HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: booter@Autodesk.COM (Elaine Richards)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: Gay Myths and Jeep Codes
Date: 29 Jul 92 20:29:05 GMT
Organization: Autodesk, Inc., Sausalito, CA

In article <1992Jul27.173743.29098@ads.com> henry@ADS.COM (Henry Mensch) writes:
>foster@convex.COM (Harry Foster) wrote: 
>->	.... That was when I 
>->	found out he harbored the misconception that gay men are 
>->	attracted to all other males.  
>
>they all seem to think this.  is this information part of the early-on
>programming for heterosexuals or something?


Its an ego thing. They think the whole world wants them. 
Its a projection thing. They want to fuck every woman who walks the earth,
therefore a gay man wants to fuck every man who walks the earth.
Its a phobe thing. They fear what they do not understand.

ER
--
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
I don't know when it was that I scratched Fate's car door, but I should have
left a note. --Tim Mefford

Xref: sparky soc.motss:33132 talk.politics.misc:36613 alt.individualism:4751 alt.activism:13736
From: mpolen@gelato.mips.com (Michael Polen)
Newsgroups: soc.motss,talk.politics.misc,alt.individualism,alt.activism
Subject: Re: On Banning Private Discrimination
Date: 30 Jul 92 15:45:42 GMT
Article-I.D.: spim.l7g3l6INN7nb
Distribution: world
Organization: MIPS Computer Systems, Inc.
NNTP-Posting-Host: gelato.mips.com

In article <1992Jul29.135709.13474@fig.citib.com>, glp@fig.citib.com (Greg Parkinson) writes:
|> 
|> In article <l78ueoINNt4l@spim.mips.com>, mpolen@gelato.mips.com (Michael Polen) writes:
|> |> Greg Parkinson) writes:
|> |> |> 
|> |> |> It's much more likely that I can understand your life than you
|> |> |> can understand mine.  First of all, heterosexuals are in full
|> |> |> display just about everywhere we look - on television, film,
|> |> |> on the street.  We are forced to notice, to watch, to be aware
|> |> |> of how you do things.  Secondly, many of us *lived* your life
|> |> |> in many ways.  I grew up a white upper-middle-class male.  I had
|> |> |> girlfriends.  I wasn't an identifiable "fag".  I had all the
|> |> |> assumed benefits that go along with that role.  And then I came
|> |> |> out, and I found that I could be fired, be kicked out of where
|> |> |> I lived, be attacked and beaten, and abandoned by people I thought
|> |> |> were my friends.  You have *no* *idea* what making that transition
|> |> |> is like. 
|> |> |>
|> |> So what.  This is the same argument that blacks use that whites cannot
|> |> understand what it is liked to be black.  Sure it is true.  But just
|> |> because I can't know what it is like to be gay, doesn't mean I can't 
|> |> support your cause.  If this were extended to blacks and no whites
|> |> had supported their cause, they would be even worse off that they
|> |> are today.
|> 
|> 
|> Huh?  
|> 
So I got wordy.  How about:

	You don't have to have been a victim of murder to campaign for
	a society where murder is illegal.
Newsgroups: soc.motss,rec.martial-arts
From: thaaang@cwis.unomaha.edu (John Dorrance)
Subject: Re: Gay martial artists (was Re: aikido!)
Organization: University of Nebraska at Omaha
Date: Thu, 30 Jul 1992 19:25:02 GMT

First I thought this said 'marital artists'. What would a queer marital
artist be? Someone who knows a lot about marital aesthetics (decorator/
caterer for weddings, author of 'How to Liven Up your Marriage via our
Specially-Prepared Makeover!!!'-type articles for women's magazines),
or someone with a lot of knowledge about marital aids (why are they
called that when such a small percentage of married couples would admit
to using them together?)?

Tangent-Boy strikes again!,

--
John Dorrance    ** Disco Diva y Flamenco Chico **    thaaang@odin.unomaha.edu

		I always thought of you as my brick wall
		   Built like an angel, six feet tall.
From: rich.bellacera@amail.amdahl.com
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: re: Modern Family Values
Date: 27 Jul 92 00:15:07 GMT
Return-Path: <amail.amdahl.com!rich.bellacera@juts.ccc.amdahl.com>

I like this idea.  Perhaps it would sound even better as "Contemporary Family
Values".  I know they mean essentially the same thing, but IMHO "contempory"
sounds better.  Nevertheless, the idea is good.  Perhaps as a counterforce to
the idiocy going on in Oregon we should start a "Contemprary Family Values
Coalition" which could hold members ranging across the spectrum.

Sort of a "Get with the '90s" theme.

Membership could/should include:

Gay/Lesbian/bisexuals

Straights who think in contemporary terms (i.e. P-FLAG types)

Gay Christians

any others who support the idea of the modern family view and are tired of
biggotted hate-filled Christians and straights who only have a self-serving
agenda that seeks to deny any rights to those who do not fight tightly into
their narrow small-minded and mean-spirited world.
From: amz@iguana.cis.ohio-state.edu (Arnold M Zwicky)
Subject: re: breeders and kikes
Followup-To: soc.motss
Summary: whaddaya mean, "good"
Organization: outil, stanford, lsa, osu,...
Date: Tue, 21 Jul 1992 14:36:47 GMT

in article <92202.191537IO81409@MAINE.MAINE.EDU>
io81409@maine.maine.edu (ailsa) writes:

 >there are good dykes and bad dykes, good black people and bad black
 >people,...

pity that language isn't that simple.  the "good jews and bad jews"
line gets its nastiness from a systematic ambiguity in the way
evaluative adjectives are understood when they modify nouns.  there
are at least three ways to understand a phrase like "good linguists":
an intersective reading, in which it refers to those who are both
good and linguists (this is the one ailsa is using in her posting,
and it's the usual reading for non-evaluative adjectives, like
"pink" in "pink triangle"); an adverbial reading, meaning something
like `doing what linguists do well' or `good at being a linguist'
or (if only english had the verb) `linguisting well' (this is the
usual reading with agent and instrument nouns, as in "good cook"
and "marvelous cocksucker" and "poor harpischordist"); and a
reading in which the adjective is understood as applying to an
activity or condition rather than directly to a person or thing,
meaning something like `doing/exhibiting good linguistics'.

so "bad jew" *could* just refer to a jew who was judged to be bad, but
it almost surely didn't in the good/bad-jew quotation.  and it *could*
just refer to someone who is poor at being a jew, who never goes to
temple, revels in pork-and-cheese casseroles, etc., but it almost
surely didn't mean that in the quotation (though it would probably
have that interpretation in the mouth of another jew).  what it did
refer to is people who exhibit bad-jewishness, that is, who embody the
negative side of the stereotypical jew, what you might call
"shylockhood".

as always in language, which interpretation is the right one depends
on who's speaking and on what the context is.  am i complimented if
someone calls me "a good faggot"?  it depends.  if it's jess, for
instance, i'll figure he's saying i'm good at being a faggot, that i'm
out and proud, vocal, and, yes, motssishly sexy.  that i would take to
be high praise.  if it's one of the clueless strayt boyz talking, i'll
figure i'm being insulted twice - once crudely, with the word
"faggot", and once more subtly, with the implication that i embody
what they think of as good-faggotry, meaning i'm weak and innocuous,
artistic, stylishly dressed, always hot to service strayt cocks, and
the like.  (ok, i *am* sort of artistic.)

arnold (always hoping to be a better faggot)
From: scott@bbx.basis.com (Scott Amspoker)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: There was this sign in the window...
Keywords: @$#!% NewsWatcher bug...
Date: 22 Jul 92 02:16:44 GMT
Organization: BASIS International, Ltd., Albuquerque NM USA

In article <1992Jul21.212842.5754@spdcc.com> dyer@spdcc.com (Steve Dyer) writes:
>You're being entirely too sensitive to the red-herring of
>"sexual harassment" here, but your BS detector is right-on.
>I think the notion that these morons got propositioned by
>anyone at the march is as likely as Frank Rizzo being
>reincarnated as a drag queen.
>
>They got nailed in a way they didn't expect, and in that
>regard they deserved it.

I agree.  Even if they had been propositioned they could have put up a
sign indicating that they were on serious business and didn't want to
be disturbed except for emergencies.  "We're straight" doesn't mean
anything useful.

This reminds me of the little "no lot lizards" sign some truckers have
in their windows.  I find it interesting that someone would advertise
that they *don't* want sex as their first communication with strangers.

-- 
Scott Amspoker                       |    
Basis International, Albuquerque, NM |  Too bad ignorance isn't really
                                     |  bliss.  Then it could be outlawed.
scott@bbx.basis.com                  |
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: twpierce@amhux1.amherst.edu (Tim Pierce)
Subject: Re: new hankie codes?
Organization: Amherst College, Amherst MA
Date: Sun, 26 Jul 1992 07:27:44 GMT

In article <1992Jul23.234436.24527@uwm.edu> pst@csd4.csd.uwm.edu (Peter Stephen Thomas Iii) writes:

>Well, I'm hoping that those two were straight boys.  The idea of someone
>advertising themselves as a bondage Top or piercing Top at the age of 18 (or
>possibly younger)  gives me the shivers and NOT from excitment!!
>
>Where's the damn fashion police when you need 'em?

Fashion police aside, why does this give you the shivers?

-- 
____ Tim Pierce                / "You mean there are TWO of you, Pierce?
\  / twpierce@amherst.edu      /  God help us all."
 \/ (BITnet: TWPIERCE@AMHERST) /   -- Major Charles Emerson Winchester III
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: duhon@chinet.chi.il.us (Joey Duhon)
Subject: Re: RFD: Still in print?
Date: Thu, 23 Jul 1992 14:42:01 GMT
Organization: Chinet - Public Access UNIX


"RFD is published quarterly for $18 per year by Short Mt. Collective,
Rt. 1, Box 84A, Liberty, TN 37095." [cover price is $5.50]
-- from latest issue (#70) summer '92.
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: remcke01@ulkyvx.louisville.edu (Richard McKewen)
Subject: Re: Naval Aviator Thorne
Organization: University of Louisville
Date: Mon, 27 Jul 1992 21:15:02 GMT

In article <jhansen.712077840@convex.convex.com>, jhansen@convex.com (James Hansen) writes:
> I heard last night that the naval review board voted 3-0 to dismiss
> Mr. Thorne with an honorable discharge.  
                     ^^^^^^^^^

If this is true, it is something to note.  Usually a "convicted" homo-
sexual in the military is given an "administrative" discharge.  You 
know, the same thing that Klinger was going for with his Section 8
quest.

------------------------------------->
Richard McKewen                                                   
University of Louisville                      
Internet:  remcke01@ulkyvx.louisville.edu  
Bitnet:    remcke01@ulkyvx                         CECI N'EST PAS UNE PIPE
                                     <------------------------------------
Newsgroups: soc.motss,talk.politics.misc,alt.individualism,alt.activism
From: billn@hpcvaac.cv.hp.com (bill nelson)
Subject: Re: On Banning Private Discrimination
Organization: Hewlett-Packard Company, Corvallis, Oregon USA
Date: Tue, 28 Jul 1992 01:11:04 GMT

dauber@sgi.com (Jeff Dauber) writes:

: >  For example, Reginald Denny happened to be a white guy at the wrong place 
: >  at the wrong time. More blacks were killed in the LA riots than any other
: >  group.
: 
: If you would include the group I was talking about, you would see that 
: your statement makes less sense.  HMs between 16-25 tend to commit hate
: crimes against gays.  We are not talking about the level of violence in the
: street.  We are talking about people looking for a faggot to beat up.

A gross generalization. Better would be to state that: "The people that go 
around looking for gays to beat up tend to be white males between the ages
of 16 and 25." Your statement lumps all HWMs in that age group together,
and is far from true - because of that.

Bill
From: adolphso@mizar.usc.edu (adolphson)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: homophobes sabotaging motss (was Re: There was this sign in the window...)
Date: 29 Jul 1992 10:15:03 -0700
Organization: University of Southern California, Los Angeles, CA
NNTP-Posting-Host: mizar.usc.edu

In article <1992Jul29.022539.10922@macc.wisc.edu> 
anderson@macc.wisc.edu (Jess Anderson) writes:
|
| In article <l7boipINN8qd@mizar.usc.edu>
| adolphso@mizar.usc.edu (adolphson) writes:
|
| >Do motssisti react similarly
| >to these cross-posts?  Does anyone write a talk.politics.misc cross-
| >poster to tell him/her to stop posting "breeder shit" here?  
|
| Yes to the last question.  

Oh.  It never occurs to me write to these morons.  Perhaps I should.

|                            In light of the recent invasions,
| I've adopted policiy of hitting n on all cross-posted
| aricles, irrespective of topic, author, or newsgroups
| involved.  That means about 80% of the content of soc.motss
| for the past couple weeks.

I've described already how I read articles: I scan the first
paragraph and, more often than not, hit "n" without reading
more; if a boring thread develops, I hit "k" and junk all the 
articles.  Most of the articles that are cross-posted here
don't bother me, but for some reason I've been irritated no
end by the banning private discrimination thing, and I've
been offended -- yes, offended -- by the gay/lesbian characters
on TV thread.  That might have to do with my conviction that
television sitcoms and the like are unutterably stupid, and,
what's more, heterosexist to the core.

--Arne
From: rjwill6@PacBell.COM (Rod Williams)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: Olympics
Date: 28 Jul 92 17:34:17 GMT
Article-I.D.: PacBell.1992Jul28.173417.4249
Organization: Pacific * Bell, San Francisco

> shore@theory.TC.Cornell.EDU (Melinda Shore) writes:
>
>Another gay U.S. rider is dressage star Robert Dover.  The
>dressage competition is next week.

Anyone notice does he dressage on the left or the right?
-- 
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
rod williams -=- pacific bell -=- san francisco -=- rjwill6@pacbell.com
Newsgroups: soc.motss,talk.politics.misc,alt.individualism,alt.activism,misc.legal
From: thf2@ellis.uchicago.edu (Ted Frank)
Subject: Volitional Action
Followup-To: misc.legal
Reply-To: thf2@midway.uchicago.edu
Organization: University of Chicago Computing Organizations
Date: Thu, 30 Jul 1992 17:25:02 GMT

In article <l7g6qsINN97o@spim.mips.com> mpolen@gelato.mips.com (Michael Polen) writes:
>|> 	The appropriate analogy is having a competitor's business
>|> burned down by thugs.  It is clearly criminal if _you_ do it, but if
>|> you are not involved, you will probably benefit and that is not
>|> criminal.  The whole point is that moral culpability requires some
>|> volitional action.
>|> 
>But if the business person, through inaction, allows thugs to get away
>with burning the businesses of his competitors, that is volitional
>action (or volitional inaction).  

But not illegal.
-- 
                      ....................................
                      ted frank | thf2@midway.uchicago.edu
                      the university of chicago law school 
                      official member of the cultural elit
Newsgroups: soc.motss,talk.politics.misc,alt.individualism,alt.activism
From: garvin+@cs.cmu.edu (Susan Garvin)
Subject: Re: Gayspace
Date: Wed, 29 Jul 92 04:16:19 GMT
Organization: School of Computer Science, Carnegie Mellon


Just out of curiosity, I wonder if Edman responded in the same way
to the civil rights monument in Alabama.

Susan
Newsgroups: soc.motss,talk.politics.misc,alt.individualism,alt.activism
From: rjbodkin@theory.lcs.mit.edu (Ronald Bodkin)
Subject: Re: On Banning Private Discrimination
Organization: MIT Lab for Computer Science
	<1992Jul24.171336.24814@amhux2.amherst.edu>
	<1992Jul24.203833.28750@decvax.dec.com>
	<1992Jul25.231038.4215@queernet.org>
Date: Thu, 30 Jul 1992 17:10:05 GMT

In article <1992Jul25.231038.4215@queernet.org> rogerk@queernet.org (Roger B.A. Klorese) writes:
   >Of course whether or not they had any part in the creation of that inequality 
   >is totally irrelevant. Is that what your saying?? 

   Yes.  If they do not actively and visibly reject it and work to eliminate
   it, every minute of every day, you are recreating it and are to blame for
       ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^   
   it...

	I agree that it is necessary to show the moral courage to
stand up to prejudice and to reject it.  But what of "work to
eliminate it, every minute of every day?"  It is absurd to suggest
that it is morally incumbent on people to make their primary goal
altruistic service to society.  And even if this is their primary
goal, there are many other problems worthy of addressing.  This
standard, if I may call it such, is truly perverse.

		Ron
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: shore@dinah.tc.cornell.edu (Melinda Shore)
Subject: Re: RFD: Still in print?
Reply-To: shore@tc.cornell.edu
Organization: Cornell Theory Center
Date: Fri, 31 Jul 1992 16:29:01 GMT

In article <1992Jul31.015806.12687@amhux2.amherst.edu>, twpierce@amhux1.amherst.edu (Tim Pierce) writes:
| For those like me who grew up in the city and never had anything to do
| with such bohunk things as, oh, farms, RFD is a REAL postal
| abbreviation, and Route Free Delivery is its REAL meaning.
  
| I think.

Actually, its real REAL meaning is "rural free delivery."
-- 
       Melinda Shore - Cornell Theory Center - shore@tc.cornell.edu
From: drp@dosbears.UUCP (David R. Preston)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: Engineer bashing
Date: 22 Jul 92 19:14:28 GMT
Reply-To: drp@dosbears.uucp
Organization: DosBears

In article <1992Jul21.191020.29010@spdcc.com> dyer@spdcc.com (Steve Dyer) writes:
>eric.hunt@matrix.sbs.com (Eric Hunt) writes:
>: It's called "Go to a Liberal Arts College" - I know, I'm at one. I'm CIS, 
>: but the mind reels at the humanities and arts classes I'm required to 
>: take.
>
>Colleges which teach humanities on a level higher than "basketweaving"
>are generally thought to be _good_ places.  What's your problem with it?

I'm certainly glad I got my BS at a liberal arts college. One of the
goals of any undergraduate program should be a well-rounded education,
whether you're getting a BA or a BS. If you just want to learn a trade,
go to one of those six-month trade schools.

--
       David R. Preston  drp@dosbears.uucp dosbears@netcom.com
          We're here, we're bored, but we won't be ignored!
   B4 f+ t- k+ s-/+ r P8/4 S6 b+/- g- l-/+ y- z/! n o+/++ x a+ u v-- j++
          D. R. Preston 584 Castro St. #614 SF CA 94114 USA
Newsgroups: soc.motss,talk.politics.misc,alt.individualism,alt.activism
From: archer@utkux1.utk.edu (T. Archer)
Subject: Moral Culpability
Organization: University of Tennessee Division of Continuing Education
Date: Fri, 31 Jul 1992 18:48:04 GMT

In article <l7j113INN4cr@spim.mips.com> mpolen@gelato.mips.com (Michael Polen) writes:

>In article <archer.240@utkux1.utk.edu>, archer@utkux1.utk.edu (T. Archer) writes:
>|> In article <l7g6qsINN97o@spim.mips.com> mpolen@gelato.mips.com (Michael Polen) writes:
>|> 
>|> >|> 
>|> >|>     The appropriate analogy is having a competitor's business
>|> >|> burned down by thugs.  It is clearly criminal if _you_ do it, but if
>|> >|> you are not involved, you will probably benefit and that is not
>|> >|> criminal.  The whole point is that moral culpability requires some
>|> >|> volitional action.
>|> >|> 
>|> >But if the business person, through inaction, allows thugs to get away
>|> >with burning the businesses of his competitors, that is volitional
>|> >action (or volitional inaction).  
>|> 
>|> Uh uh.  It is not the responsabilty of private individuals to enforce the 
>|> law.

>Since when.  It is the responsibility of citizens to create and manage a
>police force to enforce the laws.  Those citizens through pay, hiring
>practices, perq's, and compliments, direct their police force to enforce
>the laws they want enforced in the way they want them enforced.

You are changing the subject.  The issue I was attempting to address was the 
moral culpability of an individual private citizen who declines to become 
directly involved in the law enforcement process.  It is not hte 
responsability of private individuals to enforce the law.

>The problem with libertarians is that they think of government as *them*
>and want to do away with government.  But government is just a label for
>the collection of services we band together to provide.  Whatever replaces
>*them* will still be government.

No, libertarians do not wish to do away with government.  They want 
government intrusion into private affairs limited to the absolute bare 
minimum possible for society to function.  The services *we* band together 
to provide are current being coerced from people who do not wish to take 
part in them.  

-=-=-
T. Archer  PA142548@utkvm1.utk.edu
University of Tennessee
"Vote Dempublican, it's easier than thinking." -- Unknown
-=-=-
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: buckmr@aix.rpi.edu (Ron Buckmire)
Subject: Re: Editor-in-Chief of THE ADVOCATE Resigns!
Date: Wed, 29 Jul 1992 22:27:50 GMT

hsu@sp24.csrd.uiuc.edu (William Tsun-Yuk Hsu) writes:

>For reasonably up-to-date l/g/b news, there's Pacifica radio's This
>Way Out. I'm sure there's a hip radio station in Portland that runs it.
>(After all, we run it in Champaign, and get lots of support for it.)
Hmm, What are the call letters of the Champaign, IL radio station that
carries it? I've been trying to find out which statios in the US carry the
radio show. I'm acting as an unofficial intern for the show while I'm in LA
(where it's based). I have heard that the show can not be heard in Boston or
Cambridge on any of their many radio stations. That seems weird. Anyone
know for sure?


-- 
RON BUCKMIRE
The Anna Quindlen Fan Club
54 Colvin Circle, Troy, NY 12180-3735
uunet!rpi.edu!buckmr||buckmr@rpitsmts.bitnet||buckmr@rpi.edu||+1 518 276 8919
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: rjwill6@PacBell.COM (Rod Williams)
Subject: Re: I HATE GAY MEN.
Organization: Pacific * Bell, San Francisco
Date: Thu, 30 Jul 1992 23:40:25 GMT

> shore@tc.cornell.edu (Melinda Shore) writes:

>                 ...I sometimes suspect that men are 
>taught that their identity lies in their masculinity,
>whereas we women are taught that femininity is something
>to hide behind and is more of a facade than an identity.  
>I dunno.

There may be something in that.  I'm reminded about
a recent article somewhere about male-on-male rape,
and the infrequency with which it is reported.  In
a survey of male college students (?), a large number
said, in all sincerity, that rape would be the worst
thing that could possibly happen to them, that they
would rather die than be raped, and that they would
tell no one about it if they were raped.
-- 
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
rod williams -=- pacific bell -=- san francisco -=- rjwill6@pacbell.com
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: ry@cbnewsl.cb.att.com (ryerson.schwark)
Subject: Re: the darkness in my heart
Organization: UNIX System Laboratories, Summit, NJ
Date: Tue, 21 Jul 1992 19:46:58 GMT

In article <14g34iINNki4@agate.berkeley.edu> kimpl@soda.berkeley.edu (peter lee kim) writes:
>
>i thank you all.  i thank you for being here in soc.motss.  i thank you
>for being in San Francisco, Stonewall, New York, LA, and every place
>in the world.  i thank you for letting me know that i was never and will
>never be without a community.  but that dark and as yet unhealed part
>of me still cries, "Where were you when i needed you?"

We were here.  We have always been here.  Since before time was counted
we have been here, walkers between worlds.  Shamans, Perverts, Godesses,
Heretics, Healers, and more.  Our ancient eyes watch as they always
have, and we stood next to you with arms outstreched waiting for you to
open your terror-striken eyes and reach out to us.

Ry Schwark
ry@usl.com