From: Roger_Nordin@atb.bbs.bad.se (Roger Nordin)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.hardware
Subject: Is it silly to buy a
Date: 12 Oct 92 06:12:23 GMT
Reply-To: Roger_Nordin@atb.bbs.bad.se (Roger Nordin)
Organization: ANet Test Bench, Karlstad, Sweden
OD-Comment-To: Internet_Gateway

> Ah, but you can use a Zorro-II SCSI controller. $160
> (Provided of course someone fixes the DMA problems....)

I don't know why you say that -- I cleary mentioned that it was possible to 
add a third party SCSI controller. I also clearly mentioned it will waste a 
lot of the bus bandwidth, as only Zorro II host adaptors are available at the 
present time, and that it will consume one of the precious Zorro III slots in 
the A4000.

> Why? Other solutions have been posted. (Open on workbench, altering the
> database, patching said programs,

True. However, the Double-PAL offers 27000+ pixels less than the Hires/Lace/
Overscan screen. What does the promotion features do about these missing 
pixels, if an application requests a full hires/lace/overscan screen?

Also, for video work, you still cannot have a flickerfixed monitor at the same 
time while you output video. Btw, can anyone comment on Marc's statement that 
you'll still need an 15KHz monitor with promoted screens?! That would be a 
serious problem, IMHO, as most monitors doesn't sync down to those low 
frequencies.

> Ah! But we're still comparing apples and oranges. Add an AGA card to your
> A3000 and see how many programs will support that natively.

I don't need AGA graphics. Gee, I stated this *very* clearly. If you need AGA 
graphics, you have to go with the A4000. But if you don't, well...

> And lets not forget the IDE drive.

Sorry, let us FORGET the IDE/AT drive, please!

> And the HD floppy,

Strange -- My A3000 has a high density floppy drive!

> and the 24-bit extended video slot.

True, although no expansions use it currently. It will take a while until the 
market grows big enough for it.

> we seem to be running out of slots on the
> other side of the equation just as rapidly...

No, it does not. The IDE/AT stuff is worthless, more or less. So far, I've 
never seen a Zorro bus connected floppy drive, so why you argue about that is 
a complete mystery. The video slot has, again, nothing to do with the Zorro 
bus, except for the fact that any card that plugs into it will take up one 
Zorro slot, on both machines. What slots were we running out of, did you say?

> No it's not. If you have an EXISTING A3000 it's cheaper.

Sorry, wrong. A3000/040 goes for about $2499 including Scala MultiMedia. 
Including a flickerfixer. Including a SCSI host adapter. Not including AGA 
graphics. Also, it permits you to buy the A3000 at $1499 first, then later add 
the '040 card, in case you just happen to not have $2499 lying around. With 
the A4000, as a comparsion, you have to invest the entire cost at once, 
however.

> I have a BEEF with this. If you're using your Amiga as a Video workstation,
> the added ability to do 2000fps is nothing to sneeze at.

Certainly not. However, this figure comes from the double buffering screen 
routines in Release3, which are indeed very fast. But it doesn't need AGA chip 
bandwidth to go that fast. To shift from one buffer to another on the Amiga, 
you just twidde a few words on Lisa or Denise, and there you go. Twiddling a 
few bytes does not take any more notiable time with ECS chips. This is btw 
what makes virtual screens work so brutally fast on the Amiga, as compared to 
the hacks for the Mac that has to move the entire screen data in order to 
scroll the screen. The A3000 runs Release3 just fine.

> Please... you're giving MB wet dreams....

:)

> This annoys me as well, and to have an 8MB chip ram selector on the
> motherboard is EXCRUTIATINGLY painful. Annoying. Teasing. This is
> probably the ONLY reason I'd wait for a machine to take care of that.

Yes. Unlike MB, I am not recommending people to stay away from the A4000. I am 
however recommending people to wait for the A4000 specifications to be 
finished off, because I except there will be an 8Mb / SCSI model out in the 
close future. We have already seen reports about 8Mb beeing promised, more or 
less. But of course there's people that cannot stay cool and always have to 
jump for the "latest and hottest". ;)

> The SCSI host adapter doesn't bother me.

But it does annoy me. Where do I put my two SCSI harddisks in my A3000? My 
tape stremer? A workstation like the A4000 *needs* a SCSI host adaptor, IMNSHO.

> People were SCREAMING for rush, and now you chastise C= for doing it.
> Shame on you people.

There's always pressure on a company when they announce there's something new 
and hot coming up. They have to learn to stay cool. But of course, I do 
realise that it was high time for a new Amiga model with improved graphics, 
and that C= were anxious to get the machine out ASAP. A pity the marketing 
guys got too much to say about the design.

                        _       .    __
    Roger Nordin     _ //      /!Net /est Bench
 2:203/602.0@fidonet \X/  Internet: Roger_Nordin@bad.se

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