HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
Newsgroups: misc.rural
Subject: Re: advice sought on bathroom cleaners
From: Stafford@Vax2.Winona.MSUS.EDU (John Stafford)
Date: 9 Jan 93 16:02:41 -0600
Followup-To: misc.rural
 <1993Jan8.141502.27982@ncsu.edu> <1993Jan08.162828.21929@news.mentorg.com>
Distribution: usa
Organization: MSUS

In article <1993Jan08.162828.21929@news.mentorg.com>, brucej@sunbeamcom
(Bruce Johnson) wrote:
> 
> If you can't swing the high dollar iron removal systems the
> salesman try to sell you, stop by Sears.  

As an aside, a coorelation between high levels of iron and
cancer of the esophagus in men has been found.  This was
reported last year in a journal.  If it's really important
then perhaps I can find the citation.
From: pkrause@triton.unm.edu (Paul Krause CIRT)
Newsgroups: misc.rural
Subject: Sheep Rations (2nd try)
Date: 11 Jan 1993 16:44:38 GMT
Organization: University of New Mexico, Albuquerque
Distribution: world
NNTP-Posting-Host: triton.unm.edu

Somehow the text of my first post seemed to disappear.

I need some help with a feed ration for 3 hobby sheep (suffolks).  I find I
can buy corn for the same price (about 8 cents/lb) as good alfalfa and there
is less waste.  I know corn is not a complete food for people and I assume
that is true for sheep too.  I have been adding calf manna to try and balance
it better.  

Could any of you suggest how much of what mix would work well for pregnant
ewes and later on, growing lambs.

Thanks,
Paul
From: kenr@cruise.cc.rochester.edu (Kenneth C. Rich)
Newsgroups: misc.rural
Subject: Re: concerns with pilot lights
Date: 4 Jan 93 15:36:23 GMT
Distribution: na
Organization: Me (Rochester, NY)

In article <1992Dec30.152516.5069@dartvax.dartmouth.edu> Charles.K.Scott@dartmouth.edu (Charles K. Scott) writes:
>In article <1992Dec29.185522.17568@siemens.com>
>aad@siemens.com (Anthony Datri) writes:
>
>> Well, the landlord let me believe that the gas stove was reasonable, but I
>> see now that it has a pair of pilots burning.  I don't trust landlords.
>
>to occur.  As to the gas stove, you imply that having gas pilots is
>somehow improper.  It's worked for us for 17 years.  I'd rather have a

this is replying to the whole string of comments on pilot lights.
most of which are _not_ referenced above.  i have lived with 4-5
different gas cooking ranges with pilot lights over the years.  none
of them had any safety interlock or whatever you call it: if the
pilot goes out, gas leaks into the room, tho very slowly, you might
not even smell it for a day or so.  i have heard, tho i have no
substantiation, that pilots on typical gas stoves eat 25%-30% of the
total gas consumption of the stove.  hence, i have turned off the
pilot on all home kitchen stoves in my care.  on all these stoves,
the pilot had a little screw controlling the gas, so i just screwed
it all the way in.  the little screw was always in a block somewhere
along the tiny tube feeding the pilot.  i light my stove with a
wand-shaped piezoelectric butane lighter with no butane in it, the
spark suffices, though lighting the oven is often a bit explosive.  i
also have a gun shaped one i picked up from Harbor Freight Salvage
for backup.  flint and steel sparkers wear out frustratingly fast for
me, tho a clever dude could probably figure out how to recycle flints
from empty cig lighters.  matches work great too, and better than
sparking for ovens.  i also try to remember to politely turn the
pilot back on when the cook stove goes out of my care.


--
-ken rich           In the mean time, I'll 
                    stay in the median mode           kenr@cc.rochester.edu
Organization: Computing Technology Services, Michigan Technological Univ.
Date: Wednesday, 30 Dec 1992 15:14:03 EST
From: <JCLEWIN@MTUS5.BITNET>
Newsgroups: misc.rural
Subject: Truck or trailer? Was Re:dragging logs
 <1992Dec29.125500.21858@mlfarm.com>

In article <1992Dec29.125500.21858@mlfarm.com>, ron@mlfarm.com (Ronald Florence
says:
>   How many of what size logs can I expect to be able to haul with a
>   F150 in the truck bed?  How many in a heavy duty trailer could the
>   straight-6 F150 pull in a trailer instead of in the bed?
>
>Small pickups can carry and haul far more than their rated loads.  The
>question is how long you expect the transmission and tires to last and
>how slowly you're willing to drive.  I'd think trailering, with a
>cooler on the transmission, would be a lot better for the pickup than
>trying to haul logs in the bed.
>--
After loading up my small truck (A mazda) with more wood than I probably
should have, I would like the opinion on how other people haul wood.
So....
1) What size truck do you use?
2) How much wood do you put in it (i.e., how full or portions of a full cord -
of what kind of wood)?
3) How far do you haul, and over what sort of roads?
4) Do you load the wood in a trailer?  If so what size, how full, etc?
5) Do you use some other vehical (tractor, etc.)?   If so, details?

I can talley email replies and post.

JCLEWIN@MTUS5.BITNET

The Michigan Copper Country, plenty of snow for skiing, now if I can just get
out of the lab.....
Newsgroups: misc.rural
From: philip@mentorg.com (Philip Peake)
Subject: Re: concerns with well water and a septic tank
Date: Tue, 05 Jan 1993 23:45:49 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: Mentor Graphics
Keywords: 
Followup-To: 

In article <1992Dec30.155322.29352@siemens.com>, aad@siemens.com (Anthony Datri) writes:
|> 
|> >Even with pilot lights, they're burning far fewer fossil fuels than an electric
|> >stove does in the power plant that's supplying it.
|> 
|> Agreed -- what really concerns me, though, is that one of them will go out and
|> spit methane into my apartment.  My mother had a stove with "electronic"
|> ignition something like 25 years ago, and I'd never *seen* one with a pilot
|> until about a year and a half ago.

Every gas appliance with a pilot light that I have EVER seen has
a valve, which is held open by a bi-metal strip, which is heated
by the pilot light - when the pilot light goes out, the bi-metal
strip (quickly) bends, and the valve snaps shut, cutting off the gas.
That is why you have to press the little button, and keep it pressed
for a few seconds when you (re)light the pilot lights.
Pressing the button opens the valve, and you wait for the bi-metal
strip to warm up and hold the valve open.

Philip
Newsgroups: misc.rural
From: hubcap@hubcap.clemson.edu (System Janitor)
Subject: Re: concerns with well water and a septic tank
Organization: Clemson University
Distribution: usa
Date: Mon, 4 Jan 1993 15:11:06 GMT

>No pollution from nukes?  You ever hear of a place called "Chernobyl"?

The nuke plants in the US are somewhat different from Chernobyl.
None of ours have blown up. You'd be sure to hear about it in the paper.
I have a problem worrying about the potential problems we might face
with nukes when every day tons of pollution from burning fossil fuels gets
spewed into the air. Sloppily run nukes *might* cause a problem at some
time in the future. Every day the burning of fossile fuels *does cause*
great problems.

-Mike
Newsgroups: misc.rural
From: jwg2y@poe.acc.Virginia.EDU (Warner Granade)
Subject: Re: Hearths for woodstoves
Organization: University of Virginia
Distribution: usa
Date: Thu, 7 Jan 1993 20:36:24 GMT


Many years ago when I got my woodstove and then went to get my
renter's insurance, I found that the insurance company
has specifications including the hearth.  At that time,
my State Farm agent had a brochure about setting up 
woodstoves with clearances, etc. Your agent might be
a good source, provided you want to let him/her know 
you have a stove.
--
Warner Granade *****jwg2y@virginia.edu
804-924-7409

Newsgroups: misc.rural
From: aad@siemens.com (Anthony Datri)
Subject: Re: concerns with well water and a septic tank
Organization: Siemens Corporate Research, Princeton (Plainsboro), NJ
Distribution: usa
Date: Mon, 4 Jan 1993 19:24:49 GMT

>No pollution from nukes?  You ever hear of a place called "Chernobyl"?

It was incredibly stupid of them to be running a graphite pile.
-- 

======================================================================8--<
Newsgroups: misc.rural
From: hubcap@hubcap.clemson.edu (System Janitor)
Subject: Re: concerns with well water and a septic tank
Organization: Clemson University
Distribution: usa
Date: Tue, 5 Jan 1993 19:13:17 GMT

conley@kuhub.cc.ukans.edu writes:

>There has been at least one, and possibly two, that exploded years ago in
>a gov't research lab in Idaho. The feds won't talk about it.

You're right of course, and they were of the same design I was thinking
we ought to use. Oh well, so much for my idea.

-Mike
Newsgroups: misc.rural
From: ron@mlfarm.com (Ronald Florence)
Subject: Re: Profitability of Sheep
Organization: Maple Lawn Farm, Stonington, CT
	<QfGl_xg00000R0AEYG@andrew.cmu.edu>,<1993Jan7.154412.5068@mlfarm.com>
	<1993Jan8.171208.12125@news.weeg.uiowa.edu>
Date: Sat, 9 Jan 1993 13:09:23 GMT

Barbara Roy writes:

   How large is your "small" flock? 

Twenty brood ewes, mostly registered Cotswolds.  Two rams (one
registered black Cotswold, one registered white Cotswold).

  Is the wool of grass-fed sheep better than that of feed-lot sheep or
  just cleaner?

Our shearers, Kevin Ford and Carol Markarian, would know far more
about that than I do.  Healthy wool requires adequate protein and a
number of trace minerals and vitamins.  I suspect that the wool is not
sensitive to the source of those nutrients.  A sudden change of feed
can affect the wool.

  How much pasture do you use for your sheep and how often do you
  rotate pastures for them? 

We have a mostly-clover pasture of a little less than three acres, a
mostly-grass pasture of an acre, another clover-grass pasture of a
half-acre, and a three-acre hayfield.  We do not rotate as
aggressively as we should, but generally try to move the sheep between
the clover and grass pastures before they are eaten down.  After each
cutting of hay, the sheep go onto the hayfield for cleanup.  The small
pasture is for the rams, and for late finishing of lambs while the
rams are in with the ewes.

  What about shelters?

We have a small barn that we use for lambing.  In rainy weather and in
the weeks after they're shorn, we let the sheep into the barn.  In
snow, they're happier outside.  Our rams are locked out of the barn
from February on because their section of the barn becomes a lamb
creep.  As a result, the ram fleeces are sometimes the cleanest of all.

What works for us may not work elsewhere.  Our winters are relatively
mild, Cotswolds are very large sheep with very heavy fleeces, and we
don't use coats on the sheep because they tend to matt the wool.  I'd
guess we could raise more sheep on the same amount of pasture if we
used temporary electric fences and rotated aggressively between small
paddocks.  We're lazy, and we prefer looking at stone walls instead of
electric fences.  
--

				Ronald Florence
				ron@mlfarm.com
Newsgroups: misc.rural
From: ron@mlfarm.com (Ronald Florence)
Subject: Re: Profitability of Sheep
Organization: Maple Lawn Farm, Stonington, CT
Date: Thu, 7 Jan 1993 15:44:12 GMT

Phil Andrews writes:

   >I'm toying with the idea of raising sheep as an income source 

   I would say forget keeping them as anything except pet/hobby animals or
   for personal consumption. Prices paid for market lambs have been at a
   ten-year low. 

Yes and no.  Making a profit on a farm flock by selling market lambs
at auction and wool to the wool-pool would be a challenge, but there
are other options.  We sell breeding lambs, freezer lambs,
hand-spinning fleeces, and pelts.  All four markets take a good deal
or work.

Hand-spinners demand clean, well-sheared fleeces, which means good
feed to avoid breaks in the wool, keeping the sheep outside so they
stay clean, working with a shearer who understands the needs of
spinners, and some effort to find customers who appreciate good
fleeces.  Our own flock is primarily registered Cotswolds, a special
(read: `love or hate') wool.  By some formula I've never understood,
Wool Incentive Payments go up when you sell your wool for higher
prices. 

To sell breeding lambs, you have to spend some time on the show
circuit where people can see your sheep.  My son earns summer money
from fair premiums, and advertises our sheep at the same time.

We sell most of our freezer lambs to repeat customers.  We still have
to mail out order forms, follow up on orders, deliver the lambs to the
custom butcher, be there to supervise the butchering and wrapping to
our customers' specifications, and deliver the butchered lamb to the
customer or arrange pick-up.  Raising sheep on grass and clover is
more work than stuffing them with grain in a feedlot, but our
customers are willing to pay for the superior flavor and consistency
of grass-fed lamb.

Do we make money?  The flock pays for itself and most of the expenses
of the tractors and equipment.  The sheep keep the pastures mowed and
manured, and the walls clear of bittersweet and poison ivy.  The
barnyard manure is terrific for the garden.  We don't expect more from
a small flock.  
--

				Ronald Florence
				ron@mlfarm.com
From: clewis@ferret.ocunix.on.ca (Chris Lewis)
Newsgroups: misc.rural
Subject: Re: concerns with well water and a septic tank
Date: 6 Jan 93 03:45:46 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: Elegant Communications Inc., Ottawa, Canada

In article <1993Jan4.151106.26908@hubcap.clemson.edu> hubcap@hubcap.clemson.edu (System Janitor) writes:
>>No pollution from nukes?  You ever hear of a place called "Chernobyl"?

>The nuke plants in the US are somewhat different from Chernobyl.
>None of ours have blown up.

But they have leaked.

>You'd be sure to hear about it in the paper.

I heard about Three Mile Island.  Even Canada's CANDU power reactors,
which experts say are slightly safer w.r.t. catastrophic failure compared
to the American reactors leak upon occasion.

>I have a problem worrying about the potential problems we might face
>with nukes when every day tons of pollution from burning fossil fuels gets
>spewed into the air. Sloppily run nukes *might* cause a problem at some
>time in the future. Every day the burning of fossile fuels *does cause*
>great problems.

Agreed.  But when someone asserts that nukes don't pollute *at all*,
they're wrong.  The mining produces toxic slag, they leak in operation,
and putting away the waste is a problem.  Better than fossil fuels,
particularly coal, but not perfect by any means.
-- 
Chris Lewis; clewis@ferret.ocunix.on.ca; Phone: Canada 613 832-0541
Psroff 3.0 info: psroff-request@ferret.ocunix.on.ca
Ferret list: ferret-request@ferret.ocunix.on.ca
Newsgroups: misc.rural
From: johnc@yuma.ACNS.ColoState.EDU (John Cooley)
Subject: Re: Truck or trailer? Was Re:dragging logs
Summary: Suburban with trailer
Date: Tue, 05 Jan 1993 19:26:39 GMT
Distribution: na
Organization: Colorado State University, Fort Collins, CO  80523
Followup-To: misc.rural

In article <92365.151403JCLEWIN@MTUS5.BITNET> <JCLEWIN@MTUS5.BITNET> writes:
>After loading up my small truck (A mazda) with more wood than I probably
>should have, I would like the opinion on how other people haul wood.
>So....
>1) What size truck do you use?
Full-size Chevrolet Suburban 4x4, modified 350, heavy-duty aftermarket
radiator, transmission cooler, etc., 3.73 axles  (4.10 would be better)
>2) How much wood do you put in it (i.e., how full or portions of a full cord -
>of what kind of wood)?
The trailer is 8'x6'x3.5', for a total of 168 ft^3.  Cordwood measurements do
not take voids into account, so the trailer holds well over a FULL (not face)
cord when filled to the top.  Say 1.5 cords when piled up a little.  Weight
of trailer plus wood is maybe 6,000 lb.  The wood is peeled lodgepole pine -
no bark.  Pine is much lighter than hardwoods.
>3) How far do you haul, and over what sort of roads?
I haul either from the log home builder's yard (about 10 miles) or from a
construction site.  I have avoided going over 50 miles one way, so far.  The
roads are mostly paved or dirt county roads with grades as steep as 16%.  The
last three miles to my house is a private dirt road with steep switchbacks.
Low range is useful.  Chains may be required in the winter.
>4) Do you load the wood in a trailer?  If so what size, how full, etc?
See above.  It's a Suburban, so I have to use a trailer.
>5) Do you use some other vehical (tractor, etc.)?   If so, details?
No.

      John Cooley
  Somewhere in the foothills of the Rockies west of Fort Collins, Colorado
Newsgroups: misc.rural
From: broy@vaxa.weeg.uiowa.edu (Barbara Roy)
Subject: Profitability of Sheep
Reply-To: broy@vaxa.weeg.uiowa.edu
Organization: U. of Iowa - Weeg Computing Center
Date: Mon, 4 Jan 1993 15:16:15 GMT

I'm toying with the idea of raising sheep as an income source and have a
number of questions regarding the profitability of such a venture. I have
raised a few sheep over the years with success, but am considering going at
it on a much larger scale. In the past I have just raised a few lambs, never
bred my own ewes and lambed myself. I would imagine that to be profitable
on a larger scale I would need to do this.

Having raised just about every type of livestock imaginable, I'm not worried
about the lambing process and am familiar with the equipment and shelter
needs. However, I would like information on the possible return on my
investment that I could expect and the amount of work involved in raising
sheep. Do most people trade the wool for the shearing? What costs other than
original purchase price, feed, and vet are involved?

Can I raise 2 lambs on an acre that supports 1 horse? How long does it take
to get a lamb to market weight and does that figure change appreciably 
depending on whether they are being grained or just pastured?

All information from large-scale sheep producers is appreciated.

Barbara Roy
Newsgroups: misc.rural
From: rgass@yesac.ColumbiaSC.NCR.COM (Roy.Gass)
Subject: Re: advice sought on bathroom cleaners
Organization: NCR Corp., Columbia SC
Distribution: usa
Date: Thu, 07 Jan 93 20:51:43 GMT

In article <lkm518INNpl@news.bbn.com> docreq@BBN.COM (Robin Coffman Martin) writes:
>
>Our well water has a high iron content, and is leaving unsightly stains in the
>toilet.  I'd like to clean these using cleansers that will not harm our septic
>system.  Does anyone have recommendations for chemical-free, effective
>cleaners?
>
>You can email me directly (rcoffman@bbn.com) or reply here.
>
>Many thanks,
>
>Robin

i have similar problems with iron. however, i would like to 
resolve the problem before that point. i have briefly searched
for systems to remove the iron early in my water. the major
system houses (Culligan, Rainsoft, etc...) promote very
expensive solutions but, i cannot justify them. 

i read of a cartridge filtration system by Ametek (sp?) that
supposedly removed iron but, i cannot find a representative
locally for these products. it was noted to have a price
tag in the $100-200 range for initial setup.

roy.
From: jefftb@sr.hp.com (Jeff Brown)
Subject: Re: Hearths for woodstoves
Date: Tue, 5 Jan 1993 20:15:39 GMT
Organization: HP Sonoma County (SRSD/MWTD/MID)
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1.9 PL6]



: We're in the process of getting a woodstove, and have run into
: some confusion on the question of hearths. Does anyone out there
: know something about this subject? specifically, how thick does
: the stone or brick need to be, does there need to be anything 
: underneath it (heat shield, "wonderboard"), do you need to
: reinforce the floor if you put in a masonry hearth, are there
: any good books to consult on the subject,
: etc.
: 
: We`ve spoken to a mason, two woodstove stores, a chimney/woodstove
: installer, a stoneyard, the town building inspector, various friends,
: and read a few books, and everyone seems to say something different
: (e.g. you need 6" thickness of stone, you need 1" thick of stone, you
: do need a heat shield, you don't need a heat shield, and so on.
: 
: Any help appreciated! Please reply via e-mail to selvin@nynexst.com.
: Thanks.
: 
: --------------------------------------------------------------------------
: 
: 
:  To be legal around here you need to keep the clearanes to combustables
   to what the stove manufacture says. Combustables include sheet rock
   by the way. 
   If the stove is not listed. (from an old Sonoma county code pamplet)
   then a standard clearance is listed which I dont recall what it is. 
   They do say that these clearance can be reduced if the is an air gap 
   between the masonry and conbustables. I have a brick hearth and the 
   there is a 1" gap between the wall and the brick. Then the bottom course
   of brick has air gaps between the bricks (no mortor) and so does a course
   near the top. This allows convection air flow when things get warm to 
   keep the combustable wall cool. Make sure that the mason keeps this gap
   clear of mortor as the bricks go up. 

   My code book says that if the stove has a clearance listing you must 
   install it to that no matter what your hearth is. I think any new stove
   will have a clearance listing and if it is old the installation would
   be illegal due to the EPA laws. 

   I have seen a few of the air gap hearths around and seems like a good 
   idea anyway.

   Good luck
   Jeff Brown
From: mikeq@freddy.CNA.TEK.COM (Mike Quigley)
Newsgroups: misc.rural
Subject: Re: concerns with well water and a septic tank
Date: 5 Jan 93 18:26:33 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: Tektronix, Inc., Redmond,  OR.

In article <1993Jan5.113725.46118@kuhub.cc.ukans.edu> conley@kuhub.cc.ukans.edu writes:
>In article <1993Jan4.151106.26908@hubcap.clemson.edu>, hubcap@hubcap.clemson.edu (System Janitor) writes:
>>>No pollution from nukes?  You ever hear of a place called "Chernobyl"?
>> 
>> The nuke plants in the US are somewhat different from Chernobyl.
>> None of ours have blown up. You'd be sure to hear about it in the paper.
>
>There has been at least one, and possibly two, that exploded years ago in
>a gov't research lab in Idaho. The feds won't talk about it.

It was at the Naval reactor test facility in Arco. 100% mortality. It
happened on a Sunday when there was minimum staff. The area is still
off limits and very hush-hush. Cancer rates have since increased in
surrounding communities. I got this from an engineer who worked there
when it happened. He was off for the weekend. He quit the next week.

You can always trust your government.

Mike
From: pme@otter.hpl.hp.com (Pete Earlam)
Date: Thu, 7 Jan 1993 10:53:24 GMT
Subject: Re: IMPORTANT Re: smokey basement
Organization: Hewlett-Packard Laboratories, Bristol, UK.
Newsgroups: misc.rural

Sort of on this subject. I bought some stuff which is supposed to clean the
flue. It is a powder which you sprinkle onto the fire when it it burning nice 
and red and it is supposed to remove soot tar etc. from the flue. It burns 
with a sort of lilac flame (potassium ?) . You are supposed to use a dessert
spoonful per week to keep the chimney clean. This supposedly stops the fire
being so smoky too.

I have some doubts about this but I thought I'd try it as it was quite cheap.

Does anyone know :

a) What is this stuff
b) does it really work
c) if so , how ?
From: dfw@po.CWRU.Edu (David F. Wright)
Newsgroups: misc.wanted
Subject: Fellow Bikers Help ME!!!!!
Date: 6 Jan 1993 20:33:32 GMT
Organization: Case Western Reserve University, Cleveland, OH (USA)
Reply-To: dfw@po.CWRU.Edu (David F. Wright)
NNTP-Posting-Host: thor.ins.cwru.edu


    If any of you guys know where I can find inexpensive bike supplies
give me a holler.... Dennis Kirk is way to HIGH!
-- 
        David Wright                   Internet:dfw@po.cwru.ed
        Technician I- Tech. Services   Phone (216) 368-3779
        I.R.I.S Dept.
        Case Western Reserve University