HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: "curtis repen" <curtis.repen@canrem.com>
Newsgroups: rec.autos.sport
Subject: shitty topics
Date: 15 Apr 92 15:37:13 EST
Reply-To: "curtis repen" <curtis.repen@canrem.com>
Distribution: rec
Organization: Canada Remote Systems

In article : <1992Apr13.211405.29841@lsil.com>
        in : rec.autos.sport
             mitch@dc49.dc (Mitch Sako) writes:

MS>In article 16739#ux1.cso.uiuc.edu, tvp53202@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (Toby Vaughn Padfield) writes:
>I would like to formally declare the subjects of water injection,
>the power requirements for William's reactive suspension, Who is faster than
>whom among the driver's, and why Shell, Agip, Elf, et al, have toxic fuels
>for there respective teams, as off limits, due to the fact that these four
>topics are quite boring!!!!! Doesn't anybody out there have anything else
>better to talk about? As for all of the flames I am about to receive, all
>I can say is I am tired of these being the only topics of discussion.


MS>Well, if you aren't interested in things like that then I suggest you
MS>cease participating in this newsgroup.

  Hey, Mitch, guess what?  I *agree* with you!

  Scary thought, that :-)

  Seriously, Toby, if you don't like 'em, skip 'em.

  ObAutoSport:
  Does anyone know what's happened to John Berton? His reports last year
  were a tremendous service to this group: especially those of us
  without VCRs, in countries where the ^%$&@# TV networks rate autosport
  coverage as being less important that underwater lawn-bowling.

  Is there something wrong with my feed, or is he no longer posting his
  race summaries?

  If he has posted summaries this year, could someone please mail them
  to me, while I try and figure out what the &%^$ is wrong with my news
  feed *this time*.

  keep revvin',
    curtis

  ---------------------------------------------------------------------
  Opinions expressed above are not those of my employer.  In fact, they
  ain't even mine.  I got 'em off the back of a (fnord) Fruit Loops box.
  curtis.repen@canrem.com        Senna !!!     Vancouver   Go Leafs, Go!
  repen#controls.husky.on.ca      __ o___-=     Canucks    And take Bob
  repen@redline.(fnord)uucp     _/o-`==O/       in '92!    Rae with you!

 * DeLuxe2 1.20 #437 * 
--
Canada Remote Systems  - Toronto, Ontario/Detroit, MI
World's Largest PCBOARD System - 416-629-7000/629-7044
From: arm@canctr.mc.duke.edu
Newsgroups: rec.autos.sport
Subject: Re: Senna-sux (c)
Date: 14 Apr 92 19:48:29 GMT
Reply-To: arm@canctr.mc.duke.edu
Organization: Duke U. Med. Ctr., Durham, NC

In article <1992Apr13.030501.4886@samba.oit.unc.edu>, Jyri.Virkki@bbs.oit.unc.edu (Jyri Virkki) writes:
>In article <1992Apr6.175047.4778@lsil.com> mitch@lsil.com writes:
>>Anyone figure out what happenned to Senna in Brazil.  The arrogant jerk
>>refused an interview I guess.  

     That it is not correct. Although he refused to talk 
     with the general press, he gave an interview to the
     GLOBO TV , the leading brazilian network. Senna said
     that the new McLaren "was having serious miss firing
     problems and that it felt as if he was breaking; in
     fact I raised my arms several times to let other 
     drivers know that he he was having problems".He stoped
     because he almost went off three times in the laranjinha 
     sector of interlargos. He continued to talk very bad of 
     the MP4/7: "The chassi is bad in both high and low speed,
     the engine does not have enough power, the gear box system
     satisfactory."   Further, he said that that "the Williams
     are in fact a new genaration of F1 cars--They are in another
     planet".  When asked if he would move to the Williams if Frank 
     repeatthe offer he maid at the end of the 91 season, Ayrton
     said that he would go and compete with Nigel in the next GP
     If it was at all possible...
       

  Nobody seemed to say what was the problem.
>>He appeared to be going backwards for awhile before quitting.  Was he using
>>the Integra or the new car?  

     Vide the above.
>>---
>
>Apparently he was simply not emotionally capable of withstanding the
>fact that he was being blown away, since he is not used to that.
>Thus, he gave up. 

     He gave up  to avoid an accident .
>
>Pinto

GO BLUE DEVILS    2X NATIONAL CHAMPS    GO DUKE
Newsgroups: rec.autos.sport
From: golchowy@alchemy.chem.utoronto.ca (Gerald Olchowy)
Subject: Re: Grand Prix of Long Beach Results, PPG IndyCar Points Standings
Organization: University of Toronto Chemistry Department
Date: Tue, 14 Apr 1992 15:31:08 GMT

In article <7031951712508@c00476-224wi.eos.ncsu.edu> jcsmith@eos.ncsu.edu (Jay C. Smith) writes:
>
>Okay, Mario-bashing comes up in this newsgroup again, with recounting of
>last year's Detroit incident and the one at Toronto a few years back.  So
>what does Mario do?  He runs right over Eddie Cheever's right rear tire on
>the first lap, taking both cars out of the race.  Sheesh!
>

Mario takes out at least one guy a race...he took out Scott Goodyear in
Phoenix...             

Gerald
From: bruman@thetap.EBay.Sun.COM (Bruce Elkin)
Newsgroups: rec.autos.sport
Subject: F1 Challenge to Williams
Date: 9 Apr 92 18:23:04 GMT
Reply-To: bruman@thetap.EBay.Sun.COM (Bruce Elkin)
Organization: Sun Microsystems, Inc.  Mt. View, Ca.
NNTP-Posting-Host: thetap.ebay.sun.com


Thomas Cohen writes:

>> "Williams GPE are firmly on top for now, and to dislodge them is 
            more likely to come from Benetton than McLaren."

     Sure hope you're right !!!         Go Benetton-Ford !!!

   I'm really tired of McLaren & Williams winning every race.
   Gee, I wonder if Mansell could win again if Schumacher were his team mate?

                  ---------------------------------------

Anybody have any info. on what is going on at Benetton recently.

          Heard anything about Benetton's new chassis?

      When will it debut?

          Is it designed to hold the V12 Ford?

      When can we expect Benetton to start using the V12 engine?

          Heard any performance numbers for the V12?

                  ---------------------------------------

PS. THANKS to the poster of the F1 Tracks synopsis, anybody care to attempt
diagrams of these tracks?

                                     Bruce "Ford Power" Elkin

    Keep'm guessing: "Change your image like you change your socks"
From: wilson@mailhost.aa.cad.slb.com (David Wilson)
Newsgroups: rec.autos.sport
Subject: Re: Mclaren Throttle/Ron Dennis
Keywords: RON DENNIS BITES
Date: 23 Mar 92 17:25:05 GMT
Organization: Schlumberger CAD/CAM; Ann Arbor, Michigan (USA)

[lots of replies and counter replies deleted ...]

Initially I was a bit indifferent to the issue of racing from flag to flag
versus the odd full course yellow, which is what (I guess) Ron Dennis was
criticizing.  Then, I watched this weekends CART and F1 races.  (I'll avoid
spoilers -- no mention of who won follows).

The CART race had two full course yellow early on, just to tow in disabled
cars!  Sitting and watching the field bunched up and droning  around after
the pace car made me suddenly realize just how amateurish that is.  It is
very peculiar that a series can be run in such a bush-league fashion, while
at the same time having two of the hottest drivers to come along in years,
in my opinion (of course  I mean Al Jr. and Michael).

By contrast, the F1 race had some midfield carnage on the start, and plenty
of spins and failures later, without ever requiring the leaders to miss a
beat.  I guess it really does come down to racing versus entertainment.
I would rather watch a stunning performance by the leader, even if that
sometimes means he steadily drives off  into the distance like Nigel did
in S. Africa, then see such an effort artificially stripped away to
manufacture a ``thrilling'' close finish.

I can accept that the Indy 500, or any 500 mile race for that matter, is
a different kind of competition, involving a lot of tactics and factors
apart from pure performance on the track.  A road course event less than
two hours long, however, should be a straight fight between drivers/cars.

Dave Wilson
Newsgroups: rec.autos.sport
From: deanb@pecan10.cray.com (Dean Barker)
Subject: NASCAR: The Winston lineup
Originator: deanb@pecan10
Organization: Cray Research, Inc.
Date: 13 Apr 92 13:32:13 CDT





As I understand it these are the criteria for being eligible for "The Winston".

1) A driver who won a race last year or this year (through Talledega).

2) A car owner who won a race last year or this year (through Talladega).

3) A driver who is a former winner of "The Winston".

4) A driver who is a former Winston Cup Champion.

5) The winner of the Winston Open.

6) If the field is still less than 20, fill in the remaining positions from the
   next highest finishers in the Winston Open.


If I am correct, then these are the qualifiers so far for this years "Winston".

   Qualifier - Reason for qualifying
   ---------------------------------
1.  Allison - Daytona, Charlotte, Sears Pt., Michigan, Rockingham, Phoenix, 
		Daytona, N. Wilkesboro
2.  Earnhardt - Richmond, Martinsville, Talladega, N. Wilkesboro
3.  K. Petty - Rockingham
4.  Schrader - Atlanta, Dover
5.  Rudd - Darlington
6.  R. Wallace - Bristol, Pocono
7.  D. Waltrip - N. Wilkesboro, Pocono
8.  Gant - Talladega, Darlington, Richmond, Dover, Martinsville
9.  Elliott - Daytona, Rockingham, Richmond, Atlanta, Darlington
10. Irvan - Watkins Glen
11. Jarrett - Michigan
12. Kulwicki - Bristol, Bristol
13. G. Bodine - Charlotte
14. Martin - Atlanta
15. Melling Racing (Mader?) - Daytona w/Elliott
16. Wood Bros. Racing (Shepherd) - Michigan w/Jarrett
17. T. Labonte - former winner of "The Winston"
18. R. Petty - former Winston Cup Champion
19. Winner of the Winston Open
20. OPEN

-Dean
From: curtisj@cae.wisc.edu (Curtis Jacobsen)
Newsgroups: rec.autos.sport
Subject: Earnhardt at N. Wilkesboro
Date: 13 Apr 92 16:27:17 GMT
Article-I.D.: doug.1992Apr13.112718.12830
Organization: College of Engineering, Univ. of Wisconsin-Madison

Well, it looked like Earnhardt was back to his strong arm tactics again.

All one had to do was look at the side of his car......he almost had is
white 3 covered with tire marks.

First giving Trickle a good whap in the ass, causing Trickle to fall
back a few positions.

And then his big bout with Wallace, sure the fans loved it, but it did
neither one of them any good to be trading paint while the leader walked
away.

-Curt
Newsgroups: rec.autos.sport
From: b609zbt@utarlg.uta.edu (GEORGE M. SMILEY)
Subject: Re: Full Course Yellows in F1 , plus a bonus flame of NASCAR
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41    
Keywords: THIS GROUP NEEDS MORE NASCAR FLAMES  
Organization: The University of Texas at Arlington
Date: Wed, 8 Apr 1992 02:32:00 GMT

In article <44267@mentor.cc.purdue.edu>
 dil@mace.cc.purdue.edu (Perry G Ramsey) writes...

>In article <kdsQice00Uh702oKsP@andrew.cmu.edu>
 cl3d+@andrew.cmu.edu (Carl D. Lovejoy) writes:

>>			Andrew  Henry writes:

>>[Why he thinks full course yellows should be used in F1]
>>
>>Local yellows are just fine, we don't need no stinkin' full course yellows!  

> 
>They're about the only thing interesting about F1.  Contrary to widely
>held belief, the real race fan doens't need split second finishes to find
>the race interesting.  Often the full course yellow kills what is shaping
>up to be a good race by giving a car coming on at the end a free pass to
>the front.  Instead of seeing #2 charging hard and #1 struggling to hang
>on, we see #2 dash ahead after the yellow and stay out front.
>  
1000X no,
When has this happened lately(in CART), certainly not this year. I view it
this way, if someone has an advantage that has allowed them to pull out a
large lead then, irregardless of a yellow flag, he will still have that
advantage. They could of had a 1000 yellow flags a Phoenix and Rahal still
would of stomped. They *should* have a 1000 yellow flags in F1 and Mansell
still will roll. Why do you think the F1 big shots got together to talk
about making F1 more entertaining(via yellow flags and/or mandatory pit
stops) ?  They can see where the future is. Besides, full course yellow flags
make the racing safer and F1 is just one bad accident from seriously 
adopting full course yellows. It would be interesting to hear the F1 drivers
view on this, after all it is there life on the line. Too bad, ESPN killed
'Ask the Driver.' While we are on the subject of safety, when is CART going
to mandate sand traps around race courses ? IMSA, as well. Sand traps are
the biggest improvement in safety over the last few years and it high time
American sanctioning bodies took notice .

George.
From: danjones@pyrps5.eng.pyramid.com (Dan Jones)
Newsgroups: rec.autos.sport
Subject: Please Mario, its time!
Date: 15 Apr 92 05:57:11 GMT
Organization: Pyramid Technology Corporation, Mountain View

I have never liked Mario because I thought he was pompous, but I did respect
his great talent.  AJ and the King have mellowed in age and know their
limitations, but not Mario.  Its always sad to see a great sportsman fall, but
if Mario ever injures himself or someone else, that's really going to be sad.

Get a clue Mario, retire now, don't try to wait until the end of '93!

Dan Jones
From: danjones@pyrps5.eng.pyramid.com (Dan Jones)
Newsgroups: rec.autos.sport
Subject: Andretti bashing by Cheever
Date: 15 Apr 92 06:30:11 GMT
Organization: Pyramid Technology Corporation, Mountain View

So what happened at Long Beach?  Last season I must remember at least
three times that he bashed the various Andrettis during interviews.  On
Sunday he had the perfect opportunity and mentioned little.  Any theories?

Dan Jones
Newsgroups: rec.autos.sport
Subject: Re: F1:Magic fuels and more...
From: tfarmer@datamark.co.nz (Thomas Farmer)
Date: Wed, 15 Apr 1992 04:56:37 GMT
Organization: Datamark International Ltd.

In article <1992Apr11.152109.27802@wes.on.ca> tomh@wes.on.ca (Tom Haapanen) writes:
>altsourinaki@vaxsar.vassar.edu (Alex Tsourinakis) writes:
>> I really don't think that banning exotic fuels is the way to go in F1.
>> First of all, Shell, Elf, Agip and Mobil would have no reason to spend the
>> millions that they invest every year, not only in research and production,
>> but also in sponsorship fees for the big guys in F1 [...]
>
>You forget that the big oil companies also produce engine and gearbox oils
>for F1.  That and the exposure would surely be sufficient reason for most
>of them to continue at least some level of sponsorship.  It was enough, too,
>even just a few years ago before the advent of fuel development.

More to the point...
 
How is Marlboro related to racing cars? They still seem to manage to
sponsor Formula 1.

-- 
Thomas Farmer      | tfarmer@cavebbs.gen.nz | I need an apartment!
Datamark Intl Ltd  | tfarmer@datamark.co.nz | +64-4-233-8186 (work)
Technical Writer & Dos M/Wrangler           | Love is a warm beagle.
From: iong@madvax.uop.edu (Iu-Jin Ong)
Newsgroups: rec.autos.sport
Subject: Williams FW15
Date: 15 Apr 1992 00:15:33 UTC
Reply-To: iong@madvax.uop.edu
Organization: University of the Pacific, Stockton, CA

Hello world......

  I just got off the Compuserve motorsports network where I read a very
interesting rumour that the new Williams FW15 will feature, among other
things, ABS and a fully automatic gearbox!!!

  The ABS rumour was reported by *two* Japanese sources, although they
conflicted as to when the new car would be released. One said the upcoming
Spanish GP, while another the British GP.

  Anyone here able to substantiate these? I certainly hope so......

IU-JIN

**** MANSELL FOR CHAMPION - FINALLY ****
Newsgroups: rec.autos.sport
From: cornutt@lambda.msfc.nasa.gov (David Cornutt)
Subject: Re: "Salt" Walther arrested
Organization: NASA/MSFC
Date: Mon, 6 Apr 1992 20:53:27 GMT

wilson@mailhost.aa.cad.slb.com (David Wilson) writes:

>Walther has certainly had a rough time, what with being burned badly,
>and the aftereffects.  I am not going to jump to any conclusions about
>the man based on what one of the stinking media prostitutes has to
>say.  I agree with you: it makes me sick to.

Hmmm... I guess the facts of the case remain to be seen, but there
are these two things:

1. David Walther was not only burned in that accident (the 1973 Indy
start-of-race accident), but several fans were seriously injured.
And remember, this was just one incident in what turned out to be one
of the most sickening motor sports events ever run, one that brought
the sport lots of bad press at a time when it didn't need it in the
least.  Walther was pretty much persona non grata in most racing
circles after this incident, and remains so today, even though he
was only partially to blame in one of a string of incidents.

2. David's brother Skip was killed in a hydroplane accident several
years ago.
From: JFS10@psuvm.psu.edu (Jonathan Swaby)
Newsgroups: rec.autos.sport
Subject: Re: Long Beach - Mario
Date: 17 Apr 92 12:59:56 GMT
Organization: Penn State University

In article <1992Apr17.122938.25344@cbnewsm.cb.att.com>, garr@cbnewsm.cb.att.com
(guido.a.rijo) says:

>>Does anyone think that Mario was one of the worlds great drivers? I don't
>>think he was.

>This is garbage. I agree that it was Mario's fault at LB. He should be
>more carefull. At the same time, how can you say that he is not is not
>one of the best drivers, look at his list of accomplishments. Did you
>watch Speedweek at the end of last season when they asked the commentators
>who they thought was the best driver including all different forms of racing?,
>David Hobbs said Mario, yes Mario.
>Are there any of his contemporaries that is faster than him at the moment?.
>Accident happen, or do you think Mario wanted to take Eddie and himself out
>of the race at the beginning of the race. Don't you remember that Al Jr,
>took Mario out the LB race a couple of years ago. Should Al Jr. have
>retired because of that, NO WAY, I've enjoyed watching him drive since
>then.

>Mario is not as fast as the new generation of drivers, but he is still
>competitive. There are many other good drivers that have not won in
>a long time.

>Just think of all the glory an recognition that Mario has brought to
>the sport and the country over the years. Maybe if he had been born
>here and had a better accent we would treat him different.
No this is garbage. Its not just this one incident. It is several.
How 'bout last year when he ran into the back of the safety truck.
In addition, Mario always blames someone else. He is never at fault. If
Little Al crashes into you he will takes the blame. Mario thinks he is
perfect. NOT! He was not one of the great F1 drivers nor Group C drivers.
When it come to indy cars, I guess I would rate him in the top 10. IMHO
both Bobby an Al Sr. were better drivers. Rick Mears should be listed
as perhaps the best IndyCar driver. The fans like him and he can win
on the ovals as well as the road courses.

Jonathan Swaby
Newsgroups: rec.autos.sport
From: ldahlmey@zia.aoc.nrao.edu (Lothar Dahlmeyer)
Subject: Re: NASCAR WC schedule
Organization: National Radio Astronomy Observatory, Socorro NM
Date: Tue, 14 Apr 92 22:55:09 GMT

In article <1992Apr14.124659.20773@hemlock.cray.com> deanb@pecan10.cray.com (Dean Barker) writes:
>
>
>		1992 NASCAR Winston Cup Schedule
>
>DATE	SITE			WINNER/TV		PTS. LEADER
>------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>2/8	Busch Clash (Daytona)	G. Bodine		-----------
>2/16 	Daytona, FL		D. Allison		D. Allison (+10)
>3/1	Rockingham, NC		B. Elliott		D. Allison (+56)
>3/8	Richmond, VA		B. Elliott		D. Allison (+63)
>3/15	Atlanta, GA		B. Elliott		D. Allison (+58)
>3/29	Darlington, SC		B. Elliott		D. Allison (+48)
>4/5	Bristol, TN		A. Kulwicki		D. Allison (+29)
>4/12	North Wilkesboro, NC	D. Allison		D. Allison (+86)
>4/26	Martinsville, VA	ESPN-TD
>5/3	Talladega, AL		ESPN-L
>5/16	The Winston (Charlotte)	TNN-L
>5/24	Charlotte, NC		TBS-L
>5/31	Dover, DE		TNN-L
>6/7	Sears Point, CA		ESPN-L
>6/14	Pocono, PA		ESPN-L
>6/21	Brooklyn, MI		CBS-L
>7/4	Daytona, FL		ESPN-L
>7/19	Pocono, PA		ESPN-L
>7/26	Talladega, AL		CBS-L
>8/9	Watkins Glen, NY	ESPN-L
>8/16	Brooklyn, MI		ESPN-L
>8/29	Bristol, TN		ESPN-L
>9/6	Darlington, SC		ESPN-L	
>9/12	Richmond, VA		TBS-L
>9/20	Dover, DE		TNN-L
>9/27	Martinsville, VA	ESPN-L
>10/4	North Wilkesboro, NC	ESPN-L
>10/11	Charlotte, NC		TBS-L
>10/25	Rockingham, NC		TNN-L
>11/1	Phoenix, AZ		TNN-L
>11/15	Atlanta, GA		ESPN-L

Concerning the coverage of the race at Martinsville:

I thought I heared and saw on ESPN that they will broadcast the race
tape-delayed on MONDAY the 27th in the evening sometime.
Can anybody confirm this?

-- 
            /MMMMMMMMMMM\             | ldahlmey@zia.aoc.nrao.edu 
          {|  /\  ~  /\  |}           | Lothar Dahlmeyer  
______nnnn_|_|_@|   |_@|_|_nnnn_______| National Radio Astronomy Observatory
      UUUU       \_/       UUUU       | Socorro, New Mexico, 87801
From: winalski@tle.enet.dec.com (Paul S. Winalski)
Newsgroups: rec.autos.sport
Subject: RE: Mario, Mario, ..... Danny, Danny .....
Date: 15 Apr 92 17:42:08 GMT
Reply-To: winalski@tle.enet.dec.com (Paul S. Winalski)
Organization: Digital Equipment Corporation, Nashua NH


In article <14APR199220495510@zeus.tamu.edu>,
pmh2962@zeus.tamu.edu (Pat Hayes) writes:
|>
|>Howdy!
|>	A lot of hollerin' about Mario's poke on Cheever.  What <from a
|>guy who forgot to SUBTRACT an hour from EDT - rats!> was the big
|>difference between what Mario did and what Danny did to Al Unser?
|>	Inquiring minds want to know ....

The Sullivan/Unser incident is a fairly close one to call.  I could argue that
one either way.  The Andretti/Cheever incident wasn't even close.  Mario
was behind Eddie, but gaining on him, moved outward to avoid the wall,
and clipped Eddie's right rear wheel.  Cheever held a steady line throughout
the incident, as the camera replay clearly showed.  The only possible excuse
for that incident was some equipment failure on Mario's part.  Indeed, I think
the component that failed is the gray matter between Mario's ears (or maybe
that should be between his buttocks?).

--PSW
Newsgroups: rec.autos.sport
From: lgb@cray.com (Larry Briski)
Subject: Re: When Will Mopar Return????
Keywords: GOBS
Organization: Cray Research, Inc.
Date: 10 Apr 92 20:37:55 CDT

In article <17s1iB1w164w@ziggys.cts.com> helen@ziggys.cts.com (Helen of Troy) writes:
>I was wondering when Mopar will return to Nascar.... I know they don't 
>have a car to fit the requirements, but it really bums me out.  Nascar is 
>practically a Chevy & Ford race (practically), but I think if Mopars 
>returned there would be a greater excitement in Nascar.  Anyone out there 
>wish to speculate on this?.... 
>
>P.S.
>Until Mopar Returns Make Mine FORD.
>                        
>                                Linda

In an interview reported by AUTOWEEK magazine the chief in charge of MOPAR
auto competition, whose name escapes me, downplayed the idea of MOPAR
returning to NASCAR under the present rules.  His comments were something to
the effect that the current rules didn't pose any real challenges to his
engineers.  He then expressed interest in IndyCar racing as being where
MOPAR may find a future in racing.

You should note that the newest MOPAR factory sponsored team is the Archer
Bros. entry into Trans-Am.  There is at least one team in ARCA that is racing
Chrysler products, quite successfully I may add, and that is the 
Kawzelowski(sp?) team that is from Michigan(?).  I haven't heard what, if any,
support they may be getting from Chrysler.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Lawrence Briski                  |   "If at first you don't succeed, try,
    Cray Research Inc.               |  try again; then quit--there's no sense
    Chippewa Falls, WI  54729        |  in being a damn fool about it."
    lawrence.briski@cray.com         |                   W.C. Fields
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
      The opinions expressed here are mine, CRI sure doesn't want to take
                      responsibility for my blathering.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------