HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: ahabig@bigbang.astro.indiana.edu (Alec Habig)
Subject: Re: Pop code compromise?   Plague code?
Organization: Indiana University Astrophysics, Bloomington, IN
Date: Wed, 27 Jan 1993 16:17:49 GMT

In article <1k4gje$rbv@agate.berkeley.edu> beorn@elk.Berkeley.EDU (Beorn Johnson) writes:
>
>I see the following arguments concerning the pop-code:
[nice summary deleted]
>	A pop check that runs at less than 40 seconds is bad because:
>		3)  Taking an Agri is much harder because they will always
>			pop unless you can take it with one ship, or get
>			really lucky.
>			[ To me this is the strongest argument.  I notice
>			a huge difference taking agris on brono. ]

I'd put this under "a good thing about staggered pops", actually.  It gives
more strategic flavor to different planets - agri's are hard to take.  This
makes them more valuable, you have to try harder to take them, the other team
will try harder to hang on tho them (so that they don't have to retake it), and
more excitement is generated.

>	It seems to me that a scattered pop which checks _one_ planet 
>	(selected pseudo-randomly) _each_ second has the following advantages:
>		1) Does not permit a _global_ pop clock, so your scout
>			bombers aren't going to know to rush to a planet
>			at a specific time.
>		2) If you are watching one specific planet, you can sort of
>			judge when it might pop, but since the planet selection
>			is pseudo-random there is a range of planets.  Taking
>			an agri is still a little difficult but much more
>			like the original.
>		3) Scout bombers don't get stuck trying to bomb several
>			planets at once.
>		4) Coding is easy.

Not a bad compromise, certainly better than a 10 sec. clock.


	Alec
	(Entropy)
From: steffen@fb3-s7.math.TU-Berlin.DE (Matthias Steffen)
Newsgroups: rec.games.netrek
Subject: Re: European wants to play in an INL team
Date: 22 Jan 93 16:49:04
Organization: FB3, TU-Berlin, Germany.
NNTP-Posting-Host: fb3-s6.math.tu-berlin.de
In-reply-to: jwh@cs.bham.ac.uk's message of 22 Jan 93 13:21:08 GMT


If you find a pleasant time for playing I'm in !

Matthias

--
<Matthias Steffen                  | Technical University of Berlin     > 
<steffen@fb3-s7.math.tu-berlin.de  | Department of Mathematics          >
From: tundra@wyatt.ksu.ksu.edu (Daniel G. McDaniel)
Newsgroups: rec.games.netrek
Subject: Re: Abusive Misuse of Tedd Hadley's Server
Date: 22 Jan 1993 16:06:05 -0600
Organization: Kansas State University
Distribution: world
NNTP-Posting-Host: wyatt.ksu.ksu.edu


I think the chain reaction would look something like a bunch
of lemmings exploding hehehe :)

--
Tundra/Dan aka (Rubber Duck)
From: tang-nelson@cs.yale.edu (nelson tang)
Newsgroups: rec.games.netrek
Subject: server on Linux?
Date: 26 Jan 1993 16:46:20 -0500
Organization: Trumbull College, Yale University '94
Distribution: world
NNTP-Posting-Host: cobra.zoo2.cs.yale.edu

Hi.

I just put Linux + X on my 486 machine (an excellent package), and I am
working on setting up a SLIP connection to let me play 'trek.  But until
then, I'd like to set up a server on my machine just so I can play
against the robots or whatever.

Anyone have any knowledge/experience doing this?  Hints, tips, etc.
gratefully accepted.

Hoping to 'trek from the comfort of my own room,
--Nelson

-- 
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Nelson Tang,  TC '94				tang-nelson@yale.edu
P.O. Box 3992, Yale Station
New Haven, CT  06520-3992			(203) 436-0193
From: noah@cad.gatech.edu (Noah White)
Newsgroups: rec.games.netrek
Subject: Re: MIRAMAR Clue Game Results
Date: 24 Jan 1993 01:04:24 -0500
Organization: Georgia Institute of Technology
Distribution: usa
NNTP-Posting-Host: cae.cad.gatech.edu

In <1jspkg$igu@agate.berkeley.edu> tom@soda.berkeley.edu (Tom Holub) writes:

>In article <1jqs7dINNm16@cae.cad.gatech.edu> noah@cad.gatech.edu (Noah White) writes:
>)
>)  One player, turkey <local1@MORIARTY.THEORY.CS.CMU.EDU>, had some gripes
>)about either the server or the players or something. Seeing as this was my
>)first time running an `organized' game I am open for suggestions esp. from
>)more experienced server gods who have run these types of games. 

>Well, the big thing is to use the INL server.  It makes team selection
>and the game start much easier, you don't have to worry about resetting
>the galaxy or setting the planets to 30 armies, or making people Commanders 
>so they can base.  It's really hard to play an organized game on a normal
>server.

   I've already begun work on getting it to compile on the HP :) 

>Also, don't worry too much about people being ghostbusted or whatever.
>It's a clue game but it's just for fun; stopping the action every time
>there's some kind of problem just isn't worth it.

>Unfortunately, the level of play wasn't that high; I had about 14.5 DI
>when I got ghostbusted after a little more than an hour.  Losing
>turkey (Red Shirt) hurt, of course; he got frustrated with the 
>ragged start.
> -Mojo

   No I admit that the level wasn't too hi. I had 10 something worth of DI
in and hour or so and it definatly wasn't as tough as some bronco game's 
I`ve been on. Oh well at least it wasn't as bad as a sturgeon game though :)
Thanks for your suggestions!

			-Noah
From: keith@dogmatix.cs.uoregon.edu (Keith Steiger)
Newsgroups: rec.games.netrek
Subject: Re: Clueless games
Date: 23 Jan 93 04:22:55 GMT
Organization: University of Oregon Computer and Information Sciences Dept.

hendric@matt.ksu.ksu.edu (Richard Hendricks) writes:
>ahabig@bigbang.astro.indiana.edu (Alec Habig) writes:
>>Of course, they should still be bumped out (otherwise they will minimize the
>>help screen and continue to wander uselessly), but give 'em a nice big
>>explanation of _why_ they were booted so they can learn what the server god
>>is trying to teach them.
>Sadly, I think there might be a conspiracy of clueless people
>here(not necessarily newbies).  I have sat next to, and watched,
>someone logon to the 'clue' server, send the message to himself,
>and promptly _turn_off_his_message_window!  I asked him, and he
>said, 'oh yeah, first time I played, I noticed that message.  I
>just send the thing to myself and turn it off.'  Evenually, I
>noticed about four of his friends do the _same_thing.  I asked
>them about clue, and he said something about he is a good player.
>I then asked about the messages, and he said he ignored them!!
>SOme people need to taken to places far away and shot.  So far,
>in the quest for clue, message reading, and responding to
>messages seems to me to be the most important part. 

Some days, I think that 60% of mankind is fundamentally stupid.
Other days, I'm not that optimistic.

If people are really doing this, then the process needs to be repeated every
15 minutes or so.  That way, they'll get annoyed enough by their own death
that they either keep up their message window or play elsewhere.

And the time should probably be a random period--every 10-20 minutes--so they
can't cheese out by going "Oh, it's been a while--I should bring up the
message window".

	Keith Steiger
	(who is still a little rusty after 9 months away from the sport)
	"When half of my team reads messages, I consider myself lucky."
Newsgroups: rec.games.netrek
From: colles@vccnw06.its.rpi.edu (Grey Knight (Shawn Collenburg))
Subject: Re: New Sturgeon Style Server
Date: Thu, 21 Jan 1993 18:28:56 GMT

echeverr@scf.usc.edu (5150) writes:

>In article <1jehq6INNs8g@champ.ksu.ksu.edu> scottwb@champ.ksu.ksu.edu (Scott W Butler) writes:
>>I dont understand why every one loaths sturgeon so much, its a conspiracy.

>Well, hell's bells.  I enjoy playing on experimental servers.  But, say,
                      ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>hockey doesn't attract weenies, or make weenies out of good players.  Sturgeon
>turns you into an egotistical runner scum, and that's the worst kind of player
>in regular netrek.  Want to play sturgeon?  Fine.  Just don't go play anywhere
>else; at least, not on my team.

I'm not one for impoliteness, but F* you. I "enjoy" playing on sturgeon,
since I can play the "egotistical runner scum" there. Anywhere else,
you do that, and you loose. Sturgeon gives me a change of pace from
the demands of teamwork.

Grey Knight
From: bav@hobbes.ksu.ksu.edu (Brick Verser)
Newsgroups: rec.games.netrek
Subject: Re: From the CounCILboY:  Your news reps are... [drum roll]
Date: 26 Jan 93 22:58:48 GMT
Organization: Kansas State University
NNTP-Posting-Host: hobbes.ksu.ksu.edu

rhodesia@wixer.cactus.org (Felix S. Gallo) writes:
>osyjm@cs.montana.edu (Jaye Mathisen) writes:
> [. . .]
>>Brian Paulsen -- 4 
>>Felix Gallo -- 4
>
>Tied with BRIAN PAULSEN?  Oh, someone just *shoot me.*
> [. . .]
>
>Well, my loyal followers and I won't take this lying down!  WE
>DECLARE THIS ELECTION VOID!  There was OBVIOUS ballot stuffing
>by the would-be so-called ""winners""!
> [. . .]

Gee...I can't imagine why he didn't win.

--Brick
Organization: Senior, Chemical Engineering, Carnegie Mellon, Pittsburgh, PA
Newsgroups: rec.games.netrek
Date: Wed, 27 Jan 1993 15:16:51 -0500 
From: Kevin Michael Bernatz <kb32+@andrew.cmu.edu>
Subject: Re: Halftime
	<1k2hr5$gnh@agate.berkeley.edu>

Excerpts from netnews.rec.games.netrek: 26-Jan-93 Re: Halftime Tom
Holub@soda.berkeley. (1432)

> In any case, if halftime affects the game as much as its detractors claim,
> it falls firmly in the first category, and shouldn't be configurable
> (under our previous decision).  Perhaps that will change, but I doubt it.
>  -Tom

1) A Poof halftime affects games big time and shouldn't be used IMO.
2) A Pause halftime affects games because it annoys people who don't want it. 
3) No halftime affects games because captains unable to comminicate and
play can't change strategies and some people need to change their
undergarments.

Of the 3, I think the least "grey area" is occured in #3.  Again (as in
all of my posts) this is IMNSFHO.

-KB
From: sl7sg@cc.usu.edu
Newsgroups: rec.games.netrek
Subject: Re: DD's need improvement!
Date: 21 Jan 93 19:06:20 MDT
Organization: Utah State University

In article <1993Jan21.205121.24813@noose.ecn.purdue.edu>, bdhall@todd.ecn.purdue.edu (Brian D Hall) writes:
> 	I vote no, and I'll tell you why....   Fife had the DD with 35pt torps
> for a while.  Basically what it did was make approx. 68% of the players choose
> the DD.  That tells me that the DD was too powerful and is why the torps were
> put back at 30pts.  

	Actually, most people probably played it, because it was a novelty, at
35 points, they still don't compare to a CA's or BB's 40 points.  After time,
it probably would have worn off.
	Furthermore, I have found that most people cannot handle a CA
correctly, so I can run around in a DD, with greater maneuverability, (I think
this is a just sacrifice for power) and usually do quite well.  The only time I
would use a CA vs a CA, is when there is a capable player piloting one...


		-Lynx
From: noah@cad.gatech.edu (Noah White)
Newsgroups: rec.games.netrek
Subject: CLUE GAME TONIGHT
Date: 22 Jan 1993 15:02:11 -0500
Organization: Georgia Institute of Technology
Distribution: usa
NNTP-Posting-Host: cae.cad.gatech.edu


     This is an open invite for a clue game tonight at 8pm on
miramar.cad.gatech.edu. Hopefully we can get the teams filled by 8:15pm.
We are the standard bronco 2 kills for plasma style server. I am 
requesting that those who play be of at least Captain rank on another
server. Non readers will get the BOOT! I look forward to seeing you there.

			-Noah



Newsgroups: rec.games.netrek
From: george@ece.cmu.edu (George Cebulka)
Subject: Re: Pop code compromise?   Plague code?
Originator: george@taca.ece.cmu.edu
Reply-To: george@ece.cmu.edu (George Cebulka)
Organization: Electrical and Computer Engineering, Carnegie Mellon
Date: Thu, 28 Jan 1993 00:18:00 GMT


In article <1k4gje$rbv@agate.berkeley.edu>, beorn@elk.Berkeley.EDU (Beorn Johnson) writes:
|>From: beorn@elk.Berkeley.EDU (Beorn Johnson)

|>I see the following arguments concerning the pop-code:
|>
|>	A 40 second pop check on all planets is bad because:

|>		3) Bronco does 10 second pops and bronco is the original
|>			definition of the game.
|>			[ This argument works well, but not on me . . .]
|>			all at once after 40 seconds rather than seeing
|>			one army every 40/3 seconds?

Hey, it doesn't work well on me either (or on bronco). Bronco has been doing 40
second pops for over a week.

|>			[ I don't know . . . ]
|>
|>	A pop check that runs at less than 40 seconds is bad because:
|>		3)  Taking an Agri is much harder because they will always
|>			pop unless you can take it with one ship, or get
|>			really lucky.
|>			[ To me this is the strongest argument.  I notice
|>			a huge difference taking agris on brono. ]

When is the last time you played on bronco?

|>
|>	It seems to me that a scattered pop which checks _one_ planet 
|>	(selected pseudo-randomly) _each_ second has the following advantages:
|>		1) Does not permit a _global_ pop clock, so your scout
|>			bombers aren't going to know to rush to a planet
|>			at a specific time.
|>		2) If you are watching one specific planet, you can sort of
|>			judge when it might pop, but since the planet selection
|>			is pseudo-random there is a range of planets.  Taking
|>			an agri is still a little difficult but much more
|>			like the original.
|>		3) Scout bombers don't get stuck trying to bomb several
|>			planets at once.
|>		4) Coding is easy.

Good come up with the code then. Also make sure it is bug free.

-- 
George Cebulka, ECE Facilities
From: tom@soda.berkeley.edu (Tom Holub)
Newsgroups: rec.games.netrek
Subject: Re: From the CounCILboY: Your news reps are... [drum roll]
Date: 28 Jan 1993 09:19:47 GMT
Organization: U.C. Berkeley, CS Undergraduate Association
NNTP-Posting-Host: soda.berkeley.edu

In article <1993Jan28.023414@IASTATE.EDU> exodus@IASTATE.EDU writes:
)
)
)
)Are you people at INL too goddamn
)lazy to even check back with the cantidates before starting
)the damn voting?

No lazier than the people who nominated them without asking them.
The INL Council is made up of volunteers.  We don't get paid, we
don't get any perks, and we all (like most people who play netrek)
are short on time.  Why does the responsibility lie with the Council
and not with the nominators?  

We don't have the time to re-do the election; we need to make a bunch
of decisions this week.  I have complete confidence that both new
members will do a fine job.
 -Tom
Newsgroups: rec.games.netrek
From: tjrad@iastate.edu (Thomas J Radosevich)
Subject: Re: Another Base lost!!!!!
Organization: Iowa State University, Ames IA
Date: Fri, 22 Jan 1993 18:14:07 GMT

In <mck3cl_@rpi.edu> kumara2@barh110.its.rpi.edu (Anuj Kumar) writes:

>      I am asking that something be done about this, so Gajah, if you're 
>listening, fry the bastard!!!!!!!! Also, woof sent you some messages regarding
>the problem.

>                                                              -slut
>                                                               Anuj
>       

I was in the game also, as a rom though, and he pissed me off enough to
leave.  Getting there is more fun than winning--ditto the above sentiment.

Tom
From: paulsen@eniac.seas.upenn.edu (Brian Paulsen)
Newsgroups: rec.games.netrek
Subject: Re: Halftime
Date: 27 Jan 93 00:45:00 GMT
Organization: University of Pennsylvania

In article <1k48ui$pkg@agate.berkeley.edu> tom@soda.berkeley.edu (Tom Holub) writes:

))) The Council in the past has unanimously agreed that all games should be
))) played on identical servers; it is very unlikely that this will change.
))) Your argument is spurious; if both captains want to play a 15 minute
))) game, can they do that?

))) The Council will be discussing halftime again.  I intend to push
))) strongly for a halftime, a shorter game, or both.  

Remember, Tom, beware of the repetitive hand motion disorder during
Halftime...

))Good, and I will remember not to vote for at next election.

)That's your right.

Since I can't really figure out what that sentence was supposed to mean,
I'm going to assume he meant he won't vote for you during the next
election.  Am I to assume that all INL council positions will be up for
election next time?  Or, will Tom be able to sit on the council until he
decides to retire?

))No Tom.  The original halftime proposal was ludicrous (everyone dies,
))armies carried die, etc).  Starting out at a ludicrous position then
))dropping down to something that people still oppose, but is at least
))reasonable, is NOT making a compromise.  

)A lot of people were for the original proposal; it passed the first
)INL Council vote, and during the flame wars I got a lot of positive
)mail.  The idea was not 'ludicrous', then or now.  

First of all, I've said many times about how I felt about the INL council.
I'm kinda stunned that anybody would recommend that a *poof* halftime is
a good idea.

Second, I get lots of mail from people saying that their DD's will kick
my ass when I'm in a CA.  Just because I get mail doesn't make the idea
less ludicrous.

Brian
From: kb32+@andrew.cmu.edu (Kevin Michael Bernatz)
Newsgroups: rec.games.netrek
Subject: Re: Halftime
Date: 27 Jan 93 06:13:20 GMT
Article-I.D.: andrew.8fNfGUm00VpHR94kpe
	<1k1gh3$9eq@agate.berkeley.edu>
Organization: Senior, Chemical Engineering, Carnegie Mellon, Pittsburgh, PA

Excerpts from netnews.rec.games.netrek: 25-Jan-93 Re: Halftime Tom
Holub@soda.berkeley. (2456)

> Oh, God forbid that anyone actually have to go to the bathroom some
> time in a 2.5 hour period.  If you think netrek is more important
> than going to the bathroom you need some perspective.

That is why teams have subs.....  And if you can't NOT go to the
bathroom (gotta love those double negatives) for 2 hours (assuming you
have went right before the game starts) you either need help or are
incontinent (I know there are some people who *have* to go, and if
mentioned prior to the game to the opposing captain I'm sure
arrangements could be made).  

Excerpts from netnews.rec.games.netrek: 25-Jan-93 Re: Halftime Tom
Holub@soda.berkeley. (2456)

> Because--get ready for a bulletin here--some people think the games
> last too long.  They are grueling and they don't really give an underdog
> a chance for an upset.

Real men used to play 3 hour games :).  Any game less then 2 hours isn't
worth it IMO.  More than likely you have to take time out of your
schedule just to play, and some people have to actually travel to make
the games.  To go through all the trouble for only 120 minutes is
sometimes not worth it...to go through it for 90 would tend to push some
people out of the INL I would expect.  

Excerpts from netnews.rec.games.netrek: 25-Jan-93 Re: Halftime Tom
Holub@soda.berkeley. (2456)

> So should the NBA go to one 48-minute period?

The NBA doesn't have one 48-minute period because the players would die.
 Haven't you ever seen Jorden go to the bench after playing for a
quarter or so and have beads of sweat dripping off him..or Barkley at he
free throw line after slamming over Divak.  They are tired!  They need
the break.  I hardly find netrek as a physical sport!  (Unless of course
you consider Mice Tossing and Wrestling an everyday part of netrek).

-KB

P.S.  In the same vein as your anti-CMU knocking, just becuase YOU feel
a halftime is justified doesn't mean that YOU are the bastion of clue
either.  It just so happens that YOU are on the INL council, in part
because YOU created it (and did a good job), and YOU are biased against
CMU.  To be perfectly honest, I think you are too biased to effectively
hold office and represent all netrekers impartially....but that is my
opinion.
From: tom@soda.berkeley.edu (Tom Holub)
Newsgroups: rec.games.netrek
Subject: Re: Halftime
Date: 26 Jan 1993 02:32:46 GMT
Organization: U.C. Berkeley, CS Undergraduate Association
NNTP-Posting-Host: soda.berkeley.edu

In article <1993Jan25.222137.107@pasteur.Berkeley.EDU> von@cory.Berkeley.EDU (Steve Von Worley) writes:
)In article <1k1gh3$9eq@agate.berkeley.edu> tom@soda.berkeley.edu (Tom Holub) writes:
)>)
)>)Please remove the pause feature, then.  A pause inserts a random, 
)>)disturbing inhomogeneity (is that a word?) into the flow of the game.
)>)Especially when people use it for conveniences like going to the
)>)bathroom.
)>
)>Oh, God forbid that anyone actually have to go to the bathroom some
)>time in a 2.5 hour period.  If you think netrek is more important
)>than going to the bathroom you need some perspective.
)
)If you can't go to the bathroom directly before the game and make it
)through, maybe you need Depends.

Or maybe you've been drinking a lot of Coke because you're a student
who's gotten almost no sleep this week.  I can name a number of people
who've had problems making it through a game; we're not all iron
bladder netrek machines like you, Steve.

)>So should the NBA go to one 48-minute period?
)
)If the players could physically endure 48 continuous minutes of 
)basketball, I would have no problem with it.  Although I'm sure other
)people might disagree.
)
)But we digress; basketball has nothing to do with netrek.

It's called an analogy, and I feel it's a good one.  Netrek doesn't
have the physical component that basketball does, but it's difficult
and arguably damaging to stay mentally focused for 2.5 hours.  It's
also damaging to your hands--it's a fair bet that a large percentage
of netrek players will wind up with repetitive hand motion disorders
sometime in their lives--and when you gotta go, you gotta go. 

Remember, in a pickup game, if your wrist hurts or you have to piss
or you're just plain burnt out, you can quit the game.  INL play is
much more stressful than pickup games and there needs to be some
sort of break.
 -Tom
From: mdm@cis.ohio-state.edu (Michael Moore)
Newsgroups: rec.games.netrek
Subject: Re: Pop Timer
Date: 27 Jan 1993 08:53:14 -0500
Organization: The Ohio State University Dept. of Computer and Info. Science
NNTP-Posting-Host: hadrosaur.cis.ohio-state.edu

In article <1k55hg$2ov@agate.berkeley.edu> tom@soda.berkeley.edu (Tom Holub) writes:
>
>How do you mean?  It would be possible to write an X application that
>looks at the icons along with their last position, figures out their
>speed and direction, and draws a dot on the screen in the appropriate
>place.  None of this would touch the client or the information from
>the server; it would be totally independent.  Should it be allowed?
>I sure think not.
> -Tom


	The only way I can think of doing this would be to sniff the
protocol as it came out.  On the Xlib level, I am not aware of any
way to monitor drawing requests when you can't access the source
code and modify a few things.  

	Hacking this on the protocol level would probably be a pain
in the ass, but entirely possible.  Things like xtv do this sort
of stuff already.  

	Anyway, I don't anticipate it coming into being anytime soon,
but if someone were sufficiently malicious or sadistic enough, then
they could probably make the whole RSA effort moot.

	-Michael )Ged(  SB Law # 12 - Never make mistakes, drop packets.

PS - Greg Chung -->  I really am sorry.
From: polk@Metaphor.COM (Ben Polk)
Newsgroups: rec.games.netrek
Subject: Re: Another Base lost!!!!!
Date: 22 Jan 93 21:24:44 GMT
Reply-To: polk@Metaphor.COM (Ben Polk)
Organization: m4

Slut writes:
>I think his login id was lyoda or something. He logged in twice, first as
>a fed then as a Rom and started to play his Rom character. He too joined in on 
>the ogg, and on one wave, they really hit me hard. With Earth in trouble, I went
>to

Yep.  He's a dick alright.  You can count on him to be doing
something obnoxious in any game he's in.  He's not very good either.
I feel sorry for the other people at ISU that have to deal with
him.  Perhaps his hormonal development will proceed eventually
and he'll get past the spotty obnoxious undergrad stage.  Or maybe
not.