HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: jjh00@outs.ccc.amdahl.com (Joel J. Hanes)
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
Subject: Re: Bear Identification
Keywords: bears
Date: 16 Aug 92 00:10:58 GMT
Reply-To: jjh00@OUTS.ccc.amdahl.com (Joel J. Hanes)
Organization: Amdahl Corporation, Sunnyvale CA


  scott@phylo.life.uiuc.edu (Scott Howard) writes:
>
> Telling the difference between Black Bears and Grizzlies is very easy-
>
> The highest point on a Grizz' body is its front shoulders, whereas
> a black bear's head is its head.
>
> A Grizz' toes point in, a black's point out.

Black: Straight line from top of head to nose
Griz:  Noticeable bump at eyebrows, "dished" snout below.
From: sondeen@isi.edu (Jeff Sondeen)
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
Subject: Re: light weight coffee makers - (was: totally obnoxious camper w/o my espresso)
Keywords: nn
Date: 12 Aug 92 03:06:50 GMT
Reply-To: sondeen@isi.edu (Jeff Sondeen)
Organization: USC-Information Sciences Institute

Does anyone know of a manual or battery-operated coffee bean grinder
available by mail order?  (for backpacking).

Thanks.
--
/jeff

Life and love are as deep [as your] eyes are wide... -Rush
From: baldwin@cogsci.ucsd.EDU (Ken Baldwin)
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
Subject: pyramid/tepee shelters
Date: 23 Aug 92 15:10:05 GMT
Organization: University of California, San Diego


I'm looking for a single-pole, pyramid/tepee-style rain
shelter. I'm aware of three such designs: the Megamid by
Black Diamond (too big), the Mountainshelter by
Mountainsmith (4-per version ok in size but, like everything
MS does--IMHO, overengineered. E.g., removable floor and
condensation liner), and the Nova by Outbound (haven't seen
this one yet).

(1) Are there others available?

The ideal item would allow me to substitute my 4ft walking
stick for the pole, have no floor, vent reasonably well
(e.g., be pitchable with a gap around the bottom AND have
some sort of vent near the top), and be roomy enough for 2 people,
their gear, and still have room to cook. In buggy areas, I'd
like to fit a small mesh bivy underneath.

(2) Does anyone have experience with such shelters?

I may well end up making my own in order to get what I want.
Any advice about what works or doesn't work well would be
appreciated. (E.g., how bad IS the condensation problem? Should
I make mine out of a breathable fabric?)

Thanks,
Ken Baldwin
(baldwin@cogsci.ucsd)
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
From: ray@skink.cis.ohio-state.edu (william c ray)
Subject: Comments on Yellowstone
Organization: The Ohio State University, Department of Computer and Information Science
Date: Fri, 14 Aug 1992 13:08:10 GMT

This just in from a friend who has just returned from his
first trip to the american west, uploaded with permission
for your amusement(?)...


Scene:  Enormous crowd of suburban-inbred and suburban-raised suburbanites
        of various ages standing, slouching, sitting on the wooden platform
        intended to keep these mindless creatures from falling through any
        thin spots in the earth's crust and being scalded to the point of
        non-existence.  (Not that that would be much of a loss.)  They have
        been sitting in their RV's all morning and either the motion or the
        stale atmosphere exuded by the reaction of shag carpet with potato
        chip crumbs and orange soda and the *lifelike* woodgrain vinyl so
        *tastefully* used *everywhere* has made this *future of America* a
        bit duller than usual today.  They are waiting for the predictable
        eruption of Old Faithful, an appropriate activity for this group,
        which will, no doubt, be the highlight of each individual's day,
        inspiring and uplifting each for many days to come.  As it starts
        to rise, the crowd utters its favorable response, the volume propor-
        tional to the height of the column of water and steam.  As it dies
        away, the crowd applauds and stares, waiting for the park people
        to turn it back on for an encore.

Me:     Yippiehoo....

Jen:    Get me the hell out of here.


Next time... the canyon survey, or, "Damn, that hole's bigger than the last!"

--- Craig

Xref: sparky rec.backcountry:6196 misc.consumers:15218
From: hsieh@gismo.Corp.Sun.COM ( Richard Hsieh )
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry,misc.consumers
Subject: -- Yakima vs. Thule --
Date: 15 Aug 1992 16:49:29 GMT
Organization: Sun Microsystems Computer Corp.,  Menlo Park, CA
Distribution: world
Reply-To: hsieh@gismo.Corp.Sun.COM ( Richard Hsieh )
NNTP-Posting-Host: gismo.corp.sun.com

Hi,

i'm about to purchase a roof rack for carrying my bikes.

can someone shed me some lights on the difference of Thule vs. Yakima?

they are about the same price, why most of my friends bought Yakima? and some
how it seems to me Thule uses higher quality material.

recommendations??



--
richard hsieh                     |                                        
1.415.688.9079                    |    Too bad, I can only speak for myself.
hsieh@gismo.Corp.sun.com          |
--
From: scott@hplvec.LVLD.HP.COM (Scott Turner)
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
Subject: Re: Closed Ski Areas in Colorado - Post 1
Date: 12 Aug 92 22:42:05 GMT
Organization: Hewlett-Packard Co., Loveland, CO

In rec.backcountry, johnf@Auspex.COM (John Fereira) writes:

>In article <122440158@hpfcso.FC.HP.COM> ajs@hpfcso.FC.HP.COM (Alan Silverstein) writes:
>|And then there's Sharkstooth, which is out on the *plains* near Greeley,
>|Colorado.  (Actually on a pretty good sized hill near the Poudre River.)
>|Dunno when it closed, I never skied there, for some reason.  :-)

>Isn't Sharkstooth located in more of a hole than on a hill.  I seem to recall
>something unusual about it.  There's also a resort I've read about that

Nope, Sharkstooth is on a hill that's a part of some small bluffs on the
south bank of the Poudre river.  I don't know that I'd agree with Alan
that it's pretty good sized hill though.  Maybe by Greeley standards eh?


Scott Turner  scott@hpisla.LVLD.HP.COM
HP VXI Systems Division
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
From: JB <jbl@mesaadm.cre.nt.com>
Subject: Re: Wanted, good 4-5 day East Coast hike
Organization: Censored
X-Useragent: Nuntius v1.1b3
Date: Thu, 13 Aug 1992 14:15:10 GMT

In article <1992Aug13.125823.14205@crd.ge.com> kenneth m martin,
martink@homer.NoSubdomain.NoDomain writes:
>I've heard that the Pisca (spelling) National Forest in N.C. is nice. 
>Any comments ?
From: dovey@renoir.llnl.gov (Donald Dovey)
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
Subject: Wilderness preservation (was Re: Oregon Wallowas)
Date: 20 Aug 92 00:52:03 GMT
Reply-To: dovey@renoir.llnl.gov (Donald Dovey)
Distribution: usa
Organization: Lawrence Livermore National Laboratory

In article <1992Aug19.203709.23028@cis.ohio-state.edu>,
marcus@rugby.cis.ohio-state.edu (Marcus Salyer) writes:
> In article <1992Aug19.184303.14972@guinness.idbsu.edu>
jahn@guinness.idbsu.edu writes:
>>I guess the point is: while packers and hikers are yelling at each other
>>over poop, chalk dust, lycra and flies, the world is pretty much getting
>>destroyed.
> 
> This point should appear at the beginning of all posts on this group.
> I think it is worth the bandwidth.

I actually don't mind seeing debates in this group with respect to
wilderness use and environmental concerns.  I've learned a great deal
during the discussions of logging, etc.  If nothing else, the discussions
allow those with different viewpoints to establish their positions and
concerns -- which is probably necessary if we are going to work together
as you suggest.  I don't think there is a more appropriate newsgroup for
these discussions -- talk.environment comes to mind but it deals with
environmental issues at a more general level.

Most people who enjoy wilderness recreation are concerned about its
preservation.  The recurring discussions about use on this group may
make readers aware of some of the issues and lead them to join
organizations that deal with those issues.

A majority of postings here seem to fall into one of the following
categories:

 - Equipment advice
         (thermarests, shoes, backpacks, tents, sleeping bags, REI,
          water filters, lanterns, pocketknives, stoves, skis, etc)
 - Advice for specific locations / trips
 - Backcountry dangers
         (giardia, bears, snakes, avalanches, mosquitoes,
          ticks, lightning, hypothermia, rescue, etc)
 - Threats to wilderness and wilderness ethics
         (logging, horses, dogs, firerings & fires, mountain bikes,
          snowmobiles, human waste, tourons, motorhomes, access,
          population, etc)
 - Backcountry techniques
         (cooking & recipes, estimating trip time, bringing children,
          games, outdoors classes, keeping dry, orienteering, getting
          permits, identifying mushrooms, starting a fire, etc)
 - Trip reports & trip anecdotes (fairly rare)

My interest in most of these categories varies with time and topic,
but I'm always interested in wilderness preservation issues.

--
Don Dovey                                            dovey@llnl.gov
From: hall@vice.ICO.TEK.COM (Hal F Lillywhite)
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
Subject: Re: Oregon Wallowas...pack animals
Date: 21 Aug 92 18:15:51 GMT
Organization: Tektronix Inc., Beaverton, Or.

In article <16u8ktINN78@grapevine.EBay.Sun.COM> mtnbiker@singletrack.EBay.Sun.COM writes:

>For wilderness SAR a bike can cover/penetrate/search more area and 
>foot bound searchers in a much shorter time, enhacing chances of a 
>lost persons survival.

Well, a bike might have some usefulness in SAR but it would be
rather limited.  Actual search while riding would probably be
limited mostly to trails (and then only to some of the better
trails).  Off-trail riding would require so much attention that 
the rider would not be able to spend much time watching for clues.  
The speed of the bike would also be a disadvantage since the rider 
wouldn't have much time to spot clues as he goes by.  (Try looking 
for footprints while avoiding trees, rocks and potholes on a bike.) 
Except in very easy terrain I think most actual searching is best 
done on foot (or maybe horseback).

Where a bike could be helpful is getting to the actual search area.
Often this can be miles from the trailhead.  Of course you would 
have to plan your search to return to wherever you leave the bikes.

Helicopters, if available, beat the snot out of bikes for either
transportation or trail searching.
From: smmyers@pbhyg.PacBell.COM (Sean M. Myers)
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
Subject: Re: Re: Moose, Elk and other assorted beast.
Date: 20 Aug 92 19:48:57 GMT
Reply-To: smmyers@PacBell.COM (Sean M. Myers)
Organization: Pacific * Bell, San Ramon, CA


     O.K., everybody who gets Backpacker magazine and is confused about the 
elk/moose/wapiti thing, look in the back.

     There is an article about the Wapiti (elk).



-+=+--+=+--+=+--+=+--+=+--+=+--+=+--+=+--+=+--+=+--+=+--+=+--+=+--+=+--+=+-
+ Sean M. Myers (smmyers@pbhyg.PacBell.COM)|                              +
= Systems Analyst                          |                              =
+ Operator Services                        |    THIS SPACE FOR RENT...    +
= Software Engineering and Maintenance     |                              =
+ Pacific Bell (SRV complex) CA. USA       |                              +
-+=+--+=+--+=+--+=+--+=+--+=+--+=+--+=+--+=+--+=+--+=+--+=+--+=+--+=+--+=+-
From: donehoo@strobe.ATC.Olivetti.Com (Doyle Donehoo)
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
Subject: Re: WAS: Mono Pass...     BEARS! (Oh my!)
Date: 21 Aug 92 17:01:58 GMT
Organization: Olivetti ATC; Cupertino CA, USA

In article <14180@auspex-gw.auspex.com> johnf@Auspex.COM (John Fereira) writes:
>They just wanted to trap him and tag him.  While 
>tranquilized they also pulled a tooth (I guess bears get cavities too). 

In most cases, when a bear is tagged, they also pull a tooth to determine
exact age.

They have pretty much given up on relocating bears as unworkable, while
maintaining a "behave yourself or else be destroyed" attitude. I did hear
from someone/ranger south of Yosemite complaining that Yosemite would
sneak in problem bears via chopper at night, thereby dumping their problem
on them, but this may be outdated storytelling.

+----------------------------------------------------------------------+
|"Man has got astray out of his orbit, or away from the ends for which |
| he was created." John Muir.                                          |
+----------------------------------------------------------------------+

Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
From: AS.MSW@forsythe.stanford.edu (Marc Whitney)
Subject: Re: Oregon Wallowas
Organization: Stanford University, California, USA
Distribution: usa
Date: Fri, 21 Aug 1992 23:21:02 GMT

In article <134037@lll-winken.LLNL.GOV>,
dovey@renoir.llnl.gov (Donald Dovey) writes:
>
>> |I think Wayne's argument was not about aesthetics but was that horses make
>> |the wilderness smaller...
>>
>> I must disagree.  This is indeed an aesthetic argument.
>
I don't know about Wayne but from the trails I've seen there is more
than "aesthetics" involved.  I've seen quite a few cases of
serious erosion that I've never seen on a humans only trail.  With a
short growing season in Alpine terraine I suspect that casual
grazing has considerable impact as well.
From: griffin@frith.egr.msu.edu (Danny Griffin)
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
Subject: Re: MSR Stoves - Whisperlite Int'l. vs. X-
Date: 20 Aug 92 01:18:28 GMT
Organization: Michigan State University


My Peak 1 doesn't leak, even when carried without releasing the pressure.

-- 
Dan Griffin
griffin@egr.msu.edu
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
From: rbw3q@helga9.acc.Virginia.EDU (Robert B. Whitehurst)
Subject: Re: Comments on Yellowstone
Organization: University of Virginia
Distribution: na
Date: Fri, 14 Aug 1992 15:29:20 GMT

In article <1992Aug14.130810.10904@cis.ohio-state.edu> ray@skink.cis.ohio-state.edu (william c ray) writes:
>This just in from a friend who has just returned from his
>first trip to the american west, uploaded with permission
>for your amusement(?)...
>
[Deleted observations of tourons @ Old Faithful]
>
>--- Craig

	My most tragi-comic memory of Yellowstone was at Old Faithful
also.  Some years ago (OK, 11 yrs., ok?) friends and I were
backpacking Yellowstone in late June, and had been on the trail 5-6
days.  We were ending the hike at Old Faithful, planning on hitching
back to the car, left at another trailhead.  It was cool, and had
snowed on us a couple of times, but the last morning, it cut loose
with a very respectable snowstorm.  It wasn't real cold, and we were
equipped to enjoy it, but by the time we got to O.F., the snow was
definitely accumulating, and we were toting little drifts on the tops
of our packs.  As we march up to the visitor center, looking a bit
scrungy, I hear a rather underdressed touron remark to wife, "Boy,
you'd never catch me doing that, they must be cold!"  To which we
remarked (looking a bit raffish) that we were dressed and comfy,
compared to his Bermuda shorts.
	At the center, there were many shorts-clad touri ("summer
vacation", right?!) dashing from 'Bagos to center, waiting for O.F. to
blow.  A couple of minutes before, they all dash to the geyser,
snapping shots of the white steam blowing into the (white) snow-filled
sky.  Very amusing.
	Well, we managed to get a driver to the car, load up, and
squeak out of the North entrance, just as the last pass was being
closed due to snow.  Loads of fun!
Brad

-- 

Brad Whitehurst    |   Aerospace Research Lab
rbw3q@Virginia.EDU |   We like it hot...and fast.
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
From: dencisco@eos.arc.nasa.gov (David Paul Encisco)
Subject: Re: Oregon Wallowas...pack animals
Keywords: alpine lakes - where?
Organization: NASA Ames Research Center
Distribution: usa
Date: Thu, 13 Aug 1992 22:32:56 GMT

stjohn@newton.Colorado.EDU (MATTHEW STJOHN) writes:

>I talked to a ranger one 
>time about this and he said that many eastern senators think that 
>pack animals are natural so they should be allowed in the back 
>country.

Yeah and those burros left behind in Death Valley by the miners
have been consider indigenous to the land as well!

Speaking of human forsaken trash, someone I know was just threaten
with a felony for disturbance and removal of an ancient neglected
Boy Scout camp's garbage dump in the Marble Mountains (CA). The Rangers
let him go when he convinced them that he only wanted to clean up
the site and his intentions were to dispose of the contents in the
Ranger's garbage can. His mistake was that he thought he was doing
a good deed by telling the Rangers about the site. I know this will
unnerve the archeologist out there, but human trash is trash
regardless of its age. We're not talking Native American pottery
shards and arrowheads, we're talking rusty Spam cans and glass
from broken Coke bottles. I'm always amazed at the amount of stuff
that was buried (and now exposed due to erosion) when I happen
upon one of these sites. I support anyone (including ancient relic
hunters) who will haul out anything left behind by humans in the
back country. It's garbage to me and I didn't go there to see it!

Dave
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
From: R1SCM@VM1.CC.UAKRON.EDU (Dr. Steven C. Myers)
Subject: Dolly Sods National Wilderness Area
Organization: The University of Akron
Date: Fri, 21 Aug 1992 09:38:09 GMT

I am taking a troop of 10 YOUNG scouts (mostly 11-12) into the
Dolly Sods NWA in West Virginia at the end of Sept.  Does anyone
have any paticular info or experiences that they might want to
share about the area.  While there we may venture into the
Otter Creek NWA, Seneca Rocks (1000' vertical climb - not for me!)
one or two of the caverns.  I am told that along a very narrow
band at the top of the ridge, the tundra is similar to that
of northern Canada.  Anything there I should be well informed about
so I can teach the boys?
 
Why 11 year olds in the wilderness and not closer and safer to home?
Well we going to make these guys REAL campers.
 
Steve Myers
SM Troop 1, Akron OH
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
From: JB <jbl@mesaadm.cre.nt.com>
Subject: Re: Fontana Dam
Organization: NT/BNR
X-Useragent: Nuntius v1.1b3
Date: Tue, 18 Aug 1992 19:33:10 GMT

In article <1992Aug18.172249.15136@cis.ohio-state.edu> gregory adkins,
akins@cis.ohio-state.edu writes:
>A few days ago someone posted a reply to a request for camping
>areas along the East Coast.  The reply suggested Fontana Dam
>which was "south of there".  Since I did not see the original 
>posting, I do not know where there is.
>
>Could someone give me more exact locations.  E-mail please.

Sorry, no e-mail capabilities.  Fontana Dam is in the western part on
North Carolina on the Southern edge of the Great Smoky Mountains NP. 
Loosely, at the intersection created if you drew a line west from
Asheville, NC and south from Knoxville, TN.  I would suggest contacting
GSM NP  or the AT commission for camping area information. The dam is a
TVA project and is part of the AT.
From: french@cs.yorku.ca (Lori French)
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
Subject: Re: Backcountry Coffee:  Heresy!!!!!!
Date: 14 Aug 92 17:11:31 GMT
Article-I.D.: yetti.1399
Distribution: world
Organization: York University, Dept. of Comp. Sci. - Toronto

In article <1992Aug14.115948.18885@brtph560.bnr.ca>, jbl@mesaadm.cre.nt.com (JB) writes:
|> Am I to infer from all the previous furor that I am the only trekker to
|> use (oh God, do I dare say the word.....shudder) INSTANT coffee?????

It's safe to come out of the instant coffee closet.  I too use instant
coffee in the backcountry.  In fact, when I am home and longing to be
in the woods, I just have a cup of instant and my mind wanders off to
the last camping trip I went on.  Besides, with instant you don't have
to worry about packing a coffee maker or percolator.  
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
From: AS.MSW@forsythe.stanford.edu (Marc Whitney)
Subject: Re: accessible = !wilderness
Organization: Stanford University, California, USA
Distribution: usa
Date: Thu, 20 Aug 1992 16:44:53 GMT

In article <Bt949p.3GF@news.dtc.hp.com>,
chris@cdc.hp.com (Chris Schiller) writes:
>Allen Sanderson (allen%asylum.cs.utah.edu@cs.utah.edu) wrote:
>> In article AS.MSW@forsythe.stanford.edu (Marc Whitney) writes:
>> >There is also an extreme position that is rarely considered:  Total
>> >closure of an area to all humans, even backpackers and day hikers.
>> >I'm actually in favor of this, at least for finite periods.
>>
>> They actually do this in some areas under the label of research
>> natural area.  The only people who legally have access to these areas
>> are researchers.  There is one that bourders SLC.  The only time they
>> open it up is during deer season and for good reason.  The fences are
>> so high that deer can not get in nor out in most places.  Thus the
>> deer population has to be keep in check or the natural grass land in
>> the area would be destroyed.  For once, man as a preditor is good.
>>
>> Allen R. Sanderson
>
>
>Whoa, hold on a minute.  I don't mean to flame, but it sounds like
>just another case of humans screwing with an ecosystem, and then
>trying to steer it back to what humans think is an equalibrium.
>If there were not fences, then the deer could expand/migrate as
>needed.  In addition, if all of the predators had not been destroyed
>or fenced out, there would never have been a "problem".  As usual,
>man the controller is bad.
>
Right.  I'll also bet that it the fences were taken down and
predators re-introduced there would be all sorts of screaming about
deprevation of the "game supply".  IMHO, deer can take care of
themselves.  They are animal weeds.  They are nearly impossible to
get rid of and thrive in semi-rural area.  I have aunts and sisters
who are constantly gripping about how they can't keep the deer out
of their roses and their vineyards.  But then just suggest that they
ought to stop setting poison bat for coyotes, wolves, etc. and
listen to the protests.
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
From: jreece@sousa.intel.com (John Reece)
Subject: Re: So why not use unleaded gas in a Whisperlight XGK?
Reply-To: jreece@sousa.intel.com
Organization: Intel - Information Technologies
Distribution: usa
Date: Thu, 20 Aug 1992 16:02:34 GMT

In article <1708pvINN5cb@agate.berkeley.edu>, bwood@diva.Berkeley.EDU (Blake Philip Wood) writes:
> I recently threw out my old Bluet stove and got a Whisperlight XGK.
> I was very pleased with it's performance on a recent 4-day 
> hike in the Pecos Wilderness of NM.  This stove is meant to burn
> white gas.  

The MSR XGK is a multi-fuel stove with a rigid fuel pipe.  The MSR
Whisperlite has a flexible, bronzed fuel hose, and is more compact.

> I used unleaded from the local brand-x station.
> The literature that came with the stove doesn't say not to use
> unleaded, but the REI catalog specifically mentions to never use
> unleaded gas in a white gas stove, and there have also been several
> comments to that effect in this newsgroup.

There are a bunch of other additives in unleaded gasoline that
will eventually cause clogging problems with the jet.  It may not
happen for a number of hours of operation, though.  White gas is
supposed to be more shelf-stable (or is it the other way around).
I know it's exorbitant, especially since it's made by *not* adding
a lot of gunk that goes into auto gas, but for what you're likely to 
use over a few years the price difference isn't really significant.

------------------------------------------------------------------------
John Reece			"Oop. Ack. Pfffthpt"	
Not an Intel spokesman 			- Bill the Cat 
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
From: maha@elaine15.Stanford.EDU (lakshminarayanan mahadevan)
Subject: MSR Stoves - Whisperlite Int'l. vs. X-GK II
Organization: DSG, Stanford University
Distribution: usa
Date: 15 Aug 92 20:40:36


Hi,
	I am trying to make up my mind about buying a good stove that can be
used in Asia, Africa and S. America with a variety of fuels. While the X-GKII
is capable of burning almost anything (including varnish!), it is considerably
more expensive ($79) than the Whisperlite International ($56) which
burns keroosine besides White gas. As far as design goes, I find the
Coleman multifuel Peak I ($36) most appealing because it is just one piece. 
Can anyone advice me on the the pros and cons of these stoves.
	Thanks,
	Maha
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry