HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: coren@speed.osf.org (Robert Coren)
Subject: Re: Genetic oversimplification of homosexuality.
Organization: Open Software Foundation
Date: Thu, 5 Nov 1992 22:29:51 GMT

In article <Bx7u49.4Gq@cantua.canterbury.ac.nz>, cctr114@cantua.canterbury.ac.nz (Bill Rea) writes:
> It has been pointed out that the euphemism `finger' for the penis is not
> obvious. For those who didn't understand the `fingering' that the bulls
> were doing, they were engaging in homosexual activities. 

And, in various articles, someone else writes:

>                 __
> nelson@reed.edu \/                   Finger nelson@reed.edu for my public key

I think I understand, now.
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: gandalf@dworkin.ccs.northeastern.edu (Thomas M Farrell)
Subject: Re: OCA launches _new_ petition drive
Organization: College of Computer Science, Northeastern University
Date: Thu, 5 Nov 1992 17:03:16 GMT

In article <Bwzy2t.BLH@agora.rain.com> dorsieh@agora.rain.com (Dorsie Hathaway) writes:

   In article <Bwyp7F.ALI@agora.rain.com> bcapps@agora.rain.com (Brent Capps) writes:
   >AND NOW!  FROM THE SAME KIND FOLKS WHO BROUGHT YOU OREGON MEASURE 9!
   >
   >   *   *   *   A new initiative petition drive   *   *   *
   >
   >to establish an government committee to oversee and control radio,
   >TV and print news coverage.  All news reports would be scrutinized by
   >this committee and censored for bias.  The OCA would, of course, have
   >a seat on this committee.
   >
   Just remember, it was Pat Robertson who tried to BUY UPI 
   earlier this year.  Guess this venture is the blue-light
   special.

I thought he had SUCCEEDED in buying UPI.
		Tom

Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: "paul bobbitt" <paul.bobbitt@canrem.com>
Subject: social democracy (#2)
Reply-To: "paul bobbitt" <paul.bobbitt@canrem.com>
Organization: Canada Remote Systems
Distribution: soc
Date: 11 Nov 92 13:34:25 EST

(Continued from the previous message)

Perhaps you should reconsider your assumption that government
taxation is a bad thing...

Paul D. Bobbitt
---
  DeLuxe 1.25 #7722  Int: paul.bobbitt@canrem.com  GEnie: P.BOBBITT
--
Canada Remote Systems  - Toronto, Ontario
World's Largest PCBOARD System - 416-629-7000/629-7044
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: bob@dolores.Stanford.EDU (Bob Lodenkamper)
Subject: Re: Denver Post Article 'Politics and the Religious Right'
Organization: Computer Systems Laboratory, Stanford University
Distribution: usa
Date: 10 Nov 92 20:25:17

I know it was 785 lines long, and depressing as all hell, but please
go back and read this article if you skipped it the first time.

It offers a glimpse of what the army of the night is up to.

Thank you, Sylvan Ruud, for typing this in.

- Bob
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: krevy_b@apollo.hp.com (Bob Krevy)
Subject: Re: Pink dollar, red circle slash...
Date: Thu, 5 Nov 1992 14:52:19 GMT
Organization: Hewlett-Packard Corporation, Chelmsford, MA

In article <1992Nov5.142734.24841@wam.umd.edu> lovegod@wam.umd.edu (Donald Andrew Agarrat) writes:
>In article <1992Nov5.101922.16183@lclark.edu>  
>snodgras@lclark.edu (Bil Snodgrass) writes:
>} Here is what I would like to see.  When entering into a 
>} business I would like for the owners to place a sign on the 
>} door which depicts a Pink Dollar Bill.  This would mean that 
>} this owner is happy to service the GBLO community!
>
>Okay.  What if L.L. Bean has a chain of stores and we NEVER  
>found out where there money was going?  As long as they would  
>have that little Pink Dollar Bill, they would still be taking  
>our money.
>
>To put it simply, I spread my money around to different shops.   
>If anything ugly comes out about them, I wouldn't feel as bad as  
>plunking my money down into one ...
>
>Donald

I've been thinking about this too.  I would like to see a widespread
program of lavendar hearts (worn on lapel, printed on hardcopy items,
etc.) that would signify support.  These would be worn by everyone of
the same frame of mind (straight people as well as gays).  Supportive
businesses may choose to affix a lavendar heart to their promotional 
collateral, menus, etc., somehow.  

Just a thought.

Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: lovegod@wam.umd.edu (Donald Andrew Agarrat)
Subject: Re: Show biz power
Organization: Workstations at Maryland, University of Maryland, College Park
Date: Thu, 5 Nov 1992 14:19:00 GMT

In article <1da04iINNpv4@mizar.usc.edu> adolphso@mizar.usc.edu  
(adolphson) writes:
} Warner/Chappell Music Inc. signed Elton John and
} Bernie Taupin to a music publishing deal in which
} John and Taupin will be paid $39 million up front.
} Now how much was it that Warner/Chappell paid
} Madonna to administer *her* catalogue?  Oh yes, they
} paid her a paltry $10 million.  Seems to me that
} Elton John and Bernie Taupin are *four* *times* more
} important than Madonna.

Arne,

Madonna does more than write songs ...

Donald
From: mhr@hpuerca.atl.hp.com (Mike Reaser)
Subject: Re: the purpose of soc.motss (was: off-topic discussions)
Date: Wed, 11 Nov 1992 15:58:29 GMT
Organization: a stone mountain of Kudzu

In <1dmmi3INNdmv@mizar.usc.edu> adolphso@mizar.usc.edu (adolphson) writes:

>In article <1992Nov9.004411.5278@reed.edu> 
>nelson@reed.edu (Nelson Minar) writes:

>> I know. Let's split soc.motss! Yeah! Here's what I propose:

>Yippie!

>> soc.motss.mean (moderated by adolphso@usc.edu)

>I can already see soc.motss.mean splitting into 
>soc.motss.curmudgeon and soc.motss.bitchy despite
>my attempts to hold the factions together.

But wouldn't a third group be needed, for those seeking temporary refuge:  

       soc.motss.having.a.bad.day   ?

--
=======================================================================
 Mike Reaser, Hewlett-Packard N. Amer. Response Center - Atlanta
 Internet:  mhr@hpuerca.atl.hp.com
 NBCS: B4 f w g+ k s-               I barely speak for myself, so
 #include <standard.disclaimer>       don't make me speak for HP
=======================================================================
From: krb@hpuerca.atl.hp.com (Kevin Barnes)
Date: Mon, 2 Nov 1992 18:11:48 GMT
Subject: Re: GA Dept. of Health Passes Insane Measure
Organization: the HP Response Center, Atlanta
Newsgroups: soc.motss

Al last the Georiga Govt. has done something right.

Prevention is 99% of the cure!
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: jclander@texas.mitre.org (Julian C. Lander)
Subject: Re: Depression and anger
Reply-To: jclander@texas.mitre.org (Julian C. Lander)
Organization: The MITRE Corporation, McLean, Va
Date: Thu, 5 Nov 1992 18:03:26 GMT

In article <73750@hydra.gatech.EDU>, danny.ingram@business.gatech.edu (Danny Ingram) writes:
|> 
|> As a gay Christian I am particularly depressed.  Although my personal
|> relationship with God is the most important thing in my life, I found myself
|> questioning if it would have been better for the world if Christ had never
|> come.  Christians seem to be the major source of the hate.  Would there not be
|> a lot less hatred in the world if there were only less Christians?  It hurts.
|> 

This paragraph, I can respond to, at least partly.  Although perhaps no with
authority.  The reason that the Christian religious right is so visible in 
this country is that it is comparatively large; this is an overwhelmingly
Christian country.  (For these purposes, I mean "culturally" Christian; I
consider you Christian if some Christian church would.  Even if you assert
non-belief.  Conversion to another [incompatible, non-Christian] religion
would get you out of it.  But I digress.)

It is always the extremists of the dominant religion that are most
visible.  It's partly size, partly respect (the extremist Christians
are more like the general people of the country than are the ultra-
religious Jews, of whom more later), and partly a vision of common
feeling.  To provide a personal example:   I am Jewish, although
not particularly observant.  When I consider the issue of my own
religion and religious practice, I consider only possibilities within 
Judaism.  I do not consider it possible that I would become a 
Christian.  I suspect that, similarly, most Christians have at
least a partial understanding (not agreement) of the religious right.
(And I lack it completely.  The entire idea of Christ is, in some 
deep sense, foreign to me.  So is the concept of grace.)

In fact, in Israel, which is a Jewish state, there is a great deal
of conflict between the ultra-Orthodox and the secular Jews.  If 
anything, it is more pervasive and bitter because Israel is explicitly
Jewish, so religious law affects civil law, and because of the nature
of some Jewish laws.  For example, cars have been stoned by the ultra-
Orthodox for driving on the Sabbath.

So don't feel uncomfortable about Christianity per se.  You may want
to renounce the activities of the religious right (particularly if
you are accused publicly of aiding or agreeing with them), but that
is an intra-Christian argument; their existence no more invalidates
Christianity than (explicit political statement to follow, assume 
tongue in cheek as necessary) the Republican Party invalidates 
representative democracy.

Julian C. Lander
jclander@mitre.org


Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: jvanderw@darwin.helios.nd.edu (jeff vanderwilt)
Subject: Re: Jesus and Lazarus
Organization: OUC, University of Notre Dame
Date: Tue, 10 Nov 1992 05:36:02 GMT

>> I heard that in soc.motss was given out a story of an archaelogist
>> early in this century discovering a supressed version of one of the
>> synoptic gospels.

>I seem to have missed that article.

>> In this version,
>> Lazarus was seen at night leaving Jesus's room wearing only an
>> undergarment.  If anybody knows this story or have it, would you please email
>> it to me.

>Well, in the regular, not-suppressed version of Mark appears
>the following:

>14:51 And there followed him a certain young man, having a linen cloth
>      cast about his naked body; and the young men laid hold on him:
>   52 and he left the linen cloth, and fled from them naked.

>Frank Kermode wrote an interesting essay on this passage called
>"The Man in the Macintosh, the Boy in the Shirt", which is included
>in his book _The Genesis of Secrecy: On the Interpretation of
>Narrative_.


You will also want to see the references to the "Secret Gospel of Mark"
in John Dominic Crossan's Book, _The Historical Jesus_.
He gives the citation to the scholar who wrote his doctoral thesis on
the "Secret Gospel," of which we are said to only have a fragment, but
one which is homoerotic. 

The context is a sub-cult of early Christians, sometimes called
"Carpocratians". They lived in Alexandria and perhaps performed sexual
initiations along with a certain mystical/gnostic interpretation of
then-extant christian writings, 

Evidently they believed that Lazarus was initiated, by Christ, into
a sort of sexually induced enlightenment. . . .

Sorry I can't be more clear about it "off the cuff." Crossan gives a
good treatment of this fascinating story, but I don't own a copy, having
read a library copy. (The book *is* thick!)

jvanderw@darwin.cc.nd.edu




Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: rjwill6@PacBell.COM (Rod Williams)
Subject: Re: colorado springs
Organization: Pacific * Bell, San Francisco
Date: Fri, 13 Nov 1992 17:45:11 GMT

> gandalf@dworkin.ccs.northeastern.edu (Thomas M Farrell) writes:
>Last night, CNN Headline News reported that a student in Colorado Springs
>(it didn't say what grade level but it definitely didn't sound like college)
>was sent home to change his shirt after arriving for school in a Penguin
>(from Batman Returns) t-shirt. It seems that the principal said that the 
>shirt was unacceptable because it is "satanic." 
>
>Aparently the same student had been sent home to change his shirt before.
>On the previous occasion, his offense was wearing short sleeves.
>
>The anchorperson was indredulous.

Stories like this make *my* hair matty too :-)
-- 
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
rod williams -=- pacific bell -=- san ramon, ca -=- rjwill6@pacbell.com
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
From: aberson@enh.nist.gov
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re:  Gop's future; living with the enemy
Date: 5 Nov 92 17:12:01 GMT
Organization: NIST

In a previous article, rrizzo@star-trek.bbn.com (Ron Rizzo) wrote a 
wonderful, but very long article, of which I only discuss a small part:

>TV pundits speculated last night whether the GOP would maul itself again in
>factional infighting, as it did after Johnson's landslide against Goldwater
>in 1964. 

But they still somehow ended up winning just four years later.

>Pundits seem to think that Bush
>has about as much political credit now as Mike Dukakis, namely, zip.

I think this all depends on how he behaves as a past president.  The
best comparison I can make is to Jimmy Carter, our last one-term president
defeated in his re-election bid.  Jimmy Carter has proven himself to
be a fantastic ex-president, and as a result, his popularity and stock
have gone up greatly since his debate.  I have no illusions that Bush
will be more like Reagan than Carter in his retirement.

(As an aside, Carter has been spending much of his time working for
Habitat for Humanity.  While I used to think that they were doing
good work, but that the houses they built were shoddily built and would
not last long.  A number of HFH houses were directly in the path of
Hurricane Andrew in South Dade.  Amongst the ruin and destruction
of luxury homes and condominiums and less expensive housing, *not one* 
HFH structure suffered structural damage.)

I would like to believe that the Far Right will not take over the 
Republican Party, but it may also be true that in order to make 
the people realize how dangerous and threatening they are, the 
issues involved will have to come to the forefront of national
debate, and one of the easiest ways of doing this is for them to
take over the party.  It will be an interesting four years.


       Sim Aberson   Ft. Lauderdale, FL   aberson%3328.span@sdsc.edu
"It's always Beach Party Barbie, or Malibu Barbie....  That shit does not
prepare you for the true horror of a real woman's life.  Where is Single,
Abused, Trailer-Park Barbie?"             - Roseanne Arnold
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: ry@cbnewsl.cb.att.com (ryerson.schwark)
Subject: Re: discrimination at CMU
Organization: UNIX System Laboratories, Summit, NJ
Date: Thu, 12 Nov 1992 14:44:01 GMT

In article <1dsd2iINN3d7@mizar.usc.edu> adolphso@mizar.usc.edu (adolphson) writes:
>
>A student's sexual orientation and whether he or she is
>in or out of the closet is of no concern to an acting 
>program.  What we're talking about is how a student ACTS
>on stage.
>
>Arne

Tell that to the queers booted from the program.  You seem to find
the bigotry implausable.  I find it harder to believe that of the bunch
of queers booted, not one could act strayt enough, it just isn't
that hard.

Ry 
ry@usl.com
From: markm@ogicse.ogi.edu (Mark Morrissey)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: Mouse Balls
Date: 10 Nov 92 02:07:54 GMT
Article-I.D.: ogicse.45552
Organization: Oregon Graduate Institute (formerly OGC), Beaverton, OR

In article <1992Nov9.233028.22047@spdcc.com> dyer@spdcc.com (Steve Dyer) writes:
>The memo itself is pretty funny; it originated on IBM's VNET 3-4 years ago

Sorry, Steve, but the first time I actualy got a copy of said memo in my
hands (which was long after I heard of it) was in 1983 or 84.  One of my
coworkers who is a veteran of the early days of Xerox Parc claims that
it originated there as a slam on big blue who was trying to make gobs
of money on yet another Xerox invention (yes, Parc did invent the mouse).

--mark
--
Mark Morrissey           One Hatred to rule them all.  One Hatred to find them.
markm@cse.ogi.edu        One Hatred to bring them all and in the darkness bind
                         them.  In the land of Bigotry where the Shadows lie.
From: jns@elea.umd.edu (J. N. Shaumeyer)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: Ageism and Not-Ageism
Date: 3 Nov 92 20:06:42 GMT
Organization: Militant Homosexual Lobby, Gay Lifestyles, Inc.


Steve Dyer (dyer@spdcc.com) wrote:
 
> Frankly, after seeing Polaroids of RobertandJohn taken 15 years ago
> (gosh, did they have SX-70 film back then?), I can't decide whether
> they look older or younger today.  Lycanthropy tends to smooth out
> the finer features, not that it isn't a fine feature all by itself.

If nothing else, it certainly adds texture.

--jns
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: rhayden@oracle.com (Ronald Hayden)
Subject: Re: Homosexuals raising children
Organization: Oracle Corporation, Belmont, Ca.
	<1992Nov12.191509.25143@lsa.umich.edu>
Date: Sat, 14 Nov 1992 00:31:23 GMT
X-Disclaimer: This message was written by an unauthenticated user
              at Oracle Corporation.  The opinions expressed are those
              of the user and not necessarily those of Oracle.

In article <1992Nov12.191509.25143@lsa.umich.edu> ttoon@saxon.ling.lsa.umich.edu (Thomas Toon) writes:

>	One thing I have thoguht to wonder:  Does all this acceptance we find  
>mean that people are open to homosexuals in general, or is it a much more  
>personally based acceptance of us as individuals?  The facts of my sexuality  
>seem to make almost no difference to my friends and colleagues, but the general  
>issue of sexuality might still be problematic.

I don't know if people are open in general, but my experience in the
last couple of months has been coming out at work (no problems at
all), and getting in contact with my siblings for the first time in 6
years.  None of my siblings accepts my sexuality (they're all
Christians), but for two of them I'm clearly more important than my
sexuality.  For the third, well, she's talking about how everything in
Revelations is starting to come true...

But even with her I could communicate, talk about my partner, etc.

My parents, no way.

So I guess the summary is that my experience runs the spectrum of
responses.  Also, the negative responses for me so far are all keyed
into religion.  The less crucial religion is to the person, the less
of a hang-up they seem to have.


--

  - Ronald Hayden

    ----------------------------------------------------------------
   | Documentation Manager, Oracle Toolkit Group                    |
   | Co-chair of Oracle Lambda, Oracle's Gay/Lesbian/Bisexual group |
   | Writer, magician, and various other things                     |
    ----------------------------------------------------------------
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: h431@quads.uchicago.edu (heather e blair)
Subject: Prometheus Books
Reply-To: h431@midway.uchicago.edu
Organization: University of Chicago Computing Organizations
Date: Mon, 9 Nov 1992 03:51:51 GMT

I just read that hideous book "Half Straight: My Secret Bisexual Life"
by Tom Smith (pseud).  It's part of a series "New Concepts in Human
Sexuality" that Prometheus Books is putting out.

Does anyone here know anything about Prometheus Books, this particular
series, or the series editor, Vern L. Bullough, PhD?  I'd like to know 
what the goals for this series are, and whether the books in it are 
supposed to support a particular point of view.  I have a hunch, but I'd
better get some facts.

Thanks!

-- 

- Heather Blair       h431@midway.uchicago.edu
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: dyer@spdcc.com (Steve Dyer)
Subject: Re: the purpose of soc.motss (was: off-topic discussions)
Organization: S.P. Dyer Computer Consulting, Cambridge MA
Date: Sun, 8 Nov 1992 21:23:35 GMT

In article <1djqkhINNor7@mizar.usc.edu> adolphso@mizar.usc.edu (adolphson) writes:
>Look, doll, the fact that I'm a nelly faggot colors -- hell,
>practically determines -- everything I think about, everything 
>I write about, everything I talk about.

Well, you did a good Bob Sarver imitation when you visited Boston!
You were _so_ butch! (Big Arne smiley here.)

>I don't draw these
>distinctions between the gay and the not-gay aspects of my
>life that you seem able to do with yours,

Well, you know these class-of-'94's: not-gay is what they study in
school and how they act in class, and gay is what they do when they
get together amongst themselves to dance on the tables with the
shades drawn.  Or maybe they debate politics these days; I'm not
sure.

>and I would actively
>campaign against any attempt to muzzle soc.motss.  Could you
>please explain what it is, exactly, that you'd like to see
>written about here to the exclusion of all else?

Indeed.  I can't wait to read this.

-- 
Steve Dyer
dyer@ursa-major.spdcc.com aka {ima,harvard,rayssd,linus,m2c}!spdcc!dyer
From: rhiann@carson.u.washington.edu (Sandra Hereld)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: best remake of gay song
Date: 11 Nov 92 17:38:05 GMT
Article-I.D.: u.1992Nov11.173805.12248
Organization: University of Washington, Seattle

In article <1992Nov10.225311.21409@midway.uchicago.edu> omt1@midway.uchicago.edu writes:
>In article <Nov.10.13.56.13.1992.19564@math.rutgers.edu> bgonzal@math.rutgers.edu (Bil Gonzalez) writes:
>
>Thoughts on Cyndi? Other artists who can be read ambiguously? 
>Crowded House, in their eponymous album, is my favorite in 
>this regard. I'll post or e-mail lyrics if anyone is curious.

Actually, my current beef is just the oppisite; gay groups who sing
songs that can't be told from any other...
I just got Kitchens of Distinction (love the name) first album, and
if I hadn't known they were gay before I bought it, I never would have
known from anything in the album itself.   Aarrggghhhh!

--
Sandy
			You know your culture from your trash
			You know your plastic from your cash...
				Peter Gabriel	Us
From: carlson@ab24.larc.nasa.gov (Ann Carlson)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Military madness (was: Gay Sailor Reinstated)
Date: 13 Nov 1992 18:47:24 GMT
Organization: NASA Langley Research Center, Hampton, VA  USA
Distribution: world
NNTP-Posting-Host: ab24.larc.nasa.gov

In article <1e0k94INN1h7@master.cs.rose-hulman.edu>, colemk@NeXTwork.Rose-Hulman.Edu (Matthew K Cole) writes:
|> 
|>  I heard this morning on the Today show that the Navy or  
|> Pentagon, I am not sure which, was quoted as saying that they would never  
|> repeal their ban on gays in the military.  They even went as far as to say  
|> that even if Clinton lifts the ban they will not comply.  I guess I have  
|> been operating under the false assumption that since the President is the  
|> Commander in Chief of all armed forces, that what he says generally goes,  
|> whether he says go and fight in the desert or let gays into the military.
|> 
|> Matthew

The paper this morning says that even if Clinton issues an executive order
to repeal the ban on gays in the military, sodomy will remain a felony in 
the Uniform Code of Military Justice.  Apparently that can't be changed by
something as simple as an executive order.  I expect people like the ones
mentioned above might try to harass known gay men in the military with the
application of that code.  Darn!  I was hoping that the transition would be
easier, but I'm still betting on Clinton to see it through.
-- 



*************************************************      
*Dr. Ann B. Carlson (a.b.carlson@larc.nasa.gov) *       O .
*MS 366                                         *         o  _///_ //
*NASA Langley Research Center                   *          <`)=  _<<
*Hampton, VA 23681-0001                         *             \\\  \\
*************************************************
Newsgroups: soc.motss