HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: dcorbett@uucp (Dan Corbett x2040)
Subject: Re: Wall Street Journal 8-12-92
Reply-To: dcorbett%srg@uunet.uu.net
Organization: /home/server/dcorbett/.organization
	<1992Aug17.150744.25681@newscan.canada.sun.com>
	<1992Aug17.150754.25743@newscan.canada.sun.com>
	<TOWFIQ.92Aug19100142@nighthawk.clearpoint.com>
Date: Fri, 21 Aug 1992 16:30:01 GMT

In a previous article ai257@cleveland.freenet.edu (Linda L. McConnell)
writes:

>   Gee, would you be interested in what a brand new Baha'i thought of it?
>   :-)

Welcome to the Faith, Linda!

>   I was glad to see it, and thought it could be a good conversation
>   starter.  I didn't really like its overall tone - I found it slightly
>   critical or patronizing.  But overall I'm glad it was there and I
>   attribute its (to me) slightly negative tone on the author's probable
>   ignorance and not on malicious intent.  > Anybody else have any
>
>   opinions?  I'm curious about what a person who knows nothing about the
>   Faith would think after reading such an article.  Would he/she be made
>   curious at all?  If so, it was a great article, in my opinion.

I'm certain that it was not malicious in any way.  The article has
stimulated people.  My boss mentioned having read it.  An individual
who I have been teaching the Faith to here at work sent me an E-mail
indicated that he was perhaps ready to rethink his beliefs from a
spiritual perspective.

  - Daniel

---------------------------------------------------------------------------
"O MY SERVANT!
 Free thyself from the fetters of this world, and loose thy soul from the
 prison of self.  Seize thy chance, for it will come to thee no more."
From: gruber@abraham.usask.ca (Christian Gruber)
Newsgroups: soc.religion.bahai
Subject: Re: Genesis
Date: 17 Aug 92 22:00:47 GMT
Article-I.D.: qiclab.1992Aug21.081555.11132
Organization: -

Arindam,

  You asked whether the Baha'i Scriptures allow for the possibility of multiple
geneses.  I think that the question is almost unapplicable.  I believe it's in
"The Promulgation of Universal Peace" - a selection of talks given by Abdu'l-
Baha in America, that Abdu'l-Baha explains the creation of Mankind.  In his 
explanation, which is evolutionary of sorts, though it does not follow the 
traditional darwin model, he speaks of the form of man evolving over a great 
amount of time, so that at one point in its history, humanity must have 
appeared in the form of many animals which are existant today.  He goes on, 
however, to establish that they were mankind always, though they had the form
of others, as they posessed the rational soul, though embryonic.  In this 
context, (And another bahai with a library close by can hopefully add the 
appropriate quotes on the subject for me.)  humanity's creation in his or her's
current form was gradual, and could have been happening all over the globe.  
My personal understanding of Adam and Eve in the creation stories which contain
them is that they were the first people (symbolic or not) to first achieve a
glimmer of the external existance of a creative force, or a generative impulse,
and to attribute it to a personified being.  In a sense, they were the first to
realize the spiritual aspect of humanity, as we understand it today.  Likely 
there was a recognition of spirit before, but I think it was quite different.

The last bit, which is my personal take on things is still fairly new to me, 
and so it is not sufficiently thought through to argue effectively, but it's
a neat perspective, so I thought I'd share it.  

Anyways, Arindam, to try to answer in a nutshell, though I do not think that
the Baha'i Scriptures specifically mention multiple or parallel geneses, the
idea is not in contention with the writings, so far as I have seen.

Peace be upon you.


  Christian Edward Gruber
  gruber@solomon.usask.ca

  #####################################################
  #                                                   #
  #  ...man can never attain unto the knowledge of    #
  #  the All-Glorious, can never quaff from the       #
  #  stream of divine knowlede and wisdom, can never  #
  #  enter the abode of immortality, nor partake of   #
  #  the cup of divine nearness and favour unless and #
  #  until he ceases to regard the words and deeds of #
  #  mortal men as a standard for the true            #
  #  understanding and recognition of God and his     #
  #  Prophets.                                        #
  #                   -Baha'u'llah, from Kitab-i-Iqan #
  #                                                   #
  #####################################################
From: bts@unx.sas.com (Brian T. Schellenberger)
Newsgroups: soc.religion.bahai
Subject: Re: Wall Street Journal 8-12-92
Date: 15 Aug 92 19:07:45 GMT
Article-I.D.: qiclab.1992Aug17.224056.17436
Organization: Explosive Space Modulators - R - Us

Hi.

On Wednesday, August 12, there was a font-page article on the Baha'i
Faith in the Wall Street Journal.

The article, on the positive side, presented a simply amazing number of
facts on the Baha'i Faith relative to its length, and even managed to
get in a couple stories of how people came to Faith.

On the negative side (speaking as a Baha'i), the article had a little
bit of a "my, isn't this odd" tone to it.  And there is little quite
as grating to a member of a cause as not having the cause taken
seriously.

But maybe I'm over-sentive; what did any non-Baha'is who are nontheless
familiar with the Faith think of it?

Just curious, and trying to spark some discussion, as this group seems
pretty dead right now.

                                           --Brian T. Schellenberger,
                                             SAS Institute Inc.
                                             Cary, NC   USA
                                             (bts@unx.sas.com)
From: towfiq@clearpoint.com (Mark Towfiq)
Newsgroups: soc.religion.bahai
Subject: Wall Street Journal 8-12-92
Date: 12 Aug 92 15:42:29 GMT
Organization: <none>

On the front page of the Wall Street Journal today there is a lead
article (top of column 4) with the headline "In Doom and Death Baha'i
Faithful See Promise of Peace."
--
Mark Towfiq, towfiq@Clearpoint.COM			      H:+1 617 488 2818

O DWELLERS OF MY PARADISE!  With the hands of loving-kindness I have planted
in the holy garden of paradise the young tree of your love and friendship, and
have watered it with the goodly showers of My tender grace; now that the hour
of its fruiting is come, strive that it may be protected, and be not consumed
with the flame of desire and passion.
		-- Baha'u'llah, Persian Hidden Words, #34
From: vahid@vlsi.ICS.UCI.EDU (Frank Vahid)
Newsgroups: soc.religion.bahai
Subject: Wall Street Journal article
Date: 16 Aug 92 00:50:03 GMT
Article-I.D.: qiclab.1992Aug21.081653.11290
Organization: Explosive Space Modulators - R - Us


Hi.

I enjoyed this article.  I do have one comment and am interested 
to hear what others think about it.

The impression I got from the article is that Baha'is believe 
that the world conditions *have* to hit rock bottom before the
world can live peacefully.  However, my understanding is that
such a scenario is one of two possible paths.  The other path
is mentioned in the following quote from The Promise of World
Peace, a statement by the Universal House of Justice (1987), and
is discussed throughout the Baha'i Writings: 

   "Whether peace is to be reached only after unimaginable horrors
   precipitated by humanity's stubborn clinging to old patterns
   of behaviour, or is to be embraced now by an act of consultative
   will, is the choice before all who inhabit the earth."

Most Baha'i individuals and institutions that I know of work vigorously
to make the latter path the reality.

Frank
Newsgroups: soc.religion.islam
From: bakken@cs.arizona.edu (Dave Bakken)
Newsgroups: soc.religion.islam
Subject: Re: Interest/financing Cars and homes
Date: 12 Aug 92 19:47:14 GMT


In article <9AUG199211460344@iago.caltech.edu> exuasqa@exu.ericsson.se (Asem Qaddoura,xt-dk,1209) writes:

>AsSalam Alaikum Dear Muslim brothers and sisters,

assalamu 'alaikum wa 'ala a'ilatikum, :-} (ana geiru-muslim---ana ahl al-kitab)

>Reba is defined as the percentage or the extra amount that is returned to the 
>loaner or financing institute.  Example, if someone borrows $1000 dollars on 
>the condition to pay $1100 back in one year(regardless if the money is paid 
>all at once or in installments), then the $100 dollars difference is called 
>reba. Now what you do with the money does not justify paying/eating Reba.

Is there any opinion of the ulema regarding the long-term impact of
inflation with regards to what constituted Riba?  I believe that at
the time of Muhammad, long-term inflation was not a concern.  During
this century however, in just five or ten years time the value of
money paid back could be half or less in real terms (and basically
zero in a few periods of hyperinflation, e.g. Weimar Germany and
Argentina in the 1980s).  Would a loan clause that required the
loan to be paid back in the money after accounting for inflation,
say the number of dollars it takes to buy a predefined basket of
goods, be acceptable or would it be considered haram Riba?

Thanks for any clarification on this issue!

--
Dave Bakken                               Internet: bakken@cs.arizona.edu
Dept. of Computer Science; U of Arizona   Voice:    +1 602 621 4089      
Tucson, AZ 85721; USA                     FAX:      +1 602 621 4246
The fact that you're paranoid doesn't prove they're *not* out to get you.
From: ekrem@vlsivie.tuwien.ac.at (Ekrem Saban)
Newsgroups: soc.religion.islam
Subject: Abortion in Islam
Date: 12 Aug 92 19:47:50 GMT
Organization: Technical University of Vienna



Assalaamu ~alaikum,

I am eager to now how the problem of abortion is treated in Islam.
What I need is:

Is it allowed?

If it is, what are the SOURCES of knowledge (clear references to
hadith' or Qur'an, please).

--

_______  __ ________________________________________________ _ ___________
   /|   |    	A. Ekrem SABAN	       / Technische Universitat Wien
  /_|_  |_  ekrem@vlsivie.tuwien.ac.at/Inst.f. Techn. Informatik, HW & VLSI
 /  |     |    "Nu ninda-a ezateni,  /Address: 1040 Wien, Treitlstr. 3/2
/   |__ __|	vadar ma ekuteni"   /Tel:(43-1)58801/8147, Fax:(43-1)569697 
Newsgroups: soc.religion.islam
From: aj@hoqas2.att.com (Ahmad M Jrad)
Subject: Bosnia [protest]
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41    
Originator: Mughal@Romeo.Caltech.Edu (Asim Mughal -Moderator)
Organization: California Institute of Technology
Date: Thu, 13 Aug 1992 06:05:00 GMT



[Postmarked: 10 Aug 92 ]

I am posting this on behalf of a brother.

******************************************************************************
******************************************************************************



                            BOSNIA IS BLEEDING !

                   Protest Against the Holocaust in Bosnia

                               come for the

                              DEMONSTRATION

                      in front of the United Nations

                              TIME: 12 Noon

                       DATE: Friday, August 14, 1992

                  Friday Prayer will be held at 1:00 PM

                              Organized by
                Islamic Circle of North America, New York

                              Supported by
Balkan Muslim Association, Muslim Ummah in America, Majlis Ash-Shura New York,
  Muslim Workers' Activities, Masjid Tauhid - Center for Islamic Development

                 For more information call (718) 658-1199



******************************************************************************
******************************************************************************
From: gwydion@gnu.ai.mit.edu (Basalat Ali Raja)
Newsgroups: soc.religion.islam
Subject: Re: Ramadan. When is it (was it) this year.
Date: 14 Aug 92 15:56:19 GMT
Reply-To: uunet!ucsd!sdsu!hercules.SDSU.EDU!news@ncar.UCAR.EDU
Organization: San Diego State University

In article <26505@life.ai.mit.edu> uunet!sun330!brath@ncar.UCAR.EDU (Mario N. Brathwaite) writes:


>When exactly did (does) the holy month of fasting occur this year? 
>Also, is it factual that the begin of Ramadan advances by 12 days
>every year?

>Peace
>--
>brath@fnma.com

Ramadan starts Feb 23rd 1993 (+- 1 day depending on location).
Yes, Arabic calendar is Lunar calendar which has 355 days per year.

Peace and Prosperity!
  ---==< 110 >==---

Peace and Prosperity!
  ---==< 110 >==---
From: jisrawi@physics.rutgers.edu
Newsgroups: soc.religion.islam
Subject: A call from Bosnia's infants
Date: 12 Aug 92 19:48:29 GMT


        *********************************************************
        *                                                       *
        * Prophet Muhamad, peace and prayers be upon him have   *
        * said: "Me and the sponsor of an orphan are like those *
        * two" and he (PBUH) joined two of his fingers.         *
        *                                                       *
        *********************************************************

The American Muslim Council is coordinating a relief effort for the
infants in Bosnia. It is calling upon people whose conscious is still
intact to sponsor infants for a period of time (one or two years or
whatever it takes) to be later returned to their parents when the
situation settles down in Bosnia. For those willing to join this effort
please call AMC at the number: (202)-789-2262 or FAX the number:
(202)-789-2550.
From: ekrem@vlsivie.tuwien.ac.at (Ekrem Saban)
Newsgroups: soc.religion.islam
Subject: Re: Words Feminists find Demeaning!
Date: 19 Aug 92 18:51:56 GMT
Reply-To: ekrem@vlsivie.tuwien.ac.at (Ekrem Saban)
Organization: Technical University of Vienna
Originator: gwydion@wookumz.gnu.ai.mit.edu

In article <26575@life.ai.mit.edu> exuasqa@exu.ericsson.se (Asem Qaddoura,xt-dk,1209) writes:

	   First, are we talking about incidents that happen once or twice in a year!
	   Second, What does Islam state on such incidents.
	   If it says what you claim above and below please provide a proof. 

   >relatives (to "save their honour"), who are beaten by their husbands

	   The Prophet(SAWS) said in many authentic hadieths what means: the
	   best among you(muslims) are those who treat their families(including
	   wifes) in the best manner/behaviour.  One of the last things He	said
	   before his death was(what means): treat women in a good positive and
	   excelent quality.
	   If a muslim family/husband behave in the manner you mentioned, simply
	   this does not reflect Islam.  Besides,  if you comapre the percentage
	   of such things in our countries to the statistics mentioned above, it
	   is not comparable.

I do not agree with those who blame Islam with the social problems.
However, I agree with those who say that Islam is not giving equal
rights to men and women, believers and unbelievers, etc. So, a "free
and equal" society is not the society aimed by Islam. 

But above, the questioner asks something else than you state in your
reply. He asks for punishment, and you are citing hadith' which say
that it is immoral. Of course, Islam means living according to moral
of Qur'an, but acting against such a moral rule (being harsh against
his women/children) has no punishment in this world in Islam. 

Perhaps, I understood the question wrongly, but if not, the answer is
that the husband is a good Muslim if he acts good against his
women/children. If not, he will not be punished: therefore, being good
is not a law of Sharia (like praying five times a day: if not, you
will be forced in an Islamic state). 



--

_______  __ ________________________________________________ _ ___________
   /|   |    	A. Ekrem SABAN	       / Technische Universitat Wien
  /_|_  |_  ekrem@vlsivie.tuwien.ac.at/Inst.f. Techn. Informatik, HW & VLSI
 /  |     |    "Nu ninda-a ezateni,  /Address: 1040 Wien, Treitlstr. 3/2
/   |__ __|	vadar ma ekuteni"   /Tel:(43-1)58801/8147, Fax:(43-1)569697
From: hyder@madhouse.b11.ingr.com (Hyder Ali)
Newsgroups: soc.religion.islam
Subject: Demonstration in support of Bosnia (in San Jose)
Date: 12 Aug 92 22:51:38 GMT
Reply-To: hyder@madhouse.b11.ingr.com (Hyder Ali)
Originator: gwydion@wookumz.gnu.ai.mit.edu



"Demonstration in support of Bosnians is being held in downtown San Jose,
801 N 1st street, in front of city hall, on Saturday august 15th, 1992, by
the Muslim Community Association. Please be there for show of strength".
(P.S. time: 11:30AM)

--------------------------------------------------------------------------
Hyder Ali 	   |To iterate is human  |hyder@madhouse.b11.ingr.com
Office Automation  |To recurse is divine |alih@infonode.ingr.com 
Intergraph Corp.   |	      -Anonymous |
Hunstville, AL.	   |	                 |Voice:  (205) 730-6106
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: ekrem@vlsivie.tuwien.ac.at (Ekrem Saban)
Newsgroups: soc.religion.islam
Subject: Re: "Halal Meat" or "Jew Kosher Meat"
Date: 12 Aug 92 19:49:37 GMT
Organization: Technical University of Vienna

In article <0m7mb731@csv.warwick.ac.uk> esrmp@warwick.ac.uk (Lami Kaya) writes:


   Dear netters,

   I would like to ask your views on a situation which puzzled
   and disturbed me.

   I have friend here. He seems to be very 'strict' in his diet.
   Such as checking each product if there is any harmful/unlawful
   preservatives and other ingredients (we try to do the same).
   ... and he tries to be a "devout" muslim...
[...]

   He was not buying and eating meat for long time. Despite there are
   many butchers being around, who sell "halal meat". Last night
   when I saw him eating a meal which have mince-meat in it, then the
   discussion started. Then he explained that he found a shop, that sells
   "Jew Kosher(sp?) meat". I hope you got the point...

If they sell Kosher meat, than it must contain a written confirmation
that it was slaughtered by Rabbi such and such and is eatable for a
time of ... So, the point is not a point if it contains this writing.
If not, than how could your friend believe those people selling meat
as kosher?

   Lami

SAVRVB,

--

_______  __ ________________________________________________ _ ___________
   /|   |    	A. Ekrem SABAN	       / Technische Universitat Wien
  /_|_  |_  ekrem@vlsivie.tuwien.ac.at/Inst.f. Techn. Informatik, HW & VLSI
 /  |     |    "Nu ninda-a ezateni,  /Address: 1040 Wien, Treitlstr. 3/2
/   |__ __|	vadar ma ekuteni"   /Tel:(43-1)58801/8147, Fax:(43-1)569697
From: nabeel@sce.carleton.ca (Nabeel Ghuzlaan)
Subject: RE: Interest/financing Cars and homes
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41    
Originator: Mughal@Romeo.Caltech.Edu (Asim Mughal -Moderator)
Organization: California Institute of Technology
Date: Sat, 15 Aug 1992 19:29:00 GMT

[Postmarked: 14 Aug 1992 ]

bakken@cs.arizona.edu (Dave Bakken) writes:

I would define reba as the extra amount (usually of money) gained upon the
lended original amount as a deterministic function of time for no service
administered.

>Is there any opinion of the ulema regarding the long-term impact of
>inflation with regards to what constituted Riba?  I believe that at
>the time of Muhammad, long-term inflation was not a concern.  During
>this century however, in just five or ten years time the value of
>money paid back could be half or less in real terms (and basically
>zero in a few periods of hyperinflation, e.g. Weimar Germany and
>Argentina in the 1980s).  Would a loan clause that required the
>loan to be paid back in the money after accounting for inflation,
>say the number of dollars it takes to buy a predefined basket of
>goods, be acceptable or would it be considered haram Riba?

>Thanks for any clarification on this issue!

   I do not think scholars ever cared about it (but I can be wrong.)
At the time of the Prophet people dealed with money of physical value (Gold
and Silver (the name of money in German and French respectively). When you
borrow something of physical value you return it as it was and usually such
things can retain their values. Money now has no physical value but an ever
shrinking gold cover. However, it is your choice to deal with an unreliable
entity.

   I think it can be OK to deal with any basket of entities as long as 
agreement is made before hand, e.g. you lend someone the equivalent of
2 kg or gold, he returns the equivalent of 2 kg of glod ten years later.
I do not see any problem with using any other basket, but in my opinion
the basket should be of more reliable entities so that no party will feel
cheated later.

   Also in the time of the Prophet, people used to borrow money for their
basic needs, not renovate the house or renew the car and usually for a short
time (e.g. less than five years). The lended money stands a heavenly reward of
18 times the original value (cf. charities' 10 times rewards) and the answer
was because you just lend who is in need but charity can go to people who are
not in that need.

   For doing business there are other kinds of deals; in Islam business is not
done off the back of those who are in need.

**Nabeel
From: uunet!sun330!brath@ncar.UCAR.EDU (Mario N. Brathwaite)
Newsgroups: soc.religion.islam
Subject: Ramadan. When is it (was it) this year.
Date: 12 Aug 92 22:46:37 GMT
Originator: gwydion@wookumz.gnu.ai.mit.edu


When exactly did (does) the holy month of fasting occur this year? 
Also, is it factual that the begin of Ramadan advances by 12 days
every year?

Peace
--
brath@fnma.com
From: Dien Rice <PHS179B@vaxc.cc.monash.edu.au>
Subject: Soc.Religion.Islam: Request from Moderator
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41    
Originator: Mughal@Romeo.Caltech.Edu (Asim Mughal -Moderator)
Organization: California Institute of Technology
Date: Thu, 13 Aug 1992 06:48:00 GMT

[Postmarked: 11 Aug '92 ]

Assalamu alaikum,

# Wailkum Salaam,

> 	Please be reminded, in order to make this group efficient and 
>     to fairly distribute the load on the moderators your cooperation
>     is needed.
>
>        We would like to request the following.
>
>     1. Please do NOT send direct submissions to the moderators' accounts.
>         [Routing software distributes more or less equal number of articles
>         to each of the moderator.Sending direct upsets this balance unfairly]

The routing software on the computer I use does not work.  (When I try to post
to a moderated newsgroup, the mail gets returned to me with an error message.)  
Is there an address that I could post to so that the routing software could do
its stuff?  (I notice that some other moderated newsgroups have this option.)

#
# FROM: SOC.RELIGION.ISLAM AT A GLANCE
#_____________________________________________________________________________
#SOC.RELIGION.ISLAM E-MAIL ADDRESS
#
#                   religion-islam-request@ncar.ucar.edu
#_____________________________________________________________________________  
#
# Regards,
# Asim Mughal
# Moderator, 
# Soc.Religion.Islam
#
Thanks,

Wassalam,  Fred Rice
From: gwydion@gnu.ai.mit.edu (Mercenary Programmer)
Newsgroups: soc.religion.islam
Subject: Dogs & Islam
Date: 21 Aug 92 21:03:31 GMT
Article-I.D.: life.26876
Reply-To: gwydion@gnu.ai.mit.edu.UUCP (Mercenary Programmer)
Organization: Free Software Foundation

Salam alekum.

In some corner of Pakistan, there is a tradition that dogs are haram.
I am interested in knowing the exact Hadith which support this.  Are
there any Hadith which support this, or denouce this?

I would be interested in any information.

Salam Alekum,
Basalat Ali Raja.