HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: mjarvis@nyx.cs.du.edu (Michael Jarvis)
Subject: Re: Colorado Ski Report
X-Disclaimer: Nyx is a public access Unix system run by the University
	of Denver for the Denver community.  The University has neither
	control over nor responsibility for the opinions of users.
Organization: Nyx, Public Access Unix at U. of Denver Math/CS dept.
Date: Sat, 9 Jan 93 04:25:21 GMT

In article <1993Jan9.020244.17061@mnemosyne.cs.du.edu> awestrop@nyx.cs.du.edu (Alan Westrope) writes:
>In article <1993Jan9.011106.15234@mnemosyne.cs.du.edu> aburt@mnemosyne.cs.du.edu (Andrew Burt) writes:
          [Deleted Andrew's proposal to create a new newsgroup to discuss
           Colorado's second amendment...]
>>
>>All those in favor?  Opposed?
>>
>	In favor of the newsgroup; opposed to the $@#*& amendment!


Well, from what I've heard, I WOULD have been opposed to the amendment,
that is, if I lived in Colorado...=)

I'm in favor of the newsgroup, simply because I don't care to hear any more
about it.  If I lived in Colorado I would have been against it, but since
I'm not, I'm really not interested in following the discussion....sorry! 
(No flames, please!) I just think that it DOES merit its own group, for those
who wish to continue to discuss it.  IMHO, I don't think it belongs in some of
the groups that this discussion is being carried in.


--
===============================================================================
*  Michael A. Jarvis    | Internet:  mjarvis@nyx.cs.du.edu  CI$:  70562,212   *
*  Oklahoma City, OK    |  Fidonet:  Michael Jarvis, 1:147/2051               *
===============================================================================
Newsgroups: co.general,rec.skiing,rec.travel,nyx.misc,du.general,bit.listserv.travel-l
From: altinbay@netcom.com (John Altinbay)
Subject: Re: Colorado Ski Report
Organization: Netcom Online Communications Services (408-241-9760 login: guest)
Date: Wed, 6 Jan 1993 04:50:37 GMT

In article <1993Jan5.195532.10202@mnemosyne.cs.du.edu> kschwab@nyx.cs.du.edu (Kerry Schwab) writes:
>
>Don't try to be logical with radicals. It's obvious they'd rather have
>seperate legislation for *each* and *every* group that could possibly be 
>discriminated against.
>

You forgot the smiley.

>I'm anxiously awaiting the "Humpback Asthmatic Lesbians" equality act..
>

And you're calling someone else a radical.

>People also seem to forget that some of the cities *in* Colorado that
>supported their cause ( however misguided ) were FORCED by the State's
>act to change that.  I think boycotting the cities probably hurts the 
>individual cities that originally supported anti-discrimation laws,
>and hurts the "guilty" State much less as a whole.
>
>--
>Kerry Schwab
>(digging thru the archives for that damn hate-mail filter)


-- 
John Altinbay   -   altinbay@netcom.com
===============================================================
There's a spirit that guides me, a light that shines for me
My life is worth the living, I don't need to see the end.
From: mjs@fc.hp.com (Marc Sabatella)
Newsgroups: co.general
Subject: Re: Ammendment 2 on disk?
Date: 5 Jan 1993 17:04:01 GMT
Organization: Hewlett-Packard Company
Reply-To: marc@hpmonk.fc.hp.com
NNTP-Posting-Host: hptrane.fc.hp.com
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1.4 PL6]

Ken Wyatt (kenw@col.hp.com) wrote:
: 
: A friend of mine has requested the actual wording of Ammendment 2.
: 
: Does anyone have this on disk, or can otherwise e-mail it to me?

[ emailed as well ]

    Neither the State of Colorado, through any of its branches or departments,
    nor any of its agencies, political subdivisions, municipalities or school
    districts, shall enact, adopt or enforce any statute, regulation,
    ordinance or policy whereby homosexual, lesbian, or bisexual orientation,
    conduct, practices or relationships shall constitute or otherwise be the
    basis of, or entitle any person or class of persons to have or claim any
    minority status, quota preferences, protected status or claim of
    discrimination.  This Section of the Constitution shall be in all respects
    self-executing.

--
Marc Sabatella
marc@hpmonk.fc.hp.com
--
Amendment 2 Is Legalized Discrimination - Shame On You, Colorado
--
"Neither the State of Colorado ... nor any of its municipalities ... shall ...
 enforce any ... ordinance ... whereby homosexual, lesbian, or bisexual
 orientation ... shall ... be the basis of ... any ... claim of discrimination"
--
All opinions expressed herein are my personal ones
and do not necessarily reflect those of HP or anyone else.
Newsgroups: co.general,rec.skiing,rec.travel,nyx.misc,du.general,bit.list,alt.config
From: twpierce@unix.amherst.edu (Tim Pierce)
Subject: Re: Colorado Ski Report
Followup-To: alt.config
Organization: Elitist Usenet Administrators, Stuff and Nonsense Division
Date: Sat, 9 Jan 1993 01:55:08 GMT

Followups from a ridiculous assortment of newsgroups to alt.config.

In article <1993Jan9.011106.15234@mnemosyne.cs.du.edu> aburt@mnemosyne.cs.du.edu (Andrew Burt) writes:

>Since co.politics.amend2.info isn't carried as widely as it could be
>(since most sites outside the state have no interest in co.*), I'd like
>to suggest the creation of alt.politics.colorado.amend2.  (talk.* might
>be better, but I doubt we want to go through all the red tape to make a
>talk group.)

Give me a good reason not to alias it to alt.politics.homosexuality,
which is doing a marvelous job of soaking up the Amendment 2 runoff.

In any case, a better choice would be alt.current-events.amend2,
although still better would be something in us.*.

(Count this a vote in opposition, in general.)

-- 
____ Tim Pierce                / 
\  / twpierce@unix.amherst.edu /               Rocks say goodbye.
 \/ (BITnet: TWPIERCE@AMHERST) / 
Newsgroups: co.general
From: kauff@neit.cgd.ucar.edu (Brian Kauffman)
Subject: Re: Colorado Ski Report, etc., etc., etc.
Organization: NCAR, Boulder CO
Distribution: co
Date: Fri, 8 Jan 1993 16:54:38 GMT

> = rosinski@isis.cgd.ucar.edu (Jim Rosinski) writes:
------------------------------------------------------------------------
> I see no reason why you should feel threatened by homosexuals.  On the other
> hand, always fear laws ostensibly designed to protect "rights", which in fact
> act to deny freedom of association.  Do you *really* want the government
> telling businesses who they must hire or otherwise associate with?

Do you mean, like, Jews, Japanese, Blacks & females?
In a general setting, why should religion/race/skin-color/sex be an 
unacceptable criteria for hiring/firing while sexual orientation is 
an acceptable criteria?

-Brian
Newsgroups: co.general
From: ejh@khonshu.colorado.edu (Edward J. Hartnett)
Subject: Poor poor CU coaching staff
Organization: CIRES, University of Colorado
Distribution: co
Date: 4 Jan 93 16:45:54


I read in the paper last Sunday that CU coach Bill is upset because
his assistant coaches can't bring their families to away games. The
article also mentioned that they (the assistant coaches) get $2000
bonus a year for going to away games, in addition to their usual pay.
But Bill also wants the school to pay for the families to be flown,
and, presumably, put up in hotels for away games. He also wants to put
a dome over Folsom Field.

I must admire the gall of this man to be complaining about this in a
time of fiscal crisis for the University. It brings to mind once again
the disgusting waste of student and taxpayer money that CU indulges
in. I don't understand why people put up with it.

Well, I just wanted to bring it up, in hopes that more people who now
support the expenditure of millions of dollars on the Buffs might
wonder for a moment if the money might not be better spent, and if the
Buffs and coaching staff need to be funded so lavishly.

I hope others will join me in occasional letters to Albino and other
state officials, expressing disapproval of the lack of restraint in
spending on sports at CU.

					Ed Hartnett
--
	Don't blame me, I voted against Amendment 2!

Edward Hartnett				ejh@khonshu.colorado.edu

Newsgroups: co.general,rec.skiing,rec.travel,nyx.misc,du.general,bit.listserv.travel-l
From: zstewart@nyx.cs.du.edu (Zhahai Stewart)
Subject: Re: Colorado Ski Report
X-Disclaimer: Nyx is a public access Unix system run by the University
	of Denver for the Denver community.  The University has neither
	control over nor responsibility for the opinions of users.
Organization: Nyx, Public Access Unix at U. of Denver Math/CS dept.
Date: Fri, 8 Jan 93 00:26:11 GMT

>WHY WHY WHY is anyone who has any kind of feelings against gay people or even
>gay rights (there is a difference you know!) get labeled homophobic?

Basically because that term caught on culturally, and it expresses one of
the most common manifestations of heterosexism (prejudice based on sexual
orientation).  You can mentally substitute "heterosexist" if you prefer.

>I certainly do not believe that gays should have minority status or
>special rights but I certainly dont FEAR gay people!  

No, what homophobics fear is homosexuality; in some not-rare cases, they fear
that they might have something of that sort deeply buried in their own psyches.

Gays have no "minority status" (a fuzzy phrase from a fuzzy mind, anyway), nor
special rights, nor is there any being sought, so far as I can tell.  The only
goal legislatively is equally applied non-discrimination protection.  Where
did you get the fantasy that there were special rights involved?  Wrong.

>Next thing you
>know, there will be affirmative action laws for gays.....  What is this
>world comming to besides an end?

I don't know of anyone seeking affirmative action for gays.  I think that is
a bogeyman of your own mind (and those who think as you do), and that it
reveals more about you than about gay rights.
From: alexm@teal.csn.org (Alex Matthews)
Subject: IBM PC for sale
Followup-To: misc.forsale.computers
Organization: Colorado SuperNet, Inc.
Distribution: na
Date: Wed, 6 Jan 1993 21:49:20 GMT

For sale:

         ** IBM-PC ('84)  **  

          - 64k RAM (expandable to 640k) 
          - 360k 5.25" floppy drive

   includes:
          - keyboard
          - monitor (NEC monochrome)
          - printer (Okidata u92 microline)
          - internal 1200 bps modem
          - software: DOS 3.1, Wordstar, PC-VT, Multi-Mate
          - original manuals

This machine has been lightly used.  As is, it is a good no-frills 
word processor and terminal.  I am in Boulder, CO.  Email me if 
you're interested, and make me an offer.
-- 
- Alex Matthews  (new address: alexm.csn.org)

  "A typical Grand Prix race.  High noon.  Tension mounts.  Throttles clench."
                        Patricia Zonker, _Murdercycles_
From: kenw@col.hp.com (Ken Wyatt)
Newsgroups: co.general
Subject: Ammendment 2 on disk?
Date: 4 Jan 1993 22:43:02 GMT
Organization: HP Colorado Springs Division
NNTP-Posting-Host: hpcsql.col.hp.com



A friend of mine has requested the actual wording of Ammendment 2.

Does anyone have this on disk, or can otherwise e-mail it to me?

Thanks!

Ken  (kenw@col.hp.com)
Newsgroups: co.general,rec.skiing,rec.travel
From: drew@ophelia.cs.colorado.edu (Drew Eckhardt)
Subject: Re: Colorado amendment 2 information / boycott
Organization: University of Colorado at Boulder
Distribution: co
Date: Mon, 11 Jan 1993 06:57:28 GMT

In article <1993Jan10.032748.21387@mercury.cair.du.edu> elesatz@diana.cair.du.edu (Eric LeSatz) writes:
>In article <1ifkj2INNoat@hpfcbig.sde.hp.com> marc@hpmonk.fc.hp.com writes:
>
>>a Moslem from a Jew by looking at him/her?  Can you tell a married person from
>>a single person?  No?  Then why do we allow laws against discrimination based
>>on religious belief or marital status?  Why doesn't the amendment apply
>
>Hate to differ with you, but I'm paying higher auto insurance rates
>because I am a single male, under 25 years old. I'm clearly being
>discriminated against because of my marital status, sex and age, but
>you don't hear me crying about it.

Insurance is a gamble for the issuers.  They take odds on a given 
segment of the population, and set rates based on how often and 
how much they have to pay out.  Since young, unmarried males have 
the highest accident rates, they pay the highest premiums .  Seems 
fair enough to me that drivers with a lower chance of having an 
accident don't have to pay for statistically worse drivers.

>I think most homosexuals are just a bunch of paranoid _____. Just like
>they will label me as "homophobic" because of my last sentence.  Well,
>if homosexuals are in such bad shape, being fired all the time, etc.
>how come they are above average in income? This brings up the point
>that there should be laws that reduce the number of homosexuals in
>high level positions so that heterosexual income will be more equal to
>homosexual income. 

After that, we can pass laws insuring that undereducated McDonalds 
workers make the same as MD's.  We can throw you out of school to make 
room for blacks, hispanics, and other minorities since they're under 
represented.  Equality isn't about equal results, it's about equal 
oportunity, people of all races, sexes, religious creeds, sexual
orientations being able to compete on the basis of merit alone.
Are you afraid that you aren't competitive in this environment?

>But no, you and the media don't want to hear that
>do ya? 

They make more money than you, and there fore you should be afraid of 
them.  Sounds just like Hitler's Nazzi propaganda.

>You just want to hear the one in a million horror story about
>the poor person who was fired because he was gay. But then you never
>hear about the nice settlement that the company gives the homosexual
>in question when he/she files a lawsuit.

If a gay wins a discrimination lawsuit, in the eyes of the court 
they are in the right, and the company is in the wrong.  Why wouldn't
they deserve whatever settlement they get?

-- 
Boycott AT&T for their absurd anti-BSDI lawsuit. | Drew Eckhardt
Condemn Colorado for Amendment Two.		 | drew@cs.colorado.edu
Use Linux, the fast, flexible, and free 386 unix |  
Newsgroups: co.general
From: rosinski@isis.cgd.ucar.edu (Jim Rosinski)
Subject: Re: Colorado amendment 2 information / boycott
Organization: Climate and Global Dynamics Division/NCAR, Boulder, CO
Distribution: co
Date: Wed, 13 Jan 1993 00:36:49 GMT

I wrote:

>: But maybe he *should* have a case.  To those of you squawking about how
>: terrible "discrimination" is: Do you have an answer to the question Eric 
>: implied: Why is it "bad" to discriminate against someone because they are 
>: black, gay, or female, but "ok" to discriminate against someone because they
>: are male, under 25, or single?  Hint: "Because the law says what it does",
>: as Marc essentially answers above, is not sufficient.

marc@hpmonk.fc.hp.com (Marc Sabatella) responds:

>If you think there should
>be nondiscrimination policies in insurance rates, you'll have to take that up
>with the state insurance commission, for starters.  I'm sure many have tried
>this before, but to no avail - it is relatively easy to prove there is a sound
>reason to charge males under 25 more than others.

If so, the reason is always statistical (ask anyone in the insurance
industry how actuarial tables are set up).  Are you therefore suggesting
that it is OK to discriminate against gays if a statistical correlation can
be positively identified between, say, being gay and having the AIDS virus?
Or to discriminate against blacks because they are statistically more likely
to commit crimes?  Note that this is not a hypothetical question.  Such
correlations do exist.

In order to convince me, and I suspect many others, of the soundness of your
arguments against Amendment 2, you must reconcile the perceived ethical
inconsistency between the two positions: "It should be illegal to
discriminate against blacks, gays, and females"; and "It is OK for insurance
companies to discriminate against singles, those under age 25, and males
because there is a good reason for it".


Jim Rosinski

Newsgroups: co.general,rec.skiing,rec.travel,nyx.misc,du.general,bit.listserv.travel-l
From: kevin@traffic.den.mmc.com (Kevin Rodgers)
Subject: Re: Colorado Ski Report
Organization: Martin Marietta Western Internal Systems, Technical Operations
Date: Tue, 5 Jan 1993 22:49:17 GMT

In article <1993Jan5.180612.23341@tigger.jvnc.net> lee%polarsun@rna.rockefeller.edu writes:
>ecl@cbnewsj.cb.att.com (Evelyn C. Leeper) writes:
>>>                               COLORADO SKI REPORT
>>>                   "Colorado, Where else would you want to ski?"
>
>>Someplace that didn't have a constitutional amendment stripping gays,
>>lesbians, and bisexuals of their civil rights?
>
> Or how about a place where its not acceptable to grant special
>treatment and priviledges to certain groups of individuals.

Well, there's the problem: the amendment conflated the disallowance of
protected status legislation and the disallowance of anti-discrimination
legislation.
-- 
Kevin Rodgers				kevin@traffic.den.mmc.com
Martin Marietta MS A16401		(303) 790-3971
116 Inverness Dr. East
Englewood CO 80112 USA			GO BUFFS!
Newsgroups: co.general,rec.skiing,rec.travel
From: liz@heh.cgd.ucar.edu (Liz Coolbaugh)
Subject: Re: Amendment 2 Yet Again (was Re: Colorado Ski Report)
Organization: Climate and Global Dynamics Division/NCAR, Boulder, CO
Date: Wed, 6 Jan 1993 20:29:12 GMT

>Obviously the spirit that guides you is not the Holy Spirit.  No 
>self-respecting Christian would openly support a life style such
>as homosexuality. 
>-- 
>
>==============================================================================
>DPS
>==============================================================================

Many self-respecting Christians do.  I don't have a bible in my office
to quote from, but what about not looking for the speck in your
neighbor's eye before casting out the log in your own?  Even if you
believe that homosexuality is a sin, that doesn't give you the right
to judge other people for their sins, unless you can claim to be
without sin yourself.  After all, isn't God to be the judge, not you?

Liz Coolbaugh

*******************************************************************************
God can inspire people to write holy verse, but he can't keep human beings
from making typos.

Newsgroups: co.general
From: steele@isis.cgd.ucar.edu (Alfred Steele)
Subject: Rocky Mountain Next User's Group
Organization: Climate and Global Dynamics Division/NCAR, Boulder, CO
Distribution: co
Date: Fri, 8 Jan 1993 21:45:47 GMT


WHAT: Rocky Mountain NeXT User's Group Meeting
WHEN: Wednesday, January 13, 7:00pm
WHERE: Random Access, 8000 East Iliff Ave, Denver

- The Rocky Mountain NeXT User's Group would like to invite you to  
our January gathering. It will be held at Random Access in south east  
Denver (see directions below).

SPEAKER: Clifford Matthews, president and founder of ARDI.

TOPIC: Cliff will be demoing Word 5.1, Excel 4.0, and a few games  
(Lemmings, Crystal Quest, Prince of Persia and who knows what else).   
He'll show us what's going to be in Executor 1.3 and discuss some  
stories about ARDI's early existence. For those that don't know,  
Executor is a Mac emulator for the NeXT.

DIRECTIONS -

>From I-25 take the Evans exit east. Evans is south of the Colorado  
Blvd exit and north of the Hampden Ave exit. After approximately 2  
miles, Evans jags and becomes Iliff, go .5 miles farther and it will  
be on your right across from the White Glove Hand Car Wash.
Newsgroups: co.general,rec.skiing,rec.travel,nyx.misc,du.general,bit.listserv.travel-l
From: dunbar@boulder.Colorado.EDU (S Dunbar)
Subject: Re: Colorado Ski Report, for real
Organization: University of Colorado, Boulder
Date:  6 Jan 93 23:06:20 GMT

I must protest, this is not the news group for this topic, i did vote no
on 2, but still love the state of colorado and all it has to offer.  
Please dont waste rec.travel with this stuff, use another news group
i think there  is one that just was started last week alt.politics.colorado
something like that.  lets keep rec.travel what it is supposed to be and your
opinions of politics to the other groups


Scott Dunbar
 
Scott\      /\/\  /|email: dunbar@boulder.colorado.edu
  /***\  /\/*/**\/*|Department of Molecular, Cellular, and Developmental Biology
 /  /\ \/**\/    \ |University of Colorado at Boulder, Boulder, CO  80309-0347
Newsgroups: co.general,rec.skiing,rec.travel,nyx.misc,du.general,bit.list,alt.config
From: awestrop@nyx.cs.du.edu (Alan Westrope)
Subject: Re: Colorado Ski Report
X-Disclaimer: Nyx is a public access Unix system run by the University
	of Denver for the Denver community.  The University has neither
	control over nor responsibility for the opinions of users.
Organization: Nyx, Public Access Unix at U. of Denver Math/CS dept.
Date: Sat, 9 Jan 93 02:02:44 GMT

In article <1993Jan9.011106.15234@mnemosyne.cs.du.edu> aburt@mnemosyne.cs.du.edu (Andrew Burt) writes:
>Since co.politics.amend2.info isn't carried as widely as it could be
>(since most sites outside the state have no interest in co.*), I'd like
>to suggest the creation of alt.politics.colorado.amend2.  (talk.* might
>be better, but I doubt we want to go through all the red tape to make a
>talk group.)
>
>Since it has become the focus of national attention (and rightly so), I
>think it merits a group.  It can also help inform everyone what exactly
>the deal is, and why this is such a bad amendment.
>
>All those in favor?  Opposed?
>
	In favor of the newsgroup; opposed to the $@#*& amendment!

--
| Alan Westrope          | "You will have the tallest, darkest, leading man  |
| awestrop@nyx.cs.du.edu |  in Hollywood." -- Merian C. Cooper to Fay Wray   |
                                                                            -- 
Newsgroups: co.general,rec.skiing,rec.travel,nyx.misc,du.general,bit.listserv.travel-l
From: tlode@nyx.cs.du.edu (trygve lode)
Subject: Re: Colorado Ski Report
Organization: Nyx, Public Access Unix @ U. of Denver Math/CS dept.
Date: Tue, 5 Jan 93 00:49:39 GMT

In article <1993Jan4.230717.3233@aio.jsc.nasa.gov> smith@lurch.jsc.nasa.gov writes:
>
>I'm happy to say that I AM skiing in Colorado in March, BECAUSE the 
>amendment was passed.  I won't have to worry about gay men staring at
>me while I am using the restroom (hopefully all gay men will boycott
>Colorado).

#whiney_voice(ON)

"Mommy!  He's looking at me!"

Seriously, though, I really don't think you need to worry--the gay men
I know have at least reasonably high standards.... 

>BTW, if gay men can use the same restroom as me, then why can't I use
>the women's restroom.

Ah, because that machine against the wall is too complicated for you?

Trygve 
Xref: sparky co.general:2347 rec.skiing:9134 rec.travel:17224
From: mjs@fc.hp.com (Marc Sabatella)
Newsgroups: co.general,rec.skiing,rec.travel
Subject: Re: Colorado Ski Report
Date: 5 Jan 1993 20:22:49 GMT
Organization: Hewlett-Packard Company
Reply-To: marc@hpmonk.fc.hp.com
NNTP-Posting-Host: hptrane.fc.hp.com
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1.4 PL6]

>>>                   "Colorado, Where else would you want to ski?"
>
>>Someplace that didn't have a constitutional amendment stripping gays,
>>lesbians, and bisexuals of their civil rights?
>
> Or how about a place where its not acceptable to grant special
>treatment and priviledges to certain groups of individuals.

I'm not aware of any such place.  Every single state, county, and municipality
in the US that I know of has laws on the books protecting some groups from
discrimination.  Usually, the laws protect on the basis of race and/or gender;
often, religious beliefs and marital status; occasionally, sexual orientation.
Colorado is the only state in the history of the Union ever to explicitly
single out a group of citizens and constitutionally forbid them from obtaining
any civil rights protections.

--
Marc Sabatella
marc@hpmonk.fc.hp.com
--
Amendment 2 Is Legalized Discrimination - Shame On You, Colorado
--
"Neither the State of Colorado ... nor any of its municipalities ... shall ...
 enforce any ... ordinance ... whereby homosexual, lesbian, or bisexual
 orientation ... shall ... be the basis of ... any ... claim of discrimination"
--
All opinions expressed herein are my personal ones
and do not necessarily reflect those of HP or anyone else.