HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: macman+@pitt.edu (Dennis H Lippert)
Newsgroups: rec.autos
Subject: Re: Saturn featured on cover of this weeks BUSINESS WEEK
Date: 15 Aug 92 18:52:20 GMT
Organization: University of Pittsburgh

In article <6547@tekig7.PEN.TEK.COM> jitloke@tekig5.pen.tek.com (Jit-Loke Lim) writes:
>a quality product coupled with excellent service. Saturn should expand its
>line with more diverse products but NOT merely rebadge other GM products. As an
>extreme example, a Saturn Corvette would be the wrong line-up. Personally, I
>don't think GM would be so damned stupid to do that. GM has a wonderful thing

I'm not so sure I agree with you....

(1) the 'Vette is a fiberglass body (i.e. not typical stamped-metal)
(2) from what I understand, the 'Vette has a fairly decent quality 
    reputation...
(3) the 'Vette shares virtually no parts with any Chevy (at least in ZR-1
    guise
(4) the 'Vette (supposedly) has very little (no?) Chevy identification on
    it (I heard that somewhere, never bothered to verify it)

All in all, I can see more reasons to put the 'Vette with Saturn than to
keep it with Chevy.  Of course, tradition has a 99.999999999999999999999%
chance of keeping it where it's at now, but...

-Den

-- 
===============================================================================
Dennis Lippert   -   macman+@pitt.edu or macman@vm2.cis.pitt.edu
The "Mac Maniac" operator at the Hillman Research Lab - Univ. of Pittsburgh
"All comments are mine, you'd look like a fool if *you* used them"
From: karl@isgtec.com (Karl Sewlochan)
Newsgroups: rec.autos
Subject: All Season Tires
Date: 11 Aug 92 21:18:35 GMT
Distribution: na
X-Newsreader: Tin 1.1 PL4

My mother needs new tires for new 1986 Cutlas Ciera (I believe that
the tire size is 185/70R14 or something like that) and as I don't
noramlly deal with these type of tires I have no idea what is good
out there.  The tires must be able to handle rain and snow.

Any recommendations?

Please email and I'll summarize and post.

Thx.


--
Karl Sewlochan        ...uunet.ca!isgtec!karl             karl@isgtec.com
ISG Technologies Inc.  3030 Orlando Dr. Mississauga.   Ont.  Can.  L4V 1S8
Newsgroups: rec.autos
From: jlysagh@hubcap.clemson.edu (james joseph lysaght)
Subject: possible octane advertising law
Organization: Clemson University
Date: Wed, 19 Aug 1992 15:24:32 GMT

Interesting tidbit I saw on the news this week.  We all know how well
advertised it is that high octane gas supposedly cleans your engine
better and gives you added power over the lower octane gasses.  Some of
us know what bunk this advertising is as all the gasses "clean" engines
equivalently and only certain cars can take advantage of possible power
boost from high octane.  In relation to this, our illustrious government
is considering a law banning the gas companies from advertising high
octane gas as having this feature.  Those in favor of this cite the fact
that those cars that can take advantage of higher octane say so in there
owners manual.  The law would also require car makers to place a decal
inside the gas lid stating what octane is required by the vehicle.  This
may sound silly but I have to admit, I was once taken by the
advertisements that you should run a tank of high octane every third
tank to "clean out" your engine only to go through college in
engineering and learn that this is rediculous bunk and blatant false
advertising.  This was true 10 years ago when only the high octane gas
had the detergents but now all the gasses contain these detergents.

Just for those of you interested....

Jim

Personally, I don't care if the law passes or not, I know what gas my
car requires and I always use the same gas in the car without question.
So it wont help or hurt me.


Newsgroups: rec.autos
From: bednarek@picard.med.ge.com (Dennis Bednarek Mfg 4-6971)
Subject: Re: Paint Experts: does good paint easily chip?
Organization: GE Medical Systems, Magnetic Resonance
X-Newsreader: Tin 1.1 PL5
Date: Fri, 21 Aug 92 06:14:34 GMT


It sounds to me like sombody did not properly prep the surface prior to
appling the paint.  Almost all the paints I know of do not stick to dirt,
or even carwax.  My guess is that sombody has a case for small claims 
court or more concidering it would take a lot more work to correct the 
problem then it took to create it.  Like stripping all that new paint
off.

If it was a complete paint job, and properly preped a grand is not an unreal
price.  You are talking many hours work sanding then sealing, priming,
and finally spraying the finish coats.  Autobody people don't work cheap
if they a professional (upwards of $50.00 an hour) plus there is materials.

Dennis
													

--

  
###############################################################################
###NEVER - NEVERMORE###########################################################
###############################################################################
####################################What are the contents of the oblong box?##
###############################################################################
  The usual disclaimer of self and employer applies to all above comments.
#
From: jtchew@csa3.lbl.gov (JOSEPH T CHEW)
Newsgroups: rec.autos
Subject: Re: "Factory Air"
Date: 15 Aug 92 05:13:17 GMT
Organization: Lawrence Berkeley Laboratory - Berkeley, CA, USA
Reply-To: jtchew@csa3.lbl.gov
NNTP-Posting-Host: 128.3.254.198
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.3-4   

>As opposed to what?

Please, God, not the "feeling old" thread again.  Back when 
The Flintstones was a documentary, air conditioning was not
nearly so common. (My recollection is that it really took off
in the early 70s; I don't know if there was a technological driver
for this, or if it was just one of those demographic-lemming
phenomena.)  Anyway, some people retrofitted these little
aftermarket air conditioners, which you may have seen hanging
under the dashboards of old cars.  These units acquired a
reputation for rinky-dink reliability and dubious performance,
so "factory air" became an advertising buzzword.

There's a bit more to air conditioning than an air conditioner.
You're supposed to also put in a higher-capacity cooling 
system, a gizmo to perk up the idle revs and another to override
the AC switch when you put your foot into the gas, and a bigger
alternator.  All these things usually come with "factory air"
(and presumably dealer-installed pseudofactory air) but might 
not be included with aftermarket units.

--Joe
"Just another personal opinion from the People's Republic of Berkeley"
Xref: sparky rec.autos:20097 rec.autos.driving:4962
From: simnet@ssc-vax.boeing.com (Mark R Poulson)
Newsgroups: rec.autos,rec.autos.driving
Subject: Re: Replacement tire pressure
Summary: Look at the tire WEIGHT rating!
Date: 17 Aug 92 20:30:16 GMT
Distribution: na
Organization: Boeing Defense and Space Group, Seattle WA

In article <1992Aug13.222840.10705@usho93.hou281.chevron.com>, xepama@usmi02.midland.chevron.com (P.Mann) writes:
> My VW van needs new tires.  The ones which it had are no longer
> made.  My tire dealer has recommended a different brand. 
> 
> My problem is that the owners' manual states I need to have 39 PSI
> in the front tires and 48 in back for normal loads, and the replacement
> brand has a max pressure of 40 PSI.  It seems to me that the newer tires
> would be unsuitable, yet the maker claims they are the correct model
> for my vehicle.

Some tire manufactures (Michelin and Fulda seem to do this) make tires that
can support only a typical weight for their sidewall size, but yet operate a
higher than the "normal" 32 or 36 PSI limits. If your van came with tires
like this, then the owners manual is taking this into consideration when
listing the recommended tire pressures. Pressure, by itself, is meaningless
in the generic world of tires.

The most important thing to check is the maximum weight rating of the original
tires. This is on the sidewall and will say something like: MAX LOAD 1300
LBS AT 45 PSI. This also indicates the maximum pressure you can safely put
into the tire. Some newer tires have a number (usually in the nineties) that
indicates their load rating -- example "185/70-14 91H" has a load rating of
91 units. I think these still list the pound rating on the sidewall, so you
can cross reference the weight to a "unit".  You MUST meet or exceed this load
limit to be safe.

If the new tires you want to use meet this load limit, then you are going
to have so see at what pressure they meet it. If you had 50 PSI tires with a
48 PSI recommended, then I would put in 48/50 (i.e. 0.96) times the rating of
the new tires (a 32 PSI tire would be inflated to 30.72 PSI). This will
put you in the ballpark, and you may need to go up or down a little to
compensate for different wear characteristics. If you haven't changed sizes
(only pressures and designs), then the above math should work well. Wider
tires generally need less pressure to get the same wear characteristics and
narrower tires need a little more.

If for some reason you have skinny, high pressure tires with a high load
rating that you can't match with some other tire, then you need to look at
"light truck" tires which have stiffer sidewalls and higher load rating for
the same tire size. I don't think you'll find an American LT tire that will
fit on a VW van though. I would ask your vee dub dealer what to do (like what
do they use on the new vans??) if this happens.

			Mark
From: tmca@Wairau.as.utexas.edu (Tim Abbott)
Newsgroups: rec.autos
Subject: Jeep Grand Cherokee Laredo and other 4WD
Date: 22 Aug 92 21:52:38 GMT
Organization: McDonald Observatory, University of Texas @ Austin
Originator: tmca@Wairau.as.utexas.edu


Hi folks,


I've got this job where I'll be spending 2 years in the Atacama
Desert in Chile working for the European Southern Observatory.
If I can't get around -> insane. Therefore I'm looking into various
4WD thingies that'll take me over the hills and back again (it'll
see all weather patterns, not just desert - Chile is small, but
skinny and awfully tall with about every climate you can think of).

So far, the best I've found (other than the Rangerover and the Toyota
Landcruiser, neither of which I can afford) is the Jeep Grand Cherokee 
Laredo. I've also test-driven the Isuzu Trooper SE (top heavy, drives 
like a very large brick,  no fun at all, think that Car&Driver, who 
said it was better than the Jeep musthave been on some nasty substances) 
and the Nissan Pathfinder (not bad, but more expensive and doesn't seem
as rugged).

So, what do you think of the Jeep? Is it capable of serious 4WD 
work? Is it reliable (the nearest dealer will be ~400 miles away)?

Any other ideas?

I don't really know much about 4WD hence: which is better 
standard 5-speed or automatic?

	Thanks for any comments,

		Tim

From: davek@hplsla.hp.com (Dave Kelley)
Date: Wed, 12 Aug 1992 17:13:56 GMT
Subject: Re: T-Bird turbo coupe
Organization: HP Lake Stevens, WA
Newsgroups: rec.autos

/ hplsla:rec.autos / awds_ltd@uhura.cc.rochester.edu (Man Of Steel) / 12:10 pm  Aug 11, 1992 /
I'm experiencing a problem with my '88 Thunderbird Turbo Coupe.
This problem seems to have started very soon after I had
the engine bay cleaned(water only, while engine ran).

When the car is first started, everything is fine.  Idles around 1000 rpm,
accelerates normally, etc.  After it is warm, the first time I try 
hard acceleration, my boost guage will go all the way up to about 15psi,
then I can hear the engine knock, then boost is restrained back to 7-9 psi.
Now, on engine deceleration, throttle return is much slower(takes longer
to return to lower rpms), and idle becomes around 1500-1800 rpm.  I always
run 92+ octane unleaded, and am certain it's not fuel quality.  I have a feeling it could be a knock sensor which was wet during cleaning, but I'm worried
about big $ diagnostics.       

	Has anyone ever experienced this?  I you have any ideas, please
post or email me.  
	Also, can anyone suggest a decent shop manual?  I'm interested
in one which is specific to the Turbo Coupe, if one exists.  Thanks

awds_ltd@uhura.cc.rochester.edu
  

    
----------
I have had the same problem with my Turbo Coupe.  The problem turned out
to be a bad throttle sensor.  I hear that this is a very common problem
with these cars.
Newsgroups: rec.autos
From: joec@fid.morgan.com (Joe Collins)
Subject: Re: How Accurate is the Blue Book?
Organization: None
Distribution: usa
Date: Fri, 21 Aug 1992 20:43:26 GMT

In article <21AUG199214215169@tm0006.lerc.nasa.gov> rmc1862@tm0006.lerc.nasa.gov (Rodger M. Cliff) writes:
>In article <1992Aug19.171410.10431@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu>, jcasella@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (Joseph A Casella) writes...
>    [deleted story of dealing with used car dealers]
>>Is there any chance that these guys weren't lying to me--that their wholesale 
>>prices were really higher than the blue book retail prices?  And, for that 
>>matter, how much leverage does using book value give you in negotiations with 
>>the dealer?  Should I let them know I know the prices or not?
>
>I know someone who owns a "reputable" used car dealership.  He confirmed that 
>NADA prices are only guidelines - a few cars will bring more at the auctions, 
>a lot will bring less.  I found this out the hard way when I went to trade in
>my Isuzu DIESEL several years ago.

I don't trust the prices dealers quote when you do a trade-in unless
you can confirm it independently. I have a 1987 MAXIMA with 69k miles on it
and I heard trade-in quotes from $4000 to $7500 for the car. Published
BLUE-BOOK (EDMUNDS USER CAR GUIDE) says my car is worth about $5800 or so.
BTW, I selling it for $6900 - any takers?

Joe
joec@morgan.com
From: wrat@unisql.UUCP (wharfie)
Newsgroups: rec.autos
Subject: Re: $758 for an oil change?
Date: 19 Aug 92 21:21:44 GMT
Reply-To: wrat@unisql.UUCP (wharfie)
Organization: UniSQL, Inc., Austin, Texas, USA

In article <1992Aug19.030501.29432@engage.pko.dec.com> sontakke@helix.enet.dec.com (Vikas Sontakke) writes:
>Personally, I have no intention of forking $600-1200 at 60K miles.  Scheduled
>maintanance is listed in the owners manual.  Don't let a dealer pad it up.

	I'm going to pay my independent the 3-400 it takes.  

Newsgroups: rec.autos
From: mike%jim.uucp@wupost.wustl.edu (Mike Suter)
Subject: Re: Fixing holes in center console
Organization: BITS, St. Louis, MO
Date: Fri, 21 Aug 1992 15:27:57 GMT

>The holes aren't all that noticeable, but if I could, I would like
>to fix them somehow.  Has anybody had experience patching holes
>in plastic or does anybody have any good ideas on how to go about
>doing this?

You may want to check out one of the dashboard crack repair kits.
They contain some filler, which hardens in the crack (or hole in
this case), and color to apply over the filler.

(BTW, has anyone ever used one of these kits?  How are the results?)

Mike
-- 
mike%jim.uucp@wupost.wustl.edu
Newsgroups: rec.autos
From: chapman@centerline.com (Scott Chapman, (Scott Chapman x233))
Subject: Re: Does anyone like the new Prelude?
Reply-To: chapman@centerline.com
Organization: CenterLine Software
Date: Wed, 12 Aug 1992 14:52:52 GMT

In article 36745@sdcc12.ucsd.edu, za72@sdcc3.ucsd.edu (mo'money) writes:
>In article <BsuH1z.Byt@news.cso.uiuc.edu> rra21220@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (Rae R. Aranas) writes:
>>I was just wondering what
>>all of the rec.auto readers
>>thought about the new 
>>Honda Prelude 
>>
>>Looking for opinions,
>>RRA
>
>let just say the prelude was not in need of a new design


I disagree, although the old 'lude was a great car, their main competition
was coming from the Toyota Celica (surely you noticed the design similarities).

Also, with the new MX-6 coming out, they had to redesign it.

Also, if I remember correctly, Honda is on a 5-6 year product cycle, and I think
the older 'lude was introduced in '86-'87 (or something like that?).

---
                                  |
                    Scott Chapman | chapman@centerline.com
              CenterLine Software | (617) 498-3230
                   10 Fawcett St. | (617) 868-6655 (FAX)
              Cambridge, MA 02138 | (Centerline was formerly Saber Software)
                                  |
Organization: Penn State University
Date: Wed, 19 Aug 1992 10:35:15 EDT
From: <WJT101@psuvm.psu.edu>
Newsgroups: rec.autos
Subject: used '91 535i vs. new '92 929

Hello,
A friend of mine is in the market for a new car.  Two cars he is considering
are a used 1991 BMW 535i with 19,000 miles and a brand new 1992 Mazda 929.
He can get both cars for about the same price.  I was wondering if there are
any people out there with experiences with either the Bimmer 535i or the new
Mazda 929.  Thanks!!
From: hugh@hpscit.sc.hp.com (Hugh Rice)
Date: Thu, 20 Aug 1992 20:23:45 GMT
Subject: Re: How Accurate is the Blue Book?
Organization: Hewlett-Packard, Santa Clara, CA
Newsgroups: rec.autos

I've had good luck using the "Kelly" Blue Book to get an **indication** of
a market value of a vehicle, and have seen reasonable correlation between
it and what is happening in the used car market in the SF Bay Area.  I 
recommend it as a guide.

However, the true value of a car is what you are willing to pay, or 
what someone is willing to pay you.  A big dose of patience seems to have
a significant effect on this number.  I've found that I can sell a
"clean" used car for about the average of the wholesale and retail blue
book prices if I wait for the right buyer.  Also, I've been able to buy
cars for low (wholesale) blue book by waiting for the right buy.  (And by 
making a low offer, leaving my number, and waiting for a desperate seller 
to call back.)

Now a question:  There seems to be several "Blue Books".  I've only seen
the Kelly publication.  What is the story on the NADA one?  Are their any
other sources of data for what used cars are selling for?  Are these
publications regional?

Thanks for any input,

Hugh Rice    hugh@scd.hp.com
Newsgroups: rec.autos,rec.autos.tech
From: tgl@slee01.srl.ford.com (Tom Leone)
Subject: Re: TOYOTA's timing belt
Organization: Ford Motor Company Scientific Research Labs, Dearborn, MI
Date: Thu, 20 Aug 1992 16:34:30 GMT

No, you are not risking engine damage if your timing belt
breaks.  According to _Motor_ magazine (August 1991, page 22),
all Toyota gasoline engines with timing belts from 1981 through
1990 are "freewheeling".  That means that there is enough
clearance between the pistons and the valves that even if the
belt breaks, there is no chance of the pistons hitting the
valves.  Many engines are not freewheeling, and have a bad
reputation for trashing engines (e.g. most Hondas and Nissans,
and the older, 1.6L Escorts).

However, Toyota does recommend replacing the timing belt every
60,000 miles.  It is not good for customer satisfaction to have
someone stranded on the road with a broken timing belt, and they
do break eventually.

Tom Leone <tgl@slee01.srl.ford.com>
From: wesf@hpdmd48.boi.hp.com (Wes Fujii)
Date: Thu, 20 Aug 1992 15:28:39 GMT
Subject: Re: ANYBODY INTO 64-73 MUSCLECARS??
Organization: Hewlett Packard - Boise, ID
Newsgroups: rec.autos

In <1992Aug13.222119.18094@bnr.ca>Eric Youngblood writes:

>Having a blast restoring a 77 TA.... (even if it is newer than 73)  B^)

The '77s and '78s are among my favorites.  Be sure to put the correct hood
decal on!  It drives me nuts when I see a nice T/A with the wrong bird!

Wes Fujii

* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
* Wes Fujii               *           JAPANESE BUSINESS MOTTO           *
* Boise, Idaho            *        You can buy anything you want        *
* wesf@hpdmd48.boi.hp.com *             with a lot of money             *
* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
Newsgroups: rec.autos
From: chuck@westford.ccur.com (Chuck Palmer)
Subject: How to set a price on a unique/classis car
Followup-To: rec.autos, chuck@westford.ccur.com
Summary: how much for a 1973 Olds 98 with 24K Miles
Keywords: Big, Low Mileage
Organization: Concurrent Computer Corp. Westford MA.
Distribution: usa
Date: Fri, 21 Aug 1992 14:24:36 GMT


My question is how to set a price on a car that is definitely worth
more than book value. Are there "appraisers"? And once a price is
set what's the most effective way to find a *Buyer* at/around that
price. I know a trade-in is *not* the way to go.

I have heard that there is a Oldsmobile Owners Club...any details?

My specific case is a 1973 Olds 98 with 24K Original miles. I personally
like it, but the needs of my wife and family for a practical car tend
to dictate that it becoming time to sell it ( plus I need my driveway
back). The car was originally my mother's and she hated driving, hence
the low mileage.

I just put it back on the road last week. It started right up and runs
fine. Does eat a bit of gas - 455 cubic inch V8 and 2.25 tons of car.
It has one dent in the front quarter panel, and a little bit of rust.
I put rust reformer on a few spots, but generally the body and paint is
in excellent shape. The interior is perfect. A regular rolling living
room. It only has an AM radio and neither the front *or rear* clock
work. Power Windows, Power seats, AC. Virtually all service record -
it has been well maintained. Never a major problem. The guy that did
the last service on it said that it even has the original brake pads.
(He also said they would need to be replaced soon - and I was hoping
to get 20 years out of them. ;-) It is Emerald Green and uses unleaded gas.

It has never been driven in the winter, and has 24,100 miles.
As recently as 4 years ago it had only 14,000 miles.

I'm not (really) fishing for offers (yet), but rather suggestions on
how to set a fair price. Your advice is appreciated.


                                chuck p.                
        
    +-------------------------------------------------------------------+
    |    Charles Palmer                        (x2997)                  |
    |    chuck@westford.ccur.com                508-392-2997            |
    |    One Technology Way                Fax: 508-392-2492            |
    |    Westford, Ma. 01886                                            |
    +-------------------------------------------------------------------+
-- 
                                   chuck p.

    +-------------------------------------------------------------------+
    |    Charles Palmer                        (x2997)                  |
From: rrusk@ssd.csd.harris.com (Bob Rusk)
Newsgroups: rec.autos
Subject: Re: Michelin MXV tire and its competitors
Date: 19 Aug 92 20:41:16 GMT
	<Bt8n27.HpF@acsu.buffalo.edu> <23844@oasys.dt.navy.mil>
Reply-To: rrusk@ssd.csd.harris.com
Distribution: usa
Organization: Harris Computer Systems Division

On 19 Aug 92 18:37:08 GMT, bense@oasys.dt.navy.mil (Ron Bense) wrote:

>In rec.autos, lps@cs.Buffalo.EDU (Lawrence P. Schnitzer) writes:
>>In article <omq63dc@fido.asd.sgi.com>, lauro@kauai.esd.sgi.com (Lauro B. Manala
>>c) writes:
>>|> I have to put in a yes vote for MXVs as far as wear goes. I've had the same
>>|> set on my Legend for 4 years and 85,000+ miles. I will probably finally

>>I'm glad I don't drive on the same roads that you do.  You must have
>>the baldest tires in the U.S.

>Believe it or not, my dad had a set of Michelen Truck tires that, after
>100k, has more than 2/32 tread depth (the minimum recommended depth).
>Richard Welty has indicated that wear for the V versus H ratings appears
>to differ a staggering amount, with V rated MXVs getting no where near
>the mileage common for the half wear point on H rated MXVs.

For another data point, I put a set of Michelin XZX 185R14's on my '81
Toyota Pickup in '81.  I took them off in '86 with 90K miles on the set.
They still had enough tread to be legal, but winter was coming.  I replaced
them with another set.  They rode and handled well, and this durability
was in spite of routinely being overloaded on long trips.

--
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
 Bob Rusk			    | An egoless acceptance of stuckness is a
 rrusk@ssd.csd.harris.com	    | key to an understanding of all Quality.
 My thoughts, probably not Harris'. |			   - Robert M. Pirsig