HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: actize@garnet.berkeley.edu ()
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
Subject: More Questions, etc.
Date: 27 Dec 1992 23:29:03 GMT
Organization: University of California, Berkeley
Distribution: ba
NNTP-Posting-Host: garnet.berkeley.edu

>Hello netters.  What's the counter to this move ?   Attacker & Defender face 
>each other as boxer usually do.  Attacker kicks defender in midsection with 
>rear foot.  Defender drops lead hand to down to deflect kick.  Attacker steps 
>in and punches the defender, who dropped his guard deflecting the kick . ???  

Is this tournament play with rules or self defense?  What kind of 
training can we assume for the defender?  Can he kick, catch and 
lock the attacker's leg, punch effectively?

Rules - light contact, defend self at all times,  kicks allowed anywhere
above belt, no catch and lock allowed, punch, kick and block allowed for
defender.

I'm trying to think of a hand-block hand-block sequence to defend against
this.  Down-blocking the kick and then reverse punch for the defender doesn't
seem realistic to me.  Maybe that's what the problem is.  Other opinions ?
From: tms@cs.umd.edu (Tom Swiss (not Swift, not Suiss, Swiss!))
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
Subject: Re: Sternum strike vs. Solar plexus
Date: 25 Dec 92 21:44:35 GMT
Organization: The Reality Liberation Front (pixels to the people!)

david@elwood.NoSubdomain.NoDomain (David Johnson) writes:
>
>The way I understand it, a sternum strike is not intended to break
>any bones.  It is intended to shock the heart.  When CPR was taught
>in the late 1970's they said to give a thump to the sternum of
>someone who just had a cardiac arrest (the mechanism is to cause a
>shock which defribrillates (sp?) the heart).  It was also taught in the
>class that the thump given to someone who does not have cardiac arrest
>might have one.

     For the record, the precardial thump is no longer part of the
CPR sequence. But you're right; a hard shot to the sternum can induce
cardiac arrest. I'm told it's not unusual in car crashes where the
driver isn't wearing a seat belt and runs chest-first into the steering-
wheel. A strong thrusting kick to someone whose back is against the wall
(so they couldn't move to absorb the impact) would probably do the trick,
but Bad Guys usually are so nice as to get in such a position.

>Also in CPR class they taught that compressing the xyphoid process
>can cause it to lacerate the liver resulting in some pretty nasty
>internal bleeding.  This is different from a strike to the sternum
>or solar plexus.

     Again, correct, but this wouldn't be a good stopping technique.

===============================================================================
Tom Swiss/tms@cs.umd.edu  |  "Born to die"   |   Keep your laws off my brain!
     "What's so funny 'bout peace, love and understanding?" - Nick Lowe 
                     Keep your values off my family.
   "All I kin say is when you finds yo'self wanderin' in a peach orchard,
    ya don't go lookin' for rutabagas." -- Kingfish
From: wrat@unisql.UUCP (wharfie)
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
Subject: Re: bear hug variation
Date: 21 Dec 92 21:58:02 GMT
Organization: UniSQL, Inc., Austin, Texas, USA

In article <1992Dec21.201402.2852@cbfsb.cb.att.com> osan@cbnewsb.cb.att.com (Mr. X) writes:
>	Uh... exactly HOW is your head supposed to wind up in the floor
>	when he has grabbed you whilst you were upright?  

	The way I do this is:

	When I attack with the bear hug I come in with my hips below
his hips.  When I lift as soon as I have his feet off the ground I swing
his body to the horizontal by "popping" or "rolling" my hips out to 
one side.  In class once I've got him horizontal I usually set him
down gently but I could turn him completely over if I wanted...

	Look at the judo throw called "ushiro goshi" - the rear hip
throw - for an example of what I'm talking about.

>	Another point to consider is that the guy hugging you has put his
>	two primary weapons out of commission (fists) which is good for you.
>	In addition, he is essentially blind, since you say he has hidden

	He's using his whole body as a weapon, and he doesn't need eyes
since at this point he's operating by feel.

	If you relax as totally as you suggest, wouldn't the guy just
switch to a chicken wing (a wrestling move like a hammerlock but with
the arm bent at a much more acute angle) or some other joint attack?
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
From: radner@cray.com (Lauren Radner)
Subject: Re: bear hug variation
Organization: Cray Research, Inc.
Date: 21 Dec 92 17:14:14 CST

In article <1992Dec19.175511.6289@desire.wright.edu> jchristian@desire.wright.edu writes:
>Okay, I have a question.
>
>Bear hug from behind, trapping arms by the sides.  Attacker has lifted you into
>the air; arms are trapped just below elbow level and you cannot use the ground
>for leverage.  Attacker's head is tucked against your back (near the bottom of
>the neck).  Attacker's legs are not behind yours, but they're not evenly
>staggered between yours either; they're sort of right next to them.  And the
>attacker's grip in front of you is such that the thumb joint of the right fist
>is driving into the lower part of the sternum.

Well, it seems you could still kick his knees/thighs, but your scenario
shuffled the below technique to the top of my memory so let me go to it,
instead... :

... forgive this for being quick (or be grateful, whatever), but there's
an interesting way to get out of this - unfortunately it takes more than
three seconds... so if the guy is only picking you up to slam you into the
ground, you'll have to try a different plan. Anyway, just wanted to pass on
a technique for getting out of this one.

Bend forward at the waist.

That's it. Really. Try it. It's interesting. Basically your upper body
moves away from the Bad Guy and pulls him into a bent-at-the-waist position
over you while your feet get closer to the ground until - Voila! - your
feet are *on* the ground... you can figure out the rest. It's a slow and
steady kind of thing. Just keep bending forward... the physics of it end
up with your feet on the ground eventually...


Similar slow but certain technique... if someone has you in a full nelson
(not as a hold that his buddies can take advantage of... it's just the
two of you)... if you're not interested in really hurting whoever it is (yet?)
and it's a non-threatening situation (like, it's your older brother doing this
or something, or just some idiot trying to muscle you around) you can do a 'snail' 
technique whereby you, basically, just slowly fold yourself down into a lump on 
the floor, the parts that are touching the floor are your lower legs from your 
knees down to your feet (can either have toes curled and bottom of foot on floor 
or knees, shins, and top of feet touching floor), forearms, fists/hands should be 
placed such that your forehead is resting on them (protection), and you are in a 
curled/hunched/crouched/pick-a-word position.  Like a foetal position but not on 
your side. Anyway, at this point, the Bad Guy can't break your neck (you're braced 
against the planet) and you both... just...  wait... As soon as he shifts his weight 
or hold to do something more interesting, you, of course, take advantage of it and
do the same.


-Lauren

From: Stovall@f88.n106.z1.fidonet.org (Stovall)
Sender: Jpunix@urchin.fidonet.org
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
Subject: Hapkido
Date: Mon, 21 Dec 1992 22:42:02 -0500

JF>...techniques do not appear to have been refined to such an
JF>extent, or seem to be as effective as those as those in either Ju
JF>Jutsu or Aikido.

I sense a bit of style prejudice here. Hapkido can be as eclectic as
JKD or as codified as Aikido, depending upon the instructor. While
the history of Hapkido is suspect at best, I think its effectiveness
is based on its pragmatism: it addresses all ranges of combat from
kicking to rolling in the dirt. Thus, while individual techniques may
be lacking, perhaps you'll agree that the overall effectiveness of
Hapkido is not at question.

JF>Most Hapkido Kicks are difficult to impossible to pull?  How do you
JF>train then?

I have to agree with you. We don't have any trouble pulling ours and
we spar two or three times a week.

JF>I notice Hapkido people don't wear body armor!

We wear a cup, shin and instep pads, forearm pads, chest protector,
head
gear and a mouthpiece.

JF>If the martial art teaches throws...then surely it should teach
JF>*Correct* falling...falling is fully accepting an attack and flowing
JF>with it so as not to get injured.

I agree, that's how we try to do it.

Our particular form of Hapkido incorporates kicks, punches, sweeps,
throws, locks, chokes, gouges, bites (!), and one weapon: the cane.
It's not the oldest, the most deadly, the most effective or any other
superlative...but it works for us.

Happy holidays,

Tom
___
 X SLMR 2.1a X My karate kid can whip your honor roll student...

Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
From: bobsarv@microsoft.com (Bob Sarver)
Subject: Re: Thai kickboxing
Date: 03 Jan 93 03:29:04 GMT
Organization: Microsoft Corp.
Distribution: usa


(bley)
  >That was his point.  That the the places and situations he felt he'd need
  >to use the art were, by definition, inappropriate for it.


(mary)
/The art?  Excuse me, the art?  The entire art has in it nothing appropriate
/for such situations?  


I never said that.  The long, unabridged form of what I mean was this:

Every style has a specific area that it focuses on:  hard movements vs. soft
movements, kicking vs. hand motions, blocking vs. grappling, etc.  No
art is perfectly well balanced among all areas, because the historical
forces which gave rise to each art were different.

Within each style, each school of training (dojo) also has its emphases.  
Some spend  a lot of time in the katas/poomsehs, and (relatively) little time
in the practical applications of the motions.  Hours and hours will be spent 
on getting the jump spinning heel kick just perfect, with very little time 
dealing with escapes from choke holds.  Other schools will reverse this 
priority.  Time is finite; they pick what they think is most important.
A school that emphasizes the traditional forms will put that at the top
of its list.  A dojo that is essentially a "fighter factory" will put
emphasis on in-the-ring skills.  Whether we like it or not, that's reality.

Muay thai seems to be a school where everything that is taught is useful
both in self defense and in the ring; i.e., there are no "for exhibition 
purposes only" motions in muay thai.  There were a LOT of "for exhibition
purposes only" special kicks in TKD.  

I would prefer to study an art with the highest "effort to practical 
usefulness ratio".  

Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
From: sog@craycos.com (Steve Gombosi)
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
Subject: Re: MA GIF Files
Date: 22 Dec 92 23:02:51 GMT
Organization: Cray Computer Corporation

In article <1992Dec20.115512.29004@odin.diku.dk> cthulhu@diku.dk (Stefan Krabbe) writes:
>ddewar@cbnewsb.cb.att.com (derek.a.dewar) writes:
>
>
>>To the guy who had the MA gif files :
>>Could you send them to rec.martial-arts as well as alt.binaries.pictures.misc,
>>as we have restricted access, and don't get that group.
>
>Yeppers.

Please don't even think of doing this. If you do, rec.m-a will doubtless be
dropped from many systems (like this one) because of the bandwidth and
space consumed those GIFs. In case you weren't aware, that's *why*
the "pictures" newsgroups aren't carried at a lot of sites.

Steve
From: jchristian@desire.wright.edu
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
Subject: Beer War
Date: 3 Jan 93 14:30:25 EST
Organization:  Wright State University 

Wow.  Is this Beer War ugly or what?  Consensus seems to be that a
misunderstanding occurred.  Hope it ends soon.

Jeff
From: esot@troi.cc.rochester.edu (Eric Sotnak)
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
Subject: Aikido in DC (directions, specific info needed)
Date: 23 Dec 92 22:44:11 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: University of Rochester - Rochester, New York


  I'm going to be visiting Washington DC from Dec. 27-30 and want to get in
some practice while there.

  Does anyone know (a) class times for Takeguchi Sensei's dojo and
directions to there from the DC Hilton, or (b) Whether Saotome Sensei will be
holding regular classes 6:30-8:45 pm on the 28th or 29th and directions to
there from the DC Hilton?

  Additionally, does anyone know anything about the George Mason Aikido Club
in DC, or about the organization Aiki Kokyukan?

--
********************************************************************
Eric Sotnak                   |  One life.
esot@troi.cc.rochester.edu    |  One chance.
From: acharya@HYDRA.ROSE-HULMAN.EDU
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
Subject: Kotegaeshi (wrist/forearm technique)
Date: 29 Dec 1992 15:21:10 GMT
Organization: Rose-Hulman Institute of Technology
Reply-To: acharya@HYDRA.ROSE-HULMAN.EDU
NNTP-Posting-Host: hydra.rose-hulman.edu

a few posts ago, andy says:
"kote gaeshi is NOT a wrist technique, but one for the forearm"

could you expand on that? do you mean that the arm should be straighter,
i.e. the effect is more a 'shearing' rather than bending effect on the
wrist?

-mukund
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
From: jon@zeus.med.utah.edu (Jonathan Byrd)
Subject: Re: Judo.  A technique that has worked for me.
Date: Thu, 17 Dec 1992 17:22:33 GMT
Organization: University of Utah

In article <4395@unisql.UUCP> wrat@unisql.UUCP (wharfie) writes:

   In article <1992Dec16.104028.27544@ms.uky.edu> taddiken@ms.uky.edu (scott taddiken) writes:
   >A technique which has worked well for me in recent years is one handed
   >kouchi gari.  Kouchi, as it is affectionately called, is the throw in
   >which your right foot (RF) grabs the heel of his RF as you drop him
   >straight down onto his back.

	   Kouchi gari means "little inside reap"; you pull his foot in
   the direction of his toes then knock him down.

As a tangential note, I was taught a variation of this technique in
Karate class.  The style is Wadoryu, and it was heavily influenced by
Judo.  A description follows:

Face your opponent with an opposite stance (if his right foot is
forward, your left will be forward, or vice versa).  Thus, your front
foot will be almost toe-to-toe with his front foot.

Close the distance with tsugi-ashi footwork, first bringing your back
foot halfway up toward your front foot, and then reaching around
outside your opponent's front foot with your front foot.  It is often
helpful to simultaneously reach forward with your lead hand, and
control your opponent's lead hand with a slight inward brush on his
forearm.

Pull your opponent's front foot toward you, as Wharfie described.  For
a split second, his balance will be gone, allowing you to land a
reverse punch to the body.  The target area is the ribs under the pit
of his lead arm.  You can also drop down to the floating ribs.

The main difference between the Judo version of ko uchi gari, and the
Karate version is that the Judo version uses a push, and the Karate
version uses a strike.  If there is no push, your opponent will only
lose his balance for a brief instant.  You must strike quickly.

--
jonathan byrd
jon@apollo.med.utah.edu
From: curt@access.digex.com (curt williams)
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
Subject: Re: Help on resuming training
Date: 24 Dec 1992 12:47:53 GMT
Organization: Express Access Online Communications, Greenbelt, MD USA
NNTP-Posting-Host: access.digex.com


Start over as a floundering white belt with an instructor who
will accelerate promotions as your condition warrants.  I start
over as a white belt (at least figuratively) every few years with great
benefit.  Have been doing so for twenty six years.
From: coombs@ivan.uucp
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
Subject: T'ai Chi or Pa Kua in Palo Alto area
Date: 29 Dec 92 22:47:25 GMT
Reply-To: coombs@parc.xerox.com ()
Organization: IRIS - Brown University

Sorry to repeat this request.  The headers on my postings are all wrong.
I'm at coombs@parc.xerox.com.

I would like to hear from people who have studied T'ai Chi or Pa Kua in
the Palo Alto area.  I see one school in the book and have run across a
poster.  It looks good from the propaganda.  But I suspect that there
are other options as well.  Thanks.  --Jim
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
From: osan@cbnewsb.cb.att.com (Mr. X)
Subject: Re: bear hug variation
Organization: Twilight Zone
Date: Mon, 21 Dec 1992 20:14:02 GMT

In article <1992Dec19.175511.6289@desire.wright.edu> jchristian@desire.wright.edu writes:
>Okay, I have a question.
>

	[description axed, etc...]

>(1)  Dropping your weight, slamming their face with the back of your head, and
>reaching their hands with yours are all nullified (you're in the air, their
>head is protected, and your arms are trapped just below the elbow).

	OK
>
>(2)  The thumb in the sternum is VERY painful.  You don't notice being
>suspended in the air so much as being attacked in the sternum.  Very difficult
>to tear your focus away from the thumb and to the real attack of the actual
>bear hug.

	In heat of combat, you may not even notice the sternum.  I would not
	sweat that part.
>
>(3)  You have about three seconds (a generous estimate) between the time the
>bear hug commenced and the time your head is being dropped against the ground. 

	Uh... exactly HOW is your head supposed to wind up in the floor
	when he has grabbed you whilst you were upright?  

>Less time if you're being thrown into a wall.

	This one could be a slight reason for concern, but you still have your
	legs that can be used to fend off the oncoming wall.
>
>We've found that the best time to deal with the attack is the moment you feel
>it happening.  


	You bet.

>It's an easy attack to pull off, and it's not too difficult to meet
>your goal of slamming the other's person's skull.
>
	Not too difficult to get out of either.  First thig to do is RELAX,
	both physically and mentally.  The physical relaxation will make
	you a VERY hard package to carry around, bear hug style.  Of course,
	you have to know how to properly relax (which is not as easy as it
	sounds).  

	Another point to consider is that the guy hugging you has put his
	two primary weapons out of commission (fists) which is good for you.
	In addition, he is essentially blind, since you say he has hidden
	his face to avoid a head butt.  Also, the first part that will hit the 
	wall will be his hands/wrists, which will not make him feel so hot.
	And turning you upside down to slam you into the floor, head-first,
	will be IMPOSSIBLE if you become like jello.  Give him no help and he
	will be shit out of luck.  Now he's stuck holding onto a clumsey
	package that could remove his face if he let's go.  Big quandary.
	Also, it should be easy to get your arms free if you are relaxed.
	In fact, they should slip right out of his grip.  Sounds crazy, but
	it works when you relax enough.  Water is hard to fight against!

	If Joe B. A. Dick wants to carry you around all night, let him.  All
	he'll acomplish is wear himself out.  Also, if he IS stupid enough
	to charge a wall,, a leg sticking out, off center, will cause a rolling
	motion to one side or another.  You have effectively redirected the 
	momentum such that HE winds up putting himself into the wall, or the
	surrounding furnishings/interior decoration.

	-Andy V.
From: david@elwood.NoSubdomain.NoDomain (David Johnson)
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
Subject: Re: MOTHER PICKS UP CAR
Date: 30 Dec 92 19:53:53 GMT

In article <1992Dec29.101540.3008@mtroyal.ab.ca>, mtambay@mtroyal.ab.ca writes:
|> >   +>>	Please pardon my ignorance and skepticism, but can anyone document
|> >   +>>these episodes in which a mother lifts a car to save her child?  I too have
|> >   
|> 
|> I first heard this story in Montreal in 1973, the last time I ran into this
|> story was in 1976 when my philosophy prof at UofM (Manitoba) put it in context
|> of cause, effect and the mind.  I'm paraphrasing "You heard of that woman lif-
|> ting that car to save her child but you don't hear of the damage she did to
|> her vertebrates.."  I don't know his sources but I wonder if this story is
|> an urban myth along with "this bridge/dam/skyscraper/beer vat has a worker 
|> buried in the foundations because they couldn't retreive him when he fell in."

One story I heard of the "mother lifts a car to save her child" the
mother did suffer quite a bit of damage to her vertebra and joints.
I think it is possible.  You all have heard stories of people on
PCP exhibiting the strength of several men.  My theory of why one
normally cannot lift a car is not because your muscles are physically
incapable of generating the necessary power but rather that defensive
mechanism built in your body prevents you from doing such things to
prevent injury.  Have you ever noticed that whenever you do get an
injury you unconsciously protect it?  I think PCP suppresses this mechanism
and that is how PCP users are able to generate such power.  My guess is
that these people are tearing up their own tissues at the same time
they are throwing police and ambulance workers around or breaking
restraints.

This subject sounds like it would make a good research paper.  I would
not be surprised if such research has already been done.

-- 
David Johnson
XLNT Designs, Inc. (XDI)
david@xlnt.com
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
Subject: Re: MOTHER PICKS UP CAR
From: mtambay@mtroyal.ab.ca
Date: 29 Dec 92 10:15:40 MST
Organization: Mount Royal College, Calgary, Alberta

>   +>>	Please pardon my ignorance and skepticism, but can anyone document
>   +>>these episodes in which a mother lifts a car to save her child?  I too have
>   

I first heard this story in Montreal in 1973, the last time I ran into this
story was in 1976 when my philosophy prof at UofM (Manitoba) put it in context
of cause, effect and the mind.  I'm paraphrasing "You heard of that woman lif-
ting that car to save her child but you don't hear of the damage she did to
her vertebrates.."  I don't know his sources but I wonder if this story is
an urban myth along with "this bridge/dam/skyscraper/beer vat has a worker 
buried in the foundations because they couldn't retreive him when he fell in."

MT.
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts