From: mazur@inmet.camb.inmet.com (Beth Mazur)
Newsgroups: alt.support.diet
Subject: Re: vacation from hell
Date: 10 Sep 92 22:30:36 GMT
Organization: Intermetrics Inc, Cambridge MA

In article <1992Sep9.135315.1552@newstand.syr.edu> mprisco@lynx.cat.syr.edu writes:
>Maybe you're right, Steve.  I didn't think of it that way.  I think what
>really bugs me is that I really felt like I lost control in the
>chinese restaurant -- I'm not a control freak, but its nice to have 
>some self control...

The truth is that you had the control you wanted at the time, no?  If 
someone had told you that the fried rice would be $50, you would likely
have said "no thanks."  Similarly, if you knew you would be violently
ill if you ate the rice, you also probably would have skipped it.  So
what made this situation different?  Well, if I knew, I'd make a million
dollars, because I think that, whatever it is, it afflicts millions of
Americans who *say* they want to lose weight, and then proceed to
*behave* in a way that they *know* will prevent them from losing.

Like me, for instance.  I have been fighting my overeating for all my
post-puberty years (that's over 20 years).  Why struggle?  Because I
want to be thin and have what thin people have.  <Please--this is not
an invite for a "you have to be happy at your current weight" lecture.>
Why struggle?  Because even though I supposedly want to be thin, I am
often unable to "delay gratification" when food is in front of my face.

The Rational Recovery folks talk about their first step (they have 11 
compared to OA's 12) as being something on the order of "I accept
responsibility for what I eat, for ultimately I am in control of my
limbs and mouth" rather than the bleak "I am powerless over food" of
the OA camp (like it was Entenmann's who was stuffing donuts into my
face the other night...).

Anyways, the RR folks talk about the "beast" who is that inner voice
that goads you into eating.  Frankly, I like "inner child" better (although
I am not a big "recovery" fan).  Picture a two-year-old in a supermarket
screaming for candy.  Picture the mother or father giving in, because
they cannot successfully discipline the child, who then gets worse the
next time.  I think that is the underlying problem with overeating.
We have the screaming "inner children" or "ids" or "child ego state"
or whatever your favorite psych theorist may call it who have gotten
really good at getting their way in a supermarket (as Tom can attest),
a restaurant, at home, at work, and, my personal favorite, in the car.

Behavioral approaches, such as Steve suggested (don't shop before dinner),
are pretty effective.  But I tend to agree with the RR folks who suggest
that we must train ourselves to endure some suffering--and shop while
hungry, put our small dinners on big plates, and turn down the trip to
the candy machine.  Basically, I think it means approaching eating like
thin people do--with "adult" behaviors, rather than "child" behaviors.

The RR folks basically call this "eating the right food, in the right
amounts, at the right time."  This doesn't mean never eating a donut 
again--it means, that if you have decided to lose weight, accepting
responsibility for what you put in your mouth.  Because RR is based
on rational-emotive therapy, it also means questioning your eating
prior to eating, rather than after (as Steve suggested, although better
after than not at all).

Well, I've rambled on long enough.  I don't mean to be unsupportive,
but I have to say that I recognize the "no self control" theme as being
one I'm intimately familiar with.  I still binge myself, but now I just
get back on the horse.  

I've just finished reading a very good book by Wendy Kaminer called
"I'm Dysfunctional, You're Dysfunctional."  It's a very interesting
anti-recovery book.  Anyways, Ms. Kaminer makes the following point--
she offers no "quick cures" that are so prevalent in the self-help
field, in fact, she claims that she only knows one cure, and it's
a hard one: education.

I feel that way about eating control.  There is no quick fix, or magic
pill, or anything that anyone can post in an article that will end
your (or mine) overeating problems.  The only thing that will do that
is hard work and learning as much as you can about the process.  Only
after you do that can you decide whether you are willing to give up
a very attractive short-term pleasure (eating) for a longer term
pleasure (normal body weight).

Beth Mazur                   "...life is more than a vision.  The sweetest
mazur@inmet.inmet.com         part is acting after making a decision."
...!uunet!inmet!mazur                                  -- The Indigo Girls
From: brooksp@hpcc01.corp.hp.com (Peter Brooks)
Date: Tue, 8 Sep 1992 19:28:41 GMT
Subject: Re: Bicycle Question: was Re: Congrats!!!
Organization: the HP Corporate notes server