From: carl@SOL1.GPS.CALTECH.EDU (Carl J Lydick)
Newsgroups: comp.os.vms
Subject: Re: The Great Ones -- the sequel and last word from me
Date: 26 Jan 1993 10:17:07 GMT
Organization: HST Wide Field/Planetary Camera
Distribution: world
Reply-To: carl@SOL1.GPS.CALTECH.EDU
NNTP-Posting-Host: sol1.gps.caltech.edu

In article <1993Jan25.155939.597@doc.bmd.trw.com>, system@doc.bmd.trw.com writes:
>Please forgive me for taking up precious additional bandwidth with this
>list of replys I got to my message. I must admit I deleted some of the 
>messages I got that sided with the Inconsiderate-Great-Ones, including
>Phud's carefully edited version of my post.

In other words, you threw out the data that conflicted with your preconceived
notions.  In the scientific community, this is called data selection.  It's
considered the height of intellectual dishonesty.

>But then, he wasted more bandwidth 
>by posting it to the newsgroup, also. So then, monkey see, monkey... What an 
>jerk-off, shit-for-brains (attr.Carl) I am. 

Unless, of course, a shit-for-brains jackass like you does it, in which case
it's attributed to simple incompetence.

>I am NOT doing this to create more FLAMEAGE. The intent was to do something
>drastic to make the Great-Ones see how incredibily inconsiderate they are, and
>to get back to actual technical subjects and questions, no matter how stupid
>the question may seem.

Yes, that's a great tactic.  I can do it, too.  I'm not actually posting this
to point just how incredibly stupid and intellectually dishonest you are, just
to try to educate you.  Your self-serving lies are in indication that you're
too incompetent to engage even in legitimate rhetoric.

>The Mother of Flames to End all Flames. I actually
>think it worked to some extent. It seemed this last week the technical 
>messages finally exceeded the flameage and discussions of flameage.

And guess, what, jackass?  You've just started up the flames again.  I don't
suppose it occurred to you that maybe, JUST MAYBE, the reason for the change in
the content had something to do with the fact that people are actually starting
to ask well-defined questions?  Nah, that couldn't be it.  Your ideology *MUST*
be correct, despite all evidence to the contrary, right jackass?

>But then, as we all, know Phud has left the group. ;-(

Why don't you do us a favor and join him?  Or at least provide *SOME* of the
technical content you *CLAIM* to want?  Sorry, that would require that you
actually *KNOW* something about VMS, now wouldn't it?

>I really don't think he
>has. I think he's out there somewhere lurking, ready to pounce. In fact I
>bet he can't wait to edit this message, then we'll see.

Right, shit-for-brains.  Whence came your degree in psychology?  Sears-Roebuck? 
You got it just in time.  They've discontinued their catalog services.

>He can't help it.

Care to back up your statements with any evidence?

>We all know how those egotistical maniacs are, they can't help it.

Yup.  You're certainly competent to pronounce on such matters.  Unable to
provide any technical content to the group, you decide to restart a flame-fest
just so you can claim to contribute to the group, no?

>I have to 
>say this, at least Phud got the message, apparantly Carl never will get it.

Care to point out a few of your more recent posts on technical matters?  Don't
have any?  Too bad, jackass.

>Even when I put it in terms I felt even HE could understand. Go figure.

Well, I looked at a post from a jackass who doesn't have anything to contribute
to the group technically, concluded that he's just in it for the sake of
exercising his typing skills,  and dismissed you as yet another crank.  So far,
you haven't done anything to change my opinion of you.

>>"Mark Pizzolato 415-369-9366" <mark@infocomm.com>
>>Subject: Re: Oh, GREAT ONES', please help me!!!
>>
>>What useful did you contribute to the world wide bandwidth utilization by this
>>posting.  You are as guilty as those you are complaining about.  If you wanted
>>to simply say this to Ehud and Carl, then an E-mail message with two recipients
>>would have been appropriate.  Why did the whole world need to see you say this?
>>
>>Mark Pizzolato - INFO COMM Computer Consulting, Redwood City, Ca
>>PHONE:	(415)369-9366	UUCP:  decwrl!infopiz!mark or uunet!lupine!infopiz!mark
>>DOMAIN:	mark@infocomm.com
>
>Well, I guess I just wanted to contribute.

No, you just wanted to express your opinion, since you have no contributions to
make to the technical aspects of the group.

>Do you really think E-mail would have been as effective?

Since you seem to think that e-mail is the appropriate place for such
discussions, how is it that you justify your post?  Never mind.  *YOU* are the
only one entitled to post such non-technical stuff to the group.


>The bottom line is this: They have set themselves up as Judge, Jury and 
>Executioner of WHO should and should not post and WHAT they should or should
>not post and HOW they should or should not post it. I feel this is 
>inappropriate for a free-forum newsgroup. 

Well, shit-for-brains, 1 out of 3 amn't bad.
	1)  Who should post?  I can't recall that ever having been brought up
	2)  What they should post?  Well, if it's got to do with VAXen or VMS,
	    it's acceptable;
	3)  HOW they should post, well, there you've got me.  I would require
	    that when someone post, he actually ask a well-specified question.
	    Of course, you don't think that's reasonable.  It'd probably
	    exclude you from the group.

>It is terrorist-semantic-intimidation.

Gee.  Now I'm a terrorist.

>It limits, inhibits and eventually eliminates a free-forum.

You want a free-forum, go to talk.religion.newage.  This group's supposed to be
about VAXen and VMS.  It's supposed to be a forum in which questions are
answered.  To give one bad example, "Here are my sysgen parameters" is not an
answerable question.

>Struggling System
>Managers hesitate to ask a question because they are afraid if they don't
>phrase it correctly or include the (OBVIOUS! shuh) information they will
>have to endure the wrath of the Guru's. NO ONE should be intimidated into
>not posting to this medium.

You're wrong.  Someone who's unwilling to even read the on-line help shouldn't
be posting.  If he can't use the on-line help, he's unlikely to be able to
understand any answers he might be given in the group.

>NO ONE should have to be subjected to the 
>insults, name-calling, sexist, bigoted, filthy language provided by the
>ALL-KNOWING-ONES.

Yes, shit-for-brains.  We're all supposed to be nice even to incompetent
poseurs.  You belong in talk.religion.newage.bliss.ninnys.

>They are an embarassment to the profession.

Hmmm.  You've got a rather odd attitude.  Someone using language you don't like
is an embarassment to the profession.  Someone who doesn't know jack shit about
computers, but who still takes money for managing same is a credit to the
profession.  How do you justify that position?

>I am 
>embarassed for the Gentlemen and Ladies reading the articles on this newsgroup,
>who have to continually endure the strings of filth. All in the name of 
>Technical Genius. right! Sure you can say that I contributed, but as before
>stated, I was trying to reach them in the manner they MIGHT understand, and
>besides I'm a... (well I'll let Carl and Phud fill it in.)

You're a jackass.  How about you try contributing something technical to the
group?  You can't?  You're taking your employer's money under false pretenses?
Why, what a credit to the profession you are!

>PROBLEM SOLVING has to start somewhere. It can start with on-line help,
>with TFM (which we all know are all consuming, have all the answers, and
>are easy to understand... ;-0 ). For some, they want to try out their typing
>and access to the network, and so, pose an incomplete question. I submit,
>they will get the answer they search for, which is, give us more information,
>or give us more information, or give us different information, or do you know
>what a log file is?. Eventually they will move along the road to solving the
>problem. Peacefully, painstakingly, and without added stress they don't need.

And in so saying, you ignore the evidence of the posts from last autumn.

>Some have posed, that a list of possible information to include when asking
>a question be included as a FAQ type of posting. Good Idea. However, just
>because the question seems simple,

HOLD IT RIGHT THERE, SHIT-FOR-BRAINS.  I've seldom flamed anybody for asking
simple questions.  For asking questions that could be answered by using the
on-line HELP facility, yes.  For asking non-questions that demonstrate a
complete ignorance of what a computer is, yes.  For asking questions that
they've just had answered for them, most definitely.  For asking simple
questions, no.

>why can't these people simply hit SKIP
>and go on to the more difficult things they know so much about? Don't answer.

Nice try.  Ask a rhetorical question impugning the motives of your adversary,
then try to squelch a response.  Are you sure you're not a lawyer?

If we just hit "SKIP," then the moron who asked a non-question is simply going
to conclude that his post never made it to the group (never mind the fact that
he saw it on his own news server [which is somewhat excusable, since default
distribution settings could have restricted his post to his own organization]
or in his mail, after he'd mailed to INFO-VAX@SRI.COM [which is inexcusable,
since his receiving his own message confirms that it was sent to the whole
group]), and repost.

As the jackass to whom I'm responding goes on for another 150 lines or so of
the same bullshit, I'll end here.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Carl J Lydick | INTERnet: CARL@SOL1.GPS.CALTECH.EDU | NSI/HEPnet: SOL1::CARL

Disclaimer:  Hey, I understand VAXen and VMS.  That's what I get paid for.  My
understanding of astronomy is purely at the amateur level (or below).  So
unless what I'm saying is directly related to VAX/VMS, don't hold me or my
organization responsible for it.  If it IS related to VAX/VMS, you can try to
hold me responsible for it, but my organization had nothing to do with it.