HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: declrckd@rtsg.mot.com (Dan J. Declerck)
Subject: Re: ZX-11 outperforms Harley, obviously (was Re: Harley Outperforms ZX11, Film at Eleven)
Organization: Motorola Inc., Cellular Infrastructure Group
Date: Wed, 14 Oct 1992 21:50:05 GMT

In article <1992Oct12.205813.14783@megatek.com> randy@megatek.com writes:
>In article <1992Oct10.060211.22370@cbnewsj.cb.att.com> car377@cbnewsj.cb.att.com (charles.a.rogers) writes:
>|In article <1992Oct9.233608.770@megatek.com>, randy@megatek.com (Randy Davis) writes:

[stuff about longevity, what the word 'performance' means
 all deleted for brevity (thank heavens)]

>
>  I would imagine so, since they weren't really imported in any quantity until
>the early 70's.
>
>|  Not so with Harleys.  I realize this is more due to the
>|commodity nature of the bikes than to any inherent engineering characteristic.
>
>  Exactly...  Also, Harley has been around a LOT longer.  They WERE the most
>powerful and best PERFORMANCE machines built, which is the reason for the
>beginning of the Harley mystique.  The stories my late grandfather told of
>his Harleys were great, and he was very disappointed to note how far Harley
>has fallen behind in the performance of their machines.
>
>|If the Japanese bikes were more scarce to start with and riders were more 
>|fanatical about preserving/restoring them, there'd be more old ones around.
>
>  Very true.  So, how is this the fault of Japanese machines?

There are a lot of single cam Honda 750's around, all 15-20 years old.

>
>Randy Davis                            Email: randy@megatek.com
>ZX-11 #00072 Pilot                            megatek!randy@uunet.uu.net
>DoD #0013                                     ucsd!megatek!randy
>

Y'know... we ought to put you two guys in a big stadium. Invite thousands of the
press. Tell 'em we're gonna talk about the issues, and try to have you two debate
about the merits of types and brands of motorcycle..

I dunno... This looks real similar to the VP debates...

I suggest either side give it up, you can't win in the other's mind.

-Dan


BTW: my neighbor wons two Harleys, and FLH, and a highly modified sportster.
He likes my EX500 for it's new features and speed, and I like his bikes
for the heritage and looks (you gotta see the paint job on this sportster!!).


-- 
=> Dan DeClerck                      |  EMAIL: dand%isdgsm@rtsg.mot.com   <=
=> Motorola Intl Subscriber Group    |                                    <=
=>                                   |  Phone: (708) 632-4486             <=
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: egreen@east.sun.com (Ed Green - Pixel Cruncher)
Newsgroups: rec.motorcycles
Subject: Re: Shaft effect, What is it?
Date: 16 Oct 92 22:00:38 GMT
Reply-To: egreen@east.sun.com
Organization: Sun Microsystems, RTP, NC
NNTP-Posting-Host: laser.east.sun.com

In article 1207@emoryu1.cc.emory.edu, labrg@emory.edu (Ryan Montieth Gill) writes:
>	Well actually it was a legit question, but it has been answered
>by a less paranoid individual....  

Yeah, me.  In e-mail

>	Shesh you people need to lighten up, that or stop programming 
>	spark stations....its affecting your realitiy reference...

I'll tell you what reality is:  this net is overrun with childish
adolescents who get such a glee out of suckering serious answers to
stupid questions, it is useless as a forum for requesting legitimate
information on motorcycles.

What the hell's a spark station?  And I don't program SPARCStations, I
design the chips in them.

---
Ed Green, former Ninjaite |I was drinking last night with a biker,
  Ed.Green@East.Sun.COM   |and I showed him a picture of you.  I said,
DoD #0111  (919)460-8302  |"Go on, get to know her, you'll like her!"
 (The Grateful Dead) -->  |It seemed like the least I could do...
From: dbc@po.cwru.edu (Dean Cookson)
Newsgroups: rec.motorcycles
Subject: Re: Crash and Burn.  Was Re: 80/81 CB750 s
Followup-To: rec.motorcycles
Date: 16 Oct 1992 06:28:53 GMT
Organization: Case Western Reserve University
Distribution: world
NNTP-Posting-Host: b62003.student.cwru.edu

In article <1992Oct15.200400.5899@elektro.cmhnet.org>,
root@elektro.cmhnet.org (Charlie Smith) wrote:
> 
> I'm going to hate myself after this, but I can feel it coming on and I'll
> claim afterward that the devil made me do it ...
> 
> Need I suggest a BMW?  Sounds like you've got a systemic Honda problem.
> 

Actually, I'm going to look at and R90/6 tomorrow night.  Anything in
particular I should look for?  (it's a '76)

| Dean Cookson / dbc@po.cwru.edu / 216 754-1834 | DoD #207  AMA #573534|
| Case Western Reserve U. Computer E. and Sci.  | KotNML  /  KotB      |
| "You can lead the house to order, but you     | '81 CB750C           |
| can't make it think"  -William Weld (Gov. Ma.)| '88 Bianchi Limited  |
From: alanf@eng.tridom.com (Alan Fleming)
Newsgroups: rec.motorcycles
Subject: Re: What to do with old battery?
Keywords: KMart solutions
Date: 15 Oct 92 20:03:11 GMT
Reply-To: alanf@eng.tridom.com (Alan Fleming)
Followup-To: rec.motorcycles
Organization: AT&T Tridom, Engineering

Here in Georgia, KMart recycles batteries.  I brought them my old motorcycle
battery and they agreed to send it off with their auto batteries.

Think Peace.
-- Alan (alanf@eng.tridom.com)
KotBBBB (1988 GSXR1100J)  AMA# 634578  DOD# 4210
Newsgroups: rec.motorcycles
From: amy@spiker.b11.ingr.com (Amy Spiker)
Subject: Re: If you could pick only 5 bikes...
Organization: Intergraph Corporation, Huntsville, AL
Date: Thu, 15 Oct 1992 16:09:49 GMT


My fab 5 would be (in no particular order):

	H-D FLH + sidecar
	R100 + sidecar
	H-D JD + sidecar
	Indian Chief + sidecar
	Honda Goldwing + sidecar


(Jeeze, is there a theme to this or what?)

		Amy Spiker
		Email: amy@spiker.b11.ingr.com
		82 Virago 920 + sidecar (TheMoped)
From: feinstei@vax.sonoma.edu
Newsgroups: rec.motorcycles
Subject: Re: Idiot bicycle races on non-closed courses (was Re: ignore  -  test)
Date: 15 Oct 92 08:44:27 GMT
Article-I.D.: vax.1992Oct15.164427.1
Organization: Sonoma State University

In article <1992Oct15.180427.305@pages.com>, bigdog!jon (Jon Wright) writes:
> feinstei@vax.sonoma.edu writes
>> In article <Bw1Bo5.J0A.2@cs.cmu.edu>, cain@silverblue.fac.cs.cmu.edu  
> (Sebastian Nightingale Cain) writes:
> 
>> In California there is a "Basic Speed Law" that states that 
>> regardless of the posted speed limits, drivers are prohibited from 
>> driving faster than is safe under the prevailing road conditions. 
>> This applies most generally to weather and such but also applies
>> to people who go around corners too fast, hitting pedestrians or 
>> bicyclists or anyone else unfortunate enough to be in the roadway. 
>> This is just common sense. You don't drive so fast that you wouldn't 
>> have time to avoid anything that appeared in your path. Therefore, if 
>> this ZX-11 driver *had* hit the bicyclists he, not they, would have 
>> been at fault and in violation of the Basic Speed Law. 
> 
> I'm not sure what vehicle code you're lookin' at but according to a local judge  
> here (Calif.), bicyclists are NOT considered road conditions and especially  
> during an unregulated race on public roads (but pedestrians are).  At least  
> that's how it'll be interpreted.  As for me, I ride both and hate idiots just  
> as much as the next dude, but I'm not stupid enough to think bicyclists have  
> such special status they would be considered a road condition.  They can  
> disobey the law just as poorly as the next clod.

Okay, it seems to me that there are two issues at play: the legal 
issue and the reality issue. Legally speaking, you may well be right 
that bicyclists are not considered "road conditions." That was not my 
point in mentioning the basic speed law. 

My point was that the basic speed law says that all drivers need to 
take their specific, immediate environment into account when they're 
driving. Not just the weather, not just limited-visibility curves, but
the environment as a whole. It's meaningless to complain about dumb 
cagers cutting us off or bicyclists filling up both lanes. Of course 
they are wrong, but how does that observation _in_itself_ help 
anyone? How does it keep anyone vertical and smiling? My point in my 
original post was this: instead of whining about all the idiots on 
the road, let's address the question of how we can improve our 
*responses* to these situations. The idiots will always be there; the 
best thing we can do in terms of keeping both ourselves and them 
alive is to acknowledge the situation and think in terms of how we, 
as more aware drivers, can help. What I'm saying is if we're going to 
publicly object to stupidity, we'd better be working on being as
intelligent as we can be; on the road, intelligence is measured by 
the extent to which we can compensate for others' stupidity. 

"Let peace [and good driving] begin with me."

--
Josh Feinstein <feinstei@sonoma.edu>         I disclaim nothing.
PGP key available via .plan or email
Organization: University of Central Florida--Computer Services
Date: Tuesday, 6 Oct 1992 08:41:26 EST
From: <HAHN@UCF1VM.BITNET>
Newsgroups: rec.motorcycles
Subject: Re: Cold weather gear for the poor?

Anyone have any ideas for protection from the cold weather down
here in Florida?  I mean...it got down to 61 degrees this morning!
BRRRR!!!!  I don't think I will ride in this cold weather very
much longer....esp. if it gets down below 55....that would be
asking for frostbite.  I'd really hate to stop wearing shorts
and tank tops, and have to wear a jacket.

Maybe I'll buy a full fairing....any ideas?     :-)
Xref: sparky rec.motorcycles:36396 rec.motorcycles.harley:784
From: cam@castle.ed.ac.uk (Chris Malcolm)
Newsgroups: rec.motorcycles,rec.motorcycles.harley
Subject: Re: New Rider Questions
Date: 16 Oct 92 16:43:11 GMT
Organization: Edinburgh University

In article <1992Oct15.142853.15156@spdc.ti.com> serafin@epcot.spdc.ti.com (Mike Serafin) writes:

>I've got a question for you small ladies and small men bikers out there.

>problems did you have managing the size, weight, and power of the bike? What
>did you do to help you cope with those problems?

In order to give my SO confidence with the heaviness of motorcycles
I took her to a quiet hill, with a bike she could flat-foot both feet
on the ground. I let her ride it down hill on the brakes, with the
engine off, swerving it from side to side, then I'd ride it up again
under power. Kept doing it until she felt really in control of it.

>What do you do once the bike is so
>much bigger that you cannot rest both feet on the ground?

Depends on local conditions. If you can put both feet flat on the
ground, then in slow slimy corners, when the rear slides out, you can
often catch it with a foot and the strength of a bent leg, where you'd
simply have to let a bigger heavier bike fall. If the bike is light
enough that you can hold its weight by the handlebars when standing
astride it, you will rarely actually drop the bike, but end up
standing holding it up. This saves a lot of damage.

On the other hand, if you know your bike and local conditions well
enough, you can ride a big heavy bike and simply not take any chances
of losing it :-)

Sometimes it gets so fiercely gusty here that when your bike is
stopped you need both feet strongly on the ground to keep it up. I've
sometimes sat without moving right through a green traffic light
cycle, because the gusts were so strong that I dared not lift the left
foot up to change into gear. But when the wind is that strong the
police close the bridges to bikes and high-sided vehicles, and most
bikers and cyclists round here stop riding anyway.

The final point about weight is being able to lift it up. It's really
embarrassing to drop a very heavy bike on a deserted rain-swept road,
not be able to lift it up, and none of the occassional passing cagers
will get out and get soaked helping you to lift it up.

I've ended up preferring to ride bikes which I can lift up, and which
I can flat foot both sides at once. I've traded some power and top
speed in the interests of a bike I'm much less likely to drop, and
never have to stop riding because conditions are too bad. A faithful
and reliable friend rather than a more glamorous and exciting but
treacherous one.

IMHO you shouldn't marry anyone you can't lift, or reach the ground
with your feet when astride, either.
-- 
Chris Malcolm    cam@uk.ac.ed.aifh          +44 (0)31 650 3085
Department of Artificial Intelligence,    Edinburgh University
5 Forrest Hill, Edinburgh, EH1 2QL, UK                DoD #205
From: fist@iscp.Bellcore.COM (Richard Pierson)
Newsgroups: rec.motorcycles
Subject: Re: Leaning into it
Date: 16 Oct 92 04:07:00 GMT
Reply-To: fist@iscp.Bellcore.COM (Richard Pierson)
Distribution: usa
Organization: Bell Communications Research (Bellcore)

I remember my buddies Suzuki...could go either way..on
or off you just had to change sprockets..80cc twocyle,
It was cute, had both sprockets on the rear wheel and
all you had to do was loosen the axle adjusters and move
the rear wheel back to take up slack or move it fwd to
get slack. It was back in..ah...ah...67...no 64.
-- 
##########################################################
There are only two types of ships in the NAVY; SUBMARINES 
                 and TARGETS !!!
#1/XS1100LH	#2/10/10/92
Richard Pierson E06584 vnet: [908] 699-6063
Internet: fist@iscp.belcore.com,|| UUNET:uunet!bcr!fist  
#include <std.disclaimer> My opinions are my own!!!
I Don't shop in malls, I by my jeans, jackets and ammo
in the same store.
Organization: Penn State University
Date: Wed, 14 Oct 1992 20:43:56 EDT
From: <ESV@psuvm.psu.edu>
Newsgroups: rec.motorcycles
Subject: Re: How far do you commute/Cereal for Breakfast
 <Bw1B0G.I5C.2@cs.cmu.edu> <1992Oct13.135936.14151@javelin.sim.es.com>

In article <1992Oct13.135936.14151@javelin.sim.es.com>,
blgardne@javelin.sim.es.com (Dances With Bikers) says:
>
>cain@silverblue.fac.cs.cmu.edu (Sebastian Nightingale Cain) writes:
>>In article <dbc-121092192101@b62003.student.cwru.edu>  writes:
>>> jld@hpfcso.FC.HP.COM (Jeff Deeney)
>>> > In rec.motorcycles, tjohnson@atcc5.prime.com (Tod J Johnson) writes:
>
>>> > > P.S. Does anyone eat Cereal for Breakfast besides me??
>>> > Yes.  A real man's breakfast.  Bourbon and Wheaties.
>>> Rice Krispies and Beer.  Snap, Crackle, Burp.
>> A real man eats Fruity Pebbles and Mountain Dew.
>
>Here's a vote for Chocolate Frosted Sugar Bombs, the favorite cereal of
>my hero.
>--

Yeah, but they really don't have much ZING until you put
about ten spoonfuls of sugar on them.

Andrew Coll       ESV@PSUVM.BITNET
                  ESV@PSUVM.PSU.EDU
From: shinh@nmr-z.mgh.harvard.edu (Shinjiro Hirose)
Newsgroups: rec.motorcycles
Subject: questions about old bikes
Date: 16 Oct 92 15:51:43 GMT
Article-I.D.: nmr-z.1992Oct16.155143.7071
Distribution: all
Organization: Mass General Hospital NMR Imaging Center


After reading lists of nice bikes people would like to own,
I have come up with a few questions.  First, what are the Vincent
Black Shadow and the Ariel square four?  When were these bikes
made?  Are they before my time or something? (I'm in my 20's).
I also wanted to know how fast is a fast british bike.  I've read 
(in this group) that That the Norton Manx is fast.  How fast is it?
(numbers please).  How do Triumphs perform?
As a side note, I learned how to ride in 9th grade when my English
teacher taught me how on his Triumph something or other.  All I remeber
was that it was kinda metallic orange and that it was *loud*.  I
wonder if it would still seem loud now... 

Just curious,
-Shin
DoD#0670

-- 
====================================================================

Shin Hirose
shinh@nmr-r.mgh.harvard.edu
Newsgroups: rec.motorcycles
From: kjberte@cray.com (Kurt Bertelsen)
Subject: Re: Leaning into it
Reply-To: kjberte@cray.com
Organization: Cray Research, Inc.
Date: 13 Oct 92 16:43:23 CDT


>In article 22360@porthos.cc.bellcore.com, fist@iscp.Bellcore.COM (Richard Pierson) writes:
>
>>Doesn't everybody learn from a dirt bike first...
>

No. I learned on my ex-bosses Goldwing.

---
---------------------------------------------------------------------
Kurt Bertelsen              I am Connor MacLeod of the Clan MacLeod.
kjberte@cray.com            I was born in 1518 in the village of 
DoD# 0538                     Glenfinnan on the shores of Loch Shere.
86 Miniceptor               And...I am IMMORTAL.   - Highlander

Newsgroups: rec.motorcycles,rec.bicycles
From: DEHP@calvin.edu (Phil de Haan)
Subject: Re: Bicycle vs motorcycle flame war, part XXXVII
Organization: Calvin College
Date: Thu, 15 Oct 1992 17:52:18 GMT

In article <1992Oct13.215126.12439@microunity.com> ericm@microunity.com (Eric Murray) writes:

>So they're stupid wobblers.  So what?  Intelligence and courtesy to
>other road users isn't required to ride a bicycle, or a motorcycle or a
>car.  (It should be, but that's another rant).  Our society is built on
>the premise that if you've got the money to buy a vehicle, you can use
>it.  You were able to buy your ZX11 without passing a qualifications
>test.  Those wobblers were able to go and buy whatever bicycle they're
>riding, and get out on the road.  It's the American Way Of Life.  So
>tell me, were you a perfect rider when YOU started motorcycling?  Or
>did you do some dumb things before you figured it out?  If those people
>keep bicycling, some more experienced bicyclist will tell 'em that it's
>a Bad Thing to get out in the middle of the road.


I've read some seriously dumb things on rec.moto, but the above paragraph 
may have moved to the top of the list.  Our society is **not** built on the 
premise that if you've got the money to buy a vehicle, you can use it.  I 
know 12 year old kids that could go out today and buy a ZX11.  The kid from 
Home Alone could probably buy enough for every DoD member in North America.  
Can a 12-year-old use a ZX11?  No!!  I know people in wheelchairs who have 
the money to buy a ZX11.  Can they use it?  No!!  I know mentally 
handicapped adults with the mentality of a two year old who have the money 
to buy a ZX11.  Can they use it?  No!!

Get my point Eric.

Also, being able to buy a ZX11 without a qualification test and being able 
to ride it are two different things in a lot of states.  In Michigan you 
need a special moto certification on your regular license to drive a bike.  
You need to pass a road/skills test to get this certification.  Do you need 
to do any such thing in any state to ride a bike?  No!!

Finally let's hope that some of the bikers refered to above do learn from a 
more experienced rider, so that someday they'll know better than to ride in 
the middle of the road or in an oncoming lane.  Let's hope they're not a 
blotch on the pavement before someone realizes they don't have a clue.



+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Phil de Haan (DoD #0578)            +     We find comfort among those who
Calvin College:  Home of the 1992   +       agree with us -- growth among
NCAA III men's hoops champions      +    those who don't.  Frank A. Clark
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Newsgroups: rec.motorcycles
From: csl@swl.msd.ray.com (Scott Lilliott)
Subject: A DoD Public Thanks To ...
Organization: Raytheon Company, Tewksbury, MA
Date: Fri, 16 Oct 1992 12:09:29 GMT

Ravi Narayan - last weekend the nedod rode the 1st annual Feed-Ride-Feed
Leaf-Peeping Tour.  One Denizen from OR, Brad LaBroad was in town and
wanted to make the trip. Since Brad had obtained a bike for Gary Wasserman
when he had visited OR, Gary sent out a local request for anyone who was
willing to part with their steed for a day for a Denizen and sanctioned
(such as we are) ride.  Not only did Ravi offer is bike, GS500E, he delivered
it to my house so Brad could come by and pick it up!  On top of that, we
found out this week, the bike is his only means of transportation!
I didn't meet Ravi until last night when I drove the bike back to him. He's
finishing up his grad work at WPI (Worcester MA) in Dec. and joining the job 
hunt trail. He's far too modest about the whole thing, but all of us were
very impressed and are very thankful for his unselfish loan.
Thanks again, Ravi!

S.
-- 
   #   Scott Lilliott - csl@swl.msd.ray.com                            #
    #   AMA #600897             "If you push something hard enough,   #
     #   DoD #0227               It will fall over."                 #
      #   INOA #8563                       -- Fudd's First Law      #
Newsgroups: rec.motorcycles
From: blgardne@javelin.sim.es.com (Dances With Bikers)
Subject: Re: Why Aerostitch instead of leather?
Reply-To: blgardne@javelin.sim.es.com
Organization: Evans & Sutherland Computer Corporation
Date: Wed, 7 Oct 1992 19:23:59 GMT

jfh@netcom.com (Jack Hamilton) writes:
>One of the photocopied articles they handed out in my MSF class was an
>article from a motorcycle magazine (sorry, don't know which or when) which
>did comparative studies of several kinds of leather and several kinds of
>cloth.  None of the cloth materials (including the specialty cloths used in
>Aerostich) were even near leather in their ability to resist abrasion.  Is
>that still true, or have the artificial materials improved?

That was likely this:

In the Sept. 1988 issue of Cycle they "road tested" several grades of
leather, nylon and Kevlar. They call 3 oz leather "competition weight".
Also tested were 2.25 oz suede and 1.75 oz "fashion weight" leather.

At 50 mph the results were:
3 oz leather		86'  0" 
Kevlar			22'  1" 
Codura Nylon		18'  3"
Denim, 2 year old	 4' 0.5"
1.75 oz leather		 4'  4"
2.25 oz suede		 4'  3"
Denim, new		 3' 10"
Ballistic Nylon		 3' 10"

In other words, _THICK_ leather is best, but thin leather may be no better
than jeans. One other point made in the article is that a material with
a hard, slick finish resists tearing much better than a rough material.
Ballistic nylon did very well on the abrasion tester, but poorly on the
road because the coarse weave caught & tore.
-- 
Blaine Gardner @ Evans & Sutherland  blgardne@javelin.sim.es.com  BIX:blaine_g
580 Arapeen Drive, SLC, Utah 84108           Favorite road signs:
Dumper of Dirtbikes #46             FJ1200   Winding Road Next 77 Miles
My other motorcycle is a Quadracer           Caution: Passing Areas Not Marked
Newsgroups: rec.motorcycles
From: daved@convex.com (David Dorfman)
Subject: Re: 80/81 CB750 s
Organization: CONVEX Computer Corporation, Richardson, Tx., USA
Date: Tue, 13 Oct 1992 15:57:19 GMT
X-Disclaimer: This message was written by a user at CONVEX Computer
              Corp. The opinions expressed are those of the user and
              not necessarily those of CONVEX.

I thought I would drop in my 2 cents on 80-81 CB750's since I've owned a
80 K and 2 81 Customs ( K's).

They were nice bikes, but if you don't plan on rideing them everyday
I would pass. For some reason they don't want to start if left 
idle for more then 4 or 5 days. Long periods of cranking were required,
at times exhausting the battery.

This happened on all three bikes, after tune ups as well as before.
Needless to say after the third CB I became a believer in Electronic
ignition systems. 

I don't work on my own bike, so maybe there is a way to keep the
ignition system in fine tune, but from personal experience this bike
needs to be riden every day.

Dave
DoD 1085