HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: bennett@erich.triumf.ca (P.Bennett)
Subject: Re: Flares (was: Re: snow goose)
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41    
Organization: TRIUMF: Tri-University Meson Facility
Distribution: usa
Date: Mon, 31 Aug 1992 06:04:00 GMT

In article <19821@fritz.filenet.com>, daver@fritz.filenet.com (Dave Richards) writes...
> 
>You only addressed one of the points raised.  If you don't fire it off,
>how do you propose that one disposes of such potential toxic trash?  
>(Let's assume we don't want the toxics to end up in the sea OR in inland
>ground water.)
> 
>Dave

I was once told to give old flares to the coast guard, or to the fire
department - they would pass them on to the army who could dispose of them
"safely"

Peter Bennett VE7CEI                | Vessels shall be deemed to be in sight
Internet: bennett@erich.triumf.ca   | of one another only when one can be
Bitnet:   bennett@triumfer          | observed visually from the other
TRIUMF, Vancouver, B.C., Canada     |                          ColRegs 3(k)
From: pavlov@niktow.canisius.edu (Greg Pavlov)
Newsgroups: rec.boats
Subject: Re: Inboard VS. Outboard
Date: 28 Aug 92 09:04:07 GMT
Organization: Canisius College, Buffalo NY. 14208

In article <1992Aug20.082317@doodly.mcc.dec.com>, swist@doodly.mcc.dec.com (Jim Swist) writes:
> All previous comments are good stuff.  Couple of things:
> 
> I agree that modern outboards are probably more reliable than I/Os. 
> (Fewer moving parts and system totally designed from top down
> for this application, rather than the truck engine + marinization 
> kludge).
> 
  Maybe.  But several pseudo-"data points":

   1. I can buy a four-year extension to a one-year i/o warranty for apx.
      $450 - $800, depending on engine size.  For apx. 50% more, I can buy
      a TWO-year extension to a one-year outboard warranty.  That's the max
      extension I have been able to find for an outboard;

   2. I consistently see i/o versions of a used boat at higher asking prices
      than outboard versions of the same boat (given apx. equivalent hp and
      equivalent # of engines);

   3. I don't know the general parts count in each type of engine.  But with
      all those needle bearings, multiple carbs, etc in outboards, I am not
      sure that they are simpler than I/Os;

   4. I am not sure how well "kludge" describes present-day i/o's.  In looking
      at lots of used boats, I have seen many more multi-k hour units than
      I thought I would a priori.  Also, when there has been a major repair/
      overhaul, it has tended to be on the outdrive rather than the primary
      mover.  The outdrive was designed "from top down for this application"
      while the prime mover was the one adapted;

   5. the vast majority of i/o units originate from car, not truck, engines.

   (1) and (2) may be attributable to the possibility that it is easier to
   damage an outboard through carelessness/neglect rather than any inherent
   reliability differences if both types are maintained properly.

> But I think you will find this comes at a cost.  Retail price of a Johnson
> 140 is around $8000 and goes up to over $11000 for a 200.  Yamahas
> are even more.  This is well over the cost of the equivalent I/O.


   But I have been encountering offers of much higher discounts on outboards
   than i/o units.  Maybe because they are easier to sell/carry stock in than
   the latter.  Example: 225 HP Evinrudes, quotes between $7K and $8K.  This
   helps to shrink the gap by a fair amount.


   greg pavlov
   pavlov@fstrf.org
Newsgroups: rec.boats
From: tsai@ecsvax.uncecs.edu (Jeffrey C. Tsai)
Subject: Rigging question on Bucacaneer 18
Keywords: mast
Organization: UNC Educational Computing Service
Date: Thu, 3 Sep 1992 21:29:14 GMT


I recdnently purchased a an old Buccaneer 18 (197566) and hnd having a lot
of fun with it.  I do have a question regarding thethe proper method
to step the mast, here is my problem:

While stepping the mast with the boat on tehhe trailer, the centerboard
exis fully retracted with the whhich protrudes quite close to the poinstmast well (wherewhere
the Mmast rests on.  In order toI usuallyWhile holding the isis 19'29;' tall mast and walk toward
the fron andfront of the cockpitthe the front and raising the ing the mast,, th the bottom of the mast will have hit
either the center retracted centerboard or scrap few figribergalsslass off the
mast well (ouch!) before get to the point where I maycan raiseinsert it
into the notch.

Is this boar t designed to have the centerboard lowered when stepping
the mast (I may have to remove a roller off the trailer to do that)
or I am doing something wrong?

Thanks inI would like to solve this problem and t o o convince my wife that we"we"
didn't buyy a boat that is too big for us. Ha

Thnaks inanks in advance

jeff.
From: rodman@pkr.asd.sgi.com (Paul Rodman)
Newsgroups: rec.boats
Subject: Re: Around the world books
Date: 4 Sep 92 17:38:19 GMT
Reply-To: rodman@pkr.asd.sgi.com (Paul Rodman)
Organization: Silicon Graphics Inc.

In article <1992Sep4.143502.1@kean.ucs.mun.ca>, bjames@kean.ucs.mun.ca writes:
|> that time.  The writer is Tania Abei (sp?), but I can't think of the 
|> name of the book.  She wrote a series of articles for Cruising World 

"Maiden Voyage"

-- 
Paul K. Rodman            "Obsolete power corrupts obsoletely."
rodman@sgi.com                              -Ted Nelson
KA1ZA
From: ecf_stbo@jhuvms.hcf.jhu.edu (especially the mouth part of the face)
Newsgroups: rec.boats
Subject: Re: Awesome sailing last weekend, huh?
Date: 1 Sep 92 19:16:00 GMT
Organization: The Johns Hopkins University - HCF
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41

In article <1992Sep1.150928.19124@icd.teradyne.com>, burzycki@zax.eda.teradyne.com (Mike Burzycki) writes...
>Anybody out there do any sailing this past weekend in the Massachusetts area? 
>The wind was really howling both days, but I was only able to get out there on
>Sunday.  

I couldn't get out saturday (wedding shower/party), it was supposedly blowing
25 kts on the Chesapeake Bay. A few of us took the S2 out sunday with a couple
others meeting us out at bowleys light middle river on our 470. It was blowing
about 12 true at 1 p.m. We just had a 135 up on the S2 so we went over to
Miami Beach and achored (a lee shore, but what the hell, it's not like we were
going to leave the boat). After a while the 470 folks tied up behind us and me
and another guy went out. It was blowing 15-16 true by now and there was some
nice chop rolling in. He was out on the trapeze and we had a very wet fast ride
until my wrist couldn't take the mainsheet any more. We tied up and drank beer
for a while until it was time to head in. It was 18-19 true by this time and I
got to sail the dinghy in. God, what a great day! Not humid, not hot, not cold,
good wind... Lots of boats were out (quite a few overpowered). Couldn't really
improve upon it. It's hard to describe what a great boat the 470 has turned out
to be. I love it! 

Tom O'Toole - ecf_stbo@jhuvms.hcf.jhu.edu - JHUVMS system programmer 
Homewood Computing Facilities, Johns Hopkins University, Balto. Md. 21218 
> * OLX 2.1 * ease!Trim!eeeaaaassse!trimtrimTRIMeeeeeeeaaaaaasse!trimea
Newsgroups: rec.boats
From: larry@pdn.paradyne.com (Larry Swift)
Subject: Re: Bayliner myths: a challenge 
Organization: AT&T Paradyne, Largo, Florida
Date: Thu, 3 Sep 1992 12:08:54 GMT

In article <1992Sep1.112931.58547@cc.usu.edu> hal@kaos.declab.usu.edu (000200 Lynch) writes:
>	past or present Bayliner owner or have personal experience.
>	What feature(s) did you learn to hate?  Why?
>	State year and model.

My first time aboard one, I received a nasty cut from
the edge of a piece of raw acrylic that was supposed
to serve as a locker door.  Even when it was new, the
first time it bumped a dock, a dent was left in the
aluminum rub rail.  It was about 4 or 5 years old,
35 feet long, and I don't know the model.

I didn't consider it a very friendly boat.

Larry Swift                     larry@pdn.paradyne.com
AT&T Paradyne, LG-132           Phone: (813) 530-8605
8545 - 126th Avenue, North      Gulfstar 37, aft cockpit
Largo, FL, 34649-2826           She's old and she's creaky, but she holds!

Newsgroups: rec.boats
From: ronerwin@carson.u.washington.edu (Ron Erwin)
Subject: Re: Help Wanted!
Summary: Advice/info on Getting Engine Running/boat Seaworthy
Keywords: power,neglected,startup
Organization: University of Washington, Seattle
Distribution: na
Date: Mon, 31 Aug 1992 23:08:39 GMT


My Uncle has a 19foot fiberglass boat
	- Volvo/penta   120hp Gas engine
	- Inboard/output drive
	- trailered for over 5 years

My first thought is to check if the engine is frozen - turn the crankshaft
pulley nut.  Squirt some oil into the cylinders.  See if it turns.
 - if not  rebuild?

Then many things come up, electrical, ignition, carbueration, cooling, through
hull fittings ...

Another anomoly about this, five years ago, they installed a new battery
backwards and tried to start it up -details are sketchy on this episode.
Possible damage?  Alternator?  Voltage regulator?

I appreciate any info you have.

Thanks in advance!

Ron Erwin

Newsgroups: rec.boats
From: roy@alanine.phri.nyu.edu (Roy Smith)
Newsgroups: rec.boats
Subject: Re: Marine Binoculars
Date: 3 Sep 92 15:17:16 GMT
Organization: Public Health Research Institute (New York)

kaufmanj@ucs.orst.edu (John Kaufman) writes:
> I'm looking around for an inexpensive pair of marine binoculars that have
> a compass incorporated inside [...] Is it better in the long run to jump
> to the $600-800 range for Steiners?

	I've got a pair of Steiners, but only paid about $400 or so for
them.  It was definately a splurge item.  Sometimes I'm very happy I spent
the money (last night, for example, after one of my crew had been using
them to find an unlit mark, he wanted to know if they had light amplifiers
in them, the image was so bright).

	On the other hand, for the amount of money I spent on them, I'm
really not thrilled.  They don't have a compass light (the lighted model
was several hundred dollars more, which seemed outrageous; I'm currently
trying to design my own add-on light for them).  After only about 2 years
of relatively light use and good care, the compass broke and had to be
repaired (it had an air bubble and/or the bearing was sticking).  The dust
caps don't always stay on, and when they do, are sometimes difficult to get
off, and always seem to be in the way.  The removable eyecups sometimes
self-remove and get lost.  We don't treat it with kid gloves, but we don't
abuse it either, and considering they advertise these as "military
quality", I have visions of them being tossed around in the back of a jeep,
sloshed through the mud and rain, frozen, baked in the sun, covered with
salt water, etc, etc, and still working for many years.

	One non-obvious thing to know about compass binoculars is that some
have the compass in the left eye, some the right.  If you have one good eye
and one poor one, you may find this to be an overriding factor in selecting
a brand.

>             Fujinon poseidon  $299
>             Bushnell Navigator $299 (on sale)
>             Tasco ???         $199

	My experience with various bits of optical gear (admittedly, I'm
not an optics expert) is that the Bushnell and Tasco stuff tends to be
lower quality.  The Fuji's are probably fine, and all things considered, I
suspect are almost as good as the Steiners and a much better value for the
price.

	Sometimes I wish I had 6x's instead of 7x's.  I rarely find myself
wishing for more magnification, but often wish I had a steadier image, i.e.
the bouy I'm looking at is moving around so much I can't read the number.
A pair of 6x's with the same f-number (6x42?) would be smaller and lighter
(hence easier to hold for an extended period of time in an awkward place,
like laying on your back on the windward rail and ducking to see under the
boom), just as bright, and would provide a steadier image.

	Overall, compass binoculars are absolutely wonderful.  We don't
even have a hand-bearing compass on the boat anymore, we just use the
binocs To Take Bearings.
-- 
roy@wombat.phri.nyu.edu (Roy Smith)
Public Health Research Institute
455 First Avenue, New York, NY 10016, USA
"This never happened to Bart Simpson."
From: stramm@cs.ucsd.edu (Bernd Stramm)
Newsgroups: rec.boats
Subject: Single-handed race this year?
Summary: What happened?
Keywords: racing sail boats
Date: 31 Aug 92 20:07:54 GMT

Hi everyone.
Does anyone know what, if anything, happened to the single handed
transatlantic race this year?

	Bernd.

Bernd Stramm		| stramm%cs@ucsd.edu  or  stramm@cs.ucsd.edu
CSE Department		| bstramm@ucsd.bitnet
UC San Diego		| {who-can-tell}!ucsd!beowulf!stramm
From: billc@sextant.Eng.Sun.COM (Bill Courington)
Newsgroups: rec.boats
Subject: TPI Build Quality
Date: 2 Sep 92 10:03:42 GMT
Reply-To: billc@sextant.Eng.Sun.COM
Distribution: na
Organization: Sun Microsystems
NNTP-Posting-Host: sextant.eng.sun.com

In a review of the Alerion-Express, the current Practical Sailor 
states "Tillotson-Pearson has gained a reputation for high-quality 
construction, and the craftsmanship on the Alerion-Express 
maintains that standard.  This is a good-looking, well put 
together boat, with no rough edges and no sign (to our eye) of 
slipshod technique."  

I can't imagine the above statements would apply to the
J105 I recently inspected which evidenced sloppy glasswork
and joinery that didn't.  In fact, I believe that in an
earlier review of the J35, the same magazine said that the
boat's finish was just average.  (Note that I make no claim
that Jboat construction isn't sound or strong:  they just
seem indifferently finished.)  On the other hand, I believe
that TPI builds the Aldens and Freedoms, which Ferenc Mate
includes in his _World's Finest Yachts_ book.  What gives?
Does TPI build boats to different standards?  

BILL COURINGTON
From: mike@gilligan.East.Sun.COM (Mike Roncadori)
Newsgroups: rec.boats
Subject: Re: Beginner
Date: 27 Aug 1992 15:42:19 -0400
Organization: Sun Microsystems, Inc. - Vienna, Va.
NNTP-Posting-Host: gilligan.east.sun.com

In article <1992Aug27.184237.4739@porthos.cc.bellcore.com> dtp1@donner.uucp (80733-patricia) writes:
>I have been told that the two happiest days of a boat
>owners life are the day he buys his boat and the day
>he sells it.  Is this really true?  Is boating just
>one long maintenance schedule interspersed with 
>moments of joy on the water?    Is it really something
>you love to do and is maintaining the boat just part of
>it?  Or is it something you love to do and maitaining the
>boat is just a time/money consuming drag?  
>

I have also heard (and thought) the same thing, at times...

However, there are times when I'm out on the water that I think
"Now THIS is why I go to work...".

I guess alot of boaters bitch about their boats, but if you do
it right (take good care of your boat, not just repair it), and
purchase a quality boat to begin with, I think you'll find it
to be a very gratifying experience. I know that I would never
even consider giving up my time on the water. It keeps me sane.

Even the maintenance can be fun, if you are like me, and kind
of get into mechanical things. It gives me something to tinker
with.

-- Mike

-----------------------------------------------------------------
These are my views. Not my employer's.
From: reading2@vax.oxford.ac.uk
Newsgroups: rec.boats
Subject: Re: Mayday's and Channel 16 use (was Re: snow goose)
Date: 28 Aug 92 12:23:00 GMT
Organization: Oxford University VAX 6620

In article <ARO.92Aug24135140@csthor.aber.ac.uk>, aro@aber.ac.uk (Andrew Ormsby) writes:
> In article <1992Aug23.103000.396@mfie.atr.bso.nl> michiel@mfie.atr.bso.nl (Michiel Fierst van Wijnandsbergen) writes:
> 
> 
>>   DISTRESS means the vessel is in grave and imminent danger.
>>   Only the master or person in charge can authorise a distress
>>   call. The call is "Mayday Mayday Mayday".
>>
>>   URGENCY situations where the vessel is not in imminent danger
>>   but urgent help needed, such as man overboard or engine failure
>>   near a hazard. For urgent medical advice add "medico" or
>>   "radiomedical". The call is "PanPan PanPan PanPan".
> 
> According to the VHF radio operator's course I attended and the latest
> issue of the UK magazine "Yachting Monthly" this has changed. The
> definition of distress (where you are allowed to signal "MAYDAY") is
> now grave and imminent danger to the vessel (or any other craft) _or_
> a person.
> 
> My understanding is that this means it is now permissible to signal
> MAYDAY if you lose someone overboard, or (for example) you see someone
> about to drown on a sandbank whereas in the past this would have been
> strictly incorrect.
> 
> --
> Andy Ormsby, aro@aber.ac.uk

Well, the Marconi man who examined me was very indignant about this. He claimed
that this 'change in the rules' was entirely a figment of the RYA (Royal
Yachting Association) 's collective mind, and that it was causing considerable
irritation worldwide...


Ian Johnston (i_johnston @ uk.ac.open.acs.vax, NOT reading2 @ uk.ac.oxford.vax)
From: george@mech.seas.upenn.edu
Newsgroups: rec.boats
Subject: Re: Awesome sailing last weekend, huh?
Date: 2 Sep 92 04:24:22 GMT
Organization: University of Pennsylvania, Mechanical Engineering

:It was a little bit cool because a Sunfish is a really WET boat,
                                                        ^^^
the best kind!

:boat when all of a sudden SNAP! The mast sheared off about 1 foot above the 
:base.

I used to take delight sunfish-ing in the heaviest seas.  I broke tillers
left and right, but this is the first i've heard of a mast breaking.
Are they still aluminum? ( my boat was a 60's vintage i think )

Newsgroups: rec.boats
From: bartley@spss.com (Dennis Bartley)
Subject: Re: TPI Build Quality
Organization: SPSS Inc.
Distribution: na
Date: Wed, 2 Sep 1992 19:43:43 GMT

In article <la94buINN5nn@cronkite> billc@sextant.Eng.Sun.COM writes:
>In a review of the Alerion-Express, the current Practical Sailor 
>states "Tillotson-Pearson has gained a reputation for high-quality 
>construction, and the craftsmanship on the Alerion-Express 
>maintains that standard.  This is a good-looking, well put 
>together boat, with no rough edges and no sign (to our eye) of 
>slipshod technique."  
>
>I can't imagine the above statements would apply to the
>J105 I recently inspected which evidenced sloppy glasswork
>and joinery that didn't.  In fact, I believe that in an
>earlier review of the J35, the same magazine said that the
>boat's finish was just average.  (Note that I make no claim
>that Jboat construction isn't sound or strong:  they just
>seem indifferently finished.)  On the other hand, I believe
>that TPI builds the Aldens and Freedoms, which Ferenc Mate
>includes in his _World's Finest Yachts_ book.  What gives?
>Does TPI build boats to different standards?  
>

Certainly. The J 30 I have is a well built boat, and it's interior is
reasonably attractive, but it isn't an Alden. It isn't as expensive as
and Alden either. It might be interesting to compare the really large
Js (44s perhaps) with Aldens. They probably are a bit closer in
craftmanship.
From: mike@gilligan.East.Sun.COM (Mike Roncadori)
Newsgroups: rec.boats
Subject: Re: Bayliner myths: a challenge
Date: 3 Sep 1992 07:39:45 -0400
Organization: Sun Microsystems, Inc. - Vienna, Va.
Distribution: na
NNTP-Posting-Host: gilligan.east.sun.com

In article <1992Sep3.021622.28298@mdd.comm.mot.com> zintel@mdd.comm.mot.com (Mike Zintel) writes:
>Actually you are bashing Bayliners and their owners in a particularly
>arrogant way. This could be a problem for you if you don't recognize
>it. Better get help.

No, I'm saying "I never thought I'd say this, but..."

I didn't see anything about bayliner owners in my sentence.
If you are that sensitive about people's opinions of your
posessions, you could probably use some counseling yourself.

>
>Damn, this was the sort of behavior that I thought folks out
>grew with puberty or soon after. How long do we have ?

Speed != immaturity

As long as a person handles a fast boat SAFELY, then you should
have no problem with it. For the most part, you won't even see
my boat when it is at speed, because I don't haul butt around
other boats.

One can be an immature jackass in a canoe. It does not require
a big engine, just a lack of common sense.

BTW, we will never "grow up", if it means giving up things we
enjoy.

-- Mike

----------------------------------------------------------------
My employer didn't say this... I did.
From: daver@felix.filenet.com (Dave Richards)
Newsgroups: rec.boats
Subject: Re: Flares (was: Re: snow goose)
Date: 30 Aug 92 21:54:25 GMT
Article-I.D.: fritz.19821
Reply-To: daver@fritz.filenet.com (Dave Richards)
Distribution: usa
Organization: Costa Mesa, CA

->>It seems odd that Olin would recommend littering the waterway
->>with old toxic trash.

I wrote:
->Um, maybe I'm missing something, but what happens to the "toxic trash" when
->a flare is used normally for its intended purpose?  It seems to me that the
->waste products will end up in the air and water regardless (ultimately).

In article <1040@tekcae.cax.tek.com> paulh@tekcae.cax.tek.com (Paul Hammer) writes:
>Yes, you are missing something.  When the flare is used for its intended
>purpose then there in an emergency situation in progress, generally one
>in which loss of human life is a possibility.  The human community has
>decided that a wee bit of toxic trash is insignificant to save such life.
>
>On the other hand, the same community tends not to condone dumping such
>toxic trash simply because one doesn't know what else to do with it.

You only addressed one of the points raised.  If you don't fire it off,
how do you propose that one disposes of such potential toxic trash?  
(Let's assume we don't want the toxics to end up in the sea OR in inland
ground water.)

Dave
Newsgroups: rec.boats
From: bowers@rigel.dfrf.nasa.gov (Al Bowers)
Subject: Re: 1960 Chapmans, should I buy it? 
Organization: NASA Dryden, Edwards, Cal.
Date: Tue, 1 Sep 1992 16:23:37 GMT

In article <1992Aug31.090817.58519@cc.usu.edu> hal@kaos.declab.usu.edu (000200 Lynch) writes:

>As the subject said I have found a circa 1960 edition of Chapmans in a used
>book shop for $15.00.  Well perhaps it didn't say all that.  My interests
>other than curiosity are strictly those of an inland lake power boater.  

I bought a recent edition of Chapman's, I think I paid $27.00 for it
about two years ago.  It now belongs to my father.  I have an old
edition (my grandfather's from c. 1955).

>A
>quick perusal in the shop showed many items of immediate application and lots
>that would be fun to know.  The questions are this:
>        Is $15.00 a fair price?

Probably so.  The old editions contain information which is getting
harder and harder to find anymore.  Like what _do_ you call a 4 masted
ship which is square rigged on the forward three masts and
fore-and-aft rigged on the last sail?  An old issue of Chapman's will
identify it for you.

>        Does the information of interest to a boater such as myself change
>        enough to suggest a newer edition?

Yes.  Much of the info in the newer editions, if you should be
required to rely on it, has been updated.

A tradition in my family, is to hand down the old issue of Chapman's
to the younger generation.  A sort of a family heirloom.  Makes for
interesting reading, power or sail...

--
"Time is simply the illusion of the passing of history, and history is
simply the illusion of the passing of time..."
                                -The Hitch Hiker's Guide to the Galaxy
Iaido   Takamine   Hobie   Rossignol   Alfa GTV6  Ducati MHR(DOD #900)
From: thatchh@hplsla.hp.com (Thatch Harvey)
Date: Fri, 28 Aug 1992 21:05:00 GMT
Subject: Re: Beginner
Organization: HP Lake Stevens, WA