HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: gavan@elc.mth.uct.ac.za (Gavan Tredoux)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.african
Subject: Re: Star Editorial (long - was Re: Scandal alert: more to follow)
Date: 21 Nov 92 20:46:08 GMT
Article-I.D.: ucthpx.1992Nov21.204608.5154
Organization: University of Cape Town
X-Newsreader: Tin 1.1 PL4

imofoke1@cc.swarthmore.edu (Ivan Mofokeng) writes:
 
: yeh, the Mail is dedicated to revealing anything that the armed forces are
: involved in, ie. anything that is to the detriment of the reconciliation
: process.  if my memory serves me well, a lot of people rebuked the Mail for
: spreading making wild accusations.  some went as far as insinuating that it
: was supportive of the anc course (does that ring any bells, govan).  but
: then , the mail kept onat it.  the job of the people at the mail have
: produced results.  let us applaud their efforts.  i hope they kept on doing
: the good job.

The Weekly Wail, need we say more? Actually Goldstone was the force
behind the latest revelations, which is why someone listened.

: on the other hand, i will like to hear ypu views on the latest revelations.
: you had quite a lot to say when "evidence was not available".  now what do
: you say in the face of the STRONG EVIDENCE that has come to light.

It may surprise you to hear that MI have infiltrated MK, and have
strategies aimed to smear them and the ANC, it hardly surprises me.

Both of these organizations are still very much at war, although the
war now operates under different rules. Surprise! And both have covert
operations on the go aimed at undermining each other.

How on earth this affects anything I've said escapes me, but I'm flattered
that you attach so much importance to my pronouncements. 

Latest news: Goldstone finds that violence in Thokoza is due to ANC/IFP
rivalry, and that the Phola Park SDU (ANC aligned) played a major role,
having become little more than a protection racket. Kinda
supports my own view that the violence rests squarely within its
own community.

Something puzzles me though: why smear MK with IRA links when
Mandela is photographed regularly with Castro, Arafat, Gaddafi
and others, and supported Irag in the Gulf war, even phoning Bush
to tell him so? The "intelligence" in Military Intelligence
looks a little out of place. 

Gavan Tredoux
MI (UCT)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.african
From: barnhart@ddsw1.MCS.COM (Mr. Aaron Barnhart)
Subject: IPS:LIBERIA: U.S. insists it backs peacekeeping force
Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1992 23:18:09 GMT
Organization: Evanston, Illinois, U.S.A.

Copyright Inter Press Service 1992, all rights reserved.  Permission to re-
print within 7 days of original date only with permission from 'newsdesk'.

Reference: North America
Title: LIBERIA: U.S. insists it backs peacekeeping force


washington, nov 12 (ips) -- the u.s. state department insisted
thursday it continued to back the peacekeeping force (ecomog) sent
by the economic community of west african states (ecowas) to
liberia despite remarks by its chief africa policymaker broadcast
by the british broadcasting company (bbc).

spokesperson richard boucher told reporters that the bbc had
apologised to assistant secretary of state for african affairs
herman cohen for airing the remarks which it said were recorded
during a bbc interview.

boucher also suggested that the remarks, which reportedly
created a sensation in west africa, may have been ''doctored'',
although other reports indicated that cohen, who has so far
declined comment, made them during an off-the-record presentation
at harvard university in boston.

cohen was quoted by the bbc as saying that the ecomog force,
which is dominated by troops from nigeria and ghana, could no
longer be considered peacekeepers because it has become engaged
against the rebel national patriotic front (npfl) led by charles
taylor.

''unfortunately, (ecowas) is no longer a neutral party,'' he
said.  ''they came in there as a neutral party hoping to bring
about a mediation, but they are now one of the combatants.''

he went on to say washington will push the u.n. security
council to intervene to devise a political solution in the war-
torn nation where a ceasefire announced earlier this week never
took hold.

the remarks echoed complaints by taylor that ecomog could no
longer be considered neutral.  taylor has also called for u.n.
troops to replace the west africans.

boucher said that washington ''strongly supports the efforts of
(ecowas) to bring peace to liberia'' and that ''west african
peacekeeping forces are a vital part of the ecowas peace plan.''

u.s. support for ecomog ''has not changed,'' he insisted.

he added that ecowas itself asked the u.n. secretary-general at
its latest summit in ajuba last weekend to appoint a special
representative to cooperate in the implementation of a regional
peace plan going beyond liberia it
(story received incomplete)
p058
From: barrett@daisy.ee.und.ac.za (Alan P Barrett)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.african
Subject: Re: South African Expression
Date: 21 Nov 92 23:45:52 GMT
Article-I.D.: daisy.1em3lgINN44h
Organization: Dept. Elec. Eng., Univ. Natal, Durban, S. Africa
NNTP-Posting-Host: daisy.ee.und.ac.za

In article <9211201644.AA01424@nms.netman>,
kartik@hls.com (Kartik Chandrasekhar) asks about a word which literally
meant "meeting in the bush":
> 	It sounded very similar to the native American POWWOW and 
> appeared to be a popular expression in South Africa.  I do not 
> know if the word is afrikaans but it sounded local to South Africa.

As Chris Pinkham said, the Afrikaans word "bosberaad" does literally
mean "meeting in the bush".  (I think that "bosberaad" is a neologism
coined during the De Klerk reign, which might or might not disquailfy
it as a "popular expression".)

Perhaps you are thinking of the Zulu word "indaba", which literally
means "business", but also refers to a meeting of exactly the type that
I think "powwow" refers to?  (I found both "indaba" and "powwow" in the
Concise Oxford Dictionary, BTW.)

I cannot think of a South African word that *sounds* similar to "powwow".

--apb
Alan Barrett, Dept. of Electronic Eng., Univ. of Natal, Durban, South Africa
RFC822: barrett@ee.und.ac.za                    Bang: m2xenix!undeed!barrett
Newsgroups: soc.culture.african
From: gds@casper.cs.uct.ac.za (Riel Smit)
Subject: Re: Kou-wa-banga Afrikana! (was Re: Walt Mweene Disney does UCT)
Reply-To: gds@cs.uct.ac.za
Organization: Computer Science Department, University of Cape Town
Date: Mon, 23 Nov 1992 07:25:07 GMT

pmmst8+@pitt.edu (Paul M Mweene) writes:

>To start with, this dialect, Afrikaans is the reason why 1000 children 
>were massacared by boers in 1976 (WHEN THEY REFUSED TO LEARN IT). 

Ahem, minor point: the children were not massacred when they refused to 
learn Afrikaans.  Indirectly yes, but not directly.  Firstly, they did not
refuse to learn AFrikaans - they objected to other subjects like Maths and
Science being taught to them in Afrikaans (I would object too if I were in
their position).  They got killed in the fighting that broke out as a result 
of their protest marches (which weren't paragons of peaceful protest).

Note: there is NOW WAY that the deaths of the children in 1976 (or later) can
be excused.  It should not have happened, and the government was guilty.
However, it was not as if the Afrikaners had said "Hey, look, these kaffirs
don't want to learn Afrikaans, let's get them".

>This apartehid alnguage should be kept off
>the net otherwise create your own news group, "rec.afrikaans.boers"

And what should we do with those blacks whose mother tongue is Afrikaans?
Are they boere as well?
-- 
Riel Smit,  Computer Science                              gds@cs.uct.ac.za
University of Cape Town                      gds%cs.uct.ac.za@rain.psg.com
From: beshir@csd4.csd.uwm.edu (Abubaker Ali Ibrahim)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.african
Subject: test-ibrhaim beshir
Date: 16 Nov 1992 20:39:03 GMT
Organization: Computing Services Division, University of Wisconsin - Milwaukee
Distribution: world
NNTP-Posting-Host: 129.89.7.4
Originator: beshir@csd4.csd.uwm.edu

test

Newsgroups: soc.culture.african
From: faa@athena.cs.wayne.edu (Felicitas A. Atabong)
Subject: Re: POLYGAMY: GOOD OR BAD???? (Was: Walt Mweene Disney does UCT
Organization: Wayne State University
Date: Mon, 23 Nov 1992 16:48:31 GMT

In article <Nov.22.12.31.31.1992.18360@occlusal.rutgers.edu> shemlon@occlusal.rutgers.edu (Shiyghan Shemlon) writes:
>In article <1992Nov21.131627.21877@lut.ac.uk>, M.Titahmboh@lut.ac.uk (Mana TitahMboh) writes:
>
>NB:
>---
>I will vote for POLYGAMY over PROSTITUTION if it will stop the pread
>of AIDS in Africa. Call me whatever you like.
>
>
Just out of curiousity, how will polygamy stop prostitution in Africa?
Do women practice prostitution because they can't find a man to marry?

Feli.
From: gavan@elc.mth.uct.ac.za (Gavan Tredoux)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.african
Subject: Re: Star Editorial (long - was Re: Scandal alert: more to follow)
Date: 19 Nov 92 15:11:25 GMT
Article-I.D.: ucthpx.1992Nov19.151125.9394
Organization: University of Cape Town
X-Newsreader: Tin 1.1 PL4

mokaba@binah.cc.brandeis.edu writes:
: High! hello!! is anybody there... Gavan ... Mr Tredoux... remember your
: fierce attacks against the ANC claiming they were just paranoid when they
: reported the existence of operation springbok and ...
: Now that this is from the commission what do you say sir? any comments?

Darling Mokaba, put your sweet lips a little closer to
the keyboard (let's pretend that we're together, all alone ...).

Some scandals have foundation, others do not, eg. Goldstone's
rebuttal of Weekly Mail reports about undercover police operations in the
Vaal Triangle (the Mail blithely brushed this aside as usual
but what's new?). I'm watching the latest with interest; it doesn't
surprise me much, after all these people are still at war in many ways.

Er, news that seems to have slipped through the cracks is the disclosure
by the ANC at the weekend that Self-Defence Units on the reef need to
be brought under control. A little late for that now. But then they also
claim the SDU's have been infiltrated, to give the ANC a bad image. 
But then so it seems has the entire Nat Exec. Sigh, just can't win.

Gavan Tredoux
Dept Math / Dept Philosophy
UCT 
Newsgroups: soc.culture.african,misc.activism.progressive,soc.rights.human
From: ltt75326@acuvax.acu.edu
Newsgroups: soc.culture.african
Subject: Re: Yep, it is there!  re: Homo-sexuality in Africa
Date: 20 Nov 92 14:50:30 -0600
Organization: Abilene Christian University

Please, I would like to make a motion we cut this thread on the 
subject of homosexuality in Africa. The allegations are ranging
from the ridiculous to the sublime and there is no longer any
real information showing up... Anyone second the motion?

And, by the side, I did raise the question of the rampant spread
of aids in East Africa and can't recall any respones to my call
for affirmative action against the epidemic. What can we do for 
the millions infected and the millions who might be saved the 
horror? 

Mulungu anafurinda,
L.T.
From: gds@casper.cs.uct.ac.za (Riel Smit)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.african
Subject: Re: South African Contacts
Date: 18 Nov 92 10:22:51 GMT
Article-I.D.: casper.Bxwq64.Kn8
Reply-To: gds@cs.uct.ac.za
Organization: Computer Science Department, University of Cape Town

heidi@ucthpx.uct.ac.za (Heidi de Wet) writes:
>Perhaps a health warning should be attached to all postings from 
>certain users?
>     "The Attorney General has determined that reading Hardy Hulley 
>      postings can be injurious to your hold on reality."

And don't forget to add Paul M Mweene to the list. :-)
-- 
Riel Smit,  Computer Science                              gds@cs.uct.ac.za
University of Cape Town                      gds%cs.uct.ac.za@rain.psg.com
From: Mike.Hahn@p57.f714.n7102.z5.fidonet.org (Mike Hahn)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.african
Subject: Usenet
Date: 19 Nov 92 07:56:00 GMT
Organization: FidoNet node 5:7102/714.57 - The Mutant Pencil's, CT


 * Copied from UNICOM conference on Fidonet by Steve Hayes

Hello Steve,

You posted a message from soc.culture.african which I don't have here to 
quote, but someone wasn't quite sure if UWC receives email. UWC does indeed 
receive email and is TCP/IP connected as well. I don't know what the position 
is with newsgroups.

I wasn't sure if this information would interest you personally, but I don't 
know how to send a message to a newsgroup. Can it be sent via uucp?

Cheers,
Mike


--  
INTERNET: Mike.Hahn@p57.f714.n7102.z5.fidonet.org
via:  THE CATALYST BBS in Port Elizabeth, South Africa.
       (catpe.alt.za)   +27-41-34-1122 HST or +27-41-34-2859, V32bis & HST.
From: linda@frcs.Alt.ZA (Linda Jacobson)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.african
Subject: Re: Scandal alert: more to follow
Date: 17 Nov 92 21:57:55 GMT
Article-I.D.: frcs.1992Nov17.215755.5479
Organization: Onderstepoort School of Veterinary Science, University of Pretoria

Thus spake tonyp@ucthpx.uct.ac.za (Tony Putman):

> Surely testimonies before these commissions are done under oath.  Does
> anybody know if these people who are found to have lied or who have
> admitted lying are going to be charged with perjury?  I would have thought
> that the judge could have ordered an investigation, but I haven't heard
> of this being done.

Do you actually know of _anyone_ who has been charged and convicted of
_any_ crime as a result of these commissions? We will have to start
calling them omissions before long.

Linda
 
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
Linda Jacobson				'That's fine, boy, never mind
Department of Medicine			 the tulips.'
Faculty of Vet Science			     
Onderstepoort, South Africa			(Hunter S. Thompson)
From: Wally.Walters@p0.f20.n7101.z5.fidonet.org (Wally Walters)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.african
Subject: Upcoming trade war
Date: 15 Nov 92 22:09:00 GMT
Article-I.D.: catpe.2918.2B07E82D
Organization: FidoNet node 5:7101/20.0 - Unisa Editorial, Pretoria


 AV> I'd like there to be a discussion of how any upcoming trade war
 AV> between the US and the EC will affect Africa.  I am quite concerned.

The core idea that we "Business Africans" of various colours and
political persuasions throughout the continent begin to believe
is that the "war" will be a good thing!

Although everyone sees short-term problems in the case of specific
commodities, we believe that for the first time in history, Africa
as an entity will be able to decide on a common strategy and future
purpose which will take into account the existing diversity.

Without having to be careful about upsetting the controller of
each specific "sphere of influence", and with a spot of economic
pressure, we believe that we can get Africa going to the point
where we can stand proud amongst the world community.


--  
INTERNET: Wally.Walters@p0.f20.n7101.z5.fidonet.org
via:  THE CATALYST BBS in Port Elizabeth, South Africa.
       (catpe.alt.za)   +27-41-34-1122 HST or +27-41-34-2859, V32bis & HST.
From: philip@concave.cs.wits.ac.za (Philip Machanick)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.african
Subject: Star Editorial (long - was Re: Scandal alert: more to follow)
Date: 17 Nov 92 11:18:32 GMT
Article-I.D.: shannon.1992Nov17.111832.4492
Organization: Computer Science Dept, Wits University
X-Xxdate: Tue, 17 Nov 92 12:53:56 GMT
X-Useragent: Nuntius v1.1.1d12

As promised in my earlier posting here's more. Front page editorial
comment
from the Star:

The Truth Must Out

The Goldstone Commission revelations yesterday provide irrefutable
evidence
of moral corruptio, not to say depravity, at the highest level of the
South African Defence Force.

These revelations will send the country reeling -- yet, paradoxically,
they
will not come as a surprise to those who have watched, dismayed, as
military paranoia and deceit have grown by bounds in recent years.
o it is chilling enough to learn that Military Intelligence hired
  notorious double murderer Ferdi Barnard to head a covert unit that would
  use prostitutes, homosexuals and drug dealers in a dirty-tricks
operation
  against Umkhonto we Sizwe. Is willingness to murder Barnard's key
  qualification?
o more chilling still is to discover that the operation originated with
the Chief
  of Staff Intelligence, Lieutenant-General Rudolph (Witkop) Badenhorst,
  and ended with the intervention of the Minister of Defence himself.
o But it is most chilling of all to realize that this operation began only
  last year, in the midst of what is supposedly a time of reconciliation,
  and that there are hundreds of MI files that have yet to be examined and
  which may offer proof of other indefensibile activities.

Can it be that we are about to find out more about the sinister Third
Force -- or at least one limb of it?

Blind Eye

Judge Goldstone's investigation has raisde appalling questions. Did the
State President and his Cabinet know nothing of this plot? Does their
fiefdom hold so little sway that they cannot deliver on their promises
of good government and good faith in negotiation? Have they lost control
of their own security forces? Or are they simply still turning a blind
eye?

We do not know the answers yet. Nor are we so naive as to imagine that the
SADF has a monopoly on dirty tricks.

What we do know is that President de Klerk dare not turn down the
Goldstone Commission's recommendation that it be authorized to
investigate,
as a matter of urgency, all formal and informal security forces in South
Africa, including certain private "security firms". The country could not
withstand another cover-up; neither could De Klerk's own reputation.

A boil has been lanced and the ugly truth is beginning to come out. We
can only hope it comes out fast enough to stem the violence and anarchy
that is engulfing the country.
--
Philip Machanick
Computer Science Dept, Univ of the Witwatersrand, 2050 Wits, South Africa
philip@concave.cs.wits.ac.za  phone: 27 (11) 716-3759  fax: 339-7965
From: barrett@daisy.ee.und.ac.za (Alan P Barrett)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.african
Subject: "Attacking the African culture"
Date: 17 Nov 92 12:27:57 GMT
Article-I.D.: daisy.1eaaedINN407
Organization: Dept. Elec. Eng., Univ. Natal, Durban, S. Africa
NNTP-Posting-Host: daisy.ee.und.ac.za

In article <VS8SBPQJ@cc.swarthmore.edu>,
imofoke1@cc.swarthmore.edu (Ivan Mofokeng) writes:
> Dave man, thanks for these few words man.  I wish that most the white
> audience out there can learn to accept this.  Better still, learn to live
> confortably with the fact that their cultures are not so godly afterall.   

I think that most of the people in this group do realise that there
is both good and bad in almost all cultures.

> i will like to think that there will be no need for my brothers makala
> and mweene to throw the f- and other unpleasnt words at white people had
> they not devoted so much time in attacking the african culture.

As far as I can tell, the people whom Makala has been attacking have
*not* been "attacking the african culture".  If you think otherwise,
please refresh my memory.

> i do understand that there are some bad things in every culture and that
> there is a need for some of them to be changed, but as an african i am
> tired of seeing white people constantly attacking my culture without
> once acknowledging the good things in it.

I am sorry that you feel that way.  Here, let me say it out loud if it
will make you feel better:  I think that there are plenty of good things
about traditional Arfican culture.

> i am wondering then whether this is another of those excercises meant to
> marginalise us.

Sorry, I don't understand what "this" refers to.

--apb (Alan Barrett)
From: pmmst8+@pitt.edu (Paul M Mweene)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.african
Subject: Re: SADF Admits All - Project Mweene
Date: 20 Nov 92 03:32:31 GMT
Organization: University of Pittsburgh

>In another shocking development, the Duchess of York (popularly
>known as "Fergie") has been romantically linked to P. (Project)
>Mweene. Buckingham Palce spokesman, Brigadier ffoulkes-Smith (retired)


Can we please stop mentioning eacch others name. Just because it
is our (mis)fortune to use the same met does not mean we have be
come bosom pals. In any case there are enough Africans to be fri
ends with in S Africa if your passion is to be an Africans friend.


makala
From: gds@casper.cs.uct.ac.za (Riel Smit)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.african
Subject: Re: Absence of black posters from SA
Date: 16 Nov 92 06:22:45 GMT
Article-I.D.: casper.Bxsppy.BKJ
Reply-To: gds@cs.uct.ac.za
Organization: Computer Science Department, University of Cape Town

pmmst8+@pitt.edu (Paul M Mweene) wrote:
>>>I know boers, they are all liars down to the last one

>gds@cs.uct.ac.za responded:
>>Oi, so I suppose it is OK for a boer to say "I know kaffirs, they are all
>>no-good down to the last one"?

pmmst8+@pitt.edu (Paul M Mweene) replied:
>No, one is a racist label (Kaffir) the other is an Arabic word intended to 
>denigrate non-muslims and was applied to the Europeans the Arabs fought in so 
>many crusades. 
>
>Later on, the Boers turned around and used it on other people. Boers gave 
>themselves the name Boer which means farmer in dutch. Deny it?

Oi, so I suppose it is OK for a boer to say "I know blacks, they are all
no-good down to the last one"?

See Makala, the racism does not lie in the name calling.  It lies in the
judgement of all of a particular kind, based on one's miopic view and
(maybe) very limited experience of (maybe) a few people of that kind.

Ah, what am I doing replyig to Makala?  I'm not qualified to speak in his
eyes, so let's not waste the pearls...  ;-)

-- 
Riel Smit,  Computer Science                              gds@cs.uct.ac.za
University of Cape Town                      gds%cs.uct.ac.za@rain.psg.com
Newsgroups: soc.culture.african
From: bross@splatter.nas.nasa.gov (Wilson S. Ross)
Subject: Re: GAY AFRICANS CORRECTION
Organization: NAS Program, NASA Ames Research Center, Moffett Field, CA
Date: Tue, 17 Nov 92 01:13:37 GMT

For what it's worth, I recall reading that homosexuality exists among
vertebrates in general. The only specific non-human instance I remember 
is of geese in a book by Conrad (sp?) Lorenz, the founder of the field of
ethology I believe. Lorenz describes how a female goose may manage to 
become a 3rd member of an existing male pair.

Another factoid: in Western societies at least, there are more male
than female homosexuals. I will guess at numbers based on vague recollection: 

    10% of males have had an experience of some sort
    4% are strongly id'd as gay
    1% of females are lesbian.

This would be an excellent time for a gay villager to come out of the closet.
If there is in fact a genetic basis for homosexuality, it would be interesting
to see the test results for different races. I don't think that homosexuality
is learned; if it really is absent in rural African villages, I suspect it
would be due to survival pressures restraining it somehow.

Bill Ross