HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.deaf-l
Date:         Thu, 3 Sep 1992 16:15:00 GMT
From:         TIM_JOHNSON <TIM+_JOHNSON%DIALOG@MCIMAIL.COM>
Subject:      Re: questions, a few, have i.

>I've seen three signs used to mean "sex", which I will gloss as follows:
>
>#SEX: fingerspelled S-E-X, except the hand isn't in the standard
>      position for spelling.
>
>SEX:  the index finger of the "X" handshape traces a vertical line
>      down the cheek.
>
... rest of message deleted to save space ...


Seth's message made me think of the sign I was just taught a few nights
ago for "safe sex" (or "safer sex").  The sign is the same as Seth
described, except the "X" handshape is drawn against the cheek twice.
I don't know how widespread this sign is outside of the San Francisco
bay area though.

Tim

***********************************************************************
Tim Johnson / Dialog Information Services / Palo Alto CA  94304  USA
              INTERNET:  johnson%dialog@mcimail.com
              MCIMAIL:   EMS:DIALOG  MBX:JOHNSON
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Date:         Tue, 1 Sep 1992 22:56:25 -0600
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Date:         Thu, 3 Sep 1992 11:10:09 EDT
From:         "Joseph P. Riolo" <riolo@COR4.PICA.ARMY.MIL>
Subject: Re: questions, a few, have i.
X-To:         DEAF LIST <DEAF-L%SIUCVMB.BITNET@pucc.princeton.edu>
X-cc:         riolo@PICA.ARMY.MIL

Heather,

>	I learned ASL here in Cleveland, and our instructor was
>very careful to explain that 'Akron' looked a LOT like 'sex' and
>to be careful to sign them properly. :) I forget which is which,
>but I believe 'sex' is a smooth movement from cheek to chin (like 'girl')
>and 'Akron' is more like "touch-touch" (Touch cheek-touch near chin).
>Or it could be the other way around. But I do remember those are the two
>signs and both use the 'X' handshape.

        What you said seems to be true.  I use the smooth movement for
the "sex".  Let's ask Esther.  Esther, can you still recall enough to
decide which is which?

        Intriguing...

                                        Joseph P. Riolo
                                        <riolo@pica.army.mil>
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From: garvey@skybridge.SCL.CWRU.Edu (Heather Garvey)
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.deaf-l
Subject: Re: questions, a few, have i.
Date: 3 Sep 1992 13:16:40 GMT
Organization: Smith Undergrad Lab, CWRU, Cleve. OH
NNTP-Posting-Host: colima.scl.cwru.edu
X-Post-Machine: colima.scl.cwru.edu

"Esther A. Paris" <esther@SSD.RAY.COM> writes:
>Hi Joseph... Good points you raised.  You're right, it could have
>been an 'a' handshape... Maybe my fevered (lack of sleep, stress,
>food and water other than I'm accustomed to, difficult flights on
>the plane, lost luggage, etc) brain mistook the signs.  But it
>sure seemed to me that both AKRON and SEX used the X hand.  SEX
>(when it appeared) seemed to be AKRON-AKRON.    Also, I was
>generally far away from the interpreter and an A and an X would
>be virtually indistinguishable from the distance I was sitting
>at.  (I was trying to avoid the smokers, to no avail.  Cough cough.
>Wheeze cough gasp.  I have asthma and can't abide cigarette smoke
>but the other 2999 conference attendees didn't seem to care about
>poor little old me and my weak lungs.  Sigh....)
>
>Is there no one from Ohio that can help me out?
>

	I learned ASL here in Cleveland, and our instructor was 
very careful to explain that 'Akron' looked a LOT like 'sex' and
to be careful to sign them properly. :) I forget which is which,
but I believe 'sex' is a smooth movement from cheek to chin (like 'girl')
and 'Akron' is more like "touch-touch" (Touch cheek-touch near chin).
Or it could be the other way around. But I do remember those are the two
signs and both use the 'X' handshape.

--
	" ...dealing with Free-Net makes me very angry  | Heather "Moose"
and gives me thoughts of breaking things and torturing  | Garvey, Biochem 93'
small animals. "   --  Bruce Ikenaga <bxi@po.cwru.edu>  | <hlg@po.cwru.edu>
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Newsgroups: bit.listserv.deaf-l
Date:         Sat, 29 Aug 1992 06:06:16 EDT
From:         -- <sipb7@ATHENA.MIT.EDU>
Subject:      Re: Work Interaction
X-To:         DEAF LIST <DEAF-L%SIUCVMB.BITNET@uga.cc.uga.edu>
              21 Aug 92 13:39:00 -0500. <9208211842.AA20026@Athena.MIT.EDU>

    Annette says:
    I've been on the List about five months & haven't read any discussions
    of how everyone (it applies to) gets along socially at work with
    co-workers...

I am the only hearing person on TLC's weekday residential staff.  Last
fall, I sat through a number of department meetings (and one--ugh--
camping trip) conducted entirely in ASL, with no voice interpreter.
It was not fun.

(Go on, admit it.  You're glad the tables are turned.  :-)

My ASL is improving, but I still can't participate in group
discussions very well; it's like there's a "pipeline" in my brain, so
by the time I understand someone's comment, or realize that I *don't*
understand something, it's too late for me to say anything, the topic
has drifted.  (Or I say to myself: "My God!  I understand what they're
saying!" and distract myself, and lose the thread of the conversation
again.  :-)  I try to deal with this by asking a co-worker, 1:1, what
happened at a given meeting.

--
::: A fundamentalist preacher who can't read Hebrew deserves as much  :::
::: attention as a heart surgeon who has never handled a stethoscope. :::
seth gordon  <sipb7@athena.mit.edu>   . . . these opinions for rent
the learning center for deaf children . . . associate teacher-counselor
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Newsgroups: bit.listserv.deaf-l
Date:         Fri, 28 Aug 1992 11:15:20 -0700
From:         Jim Carnahan <ehs@SFSUVAX1.SFSU.EDU>
Subject:      School is starting...
X-To:         DEAF-L%SIUCVMB.BITNET@pucc.princeton.edu

Hello DEAF-L members.  I hope I do not disappoint anyone - this message
is not about bashing anyone or any governmental organization...

Wednesday was the first day of class for my ASL III class at Vista
Community College in Berkeley, CA.  It was a blast; I am very excited
about this semester.  During the class, our instructor introduced a
Japonese Deaf woman to us.  She is visiting to U.S. for one month to
learn techniques for teaching signed language.  She is staying with my
teacher who is Deaf.

Since her first language is Japonese Sign Language (JSL), I was amazed to
find out how quickly she is learning ASL.  After three
weeks she is able to carry on a conversation.  (I won't say how many
YEARS it's taken me to get beyond the "Hello my name is..." level.)
It was also really neat to learn a few JSL signs.  Some are completely
different; others are surprisingly similar to ASL.

What's really exciting is that she is going to teach my teacher JSL
tomorrow in a "crash course".  My teacher is doing this to try to
understand what it's like for a hearing person to learn a signed
language so she can teach ASL more effectively.

Anyway, it looks like it's going to be an exciting semester despite some
drastic budget cuts here in California...


Jim Carnahan
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Return-Path: <adler@a1.mscf.upenn.edu>
Msg-Class: ALL-IN-1 V2.3 BL8-4 Rev. AAC 20-Dec-1988
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.deaf-l
Date:         Thu, 3 Sep 1992 14:28:01 -0400
From:         Henry Adler <adler@A1.MSCF.UPENN.EDU>
Subject:      re: tongue shape

The letter "y" can sound like a vowel, but it is still a consonant.
(Just looking for fun...)

Henry

adler@mscf.med.penn.edu
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Newsgroups: bit.listserv.deaf-l
Date:         Mon, 31 Aug 1992 09:20:11 EDT
From:         "Esther A. Paris" <esther@DEMAND.ED.RAY.COM>
Subject:      questions, a few, have i.

Hi there!  Had a wonderful trip to Cleveland, but got almost NO SLEEP
in the four days I was there.  I worked on a committee and had no
idea when I joined the committee how much work it would be at the
conference itself.  Sigh... Ah well.  It was still worth the trip despite
the exhaustion and a few other things I complained about while I was
there.  But I won't bore you with that...

Anyway, since I was in Cleveland, the word "AKRON" (as in Akron, Ohio)
came up a number of times in people's speeches.  I was watching the
ASL interpreters the whole time.  Now, I could be wrong, but it seemed
to me that the ASL word I gloss into English as "SEX" appeared waaaay
too frequently in the ASL interpretations.  I finally realized that the
name sign for the city of Akron looks a lot like the word I interpret
back into English to mean SEX.  The few times the English word SEX appeared
in a presenter's talk (very rare), it seemed as if the ASL word used to
correspond was AKRON twice.  So, in short (and to appear apologetically as
somewhat Englishocentric because that's the language I think in), the word
AKRON looked like the word SEX to me, and the word SEX looked like an
inflected word AKRON to me.

Anyone from Ohio, or Wisconsin or New York or Pennsylvania or Kentucky
or Illinois, here on this list?  Do you use a name sign for the city of
Akron?  Does it look a lot like the word SEX?  (Keep in mind that I'm
from the Boston area, so the word AKRON appears in my thoughts about
once every ten years.  Apologies to anyone who's offended.  Let's say
that the word AKRON appears in my thoughts about as often as the capital
of my state (Providence, RI) appears in your thoughts.)

If so, does anyone have an etymology for the sign?  The only theory I've
encountered is R-rated and involves such industries as that which the
Seiberling family is involved in.

Second question:  what sign language do people in Portugal use?

Third question: what sign language do people in Cambodia use?

Fourth question: is the sign language used in Portugal close enough to
   any other sign language to be comprehensible if the viewer had to
   view an interpreter using another language?

Fifth question: is the sign language used in Cambodia close enough to
   any other sign language to be comprehensible if the viewer had to
   view an interpreter using another language?

(Regarding the 4th and 5th questions, I have received the impression from
our dear list subscriber M.C. from Montreal that QSL and ASL are close
enough that she could watch and ASL interpreter and survive, if no other
interpreter were available.  M., please forgive me for not knowing how
to spell your name!  And please correct me if I'm mistaken on the impression
I've got in my head.)

All input welcome!

Esther Paris, Raytheon EDL, Marlborough, MA
esther@demand.ed.ray.com
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Newsgroups: bit.listserv.deaf-l
Date:         Wed, 2 Sep 1992 12:04:23 BST
From:         Bosco Keown <KEOWN@WINVMC.VNET.IBM.COM>
Subject:      personal bio
X-To:         DEAF-L%SIUCVMB.BITNET@pucc.Princeton.EDU

Ref:  Your note of Wed, 2 Sep 1992 11:54:00 BST

Hi, Martin. Welcome to the list.

Can you describe your project in a little more detail? It
sounds to me a bit like electropalatography. How are you
following the tongue movements? With an EPG palate?
I remember seeing an EPG system which was developed by
Reading University in collaboration with the IBM UK Scientific
Centre in Winchester. I don't know what happened to it, or
whether the technology is in more widespread use.

Regards, Bosco.

John Bosco Keown,
IBM UK Laboratories, Ltd., Hursley Park, Winchester, England.,
Internet: keown@winvmc.vnet.ibm.com
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Via: uk.ac.ulster.upvax; Wed, 2 Sep 1992 13:35:20 +0100
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.deaf-l
Date:         Wed, 2 Sep 1992 13:38:00 BST
From:         DDBT23@UPVAX.ULSTER.AC.UK
Subject:      Tilak, your contact
X-To:         DEAF-L <DEAF-L@SIUCVMB.SIU.EDU>

Hiya Tilak,

	Thanks for the message. I would appreciate it if you could put me in
touch with that contact of yours by email (I hate letter writing for some
unknown reason).

	By the way, I am posting this to the deaf list because I can't post
to you directly from here (urgh!). The sysops here are VERY paranoid!

	Is this ok? Is this a way in which I can post to the whole deaf list?
Forgive me - I am new to the idea of posting to listservers on bitnet.

	Thanks in advance :-)

	Regards,

	Martin Powderly

	ddbt23@upvax.ulster.ac.uk
	
	"Like think it twice, but never, never learn"
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Newsgroups: bit.listserv.deaf-l
Date:         Fri, 4 Sep 1992 14:31:17 EDT
From:         Annie Senghas <annie@PSYCHE.MIT.EDU>
Subject:      headers and responses

I'd like to get current for a moment, and process our process.

I can appreciate that, for many people, it is more practical to
sit down and answer a month's worth of Deaf-L email at once.  But
I get a little frustrated reading comments on a topic that has
since moved along.  Often new comments are totally redundant with
posts that were posted over a week earlier.  Or they are insensitive
to objections people have raised since the original post.

Rather than just progressing through your mail, answering each post as
you come to it, could people please either:

a) Before you respond to a post, please look ahead at the headers of
the posts you haven't read yet.  Do any of them match the post you are
about to respond to?  If so, please read them first, before you
respond.  That is, read everybody else's responses to that post.

b) Read through all of your mail once, and then go back and respond to
the ones you want to contribute your own ideas to.

I guess for some people, new at navigating around their virtual
mailboxes, this might be too difficult.  If the complication of
looking ahead might prevent you from posting, by all means post the
best you can.  But people who post frequently should learn to put mail
aside, read through mail twice, or look ahead at other headers.
Whatever your system permits.  This should greatly reduce the number
of these frustrating posts.

Of course, for this to work, people have to use relevant headers.  If
you are responding to a post on its main topic, use the SAME header.
If you are shifting the topic, or introducing a new topic, use a NEW
header.  (Actually, for the most part, people are good about this.  It
can be tricky when a topic gradually shifts.)

Thanks, folks!  Back to our virtual worlds!

-Annie

ps.  To get really process picky-- the current writer should write at
the left margin.  Previous posts, that you cite, should be indented a
little, preferably with a > at the beginning of each line.  That way
we can tell who is responding to whom.  When the new RESPONSE is
indented, it gets confusing.

And if you can edit at all, please include only the portion of a post
that you are commenting on.  I get annoyed when my disk quota gets
filled because my mailbox is stuffed with entries such as four screens
of a post that I have read already followed by "I agree!" or a
three-line comment.  That is what headers are for.

Sorry if this is sounding flamey.  I realize some people are new to
all of these conventions.  When they are used consistently, it does
make the list run more smoothly and more enjoyably.

-A
(annie@psyche.mit.edu)

or, the vowel-free version: (nn@psch.mt.d)
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Newsgroups: bit.listserv.deaf-l
Date:         Sun, 30 Aug 1992 04:03:24 -0400
From:         Miriam Clifford <DMIMI@ECSVAX.BITNET>
Subject:      Re: Progress

Don't know who  the post from athena.MIT.EDU that said "Someday, you may
apply to one of them for a job.  Let the flamer beware" but it was certainly
difficult to understand.  Which flamer about which topic?  The subject
(Re: Progress) didn't help much either.  But the message that got to me
was, "my gosh, he's threatening us!"  Shades of Nazi Germany.  Now we can't
express an opinion about something (or even someone) without being
threatened with violence?  I'm not so unrealistic that I don't realize that
many do threaten and/or use violence to get their way, but I didn't expect
it among the intelligent and usually well educated net users.  From MIT.EDU
yet!
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Newsgroups: bit.listserv.deaf-l
Date:         Tue, 1 Sep 1992 23:40:53 EDT
From:         "Dave Windley, Data Comm Specialist X799" <AADW@CATCC.BITNET>
Subject:      Realizations: good/bad

Lisamarie writes:

> A lot has changed since then, thank God!  I guess you grow up a lot in 9
> years.  The thought of total deafness doesn't mortify me anymore, and I
> spend a lot of time trying to help my friends and people I meet understand
> that it isn't as wretched as they think!  I also believe that a lot of the
> feelings hearing people have towards deafness stems from having absolutely
> no contact with deaf people, much less Deaf people!  I know that for myself
> I needed to get to know other deaf people before I felt that I was okay
> just the way I was....and that I wasn't a hearing person with a set of
> broken ears.

      Wouldn't it be nice if more Hearing parents of deaf children
      were able to understand your perspective.  I guess sometimes
      you really have to live the experience to understand it.
      Treatment of deaf children would be so much improved.

      I sometimes wish that some deaf people I meet would have that
      same realization that you did and be proud of themselves
      instead of struggling with identity.  But then, I don't want
      to be a hypocryte; I sometimes wish I could be more proud and
      confident with my identity too.
======================================================================
   Dave Windley,                       Catonsville Community College
      Data Communications Specialist          800 South Rolling Road
      Sign Interpreter                     CATONSVILLE MD 21228-9987
      GLBO Co-Founder                          Voice: (410) 455-4799
      ITR Club Vice President                             AADW@CATCC
======================================================================
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Newsgroups: bit.listserv.deaf-l
Date:         Wed, 2 Sep 1992 13:56:10 BST
From:         Bosco Keown <KEOWN@WINVMC.VNET.IBM.COM>
Subject:      personal bio (revamped)
X-To:         DEAF-L%SIUCVMB.BITNET@pucc.Princeton.EDU

Ref:  Your note of Wed, 2 Sep 1992 13:31:00 BST

Interesting work, that. One thing beats me -- how do
you reconstruct actual tongue shape/position information
from the speech signal alone?????

Bosco.

John Bosco Keown,
IBM UK Laboratories, Ltd., Hursley Park, Winchester, England.,
Internet: keown@winvmc.vnet.ibm.com
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X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.3 PL0]
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.deaf-l
Date:         Wed, 2 Sep 1992 11:19:28 JST
From:         KAERI Kim YongChe <yckim@SORAK.KAIST.AC.KR>
Subject:      Re: KOREA

 Mimi,

 Actually, I don't know the exact definition of a 'tonal'
 language. However, I said YES without much thought to Seth's
 question "If so, is Korean a 'tonal' language, like Chinese,
 Japanese, and Vietnamese?", because I know Japanese. Roughly
 speaking, Korean and Japanese are as similar as English and
 German. For that matter I thought English and German are tonal
 languages, too. Now you say English is *not basically* tonal. I
 am confused.

 Yes, we have Korean Sign Language. I am not good at it. As far
 as I know, tone doesn't seem to play any role in Korean Sign
 Language. I only heard from friends that they don't have much
 difficulty in understanding each other with Chinese, Japanese,
 and Korean Sign Languages. They are surely not the same.

 Hope this is of some help.

 Yong Che  <yckim@sorak.kaist.ac.kr>
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Date:         Fri, 4 Sep 1992 10:16:14 -0600
From:         The Shadow <THESHADO@CORRAL.UWYO.EDU>
Subject: Re: questions, a few, have i.

>        What you said seems to be true.  I use the smooth movement for
>the "sex".


Hmmm...In this area (Southeastern Wyoming), I've seen two different signs
used for the generic term of "sex."  One is the smooth movement of an X-hand
on the cheek, like the movement for girl.  The other is a fingerspelled version
that strikes me as being linguistically the same as "job."  i.e. one flows
smoothly from the 's' to the 'x', skipping the e.  The Right and Left V-hand
palms up and down banging eachother sign is indicative of intercourse, but
not a generic "sex."


Kirk Haines
theshado@outlaw.uwyo.edu
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Newsgroups: bit.listserv.deaf-l
Date:         Thu, 3 Sep 1992 10:29:22 -0400
From:         Miriam Clifford <DMIMI@ECSVAX.BITNET>
Subject:      Re: Progress

Well, I might hire you, even if I heard you being critical of some idea or
point of view or behavior.  I think that our society suffers badly from a
gross lack of whistle-blowers.  I also think that 'bosses' and administrators
often get themselves and their companies into great difficulty by not paying
attention to the criticisms and ideas of their emplyees.  Criticism and
different ideas do not have to be expressed as personal abuse, however.  It
can be directed at the idea.  If the individual who hears every criticism
as being personally directed at him reacts as though he/she was attacked, it
really is his/her problem.  I shouldn't attack you as an individual, but I
can and probably should be willing to attack an idea that I feel (or know,
or believe) is wrong.
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Via: uk.ac.ulster.upvax; Wed, 2 Sep 1992 11:51:34 +0100
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.deaf-l
Date:         Wed, 2 Sep 1992 11:54:00 BST
From:         DDBT23@UPVAX.ULSTER.AC.UK
Subject:      personal bio
X-To:         DEAF-L <DEAF-L@SIUCVMB.SIU.EDU>

NAME:		Martin Powderly
HEARING STATUS: I have full hearing ability
LOCATION:	University of Ulster at Jordanstown,
		Shore Road, Newtownabbey, Co. Antrim
		Northern Ireland.

		Postcode: BT37 OQB

WHY DEAF-L?	I signed up to the DEAF list because I wanted to hear for
		myself the social stigma attached to being deaf. One of my
		relations was found to be deaf after boxing.
		Secondly, I am working in research on producing speech
		training aids for the hearing impaired which help the deaf
		to learn to speak properly when they have speech problems.
		This project entails the display of tongue position, etc
		on a computer screen in real time during utterances.

EMAIL:		ddbt23@upvax.ulster.ac.uk

HOBBIES:	Computers & computer games (when I have the time!), chess,
		frequenting bars (!) and making a niusance or myself. :)

QUESTIONS:	I am new to any lists posted on networks. How I post articles
		for discussion to any group, especially this one?