HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: boggs@a.cs.okstate.edu (BOGGS RICHARD GRAN)
Subject: Re: The reason for Rage
Organization: Oklahoma State University, Computer Science, Stillwater
Date: Wed, 22 Jul 92 04:44:10 GMT

In article <1992Jul22.035836.29793@leland.Stanford.EDU> farthing@leland.Stanford.EDU (ljf) writes:
>Goehring wrote homosexuality, not homosexuals.  He was referring (I
>believe) to the idea that your own homophobia may prevent you from

There's that word again: homophobia.  I think it's the wrong word to use in most
situations.  You see, IMHO most people aren't _afraid_ of homosexuals (unless,
of course, they were going to rape you), they just don't _like_ them.  Perhaps
DC's not a homophobe, but merely anti-homosexual (coin a term if you can; I 
can't remember my Latin bases).

>His post also dealt with homophobia, something I think you show by

Ew!  There it is again...

>referring to homosexuals' "rantings."  Think of it this way: If this
>discussion were about white police officers not talking the rape
>reports of black women seriously and Goehring blamed it on racism,
>then he made a similar comment to you about the problems of black
>women.  Would you then write: "No, I deal with them just fine.  I
>ignore their rantings..."?

Can't answer for DC, but I probably would.  Racism is a different issue, but I 
think minority groups in general do a lot of "ranting".  Some, IMHO, justified,
most not.

>Life may be too short to get involved with everyone's plight, but you
>can at least respect when lesbigay people point out discrimination and
>mistreatment and not call it "ranting."

Wrong forum for discussion of homosexuality views, but mine is not a favorable
one (from the homosexuals' points of view).

So many problems in this world...

-- 
Grant Boggs
boggs@a.cs.okstate.edu
Oklahoma State University
Stillwater, Oklahoma
From: kimmyd@bnr.ca (Kimmy Posey P920)
Newsgroups: talk.rape
Subject: To Prof. P. on degrees of rape ...
Date: 24 Jul 92 21:32:14 GMT
Organization: Bell-Northern Research, BNR-RTP

Yes I am glad to know that these animals are behind bars.  However I am truly
saddened that their corpses are not fertilizing some unfortunate pig farm in
Oklahoma or some place like that.  With regard to the plea bargain thing making
the situation easier for the victim and more likely that the perp. will serve
time, you have hit on one of the biggest problems.  Our legal system makes the
victim the criminal and the criminal the victim!  Instead of plea bargaining
with rape-scum we should make it more difficult for them to get off.  At the
same time we should make it non-traumatic for the victim to contribute whatever
evidence is needed.  If that were the case I think many more women would come
forward and help put these viruses in jail.  I'm not saying I know how you
would go about this.  Never thought about the implementation details.  Maybe
you or someone else has a suggestion.

I'm sorry but I disagree that someone who has sex with a women too drunk to say
no is not as bad as any other rapist.  I have refused to have sex with women
who were very drunk and saying "YES!" in the most enthusiastic way possible.
Not because they were ugly, or because I didn't want to in a big way.  On the
contrary I once had to literally fight off a MEGA BEAUTY in just such a 
circumstance.  And I assure you that I WANTED to have sex with her BIG TIME!
However, I knew down deep that it was wrong and that she would regret it in
the morning.  Therefore I disengaged her tongue from my tonsils, put her in
her own bed and returned to my hotel room alone.  Even though we were in a
foreign country where it is VERY unlikely that she could have gotten any help
from the authorities if she had reported being raped while sober, much less
stone drunk.  We were in Tokyo at the time.  I didn't relate this because I
think I am Mr. Righteous but to illustrate my point that having sex with a
women (man) who says no or is not capable of making a rational decision one
way or the other is rape.  Period.  You may not agree.  That's cool.  It's
a free country.  Sometimes I think too free.

KimmyD

P.S.:  Are there any people out there who feel like I do about this or are my
       views totally pyscho ?  If there are people that agree then by all
       mean jump in any time.  I could use a breather!
Newsgroups: talk.rape
From: tenney@med.unc.edu (Charles R. Tenney)
Subject: Not QUITE a "safe place," just need a little respect
Originator: tenney@addor
Organization: UNC-CH School of Medicine
Date: Sun, 26 Jul 1992 00:35:11 GMT

I meant to send this as a followup, but the newsreader deleted the
previous posts...

KimmyD had mentioned that he thought of talk.rape as a safe place for
people to get support, etc.  It's not quite that.  It's a place for
discussion.  As such, it is to be expected that people get emotional.
Susan's point that anything graphic should have some warning in the
subject line or somewhere is a good one that people ought to pay
atttention to.

Anyway, there is a newsgroup that was specifically designed to be a safe
place to get support.  That's alt.sexual.abuse.recovery.  That's the place
where it's REALLY expected that people be careful about what they say,
etc.  For t.r to go that way would be redundant.  Anyone who is interested
in a safe environment for discussion should check out asar.  They have an
anonymous posting service so folks don't even have to identify themselves,
and a lot of the posters would be unable to post without it.  If your node
doesn't have it, talk to your sysadmin (it's a good idea to distribute
that group further, anyway).  If you can't, you can always connect
(through telnet, etc.) to UNC's bulletin board system, the internet
address is bbs.oit.unc.edu or in numerical form, 152.2.22.80

I couldn't help being amused by KimmyD apologizing to DC for ranting.
Sort of like the pot apoligizing to the kettle for being black.  I'm glad
to see both of them around, but then my mind has an internal "n" key, I
don't let the ranting get to me.




-- 
--
Charles R. Tenney	tenney@med.unc.edu   | What would the UNC school of
					     | Medicine want with my opinions?
	"My karma ran over my dogma."	     | What would I want with theirs?
From: dcrosgr@uoft02.utoledo.edu
Newsgroups: talk.rape
Subject: Re: Rape in any form ...
Date: 24 Jul 92 15:33:52 EST
Organization: University of Toledo, Computer Services

In article <1992Jul24.143556.13738@leland.Stanford.EDU>, farthing@leland.Stanford.EDU (ljf) writes:
> In article <1992Jul24.013123.8886@uoft02.utoledo.edu> dcrosgr@uoft02.utoledo.edu writes:
>>In article <1992Jul23.175429.11674@brtph560.bnr.ca>, kimmyd@bnr.ca (Kimmy Posey P920) writes:
>>I don't know if they should be executed. We were recently discussing one male
>>who spent six years in jail before his accuser came forward and admitted she
>>made up the entire story to make her boyfriend jealous.
>>
>>Should he, the convicted man, have been executed?
> 
> This is more an argument against capital punishment than an argument
> against executing rapists.

How can you execute rapists if there are strong arguments against capital
punishment?

DC
From: kimmyd@bnr.ca (Kimmy Posey P920)
Subject: To amy young: Thank your lucky star ...
Organization: Bell-Northern Research, BNR-RTP 
Date: Fri, 24 Jul 1992 22:44:22 GMT

... that God created lithium bicarbonate.  And that I was taught to respect
women regardless of their behavior or their left-handed bleeding-heart-liberal,
there-there-poor-baby-you're-just-misunderstood-and-terribly-terribly-confused
attitudes.  Otherwise I might say something very ugly.  You are so, so wrong
when you say I want to sweep the problem of rape under the carpet.  WRONG LADY!
I WANT TO NUKE IT OFF THE FACE OF THE FREAKIN' PLANET!  When I posted here it
was because I felt that this group was intended as a place to discuss rape as
it applys to the victims.  It seemed to me that there was to much support for
the rapist instead.  You certainly haven't changed that opinion.  Rapist don't
deserve support.  Other than someone to hold the chair they are standing in
while the noose is slipped around their neck!  And you're right I don't think
these posts out.  Rape does not invoke a rational response from me.  It invokes
a savage emotional one.  Like if I were walking down the street and saw some
degenerate forcing himself on you I wouldn't think "Oh that poor misguided man,
Look how he is coping with our faulty society by raping that woman".  NO WAY!
I'd rip his head off and ask questions later.  I don't know if you have ever
been raped.  I hope not.  I doubt that you have judging from your attitude.
I feel sure that if some 250 pound whacko drank a couple of gallons of beer and
then broke into your house forced himself on you then you might think a little
differently.  I hope it never happens.  But just a word of advice.  Be very
careful about who you call an ignorant boob.  You never know who might be on
the other end of the network.  It might be some 6'2'' tall, 225 lb. manic-
depressive with less than 5% body fat and nothin' left to lose.

KimmyD
From: scg@mentor.cc.purdue.edu (Scott Goehring)
Newsgroups: talk.rape
Subject: Re: Kristen's Question (off the track a bit)
Date: 21 Jul 92 15:37:36 GMT
	<BrJEwI.I7r@usenet.ucs.indiana.edu>
	<SCG.92Jul20184952@mentor.cc.purdue.edu>
	<Brqu97.Awy@usenet.ucs.indiana.edu>
Reply-To: scg@mentor.cc.purdue.edu
Organization: Society for the Prevention of National Mudding Associations

seiffe@silver.ucs.indiana.edu (Erica Seiffert) writes:

>Excuse me, but I think you have missed the point of my post. I am NOT
>saying that women who fantasize about being raped want to be raped. I
>certainly don't.

I was commenting on the concept, not attempting to imply that you
were espousing it.  I am quite capable of reading your article,
thankyouverymuch.

>I'm saying that there are people out there that do believe that's
>what a woman wants.

I know.  IMHO, it stems from the same sort of Freudian nonsense that
leads people to believe that most reports of childhood sexual abuse
are actually fantasies about having sex with daddy.

>Of course there is no justification for rape (perhaps that was a poor
>choice of wording on my part). Perhaps I should phase my sentiment
>this way, "I hate to see these findings used to validate a rape
>myth."

Statistics are well known to be usable to justify whatever you want.
That's why statistics, by themselves, are both meaningless and
useless.
--
"No, I don't know that atheists should be considered as citizens, nor should
they be considered patriots.  This is one nation under God."
	-- President George Bush, Chicago, August 27, 1988
From: dcrosgr@uoft02.utoledo.edu
Newsgroups: talk.rape
Subject: Re: To amy young: Thank your lucky star ...
Date: 26 Jul 92 22:24:59 GMT
Organization: University of Toledo, Computer Services

In article <1992Jul26.191817.15410@leland.Stanford.EDU>, farthing@leland.Stanford.EDU (ljf) writes:
> In article <1992Jul25.131122.8928@uoft02.utoledo.edu> dcrosgr@uoft02.utoledo.edu writes:
>>In article <1992Jul24.224422.1503@brtph560.bnr.ca>, kimmyd@bnr.ca (Kimmy Posey P920) writes:
>>(deleted stuff)
>>As I said, IMHO this person is beyond help.
>>
>>I really suggest correspondence with him be severly curtailed, as this sounds
>>very much like a threat/cry for help. 
> 
> In all honesty, DC, I find most of your posts similarly repugnant.  In
> fact, I wonder why you're in talk.rape (maybe a cry for help?).
> However, I don't write a post suggesting that people avoid
> corresponding with you.  I stick people like you in my killfile, as I'm
> doing with you today.

No, I was drug here by one of the regulars who wanted to recruit help for his
attack on my film list.

DC
From: dcrosgr@uoft02.utoledo.edu
Newsgroups: talk.rape
Subject: Kathi's lies continue...
Date: 24 Jul 92 00:41:52 EST
Organization: University of Toledo, Computer Services

In article <1992Jul23.154725.206051@cs.cmu.edu>, kji+@SPEECH1.CS.CMU.EDU (Kathi Iannamico) writes:
> Well, try as I might, I could not get my hands on the post which spoke
> of "violating" bodies.  It makes no difference to me and to the others
> who have written to me saying they remembered it.  It was there.  Denying
> it was there does not change the reality of its being there.
> 
> So before you plan the parade route, note that I remember, a few other
> people remember, and we all know you remember, regardless of much you
> protest.

Kathi, I expected something a little less transparent from you. Something at
least semi-believable.

FOr about a month I have been demanding you show me one post where I talked of
fantasizing about raping you. To produce a post where I talked of the joy I got
from fanatasizing about violating your body, as you have been claiming I did.

One week ago, you put out a request for this mythical post.

Now, when you don't have it, you are saying that it did exist, and we should
all belive you.

Right.

When the flames between you and are were at their highest, I was demanding you
produce it or admit you were lying. This was only two weeks after you and I
started to debate. You didn't produce the post. 

Finally, after the beggings of our debate are off of your system, you come
forth with a frantic cry for someone to send you the post, as it has been
dleted off of your system.

Gee Kath, why didn't you produce it the first time I asked for it. The first
time I called you a liar?

Because it does not, nor has it ever, existed. It is your 'twisted' mind which
remembers it. The ONLY post I have made which mentioned you, my fantasies, and
rape, stated specifically that I did not fantasize about raping you. Your mind 
has 'twisted' (whoops, sorry, wrong case) 'TWISTED' what was said to suit your
own paranoia.

I am still calling you a liar. And I am disgusted at such a feeble attempt to
try and exonorate yourself. You have had a month to dig up the post. I first
demanded it when it would have been on your system (if it had existed). Had
I ever made such a post, you would have produced it then.

DC
From: dcrosgr@uoft02.utoledo.edu
Newsgroups: talk.rape
Subject: Re: Question for Scott
Date: 23 Jul 92 12:29:09 EST
Organization: University of Toledo, Computer Services

In article <1992Jul23.072136.2998@leland.Stanford.EDU>, farthing@leland.Stanford.EDU (ljf) writes:

> 
>>Unless, you can come up with an alternative explination as to why men are
>>obligated to report it, when a woman is expected to make her decision based
>>solely on her own needs and beliefs, and no one would ever try to push her one
>>way or the other.
>>
>>Well, why the difference?
> 
> I can't speak for Goehring, but here's my objection.  You said that
> you would probably report a rape by a woman, but not by a man.  It
> didn't seem to occur to you that you'd probably be laughed out of the
> police station.  It didn't seem to occur to you that a lot of people
> would assume you hadn't been raped or that you were such a wimp that a
> woman could rape you.  But you jumped to all sorts of conclusions
> about being raped by a male.  That to me implies a double standard.
> 

As a matter of fact, Paul Sorvenio starred in a movie years ago where he had
been raped, and was laughed out of the police station. No one believed him.
And, yes, I am aware that women who are raped are considered wimps. However,
I do not worry about that because no one I know of would ever dream of calling
me that. 

As for the double standard, welcome to the real world. Is this your first time
in it? 

DC

Welcome to the real world.
From: dcrosgr@uoft02.utoledo.edu
Newsgroups: talk.rape
Subject: Re: DanZ on what planet he's from ...
Date: 25 Jul 92 13:04:13 EST
Organization: University of Toledo, Computer Services

In article <1992Jul24.205358.203@brtph560.bnr.ca>, kimmyd@bnr.ca (Kimmy Posey P920) writes:
> What on God's green earth are you talkin' about?  Who said I don't believe
> we should "try to move towards justice" ?  I certainly didn't and if you so
> infer from my post then I must have really fouled up.  My position is that if
> public execution would deter a large number of rapes (which I think it would),
> then it is a practice we should adopt.  Even if a vanishingly small number of
> the persons so punished are actually innocent.  Innocent lives have been
> sacrificed to save others innocent or otherwise since time immemorial.  And
> why do you think that I believe we shouldn't do everything possible to ensure
> that only the guilty are punished ?  Furthermore I did not say or even imply
> that I just wanted to put "_someone_ in jail" for every rape.  That would be
> insane.  I believe that anyone found guilty of rape by a jury of his/her peers
> should be executed.  You know like after due process and all that.  If you
> arrived at these conclusions after thoroughly reading my post then you should
> either come back from Dimension X where everything is bass-ackwards or see the
> folks at Columbia about enrolling in Reading Comprehension .101.
> 
> KimmyD

I'm no expert, but this person is probably beyond help. He has a problem
which if affecting his life (attack's on wife), and is willing to sacrifice
anyone and everyone in an act he just doesn't see is little more than attempted
vengence.

DC

Newsgroups: talk.rape
From: farthing@leland.Stanford.EDU (ljf)
Subject: Re: The reason for Rage
Organization: DSG, Stanford University, CA 94305, USA
Date: Thu, 23 Jul 92 06:26:17 GMT

In article <1992Jul23.001744.8868@uoft02.utoledo.edu> dcrosgr@uoft02.utoledo.edu writes:
>Somebody email him the name of the gay forum. Please. I am tired of explaining
>to people the same thing over and over again. 

Look, DC, I fight anti-queer bullshit like yours where I see it.  If
you came on here making racist comments about African Americans, I'd
bitch at you about that.  And I won't let you weasel out of it by
claiming this isn't the place for it.

Newsgroups: talk.rape
From: dcrosgr@uoft02.utoledo.edu
Newsgroups: talk.rape
Subject: Re: The reason for Rage
Date: 23 Jul 92 00:25:19 EST
Organization: University of Toledo, Computer Services

In article <1992Jul23.020313.24943@ncar.ucar.edu>, sheehan@pagosa.scd.ucar.edu (Tim Sheehan) writes:
> 
>  > If it's the latter, maybe you should be
>  > concerned about lesbigay rights.
>  > 
> 
> Many women do not report rape because of the further degredation they would suffer
> from the police, society, friends, coworkers, bosses, etc. The degradation a 
> male-male rape victim would suffer along those lines would probably be worse
> because most members of society who would view a female rape victim as a slut
> would likely view a male-male rape victim as a faggot-slut (what could be worse?).
> 
> Personally, such ignorant attitudes apall(sp?) me. However, given that they are
> so widespread, I have my doubts as to whether I would report it if I were raped
> by another male. The experience would be hard enough without much of society to
> help with the degradation.

Right. But there are some people on this board who believe a man should report
this even if a woman has the option not to. They ignored a prior post which
questioned them on this dichotomy, but perhaps they will answer my most recent
one.

DC
From: dcrosgr@uoft02.utoledo.edu
Newsgroups: talk.rape
Subject: Re: DC: You just can't ...
Date: 29 Jul 92 00:47:01 EST
Organization: University of Toledo, Computer Services

In article <1992Jul28.215130.21133@news.columbia.edu>, dan@cubmol.bio.columbia.edu (Daniel Zabetakis) writes:

> 
>>
>>8) I'll only tell you this one time.  Leave my wife out of your post.  I can
>>   assure you that I am serious on this point.  I am deadly serious.  You are
> 
>    I think you should decide what you can talk about, and what you can't,
> before you post. It's not possible to argue with you if we have to worry
> about stepping on landmines.
>    You are absolutely right, _you_ brought you wife into the argument. In
> fact she was the sole reason for you articles. As far as I am concerned,
> you have only two choices, retract statment 8, or 'u' this group, and
> don't come back.
> 
> DanZ
> 

Time out Dan. First of all, thanks for the support. I wish more people felt
comfortible to post messages to the board that challenge the status quo.

Next, Kimmy seems to think I was attacking his wife in some way. I think he may
be over-reacting, which is not totally non-understandable. What I think he
should do, is sit back and count to ten and make SURE that an attack is being
launched before he reacts to it.

However, he should be aware that anything thrown into this arena, no matter how
personal, is fair game for questioning. Synth drills me on my rape fantasies
involving my ex-almost. He's polite enough to tell me that I don't have to
answer, but even that is not needed. If I bring a personal revelation out into
the public eye, it is private no more.

Speaking of which:

Synth,

Another note for your question. Maybe the reason my fantasies involving her are
rape in nature come from a compromise between two desires I have:

1. The desire to have really passionate unbridled sex with her again. (She had
style.)

2. The desire to make sure I NEVER do anything which gives her any shred of
pleasure.

Make sense?

DC
From: scg@mentor.cc.purdue.edu (Scott Goehring)
Newsgroups: talk.rape
Subject: Re: Question for Scott
Date: 25 Jul 92 00:29:15 GMT
	<1992Jul23.204414.25451@leland.Stanford.EDU>
	<1992Jul24.013603.8887@uoft02.utoledo.edu>
	<1992Jul24.144105.14005@leland.Stanford.EDU>
	<1992Jul24.153724.8903@uoft02.utoledo.edu>
Reply-To: scg@mentor.cc.purdue.edu
Organization: Society for the Prevention of National Mudding Associations

dcrosgr@uoft02.utoledo.edu writes:

>I am glad that you agree with me that there are a plethora of reasons
>to not report a rape.

Unfortunately, there are.  What bothers me is that you don't seem to
consider this to be a problem.
--
"My TA wasn't the sharpest knife in the drawer--overall, I'd say she's a few
 fries short of a Happy Meal."
	-- Comment on a course evaluation form, Brown University
From: dcrosgr@uoft02.utoledo.edu
Newsgroups: talk.rape
Subject: Re: Rape in any form ...
Date: 23 Jul 92 12:16:29 EST
Organization: University of Toledo, Computer Services

In article <1992Jul23.054658.3854@brtph560.bnr.ca>, kimmyd@bnr.ca (Kimmy Posey P920) writes:
> I just subscribed to this group and after reading only a few of the b-zillion
> messages here I found myself compelled to make a couple of statments:
> 
>   1) Anyone who commits a rape deserves death.  Period.
>   2) Anyone who has rape fantasies is sick and should seek professional help.

The medical experts say your opinion is not correct.

>   3) Anyone who gets his / her cookies watching rape scenes on film refer to
>      item (2) above.

See reply one above.

>   4) Anyone who condones rape should refer to item (1) above.

I have not seen anyone on here condone rape.

> 
> Rape is the most hideous crime that can be perpetrated on another human being.
> It is a form of twisted, savage, deviant, mal-adjusted behavior.  As a guy
> who's reason for living was brutally raped by 3 different animals in her
> family on a daily basis from age 6 - 13, I am appalled by some of the things
> I have read here.  I can only hope that some of you will not one day have the
> person you love more than your own life tell you that every act of love that
> you have shown her (or him) for the last 13 years sickened her and she never
> wants you to touch her again.  All because some piece of non-human garbage
> forced it's perverted desires on her.

Remind me of my ex-fiance. Except her story started at four.

DC