From: pentangl@spdcc.com (Scott Moir)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: Redefining masculinity
Date: 23 Aug 92 12:33:56 GMT
Organization: S.P. Dyer Computer Consulting, Cambridge MA

In article <1992Aug23.050016.19295@microsoft.com> bobsarv@microsoft.com (Bob Sarver) writes:
>(fjvwing)
>/And what else motivates 'flamboyant gays (*)' according to you? Or is this 
>/all?  Or might there be more you know nothing about?
>
>I view drag & leather as forms of sexual fantasy & escapism.  There's 
>nothing wrong with it; (as such), and if you look in the bedrooms of straight 
>America you'll find that some of our "family values Republicans" are engaged 
>in some of the same things. It's a way to enhance sex, and there's
>nothing wrong with it. 
>However, it is not an "identity" that someone "really is"; it is a sexual 
>escape.  I have been in leather bars where guys dress as cops, or drill 
>sergeants, or whatever.  They're not really any of these things; it's just
>a tool to enhance the moment; sexual role-acting.

Fine, as far as something in a bar goes, I agree with you. You dress up/down
when you go out to party. This doesn't mean that the people dressing in a 
certain style on a dialy basis are out trying to prove something or trying
to live out a fantasy. Go up to a Hell's Angel sometime and tell him that he
is just dressing up and it has nothing to do with his personality. Aside from
the obvious physical hazard involved, what is the difference between that and
saying the same thing to a leather-gay or a frilly-gay? 

>I do not consider nelly behavior to be the person's natural personality.  
>In my opinion, it is practiced, script-like behavior that is no more natural 
>than overly macho, swaggering, beer-drinking behavior that many men exhibit.

So nobody but who *you* define as normal is acting like themselves? They
are *all* just play-acting? I'm not like you, I don't want to be like you,
and I'm not play acting. I wear denim, I wear leather, I have been known
to wear skirts and kilts. I'm not butch, I'm not nelly, I'm a little of
both... it really depends on my mood. Sorry, I don't categorize very easily.
Just call me queer.

>I have watched some of gay friends actually practicing the nelly 
>behavior, trying to get the lines right, because there is a comic premium 
>on being able to do it really well.  Check out "Men on Film" from the 
>TV comedy show, "In Living Color"; the copycats for that are endless.

You watched them -practice- or you watched them -do- it? This ISN'T some
comedy routine. You are minimalizing the way someone acts based upon the
way someone feels about themselves. You aren't considering that not all
men feel male, nor do all women feel female. (At least in the 'traditional'
sense) You are not considering the fact that there are people who act
the way they WANT to, with no consideration for what other people think
about it.

As for 'Men on Film', where do you think they GOT the act? They are going
to extremes from examples of people who really act that way. I know people
who act like that. They have been doing it for a Damned long time. They
aren't copying.

If you don't like 'screaming queens', stay away from them. But get this..
they are part of us. They are a segment of the gay populace that I refuse
to exclude from any advance we make. If we get the opportunity to progress
our goals, but only by leaving a portion of our people out, is it really
an advance, or is it a compromise? Tell me, if it is okay to compromise
on this point today, who will be the next victim in the 'negotiation' process?
Who do we leave out then?

Scott

-- 
Scott Moir / Pentangle / Satyr ______ # "There's really only one requirement 
pentangl@Ursa-Major.spdcc.com  \ \/ / #  for a Prophet, and you've got it."
B4 f t+ w g k+(+) s+ m r p+     \/\/  # "What's that?"
These are my opinions, not SPDCC's    # "A mouth." - 'God' to J.R.'BoB' Dobbs
Newsgroups: soc.motss