HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: h2n5451@sigma.tamu.edu (NOBOA, HOMERO L.)
Subject: Re: 2 - 230MB Drives for Sale
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41    
Organization: Texas A&M University, Academic Computing Services
Date: Fri, 21 Aug 1992 16:51:00 GMT

In article <JEFF.92Aug17151830@dsp.sps.mot.com>, jeff@dsp.sps.mot.com (Jeff Enderwick) writes...
>>In article <1992Aug14.193334.18483@aio.jsc.nasa.gov> bartels@sweetpea.jsc.nasa.gov (Jeff Bartels 283-4167) writes:
>>>Are you kidding? These a RLL 20ms drives. SLOW. I think there is much better
>>>stuff out there on the market for a lot less money. Good luck.
>>
>>Go away.  If you don't like the price, ignore it just like you would
>>a classified ad in a newspaper.  
> 
>I actually appreciate it when people comment on prices that are too high.
>Don't you wish you could let everyone know when you see a bad deal in the 
>paper? What's your beef?
> 
>	jeff@dsp.sps.mot.com
> 
Jeff, You are completely right.

That is what the net is all about. All the comments are very 
important for all of us. What I disagree is sometimes the rude tone in 
wich the comments are made.


Homero.
From: bhall@ccwf.cc.utexas.edu (Bowman Hall)
Newsgroups: austin.forsale
Subject: IBM PS/1 for sale
Date: 20 Aug 92 22:29:43 GMT
Reply-To: bhall@ccwf.cc.utexas.edu (Bowman Hall)
Distribution: tx
Organization: The University of Texas at Austin, Austin TX
Originator: bhall@happy.cc.utexas.edu

I am selling my 5 month old IBM PS/1.
The PS/1 is a 10 mhz 80286 processor that includes a 1.44M
floppy drive and a 30M hard drive.
I have used Stacker (tm) on the hard drive to create a (true)
58M drive.  
Total memory is 640k standard and 2M extended.
Included hardware is an IBM mouse, VGA monitor, and a
2400 baud internal modem.
Software currently on the hard drive includes:
MicroSoft QuickC Compiler
Borland Turbo Pascal 5.0
MicroSoft Windows 3.1
WordPerfect for Windows 5.1
MicroSoft Word for Windows 1.1
Unicom 5.0 (a great modem program)
Norton Utilites Version 6.1
Grammatik 2.0 (grammar checker)
Various Sierra Online Games (unbelievable graphics)
IBM DOS 5.0 (of course)
and much, much more...
The MicroCenter's price for this setup is over $1400.00
without the Stacked hard drive and only a fraction of the 
software.
My price ... $1000.00
My phone number ... 480-9179
My name ... Bow
Please Call...
or email me at bhall@ccwf.cc.utexas.edu

-- 
-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+
Bowman Hall
Department of Mathematics
University of Texas at Austin
bhall@dopey.cc.utexas.edu
From: sjain@cs.utexas.edu (Sandeep G. Jain)
Newsgroups: austin.forsale
Subject: Motif Book Wanted.
Date: 20 Aug 92 00:30:51 GMT
Organization: UTexas Mail-to-News Gateway
NNTP-Posting-Host: cs.utexas.edu


Hi folks,
	I am looking for a book on Motif, preferably O'Reilly series
Volume 6. But I will consider others too. If someone wants to sell 
their book, please send me email or call me.
	Thanks.
			Sandeep.

email: sjain@cs.utexas.edu
phone: 450-1756
From: chrisco@emx.cc.utexas.edu (Chris Cooley)
Newsgroups: austin.forsale
Subject: PC-Compibles Games For Sale
Date: 13 Aug 92 04:40:27 GMT
Organization: UTexas Computation Center Microcomputer Technologies

I've got several IBM games, complete in their original boxes, with original 
materials and with original disks, ripe for sale:

     688 Attack Sub (5 1/4" and 3 1/2" diskettes)
     Silpheed (5 1/4" and 3 1/2" diskettes)
     AD&D:  Pool of Radiance (5 1/4" diskettes)
     Loom (5 1/4" diskettes)
     Wing Commander (plus Secret Missions 1 and 2) (5 1/4" 1.2MB diskettes)
     Wing Commander II (3 1/2" 1.44MB diskettes)

These are available at $25 each, or best offer.

Mail me at the below address(es), or leave a voice message at 
(512) 837-9876.

                                     --chris

---------------------------+-------------------------------------------------
Chris Cooley               | Internet:   chrisco@emx.cc.utexas.edu
Univ. of Texas at Austin   | UUCP: {husc6|uunet}!cs.utexas.edu!ut-emx!chrisco
Computation Center         | BITNET:     cooley@utxvm.bitnet
Microcomputer Technologies | AppleLink:  chrisco@emx.cc.utexas.edu@internet#
Austin, TX  78712-1110     | CompuServe: >INTERNET:chrisco@emx.cc.utexas.edu
Newsgroups: austin.news
From: riddle@tic.com (Prentiss Riddle)
Subject: Re: New moderated newsgroup: austin.eff
Keywords: Electronic Frontier Foundation
Organization: Radio Free Szegerely
Distribution: austin
Date: Mon, 17 Aug 1992 13:57:02 GMT

> This is to announce the impending creation of a new newsgroup,
> austin.eff.  It will be a moderated newsgroup, so news administrators
> are requested to add the following line to their "mailpaths" files:
> 
>         austin.eff      eff-austin-moderator@tic.com

Since there have been no objections, we'll schedule the creation of the
newsgroup for one week from today, or Monday, August 24th.

-- Prentiss Riddle ("aprendiz de todo, maestro de nada") riddle@tic.com
-- Another happy guest at Three Initial Corporation.
Newsgroups: austin.news
From: chip@chinacat.unicom.com (Chip Rosenthal)
Subject: Re: austin newsgroups
Organization: Unicom Systems Development, Austin, TX
Distribution: austin
Date: Thu, 20 Aug 1992 05:22:47 GMT

>chip@chinacat.unicom.com (Chip Rosenthal) [wrote]:
>>The issue of the split aside, how do you feel about the `market' renaming?

In article <1992Aug19.211928.2081@wrangler.WLK.COM>
	bill@wrangler.WLK.COM (Bill Kennedy) writes:
>It give me the mental picture of chickens hanging by their legs over
>baskets of fruits and vegetables.

Yeah, well, we will keep this in mind when you move to Austin. :-) :-) :-)

>I don't think that austin.forsale is broken and I've seen a few wanteds in it.

It's broken from the aspect that we don't have a place for the
wanted/trade/jobs/etc. type postings.  Either that, or we encourage
people to violate the charter and use austin.forsale for such postings.
As a self-appointed Jr. Commander in the Usenet Police, I'd hate to
see us do that.

Is the name `market' more obscure than `forsale'?  Yes, it is.  Do
Austin Usenet readers tend to use `austin.forsale' properly for their
for sale messages?  Yes, they do.  Those are both powerful reasons
for *not* changing anything.

On the other hand, I think we should have a place for the
wanted/trade/jobs/etc. messages.  However, I do not think that traffic
levels warrant the creation of additional newsgroups.  Therefore, I've
suggested we lump them together into a `market' newsgroup.

Can it work?  If we look to California, we find precedence in `ba.market'.
It appears to work there.  With the aid of a regular Welcome/FAQ
posting I bet we can make it work here.  At least I assume Texans are
as smart as Californians and could figure it out.  I'm a Yankee bugger,
you tell me if that's true.

>If I wanted to canvass Austin for a Frammis-IV I'd use
>
>Newsgroups: austin.forsale
>Subject: Wanted new or used Frammis-IV

And I'd be forced to write you a citation for a violation of the Usenet
Municipal Code section 18.4, message posting inapropriate to the
charter of a newsgroup.  This is not an offense to take lightly.
Remember that guy who posted `dinette for sale' messages in net.general
six years ago?  He's still bustin rocks and won't be eligible for
parole until 1994.

-- 
Chip Rosenthal  512-482-8260 | The secret to a long life is
Unicom Systems Development   | knowing when it's time to go.
<chip@chinacat.Unicom.COM>   |  - Michelle Shocked
From: clements@cs.utexas.edu (Paul C. Clements)
Newsgroups: austin.news
Subject: Re: austin newsgroups
Keywords: austin.forsale.computers?
Date: 19 Aug 92 13:34:53 GMT
Distribution: austin
Organization: CS Dept, University of Texas at Austin
NNTP-Posting-Host: lychee.cs.utexas.edu

In article <1992Aug18.232322.14146@chinacat.unicom.com> chip@chinacat.unicom.com (Chip Rosenthal) writes:

>My point is not that a split 
       (between computer and non-computer for-sale groups)
>                               is a dumb idea, but rather from my own
>personal experience I wouldn't see much benefit.  If a bunch of folks
>want it then we should do it.  Otherwise I'm inclined to create new
>groups only if there are some pretty broad reasons for doing so.

As a matter of general net curiosity, do you have a definition of "broad
reasons" in mind?   I suspect that there's a neat Psych 101 study waiting
to be done here.   I've noticed, as I'm sure you have, that MANY newsgroups
have had long discussions about whether to split or not, and most of them
end up in shouting matches.   This tells me that there's some basic
personality traits at work here, and that the whole thing devolves into
personal preferences -- some of us like to categorize things as much as
possible, and some of us like to lump related things together.   I'm a
splitter.    Getting rid of 20% of my workload in any arena sounds like a
win to me.   (You're right, of course, that we should do it iff a lot of
people want it, for whatever reasons.  I'm only looking for insight.)



>The issue of the split aside, how do you feel about the `market' renaming?

I like the idea of a more general name, to include things like "wanted"
and "for trade".   You'd probably also get "for rent", "roommate wanted",
"for lease", etc., don't you think?    I wish we could find a slightly
less ambiguous name, so that people don't think this is a forum for
discussing, say, Austin's real estate market, or (in another sense of
the word "market") whether HEB is better than Albertson's.   But that's
probably a minor risk.

In the spirit of the current goings-on in Houston, would you care to
trade support for our respective proposals?   :-)

Regards,
pc
Newsgroups: austin.news
From: chip@chinacat.unicom.com (Chip Rosenthal)
Subject: Re: austin newsgroups
Organization: Unicom Systems Development, Austin, TX
Distribution: austin
Date: Tue, 18 Aug 1992 23:23:22 GMT

In article <16rnlnINN2b5@lychee.cs.utexas.edu>
	clements@cs.utexas.edu (Paul C. Clements) writes:
>Yes, a small one.    Does anyone but me wish that people selling computers
>or computer components had a special group of their own?    I'd wager it's
>by far the largest subject category on austin.forsale, and I'm not in the
>market.

A quick breakdown of austin.forsale shows:

    followups & discussion	13%
    computer stuff for sale	20%
    other stuff for sale	67%

austin.forsale is currently running at about 62 messages/week.  Assuming
it will double when school is back in full swing (probably a conservative
guesstimate), that would give 24 computer-related messages/week.

I'd say it's real borderline whether computer stuff should be broken
out seperately.  One modification to my proposed scheme would be to
create austin.market.computers and austin.market.misc, but I don't
advocate that.

I'm a close follower of forsale groups because I do quite a bit of
horse trading with computer stuff.  I mention this because the proposal
would seperate out 20% of the traffic which gets in your way.  In my
case, I find that 80% of the austin.forsale traffic is not of interest,
yet I find the overall volume to be low enough so that a good newsreader
can handle the group with ease.

My point is not that a split is a dumb idea, but rather from my own
personal experience I wouldn't see much benefit.  If a bunch of folks
want it then we should do it.  Otherwise I'm inclined to create new
groups only if there are some pretty broad reasons for doing so.

The issue of the split aside, how do you feel about the `market' renaming?

-- 
Chip Rosenthal  512-482-8260 | Let the wayward children play.  Let the wicked
Unicom Systems Development   | have their day.  Let the chips fall where they
<chip@chinacat.Unicom.COM>   | may.  I'm going to Disneyland.  -Timbuk 3
Newsgroups: austin.news
From: clements@cs.utexas.edu (Paul C. Clements)
Newsgroups: austin.news
Subject: Re: austin newsgroups
Date: 18 Aug 1992 15:47:50 -0500
Organization: CS Dept, University of Texas at Austin
Distribution: austin
NNTP-Posting-Host: lychee.cs.utexas.edu

In article <1992Aug18.194709.11795@chinacat.unicom.com> chip@chinacat.unicom.com (Chip Rosenthal) writes a summary of current and proposed Austin newsgroups,
 ending with:

>Comments?  Complaints?  Suggestions?

Yes, a small one.    Does anyone but me wish that people selling computers
or computer components had a special group of their own?    I'd wager it's
by far the largest subject category on austin.forsale, and I'm not in the
market.  Given the large variety, an effective KILL file seems beyond my 
reach.

Conversely, would the people who WANT to buy a computer (or an XYZ board or a
widgetron or a ...) like a place where they don't have to read about dogs,
waterbeds, cars, and airline tickets of dubious origin?

pc

Newsgroups: austin.news
From: bill@wrangler.WLK.COM (Bill Kennedy)
Subject: Re: austin newsgroups
Summary: austin.forsale isn't broken, use Subject: Wanted
Organization: W.L. Kennedy Jr. & Associates, Pipe Creek, TX
Distribution: austin
Date: Wed, 19 Aug 1992 21:19:28 GMT

chip@chinacat.unicom.com (Chip Rosenthal) replies to:
clements@cs.utexas.edu (Paul C. Clements) writes:
[ computers vs other things for sale ... ]

>The issue of the split aside, how do you feel about the `market' renaming?

It give me the mental picture of chickens hanging by their legs over
baskets of fruits and vegetables.  I don't think that austin.forsale
is broken and I've seen a few wanteds in it.  I think it makes more
sense to not fix it.  If I wanted to canvass Austin for a Frammis-IV
I'd use

Newsgroups: austin.forsale
Subject: Wanted new or used Frammis-IV
-- 
Bill Kennedy            bill@tyche.WLK.COM   |     Real friends don't let
                                             |     friends drive Novell
Newsgroups: austin.news
From: cheselka@cactus.org (Michael R. M. Cheselka)
Subject: Re: austin newsgroups
Organization: Capital Area Central Texas UNIX Society, PO Box 9786, Austin, TX 78766-9786
Distribution: austin
Date: Thu, 20 Aug 1992 17:20:22 GMT

How about austin.classifieds !  Lets be different!
-- 
cheselka@cactus.org               N5UVV              Michael R. M. Cheselka
os9@gnu.ai.mit.edu        Hangs out on 145.21mhz       400 W. 34th st. #103
membership@cactus.org                                 Austin, TX 78705-1331
{...}!cs.utexas!cactus.org!cheselka (512)452-9412v ( 24hours answer. mach.)
Newsgroups: austin.news
From: neilf@natinst.com (Neil Feiereisel)
Subject: Re: austin newsgroups
Organization: National Instruments, Austin, TX
Distribution: austin
Date: Thu, 20 Aug 1992 17:32:22 GMT

>The issue of the split aside, how do you feel about the `market' renaming?

One possibility is austin.classifieds (and austin.classifieds.computer).
Classifieds would cover for sale, wanted, for trade, etc.

Neil Feiereisel
neilf@natinst.com
From: stokes@cs.utexas.edu (Perry Stokes)
Newsgroups: austin.news
Subject: Re: austin newsgroups
Date: 20 Aug 1992 23:00:24 -0500
Organization: U Texas Dept of Computer Sciences, Austin TX
Distribution: austin
NNTP-Posting-Host: cs.utexas.edu

In article <1992Aug20.172022.29664@cactus.org> cheselka@cactus.org (Michael R. M. Cheselka) writes:
>How about austin.classifieds !  Lets be different!

Nahh... Too many people have problems spelling easy words...



-- 
Perry Stokes	stokes@cs.utexas.edu	stokes@cactus.org	
PO Box 180203, Austin, Texas, 78718-0203
512-835-0230(h)	512-328-0633 ext. 677(w)
From: jfh@rpp386.lonestar.org (John F. Haugh II)
Newsgroups: austin.news
Subject: Re: austin.music?
Date: 12 Aug 92 02:48:28 GMT
Reply-To: jfh@rpp386.cactus.org (John F. Haugh II)
Distribution: austin
Organization: River Parishes Programming, Austin, Republic of Texas

In article <1992Aug11.212656.18698@pencom.com> gad@pencom.com writes:
>Bob Izenberg writes
>> In article <21313@rpp386.lonestar.org> jfh@rpp386.cactus.org (John F. Haugh  
>II) writes:
>> 
>> # If Bob is offended, let Bob speak for himself.
>> 
>> I'm not.
>
>Not offended or not speaking for yourself???

Not speaking for himself.  I speak for Bob.  Bob speaks for me.  On
alternate weeks we swap places.  This was my week to speak for Bob.
He has agreed to come over to the house and wax the PC 800.  He just
doesn't know it yet ...

Which brings up the next question - when you are going to make it to
a SplatterFest over at Joe Senner's house?  I keep seeing your DoD
number down in the .sig, but I don't see you on tx.motorcycles that
much.
-- 
John F. Haugh II                   | Life's Little Instruction Book:
Ma Bell: (512) 251-2151            | "#138.  Learn Spanish.  In a few years,
UUCP: ...!cs.utexas.edu!rpp386!jfh |  more than 35% of all Americans will speak
Domain: jfh@rpp386.cactus.org      |  it as their first language."
Newsgroups: austin.followup
From: bobp@hal.com (Bob Pendelton)
Subject: Re: SEARS tools protection plan sale hassle
Organization: HaL Computer Systems, Inc.
Distribution: austin
Date: Thu, 13 Aug 1992 16:53:02 GMT

From article <16ci69INNqsc@cs.utexas.edu>, by wardrb@cs.utexas.edu (Richard Byron Ward):

> I wonder if this is all part of Sear's push of name brands.
> Their tools are not  all Craftsman?  

Nope, they are not all Craftsman and haven't been for some time.

> Replacement protection is included with all Craftsmen tools.

Sears is in serious financial trouble ans has been for some time. They
are pushing very hard to reduce costs and increase profits. After my
last experience in a Sears store I'll NEVER go back.


> BTW, is anyone else getting "hassled" by the Austin American Statesman?
> I REALLY don't want a subscription, yet I get approached by a kid selling 
> subscriptions at least once every six weeks.  I am starting to lose my
> patience and I feel sorry for the kids.

Paper carriers are under a lot of pressure to bring in subscriptions.
The kid also has a profit motive to sing you up. So, it's sixes as to
which one, the kid or the Statesman, is actually hassling you. If the
kid won't stop bothering you, call the statesman and complain. That
usually works until a new kid takes over the route...

				Bob P.

-- 
Bob Pendleton             | As an engineer I hate to hear:
bobp@hal.com              |   1) You've earned an "I told you so."
Speaking only for myself. |   2) Our customers don't do that.
                   <<< Odin, after the well of Mimir. >>>
Newsgroups: bc.general
From: klee@cs.ubc.ca (Kenneth Lee)
Subject: USR Courier V32bis Modem For Sale
Organization: Computer Science, University of B.C., Vancouver, B.C., Canada
Distribution: na
Date: Mon, 17 Aug 92 04:19:41 GMT

I have a US Robotics Courier V32bis/V42bis external modem for sale.  
It is about 9 months old and has seen an average of 4 hours of use 
per week.  All original packaging and documentation is available.
I am asking $500.

Ken Lee
Newsgroups: bc.general
Subject: Office space for rent\Downtown Nanaimo\$300.00 per month
From: vincew@coast.almanac.bc.ca (Vincent Willden       )
Date: Thu, 13 Aug 92 15:57:33 PDT
Distribution: bc
Organization: Coast Personnel Services Ltd., Nanaimo, B.C.

Hello Netland,

Coast Personnel Services Ltd. now has office space for rent.

Within our Downtown Nanaimo office (see sig) we have a small, quiet, furnished,
sub-office, approximately 14' x 12', plus common area and coffee room available.
Washrooms (clean & well maintained) are located a short walk across a common
lobby. Pay parking is within the distance of one block and there are one hour
meters on Front Street.  Physically disabled parking is available and the
entrance to the building (Nanaimo Center One) is wheelchair accessible.  Post
Office, Canada Employment and Immigration, a public house, a local newspaper,
legal offices and several fine restaurants are all closely situated.

The rental fee is $300.00 per month.  The new tenant will have access, for a
small a fee, to our photocopier and facsimilie.  If they wish, reception duties
will be arranged.

We have a professional working environment which presently houses recruiting,
desk top publishing and land claims services - all of which work independently.
We are a friendly and accommodating group and welcome more of the same.

Should you be interested in knowing more about this vacancy and potential
business residence, please contact:

vincew@coast.almanac.bc.ca   Vincent Willden
Coast Personnel Services Ltd., 103 - 65 Front Street, Nanaimo, B.C. V9R 5H9
Personnel Placement for Western Canada, From the Heart of Vancouver Island
1-604-753-4465 (Voice)                                 1-604-753-2278 (Fax)
Newsgroups: bc.general,ubc.general
From: hassan@cs.ubc.ca (Moustafa M Hassan)
Subject: Seattle, anyone?
Summary: I need a ride.
Organization: Computer Science, University of B.C., Vancouver, B.C., Canada
Date: Fri, 21 Aug 92 20:23:45 GMT

Is anyone out there driving to Seattle (from the Vancouver area) tonight
or Saturday morning?  If so, I'm willing to pay for the gas as well as 
share in the driving in exchange for a ride.  Feel free to email me anytime
this afternoon or (preferably) to phone or fax me at home.  

********************************************************************
* Moustafa Hassan          |                                       *
* hassan@cs.ubc.ca         |  Political correctness is a euphemism *  
* TEL/FAX: (604) 535-2826  |  for intellectual stagnation.         *
********************************************************************


Newsgroups: bc.general
From: ted@eslvcr.wimsey.bc.ca (Ted Powell)
Subject: Re: Test
Summary: Second test
Organization: Entropy Limited, Vancouver Canada
Distribution: bc
Date: Thu, 13 Aug 92 05:08:51 GMT

In article <1992Aug12.192758.9835@eslvcr.wimsey.bc.ca> ted@eslvcr.wimsey.bc.ca (Ted Powell) writes:
>For those who chose to read this in spite of the subject line:
>
>"The best time to conduct a rain dance is when you see the clouds beginning
>to gather."
>
>(just so this posting isn't a total loss for others :-)
>
>-- 
>ted@eslvcr.wimsey.bc.ca   {ubc-cs,uunet}!van-bc!eslvcr!ted   (Ted Powell)

Test #2

-- 
ted@eslvcr.wimsey.bc.ca   {ubc-cs,uunet}!van-bc!eslvcr!ted   (Ted Powell)
Newsgroups: bc.general,ubc.general
From: probst@fraser.sfu.ca (Scott Probst)
Subject: Re: Seattle, anyone?
Organization: Simon Fraser University, Burnaby, B.C., Canada
Date: Fri, 21 Aug 1992 20:37:35 GMT

In article <1992Aug21.202345.24264@cs.ubc.ca> hassan@cs.ubc.ca (Moustafa M Hassan) writes:
>********************************************************************
>* Moustafa Hassan          |                                       *
>* hassan@cs.ubc.ca         |  Political correctness is a euphemism *  
>* TEL/FAX: (604) 535-2826  |  for intellectual stagnation.         *
>********************************************************************

just thought is worth a comment: "political correctness" doesn't exist,
except in the minds of those who want to dismiss pressure to stop
treating the world as if it exists in convenient, predetermined categories
that allow us to easily dismiss the rights of others. "political 
correctness" was invented by those who refuse to open themselves to
change.
-- 
Scott Probst: Brain and Behaviour Laboratory, Psychology dept, SFU
              Graduate Issues Officer, Simon Fraser Student Society.
e-mail: probst@fraser.sfu.ca - ph: (604) 291 3354/3181 - fax: (604) 291 5843
              "yes, well, and here we go again..." - Dr H. S. Thompson
Newsgroups: bc.general
From: hassan@cs.ubc.ca (Moustafa Hassan)
Subject: Seattle, anyone?
Followup-To: hassan@cs.ubc.ca
Reply-To: hassan@cs.ubc.ca (Moustafa Hassan)
Organization: University of British Columbia, Vancouver, B.C., Canada
Date: Thu, 13 Aug 92 18:49:51 GMT

For those living in the lower mainland:

If anyone is driving down to Seattle this weekend (Friday night or
Saturday) and wants a companion, I'm available.  8^)

I'm willing to pay for the gas and split the driving.  Thanks.
(Anything's better than greyhound...)



-- 
********************************************************************
* Moustafa Hassan          |                                       *
* hassan@cs.ubc.ca         |  Political correctness is a euphemism *  
* TEL/FAX: (604) 535-2826  |  for intellectual stagnation.         *
********************************************************************
Newsgroups: bc.general