HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: thaaang@odin.unomaha.edu (John Dorrance)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: those problem hets
Date: 21 Jul 92 09:52:04 GMT
Organization: University of Nebraska at Omaha

tdober@llnl.gov writes:

>In article <thaaang.711627746@odin>, thaaang@odin.unomaha.edu (John Dorrance)
>writes:

>Wait a minute. I think that you may be painting things with too broad a
>brush in this section. Or perhaps I define the "baby cult" differently
>than you do.

Doesn't look like you do. I think I was pretty sloppy in this section
because I'm not really sure *what* I think about Tim's problems with
the use of 'breeder' (he's disagreeing! Mutiny in the cabal! Jesus,
what am I to do?), and am trying to nail down something that hasn't
coalesced enough to get nailed down properly. The fact that bis can
have kids with their beloved(s) sets them apart in a big way from GLs.
I just don't know what to make of bisexuals; I'm trying to get my
understanding of the straight and gay/lez 'halves' to coalesce into
one being in my mind, which is taking some doing. Perhaps I should
start reading soc.bi (and still read motss? God, I'd have to stop
working!)...

>It is possible to have a child without feeling that it is your sole
>purpose in life. I suspect that Tim could father a dozen children without
>being a member of the "baby cult".

I agree that Tim is a far cry from a potential baby factoryworker. I
should have just used 'parent' instead of 'baby cultist'. (A dozen?
Now *that* would be pushing it!)

>TDO (who realizes that Tim doesn't need defending, but was sufficiently
>     bothered by the above section to sound off anyway.)

I'm sorry if I pissed anyone off...

--
John Dorrance    ** Disco Diva y Flamenco Chico **    thaaang@odin.unomaha.edu

		I always thought of you as my brick wall
		   Built like an angel, six feet tall.
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: manz@ee.ualberta.ca (Brett {Druid Queen} Manz)
Subject: Re: Lost Language of Cranes question
Organization: University Of Alberta, Edmonton Canada
Date: Tue, 28 Jul 1992 20:13:37 GMT

In <1992Jul28.060638.23993@reed.edu> nelson@reed.edu (Nelson Minar) writes:

>I've watched the Lost Language of Cranes twice now, and I really liked
>it. I experienced a feeling of gayspace, a thing I'm only now getting
>used, and never before on television! I sat there watching this
>soap-opera like show for 90 minutes, only the characters' lives were
>actually relevant to me. It seemed so natural that I only realized
>later that the event was unusual.

>There's one niggling little thing that's getting to me, though. What
>do the various language vignettes have to do with the story of the
>family?

>The only thing I could think is that there was a common theme of loss
>of private language in the twin and crane parables. Was this supposed
>to parallel a "lost language" between father and son, who never
>communicated on the potential basis of their shared homosexuality?

>Is this theme better expressed in the book? I hope my guess is wrong,
>for the parallel I'm trying to make doesn't really work.
>-- 
>                __
>nelson@reed.edu \/                  Where do you conceal the gun in a bikini?

Well, I saw them as metaphors for the life of the father.  The twins
expressing the idea that acceptance only comes from conformity and
the `crane child' as mimicing the examples of the most obvious
social patterns.
-- 
---------------------------------+-------------------------------------
 My opinions are my own.         |  You can't be proud of who you are
 The truth belongs to everyone.  |  if you're ashamed of what you are.
 Civil Rights Are For Queers!    |  Cruise Men, Not Missiles! - anon
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: michael@resonex.com (Michael Bryan)
Subject: Re: We *do* recruit after all!
Organization: Resonex Inc., Sunnyvale CA
Date: Mon, 27 Jul 1992 06:41:36 GMT

In article <thaaang.712230309@cwis> thaaang@cwis.unomaha.edu (John Dorrance) writes:
>in school who later turned out to be queer. So, has anyone else
>found out they were in a queer couple before they were out of the
>closet even to themselves? I really find the thought interesting...

I "seriously" dated three girls in high school and college.  Two of
them are lesbians.

The first one was in high school, during which time I knew I had
feelings for guys, but I was in the phase of wanting to be straight.
We lasted about six months.  She found her current lover three years
later in college.  [An ex-friend once had the gall to ask her if she
"turned gay" because she had dated me.  Geesh.]

The other one was a woman I dated in college.  At that time, I knew I
was gay, and ok with it, but was still interested in dating Susan
anyway.  It started as a double date, with my roommate and her
roommate being the other couple, and Susan and I dated for about two
months.  About three months later, the person who introduced us (Mary
Ann) came up to me mortified, and said that she had just found out
that Susan and her roommate were lovers!  I just chuckled, and figured
it was appropriate.  By that time, I had lost contact with Susan, so
she had no idea that I was also gay.  At least, not then.

Two years later I was dating a guy, and in talking to him, I found out
that he was living with Susan.  Swearing him to secrecy, we arranged
for me to spend the next weekend at his place.  Susan knew "Michael"
was coming over, but was led to believe it was someone else.  I'll
always remember the sight when I walked in with John that night ---
Susan was sitting in a chair, drinking a beer and looking through
the latest issue of Playboy.  We walked in, and both said "Hi Susan!"
She looked up, saw me, and beer went flying halfway across the room...
It was a wonderful reunion!

:-)

-- 
Michael Bryan        michael@resonex.com                     |     ,_,
"Pretenders I meet are making a trail along the way.         |    /oo \
They say that they know how to show me a path to guide my    |    <>__|
way to truth..." --- David York, "The Quiet of a Candle"     |    |  U|
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: jakec@ralvmm.vnet.ibm.com (Jake Coughlin)
Subject: Re: I HATE GAY MEN.
Originator: jakec@ralvmm.vnet.ibm.com
Date: Tue, 28 Jul 92 21:06:21 GMT
Organization: IBM T. J. Watson Research

dauber@sgi.com (Jeff Dauber):
> Sounds like it should be published by "selfhating queers".

i didn't get the impression that the author is "selfhating."
rather, i got the impression that he is a young gay man,
having trouble identifying with and connecting to the gay
men in his community.  maybe "selfhate" is his problem,
but i don't see enough in the essay to reach that conclusion.

> That is yet another load of false stereotypes.  

was it?  you'll have to provide more ammunition than one
loaded sentence if you're going to debate a loaded essay.
the essay was extremely slanted and one-dimensional, but
there was a lot in it that i identified with.

maybe you should try to read it with the perspective that
the author doesn't live in SF or NYC.  it's my guess that
he doesn't have the same community you do.
-- 
Jason Coughlin ( jakec@ralvmm.vnet.ibm.com )
Queer Without A Cause!
"I find myself suddenly in the world, and I recognize that I have one
right alone: that of demanding human behavior of the other." -- Fanon
Newsgroups: soc.motss,alt.politics.homosexuality
From: chrisa@extro.ucc.su.OZ.AU (C. G. Albone)
Subject: Re: Christians & Homosexuals: Who are the bigots?
Organization: Uni Computing Service, Uni of Sydney, Australia
Date: Mon, 27 Jul 1992 09:27:15 GMT

In article <92207.235148IO81409@MAINE.MAINE.EDU> IO81409@MAINE.MAINE.EDU (Ailsa N.T. Murphy) writes:
>thereby giving the christians MORE ammunition against the gay community.
>yeah, right.

How So may I ask?

Hmm... If there is no bigotry within the community, then what have we to fear
of such a talk? If there is, then doesnt that just highlight a problem with
the way things are? While I can understand GBL anti-christian sentiment (I have
felt the heat from "christians" too...) can GBL anti-christian bigotry
be justified? More to the point, can it be justified when the person that
receives the said heat is gay, bi or lesbian? 

I am inclined toward the view that bigotry in all its forms is damaging,
to the people that are abused, the abusers, and to humanity as a whole. If
we are guilty of exactly the crime that we are claiming of society, and of
the Church, then how are we any better? Are we in a position to point a finger?

Maybe I am an idealist.....
>
>                                      -ailsa
>It's not what you got, it's what you give           _______________
>It ain't the life you want, it's the life you live. \    DYKE    /
>It's not what you got, it's what you give             \ PRIDE! /
>And it ain't what it's not, but what it is.             \    /
>(IO81409@maine.maine.edu or wang.com!ailanth!ailsa)       \/

---
Chris.
From: henry@ADS.COM (Henry Mensch)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: *BIG* *RED* *JOBS*
Date: 28 Jul 92 18:50:29 GMT
Organization: Advanced Decision Systems; a div of Booz, Allen & Hamilton

tchrist@convex.COM (Tom Christiansen) wrote: 
->From the keyboard of henry@ADS.COM (Henry Mensch):
->
->:* Unix tools experience (csh, make, awk or perl,
->
->The csh is not a Unix tool.  It's an abomination.

golly, beav ... when was the last time we heard this?

*yawn* :)

--
# henry mensch / booz, allen & hamilton, inc.  / <henry@ads.com>
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: johnf@uhheph.phys.hawaii.edu (John Flanagan)
Subject: Xerographic reproduction (was: Re: G/L Youth Suicide)
Organization: University of Hawaii, Dept. of Physics & Astronomy
Date: Wed, 29 Jul 1992 20:11:57 GMT

In article <17314@autodesk.COM> booter@Autodesk.COM (Elaine Richards) writes:

>See, there is this factor in the equation called "parents". Many
>parents want their kids to be like themselves. Some wrong-headed folk
>view themselves as a form of biological photocopy machine who believe
>that their lives will be enriched by little duplicates of themselves.
>It feeds the ego in a warm and fuzzy way. In order to continue the
>process, the little darlings must photocopy themselves also.

And some parents want grandchildren because they think they'll make
better grandparents than they did parents.  My father is getting
pretty nervous on this score -- my sister and I are mostly dating
MOTSSs, and my brother, while straight, shows no signs of settling
down any time soon.  It is no use pointing out to Dad that becoming a
grandparent willonly make him feel older...

--John
-- 
John Flanagan                          ||
johnf@uhheph.phys.hawaii.edu           ||"Don't worry, honey, 
U. of Hawaii, Dept. of Physics & Astro.|| our skirts are clean."
2505 Correa Rd., Honolulu, HI 96822    ||
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: thaaang@odin.unomaha.edu (John Dorrance)
Subject: Re: about SF gay pride
Organization: University of Nebraska at Omaha
Date: Tue, 21 Jul 1992 09:37:00 GMT

henry@ADS.COM (Henry Mensch) writes:

>max@athena.mit.edu (Max Meredith Vasilatos) wrote: 
>->... Once you
>->pass all that, you get a letter telling you to report
>->to the show wearing something solid-colored and bright.

>bring out the *BRIGHT* *RED* *PUMPS* (but you'd have to wear them on
>your ears for this occasion).

Nuh-uh! Keep 'em on your feet and contort, baby, contort!!!

--
John Dorrance    ** Disco Diva y Flamenco Chico **    thaaang@odin.unomaha.edu

		I always thought of you as my brick wall
		   Built like an angel, six feet tall.
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: hutch@hutch (Stephen Hutchison)
Subject: Re: There was this sign in the window...
Keywords: @$#!% NewsWatcher bug...
Organization: Intel Corp., Hillsboro, Oregon
Date: Fri, 24 Jul 92 17:28:47 GMT

In article <Xa4DoB1w164w@penn.Gwinnett.COM> bfbear@penn.Gwinnett.COM (Penn Collins) writes:
+dyer@spdcc.com (Steve Dyer) writes:
+> In article <1992Jul22.180155.27529@intelhf.hf.intel.com> hutch@hutch writes:
+> >Hutch (my brothers are both truck drivers)
+> 
+> Do you have their phone numbers handy?
+
+Zing!!!
+(wishing I had said that....(and tried in vain to think of something t'riffically
+pithy to say and failed...)
+
+growf?

Casey's a total phobe.  Allen's doing long-haul and thus has no phone number,
but he's also as completely het as anyone I've ever met, so t'wouldn't do any
good even if he did have one.

Hutch (musing on genetics)
Newsgroups: soc.motss,talk.politics.misc,alt.individualism,alt.activism
From: billn@hpcvaac.cv.hp.com (bill nelson)
Subject: Re: On Banning Private Discrimination
Organization: Hewlett-Packard Company, Corvallis, Oregon USA
Date: Tue, 28 Jul 1992 01:30:46 GMT

pjm@anegada.sps.mot.com (Patrick J. McGuinness) writes:
: >>
: >I though they were Republicans.
: 
: Uh, the Democrats control both Houses of Congress, the majority of
: Statehouses and Governships, as well as most of the mayoral offices
: of our largest cities.
: Since they control most elective offices, it is fairer to say the
: Democrats are in control.  (And yes, they are f***ing up).
: 
: I am sure you know this, but since I read the article about how only
: 1 in 5 of 18-25 year-old voters know the Democrats control Congress,
: I get worried about how such blanket statements might get interpreted.

Yes, they control congress. However, how many vetoes have been presidential
vetoes have been overridden in the last 12 years? None? One?

Both major parties are fucking the country up. They would both like to get
the population totally under control, for one reason or another.

Bill
From: "paul bobbitt" <paul.bobbitt@canrem.com>
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: christians & homosexu
Date: 31 Jul 92 14:17:23 EST
Reply-To: "paul bobbitt" <paul.bobbitt@canrem.com>
Distribution: soc
Organization: Canada Remote Systems

CG> I guess the subject line is going to generate some attention,
CG>and I guess that is the purpose. Actually, it is the title of a talk
CG>that will be given in the gay group at Sydney Uni in a couple of weeks
CG>time. One of the main focuses of this discussion is to be on the amount
CG>of trouble that gay christians have in being accepted, not only by the
CG>churches, but also by the gay community (so far as a community exists).

I must admit that I have never experienced any trouble because of being
Christian within the Gay community.  Rather, I've found the community
to be overwhelmingly supportive of people from all groups.  One of the
"heros" of the Gay Pride Parade in Toronto this year was Rev. Ferry.
As you may know, Rev. Ferry was removed from his position as pastor of
an Anglican church in Canada because of the fact that he was gay.  When
the people along the parade route recognized him, they cheered.

If there are any problems with Christians in the Gay community, I expect
it stems from the fact that these Gay Christians bring their apparently
intrinsic ability to judge others into a community that does not welcome
judgement in any form.

Far better to follow the example of the Metropolitain Community Church of
Toronto.  This group of Christians proclaims nothing but universal
acceptence of all people, and the universal love of God.  I've never
yet heard of a Gay person upset with them.  How the Fundies feel about
them...  well, that's a different story.

BTW, this is my first Internet post, and it's through a gateway.  If you
get this message, could you email a response to paul.bobbitt@canrem.com?

Thanks,

Paul D. Bobbitt
---
  DeLuxe 1.25 #7722  >>>  2QT2BSTR8  <<<   70733,2234@compuserve.com
--
Canada Remote Systems  - Toronto, Ontario/Detroit, MI
World's Largest PCBOARD System - 416-629-7000/629-7044
Newsgroups: soc.motss,talk.politics.misc,alt.individualism,alt.activism
From: veal@utkvm1.utk.edu (David L. Veal)
Subject: Re: On Banning Private Discrimination
Organization: University of Tennessee Division of Continuing Education
Date: Thu, 23 Jul 1992 22:18:55 GMT

In article <nkla140@fido.asd.sgi.com> dauber@sgi.com (Jeff Dauber) writes:

>>  As far as I can tell, being a member of the powerful elites doesn't have
>>  much to do with one's gender, race, or sexual orientation. It has a lot to
>>  do with some people believing the idea that they themselves are fit to
>>  rule, and no-one else is.

>It has a lot more to do with the power structure within a country.  If a 
>black woman ran for president of the US and she was clearly the most qualified,
>would she get elected?  I doubt it.

     If you happen to find *anybody* who is "clearly" qualified for 
President, give me a call.

>FWA

===========================================================================
|David Veal  PA146008@utkvm1.utk.edu  University of Tennessee             |  
|                                     Division of Continuing Education    |
| Statistics are any data which can be twisted to support your posititon  | 
===========================================================================
From: stevenso@Apple.COM (David Stevenson)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: Snow (absolutely no motss relevance)
Date: 22 Jul 92 22:43:22 GMT
Organization: Apple Computer Inc., Cupertino, CA

broughton@admin.usask.ca notes:
>
>After all, almost every English word if put in quotes is a quotation
>from the Oxford English Dictionary.

Well, there're worse places to quote from.
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: jfh@netcom.com (Jack Hamilton)
Subject: Re: HIV- cases of full blown AIDS?
Date: Sun, 26 Jul 92 06:06:39 GMT
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services (408 241-9760 guest)

In article <1992Jul25.231458.4287@queernet.org> rogerk@queernet.org (Roger 
B.A. Klorese) writes:
>In article <8bgmnsj.jfh@netcom.com> jfh@netcom.com (Jack Hamilton) writes:
>>James Curran from the CDC pointed out two other things:
>>
>>2) If they're not HIV+, they don't have AIDS, by definition. 
>
>This is a ludicrous example of bending a definition to be self-serving.
>AIDS is an observable syndrome, not a specific infection.

No.  AIDS is an observable syndrome, PLUS the presence of HIV.  Legally and
scientifically, I mean.  No one can stop you from using whatever you want,
of course. 

>HIV antibody
>tests detect HIV infection, not whether the individual has a deficiency
>of the immune system.  Opportunistic infections *are* the definition of
>AIDS; the only form of AIDS the CDC wishes to acknowledge is one which
>correlates with HIV infection.

I think the distinction between AIDS and AIDS-like illnesses caused by some
other agent(s) is a reasonable distinction.  HIV and <whatever else> are
likely to be transmitted somewhat different, to have different modes of
progression, and to be treated differently.  

I certainly can't defend the CDC against charges that it has failed to
react as it should, but I think it's a good idea for it to insist on
unambiguous nomenclature.

-- 

-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Jack Hamilton   jfh@netcom.com   P. O. Box 281107   SF, CA   94128-1107
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: dewey@centerline.com (Devan F. Dewey)
Subject: Re: Do You Remember any Gay/Lesbian Characters on TV Series?
Followup-To: soc.motss,rec.arts.tv,rec.arts.tv.uk,rec.arts.tv.soaps,soc.bi,alt.politics.homosexuality
Organization: CenterLine Software, Inc.
Date: Tue, 21 Jul 1992 16:19:09 GMT

In article <1992Jul21.154700.8340@CS.ORST.EDU>, aj@CS.ORST.EDU (AJ) wrote:
> 
> 
> Roseanne's boss on "Roseanne" was gay (played by ....what was his name???
> Martin Moll maybe?).
> 
> -aj

Let's not forget Kyle, played by David Lacher, who was in two episodes of
Beverly Hills 90210.

-Devan

                             
               Devan F. Dewey | Senior Systems Analyst
          CenterLine Software | dewey@centerline.com
            10 Fawcett Street | Leme esplain - no dere is
          Cambridge, MA 02138 | too much. Leme sum up.
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: twpierce@amhux1.amherst.edu (Tim Pierce)
Subject: Re: British Pronounciation
Organization: Amherst College, Amherst MA
Date: Thu, 23 Jul 1992 15:03:00 GMT

In article <1992Jul21.231444.3167@macc.wisc.edu> anderson@macc.wisc.edu (Jess Anderson) writes:

>Then there's the famous Dallasites, sisters named Hogg: Ima
>and Yura (truth, I swear; I was even introduced to Ima
>once).

Well, I'm sure you weren't introduced to Ura, certainly.  She didn't
exist.

-- 
____ Tim Pierce                / "You mean there are TWO of you, Pierce?
\  / twpierce@amherst.edu      /  God help us all."
 \/ (BITnet: TWPIERCE@AMHERST) /   -- Major Charles Emerson Winchester III
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: twpierce@amhux1.amherst.edu (Tim Pierce)
Subject: Re: the b-word
Organization: Amherst College, Amherst MA
Date: Wed, 22 Jul 1992 15:14:28 GMT

In article <92202.193652IO81409@MAINE.MAINE.EDU> Ailsa N.T. Murphy <IO81409@MAINE.MAINE.EDU> writes:

>i am a breeder.  i bucked a lot of pressure to have an abortion or
>to give her up for adoption to keep my daughter, and i love her dearly.
>if the gay and lesbian community cannot deal with that, i guess the
>gay and lesbian community can just fuck itself.

Gosh, Ailsa, you just don't know what you're talking about.  I mean,
"breeder" is used only for certain heterosexuals, and it doesn't mean
YOU, so if you feel insulted by it, why, your consciousness just needs
raising, that's all.

Really.

-- 
____ Tim Pierce                / "You mean there are TWO of you, Pierce?
\  / twpierce@amherst.edu      /  God help us all."
 \/ (BITnet: TWPIERCE@AMHERST) /   -- Major Charles Emerson Winchester III
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: jakec@ralvmm.vnet.ibm.com (Jake Coughlin)
Subject: Re: the b-word
Originator: jakec@ralvmm.vnet.ibm.com
Date: Tue, 21 Jul 92 19:24:45 GMT
Organization: IBM T. J. Watson Research

ry@cbnewsl.cb.att.com (ryerson.schwark):
> While I would definitely prefer to see more lesbian mothers than bigot
> mothers, I'd rather see less mothers all around.

well, i would definitely prefer to see more mothers who adopted than
more biological mothers, whether they were lesbian or straight.

ry, would you like to raise a brat with me?
-- 
Jason Coughlin ( jakec@ralvmm.vnet.ibm.com )
Queer Without A Cause!
"I find myself suddenly in the world, and I recognize that I have one
right alone: that of demanding human behavior of the other." -- Fanon
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: thaaang@cwis.unomaha.edu (John Dorrance)
Subject: Re: A New Boom and Bust Theory
Organization: University of Nebraska at Omaha
Date: Fri, 31 Jul 1992 09:22:45 GMT

adolphso@mizar.usc.edu (adolphson) writes:

>In any case, the
>only thing that interests me about women's breasts is the skill
>with which they are draped with fabric.

Oh, I don't know. I was at work today and a girl walked in wearing one
of those usually-annoying 'Hypercolor' shirts. She had large breasts,
and I thought it was neat how the cloth covering the breasts was such
a different color than the stuff between the breasts and elsewhere. I
didn't realize they were so warm.

--
John Dorrance    ** Disco Diva y Flamenco Chico **    thaaang@odin.unomaha.edu

		I always thought of you as my brick wall
		   Built like an angel, six feet tall.
Newsgroups: soc.motss