From: danaf@bray1a.its.rpi.edu (Frank R. Dana Jr.)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
Subject: Re: COMMODORE - HERE'S A CLUE
Date: 4 Oct 92 03:28:26 GMT
Reply-To: danaf@rpi.edu
Organization: Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute, Troy, NY.

In article <1992Oct1.003827.22001@ra.msstate.edu>, skip@tacky.cs.olemiss.edu (Skip Sauls) writes:
|> In article <gjlzq-m@rpi.edu> danaf@rpi.edu writes:
|> >In article <1992Sep29.021719.21084@ra.msstate.edu>, skip@tacky.cs.olemiss.edu (Skip Sauls) writes:
|> >>Anyone know how much it would really cost to design, develop, produce, and
|> >>market the 020 or 030 base A600 that people seem to want?  I'm curious.
|> >
|> >Me too... I still wanna find out the real price of the chip! (I'm now 
|> >sticking my estimate for the '020 at $75 bulk, much more realistic...)
|> 
|> Around '88 or '89, I bought an 020 and 881 for ~$40 each from the Freddy
|> Kruger Company (or something like that).  The chips worked great in a
|> CSA Midget Racer system running at 7.16MHz and even worked at 14.32MHz
|> when the MR was piggybacked atop a CMI Processor Accelerator.  I believe
|> that the chips may have been some sort of reject, but the only defect that
|> I found was that the top was scratched and very dull.  I haven't priced 
|> the chips lately, but $75 seems a bit high.

__VERY__ cool. If YOU can get them that cheap, SINGLY, Commodore could probably
work a deal for about $30 with some dealer. So, that's only DOUBLE the price of
the 68000 chip! Now, wouldn't a $500 A500 with a 68020 running at, say, 16mHz?
How about 25mHz???    <drool>

|> >> The A3000 at $1499 is a great deal, even when compared to the hordes of
|> >> clones.  I used to wish that C= would can the A2000 and replace it with
|> >> an A3000 with no hard drive, one of the cut-down 030s, no 881/882, and
|> >
|> >AAAAUUUGHHHHH!!!!!!!! NOOOOOOOOO! We just got through this one! PLEEEZE don't
|> >listen to him! He's sick inna' head.
|> >
|> >(Can you *IMAGINE* a mid/high-end computer with a 68030 and no HARD DRIVE??
|> >
|> >AUGH.
|> 
|> Let me explain this a bit.  I'd like to see the machine unbundled so that
|> dealers can add larger hard drives and offer better deals.  Most clones 
|> come with a hard drive, but the customer has a much wider range of sizes,
|> brands, etc. to choose from.  I'm not advocating the removal of the hard
|> drive so that people would use one with a floppy only, rather I believe
|> that it would make the machine more desirable for folks who don't want
|> the small 50 and 100M drives that C= uses.

Well, that's better1 (You had me worried there....) The great thing about the
PC world is you can find your computer bundled with just about any hard drive
you want, just do a little comparison shopping.

However, I still feel that Commodore has to take the first step. The A500/A600
would still be sold hard-drive-less unless Commodore did two things:

1> Forget about a floppy version of all new WB releases, and just come right 
out and say "no, it doesn't run off floppies". I *BELIEVE* (don't quote me...)
that Microsoft/IBM started doing this with DOS 4.01.... that was a loooong time
ago.

2> Assure all developers that the Amiga is now a hard-drive-standard computer,
and they will not have to worry about making their programs RUN off of floppies.
Origin might even think again about Amiga Wing Commander II.... 

SOME companies have already taken this initiative (the ImageMaster executable
is LARGER than 837K!!!!) but not many. It will take a move from Commodore to
kill the floppy disk... may it Rot In Peace.

|> >(I could live with the no-math-chip deal... as long as they left a socket...)
|> >
|> >I've been pushing for Commodore to forget all along that you can BUY an Amiga
|> >without a hard drive. I think WB and a lot of the other Commodore software 
|> >would be a lot nicer if they'd just state outright "no, it doesn't run off 
|> >floppies" and then stop worrying about it...
|> 
|> I agree.  I took the plunge and bought a hard drive for my A1000 way back
|> in '88.  At the time, the $700 for a 33M SCSI drive and interface seemed
|> like an awesome deal.  :-)

You got off cheap! (me) ---> $830 (plus tax...) for a 40meg Quantum and GVP 
controller. Since then, I've also plopped $100 for ROM upgrades to the friggin'
thing...

|> I must have had one of the most orphaned computers ever made.  I had an
|> A1000, CLtd SCSI controller, Alegra 512k memory board, and a CMI Processor
|> Accelerator.  All of the companies except C= are dead, but all of the
|> products still work fine (although they aren't used so much anymore).
|> 
|> Am I bitter?  Hell no!  I long ago accepted the fact that nothing lasts 
|> forever, especially computers.  These things are just tools designed to 
|> make life a bit easier and possibly more fun.  

Yep. There are two things you have to learn to live with in the computer world:

1> If you buy something, the price WILL go down very, very soon. Tough. You
could have waited.... and waited... and waited. There are always price drops,
and there are always new models. If you wait for the *new* model, in 2 years
(if you're lucky...) that one's out of date anyway. Some companies are really
nice and will give you an upgrade plan, and some of them might even manage to
kludge some of the new features into your old model, but this should not be
expected....

2> Your computer will not be top-of-the-line forever. You cannot keep sticking
new technology into old casings, no matter how expandable you plan it. Could
the telegraph engineers of the 19th century have "predicted" telephone and 
put in lines that would be compatible??? Come on! Innovation will always break
something...

|> >/////////////////////////[[[[[[[[[[]]]]]]]]]]\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\
|> >(718)             (212)                        (516)             (518)
|> >=======Amiuser============Frank R. Dana, Jr.============Doc Ami=======     
|> >--------My opinions rarely reflect those of any sane person,----------
|> >	   living, dead, or undead... that's gonna CHANGE.
|> 
|> 
|> Skip Sauls
|> skip@tacky.cs.olemiss.edu

-- 
/////////////////////////[[[[[[[[[[]]]]]]]]]]\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\
(718)             (212)                        (516)             (518)
=======Amiuser============Frank R. Dana, Jr.============Doc Ami=======     
--------My opinions rarely reflect those of any sane person,----------
	   living, dead, or undead... that's gonna CHANGE.
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy