HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: J056600@LMSC5.IS.LMSC.LOCKHEED.COM
Newsgroups: ba.politics
Subject: Re: Vote 'Your Name' for office
Date: 14 Sep 92 16:50:29 GMT
Organization: Lockheed Missiles & Space Company, Inc.

In <=7wn#d.phil@netcom.com>, Phil Ronzone writes:

>In article <1992Sep12.231459.13811@morrow.stanford.edu> GA.JRG@forsythe.stanfor
\>    >In article <1992Sep11.232859.24728@leland.Stanford.EDU>,
>    >miballar@leland.Stanford.EDU (Michael Ballard) writes:
>    >>Instead of not voting, maybe another more forceful statement
>    >>would be to write in one's own name for this or that office.
>    >>
>    >That won't do any good unless you've filled as a registered
>    >write-in. Only the votes of candidates know to the Secretary
>    >of State prior to the election are actually tabulated.
>    >Writing in anyone else has the same impact as not voting.

>That's what I thought. Didn't post it because I wasn't sure. And, wasn't this
>a somewhat recent change too (throwing away the write-ins)?

>So, even if I convinced 51% of the voters to write me so I could start
>dismantling the State (at least in CA), it would be ineffective.

Yes.  In rare bipartisan spirit, state governments have enacted election laws
which make third-party/independent challenges ineffectual.  Only if you are
acknowledged by a Major Party (tm), or if you have $3 billion like Ross Perot,
can you expect to be taken seriously in November.

I know how you feel about coercive and undemocratic laws...I have to agree with
you on this one.

Tim Irvin   j056600@lmsc5.is.lmsc.lockheec.com
****************************************************************************
"In a free government the security for civil rights must be the same as that
 for religious rights." -- James Madison, Federalist #51
Newsgroups: ba.politics,ca.politics
From: phil@netcom.com (Phil Ronzone)
Subject: Re: Picking and Choosing our References
Date: Fri, 11 Sep 92 16:01:25 GMT
Organization: Generally in favor of, but mostly random.

In article <BuEL52.KJI@queernet.org> rogerk@QueerNet.ORG (Roger B.A. Klorese) writes:
    >In article <j9tn07=.phil@netcom.com>, phil@netcom.com (Phil
    >Ronzone) writes:
    >>>If you think the sexual orientation of the owners of the
    >>>places you patronize is important, why, that's your right.
    >>>Thank you for being so obvious about it. Clayton is so right
    >>>about this.
    >>>
    >>>For me, I don't give a shit about the sexual orientation of
    >>>the owners(s) of the places I patronize.
    >>>
    >What does *knowing* about it have to do with *caring* about
    >it?

Roger, let us be HONEST about this, O.K.? Of course, there is no
mandatory conclusion to be drawn from the relationship of knowing
and caring.

But come on now -- since stores do NOT, to my knowledge, post signs
that state the sexual preferences (and skin color and sex and ...) of
the owners (for the most part), then some degree of exertion must
be made to find out, and even more exertion to post this knowledge
to the net.

I.e., it IS something that obviously the poster cared about.

BTW -- unless you wish to state that stores in the Castro DO post
sexual orientation of owners info (like "Gay Owned & Operated"), in which
case the whole set of points of FOA and sexual orientation I've been
making are correct.


-- 
phil@netcom.com (Phil Ronzone)

"I can't get no satisfaction ...", M. Jagger
"Yeah, right, tell me another one Mick.", P. Ronzone

These opinions are MINE, and you can't have 'em!  (But I'll rent 'em cheap ...)
From: cramer@optilink.UUCP (Clayton Cramer)
Newsgroups: ba.politics
Subject: Re: Who IS Clyaton Cramer?
Date: 11 Sep 92 16:44:17 GMT
Organization: Optilink Corporation, Petaluma, CA

In article <1992Sep10.144207.13106@fico.uucp>, kmd@fico.uucp writes:
> In article <1992Sep9.203208.18002@tcsi.com> swami@tcs.com (Venkates Swaminathan) writes:
# #I'm new to this newsgroup, so maybe this is a silly question.
# #
# #Who is Clayton Cramer, and why are his views on gays and lesbians the subject of
# #so much of the debate on ba. politics? Is he someone really important or
# #influential?
# #
# #
# #Swami
# 
# Clayton Cramer is a nondescript nero engineer at DSC Optilink. Having had the 
# mis fortune to work with him, not only ther, but at HDTS,I am very well  

Who is KMD?  If he worked here, he must have been one of the people
that couldn't cut it in a demanding environment.

# By the way Mr.Cramer-if you want to feel safe and surrounded by those who think
# as you do, why don't you start/join a group of similiar thinkers? Imagine-you
# could have your own parades-headed off by The Herd O' Nerds-but you've got to
# have your broken glasses held together by tape to join!!!!!
# Cheers!

I've never had taped glasses, which is one of the signs that this
person KMD is a liar.
-- 
Clayton E. Cramer {uunet,pyramid}!optilink!cramer  My opinions, all mine!
Alcohol prohibition didn't work; drug prohibition doesn't work; gun
prohibition won't work.
From: phil@netcom.com (Phil Ronzone)
Subject: Re: Brian Kane claims pedophilia != child molestation
Date: Wed, 16 Sep 92 01:39:33 GMT
Organization: Generally in favor of, but mostly random.

In article <96032@bu.edu> kane@buast7.bu.edu (Hot Young Star) writes:
    >But when is any sexual orientation which realizes itself in
    >any ***MUTUALLY INFORMED CONSENTING ADULT SEXUAL ACTIONS (IN
    >PRIVATE)*** going to be a problem in a job?
    >
    >Let's use some common sense, for God's sake.

Hmm, why the emphasis on "private"? Are you de facto admitting that there
are some things which are NOT socially acceptable, even if legal, and thus
should be hidden if one wants to keep (or get) your job, and conversely
are something to be fired for?



-- 
phil@netcom.com (Phil Ronzone)

"I can't get no satisfaction ...", M. Jagger
"Yeah, right, tell me another one Mick.", P. Ronzone

These opinions are MINE, and you can't have 'em!  (But I'll rent 'em cheap ...)
From: dauber@sgi.com (Jeff Dauber)
Newsgroups: ba.politics
Subject: Re: Who IS Clyaton Cramer?
Date: 10 Sep 92 15:47:16 GMT
Organization: Silicon Graphics, Inc.

In article <l7sn25f.phil@netcom.com> phil@netcom.com (Phil Ronzone) writes:

>Naw -- he's just someone who thinks and posts rational thoughts mostly.

As long as Clayton stays away from the topic of homosexuality and
or child sexuality, I would have to agree with this statement.

>So he's a real minority on this group and should be ignored.

Oh please....

>After all, ignore the unpleasant truth and it will just go away.

Why doesn't Clayton do this?



FWA
Newsgroups: ba.politics,talk.politics.theory
From: phil@netcom.com (Phil Ronzone)
Subject: Re: Human Rights...
Date: Sun, 06 Sep 92 20:01:05 GMT
Organization: Generally in favor of, but mostly random.

In article <1992Sep5.003659.9958@clipper.ingr.com> ald@clipper.ingr.com (Al Date) writes:
>In article <=vln5!#.phil@netcom.com> phil@netcom.com (Phil Ronzone) writes:
    >>You assert "human rights are a societal construct". I assert
    >>that human rights are an absolute and exist by the virtue
    >>that man exists.
    >>
    >I can show that human rights are cultural. What evidence is
    >there that they are transcendent?
    >...
    >I think it is fairly obvious that *legal* rights are a
    >societal construct; after all, if you are a woman living in
    >Iran you will have quite a different set of rights than a
    >woman living in Burbank. The question really is: Is there a
    >higher law than the written law, and if there is, what does
    >it consist of?

In short, I accept Ayn Rand's reasoning. Oversimplified (essentials are
left out), it is immoral to expect/force/try to have a living organism
act other than how it has been evolved to survive.

I.e., it is immoral to try to force a lion NOT to hunt, or a herbivore to
run from a predator.

Man's survival is based on thinking, and on applying rationality to
the process of survival and the Pursuit Of Happiness.


Which is why, for example, I get so steamed over PC. If I can not even raise
the question of "Isn't Affirmative Action racism" with getting hit with
the Stalinist technique of "no bad questions allowed", then my essential
process of survival, rational thought, is under attack (i.e., don't think,
just believe).

Since in a rational mode, my only outcome from rational thought is non-coercive
mutually voluntary behaviour, any coercion interferes with either my thinking
or the result of my rational thinking and hence is immoral because I am
being asked to NOT survive as per the only way I was evolved to survive.

Very very grossly oversimplified, but perhaps enough to give you a picture.

Probably any more should be sent to alt.objectivism, however, I'd rather
defend clayton in soc.motss than to get into THAT set of flame wars.

.
(sorry clayton :-) )

-- 
phil@netcom.com (Phil Ronzone)

"I can't get no satisfaction ...", M. Jagger
"Yeah, right, tell me another one Mick.", P. Ronzone

These opinions are MINE, and you can't have 'em!  (But I'll rent 'em cheap ...)
Newsgroups: ba.politics
From: loren@netcom.com (Loren Hart)
Subject: Re: Recall Gov. Pete Wilson
Date: Wed, 09 Sep 92 01:56:22 GMT
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services  (408 241-9760 guest) 


OOPS!  I got the dates glitched on the first post.  Here is a corrected post.


--------------------------------- cut here ---------------------------------


		BITE 'EM BACK
	Organization Meeting to Recall:

	    Governor Pete Wilson
	Assembly Speaker Willie Brown
    Senate President Pro Tem David Roberti

    Come to 485 Auzerais, San Jose
	Tuesday    9-8-92  at 7:00 pm
	Wednesday  9-9-92  at 7:00 pm
	Thursday   9-10-92 at 7:00 pm
	Friday     9-11-92 at 7:00 pm


The meeting will be in a warehouse behind the Buffalo Soldier office.
Parking is limited so either get there early or park on the street or
in the OSH parking lot two blocks away.


		 Josefa  Gifford
       Royal |      |      |
    -----+---+------+------+----- San Carlos
 ^    OSH|   |      |      | 
 |	 |   |      | 485  | 
 N  -----+---+---+--+------+----- Auzerais
 |	     |   |  |      |
 ^  =========|=================== 280
	     |
	 Bird Ave
-- 
=============================================================================
Mr Loren L. Hart                                       The Ada Ace Group, Inc
loren@netcom.com                                       P.O. Box 36195
				                       San Jose, CA  95158
From: ts@cup.portal.com (Tim W Smith)
Newsgroups: ba.politics
Subject: Re: HERSCHENSOHN: Flat Rate Tax (Q&A)
Date: Sun, 13 Sep 92 10:59:28 PDT
Organization: The Portal System (TM)
  <0wrnc+h.loren@netcom.com> <1992Sep9.200449.14047@oracle.us.oracle.com>
  <26222@dog.ee.lbl.gov> <athos-110992102904@athos.apple.com>

> Income, to me, is money you *earn*.  If my dad leaves me the money he saved
> up his entire life, I find it OBSCENE that the US Government sees fit to
> take a chunk of it.  My dad EARNED it, PAID taxes on it and has now given
> it to me.  Why tax it again?
> 
> --
> Rick Eames
> athos@apple.com

Well, for that matter, why should they tax your income?  Apple PAID taxes
when they EARNED it, and then they give it to you.  Why tax it again?

--Tim Smith
From: falk@peregrine.Sun.COM (Ed Falk)
Newsgroups: ba.politics
Subject: Re: Recall Gov. Pete Wilson
Date: 8 Sep 92 05:25:12 GMT
Organization: Sun Microsystems, Mt. View, Ca.
NNTP-Posting-Host: peregrine

In article <athos-070992130625@kip2-12.apple.com> athos@apple.com (Rick Eames) writes:
>
>I will pay a TON of money to send my kids to schools where the *majority*
>of the money goes to the students and NOT administrators making $90,000 a
>year.  We are top heavy with administrators.  I would also like to see the
>following:
>
>1) Pay teachers more.
	:

Here's an idea:  let's have an initiative that makes a new law that
says that no administrator can make more money than a teacher with
the same # of years experience.

		-ed falk, sun microsystems
		 sun!falk, falk@sun.com
	"Towards the end, the smell of their air began to change"
From: athos@apple.com (Rick Eames)
Newsgroups: ba.politics
Subject: Re: HERSCHENSOHN: Flat Rate Tax (Q&A)
Date: 11 Sep 92 17:28:21 GMT
Followup-To: ba.politics,ca.politics
Organization: Apple Computer, Inc.

In article <26222@dog.ee.lbl.gov>, mike@inti.lbl.gov (Michael Helm) wrote:

> >As for the rest, it really isn't clear to me at all why income from
> >savings accounts and capital gains should be taxed.  As for the estate
> >tax, don't you think it is a bit unreasonable to even tax death?
> 
> Well, why not?  You can't take it with you, as far as I know.
> Income is income -- why do we include some & not others from
> taxation, if we are going to tax at all?  

Income, to me, is money you *earn*.  If my dad leaves me the money he saved
up his entire life, I find it OBSCENE that the US Government sees fit to
take a chunk of it.  My dad EARNED it, PAID taxes on it and has now given
it to me.  Why tax it again?

--
Rick Eames
athos@apple.com
My opinions are my own, thank you very much!
HERSCHENSOHN for US Senate.  Just say "No" to 6 years of Boxer!
From: dauber@sgi.com (Jeff Dauber)
Subject: SF's disasters....
Organization: Silicon Graphics, Inc.
Date: Tue, 15 Sep 1992 23:06:20 GMT


I am appalled with the mayor of SF....

He has just gutted the health system in San Francisco.
The budget has been reduced by $24 million dollars,
$10 million of which was removed from the mental health
area.  However, when asked what the most important thing
he is working on, he responds "The Giants".  

Now, correct me if I am wrong, but aren't hospitals more
important than a damn baseball team?

Also, on the proposed SF budget, why is it that most of the
budget cuts are coming from medicine, while almost none
are coming from other departments such as the police dept?


Jeff
-FWA

Newsgroups: ba.politics
From: wayne@ultra.com (Wayne Hathaway)
Subject: Re: HERSCHENSOHN: Flat Rate Tax (Q&A)
Reply-To: wayne@ultra.com (Wayne Hathaway)
Organization: Ultra Network Technologies
Date: Mon, 14 Sep 92 20:52:44 GMT

> Anyway, the point Tim was making is that life is just one big tax cycle.

I know of nothing that illustrates this absurd truth more than
"California Redemption Value" (CRV) on drink containers:

    When you buy the container you not only pay the CRV (the
    "deposit"), you also pay SALES TAX on the CRV.

    When you return the container you get the CRV (your own
    "deposit") back (but not the sales tax, of course) -- but
    this is now treated as income and you are expected to pay
    INCOME TAX on it! 

And of course lets not forget that in the meantime the state is
collecting INTEREST on the CRV -- they get the interest on your money
that they charge you sales tax to deposit and income tax to withdraw!

I wonder who the brilliant lawmaker was who dreamed up THIS little
scheme!  And I wonder how long it'll be before someone tries to apply
this to SAVINGS ACCOUNTS!!  (And wonders why the economy falls further
into the dumper!)

    Wayne Hathaway               domain: wayne@Ultra.COM
    Ultra Network Technologies     uucp: ...!ames!ultra!wayne
    101 Daggett Drive             phone: 408-922-0100 x132
    San Jose, CA 95134              FAX: 408-433-9287
From: jav@rhiannon.sitka.sun.com (Joyce Vanderpoorten)
Newsgroups: ba.politics
Subject: Oakland County Courthouse Strike
Date: 8 Sep 92 21:28:04 GMT
Reply-To: jav@rhiannon.sitka.sun.com
Organization: Sun Microsystems, Inc.
NNTP-Posting-Host: rhiannon.sitka.sun.com


Can someone tell me why there are people in the mornings (M-F) in front
of Oakland's Courthouse holding signs about child molestation and 
specific Judges?  Last week there were just a couple, this morning there
were about half a dozen.
Newsgroups: ba.politics
From: donb@igor.tamri.com (Don Baldwin)
Subject: Re: Activist shot at Berkeley Chancellor's home
Organization: TOSHIBA America MRI, South San Francisco, CA
Date: Thu, 10 Sep 92 00:54:55 GMT

In article <1992Sep4.032810.4849@odin.corp.sgi.com> zursch@whizkid.wpd.sgi.com
(Super-User) writes:
>>Jeff, after reading your, ahem, interesting view of the matter, I feel
>>obliged to point out how really !@#!@# out of touch with reality you are.
>>I mean, cripes! Get a clue!
>
>I don't think you've read closely enough. Jeff is not complaining so much 
>that, having fallen down and faced with a machete-swinging maniac, the
>cop was way out of line shooting her, but that the mistake was to send 
>the cop in alone in the first place, thus guaranteeing the use of deadly force
>would become necessary. Once the cop was alone in the house
>with her, (or at least, by himself...there may have been other cops in the
>house) he had no real choice but to shoot to kill.  I said before that if I
>was confronted by someone with a knife in my home and I had a gun, you 
>bet I'd put four slugs into them.....without hesitation. 
>
>But if I was outside the house, with plenty of buddies, I wouldn't go in 
>alone. Actually, I probably wouldn't go in at all. Because doing so is
>inviting a dangerous situation. 

I guess it depends on the overall scenario.  If the cop was sent in
when the people who lived there were all safely outside, I agree that
whoever was in charge screwed things up:  better to fill the house with
tear gas and flush Rosebud out, that way she might still be alive.

However, I do think that she had to be removed from the house by SOME
means.  And, while the cop had no choice but to shoot in self defense,
she DID have the choice not to rush him with a machete.

Anyone know more details?

   don
From: cramer@optilink.UUCP (Clayton Cramer)
Newsgroups: ba.politics
Subject: Re: Who IS Clyaton Cramer?
Date: 15 Sep 92 22:31:22 GMT
Organization: Optilink Corporation, Petaluma, CA

In article <1325600017@igc.apc.org>, caufenkamp@igc.apc.org (Craig Aufenkamp) writes:
# ## #I'm new to this newsgroup, so maybe this is a silly question.
# ## #
# ## #Who is Clayton Cramer, and why are his views on gays and
# ## #lesbians the subjecf
# ## #so much of the debate on ba. politics? Is he someone really 
# ## #important or influential?
# ## #
# ## #
# ## #Swami
# ##
# ## Clayton Cramer is a nondescript nero engineer at DSC Optilink. 
# ## Having had themis fortune to work with him, not only ther, but
# ## at HDTS,I am very well
# 
# #Who is KMD?  If he worked here, he must have been one of the people
# #that couldn't cut it in a demanding environment.
# 
# Well I can tell you that *she* cuts it very well in her present 
# environment; we both work at the same company.  She once described 
# you to me as a nerdy guy who taped his glasses together instead of 
# buying new frames, craved attention, and liked guns.  Personally I

# --# caufenkamp@igc.org

She is either confusing me with someone else, or she is lying.
I have NEVER taped my glasses together.
-- 
Clayton E. Cramer {uunet,pyramid}!optilink!cramer  My opinions, all mine!
There can be no peace as long as AB 2601 lives.
From: caufenkamp@igc.apc.org (Craig Aufenkamp)
Newsgroups: ba.politics
Subject: Re: Who IS Clyaton Cramer?
Date: 15 Sep 92 02:29:00 GMT
Nf-ID: #R:1992Sep9.203208.18002@tcsi.com:-1739179120:cdp:1325600017:000:1441
Nf-From: cdp.UUCP!caufenkamp    Sep 14 19:29:00 1992


## #I'm new to this newsgroup, so maybe this is a silly question.
## #
## #Who is Clayton Cramer, and why are his views on gays and
## #lesbians the subjecf
## #so much of the debate on ba. politics? Is he someone really 
## #important or influential?
## #
## #
## #Swami
##
## Clayton Cramer is a nondescript nero engineer at DSC Optilink. 
## Having had themis fortune to work with him, not only ther, but
## at HDTS,I am very well

#Who is KMD?  If he worked here, he must have been one of the people
#that couldn't cut it in a demanding environment.

Well I can tell you that *she* cuts it very well in her present 
environment; we both work at the same company.  She once described 
you to me as a nerdy guy who taped his glasses together instead of 
buying new frames, craved attention, and liked guns.  Personally I
think you do a good job at keeping this newsgroup busy and I've 
enjoyed reading your posts.

## By the way Mr.Cramer-if you want to feel safe and surrounded by
## those who thik as you do, why don't you start/join a group of 
## similiar thinkers? Imagine-you could have your own parades-headed 
## off by The Herd O' Nerds-but you've got to have your broken glasses
## held together by tape to join!!!!!
## Cheers!

#I've never had taped glasses, which is one of the signs that this
#person KMD is a liar.

Do you crave attention or like guns?  What are the other signs?

__>_o
  >  crane

--> caufenkamp@igc.org
Newsgroups: ba.politics,talk.politics.misc
From: phil@netcom.com (Phil Ronzone)
Subject: Re: The Harrassing Phone Calls Can Stop NOW!
Date: Fri, 11 Sep 92 01:38:08 GMT
Organization: Generally in favor of, but mostly random.

In article <2687@uswnvg.uswnvg.com> dfpedro@nv2.uswnvg.com (Donn F. Pedro) writes:
    >"For though I walk through the valley of S&M queers, I will
    >fear no evil, for my carry permit, my rod, and my 'several K'
    >of cullings -- they comfort me"

But if you droppeth your rod, DON'T bendeth over to pick it up. And perchance
the smell of burning leather wafts unto thine nostrils, runneth like
hell and looketh not back ...

Couldn't resist ...



-- 
phil@netcom.com (Phil Ronzone)

"I can't get no satisfaction ...", M. Jagger
"Yeah, right, tell me another one Mick.", P. Ronzone

These opinions are MINE, and you can't have 'em!  (But I'll rent 'em cheap ...)
Newsgroups: ba.jobs.misc
From: aldridge@netcom.com (Jacquelyn Aldridge)
Subject: Re: Bay Area Recruiters
Date: Fri, 11 Sep 92 04:38:41 GMT
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services  (408 241-9760 guest) 


	To add to Mary S. Morris's list of recruiters in the area. 

There is a widely advertised contract agencies' bullletin board called DICE.


It's number is (408) 727-3423.

	About 20+ consultant contract firms list about 500+ contract
positions on this board..
A
A
 
Xref: sparky ba.jobs.misc:381 misc.jobs.misc:6449 sci.engr.biomed:518
From: pagakis@eecs.ucdavis.edu (Stamatis)
Newsgroups: ba.jobs.misc,misc.jobs.misc,sci.engr.biomed
Subject: Looking for Recruitment angencies for  Bioengineers in England
Keywords: Image processing, Bioengineering
Date: 11 Sep 92 05:04:43 GMT
Followup-To: ba.jobs.misc
Organization: U.C. Davis - Department of Electrical Engineering and Computer Science
Originator: pagakis@madrone.eecs.ucdavis.edu

I will have soon (Dec 92) a PhD in Bioengineering with specialization
in fluorescence microscopy, Image Processing and 2-D and 3-D image
visualization.

I am looking for a Job in Europe and preferably in England.  Does
anybody know any contacts over there (Headhunters, recruiting agancies
interesting companies?)

Thanks



-- 
**********************************************************************
Stamatis Pagakis
Biomedical Engineering
UC Davis