From: mjc+@cs.cmu.edu (Monica Cellio)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: Group activity
Date: 12 Nov 92 15:21:32 GMT
Organization: School of Computer Science, Carnegie Mellon

Lord Elwyn says, on the subject of the required-events policy:

>I think you've
>taken a rather large leap from my actual statement that groups cannot help
>but benefit from at least minimal interaction with the rest of their
>Kingdom.  

I know you said you were just playing devil's advocate, but many people use
this reasoning and it needs to be answered: the fact that something is good
for you is not sufficient reason for it to be required of you.  

Also, I believe your statement to be false.  There is a cost to interaction
with the rest of the kingdom -- in money and time, at the least, and 
especially for geographically isolated groups.  It is possible that the 
kingdom as a whole is no more interesting to the group than the group is to
the kingdom.  So saying that the group "cannot help but benefit" is incorrect;
"benefit" means that gain exceeds cost, and you haven't shown that.

>I was under the
>(possibly inaccurate) impression that events had to be published in Kingdom
>newsletters to count as "official" events on the Kingdom calendar.  It is
>quite possible that that is only Kingdom law, though, and not Society law, in
>which case your hypothetical situation might well be possible.

It's not Society law, and any kingdom law that says so is in conflict with
Corpora.  Corpora says an event is an event if it's publicized to the members
of the group holding it.  Certain types of activities (such as courts) may
only occur at events published in the kingdom newsletter; that's probably
where you got confused.

>I have never encountered, either directly or indirectly, a group that was
>vital and active that did NOT participate on a Kingdom level.  

Just picking nits: if there *were* a vital and active group that did not
participate on a kingdom level, how would you know?  Unless it's your group
or you know people from there, you wouldn't.

>I firmly hold that the vast majority of groups that don't want to interact
>are doomed to ultimate failure.  But if that's their choice, so be it.  

Yup.  You may be wrong, after all.

Oh, about Tibor's "event kludge" getting into the kingdom newsletter: here
in the (People's Republic of the) East, the Seneschal does not control the 
event calendar.  The Chronicler does.  Approval does not need to be obtained 
from anyone (unless you're incipient, in which case your sponsoring group has 
to agree).  If Tibor submitted that event announcement to Pikestaff, I would
be legally and morally required to print it; refusing to print it because
it's not "serious" enough is the start of a very dangerous slippery slope.
("Oh, they can't be serious about this A&S competition; they don't have any
Laurels judging."  "Oh, they can't be serious about this tourney; look at
those stupid melee rules!  Cattle raids *indeed*!"  "Oh, they must not be 
serious; so-and-so doesn't know Thing One about authentic cooking and he's 
the head cook.")  

This isn't to say that I wouldn't call up Tibor and talk to him about it, 
but I would *not* be able to pull the event announcement.  If his group 
wants to look stupid in front of the whole kingdom, that's their business.  
I can try to persuade, but I cannot censor.

Ellisif
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca