From: bloc1469@ee.ee.uwm.edu (Gregory R Block)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
Subject: Re: Does reading this group make you depressed? The story of a victim.
Date: 1 Jan 1993 18:46:33 GMT
Organization: Electrical Engineering Dept. University of Wisconsin - Milwaukee
NNTP-Posting-Host: 129.89.2.33

In article <C05vFC.IIv@news.iastate.edu> barrett@iastate.edu (Marc N. Barrett) writes:
>   No, they are development tools.  Pretty simple concept to me, really.  Just
>because something isn't a productivity application doesn't mean it is a game.

Three of the ones listed, AmigaTeX, CygnusEd/any other editor, and
Real3d are NOT "development tools".  AmigaTeX is as much an
application as WP 5.1.  Programs like Caligari Professional and
Journeyman compete with well known programs like Alias and Wavefront.

>   Word processors, spreadsheets, databases, desktop publishing programs, 
>drawing programs, etc.  My definition of "productivity" software includes
>software that allows a computer to be used as a tool for the composition of
>documents, reports, presentations, and other forms of media.  Basically, 
>productivity software is software that allows you to actually create 
>something substantial, something that actually exists.  I don't put the
>development tools into this category because they are most often used in the
>development of software, and not in the composition of media that has a
>form, an existance outside the computer.

That's pretty thick, but let me give you some application examples
that are VERY high quality, and will only get better.

Real3d 2.0 will have features seen in few renderers on ANY platform.
LightWave competes with some of the most capable platforms from ANY
	system.
Caligari Professional is the SAME way.
Journeyman, though not as polished, has buku features.
ScalaMM is a damn good authoring program.
Distant Suns kicks ass.
DynaCADD is a damn good CAD program, and is available on many systems.
ProVector by Taliesin, Inc, is a damn good drawing program.
Art Expression, though lacking a bit in features, is a fledgling
	program that promises some power.
ProDraw is the most matured structured drawing program out of the
	three, and is very good.
ADPro and ImageMaster are also "productivity programs".  And damn
	good.
X-Cad and X-Shell were given very good reviews in the CAD area.
SuperBase Pro is a very good database.

>   Is SuperBase even still supported?  I don't think it is.  But even if it
>is still being supported, does it have the up-to-date features available on
>databases on Mac or IBM, such as dynamic-linking (called "hotlinking")?

Instead of blowing hot air, call and ask.

>   Typical Amigoid mentality.  Belittle Mac and IBM versions of the few 
>software applications that are better on the Amiga than on the Mac or IBM, 
>but completely excuse the mediocrity of Amiga applications that are not as
>good as their counterparts on Mac or IBM. 

I'm not.  WordWorth 2.0 is a VERY, VERY good WP.  Fortunately, it's
not enough to make me switch from TeX.

>   If a morphing program for the Mac had 99% of the features needed by
>low-end video users, but was not nearly as powerful as a similar Amiga 
>morphing package, would you excuse the Mac morphing package as being 
>completely adequate?  No, you would flame it as being complete inadequate.

The graphics game is LIKE that, though.  It's not like a WP where you
can get by with less features by doing it by hand.  In the rendering
scene, if your renderer doesn't have lens-flares, then you just can't
DO lens-flares.  Period.  There's no inbetween in the graphics game.

>   You are so short-sighted it's a wonder you don't bump into walls (or do
>you?).  Advanced features in a word processor are often of the kind that you
>don't notice them unless they are not there.  For instance, a few weeks ago
>somebody was complaining about some graphical word processors messing up on
>the kerning of fonts on the printed output.  MicroSoft Word for the Mac has
>built-in a small facility for adjusting the kerning of the output.  Most 
>people would not use this facility all the time, but it is pretty damn nice 
>to have when the automatic output isn't quite right.  Another nice facility
>of MicroSoft Word is the built-in mini typesetting language.  It isn't 
>exactly TeX, and most people would not use this facility very often either, 
>but it is also very nice to have once in a while to print an occasional
>mathematical formula.  I could list literally dozens of other examples.

But those are things ONE _CAN_ get by without.  See?  Some of what you
mentioned, the kerning, I believe, is available.  And if I want to do
typesetting, there's only one package to do it in, period, and that's
TeX.  Using a mini-language in Word might work for a few itty-bitty
things, but when you're doing REAL stuff, you need a full-fledged
typesetter.  And don't say that the average user can't do it.  As an
average freshman in EE, I learned how to use TeX.  It's paid off.

>   No I don't, but I wouldn't touch an Amiga spreadsheet with a ten-foot
>pole.  I know people who have tried composing the figures of business reports
>with Amiga spreadsheets, and they did nothing but complain about them.

And you've never used one yourself.  Your friends have probably never
used SuperBase Pro 4.0, a damn solid relational database.  You sure
YOU don't bump into walls?  Perhaps entire buildings?

>   Wrong.  I despise MicroSoft as a company overall, probably almost as much
>as you do.  But I am willing to admit that MicroSoft Word for the Mac is a
>damn good word processor.  I admit that I don't like the overpowering nature
>of MS Word 5.0, though.  I like MS Word 4.0 better.  It has most of the
>features of 5.0, without cluttering up the screen as much.

I won't give you my opinion of word processor's.  They're all too weak
for my needs, and I found that no matter which package I used, there
was something I wanted to do that wasn't in the one I was using.  And
I've used MS Word for the Mac, and a few windoze packages.

Greg

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