HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
X-Delivery-Notice:  SMTP MAIL FROM does not correspond to sender.
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.christia
Date:         Thu, 20 Aug 1992 14:25:33 CDT
Reply-To:     bradk%isdgsm@rtsg.mot.com
From:         Brad Kaiser <bradk%isdgsm@RTSG.MOT.COM>
Subject:      Jesus speaks
X-To:         CHRISTIA%ASUVM.INRE.ASU.EDU@motgate.mot.com
              20 Aug 1992 14:12:29 CDT <9208201914.AA20537@motgate.mot.com>

Tom Brewer writes:

>> Out of curiosity I stopped and read Elizabeth Stevens' post of Cyndi Cain's
>> Locutions of Mary and Jesus.

>> Ok, serious question here....Honest.

>> Was that a joke or do people really believe that stuff?

No joke, Tom.  When Jesus said "I will not leave you orphans" and "I
will be with you always, even to the end of the world", he wasn't
joking; he meant every word.

Brad Kaiser
(bradk%isdgsm@rtsg.mot.com)

  "Hatred destroys.  Only love creates."
            -- St. Maximilian Kolbe, shortly before his arrest and
               martyrdom at the hands of the Nazis.
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU
Organization: University of Missouri-Columbia Campus Computing, 314-882-2000
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.christia
Date:         Mon, 17 Aug 1992 16:29:35 CDT
From:         Elizabeth Stevens <CCCAMPER@MIZZOU1.BITNET>
Subject:      Re: re-introducing myself after a long absence....

On Mon, 17 Aug 1992 12:30:41 GMT Matthias Will said:
>
>P.S.: (no mail without it...!) A special hallo to James Kiefer, Michael Kline,
>Bob Weiss, Bernice Tennant, Lon Mendelsohn, Leo Wierczbowski (sp?), Jim
>Merritt, Elizabeth Stevens, Marty Helgesen, and of course, Madge McBurney
>(still our list mom?). Sorry folks, but I just couldn't resist - I'm really
>happy to be back!!!

Hi Matt! I wondered what happened to you! Welcome back, I've only been
here a matter of weeks, myself. Post whatever you can, whenever you
can!

love, Elizabeth
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU
X-Delivery-Notice:  SMTP MAIL FROM does not correspond to sender.
X-Vmsmail-To: SMTP%"CHRISTIA@ASUVM.INRE.ASU.EDU"
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.christia
Date:         Wed, 12 Aug 1992 13:41:49 -0700
From:         MARK DRAKE <DRAKE@ASUCHM.LA.ASU.EDU>
Subject:      Re: Southern US
X-To:         CHRISTIA@ASUVM.INRE.ASU.EDU

>
>	That story you told was unfortunate, not all Southerners are like
>that.  Please don't get the idea that we are all rebel flag-waving, KKK members
>who are ungodly.  There are always a few rotten apples in every bushel.

	We know.  All of our family is from the south, wonderful christians I
look up to.  However, we see, and hear, and oftentimes experience people from
southern churches that seem to view the church as a social entity, rather than
the body of christ.

	My Pastor, who grew up in Missouri, was saying this morning that our
church probably wouldn't be allowed to join most associations of southern
baptist churches in Missouri.  Why?  To open and progressive.  (In style,form,
or "feel". Doctinally we are "good baptists".  Of course, since we believe in
the priesthood of the believer, that may also be a reason some of these new S.
baptist leaders wouldn't accept us. :-(   [thats an inside denominational quip
for those who didn't follow])

Mark Drake

ps Just wanted to make the comment, before anyone else does, there there are
a lot of southern baptist churches like mine in the south.  The south is
a big place, with one southern baptist church for every few thousand people.

Also, generally, I can think of only three reasons that a church wouldn't be
accepted in an association:  "Improperly" accepting Homosexual people, "turning
charismatic" (this is iffy.  depends on the form), and having a woman as senior
pastor. (My church doesn't fit any of these, for those wondering.)
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU
X-Delivery-Notice:  SMTP MAIL FROM does not correspond to sender.
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.christia
Date:         Tue, 18 Aug 1992 12:16:21 EDT
From:         dave talaga x2752 <talaga@E5SB.OSDHW.SYR.GE.COM>
Subject:      Re: Is the Bible Absolute Truth?
X-To:         CHRISTIA@asuvm.inre.asu.edu

> >I believe in the inerrancy of the Bible through * Faith * in the same
> way as I believe in Jesus Christ through * Faith *.  It seems simple, but
> isn't child-like faith what Jesus taught.  Marci
>
>
> Amen Marci.  I understand the need for some to go into theological
> discussions and logical explanations.  But it all boils down to
> faith.  If the translators were not perfect, that does not mean
> that God will not use His Word.  It's the word that is inerrant,
> not the people who recorded it.  God uses all things for good for
> those that love Him.  Praise the Lord I can't understand much
> of men's explanations and have to rely on simplicity!   Carol Nemec
>

Believe it or not I agree with both of you.   Unfortunately, for some of us, the
 path to understanding such a simple truth is heavily mined.   I suppose such
 explanations and discussions will never prove anything, but, the hope is that
 through them, someone will be convinced that the focus is Jesus, and the faith
 will follow.
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.christia
Date:         Mon, 17 Aug 1992 10:17:44 EDT
From:         JEK@NIHCU.BITNET
Subject:      Maury Povich
X-To:         CHRISTIA@ASUACAD.BITNET, BSTUDY-L@UTARLVM1.BITNET,
              IVCF-L@UBVM.BITNET

Point of Information (USA listmembers):

Two segments of the MAURY POVICH talk show scheduled to be shown on
NBC Television in my area this week may interest some listmembers.

Monday 17 August 1992 -- when a child's false accusations of abuse
lead to a parent's imprisonment.

Wednesday 19 August 1992 -- whether a spouse should remain married
out of a sense of obligation.

Times and days may vary in other areas. Check your local guides.

I am not expressing an opinion on the shows (which I have not seen)
but merely alerting those who may wish to watch them.

 Yours,
 James Kiefer
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.christia
Date:         Wed, 19 Aug 1992 00:21:26 EDT
Comments:     Converted from PROFS to RFC822 format by PUMP V2.2X
From:         Angela Zimmerman <AMZIMM01@ULKYVM.LOUISVILLE.EDU>
Subject:      Helping "those in sin"

Item Retrieval Assistant, DADS
Phone: 588-6757



>Angela, I think there is some confusion here.  We are instructed to help our
>Christian brothers and sisters who are in sin.  We are to help them overcome
>whatever their problem is. There are some specific instructions on how to do
>this.  Marty Helgesen posted some information on this process.  If this

Isn't this in contradiction to a parable about trying to remove the speck
from your neighbor's eye when you have a log in your own?  This is another
confusing contradiction.  You're supposed to help your neighbor "overcome
whatever their problem is", yet it says from this parable that you are
supposed to help yourself instead of criticizing others.

>fails and they persist in their sinfull behaviour, then we should remove
>them from our midst.  Note that Rev 2:21 states that Jezebel at Thyatira was

I still think this is also contradicting "judge not, lest you be judged".
Am I wrong in this feeling?  It seems to me that one minute the bible
says one thing and the next minute, the exact opposite.  Can someone
explain these seeming contradictions?  Thanks.
From: psyrobtw@ubvmsb.cc.buffalo.edu (Robert Weiss)
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.christia
Subject: Re: Is the Bible Absolute Truth?
Date: 13 Aug 92 03:14:00 GMT
Organization: University at Buffalo
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41

In article <CHRISTIA%92081210210431@ASUACAD.BITNET>, ISPMOM@ASUACAD.BITNET (Madge McBurney) writes...

>Earnest, please do not do this.  I am trying very hard to keep the
>cross-posting from NetNews to Christia to a minimum.  Please respond
>privately if anyone wishes more information.


Madge,

	Have you considered taking Christia off of Netnews?



 en agape,
 Bob 
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.christia
Date:         Fri, 21 Aug 1992 03:43:41 EST
From:         Kerry Stephenson <KSTE@PURCCVM.BITNET>
Subject:      brad ain't gettin' his mail

Ahem:

I've just recieved 10 messages that Brad Kaiser hasn't gotten his mail.

I don't think I sent him any.  I know I didn't send him 10.

Am I the only person this is happening to?  Am I some kind of official
delegate to the network posting convention or what?

Grumble, grumble, gripe.  Things is gettin' truly weird.

Love INC,
         ---Kerry
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU
X-VMS-To: IN%"CHRISTIA%ASUACAD.BITNET@ricevm1.rice.edu"
X-VMS-Cc: B882SA
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.christia
Date:         Fri, 21 Aug 1992 11:49:00 CDT
From:         Sieg A U R I C H <B882SA@UTARLG.UTA.EDU>
Subject: Re: This won't win me any friends, but...
X-To:         CHRISTIA%ASUACAD.BITNET@ricevm1.rice.edu

Memo.
	I am curious as to where the scripture is that states that Mary
is "the first intersesor before the Lord".  That might help clear up
some of my confusion.

			Sieg :{>

													<><
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.christia
Date:         Thu, 20 Aug 1992 12:15:50 EST
From:         Kerry Stephenson <KSTE@PURCCVM.BITNET>
Subject:      Re: masturbation

Lora:

Interesting post.  Some advice was good, I thought.  Some dated.
But I would *definitely* change the reward to $10.00.

A quarter won't buy anything delightful anymore.

Love INC,
         --Kerry
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.christia
Date:         Fri, 21 Aug 1992 14:12:08 CDT
From:         Tom Brewer <NOTTMB@LSUVM.BITNET>
Subject: Re: This won't win me any friends, but...
              21 Aug 1992 12:08:32 -0700 from <DRAKE@ASUCHM.LA.ASU.EDU>

Yo Mark: Just a quickie -

Is not Mary called, wrongly of course, by the RC a "mediatrix" (sp?)?

Also, how do you define "mediator"?  The Bible, (you know the Authority)
says there is only one mediator between God and men. And that one mediator
ain't Mary.

What is she mediating? Peace between God and man? No, I don't think so.

Tom Brewer
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.christia
Date:         Mon, 17 Aug 1992 10:58:00 EDT
From:         "Carl A. Lahetta" <U952020@RUTADMIN.BITNET>
Subject: Re: Trusting Scoutmasters

> Date:         Mon, 17 Aug 1992 09:35:14 -0500
> From:         "j.b. cormier" <CORJB@RHODES.BITNET>
> Subject:      Re: Trusting Scoutmasters
> To:           "carl a. lahetta" <U952020>
>
> > How is a child suppose to deal with the fact that their scoutmaster is
> >  attracted to males?  What about when the kids take showers, go swimming,
> >  or go to sleep at night.  It would be the same as having men be Brownie
> >  Troop leaders and sleeping with girls in tents.  I think some parents
> >  would be nervous about that.  Same thing for the boys, ever hear of
> >  temptation?
>
> I think that maybe some people on this list need to have the
> difference between homosexuality and pedophilia explained.

   This is the tactic Gays are using.  The fact is that there are HOMOSEXUAL
   and HETEROSEXUAL pedophiles.  They are not a separate category.  And what
   about NAMBLA?  They are Homosexuals that want to do away with age consent
   laws so that they can have sex with young boys.  And there are stats that
   show most pedophiles are Gay.  I'll be happy to cite the sources tomorrow.

> Homosexuals are attracted to men, pedophiles to boys(or girls).
>
> How many typical heterosexual men are attracted to girls?
>
> Jason

Carl---------+   What ever happened to the meaning behind "I'm a Christian"?
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.christia
Date:         Thu, 20 Aug 1992 16:38:23 EDT
From:         TQX@CORNELLC.BITNET
Subject:      My Mom Too

Bernice,
   Like Toni's mother, my mother also died from cancer after a long
painful fight. One of the last things she said to me was "Please
pray that I go quickly." I couldn't do that right away but I seemed
after a while that it was all right for me to pray that way. It was
less than two days later that she went home to be with her Lord. I
have always had peace that I prayed correctly.
   Look to the Holy Spirit for guidance. Put it in the Lord's hands
and no matter how you feel led to pray, it will be the right way and
you will have peace about it. I am praying for you and your mother
that the Lord's will will be done.
                                         In Christ,
                                         Claude
From: FACN34B@SAUPM00.BITNET (zane of dhahran)
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.christia
Subject: revelation
Date: 20 Aug 92 12:32:40 GMT
Organization: King Fahd University of Petroleum and Minerals, S.A.
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU
X-Acknowledge-To: <FACN34B@SAUPM00.BITNET>

Marty & Steve,

    Thanks both of you for clarifying the R.C. position on revelation.
Could you help me out a bit more and give me a crystal clear definition of
"public revelation?"  Thanks ahead of time.
                                                Peace, Zane.
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU
From: anachem@bronze.ucs.indiana.edu (mark gilstrap)
Subject: Re: Orthodox
Organization: Indiana University
Date: Sun, 23 Aug 1992 01:49:28 GMT

In article <9208211722.AA26283@bistromath> ptrei@BISTROMATH.MITRE.ORG writes:
>In a long and fascinating post about an illegitimate Russian Orthodox
>group, Mark Gilstrap writes:
>
>>	The Order of Mans (so I hear) no longer exists. In
>> Indianapolis they have converted their buildings and restaurant
>> (Brother Juniper's) into "orthodox" church grounds. (This is the same
>> area where Jim Jones began his ministry in Indy (near the masonic
>> mall) - I have been told that the very same buildings used by Jim
>> Jones are now theirs).
>
>     Two points:
>
>1.  "Guilt by vague physical proximity" is (to put it mildly) a cheap
>shot.  Do you have *any* evidence whatsoever to link these two groups
>with the Masons?
>
	I simply found it interesting that (if true) this group rose 
	up in the same dwelling places as a mass murderer / religionist
	especially in light of the fact that they worship an entity
	which may well have been present in that location prior to
	their arrival. I have been told many times that that area is
	a "cold spot".

>     Actually, it's not clear just who you are trying to smear. Are
>you saying that the Masons are condemned for having a hall near the
>other groups, or that the other groups are clearly evil because they
>are within walking distance of a Masonic hall?
>
	What area am I talking about? As anyone familiar with
	Indianapolis is aware, there is a mall running north of the
	Soldiers and Sailors monument for quite some distance. There
	are lots of shrines and monuments and lots of buildings that
	look like they are straight outr of one of the Reichs. There
	are also lots of masonic symbols and of course the huge Scottish 
	Rite Temple is on the mall. 

>     Describing something as "near the masonic mall (sic)" is
>hopelessly ambiguous. There are 26 lodges in Indianapolis.  It'd be
>difficult NOT to be near one.
>
	Sorry, its only ambiguous from afar. I tryed to locate it
	better for those who are familiar with the city and might
	have wondered where I meant. For those who are unfamiliar
	a much more elaborate description would have been required
	(and still be worthless).

>    This feeble attempt to link all groups you don't like may lead
>people to think that you don't have any *good* arguments.
>
	It sure provoked a pretty embarassing (to you) response
	from you...don't you think?  Its not a typo, and I'm 
	smiling.

>2.  I realize it's a typo, but "masonic mall" made me smile! :-).
>
>					go with God,
>
>						Peter Trei
>						ptrei@Mitre.org
>
>PS: If there really IS a shopping mall in Indy called "Masonic",
>PLEASE accept my humble apologies.
>						pt

	I don't think so, but I could be wrong. Mel Simon does live
there however, so it may only be a matter of time. (he's the developer
of the Mall of the Americas in MN) All of us fundamentalist Christians
of course know that jews and masons are in cahoots -- right? :*)  Thanks
for the copy of my last posting. 

	Fr Mark
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU
Via:      UK.AC.SOLENT; 13 AUG 92 11:40:32 BST
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.christia
Date:         Thu, 13 Aug 1992 11:40:00 GMT
From:         Z_STAFF_CL@SOUTHAMPTON-INSTITUTE.AC.UK
Subject:      Re: My first sermon! Tonight!! ARRGH!

A lot of people record Kerry's experience of sermons.  I know a number
of people who after many years still are a mess of nerves before and
after but serenely calm and peace full while delivering a sermon.  They
all panic untill they stand on the spot, pause for a moment and give it
over to God to do as he will with the next few minutes.  It works for
them.  I haven't had the opportunity in a while but I always found I
hit the peace & calm about two points into the script !

best of luck, God bless
Carol L
z_staff_cl@uk.ac.southampton-institute
From: laperla@byron.u.washington.edu (Juan Perla)
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.christia
Subject: Re:Beggars
Date: 19 Aug 92 13:13:26 GMT
Organization: University of Washington, Seattle

Well let me try again.
My brother in law works with the homeless here in Seattle. 
He says that we should only give food or help but not money.
He also told me that most homeless people that he knows also say that
one should only give food and not money because they know that the 
money will most likely be spent on their vices.

But no matter what keep giving ...

a dios
juan


-- 
Juan Manuel Perla                                    University of Washington
laperla@u.washington.edu             University Computing Services Operations
=============================================================================
"Ha!  Your Leaping Tiger Kung Fu is no match for my Frightened Piglet Style!"
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU
X-mailer: Pegasus Mail v2.2 (R4).
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.christia
Date:         Thu, 13 Aug 1992 18:56:33 PST
From:         FRANK@LAW.UCLA.EDU
Subject:      Re: Mary & colour blue

Kerry --

Actually it is both artistic and theological.  Which came first
however is another question.

Which brings to mind a question I have and wonder if anyone on this
list understands the issues.

A while ago I briefly read an article, in my dentists office,
rtegarding a raging debate between the worlds of art (contemporary)
and religion and about the role, proper role etc that one, or each
should have with the other.  I was more concerned with my impending
appointment than what the article really had to say.  Somehow knowing
that my dentist is a Christian does ease my anxiety.

So does anyone know what this is all about or am I nuts?

Frank
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.christia
Date:         Thu, 20 Aug 1992 14:13:28 EST
From:         Kerry Stephenson <KSTE@PURCCVM.BITNET>
Subject:      God and the GOP

Hi all:

I just saw Quayle's prayer at this morning's Prayer Breakfast in
Houston.  This is how he closed it:

"...and when this race is over, help us to return to the mandate
[of our lives, I think]: to love, and serve, our God."

Amen.

Love INC,

         --Kerry
From: bradk%isdgsm@RTSG.MOT.COM (Brad Kaiser)
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.christia
Subject: Is the Bible Absolute Truth?
Date: 18 Aug 92 15:52:29 GMT
Reply-To: bradk%isdgsm@rtsg.mot.com
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU
X-Delivery-Notice:  SMTP MAIL FROM does not correspond to sender.
X-To:         CHRISTIA%ASUVM.INRE.ASU.EDU@motgate.mot.com
X-cc:         talaga%E5SB.OSDHW.SYR.GE.COM@motgate.mot.com
              18 Aug 1992 09:30:48 EDT <9208181325.AA06807@motgate.mot.com>

Dave Talaga writes, in response to a post of mine (I think):

>> I have never heard of an attack on the inerrancy of scripture focus on the
>>  syntatical arrangement of the text; rather, it discredits the Word by
 picking
>>  apart the historic, scientific, miraculous, or medical accounts
>> listed therein.

But I am not attacking the inerrancy of Scripture.  On the contrary, I
*assert* the inerrancy of Scripture, confident that the teaching
authority of my Church (which asserts the same) is confirmed and
upheld by the Holy Spirit, as Jesus promised.

My problem is with your argument that the inerrancy of Scripture is
linked inextricably with the perfection of God.  (At least that's how
I read it!)  God's perfection does not depend on the inerrant
transmission of His word by mortal humans; His perfection simply is:
it is eternal, ineffable, and utterly majestic.

(I agree that the fundamental issues of salvation are the same
yesterday, today and forever.  That was not what I meant when I spoke
of cultural differences between us and the Inspired Authors.  It's a
question of how one interprets what was read, not whether what was
read is relevant.)

It may surprise you to learn that I believe quite firmly not only in
Biblical miracles, but that our world *today* is literally flooded in
miracles, by the grace of God.

In Him,

Brad Kaiser
(bradk%isdgsm@rtsg.mot.com)

  "Hatred destroys.  Only love creates."
            -- St. Maximilian Kolbe, shortly before his arrest and
               martyrdom at the hands of the Nazis.
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.christia
From: 78witherspoo@cua.edu
Subject: Re: Morris Cerullo
Organization: The Catholic University of America
Date: Tue, 18 Aug 1992 18:17:36 GMT

In article <1992Aug18.162914.21947@aber.ac.uk>, spk@uk.ac.aber (Stephen Kingston) writes:

On the subject of faith healers:

> Why do we allow this nonsense to continue within the church?
> 
> On a previous program, someone said of mr Cerullo - "It doesn't matter 
> whether or not he is a fraud, the point is that God is working."
> 
> Now if someones ministry is not glorifying to God then he is a fraud 
> and God will * not * work.
> 
> Personally I believe that Morris Cerullo's ministry is not glorifying 
> to God.
> 
> Stephen
________________________________________________________________
Stephen--

	Mr. Cerullo's ministry may not be glorifying God, but it has obviously
helped some people.  I dunno, I used to come down hard on these huxters, but at
the same time, who am I to determine how the will of God works?  Maybe what he
is saying is true, who knows?

	I do believe, however, that most of the faith healers and
tent-revivalists are in it solely for the money.  But there are exceptions to
this rule.

	An interesting corollary: a co-worker just showed me a new gadget that
he recently purchased: the King James Bible in a computerized format.  This
little console, maunfactured by Franklin industries, contains the enitre text
of the King James Bible, old and new testaments, on-line help, a glossary,
thesaurus, and a search index that will help you find specific passages and
quotations.   Pretty wild...

Love and good walking,

Tom Witherspoon

"Daddy didn't give attention,
 To the fact that Mommy didn't care..."
	-- Pearl Jam, "Jeremy"

 

Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU
X-Envelope-to: CHRISTIA@ASUACAD.BITNET
X-VMS-To: IN%"CHRISTIA@ASUACAD.BITNET"
X-VMS-Cc: CORJB
MIME-version: 1.0
Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.christia
Date:         Tue, 18 Aug 1992 13:38:22 -0500
From:         "j.b. cormier" <CORJB@RHODES.BITNET>
Subject: Re: Something more on Revelation

I just know it, Jason.

Shalom,
Memo.

        This is the only answer that I have ever found to
        be acceptable.  I, at this time, do not know it,
        however.  I am trying.

        Jason
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU