From: visser@convex.com (Lance Visser)
Subject: Re: Campaign Info of D/R Party in Library... (was Publicity)
Organization: CONVEX Computer Corporation, Richardson, Tx., USA
Date: Mon, 5 Oct 1992 03:08:17 GMT
X-Disclaimer: This message was written by a user at CONVEX Computer
              Corp. The opinions expressed are those of the user and
              not necessarily those of CONVEX.

In <4OCT199221191328@utarlg.uta.edu> b645zaw@utarlg.uta.edu (Stephen Tice) writes:

+>In article <visser.718222908@convex.convex.com>, visser@convex.com (Lance Visser) writes...
+>>In <01GPHGZH2Y7K001HTY@utarlg.uta.edu> B645ZAW@UTARLG.UTA.EDU (STEPHEN TICE) writes:
+>> 
+>>>{ ref: talk.politics.misc, Re: Perot's publicity, 1 Oct }
+>> 
+>>+>visser@convex.com (Lance Visser)...
+>>+>|
+>>+> 
+>>+>|	Most thinking people might just try to contact the political
+>>+>|party or the campaign in search of such materials.  
+>> 
+>>+>No Lance. "Thinking people" will examine the record before the promises.
+>> 
+>>	So whats your point here?  

	[Omitted here was the arguement that what I was attempting to do
	was to tell one of the Perot-bots that clintonbush material exists
	to the same extent and avaiability as Ross Perot's magic plan.


+>That you got the cart before the horse, that's all. Hate to see 
+>campaign literature offered as substance.

+>>...I don't read or believe anything blindly myself.

+>Ok, we agree.

	Funny though how you only jump in after the clintonbush nonsense
and not on Ross Perot's "save america" book which was being blindly beilived
in by the original poster.


+>>+>And the Democrat/Republican record is clear: $4 trillion dollars of
+>>+>debt, and a $1.5 trillion dollar budget being enacted now. (SuperCollider
+>>+>funding passed into law today at $1/2 billion for this fiscal year -- 
+>>+>more new spending heaped on top of debt.)
+>> 
+>>	So the solution is to adopt Ross Perot's "central planning" 
+>>(the code word is industrial policy) for the parts of the economy that
+>>the government does not yet dominate.

+>You've again focussed on Perot rather than the people Perot represents.

	If you believe him, then all the little Perots which made up
"united we stand" signed on the ideas expressed in the book.  One
of which is industrial policy on a large scale.

	Now the typical people I know of that want industrial policy
are very large companies and politicians because they sense the power
it will give them over people.  I dont hear too many common american 
people exposing "industrial policy" as a solution.



+>One man can do nothing. The same is true of the Dems & Reps. The 
+>solution is to bring another part of the populace into the process
+>who have recently experienced the nonsense that the "Centralists"
+>heap on us -- and oust the corrupted "political class". (Meant in
+>the sense that power corrupts, and based on the Defense Spending
+>Scam, HUD SCAM, S&L Scam, hidden wars, and an avalanche of debt.)

	Then how about having Mr. Perot step aside as the movements
candidate and presenting someone else, a real person rather than
a rich reagan-era connected man like Perot.

	If he were to step aside in all but a finanical role in terms
of the movement and the movement were really democratic in organization,
then I could find it accepable.  I can't now and I see the movement as
little more than a vehicle for Perot.


+>>+>The common political stance of the gop & dems is how to squeeze money 
+>>+>out of the rest of US, our kids, their kids, and the rest of the 
+>>+>world. The record is clear -- greed and oppression -- and easily found
+>>+>in any library. 
+>> 
+>>	I suggest you go to the library and look of the Record of one
+>>Ross Perot who has dervied no small part of his wealth from government
+>>spending, who has made a career out of self-promotion.  If you wish
+>>to talk about greed and oppression, I suggest you talk to former EDS
+>>employees.

+>I've got photocopies of microfiche articles from as far back as
+>20 years ago taken from the library, and I've followed the lies
+>in media with amazement, as they bounce from paper to magazine
+>to political pundit. (A lazy lot -- by in large). The more I
+>study Perot, the more I respect him, and the more blatant the
+>media lies become. Which you seem to have sucked up hook, line
+>and stinker.

	Go and find out how many ex-cops/FBI and assorted others
he has working for him.  Then ask yourself why?  Go talk to some
of the many people who have had less than plesant experences with
the EDS monster.

	You seem to have taken up the image and the self=promotion that
Perot has been doing for years and made them your own personal truth.


+>More to the point, the excesses of the D/R parties are very well 
+>documented. As if anyone needed to look any farther than the
+>$1.5 Trillion dollar federal budget being passed now by BOTH parties.




+>Where's the media -- while the taxpayer is getting screwed again?
+>Stirring up unverifiable gossip to distract from the matter??

	Ross perot's re-announcment press conference contained no
substanse.  He talked at length about postcards from small children
and medals sent to him by veterns.

	In fact, I dont remember Ross Perot very often discussing real
issues or his plan with anyone in any forum.  Now that the book is published
the tag line from the sheapard and the sheep both is "read the book".


+>I figure, if they were covering the new scam-budget their sales 
+>would go through the roof. But the answer's obvious though as more 
+>and more of the papers and media sources actually side with either
+>D or R candidate, ie. Pork-Party-Propagandist.

	The media is either stupid or just not very relivant.  There
are next to no news publications in the country with are concerned with
real news (i.e. time, newsweek and USNews are for children).
	Most local newspapers are just wrappers for a couple of wire 
services.  Its a conspiracy of stupidity more than an active means toward
anything.


+>So, Lance will you attempt to defend the new Mega-Budget/Deficit,
+>or the Pork-Party-Politicians that are cooking it up?

	I dont know as if it was ever my intention to.  Are you going
to explain why "united we stand's" call for Industrial policy 
(i.e. central planning) is an accurate refelctions of what the
non-demorepubs think?