HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: military@att.att.com (Bill Thacker)
Subject: 50 Years Ago: Monday, 17 August, 1942
Followup-To: soc.history
Organization: NCR Corporation - Law Department
Date: Mon, 17 Aug 1992 12:35:22 GMT


From military@att.att.com (Bill Thacker)

Monday, 17 August, 1942

German forces capture Pyatigorsk and Yessentuki, and throw several
bridgeheads across the Kuban River.

Nine hundred Japanese troops are landed at Taivu Point and Kukumbona on
Guadalcanal.  

A group of US Marine Corps Raiders, led by Lt. Col. Carlson, land by
submarine on Makin Island in the Gilberts.  They destroy the seaplane base
there and kill the 90 Japanese soldiers on the island, losing 30 marines
killed.  Japan begins fortifying Tarawa Island, nearby.

The US Eighth Air Force, escorted by RAF Spitfires, conducts its first
independent raid on Europe, hitting Rouen, France.  Twelve B-17's
participate in the attack.

--	--	--	--	--	--	--	--	--
Bill Thacker			            military@att.att.com
Send submissions for "50 Years Ago" to military-request@att.att.com

"All men are dying serenely in battle." - final radio message from the
Japanese commander of Makin Island
Newsgroups: sci.military
From: Charles.K.Scott@dartmouth.edu (Charles K. Scott)
Subject: Re: Wake Island (WAS Re: 10 Worst Generals)
Organization: Dartmouth College, Hanover, NH
Date: Mon, 17 Aug 1992 12:43:37 GMT


From Charles.K.Scott@dartmouth.edu (Charles K. Scott)

In article <Bsw1rD.33M@lawday.DaytonOH.NCR.COM>
mat@mole-end.matawan.nj.us writes:

> What sort of losses did the Japanese fliers take?  Was the US resistance
> at Wake a factor in exhausting the pool of accomplished naval pilots?

I don't think the Japanese fighters lost anyone in this battle.  They
only appeared to support the third attack flying off one of the heavy
carriers assigned to the task.  By the time they showed up, only one or
two Wildcats were still flyable and they were quickly shot down.

Corky Scott

Newsgroups: sci.military
From: military@att.att.com (Bill Thacker)
Subject: 50 Years Ago: Friday, 31 July, 1942
Organization: NCR Corporation - Law Department
Date: Wed, 12 Aug 1992 20:42:46 GMT


From military@att.att.com (Bill Thacker)




From military@att.att.com (Bill Thacker)

Friday, 31 July, 1942

An amphibious force leaves Fiji bound for the Solomon Islands, escorted by
Task Force 63 under Admiral McCain.   Bomber raids begin against
Guadalcanal and Tulagi.

Another heavy RAF night raid hits Duesseldorf.

Soviet troops launch attacks near Rzhev.  Meanwhile the German offensive
continues across the Don River on a broad front.

The waters off Charleston, South Carolina are mined by a U-boat.

The carrier USS Essex is launched at Newport News, Virginia.

The governments of nine occupied nations request that President Roosevelt
issue a final warning to the Axis against cruelties committed in these
countries.

--	--	--	--	--	--	--	--	--
Bill Thacker			            military@att.att.com
Send submissions for "50 Years Ago" to military-request@att.att.com

"Recent developments have made it clearer than ever that the time has come
publicly to warn those who are responsible for the barbaric and inhuman
crimes committed daily." - statement from the Netherland Embassy on behalf
of nine occupied nations
Newsgroups: sci.military
From: ecrjbruce@economics.adelaide.edu.au
Subject: Re: Good Military Books?
Organization: Economics, University of Adelaide
Date: Mon, 17 Aug 1992 12:35:42 GMT


From ecrjbruce@economics.adelaide.edu.au


In article <Bsvn80.E9q@lawday.DaytonOH.NCR.COM>, born@iscsvax.uni.edu writes:
> 
> From born@iscsvax.uni.edu
> 
> I'm teaching four one hour class sessions on U.S. Military History to new
> Reserve Officer Training Corps (ROTC) students this fall.  The concentration is on
> leadership, valor, and military ethics.  If you had to choose two books to read
> on this subject, what would you choose?  I've considered a few but am
> interested in some fresh ideas.  Thank you in advance.
> 
>                                     Kevin Born, Department of Military Science
>                                     University of Northern Iowa

One of the books I found most inspiring when I was doing my Reserves Officer
training was "The Rommel Papers", which is basically taken from Rommels diaries
and includes his observations on warfare, tactics etc. and gives some very
important insights into how politics can sway the fortunes of the professional
soldier.  Well worth a read if only you can find it.

regs

Rob

Newsgroups: sci.military
From: "William M. Aldo" <nzt1939@dsacg3.dsac.dla.mil>
Subject: smoothbore
Organization: NCR Corporation - Law Department
Date: Fri, 21 Aug 1992 13:26:11 GMT


From "William M. Aldo" <nzt1939@dsacg3.dsac.dla.mil>

  Re: Smoothbore Weapons

>From billb@owlnet.rice.edu (William Stenson Blackwell)
>
>As I said earlier, I wasn't cuddled up with Jane's. But to answer a few
>questions that I do know (?):
>
>The reason that the 120mm M1Ax cannon doesn't have a HEAT round (?), if
>my memory isn't crashing now, is that it is a smoothbore and they can't
>manufacture a round that isn't APDS that has the proper accurracy.  The 

True, APDS or APFSDS may be more accurate, but the 120mm smoothbore does
have/utilize HEAT....and the 'accuracy' is not totally round-dependant. To hit
the target where you want, you'd better have a good boresight/zero. Even with
APDS/APFSDS, your accuracy is only as good as your zero; in fact...I don't
think the term 'accuracy' is correct here. In the proper hands, a HEAT round is
just as accurate as APDS/APFSDS, but reactive armor (and the likes) will cause
more problems for the HEAT than the higher velocity APDS/APFSDS.

On the old 105mm, the HEAT round had a velocity around 3000 FPS while the velo-
city of APDS was in excess of 4800 FPS. I'm sure the velocities went up notice-
ably when we went to the 120mm (I think someone posted the differences several
months back).

BTW, no flames intended.

--

Mark Aldo   UUCP: (osu-cis)!dsacg1!waldo   INTERNET: waldo@dsac.dla.mil
Defense Logistics Agency Systems Automation Center       | 614-692-8111
DSAC-ZTB, P.O.Box 1605, Columbus, Ohio (USA) 43216       | AV  850-8111
I'm not authorized to have an opinion....;-)

Newsgroups: sci.military,soc.history
From: military@att.att.com (Bill Thacker)
Subject: 50 Years Ago: Tuesday, 11 August, 1942
Followup-To: soc.history
Organization: NCR Corporation - Law Department
Date: Tue, 11 Aug 1992 17:51:10 GMT


From military@att.att.com (Bill Thacker)

Tuesday, 11 August, 1942

After a long and bitter fight, the Soviet Don River bridgehead at 
Kalach is eliminated.

Heavy Axis air raids hit the Pedestal convoy, and the carrier HMS Eagle
is sunk by the U-73.

Japanese forces slowly gain ground near Deniki, New Guinea.

The RAF launches a severe raid against Mainz.

--	--	--	--	--	--	--	--	--
Bill Thacker			            military@att.att.com
Send submissions for "50 Years Ago" to military-request@att.att.com

"The hour of liberation of France is the hour when Germany wins the war."
- Vichy Prime Minister Pierre Laval
Newsgroups: sci.military
From: ntaib@silver.ucs.indiana.edu (Iskandar Taib)
Subject: Re:  (Pre-)WW2 unit insignia id
Organization: Indiana University
Date: Thu, 13 Aug 1992 20:07:24 GMT


From ntaib@silver.ucs.indiana.edu (Iskandar Taib)

In article <1992Jul30.125205.18352@lawday.DaytonOH.NCR.COM> fiddler@concertina.Eng.Sun.COM (steve hix) writes:

>Was part of the 36th the unit that was tied down in (Italy?) for some
>time, eventually relieved by troops of the 442nd RCT (Nisei from Hawaii).
>If it was, I recall that most of the original composition of the 35th
>was from Texas.

Ha! Reminds me of another late late movie. A bunch of Nisei who had a 
Texan for a lieutenant. When in Italy he noticed that the local girls 
were all singing...


...
...
The eyes of Texas are upon you
Till Gabriel blows his horn

So he knew his former unit (a bunch of Texans) had just been through.
Lots of gags.. the guy didn't know Japanese swear words (Baka!) so he
didn't know the soldiers were swearing at him...There was also the 
time they were speaking Japanese over the field telephones because 
the Germans had tapped the lines...




-- 
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Iskandar Taib                          | The only thing worse than Peach ala
Internet: NTAIB@SILVER.UCS.INDIANA.EDU |    Frog is Frog ala Peach
Bitnet:   NTAIB@IUBACS                 !
From: swilliam@oasys.dt.navy.mil (Steve Williams)
Newsgroups: sci.military
Subject: Re: Use of snipers
Date: 20 Aug 92 16:46:20 GMT
Organization: Carderock Division, Naval Surface Warfare Center


From swilliam@oasys.dt.navy.mil (Steve Williams)


In sci.military, Tony.Buckland@mtsg.ubc.ca writes:

> Regarding the use of snipers in the current conflicts in the former
> Yugoslavia: is this the first time that sniping has formed such an
> important part of ongoing assaults and sieges?  I think of sniping
> as an auxiliary method, employing scarce experts, for keeping the
> opposition harassed and heads-down, but in this case it seems to vie
> with mortar fire as a primary method of inflicting casualties.

To your question, actually, no.  The Japaneses, Germans and Russians
used snipers extensively during World War II.  Snipers are more effective, 
I believe, to the defending troops or troops on both sides during a seige.
The Americans didn't use snipers much because the Americans were constantly
on the offensive move.

One sniper can tie down a large number of soldiers which can cause great
difficulty in overtaking a strategic position.   Furthermore, a sniper 
can select his target, and often he goes after a high-ranking officer.  
The death of such officer can cause temporary confusion for his men.

---------------------------------------------------------------------
 Steve Williams                           swilliam@oasys.dt.navy.mil
---------------------------------------------------------------------
Newsgroups: sci.military
From: Nicholas C. Hester <IA80024%MAINE.MAINE.EDU@VM1.gatech.edu>
Subject: Re: P-3's and Brunswick NAS
Organization: University of Maine System
Date: Mon, 17 Aug 1992 12:39:24 GMT


From Nicholas C. Hester <IA80024%MAINE.MAINE.EDU@VM1.gatech.edu>

In article <Bsw0M3.LuE@lawday.DaytonOH.NCR.COM>, wxb4@po.CWRU.Edu (William
Blighglover) says:
>
>        Does anyone know how many P-3's are stationed at Brunswick
>NAS?  When I took MCATS at Bowdoin one went overhead every 15
>minutes exavtly.  The last time I was there, I passed the base,
>and it looked like there was one low-visibility grey one and one
>white one taking off and landing alternately.  Are there any more
>planes on this base?  And were they really doing anything or were
>they trying to fool the taxpayer (or the Russians?)

According to a friend of mine who flew enlisted on P3Cs says that there
are 8 planes to a squadron, and a NAS normally flies 8 squadrons.  Four
are deployed, two squadrons are getting ready to deploy, and the other
two are in port.
___

    Nick Hester                     "Time time time
ia80024@Maine.bitnet                 for another peaceful war..."
ia80024@Maine.maine.edu                     - Warren Zevon
                                       "Roland the Headless Thompson Gunner"

Newsgroups: sci.military
From: rlbell@babbage.waterloo.edu (Richard Bell)
Subject: Re: depleted uranium
Organization: University of Waterloo
Date: Wed, 12 Aug 1992 20:44:14 GMT


From rlbell@babbage.waterloo.edu (Richard Bell)




From rlbell@babbage.waterloo.edu (Richard Bell)

The cost of DU depends on how it is produced.  In countries which require a
lot of enriched uranium, DU is essentially free, before machining costs.
An example is in order: the fuel for a submarine reactor is (so I am told)
97% U235 and the enrichment process is only 70% efficient; each kilogram of
enriched fuel produces 190 kilgrams of DU 'waste'.  The U.S. must have tons
of the stuff, same with the C.I.S. .  Canada, on the other hand, uses natural
uranium in its power reactors (.720% U235), so most of the DU in Canada is
trapped with high level rad waste, and any DU rounds would require U to be
mined strictly for DU round manufacture.

Most of the cost of DU rounds in the U.S. is from machining the metal, which
is expensive.


Newsgroups: sci.military
From: natola@coos.dartmouth.edu (Mark A. Natola)
Subject: Pease AFB/info/photos
Organization: D.M.S. Section of Neurology
Date: Fri, 21 Aug 1992 13:18:15 GMT


From natola@coos.dartmouth.edu (Mark A. Natola)

I am doing research on the former PEASE AFB, New Hampshire and am looking 
for photos/information about the base and the planes based there.  Any info/
photos would be appreciated.  Since photos may be rare, Open House pics and 
home movies would be fine.  Please e-mail me with any info.  Thanks!

Mark Natola

Newsgroups: sci.military
From: Steven.Schultz <Steven.Schultz@mixcom.mixcom.com>
Subject: -29 information requested
Organization: Milwaukee Internet Xchange BBS, Milwaukee, WI U.S.A.
Date: Tue, 11 Aug 1992 17:51:25 GMT


From Steven.Schultz <Steven.Schultz@mixcom.mixcom.com>

I have been looking through the information that I have, and have not
been able to find the aircraft known as the Sukhoi Su-29. If someone
out there with a Jane's could give me any information on it, or know's
anything of it, it would be greatly appreciated. Thanks.

-- 
Steve Schultz     Steven.Schultz@mixcom.com
From: nzt1939@dsacg3.dsac.dla.mil (William M. Aldo)
Newsgroups: sci.military
Subject: HEAT
Date: 20 Aug 92 16:36:06 GMT
Organization: NCR Corporation - Law Department


From nzt1939@dsacg3.dsac.dla.mil (William M. Aldo)

  Re: Smoothbore Weapons

>From billb@owlnet.rice.edu (William Stenson Blackwell)
>
>As I said earlier, I wasn't cuddled up with Jane's. But to answer a few
>questions that I do know (?):
>
>The reason that the 120mm M1Ax cannon doesn't have a HEAT round (?), if
>my memory isn't crashing now, is that it is a smoothbore and they can't
>manufacture a round that isn't APDS that has the proper accurracy.  The 

True, APDS or APFSDS may be more accurate, but the 120mm smoothbore does
have/utilize HEAT....and the 'accuracy' is not totally round-dependant. To hit
the target where you want, you'd better have a good boresight/zero. Even with
APDS/APFSDS, your accuracy is only as good as your zero; in fact...I don't
think the term 'accuracy' is correct here. In the proper hands, a HEAT round is
just as accurate as APDS/APFSDS, but reactive armor (and the likes) will cause
more problems for the HEAT than the higher velocity APDS/APFSDS.

On the old 105mm, the HEAT round had a velocity around 3000 FPS while the velo-
city of APDS was in excess of 4800 FPS. I'm sure the velocities went up notice-
ably when we went to the 120mm (I think someone posted the differences several
months back).

BTW, no flames intended.

--

Mark Aldo   UUCP: (osu-cis)!dsacg1!waldo   INTERNET: waldo@dsac.dla.mil
Defense Logistics Agency Systems Automation Center       | 614-692-8111
DSAC-ZTB, P.O.Box 1605, Columbus, Ohio (USA) 43216       | AV  850-8111
I'm not authorized to have an opinion....;-)
Newsgroups: sci.military
From: tobias@fermi.wustl.edu (Scott Tobias)
Subject: NOTAR
Organization: Washington University Astrophysics
Date: Wed, 12 Aug 1992 20:30:51 GMT


From tobias@fermi.wustl.edu (Scott Tobias)




From tobias@fermi.wustl.edu (Scott Tobias)


In article <1992Jul28.130833.25725@lawday.DaytonOH.NCR.COM> bspain@zeus.calpoly.edu (Bradley K Spain) writes:
>
>From bspain@zeus.calpoly.edu (Bradley K Spain)
>
>	However, in new jet and turbine engines (such as those driving
>the later model helicopters like the Blackhawk and the Apache) there are
>four sets of turbine fins.  The first two rotate in one direction, the
>second two rotate in the opposite direction.  This cancels out the 
>torque problem WRT the engines.  
>	As with helicopters, additional torque is applied from the main
>rotor, necessitating an anit-torque or tail rotor.
>

A couple of years ago, I read an article in Scientific American
I think describing an experiemental helicopter (called NOTAR)
that didn't have a tail rotor.  The torque from the main rotor
was balanced by the high speed circulation of air through a 
doohicky in the tail.  They had some really cool pictures of this
NOTAR flying very low with its tail stuck in a clump of trees
and so forth, demonstrating i guess its ability to fly with its
tail in trees...anyway, does anyone know what has become of this
design?  I forget who built it.  :(

[ mod note -- the NOTAR is being built by McDonnell-Douglas, and is in
production at this time.  The Phoenix Police Department got the first 10 or
so off of the line.  I don't remember what McD is calling it, but the
MD-530 comes to mind 

- Steve ]

Scott

 ------------------------------------------------------------------
|   Scott Tobias                 email:  tobias@fermi.wustl.edu    |     
|   Graduate Droogie                                               |
|   Department of Physics        "No ma'am, we're not musicians.   |
|   Washington University         We're physicists."               |
 ------------------------------------------------------------------



Newsgroups: sci.military
From: ntaib@silver.ucs.indiana.edu (Iskandar Taib)
Subject: Re: propeller planee's anti-torque problem
Keywords: engine torque, helicopters, jets
Organization: Indiana University
Date: Wed, 12 Aug 1992 20:19:27 GMT


From ntaib@silver.ucs.indiana.edu (Iskandar Taib)




From ntaib@silver.ucs.indiana.edu (Iskandar Taib)

In article <1992Jul28.130833.25725@lawday.DaytonOH.NCR.COM> bspain@zeus.calpoly.edu (Bradley K Spain) writes:

>	However, in new jet and turbine engines (such as those driving
>the later model helicopters like the Blackhawk and the Apache) there are
>four sets of turbine fins.  The first two rotate in one direction, the
>second two rotate in the opposite direction.  This cancels out the 
>torque problem WRT the engines.  
>	As with helicopters, additional torque is applied from the main
>rotor, necessitating an anit-torque or tail rotor.


As I said, I tend to take this with a huge grain of salt, unless 
the rotating mass of the turbines are great enough to have pre-
cessional effects. Turbines always have sets of stator blades in 
between sets of the rotor blades. This is so that when the air is 
passed back to the next stage it isn't whirling around at the same 
speed as the rotor blades, which would be darned inefficient. So 
net torque effects would tend to be zero and airflow through a tur-
bine would average out as straight through.





-- 
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Iskandar Taib                          | The only thing worse than Peach ala
Internet: NTAIB@SILVER.UCS.INDIANA.EDU |    Frog is Frog ala Peach
Bitnet:   NTAIB@IUBACS                 !

Newsgroups: sci.military
From: ntaib@silver.ucs.indiana.edu (Iskandar Taib)
Subject: Re: Using Heat Seeing Missles
Organization: Indiana University
Date: Wed, 12 Aug 1992 20:27:09 GMT


From ntaib@silver.ucs.indiana.edu (Iskandar Taib)




From ntaib@silver.ucs.indiana.edu (Iskandar Taib)


Someone (whose attribution string has been deleted a while back) 
writes:

>>>How does one avoid fratricide (not own-goals) with heat-seekers?


Its been pointed out to me that "fratricide" is one weapon killing
another weapon and an "own goal" (a term familiar to Soccer fans!)
is shooting down your wingman. No, I don't know how one avoids this
but it conjures up images of 3-4 Sidewinders playing follow-the-
leader ....






-- 
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Iskandar Taib                          | The only thing worse than Peach ala
Internet: NTAIB@SILVER.UCS.INDIANA.EDU |    Frog is Frog ala Peach
Bitnet:   NTAIB@IUBACS                 !

Newsgroups: sci.military
From: d89-jsp@nada.kth.se (Arthur Sparrendahl)
Subject: Re: depleted uranium
Organization: Royal Institute of Technology, Stockholm, Sweden
Date: Wed, 12 Aug 1992 20:45:15 GMT


From d89-jsp@nada.kth.se (Arthur Sparrendahl)




From d89-jsp@nada.kth.se (Arthur Sparrendahl)

In article <1992Jul28.130025.24034@lawday.DaytonOH.NCR.COM>, arw4@cunixb.cc.columbia.edu (Aaron R Wininger) writes:
|> 
|> From arw4@cunixb.cc.columbia.edu (Aaron R Wininger)
|> 
|> Question:what are the advantages to using depleted uranium in ammunition? 
|> How long until succesfully destroyed targets can be scrapped or cannibalized?
|> Aaron

As you probably know, 238U emitts very little alfa-rayes. Natural uranium is not
signifficantly more radioactive. 
This is from hearsay. Any corrections will be recieved with gratitude. Most 
actinoids are soft and reacts easily with water. I have heard uranium is an 
exception and very hard. I still beleave uranium reacts violently with water. 
Uranium ammo have a uranium core coated with other material. That is, there 
will be no alpha-radiation from the ammunition. There is allso shells with 
uranium shrapnel. Uranium is less dens than for instanse osmium but the prise
of a kilogram of uranium today is less than $20. Delpeated uranium is naturally 
more expensive to produce than natural uranium and there is no reason to prefere
it so I presume that it is generated as byproduct in some other industrial 
process like the production of nuclar fuel.
Uranium is perfectly safe to handle when it comes to radiation.

Arthur

Newsgroups: sci.military
From: "CINCLANTFLT PAO" <CLFPAO@nctamslant.navy.mil>
Subject: Navy News Service Headlines - 7 Aug 92
Organization: NCR Corporation - Law Department
Date: Wed, 12 Aug 1992 20:35:25 GMT


From "CINCLANTFLT PAO" <CLFPAO@nctamslant.navy.mil>


From "CINCLANTFLT PAO" <CLFPAO@nctamslant.navy.mil>

Here are the headlines from the latest issue of the Navy News
Service, the weekly summary of Navy news and information
published by the Navy Internal Relations Activity in Washington.
To receive a complete copy of this issue or to subscribe to
NavNews by e-mail, contact navnews@nctamslant.navy.mil. 

NAVY NEWS SERVICE - NAVNEWS 032/92 - 7 AUG 1992

     Navy News Service (NAVNEWS) contains official news and
information and is intended for distribution to all Navy people.
Please help pass the word.  NAVNEWS is available:
     -- by message to the NAVNEWS collective address 
     -- on the CNO Bulletin Board, 1-800-582-2355/6940 or (703) 695-
6198/6388 
     -- and on the BUPERS ACCESS bulletin board, 1-800-346-
0217/18/27, 1-800-762-8567 or (703) 614-8070/6059/8076, (DSN) 224-
8070
     -- by electronic mail from NAVNEWS(at)NCTAMSLANT.NAVY.MIL 
                               -USN-

TABLE OF CONTENTS FOR NAVNEWS 032/92
A. Top News and Policy Stories
     A1. EAGER MACE and NATIVE FURY Begin in Kuwait
     A2. Gulf Vets Health Problems Investigated
     A3. Navy Ship Assists in Cocaine Seizure
     A4. FY93 OSERB Schedule Set
     A5. Notable Quotable:  RADM Roberta L. Hazard
B. Around the Fleet
     B1. Guadalcanal Landing Anniversary Commemorated
     B2. Five Naval Aviators Die in Hawkeye Crash 
     B3. Navy Ships Sample Pacific Northwest Hospitality
     B4. WAVES Convention Celebrates 50 Years
     B5. This Week in the Navy:  Aug. 7, 1942 -- Marines land on
           Guadalcanal in the Solomon Islands
     B6. Speakers' Note:  Article excerpt on Guadalcanal Anniversary
C. Personnel Notes:
     C1. Submit "Dream Sheets" Electronically via BUPERS Access
     C2. Navy Selects More Than 1,200 LCDR Line Officers 
     C3. Job Fairs to be Held in the Far East
D. Short Splices      
     D1. Flag Move
     D2. Housing Update for Families Enroute to NAVSTA New York
     D3. Navy News This Week 
                               -USN-


Newsgroups: sci.military