HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: marks@ssdevo.enet.dec.com (Randy Marks)
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
Subject: Re: taped seams
Date: 26 Aug 92 21:20:25 GMT
Distribution: na
Organization: Digital Equipment Corp. - Colorado Springs


In article <1546@cogsci.ucsd.EDU>, baldwin@cogsci.ucsd.EDU (Ken Baldwin) writes...
>Quality waterproof products usually have seams sealed with
>a clear tape. Does anyone know if it's possible to by this
>tape for use on home-made products? (More precisely, can
>anyone recommend a good source?) I have in mind something which
>could be heat-sealed on with an iron, for example. Thanks.

Try Outdoor Wilderness Fabrics (208)466-1602

Randy Marks
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(INTERNET)              marks@ssdevo.enet.dec.com
(domain-based INTERNET) marks%ssdevo.enet@decwrl.dec.com
..........................................................................
	"No man's life, liberty, or property is safe
	while the legislature is in session."
..........................................................................
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
From: AS.MSW@forsythe.stanford.edu (Marc Whitney)
Subject: Re: Good hikes in the Western Sierra
Organization: Stanford University, California, USA
Distribution: usa
Date: Mon, 31 Aug 1992 18:03:29 GMT

In article <1992Aug31.162908.28450@csi.jpl.nasa.gov>,
mark@csi.jpl.nasa.gov (Mark Webster) writes:
>
>In a couple of weeks, I'm going up somewhere into the Eastern Sierra.  I would
>like to make this into a combination 4 wheeling/backpacking trip.  My optimal
>trip would be to get up there somewhere in the National Forest, get on a Jeep
>trail (one that requires 4 wheel drive and high clearance), get a jump on
>getting into the backcountry, then come to some sort of trailhead that heads
>into the John Muir Wilderness, the Golden Trout Wilderness, Kings Canyon NP,
>or Sequoia NP and pack in from there.  Does anyone know a place where I can do
>this.  I have a trail guide for the Southern Sierra and a Jeep trail guide as
>well. These usually don't give combo trips though. Can anyone help me out?
>
Frankly, I can't think of any eastern Sierra trailheads that require
4WD.  The eastern escarpment is so abrupt that the drive in from
US395 is pretty short.  Also, I suspect that the NFS has concoiusly
made the trailheads 2WD accessable.
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
From: pmh@cs.brown.edu (Philip M. Hubbard)
Subject: boots
Organization: Brown University Department of Computer Science
Date: Thu, 27 Aug 1992 14:14:09 GMT

I recently returned from backpacking in Alaska.  The trip was great, but I
was somewhat disappointed with my leather hiking boots.  Even though I
covered them thoroughly with Sno-Seal, they still leaked a considerable
amount of water.

I am now considering buying a new pair of boots.  I have a few ideas about
what I might buy, but I would love to hear any advice from people out there.
The two options I have thought of so far are as follows:

1. Buy a pair of L.L. Bean's Maine Hunting Boots and replace their
rounded-bottom soles with Vibram soles.  A friend of mine who is a ranger at
Denali says some of his fellow rangers like this approach because the Bean
boots are quite waterproof.  But how comfortable are Bean boots for hiking?

2. Buy a pair of light-weight (i.e., not all leather) hiking boots and a pair
of Gore-Tex socks to make them more waterproof.  I have a few concerns about
this chioce, though.  Are Gore-Tex socks really waterproof and comfortable in
field conditions?  Which light-weight boots are the best?  Do the Gore-Tex
boots remain at all waterproof and/or breathable when they get muddy?

I know little about Gore-Tex socks and boots, so I would particularly
appreciate advice on those topics.  Thanks in advance.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
             "I ain't broke but I'm badly bent."  -- Willie Dixon
Philip Martyn Hubbard:   pmh@cs.brown.edu, pmh@browncs.bitnet, uunet!brunix!pmh
From: mark@csi.jpl.nasa.gov (Mark Webster)
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
Subject: Re: Good hikes in the Western Sierra
Keywords: 4wd, hiking
Date: 31 Aug 92 17:26:40 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: Jet Propulsion Laboratory
Originator: mark@morningstar


Actually I'm hiking in the Western Sierra.  Also are there permits that I need
to get?

Mark
From: lindemanbria@bvc.edu
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
Subject: ?: Land Between the Lakes (KY)
Date: 23 Aug 92 14:05:15 CDT
Organization: Buena Vista College, Storm Lake, IA

I wonder if anyone out there in computer land could give me some 
information/advice about camping in Kentucky's Land Between the Lakes?  I 
am in the initial stages of planning a 5-day trip for about ten people.  We 
would like to find a site that we can drive to, while still being as 
primitive as possible.  An address to write and request detailed information 
would be particularly useful.

Thoughts about the LBTL as a camping area or places to hike would also 
be appreciated.  Given the recent discussion, do you know if dogs are 
allowed?  How about sasquatchi?  Responses can be E-mailed to the address 
below.  Thanks in advance!

-- 
Brian Lindeman
BLINDEMAN@ais.smith.edu
LINDEMANBRIA@bvc.edu
I wanna be sedated.
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
From: "thomas baker" <thomas.baker@execnet.com>
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
Subject: msr/coleman stoves
Date: 31 Aug 92 23:46:55 EST
Reply-To: "thomas baker" <thomas.baker@execnet.com>
Distribution: rec
Organization: Executive Networks Information


CF>This all makes me wonder about the difference between the Colman and the
CF>MSR.  Is the real difference between the two fuel bottle pressure?
CF>If this is true it'd be nice to have a little pressure indicator.

CF>There is another question that I'd like to bring up:  Do you have to
CF>continually pump the Peak stoves to keep them burning hot?

I'm new to both this group and backpacking so I  can't say  much about 
the bottle pressure. However I recently bought a Coleman Peak  1. They 
tell me it's a new model, not the  ones that  are one  piece. This  is 
called the "Apex" detached one burner stove. Weight  is slightly  less 
than the other earlier Peak 1s' at 18.6 Oz, dry.   Beyond the  initial 
pressure required to light it I've found I need no  additional pumping 
at all. I have noted it needs a little care in adjusting the flame  at 
first lighting.  I almost always get a strong yellow flame  (which the 
directions caution about) until I adjust the flame down a bit.  I keep 
it low until the generator warms up (about  30 seconds  or so,  higher 
bottle pressure seems to help so  I pump  it up  a bit  more than  the 
instructions call for) then the unit operates well from full  strength 
down to barely nothing.  I've not tried it at any  high altitudes  yet 
so  who  knows  what  will  happen  up  above.   I just  noted someone 
mentioning  kerosene  in another  message, the  packaging indicates  a 
kerosene generator (part # 450-5621) as  an optional  accessory but  a 
sign at Campmor in NJ said  it's not  available just  yet. I'd  say it 
sounds sort of like an old steam locomotive  off in  the distance,  it 
kind of "chugs" along softly.
---
  DeLuxe/386 1.12 #7132  
--
Executive Network Information System  (914) 667-4567
International ILink Host
From: daryl@bovill.auspex.com (Daryl Starr)
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
Subject: Re: No dogs in Natl Parks
Date: 27 Aug 92 17:43:16 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: Auspex Systems

In article <1992Aug27.155231.17337@jpl-devvax.jpl.nasa.gov>, nancy@jpl-devvax.jpl.nasa.gov (Nancy Feagans) writes:
|
|> This thread brings to mind another consideration about taking dogs into
|> the backcountry.  What would you do if you were backpacking in a remote
|> area and your dog was seriously injured?  One person I know had this happen.
|> He was out alone, with his two hunting dogs.  The dogs suffered some
|> severely cut pads from going over shale.  The guy couldn't figure out
|> how to get them out, so he shot them.  True story.
|> 
|> 

I'd sure hate to break a leg while backpacking with this guy!

Daryl
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
From: campbell@clam.med.ge.com (Scott Campbell Mfg QIE 4-6778)
Subject: re. reflector ovens
Reply-To: campbell@clam.med.ge.com (Scott Campbell Mfg QIE 4-6778)
Organization: GE Medical Systems, Milwaukee,  WI
Distribution: usa
Date: Mon, 31 Aug 92 18:10:31 GMT


Campmor has one for $24.99 folded size 13.25 x 13.5 x 3/4, 
open size is 18.75 x9.5 x 13.5 
campmors # is 800-526-4784
   

Cook on
From: tut@cairo.Eng.Sun.COM (Bill "Bill" Tuthill)
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
Subject: water purification methods
Date: 4 Sep 1992 19:09:39 GMT
Organization: Sun Microsystems Inc., Mountain View, CA
NNTP-Posting-Host: cairo

Personally I feel that the Pur filter-plus-iodine technology is the
wave of the future.  As viral infections from drinking water become
more widely recognized, people will feel that the Katadyn and MSR
don't adequately protect them against viruses, without addition of
some iodine.  Educated people already recognize that the First Need
does not protect against all bacteria without adding some iodine.
Why not have the filter do this automatically?  I've heard there is
a new stripped-down Pur selling for $48.  I predict this will be the
low-cost choice in the years ahead.

The Katadyn is a pain to use; only the First Need is worse.  

Two recent excerpts (you know who you are):
>
> The First Need is a perfectly good tool, you just have to use it
> intelligently.  

You are deluding yourself.  With a .4 micron filter, the First Need
does not get every E. coli (rod-shaped, 1-2 microns long, between
.3 and .4 microns wide) or pseudomonas such as the one that causes
Rocky Mountain fever (spherical, no cell membrane, between .3 and .4
microns in diameter).

Moreover, when the First Need clogs up, unless you are carrying a
backup system, you are up cow-pie creek without a filter.

Since you need some iodine to make water filtered with the First Need
entirely safe, why not just use a filter that is lighter and cheaper,
such as the Timberline or Basic Designs?

> The Red Cross recommends 8 drops of household bleach per gallon to
> treat suspect water before drinking.

Wrong!  Either this is very old advice, or the Red Cross hasn't been
reading the American Journal of Public Health.  For giardia, chlorine
compounds are ineffective, even if you wait overnight.  Quoting from
the AJPH article: "chlorine compounds were basically ineffective, with
no significant effect at 30 minutes; at 8 hours... bleach killed about
half the cysts."

For disinfecting of bacteria and viruses, chlorine is pH sensitive.  If
I remember correctly, in acidic water it kills bacteria but not viruses,
while in basic water it kills viruses but not bacteria.

Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
From: geraghty@emba-news.uvm.edu.UUCP (Kevin M Geraghty)
Subject: Re: Colorado reunion
Originator: geraghty@griffin
Organization: University of Vermont -- Division of EMBA Computer Facility
Date: Thu, 27 Aug 1992 13:06:34 GMT

From article <1950043@hpgrla.gr.hp.com>, by edb@hpgrla.gr.hp.com (Ed Beshore):
> I would recommend somewhere in SW Colorado, like Ouray, Silverton or Telluride.
> They have services, but are small and quaint, and in the middle of some of the
> best scenery in Colorado.  Great hiking and 4 wheeling. Your freind who
> is handicapped might really enjoy a 4 wheel trip over one of the
> many 12,000+ passes in the area.  4 wheel tours and rentals are
> readily available in Ouray and Telluride.  Lots of history too.
> 
"Quaint" about sums it up.  Ouray and Silverton are essentially
tourist processing facilities.  Lots of carefully manufactured
atmosphere. Lots of winnebagos and texans. No economic life but the
tourist trade.

It's quite true about the "4-wheeling".  There's lots of it. If you
like it, that's good; if you regard it as a plague and an example of
American techno-sickness that's bad. 

That being said, the San Juans are neat mountains, and the settings of
these little towns are quite spectacular. You can get away from the
4-wheelers if you want to.

Kevin Geraghty
From: herreid@plains.NoDak.edu (Todd J. Herreid)
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
Subject: North Dakota Badlands!
Date: 3 Sep 92 19:34:08 GMT
Article-I.D.: plains.20126
Distribution: na
Organization: North Dakota Higher Education Computing Network

The Badlands of North Dakota are a great place to experience
the type of country from the movie Dances With Wolves.  I am
interested in going on a weekend backpack trip this fall into
the Achenbach Hills Wildernes Area located in Theodore
Roosevelt National Park.  If anyone else would be interested
in a trip such as this feel free to let me know.
From: scott@hpcvccl.cv.hp.com (Scott Linn)
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
Subject: Re: Nalgene bottle lids (kiss them off!!)
Date: 26 Aug 92 00:56:13 GMT
Article-I.D.: hpcvca.1992Aug26.005613.27603
Distribution: na
Organization: Hewlett-Packard Company, Corvallis, Oregon USA

tom@afthree.as.arizona.edu (Thomas J. Trebisky) writes:
: 
: I have moved up to new technology:  lexan!!  I buy coke in a 2 liter bottle
: (or a 20 oz bottle), just make sure it has a plastic not a metal screw on
: cap.  Voila -- you get to chug down some good healthy refreshment and
: get the bottle for FREE!  They are more durable than the nalgene jobs (I
: still have a couple quart nalgenes, one with cracked lid), they do not hold
: smells and tastes like nalgene, they don't smell and taste like plastic
: like nalgene.  I have *never* had them leak.  I use the 20 oz size to fit
: in my butt-pack, and usually carry two 2-liter bottles in the outer pockets
: of my Dana (this is the desert after all).  The only disadvantage is the
: lack of a wide-mouth to shovel in solids, but this can be dealt with, or
: just carry water.

I have started using Gatorade bottles instead of coke bottles.  The Gatorade
bottles have a wide mouth (they accept most ice cubes as well as solids).
When you rip off the plastic label, they also have ridges for easier
holding.

They are much more robust than Nalgene bottles, and *much* cheaper.


Scott Linn
scott@hpcvccl.cv.hp.com
From: jjk@astro.umd.edu (Jim Klavetter)
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
Subject: predators  (was Re: No dogs in Natl Parks)
Date: 3 Sep 92 19:41:19 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: U. of Maryland @ College Park, Astronomy

In article <1992Sep3.170436.19459@morrow.stanford.edu> AS.MSW@forsythe.stanford.edu (Marc Whitney) writes:
>In article <Sep03.014456.18250@yuma.ACNS.ColoState.EDU>,
>trzyna@CS.ColoState.EDU (wayne trzyna) writes:
>>
>>I'll argue with that.  Dogs seem very happy when brought to the backcountry.
>>They love and appreciate it.  In fact, they even seem to be able to sense it
>>in advance, and get excited.
>>
>Of course they do -- they're predators!! Its like taking kids
>into a chocolate factory.  This is one of the reasons they are
>discouraged or prohibited in some areas.
>Introducing a predator in to an ecosystem it doesn't belong in is
>fairly serious action.  Even when on a leash, they can be
>disturbing.  The possibilty they might escape and become feral can
>be more than disturbing.
>
OK, time to get a grip on reality again.  Of course, feral dogs and
wolves and coyotes are predators.  And of course even domestic dogs
can possibly scare the wildlife (although it doesn't necessarily have
to be that way--see my previous two postings).  But would you want it
any other way?  Remember, we are talking WILDlife here, not a petting
zoo.  I have to laugh at those who go to the backcountry to see
wildlife and then want to carry guns to shoot the ones that might
resent them being there!  (The old Python thing:  "I like animals.
That's why I like to hunt them.")

>I've been told by a NFS ranger that the unofficial policy adopted in
>some area when a former domestic animal is sighted is shoot on sight
>for the above reason.

Within reason, this probably shouldn't get anyone upset.  If some
human came into the NFS office and said I lost my dog yesterday and it
was killed earlier that morning, I don't think that would be a good
thing.  On the other hand, if a stray from some small town happened
into the NF and nobody reported it, from the NFS it is probably easier
to kill than capture (and then give it to the pound who would end up
killing the animal anyway).

jjk@astro.umd.edu also for Athabasca and Reudi
Jim Klavetter
Astronomy
UMD
College Park, MD  20742
From: cline@equinox.unr.edu (Joe Cline)
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
Subject: Re: Exploding fuel bottles
Date: 1 Sep 92 01:47:56 GMT
Organization: Chemistry Dept., Univ. of Nevada-Reno

In article <1992Aug26.220119.15768@ncar.ucar.edu> chris@chinook.atd.ucar.edu writes:
>The bottom of my Sigg bottle, that I use with my MSR Whisperlite,
>"blew out" (i.e. like a frozen soda).  I think this was from leaving
>the bottle pressurized all the time, with constant 5000' elevation
>changes & 40 degree temperature swings.  The integrity of the bottle
>seems fine, but it will not stand up on the bottom.
>
>--Chris
	I had a full, unpressurized Sigg bottle actually fail by a
similar type of blow-out mechanism.  While the bottom did bulge out,
the fatal rupture actually occured near the top where the bottle
diameter tapers towards the mouth.  It was nothing dramatic; I just
kept smelling the odor of fuel from my backpack.  It took a while to
locate the fuel bottle as the source of the odor - the rupture was
small enough to be difficult to locate without close imspection.
	I had accidently filled the bottle to overflowing on a *cold*
desert night.  The next day it warmed up by about 50 F.  My theory is
that the liquid fuel expanded due to the large increase in
temperature.  Since there was little or no dead air space in the
bottle, something had to give (liquids are highly incompressible).
Solution?  Always leave some empty space in the top of the bottle when
you fill it (you need that space when you insert the MSR pump anyhow
of course).
	The thing I hated most about this incident was not losing the
bottle but rather having to dispose of the waste fuel, unburned, in
the desert.

				-Joe

Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
From: AS.MSW@forsythe.stanford.edu (Marc Whitney)
Subject: Re: Water Proofing advice (Helly-Hansen jacket)
Organization: Stanford University, California, USA
Distribution: usa
Date: Thu, 27 Aug 1992 20:41:47 GMT

In article <BtM8LL.3Dx@news.cso.uiuc.edu>,
cottle@cmp-rt.music.uiuc.edu (David M. Cottle) writes:
>
>I just spent a good amount of my limited student budget on a
>Helly Hansen jacket (one of the new line -- they didn't even
>have it on display) and it seems to work well enough, except
>water is seeping through the seams.
>
>Any advice?  Can I seal it with something similar to what you
>would use on a tent?  Should I just give up and get something
>better?  I've done enough mountaineering to know a half-baked
>solution is almost worse than no solution.

There is some stuff called "Seam Seal" that comes in a tube that can
be used for this.  It is also used for the seams on rainflys.  I
treat new tents and new rain gear with it and it works for me.  I'm
pretty sure there are similar products by other names.  REI carries
it, so does Campmore.  I imagine most good climbing and backpacking
shops would stock it.
From: swerhone@yogi.hsc.ucalgary.ca
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
Subject: Re: Oregon W/ Horses in Backcountry
Date: 25 Aug 92 11:56:38 MDT

    
        All this complaints about horses in the backcountry seem a little
ridiculous to me. Really horse dung doesn't smell that bad after a couple
of hours, and they stick up enough so that you can step over it.  I have gone 
backpacking and seen hikers that are much more of a threat to the backcountry 
than horses. Of course the people riding the horses have to be responsible too.
        Sorry, folks, the backcountry has to be shared between hikers, campers,
horses, mountain bikes ... If wilderness had to be preserved at all costs, they
wouldn't let YOU in there, along with all the others.


    Damini "Say NO to Development along the Bow Corridor" Swerhone.
    
    
    
    
       
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
From: jpalmier@rvgs.vak12ed.edu (Jim Palmieri)
Subject: Walk across America
Organization: Virginia's Public Education Network (Roanoke)
Date: Fri, 28 Aug 92 16:52:09 GMT

Does anyone know the name and address of the Brit that is
walking across the Unied States.  I met him during April of
this year along the trail in Roanoke VA and then saw him again
in Nebraska while I was cycling across the USA (what are tha
odds of that?).  Jim Palmieri
-- 



++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ Here at the fountain's sliding foot,
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
From: chris@engineer.mrg.uswest.com (Chris Fedde)
Subject: Re: boots
Organization: USWEST Marketing Resources
NntpPostingHost: engineer.mrg.uswest.com
Distribution: na
Date: 28 Aug 92 04:33:17 GMT

In article <1992Aug27.141409.14228@cs.brown.edu> Philip M. Hubbard,
pmh@cs.brown.edu writes:
pmh> I recently returned from backpacking in Alaska.  The trip was great, but
pmh> I was somewhat disappointed with my leather hiking boots.  Even though I
pmh> covered them thoroughly with SnoSeal, they still leaked a considerable
pmh> amount of water.
pmh> 
pmh> I am now considering buying a new pair of boots.  I have a few ideas
pmh> about what I might buy, but I would love to hear any advice from people
pmh> out there.

Before you give up totally on leather boots here's my boot story.  I
have a pair of Lowa Alpispitz boots (not lowe) that I bought in 1979.
They are full grain leather which has been saturated with SnoSeal using
heat to allow it to soak in to the leather.  I have worn them to the top
of many Colorado 14ers and through many miles of trail walking.  These
boots were stiff when I first got them but even the first day of
walking in them I have never gotten a blister.  and my
feet have never gotten wet, except when I have compleatly submerged the
boot in a creek or a piece of boggy ground.  I have replaced the soles
three times now but have never had to do any work on the uppers or
interior lining.  I attribute this to three things.  1) Good quality
mountaineering boots.  2) Two pairs of sox, cotton/polyester inner and
wool outer.  3) Baked in SnoSeal before each trip.

	good luck
	chris

 
Chris Fedde, USWEST MRG, chris@mrg.uswest.com, voice 3037842823
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
From: hens@snipe.cray.com (Tom Stephens)
Subject: Re: No dogs in Natl Parks
Organization: Cray Research, Inc.
Date: 27 Aug 92 08:24:48 CDT


In article <VAISEY.92Aug26090031@jacobi.sfu.ca>, vaisey@cs.sfu.ca (Jacques Vaisey) writes:
> >>>>> On 25 Aug 92 13:14:41 CDT, dadams@cray.com (David Adams) said:
> 
> David> The problem is not that people have dogs, or that they want to bring them
> David> to any specific place, backcountry, country, or city, but the problem
> David> occurs when dog owners have unrealistic ideas about what they sould
> David> let their dog do.
> 
> Maybe the real problem is that people are unrealistic about what they
> should let themselves do. In my opinion, people cause far more damage than
> dogs to the backcountry (myself and other newsgroup readers excepted).
> Also, lets not be hypocritical. Those really concerned about the
> preservation of wilderness should be lobbying for both people and dogs to
> be restricted to controlled areas of the parks. Wilderness and humans just
> don't mix.
> 
> 


Finally, a realistic viewpoint.   
--
---------------------------------
Tom Stephens
CCN,  Chippewa Falls
Cray Research Inc.  hens@cray.com