HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: gribskov@sdsc.edu (Michael Gribskov)
Newsgroups: ca.earthquakes
Subject: Re: Power LInes
Date: 20 Aug 1992 16:21:44 GMT
Organization: San Diego Supercomputer Center @UCSD.
Distribution: world
Reply-To: gribskov@sdsc.edu
NNTP-Posting-Host: sluggo.sdsc.edu

I'm certainly a non-expert, but I recall reading of several incidents where people
were killed by walking on the ground in the vicinity of downed power lines, with no contact with the power line itself.  Apparently the voltage drop is such that you may have enough potential difference between your left and right feet that substantial
current will flow through your body.  Personally, I vote to stay in the car if possible
until given the all clear.
Newsgroups: ca.earthquakes
From: karish@pangea.Stanford.EDU (Chuck Karish)
Subject: Re: Questions raised by SoCal Activity
Keywords: usgs refs, landers
Organization: Mindcraft, Inc.
Date: Thu, 20 Aug 1992 18:37:10 GMT

In article <1992Aug20.065133.16155@nas.nasa.gov> eugene@wilbur.nas.nasa.gov
(Eugene N. Miya) writes:
>Actually Harbaugh is just another K/H series.
>At home now, It's the "Roadside Geology of XXX" series by Mountain Press
>Publishing.  One would want RG of Northern CA, which I don't have.
>Harbaugh is a good book, but you want Sharp's trip up 395 to see
>things like the 1872 scarp outside Lone Pine (Richard knows this) so this
>is rhetorical.

Another recommended guide, with a focus more on volcanism
than on tectonics, is the one for the 1976 (I think) UCLA
Earth Sciences departmental trip to the Long Valley/Mono
Lake area.  This covers the region roughly from Bishop
to Lee vining, and shows how to go see some rocks that
illustrate some truly mind-boggling geologic processes.
You can stand among rocks that were involved in an eruption
an order of magnitude bigger than Krakatoa, and various
exposures tell the story really well.
--

    Chuck Karish          karish@mindcraft.com
    (415) 323-9000 x117   karish@forel.stanford.edu
From: art@acc.com (Art Berggreen)
Newsgroups: ca.earthquakes
Subject: California Geology Magazine
Date: 21 Aug 92 00:11:43 GMT
Organization: ACC, Advanced Computer Communications

They've been behind getting issues out, but I'll still make a plug for
California Geology Magazine.  This is published bi-monthly by the
Calif. Division of Mines and Geology.  What I've gotten so far has
been very readable by an interested non-professional.  The Mar/Apr
issue had good articles on the recent Northern Calif. quakes.

Subscriptions are $8.00/yr (6 issues), $15.50 for 2 yrs or $23.00 for
3 yrs.

	Division of Mines and Geology
	P.O. Box 2980
	Sacramento, CA  95812-2980
	(916) 445-5716

Art
From: lockhart@mothra.nts.uci.edu (Jack C. Lockhart)
Subject: Re: Earthquake Kits: auto contents?
Newsgroups: ca.earthquakes
Organization: University of California, Irvine
Distribution: usa
Date: 16 Aug 92 02:11:57 GMT
Followup-To: ca.earthquakes

In article <7703@public.BTR.COM> rah@btr.BTR.COM (Richard A Hyde  rah@btr.com) writes:
>In article <19431@fritz.filenet.com> bieber@fritz.filenet.com (Douglas Bieber) writes:
>|
>|  o water - I pack 2 gallons of over-the-counter water; what effect will
>|	the heat have on the shelf-life of the water?  How long is a normal
>|	bottled water shelf-life?
>
>
>Doug,
>
>Some months back, another netter posted that he had some stored water (in
>2 liter soda bottles with bleach) that was two years old and still looked
>and tasted fine.  He complained about a slight cola taste because the
>bottles had been insufficiently washed  :-)  The cannonical replacement
>time is every six months...
>
>I would expect commercially bottled and sealed water to be good indefinitely
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^


The shelf life of commercially (bottled) water is approximately 6
months because this water does not contain chemicals (chlorine
especially) that stop the growth of bacteria and other nasty little
critters that like to grow in water.  My advice is to rotate
commercially bottled water every 6 months of so.  

Commercially bottled water stored in an environment that is subject to
high temperatures has a shelf life SHORTER than 6 months.

The usual disclaimer applies here.  Your mileage may vary.

>but, you wight want to check it for visible contamination periodically.
>
>Water can also be purchased in foil pouches.  I prefer the bottles myself
>but the pouches look like they have a better sealing mechanism.
>
>Rick
>-- 
>------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>|   Richard Hyde  |  RaH@btr.com  |    This space intentionally left blank   |
>------------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: lstowell@pyrnova.mis.pyramid.com (Lon Stowell)
Newsgroups: ca.earthquakes
Subject: Re: Personal Tales of Big Earthquakes
Date: 18 Aug 92 22:17:22 GMT
Reply-To: lstowell@pyrnova.pyramid.com (Lon Stowell)
Distribution: ca
Organization: Pyramid Technology Corp., Mountain View, CA
Originator: daemon@sword.eng.pyramid.com

In article <2A9044F4.17B1@deneva.sdd.trw.com> shla@spf.trw.com (Sheila Wallace) writes:
>So the Bay Area media does this too?  I'm tired of turning on the local
>news and hearing about 'another 3.5 aftershock hit Big Bear today...'
>They all know by now that there will be thousands of aftershocks this 
>size.  One of the stations now has a 'SeismoCam' -- a dedicated
>video camera glued to a seismograph ready to catch the smallest
>wiggle of the needle.  It's nice to be informed, but this is a bit much.
>
    Ya ever get the feeling some TV stations could trivialize
    creation or judgement day?
From: lstowell@pyrnova.mis.pyramid.com (Lon Stowell)
Newsgroups: ca.earthquakes
Subject: Re: Nostradamus & Earthquake Prediction
Date: 13 Aug 92 18:05:48 GMT
Reply-To: lstowell@pyrnova.pyramid.com (Lon Stowell)
Distribution: ca
Organization: Pyramid Technology Corp., Mountain View, CA
Originator: daemon@sword.eng.pyramid.com

In article <22194@venera.isi.edu> tar@isi.edu writes:
>
>"From the WASHINGTON TIMES: 'Four large people tried to make
>16th-century astrologer Nostradamus's [sic] prediction of an
>earthquake this month come true, courtesy of a Phoenix radio station.

   They should've studied Nicola Tesla's papers.  He succeeded in
   creating a few artificial earthquakes in lower Manhattan by
   smiting the ground (with a piling hammer) at it's resonant
   frequency.
From: judson@watnxt2.ucr.edu (Michael Judson)
Newsgroups: ca.earthquakes
Subject: Earthquake info
Date: 18 Aug 92 20:05:16 GMT

Is there an ftp site, or login site which will give immediate info on
an earthquake?  For example, does Caltech immediately post earthquake
info somewhere?  Or can you get an immediate readout, or gif of the
seismograph of an earthquake that just occurred?

--
"I drank what?" -- Socrates

judson@watserv.ucr.edu
From: ESR@SLACVM.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU (Ed Russell)
Newsgroups: ca.earthquakes
Subject: earthquake insurance discussion
Date: 23 Aug 92 04:37:53 GMT
Organization: Stanford Linear Accelerator Center

Sometime in the last few days I remember seeing a few posts about this
new state earthquake insurance fund.  I postponed reading them at the
time and now I can't find what newsgroup they were posted in.  Can
anyone tell me the newsgroup where that stuff is/was posted?
From: winter@Apple.COM (Patty Winter)
Newsgroups: ca.earthquakes
Subject: Re: Running out of the building
Date: 18 Aug 92 06:31:53 GMT
Distribution: ca
Organization: Apple Computer Inc., Cupertino, CA

In article <Bt5nLL.GJv@well.sf.ca.us> casey@well.sf.ca.us (Kathleen Creighton) writes:
>
>Wouldn't it make more sense to tell people to have a sense of their
>surroundings ... and to proceed only if they perceive those
>surroundings to be safe?  Running out to the middle of a parking lot in
>most cases doesn't strike me as a bad idea, but you wouldn't want to be
>standing within reach of a stanchion, right?  Or power lines.  Or, as in
>the case of downtown San Francisco, on the sidewalk under those buildings,
>especially the older ones. 

Nor would you want to be within ten or twenty feet of all the *newer*
buildings that have windows designed to fall *outwards* during a quake.
Which means, if the only thing between two buildings is a  normal-width
street, there's no safe spot. 


Patty
-- 

    :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::
    ::   Patty Winter N6BIS	       Internet: winter@apple.com  ::	     
    ::   Sunnyvale, California	       AMPRNet: 44.4.0.44          ::
    :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::
Newsgroups: ca.earthquakes
From: eugene@wilbur.nas.nasa.gov (Eugene N. Miya)
Subject: Re: Shaking Buildings w/o Earthquakes
Organization: NAS, NASA Ames Research Center, Moffett Field, CA
Date: Thu, 20 Aug 92 00:43:40 GMT
Distribution: ca

UC Berkeley did some earthquake engineering structural shaking tests
on a remaining section of freeway over pass in SF before tearing it down.

UC Berkeley should be contacted.  Local news footage could be obtained
from KGO.

--eugene miya, NASA Ames Research Center, eugene@orville.nas.nasa.gov
  Resident Cynic, Rock of Ages Home for Retired Hackers
  {uunet,mailrus,other gateways}!ames!eugene
Second Favorite email message: Returned mail: Cannot send message for 3 days
A Ref: Mathematics and Plausible Reasoning, vol. 1, G. Polya
Newsgroups: ca.earthquakes
From: klee@wsl.dec.com (Ken Lee)
Subject: Re: First Aid Courses (was: Shelf life of canned foods)
Reply-To: klee@wsl.dec.com
Organization: DEC Western Software Laboratory
Distribution: ca
Date: Thu, 13 Aug 92 23:54:57 GMT

I agree with the recommendation on first aid courses.  Most first aid
situtations do not require supplies other than bandages.  Additionally, if
you do need unusual supplies, you probably won't be able to administer safe,
useful first aid without some amount of training.  The Red Cross courses are
cheap and reasonably good.

-- 
Ken Lee
DEC Western Software Laboratory, Palo Alto, Calif.
Internet: klee@wsl.dec.com
uucp: uunet!decwrl!klee
From: rhockins@enrico.tmc.edu (Russell Hockins)
Newsgroups: ca.earthquakes
Subject: Re: Earthquake info
Date: 19 Aug 92 19:11:21 GMT
Organization: /etc/organization

In article <6290@ucru2.ucr.edu> judson@watnxt2.ucr.edu (Michael Judson) writes:
>Is there an ftp site, or login site which will give immediate info on
>an earthquake?  For example, does Caltech immediately post earthquake
>info somewhere?  Or can you get an immediate readout, or gif of the
>seismograph of an earthquake that just occurred?
>
If you or your location has Internet access,  try the finger command.
I use "finger quake@geophys.washington.edu" and get a list of the last
10 quakes locally and regionally.  It is not immediate ( as in just after
a quake) but it usually has the information the next day.


-- 
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
| Russell Hockins             |  This civilization is recyclable             |
| Innovative Interfaces, Inc. |                ( well most of it anyway )    |
|                           packet : ka6foy @ ki6yk.#nocal.ca.na.usa         |
From: rah@public.BTR.COM (Richard A Hyde  rah@btr.com)
Newsgroups: ca.earthquakes
Subject: Re: Shelf life of canned foods
Date: 13 Aug 92 02:36:29 GMT
Organization: BTR Public Access UNIX, MtnView CA. Contact: Customer Service cs@BTR.COM

In article <2A893FA0.7777@noiro.acs.uci.edu> klabbers@hepxvt.ps.uci.edu (Pam Klabbers) writes:
|
|My husband and I have about 14 of the MRI's used in the Gulf war by soldiers
|given to us by a friend in the national guard.  They are in such appealing
|combinations as Franks and Beans, but should last and have 3000 calories 
|each, so we could easily survive on one a day.  4 of them are split between

Speaking of shelf life...  those "refrigerationless" convenience foods
such as "Top Shelf" are really fancy MREs in disguise.

Official "Red Cross" first aid books are available from any Red Cross
office.

Rick


-- 
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
|   Richard Hyde  |  RaH@btr.com  |    This space intentionally left blank   |
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: stead@skadi.CSS.GOV (Richard Stead)
Newsgroups: ca.earthquakes
Subject: Re: Shaking Buildings w/o Earthquakes
Date: 20 Aug 92 19:13:56 GMT
Distribution: ca

In article <1992Aug19.164353.15749@elroy.jpl.nasa.gov>, jta@kilroy.Jpl.Nasa.Gov (Jon T. Adams (336)) writes:
> I have heard the legend (or is it reality?  At Cal Tech, you never know) of 
> the widget atop the library building that induced tremendous shaking into
> the building just by hanging a small weight at the end of an arm rotating
> in the horizontal plane, and adjusting the rotation rate until BINGO! the
> resonant frequency of the building was found...

They've shaken Millikan Library a number of ways at its natural period.  The
swinging arm was one way (that was recorded at a seismometer on Mt. Wilson).
They also have the undergrads hit the foundation rhythmically with a big
wooden hammer.  There was talk about having undergrads run back and forth
on the top floor, but I don't think that was ever done.

> Speaking of coupling external energy to the Earth, what about the little
> wiggles on the seismometers when the Shuttle drops back through the atmosphere?
> I have always been led to believe that was due to the atmospheric shock wave
> pushing against large buildings in downtown LA, and those buildings coupling
> that energy to the ground.

Sure, they get that one.  The wiggles aren't little either.  The better
story is they tracked secret flights of experimental aircraft over southern
california by their seismic footprints.  And defense won't confirm or deny, of
course.


--
Richard Stead
Center for Seismic Studies
Arlington, VA
stead@seismo.css.gov
Newsgroups: ca.earthquakes
From: pete@puffin.uucp (Pete Carah)
Subject: Re: Power LInes
Organization: Pete's Unix
Date: Fri, 21 Aug 1992 03:02:47 GMT
Distribution: ca

In article <1992Aug19.190251.23150@netlabs.com> lwall@netlabs.com (Larry Wall) writes:
>In article <51096@seismo.CSS.GOV> stead@skadi.CSS.GOV (Richard Stead) writes:
>: Thus, it is floating well above electrical ground.  You are floating as well.
>
>60 times a second this is untrue, unless you happen to have discovered
>a DC intertie.  You probably haven't.
>
>: If you attempt to leave, even by jumping, the entire current of the cable
>: will follow your body to the ground.
>
>Oh, nonsense.  The main reason to discourage jumping is because Persons
>of Indeterminate Competence will screw it up and touch both the car and
>the ground, or jump into a soggy patch that happens to have a wire
>across it.  The amount of charge your body can store can give you a
>bit of a static shock when you land, but if 4 inches of air is good enough
>between your tire rims and the ground, it's pretty certain that 4 feet
>of air will be good enough between you and the car.

Most people can't jump clear 4 feet nearly level, at least without a run.
Note that the broad-jump for non-athletes (with a run) is only a little more.
230kv will jump almost that far in DRY air; most air isn't (meaning it will
go further).  The LA city dc intertie is higher (about 375kv) to ground from
each wire.  Also the peak voltage of a 230kv line to ground (they are very
common around LA) is 1.4 times 0.866 of that (or about 280kv).  The 500kv
lines are built very well and probably won't come down in a quake, though
I've seen some very impressive pretzel towers after a tornado (in Alabama).
Idea here is 1) the tires aren't insulators for this voltage; 2) it will
follow you further than you can probably jump.

>The idea that the current will follow you implies that you'll create
>and maintain a path of ionized air between you and the car.  I doubt you
>have enough innate capacitance for that without the help of the ground.

Easy if line is above 30-50kv.  Those are quite common, and the air only
has to be a little moist.  (remember that air's field strength of 10kv/inch
(or so) is between guarded flat plates; ANY edge increases the field.)
(like your fingers, feet, corner of car door, etc.)

>Certainly, in the absence of other considerations, you should stay in
>the car.  The car conducts electricity much better than you do.  Let it.

Don't try to jump unless you KNOW that it isn't a really high voltage
line, and not even then if there is ANY water on the road surface.
(even 28v can be fatal in very wet conditions; 110v certainly can, and
then it doesn't have to be very wet).

Basic advice is DON'T LEAVE the car.  BTW - one of the previous posts
mentioned a corvette accident; the Corvette and the Fiero are exceptions
to the conductive-body rule, though I think that they both have metal
frame members above the occupants.  I hope both have fire-retardants in
the resins, though.

-- Pete
From: shaw@s119.es.llnl.gov (Henry Shaw 510 423-4645)
Newsgroups: ca.earthquakes
Subject: Re: Shaking Buildings w/o Earthquakes
Date: 19 Aug 92 18:27:58 GMT
Distribution: ca
Organization: Earth_Sciences_Dept.,_LLNL

In article <1992Aug19.164353.15749@elroy.jpl.nasa.gov>, jta@kilroy.Jpl.Nasa.Gov (Jon T. Adams (336)) writes:
|> 
|> 
|> I have heard the legend (or is it reality?  At Cal Tech, you never know) of 
|> the widget atop the library building that induced tremendous shaking into
|> the building just by hanging a small weight at the end of an arm rotating
|> in the horizontal plane, and adjusting the rotation rate until BINGO! the
|> resonant frequency of the building was found...
|> 
'tis not a legend.  This was a lab experiment done routinely as part of one of Prof. Paul Jennings` 
engineering courses at Caltech.  

-- 
Henry Shaw, Earth Sciences Dept., LLNL |    All opinions are my own.
Internet: shaw4@llnl.gov               |  
CIS: 76347,2523                        |
Fidonet: Henry Shaw at 1:161/55        |
Newsgroups: ca.earthquakes
From: stgprao@xing.unocal.com (Richard Ottolini)
Subject: Re: Personal Tales of Big Earthquakes
Originator: stgprao@xing
Organization: Unocal Corporation
Distribution: ca
Date: Tue, 18 Aug 1992 23:00:52 GMT

Loma Prieta quake at 4th floor Stanford Math Library.  
All the books fell into waist-deep piles between the rows of shelves. 
I don't know if they found anyone under the books :-)

A wall of bookshelves crashed onto the desk of the Stanford geophysics dept
head.  It might of killed him if he hadn't jumped under the desk.
Same person who predicted the Landers fault is active.

Separated the five racks of the Stanford geophysics supercomputer and tossed
across the room.  The maintenance person came by the next day, pushed them
back together and the machine powered up OK without further trouble.

Even geophysicists make mistakes.
Newsgroups: ca.earthquakes
From: eugene@wilbur.nas.nasa.gov (Eugene N. Miya)
Subject: Re: First Aid Courses
Organization: NAS, NASA Ames Research Center, Moffett Field, CA
Date: Fri, 14 Aug 92 23:54:03 GMT
Distribution: ca

In article <1992Aug13.235457.20553@PA.dec.com> klee@wsl.dec.com writes:
>I agree with the recommendation on first aid courses.  Most first aid
>situtations do not require supplies other than bandages.  Additionally, if
>you do need unusual supplies, you probably won't be able to administer safe,
>useful first aid without some amount of training.  The Red Cross courses are
>cheap and reasonably good.

Some of the reasons to take FA classes include the fact that in a severe
disaster, we will likely run out of things like bandages.  Oh, no bandages,
what would we do?  Lest the patient bleed to death.  FA should train you
that clean sheets are okay.  FA should train you to understand the priorities
of giving aid (like the ABCs: Airway, Breathing, C* [fill in the blank]),
the limitations, and the liabilities.

The routine of applying aid is also useful in reducing panic.

FA should include CPR.

--eugene miya, NASA Ames Research Center, eugene@orville.nas.nasa.gov
  Resident Cynic, Rock of Ages Home for Retired Hackers
  {uunet,mailrus,other gateways}!ames!eugene
Second Favorite email message: Returned mail: Cannot send message for 3 days
A Ref: Mathematics and Plausible Reasoning, vol. 1, G. Polya
Newsgroups: ca.earthquakes
From: tar@ISI.EDU (Thomas A. Russ)
Newsgroups: ca.earthquakes
Subject: Re: Power LInes
Date: 19 Aug 92 17:25:16 GMT
Reply-To: tar@isi.edu
Organization: USC-ISI
In-reply-to: tpickett@auspex.com's message of 19 Aug 92 14:47:06 GMT

In article ... tpickett@auspex.com (Tom Pickett) writes:
 > In article ..., robin@fisher.bio.uci.edu (Robin Bush) writes:
 >> I think it is because  the current can't travel on through the rubber  
 >> tires, and there is no "current" unless it is flowing (someone more  
 >> technical please spruce this up).  
 > 
 > Actually, the reason you are safe in a car not only with power lines
 > but also with lightening, is because the electricity can easily flow
 > to ground through the car with little resistance.  This is why in 
 > aircraft there are small wires interconnecting the various parts 
 > of the airframe allowing an easy path through the aircraft and then 
 > to ground.  On aircraft constructed of composites, there are wire
 > meshes embedded in the composite surface to allow an easy conductance
 > through the structure to ground.
 > 

OK.  Let's try to clarify the situation:

1)  The tires on a car do a pretty good job of insulating the vehicle.
    This plays a role in making it safe.  Note that aircraft are
    quite well insulated from the ground by the air.

2)  The other major factor contributing to survival of lightning and
    power line mishaps is the conducting nature of the vehicle.  The
    metal cage of the car acts as a Farraday cage.  The physics of
    electrical conduction dictate that current is carried on the
    outside of a conductor rather than the inside.  Since both cars
    and planes are conductors, there is no current flowing through the
    middle.

3)  It also helps that the top and bottom of the car are at the same
    voltage (due to the conducting nature of the structure), so no
    current will flow.  (A voltage drop is required for current to flow).

--

Thomas A. Russ                                             tar@isi.edu    
USC/ISI, 4676 Admiralty Way, Marina del Rey, CA 90292      (310) 822-1511