From: yoichi@carson.u.washington.edu (Yoichi Ii)
Subject: Re: DOES AMERICA SAY YES TO JAPAN?
Organization: University of Washington, Seattle
Date: Mon, 14 Dec 1992 18:34:32 GMT

irvine@uxh.cso.uiuc.edu (Brent Irvine) writes:
>[...] Time and time again it
>has been shown that education does not equate with success in buisiness,
>for one instance, Bill Gates, dropped out of College after 1 semester and
>founded Microsoft.  He is, by all definitions successful, worth $1billion
>by 30, yet quit school.  The superficial analysis would pin him as lazy
>(how can he quit school?  How lazy!), but he built one of the most powerful
>Software companies in the world!  One would be tempted to say he was an 
>exception, until you look at all the enterpeneurs and CEOs of buisinesses,
>and there seems to be a common thread:  they all did poorly in school, and
>most enterpeneurs didn't graduate from college.  

While I agree that "non-scholastic" is not equal to laziness, your example
about Bill Gates etal is not particularly relevant to the discussion. I'm
sure you're not trying to say that education is irrelevant because a few
successful enterpreneurs didn't graduate from college. More likely these
people are special (genius, in their own way) and don't need the "usual"
education. For the masses, however, one needs education.  Bill Gates needs 
educated masses to make and use his products.

>You are totally incorrect in stating that American students are lazy, they
>aren't at all.  The education system, however, does have problems, for
>one, teachers are low-paid.  This is a real problem, as many highly qualified
>potential teachers choose not to teach because there is more $$ elsewhere.
>Second, there is a HUGE disparity between districts in a city:  A city
>school has half the tax base of a county school to work with (or less!), 
>anyone who dismisses this as a 'problem' is stupid or lazy.  Also, in
>many families, parents do not help instill good study habits in their
>children, who, in their formative years, should develop better study
>habits.  

I don't think American schools per se is no worse than in Japan and probably
better in many aspects.  What seems to be making the difference is the
last point you raised: the family.  Family and society in general have to be 
more supportive about education (like they are about sports).

If there is one systemic fault I see in American schools, it's the second point
you made.  It's tempting for me to think the government ought to change 
financing of schools so that such inequity is eliminated.  Ultimately, however,
this leads to a deeper question of whether education is a basic right or
another comodity exchangeable for money. I'd like to think the former, but
what I think doen't matter much. :-)

>Summary:  American Youth are NOT lazy at all, they just don't like school
>much, just like every generation of Americans back to the founding of the
>nation.  There are a whole slew of OTHER problems in schools that need to
>be fixed in some way rather than some nebulous, and incorrect "Those
>students are just lazy."

There seems to be a conflicting elements in your view (or at least it 
seems to me).  One is that Americans not liking schools since the early
days, and the other is that school education requiring more attention (money
for teacher, funding, etc).  There need not be if you modify the first :-)

Bill Gates aside, I think people need more education now a days than in the 
times of the founding fathers.  You simply need more people with specific 
technical, scientific, and other knowledges so that visions of Bill Gates 
and the like can come true.  Dissemination of such knowledges are done most
efficiently through schools. --> American youth better start "liking" 
schools. :-)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.japan,soc.culture.usa,soc.culture.african.american,sci.electronics,misc.consumers,misc.education,misc.entrepreneurs