HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: corun@access.digex.com (Corun MacAnndra)
Subject: Re: the US elections...
Organization: Express Access Online Communications, Greenbelt, MD USA
Distribution: usa
Date: Wed, 11 Nov 1992 15:05:51 GMT

In article <1992Nov10.222604.28429@s1.gov> lip@s1.gov (Loren I. Petrich) writes:
>
>	It would be amusing to see how a lot of classic literature
>fares. I'm sure that the Bible would get at least an R rating from
>some of _its_ contents, for instance.

Just a side question. Anyone in Oregon have any details on what's happening
to the school teacher who read _Treasure Island_ to his class and is now
in danger of being fired for it? It seems that some fundy family noticed that
the word "confounded" was in the book, and upon looking it up, discovered
that it was a "mild oath." The parents of the student want the book banned,
and the teacher fired. Is it something in the water up there?

Bb,
Corun

-- 
===========================================================================
    Corun MacAnndra    |    My opinions *are* those of my boss, because
  Dark Horde by birth  |   he is me, and I am he, and we are all together.
    Moritu by choice   |                 Coo coo cachoob.
Newsgroups: alt.pagan
From: radzy@ICSI.Berkeley.EDU (T. O. Radzykewycz)
Subject: Robin Hood -- help!
Organization: International Computer Science Institute, Berkeley, CA, U.S.A.
Distribution: ba
Date: Wed, 11 Nov 1992 18:33:53 GMT


Hi Folks!

Do any of you have a copy of the British Robin Hood episode that
aired on 11/10/92 on channel 54 -- "The Spell"?  My copy is
missing the last ten minutes or so, and I'd like to see the end of
it.  (Argh!)

Please help if you can!  Send me e-mail or call me at (510) 797-5190
if you can lend me your copy.  Thanks!

Bear Blessings!

		-- radzy

------------------------------------------------------------
					|  An it harm none,
	T. O. Radzykewycz	     	|  do as ye will.
	The Incredible Radical Cabbage	|
					|  "Just pray for a
	radzy@cogsci.berkeley.edu       |  tough hide and a
	        			|  tender heart."
	        			|    -- Ruth Graham
------------------------------------------------------------
Tribal Mother was old, and lay ill on a bed of moss and
fern.   Her hair was long and grey.   Her face was very
wrinkled.    Tamura'nun-pa thought:   How beautiful you
are, Mother, so old and wise.
From: ailsa%ailanth.uucp@wang.com (Ailsa N.T. Murphy)
Newsgroups: alt.pagan
Subject: "dweebies," inter-pagan hatred, and Tom Lehrer
Date: 12 Nov 92 14:10:34 GMT
Reply-To: ailanth!ailsa@wang.com (Ailsa N.T. Murphy)
Organization: Ailanthus Project

you know, when i first discovered alt.pagan, two to two and a half
years ago, i started writing a filk of Tom Lehrer's "National
Brotherhood Week":

Oh the Wiccans
Hate the Satanists
And the Satanists
Hate the Wiccans
And Dianics
Hate the Asatru
And everyone hates Clay and Tim...

that's as far as i ever got with it, and probably a lot of peopel here
won't get the Clay and Tim reference, since they've both been gone a
while.  BUT...

all thsi interpaganism rivalry hangs on, and everyone hates everyone
else.  it's a serious drag folkses.  i mean, if some peopel want to run
around and claim to be fifth-level wizards, so what?  every aspect of
human life attracts its share of silly people, and everyone's
definition of "silly" differs.  some people consider all of paganism
silly, i imagine.  so if we are all silly by someone's standards, why
do we have to be so vituperative towards people who are silly by ours?
even if THEY stopped being silly, that woudl not make OUR nice,
sensible, RATIONAL paganism more acceptable to those who are inclined
to dislike paganism.

this really reminds me of conservativce gay people who diatribe against
the flamboyant and the campy, saying that it is THOSE AWFUL PEOPLE who
make it rough for the rest of us.  so paganism has its own form of
camp.  so what?  the people who choose to be bizarre have a right to be
bizarre, just as the people who choose to blend into the woodwork have
a right to do so.  if you don't like it, don't circle or [insert your
favorite verb] with them.  there is nothign forcing you to hang out
with people you find irredeemably silly.

                                                  -ailsa

=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
                    ailsa%ailanth.uucp@wang.com
                                                        ________
I don't care what consequence it brings,        Silence \      / Action
I have been a fool for lesser things.              =     \    /    =
                                                 Death    \  /    Life
                                                           \/
From: gil@Gilsys.DIALix.oz.au (Gil Hardwick)
Newsgroups: alt.pagan
Subject: How the hell can religion and action not be related?
Distribution: world
Date: Mon, 09 Nov 92 07:15:57 GMT
Organization: STAFF STRATEGIES - Anthropologists & Training Agents


In article <Bx9IKB.Fp6@inews.Intel.COM> pharvey@mipos3.intel.com writes:

 > Don't ever, as Bush would say, never ever ever, let anyone tell you that
 > "Hinduism" is not pagan. "Hinduism" defines paganism. The history of India
 > and its struggle for unity of diversity is symbolic of what the rest of
 > the world is now discovering, mostly for the first time. We are not
 > homogenious, man can not live by God alone, nor can woman. We the people of
 > the earth are culturally diverse; now, can we just get along?

At times insight appears here in alt.pagan of cosmic proportions, not
found anywhere else on the Internet. All the banter and silliness does
indeed stimulate the mind to great thoughts.

Paul Harvey, blessings unto you, to all your wives and the fruit of
their womb, unto all your generations. May your seed not fall among
thorns and hard ground, that your tribe increase . . .

 > >Well score another point against the Christians who have described us as
 > >idol-worshipping pagans..... they actually caused this confusion for
 > >me. 
 >  
 > Actually, it is they who are the idol-worshipping pagans, only they are in
 > denial and that ain't a river in Egypt.
 >  
 > >But definitely I will keep reading this newsgroup, as I have got a lot
 > >of interest in the kind of postings I find here ... the ones by
 > >Eshin-Fun on the evolution of religion was most revealing to me.
 >  
 > Hey, keep reading and post a little too why dontcha? You've already got
 > some followup requests for information about Indian paganism, so what's
 > holding ya back?

So, what is holding ya back? Any of ya, for that matter?

--
Gil Hardwick                                      gil@Gilsys.DIALix.oz.au
Independent Consulting Ethnologist                            3:690/660.6
PERTH, Western Australia                                 (+61 9) 399 2401
   * * Sustainable Community Development & Environmental Education * *
Newsgroups: alt.pagan
From: radzy@ICSI.Berkeley.EDU (T. O. Radzykewycz)
Subject: Re: Samhain & Spiral Dance
Organization: International Computer Science Institute, Berkeley, CA, U.S.A.
Date: Mon, 9 Nov 1992 03:24:57 GMT

shaman@mentor.cc.purdue.edu (David Melton) writes:
> 	On Wednesday, I had a discussion with my wife about this.  She felt that
> leaving people clueless was a power-over, domination scheme that limited the
> participants' free will.  I can see her point, even if it was a little over-
> stated. 
> 
> 	I feel that letting the participants know everything that's planned
> takes away some of the wonder involved.

Yup.  I agree with both points-of-view.  Leaving people clueless is
not the ideal situation.  Giving people detailed plans of every little
thing pushes the ceremony even more toward a planned, directed, and
uninspired performance.  But there should be a happy medium, where
you give the participants (as opposed to audience) some idea about what
they are going to be doing, but don't get too specific.

> There are times, especially in guided meditation, when the act
> of discovery is more important than what is discovered.  Have
> you ever gone to the movies with someone who always told you
> what was going to happen next?  It takes all the fun out of it.

Right.  But it also isn't much fun to go to the movies without
being told what *kind* of movie you'll see.  If you expect to see
a horror flick, and instead you get Bambi, you're going to be
disappointed.

> 	I agree with my wife, that the people should be given some indication
> of the agenda.  The decision to participate in a ritual must be made by the
> individual, not forced upon them by the leaders. 

Right.  I've seen some postings in this group by people who found that
they really didn't like some part of a ceremony -- whether it was the
fact that power was raised, but not grounded at the end, or the fact that
a ceremony became a power-over against men, or whatever.

David, you sound like someone who would do a great job leading
a ceremony!

Bear Blessings!

		-- radzy

------------------------------------------------------------
					|  An it harm none,
	T. O. Radzykewycz	     	|  do as ye will.
	The Incredible Radical Cabbage	|
					|  "Just pray for a
	radzy@cogsci.berkeley.edu       |  tough hide and a
	        			|  tender heart."
	        			|    -- Ruth Graham
------------------------------------------------------------
Tribal Mother was old, and lay ill on a bed of moss and
fern.   Her hair was long and grey.   Her face was very
wrinkled.    Tamura'nun-pa thought:   How beautiful you
are, Mother, so old and wise.
Newsgroups: alt.pagan
From: js5370@eehp27 (Jerry A Segler Jr)
Subject: Re: Pets
Organization: University of Illinois at Urbana
Date: Fri, 13 Nov 1992 06:40:48 GMT

since the subject of rodents seems to be popular..I'll go ahead and join in 
with the thread...
Although I don't have any rats, I do breed mice  ($1.50/mouse e-mail me if you
want one) (plug plug)  but they make wonderfull pets. For instance, I took one
of my 3-week old females to WindyCon last weekend and she was a giant hit w/ 
everyone (except hotes security, but that's their job)  They are wonderfully 
concealable in pockets and small boxes and are a real joy to play with  B)
(I have a pinky asleep on my arm as I type)
*rodent power salute*
B)

-- 
--------------------------------------------------------------------------.
| Strahd Von Zarovich       *  United States Department of Undead Studies  |
| js5370@coewl.cen.uiuc.edu *  1600 W. Bradley E-104 Champaign Il 61821    |
| strahd@maria.wustl.edu    *  (217) 359-3642     (309) 452-8684           |
Newsgroups: alt.pagan
From: klotz@lclark.edu (Gretchen Klotz)
Subject: Re: a prophecy come to pass . . . maybe
Organization: Lewis & Clark College, Portland OR
Date: Mon, 9 Nov 1992 18:40:52 GMT

In article <-1364767969snx@Gilsys.DIALix.oz.au> gil@Gilsys.DIALix.oz.au
(Gil Hardwick) writes: 
>
>It is quite on the cards. We have had the Australian Democrats formed
>by the rebel Don Chipp as a spoiler to the two party system here for
>nearly 15 years now.

It's starting here in Oregon.  Yesterday's Oregonian (our state-wide
newspaper) had an article profiling the chair of the state Republican
party, who announced that they are considering forming another party and
asking for recognition from the national Republican party.  This is
explicitly to distance themselves from the Oregon Citizens Alliance (OCA),
the funny-mentalist right wing group that brought us Ballot Measure 9. 
The state-wide Republican party has had an uncomfortable relationship with
the OCA since '90 when the OCA ran an independent candidate for governor
who took votes away from the Republican candidate.  (That's *one* good
thing the OCA has done for us!)

In addition to that history, this year most elected state officials, Dem
and Rep, came out strongly against Measure 9.  And the state Republican
chair appeared in a tv ad against Measure 9 in the last week of the
campaign. 

I'll keep you posted as this develops! 

BB,

- Gretchen

-- 
--------------------------------------------------------------------
"Love is like the Universe, No reason to exist, But here it is!"
			     - Linda Waterfall, "Love Out of Nowhere"
Newsgroups: alt.pagan

> (Not included, a nice post of a public Samhain ritual)

RE Radz comments..... My first ever ritual was with Starhawk about 5 years and 
10 days ago.  It was very enlightening and parts of it left me happy or cold
as the case may have been.  It is only now that I realize that a public 
operation of this magnitude has got to be a bit generic and the power of 
the gathering must be a bit scattered and nonspecific.

As far as guided meditations not being smooth.... this may be a bit of needing
to be flexable and not be 'too guided'... After some attempts at trying to 
follow such guidings I now tend to let my meditations be rich and full of 
complexitys and have built in escape loops if the person calling the meditation
throws in a clunker.

Perhaps it's just a matter of getting into it and then not taking what is being
said too literaly, I suppose.  (But then again this is what works
for me.)

In alt.pagan, markbr%radian@natinst.com (markbr) writes:

> The one or two group events that I've been to recently have been this way:
> they didn't want to say, in advance, what was planned. Anyone out there
> have any good *REASONS* for this? I'd feel more comfortable, and be more
> able to attune with things if I had an idea of what was coming down the 
> road, rather than running head-first.

  Some that I have talked to think that having the experiance 'fresh' for the 
participants and not 'predetermined' has a much better chance of raising raw
energy within the process.  This also lends itself to having things in a 
differing manner.....  If the energy flow went naturaly toward a drumming 
session rather than the programmed dance session.... well if noone is the wiser
then the circle may be a bigger success than if the leaders had stuck to 
a strict time table and series of 'must do' events.  It's part of being in 
a world that is between worlds... a place that is without time or worldly
demands to conformance.

  It's one thing to keep things moving along.... it is something else to tie 
yourself down too tight... I usually get things off to a solid start and then
leave the middle and ending set of events rather scetchy and vague.

				Zanz
Newsgroups: alt.pagan
From: rchilder@us.oracle.com (Richard Childers)
Subject: Re: Need information on herbs that will abort
Organization: Memes-R-Us
Date: Thu, 12 Nov 1992 00:44:27 GMT
X-Disclaimer: This message was written by an unauthenticated user
              at Oracle Corporation.  The opinions expressed are those
              of the user and not necessarily those of Oracle.

>> Could someone please help me with a herbal remedy for my situation ? I am
>> pregnant . I would like to abort by herbs. I would really appreciate some
>> help. 

Pennyroyal.


>The one advantage of herbal abortion is that is is such a drawn-out 
>ordeal, that it allows the woman to fully contemplate what she is doing, 
>and to deal with the immense power of pregnancy. Sometimes, however, this 
>can be too much intensity...
>
>Let me suggest that you also look into the cost, and the availability, of 
>conventional abortion.

Second both of these suggestions ...


-- richard

-- 
=====
-- richard childers		rchilder@us.oracle.com		1 415 506 2411
         oracle data center  --  unix systems & network administration
                    Klein flask for rent. Inquire within.
Newsgroups: alt.pagan
From: ba@mrcnext.cso.uiuc.edu (B.A. Davis-Howe)
Subject: Re: Annoying, cloying "wann-be"s (was Pagan Bumper Stickers)
Organization: University of Illinois at Urbana
Date: Sun, 8 Nov 1992 06:23:07 GMT


My solution is simple:
Talk religion and spirituality at them.  If they are looking for quick-fix
magic, they will go away before I mention anything useful about magic.  This
avoids me having to feel responsible for what they do with what I say.  Only
the ones who've stayed through the "sermon" will learn any magic.  And by then,
I *know* whether they're well intentioned or not.  This is not to say that the
well*intentioned never do anything stupid.  It is a requirement to do at least
one majorly stupid thing in the process of learning magic, in my experience.
But the well-intentioned ones usually only mess themselves up, and come 
screaming for you to help them fix anything which causes real problems.  Then
I explain why we don't do that, and they have learned a useful lesson about 
themselves and the nature of magic.  It isn't exactly easy on the teacher, but
it produces great people.  (And that is the reward!)


              Merry meet, merry part, merry meet again,
                               Br'anArthur

Queer, Peculiar, and Wyrd! :-)

******************************************************************************
Newage is hypoallergenic spirituality--
it's for people who are allergic to the word religion.
                                   --Jon Jay Obermark
From: nlp@pacvax.pacersoft.com (Nancy Pilsch)
Newsgroups: alt.pagan
Subject: Re: Need information on herbs that will abort
Date: 12 Nov 92 22:29:00 GMT
Followup-To: alt.pagan
Organization: Pacer Software, Inc.


 
> Pennyroyal.
> 
> 
I was reading rec.pets.cats, and there is a thread going about natural
repellants.  Pennyroyal was mentioned.  The person who mentioned it as a
repellant also noted that it has been used for abortions, but can be
LETHAL- as in deadly to the pregnant woman.  I know that abortion is a
tough choice to make, but it is still legal for the time being, and you can
find physicians and clinics that will perform an abortion safely.

Blessings
Nancy  
Newsgroups: alt.pagan
From: aaldrich@encore.com (Al Aldrich)
Subject: Re: Tipper Gore? (Re: the US elections...)
Organization: Encore Computer Corporation
Distribution: usa
Date: Thu, 12 Nov 1992 13:41:26 GMT

larne@canetoad.UUCP (Larne Pekowsky) writes:

>In article <2B005554.20979@news.service.uci.edu> cortese@skid.ps.uci.edu (Janis Maria Cortese) writes:
>>and quite frankly I'd like to see just ONE female singer who has a well-
>>developed sexuality who doesn't pose for pornie mags, just ONE who
>>doesn't attempt to make money off of the slut stereotype.

How about Aretha Franklin? I don't know if you think she qualifies
but I sure think she has a well developed sexuality and she has sure
never given off the image of `slut' to my knowledge.

al

Newsgroups: alt.pagan
From: markbr%radian@natinst.com (markbr)
Subject: Re: the US elections...
Date: Tue, 10 Nov 1992 23:06:41 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: n.o.y.b

In article <19043@ucdavis.ucdavis.edu> darsie@eecs.ucdavis.edu (Richard Darsie) writes:
>In article <gate.LD0PTB1w165w@pil.UUCP>, alizard@pil.UUCP writes:
>> 
>> WE WON!!! As I type, Bush is conceding. An important battle has
>> been won. The war for America's future has NOT been won.

Yup. Y'know, this is the first time in my life that the presidential candidate
that I voted for won...
>>  
>>I do not know if Clinton is going to keep his e-mail address. I'll let people 
>> know if he keeps it or gets a new one.  
>> Areas to watch in a Clinton Administration:
>> 1. Gun control. If you feel as I do that it's a bad idea, make a
>> habit of contacting the White House...
>> 2. Censorship. Tippe Gore is the Vice President's wife. She is
>> potentially much more dangerous than Marilyn Quayle, especially
>> as her husband, unlike Dan Quayle, is going to be allowed input
>> at the highest levels of power.
>
>How many times does this have to be said:  LABELS WARNING OF
>POTENTIALLY OBJECTIONABLE OR OBSCENE CONTENT DO NOT CONSTITUTE
>CENSORSHIP!!  Considering some of the lyrics found in what passes
>for "popular" music, as a parent of two boys who will one day
>be teenagers (not yet, thankfully; I have a few more years to
>get ready!) I want some mechanism which allows parents to have
>the information to make (if they choose) responsible decisions
>about what their children are exposed to. I don't want to get into
>a flame about metal or any other kind of popular music, but I do
>have the opinion that there is a lot of energy in this music and
>much of it is not positive energy. Kids who are "well-adjusted",
>have good self-esteem, and a positive home life are able to deal
>with this; many others may not be. I personally never found
>anything objectionable with Tipper's activities in this area. 
>"Free speech" has never been (and should not be, IMHO) an *absolute,
>open-ended* right - there is a responsibility aspect to it which
>is too often ignored. 'Nuff said.
>
>(donning asbestos suit)

The problem is, as I saw a news report on, that there are many record
stores, and department stores, simply refuse to sell *any* records
with stickers on them at all. How do you deal with that?

	mark
Newsgroups: alt.pagan
From: cortese@skid.ps.uci.edu (Janis Maria Cortese)
Newsgroups: alt.pagan
Subject: Re: the US elections...
Date: 10 Nov 92 23:58:41 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: University of California, Irvine

In article <1992Nov10.223604.28686@s1.gov> lip@s1.gov (Loren I. Petrich) writes:
>In article <1992Nov10.051810.18321@mnemosyne.cs.du.edu> pciszek@nyx.cs.du.edu (Paul Ciszek) writes:
>>cortese@skid.ps.uci.edu (Janis Maria Cortese) writes:
>
>: I'm amazed she's married to someone who seriously reads and cites stuff
>: like Marija Gimbutas and Riane Eisler and talks about how we have to
>: change our spiritual relationship to the Earth. 
>
>>Lots of people have stayed married to a spouse who seems a bit looneytoons.
>>That's amore for you.
>
>	Or sometimes economic dependency.
>
>	What would Tipper Gore live off of if she wasn't married to Al Gore?

And how would it affect Al if he were divorced?  People make a HUGE
stink over that sometimes, especially if the man remarries.  He's
automatically a cad, and his new wife is automatically a homewrecker in
current mythos.  (Well, not always but frequently enough for it to be a
concern.)

Blessings,
Janis 
Newsgroups: alt.pagan
From: ba@mrcnext.cso.uiuc.edu (B.A. Davis-Howe)
Subject: Re: Samhain & Spiral Dance
Organization: University of Illinois at Urbana
Date: Thu, 5 Nov 1992 19:40:41 GMT

markbr%radian@natinst.com (markbr) writes:

>(Not included, a nice post of a public Samhain ritual)
>In the (unincluded) post was a comment, to the effect that if they were to
>go to one again, they wanted to get a copy of the program in advance. This
>is what brought this post. 

>The one or two group events that I've been to recently have been this way:
>they didn't want to say, in advance, what was planned. Anyone out there
>have any good *REASONS* for this? I'd feel more comfortable, and be more
>able to attune with things if I had an idea of what was coming down the 
>road, rather than running head-first.

>	mark, who'd rather go feet-first
The main reason I can see is that plans were not set far in advance.  However,
they could at least verbally tell folks the outline at the beginning.


              Merry meet, merry part, merry meet again,
                               Br'anArthur

Queer, Peculiar, and Wyrd! :-)

******************************************************************************
Newage is hypoallergenic spirituality--
it's for people who are allergic to the word religion.
                                   --Jon Jay Obermark
From: kuvamp@kuhub.cc.ukans.edu
Newsgroups: alt.pagan
Subject: A NEW "BEWITCHED"
Date: 12 Nov 92 09:44:00 CST
Organization: University of Kansas Academic Computing Services

Something to get your collective ire up about, that I pulled off the AP
newswire at the local NPR station:


AP FEATURES AND ENTERTAINMENT


A NEW "BEWITCHED"

	(New York) -- A new "Bewitched" T-V series is in the works.  Erin
Murphy, who played Samantha and Darrin's daughter, Tabitha, in the original
show, says the new series will take place 20 years later.  She'll be in it,
along with the original actors who played Dr. Bombay, Mrs. Tate, and Mrs.
Kravitz.  The second Darrin, Dick Sergeant, may also be in it.  Murphy says Zsa
Zsa Gabor will play a great aunt.



Brilliant.  Just absolutely bloody brilliant.  like we NEED this.
						-------Gareth