From: Will Steeves <goid@zooid.guild.org>
Subject: Sexual Harassment of Men (was: "Know It All"...)
X-To: ALL
Organization: The Zoo of Ids
Date: Sat, 12 Dec 1992 05:44:00 GMT

mills@uga.edu (Kathi Mills) writes...

KM> > W. Steeves
KM> >CS> CJ

KM> >CS> You equate a mug with political slogans on it with a pin-up
KM> >CS> calendar?  You think that if nude photographs consitute sexual
KM> >CS> harassment, so also must the political content of a mug?

KM> >I made no such equation.  I merely stated that if the definition of sexual
KM> >harassment is a gender-based action or situation which makes one feel
KM> >uncomfortable, then a mug making such "political" statements as the one I s
KM> >*OR* the "Seminars For Men" flyer, *do* indeed make *me* feel uncomfortable
KM> >thank you very much.

KM> The definition of sexual harassment is FAR more narrow than you seem to thin
KM> The definition is something like, the actions, displays, etc. must create
KM> an atmosphere of harassment that makes it difficult or impossible for one
KM> person or a class of persons to work, or which creates an atmosphere in whic
KM> it is acceptable for a person or class of persons to be discriminated agains
KM> on the basis of race, color, nationality, gender, religion, handicap, vetera
KM> status, in some cases sexual orientation, etc. etc.

KM> One pinup, in and of itself, would not constitute sexual harassment any more
KM> than that one mug.  However, in most cases where pinups are allowed to be
KM> openly displayed on company property, you would probably find that sexism
KM> is pervasive in that company; men occupy all management positions; and other
                                  ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

I consider this irrelevant.  It *seems* as though you are saying that there
would be less sexual harassment if there were more women in management.
Perhaps, perhaps not.  See my comments at the end of this message, for an
explanation as to why I consider gender to be not entirely relevant.


KM> harassment occurs.  The pinups, in this case, are not the problem; they are
KM> an overt symptom of the problem, which is rampant sexism.  But they reinforc
KM> the notion that women are merely sex objects; and their open display reminds
KM> the women in that company that the men do not respect their wishes or belief
    ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

...and this seems to make the implicit assumption that only women can suffer
sexual harassment.  I apologise if you feel that I am nitpicking with you,
but this is what you seem to be saying...


KM> In the same vein, if the mug in your example was merely an overt symptom of
KM> a much larger problem that also took many other forms, and the display of
KM> the mug served to encourage the discrimination, you would have a case.  But
KM> one mug, by itself, does not constitute sexual harassment, no matter what
KM> it says.

Perhaps, but what if the women of a company, regardless of their positions in
or out of management, had circulated the now well-known "Seminars For Men"
flyers.  Would you consider this to be sexual harassment?

BTW, this *did* happen in another company which I worked for...  And yes, it
*did* make me feel *very* uncomfortable, though I did not know how to respond,
irrespective of the presence of male management.  Indeed, I do not think that
the *gender* of management is important, but their level of *compassion* and
understanding.  Along this line, even *if* every person in upper management
of a company, happened to be female, there would *still* be rampant sexual
harassment if these women did not have any understanding of the problem and/or
compassion for people who have been made uncomfortable.

---
Will Steeves, goid@zooid.guild.org                      "Neil Hull is GOiD"
ZOOiD BBS, Toronto, Ontario - The Zoo Of Ids            "GOiDS Rule"
(416) 322-7876

"Cthulhu for President in '92 - Why vote for the _lesser_ of two evils?"
                                                          - Bronis Vidugiris
---
 * SLMR 2.1a * "I prefer to call it the Prime Suggestion" - Captain Kirk
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