HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: heidi@ucthpx.uct.ac.za (Heidi de Wet)
Subject: Positive aspects of culture (was Re: GAY AFRICANS AGAIN PAUL)
Date: Fri, 20 Nov 92 10:24:45 GMT
Organization: Dept of Elec Eng, UCT

jbouncer@warren.med.harvard.edu writes:
>If gay is something good you'll be trying to prove that it's not African,
>but because this stuff is morally flawed then it most exist in Africa.  

I think you've got the wrong end of the stick here.  The people who
post here claiming that homosexuality is unknown in Africa are the
ones who think there's something wrong with it.  The opposing 
viewpoint is that homosexuality is entirely natural and occurs in
every population, therefore homosexual people must occur in Africa 
as well as everywhere else.

>For those that think gay is part of an African culture, 

Hmm.  Although a tendency to homosexuality probably exists in 10% of
every population, I think it's been demonstrated amply in this group
that abhorrence and suppression of homosexuality are part of African 
culture.  But then, acceptance of homosexuality hasn't featured much 
in Western culture either for the last few centuries, until very 
recently.

>can you also tell me (us) something really positive in the West and 
>also part of an African culture?

I find it difficult to talk about positive aspects of a certain culture
without comparing it to another culture.  I think there are positive
aspects of indigenous African culture - warmth, hospitality, consensus
politics* - which are largely lacking from Western culture.  Most of 
these things probably existed in Western cultures before imperialism 
and the industrial revolution.  There are negative aspects of indigenous 
African culture - superstition, oppression of women - which have 
certainly been part of Western culture but are slowly being eradicated 
with better education and other benefits of the industrial revolution.  
I haven't a clue how to reintroduce into Western culture the positive 
things that have disappeared, hence I don't often talk about them (and 
this group wouldn't be the place, anyway.)  But I have a strong hope 
that African culture can adopt new positive aspects and relinquish its 
negative aspects without losing its own positive aspects, so it seems 
worthwhile to discuss these issues.  If that seems one-sided it's
unfortunate.

* I've been reading Allister Sparks's book, _The Mind of South Africa_, 
and he reckons that consensus politics and negotiated decision-making 
were major features of black culture in South Africa when the whites 
arrived.  I confess it surprised me, but I have no reason to doubt the 
book's research :-)  I'm finding the whole book fascinating, and highly 
recommend it.

-- 
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Heidi de Wet                                 >>>  FREE  TSAFENDAS  <<<
heidi@ucthpx.uct.ac.za                       and give him back his job
From: pmmst8+@pitt.edu (Paul M Mweene)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.african
Subject: Re: Gay AFRICANS OSELE
Date: 23 Nov 92 00:42:33 GMT
Organization: University of Pittsburgh

In article <1992Nov20.221753.17047@nas.nasa.gov> bross@splatter.nas.nasa.gov (Wilson S. Ross) writes:
>Actually, what makes _me_ suspicious that homosexuality (observed in
>vertebrates in general) might also exist in Africans in spite of such
>statements as the one above is the moralistic tone - in Western society
>we are used to seeing this voice used when covering things up (sometimes 
>from the speaker as well as the audience).

You are making the mistake of thinking that Africans behave like westerners.
A) your suspicions don't count because we who know the reality KNOW that 
it is NOT there in Africa. If you begin from the premise that it must be
there, you will have problems realizing that in our societies it is not there.
b) I don't know about all vertebrates being involved in it but I will say this
 even African dogs don't indulge in it.  But just like you should not make ass
 umptions on our behalf, I will make any on your behalf and will there for 
desist from saying wether it is or is not there in western dogs (even though
 I think western dogs are as normal as African dogs). w
> If I was a gay African, what 
>would I gain from telling Kiggundu about it?    -Bill Ross

There will be Africans who are like this when there are Africans who are
colored like the rainbow. sorry.

makala
>
From: philip@concave.cs.wits.ac.za (Philip Machanick)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.african
Subject: Scandal alert: more to follow
Date: 17 Nov 92 07:26:55 GMT
Article-I.D.: shannon.1992Nov17.072655.669
Organization: Computer Science Dept, Wits University
X-Xxdate: Tue, 17 Nov 92 09:16:02 GMT
X-Useragent: Nuntius v1.1.1d12

This is a real big one so I thought a short summary of what I heard on
radio news would be worth posting followed up by a fuller (more accurate)
report based on reading the afternoon paper (Star).

The Goldstone commission (investigating vauses of violence etc.) raided
the SADF and confiscated secret files that showed that Military
Intelligence (sic) operative convicted murderer Ferdi Barnard had been
running a project to discredit the ANC which among other things involved
prostitutes and drug addicts. This at a time when the government had
claimed it had terminated all covert political projects and was
negotiating with the ANC "in good faith".

To cap it all, the person who was involved in getting him the job had
earlier testified to the Webster inquest that Barnard had never been
in the employ of MI.

This is from memory so I may have a few details wrong - more later.
--
Philip Machanick
Computer Science Dept, Univ of the Witwatersrand, 2050 Wits, South Africa
philip@concave.cs.wits.ac.za  phone: 27 (11) 716-3759  fax: 339-7965
From: tonyp@ucthpx.uct.ac.za (Tony Putman)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.african
Subject: Re: South African Contacts
Date: 17 Nov 92 09:01:39 GMT
Organization: Dept of Elec Eng, UCT

hllhar01@uctvax.uct.ac.za writes:

>You know Paul, a funny thing happened yesterday. I received e-mail from
>somebody I know at Pittsburgh (correspondence about academic work). Anyway, as
>an after-thought (since you are never foremost in my mind) I enquired about
>you. Now, this fellow doesn't ever read s.c.a., and so he had understandably
>never heard of you. However, he did consent to undertake a little P.I. work
>for me. The amazing result of this was that your e-mail number isn't that of a
>black person, but of a WHITE undergraduate student by the name of Paul
>McIntosh!!!

: finger pmmst8+@pitt.edu
[pitt.edu]
Login name: pmmst8    			In real life: Paul M Mweene
Directory: /afs/pitt.edu/usr18/pmmst8	Shell: /bin/bash
Address mail to: pmmst8+@pitt.edu
Affiliation: Universal Student Computing [Provost]
Account used on Tue Nov 17 03:20 (7 minutes 21 seconds ago).
No Plan.

-- 
       Tony Putman,        :                Magic Theatre
  Dept of Elec Eng, UCT    :         Entrance not for Everybody
  tonyp@ucthpx.uct.ac.za   :               For Madmen Only!
Newsgroups: soc.culture.african
From: heidi@ucthpx.uct.ac.za (Heidi de Wet)
Subject: Re: Walt Mweene Disney does UCT
Date: Mon, 16 Nov 92 09:16:43 GMT
Organization: Dept of Elec Eng, UCT

pmmst8+@pitt.edu (Paul M Mweene) writes:
>In article <1992Nov12.143143.7054@ucthpx.uct.ac.za> gavan@elc.mth.uct.ac.za (Gavan Tredoux) writes:
>>Note racist labelling of people as boers. 
>
>There is no racism in this. Boer is a Dutch (Afrikaans) word meaning farmer
>given to the boers by themselves.

Not many of the white people posting in this group are Afrikaans, and 
I suspect that none of them are farmers, so your choice of term is at 
best inappropriate.  And whether or not it was intended to be pejorative 
has nothing to do with whether or not it was racist.

-- 
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Heidi de Wet                                 >>>  FREE  TSAFENDAS  <<<
heidi@ucthpx.uct.ac.za                       and give him back his job
From: jnr@igc.apc.org (Jim Rosenfield)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.african
Subject: Re: Somalia actions
Date: 20 Nov 92 17:23:00 GMT
Nf-ID: #R:1ehd73INNcb4@usenet.ins.cwru.edu:2007503469:cdp:1471700262:000:983
Nf-From: cdp.UUCP!jnr    Nov 20 09:23:00 1992



RESULTS     (The grassroots lobby for the end of hunger)

HUNGER ACTION SHEET - NOVEMBER 1992

The full text is available in HUNGER.GENERAL.  Prox 8kB

Excerpt:

Write a letter to the editor calling on the Clinton Administration
to make fulfilling the goals of the World Summit For Children a 
centerpiece of US foreign policy. 

Urge President-elect Clinton to push to have James Grant appointed
to an unprecedented fourth term as Executive Director of UNICEF
when his term expires in 1994. 

********************************************************************


The full text includes some excellent background material which can be
free redistributed to your newspaper editors as well as your political
leaders.  Hundreds of RESULTS volunteers receive this Action Sheet
and are now writing letters to their newspaper editors urging them
to write ediotorials calling for urgent action.  This kind of
agitation has been proven to work in situations like this
over and over again.
Newsgroups: soc.culture.african
From: mukasa@panix.com (Michael Mukasa)
Subject: Re: Renamo
Date: Sat, 21 Nov 1992 19:25:44 GMT
Organization: Panix, NYC

In <2998.2B0D2CA9@catpe.alt.za> Pedro.Buccellato@p0.f20.n7101.z5.fidonet.org (Pedro Buccellato) writes:

>                     "Understanding Mozambique"
>---------------------------------------------------------------------
>                             * RENAMO *
>                  Resistencia Nacional Mocambicana
>                  (Mozambican National Resistance)

>Introduction
>------------

>Renamo is  a much misunderstood organisation  with a reputation second
>only to Hitler's  Nazis, yet nothing could be  further from the truth.
>In this series of articles I hope  to shed some light on the matter.

>Renamo  is  a  Resistance  Movement  -  not  a  political party, not a
>liberation movement and certainly not a band of mindless murderers.



>======================================================================

>INTERNET: Pedro.Buccellato@p0.f20.n7101.z5.fidonet.org
>via:  THE CATALYST BBS in Port Elizabeth, South Africa.
>       (catpe.alt.za)   +27-41-34-1122 HST or +27-41-34-2859, V32bis & HST.



You obviously do not know what the f*** you are talking about.  I have
seen dogs with more intelligence.
I will not argue with an idiot so that people will not mistake us for the
same species.

Take your Colonial/West-is-always-correct crap and shove it.


Kiggundu
From: cscoging@unpcs1.cs.unp.ac.za (Chris Scogings)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.african
Subject: Re: Star Editorial
Date: 21 Nov 92 15:43:27 GMT
Article-I.D.: unpcs1.cscoging.28.722360607
Organization: Dept. Computer Science, UNP
NNTP-Posting-Host: pc091.cc.unp.ac.za

From: imofoke1@cc.swarthmore.edu (Ivan Mofokeng)
>yeh, the Mail is dedicated to revealing anything that the armed forces are
>involved in, ie. anything that is to the detriment of the reconciliation
>process.  if my memory serves me well, a lot of people rebuked the Mail for
>spreading making wild accusations.  some went as far as insinuating that it
>was supportive of the anc course (does that ring any bells, govan).  but
>then , the mail kept onat it.  the job of the people at the mail have
>produced results.  let us applaud their efforts.  i hope they kept on doing
>the good job.

NO! NO! 

You must not applaud the people at the Weekly Mail.  They are mainly white
South Africans and ALL white South Africans are boers, racists, liars, etc
(ask Makala, he knows this)

Never try to teach a pig to sing
It wastes your time and annoys the pig
                               - Robert Heinlein
From: 9027882@sunvax.sun.ac.za
Newsgroups: soc.culture.african
Subject: Kou-wa-banga Afrikana! (was Re: Walt Mweene Disney does UCT)
Date: 18 Nov 92 22:13:33 GMT
Article-I.D.: sunvax.1992Nov18.201333.5643
Reply-To: ferr@cs.sun.ac.za <Johan Ferreira>
Organization: University of Stellenbosch

Riel Smit skryf:
> [...]
> van maatskaplike dienste, of wat dit ook al mag wees in Afrikaans.  (En
> askies vir die swak maniere om kommentaar te lewer op jou taalgebruik, maar 
> dis nie aldag dat 'n mens 'n goeie verskoning het om in Afrikaans op die 
> net te pos nie :-)

Ek weet dat Engels die Usenet taal is, maar aangesien hierdie 'n
soc.* groep is, dink ek dis geregverdig om in 'n "soc.african" taal
te skryf.  Wat is die gevoel van andere?

Een skrywer het voorheen opgemerk dat daar skaars Afrikaansprekendes
is wat hierdie groep lees.  Dis miskien die geval by die betrokke
skrywer se universiteit, wat UCT was.  Daar is heel party studente
(en andere) hier by die Univ. van Stellenbosch wat die nuusgroepe
lees.  Die afwesigheid van artikels van hierdie mense in hierdie
nuusgroep is heel moontlik te wyte aan die negatiewe draad en
katterigheid wat waarneembaar is.

Nou het elke afrikaansprekende 'n verskoning om hier te pos; om
vir andere te wys dat ons nie 'n swartgallig klomp brompotte is,
wat heeldag die finger in die lug rond swaai nie.  Ons is vrolike
mense, met interresante belangstellings.

Groete,
Johan Ferreira
(ferr@cs.sun.ac.za)
From: ccfj@hippo.ru.ac.za (F. Jacot Guillarmod)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.african
Subject: Re: Kou-wa-banga Afrikana! (was Re: Walt Mweene Disney does UCT)
Date: 18 Nov 92 19:13:56 GMT
Organization: Rhodes University, Grahamstown, South Africa

In <1992Nov18.201333.5643@sunvax.sun.ac.za> 9027882@sunvax.sun.ac.za writes:

>Ek weet dat Engels die Usenet taal is, maar aangesien hierdie 'n
>soc.* groep is, dink ek dis geregverdig om in 'n "soc.african" taal
>te skryf.  Wat is die gevoel van andere?

Hoekom nie?  Maar as 'n mens meer belangstel in die taal aspekte as in die
kultuur, bestaan daar "soc.culture.netherlands" wat Nederlands en Vlaams
sprekendes akkomodeer.  Die oorspronklike "charter" van die groep, as ek
mooi onthou, het wel vir Afrikaans-sprekendes voorsiening gemaak.

Dis nou nie bedoel om Afrikaners van hierdie groep weg te jaag - net om
aandag te bring dat daar is miskien ander groepe op Usenet wat vir
hulle interessant kan wees.
-- 
  F.F. Jacot Guillarmod     PO  Box 94     \        |     ccfj@hippo.ru.ac.za
  Computing Centre       Grahamstown 6140   \      /     +27 461 22023 xt 284
  Rhodes University        South Africa      ;___*/   33 18 30 S | 26 31 45 E
Newsgroups: soc.culture.african
From: apj@beldin.sun.ac.za (Andries Dippenaar)
Subject: Re: Kou-wa-banga Afrikana! (was Re: Walt Mweene Disney does UCT)
Organization: Rhodes University, Grahamstown, South Africa
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1 PL6]
Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1992 13:43:20 GMT

F. Jacot Guillarmod (ccfj@hippo.ru.ac.za) wrote:
: In <1992Nov20.131746.5646@sunvax.sun.ac.za> 9027882@sunvax.sun.ac.za writes:
: 
: >                                            Cape Penisial (sp?).
: 
: We were wondering about that....  no wonder Makala is worried about the
: Western Cape.

I must say I've always had my own suspicions about Cape Point, but now
ferris has made the source abundantly clear.  At least there's
something to be thankful for, it could have been another penal colony.

Andries
***********************************************************************
*       /|~~\ * APJ Dippenaar        * "If you wanna make the world a *
*     /__|__/ * apj@beldin.sun.ac.za *  better place, take a look at  *
*   /    |    * Univ of Stellenbosch *  yourself and make a change."  *
* /   \__|    * South Africa         *             -- Michael Jackson *
***********************************************************************
From: mukasa@panix.com (Michael K Mukasa)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.african
Subject: Posting in afrikaans
Date: 23 Nov 92 17:53:49 GMT
Organization: Panix, NYC

It seems that prejudice, ignorance or just plain stubboness has been the
norm in replying to my article.
Replies are trying to justify posting in afrikaans because of numbers of
speakers or how widely it is spoken.  A very interesting argument from
people who live in a country where the MAJORITY cannot even vote.
I did not say EVER that afrikaaners should abandon their culture, just
like I would not tell Germans to abandon their culture for killing Jews. 
On the other hand I would not support ANY German action inflamed the
survivors of the holocust.  That is why I asked for people to "refrain"
from those actions.  If the argument is about how many people speak an
african language or which language is taught in American institutions (I
guess this is a measure of how foar you have developed in the world,
according to some people) I say that everyone should start posting in
Kiswahili or Hausa.  They are the first and second most populous languages
in Africa.  BTW they are both taught in American Institutions.  This group
should be about discusing Afircan Culture in all its forms both positive
and negative, not preaching racisim, cultural and moral supiriority and
other bull**** that seems to come out of the southern part of the continent.
Everyone down there shouts over and over again that they do not support
apartheid.  As the saying goes "Even the devil can quote the bible."  They
are living comfortablely enjoying the services and privlages inherited
through brutality, murder and other crimes too numerous to count. 
Condemmed by the WORLD for years and YEARS.  Then some of them say that
these oppresive laws are now gone.  PEOPLE HEAR US, THEY VANISHED JUST
LIKE THAT IN A PUFF OF SMOKE.  EVERYTHING IS FIINNNNEEEE !!!!!
Every day something new pops up in the news about SADF and other forces
overtly and covertly propagating the "OLD" system.  I ask them what are
they doing about this, WHAT?

YOU ARE DIRECTLY BENEFITTING FROM APARTHEID PAST AND PRESENT.  IF YOU
HATEV IT SO MUCH WHAT ARE YOU DOING TO HELP CORRECT THE WRONGS, WHAT?  I
DONT WANT TO HEAR ABOUT SPEACHES.

ACTIONS SPEAK LOUDER THAN WORDS.

More is being spent on your education TODAY that is being spent on
Africans enabling you to read and post tto this group unlike other
Africans who cannot. 

Have you stormed the administration buildings DEMANDING more privlages for
the disenfrancised EVEN AT THE COST TO SOME OF YOUR PROGRAMS.

When you get sick, where do you go for treatment?  A nice "Whites Only"
hospital.  If more of you went to the hospitals where the majority of
Africans went, maybe the government would pay more attention to them and
give them more funding because we all know that a WHITE  life is more
precious than that of a KAFFIR so who cares if they have poor health care.
 Who cares if they die.

You are all hipocrites as far as I am concerned IF you say you do not
support a system you benefit from and DO NOTHING to help the people it hurts.

Kiggundu.
Newsgroups: soc.culture.african
From: barnhart@ddsw1.mcs.com (Mr. Aaron Barnhart)
Subject: Just a repression (was Re: Just a thought - [subject deleted]
Date: Wed, 18 Nov 1992 23:51:12 GMT
Organization: Evanston, Illinois, U.S.A.

llk@kepler.unh.edu (Local Genius) wrote:
:  In article <1992Nov15.194214.17201@ucthpx.uct.ac.za> brendt@dip2.ee.uct.ac.za (Brendt Wohlberg) writes:
:  
:  >Do you understand what freedom of speech is? It does not include the freedom
:  >to slander individuals and institutions. I personally hope that UCT considers
:  >legal action against you for your blatantly false claims. This is unlikely
:  
:  If the UCT admin "considers legal action" against Makala, my suggestion would
:  be that the admin should be fired pronto...


And I would simply add that Mr. Wohlberg understands what SA's version
of "freedom of speech" is -- by immediately clamping arbitrary unfreedoms
onto it -- and that makala has joyously embraced the American version,
freedom unconditionally, that reflects the best of what this country has
to offer.

Of course, as you'll soon discover when reading Nat Hentoff's new book,
_Free Speech for Me But Not for Thee_, this country is on its best
behavior only every so often.

Aaron
Newsgroups: soc.culture.african
From: nrswart@phonon.uwaterloo.ca (Nicholas R. Swart)
Subject: Re: South African Contacts
Organization: University of Waterloo
Date: Tue, 17 Nov 1992 00:02:18 GMT

In article <1992Nov16.154459.203284@uctvax.uct.ac.za> hllhar01@uctvax.uct.ac.za writes:
>Paul McIntosh aka Paul M Mweene writes:
>> 
>> 
>> I have received much email cautioning me to go easy. Some one pointed out that
...
>> 
>> makala
>
>You know Paul, a funny thing happened yesterday. I received e-mail from
>somebody I know at Pittsburgh (correspondence about academic work). Anyway, as
>an after-thought (since you are never foremost in my mind) I enquired about
>you. Now, this fellow doesn't ever read s.c.a., and so he had understandably
>never heard of you. However, he did consent to undertake a little P.I. work
>for me. The amazing result of this was that your e-mail number isn't that of a
>black person, but of a WHITE undergraduate student by the name of Paul
>McIntosh!!!
>
>Thus I can only conclude that you are some pimply white computer science
>student who for a laugh is prepared to unleash his adolescent sense of humour
>upon the Netnews community, without any feelings for the black Americans whose
>whose names you are dragging through the mud. Do you really gain so much
>pleasure out of being silly and enraging news readers with faked postings? 
>Don't you have any work to do?
>
>Hardy
>
Great stuff Hardy!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Caught him with his
pants down. Three cheers for ya mate!

Nicholas
From: pmmst8+@pitt.edu (Paul M Mweene)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.african
Subject: Re: GAY AFRICANS AGAIN PAUL
Date: 18 Nov 92 04:22:46 GMT
Organization: University of Pittsburgh

In article <1992Nov17.071716.452@shannon.ee.wits.ac.za> philip@concave.cs.wits.ac.za (Philip Machanick) writes:
>>I did not need to sample any one to know that theories about
>homosexuality in
>>Zaire were pure illusions. I have sampled enough Africans im my life.
>Choose you words more carefully when dealing with such a sensitive
>subject.
>Philip Machanick

The subject is sensitive only to the extent that Africans consider the practise
abhorrent and anathema. Fear not, as I have totally no desire to have men as
nything other friends, which incidentally in the only way of relating to men
known and acceptable to me.

As for the question of sampling Africans, I meant that I have discussed any and
all issues with enough of them. And more than that I have grown up among them
and consequently consider me to know us inside out.

makala
From: fearick@physci.uct.ac.za (Roger Fearick)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.african
Subject: Re: Of Desparation and Paranoia
Date: 19 Nov 92 11:28:09 GMT
Article-I.D.: physci.fearick.75.0
Organization: Physics Department, University of Cape Town

In article <9763@blue.cis.pitt.edu.UUCP> pmmst8+@pitt.edu (Paul M Mweene) writes:

>Now will you allow black students at UCT, WIT and other instutions to
>post on the net? I fyou don't then you are worse than the three legged
>one eyeed cannibal from Venus.

Makala, whether you believe it or not, nothing is preventing black students 
from posting to the net.
At the same time, nobody can force students to post to the net.

Who does post to the net and why do they ? This is an issue for the 
sociologists. But of perhaps 15000 potential posters at UCT there are five 
or so who post regularly to s.c.a. The rest, I suspect, look at the 
bullshit that is posted here and do something else.

Of course, when a black student does post to s.c.a, how will you tell that 
it's not Gavan under an alias?  


Roger Fearick                 *  Internet: fearick@physci.uct.ac.za
Dept. of Physics              *
University of Cape Town       *
From: llk@kepler.unh.edu (Local Genius)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.african
Subject: Re: Testing 123 Makala
Date: 15 Nov 1992 01:15:58 GMT
Organization: Department of Mathematics
NNTP-Posting-Host: kepler.unh.edu

In article <1992Nov14.125117.29142@eng.cam.ac.uk> afv@uk.ac.cam.eng writes:
>
>Net om te sien of ek by Makala se terrein kan uitkom voordat ek met hom
>begin kuier.
>
>
>Mgangan
...and boom! boom! to you too!
Wabila pachande msana ukuwoneka...

--
lk(with the man in the yellow hat)