HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: shore@dinah.tc.cornell.edu (Melinda Shore)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: Sometimes...
Date: 19 Aug 92 22:09:39 GMT
Article-I.D.: tc.1992Aug19.220939.15157
Reply-To: shore@tc.cornell.edu
Organization: Cornell Theory Center

In article <1992Aug19.131946.38995@ns1.cc.lehigh.edu>, dh0a@ns1.cc.lehigh.edu (DONALD L. HARDY) writes:

some stuff about misbehaving hets.  They're so icky, aren't
they?

On the other hand, I was sitting in the local hippie bank
today going through mortgage madness, and just outside the
window were four young women in leather.  *Lots* of leather.
I mean chaps, collars, the works.  And there they were,
hanging all over each other on State Street in downtown
Ithaca.  I'm just a dowdy, bookish dyke without an outrageous
item in my wardrobe (dressage whip collection aside, as it's
entirely functional), but I really loved those women.

> Of course, when contractors come into the office I am THINKING all of the
> drooling and slobbering.  I just don't say it out loud.

Perhaps the time has come to do so.
 
> Just feeling a little annoyed and political today.

Hang onto the feeling - with a little righteous living,
you can feel annoyed and political every day.
-- 
       Melinda Shore - Cornell Theory Center - shore@tc.cornell.edu
From: joelp@cs.man.ac.uk (Joel Parthemore || Pharos Project)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: Chomsky sighting (was, becoming a linguist)
Date: 13 Aug 92 22:25:09 GMT

katbea@auto-trol.com (Kathy Beatty) writes:

>   thaaang@cwis.unomaha.edu (John Dorrance) writes:
>       : Chomsky's on usenet? How cool! I read his interview in Rolling Stone.
>       : Smart man.
>       :
>       : John, being irrevelant, *again*.
>       :
>   But never irrelevant!!!

*Chomsky* *on* *USENET*?  A *sighting*?  Where!!!!?????  Arghh, I've only just
gotten back to the real world of computers and email....

Joel,

    who isn't too sure about Government-Binding (looks like mathematical
        mayhem?) but once brought his Navy-computing brother a Chomsky
        book to try to improve his political education
From: roger@quantime.co.uk (Roger Phillips)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: Whizzzzzzz ( was Re: Introduction)
Date: 17 Aug 92 21:00:14 GMT
Reply-To: roger@quantime.co.uk (Roger Phillips)
Organization: Quantime Ltd, London (software for market research)

In article <pedant-moi@vadier.gr.osf.org>,
emcmanus@gr.osf.org (Eamonn McManus, pedant-lui) skewers FJ!!:
> fjvwing@cs.vu.nl (FJ!!) writes:
> >This line is so...
> >>   Pour regeler mon chauffage centrale.
> >cheezy. I mean, gawd, 'for my central heating' ! It's almost painful.
> 
> Not to mention that "centrale" should be "central".  Oh, I did mention
> it.  Sorry.
> ,
> Eamonn, compulsively pedantic

I *was* resisting, but now I can't:
should that be "regeler"
(meaning, presumably, "regelating", i.e. "re-freezing"),
or "reguler"
(meaning, as Jess has earlier implied, "regulating")?

Hoping to be regaled with rigorous replies,
-- 
Roger Phillips                            roger@quantime.co.uk
"dick, (slang) n. fine words (for *dictionary*):  also for *declaration*,
as _to take one's dick_, and prob. _up to dick_, excellent (up to
declared value)." -- Chambers English Dictionary (1988)
From: phi@sage.cc.purdue.edu (Steven Mancini)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Ok, I did it.
Keywords: gay symbols, pride
Date: 22 Aug 92 21:50:28 GMT
Organization: Purdue University Computing Center


     After reading a number of articles on gay symbols, signs, badges, buttons, 
and shirts, I finally dug my pink triangle buttons out of the closet. (apt, 
huh?)  Anyway, I decided that the least I could do was to start wearing them 
again.  Something that I haven't done in about five years.  
     Anyway, I had thought that I had come to grips with the world at large,
and the community that I live in.  Boy, was I wrong.  Five years ago when I 
first started coming out, and announcing to whomever would listen that I Was
gay and I Was proud of it, I wore the buttons openly, proudly, almost
defiantly.  Today that changed.  As a was walking through the grocery stores
"proudly" supporting the fight for gay rights and the fight against AIDS, I
became aware of how nervous I was, and how tense.  I realized that I was 
watching other people's faces to see whether or not they were looking at my 
button.
     Now, don't get me wrong, Nobody said/did anything about the fact that I
was wearing a pink triangle.  It was totally me and my paranoia.  I started
worrying about the little things that I haven't worried about since I had 
come out;  was I swishing too much, was I staring too long at the good-looking
guys, would someone start something I didn't want to get into?  Jeez, now I
remember why I'm not as militant as some of my friends...I'd have a nervous
breakdown.  
     It's easier, I guess, to sit in the background, playing straight, and
let others fight for your (and their) rights.  I guess, that there will always
be someone who is willing to do the things that I am not willing to do, but
that I know need to be done.  I know that I will not, probably ever, be able 
to do some of the things that I know need to be done, but for today...
     After all, that is what's important, Today.  But, for today, I can, at 
least keep wearing this button.  And I pray to whatever may be there, that 
I once again can wear it not only proudly, but comfortably.

     Thank you for listening,
     Patrick.

Using a friend's account.  Thanks Steve.
From: joelp@cs.man.ac.uk (Joel Parthemore || Pharos Project)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: folks, cemetery plots and marriage (was, the "oh" experience)
Date: 12 Aug 92 22:46:54 GMT

markm@ogicse.ogi.edu (Mark Morrissey), the Great Rescuer, writes:

....

>Mom: So, are their any new girls in your love life I should know about?

>Me: No Mom, no women in my love life.

>Mom: Oh?

>Me: I think there is something I should tell you, Mom.

>Mom: Oh.

>Me: You see, Mother, I am gay, so there probably aren't going to be any
>    women in my love life in the near or distant future.

>Mom: Oh!

Wow....  Is this really how you came out to your mom, or am I misreading this?

>Given that she has "found Christ" in a major way after her divorce eight
>years ago, I am sure that I will get a long letter once she has spoken
>to her priest.  So far, her major concern is that I can't be buried in
>the family plot, which is in a Catholic cemetary.

Can't be buried?...  Why, by whose rules?  I recall something about RCs not
being too keen on burying suicide victims on holy ground....  Otherwise they
bury other sinners, don't they?

I didn't find the courage whilst ``home'' to ask if I was still in the family
will.  My folks threatened to cut out my sister, and all she did was become a
Sister.  Well, I figure, if they were worried about her not having children
and thus the family heirlooms passing out of the family, seemed like I was
another good candidate....

>As a point of closing, the reason this subject has been personna non grata
>is that she used to ask "And when are you going to get married and have
>kids".  Eventually, I responded with "There are no codependencies here,
>Mother".  This phrase has more or less reached legend status in my family
>since she wouldn't admit to not knowing what it meant and called my brother
>to find out.

Lord, I get tired of *not* being asked the ``when are you going to get
married'' question, if only for the possible responses it suggests.  Lots of
folk around ``home'' seem to have written me off as asexual.  (Actually my old
yearbook advisor did ask me, which quite flattered me; but I swallowed the
most accurate reply, on grounds that it was a 'phone call and she was heading
out the door and the timing didn't seem right....

....

I had an ``oh'' conversation of my own with my sister, shortly before the con:

    ME:   Yeah, I'm going to a computer newsgroup conference out in Portland.
    JUDY: What do you mean by a ``newsgroup''?
    ME:   Well, it's a sort of ``bulletin-board space'' where people exchange
            questions and engage in long discussions.  This one is called
            soak-m-o-t-s-s.  I've been reading it for almost a year.
    JUDY: What's that stand for?
    ME:   ``Members of the same sex''.
    JUDY: Oh!

The conversation quickly changed direction.


>--mark

 --joel
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: amz@cis.ohio-state.edu (Arnold M Zwicky)
Subject: net queen??
Followup-To: soc.motss
Summary: there are many titles in our family
Originator: amz@iguana.cis.ohio-state.edu
Organization: still improving, day by day
Date: Tue, 18 Aug 1992 02:21:35 GMT

some *nasty* boy thinks that i think that i have been appointed,
or have appointed myself, Net Queen.

well, first of all, this person (who can't distinguish requests
from commands anyway, and seems to have a very odd idea about
how usenet works, as if *my* voice could still his with a few
keystrokes) doesn't understand that there are *no* Net Persons.

but of course there are Motss Persons.  there is no position of Net
Queen, but there is a (conceptual, and currently unfilled) position of
Motss Queen.  

what this silly *boy* doesn't understand is that such positions are
filled not by appointment but by ACCLAMATION.  we all come to
recognize that they fit the roles, and we applaud them.

clay bond had a long term as Motss Curmudgeon.  melinda shore is
currently reigning as Motss Harpy.  and a growing chorus of applause
suggests that arne adolphson will be our next Motss Grand Faggot
(although i have coveted this position, i started training for it
rather too late; deep public sighs).  the position of Motss Great Dyke
has gone unfilled for years because of an almost even balance between
the chorus for amelia smith and the one for wendy thrash.

these positions are entirely ceremonial.  they have no power
whatsoever.  they are pure celebrations of roles, personas,
archetypes.  complaining to your Motss Harpy will not get your septic
tank working again, nor will it call up an army of lesbigays to fight
on your behalf, or anything in between.  people who fill these
positions are there to embody dreams, not to get the goddam dishes
washed.

there *are* useful day-to-day motss-positions: consulting equestrian,
consulting safe-sex-advocate, consulting linguist, consulting
ecologist, consulting queer-activist, consulting leather-person,
consulting gardener, and so on.  these are not appointed either, nor
acclaimed; instead, they arise spontaneously out of current needs.
typically, they are filled by a committee rather than an individual,
and the committee's membership is always unclear and always shifting.
we hear their voices, but we're not quite sure who they are, and
anyway tomorrow they'll be someone else.

can you deal with that, ignorant boy?

arnold [getting angry again, inside these crude square brackets]









Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: shore@theory.TC.Cornell.EDU (Melinda Shore)
Subject: Re: Redefining masculinity
Keywords: internalized homophobia, self-loathing
Organization: Cornell Theory Center
Date: Fri, 14 Aug 1992 23:50:07 GMT

In article <l8og7kINN4nj@mizar.usc.edu> adolphso@mizar.usc.edu (adolphson) writes:
> Fem gays just can't get themselves
>together enough to be butch, er, normal-acting and masculine.  

Speak for yourself, Arne.  I do it all the time.
-- 
       Melinda Shore - Cornell Theory Center - shore@tc.cornell.edu
From: jakec@ralvmm.vnet.ibm.com (Jake Coughlin)
Subject: Re: Freedom (was Re: Gay Homophobia)
Originator: jakec@ralvmm.vnet.ibm.com
Date: Sun, 23 Aug 92 15:57:54 GMT
Organization: IBM T. J. Watson Research

bobsarv@microsoft.com (Bob Sarver):
> Actually, jake, after reading your post it appears you have nothing
> to say at all . . .

on the contrary, bub, it would appear that i caught *you*
with your pants down...
-- 
Jason Coughlin ( jakec@ralvmm.vnet.ibm.com )
Queer Without A Cause!
"I find myself suddenly in the world, and I recognize that I have one
right alone: that of demanding human behavior of the other." -- Fanon
From: Furr@cup.portal.com (George Dalton Madison)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: Trip to Portland/Seattle
Date: Thu, 13 Aug 92 19:38:09 PDT
Organization: The Portal System (TM)
Distribution: usa
  <63838@cup.portal.com> <1992Aug13.165718.25609@nevada.edu>

Shawn Hicks writes:
>>GRRR!!  Why wasn't I told this *BEFORE* motss.con?  ;-{(##]
>
>George, dude, Please. We thought you *knew* about it... if anyone
>had to know it was *you*.

** HOW **?  Before the .con, I knew precisely *ONE* person
in Portland.... who doesn't LIKE the PDX Eagle.

"Never ASSUME -- you make an ASS out of U and ME!"
     -- Felix Unger

>his friend, FURR, who he was with at the bear hug. Naturally I had to
>ask, "you mean George Madison?", to which he nodded and looked astonished.

Hmm.... actually, this is starting to sound more like someone
else.... I don't suppose this bear was either wearing fireman's
gear or was referred to in your presence as "Sparky," was he?
If it was the same guy, he was great fun to piss on.  ;-{)##]

I mean, I only played with three bears at that PDX 'Hug [I know,
I know -- you're all shocked] and of the three, I think that only
Sparky would be referred to by others as a "hunk".  (Benny is
very attractive and in good shape, but not quite _impressive_
enough in that way that gets you called a "hunk" -- and I never
got 'round to exchanging names with the third furball. ;-{)##]
 
() An artist is a creature driven by demons. He don't
() usually know why they chose him and he's usually too busy
() to wonder why.
()      -- William Faulkner
-----
[> George D. Madison | NBCS: B8f+t+w-e+s+k+a!cv | Just say NO to razors! <]
[> It's a BEAR thing -- you wouldn't understand. <|> furr@cup.portal.com <]
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: greed@bnr.ca (Graham Reed)
Subject: Re: New queer terminology (was Re: The media, again)
Reply-To: greed@bnr.ca (Graham Reed)
Organization: Bell-Northern Research Ltd.
Distribution: na
Date: Wed, 19 Aug 92 20:38:07 GMT

In article <1992Aug19.143235.16523@microsoft.com>, frankm@microsoft.com (Frank R.A.J. Maloney) writes:
|> In article <4597@news.duke.edu> John_Graves@cellbio.duke.edu writes:
|> >In article <1992Aug16.225820.13089@reed.edu> nelson@reed.edu (Nelson Minar)
|> >writes:
|> >Is the signified the signifier?
|> 
|> "How can we know the dancer from the dance?"
                    ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
I read the whole novel and I still don't know...

-- 
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
| Graham Reed   Internet: greed@bnr.ca | My opinions are my own...      |
|     Bell-Northern Research (BNR)     |    I paid good money for them! |
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
This email address will become invalid as of Friday, August 21.
Sorry, no forwarding address.
From: twpierce@amhux1.amherst.edu (Tim Pierce)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: Attitude Rebuked (was Re: On Banning Private Discrimination)
Date: 14 Aug 92 22:35:21 GMT
Organization: Amherst College, Amherst MA

In article <1992Aug12.134318.6228@fig.citib.com> glp@fig.citib.com (Greg Parkinson) writes:
>
>In article <1992Aug11.052112.16592@rigel.econ.uga.edu>, hughes@dogwood.botany.uga.edu (Wayne Hughes) writes:
>|> In article <1992Aug10.145058.13265@fig.citib.com> glp@fig.citib.com (Greg Parkinson) writes:
>|>    [...]
>|> >I won't forget, sir.  But I don't figure out any way
>|> >to butch up that statement, so I guess I can't respond
>|> >to it. 
>|> 
>|>     More semicolons.
>
>More?  I find semicolons give a deliciously *arch*
>feeling, and arch is *not* butch.

Try exclamation points.

T. "Nothin's butcher than a bang"

-- 
____ Tim Pierce                / "Bisexual just means you pay for it."
\  / twpierce@amherst.edu      /  
 \/ (BITnet: TWPIERCE@AMHERST) /   -- Rock Hudson
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: lam@popeye.comm.mot.com (Dan Lam)
Subject: Re: AM/CM - Gay Colonialism?
Organization: Land Mobile Products Sector, Motorola INC.
Distribution: na
Date: Thu, 20 Aug 1992 22:26:45 GMT

In article <1992Aug19.172659.19513@noose.ecn.purdue.edu> sgsying@chirpz.ecn.purdue.edu (Goangshiuan Ying) writes:
>
>In article <1992Aug18.151734.15840@lmpsbbs.comm.mot.com>
>lam@popeye.comm.mot.com (Dan Lam) writes:
>>In article <64177@cup.portal.com> Arthur_T_Hu@cup.portal.com writes:
>>>
>>>gay Asians in the country (think about it - where are all the
>>>Asians who are Americanized enough to be gay? They're not in SF, they
>>                ^^^^^^^^^^^^
>>>probably went to engineering school like all good Asian-Am boys, and
>>>work in Silicon Valley!) 
>>>
>>
>>You are what you are.  You dont need to be AMERICANIZED engouh to be
>>what you are.  Come on Arthur, you make it sounds like homosexuality is an
>>American thing.  I am sure gay asians exist.
>>
>
>I knew I was gay when I was 8.  I didn't know what `American' was back then. 
>There are many others like me.  
	Thanks for proving my point.
>
>Who is Mr. Hu?  Why he always tries to speak for the Asian?  Why does he 
>always mix the subjects of homosexuality and race together?  
>
>Shawn
>--

Hu seems to be Mr. knows-everything-about-Asian-American.

You may ask who I am?  -- just someone that doesn't believe in any kinds of
stereotype.

 PS:  how did this thread ever got started here?

	
--
| Dan Lam                  __o     | Ok, ok I am not Dan O'Brian.  Reebok
|                       (*)/ (*)   | Nikes just to be like Mike.  Mike
| Chicago, Il                      | who?  Mike Dodd. 
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
From: rdonahue@spdcc.com (Bob Donahue)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: Too straight looking to be gay??? (was re: UNGAY GAY)
Date: 15 Aug 92 02:11:29 GMT
Article-I.D.: spdcc.1992Aug15.021129.4425
Organization: insert anything here

bobsarv@microsoft.com (Bob Sarver) writes:
>Well, nobody asked me, but I'll stick my nose in this:

	Yes and in doing so, are now ibn the position of waving your
ass in the air like the American flag...

>1.  Because many of the the more feminine types would rather be masculine, 
>    but just can't seem to get the hang of it;
>2.  Because to the feminine types, the masculine gay men are painful 
>    reminders of personal shortcomings;
>3.  Because the more feminine gays feel that if they have to go
>    through life being immediately identified as gay and ostracized
>    for it, then goddammit, so should everybody else
>4.  Because the feminine types cannot comprehend how a man could be
>    sincerely gay and sincerely masculine at the same time.  
>    And, since the fem. types can't successfully conceptualize how that
>    could happen, then "obviously" these masc. gay men must be faking it.
>    It never occurs to them that simply because they can't conceptualize
>    it, *doesn't* mean that it can't happen.

	[and blah blah blah]

	Can we say "internally homophobic"...  I knew we could.
"Masculine" and "Feminine" isn't selected, nor in any way are they
"real" concepts...  If men are acting "feminine" it's because it's
within the spectrum of behaviors to do so...  If some womyn act 
"masculine" it's because it's within the spectrum of behaviors to
do so...  To think that there are definable definitive behavors that
are solely masculine and/or feminine is assinine.  To judge someone
on the basis of these misconceptions is ludicrous.
	
BBC
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: dyer@spdcc.com (Steve Dyer)
Subject: Re: Credit Union Memberships for Domestic Partners?
Organization: S.P. Dyer Computer Consulting, Cambridge MA
Date: Wed, 19 Aug 1992 02:24:07 GMT

In article <1992Aug19.005813.7761@agora.uucp> doretta@agora.uucp (Doretta Schrock) writes:
>So it makes
>sense that what they told me to do was write to the BOD.  All I'm looking for
>is things I can say to them in support of the idea that they *should* include
>domestic partners.

I guess "every other CU I know of doesn't make a big deal about this"
doesn't count?  That's all the people who related their positive stories
with CUs here were saying.  Precedent and customary practice counts for
something.

-- 
Steve Dyer
dyer@ursa-major.spdcc.com aka {ima,harvard,rayssd,linus,m2c}!spdcc!dyer
From: drp@dosbears.UUCP (David R. Preston)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: Nude cons (wasRe: OK, I give in!)
Date: 12 Aug 92 19:08:06 GMT
Reply-To: drp@dosbears.uucp
Organization: DosBears

In article <1992Aug9.152400.17093@spdcc.com> rdonahue@spdcc.com (Bob Donahue) writes:
>rogerk@queernet.org (Roger B.A. Klorese) writes:
>>ry@cbnewsl.cb.att.com (ryerson.schwark) writes:
>>>rogerk@queernet.org (Roger B.A. Klorese) writes:
>>>>>Have any other cons had clothing-optional events? 
>
>>>>Personally, I think it's an evil, demeaning and body-ist thing.  
>>>Oh.  I hadn't realized it turned you on so much.
>>It does indeed; that was my point.
>>...daaaahling.
>
>	:-)  So, Roger, where *are* the recognized nude-permitted-legally
>areas in SF and NYC?

If you count up the miles, there is more clothing-optional coastline
in northern California than clothing-required. The easiest beach to
get to that is actually in SF is Baker beach, near the Presidio. It
is accessible by bus, has parking and bathrooms, and is legally
clothing-optional at one end. I suppose it could be called wheel-chair
accessible, I'm not sure how easy is it to maneuver on dry sand.
Somewhat more difficult to get to is Land's End, well known as a
cruise beach. Other nude beaches between Marin and Santa Cruz run the
gamut from Red, White, and Blue family campground, to cruise beaches
such as San Gregorio, with lots of places in between. If you wanted
a hot springs fix, head to wine country and take the waters at
Harbin Hot Springs, a clothing-optional newage retreat, conference
center, campground.

New York, I don't know about.

--
         David R. Preston   drp@dosbears.uucp dosbears@netcom.com
              Information gladly given but safety requires
               the avoidance of unnecessary conversation.
            D. R. Preston 584 Castro St. #614 SF CA 94114 USA
From: anderson@macc.wisc.edu (Jess Anderson)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: Rob Bernardo (Responses to people dying)
Date: 20 Aug 92 11:38:13 GMT
Organization: Madison Academic Computing Center, UW-Madison


In article <1992Aug19.222256.14441@spdcc.com> dyer@spdcc.com
(Steve Dyer) writes:

>In article <1992Aug19.195801.13525@riacs.edu>
>drogers@riacs.edu (David Christopher Rogers) writes:

>>- Realizing I should have got that damn .GIF file of him from
>>  spdcc.com before he had them pulled

>I put them back this week, David.  I suppose that's flouting Rob's
>request to pull them earlier this year, but I thought that these would
>be additional memorials, since they capture him in all his Rob-ery.
>I didn't want to leave motss without his pictures; words and memory
>can only do so much.

>Just look at rob_bernardo.and.oriana.gif, which is a magnificent
>picture.  It was submitted to me--I don't recall who snapped it and
>scanned  it, but it's not only technically wonderful, it's also
>the quintessential Rob, kissing his horse, Oriana.

Chuck Fisher took the picture, I think.  I cropped it to fit
my screen as a background, though I haven't had the nerve to
put it up recently.  It is *such* a Rob-like picture of Rob,
with a sideways glance at the camera that was so typical
when he was feeling puckish.

>Before I left for work today, I rummaged through my pile of photographs
>for those of Rob; I'm going to rescan a few now that I have equipment
>which will do him justice.

Goody.  Please let us know when you've got that stuff ready,
then I'll glom the whole lot.

Sweet jesus (hardly the appropriate deity), I *do* miss him!

-- 
Jess Anderson <> Madison Academic Computing Center <> University of Wisconsin
Internet: anderson@macc.wisc.edu <-best, UUCP:{}!uwvax!macc.wisc.edu!anderson
NeXTmail w/attachments: anderson@yak.macc.wisc.edu  Bitnet: anderson@wiscmacc
Room 3130 <> 1210 West Dayton Street / Madison WI 53706 <> Phone 608/262-5888
Newsgroups: soc.motss