HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: millerl@wharton.upenn.edu
Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.dnd
Subject: Re: Help!  Tips Needed on Dungeon Construction
Date: 9 Nov 92 01:06:06 GMT
Organization: Newt World Order

In article <1992Nov6.212206.6727@mnemosyne.cs.du.edu>, cmeadows@nyx.cs.du.edu (Chris Meadows) writes:
> I'm trying to build a dungeon, and I'm running into problems. 
> To wit, I'm lousy at it.  I never know what I should put in ALL
> THOSE ROOMS...There's only so many things you can put, and if it's
> a 10 or 15-level dungeon, I generally end up with a lot of rooms 
> with chests in them.

Your subconscious is trying to tell you something; if you don't know
*why* the dungeon is there you won't have a clue *what* to put in it, or
*how* to design it.

First figure out why the dungeon is there. Who built it, and why did the
builder go to the immense bother of building a fifteen story building
underground? The answers to those questions will provide good guides to
further designing.

> Also, should standard passages be 5 feet wide or 10 feet wide?  How
> many people can fight abreast in a 5-foot passage, anyway?

I assume the dungeon was built by a high ranking human or humanoid (or
demi-human) using tools and hired or slave labor.

It's hard and expensive to dig through rock, so the narrower the tunnels
are the faster and cheaper they are to make. Most dungeon makers would
make the corridors as thin as possible, probably three feet, maybe up to
five feet wide, and an inch or two taller than the lord who's paying for
it, for an average of six feet high, forcing your tall barbarians to
bend over all the time while underground. Such tight corridors would
also make the defense of the dungeon easier, since one defender can hold
a 3x6 foot corridor against any number of defenders and only have to
fight them one at a time. Also, weapons over 5 feet in length would be
pretty useless, and only weapons of 3 feet or less would be easy to use.

Smaller corridors would be common in dwarven or gnomish construction, or
in the dungeon of Velkot the Short, who cruelly forced others to bend
over in his presence so he was the tallest person around.

A corridor larger than human size would be a sure tip that *something*
else built this section of the dungeon. Perhaps stone giants, perhaps
amber hulks or purple worms tunneled through here, or perhaps a mage
created the dungeon using spells or lower planar laborers. If one of
these sorts created the dungeon there would be other signs on the walls,
such as large teeth marks in the stone, or numerous blasphemous
carvings, or permanent enchantments.

Anyway, the first thing to do is figure out why the dungeon is there.
Don't make a dungeon unless you know what relation it has to your
campaign world.

-- 
whoah,
+++++++++++++++++++++++23
Loren Miller                           internet: MILLERL@wharton.upenn.edu
Mediocrity is a hand rail.                         -- Baron de Montesquieu
Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.dnd
From: nicholas@bronto.erg.sri.com (Joshua Nicholas)
Subject: Re: New D&D Alignment ...
Reply-To: nicholas@bronto.erg.sri.com (Joshua Nicholas)
Organization: SRI International, Menlo Park, CA
Date: Tue, 10 Nov 92 16:44:44 GMT


|>Yes, but I think CN is forced to balance out his evil with his good, in a
|>choatic fashion.  I think that Ammoral characters would end up just doing
|>what they want.  It's pretty much taking the Neutral part out, and being
|>simply chaotic.  (Not to sound like D&D).  
|>
|>Friar


Why does a CN have to be balanced at all?  They just don't whatever they
are feeling like at any particular moment and if some people see that act
as being good or evil, tough beans for them.

Joshua
From: rsm58307@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (Ron)
Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.dnd
Subject: Bane & Bhaal
Date: 7 Nov 92 02:22:54 GMT
Article-I.D.: news.BxBqM7.BzE
Organization: University of Illinois at Urbana

>>>>Who is your god of evil? I personally prefer Bhaal,
>>>>and it seems obvious that a cleric of such with herbalism
>>>>as a proficiency (or just some money) could purchase
>>>>some poison.
>>>>
>>>What about Bane!??! Forget this Cyric character! Bane LIVES!!
>>
>>Bah. Bane the Wimp. Cyric the Fool.
>>Bhaal, God of Murder, Master of Assassins, the One, The ONLY.
>
>But... NOT the only one who is SUBORDINATE to Bane...
>so PBPBPBLPBL!! :-0
>				-- Lord Bane

*Was Subordinate* 

In my multiverse Bane pissed off Bhaal and was soon thereafter killed.
As for the Avatar Series, Bhaal quickly realized that the perfect time
to kill gods is (of course) when the gods are mortal.
Thus, Cyric, Sune, & company are dead.
From: ddj+@cs.cmu.edu (Doug DeJulio)
Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.dnd
Subject: Re: Hurled Weapons To hit/damage
Date: 9 Nov 92 16:32:36 GMT
Organization: School of Computer Science, Carnegie Mellon

In article <2403@cix.cict.fr> dutech@reseau.Berkeley.EDU (Groupe ELEVES) writes:
>  IMHO, if the bow was designed to match your strength, you get the DEX bonus
>to hit (only) and the STR bonus to damage. There's no way you can get the STR
>bonus to hit. If it wasn't you don't get any damage bonus.

Ah, but an arrow flying with more force is more likely to penetrate
armor and actually do dammage.  So, as a DM, I give it a higher hit
probability (if the PC spent the extra money on a bow calibrated to
their strength)
-- 
Doug DeJulio
ddj+@cmu.edu
From: scythe@byron.u.washington.edu (The Grim Reaper)
Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.dnd
Subject: Re: Help! Tips Needed on Dungeon Construction
Date: 10 Nov 92 20:50:49 GMT
Article-I.D.: u.1992Nov10.205049.15154
Organization: University of Washington, Seattle

In article <sezz1ty00VpO4PxFY6@andrew.cmu.edu> Mike Molloy <mmaq+@andrew.cmu.edu> writes:
>> Also, should standard passages be 5 feet wide or 10 feet wide?  How
>> many people can fight abreast in a 5-foot passage, anyway?
>
>
>It must depend on the size of the character. For example, you could 
>probabally(sp?) have 5 or 6 elves fighting abreastin a 5-foot passage,
>but no more than 2 orcs.
>
>- Mordorwrath

Ummm..... no. No. Definitely no.  An elf is about 1.5 feet wide,
at the very minimum.  If he wants any room to manuver, he'll need
about 3 feet.  If he's got a slashing weapon, or any big weapon,
he'll need the full five feet.  At the most, 2 elves per passage.
From: wade@nb.rockwell.com (Wade Guthrie)
Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.dnd
Subject: Re: Artifact designing
Date: 10 Nov 92 17:11:47 GMT
Article-I.D.: nb.1992Nov10.171147.18801
Organization: Rockwell International


I built an entire campaign out of building a single artifact from its 
constituent parts.  There was this legend about a time when the dwarves and
elves were friends -- and they used their talents to build a weapon (actually,
two weapons, but the other did not show-up in the campaign).  The party found
a mithril blade (blade only) that had magical qualities (this was a tip-off:
mithril is illegal in the elvin territories and magic is illegal in the dwarvish).

For the weapon design, I separated the parts: the blade, the handle, the tsuba
(it was a katana-like sword), and the scabbard.  Each had different magic on it
that, together, made an awesome weapon (for the world -- this is a VERY low
magic world).  The blade was +3 mithril (this was pretty fancy for the world)
and bore the runes of both a dwarvish smith and an elvin smith.  The tsuba would,
when the sword it was on scored a crit, cause the thing hit to incur a time-stasis
(for about a minute); in addition, the creature would glow with a light that would
fade to zero as the time-stasis ran out.  The handle would throw the sword in the
direction concentrated-on by the wielder -- this would add an additional +3 to
hit.  The scabbard was the catelyst that allowed the other magic to take place
(the other magic was keyed to last for 5 or 10 minutes after the sword was pulled
from the scabbard).

The things that helped with the feel of the artifact, I think, were 1) it was
from a time long-ago (not even believed to have existed -- like Camelot),
2) it was a lot more powerful than anything anyone had seen before, 3) there were
aspects of the weapon that they didn't understand, and 4) they had to piece it
together over about 4 years.

I really think that the only way one can design an artifact is to design the
campaign around it.  More than one artifact in a campaign, and it's just another
magical item.  Artifacts need to be mysterious and ancient.  And they need to be
uniquely powerful. 

Hope this helps.

Wade
wade@nb.rockwell.com
From: dutech@reseau.Berkeley.EDU (Groupe ELEVES)
Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.dnd
Subject: Re: Most powerful PC ever
Date: 5 Nov 92 08:06:34 GMT
Reply-To: dutech@reseau.Berkeley.EDU (Groupe ELEVES)

In article <loydb.09r0@fnordbox.UUCP>, loydb@fnordbox.UUCP (Loyd
Blankenship) writes:
> Loyd
> 
> p.s. Level? What on earth does *level* have to do with *power*? Give me a
> beginning character with brains and good contacts over an overpowered
> dragonthrasher any day. :-)

  It is a kind of power (temporal power of the middle ages). You could also
strive to be the high priest of the major religion of the land (spiritual
power), or be the head of the sprawling, many-tentacled underground organiza-
-tion (another kind of temporal power). Or (last), be a master of Arcane and
Lore (arcane power). Some are related to level, and some are not... It's
difficult to pretend to REAL Arcane power if you don't have both might and
the brains to use it.

							Redwing
From: v073pzuy@ubvmsb.cc.buffalo.edu (Damned for all time...)
Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.dnd
Subject: What to do about ridiculous characters...
Date: 5 Nov 92 21:46:00 GMT
Article-I.D.: acsu.Bx9J4J.HK9
Organization: University at Buffalo
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41

A mirror of opposition will work nicely.  Unfortunately, this won't cure the
ridiculous *player*...

					---Me
Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.dnd
From: gordon@sneaky.lonestar.org (Gordon Burditt)
Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.dnd
Subject: Re: I have one word to say about munchkins.....
Keywords: Powerwords
Date: 10 Nov 92 06:33:42 GMT
Organization: Gordon Burditt

>My favorite Munchkin magic item: a necklace which allowed the wearer
>to wear a fully-functional magic ring on each finger, bypassing the
>usual limit of two.  Metamagic rule bending.

This is similar to the Munchkin's Gauntlets of Infinite Ring-Wearing,
usually accompanied by the Ring of GM Control, Ring of Diety Control,
Ring of Assume GodHood, and the Ring of Protection from 
Everything +88,888,888,888.

					Gordon L. Burditt
					sneaky.lonestar.org!gordon
From: tao@truffle.Princeton.EDU (Terry Tao)
Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.dnd
Subject: Re: How do UNDEAD see?
Date: 13 Nov 92 18:08:09 GMT
Organization: Princeton University
Originator: news@nimaster

Many undead have essences on the positive, negative, or etheral planes and
from there they can see into the prime material.

They can sense light, life, and unlife.  I think they can sense walls too -
otherwise a group of skeletons becomes comic.  Maybe there's an absence of
bacteria in the walls which they can sense.  However, they may not be able
to determine between stone and metal for example (wood may have termites
etc, I suppose).  I think they can also sense heat.

Finally, they may be able to sense magical fields.  e.g. a wraith may find
that it can tell the difference between a normal dagger and a +2 dagger,
seeing as the latter will hurt him.

Terry
Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.dnd
From: booth@mdd.comm.mot.com (Greg Booth)
Subject: Re: Help! Tips Needed on Dungeon Construction
Organization: Motorola - Mobile Data Division; Richmond, BC
Distribution: na
Date: Sat, 7 Nov 1992 00:40:59 GMT

In <1992Nov6.212206.6727@mnemosyne.cs.du.edu> cmeadows@nyx.cs.du.edu (Chris Meadows) writes:


>I'm trying to build a dungeon, and I'm running into problems. 
>To wit, I'm lousy at it.  I never know what I should put in ALL
>THOSE ROOMS...There's only so many things you can put, and if it's
>a 10 or 15-level dungeon, I generally end up with a lot of rooms 
>with chests in them.

10-15 levels!?!? Geez, keep them to two or three levels.

Some rooms are simply going to be empty except for rat bones etc.

Of course there are lurkers above an below, traps, bad air,
flammable gases (image of party moving in and out of a
room using cont light copper pieces, then lighting a torch
in the methane filled room---WOOOF)

> 
>Also, should standard passages be 5 feet wide or 10 feet wide?  How
>many people can fight abreast in a 5-foot passage, anyway?

Normally 10 foot mainly cuz dwarven dungeon builders need wide hallways
to move things in/out. 

However, there is nothing wrong with 5' wide or even 3' wide
hallways. I think that makes things more challenging. 
I think 3' wide by 6' tall hallways should be more common than
they are.
("OK, the fighter moves ahead, but gets stuck trying to
get his spear around the corner...") 

>I need help.  If you have any tips on what I should do, please
>post them.  Tell me what works for you, and what works for others
>you've played or GMed with.  I hope that, with your help, I can
>complete the one I'm working on (sigh).

My players love props, ie, I made up some scroll tubes, keys,
etc and hand them out as they find them, if the player loses the
item, hey, so did their character...

They also prefer shorter dungeons/modules. Dungeons that 
go on and on and on and on and on drive them (and me) nuts.


-- 
Greg Booth BSc                    |     /_____________________________
BCAA-PCDHF-BCWF-NFA-NRA-IPSC-BCFSS|@====|_____________________________>
Motorola Mobile Data Division     |     \
booth@mdd.comm.mot.com cgb003@email.comm.mot.com
From: gt6441c@prism.gatech.EDU (Jon Edwards )
Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.dnd
Subject: Other types of PBEM
Date: 10 Nov 92 15:28:42 GMT
Organization: Georgia Institute of Technology

I know this is not DND related, but are there any non-ADND PBEM games
going on out there?  I've always been interested in playing in a 
super-hero type game, but have never found one...

Ghecko

PS- I no longer get rec.games.frp, that's why I posted it here.


-- 
Jonathan R. Edwards                         "In the darkest depths of Mordor,
gt6441c@prism.gatech.edu                     I met a girl so fair..."
Georgia Institute of Technology                     -'Ramble On,' Led Zepplin  
Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.dnd
From: arakins@iastate.edu (Brother Andrek of the Violet Orchid Brotherhood)
Subject: Re: Most powerful PC ever
Organization: Iowa State University, Ames, IA
Date: Mon, 9 Nov 1992 21:17:44 GMT

  Ooooooh...I know I'm gonna get called a munchkin for this, 
and the flames will come rolling in...but here is the most
powerful PC I have ever played:

  A 32nd level human Mage (1st edition).
  The scary thing is, he was made completely fair...I started
him at 1st level...five and one half years later he was 32nd
level.
  As far as magic items, he had 3:
  A robe of protection, +2 (just like a cloak of Protection +2).
  A Staff of Defence (a magic item he designed...it was a charged
    item that could cast spells like shield, mirror image, Minor
    Globe of invuln, etc...)
  Figurine of wonderous power...Ivory Wolf (another magic item
    he made).

  I LOVED this guy, and I LOVED the campaign we were in, the
DM was VERY stingy with magic items, and he kept it interesting
at levels 20th and above...even at 30th level, their were times
we ran away! (A no, this character NEVER killed a god..in Lance's
campaign, God's were unkillable by characters of our meager
level (yes, compared to some, we were still meager)).

  The thing to stress was this was a ROLE-playing campaign...
the characters were simply incredibly powerful when compared
to "the common folk". But when compared to the bad guys...oh boy...

  Please...flame away 

  (invoking the Resist Fire spell)

-- Andrew Akins
   aka Brother Andrek
   Iowa State University
   arakins@iastate.edu
From: seawasp@vm2.cis.pitt.edu (Sea Wasp)
Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.dnd
Subject: Re: Magic Shops
Date: 7 Nov 92 15:04:56 GMT
Organization: University of Pittsburgh
Originator: seawasp@unixd1.cis.pitt.edu


	
	Let's face it; it depends on how you work this stuff. I have several
variants of the Identify spell. Some have a very good chance of getting
all the different powers of the item (but also a virtual 100% chance of
setting off any curses and so on), others are safer but less reliable. 

	I also dumped the Con cost for permanency unless the mage is
trying to do something truly stupendous.

	+1 weapons are expensive, but mass produced.. rather like good
handguns today. Higher level weapons, or nastier magic items like
staves of the magi, are going to be powerful and rare, like bazookas.
Thus the existence of magic shops is a given in my world.

	ON the other hand, in a world where one magic weapon can cost
the creator part of his lifeforce, the very EXISTENCE of a magical 
weapon will be noteworthy... and selling magical items will be 
a rare thing indeed.


                                 Sea Wasp
                                   /^\
                                   ;;;
From: bell@pooh.cs.unc.edu (Andrew Bell)
Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.dnd
Subject: Re: Spellcasting in Armor (was Re: Dual Class Characters)
Date: 12 Nov 92 21:00:34 GMT
Organization: The University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill

n9046319@henson.cc.wwu.edu (Jeremy Corley) writes:
>I don't think shields would
>be appropriate because they wouldn't know how to use one.

What about fighter-mages?  Or cleric-mages?  Considering that with a
non-magical shield, a fighter in no armor can parry only about 10% of
blows that would normally hit him/her, shield skill doesn't seem to be
highly rated here...

And is it just me, or did TSR go all out to weaken multi-class characters?
Being a fighter/anything seems particularly useless, unless you have an
18 strength or a 17+ con.

   -Andrew Bell
bell@cs.unc.edu
Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.dnd
From: ddj+@cs.cmu.edu (Doug DeJulio)
Subject: Re: Hurled Weapons To hit/damage
Organization: School of Computer Science, Carnegie Mellon
Date: Thu, 12 Nov 1992 19:57:29 GMT

In article <5sp1ldm@rpi.edu> jelliw@rpi.edu writes:
>   This assumes that most arrows that actually hit the target penetrate to
>some degree.  Longbows wielded by _average_ archers were able to pierce heavy
>armor quite easily without being created for exceptional strength, which most
>of them werent.  Missed shots with arrows are more likely due to completely
>missing the target rather than failure to penetrate on impact.
>   Therefore, having a greater strength would not increase the chance to hit, 
>and would not merit a bonus.

By this logic, if you don't give a strength bonus to hit for a bow that's
made to take advantage of someone's strength, you should also not allow armor
to make someone harder to hit.  I mean, the typical peasant is going to be
able to shoot right through it anyway...
-- 
Doug DeJulio
Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.dnd
From: LRPR000 <LRPR@UNB.CA>
Subject: RE: How do UNDEAD see?
Organization: The University of New Brunswick
Date: Fri, 13 Nov 1992 16:07:58 GMT

In article <BxKsvA.LA0@news.cso.uiuc.edu> was28667@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (palamino) writes:
>
>Seems like I'm always posting to this group asking about undead...
>
>Anyway, how do y'all handle just what undead can see?  A skeleton doesn't
>have eyes, so I assume that it's a magical vision.  And since undead are
>usually wandering around in the dark, I also assume that light isn't
>required for them to see by.  So do they have some sort of magical
>infravision?  If that were true, they couldn't see each other - leading
>to an awfully clumsy troop of skeletons for example.  So it must be some
>sort of radar, I guess.  In which case, they can see invisible objects/
>people, right?  Hmmm.  Am I just missing some obvious answer?
>
>
>-palamino
    I usually assume it's magical infravision, but also an ability
to sense each other and living things.  But it seems absurd to have
a low level monster like a skeleton detect undead, so I have invis
foil it.  If it didn't, it sure would make that invis. to undead a lot
more powerful...

Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.dnd
From: alongley@cape.UWaterloo.ca (Allan Longley)
Subject: Re: Time/Level (was Re: Most Powerful PC ever)
Organization: University of Waterloo
Date: Fri, 6 Nov 1992 01:35:59 GMT

In article <1992Nov5.055930.4272@henson.cc.wwu.edu> n9046319@henson.cc.wwu.edu (Jeremy Corley) writes:

>	I'm not good at guessing time, but I would say that I give out levels
>about 1 every 4-5 good adventures.  If I were to guess I would say that this
>is about 40-60 hours of play.  Maybe this is kinda long, but we have combat
>_and_ roleplaying. (I know, weird).

That is usually the range I shoot for with 4-6 players.  I am presently
playing a game with 7-10 players and that slows things down a bit, the
average time per level is about 6-8 adventures and 50-80 hours.  I find it
helps take player's minds off getting experience points.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Allan Longley, University of Waterloo, Department of Chemical Engineering
e-mail: alongley@cape.uwaterloo.ca
voice: (519) 885-1211			What am I doing here, its 8:30pm
home: (519) 746-1498
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
           "Ph-nglui mglw'nafh Cthulhu R'lyeh wgah'nagl fhtagn"              
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: dagolden@phoenix.Princeton.EDU (David Alexandre Golden)
Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.dnd
Subject: Re: Magic Shops
Date: 8 Nov 92 17:14:08 GMT
Organization: Princeton University
Originator: news@nimaster

In article <06NOV92.12895154.0070@UNBVM1.CSD.UNB.CA> LRPR000 <LRPR@UNB.CA> writes:
>   How often do you guys sell magic items, anyway? I NEVER do,

>Assessing the real market value of a +1 sword, in terms of the
>time and effort required to create it, by a 16th level mage
>using permanency, with a 5% chance of lost CON and 6 months or
>more of his precious time, indicates it's worth a small fortune.
>Not to mention the value to someone who's beset by creatures hit only by
>magic weapons (e.g. the Duchy is beset by flights of Gargoyles;
>if the Duke has few spellcasters, he'll pay a LOT to have swords for
>his better knights that can actually hit). My sol'n is that magic
>items are never sold in a shop; they're far too valuable, and, as
>pointed out above, an unknown quantity. Most people should be taking a
>month in a major city to find a merchant, noble, wizard, temple or
>thieves' guild with the 60,000 GP to buy a +1 long sword. This puts
>a lot of money in the player's hands (this is a FR campaign; low money
>campaigns should reduce values accordingly). But it's generally true
>that uncle Kaboom's +1 Long Sword should be worth a small keep (though
>not the land and rights to tax the peasantry to support one).
>                             JubbaBones

This whole thread assumes that magic is generally both plentiful and actually
CAN be identified.  The current campaign I'm in has a very limited amount of 
magic items around.  So rarely does anyone sell a magic item.  As a result,
there are no "magic shops".  If i tried to sell a magical sword, I'd probably
be offered slightly above what a normal sword costs:

"Well, that's a really nice bastard sword.  I guess I could offer you 50 gold
for it."

In other words, the merchants won't offer zilch unless they're really sure
they can turn a nice profit.

The other complicating factor is that magic is rarely identified fully.  Some
magic items (my sword, for example) was a historically famous blade, which
was researched at a magic university (that's right, book research).  Other
items we still have NO idea what they do.  Under this kind of situation,
the trade in magic is extremely dismal.

Of course, this only works for relatively low magic campaigns.

Dave Golden.
"Low magic + low power = high roll-playing"



-- 
David A. Golden '95           (dagolden@phoenix.princeton.edu)
Princeton University
Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.dnd