HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: jaffray@sunkist.berkeley.edu (Alan Jaffray)
Newsgroups: alt.psychoactives
Subject: Piracetam short-term effect?
Date: 15 Aug 1992 20:44:00 GMT
Organization: U.C. Berkeley Math. Department.
NNTP-Posting-Host: sunkist.berkeley.edu

How long must one take piracetam before effects become significant?
Is it a build-up over several weeks, or do they become noticable
immediately?  This is information irritatingly missing from Pelton's
book.

I ask mainly because I'm going to start graduate study this fall, which
is not exactly a stable context in which to examine the long-term effects
of a drug.  But if effects are immediate (and thus distinguishable from
grad school effects), they would be very useful...

Thanks,

Alano
Newsgroups: alt.psychoactives
From: rigler@galileo.ifa.hawaii.edu (Michael A. Rigler)
Subject: Re: DMAE stops working
Organization: IFA
Date: Tue, 18 Aug 1992 21:57:35 GMT

>(Mike Rigler) writes:
>|> Unfortunately, it stopped working after two months, so I've quit
>|> taking it entirely.  I'll just have to endure this next month without
>|> it.  Fortunately I've got a head start: after two months spent taking 
>|> DMAE instead of guzzling cups of black coffee, I feel great!

(Douglas P Barton) writes:
>Since you ceased taking DMAE, have you thought of trying it again to see
>whether the reduction in effect was due to a temporary tolerance within the
>body or a permanent one?  Anyone out there care to hazzard a guess as to
>which of these might be the case?

Yes, of course.  Sorry, I should have mentioned that I have every 
intention of trying DMAE again, after, say, one month "cold turkey"
(that would be three weeks from now).  And, of course, at that time 
I will post my impressions to this newsgroup. 

BTW:  My guess is that the tolerance is a temporary one.  I also believe
      I built up a tolerance more quickly by taking 1 gm per day, than
      I would have with 1/3 that dosage.

--
Rigler                       Joy and Sorrow are the wings of Yearning 
                  
                  
Newsgroups: alt.psychoactives
From: williams@herky.cs.uiowa.edu (Kent Williams)
Subject: Re: DMAE stops working
Date: Mon, 17 Aug 1992 14:11:45 GMT
Organization: University of Iowa, Iowa City, IA, USA

From article <1992Aug15.213949.19761@news.Hawaii.Edu>, by rigler@galileo.ifa.hawaii.edu (Michael A. Rigler):
> (Steven Hodas) writes:
> 
> I am experiencing a similar phenomena after only 2 months on 1050mgs/day
> of DMAE Bitartrate (Source Naturals).  I no longer have the continual
> clarity, and I feel like I need 8 hours of sleep again.
> 

I'm a 230 LB Adult and I got results with < 1/2G a day of DMAE.  Do you
think maybe a gram a day is a little excessive?
Newsgroups: alt.psychoactives
From: schludermann@sscvx1.ssc.gov
Subject: Transporting Nootropics from Mexico?
Organization: Superconducting Super Collider Laboratory
Date: Wed, 12 Aug 1992 23:43:06 GMT

Can anyone inform me of the possible legal ramifications of buying over
the counter nootropics in Mexico and bringing them back to Texas?
Newsgroups: alt.psychoactives,alt.drugs,sci.med
From: ibarrett@casper.cs.uct.ac.za (I G Barrett)
Subject: WANTED Information on Smart Drugs
Keywords: Smart Drugs Books Mail Order
Organization: Computer Science Department, University of Cape Town
Date: Wed, 12 Aug 1992 21:52:02 GMT

Smart Drugs have not, as yet, become popular in South Africa so very few people
have heard of the Drugs/Nutrients and they are, therefore, hard to obtain.  Are
there any mail order sources for Smart Drugs and Books on the subject in the
USA, Europe, UK or elsewhere?  I'm told there would be no problem with my 
purchasing them from overseas for personal use.

How does Nootropil(Piracetam) rate as a Smart Drug?  It is quite expensive here
and I'm wondering whether it is worth the expense.

Swan
ibarrett@casper.cs.uct.ac.za
brrian04@uctvax.uct.ac.za
From: jaffray@sunkist.berkeley.edu (Alan Jaffray)
Newsgroups: alt.psychoactives
Subject: Re: The purpose of this group?
Date: 14 Aug 1992 17:44:57 GMT
Organization: U.C. Berkeley Math. Department.
NNTP-Posting-Host: sunkist.berkeley.edu

In article <1992Aug13.221458.7794@midway.uchicago.edu> gal2@midway.uchicago.edu writes:
>
>Pardon me, but this group seems redundant, what with alt.drugs around.

Well, some of us don't feel like wading through hundreds of posts about
MJ, LSD, politics, etc. per day... :-)

>Aren't all recreational drugs psychoactive?

The definition out of Webster's seems to be appropriate: 
"Affecting the mind or behavior".  By that definition (which seems overly
general, but maybe that is necessary), the answer is yes.

>Is this group also about
>nondrug psychoactives, 'cause I haven't seen anything of that nature
>here in the few months I've been reading.

Really?  You haven't seen the ginkgo biloba posts, for instance?

>Are smart drugs psychoactive?

Yes.

>Is 'psychoactive' just being used as a euphamism or to make people here
>sound more sophisticated?

From what I've seen, it's being used as a euphemism to avoid all the 
nasty side-associations linked to the term "drug".  DMAE, for instance, is
a "nutritional supplement" according to the label.  Lots of people seem to
think that "drug" implies either addiction potential, or that the substance
in question is harsh in some way or has bad side effects.

HOWEVER, I don't think we should be too concerned with the name of the 
group.  It seems clear (no?) that the purpose of the group is to discuss
methods of cognitive enhancement -- improving alertness, memory, intelligence, 
and so on.  Since this is distinct from the purpose of alt.drugs, it's a
useful group.  Maybe it should be called alt.cognitive.enhancement, but
is it that big a deal?

-- Alan
From: barton@latcs1.lat.OZ.AU (Douglas P Barton)
Newsgroups: alt.psychoactives
Subject: Re: DMAE stops working
Date: 18 Aug 92 02:42:10 GMT
Organization: What ORGANISATION???  This mess is total chaos!!!

In article <1992Aug17.222105.12848@news.Hawaii.Edu>, rigler@galileo.ifa.hawaii.edu (Michael A. Rigler) writes:
|> (Kent Williams) writes:
|> (Michael A. Rigler):
|> Unfortunately, it stopped working after two months, so I've quit
|> taking it entirely.  I'll just have to endure this next month without
|> it.  Fortunately I've got a head start: after two months spent taking 
|> DMAE instead of guzzling cups of black coffee, I feel great!
|> 
|> 					Can't wait to graduate,
|> 					        Mike
|> 
|> --
|> Rigler            "If what you say about Mr Carasso is true then maybe the 
|>                    Shiah should put a death sentence on him (half joking) 
|>                    and leave Salman Rusdie alone."        -- Colin Dawkins


Since you ceased taking DMAE, have you thought of trying it again to see
whether the reduction in effect was due to a temporary tolerance within the
body or a permanent one?  Anyone out there care to hazzard a guess as to
which of these might be the case?

Just my 0.02 sheckles worth...

-- 

Douglas Barton - barton@latcs1.oz.au
		"My ,son.  Take for thyself another world,
 		 for that which I leave thee is too small..."
Newsgroups: alt.psychoactives
From: ladasky@netcom.com (John J. Ladasky II)
Subject: Re: Arginine pyroglutamate sources?
Date: Sat, 15 Aug 92 08:46:50 GMT
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services (408 241-9760 guest)

rteasdal@polyslo.csc.calpoly.edu (Rusty) writes:
>hhll@milton.u.washington.edu (Steven Hodas) writes:
>>rteasdal@polyslo.csc.calpoly.edu (Rusty) writes:
>>
>>
>>>	Does anyone know of a relatively inexpensive source of
>>>arginine pyroglutamate, either over the counter, or by mail?
>>
>>Is there any reason you couldn't just take arginine and pyroglutamate as
>>separate pills? Both are easily available (for now anyway).
>>
>	Well, the combined molecule is better than either one at
>getting across the perennially annoying blood-brain barrier. The
>growth hormone release of the arginine and the cognitive boost of
>the pyroglutamate are correspondingly enhanced by this, as is the
>persistence of the compound in the body. Note: I'm following up on
>a lead about availability. I will post when I know more...
>

	Trust me: you are very, very happy to have a blood-brain barrier.
If you did not, every time you ate some neurotransmitter-rich foods (e.g.,
any animal products), you would have a major spasm attack.

	The arginine and the pyroglutamate are simple present in stoichio-
metric amounts in arginine pyroglutamate.  In other words, they are pre-
cipitated as an organic salt.  There is no covalent bond between the two
compounds.  Therefore, taking an arginine supplement and a pyroglutamate
supplement will have the same effect.

	Xanthinol nicotinate is another compound which consists of two 
separate components in a salt precipitate.  Twinlabs' DMAE-H3 is a solution
containing the alkaline DMAE, and the acidic PABA - again, presumably, to
get stuff across the blood-brain barrier.

	BTW, are you supposed to take arginine pyroglutamate on an empty
stomach?  Unless there are compounds in the food you eat which inhibit the
uptake of either arginine or pyroglutamate, I see no reason why you couldn't
just take one or the other with a meal.  There are tons of charged organic
compounds in the food you eat that could complement with arginine or 
pyroglutamate to help them across the blood-brain barrier.

-- 
=============================================================================
 John J. Ladasky II ("ii")				(ladasky@netcom.COM)

	"Great composers do not borrow - they steal."  - Igor Stravinsky

	(Actually, Picasso said it first, in reference to painting - but
		   Stravinsky has claimed it as his own! :^)

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
	      Disclaimer : My employer?  Internet?  Yeah, right!
=============================================================================
Newsgroups: alt.psychoactives
From: gerry@pizzabox.dialogic.com (Gerry Lachac)
Subject: Re: DMAE as "poison"
Organization: Dialogic Corporation
Date: Tue, 18 Aug 92 15:26:32 GMT

In article <q38NPB9w165w@infopls.chi.il.us> zane@infopls.chi.il.us (Sameer Parekh) writes:
>        My father read this one article i_Time_ about how Smart Drugs wre 
>bogus and all that. Anyway, upon reading the bit about DMAE, he said that 
>it was "poison" and the people using it are idiots. (He's an organic 
>chemist who works on coatings for beer cans and the like.) What reason 
>would he have to say this? I don't see alt.psychoactive'rs dropping from 
>"poison."


Ah, the penultimate reference _Time Magazine_. That's a magazine I
would rely on for medical facts. I bet they thought "Reefer Madness"
was fact-filled too.  This is not a flame, but I just want to point
out that one should not believe everything one reads.  It is
definitely not "politically correct" at this time to support any type
of drug use.




Newsgroups: alt.psychoactives
From: billc@col.hp.com (Bill Claussen)
Subject: Re: The purpose of this group?
Date: Fri, 14 Aug 1992 19:42:15 GMT
Organization: HP Colorado Springs Division

It was my impression that this group was started to discuss
prescription type psychoactive drugs....not recreational
drugs.  The whole problem seemed to be that a person had
to wade through 99% of the stuff on alt.drugs to find 
anything about prescription drugs.

It was my understanding that this group would be discussing
drugs such as:  Prozac, Imiprimine, Anafrinal, Wellbutrin,
etc.......drugs used in the treatment of certain illnesses.

General talk would be of the nature of doses, overdoses,
side effects, what works for some people and not for others,
etc.

I thought that the whole purpose of this group was that it
was NOT going to discuss recreational drugs.

I could be wrong though.

Bill Claussen

From: Douglas.Hill@f438.n109.z1.fidonet.org (Douglas Hill)
Sender: Uucp@blkcat.UUCP
Newsgroups: alt.psychoactives
Subject: WANTED Information on Smart Drugs
Date: Mon, 17 Aug 1992 23:39:00 -0500

 IGB> Smart Drugs have not, as yet, become popular in South 
 IGB> Africa so very few people
 IGB> have heard of the Drugs/Nutrients and they are, 
 IGB> therefore, hard to obtain.  Are
 IGB> there any mail order sources for Smart Drugs and Books 
 IGB> on the subject in the
 IGB> USA, Europe, UK or elsewhere?  I'm told there would be 
 IGB> no problem with my 

You might look for "Smart Drugs & Nutrients" by Dr. Ward Dean, MD.
ISBN 0-9627418-9-2.

- Doug



Newsgroups: alt.psychoactives
From: dcborean@undergrad.math.waterloo.edu (David Borean)
Subject: Re: The purpose of this group?
Organization: University of Waterloo
Date: Sat, 15 Aug 1992 11:24:42 GMT

This gruop deals with all sorts of psychoactive chemicals.  Alt.drugs is a
less in depth newsgroups covering a whole range of drugs and experiences
with drugs.  This group deals more chemically than alt.drugs and also
zeros in on nootropic chemicals and their roles.  debating whether or not
they're any good or not.   

Most recreational drugs are psychoactive, but we don't deal only with
recreational drugs here.  We deal with anti-depressent drugs which most
people don't use as recreational.  MAOI's and how they work..  As I said,
very chemically oriented.

Anyhow, this newsgroup isn't redundant, I like it better than alt.drugs
because the information is more succinct. In alt.drugs there is a lot
of just talking, here it's more direct and to the point.

Anyhow, enough.. I like it, so that means it's good enough.. :-)
From: SCHOLAR@MEENA.CC.UREGINA.CA
Newsgroups: alt.psychoactives
Subject: Re: DMAE
Date: 21 Aug 92 08:18:00 GMT


 
Cathy W. writes:
>[...] I'm interested in the potential of this DMAE stuff.  I'm an engineer &
>had always been sharp, quick, and alert up until about a year ago.
>I don't think work has been hectic enough for me to be suffering a
>burn-out, but I can't seem to concentrate on my reading & work and am
>accomplishing nearly nothing these days.
 
I was reading a medical book on depression the other day when I came accross
a reference to DMAE.  Apparently DMAE (and other cholinergenic drugs) can 
cause people who've had clinical depression to relapse and has been known to
trigger depression in those who've never had it.  I know from experience that
a clinical depression can be crippling, so I'm not sure that I can consider
DMAE a safe drug.  If your problems are the symptoms of the beggining of a
depression DMAE might be a disaster for you.  Unfortunatly the book didn't say
anything about how risky this stuff is, so the best advice I can give is that
if you or any of your close relatives have ever had a depression, then IMHO
trying DMAE is not worth the risk.

An older book (on drugs that don't work) said that DMAE, under the name Deaner,
used to be available in the U.S. as antidepressant (of all things!) and for 
children with 'attention deficit disorder'.   The only explanation I can think
of for this is that they used to consider amphetamines antidepressants and must
have 'reasoned' that any drug with any properties in common with amphetamines 
must also be good for depression.  Ditto with 'attention deficit disorder'.

			Joshua Scholar (scholar@meena.cc.uregina.ca)
Newsgroups: alt.psychoactives,alt.drugs
From: dyer@spdcc.com (Steve Dyer)
Subject: Re: DMAE
Followup-To: alt.psychoactives
Organization: S.P. Dyer Computer Consulting, Cambridge MA
Date: Sat, 22 Aug 1992 21:17:22 GMT

In article <1992Aug22.202306.15913@adobe.com> yost@adobe.com (David Yost) writes:
>>An older book (on drugs that don't work) said that DMAE, under the name Deaner
>Please give us the details on that book.  Sounds interesting, especially
>since things tend to come around more than once, and information about
>why it failed last time around is useful.

Prior to 1960 or so, drug firms didn't need to demonstrate efficacy,
only safety, in the conditions for which a drug was marketed.  When
the FDA standards were tightened, existing drugs were grandfathered for
a while (a LONG while, almost 20 years).  Over time, these drugs were
reevaluated, being classified as "ineffective", "possibly effective",
and "effective".  "Possibly effective" drugs required additional studies
to be submitted to the FDA for reclassification as effecive or ineffective.
"Ineffective" drugs were ultimately removed from the market.

Deaner (deanol acetamidobenzoate, the N-acetyl-PABA salt of DMAE) was
promoted for use in hyperactivity (a syndrome now called ADD--attention-
deficit disorder) and depression, on the theory that the drug was a
stimulant of some sort.  You really can't even begin to understand the
looseness and casualness of drug studies back then.  There were few
(usually no) controls and poor experimental design.  It really was possible
to conclude just about anything you would like to about a substance,
and since this wasn't a criterion for FDA approval, they didn't get
much scrutiny for problems in design.  Indeed, the entire push towards
greater rigorousness to weed out improper conclusions only started in
the 1960s.

The drug "failed" and was ultimately withdrawn from the market because the
drug company was unable to demonstrate efficacy in the conditions it wished
to sell the drug for.  Note that this isn't quite the same as saying that
DMAE is inert and exerts NO pharmacological effect on the human body.  However
it was not shown to be effective in either of these syndromes (i.e., it was
no different than a placebo and demonstrably inferior to drugs with known
efficacy in these situations.)  Which is another reason Deaner/DMAE was
banished to the scrapheap of the pharmacopoeia--there were other drugs, which
unlike it, worked well and were quite effective.

Of course, these days, DMAE is being pushed for a much more diffuse purpose
(as a "smart drug"/nootropic), a category in which it is harder to demonstrate
or even define efficacy.

-- 
Steve Dyer
dyer@ursa-major.spdcc.com aka {ima,harvard,rayssd,linus,m2c}!spdcc!dyer
Newsgroups: alt.psychoactives
From: hhll@milton.u.washington.edu (Steven Hodas)
Subject: Re: DMAE stops working
Organization: University of Washington
Date: Mon, 17 Aug 1992 18:50:39 GMT

williams@herky.cs.uiowa.edu (Kent Williams) writes:

>I'm a 230 LB Adult and I got results with < 1/2G a day of DMAE.  Do you
>think maybe a gram a day is a little excessive?


I don't think this stuff is terribly mass-dependent. At 180 lbs I was
never able to get results with less than 700mg/day. Also, I'm taking the
bitartrate, which is only 1/3 DMAE. Maybe your stuff is straight.


Steven
Newsgroups: alt.psychoactives
Subject: Arginine pyroglutamate found!
From: rteasdal@polyslo.csc.calpoly.edu (Rusty)
Date: Mon, 17 Aug 92 18:17:39 GMT
Organization: Cal Poly San Luis Obispo, CSc Department


	Well, as it turns out, Bricker Labs is still manufacturing
their Pyro-Power arginine pyroglutamate product. I dug up their 800
number and rang them last week, and they shipped the next day. It's
a pity that this competent service wasn't reciprocated by UPS, which
came by, found me not in, and left the package sitting on the doorstep,
where it stayed, in the hot sun, for two days! Fortunately, AP is not
readily vulnerable to heat damage. A lot of other things might have
lost their potency after such treatment.

	For those of you who are interested, Bricker's toll-free
number is 1-800-952-9568. The Pyro-Power tablets go for $23.00 for
90 tablets or $42.00 for 180, plus appropriate shipping and handling
and California sales tax, where necessary. 

	They also sent me a very interesting catalog. I'll have to
consider experimenting with some of their other supplements...




-- 
||||||||   Russ Teasdale -- rteasdal@polyslo.CalPoly.EDU  --  (Rusty)  ||||||||
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Gentlemen, if we do not succeed, then we run the risk of failure." - D. Quayle

Newsgroups: alt.psychoactives
From: rigler@galileo.ifa.hawaii.edu (Michael A. Rigler)
Subject: Re: DMAE stops working
Organization: IFA
Date: Sat, 15 Aug 1992 21:39:49 GMT

(Steven Hodas) writes:
>>After several happy months on 700-1050 mgs/day of DMAE Bitartrate (SOurce
>>Naturals) it's effects seem to be wearing off. I no longer have that
>>continual clarity buzz or have things right at hand.
>>
>>Has anyone else expereinced this? I tried upping the dosage but it didn't
>>help. Should I try lowering the dosage? I miss my DMAE-head.
>>
>>Steven

I am experiencing a similar phenomena after only 2 months on 1050mgs/day
of DMAE Bitartrate (Source Naturals).  I no longer have the continual
clarity, and I feel like I need 8 hours of sleep again.

What a bummer.  I still have one month's work to complete for my dissert-
ation.  *sigh*  I guess it's back to pots of black coffee...

Mike

--
Newsgroups: alt.psychoactives
From: gal2@ellis.uchicago.edu (Jacob Galley)
Subject: The purpose of this group?
Reply-To: gal2@midway.uchicago.edu
Organization: University of Chicago Computing Organizations
Date: Thu, 13 Aug 1992 22:14:58 GMT


Pardon me, but this group seems redundant, what with alt.drugs around.
Aren't all recreational drugs psychoactive? Is this group also about
nondrug psychoactives, 'cause I haven't seen anything of that nature
here in the few months I've been reading. Are smart drugs psychoactive?
Is 'psychoactive' just being used as a euphamism or to make people here
sound more sophisticated?

(I'm not trying to be abusive, just direct.)

Jake.
-- 
Reinheitsgebot <-- "Keep your laws off my beer!" <-- gal2@midway.uchicago.edu
Newsgroups: alt.psychoactives
From: wizz@bnr.ca (Boris Volk)
Subject: Effectiveness of memory enhancing drugs
Reply-To: wizz@bnr.ca (Boris Volk)
Organization: Bell-Northern Research Ltd.
Date: Thu, 20 Aug 92 16:04:26 GMT

 I have heard of the existance of drugs/nutrients that can enhance short-term
memory. I would like any feedback from fellow members of the net. I think that
there is significant interest for information such as;

	- effectiveness
	- availability
	- sources
	- side effects

 Any info would be greatly appreciated

  Boris Volk (at least that's what it says on my driver's licence)
From: yost@adobe.com (David Yost)
Newsgroups: alt.psychoactives
Subject: Re: DMAE
Date: 22 Aug 92 20:23:06 GMT
Organization: Adobe Systems Incorporated

In article <01GNTS4182E89JD9S6@Meena.CC.URegina.CA> SCHOLAR@MEENA.CC.UREGINA.CA writes:
>An older book (on drugs that don't work) said that DMAE, under the name Deaner,

Please give us the details on that book.  Sounds interesting, especially
since things tend to come around more than once, and information about
why it failed last time around is useful.

 --dave yost