From: kcochran@nyx.cs.du.edu (Keith "Justified And Ancient" Cochran)
Subject: Re: Guilty of ... STUPIDITY!
Summary: Hoping everybody's forgotten what you said, Will? 
X-Disclaimer: Nyx is a public access Unix system run by the University
	of Denver for the Denver community.  The University has neither
	control over nor responsibility for the opinions of users.
Keywords: You expect me to mark my deletions?  Dream on... 
Organization: Nyx, Public Access Unix at U. of Denver Math/CS dept.
Date: Sun, 27 Sep 92 14:25:43 GMT

In article <1992Sep26.010732.2804@zooid.guild.org> Will Steeves <goid@zooid.guild.org> writes:
>
>Besides which, I was quoting my *thoughts and feelings*, and you don't have
>to be Sigmund Freud to know that what one feels, has little correspondence
>to what one actually does.

What one feels generally has a large on impact on what one does, though.

>Except for *one* fight at the age of *eight*, I have never committed violence
>against *anyone* (and I am even ashamed of the *one* fight that I was in ...
>hardly the mark of a serial killer, which is the picture you have painted of
>me), but I would be a fool to say that I have never had the *thought* - Are
>you *really* going to say that it has *never* even crossed your mind, Dan?

We're not talking about fighting, we're talking about killing.   There's just
a tad bit of difference, you know?

>
>
>I was referring to the fact that I just *knew* that people were going to
>accuse my *thoughts* of being *actual violence*, as you seem to have done.

No he hasn't.  You said something killing a woman if she showed you a lack
of respect by having an abortion and not telling you about it.

While some men will only THINK those thoughts, some men will ACT on those
thoughts.

And that seems to be a pretty good reason for throwing out every "spousal
notiication" law in the book.

>
>I was speaking QUITE figuratively, Dan.  *She* herself often said "There are
>times when I thought of killing you," which I thought were quite extreme,
>but I knew that she was only speaking from anger, *not* from any intention
>of committing violence.  When I spoke similarly, I meant the exact same
>thing.

Maybe you should find yourself a less violent relationship?

>
>Sure, but I'll bet the back forty that you at least *thought* of it.  My

I didn't think of violence.  Bob told me he had fooled around on me, I packed
my things, and left.  That was a couple of years ago, and we're still friends.

>only crime was talking about it in public, *just* to make the point that this
>sort of situation can be *very* stressful.  I was *not* attempting to show

And, since this sort of situation can be *very* stressful, and since some women
are going to wind up being killed if they have to tell their spouses of an
abortion, you want to require women to tell their spouses.

Wonderful logic.

>This is why I am starting a support and counselling referral group.  I *know*
>just how much men in this situation feel like the system ignores them and
>has nothing but contempt for them, how they might even be "responsible" and
>take her to every counselling appointment, but will be looked at with total
>malice if they attempt to enter the appointment, as though they have no right
>to have their feelings heard.

They don't.  One of the reasons for that is so that the *woman* can be free
to make her own decisions as to what to do, free from the influence of anybody
else.

>
>Most men are given *no* chance to express their feelings, especially if the
>women they love, and who supposedly love them, refuse to speak honestly and
>openly, and stand a *great* chance of having more than just evil *thoughts*.

Gee, and why would the women "refuse to speak honestly and openly"?  Maybe
becuase they've already heard about how if they "show disrespect", they'll
be killed?

>
>Whether you believe it or not, I am trying to *STOP* the violence that comes
>from the distress of this situation.  I want to give men someone to talk to,
>someone to express their feelings to, and show them that there *are* people
>who care, and to help them handle their anger.

I would suggest you do this by fighting against spousal notification laws...

>Look, I came out, honestly and openly with the fact that I *dared* to have
>violent *emotions*.  You and about five others, slammed me and called me
>"Neanderthal," "sexist," "anti-women," "walking time bomb," and a thousand
>other names.

All of which are justified, IMNSHO.

>Yet I am going to respond to you all in a cool, calm, rational, and
>non-warlike manner, in spite of the fact that I probably *ought* to flame
>you all to Kingdom Come for being so insulting.

"...I probably would have snapped right there, and killed her on the spot."
(Note:  Note an exact quote).

>No offense meant, but now tell me who the Neanderthal is?

The man who said that 'if a woman showed me such a lack of respect as to have
an abortion and not tell me about it, or told me about it a year later, I
probably would snap, and kill her right on the spot".
--
=kcochran@nyx.cs.du.edu | B(0-4) c- d- e++ f- g++ k(+) m r(-) s++(+) t | TSAKC=
=My thoughts, my posts, my ideas, my responsibility, my beer, my pizza.  OK???=
= "I warned Larry about such intellectually dishonest posting."               =
=    -- Peter Nyikos in article <nyikos.717105984@milo.math.scarolina.edu>    =
Newsgroups: soc.women,soc.men