From: yaser@uxh.cso.uiuc.edu (Ala)
Subject: Re: Is there an interpreter in the house?
Organization: University of Illinois at Urbana
Date: Wed, 27 Jan 1993 19:50:19 GMT

aref@Tehran.Stanford.EDU (Modda'iyeh har hAzer va Vakileh har ghAyeb) writes:

>In article <C1A006.JEA@news.cso.uiuc.edu> 
>yaser@uxh.cso.uiuc.edu (Ala) writes:

>>>>I do think that IRANI girls ARE too good for Americans.
>>>>But again I am talking about IRANI and not so called Persian-Americans.
>>>>In general I am against dating and casual relationships.
>>>>It seriusly contradicts our culture.
>>>>This, I know, is not only MY opinion.
>>>>
>>>>Ala
>>
>>
>>>Attitudes as such, judging people and generalizing about them because of
>>>the color of their passport are as old as all other forms of bigotry and
>>>prejudice.
>>
>[alpha]
>>I did not judge anyone on the personal level.  I made an statement based
>>on general characteristcs and cultural values of two different systems.
>>Not two different countries or two different races and not even two
>>different languages.  An IRANI girl is after entering warmth and security
>>of a family.  from young ages they are after a good husband, someone they
>>can share they moments of life with.  They are after permanent relationships
>>raising kids and promoting family values.ng

>That is exactly the issue. Had you judged a particular person on  the 
>personal level; well it could be that you know that person real well and
>know what (s)he is up to. But no! You generalized about two entire nations
>with such variety and diversity in both of them that one can invalidate
>any generalization by a simple example of the opposite. 


I do not think so.
Iran's culture is obviously VERY different than this culture.
While dating and casual relationships is widely accepted here,
A
>>What is the goal of a typical American boy?

>I don't know. Ask the typical American boy when you find such a person.

C'mon.


>>Certainly having a family is last in their agenda.  After overusing their
>>sexual powers and getting tired of chasing girls, they are usually forced
>>into entering a mariage that does not usually last very long.

>Hmmm let me see. So that means that Iranian boys never ever think of
>sexual issues and never chase any girls. hahahaha! Did you ever
>attend high school in Iran?

There is no problem in people of the opposite sex to know each other.
How eles they can get married?  I did not oppose to that.
My problem is in casual sexual relationships.  For someone to constantly
in search of a new partner.  I do not think this have ever been widespread
in Iran.

>I have never heard of any American *forced* into a marriage. I know of
>many Iranians who have been forced into marriages. Ask any Iranian
>grandmother who was married at age 9 or 10.

I did not say they are forced by someone to get married.

>>Sure there are exceptions.  Americans that honor family values and Iranians
>>who does not and I did not mean to generalize this rule.

>But you did. Even in this very same post you did. Read the paragraph 
>marked [alpha] above.



>>Rather I am pointing to the difference in the expectations from life.
>>I have three of my cousins married to Americans and judging from their
>>lives they do not look happy at all.  At the same time I know Iraninas
>>that are married to Americans and are very happy.  In these cases, I have
>>noticed, Americans are very interested in Iranian culture.

>Well then, using your own examples, we can see that we can't generalize.


>>I am not sure you know what you are talking about.  Who did I label?

>The typical American boy and the typical IRANI girl.

>>Why are you so upset about my criticism of this culture.  This society
>>is GOING DOWN TO HELL and I as an proud IRANI have all the rights to
>>express my ideas about my own culture and differences with this one.

>I am not upset about your criticism of this culture, if one cares to
>characterize that as a criticism. But your "criticism" is based on 
>the "Iranian culture is superior" theme - which is invalid in my
>opinion. And about your rights to express your ideas:
>You sure do, regardless of your background. No one is arguing 
>against that.

It is not only invalid in your opinion.  Look around.
This is exactly the problem I am talking about.  Iraninas
are not aware of their caultural values and that is why they are submitting
to this culture.


>>Without any doubt Iranian culture is way superior to theAmerican culture
>>in many respects among which is the way we look at the world, our
>>expectation from life, the way we treat our family, our elderly, the
>>way we eat, what we eat, the way we socialize, the way we celebrate
>>our hollidays and etc.

>In my opinion: nonesense. There are good and bad aspects to both cultures.
>Of course "good" and "bad" is probably defined by every person for 
>themselves. In many apsects Iranian culture is superior to American
>culture and in many aspects it is inferior to American culture. BTW,
>what are Iranian culture and American culture? Can you give definitions?

If you cannot figure this one out yourself then my explanations are not going to
help either.


>>Let me tell you what is sad.
>>It is sad that today we are witnessing people who call themselves IRANI
>>but the only thing they have retained from their Iranian-ness is their
>>name (in many cases this is not even true).  many of them shameful for
>>being Irani called themselves Persians and at best tried to be agood
>>Persian-American (Ajab ma'joone bee mosammaa'ee).
>>Yes, it is indeed sad to witness awhole generation of Iranian immigrants
>>going down the American drain.

>I take it that you are not generalizing and are referring to certain
>people or groups of people that you know of. 

I am talking about Iranian immigrants in general.

>>Your concern about major rdneckness against Americans only seems to be
>>another characteristic of a person assimilated into this society.

>I see. Another generalization?. Being assimilated into this society
>does not necessarily mean you have given up all your original 
>values and beliefs. This society is a sum made up of its smaller 
>pieces. Those pieces come from all parts of the world. From Tehran,
>Mashhad, Esfahan, Ahvaz, Kabul, Karachi Bombay, Mexico City, 
>Berlin, Cairo, Buenos Aires, Tokyo, Moscow ...etc...

>I think there is a lot for me to learn from these people and try
>to change and be a better person. You (and anyone else) are more
>than welcome to keep your own ways. 

There is nothingwrong with learning from Americans.  That is why
a large number of Iranians here for.  What is wrong is loosing
ones identity.  I certainly try my best to keep mine.


>>Let's try to be IRANI they way Iranians have always been not they way
>>we are told to be.

>PLEASE tell us how that is. How can one be such an IRANI? I don't
>recollect anyone telling me how to be IRANI. Until now, of course.

Are you suggesting that nothing is wrong?
If that is the case then our discussion is pointless.


>Aref


Ala