From: thf2@ellis.uchicago.edu (Ted Frank)
Subject: Re: fraternities
Reply-To: thf2@midway.uchicago.edu
Organization: University of Chicago Computing Organizations
Date: Fri, 17 Apr 1992 20:44:59 GMT

In article <1992Apr17.090511.5144@ac.dal.ca> 01sybok@ac.dal.ca writes:
>Half of all *reported* acquaintence rapes, Ted. My point (which I think you 
>missed) was that there may be a connection or phenomenon that causes
>rapes by fraternity men/athletes to be reported.

I didn't miss your point.  I pointed out that you have no evidence to
support your claim, no reason to suspect that such a connection/phenomenon
exists, no explanation for this mysterious factor that causes more fraternity
rapes to be reported than actually happen.  Do you read anything I write?

>> Certainly we can, given that we have a sense of which rapes are more likely
>> to be reported.  And there have been a number of studies done on precisely
>> this point.  And the null hypothesis that fraternity rapes are no more
>> likely to be reported than other rapes is not at all unreasonable.
>
>Cite them, Ted. This is the third time I've said it. 

For the third time, I'll include the cites at the end of this post.

>Your null hypothesis
>is just that, a hypothesis, and idea with *no data whatsoever*. Because
>you are male, and males are 9 times more likely to rape than females, I
>could form a null hypothesis that you are a rapist, but with no data, the
>hypothesis is just that, a hypothesis. 

The difference is that you made a logical leap that I haven't.  I didn't
form a hypothesis that all fraternity members are rapists, just one that
says that joining a fraternity makes one more likely to rape.  One which
I've backed up with evidence which you've chosen to ignore.

As I've said before, I have no complaints about the claim that ceteris
paribus, as a man, I'm nine times more likely to rape than the average
woman.
 
>>>I think instead of following stupid threads about who perpertrates more
>>>rapes than who, we ought to work together to change attitudes.
>> 
>> I also agree that we should change attitudes.  And when there's an
>> institution that perpetuates these 
>> attitudes, we should do something about it.
>So... do something about it, Ted! Hold a date rape seminar. Conduct a study.
>Talk to rape victims. Put your money where your voluminous postings are.
>If you are so concerned, why not be part of the solution, instead of screaming
>here on the net?

Because abolishing (or greatly reforming) fraternities *is* part of the
solution.

Thousands of people read the net.  In terms of geography and numbers,
posting to the net is an efficient way to disseminate information that
will lead others to think about a major problem.

You have no idea how much or what work I do outside of the net, which
makes you remarkably unqualified to tell me that I'm not doing something
about it.

-------
An incomplete bibliography.

---Fraternities and Rape---

Bausell and Maloy, "The links among drugs, alcohol, and campus crime: A
	research report," Paper presented at the Fourth National Conference
	on Campus Violence, Towson, MD.

Ehrhart and Sandler, Campus gang rape: Party Games?, Association of 
	American Colleges, 1985.

Garrett-Gooding and Senter, "Attitudes and acts of sexual aggression on
	a university campus," Sociological Inquiry (1987) 59:348-71.  

Hughes and Sandler, "Friends" raping friends: Could it happen to you?,
	Association of American Colleges, 1987.

Kanin, "Reference groups and sex conduct norm violations," Sociological
	Quarterly (1967), 8:495-504.

O'Sullivan, Chris.  (Title unknown, book coming out in 1992 or 1993.)

Parrot and Bechhofer, eds, Acquaintance Rape: The Hidden Crime, Wiley, 1991.

Rivera and Regoli, "Sexual victimization experiences of sorority women,"
	Sociology and Social Research (1987), 72:39-42.

Sanday, Fraternity Gang Rape, NYU Press, 1990.  [This book somehow seems
	to have mysteriously disappeared off the shelves of nearly every
	college library.]

Warshaw, I Never Called It Rape, Harper & Row, 1988.

---Gang Rape in General---

Blakely, "The New Bedford verdict," Ms. (July 1984), 116.
Geis, "Group sexual assaults," Medical Aspects of Human Sexuality (May
	1971), 101-13.

Medea and Thompson, Against Rape, Farrar, Straus, & Giroux (1974).

---On Difficulty of Conviction:---

Estrich, Real Rape, Harvard U Press, 1987.

Rowland, The Ultimate Violation, Doubleday, 1985.
-- 
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