HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: James_E._Grigsby.ES_M7@XEROX.COM
Subject: Re: Nihonjin In American Films
Reply-To: NIHONGO@mitvma.mit.edu
Organization: The Internet
Date: Mon, 12 Oct 1992 20:13:31 GMT

Apart from the obvious WWII depiction of the evil menace (remember John Wayne's
`Sands of Iwo Jima') or the modern Samurai/Yakuza confusion (e.g. `Black Rain'
with Michael Douglas. . . not to be confused with the Japanese film  `Kuroi
Ame' about the nuclear aftermath) there are really a variety of depictions of
Japanese in American films.  As an example, recently I brought home three
videos. They range from A. Wrong (but sympathetic) to  B. Wrong (but funny) to
C. Wrong (and hateful).

Example A: Though I didn't expect it, `Sayonara' with Marlon Brando presented a
believable story of a closed-minded military man being gradually won over to
Japanese culture.  Although it was hard to take Ricardo Montelbon seriously as
a Kabuki Onnagata, the rest of the movie was better than I would expect for the
time period.

Example B (actually an English film, but somehow part of the American ethos):
My wife and I are still laughing about the James Bond film set in Japan (`You
only live twice').  Bond claims to have studied Japanese at Cambridge, and then
proceeds to mispronounce the only Japanese words he says: SAKE and TANAKA.  And
the scenes where the audience is expected to believe that a 6-foot plus
Scotsman could go undercover as a Japanese fisherman with a wig and some silly
eye makeup.  Just ludicrous!

Example C: Then, I screened `Breakfast at Tiffanys', because my wife wanted to
see a film with Audrey Hepburn (apparently she's a popular symbol in Japan?).
But, I had forgotten about Mickey Rooney's hideous depiction of a moronic
Japanese neighbor.  My wife, who is Japanese, didn't recognize the character as
being Japanese at all.  ("Is that character supposed to have a mental problem?
Why is he living in a Japanese style apartment?") It was so repellant, I
couldn't finish screening the video.

Any other examples out there?
From: bragg@pecan.cns.udel.edu (Adam Bragg)
Newsgroups: sci.lang.japan
Subject: Kanji Talk
Keywords: FAQ?
Date: 16 Oct 92 16:11:37 GMT
Organization: The Green Circle Of Vengence


	Hi.  I couldn't find the FAQ so sorry if this is a redunant topic, but
does anyone know if Kanji Talk works on the MacIIcx?
	Also, Does anyone know of a Japanese word processor for the NeXT?
Thanks for any help!




-- 
Adam Bragg                  |Remeber kids, don't try this at home, this
bragg@freezer.cns.udel.edu  | should only be done by professional
darkwing@ravel.udel.edu     |  idiots!       --Plucky Duck 
                          SPOON!
Newsgroups: sci.lang.japan
From: jwb@capek.rdt.monash.edu.au (Jim Breen)
Subject: Re: kanji of the day ?52
Organization: Monash University, Melb., Australia.
Date: Fri, 9 Oct 1992 03:02:57 GMT

stueber@VAX.MPIZ-KOELN.MPG.DBP.DE writes:

>KANJI OF THE DAY # 52

>JIS      = 2150 (serial number)
 
hex 3772

>Compounds:

>SHITATAKAmono  -  desperate character, scoundrel; strong-willed person
>KENkouhou      -  hygiene

Thenk you (now in edict)

And from edict's growing ranks:

anKEN		quiet (an), dependable, uniform
ganKEN		robust health
gouKEN		vigour, virility, health
souKEN		healthy (an), robust
SUKO(yaka)	vigorous (an), healthy, sound
KENzai		in good health, well
KENshou		good health
KENtou		fighting bravely (vs), good luck! (id)
hoKENfuku	district health nurse, public health nurse
KENbou		forgetfulness
KENboushou	amnesia, loss of memory

-- 
Jim Breen                           JIS:$B%8%`!!%V%j!<%s(J
Department of Robotics & Digital Technology. Monash University. 
PO Box 197 Caulfield East VIC 3145 Australia (ph) +61 3 573 2552 
(fax) +61 3 573 2345  AARNet/Internet:jwb@capek.rdt.monash.edu.au
From: mchen@bonnie.ics.uci.edu (Futile Visionary)
Newsgroups: sci.lang.japan
Subject: Re: Reading and understanding kanji/kanzi
Date: 16 Oct 92 16:16:45 GMT
Reply-To: mchen@ics.uci.edu (Futile Visionary)
Organization: Univ. of Calif., Irvine, Info. & Computer Sci. Dept.

In article <2272@usna.NAVY.MIL> wdw@math2.sma.usna.navy.MIL (Wm. Douglas Withers -- math  FACULTY <wdw@sma.usna.navy.mil>) writes:

>
>These probably got garbled for some people.  Let me try again.
>
>   \  |  /                       \ |                      |) __|__
>      |                           \|___                   |\   |
>     / \                          /|\                     |/  / \
>   /     \                       / J \                    |  /  _|
>
>Japanese hi, KA              Japanese mizu, SUI       Japanese BOU, fusegu
>Chinese huo3                 Chinese shui3            Chinese fang2
>`fire'                       `water'                  `prevent'
>--

	Here's my version for mizu and fusegu...


		| _		|) __\__
	     __	|/		|\   |
	      /	|\		|/  / --|
	     / \| \		|  /   \|


Morison
****************************************************************************
Morison I. Chen			       |"He who is not contented with what
Undergrad., Info. & Computer Sci. Major| he has, would not be contented with
University of California, Irvine       | what he would like to have."
EMail: mchen@bonnie.ics.uci.edu	       |            --Socrates (470?-399 BC)
****************************************************************************
From: blanchon@imag.fr (Herve Blanchon)
Newsgroups: sci.lang.japan
Subject: Re: kanji of the day ?48
Date: 8 Oct 92 16:25:27 GMT
Organization: GETA - (UJF & CNRS) - Grenoble - France
X-UserAgent: Nuntius v1.1a2

It is the same for me
From: wdw@math2.sma.usna.navy.MIL (Wm. Douglas Withers -- math  FACULTY <wdw@sma.usna.navy.mil>)
Newsgroups: sci.lang.japan
Subject: Re: Reading and understanding kanji/kanzi
Date: 16 Oct 92 13:14:56 GMT
Organization: U.S. Naval Academy

In article <1992Oct15.191411.901@tamsun.tamu.edu> y0l8009@tamsun.tamu.edu (Yoshih Lee) writes:
>... I am curious to know
>how the use of kanji "feels" (in terms of grammatical usage), and whether any 
>differences are "felt" when using Chinese-origin compounds versus Japanese-
>origin compounds.

I think you can find some variation in the ordering of characters within a
compound.  One example comes to mind.  Apologies if I've not remembered
it correctly, but it involves the three characters:

  \  |  /                       \ |                      |) __|__
     |                           \|___                   |\   |
	/ \                          /|\                     |/  / \
  /     \                       / J \                    |  /  _|
  
Japanese hi, KA              Japanese mizu, SUI       Japanese BOU, fusegu
Chinese huo3                 Chinese shui3            Chinese fang2
`fire'                       `water'                  `prevent'

One then considers the two words SUIBOU (`flood prevention') and BOUKA
(`fire prevention').  The question is why is this word BOUKA and not KABOU.
The answer is that BOUKA is the normal order (`action' followed by `object'
describes `specific action') according to CHINESE rules of compound formation;
It is SUIBOU which is abnormal.  The explanation for SUIBOU is that the
compound BOUSUI already exists with the meaning `waterproofing.'

Compounds formed with Japanese roots may follow different rules of ordering.
For example `yaki' (`broil',`fry') + `niku' (`meat') = `yakiniku' (`broiled
meat').  Note that the word describes a kind of meat rather than a kind of
broiling.  On the other hand `shio' (`salt') + `yaki' = `shioyaki', not
meaning broiled salt but rather broiling using salt.  Or one of my favorites:
`medama' (`eyeball') + `yaki' = `medamayaki'.  This is not `fried eyeballs'
but (an egg) `fried to look like an eyeball', what we call in English
`sunny-side up'.

Perhaps I'll follow with more precise comments after I've had a chance to
check my reference books.
-- 
Els Withers                   email: wdw@math2.sma.usna.navy.mil
Department of Mathematics     phone: (410)267-3192 / fax: (410)267-4883
United States Naval Academy
Annapolis, MD  21402-5002     Senri no tabi mo ippo yori...
From: dan@cafws2.eng.uci.edu (Dan Harkless)
Newsgroups: sci.lang.japan
Subject: Re: Heian Alphabet
Date: 8 Oct 92 22:13:30 GMT
Organization: University of California, Irvine

In article <1476@wakasato.cs.shinshu-u.ac.jp> nakano@suncom1.cs.shinshu-u.ac.jp (NAKANO Yasuaki) writes:
>
>This is "iroha", a famous poem written with all kana characters,
>each of which is used once and oly once. "Iroha" had been used in
>children education for long years. I don't know if it is taught in
>public schools now.

	My Japanese teacher said it is no longer taught there...

------------------------------------------------------------------------------
| Dan Harkless                | "The sore in my soul                         |
| dan@cafws1.eng.uci.edu      |  The mark in my heart  ->  Front 242,        |
| dharkles@bonnie.ics.uci.edu |  Her acid reign..."        Tragedy >For You< |
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Newsgroups: sci.lang.japan
From: mccullou@cae.wisc.edu (Mark McCullough)
Subject: Re: Answer to Nihongo dictionary: suggestions .
Organization: U of Wisconsin-Madison College of Engineering
Date: 7 Oct 92 20:39:49 CDT

In article <39086@sdcc12.ucsd.edu> djohnson@cs.ucsd.edu (Darin Johnson) writes:
>What about a Japanese-English dictionary?  I would think this is
>a more useful device, yet I haven't seen any good ones...  Lots
>of E-J dictionaries though (which I never use).
>-- 
>Darin Johnson
>djohnson@ucsd.edu
>  - I'm not a well adjusted person, but I play one on the net.

   I find that Sanseido's Concise Japanese-English Dictionary is very satisfact-
ory. The entries are in romaji, followed by the appropriate kanji, or hira gana
for some of the entries.I bought it in Japan for 2,800 yen, and I believe that
there is also a non-concise version. I have seen it for sale here in America,
at the Yaohan Plaza in Arlington Heights, IL. There are even swell maps inside
the front and back covers :)
                         Keith Booton
From: djohns@elm.circa.ufl.edu (David A. Johns)
Newsgroups: sci.lang
Subject: Re: Subjectless verbs; was: Re: SVO / VSO
Date: 14 Oct 92 09:00:31 GMT
Organization: University of Florida, Gainesville

In article <1992Oct6.130812.3550@memstvx1.memst.edu> connolly@memstvx1.memst.edu writes:

# In particular, Latin drops not only subjects, but (with distressing
# frequency) direct objects, though these leave no morphological or
# syntactic trace.

Same for Russian.

# Japanese and many other languages prodrop any NP recoverable from
# context, yet lack any verb agreement in the normal sense (Japanese
# honorific doesn't count; it's too limited to be of use here).

Japanese can also drop whole PPs.

# It's undeniably true that prodrop -- or better, zero anaphora -- is
# favored in languages with fairly complete verb agreement and
# disfavored where this sort of morphology is minimal or lackinga.

This view seems much more sensible to me than rigid categorization.
You mentioned languages that allow zero anaphora without agreement
(Japanese) and those that do not even though there seems to be enough
agreement to support it (German), but you also have to account for
cases like Russian, where there's plenty of agreement and zero
anaphora is allowed, but is not actually used anywhere near as often
as you might expect.

David Johns


Newsgroups: sci.lang
From: markrose@spss.com (Mark Rosenfelder)
Subject: Re: Subjectless verbs
Organization: SPSS Inc.
Date: Mon, 12 Oct 1992 19:27:11 GMT

In article <1992Oct12.100915.3623@memstvx1.memst.edu> connolly@memstvx1.memst.
edu (Leo Connolly) writes:
>In article <1992Oct11.140719.23157@enea.se>, sommar@enea.se 
(Erland Sommarskog) writes:
>> Of course all this morpheme business is just a recontruction post
>> facto; more or less rules for a recreational game we've made up.
>
>Come now!  Is it any more a "reconstruction post facto" than any
>other form of linguistic analysis?  Surely you don't mean to say
>that linguistics is just a hobby?  If so, we should all take up
>some other form of dishonest labor, such as banking.

I think there's an interesting question lurking in Mr. Sommarskog's question,
which I was edging toward too with my question about null morphemes: 
what does it mean to say that (say) the 2.sg. personal ending in Spanish 
"is" -s?  

Does it mean that this is the case in the most parsimonious theoretical
statement of the morphology we can come up with?  If so the statement may
bear only an indirect relationship to whatever cognitive system Spanish
speakers actually have in their heads; in this case the statement has
"only" theoretical validity, and this could lead to Mr. Sommarskog's
characterization of the analysis as a "game."  

Or does it mean that all or most Spanish speakers actually do have a 
mental grammar in which the 2.sg ending is -s?  That may be; but such a 
theory should presumably be supported by psychological not just 
morphological evidence; and it should tolerate the possibility that not 
all speakers' grammars are identical.  There are many ways of learning a 
language and perhaps each path leads to a different grammar.

How do you see things-- in one of these two ways, or have you got a
tertium quid up your sleeve?
From: connolly@memstvx1.memst.edu
Newsgroups: sci.lang
Subject: Was fuer ein (Was: Case & NP-movement)
Date: 9 Oct 92 15:39:59 GMT
Organization: Memphis State University

In article <1992Oct9.013716.8875@athena.mit.edu>, pesetsk@athena.mit.edu (David M Pesetsky) writes:

[much discussion of Icelandic omitted]

> On a related matter [?] is there any account of the German "was fuer" or
> Russian "chto za" (`what kind of`) constructions that explains why the
> following NP is nominative?

German _was fuer (ein)_ can be followed by any of the four cases:

	Was fuer ein Mensch (NOM) ist er?  'What kind of guy is he?'
	Was fuer eines Menschen Auto hat sie gestohlen?  (GEN)
		'What kind of guy's car did she steal?'
	Was fuer einem Menschen hat er Bier gebracht?  (DAT)
		'What kind of guy did he bring beer to?'
	Was fuer einen Menschen hat er gesehen?  (ACC)
		'What kind of guy did he see?'

In other words: _fuer_ is not a preposition in this construction, though
I don't purport to know what it is.  Case assignment of the following NP
is entirely normal, so _was fuer_ must somehow be adjoined to the NP.
In any event, it can have nothing to do with retained nominative in
certain Icelandic infinitival constructions.

--Leo Connolly
Newsgroups: sci.lang
Subject: Re: the 'so' = 'it' question
From: bthurman@uncavx.unca.edu
Date: 9 Oct 92 10:54:41 -0500
Organization: University of North Carolina at Asheville
Nntp-Posting-User: bthurman

Would it not characterize even a sub-Tiro not to know that 'it' as 'it' itself
or 'it' in 'like it' involves anaphora?  Was not the point that examples of the
same phenomenon that would not involve anaphora could have been picked? Still,
would you think one confused who does not find a consistent principle of
differentiation why a DA-SA distinction has to be claimed between 'like it' and
'it'?  Was not bearded Bill's point clear that equation of apparently
substantival target to apparently adverbial target occurs totally apart from
injection of anaphoric element or of deep-surface analysis?  What of 'do well'
= 'do good things'? 'savoir faire' = 'to know how to do it'? 'know fighting' =
'know how to fight'?  Might it help to appreciate ambiguity of comparative
words and clauses? May not 'like x' be used of either resemblance (even the
remotely parabolic or similitudinal) or of identity?  May one hold that
adverbial comparative usage indicating resemblance, e.g. the Homeric simile,
does not equate with the substantival; but that that based upon identity
readily may, e.g. 'She thought as her mother thought.' may equal 'She thought
what her mother thought.'?  Could one summarize, in terms of the 'so', or 'like
it' = 'it' question, that, when 'like it' has been intended to indicate
identity rather than resemblance, it often becomes tantamount simply to 'it'? 
May one not document plenty of instances where the adverbial houtos = touto or
tauta?  
P.S. Wasn't the matter of kinds of subjects of pluere garbled in an earlier
posting?  Should it have more clearly listed stuff that comes down (e.g. saxa)
and the source (e.g. caelum) as documentable subjects?  Could one not
technically say that the abridged Liddell & Scott tomes do not really qualify
as lexica at all, because they do not cite the source of the individual senses
or uses?
From: amunn@gibbs.oit.unc.edu (Alan Munn)
Newsgroups: sci.lang
Subject: Re: Subjectless verbs; was: Re: SVO / VSO
Date: 12 Oct 92 16:08:19 GMT
Organization: University of North Carolina

In article <Bvt7wL.I7L@gate.demon.co.uk> asc@aclark (Alexander Clark) writes:

>A trivial point -
>
>there are dialects of english which allow one to drop the subject: the  
>so-called 'retired colonel' dialect which allows
>
>"Saw my son yesterday.  Doesn't know one end of rifle from the other.   
>Rained all day yesterday ."
>
>and so on

Ecept that the phenomenon only appears in root clauses; it can't
appear in embedded clauses so you can't say: "Saw my son yesterday.
Said that was sick"  etc.

Nor is the null subject ever obligatory as it is in pro-drop languages
in bound variable context, thus you can't say *Noone said likes ice
cream to mean Noone said he likes ice cream.  The latter sentence with
the pronoun doesn't have the bound variable interpretation in pro drop
languages.

So whether there's a pro drop 'parameter' per se, there are certainly
a number of phenomena which are quite different from English pro drop,
so arguments from English shouldn't be used to decide.

Alan
-- 
Alan Munn                     <amunn@gibbs.oit.unc.edu>
Dept. of Linguistics, CB# 3155 UNC Chapel Hill NC 27599
From: connolly@memstvx1.memst.edu
Newsgroups: sci.lang
Subject: Re: pluere again + ad aliquem dicere
Date: 13 Oct 92 13:34:51 -0600
Organization: Memphis State University

In article <1992Oct13.111839.1@uncavx.unca.edu>, bthurman@uncavx.unca.edu writes:
> Did you not do well to find that the Lord (dominus) may also be the source of
> the rain as subject of pluere?  Does this not parallel the usage Zeus brechei?
> Had this analogous usage of pluere not been suggested by the personal subject
> with brechein (e.g. Matthew 5,45)?  Could one not generalize that all sorts of
> (even demotic) Greek syntactical features will have been incorporated into
> Latin by the time of Eusebius Hieronymus?  What's this about verbs of saying
> with de+object?  Wasn't that a slip for ad+object?  Wasn't that almost uniform
> for pros (or even eis)+object in Greek?  Isn't Roman new comedy (and even other
> standard authors than Cicero, e.g. Caesar and Sallust) replete with expressions
> like nuntiari ad aliquem, dare ad aliquem (instead of alicui) and doesn't even
> Cicero have scribere ad aliquem?  What's this about how low Latin has sunk on
> such a basis?

Quod dicere velis intelligere nequeo.

--Leo Rugiens
From: bthurman@uncavx.unca.edu
Newsgroups: sci.lang
Subject: Re: pluit again
Date: 8 Oct 92 16:24:23 GMT
Organization: University of North Carolina at Asheville
Nntp-Posting-User: bthurman

Didn't some assertion appear last week that pluit never appears with a subject? 
Might not the point of my post have been that forms of pluere do appear with at
least two kinds of subjects, some like saxa (the stuff (the stufflike caelum (a
source)?  Might not the implication have been that other Latin impersonals not
known to occur with subjects could have been picked?  Would 'bearded bill', no
matter how often flamed over possibly DS-SS pseudo-distinctions, have quoted ho
Zeus as a subject of brechei, if it did not occur as a subject of brechei?
From: ct@dde.dk (Claus Tondering)
Newsgroups: sci.lang
Subject: Re: two questions
Keywords: gender, word marking
Date: 16 Oct 92 08:19:46 GMT
Organization: Dansk Data Elektronik A/S

markrose@spss.com (Mark Rosenfelder) writes:

>The "genders" are really declensional patterns: that is, words belonging
>to different patterns decline in different ways.  All the Indo-European
>languages go back to a three-gender system in proto-Indo-European.

What creates gender changes within, for example, the Germanic languages?
One great example is "human being" which has the following gender
in three closely related languages:

Language   Word       Gender
-------------------------------
German     Mensch     masculine
Danish     menneske   neuter
Swedish    ma"nniska  feminine

The words 'Mensch', 'menneske', and 'ma"nniska' are so obviously the same
word. Why has it changed gender? And which is the original gender?

-- 
Claus Tondering
Dansk Data Elektronik A/S, Herlev, Denmark
E-mail: ct@dde.dk
Newsgroups: sci.lang
From: lee@uhunix.uhcc.Hawaii.Edu (Greg Lee)
Subject: Re: SVO / VSO
Organization: University of Hawaii
Date: Thu, 15 Oct 1992 13:00:15 GMT

In article <1992Oct11.170825.9783@athena.mit.edu> pesetsk@athena.mit.edu (David M Pesetsky) writes:
}In article <1992Oct11.110532.10997@news.Hawaii.Edu> lee@uhunix.uhcc.Hawaii.Edu (Greg Lee) writes:
}>...
}>What's my "semantics", and what does it mean to say it "has a tree
}>structure"?  We're really not on the same wavelength.  
}
}So fear I as well.  Granted, in the interests of precision, I should
}have written "your semantics *entails* a tree structure" or something of
}the sort, but surely the problem does not lie here.
}
}I can't reconcile your current objections with your statement in the
}previous posting:
}
}>No, you misunderstand.  The "VP" of the "functional structure" in my
}>handout has _only_ semantic underpinnings or consequences. ...

As an excuse for talking about this in a confusing way, I will plead that
it is a confusing matter to talk about.  There is some semantics that
linguists do which is not real semantics, in my opinion, but only
a concealed way of talking about syntax: syntax with sugar.  A way
to show this, if true, is to start with syntax and provide sufficient
sugar to build up a semantics-speak.  That's what I was trying to do.
There's a VP in semantics-speak, but none in the syntax.  As to whether
there is a VP in the semantics, it depends on what one takes "the
semantics" to be.  If the semantics is to be found in the one talks
about a grammatical theory, speaking of function applications as
providing interpretations, e.g., then I've got a VP.  But if the form
of the grammar itself is what counts, then since there is no semantics
there at all, I've got no VP.  It's not in the syntax, and there's
nowhere else for it to be.  So it's fair to say that in the theory
of that handout I posted, there is no VP, because once you explain
a thing away, it's gone.

David Lewis once criticized Jerrold Katz's semantics for being merely
a procedure for translating into the special language of "Markerese",
rather than being a real semantics.  I agreed with that, but then I
don't think that what Lewis was doing was real semantics, either.

--
Greg Lee <lee@uhunix.uhcc.hawaii.edu>
Newsgroups: sci.lang
From: gankw@iscs.nus.sg
Subject: looking for Walter A. Cook, S. J.
Reply-To: GANKW@NUSDISCS.BITNET
Organization: Dept. of Information Systems and Computer Science, National University of Singapore
Date: Thu, 8 Oct 1992 03:30:38 GMT

I'm looking for the E-mail and postal addresses of 
Walter A. Cook, S. J. Can anyone pls. help? Thanks.

Kok Wee Gan
Dept. of Information Systems & Comp. Science
National University of Singapore
Internet: gankw@iscs.nus.sg
Bitnet: gankw@nusdiscs.bitnet
Newsgroups: sci.lang