From: dkarma@pro-nbs.acme.fred.org (Druta Karma)
Newsgroups: soc.religion.eastern
Subject: Re: Sex (was Re: Becoming aware)
Date: 9 Oct 92 03:18:26 GMT
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NNTP-Posting-Host: sandman.caltech.edu


In <1aqr86INNdjn@sandman.caltech.edu> Roger Adams <RADAMS@cerritos.edu> writes:

>In article <1aq7e7INN1jp@sandman.caltech.edu>, 
>dkarma@pro-nbs.acme.fred.org (Druta Karma) writes:
>
>> There is a pleasure connected with sex in order to insure procreation. But
>> that pleasure is also available to the cats and dogs. And if one is attached
>> to that level of pleasure, then one remains in the cycle of birth and death,
>> because in order to enjoy the pleasure of genital contact, one has to have a
>> material body. And the material body is subject to birth, death, old age, and
>> disease. So the pleasure of material genital sex is intimately tangled up with
>> the miseries of birth, death, old age, and disease. 
>
>If you like to eat certain foods like curries, that also is a material pleasure
>that one needs a material body to enjoy and, following your logic, we would
>have to keep taking on material bodies to keep fulfilling the desire for 
>culinary pleasure unless we either found some way to stop eating (which has
>been done by some saints but not necessary IMHO for graduating from the
>cycle of incarnations) or to cultivate a sense of indifference to tastes and
>the pleasure of eating which I also think unnecessary. 

You are right. But it is not my logic. In Bhagavad-gita (3.13) Krishna says to
Arjuna:

                        yajna shishtashinah santo
                         mucyante sarva-kilbishaih
                        bhunjate te tv agham papam
                         ye pacanty atma-karanat

"The devotees of the Lord are released from all kinds of sin because they eat
food which is offered first for sacrifice. Others, who prepare food for
personal sense enjoyment, verily eat only sin." 

The basic point of the bhakti-yoga system is that this material body is made
of senses. There are five knowledge-acquiring systems (eyes, tongue, nose,
ears, touch) and five working senses (arms, legs, voice, genitals, organs of
evacuation). Then there are three subtle elements: mind, intelligence, and
false ego. If any of the senses or subtle elements are used for material sense
pleasure, even in moderation, then that will keep the self attached to
enjoying through material senses in a material body and by the law of karma
one will remain in such a body, life after life, and have to undergo the
miseries of birth, death, old age, and disease in the wheel of samsara. But
the solution is not to withdraw the senses from activity, which is not
possible anyway. The solution is to put the senses in touch with spiritual
sense objects. So in the case of food, the solution is to prepare nice
vegetarian dishes as a love-offering to God (Krishna). This is very natural.
If you love someone, you prepare for them nice foods that they like. And while
you are doing that, you think of the person, and eventually you are happy to
offer the food to your friend in a loving way. So the devotee prepares and
offers food to the Lord in that same way. And in the Gita Krishna says that He
accepts such offerings. This acceptance results in a transformation--the
energy of the food is spiritualized, and has the effect of increasing one's
spirituality. And it is also enjoyable. But because of the change in
consciousness, this is beneficial and liberating. 

In another post, someone also mentioned seeing a beautiful sunset. According
to the bhakti-yoga system, if one simply tried to mentally enjoy the sunset on
one's own account, that would be a kind of material sense gratification, and
would keep one entangled in maya, the Lord's illusory energy. But if one
understands that Lord Krishna says in the Gita "I am the light of the sun and
the moon," and if one consciously appreciates the sunset as a reminder of
Krishna (just like if we see our child's toy, we remember our child), that
counts as spiritual. 

> As for sex, which can be argued to cause stronger attachments to a
>material body than food or sleep etc., moderation is also possible and also
>indicative of -  control of rather than slavery to - the senses, and therefore
>not incompatible to spiritual progress. It is true that great souls have
>no attachment to sex. This non-attachment is what is necessary but it comes
>first through spiritual understanding and moderation and not _forced_ celibacy 
>when the disposition for such a practice is lacking. I have heard of too many
>cases of perversions and sickness regarding sexuality of persons who for
>religious reasons have taken vows of celibacy without having the disposition
>for such a lifestyle and without having the whole issue of sexuality and 
>transmuting this force properly explained and well prepared for. 

Moderation is exactly the course that Krishna recommends in the Gita. Of
course, the moderation recommended in the Gita may seem severe to some.
Between the extremes of complete license and complete abstinence, there is the
kind of sex that is allowed according to the bhakti-yoga principles. And as I
have mentioned that is sex between husband and wife for the purpose of
bringing a spiritual person into this world as their child. Bhaktisiddhanta
Sarasvati, one of the great celibates in the recent history of bhakti-yoga,
said that if he could bring good children into the world, he would be prepared
to do so hundreds of times. The point that he was making is that sex can be
accepted in bhakti-yoga, but under regulations. And that is the whole point of
the yoga system--to control the senses rather than coming under their control.

It is very true that people who take vows of celibacy without experiencing the
higher spiritual taste of devotional service are going to find themselves in a
considerable amount of trouble. This may be very hard to understand, but there
is a pleasure that is higher than material sex. This pleasure is available
through the bhakti-yoga system. That pleasure, eternally present in each soul,
simply has to be brought out, just like fire is in a piece of wood, and it
comes out when brought in contact with something that is already on fire. The
pure devotee of Krishna is like a piece of wood on fire, and by coming in
contact with such a person, one can experience an awakening of spiritual
pleasure within one's heart while practicing devotional service to Krishna
(bhakti-yoga). As one becomes more perfect in bhakti-yoga, one becomes
situated in one's natural rasa, or loving personal relationship with Krishna.
After experiencing this, all other pleasures seem inconsequential. 

So the problem with many religious systems is they say don't do it, but don't
give anything to replace it (material sex), and thus you get into that
repression-frustration syndrome. And in the Gita Krishna says (3.33) nigrahah
kim karisyati: "what can repression accomplish?"  It is not wrong to desire
pleasure, but according to the bhakti-yoga system we simply must direct the
pleasure-seeking tendency toward the proper object. Actually, the bhakti-yogis
are the ultimate hedonists, in the sense that the enjoyment they experience in
their liberated spiritual forms with Krishna (the reservoir of pleasure) is of
a superior kind--unending, ever-increasing, and unmixed with any kind of pain
or anxiety.

Druta Karma
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