HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: costin@cs.mcgill.ca (Costin RIZAN)
Subject: Re: CBM Announcements (And PC Clone Users)
Organization: SOCS, McGill University, Montreal, Canada
Date: Sat, 11 Apr 1992 05:28:20 GMT

In article <jayson.01m4@tbag.UUCP> jayson@tbag.UUCP (Jayson Phillips) writes:
> 
>>  Hmmm.  
>>
>>  People do not need more than 640K of RAM (for a PC)
>>  People do not need more than 10MB of hard disk space (for a PC)
>>  People do not need more than 1 MIPS for their personal use (for a PC).
>>
>>  Even with the weaker qualifying clause, these statements look ridiculous.
> 
>Actually  these  statements  look just about right for most MSDOS users.  I
>found  at  IBM  (NY)  that most people didn't know how big their hard drive
>was,  how much memory they had, or even what processor was in the computer.
>There  were quite a few that could remember these things after I told them.
>But  most  didn't  even  care.  And I'm talking about engineers, though not

	Ok, there's 80 millions + PC users out there. A big majority
use their computer only minimaly and only because their work requires
it. They couldn't care less what size their HD is because that would be
like knowing how the transmision on their car works. There are other
hobbies out there you know! Computers aren't everything.


>computer  eng.   Anyway, the vast majority of MSDOS users use just a single
>program  day after day.  This is, of course, usually a word processor.  And
>it  runs  just fine in 640K on a 286 (<1MIP) and, say, how big is that hard
>drive???   An  advanced  MSDOS  user  uses  two  programs (one at a time of
>course)  and  the  second one is Lotus 123.  This will also run fine in the
>mediocre 640K 286 system.  Unless you're running Windows.  Then you have to
>"quit"  windows  to  run  Lotus.   But  most MSDOS users don't like Windows
>anyway.   "What?  You mean now I gotta learn this shit to do the same thing
>I've been doing?  No thanks."

If most MS-DOS users can run their software on mediocre 286 computers how
do you explain the 600+ page Computer Shopper published every month?
If someone is ready to pay 10,000$+ for a full page add, I would
think that someone must be buying those 386 & 486 systems advertized.
From: lindblad@cc.helsinki.fi
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
Subject: Re: 040 and 486_ (bunch O' Kaka anyway)
Date: 16 Apr 92 17:54:43 GMT
Organization: University of Helsinki

In article <1992Apr15.212521.26256@ctr.columbia.edu>, jerry@connection.prospect.com (Jerry Shekhel) writes:
> mykes@amiga0.SF-Bay.ORG (Mike Schwartz) writes:
>>
>>If you use EXACTLY the same compiler, you are going to get code for one of
>>the two cpus.  Code generators have to be different (thus making the compilers
> 
> I ask you again, what's wrong with using GNU C?  It was designed *not* to be
> tied to any particular architecture.  While the code it produces may not be
> the best code possible on each machine, I would think that it produces code
> of similar quality on all machines.

If CPU A needs more careful optimization if we want get get all it can give us
and on the other hand CPU B only needs very little or no optimization I
wouldn't say the quality of code is equal on both CPUs if generated on very
similar code generators (GNU C in this case).

>>Even GNU will have different code generators for the two cpus.
> 
> Not really.  GNU C uses the basically the same code generator for all CPUs.
> It gets information about the CPU's programming model (registers, addressing
> modes, instructions) from a single MD (machine description) file.

Look to the previous paragraph of mine.

--
Jarkko Lindblad
lindblad@cc.helsinki.fi
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
From: yarnall@math.scarolina.edu (Kenny Yarnall)
Subject: Re: 040 and 486
Keywords: 68040,80486,486,040,benchmarks
Organization: USC  Department of Computer Science
Date: 11 Apr 92 23:19:12 GMT

nap42487@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (Nishith A. Patel) writes:

+The following are a series of benchmarks performed on a 25 MHz 040 with
+128K external cache and a 25 MHz 486 with 128K external cache.

+Benchmark	040 128K cache		486 128K cache

+Integer:
+gcc		13.8			13.8
+espresso	13.4			12.2
+li		15.5			16.8
+eqntott	9.8			11.0

+FP:
+spice2g6	13.1			8.8
+doduc		8.1			5.8
+nasa7		12.1			5.8
+matrix 300	11.5			9.5
+fpppp		13.4			7.0
+tomcatv	9.1			4.3

+These tests show what I have said before, that the 486 is marginally faster
+than the 040 at the same speed on integer, and that the 040 a little more
+than 1.5 times the speed of the 486 on FP, which means that the 50 MHz 486
+will be faster. 040's without caches, common on the Amiga, will do a little
+worse than the results shown here.

What you don't tell us is anything about the computers that these
benchmarks are run on, or even what these benchmarks measure.  

I have heard from some friends who work for a certain large computer maker
here in town, who run Unix on lots of boxes, and they have told me that the
'040 box (25 Mhz) performed much better than the '486 boxes that they had.
They were (as I recall, I can't really swear to this unless I check) using
the HP '040 boxes, which are by all account nice implementations.  They
reportedly ran X as a network server (servicing several clients) with
better responce than a '486 box (make unknown) running a single local X
client.

Make of it what you will.  Just don't invest your entire ego on a computer
chip -- it's a really silly thing to do.
From: ajaffe@amiganet.chi.il.us (Adi Jaffe)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
Subject: Re: Wild rumor, potential for massive sea change in Amiga world...
Date: 15 Apr 92 22:22:02 GMT
Organization: Amiga Network Information Systems

In article <1992Apr14.173411.10287@usenet.ins.cwru.edu>,
aa399@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Len Stys) writes:
>
>
>
>Can you say CBM losing many of their users in the U.S. due to Nintendo
>(a Japanese company) owning the company that produces the computer they own?
>
>I wonder how many users would stick with Commodore once Nintendo bought
>them out ESPECIALLY when there are a growing amount of people out there that
>dislikes the way Nintendo does things.
>
>The only thing that this would accomplish is many of those users eventually
>selling their Amiga and purchasing a new Falcon or whatever it will be.
>
>By Winter, Atari will be offering everything that the Amiga has anyways.
>
>
>:en
>-- 
> 



I wouldnt go so far as to suggest that.... On the corporate level, Atari is making its final "victory lap" around the toilet bowl before it spins into oblivion. Commodore still offers the most "bang for the buck".. And besides, even so far as the user is concerned, a dkeced out IBM can outperform an average Amiga, cheaper than a decked-out Amiga can outperform a decent IBM.


Id like it if someone took over Commdore. Commodore is like Congress.. throw the morons out, I say. Weither its Hewlett Packard, Sun Microsystems, Nintendo or Playskool, ANYONE. 

But if Nintendo buys it out and turns the Amiga into a game machine, screw that.. Ill sell quick and get a high-end 386 and run Windows 3.1...Nintendo would be wise to sight the strengths of the machine, and push it to the hilt.
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
From: philip@utstat.uucp (Philip McDunnough)
Subject: Re: What to do about CBM
Organization: University of Toronto, Dept. of Statistics
Date: Wed, 8 Apr 1992 06:56:29 GMT

In article <mykes.2407@amiga0.SF-Bay.ORG> mykes@amiga0.SF-Bay.ORG (Mike Schwartz) writes:
>Since I posted my article about how CBM is a game company, many people
>have written to me to ask what we can do about it.  Seems everyone, like
>me, is interested in seeing CBM keep up with the rest of the computer
>systems in its class.  Here's what I suggest is THE best policy.
>
>
>BOYCOTT any new CBM computer systems (at the high end) until they come
>to their senses.  The problem does NOT lie with the engineers at CBM -
>they are all fine.  The problem lies with the marketing, as MB has always
>reminded us.

You'd only be hurting yourselves. No company is perfect. Basically people
need usable equipment at a reasonable price. For that reason you don't come
out with an 040 Amiga until the 040 comes down in price. Apple does the
same thing.

In any case, outside the US Commodore is moving along steadily towards a
very nice product line. The rest of the industry may be zooming along but
the people aren't. What Commodore should do is to firm up the OS, get an
inexpensive 8 bit graphics computer out there, and just keep moving slowly
whle things sort themselves out. Just consider Kevin's CD-I machine. Very
nice, still waiting for MPEG but now MPEG is not good enough. There will
have to be an MPEG-II ! Multimedia is a slippery term. Commodore is quite
wise to keep a foot in the Intel world and not rush too quickly into
high end multimedia based product lines. Moreover they should stay away from
Unix and concentrate on connectivity approaches.

All that being said, I want a HD for my CDTV!

[ ]

Philip
philip@utstat.toronto.edu
From: dlove@cbnewsf.cb.att.com (Dave Love)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
Subject: Re: .info Magazine has "suspended operations"
Date: 15 Apr 92 16:37:57 GMT
Distribution: na
Organization: AT&T

In article <1992Apr14.184201.2770@constellation.ecn.uoknor.edu> robert@alliant.backbone.uoknor.edu (Robert Lindsay) writes:
>
>Dammit Mark don't you EVER GET TIRED OF WHINING? 
>[ + a paragraph or so of MB bashing (it's like Japan-bashing, only easier ;) ]

Feel better now?  You really need to get a newreader that supports kill
files.  I must have five entries in mine to kill all the various MB 
postings. 

Now if I could only find a way to to kill *responses* to messages from people 
in my kill files...

>robert lindsay
>robert@alliant.uoknor.edu

- Cheers,

  Dave Love
  dlove@cbnewsf.att.com
From: Lee_Robert_Willis@cup.portal.com
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
Subject: Re: AppleEvents, how to they work?
Date: 8 Apr 92 22:51:49 GMT
  <jbickers.05mj@templar.actrix.gen.nz>  
  <kdarling.702469592@garfield.catt.ncsu.edu> <56935@cup.portal.com>
  <1992Apr8.141906.946@ux1.cso.uiuc.edu>
Organization: The Portal System (TM)

Mathew Zeier writes:

>Lee_Robert_Willis@cup.portal.com writes:
>
>>From the Amiga User Interface Style Guide:
>
>>   "Each ARexx port must have a unique name and must be in
>>   upper-case.  In AREexx, a port name is derived from:
>
>>      <basename>.<slot #>
>>   ...
>
>Unless the application is good enough to recognize AREXX and adjust itself
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>accordingly.

No, you're confused.  The above quote *means* the application is itself
supposed to create port names, not the user Script.  (i.e. ProWrite
is doing exactly what the style guide says it should.)

--
Lee      Lee_Robert_Willis@cup.portal.com
From: dtiberio@csws6.ic.sunysb.edu (David Tiberio)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
Subject: Re: *** ULTIMATE BASHING for PeeCee Users
Date: 7 Apr 92 23:02:12 GMT
Organization: State University of New York at Stony Brook

In article <mykes.2401@amiga0.SF-Bay.ORG> mykes@amiga0.SF-Bay.ORG (Mike Schwartz) writes:
>In article <1992Apr7.000614.24219@ra.msstate.edu> skip@tacky.cs.olemiss.edu (Skip 'AdaX' Sauls) writes:
>>A few years ago Apple wanted people to call SCSI "sexy" instead of "scuzzy".
>>I have even heard new computer users talk about their S-C-S-I drives.
>>
>>We should all start talking about rigby, deema, and so on instead of RGB, DMA,
>>and other boring names.  :-)
>>
>
>Rumor has it that BLAZEMONGER, INC. is working on SLEAZY disk drive technology.
>Something to do with square disks in a round disk drive...
>
>
	How about ovular disks for vertically standing
drives?


-- 
      //   David Tiberio  SUNY Stony Brook 2-3662  AMIGA  DDD-MEN   
     //  Not the llama! Come here Earl; I want to tell you something...
   \X/		Liverpool, New York	    Yes, I like 3D.
From: rhealey@kas.helios.mn.org (Rob Healey)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
Subject: Re: Mac OS just sucks -- "ease of use" = "lack of freedom" ?
Date: 3 Apr 92 04:58:18 GMT
Organization: Rob's home system, Hopkins, MN

In article <1992Mar30.094525.15388@srd.bt.co.uk>, jhawes@everest.srd.bt.co.uk (Jason Hawes) writes:
|> But having said that . . . x million Mac users can't be wrong . . . . .
|> they just need a different OS . . .
|> 
	Sure they can be wrong, just like millions of PC users. It's
	called the "lemming"/"pi'd piper" effect. As far as your mum
	being able to use a Mac as opposed to a command line interface.

	I worked in student labs for 6 years, until a person was SHOWN
	how to copy files on either machine they'd spin their wheels.

	There is nothing inherently obvious about anything in the Mac
	interface or Windows for computer illiterates. People have to be
	shown at least once how to do something. This "inherently obvious"
	claim is a pile of it no matter who is making the claim.

		-Rob
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
From: gerald@seas.gwu.edu (Gerald G. Washington)
Subject: Re: 040 and 486_
Organization: George Washington University
Date: Wed, 15 Apr 1992 21:47:26 GMT

jerry@connection.prospect.com (Jerry Shekhel) writes:
>mykes@amiga0.SF-Bay.ORG (Mike Schwartz) writes:
>>Copyback mode is where some Amiga fan posts the truth and Jerry Shnekel
>							   ^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>>selectively copies-back the article as he posts a bunch of hooey.
>>
>
>Nah, Copyback Mode is the course that Mike Schwartz has just enrolled in
>so that he can learn how to properly copy people's names into his cheap
>shot articles on c.s.a.a. when he can't think of any other way to save
>whatever bogus argument he had in the first place.

No, no.  Copyback mode is when you copy someone else's idea for a humorous
post.  My machine obviously has this feature.  Wait, I think this is the
copycat mode.  Copyback mode must be when you copy someone else's post and
refute it with arguments you can back up.  This mode is automatically dis-
abled in the advocacy group.

-- Gerald
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
From: davidm@sfsuvax1.sfsu.edu (David Morgenstern)
Subject: Re: Mac OS just sucks -- "ease of use" = "lack of freedom" ?
Organization: San Francisco State University
Date: Thu, 16 Apr 1992 18:53:34 GMT

I've deleted a long excerpt from MacWeek about the recent screwups
about the latest edition of the System 7 TuneUp, and the Apple
admission that 40% of Mac users couldn't properly update their
systems without using the Installer program. 

This is perhaps a golden example of the differences between Amiga
users and developers and the Macintosh set. The entire concept of
the Mac as a kitchen appliance (the word toaster was used, but I
don't want to create ANY confusion with the "T" video product) has
followed the different flavors of the machine. There was never a
thought that the software and hardware developer would have it easy
-- easy for the user has meant hard for the programmer. 

I think it's interesting to note that Apple is doing user testing
on all features, including ones that we would just expect "everyone
should get this.." Actually, the release of the latest Tuner is a
good example of Mac philosophy -- it gives the user different ways
of doing the same thing. The Installer script is supplied for one
set of users (40%) and the rest can still drop the files on the
System folder, which will also do the job. 

Amiga users (especially the ones here on the Net) have always been
more hardware headed than Mac users. I happened to be looking at
the first issue of MacUser last night (I'm doing a trivia contest)
and saw an announcement for the Amiga there -- this was the October
1985 issue. It felt that the Amiga would appeal to mid-sized
business users...

daviD
-- 
*****     David Morgenstern (a.k.a. BMUG CheerLeader)     *****
*     CIS: 72030,1607   AOL: daviD eM   FAX: 510-849-9026     *
From: root@rkamiga.UUCP (Rick Kelly)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
Subject: Re:  Atari Falcon (wasn't: Amiga Falcon)
Distribution: world
Date: 8 Apr 92 21:45:41 EST
Organization: Rick's Amiga

In article <ajaffe.21sl@amiganet.chi.il.us> ajaffe@amiganet.chi.il.us (Adi Jaffe) writes:
>In article <KENTD.92Apr1111249@zappa.FtCollins.NCR.com>,
>kentd@FtCollins.NCR.com (Kent Dalton) writes:
>>>>>>> On 27 Mar 92 22:18:23 GMT, jerry@cs.mcgill.ca (Gerald (Jerry) KUCH) said:
>>
>>
>>Gerald> In article <1992Mar27.140353.25236@wam.umd.edu> cmedley@wam.umd.edu (EN
>>iGMA Software) writes:
>>>In article <mykes.1675@amiga0.SF-Bay.ORG> mykes@amiga0.SF-Bay.ORG (Mike Schwar
>>tz) writes:
>>>the SNES are superior to a stock A500 hands down, mainly because of the
>>>superior 3D-scaling and rotation capabilities.  On top of that, the 8 bit
>>>video simply beats the 32 or 64 color displays on the A500.
>>>
>>>(not to say the A500 isn't good for games, but just that I think that a
>>>SNES is just a better game machine... now if only it had a keyboard)
>>
>>Gerald> Yeah, if it had a keyboard you might be able to get some good
>>Gerald> laughs out of that, what is it, a 65816?  Whooopeee....Long live
>>Gerald> the 6502.  NOT!
>>
>>Every review I've read of the SNES has panned it for that very reason.
>>They can all be summarized as: "The built in hardware scaling graphics
>>capabilities of the SNES are extremely cool, but in practice, the system
>>is inferior to the Genesis because of the exceedingly lame CPU (which is
>>both weaker than the 68K and running at *half* the speed of Genesis's
>>68K)." 
>>
>
>
>Aaaaah, normally id say you Ft. Collins people are just a bunch of atomic
>clockheads.... But, even I agree.. Nintendo's SNES sucks plainly because its
>processor and resolution.. I read a while back in some greasy gamer mag stat
>comparrisons between the Genesis' 320 X 200 display and the SNES weird
>resolution like 192X200 ... The resolution of a basic NES was like 4 or 5
>pixels lower than an SNES.. I suppose just enough so they could say "The SNES
>has a higher resolution than the old NES" ...heheheh..
>
>Pretty lame..
>
>
>The 65816? Boy--im erect. Isnt that the same one as in the Apple IIGS? And
>cantcha see how successful THAT platform is for software development!
>
>WOW..

It certainly doesn't help that Apple has done their best to woo developers
away from the Apple II family.  

But the Apple IIe and GS are still the most prominent computers in
K-12 education.

If Apple was openly marketing the GS, then there would probably be a lot
more games for it.  From a home computer standpoint, it is not a bad
machine.  It just needs a higher clock rate.

In terms of hardware expansion the Apple IIe and GS are still more flexible
than the Mac.

--
Rick Kelly		Rick's Amiga		Framingham, Mass.

		think!unixland!rmkhome!rkamiga!root
From: root@rkamiga.UUCP (Rick Kelly)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
Subject: Re: C= policy (Re: Apple problems "Home computer")
Distribution: world
Date: 8 Apr 92 18:39:14 EST
Organization: Rick's Amiga

In article <1992Apr6.103357.14282@marlin.jcu.edu.au> cpca@marlin.jcu.edu.au (Colin Adams) writes:
>In article <3416@tronsbox.UUCP> tron1@tronsbox.UUCP (Kenneth Jamieson) writes:
>>In article <30036@cbmvax.commodore.com> andy@cbmvax.commodore.com (Andy Finkel) writes:
>>>Of course, on the down side, only the people with no idea
>>>what's going on post their predictions of what's going to happen next :-)

>>	You know, I have been thinking about this a lot lately (what's
>>that smoke ?) and have decided that C='s non announce policy is
>>hurting more than it is helping.

>I agree.  Microsoft, IBM and Apple all use vapourware announcements
>to great effect.  Windows NT, PowerPC, Taligent, the list goes
>on.  The Windows NT vapourware is enough to keep a lot of people
>from going to OS/2 2.0.  Maybe some Amiga vapourware would keep
>people from moving to clones.  The performance gap seems to keep
>getting bigger, especially in the last few weeks here with the
>arrival of 50 MHz 486 clones priced about the same as the Amiga 3000.

If I was an MSDOS user, I would jump for OS/2 2.0.  For ~$60 it is a
much better value than Windows NT, which has a rumoured price of $500.
I might also note that NT has only been shown on RISC machines so far.

--
Rick Kelly		Rick's Amiga		Framingham, Mass.

		think!unixland!rmkhome!rkamiga!root
From: kdarling@garfield.catt.ncsu.edu (Kevin Darling)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
Subject: Beer (was Re: New Amigas Announced!!!!)
Date: 11 Apr 92 19:59:21 GMT
Article-I.D.: garfield.kdarling.703022361
Organization: North Carolina State University

Gentlemen... please at least change the subject heading if you're going
to discuss just beer all weekend long.   Especially when that current
"New Amigas" header is bound to draw unsuspecting readers in :-)

Thanks!  And btw, I'm one of those who believe that beer is only rented
by the drinker :-)   Give me a straight shot of Chivas Regal any day!
(I picked up the habit in the Army in Korea... $4 a bottle... cheap!)

best - kevin <kdarling@catt.ncsu.edu>
From: andy@cbmvax.commodore.com (Andy Finkel)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
Subject: Re: *** ULTIMATE BASHING for PeeCee Users
Date: 7 Apr 92 23:28:15 GMT
Reply-To: andy@cbmvax.commodore.com (Andy Finkel)
Organization: Flying Cat Software

In article <1992Apr7.183743.29135@ctr.columbia.edu> jerry@connection.prospect.com (Jerry Shekhel) writes:
>gblock@csd4.csd.uwm.edu (Gregory R Block) writes:
>>
>>[OS/2 vs. A-DOS efficiency]
>>
>>I think it's a fair comparison...  Somewhat.  Though it's not.  I
>>imagine VM and MP could be done in a relatively small amount of code,
>>if there weren't certain things involved--mainly message passing.  And
>>I wouldn't give up the way the Amiga message-passes for MP.
>>
>
>OS/2 has message-passing *and* MP (message passing is part of the
>Presentation Manager's windowing API).  What is the difference between
>the Amiga's and OS/2's message-passing mechanisms?  Just curious...

Amiga EXEC messages can be passed by reference;  no need to copy
the message, just pass a pointer to it.


>Well, like I said, OS/2 contains more functionality in every OS component
>than does AmigaDOS (kernel, graphics, GUI, etc).  Plus, it has kernel support
>for two API's (16- and 32-bit), DOS emulation, and Windows support.  I fully
>realize that this stuff is "baggage", but in the PC world, where compatibility
>is everything, it's necessary baggage, and it does add to the memory
>requirements.

Frankly, I think you're going a bit overboard in your
OS/2 == GOOD point of view when you start thinking that stuff
like MS-DOS emulation and a _second_ API that supports Windows
is a good thing from the OS point of view.    That kind of stuff
gets in the way of program development for an OS.  Far better if it
were a seperate module, independent of the OS.  Go back and reread
the original OS/2 designers book.  Then compare it with the OS/2 of today.
(Personally, I like the OS/2 described in the book a lot better)

Lots of extra features don't always equate with good OS.  Often
they equate with cruft.

>+-------------------+-----------------------+--------------------------------+
>| Jerry J. Shekhel  | Molecular Simulations | Time just fades the pages      |
-- 
andy finkel		{uunet|rutgers|amiga}!cbmvax!andy

"A train station is a place where trains stop.  Now I understand
 the workstation concept."

Any expressed opinions are mine; but feel free to share.
I disclaim all responsibilities, all shapes, all sizes, all colors.
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy