From: mcclaine@milton.u.washington.edu (Robert Casey)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.movies,rec.arts.movies
Subject: Re: Alien 3
Date: 22 Jul 92 20:33:23 GMT
Article-I.D.: u.1992Jul22.203323.29947
Organization: University of Washington, Seattle


   My responses will have a ** before it...


In article <63348@hydra.gatech.EDU>, ccoprdj@prism.gatech.EDU (Jorge Diaz) writes:
> 
> In article <1992Jul13.193919.15520@tandem.com> Montague_Kevin @Tandem.com (Kevvy Kev) writes:
> >In article <63161@hydra.gatech.EDU>, ccoprdj@prism.gatech.EDU (Jorge Diaz) writes:
> 
> Not sure what point I was trying to make?  In the original, there was a
> scene that was cut out that showed Ripley finding Dallas and what was
> left of Brett.  He had been turned into a pod.  The explains where the
> pods come from.

What I mean is: So what?  Suppose they also had a scene where Ripley dies at
the end, and that's cut as well?  There may be different reasons for cutting
the two scenes, but the point is clear: you must deal with the movie as it
is presented in the theatre.  EVERY movie is cut, for different reasons.  

> Also, I said that we knew almost everything about the lifecycle of the
> Alien after the first movie.  You said this isn't so.  Let's see what
> we know:
> 
> Pod (where's it come from?  We don't know

???


	**  True.  We don't really know where the pod comes from in
	terms of this first movie at this stage.  However, it is certain
	that there is only one thing on the Nostromo that could have 
	produced such a thing.  (the Alien).  Also, although I have not
	been privy to seeing the uncut version of Alien, I did read the
	novel and it is my understanding that Brett and Dallas were
	taken to the lower level of the ship, Deck C, and cocooned up
	so that the facehugger could do its work.  It is not accepted
	Alien science that aliens turn humans into egg pods.

> Pod releases facehugger.

When a host is near, after a certain period of time, when aggravated, upon
some EM stimulus. . .??

	**  Aliens supposedly react to infrared and motion stimuli.

> Facehugger implants chestburster.

Once, then dies?  Twice?  Immediately?  Dies if no other host is around?
Some of these are your ideas from previous posts I've read, by the way. . .
(smiley omitted)

	**  A chestburster will hibernate in the egg pod until it is
	stimulated to come out.  It is capable of implanting in a single
	victim at which point it leaves and dies.

> Chestburster grows into Alien.

How?  How long to gestate inside host?  How does it get so big so quickly?
What does it eat, what happens if no food's around?

	**  It is quite evident that the alien life forms have a very 
	high metabolism, thus, the gestation period is only a matter of
	a couple of days in general.  The alien that emerges grows very 
	rapidly, molting and shedding its skin freqently to accomodate the
	fast growth.  Aliens have a diet consisting of about 1/2 organic 
	matter and 1/2 inorganic matter.  If there is absolutely no food
	around (unlikely, especially in a star ship), then the alien can
	either hibernate or it may die in time.

> Alien takes people alive and does what with them????
> 
> As far as the life cycle goes, we know almost everything.  Had that extra
> scene I described been included, we would have known the *entire* life
> cycle of the Alien.

Hardly. We'd have known One cycle. & Each of your assertions gives rise to a
host of questions; the other items on your list are already questions.

	**  An alien can either take someone alive and cocoon them for
	the facehuggers or they can kill them and eat them, much like
	you saw in Alien 3.  If that supposed additional scene had been
	left in the movie, it probably *would* have made things more 
	clear about the life cycle of the alien, but it could have left 
	a lot of people confused as well.

> >> The Queen?  I hated that.

I've heard others say this too. . .or maybe I'm just remembering another of
your previous posts.  I don't know.  I think that scene in the egg chamber
when we first saw the Queen is one of the great moments in cinema.

[Aliens turning their victims into pods]

	**  Aliens do not turn their victims into pods.  Pods are laid
	by the Alien queen in mass amounts or by workers singularly.  The
	queen was a great idea and showed a logical heirarchical organization,
	a society, much like insects have.  This shows that aliens are well
	developed and explains why they work so well in a collective 
	fashion.  It also added an awesome and gargantuan twist to the
	alien genre.

> I'd like an example.  I don't know of any insects that *turn* their prey
> into their young.
> I'm not talking about laying eggs on the bodies of
> paralyzed prey, I'm talking about actually mutating the victim.

I'm not gonna go looking.  But I'm sure it's easy enough to find examples.
If anyone wants to jump in here, feel free.

	**  Stating this again, aliens do not turn their prey into young.
	They do function similarly to insects that ley eggs in their prey.
	The victim is essentially a gestation chamber.

> >> In addition, it made survival of the species much
> >> easier.  All you needed as one pod/facehugger/alien to start the whole
> >> species all over.  Much more realistic from a survival standpoint.
> 
> >Not at all.  But that's a debate for another day. . .
> 
> What?!!!  How can you say that requiring a queen to lay the eggs (and
> essentially making the entire species' survival depend on ONE organism)
> is as good as or better than having *every* member of the species able
> to reproduce?

Okay, I'll belabor it.  You have that one drone, from the first movie.  What
does it do? Kills, dies relatively quickly, turns it's victim into another
pod.  The pod produces a f'hugger, and the whole thing begins again. . .
when  a suitable host comes along. You will never have more than that one
drone, reproducing itself. Contrast this with a Queen that's super fast and 
strong and can lay umpteenillion eggs at once, and even go out and find 
hosts for the eggs.  The eggs hatch, f'huggers produce more drones, which 
go out and wreak havok. . .you get the idea.  The species can propogate 
MUCH faster this way, And you eliminate the essential element of needing 
two hosts per drone, as opposed to one.

	**  Pretty good assessment except that the one drone did not turn
	a victim into a  pod. (Read the book if you don't believe me.)
	But you are right about the queen's importance.


> >Come on.  You're gonna actually tell me you were more impressed, sitting there
> >watching the Alien explode (full-sized!) from that dog with vaguely doglike
> >attributes, than you were with that incredible scene where Ripley stumbles 
> >onto the Queen in the egg chamber?  
> >Yes, to me "pales" is a very accurate description.
> 
> Then I guess we're looking at it from two different viewpoints.  You're
> examining how it affected you when you saw the huge queen.  While it
> was certainly impressive, it didn't do a whole lot for me.  I much prefer
> *information*.  To me, the information gained in the third is more useful
> than that gained in the second.  Even if the scene wasn't as impressive.

This is horsepuckey.  You are now out of the realm of opinion and into that
of practical utility, and the fact that the Alien takes on attributes of the
host is in no way more useful information that the fact that there's some 
mongo Queen mama alien out there capable of laying thousands more eggs.  
Consider what would've happened if Ripley hadn't known it was a Queen inside
her, instead of a simple drone.  And I'll repeat: the scene where the Alien
bursts out of the dog, aside from being sloppily done, doesn't accent any
real Different qualities from the first two.  If it weren't pointed out, 
it might not even be noticed. . .we don't see that much of the Alien.  And 
I'll also repeat. . .how was/is this information useful?  Let alone More
useful than the info that Queens are needed to perpetuate the race?

	**  It has made me wonder whether or not aliens take on certain
	similar qualities of their victims.  The one in Alien 3 was pointed
	out as being somewhat different (by the way it moves), and it is
	conceivable that a gestating alien borrows DNA from its host to 
	supplement its own.  I will make clear, though, that the alien that
	emerged from the dog (this scene was done rather well in fact, at 
	least I cringed) was *not* full sized, but instead the camera 
	gave a nice close up view of our beloved alien infant so that it
	seemed bigger.  This little guy still had a lot of growing to do.


> >> It explains how the Aliens adapt so well to their
> >> current habitat.  If they gestate in 5 different species, it will generate
> >> 5 different types of Alien, at least one of which should be able to survive
> >> in the current conditions.  Again, very realistic from a survival standpoint.
> 
> >Nah. Again, I won't get into it, but I'll include one last throwaway comment:
> 
> Please, let's get into.  I'd enjoy a debate about one of my favorite movies
> (as long as it doesn't degenerate into a flame war).

Okay, but I think we've beaten this into the ground.  Why don't we take this
off line?

	** Let's not entirely ignore that first point, it seems to be
	a good argument and a possibility.

> >Remember that, on the site of first contact, the Aliens were not indigenous.  
> >Neither were the humans.  There is an 'absolute' for survival fitness.
> 
> I don't understand your point here.

I mean that if you're one of those who thinks the Aliens are incredible
survival organisms, this is another aspect of their lifecycle that's very
overrated.  If the first species on earth that comes along is a bunny 
rabbit, then the resultant Alien is gonna get chomped by my German Shepard.
With a multiplicity of choices, the f'hugger isn't guaranteed of picking 
the one with the best survival skills.  This is why I pointed out that 
neither their species or ours was indiginous to LV426: there is potentially
an even nastier beastie out there, and the f'hugger would've done better
impregnating it.  Which brings me to:

	**  Hey, when it comes to survival, sometimes you can't pick and
	choose.  Besides, I doubt that you would ever see the case of 
	a killer Bugs Bunny running around a ship's hold.  Aliens may take
	on some attributes of a host creature, but the general structure
	and size of the alien remains constant.  Who knows, an alien
	mating with a bunny (assuming the bunny is large enough to 
	accomodate the embryo) may come out as an alien with exceptional
	jumping ability.  But forget pinning long ears and a bushy tail on
	him.
 

	**  And that's all the news for this evening.

		Good Night.



				- Rob