HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.christia
Subject: Re: Moses and the Prophets
From: comjohn@ccu1.aukuni.ac.nz (Mr. John T Jensen)
Date: Wed, 2 Sep 1992 00:27:38 GMT
Organization: University of Auckland, New Zealand.

scsd1055@altair.selu.edu writes:

>>Subject: Their Lady of Cold Springs
>>From: Tom Brewer <NOTTMB@LSUVM.BITNET>
>>Date: Tue, 1 Sep 1992 09:30:35 CDT
>>
>>[...]
>>"They have Moses and the prophets...."
>>
>>Tom Brewer


>	What the heck do you mean by that?  Are you picking on Jews now?  

I haven't paid much attention to this thread, but the above is a quote from
the parable of Lazarus and the rich man (Luke 16:19-31).  The rich man, in
torment, says to Father Abraham (here, if you wish, is praying to dead
saints!):  "I pray thee therefore, father, that thou wouldest send him to my
father's house; for I have five brethren; that he may testify unto them,
lest they also come into this place of torment.  But Abraham saith, They
have Moses and the prophets; let them hear them.  And he said, Nay, father
Abraham: but if one go to them from the dead, they will repent.  And he said
unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be
persuaded, if one rise from the dead."  I think the poster's intent was to
say that the alleged 'continuous revelation' of Roman Catholicism (I am not
personally persuaded that it ought to be called that, but no doubt the
poster is) is unnecessary, on the grounds that, as Jesus quotes Abraham as
saying, the Scripture itself is enough.  I do not think the poster had any
anti-jewism intent.

jj

John Thayer Jensen                      64 9 373 7599 ext. 7543
Commerce Computer Services              64 9 373 7437 (FAX)
Auckland University                     jt.jensen@aukuni.ac.nz
Private Bag 92019
AUCKLAND
New Zealand
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Date:         Thu, 3 Sep 1992 14:16:10 CDT
From:         Jesse Carnes <NOTJIC@LSUVM.BITNET>
Subject:      Re: 2 Peter 3
              2 Sep 1992 11:51:19 EDT from <LMENDELS@CMS.CC.WAYNE.EDU>

Dear Lon ;

The REAL question behind my study/queries on Eschatology a la Matt 24 et al.,
is : "HOW do we KNOW when we have correctly interpreted the Bible?"
The issue on the Second Advent is sort of a vehicle to this end.
Now, my initial installment on the Parousia WAS serious.
I want MYSELF and EVERYONE to know how to come up with the right answers.
However, we must ask the correct questions and we must correctly implement
the prescribed tools to render the correct interpretation.

Lon, I feel that the Preterist (historical) view of eschatology is valid ;
esp. in this case of matt 24 because it deals with CONTEXT honestly, be it
grammatical or historical context.

Whatever Jesus said in Mt 24, it was relevant to those to whom He was
addressing at THAT time.  The context gives no clue as to a future
orientation and thus they would have not taken one into inference.
To take one into inference when there is none is to be exegetically
flawed at best and dishonest at worst.


Jesse Carnes
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Date:         Fri, 4 Sep 1992 08:15:49 CDT
From:         Jesse Carnes <NOTJIC@LSUVM.BITNET>
Subject:      Re: 2 Peter 3
              3 Sep 1992 16:11:50 EDT from <LMENDELS@CMS.CC.WAYNE.EDU>

Lon ;

Please quit accusing me of "dodging" your questions.
At least you did not accuse me of equivocating ...  :-)

Seriously, My job is production-oriented and they want to see stats.
My job is not as laissez-faire as some, so I have to go with God's will
in this matter.
I gave you an Internal-evidence argument for my theory.
Look, no matter how you cut it, the Word of God was written FIRSTLY to those
who initially received it ... we can also profit from it, but not always like
they did, and we are, as it were, reading someone else' mail.

I still want to see you deal with my internal contextual polemic.
Will you do it???



Jesse
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Newsgroups: bit.listserv.christia
Date:         Tue, 25 Aug 1992 19:20:21 EDT
From:         JEK@NIHCU.BITNET
Subject:      Salvation and the Church

Marty writes (in response to Kerry):

 > I did not see any mention of Christ requiring the Church to
 > enable Him to forgive sins. ...

The reference is to a post by David Moreau on Fri 21 Aug 1992.
David's point, as I understand it, is that one man cannot be
punished for another man's sin (Deut 24:16), and that one man's
righteousness cannot be transferred to another man. But the Church
is the Body of Christ. As Christians, we are made one with Him; we
are baptized into His death, and so we die with Him and are raised
with Him. We share in His glorified humanity, in His perfection and
holiness. Thus, Christ saves us by uniting us with Him. And that
union is the Mystical Body of Christ, aka the Church.

 Yours,
 James Kiefer
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Organization: Samford University
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.christia
Date:         Fri, 28 Aug 1992 09:23:02 CDT
From:         Renee Autry <SRAUTRY@SAMFORD.BITNET>
Subject:      Radical feminism, the ERA and Pat Robertson

I think Kerry did an excellent job of summerizing the position of many
radical feminists.  I would agree that this agenda  does support the
statement by Mr. Robertson. However, as Kerry pointed out, there are
varying degrees of the feminist position.  My guess is that most women
(this is a guess, no evidence whatsoever for this statement aside from
personal) are not *radical* feminists.  Therefore, I am still perplexed
regarding Mr. Robertson's statement.  How will the ERA lead women to become
radical feminists?  And how does *he* define radical feminism?  Kerry's
definition?  Hillary Clinton?  A woman who wants equal pay for equal work?
A mother who does not choose to stay at home with her children?

Anyone know?

Thanks,

       Renee
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Date:         Thu, 3 Sep 1992 13:32:29 -0600
From:         "Karolyn S. Karge" <kkarge@SILVER.SDSMT.EDU>
Subject:      Re: Christian Youth

One thing that our youth group did when they were trying to raise money
to go to a yourth gathering in Dallas, TX, was to put on a couple of
dinners.  One that went over well, was a spaghetti dinner around
Valintines day.  The kids had to be all dressed up, and then they
served dinner to everybody that bought tickets.  It was suppost to be
a romantic dinner for the couples that came.  They were also presented
a picture of themselves at the dinner.  The kids had a blast, seeing
some of the older couples, acting like young kids, and dressing up,
and seeing even some of there friends come as couples.  The best part
was after everybody left, and the kids who served got together and
eat the spaghetti!  Talk about some funny pictures, kids all dressed
up and spaghetti, and spaghetti sauce all over their face. :)
Of course, most of the food was donated by the kids, and their family's,
but the kids did the cooking (of course with the guideance of the youth
advisor), and it was very good.

Just an idea that worked for us.

In His Love,
Karolyn
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Date:         Fri, 4 Sep 1992 02:17:44 EST
From:         Kerry Stephenson <KSTE@PURCCVM.BITNET>
Subject:      moral values

Hi all:

This morning I happened to catch the Montel Williams show.  They were
talking about kids, schools, and drugs.  There was this 19-year old
girl behind the screen who was/is a drug pusher.  She merrily detailed
how she entices high school and junior high kids by giving them some
free drugs, hooking them, and making a killing (pun intended) on them
afterward.  She talked about selling PCP, Herion, Crystal Meth, LSD,
Mushrooms, Crack, Cocaine, and Prescription drugs.  She makes an
average of $5000 a week.  She comes from a wealthy family, but her parents
only pay her living expenses.  "I have to make my own money for myself,"
she said.
  A girl in the audience (14, maybe 15) stood up and asked "Don't you have
any moral values?"
  The girl behind the screen indignantly replied, "Of course I have moral
values.  But this is a way to make money."

  Don't tell me there isn't a problem out there.  And don't tell me that
*this* is an example of "moral values."

Love INC,
         --Kerry
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Date:         Mon, 31 Aug 1992 12:32:59 EDT
From:         Leo W <Leo_W@QM.CIRCA.UFL.EDU>
Subject:      Scripturette 8/31
X-To:         Christia <christia@asuvm.inre.asu.edu>

"That is the way we should live, because God's grace has come.  That grace can
save every person.  It teaches us not to live against God and not to do the
evil things the world wants to do.  That grace teaches us to live on earth now
in a wise and right way -- a way that shows that we serve God.  We should live
like that while we are waiting for the coming of our great God and Savior Jesus
Christ.  He is our great hope, and he will come with glory.  He gave himself
for us; and he died to free us from all evil.  He died to make us pure people
who belong only to him -- people who are always wanting to do good things"
(Titus 2:11-14).

Yours in Christ Jesus,
Leo

Scriptures quoted from the International Children's Bible (ICB), New Century
Version, copyright 1986, 1988 by Word Publishing, Dallas, Texas 75039.  Used by
permission.
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Date:         Thu, 27 Aug 1992 16:55:31 EST
From:         Ian Williams <iwilliam@AU.ORACLE.COM>
Subject:      Dangerous Place!!!

Dangerous Place, Julie Miller..

Little ones to Him belong
Little ones where have you gone?
Was it a war that stilled your voice?
No - It was your mothers choice.

Where was the doctors healing hand
When children die accross the land?
Was he in search of saving lives?
No - Death came from his knife

It's a dangerous, dangerous
Dangerous Place
It's a dangerous, dangerous
Place to be these days

Now five months only you'll survive
But until your born, well your not alive!
Convenience has a sacrifice
And children are the price

It's a dangerous, dangerous
Dangerous Place

The Mothers Womb is a dangerous
Place to be these days.

Little ones to Him belong
You are weak and we were Wrong!
Now we will never hear your voice
And it was our whole choice..
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Original_To:  BITNET%"CHRISTIA@ASUACAD.BITNET"
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Date:         Wed, 2 Sep 1992 00:15:00 CDT
From:         "Love does not subtract, it multiplies." <HOLZMAN@FNAL.BITNET>
Subject:      RE: Dan read this ... Jesse

<Dear Dan ;
<Sorry about the open letter.
<Please read my installment on the second coming of Jesus.
<We can talk if you are interested.
<
<
<
<
<
<Jesse "still alive from thhe tempest" Carnes

I don't know if this is addressed to me or not.  If so, I missed both the
letter and the installment.

Dan
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Date:         Tue, 1 Sep 1992 09:24:19 CDT
From:         Jesse Carnes <NOTJIC@LSUVM.BITNET>
Subject: Re: Has Jesus Returned???

Dear Memo and others interested ;

Again, I will have to put these things in short bites due to a time
shortage.
Here, concerning the Second Coming of Christ, it is formally called the
"Second Parousia" in theological terms.
Now, all I can do in this short installment is address hermeneutics and
its relation to my "Preterist/Amillennial"view toward Eschatology.
Mainly, the REAL concept I am talking about is the Historico-Grammatical
context of large sections like Matt 24-25, Mk 13, Luke 21, etc.
But, for my intents, Mt 24 will suffice, unless there are questions about
other sections of Scripture.

When one reads eschatological/narrative sections like Mt. 24-25, we have to
ask, "WHOM is Jesus addressing directlyin this section?" This is part of the
exegetical context. Christ is addressing John, James, Peter, and Andrew ...
when you compare the Mark account for the info.
So, now that we know that Jesus is addressing these four persons directly,
we must ask, "WHAT is the ISSUE at question?"
These four had asked a three-pronged query of Christ.
Christ answers their question.
(I will deal the content later today or tomorrow ... jic)

Nevertheless, we must establish hermeneutical ground rules.
What I mean is this, we have already dealt with TWO important historical
context issues and one more follows on its heals :
"How would Jesus' answer be understood by THEM, and HOW was that answer
relevant to THEM?"




Jesse Carnes
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Newsgroups: bit.listserv.christia
Date:         Wed, 26 Aug 1992 09:11:52 CDT
From:         JRALLS@TRINITY.BITNET
Subject:      prayer request for Robin

Dear listfolk,

Earlier this summer, many of you prayed for Robin, the granddaughter of
my neighbor. She was in a very serious auto accident and nearly died.
Besides the many injuries that she suffered in the accident itself,
in the aftermath she had 2 strokes which have left her with limited
use of her right hand and weakness in her legs, and her speech has been
affected. But through all that, the Lord carried her; she was released
from the hospital and went into rehabilitation and was improving.

Just a couple of weeks ago the doctors discovered that Robin has an
aneurysm in her brain. One doctor wants to operate, another doesn't,
and still another doesn't think it's an aneurysm at all.

Now Robin feels that she is living in a bomb. She could have another
stroke at any time-minor or major. She is very down, and the future
doesn't look very bright now. Please pray for her. She has been
moved to San Antonio for more rehab, and will live in an apartment
across the street from the rehab center (but alone, I think).

I will see Robin this weekend as she will be staying at her
grandmother's house, and then I can visit her during the week as
I work in San Antonio. Pray for me, that I will be a welcome visitor
for her.

Because of the beginning of the school year, a computer workshop and
other pressure at work I have set NOMAIL for awhile (only a short
time, I hope). I welcome personal email however, and am comforted
to know that you will keep Robin in your prayers.

Thank you all. God willing I'll be back soon.

JoEllen Ralls                       Jralls@trinity (Bitnet)
Elizabeth Coates Maddux Library     Jralls@trinity.edu (Internet)
Trinity University                  so many books,
San Antonio, Texas                          so little time...
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Date:         Tue, 1 Sep 1992 15:29:15 EDT
From:         "Stepehn Kotchen/President-Cardinals Club,
              Deaf" <CA36%CATCC.BITNET@VTVM2.CC.VT.EDU>
Subject:      Liberty University's Fate
X-To:         CHRISTIA%ASUACAD.BITNET@VTVM2.CC.VT.EDU

  I just joined Christia-L bitnet and I am Stephen Kotchen.  I sometimes
concerned about Liberty University's future. I have heard that Liberty
University is about going to fold down. If so, Can anyone explain about
it if anyone know about it??

-Stephen Kotchen
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Date:         Thu, 27 Aug 1992 21:45:33 -0700
From:         MARK DRAKE <DRAKE@ASUCHM.LA.ASU.EDU>
Subject:      "The Seed" by Wiley
X-To:         christia@asuvm.inre.asu.edu

	For those of you who have the opportunity to read the comic B.C.
but don't take advantage of it, for shame!  Here is an example:

The Seed,

By Wiley.

A seed is such a miraculous thing
It can sit on a shelf forever.

But how it knows what to do when it's stuck in the ground,
Is what makes it so clever.

It draws nutrients from the soil through its roots,
And gathers its force from the sun.

It puts forth a whole lot of blossoms and fruit,
Then reseeds itself when it is done.

Who programmed the seed to know just what to do?
And who put the sun in the sky?

And who put the food in the dirt, for the roots?
And who told the bees to come by?

And who makes the water to fall from above,
To refresh and make everything pure?

Perhaps all of this is a product of love.
And perhaps it happened by chance.
			Yeah, sure.


	Always be sure to read B.C. around Christmas, Easter, etc.


Mark
drake@asuchm.la.asu.edu
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Date:         Thu, 27 Aug 1992 16:14:15 EST
From:         Ian Williams <iwilliam@AU.ORACLE.COM>
Subject:      Re: Forgiveness of Sins, by Priests?
X-To:         CHRISTIA@ASUVM.INRE.ASU.EDU
              Hutter" at Aug 26, 92 10:21 am

To me , the scripture on confessing our sins to one another means
that if I have sinned against YOU then I need to confess that sin to YOU..

If I steal from you, I should confess it to you, seek your forgivness and
then also compensate for your loss. Scripture likewise says is you forgive
my sin then it is forgiven, but if you do not ,then it is not forgiven..

I do not believe however that I need to confess my Sin committed against YOU
to a priest/pastor/elder. Its between you, me and God. Likewise if I sin
against God then its between Him and ME..



---------------------+-------------+-----------------------------------------
Ian Williams         |    _--_|\   |      Internet: iwilliam@au.oracle.com
Oracle Systems       |   /      \  |	  Phone	  : +61 8 239 3900
Adelaide, Australia  |   \_.--*_/  |
                     |         v   |
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Date:         Wed, 26 Aug 1992 18:10:52 PST
From:         FRANK@LAW.UCLA.EDU
Subject:      Re: Mary and sinlessness

> If the vision was real, why should the tree have to be there?


Kerry --

I'm puzzled as well.  The tree had become the greater object.
Somehow this was a holy tree to them.  The owners didn't want the
tree to be THE object nor the vision to be THE object.  They had
hoped that, without the tree, without the aparition(sp?), people would
turn their sights back to God.  To not seek him in the tree, but, in
their hearts.

Again, as I said in another posting.  If God wants to appear to us in
a tree or pot roast or whatever then He can.  It is irrelevant the
medium.  As long as the message is true.

Yours in puzzlement,

Frank
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Date:         Mon, 31 Aug 1992 18:03:45 EDT
From:         Bernice Tennant <U1A9A@WVNVM.BITNET>
Subject:      Re: Lord, I lilft your name...

Praise Him again!
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Date:         Sun, 30 Aug 1992 16:37:28 EDT
From:         JEK@NIHCU.BITNET
Subject: Re: Genesis 19 in the light of Luke 10

A column in the New York Times (Op-Ed page, Mon 17 August 1992)
undertook to interpret Genesis 19 in the light of Luke 10. A
listmember forwarded it to this list, and a listmember remarked that
the connection between the passages is obscure. I yielded (probably
a mistake) to the temptation to explain what the original columnist
probably had in mind, and Kerry has written a rebuttal.

In order to spare the majority of listmembers a discussion that many
of them have heard before and are heartly sick of, I am replying to
Kerry off-list. Copies on request. I will say only that my use of
the word "inhospitality" was unfortunate, in that it suggested a
fault of negligence rather than a deliberate act. A better term
would have been "violation of the rights of travelers, strangers,
and guests."

 Yours,
 James Kiefer
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Date:         Mon, 31 Aug 1992 14:11:59 CDT
From:         Jesse Carnes <NOTJIC@LSUVM.BITNET>
Subject: Re: Has Jesus Returned???

Dear Memo ;

Nice humour ... a bit unascertainable as to your intent, however.
Or, if you were a bit testy, could you elaboratewithout any drawn talons?




Jesse
From: FACN34B@SAUPM00.BITNET (zane of dhahran)
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.christia
Subject: Church & Rome
Date: 31 Aug 92 11:04:56 GMT
Organization: King Fahd University of Petroleum and Minerals, S.A.
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this is the way I see it in parable form:
There were two families.  The Jesus family and the Adam's family.  The Jesus
family grew and grew and they all had the same Father and Older Brother. (In
fact they lived together).  They spread out all over the place and shared the
same Jesusgenetic Life, no matter where they were and what language they spoke.
As any family though, there was a lot of variety.

Soon, the Adam's family started trying to waste the Jesus family, although
many of the Adam's family died in the process and many more kids were born to
the Jesus family.  They were organized like any family.  They had a Father,
and everybody listened to Him, though like all kids, they messed up once in a
while.  Sometimes the brothers and sisters even fought.

After a couple of hundred years, the Jesus family grew and grew.  They were all
over and some of them didn't see any of the others, or even hear of them in the
ir lifetimes.  But they all shared the same name nevertheless.

Then the Adam's family, after several attempts to wipe out the Jesus family got
an idea.  They would form a family association for the Jesus family and control
them that way.  Some of the Jesus family thought a family organization would be
a good idea.  They could organize reunions and everything.  They could publish
family newsletters and stuff too.
From: paladin@peacemaker.EBay.Sun.COM (Joe Davis)
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.christia
Subject: Re: all of the above
Date: 25 Aug 1992 22:32:30 GMT
Organization: Sun Microsystems, Inc.
Distribution: world
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NNTP-Posting-Host: peacemaker.ebay.sun.com

   CCCAMPER@MIZZOU1.BITNET (Elizabeth Stevens) writes:

   (...much deleted)

   Jesus warned of the anti-christ. He warned the anti-christ would get
   people to follow him by false signs and wonders. How very different
   this is, a man in human form deceiving many and leading them away
   from God.....as opposed to God working through His prophets to send
   us encouragement to remain in Him. To live in and through His Word.
   To love one another. To pray for others that they might also come
   to know Him. To fast.

Elizabeth,

I'm a little concerned about your statement here.  I see very little
difference in "a man in human form deceiving many and leading them away
from God" and "God working through His prophets to send us encouragement 
to remain in Him".  The devil is the great deceiver and may come phrasing
the Lord and announcing the Word as the Truth, but twisting the words to
meet his own agenda.  The devil can work from within the Church and most
likely is.  If there is still revelation from God today, then how do we
discern what is false and what is true?  If your answer is that we must
rely on the Bible, then I agree and say the Bible is complete, and that
we must beware of false prophets.

Joe Davis

[For I testify unto every man that heareth the words of the prophecy of
this book, If any man shall add unto these things, God shall add unto him
the plagues that are written in this book:  And if any man shall take away
from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part
out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things
which are written in this book.] -Revelation 22:18-19
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