From: watt-alan@net.yale.edu (Alan Watt)
Newsgroups: talk.politics.guns
Subject: Re: Re: A little on self defense (what should I carry ?)
Date: 9 Oct 92 15:29:03 GMT
Organization: Yale University, Computing & Information Systems
Originator: swatt@mickey.CS.Yale.Edu


In article <1992Oct8.222727.18432@news.eng.convex.com>, cash@convex.com (Peter Cash) writes:
|> In article <4400257@iftccu.boeing.com> bressler@iftccu.boeing.com (Rick Bressler) writes:
|> ...
|> [ Stuff about having attended Ayoob's course being a good thing if you ever
|> have to go to trial for a justified shooting...]
|> 
|> But is it, really? Let me, in the cause of intellectual inquiry, assume the
|> role of _advocatus diaboli_ -- er, I mean state prosecutor:
|> 
|> "And so you see, ladies and gentlemen of the jury, this mad-dog killer that
|> sits before you and who wilfully murdered the poor, disadvantaged victim
|> who was searching his house at 3 AM for some edible scraps is a TRAINED
|> KILLER. By his own admission, he attended a gun-fighting school run by that
|> well-known paranoid, Massad Ayoob--the same Massad Ayoob whom you just
|> heard admit has testified on behalf of his students in no less than 387
|> shoothing trials THIS YEAR ALONE.
|> 
|> "Clearly, attending what we can only call "Massad Ayoob's School of Death"
|> PROVES BEYOND A REASONABLE DOUBT that the accused was obsessed with guns
|> and killing, and was only waiting for a chance to blow away a poor
|> disadvantaged individual. Consider how meticulously the accused has kept
|> his notes--in a bank safety deposit box, no less. Surely this is an
|> indication of an obsessed and paranoid mentality.
|> 
|> "Ladies and gentlemen of the jury, society will only be safe if we lock
|> away all the graduates of this insidious Academy of Assassins. I urge you
|> to throw this guy in jail and lose the key."
|> 
|> [ exit prosecutor ]

Probably exiting the DA's office as well for another profession to which
he is better suited.  Nothing is certain in a trial, but before the
prosecutor gets to make that summary statement, the jury will have sat
through 10 or more hours of LFI video tapes, which are admissible because
your notes prove you saw them and therefore the contents of the tapes
helped shape your state of mind.  Having actually seen what Ayoob teaches,
most any jury should dismiss the above statement as utter BS.

Further, your side will have established
(unless your attorney is totally incompetant), that the training imparted
in "Ayoob's School of Death" is pretty much S.O.P. with modern police
departments.  The prosecutor would therefore be saying that properly
trained modern police agencies are all "obsessed with guns and killing"
and society should "lock them all in jail and throw away the key."

No doubt there are people who feel this way about the police, but I don't
think they'd last very long in the prosecutor's office.  Besides which,
if you have taken the affirmative defense that your actions were justified
under the statues governing deadly force in self-defense, the judge will
instruct the jury that if they believe your actions met the legal standard,
they must find you not guilty.

It's even possible that if your defense is based on the justified use of
deadly force premise the judge will disallow the closing statement
above, since it in effect asks the jury to ignore the judge's instructions,
but I could easly be wrong about procedure here.  I do know that judges
disallow any statement from defense attorneys about the right of "jury
nullification", for exactly that reason.  Defense attorneys who attempt
to impart such information to juries will be found in contempt.

Yes, a creative prosecutor can attempt to portray any preparation you
take as "planning to kill", but Ayoob's advice remains good.  Since
I'm not an attorney, I'm certainly not *your* attorney, and if you're
really concerned you should seek a properly qualified opinion.


-- 
  Alan S. Watt
  Yale University			Computing and Information Systems
  Box 2112 Yale Station			(203) 432-6602
  New Haven, CT  06520-2112		Watt-Alan@Yale.Edu
Newsgroups: talk.politics.guns