HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: thos@suite.sw.oz.au (Thomas Cohen)
Newsgroups: rec.autos.sport
Subject: Re: Boo Boo Senna (German GP minor spoiler)
Date: 28 Jul 92 07:36:18 GMT
Organization: Softway Pty Ltd

In <1992Jul27.000949.24693@cc.uow.edu.au> ddd@cc.uow.edu.au (David Dodds) writes:
[lost attribution]
>>of Senna's fans: Do you still think he is the best driver in the world
>>or just maybe it is a 3 time WC because of great cars?

>After watching the German GP do you still think Senna is the 3 time
>world champion just because of his car ? (Don't think so)

>See how the Williams drivers behaved under pressure ?

Well, I saw nothing wrong with how Mansell behaved. Patrese could 
have saved third place I suppose, but if you watch the replays,
Senna was tough but fair for most of the last section of the race,
driving well under pressure, but on the very last lap he was definitely
weaving to keep Patrese behind him. Patrese was in behind, under his
wing and darted out to the left, Senna moved over about a foot or 
so, Patrese, who hadn't started overtaking at this point, pulled out
over the other side, and Senna weaved that way. If it wasn't for that,
I'd applaud his drive wholeheartedly. But that little bit was too much.


regards,
-- 
thos cohen  				       |Softway Pty Ltd
 The best way to make a Japanese engineer wince|ACSnet:         thos@softway.oz
 is (when talking about an NSX) to say slowly  |UUCP: ...!uunet!softway.oz!thos
 'but its _not a Ferrari_ is it?' R.Bulgin, CAR|Internet:    thos@softway.oz.au
From: bj@cbmvax.commodore.com (Brian Jackson - Amiga Networking)
Newsgroups: rec.autos.sport
Subject: Re: Wreck on ESPN Saturday Night
Date: 21 Jul 92 18:16:43 GMT
Reply-To: bj@cbmvax.commodore.com (Brian Jackson - Amiga Networking)
Distribution: na
Organization: Commodore, West Chester, PA

In article <3399@blue.cis.pitt.edu.UUCP> hpb@hpb.cis.pitt.edu (Harry Bloomberg) writes:
>
>   Has anybody heard how the driver involved in that terrifying wreck
>Saturday night on ESPN is doing?  (I apoligize for not remembering his
>name.)
>
>   The broadcast was of miget races at Indianapolis Raceway Park.  The
>accident was so horrifying that ESPN refused to show the replay.
>
>Harry Bloomberg
>hpb@vms.cis.pitt.edu

They did show it again on Sunday's "Sport(s ?)Center" (ESPN). Truly
horrifying.  They said (if I remember correctly) two broken arms, broken
collar bone, a mild concussion and misc 'minor' injuries. In other words,
he's one luck s.o.b.   He must have rotated that thing 25 times. Sheesh.

       +  +  +  +  +  +  +  +  +  +  +  +  +  +  +  +  +  +  +  +  +
       Brian Jackson    Amiga Networking Group, Commodore-Amiga Inc.
     {uunet|rutgers}!cbmvax!bj    or   networking@cbmvax.commodore.com
Newsgroups: rec.autos.sport
Subject: Re: F1 Pick6: standings after German GP (spoilers)
From: <A735FJO@HASARA11.BITNET>
Date: Wednesday, 29 Jul 1992 01:16:56 CET
Organization: SARA - Stichting Academisch Rekencentrum Amsterdam

In article <1992Jul27.182447.12457@rdg.dec.com>, winalski@adserv.enet.dec.com
(Paul S. Winalski) says:
>In the following chart, an asterisk next to a player's name means that the
>player has submitted a pick that the administrators have flagged as being
>late.
>These picks will be reviewed at the end of the Pick6 season.
 
Are the Pick6 adminstrators (who cannot be praised enough) also
keeping count of how many times players are late?
I, for example, have also been flagged, but I was late
only on the very first occasion, because I did not know in
time who was going to be the pick6 adminstrator.  (Sometimes
the newsfeed from the US to Amsterdam is some days behind.)
 
Frans
Newsgroups: rec.autos.sport
From: dafuller@sequent.com (David Fuller)
Subject: Re: Davey Allison to drive this weekend
Organization: Sequent Computer Systems Inc.
Distribution: na
Date: Thu, 23 Jul 92 19:30:32 GMT

In article <1992Jul23.164449.16680@hubcap.clemson.edu> csroach@eng.clemson.edu (Shane Roach) writes:
>From article <1992Jul23.150749.28006@convex.com>, by miller@convex.com (Ken Miller):
>> 
>> Ken { anyone seen a 'good'wrench lately... besides bringing up the rear }
> 
>Speaking of such wrenches, I heard an interesting rumor yesterday.  It may
>be total bullshit, but then again it may not be.  Regardless, the gist of it
>was that Mr. Earnhardt has been more than a little displeased with the speed,
>or lack thereof, of the #3 car.  Sensing that Dale might be willing to try
>a little change of scenery, a prominent team owner is negotiating to buy
>Dale's 1993 contract from Richard Childress.  If this should happen to be
>true and then should happen to come to pass, Dale would drive next year for
>                            (TA-DAAAH!!)
>     P   E   T   T   Y      E   N   T   E   R   P   R   I   S   E   S.
>

Benny Parsons has been quite down on Petty Ent's capabilities; that they
don't have the personnel to field truly top-flight NASCAR cars.  I'd be
real surprised if this happened.
-- 
Dave Fuller		 	All opinions expressed are my own and not
Sequent Computer Systems	those of Sequent Computer Systems, Inc.
dafuller@sequent.com
Newsgroups: rec.autos.sport
From: ah335@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Richard Banks)
Subject: Re: F1: Honda
Reply-To: ah335@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Richard Banks)
Organization: Case Western Reserve University, Cleveland, OH (USA)
Date: Wed, 29 Jul 92 20:49:51 GMT


In a previous article, GR743@uacsc2.albany.edu (Greg Rickes) says:

>>With the old man gone, the beancounters at Honda are redoing their sums, and
>>the conclusions are perfectly predictable.  If we look at Honda's situation
>>rationally, as opposed to looking at it as emotional racing fans, it's hard
>>to argue that they're wrong.
>>
>>Dave Wilson
> 
>Following on Dave Wilson's theme, it just may be truism that once
>you've won a championship, there's no reason for a car compnay
>to stay in a series, because the odds are you're only going to
>lose, and the other manufacturers can, and will, make a point

Why does this have to apply to just car companies?  
If everyone felt this way Formula One will end up like the WSCC.
Who says that Honda isn't competitive now or won't be in the future, I
think they have an excellent chance of doing well next season if they
stay in.

>of it when they beat you. That seems to be the philosophy of
>at least one German manufactuer, i.e. Mercedes. Will anyone
>be surprised if Nissan, for example, decides to leave the
>Camel series, having won three championships, but now
>apparently falling behind. Ditto Jaguar, though they can't
>point to a title winner. The amount of money they, Castrol,
>and Bud have put into the effort over the last several years
>must be quite impressive.
Newsgroups: rec.autos.sport
From: marti@nugget.inf.ethz.ch (Robert Marti)
Subject: Re: More F1 Fodder
Organization: Dept. Informatik, Swiss Federal Institute of Technology (ETH), Zurich, CH
Date: Tue, 21 Jul 1992 19:55:06 GMT

In article <1992Jul21.151850.27142@ncube.com>, bob@ncube.com (Bob Kehoe) writes:
|> Other thoughts are that Sauber will be there with both Winkelhock(sp?)
|> and Schumacher as shoes.  If the car turns out to be successful, they'll
|> insert the Mercedes nameplate in lieu of Sauber.

A couple of comments on this one:
1) There is a German driver named Joachim Winkelhock who had been driving
   half a season for the Lotus F1 team a couple of years ago.  He is one
   of the brothers of the late Manfred Winkelhock.  (Btw, your spelling
   was correct ;-)  Joachim is currently driving in the German Touring Car
   Championship for BMW, with one win in over 10 races.  However, he is
   unlikely to drive for Sauber (or any other F1 team) in 1993.
   You probably meant Austrian Karl Wendlinger who is currently driving
   surprisingly well for the vastly underfinanced March-Illmor team.  He
   has already signed a contract to drive for Sauber-Illmor in 1993.
2) As a said before, it now appears extremely unlikely that Schumacher
   will drive for Sauber in 1993.  I don't think he is interested to
   leave his spot at Benetton to go to a new team which is just bound
   to have their teething problems.  However, Schumacher has a contract
   which says that he _must_ drive for _Mercedes_ (not Sauber) if they
   enter F1.  This brings us to the final point:
3) I believe there is indeed a chance that the Sauber nameplate will
   eventually be replaced by the ubiquitous three-pronged Mercedes star
   if Sauber-Illmor are reasonably successful.  (After all, this is
   essentially what happened in Sports Cars.)  But I don't think this
   will happen before the start of the 1994 season if not later.

-- 
Robert Marti                    |  Phone:    +41 1 254 72 60
Informationssysteme             |  FAX:      +41 1 262 39 73
ETH-Zentrum                     |  E-Mail:   marti@inf.ethz.ch
CH-8092 Zurich, Switzerland     |
Newsgroups: rec.autos.sport
From: rob@sbil.co.uk (Robert  Greenwood)
Subject: F1 thoughts
Keywords: F1
Reply-To: rob@sbil.co.uk
Organization: Salomon Brothers, Ltd.
Date: Tue, 21 Jul 92 15:32:43 GMT

Thoughts from several recent articles:

>within the race. There can be the "unlimited megabuck group" (Williams and
>McLaren), the Medium bucks group (Benneton, Ferrari, etc)..... etc.
               ^^^^^^^^^^^^                  ^^^^^^^
The UK press report Ferrari as the only team without a set budget, ie
whatever it costs (thank-you FIAT).  Current offers of 12M sterling to
Senna & Mansell seem to back this up.

>I believe that Prost had asked for $X amount to make Ligier competitive, but
>was only promised somewhere around half of what he originally had asked for.
and I read that figure was 500M FF.

>over the issue, so be it.  Frank Williams lost the Honda engines that gave
>them the championship because he refused to allow Honda to force him to put a
>Japanese driver on the team.
Of course a more cynical person might suggest that the Japanese lost
confidence in him to manage an F1 team cos' he'd been made
quadra(para?)plegic in a car accident (and such a cynical person is the
great FW himself).

Anybody see the BBC interview with Mansell?  To demonstrate how much
better than Patrese he is, he quoted the times acheived in practise,
and asked you to draw your own conclusions.  However, according to the
Sunday Times on the morning of the big race (Silverstone of course!),
Williams pulled out a newer version of the yet-to-be-introduced new
engine (I forget the nomenclature), and it was this that enabled
Mansell to lap 2secs quicker than Patrese's best.  And before you
start, yes I do think Mansell is a better driver than Patrese (but
would you rather be a middle-aged brummy married with kids and stuck in
Florida, or a younger Italian 'Playboy' living the good life in Monte
Carlo?).

On the subject of all these rumours about who goes where.  Financial
Times confirmed rumours that Honda are thinking of pulling out of F1
for the 93 season (and going to INDY racing in the US "...needs new
marketing initiatives..") - no decision reached yet.

Then how about...
McLaren now free to take the Renault engine and Prost with it.  Senna
gets upset and goes to Ferrari (for 12M STG, cos he can't win
anything).  Williams keep Mansell and get Ford.  And who knows what
else (or indeed anything!).

No-one has mentioned Elf in the Williams/Renault equation.  This puts
extra weight on the we-want-a-frenchman-driving-or-we'll-take-our-bat-home
argument.

Just spurious thoughts.

Rob.

ps Still hoping for a GB 123 before the end of season (Mansell,Brundle,Herbert).
-- 
Robert J Greenwood
rob@sbil.co.uk
From: danjones@pyrps5.eng.pyramid.com (Dan Jones)
Newsgroups: rec.autos.sport
Subject: Ted Prappas (Was: Whats Mario's excuse this time?)
Keywords: pit lane, Michael
Date: 24 Jul 92 05:32:02 GMT
Organization: Pyramid Technology Corporation, Mountain View

jeff.sherota writes:
>guido.a.rijo writes:
>>
>>Clam down Dougw,
>>Do you think Rahal's crew would have send him out if
>>it was Ted Prapas coming up to speed?.         ...
>>             ...         Whether you like or not Michael    ...
>
>I agree.  Although I am not a Michael fan, I think that if the roles were
>reversed and Michael pulled out in front of Bobby like that, you guys
>would be giving Michael EVEN MORE heat about being reckless.
>
>				Jeff Sherota

Ted Prappas is a very competent IndyCar driver.  No, he probably won't ever
be a front runner, but he doesn't need these kinds of comments to further
his career.  Last year he finished 6th at LongBeach, lost to Jeff Andretti
for rookie of the year.   At the Indy 500 this year, he was several laps up
on Lyn St James, his rival for Indy 500 rookie, when his engine let go late 
in the race.

Its one thing to wail on Michael, Al Jr, Mario, Nigel, Senna, Prost, but come
on, lay off the guys like Prappas.  You race potatoes.

Dan Jones
Newsgroups: rec.autos.sport
From: rob@sbil.co.uk (Robert  Greenwood)
Subject: Re: Pike's Peak
Reply-To: rob@sbil.co.uk
Organization: Salomon Brothers, Ltd.
Date: Tue, 21 Jul 92 15:41:44 GMT


>Happiness is a Corrado SLC, or any 15 deg. V6.

or any 180 deg V6?

Rob.
-- 
Robert J Greenwood
rob@sbil.co.uk

Newsgroups: rec.autos.sport
From: tlm1@Ra.MsState.Edu (Terry Matula)
Subject: NASCAR news (7/21)
Organization: Mississippi State University
Date: Wed, 22 Jul 1992 02:17:58 GMT

Heard some interesting news on NASCAR Live from MRN today...

- Davey Allison hopes to be able to start his car at Talladega Sunday.
  The doctors have not yet given the okay.

- Andy Belmont brought a Winston Cup steering wheel and gearshift to 
  Davey hospital (Lehigh) so a cast could be made for Davey's right 
  hand/arm that would allow him to steer and/or shift.

- Michael Andretti paid Davey a visit in the hospital, lifting his spirits.

- Bobby Hillin has been selected to replace Davey at Talladega.  Robert
  Yates said that many drivers were considered including Cale Yarbourgh,
  Mario Andretti, and several Busch drivers, but Bobby was selected because
  he is a current WC driver (and won at Talladega in 1986).  Bobby said
  that his Team Ireland team would take the race off to work in the shop.

- Robert Yates also said that for Watkins Glen, probably a road-course
  'specialist' would be found instead of Bobby.  No names here.

- Jeff Hammond resigned as Darrell Waltrip's crew chief today.  He is 
  joining a new team with owner Felix Sabatos and driver Kenny Wallace for
  next year.

- Jeff's shoes at the DarWal team will be filled by other people already
  on the team...Doug Somebody (sorry can't remember his name) among others.

Gotta run...I highly recommend MRN's NASCAR Live every Tuesday night at
7pm eastern.  Tonight they five guests in one hour..Tommy Allison (Davey's
cousin), Robert Yates, Bobby Hillin, Jeff Hammond, and Darrell Waltrip.
 
--
Terry Matula
tlm1@ra.msstate.edu
matula@ee.msstate.edu
From: dxandy@cs.widener.edu (Andrew Greenshields)
Newsgroups: rec.autos.sport
Subject: Re: Chicane jumping
Date: 28 Jul 92 21:19:36 GMT
Organization: Widener University CS Department, Chester PA
NNTP-Posting-Host: ashley.cs.widener.edu


  At the risk of opening an old can of worms...

In article <1992Jul28.204713.29316@rdg.dec.com> winalski@adserv.enet.dec.com (Paul S. Winalski) writes:
>
>In article <1992Jul28.124423.12528@phillip.edu.au>,
>t9014143@phillip.edu.au writes:
>|>
>|>When Mansell went off after trying to pass Senna was it through a chicane or
>|>just a cornered section of the track. If it was a chicane shouldn't he have
>|>been disqualified as Senna was in Japan '90 after his shunt with Prost.
>
>As I understand it, the stewards decided to let the Mansell shunt pass because
>the maneuver clearly wasn't intentional and he didn't improve his position any
>

  I don't understand the logic of this arguement (of the stewards).
The obvious comparison is the Senna/Prost incident at Suzuka in '89.  
The blame for the crash is irrelevant in this instance.  Senna was 
disqualified for missing the chicane.  The maneuver that put him in 
the chicane was not intentional and he did not improve his position,
in fact it severely hampered it.

  I wish FISA would get its act together and enforce its rules
objectively and fairly.  I wonder if it has anything to do with the
fact that FISA president was French for the Senna/Prost incident and
British for Mansell's 'excursion'.  Please note I am not suggesting
that Senna has been treated unfairly compared to other drivers, as he
has got away with some very dubious moves also.  Also, I am not
suggesting that Mansell and Prost always get favourable treatment,
since they have been disqualified on occasion. 


  Flames?  Comments?

-- 
  Andrew J. Greenshields N3IGS    |  Some people can tell what time it is by
  dxandy@cs.widener.edu           |  looking at the Sun, but I have never been
  dxandy@cyber.widener.edu        |  able to make out the numbers.
-----------------------***STANDARD DISCLAIMERS APPLY***------------------------
Newsgroups: rec.autos.sport
From: tlm1@Ra.MsState.Edu (Terry Matula)
Subject: Re: WC Mfg's Points & Talladega Controversy
Organization: Mississippi State University
Date: Tue, 28 Jul 1992 01:57:34 GMT

bob@ncube.com (Bob Kehoe) writes:
>Could someone please post the current points standings
>for the Winston Cup Manufacturer's Championship.  I've not
>seen them for ages - for some *strange* reason our local
>news never mentions them

It's a Chevy conspiracy to prevent Ford from getting any publicity
from leading the standings.  :) :)

About Sunday's Talladega race...(spoilers ahead)

I just saw a local news report showing that Sterling Marlin and his
crew chief Mike Beam were very angry about Ricky Rudd's drafting of
Ernie Irvan at the end of the race.  Their contention was that Rudd should
have moved aside and let Marlin by to challenge for the win (Rudd was
a lap down to the leaders).  A quick sound bite from Rudd was "<big grin>,
No comment."  

IMHO, Rudd's action was acceptable.  I've seen stuff much
more unfair.  For instance, the second Pocono race last year as the race
finished with the last couple of laps under caution.  Rusty Wallace was the
leader but almost out of fuel.  Mark Martin was second.  Dale Earnhardt was
a lap down between Wallace and Martin.  Rusty shut his engine off and 
Earnhardt pushed his around a couple of laps.  On the last lap Rusty fired
up his engine drove it powered across the finish line.  Rusty later admitted
that he would have probably run out of gas had it not been for Earnhardt's
aid.  I would have been pretty pissed if I was in Mark Martin's shoes.

--
Terry Matula
tlm1@ra.msstate.edu
matula@ee.msstate.edu
Newsgroups: rec.autos.sport
From: jcsmith@eos.ncsu.edu (Jay C. Smith)
Subject: Lola in F1 (was Re: McLaren Engines)
Organization: North Carolina State University, Project Eos
Date: Tue, 28 Jul 1992 18:39:22 GMT

In article <1992Jul20.184350.17772@utagraph.uta.edu> b617zbb@utarlg.uta.edu 
(George M. Smiley) writes:
>Andretti/Tracy to Lola if Tracy knows what is best for
>himself.

AutoWeek reported (okay, go ahead and laugh at that opening phrase) that a 
Texaco-Lola deal for F1 fell through.  AW says that leaves Michael Andretti
with one less F1 option (if true).

--
Jay C. Smith
Domain/internet: jcsmith@eos.ncsu.edu  uucp: ...!mcnc!ncsuvx!eos!jcsmith
------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Good.  For a minute I thought we were in trouble."
Newsgroups: rec.autos.sport
From: rlsx@cbnewsm.cb.att.com (russell.l.stauffer)
Subject: McDuffie suit: NASCAR/Glen
Organization: AT&T
Distribution: na
Date: Fri, 24 Jul 1992 18:36:28 GMT
Summary: turn 5 dangerous, caused death

Just read that NASCAR and Watkins Glen are being sued on behalf of J. D.
McDuffie's widow, for $4.25 Million.  Their beef is that turn 5, and the
barriers, were dangerous and caused his death.  It says several drivers
(note that it does not say NASCAR drivers) are willing to testify on their
behalf, that the turn was indeed dangerous.  Also pointed out is that
5 drivers were recently injured at that turn.

Poor J. D., mediocre at best, his memory is now tarnished by his wife's
actions, which will effectively hurt the sport that J. D. loved so much.
The proverbial "he's probably turning in his grave...".  He knew the risks
involved.  Hell, the "safest" turn can become deadly depending on the
circumstances.  No matter what you do, there is some danger involved.
A suit like this CAN kill NASCAR, and all other forms of motorsports in
the long run.  Insurance rates will go up even more than normal for
tracks, including your local bullring.  Sponsors can begin to worry more
about their involvement and it's "legal" implications.  What if Winston,
or Bud (it was Bud at the Glen, no??) would be attached to the suit??
It is simply not good for the sport.

I can see the possibility existing for fans to sue if they get hit with
debris or worse if a "catch fence" gives way, but drivers and their
families shouldn't sue for something that happens on the track.

It was bad enough years back when Mark Donahue's (sp?) wife/estate/whatever
sued Goodyear and others over his fatal incident.  Now this!!

J. D. can't be resting peacefully any more.

Russ Stauffer
From: apayton@acorn.co.uk (Andrew W Payton)
Newsgroups: rec.autos.sport
Subject: Barnard to Ferrari (UK)!
Date: 29 Jul 92 16:33:02 GMT
Organization: Acorn Computers Ltd, Cambridge, England


                                       
 British designer John Barnard is       
 returning to the Ferrari team after    
 agreeing a five-year contract.         
                                        
 Barnard, who had a spell with Ferrari  
 in the late 1980s, will head a new car 
 project and research centre to be      
 located in England.                    
                                        
 The unit will design single-seaters to 
 be built at the team's Maranello HQ,   
 where Harvey Postlethwaite is in charge
 of construction.                       
                                        
 Barnard left the Benetton team in June 
 1991 after an 18-month spell with them.
                                        
                                        
 The venue for next year's Asian Grand  
 Prix has been thrown into doubt after  
 the owners of the Autopolis circuit    
 at Kyushu, Japan, filed for            
 bankruptcy protection.                 
                                        
 They have debts of over #200 million   
 and FISA may now seek an alternative   
 venue before finalising the 1993       
 calendar in October.                   



---Andrew

   Information Systems Group    EMail:     apayton@acorn.co.uk
   Acorn Computers Ltd          Telephone: +44 223 245200
   

   "We're going to have to get pretty low to land this one!"

    --Ted Striker Airplane II
Newsgroups: rec.autos.sport