From: cpbeaure@undergrad.math.waterloo.edu (Chris Beauregard)
Subject: Re: Anyone Heard of Rifts
Organization: University of Waterloo
Date: Wed, 29 Jul 1992 16:13:47 GMT

In article <Les_Jenkins.03bw@lppl.mi.org> Les_Jenkins@lppl.mi.org (Les Jenkins) writes:
>In a message dated Sun 26 Jul 92  3:09,
>cpbeaure@undergrad.math.waterloo.edu (Chris Beauregard) wrote:
> CB> - Usual Pallidium game system.  Yawn.  As usual, it turns into a
> CB> points war, as players try to extract every bit of skills, armor,
> CB> weapons, etc, that they possibly can.  The sheer destructive
> CB> capabilities of the hardware in the game didn't help all that much.
>
>Like the same thing doesn't happen in the average AD&D game either. Every
>AD&D game I've been in has been a rush for XP and Spells and Treasure and
>Magic Items. 

Did I need to mention AD&D was munchkin?

>As for the sheer destructive capabilities of the hardware, well, thats one
>of my favorite things about the game. Makes for a lot of role playing
>potential when a player accidently blows away the NPCs he needs to finish
>the adventure, or worse yet, the NPCs who are related to the king they are
>dealing with.

That's nice, I guess.  The problem is that if you give someone large and
powerful gadgets, they gotta use them (at least in my experience - maybe
I have bad experience...)  The rather anarchistic background of RIFTS
leads to too many cases of people walking around with a might makes
right outlook.  If the opposition needs a small army to eliminate
players, then either the GM needs to create a lot of small armies,
create munchkin enemies (not hard, just gate a new baddy in sometime..),
or fudge the players to death.  The problem, I guess, is that you have a
hard time putting _subtle_ controls on PCs.

> CB> Full conversion Borgs should not be PCs, IMHO.  Ditto for Glitter
> CB> Boys.  My personal suggestion was to ignore the MDC/SDC distinction,
> CB> and have all weapons in the same damage system.  Not _really_
> CB> realistic (although not much father out that a guy in MDC chain mail
> CB> being immune to a 20mm cannon, or whatever) but much, much more fun.
>
>Why do you feel that Full Conversion Borgs and Glitter Boys should not be
>allowed as PCs? As for ignoring the MDC/SDC distinction, the rules state

I've found that in too many cases they lead to a typical AD&D fighter
attitude.  Kill until dead.  Face it.  A Glitter Boy is too often just a
walking tank.  A Borg is a walking tank.  In fact, just about any
character in powered armor or heavy MDC armor is a walking tank.

>that you may do so if you wish and provides rules for converting MDC to SDC
>damage. Personally I think doing this subtracts from the game though.

Well, my suggestion to the DM at the time was not "convert the damage".
It was drop the distinction.  Find everything in the book that has the
characters "MDC" and "SDC" and erase them.  So your knife does say 1d4
points of <blank> damage, and your vibro-knife does say 2d4 points of
<blank> damage.  Not 1d4 SDC and 2d4 MDC or 2d4*100 SDC.  'Scuze the
damage values, I haven't played in a very long time.  

The point of doing this was to, well, even things out a lot.  PCs could
then worry about things like townspeople and their shotguns, primitive
tribes with spears, that sort of thing.  And the small army previously
mentioned can become a more commonplace posse or lynch mob, or maybe a
guy with an ancient Gatling and good terrain...

> CB> The again, I'm a fan of _The_Last_Stand_of_the_DNA_Cowboys_, so I was
> CB> wanting to capture the spirit of the book...which I find the game
> CB> really ressembles...
>
>Never read it so I can't comment.

Read it.  Worth every little bit.  If you're a RIFTS GM, you should pick
up a few ideas.

Capsule Review:  The earth of the future has more or less dissolved
(literally) into separated pockets of space.  These little spaces (the
biggest is maybe the size of a city) have dissolved into almost anarchy.
(the book covers the last bit into total anarchy).  The prime characters
in the story are three old friends who notice that things are going down
the drain wuick, and happen to meet up in a bar.  They get together and
basically try to survive the last little while.  The writing's pretty
good, lots of nifty technological gadgets, and plenty, and I mean
plenty, of ideas.  [Sorry, I'm not a professional at reviews, that's
just my impression of the book.]

> CB> In summary, great game, lends itself to munchkinism _really_ well.
>
>So do half of the rest of the RPGs out there. It's up to the GM to avoid

Yes, but this one is almost tailor made for munchkin campaigns.  Most
games, it's a little harder to do that sort of thing.  Beginning
characters normally cannot destroy small towns.

>======================================================================
>E-Mail to:      | "Stimpy, sometimes your wealth of ignorance simply |
>Les@lppl.mi.org |  astounds me." - Ren Hoek                          |
>----------------+-----------------------------------------------------

Chris Beauregard                                cpbeaure@cayley.waterloo.edu
Differently Expressed:  The politically correct term for politically
correct people.
Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.misc