HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
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Newsgroups: bit.listserv.deaf-l
Date:         Wed, 30 Sep 1992 16:45:00 CDT
From:         CONLEY%MSUVX2@MEMSTVX1.BITNET
Subject:      Re: Second-stage problems in conversation

   Hello all,
        (Chris Lehfeldt's response to Omer)

>Omer states:

>>1. Those rare conversations which I could follow are SOOO BORRINNNGGGG.
>>   People take so long to make a point.  How are you coping with it?
        .
        .
>My response:
>Even as an oral deaf adult (altho I'm bilingual in ASL and English
>and bicultural in both deaf/hearing worlds), I find the same phenomenon.
>I find that 90% of conversations between hearing people are just "blab,
>blab" (no offense to those here) and I consider them just "space fillers"
>and I think that's probably because hearing people want to avoid 'pregnant
>silences.'  ;)   I see a lot of interaction between (when as an observer
>with an oral/sign interpreter present) hearing people in general, so I
>think those 'boring' conversations are just idle gossip, to make
>one's presence in the room comfortable, non-threatening as possible.

   Thank you!
   PLEASE, I'm hearing; (no offense taken). I sometimes wish I had an
   "off/on" button for my ears, so that I don't have to listen/'cope'
   with this rederick dogma!  From my understanding, the English language
   is one of the most difficult languages to learn. I believe that
   as some sort of insane game in life, we hearies enjoy this "making-up"
   new words to suit our own personal ideas, needs, etc....
        .
        .
        .
>                                                         When I 'interrupt'
>an ASL signer or an ASL deaf person is following my conversation (if its PSE)
>that ASL person interprets my 'talking at the same time' as a sign of
>rudeness whereas, in fact, it is *not* because it's part of hearing
>culture.  The first time it happened to me, my deaf ASL friend was pissed
>off at me for 'interrupting' her and it took a long time for us to discover
>what the problem was.  I honestly didn't realise that in Deaf culture (i.e.
>in ASL culture) it is considered inappropriate and rude (as if you are NOT
>listening to what I am saying/signing) to 'interrupt' or even mention/sign
>anything during the time your deaf person is signing to you.  Rather like
>the taboo on interrupting someone in a TDD conversation.

   There's an old saying, goes something like this: "When your mouth's
   in gear, your brain isn't!"  In essence, I truly don't think that
   you can comprehend someone else while your own mouth's going
   "90-to-nothing".

>Chris Lehfeldt
>cxlnvd@ritvax
                                        Thanks Chris.....good insight,
                                        Steven Conlee
                                        CONLEY@MEMSTVX1.MEMST.EDU
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Subject: Re: phone answering machine
From: zevpeter@chen.bgu.ac.il (Bill Peter)
Date: Wed, 30 Sep 1992 19:11:27 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: Ben Gurion University, Beer Sheva, Israel
Originator: zevpeter@chen.bgu.ac.il


In article <1992Sep30.041029.12662@leland.Stanford.EDU>, tedebear@leland.stanford.edu (Theodore Chen) writes:
|>
|> hi, guys.  i'm in the market for a phone answering machine.
|> i'm trying to find one that will play back messages through
|> the phone... *my* phone.  that means i want to be able to
|> come in, pick up the phone, and play back my messages and hear
|> it on the phone.
|>
|> seems like a rather unusual way, doesn't it?  it's pretty simple.
|> i can understand better with my hearing aid set to inductive coupling
|> (set to "T") than with the low fidelity speaker of the answering machine.

     Here's an idea which should work.  Find a telephone with an exterior speaker
     jack (if you can).  Then plug a wire into the jack and loop the wire around
     your room.  Set your hearing aid to "T" and the wire should induce a current
     in your hearing aid coil.

     This is also a good way to hear compact disks on a stereo system without
     using speakers (if you have a hearing aid).
--
Bill Peter
Physics Department
Ben-Gurion University, Beersheva, Israel.
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Date:         Tue, 6 Oct 1992 21:13:20 -0400
From:         CXLNVD@RITVAX.BITNET
Subject:      Re: KA-BLOOIE! (Luckily, Not!)

Hehehe - thank your lucky stars that you did'nt explode with your apartment
full of gas, and your sleeping through it all!  That's one reason NOT to
smoke, guys! ;)

Being deaf and living alone has its disadvantages too... I sometimes leave
the water faucet/spigot on all night, and then I wake up and find the bedroom fl
   oor all sodden with water!  Even worse, one morning, I was on my way to work,
in a rush, and I left the water running in the kitchen -- and when I returned
home, I found the basement flooded with water and just luckily, I had the
presence of mind (well.... that's another story) to have all my possessions
and boxes off the floor on raised 2x2 boards!  That "leaving the water tap
on" really burns me up, and I look forward to the day when the price of
"motion sensitive" spigots goes down.  They work this way: you move your hands
under the faucet and the water instantly turns on!  Rather like when you
go to highway rest stops (ahem, sorry females!), and when you're done
peeing, and move away from the urinal, the water flush mechanism turns on
and washes all your residue away!

Let this not start a "string from hell" about the differences in female and
male bathroom amenities! ;)

Chris Lehfeldt
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Newsgroups: bit.listserv.deaf-l
Date:         Fri, 2 Oct 1992 14:45:06 EDT
From:         askwersk@ATHENA.MIT.EDU
Subject:      Re: parental motivation
              30 Sep 92 19:38:06 +0700. <9209302137.AA01178@Athena.MIT.EDU>

Omer:
> My parents went the oral route on advice from the experts.
Lew:
>     Bottom line, all things considered, are you saying this was -- or was
>not -- in your best interest?


I'd like to respond to this. My case is slightly different becuase I was not
born deaf, so by the time I was ready for kindergarten I could speak and
(almost) hear like the rest of the kids. However by the time I got to middle
school it became very difficult to interact with the student body. However I
remained in that school for the rest of my pre college career. I graduated
with 3.92 GPA and was one of the graduation speakers.

Bottom Line is, I am now attending MIT and have a B+ average. I guess I am
a good example of somebody brought up orally. However I DONT really much on
lipreading because I grew up with a lot of hearing. I am still learning how to
lipread. Currently, however, I'm not very good at it, but trying to become
better at it. The way I see it now, is that there are two worlds, as in
the Dickens novel "Great Expectations". The lawyers assistant was quite
serious while he was on the job, but back at home he had a paradise for
a house! This is how I see my future...On the job, being serious and
participating orally with my co-workers, but back at home signing with my
deaf friends.


LEW:
>     Is it egoistical, selfish and wrong to want your offspring to be
>Jewish?

I think deafness and Judaism are different enough to answer YES for
oral method, but NO for Judaism. Judaism does not require certain abilities
from a person. All people can be jewish, regardless of ability. However
forcing deaf/HOH people into an environment which requires certain abilities
they do not have is, in my opinion selfish.

Note I said "forcing a deaf person". By letting the deaf/HOH person realize
themself they need oral skills is, in my opinion, a more positive experience
for the deaf/hoh person. I am an example of that. I realized myself I needed
to participate in both worlds. My parents did not force me to do anything.

Adam Skwersky
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.deaf-l
From: sjones@alfred.carleton.ca (Stan Jones)
Subject: Implants
Organization: Carleton University
Date: Tue, 6 Oct 1992 17:02:16 GMT

For anyone who can tune into a CBC (Canadian Broadcasting) station,
tonight's (Tuesday October 6) repeat of Peter Gzowski's Morningside
will include a discussion (many views included) of cochlear implants.
The show is on at 10:00 in the eastern time zone.  I'm not sure of the
time elsewhere.
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Date:         Tue, 6 Oct 1992 16:33:00 CDT
From:         CONLEY%MSUVX2@MEMSTVX1.BITNET
Subject:      RE:KA-BLOOIE! (Luckily, Not!)

        Lisamarie Babik,
          WELCOME BACK TO THE WORLD!!!
          Sorry to hear about your "killer stove"!
          I think we're all glad your still here;  besides, what
          would we do without your "COW" jokes. (I'm still laughing
          at that one....care to .sig it again?)
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Newsgroups: bit.listserv.deaf-l
Date:         Mon, 5 Oct 1992 11:33:00 EDT
From:         David James <ALAMA10@HUMAIN.BITNET>
Subject:      Skepticism of Henry Kisor

A week or so ago, Lew Golan mentioned that some advocates of sign
language had accused Henry Kisor of lying about his life in his
autobiography _What's That Pig Outdoors: A Memoir of Deafness_.

Joseph Riolo indicated in response that he feels that Kisor at
least embellished the story of his life in order to make the book
more entertaining and hence easier to sell. (I hope that I
correctly understood what Joseph intended to say.)

Joseph, could you tell me a little more? That is, can you give me
some examples of things Kisor said in his book that you think
could not have been the way he says they were?

I should probably say that I'm not trying to start an argument
about what actually happened in Henry Kisor's life. Rather, I'm
interested in how Joseph (and perhaps others) _perceive_ Kisor's
account of his experiences.

--David James
ALAMA10@HUMAIN.BITNET
DMJAMES@GALLUA.BITNET
From: DMIMI@ECSVAX.BITNET (Miriam Clifford)
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.deaf-l
Subject: Re: John Tracy Clinic
Date: 1 Oct 92 21:34:55 GMT
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Keith, you've got it!
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Date:         Mon, 28 Sep 1992 20:09:58 -0400
From:         "(Seth Gordon)" <sethg@SILVER.LCS.MIT.EDU>
Subject:      RE:question on vocabulary
              28 Sep 1992 07:23:39 -0600 <9209281341.AA20365@silver.lcs.mit.edu>

I've seen a sign using the "feeling" hand (same handshape as in "sick",
"what's-up", etc.) with the tip of the middle finger rising from the
lips straight up to the forehead.

At LBG Pride rallies, I've seen some interpreters sign "bisexual" by
using the H and B hanshapes and a motion resembling a person (H)
jumping back and forth over a fence (B).  Unfortunately, most straight
Deaf people I've met don't recognize this sign, and I have to use
plain old "B I SEX".
--
seth gordon ... <sethg@silver.lcs.mit.edu>   ... .sig under construction;
mit bs '91  ... learning ctr 4 deaf children ... pardon the inconvenience
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Newsgroups: bit.listserv.deaf-l
Date:         Fri, 25 Sep 1992 17:01:00 CDT
From:         CONLEY%MSUVX2@MEMSTVX1.BITNET
Subject:      RE:question on vocabulary

        Hello all,
        (In response to Kirk) (If this subject annoys you...DON'T READ IT!)

>From:         The Shadow <THESHADO@CORRAL.UWYO.EDU>
>Subject:      question on vocabulary
>
>I'm curious.  In my vocabulary of sex signs, I know three for gay or homosexual
>that are often construed as derogatory by homosexuals, and I know one that
>is more common in the eastern part of the US than the western, and is most
>often used only by homosexuals when referring to one-another.  Does anyone
>know any signs, other than a figerspelled G-A-Y, that means homosexual in
>a nonderogatory sense?
>
>Kirk Haines
>theshado@outlaw.uwyo.edu

        Interesting question.   I have seen several myself.

      1.The "upside-down" "Q" to the chin; --Queer--
      2.The "G" to the chin, (with index finger touching); --Gay--
      3.The "L" with the palm on the front of the chin;  --Lesbian--
        (this next one's cute and comical)
      4.The "I" first touching the tip of the tongue, then across the eyebrow
        as if to make it straight, then, across the "beau-font" or the
        hairdo; (don't really know what the "I"'s for?)  --Fairy--

      5.Dominant hand with "upside-down" "U"/ with a revolving "C-shape"
        in back of the "U",(implying one's booty);  --Prissy--

        That's all from me, although, I have seen a Baptist preacher use
        one similar to the 4th one; yet with a "sinful" expression.?.?
        (Things that make ya go Hhhhmmmmmmm?)

        BTW, you didn't mention the signs you knew.....huh?


                                        See ya,
                                        Steven Conlee
                                        CONLEY@MEMSTVX1.MEMST.EDU
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Date:         Wed, 30 Sep 1992 09:28:17 -0400
From:         "Esther A. Paris" <esther@RAYSSD.SSD.RAY.COM>
Subject: Re: phone answering machine

Teddy, regarding answering machines where the caller's voices
are digitized and then you can listen through your phone...

Does your local telephone company offer voicemail service?

Here in Massachusetts and Rhode Island (area codes 617, 508, and
401 (at least parts of these three areas)) have voice mail service
provided by New England Telephone that picks up for you if you
are not answering the phone or if you are on the phone (and the
caller would otherwise get a busy signal).  It is available as
a service for a few dollars a month.  It is heavily advertised
on TV.  I have one friend who has this service and he says it's
exactly like the service we use at work (Meridian Mail) and so
he's very happy with his $5 (give or take) investment each month.
Maybe it's worth checking into with your local phone company.
I don't know much more about it, but it sounds like it might
meet your needs if it is presently available or if your local
phone company just needs a little nudge to forth and implement
it.  Best wishes,  Esther Paris, Raytheon EDL, Marlborough, MA
esther@demand.ed.ray.com
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Date:         Wed, 30 Sep 1992 22:35:10 +0200
From:         Omer Zak <XLACHA1@WEIZMANN.WEIZMANN.AC.IL>
Subject:      Re: Text interpretation

Hello Jan,
It is not so clear what exactly do you mean by text interpretation.
However, I developed software which supports multilingual Computer
Assisted Notetaking.  This software was used during the International
Congress of the Hard of Hearing which was held in Jerusalem, Israel,
during August 1992.
I also want to start a project which utilizes speech recognition by
computer (assisted by human operator, who would correct computer's
errors somehow).  I am interested in any available information about
speech recognition hardware and software which is commercially available
and which has large (at least 30 000 words) vocabulary.
                                                     --- Omer
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Date:         Wed, 30 Sep 1992 00:01:01 +0200
From:         Omer Zak <XLACHA1@WEIZMANN.WEIZMANN.AC.IL>
Subject:      Re: parental motivation

I believe I was the one who 'accused' parents who prefer oral methods
of selfishly desiring their deaf child to be like them.
Perhaps I should have qualified what I said in the above.  I know well
about one counterexample:  my parents.  They went the oral route, even
isolating me from a signing deaf relative (cousin of my mother, who
lost her hearing due to menigitis) and not having me and another deaf
boy (who subsequently studied in the Technion when I was there) in the
same class and the same school (but in widely separated schools in
Jerusalem).  My parents went the oral route on advice from the experts.
When they saw that oral doesn't work well for me socially, they encouraged
me to go to Gallaudet (and I choosed the Technion instead).

However it is very small leap of faith/imagination/logic to assume that
parents who want their offspring to follow the same religious beliefs
as them, and to hold the same values as them - would also want their
offspring to be as 'hearing' as they are.
                                                --- Omer
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Date:         Mon, 28 Sep 1992 07:38:04 -0600
From:         The Shadow <THESHADO@CORRAL.UWYO.EDU>
Subject: Re: ... and quality of DEAF-L newsgroup

>sci.military.science
>rec.sports.basketball.college
>rec.sports.basketball.pro
>rec.sports.football.college
>rec.sports.football.pro
>rec.disney
>rec.aviation
>rec.aeronautics
>sci.engineering
>sci.physics

BINGO!  All of those are USENET newgroups.  USENET newsgroups tend to be
inherently different from LISTSERV moderated mailing lists, which is what
deaf-l is.  Notice that you access the list through the group
bit.listserv.deaf-l.  It is being gated over to a USENET group in order
to make the list more widely available.
In general (thought there are vast exceptions to this) listserv lists tend
to be more broad in the subjects covered under one heading both because
there aren't 3000+ listserv lists for ever subject imaginable, unlike
USENET, and because more people utilize USENET than utilize listserv lists.

>By comparison, DEAF-L is a little newsgroup or whatever it is called.
>DEAF-L has become a place for some people to bring up some subjects
>that are not really appropriate for DEAF-L.  I want to see DEAF-L stay
>on the subject of deafness.

Not really appropriate for deaf-l?  I think that a lot of this discussion
is because some people think that many of the LBG posts were at least
tangentially relevant.

>This is what I am complaining about.  It is just a big waste of my time
>having to go through all of the garbage just to get to the good parts.

So don't read the posts that pertain to things you aren't interested in.
Most of the LBG material was clearly labeled LBG.


Kirk Haines
theshado@outlaw.uwyo.edu
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Date:         Mon, 28 Sep 1992 17:39:00 BSC
Reply-To:     gomide@BRFapq.BITNET
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Comments:     Warning -- original Sender: tag was GOMIDE@BRFAPQ
From:         gomide@FPSP.FAPESP.BR
Subject:      Apologies re: InterMeta course

PLEASE DO NOT SEND MONEY !
It is with regret that I perform this task. Dr. Gelson V. Gomes. a
professor of the University of Parana, Brazil, has exceeded this
privileges and announced a eletronic course:

> ____________________________________________________________
>        Mastering INTERNET Tools, Seizing METANET Power -
>                      The InterMeta Course
> ____________________________________________________________

I must apologize for this flagrant breach of network etiquette. Please
be aware that Dr. Gelson had no right to do so, since this is against
the rules of our ANSP network, and also against the Bitnet rules.
PLEASE DO NOT SEND MONEY!
I will not discuss what his motivations were. But his account has been
revoked, and there will be no such course through my network.

Please write by normal mail, to:
-> Gelson V. Gomes
-> 358, R. Alvaro Andrade - ap.1201
-> Curitiba PR BRAZIL 80610-240
to get more information on his objectives. He may want to give the
course by normal mail.  :-)

With regards,
--
Alberto Courrege Gomide | Fundacao de Amparo `a Pesquisa - (11)831-3357
Software Supervisor     | Rua Pio XI, 1500 - CEP 05468-901 - Sao Paulo
<gomide@fapq.fapesp.br> | FAX (11)261-4167 Telex (11)82014 - Brazil
(ACG8) - .BR Domain Technical Contact. |
--
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Newsgroups: bit.listserv.deaf-l
Date:         Mon, 28 Sep 1992 19:46:14 -0400
From:         "(Seth Gordon)" <sethg@SILVER.LCS.MIT.EDU>
Subject:      Vounteering to firefighting etc.
              26 Sep 1992 19:25:09 +0200 <9209261744.AA08218@silver.lcs.mit.edu>

    And I am sure that some people out in the
    hearing world would classify engineering in the same vein because engineers
    have to participate so often in meetings and be in contact with so many
    other people during the course of their jobs.

Depends on the situation...if, for instance, a particular engineering
work group made heavy use of e-mail, a deaf worker might fit in
without much trouble.  Larger firms, such as Digital and AT&T, provide
interpreters for deaf workers at meetings.  (I suspect that before the
Americans with Disabilities Act went into effect, they were required
to do this because they are big government contractors, and the
Vocational Rehab Act therefore requires them to make "reasonable
accommodations" for disabled workers.)

I believe Keith Watt, formerly of NASA, can give more reliable info.
--
seth gordon ... <sethg@silver.lcs.mit.edu>   ... .sig under construction;
mit bs '91  ... learning ctr 4 deaf children ... pardon the inconvenience
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Date:         Sun, 27 Sep 1992 04:40:09 -0600
From:         /PN=BRENDA.L.MONENE/O=DEAFTEK/ADMD=TELEMAIL/C=US/@SPRINT.COM
Subject:      Re: Vounteering to firefighting etc.

 <"HGJC-5438-1167/36"*/PN=BRENDA.L.MONENE/O=DEAFTEK/ADMD=TELEMAIL/C=US/@sprint.c
 om>

Omer...the Gallaudet Infirmary is named after Peter J. Fine M.D. and he was
deaf  (actually a deafened adult).

Maybe someone from Gallaudet can fill you in on the details.

Brenda
From: 11CWATT@GALLUA.BITNET (Keith Watt - Gallaudet Dept. of Education)
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.deaf-l
Subject: Re: RE:question on vocabulary
Date: 28 Sep 92 16:17:53 GMT
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Kirk -

>The one I mentioned that is mostly used among homosexuals, and more in
>the East than the West, is a simply tugging on the earlobe with the thumb
>and forefinger.

Which is also the sign for BIRTHDAY in at least Pennsylvania and Arizona.
Bet that makes for some confusion..

Keith

(P.S.  Hi folks!  I'm back!  I'm finally working on my grad degree
full-time.  More later...)

===============================================================================
Keith Watt                              |
Gallaudet University                    | "Exit, pursued by a bear."
Department of Education                 |     Stage direction in Shakespeare's
                                        |     _The Winter's Tale_ (1611)
BITNET:                                 |
11CWATT@GALLUA.BITNET                   |
===============================================================================
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