Return-Path: <wright@cattell.psych.upenn.edu>
Posted-Date: Sat, 26 Dec 92 13:57:04 EST
X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.3 PL10]
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.mdphd-l
Date:         Sat, 26 Dec 1992 13:57:04 EST
From:         Ron Wright <wright@CATTELL.PSYCH.UPENN.EDU>
Subject:      Psychology and Medicine

In response to Mark Snyder, let me say that I am one of those
MD/PhD's in psychology and it is sometimes subversive and sometimes
just tiring.  My PhD is in social/clinical psych and I study social
cognition, especially in the context of relationships (eg marriage
or ward mileu).  In some ways counselling psych is even more subversive
because it's less understood by many people (especially psychiatrists) and
is less traditional than clinical psychology.

I would think that there are many aspects of medicine that would lend
themselves to combination with counselling psych.  Certainly all primary
care specialties (peds, fam pract, im).  Psychiatry is a funny choice.  It
is, of course the one most people will assume you will make.  And it is the
choice I have made.  And in some ways I think it would be the most
subversive -- partly the reason I chose it.  But there is also considerable
duplication of learning experiences, and because of the turf battles, I
have found the psychiatry people rabid about not cross counting anything
that could be counted for the psychology degree.  I thought for a long time
about family practice.  In my experience they are, as a whole, more
accepting of psychology in general, and more knowledgeable about
counselling psychology in particular.  They also seem to be, on average,
the nicest and in many ways the wisest group of practitioners, even tho
they clearly have less depth in some areas.  In terms of a functional
career where you would be appreciated and able to do your work, family
practice (or peds or primary care im) might be the most satisfying.

If you like making waves, I would certainly welcome you as a fellow
traveller in psychiatry/med ed.  I have worked out a deal where I am a
half-time resident (at IU in Indianapolis) and a half-time postdoc (in the
sociology department at IU in Bloomington).  I am just finishing up the 6
months of "medicine medicine" for the psychiatry internship.  I start a
year of research in January (with Part III of boards in March), then go
back to do the 6-month psychiatry leg of internship 1/94.  I'm not exactly
sure how things will go after that.  I may start splitting up my weeks at
some point, but for now this "serial monogamy" seems the best route.

I have found the Indianapolis residency quite flexible with me.  They have
agreed to give me redicency credit for some of my research.  Just how much
is still to be worked out.  I graduated from the Univ. of Penn. and the
psychiatry department there also offered me a position, but wanted me to do
the whole internship without any research, tho they also agreed to both let
me interspurse (sp?) research and clinical work after the first year and to
count some of the research toward the residency.  I leaned toward Indiana
for several reasons.  Their flexibility seemed greater for one thing and
the internship (they have several options; I choose a family practice
service at Methodist Hospital) seemed more humane and hence more of a
chance for me to learn the medicine I want to learn without being
chronically abused (and this has been true).  But mostly I choose the
program because the postdoc in Bloomington (unfortunately > 1 hour away)
was such a great opportunity to get feedback about my work and position me
to do the research that will eventually get me the job I want (probably a
combined appointment in PSYCHOLOGY and in medical education), given that I
did not get you last year when I tried the market.

(As a note, I choose not to go thru the match.  Ostensibly, I'm not
supposed to be negotiating with programs if I'm in the match and I didn't
want to go somewhere I didn't have a contract with.  ALL of the programs I
was interested in didn't fill thru the match.  This may not be true for all
years, but it's something to think about.  I had leaned on the postdoc
people to give me an answer by match day, so I knew I had that as an option
if I got no residency, which obviously strengthened my hand and my verv.
Come match day I got the list of unmatched programs the instant it was
avaliable (7am) and started faxing letters to people.  They all had my CV
long beforehand and had interviewed me in most cases.  (a $100 fax board
for my computer was a VERY worthwhile investment.)  I did all the
negotiating myself, rather than getting my Dean's office involved, altho
they offered to help as needed.  I think this all worked out pretty well
for me.  One warning: If you don't match, the tradition-bound NBME won't
send you a Boards III application, so you have to write them yourself.
Plus there is a 7-year limit between Part I and Part III which I only found
out after the fact (My program took 10+ years!).  (Did any of you read this
somewhere?)  They do make special arrangements for MD-PhDs, but you have to
get a letter from your program director and by the time I got all of this
done, I had to pay a late fee and Fed Ex it in and still almost didn't make
the March deadline.)

Ron

--
Ron Wright                                        Department of Sociology
Internet: rowright@ucs.indiana.edu                    744 Ballantine Hall
Bitnet: ROWRIGHT@IUBACS                                Indiana University
Phone: 812/333-5679                                 Bloomington, IN 47405



--
Ron Wright                                        Department of Sociology
Internet: rowright@ucs.indiana.edu                    744 Ballantine Hall
Bitnet: ROWRIGHT@IUBACS                                Indiana University
Phone: 812/333-5679                                 Bloomington, IN 47405
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU