newsgroups: rec.games.bridge
Subject: Re: Assess the blame
Date: 27 Jan 1993 22:26:38 GMT
Organization: Sun Microsystems, Inc.
Distribution: world
Reply-To: zilch@apples.Eng.Sun.COM
NNTP-Posting-Host: apples

> Indeed. On some occasions I use a system called ADOS [for active defensive
> overcalls]. All overcalls [including NT] and direct cuebids are limited
> to 6-13 HCP. You double on any hand of 14+ HCP and any shape. But it
> uses EXCLUSION non-jump responses by partner and transfer jump responses.
> [among other things]
>
> The method was invented by Kris Bhavnani, a New England area expert and
> known as a bidding theorist.

Bob,

Would you be kind enough to post more details/explanation of this method?
My partner has insisted on power doubles (15+ points appx.), which mesh well
with a weak 1N takeout (shapely 8 to non-shapely 14) and potentially very
weak lead-directing overcalls.  However, we have not established a very
coherent set of sequences after the power double, especially when there is
further competition.  

John Hoffman
soon to be at HaL Computer Systems in Campbell CA
hoffman@btr.com


Newsgroups: rec.games.bridge
From: rainbow@cbnewsc.cb.att.com (Rob Buchner)
Subject: Re: Some questions about 2 over 1
Organization: St Barts
Date: Mon, 25 Jan 1993 22:23:44 GMT


> I must admit, i'm confused. Having read Mike Lawrence's 2-o-1 Cookbook
I agree, there are many different opinions and you must discuss
2-o-1 partnership agreements because many systems are viable.
Everyone has their favorites which work best for themselves.
Here are my preferences.

> 1S-2C-2D/H-2S and 1S-2C-2D/H-3S and 1S-2C-2D/H-4S
2S shows 3 card spade support with extra values.
3S shows 4 card spade support with extra values.
4S shows a minimum hand. All bids imply 5 clubs.
Over 2S, 4S is a minimum hand with no slam interest.

Despite many experts who say that making an immediate
support bid with four trumps is mandatory, and any other
sequence denies such a holding, I disagree. I feel showing
a good minor and potential source of tricks more important.
I use Jacoby 2NT mostly on balanced hands with nothing
more of interest to say, or wanting to hear opener
make a further description of their hand. In other
words, Jacoby 2NT is my last choice, not my first.
However, I think it is important to immediately show
4 card major support with hands of less than opening
values to facilitate reaching game contracts.

> 1S-2C-2D/H-3S-cue and 1S-2C-2S-3S-cue?
Cue-bids below game do not promise extras, they may just
be cooperative in case partner is interested in slam,
which he probably is because he has already shown extras.
But opener should not go past game without extra values.

> what does a cue from *responder* now show?
Cue-bids below game show first or second round control.
Cue-bids above game show first round control.

> 1S-2C-2D/H-2S-X-3/4S
Responder should be making a descriptive cue-bid here.

> 1S-2C-2S-3S
Extra values. 3 spades, possibly 4. No stiff.
Note a 2S rebid does not promise a 6 card suit.

> 1S-2C-2S-4S 
Minimum values. 3 spades, possibly 4. No stiff.

> 1S-2C-2D-3D
Four card support. Five clubs. Denies stiff heart. Possibly minimum.

> 1S-2C-2D-4D
Rare. Four diamonds. Five clubs. Two hearts. Two spades. Slam try.

> 1S-2C-2H-3/4H
4H is a minimum, 3H shows extra. Denies stiff diamond.

> 1S-2C-3C
Any solid opening bid with good support. Tends to deny a 2NT
rebid. It also denies four trumps with a splinter, any strength.
1S-2C-2S is a waiting bid, responder can bid 2NT for further
description. Opener's 2NT rebid shows 12-14 with stoppers,
3NT shows 15-17 with stoppers. 1S-2C-2D is a real suit.
Over 1S-2C-2S, new suits are looking for 3NT, 3C is forcing.

> 1S-2C-4C
Rare. Four clubs. Five spades. Two hearts. Two diamonds. Slam try.

> 1S-2H-3/4H
I do not play that 2H is game forcing, so 4H shows extra values,
3H shows a minimum hand and is passable. If 1S-2H is game forcing,
then fast arrival clearly applies.
From: zilch@apples.Eng.Sun.COM (John Hoffman)
Newsgroups: rec.games.bridge
Subject: Re: What is so terrible about doubling off
Date: 25 Jan 93 19:39:00 GMT
Reply-To: zilch@apples.Eng.Sun.COM
Organization: Sun Microsystems, Inc.
NNTP-Posting-Host: apples

> As a sidelight, has anybody else given consideration to the fact
> that a lebensohl sequence would have helped here?
>
>     P     P     1H     (X or 1NT)
>     2H    2NT*   P      3C
>     P     3D
>
> Danil

This is exactly how my primary partner and I would have bid the hand.
The 2NT bid is "Good-Bad 2NT" on our card (similar but not identical
to its description in Bergen and Lawrence).  We use 2N for a hand
containing competitive but not invitational values.  A direct bid
of 3D is invitational in the context of the auction.
Newsgroups: rec.games.bridge
Subject: Re: How should this be bid?
From: avir@chen.bgu.ac.il (Avi Roy Shapira)
Date: Fri, 22 Jan 1993 15:24:38 GMT
Organization: Ben Gurion University, Beer Sheva, Israel

grabiner@math.harvard.edu (David Grabiner) writes:
:
: South dealer, both vulnerable, Swiss teams.  You are North, partner
: opens 1S, and LHO passes  You hold
:
: KQJxxxx
: K9xx
: xx
: -
:
: What do you do?
: Here's the South hand; how does your auction go?
:
: ATxxx
: Ax
: xx
: AKxx
:
: Our auction was unscientific but quite successful:
:
: S   W   N   E
: 1S  P   6S  P
: 7S  P   P   X
: P   P   P
:
: West led a heart, and we claimed 13 tricks for +2470.  (East held the AK
: of diamonds.)
:
:
There are a few possible bids with the North hand. Either 4S or 6S.
I prefer 6 spades, unless you are ahead in the match. Partner's raise
to 7 is wholly justified and 7S is certainly better than 6S.

It has about 35% chance of success. (slightly more then 2/3rds of the time
E has the A of diamonds, not 3/4 since on this auction one should not lead
a trump, but some will), and the imp expectaion is slightly against it,
but the imp expectation is definitely worse for 6S.

In BTC the bidding may go.
 1S 2C ( a fragment, or advanced Q bid, or a suit, forcing to 2N or 3C)
 2S 4C (spade support, 1st round club control)
 4H 4S (4H denies 1st or 2nd round control of diamonds)
 Pass

Avi



--
Aviel Roy-Shapira, M.D.         Ben-Gurion University Medical School
Dept. of Surgery A.             POB 151, Beer Sheva, Israel
avir@chen.bgu.ac.il             AVIR@BGUVM.BITNET
Newsgroups: rec.games.bridge
From: zilch@planb.Eng.Sun.COM (John Hoffman)
Newsgroups: rec.games.bridge
Subject: Re: How should this be bid?
Date: 21 Jan 1993 19:22:59 GMT
Organization: Sun Microsystems, Inc.
Distribution: world
Reply-To: zilch@planb.Eng.Sun.COM
NNTP-Posting-Host: planb

> South dealer, both vulnerable, Swiss teams.  You are North, partner
> opens 1S, and LHO passes  You hold
>
> KQJxxxx
> K9xx
> xx
> -
>
> What do you do?
>
> Here's the South hand; how does your auction go?
>
> ATxxx
> Ax
> xx
> AKxx
>
> Our auction was unscientific but quite successful:
>
> S   W   N   E
> 1S  P   6S  P
> 7S  P   P   X
> P   P   P
>
> West led a heart, and we claimed 13 tricks for +2470.  (East held the AK
> of diamonds.)

Some days you have all the luck.  Other more reasonable bidding sequences
might include:

1S - 4C; 4S - pass                 4C = splinter   4S = no cue bid and no interest
or
1S - 2N; 3S - 4C; 4S - pass        2N = Jacoby  3S = non-minimum balanced 



Newsgroups: rec.games.bridge
From: geppo@spot.wustl.edu (Giuseppe Bianchi)
Subject: Re: two simple sequences
Organization: Washington University, St. Louis MO
Date: Tue, 26 Jan 1993 17:27:28 GMT

jbaron@higgs.ssc.gov (Jeff Baron) writes:
>- (1D) - 1S -  P - 2D*
>-        2H        2N
>with 1-3-4-5, I'd probably bid an immediate 2NT.  In either case, I
>think that the bids are *both* invitational.

I'm really surprised by this answer.

It's a lot of time that I don't play cue = generic one round force 
(I'm actually playing cue = limit raise or better), but I would have bet
that 2NT in this sequence would *at least* be GF (expecially after the
change of suit of the overcaller).

Somebody cares to make some light?

Giuseppe.
From: pseah@rambutan.orchid.tymnet.com (Paul Seah x-6315)
Newsgroups: rec.games.bridge
Subject: Network bridge software
Date: 21 Jan 93 21:11:20 GMT
Organization: B T North America


I've seen a UNIX bridge software that allows four players on a LAN to
have a bridge game.  Does anyone know where this software may be FTPed
from?

PS
--


-------------------------------------------------------------------
Paul Seah                        Tel: +1 408 9226315
Network Analysis and Design	 Fax: +1 408 9227106
B T North America                Dialcom id: p.seah
				 Internet: pseah@orchid.tymmnet.com
Newsgroups: rec.games.bridge
From: zilch@planb.Eng.Sun.COM (John Hoffman)
Newsgroups: rec.games.bridge
Subject: Re: How should this be bid?
Date: 21 Jan 1993 19:24:58 GMT
Organization: Sun Microsystems, Inc.
Distribution: world
Reply-To: zilch@planb.Eng.Sun.COM
NNTP-Posting-Host: planb


oops, let's try that splinter sequence again...

1S - 4C; 4H - 4S; pass                 splinter, Q bid, give up now
or
1S - 4C; 4H - 5C; 5S - pass            splinter, Q bid, one more try, give up
From: rudy@netcom.com (Rudy)
Newsgroups: rec.games.bridge
Subject: bidding after a t/o double
Date: 24 Jan 93 19:11:24 GMT
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services (408 241-9760 guest)

You hold:   AQ  AKTx  x  AQJT7x
Matchpoints
RHO  You  LHO  Pard
1S    X    P    2H
P     ?

Your plan?  I don't want to hear if you didn't double the first time,
because then you are playing in 2C and it's not even a play problem.

So, if you bid 3C you play it there, but if you bid 2S, partner bids 3H

Now what?

If you bid 4C, partner wil bid 4H.  Do you take another call?  What?
From: rh@smds.com (Richard Harter)
Newsgroups: rec.games.bridge
Subject: Re: bidding after a t/o double
Date: 26 Jan 93 05:37:42 GMT
Reply-To: rh@ishmael.UUCP (Richard Harter)
Organization: Software Maintenance & Development Systems, Inc.

In article <1993Jan25.122102.19326@linus.mitre.org> bs@gauss.mitre.org (Robert D. Silverman) writes:
>In article <1993Jan25.071235.14923@smds.com> rh@ishmael.UUCP (Richard Harter) writes:
> 
>stuff deleted...
>
>>move.  Do you disagree that Qxxxx or better in partner's hand is an
>>odds on slam?  If you do agree, do you expect partner to bid over

>Yes I disagree. You have an absolute diamond loser and must still
>take finesses in TWO suits. You need TWO entries to your hand.
>The fact that the opponents did not rebid and that the 4th hand
>did not raise spades makes it likely that partner has spade length.
>It is also likely that he has wastage in diamonds, given that the
>opponents have not bid them despite having at least 9 diamonds
>between them. You have given partner a hand that makes slam AT BEST
>on a finesse. I don't want to be there.

It's not that simple -- if we assume that KC is on the right and that
you can bring in the clubs you don't need the spade finesse.  I count
5 clubs, 5 hearts, one spade, and one diamond ruff.  Alternately, if
hearts split 2-2, 4 clubs and two diamond ruffs.  The catch is that
if hearts split 3-1 partner only has one entry with C xxx.  [If the
hearts are 4-0, the hand presumably doesn't make and the chance of
this is not negligible.]  Now I would rate the finesse as about a 
2-1 shot.  Offset against this is the possibility of entry problems.
Offset against that is the possibility that partner has six hearts,
not five [on the bidding 2H-2S-3H].

There is also the possibility that partner has the KC, although I
agree that partners honors, if he has any, are more likely to be in
diamonds.  In short, I assess this as being better than a 50-50 shot
at slam *if partner rebids hearts*.  Granting that it is, it doesn't
follow that one should bid it -- that depends on the scoring.  In a
pairs event I would think not; in rubber bridge it would.


>>2H-4H?  If not, do you feel that this is a slam "well worth missing"?

>Yes. Even if it makes, I feel this is a slam well worth missing.
>Consider that while you may miss a slam, you may also find that 4H
>is the limit of the hand should partner have, for example:

>xxxx
>Jxxx
>KQx
>xx

You misaprehend.  I was referring to hands where partner rebids hearts.
If one raises to 4H directly, you foreclose the possibility of partner
giving you that information.  On this type of hand, with a 2S bid, the
bidding goes 2H-2S-2NT-4H and that is the end of the matter.
-- 
Richard Harter: SMDS Inc.  Net address: rh@smds.com Phone: 508-369-7398 
US Mail: SMDS Inc., PO Box 555, Concord MA 01742.    Fax: 508-369-8272
In the fields of Hell where the grass grows high
Are the graves of dreams allowed to die.
Newsgroups: rec.games.bridge
From: kibler@turing.ICS.UCI.EDU (Dennis Kibler)
Subject: 7-5-1
Newsgroups: rec.games.bridge
Date: 25 Jan 93 21:43:48 GMT

Playing in a club game, the following
7-5-1 hand came. When I discussed it with
some other players, different views about the
bidding developed. So here's what happened at
our table.

You are South, vul against non-vul, and West is dealer.

                North
                 x
                 Qx
                 Qxxxxxx(7)
                 xxx

West                                East
Kxxx                                x
xxx                                 AJ10
--                                  AKJ10x
KJ10xxx(6)                          AQxx
                 South(me)
                 AQJ1098x(7)
                 K9xxx
                 x
                 --

The bidding:

West     North    East   South
 P        P        1d     1s
 p        p        X      2s
 p        p        3c     3h
 4c       p        p      p

Another player suggested that I use Michaels over 1d,
but I think the suits are two unequal in quality.

Opponents bid accurately and somehow managed to win exactly
10 tricks. It is a club game, you know.

Newsgroups: rec.games.bridge
From: mrl@nerus.pfc.mit.edu
Subject: SA-YC explained (for okbridge and beginners).
Organization: MIT PLASMA FUSION CENTER
Date: Sun, 24 Jan 1993 17:09:32 GMT

There are a lot of beginners (like myself) and okbridge players that might
benefit from the reposting of this message which explains the ACBL Yellow Card
(known as SA-YC in okbridge).

From rec.games.bridge Sat Sep 26 17:44:05 1992