HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: erck03@castle.ed.ac.uk (John Wexler)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.celtic
Subject: Re: The UK Press DID mention Sinead O'Connor's cute little performance
Date: 9 Oct 92 14:23:05 GMT
Organization: Edinburgh University Computing Service

The morning after this thing happened, BBC Radio 4 DID give it a mention in
the breakfast time news program.  It was reported, without much comment
or explanation, but with about fifteen seconds of her singing followed
by the noise of paper being torn.  The most striking thing was how very
very badly she sang - without tone, without tune, without any presence
or enthusiasm.  Perhaps it came across differently to those who saw her,
but to me she sounded as if she had lost confidence and forgotten what
she was trying to do, and was simply pressing blindly on with a
half-planned stunt.  That's my impression; nobody on the radio said
anything like that.  In fact nobody said much about it at all.  They
just said who she was, what she did, and where and when.
    John Wexler
    Edinburgh
Newsgroups: soc.culture.celtic
From: keeshu@paramount.nikhefk.nikhef.nl (Kees Huyser)
Subject: Re: Need help with museum piece/cup/"mether"
Organization: the National Institute for Nuclear Physics and High Energy Physics; the Netherlands
Date: Fri, 16 Oct 1992 10:57:25 GMT

In article <Bw5pJu.5w1@agora.rain.com> trifid@agora.rain.com (Roadster Racewerks) writes:
#
#
#I'm in a pickle. I want to carve for my household use a "mether", the old
#Irish "friendship cup" with four (or less) handles and four lips to drink from.
#I have a very nice illustration...a scientific-grade etching from the turn of
#the century. Lots of detail, remarks on the kind of wood usually used, in fact
#*everything* except a single solitary word on how *big* the thinks usually
#were! (And the illustration either never had any common object shown for scale
#reference, or the editors of the book cropped them out of the pictures...)-:
#
#Can anybody here help me? The book was published in Ireland, so I imagine the
#original items are there. I've only found one other set of illustrations, from
#a book on early Scotland, and once again, no sizes given (although they may be
#illustrated at full size). If I'm going to all the trouble to make a reproduc-
#tion, I don't want to guess if at all possible to avoid it...
#

Write to the National Museum in Dublin, they might be able to help you.

	National Museam of Ireland
	Attn. Dr. Eamonn P. Kelly
	Acting Keeper of Irish Antiquities
	Kildare Street
	Dublin 2
	phone: (01) 618811
	fax:   (01) 766166

--kees
-- 
* Kees Huyser   	(System Adminstrator and resident Macintosh Guru )  *
* internet: keeshu@paramount.nikhefk.nikhef.nl		 AppleLink: HOL0397 *
* The National Institute for Nuclear Physics and High-Energy Physics, CSG/K *
* P.O.Box 4395,  1009 AJ Amsterdam,  The Netherlands,    phone:+31205922132 *
Newsgroups: soc.culture.celtic
From: bosullvn@unix1.tcd.ie (Bryan O'Sullivan)
Subject: Re: Sinead O'Connor's cute little performance
Organization: Department of Computer Science, Trinity College, Dublin, Ireland
Date: Sat, 10 Oct 1992 21:03:22 GMT

dresler@cabell.vcu.edu (Dan Resler) writes:

>ulick@angelico.helios.nd.edu (Ulick Stafford) writes:

>>Americans!!  Taking this seriously:-).  Unless you hadn't noticed Ms. 
>> O'Connor's
>>entire act from her hairdo, illegitimate child, abortions, the bullshit
>>about the American flag a while back are all designed to shock, to help her
>>sell more records.  

>This is too harsh; call her naive, confused, even foolish, and I
>would not protest. I do not believe, however, that she is insincere.

I agree.

>For better or worse, Sinead has a large following in Ireland. Even
>the Taoiseach met with her several months ago to hear her views.
>But, of course, that might say more about Reynolds than Sinead
><grin> ...

Hmm; I think she is fast eroding her support.  People may like her
music, but I don't know anybody who pays much attention to her
attention-seeking antics.  As for the Country and Western Taoiseach,
he'd do better to pay attention to his coalition partners than to
some loudmouth pop singer ;-)

>>it was covered on the front page of the University rag.  It would be much 
>>better to ignore her.

>Ignoring her will not make her go away. Stop buying her records,
>however, might do the trick.

It appears she's trying that too.  At least, her latest album is
of a similarly abysmal quality to her rantings.  All IMO.

	-- Bryan

--
Bryan O'Sullivan                                        bosullvn@unix1.tcd.ie
Department of Computer Science                     "Pieces of nine, pieces of
University of Dublin                                nine!" -- a parroty error
Newsgroups: soc.culture.celtic
From: ntaib@silver.ucs.indiana.edu (Iskandar Taib)
Subject: Re: Samhain, how to celebrate...
Organization: Indiana University
Date: Tue, 13 Oct 1992 22:48:04 GMT

Has anyone done the trick with the blindfolded audience...

Collect a pair of peeled grapes, a turnip, a leather glove, a fish
fillet, a sponge...put everything into a bowl of cold water.

Blindfold about a half dozen kids, sit them in a circle. Or do this
in the dark.

Start telling a story like this one...


"Once upon a time, in Ireland, there lived a very, very bad man. His
wife, though she knew he was bad, loved him greatly. One day he didn't 
come home so she went out into the bog to look for him. She didn't 
go far before she found his hand (pass the glove around). She went 
another half mile, and she came upon his eyes (tongue, liver, head, 
brain etc.) (pass the grapes (fish, turnip, sponge etc.))...."





-- 
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Iskandar Taib                          | The only thing worse than Peach ala
Internet: NTAIB@SILVER.UCS.INDIANA.EDU |    Frog is Frog ala Peach
Bitnet:   NTAIB@IUBACS                 !
From: mmh@cs.qmw.ac.uk (Matthew Huntbach)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.celtic
Subject: Re: Celts-Christianity-Catholicism
Date: 14 Oct 92 08:24:31 GMT
Organization: Computer Science Dept, QMW, University of London, UK.

From DOWNEY@ENH.NIST.GOV Mon Oct 12 19:16:28 1992
>  Again, this is further support.  Rather than "spreading the
>  word" these early saints chose to pursue intellectual
>  activities.  Let's see, wasn't intellect an important
>  part of ancient Celtic culture, i.e. the bard or historian
>  of a group?  And, ancient Celtic culture is classified as
>  pagan not Christian.  I'm trying to illustrate an integration
>  here, rather than a replacement.

An extremly weak link. "Early Irish Christians were
intellectuals, therefore they were really pagans". I am not
saying that racial or cultural features completely disappeared
when peoples converted to Christianity. It is no more
surprising that Irish Christianity should have some unique
Irish aspects than that, say Ethiopian Christianity should have
some unique Ethiopian aspects. In both cases the geographical
remoteness added to the difference.

However this does not mean, as some would like to think, that
Irish Christianity was in some sense more pagan than any other
form of Christianity, or that the Irish saw themselves as in
any way in opposition to the Universal Church as represented by
the See of Rome. Part of your problem is that you are
supposing, wrongly, that the RC Church was at that time as
centralised as it is now. Clearly it could not have been given
the barriers to communication that existed then.

Matthew Huntbach
Newsgroups: soc.culture.celtic
From: ntaib@silver.ucs.indiana.edu (Iskandar Taib)
Subject: Re: Sinead O'Connor's cute little performance
Organization: Indiana University
Date: Mon, 12 Oct 1992 17:45:25 GMT

In article <15973@umd5.umd.edu> spinoza@next01wor.wam.umd.edu (Yon Bonnie Laird of Cairn Robbing) writes:

>Apparently, her stand  
>on things Vatican is also colored a bit by her affiliation with  
>Rastafarianism

Really? Thats interesting.. I thought Rastas wore long hair in 
thick braids...


-- 
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Iskandar Taib                          | The only thing worse than Peach ala
Internet: NTAIB@SILVER.UCS.INDIANA.EDU |    Frog is Frog ala Peach
Bitnet:   NTAIB@IUBACS                 !
From: spinoza@next01wor.wam.umd.edu (Yon Bonnie Laird of Cairn Robbing)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.celtic
Subject: Re: Sinead O'Connor's cute little performance
Date: 8 Oct 92 16:38:27 GMT

In article <1992Oct7.103918.27427@prl.philips.nl> lynch@prl.philips.nl (B.  
Lynch 42262) writes:
> In article <23464@optima.cs.arizona.edu> gln@cs.arizona.edu (Gary L.  
Newell) writes:
> > I just want to know "What is her point?" What the hell is she  
supposedly
> >standing for? Anything? Why is the pope "the real enemy"? Does she have
> >any grand view which explains any of her behavior or is she simply a
> >twit trying to behave as if she has important things to say? 
> >
> >			gln
> >
> >
> Could someone please put those of us who haven't had the chance to see  
this
> programme out of our misery and tell us what she actually did ?
> 
This may already have been covered; I'll just summarize:
after a rather screechingly bad interpretation of the Bob Marley song  
"War", Sinead started screeching about fighting the real enemy, produced a  
picture of John Paul II, and commenced to ripping. Apparently, her stand  
on things Vatican is also colored a bit by her affiliation with  
Rastafarianism (in addition to her stands on abortion and Ireland), a  
belief system incorporating worship of Haile Selassie ("The Lion of  
Judah"), the former Emperor of Ethiopia. Which brings us to the second  
part of the problem. Ms. O'Connor was, at the time of her little diatribe,  
wearing a necklace with a Star of David attached (a Washington Post  
article on the subject says that the Star has significance in  
Rastafarianism as well. Selassie claimed descent from David thru Solomon  
and Sheba), possibly giving the impression that she was Jewish . The  
Anti-Defamation League of B'nai B'rith called a press conference the next  
day to condemn pope-bashing in general, ad Ms. O'Connor's stupidity in  
particular (presumably to head off any problems with those who might not  
take kindly to local Jewish communities if they felt said communities were  
into such tacky behavior). 

cheers
jeff skorecki-weiss
Newsgroups: soc.culture.celtic
From: ray@philmtl.philips.ca (Ray Dunn)
Subject: Re: Mr. Walker's comments about welfare in Mississippi and Alabama
Organization: On the Brew.
Date: Fri, 9 Oct 1992 02:50:25 GMT

In referenced article, shazam@drycas.club.cc.cmu.edu writes:
>I am sick and tired of people who have never stepped foot here,
>talking abotu how bad things are here and how the peopel whould
>ise together to help these people.

Perhaps you are sick of it, but what they say is true isn't it?

>Some of these peopel 
>are happy the way they are beleive it or not.  They do not want help.

My god, do people still think this way?  It's a long time since I've heard
this one, "happy the way they are" indeed!  You've managed to take my
breath away!

In Scotland in the bad old days, one phrase was "there's no point in
providing a bath, they'll only keep coal in it" (to get the discussion
marginally back to s.c.c).

>In my opinion, the Welfare program has been abused.  Welfare is
>for peopel who are temporaily out of work and cannot provide
>enough for their family; it allows them to eat.  We have too many
>families who think it is a way of life.  That is wrong.

What, I wonder, do you suggest is a "solution" to this problem?  Have you
ever considered that for far too many families welfare is the only option
available to them?  What do you think would happen to your society if
welfare was withdrawn?  Why do you think welfare is provided at all in your
country where anything with a socialist taint is supposedly an anathema?

>I hope this has cleared the matter up....if you have any other
>comments please make them to me, and not to the list.  I 
>will be glad to clear anything else up, if it is needed.

Far from clearing anything up, it has muddied the waters very considerably.

Why are you so desparate to avoid a discussion in public in this newsgroup
(usenet does not have "lists")?

>Have a nice day!  *smile*

(shudder)
-- 
Ray Dunn at home        |  Beaconsfield, Quebec  |  Phone: (514) 630 3749
ray@philmtl.philips.ca  |  dunn@cam.org          |  uunet!sobeco!philmtl!ray
Newsgroups: soc.culture.celtic
From: james@wrs.com (James Moore)
Subject: Re: Scottish Newsgroup
Reply-To: james@wrs.com
Organization: Wind River Systems
Date: Thu, 15 Oct 1992 21:13:34 GMT

Various people write things like:

>||I've brought back
>||Irish bacon to the States with no problems.
>|| 
>||I think that US Customs has a specific problem with haggis, though, from
>||what I've heard.
>|
>|It isn't meat that's the problem, it's haggis. It is haggis which has
>|been deemed unfit for human consumption and it is haggis which as been
>|banned. Other meat is less restricted.

I just called the US Department of Agriculture.  The basic rule is that
meat imports depend on the disease status of a country, and currently
you can't import any meat products from the UK.  Haggis sometimes gets
singled out because customs officers don't realize it has meat, but
there are no special rules covering it, other than the general prohibition
on UK meat.

Commercially canned, hermetically sealed products are not covered by
the ban, so if you can find haggis cooked in the can, you're all set.

The Republic of Ireland is slightly different; you can import pork
products from the Republic, but no beef or mutton.  Northern Ireland
is covered by the UK ban.  Apparently, British and Irish frontier
patrols are so good they can even stop bacteria from crossing the
border :-).

If you need to know more details, call your local US embassy or
USDA office.  The phone number here is 510-273-6276.

-- 
James Moore                            /|\                        james@wrs.com
Wind River Systems                     \|/                  Alameda, California
	 "Half of what he said meant something else, and the other half
			  didn't mean anything at all"
From: mackenir@dcs.glasgow.ac.uk (Innes MacKenzie - The Littlest Hobo.)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.celtic
Subject: Re: Wanted: Demonstration ideas
Date: 16 Oct 92 19:05:42 GMT
Organization: Glasgow University Computing Science Dept.

ag129@cus.cam.ac.uk (Alasdair Grant) writes:

>In article <CC.92Oct16120005@arran.dcs.ed.ac.uk> cc@dcs.ed.ac.uk (Chris Cooke) writes:
>Labour
>>getting 50% of the Scottish vote.  At the last election the got 39% I think.

>39% could easily elect them in a "two big parties and lots of splinter

Oh no! You don't mean...surely not! You mean the party with the most votes
might get to be the government!!!!!

>groups" situation, let alone a three-party situation, even with STV or
>anything else.  Actually, what are the SNP's post-independence policies?
>If they turn into the right-wing kind of Nationalist party, then the 

Yes, this is true. It's all a front, they aren't really left wing at all.
Yup.

>Tories would be the moderates...

	titter.

-- 
Newsgroups: soc.culture.celtic
From: silva@pangea.Stanford.EDU (Holly Silva)
Subject: Re: Mr. Walker's comments about welfare.
Organization: Stanford Univ. Earth Sciences
Date: Wed, 14 Oct 1992 00:42:19 GMT

 halpin@vax.oxford.ac.uk writes:
>>> 
>I thought this was all about
>the essentially innocuous post (if socialist and perhaps thereby
>unacceptable by definition in the US 

	Graham Walker mentioned the deep Delta South in a list of
deeply impoverished localities he'd included in a rebuttal to one
of Nattering Newell's many flame baits. Newell's post was chock full
of patently obvious sarcasm regarding the consumeristic nature of his
life. Graham took his words as though Newell were talking straight, 
and proceeded to deliver up a little smug diatribe against Newell 
on account of his ah, consumeristic greediness. It was something on
the order of " don't brag about the food you have, there are people 
starving in India.", said to a man who was 'bragging' about the 
meatloaf dinner his wife had planned for him that evening.

>But looking back throught the
>backlogue here I get the strong impression that it is still really
>about (or at least fuelled by) the US-bashing contre-temps and
>backlash of some way back. 
>
	Yes. That is what it's fueled by, although the argument
has grown a bit broader than that.

>[.....] but I think
>the use of terms like ``PC-bigot'' is just intellectually bankrupt.
>
	
	Suzanne Sims is decidedly _not_ left-of-center, and
Graham Walker, Aengus Lawlor and Mr. Dunn seem to feel that
her verbose display of less-than-politically-rectitudinous thought
validates their attacks upon her. This is cheap; it is a function of
what I can only term PC-bigotry. By that I mean the sort of 'reverse'
bigotry which permits one to treat an open rightwinger or conservative 
with more contempt than one would use in disagreement with a moderate, 
or liberal. It is this intrinsic lack of fairness that I would tend to 
label 'intellectually bankrupt'. 
	Truly 'intellectually bankrupt' argument in re: Dunn's original
flame of Suzanne Sims would have involved casting apersions on aspects
of his character which did not enter into the discussion, or even aspects
of his political/social views which had no bearing on the discussion.
But his leftish-righteous display of pique in response to her post
was rife with bigotry, of the kind I just described above. If the term
PC-bigotry is not appropriate to convey this, then please, find a better
one.
>Brendan Halpin                    Email: HALPIN@VAX.OXFORD.AC.UK


--
======================================================================
|| Holly Silva			I have nothing terribly clever to say||
|| Applied Earth Sciences	today.  You're in luck.		     ||
|| Stanford University						     ||
Newsgroups: soc.culture.celtic
From: guy@infotec.ch (Guy)
Subject: Re: Ugly Americans-It's not our fault
Organization: Infotec S.A.
Date: Wed, 14 Oct 1992 17:24:58 GMT


>I just had to post something on this.
>According oto the University of Michigan (press release of 
>Oct. 5, 1992) its not our fault that southern Americans 
>are teh way we are: its the result of our forebearers, 
>with the blame evenly divided between "swashbuckling 
>English cavaleirs" and "reinforced, some years later, 
>by immigrants from the Irish and Scotch border lands."

Interesting. But how can anyone explain that the European 
countries where these violent types originated from
have much lower rates of violent crime than the USA ?

Scottish and Irish people also went to Australia, New Zealand
and Canada. If they carried with them a violent culture,
what happened to it ? These places are today safer for a 
young man than US cities.

Maybe the USA has a violent culture because violence was
needed to remove the indigenous peoples so that Europeans
could have the country ?

Perhaps Australia and New Zealand are more peaceful because
there were fewer aboriginal people to kill before
establishing European "civilisation". Once started, cruelty 
is a kind of information which has a life of its own.

In a way this violence is a curse from the extinct races
who had North America before the USA got it.

THIS IS NOT A NATIONALISTIC ATTACK ON MODERN AMERICANS.

If you disagree, please leave nationalism out of the
flame. After all, it was Europeans who started the 
extermination. 

Guy Roberts.

PS. It would also be convenient for my hypothesis if you 
ignore the Franco-Prussian war, WW1, WW2, and modern
Yugoslavia, these are abberations. ;-) :-(

-- 
Guy Roberts (guy@infotec.ch)Infotec S.A.
phone: 022 738 44 33        8, avenue de Frontenex,
fax:   022 786 50 61        Geneve, Switzerland.
From: gln@cs.arizona.edu (Gary L. Newell)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.celtic
Subject: Re: SNL 10/4/92- What did Sinead tear up?
Date: 8 Oct 92 19:44:21 GMT
Organization: U of Arizona CS Dept, Tucson

In article <8OCT92.01104730@enh.nist.gov>, downey@enh.nist.gov writes:
> I may not agree with everything Sinead does or says, but she certainly
> has a right to speak up about women's issues in her own country.

 I agree of course that she has a right to speak up and probably some
level of responsibility to do so considering her visibility, my only
question is why do it on an American TV show? We are not a nation 
that is 90% catholic nor do we ban abortion (perhaps I should say yet)
or divorce. Assuming she was in fact being critical of the church's`
influence in Ireland, then her performance seems poorly thought out.
I think most people, like myself, just sat there thinking "what the hell
was that all about"? What is her point? 

> Unfortunately, some (most?) of the time, one man's theology has resulted
> in woman's subjugation and subordination.  Patriarchy is integral to
> Catholicism.

 I think it is fair to say that the position of women in most christian
religion is not particularly one of control, with few exceptions. In this
country it is the extreme right of predominantly protestant groups which
is at the front of most anti-choice campaigns and anti-gay and 
anti-non-traditional families....


				gln
From: cc@dcs.ed.ac.uk (Chris Cooke)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.celtic
Subject: Re: Sinead O'Connor's cute little performance
Date: 8 Oct 92 13:04:22 GMT
	<1992Oct7.155411.9657@noose.ecn.purdue.edu>
	<1992Oct8.075858.26318@dcs.qmw.ac.uk>
Organization: Department of Computer Science, University of Edinburgh, Scotland

In article <1992Oct8.075858.26318@dcs.qmw.ac.uk> mmh@cs.qmw.ac.uk (Matthew Huntbach) writes:

   From: wb9tow@bluegrass.ecn.purdue.edu (Steven A Marquie)
   > I'm tring to understand present day Celtica.  I would think Sinead
   >O'Connor's actions would have been applauded by some.  After all, Catholics
   >stole our religion, destroyed our way of life, and exicuted tens of
   >thousands in order to spread their way.  Why let them continue taking
   >our morals from us?

   Oh, come on, the conversion of Ireland from paganism was
   remarkably peaceful. St Patrick, St Columba et al were not
   warriors. Irish culture and catholicism are intimately linked,
   not at oppostion to each other.

I thought Ireland was converted into the Celtic church, not the Roman
Catholic one.  It only became Catholic afterwards when travel between Rome
and Ireland became much easier, and emissaries arrived from Rome...?

I'd guess that Sinead's anti-Catholic protest was more about the Irish ban on
abortion and divorce and the Pope's anti-gay statements than about the
conversion of Ireland to Christianity.
--
	-- Chris. 	cc@dcs.ed.ac.uk   (on Janet, cc@uk.ac.ed.dcs)

		
Newsgroups: soc.culture.celtic
From: anil@cs.titech.ac.jp (Anil Bhatia)
Subject: Export 2nd hand cars  JAPAN=>IRELAND/SCOTLAND (biz.contacts wanted)
Organization: Tokyo Institute of Tech., Dept. of Computer Science, Japan
Distribution: soc
Date: Wed, 14 Oct 1992 18:01:48 GMT

We are looking for business contacts, 
people who are interested in importing cars to Scotland 
or Ireland. We can provide a VHS video tape of the cars.
Please reply by e-mail for further info.
Just out of interest:
For the fiscal yr ending April 91 here are some intersting stats:
400 2nd hand cars were exported from Japan to England.
16,000 2nd hand cars were exported to IRELAND!!
I want to find someone who can tell me why
(No stats availbale for Scotland, sorry)
Anil
e-mail anil@cs.titech.ac.jp
Fax: 81-44-411-9210
Tel: 81-44-411-7133