HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: george@cs.purdue.edu (Michael J. George)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: Duplicating factory rounds. was .357 Home Protection Gun Recommendation
Date: 9 Apr 92 23:30:44 GMT
Organization: Department of Computer Science, Purdue University


In article <52828@mimsy.umd.edu>, ucla-cs!netcon.smc.edu!agood@CS.UCLA.EDU (Aaron Good) writes:
#
# I agree that using handloads is an extremely poor idea for defense, ONLY
# because the civil liability trial will make you out to be a "gun crazed,
# Rambo style vigilante who gunned down my client as if he were a rat."
# Using handloads- hot or not - will in most probability increase the amount
# of the award to the plaintiff agianst you. Go ahead and use the handloads for
# plinking, varmint hunting, and everything else, but put some factory ammo in 
# the gun when you put away the gun. 

Someone posted and said that you can ballistically tell the difference between
a factory load and a handload.  I'm curious as to how...

Also, wouldn't it be possible for them to make you look like a "gun freak" sim-
ply by the fact that you *do* reload?  Even if you didn't use them against the
"poor, helpless, innocent victim" *sarcasm added*?
-- 
Michael George
george@cs.purdue.edu

[MODERATOR:  *ahem* Let's not lead ourselves into a flame feast....]
From: gmk@falstaff.MAE.CWRU.EDU (Geoff Kotzar)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: Advice on Polar Bear protection requested (no kidding!!!)
Date: 7 Apr 92 18:13:10 GMT
Organization: Case Western Reserve University

In article <52651@mimsy.umd.edu> nsc!jrr@decwrl.dec.com (Jerry Roe) writes:
#In article <52549@mimsy.umd.edu> rboudrie@chpc.org (Rob Boudrie) writes:
##
#...question about protection from polar bears...

a bunch deleted

#
##   (c) What calibers and gusn are recommended?
#
#I'd want to have something like a .375 H&H or .416 Rigby.  Really.
#Preferably the .416.  The polar bear is about the most dangerous predator
#you can come up against, and they don't go down easily.
#
#Jerry Roe

I don't know how true this latter is. There have been reports of polar bears
going down very easily from inconsequential wounds. A fellow his one low in
the fore limb and the bugger rolled up into a ball, until it discovered that
it wasn't really hurt. Then it booked, which made the follow-up shot more
difficult. It seems they don't get pushed around much where they live and
are not used to the shock/pain or so the theory goes.

There is a really good book called "The Year Long Day", the name of the author
escapes me now, about his exploits living alone on one of the fiords in one of
the Scandinavian countries. He had permits from the gov't to harvest various
types of critters which included 10 polar bears per year. He did this for three
years I believe until the gov't closed the area down. He did all of his hunting
using an "8mm". No other designation, but even the biggest European 8mm is not
much more powerful than our .338. He had some fantastic tales but none arising
from any inadequacies of his rifle. If you wanted to learn a little about
hunting polar bears this book would be useful and if you just wanted an
entertaining hunting story this would be excellent.

geoff kotzar
From: glock@glock.chip.cba.ufl.edu (Joe Granto (BACL))
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: polar bear...
Date: 7 Apr 92 13:06:18 GMT
Organization: College of Business, University of Florida

The .454 Casull is a good round, but...


I think the Desert Eagle .50 would be the way to go.  It is nice and heavy, 
which means the kick shouldn't be that bad.  It is also semi-auto, wich is 
just too much.  The bullets it shoots are about the same weight and velocity 
shot out of a musket...
From: ba08034@bingsune.cc.binghamton.edu (Wolf)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Glock 22/23 Impressions please
Date: 17 Apr 92 12:44:44 GMT
Organization: State University of New York at Binghamton

I was at a local gun dealer today (Ithaca NY) looking for autos 
chambered for the .40 S&W, and have almost decided on the Glock 23.

I would like to here from someone who owns a 23 or a 22 and/or carries
it concealed etc.  Specifically how it has held up, whether you like
the 22 over the 23 or vice versa, and how easily you find it to conceal
as well as how you have chosen to conceal it.  Any relevant comments 
will be appreciated.  I am especially interested in concealment 
comments.  I am leaning toward the 22 due to its slightly better fit
in my large hand, the extra 2 rounds it carries, and the ~.4 inch
longer barrel.  Considering it is only about .5 inches longer and
.5 inches taller, I cannot see how one would be *much* more concealable
than the other.

Also, has anyone seen the Taurus PT100/101 .40 and did you like it?
My choice is narrowed down to the Taurus and the Glock and I am leaning
toward the Glock (wish it were a little less expensive).

Thanks in advance.

--Curt
  (Reading "In the Gravest Extreme" practically as I type)
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
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From: bourman@hpcc01.corp.hp.com (Bob Bourman)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: 9mm Clip prices?
Date: 6 Apr 92 12:57:41 GMT
Organization: the HP Corporate notes server




	Information on 9mm clips:


	I have noticed a great difference in 9mm clips. The original
	brand ie; Taurus & S&W run from $18 to $24 each. Some advertized
	specials in Shot Gun News sells (not brand name)for ~$12 with
	pouch.

	What's up ? Are these non-brand clips as good? Has anyone had
	experience with off the wall clips?

	Tom Forrest Inc. in Lakeside, Ca. sells the Taurus 9mm 16 round
	clips (2) with pouch for $24.95 and the S&W M39 8 round clips (2)
	with pouch for $23.95.

	Thanks 

	BOBB
From: bbx!bbx.basis.com!russ@unmvax.cs.unm.edu (Russ Kepler)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: .357 Home Protection Gun Recommendations Sought
Date: 8 Apr 92 20:27:40 GMT
Organization: BASIS International, Albuquerque NM


In article <52661@mimsy.umd.edu> forda@gtephx.UUCP (Andrew Ford @ AGCS, Phoenix, Arizona) writes:
#How so?  In actual fact, the hand loads I use are not as hot as factory
#loads, so how could I be called a monster because I like paying half as
#much for ammunition?  ('Course, we do live in different areas, but I fail
#to see how a handload automatically makes you a murdering monster - even
#if it is hot.  .357 magnum is deadly, period.)

Those of us living in the Southwest (including some of Texas, Colorado
and Utah and all of Arizona and New Mexico) really can't understand
the attitude of others in regards to self defense shootings.  Our
opinions regarding guns and self defense shootings are more like those
expressed by Andrew than by posters in Mass and other "east coast"
cities.  Around NM it's likely that you'd get an award from the FOP
(Fraternal Order of Police) for shooting an intruder; other states may
well take you to trial.

It would do all of us well, then, to recall the national and
international nature of Usenet, and post and respond to posts
accordingly.  This is particularly true of international friends that
speak English in addition to their native tongue, possibly adding
additional translations difficulties to the other cultural ones.

I'd still like to know why the Finnish culture strikes me as being
similar to USA culture - for a relatively small population they either
have great usenet connectivity or a lot of shooters.

-- 
Russ Kepler, Basis International Ltd. russ@bbx.basis.com  phone: 505-345-5232
From: wwarf@copper.ucs.indiana.edu (wayne john warf)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: capstun shelf-life
Date: 11 Apr 92 23:43:57 GMT
Organization: Indiana University

In article <52961@mimsy.umd.edu> jvh@nature.berkeley.edu writes:
#
#Does anyone know the life of a capstun spray?  I know that the
#various mace sprays are no good after a couple years (sometimes
#sooner), but does this hold also for the capstun spray?  I see
#no expiration date on the capstun dog spray available in CA,
#(for dogs only).
#
#Joan V
#



Capstun is supposed to have an indefinite shelf life if you shake it every few months to avoid sedimentation.
-- 
 *  WWARF@ucs.indiana.edu**I speak for me,OK?**sic semper tyrannis    *
 *   NRA LIFE* *NRA Certified Instructor* *Penna. R&PA* *Ind. SR&PA   *
 * Department of Decision & Information Systems, Indiana University   *
 * Bloomington, IN 47405 USA* *Pennsylvania CCW Lic.*Indiana CCW Lic. *
From: charlesg@cco.caltech.edu (Charles Grosjean)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: Recrowning...........
Date: 17 Apr 92 01:50:57 GMT
Organization: California Institute of Technology, Pasadena

megatek!hollen@uunet.UU.NET (Dion Hollenbeck) writes:

##>>>> On 15 Apr 92 14:04:13 GMT, aeporro@ariel.lerc.nasa.gov (Bob Porro) said:

#Bob> How do you chuck the barrel into the lathe if it is still attaced
#Bob> to a receiver?  

#Bob> Is there another approach where a lathe isn't used for cases when
#Bob> it is not practical to remove the barrel from the receiver, i.e.,
#Bob> is there a specialized crowning tool that self-centers itself in
#Bob> the bore of the barrel?

#Not that I know of, but I have not learned everything there is to know
#about gunsmithing (far from it).  There may also be other ways I do
#not know about.  These are only the ones with I am familiar.

Brownell's sells a 79 degree crowning tool that has interchangable pilots so
that you can simply buy the correct pilot, fit it to the cutter and then
crown the barrel by hand.  I have no experience with this method, I just saw
it while leafing through the catalog.

Charles
From: baechler@lia.di.epfl.ch (Emmanuel Baechler)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: Tokarev, Makarov. Any good?
Date: 16 Apr 92 17:55:30 GMT


In article <53248@mimsy.umd.edu> erudnick@pica.army.mil (FSAC-SID) writes:

#The Makarov is in another class. In its original 9mm Makarov chambering
#the ammo is ball only and sometimes hard to find. The Chinese Makarovs
#as well as a few other guns originally chambered for the 9mmM cartridge
#are also available in .380 ACP, which is a step down from 9mmP.

The 9mm Makarov is identical to the occidental 9mm "Police". This is
an intermediate cartridge between the 9mm short and the 9mm Parabellum.
It had been introduced by Walther and SIG (if memory serves me), and
was available for the the SIG P-230 and the Walther PP (although I am
not sure for the Walther). This caliber has never been successful and
I don't know wether it is still commercialized. It is however very likely
that, if it is still sold, you will have to look for german ammunition
like the Geco.

Emmanuel Baechler.                        | Tel.: ++41-21-693-2732
Laboratoire d'Intelligence Artificielle   | e-mail: baechler@liasun6.epfl.ch
Ecole Polytechnique Federale de Lausanne  | Standard Disclaimer
MA-Ecublens
CH-1015 Lausanne	Switzerland

Ban the bomb. Save the world for conventional warfare.
From: gwyn@smoke.brl.mil (Doug Gwyn)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: Scoring Targets
Date: 9 Apr 92 14:04:37 GMT
Organization: U.S. Army Ballistic Research Laboratory, APG, MD.


In article <52677@mimsy.umd.edu> jheath@fieldofdreams.npirs.purdue.edu (Jim Heath) writes:
#Just for curiousity, is there some reason why groups with larger
#numbers of shots in them are usually bigger?

Yeah, it's just what one expects from statistical sampling.
One way to see that is to look at a target with lots of holes in it,
then randomly select a small number of them (say, just two holes)
and see that the subset is very likely a "tighter" group than the
parent hole population from which the subset sample was drawn.
From: rsopicki@pro-amber.cts.com (System Administrator)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: 9mm vs 40S&W - which to choose?
Date: 13 Apr 92 17:34:10 GMT
Organization: ProLine [pro-amber]

Isn't a .40S&W round closer to the specs of a 10mm?
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
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Internet: rsopicki@pro-amber.cts.com |                of
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CIS:      75146.430@compuserve.com   |           619-460-9762
From: C08926RC@WUVMD.Wustl.Edu (Rob)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: RE: bullet & gasoline truck
Date: 11 Apr 92 23:44:00 GMT

In the film 'Deadly Weapons,' they demonstrate the myth of exploding
gas tanks.  They shoot into a partially filled gas tank with both
FMJ ammo and tracers, in .223 and .308.  None of them would cause
the tank to explode.

I imagine that, if the bullet could penetrate, the effects on the
large gas tank would be the same...

Hmmm, for some reason, this is reminding me of the scene in 'Sharky's
Machine' where the bad guy fires one shot at a police car, causing
the engine to explode and the hood to fly off...8-)

Rob
From: grout!scott@uunet.UU.NET (Scott Caldwell)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: Finnish Rifle Review
Date: 7 Apr 92 13:06:30 GMT
Organization: Grout, Beltsville, MD

In article <52479@mimsy.umd.edu> Panu.Kolju@lut.fi (Panu Kolju) writes:
#smpod@venus.lerc.nasa.gov (Stefan) writes:
#
##ataylor@NMSU.Edu writes...
###I took the recently-acquired Finnish-made Moisin-Nagant in 7.62x54 
###Russian out for a spin. (I don't have Smith here, so I hope I'm
###spelling the designers names correctly.)
### 
###This rifle cost $90 at the Albuquerque gun show and was in
###"fair" shape; the bluing was mostly gone, the stock showed
###dings (more about that later), the bore was dark but with
###strong rifling and all the parts were present and working.

It seems the folks responding to this post were fairly knowleadgeable, so I
thought I'd see if I can get some info on a Nagant I purchased this weekend.

First, what I know/suspect.
  It is a model 91(without upper handguard but with the
  stock cut for the sling  ? confusion ?)
  It is marked on the reciever Remington Armory 1916
  and is stamped with the imperial russian crest
  (This leads me to believe the rifle never made it to russia)
  It has 95% blue, Clear crisp lands, and all matching #'s
  The front barrel band and cleaning rod were missingng..
A
 ( I realize this could explain the above confusion, but it 
  really looks like the rilfe was ment to be this way.)
I am interested in finding out what anyone might know about 
this rifle and if any of my assumptions are incorrect.  

thanks in advance

BTW I paid $60 for the thing and thought I did pretty good.

Scott
From: cash@convex.com (Peter Cash)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: Revolver Hammer Shrouds...
Date: 9 Apr 92 14:04:41 GMT
Organization: The Instrumentality

In article <52818@mimsy.umd.edu> fist@iscp.Bellcore.COM (Richard Pierson) writes:
#The carrying of a revolver with an empty chamber under the
#hammer was for one reason only..If the weapon were dropped
#and it hit either barrel or hammer first the weapon would
#discharge, you have to remember that the person who carried
...
#it went off). On the newer colts and rugers there is a 
#hammer block that has to be inserted between the hammer 
#and the firing pin (if the firing pin is on the hammer 
#there is no hammer block) this is done when you pull the 
#trigger. I havent even looked at a smith since
#73, and have no plans to, all I know are colt and ruger.

Smith & Wesson revolvers also have a safety arrangement--a metal arm that
interposes itself between the hammer and frame at all times, except when
the trigger is held back. This arm prevents the hammer from moving forward,
so the firing pin "nose" can't contact the primer unless the trigger is
deliberately pulled. The hammer will not move if the gun is dropped, or if
the hammer is struck. If you pull the hammer back on a Smith, and release
it without touching the trigger (before it engages the single action
notch), the hammer likewise will not strike the cartridge. (My lawyer
advises me to tell yoiu not to try this with a loaded revolver.)

In a modern revolver, the likelyhood of an accidental discharge of the
cartridge under the hammer is equal to the likelyhood of an accidental
discharge of any of the other five cartridges. 
-- 
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
             |      Die Welt ist alles, was Zerfall ist.     |
Peter Cash   |       (apologies to Ludwig Wittgenstein)      |cash@convex.com
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
From: bobd@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (Bob DeBula)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: Browning BDM
Date: 14 Apr 92 14:31:35 GMT
Organization: The Ohio State University

In article <53130@mimsy.umd.edu> chan@seattleu.edu (Anthony K.B. Chan) writes:
#Is the Browning BDM as good as Browning's own Hi-power mark III ?
#

The Browning BDM is an unproven (as yet) pistol, while the High Power
Mark III is the furthest refinement to date of the P35 High Power.
If you need/want to buy *now* I would unquestionably go with the
HP Mk III. If you want to allow some time for reports, articles, tests,
etc. on the BDM it may be a viable selection ('til they've been out
in the field under a variety of conditions it will be very hard to tell
how good/durable/reliable they are). I have yet to see a BDM though they
were announced (and are catalogued) about a year back. Supposedly,
the BDM will be produced in the US while the present NATO Mk III
will still be made (parts-wise) at FN in Belgium and assembled in
Portugal. The BDM does introduce some novel concepts and may well
ultimately turn out to be one nifty pistol.

Of course, the usual plethora of Glock worshipers and the SIG/SAUER 
cult (note that I am excluding the exceedingly expensive SIG Neuhausen 
P-210 here which all right-thinking pistol folks properly worship as 
THE ultimate pistol :-) will doubtless add their comments on what 
constitutes the "best pistol available".  Take heart though, we
High Power/Browning fanatics know the *real* one true way :-)
(again excepting the SIG Neuhausen P-210).     
-- 
==========================================================================
              Disclaimer: These are my views, not the U's
From: jheath@fieldofdreams.npirs.purdue.edu (Jim Heath)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Reloading dies - .40 S&W/10mm
Date: 14 Apr 92 20:17:11 GMT
Article-I.D.: mimsy.53218
Organization: Center for Environmental and Regulatory Information Systems, Purdue University

#From article <53133@mimsy.umd.edu>, by rsopicki@pro-amber.cts.com (System Administrator):
# Isn't a .40S&W round closer to the specs of a 10mm?
#

Speaking of .40 S&W and 10mm, which set of dies should I buy in
order to be able to load both of them?  My dealer says the .40
S&W dies will load both while the 10mm dies won't.
-- 
"Land of song, said the warrior bard,           Jim Heath
Though all the world betrays thee.
One sword, at least, thy rights shall guard, (The Minstrel Boy)
One faithful harp will praise thee."         (Thomas More)
From: claris!drc@decwrl.dec.com (Dennis Cohen)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: Smoking those little orange disks
Date: 16 Apr 92 22:29:15 GMT
Organization: Claris Corporation, Santa Clara CA


earlw@Apple.COM (Earl Wallace) writes:

#For the second time in my life, I went out and fired some shotgun shells at
#the trap range.  I have perhaps a total of 1 hour experience and yet I seem 
#to be smoking these disks at a much higher rate than I would have expected
#(over 70%).  Is this considered normal?  What percentage of the clays should
#be hit to be considered good?
Over 70% is good for a new shooter.  Scores in the mid-to-high 80s are
fairly normal for regular, experienced shooters.  To be considered a "good"
(A or AA shooter) you will need an average in the low-to-mid 90s and will
need to shoot some 99s and 100s to win events in those classes.

#It's more fun to shoot these things out of the air than bore holes in a paper
#target...
You've got that right!  Sporting Clays looks like it might be even more
fun, but they don't allow reloads to be used according to the rules that
I read and that would make it a VERY expensive proposition.

-- 
Dennis Cohen
Claris Corp.
 ****************************************************
Disclaimer:  Any opinions expressed above are _MINE_!
From: bcsaic!ssc-vax!sml@cs.washington.edu (Stuart Lewis)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: Advice on Polar Bear protection requested (no kidding!!!)
Date: 11 Apr 92 23:44:01 GMT
Organization: Boeing Aerospace & Electronics


In article <52549@mimsy.umd.edu> rboudrie@chpc.org (Rob Boudrie) writes:
#
#An engineer I shoot with has volunteered for artic assignment.....he
#would appreciate answers to the following questions from anyone who
#would know :
#
#   (a) Is *ANY* handgun cartridge useful against polar bears?  (He's
#       thinking of a .454 Casull)
#   (b) Are semi auto rifles appropriate, or does the cold weather 
#       interfere with reliability?
#   (c) What calibers and guns are recommended?

One of my closest friends, after getting out of the Army with a
background in surveying, worked for 3 summers with the U.S.G.S doing
costal surveys in Alaska.  Whenever a crew had to put ashore to set
up equipment, it was mandatory that they be armed against Kodiak's.
The weapon they carried was a 12 gauge pump loaded with slugs.  In
his opinion, anything less would only piss the bear off!  I tend to
agree with that.  They never had to use it, but they did fire it a
couple times in an effort to scare one off - no effect.  Fortunately,
the Zodiac from their mother ship picked them up while the Kodiak
was about 100 yards away.  Anyway, I'd forget the Casull and go with
the shotgun.

On a side note, this friend told me how one time they set up some
equipment on what they later learned was a bear path.  The next day,
they came back to check it because it wasn't operating properly.
They found it all tipped over and nudged off the trail.  They set it
up again.  Next day, it's knocked over and scattered about the area,
into the brush, bushes, etc.  They try one last time, and set it up
the third time.  Next day..... not only was it knocked over, it had
all been *thoroughly* trashed, stomped, chewed on, crushed, and dis-
membered into lots of little pieces!  They finally gave up.
Interesting to note the escalation in reaction on the part of the
bear.

Stuart Lewis
sml@ssc-vax.boeing.com
From: hays@ssd.intel.com (Kirk Hays)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Caveat Emptor
Date: 8 Apr 92 20:29:10 GMT
Organization: Intel Supercomputer Systems Division

One thing I've seen on this newgroup that everyone should at least
keep in mind:

Not everyone who professes an opinion is an expert.

For instance, I've seen several cases of persons who have just
acquired their first firearm offering opinions on life-or-death
subjects (like what is the "best" combat handgun caliber), and then
asking a question that gives away their novice status the next day.

Let the reader beware - question authority.

[For the "poseurs" who are posting - how are you going to feel if
someone gets killed because of your advice?]

[Me?  I've been shooting/reloading/home gunsmithing for nearly 30
years, and I certainly don't know one hell of a lot.  I know what I
like, what I dislike, and what I've seen - if I post anything beyond
that, I'll use a disclaimer.]

-- 
Kirk Hays - NRA Life.
"You are getting hung up unnecessarily by the use of the words (and
their associated meanings).  What you should be doing is _ignoring_
the actual words...the words themselves are completely unimportant."
--brian@coombs.anu.edu.au