From: eshghi@hplabsz.hpl.hp.com (Kave Eshghi)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.iranian
Subject: Re: Fundamentals WUZ Re: More questions for Anwar Saleh
Date: 29 Jul 92 17:29:30 GMT
Organization: Hewlett-Packard Laboratories Palo Alto,CA

I wrote (in response to an article by Ahmad)

>>what you are
>>doing is providing grist for the mill of all the 'trendy' racists who
>>think Muslims are a bunch of fanatical half wits, to be forever kept
>>in check by force.

Aref wrote:

>Are they not "a bunch of fanatical half wits"? Let me rephrase that. As
>with any other belief/religion/ideology/etc. there are people whose
>personal lives is based on certain guidelines and structure as defined
>by their belief/religion/etc. They adhere to those while refraining from
>imposing them on others. More power to those people. HOWEVER, from a 
>pragmatic standpoint, the present "Islamic" governments and rulers
>are "a bunch of fanatical half wits", not because of their belief
>or claimed belief in Islam, but because of their actions. I am tired
>of forcing myself to believe that "Islam is good, Islam is this, Islam
>is that. It is just that some believers because of whatever reason, commit
>acts or do things that are un- or anti- Islamic." Nonesense. From a 
>practical perspective it does not matter what Islam says or preaches.
>What matters is the lives and faiths that are affected by the Islamic
>governments, etc. I believe there is a lot of value in Islamic teachings,
>or in those of other religions for that matter, but when brought out
>into the society, the human implementors of the religion(s) royally screw
>up. Case in point: VelAyateh gerAmi, Iran. When and where did Jesus preach
>that the religious leader should live a high class life such as the Pope
>does, while there are hungry Christians/Catholics scrambling for food
>just to ensure an additional day of life??
>
>In a way it is like saying Marxism-Leninism is good. Maybe theoretically
>it is wonderful. But you can't show me a single society who has benefitted
>from Marxism-Leninism. 

No, Muslims are not a bunch of fanatical half wits. At least, no more than
Christians, Jews, Marxists, Baha'is etc. You didn't get my point: in my view, 
what Ahmad did is incitement of religious hatred. All belief 
systems have 'ridiculous' tenets, at least from the point of view of
those who do not subscribe to them. We must learn to respect other people's
beliefs, however ridiculous they may sound to us, because the alternative is
sectarian war on a hundred fronts (evidence for this claim is easy to
come by in Iran, Middle East, Ireland,...)

When I say respect, I don't mean that you should agree with others' beliefs,
or even refrain from criticizing them. But there is a world of difference
between engaging in serious discussion of religious or intellectual 
differences, and lampooning other people's beliefs in the crass and offensive
way that Ahmad did. 

Notice that as a direct result of Ahmad's postings, there now exist the
newsgroup 'alt.muslim_women.wanted'. I don't know about you, but I feel
deeply insulted by the humiliation of Muslim women in this way. 

By the way, I don't have any religious affiliations. My intention was not
to defend this or that particular religion, rather to point out
the consequences of venting your anger at a particular regime by insulting
millions of decent human beings.

Mash Bagher
>
Newsgroups: soc.culture.iranian