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Date:         Thu, 17 Dec 1992 10:20:48 -0400
Reply-To:     Jeremy Whitlock <WHITLOCK@SSCVAX.CIS.MCMASTER.CA>
From:         Jeremy Whitlock <WHITLOCK@SSCVAX.CIS.MCMASTER.CA>
Subject:      Re: Ozone Layer

In response to requests, private and posted, for more info. on volcanic
sources of ozone-depleting gases, here is a table from _21st Century_, Fall
1991:

-------------------------------
SOURCE OF ATMOSPHERIC CHLORINE (millions of tons)

Seawater                600
Volcanoes               36
Biomass Burning         8.4
Ocean Biota             5

TOTAL NATURAL
SOURCES:                649.4

Total Cl in CFC's       .75

Total Cl allegedly
released by breakup
of CFC's                .0075

--------------------------------

It must be remembered that this is the atmospheric source, not what gets to
the stratosphere.  Much of the Cl from sea water, for example, is rained
out.  Volcanoes, however, inject their gases directly to the stratosphere.

Jeremy.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Jeremy Whitlock                        e-mail:  WHITLOCK@MCMASTER.CA
Dept. of Engineering Physics
McMaster University                    phone: (416) 525-9140 ext.7140
Hamilton, Ont.
CANADA   L8S 4L8
                   "My thoughts are mine, not Mac's"
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
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Date:         Wed, 16 Dec 1992 09:21:03 -0700
Reply-To:     Richard B Freeman <jeanbob@SELWAY.UMT.EDU>
From:         Richard B Freeman <jeanbob@SELWAY.UMT.EDU>
Subject:      Re: Ozone meditation healing plan

On Tue, 15 Dec 1992, Rumen with a View wrote:

> Education/awareness is one thing, but meditative healing ?
>
> If we are such a relatively insignificant (not unimportant) piece of this
 place
> we call earth, what makes folks think they can meditate the problem away ?
> This is pretty omnipotent thinking.  You can't have it both ways.

I agree.  This type of strategy (and it is a strategy) seems to be typical
of time-consuming distractions from necessary political action.

I think an analogy is apparent in the works of a  greek
writer, who, in _The Book of Paul_ (sub-book of the _Bible_), recommended that
everybody stay put, obey their church and state, obey their masters
(slaves and women), etc, until the eschaton.  And, many took this author's
advice.  Well, this advice sounds a bit suspicious to me.

I think we can sit around and meditate until we're blue in the face, while
the industrial interests who profit by manufacturing CFCs and their family
of compounds...and the appliances and equipment that use them...continue
to profit off the destruction of the ozone layer.  (This argument applies
to other technologies and their corporate member profiteers.)

And, they'll thank us for sitting around and doing so.

Rick Freeman
Missoula, MT
jeanbob@selway.umt.edu
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Date:         Fri, 11 Dec 1992 10:21:30 PST
Reply-To:     Bill Arnett <USERARNT@UBCMTSA.BITNET>
From:         Bill Arnett <USERARNT@UBCMTSA.BITNET>
Subject:      re: No free bags at ALDI Foods

> I'd like to know if this kind of up-front educational pricing is
> turning up elsewhere.  And correct me if I've been unfairly dour
> about ALDI.                     -- tracy    ?loganT @ LAFAYETT?

We have three different "warehouse" supermarket chains here.  At least
one of them (Save-on-Foods, I think) has been charging 4 or 5 cents
per bag for years.  The others give you a 4 or 5 cent discount when
you bring the bags back.

Cheers.  Bill.
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Date:         Sun, 13 Dec 1992 14:54:00 MET
Reply-To:     Jeroen Hendriks <SBU5JH@RULSFB.LEIDENUNIV.NL>
From:         Jeroen Hendriks <SBU5JH@RULSFB.LEIDENUNIV.NL>
Subject:      Re: No free bags at ALDI foods

The ALDI policy is common in Holland, and as far as my holiday experiences go,
in the rest of Europe. Actually I like supermarkets better where you can choose
to buy a paper bag, or none at all. BTW, a lot of people here in Holland don't
even use bags, as most supermarkets also provide empty carton boxes to
transport the shoppings in.

As for the bread: ALDI sells pre-fab bread, and I think it barely edible. But
the thing I like most about ALDI is the wine they sell. It's really good wine,
for incredibly low prices. I wonder how they do it.

*******************************************************************************
* Jeroen Hendriks            Department of Biology - Rijksuniversiteit Leiden *
* Vestwal 1                                                       PO-box 9516 *
* 2312 NP Leiden                                               2300 RA Leiden *
* 071-217520                                                       071-275190 *
* Holland                                                             Holland *
*                         SBU5JH@RULSFB.LeidenUniv.NL                         *
*******************************************************************************
From: davep@ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU (Dave Phillips)
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.biosph-l
Subject: unsubbing from this list
Date: 18 Dec 92 15:48:33 GMT
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To clarify matters, I do NOT unsub any list subscriber unless they have
attempted to do it themselves and are clearly unable to get it right. I
am not an employee of a computer center but a graduate student volunteering
to deal with dozens of garbage messages (mail rejections, sub/unsub notices,
echo'ed rejects for up to 13 days prior from some sites). So please read
up on listserv and do it yourselves; this is proper net etiquette.
 The correct net address to unsub yourself from this list is
   listserv@ubvm  (on bitnet), or listserv@ubvm.cc.buffalo.edu (on internet).
All your message has to say is
   unsub biosph-l
or
  signoff biosph-l


- dave phillips, biosph-l list owner
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Date:         Wed, 16 Dec 1992 10:09:34 -0700
Reply-To:     Richard B Freeman <jeanbob@SELWAY.UMT.EDU>
From:         Richard B Freeman <jeanbob@SELWAY.UMT.EDU>
Subject:      Re: Ozone Layer Healing Plan

On Tue, 15 Dec 1992, Jeremy Whitlock wrote:

> Well, meditative healing of the ozone layer makes perfect sense, seeing
> how meditative destruction is the "cause" of the ozone hole in the first
> place.  When enough people focus on the idea that mankind has caused
> thinning of the ozone layer, this magically becomes fact -- regardless of
> the evidence that orders of magnitude higher amounts of so-called
> "ozone-depleting" gases are released by a single volcano.

Jeremy, I think this language is a bit loose and vague.  What do you mean
by "cause" and what do you mean by "meditative destruction."

This discussion...on ozone recovery, etc., seems to have the character of
problem solving.  If so, then we should establish some agreement (at least
on some level) on methodology.  Such agreement will of course be based
upon some social...political agreement.....  But, whatever the base, I
think we should know what we mean when we discuss the problem (and the
problematic...a term for the intellectual aspects of a problem).

Rick Freeman
Missoula, MT
jeanbob@selway.umt.edu
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Date:         Fri, 18 Dec 1992 09:58:39 PST
Reply-To:     Melcir Erskine-Richmond <globalcp@CUE.BC.CA>
From:         Melcir Erskine-Richmond <globalcp@CUE.BC.CA>
Subject:      OZONE-THINNING/POLAR-L info

I have just subscribed to this list, but there is little on the
descriptor to give any idea if there has been much discussion of
the Ozone Thinning/Global Warming-Greenhouse effect/Food-Chain
disruptions ...

Best,
Melcir Erskine-Richmond
globalcp@cue.bc.ca

>
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> CZRP@MUSICA.MCGILL.CA               bruce forbes
> BOTARI@NET2.EOS.UOGUELPH.CA         Johanna L. Botari
> RICHARD@NEXT1.ACS.UMN.EDU           R. Gale
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> RPALUCH@SBU.EDU                     rocky paluch
> RORPAYNE@THINK2.LAKEHEADU.CA        Bob Payne
> LSEALE@UALTAVM                      Linda Seale
> RMINION@UALTAVM                     robin minion
> knzn%marist.bitnet@UTCS.UTORONTO.CA Connie Kustas
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Date:         Thu, 17 Dec 1992 15:13:36 -0700
Reply-To:     "Tony C. Tweedale" <es__act@SELWAY.UMT.EDU>
From:         "Tony C. Tweedale" <es__act@SELWAY.UMT.EDU>
Subject:      Re: Ozone Layer

On Thu, 17 Dec 1992, Jeremy Whitlock wrote:

> In response to requests, private and posted, for more info. on volcanic
> sources of ozone-depleting gases, here is a table from _21st Century_, Fall
> 1991:
>
> -------------------------------
> SOURCE OF ATMOSPHERIC CHLORINE (millions of tons)
>
> Seawater                600
> Volcanoes               36
> Biomass Burning         8.4
> Ocean Biota             5
>
> TOTAL NATURAL
> SOURCES:                649.4
>
> Total Cl in CFC's       .75
>
> Total Cl allegedly
> released by breakup
> of CFC's                .0075
>
> --------------------------------
>
> It must be remembered that this is the atmospheric source, not what gets to
> the stratosphere.  Much of the Cl from sea water, for example, is rained
> out.  Volcanoes, however, inject their gases directly to the stratosphere.
>
> Jeremy.
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Jeremy Whitlock                        e-mail:  WHITLOCK@MCMASTER.CA
> Dept. of Engineering Physics
> McMaster University                    phone: (416) 525-9140 ext.7140
> Hamilton, Ont.
> CANADA   L8S 4L8
>                    "My thoughts are mine, not Mac's"
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------------

i wonder if that much chlorine from volcanos makes it to the ozone layer
why we still have one?

cfc's are fairly unique in their stability to photodegradation (they're so
generally stable that they were prefered to ammonia refrigerant as being
nontoxic, just pass right through you). because of their stability though,
they remain intact until they reach heights where there's sufficient high
energy u.v. that the chlorine is broken off and reacts with ozone (which
exists at that altitude due to the same u.v energy breaking apart O2
molecules).
From: marty@EQUINOX.UNR.EDU (John Martinson)
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.biosph-l
Subject: Re: --Curacao Windfarm Sparks Debate
Date: 15 Dec 92 16:57:57 GMT
Reply-To: John Martinson <marty@EQUINOX.UNR.EDU>
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU
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I'm curious about the practice of using the term "wind turbine" in
describing what I would call wind mills as in the recent Curacao piece.
To me a turbine is a device which encloses a set of fins (radially
arranged) which are then typically set in motion of hot gases. Steam turbines
in power stations or turbo aircraft engines would be the classical examples.
The distinction between older aircraft propeller engines and modern
turbos seems sufficiently illustrative. If the word "turbine" is used
when referring to conventional "propellor" wind MILLS, then what term
should be used for describing true wind turbines, i.e., fins enclosed
in a housing through which wind passes. These are not widely known
devices, however, they have been built (and are probably inadequately
researched) but I don't see what is gained in calling a WINDMILL a
WIND TURBINE.    John Martinson  Univ of Nevada, Reno
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Mailer: Elm [revision: 70.30]
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.biosph-l
Date:         Fri, 18 Dec 1992 10:10:50 MET
Reply-To:     Ivo Bouwmans <ivo@DUTW239.TUDELFT.NL>
From:         Ivo Bouwmans <ivo@DUTW239.TUDELFT.NL>
Subject:      Heavy metals in atmosphere

For a project concerning the effects of waste incineration we
would like to know the residence time distribution (or just the
average residence time) in the atmosphere of heavy metals that
are emitted from chimneys.

Does anyone have data or references? Thanks in advance.
--
Met vriendelijke groeten, - Yours sincerely, - Afablajn salutojn,

Ivo Bouwmans      ivo@dutw239.tudelft.nl      tel +31(0)15-787239
    Interduct --  Delft University Clean Technology Institute
       Rotterdamseweg 145, 2628 AL Delft,  The Netherlands
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Date:         Tue, 15 Dec 1992 16:54:38 -0400
Reply-To:     Jeremy Whitlock <WHITLOCK@SSCVAX.CIS.MCMASTER.CA>
From:         Jeremy Whitlock <WHITLOCK@SSCVAX.CIS.MCMASTER.CA>
Subject:      Re: Ozone Layer Healing Plan

Well, meditative healing of the ozone layer makes perfect sense, seeing
how meditative destruction is the "cause" of the ozone hole in the first
place.  When enough people focus on the idea that mankind has caused
thinning of the ozone layer, this magically becomes fact -- regardless of
the evidence that orders of magnitude higher amounts of so-called
"ozone-depleting" gases are released by a single volcano.

Jeremy.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Jeremy Whitlock                        e-mail:  WHITLOCK@MCMASTER.CA
Dept. of Engineering Physics
McMaster University                    phone: (416) 525-9140 ext.7140
Hamilton, Ont.
CANADA   L8S 4L8
                   "My thoughts are mine, not Mac's"
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
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Newsgroups: bit.listserv.biosph-l
Date:         Wed, 16 Dec 1992 09:49:44 -0700
Reply-To:     Richard B Freeman <jeanbob@SELWAY.UMT.EDU>
From:         Richard B Freeman <jeanbob@SELWAY.UMT.EDU>
Subject:      Re: Ozone Layer Healing Plan

RE
> Don't expect the stars to patch up the consequences of our stupidity and
> cupidity. They once watched the extinction of the dinosaurs, and shone
> not a bit less brightly afterwards.

We are the dinosaurs.

Alan's got a point.  However, I prefer to take it a bit further than
finger shaking at individuals.  The problems are institutional...in the
political, phenomenological, and social sense.  The solutions are
likewise.  Institutions limit our choices, and it is to these that we
should focus our political attention.

Anyway, forget the whitely clad opportunists.  Easy...intellectually
seductive and simple...solutions won't help us out of this jam.  The
congruence of knowledge and action is our hope.  As Alan pointed out, the
social got us into this jam, and only the social will get us out.  Relive
the Praxis.  Don't wait from ivory towers and deceptively
Green-Condo-platitudes and cultural, political safety.

From the Great Refusal.

Rick Freeman
Missoula, MT
jeanbob@selway.umt.edu
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.biosph-l
Date:         Mon, 14 Dec 1992 17:12:55 +0100
Reply-To:     Eric Tholome <tholome@BERN.ESF.DE>
From:         Eric Tholome <tholome@BERN.ESF.DE>
Subject:      Re: No free bags at ALDI Foods

TRACY LOGAN <LOGANT@LAFAYETT.BITNET> wrote:
>I'd like to know if this kind of up-front educational pricing is
>turning up elsewhere

I've been living in Germany for the past year and it seems that this is the
general policy here in Germany. All (almost all actually) supermarkets and
other similar shops will make you pay for plastic bags (around 30 pf = 20
cents).

It takes quite some time to get used to bring back your old bags, but in the
end, I like the idea very much.

                                                Eric

_____________________________________________________________________________
Eric Tholome       ESF Headquarters             internet: tholome@esf.de
                   Hohenzollerndamm 152         UUCP:     tholome@esf.uucp
                   D-1000 Berlin 33             Ph.:      +49 30 82 09 03 25
                               Germany          Fax:      +49 30 82 09 03 19
From: J_NEIDHART@UNHH.UNH.EDU
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.biosph-l
Subject: (no subject given)
Date: 16 Dec 92 13:08:59 GMT
Reply-To: J_NEIDHART@UNHH.UNH.EDU
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU
X-Vmsmail-To: SMTP%"BIOSPH-L@UBVM.cc.buffalo.edu"

SUBCRIBE  BIOSPH-L  Jim Neidhart

Thank You,  Merry Christmas!
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.biosph-l
Date:         Tue, 15 Dec 1992 12:39:57 MST
Reply-To:     GBIMULLE@IDBSU.IDBSU.EDU
From:         GBIMULLE@IDBSU.IDBSU.EDU

Please remove the following name from the list:
gbimulle@idbsu.bitnet
Thanks RBM
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Newsgroups: bit.listserv.biosph-l
Date:         Thu, 17 Dec 1992 11:25:36 -0500
Reply-To:     "Chris, HMP, x. 2-4965" <C_HANLON@UNHH.UNH.EDU>
From:         "Chris, HMP, x. 2-4965" <C_HANLON@UNHH.UNH.EDU>
Subject:      Cleaning companies & environment

Hi again-

I am looking for resources that discuss cleaning products their companies, and
the environment.  I would like to support companies that not only produce
environmentally safe products, but that also produce them in ways that are safe
for the environment.

Sorry for the repeat--it was suggested that I include a subject heading.

Again, any suggestions appreciated!
Christopher Hanlon
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Mailer: Elm [revision: 66.25]
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.biosph-l
Date:         Tue, 15 Dec 1992 10:25:49 PST
Reply-To:     Alan McGowen <alanm@HPINDBU.CUP.HP.COM>
From:         Alan McGowen <alanm@HPINDBU.CUP.HP.COM>
Subject:      Re: Ozone Layer Healing Plan
              Erskine-Richmond" at Dec 14, 92 2:19 pm

>
> Subject: Ozone-Healing Program
>        : Ozone Depletion/ Healing Action Research Tests
>
> [...]
>   CALL FOR COLLECTIVE ACTION BY GLOBAL HUMANITY TOWARDS A SOLUTION:
>     OZONE-HEALING MEDITATION "AROUND-THE-CLOCK/AROUND-THE-WORLD":
>
> The optimum dates for meditative action appear to be during the upcoming
> three Uranus/ Neptune planetary conjunctions in 1993.  The first of these
> conjunctions will occur on February 2nd.
>
> The particular electro-magnetic fields generated by the shifting focus
> between these transiting bodies will, I believe, significantly assist
> our earth-situated energies to close the fields of the ozone-envelope.
>
> In the pre-conjunction warm-up period, we should fine-tune our media-and-
> corporate-and-organization-links, to help prepare for this unique
> opportunity to participate in a 'global-media super-event' -- a 'round-
> the-world' 24-hour planetary data-sharing and world-peoples' meditation.
> Its purpose? - to actively generate upper-atmosphere electro-magnetic
> energies to help heal the ozone-layer.
>

If the best response we can come up with to ozone depletion is astrological
prayer, the human race might as well pack it in right now, and quietly await
an overdue extinction.

While the meditations go on and the horoscopes are being cast the ozone
depeleting substances are still being introduced into the atmosphere by
consumer products and industrial processes. If you really want to wake up
human consciousness about this, stage a media event to make people aware
of how *they* contribute to making the hole with the products they buy and
use. Our behavior created the problem, and only a change in our behavior
-- specifically, in  the behaviors that put the substances in the air --
can end it.

Don't expect the stars to patch up the consequences of our stupidity and
cupidity. They once watched the extinction of the dinosaurs, and shone
not a bit less brightly afterwards.

Alan McGowen