HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: mike@gordian.com (Michael A. Thomas)
Subject: Re: BAR Manners in Boston....
Organization: Gordian; Costa Mesa, CA
Date: Tue, 5 Jan 1993 21:41:23 GMT

In article <1993Jan5.201108.19840@spdcc.com>, rdonahue@spdcc.com (Bob Donahue) writes:
> mike@gordian.com (Michael A. Thomas) writes:
> >  Does this apply to Bostonian's legendary driving abilities as well?
> 
> 	Of course!  Do you realize how many years it
> takes to perfect proper Bostonian driving form?!

  Can I guess using negative numbers?
-- 

		Michael Thomas	(mike@gordian.com)
	"I don't think Bambi Eyes will get you that flame thrower..."  
		-- Hobbes to Calvin
		USnail: 20361 Irvine Ave Santa Ana Heights, Ca,	92707-5637
		PaBell: (714) 850-0205 (714) 850-0533 (fax)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: thaaang@cwis.unomaha.edu (John Dorrance)
Subject: Re: Soc.motss: The Color Version
Organization: University of Nebraska at Omaha
Date: Fri, 8 Jan 1993 12:28:07 GMT

jns@elea.umd.edu (J. N. Shaumeyer) writes:


>Jess Anderson (anderson@macc.wisc.edu) wrote:
> 
>> thaaang@cwis.unomaha.edu (John Dorrance) writes:
>> 
>> >Woah, I'm slow...
>>  ^^^^ 
>> Yup.  But cute.

(flatterer, I may have to fuck you...)

>Jahowl!  

>That's our boy!

Dad! So quiet lately...

--
thaaang@cwis.unomaha.edu * John Dorrance * Disco Diva y Flamenco Chico
      You would be surprised at what resides in your insides.
	  S7/9 g++l+(+)y++z++/--(++!!!)o+(+)x+a++uv(++)j+
From: mike@gordian.com (Michael A. Thomas)
Subject: Re: Year of the Queer
Organization: Gordian; Costa Mesa, CA
Date: Tue, 5 Jan 1993 22:57:14 GMT

In article <1993Jan5.220048.18626@PacBell.COM>, rjwill6@pbsdts.sdcrc.pacbell.com (Rod Williams) writes:
> Much more serious, in my estimation, was the decision to
> change the date of the parade from the traditional 4th
> Sunday in June (commemorating the Stonewall Riots) to the
> 3rd Sunday, thereby coinciding with parades in Los Angeles
> and other California venues.  But someone just told me
> that the uproar over this was enough to force the committee
> to change its mind again and revert to the 4th Sunday (June
> 27, this year)...

  Yeah, I read a letter to the editor in the BAR about some 
schmuck who whined something along the lines of:

  "Well, LA has changed the date of their parade before,
   why can't *they* change it again?"

What a maroon. The only reason that LA moved theirs is
so that SF might reciprocate. Talk about giving an inch
and taking a mile. Somebody needs to educate this moron
that the gay world does *not* revolve around SF, much
as he might think it ought to.
-- 

		Michael Thomas	(mike@gordian.com)
	"I don't think Bambi Eyes will get you that flame thrower..."  
		-- Hobbes to Calvin
		USnail: 20361 Irvine Ave Santa Ana Heights, Ca,	92707-5637
		PaBell: (714) 850-0205 (714) 850-0533 (fax)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: cjones@physci.ucla.edu (Chad Jones)
Subject: Blood donations at UCLA
X-UserAgent: Nuntius v1.1
Organization: University of California Los Angeles
Date: 11 Jan 93 07:39:58 PST

A lot has been on my mind lately, so I apologize for not posting this
sooner.

I tried to donate blood last month here at the UCLA Blood Donor Center. 
I had never given blood before (i hate needles), but this was to help a
coworker (also my supervisor) who was having a bone marrow transplant.  I
went to the donor center and answered their questionaire of 41 yes/no
questions.  Question 6 was "If male, have you, even once, had sex with
another man since 1977?"  So I answered yes.  When the worker went over
the form with me, she said that she had never seen anyone answer yes to
that question and had to look it up (she wasn't a regular there).  She
pulled out the big notebook and proceeded to inform me that  I would have
to get a "permanent deferral," which means I can never donate blood at
UCLA (or anywhere else).  This is due to federal, state, and Red Cross
rules.
 
I explained to her that I am gay, and that I have been in a monogomous
relationship with the same person for over 4 years, and that he is my
first (and only) partner (same for him).  I also pointed out that a
promiscuous heterosexual could donate, and that I was much safer.  She
was symapthetic, but I was still disqualified.

I understand their concern with the blood supply, but that they don't
consider heterosexual activity (except with prostitutes) in their
questioning isn't fair.  The boyfriend of a high school friend of mine
said that he had the same thing happen to him, but when he tried to
donate the question was "Are you homosexual," which meant that lesbians
were excluded.  So I guess that this is progress.

BTW, that coworker passed away on Friday.  It's a good thing that it
wasn't for lack of blood availability.

------------------------------------------------------------------------
Chad Jones                 | Do I need someone here to scold me or do I
Network Manager            | need someone who'll grab and pull me out of
UCLA Physiological Science | this four poster dull torpor pulling
cjones@physci.ucla.        | downward?                 -- 10,000 Maniacs
From: aberno@godel.questor.wimsey.bc.ca (Anthony Berno)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: Gay men personals...
Date: Fri, 8 Jan 1993 02:41:52 GMT
Reply-To: aberno@godel.questor.wimsey.bc.ca

In article <1993Jan7.154140.8226@spdcc.com> dyer@spdcc.com (Steve Dyer)  
writes:
> In article <1993Jan7.092921.16072@lclark.edu> snodgras@lclark.edu (Bil  
Snodgrass) writes:
> >In article <1993Jan7.032637.16456@godel.questor.wimsey.bc.ca>  
aberno@godel.questor.wimsey.bc.ca writes:
> >>Why is it "racist" to prefer one race over another in a sexual  
context?  
> >
> >It isn't....I would never rule out a person because of his color, but
> >God I hope he is dark!!!!!
> 
> >This shit about it being racist is trash.

>  I think the comments here have been a bit facile.  Not
>  because I necessarily disagree with them, but that the
>  situation is so much more complicated than that, and to
>  simply reduce this to a "matter of personal preference"
>  as if there might not be something else going on there,
>  is to be open to the charge of cluelessness.

Acknowledged. You are correct that many (perhaps not 80%) white males  
never consider the possibility of interracial sex, and are thus mirroring  
the racism of their society. My "cluelessness" is that I often assume  
others to have the same exposure to the Real World (TM) that I do.

I think the larger picture here is the use of inclusive versus exclusive  
language. The word "no" in personal ads is a continual assault against all  
those against whom it is directed, whether the "no" is based on race,  
mannerisms or physical features. Consider the difference between these two  
micro-ads:

Male seeks other male for sex.

Male seeks sexual partner. No women need apply.

The first is a statement of fact. The second is a deliberate and  
unnecessary barb against the opposite sex. Seeing the word "no" associated  
with oneself is a hurtful experience. 

Furthermore, there are issues of taste, which are highly subjective. I  
admit, I am offended to some degree by "GWM seeks same" because it is  
simply rubbing the reader's nose into the fact that racism exists in the  
gay community. The term "straight acting" particularly infuriates me. On  
one hand, this kind of specificity reduces the potential of disappointment  
among respondents to an ad. On the other, it isn't all *that* difficult to  
simply omit such statements from the ad and then politely decline to  
engage some of the respondents.

There is a really unpleasant tendency among many members of the gay  
community to not put forth the energy to even speak to those to whom one  
is not sexually attracted. I encounter this a lot at bars and the baths;  
their loss, I suppose, as anyone who lacks the time or energy for good  
manners probably isn't worth knowing anyway.

-Anthony

Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: mike@gordian.com (Michael A. Thomas)
Subject: Re: Different Strokes (was Re: Changing standards of female beauty)
Organization: Gordian; Costa Mesa, CA
Date: Fri, 8 Jan 1993 18:56:10 GMT

anderson@macc.wisc.edu (Jess Anderson) writes:
>
>To change the subject slightly, do you think it would be
>immoral to shoot my neighbor's dog?  "Neighbor" here does
>not indicate a friend, but rather some cretin living five
>doors away across my back fence.  There is a very large
>barking creature (I admit only assuming it is a dog)
>averaging 25 loud reports a minute, for about two weeks now,
>day and night, day in, day out, without cessation.  It's
>winter, the house is closed up tight, there are two
>computers with their fans, an air cleaner with an even
>louder fan, and a large aquarium with two pumps pumping, yet
>I can hear that dog as well as is if it were in *my* yard.

 Well, you can do what my little bother did to our next
door neighbors dogs that yapped all night: turn the hose
on them. In Madison in the winter it would seem to be an
effective solution -- poochsicle.
-- 

		Michael Thomas	(mike@gordian.com)
	"I don't think Bambi Eyes will get you that flame thrower..."  
		-- Hobbes to Calvin
		USnail: 20361 Irvine Ave Santa Ana Heights, Ca,	92707-5637
		PaBell: (714) 850-0205 (714) 850-0533 (fax)
From: mattm@apple.com (Matthew Melmon)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: Year of the Queer
Date: 6 Jan 93 19:41:56 GMT
Followup-To: soc.motss
Distribution: usa
Organization: Apple Computer, Inc.

In article <1993Jan6.180114.21278@gordian.com>, mike@gordian.com (Michael
A. Thomas) wrote:

>   No, you're missing the point. It's just the arrogance and unmitigated
> gall of saying something to the effect "Well LA, you've kissed our
> butt before, why can't you keep on kissing our butt?" in an incredulous
> tone. 

Calm down, poopsie.  I think you might be reading too much into
whatever was said - or, whoever said it may have full well meant it,
but that does not make his position that of San Francisco as a 
whole.  To be perfectly honest, I think Babylon by the Bay is
much over-rated, and it is true that many people who live there
are conceited shmucks.  However, many others are not - and I
don't believe that it is actually the position of the SF gay
community that the rest of the nation should march to their drum.

It cannot, however, be denied that San Francisco - as a word
(all right, two words...) - practically *means* homosexual.
When you say "I'm from San Francisco" to someone, you almost
invariable get a mini "Oh" experience.  In fact and of course,
there are more homosexuals in Los Angeles; but the perception
is that Frisco is a "gay" city - and therefore the gay community
often tries to "live up" to it's reputation.  There are also
more activist-types, or more active activist-types, in San
Francisco (*especially* if you include the People's Commune
just over the bridge) - and these make the city even more
visible (and are largely responsible for a false reputation -
San Francisco's liberal-ness has evaporated along with the
city's beauty:  it is becoming a pit).

*X*
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: richard@fwi.uva.nl (Richard Carels)
Subject: Re: One hell of a wake-up call.
Organization: FWI, University of Amsterdam
Date: Tue, 12 Jan 1993 12:32:15 GMT

> sck@watson.ibm.com (Scott C. Kennedy) writes:
 
>He feels very strongly about the stubbornness and "un-christian" behavior
>of the people who oppose the congregation's choice for pastor. He explained
>that he "wanted to become gay" (his words) to make himself a target for the
>injustices that are committed against homosexuals.
>
>So, his plan is to take a partner, while still remaining faithful to his wife. He would
>become part of the gay community and thus would place his support amongst
>the people who are being wronged. He knows this will cause alot of problems
>with his friends and business associates who are not as open-minded as others.
>And he doesn't have any idea how he is going to do this, but he desperately
>wants to do something. 

Whatever he does, let him make very sure his wife and male partner know what is
going on, and that it is not 'for real', otherwise people are going to get
very hurt.

For the rest, I have some doubts if it will really feel like what others are
going through. To me it looks more like closing your eyes to try to feel
what it's like to be blind. It isn't.

RC.

                                                                        ____
Richard Carels,  University of Amsterdam, Computer Science Department   \  /
                 Kruislaan 403, 1098 SJ AMSTERDAM                        \/

Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: batie@agora.rain.com (Alan Batie)
Subject: Visiting Phoenix 1/10-1/11
Organization: Open Communications Forum
Date: Thu, 7 Jan 1993 16:18:12 GMT

A non-motss co-worker and I will be going to Phoenix, AZ on Sunday for
a Monday business meeting.  Never having been to Phoenix, we're taking
a slightly earlier flight (arriving around 3pm) so we can be tourists
for a while.  Suggestions are welcome, as would be an opportunity to
meet motssers in the Phoenix area.
-- 
Alan Batie                               \
batie@agora.rain.com                      \       Sometimes they fool you
+1 503 452-0960                          / \      by walking upright...
45 28 59 N / 122 43 20 W / 440' MSL     /   \
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: elle@kimbark.uchicago.edu (Ellen Keyne Seebacher)
Subject: Re: Congratulating (het) parents on their new baby
Reply-To: elle@midway.uchicago.edu
Organization: University of Chicago
Date: Wed, 6 Jan 1993 16:16:34 GMT

In article <1993Jan6.143249.19655@cbnewsl.cb.att.com> 
 ry@cbnewsl.cb.att.com (ryerson.schwark) snipes at Peggy Murphy:
>>continuation of the species and all that.  
>Overpopulation and all that.

I know it's a tired question, Ry, but so am I:  if you're so bloody
concerned about overpopulation that you feel it necessary to criticize
others for having children, why not just save everyone the trouble and
bump yourself off?

I'd say it's too bad you've never met Peg's kids; the next generation
as to come from _somewhere_, and a lovelier, brighter, more queer-
positive bunch of children you won't find anywhere.

>Too bad.  I am anti-family if being for family means following
>the mooing herds that trumpet the joys of breeding.  There are
>plenty of people on this planet already.

I haven't the faintest idea why you're extrapolating "mooing herds"
from what she said.  If it's a choice of ceding breeding rights to the
'phobes or to Peg, it's a damned easy choice.

--                    __
Ellen Keyne Seebacher \/             elle@midway.uchicago.edu
  "I long ago decided that anything that could be finished in my lifetime
   was necessarily too small an affair to engross my full interest."
   --Ernest deWitt Burton (early president of the University of Chicago)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: gsmith@polyhymnia.iwr.uni-heidelberg.de (Gene W. Smith)
Subject: Re: "In the Life"/Gay Comedian/Military Ban
Organization: IWR, University of Heidelberg, Germany
Date: Mon, 11 Jan 93 17:21:38 GMT

In article <103881@netnews.upenn.edu> sfsmith@mail.sas.upenn.edu
(Sandy F. Smith, Jr.) writes:

>I suspect that he is going to let some time pass (and let Defense
>Secretary- designate Les Aspin massage the brass into getting with the
>program) before signing the executive order.  How long?  Your guess is
>as good as mine.

MY guess is that there will be a temporary freeze on removing glbs,
pending study.  After the study has pended for a while, it will
become permanent.  But we'll see.

-- 
     Gene Ward Smith/Brahms Gang/IWR/Ruprecht-Karls University 
               gsmith@kalliope.iwr.uni-heidelberg.de
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: tcarlin@athena.mit.edu (Thomas B Carlin)
Subject: BAR Manners in Boston....
Organization: Massachusetts Institute of Technology
Date: Mon, 4 Jan 1993 17:46:20 GMT

Bob Donahue asks:

>> WHY!!!  WHY are there no dart boards in any of the Boston bars!

Answer simple: I wouldn't GO IN a bar that had darts as I wouldn't trust 95% of
the Bitch Divas in this town with a sharp object.  Hasn't it ever struck you as
odd that VERY FEW of the bars serve drinks in GLASS glasses?

AS a friend from NY put it so wisely:
	"In NYC, people will stab you in the back if you get in their way.  It's
		nothing personal.  In Boston, they'll stab you in the back for
		something to do, and it's VERY personal.

Why do you think everyone leans against the walls.  It's not JUST posing.

Tom Carlin
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: mike@gordian.com (Michael A. Thomas)
Subject: Re: Year of the Queer
Organization: Gordian; Costa Mesa, CA
Date: Wed, 6 Jan 1993 18:01:14 GMT

In article <1993Jan6.044016.10166@netcom.com>, jfh@netcom.com (Jack Hamilton) writes:
> In article <1993Jan5.225714.22900@gordian.com> mike@gordian.com (Michael A. 
> Thomas) writes:
> 
> >What a maroon. The only reason that LA moved theirs is
> >so that SF might reciprocate. Talk about giving an inch
> >and taking a mile. Somebody needs to educate this moron
> >that the gay world does *not* revolve around SF, much
> >as he might think it ought to.
> 
> So?  Are you saying that the people who run and attend the parade shouldn't
> have the right to decide the date?  The date change has been debated for
> decades, and it has been defeated regularly. 

  No, you're missing the point. It's just the arrogance and unmitigated
gall of saying something to the effect "Well LA, you've kissed our
butt before, why can't you keep on kissing our butt?" in an incredulous
tone. I know full well that the debate is as old as the hills and that
there will never be any satisfactory solution, but it is really annoying
to see someone who can't see anything other then what *exactly* matches 
his wants and desires to the effect of telling LA to basically fuck off.
  Read the current (I think) BAR to see the actual letter, you'll see
what I mean...
-- 

		Michael Thomas	(mike@gordian.com)
	"I don't think Bambi Eyes will get you that flame thrower..."  
		-- Hobbes to Calvin
		USnail: 20361 Irvine Ave Santa Ana Heights, Ca,	92707-5637
		PaBell: (714) 850-0205 (714) 850-0533 (fax)
From: dyer@spdcc.com (Steve Dyer)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: Matters of Attraction
Date: 5 Jan 93 03:12:27 GMT
Organization: S.P. Dyer Computer Consulting, Cambridge MA

In article <mattm-040193154021@mcmelmon.apple.com> mattm@apple.com (Matthew Melmon) writes:
>So far as I am concerned,
>being wanted because one is a bubble-butted beach blond is 
>'equal' to being wanted because one knows how Isadora Duncan died. 

Trivia longa, bubbles brevis.

Or something like that.

-- 
Steve Dyer
dyer@ursa-major.spdcc.com aka {ima,harvard,rayssd,linus,m2c}!spdcc!dyer
From: aberson@enh.nist.gov
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: RE: Nominations for best men's colognes
Date: 6 Jan 93 20:57:53 GMT
Organization: NIST

In a previous article, anderson@macc.wisc.edu (Jess Anderson) wrote:
>Now Jojo, I know it's lunchtime where you are, but if you
>mention patchouli (essence de cul merdatre) one more time,
>I'll be unable to face breakfast.  Please dear, be sensible,
>steer the folk toward Morrocan chypre or oak moss or even
>what passes for musk (nothing except the real thing does),
>but do help me rid the world of patchouli; we had enough for
>22 civilizations in the 60s, when you were the tiniest of
>tots.

Surely you're not suggesting that because you had enough of it a few 
decades ago, those of us younger should do without to spare you again.
I've tried many of the others, but they just don't compare to the heavenly
scent of patchouli, at least on me.  So patchouli it is, as long as it
is cool enough to feel comfortable, a rare occasion indeed (It's only
82F today).

BTW, what is "cul merdatre?"  None of our library's handy-dandy French 
dictionaries (the most recent 1951 - this is the federal gov't) had any 
mention.

Sim Aberson   Ft. Lauderdale, FL   aberson@ocean.dnet.nasa.gov
"Home is where your roof landed" - t-shirt seen in Miami
"We Will Rebuild (tm)" - majority community response to Andrew
"We Will Redecorate" - gay community response to Andrew
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: anderson@macc.wisc.edu (Jess Anderson)
Subject: Re: Is Dan Quayle a Twinkie?
Organization: Madison Academic Computing Center, UW-Madison
Date: Tue, 12 Jan 93 16:02:14 GMT

In article <wood.726846725@siemens.com> wood@siemens.com
(Jim Wood) writes:

>anderson@macc.wisc.edu (Jess Anderson) writes:

>>I wasn't aware that "twink" conveyed any such notion of
>>mental vacuity; I've taken it to be approximately the
>>antonym of "bear," that is, a (body-) hairless (male)
>>person.  If it isn't a term assigned by genetic accident,
>>then it's a (negative) epithet that sensitive, caring people
>>wouldn't use, right?

>The physical nature of the twink, as Jess stated above, is one
>of a hairless, lean, and muscular (but not too muscular) male
>who aspires towards feminine and currently fashionable ideals
>of beauty.

Now this strikes me as *mighty* curious.  I had never been
even slightly clued that there was a feminine element of any
stamp in the perceived identity of so-called twinks.  I
suppose that might have been inferred from the sometimes
aggressively masculine sources that denounce twinks in harsh
terms.  But in that case, my contention that it's an
obnoxious epithet is only strengthened, especially since (at
least under the formulation I understand you to be
reporting), it's also tinged with misogyny.

<> Okay, perhaps "insensitive" was a poor choice of words.
<> How about "oblivious?" -- Melinda Shore
-- 
[Jess Anderson <> Madison Academic Computing Center <> University of Wisconsin]
[Internet: anderson@macc.wisc.edu <-best, UUCP:{}!uwvax!macc.wisc.edu!anderson]
[Room 3130 <> 1210 West Dayton Street / Madison WI 53706 <> Phone 608/262-5888]
[---------> Discrimination, Bigotry, and Hate are not Family Values <---------]
Xref: sparky soc.motss:54822 soc.bi:17509
From: black@lester.sybase.com (Chris Black)
Newsgroups: soc.motss,soc.bi
Subject: Re: Don't put down Wolves! (was: NOTICE - Details of the MOW)
Date: 4 Jan 93 18:35:48 GMT

In article <1992Dec22.044016.29424@wolves.Durham.NC.US>, wolfe@wolves.Durham.NC.US (G. Wolfe Woodbury) writes:
|> In <27167@sybase.sybase.com> black@lester.sybase.com (Chris Black) writes:
|> >
|> >So we should throw them to the wolves, right?
|> 
|> 	I appreciate what is being said, but do we have to keep
|> promoting unkind stereotypes?

You, and everyone else, should read _Hearing From Wayne_, by Bill
Franzen.  Great absurdist humor in short-story form.  There's a great
piece on anti-wolf prejudice.

-- Chris
black@sybase.com
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: anderson@macc.wisc.edu (Jess Anderson)
Subject: Re: H20, Greehouse, meteorology (was Re: kommotion...)
Organization: Madison Academic Computing Center, UW-Madison
Date: Mon, 11 Jan 93 11:42:08 GMT

In article <1993Jan11.064344.2758@netcom.com> jfh@netcom.com
(Jack Hamilton) writes:

>In article <1993Jan11.032808.8589@spdcc.com>
>rdonahue@spdcc.com (Bob Donahue) writes:

>>In article <C0ns5p.Do4@panix.com> mls@panix.com (Michael Siemon) writes:

>>[asks questions about solar irradiance variations and their
>>effect ont he solar-terrestrial interaction...]

>>Yeah, I took it to e-amil... :-)

>Too bad.  I was interested in the answer to that. 

So was I.  It certainly beats the George/Arne games or who
lives in which toxic dump for interest, in my book.

<> This is not a novel to be tossed aside lightly.
<> It should be thrown with great force.
<>      -- Dorothy Parker
-- 
[Jess Anderson <> Madison Academic Computing Center <> University of Wisconsin]
[Internet: anderson@macc.wisc.edu <-best, UUCP:{}!uwvax!macc.wisc.edu!anderson]
[Room 3130 <> 1210 West Dayton Street / Madison WI 53706 <> Phone 608/262-5888]
[---------> Discrimination, Bigotry, and Hate are not Family Values <---------]
Newsgroups: soc.motss