HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: rpitts@emperor.gatech.edu (Richard Pitts)
Newsgroups: talk.religion.misc
Subject: Re: Is Jesus a prophet?
Date: 15 Dec 92 21:49:15 GMT
Organization: CERL-EE, Georgia Institue of Technology

In article <rana.724406667@rintintin.Colorado.EDU> rana@rintintin.Colorado.EDU (Nabeel Ahmad Rana) writes:
|rpitts@emperor.gatech.edu (Richard Pitts) writes:
|>In article <rana.723431431@rintintin.Colorado.EDU> rana@rintintin.Colorado.EDU (Nabeel Ahmad Rana) writes:
|>>Jesus Christ never claimed to be "God" or "son of God". He has
|>>always invited mankind to worship God, not him self.  This could
|>>be proven by looking at the early historical literature of christianity.
|
|>Jesus did tell us to worship God, but he never rebuked anyone for
|>worshipping Himself.  Others did rebuke people for worshipping
|>themselves, but not Jesus.  Hmm.
|
|If Jesus never asked people to worship himself, then that clearly
|means that he never claimed to be GOD. 

Could it be equally said that Jesus never said he was not God and so
he is?  One can't argue very well from silence.

However, when Jesus said in response to the Jewish leaders questions
that "before Abraham was I AM", the Jews recognized that he was claiming
to be older than Abraham.  Also, Jesus also said that He was the 
Son of God and the Jews were going to stone him for blasphemy, for they
recognized that he was claiming to be equal to God with his statment.
Jesus said he was the King of the Jesus.  Jesus our our Savior and God
is our Savior.  God created the world and yet it says Jesus created it,
too, for without Jesus nothing was created and it was created for him.

Doesn't it seem odd to you that the attributes give to Jesus are SO
much like those associated with God?  

If we are to worship God alone, why do you think Jesus was worshipped 
without rebuke?

For Christ and His Kingdom,
Richard Pitts

-- 
rpitts@cerl.gatech.edu      |  Love and Worship God, the Creator of the Earth. 
                          --|--   
Pro-Life!              -|-  |  -|-    Come bow down in worship, let us kneel
Pro-Responsibility!     |   |   |     before the Lord Our Maker.  Psalm 95:6
From: hartigan@ac.dal.ca
Newsgroups: talk.religion.misc
Subject: Re: Comment on THE MIND OF THE BIBLE BELIEVER
Date: 11 Dec 92 19:11:04 GMT
Organization: Dalhousie University, Halifax, Nova Scotia, Canada

In article <1992Dec10.204826.19695@organpipe.uug.arizona.edu>, brian@lpl.arizona.edu (Brian Ceccarelli 602/621-9615) writes:
> In article <1992Dec9.232946.9408@ac.dal.ca> hartigan@ac.dal.ca writes:
>> 
>>Re: Stephen Doe's posts on The Mind of the Bible Believer
>>
>>I would agree that Evangelical Christianity is a particularly pernicious
>>ideology, one that is so totally inhuman and unappealing that its
>>success is only understandable in psychological terms. 
>> 
>>Anyway..this is just to let you know someone is partaking of the fruits
>>of your labours. :)
>>
>
>     Sounds like his fruits have worms in them. 

Yes..YES...it's all so clear to me now!  

I...I love Big Brother!  

> Sorry guys, just couldn't resist!   :-)

Yes! Two plus two DOES equal five....! 

*tears of joy*

> Brian Ceccarelli

Sean Hartigan
hartigan@ac.dal.ca

The cut worm forgives the plough. -- Usenet Survival Guide.
Newsgroups: talk.religion.misc
From: pharvey@quack.sac.ca.us (Paul Harvey)
Subject: Re: Slaves to Jesus was Defining the kingdom of God
Organization: The Duck Pond public unix: +1 408 249 9630, log in as 'guest'.
	<1992Dec18.214054.28777@blaze.cs.jhu.edu>
Date: 19 Dec 1992 05:42:53 UTC

In article <1992Dec18.214054.28777@blaze.cs.jhu.edu> 
arromdee@jyusenkyou.cs.jhu.edu (Ken Arromdee) writes:
>In article <1992Dec18.035619.19021@cbnewsd.cb.att.com> 
press2@cbnewsd.cb.att.com (barry.o.olson) writes:
>>> It is ridiculous
>>> for a bank manager to take a month off work in order to experience
>>> what it is like to be unemployed.
>>Well, I should have clarified earlier that he did most assuredly
>>experience the _full_ weight of humanity on the cross. Some would
>>say for _all_ who ever lived and will live. that's quite a weight.
>>Then he said, follow me for my yoke is easy to bear.
>It's ridiculous for a bank manager to take _two_ months off work to experience
>unemployment.
>Maybe he bore a weight, but it's _still_ not permanent; if it's not permanent,
>it's not much of a scarifice.  And the weight is still very small compared to
>a God (anything is very small compared to a God) even though it may look big
>to people.
>No doubt his yoke is easy to bear.  Any yoke of any kind is so minor compared
>to God that it is as nothing.

I wonder if you guys really mean joke instead of yoke?

Anyway, I think a better analogy would be if Ross Perot volunteered to
skip all interest and dividends on his net worth for one hour. Can you
imagine the trauma, poor Ross would barely make it through that hour of
zero cash flow, strike that, actually it would be a net loss due to
inflation for one hour. Everyone says their burden is the heaviest, but
oh yeah, com'on, who feels it knows it most.
From: ses2@po.CWRU.Edu (S. E. Stansfield)
Newsgroups: talk.religion.misc
Subject: Re: You should be a Christian because (30 words max):
Date: 16 Dec 1992 18:07:35 GMT
Organization: Case Western Reserve University, Cleveland, OH (USA)
Reply-To: ses2@po.CWRU.Edu (S. E. Stansfield)
NNTP-Posting-Host: slc12.ins.cwru.edu


In a previous article, bednarek@picard.med.ge.com (Dennis Bednarek Mfg 4-6971) says:
>Richard Pitts (rpitts@emperor.gatech.edu) wrote:
>: [I don't have access to the alt groups.]
>: 
>: In article <1992Dec14.135939.1888@lut.ac.uk> A.J.Robinson@lut.ac.uk (Alan Robinson) writes:
>: |In article <1992Dec11.140927.21058@cs.cornell.edu> rodmoten@cs.cornell.edu (Roderick Moten) writes:
>: |>Answer:
>: |>
>: |>To be Christ like and obtain a relationship with the Father.
>: |
>: |But I don't want to be like Christ and I don't want a relationship
>: |with his dad.
>
>Well that can only be because you do not know him in the least amount.
>If someone gives you a gift you are thankful.  Yet here you are saying
>that you don't even want to know the individual that has given you
>everything you have.  Jesus's Father (OUR FATHER) has given you life
>and exesistance, besides that he gave us his most precious possession
>his son so you would not have to bear an eternity lost.

This is amusing.  I thought that my life came about because my parents had
sex and nine and a half months later my mother went into the hospital and I
was born.  I don't see that any outside being had anything to do with it. 
Admittedly, the doctor helped with the delivery.
>: 
>: What is there about either Jesus the Christ or the Father that you
>: don't want to be like or even know?
>: What does it require of you
>: to let go of?
>
>My guess is that Alan is one of the millions of poor souls that seems
>threatened by the fact that if he accepted God he would end up changing 
>his life.  Change is what he fears and his ignorance leads him to fear
>of the unknown.  If only his fear were of the eternal flames of hell
>perhaps he would open his mind up to reality.

Perhaps he, like I, is one of those people who is able to think for himself
and realize that christianity is not for everyone.  I do not fear the
christians or their beliefs in eternal damnation.  I want nothing to do
with a god that would even consider the idea of damning someone for
eternity.  I do not fear change, I relish it, that is why I changed from
being christian to being pagan.




-- 
All propositions are true in some sense, false in some sense and
meaningless in some sense.  
                               --Hagbard Celine H.M. S.H.
<this is a signature virus, to spread it, just copy into your sig-file>
Newsgroups: talk.religion.misc
From: ksand@apple.com (Kent Sandvik )
Subject: Re: What would you have said?
Date: Thu, 17 Dec 1992 04:47:15 GMT
Organization: (Evil Eye Creature from Mars, Inc.)
Followup-To: talk.religion.misc

In article <30998@nntp_server.ems.cdc.com>, pwhite@ems.cdc.com (Peter
White) wrote:
> Well, was she a witch or was she a Christian? If a Christian, with the
> same answers, as doubtless happened in the inquisition, her answers
> deserve consideration.

What I've read all it mattered was that you were a lonely spinster
living outside the village, and a viscous rumor started that you
practiced the black arts. Christian or non-Christian, the deal
was that you were not part of the social structure.

> It is interesting that if you want the Church to grow most slowly, the
> best thing to do is leave it alone. If you persecute Christians, the 
> Church grows more rapidly. If you martyr Christians, it grows even
> faster. Whatever, you do, the Church grows bringing people into the
> freedom and love that are in Christ.

I've also noted that the Church is slowly dying in Nordic countries,
mostly because there's no cultural or social pressure to belong to
the church, otherwise you were considered to be a strange being.

My ancestors were placed in chains outside the church (300 years ago)
if they didn't attend every Sunday morning sermon. Fortunately things
have changed, otherwise I would be the standard show case :-). Anyway,
you had a steady increase of people joining the church :-). And the
martyrs were actually those who dared to oppose this.

I do think that religions should be free to operate, but not on the
expense of the government. 

Kent
-------------------
Kent Sandvik (UUCP: ....!apple!ksand; INTERNET: ksand@apple.com)
DISCLAIMER: Private activities on the Net.		
"Don't just do something!  Stand there!"  -- Mystery Science Theater 3000
Newsgroups: talk.religion.misc
From: storrs@eos.ncsu.edu (JERRY STORRS)
Subject: Re: Bible verse for the day
Originator: storrs@c20002-121rd.che.ncsu.edu
Reply-To: storrs@eos.ncsu.edu (JERRY STORRS)
Organization: North Carolina State University, Project Eos
Date: Wed, 16 Dec 1992 15:55:56 GMT


As you will note, Gordon, the first passage addresses certain types of people.
I'll let you read it again.

Thank you, sir, for proving King Solomon correct.  God Bless you.  JLS
-- 

===============================================================================
Jerry L. Storrs, System/Network Manager || The virgin will be with child and 
Dept of Chemical Engineering, NCSU      || will give birth to a son, and they
   storrs@che.ncsu.edu (preferred)      || will call him Immanuel, which means
   storrs@eos.ncsu.edu                  || "God with us".
                                        ||                 Matthew 1:23
===============================================================================
Any statement made is the explicit belief of the writer and not the employer.
From: pgr@crhc.uiuc.edu (Paul Ryan)
Newsgroups: talk.religion.misc
Subject: Re: A Mother Speaks
Date: 15 Dec 1992 13:10:32 -0600
Organization: Center for Reliable and High-Performance Computing, University of Illinois at Urbana-Champaign
NNTP-Posting-Host: copland.crhc.uiuc.edu

cramer@optilink.COM (Clayton Cramer) writes:

>Why do you assume that gay-bashing is based on religion?  

I wouldn't say "based", I would say "substantially supported", and add
a note that most religious people do manage to refrain from violence of
all sorts.

A woman in the northeast did a study recently where she interviewed over
400 convicts imprisoned for violence against gays.

They reported that they didn't believe they had done anything wrong, and
that they felt that their religious and political leaders endorsed their
actions.

To be fair, I doubt that even Pat Robertson and Pat Buchanon fully appreciate
the role they play in whipping sentiments into the frenzy that leads to
violence, but I really don't think that excuses them.

Involuntary manslaughter is still manslaughter, incition to riot is still
a part of riot.  If our words create the climate, then the blood is on
our hands.

> The most "virulently and vocally against homosexuals" men I've met don't
> attend church, and are usually quite hostile to any form of organized
> religion.

And the most virulently and vocally anti-homosexual men I've met have used
God, religion and the Bible to justify their bigotry.  Last spring I spent
about 6 weeks dealing with death threats from a man citing the book of 
Leviticus and claiming that God had put him on earth to kill homosexuals.

-- 
Paul Ryan                  (pgr@crhc.uiuc.edu)     1308 West Main St.
Center for Reliable High-Performance Computing     Urbana, IL 61801
University of Illinois at Urbana-Champaign         (217) 244-7179
Newsgroups: talk.religion.misc,alt.atheism,alt.slack
From: ecasey@mailer.cc.fsu.edu (Edward Casey)
Subject: Re: You should be a Christian because (30 words max):
Organization: Florida State University
Date: Mon, 14 Dec 92 18:21:56 GMT

In article <1992Dec11.140927.21058@cs.cornell.edu> rodmoten@cs.cornell.edu (Roderick Moten) writes:
>Answer:
>
>To be Christ like and obtain a relationship with the Father.
>


Actually, I have a great relationship with my father.  We stay out of each
other's way most of the time, and occasionally get together for beer and
pretzels.  Sorry to hear your's is such a bucket head.  Have you considered
counseling to help you deal with the harsh memories of your abused childhood?

0		Glider
0 0
00		(ecasey@mailer.cc.fsu.edu)

(Or maybe he's abusing you even today?  I'd call the police, if I were you,
instead of trying to be like some guy that got nailed to a tree 2000 years
ago...)
Newsgroups: talk.religion.misc,alt.atheism,alt.slack
From: ecasey@mailer.cc.fsu.edu (Edward Casey)
Subject: Re: You should be a Christian because (30 words max):
Organization: Florida State University
Date: Mon, 14 Dec 92 18:18:56 GMT

In article <1992Dec11.054012.10468@microsoft.com> jenk@microsoft.com (Jen Kilmer) writes:
>Answer 1:
>
>There is a God-shaped hole in every person, and without God, a person
>is empty.
>

This, of course, comes from the "cookie cutter" school of creation theology;
God didn't MEAN to create us in his image, he just tripped over an unseen
spheroid (which turned out to be a yellowish, metallic fruit - funny, these
synchronicities!) into a giant bowl of dough.   

>Answer 2:
>
>Christianity is true.

"We're the only chosen few,
The rest of you are damned.
There's room in hell for all of you,
We won't have Heaven crammed."

Y'know... this board would be a lot less interesting without all these
talk.religion crossposts!

0		Glider
0 0
00		(ecasey@mailer.cc.fsu.edu)

(And a big 'Hail Eris' to you too!)

Newsgroups: talk.religion.misc
From: ksand@apple.com (Kent Sandvik )
Subject: Re: Problems with Paul's history of Jesus
Date: Sat, 12 Dec 1992 23:46:13 GMT
Organization: (Evil Eye Creature from Mars, Inc.)
Followup-To: talk.religion.misc

In article <1992Dec11.144111.9116@csrd.uiuc.edu>,
skinner@sp94.csrd.uiuc.edu (Gregg Skinner) wrote:
> I fail to see how he can justify rejecting another tradition's
> understanding of the trinity based on the teachings of a tradition he
> has himself rejected.

I'm justifying my statement based on formal Lutheran training.

> We have noted that Christianity is based on revelation.  I have never
> heard any widespread suggestion, however, that the revelation is
> complete.  Where the revelation is clear, it is held to be correct.
> In other areas, such as the exact relationship between Jesus, God, and
> the Holy Spirit, Christians attempt to increase their understanding
> using imagination and reason.

I think imagination is the right word, indeed.

Kent
-------------------
Kent Sandvik (UUCP: ....!apple!ksand; INTERNET: ksand@apple.com)
DISCLAIMER: Private activities on the Net.
From: rpitts@emperor.gatech.edu (Richard Pitts)
Newsgroups: talk.religion.misc
Subject: Re: You should be a Christian because (30 words max):
Date: 15 Dec 92 14:06:10 GMT
Organization: CERL-EE, Georgia Institue of Technology

[I don't have access to the alt groups.]

In article <1992Dec14.135939.1888@lut.ac.uk> A.J.Robinson@lut.ac.uk (Alan Robinson) writes:
|In article <1992Dec11.140927.21058@cs.cornell.edu> rodmoten@cs.cornell.edu (Roderick Moten) writes:
|>Answer:
|>
|>To be Christ like and obtain a relationship with the Father.
|
|But I don't want to be like Christ and I don't want a relationship
|with his dad.

What is there about either Jesus the Christ or the Father that you
don't want to be like or even know?  What does it require of you
to let go of?

For Christ and His Kingdom,
Richard Pitts
-- 
rpitts@cerl.gatech.edu      |  Love and Worship God, the Creator of the Earth. 
                          --|--   
Pro-Life!              -|-  |  -|-    Come bow down in worship, let us kneel
Pro-Responsibility!     |   |   |     before the Lord Our Maker.  Psalm 95:6
Organization: University of Maine System
Date: Monday, 14 Dec 1992 13:37:25 EST
From: World Leader <IK20050@MAINE.MAINE.EDU>
Newsgroups: talk.religion.misc
Subject: Re: Satan Persecutes Mormons

I used to think that, too....I figured if something was
the object of persecution, then it has to be right...

But let's think back on other movements that were persecuted
throughout history...were they right?

Communism?
Witchcraft?
Noriega?

---A.
Newsgroups: talk.religion.misc
From: sdoe@nmsu.edu (Stephen Doe)
Subject: Re: Heaven/Hell (was: Re: Perfect Love)
Organization: New Mexico State University
Distribution: world,public
Date: Sat, 12 Dec 1992 21:54:20 GMT

In article <1992Dec10.171541.7798@engage.pko.dec.com> pub@riscee.pko.dec.com (Publius) writes:
>In article <1992Dec10.021022.3866@nmsu.edu> sdoe@nmsu.edu (Stephen Doe) writes:
>>
>>Jesus' teachings of hell prominently feature pain and suffering, not
>>just separation from God.
>
>Where?  Where in the Bible did Jesus teach in the manner you described?
>If you can not find any Bible verse to support the above claim, as
>I don't believe you can, please refrain from making that irresponsible
>statement.

Gee whiz, are we reading the same book?

Matt. 5:22  . . . whoever says, "You fool!" shall be liable to the
hell of fire.

Matt. 8:11-12  I tell you, many will come and. . .sit at the table. .
. in the kingdom of heaven, while the sons of the kingdom will be
thrown into the outer darkness; there men will weep and gnash their
teeth.

Matt. 10:14-15  And if any one will not receive you or listen to your
words, shake off the dust from your feet as you leave that house or
town.  Truly I say to you, it shall be more tolerable on the day of
judgment for the land of Sodom and Gomorrah than for that town.

Matt. 10:28  And do not fear those who kill the body but cannot kill
the soul; rather fear him who can destroy both soul and body in hell. 

Matt. 12:36  I tell you, on the day of judgment men will render
account for every careless word they utter.

Matt 13:41-42 The Son of man will send his angels, and they will
gather out of his kingdom all causes of sin and evildoers, and throw
them into the furnace of fire; there they will weep and gnash their
teeth. 

Matt 23:33 You serpents, you brood of vipers, how are you to escape
being sentenced to hell?

Matt 25:41 Then he will say to those at his left hand, "Depart from
me, you cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his
angels.              ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
 
That's just Matthew.  Shall I go on, or is it blindingly obvious by
now?  Oh, I see what you're saying.  I'm not "interpreting" these
verses correctly.  Please be patient with me, I haven't learned to
love Big Brother yet!

Take the beam out of your own eye, and maybe you'll see these verses a
bit more clearly.

SD
Newsgroups: talk.religion.misc
From: pharvey@quack.sac.ca.us (Paul Harvey)
Subject: Isaiah does not prophesy Christ, was A Sharp Contrast to the Song of Solomon
Organization: The Duck Pond public unix: +1 408 249 9630, log in as 'guest'.
	<1992Dec12.042912.13466@midway.uchicago.edu> 
	<BzBDqF.ADG@usenet.ucs.indiana.edu>
Date: 16 Dec 1992 01:38:48 UTC

In article <BzBDqF.ADG@usenet.ucs.indiana.edu> 
creps@silver.ucs.indiana.edu (Steve Creps) writes:
>   That having been said, as to the Song of Songs "preceding Christ,"
>so does the book of Isaiah, but it still prophesies about Christ,
>especially around chapter 53.  So what's your point?

Only when poorly translated does Isaiah prophesy Christ.
Newsgroups: talk.religion.misc
From: ldh@eedsp.gatech.edu (Lonnie D Harvel)
Subject: Re: On faith  (was: ... least common denominator)
Organization: Georgia Institute of Technology - DSP
Date: Wed, 16 Dec 1992 18:41:46 GMT


Reason is only a tool of the intellect and not the intellect
itself.  There are other tools, namely

Inspiration
Intuition
Aesthetics

But then I also have a Fine Arts degree to go with my
Science degree.  Usually, reason is applied to art after
the fact by those who feel the need to justify it. 

Once again, I disagree with your statement concerning the
lack of intellectual integrity necessary for holding
a belief by faith.  This follows only from your definition
of intellectual integrity.


-- 
     The comments and spelling herein are mine and nobody
                     else lays claim to them.
================================================================
Lonnie D. Harvel                 |  ldh@eedsp.gatech.edu
Newsgroups: talk.religion.misc
From: ksand@apple.com (Kent Sandvik )
Subject: Re: Slaves to Jesus was Defining the kingdom of God
Date: Thu, 17 Dec 1992 04:06:01 GMT
Organization: (Evil Eye Creature from Mars, Inc.)
Followup-To: talk.religion.misc

In article <1992Dec16.020127.16844@cbnewsd.cb.att.com>,
press2@cbnewsd.cb.att.com (barry.o.olson) wrote:
> Apparantly J wasn't trying to be human, he was human in every
> sense of the word(and I'll qualify this time)except original
> sin. It would be logically impossible for him to have original sin.
> He most certainly could experience humanity without original sin. 
> Original sin just says humans are born with a propensity to disobey
> God and what god wants of his people. If J was born with this
> propensity, he could not qualify to buy back his people through
> the eternal sinless(spotless)sacrifice.

If I understood this correctly (please correct me if I'm wrong)
Jesus was human in every sense of the word, but he didn't have 
the fault of the original sin. So he wasn't human in every sense.

BTW, he wasn't even married, neither had children, so how could
he experience that important part of life? Neither (based on
the NT texts) did he ever fell in love with a women/man, another
pretty basic human interaction. Finally he wasn't even sired
by a man (born by a virgin), another pretty human attribute.

These are the things that makes me question that he was human 
in every sense. Actually, he was quite human, but the God-like
part is the one I'm skeptical about.

Kent
-------------------
Kent Sandvik (UUCP: ....!apple!ksand; INTERNET: ksand@apple.com)
DISCLAIMER: Private activities on the Net.		
"Don't just do something!  Stand there!"  -- Mystery Science Theater 3000