From: knguyen@emr1.emr.ca (Kim Nguyen)
Subject: Re: [POL] DIALOG (DDie^.n Bie^n Phu?)
Organization: Energy, Mines, and Resources, Ottawa
Date: Sat, 12 Dec 1992 04:33:26 GMT

In article <1992Dec11.194226.706@news.media.mit.edu> groucho!thinh@uu.psi.com 
wr
ites:
>
>HI netters:
>
>There were many good and bad points expressed over the subject of independent
>of Vietnam. In trying not to confuse the issue even more, I will use the above
two
>excerps to say somthings:
>
>>>  Well, history has a way of repeating itself. It was General Giap who led 
th
e
>>>battle that expelled the French from VN, forever and ever, regaining the
>>>nation's honors that had been sullied by a century of French exploitation.
>>>And you know who invited the American troops into SVN ! (Had President 
Kenned
y
>>>not been assasinated, history might have been different !).
>
>>Shoudl I add that it was general Gia'p with Chinese guns and ammunitions and
>>Vietnamese bodies...? Frankly I admired the victory (currently a French movie
>>is being made about this famous battle) but I wonder if HCM and his closest
>>aids had all the sayings in the war as later proved by the signing of the
>>Geneva accord.
>
>This reponse from Cuong reminds me that last summer, while in Europe, I had 
the
>great fortune to see two French movies about Vietnam that were excellent. They
>are "L'Indochine" and "DDie^.n Bie^n Phu?" (this may be the one Cuong is 
talkin
g
>about). Holywood's Vietnam movies always disapointed me. They either so sad 
whe
n
>they tell truth stories ("Casualties of War") or comically stupid when they 
try
>to feed the fantasies of shallow minded Americans ("Rambos" and all others). 
An
d
>always the Vietnamese were portraited as, at best, a loyal sidekick or easy 
tar
get
>in fighting scences with no real human chacteristic at all. Vietnamese women 
ar
e
>ussually portrait as either exotic protitudes or simple minded girls and at 
the

>end falling madly in love with the American heros (this is a requirement for 
as
ian
>woman in Holywood movies).
>
>These two movies were different. They are both well acted, filmed and made. 
The
y
>are both long and beautifully filmed mostly on location in Vietnam. 
"L'Indochin
e"
>tell the story of a French/Vietnamese girl (Catherine Deneuve played her 
mother

>superbly) who went across northern Vietnam during the turbulant period in the
>early 1950s to find her love. During the journey, she had gotten to know the
>people, the country and slowly being transformed from a naive, rich, privilege
>and love struck little girl into a real caring Vietnamese, a fugitive from the
>French government, and finally a Viet Minh leader... (I better stop here
>before I give the movie away). My favorite part of the movie is the 
cinematogra
phy.
>Most of the movie showed the beautifull landscape of the northern part of 
Vietn
am
>(especially vi.nh Ha. Long) that I always dream of but never have a chance to 
s
ee.
>
>The second movie "DDie^.n Bie^n Phu?", as the title suggested, tell in a very
>grand, objective and moving fashion the famous battle of DDie^.n Bie^n Phu?.
>It's very well researched and made. I hope all the Vietnamese in the US (and 
ev
ery
>where else for that matter) will have a chance to see these two movies. It's 
th
e
>best movies about Vietnam I had ever seen in a long time.
>
>I also have something I would like to say about the response paragraph. Of 
cour
se,
>the bodies were Vietnamese. Otherwise, the Chinese would claimed the victory a
long time
>ago. Growing up in S. Vietnam most of us were denied many truths about 
sensitiv
e
>subject like Vie^.t Minh, Ho^` chi' Minh and DDie^.n Bie^n Phu? just like our
>counterparts in the North were denied the truth about freedom and democracy in
the
>outside world. Both of these method only make Vietnamese ignorant. Books about
these
>topics that are allowed in S. Vietnam (not to mention our households) are very
subjective
>to the government agenda. We can now talk openly about these subjects. Let's 
us
e
>it wisely. There are so many documentation available for us to study and make 
a
 better
>conclusion. By debate about them on SCV, we can learn more about it from our 
pe
ers.
>
>DDie^.n Bie^n Phu? was a glorious victory not just for Vietnamese but for all
>nations in the world that were suffered the atrocities of colonization. 
DDie^.n

>Bie^n Phu? showed them how vunerable the great French, Britain ... are. It 
show
ed
>that a small, poor country with only the will of the people can defeat a 
mighty
>nation at their own game. Everyone in the world but S. Vietnam give Vietnamese
full
>credit for it but because of Vo? Nguye^n Gia'p and Vie^.t Minh I have heard 
man
y
>Vietnamese try very hard to suggest that the Chinese did all the works. The 
Gen
eva
>conference was formed under the leadership of 4 big nations and the accord was
>signed by them because that the only way it can have the credential to be 
effec
tive.
>If you have solid evidences to prove otherwise, I think to simply state that 
th
e
>Chinese made all the decisions is not a very good way to learn history.
>
>I also see some netters suggested that because Ho^` chi' Minh had studied in
>France, China, Soviet ... his independence is questionable. If you really want
>to show his faults, then do it with thoughts and good reasonings. Don't just 
sa
y
>it because someone taught you so. If you cannot do a simple task like finding
>something bad to say about Ho^` chi' Minh convincely then how are you going to
>convince me that you know any better than his followers.
>
>sincerely,
>Thi.nh ngo.c Nguye^~n
>
-----

-To study history, we must see documentary films and read serious books.
Holywood's films are just symbolic for the events and for entertainment; they
won't give you any good thoughts and reasonings.

-You don't need to go around the world to see real films about Dien-Bien-Phu.
If you stayed in VN after 1975, you would see dozens of films like that.

-About Chinese did all the work : Chinese did decide almost the course of many
operations and policies from Hanoi. 

*Banh-Duc-Hoai helped Vo-Nguyen-Giap's operation with engineers (for setting 
up roads, bridges,...) and Chinese soldiers who were in charge of artilleries 
around Dien-Bien-Phu (plain of gods). That's what people from outside heard 
when China was angry at the leadership in Hanoi sided totally to USSR in 1978 
and ignored colossal hep from China in the past.

China did give Vietminh a big hand in Dien-Bien-Phu and period before that; 
that was why Chou en-Lai took an authoritavive role in the Geneva Conference. 
(Read Vietnam, a History by Karnow page 220).

*WE CAN SAY THAT, WITHOUT CHINA AND USSR'S HELP, NOTHING HANOI COULD DO. 
Vo-Nguyen-Giap strategy was a protracted war. All-out operations in 1968,
1972 were contrary to his viewpoint and needed fast and huge aids; as result, 
many different teams headed by Le-Duan and else must go to USSR and China 
before those operations. Many Vienamese books in California did say much about 
these undecent trips abroad to beg aids for killing North and South Vietnamese.

-No one can make a trivial conclusion about Ho's past basing only on his 
whereabouts abroad to call him *dependent*, but the focus is about his bringing
in a foreign doctrine from white men to apply on a yellow-skin people and did
not care about traditional family, religion and else of Vietnamese; his
researchers from Hanoi tried to explain why Vietnamsese society and marxist
one is no difference.

-About Dien-Bien-Phu triumph : this battle has created mixed feelings in 
Vietnamese. They felt proud that Vietnamese could resisted French with that
scale, but at the same time Vietnamese felt repugnant to the same so-called
patriotic group could eliminate, assassinate their fellows with a bigger
scale. Now was it *glorious* in its true meaning ?

-Saying Marxism-Leninism which are *deep-rooted* and *home-grown* in Vietnam 
is ridiculous. Do you know why there are hilarious studies with funny 
conclusions like that ? It is because in Hanoi there are a kind of institution 
to study history and warfare which looks like Institution of strategic study in 
the west. This communist institution researched Vietnam history under a marxist 
view; their analysis is almost to graft communist revolution to any aspect of 
life from the first day to this day of Vietnam history. THIS KIND OF GRAFTING
IS NOTHING MORE THAN USING A STRANGE AND FOREIGN DOCTRINE TO PUT ALL VIETNAM
HISTORY IN A MAXIST UMBRELLA. Check with some Vietnamese authors in Cali.
you will believe this. I don't know which references HKK based on to do his
thesis. That funny reasoning about *deep-root* is one of them.

-About Ho's faults : two netters did put at least one excerpt about Ho's 
activities from different sources; believing it or not is not the matter here; 
judgment is your part.

-About teaching : you got it wrong; here's just a forum for debate so you can
keep your viewpoint. As a matter of fact, one with progressive attitude must 
learn all the way until he dies.

Newsgroups: soc.culture.vietnamese