From: danaf@bray1a.its.rpi.edu (Frank R. Dana Jr.)
Subject: Re: COMMODORE - HERE'S A CLUE
Keywords: moan, gripe, bitch
Reply-To: danaf@rpi.edu
Organization: Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute, Troy, NY.
Date: Sun, 27 Sep 1992 02:36:39 GMT

In article <35393@cbmvax.commodore.com>, grr@cbmvax.commodore.com (George Robbins) writes:
|> In article <1992Sep24.231339.8882@clipper.ingr.com> kontos@clipper.ingr.com (Thorne Kontos) writes:

|> > 1) Minimum CPU in any of your systems ... 68030. If a company like
|> >    Atari can follow Apple's lead, then so should you. 
|> 
|> Interesting notion.  Should we just stop selling A500's and A600's
|> in favor of a model with an '030 that retails for $100-$200 more
|> as our low end.  Does that make sense or should we both provide a
|> higher performance model and keep the low end units until such time
|> as the marketplace tells us that 16-bits doesn't sell at any price-point?

YES! Bloody hell, Y-E-S!!!! Don't stop selling the A600, but put at LEAST a 
68020 into it. And stop selling that stupid no-hard-drive option. Computers just
don't COST $400 anymore. The Amiga can still be the best value for the money 
without being the LAST under $500 computer! Even INFLATION should have brought
prices up over that range by now.

The marketplace will never tell you that 16-bit machines don't sell, especially
not when they're as cheap as the A500/600. But sometimes, the dealer has to 
take the advantage.

This little quandary (sp?) reminds me of the old problem with 9600+ baud modems.
Way back when, 3 or 4 years ago when they were just starting to push into the
consumer market, nobody wanted to go out and buy a 9600. The users didn't want
them, because none of their BBSs supported them anyway. The SysOps didn't want
them, because none of their users could take advantage of the higher speeds
anyway. When a few far-sighted SysOps went out and bought their HSTs, the market
really took off. Users started buying them, and then more SysOps installed them,
and then MORE users bought them, and et cetera. Sometimes, the thrust for change
has to come from the suppliers, not the end-users. If Commodore would stop
selling 68000 Amigas, it would not kill their market. It would just mean that
more people would be forced to buy the higher-performance machine instead of,
as some people buy, the "cheapest one around". Then, we'd ALL benefit.

|> >  4) STOP ALIENIATING THIRD PARTY SUPPORT...
|> >     A sale by them means a sale of another Amiga...
|> >     How long will it take before an Amiga 4000 Video Toaster is 
|> >     produced? Helping out third party vendors helps your sales.
|> 
|> Third party support is a good thing, but it's only one factor when
|> it comes to designing new systems. Our priority is to keep the systems
|> competitive.  We like to leave niches where 3-rd parties can add
|> value and make money, but they have to be willing to advance/invest
|> in new products as we move along.

It should be a _M_A_J_O_R_ factor, tho... without support, a computer is useless
as anything more than a doorstop.

|> >  5) ADVERTISE! Atari is spending $60 million dollars to roll out
|> >     the Falcon. (Source San Jose Mercury News) The new sci-fi
|> >     series Babylon 5 seems a good place to start. 
|> 
|> $60M - this would be pretty impressive considering the hole that
|> Atari is in - sure it wasn't "up to $60M"?

What is COMMODORE spending to advertise the NEW Amigas, tho? How about the line
in general? 

<And please, PLEASE don't bring back Stevie!!!!!>    8)

|> >  6) A4000 needs immediate work before market release. Sure it has
|> >     great new graphics, but where is the improved sound? You can't
|> >     tout it as a multimedia machine if you are using yesteryear's
|> >     technology.
|> 
|> It's been released.  It's a considerable improvement over the A3000
|> and is extensible (via slots) by either CBM or 3-rd party products
|> to address many of what you consider deficiencies, right?

But all of what you PUT IN (HD drives, more colors) had already been done by
third parties, and much better in my opinion! What's the point of putting out
a new computer unless it's better than everything else out there?????

(I agree that HD drives were a necessity, and I'm REALLY glad you decided to
include them, and the new colors are nice to have, tho no better than ANY other
computer out there (including third-party upgraded Amigas...) but it's not
enough, IMHO, to justify a new release, with a new model number)

|> > Author's note:
|> >                      If this post sounds like something you
|> >                      might have read here, you are probably
|> >                      right. Most of the above came from people
|> >                      that post here frequently, some die-hard
|> >                      Amiga addicts. If you aren't going to treat 
|> >                      us right, then we will go elsewhere.
|> >                      And your sales will suffer from our loss.
|> 
|> You really have to address whether your "treat us right" is realistic.
|> If based on expectations that aren't in line with industry and previous
|> Commodore practices, think harder.  If you can't objectively assess the
|> new products because of expectations based on rumors, opinions or
|> exposure to the hypercritical "advocacy" here, think harder...

I'm making my assessments based on the 6 pages of specs released by Commodore
after the World of Commodore in Pasadena. Is that acceptable?   8)

-- 
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=======Amiuser============Frank R. Dana, Jr.============Doc Ami=======     
--------My opinions rarely reflect those of any sane person,----------
	   living, dead, or undead... that's gonna CHANGE.