From: "James H. Kiley" <jkiley@andy.bgsu.edu>
Subject: Re: Ord Gods?
X-Gated-By: The Black Marble Wombat@morticia.cnns.unt.edu
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Organization: University of North Texas
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Date: Tue, 8 Sep 1992 16:54:07 GMT



On xxx, 8 Sep 1992, Colin J. Wynne wrote:

> "James H. Kiley" <jkiley@andy.bgsu.edu> writes:
> 
> > What I really more meant was, the Gods don't take an active hand
> > in the Wars against the Possibility Raiders because they exist
> > outside the realm of Possibilities.  I hope this makes some
> > sense--I'm trying to take the discussion beyond game mechanics here
> > and into Torg Metaphysics, such as they are...
> 
> Alright...metaphysics.  There are infinite reflections of each cosm
> through the infiniverse, but the god or gods for each cosm are
> constant through all of these different versions.  So, there are an
> infinite number of variations on Orrorsh, and the Sacellum god is the
> same throughout all.

Hrm.  Not quite sure about this one.  The god is the same in each one, but
is he the same guy?  Or is he rather an infinite number of identical guys?
What I'm getting at here is, is the Sacellum God of Orrorsh A aware of
events on Orrorsh B?  My thought is no.  But let's continue... :)

> e.g., there is an Orrorsh where the GM never got put into a maelstrom
> with the Heart of Coyote.  The Sacellum god in that version of
> Orrorsh is the same as in the Orrorsh that we all know and loathe (if
> you're a player, love if you gm).

Yeah, okay.  Same guy to the extent that he is one of the infinite number of
'twins'.

> Extend this to the fact that there exists a version of, continuing
> the example, Orrorsh with SPI ax 0, where there is no Sacellum, and
> things are much different.  Then there is also a version with
> 1,2,3...33 for a SPI axiom.  So, if the god is constant through all
> of these, why would he waste significant time on a measly SPI 17
> cosm, when he can devote the balance of his attention and power to
> helping preserve the SPI 33 version of Orrorsh, where belief in him
> is the literal truth?

Well, here's where we run into a basic disagreement.  I don't think they're
all part of the same guy, but rather reflections of each other.
And certainly where the spiritual axiom is lower he will be, to a certain
extent, a different god.  If your followers have belief that you actively take
part in their affairs with powerful miracles and such then you are not the
same kind of god as a semi-idle Core Earth Yahweh (Standard Torg Disclaimer
about Religions In A Game should be assumed here, folks)

Which brings to mind another point--how much reinforcement goes on between
the believers in a god, the spiritual axiom, and the power of the god?
Strikes me as one big four-dimensional net, ever-changing... [f(x,y,z)=...]

> Of course, he's basically a nice god, so he does help out all of his
> reflected cosms, but it's obvious where most of his attention goes.
> For those of you who like to see Apeiros and N.O. as the Pattern and
> the Logruss (sp?), why not add another dimension (or meta-dimension)
> to shadow and make each god his or her own 'pattern', to get cross-
> reflections of the worlds that worship him or her?

Ba.  Gack.  Whoo.  :)  Could be neat, though, depending on whether you take
Colin's view of the gods or mine...

> Is this metaphysical enough, JimBo?

It's a great start. :)

> CJW

JimBo Kiley, Astronomer Wannabe
jkiley@andy.bgsu.edu
The.Gaunt.Man@TorgMUSH
Newsgroups: alt.games.torg