HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: tk@dcs.ed.ac.uk (Tommy Kelly)
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
Subject: Re: Different Karate Fists
Date: 26 Aug 92 11:24:18 GMT
Reply-To: tk@dcs.ed.ac.uk (Tommy Kelly)
Organization: Laboratory for the Foundations of Computer Science, Edinburgh U

In article <memo.594179@cix.compulink.co.uk> bburgar@cix.compulink.co.uk writes:

>What is this "post-impact" bend? Which way is the wrist bent etc?

The wrist bends outwards.

Imagine a left gedan-barai.  As contact is made, the wrist is bent further
to the left.

I've seen our high grades do it in kata, but have never had it explained.

I haven't discounted a simple bad habit on their part :-)

tommy
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
From: anderson@fermi.phys.ualberta.ca (Warren G. Anderson)
Subject: Re: Shotokan and Shotokai
Organization: University Of Alberta, Edmonton Canada
Date: Tue, 25 Aug 1992 18:30:11 GMT

In article <42235@skye.dcs.ed.ac.uk> tk@dcs.ed.ac.uk (Tommy Kelly) writes:
> Does anyone know the current relationship between the style Shotokan
> and the style Shotokai?

From David Mitchell's "Official Karate" :

"The Shotokai broke away from the Shotokan in 1956. They considered that, by
involving itself with commercialism and competition, the Shotokan was no 
longer practising true karatedo as expounded by the founder (Warren's note:
that would be Funakoshi, who "was not in favour of competition or sparring
and regarded kata as the ultimate expression of Shotokan").They therefore
set up their own organization and returned to more traditional methods."

As a casual aside, how does Mitchell's book rate as far as the accuracy of
historical and factual information. I notice that our club uses different
names for many techniques. 
 
> So what then is "kai"?

I am also interested in this. The style I study is Wado Kai, which apparently
broke away from Wado Ryu when Sensei Shintani (Wado Kai) had some 
disagreement with the founder Otsuka's son over who should take control of
the ryu after Otsuka's death. Thus, it seems to me that Kai is used to indicate
a piece of the ryu that has split off, but I'm not sure.
--
########################## _`|'_ ##############################################
##  Warren G. Anderson     |o o| "... for its truth does not matter, and is  ##
##  Dept. of Physics       ( ^ )  unimaginable." -J. Ashbery, The New Spirit ##
##  University of Alberta  /\-/\      (anderson@fermi.phys.ualberta.ca)      ##
From: wrat@unisql.UUCP (wharfie)
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
Subject: Re: Can boxing skills handle kicking ?
Date: 31 Aug 92 19:52:22 GMT
Reply-To: wrat@unisql.UUCP (wharfie)
Organization: UniSQL, Inc., Austin, Texas, USA

In article <1992Aug31.133144.28640@marlin.jcu.edu.au> cpgrb@marlin.jcu.edu.au (Graeme Bennett) writes:
>People who follow the way do not subject themselves to debasing
>events such as tournaments where the individual is only after fame or

	Hey!  Tournament fighting is very useful in cultivating a proper
mental attitude under pressure and against opponents of unknown capabilities.
It also gives you great feedback on your own relative skills:  if you can
defeat someone who knows more or less what you'll do and has practiced not
to let you do it than you probably understand what you're doing.

	*And* it's fun!

>A good martial artist will not be unbalanced when executing a kick.

	Yes, but unless she's a *great* martial artist she'll sure as hell
be immobile until that foot gets back down to the mat.

>In every boxing fight I have seen,there are long periods where either 
>fighter has an opening that they do not take, but instead stand there 
>panting and drooling. 

	That's because they're tired and groggy from being hit!  See, boxers
really hit each other.

>They either attack or block punches with their faces.

	How many good boxers have you fought?  Trying to punch a boxer's
face is like trying to foot sweep a judoka.

>Marital artist train without rules and restrict themselves in a competition.

	Aww, foo.  If you don't train with rules how can you train at all?
"Hey, why did you break my arm?? I tapped out!!!" "Sorry, real martial
artists don't have rules."

	What's the half-life of a new student at your school? :-)


From: wendy@hpfcmgw.FC.HP.COM (Wendy Milner)
Date: Mon, 31 Aug 1992 19:22:53 GMT
Subject: Supplier Help
Organization: HP Fort Collins, CO
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts


I am looking for a place that will embroder a name on a
black belt.  Any recommendations are welcome.  Any area
in the U.S.  The black belt will be awarded in November
so I have some time to find it.

Wendy

Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
From: meyer@dbsun.uucp (Don Meyer)
Subject: Re: Activist shot at Berkeley Chancellor's home 
Organization: BioMerieux-Vitek, St. Louis Mo.
Date: Tue, 1 Sep 1992 15:15:53 GMT

In article <715302097snx@ietech.demon.co.uk> nigel@ietech.demon.co.uk ("Nigel G. Backhurst") writes:
>A few months ago during some inner city troble, I saw a police
>officer effectively disarm a six foot two machete wielding
>160 lb assailent using an English Police trunction.  I belive
>these are somewhat smaller than American Police nightsticks.
>shin.
> [...]
>Sorry but using a gun against a machete seems a bit of an
>overkill.

But do you really think that _every_ police officer on the force could
have done that?  How was this officer so sure that his opponent wasn't
*better* trained with a Machete?  Sure enough to bet his life?!?!
Sure enough to bet the life of the unarmed civilian that might have been
the attacker's next target?  (Perhaps the attacker was originaly
going after his/her spouse/ex-boss etc.?)

Coming at someone with a deadly weapon clearly gives implicit consent
for deadly force to be applied in response.  Sure, if there is time
and opportunity, throwing a net over the attacker or tear-gas etc. is
great.  But I don't think all Crazed-Machette-Wielders (tm) can be
counted upon to stage their attacks under "ideal" conditions that
would allow police to kindly disarm them.

Don

-- 
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
meyer%dbsun.uucp@wupost.wustl.edu        |||     I am at two with nature.
Opinions expressed are personal.         |||       -- Woody Allen
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
From: osan@cbnewsb.cb.att.com (Mr. X)
Subject: Re: Looking for Japanese Dictionary
Organization: Twilight Zone
Distribution: usa
Date: Fri, 28 Aug 1992 19:57:33 GMT

In article <1992Aug28.135251.8622@sei.cmu.edu> dmw@sei.cmu.edu (David White) writes:
>Hey all:
>
>Also, where would a person go to purchase a cheap($180 - $400) katana.  I need
>a real one to practice with, but since it will be getting banged on frequently
>I am hoping that there are swords that are not antiques that will last  and are
>relatively inexpensive.

	Sorry to piss on your parade, but the liklihood of finding a 
	serviceable blade that will not get pummeled to shit by a bo
	ken, bo, jo or another blade for $400 is not so great.  Even the
	decent Iai-to that run around $400 are very soft steel.  My friend
	Bobby had a ver nice looking example.  Then one day whilst practicing
	something like ko musubi (or however the hell you spell it), he
	went edge to edge with his partner's blade and I wound up spending a 
	good 6 hours fixing the damage.  By judicious use of coining technique
	and a very small amount of filing I was able to restore the blade to
	the point where the damage is apparent only upon very close inspection.
	And this was the result of a relatively light tap.  Had the impact been
	greater, the blade would have been seriously and permanently marred.

	You could try to find a crappy old shin gunto, but again if you are 
	training, you will be stuck using a blade that is almost 100% certain
	to be poorly fitted, which is not a good thing.  And this is probably
	going to be the case for any sword, including many very expensive
	blades.  By poorly fitted, I mean that the tang and hilt will be far 
	too short to allow for proper body geometry whilst executing cuts.
	This was one of the more unfortunate by products of the Tokugawa
	Shogunnate.  Since few persons were doing any actual fighting with
	swords, the long (i.e. properly fitted) hilts were eventually looked
	upon as a pain in the ass, so the Samurai began having them cut down
	so that they would be more comfortable to wear (and believe me, having
	a wood and tape wrapped piece of steel sticking at least a good 14"
	out from your gut takes a LOT of getting used to, especially when you
	have to be careful not to run into another person with it lest you
	find yourself in a duel to the death).  That's why the blades that
	are commonly available today have those miserable little 8 or 9 inch
	hilts.  Can't cut for shit with something like that, especially when
	making "do" cuts.

	Personally, I'd go for a well made and fitted bokken for the bulk of
	my training work.  As far as a real balde goes... well, you COULD
	buy one of my S7 tool steel blades, but that would not exactly run in
	your range.  And then you'd need to find a scabbard, which if custom
	made will run you a pretty penny as well.  But of ocurse it WOUD be 
	properly fitted :).  Oh, and furniture... I forgot furniture.  These
	damned things get so stupidly expensive.  Ever consider switching to
	stamp collecting?
	

	-Andy V.
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
From: satadd00@nx28.mik.uky.edu (scott andrew taddiken)
Subject: Judo
Keywords: judo, wrestling
Summary: kids in judo, origin of judogi, cornish wrestling
Organization: University of Kentucky
Date: Wed, 2 Sep 1992 17:29:15 GMT

I have 3 cents worth to put in.  Still no yoko-tomoe pointers out there for me?

1) Kids in judo:  Almost anything can be made into a game if you think about it
		  hard enough.  Wheel-barrow rides (hopping if you think you
		  need an extra hard workout) take the place of pushups,
		  many kinds of "Indian wrestling" can teach about
		  off-balancing.  Randori, IMHO, should be made into
		  specialized games for part of the practice, to develop
		  certain skills.  For instance, ask one guy to stiff arm and
		  nothing else.  The other guy tries to throw.  I've run entire
		  practices for ADULTS as a sequence of games (the most boring
		  of which was "follow the leader").  They love it.  They work
		  harder.  They don't think about how tired they are.

2) The origin of the judogi: I have been told that it is of Portugese origin.
			     Before the Portugese missionaries came to Japan,
			     people wore shawls, that is, clothing made by
			     cutting a hole in the middle of a large piece of
			     cloth (for your head) and sewing up the sleeves.
			     The Portugese showed them their tunic style
			     undergarment for armored warriors.  The Japanese
			     saw its usefulness, and adopted it.  What is
			     fascinating to me is how many karateka and even
			     kung-fu-ists I see wearing the same outfit.  Those
			     arts were never practiced, as far as I know, by
			     samurai.

3) Cornish Wrestling: The competing style of Yorkshire and Devon Wrestling.
		      The jacket that they wore allowed one to take a grip on
		      the inside of the jacket, which was almost impossible to
		      break.  Thus, the practicioners often ended up belly to
		      belly, unable to turn for a throw.  I made a study of
		      this a few years ago, but saw nothing of interest to a
		      judoka.  Wrestlers were huge and strong, and they either
		      pushed the opponent out of bounds or used leg trips or
		      executed what is now known as a salto to beat their
		      opponent.  There was no groundwork, as in Greco-Roman.
		      This part of grappling they regarded as animalistic and
		      distasteful.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
Scott A. Taddiken       University of Kentucky
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
From: psc@sei.cmu.edu (Peter Capell)
Subject: Re: Boxing and Kicks
Organization: Software Engineering Institute
Date: Mon, 31 Aug 1992 14:39:19 GMT


Well, my sparring partner and I perform one round feet & hands and one round
just hands in series for about an hour and a half per bout -- seems like good
training.  He has somewhat of an advantage when we go hands on hands (most
boxers he fights say he has *very* fast hands), but when we kick, he typically
can never touch me unless I do something adventurous or just plain stupid.  He
can basically do nothing against my constant shin kicks, and indeed, I have
found these to cause him to leave his head inexcusably (by his own standard)
open.  

I've never fought with a a professional boxer, but I sincerely doubt there is
much to do against a good low-line kicker when all you have is your hands.
I have been very effective with these, and I'm not even very good at them yet.

Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
From: satadd00@nx33.mik.uky.edu (scott andrew taddiken)
Subject: Re: Yoko Tomoe Nage
Keywords: judo, yoko-tomoe
Summary: A very tricky throw.
Organization: University of Kentucky
Date: Fri, 28 Aug 1992 16:42:23 GMT

Dave did, IMHO, a fine job of explaining the basic mechanics of yoko-tomoe,
and even began to describe a working entry when he wrote of practicing with a
kata style setup.  As I have written, I do this throw fairly successfully and
cannot for the life of me teach anybody else how it works.  One is tempted to
simply call it a knack and give up on the yoko-tomoe impaired.

I have seen many competitors use a number of entries to this throw.  I would
not presume to say that there was any one person who is the principal
exponent of it.  It seems to me there are two basic approaches:

1) Moving entry: Get the opponent bent over a bit and moving quickly toward
   the diagonal of his lapel-gripping hand.  Drop into the wierd sideways
   position, and throw in the appropriate direction (if his momentum carries
   him over in standard tomoe style, so be it; if he pulls back, twist him
   hard with the hands in the method Dave described).

2) Stationary entry: (I do this one).  You have an opponent who "belly's out"
   as his main line of defense; i.e. at the first sign of attack he thrusts
   his arms out, legs back and straight, bending forward at the waist.  Adopt
   kenka yotsu against this opponent.  Fake an over the top throw of your
   choice, but whip yourself back around when you're halfway in.  Pull stronly
   at your mutual lapel hand to keep his arm straightened, and sit into the
   before-mentioned wierd position.  Always throw toward your sleeve gripping
   side with that bizzare twisting action that Dave described.

Any ideas on the key points that I do but do not know how to teach?
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Scott A. Taddiken, University of Kentucky
-----------------------------------------------------------------------

note 1:	by kenka yotsu I simply mean the situation in which I have adopted an
	orthodox right handed grip while my opponent has adopted an orthodox
	left handed grip, or vise-versa.  It had not occurred to me that it
	might also mean the situation in which both of you have right sided
	grips, but you switch your right hand to his right lapel, yama-arashi
	style.  Sorry if there was any confusion.

note 2: I am unconvinced that ude-garami attacks the elbow.  To me it sounds
	like a party line that we are all expected to believe without proof.
	I have never seen it work in any but local competitions (although you
	might argue that its threat helped to set people up for other things
	in some high level contests).
From: poore@ds9.scri.fsu.edu (David Poore)
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
Subject: Re: kyokunshikai karate ???
Date: 2 Sep 92 19:03:49 GMT
Reply-To: poore@ds9.scri.fsu.edu (David Poore)
Organization: Florida State University

In article <60047@mimsy.umd.edu> tms@cs.umd.edu (Tom Swiss (not Swift, not Suiss, Swiss!)) writes:
>first class. I've also seen a film of a Kyokushinkai black belt going
>one on one with a black bear. (I think that's highly unethical, but it
>is impressive.) If you can find it, _Fighting Black Kings_ is a film

Waitaminute! Was this bear sans teeth and claws? If not, it would indeed
be impressive. And I'd like to see it...

David Poore
poore@ds9.scri.fsu.edu

Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
From: fcrary@ucsu.Colorado.EDU (Frank Crary)
Subject: Re: Martial Arts Interest
Organization: University of Colorado, Boulder
Distribution: usa
Date: Fri, 4 Sep 1992 00:21:40 GMT

In article <MARY.92Sep3112351@martinique.Cayman.COM> mary@Cayman.COM (Mary Malmros) writes:
>True, but what Lavonne seems to be looking for is a book that's got a 
>general description of some common styles.  My standard recommendation
>is "The Complete Martial Arts" by Paul Crompton.  It isn't complete -- 
>as Frank and Steve note, there are bazillions of different styles -- but
>I think it covers most of the styles you're likely to run into.  Granted,
>it does not go into great detail about sub-styles (e.g., different karate
>styles or kung fu styles)

Admittidly, it would be splitting hairs (in a general discussion) to 
call, say, Chen Tai Chi and Yang Tai Chi "different styles". But still,
I have trouble imagining a discription of Gung Fu as a single style of
martial arts. This clumps together everything from Tai Chi to San Su (sp?)
to alot of things I'm not familiar with.

                                                 Frank Crary
                                                 CU Boulder

Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
From: krystek@alcor.bms.com (Stanley Krystek)
Subject: Re: Moving during kicking
Organization: Bristol-Myers Squibb, Macromolecular Modeling
	<3561@unisql.UUCP> <MARY.92Sep1123818@martinique.Cayman.COM>
	<3581@unisql.UUCP> <MARY.92Sep2174033@martinique.Cayman.COM>
Date: Thu, 3 Sep 1992 15:38:36 GMT


In response to moving while kicking, many of the "great" kickers
I have studied with at clinics teach a variety of techniques for
allowing more mobility on a single leg.  "Superfoot" Bill Wallace
is quite mobile on one leg and I would think could be effective 
against Fang the Mugger.

I however, although I love to kick, and use that chamber kick when
in point tournaments (thanks Mary) I find for self-defense and sparring
in class or at clinics I rarely chamber my leg and advance or retreat.
The old saying "two hands are better than one" applies ot legs on the 
ground as well.

It is however an advantage to be able to throw rapid kicks and to feign
a leg attack and close and counter with a variety of hand techniques,
whatever works.

stan

 
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Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
From: kkangas@tnclus.tele.nokia.fi
Subject: kyokunshikai karate ???
Organization: Nokia Telecommunications.
Date: Tue, 1 Sep 1992 12:12:51 GMT



        What is kyokunshikai karate style ?

        In here those guys are advertising it to be the toughest karate 
        style in a world. They are calling it "knock down karate".

        Please, no flames. I'm TKD people and not consider to start train 
        this style. Just wanna know what is it anyway.


        t kari
From: garth@dojo.West.Sun.COM (Garth)
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
Subject: Re: Silent or vocal sparring?
Date: 4 Sep 1992 20:37:41 GMT
Organization: Sun Microsystems
Distribution: world
Reply-To: garth@dojo.West.Sun.COM
NNTP-Posting-Host: dojo.west.sun.com

In article 5825@bnrmtl.bnr.ca, carbon@bnrmtl.bnr.ca (Peter Carbon) writes:
>Hello fellow r.m-a'ers,
>
> Thought I might start a new thread about a subject that has been on
>my mind for a while now. Is it useful to be vocal when sparring, i.e.
>utter a fierce kiai as you strike or grunt as you block ?

How about a kiai when you block.  When I block (a term I am using broadly
to encompass any action on my part to nullify an attack) I aim for one of
two things:

	1) Injure the attacking limb so it is useless.(what I call an active block)
	2) Help the opponent unballence himself to enable me to stike at
	   the attacker, but he cannot strike at me(passive block)

I have found that Kiaing on active blocks helps.  For why I think this
is see below.

>
> Now I've tried both ways and it does seem more tiring to kiai when you
>strike even though it may disconcert your opponent at first and give
>you a slight advantage. It could be that there is some kind of subtlety
>about kiais that I am missing however.

If a Kiai disconcerts, or distracts an opponent, then the opponent is
not well trained.  If the opponet is not well trained, why Kiai.

I think what a Kiai does is:

	1) Psych yourself up, giving you attack a bit more power.
	2) A load noise w/ pain tends to make a person think s/he was damaged 
	   more than s/he really was.

	and of course (and maybe most important):

	3) Add great theatrical effect
>
> So what do you people think? Is it better to fight silently, thereby
>conserving energy, or to use kiais to perhaps disconcert your oppponent
>and add more emphasis to a strike?

	While constant Kiai's while fighting might make you loose energy
(it will also loose what ever effectiveness against an opponent it might
have had), one or two well timed Kiais seem to give enegery...at least to
me.

	Braething is an important part of fighting.  If Kiai's and
grunting get in the way of "proper" breathing, then they are not good.

	-Garth




			= = = = = = =
  | Garth R. Doverspike		Sun Microsystems, S.E. Seattle |
  | garth.doverspike@west.sun.com			       |

Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts