HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: kls@ohare.Chicago.COM (Karl Swartz)
Subject: Re: Aha!  The three-man 767 rears its ugly head...
X-Submission-Date: Wed, 30 Dec 1992 06:51:50 GMT
Organization: Chicago Software Works
X-Submission-Message-ID: <1992Dec30.065150.13652@ohare.Chicago.COM>
Date: 29 Dec 92 22:53:52 PST

In article <airliners.1992.185@royko.Chicago.COM> rdd@cactus.org (Robert Dorsett) writes:

>I have no recollection of a picture of one of these critters, though.  Can
>someone clear up this matter?

Yesterday I flew back from Chicago on a 757, and since United takes
advantage of the common rating for flight crews on 757s and 767s I
figured the guys up front might be able to answer this question.

They agreed that none of the United 767s have a three-person flight
deck, including the second 767 built (N601UA; the first is still with
Boeing) which one of the guys had been on recently.  As far as either
could recall these aircraft were delivered without the third position
though they pointed out that the luxuriously roomy cockpit was because
the original design did have the third position, and one mentioned
that the first simulators had the FE panel.

Note that the first 767 actually delivered (to United) was the ninth
built.  The second one (again, Boeing kept the first) was delivered to
United six months later, time which could well have been spent removing
the FE panel as well as restoring the aircraft after the flight tests.

-- 
Karl Swartz	|INet	kls@ditka.chicago.com		
1-415/854-3409	|UUCP	uunet!decwrl!ditka!kls
		|Snail	2144 Sand Hill Rd., Menlo Park CA 94025, USA
 Send sci.aeronautics.airliners submissions to airliners@chicago.com

Newsgroups: sci.aeronautics.airliners
From: Hayes_Press@qmgate.larc.nasa.gov (Hayes N. Press)
Subject: Re: Aha!  The three-man 767 rears its ugly head...
X-Submission-Date: 22 Dec 1992 13:25:26 GMT
Reply-To: Hayes_Press@qmgate.larc.nasa.gov (Hayes N. Press)
Organization: Lockheed Engineering and Sciences Company
X-Submission-Message-Id: <1h7507INNo79@rave.larc.nasa.gov>
Date: 26 Dec 92 00:01:47 CST




>I knew I wasn't going mad...  In a recent post, I commented on a three-man
>767.  Karl hadn't heard of it, which surprised me, so I went looking for
>it--and couldn't find it--which surprised me even more.  I finally ran across
>this blurb.

>I have no recollection of a picture of one of these critters, though.  Can
>someone clear up this matter?

I don't know if I can clear this up but I can assure you that you are not 
going mad, unless madness is common in aerospace professionals.

The original design for the 767 was indeed for a 3 person-crew (even though 
the anthropometrics were probably 3 man-crew biased).  There was an extensive 
article done in Harvard Business Review (sorry I don't recall the year but it 
is pre-1990) on the design/production aspects.  The article dealt with the 
management approaches used to determine whether the production line of the 
first 30 or so, 767 should be stopped and retrofited "in-position" or whether 
the line should be allowed to continue with the first ~30 being 3 person-crew 
and the ~31st and then on being the two person variety.  In summary, the 
decision was to build the first ~30 as 3 person-crew and then if (when) they 
got certification of a two person configuration they would tear-out the third 
station and make the other necessary changes needed by use of "RAMS" teams.  
These teams would then have only one learning curve on the modifications 
needed, rather than ~30 since the aircraft on the line would all be at 
different stages of production.  

There was even one airline (which I don't recall either, but it may have been 
UAL or someone in the South Pacific) that accepted their aircraft in the 
three person configuration, whether that configuration has since been changed 
or not I'm also not so sure.  

The extra flight station being removed from the original design may also 
explain the roominess of the 767 cockpit.  It is by far the largest I have 
been in with more free space and comfort for the jumpseat passenger.

Speaking only for myself.

Hayes N. Press
e-mail  address:   Hayes_Press@qmgate.larc.nasa.gov
phone (804) 864-2715    fax (804) 864-7793
Good old Postal Service: Lockheed Engineering and Sciences Co.
                                      144 Research Drive  MS 156A
                                      Hampton, Virginia  23666

Newsgroups: sci.aeronautics.airliners
From: mweiss@mis.mi04.zds.com (Mitchell Weiss)
Subject: Re: Aha!  The three-man 767 rears its ugly head...
X-Submission-Date: Tue, 29 Dec 1992 23:26:40 GMT
Organization: Zenith Data Systems
X-Submission-Message-Id: <1992Dec29.232640.16703@mis.mi04.zds.com>
Date: 29 Dec 92 22:53:48 PST

In article <airliners.1992.185@royko.Chicago.COM> rdd@cactus.org (Robert Dorsett) writes:
>
>I knew I wasn't going mad...  In a recent post, I commented on a three-man
>767.  Karl hadn't heard of it, which surprised me, so I went looking for
>it--and couldn't find it--which surprised me even more.  I finally ran across
>this blurb.
>
Harvard MBA folks publish an entire case study on the changeover from
a three-man cockpit to a two man cockpit.  It seems that the initial
production runs of the 767's were three-man.  Now, as a case study
they never said what Boeing did.  Did they change them before sale?

I don't know.  I know little about airlines, except of course
how to buckle a seat belt and pray that my luggage arrives.  :-)




Newsgroups: sci.aeronautics.airliners
From: megazone@obsidian.WPI.EDU (MegaZone23)
Subject: Re: Tire burn-out during landings
X-Submission-Date: 21 Dec 1992 04:08:11 GMT
Organization: WPI USAF -- United Society of Animation Fans
X-Submission-Message-Id: <1h3fvbINNs9a@bigboote.WPI.EDU>
Date: 21 Dec 92 11:30:44 CST

In article <airliners.1992.183@royko.Chicago.COM> todamhyp@unlv.edu (Brian M. Huey) writes:
>the wheels come in contact from the ground due to friction. Couldn't
>this cloud and the effect of friction be lessened by inducing a
>angular velocity upon the wheels to match the airliners speed with

Spinning the wheels would indeed cut down on the tire wear, and I believe that
this has been tested. However, there are problems. When you spin a tire it acts
as a gyroscope and will resists having it's course altered. This can make 
handling tricky as you would have 10 or more wheels all spinning on most 
airliners. Have you ever held a spinning bicycle tire in your hands and tried
to move it? Same effect.

You also need to weigh the advantages against the disadvantages. How much does
the tire wear cost the airline? How much would mantenance on a system to spin
the wheels cost?

Plus you will have the initial cost for the system and the added weight. It is
one more system to break down, etc...

All in all it just doesn't appear to be worth it...

###############################################################################
# I have one prejudice, and that is against stupidity.  Use your mind, think! #
#Email megazone@wpi.wpi.edu  Moderator, WPI anime FTP site 130.215.24.1 /anime#
###############################################################################

Newsgroups: sci.aeronautics.airliners
From: Geoff.Miller@Corp.Sun.COM (Geoff Miller)
Subject: Re: Tire burn-out during landings
X-Submission-Date: 24 Dec 1992 20:54:29 GMT
Followup-To: sci.aeronautics.airliners
Reply-To: Geoff.Miller@Corp.Sun.COM
Organization: Sun Microsystems, Menlo Park, Ca.
X-Submission-Message-Id: <1hd825INN7v@jethro.Corp.Sun.COM>
Date: 26 Dec 92 00:01:49 CST



megazone@obsidian.WPI.EDU (MegaZone23) writes:

>Spinning the wheels would indeed cut down on the tire wear, and I 
>believe that this has been tested. 

It was tested on the Lockheed Constitution, back in the late Forties
or early Fifties.


>When you spin a tire it acts as a gyroscope and will resists having it's 
>course altered. This can make handling tricky as you would have 10 or more 
>wheels all spinning on most airliners.

Two points:

First, I'd think that the mass of the spinning wheels, and therefore the
magnitude of their gyroscopic effect on handling, would be insignificant
compared to the mass of the rest of the airframe and payload and the 
power of the control surfaces.

Second, assuming that the effect *was* significant, wouldn't it simply be 
a stabilizing influence, i.e., a resistance to changes in attitude about 
the longitudinal (roll) axis?  That doesn't sound all that hazardous.


>Plus you will have the initial cost for the system and the added weight. 
>It is one more system to break down, etc...

I suspect that this is the most likely reason this idea hasn't been 
implemented; tires are simply cheaper to deal with in the long run.


Geoff


-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-
Geoff Miller			+ + + + + + + +        Sun Microsystems
geoffm@purplehaze.Corp.Sun.COM	+ + + + + + + +     Menlo Park, California
-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-
From: time@coos.dartmouth.edu (Susan M. Kennedy)
Newsgroups: sci.astro
Subject: looking for Steve Odell
Date: 30 Dec 92 16:20:27 GMT
Distribution: na
Organization: Dartmouth College, Hanover, NH

Hi Steve or friend of Steve's. I've been trying to find an email address for you.
Last I knew you were with Nasa so I thought I'd post here in case you read this
group.How's Kevin?

Susan Kennedy smk@mac.dartmouth,edu
From: ALPAR@TRMETU.BITNET
Newsgroups: sci.astro
Subject: has anybody seen ...
Date: 22 Dec 92 09:48:09 GMT
Organization: Middle East Technical University - Computer Center


  Hi friends
 During last total lunar eclipse on 12/09/1992 I observed a star very close to
moon . The temperature was about -10 degrees centigrades so on my telescopes ob
jective there was a thin ice layer so I couldn't decide if it was a real star o
r an internal reflection . Neither on my photos nor on video cassete I couldn't
 see any star close to moon . The star was about 50 arc seconds west from the m
oon maybe that was why I couldn't define the star on computer simulations .
  Has anybody seen that star ? Can anybody tell me which star it was (HD number
 or something like that) ?

                                                 Alper Ates
Subject: Re: astro gifs 
Distribution: world
Organization: None
Reply-To: chris@chrism.demon.co.uk
X-Mailer: Simple NEWS 1.90 (ka9q DIS 1.19)
Date: Mon, 28 Dec 1992 01:51:38 +0000

In article <1992Dec27.235433.4877@engr.LaTech.edu> ashutosh@engr.LaTech.edu writes:

> i would like to know whether there is an anonymous ftp site for astro gifs.
> can anybody help?
>
>--
>  ashutosh srivastava
>
>

Try "ames.arc.nasa.gov".  Look in directory "/pub/SPACE/GIFS".

Chris
-- 
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
| Chris Marriott                           | chris@chrism.demon.co.uk    |
| Warrington, UK                           | BIX: cmarriott              |
| (Still awaiting inspiration              | CIX: cmarriott              |
|  for a witty .sig .... )                 | CompuServe: 100113,1140     |
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
 
Newsgroups: sci.astro
From: rkornilo@nyx.cs.du.edu (Ryan Korniloff)
Subject: Re: Voyager UVS shutdown
Organization: University of Denver, Dept. of Math & Comp. Sci.
Date: Tue, 22 Dec 92 02:50:32 GMT


Sheesh, with that distance, what is the transfer rate of data? 20 Bits a sec?
I'm asking of the Voyager, mind you. If you wish to state the data
rates for the Pioneers that would be apreciated.


        -- Ryan Korniloff
        -- rkornilo@nyx.cs.du.edu
From: j.jahn@abbs.hanse.de (Jost Jahn)
Newsgroups: sci.astro
Subject: Sunspots at 21.12.1992.
Reply-To: j.jahn@abbs.hanse.de
Date: 21 Dec 92 20:00:00 MET
Distribution: sci
Organization: ABBS AstroMail, D-W 2121 Dahlenburg / Germany
X-Version: ZerUU V6.45c

Sunspots at 21.12.1992., 0 h UT.

No.    Pos.  Cl.  Ar.  Mag. SF  F  M  X
---------------------------------------
7363 11S 91W Axx   20   a
7364 08N 92W Hsx   60   a
7368 33S 39W Bxo   10   b
7369 09S 09W Axx    0   a
7370 08S 00W Cso   50   b
7371 11S 77W Dso  150   b
7372 12S 31E Hsx   50   a
7374 08S 48E Dai  450   b    3
7375 14N 54W Dao   70   b
7376 17N 58E Bxo   10   b
7377 17N 23W Axx    0   a
7378 13N 65E Hax   50   a


No optical or x-ray flares yesterday observed.


 
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Newsgroups: sci.astro
From: "michael daly" <michael.daly@canrem.com>
Subject: binocular question
Reply-To: "michael daly" <michael.daly@canrem.com>
Organization: Canada Remote Systems
Distribution: sci
Date: 28 Dec 92 22:26:30 EST

DA>I'm not familar with these 16x50's however one other drawback
DA>is the small exit pupil diameter.  A 16X50 will have an exit
DA>image size of 3.125mm.  Most people in their 20's and 30's have a
DA>maximum eye pupil size of 7mm.  Since surface area is a ratio of
DA>squares, the size of the image will only illuminate about 20% of your
DA>pupil, wasting 80% of your night sight capability.  16x50's are
DA>designed as daytime glasses, when your eye contract to about 3 mm.

You've got it backwards (most people do!).  The seven millimeter exit
pupil guideline is not the minimum size you should look for, it's the
maximum!  If you use an eyepiece exit pupil _larger_ than your eye's
pupil, some of the light will fall outside of your eye's pupil and will
be wasted.  If you use an exit pupil smaller than the eye's pupil -
that's fine; _all_ of the light will be refracted by the eye's lens and
will illuminate the retina.  You will _not_ lose any of the eye's night
vision capability.

The image dimness alluded to with higher magnification is not due to the
small exit pupils - it's due to the fact that you're looking at a
smaller chunk of sky!

IMHO, the 7 millimeter guideline is a crock.  Few older people have 7 mm
or larger pupils when fully dilated.  If the eyepiece exit pupil is
exactly the same size as the eye's pupil, _any_ lateral motion of the
binoculars will result in some of the light falling on the iris.  This
will result in dimming of the image.  I've experienced this often and
it's really annoying.  A smaller exit pupil will allow some lateral
motion without the light loss.  Personally I wouldn't recommend anything
larger that a 5 mm exit pupil (i.e. nothing lower powered than 10x50,
16x80 etc.).

 * DeLuxe2 1.21 #289 * 
--
Canada Remote Systems  - Toronto, Ontario
World's Largest PCBOARD System - 416-629-7000/629-7044
From: pvtmakela@hylkn1.Helsinki.FI (M{kel{ Veikko)
Newsgroups: sci.astro
Subject: Re: astro gifs (and other images)
Date: 29 Dec 92 09:45:23 GMT
Organization: University of Helsinki

In article <1992Dec27.235433.4877@engr.LaTech.edu> ashutosh@engr.LaTech.edu 
(Ashutosh Srivastava) writes:

> i would like to know whether there is an anonymous ftp site for astro gifs.


Try these (picked up from astro-FTP list, all "images" entries...  all are
not probably GIFs):



# Server, IP                          # Contents                               
# Directories                                                                  
                                                                               
akiu.gw.tohoku.ac.jp                  images
130.34.8.9
/pub/gif/astro
/pub/gif/nasa

ames.arc.nasa.gov                     spacecraf data and news,images,NASA data,
128.102.18.3                          Spacelink texts,VICAR software,FAQ,files
/pub/SPACE                            from mandarin.mit.edu
     
baboon.cv.nrao.edu                    AIPS document and patches,radioastronomy
192.33.115.103                        image processing,FITS test images
/pub/aips

explorer.arc.nasa.gov                 Magellan, Viking and Voyager CDROMs
128.102.32.18
/cdrom

epona.physics.ucg.ie                  Some software,predictions,images
140.203.1.3
/pub/astro
/pub/space/pics

ftp.funet.fi                          PC,Mac,CP/M,Atari,Amiga,databases,Unix,
128.214.6.100                         HP48,OS/2,texts,News,solar reports,images,
/pub/astro                            Satellite elements,FAQ
                                                                               
gipsy.vmars.tuwien.ac.at              images
128.130.39.16
/pub/spacegifs

ics.uci.edu                           images                                      
128.195.1.1                                                                    
/astro                                                                         

iear.arts.rpi.edu                     images                                      
128.113.6.10                                                                   
/pub/graphics/astro                                                            
                                                                               
iris1.ucis.dal.ca                     images                                      
129.173.18.107                                                                 
/pub/gif                                                                       
                                                                               
ns3.hq.eso.org                        Test images
134.171.11.4
/pub/testimages

osgate0.mei.co.jp                     images
132.182.49.2
/free/others/SPACE

plaza.aarnet.edu.au                   images,docs,garbo.uwasa.fi c.
139.130.4.6
/graphics/graphics/astro
/micros/pc/garbo/astronomy

vab02.larc.nasa.gov                   images
128.155.23.47
/gifs/space

vmd.cso.uiuc.edu                      Weather satellite images
128.174.5.98
/wx
Newsgroups: sci.astro
From: baalke@kelvin.jpl.nasa.gov (Ron Baalke)
Subject: Re: Where can I find FITS images
Summary: Where can I find FITS images
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41    
Keywords: FITS
Organization: Jet Propulsion Laboratory
Date: Thu, 31 Dec 1992 00:57:00 GMT

In article <9236611.461@mulga.cs.mu.OZ.AU>, terryr@krang.vis.citri.edu.au (Terry Robison) writes...
>Hello,
>	Where can I find FITS images.  I have IMDISP - and would like
>some more FITS images to experiment with.  Thanks in advance.

I don't know why you would limit yourself to FITS images since IMDISP can
display other image formats, but you can get some FITS images from the 
IRAS CD-ROM from NSSDC (request@nssdca.gsfc.nasa.gov).  Also, there are 
some VICAR images in the pub/SPACE/VICAR directory at ames.arc.nasa.gov.   
     ___    _____     ___
    /_ /|  /____/ \  /_ /|     Ron Baalke         | baalke@kelvin.jpl.nasa.gov
    | | | |  __ \ /| | | |     Jet Propulsion Lab |
 ___| | | | |__) |/  | | |__   M/S 525-3684 Telos | Choose a job you love, and
/___| | | |  ___/    | |/__ /| Pasadena, CA 91109 | you'll never have to work
|_____|/  |_|/       |_____|/                     | a day in your life.
From: j.jahn@abbs.hanse.de (Jost Jahn)
Newsgroups: sci.astro
Subject: Sunspots at 30.12.1992.
Reply-To: j.jahn@abbs.hanse.de
Date: 30 Dec 92 18:50:00 MET
Distribution: world
Organization: ABBS AstroMail, D-W 2121 Dahlenburg / Germany
X-Version: ZerUU V6.45c

Message-Id:   <25741438511@amterm1.abbs.hanse.de>
Sunspots at 30.12.1992., 0 h UT.

No.    Pos.  Cl.  Ar.  Mag. SF  F  M  X
---------------------------------------
7374 10S 73W Hsx  100   a
7376 15N 63W Dao  120   b    5
7378 10N 51W Hsx   50   a
7379 11S 24W Cao   60   b
7381 04N 25W Dso  210   b
7383 05S 28W Cro   10   b
7385 23S 70W Axx    0   a


No optical or x-ray flares yesterday observed.


 
--
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------------------------- for amateur astronomers ----------------------------
    + 49 5851 7896 / V.21, V.22, V.22bis, V.32, V.42, V.42bis and MNP5
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From: stone@cwis.unomaha.edu (Travis Stone)
Subject: Re: Equations that give planetary positions
Organization: University of Nebraska at Omaha
Distribution: sci
Date: Wed, 30 Dec 1992 20:08:01 GMT


See "Astronomical Algorithms" by Jean Meeus, Wilemann-Bell (1990)
for planetary position trig series.

T.R. Stone

Newsgroups: sci.astro,rec.radio.shortwave
From: oler@rho.uleth.ca (Cary Oler)
Subject: Daily Solar Geophysical Data Broadcast for 31 December
Organization: University of Lethbridge
Date:  3 Jan 93 08:32:40 GMT

!!BEGIN!! (1.0) S.T.D. Solar Geophysical Data Broadcast for DAY 366, 12/31/92
10.7 FLUX=129.7  90-AVG=139        SSN=081      BKI=2134 3211  BAI=010
BGND-XRAY=B4.6     FLU1=5.2E+05  FLU10=1.1E+04  PKI=1134 3211  PAI=010
  BOU-DEV=010,009,028,041,027,015,008,005   DEV-AVG=017 NT     SWF=01:018
 XRAY-MAX= M2.6   @ 0222UT    XRAY-MIN= B3.9   @ 0905UT   XRAY-AVG= C1.1
NEUTN-MAX= +001%  @ 2355UT   NEUTN-MIN= -003%  @ 1540UT  NEUTN-AVG= -0.5%
  PCA-MAX= +0.1DB @ 2340UT     PCA-MIN= -0.3DB @ 1925UT    PCA-AVG= -0.0DB
BOUTF-MAX=55421NT @ 1545UT   BOUTF-MIN=55399NT @ 1908UT  BOUTF-AVG=55412NT
GOES7-MAX=P:+114NT@ 2133UT   GOES7-MIN=N:-017NT@ 0902UT  G7-AVG=+084,+029,+010
GOES6-MAX=P:+134NT@ 1901UT   GOES6-MIN=E:-014NT@ 0031UT  G6-AVG=+102,-002,+036
 FLUXFCST=STD:115,115,115;SESC:115,115,115 BAI/PAI-FCST=010,010,010/010,010,015
    KFCST=2224 4222 2224 4222  27DAY-AP=011,008   27DAY-KP=2333 3222 3332 1211
 WARNINGS=*SWF
   ALERTS=**MINFLR:M2.6/SN@0222UTC;**SWEEP:II=1@0222UTC
!!END-DATA!!
From: j.jahn@abbs.hanse.de (Jost Jahn)
Newsgroups: sci.astro
Subject: Sunspots at 24.12.1992.
Reply-To: j.jahn@abbs.hanse.de
Date: 24 Dec 92 09:27:00 MET
Distribution: sci
Organization: ABBS AstroMail, D-W 2121 Dahlenburg / Germany
X-Version: ZerUU V6.45c

Message-Id:   <25189224524@amterm1.abbs.hanse.de>
Sunspots at 24.12.1992., 0 h UT.

No.    Pos.  Cl.  Ar.  Mag. SF  F  M  X
---------------------------------------
7370 09S 39W Cso   60   b
7372 13S 07W Cao   30   b
7374 08S 07E Eki  290   bg   6
7375 15N 92W Bxo   20   b
7376 17N 18E Bxo   10   b
7378 12N 26E Cso   70   b
7379 12S 55E Hsx   70   a
7380 17S 58W Bxo   10   b


No optical or x-ray flares yesterday observed.


 
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------------------------- for amateur astronomers ----------------------------
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From: brunob@hpldsla.sid.hp.com (Bruno Bienenfeld)
Date: Mon, 21 Dec 1992 18:54:34 GMT
Subject: Re: Celestron Fluorite 102
Organization: HP Scientific Instruments Division - Palo Alto, CA
Newsgroups: sci.astro

Dear John,
I would like to share with you and the rest of the readers, my calvaric expi-
rance, when I got my "toy" same 3 yrs. ago.
I'm not going to name and or indicate details except that it was a purches of
a 8" SCT. When I decided to buy, I went to the dealer and ask for a demonstration
insisting to be done during early evning hrs. with the moon and some of the other planets around. After a hr. or so of hoping around  , and examening in and
out of the focus, machanical backlashing etc. I was reasonable satisfyed and
made the purches. I was given a brand new set in the box and happyly went
home. Well, needless to say, I assy. the set same night and than my trouble
started. I w'll not go into ALL details, but could.nt get the focus, backlesh
RA stepping movments to name some. In a course of 5 wks, I was given 3 new
replacment and ALL of tham fail for one reson or another. Since I am a stuborn
egomaniac, I insisted to get the BEST for MY money, and ask the dealer to give
me the tripod from box #X, fork from box #Y and the optics from the DEMO unit
that was on the floor, and I examen it on my first visit. At first he did not
agree, but ....... to mday I am a VERY happy owner of, most probably, the BEST
8" SCT in my area. My only regret is 
, that I carry burden that samebody else bought a lemon of parts that I reject.
 
 Seasons Greetings

 from the log of AA6AD