HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.deaf-l
Date:         Mon, 4 Jan 1993 15:28:47 GMT
From:         Bosco Keown <keown@VNET.IBM.COM>
Subject:      clarify on dupree

Ref:  Adam's note of Mon, 4 Jan 1993 10:02:23 EST

Happy New Year, all.

None of us is really qualified to speculate on this, not having
access to the true facts.

However, is the issue here really a communication breakdown? If this
guy had been hearing and able to speak, he still would not have
been able to tell the police officers that he couldn't breathe. I don't
think it's possible to talk while being throttled -- I am questioning the
suggestion that the guy's death is a result of the police officers being
unable to understand sign language.

If the police officers *were* negligent in any way, it is because
they used excessive force and not because they were unable to communicate
in sign language.

Bosco.

Bosco Keown,
CICS/6000 Development,         | VNET     : KEOWN at WINVMC
IBM UK Laboratories, Ltd.,     | IBMIPNET : keown@float.hursley.ibm.com
Hursley Park,                  | Internet : keown@vnet.ibm.com
Winchester, England.           | BITNET   : KEOWN at VNET
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Newsgroups: bit.listserv.deaf-l
Date:         Mon, 4 Jan 1993 16:25:04 -0600
From:         /PN=JUDY.TINGLEY/O=DEAFTEK/ADMD=TELEMAIL/C=US/@SPRINT.COM
Subject:      RE: Holiday Greetings

 <"CGJD-5582-1700/36"*/PN=JUDY.TINGLEY/O=DEAFTEK/ADMD=TELEMAIL/C=US/@sprint.com>

ROY, DUE TO TRAVELS I AM JUST NOW CATCHING UP ON DEAF-L POSTINGS AND AM
 RESPONDING TO YOUR CHRISTMAS GREETINGS BY USING A TDD WITH A
SCII.  HOPE THIS IS LEGIBLE WITH LINE BREAKS IN THEIR PROPER PLACES!  I AM SURE
 ALL READERS OF DEAF-L JOIN ME IN THANKING YOU FOR BR
INGING US ALL TOGETHER.  IT IS QUITE AN EXPERIENCE TO SEE THE DIVERSITY OF
 VIEWS, DIVERSITY OF COUNTRIES REPRESENTED, AND DIVERSITY
OF HOW EACH OF US CAME TO THE SUBJECT OF DEAFNESS, WHETHER BY OCCUPATION,
 FAMILY, OR SPECIAL INTEREST (OR ALL 3!)- THANKS ROY! AND H
APPY HOLIDAYS TO YOU, TOO.
JUDY TINGLEY
USA/UK
From: CBRAN00@UKCC.UKY.EDU (Cathy Brandt)
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.deaf-l
Subject: Teacher's story
Date: 6 Jan 93 00:53:02 GMT
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU

Hello all and Happy New Year!

Well, I've a story for you ALREADY and we have only been back to school two
days.

The new girl arrived yesterday to an excited class.  They were so fun - she
truly felt welcome.  She had an outstanding day - participated immediately and
fit in well with the kids.  This morning she brought me a note that said, "I
hope you have good day at school.  I love you."  Well - that was a wonderful
way to begin my day.

Now Part II  The kids are also reading and studying biographies and autobio-
graphies as we study Famous Communicators and Famous Deaf People.  They have
begun working on writing their autobiography.  A pre-writing activity was to
draw pictures to answer questions things like - A skill I would most like to
learn or If I could be anyone else I would be or My most prized possession or
My proudest moment.  So, the new girl, brings me her homework this a.m. and in
the place for her proudest moment was a picture of this school and her walking
in the door!!!  Yeah, tears filled my eyes.  I asked her about it to make sure
I didn't misunderstand.  But, I was right.  She was most proud of coming to
school here.

Well, I'm glad she's glad she is here - we'll see how she feels once I work her
to death :)  She is VERY bright and I am excited about challenging her.  I
think that added to her problem in the other school - not only was she isolated
 with no deaf peers - she was bored to death!  So look out little girl!  You
are in for the time of your life!!

Also - while I'm telling stories - Today is George Washington Carver Memorial
Day.  (So noted on our trivia calendar)  We studied him last February (with my
student teacher doing the teaching).  So, I asked the kids what they could
remember.  I was shocked at how much they remembered about him - after a year!

And one last note - Skills my kids would most like to learn -  Wellllll, one
said driving a boat and jet ski, one said putting hard puzzles together, one
said signing (new girl - though she knows lots of sign) and two said talking.
Interesting group!

Nuff for now!  Oh, I just picked up a book at the library last night called
Voyage To The Island.  Anyone read it yet?  A deaf Finnish woman goes with her
husband to St. Lucia and there she teaches many of the kids sign and then how
to read, write and lots of other things.  Hmmmmm, wonder how it ends?  Wonder
if there's a job there now for me -  ohhhh, I'd love to be on an island in the
Carribean.      Guess I'll just keep dreaming!  :)

Cathy - teacher of children who returned with brains in full gear ready to
tackle the world - kinda makes the teacher feel the same way also!
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Newsgroups: bit.listserv.deaf-l
Date:         Wed, 6 Jan 1993 14:24:17 EST
From:         "Esther A. Paris" <esther@DEMAND.ED.RAY.COM>
Subject:      _Angels and Outcasts: An Anthology of Deaf Characters in
              Literature_

Has anyone out there read _Angels and Outcasts_?  Or in the middle of
reading it?  Or has read it and would like an excuse to read it again?

I'm taking a literature course and this is the main text for the first
portion of the course.  I'd love an off-list discussion partner, should
I be so lucky as to find one.

Esther Paris at Raytheon EDL in Marlborough, MA
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Newsgroups: bit.listserv.deaf-l
Date:         Mon, 11 Jan 1993 14:09:33 GMT
From:         Bosco Keown <keown@VNET.IBM.COM>
Subject:      FYI

The abstract below was sent to me internally. I thought it
might be of interest to some DEAF-L readers. Is anyone aware
of any developments on this issue since the article was published?

 Dealing with the Invisible Disability
       Quinn, Liam
       Telemarketing Magazine 93-01325 V11 N5 Nov 1992 P24-26
       Since the development of the teletypewriter (TTY), much has
 happened to make telecommunications more accessible to the estimated
 28 million people who are deaf or hard of hearing.  The Americans
 with Disabilities Act (ADA) mandates that a national relay network
 consisting of communications assistants (CA), who relay information
 between TTY users and the users of standard telephones, be
 established by 1995.  One barrier encountered by TTY users involves
 automated telephone services.  The relay network cannot provide the
 TTY caller adequate access to these systems.  For example, in areas
 such as banking and healthcare, the presence of a third party - the
 CA - intrudes on the TTY user's privacy.  Although the final ADA
 regulations leave open the issue of whether compliance will require
 that public and private sectors give TTY users access to automated
 telephone services, the language of the Act will provide the basis
 for legal action.

Bosco.


Bosco Keown,
CICS/6000 Development,         | VNET     : KEOWN at WINVMC
IBM UK Laboratories, Ltd.,     | IBMIPNET : keown@float.hursley.ibm.com
Hursley Park,                  | Internet : keown@vnet.ibm.com
Winchester, England.           | BITNET   : KEOWN at VNET
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Newsgroups: bit.listserv.deaf-l
Date:         Tue, 12 Jan 1993 16:44:32 -0500
From:         Cynthia Clark <cclark@CNRI.RESTON.VA.US>
Subject:      RE: mailid request for cathy the teacher

Jackie Guarente-Rider,

Cathy's Internet e-mail should be cbran@ukcc.uky.edu

Please let me know if it works or not.

Good luck,

Cynthia Clark
cclark@cnri.reston.va.us
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Newsgroups: bit.listserv.deaf-l
Date:         Mon, 4 Jan 1993 10:02:23 EST
From:         askwersk@ATHENA.MIT.EDU
Subject:      Re: clarify on dupree
              24 Dec 92 12:14:14 +0000. <9212241308.AA05508@Athena.MIT.EDU>

From the recent descriptions of the Carl-incident, I can only say
that the police officers were only doing what they have been told to do.
If what has been said is true, that Carl was signing "cant breathe",
and the security could not pick this up, I think the hiring process for
security people should be looked into. I can understant why Carl was struggling;
if you could not breathe you would struggle too. But I can also understand why
the police had to use force, since Carl was using it to try to breathe. My guess
was that it was a 'vicious cycle' and finally Carl suffocated.

Adam

PS:I didnt see the show.
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Newsgroups: bit.listserv.deaf-l
Date:         Fri, 8 Jan 1993 00:56:47 +0200
From:         Omer Zak <XLACHA1@WEIZMANN.WEIZMANN.AC.IL>
Subject:      Re: driver's licence restrictions

I got my driver's license as soon as possible (which was after age 18
Israel, at the time, it was the minimum age to start studying to drive
or to get a license.  Nowadays the minimum age is 17).
My driver's license restrictions are:
1. Wear glasses or contact lenses (very reasonable as I am also 'sight
   impaired' in that I am nearsighted).
   This has no relationship to my deafness.
2. Have panoramic mirror in car.
3. Have outside mirror.
Nothing was mentioned about an hearing aid (which is useless for me anyway
as I get just meaningless, annoying noise from it if I ever wear one).

I was in USA 8 years ago, and learned that in Oregon, deaf drivers are
restricted to cars with outside mirrors (which every car has anyway).

About at that time, Japanese hearing impaired were being denied driving
licenses unless they can prove they can hear (by any means) the siren
of ambulances which rush and should have the way evacuated for them.
I guess you are being required to wear an hearing aid so that you
can hear the sirens of ambulances and other emergency vehicles.
                                                             --- Omer
From: cbar73@vaxa.strath.ac.uk
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.deaf-l
Subject: test
Date: 8 Jan 93 16:20:10 GMT
Organization: Strathclyde University VAX Cluster

Testing one two three
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X-Delivery-Notice:  SMTP MAIL FROM does not correspond to sender.
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.deaf-l
Date:         Tue, 12 Jan 1993 15:26:56 -0500
From:         Dawn Skwersky <skwersky@ACS.BU.EDU>
Subject: Re: driver's licence restrictions

In response to restrictions on drivers licenses becuz of deafness..

I used to have one restriction:  I must have an outside rearview
mirror.

Since I got my license renewed.. I have no restrictions at all..
I am profoundly deaf...I guess I just didn't say anything to
the person taking the photo for my license???

Maybe I got away with something...

By the way... do hearing acquaintances ever say when learning you drive,
"You drive???!! But how?  You are able to drive???"

Dawn
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Newsgroups: bit.listserv.deaf-l
Date:         Thu, 7 Jan 1993 17:30:02 -0600
From:         /PN=JUDY.TINGLEY/O=DEAFTEK/ADMD=TELEMAIL/C=US/@SPRINT.COM
Subject: Re: Deaf businessmen/self-employed

 <"JGJD-5589-6831/36"*/PN=JUDY.TINGLEY/O=DEAFTEK/ADMD=TELEMAIL/C=US/@sprint.com>

I WANT TO TAKE EXCEPTION TO SCOTT RUST'S ASSERTION THAT IN THE U.S. IT IS NOT
 VERY FEASIBLE FOR A DEAF PERSON TO SUCCEED AS AN INDEP
ENDENT BUSINESS PERSON.  THERE ARE AN IMPRESSIVE NUMBER OF PEOPLE WHO DO SUCCEED
 WHO ARE DEAF!  JOHN YEH'S COMPANY IN MARYLAND, INTE
GRATED MICROCOMPUTER SYSTEMS, EMPLOYS DOZENS OF PEOPLE.  JOHN IS A GRADUATE OF
 GALLAUDET IN THE EARLY '70S.  THERE ARE OTHERS WHO OW
N THEIR OWN BUSINESSES, TOO, OR WHO HAVE THEIR OWN TRACTIXX PRACTICES AS
 PHYSICIANS, STOCKBROKERS, INSURANCE AGENTS, DENTISTS, ETC.

THE WORLD FEDERATION FOR THE DEAF HAS AN INFORMAL, INTERNATIONAL NETWORK OF DEAF
 ENTREPRENEURS.  INFORMATION CAN BE OBTAINED FROM MR
JUDITH A. TINGLEY, PRESIDENT
TELETEC INTERNATIONAL LTD.
GREAT BRITAIN
CLASS OF 1965
GALLAUDET UNIVERSITY
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Newsgroups: bit.listserv.deaf-l
Date:         Thu, 7 Jan 1993 08:26:59 EST
From:         "Esther A. Paris" <esther@DEMAND.ED.RAY.COM>
Subject:      professor from Gallaudet now at Northeastern

Hey, any of you Gallaudet folks know a Bryan Lloyd?
(Oh, I hope I've spelled that properly.  I left my notebook
at home.)  He's teaching one of the classes I'm taking at
Northeastern University this quarter.

Esther Paris at Raytheon EDL in Marlborough, MA
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.deaf-l
From: sarust@gallua.gallaudet.edu (Scott A. Rust)
Subject: Re: Deaf businessmen/self-employed
Organization: Gallaudet University English Department
Date: Fri, 8 Jan 1993 15:38:42 GMT

In article <DEAF-L%93010717300236@SIUCVMB.BITNET>,         /PN=JUDY.TINGLEY/O=DEAFTEK/ADMD=TELEMAIL/C=US/@SPRINT.COM writes:
>  <"JGJD-5589-6831/36"*/PN=JUDY.TINGLEY/O=DEAFTEK/ADMD=TELEMAIL/C=US/@sprint.com>
> 
> I WANT TO TAKE EXCEPTION TO SCOTT RUST'S ASSERTION THAT IN THE U.S. IT IS NOT
>  VERY FEASIBLE FOR A DEAF PERSON TO SUCCEED AS AN INDEP
> ENDENT BUSINESS PERSON.  

-- 

	I hope that you would go back and read again what I said in my original
post: I said ---- "Not to take away from your original meaning here, but in the
United States right now it's not very feasible for a _hearing_ [person] to be
able to succeed as an independant business person."

	I meant that it didn't matter at this point if you're hearing or Deaf,
the chances of success when starting your own business are _quite_ slim. 
_______

		Scott A. Rust | "A stupid person can do anything
	 Gallaudet University |           except think."
  sarust@gallua.gallaudet.edu |                   Bob Dobbs, Jr.

		   "Why? Why because I laugh."
                                    - Sherwood Anderson -
From: jk@uctvax.uct.ac.za
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.deaf-l
Subject: Good books
Date: 12 Jan 93 06:36:22 GMT
Organization: University of Cape Town

I've discovered a wonderful book called "Seeing Voices " written by
Oliver Sacks, on the whole area of deafness, and how the brain works in a
deaf person (eg comparing "hearing" our own voices when we think with the 
people who have never "heard" their own voice.) I am only about a quarter 
way through, but find it fascinating. I have even discovered the name of 
a well known South African author who was deaf, so can now read one or two
of his books. Can any of you suggest other good books on the subject ?
Especially any relating to the psychological aspect. I love these type of 
books on all people.

Cheers,

Jean
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Date:         Tue, 12 Jan 1993 14:39:41 -0500
From:         Dawn Skwersky <skwersky@ACS.BU.EDU>
Subject: Re: BIG Question

Did you want us to sign the opening monologue for Star Trek:
The Next Generation on the computer?  Or mail you a video
tape of someone signing that?  I have ideas how to sign it.
But am at a loss to show you.

Dawn Skwersky
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Newsgroups: bit.listserv.deaf-l
Date:         Wed, 6 Jan 1993 08:40:03 -0500
From:         "Esther A. Paris" <esther@RAYSSD.SSD.RAY.COM>
Subject:      _Voyage to the Island_ by R.R.N. (a Finnish name I daren't try to
              spell)

Hi Cathy and everyone else on the list!  Happy New Year to all!

Hey Cathy, funny you should mention _Voyage to the Island_.  Santa
brought me that book for Christmas! Since I was sick as a dog from New
Years Eve through yesterday (well, I'm still sick, but...), I got a
chance to read it.  I enjoyed it... found it very interesting.  I got
kind of tired by the writing style after a while: Subject Verb Object.
Subject Verb Object.  Subject Verb Object.  Dullsville in that
category.  But I wonder if the Finnish language (her native tongue) is
less varied than English, or if it was just a reflection on the
translation itself.  So, that was my only comment in the "what I'd
change if I could have the ideal book" category of things.  Otherwise I
really enjoyed it.  Then again, maybe the medicine I was taking or just
being so sick and tired made me more difficult to please. So what I
mean is maybe you will think this already IS the ideal book.

And when you read about Jukka, think of me.  He and my husband could
probably strongly identify with each other! Not about boats and
shipping, but about wives.  Ha ha.

I liked the photos in the middle... I wish there had been more of
them.  I'd especially liked to have seen pictures of the flowers,
birds, wildlife, and shells on the island.  We New Englanders don't get
to see the exotic things that she wrote about unless we travel to the
tropics ourselves.

I liked Cheryl Heppner's _Seeds of Disquiet_ better, though. In a way
the two books are quite similar -- both autobiographies of
life-changing events by late-deafened women who learn to lip-read first
and sign later.

I wonder why I keep getting drawn to books in this category... is God
trying to tell me something?

Take care everyone and welcome back from the holidays and vacations!
Best regards and best wishes for a happy healthy new year from Esther
Paris at Raytheon Company in Marlborough, MA
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Date:         Thu, 7 Jan 1993 14:29:23 -0400
From:         WALLEYE FISHERMAN OF OHIO <DAB4833@RITVAX.BITNET>
Subject:      Re: driver's licence restrictions

Well, I have been living in Ohio for a good many years now and Ohio law is
fair and reasonable. Hearing aid??? Not for everyone...not benefitable for
wearing in cars, I can agree with it because I experienced it before. Newer
cars are more quieter and better in 1990's. Comments?

David Brown
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Newsgroups: bit.listserv.deaf-l
Date:         Tue, 12 Jan 1993 17:45:47 -0500
From:         Dawn Skwersky <skwersky@ACS.BU.EDU>
Subject: Re: Good books

Jean,

I have a list of books relating to psychological aspects of deafness.
But first I wuld like to say that although Oliver Sacks' book
"Seeing Voices" is easy to read and interesting..... it bothers me...

The book is biases don't you think?  He only writes about signing
I mean.... deaf poeple who were brought up in an ASL environment.  how
they think....he did not talk with any deaf people about their deafness.
From what I hear, he talked with Bob Woodward at Gally to learn about
Deaf people and ASL and deaf culture.

He spends the first long part of the book talking about how the
brain works in a deaf person and concludes that ASL is the answer
to solve the problems in the deaf community....

I think ASL is the most accessible way to communicate, but there
are people who succeed and fail in both methods..I think most of the
time people fail in ASL or other methods is becuz originally they
had nothing... no communication the first three or more years of life.
Or the communication was cut off...

Then he talks about the DPN.. Deaf President Now movement...come on..
there are other incidents in the deaf world where accomplishments
were made by deaf people...This is the one that attracted the most
media attention...

What irks the most...Oliver doesn't sign...doesn't know sign...
how can he write about something he has such as superficial
knowledge about?

He wrote abt the deaf just because after seeing the Deaf President
Now movement on TV he decided he had to write about "this group
of deaf people.."

Will print list of books later.....

(list is at home)

Dawn
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Return-Receipt-To: rap@uclink.berkeley.edu
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.deaf-l
Date:         Tue, 12 Jan 1993 08:12:24 PST
Reply-To:     rap@uclink.berkeley.edu
From:         "Richard A. Peters" <rap@UCLINK.BERKELEY.EDU>
Subject:      RE: Teacher asks for help - again

In Message Tue, 12 Jan 1993 08:52:08 EST,
  "Cathy Brandt" <CBRAN00@UKCC.UKY.EDU> writes:
>This a.m. I talked with a mother to ask permission to have a child stay late
>and paint on our mural.  The mom told me that the son came home last night
>asking all kinds of questions about why he is deaf.  She said he is very
>depressed and is angry.  She talked to him about growing up and getting a job
>and he say - Why?  No one will talk to me there.  She said don't you want to
>have a family?  You will have to have a job to support them.  He said, No.  I
>don't want to.  He said that is for hearing people and he is not hearing.

While I am hearing, this is exactly what we expect to have happen one day
with our deaf child.  What I am reading is that this child has moved from
phase one to phase two of the grieving process for his being different from
the majority and recognizing that he will have a more challenging life as a
result. (Phase one is denial; phase two is anger; ... is acceptance of self.)
I think what you have here is growth in the child.  I am also sensing that
either the mom is still in phase one, or she does not yet understand that
he child will have a grieving process to go through before he can fully
attain acceptance of self as a deaf human being.  Good luck with this one!

..Richard Peters
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Date:         Wed, 6 Jan 1993 17:19:05 +0100
From:         Regnor Jernsletten <regnorj@ISV.UIT.NO>
Subject:      Re: _Voyage to the Island_ by R.R.N. (a Finnish Subject Verb
              Object book?)

Happy New Year?
Finnish isn't any Subject Verb Object Language, but English lacks the
necessary casuses.  I know, since my mother tongue is Sami, a near relative
to Finnish.

So it's better to blame the translator, maybe.
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Newsgroups: bit.listserv.deaf-l
Date:         Sun, 10 Jan 1993 23:12:00 GMT
Reply-To:     ishbeld@cix.compulink.co.uk
From:         Ishbel Donkin <ishbeld@CIX.COMPULINK.CO.UK>
Subject:      Re: Insurance for deaf car drivers

> Subject:      Insurance for deaf car drivers

> (stuff deleted)..... when getting car insurance, I was not required
>  to pay any surcharge to 'compensate' for my deafness.
>
> I am curious to know whether this is the case in general.
>                                                        --- Omer

In the UK it has been said in the past that deaf drivers have fewer
accidents than hearing drivers pro rata, in deaf publications.

I have never had any problems concerning restrictions on my driving
licence during the 40 years since I started driving.  I am qualified
for driving cars, motor-cycles and tractors (!), and actually took my
motor-cycling test before my driving test (this was because petrol
rationing was introduced during that period owing to the Suez Canal
crisis in the mid-1950's).  Also, I have on occasion hired cars and
have not had questions raised about my eligibility for insurance on
these (once in Luxembourg a few years back).
There is no surcharge in this country for insurance for deaf drivers,
who are apparently treated on the same terms as hearing motorists,
and normally have licences for life (that is, up to 70 years old).
After that all drivers have licences renewable every three years
subject to medical certification.  I now have a three-year licence,
but not because of deafness: it is due to diabetes, which has also
jacked my insurance costs upwards.

Incidentally, I should be interested to know if there are any others
on Deaf-L who are also diabetic?

Have a good New Year everybody!

Ishbel.
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