HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: jwadsley@vaxc.cc.monash.edu.au
Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.misc
Subject: Re: Military Mechs?
Date: 29 Jul 92 10:03:56 +1000
Organization: Computer Centre, Monash University, Australia

In article <1992Jul28.154934.12739@news.columbia.edu>, jhk6@cunixb.cc.columbia.edu (John H Kim) writes:
> jwadsley@vaxc.cc.monash.edu.au writes:
>>There is no scientific basis on which to argue that mechs are more efficient
>>than normal vehicles. This applies to energy usage and weight of engines and
>>power sources. 
> 
> 	People have been trying to predict technology for years, and not 
> doing a terribly good job. Saying that you are out of date and then making 
> a blanket statement like 'There is no scientific basis...' is rather 
> presumptuous. MHD turbines work - the problem is that they are unable to 
> withstand the heat they generate. Fusion power does not (thus far). I do 
> not profess to know what the technology would be like to solve these 
> obstacles. I don't have a problem with people pointing out errors in Btech. 
> (Heck, given their original building and repair rules, there would be no 
> mechs at all in a couple of years.) However, I do have a problem with people 
> with simlistic assumptions about how technology will proceed. 

The 'No scientific basis...' was refering to postulates that mechs could be
more efficient than wheel based vehicles. If myomers are possible then more
efficient electrical engines are just as possible. I think that it is
simplistic to assume that myomer technology will appear without similar
advances in electrical motors. You also have the fact that electric engines are
very efficient anyway, ~80% I believe (Disclaimer...). Mechs can't be much
better than that regardless of the technology, because 100% is the limit.

I was trying to avoid making assumptions about technology. I was pointing out
general rules of thumb of energy/power conversion. These rules of thumb are
very unlikely to be proved wrong in any foreseeable future. On that basis alone
I can still say that mechs would not be more efficient that wheeled vehicles
in terms of power needs. I think this is quite a reasonable conclusion.

I have played BattleTech and it was OK but a bit slow for my taste. When I
played I did not care about all this stuff. What worried me more was the lack
of sensible military innovations, such as targeting equipment and multiple
operators per mech. 

James Wadsley.
Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.misc
From: ins894r@aurora.cc.monash.edu.au (Aaron Wigley [Wigs])
Subject: SR: Icons and Spells
Organization: Monash University
X-Newsreader: Tin 1.1 PL4
Date: Tue, 28 Jul 1992 06:08:20 GMT

Okay - since Wyrm has volunteered to compile the net.shadowrun.grimore,
how about we brainstorm together for some practical joke spells..

You know - the sort that causes people's hair to drop out/grow/change colour,
just the thing for April the First :)

I've got a few in mind (Wyrm and Keith have already seen them - I'll 
publish them to the net sooner or later, after I clean them up :)

The Wigs of Oz,
Aaron Wigley
Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.misc
From: kyle@Csli.Stanford.EDU (Kyle Wohlmut)
Subject: Re: OPIGS [was Re: Homemade Systems]
Followup-To: rec.games.frp.misc
Summary: General silliness
Organization: Rocking Pig Enterprises
Date: Thu, 23 Jul 1992 22:13:11 GMT

In article <1992Jul22.154128.4904@bronze.ucs.indiana.edu>
ericg@bronze.ucs.indiana.edu (E. Chris "Bronzetooth" Garrison) writes:

>Actually, I like silly gaming.  It is a secret vice.  We ran "Fuzzy
>Animal World", a Champions game in which all the heroes were 
>anthropomorphic animals, like on Disney's TaleSpin.  It was pretty 
>goofy.

Sooner or later we ARE going to run "Streetfighter World," where
everyone plays a Ninja-HOHO version of one of the characters from
Street Fighter II (Championship Edition).  The entire campaign
consists of nothing but the players getting on jets to go to some
remote part of the world to kick the shit out of some other badass
dude for no adequately explored reason.

-/-/-/-/-/-/
Kyle
'My strength is much greater than yours.'
/-/-/-/-/-/-
Xref: sparky rec.games.frp.misc:3176 talk.religion.misc:13081 alt.pagan:7454
From: Elizabeth.Mccoy@bbs.oit.unc.edu (Elizabeth Mccoy)
Subject: Re: Media in Roleplaying Games
Summary: Things to do in a non-supers game...? 
Organization: Extended Bulletin Board Service
Date: Mon, 27 Jul 1992 16:51:22 GMT


(I love this thread...)

Very, very soon, in the GURPS Space game that I'm in, I strongly suspect
that we're going to do something *very* newsworthy. (Ever stop an
intersteller war by taking over both world governments? Don't try this
at home, and don't get caught.) Being PCs, we've got at *least* rumors
of many of our more amusing exploits floating around (some of them are
even fake rumors!), so I can get the local Weekly World News or Enquirer
anytime I want. 

What I would like some ideas on is exactly what are these reporters
going to do (stake out the ship, follow people, I assume?), and what
sorts of things are they going to be interested in?  I can probably do
fine, but <gulp> this would be my first RL GMing experience and I'm
nervous. Not only are there going to be reporters around, there's also
going to be a mystery that I'm sure the reporters would be only too
happy to tag along on so they can get the full story on how we solve
problems... 

--E_McCoy@unhh.unh.edu
  
--
   The opinions expressed are not necessarily those of the University of
     North Carolina at Chapel Hill, the Campus Office for Information
        Technology, or the Experimental Bulletin Board Service.
           internet:  bbs.oit.unc.edu or 152.2.22.80
Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.misc
From: aha@meryl.csd.uu.se (Anders Hallberg)
Subject: Re: Rolemaster Character Creation Aid: What would you expect from it?
Organization: /home/ida/d87/aha/.organization
	<1992Jul24.154339.13202@burrhus.harvard.edu>
	<1992Jul29.123901.1598@corax.udac.uu.se>
Date: Fri, 31 Jul 1992 11:34:23 GMT

In article <1992Jul24.015215.18694@pacifier.rain.com> michael@pacifier.rain.com (Michael Smith) writes:
>>>I have begun the tedious task of writing a character creation aid for
>>>Rolemaster.

>>	Sir, thou art truly a hero of our times.  May the Gods bless you
>>and your race to the nth generation.

>  I have written such a program.  It is on version 0.7 (meaning no
>comments and still a bug or two to find) now and I haven't touched it
>for a long while since we don't use RM any more.  You might want to
>have a look at it Michael.

  I should have known better.  I have a load of mail asking for the
program.  One of the mailers offered to make it available on anonymous
ftp.  I will rewrite the 'to do' and 'bugs' files in english, polish a
few things and mail it to him.  I will post a notice in this newsgroup
and in rec.games.frp.announce .archives when it is done.  I will not
mail it to anyone else (it is quite large, about 300k of source code +
the database. Yes, all those tables).

  Be patient.

	/Anders Hallberg (aha@meryl.csd.uu.se)

Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.misc
From: jerry@teetot.acusd.edu (Jerry Stratton)
Subject: Re: SR: Blood 'n guts games
Organization: usd
Distribution: usa
Date: Wed, 22 Jul 92 14:33:07 GMT

<Brru1x.EyH@news.cso.uiuc.edu> dv52151@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (Axly) writes:
>
>a reasonable time (say Imp Reaction +1), there aren't more than

Here's a question for Mage/shaman players. Do you find spell locks at all
useful for keeping spells on yourself? I thought about having a spell
(Oxygenate) locked on my latest character, but I couldn't think of a
reasonable way to protect myself against spell grounding. I mean, as
near as I can tell from the  rules, anyone with a spell lock is a
sitting duck for astral mages/shamans.

Jerry Stratton
-- 
jerry@teetot.acusd.edu            Compuserve: 76506,636
                                  GEnii: J.STRATTON6
Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.misc
From: takashi@nevada.edu (Edward T. Tonai)
Subject: Blood Bowl
Organization: Anarchy Football League
Date: Mon, 27 Jul 1992 20:30:06 GMT

I'm looking for anyone with anything to say about Blood Bowl.
Please email me.

Edward T. Tonai
takashi@redrock.nevada.edu


Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.misc
From: kring@efes.physik.uni-kl.de (Thomas Kettenring)
Subject: Re: New Name for Flesh Golem wanted!
Organization: FB Physik, Universitaet Kaiserslautern, Germany
Date: Wed, 29 Jul 1992 20:53:25 GMT

In article <1992Jul28.203214.1668@bronze.ucs.indiana.edu>, ericg@bronze.ucs.indiana.edu (E. Chris Garrison) writes:
>[Mary Shelley: Frankenstein]
>The work is often considered the very first true science
>fiction novel, because she was extrapolating from Voltaire's (I think)
						   ^^^^^^^^
>discovery that dead tissue moves as if alive when electric current is
>applied.

Alessandro Volta, the physicist.  Voltaire was an author and philosopher
50 years older than Volta.

-- 
--------------thomas kettenring, 2 dan, kaiserslautern, germany---------------
Do you ask a Napoleon why it has to be Moscow, of all places?  Do you ask a
Mondrian why one has to paint only in the rectangularly framed primary colours
Red, Blue, and Yellow?  Ah, how all questions are ruined in view of a persuas-
ively recited system of madness! And is there a mortar keeping those systems
together firmer than real or supposed enemies?  -  Robert Gernhardt
From: wcalderw@nmsu.edu (William A. Calderwood)
Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.misc
Subject: Re: Military Mechs?
Date: 28 Jul 92 18:16:51 GMT
	<55239@mentor.cc.purdue.edu>
Organization: NMSU Computer Science

>possible.  A humanoid shape would be too vulnerable to air attack and too
>easy to knock over when compared with a multi-base shape.

Hey, why do you think they make us crawl around in the mud for basic
training.

Tanks:
(low profile and streamlined) harder to hit and if it is hit then the
chances are greater that a round will just rickete(spelling) off.
(more armor and heavier weapons) shure helps to have those tracks.

Humanoid Mechs:
(bad profiles) makes it easier to hit and possibly knock over. 
(less armor and lighter weapons) can't support as much weight on those
legs.

Insectoid Mechs:
(low profiles, streamlined) hmm sounds like a tank to me.
(more armot and heavier weapons) more legs more weight can be
supported. But why do this when all ya have to build is a tank.
(getting a system to cordinate all those leg movements and supply
enough power to keep the whole thing moving might slow it down in the
end)

Bill,
wcalderw@nmsu.edu
From: cassidy@cps.msu.edu.cps.msu.edu (John J Cassidy)
Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.misc
Subject: Re: New Name for Flesh Golem wanted!
Date: 28 Jul 92 18:51:43 GMT
Reply-To: cassidy@cps.msu.edu.cps.msu.edu (John J Cassidy)
Organization: Dept. of Computer Science, Michigan State University
Originator: cassidy@indian.cps.msu.edu

In article <1992Jul25.043223.546@njitgw.njit.edu> cxc4107@hertz.njit.edu (Christopher Lee Cavender) writes:
>Okay all you creative net-types! I need a new name for Flesh Golems! And DONT
>give me varations on Frankenstein! There is no reason to name a medivail monster
>after a 19th centuray fictional creation!
>						Chris

	The 19th century creation that I think you are refering to is
"Gollum" by Tolkien.  However, I beleive that there is a legendary
creature called a "golem" in Eastern European legends.  The name is used
for a creature that is created my a magician as a mindless servant.

As always: I could be wrong.

	John J Cassidy		Cassidy@indian.cps.msu.edu
	~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
From: v131p9t3@ubvmsb.cc.buffalo.edu (Ninstar Cybermage - Back Again from the Mists!)
Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.misc
Subject: Re: Military Mechs?
Date: 29 Jul 92 14:58:00 GMT
Organization: University at Buffalo
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41

>Battletech tanks annoy me a  bit.  For their cost, they are effective, but
>they tend to be weaker than equal ton mecha, even in enviroments where they
>are not considerably hampered.  This makes no sense to me.  It seems that
>the reason for their weakness is the critical hits on them are more  vicious.
>Why?  If anything, a tank has less vulnerability than a mecha.  It has one
>'limb' (the turret).  However, for some reason it can become stuck.  Why
>can't one  of a mecha's limbs become stuck?  If anything, mecha should be
>much more vulnerable than  tanks  in terms of critial hits.  It has many more
>moving/exposed parts than a comparitive tank.

Ummm... If your shoulder actuator gets hit then your arm is stuck.  Same with
hip actuators and legs.  Tanks turret junctures are apparently not armored as
effectively as Mechs Joints for some reason.  Neither are the treads, though 
it's fairly easy to postulate methods to solve this problem.  This means that
in Battletech, a hit that doesn't penetrate the armor on a tank can often
jam the turret or the tread, whereas to a large extent this isn't possible
on a mech(torsoes being an obvious exception).  If you want, you can add
Arm and leg criticals to the charts, or ignore the turret and tread effects
attached to the armor hit locations.  

James Shank           	#		v131p9t3@ubvms.cc.buffalo.edu
AKA: Ninstar Cybermage  #	or	shank@acsu.buffalo.edu
###############################################################################
"Ten thousand years old...He could be trouble." -Vampire Hunter D
"Every night I say a prayer, in the hope that there's a heaven..."-Styx
"How do you make ammends for a god's sins?"-Forgotten Realms
##############################################################################
Sneaky Types,Inc.:Clandestine operations for the common man.
	"Don't call us.  We'll just bill you when it's done."
From: chestr@buitc.bu.edu (Stephen Dyer)
Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.misc
Subject: Re: SRUN: Combat, Initiative, Rule of 6's...
Date: 23 Jul 92 13:01:12 GMT
Organization: BBN Systems & Technologies, Cambridge, MA, USA

In article <BrrAG4.95x@news.cso.uiuc.edu> pmwg1641@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (Peter M. White) writes:
>Having heard, IMHO, adequate discussion about the documentation of the
>non-implementation of the Rule of 6 for initiative rolls, I would
>like to say that I will continue to to inappropiately apply it
>since I think it plays better.  Tom Dowd may believe otherwise. So
>be it; I disagree.  SR rules as is makes being nonwired totally hopeless
>in combat.  Here is a classic example of the rules adding insult to
>injury: initiative.  It is one thing for wireheads to have more actions.
>Or to go first.  But both?!?  I played a character without cyber once and
>it is a little dull to have to wait around while everyone else completes
>their three actions so that my character has an opportunity to draw
>his gun.  Without the Rule of 6, that character does not even have the
>hope of getting 2 actions with a lucky roll.  (He was a troll.)
>
>
>My thinking is that, provided one survives the round, the total number of
>actions should be balanced out.  If I get 1 action and someone else gets
>3, I may as well go home because I can't even reload his spare rifle
>fast enough to keep up.  But if he gets 3 and I get 2, well, it is obvious
>who is the better gunslinger, but I can get things done, also.
>
>
>--Peter

Even though the campaign I have been playing in has been using the
rerolling 6's on initiative (having never seen any indication that
we shouldn't), I think I have to agree that rerolling all those dice
for the reaction/reflex enhanced makes timing kind of strange during
combat.  Namely, playing a samurai who moves like a blur during the
first part of the round then essentially stands still during the
last half makes things appear ridiculously non-linear.  Anyone who
can move that fast isn't going to just stop and wait for everyone
else to go, with zero capability of initiating any action.  Myself,
I think I agree with the idea of making the one natural die rerollable,
but not the dice from enhancements.  That allows for the chance that
slower characters may occasionally get that burst of speed and move
with the big boys, but leaves wired/magicked speedsters as tending
to go earlier (but rarely at ridiculously high initiatives).  That
is, an unenhanced combatant could roll a 6 (and reroll another 6)
and get a relatively high initiative, but if a sammi with wr-2 rolls
three 6's, only one of them is rerollable (and if he only rolls one
6, whether or not he can reroll depends on which die landed a 6).


Just my 2 nuyen's worth.
Stephen
From: ward1@husc8.harvard.edu (Lester Ward)
Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.misc
Subject: Re: SRUN: Toning down mages
Date: 30 Jul 92 13:44:44 GMT
Article-I.D.: husc8.ward1.712503884
 <28JUL199213085188@jane.uh.edu> <ward1.712417727@husc8> <29JUL199213410249@jane.uh.edu>

chem7l@jane.uh.edu writes:
>The thinking here is that if you put karma into something, you are investing
>a part of your being into it.  And, since it is of a magical nature, it serves
>more readily to provide an astral link than a lock of hair or something that
>just has your DNA in it.

If that's what you meant, yeah, I'd agree.  I've never been given a reason
to assume otherwise.

Also, I dug up the following:

"Spells...are astrally active under the right circumstances.  
Spells are active when beging cast if they are sustained or 
rendered perminant by Quickening or spell locks."  - Grim, pg 61

"When astral and physical actions mix in one Action phase, resolve 
those originating on the Astral Plane first in the action phase." 
grim pg65

"A magician in Astral Space cannot cast a spell at another spell."
SR pg 91

>Jim Corbit

Wordman
Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.misc
From: jhk6@cunixb.cc.columbia.edu (John H Kim)
Subject: Re: Best Super system
Reply-To: jhk6@cunixb.cc.columbia.edu (John H Kim)
Organization: Columbia University
Distribution: na
Date: Wed, 22 Jul 1992 16:17:55 GMT

laird@think.com (Laird Popkin) writes:
>jacobus@mentor.cc.purdue.edu (Bryan J. Maloney) writes:
>>While it is true that I've quite a liking for the GURPS system, I would
>>hesitate to inflict GURPS Supers upon anyone.  The problem is that there
>>are still too many flaws in Supers II to be ignored.  Some specific flaws:
...
[long discussion of 3 flaws deleted]
...
>>There are some more broken bits, but these are three of the worst.
>>
>>GURPS Supers has good ideas, but the problems have yet to be fixed with it.
>
>True, there are parts of the system with problems, but (again) I don't
>think that means that the entire system is broken, just that a few things
>need to be fixed.  It's certainly got no more broken bits than any other
>comparable system. 

	I would disagree here.There are *alot* of bits of Supers which are 
broken. True, other comparable systems also have flaws, but the degree of 
problems is alot more - especially when you combine them with Psionics, 
which is required for many basic comic-book powers. The problem, as I see 
it, is that GURPS relies on alot of approximations which are only good in 
the range of average human values. This results in some scaling problems 
like with Growth/Shrinking. 

	The other thing to be careful of is cost ratios. For example, 
damage generally costs 6pts per d6, whereas defense is 3pts per 1DR. This 
means that attacks will tend to overwhelm defenses. Pair up a bunch of 
basic Supers characters, and you will find a large number of 'one-punches' 
and 'can't-hurts'. The DR-HP cost discrepancy is not that much of a problem 
if you are using the Stun Damage rules (3pts per 1DR, 1pt per stun point), 
but if not, then you have big problems. 

	You are practically forced to do something about defense rolls, 
since base rules mean that many Supers will be unhittable, and Contest of 
Skills means that it will be difficult to miss. Note that if you use 
Contest of Skills then to bring up your attack roll costs a maximum of 
4 or 8pts per +1, whereas PD & Move cost 25pts per +1, although Levitation 
dodge costs max 4pts per +1 (2 levels of skill). 

	There are certainly things to be said for GURPS Supers, but it 
requires alot of fixing and work to set up. 

--------------------------------------------------------------------------
John Kim                    | "Stop, you fiend, or I'll stand remarkably
jhk6@cunixb.cc.columbia.edu | still for a long period of time."
Columbia University         |                              - Stone Boy
From: mh563b12@ducvax.auburn.edu
Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.misc
Subject: Anyone Heard of Rifts
Date: 23 Jul 92 01:51:35 GMT

RE: Rifts

I was wondering if anyone here has tried Rifts.  I have been playing it for
about a year on and off and really like it, but I have seen no postings about
it on this net.  ( I have only had access for a short time though.)

I would appriciate anyone's $.02 worth.

Chris

P.S. 
Please forgive if this doesn't transmit properly.
This is my first post using this system.
:-)
From: al@calsci.UUCP (Al Petterson)
Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.misc
Subject: Re: Best Super system
Date: 21 Jul 92 01:41:26 GMT
Reply-To: al%calsci@gvgpsa.gvg.tek.com (Al Petterson)
Followup-To: rec.games.frp.misc
Organization: California Scientific Software
News-Software: FSUUCP 1.1 Release 5


>Sorry;  I still like the Marvel Super Heros system.
>
>Ouroboros

Yeah!  MSH was the first non-D&D RPG I ever played -- started it early in
college, eventually dropped it in favor of Champions, when I wanted a
detailed, all-inclusive, balanced system, and had completely turned off to
D&D and other children's games.

We had first-edition MSH, not the second-ed with seventeen columns added to
the right of the Universal Table just so the munchkins can powergame better.
ONE table!  And played properly, you never bothered to roll the dice or use
the table.  Today, when we ECNGers play Amber, I'm reminded forcefully of
those MSH adventures.

MSH has its great points and my experiences with it taught me more about
ROLE playing than any other system has since (until Amber).  I tried never
to use the numerical values for the various stat rankings;  I far preferred
the text ranks -- ...typical, good, excellent, remarkable, incredible,
amazing...

Great game.  Simple, good for weaning comic-book aficionados away from D&D,
elegant in its original presentation.

Of course, back then, Marvel was putting out some good comics (X-Men, New
Mutants) with a good, consistent gameable universe behind them and scads of
interesting characters to use as NPCs (and even PCs) -- now don't get me
started on *that* in this newsgroup...

For the record, Champions is my superhero game of choice and Hero my generic
system of choice -- for the reasons others have mentioned regarding it.

al%calsci@gvgpsa.gvg.tek.com (Al Petterson)
---

"The tyranny of a prince in an oligarchy is not so dangerous to the public
welfare as the apathy of a citizen in a democracy."
From: ward1@husc8.harvard.edu (Lester Ward)
Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.misc
Subject: Re: SR: Blood 'n guts games
Date: 23 Jul 92 14:05:40 GMT
Distribution: usa

dv52151@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (Axly) writes:

>jerry@teetot.acusd.edu (Jerry Stratton) writes:

>>near as I can tell from the  rules, anyone with a spell lock is a
>>sitting duck for astral mages/shamans.

Yup.  Quickening is generally worth the cost.  (Although quickened spells
can be deceptively powerful.  Tess likeed to drink vodka, but hated getting
drunk, so she quickened a prophylaxis D spell.  Given the rather loose
definition of said spell, this had the potential to allow her to suck up
Narcojet rounds by the score.)

>There is no real way to protect yourself against spell grounding. However,
>when you are going at IMP REACTION +4, few other mages get the 
>chance. *sigh* I'd like to see that spell lock get fried. Maybe an
>ambush, oh GM-who-reads-r.g.f.m?

The Im Reac +4 is only good in combat.  When attacking astrally, most mages
don't have the resources to provide constant astral cover, so you can usually
get through unbeknownst to them (but beknownst to us...).  When Initiative
hasn't even been rolled when you attack 5 init. dice are useless.

Lastly, use elementals.  They may not ground, but they'll take the muther
out.

>the rest of my life watchign the world go by in slow motion. Joe Mage
>gets a spelllock and can kick my butt, and no one ever picks on that
>glaring vulnerability.

Oh, but we do. (heh, heh, heh).  Mages in our campaign have quickly learned
that foci are Bad Things to own.

Wordman
Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.misc