HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
From: dnavas@oracle.uucp (David Navas)
Subject: Re: Oh my God! Help my friend not buy an IBM!
Organization: Oracle Corporation, Redwood Shores CA
Date: Wed, 18 Nov 1992 20:16:47 GMT
X-Disclaimer: This message was written by an unauthenticated user
              at Oracle Corporation.  The opinions expressed are those
              of the user and not necessarily those of Oracle.

In article <1992Nov17.184808.6414@gw.wmich.edu> 925wardell@gw.wmich.edu writes:
>	No, he was talking about OS/2, not an Amiga.  With OS/2, the
>background tasks still go at nearly full speed still.  

Either:
	a) Not all of the tasks need the full CPU
	-or-
	b) The background or foreground processes don't run "at full speed"
	   or, even, "nearly full speed"

OS/2 automatically lowers the "priority" on background processes, so those
background processes do, indeed, get less CPU, provided that the foreground
process is sucking any of it away....

While this is all interesting, I get the feeling that both the OS/2
advocates and the AmigaOS advocates haven't a clue as to how their own
system works, nevermind how the "other" system works.

David C. Navas						dnavas@oracle.com
Working for, but not speaking on behalf of, Oracle Corp.
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
From: gcastrat@silver.ucs.indiana.edu (Giancarlo Castrataro)
Subject: Re: Shut the fuck up!!!!
Organization: Indiana University
Date: Sun, 22 Nov 1992 18:55:32 GMT

     This is comp.sys.amiga.advocacy, man!  Why not hide out in comp.sys.ibm.pc
or comp.sys.amiga.misc if ya can't handle it?  Personally, I enjoy listening
to people arguing about computers and I don't need someone telling me that
comp.sys.amiga.advocacy stinks.
     Note: it's one thing to just say "mine's better"; it's another thing to
say "mine can do *X*X* resolution in *fps"; the "mine's better" people go into
From: 925wardell@gw.wmich.edu
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
Subject: Re: Oh my God! Help my friend not buy an IBM!
Date: 17 Nov 92 18:48:08 EST
Organization: Western Michigan University

In article <1992Nov17.125650.1704@msus1.msus.edu>, martin@TIGGER.STCLOUD.MSUS.EDU (Psigon Matrix....do you DOUBT us??) writes:
> In article <1992Nov17.162049.9038@ncsu.edu>, linville@garfield.catt.ncsu.edu (John W. Linville) writes:
>>In article <Bxu34t.6tB@mentor.cc.purdue.edu> kodak@mentor.cc.purdue.edu (Jason Balicki (KodaK)) writes:
>>>In article <1992Nov16.223302.6261@ncsu.edu> linville@garfield.catt.ncsu.edu (John W. Linville) writes:
>>>>Finally, for those who devalue high processor speeds, try getting 30-40 back-
>>>>ground processes running and then tell me how well your Amiga compares to my
>>>>PC running OS/2.
>>>
>>>First, what kind of processes?  Are you talking full fledged apps or just 
>>>screen savers and the like...
>>
>>I'm talking about editors, games, word processors, networking software, drawing
>>programs, etc along with clocks, calculators, etc.  I am running 31 of them
>>right this minute, and the foreground process is essentially just as responsive
>>as with almost nothing else running.
> 
> 
> and all the background tasks are dead in the water.... 
> 

	No, he was talking about OS/2, not an Amiga.  With OS/2, the
background tasks still go at nearly full speed still.  



> 
>>|   John W. Linville                 Amateur radio:  KD4KHC                   |
> 
> 
> Jim
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>    It is not I who am CrAzY, it is I who am MAD!!!!! -Ren (SpaCe MaDDneSs)
> Living w/o a computer 'till the 4000 comes. Sigh... X-ASOCC (CBM Blew that one)
>            Jim Martin   MATRIX -- If it's made, we sell it. Almost.
> A4000 Coming SOON!!, Real soon.                 MARTIN@TIGGER.STCLOUD.MSUS.EDU
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: ggg@kepler.unh.edu (Gregory G Greene)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
Subject: Re: HEIDI'S DECISION. Was: Oh My God, help my friend not buy an IBM
Date: 19 Nov 1992 22:58:26 GMT
Organization: University of New Hampshire  -  Durham, NH
NNTP-Posting-Host: kepler.unh.edu

'>Yes, the 1304 and the NEC are both nice. They also work on computers other
'>than a PC. If this person does get a PC of any ilk, she will lose interest
'>in computing with months.

	Why is that?  I've had one for over a year and I haven't lost any
    interest in computing.

'>I have an MPC system (486/33 based now). It has never worked properly even
'>under Windows, let alone OS/2. Today I received a MacIIvi (this is basically
'>a IIvi but with a 16MHz 030). It has a built in CD-ROM which is Kodak
'>Photo CD compatible and has the speed doubling. It's great. Plug and play.
'>No hassles with meory, CD's paly as they should, no jerkiness in the
'>voices, etc...

	I guess MPC systems must really suck.  My non-MPC 33/486 is great, I
    have had no problems with it regarding OS2, or Windows for that matter.

							Greg Greene
                                                        ggg@kepler.unh.edu

'>Philip McDunnough
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
From: falavi@bach.mth.kcl.ac.uk (Farrukh Alavi)
Subject: Re: Future Entertainment Show, London
Organization: J. Random Misconfigured Site
Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1992 10:07:53 GMT
X-Posted-From: bach.mth.kcl.ac.uk
NNTP-Posting-Host: sol.ctr.columbia.edu

kdarling@garfield.catt.ncsu.edu (Kevin Darling) writes:

>> The CDTV Photo CD demo wasn't running off a Compaq - it was running off  
>>a CDTV. Both the CDTV and the DCTV box required to view Photo CD files  
>>were available for sale. The only thing preventing Commodore from  
>>promoting Photo CD compatibility (within the context of the DCTV box)  
>>was the licensing arrangement (Kodak was willing, Philips wasn't).
> 
>That's a great story, but it seems to ignore a few critical points.
>In order to be promoted as a full "Photo CD" player, there's a lot more
>involved than just reading some picture files off the disc.
>
>The CD-ROM drive would first need to be able to handle multisession  
>discs.

You don't need to handle multisession just to _display_ Photo CD.

>> On the subject of Photo CDs, HAM-8 with a Photo CD datatype on the new
>> Amigas makes an excellent way of seamlessly integrating Photo CD into  
>>the Amiga OS. Hope that Philips drops its objections to Commodore  
>>licensing the technology - after all, they don't mind Apple building  
>>Photo CD support into QuickTime. 
>
>Right, which again is why I doubt Philips is the main holdup.  It's  
>likely far more a matter of Kodak hiring someone internally to do an  
>Amiga port...the same problem which faces an awful lot of other computer  
>types, btw.

You're making quite an assumption here. My statement about Philips'  
unwillingness was based on inside information from someone who was  
involved with the discussions with Kodak.

>> Of course, if they don't, it is not impossible to reverse-engineer the
>> Photo CD file format and release it as a public domain datatype...;-).
>> (Not that I'm necessarily advocating this 'brute force' approach).
>
>There's already source code for that posted on the net ;-) 

Very interesting :-)!! Where can I find it ?
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
From: das9674@usl.edu (Stephenson Daniel A)
Subject: Re: What Amiga Users Want In Future Software Applications!!!!
Organization: University of Southwestern Louisiana
Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1992 21:32:26 GMT


Well, one thing that I think is realy nice about newer word processors for
PCs that I think would be neat in an Amiga WP is multiple levels of Undo.
AmiPro 3.0 for Windows has 4 levels.  DeScribe 4.0 for OS/2 has unlimited
Undo, as does the Enhanced Editor that comes with OS/2.

I can't *tell* you how many times I have used the unlimited Undo when writing
FORTRAN with OS/2's Enhanced Editor.  A side benefit is that there really isn't
a whole lot of need for many backup copies.

-- 
Dan Stephenson                                                 das9674@usl.edu  
"There once was a Lady from Hyde/who ate some bad apples and died/but while we
lamented/the apples fermented/making cider inside her inside!" 
                        -Member of the Court, Texas Renaissance Festival
From: root@rkamiga.UUCP (Rick Kelly)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
Subject: Re:  Oh my God! Help my friend not buy an IBM!
Distribution: world
Date: 18 Nov 92 14:47:33 EST
Organization: Rick's Amiga

In article <1992Nov17.091008.8775@eua.ericsson.se> etxpihl@eua.ericsson.se (Tomas Pihl) writes:
>In <1992Nov16.223302.6261@ncsu.edu> linville@garfield.catt.ncsu.edu (John W. Linville) writes:
>
>zap
>
>>pay for all that sound and graphics muscle is if you really need it.  If you
>>do need it, the Amiga is a decent deal on the low end, but for high-end work,
>>PC peripherals are usually cheaper and often they are better supported and
>>more 'state-of-the-art.'  How long did the Amiga wait for AGA?
>
>How long did the PC wait for the mouse? 10-15 years?

A slight correction.  The PC/AT had mice in 1985.  At that time, Intel boxes
were being used for CAD work.  The company that I worked for at that time
had a couple of them in their drafting department.  They had mice, special
high-res video cards, and 19" monitors.  We used to run flight simulator on
them after hours.

The original PC came out in 1981, so they have only been out for 11 years.

You could actually put a mouse on a PC/XT, but it was way too slow for CAD
applications.

--
Rick Kelly		Rick's Amiga		Framingham, Mass.

		think!unixland!rmkhome!rkamiga!root
From: das9674@usl.edu (Stephenson Daniel A)
Subject: Re: HEIDI'S DECISION. Was: Oh My God, help my friend not buy an IBM
Organization: University of Southwestern Louisiana
Date: Wed, 18 Nov 1992 18:15:31 GMT

In article <1992Nov18.101633.4863@ghost.dsi.unimi.it> lodi@ghost.dsi.unimi.it (fabrizio lodi) writes:
>
>P.S. I and some friends of mine on a '030 accellerated Amiga
>     have launched A-Max, and then Soft-Pc for Mac;result:

SLOOOOOOOOOOOOOW!
Tell me it isn't slow.

>       A 16Mhz 386!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Harumph!

>| Fabrizio Lodi.....E-Mail : lodi@ghost.sm.dsi.unimi.it           \\ //        |
-- 
Dan Stephenson                                                 das9674@usl.edu  
"There once was a Lady from Hyde/who ate some bad apples and died/but while we
lamented/the apples fermented/making cider inside her inside!" 
                        -Member of the Court, Texas Renaissance Festival
From: root@rkamiga.UUCP (Rick Kelly)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
Subject: Re:  Top 10 reasons why ...
Distribution: world
Date: 21 Nov 92 16:46:32 EST
Organization: Rick's Amiga

In article <1992Nov18.124438@cs.bham.ac.uk> imr@cs.bham.ac.uk (Ian M Rae) writes:
>>>
>>>	... the Falcon beats the 1200.  No, really, these important features
>>>of the Falcon always seem to get 'brushed off' by Amigoids when comparing
>>>the two machines.  Imagine how much it would cost to add most of these
>>>features to the 1200 (and then prey that 3rd party software vendors support
>>>your add-ons).  In fact, most of these can't even be found on the 4000.
>
>[ Stuff deleted ]
>
>>>	8. CD Codec
>>>	7. DSP
>
>>These will both be included in any 16 bit sound expansion.  8 bit sound is
>>fine for the majority of users, so why make them pay for it?  If YOU want 16
>>bit sound, YOU pay for it, not me.  Besides, the 56001 in the Falcon is
>>cheesy.
>
>"The 56001 is cheesy", WTF is that supposed to mean...
>
>	Software modems/faxes
>	Real time audio effects/processing at > CD quality
>	etc... ad nauseum ( if you own an Amiga )
>
>Also falcon can do _WITHOUT_ using the DSP
>
>	16 bit stereo sampling with Direct to Disk recording
>		(if you use DSP aswell the sample can be compresses easily by a
>		factor of 4:1 in REAL TIME thus removing the puny argument that
>		16 bit sound is useless in a 1 Meg machine)
>
>	8 channel 16 bit playback
>
>So get a life and actually admit just once that an atari machine has better specs
>as standard than the comparable Amiga one... ( i for one admit the AGA gfx are
>better for some stuff than the Falcons... )
>
>>880K flopies are included because, from what i've heard, there isn't a
>>slimline HD drive (halfspeed) that will fit in the 1200.  Besides, it's a lot
>>more expensive.
>
>Oh dear, for all those years Amigas had superior 880K floppies, now you have
>inferior 880K floppies just face it !
>
>It seems to me all the things Amiga boasted amout for so long have been
>superceded in a BIG way, and all of a sudden it doesnt matter how good the sound
>is, how big yer floppy is ( no comment !)...

The Amiga 1200/4000 are available to the public.

The Atari Falcon is not available to the public.

I live in an area where they used to sell Atari computers all over the place.

I don't expect to ever see an Atari Falcon for sale around here.

Case closed.

--
Rick Kelly		Rick's Amiga		Framingham, Mass.

		think!unixland!rmkhome!rkamiga!root

Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
From: das9674@usl.edu (Stephenson Daniel A)
Subject: OS/2 Raytracer doesn't kill my system, either!
Organization: University of Southwestern Louisiana
Date: Sat, 21 Nov 1992 16:07:29 GMT

From a tip fromJohn Linville, I got that OS/2 raytracer.  Man, I didn't think
they would take so long!

But that isn't as bad as it sound, since it sure doesn't keep me from doing other
things.  The raytracer degrades refresh time a lot, though.  Things feel 'slower'
now, although I'd be surprised otherwise. (Hmm, looking at the Statistics
windows for the Raytracer, it seems to take about 2 minutes per 320pixel line.
Does that sound right?)

In any case, I knew you guys would like my sharing that with you.
-- 
Dan Stephenson                                                 das9674@usl.edu  
"There once was a Lady from Hyde/who ate some bad apples and died/but while we
lamented/the apples fermented/making cider inside her inside!" 
                        -Member of the Court, Texas Renaissance Festival
From: jbickers@templar.actrix.gen.nz (John Bickers)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
Subject: Re: What's the story with Commodore marketing?
Date: 17 Nov 92 20:21:14 PST
Organization: TAP

Quoted from <92320.192105CMS129@psuvm.psu.edu> by Chris "Slothman" Stoy <CMS129@psuvm.psu.edu>:

> Why does Commodore ignore computer stores like E.B.?  Does Commodore even have

    Must be because of the "boutique" in the name.

> Chris "Slothman" Stoy |  DISCLAIMER: The views expressed within are not
--
*** John Bickers, TAP.                   jbickers@templar.actrix.gen.nz ***
***    "Radioactivity - It's in the air, for you and me" - Kraftwerk    ***
From: jbickers@templar.actrix.gen.nz (John Bickers)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
Subject: Re: Oh my God! Help my friend not buy an IBM!
Date: 19 Nov 92 16:22:41 PST
Organization: TAP

Quoted from <1992Nov18.033729.11121@ncsu.edu> by linville@garfield.catt.ncsu.edu (John W. Linville):

> were playing themselves, the clocks were going, and the music players were
> playing, I'd say that not all of them were dead in the water.

    Music player_s_? Were they using different output devices, or is
    this example full of shit?

> John W. Linville
--
*** John Bickers, TAP.                   jbickers@templar.actrix.gen.nz ***
***    "Radioactivity - It's in the air, for you and me" - Kraftwerk    ***
From: ggg@kepler.unh.edu (Gregory G Greene)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
Subject: Re: Amiga or Messy-DOS
Date: 19 Nov 1992 23:07:27 GMT
Organization: University of New Hampshire  -  Durham, NH
NNTP-Posting-Host: kepler.unh.edu

'>>	No one is forcing you to get it.  Take a look at alternatives like
'>>   OS2 2.0, desqview, UNIX.  
'>
'>Ok... OS2 and UNIX.. but don't mention desqview.. Eeewwww.. It is
'>really terrible... (IMO of course! :-)  )
'>
'>Jeff

	I don't know about regular desqview, but I saw someone using
    Desqview/X on a PC the other day, and it looked really nice.  

							Greg Greene
                                                        ggg@kepler.unh.edu

Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
From: benw@cbnewsm.cb.att.com (bennett.weber)
Subject: Re: PIRACY
Organization: AT&T
Date: Sat, 21 Nov 1992 23:44:40 GMT

In article <Don_Varriel.00m1@amusers.UUCP> Don_Varriel@amusers.UUCP (Don Varriel) writes:
>Turning people in for PIRACY is about the worst LAMEST thing too do. Theres
>absolutely nothing wrong with PIRATING so long as you have no FEELINGS!

... (Incoherent drivel deleted)

>BEHIND the scene PIRATES in the world.  You probably have copies of
>programs but are too hypocritical to admit it and if you did you would be
>just that. SICKO
>
>Don Varriel!
>

This is the best anti-pirate post to date.

Thank you for sharing.

						Ben Weber


-----------------------------
Not speaking for AT&T
-----------------------------
From: al158305@academ01.mty.itesm.mx (Gustavo Cordova Avila)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
Subject: Re: Word Perfect 5.1 for the new Amigas
Date: 17 Nov 92 06:20:35 GMT

david@ariane.cam.org (David Lebel) writes:

>   And you think only Amiga have TeX? Almost every plateform known in this
>little universe already have a TeX ported to their respective OS.

   Yes, but not all platforms have the finest implementation of TeX
like the Amiga does. In case you've forgotten, AmigaTeX is one of, if
not THE, finest implementation of TeX written.

-Gus
--
Gustavo Cordova Avila		| Majoring in Computer Engineering
al158305@academ01.mty.itesm.mx	| "...I came from the Desert!!" (Sonora)
al158305@[131.178.4.10]		| RangerElf @ IRC (usually in #amiga)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
From: root@trl.oz.au (System PRIVILEGED Account)
Subject: Re: PIRACY
Organization: Telecom Research Labs, Melbourne, Australia
Date: Tue, 24 Nov 1992 05:52:33 GMT

ralph@bugend.edvina.se (Staffan Vilcans) writes:

>But is is very different from other forms of theft!
> [ Car borrowing analogy .... ]

>I guess something more like it would be if someone made false money 
>which clearly stated that they were false and then gave them away for 
>free.

Let's replace ``false'' with ``broken'' and ``money'' with
``software'':

  I guess something more like it would be if someone made broken
  software which clearly stated that they were broken and then gave
  them away for free.

Who'd want broken ``free'' software?  The point is that software can be
copied verbatim, so every copy is a perfectly working copy.

>Piracy is in most cases theft where nothing is stolen.

There just no such thing as a free lunch.

The economy is a closed system, so illegal copying and use of software
DOES cost the software industry money in lost sales.  Lost sales means
less money for new software.  Less money for development means less
software.

The PC market has enough customers to support further software
development.  The Amiga market does not have such a large number of
customers, so piracy has a much larger effect on Amiga software
development.  Regardless of whether you think piracy is theft or not,
software companies lose money from piracy.

Regards,

--
Soh Kam Hung, Network Management Research,     | h.soh@trl.oz.au  
TRL, POB 249 Clayton, Victoria 3168, Australia | +61 3 253 6638
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
From: matt@gbrmpa.gov.au (Matt Crowd)
Subject: Scoopex Programmers World Pirate BBS
Organization: Great Barrier Reef Marine Park Authority
Date: Mon, 23 Nov 1992 07:02:26 GMT


Pirate BBS numbers are so easy to get hold of, I can't see why they're
not shut down.

Take Scoopex's "Programmers World BBS" and "Technical Board BBS" which
boast :-

	Amiga 2000 with 50Mhz 030
	750MB online and a DAT with over 10 GIG in storage
	57.6k dedicated data link
	Super Fast 16.8k modems

and quotes like "Hell, even our 14.4k users average 1650->1800cps".

How can they still be operating???

-- 
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Matt Crowd - Systems Support - Great Barrier Reef Marine Park Authority - AUS
Voice +61 77 818825, Fax +61 77 726093, email matt@gbrmpa.gov.au
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: jsurace@cco.caltech.edu (Jason A. Surace)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
Subject: Re: PIRACY
Date: 18 Nov 1992 00:00:10 GMT
Organization: California Institute of Technology, Pasadena
NNTP-Posting-Host: punisher.caltech.edu
Keywords: semprini, spam, ni, naughty bits

skip@tacky.cs.olemiss.edu (Skip Sauls) writes:


>Okay, let's apply that same logic to other issues.  The car thief never bought
>the car, nor would they have bought it, therefore there is no net gain and
>no net loss.  The bank robber never earned the money, nor would they have tried
>to earn it, therefore no net gain and no net loss.  The rapist never asked the
>victim if they wanted to be raped, and the victim might never know what they 
>might be missing if he did, therefore no net gain and no net loss.  The mass
>murderer never cared if the victims wanted to live, and they didn't know what
>might happen should they do so, therefore no net gain and no net loss.

>Do you see how positively silly your argument sounds now?

>The fact is that software piracy is no different from other forms of theft
>and it is the opinion of moral and decent people that it is wrong.

>Skip Sauls, Amiga Advocate and Pirate Basher
>$skip@tacky.cs.olemiss.edu


Well, I am against software piracy, but your rebuttal doesn't stand up.
In each of your cited counter-examples there is a physical object which is
transferred (except for the rape, but then there is the emotional trauma).
So there is a new loss (for the victim) and gain (for the theif). In software
piracy, a new copy of the goods being stolen is created. The makers have not
really lost a tangible object, only a potential sale. Your argument would
be correct if there was a limited quantity of software in the world, without
the possibility of making more.


                                              - Jason Surace
                                            jason@ipac.caltech.edu


Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy