From: Tagi@cup.portal.com (Thyagi Morgoth NagaSiva)
Newsgroups: alt.magick
Subject: Crowley and the Morality of Magick
Date: Mon,  4 Jan 93 10:48:13 PST
Organization: The Portal System (TM)
Distribution: world
  <C09D3o.B8A@acsu.buffalo.edu> <C0ByrA.EGC@acsu.buffalo.edu>

93!01.04 e.v.

Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the Law.
The word of Sin is Restriction.


Peggy asks if these quotes are correct and then asks other important
questions:


     Also, take your fill and will of love as ye will, when,
     where, and with whom ye will!                          
          The Book of the Law 1:51


Response:

This is an excerpt from verse 51 (not its entirety) and is not 
the same in all versions.  This is how Crowley wrote it:


[51.] 
There are four gates to one palace;
the floor of that palace is of silver and
gold, lapis lazuli & jasper are there, and
all rare scents jasmine & rose, and the
emblems of death. Let him enter in turn
or at once the four gates; let him stand
on the floor of the palace. Will he
not sink? *Amn*. Ho! warrior, if thy
servant sink? But there are means

[page]

and means. Be goodly therefore: dress ye
all in fine apparel eat rich foods and
drink sweet wines and wines that foam.
[A word, perhaps 'last' or 'East', is 
scratched out beginning the next line.]
Also, take your fill and will of
love as ye will, when, where and with
whom ye will. But always unto me.


[The above is my interpretation of a photocopy of the written text.]

[I note that the marker of 'verse 51' is arbitrary, perhaps by
Crowley or a later editor.  In the original document there is
no numerical delineation other than this was from pages 14 and 15
of the written text.]

----------------------

For comparison regarding how much variation there is within the
many printings of _The Book of the Law_, I provide this rendition
from Grant and Symonds, which differs both from Crowley's written
version (of which I have provided an interpretation) and the others
which I have at my disposal (including that provided in
_The Equinox III:10_, edited by Hymenaeus Beta X', OTO).



51. There are four gates to one palace; the floor of
that palace is of silver and gold; lapis lazuli & jasper
are there; and all rare scents; jasmine and rose, and the
emblems of death. Let him enter in turn or at once the
four gates; let him stand on the floor of the palace. Will
he not sink? Amn. Ho! warrior, if thy servant sink?
But there are means and means. Be goodly therefore:
dress ye all in fine apparel: eat rich food and drink sweet
wines and wine that foam! Also take your fill and will
of love as ye will, when, where, and with whom ye will.
But always unto me.

_Magical and Philosophical Commentaries on THE BOOK OF THE LAW_
Edited and annotated by John Symonds and Kenneth Grant, 93 Publishing,
1974; page 138.


My understanding is that these are the words of Nuit(h) as
relayed by Crowley and, perhaps, his Holy Guardian Angel.
     


The second quote:

    "As ye will." It should be abundantly clear from the
     foregoing remarks that each individual has an absolute
     and indefeasible right to use his sexual vehicle in
     accordance with its own proper character, and that he
     is responsible only to himself. But he should not
     injure himself and his right aforesaid; acts invasive
     of another individual's equal rights are implicitly
     self-aggressions. A thief can hardly complain on theor-
     etical grounds if he is himself robbed. Such acts as
     rape, and the assault or seduction of infants, may
     therefore be justly regarded as offenses against the
     law of liberty, and repressed in the interests of that
     law.
          Aleister Crowley The Law Is For All pg 110


Response:

While this quote seems accurate enough, I would note for the
record that the entirety was edited by Israel Regardie and that
in the Symonds/Grant version of Crowley's commentary the words
'Law of Liberty' and 'interests of that Law' appear rather than
the ones which Regardie has seen fit to render.

***************************************************************** 


old Peggy:

The Crowley quote I referred to gives me the impression he 
thought it was (simply) WRONG to commit rape, molestation, and 
other acts of aggression.  (I don't know where the original poster 
found this quote, so maybe it wasn't really Crowley, maybe it was 
taken out of context, or maybe I misread it....  


Response:

I address this below.
 

New Peggy:

Questions:
1.) Is this quote accurate (did Crowley really say it)?


Response:

There are two quotes.


The first was written by Crowley yet he has claimed that this
was a revelatory text - i.e. that Nuit(h) was in communication
with him (perhaps via 'Aiwass').  This means that while Crowley
wrote the first Chapter of this book (and the succeeding two)
it is quite unknown who originally 'said' it.


The second was originally 'said' by Crowley.

The two of them seem to have various versions with regard to
punctuation.  I have never seen a copy of Crowley's original
draft for his commentaries.  All we can be sure of at this
point is that these are his words AS RELAYED BY ISREAL REGARDIE
(or Symonds/Grant if you'd rather).



Peggy:

2.) Is there another way to interpret this, aside from the way I 
    interpreted it?


Response:

Indeed there is.  I would suggest that the question about whether
Crowley thought such actions are 'simply wrong' is a very complex one 
and would take many quotes to establish.  My own opinion on this is
that Crowley does not condemn anything as 'wrong' in so many
words.  In the quote above (taken out of context from the rest
of his writings, by the way), he simply states that such actions
are 'offences against the Law of Liberty' and may be 'justly
repressed in the interests of that Law'.  I suggest that this is
much different than categorical pronouncement of such actions 
as 'wrong'.


Peggy:

3.) What is the "law of liberty"?


Response:

The Law of Liberty is, as far as I can tell, the 'Law of Thelema',
which is most popularly represented by the phrases:

'Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the Law.'
'There is no Law beyond Do what thou wilt.'

and
'The word of the Law is [Thelema].'

All of these are direct quotes from _The Book of the Law_ and
are expanded upon throughout Crowley's writings, but particularly
in Liber DCCXXXVII, _The Law of Liberty_, and Liber II, _The Message
of the Master Therion_.  Both of these are contained in _Equinox III:10_,
published by Samuel Weiser and available in most bookstores or via
mail order. 

Email me for more information.  If there is enough interest I may
post Liber II here.  The other is overly long and I would not take
the time to enter it by hand.


Peggy:

4.) How does this relate to Crowley's concept of Thelema (which
    now seems to me less amoral than before)?


Response:

As I imply above, Crowley's works are very complex and cannot be
summed up by small excerpts taken out of context.  If one is truly
interested in learning about Crowley's concept of Thelema, then
I would suggest reading his works in their entirety.

I've written a small piece entitled 'The Sin of Practice' which
ventures into this area.  If there is sufficient interest I'll post
it in alt.magick, as it has already appeared in an OTO periodical.

As I see it, Crowley didn't 'invent' the Law of Thelema.  This Law
is not in the least moral (i.e. proscriptive) but it is ethical
(i.e. descriptive).  It is more Buddhist than Christian in that
it simply provides a perspective from which one may act rather than
dictate how one SHOULD behave.  In this sense it is neither moral
nor does it say what actions are 'wrong'. 



Invoke me under my stars.  Love is the law, love under will.


I am I!


Frater (I) Nigris (666)