From: indu@iss700.Columbia.NCR.COM ()
Subject: Re: Win win for Hindus, Muslims and Secularists
Originator: indu@iss700
Organization: NCR Corp, E&M-Columbia, Columbia, SC
Date: Thu, 07 Jan 93 18:51:22 GMT

To: selvakum@watserv1.uwaterloo.ca
Subject: Re: Win Win situation for Muslims Hindus & Secularists at Ayodhya

In article <C0F0o9.AsH@watserv1.uwaterloo.ca> you write:
>In bond@jupiter.sun.csd.unb.ca (Girish) writes:
>>In viswanat@ccwf.cc.utexas.edu (Viswanath Vadlamani) writes:
>>>[.....]
>>>The facts  before an independent india are:
>>>
>>>i) Mosque which was closed to prayer from independence.
>>                                           ^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>>>[.....]
>>
>>
>>    Nope! Muslims stopped praying at the Ram Janmabhoomi site in 1936.
>^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>
>    So what is to be inferred ?
>    Do you know why they stopped praying in 1936 ?
>                   Because they suddenly realized that Sri Rama
>                   was born right there on that spot ?? :-)

   Aha! Here goes professor Selava again, with his Rabid Dravidian concepts
   to attack Ayodhya this time.  

   Actaully the first recorded fight, acknowledged by the British happened
   in 1855. Any way, even Gurur Nanak has spoken about the attrocities of 
   Jabar (Babur) and his attacks on Ayodhya <Sikh sources, Rashtriya 
   Sikh Sanghatan>. 

   Other Historic evidences, archaelogical proofs may not mean anything to
   u is  a totally differnt matter, ofcourse.

   [Looks like  Selva in his research on Dravidian-Aryan myths lost touch with
    the recent History.]

>    Because some Hindu temples are not much used, can a group of
>    people go and pull it down ? Since several 'temples' such as
>    Belur and 'Konark' etc. are not used or not used much, can 
>    a group of people go and demolish ?? 

   [No! We can convert them, to LTTE training camps. ]

   Yes, if they too were constructed by demolishing "mosques"or 
   some thing like that.  Fortunately not so. And NOt the ones you mentioned.

>    The barbaric act of pulling down a mosque and especailly the
>    manner in which the hindu fundementalist forces mobilized the
>    support is truly despicable.

   Barbaric or Heroic,  people will tell. But your insistence in calling some
   ILLEGAL structure a mosque, gives lot of credibility to your argument. 
   Anyway, keeping in view of your opinions in other beliefs which Hindus
   hold verey dera, your terming the act as BARBARIC, is not unexpected. 

   Please go ahead sir! You could dare to utter some thing which even 
   the SUPREME COURT of INDIA could not dare to do so as of date.
   
   [Even till today the GOI papers and Court orders refer to that as
    Janmasthan].

>    1200 people dead !! ( some can quote figures of how many people
>                          are killed in road accidents etc.
>                          Ayodhya incident is a carefully planned 
>                          forced accident which
>                          in normal language is murder but since the
>                          number is large, massacre)

   What about the "road accidents" caused by terrorist gangs in PUNJAB 
   every day? Oh! sorry there were some train accidents and plane accidents?
   How about the mis-happenings in J&K? 

   If you say that the 1200 people were killed, and it was all planned
    may be. It may be true. In 1984, the anti-SIKH riots too were
   engineered by the CENTRAL CABINET  Minister for Information and 
   Broadcasting, H.K.L.BHAGAT. 

   This time news papers have already come out with the evidences that 
   the ISLAMIC MAFIA of Bombay is behind the riots in Bombay. 

   Reuters reports have said that, the riots in Culcutta were engineered by 
   Muslim action groups waiting to create trouble. Police sources on   
   field!!

   The Organised attacks on Hindus by Muslim goons in NUH and other places.

   What else sir. By the way, have you read this news item, which says
   that many Muslim rioters were uncontrollable even with LAthi cxharges or
   teargassing. Most of the muslims were killed while the police were trying
   to control Rioting and arsoning Muslim mobs. THESE ARE FACTS. 

   MUSLIMS KILLED WERE NOT INNOCENT VICTIMS. THEY WERE VICTIMS OF THEIR 
   OWN (mis) DEEDS.

   [this any way doesnot mean that I condone any of the attrocities committed 
    by goons in the name of Hindus. ]  

   But if I remember facts well, the BJP was always for a peaceful 
   negotiation.  The VHP had been spearheading the movement since 
   1985. Did others find it that difficult to get the court orders, 
   court cases which were never intended to to solve the problem!!

   Anyway, the BJP and VHP volunteers have always, repeat ALWAYS been 
   peaceful in their demonstrations. Need I say about the members and groups
   which are representing the Rowdy elements and anti-Nationals?
  
>     Those who support this senseless act are  'gas-chamber
>     gurus' or bharatiya hitlerism parymen whether they wear saffron robes
>     or military uniform. 

   How about those supporting the mind less killings of innocent Sinhalese?
   Gas chambers themselves I guess??

   I donot support the killing of innocent, any where. BUT when it comes to 
   controlling rioting mobs, let the law take its due course. 

   Any ass, who suppports the protection of rioting mob and condoning it in 
   the name of minority protectionism is a treacherous creature.

>     Such treachery in the name of patriotism! ( I am afraid the 
>     truly inspirational phrases like 'jai hind', 'vandhe maadharam'
>     will lose their vitality by these pseudo-patriots ! ) 

   Any way, the likes of you have done enough to disgrace these slogans 
   and humiliating the nationalist sentiments by rejecting these inside and
   outside parliament - to appease some TREACHEROUS minority groups.

>    It is truly a shame that you and a few others like Virendra Verma, 
>    the Purple Bleeder, Indu, Deepak, Kuram Narayana and a 
>    more sober-sounding person from princeton,  Raj Bhatnagar, .. 
>    should write in support of this absolutely barbarious act.

   It is disgusting that this fellow has double standards when it comes 
   to acts and rights of Hindus in their nation.

>    What is bothersome is that in the name of religious fundementalism
>    a section of Indian Citizens are subjugated to a second class
>    citizenship ( vast numbers of Muslims were very productive 
>    people who suffered enormously under the oppressive Caste system
>    of 'Hindu' Hitler Manu and they found a way out by moving to
>    another religion and now this.. Hmmm..). It is utter nonsense to say
>    that Muslims in India are any different from you or me.

   Finally you have come back in true colours. The rest is not worth 
   commenting. 

   Hope this fellow learns that the Indian muslims were the Hindus who were
   converted by coercion-cheat-deciet and other standard Medieval period
   Islamic crusade techniques. Rather than the trash he trying to throw
   on the net.

>    If Mahatma Gandhi can be killed by hindu fundementalism more 
>    can be expected than this recent Ayodhya incident. Hitler's 
>    racist ideas enjoyed large ( not 'great' ) support and many
>    outstanding 'scientists' actively supported. Ernst Haeckel
>     ( the father of embryology and a great contributor to science
>       systematically used science for advancing the barbaric 
>       racist theories..)
>    With the accumulation of tremendous knowledge ( genetic engineering,
>    nuclear power,..) it is dangerous to let bharatiya hitlerism..

  For a creature which supports mindless killings and doesnot have grasp
  of Indian and Hindu ethos even after being born and brought up in India,
  what analogy and understanding of this Rama Janma Bhoomi movement can 
  be expected?

>    All right minded people should denounce this religeous
>    fundementalism. ( anyone who truly _worships_ Sri Ram will never
>    support Ayodhya incident. )  

   By the way, the ones who truly worship Ram are behind the TEMPLE very solid
   including the majority of Indian community.  The ones who do not believe in 
   the Indian culture and its civilisation are the ones who are carrying on 
   a losing battle. 

   finally, happy research prof. May be better luck next time :-)

>>    -- Girish.
>     - Selva


-Indu.
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