HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: dela@ee.rochester.edu (Del Armstrong)
Newsgroups: rec.aviation.student
Subject: Re: biplane license
Keywords: how, license, biplanes
Date: 6 Oct 92 14:57:13 GMT
Article-I.D.: ee.1992Oct6.145713.5106
Reply-To: dela@ee.rochester.edu (Del Armstrong)
Organization: University of Rochester - Dept of Electrical Engineering

In article <1992Oct6.055608.9592@news.iastate.edu>, baarniy@iastate.edu (Scott A Coon) writes:
|>    How would you go about getting a biplane pilot's license? 

Wow, neat question! 

There is no such thing as a "biplane" license. 

The "first" level in the license heirarchy is called the "private"
license. With a private license, you can fly most single engine, land
based biplanes ... with one small hitch. About a year and a half ago,
the FAA passed a new rule requiring new taildragger pilots to get a
checkout in taildraggers before they can fly them. A taildragger is an
airplane with the third wheel in the back, rather then in the front
like "modern" airplanes. Since almost all biplanes are taildraggers,
your friend will need a taildragger checkout after he/she gets their
private license. The checkout usually entails a few hours of dual,
nothing beyond that. If you friend studies for his/her private license
in a taildragger, then he/she can kill two birds with one stone.

	Del Armstrong

 Fast:      dela@ee.rochester.edu
 Slow:      {decvax,garp,harvard,hombre,rutgers}!rochester!ur-valhalla!dela
 Slowest:   University of Rochester
            Dept. of Electrical Engineering
            Rochester, NY   14627

"What if there were no hypothetical situations?" -Jeff Sauder
Newsgroups: rec.aviation.student
From: yiannis@ccad.uiowa.edu (Yiannis Papelis)
Subject: Re: High-wing vs. low-wing training
Organization: CAD-Research, University of Iowa, Iowa City
Date: Tue, 6 Oct 1992 18:28:36 GMT

In some article kkalan@casbah.acns.nwu.edu (Kenneth Kalan) writes:

>I have only trained in High wing planes (172), but have always been told that
>a high wing plane is a little more difficult to land than a low wing.
>Both planes experience ground effect, but I believe because the wings are
>closer to the ground on a low wing, this aids in cushining the landing. 

Well, I kind of disagree with that.  The 'cushion effect' is not
exactly a pillow underneath you that smooths the landing.

First of all, proper airspeed control is vital in both types
of planes, and the effect of ground control is minimized if
you don't have extra airspeed.  BUT (talking from experience here) 
with 10 or more knts extra airspeed on short final things get more
complicated in a low wing than a high wing:
after the flare, the combined lift of the flare attitude and
the ground effect will balloon the low wing plane waaaaayyy up there,
the actual amount depending on extra airspeed, and amount of
pitch up during the flare.
In my experience, extra speed in a low wing plane translates directly 
to longer 'float' but there is no 'ballooning' tendecy.

Each time I fly into an ARSA I end up with too much airspeed
on final (keep your speed up, kind of thing) and the way I have 
found to avoid the ballooning is to flare high (>20 ft) let the 
airspeed reach the approach speed and then decent lower for the final 
flare.  Not pretty but it works.

And a final datapoint, an archer with idle power and 140 mph on
short final will float for 6500 feet before a full stall landing.
Don't ask how I know ...

-- 
Yiannis E. Papelis,            - Electrical & Computer Engineering, U of Iowa
Center of Computer Aided Design- Home of the Iowa Driving Simulator & future
e-mail: yiannis@ccad.uiowa.edu - home of the National Advanced Driving Simulator
Newsgroups: rec.aviation.student
From: yiannis@ccad.uiowa.edu (Yiannis Papelis)
Subject: Re: High-wing vs. low-wing training
Organization: CAD-Research, University of Iowa, Iowa City
Date: Mon, 5 Oct 1992 16:32:29 GMT

In some article tmark@wbst845e.xerox.com (Ted Markowitz) writes:
> 
> Does anyone have any opinions or experience on the relative merits of
> learning on a high-wing plane (e.g., C172) vs. a low-wing?  I received
> some lessons as a gift and the instructor recommended a low-wing which
> seems alright by me, but some advice would be appreciated.  Thanks.

This subject tends to get very emotional for some people but here are
some comments I have on the issues after having flown (for few
hours I might add), cessnoids (c152, c172), piperoids (warriors/archers)
and a kitfox (20 minutes, what a ride!!)

High wings
    Better view of underneath land, great for sight seeing
    No ground effect on landing -> easier landing
    Wing obscures runway during the base-to-final, makes me uncomfortable
    Checking tanks is harder due to their location

Low wing:
    Good view of runway during pattern work
    Easy access to tanks, but hard access to drains
    Ground effect on landing -> more challenging
    There is something about walking on the wing -:)

There is also the issue of the clearence of the wing from the
ground during landings with stiff crosswinds where slipping is used.
I felt very funny about the wing of the archer beign so close
to the runway before touchdown, but I'm used to it by now.
Another thing I have noticed (that is not necessarily related to
high/low wing, maybe its a cessna/piper characteristic) is that
cessnas seem to have a distinctive rotation stage, 
while pipers jump off the runway once the nose comes off.  
Now that I think of it maybe it's ground effect.

-- 
Yiannis E. Papelis,            - Electrical & Computer Engineering, U of Iowa
Center of Computer Aided Design- Home of the Iowa Driving Simulator & future
e-mail: yiannis@ccad.uiowa.edu - home of the National Advanced Driving Simulator
Newsgroups: rec.aviation.student
Subject: video/audio/computer based instruction
From: GRIGG@dirac.physics.jmu.edu (Steve Grigg)
Date: 2 Oct 92 18:40:22 -0500
Distribution: world
Organization: JMU Physics Dept.
X-News-Reader: VMS NEWS 1.24


   I've noticed a lot of non classroom based "ground school" packages with a
pretty wide variety in price. Without starting a flame war, I'd like to get a
sense of whose is good, whose to avoid, what constitutes a reasonable price,
and what i should get out of these packages. Finally, the school I'll be going
to ( a local flight school) has a set of tapes they lease. The prices is
significantly less but do I want to consider keeping them for future
"refreshment"? Thank in advance.

Steve
From: radack@ces.cwru.edu (Gerald Radack)
Newsgroups: rec.aviation.student
Subject: Re: AUDIO TAPE GROUND SCHOOL: ANY AVAILABLE?
Date: 1 Oct 1992 22:12:05 GMT
Organization: Computer Engineering and Science, Case Western Reserve University
Distribution: na
NNTP-Posting-Host: george.ces.cwru.edu

In article <1992Sep29.020844.24611@nntpd.lkg.dec.com> landry@solvit.enet.dec.com (Chris Landry) writes:
>
>>In article <1992Sep24.192234.9062@eagle.lerc.nasa.gov>
>>tostan@bert.lerc.nasa.gov (Stan Mohler) writes:
>>> There used to be a set of audio tapes with a workbook you could buy from a
>>> Denver-based company called ATC which contained a complete ground school for
>>> the Private Pilot exam.  They also had one for instrument rating.  I don't
>>> think ATC exists anymore.  Does anyone know where I can get an up-to-date
>>> set of audio tapes like this?  Mind you, I'm looking for COMPLETE ground
>>> schools.  Not "review" tapes.
>> 
>I used an audio tape set from Flight Tech, Inc., 936 South Indian Bend,
>Pueblo West, CO  81007.  I have no idea if they are still in business but
>you can try at 800-221-0348.  I bought the tapes used (and cheap) 'cause
>they were one test cycle out of date.   They came with a workbook of
>maybe 200 pages that is full of test questions, charts & graphs, chart
>samples, etc.  I think there's 20 tapes or so.

I used this course also and was quite pleased with it.

>.... He's full of silly mnemonics
>(like the two Sweedish fellows - SWEVEN and NEODD for VFR cruising
>altitudes).

You might think that these mnemonics are silly, but everytime I do a flight
plan, I think of SWEVEN and NEODD.

>If anyone wants the tapes I have, you can have them for the price of 
>shipping.  First come, first served.  However, they are based on the 
>1986-1988 test and any differences between then and now are your
>responsibility.  There's 20 tapes, but there's supposed to be 21.
>Looks like I'm missing the last one.

I have a set from the save vintage (1988), and will offer it under the
same terms.

-- 
Gerry Radack
EEAP								(216)368-2808
Case Western Reserve University			    radack@alpha.ces.cwru.edu
Cleveland, OH 44106
Newsgroups: rec.aviation.student
From: baarniy@iastate.edu (Scott A Coon)
Subject: Re: biplane license
Followup-To: rec.aviation.student
Summary: thanks
Organization: Iowa State University, Ames, IA
Date: Wed, 7 Oct 1992 04:34:17 GMT

Just wanted to thank everybody who emailed me about my
biplane questions.  I've got all the info I was looking
for.  Thanks a lot, folks.
Scott Coon
From: per@front.se
Newsgroups: rec.aviation.student
Subject: 1-800-I-CAN-FLY
Date: 5 Oct 92 17:36:36 GMT
Organization: Front Capital Systems AB, Sweden

New student pilot wannabees in the USA (unfortunately not here in Sweden)
might check the toll-free number

	1-800-I-CAN-FLY

I beleive this is a service which gives you the basic facts about
getting a license and pointers to some flying schools near you.

Is this still in effect?


Per Lindberg (per@front.se)         !      __!__
Front Capital Systems, Box 5727,    !  _____(_)_____  Ceci n'est pas une Piper
11487 Stockholm, Sweden. 8-6611510  !     !  !  !
Newsgroups: rec.aviation.student
From: mjkobb@media.mit.edu (Michael J Kobb)
Subject: Re: biplane license
Followup-To: rec.aviation.student
Organization: M.I.T. Media Laboratory
Date: Tue, 6 Oct 1992 15:53:03 GMT


       How would you go about getting a biplane pilot's license?  I
   don't have any sort of license (asking for a friend who doesn't
   read news).  I suppose only the steps after receiving a "standard"
   (whatever that means) license would be enough.  This would not be
   in connection with barnstorming, just flying (although all info
   is welcome.)
       Email would be great, but feel free to post if you think anyone
   else would be interested.

Howdy!

  Well, there's not any special license needed for a biplane.  I
flew one (PT-17 Stearman) for several years after I got my Private
certificate, and before I switched to the AT-6.  Great, great
airplane and tons of fun to fly.

  The main trick to getting checked out in the Stearman (and
probably most biplanes) is the transition from tricycle gear to a
tailwheel configuration.  This definitely takes some instruction
from a competent CFI, but it's not as tough as it's made out to be.
There are other things to get used to, as with the change to any new
aircraft type.  In the Stearman, for example, the sink rate was
phenomenal, and it was also very twitchy in a crosswind (lots of
wing surface). Once the CFI gets you checked out in the plane,
you're set!

Happy flying!
--Mike
N57320 North American SNJ-6 (AT-6F)
From: v101l7pc@ubvmsb.cc.buffalo.edu (The Golden Eagle)
Newsgroups: rec.aviation.student
Subject: Where do you learn how to fly?
Date: 1 Oct 92 19:50:00 GMT
Organization: University at Buffalo
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41

I have suddenly in the past few weeks become interested in learning
how to fly a plane.  The only problem is, I have no idea where to start
learning how to, or how much money it would cost me.  Does anyone know
where I could start out?  Are there any classes here at the University At
Buffalo that I could take?  Any response would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks - The Golden Eagle
Newsgroups: rec.aviation.student
From: ses3n@fermi.clas.Virginia.EDU (Sharon Elizabeth Silverman)
Subject: Re: medical certificate
Organization: University of Virginia
Distribution: usa
Date: Fri, 2 Oct 1992 21:31:04 GMT


You don't need a medical to fly an ultralight, I think.
A friend with diabetes can get his private but has a
winged lawnmower. Try it out!  And good luck - flying 
is too good to pass up.			Sharon
From: megazone@obsidian.WPI.EDU (MegaZone23)
Newsgroups: rec.aviation.student
Subject: Re: Where do you learn how to fly?
Date: 2 Oct 1992 01:32:41 GMT
Organization: WPI USAF -- United Society of Animation Fans
NNTP-Posting-Host: obsidian.wpi.edu

In article <BvGKGC.AJB@acsu.buffalo.edu> v101l7pc@ubvmsb.cc.buffalo.edu (The Golden Eagle) writes:
>how to fly a plane.  The only problem is, I have no idea where to start
>learning how to, or how much money it would cost me.  Does anyone know
>where I could start out?  Are there any classes here at the University At

Buffalo... Hmm, There should be an FBO with a training center there...

Check the yellow pages under Aircraft Instruction - Flying and shop around. 
Visit the facilities and talk to the people. Once you make a decision you'll
pretty much have to work with the people you choose until you're done with
training.

I did mine at Richmor Aviation Schenectady NY and I'm pretty sure they have
centers all over. Including near Buffalo.

###############################################################################
# I have one prejudice, and that is against stupidity.  Use your mind, think! #
#Email megazone@wpi.wpi.edu  Moderator, WPI anime FTP site 130.215.24.1 /anime#
###############################################################################
Newsgroups: rec.aviation.student
From: c60c-3gi@web-3e.berkeley.edu (Masayuki Karahashi)
Subject: Re: medical certificate
Organization: University of California, Berkeley
Distribution: usa
Date: Fri, 2 Oct 1992 09:57:23 GMT

In article <WD.92Oct2102427@sam.cs.tu-berlin.de> wd@cs.tu-berlin.de (Wolfgang Diestelkamp) writes:

>If your *really* want to learn how to fly, you could of course
>take a CFI with you as the one who ACTs as PIC all the time.
>Not very nice to depend on some CFI all the time I do admit,
>but it's a way to get to flying; you simply can't solo unless
>you get that medical.

hmmm..sounds like an idea, but doesn't seem too fun...anyone know if FAA
is the ONLY place where I can get a certificate to fly in the US?  for \
example, if I for some reason get a certificate in Japan, are these
things international?  probabbly not eh?  I thought it was worth asking..
(^_^)

>-- 
>Wolfgang Diestelkamp
>wd@cs.tu-berlin.de
>wolfgang@first.gmd.de

berlin?  hmm...didn't I post this with the distribution set to usa?  did
I do something wrong again?  but really (seriously) thanks for the advice.
From:  (Bob Noel)
Subject: Re: High-wing vs. low-wing training
Organization: The MITRE Corporation
Date: Mon, 5 Oct 1992 12:49:23 GMT

In article <TMARK.92Oct2164837@sherlock.wbst845e.xerox.com>, tmark@wbst845e.xerox.com (Ted Markowitz) writes:
> 
> Does anyone have any opinions or experience on the relative merits of
> learning on a high-wing plane (e.g., C172) vs. a low-wing?  I received
> some lessons as a gift and the instructor recommended a low-wing which
> seems alright by me, but some advice would be appreciated.  Thanks.
> --
> ted 


Boy, this question could spark (continue?) a long running debate.....

(After soloing) My instructor trained me in both C-172's and Piper Warriors 
(partly to increase the probability that an airplane would be available 
and partly to expose me to different airplanes).  My opinion is that it 
that it really doesn't matter.  Fly whatever airplane you're comfortable in...
it's more important that you're comfortable (and I'm not referring 
to creature comforts).

Bob Noel
My views are my own, not MITRE's

Newsgroups: rec.aviation.student
From: wd@cs.tu-berlin.de (Wolfgang Diestelkamp)
Subject: Re: medical certificate
Organization: Technical University of Berlin, Germany
	<WD.92Oct2102427@sam.cs.tu-berlin.de>
	<1992Oct2.095723.16449@pasteur.Berkeley.EDU>
Distribution: usa
Date: Mon, 5 Oct 1992 11:07:22 GMT

In article <1992Oct2.095723.16449@pasteur.Berkeley.EDU> c60c-3gi@web-3e.berkeley.edu (Masayuki Karahashi) writes:

> hmmm..sounds like an idea, but doesn't seem too fun...anyone know if FAA
> is the ONLY place where I can get a certificate to fly in the US?  for \
> example, if I for some reason get a certificate in Japan, are these
> things international?  probabbly not eh?  I thought it was worth asking..

You may have a chance; if you have a foreign license, you can usually get an
FAA license based on the foreign license, all restrictions apply.
I'm not sure what happens if you are a US citizen (your name *may* suggest
you are not); I doubt they would let a US citizen do this.
The policy concerning your medical obviously varies from FSDO to FSDO; I got
my license in Houston, and they wanted to see my German medical; other
people told me they needed *no* medical at all at some places, whereas
some people were required to get a medical from a US AME. Anyway, be
sure to have your medical (foreign or not) with you, whenever you go
flying.

> berlin?  hmm...didn't I post this with the distribution set to usa?  did
> I do something wrong again?  but really (seriously) thanks for the advice.

Yes, distribution do leak a lot, I usually get all kinds of funny distributions.
Of course it is partly because our system does not reject them (intentionally),
but systems on the way pass on articles unappropriately.
In this particular case though it was not bad :-)
-- 
Wolfgang Diestelkamp
wd@cs.tu-berlin.de
wolfgang@first.gmd.de

Newsgroups: rec.aviation.student
From: geoff@peck.com (Geoff Peck)
Subject: CHARTER: rec.aviation.student
Followup-To: rec.aviation.misc
Reply-To: geoff@peck.com
Organization: Geoffrey G. Peck, Consultant, San Jose CA
Date: Tue, 6 Oct 1992 17:06:44 GMT

Welcome to rec.aviation.student.  This message, and companion messages
like it, will be posted to each of the new rec.aviation.* groups weekly
through the end of November, to allow people to view the charters of each
newsgroup and better understand where to post articles.

The charter of rec.aviation.student is:

****************************************************************************
*   It's been said that every good pilot is a student pilot -- for life.   *
*   This group is dedicated to learning experiences and questions,         *
*   particularly (but not exclusively) by and for those who haven't yet    *
*   attained the private pilot certificate.  Written exams, solo flights,  *
*   learning to land, maneuvers, flight tests, instructors and             *
*   instructional techniques, etc.                                         *
****************************************************************************

There are now a thirteen separate subgroups on rec.aviation; if the charter
above doesn't match the content of the article you're posting (or you're
following up), please consider one of the other groups as a more
appropriate forum:

    announce (MOD)    military      piloting        soaring
    answers  (MOD)    misc          products        stories (MOD)
    homebuilt         owning        simulators      student
    ifr 

A common question is "what should I do if an article spans the charters of
two or more groups?"  The answer is cross-posting.  If you have an article
which clearly crosses the boundaries of several groups, you should post a
**single** copy of the article to **all* of the groups.  Don't post
separate copies to each group.  Most modern newsreaders will display the
article exactly once to the reader -- in the first group in which it is
encountered and read.

If you feel that the replies should be directed to a subset of the groups
to which you are submitting your post, be sure to include a line of the
form "Followup-to: groupname" in the header of your message.  See the
header of this message for an example.

If you are replying to a cross-posted article and your reply is germane to
only a subset of the original groups, please ensure that you check the
Newsgroups: line to remove unnecessary groups.  If the reply is germane to
all the groups in which the article was originally posted, try to ensure
that all the groups are listed in the Newsgroups: line.  Some older
newsreaders cause a reply to go only to the group which is currently being
read.

Use cross-posting sparingly.  If an article "90% belongs" in one group and
"10% belongs" in another, post it only to the first group.

						Geoff
Newsgroups: rec.aviation.student
From: jhenderson@pomona.claremont.edu
Subject: Re: AUDIO TAPE GROUND SCHOOL: ANY AVAILABLE?
Organization: Pomona College
Distribution: na
Date: 1 Oct 92 15:40:10 PDT

>>>> the Private Pilot exam.  They also had one for instrument rating.  I don't
>>>> think ATC exists anymore.  Does anyone know where I can get an up-to-date
>>>> set of audio tapes like this?  Mind you, I'm looking for COMPLETE ground
>>>> schools.  Not "review" tapes.

ATC has a full page ad on the latest issue of Plane & Pilot magazine. For $99
you get the audio tapes, books, some videos, computer software, etc. Seems to
be a pretty good deal, they have them at least for private, instrument and
commercial.

______________________________________________________________________________
Javier Henderson, N6VBG         | Beat the 55mph limit (legally):
jhenderson@pomona.claremont.edu | Learn to fly!
From: ron@topaz.bds.com (Ron Natalie)
Newsgroups: rec.aviation.student
Subject: Re: medical certificate
Date: 2 Oct 1992 14:45:31 GMT
Organization: BDS Systems
Distribution: usa
NNTP-Posting-Host: topaz.bds.com

Call the Aircraft Owners and Pilots Association.  One of the finer things
they do for the community is helping people get medicals stragiht.

Their general number is (800) 872-2672.

Frankly, I believe you may have a chance for a medical.  I've heard other
stories of people being turned down upon "paperwork", but usually with the
right supporting documentation (or perhaps additional medical examination)
can be approved.

-Ron
Newsgroups: rec.aviation.student
From:  (Bob Noel)
Subject: Re: Glider medicals (was Re: medical certificate)
Organization: The MITRE Corporation
Distribution: usa
Date: Fri, 2 Oct 1992 21:03:01 GMT

In article <BvIByt.2xo@taligent.com>, cep@taligent.com (Christophe Pettus) writes:

stuff deleted
> 
> While it is true that you are not required to obtain a medical
> certificate before you can get a glider rating, you are required to
> sign a self-certification that you have no condition that would make
> you unable to perform you duties as PIC of a glider.  Any known
> condition that would result in the denial of a third class medical
> certificate would probably make you unable to sign that
> self-certification.
> 
> It's a bummer, but there it is.
> --
> -- Christophe
> 

Let me explain the real extent of my "knowledge" regarding this 
subject.....

I knew a private pilot who lost his medical because of a heart problem.
He continued to fly gliders.  How? I don't know.  I haven't checked the
FARs regarding this subject (glider medicals) because I really really
like the noise of an engine - the silence would make me nervous.

Bob Noel
My views are my own, not MITRE's

Newsgroups: rec.aviation.military
From: kevinq@Ingres.COM (Kevin Quinn)
Subject: Re: Airshows At Edwards And Moffett
Reply-To: kevinq@Ingres.COM (Kevin Quinn)
Organization: Ask Computer Systems Inc., Ingres Division, Alameda CA 94501
Date: 6 Oct 92 19:51:47 GMT

In article <rob.718330646@blacks> rob@blacks.jpl.nasa.gov (Rob Fatland) writes:
>
>Also an Aurora low pass, low speed fly by.

Dream on!  They seem to stick to Southern California (and not exactly low!).


kbq

--
Kevin Quinn                         | kevinq@ingres.com
                                    | {mtzinu,pacbell,ll-winken,sun}!ingres.com
My opinions are my own.  Should you think otherwise, think again.
From: johnm@hpmcaa.mcm.hp.com.mcm.hp.com (John Mosbarger)
Newsgroups: rec.aviation.military
Subject: Aircraft in Profile Books
Date: 6 Oct 92 19:31:21 GMT
Article-I.D.: hpmcaa.1992Oct06.193121.22675
Organization: HP Cardiology Business Unit - McMinnville, OR
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1 PL6]


     For quite some time I've been looking for Vols. 9 & 10 of the Aircraft
in Profile books.  These are bound volumes of the popular Profile series
available years ago.  If anyone knows where I can buy them, please let me
know.  Thanks.

--
John Mosbarger
HP McMinnville, OR
johnm@hpmcaa.mcm.hp.com