HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: anajam@athena.mit.edu (ADIL NAJAM)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.pakistan
Subject: ....qatl karnay waalouN say....
Date: 1 Oct 92 03:08:34 GMT
Article-I.D.: athena.1992Oct1.030834.24874
Organization: Massachusetts Institute of Technology


	mairay zameer nay Qabeel ko nahiN bakhsha
	meiN kaisay sullah karoouN, qatl karnay waalouN say

	[my conscience has still not forgiven Kane
	 how can I make peace with those who kill?]



	ADIL [insaan ko insaan ki nazrouN say gira kar
	      insaan samajhta hai kay insaan khuda hai] NAJAM
Newsgroups: soc.culture.pakistan
From: yasin@laser.dev.cdx.mot.com (Yasin)
Subject: PIA flight to Nepal MISSING
Organization: MOTOROLA 
Date: Mon, 28 Sep 1992 16:08:03 GMT

Just heard it from BBC (0900 EST, 9/28)
PIA flight from Karachi to Khatmandu is missing, 
feared that about 170 people aboard are killed.

The flight was on radio contact with the Khatmandu
tower, and every thing was OK, the Airbus was flying
over the jungle about 40 miles from Khatmandu.

Khatmandu is a very notoriously famous airport as
it is sorrounded by one of the tallest mountains of
the world. 

Please post any further developments.......

Yasin.
From: jawad@ecst.csuchico.edu (Jawad Ali)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.pakistan
Subject: Asian models, a friendly disagreement and some extra :-)'s
Date: 4 Oct 92 20:30:37 GMT
Organization: California State University, Chico
NNTP-Posting-Host: cscihp.ecst.csuchico.edu



In article <718217983@halibut.cs.duke.edu> azhar@duke.cs.duke.edu (D. Salman [Quintessential] Azhar) writes:
>In article <1992Oct2.162738.10901@crc.ac.uk> fkhurshi@crc.ac.uk (Ms F. Khurshid) writes:
>>There has been a lot of publicity in the press here over the lack of
>>interest from Asian girls to enter the modelling business. 
>
>           Pakistani society is divided on the issue: One group
>considers models no better (in social class) that prostitutes, and the
>other group considers models no better than actors/actresses.

It is a charactarization that is not entirely without merit, afterall,
modelling does have elements of actiung and prostitution.  One way to elevate
the status of modeling could be by elevating the status of the other
two more established professions. :-)

>The most
>avid movie-watchers in pakistan would prefer death to the sight of
>their close female relatives as lead actress in a any movie.

Nobody has ever complained about the shortage of *munafaqeen* in our
society.  The Pakistani magazines that I get a chance to look at in
both English and Urdu have their own policies in this regard.  First
there is an editorial or opinion piece about how our socity degrades,
exploits and objectifies women.  And just in case someone has not fully
understood the concept, there are the fashion pages.  The bodies on
display are almost always female and there is little doubt that 
anything besides their sexuality is being displayed in various stages
of undress. (Sorry folks, I am not providing any gif files for you
to make independent confirmations:-)


>The
>result is a dearth of Pakistani females who are encouraged to take up
>modelling. 
>
Considering what I have said above, this may not be a bad thing:-)

> Asians (Desis), especially
>Pakistanis, North Indians, and East Indians, are considered quite
>attractive and chrming by most of the western world. (All my american
>friend find ugly Pakistani girls knockouts. :-))

Maybe... Just maybe... those Pakistani girls really are attractive
(or neutral :-) and it is you who sees them as ugly (what a horrible thing
to say).  One possible expalination is given in the next paragraph :-) :-)

>           BTW, black models only flooded the US market when blacks
>started respecting themselves, and newage whites thought it was cool
>to say "Some of by best friends are black." It may be cool for a
>western dude to say some of my best friends are Paksitanis, but
>Pakistanis haven't overcome the inferiority complex.
>
>
>                         Salman [looking for "model Asians"] Azhar

j n a.
sees "namoona Asians" everywhere :) :)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.pakistan
From: onf@cbnewsg.cb.att.com (omar.farooq)
Subject: Newsbrief
Organization: AT&T
Date: Mon, 28 Sep 1992 17:53:05 GMT

Just heard on CNN this afternoon that a PIA airbus going
from Karachi to Katmandu crashed while trying to land at the
airport.  All the people are presumed dead.  Apparently, the 
airport's situated among high mountains and doesn't have any radar.
A Thai airbus also crashed there earlier this year.


Newsgroups: soc.culture.pakistan
From: kekare@mecad.uta.edu (Sagar A. Kekare)
Subject: Gazal by Shakeel Badaayuni
Reply-To: kekare@mecad.uta.edu (Sagar A. Kekare)
Organization: University of Texas at Arlington
Date: Tue, 6 Oct 1992 04:58:07 GMT


Friends,
Here is a gazal by shakeel badaayuni :

Gham-e-aashiqui se kah do rah-e-aam tak na pahuNche
Mujhe khauf hai ye tohamat mere naam tak na pahuNche

MaiN nazar se pi rahaa thaa ke ye dil ne bad-duaa di
Teraa haath zindagi bhar kabhi jaam tak na pahuNche

Nai subah par nazar hai magar aah ye bhi dar hai
Ye sahar bhi raftaa raftaa kahiN shaam tak na pahuNche

Ye adaa-e-beniyaazi tujhe bewafaa mubaarak
Magar aisee berukhi kyaa ki salaam tak na pahuNche

Jo naqaab-e-rukh uthaa di to ye qaid bhi lagaa di
Uthe har nigaah lekin koi baam tak na pahuNche

Hope you will like it.
Sagar
( Chalo achhaa huaa kaam aa gai deewaangi apani
   wagarnaa ham zamaane bhar ko samajhaane kahaaN jaate )
Organization: Arizona State University
Date: Friday, 25 Sep 1992 20:02:51 MST
From: Nadeem Haque <ICNXH@ASUACAD.BITNET>
Newsgroups: soc.culture.india,soc.culture.pakistan
Subject: Newsgroup for urdu poetry

I feel there is a need for such a newsgroup. I would like it to be
restricted to urdu peoms and discussions on urdu peotry only. It'll
be an excellent opportunity for urdu poetry lovers to enjoy it
without having to go through all the other postings on sci and scp.
It may sound enthsiastic and may be proven wrong in due course of
time, but I don't foresee any volume problem to justify the creation
or existence of such a newsgroup.
Newsgroups: soc.culture.pakistan
From: usman@leland.Stanford.EDU (Usman Hameed)
Subject: Re: dEVELOPING RELATIONSHIPS AMONG paks
Organization: DSG, Stanford University, CA 94305, USA
Date: Tue, 29 Sep 92 17:21:06 GMT

In article <dogar.717178803@opal4> dogar@rtsg.mot.com (Haroon H. Dogar) writes:
>usman@leland.Stanford.EDU (Usman Hameed) writes:
>
>Do you have anything similar at Stanford? Who is this Brother Hamza we keep
>hearing about?

Very interesting hearing about the Inner Circle and 312K.  It seems 
a lot more fun, socially, than Stanford. It is California and all that,
but the bottom line is that the campus, and the retirement community
of Palo Alto, are quite irreparably dead!!  To meet real people
and have an entertaining evening, one must take the hour long drive to
San Francisco, which is by far the most liveable city in the country.

As for Brother Hamza, I must defer to my brother Sahibzada
Abdur Rafay Khan Textile-Mill-Walla, Jaguar owner, and blonde
connoisseur extraordinaire.  He alone can shed light on the great
Hamza.

Usman
From: memg2102@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu
Newsgroups: soc.culture.pakistan
Subject: How much is an Iraqi dinar worth?
Date: 30 Sep 92 22:24:34 GMT
Article-I.D.: news.BvEwwy.3y7
Organization: University of Illinois at Urbana


 I am curious to know how much an Iraqi dinar is worth (in dollars).  I
 would greately appreciate the information.
 Marlon Menezes
 memg2102@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu
 
Newsgroups: soc.culture.pakistan
From: onf@cbnewsg.cb.att.com (omar.farooq)
Subject: re: Asian Models?
Organization: AT&T
Date: Mon, 5 Oct 1992 14:40:39 GMT

-------------------------------------------------------
Article 28765 (6 more) in soc.culture.pakistan:
Newsgroups: soc.culture.indian,soc.culture.pakistan
From: fkhurshi@crc.ac.uk (Ms F. Khurshid)
Subject: Asian models?
Followup-To: soc.culture.indian
Keywords: modelling agencies and advertising
Organization: MRC Human Genome Resource Centre
Distribution: world,na
Date: Fri, 2 Oct 1992 16:27:38 GMT

There has been a lot of publicity in the press here over the lack of
interest from Asian girls to enter the modelling business. Top modelling
agencies are now actively seeking the first Asian supermodel to rival the big
names like Naomi Campbell, Linda Evangelista etc....as the few who have made
it have been half-castes ((Yasmeen Ghauri -Asian/Canadian).

Well WE KNOW there are a lot of beautiful, exquisite asian women out there
and I have seen some advertising, well  ....Basmati rice :-), ....gold ..and
the latest fashionable 'shalwar kameez'. Haven't they been stereotyped in
the kind of modelling they do?  I've never seen a 'strong' image come across
by the advertisers of any Asians (male or female) .....could it be a case of
white skin sells and black doesnt?

How does it compare to how they are portrayed in advertising in Asian countries
themselves?


--
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Farha Khurshid                               email: fkhurshi@uk.ac.mrc-crc
Imperial Cancer Research Fund                     : f_khurshid@icrf.icnet.uk
f_khurshid@icrf.icnet.uk
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
---------------------------------------------------------------

I think that the color barriers are slowly coming down, since in the past
most of the big models were blondes (Christie Brinkley, Cheryl Tiegs, etc.).
And there are plenty of models of mixed ethnic background here that are
either well-known or on their way up: Campbell, Iman, and few others whose
faces are familiar but their names aren't.

I had the opportunity to meet Yasmeen Ghauri in New York once, since a friend
of mine is an assistant designer for Chanel and a graduate student at NYU in 
communications, and I went to a fashion show and got to talk to her.  I asked 
her about her background and she said that her Mother is German and father is 
Indian, who moved to Pakistan before coming to Montreal, Canada. 
She also said that it's not the color of the skin that does or doesn't sell, but
the conservative taboos that restrict people from our part of the world to go 
into media related professions, especially Muslims, since imagery and physical 
displays are very much frowned down upon.

But as someone mentioned before, the magazine Libas out of U.K. is certainly
giving us and the world, a view of the South Asian artistic and fashion
sense, in a contemporary context, that was previously guarded by cultural and religious traditions.

Omar

omar.farooq@att.com
Newsgroups: soc.culture.pakistan
From: hwb@vax5.cit.cornell.edu (Shailesh Panth)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.pakistan
Subject: Re: PIA crash-some facts
Date: 2 Oct 92 18:52:46 EDT
Distribution: na,soc
Organization: Cornell University

In article <1992Oct1.005634.24263@unixg.ubc.ca>,
banarji@unixg.ubc.ca (Ajai Banarji) writes: 
> 	        	PIA Crash-some facts
> 
>   The recent crash near Katmandu was the worst in PIA's history with a death
> roll of 167. The earlier major disasters of PIA were near Cairo in 1965 (121
> dead) and in Saudi Arabia in 1979 (156 dead).    ........
> 
>   I wonder what there is in Katmandu which has caused the two crashes of
> aircraft with such a good safety record.
>  .........

    
	Kathmandu is a valley sorrounded by high hills and landing procedure
at Kathmandu airport is supposed to be very tricky. From what I know, after
a plane passes the final hill and comes into the valley, it has to descend 
at the rate of 2000 feet per minute as opposed to the normal rate of 600.

	In the case of the PIA Airbus, it is said that it was flying at
7,500 feet when it should have been at 9000 feet, so it slammed into the
hill which was between 8,300 and 8,500 feet high.

	And the Thai Airbus accident probe (not complete yet) seems to point
at flap problems. When it aborted the landing at Kathmandu, instead of
turning south to avoid the Himalayas, it went North and slammed into a
Himalayan mountain.

	It should be noted, however, that Kathmandu airport does not have a
radar system which enables tower officials to warn planes if ther are flying
off course or too low.
	
-- 
*****************************************************************
*   Jaya Desh, Jaya Ganesh....					*
*								*
*   Shailesh Panth	      hwb@vax5.cit.cornell.edu		*
*   Cornell University	      hwb@cornella.bitnet		*
*   Ithaca, NY 14853						*
*****************************************************************
Newsgroups: soc.culture.pakistan
From: hareb_s@cubldr.colorado.edu
Subject: Economic Aid
Organization: University of Colorado, Boulder
Date: Sun, 27 Sep 1992 15:46:13 GMT

(I have posted this before -- I am still
waiting for an answer.. Thankyou)


I have question for any Bahii who will care to 
provide an answer.

I have noticed recently that Pakistan has 
contributed several millions and promised more
of monetary aid for different recepiants 
including Afghanistan, Bosnia (and may be Somalia -
I am not sure ..).

This is a very good feat indeed. My question
is: How was Pakistan government able to 
do this. I thought Pakistan is suffering
economically, but this is really contrary to
what I percieved.


I know that Allah is the Razzaq and have no problem
with that and I am happy to hear such news. Only
thing I want to be enlightened by some
knowledgable brother on this issue. 

Jazak Allah Khair in Advance,

Saeed,-- ........ L.H.W.L.Q.I.B.A



Newsgroups: soc.culture.pakistan
From: dogar@rtsg.mot.com (Haroon H. Dogar)
Subject: Re: ISLAMIC FOUNDATION FAIR & NON-PAKS?
Organization: Motorola Inc., Cellular Infrastructure Group
Date: Thu, 1 Oct 1992 15:43:01 GMT


Now now Muddassir (or is it Mark? :-)) I don't recall seeing
you there. :-) I guess you must have gone incognito so that
you could enjoy the "veritable cornucopia of lust" though
I must admit that it's no match for Inner Circle. :-)

While most of your post was pretty funny, your blaming
the suffering in Bosnia on the devoutness of those Muslims
was truly despicable. Using that logic, one might say that 
the sufferring and the Hindu-Muslim riots in your native
Hyderabad should be viewed as Allah's punishment of
those Muslims. One might then conclude that it would
be wrong to intervene or aid those Muslims as it would
be against Allah's will. 

Well? Do you "Paks for a better Pak" believe that the world
should just let the Indian Muslims die?

Other than that, keep up the funny posts. This group could
use a little more humor. :-)

-hd
doonga marr ghandassay nu
dthar taun sirr wakkara si kita
.............hattaun rundi kita



Newsgroups: soc.culture.pakistan
From: salama@topaz.ucq.edu.au
Newsgroups: soc.culture.pakistan
Subject: Re: How much is an Iraqi dinar worth?
Date: 1 Oct 92 14:56:04 AET
Organization: UCQ

In article <BvEwwy.3y7@news.cso.uiuc.edu>, memg2102@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu () writes:
>  I am curious to know how much an Iraqi dinar is worth (in dollars).  I
>  would greately appreciate the information.
>  Marlon Menezes
>  memg2102@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu
>
    I can tell you Iraqi dinar's rate in Pakistani rupees :-), after all
it is soc.culture.pakistan. Then you can get it converted to US dollars
in soc.culture.american. How's that!
From: basit@pender.ee.upenn.edu (Azhar Basit)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.pakistan
Subject: need pakitan gifs
Date: 2 Oct 92 21:36:35 GMT
Reply-To: basit@pender.ee.upenn.edu (Azhar Basit)
Organization: University of Pennsylvania

Assalam -alaikum

 I know this has been asked before but can anybody tell me some gif
sites with pics from pakistan in it.

 There was one site : z.eecs.umich.edu but I can't seem to anonymous ftp
over there.

 Please respond in SCP or via email


-thanks 
-Azhar
From: cczaziz@unicorn.nott.ac.uk
Newsgroups: soc.culture.pakistan
Subject: "Excessive questioning" (was Re: Islam and science)
Date: 6 Oct 92 16:01:38 GMT
Organization: Cripps Computing Centre, University of Nottingham
Originator: cczaziz@unicorn.nott.ac.uk

In some articles, i.e.

<1992Oct5.114520.30549@davidsys.com>merchant@davidsys.com (Rukhsana Merchant)
<1992Oct3.162231.7382@sarah.albany.edu>ys3359@thor.albany.edu (Yazmasterj)
<1992Oct2.124531.30546@davidsys.com>merchant@davidsys.com (Rukhsana Merchant)

a Hadith report has been cited, quoting the Holy Prophet as follows:

   What I have forbidden to you, avoid; what I have ordered
   you [to do], do as much of it as you can.  It was only their
   excessive questioning and their disagreeing with their
   Prophets that destroyed those who were before you.


The translation "excessive questioning" is creating a SERIOUS
MISCONCEPTION, and producing an impression almost OPPOSITE to what is
intended.

"Excessive questioning" here means asking questions relating to
matters of trivial and small details, and wanting to be told what to
do in the minutest possible detail, AND NOT USING YOUR OWN REASON,
JUDGMENT AND DISCRETION. For instance, we are taught the broad
principles about prayer, its aims and philosophy, and general form.
But people enquire about the precise details of exactly how and where
to fold their arms, at what angle to bow, what to wear, and its design
and length, etc. By raising excessive questions of this kind, not only
are we led away from achieving the real purpose of the particular
commandment, but by fixing the answers we lose the flexibility which
should be allowed in these matters.

The Holy Quran itself tells us: "O you who believe, ask not about
things which if made known to you would give you trouble. ... a people
before you indeed asked such questions, then became disbelievers
therein." (5:101-102)

This relates to the same sort of small details, for which one should
use one's own judgment and reason, based on the basic principles we
have ben taught clearly. If you fix the answers to such matters, it
leads to rigidity which subsequently causes trouble. The reference
here is also to the Israelites whose law deals with points of minute
detail, and as a result it becomes beyond the individual's capacity to
observe all those rules. That, of course, has also become the case
with Islam as preached by most Muslim religious leaders today.

As to questioning in the sense of trying to satisfy yourself about the
validity of some belief or teaching, the Holy Quran and the Prophet
Muhammad encourage this, and denounce blind following. Innumerable
times does the Quran say: "they ask you about this, tell them
so-and-so is the answer". About the Prophet's wife Aishah it is
recorded that she would continue to question him about some point
until she was satisfied with the answer. The Quran also says: "They
cannot bring you (O Prophet) a question, but We have brought you the
truth and the best explanation" (25:33). How can such a book and
religion be said to discourage, or oppose, questioning?

Zahid Aziz.
Newsgroups: soc.culture.pakistan
From: kekare@mecad.uta.edu (Sagar A. Kekare)
Subject: Gazal
Reply-To: kekare@mecad.uta.edu (Sagar A. Kekare)
Organization: University of Texas at Arlington
Date: Wed, 30 Sep 1992 03:40:16 GMT


Dear friends,

I do not know where I got this khubsoorat gazal but nevertheless I am posting  
it on the circuits for all gazal lovers :

  Tarq-e-mohabbat apani khataa ho aisaa bhi ho sakataa hai
  Woh ab bhi paaband-e-wafaa ho aisa bhi ho saktaa hai

  Darwaaze par aahat sun kar uski taraf kyoN dhyaan gayaa
  AAne waali sirf hawaa ho aisaa bhi ho saktaa hai

  Haal-e-pareshaaN sunkar meraa aaNkh meiN uske aaNso hai
  Maine us se zooth kahaa ho aisaa bhi ho saktaa hai

  Arz-e-talab par uski chup se zaahir hai inkaar magar
  Shaayad woh kuch soch rahaa ho aisaa bhi ho saktaa hai

  Had-e-nazar tak sirf dhuaaN thaa barq pe kyoN ilzaam rakhe
  Aatish-e-gul se baagh jalaa ho aisaa bhi ho saktaa hai

  Khun-e-tamannaa karanaa uskaa shevaa hai 'manzoor' magar
  Haath pe uske rang-e-henna ho aisaa bhi ho saktaa hai

Can anyone tell me who Manzoor is & where can I find more of his compositions ?
From: azhar@duke.cs.duke.edu (D. Salman [Quintessential] Azhar)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.pakistan
Subject: Marketing by Local Heroes (was: Asian models?)
Keywords: modelling agencies and advertising
Date: 4 Oct 92 17:01:58 GMT
Organization: Duke University Computer Science Dept.; Durham, N.C.


In article <1992Oct2.162738.10901@crc.ac.uk> fkhurshi@crc.ac.uk (Ms F. Khurshid) writes:
>There has been a lot of publicity in the press here over the lack of
>interest from Asian girls to enter the modelling business.....
>Well WE KNOW there are a lot of beautiful, exquisite asian women out there
>Haven't they been stereotyped in the kind of modelling they do?  I've
>never seen a 'strong' image come across by the advertisers of any
>Asians (male or female) 
>
>How does it compare to how they are portrayed in advertising in Asian countries
>themselves?
>Farha Khurshid                               email: fkhurshi@uk.ac.mrc-crc

   Advertising is a bad word for marketing, since it is only part
of a merketing strategy. Whereas most products solicit foreign models,
Pepsi (Pakistan) is changing the way things are by identifying Pepsi
with Imran, Wasim, and Waqar in one commercial, and Salman and co.
(Vital Signs not dsqa -- they can't afford me yet :-)) in another.

   Pepsi did not allow Pepsi affiliates to use local coomercials
(in their strategy to potray a global image), but Pepsi (Pakistan)
broke the rules. When Vice President Marekting of Pepsi (Int'l)
got a wind of it, President of Pepsi (Pakistan) flashed the fact that
Pepsi's market share had nearly doubled, and got special permission to
identify the product with local heroes.

   In Pakistan, Coca Cola (Pakistan) objected to Commerce Dept
that the parting words of the commercial using Vital Signs' song "Dill
Dill Pakistan" (the words were ... Pakistan, Pakistan, Pepsi)
identified a product with the country (which is against Pakistan law),
so Pepsi took out the last few words.

           Salman [your local scholar] Azhar


-- 
 I must, with emotional fire, burn or illume myself
 I must, with the heat of passion, melt or sublime myself
 I must, in flood of tears, drown or cleanse myself
 I must! I must! I must! For my people and myself -- D. Salman [Q] Azhar
From: ixs0672@hertz.njit.edu (Irfan Ahmed)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.pakistan
Subject: Re:> Omar Sharif--------
Date: 29 Sep 92 22:44:56 GMT
Organization: New Jersey Institute of Technology, Newark, N.J.
Originator: ixs0672@hertz.njit.edu

From njitgw.njit.edu!rutgers!sun-barr!olivea!uunet!ftpbox!mothost!schbbs!laser.dev.cdx.mot.com!yasin Tue Sep 29 18:31:54 EDT 1992
Article: 28242 of soc.culture.pakistan