HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: val@news.ccutah.edu (Val Kartchner)
Subject: Re: Review of "Ada & C++: A Business Case Analysis
Organization: University of Utah Computer Center
X-Newsreader: Tin 1.1 PL3
Distribution: usa
Date: Tue, 28 Jul 92 21:32:15 GMT

jonesm@nic.cerf.net (Matthew Jones) writes:
: Recently I got a copy of:
: Overiew of U.S. Air Force Report
: Ada and C++: A Business Case Analysis
: Form G75-1191
: AdaCPLUS.HLP
: 
: This paper supposedly compares Ada and C++ and of course find Ada
: to be superior. I found this paper to be filled with errors and
: very questionable opinion. Here are a few comments

Here are a few more comments:

1. Besides being biased (the report was produced by government contractors,
and "The customer is ALWAYS right."), that summarry is over a year old.
The reports from which it is summarized are older than that.  However,
"The Powers That Be" are still quoting it as current.  (See the Straussman
speech at the last Software Technology Conference.)

2. Those who mandate the usage of the standard don't have to use it.  Congress
deals in legal code (not at all like computer code), and President Bush just
learned to use a computer less than two years ago and is supprised by the
technology in supermarket scanners.  Besides, ask any parent how effective it
is to give someone a mandate.  (There is much more to be said against the
mandate, but that can be said later.)

3. Did you notice in the summary that C++ does better in compile-time and
run-time speed, but Ada is better for real-time?  Aren't run-time speed and
real-time performance the same thing?  I wonder what other glaring errors
were made in the reports that didn't make it through to the summary.

Oh, and before anyone thinks that I'm a C++ bigot let me tell you: I've never
used C++, but I use Ada at work.  I'd rather not use Ada.
--
|======================== The previous was my opinion =========///============|
| "AMIGA: The computer for the creative mind."(tm) Commodore  /// Weber State |
| "Macintosh: The computer for the rest of us." (tm) Apple\\\///  University  |
|=================== val@csulx.weber.edu ==================\///=== Ogden, UT =|
From: holowczk@rwja.umdnj.edu (Richard Holowczak)
Newsgroups: comp.lang.ada
Subject: Shareware or Trial ADA compilers
Summary: Trial version of Ada?
Keywords: Ada
Date: 27 Jul 92 05:56:38 GMT
Distribution: comp
Organization: Robert Wood Johnson Medical School, Piscataway NJ

Hello out there!

Anyone know of a shareware/freeware/trial version of an Ada compiler? 
I'm new to Ada and do not have access to a compiler. An FTP site would
be helpful.  Also, do any of the major vendors offer student discounts?
An MS-DOS or OS/2 version would be best but I have access to HP/UX and
VMS.

Thanks

Rich Holowczak
Rutgers University

HOLOWCZAK@DRACO.RUTGERS.EDU
From: mfikes@panix.com (Michael Fikes)
Newsgroups: comp.lang.ada
Subject: Meridian's Aggressively Inline option does not work
Summary: bamp -G -A does not function
Keywords: Meridian
Date: 23 Jul 92 22:06:26 GMT
Organization: PANIX Public Access Unix, NYC

I just spoke to technical support at Meridian about the aggressively
inline option for linking in Meridian's Open Ada v4.1.1, and they said
it simply does not work.  They also said that they are likely to remove
it from the documentation before they actually get it working.

Just wanted to save you from pulling your hair out if you have been
wondering why it doesn't work.  I had sent off for technical support
two times (1 week ago and 2 weeks ago) and did not receive a reply, and
finally gave in and called.  I'm not too impressed.

-- 
Michael Fikes    mfikes@panix.com    PANIX Public Access Unix, NYC
Newsgroups: comp.lang.ada
From: ccarpent@dpcs_gt1.ess.harris.com (Craig Carpenter)
Subject: Re: ADA implementation for Unix PC / generic System V box
Reply-To: ccarpent@dpcs_gt1.ess.harris.com (Craig Carpenter)
Organization: Harris/ISD
Distribution: usa
Date: Thu, 23 Jul 1992 12:34:42 GMT

--
In article <711030798@macbeth.cs.duke.edu>, pusateri@duke.cs.duke.edu
(Thomas J. Pusateri) writes:

> The majority of people using ADA these days are government contractors and
> even that number is decreasing.

The number can't do anything but grow. Since Congress has made it a LAW that
there will be no more waivers allowed and none have been approved for about
three years now. Also the House Appropriations Committee has made it quite
clear that they are currently looking to make an EXAMPLE out of someone that
is trying to get around the use of Ada.

Ada is here to stay and if you work for a government contractor you had better
start learning it now or find a different line of work. Why, because it's now
law and in the next year or so Ada 9X will be complete, GNU/Ada will be
available next summer, and the number of tools for Ada programming are 
increasing daily. Vendors are moving real hard to get the types of tools out 
there that are now available for C and other languages.

My .02 worth, don't bother to flame because it will do nothing but waste
the bandwidth. Those dealing with Ada now, they know it and those that don't
will soon.
============================================================================= 
                                                 
Craig Carpenter                                   HARRIS CORPORATION
E-Mail: ccarpent@dw3f.ess.harris.com 	  IIIIIIIII    SSSSSSSS   DDDDDDD
Phone : (407)984-6444                         I        S          D      D
Fax   : (407)984-6327                         I        SSSSSSS    D      D
                                              I               S   D      D
                                          IIIIIIIII    SSSSSSS    DDDDDDD

"But, why ??" -- asked by every child in America under 4 years  of age
============================================================================

Newsgroups: comp.lang.ada
From: gt1827a@prism.gatech.EDU (david daniell)
Newsgroups: comp.lang.ada
Subject: Re: REQUEST FOR ADA COMPILER CODE; code translators
Date: 30 Jul 92 12:41:45 GMT
Followup-To: comp.lang.ada
Organization: Georgia Institute of Technology

In article <92211.134635U53474@uicvm.uic.edu> U53474@uicvm.uic.edu writes:
>
>   Hi!! I'm interested in obtaining the source code for an ada compiler
> in 'C'  and the ftp site locations for ada compilers.
>
>Anyone with information please mail to :
>                      U53474@uicvm.uic.edu

Could this material please be posted to the newsgroup as well?  Thanks.

Also, in a previous article, srctran@world.std.com (Gregory Aharonian) 
mentioned the large number of Fortran-Ada translators available via FTP.
Could someone please post the location of these, as well as any other 
avaliable Ada translators (i.e. Pascal, C).  I don't know if they even
exist, but if they do, please let me know.

Thanks again.

-- 
David Daniell
Georgia Institute of Technology, Atlanta Georgia, 30332
uucp:	  ...!{decvax,hplabs,ncar,purdue,rutgers}!gatech!prism!gt1827a
Internet: gt1827a@prism.gatech.edu
From: rlk@VisiCom.COM (Bob Kitzberger)
Newsgroups: comp.lang.ada
Subject: Re: AdaNet and ADA - copyright problems?
Date: 27 Jul 92 18:51:41 GMT
Organization: VisiCom Laboratories, Inc., San Diego, California

In article <1992Jul27.033111.21572@seas.gwu.edu> mfeldman@seas.gwu.edu (Michael Feldman) writes:
>
>All my papers are on a moving van at the moment, so I can't look up
>AdaNet info for you to use to check this out. If any other AdaNet users
>are reading this, you might want to respond with more info.

	AdaNet
	c/o MountainNet, Inc.
	P.O. Box 370
	Dellslow, WV 26531
	800-444-1458
	FAX: 304-296-6892

This might be out of date, though.

	.Bob.
----------------
Bob Kitzberger          VisiCom Laboratories, Inc.
rlk@visicom.com         10052 Mesa Ridge Court, San Diego CA 92121 USA
			+1 619 457 2111    FAX +1 619 457 0888
From: alex@cs.umd.edu (Alex Blakemore)
Newsgroups: comp.lang.ada
Subject: Re: GUI Builder for Ada
Date: 21 Jul 92 16:14:10 GMT
Organization: U of Maryland, Dept. of Computer Science, Coll. Pk., MD 20742

Sorry to put this on comp.lang.ada but I'ld like to clear up a misconception:

I wrote:
>> Finally, if you want to see how GUI builders and user interfaces should
>> really look, take a look at NeXTSTEP and Display PostScript.
>> Meridian sells an Ada compiler for that incredible environment.

John Goodsen replied:
> NextSTEP builder is nice and the integeration of the Next environment
> is nice, but I would hardly tout the NextSTEP builder as a
> revolutionary product.  In particular, it doesn't support the
> iterative development cycle at all, which is one of the biggest
> payoffs of a builder :-(. 

What exactly are you talking about John?  I think you may be talking about
something from version 0.9 several years ago, and not version 2.1 and
real soon now an extensive upgrade to version 3.0.

NeXT's interface builder lets you change attributes of graphical objects
at any time.  You can start to develop a class in the interface builder,
defining its instance variable and methods, evolve to using text to describe
what is after all code, and parse the evolved file to keep the inerface
builder up to date with changes you've made to the text.  You can test run
your interface and draw from a large library for GUI objects, printing, text
manipulation.  You can extend the iinterface builder by adding your own
classes and pallettes.  The GUI building environment is real slick but the
real win comes from the extensive and well designed library.  There's alot
to reuse.  

If this doesnt support iterative development, why not?
-- 
-------------------------------
Alex Blakemore alex@cs.umd.edu
From: jdw1270@eenpw129.boeing.com (jdw1270)
Newsgroups: comp.lang.ada
Subject: (none)
Date: 20 Jul 92 20:58:16 GMT
Organization: The Internet

help
Newsgroups: comp.lang.ada
From: dn1l@.ist.ucf.edu (Dale Newfield)
Subject: Object Oriented Ada Preprocessors
Keywords: OOPS, Ada++, DRAGOON, Classic-Ada, InnovAda
Organization: VSL, IST, UCF, Orlando
Date: Thu, 30 Jul 1992 00:10:17 GMT

	I have been researching PreProcessors to Ada that basically extend the language to include Object Orientation, among other things.

I have found lots of information, but no hard facts.

I am looking for anyone that has used any of the following, or knows of any other products to tell me their experiences with them.  
How difficult is it to code?
How well do the pre-processors really work?
When the ada code is compiled, just how fast is it?
Can it do dynamic binding? at what cost to speed? 
How Ada-like are the extentions? (InnovAda is lisp-like, Classic-Ada is SmallTalk like...)

Any info would be appreciated.

Any pointer to Code for Dragoon, or Ada++ would put me in great debt...

Thanks!

Dale Newfield
dn1l@ist.ucf.edu
Newsgroups: comp.lang.ada
From: plittlef@watami.uwaterloo.ca (Peter Littlefield)
Subject: Alsys 80386-Based UNIX Compiler
Keywords: Alsys, compiler
Organization: University of Waterloo
Date: Tue, 28 Jul 1992 17:37:04 GMT


Hello Ada Folks:

I am curious as to whether there is anyone out there who uses or has
used the "Alsys Ada Software Development Environment for 80386 UNIX."
If there are any such individuals or groups, etc., I would appreciate it
if they could send me some e-mail so that I may contact them about the
above-mentioned product. 

My e-mail address:   plittle@crc.sofkin.ca

Thanks in advance to all those who respond.

Peter

------------------------------------------------------------------------------
 Peter Littlefield      | "Never say anything unless you're sure that everyone
<plittle@crc.sofkin.ca> |  else agrees with you."  -- Homer Simpson
Newsgroups: comp.lang.ada
From: mfeldman@milton.u.washington.edu (Michael Feldman)
Newsgroups: comp.lang.ada
Subject: Re: initialization of vars when declared.
Date: 21 Jul 92 19:26:24 GMT
Article-I.D.: u.1992Jul21.192624.29154
Organization: University of Washington, Seattle

In article <1992Jul21.053439.29957@iitmax.iit.edu> janiadi@elof.iit.edu (Aditya Jani) writes:
>
>How can one initialise values when variables are declared
>as in 'C' :
> 
>	int a_variable[3] = {1, 2, 3};    ?
>
        A_Variable: ARRAY(1..3) OF Integer := (1,2,3);

The simple cases are just like C. On the other hand, try

        Another_Var: ARRAY(X..Y, W..Z) OF Integer :=
                       (OTHERS => (OTHERS => 0));

As long as X,Y,Z, and W have values when this declaration is
elaborated, the whole matrix is initialized with one statement.

To add fuel to the fire, the initializing value can be computed:

        Another_Var: ARRAY(X..Y, W..Z) OF Integer :=
                       (OTHERS => (OTHERS => Integer(Sqrt(Q))));

Don't try this at home - you won't like the exception propagation
if Q is negative and Sqrt raises an exception about it...

The point is that initialization is (generally) intuitively easy.

Mike Feldman
From: kt4@prism.gatech.EDU (Ken Thompson)
Newsgroups: comp.lang.ada
Subject: Telesoft VAX MIL-STD 1750 cross compiler
Date: 21 Jul 92 13:41:44 GMT
Organization: Georgia Institute of Technology



  We have been trying to use the Telesoft V3.25 VAX cross-compiler for
MIL-STD 1750 processors. It is supposed to support all the memory models
but we have had serious problems with all except the small model. We are
currently trying to decide whether to continue with Telesoft or try to
switch development systems. I would be interested in any experiences with 
this system especially with the large model. 
 
  Telesoft seems unwilling to fix the problem we have encountered in a 
timely manner (until next release) and has not come up with a work around.
I would be also be interested in experiences with Telesoft support in 
general. 

  Please reply be E-mail

                    Thanks,
                      Ken
-- 
Ken Thompson  GTRI, Ga. Tech, Atlanta Ga. 30332 Internet:!kt4@prism.gatech.edu
uucp:...!{allegra,amd,hplabs,ut-ngp}!gatech!prism!kt4
"Rowe's Rule: The odds are five to six that the light at the end of the
tunnel is the headlight of an oncoming train."       -- Paul Dickson
From: elsworthef@aston.ac.uk (Ted Elsworth)
Newsgroups: comp.lang.ada
Subject: Re: Shortest Self-Generating Ada Program
Date: 21 Jul 92 12:03:17 GMT
Followup-To: comp.lang.ada
Organization: Computer Science, Aston University

In article <1992Jul17.195827.18009@beaver.cs.washington.edu>,
simonson@cs.washington.edu (Kevin Simonson) wrote:
> 
>      Quite a while ago I read a post in "comp.lang.c" about the shortest C
> program that generated itself.  The poster listed three programs, one of
> which was only one line long but wider than eighty characters and another
> of which was two lines long but more elegant.
> 
>      Trivial indeed, but ever since then I've wondered what it would look
> like to write an Ada program that also generated itself.  Here it is.
> It's 100 lines long.  If people can write Ada programs (elegant or not)
> that take less lines, I'd be interested in seeing them.
> 
>                                      ---Kevin Simonson
> 
>  ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> 
>  (100 line Ada program)

The following program *entered as one line* self-replicates using VAX Ada.

with text_io;use text_io;procedure r is s:string(1..115):="with text_io;use
text
_io;procedure r is s:string(1..115):="";begin
put(s(1..59)&s(1..59)&s(59..115)&s
(59..115));end;";begin put(s(1..59)&s(1..59)&s(59..115)&s(59..115));end;

Maximum source line length isn't specified by the Ada standard, but VAX Ada
allows up to 255 characters, so the above (232 chars) works OK.

Can anyone find a shorter solution than the above?

Ted Elsworth
Computer Science
Aston University
England
Newsgroups: comp.lang.ada
From: svh@verdix.com (Steven Hovater)
Subject: Serial interrupt handler in Meridian Ada on PC?
Organization: Verdix Corp.
Date: Tue, 21 Jul 1992 11:02:41 GMT

I know this was a thread several months back, but did anyone ever 'fess
up to having done this?

If so, I'd like to see the source. Else, I'll have to do it myself
(privately).

Might also mention that this has no connection to my work. Honest!


Steve
-- 
Steven V. Hovater                      (703)318-5839
Verdix Corporation                     svh@verdix.com
Newsgroups: comp.lang.ada
From: emery@Dr_No.mitre.org (David Emery)
Subject: Verdix, generics and optimization
Organization: The Mitre Corp., Bedford, MA.
	<mfausett.711768327@kirin>
Distribution: usa
Date: Wed, 22 Jul 1992 14:27:51 GMT

Verdix' implementation of generics in the "bad old days" was
particularly fragile.  We were burned by this during the IEEE Ada
Applications and Environments "Ada Programming Contest".  We
made heavy use of generics, and ran into a compiler bug.  We ran out
of time trying to work around the bug and redesign our solution.

In part the problems with generics were due to some weaknesses in the
ACVC's on generics.  I believe that the ACVC's for generics were
substantially improved based on such experiences.

In Verdix' defense, they have always been out front in terms of
capabilities for generics.  For instance, Verdix did not (does not)
require that the specification and body of a generic be in the same
compilation.  DEC Ada had that restriction for quite a long time, as
did other compilers.  

This restriction, although strictly legal, has a significant negative
impact on how you use generics. In some cases, we had programs where,
because of this rule, most of the program had to be in a single
compilation, which goes against the whole idea of separate
compilation.  And, I think we came up with a program that could not be
compiled under this restriction.

Verdix was one of the first compilers to support code sharing for
generics, too.  Again, this has an impact on the user.  A 'design
style' using a lot of instantiations of reusable components can
quickly run out of memory without code sharing.  

In general, I believe that these optimizations (not restricting
generic specs and bodies in the same compilation, and code sharing)
are very critical optimizations, in that they have a significant
impact on the design of a system.  

Unfortunately, these are the kinds of optimizations that the normal
set of PIWG/HARTSTONE/WHETSTONE/DHRYSTONE benchmarks don't capture
very well.

				dave
Newsgroups: comp.lang.ada
From: mskuhn@immd4.informatik.uni-erlangen.de (Markus Kuhn)
Subject: Re: Serial interrupt handler in Meridian Ada on PC?
Organization: CSD., University of Erlangen, Germany
Date: Thu, 23 Jul 1992 20:12:37 GMT

Perhaps the better solution is not to implement the interrupt handler
in Meridian Ada but to use one of the many high quality public domain
serial port drivers and write just an Ada interface. These often are
written in highly optimized machine code and include also support for
a large variety of serial line chips (e.g. the 16550 with 16 byte FIFO
etc.). I highly recommend drivers conforming to the FOSSIL specification
that evolved in the Fido community, e.g. the BNU driver.

Markus

-- 
Markus Kuhn, Computer Science student -=-=- University of Erlangen, Germany
Internet: mskuhn@immd4.informatik.uni-erlangen.de  |  X.500 entry available
------------------ ISO?  Nicht immer. Aber immer fter! -------------------
From: hiremath@skorpio.usask.ca (Deepta Hiremath)
Newsgroups: comp.lang.ada
Subject: Ada installation
Keywords: OS, compilers ..
Date: 23 Jul 92 18:59:43 GMT
Organization: University of Saskatchewan, Saskatoon, Canada

I am looking for information regarding the installation of Ada.

I would like to know:

1. What are the requirements for installing Ada onto a PC or a shared
system (i.e. memory,speed,hardware etc.)?

2. What is the software (OS, compiler) required to support it?

3. A list of vendors and the approximate cost for supplying both
hardware and software?

Please reply with full details and I'll get back to you with more 
information.

Thanks,

Deepta Hiremath.
Newsgroups: comp.lang.ada
From: vtg@mbunix.mitre.org (Giddings)
Subject: Re: 1 millisecond tasking on a Mips
Followup-To: vtg@mitre.org
Organization: The MITRE Corporation, Bedford, MA
Date: Tue, 21 Jul 1992 17:41:53 GMT

In article <ELLIOTTM.92Jul17225954@beach.csulb.edu> 
   elliottm@beach.csulb.edu (Elliot Michael) writes:
>We are considering an embedded application in Ada, running on a Mips
>chip (speed yet unspecified) which will require at least one task to 
>be run at 1 KHz.  Is this reasonable?  I've heard lots of rumors about
>how much overhead is involved in Ada tasking.
>
>
>--
>
>
>                                           Mike Elliott
>                                           elliottm@beach.csulb.edu

Yes, but be careful. (What a surprise!) I offer the following PIWG 
benchmark results: 
Test      Description (abreviated)                CPU Time Wall Time
T000001   Minimum rendezvous, task ocedure        60.039   60.039
T000002   One task, 1 entry, in package           59.961   59.961
T000003   2 Tasks, 1 entry, in package            60.703   60.703
T000004   1 Task, 2 entries, in package           70.976   70.976
T000005   10 tasks, 1 entry, in package           63.562   63.562
T000006   1 task, 10 entries, in package          81.500   81.500
T000007   Minimum rendezvous                      42.773   42.773
T000008   Pass Int: Producer->Buffer->Consumer   179.687  179.687
The time units are microseconds!  These measurements were taken from 
a MIPS R3200 board (25MHz R3000, 64kB I cache, 64kB D cache, 1MB 
memory) using the MIPS ASAPP (Ada StandAlone Programmer's Product) 
Version 3.0 (derived from Verdix).  Unfortunately, this compiler 
and run-time system are no longer available.  About 6 months ago, 
we completed an evaluation of competing products from Verdix, Alsys, 
Telesoft, and InterAct.  Our agreements with the vendors prevent me 
from discussing specifics and 6 months of additional development 
from the vendors may invalid our results, but let me assure you that 
similar and sometimes better performances are attainable from 
currently available compilers.  Also, you can get 40MHZ clock rates 
in hardware.

If you can use passive tasks, you can do even better.  The following 
results are MODIFICATIONS of the PIWGs to use passive tasks. (Most 
modifications were to simply add pragma Passive.)

Test       CPU Time
T000002P   6.226
T000003P   6.938
T000004P   7.246
T000005P   6.203
T000006P   7.875
T000008P  25.723

Newsgroups: comp.lang.ada
From: wallace@bonmot (Richard Wallace)
Subject: OO Questions with Ada (1003.5, Ada9X) and C++
Summary: Who is right about OO?
Keywords: Ada, C++, OO
Organization: Digital Equipment Corporation
X-Newsreader: Tin 1.1 PL3
Date: Thu, 30 Jul 1992 22:58:01 GMT

This article may have an answer somewhere, but my news server only goes back to
29 June 1992.

Having spent most of my recent time (2 1/2 yrs.) coding ANSI C programs against
a KILLER deadline I've now have a chance to poke my head above my cube and
catch-up on the C++ and Ada activities.  Prior to this intense period I 
programmed MIL-STD-1815A Ada for 9 years.

First thing that I did was order the IEEE standard for Ada (1003.5) and
bought the Hansen ("The C++ Answer Book") and the Stroustrup ("The C++
Programming Language, 2nd Edition") books.  Having skimmed through the
C++ books and read some articles on OO language techniques, I began asking
myself the question, "So what?  C++ doesn't seem to do anything that 1815A
Ada couldn't do; so what's all the fuss?"

I've got an open mind on this, and don't want to be "flamed-on" so, besides
syntax and implicit actions in C++, what does C++ do besides allowing ANSI C
programs to be compiled by the C++ compiler?  I just *know* that this
discussion has *had* to have happened.  Any clues, help, pointers to articles
that I can ftp?  Thanks in advance.

=============================================================================
Richard Wallace                         "These are my thoughts, and my not
Digital Equipment Corporation            jive with what Digital thinks I
CXO2-1/7A                                should think."
301 Rockrimmon Dr.
Colorado Springs, CO 80919-2398         "It's worse than that Jim, he's dead!"
(719)548-2792                              -- Star Trek, The Old Generation.
<wallace@cookie.enet.dec.com
Newsgroups: comp.lang.ada