HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: celeste%express@freedom.msfc.nasa.gov (Celeste)
Subject: Re: WHY?
Followup-To: alt.transgendered
Organization: AEGIS
Date: Tue, 15 Dec 1992 16:51:39 GMT

In article <1992Dec12.201502.940@jupiter.sun.csd.unb.ca>, wdickeson@mta.ca
wrote:
> 
>  I HATE TO HAVE TO ASK YOU THIS BUT WHY IN GOD'S NAME WOULD
> ANYONE CHOOSE TO BE A CROSS-DRESSER?  NOT ONLY IS IT IMMORAL,
> UN-NATURAL,AND SINFULL, IT IS JUST PLAIN PERVERTED!!!!!!!!
> LET'S FACE THE FACTS - YOU ARE WHAT GOD CREATED YOU TO BE-
> EITHER A MAN OR A WOMAN! WHAT KIND OF BLASPHEMOUS SINNERS ARE
> YOU EXPECTING TO INTERFERE WITH GOD'S POWER. YOU SURE AS HELL CAN'T
> BE BOTH GENDERS THAT'S FOR SURE.
>    STOP FOOLING YOURSELVES AND COME BACK TO THE REAL WORLD.
> ATTEMPTING TO BE SOMETHING YOU'RE NOT (WHICH IS WHAT YOU'RE DOING)
> IMPLIES DIRECTLY THAT YOU ARE SOMEHOW DISAPPOINTED WITH WHAT
> GOD CREATED YOU TO BE.
>    WE ARE ALL BEAUTIFUL PEOPLE IN OUR OWN RIGHT AND THE SOONER 
> YOU GAIN THE SELF-CONFIDENCE TO REALIZE THAT THE REAL YOU IS GOOD 
> ENOUGH FOR US ALL, THE BETTER OFF YOU'LL BE.
>    IN SHORT, TAKE THE DRESSES OFF YOU GAY IMMORAL FREAKS!!!
>                                     
Dear Gentle person (Since I don't know or care what is your gender or sex)

1) I did not chose to be a cross dresser. God (or Goddess) made me 
   this way.
2) God makes people very diverse. Some of us has XXY chromosone. A friend
   of mine had breast grow on him during puberty and has a realtive
   that was found to be "born" a women yet has XY chromosones. She
   had to have her "testes" removed from her abodmine because they
   will be come cancers in later life. God made all of us! 
3) No person is all male or all female. A males has typically 6 times
   the testoerone than a woman's. Yet both male and female bodies
   make both testoesteron. Infact testoesteron creats the sex drive
   in both men and women.
   God decided to make us males with female attitudes and characteristecs
   or female with male attitudes and characteristecs. Why? I belive
   so we helpe others with understand the differences and simulaties
   between men and women.
4) I am following God's plan. He made me this way. I am going to be
   the best and loving transsexual I can be.
5) You and I are both belends of masuline and feminine. The perportions
   are different between you and me.
6) When I denied my nature I was living in a fanticy. You seem to think
   God does things only one way. God has a much more acceptance of
   his creations than you do.
7) I am not "gay". I was born male and I like women. As I become a 
   "woman" you might consider me a lesbian.
8) A Freak? Jesus was a "freak". John the Baptist was a "freak".
   Moses was a "freak." I guess I run in good company.

Love and hugs,

Celeste
Newsgroups: alt.transgendered
From: celeste%express@freedom.msfc.nasa.gov (Celeste)
Subject: Re: TS show on TV
Followup-To: alt.transgendered
Organization: AEGIS
Date: Tue, 15 Dec 1992 16:57:40 GMT

In article <1992Dec12.201554.26770@penet.fi>, an299@anon.penet.fi (Judy)
wrote:
> 
> did anyone catch Picket Fences this week?  This was one of the
> few fictional portrayals of a TS that I have seen that touches
> on the real issues.  Although a GG played the part, I was 
> very impressed with the story and how the small town dealt
> with the breaking story that she had once been a man.
> 
> Judy (|)

I got it on tape. I have watched it some 4 or 5 times. 

My only regret is that they seemed to confused "sexual preference" with
"gender" idenity. The history she had is typical of a former TS like her.

I noticed that my TV Guide did not say anything about it being
a TS eposoide!

Love and hugs,

Celeste
Newsgroups: alt.transgendered
From: an1167@anon.penet.fi (Rita)
Subject: This newsgroup works!
X-Anonymously-To: alt.transgendered
Organization: Anonymous contact service
Date: Wed, 16 Dec 1992 16:35:40 GMT

Hi folks,

Just thought I'd let you know the power of this newsgroup.  I finally had the
courage last night to tell my wife about my CDing desires, and it was *entirely*
because of the courage and caring that I've seen on this newsgroup.

She was very understanding about it - deep down I knew she would be.  I'm not
sure yet what I'll do with this new found freedom, but it's nice to have it.

Thank you so much.

Relieved and confused at the same time,

Rita
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Newsgroups: alt.transgendered
From: scg@mentor.cc.purdue.edu (Kelly Martin)
Subject: Re: a question
Reply-To: scg@mentor.cc.purdue.edu
Organization: Gender Anarchists United
Date: Wed, 16 Dec 1992 07:36:48 GMT

kogutt@rintintin.Colorado.EDU (REMY) writes:

>Uh, hi.  I have a question.  What is the difference (if there is one)
>between a "queen" and a male TV that is gay (I mean that is not a
>TS)?  Is it a matter of definition, or maybe labels?

A "drag queen" generally doesn't try to pass (they tend to
exaggerate).  This is not at all true of all MTF TVs, gay or not.

Kelly
--
If you tell a [gay] child he or she is worthless, and that child commits
suicide--is that not like murder?
	-- Gene Ward Smith (gsmith@concour.cs.concordia.ca)
Newsgroups: alt.transgendered
From: scg@mentor.cc.purdue.edu (Kelly Martin)
Subject: Re: Me? Clueless? Naaah :)
Reply-To: scg@mentor.cc.purdue.edu
Organization: Gender Anarchists United
Date: Thu, 17 Dec 1992 17:43:12 GMT

devin@frodo.Colorado.EDU (Sonja Orlavski) writes:

>It also means that I tend to understand both males and females better
>than either males or females.  That understanding is often helpful.

i've had a lot of people comment that i seem to be more aware of
'female' issues than is normal for a man.  i usually just brush it off
by claiming to be a feminist (which is true, but it's not the reason).
this was especially noticable in the philosophy class i just finished
last semester.

kinda reminds me of one of my closest friends (male, marginally TG,
almost lovers) who ended up taking a leadership role at a 'take back
the night' march... and was reasonably well accepted even by the
misandrist organizers of the march.

kelly
--
Most system flaws can be attributed to unwarrantedly anthropomorphizing the
user.
	-- T.C.Bennett@syse.salford.ac.uk
Newsgroups: alt.transgendered
From: wendy@sundown.mil.wi.us (Wendy)
Date: 16 Dec 92 07:21:21 GMT
Subject: Re: Against My Will
Newsgroups: alt.transgendered
Organization: Wendy's world
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1 PL6]

Rita (an1167@anon.penet.fi) wrote:
: Stephanie,
: 
: Thanks so much for sharing that posting - it very clearly showed how many of
: us feel and how strong the desires can be.  That took a lot of courage.
: 
: Did you know that Ernest Hemingway was also made to dress like a girl at an
: early age, by his mother and sisters?  Some say that's one reason he went so
: all out to be macho as a grown man.  Who can say...
: 
: Best of luck to you.
: 
: **hugs**
: 
: Rita

I don't know about that. From the day I was born to about age 3 my mother
dressed me as a girl and presented me to the world that way. I'm a pre-op
TS, so I don't know about this macho thing..:-)

Wendy
Newsgroups: alt.transgendered
From: an299@anon.penet.fi (Judy)
Subject: Puberty was not kind
X-Anonymously-To: alt.transgendered
Organization: Anonymous contact service
Date: Sat, 12 Dec 1992 19:50:39 GMT

>am quite repressed. Second, puberty was not kind to my feminity -
>I have quite a beard and tons of body hair. Third, since the age of 15
>I have been 6 feet tall and muscular (I currently weigh 180!)
>Fourth, heredity has not been so kind either - my hair is thinning
>as I sit here typing. Is their still hope? I'd like to hear from


Once, in a letter threatening me, my mother wrote that I would make
an ugly woman.  This was prior to my transition and just after
I broke the story to her.  I am 5'11" weighed 185 and had a 
beard to make Fred Flinstsone blush.

Now... 5 years after GRS, I don't weigh less.  But I have absolutely
no problems with my social life.  I never have to deal with the issues
of passing and many men find me attractive (especially my husband).
My weight is mostly in my frame so I am not fat by any means.

It is comforting to know that you can still go ahead knowing that
you can have a life after the transition.  It is a thought that 
no one could share with me in my isolation at the time.

Judy (|)

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Newsgroups: alt.transgendered
From: an1987@anon.penet.fi (Stephanie)
Subject: Re: This newsgroup works!
X-Anonymously-To: alt.transgendered
Organization: Anonymous contact service
Date: Fri, 18 Dec 1992 14:12:29 GMT

Yes, this newsgroup works!  There is so much support from many caring 
individuals.  And the anon.penet.fi server also works.

Thanks for being there, everyone!!!!  :'-)

*Big Hugs* and Happy Holidays to All!

Stephanie A. Brooks

an1987@anon.penet.fi (Stephanie)

"Of course, the last thing my parents wanted was a son who wears a 
cocktail dress that glitters, but they've come around to it." - Divine
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Newsgroups: alt.transgendered
From: mbg@world.std.com (Megan B Gentry)
Subject: Re: Breasts and Mother Nature
Organization: The World Public Access UNIX, Brookline, MA
Date: Sat, 12 Dec 1992 08:59:38 GMT


Hormones generally take the amount of time that they would have if
you had started developing them naturally at puberty.  ALso, the
final results depend mostly on genetic pre-disposition.  More hormones
will NOT increase breast size past your genetically pre-programmed
point.

Look at your mother and other women in your family and you can
sort of get an idea of your size from them.

                                        Megan

Newsgroups: alt.transgendered
From: an2967@anon.penet.fi (Tierney Dhewitrei)
Subject: Christmas jingle
X-Anonymously-To: alt.transgendered
Organization: Anonymous contact service
Date: Thu, 17 Dec 1992 20:37:00 GMT

Combining a test with a little song for all of you wonderful people I
have found out there.  You know the tune, the words are new.


        On the twelfth day of Christmas, my true love gave to me ...

                Twelve pair of hose
                Eleven padded bras
                Ten pairs of panties
                Nine mini skirts
                Eight sheer blouses
                Seven pairs of heels
                Six body shapers
                Five flattering dresses
                Four baby doll nighties
                Three lace teddies
                Two linen suits 
                
                and one negligee.

Enjoy and *Hugs*
Tierney

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Newsgroups: alt.transgendered
From: kogutt@rintintin.Colorado.EDU (REMY)
Subject: a question
Organization: University of Colorado, Boulder
Date: Tue, 15 Dec 1992 07:10:36 GMT

Uh, hi.  I have a question.  What is the difference (if there is one)
between a "queen" and a male TV that is gay (I mean that is not a TS)?
Is it a matter of definition, or maybe labels?


----REMY

Oh, and a note to the bigots out there:  I'm amazed that you have the time
and money to spend checking out the news.groups to find people to spew your
venom at.  I barely have time to follow the groups with people I like.  Get
some lives, huh?
From: scg@mentor.cc.purdue.edu (Kelly Martin)
Newsgroups: alt.transgendered
Subject: Re: Hating one's body, was Re: Me? Clueless? Naaah :)
Date: 21 Dec 92 04:08:42 GMT
	<1gtt96INNbr9@im4u.cs.utexas.edu>
Reply-To: scg@mentor.cc.purdue.edu
Organization: Gender Anarchists United

russw@cs.utexas.edu (Russ Williams) writes:

>So I'm curious: would most people feel horrible living in the body of
>one given sex, or would you be happy in either sex (assuming you
>didn't get hassled by obnoxious society...).

it's been my experience that few males would care to become (or be)
female (most wince noticably at the concept of any male losing his
equipment).  i haven't discussed the issue with too many genetic
females (and the one i have doesn't count as she's more masculine than
i am).

kelly
--
You're damn right we need a rational code of morality and ethics.  But not
much progress can be made in that direction while we've still got a majority
ranting about gods, devils, souls, and absolute morality, and using an ancient
book written by ignorant nomads as a guide.  -- Doug Graham (dgraham@bnr.ca)
Newsgroups: alt.transgendered
From: an860@anon.penet.fi
Subject: CD fantasies
X-Anonymously-To: alt.transgendered
Organization: Anonymous contact service
Date: Sat, 19 Dec 1992 23:57:44 GMT

I loved "MY STORY."  While that one was true, it reminds me of the
kind of fantasies found in the letters column of magazines
such as Penthouse, Forum, and Variations. I went through a phase
where I'd expertly browse these magazines for CD fantasies, and
buy an issue only if there was a really good story.  I wrote a few
myself and sent them in anonyously: one was published.

My favorite stories contained plot twists that forced a male to 
dress up. Female domination stories in general left me cold, unless
the male was forced to CD. My bias reflected my wish to do it without
admitting that I liked it.

I won't post any of these stories here, for fear of the censors
and the self-censors.  Let me summarize my all-time favorite though:
a woman learning hypnosis hypnotizes her husband to stop smoking,
plants the post-hypnotic suggestion that he wants to CD.  She then
dresses him for Halloween, keeps increasing suggestion strength and
dessing frequency, finally takes him out dressed to a photo session in
a trance, wakes him in fancy restaurant, blackmails him to CD fulltime
or she'll scream. ooo. Hypnosis, blackmail, forced CD, detailed
description of outfits.

These fantasies were important to me; they showed me I wasn't alone.
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Newsgroups: alt.transgendered
From: wdickeson@mta.ca
Subject: WHY?
Reply-To: wdickeson@mta.ca
Organization: Mount Allison U, Sackville, N.B. Canada 
Date: Sat, 12 Dec 1992 20:15:02 GMT

 I HATE TO HAVE TO ASK YOU THIS BUT WHY IN GOD'S NAME WOULD
ANYONE CHOOSE TO BE A CROSS-DRESSER?  NOT ONLY IS IT IMMORAL,
UN-NATURAL,AND SINFULL, IT IS JUST PLAIN PERVERTED!!!!!!!!
LET'S FACE THE FACTS - YOU ARE WHAT GOD CREATED YOU TO BE-
EITHER A MAN OR A WOMAN! WHAT KIND OF BLASPHEMOUS SINNERS ARE
YOU EXPECTING TO INTERFERE WITH GOD'S POWER. YOU SURE AS HELL CAN'T
BE BOTH GENDERS THAT'S FOR SURE.
   STOP FOOLING YOURSELVES AND COME BACK TO THE REAL WORLD.
ATTEMPTING TO BE SOMETHING YOU'RE NOT (WHICH IS WHAT YOU'RE DOING)
IMPLIES DIRECTLY THAT YOU ARE SOMEHOW DISAPPOINTED WITH WHAT
GOD CREATED YOU TO BE.
   WE ARE ALL BEAUTIFUL PEOPLE IN OUR OWN RIGHT AND THE SOONER 
YOU GAIN THE SELF-CONFIDENCE TO REALIZE THAT THE REAL YOU IS GOOD 
ENOUGH FOR US ALL, THE BETTER OFF YOU'LL BE.
   IN SHORT, TAKE THE DRESSES OFF YOU GAY IMMORAL FREAKS!!!
From: w2lee@argo.acs.oakland.edu (Lorraine Lee)
Newsgroups: alt.transgendered
Subject: Read this a second time!
Date: 12 Dec 92 02:20:07 GMT
Reply-To: w2lee@argo.acs.oakland.edu
Organization: Oakland University, Rochester, MI

I realize this is a total waste of bandwidth, but sometimes I read something
that is suitable for framing.


In article <celeste-101292152030@128.158.16.248|, celeste%express@freedom.msfc.nasa.gov (Celeste) writes:

       +----------------------------------------------------------------+
       | I experince both sadness and joy. I would not wish what I      |
       | am on my worst enemy. I would not trade what I am for anything |
       | in the world! Knowing that I am a transsexual makes my past    |
       | "make sence."                                                  |
       +----------------------------------------------------------------+
From: scg@mentor.cc.purdue.edu (Kelly Martin)
Newsgroups: alt.transgendered
Subject: Re: a question
Date: 21 Dec 92 04:21:46 GMT
	<SCG.92Dec16023648@mentor.cc.purdue.edu>
	<1gttu6INN30o@mirror.digex.com>
Reply-To: scg@mentor.cc.purdue.edu
Organization: Gender Anarchists United

glenn@access.digex.com (D. Glenn Arthur Jr.) writes:

>Out of curiosity, does that make me, a het M->F TV who goes out in
>public dressed but doesn't try to pass, a drag queen, or would that
>label only apply if I were gay?  I've always thought the phrase
>implied homosexuallity, but I've never been completely certain.

>(Not like I really _need_ one more label -- "TV" seems to fit me well
>enough much of the time (though it's not really close to descriptive
>until you get to "Born again Christian, transvestite, guitarist,
>computer programmer, science fiction fan, ..." -- well I'm sure y'all
>get the idea.)

the only appropriate label i've been able to find to fit you is 'D.
Glenn' (preferably pronounced as one word, like your IRC nick). :)

anything else just doesn't do you justice. :)

kelly
--
You're damn right we need a rational code of morality and ethics.  But not
much progress can be made in that direction while we've still got a majority
ranting about gods, devils, souls, and absolute morality, and using an ancient
book written by ignorant nomads as a guide.  -- Doug Graham (dgraham@bnr.ca)
Newsgroups: alt.transgendered
From: ag055@yfn.ysu.edu (Ward Chanley)
Subject: Re: WHY?
Organization: Youngstown State University/Youngstown Free-Net
Date: Thu, 17 Dec 1992 00:31:07 GMT


By lumping transgender behavior in 
with necrophillia and pederasty, you're
using the standard Fundie stance
against homosexuality.  Don't confuse 
consensual behavior which harms no one
with non-consensual forced sex.

-- 
I thank the Goddess for my life,
I thank the Goddess for my loves,
I thank the Goddess for continued blessings.
     -- Z Budapest
Newsgroups: alt.transgendered
From: ken@shell.portal.com (Ken R Drottar)
Subject: Re: Hormones and breast size
Organization: Portal Communications Company -- 408/973-9111 (voice) 408/973-8091 (data)
Date: Wed, 16 Dec 1992 08:55:41 GMT

In article <celeste-151292110205@128.158.16.248> celeste%express@freedom.msfc.nasa.gov (Celeste) writes:
>In article <1gglhkINN8eg@gap.caltech.edu>, dank@cco.caltech.edu (Daniel R.
>Kegel) wrote:
>> 
>> I'm wondering how practical that is (the breastfeeding part!).
>> - Dan
>
>I was told of a pre op TS that with the help of her encronlgist
>went off hormones to enpregnate her wife. Was successful! Got back
>on hormones and was able to breast feed her child!
>
>Celeste

This is fantasy land stuff, Celeste. Dangerous fantasy land. The fact
is no one is really sure what effect unnatural levels of hormones have
on newborns. There are hints. DES is a form of estrogen that was given
to expectant mothers who appeared to be at risk of miscarriage. Twenty
years later, the female children of these mothers were found to have
cervical cancer. Hormones are known to be excreted by the breast. Birth
control pills carry a warning against their use while breast feeding.

When a parent puts his/her needs and desires above potential health
hazards to their child, that parent is being neglectful and abusive.
I also want to share with you that the implications of this discussion,
i.e. that men can only be caring and nurturing to children when they
have breasts, to be both silly and prejudicial.

			-ken

Newsgroups: alt.transgendered
Subject: Re: information wanted 
Distribution: world
Organization: Matrix (World Domination) Inc.
X-Mailer: Simple NEWS 1.90 (ka9q DIS 1.19)
Date: Sun, 13 Dec 1992 19:52:07 +0000

In article <1992Dec13.132618.15020@dircon.co.uk> uad1149@dircon.co.uk writes:
> 
>I believe there's a support group in the UK.  If anyone has 
>the phone
>number, I should be grateful.
>

There are several, but the only one I have to hand is:

TV/TS Helpline 071 729 1466 Fri-Sun 8-10pm


I've also noticed that Exchange & Mart now carries advertisements for a whole
range of services for TVs, in the 'adult' section at the back.

-- 
       ---------------------------------------------------------
James S Hooton    disclaimer: any society that   james@matrix.demon.co.uk
Merstham          needs disclaimers has far      james@cix.compulink.co.uk
Surrey England    too many laywers.              jamesh@qukdev.quad.com
Newsgroups: alt.transgendered,alt.flame
From: an1167@anon.penet.fi (Rita)
Subject: Re: Against My Will
X-Anonymously-To: alt.transgendered
Organization: Anonymous contact service
Date: Wed, 16 Dec 1992 01:18:18 GMT

Stephanie,

Thanks so much for sharing that posting - it very clearly showed how many of
us feel and how strong the desires can be.  That took a lot of courage.

Did you know that Ernest Hemingway was also made to dress like a girl at an
early age, by his mother and sisters?  Some say that's one reason he went so
all out to be macho as a grown man.  Who can say...

Best of luck to you.

**hugs**

Rita
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