Newsgroups: soc.culture.china,soc.culture.taiwan,soc.culture.hongkong
Subject: Re: Is Hong Kong people Chinese? (Was: Re: Is Taiwanese CHinese?)
From: shaohui@oread.cc.ukans.edu
Date: 19 Dec 92 18:45:24 CST
Distribution: na
Organization: University of Kansas Academic Computing Serces

In article <1992Dec19.173139.27453@cs.brown.edu>, cs141049@cs.brown.edu (Hok Chung Tsang) writes:
> In article <1992Dec18.204832.16704@cbnews.cb.att.com>, liaohen@cbnews.cb.att.com (Heng-Hsin Liao) writes:
> |> 
> |> >> 
> |> >>> Remember the old story "White horse is not a horse"? This is logic of TIers. 
> |> >>> If this is true, one can argue that TIers is not Taiwanese.
> |> >>> 
> |> >> 
> |> >>I still don't get the analogy between these two. Can you explain to me?
> |> >> 
> |> > 
> |> >  Taiwan is a part of China. Taiwanese is a part of Chinese. If Taiwanese is 
> |> > not Chinese, the Cantonese is not Chinese, then... White horse is not horse.
> |> > 
> |> 
> |> I don't buy the analogy. Ask people in Guangdong whether Guangdong is part
> |> of PRC and ask people in Taiwan whether Taiwan is part of PRC, will you.
> |> Be respectful to people. They are no animal.
>  
     As a Cantonese, I will say yes I am a Chinese. It is a economic suicide 
to say that Canton is not a part of China when one third of its products are
sold in Chinese market beyoud Canton province and its labor and raw material
are heavily dependent on other parts of China. The same principle can also
apply to Taiwan. Right now, export to mainland has exceeded 10% of Taiwan's
total export. And while Taiwan's export to other traditional markets is
declining, export to mainland is growing more than 30% annually, the ratio is
keeping increasing. The trade surplus of Taiwan is largely composed of that to
mainland now, although by unfair trade police(Taiwan has strict regulation on
the import from mainland while Beijin's police is actually encourging the
import from Taiwan and tolerating the huge trade deficit). For a small island
whose economy is heavilly dependent on export, its economic prosperity has
already relaied on the police with mainland at a high degree. If TIers do not
face this reality, the results will be davastating to Taiwan and its people,
also to mainland China and its people(a war between mainland and Taiwan). This
is the reason that why majority on both side of strait do not want to see an
independent Taiwan. However, this is not a threatening to people in Taiwan,
rather it reflects the mainstream of current world affair: economic unity.
Look at European countries and north America. Lots of people in this world are 
certainly welcoming a new struggle among Chinese. If that unfortunately
happens, it is no good to people on both sides of strait. Maybe TIers think they
can get rid of it with an independent Taiwan. That is unrealistic if one only
examine its from geopolitic point of view, no need to metion economic, history,
and cultural reasons. I certainly do not agree some policies of CCP to Taiwan,
but I do not think that the independence of Taiwan is a good solution. Let's do 
some constructive works instead of destorying the old world and build a new
one(communism has try this way and has failed). Let's increase the
bidirectional(even one direction is also good if not better) commuication and 
economic cooperation to enlarge the common interests of both sides. When the
commonity is larger than disparity, a peacefully unification is inevitable.
Many people may think cooperation with CCP is unthinkable, but remenber the
world is changing, so do CCP. We needn't to push this process, many Taiwanese
are traveling in mainland China and invest and do bussiness there(ordinary
people are smarter than politician) now.
     I respect every person who dedicate to their believe with soul and body,
so to TIers belonging to this definition. But as a university student in 1989,
experience told me talking is more easy than action, imagination than facing
reality. A noble and innocent action can easilly turn into  power-chasing.
let's walk out of universities and our imaginary world, work with people on 
assembling line, talk to farmers and owner of small bussiness, you will find
their world is more simple and thruthful, which is I have done after risk my
life to my believe in "democracy" of China in 1989. Now, instead of shouting
democracy and science in the streets, I prefer working to increase the bussiness
oppertunity between China and America, to modornize China and to improve the
everyday wellfare of ordinary Chinese without radical change. And this is what
China is going now. For this reason, I, with others, am strongly against TI
movement, which brings radical change to the right way that we are going on
right now and contradict to the common interests of people on both sides, with
my soul and body if not even more. This is an open challenge.
     ***I will not answer any response following this article, political
argument is a drug, the more you use it, the more you loss in it*****
     ***I am so tired of talking and wasting time***
     
     a biochemist who cares about China.
                                  
> 	We have been dicussing whether Taiwanese are Chinese, not whether 
> Taiwanese are PRC'ese. You are off the point. 
> 	Moreover, there is no country in the world called The Republic of 
> Taiwan. However, I think you know of a country called The Republic of China, 
> where the people should be Chinese (not PRC'ese). If you say a Chinese is a 
> Taiwanese, that's wrong. But if you say a Taiwanese is a Chinese, there is 
> nothing wrong with it. Because ROC'ese are Chinese, just like the PRC'ese and 
> 98* of the HongKong'ese and the ~70% of Singaporean and the American Chinese. 
> Chinese is the big set that include all of us. Why can't you just convince 
> yourself that "Chinese" can be a term qualifying people's ethnic origin and not
> necessarily the specific place, street, apt no. that a person is originated in?
>  
> 	Please abandon the misconception that (Chinese==PRC'ese).
> 
> (form the compiler:
> 	syntax error at or near constant 'ese)?
> )
> 
> A KwaiChung'ese, who triples as a HongKong'ese and a Chinese,
> Douglas.
> 
> (Sometimes I don't wish I have to be this specific)
> 
> |> 
> |> >>> 
> |> >>> Hsi
> |> >> 
> |> >>Heng-Hsin
> |> 
> |> Heng-Hsin
Newsgroups: soc.culture.china