From: bavafa@netcom.com (Hooshyar Naraghi)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.iranian
Subject: Re: Spiral (Re: Gerd)
Date: 20 Nov 92 10:27:44 GMT
Organization: pich-pichi

In article <1eg21pINNecp@cascade.cs.ubc.ca> fayegh@cs.ubc.ca (David Fayegh)
writes:
>
>And a discussion among those sitting gerd-e meydoon begins ... 

Hi Dave!  Can I join the discussion, please?  It's so interesting (thanks
amoo joon).

I had siad:

>|>What a fascinating [(c) Mr. Spock, ~65] observation, amoojoon.  It seems
>|>to me we humans are attracted to the concept of roundity [(c) bavafa, 92].
>|>Everthing round is one phenomenon that we have adopted from nature.  You
>|>already cited several natural objects (ie, not made my humankind) that
>|>suggest that 'roundedness' has been there long time before we were created
>|>on this planet.  But, this does not end the beauty of gerdally discussing!

>talking about `gerd' things, I was just reminded of gerd-bAd  and gerd-Ab
>Can gerd be used to derive a word for spiral ? ascending spiral? descending
>spiral? multiscending spiral [(c) --df].

How correct is it to translate spiral as 'pich-pichi?'  Any better word?
Your perspective is another interesting way to look at gerdness.

>|>Let me share one view, if I may:  How about the concpet of perfection or
>|>'kamAl?'  Never mind my FArsi doostAn, let's try to translate this word. :-)
>
>Generally speaking, one must realize that one can not achieve perfection,
>while, at the same time, trying to approximate it :-).
>Anyone with a dictionary?

Sure.  But one attempts to _approach_ perfection.  I would like to think
that perfection is the final destination, the approximation is one _method_
by which one could approach 'kamAl.'  While humankind would never reach
the absolute, nevertheless, his/her genetic spiritual code 'kamAl rA
mitalabad (mikhAhad).'  Please forgive me if I understood you wrong.  When
I read your above sentence it brought me to the realm of 'kamAl khAhi.'

What I am trying to say - and I am already running out of words due to my
lack of ability to articulate the point the way I would want to - is that
regardless of whether or not we can achieve perfection in the final
analysis, there is something in us that desires perfection.  I consider
this a human attribute that I do not find in other kingdoms.

>|>If we accept dAyereh is really the most perfect object that we know today,
>|>then we might consequently ask what is the message hidden in things being
>|>round, at least from our limited understanding of the universe - of course
>|>if we believe that there ought to be a message.
>
>In some ways, perfect mathematical `objects' such as a one-dimensional
>point, a two dimensional line, circle, etc., a three dimensional surface, 
>a more-than-three, multi-dimensional hypersurface, etc. may be 
>viewed as ``ideal'' concepts that we can only approximate  in practice.
>For example, we may mathematically 
>define a ``point'' as an object without any length, width, or depth.
>Similarly, we may define a line as the shortest distance between two
>points without any width or depth. In reality, however, 
>we can only approximate these ideal mathematical objects.

OK .  .  .

>Independent of how hard we try,
>by definition, we can never actually achieve the ideal, we can only
>approximate it. The closer the approximation, the happier we seem ...

A true point!

>|>I say EQUALITY and UNITY.
>
>These are ideal concepts that we can only approximate  ...
>The problem seems to be that we don't even have an ideal concept
>of `equality' and `unity' yet (but we are sure working on it :)

Correct again.  Through education and teachings we _approach_ perfection.
The closer we get to the 'kamAl,' the more comfortable we will be with
perfection's products such as equality and unity.  I admit I was not clear
when I equated gerdAli to equality and unity.  If one approaches
perefction, s/he would also manifest certain attributes such as unity,
equality, love of all peoples of the world, helping the oppressed and 
the needy.

>How is the following by khayyam for something circular :-)
>
>engAr ke har che hast dar 'Alam neest
>				pendAr ke har che neest dar 'Alam hast

You got me Dave!  I don't know what to get out of this one.  Any other
taker?

Happy pich-pichaki until next gerd-e meydoon-hamAee!

It is nice to see you back at sci.

Regards,
Hooshyar F. Naraghi
bavafa@netcom.com
(415) 322-8056
Newsgroups: soc.culture.asean