HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: spedpr@thor.cf.ac.uk (Paul Richards)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
Subject: Re: Asimov9s robots
Date: 14 Apr 92 20:15:44 GMT
Organization: University of Wales College at Cardiff
X-Mailer: Cardiff Computing Maths PP Mail Open News Gateway

|The Laws of Robotics were not intended to resemble AI research, which did not
|exist when they were formulated, or to offer insight into how a robot works.
|

An arts programme in the UK did a tribute to Asimov last night and not
surprisingly did a bit on robots. Two of the people interviewd were
Marvin Minsky and Engelberger (forgotten his first name). Both talked
about how Asimov had been an influence in what they were later to do.
Engelberger in particular said that he had been an influence in his
pursuing his design of robots.

Quite often, the spark of interest that leads to major discoveries is
science fiction and I think Asimov's contribution to AI and robotics
should be seen in this light. Although current robots are nothing like
he portrayed them to be, in many ways he influenced their birth.

As an aside, Asimov's brother was interviewed and described how Asimov
was such a prolific writer. Apparently, he would get up at 6 in the
morning and work into the afternoon and that's ALL he did throughout his
life! 

-- 
  Paul Richards at Cardiff university, UK.

  spedpr@uk.ac.cf.thor	Internet: spedpr%thor.cf.ac.uk@nsfnet-relay.ac.uk
  UUCP:     spedpr@thor.cf.UUCP or ...!uunet!mcsun!ukc!cf!thor!spedpr
+++
From: v075q5fr@ubvmsb.cc.buffalo.edu (Scott J Gorcey)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
Subject: Diane Duane's "Doors" series - Need Information.
Date: 14 Apr 92 06:35:00 GMT
Organization: University at Buffalo
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41


     Does anyone know if Diane Duane ever published the 2 sequels she
     planned as the concluding chapters to _The Door Into Fire_ and
     _The Door Into Shadow_?  The final book's proposed title was,
     I remember her saying, _The Door Into Starlight_...

     And if they WERE published, are they IN PRINT??

     Thanks.

                ^She's My Cousin But Doesn't She^
                      ^Look Almost Exactly^
           ____________^Like Laura Palmer^____________
          ^Scott Gorcey, v075q5fr@ubvms.cc.buffalo.edu^ 
Xref: sparky rec.arts.sf.written:5457 alt.fan.pern:605
From: wangc@cpsc.UCalgary.ca (Carol Wang)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written,alt.fan.pern
Subject: did mccaffrey really write "all the weyrs of pern"?
Date: 4 Apr 92 03:17:49 GMT
Organization: The University of Calgary

after the library finally coughed up AtWoP, i read it immediately, but
something kept nagging at me all the while.  after finishing it, it
struck me that the book just didn't feel like mccaffrey (altho her
style has been changing along with the sudden proliferation of
sequels) and there is no co-author on this book.

do i have any evidence?  how about the constant referrals to "wife"
and "mate" that were completely absent in the previous pern books (in
fact i seem to remember the wedding in "dragonquest" which they stated
was not something that most people did.  most especially not
dragonriders).

less concrete is the seeming naivete of the plot: "every man, woman,
and child loves the masterharper", didn't he have just as many enemies
as lessa and f'lar?  all those weyrleaders, lords and masters that
suddenly didn't understand human motivations anymore.  "of course
aivis is good how could anyone try to destroy it?".

the rest is just a gut feeling.  am i completely deranged or did
anyone else get the same impression?

carol
From: expert@diku.dk (Stephan Grubbe)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
Subject: list of ASOMOV's books
Date: 13 Apr 92 15:02:13 GMT
Organization: Department of Computer Science, U of Copenhagen

Hi all Asimov fans!

  I was very sad when I found out that the true master of this
genre had died. I really love the way he wrote his stories and subjects
and visons he presented in them. A truly great loss to the world of sf.

Now to my question: Has someone outthere in the netlands a compiled list
of all novels Asimov has ever written? I'm also interested in the short 
stories, so a list over them would be nice too.

If noone has such a list I would like to compile one my self, so please
e-mail me any titles you have anyway! Maybe the list should contain 
the publisher and year also, so info on that would be nice too.

C'ya

  Stephan
From: goldfarb@ocf.berkeley.edu (David Goldfarb)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
Subject: Re: Steven Brust
Date: 8 Apr 1992 06:54:04 GMT
Organization: The Sinister Icy Black Hand of Death Club
Reply-To: goldfarb@ocf.berkeley.edu (David Goldfarb)
NNTP-Posting-Host: tornado.berkeley.edu
Originator: goldfarb@tornado.berkeley.edu

In article <CKD.92Apr1143309@loiosh.eff.org> ckd@eff.org (Christopher Davis) writes:
)(What's this I hear about another book set in Dragaera, but without Vlad
)narrating?  

	When Brust signed autographs at "The Other Change of Hobbit" at
New Year's, he said that the next Vlad book -- to be titled _Athyra_ -- was
not going to be first-person. (Or, at least, not first-person from Vlad's
POV.)
	He also mentioned the possibility of a sequel to _The Phoenix Guards_
set about 500 years later. (Me: "500 years later? Wouldn't that be right
around the time of..." Brust, grinning: "Uh-huh.")

	(We know from _The Phoenix Guards_, of course, that Khaavren 
survived the Interregnum. What took me more by surprise was his cameo
appearance in _Teckla_.)

)I'm also not talking about _Brokedown Palace_, which is,
)strictly speaking, not set in Dragaera ;-)

	Eh? Care to expand on this? Not set in the Dragaeran empire, yes.
Set on the same planet, most certainly.

)--
)Christopher Davis

-- 
David Goldfarb    goldfarb@ocf.berkeley.edu   (Insert standard disclaimer)
"Baldrick, you wouldn't know a cunning plan if it came up, bit you on the
behind, and sang three choruses of a song set to the tune of 'I am a Pirate 
King' called 'I am a Cunning Plan'."
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
From: dani@netcom.com (Dani Zweig)
Subject: Elizabeth Moon:  Liar's Oath
Date: Sun, 05 Apr 92 08:40:33 GMT
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services  (408 241-9760 guest) 

I feel a sequel coming on.

"Liar's Oath" is itself a sequel to "Surrender None".  It is in many
ways a 'backfill' book, showing how the seeds of the Girdish organization 
of "The Deed of Paksenarion" were planted in the early years after Gird's
war.  The story itself focuses on Luap, Gird's chronicler, who takes power
despite his oath not to, and proves himself to have no talent for it.

The book *could* be complete in itself, but I doubt that it's meant to
be:  The story is framed by a pair of chapters (beginning and end)
linking it to "The Deed of Paksenarion."  Since those chapters add
nothing to the story except for a minor and unnecessary plot device,
and since the book begins/ends with a roomful of sleeping mages, I
expect to see another book come along in a year or two, in which
Paksenarion *wakes* those mages.

My opinion of this book is much the same as my opinion of "Surrender
None":  Competent, adequate, and quite lacking in the occasional
brilliance which raised "Sheepfarmer's Daughter" above its generic roots.

-----
Dani Zweig
dani@netcom.com

"The death of God left the angels in a strange position."
	--Internal documentation, programmer unknown

Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
From: REBECCA@YaleVM.YCC.Yale.Edu (Rebecca Drayer)
Subject: Re: Vonda N. McIntyre
Organization: Yale University
Date: Wed, 15 Apr 92 19:59:49 EDT

In article <1992Apr15.210515.17293@acsu.buffalo.edu>
v075q5fr@ubvmsb.cc.buffalo.edu (Scott J Gorcey) writes:
 
>
>
>     Is anyone also a fan of Vonda's work?  I just found a copy of
>     _Fireflood and other stories_, which is brilliant so far.
 
You might also want to try _Superluminal_.  I believe it's an expanded version
of one of the stories in the _Fireflood_ collection.  _Superluminal_ is about
a woman who wants to become one of the elite star pilots, but to do so, she
must have her biological heart replaced with a mechanical pump.  (I'm not quite
sure why; something about the "rhythms of starflight.")
 
Anyway, I thought it was really good.
 
*************************************************************************
Rebecca A. Drayer, EMT        |    Rebecca@Yalevm.Ycc.Yale.edu
P.O. Box 6349 Yale Station    |    Computing Assistant
New Haven, CT 06520           |    Silliman College, Yale University
 
"For my purpose holds to sail beyond the sunset, and beyond the baths
 of all the western stars, until I die."
                                       -"Ulysses", Alfred Lord Tennyson
In Memory of Isaac Asimov: 1920-1992
*************************************************************************
From: jefft@athena.mit.edu (Jeff Tang)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
Subject: Use of Weapons by Banks
Date: 7 Apr 92 00:01:51 GMT
Distribution: rec
Organization: Massachusetts Institute of Technology


I just finished the book (in paperback), and boy am I impressed.  I'm going
to have to read it again in a few months to get everything.



Is Banks' other stuff as good as this?
--
Jeff Tang
jefft@athena.mit.edu
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written,rec.arts.sf.misc
From: marotta@hannah.enet.DEC.COM ("Hurt not the Earth, neither the sea, nor the trees.   08-Apr-1992 0956", Revelations 7:3)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
Subject: RE: "Summer Queen"
Date: 9 Apr 92 06:31:14 GMT

I raved over this book, and unintentionally left out the name of the
auther.  "The Summer Queen" was written by Joan D. Vinge, also
famous for the prequel, "The Snow Queen."  I also have a three-book
volume from Science Fiction Book Club by her, called "Catspaw."
This is about a young man who is telepathic in a future that
reminds me of cyberpunk novels, but Vinge instills the main
character with a sympathic personality (something I find missing
in those cyberpunk books).
From: mcutter@gacvx2.gac.edu
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
Subject: Re: _Postman_ Movie
Date: 13 Apr 92 21:11:48 GMT
Article-I.D.: gacvx2.1992Apr13.151149.847
Organization: Gustavus Adolphus College, St. Peter, Minnesota

David Brin has a paperback out right now.  It's called Earth, and I am in the
process of reading it.  If I have the time (ie.  school doesn't end before then
) I may drop a review or something

-Matt
From: jdeitch@umiami.ir.miami.edu
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
Subject: Re: Do you have a towel?
Date: 9 Apr 92 13:33:37 EDT
Organization: Univ of Miami IR

rcharbon@athena.mit.edu (Ray Charbonneau) writes:
> iasimov@batpad.lgb.CA.US (Isaac Asimov) writes:
> 
> |>    IS IT JUST ME, OR IS IT HOT IN HERE????????
> 
> Warning - this jerk set followups to misc.test, a simple trick, but one that
> usually catches someone.  Anyone want to find out who really posted this?

I tried fingering him, but his site doesn't exist to our machine ...

From the path his message travelled through, it's probably the same person
who's been forging the Wesley Crusher posts in the Startrek newsgroups.

- Jonathan
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Internet : jdeitch@umiami.miami.edu | Go Braves !! | "I hate it when I can't
---------------------------------------------------| trust my own technology !" 
"Thrills!  Chills!  Magic!  Prizes!"  -- Hurricane |    -- Geordi LaForge

Gene Roddenberry, Isaac Asimov, Jim Henson, Dr Seuss, Mel Blanc ... Sigh ...
From: ARL00SJB@UNCCVM.UNCC.EDU
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
Subject: Re: Ellison Recordings
Date: 14 Apr 92 17:49:37 GMT
Organization: UNC Charlotte

There is the Harlan Ellison Record Collection, of which I am a member.  I will
look around the house and find one of the club bulletins so I can post the
address for you later.  I have two of the recordings, one of which is the
one you want.  I can't remember if they had any more of that one left, or
not.  One may also buy books and other things through HERC.  I have a copy
of an original manuscript, signed by Harlan Ellison, that I got several
years ago.  Harlan writes a column for the HERC as well, and we members
often get to read his current thoughts, opinions, frustrations, etc.  He
talked about his chronic, persistent illness once.  His wife, Susan,
edits the HERC.  Its appearance in the mailbox is sporadic, but faithful.
 
-Jean
From: qvortrup@inf.ethz.ch (Michael Qvortrup)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
Subject: Re: David Palmer: Threshold
Date: 14 Apr 92 05:30:02 GMT
Organization: Dept. of Computer Science, Swiss Federal Institute of technology (ETH), Zurich

In article <1992Apr13.215334.26101@fy.chalmers.se> tfafr@fy.chalmers.se (Fredrik Rantakyr|) writes:
>
>Looking for information on the sequel to the book Threshold by David 
>Palmer. Info on the author also appreciated. 
>

Would that be 'To halt Armageddon' ? In that case the book appears to
be out of print. I've been looking for it for about 3 years and haven't
found it yet.

Just to make sure we are talking about the same 'Threshold':(SPOILER)

A mixture of SF and Fantasy with a cute little pixie thrown in, an
adventure in Tibet and a rather unusual flight (at least the craft is)
to the other end of the Milkyway ending with an adventorous crossing of
a planet under weird circumstances?

Greetings,
--Mike

-- 
#include <std-disclm.h>-----------------------------------------------------
Real Life: Michael Christian Heide Qvortrup      A Dane         ETH, Zuerich
e-mail   : qvortrup@inf.ethz.ch                  abroad         Switzerland
Institut fuer wissenschaftliches Rechnen  /  Inst. of Scientific Computation
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
From: stedee@auto-trol.com (Steve Deemer)
Subject: Re: First-person Narrative Authors
Followup-To: rec.arts.sf.written
Summary: Additional
Keywords: authors
Organization: Auto-trol Technology Corporation
Distribution: na
Date: Wed, 8 Apr 1992 14:56:06 GMT

In article <26980007@hpspkla.spk.hp.com> mcjunkin@hpspkla.spk.hp.com (Bart L. McJunkin) writes:
>###########################################################################
>
>I'm looking for authors that write first person narrative
>stories.  These stories tend to be my head and shoulders
>favorites.   Here are some examples:
>
>Roger Zelazny
>Steve Brust
>Glen Cook
>E. Friesner
>
>Please help me add to the list,  I'll even take famous names ( I've found
>that I've read so many Niven books that I cannot remember if I've read
>a particular work -- so, I've stopped reading any of his work.)
>
>Bart
>
Raymond Chandler.  Not SF, but you won't care.  If first person
narrative is what you want, this is some of the best.


-- 
Steven Deemer
stedee@auto-trol.COM                           Auto-trol Technology Corporation
					       12500 North Washington Street
(303) 252-2438	                               Denver, CO 80241-2404
From: 910252m@ace.acadiau.ca (DWAYNE ALLAN MAC KINNON)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
Subject: David Eddings
Summary: Great!!!!!
Date: 14 Apr 92 16:56:44 GMT
Organization: Acadia University

IMHO, David Eddings is a great author, and both his series are well worth 
waiting for. I'm just glad he came out with the Elenium, because it made the 
wait for books of the Malloreon a little less painful.

Stick
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
From: ba@mrcnext.cso.uiuc.edu (B.A. Davis-Howe)
Subject: Re: Irish/Celtic Fantasy
Organization: University of Illinois at Urbana
Date: Tue, 14 Apr 1992 22:07:14 GMT

murphy@npri6.npri.com (David P. Murphy) writes:

>>I have read one thing by Morgan Llewellyn and enjoyed it.
>                          ^^^^^^

>are you referring to _Red_Branch_ by Margaret LLewrllyn?

>*highly* recommended --- i've been waiting for someone to mention it!

>ok
>dpm
>-- 
>murphy@npri6.npri.com 602 Cameron St. Alexandria, VA 22314 (703) 683-9090

>              When every one is dead the Great Game is finished, not before.
>                              --- Hurree Babu, "Kim"

I was referring to _Bard_ by Morgan Llewellyn.  She has written a number of
things, but that novel and one short in a shared-world anthology are the only
things I have read of her work.

              Merry meet, merry part, merry meet again,
                               Br'anArthur

Queer, Peculiar, and Weird! :-)
From: steinarb@idt.unit.no (Steinar Bang)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
Subject: Re: Irish/Celtic Fantasy
Date: 13 Apr 92 13:42:55 GMT
Organization: Norwegian Institute of Technology, Trondheim, Norway

>>>>> On 10 Apr 92 13:43:45 GMT, andrew@mks.com (Andrew Hamilton-Wright) said:

> R.A. MacAvoys best book, IMHO, is _Tea With The Black Dragon_ (Irish+Chinese
>            approach toward computer piracy)

I really liked it. :-)

Particularily that scene where Long relaxes into the chair with a
volume of Knuth's "AoCP" and "Compilers Principles and Tools" (Get
that one?)

> WARNING! Avoid _Twisting The Rope_ (?sequel?) to TWTBD - poorly done, 
>            wandering plot, only redeemming feature is some character devel.

Agreed. Boring, actually.

Though you should really check out "The Grey Horse", by the same
author, featuring a Sidhe shape-shifter (a "puca" (sp?) )

- Steinar
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
From: tperreau@zia.aoc.nrao.edu (The Mad Scot)
Subject: Re: Irish/Celtic Fantasy
Organization: National Radio Astronomy Observatory, Socorro NM
Date: Wed, 15 Apr 92 02:19:51 GMT

In article <1992Apr14.220714.5346@ux1.cso.uiuc.edu> ba@mrcnext.cso.uiuc.edu (B.A. Davis-Howe) writes:
>murphy@npri6.npri.com (David P. Murphy) writes:
>
>>>I have read one thing by Morgan Llewellyn and enjoyed it.
>>                          ^^^^^^
>
>>are you referring to _Red_Branch_ by Margaret LLewrllyn?
>
>>*highly* recommended --- i've been waiting for someone to mention it!
>
>>ok
>>dpm
>>-- 
>>murphy@npri6.npri.com 602 Cameron St. Alexandria, VA 22314 (703) 683-9090
>
>>              When every one is dead the Great Game is finished, not before.
>>                              --- Hurree Babu, "Kim"
>
>I was referring to _Bard_ by Morgan Llewellyn.  She has written a number of
>things, but that novel and one short in a shared-world anthology are the only
>things I have read of her work.
>
>              Merry meet, merry part, merry meet again,
>                               Br'anArthur
>
>Queer, Peculiar, and Weird! :-)

Morgan Llewellyn has written several books based on either Irish myth
or on actual persons in Ireland.  The books that I that she has
written are:
		The Lion of Ireland
		Bard
		Druids
		The Red Branch
		The Isles of the Blessed
		Grania

All of which I highly recommend.


-- 
================================================================================
Tony Perreault, High Tech Babysitter & Nanny	tperreau@zia.aoc.nrao.edu
Array Operations, Very Large Array	      All opinions expressed are my
Socorro, NM				        own and not those of NRAO
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
From: s5223927@titan.ucc.umass.edu (Daniel Lescohier)
Subject: Re: Elspeth (Mercedes Lackey)
Organization: University of Massachusetts, Amherst
Date: Tue, 7 Apr 1992 03:49:32 GMT

In article <1992Apr05.090304.9159@kithrup.COM> 
sef@kithrup.COM (Sean Eric Fagan) writes:

>After rereading nearly all of the Valdemar-related books, I had a thought:
>is it possible that Elspeth is Vanyel reincarnated?  That would explain a
>few things, if he's been sticking around mucking with Valdemarian minds...

	I think that is very unlikely.  If Vanyel was reincarnated, I
think that the people living near the Forest of Sorrows would have
noticed.  And if you've read "Magic's Price" and "Winds of Fate," it
is pretty clear "who" is "mucking with Valdemarian minds:" and it's not
Vanyel.

	However, I think that it is pretty likely that Elspeth is a
descendent of Vanyel, through Jisa.


-- 
 Daniel Lescohier        | InterNet: s5223927@titan.ucs.umass.edu (until May)
 Univ. of Massachusetts  |---------------------------------------------------
 Amherst, MA (until May) | FidoNet:  1:101/138 (permament address; after May)
  [quote deleted]        |        (Daniel.Lescohier@f138.n101.z1.fidonet.org)
From: marco@EMAIL.NCSC.NAVY.MIL (Barbarisi)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
Subject: Stanislaw Lem Translations
Date: 10 Apr 92 17:52:24 GMT
From: emmayche@apple.com (Mark Hartman)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
Subject: CFD: rec.arts.sf.obit.asimov
Date: 16 Apr 92 15:22:19 GMT

Perhaps what we need to do is start a new group to keep obituaries, or
other postings concerning dead authors...

Then again, we'd probably wind up with a considerable portion of the
traffic cross-posted...
=====
Mark Hartman, N6BMO
emmayche@apple.com
From: Laurie Mann
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
Subject: Re: Isaac Asimov Dies...
Date: 7 Apr 92 12:04:36 GMT
Reply-To: lmann@vineland.pubs.stratus.com

John Sloan writes
>I would expect some Asimov retrospectives at the WorldCon in Orlando.
>It would be interesting to see perhaps panel discussions in the literary,
>academic, science and fannish program tracks.

That's what I hope, too.  I think it's highly likely.

* NeXT: lmann@vineland.pubs.stratus.com  GEnie,AOL: Laurie.Mann *
***    I guess we all have to fall apart a little, once in    ***
***   a while, in order to rebuild our dreams.  Tappan King   ***
From: eric@snark.thyrsus.com (Eric S. Raymond)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
Subject: Re: A little help, please
Date: 10 Apr 92 14:39:27 GMT

In <91EF65FAA02008E1@splava.cc.plattsburgh.edu> Raney Ellis wrote:
> HELP!  For some time now, I have been trying to find a story which I first
> read about 30+ years ago.  The story line deals with problems of
> information explosion, information storage, and indexing of information.  A
> future civilization takes the sum of knowledge and stores it with
> increasingly dense techniques, even down to impressions on electrons, or
> some such.  Their problem is one of retrieval, as the indexes and indexes
> to indexes,  ..... , become larger and larger.  They build a planet to
> contain everything, and the civilization collapses when the original drawer
> of information is lost.
> 
> Does anyone know of the title, or the author, or both?  I believe it to
> have been written in the mid- to late-'50's.  Thank you.

You're right; it was the 50s, the author was Arthur C. Clarke, and I'll
be damned if I can remember the title.  Can't find it in my library, sigh.
-- 
      Eric S. Raymond = eric@snark.thyrsus.com  (mad mastermind of TMN-Netnews)
From: klaus@diku.dk (Klaus Ole Kristiansen)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
Subject: Re: Saberhagen's Book of Swords
Date: 8 Apr 92 08:27:06 GMT
Organization: Department of Computer Science, U of Copenhagen

sdrumm@mcs213j.cs.umr.edu (Scott Drumm) writes:

>>Now that I am off of my soap box, perhaps someone can recommend something new
>>for me to read.  So far, my favorite author has to be Tolkien.

>>something that is challenging with a good plot, more towards the fantasy end of
>>sf, and with REAL characters and REAL settings (in terms of development).
>>am getting tired of reading my books over and over!!!!

>Ok, ye asked for it...Her are a few of my favorites, grouped into three 
>categories and ranked in order of preference:

>	High (Tolkien-style) Fantasy:
>		The Lord of the Rings (naturally)
>		The Riftwar Saga (Raymond E. Feist)
Tolkien style, but far from Tolkien quality.
>		The Elric Sagas (Michael Moorcock)

I am not sure what the first poster means by setting. Elric's
world has a very definite "feel", but NO geography. When MM
needs a city, a country or some wonder , he just throws it in.

>	Timeless, Relaxing, All-Time Favorites:
>		The Books of Vladimir Taltos (Steven Brust)

yes, yes, YES. 


If you don't mind the lack of geography, I strongly
recommend the flat earth series by Tanith Lee

Night's Master
Death's Master
Delusion's Master
Delirium's Mistress
Night's Sorceries

The first two are among the very best books I have ever read, the
third is not nearly as good. The two last ones are considerably
better, they are very good, but not quite as good as the first two.

Klaus O K
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written,rec.arts.sf.movies