HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: delbaeth@cqs.washington.edu (Robert Christ)
Subject: No 8x rule?
Keywords: Rankscum!
Organization: University of Washington
Date: Tue, 15 Dec 1992 19:17:55 GMT


I had a look at the plan file on netrek@bronco.ece.cmu and came across
these two entries:

Fleet Captains
 61 Helix             428.94   1604  1.39 29216  0.99 10589  1.02 1458.02
 62 awk               402.58    885  0.82 33166  1.20  9967  1.02 1221.83


"Hmmmm", I said to myself, "why haven't these chaps made Commodore?"
(I may not have actually used the word "chaps") I checked bronco and
found that Mr. Helix was actually playing at the time.  I threw myself
into the wait queue and, well, waited.  Eventually I made it in to ask
the burning question.

Oe->Fa Why arn't you a commodore?
Fa->Oe There is no 8x rule

Needless to say, I was crushed.  My dreams of Admiral on 16x DI came 
crumbling down.  I checked through the whole list (well, I spent over 30
seconds looking at it) and I believe these are the only two characters
effected by the no 8x rule.  Anyone know why the multiple DI rule
only goes to 4x?  Anyone else want to see it continue to 8x and 16x (and
32x as I play in more 8 hour homeworld AGRI LPSes).
  rob
From: trown@ecst.csuchico.edu (Nick Trown)
Newsgroups: rec.games.netrek
Subject: Re: Hosers roasting on an open fire...
Keywords: Gerbil toastie
Date: 19 Dec 92 21:42:02 GMT
Organization: California State University, Chico
NNTP-Posting-Host: grotus.ecst.csuchico.edu

In article <1992Dec17.213024@cs.bham.ac.uk> aqw@cs.bham.ac.uk (Andy Williams) writes:
>
>Barf:-
>>I take it people don't like this sort of behaviour then...if this is the case
>>then why doesn't the server refuse multiple connections from identical login
>>addresses?
>
>It used to, but when people got ghostbusted they couldn't get back in
>again, so the code was disabled, (no-one t-mode scummed at the time).
>What the code should do is tell the new person logging in that someone
>is already playing and allow them to eject the original.
>
>Any ideas/code on this?
>

	Well....I see a couple of problems with this. First of all, some of
my friends that love netrek don't have accounts on the school systems so I
log them into my accounts. This means that my friends and I wouldn't be able
to play at the same place. Second, after looking in the code the section of
code that you mentioned doesn't seem to exist anymore. I Assume we want to be
able to ask the question kinda like the reset stats question works. To be able 
to interactively ask the player if they want to remove an existing player from
the server it looks like quite a few changes would have to be made. The first
change is in the clients. We would have to add the question and interactive
part like the reset stats question. This would also require a new packet for
the server to know to remove the existing player. Therefore, changes in the
server would also be needed. Not only to look and see if there is a player
that already exists but also to send a packet and recieve and packet to deal
with the whole affair. 
	
	I for one do not really want to change the clients
since all the clients that exist would have to re-compiled. Also, if the
client recieves an unknown packet it discards it and continues on its way.
This would cause problems since the server would be waiting for a reply and
the client/player wouldn't know that a reply is necessary. They wouldn't be
able to reply even if they wanted to anyway.

	Since I see a need for this and noticed that this has happen even on
guzzler I think I have an alternative. The whole problem arises when a player
causes an artifical t-mode. So when the server goes into t-mode have the server
check to see if there are more than 2 players with the same login. If this
happens then have the server send mail to god showing the player list. The
god can then decide on a course of action if necessary. The server could also
inform the offending player(s) that a message has been sent to god.


Nick Trown
Netherworld
Server God of Guzzler
Organization: Carnegie Mellon, Pittsburgh, PA
Newsgroups: rec.games.netrek
Date: Wed, 16 Dec 1992 18:01:42 -0500 
From: "Timothy C. Worsley" <tw1r+@andrew.cmu.edu>
Subject: Re: Tom's* Scheduling Counter-Proposal
	<101940@netnews.upenn.edu> <1gjmafINN5pl@agate.berkeley.edu>
	<BzBG3o.C8G.1@cs.cmu.edu>
Distribution: rec

Excerpts from netnews.rec.games.netrek: 15-Dec-92 Re: Tom's* Scheduling
Count.. Scott Draves@CS.CMU.EDU (819)

> Tom> The system I propose has a greater scheduling start-up cost, but
> Tom> it has far fewer ongoing problems than a ladder system; the
> Tom> workload is shifted from the INL Council (who have volunteered to
> Tom> do the work) to the captains (who haven't, really) with a ladder
> Tom> system; I see this as a bad thing.

> yea, if teams did the scheduing instead of the council then, terrible
> things would happen, like, like, like, the council would have less
> power.  oh no! can't allow that...


	I think that if Tom's goal were really to have a lot of power, then the
INL council would never have been formed in the first place (Remember,
he used to have all the power.).  When Tom worries that team captains
will be assholes*, he can only base this on past history.  Face it,
there have been plenty of controveries even without a rapeable system.  
	It's obvious that Tom's system isn't perfect.  However, Tom has
purposely left his strong stance in order to try to make a better
system.  Perhaps it would be nice to meet him halfway.

*ObVal Ckurii

ZZnew guy
From: mlee@soda.berkeley.edu (Michael Lee)
Newsgroups: rec.games.netrek
Subject: Re: Yet another reason not to like the RSA client (sort of)
Date: 12 Dec 1992 11:21:02 GMT
Organization: U.C. Berkeley, CS Undergraduate Association
NNTP-Posting-Host: soda.berkeley.edu

In article <Bz42zx.1AF@ecf.toronto.edu> tangwi@ecf.toronto.edu (TANG WILLY) writes:
>Well ... to make a long story short ... when are the Eastern servers 
>(ie. Bronco, rwd4 ... ) going to go RSA ...  that will be when 
Bronco already went rsa, I believe the 7th was the official date.

mlee
One, Two, etc...
I bet someone already responded like one of the server dieties.  I really
should read the rest of the articles before posting.  Oh well!
From: mmoore%peruvian.cs.utah.edu@cs.utah.edu (Michael Moore)
Subject: Re: This has gone too far.....
Date: 18 Dec 92 18:30:43 MST
Organization: University of Utah CS Dept., Salt Lake City

In article <0f=yqFO00VpNATaFlP@andrew.cmu.edu> "Joseph E. Beck" <jb8n+@andrew.cmu.edu> writes:
>
>> I love it when a scout tries to dogfight me in
>> a DD, I just tractor on to him and SMACK - easy kill.
>Ok, so you're tractoring.  Any idea just how many torps you're
>sucking?  A whole lot.
> 

	If you let the DD get that close,of course, you will probably
die along with him. .. (DD tractors have such short range that if you
let your scout get that close somebody is definitley going to die,
and I might guess it will be the DD, but it all really depends ... in
fact the whole thing depends, in fact, how can anyone hope to prove
this with words? ACTIONS!!!!)...




>> Although I may be in the minority I believe DDs are the BEST
>> dogfighters. 

	I think you are in the majority.  But if you want to talk
about clued people only, then as far as I can tell we're definitely
in the minority.

>You are in the minority.  Talk to anyone who was in the dogfighting
>tournament.  Talk to any competent CA pilot, they'll show you why CA's
>beat up DD's.
>
	
	Well, I was in it.  I got my butt kicked, and yes I played a 
CA, but then I sucked that night.  I beat Balton and Spaceace and
mergatroid the previos night, when I was doing well.  Which mostly
goes to prove that the player has a hell of a lot to do with how
well the ship does.

	Which is further reason to stop this blathering and start
collecting statistics on actual battles.

	-Michael


+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
+Michael D. Moore     Office : (801) 582-5847x4721  Home : (801)359-6552  +
+Software Q&A Programmer   Evans & Sutherland     mmoore@dsd.es.com       +
+Student                   University of Utah     mmoore@peruvian.utah.edu+
Organization: Junior, Math/Computer Science, Carnegie Mellon, Pittsburgh, PA
Newsgroups: rec.games.netrek
Date: Wed, 16 Dec 1992 12:41:46 -0500 
From: "Joseph E. Beck" <jb8n+@andrew.cmu.edu>
Subject: Re: This has gone too far.....
	<1992Dec15.050018.24479@pasteur.Berkeley.EDU>


von@cory.Berkeley.EDU (Steve Von Worley) writes:
> >Um...yes it is.
> >
> >Ok, let's compare how the torp warp goes.  The SC has a *much* longer
> >effective torp range than the DD.  Why?  SC torps go faster, and the
> >SC dodges better.  So the SC can get into torp range and DD can only
> >phaser.  Now, DD phasers don't bring fear into the heart of SC pilots,
> >and the DD tractors aren't too fearsome either.  So the SC closes to
> >effective torp range (the DD still can't hit it with torps) and wins.
> >Any questions?
> 
> Your post is misleading.  Here are some more accurate statements:
> 
> SC torps go slightly faster than DD torps.
Very important IMO.
> DD torps do more damage than SC torps.
Not very important, I'm hanging outside your effective torp range.
When I say effective torp range I mean just outside where the DD can
hit the SC with torps.  Now, the SC has faster torps (tougher to
dodge), and can dodge better (can get closer).  So when the SC can hit
the DD with torps, the SC can't hit the DD.

> The torp range of the DD is signficantly longer than a SC.
Almost meaningless.  You will not a hit a competent SC pilot with DD
torps at longer than SC torp range.
> The SC turns about 1.8 times faster than the DD, which turns 1.8
>         times faster than a CA.
> A DD has more powerful phasers effective over a longer range.
Yes.  Phasers are it's only chance.  But I don't think they will win
the battle.  It seems bizarre but the SC closes and hoses with torps.  
> The DD has more powerful tractors and higher mass.
Pressores seem to be more important here.  You have to keep the SC
away.  Oh, and if you're using T/P there went that fuel you're about
to mention...
> The DD has a higher fuel regeneration and repair ratio.
See above. 
> So the question is: does the extra turning speed of an SC afford any 
> meaningful advantage over a DD, or is the DD turning rate adequate to
> dodge torps.
No, the DD turning rate is *not* adequate.  The SC is a smaller
maneuverable ship, it closes to a range where the dd WILL be hit.  Now
does the DD choose to use T/P to keep the SC away or does it run is
the question?

	joe
	Purple haze
	Lamb, Leg Of
Newsgroups: rec.games.netrek
From: kumara2@barh109.its.rpi.edu (Anuj Kumar)
Subject: Re: QUestion
Reply-To: kumara2@rpi.edu
Organization: Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute, Troy, NY.
Date: Mon, 14 Dec 1992 04:58:45 GMT

In article <Bz8C2s.Ko@usenet.ucs.indiana.edu>, bowyer@venus.iucf.indiana.edu (THEODORE W. BOWYER) writes:
|> 
|> Uh...I know you guys probably hate asking all the questions that get asked...
|> but I've read the FAQ and downloaded the help files from that ftp site, but 
|> I STILL can't figure something out...
|> 
|> How does one capture a planet??
|> 
|> Ok...I've got...let's say 2.03 kills...and i beam up say 3 armies....
|> 
|> every time I go to the enemies planet...and hit "b" for bomb...i get this
|> screwy message that says "Weapons officer informs you that planetary
|> bombing is ineffective, only X armies defending."
|> Why? 
|> 
|> And how do I bomb the planet?
|> 
|> Also, how does the war decl. screen tie in...(the enemy planet was HOSTILE).
|> 
|> 
|> Thanks,
|> 
|> 	SammyD 


  
   Well, you're doing fine until you get to the other enemy's planet. You do need kills to carry armies, and you did that, good. Now what you do is, let's say there is a planet with ten armies on it, and it is completely clear 
( NOOOOOOOTTTTTTT!!!!!!! ),  what you do is first go in and bomb the planet.
Lock on, and once you're on the planet, press 'b' to bomb it. You'll get a 
message saying " Bombing: only X armies defending." 
   Ok, see the thing is, bombing is only good when there are 5 or more armies
on a planet. Once you bomb it down below 5, the way to take it over is to
DROP armies on it. Now back to the situation you were in, you had three armies,
you locked on to the planet and once you got there, you pressed 'b'. WRONNNGG!!
That's where your problem is, what you have to do is press 'x', that will drop the armies that you have on your ship onto the planet. Then you will get a message that's "only X armies defending." To take over a planet what you must do
is drop more of your armies than the planet has. What I mean, is that, let's say
a planet has 2 armies left, to take it over, you must drop at least 3 to take it over. If you drop 2, you will nuetralize it, and if drop you 1, it will kill only
army on the planet, so the planet would have 1 army on it. In other words, its a 1 to 1 ratio, for every army you drop, one of their armies dies. 
    So the thing is, the more armies the planet has, the more you need to drop, 
but remember, always bomb the planet down to below five, then try and take it over. 
     
     GOOD LUCK, YOU'LL NEED IT!!!!!!!!


       :)


                                                        Slut

Organization: Junior, Math/Computer Science, Carnegie Mellon, Pittsburgh, PA
Newsgroups: rec.games.netrek
Date: Sun, 20 Dec 1992 02:45:55 -0500 
From: "Joseph E. Beck" <jb8n+@andrew.cmu.edu>
Subject: Re: Dogfight Size wars
	<1992Dec20.053935.24026@noose.ecn.purdue.edu>


bdhall@lucky.ecn.purdue.edu (Brian D Hall) writes:
> In article <UfAucdK00YUoAXlFg=@andrew.cmu.edu> jb8n+@andrew.cmu.edu (Joseph E.\
>  Beck) writes:
> >
> >
> >bdhall@lucky.ecn.purdue.edu (Brian D Hall) writes:
> >> In article <1gs94sINNonj@aludra.usc.edu> jimmyhua@aludra.usc.edu (Jimmy Hua\
> ng)\
> >> 
> >>         SC torps do NOT do more damage on fife.
> >>         THE ONLY difference between fife and vanilla bronco is the DDs, whi\
> ch
> >> have 8000 fuel instead of 7000.
> >
> >Does this mean you finally got rid of the mod where rear firing torps
> >causes extra weapon temp?
> >
> >       joe
> >       Purple haze
> >       Lamb, Leg Of
> 
> 
>         Oooopppsss....  Forgot about that.  That mod is still there.  It will
> be there for a while longer as well.  The way I see it, it's not that big of
> a deal.  You can fire 2 FULL torp spreads out the rear without wtemping.  I 
> have yet to wtemp from this and since I am a planet scum (at least on fife --
> made Admiral that way), I do my fair share of running and firing out
>  the rear.
Ok, so you lowered the wtemp limit then.  It used to be an extra 10
points per torp.  Since you can fire 2 full spreads I guess it is
around 5 extra now.  As far as running goes, most clued players run
when carrying armies if they're being seriously ogged. 

> 
>         Until we "cure" the TOTAL runnerscum attitude on fife, I believe the
> mod will stay in place.  It's horrible to see 10 ships all in a circle 
> spraying torps into the center and turn around to run.  Anyone got a better
> idea to "cure" this problem?  We are open for suggestions.
Seems kind of funny to improve the DD and then grumble about people
running.  What do you expect people to do with the things?  Best way
to cure a runnerscum attitude?  I assume you mean people who upon
seeing an enemy ship will always run away hoping they will be chased
(not someone who tries to bait people into chasing them to get a kill,
or someone who runs with armies).  The best way to cure this is to get
clued people.  They will laugh when everyone runs from them and
procede to take/bomb without interference.  After several genocides
people should begin to pick up what's going on.  

I am curious as to how you're defining "runnerscum" though.  I equate
runnerscum with always runs no matter what.  Which is a clueless thing
to do.  Some people equate it with playing smart and running for a
reason.  Good players often run (more likely to SC bomb or carry
armies), and for some reason people don't like it when people do...

Also, the server patch that reduces server load on the machines would
be *very* useful since fife has bad server lag.  That would encourage
more people to play there.

	joe
	Purple haze
	Lamb, Leg Of 


Organization: Junior, Math/Computer Science, Carnegie Mellon, Pittsburgh, PA
Newsgroups: rec.games.netrek
Date: Mon, 14 Dec 1992 13:17:55 -0500 
From: "Joseph E. Beck" <jb8n+@andrew.cmu.edu>
Subject: Re: This has gone too far.....
	<1ghahmINNftr@girtab.usc.edu>
	<Yf=4JUW00VpH0YWUUn@andrew.cmu.edu>


"Timothy C. Worsley" <tw1r+@andrew.cmu.edu> writes:
> Excerpts from netnews.rec.games.netrek: 13-Dec-92 Re: This has gone too
> far..... 5150@scf.usc.edu (353)
> 
> > Er, no.  It's not.
> 
> > 5150
> > we're not going to go into this again, are we...
> 
> 
>         Perhaps we need a second dogfighting tourney where CAs and BBs are ill\
> egle.  
Are AS and SB's allowed?

	joe
	Purple haze
	Lamb, Leg Of
From: mvanheyn@whale.cs.indiana.edu (Marc VanHeyningen)
Newsgroups: rec.games.netrek
Subject: Re: NBR proposal:  message hook
Date: 11 Dec 92 22:11:44 GMT
Organization: Computer Science Dept, Indiana University
X-Quoted: 27%

Thus said "Joseph E. Beck" <jb8n+@andrew.cmu.edu>:
>The message hook allows you to specify a file that will take all
>messages (except kill messages) into stdin.  Now, it seems possible to
>search through incoming strings for things like planet names.  Now if,
>say TAU is in an incoming message, this specified program could create
>a small object that flashes near the location of TAU (since the
>absolute screen coordinates of TAU are known when you write the
>program, if you map you netrek window to the same place).  You could
>also cause your screen to flash if you receive an "important" message,
>and you could have easily modifiable methods to determine what is
>"important".  This seems like a large advantage, and looks 'somewhat'
>borgish.  Am I missing something, or does this give a *huge* advantage
>to people to carefully craft their message hook program?

I dunno that I would say huge.

The original idea was to send messages into a sound program, which would
then parse the messages and read them to you (or at least generate some
sorts of pithy sounds based upon them.)  Such was considered a much more
flexible and generally good way to add sounds and the like than trying
to agree on a mechanism and include it as part of the client.  In fact,
I already have such a program I wrote several months ago, although it's
not thoroughly debugged and I don't have a client with the hooks to test
it on yet.

Having visual or audio indication of the contents of messages is a
potential advantage, although I would hardly call it "huge".

I would expect that anybody with sufficient talent to go to all the
trouble of writing a program that drew little indicators on top of
planets that were referenced in messages would already know where
everything is without a second thought.  Of course, such a program could
be shared, but it isn't likely to be that portable.  In addition, if you
make these flags large enough to be easily noticed, you create a strong 
risk of having them interfere with the action going on underneath in the
real window.  I'd guess that most experienced players would find your
proposed cheats more a nuisance than a help.

But, by all means, if you think so strongly that this is a bad idea,
don't just get annoyed that people don't answer your posts on it.  Post
a proposal to undo the feature.  If you can get some seconds, and then
win a 2/3rds vote, your new proposal undoing the already-passed one will
then be cast into law.
-- 
Marc VanHeyningen    mvanheyn@whale.cs.indiana.edu    MIME & RIPEM accepted
On->ORI Ogg their base!
Om->ORI Killing their base does nothing to help our team at this point.
On->ORI But he's hurt!!!
From: wolfone@ccwf.cc.utexas.edu (Patrick Chester)
Newsgroups: rec.games.netrek
Subject: Re: Killign twits
Date: 13 Dec 92 22:15:32 GMT
Organization: The University of Texas at Austin, Austin TX

Twits serve a valuable position on any netrek team. Your teams Starbase
can use tractors and pressors on them to block shots headed towards them :)



-- 
Patrick Chester            |----------------------------------------------------
wolfone@ccwf.cc.utexas.edu |"The earth is too fragile a basket in which to keep
Politically Incorrect      |  all your eggs." Robert A. Heinlein
Future Lunar Colonist      |"The meek can *have* the Earth. The rest of us are 
#^%$!! Militarist          |  going to the stars." Robert A. Heinlein
(Of the Sun Tzu mentality) |----------------------------------------------------
From: jimmyhua@aludra.usc.edu (Jimmy Huang)
Newsgroups: rec.games.netrek
Subject: Re: This has gone too far.....
Date: 20 Dec 1992 01:35:20 -0800
Organization: University of Southern California, Los Angeles, CA
NNTP-Posting-Host: aludra.usc.edu

"Joseph E. Beck" <jb8n+@andrew.cmu.edu> writes:

>If a lot of people using ship X can beat the best player of ship Y
>that means something to me.  It makes me wonder what the people who
>use ship Y could accomplish if them bothered to learn about ship X.
>Your statement about a person's best dogfighting ship being the one
>they know best is obviously true.  But if someone starts by learning
>the AS, would you recomend they learn to use another ship for a
>mission requiring dogfighting skills (like ogging someone who will
>run)?  Yes.  Just because you do best in ship Y doesn't mean it's the
>best ship to use, consider learning about ship X.  A fact you refuse
>to ackowledge. 

>	joe
>	Purple haze
>	Lamb, Leg Of

WELL, IN that case, lemme put it in another way, LAGGED SC's can't 
dogfight as well, as LAGGED AS's.  When I play in bronco, and am
having a HARD time ogging a runner, I SWITCH into A BIGGER ship - 
SOMETIMES AS's!!!  And, yes they are good at taking out people and living. 

If an SC tried to close into me while I was AS, i would det ALL, his torps, 
and then fire my own, MY torps do MORE damage; MY torps go just as fast;
We'll both eat torps, BUT HE will die, and not me.  

SSSOOO, IF the SC is the best dogfighting ship in this netrek galaxy...
Why can't it take out an AS by dogfighting it????

Just a thought in this endless thread.  

Jimmy

p.s.
This is why I insist a) SCOUTS probably aren't best Dogfighters. b) 
the best Dogfighting ship is the ship you fight best in. 

When you play clued games, it often means you have to suffer lag...
(ALL THE WAY TO CMU?) which means I hate flying SCs!

f
Newsgroups: rec.games.netrek