From: ee52fak@sdcc15.ucsd.edu (Bryce Koike)
Newsgroups: rec.games.design
Subject: Re: A NEW line of discussion
Date: 12 Dec 92 06:35:06 GMT
Organization: University of California, San Diego

In article <1992Dec11.220435.12351@unislc.uucp> stv@unislc.uucp (Steve Spencer) writes:
>Okay everybody, I figure that just complaining about what is/isn't
>discussed in this group is not going to get me anywhere, so I'm gonna
>try and start the ball rolling. I say that we try to design a WHOLE
>NEW game (yup let's start ALL OVER AGAIN). My reasons? Not really to
>stop the progression of FUDGE, or net.rpg, or.... or.... What I
>think is that EVERY game learns things by seeing how it is done in
>other games. So, hopefully, the people working on FUDGE, and others
>will actually be able to draw from some of our ideas, as we will from
>there's. 

	One piece (hint) of advice if you really want to do this:
either only take a specific "core" of people's advice seriously or
push the game alone.  I don't mean ignore the people here (that's
worthless...), but the democratic system of RPG development just
doesn't seem doable.  It seems better to toss out some ideas, get
input, and start putting out rules.  Otherwise the game will die at
the, "How many stats should we have?" stage...

>	So here's the jist of the whole thing:
>	There has been a discussion going on in rec.games.frp.misc, 
>concerning how to do a game in which the characters are children (8-14).
>These children will grow, and get skills, and get prominent, etc. So 
>These are the things we need to look at:

	Main "difficulty" I see is that children don't necessarily
train or study to increase stats or other physical "attributes."
You can go the route GURPS has taken and just alter the stats
accordingly as time goes on, or do something else...I'm interseted
to see how this one's handled!

>	ABILITY SCORES: We need to choose things that are important as 
>	children see things. These may/may not be totally different than
>	abilities that are common in games. 

	They don't have to be.  I've run children well in AD&D as
well as GURPS.  The main idea is to think as a child does.  So far
as GURPS is concerned, you'll want to cook up some new disads and
whatnot like Spoiled Brat...etc.

>	SKILLS: What skills does a child have that would be useful to him,
>	and how do we acurately plot what skills he developes as he grows?

	For very young children (as in my Alice in Wonderland game),
they probably wouldn't have any save for Really Mediocre Math{
Makes things very easy...
	In fact, in cases like this, simple systems like Toon, TFOS,
or Fudge work quite nicely, depending on the situation(s) involved.

>	I personally feel, that if it is possible, we should have the 
>	character's ability to gain skills be based on their performance,
>	For instance, the "child" may state that he/she is paying VERY
>	close attention to SWORDFIGHTING, SNEAKING, FASTTALKING,
>	and INTERPERSONAL RELATIONS. And each time the character uses 
>	one of these skills, the GM then gives them a number of 
>	points for it. Maybe 1 point for just using the skill, and
>	another 2 or 3 points for nyh time that they use it exceptionally 
>	well. Then, after tha character reaches a set number, they gain a 
>	level in that skill.

	I would make progression EXTREMELY slow for children unless
they are specifically TRAINING in a skill.  A kid who spends all day
"sneaking around" won't necessarily get points in stealth, I think.
Only very specific attempts to learn to get better should be
considered "training" at I would only allow a few points to be
placed in a skill if that child doesn't have a teacher or tutor
helping her.  And I wouldn't put it at "each use."  That can get
really crazy.  I'd specifically set each point equivalent to a
certain amount of study time (or practice, training, whatever) with
1 point awarded for exception USE of that skill.

>	GENETICS: We need to see what growth patterns tha child will follow,
>	as they mature throughout the game. How big will they get? And at 
>	what rate? And how do we plot the time, so that they character grows
>	up throughout play?

	That should be up to the player in a lot of cases.  The
problem is out to create somewhat balanced adults out of all this.
(I'm not saying my Lawyer = your Barbarian, but at least keep things
centered in a certain area.  Although if a player wants to play a
really crippled character, that should be allowed too, I think.)

>Any help/comments anyone? For ease of title lines, I suggest (for now
>at least) that we use SOND in the title line (Start Of a New Discussion).

	Sounds as good as any.  I'd like to hear more, though.  What
sort of stats used?  What's the mechanic used for skill resolution,
etc?

>++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
>| It's the sputter of a raindrop. It's the sunlight on my face |
>| My mind's eye into other realms. It's my paradise escape.    |
>| Steve Spencer	SLC, Utah 	stv@unislc.slc.unisys.com      |
>++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Bryce Koike
bkoike@sdcc13.ucsd.edu

Newsgroups: rec.games.design