HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: ssmithap@cc.curtin.edu.au
Subject: Searching for 24 Channels
Organization: Curtin University of Technology
Date: Mon, 23 Nov 1992 03:22:04 GMT


HI,

I'm using a friend's account to post the following to you.

The church I attend is looking to purchase a new mixer as an upgrade to the
8-channel model presently used.  We would dearly like to extend  to 24 
channels but we have a limited budget of $5000 Australian at best!  Yamaha
sell a nice 16 channel model in the MC series for around $2500 Australian.
They also sell a 24 channel model in the MR series for over $7000 Australian.
I can't understand why the 24 channel is more than double the price of the 
16 channel - unless the performance specs are significantly better.  There 
seems to be a large price jump from 16 to 24 channels.  A local retailer 
claims Yamaha don't make a 24 channel MC mixer, but I would think someone
would make a moderate 24 channel - similar specs and features to the MC 
series to fill the gap in the market, for around $4500 Australian say.

As a guideline to our requirements we would need:
          - usual pad/gain control.
          - quasi-parametric EQ (ie sweepable mid-band frequency) as on MC.
          - at least 3 independent sends for foldback/recording (hopefully
            pre/post fade selectable)
          - 4 subgroups
          - prefade listen (headphone monitor)
The MC series is perfectly suitable - if only there was a 24 channel MC.

The mixer would be used for live mixing of speech, choir, soloists, piano,
organ, synths, guitars (6 string and bass), drums (accoustic and electric),
flute, clarinet, trombone - not all at once! We have a roster.

In particular, we have been considering Allen & Heath, Tascam and Yamaha.
We're not sure about Allen & Heath but they have a 4 band EQ instead of a
sweepable midband which is a possible drawback.  Tascam sounds OK (a bit 
white-noisy) but is knobs are tiny.  We tend to favour Yamaha.

Thankyou for taking the time to read this.  Any suggestions on a mixer that
might be suitable, 16 or 24 channels, or to point out some which aren't worth 
considering would be greatly valued.  Please post your replies or EMAIL this 
account.

Nathanael Rensen.



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Newsgroups: rec.music.christian
From: stroup@aspen.ops.lmsc.lockheed.com ()
Subject: Re: What do you do when....
Reply-To: stroup@aspen.ops.lmsc.lockheed.com ()
Organization: Lockheed Missiles And Space Co.
Date: Mon, 16 Nov 92 21:09:19 GMT


In article <1e8l8fINNe8a@transfer.stratus.com>,
 markc@eomer.hw.stratus.com (Mark Christensen) writes:

>I am applying them together rather than separately.  Is music, in itself,
>inherently good or bad?  I'm not sure if I can answer that.  I do know that:

>1) If certain music causes me to think unGodly it is wrong for me.
>2) If certain music causes me to feel unGodly it is wrong for me.
>3) If certain music makes me look unGodly to others it is wrong for me.
>4) If certain music has control over me, it is wrong for me.
>5) If certain music causes me to act unGodly, it is wrong.
>6) If I listen to music and it causes other spiritually weaker Christians
    to falter in their walk with God, it is wrong for me.

I can certainly agree to these statements, but I guess I'd have to ask what's 
your definition or "unGodly".  In many instances, this term is defined based on 
religious traditions, not biblical truths.


>detract...perhaps yours is not.  This is an area in every Christian's life
>that the individual must deal with.  I had to (yes, I did listen to all this
>at one time).  I was convicted by the Holy Spirit through God's word on this
>subject.  

You are absolutely right in listening to and obeying the Holy Spirit's guidance
in this area (Romans 14:14) for your life.  But you're also right that this
is an individual matter between the believer and God (since the bible doesn't
specifically address this issue).

					judie
From: vapspwi@prism.gatech.EDU (Jerry B. Ray, Jr.)
Newsgroups: rec.music.christian
Subject: Denied (again)
Date: 22 Nov 92 20:48:22 GMT
Organization: Georgia Institute of Technology

Well, the White Heart concert i was going to go to this weekend in 
Huntsville didn't happen.  This makes the 4th time in the last 4 months
that a Whiteheart concert that i was going to got cancelled.  Count on
me to be in a bad mood for a few days (see previous posts...)

JRjr

-- 
'Let's not pretend to justify, Rather amend where treasures lie.  Straight
through the heart peace can be found.  That's where you start, not all 
around...'  Extreme -- Rest In Peace
#####  vapspwi@prism.gatech.EDU  ########  Jerry B. Ray, Jr.  ################
From: russn@ssec.wisc.edu (Russ Neumeier)
Newsgroups: rec.music.christian
Subject: Re: What do you do when....
Date: 17 Nov 92 18:32:55 GMT
Organization: University of Wisconsin, Space Science and Engineering Center

In article <1eatb8INNaot@transfer.stratus.com>, markc@eomer.hw.stratus.com (Mark Christensen) writes:
|> In article <97861@netnews.upenn.edu> crawford@ben.dev.upenn.edu (Lauren L. Crawford) writes:

|> 
|> >  Christians
|> >throughout history have taken popular musical forms and made them into
|> >hymns of worship -- our hymnals are full of them.    
|> >
|> Please give me a history lesson here and point to some examples.  I
|> really am unaware of this, though I wouldn't doubt it.  This wouldn't
|> make much difference though, since these hymns are not embraced by the
|> world, neither do they sound like the world or appeal to the world.

First, let's take a look at "A Mighty Fortress" by Martin Luther; the tune he
used for this hymn is from a popular drinking song of that time.

Second, take a look at Psalm 75...in the NIV it has a description which says:
"To the tune of 'Do Not Destroy' ".  In Psalm 56, the description says:
"To the tune of 'A Dove on Distant Oaks' "  There are many other examples from
the Book of Psalms that use the tunes of popular songs of the day.

You are right in the respect that these songs are not embraced by the world, but
neither is most of today's Christian music -- yes, there are exceptions...
but in general, you won't hear most contemporary Christian artists on a "secular"
radio station, but I would REJOICE if I were to flip to the Top 40 station here
and find Rich Mullins "Awesome God" coming across the airwaves!
(Not that I'll be flipping to the Top 40 station anytime soon :-)   )


Russ Neumeier
russn@ssec.wisc.edu
SSEC, UW-Madison
Madison, WI -- sixty-two square miles surrounded by reality
Newsgroups: rec.music.christian
From: jenk@microsoft.com (Jen Kilmer)
Subject: Re: What do you do when....
Date: 19 Nov 92 07:22:21 GMT
Organization: Microsoft Corporation

I find this thread rather interesting, since Contemporary Christian
Music (Christian Rock) played an important part in my accepting 
Christ a few months ago.

In article <1e8l8fINNe8a@transfer.stratus.com> markc@eomer.hw.stratus.com (Mark Christensen) writes:
>They aren't 
>pointed to Jesus Christ, the savior.  They are not brought to a position of
>repentance, belief, and desire for salvation.  No, instead they find the
>music and "look" appealing because it is exactly what they had.  
Scene: a coworker's office at microsoft. Sound: he and I talking,
with background music from his radio. I'm there instead of 
working because I got stir-crazy alone in my office - I 
didn't really like being alone. Then he's editing an email
message while I'm reading over a spec. Song on the radio:

 If this were the very last day of my life
 I would not cry
 Cause I've been waiting for it, waiting for it.
 Instead I'm sure I'd jump for joy and reach the sky.
 Cause've I've been dyin' for it, dyin for it.

 [...]

 And I know that there are those that say He lied, 
 He was a false teacher.
 But I know if you looked at Him right in the eye you'd
 find that He holds the key to your life.
 And I know that you've tried everything thing you done
 At least once or twice.
 And I know that _there's_no_joy_left_within_you_.
 So why not try Him
 And let Him take away all your sin.


That song (Last Day Of My Life, off 2nd Chapter of Acts'
In The Volume Of The Book and Encores) got me right where I
was at. I had no joy. Why not try Him?  

Later that day my coworker was playing Sandi Patti's Another
Time...Another Place. I liked the song, started listening to
the words. I wished I believed that.  I wanted that assurance.
Not to mention my coworker's assurance :>

Next day I went out and bought 5 CCM tapes that I'd listened
to back in high school. And I started listening. And I kept
wishing I had that assurance...while I danced around my office
and actually MET my deadline. And started asking my coworker
questions about his relationship with Christ, which was so
different from the one I used to have. And I started praying
again...which was the biggest step of all until when I accepted
Christ.

Christ used what was there - me, my coworker, and CCM. 

>Whether or not rock music evolved from good foundations or not (and we
>might differ here)...the fact that the world has adopted it as it's
>own and uses it for evil, makes it worldly.  

The world uses cars for evil. The world uses housing for evil. The
world uses health for evil. Where do you draw the line?

-jen
From: FELSKE@ERICH.TRIUMF.CA (FELSKE, WAYNE W.)
Newsgroups: rec.music.christian
Subject: Re: Becker
Date: 18 Nov 1992 18:29:01 GMT
Organization: TRI-UNIVERSITY MESON FACILITY
Distribution: world
NNTP-Posting-Host: erich.triumf.ca
X-News-Reader: VMS NEWS 1.24


In <98047@netnews.upenn.edu> crawford@ben.dev.upenn.edu writes:

> Anyone familiar with Margaret Becker?  I saw a CD of hers the other day,
> which was produced and arranged by Charlie Peacock.  I've heard of him but
> not her.  What's she like?
> 

	She is very good (just 1 opinion)
	early stuff really knows how to rock with a Janis Joplin edge when she
	wants. Her latest has more soft stuff. Her lyrycs are good and when
	she sings it comes from the heart. Worth a listen

--------------------------------------------
|                                           |
|    Wayne Felske                           |
--------------------------------------------

Newsgroups: rec.music.christian
From: haddaway@umbc5.umbc.edu (Mr. Todd Haddaway; ADMIN-COMP)
Subject: Re: DC-Talk concert review request.
Organization: Univ. of MD, Baltimore County
Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1992 12:21:12 GMT

In article <19NOV199213554608@zeus.tamu.edu> kyw9538@zeus.tamu.edu (WAI, KANE Y) writes:
>Hello Music Lovers...especially DC-Talk fans....I and a group of three others
>are thinking about having DC-Talk to perform at our school.  We've started
>talking to their agents and everything....now I need some inputs on how their
>concerts were in the past, so please post any responses you have or e-mail
>me at kyw9538@zeus.tamu.edu    Thanx!!
>
>Kane 

Kane,

I have done concert promotion in the Baltimore-Washington area.  IMHO, 
DC-Talk is a sure sell-out.  They draw high school kids, which are your
main concert goers.

Are you and your 3 friends going to put up the money yourselves?  How
much is DC-Talk these days?  Do you have to pay air, lights, sound?

Todd
From: cs40f003@hamlet.ucdavis.edu
Newsgroups: rec.music.christian
Subject: Re: What do you do when your child thinks Metallica is cool?
Date: 16 Nov 92 19:17:09 GMT
Organization: Computing Services, UC Davis

>
> blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah
> [bible verse][bible verse][bible verse][bible verse]
> blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah
> [bible verse][bible verse][bible verse][bible verse]
> blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah
>

God's will for you in this situation is...
 blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah
 [bible verse][bible verse][bible verse][bible verse]
 blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah
 [bible verse][bible verse][bible verse][bible verse]
 blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah

Sheesh, some Christians don't know when to quit, do they.

Later,
Randy
Newsgroups: rec.music.christian
From: hakari@lars.acc-admin.stolaf.edu (The Conformist Contrabass Clarinetist)
Subject: Re: Anyone know these artists?
Organization: St. Olaf College; Northfield, MN
Date: Mon, 16 Nov 1992 20:45:37 GMT




MOST DEFINITELY!!!!  Perry and the Poor Boys were rather popular around here 
(Minnesota).  They did quite a few Lutheran Youth Encounter Congresses.  BTW,
does anyone have their address?  I want to get some of their tapes, 'cuz my
maybe-roommate next year likes that style of music.  Help, anyone??


--Andrea




Newsgroups: rec.music.christian
From: iba@kronos.arc.nasa.gov (Wayne Iba)
Subject: Re: What is art? (was: What do you do when your child thinks Metallica is cool?)
Organization: NASA/ARC Information Sciences Division
Date: Wed, 18 Nov 1992 00:07:56 GMT

crow@coos.dartmouth.edu (Preston F. Crow) writes:

[on the subject of good and bad art]

>  Still,
>the best art is not that which is easily understood, but that which
>maintains interest as the listener struggles to understand. 

This is close.  But it doesn't even have to be a struggle.  It is old,
overused, and trite, but true -- art is in the eye (sense) of the
beholder.  I'll submit that "art" is the _process_ of communication in
which particular emotions and cognitive patterns are elicited.  Now
"good" art depends on the depth and richness of the resulting emotions
and concepts, the freshness of the experience, and the ability of the
experience to unfold and be new.

Some great art can be accessible to and appreciated by the masses, and
other great art requires certain background information to enable
appreciation (elicitation of the appropriate conceptual structures).  

How about music? The Beatles were great and appreciated by lots of
people.  Thelonius Monk was great but required a certain background to
appreciate.

Next to Handel's epic Messiah, my favorite work of musical art is
Phil Keaggy's "March of the Clouds".  It never fails (for me) to be
new and interesting.

--wayne (iba@ptolemy.arc.nasa.gov)
Newsgroups: rec.music.christian
From: JHIATT@130.187.170.178 (JOHN HIATT)
Subject: Re: What do you do when your child thinks Metallica is cool?
Organization: Evans & Sutherland Computer Corp.
Date: Tue, 17 Nov 1992 04:25:14 GMT
X-News-Reader: VMS NEWS 1.11

  I can appreciate this father's concern for his son.  But, since I like
Metallica I can appreciate the son's interest.  My suggestion is that you go
out and buy a Metallica album and take an hour or two and listen to it with
your son.  Analyze it together.  Discuss how it affects you and how it affects
your son.  Write the words down.  Highlight what bothers you... highlight what
you think is really inspiring or deep.  At the end... both of you choose to
keep the tape or destroy it... do it together.

  This would be an effective way to meet your son where he is.  And you would
also discover WHY he likes Metallica.  If you keep the tape and your son
listens to it... you'll know why.  If you destroy the tape, you'll both never
forget that moment.

  I would not like my son to listen to Metallica.  But, I listen to Metallica.
I like them.  This would put me in a unique position.  I'd like to listen to
the tape with him and both of us choose what to do.

John R. Hiatt.
Newsgroups: rec.music.christian
Subject: Re: What do you do when your child thinks Metallica is cool?
From: hjh@goose.dsto.gov.au (Howard Harvey)
Date: 16 Nov 92 15:57:50 CST

>If the readers disagree with my assertions about Christian rock (see
>past postings), can they not at least agree that all music should be
>for the praise, honor, and glory to God?  And IF (notice the BIG IF),
>you agree with this, then shouldn't music with the main intent on
>developing social issues rather than keeping our eyes on the Lord be
>unedifying?  Just a question?  Please, no flames on this one.  I've
>already received enough mail to last a few days.  So much for sub-
>scribing to this newsgroup!

>mc

I missed the original posting by MC on this issue, so may not have quite 
the right thread.  However, I see two issues here.

First, I happen to like most forms of music (heavy rock and its derivatives,
and opera specifically excluded).  I am particularly fond of lighter forms
of classical music.  Equally, I like ballads, soul, jazz, blues, military,
musicals, even CHRISTIAN (hymns, songs, choruses)!  I sure hope I'm not a 
sinner in your eyes because of that list.  To limit yourself to one
particular form or expression of music is, to me, like putting on a set
of blinkers.  Important point: I come from a Salvation Army background,
and am now pentecostal; I am used to being exposed to a reasonably wide
range of music, including that which at one time had secular words.  You
would be surprised to find out that some of the tunes of the 1800s started
life as VERY secular music.  As William Booth, founder of the Salvation Army
said, "Why should the devil have all the good music?"  He used secular tunes
and forms (especially the brass band format - remember that they were a
common form of entertainment, especially in the coal mine areas of England) 
to attract the sinners.

The second point, and this is the crux of the posting: my younger son
happens to like heavy metal.  In order to avoid the obvious, and at the
same time to not be an ogre, I allow him to get (a few) heavy metal CDs
through the Australian Family Record Club (Word Music).  After listening
intently, and with much translation help from my son, I found that the
pure distortion I thought I was listening to actually had real words
that had a real message.  My son could understand them - he must have
listened to them several times to understand them, so I can assume that
they must have at least partially penetrated his thick skull.  If he is
not going to listen to what I like, or to what I would like him to listen
to, then is it not better for him to at least get Christian lyrics?  This
argument is equally applicable to rap music, which he also likes.  I can
at least understand most of those words first time around, although I will
admit that rap is not my cup of tea either.

Howie
From: sbradley@en.ecn.purdue.edu (Scott B Bradley)
Subject: Re: Music is a TOOL (was Re: What to do when your....)
Organization: Purdue University Engineering Computer Network
Date: Mon, 16 Nov 92 16:36:07 GMT

In article <1992Nov13.221321.7204@cs.wisc.edu> russn@ssec.wisc.edu (Russ Neumeier) writes:
>Well, like Dave Harker pointed out in a previous posting, music, among many, MANY 
>other things is a tool.  It can (and is) used for good and used for evil.  It all
>comes down to how a person or group uses music... Pray for Rain most assuredly
>uses this tool for the glory of God.  Many other bands do the same.  If you were
>to strip away lyrics from a "secular" and "Christian" band, yes, they would have
>a lot of similarities, but the biggest difference is the lyrics -- because the
>lyrics say something about what that artist/band believes in. 
> 
>Actually, Eddie DeGarmo wrote a book a few years back entitled "Don't Stop the
>Music" (I think that's what it was called), and in this book he does a very good 
>job of explaining the tool of music.
>
>
>Grace to you and Peace,
>
>Russ Neumeier
>SSEC, UW-Madison
>Madison, WI -- sixty-two square miles surrounded by reality

   Allow me to mourn this sad day of sudden realization.  I just discovered
that I'm not an artist, but a handyman.  And on my birthday too.

  
-- 
-------------------------------------------------------------------
Scott Bradley              
sbradley@en.ecn.purdue.edu
From: ajw@cbnews.cb.att.com (andrew.j.whitman)
Subject: Re: Bob Dylan's "Slow Train Coming"
Organization: AT&T
Date: Mon, 23 Nov 1992 20:13:36 GMT

In article <1992Nov23.185621.29169@sei.cmu.edu> tef@sei.cmu.edu (Tracey Fox) writes:
>
>
>|> This hardly seems like the fruits that would be borne by one who makes
>|> music that "comes from the pit of hell."  If you feel the need to 
>|> judge him, then at least follow a biblical example and judge him by his 
>|> fruits.  Slander is unbecoming of Christians.  Wild, unsubstantiated 
>|> claims about Christians making music from "the pit of hell" sounds a lot 
>|> like slander to me, and I'd respectfully suggest that you cut the crap.
>|> 
>|> Andy Whitman
>|> AT&t Bell Laboratories, Columbus, Ohio
>|> att!cblpn!ajw  or
>|> ajw@cblpn.att.com
>
>
>My statement would not be considered slanderous, just my opinion.  He's a
>public figure and is subject to criticism just like any one else.  As for
>Biblical examples, I should say I don't really have one, but I wonder if Jesus
>received the same reactions from the religious of his day when he told the
>scribes and Pharisees that their father was the devil.

Feeling messianic today, are you?  You accused a Christian of writing music
"from the pit of hell" and of producing music that was theologically
correct but from the "wrong" spirit (gee, wonder what that could mean,
huh?).  Other than questioning someone's salvation and accusing them
of deliberately deceiving God's people - no, you haven't done anything
slanderous.  Can't imagine why anyone would get upset about that.  It's
just you're opinion, right?  

I'm saying that Bob Dylan's life and music provides ample testimony
to his Christian faith.  If you're going to make outrageous, slanderous
accusations, you'd better be prepared to back them up.  You haven't 
done so.  Why do you feel the need to attack a brother in Christ 
who has ministered in powerful ways to many Christians?  I'm honestly
curious to hear your rationale.  

>But you're right, I shall cut the crap (as you say) and let Jesus judge the
>hearts of men.  

It's a little late for that, n'est ce pas?  Either back up what you say
(in which case maybe we could have a rational discussion) or apologize
for slandering a brother in Christ.  But do one or the other.  

Andy Whitman
AT&T Bell Laboratories, Columbus, Ohio
att!cblpn!ajw  or
ajw@cblpn.att.com
Newsgroups: rec.music.christian

In rec.music.christian, snorthc@relay.nswc.navy.mil (Stephen Northcutt) writes:

> I was in a church this morning with hymn books, amazing!...
> ...Can you get hymnbooks with chords?  There is a lady at our
> church who knows music enough to figure out decent chord progressions
> to hymns, but I hate to bother her all the time...

Word Music publishes "Hymns for Worship and Celebration", and  "Songs for 
Praise and Worship", both with extensive backup resources (orchestra parts,
planners' versions, and yes, the *guitarist's* version). Any bookstore with a
current Word catalog can help you out or call J&J Music in Chickasaw, AL 
(sorry, no phone# handy, use Ma Bell).

Bob (can't think of anything cute here today) Miller rhm@hpfirhm.fc.hp.com
Newsgroups: rec.music.christian
From: ralthoff@s.psych.uiuc.edu (Rob Althoff)
Subject: Re: Amy Grant's Old Xmas Album--Question
Organization: Dept. of Psychology, Univ. of Illinois, Urbana
Date: Mon, 23 Nov 1992 22:01:01 GMT

In article <ktrgovac.6.722550571@fireworm.watstar.uwaterloo.ca>
ktrgovac@fireworm.watstar.uwaterloo.ca (Karin Trgovac) writes: 

>Does anyone know if Amy Grant's Old Christmas Album was released on CD??
>I have looked all over and cannot find it.  Is there a mail order or
>something.  Maybe the problem is that I'm in Canada.
>
>Can anyone help??
>Thanks.

Hi Karin,

My wife and I just picked up the old Amy Grant christmas CD at, where
else, Target.  I guess since Amy is the spokesperson for Target they
feel like they should carry all of her merchandise since we also picked
up the Amy Grant's "Old Fashioned Christmas" video that is a release of
her 1986 TV special on videotape.  

So the CD is out there.  I don't know if there is a Target nearby but
that may be the best (and possibly cheapest) place to look for it.

Hope that helped,

Rob
--
Rob Althoff
Neuroscience Program and College of Medicine
University of Illinois at Urbana-Champaign
2424 Beckman Institute MC-251
405 N. Mathews Avenue
Urbana, Illinois 61801
phone:(217)244-4458
email:ralthoff@s.psych.uiuc.edu

Newsgroups: rec.music.christian