HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: athos@apple.com (Rick Eames)
Subject: REQUEST: FTP Sites?
Date: Thu, 24 Dec 1992 19:34:29 GMT
Organization: Apple Computer, Inc.
Followup-To: alt.conspiracy.jfk

Rather than spend my money downloading from CIS I was wondering if there is
a good FTP site with JFK related stuff (papers, GIFS, that sort of thing).

******************************************************************************
Rick Eames                               My Opinions Are My Own (not
Apple's)
athos@apple.com
Don't blame me, I didn't vote for Boxer.
******************************************************************************
Newsgroups: alt.conspiracy.jfk
From: jmk@cbnews.cb.att.com (joseph.m.knapp)
Subject: Deep Throat on McLaughlin
Organization: AT&T
Date: Mon, 21 Dec 1992 15:50:04 GMT

Anybody catch Al "Deep Throat" Haig on McLaughlin's show on CNBC last
night? Mclaughlin asked him about his theories about JFK's murder
being ordered by Castro. Haig had no evidence to offer other than
"Bobby Kennedy tried to assassinate Castro several times" (sheesh)
and that "Lyndon Johnson went to his grave believing that Castro was
behind it." McLaughlin then tried to lead him questions like "Wasn't
Kennedy 'obsessed' with Castro" or "didn't Kennedy hate Castro after
what happened at the Bay of Pigs or during the Cuban Missile Crisis?"

Give me a break. Like right-wingers like Haig and McLaughlin had warm
and fuzzy feelings towards Castro back then. I don't trust a thing
Haig says. It's all spin. After the Bay of Pigs, JFK hated something
all right: the CIA and other super-patriotic intelligence operations
who wanted to launch a full-scale invasion. "I'll smash it into a
thousand pieces."

During the interview, Haig remarked that he had "just got back from the
CIA." Oh, what a name-dropper.

---
Joe Knapp   jmk@cbvox.att.com
From: f_gautjw@ccsvax.sfasu.edu
Newsgroups: alt.conspiracy.jfk
Subject: Re: Best Book on JFK Killing
Date: 2 Jan 93 08:34:35 CST
Organization: Stephen F. Austin State University

In article <1htv3oINN2mf@CATHY.NA.CS.YALE.EDU>, yarvin@cs.yale.edu (Norman Yarvin) writes:
> m_henderson@csc32.enet.dec.com (Marty Henderson) writes:
>>
>>
>>I can't put this book down I plan to read it more than once. Prouty is an
>>insider who has great insight into the big picture of things. He concentrates
>>on the "why" rather than the "who" and "how".
> 
> In other words his book is short on details and long on what is really
> speculation but is not honestly presented as such.  Just like his (last?)
> book _The Secret Team_.
[deleted] 
>>His main theme of the book is that we will never know the actual names of
>>those who instigated the plot, carried it out, actually fired the shots, and
>>who have and still do cover it up.
> 
> So he doesn't even claim to know the details.  
         
If you will take time to read the book, you may still have some legitimate
criticisms of Prouty's book, but I doubt they will be the ones mentioned.
Newsgroups: alt.conspiracy.jfk
From: reilley@studio.enet.dec.com (Tom Reilley)
Newsgroups: alt.conspiracy.jfk
Subject: JFK on cable TV.
Date: 26 Dec 92 21:47:47 GMT
Organization: Digital Equipment Corporation



    VCR alert...

    The following are scheduled for broadcast on cable tv next week, and
for the month of January.

THE JFK ASSASSINATION: THE JIM GARRISON TAPES (1992, 1:35) with Mark Lane
and L. Fletcher Prouty.

        December 30th   Cinemax   2:00 P.M.


JFK: IN HIS OWN WORDS ( :53) featuring interviews, home movies, etc. of
President Kennedy.

        January 2nd     HBO     7:00 P.M.
           "    6th      "      7:00 A.m.
           "   20th      "      1:30 P.M.



and Oliver Stone's movie 'JFK' (3:09) with Kevin Costner, Sissy Spacek, and
Gary Oldman.

        January  2nd    HBO     8:00 P.M.
           "     5th     "      8:00 P.M.
           "    10th     "     10:00 P.M.
           "   14/15th   "      1:30 A.m.
           "    20th     "     11:30 P.M.
           "    24th     "     11:40 P.M.


Check your own cable guides for viewing times in your region, etc.  Enjoy.. :-)

Tom

    	*	*	 *        *        *        *       *       *
Tom Reilley                               
DEC 		 	reilley@studio.enet.dec.com
30 Forbes Road
Northboro, MA 01532-2595 USA
Organization: University of Illinois at Chicago
Date: Thursday, 24 Dec 1992 12:05:23 CST
From: <U54778@uicvm.uic.edu>
Newsgroups: alt.conspiracy.jfk
Subject: Re: Voting on group

In article <Bzrv5u.EK4@darkside.osrhe.uoknor.edu>,
doug@okcforum.osrhe.uoknor.edu (Doug Risher) says:
>
>I was wondering if anyone knows if and when we will vote on alt.conspiracy.jfk
>newsgroup?  It is a fasinating group.

Yeah, but vote on what?  Whether the CIA or the Mafia was behind it?

Or whether we as a group should organize the newsgroup in a different way?

Please elucidate.

ALAN ROGERS  **** U54778@UICVM.UIC.EDU * I speak only for myself as a *
VMKRAFT INC.  708-675-8615             * citizen of the UNIVERSE, not *
                                       * as an employee of Vmkraft nor*
                                       * as a user of U of I Services.*
From: yarvin@cs.yale.edu (Norman Yarvin)
Newsgroups: alt.conspiracy.jfk
Subject: Re: Best Book on JFK Killing
Date: 31 Dec 1992 00:06:00 -0500
Organization: Yale Computer Science Department
NNTP-Posting-Host: cathy.na.cs.yale.edu

m_henderson@csc32.enet.dec.com (Marty Henderson) writes:
>
>I received L. Fletcher Prouty's new book "JFK, The CIA, Vietnam, and the Plot
>to Assassinate John F. Kennedy" for Christmas. It is a Birch Lane Press book
>Published by the "Carol Publishing Group".
>
>I can't put this book down I plan to read it more than once. Prouty is an
>insider who has great insight into the big picture of things. He concentrates
>on the "why" rather than the "who" and "how".

In other words his book is short on details and long on what is really
speculation but is not honestly presented as such.  Just like his (last?)
book _The Secret Team_.

In _The Secret Team_ Prouty says what his function with the CIA was: he gave
briefings.  So calling Prouty an "insider" is an exaggeration; "former
administrative flunky with a grudge" would be more to the point.

As for the 'big picture of things', I believe Napoleon's dictum is relevant:
"A general should never paint pictures; it is the worst thing he can do."


>His main theme of the book is that we will never know the actual names of
>those who instigated the plot, carried it out, actually fired the shots, and
>who have and still do cover it up.

So he doesn't even claim to know the details.
From: schuck@fraser.sfu.ca (Bruce Jonathan Schuck)
Subject: Re: PBS SPECIAL
Reply-To: Bruce_Schuck@sfu.ca
Organization: Simon Fraser University, Burnaby, B.C., Canada
Date: Tue, 29 Dec 1992 17:11:45 GMT

A followup to the stuff on Guinn and NAA.

From "Crime of the Century" by Kurtz. pp 180-181

"Guinn had previously performed NAA on MC ammunition, one of the
bullets being from the same manufacture and production lot (Western
Cartridge Company, lot 6003) as bullets from Oswalds rifle. *None* of
the bullets matched each other. Moreover, Guinn analyzed pieces of the
same bullet, and they too *failed to match*. For example, the four
pieces of the same bullet from lot 6003 had figures ranging from 7.9
to 15.9 parts per million silver, from 80 to 732 ppm antimony and from
17 to 62 ppm copper. Dr Guinn himself admitted that "some
Mannlicher-Carcano bullets can't be distinguished from each other."

"The Connally wrist fragment contained 25% more silver and 850% more
copper than CE399. It also contained 2400% more sodium, 1100% more
chlorine, and it also contained 8.1ppm aluminum, while CE399 contained
zero aluminum."

"Since different parts of the same bullet show different chemical
values, and since the actual assassination fragments tested differed
sharply in their values, the neutron activation analysis hardly lent
scientific weight to the single bullet and lone assassin theories."
Newsgroups: alt.conspiracy.jfk
From: bill@turing.toronto.edu (Bill Monhemius)
Subject: "Film proves JFK shot from behind, scientist says"
Organization: CSRI, University of Toronto
Distribution: na
Date: 4 Jan 93 05:38:16 GMT

I just read an article in the Toronto Star (Jan 3) where University of
Rhode Island scientist Kenneth Rahn said that after examining a laser-disk
version of JFK, he discovered that at the instant of the "head shot" there
was a forward head snap of about 5 cm (2 1/2 inches).  The forward snap was
then followed by the backward lurch about a 1/10 of a second after the
bullet passed through the head and can be attributed to a reflex of the
body.  This apparently proves that there was an assasin firing from behind,
namely, LHO.

Rahn takes a good stab at Oliver Stone, saying that he "blew it big time".
Right.  There's still a lot of mighty peculiar stuff that happened, that
needs explaining.  But after 30 years, I think we're too late.

Anyone read High Treason and/or High Treason 2?  I've noticed that in HT2,
Livingstone takes quite a few shots at his co-author of HT, Robert Groden.
Don't tell me he was involved too! :)

-Bill

-- 
+-------------------------------------------------+
|* * * * * *|%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%|
| * * * * * |            Bill Monhemius           |
|* * * * * *|%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%|
| * * * * * |            bill@turing.toronto.edu  |
+-----------+%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%|
|                        University of Toronto    |
|%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%|
|                        Turing Language Group    |
|%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%|
+-------------------------------------------------+
Newsgroups: alt.conspiracy.jfk
From: schuck@fraser.sfu.ca (Bruce Jonathan Schuck)
Subject: Re: LHO MYSTERY ID
Reply-To: Bruce_Schuck@sfu.ca
Organization: Simon Fraser University, Burnaby, B.C., Canada
Date: Tue, 22 Dec 1992 22:43:46 GMT

grant_jo@ripple.enet.dec.com (Joel Grant) writes:


>1. How come the people on and near the triple overpass who looked over
>at the grassy knoll/picket fence area *during the shooting* in order
>to see if anyone was firing a gun from that location, did not see
>anyone with a gun?  See, for instance, the testimony and statements
>of Austin L. Miller, James Altgens, J.W. Foster, Lee Bowers.

Bowers saw a flash from the area behind the picket fence, which was
reasonably dark.

If you look at the pictures taken towards Zapruder which I have
previously pointed out to you, you would notice it was relatively dark
and shadowed by trees overhanging the picket fence.

If *nobody* was shooting from the grassy knoll/picket fence why did
people hear shots, see gunsmoke and smell gunsmoke in that area?

>2. How come only one gunman from one location was seen firing a
>rifle in Dealy Plaza, that location being the SE corner of the
>6th floor of the TSBD?  Do you really think that assassins, 
>*desirous of not being noticed*, pick crowded parade routes in broad
>daylight to assault their victims with firearms?  And fire from
>a place potentially under the direct observation of numerous
>witnesses?  Far from being a place of concealment, the area behind
>the picket fence was in the direct line of sight of around 18
>people on the triple overpass, all of whom were within less than
>50 yards of the alleged sniper locations.  The little trees there
>have leaves that are, at their lowest, four and a half to five
>feet above the ground, leaving that much of an assassin in totally
>plain view.

The picket fence was about 5 feet tall and in shadows. It was perfect
place to fire from.

Contrary to your analysis, the TSBD was in plain site of several
buildings across the street, and *nobody* saw anyone firing from the
6th floor window.

Also, *none* of the witnesses standing in front of the TSBD heard
shots from above them. Most -- if not all -- heard shots from the
grassy knoll area.

>And if you were hiding from someone, in the middle of a sunny day,
>how much concealment would you expect to find standing next to a
>small elm tree?

Ever hear of shadows?

>The area behind the picket fence was also in the very plain view of
>Zapruder and Sitzman who were about 15 feet away from the "badgeman"
>location and about 45-50 feet away from the sniper location identified
>by the HSCA and others.  Anyone looking west from the south side of
>the TSBD could see behind the fence clearly.  And we could go on and
>on.

You know that the picket fence was *behind* Zapruder, even though you
refuse to get a map and check this out for yourself.

 >And only four people that day thought shots came from more than
>one location.

Several of the SS agents heard shots from the grassy knoll as well as
*many* of the witnesses in Dealey Plaza. 





Newsgroups: alt.conspiracy.jfk
From: FIELD1@NIEHS.bitnet (Jack Field)
Subject: New JFK Books
Keywords: JFK Assassination Oswald
Organization: NIEHS/DIR/SCL
Date: Tue, 29 Dec 1992 13:30:29 GMT

Here are a few books that have become available over the holidays in local
bookstores:

DEADLY SECRETS
The CIA-MAFIA War Against Castro and the Assassination of JFK 
by Warren Hinckle & William Turner
Thunder's Mouth Press - Hardback- $21.95


Hired to Kill Oswald and Prevent the Assassination of JFK - Richard Case Nagell
is 
THE MAN WHO KNEW TOO MUCH
by Dick Russell - 
Carroll & Graf - Hardback- $27.95


COVERING THE BODY
The Kennedy Assassination, the Media, and the Shaping of Collective Memory
by Barbie Zelizer
The University of Chicago Press - Hardback


THE ASSASSINATION CHRONICLES
Inquest, Counterplot, and Legend
by Edward Jay Epstein
Carroll & Graf - Soft Cover - $14.95


THE ASSASSINATION OF JOHN F. KENNEDY
Dates - Places - People
by James P. Duffy and Vincent L. Ricci
Thunder's Mouth Press - Soft Cover - $14.95


AMERICAN GROTESQUE
An Account of the Clay Shaw - Jim Garrison Kennedy Assassination Trial in New
Orleans
by James Kirkwood
Harper Perennial - Soft Cover - $14.00


THE MAN ON THE GRASSY KNOLL
by John R. Craig & Philip A. Rogers
Avon Books - Paperback - $4.50


OSWALD - THE SECRET FILES
Controversial Documents from the Secret Censored Archives of the FBI, CIA and
more.
by Goldstein & Associates - Magazine - $4.98


Jack Field
From: lsi@access.digex.com (Charlie Ellis / Library Services)
Newsgroups: alt.conspiracy.jfk
Subject: Three Stooges Shoot JFK (Film)
Date: 29 Dec 1992 00:26:39 GMT
Organization: Library Services, Incorporated, Baltimore, Maryland
Distribution: world
NNTP-Posting-Host: access.digex.com

	Speaking of conspiracies --->

	I thought I had put the whole issue to rest when I "proved"
that the Three Stooges accidently shot JFK (those knuckleheads). 

	I edited together public domain stooges footage and JFK scenes.
Since there were three of them, that proved conspiracy. Well, it's as 
plausible as any official version! I guess that was really the point of 
the film.

	Most people think it's hilarious. A few are sickened. Viewer 
reactions are always interesting. I tell my customers to offer to screen
a very short 3 stooges blooper reel to their friends. When the Kennedy 
scene hits, wham! Many people drop their facades briefly. It's great fun
to spring this on people.

	Speaking of paranoia --->

	When I first started selling this film ("Single Gun Theory") in
1981, I would advertise in film collector publications. I got a call from
someone identifying himself as the Zapruder family attorney! Now I had used
only public domain news footage but I cheerfully played dumb and sold him a
copy (it was only sold on 16mm film back then). I knew he'd be screening it 
very carefully for zapruder shots. There were none. I hope he wasn't too
disappointed that there were no "actionable" (that's a lawyer word) items
in Single Gun Theory.

	Hey! Those three bums the cops marched across Dealy Plaza! You
don't think...

David Ellis
lsi@digex.com

Newsgroups: alt.conspiracy.jfk
From: gst@stiatl.salestech.com (Greg Tucker)
Subject: 30 Year Aniversary - Events Planned?
Summary: Any events planned in Dallas?
Keywords: JFK
Organization: Sales Technologies, Inc.
Date: Tue, 29 Dec 1992 12:03:36 GMT

   On the 30 year aniversary of the muderous
removal of the great John Kennedy from office
there should be marches in Dallas and Washington.
   The night before, a silent candlelight 
march in remembrance of the great American
ideals the man lived for.
   The day of the anniversary, a march with
thousands shouting "We want the truth! No
more FBI coverup. We want the truth! No more 
CIA coverup." The march would culminate in
the burning in effigy of Hurbert Hoover,
Earl Warren, Allan Dulles, and a Mobster.
   The greatest injustice in American 
history must be brought into the light of
day. 
   Comments Netland?

-- 
    \\\\\\\ 
    | ~  ~|
    | O O |            Tuck        gst@salestech.com
-mn----^----nm---------------------------------------
From: dsteele@almaden.ibm.com (David Steele)
Newsgroups: alt.conspiracy.jfk
Subject: Re: Best Book on JFK Killing
Date: 21 Dec 92 17:29:01 GMT
Reply-To: dsteele@almaden.ibm.com (David Steele)
Organization: IBM Almaden Research Center


    Once you have read a number of these research works, I would 
    suggest reading the novel "Libra" by Don Delillo.
From: bill@prijat.cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon)
Newsgroups: alt.conspiracy.jfk
Subject: Re: LHO MYSTERY ID
Date: 22 Dec 92 19:59:23 GMT
Organization: University of Scranton, Scranton, PA.


In article <schuck.724866975@sfu.ca>, schuck@fraser.sfu.ca 
(Bruce Jonathan Schuck) writes:
> 6489mcadamsj@vms.csd.mu.edu (John McAdams) writes:
> 
> >BTW, how did The Conspiracy know so far in advance that it wanted to kill
> >Kennedy.  Or were they so farsighted that they did all this simply to protect
> >against the contingency of wanting to kill Kennedy.
> 
> A month or two is all they needed. You can't recruit assassins to kill
> the President overnight. 
> 

Based on many books and papers that I have read (and yes, even
some TV documentaries I've seen) I firmly believe that the initial 
decission to assassinate Kennedy was probably made one evening
in November of 1960.  
When an upstart from Massachusettes won an election he was not 
intended to win.  The need became more intense as JFK did many 
things to upset many applecarts.

The only ones to have a reason to see JFK stay in office were the 
people, and their needs and desires have not been of any consequence 
for quite some time.

bill

-- 

     Bill Gunshannon          |        If this statement wasn't here,
     bill@cs.uofs.edu         |  This space would be left intentionally blank
                              |         #include <std.disclaimer.h>   
Newsgroups: alt.conspiracy.jfk
From: dave@clark.dgim.doc.ca (Dave Thompson)
Subject: Re: Book: The Man on the Grassy Knoll
Organization: Communications Canada
Distribution: usa
Date: Mon, 21 Dec 92 12:54:03 GMT

In article <BzLH73.I5n@usenet.ucs.indiana.edu> battin@venus.iucf.indiana.edu writes:
>
>I've recently purchased the book, "The Man on the Grassy Knoll", by
>John R. Craig and Philip A. Rogers. (ISBN # 0-380-77127-6), published
>by Avon Books.  Haven't had time to go over it yet.  (Actually, I'll
>have to get a new copy as mine is missing pages 47-78!)
>
>Gene Battin
>battin@venus.iucf.indiana.edu

Could you post when this book was printed as I would like to know if
it is a book that is readily available in the bookstores. I have not
seen it before or even heard of it. Thanks.

Dave Thompson.
Organization: University of Illinois at Chicago
Date: Tuesday, 29 Dec 1992 23:14:38 CST
From: <U54778@uicvm.uic.edu>
Newsgroups: alt.conspiracy.jfk
Subject: Re: 30 Year Aniversary - Events Planned?

In article <1992Dec29.120336.6065@stiatl.salestech.com>,
gst@stiatl.salestech.com (Greg Tucker) says:
>
>   On the 30 year aniversary of the muderous
>removal of the great John Kennedy from office
>there should be marches in Dallas and Washington.
>   The night before, a silent candlelight
>march in remembrance of the great American
>ideals the man lived for.
>   The day of the anniversary, a march with
>thousands shouting "We want the truth! No
>more FBI coverup. We want the truth! No more
>CIA coverup." The march would culminate in
>the burning in effigy of Hurbert Hoover,
>Earl Warren, Allan Dulles, and a Mobster.
>   The greatest injustice in American
>history must be brought into the light of
>day.
>   Comments Netland?

Yes.  Get a spelling checker program.

>-mn----^----nm---------------------------------------
ALAN ROGERS  **** U54778@UICVM.UIC.EDU * I speak only for myself as a *
VMKRAFT INC.  708-675-8615             * citizen of the UNIVERSE, not *
                                       * as an employee of Vmkraft nor*
                                       * as a user of U of I Services.*
From: ERIKT@odin.uniras.dk (Erik Thaysen, Dev.Dept.)
Newsgroups: alt.conspiracy.jfk
Subject: The book "Doublecross"
Date: 21 Dec 1992 05:30:00 -0600
Organization: UTexas Mail-to-News Gateway
NNTP-Posting-Host: cs.utexas.edu

I am an occasional reader of this group and I would like to hear your
comments on a book I've just finished reading.  (Hope this isn't a
subject that's already been discussed, thus me wasting bandwidth.)

The book is "Doublecross", about the life and death of organized crime
boss Sam "Moony" Giancana, written by Chuck & Sam Giancana (brother
and nephew of Moony).  It ties the murders of both John F. Kennedy and
Robert Kennedy to Moony, however, without ever providing the reader
with any proof.  Also, it claims that father Joseph Kennedy was
connected to organized crime, particularly during the prohibition
period where he supposedly was heavily into smuggling.  The killing of
JFK was a result of Joe Kennedy not keeping his promises to organized
crime, once JFK -- the product of Joe Kennedy -- was in office.  This
is new to me (after all, I don't live in the country where all this
happened, so it is not top of the news over here), and since the book
doesn't provide the proofs itself I would like to hear whether this is
tenable; are there other sources which support this?

Nevertheless, "Doublecross" presents a mob/CIA scenario which doesn't
sound all too unrealistic.  What strikes me in the whole discussion
concerning the murder of JFK is the common reluctance to consider the
combination of "interests" in having JFK removed, e.g., organized
crime in *combination* with (a stray element of) the CIA.  Sure, the
mob probably couldn't pull this stunt by themselves, but teamed up
with "friends" in the CIA, angry exile-cubans...?  I find the mob/CIA
scenario far more plausible than the war industry/CIA scenario.

Erik Thaysen
Denmark
From: dvp@oasis.icl.co.uk (Dave Parry)
Newsgroups: alt.conspiracy.jfk
Subject: Re: Best Book on JFK Killing
Date: 21 Dec 92 12:17:00 GMT
Organization: The Mountains of Madness
X-Newsreader: Tin 1.1 PL4

twarner@hardy.u.washington.edu (Tom Warner) writes:
> 
> Garrison's book is tripe. At least in comparison to the good ones.

Your personal opinion? You have evidence to back this statement up? If
so, what?

Please enlighten us.

Regards

Dave

--
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
------              Merry Christmas and a Happy New Year          -------
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
Newsgroups: alt.conspiracy.jfk
From: dc@ais.org (David Daniels)
Subject: Comparisonu File
Organization: UMCC
Date: Mon, 28 Dec 1992 09:01:24 GMT


I'm not sure if this is the correct place to post this, but a couple years
ago I saw a file that compared the deaths and lives of JFK and Lincoln.
If anyone happenes to have this file, or can point me in the appropriate
direction on the usenet, or ftp, I'd appreciate it.

Thanks in advance, dc@ais.org