HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: esther@verdix.com (Esther Lumsdon)
Subject: Re: wedding etiquette
Organization: Verdix Corp.
Date: Thu, 23 Jul 1992 14:59:38 GMT

ellon@ADS.COM (Ellon St. Croix) writes:


> carroll@cs.uiuc.edu (Alan M. Carroll) writes:
> liam@durie.amigans.gen.nz (Liam Greenwood) writes:
> vickiemc@isi.edu (Vickie McCorkendale) writes:
>>> >This is the first modern rule of etiquette dealing with thank you notes:
>>> >YOU CANNOT USE THE COMPUTER, DO NOT PRINT OUT AND MAIL YOUR THANK YOU NOTES.
>>> >YOU MUST HANDWRITE AND ADDRESS EACH INDIVIDUAL NOTE.
>>> [Liam disagrees]
>>
>>I have to go with Liam on this one. My wife and I did all of our thank
>>you letters with a computer (LaTeX for the technophilic). Because of
>>this, we were able to include much more than the normal amount of
>>information in the letter, things such as our new apartment, plans for
>>the future, etc. In addition, we put personal things in, so each
>>letter constied of a blend of stock and specific text. We had a number
>>of people get word back to use that they _really_ liked them, since
>>they were far more informative yet still had a personal touch.

>   I have to go with Vickie on this.  Being a recent bride myself, 
>   I can guarentee that if I EVER received a computer generated thank 
>   you note for a wedding/shower gift, that couple would NEVER receive
>   another gift from me.  If I took the time to go out and buy
>   something especially for them, or even if I just wrote them a
>   check, them they DAMN WELL better sit down and hand write me a 
>   personalized thank you note. 

My husband and I compromised on following the etiquette rules.  We hand-wrote
the names on the inner envelopes of the wedding invitations.  We printed
address labels (using one of our computers) using a colored ribbon which
matched a color in the invitation closely.  We took the address list with
us on the honeymoon and sent postcards to lots of the people who had come
to our wedding.  We sent maps and a "wedding newsletter" with information
in a separate mailing from the invitations.  The Postal Service thwarted me;
the stamp rate went up 2 months before we mailed invitations, and they
had no Love stamps available for our invitations :-(  Not one of the wedding
planning books covered that!

We spent about 2 weeks hand-writing thankyou notes for the gifts.  We made
it fun, and it was cozy, togetherness time.
-- 
------ Esther Lumsdon   employed by, not speaking for, Verdix Corporation
     It's nice to be important, but it's more important to be nice.
  esther@verdix.com  or  esther%verdix.com@uunet.uu.net   
Newsgroups: soc.couples
From: jjj@mits.mdata.fi (Joni Jarvenkyla)
Subject: Re: waiting 'til marriage
Organization: Microdata Oy, Helsinki, Finland
Date: Thu, 30 Jul 1992 18:16:55 GMT

In article <1992Jul22.050109.13003@murdoch.acc.Virginia.EDU> jlb6s@poe.acc.Virginia.EDU (Jennifer Leigh Bancroft) writes:
>have already had sex.  By the way, is it worth the wait?  I

Sparing sex for marriage sounds like sparing yourself being illiterate
by not going to school.

-- 
jjj@mits.mdata.fi     Thanks, Life; thanks, Death    And the other me:
jjj@niksula.hut.fi    for freeing me from self       Jenny L{rv{joki
Newsgroups: soc.couples
From: jlb6s@poe.acc.Virginia.EDU (Jennifer Leigh Bancroft)
Subject: waiting 'til marriage
Organization: University of Virginia
Date: Wed, 22 Jul 1992 05:01:09 GMT

I will be a third-year undergrad next year, and my boyfriend
and I have been "dating exclusively" for 17 months now.  We
haven't had sex yet, though intensely attracted to each other
in every way, because we bot want to wait until we're married
(to each other or someone else).  Instead, we've come up with
numerous ways to satisfy our desire together..ahem. ;) Anyway,
I was just wondering if there are any other steady couples like
us, or if we're the last to believe in waiting?  I don't mean
to insult anyone; it's just that all the other couples we know
have already had sex.  By the way, is it worth the wait?  I
hope I didn't offend anyone by posting this on this newsgroup;
I am not really familiar with the different ones yet, so if you
think this should have gone somewhere else, please tell me so
politely.  Thanks.  Also, tell me your views on waiting or not.

-Jen
Newsgroups: soc.couples
From: georged@meaddata.com (George Dibos)
Subject: Re: Need help: avoiding jealousy when making new friends
Organization: Mead Data Central, Dayton OH
Date: Tue, 21 Jul 1992 14:14:35 GMT

In article <14etoiINNcd7@agate.berkeley.edu>, barks@garnet.berkeley.edu () writes:
|> 
|> Kind of an ethical dilemma here.  SURELY it's not necessary to "put the
|> blinders on" once you are in a relationship and run away every time you
|> find an attractive person of the opposite sex in your vicinity, right?
|> It seems the best thing to do is try to be conscious of attraction and
|> deal with it in a mature way...but it's no simple trick to negotiate this
|> between three people!
|> 
|> Gary
|> -- 
|> 
Sorry, Gary, but what you call "dealing with in a mature way" has a one
word name:  Rationalization.  Maturity is being aware of the REALITIES of
human nature--the power of attraction, and all that it leads to--and
having the strength of character to walk away from it.  At the very least,
meaning if you two DO manage to keep it at a friendship-only level--you
are shooting some real torpedoes into the woman you claim to care about.
Believe it.  Believe it.  Believe it.  You are (or will be when you tell
her about it) ripping the guts out of her, no matter WHAT she claims to
the contrary to please you with her "mature" response. 

Bottom line:  Examine your true feelings, and follow them HONESTLY, but
don't play games.  That's true maturity.  If you examine your feelings
honestly and decide that you LIKE playing these games (which is a legitimate
possibility), then do that too, I suppose--it is a free country--but at
least stop trying to get others to help you live with it.

-- 
+---------------------+--------------------------------+-----------------------+
| George Dibos        | Views expressed are my own.... | (513) 865-1689        | 
| Mead Data Central   +--------------------------------+ Software Engineer     | 
| P.O. Box 933        | Every day I drink a toast to   | NGS Update/Data Svcs. |  
| Dayton, Ohio  45401 | the wonders of beautiful women | georged@meaddata.com  | 
+---------------------+--------------------------------+-----------------------+
From: ellon@ADS.COM (Ellon St. Croix)
Newsgroups: soc.couples
Subject: Re:  wedding etiquette
Date: 21 Jul 92 22:22:56 GMT
Organization: Wild Bill & BabyCat's House of Many Pleasures

In article <Brr8AF.283@usenet.ucs.indiana.edu> cshertze@silver.ucs.indiana.edu (Candace Shertzer) writes:
>
>I have a wedding etiquette question.  How appropriate is it for a couple
>to have a small wedding (just immediate family) and then have a "blow
>out" reception.  Would it be more appropriate if the inventation said
>something in about gifts not being required?
>

       If you ask me, this is perfectly appropriate.  However, it is
       not proper to say anything about gifts, unless you are going 
       to say to EVERYONE sonething like "No gifts please".  If you 
       were to say, "Gift not required" it sounds like you are asking 
       for one, but saying it IS ok for your guest to be a "tightwad" 
       and not bring one.


       This is JUST MY OPINION.  NOT FACT.


       Ellon


--
Nothin' feels as good, as good as us together.  Nothin' in the world,
no, there ain't nothin' better than this... NEW LOVE! Always feels 
like a new love. Every touch is feelin' so much like the very first
touch. It's like a new love, a new love........  WCS & ESS 4/18/92
From: bweiss@cs.arizona.edu (Beth Weiss)
Newsgroups: soc.couples
Subject: Re: More wedding etiquette
Date: 22 Jul 92 00:26:59 GMT
Organization: U of Arizona CS Dept, Tucson

> goldberg@oasys.dt.navy.mil (Mark Goldberg) writes:
>In soc.couples, squire@sybil.cs.Buffalo.EDU (Debora Squire) writes:
>>...   this is my second marriage.  Is it proper for my father to "give
>>me away" again?  Is there some other phrasing besides "giving me away"?

>First, your last question.  The general custom is that he gives you
>away only once.

I was recently at a wedding which was a second marriage for both
people.  The priest asked "Who blesses Susan as she comes to be
married to Douglas?" and her father said "her mother and I do".  Then,
he asked, "Who blesses Douglas as he comes to be married to Susan?",
and his 3 1/2 year old daughter said "I do".  It was sweet and
special, and I liked it lots better than "giving away".

>The source I am down on is the so-called "Miss Manners" (Judith Martin).
>I think her orientation is stodgy, arbitrary, and stiff.

I think Miss Manners is funny, honest, and a great source.

--
--Beth Weiss
bweiss@cs.arizona.edu
From: ilana@kiowa.scd.ucar.edu (Ilana Stern)
Newsgroups: soc.couples
Subject: Re:  wedding etiquette
Date: 21 Jul 92 21:50:33 GMT
Organization: NCAR/UCAR

In article <Brr8AF.283@usenet.ucs.indiana.edu>, cshertze@silver.ucs.indiana.edu (Candace Shertzer) writes:

 > I have a wedding etiquette question.  How appropriate is it for a couple
 > to have a small wedding (just immediate family) and then have a "blow
 > out" reception.  Would it be more appropriate if the inventation said
 > something in about gifts not being required?

That's what we did.  We had 18 guests at the wedding (family and a few
friends) and about 60 friends at the reception.  The engraved invitations
were explicitly for the reception;  they said something like "request the
pleasure of your company at a reception to celebrate our marriage."  
We hand-wrote invitations to the wedding on the reception invitations for
our family and those few friends who were travelling a long way.  (We
had a small wedding because we wanted it in our house.)  As far as I know,
nobody was offended, and it seemed like most people had a great time at
the reception.  

It is never appropriate to say _anything_ about gifts, because they are
_never_ required;  they are given out of the genuine wish to do something
nice for the couple since they are such good friends.  They are not an
entrance fee for the ceremony, or for the reception.  

-- 
/\        Ilana Stern DoD#009 | Whoever first said, "Things are seldom as they 
  \_][    ilana@ncar.ucar.edu | seem," was wrong.  Things are usually as they
      \_______________________| seem.  Otherwise, they wouldn't seem that way.
Organization: Penn State University
Date: Wed, 22 Jul 1992 19:20:42 EDT
From: Sonja Kueppers <SEK@psuvm.psu.edu>
Newsgroups: soc.couples
Subject: Re: More wedding etiquette
 <22600@oasys.dt.navy.mil>

In article <22600@oasys.dt.navy.mil>, goldberg@oasys.dt.navy.mil (Mark Goldberg)
says:
>
>It is interesting that she claims to be an authority on marriage while
>still being "Miss" and not "Mrs."

As another poster so accurately remarked (Ellon, I believe), Miss Manners
is an authority on etiquette, not marriage.  However, I believe Judith Martin
is married.

As you know very well, "Miss Manners" is a pseudonym.  "Mrs. Manners" sounds
pretty silly; along the lines of "Well, you're just Miss organization today,
aren't you?" vs. "Well, you're just Mrs. organization today, aren't you?"

-Sonja
------
SEK@psuvm.psu.edu SEK@PSUVM.BITNET
...the greater part of our happiness or misery depends on our
dispositions and not on our circumstances.       - Martha Washington
From: sdy@ssc-bee.boeing.com (Ugly Bag of Mostly Water)
Newsgroups: soc.couples
Subject: Wedding Favors
Date: 28 Jul 92 22:56:53 GMT
Distribution: soc
Organization: Ringworld

My friend is getting married soon and was curious as to what kinds of favors to
make for the reception. So if anyone has any ideas or have seen any really
spiffy things why don't you drop me a note with a description -- and if
possible an estimated cost. Oh and not that it really really matters but Asian
theme type favors would be especially interesting since the bride is Filipino
and the groom Japanese (and yes they're gonna try and do the 1001 cranes too).

Email is prefered to posting and as always if there is enough reponses
and/requests I will post a summary. 

gee -- hope this is correct group please don't flame me -- I figure this is
sorta along the lines of the wedding etiquette thread. =P

steve.

--
Steven D. Yee                 >>>  my employer does not share my opinions   <<<
sdy@ssc-bee.boeing.com        >>>   that's because I'm always right! =b     <<<
               You couldn't pay me enough, but go ahead and try.
From: -h@lambada.oit.unc.edu (/bbs/mnemon/usr/c/e/catherine/.rnhead)
Newsgroups: soc.couples
Subject: waiting a while before the "m" word
Date: 21 Jul 92 23:16:32 GMT
Organization: University of North Carolina Extended Bulletin Board Service

Sometimes, though, you just have to wait a while for other reasons.  One
thing that's important to consider is age, for example, and availability of
certain things.  My SO and I have been dating for a little over eighteen months
now and we both consider the relationship quite serious.  However, because
we are both undergraduates at two different colleges, we have decided that
"if this is truly for real, it'll be there in four years (when I graduate)."
Our reasoning is like this: neither of us can afford to change colleges due
to the cost and financial aid stuff etc., and besides I'm at a better college
for my major and he is too.  Small glitch that they're nine hours apart.
I guess what I'm trying to say is that couples have to discuss pragmatic
things as well as "what they want" when deciding about education vs. marriage.
It's probably easier to go ahead and get married once you're out of under-
graduate school or self-sufficient, but in our case none of these apply
(we're both partially self-sufficient).  Consider this:  if you and your So
decide to get married before your respective education(s) is/are complete,
how much will it cost to finish said education?  Is it affordable?

--Catherine
Newsgroups: soc.couples
From: bicker@cbnewsi.cb.att.com (The Resource, Poet-Magician of Quality)
Subject: Re: More wedding etiquette
Reply-To: Brian.C.Kohn@att.com (The Resource, Poet-Magician of Quality)
Organization: The Internet
Date: Wed, 22 Jul 1992 13:34:08 GMT
Followup-To: soc.couples

In article <22525@oasys.dt.navy.mil> goldberg@oasys.dt.navy.mil (Mark Goldberg) writes:
>In soc.couples, squire@sybil.cs.Buffalo.EDU (Debora Squire) writes:
>>...   this is my second marriage.  Is it proper for my father to "give
>>me away" again?  Is there some other phrasing besides "giving me away"?
>First, your last question.  The general custom is that he gives you
>away only once. The etiquette books may also advise you against an aisle
>walk and prescribe a simple private ceremony.  I see it differently,
>but I agree that it is not necessary for your dad to give you away again.
>I was at one wedding where the bride's two sons, as her attendants, walked
>her down the aisle.  The groom's sons were his Best Men.

My brother walked down the aisle between his parents, so I see no
reason why a woman shouldn't, just because she's been married before.
And as far as what to name it, "giving away" isn't a good term no
matter whether it's a first marriage or not, if you know what I mean.

What, I think, is important is to have the "line-up" so to speak fit
the circumstances.  My fiance's parents are dead, so it would be icky
for me to walk down the aisle with my parents and her to walk down
alone or with a surrogate.  I think we'll end up walking down the aisle
together, with my family waiting for us at the "alter" since that's
what best represents reality: We are coming together, of our own
chosing, to spend our lives together with (my) family around us.

-- 
Brian Charles Kohn             E-MAIL: att!hoqax!bicker  (bicker@hoqax.ATT.COM)
Poet of "Quality"
    'Hope, not fear, is the most positive advocate of action.' - S.R. Lawhead
                   Stamp Out "SO": "RP" = "Romantic Partner"
From: jennie+@cs.cmu.edu (Jennifer Kay)
Newsgroups: soc.couples
Subject: Re: More wedding etiquette (planning books)
Date: 21 Jul 92 19:53:02 GMT
Article-I.D.: cs.1992Jul21.195302.64941
Organization: School of Computer Science, Carnegie Mellon


The wedding organizer that I've got is called the "Working Woman's
Wedding Planner" or something like that, by Susan Tatsu-D'Arci (or
something pretty close). There's two editions and I have the newer one
(don't know what difference that makes. Anyway, I think it's pretty
good. 

-- Jennie
Newsgroups: soc.couples
From: cmclark@dri.com (Chip Clark)
Subject: Re: G-friend lied
Reply-To: cmclark@novell.com
Organization: Desktop Systems Group/Novell, Monterey CA/USA
Date: Thu, 23 Jul 92 21:10:55 GMT

dweuve@news.weeg.uiowa.edu (Delon E. Weuve) writes:

]In article <itgtestr.710625387@bone36> itgtestr@rtsg.mot.com (itgtester - [hughesr] ) writes:
]>
]>>I just found out that my g-friend lied to me. 
]>>She  has slept with a person about 18 months ago.     
]>>Her friends told me about this way back and I asked her about it and
]>>she told me nothing happened. Today I found a letter she wrote back then
]>>to the guy and it is *very* evident that she did sleep with him. We were
]>>not on good terms at the time. 
]>>It happened just before winter break and we
]>>broke-up for the first time right after we got back from break. 
]>>I am going to try to talk to her rationally tonight, 
]>>but I'm not even sure what I want now  
]>>She has told me that there is nothing that has happened that she hasn't
]>>told me about 
]>>but that surely isn't true...we're living together now...what do
]>>you think I should do?
]>
]>
]>From someone who has been "DECEIVED" by a lying bitch,
]>
]>
]>DUMP the LYING BITCH and go have an AIDS test.   
]>
]>The CAJUN
]>
]>
]>
]>

]That's your response??

]I agree that if you suspect problems, go have an HIV test. I think every 
]sexually active couple should have one anyway, especially if one or both 
]have had other partners before. Even if you are telling the truth, whose to 
]say that your previous partners or their previous partners told the truth.

]Are you trying to tell me and everyone else that you have never told a lie 
]to anyone you have been involved or even interested in?? You then are truly
]a rare individual. Someone who everyone can look up on and who is so sure 
]they are right that the course of action is crystal clear.

]Now remember, everyone. Someone lies to you for any reason, dump them. We'll
]see how many friends there are in the world after that policy becomes 
]widespread.

]I didn't think the lying is good, but it should not be the only reason
]someone "dumps" someone else. 

Is there nothing worth saving?

Relationships are many things, the sex (or fidelity) is only one aspect 
of them.  Work on who you are so they can trust YOU enough to tell the truth.
it doesn't excuse the lie, but condeming them is no better and you could end up
the looser in the end!!!!!!!!


I guess what I'm saying is . . .


I agree


Chip -
From: ellon@ADS.COM (Ellon St. Croix)
Newsgroups: soc.couples
Subject: Re:  wedding etiquette
Date: 22 Jul 92 15:33:47 GMT
Organization: Wild Bill & BabyCat's House of Many Pleasures

In article <19419@optima.cs.arizona.edu> bweiss@cs.arizona.edu (Beth Weiss) writes:
>> ellon@ADS.COM (Ellon St. Croix) writes:
>> ilana@kiowa.scd.ucar.edu (Ilana Stern) writes:
>
>>>We hand-wrote invitations to the wedding on the reception invitations for
>>>our family and those few friends who were travelling a long way. 
>>
>>      This is exactly the way it should be done.  With the only 
>>      exception being, maybe to go ahead and order ingraved invites 
>>      for those 20 or so people you invite to the wedding.
>
>Engraving is a way of mass-producing handwriting.  There is nothing
>wrong with handwriting _anything_, especially formal invitations.


  Oh, I agree Beth.  There is NEVER anything wrong with a hand-written
  invitation.  But, to write it on the reception invite is tacky.  It
  should have been separate. 

  Ellon
--
Nothin' feels as good, as good as us together.  Nothin' in the world,
no, there ain't nothin' better than this... NEW LOVE! Always feels 
like a new love. Every touch is feelin' so much like the very first
touch. It's like a new love, a new love........  WCS & ESS 4/18/92 
Xref: sparky soc.couples:3417 soc.women:13847 soc.men:13471
From: soberg@think.com (Stephanie Oberg)
Newsgroups: soc.couples,soc.women,soc.men
Subject: Re: wedding etiquette
Date: 21 Jul 1992 16:51:03 GMT
Organization: Thinking Machines Corporation, Cambridge MA, USA
Distribution: world
NNTP-Posting-Host: quicksilver.think.com

[ description deleted of mailing out thank you notes immediately after the
  wedding]

Can someone please explain the belief that thank you notes should only be 
mailed AFTER the wedding, even for gifts that were given many months or
weeks in advance?  Sometimes people imply that this practice is merely
permissible;  others state that prompt before-wedding thank yous are
incorrect.  Please explain your reasoning.

-- 

sojourner
Xref: sparky soc.couples:3440 soc.women:13898 soc.men:13526
From: noraa@cbnewsk.cb.att.com (aaron.l.hoffmeyer)
Newsgroups: soc.couples,soc.women,soc.men
Subject: Re:  wedding etiquette
Date: 22 Jul 92 00:33:36 GMT
Organization: AT&T Bell Laboratories

In article <1992Jul21.000538.808@m.cs.uiuc.edu> carroll@cs.uiuc.edu (Alan M. Carroll) writes:
>In article <liam.04zd@durie.amigans.gen.nz>, liam@durie.amigans.gen.nz (Liam Greenwood) writes:
>> In article <21962@venera.isi.edu> vickiemc@isi.edu (Vickie McCorkendale) writes:
>> >This is the first modern rule of etiquette dealing with thank you notes:
>> >YOU CANNOT USE THE COMPUTER, DO NOT PRINT OUT AND MAIL YOUR THANK YOU NOTES.
>> >YOU MUST HANDWRITE AND ADDRESS EACH INDIVIDUAL NOTE.
>> [Liam disagrees]
>
>I have to go with Liam on this one. My wife and I did all of our thank
>you letters with a computer (LaTeX for the technophilic). 
>We had a number
>of people get word back to use that they _really_ liked them, since
>they were far more informative yet still had a personal touch.
>
>The real bonus, of course, is that we got them done within a week of
>the wedding. That's probably what impressed people the most. :-)

Well, Alan, it seems Miss Vickie is living in a era of quill pens and
horse-drawn carriages and has the last word on this one.  This icky
technology stuff cannot ever allow a person to express his or herself
or show compassion, caring and gratitude.  Nor can such technology be
used to efficiently produce anything that might have a more pleasant
appearance than an ink-stain-filled, 50-word note on folded card stock
with a token "Thank You" in gold on the front.  No, Miss Manners feels
that the more Elizabethan or Victorian approach is the only valid one
and that different strokes can't be the product of different folks.

Unfortunately, I'm having a little trouble swaying my office-mate.
Seems he and his wife just finished producing a volume of poetry and
other musings by Jacob Boehme - with new translations.  His wife did
all the illustrations (which were passionate abstract representations
of the emotions she derived from each major verse) using Corel Draw and
they phototypeset it on their home computer.  I think he told me the
books would sell for $500 each.

Anyway, no one can even approach the artistry and adherence to
standards of Victorian etiquette on a lowly computer.  I guess we are
all wrong and Miss Vickie here is 100% correct in her assertions.  I
guess those letters that I sent to my children that I typeset and
included pictures of teddy bears, balloons, tigers, et. al. were simply
offensive in retrospect.

Aaron L. Hoffmeyer
TR@CBNEA.ATT.COM