Newsgroups: soc.culture.iranian

Our savior, seyyed@wuee1.wustl.edu (Seyyed Mahdavian) writes:
>In article <28600017@hplred.HP.COM> moussavi@hplred.HP.COM (Farshid Moussavi) wr
ites:
>>How do you know so much about other people?

>Qur'an talks a lot about your kind:"Sommon, bokmon, omyon, wa hom la ya'ghelun"
>I look at your behaviour and reasoning and compare to Qur'an. That's how I
>know.

Could you please write in English for the benefit of us inferior Qur'an/Arabic
non-experts?  Thank you, oh superior one.

By the way, what exactly is "my kind"?  I'll tell you what my kind is-
the kind that you don't like because he/she doesn't agree with everything
you say, as opposed to "your kind" which is destined for heaven via first 
class. You have quite a nerve. 

>Islam has taught me to be humble with those who are humble and be hard
>with those who oppress. It simply doesn't make sense to be humble with
>an arrogant guy or with an oppressor.

You mean with someone who disagrees with you, or shows a hair?  Doublespeak at 
its best! It is clear who the oppressors and arrogant people are.

>>I never condemened the entire country of England.  I just said that a law
>>which protects only one religious institution from insults and not others
>>is dumb.  So, I expressed my disagreement with only ONE law. 
>
>You see, I am not drawing conclusions "so easily". Your problem is that you
>don't think enough about the meaning of your statements. 

Yes you are, and yes I do think about the meaning of my statements.  
I just express dissent over one of the thousands and thousands of laws
in England, and you conclude that I condemn the entire country's population,
government, parliament, etc.!  Fortunately, they don't think as you do,
and chances are, they won't put a price on my head.

>didn't think that a law is not passed "just like this". Several intellectual
>members of the parliament have voted to it! And I see no demonstrations in

Good point! Unlike in Iran, laws in the west are not passed "just like this".
Some people vote for it, some people vote against it, and the debate never ends,
and those who oppose it are allowed to voice their opposition and have the same
rights and standing in society as those who support it. I happen to oppose that
particular law, and society doesn't reduce my rights because of that, and 
certainly not because of my religious beliefs.

>
>Go write "a book" against Christianity in England if you dare.

I have better things to do.
Religious intolerance is religious intolerance, and it sucks no matter
where you are. Besides, if I write a book against the Anglican Church 
here in the US, the Anglican Church won't try to assasinate me.  Even in
the UK if someone kills me for writing such a book, they will be charged
with murder.  Stop trying to justify all the oppression and murder the IRI
commits with just one law in England.  By the way, when Terry Waite was 
kidnapped in Lebanon, did the Anglican Church call for the death of his captors?

>>>2) You implicitely accept that insulting the religious believes of more than
>>>   1 billion people needs some kind of punishment, but it shouldn't be death.
>>No, I never accepted such a thing. I don't subscribe to such medieval teachings
>Then I must say that you have a very poor logic. By answering my questions

Just because I didn't accept what you wanted me to accept?  Ah, now I see
how you define "logic"  Yes, if logic is defined as agreement with your
ideas, I have VERY VERY VERY POOR logic.

>in my previous article, you accepted that punishment is not just for
>"physical harming" and sometimes is necessary for someone who "talks"
>or "writes" or "refuses to do go to war". Later, you accepted that a racist

When the person's talking could jeopardize the lives and well being of others,
yes.e.g. revealing military secrets, or screaming "fire" in a theater when there
is no fire.

>guy who insults a nation, must be punished. Indeed, if I publish "a book"

A guy who insults a nation must simple be ANSWERED, not punished!  You
won't change the way he thinks by killing him!

>writing racist arguments in it, I will be prosecuted in the US. (Or maybe

You might cause a lot of controversy, but you won't be prosecuted.
Have you ever heard of William Shockley, the renowned physicist?  He wrote
racist theories, and he was not thrown in jail.  Did you know that the 
neo-Nazis in Germany receive a lot of their Nazi propoganda from racist groups 
in America, via US Mail?  The federal gov't can't touch these guys because of 
their right to free speech, and the fact that the postal system is a media for 
propogation of ideas. 
In fact, everything you have posted in the last few days qualifies as
discrimination based on religion, but nobody's coming after you. See?
You don't think enough about your statements!  How come God didn't
correct you before you posted?  Maybe he's not on your side, anymore.

>>>   an implicit agreement while we are seeking VISA), we expect them to
>>>   respect our law too.
>>
>>Even in their own land?
> ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>Did you know that Iran recently had to pay millions of dollars fine, because
>some people republished copyrighted american books without the consent of
>the original publisher ON THEIR OWN LAND IRAN, even though Iran never signed
>the copyright law agreement. Don't need to answer, I know, It's just another
						      ^^^^
>"dumb law".
>

It must be nice to know so much. Then he calls others arrogant!

You're calling it dumb, not me. Publishing someone else's book without 
their permission is an act of theft, and a violation of international law 
to which Iran is a signatory! How, exactly was Iran "forced" to pay? 
These cases are tried in international courts, or are settled voluntarily
by the parties out of court.  In either case, violence was not used
to force Iran to pay.

You claim it is ok to use violence to punish someone outside of your country
who has violated YOUR version of Islamic law!  The world is NOT SUBJECT to all 
the laws of the IRI, or even of (your interpretationof) Islam!
>
>>Goebbels and Himmler would have loved you.  Actually, Pinochet in Chile is
>>a little on the defensive, and maybe you could still help him...
>
>Thanks for offering me a job. But no, thanks!
>
No problem,  It IS a recession you know.

>>The confusion is yours, because I said people have EQUAL RIGHTS.
>
>Well, I didn't read carefully your article, but I doubt you "wrote" that.
						   ^^^^^
>Maybe you "meant" that. 
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
There you go again, relying on "your humble opinion" and throwing out false 
accusations! How can a man of your stature who knows so much by reading such
a strong reference as the Qur'an, and is so absolutely sure of everything have 
any doubts at all? Let me refresh your memory:

>Article 13082 in soc.culture.iranian:
>From: moussavi@hplred.HP.COM (Farshid Moussavi)
>Date: Sat, 26 Sep 1992 00:42:29 GMT
.....
>Certainly, there are good people and bad people.  But everybody has the same
>rights!  Even if you think you are more virtuous, you certainly don't deserve
>more rights just because you practice a certain religion.  For example,

Once again, you have proved how self righteous you are and how little regard you
have for other human beings and the truth.  When are you going to just accept 
that you are a human being like the rest of us?  When are you going to learn to 
coexist with others? How many innocent people must die before you realize this??

It is high time that you stop accusing everybody of "believing the wrong things"
and being "illogical", and advocating violence and look a little bit inward 
to your own problems, the biggest of which is your ego.

>However this is true and I agree 99%  :-) 
>The 1% being: "If they don't abuse their rights".

You just abused yours, buddy!
>
>Seyyed.
>p.s. : I would like to remind you that because of the "book" that Rushdie
>       "wrote", several innocent people got killed in Pakistan!

Did Rushdie kill them?  Or did the demonstrators?  This is what happens
when you teach people that violence is ok.

>p.p.s.: Please excuse me if I don't answer your articles anymore, my
>       advisor will "kill" me if I don't finish my job on time.

Good Luck, and please don't let me hold you up.

p.s. Please excuse me if I seem angry, I am not alone.  Millions of our 
countrymen/women feel the same as I do, and they won't be as nice with you 
about it either.

Agha Javad
Newsgroups: soc.culture.iranian