HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: whheydt@pbhya.PacBell.COM (Wilson Heydt)
Subject: Re: The Rebuilding of the Wrecked West Oakland I-880 Segment
Reply-To: whheydt@PacBell.COM (Wilson Heydt)
Organization: Pacific * Bell, San Ramon, CA
Date: Mon, 17 Aug 1992 16:15:07 GMT

In article <1992Aug17.062920.23451@s1.gov> lip@s1.gov (Loren I. Petrich) writes:

{Some enterprising botanist needs to come up with an apple-orange
hybrid . . .]

>	I agree. That replacement freeway costs more than the BART
>extension under construction to Dublin ($570 million for 11 miles),
>and will be 8 times more expensive per unit length. For this money,
>one could get a BART extension out to Livermore, or else build a new
>light-rail system somewhere.

Do you think a BART extension to Livermore would have an effect on
traffic on the complex from the I80-I580 through the I580-I980-Ca24
area?

	--Hal
-- 
Hal Heydt                    |    "Boycott Time-Warner"
Analyst, Pacific*Bell        |         --J. Danforth Quayle
510-823-5447                 |    "... kill all the lawyers."
whheydt@pbhya.PacBell.COM    |         --William Shakespeare
Xref: sparky sci.environment:10761 sci.math:10431
From: cxd653@huxley.anu.edu.au (Chunping Ding)
Newsgroups: sci.environment,sci.math
Subject: Fractional Gaussian Noise. Fractional Brownian Motion Generator.
Date: 20 Aug 92 12:17:59 GMT
Organization: Australian National University
Originator: cxd653@huxley


I need a program (FORTRAN or C) for generating FREACTIONAL GAUSSIAN
NOISE, An other word for this is Fractional Brownian Motion Generator.
Could anyone give me some help?

I do not read this group very often, could you please email to myself.

THank you in advance!

Ding Chunping

________________________________________________________________________

(Mr.) Ding Chunping             Telephone 61 6 249 4205 or 61 6 249 2066
Geology Department              Fax       61 6 249 5544                 
Australian National University  Email:    cxd653@huxley.anu.edu.au
GPO Box 4, Canberra, ACT 2601             ding@basins.anu.edu.au
Australia                                 ding@grafix.anu.edu.au
________________________________________________________________________
Newsgroups: sci.environment
From: mfriedma@uucp (Michael Friedman)
Subject: Re: Suggestibility of environmentalists
Organization: Oracle Corporation
Date: Thu, 13 Aug 1992 23:12:15 GMT
X-Disclaimer: This message was written by an unauthenticated user
              at Oracle Corporation.  The opinions expressed are those
              of the user and not necessarily those of Oracle.

In article <1992Aug11.032629.13241@usenet.ins.cwru.edu> bj368@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Mike E. Romano) writes:

>Isn't such a study a waste of time?
>Also the first assumption....that these two professions....toxicology
>and epidemiology are "environmentalist" professions...what about
>medical doctors in general...or engineers in general..they also
>work with the environment?

Maybe you should check out the article.

>Let's take one example, asbestos:  after all the data that has been
>amassed on the hazards to humans of this substance....aren't there
>better things to be doing than analyzing some little quirk in how
>scientists might recognize or evaluate it....sort of blind man's
>bluff?

Not at all.  You see, if scientists are not proerly evaluating the
damager that asbestos causes then maybe we should spend less money
getting rid of it.

>Isn't it much more urgent to start curbing the world wide pollution
>of organic solvents, toxics in general, radioactive waste...starting
>with our own efforts in these areas?

Well, you see, you're falling right into the trap that is being
described.  If these substances were described to you in terms of
their effects without mentioning their names would you find them so
frightening? 

>What's the point?  Dioxin has already been shown to be one of the
>strongest toxics .....most hazardous.... 

Well, Mike, turns out you're a bit out of date.

The way they decided that dioxin was dangerous is that they fed
massive amounts to rats and then assumed that the effects scaled
linearly.  Further anlyses has indicated that the effects on rats were
through a mechanism that won't work in humans and that there was a
threshold effect.

In other words, the jury is still out on dioxin, but current evidence
does not indicate that it is anywhere near as dangerous as we thought.
-- 
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I am not an official Oracle spokesman.  I speak for myself and no one else.
Newsgroups: sci.environment
From: bl713@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Lev Tarasov)
Subject: Re: Whale rights - Science and sentimen
Organization: Case Western Reserve University, Cleveland, Ohio, (USA)
Date: Sun, 16 Aug 92 17:49:22 GMT


Back to the usual animal rights debate. On what basis do we have
the right to discriminate between humans and other life forms?
Intelligence, display of emotion, response to the environment?
If these were our criteria, then there would be some biological
humans (severely mentally retarded or in coma) who would rate 
lower on the criteria than say a chimpanzee. Should we start 
killing or experimenting on these humans? Continuing, no
matter what rational criteria you choose, some humans are going
to fall through the cracks. If we want to chooses religious 
arguments, than the pantheist and monotheist are going to
be stuck in an irresolvable stalemate. But then who said 
ethics was supposed to be a resolvable system of thought?

Point is that the issue is a question of values, and 
we use science to try to justify our values.
chow
From: mwilson@ncratl.AtlantaGA.NCR.COM (Mark Wilson)
Newsgroups: sci.environment
Subject: Re: Valuing the health benefits of clean air
Keywords: Stop the Orygun Chainsaw Massacre, etc, etc.
Date: 13 Aug 92 16:25:35 GMT
Organization: NCR Engineering and Manufacturing Atlanta -- Atlanta, GA

>increased risk of death due to PM10 (particulate matter, 10 microns) exposure 
>is 1/10,000.  (For contrast, the risk of dying in a car accident is 2 in 10,000,
>and the risk of job related death is 0.5 in 10,000) 

>They estimate the annual economic value of avoiding these effects at 9.8
>billion dollars, and that attaining air pollution standards may save 1600 
>lives a year.

How many lives could be saved if that 9.8 million would be applied to say
cancer or aids research.  And *please* don't tell me that we should have
enough money to spend on both.

Saving lives is a very noble goal.  At the same time why don't we try
to get the maximum bang for the buck.

6.1 million dollars per life saved does not seem very cost effective.

Note:  Their have been recent studies that seek to show that decreased
economic growth is also bad for potential health.  That is, basically.
A wealthier economy has more money to spend on health.  Both health
services for citizens and more research.  The studies I have heard about
put a figure of 7.5 to 20 million dollars per extra death per year.
These studies are still controversial and not excepted by all.

The lower figure of 7.5 million per extra death is getting awful
close to your figure of 6.1 million per life saved.

The field is complicated, and getting more so by the day.

>						Jim
-- 
--Mark

Newsgroups: sci.environment,sci.energy
From: pgravel@nap.amoco.com (Philip L. Gravel)
Subject: Re: Nature's Revenge (toll booths vs. cars)
Reply-To: pgravel@nap.amoco.com (Philip L. Gravel)
Organization: Amoco Corporation
Date: Mon, 17 Aug 1992 18:45:03 GMT

In article <1992Aug15.034301.18408@s1.gov>, lip@s1.gov (Loren I. Petrich) 
writes:
 
> 	[Chicago toll road vs. NJ Turnpike, another toll road]
> 
> 	[Chicago: a toll plaza every 15 minutes]
> 
> 	[NJ Turnpike, toll plazas only at entrances and exits; one
> gets a card when entering telling where one entered and tolls at each
> exit]

[Stuff deleted...]

> 	The NJ and PA Turnpike systems work well when there are not
> too many entrances/exits per unit distance, which is generally the
> case in thinly populated areas. But for urban and suburban roads, that
> is clearly not the case, which is perhaps one reason why toll roads
> are not more common -- one would need lots of toll plazas.

That's exactly the problem with the Tri-State tollway.  It is more of an 
urban expressway than a cross country freeway.  IMHO, the wait to process a 
ticket at an exit ramp would require more time than the current system.  
During the morning rush hour, traffic is backed onto the East-West tollway at 
the Midwest Rd exit ramp because of the toll collection at that point.  The 
system is relatively fast automated collection baskets (with no gates).  
Imagine how much worse it would be with cards, not too mention how much more 
manpower intensive (read costly) it would be.

But the Illinois Tollway Authority is aware of the problems with the current 
toll collection system.  They will test a new system on one of the tollways 
in which one can prepurchase magnetic tollway usage cards.  The cards are put 
in the windshield of the car and can be read at the toll booth while the car 
is moving.  Thus these motorists would only have to slow down and not 
completely stop as is the case currently.  This should relieve some of the 
congestion at the toll booths.


Phil

-----
Philip L. Gravel                      Internet: pgravel@nap.amoco.com
Amoco Corporation, Chicago, IL        Phone:    (312)856-3553
----------
These opinions aren't worth the paper they're written on and
certainly don't reflect those of my employer.
From: Alan McGowen <alanm@igc.apc.org>
Newsgroups: sci.environment
Date: 21 Aug 92 22:27 PDT
Subject: Re: Whale rights - Science and sentimen
Nf-ID: #R:MAGNUS.92Jun25185743@is19e0s00.j:-863734338:cdp:1466601743:000:946
Nf-From: cdp.UUCP!alanm    Aug 21 22:27:00 1992



>In article <1992Jun28.045613.11088@ke4zv.uucp> gary@ke4zv.UUCP (Gary Coffman) writes:
>>This is one of the most difficult questions that you could ask. There
>>is little consensus on just what constitutes intelligence.
>
>We do have a good _practical_ consensus on scholastic achievement
>tests and IQ tests, which are well correlated with each other.  See 
>the tests used for entry requirements to rec.org.mensa.
[...]
>-- 
>szabo@techbook.COM  Public Access User --- Not affiliated with TECHbooks

Reading through this month-old sci.environment crap I came across 
this tidbit from Nick Szabo, suggesting probably that whales 
should join Mensa before they deserve our respect.

I can't resist. I wonder if Nick's respect for IQ tests will 
change if he learns that *I* am a member of Mensa? [Well, not in 
good standing -- I didn't pay this year. Check last year's 
membership list Nick -- if you are a member.]

-------------
Alan McGowen

Newsgroups: sci.environment,sci.engr.civil
From: u020@csx.cciw.ca (I. Wong)
Subject: DYNTOX program (U.S. EPA)
Organization: Canada Centre for Inland Waters
Distribution: na
Date: Thu, 20 Aug 1992 19:42:48 GMT
Followup-To: u020@csx.cciw.ca 

I like to find out anybody out there have a source and executable code
on DYNTOX (by US EPA). If you do have this, can you send it to me
by e-mail. I like to have it ASAP. Thank you.

I. Wong
e-mail address: u020@csx.cciw.ca 


Newsgroups: sci.environment,sci.energy
From: pgravel@nap.amoco.com (Philip L. Gravel)
Subject: Re: Nature's Revenge (toll booths vs. cars)
Reply-To: pgravel@nap.amoco.com (Philip L. Gravel)
Organization: Amoco Corporation
Date: Mon, 17 Aug 1992 18:15:19 GMT

In article <1992Aug14.185818.11788@kocrsv01.delcoelect.com>, 
c23st@kocrsv01.delcoelect.com (Spiros Triantafyllopoulos) writes:
 
> On a trip to Chicago a couple of weeks ago, I noticed the following while
> on 294 north, A 3+3 lane highway. Traffic would flow quite well, and then,
> every few miles, a TOLL PLAZA... 
> 
> We had to go thru four of these each way. Each time, before the TOLL
> PLAZA we'd be driving along quite well. Then, a 15 - 20 minute stop'n'go
> session to pay tolls. A few miles of faster driving, and ad nauseaum.

The Tri-State tollway, which was built about 30 yrs ago, is currently being 
reconstructed and widened from three to four lanes.  It carries a lot more 
traffic now than it was ever designed to, hence the need for widening.  Even 
on bad days, I've never spent more than 5-10 minutes waiting at a toll booth.  
Certain times (rush hours, weekends at the Deerfield toll plaza because of 
Great America traffic) are particularily bad.

> Why the tolls were collected, I don't know. All I can tell is that 
> the road quality was reminiscent of Bagdhat (sp?) AFTER the war, 
> and lots and lots of narrow lanes/construction zones/.... 

If you think the Tri-State is bad, you should have driven the Eisenhower, 
Kennedy, or Dan Ryan before they were reconstructed.  As bad as the condition 
of the Tri-State gets, it was never allowed to get as bad as the free/express- 
ways.  That's because money was available from tolls collected to finance 
repaving.  Illinois toll roads do not use any tax money and are supported 
solely by toll revenue.  If you don't drive on them, you don't pay for them.


Phil

-----
Philip L. Gravel                      Internet: pgravel@nap.amoco.com
Amoco Corporation, Chicago, IL        Phone:    (312)856-3553
----------
These opinions aren't worth the paper they're written on and
certainly don't reflect those of my employer.
Newsgroups: sci.environment
From: Gavin Adams <gavin.adams@lso.mts.dec.com>
Subject: GOES West: How bad is it (going to get)?
X-Xxdate: Tue, 18 Aug 92 10:30:22 GMT
Organization: Digital Equipment Corporation
X-Useragent: Nuntius v1.1.1d7
Date: Tue, 18 Aug 1992 16:37:22 GMT

I'm doing a proposal for a satellite posistioning system to help our
Earth station track GOES-West.  I'm not a SATCOm expert, and would like
some information.  I've been told that GOES-West is out of fuel needed
for posistioning, and therefore its orbit is slowly changing.  Is this
true, and if so, how bad will the orbit get?  What would be the correct
term to describe this orbit change/problem (I'm currently calling it an
orbit wobble)?  Is there any plans to replace the satellite?

Is this even the correct group to be posting to?  I looked through the
groups we receive, and this one was about as close as they come!  Any and
all responses would be appreciated, and I will post a summary of all
responses I get by mail.  Thanks!

--- Gavin
Visualize Whirled Peas!
From: gary@ke4zv.uucp (Gary Coffman)
Newsgroups: sci.environment
Subject: Re: Different Transit Plans for Different Population Clusters
Date: 18 Aug 92 13:05:44 GMT
Reply-To: gary@ke4zv.UUCP (Gary Coffman)
Organization: Gannett Technologies Group

In article <1992Aug16.173628.3657@usenet.ins.cwru.edu> bl713@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Lev Tarasov) writes:
>
>The US has been a country run by businessmen for the last century,     

They wish. The US has been run by paternalistic politicians and
lawyers for the past 80 years. The robber barons of old that *built*
this country are long out of power.

>its the biggest debtor nation in the world now. 

It also has the largest economy. As a percentage of GNP, US debt is
lower now than it has been any time since 1940. In absolute dollar
terms the debt is large, but then the dollar isn't worth what it
used to be.

> The rich have the choices, but what about the poor? 

What about the poor? The poor *never* have the economic choices available
to those with money, in *any* society, by *definition*. The median annual 
income in the US is $27,500. By definition, half of US families make 
more than that. Collectively they have dominant economic power. The rich
are, well, very rich, but they are few in number and their collective
wealth is less than that of the vast middle. This is different from many
countries where an elite few control most of the wealth and the majority
of the people live in abject poverty.

>With your wasting of water 
>resources, what are you future choices? Major diversion schemes
>of rivers from Canada? 

*Most* of the country has no water shortage. Southern Californians
who insist on living in a arid climate with back East yards and
swimming pools have a problem. This year, most of us in the East 
have too much water. Water is not a depletable resource in the
sense of fossil fuels. Whatever amount you take from a river,
that same amount will be there again tommorrow. Only if you
demand more than the river flow are you going to be disappointed.

>A state run by businessmen would I 
>presume base their policy on profit. When will that magic faith 
>that profit maximization guarantee quality of life and environment
>be seen as the modern equivalent of the belief that the rain gods
>determine when the rain will come.

Well false premises lead to false conclusions. The US is not a state
run by businessmen. Economists place little faith in a system run by
business, it's called mercantilism and went out of favor in Victorian
times. What economists consider the best *practical* economic system
is the *free market*. This is a condition dominated neither by business
nor by consumers. Rather it is a balance of greed and need created by
open bidding for goods and services. This is what Adam Smith called
the "Unseen Hand". It requires no government bureaucrat to operate,
or hypothetical capitalist fat cat to pull strings, it merely needs
the open exchange of goods for consideration with each party trying
to maximize his advantage.

Gary
From: steinly@topaz.ucsc.edu (Steinn Sigurdsson)
Newsgroups: sci.environment
Subject: Re: Different Transit Plans for Different Population Clusters
Date: 20 Aug 92 21:57:44 GMT
	<JMC.92Aug19185443@SAIL.Stanford.EDU>
	<1992Aug20.181758.29072@vexcel.com>
Organization: Lick Observatory/UCO
NNTP-Posting-Host: topaz.ucsc.edu
In-reply-to: dean@vexcel.com's message of 20 Aug 92 18:17:58 GMT

In article <1992Aug20.181758.29072@vexcel.com> dean@vexcel.com (dean alaska) writes:


   In article <JMC.92Aug19185443@SAIL.Stanford.EDU> jmc@cs.Stanford.EDU writes:
   >In article <1992Aug19.150702.29920@usenet.ins.cwru.edu> bl713@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Lev Tarasov) writes:

   >   Just for interest, Vancouver has faced lawn-watering bans this 
   >   year. The states have a lot of water, but a lot of it is wasted.
   >   Some of the dam projects in Alberta(such as the OLDMAN river) 
   >   seem to make more sense for setting up a large-scale water-
   >   diversion system to the states. The premier of Quebec has
   >   long been associated with the grand-canal scheme: to dam up
   >   Hudson's bay and blast a canal down to the great lakes for 
   >   US water usage. Wouldn't it make a lot more sense to conserve
   >   our resources than mutilate our watersheds?###

   >Mr. Tarasov likes words like "mutilate" that prejudice the issues he
   >purports to discuss.

   >How about "develop" instead?  Then the answer wouldn't be obvious
   >and would actually be subject to discussion.

   Dams do tend to flood an area and drive out all of the wildlife in the
   area.  I would suggest that mutilate would be more descriptive, and
   accurate, than develop.


Why dingo! Damns tend to create beautiful, useful lakes,
and severly reduce flooding downstream! While some mammals
get displaced a few kilometers, and salmon can have difficulty
unless helped by ladders, habitat opens for numerous birds, fish
and insects, and the stabilisation of downstream flow alleviates
ecological impact on downstream habitats due to drought/flood
cycles... ;-)
It all depends on how you look at it...


*  Steinn Sigurdsson   			Lick Observatory      	*
* steinly@helios.ucsc.edu		"standard disclaimer"  	*
*  I know people whose idea of fun				*
*  Is throwing stones in the river in the afternoon sun		*
*  Oh let me be as free as them					*
*  				- BB 1986			*
Newsgroups: sci.environment
From: mvp@netcom.com (Mike Van Pelt)
Newsgroups: sci.environment,alt.politics.clinton
Subject: Re: CLINTON SPEECH TEXT: EARTH DAY SPEECH
Date: 21 Aug 92 20:17:49 GMT
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services (408 241-9760 guest)

In article <1992Aug21.172023.23768@vexcel.com> dean@vexcel.com (dean alaska) writes:
>In article <1992Aug20.194012.18473@hsv3.lsil.com> mvp@hsv3.lsil.com (Mike Van Pelt) writes:
>>This has been done by paring reserve capacity beyond the danger point.
>>We're in for years of severe electrical shortages because of this
>>short-sighted policy.
>
>Its your turn to provide some proof.

Compare electrical capacity percentage reserves with demand, and
note the trend in demand.  Use any source of hard numbers you like;
the conclusions are obvious.

>>>An ozone hole is growing over Kennebunkport. 
>>This is utterly silly, and has been quite thoroughly debunked.
>This is obviously political sarcasm.

The "Over Kennebunkport" part is obvious political sarcasm.  It's an
allusion, though, to an alleged ozone hole over North America.  That
turned out to be completely spurious, and had more to do with whose
budget was coming up for debate in the Appropriations committee than
with anything happening in the Earth's atmosphere.  NASA took quite a
black eye from that one.

>>>     I believe it is time ... to recognize that Adam Smith's
>>> invisible hand can have a green thumb.
>>Here (no sarcasm) is the best idea in the whole speech.  This should be
>>put into practice immediately.  I think, however, that the Republicans
>>are much more interested in taking this approach than the Democrats.
>Has Bush talked about these proposals at all?

I don't know about Bush in particular, but I've heard this approach
being recommended in Republican circles for years, from Newt Gingrich
in particular.  Such initiatives are never allowed out of committee in
a Democrat-controlled congress, though.

-- 
Mike Van Pelt          | What happens if a big asteroid hits Earth?
mvp@netcom.com         | Judging from realistic simulations involving a
                       | sledge hammer and a common laboratory frog, we
                       | can assume it will be pretty bad. -- Dave Barry
From: Timothy.Allen@dartmouth.edu (Timothy Allen)
Newsgroups: sci.environment,sci.geo.geology,comp.infosystems.gis
Subject: Re: USGS stream gauging data
Date: 20 Aug 92 00:45:57 GMT
 <41678@ogicse.ogi.edu>
Organization: Science Division-Geology, Keene State College, Keene, NH
X-Posted-From: InterNews1.0d55@newshost.dartmouth.edu

In article <41678@ogicse.ogi.edu>
jhurst@amb4.ese.ogi.edu (James Hurst) writes:

> >Does anyone out there know if USGS stream gauging
> >data is available via anonymous ftp? I'm interested
> >in data for the western US in particular.
> 
> You might check the USGS ftp site, at glis.cr.usgs.gov  (192.41.204.54).
                           ^^^^^^^^  
> 
> GLIS is the global land information system, designed to let users come and 
> browse datasets.  They have some procedure for for searching their 
> inventory, and for ordering data.


It is not an ftp site, but a telnet site.  You can log-on as a guest
and browse, or sign-up to become a "registered user."  Looks pretty
cool.

--------------------------------------------------------------------
Tim Allen                                    tim.allen@dartmouth.edu
Science Division - Geology                      t_allen@unhh.unh.edu   
                       
Keene State College
Keene, NH 03431-4183                         603-358-(not yet known)
Xref: sparky sci.environment:10685 ba.transportation:2002 rec.railroad:6512