HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: ts@cup.portal.com (Tim W Smith)
Newsgroups: pnw.general
Subject: Re: Tell me about Seattle
Date: Mon,  6 Apr 92 20:49:43 PDT
Organization: The Portal System (TM)
  <1992Apr3.190637.21137@eskimo.celestial.com>

> Really, now.  Your posting seems a little arrogant to me.  Here you come
> along, wanting to study in an occupation which already has far too many
> practitioners, displaying your lack of ecological consciousness, apparently
> unaware of heavy influx of Californians to the PNW, etc., etc.

Are you ecologically perfect?  I'm very ecologically conscious.  However,
my irrational dislike of small things that eat my books activates a lower
area of my brain, and I nuke 'em.  I am careful to use the minimum amount
of "Raid" necessary -- and then only when I feel that swatting won't work.
:-)

And where do you get this idea that there are too many lawyers?  Seriously,
I almost started my personal statement for my law school applications with

	"I want to be a lawyer because there aren't enough lawyers in
	 this country."

Are you telling me that the *are* enough lawyers?

							Tim SMith
From: htodd@amadeus.wr.tek.com (Hisashi Todd Fujinaka)
Newsgroups: pnw.general
Subject: Re: Tell me about Seattle
Date: 6 Apr 92 23:26:52 GMT
Article-I.D.: wrgate.9380
Reply-To: htodd@wrgate.wr.tek.com
Distribution: pnw
Organization: Tektronix, Inc., Beaverton,  OR.

In article <7590004@hpcvaac.cv.hp.com> vernon@hpcvaac.cv.hp.com (Vernon King) writes:
>Why the hell are you guys so hostile. It is a free country and this person 
>who asked a question deserves a civil answer. So the guy wants to be a lawyer,
>so what. I am sure I could find problems with your occupations. If you do not
>like his "Raid" comment than explain to him why his comment upsets you. Yes 
>the movement of people to the northwest causes problems but your comments 
>are rude and not constructive.

Being rude to lawyers is a national pastime, and I don't see any
problem there.  If someone wants to be a lawyer, they should be able
to put up with being ridiculed.  I assume that they will be laughing
all the way to the bank.

As for the goofy Raid-related questioning, I thought it was an April
Fool's joke.  But there are people who are afraid of spiders (like my
mom for instance).  I tend to carry spiders outside, where they help
me wake up in the morning by putting strands in front of the door.

I don't know if you get the full impact of the anti-California
sentiment down there in Cornvalley.  I have lived in NW Portland for
my entire life, except for my minor 10 year excursion to college and
Japan.  When I left, NW Portland was a semi-industrial, almost scary
place to live.  There were rich doctors up on 'the hill' but the
neighborhood was mainly working-class folks.  My dad, a landscaper,
bought a small house in the neighborhood when it was this way.

After some time, the guppies moved in, and the only thing I have
against 'them' is that they usually are followed by the yuppies.  Now
there are all too many BMWs and other abominations (cars which cost
more than a house should) and awful boutiques where you really can't
buy anything useful.  You can't buy a house here (although I've been
trying) and there are a lot of people at the open houses saying, "You
couldn't touch anything like this in California for twice as much!"
If you're an emmigrant from some other state, I don't think you'd be
making yourself quite as visible, unless you're from Texas.  But then
again, you don't get to many Texans up here.

After a while, you get jaded.

Todd
From: neal@atmos.washington.edu (Neal Johnson)
Newsgroups: pnw.general
Subject: Re: Tell me about Seattle
Date: 8 Apr 92 19:55:35 GMT
Article-I.D.: eos-airs.NEAL.92Apr8115535
Distribution: na
Organization: Dept. of Atmospheric Sciences, University of Washington

In article <80qj7vd.peterh@netcom.com> peterh@netcom.com (Peter John Harrison) writes:

<<<SARCASM ON>>>
> I've been reading this thread, from down here in San Francisco.  Yes,
> mygawddon'ttellmeit'sa *Californian*!   Eeeeekkkkk!
>

Why were you reading it?  Arghh, you're thinking of moving here aren't
you.

> Gimme a break.  Even if I have lived in this state, on and off, for 
> about 2/3 of my 30 years, does that mean I fit in with the stereotype
> you hace me set up for?
>
> What if I was black?  Hispanic?  A woman?  Rich?  Poor?
>
> I can see holding predjudice against an individual, say a politician,
> because you know something about him and don't like it, but
> suggesting

(Jerry Brown, say?)

> all Californians are filth and shouldn't be allowed to move to your
> neighborhood?  Shall we send all Jews and Japaneese back to detainment,
> too?  Take the vote away from blacks, women, and people who don't own 
> property (one of the original requirements to vote in many states)?
>
> Shall we issue little I.D. cards and set up toilets: "Californians"
> "Good People"   ?????

Hmmm. Don't rush me.
>
> If you really feel that way, please feel free to join the Nazis or 
> other political party of your choice.  But don't bother telling me 
> you have an open mind about sex, race, and religion.  You can't even 
> get past where a guy lives.

<<<SARCASM OFF>>>
 
 You are, of course, correct.
--
Neal C. Johnson		INTERNET: neal@atmos.washington.edu
                 	UUCP:	  uw-beaver!atmos.washington.edu!neal
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
         "No Harrylock!  Don't squirt me with that acid."
From: bright@nazgul.UUCP (Walter Bright)
Newsgroups: pnw.general
Subject: Re: FW: news release: abolish IRS
Date: 7 Apr 92 00:03:08 GMT
Reply-To: bright@nazgul.UUCP (Walter Bright)
Organization: Zortech, Seattle

In article <visser.702539448@convex.convex.com> visser@convex.com (Lance Visser) writes:
/	They believe that it is wrong to
/have laws that require doctors to help at the scene of an accident or
/an emergency.

	Sounds like involuntary servitude to me, i.e. slavery.
Sounds a little unfair to also hold the doctor liable for any mistakes
made, too. What if the doctor is tired or drunk or simply incompetent (and
knows it?). Do you *really* want a doctor to work on you *only* because he
was *forced* to? I suspect that 95% of doctors really believe that they
are doctors to help people, and would stop and help of their own free will.
The other 5% I don't want touching me.

/	They oppose laws requiring either air-bags or seat belts to be 
/provided as standard equipment in cars. 

	It seems that a lot of the hype about air-bags is propaganda. I read
that they were ineffective (they don't inflate fast enough) for crashes
over 38mph, and at angles of more than 20 degrees from head-on. IMO, this
makes them nearly useless compared to seat belts. The collisions I worry
about are freeway ones, or head ons (two cars hitting head on at 25 mph
gives a 50 mph collision).

	I'm casually involved in auto racing. Racers do not use air bags,
and they are *very* safety conscious. They would use them if they worked.

	I always have my seatbelt on. My dad had them installed on all
our cars, long before they were even optional on autos. I don't need no
steenkin' law. Wearing belts has saved both my and my brother's lives.
If people don't buckle up, really it's their own stupid fault.

/	In regard to the environment they believe that "strict liability, 
/not government agencies should regulate pollution."  They do not speak of
/what happens when the liable entity has ceased to exist through bankruptcy,
/disillusion or lack of funds.

	The prosecution options available range from civil liability,
bankruptcy, and possibly fraud.

	I envision a system where instead of taxing (punishing) productive
activities, the government should raise revenue by taxing pollution and
consumption of natural resources. For instance, tax gasoline, raw forest
products, coal, mineral ore, smokestack emmissions, flourocarbon products,
styrofoam, effluent dumped into rivers or ground, etc.
Newsgroups: pnw.general
From: osiris@polari.com (David Ruggiero)
Subject: Re: progeny limits/overpopulation
Keywords: population explosion
Organization: Seattle Online (polari)
Date: Sat, 11 Apr 1992 22:05:26 GMT

dcb@kopachuk.uucp (David Breneman) writes:

>>[Kurt C] Overpopulation is intimately tied in to capitalist pro-growth
  philosophies

>[David] Beg pardon?

What I believe Kurt was alluding to is the uniquely Western belief that
if something isn't growing, it's dead. When was the last time you heard
on the 6 o'clock news "Stock markets surged ahead today on the news that
the nation's GNP had stayed _exactly_the_same_ for the tenth straight quarter
in a row". :-)  Instead, any growth of less than 3-4% per year in our total
economy (post-inflation) is taken as a sign of impending economic collapse.

Of course, without a growing population, an eternally expanding ecomony
is much more difficult to sustain, hence what I think was Kurt's point.
Until we change our priorities to value quality rather than quantity,
we depend on the rising population to create the illusion of economic
'progress'. This delays the ineveitable day when we will be forced to
create stable, sustainable economies not dependent on non-stop growth
for their survival.

 



Xref: sparky pnw.general:637 rec.travel:5584
From: kitsch@milton.u.washington.edu (Ted Fitch)
Newsgroups: pnw.general,rec.travel,uw.general
Subject: Re: anyone know about the Pacific Crest Trail?
Keywords: what can you tell me?
Date: 16 Apr 92 22:01:16 GMT
Organization: University of Washington, Seattle

In article <1992Apr15.231128.24650@u.washington.edu> badcheck@hardy.u.washington.edu () writes:
>I'm looking for info on something called the Pacific Crest Trail.
>I think it runs from WA to CA, but I'm not sure.  Has anyone hiked
>it, heard of it, or know where I can get info on it?
>thanks,
>craig
>

If you go to REI, or even the UW Bookstore, you can find numerous
guides to hiking the Pacific Crest Trail.  It runs from Canada
all the way to Mexico (at least, maybe even further).  I have hiked portions of it in the North Cascades.  It's pretty well maintained, and, well hiked.
But, best of all, it's gorgeous!

Ted
From: higa@lclark.edu (Keith Higa)
Newsgroups: pnw.general
Subject: Re: Tell me about Seattle
Date: 17 Apr 92 19:34:45 GMT
Article-I.D.: lclark.1992Apr17.193445.1828
Distribution: na
Organization: Lewis & Clark College, Portland OR

In article <70852@bcsaic.UUCP> vanover@bcsaic.UUCP (Jann VanOver) writes:
>Excuse me?  How long have YOU been in Seattle?  Didn't you know that
>Jaywalking has ALWAYS been a Seattle pastime?  We're known for it around
>the world!  Have been for decades!

Excuse me?  I think Portland also shares that distinction...

-- 
Keith K. Higa			Lewis & Clark College
higa@lclark.edu			Portland, OR, USA
"Do not worry about your difficulties in mathematics.
 I can assure you that mine are still greater." -- Albert Einstein
Newsgroups: pnw.general
From: Mark Crispin <mrc@Tomobiki-Cho.CAC.Washington.EDU>
Subject: Californian-bashing
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
Organization: University of Washington
Mime-Version: 1.0
Date: Wed, 8 Apr 1992 22:25:03 GMT

     It seems, based upon unscientific observation, that most of the PNW types
who bash Californians are themselves former Californians; and that most of the
`Californians moving up here' grew up in the PNW and left when the PNW went to
sleep a couple of decades ago (Remember `Will the last person to leave Seattle
PLEASE turn off the lights?') and are now returning home.

     It seems NIMBY is in full progress.
From: ts@cup.portal.com (Tim W Smith)
Newsgroups: pnw.general
Subject: Re: Tell me about Seattle
Date: Mon,  6 Apr 92 20:33:57 PDT
Organization: The Portal System (TM)

> By the way, do you know what slugs are?

Appetizers?

>What are your criterion for avoidance? Do you wish to avoid certain
>densities of ethnic groups, or perhaps those with different sexual preferences?
>Perhaps you just want to steer clear of certain economic classes?
>I can't really help you without knowing what you are looking for. Part
>of Seattle's attractiveness is the diversity of its neighborhoods. If
>you want something that looks like California, you won't find it in
>the city limits.

Ethnic groups are fine, and I don't mind an area having heterosexuals.

So far, every city I've lived in has had areas that any rational person
moving to that city would avoid.  For example, in the San Francisco
Bay area, Oakland and East Palo Alto seem to get much more than their
share of serious crime.  In East Palo Alto, they've gone beyond just
the drug dealers shooting each other.  The drug dealers are shooting
the citizens who are trying to get the drug dealers dealt with, and
the citizens are sometimes shooting back.  Moving to East Palo Alto
is simply not a good idea for now.

If Seattle has no areas like this, great!

> Sorry Tim if my response is a little pointed, but this was the most bizarre 
> request for living information I have ever seen.

Well, all the normal questions are answered by things like "Places Rated
Almanac."

							Tim Smith
Newsgroups: pnw.general
From: gregory@flood.zso.dec.com (Peter Gregory)
Subject: Re: Our gripe with Californians (was Re: Tell me about Seattle)
Organization: Digital Equipment Corporation - DECwest Engineering
Date: Mon, 13 Apr 1992 13:57:33 GMT

In article <70851@bcsaic.UUCP> vanover@bcsaic.UUCP (Jann VanOver) writes:

>Jann "Native for 100 years and NOT hostile about it" VanOver

Wow, I didn't know we had anyone over 100 years old on the net.  Could you
tell us some items of history that you remember from you youth?  Did you
watch the Denny Regrade?

Oh, you mean that some member of you family lived here 100 years ago?

Oh, not all members?  Some moved here from somewhere else?  Does that count?

Peter "Earth native for over 29 years"




Newsgroups: pnw.general
From: paul@maunakea.NoSubdomain.NoDomain (Paul Brownlow)
Subject: Re: FW: news release: abolish IRS
Organization: Data I/O Corporation
Date: Fri, 10 Apr 1992 17:07:37 GMT

In article <653@nazgul.UUCP> bright@nazgul.UUCP (Walter Bright) writes:
>The collisions I worry
>about are freeway ones, or head ons (two cars hitting head on at 25 mph
>gives a 50 mph collision).

This is only true if the masses of the vehicle are significantly different
such that all the momentum of one vehicle is transferred to the other.

If two vehicles of like mass (say, a Toyota Camry and a Subaru Legacy) are
each travelling at 25 mph in a head-on collision, their velocity each goes
from 25 mph to 0 mph; each would have roughly the same effect as running into
a wall at 25 mph.

If two vehicles of significantly different mass collide (say, a semi and a
motorcycle - not a Harley :-) ), momentum is transferred to the vehicle
of lesser mass:  for example, the semi's velocity might be 24mph and the
motorcycle's -24 mph after the collision.  The semi experiences the same 
effect as running into a wall at 1mph and the motorcycle effectively hit a 
wall at 49 mph.

Head on collisions are bad, but not as bad as Walter's statement implies.
The only thing that is 50 mph in these cases it the closing speed of the
vehicles.

Of course, a head-on collision is not exactly like hitting a wall since
the vehicle will have different elasticity properties than the wall.  It's
more like hitting a parked car in front of a wall.
-- 
Paul Brownlow				| 1992 Memorial Cup Tournament 
Data I/O Corp.  Redmond, WA		|       May 9-17, 1992
paul@data-io.com			|     Seattle, Washington
					|      CHL/WHL/OHL/QMJHL 
Newsgroups: pnw.general
From: osiris@polari.com (David Ruggiero)
Subject: Re: Recycling woes (was: re: Bottle Recycling about to die)
Organization: Seattle Online (polari)
Distribution: pnw
Date: Fri, 17 Apr 1992 01:10:57 GMT

listserv@fylz.wa.com (actually Phil Hughes) writes:

>It turns out there Rainier Brewery in Seattle does the program but:
>  * volume is lower than planned
>  * they don't refill the bottles, just sort and reuse the glass
>  * the program will be terminated on June 1

> When I lived in Olympia in the late 70's, lots of beer bottles were
> being refilled.  There was a huge recycling center where bottles were
> bought, sorted and returned for refilling.  Now we are in the 90' and we
> seem to think that melting down glass is recycling.

Actually, it's even worse than you think. As the market for mixed glass
has collapsed in the NW over the past two years (due to oversupply,
caused [ironically] by the success of recycling), all of the glass collected
in Seattle is simply being dumped in huge heaps in the South End until
they somehow find buyers (none are in sight). They are up to 10,000 *tons*
of the stuff and growing...

On another front, it's not well known that all of the 'mixed' (non-newspaper)
paper recycled in Seattle goes to Asian markets; buyers there are *charging*
recycling companies $10/ton to take the stuff. There is currently no
domestic market for the stuff because so few plants here can process it.

Until we all insist on more recycled products (with our pocketbooks),
none of this is likely to change. Of course, simply by *buying* less, we
could...naw, better not touch that one...

David Ruggiero (osiris@polari.com)

Newsgroups: pnw.general
From: mayo@pa.dec.com (Bob Mayo)
Subject: Re: Our gripe with Californians (was Re: Tell me about Seattle)
Organization: DEC Western Research Lab
Date: Thu, 16 Apr 92 23:04:05 GMT

In article <5121@tekig7.PEN.TEK.COM> bartonh@tekeda.pen.tek.com writes:
>You people who complain about traffic are no better than the newcomers--
>you both possess the same auto-centric philosophy.  If you think about
>it, the major thing that really makes L.A. such a s*** hole is the unbelievable
>tangle of roads/freeways/parking--I'll bet a good portion of that famous L.A.
>smog is caused by that (cars) too.

...and I'll add that people don't want to commute, either.  Why do they do it?
Because housing costs near employers are sky high.  Why are housing costs
near employers sky high?  Because the zoning laws allow more commercial 
development in an area than there is housing.  If each area had an excess
of land zoned residential compared to land zoned commercial, people would
live within biking distance of work.

--Bob
Newsgroups: pnw.general
From: osiris@polari.com (David Ruggiero)
Subject: Re: Tell me about Seattle (offensive to lawyers/Californians/Raid users)
Organization: Seattle Online (polari)
Date: Tue, 7 Apr 1992 00:57:35 GMT

bruceki@polari.com writes:

>  You're right.  He should have offered constructive (and visually
>interesting) things for lawyers from california to attempt.  That >would<
>have improved his posting.  

Good point, but remember that lawyers are constructed differently from
the rest of us, so some care would have to be taken to make sure that
said suggestions were anatomically possible. In lawyers, for example, the
main orifice of elimination is often combined with the main orifice used
for speech, which limits the possibilities somewhat.

Of course, lawyers from California form a distinct subspecies, known
primarily for their amazing growth rates during the last several
generations. It's not surprising, therefore, that some of them want
to begin new colonies outside their native habitats. Perhaps large
applications of Raid to these specific individuals could slow down this
migration somewhat.

Yours truly, Lesser Seattlite, David (note sig!)


-- 
|   J. David Ruggiero      Osiris Technical Services       Seattle, WA       |
|            osiris@polari.com    or  ...!uunet!polari!osiris                |
|      Living in Seattle is like being in love with a beautiful woman...     |
|                         who's sick all the time.                           |
From: dant@logos.wr.tek.com (Dan Tilque)
Newsgroups: pnw.general
Subject: Fusion garbage disposal (was Re: Progeny limits
Date: 16 Apr 92 22:41:52 GMT
Article-I.D.: wrgate.9499
Organization: Upper Left Coast Liberation Army

leonard@ssd.intel.com (Leonard Bottleman) writes:
>chrisbw@PDaXcess.techbook.com (Chris Wisehart) writes:
>
>>Let me give an example of one possibility I believe to be feasable with 
>>this decade.  Imagine a transportation system hauling all the earths 
>>waste to one place where a system of lasers control the fusion 
>>transformation of this waste into usable elements, i.e. gold, silver etc. 
>>The excess energy generated from this industry would be use to supply 
>>electricity to the world at a very small cost.  
>
>Excess energy? Where will the energy come from to transport all this waste
>to the fusion plants, or to make the vehicles which will transport it? Where
>will the energy come from for the high power lasers that are required for
>fusion?

You make some good points.  The fusion torch (as it's been called in
several sf books) would probably only be worthwhile for certain types of
waste.  Poisons that are not neutralizable in other ways and alloys that
cannot be recycled normally would probably be candidates.


>The products of fusion are highly radioactive for tens, if not hundreds,
>of thousands of years. So now we're converting all of our waste into
>unusable radioactive material which requires even more space for safe
>storage.

You're confusing fusion and fission.  Fusion, is much cleaner than
fission, especially if a deuterium-deuterium reaction can be made a
viable energy source.  If they have to use tritium, then things get
dirtier, but not as dirty as fission.

From what I understand, the fusion torch mostly involves using the very
high heat from a fusion reaction to break down molecules to their
constituent atoms.  Then you let the resulting hot gaseous mixture
separate out in a tower, much like petroleum is separated into octane,
septane, hexane, etc at a refinery.  Supposedly, you can get extremely
pure elements from this process.

However, it makes no sense to do this to most waste generated.  Plastic
resins, for example are probably more valuable that the carbon, oxygen,
and hydrogen they are composed of.  The same with paper fibers and
compostable waste.


---
Dan Tilque	--	dant@logos.WR.TEK.COM
From: listserv@fylz.wa.com (FYL List Server)
Newsgroups: pnw.general
Subject: Bottle Recycling about to die
Date: 15 Apr 92 22:44:45 GMT
Article-I.D.: fylz.1992Apr15.224445.1673
Distribution: pnw
Organization: FYL

A friend had brought a case of Henry's beer to my house.  I was
going to put the bottles in the city recycling bin (which means they
would get crushed and melted down at best).  But, on the case it said
that there is a recycling program for Henry's bottles.  So I called.

It turns out there Rainier Brewery in Seattle does the program but:
  * volume is lower than planned
  * they don't refill the bottles, just sort and reuse the glass
  * the program will be terminated on June 1

When I lived in Olympia in the late 70's, lots of beer bottles were
being refilled.  There was a huge recycling center where bottles were
bought, sorted and returned for refilling.  Now we are in the 90' and we
seem to think that melting down glass is recycling.

First, I encourage people to call the Rainier and Blitz breweries and
encourage them to take refilling seriously.  Second, anyone know of any
breweries that refill their bottles?


 -- Phil Hughes
From: ricke@amc.com (Rick Eggers)
Newsgroups: pnw.general
Subject: Re: Tell me about Seattle
Date: 7 Apr 92 21:26:13 GMT
Article-I.D.: amc.1992Apr7.212613.1273
Organization: Greater Seattle etc, WA

In article <7590004@hpcvaac.cv.hp.com> vernon@hpcvaac.cv.hp.com (Vernon King) writes:
>Why the hell are you guys so hostile. It is a free country and this person 
>who asked a question deserves a civil answer. So the guy wants to be a lawyer,
>so what. I am sure I could find problems with your occupations. If you do not
>like his "Raid" comment than explain to him why his comment upsets you. Yes 
>the movement of people to the northwest causes problems but your comments 
>are rude and not constructive.
>
>                                                      
>
>Vernon

People of Seattle are very rude, obnoxious people who eat 
their young. You should not go to the U of W but instead 
go to Corvalis. The people there are very considerate and
they love people from California. They envy the things you
have done with your state. And admire the sophistication
of your state and its people.