HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: markm@ogicse.ogi.edu (Mark Morrissey)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: Twice Fucked (Colorado gays)
Date: 9 Nov 92 23:40:38 GMT
Article-I.D.: ogicse.45542
Organization: Oregon Graduate Institute (formerly OGC), Beaverton, OR

In article <1992Nov9.191138.16415@netcom.com> solovay@netcom.com (Andrew M. Solovay) writes:
>
>But... but... he was right, wasn't he? CO-2 isn't nearly as bad
>as OR-9. OR-9 would have mandated state homophobia, and made it
>required curriculum in state-run schools. CO-2 just struck down
>antidiscrimination laws. CO-2 is bad, but OR-9 would have been
>much worse.

Fully automatic weapons are much more dangerous and lethal than semi
automatic weapons.  However, both are effective killing devices.

Let's see where CO-2 and OR-9 differ.  Both contain the brilliant idea
that it sure would be neat to encourage discrimination by making it
illegal to do anything about it.  Oh yes, OR-9 goes on to say "and now
we get to rub their noses in it."  Big difference.

If anyone truly believes that there is all that much difference between
the two initiatives, I have some property 100 miles west of Astoria,
Oregon which you should buy sight-unseen.  The Lonster has announced that
the equivalent of CO-2 with a revised "discourage homosexuality" clause 
will make an appearance on the 1994 ballot.

OR-9 was what the Right (I can never remember if the 'sic' comes before
or after that) was hoping for.  CO-2 was what they were willing to
settle for.  Either way, we lose and lose big.  And as a recent post
indicates, CO-2 is already killing people.

It's a sick world when I can get into a discussion with a supposedly
religious person and ask "would you prefer that I killed myself rather
than be gay in your world?" and get back a sincere "yes."

If being homosexual means that I am sick, I don't want to hear
about the cure.

--mark
--
Mark Morrissey           One Hatred to rule them all.  One Hatred to find them.
markm@cse.ogi.edu        One Hatred to bring them all and in the darkness bind
                         them.  In the land of Bigotry where the Shadows lie.
From: Minotaur@cup.portal.com (A Frank Swilling)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: What Gay Sex (was Re: How Many Homosexuals?)
Date: Fri, 13 Nov 92 21:47:03 PST
Organization: The Portal System (TM)
  <1992Nov13.054127.17353@macc.wisc.edu>

Jess Anderson takes my punchline between his teeth and rips
the life from its tender young bones:

>In article <69410@cup.portal.com> Minotaur@cup.portal.com (A
>Frank Swilling) writes:

>>Brian Kane uncovers the secrets lives of straight boys:

>>>The fact remains that 30% of the men reported being passive
>>>in anal intercourse at least once, but only 4% of the men
>>>reported engaging in gay sex at least once.

>>>Doesn't this strike anyone as just a wee bit strange?

>>It's not so strange when you realize those boys answering
>>the survey didn't consider fisting to be "gay" sex.

>Is it, really?  Is fisting gay sex?

>Jess Anderson

Eh?  Didn't I just say it ain't necessarily so?  What, you
assumed those boys were fisting each other?  Misogynist pig,
their leather-clad mistresses were making them *wish* they
only had a fat faggot weenie up their butts.  Yes indeed, it's
hard to be anything *but* passive when your mistress has you
hog-tied over an English saddle ass to the ceiling, mirrors
angled so that you can see her slathering her spanking hand
with K-Y.  If only you didn't have that gag in your mouth,
you'd plead with her to at least trim an inch or two off her
nails; but it's probably just as well, because knowing what
she thinks of cowardice, she'd be more likely to *sharpen*
them if she saw the fear in your eyes.  *Gay* sex?  Ha!  Next
time someone calls you up for a sex survey, you'll have an
earful to tell them about how UNgay sex can be.

Frank
Minotaur@cup.portal.com
Newsgroups: soc.motss,alt.politics.homosexuality,co.politics
From: rjwill6@PacBell.COM (Rod Williams)
Subject: Re: Colorado Amendment 2: The First Fatality
Organization: Pacific * Bell, San Francisco
Date: Thu, 12 Nov 1992 23:30:39 GMT

> gary@colossus.cgd.ucar.edu (Gary Strand) writes:
>
>  My ideal world would contain no such protections for anyone. If you want to
>  fire me because I'm white, male, and het then that's your right. If I want
>  to fire you because you're female, gay, bi, a poor dresser, whatever, then
>  that should be my right.

But in the *real* world, if you'll pardon me for dragging you
back into it, white het males are never discriminated against
for being white het males, while people who differ in one or
more of those three categories (and several others) frequently
*are* fired, or ignored, or harassed, or denied housing and
public accommodations merely on account of that difference.

Colorado's Amendment 2, by denying any recourse, explicitly
permits, if not endorses, such discrimination against gay men,
lesbians and bisexuals.
-- 
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
rod williams -=- pacific bell -=- san ramon, ca -=- rjwill6@pacbell.com
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
From: mattm@apple.com (Matthew Melmon)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: Mouse Balls
Date: 11 Nov 92 00:33:25 GMT
Followup-To: soc.motss
Organization: Apple Computer, Inc.

In article <45619@ogicse.ogi.edu>, markm@ogicse.ogi.edu (Mark Morrissey)
wrote:

> I can think of lots of other things which Ellen is, but I think
> that these two differences between you suffice for now.


Eeehhhh, stand on your head and piss into your mouth, Morrissey.
I'm so very sorry for offending the poor little dear, but she
came out to play first - over something pretty damn inoffensive.
If her wit was so bursting with energy it just *had* to respond
to something, I'd think there would have been plenty of available
opportunities for taking a somewhat more substantive stand.

No matter.  So now I have *another* fan...

*X*
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: mritchie@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (Michael S Ritchie)
Subject: Joy of Gay Sex
Organization: The Ohio State University
Distribution: usa
Date: Thu, 12 Nov 1992 01:43:44 GMT

I beg your indulgence if this has already been discussed hidden
away in one thread or another, but the classic reference book
_The Joy of Gay Sex_ is being reissued, apparently completely
revised "for the 90s," as they are wont to say in ad copy.  It
will be hardcover only, $30.00--I assume a paperback release will
follow in about a year. The original, which has been out of
print, is wonderful, well written (an original co-author was
Edmund White) with graphic illustrations in the style of Comfort's
_Joy of Sex_.  Release date is December, so its probably out
there right now, or tomorrow!

--Michael
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: rhayden@oracle.com (Ronald Hayden)
Subject: Re: Clinton and the Military Ban (was Re: Gay Sailor Reinstated)
Organization: Oracle Corporation, Belmont, Ca.
	<1992Nov11.181717.19012@draco.macsch.com>
	<1992Nov11.220327.15209@spdcc.com> <1992Nov12.165919.27406@netcom.com>
	<1992Nov12.180032.23604@linus.mitre.org>
Date: Sat, 14 Nov 1992 00:54:39 GMT
X-Disclaimer: This message was written by an unauthenticated user
              at Oracle Corporation.  The opinions expressed are those
              of the user and not necessarily those of Oracle.

In article <1992Nov12.180032.23604@linus.mitre.org> jclander@texas.mitre.org (Julian C. Lander) writes:

   They caught it, they caught it.  It's the lead story (right-hand top of
   front page) of today's (12 November 1992) New York Times.  I take it
   this means that he really does mean it; it would not have been played
   up so much if he didn't.  There is some mealy-mouthed language about
   working with the military on this, but the Times reported thinks that 
   the ban will not be around long.

I wouldn't characterize it as "mealy-mouthed".  When later asked if
his statement about working even with people who disagree to put this
in place meant that he might change his mind, he said (paraphrasing),
"The decision has been made.  I'm not going to discuss the decision
with them.  I'm going to discuss how to implement it."

He's being careful to include everyone in the process, even in areas
where they lost.  This, to my mind, is the sign of someone truly
building bridges.  Keep in mind that Clinton won in part due to
support of people like Admiral Crowell.  Admiral Crowell is against
this.  Clinton has to show that he isn't just turning his back on the
"Clinton Republicans", even when he implements a policy they don't like.
--

  - Ronald Hayden

    ----------------------------------------------------------------
   | Documentation Manager, Oracle Toolkit Group                    |
   | Co-chair of Oracle Lambda, Oracle's Gay/Lesbian/Bisexual group |
   | Writer, magician, and various other things                     |
    ----------------------------------------------------------------
From: owen@autodesk.com (D. Owen Rowley)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: Okay, what makes a Gay or Lesbian turn Republican?
Date: 10 Nov 92 22:11:08 GMT

In article <1992Nov9.190105.25251@gordian.com>, mike@gordian.com (Michael A. Thomas) writes:
>   I said that there are contradictions within the(republican)  party, right?
> This wing of the party, exemplified by the Goldwater republicans,
> are very much out of favor these days though.

If only the fascist minded radical religious right were like 
Barry Goldwater. Goldwaters brand of conservatism is not refelected
in these people, it is twisted and misused.

Barry Goldwater was nominated by his party in 1964 at the Cow Palace
in San Francisco Ca.. In his acceptance speech he said:

"Extremeism in the defense of Liberty is no vice, 
moderation in the pursuit of justice is no virtue".

The liberal press crucified him.

I think it would make a great Queer nation slogan myself.
:-)


LUX ./. owen

--
D. Owen Rowley {uunet,fernwood,sun}!autodesk!owen

  " It will be a cold March 17th that I celebrate the imposition of
	Romes rule, on Pagan Ireland. Erin go ppphhhhhttttttt! "
Newsgroups: soc.motss,soc.bi,alt.politics.homosexuality
From: gary@isis.cgd.ucar.edu (Gary Strand)
Subject: Re: Colorado Amendment 2: The First Fatality
Organization: Climate and Global Dynamics Division/NCAR, Boulder, CO
Date: Fri, 13 Nov 1992 14:50:13 GMT

th> T. Mike Howeth
gs> Gary Strand

gs> Quite frankly, I'm irritated and ashamed that his personal tragedy can be
    so cavalierly exploited for potential political gain. 

th> Gary states it well.  To imply that this stranger died for reasons which we
    can explain is clearly in the basest of taste, and provides absolutely no
    advancement for us.

  That's not the point. To use the personal tragedy of a disturbed and despar-
  ate individual as a rallying cry is cold-hearted. It reduces the arguments
  to cheap emotionalism, much the same as if CFV started bringing forth indi-
  viduals who were molested as children by pedophilic homosexuals, as "proof"
  of the immorality of homosexuality. Are we that tasteless?

--
Gary Strand                      Opinions stated herein are mine alone and are
strandwg@ncar.ucar.edu            not representative of NCAR, UCAR, or the NSF
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: guest@veronica.cs.wisc.edu (Guest account)
Subject: My letter to various colorado state departments
Summary: Letter.  Flames to /dev/null, please.
Keywords: CO-2
Reply-To: timdude@saavik.cs.wisc.edu
Organization: U of Wisconsin Madison - Computer Sciences
Date: Thu, 5 Nov 1992 19:47:38 GMT



This is a copy of the letter that I sent to the four addresses that I
posted earlier today.  Flames and grammatical corrections to
/dev/null, please.  I don't particularly care about the history or
dictionary definition of a word that I happened to use- just the
point, thanks very much.

November 5, 1992
Colorado Tourism Board
Department of Local Affairs
1625 Broadway Rm 1700
Denver, CO  80202

To whom it may concern:

I am shocked and disgusted, to say the least, that the voters of your
state passed Proposition 2, a referendum that amends the Colorado
constitution to take away any basic civil rights and protections
afforded to Gay, Lesbian, and Bisexual citizens of your state.  This
historic and ignominious vote marks the first time that Americans have
voted to take away the civil rights of a group of people.  

Colorado is a beautiful state and I have visited as a tourist three
times before.  I particularly enjoy the natural serenity of the Maroon
Bells area, and the ski resorts nearby.  However, until the repugnant
and hateful constitutional amendment created by Proposition 2 is
REPEALED, no matter how long it takes, I will never again set foot, or
spend even one thin dime in your state.  This policy of boycotting the
State of Colorado will also include:

Never knowingly buying goods and services from any company
headquartered in Colorado.  This includes cancelling, as of today, my
TCI cable subscription.

Getting the word out to friends and relatives that the people of
Colorado are an embarrassment to the rest of the citizens of the
United States for supporting such a measure, and urging them to also
boycott Colorado.

When I move on from college into the business world and have any say
whatsoever how my employer spends money, I will ensure that as little
of it as humanly possible goes to any business or organization located
in Colorado.

Once again, all that is necessary for Colorado to regain my business
is the repeal of the constitutional amendment created by Proposition
2.  I think that you'll find that lunatic fundamentalist "christians"
spend far less money on tourism and in other areas of the economy than
Gays, Lesbians, and Bisexuals.  It's your loss, and the voters of your
state richly deserve it.

-Timothy S. Petlock


Tim Petlock
timdude@saavik.cs.wisc.edu
All you need is a three-dollar-bill and a dream.
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: jakec@ralvmm.vnet.ibm.com (Jake Coughlin)
Subject: Re: Pat Robertson, Buchanan, Helms, VOTE!!!
Originator: jakec@ralvmm.vnet.ibm.com
Date: Tue, 10 Nov 92 14:20:18 GMT
Organization: IBM T. J. Watson Research

ry@cbnewsl.cb.att.com (ryerson.schwark):
> Me too.  I'd really like to fuck his tight ass.  Of course, I'd have
> to give him a chainsaw enema first.

why?  we want it to hurt!
-- 
Queer Without A Cause!
Jason Coughlin ( jakec@ralvmm.vnet.ibm.com )
"I find myself suddenly in the world, and I recognize that I have one
right alone: that of demanding human behavior of the other." -- Fanon
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: mattm@apple.com (Matthew Melmon)
Subject: Re: Marky Mark and Calvin Klein (was Re: Scott Masden)
Date: Thu, 12 Nov 1992 18:20:00 GMT
Organization: Apple Computer, Inc.
Followup-To: soc.motss

In article <Nov.12.11.08.00.1992.3178@math.rutgers.edu>,
bgonzal@math.rutgers.edu (Bil Gonzalez) wrote:

> I heard from an industry friend yesterday that Marky Mark will soon
> have a book out that makes Madonna's SEX book look like a rewrite of
> THE SOUND OF MUSIC.  Is explores his kinky(?!) sexuality (I was told).
> It is supposed to be VERY explicit.  I'll post more as I learn more.

Well, at the very least I hope it has plenty of *full* *male* *nudity*

SEX, I'm afraid, lacks much of such (in addition to Jason Priestley...)
I think there are two peni in the whole thing.  There is, however, a
very good butt shot, with a fine pair o' gonads hanging *way* down...  

*X*
(also - while I like the cool, neat-o steel cover, the binding *is*
a bit of a pain...  (ohhh, zee double-entendres))
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: mattm@apple.com (Matthew Melmon)
Subject: Re: Twice Fucked (Colorado gays)
Date: Tue, 10 Nov 1992 21:13:46 GMT
Organization: Apple Computer, Inc.
Followup-To: soc.motss

In article <1992Nov10.002439.23928@spdcc.com>, rdonahue@spdcc.com (Bob
Donahue) wrote:

> 	Put another way... if OR:9 is "really bad" and CO:2 is only
> "not-so-bad" does thatmean that you'll have an opinion on the relative
> merits of being put to death in a gas chamber or say being impaled?

No.  It means OR:9 was 'really bad' and CO:2 is 'bad.'  Your analogy
is overly sensationalistic, none too surprising.  The Oregon 
initiative *required* the state government to take an *active* role
in the persecution of homosexuals.  The Colorado intitiave removes
any legal barriers to persecution.  And so a more accurate analogy
would be being impaled, or having the local legal authorities 
mention that if someone were to impale you, there would be no
legal penalties.  You're fine, so long as you're not surrounded by 
sociopathic basket cases.

By requiring persecution, the Oregon initiative is an order of
magnitude worse.

*X*
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: mike@gordian.com (Michael A. Thomas)
Subject: Re: Orange County Went Democrat?
Organization: Gordian; Costa Mesa, CA
Date: Tue, 10 Nov 1992 17:53:14 GMT

In article <1dn53pINNjeg@mizar.usc.edu>, adolphso@mizar.usc.edu (adolphson) writes:
> In article <1992Nov9.182418.24390@gordian.com> 
> mike@gordian.com (Michael A. Thomas) writes:
> Two public visits and a series of closed door meetings 
> are not what I call campaigning heavily.  A friend of 
> mine in Pennsylvania saw Clinton three times in the 
> space of a couple of weeks.  

  In OC, a dem showing his/her face at all is an act of 
unspeakable courage. The fact that it happened twice
sent the wags into a frenzy,

> 
> > There is also talk about a concerted effort to get rid of Dornan 
> > at all costs calling him an 'embarrassment to the party'.
> 
> Is this a concerted effort by Republicans to get rid
> of him?  I think he's an embarrassment *period*.  I wonder
> what the Republicans are going to do when Dannemeyer
> decides which race to enter (for Senator or governor)
> in 1994.

  Oh dear, I wish I saved the article in the Times. I believe
that the person they interviewed was a major party operative
though not the head honcho. This person said that he would
fight Dornan first at the primary level, and then if need
be by supporting the Dem opponent. Sorry, I don't remember
his title. I suspect that this persons embarrassment has
more to do with Dornan's rabid attack dog personality and
the Moscow flap though.
  I haven't heard about Dannemeyer's plans, but I just can't
imagine him having *any* statewide appeal. Dannemeyer makes
Herchensohn look like DiFi. He is on record that he *won't*
run for the House again though (I witnessed it!).
-- 

		Michael Thomas	(mike@gordian.com)
	"I don't think Bambi Eyes will get you that flame thrower..."  
		-- Hobbes to Calvin
		USnail: 20361 Irvine Ave Santa Ana Heights, Ca,	92707-5637
		PaBell: (714) 850-0205 (714) 850-0533 (fax)
Xref: sparky soc.motss:46996 alt.politics.homosexuality:7030
From: dyer@spdcc.com (Steve Dyer)
Newsgroups: soc.motss,alt.politics.homosexuality
Subject: Re: Gender Parity
Date: 11 Nov 92 08:57:20 GMT
Article-I.D.: spdcc.1992Nov11.085720.18455
Organization: S.P. Dyer Computer Consulting, Cambridge MA

In article <1992Nov10.215839.25777@athena.mit.edu> tcarlin@athena.mit.edu (Thomas B Carlin) writes:
>	-	What IS GENDER PARITY?

I'm sitting this one out, having processed this topic to death in
GCN board and membership meetings until my mind turned into mincemeat.
Someone wake me when it's over...


-- 
Steve Dyer
dyer@ursa-major.spdcc.com aka {ima,harvard,rayssd,linus,m2c}!spdcc!dyer
From: black@sybase.com (Chris Black)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: Gay Wealth (was: My Letter to Colorado)
Date: 11 Nov 92 19:34:01 GMT

In article <1992Nov6.020902.2967@godel.questor.wimsey.bc.ca>, aberno@godel.questor.wimsey.bc.ca (Anthony Berno) writes:
|> In article <1992Nov05.204941.21570@watson.ibm.com>  
|> jakec@ralvmm.vnet.ibm.com (Jake Coughlin) writes:
|> 
|> > articles in the NY Times have already shown that America's gay
|> > population has a significantly larger percentage of disposable income.
|> > the average heterosexual household makes around $35,000 while the
|> > average gay male household makes around $55,000.
|> 
|> I absolutely *hate* having this statistic bandied about. The fact is, it  
|> is mostly the wealthy that have the ABILITY to set up something that could  
|> be described as a "gay household". Money and status buys freedom,  
|> particularly the freedom to be out of the closet.

Amen!  Moreover, these results are from marketing surveys.  They weren't
pure demographic research;  they were designed to show that there exists
an upscale gay market.  The existence or nonexistence of poor gay people was
of no interest to them, and those people were probably not counted
accurately.

-- Chris
balck@sybase.com
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: henry@ADS.COM (Henry Mensch)
Subject: Re: Good news, Good news, Bad news and revenge
Organization: Advanced Decision Systems; a div of Booz, Allen & Hamilton
Date: Fri, 6 Nov 1992 23:02:39 GMT

rich@netcom.com (Richard Poppen) wrote: 
->Caveats:  You may have to go up a couple of levels of supervisors to
->find one that understands the rules adequately.  Some minor airline may
->have different rules (in particular, watch out for America West and
->Southwest).  I have done this on Delta, USAir, and Alaska.  This is my
->best understanding, but I am neither a lawyer nor a travel agent.  You
->should check with your airline and/or travel agent before committing
->yourself to spend more money in some way.

what rich says is not *always* true ... the rules really do vary more
widely, especially since AA did abandon their fare reform about six
weeks ago.

still: it never hurts to ask, and be sure the agent reviews the rules
associated with the fare (ask for a copy if you're feeling
pessimistic).

--
# henry mensch / booz, allen & hamilton, inc.  / <henry@ads.com>
# "fight the real enemy."  -- sinead o'connor, and many others.
From: snodgras@lclark.edu (Bil Snodgrass)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: Colorado's Amendment 2
Date: 5 Nov 92 10:21:48 GMT
Article-I.D.: lclark.1992Nov5.102148.16303
Organization: Lewis & Clark College, Portland OR

In article <mattm-041192131417@mcmelmon.apple.com> mattm@apple.com (Matthew Melmon) writes:
>In article <1992Nov4.185406.3267@tc.cornell.edu>,
>shore@dinah.tc.cornell.edu (Melinda Shore) wrote:
>
>> Sorry Andrew, but your company contributes to the Colorado
>> tax base.  I intend to boycott Colorado and all products
>> made in Colorado (to the extent that I know about them),
>> too.
>
>Translation:  "Sorry if it puts you out of a job, but my principles 
>have been offended.  And besides, I don't work for a living, I
>think."
>
>*X*


War is war!  This policy of all out boycoot has just helped get
Arizona to pass a bill to start recongizing MLK day!

Bil
From: aberson@enh.nist.gov
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: RE: Marky Mark and Calvin Klein (was Re: Scott Masden)
Date: 12 Nov 92 18:58:59 GMT
Organization: NIST

In a previous article, lovegod@wam.umd.edu (Donald Andrew Agarrat) wrote:
>You guys cease to amaze me ...
> 
>No one here knows a fucking thing about what Marky Mark thinks  
>of GLB issues.  

There have been stories about him in the Advocate and on MTV.  He
is very gay-supportive, has performed in gay bars, and is very
happy to allow the men in gay bars to rip his pants off just
like he allows women to do the same at non-gay venues.

Okay?

Sim Aberson   Ft. Lauderdale, FL   aberson%3328.span@sdsc.edu

Hate, bigotry, and discrimination are not family values, even in
Colorado and Tampa.
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: heath@iceblink.cs.jhu.edu (Dave Heath)
Subject: Re: best remake of gay song
Organization: Johns Hopkins Computer Science Department, Baltimore, MD
Date: Thu, 12 Nov 1992 17:23:12 GMT

rhiann@carson.u.washington.edu (Sandra Hereld) writes:
>Actually, my current beef is just the oppisite; gay groups who sing
>songs that can't be told from any other...
>I just got Kitchens of Distinction (love the name) first album, and
>if I hadn't known they were gay before I bought it, I never would have
>known from anything in the album itself.   Aarrggghhhh!

What about all the pictures of naked men posing all over the cover? Or
the fact that there is very little writing on the cd itself except
for "silence equals death?"