HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: ForthNet@willett.pgh.pa.us (ForthNet articles from GEnie)
Newsgroups: comp.lang.forth
Subject: From the xCFB's / ForthNet
Date: 10 Apr 92 11:18:33 GMT
Organization: (n.) to be organized.  But that's not important right now.


 Date: 03-31-92 (05:23)              Number: 30929 of 30931
   To: JERRY SHIFRIN                 Refer#: NONE
 From: STEFAN BAKER                    Read: NO
 Subj: Hello and ??s                 Status: PUBLIC MESSAGE
 Conf: FORTH (58)                 Read Type: GENERAL (+)

        Hi, Jerry,

        New to the echo and would like to know more about it.  Do the
 users on GEnie receive the messages that we post in the RIME echo or are
 we just eavesdropping?

        I'm also rather new to FORTH (I have F-PC and HS FORTH) so I will
 be interested in seeing some newcomer assistance type of activity as
 well.  I program for Windows and will be very interested in seeing how I
 might be able to utilize Forth.  Is WinForth a reality?  How will the ANS
 standard approach the Windows question?

        Thanks and Regards,
        Stefan

 ---
    JABBER v1.1   Dolphin, Dolphin, Dolphin, Tuna, Dolphin, Dolphin,

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From: ForthNet@willett.pgh.pa.us (ForthNet articles from GEnie)
Newsgroups: comp.lang.forth
Subject: Graphics, GUIs, and Events
Date: 11 Apr 92 16:02:02 GMT
Organization: (n.) to be organized.  But that's not important right now.

Category 10,  Topic 33
Message 7         Tue Apr 07, 1992
B.DUNN5 [Brian]              at 02:30 EDT
 
 
 A good compromise for the aspect ratio,screen size,virtual coordinate space,
circular circles, square squares problem:

 Assume the screen is  16 1024 *  virtual pixels across.

 Assume the screen is however many virtual pixels tall necessary for circular
circles assuming 'square' pixels.

 In this manner, a 320X200 screen would be 16K pixels across, and
 16K 200 320 */  pixels tall.

 A 640 X 480 screen would be 16K pixels across and  16K 480 640 */  tall.

 Therefore, typical displays are 16K across and 10-12K tall.  Full page
displays would be taller.  A workstation with a screen wider than typical
might be wider than 16K.  The whole idea is that a program written to assume
16K by 10K will have windows with real physical dimensions around the same
size on all systems.  Also, if you draw a circle of radius 500 at 500,500, the
circle will touch the top and left edges of the window, and look circular.

 Using the XWindows approach of actual pixel coordinates fails when you have
programs written for a 720 wide screen which are run on a 320X200 mode.

 Is anyone familiar with the Unix GUI wars, and do you have any ideas leached
from them? .
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From: Nick_Janow@mindlink.bc.ca (Nick Janow)
Newsgroups: comp.lang.forth
Subject: EKEY and double numbers
Date: 7 Apr 92 06:30:02 GMT
Distribution: world
Organization: MIND LINK! - British Columbia, Canada

From the BC Forth Board:

MESSAGE: 1525
FROM   : DAN PHILLIPS
TO     : NICK JANOW
SUBJECT: ANSI Forth Update
FOLDER : A, "Main Mail Area"

OK, I find EKEY et al. a little less strange with Mitch's explanation - but why
not drop the other shoe and call it "EVENT", "EVENT?" and "EVENT>KEY" which is
where it looks like this thing is really trying to go.  Full english words are
a lot more appealling than acronyms if you have to live with them for the rest
of your Forthing life.

MESSAGE: 1527
FROM   : DAN PHILLIPS
TO     : NICK JANOW
SUBJECT: ANSI Forth Update
FOLDER : A, "Main Mail Area"

What about double number cell order on the stack?  Do you have info?  Is it
prescribed or environment-dependent?  (I think it should be
environment-dependent.)
--

Nick_Janow@mindlink.bc.ca
From: ForthNet@willett.pgh.pa.us (ForthNet articles from GEnie)
Newsgroups: comp.lang.forth
Subject: Feedback to the Forth Interest Group
Date: 8 Apr 92 12:33:52 GMT
Organization: (n.) to be organized.  But that's not important right now.


 Date: 03-31-92 (05:20)              Number: 30928 of 30931
   To: LRWEBBER [LARRY]              Refer#: 30868
 From: STEFAN BAKER                    Read: NO
 Subj: FEEDBACK TO THE FORTH INT     Status: PUBLIC MESSAGE
 Conf: FORTH (58)                 Read Type: GENERAL (+)

   I just wanted to add my two cents on using GENIE as FIG communication medi
   With all the problems folks have with GENIE, I don't know any better mediu
   use. I would REALLY like to get away from $6.00/hr but am (obviously) will
   to live with it. Dennis, my biggest complaint is when GENIE goes away for
   seconds to > 1 minute when busy. If the system can't handle the load, it
   shouldn't allow more users to log on. .s

        Hi Larry,
        New user here in RIME.  Curious as to whether you are seeing this
 message.  Has anyone considered America Online?  That is currently the
 only "superboard" that I use.  Never been on GEnie or CS either one.  I
 don't like spending even $6.00 per hour and AoL is $4.00 (plus $5.95/mo
 base).

        Regards,
        Stefan
 ---
    JABBER v1.1   Remember - Life's a batch and then you die, or marry one.

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Newsgroups: comp.lang.forth
From: pazsan@Informatik.TU-Muenchen.DE (Bernd Paysan)
Subject: Re: ANS FORTH TECHNICAL COMMITTEE
Originator: pazsan@hphalle9b.informatik.tu-muenchen.de
Organization: Technische Universitaet Muenchen, Germany
Date: Tue, 14 Apr 1992 15:22:41 GMT


Brad Rodriguez writes:
>Say....when does that fifteen-day answerback period commence?  When the TC
>_mails_ the response, or when I _receive_ it?  (If the former, can I request
>fax transmission?  It takes 15 days just for the mail to cross the border.)

And it takes six weeks to cross the ocean!

Send e-mail! Or, at least, air mail. Even if it is more expensive.
-- 

Bernd Paysan
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
The only language computers can speak, is /^^^^ /^^^\  /^^\ ^^/^^ /   /
You can't speek the other languages.     /     /    / /   /  /   /   /
                                        /---  /    / /---'  /   /---/
                                       /     /    / / \    /   /   /
                                      /      \___/ /   \  /   /   /
From: dwp@willett.pgh.pa.us (Doug Philips)
Newsgroups: comp.lang.forth
Subject: Re: BBS's handier than GEnie
Date: 8 Apr 92 02:33:13 GMT
Organization: (n.) to be organized.  But that's not important right now.

In article <1989138@overmind.citadel>
	Interface!b0b@overmind.mind.org writes:
+   I think the Forth community would be better served if FIG's official 
+online connection were a free, public access BBS instead of GEnie.  It 
+doesn't cost a lot to run a BBS, and the benefits to the community are well 
+known. 

I think it would be reasonable to start a discussion on just how FIG
should provide access to its on-line library.  Unless I've missed
something somewhere along the line, there are only a few floppies
available via USMail/UPS/whatever from FIG.  Why is there no way to get at
all the library that is currently stored on GEnie?  How does the current
"library" work?  Does someone (a volunteer?  board member?) make up a bunch
of floppies from time to time?  How does FIG decide what stuff it will make
available that way?  (I am assuming, perhaps incorrectly, that so far FIG
has just taken anything anyone has has handed them).

-Doug
---
Preferred:  dwp@willett.pgh.pa.us	Ok:  {pitt,sei}!willett!dwp
From: ahaley@abcl.co.uk (Andrew Haley)
Newsgroups: comp.lang.forth
Subject: Re: Jobs in Education (retry)
Date: 15 Apr 92 09:36:51 GMT
Organization: EO Computer Limited, Cambridge, UK

I don't really want to get involved with this, because it's really
nothing to do with Forth, and I don't want to get involved, but I must
clear up this misunderstanding:

> if you buy a spelling checker for British English (a variation of
> which is used in New Zealand), then it should at least have words like
> "colour" and "organisation" in it, and not have words like "color" and
> "organization" in it. Doesn't seem to work that way though, or at
> least not with software that is available in NZ.

According to the latest edition of the Oxford English Dictionary, (if
there's any authority on the langauge, this is it) and in agreement
with Fowler's Modern English Usage, the suffix -ize is correct in
almost all cases.  There are one or two exceptions to this, such as
advertise and circumcise, which are not derived from the Greek -izo.
The -ise suffix is not recognized by the OED (it's correct in French,
though), but is allowed as an alternative by many English
dictionaries.

So feel free to use -ize if you want; there's a lot of linguistic
weight to back you up if anyone disagrees.

Andrew.
-- 
No .sig here!
From: ForthNet@willett.pgh.pa.us (ForthNet articles from GEnie)
Newsgroups: comp.lang.forth
Subject: Forth Implementation
Date: 8 Apr 92 22:47:30 GMT
Organization: (n.) to be organized.  But that's not important right now.

Category 3,  Topic 24
Message 84        Mon Apr 06, 1992
E.RATHER [Elizabeth]         at 01:11 EDT
 
1.  Loelinger's language resembles Forth, but the list of departures from any
published standard would be extensive.  If you're interested, I'd recommend
you get a good book on Forth such as Starting Forth, by Brodie.

2.  Most commercial and some public-domain Forths have string extensions. The
TC working on an ANSI Forth examined all of them & found many similarities,
but not much overlap.  People tend to customize string words to their taste
and to their applications.

3.  RE other extensions, virtually all Forths have many extensions.  Our
products, for example, offer graphics, floating point, data base,
multitasking, and many utilities & other things.  Each implementor tends to
add those extensions deemed most appropriate for their market.

4.  RE errors, sorry, it was many years ago when I read it.  I didn't like it
much, as it presented an overly complex and insufficiently useful variant of
the language as I knew it, but I can't be more specific.
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From: ForthNet@willett.pgh.pa.us (ForthNet articles from GEnie)
Newsgroups: comp.lang.forth
Subject: Feedback to the Forth Interest Group
Date: 8 Apr 92 12:33:55 GMT
Organization: (n.) to be organized.  But that's not important right now.

Category 1,  Topic 2
Message 166       Sat Apr 04, 1992
B.RODRIGUEZ2 [Brad]          at 09:55 EST
 
Anil Rodrix: Thanks for the suggestions.  You make an excellent point!  The
first thing I did with C was write some simple file utilities; this taught me
rudimentary C programming _and_ left me with some useful tools.  This is the
kind of thing that a beginner to a language should be able to do as a first
program, and you're right, most p.d. Forths are weak in this regard.

BTW, I can't answer for Zen, but I've used Pygmy a bit, and all of its file
operators are designed to support blocks.  I don't think any of the functions
you requested for text files exist in Pygmy.  I was able to hack together a
simple INCLUDE for ASCII text files containing Forth source.

Brad Rodriguez
 B.RODRIGUEZ2 on GEnie   |   bradford@maccs.dcss.mcmaster.ca
 So many projects....so little time.

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From: ForthNet@willett.pgh.pa.us (ForthNet articles from GEnie)
Newsgroups: comp.lang.forth
Subject: Graphics
Date: 8 Apr 92 22:47:16 GMT
Organization: (n.) to be organized.  But that's not important right now.

Category 3,  Topic 15
Message 80        Sat Apr 04, 1992
B.RODRIGUEZ2 [Brad]          at 09:56 EST
 
Does the Forth Vendors Group still exist?  Who's running it?

Brad Rodriguez
 B.RODRIGUEZ2 on GEnie   |   bradford@maccs.dcss.mcmaster.ca
 "As long as I'm in charge, there will be no leaders!"
  -- popular saying among anarchists
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From: ForthNet@willett.pgh.pa.us (ForthNet articles from GEnie)
Newsgroups: comp.lang.forth
Subject: What should the Standard include?
Date: 17 Apr 92 12:05:57 GMT
Organization: (n.) to be organized.  But that's not important right now.

Category 10,  Topic 30
Message 184       Thu Apr 16, 1992
LRWEBBER [larry]             at 22:05 EDT
 
Brad or Dennis,
 Whilst most of the time I am a listener, I would appreciate being
 pointed to a category/topic which would bring me up to speed on what
 the Forthnet is. I see messages with all sorts of headers from
 virtually all over the world. The possibilities of working out
 some standardized functions (not covered in ANSII) but necessary
 to make Forth more usable and practical to more people intrigues me.
 I just need to understand the electronic networks outside GENIE and
 their limitations. Sorry to get off topic here.
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From: ForthNet@willett.pgh.pa.us (ForthNet articles from GEnie)
Newsgroups: comp.lang.forth
Subject: Graphics
Date: 15 Apr 92 12:09:34 GMT
Organization: (n.) to be organized.  But that's not important right now.

Category 3,  Topic 15
Message 86        Tue Apr 14, 1992
E.RATHER [Elizabeth]         at 21:56 EDT
 
Brad, FVG had been inactive for a year or two before that.  But being involved
in X3J14 has certainly drained whatever potential energy there might have
been.  We're sincerely looking forward to putting that to bed!
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From: ForthNet@willett.pgh.pa.us (ForthNet articles from GEnie)
Newsgroups: comp.lang.forth
Subject: Feedback to the Forth Interest Group
Date: 17 Apr 92 12:05:46 GMT
Organization: (n.) to be organized.  But that's not important right now.


 Date: 04-14-92 (16:10)              Number: 31066 of 31066
   To: STEFAN BAKER                  Refer#: 31039
 From: ANIL RODRIX                     Read: NO
 Subj: FEEDBACK TO THE FORTH INT     Status: PUBLIC MESSAGE
 Conf: FORTH (58)                 Read Type: GENERAL (+)

 Glad someone understands my stumbling blocks.
 One example of file creation is a transalator of data formats.
 We have one program that creates machine control codes _ he has since
 left - in a format our machines accept. I would like to write a
 conversion prog . that would take generic NC G-codes and convert it to
 our format so customers who have or want " CAM/CAD" systems can be told
 they can produce their code files and we can supply a program to
 transalate them for our machines.

 PCRelay:PROPC -> #288 RelayNet (tm)
 4.11             Pittsburgh ProPC BBS (412) 321-6645
 <<<>>>

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From: ForthNet@willett.pgh.pa.us (ForthNet articles from GEnie)
Newsgroups: comp.lang.forth
Subject: What should the Standard include?
Date: 11 Apr 92 16:01:43 GMT
Organization: (n.) to be organized.  But that's not important right now.

Category 10,  Topic 30
Message 169       Mon Mar 30, 1992
B.DUNN5 [Brian]              at 05:23 EST
 
 
 There has been much talk about vectoring I/O words with DEFER.  For a
multitasking system, they should be vectored with DEFERUSER, unique for each
task, so that each task may perform I/O in a different way at the same time. 
Their actions are set with ISUSER or some similar word.

 To put an end to the EMIT calls TYPE vs TYPE calls EMIT arguments, vector
them both, since what is good for console might not be good for graphics or
comm port.


 It seems that LOCALS| has recently been adopted:
 : name  ( a b c -- anything )
     locals|  c b a  |  ( note the reversed order )
     .. do whatever ..
     ;

 I used this for a while with CSI's MultiForth and got tired of it.  It seems
redundant, backwards, and clumsy.  Mach2 had a better scheme with:
 : name  { a b c -- anything }  ( which happens to make a stack comment )
 Their method for additional locals was:
 : name  { a b c | d e f -- anything }  ( a-c from data stack, d-f new )
 My homemade Forth eventually ended up with:
 : name  { a b c -- anything }  ( a-c initialized from data stack )
         l{  d e f  }           ( d-f are additional locals )
 That made the most sense.  It did require counting the number of names in the
{ phrase to be able to assign reversed offsets to the stack frame.

 All of this is useless for floating point numbers, unless they happen to be
cell sized numbers on the normal data stack.  Perhaps:
 : name  { a b c -- anything }  f{ x y z -- anything }
  l{ d e f }   fl{  t u v  }  ( x-z from FP stack, t-v new float locals )

 And this is still useless when you talk about multi-cell locals.  So, how
about:
 : name
    3 parms  a b c
    3 fparms  x y z
    2 wigit_parms  g h  ( which act on a 'wigit' stack )
    3 locs  d e f
    3 flocs  t u v
    2 wigit_locs  i j
    .. do whatever ..
    ;
 The idea here being simpler locals so that it's easy to make wigit locals and
such.

 If there has been a local debate on GEnie before, I missed it.  I just think
it wouldn't be too hard to improve on the current LOCALS| c b a | scheme.

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From: george@hub.cs.jmu.edu (george galang)
Newsgroups: comp.lang.visual
Subject: Re: what is a definition of a vis. language?
Date: 7 Apr 92 14:02:32 GMT
Organization: James Madison University

8914437l@levels.unisa.edu.au writes:
: 
: What actually defines a visual language?
: 
: does anyone have a formal definition?
: 
: --
: 

Please post the note.  I would like to know as well.

--
George Galang @ Nowhere in the entire free world
Administrator of my destiny
Newsgroups: comp.lang.visual
From: Peter.Gorny@arbi.informatik.uni-oldenburg.de (Peter Gorny)
Subject: Re: what is a definition of a vis. language?
Organization: University of Oldenburg, Germany
Date: Wed, 8 Apr 1992 23:51:53 GMT

8914437l@levels.unisa.edu.au writes:


>What actually defines a visual language?

>does anyone have a formal definition?

>               - People who live in glass houses shouldn't!

Well, through the looking glass (of the house): take a look 
in S K Chang's book "Visual languages" - he describes a taxonomy
and some formal definitions.

Peter Gorny



+--------------------------  Prof. Dr. Peter Gorny  --------------------------+
| Informatics Department    -   Computer Graphics & Software-Ergonomics Group |
| Carl von Ossietzky Universitaet Oldenburg  -  POB 2503  -  D-2900 Oldenburg |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------------------|
| * Internet *                                   * Telephone *                |
| Peter.Gorny@arbi.Informatik.Uni-Oldenburg.DE   Office:        +441-798-2901 |
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+-----------------------------------------------------------------------------+
From: landay+@cs.cmu.edu (James A Landay)
Newsgroups: comp.lang.visual
Subject: Re:  Call for visual languages for children... (Sam Griffith)
Date: 9 Apr 92 00:58:19 GMT
Organization: School of Computer Science, Carnegie Mellon

In article <1992Mar24.231535.4548@pencom.com> sam@pencom.com writes:
>You also might want "Playground"  It is a language that was devloped for  
>Apples' Vivarium Project.  Anyway, there are references to it in the 89 or 90  
>OOPSLA proceedings.  (Object Oriented Programming Systems and Languages  
>Conference)
>
>--
>Sam Griffith Jr.
>Pencom Software
>sam@pencom.com

Can someone email me the article that this followed up? (i.e the references
of the papers).  I lost it and the post has expired on my system.

Thanks,

James

-- 

James A. Landay
landay@cs.cmu.edu
From: 8914437l@levels.unisa.edu.au
Newsgroups: comp.lang.visual
Subject: what is a definition of a vis. language?
Date: 7 Apr 92 02:14:41 GMT
Organization: University of South Australia


What actually defines a visual language?

does anyone have a formal definition?

--

+-----------------------------------------------------------------------------+
| Andrew "Killer" Kulikovsky                Be alert...the world needs lerts! |
|------------------------------------+----------------------------------------|
|  B.App.Sc (Hons) Computer Studies  | The wise men looked for Jesus Christ...|
|                                    | and so it is today.                    |
| send email to:                     |                                        |
|   kulikovsky@unisa.edu.au          |        - Look to Jesus Christ!         |
+------------------------------------+----------------------------------------+

               - People who live in glass houses shouldn't!