From: muehlhau@en.ecn.purdue.edu (John Muehlhausen)
Subject: Re: THE MIND OF THE BIBLE BELIEVER
Keywords: Bible--psychlogy--fundamentalism
Organization: Purdue University Engineering Computer Network
Distribution: world,public
Date: Sun, 27 Dec 92 07:24:04 GMT

In article <1992Dec26.211614.15278@nmsu.edu> sdoe@nmsu.edu (Stephen Doe) writes:
>In article <1992Dec26.032102.6648@en.ecn.purdue.edu> muehlhau@en.ecn.purdue.edu (John Muehlhausen) writes:
>>
>>What strikes me more than anything is that you have not presented any
>>problems associated with Biblical faith.  Rather, the ones you have
>>presented are a result of faith which is lacking, and the problems
>>would not go away were this faith to be dropped (if it could be).
>>
>>For example, hatred of homosexuals is not a Biblical theme.
>>Hatred of homosex certainly is, which is not the same thing.  Don't
>>go off on some psychological tangent on me here-- THEY ARE NOT THE
>>SAME THING, IMPLIED OR OTHERWISE.  How do I know?  Because I love
>>homosexuals and hate what some of them do.  If I can do it, it can be 
>>done.  Jesus certainly had this attitude.
>
>"Jacob I loved, but Esau I hated."  I believe that quote is from
>Romans, though I don't have my Bible handy at the moment.  Seems to
>imply God can hate the sinner as well as the sin. . . 

I don't think there is any such verse in the New Testament.

>I do not see much in the way towards hatred of homosexuals in liberal
>or mainline denominations.  It seems to be a conservative phenomenon,
>part of those churches that most stress the primacy of the Bible.
>
>I'm not going to accuse every Christian of hating certain groups of
>people--it just seems to be something that the Bible promotes.

Be carefule to keep what the Bible teaches separate from any given group of
Christians.  We are, after all, looking at the MBB!

I am going to post every occurence of "love" and "hate" in the NIV Bible.
Please read them!

>>Exactly what does the Bible tell us that is harmful to society if
>>integrated and accepted?  If there is any harm to be had, it is in
>>the clash between acceptance and non-acceptance.  From everything I
>>have seen, the Bible believer is generally a happier, more joyful,
>>more hopeful, and more successful individual in life than the person
>>who rejects Biblical advice and command.  Where is the depression?
>>I do not see it in my life or the lives of my fellow BB's.  If our
>>"fake" joy is as much, it is more real than any offered by any other
>>source, which makes me seriously question the motivation behind these
>>postings.  If the whole world had Bible Believing minds, what would
>>things be like?  If their are Christians out there who live in fear
>>and depression, then maybe you had better try the Bible Brand of
>>Christianity! :-)
>
>My own phase of Bible-belief featured just the sort of fear and
>depression Dr. Cohen spoke of, which is why I was receptive to what he
>had to say.  The motivation behind these postings was to present Dr.
>Cohen's views, partly to help those others such as myself, who might
>be suffering from that fear and depression, and partly to see what
>others had to say about the views of Dr. Cohen.

Could you expound on your experience?  I would like to help if I can!

>Obviously there will be a lot of difference in how people react to
>Bible-belief--I think his analysis is much more a matter of the
>"inner-directed" believer's reaction, than of the "other-directed,"
>for whom the church atmospherics is what mainly counts.

So your experience was due only to the relationship between you and God?
What did this relationship look like?

>But God can take on a terrifying face for those who know the Bible too
>well.  I think it's up to you guys to show how God's love still shines
>through, given many incidents in the Bible that certainly cause me to
>question how "loving" he really is. . .

Judge for yourself, based on the following posts!

>I think that if the whole world had Bible-believing minds, we'd see
>some schisms so that they could have somebody to be against. . .
>One result of Dr. Cohen's analysis is the expectation that the
>biblically authentic believer will need some outgroup to project his
>shadow upon.

Why would any sane person want adversaries?  I have lived with large groups
of BB's for long periods of time, approximating total submersion in
Christianity.  I came away with the best memories of my life and the closest
to a utopian experience I have ever had!  True BB's don't want somebody to
pick on!

>>_Is_ having the Mind of the Bible Believer damaging to the individual
>>or society?  I have yet to see it.
>
>>I am not qualified to comment on the psychological analysis
>>presented, but even if it were right on, it is meaningless
>>unless it can be shown that there is some other attainable state of
>>mind that is superior from an end product view.
>
>If the Bible really does promote inner divideness, as Dr. Cohen
>maintains, then the reconciliation of psychological opposites, which
>biblically-authentic belief obstructs, would be the healthier state of
>mind.  

Why?  Also, who cares?  What must a BB _do_ in order to live a happier life?
I would still like some examples of how following Biblical command will mess
up an individual or society.
(Regardless of how that translates into psychological terms)

>But I'm not qualified to comment on his psychology either, which is
>another reason why I posted this series, to see what someone qualified
>in this area might have to say.
>
>SD

In what area?  Psychology?  I am sure Dr. Cohen is a very good psychologist.
But does he really have any answers?  Is he also an expert in joyful living?
Is anyone but God really an expert in anything?

John M.
Newsgroups: alt.atheism