From: PXP111@psuvm.psu.edu
Newsgroups: soc.culture.greek,soc.culture.yugoslavia
Subject: In the time of Cyril and Methodius...
Date: 3 Oct 92 00:19:38 GMT
Organization: Penn State University

Ronald Feldstein (feldstei@silver.ucs.indiana.edu)  wrote in mes-
sage  <Bv7wyE.JpE@usenet.ucs.indiana.edu>  of Sunday, 27 Sep 1992
03:42:14 GMT a text using a translation of the hagiographic "Life
of Methodius," whose earliest copy dates from the end of the 12th
century:                                                     ::::
:::::::

> Then Emperor Michael told Constantine the Philosopher (=Cyril):
> "Do you hear these words, Philosopher? No one else can do this,
> except you. Here, I'll give you all of these gifts and,then go,
> taking your bother,  Father Superior Methodius, along with you,
> for you are Salonicans,  and the Salonicans all speak pure Sla-
> vic."                            :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::
  :::
> ... After hearing all about this great mission,  they turned to
> prayer with others who were of a like mind.   And then God gave
> the Philosopher the Slavic alphabet.

Here are my personal observations:
a) Let's put the miracle aside. This was never the... "assessment
   of Michael II" as the fellow-netter puts it! As the always ca-
   reful Vassil Peytchev (vassil@mary-ann.cs.wisc.edu)  corrected
   in a copy posted at SCB, this was the era of Michael III (842-
   67).
b) I must agree with Michael Scordilis (miscord@mullian.ee.mu.oz.
   au) who almost instantly questioned  the historical value of a
   hagiographical account written 300 yrs  after the alleged sta-
   tement without even some sort of credible testimony! Given the
   information  that Ronald Feldstein and Lou Buis  (buis@buengc.
   bu.edu) supply, I think we can safely eliminate people as Kon-
   stantin of Preslav -who might, at least, have had some sort of
   information over this issue...
c) Far from "all" Thessalonians speaking "pure" Slavic, a contem-
   porary of the two brothers offers a slightly different picture
   on the way of life  in the second center of the Empire and the
   neighboring provinces!
   Some knowledge of Slavic, back then, by certain Greek-Byzanti-
   ne civilians of Thessaloniki may had been the case, mainly due
   to the  physical  proximity to lands with Slavic settlers  (as
   Michael Scordilis very eloquently explained with his "Italian-
   Corfiots" analogy etc); but this is a whole different thing!
   Moreover we can substantiate the rest of Michael's points over
   this issue using some excerpts of Ioannis Cameniatis, who only
   20 years  after the death  of Michael-Methodios  described the
   native-town of the two  "Apostles to the Slavs"  in the follo-
   wing excerpts from the "DE EXPUGNATIONE THESSALONICAE" that he
   wrote to Gregorios:

3  Our father-land is, my friend, Thessaloniki; and since this is
   the place where I grew and received my education, I will start
   (this script of mine) by describing her (Thessaloniki) to you,
   so that you will  also  learn about her (the town).   She is a
   major town  and  the first/most important  of the Macedonians,
   glorious in all aspects...

4  The city, as all confess, is populous and large, her walls and
   her defenses secure   protecting the inhabitants and as far as
   the sea port is concerned...

5  Having discussed the areas  south of the town  let me tell you
   about the  mountainous terrain on the north.  There is a moun-
   tain slightly further from the hills  that  compose a signifi-
   cant part of the town...

6  This is a  satisfactory account of the lands east and north of
   the city,  so having described the south already it is time to
   write about the west in as much detail as possible.   There is
   another valley... And even further in the west, constrained by
   other high and large mountainous blocks, there  is the town of
   Berroia,  the most significant  among her citizens and all the
   the others that live in the area. (1)
   In the middle of this flat area there are certain mixed villa-
   ges close to the town, inhabited by the so-called  Dragouvites
   & Sagoudatoi tribes, the latter related to the Skythian people
   -that do not live very far either for they also pay taxes. (2)
   Neighbors  as they are to the villages  near Thessaloniki they
   do not contribute less in the terms of relations with the Sky-
   thians through commerce, and this is attained better when they
   are in good terms among themselves and do not carry arms,which
   is something that may provoke hostilities  - as they both used
   to do a lot a long time ago, as we well know. (3)

8  ...And the city has experienced and resisted with every possi-
   ble mean many and difficult wars, both from the barbarians and
   even their relatives, the  Skythians... (4)

9  ..It was for these reasons (military defenses and faith to St.
   Demetrios) that our "polis" proved  to be superior  to all the
   above sources of danger. Then, the holy baptism of the Skythi-
   ans (5) transformed them to a Christian people and the milk of
   faith put the wars to an end... and pease came... (6)

                       <other stuff>

19 On top  of all these horrible news I just described,  a  scout
   arrived  with more  information concerning the barbarian Arabs
   approaching...

20  With all the wounds from his accident the general (of Thessa-
    loniki) left most of the responsibilities to this fellow, Ni-
    kitas, whom I mentioned before,   himself doing as much as he
    could despite the condition he was and called the neighboring
    Sklavenoi (7) ,   the forces that belonged to the district of
    Thessaloniki, and the general of Strymon,  all  to  gather to
    the city, a great deal of troops was ordered to summon; expe-
    rienced archers too,  so  that we would not even had to fight
    closely but beat them even before the actual encounter...

-----------------------------------------------------------------
(1)     Berroea urbs Macedoniae primum nominata est  a Thucidides
        I61, 4.
(2)     Drogouvites et Sagoudatoi slavorum gentes (cf. "Miraculo-
        rum S. Demetrii" libr. II passim);
        Sagudaoi oppidum in Asia Minore situm  (cf. Anna Comnene:
        "Alexias" XV 2);
        Drougoubitai cum Russis contributi (cf. Constantinos Por-
        fyrogennitos: "De admin.imperio" 9.108).
(3)     Skythai pro Bulgaris s.VIII-XIV p.Chr.n.  (cf. Moravcshik
        "Byzantinoturcica II 280).
(4)     cf. "Miraculorum S. Demetrii" libr. I, c. XII-Xv, et II.
(5)     Boris dux Bulgarorum a. 864p Chr.n. baptizatus est.
(6)     Bellum a Symeone duce Bulgarorum per annos 894-896 gestum
        hoc loco non commemoratur.
(7)     Sklavenoi in imperio Bulgarorum viventes Slavi  a. VII-IX
        nominantur  (cf. Moravcsik:"Byzantinoturcica" II 278; cf.
        etiam Vasmer: "Die Slaven in Griechenland" 254).