From: gpalo@digi.lonestar.org (Gerry Palo)
Newsgroups: talk.religion.misc,alt.atheism
Subject: Re: Heaven/Hell (was: Re: Perfect Love)
Date: 15 Dec 92 16:33:56 GMT
Distribution: world,public
Organization: DSC Communications Corp, Plano, TX

In article <1992Dec14.163915.7710@engage.pko.dec.com> pub@riscee.pko.dec.com (Publius) writes:
>In article <1992Dec12.215420.29371@nmsu.edu> sdoe@nmsu.edu (Stephen Doe) writes:
>>
>> ... [quotes from Matthew deleted]
>
>First of all, these quotes you brought up by themselves have little
>relevance in the question we are debating, concerning whether the
>'lake of fire' mentioned in the Bible means the literal
>'torture chamber' (as held by the medieval scholastic dogmatism,
>examplified by Thomas Aquinas in his Summa Theologica) or that
>the 'lake of fire' is a Biblical metaphore for the state of
>separation from God (as held by the true Calvinism - as stated by
>John Calvin in his Institutes of the Christian Religion.)
>I have shown in another thread ("Afterlife theology in Judaism
>and Christianity") that Calvin's interpretation, that the
>'lake of fire' is a Biblical metaphore for the state of separation
>from God, has the backing of the Scripture.  You may want to read the
>discussions in that thread.
>
>To be more specific, I would say that these quotes from Matthew
>are concerning God's discipline on the believers.  If you read
>through these verses carefully, you will find that they are addressed
>to the believers.  They are not about the "hell" in the modern sense.
>Nowhere in these verses does it mention that the said discipline will
>last forever.  Oh, Matt. 25:41 does mention 'eternal fire' (literally,
>'fire of the ages').  But 'eternal' modifies the word 'fire', NOT the
>duration of the discipline.  By the way, the word 'hell' never appear
>in the original Greek in any of the verses you quoted.  The word used
>was 'Gehennah', which has its specific meaning as used in those days
>(check with Kittel's Theological Dictionary of the New Testament.)
>
>
>Regards,
>-- 
>For Christ and His Kingdom
>-- Publius
>Disclaimer: These opinions are mine, all mine, mine alone.

Fire is too often associated with its destructive properties.  Fire also
has the quality of a purifier.  To go through the fire, to be tested by
the fire, to rise up phoenix-like from the ashes of the fire, these are
images that belong as properly to fire as the fact that it hurts.

The sacrificial fire was known throughout the world in ancient times, as
was the "eternal flame" of the family altars.

The New Testament says almost nothing about what happens between death and
the last judgement.  One glimpse is provided into the time immediately after
death, in the story of Lazarus and the Rich man.  The rich man is in the
fire, and longs to but may not cross over, or even receive a drop of water.
This is a picture of a purifying fire that the soul goes through in the
time following death.  The Hindus refer to "kama loca", or the place of burning
desire.  Catholicism refers to it as purgatory.  The process there is a
cleansing, a refining, just as you refine metal by burning away the dross
in the fire.

As for the lake of fire in the Apocalypse, into which Satan and his followers
will be cast, a curtain is drawn on the final outcome of that conflagration,
as if to say -- that is a story for another time.  But these characteristics
of fire should be borne in mind when working wiht these images.  Even
the image of the Gehenna, a dump where garbage was burned, is an effective
picture of it.  I think it is Dante who describes the souls in purgatory
as eagerly and enthusiastically going through all their sufferings and
trials, for they go into it knowing that this is necessary for them to
recover their true being, which they have abused and abandoned while on earth.
The judgement is not from an outside judge, but rather issues from themselves.

As for Hades, or Sheol, the place of the dead, this was seen as a dark and
gloomy place.  As it says in one of the Greek dramas, "Better a beggar on
earth than a king in the land of the shades."  The liberation of the souls
there, who had "buried their eternal being for the sake of their temporal", 
which more and more meant everyone who died, was the most important first 
deed of Christ after he overcame death himself.  Indeed, the phrase, "the
people who lived in darkness have seen a great light" applies in a vivid
way to what the experience of those dwelling in hades must have experienced.

Greetings of the season.

Gerry Palo (73237.2006@compuserve.com)
Newsgroups: talk.religion.misc