From: yellowbd@eskimo.celestial.com (Andy Hubbell)
Newsgroups: alt.magick
Subject: Re: Ritual Magick Experiences
Date: 13 Apr 92 08:53:27 GMT
Organization: <<< ESKIMO NORTH (206)-FOR-EVER >>>

mascdb@gdr.bath.ac.uk (C D Burdorf) writes:
> In article <Gerald_Del_Campo.0031@sorinc.UUCP>
Gerald_Del_Campo@sorinc.UUCP (Gerald Del Campo) writes:
> >In a message dated Sat 11 Apr 92 06:35, Joshua@coombs.anu.edu.au
(joshua Ge
> >wrote:
> >
> > JG> mascdb@gdr.bath.ac.uk (C D Burdorf) writes:
> >
> >>In article <1992Apr6.200857.26908@ccu.umanitoba.ca>
mayor@ic15.umeeng
> >writes:
> >>>In article 18018@gdr.bath.ac.uk, mascdb@gdr.bath.ac.uk (C D
Burdorf)
> >writes:
> >
> 
> > JG> people interpret it different ways. the way I interpret it, I
won't
> > JG> talk
> > JG> (usuallly) about any specific experiences I have had. I'll talk
about
> > JG> stuff
> > JG> I think might be possible, or probable, I am not unwilling to
talk
> > JG> about
> > JG> specific techniques or methods or anything like that, but I
won't
> > JG> talk about
> > JG> any workings I have done or the results thereof (or lack of
results
> > JG> thereof).
> >
> > JG> josh
> >
> >There is also the fact that can "cahrge" and idea or symbol by
keeping it
> >secret.  Something about thorowing your pearls before swine :)
> >
> >Gerald
> >
> 
> Give me a break!  You guys like to go on and on about how magick is a
form
> of science and then you are unwilling to present evidence of the
results of
> your experiments with it.  Not only that, but you say you can't tell
me,
> because then your magick won't work and that it will be "throwing
pearls
> before swine."  I've had the same response from quacks and fakes in
many
> different dissiplines.  These are just poor excuses that people use,
because
> they are afraid of being exposed and unmasked.  Perhaps I should give
you
> the basics on the scientific method:
> 
> 1)  Come up with a hypothesis
> 
> 2)  Conduct experiments.  As a result of those experiments 
>     alter your hypothesis into a theory.
> 
> 3) Present your results to the world.  Your results will only be
accepted
> when other people in other places can replicate the results of your
experiments
> which back up your theory.
> 
> If you refuse to present your results or even your experments in
detail, then
> there is no logical or rational reason why anyone else should accept
what
> you claim.  
> 
> Since you refuse to present experiments and results, then I can only
conclude
> that you are deluded and not to be trusted.
In actual fact, it would seem that you are the one who is deluded.  You
presume that a practicing ritual magician actually cares whether or not
you believe him.  Or anyone else for that matter.  The adept *knows* if
his ritual worked for him or not.  Since magick is the *art* of bringing
your own true will into manifestation on this plane I am having a hard
time figuring out why any magician would want to attempt to manifest
another's true will which is exactly what he would be doing by
"replicating the results of experiments" {paraphrased}.  Any how, since
magick is an *art* (to wit, the *high art*) attempting to use
"scientific" method on a form of art seems patently ridiculous!  You
might as well try and "replicate the results" of Da Vinci or Picasso as
to try and duplicate a ritual performed by an adept in the pursuit of
his own true will.
  
A basic point of magick (which you seem to have missed somewhere) is
that it is intensely personal.  All forms of true magick have
essentially the same goal, however the means to attain that goal differ
between them just as people themselves differ.  One method may work
wonderfully for one person and yet another with the same background,
etc. will not be able to get any results from it whatsoever.  So, {if I
may be allowed to paraphrase Shakespeare a tiny bit...} in magick above
all other things you must "to thine own _true self_ be true!"
  
So, if you must assume that anyone who refuses to discuss very personal
things publicly is a charlatan and not to be trusted...  Then you will
find that this newsgroup above all others is stuffed full of charlatans
and liars!  There, now you can go and put on your smug facade of
superiority and tell everyone you can get to listen "I knew they were
just a bunch of fakers!"  {Meanwhile, the true magician sits back with a
small knowing smile upon his lips.}
  
If you are truly interested in magick seriously, perhaps you should
meditate upon the words which were carved above the entrance to the
Oracle at Delphi:  Know thyself.
  
--== Andy ==--