From: tomas_e@LINK.Physchem.KTH.SE (Tomas Eriksson)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.nordic
Subject: Re: Medical Programs (was RE: Swedish Prime Minister says Sweden)
Date: 8 Apr 92 16:12:59 GMT
Reply-To: tomas_e@LINK.Physchem.KTH.SE
Organization: Royal Institute of Technology, Stockholm

huumala@tnclus.tele.nokia.fi writes:

>> Well, you're right... almost. Deduct at least one year from U.S. college
>> to make up for their inferior high school.
>Are you sure it is easier over there?  Have you gone to public high school
>in the states?  In every state?  Did you know that every state has their own
>standards and requirements for graduation?

Of course I have gone to public high school in every state in the USA. 
How can you even assume otherwise?

Have you?

Seriously, I have not met a single person who considers the typical 
level of US high school higher than the level in Sweden. You are also 
one year older when you leave secondary school, so in some sense things 
even out if you look at people of the same age.

>> Then remember that you 
>> get a <professional> doctorate over there when you've completed 
>> med-school. So you add four postgraduate years to become medicine doktor 
>> in Sweden.
>Can you began practicing after 5.5 years?

no. In reality 5.5 years university + 2 years residency/internship + 4.5
years to become a specialist = 12 years, if you want to go into private 
practice and make big money. That was how this discussion started.

> You can not began practicing in
>the states until a minimum of 9 years plus the two years of internship.

8 (4+4) years + internship according to your own figures in your last
posting. And you should still deduct at least one year. Plus that you 
get the added psychological comfort of also having a B.A./B.S./B.?. in X.

>> Another point is that the
>> four  undergraduate years in college are probably much easier
>The key word here is "probably".  The same rule applies here as it does to
>high schools.  Some are rather dumpy, but on the other hand there are, beyond
>any questionable doubt, very fine undergraduate universities in the U.S.  To
>arbitrarly lable undergraduate programs in Sweden more difficult than in
>the U.S. is rather assumptious.

You misunderstood me. I did *not* imply what you write in your last 
sentence above. In fact, I didn't even mention any Swedish undergraduate
program other than medicine. First read and then reply, please.

Oh, by the way, what are we discussing? Perhaps we should just say that 
it costs a shitload of money to become a physician/"doctor" in USA, 
while the nice Swedish government collects taxes (on taxes on taxes...)
to keep them medical faculties running.

The latest figures for health-care spending I saw (a few years old) 
indicated that USA spends *more* than Sweden on health-care, as % of 
GDP. I guess this is a lot of greedy M.D.'s getting their fees back with 
a lot of interest. If this makes the health-care bill more expensive, 
I'm not the least reluctant to have things the Swedish way.

Oh yes, to stir up some more controversy: I think it's wrong to call a 
degree "doctor of..." if the person who is awarded the degree hasn't 
done several years of original, independent research in an area which 
(s)he receieved thorough undergraduate training.

Tomas
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Tomas Eriksson                                          tomas_e@physchem.kth.se
            Surface Force Group, Department of Physical Chemistry,
               Royal Institute of Technology, Stockholm, Sweden
Newsgroups: soc.culture.nordic