HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: vagrant@vpnet.chi.il.us (Guy Umbright)
Subject: Tentative date on 1.1?
Organization: Vpnet - Free Usenet access
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1 PL8]
Date: Mon, 21 Dec 1992 20:12:13 GMT

Jawaid (and all the rest), do you guys have a tentative date for 
release 1.1 of GNO/ME?  Is it close? far? extra-dimensional?
Just wodering..


(P.S.  an answer like 'GNO, not yet' will be dealt with in a most
 severe fashion   :)  )
-- 
: vagrant@vpnet.chi.il.us  :  A man said to the universe:     : Stephen    :
: or vagrant@holonet.net   :    "Sir, I exist!"               : Crane      :
:                          :  "The fact has not created in me : 1899       :
:  Apple II Forever        :   a sense of obligation."        :            :
From: stc7@cunixb.cc.columbia.edu (Steven T Chiang)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.apple2.gno
Subject: Re: Shell Utilities
Date: 3 Jan 93 22:41:08 GMT
Reply-To: stc7@cunixb.cc.columbia.edu (Steven T Chiang)
Organization: Columbia University

In article <2B4440A0.9409@ics.uci.edu> jimmys@ics.uci.edu (Jimmy Shaw) writes:
>I was wondering if there anyy shell programs (EXE)that will play
>sounds files (Raw, ACEd, rSounds, etc) and display pictures
>(APF, 3200, etc.)  I've checked the usually places like cco,
>wuarchive, etc., and didn't find any.

	Chris Mckinsey wrote See and Hear.  See will let you view most
graphics formats (besides DG format)... and hear will let you listen
to SS and maybe SynthLAB songs..  I dunno if they are on ftp, but they
are on Genie or AOL.

>Jimmy Shaw		      RamFAST, ZipGSX and 6.0... Apple II Forever!

btw - I got your mail, but I'm at 2400 baud right now, so I'm only
replying to short messages... :)

Steven Chiang                  Order - DreamGrafix:  The ONLY 16/256/3200
stc7@cunixb.cc.columbia.edu       color paint program for the Apple IIGS.
America On_Line:  DWS Steve
Genie:  S.Chiang4              Apple IIGS Forever!
Newsgroups: comp.sys.apple2.gno
From: bird@cbnewsd.cb.att.com (j.l.walters)
Subject: Re: Why csh? (Re: unshar needed & sh dis...)
Organization: AT&T
Date: Fri, 25 Dec 1992 04:05:42 GMT

From article <jpenne.725237760@ee.ualberta.ca>, by jpenne@ee.ualberta.ca (Jerry Penner):
> Just a question (as the subject line says), why did you go with 'csh'
> compatibility in the first place?  Unix csh is broken (as far as
> programming the thing goes.  Its command line interface works fine,
> except that it lacks command line editing and most versions I've
> played with don't have filename completion working).  The other
> shells like ksh, bash, etc are better...  Of course, this is just an
> interest-based question since you're obviously not going to change it
> now.

I think that this is a very serious quesion. At one point in time
BSD was very much in advance of AT&T Unix, however, with the advent
of ksh, this IMO is not at all true now.

As a person that is PANTING to come up with the money to buy GNO,
and will in the near future, I really will expect ksh like things
when I do spring for the price. Please let me know if ksh is NOT
going to be part of the GNO future so I can start beating my head
against the wall now.

Don't know if it applies, however, it really galls me under ORCA
to not be able to type: emacs fi f2 f3, ... and not be able to
type ^XN to access the next file f2, etc.

-- 

		Joe Walters att!ihlpm!bird, IH 2A-227 (708) 224-7189
		To know, and not to do, is not yet to know
Newsgroups: comp.sys.apple2.gno
From: bazyar@teal.csn.org (Jawaid Bazyar)
Subject: Re: Tentative date on 1.1?
Organization: Colorado SuperNet, Inc.
Date: Tue, 22 Dec 1992 06:05:56 GMT

vagrant@vpnet.chi.il.us (Guy Umbright) writes:

>Jawaid (and all the rest), do you guys have a tentative date for 
>release 1.1 of GNO/ME?  Is it close? far? extra-dimensional?
>Just wodering..

>(P.S.  an answer like 'GNO, not yet' will be dealt with in a most
> severe fashion   :)  )

  :-)

  We don't know precisely what's in store for us (and the kernel)
for the TCP/IP implementaiton; when we have a better handle on that
we'll do some man-hours estimates.  This will happen within a few
weeks.

  Past that, I can't say.  There's a lot of stuff going into 1.1
and most of it depends on the TCP/IP code or will be driven by the
design of that code.

-- 
 Jawaid Bazyar              |   Ask me about the GNO Multitasking Environment
 Procyon, Inc.              |   for the Apple IIgs!   
 bazyar@cs.uiuc.edu         |   P.O Box 620334
 --Apple II Forever!--      |   Littleton, CO 80162-0334   (303) 933-4649
From: vandry@CAM.ORG (Phillip Vandry)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.apple2.gno
Subject: Re: csa2g archived anywhere?
Date: 21 Dec 92 16:46:12 GMT
Organization: Champlain Regional College, St-Lambert QC CANADA

glyn@cs.UAlberta.CA (Reade Glyn Devin) writes:
>The problem is that I didn't save the conversation on the 
>Finder's "need xxxk memory and system 6.0 to run" since I
>hadn't as yet ordered gno, and I now need the solution.

It's very simple. Currently there is no solution :)
 ______________________________________________________________________
|~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~|~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~|~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~|
| Phillip Vandry | Vandry@Cam.Org | Merry Christmas II you!            |
|________________|________________|____________________________________|
 ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
From: snakey@pro-cynosure.cts.com (David Ross)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.apple2.gno
Subject: Toolbox Programming
Date: 31 Dec 1992 01:31:39 -0600
Organization: ProLine [pro-cynosure]
NNTP-Posting-Host: cs.utexas.edu

        Hi all!  (IRC people - I shall return!!!)  I have been working on a
rather large Pascal program which generates a bunch of fractals at once.  I
used to call this multitasking, but I was informed by someone one day that
using the strict definition of multitasking, it was not.  Ok, so whatever
the hell it is, here are my problems:

1.  The main event loop takes a WHILE, and so if you do an 
    operation involving clicking and dragging, there seems 
    to be this GS/OS bug that appears.  It does the action 
    sometimes, but it doesn't show the important part, what
    you are doing.  For example, sometimes, when I click on
    a scroll bar, it will drag it in it's mind, and when I 
    let go, it will go to the place that I have dragged it 
    to, but it won't show me the little box going up and down
    as I pull the mouse up and down.  It will only update it
    after I let go!  This also happens in another place.  Is
    there any way to put events on hold while one is not in 
    the 'main' main event loop?

2.  When I make a block of memory with NewHandle, for use as
    a graphport for storing what is in a window, the bottom 
    of it will be garbage.  For instance, with a 640x400 pixel
    block of memory, anything below line 200 will be junk.  
    The boundsrect is ok, and so is the amount of memory.  I'm
    stumped.

3.  In order to follow technote #4's directions for changing
    modes, I have to shut down Quickdraw.  I used a resource
    to start all of the tools, so I don't know Quickdraw's 
    direct page to restart it!  What should I do?!?!?

Well there they are!  Any and all help would be imensely appreciated, but
due to the sheer volume of all the messages here, I would really appreciate
it if any answers were sent by e-mail.  Also, anyone have a copy of
Complete Pascal that they would be willing to part with?  I'm not gonna
risk sending $$$ to that guy, I have heard that he sometimes doesn't send
the products out, but keeps the $$$!  Anyway, in regards to these
programming problems, any help would be greatly appreciated and would
certainly earn you a place in the credits.  The final program will be
public domain.  All of the fractal fans out there can look for a beta
version to be out in just a few months.

                                           /\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\:>-
                                           Snakey
----
ProLine:  snakey@pro-iisysops
Internet: snakey@pro-iisysops.cts.com
UUCP:     crash!pro-iisysops!snakey
ARPA:     crash!pro-iisysops!snakey@nosc.mil
From: vandry@CAM.ORG (Phillip Vandry)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.apple2.gno
Subject: Re: Shells
Date: 30 Dec 92 18:43:38 GMT
Organization: Champlain Regional College, St-Lambert QC CANADA

unknown@Apple.COM (Matt Ackeret) writes:

>In article <BzzEGz.73G@CAM.ORG> vandry@CAM.ORG (Phillip Vandry) writes:
>>Anyone use zsh? It's a really excellent shell. But it's huge and I don't

>cshell does that too, at least the versions I've used. (Yes I know it's
>not your main point.. just pointing out that it's not a zsh-specific 
>thing. I've never heard of zsh actually)

I think it just got out of beta. It seemed a LOT better than ksh, which is the
default on this UNIX machine, so I started using it. I've never used csh, so I
can't compare.

>sz `find /tmp -user unknown -print` is a good example that I use fairly
>often, especially when my files don't all end in *SHK (in which case I'd just
>do "sz *SHK" of course).

>>Also, history substitutions. If, for example, you want to add an alias to
>>your system, you do this.
>>alias stuff otherstuff
>>echo !1 >>~/gshrc               - echo the previous line to the file.
>>!1 means first line in the history, !2, the second, and so on.

>	Isn't that backwards? Aren't the history lines in ascending order
>chronologically?

You could very well be right... I don't use it enough to remember which way it
goes.

>>gsh also needs a way to run a series of proceses in the background, but
>>sequentially.
>>( process1 ; process2 ; process3 ) &
>>run them one after the other.

>ooh, never heard of that.. Sounds interesting.

The simplest use of that is a background timer (wake up in two minutes...)

(sleep 120;echo \\007)&

 ______________________________________________________________________
|~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~|~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~|~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~|
| Phillip Vandry | Vandry@Cam.Org | Merry Christmas II you!            |
|________________|________________|____________________________________|
 ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

>-- 
>unknown@apple.com		Apple II Forever
>unknown@ucscb.ucsc.edu  These opinions are mine--hell, I'm 'just' a contractor.
From: glenn@cis.ksu.edu (Glenn S Goldstein)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.apple2.gno
Subject: Re: Z-modem receive
Date: 28 Dec 1992 21:00:56 GMT
Organization: Kansas State University, Dept. of Computing and Information Sciences
NNTP-Posting-Host: depot.cis.ksu.edu

I've been using telcom under GNO/ME and have found it better than my
previous programs.  However, I would like to receive files from my
unix server at school via the z-modem protocol.  Does anyone know
where I might find such a program?
Newsgroups: comp.sys.apple2.gno
From: henigan@quando.quantum.de (Kevin Henigan)
Subject: Re: cc ... & dmake
Organization: Quantum Software GmbH, Dortmund, Germany
Date: Tue, 22 Dec 1992 12:09:55 GMT

In article <1h5c80INN9ba@charnel.ecst.csuchico.edu> jamesb@ecst.csuchico.edu (James L. Brookes) writes:
>
>As soon as I finish dmake, porting stuff should be quite a bit easier,
>what with dmake and cc ... 

Hey, now were talking, a real make for gno, when this is ready then porting
other un*x stuff will be easy...

Please let me know when it's ready, if you're looking for testers then let
me know.

The new version of gsh will support if/then/else etc... is it compatible
enough to unpack un*x shar files or to run un*x sh scripts.

>:::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::
>|          James Brookes            | Inet: bb252@cleveland.freenet.edu |
>|``What, me worry?'' - A. E. Neuman |   jamesb@cscihp.ecst.csuchico.edu |
>:::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::


-- 
 Kevin Henigan. UUCP:     {backbone}!unido!quando!henigan OR henigan@quando.uucp
  Quantum GmbH  Bitnet:   henigan%quando@UNIDO(.bitnet)
    Dortmund    internet: henigan@quantum.de, or henigan@quando.quantum.de
    Germany     advert  : PEDIGREE - the only genealogy IIGS prog with a GUI
Newsgroups: comp.sys.apple2.gno
From: bazyar@teal.csn.org (Jawaid Bazyar)
Subject: Re: Multiple Desktop Applications
Organization: Colorado SuperNet, Inc.
Date: Tue, 29 Dec 1992 06:05:47 GMT

johnmac@fawlty.towers.oz.au (John MacLean) writes:

>Would it be possible to:

>- Intercept all toolbox calls to desktop related toolsets
>(eg: window manager, menu manager, quickdraw, qd aux, etc).

>- Keep an array of main window handles, one for each application
>(process-id) that is started.

>- Re-direct all screen oriented calls to operate on the main window
>of the appropriate application.

>- In this way, have multiple applications running on the desktop under
>GNO, with each application running in a scaleable window with a menu bar.

>Has anyone given this (or something similar) some thought?

  John,

  Lots of thought.  First off, there are lots of programs that people
will (reasonably) expect to run from such an environment.  The ones
I'm referring to, like modZap, soniqTracker, Finder, synthLab, Platinum
Paint, and many other, all write directly to the screen.  This is a big
problem and it's highly unlikely anyone will ever change these apps
to not write directly to the screen.

  Other than that, what you noted above is just a few of the things
that Switch-It! does to make its application switching environment
work for most programs.

-- 
 Jawaid Bazyar              |   Ask me about the GNO Multitasking Environment
 Procyon, Inc.              |   for the Apple IIgs!   
 bazyar@cs.uiuc.edu         |   P.O Box 620334
 --Apple II Forever!--      |   Littleton, CO 80162-0334   (303) 933-4649
Newsgroups: comp.sys.apple2.gno
From: jpenne@ee.ualberta.ca (Jerry Penner)
Subject: Why csh? (Re: unshar needed & sh dis...)
Organization: University Of Alberta, Edmonton Canada
Date: Thu, 24 Dec 1992 22:56:00 GMT

bazyar@teal.csn.org (Jawaid Bazyar) writes:

>henigan@quando.quantum.de (Kevin Henigan) writes:
>>The new version of gsh will support if/then/else etc... is it compatible
>>enough to unpack un*x shar files or to run un*x sh scripts.

>  No; gsh is based on csh, and always will be.  All Hail the High Grandeur
>of Bill Joy!

Just a question (as the subject line says), why did you go with 'csh'
compatibility in the first place?  Unix csh is broken (as far as
programming the thing goes.  Its command line interface works fine,
except that it lacks command line editing and most versions I've
played with don't have filename completion working).  The other
shells like ksh, bash, etc are better...  Of course, this is just an
interest-based question since you're obviously not going to change it
now.

I don't own GNO so I'm also wondering how tightly coupled is the GNO
kernel to the 'gsh' shell?  Can it be replaced with something else or
would you have to start up another shell from inside it.  It would be
cool to have 'chsh /bin/ksh' work in GNO.

>  But seriously, I've got code for an sh clone, and will finish a port
>as soon as I add more robust UNIX-style fork() support to GNO.  I'll
>actually be adding vfork(), which the sh clone can be modified to use
>instead of regular UNIX fork.

Sounds good.
-- 
Jerry Penner   jpenne@ee.ualberta.ca   Try a 1-line .sig today.
From: unknown@Apple.COM (Matt Ackeret)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.apple2.gno
Subject: Re: Shells
Date: 28 Dec 92 23:28:19 GMT
Organization: Apple Computer Inc, Cupertino, CA

In article <BzzEGz.73G@CAM.ORG> vandry@CAM.ORG (Phillip Vandry) writes:
>Anyone use zsh? It's a really excellent shell. But it's huge and I don't

>There are a few things from zsh that would be nice for GNO, though. 
>echo `qtime`         - replaces `qtime` with the standard output from qtime,
>                       then passes that as a paramater to echo.

cshell does that too, at least the versions I've used. (Yes I know it's
not your main point.. just pointing out that it's not a zsh-specific 
thing. I've never heard of zsh actually)

What kinds of things does zsh do that cshell doesn't?

>You could do the same thing with just qtime, but there are cases when it's not
>that simple (I can't remember now, of course :), but I would have used that
>once a while ago)

sz `find /tmp -user unknown -print` is a good example that I use fairly
often, especially when my files don't all end in *SHK (in which case I'd just
do "sz *SHK" of course).

>Also, history substitutions. If, for example, you want to add an alias to
>your system, you do this.
>alias stuff otherstuff
>echo !1 >>~/gshrc               - echo the previous line to the file.
>!1 means first line in the history, !2, the second, and so on.

	Isn't that backwards? Aren't the history lines in ascending order
chronologically?

>gsh also needs a way to run a series of proceses in the background, but
>sequentially.
>( process1 ; process2 ; process3 ) &
>run them one after the other.

ooh, never heard of that.. Sounds interesting.
-- 
unknown@apple.com		Apple II Forever
unknown@ucscb.ucsc.edu  These opinions are mine--hell, I'm 'just' a contractor.
Newsgroups: comp.sys.apple2.gno
From: bbs-bdoherty@jwt.UUCP (Benjamin Doherty)
Subject: Re: Jive and ValSpeak Posted
Reply-To: bbs-bdoherty@jwt.UUCP
Organization: The Matrix
Date: Wed, 23 Dec 1992 12:54:12 GMT

bazyar@teal.csn.org (Jawaid Bazyar) writes:

...stuff about Jive and ValSpeak...

> Both utilities require GNO/ME.

Great!  I didn't see that, so now I guess I have to buy GNO?  I think
I'll wait until 1.1 is out...  The Jive and ValSpeak can wait for
just a little while.  (I HOPE it's a little while!)

InterNET: bbs-bdoherty@jwt.uucp               |   FidoNET: sysop@1:363/152
          jwt!bbs-bdoherty@peora.sdc.ccur.com | FutureNET: #109@#3
          ...!peora!jwt!bbs-bdoherty          |   ProLine: bdoherty@pro-magic
From: bazyar@teal.csn.org (Jawaid Bazyar)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.apple2.gno
Subject: Jive and ValSpeak Posted
Date: 22 Dec 92 23:35:53 GMT
Organization: Colorado SuperNet, Inc.

Jive and ValSpeak shell utilities have been posted to comp.binaries.apple2
and also placed on the Pindarus FTP site.

Jive and ValSpeak process English text into interesting and usually
humorous Jive Talk and Valley Girl Speak mutations of English.
Any computer without these is _not cool_. :-)

Both utilities require GNO/ME.

-- 
 Jawaid Bazyar              |   Ask me about the GNO Multitasking Environment
 Procyon, Inc.              |   for the Apple IIgs!   
 bazyar@cs.uiuc.edu         |   P.O Box 620334
 --Apple II Forever!--      |   Littleton, CO 80162-0334   (303) 933-4649
Newsgroups: comp.sys.apple2.gno
From: jpenne@ee.ualberta.ca (Jerry Penner)
Subject: Re: Why csh? (Re: unshar needed & sh dis...)
Organization: University Of Alberta, Edmonton Canada
Date: Sun, 27 Dec 1992 01:50:00 GMT

bazyar@teal.csn.org (Jawaid Bazyar) writes:

>  gsh takes a lot of inspiration from tcsh, the modern derivative of
>csh, which provides command-line editing, smarter path handling,
>and filename and command completion.

Good.

>  We never studied a whole lot on any aspect of why csh's script
>language might be considered 'broken'.  Can you provide some examples?

I can only think of one off the top of my head, but csh has a bug when
you type 'if ( expression...' and you forget the spaces around the (.
There are others.  I basically quit using 'csh' when I ran into stuff
like this and forgot about its problems.  Since you guys didn't port
csh you won't have run into these types of problems.

>  gsh is completely (100%) decoupled from the kernel.  We did it just
>like Unix because, well, Unix did it right :)  chsh .. is trivial,
>but right now gsh is the only shell we've got.  I expect this to
>change in the future.  gsh also provides some IIgs-specific
>support that the Unix based shells cannot (like AppleWorks _and_ emacs
>style command line editing).

Sounds good.
-- 
Jerry Penner   jpenne@ee.ualberta.ca   Try a 1-line .sig today.
Newsgroups: comp.sys.apple2.gno
From: bazyar@teal.csn.org (Jawaid Bazyar)
Subject: Re: Shells
Organization: Colorado SuperNet, Inc.
Date: Wed, 30 Dec 1992 08:20:29 GMT

Tom Christiansen <tchrist@convex.COM> writes:

>From the keyboard of bazyar@teal.csn.org (Jawaid Bazyar):
>:>That's named pipes as UNIX implements them, isn't it?
>:>Well, most of that stuff is a wish list anyway.
>:
>:  The socket interface is probably equivalent in functionality; I've
>:considered named pipes, but sockets are much more flexible and
>:named pipes aren't used anymore, really.

>"named pipes aren't used anymore"?  i don't think that's accurate.

  I've rarely come across code that uses them (in fact, can't think
of any off the top of my head).  If you can enlighten me, as I've
mentioned before (and will undoubtedly mention again), I'm
open to suggestions.  Named pipes wouldn't take that much effort,
but I'd like to get the next GNO release out as soon as possible.

-- 
 Jawaid Bazyar              |   Ask me about the GNO Multitasking Environment
 Procyon, Inc.              |   for the Apple IIgs!   
 bazyar@cs.uiuc.edu         |   P.O Box 620334
 --Apple II Forever!--      |   Littleton, CO 80162-0334   (303) 933-4649
Newsgroups: comp.sys.apple2.gno
From: ltchean@rambutan.iss.nus.sg (Lim Thye Chean)
Subject: What language?
Originator: ltchean@rambutan
Organization: Institute of Systems Science, NUS, Singapore
Date: Tue, 22 Dec 1992 02:20:48 GMT

I am now using Orca/M and TML Pascal II for my Apple IIGS programs. I used
Orca/M for games and demos, and TML Pascal II for my other programs.

I am very interested in designing arcade game using higher-level langauge
rather than assembly, and also like to do programming using the toolbox.

So my questions is:

1) What language (besides assembly) allows me to write games easily without
   menu and windows interface? Assembly is nice, but it is difficult to do
   path, complicated animation, etc.

2) What language allows me to write desktop program easily? TML Pascal II
   is nice for writing non-desktop program (like my Mandelbrot II GS), but
   the resource editor is next to useless. The Complete Pascal II is a joke,
   it never arrived even after a year.

3) Yes, of course these languages have to be System 6-compatible. Any 
   recommended book for me to learn? I have written a full desktop painting
   program in System 4 toolbox using TML Pascal. When System 5 and TML Pascal
   II arrives, the header file changes so much, and all those Apple IIGS
   books found in Singapore only supports up to System 4.

I am especially interested in these languages: 

1) Complete Pascal II 
   - anybody actually have this package and care to talk about it? 
   - is it system 6 compatible?
   - is the resource editor good?
   - is it bug free? 
   - if it is good, anybody want to sell it to me? OK, I won't buy it from
     Complete Technology, it is the same as throwing money into water.

2) Micol Advanced Basic
   - is it System 6 compatible? 
   - is it fast? 
   - is it easy to use?

3) Orca/C 2.0
   - is it very difficult to use? Did I need to learn all 3 books of
     toolbox references before I can start writing a useful program?
   - what exactly does it have?

Thanks for any comment.


-- 
    %% GS Lover Loves GS %%    Author of Super Magic 3 & Mandelbrot II GS
    %%  and Avatar too.  %%   
          Lim Thye Chean: Lim is my surname. My name is Thye Chean.
     My address: LTCHEAN@ISS.NUS.SG, or 9, College Green, Singapore 1129