HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: crow@coos.dartmouth.edu (Preston F. Crow)
Newsgroups: rec.music.christian
Subject: What is art?  (was: What do you do when your child thinks Metallica is cool?)
Date: 17 Nov 92 21:56:19 GMT
Organization: Dartmouth College, Hanover, NH

caw@gtech.com (Christopher A. White) writes:
>>ajw@cbnews.cb.att.com (andrew.j.whitman) writes:
>>>                                   |
>>>                                   |
>>>                  Bad Message/     |        Good Message/
>>>                    Good Art       |          Good Art
>>>                                   |
>>>              ---------------------+-------------------------- 
>>>                                   |
>>>                  Bad Message/     |        Good Message/
>>>                    Bad Art        |          Bad Art
>>>                                   |

>I've brought this up before, too, but what constitutes Good art/bad art?
>I'm with Tolstoy on his universality theory, namely, that the more effort
>or education that is required to appreciate a piece of art, the less
>likely it is that it is art. 

>In regards to lyrics (or poetry for that matter), I am really offended by
>people who think that if you can't figure out what they're talking about
>then it must be art. Now, I'm not in favor that only the completely 
>obvious is art. What I am saying is that the amount of effort required
>to understand it is a mitigating factor. Therefore, since Shakespear
>doesn't translate well and requires a bit of effort to understand, it
>needs to be *that much better* to be considered on par with something 
>that does. Personally, I don't think Will has anything to worry about
>in that department.

I would tend to disagree here.  I find that the more of a challenge a
song is to understand, the more I enjoy it.  The songs that I listen to
the most are the ones that I have trouble understanding.  Once I know
what's being said or can fully anticipate the music, I am no longer as
excited about the song.

I find that the element of mystery is very important to my enjoyment
of music.  Taken simplisticly, it can be achieved for a limited time
by making the literal words hard to understand.  At a higher level,
the mystery can be extended by making the meaning of the words less
than obvious.

Of course, this can be taken too far and the message can be lost,
leaving behind a "song" consisting entirely of randomness.  Still,
the best art is not that which is easily understood, but that which
maintains interest as the listener struggles to understand.  Art
without thought is dead.  [In fact, most anything without thought
is dead.  Taken to an extreme, lack of brain activity is death.  :-)]

--PC

--
"And he [Christopher Robin] respects Owl, because you can't help respecting
anybody who can spell TUESDAY, even if he doesn't spell it right; but spelling
isn't everything.  There are days when spelling Tuesday just doesn't matter." 
-- _The House at Pooh Corner_ by A.A. Milne
Newsgroups: rec.music.christian
Subject: Re: TANGENT: Re: "We Will Stand" stolen by Clinton
From: jsteiner@anwsun.phya.utoledo.edu (jason 'Think!' steiner)
Date: 18 Nov 92 16:52:00 EST
X-Newsreader: Tin 1.1 PL4

mooras@crockett1b.its.rpi.edu (Steve 'War Axe' Mooradian) writes:
> 
> 	Everytime someone comments on on anything anymore they forget the 
> 	points originally raised. All right, now myself and a few others 
> 	displayed mild disgust at the Word of God being used as a tool for 
> 	political satire. I haven't seen anyone disagree with the actual 
> 	political satire itself, only the vehicle poorly chosen to convey 
> 	it. Now here's the thing that ticks me off. Everyone so far who 
> 	defends this 'humorous' article keeps blabbing about Republicans 
> 	and Clinton and satire and this and that. I say "WHAT THE HECK ARE 
> 	YOU YAPPIN' ABOUT?" The point is the Bible was mocked so 
> 	Republican Christians could be mocked. This is blatently wrong, 
> 	and so far noone has justified (and never will) the Word slicing 
> 	that was done to the Bible. Why can't some of you understand that 
> 	we're not talking about the political satire, we're talking about 
> 	the political satire's vehicle! GET IT THROUGH THOSE THICK 
> 	COMPUTER DAZED HEADS OF YOURS!!!!!!!!!!!!!

the Bible was not mocked. a bit of irony was used to point out the 
absurdities of a few misguided beliefs. not only do you not 
understand, but you insist that the rest of us should misunderstand 
exactly as you do. the people you are judging have not posted wild
personal attacks. you have.

> 	Now, NO MORE!!!!! NO MORE POLITICS IN THIS SUB!!!!!!!!! If you 
> 	want to talk politics go somewhere else. The point about Clinton 
> 	stealing a Christian song has long, LONG, *LONG* left *this* 
> 	discussion, SO GIVE IT UP PEOPLE!!!!

thank you Mr. Net Cop.

you are the first person i have ever encountered on r.m.c who is 
completely unwilling to even discuss things. not only that, but you 
have made so bold as to -demand- that certain people who do not agree 
with you stop posting to this group. this is the sort of trash that i 
routinely skip on groups like rec.music.industrial. 

you now have the dubious honor of being the first person from r.m.c
to get an entry in my killfile.

good day,
jason

--
`,`,`,`,`,`,`,`,`,`,`,`,`,`,`,`,`,`,`,`,`,`,`,`,`,`,`,`,`,`,`,`,`,`,`,`,`,`
`,`  If you want to smile - smile. Let people think you're nuts. We're  `,`
`,`  all a little nuts. Nuts is fun. Nuts keeps people wondering. Nuts  `,`
`,`  stay crunchy in milk!          smm@rodan.UU.NET (Steve Mansfield)  `,`
`,`,`,`,`,`,`,`,`,`,`,`,`,`,`,`,`,` jsteiner@anwsun.phya.utoledo.edu ,`,`,`
Newsgroups: rec.music.christian
From: caw@gtech.com (Christopher A. White)
Subject: Re: What do you do when your child thinks Metallica is cool?
Organization: GTECH Corporation, West Greenwich, RI
Date: Mon, 16 Nov 1992 22:56:38 GMT

In article <1e0sq4INNpjs@transfer.stratus.com> markc@eomer.hw.stratus.com (Mark Christensen) writes:
>In article <97487@netnews.upenn.edu> crawford@ben.dev.upenn.edu (Lauren L. Crawford) writes:
>>In article <nestabro.721661764@nova> nestabro@nova.gmi.edu (Noel Estabrook) writes:
>>
>>>One of the most faulty arguments for "secular" things is that, "well, they
>>>talk about _real_ life, and _real_ problems that we can't just _hide_
>>>from."  I got news - Scripture talks about every important problem there is,
>>>and gives the solution for it.  If that ain't real life, nothin' is.
>
>If the readers disagree with my assertions about Christian rock (see
>past postings), can they not at least agree that all music should be
>for the praise, honor, and glory to God?  And IF (notice the BIG IF),
>you agree with this, then shouldn't music with the main intent on
>developing social issues rather than keeping our eyes on the Lord be
>unedifying? 

Not to say I'm agrreing, but IF I were to accept that, I'd find the opposite
to be more likely true than what you stated. To go back to one of your
previous posts, "obedience is better than sacrafice." Taking that into
context, we found that the Israelites were doing everything right in 
church, offering their sacrafices, singing their hymns, obeying the letter
of the law; they were not doing what God set out for them to do. It is
*far* better, I believe, to take on issues of social injustice, dissease,
hunger, fear and desperation than it is to sit in church and sing praises
to God. To sit and praise God and let your brother go hungry is highly
unedifying. And I believe most strongly that music to keep your eyes
on the Lord, really, truly on the Lord, can't help but focus on 
developing social issues.


Topher
-- 
 Christopher A. White                    | 
 caw@gtech.com                           | Free will is largely overrated. 
 GTech Corporation, West Greenwich, RI   | 
 The opinions expressed are mine alone   |           - Topher
From: mmaccorm@fox.nstn.ns.ca (Mike Mac Cormack)
Newsgroups: rec.music.christian
Subject: Re: Arlen Salte
Date: 16 Nov 92 20:07:13 GMT
Distribution: na
Organization: Micronav International

In article <1992Nov12.193550.25976@mdd.comm.mot.com> moss@mdd.comm.mot.com (Barry Moss) writes:
>I'm curious to know if there are any other Arlen Salte fans out there
>on r.a.c. Arlen is based out of Edmonton, Alberta (Canada) and permorms
>mostly in Canada, but I know that he's toured in the US as well. I saw one
>of his albums (Here I Stand) in a San Jose bookstore a couple of years
>back when I was visiting the area, so I know he's had some exposure in 
>the US too.

>So, has anyone else heard of Arlen before? Seen him perform? Actually 
>purchased one of his albums? Even care about this topic? Inquiring
>minds want to know! :-)

>Disclaimer: I've enjoyed Arlen's music and ministry enough to book him 
>and his band Heart Attack into a couple of youth conferences I orgainized 
>a couple of years back.


>-- 
>Barry Moss                              (604) 277-1511
>Motorola: Mobile Data Division, 11411 Number Five Road
>Richmond, BC, Canada  V7A 4Z3
>Disclaimer: These opinions are my own, not those of Motorola.


I also like Arlen Salte's music.  I have 3 of his albumns.  Does anyone know 
if he will be touring Maritime Canada in the near future?  I'm sure our 
youth group would enjoy him.

God Bless

Mike Mac Cormack
Micronav International Inc
P.O.Box 1523 / 104 Marine Drive
Sydport Industrial Park,
Sydney, N.S. Canada B1P 6R7
Tel: 902-564-8833      Fax: 902-564-8764
From: arthur.marsh@f812.n800.z3.fido.zeta.org.au (Arthur Marsh)
Newsgroups: rec.music.christian
Subject: FAQ: Daniel Amos albums.
Date: 10 Nov 92 02:05:29 GMT
Organization: Fidonet. Gate admin is fido@socs.uts.edu.au

The double CD "No sense of history/Shirley, goodness and misery" on the
Alternative/Stunt label (available from Long's Christian Music) contains the
following DA tracks:

        Like Lazarus
        Stones of Venice
        So Certain
        Little Things
        Off My Mind
        Fairy Tale
        Only One
        Laissez-Faire

Also on the albums are tracks by former DA member Rob Watson, the 77s and
Steve Scott.

God bless,
 
Arthur.

--- msgedsq 2.1
 * Origin: Camelot Swamp MJCNA, Hawthorndene, Sth Australia (3:800/812)
Newsgroups: rec.music.christian
From: rdale@nyx.cs.du.edu (Robert P Dale)
Subject: Re: Geoff Moore & the Distance
Organization: Nyx, Public Access Unix at U. of Denver Math/CS dept.
Date: Sat, 21 Nov 92 03:04:07 GMT

I first heard of the group when I was at a volleyball tournament /
concert in Markle,IN last summer and was not really looking forward
to the concert portion of the event at first.  But once the concert
got going I really enjoyed their music and that excitement was
felt by all the various ages represented at the church.  I hear them
fairly often on Toledo's (new) CCM station and am glad to see
they're still hanging in there.

Rob
--
Robert P. Dale                          <>      rdale@attserv.atms.purdue.edu
University of Toledo                    <>      74010.302@compuserve.com
Meteorology/Emergency Services          <>      N8GSK@K9IU.IN.USA.NOAM
Newsgroups: rec.music.christian
From: tef@sei.cmu.edu (Tracey Fox)
Subject: Re: What do you do when your child thinks Metallica is cool?
Organization: The Software Engineering Institute
Date: Mon, 23 Nov 1992 01:27:19 GMT


In article <1992Nov22.162408.23304@midway.uchicago.edu>, tsh2@ellis.uchicago.edu (Jennifer Jo) writes:
|> Have you ever read the lyrics to metallica songs?  Why don't you sometime?  They print the lyrics on their jacket sleeves, as they have nothing to hide.  In fact, some of us philistines even think they're pretty thoughtful lyrics...
|> 
|> 
|> -- 
|> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~  Tad S. Hwang
|> "What happened to that nice decent boy I used |  tsh2@midway.uchicago.edu
|>    to know...?"                               |  the university of chicago
|>         -leslie wintheiser                    |


Have you ever read the lyrics to 'Slow Train Coming' by Bob Dylan?  They're
pretty THOUGHTFUL lyrics, too, but I don't believe he's anymore sincere
towards the Lord than Metallica!  I think that particular album (STC) came
from the pit of hell, especially the song, "Man Gave Names to all the
Animals".  The lyrics in the last verse are VERY SUBTLE.  The words appear
theological correct from a Judeo/Christian context, but the spirit behind them
is NOT.  Maybe he's acknowledged by the world and the music industry as a
great secular artist, poet, and musician but spiritually speaking, IMHO, he's
just as philistine as Metallica.

Jesus taught us to take heed to what we hear, and that includes the music we
listen to!!!


Newsgroups: rec.music.christian
From: Tom Moellering <moeller@convex.com>
Subject: Kerry Livgren & Kansas (was Re: Rachel,Rachel)
Originator: moeller@neptune.convex.com
Date: Tue, 17 Nov 1992 20:01:57 GMT
Distribution: usa
Reply-To: moeller@convex.com (Tom Moellering)
Organization: Engineering, CONVEX Computer Corp., Richardson, Tx., USA
X-Disclaimer: This message was written by a user at CONVEX Computer
              Corp. The opinions expressed are those of the user and
              not necessarily those of CONVEX.

In article <BxpzGx.FCJ@news.cso.uiuc.edu> cwf50862@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (The Last Bard) writes:
>I heard that Kerry wrote the song shortly before his conversion and reflects
>his thoughts about that time, to me it seemed as if he was writting/singing
>about how he needed to find an answer for his spritual needs.
>
>Does anyone know of Jon and Dino Elephante were in Kansas at the same time
>as Kerry and does anyone know when Kerry left?

Well I can't comment on the first, and I am worried to comment on the second
after my track-record with Kansas so far in this newsgroup ;-)  But:

I believe Jon and Dino (actually just one of them, the other wrote songs
for, but was not *in* Kansas) were with Kansas for 2 albums:  Vinyl Confessions
and Drastic Measures.

Those also were Kerry's last 2 Kansas albums.

Until this week that is ;-)
I was at Target, and saw a new Kansas album, called: Kansas: Live at The Whiskey.
With special appearances by Kerry Livgren.

No I haven't heard it, and am curious if it would be worth my while to pick up.
Anybody got any info, opinions, rumors, facts? ;-)

--
Tom (moeller@convex.com)
            "What would you say if you knew what I was thinking?"
                   River On Fire / Adam Again / Dig
Newsgroups: rec.music.christian
From: young_dick@macmail2.rtsg.mot.com (Dick Young)
Subject: Re: Rachel,Rachel, (Kansas, POKR, Kerry Livgren, etc.)
Organization: Motorola, Inc. (Cellular Infrastructure)
Distribution: usa
Date: Tue, 17 Nov 1992 18:19:16 GMT

In article <BxpzGx.FCJ@news.cso.uiuc.edu>, cwf50862@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (The Last Bard) writes:
> 
> I heard that Kerry wrote the song shortly before his conversion and reflects
> his thoughts about that time, to me it seemed as if he was writting/singing
> about how he needed to find an answer for his spritual needs.
> 
> Does anyone know of Jon and Dino Elephante were in Kansas at the same time
> as Kerry and does anyone know when Kerry left?
> 
> chip fay
> 
> ###############################################################################
> Chip Fay                                    In a dream, in a vision of the
> cwf50862@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu         **        night, when deep sleep falls on men
> 				******      as they slumber in their beds, he 
> 				******      may speak in their ears and terrify
> 			          **	    them with warnings, to turn man 
> 			          **	    from wrongdoing and keep him from
> 					    pride.       Job 33:15-17
> ###############################################################################
> 
>
Chip,
Jon Elephante became the lead vocalist of Kansas on the Vinyl Confessions album,
following the departure of Steve Walsh.  I know that he was also on Drastic
Measures, and that I have heard him in a song called "Perfect Lover" which I
think was a later Kansas tune.

Kerry was in until Drastic Measures, then he left...at that point, so did my
interest:  I knew it would never be close to the same stuff which moved me so 
deeply during the 70s and early 80s, so I've not bought another Kansas release
since.  (Nothing against Steve Morse, by the way...the guy is a flat-out
AWSOME guitarist.)

Many years have come and gone...now I think Kerry is touring with Kansas again,
but I have NO idea what the line-up is, or what songs they are playing...
ANY RELIABLE SOURCES WISH TO SPEAK UP ?

Dick Young
Motorola, Inc.
Arlington Heights, IL
From: drees@plains.NoDak.edu (Steve Drees)
Newsgroups: rec.music.christian
Subject: Re: Album Review - Bride
Date: 18 Nov 92 15:35:59 GMT
Article-I.D.: ns1.Bxx4nz.BK9
Organization: North Dakota Higher Education Computing Network

In article <1992Nov17.222624.24744@wheaton.wheaton.edu> rmbenn@david.wheaton.edu (Richard M. Bennema) writes:
>I've had pretty good luck lately in picking out new CD's and I have decided to
>share one of my findings with this group...
>
>
>Bride, "Snakes in the Playground"
[snip]
>Bride is one of the older Christian heavy metal groups, but don't dig too
>deeply into their past because, well frankly, they stunk.

Whoop! Whooooop! Blatant personal opinion alert!

I think Show No Mercy and Live To Die were the best albums that Bride ever
did. After that it was all down hill.

>Richard M. Bennema		"The brain can be seen as a complex machine,



-- 
+-----------------------+------------------------------------------------+
|Steve Drees            | keeper of apple2 directory on plains.nodak.edu.|  
|drees@plains.Nodak.Edu | Computer Science senior at UND. Please hire me.| 
| "What about Headman Shabalala? Doesn't anybody care about justice?"-AA |
+-----------------------+------------------------------------------------+
Newsgroups: rec.music.christian
From: hendefd@mail.auburn.edu (Frank Henderson)
Subject: Whiteheart in Huntsville, AL ?
Reply-To: hendefd@mail.auburn.edu
Organization: Auburn University
Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1992 17:33:45 GMT


Does anyone have any details on the Whiteheart/Rachel Rachel concert
that's supposed to be in Huntsville, AL this weekend?  I have a friend
in Huntsville who has called radio stations and bookstores and no one
seems to have heard anything about it.

thanks,
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Frank Henderson                       E-mail: hendefd@tech.duc.auburn.edu
Network Technical Support             Auburn University, Auburn, AL       
 
When your world is shaking
The Word of God will stand
When you need unfailing love
Check out the nailprints in His hand!  --  Bash-N-The-Code
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Newsgroups: rec.music.christian
From: tcryal@iastate.edu (Ford Prefect)
Subject: White Heart
Organization: Iowa State University, Ames IA
Date: Wed, 18 Nov 1992 18:43:17 GMT

Hello all,
     I heard some news about White Heart this week from a source that I
have no way to verify, so I was wondering if anyone could confirm or correct
this information.
     First, I heard that Ricke Florian will not be touring again after this
tour (Tales of Wonder) is over.  Also is drummer Jon Knox leaving to go back
to his old band?  I'd appreciate any clarification of these questions.

                                       Tod
-- 
+=-=+=-=+=-=+=-=+=-=+=-=+=-=+=-=+=-=+=-=+=-=+=-=+=-=+=-=+=-=+=-=+=-=+=-=+=-=+
| tcryal@vincent1.iastate.edu *or* tnd11@isuvax.iastate.edu                 | 
| This .sig under construction.  (Stupid and tacky, I know, so sue me.)     |
+=-=+=-=+=-=+=-=+=-=+=-=+=-=+=-=+=-=+=-=+=-=+=-=+=-=+=-=+=-=+=-=+=-=+=-=+=-=+
Newsgroups: rec.music.christian
Subject: Re: Bob Dylan's "Slow Train Coming"
From: jsteiner@anwsun.phya.utoledo.edu (jason 'Think!' steiner)
Date: 23 Nov 92 18:51:08 EST
X-Newsreader: Tin 1.1 PL4

tef@sei.cmu.edu (Tracey Fox) writes:
> 
> Sorry my words offended you, Andy (or anyone else) ... but it 
> really was something I believed in my heart.

this sounds like an Evangelism Explosion role-playing session.
Q: "But what does it matter what I believe, as long as I'm sincere?"
A: "People have been known to be sincerely wrong."

> I can't prove anything, but isn't that the nature of faith: it's a 
> statement of what you believe.

i believe the correct term for that is "-blind- faith".

> Any if you think I have wronged Dylan (which obviously you have), 
> then the Lord will fight his battle, not you!  

"And if you think abortion providers have wronged children (which
some of you obviously do), then the Lord will fight their battles,
not you!"

please don't insult us with pious & thoughtless talk. Christians are 
God's tools. sometimes he uses us, inferior as we are, to fight his 
battles.

> Maybe the problem is I don't have enough love in my heart as you 
> Andy.

and now sarcasm. *tsk tsk* whatever shall we do?

jason

--
`,`,`,`,`,`,`,`,`,`,`,`,`,`,`,`,`,`,`,`,`,`,`,`,`,`,`,`,`,`,`,`,`,`,`,`,`,`
`,`       "Are you hallucinating?" "Oh yes, but not right now."         `,`
`,`         - Ed Chigliak & Joel Fleishmann, Northern Exposure          `,`
`,`,`,`,`,`,`,`,`,`,`,`,`,`,`,`,`,` jsteiner@anwsun.phya.utoledo.edu ,`,`,`
Newsgroups: rec.music.christian
From: caw@gtech.com (Christopher A. White)
Subject: Re: What do you do when your child thinks Metallica is cool?
Organization: GTECH Corporation, West Greenwich, RI
Date: Mon, 16 Nov 1992 23:15:24 GMT

In article <97829@netnews.upenn.edu> crawford@ben.dev.upenn.edu (Lauren L. Crawford) writes:
>In article <nauman.721919816@hq> nauman@Pt.hq.af.mil (Stratton D Nauman) writes:
>
>>4.  Forbid them to listen to Secular music.
>
>Lets hope your kids don't develop a taste for Mozart or Lawrence Welk. 
>Particularly the latter.

I'm sure that continual prayer will help short out the child's bubble machine.


Topher (and a one and a two ...)
-- 
 Christopher A. White                    | 
 caw@gtech.com                           | Free will is largely overrated. 
 GTech Corporation, West Greenwich, RI   | 
 The opinions expressed are mine alone   |           - Topher
Newsgroups: rec.music.christian
From: phoenix@cwis.unomaha.edu (Shannon Chris Saltzman)
Subject: Request for serious consideration
Organization: University of Nebraska at Omaha
Date: Tue, 17 Nov 1992 01:45:47 GMT

How would you like to start a band to honor Satan?
Me neither, its been done.
I would however like to start a band that would rival
Metallica with its sound and seriousness in lyrics.
I f you would be interested in this idea please e-mail me
(as it takes ayear for my computer to load this group up(not
something I wish to do more than once every other day))
I went to a metallica concert and all I could think of while I
was there was how many people they had in compariison to my
favorite group Petra. I will not debate theology so dont even try.
I am merely interested in starting a band. If anyone else thinks they
have got what it takes to rival metallica in their own style of music
do it !! I will buy all your albums.
Very few of Metallicas songs can be called christian in lyrics(there are
some) but I dont see why they cant be made that way.

-- 
From the coffee table of MR SHANNON SALTZMAN
"Is doggie heavan kitty hell?"
     Stephanie Phoenix(age 6)
This in everyway represents the authors opinion!!!(take it if ya want)
Newsgroups: rec.music.christian