From: mlibucha@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (Mark A Libucha)
Subject: Re: What do I think about the "Protection Bill" ?
Organization: The Ohio State University
Date: Tue, 13 Oct 1992 01:21:39 GMT

In article <7530@blue.cis.pitt.edu.UUCP> kzest+@pitt.edu (Ke Zeng) writes:
>In article <1992Oct12.113514.3396@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu> mlibucha@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (Mark A Libucha) writes:
>>In article <7494@blue.cis.pitt.edu.UUCP> kzest+@pitt.edu (Ke Zeng) writes:
>>>In article <1992Oct11.155334.26286@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu> mlibucha@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (Mark A Libucha) writes:
>>>>In article <Bvy4Cs.6I8@usenet.ucs.indiana.edu> xiong@bsu-cs.bsu.edu (Bo Xiong) writes:
>>>>>
>>>....
>>>>
>>>... 
>>
>...
>>
>>But the good will of the U.S. is a limited commodity. Instead of using the
>>massacre to pressure the U.S. to put pressure on the CCP for human rights
>>improvements within China, almost all the attention was focussed on granting
>>freedom for the Chinese in the U.S. (who I believe are really in no more
>>difficulty than any other Chinese in China--except for a limited few). So
>>now the U.S. has done its part. All the capital available was used up 
>>fighting for this bill.
>
>	Your "instead" is obviously wrong and I guess you at least now,
>after reading your own lines carefully, would realize this. I don't
>understand "all the capital available was used up fighting for this
>bill". This statement apparently serves as basis for your wrong anology.
>Since the whole "capital" (the bus) should have belonged to those fighting
>for democracy inside China, and now this non-dividable "bus" is totally
>"stolen" by those outside China. Protection bill is just part of the
>pressures (as you called it) that have been used to put on the CCP. From
>your statement it seems this bill has been the only thing CSS and US
>have done in this issue. Of course it's not true.

I see your point that the bill is one part of the pressure on the CCP, but
it bothers me that it just happens to coincide with what (almost) every
Chinese in the U.S. wanted before 6/4: to get a green card. Of all the 
things the CSS could have pushed, it's more than coincidental, in my
opinion, that they demanded green cards.

>
>>
>>The CSS in the U.S. should have said, "We don't want protection! We want 
>>the human rights situation improved in China so that we can return to China."
>>Such a move would have put the pressure on Bush to veto MFN, or to make some
>						   ^^^^^^
>						do you mean "sign" here?
>>other significant move concerning human rights in China. 
>
>	Very good!! This "so that" is based human rights situation and
>of course safety. But "we don't want protection" is much too idealized.
>No one, including you, would reject protection if one thinks he/she is
>not safe. Why do you push others to take risk? Besides, don't you think
>students in US have been pushing US goverment to pressure China to
>improve human rights condition?

If the CSS in the U.S. are not safe, then every Chinese in China is not 
safe. The average Chinese in the U.S. will be persecuted in China only 
if he/she "makes trouble". How does that make them any different from
the Chinese in China? They're not any more at risk than when they came to
the U.S.

If you consider calling the CCP names while one runs away, then yes, I
think the students in the US have been pressuring the CCP.

>
>>
>>So the bus was stolen from the people who really need the help of foreign
>>countries like the U.S.: those who are fighting for democracy in China.
>>
>	Your logic is: if bill were not signed, the sources would have
>been used for those fighting for democracy in China. And you know how
>wrong this logic is, right?

	That's not what I said, or meant to imply. The CSS here could have
used the Massacre in any one of hundreds of different ways. They used it to
push the bill. So I think the sources *should* have, not would have, been
used for those fighting for democracy in China.

>
>>To go from one analogy to another, in English we say, "you stole their 
>>thunder". You took all the good will they generated through their sacrifice 
>>on 6/4 and used it for your own good.
>
>	There exist many stealings in this world but they are not used
>for any anology. You admitted there are "sacrifices" and you don't try
>slightly to blame those who caused them but rather to attack those who
>do not want continouly to sacrifise for no thing at momnent.

What I say and who I blame is obviously of little consequence to anyone. I'm
just trying to point out that how I feel is how a lot of Chinese in China
are going to feel. Your arguments about being at risk, and pressuring the
CCP by getting yourselves green cards are going to be considered self-
serving and opportunistic. I respect dissenting opinions, but time will
tell.

>-- 
>  K. Zeng University of Pittsburgh (412)624-3219 bitnet: kzest@pittvms
>  internet: kzest@unix.cis.pitt.edu  or  kzest@vms.cis.pitt.edu


Newsgroups: soc.culture.china