From: kruel@wpcst1.phys-chemie.uni-wuerzburg.dbp.de (Thomas-Martin Kruel)
Newsgroups: sci.chaos,sci.geo.meteorology
Organization: Institut f. Physikalische Chemie
Subject: Re: clearly describing chaos
	<1992Dec8.154802.8104@nsisrv.gsfc.nasa.gov>
	<2B24F49F.8361@news.service.uci.edu>
	<1992Dec9.183230.1422@westford.ccur.com>
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In <1992Dec9.183230.1422@westford.ccur.com>, Karl Zimmerman writes:
> In article <2B24F49F.8361@news.service.uci.edu> eapg137@orion.oac.uci.edu (Bryan Joseph Hannegan) writes:
> >Chaos theory may be able to put a cap on ultimately how good our weather 
> >forecasts become, but we have a lot to learn about the atmosphere and a lot 
> >of parameterized processes to flesh out before we get to that point.
> 
> Mr. Hannegan has a point.  We should not forget that although weather is
> useful as a personally-applicable example of chaos, it has not been
> determined that weather IS chaotic; we only know that Lorenz' MODEL is
> chaotic.
>   Personally, given the variety of simple non-linear systems that
> have been found to be chaotic, and the relative complexity of weather, I
> find it almost unthinkable that weather is non-chaotic.  But it COULD be.
>   Let us not lose the facts in our passion.
> 
Well, I know of at least some papers claiming fractal dimensions and other
positive measures of chaos from (global) climate data.

Here is a list of references:

@article{FS89,
  author =  {R.H. Jr. Fluegeman and R.S. Snow},
  year =    {1989},
  journal = {Pure Appl.Geophys.},
  number =  {1/2},
  note =    {Special issue on fractals in geophysics ISSN 0033-4553; CODEN PAGYA},
  pages =   {307-313},
  title =   {Fractal analysis of long-range paleoclimatic data: oxygen isotope record of Pacific core V28-239.},
  volume =  {131}
}
@article{Fra86,
  author =  {K. Fraedrich},
  year =    {1986},
  journal = {J.Atmos.Sci.},
  pages =   {419-432},
  title =   {Estimating the dimensions of weather and climate attractors.},
  volume =  {43}
}
@article{Bek91,
  author =  {R.V. Bekryaev},
  year =    {1991},
  journal = {Izv.Akad.Nauk SSSR, Fiz.Atmos.Okeana},
  number =  {10},
  note =    {TIB/ZZ 1605(27,10) ISSN 0002-3515; CODEN IVNMA},
  pages =   {1130-1138},
  title =   {Some features of the structure of a climatic attractor.},
  volume =  {27}
}
@article{Lor91,
   author = {E.N. Lorenz},
   title = {Dimension of weather and climate attractors},
   journal = {Nature},
   volume = 353,
   pages = {241-244},
   year = 1991
}


If somone has ever newer ref's I'd like to get hands on it.

Regards,
        Thomas.

P.S.: sci.chaos seems to be a bogus newsgroup. I don't care, but it 
might be appropriate to direct followups to comp.theory.dynamic-sys
-- 
Thomas-Martin Kruel  Institut f. Physikalische Chemie / Universitaet Wuerzburg
                     Marcusstr. 9-11, D-8700 Wuerzburg, Tel. +49 931 31579
-- 
Thomas-Martin Kruel  Institut f. Physikalische Chemie / Universitaet Wuerzburg
                     Marcusstr. 9-11, D-8700 Wuerzburg, Tel. +49 931 31579
Xref: sparky sci.chaos:25 sci.fractals:479