HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: das@media.mit.edu (David Sheppard)
Subject: Re: The Bird
Organization: MIT Media Laboratory
Date: Fri, 2 Oct 1992 19:51:38 GMT

Someone asked about any problems with giving azzoles "The Bird"...

Yes, I do.  I almost got totalled.  I was driving an old Dodge van
40mph in the left lane of a 35mph 4-lane divided expressway.
Some hotrod azzole crawls up my tail, honking like crazy.  The right
lane was crowded, so I put on my right blinker, slowed down (slowly),
and moved right so he could pass.  As he roared by, I flipped him
the bird, at which point he swerved in front of me and slammed on 
his brakes;  I locked up all 4 wheels of my van and came within 2'
of his bumper.

I hate to think what would have happened had I tangled with this jerk 
and flipped him off IF I WAS ON MY BIKE.  I've had irate mototrists
threaten to pound me to a pulp for no good reason all too often.

--das dave
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.soc
From: guy@slustl.slu.edu (Guy Smith)
Subject: Re: The Bird
Organization: Saint Louis University  Saint Louis, MO
Date: Tue, 29 Sep 1992 17:26:35 GMT

In article <4cz-D6#@engin.umich.edu> Michael F. Kamprath <kamprath@space-grant.sprl.umich.edu> writes:
>traffic signals like stop signs.  Do you all think that my response
>to their irritatingly arogant hink gives bikers a bad rap?
You might want to worry about repetitive motion syndrome? Or maybe simple
tendonitis from overuse:-)
Xref: sparky rec.bicycles.soc:444 rec.bicycles.rides:219 dc.driving:46 dc.general:2471
From: jepstei@afterlife.ncsc.mil (John Epstein)
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.soc,rec.bicycles.rides,dc.driving,dc.general
Subject: Re: Commute, a beautiful morning...
Date: 6 Oct 92 00:53:08 GMT
Organization: The Great Beyond

>Yes, I love the animals I see on my comute.  One day, I came
>quite close to a skunk.  That was fun.  How many netters have
>run into skunks while cycling?
>
>-- 
>Pete Hickey               | Pete@mudhead.uottawa.CA | "If a vegetarian eats
>Communication Services    |   or (if desperate)     |  vegatables, then what
>University of Ottawa      | petehic@uottawa.bitnet  |  does a humanitarian
>Ottawa,Ont. Canada K1N 6N5|  (613) 564-7646         |  eat?"

Does coming within a foot of a very large alligator in the middle of the
road to Flamingo in the Everglades count?  You get to see more animals
if you start cycling when the park first opens in the morning.

BTW: This was last year before the hurricane.  There was no Homestead rally
last year.  I assume there wouldn't be one this March.

John
From: jrdodd@waikato.ac.nz
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.soc
Subject: Re: The Bird
Date: 5 Oct 92 10:33:34 +1300
Organization: University of Waikato, Hamilton, New Zealand

>FROM:   Michael F. Kamprath <kamprath@space-grant.sprl.umich.edu>
>>
>>I have a little ethical dilema here . .  I have noticed that my middle 
>>finger is starting to pop up alot easier lately when cars honk at me, 
> 
> Yes, indeed. Just consider it part of the wonderful all-body exercise 
> you get from cycling. As for the "bad rap", does anybody really believe 
> that motorists would treat us better if *we* were nicer? 
> 
> 
	Why on earth is this insult called "The Bird"?  Down here it's
known as "the finger",  a little less colourful perhaps,  but understandable
anyway...

	Jonathan.

Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.soc
From: CMSC28@maccvm.corp.mot.com (Mark Hickey)
Subject: Ultimate cycling city _ Beijing
Organization: Motorola
Date: 27 Sep 1992 22:56:35 CDT

With all the recent discussion about bike lanes vs. riding on the
road, cycle vs. car interaction, subsidies of auto use, etc., etc.,
ad infinitum... I thought I'd post a little of my experiences in
Beijing so far this week.
If you thought you've seen a "cycling city"... think again!  This
place is *alive* with them!  Rush hour has to be seen to be believed,
with many, many thousand cycles (40 lb. upright cruisers with fenders)
on the way to work, the store, or wherever.  China has obviously
embraced the bicycle as the *primary* means of transportation.  There
is a well-developed system of "bicycle lanes", but they are more
like an alternate roadway, usually divided by a concrete median or
grass area.  The pace is not conducive to training for crits, but
they get through Beijing traffic a *lot faster than the cars*
anyway!  With all the cycles and cars mixing it up at the intersect-
ions, the rules that everyone has been flaming about on the net
really don't apply.  Everyone takes kind of a "I assume you won't
run me down" attitude, and rolls out into traffic... really scary
to someone who is used to the more structured U.S. traffic (I'll
bet you never heard it put that way).  Even so, I have yet to see
any bicycles wedged under cars or trucks.  It all seems to rely
on a system where nobody has an absolute "right" to a piece of
asphalt, but that a little cooperation goes a long way in getting
where you're going..... Wow! What a concept!

I haven't had an opportunity to actually ride over here yet (to
be truthful, I'd be more comfortable on a wet criterium), so I'm
not sure how the aerobic rider would fit in, but given a chance,
I'd like to try.

Moral of the stoy: Bicycles and motor vehicles *can* get along.
Moral 2: Cities can be built to accomodate bicycles as a primary
   means of transportation (the cars have 5-digit license plates).

Mark (what time zone is this) Hickey, P.R.C.

Xref: sparky rec.bicycles.soc:454 rec.bicycles.rides:225 dc.driving:49 dc.general:2477
From: chesnutt@adobe.com (Stan Chesnutt)
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.soc,rec.bicycles.rides,dc.driving,dc.general
Subject: Re: Skunks (was Commute, a beautiful morning...)
Date: 5 Oct 92 20:37:57 GMT
Organization: Tuesday Weld Fan Club

In article <1992Oct5.182506.23004@csi.uottawa.ca> pete@aix1.uottawa.ca (Peter Hickey) writes:
>
>Yes, I love the animals I see on my comute.  One day, I came
>quite close to a skunk.  That was fun.  How many netters have
>run into skunks while cycling?
>

I've never seen one while riding, but one evening I returned from an evening
walk to see a skunk making off with one of my cycling gloves.  Apparently,
the beasties like to chew the salty residue out of shoes, gloves, etc.

I decided not to argue with the skunk.  The glove was found nearby the next
day, somewhat mutilated.

-- 
 -----------------------------------------------------------------------------
 Stan Chesnutt,  Adobe Systems			      chesnutt@mv.us.adobe.com
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.soc,rec.motorcycles,ba.motorcycles
From: markk@tcs.com (Mark Kromer)
Subject: Re: Motorcyclist Hits Bicyclist on Skyline Blvd. (10/4/92, 1:30p)
Originator: markk@sparcplug
Reply-To: markk@tcs.com (Mark Kromer)
Organization: Teknekron Communications Inc.
Date: Tue, 6 Oct 1992 23:34:03 GMT

In article <1992Oct6.033513.19829@iscnvx.lmsc.lockheed.com>, bushnell@iscnvx (William D. Bushnell) writes:

[bunch of stuff deleted but summarized for brevity]

The bicyclist was riding in the middle of the road when a group of
motorcyclists came up from behind.

The motorcyclists swerved to avoid the bicyclist.  The bicycle and one
of the motorcycles collided for some reason.  The bicyclist may have
swerved, or lost control and collided with the motorcycle.  We just
don't know.  The bicyclist hurt his ankle and the motorcyclists helped
him to the hospital.  Unfortunatly the author didn't have a clear view
of the incident.

>Hwy 9, a group of three motorcyclists came zooming by.  The lead motorcyclist
>dressed in a red and white leather suit riding a white motorcycle was holding
>his leg out to the right, bringing his foot to within a foot or two of us.

This could have been a sign to those following to beware.  This signal
is used by racers to tell followers that something is wrong and to
exercise caution.  What you don't realise is that if a motorcyclist
hits a large object even just with his foot the motorcyclist stands a
good chance of crashing and be injured as well.  Think of what it
would feel like to strike something at 60 miles an hour with your
foot!  There are those in rec.moto who have horror stories about
kicking traffic cones.

>First, since the motorcyclist who hit the bicyclist did not identify himself,
>this is a case of hit and run.  

This is true.

>Since the bicyclist was riding lawfully and did not swerve or make any
>other sudden motion in the direction of passing traffic, the
>motorcyclist is clearly at fault.

From what you say in your description you can't make these assumptions.

>Why didn't the first motorcyclist passing the bicyclist pass more gradually to
>give time for his fellow riders to react accordingly?  Why the sudden slice?  I
>would like to think that the incident I witnessed was just an accident and that
>there was no malice on the part of one or more motorcyclists.

The bicyclist did something unexpected.

>Is there a campaign of harassment of bicyclists by motorcyclists going on?  Or
>are there just a few disgruntled renegade motorcyclists out there giving the
>law-abiding motorcyclists a bad image?

The bad image is sponsored by the prejudices of non motorcyclists.

>In this case, and as far as I know, the bicyclist sustained only moderate
>injuries, and his bike suffered at least a busted rear wheel.  But it could
>have been worse.

He should ride more carefully.

A reasoned response by motorcyclist and bicyclist:

--
)V(ark)<               markk@tcs.com                   DoD #400
1988 FZR400 / 1985 ZX900 Ninja / 1977 RD400D / 1991 GT Tequesta
From: Dave Snyder <davesnyder@igc.apc.org>
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.soc
Date: 01 Oct 92 00:09 PDT
Subject: Re: Buses and Bikes - Summary (Long)
Nf-ID: #R:Bv4A6u.2yD@u36.kwnet.on.ca:-316146485:cdp:1702500013:000:551
Nf-From: cdp.UUCP!davesnyder    Oct  1 00:09:00 1992


New Jersey Transit after years of lobbying by Transportation
Alternatives
is running a bikes-on-train trial.  Permit required, limit of two
bikes
per .train.consist., on one line (far from me, haven't tried it).
Also,
someone is suing NJT for not allowing a collapsible bike, which
they purported
to allow.

My own commute would be fairly reasonable as
bike-train-(transfer-)bike.
Otherwise it takes a full hour to go ten miles, I can .ride. that.
My
station bike was stolen last year, no lockers at my rinky-dink
station.

Alex Damman
Morristown, NJ
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.soc
Subject: Re: bike trail info wanted
From: ndrose@husc8.harvard.edu (Nathan Rose)
Date: 28 Sep 92 20:33:45 EDT
Organization: Harvard University Science Center

A couple people have said that the East Coast Greenway is what I was asking
about. Are there maps or directions available to this? In Boston I know of
the path along the river, and one out to bedford, but I'm unaware of anything
leading New york City-wards. Has that part not been built yet?

Nathan Rose
Xref: sparky rec.bicycles.soc:464 rec.motorcycles:34987
From: tjohnson@atcc5.prime.com (Tod J Johnson)
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.soc,rec.motorcycles
Subject: Re: Motorcyclist Hits Bicyclist; Film at 11
Date: 6 Oct 92 20:29:57 GMT
Reply-To: tjohnson@atc1.UUCP (Tod J Johnson)
Organization: Prime Computervision, Bedford MA

Men, Women, Anyone Who Is Fully Clothed;
 
        As a particpant in many activities pertaining to things that are
generally inclined to move ones self from one location to another; let me
say this about this.
 
In my honest, unbiased, unabashed, and certainly well researched opinion;
there is no greater danger than to subject yourself to common everyday
automotive/motorcycle traffic, than while on a bicycle. I mountain bike
every single day that I mountain bike; and occasionally find myself in
need of travelling on the streets(alright I get fuckin lost in the woods
OK!). You may as well have a sign on that sais "Hit Me, I'm Invisible".
It's absolutely night and day compared to riding a motorcycle. I am amazed
that with all the hub-bub about the moto helmet laws, none has been taken
up about bicycles. Whenever I'm given the "motorcycles are so dangerous"
line by some one I challenge them to a ride; them on a bicycle, me on my
FLSTC. First one hit loses. If anyone is stupid enough to take me up on it
I just run them over anyway, but I bet I'de win if I had the patience to 
wait it out. It's nuts out there on bicycles folks. BTW, I wear a bicycle
helmet by choice. I also make a damn fine Pot Roast.
 
Sincerely;

Tod J. Johnson
DoD #883
"Go Slow, Take Geritol, You Got A Compass??"
From: jym@mica.berkeley.edu (Jym Dyer)
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.soc
Subject: Re: Vehicle Detectors, (was: Ticketing illegal cycling)
Date: 30 Sep 92 04:18:17 GMT
	<1346@bridge2.NSD.3Com.COM>
Organization: The Naughty Peahen Party Line
NNTP-Posting-Host: remarque.berkeley.edu
In-reply-to: camerons@NAD.3Com.COM's message of 24 Sep 92 21:58:35 GMT

> Weight sensitive vehicle detectors are rare; look for a solid
> metal plate.  The magnetic variety are much more common here.

=x= It is sometimes possible to trip these off by dismounting
the bike and lying it on its side.  The sensors pick up more
metal that way.

=x= Of course this is no substitute for sensors that would be
triggered by cycling.  Lying your bike on its side in the middle
of the street can be really dangerous.
    <_Jym_>
__
"You can't argue with the vice president, can you?"
    -- William Figueroa, the 12-year-old told by Dan
       Quayle that potato is spelled 'potatoe'.
From: rickd@sequoiasequoia.com (Richard Dienel)
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.soc
Subject: Re: Ticketing illegal cycling
Summary: Seems like bicyclists have the 'minority mentality'
Date: 29 Sep 92 13:31:02 GMT
X-Newsreader: Tin 1.1 PL3

This thread seems to validate the concept that members of a minority
are almost inevitably blamed for any discrimination against them.

Phrases like 'They ask for it', 'They should keep to their own place',
'They shouldn't expect the same rights' are common, both from the 
majority and the oppressed minority. Minority members frequently become
apologists for the majority, telling members of their community that they
should not aggrevate the majority, that the status quo is 'the way things
are'. Members of the community feel powerless to change the behavior of
the majority, thinking that the authorities will not act on their behalf.
Jeremy Rifkin wrote a book examining this set of social mechanisms - I 
think it's called 'Blaming the Victim'

Well, we can change things. We, as a group, must develop effective 
strategies to deal with the abusive or negligent driver (and I don't
mean sharing vengeance fantasies). Here's some that seem to me to be
fairly obvious:

We should never let an accident involving a motor vehicle go unreported,
no matter what the driver's mental state appears to be, or whether the
bicyclist has sustained any physical injury. Stories of legal and
insurance repercussions of bike-auto accidents will do far more to
raise driver awareness than silence.

Many states have 800 numbers to call to report reckless or inebriated
drivers. If you have been endangered by the actions of a driver, get to
a phone if one is available within a reasonable period of time, and
report the vehicle. I know that this can be an additional hassle for the
rider who interrupts his/her ride, and may cause the 'cyclist to file
a report - but imagine if only 10% of the offending drivers saw those
flashing blue or red lights in their rear view mirrors - and learned the
reason was their behavior toward bicycle riders. Maybe they'll think that
hassling riders just isn't worth it.

When we are on the road, we are incredibly vulnerable to the automotive
traffic. This will never change, so long as we must share the pavement
with faster, more massive vehicles. We must adopt survival techniques
similar to the porcupine - attempt to avoid direct confrontation, and 
if confrontation occurs, leave the aggressor with reasons not to mess
with other porcupines(cyclists).

And yes, we should obey the rules of the road. 1 human + 25 lbs of metal
& rubber = 1 vehicle. This places us under the laws that govern the
privilege of using the public roadways. Stop at red lights and stop signs.
Do not pass on the right in the same lane. Signal all turns and lane changes.
Ride sanely.

Any other ideas?

--
Rick Dienel                                           rickd@sequoia.com
Sequoia Systems Inc.
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.soc
From: bchivers@smiley.mitre.org (Brent Chivers)
Subject: Re: HOV abolished!
Organization: The MaiTai Corp, McLean, VA
Date: Mon, 5 Oct 1992 04:47:09 GMT


In article <1992Oct5.014256.14396@cci632.cci.com> tims@cci.com (Tim Sullivan) writes:
 >
 > Please pardon my ignorance, but what is the HOV lane?  Thanks.

To satisfy everyone's curiosity....

We have some highways or highway lanes here (Washington, DC environs)
that are restricted to HOV -- High-Occupancy Vehicle -- traffic during
rush hours, typically 06:30-09:30 inbound, and 16:30-18:30 outbound.
HOV-3 is common, meaning 3 or more people per car.  Motorcycles are
usually permitted too.

The Dulles Access Highway is an expressway to the Dulles Airport.  Of
particular note, heading out to Dulles, there are NO exit ramps -- you
must go all the way to the airport.  Going from the airport towards
Washington, there are NO entrance ramps.  You get on this road only at
the airport.  2 lanes each way, and the traffic is light.  Flanking the
Dulles Access Highway is the Toll Road.  Lots of on/off ramps, to serve
the people and businesses along the access corridor.  No tolls on the
(interior) Dulles Access Highway, but you can only go to/from the
airport.  Occasional $.25 or $.50 toll plazas on the toll road.

The toll road was recently widened from 2 lanes each way to 3.  The
construction was an inconvenience, but then things were blissful
when the new lanes were opened.  September 1, HOV restrictions started
on the toll road's new third lanes, and the rush-hour congestion was
terrible.  The congestion delays were clearly wasting more resources
than HOV was intended to save (and no doubt costing lost toll revenues
as well, as people looked for alternate routes).  Lots of unhappy
citizens/taxpayers/voters, and lots of noise.  And in this one case,
the HOV was ended.

FYI, the Toll Road connects to I-66, which heads into Washington DC.
I-66 is HOV-3 from the beltway (I-495) all the way in, so this relaxation
of HOV on the toll road is of greatest benefit to people who work in the
rapidly-developing areas along the Dulles-access corridor.  People who
work downtown still need to carpool or stagger their hours to take I-66
all the way in.

[This is all from co-workers, news reports,
and net postings, since I walk to work.  ;-)]

We now return you to postings about bicycles!
-- 
______________________________________________________________________

Brent Chivers		McLean, VA		bchivers@mitre.org
From: you@taligent.com (Lawrence You)
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.soc
Subject: Look out for that....
Date: 7 Oct 92 01:24:53 GMT
Followup-To: rec.bicycles.soc
Organization: Taligent, Inc.

Recently I was riding down the bike lane of a busy street at night while
riding home from work in Cupertino, California.  I had my headlight,
Vistalite, helmet, gloves--the usual commute equipment.  I collided with
another bicyclist head-on, slightly off-center and I was probably doing
over 20 MPH.  The other rider had no lights and no helmet.  I was only
slightly bruised and the other rider was OK; my bike was slightly scratched
and the other rider tacoed his front wheel.*

Another few blocks away another bicyclist approached on the wrong side of
the street, again, no helmet, no lights.  This time I yelled "hey, get a
light!" and the other rider swore at me.

Within the last few days I've noticed lots of bicyclists doing the same
thing: no lights, no helmet, wrong side of the street.

Be careful out there.  Those bicycle-bicycle accident statistics make more
sense to me now.  No need to add to the bicycle-auto accident stats,
either.

I think there must be a few factors involved in this recent trend,
including:
1. Summer has quickly turned to fall; it gets dark pretty early,
   and even earlier with each passing evening.

2. All of these riders were young, i.e. high school or younger; maybe
   they rode through the summer and are continuing to ride after
   school, but the lighting has changed and their habits haven't.

3. There is no one to tell them that they are endangering themselves
   and others unnecessarily; if I were a cop, I'd stop each one for
   at least a warning.

4. Not necessarily having driving experience, they don't realize
   that it may be really difficult to see them on their bikes
   even though they can see just fine.

5. Helmets are still not being worn by kids.

6. Riding on the wrong side of the street is no big deal.  To them, a
   bike lane is a bike lane.

-Lawrence

*  After we got up off the ground, I asked other other rider what he
thought he was doing.  He shot back "what do you think YOU'RE doing?"  I
said "hey, look, I'm riding home in the bike lane, minding my business and
I couldn't see you."  He says: "well, I couldn't see you either."  What a
jerk!  And with that little crash, I will no longer use the crappy little
girlyman Cateye HL-500 in its standard microwattage form.


you@taligent.com
From: plutchak@pilsner.geo.brown.edu (Joel Plutchak)
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.soc
Subject: Re: The Bird
Date: 1 Oct 1992 13:49:23 GMT
Organization: Brown University Planetary Geology
NNTP-Posting-Host: pilsner.geo.brown.edu

In article <2926957193.8.p00004@psilink.com> "Michael Smith" <p00004@psilink.com> writes:
>Yes, indeed. Just consider it part of the wonderful all-body exercise 
>you get from cycling. As for the "bad rap", does anybody really believe 
>that motorists would treat us better if *we* were nicer? 

   For me, it's less a question of being "nice" than of not being
obnoxious.  I'm pretty much convinced that good, lawful, socially
beneficial behavior is neither rewarded nor even noticed (except
possibly by other good, lawful, socially beneficial people who aren't
part of the problem to begin with :-).  I'm just as convinced, however,
that bad, unlawful, socially disruptive actions *will* be noticed
and remembered.  As a cyclist, I think it's in all of our best
interests to neither cave in to the pressure of intolerant motorists,
nor to actively seek to foster ill-feeling.  I attempt to cycle
assertively (*not* aggressively) yet legally, with safety being the
prime factor.
   Just for fun, put it into Cold War terms:  Given two nuclear superpowers,
what would happen if one decided to chuck its weaponry and armed forces
and become the largest flower-producing nation in the world?  OK, got a
mental picture of that?  Now purge that one, and imagine what happens
if one superpower deliberately plowed over all the rules of Cold War
diplomacy, and escalated minor situations at every opportunity.  Got
it?  Either way doesn't sound like too much fun. :-)
--
Joel Plutchak, Research Programmer/Analyst