From: fish@helios.ucsc.edu (david fisher)
Newsgroups: rec.travel
Subject: Vietnam and Cambodia   July 4 - July 17
Date: 28 Jul 92 03:13:27 GMT
Organization: UCO/Lick Observatory
NNTP-Posting-Host: helios.ucsc.edu


Although the trip lasted from June 15 to July 21 and included stays in the
Pacific (Truk, Guam, & Hawaii), Hong Kong, Macau, Taipei, and Thailand, I am 
only going to comment on the segments in Vietnam and Cambodia as I figure they
are of the most interest.

I got the visa for Vietnam from :

M.K. Ways (Thailand) Co., Ltd.
57/11 Witthayu (Wireless) Rd.,
Bangkok 10300
Tel. 254-4765, 255-2892, 252-8214
Fax. (662) 254-5583
Telex. 21975 MKWAYS TH

This place is right at the corner of Wireless and Phloen Chit and is just a few
hundred yards from the US embassy which is at 95 Wireless.

I dropped off my passport on Monday June 29th and picked it up Friday
afternoon. The cost was USD 80. If you want it in two days they will do
it for USD 125. If for some reason you think a Vietnamese Visa stamped
in your passport will cause you problems you can have the visa issued on
a separate piece of paper. This also enables you to not have to leave
your passport with them for 5 days. I had no problems returning to the
USA with the Vietnamese or the Cambodian visa stamped in my passport. In
fact they didn't even look and if they did I doubt they would have known
what they were looking at. I told the immigration in both Guam and
Hawaii that I had been to these countries and they just searched my bags
a little more carefully but nothing more than that.

I flew on Saturday July 4th from Bangkok to Hanoi on Thai Airways for
USD 178. Upon arrival in Hanoi the officials asked what tour I was
booked with and knowing that one is not required I told them I had none.
Conveniently, a representative from some agency `happened' to be right
there and said he would sign my arrival card if I booked a tour with
him. Having no choice (I could not leave the airport without the arrival
card being signed) I agreed. They snagged about 10 other Western
tourists from my flight with this same scam. So we all piled into a
minivan (with AC thankfully) and took the 45 minute ride into downtown
Hanoi. The drive itself was very interesting, the trip down the narrow
road lined with rice fields on this sunny day contrasted with the
independence day fireworks I knew were going on back home.

A number of the people in the van (particularly the two French
travelers) were quite angry at this blatant rip off but the driver
insisted that we needed to get this paper work taken care of and since
he had our passports we had to go along. Well as soon as the minivan
stopped in front of their office and the driver got out he made the
mistake of leaving our passports on the dash. I promptly grabbed mine
and to the astonishment of the "we-must-always-follow-the-rules-Germans" 
I took off down the road, ducked into the first side street and
paid some kid a dollar (an outrageous sum I later found out) to take me
on his motorcycle to the hotel I had decided I wanted to go to. I stayed
at the Sophia Hotel which is just south of Hoan Kiem Lake for USD 12 a
night. Although this was the most I ever paid for a hotel in Vietnam it
was also the nicest room (AC, bathroom, large bed, desk, etc). 

I rented a moped from the people at the hotel for USD 5 a day and cruised
around for two days. The place I thought was the most intesting in terms
of a tourist sight was Ho Chi Minh's Mausoleum. After registering at the
gate and dropping off my camera a group of us were led single file with
hats off, sunglasses off, no gum, and hands out of pockets, into the
large concrete air conditioned structure that houses Ho's body as it lay
there in a glass case. Other intesting sights included the much bombed,
yet still servicable Long Bien Bridge over the Red River, the `Hanoi
Hilton' prison, and an Army museum. I don't want to get into sight
seeing too much as all this info can be found in the Lonely Planet
Vietnam, Laos & Cambodia book.

My general impressions of Hanoi are two: brown and bicycles. There are a 
few green trees there (I have pictures to prove it) but my mental picture
of Hanoi is of the uniformly brown buildings, sidewalks, and streets. The
other impression is the ubiquitous presence of bicycles. Mopeds are also 
in use but not to the extent of bicycles. Cars are virtually nonexistant.
As I walked down the streets the hum of gears and derailers provided a 
welcome change in the background noise from Bangkok's mayhem. The people
were quite friendly although shy when compared to those I would meet as I
traveled south. They are genuinely happy to meet tourists - even 
Americans. I do want to recommend the Cha Ca Restaurant which is located 
at 14 Cha Ca St a few blocks north of Hoan Kiem Lake. Although Cha Ca 
means fried fish in vietnamese I was able to get a vegetarian dish here
consisting of stir fried noodles and vegetables. A skillet on top of a 
clay pot filled with burning embers in placed on your table and you mix 
and cook the ingredients yourself. Total cost including a can of beer and
a 1 liter bottle of mineral water was about USD 2.

The one bureacratic thing that needs to be taken care of within 48 hours 
of ones arrival in vietnam is to register ones presence. I did this with:

Oscan Enterprises Ltd.
60 Nguyen Du Street
Hanoi
Tel. 84-42-52690, 84-42-65859
Fax. 84-42-57634

They also took care of the paper work for my internal travel permit which
I needed in order to travel outside Hanoi. They did both of these things
for USD 18 with same day service. Vietnam Tourism, TOSERCO,
Vietcochamber, and the Immigration Police Office all said it would take
at least two days and cost 50% more. I had Oscan write down over 20
places on my internal travel permit because I was not sure where I
wanted to stay on my trip south. As it turned out this document was only
checked when I left the country and the exact locations where I spent
each of my nights was not verified. In fact the only unpleasant
experience I had with government/police officials thoughout the entire
trip was the arrival incident at Noi Bai Airport in Hanoi. Throughout
the trip I did not get the feeling of being in a police state at all. In
fact I never saw any soldiers and most of the police were armed with
only a billy club.

Monday morning I bought a ticket to leave Hanoi at 4pm by train to Dong
Ha. The train station has a special place where foreigners have to go to
purchase tickets which are 5 times the rate that Vietnamese pay for the
same class (there is nothing you can do about it). The alternatives are
to take a bus or rent a car (USD 30 a day with driver). The buses are as
slow as the trains and don't offer the freedom of being able to walk
around so I did most of my traveling by train. If I would have been with
another person and definitely if there are three of you in the party the
rental car is the way to go. I met all sorts of people doing this and
believe me, compared to the trains/buses that I rode the rental car would
have been a dream. The driver will take you anywhere you want to go and
they pay for their own meals/lodging. The ticket to Dong Ha on the hard
seat (cheapest possible fare) was USD 17. At 3:55pm I was still sitting
in the offices of Oscan as we waited for their employee to return with
my passport and documents. He burst in at 3:57 and raced me on the back
of his scooter to the train station whereupon I caught my train with one
minute and thirty seconds to spare.

As far as I could tell I was the only westerner on the train as well as 
the only one who spoke english. I did meet one Vietnamese guy who like 
many others had spent some time in the former East Germany and the combination
of two less than fluent German speakers enabled us to `communicate' for a
while till it got to be too much effort and our conversation degenerated 
into staring out the window. Which brings me to my most vivid impression 
of Vietnam - the landscape. Of the 30 or so countries I have been to 
Vietnam is easily the most beautiful. I saw more shades of green then I 
knew existed. Carefully tended rice fields manually tended from dawn to 
dusk were always in view as were forest covered mountains. I frequently 
caught glimpses of pristine deserted beaches from the train window as we
made our way along the coast.

17 sleepless hours later I arrived in Dong Ha which is a main city in the 
region of the former DMZ. I spent two nights here while I explored the 
area that saw some of the heaviest fighting during the war. I visited  
the Truong Son National Cemetery as well as the area surrounding the Con 
Thien Firebase. Children in this region make a living by venturing out 
into the former battle fields and collecting scrap metal. While I was 
there one kid came back from the fields with his wicker basket filled with 
rusted pieces of mostly undecipherable metal. After weighing his booty on
a primative balance the loot was dumped onto a mound of the stuff in 
which I was able to find pieces of claymore mines and artillery shells.

A dinner I had at an initially empty restaurant in Dong Ha quickly turned
into some sort of spectacle as about 40 people came in to watch me eat. 
Not many visitors stop in Dong Ha as the `attractions' are out in the
countryside so visitors get alot of attention.

A 2 hour bus ride the next day deposited me in the city of Hue. I was 
able to rent a bicycle for 1000 Dong an hour (the exchange rate is 11000
dong for 1 USD) and visited the tomb of Tu Doc, the Citadel, and Thien Mu
Pagoda. Hue is a beautiful city situated on the banks of the Perfume 
River. But I had a train to catch and left at 2am after a 14 hour visit.

Another 18 hours and 18 dollars brought me to Nha Trang, a wonderful city
with a fantastic stretch of beach. A spent two nights at the Khach San 44
Hotel for USD 5 a night and for the first time was able to relax a bit 
after the previous grueling few days. The Po Nagar Cham Towers made for a 
nice historical tourist attraction but for the most part I just took it 
easy. There are plans to build a Club Med in Nha Trang when the embargo 
is lifted and unfortunately it is ideally suited for one. Nha Trang is a 
great vacation spot.

I then took a 5 hour bus ride to Dalat. This is often called the nicest 
city in Vietnam, and for good reason. It is the favorite spot for 
Vietnamses couples to spend their honeymoon as well as family vacations.
Dalat is situated a little over one hundred miles northeast of Saigon in the
mountains. It is the mountains that make Dalat such an attractive place. 
It is much cooler here than the rest of Vietnam and the mountains make 
for nice lakes, hiking trails, and waterfalls. But I didn't come to 
Vietnam for a honeymoon and left for Saigon after 1 night.

Saigon is much busier than Hanoi. Mopeds are now as plentiful as bicycles
and there are even a few cars now and then. Billboards and neon signs can
also be found here along with discos and expensive hotel cocktail lounges. 
Saigon goes to sleep later than Hanoi as young people cruise around on 
their mopeds up and down Le Loi Boulevard. I stayed at the Van Canh Hotel
for 55000 a night which is conveniently located just around the corner 
from a great vegetarian restaurant where full meals with sodas come to about 
one dollar. (It is all in the book if you want details)

Saigon has some interesting sights. In particular the former US Embassy,
Notre Dame Cathedral, and Reunification Hall are all must sees. But my
favorite was the Museum of US Imperialist Aggressive War Crimes. Here you
can get an extremely one sided view of the wars that the Vietnamese have
fought with the Americans as well as their traditional enemy China.
Various torture methods employeed by the Americans and South Vietnamese
Army are described as well as massacres of civilians (My Lai etc).

But as I mentioned earlier, the average person you are going to meet
does not harbor any animosity whatsoever and only wishes that the US
would lift the trade embargo so more foreign investment will come and
hopefully lift the populace from their present state of 3rd world
poverty.

In order to leave Vietnam by bus to Cambodia I had to get my exit port 
changed on my visa to Moc Bai which is the Vietnamese border town. I had 
this paper work done at the Oscan office in Saigon also in one day and 
also for the bargain price of USD 18.

Oscan Enterprises Ltd.
2D Pham Ngoc Thach Street
1st District 
Ho Chi Minh City
Tel. 84-8-231191 (also 231022 and 231023)
Fax. 84-8-231024

I don't want to seem like an agent for these people but they really got the 
job done. 

I applied for the Cambodian visa at their embassy when I was in
Hanoi and was able to get the stamp a week later from their consulate in 
Saigon. The people in Hanoi needed three photos and USD 10. They then 
gave me a slip of paper which I presented to the officials in Saigon who 
got another USD 20 out of me and then put the stamp good for 7 days in my
passport immediatly.

The bus for Phnom Penh left Saigon at 6am. We had a one hour wait on the
Vietnamese side of the border and then another hour wait on the Cambodian
side of the border. The wait on the Cambodian side was made enjoyable by
the fact that the UN peace keeping force (UNTAC) has a station set up
just inside the Cambodian border. The Chinese, Australian, Thai, and
Cambodian peace keepers let us wait inside with them as they showed off
their gear and refreshed us with their bottled water. The bus continued
arriving in Phnom Penh at about 4pm. Phnom Penh has alot more traffic
than Saigon. Although much of the traffic is UNTAC related the roads were
full of bicycles, mopeds, motorcycles, buses, and cars (in that order).
The city itself is in poor shape with all buildings, except the nicest
hotels, being in a state between run down and collapsed. Like the 
Vietnamese, the Cambodians are very hard working and every where 
construction and refurbishment seemed to be occuring. Attractions in 
Phnom Penh included the Royal Palace, National Museum, and Wat Phnom, 
among others. 

Of course Phnom Penh is also known for the Tuol Sleng Museum and 
the Killing Fields of Choeung Ek. The Security Prison 21 was formerly a 
high school that the Khmer Rouge turned into the largest detention and 
torture center in the country. Over 17,000 people held at S-21 were 
taken to Choeung Ek for execution. About 6 miles outside Phnom Penh, 
Choeung Ek is located at the end of a road in beautiful countryside. Here
the victims of S-21 were killed and buried. Mass graves, most of which 
have been exhumed, are visible as pits in the ground surrounded by 
pathways that are littered with bone fragments, teeth, and clothing. A 
memorial temple has been built on the sight which houses over 8000 skulls
arranged by age and gender. While I was there Malaysian members of UNTAC
were having their picture taken as they held the skulls in their hands.

I managed to rent a moped from my hotel and took a 40 mile trip south to 
the temples at Tonle Bati. Because I was not able to get to Angkor (lack of 
time) the temples here served as a poor substitute. Nonetheless it was a 
enjoyable if bumpy ride and the ruins were quite nice.

I took a Bangkok Airways flight from Phnom Penh back to Bangkok for USD 
160. All said my biggest regret is having missed Angkor and having eaten 
(or drinken) whatever it was that made me sick for the past week.

I arrived in Hanoi with USD 400. Here are some expenses (all in USD):

Viet registration/travel permit/exit port          38
Cambodian Visa                                     30
Train fares                                        35
Nha Trang to Dalat bus                              1
Dalat to Saigon bus                                 2
Saigon to Phnom Penh bus                            3
Hanoi hotel (two nights)                           24  
Dong Ha hotel (two nights)                         14
Nha Trang hotel (two nights)                       10
Dalat hotel (one night)                             4
Saigon Hotel (two nights)                          10
Phnom Penh Royal Palace fee (w/ camera)             4
Phnom Penh Pochentong airport tax                   5

Credit cards (from US banks or US citizens) are absolutely worthless in Vietnam.
I got a VISA cash advance from the Cambodian Commercial Bank in Phnom Penh 
(corner of Achar Mean and Soeung Ngoc Ming Street).

Total expenses for 10 days in Vietnam (includes everything except airfare and 
      initial visa purchased in Bangkok): USD 186
Total expeses for 4 days in Phnom Penh: USD 69

I want to thank:
Paul Durham
Bach Hoang
Pham Phan
for advice and info on the region before I left.

david
(sorry if this was too long or pretentious)

If anyone has specific questions you can email me directly at 
fish@helios.ucsc.edu
Xref: sparky rec.travel:10609 rec.travel.air:3438