HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: DGS4@psuvm.psu.edu
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
Subject: Re: Blue Jays - Cut in half
Date: 3 Sep 92 17:56:41 GMT
Organization: Penn State University

>In article <24548@oasys.dt.navy.mil>, mckinney@oasys.dt.navy.mil (Patrick
>Mckinney) writes:
>|> shorts, (I fear flames)  the following opinion is added...
>|>
>|>
>|> WE, THE FANS OF THE ORIOLES OF BALTIMORE, ARE WATCHING WHAT IS BEING
>|> KNOWN AS THE ANNUAL MIGRATION SOUTH OF THE BLUE JAYS. THEY ARE
>|> ABOUT TO LOSE POSSESSION OF FIRST PLACE; WHICH IS WHAT WE ARE NOW CALLING
>|> THE "CANADIAN CHOKE"....
>|>
>|>
>|> insert flames here......

Please, Patrick, don't woof so loudly.  All the stats in the world
won't convince me that jinxes and woofing are unrelated.

To counteract the negative effect of your woofing I wish to make the
following comment, which I hope all Oriole fans will ditto:

WE, THE FANS OF THE BALTIMORE ORIOLES, ARE ENJOYING THE FINE PENNANT
RACE IN THE AL EAST BETWEEN THE ORIOLES, JAYS, AND BREWERS.  TRULY WE
ARE BLESSED TO WITNESS THE TALENTED PLAY OF ALL THREE SQUADS.  MAY THE
BEST TEAM WIN.

Crossing my fingers just in case.....

Dennis Shea
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
From: smp@gtech.com (Sergio M. Pedro)
Subject: Re: Boston Rex Sox Uniform - JRY - what does it mean?
Organization: GTECH Corporation, West Greenwich, RI
Date: Wed, 26 Aug 1992 16:56:51 GMT

In article <d+bnt+q.derich@netcom.com> derich@netcom.com (Scott A. Steinbrink) writes:
>What does "JRY" above the black line on the right shoulder mean?
>
>
>-- 
>
>Scott Allen Steinbrink
> 
>NetCom: Derich@netcom.com
>CompuServe: 76106.2055@CompuServe.Com (Going out of accountness soon!)
>America Online: Derichman
>
>All opinions and remarks are not my responsbility - it's my own
>mind's full responsbility. I just speak what it commands me to say. 
>
>"Deaf people can do anything except hear" - I. King Jordan

It means Jean R. Yawkey - The Red Sox owner who passed away before the season.
From: spork@camelot.bradley.edu (Richard Izzo)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
Subject: Re: 'Ol George goes for 3000, BUT ...
Date: 30 Aug 92 05:58:50 GMT
Distribution: na
Organization: Bradley University

In <1992Aug30.053444.3705@leland.Stanford.EDU> claudius@leland.Stanford.EDU (Nelson Lu) writes:

>>Considering that Brett is still managing to reach the .270's this season, he's
>>certainly more valuable than much of the team, considering the team batting
>>average.
>But it's a fairly empty .270 (actually .275), wiith only a .386 SLG and 
>a .326(!) OBP.  He is a slightly below average DH, which is still somewhat
>valuable, but not very much.  A good number of Royals are more valuable than
>he is.  (Joyner (with the defensive value), Miller, Howard(!), Jefferies,
>McReynolds, Appier, Montgomery, and perhaps even Pichardo)

	But how many of those can you depend on to bat .275?  There are only
a few Royals hitters that can be depended on to bat even that much.  I can
only hope that Omaha is putting forward quality hitting for the time Brett
does retire, which I hope is soon.  I mean, he still has an excellent shot
at breaking 3000 this year, even considering his record in September.


[][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][]
[]  rich.				     Bradley University   []
[]  spork@camelot.bradley.edu		     Peoria, IL	 	  []
[]  "Cute rots the intellect." -Garfield			  [] 
[][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][]
From: claudius@leland.stanford.edu (Nelson Lu)
Subject: RC/27 for CFs
Organization: DSG, Stanford University
Date: Mon, 31 Aug 92 07:33:05 GMT

NATIONAL LEAGUE
Andy Van Slyke, Pittsburgh	8.78
Brett Butler, Los Angeles	7.18
Reggie Sanders, Cincinnati	6.92
Lenny Dykstra, Philadelphia	6.58
Ray Lankford, St. Louis		6.51
Deion Sanders, Atlanta		6.37
Otis Nixon, Atlanta		5.62
Marquis Grissom, Montreal	5.53
NL AVERAGE			5.24
Steve Finley, Houston		4.96
Darrin Jackson, San Diego	4.51
Howard Johnson, New York	4.43
Sammy Sosa, Chicago		4.43
Dave Martinez, Cincinnati	4.01
Doug Dascenzo, Chicago		3.31
Darren Lewis, San Francisco	3.09

AMERICAN LEAGUE
Ken Griffey, Seattle		8.19
Kirby Puckett, Minnesota	7.47
Juan Gonzalez, Texas		5.78
Mike Devereaux, Baltimore	5.64
Roberto Kelly, New York		5.45
Ellis Burks, Boston		5.22
Kenny Lofton, Cleveland		5.18
AL AVERAGE			4.61
Willie Wilson, Oakland		4.47
Lance Johnson, Chicago		4.42
Robin Yount, Milwaukee		4.14
Devon White, Toronto		3.99
Junior Felix, California	3.79
Brian McRae, Kansas City	3.27
Milt Cuyler, Detroit		2.94

===============================================================================
GO CALIFORNIA ANGELS!
===============================================================================
Nelson Lu (claudius@leland.stanford.edu)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
From: thf2@ellis.uchicago.edu (Ted Frank)
Subject: Re: The Monthly Cecil Fielder Thread
Reply-To: thf2@midway.uchicago.edu
Organization: University of Chicago Computing Organizations
Date: Tue, 1 Sep 1992 12:50:41 GMT

In article <1992Sep01.110530.6268@brtph560.bnr.ca> psycho@brtpa25.bnr.ca (Paul Jezioranski) writes:
>
>This is the most ridiculous talent appraisal I've witnessed in some
>time. Power hitters are paid to drive in runs. Nobody has been better at
>that for the last three years than Cecil Fielder. 

No -- nobody's done it more often than Cecil Fielder.  That doesn't mean
he's the best at it, just that he's happened to be in the lineup with
the most opportunities.

Canseco's much better at it.  And he eats up many fewer outs in the process.

For example, in 1991, Canseco had 178 PA with runners in scoring position,
made 112 outs, and had 85 RBI.  Thomas had 192 PA with RISP, made 96 outs,
and had 75 RBI.  Fielder had 209 PA with RISP, made 125 outs, and had 88 RBI.

Other AL RBI men in 1991:
		PA	OutsRBIs RBIs/Out
Tartabull	153	 75	68	.907
Joyner		160	 93	73	.785
Thomas		192	 96	75	.781
Ventura		173	100	77	.770
Canseco		178	112	85	.759
Sierra		204	122	92	.754
Hrbek		146	 87	64	.736
Fielder		209	125	88	.704
Belle		138	 87	61	.701
Ripken		177	102	70	.686		
Griffey		200	111	76	.685
Tettleton	155	 86	57	.663
G Vaughn	177	113	74	.655
Greenwell	177	112	74	.661
Puckett		166	107	65	.607
Carter		212	136	76	.558

Six teams had better RBI men than did the Detroit Tigers.  Two teams with
worse RBI men, the Orioles and Mariners, had RBI men who played much more
difficult defensive positions than first base at a cost of about 2 additional
RBIs.
-- 
           .........................................................
          ted frank | thf2@midway.uchicago.edu | standard disclaimers
         the university of chicago law school, chicago, illinois 60637
         here i sit looking for a warming smile in a house of cold wit
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
From: 11dmcvay@gallua.gallaudet.edu (Daniel T. McVay)
Subject: UPDATE: Team Support polls.
Organization: Gallaudet University
Date: Thu, 3 Sep 1992 16:59:31 GMT

So far, at this moment, The Baltimore O's are leading by 3 votes over
the Boston Red Sox. And the Blue Jays come in a close third.

Final results to be posted tonight or tomorrow morning.

-- 
Daniel Mcvay	11dmcvay@gallua.gallaudet.edu	11dmcvay@gallux.gallaudet.edu
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Concrete Shoes,Cyanide,TNT,Done Dirt Cheap,Neckties,Contracts,HIGH Voltage
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
From: claudius@leland.Stanford.EDU (Nelson Lu)
Subject: Re: Clearing Waivers
Organization: DSG, Stanford University, CA 94305, USA
Date: Mon, 31 Aug 92 18:17:25 GMT

In article <1992Aug31.173620.729@wuecl.wustl.edu> tjs@earth.wustl.edu (tom sullivan) writes:
>Yesterday morning on KMOX, they asked Cardinal GM Dal Maxvill about
>players clearing waivers. Dal said that the Cardinals had waivers on
>all of the 25 active players and received them around July 29th. He
>indicated that other teams had received waivers on almost all of their
>players and only 3 or 4 players had been claimed. Those that were
>claimed were rumored to be involved in trades. Seems to me that
>clearing waivers is really pretty easy. Seems to me that a contender
>would want to claim any of Ozzie Smith, Bob Tewksbury, or Tom
>Pagnozzi, to name a few of our players.

But they don't get the players even if they claim them; the waivers are always
revocable.

Besides, they alienate the teams from whom players were claimed, anyway.

===============================================================================
GO CALIFORNIA ANGELS!
===============================================================================
Nelson Lu (claudius@leland.stanford.edu)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
From: rstimets@silver.ucs.indiana.edu (robert and stimets)
Subject: Re: MLB Standings and Scores for Fri, Aug 28th, 1992
Organization: Indiana University
Date: Mon, 31 Aug 1992 21:33:54 GMT

In article <55915@olivea.atc.olivetti.com> roberto@oliveb.ATC.Olivetti.Com (Roberto Ricca) writes:
>In article <BtpIB6.8LM@usenet.ucs.indiana.edu> rstimets@silver.ucs.indiana.edu (robert and stimets) writes:
>
>>By my accounting LA is just two losses from mathematical elimination.  They'd
>>be the first to accomplish the feat.
>
>Well, no. Right now (08/29 8.30 PM PDT) the tragic number for the Dodgers
>is 12. For the Mariners is 10 or 9 (Mariners are still playing).
>
The "magic" number only takes into account play of the team and the division
leader.  However, since all play in the NL is intra-divisional starting next
Monday (excluding rain-outs), a set number of wins will have to occur for 
teams that lead LA.  It is a much more difficult problem determining scenarios
in which LA can pass all five other teams than it is for Seattle to do so since
the other teams in ALWest have more games against the other division.

On the other hand, I've got to admit that my accounting was in err.  I can say
that LA can POSSIBLY be eliminated by Wednesday.

I'll post similar "early departure" dates for the other divisions soon.

RStimets
From: genetic+@pitt.edu (Dr. Dave)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
Subject: Re: roy NL
Keywords: eat more moose knuckles
Date: 4 Sep 92 14:38:08 GMT
Organization: Department of Industrial Engineering

Thus spake rlopez@loanstar.tamu.edu (Robert Lopez):
>
>I still like Karros.  then Sanders.  then Alou.

Player		 AVG	 OBP	 SLG	SB	CS	defense
------		 ---	 ---	 ---	--	--	-------
Eric Karros	.255	.299	.443	 2 	 1	fair to good at 1B
Reggie Sanders	.277	.357	.482	16	 6	fair, CF
Moises Alou	.277	.327	.442	14	 1	fair to good, LF


Sanders has 345 PA (through last Sunday), Karros 450 or so.

I can't see any way to prefer Karros to Sanders.  Sanders hits for better
power and better on-base while playing equally well at a tougher defensive
position, and he runs the bases better.  What's to like about Karros?  NO
adjustment for Dodgers Stadium vs. Riverfront is going to make up for 100
points of OPS and the difference between CF and 1B defensively.

-- 
      David M. Tate      | From my dugout sleep I fell into the Game
 dtate@unix.cis.pitt.edu | And I crouched in the circle while my insides froze
 Randall 'Chico' Jarrell | One out from death, one hit from dreamt-of glory
"Death of a Pinch Hitter"| I woke to 'Strike One!' and the nightmare sliders...
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
From: bohnert@leland.Stanford.EDU (matthew bohnert)
Subject: Purest Definition of CY Young Award
Organization: DSG, Stanford University, CA 94305, USA
Date: Fri, 4 Sep 92 08:34:54 GMT

I believe the inscription on the pedestal of the Cy Young award simply
says :

MOST VALUABLE PITCHER

Not `Pitcher with the lowest ERA', or `Pitcher with the most wins',
or `Pitcher with the most strikeouts', but

MOST VALUABLE PITCHER  (in case you missed it the first time)

Matt Bohnert




Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
From: g_waugaman@nac.enet.dec.com (Glenn R. Waugaman)
Subject: Re: The Monthly Cecil Fielder Thread
Organization: Digital Equipment Corporation
Date: Fri, 4 Sep 1992 14:30:38 GMT


In article <1992Sep4.031814.2861@Princeton.EDU>, roger@crux.Princeton.EDU (Roger Lustig) writes...
>In article <1992Sep3.213256.13572@nntpd.lkg.dec.com> g_waugaman@nac.enet.dec.com (Glenn R. Waugaman) writes:
> 
>>Through 1991 for his career those numbers are .275/.374/.548 ROB versus 
>>.249/.319/.508 bases empty, and the trend appears to be continuing again
>>this year.  If Cecil is eating up outs and killing potential rallies, at
>>least he doesn't appear to be doing it excessively so with men on (not
>>with that .374 OBP).  I can certainly live with that bases empty/men on 
>>trade-off.
> 
>OK.  Now, RBI power is basically SLG, so let's focus on that.  (With big
>bats, a lot of those extra times on base are semi-intentional and
>intentional walks with runners on.)  Now, if his lifetime splits are 
>a diff. of 40 points, that's not all that huge.  For one thing, the *league*
>improved by 22 points with men on last year.  (A fluke, imho; it was 11
>in 90, 12 in 89, 18 in 88, 5 in 87.  12 seems like a good number.)
>So that leaves 28 points of difference.
> 
>And < 2000 PA.  Now, SLG isn't a Bernouilli variable, so we can't 
>compute variance th usual way.  I'd say the variance is *bigger* than 
>with a binary var. (right, Dr. Dave?), meaning that we can use .25/n
>as a lower bound.  For a s.d. somewhere around .018.  
> 
>Meaning the difference isn't significant by a long shot if we do a 
>two-sample T-test.

Okay, I should have separated the career numbers from the two "MVP" 
seasons (which I am not arguing in favor of, by the way) under question,
1990 and 1991.  I really don't know what Fielder did in that period in
Toronto. 

In both 1990 and 1991 Fielder had a SLG of over *.600* with men on base.  
Even with the knowledge that SLG is boosted slightly for the entire league
with men on, how many players matched that?  [By the way, Fielder's OBP
for those two years with men on was .405 and .392, and even though that's
partially a result of pitchers being careful with him-- although a
significant component was improved batting average-- at least he's not up
there "selfishly" flailing away for the RBIs as I've so often heard said
in here.] 

My comments are in response to statements like "20 players in the league 
would have matched Fielder's RBI totals in that lineup".  That's 
hyperbole, pure and simple, because the statement is false.  It's one 
thing to say that based on your knowledge of Fielder's overall statistics 
he's overrated because you don't believe he can keep up that kind of 
production with men on base (a reasonable opinion); it's quite another to 
deny that the excellent production even existed in those seasons, but was 
rather purely an illusion created by the number of opportunities that 
Fielder was given.  The opportunities were there, but Fielder also 
excelled in those situations.

---
Glenn Waugaman
Digital Equipment Corporation
Littleton, MA
g_waugaman@nac.enet.dec.com
---
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
From: hbrooks@uiatma.atmos.uiuc.edu (Harold_Brooks)
Subject: Cone and Overwork?
Organization: NSSL
Date: Mon, 31 Aug 1992 21:29:03 GMT

While watching Cito Gaston sit transfixed in the Toronto dugout
as David Cone started to unravel Saturday, Jim Kaat brought up
the point that Cone had not been as effective in the last month
in New York as earlier in the year.  We've had some discussion
about Torborg allowing Cone to reach huge pitch totals with 
the Mets and I began to wonder if it wasn't part of a plan.

Consider the possibility that the Mets decided early in the
season that they were not going to be able to re-sign Cone.
At that point, they have absolutely no interest in him being
an effective pitcher in 1993 (unless they would like him to 
be worse than in the past).  They might have told Torborg at 
that time to use Cone as much as he wanted to, without regard
to possible long-term ill effects.  When they dropped out of 
the pennant race, they suddenly had no interest in David Cone's 
performance for the rest of 1992 and traded him thinking that
they could get more now than with the draft choices.  I think
it's a plausible strategy for a team with an unsignable free
agent pitcher to use.  You gamble that the effects won't be
large this season in exchange for getting more innings out of
a top echelon pitcher.  If he gets hurt, you might not get the
draft choices, but other than that you'd only lose the remainder
of this season.  Of course, this assumes that front offices have
a plan.

Harold
-- 
Harold Brooks                    hbrooks@uiatma.atmos.uiuc.edu
National Severe Storms Laboratory/CIMMS (Norman, OK)
Andres Galarraga (Through 30 August)  .231 BA  .356 SLG  .270 OBA
30 H from .300  8 H from .250  8 HBP  9 BB    
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
From: hlee@unixg.ubc.ca (Henry Lee)
Subject: Re: DAVID CONE TO BLUE JAYS
Organization: University of British Columbia, Vancouver, B.C., Canada
Date: Sat, 29 Aug 1992 03:53:11 GMT

I understand that David Cone will start in the next 5 days, 
and Guzman shortly thereafter.

So, who's now in the starting rotation ?  Please correct me
if I'm wrong ...

	Jack Morris
	Jimmy Key
	Todd Stottlemyre (sp?)
	David Cone
	Juan Guzman

David Wells goes back to the bullpen (a lefty in the bullpen is
quite useful, IMHO).  What happens to Stieb is now anyone's guess.
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
Subject: Mets trade Cone
From: $garyf@sasb.byu.edu (Gary B. Fitzgerald)
Date: 27 Aug 92 10:55:41 -0700
Organization: Student Auxiliary Services

Okay -- so what's the deal with the Mets throwing away their last bit of 
remaining talent.  Cone has been traded to the Jays for a rookie third 
baseman and a player to be named later.  Someone please help me understand 
Mets management.
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
From: blankman@sel.hep.upenn.edu (Alan Blankman)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
Subject: Re: Orioles get Craig Lefferts
Date: 1 Sep 92 13:14:56 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: University of Pennsylvania

In article <1992Sep1.053913.7362@usenet.ins.cwru.edu>, bk713@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Kimon Zachary) writes:

> .[stuff]...
> Wonder if Lefferts will go to the pen.  He might be wearing thin as a 
> starter.
> 

> 
> -- 
> Kimon Zachary			"I stand by all the misstatements that
> JHU School of Med.			I've made." --Dan Quayle
> Baltimore, MD		
> "Send lawyers, guns, and money; the sh*t has hit the fan."--Jack Clark



ESPN said that Lefferts would be starting a game [later this week?  My ears
don't work too well in the a.m.]  


Also MilACKi is starting tonight.  What were his numbers at Rochester?  





					--Alan Blankman
					  


PS - The Jays get Cone, and he blows a start.  The O's go to Oakland, and Jose
     gets traded for a Sierra (chickenpocks), Russell (blows saves (and hopefully
     holds)), and Witt.     Great timing for the O's, eh? 
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
From: psycho@brtpa25.bnr.ca (Paul Jezioranski)
Subject: Re: The Monthly Cecil Fielder Thread
Reply-To: psycho@brtpa25.bnr.ca (Paul Jezioranski)
Organization: Bell-Northern Research, Ottawa, Canada
Date: Wed, 02 Sep 1992 13:12:54 GMT

In article <1992Sep1.125041.21941@midway.uchicago.edu>,
thf2@ellis.uchicago.edu (Ted Frank) writes:
> In article <1992Sep01.110530.6268@brtph560.bnr.ca>
psycho@brtpa25.bnr.ca (Paul Jezioranski) writes:
> >
> >This is the most ridiculous talent appraisal I've witnessed in some
> >time. Power hitters are paid to drive in runs. Nobody has been better at
> >that for the last three years than Cecil Fielder. 
> 
> No -- nobody's done it more often than Cecil Fielder.  That doesn't mean
> he's the best at it, just that he's happened to be in the lineup with
> the most opportunities.
> 
> Canseco's much better at it.  And he eats up many fewer outs in the process.
> 
> For example, in 1991, Canseco had 178 PA with runners in scoring position,
> made 112 outs, and had 85 RBI.  Thomas had 192 PA with RISP, made 96 outs,
> and had 75 RBI.  Fielder had 209 PA with RISP, made 125 outs, and had 88 RBI.
> 
> Other AL RBI men in 1991:

  **** stats deleted ****

> Six teams had better RBI men than did the Detroit Tigers.  Two teams with
> worse RBI men, the Orioles and Mariners, had RBI men who played much more
> difficult defensive positions than first base at a cost of about 2 additional
> RBIs.
> -- 

I won't argue the numbers but, as always, statistics are quite misleading:

	1) You indicate each performers RBI vs. RISP, but there's no 
	   quantification of the pitching quality. How do I know that the
	   avg. ERA of the pitchers Fielder faced in these situations wasn't
	   a half point lower than those Canseco faced.

	2) You've got to be in the lineup to get RBIs. Fielder is in more often
	   than Canseco.

	3) Maybe six teams had better RBI men than the Tigers, but they have 
	   led the league in runs scored the past two or three years. That's
	   what really counts.


------------------------------------------------------------------------
Paul Jezioranski			|	What, me worry??
psycho@bnr.ca				|
Bell-Northern Research, Inc. RTP, NC	|
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
From: thf2@ellis.uchicago.edu (Ted Frank)
Subject: The Monthly Cecil Fielder Thread
Keywords: eat more moose
Reply-To: thf2@midway.uchicago.edu
Organization: University of Chicago Computing Organizations
Date: Mon, 31 Aug 1992 20:38:43 GMT

In article <1992Aug31.151729.1491@island.COM> fester@island.COM (Mike Fester) writes:
>In article <1992Aug28.225043.25547@leland.Stanford.EDU> claudius@leland.Stanford.EDU (Nelson Lu) writes:
>>In article <8#k-MW_@engin.umich.edu> martyp@engin.umich.edu (Martin Pochmara) writes:
>>>AMERICAN LEAGUE MVP....
>>>
>>>Fielder.....to make up for the last two years!
>>>still leading in RBI's
>>>up there in homers
>>>Not the same year as the last two, but dammit...he should be rewarded!
>>
>>For what?  In '90 he was probably among the top 5, but last year he was no
>>better than being about 40th-50th best, if that.  And this year's downright
>>mediocre (for an MVP candidate, that is).
>
>While he's not an MVP candidate (nor should he be) this year, that "40th-50th
>best, if that" is utter nonsense. 

Why?  He was, what, the third or fourth best player on his team?  Three
times fourteen, that works out to 42.  He's certainly closer to 40th than
1st.

Ted "less likely to risk public nudity over Howard Johnson than other
     r.s.bb posters" Frank
-- 
           .........................................................
          ted frank | thf2@midway.uchicago.edu | standard disclaimers
         the university of chicago law school, chicago, illinois 60637
         here i sit looking for a warming smile in a house of cold wit
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
From: binkley@epas.utoronto.ca (P. Binkley)
Subject: Re: DAVID CONE TO BLUE JAYS
Organization: University of Toronto - EPAS
Date: Thu, 27 Aug 1992 16:22:27 GMT

>Where is Cone in his contract?  Must be in his last year: that's the
>only kind of pitcher the Jays ever trade for ;-)
>
Yup.  Last week's BW says he's a free agent this winter.  Love those
draft picks.

Peter Binkley