HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: kinyon@next3.corp.mot.com (John J. Kinyon)
Subject: Re: NeXT help: newmbox - length of mbox. != spool mailbox length!!
Reply-To: kinyon@next3.corp.mot.com
Organization: MOTOROLA 
Date: Thu, 27 Aug 1992 21:08:31 GMT

In article <1992Aug24.204413.21484@DSI.COM> syd@DSI.COM (Syd Weinstein) writes:
>  kinyon@next3.corp.mot.com (John J. Kinyon) writes:
>  >I am having trouble with a big mailbox.  Is there a quick fix, or do I
>  >really have to read/save/delete some messages.  I suspect that there is
>  >a limit of 4 MB for the mail spool or temporary file.  Here is the error
>  >message:
>  
>  
>  >	secadm% elm
>  
>  >	Reading in /usr/spool/mail/kinyon, message: 896
>  >	newmbox - length of mbox. != spool mailbox length!!
>  
>  >	Write to temp file failed, exiting leaving mailbox intact!
>  Most likely this message has nothing to with file length limites
>  (unless you run a small ulimit) but more likely there is a 
>  null byte in the mailbox, and 2.3 chokes on binaries (null bytes).
>  
>  2.4 will be more tolerant of this.
>  -- 
>  ========================================================================
>  Sydney S. Weinstein, CDP, CCP          Elm Coordinator - Current 2.3PL11

The problem turned out to be not the filesize (that was set to 'unlimited')
but 'datasize' which was set to 4 MB.  Datasize is "the maximum growth of
the data+stack region via sbrk(2) beyond the end of the program text".
From: westes@netcom.com (Will Estes)
Newsgroups: comp.mail.elm
Subject: How do I change default print command?
Date: 28 Aug 92 05:18:33 GMT
Organization: Mail Group


How can I change the default command that elm executes when
printing a file? Does elm send the mail item as standard input to
the command?

-- 
Thanks,
Will Estes		Internet: westes@netcom.com
From: gridley@toe.CS.Berkeley.EDU (Frank Gehrke)
Newsgroups: comp.mail.elm
Subject: aliases under SCO ODT
Date: 27 Aug 92 16:43:26 GMT
Organization: University of California at Berkeley
NNTP-Posting-Host: toe.cs.berkeley.edu

Try as I may, I am unable to get the aliases function
to work withn elm23pl11. I have a valid, at least new-
alias doesn't spit back any errors, alias file. But when
I attempt to use an aliase, it does not function. BTW, the
(l)ist does list the alias.test file so I don't think its 
a path problem. 

If suggestions are e-mail pleas use:
gridley@snow.water.ca.gov

Thanks
From: tim@crash.canon.co.uk
Newsgroups: comp.mail.elm
Subject: Re: custom message-ids
Date: 4 Sep 92 18:12:48 GMT
Organization: me myself and i

Much as I hate to follow up to my own articles...

In <92Sep01.1346.2636@nlserver.canon.co.uk>, I asked:
:
|Does elm allow you to generate your own Message-IDs? I ask because I'd
|like to have the Message-ID in the copy that I keep of outbound messages.

Well, if I'd RTFM then I would have seen that backquotes are evaluated
in the *elmheaders* file, well, something like one per line anyway (not
real backquote evaluation -- it looks like everything following the
second backquote is ignored on the line). I really wanted to do:

Message-Id: <`date +%y%h%d.%H%M.$$$USER@``hostname`.`domainname`>

but because of the limited backquote evaluation I ended up doing:

Message-Id: `date +\<%y%h%d.%H%M.$$$USER@canon.co.uk\>`

ie, I hard wired in my domain. I could have written a script to wrap
around the multiple backquoted things but that was going a bit too far.

Tx. [apologies for asking a question whose answer i should have known]
--
check my header - travelling hard at the speed of thought
From: larryp@sco.COM (Larry Philps)
Newsgroups: comp.mail.elm
Subject: Re: SCO Unix v3.2.2 and Elm v2.3 woes
Date: 31 Aug 92 13:47:13 GMT
Organization: SCO Canada, Inc.

In <1992Aug30.143831.19268@DSI.COM> syd@DSI.COM (Syd Weinstein) writes:
> marekp@generic.uucp (Marek Pawlowski) writes:
> >   Having ELM Version 2.3 installed (seemingly) correctly, we were all
> >impressed by it's power and quality.  However, if any user other than
> >root tries to send mail (by replying, or composing from scratch) the
> >following error message intrudes on the user's screen, and the message is
> >not sent.  Any ideas or help would be appreciated!  (And yes, the elm
> >binary is setuid' to root :-?).
> > 
> >submit: [ Permission denied ] Unable to change directory.
> >submit: message submission aborted
> This is the well known problem where SCO distributed the directories
> with the wrong permissions.  Run the MMDF script checkup and follow its
> instructions to change some of the directory permissions.  Then Elm will
> work much better.

Just to clarify, the name of the program to run is /usr/mmdf/bin/checkup.
Fix the things it complains about, and your problem will disappear.

> Secondly, Elm need not be Setuid root.  SCO UNIX, being a SysV UNIX,
> Elm should be setgid mail, with /usr/mail being group mail and permissions
> 775.  Thats all Elm needs, there is no reason for it to be setuid root.

Actually no.  SCO MMDF by default uses "fcntl" file locking, and for
that elm needs to be neither setuid root nor setgid mail.  In order to
get fcntl file locking support for ELM 2.3 PL11, you need an unofficial
patch.  I have posted/mail this to many people of the last couple of
years.  If you do not have it, send me mail, and I will get you a copy.

---
#include <std/disclaimer>

Larry Philps,	 SCO Canada, Inc.
Postman:  130 Bloor St. West, 10th floor, Toronto, Ontario.  M5S 1N5
InterNet: larryp@sco.COM
UUCP:	  {uunet,utcsri,sco}!scocan!larryp
Phone:	  (416) 922-1937
From: fish@daacdev1.stx.com
Newsgroups: comp.mail.elm
Subject: Re: How do I change default print command?
Date: 28 Aug 92 18:41:45 GMT
Organization: Goddard Space Flight Center

westes@netcom.com (Will Estes) writes:

>How can I change the default command that elm executes when
>printing a file? Does elm send the mail item as standard input to
>the command?
hit the 'o' options menu and see the P)rint option
or just look in you .elm/elmrc file if you have one
--
John R. Vanderpool                INTERNET: fish@daacdev1.stx.com
NASA/GSFC                         VOX: 301-513-1683                
Hughes/STX Corporation            FAX: 301-513-1608
"arcadian driftwood, gypsy tailwind; they call my home, the land of snow" -jrr
From: jeffo@uiuc.edu (J.B. Nicholson-Owens)
Newsgroups: comp.mail.elm
Subject: Annoying frivolous redraw on newmail scan
Date: 2 Sep 92 17:07:44 GMT
Article-I.D.: news.BtynKy.8qD
Reply-To: jeffo@uiuc.edu (J.B. Nicholson-Owens)
Organization: University of Illinois at Urbana

In ELM v2., there is a rather annoying redraw of the screen every time the  
program checks for new mail.  Even if the program hasn't found any new  
mail (and thus, has nothing to change on the user's screen), the screen is  
redrawn.

This wouldn't be annoying except for the fact that many people, among them  
myself, open a window or screen for ELM and then put it in the background  
with just a little flag to tell us whether the screen has changed or not.   
For example, using Stuart on the NeXT computer, if you miniaturize a  
window, the icon turns grey when something on that window has changed.   
ELM's redraw sets off that change and after one interval of the time to  
check for new mail has passed, the terminal's flag is turned to "on".

Since it really isn't necessary to redraw anything unless new mail has  
actually been received, why not change ELM so that it won't redraw the  
whole screen just to update nothing?

Thanks.
--
-- Jeff (jeffo@uiuc.edu)
-- no NeXTmail please
Newsgroups: comp.mail.elm
From: dougs@david.wheaton.edu (Doug Smith - SGA)
Subject: Why don't my arrow keys work
Organization: Wheaton College, IL
Date: Thu, 27 Aug 1992 22:07:19 GMT

I can't get the up and down arrow keys of my Wyse 50 terminal to work in
the message list.  It works fine under the vt100 emulator I'm using on my
Mac.  Any idea why?
Newsgroups: comp.mail.elm
From: jim@cusa (Jim Hood)
Subject: Which ftp site was that??
Date: Tue, 01 Sep 1992 22:51:07 GMT
Organization: Cusa Inc.  Salt Lake City Utah, USA

Forgive the questions as they are probably asked several times a week, 
but I haven't been reading the group lately.

The version of ELM that we are running is probably a year old.  I have 
limited ftp access, and would like to ftp the newest version over.
What ftp site (and what directory at that ftp site) contains the
latest version of ELM.

ALSO....  
The reason for looking for a NEW version is that the old version does
not seem to compile on the RS6000.  (At least several of us have tried
with not success).  Does the most recent version work on the RS6000?
(It will be running 2.x version of AIX and not the old 1.5.x)

Thanks...

Please replay via mail to:
uplherc.upl.com!neb!cusa!jim

-jim
*******************************************************************************
* Jim Hood  Mail: ..!uplherc.upl.com!neb!cusa!jim   (Work: Cusa Inc  SLC Ut)  *
*******************************************************************************
*     Or reach me at Nebula BBS - Public access Unix BBS (801)-967-8072       *
*           Telebit WorldBlazer's online are v.32/v.42(bis)/PEP               *
*******************************************************************************
From: tim@crash.canon.co.uk
Newsgroups: comp.mail.elm
Subject: Re: Outgoing/sent filters - do they exist? (was Re: Filter only?)
Date: 3 Sep 92 08:17:47 GMT
Organization: me myself and i

karres@enigma.rtp.dg.com (Dean Karres) writes:
:
|I would like to keep an automatic log of all of my incoming and outgoing
|mail. What I would really like is to be able to do is:
|
|1) save the FROM, TO, DATE and SUBJECT info of all incoming and
|   outward bound mail to a file.
|
|2) save a copy of all incoming and outgoing mail into a single archive
|   folder.
|
|3) still have incoming messages come to my inbox as though there were
|   not any filters.

2 and 3 first. Logging all incoming mail to a single folder can be done
via .forward, eg:

\karres,/user/karres/Mail/folder

and you could also use sentmail=/user/karres/Mail/folder within elm to
log your outgoing stuff (setting autocopy=ON and savename=OFF).

Now 1: logging From, To, Date and Subject is partly[*] done for you by
procmail for incoming mail (ask archie about procmail). The log looks
like:

From root  Sat Aug 29 23:59:02 1992
 Subject: /etc/cre/bin/syslog-conmon for Aug 29 on crash
  Folder: /usr/spool/mail/tim                                               324

[*]I say "partly" because the date is the received date rather than the
sent date.

You can do virtually anything in procmail so you could write your own
filter which stripped and logged whatever you wanted out of incoming
messages. I have one which bounces mail back automatically at
"undesirables" but that's another story.

As for a similar log for outgoing mail, well, I don't think elm lets
you get down there. I'm new to elm so don't quote me on that. It would
be nice if elm had a sendmail variable like Berkeley mail. Maybe in the
next version huh?

Tx.
--
check my header - travelling hard at the speed of thought
From: fish@daacdev1.stx.com
Newsgroups: comp.mail.elm
Subject: Re: Creating A Form (???)
Date: 26 Aug 92 15:48:55 GMT
Organization: Goddard Space Flight Center

nkhawand@unlinfo.unl.edu (nancy khawand) writes:

>I am trying to create an ELM form letter.  As the manual states,
>I have modified set the variable forms in my .elm/elmrc file to
>ON.  Next I try sending a message and once in the editor I read
>in my form into the message.  Finally I exit the editor, but I
>don't see the M)ake form prompt, and 'm' doesn't do anything
>either.  What am I doing wrong?
> 
i discovered this too a few weeks ago - i hope it might get straightened
out in elm 2.4 - but what happens is that if you user-level is set to
beginner you don't get the 'm' option!  so up your user level to intermediate
in elmrc

			fish
--
John R. Vanderpool                INTERNET: fish@daacdev1.stx.com
NASA/GSFC                         VOX: 301-513-1683                
Hughes/STX Corporation            FAX: 301-513-1608
"arcadian driftwood, gypsy tailwind; they call my home, the land of snow" -jrr
Xref: sparky comp.mail.elm:2221 comp.os.os2.misc:28229
Newsgroups: comp.mail.elm,comp.os.os2.misc
From: des@frogland.inmos.co.uk (David Shepherd)
Subject: Re: Elm signature files under OS/2
Organization: INMOS architecture group
Date: Wed, 26 Aug 92 10:59:41 BST

In article <1992Aug24.005239.22277@random.ccs.northeastern.edu>, steck@ccs.northeastern.edu (Paul Steckler) writes:
>I'm running Elm 2.3 PL 11 under OS/2 2.0.
>
>The files that I specify under "remotesignature" and "localsignature"
>in my elmrc never appear in my editor when sending a message.
>My editor is a DOS editor, if this is any consideration.
>Elm has no problems finding the shell, the print command, and
>the editor.  Elm does not complain that it can't find the file.
>Clues, anyone?

this holds if elm is compiled with EMX/GCC

??? just a thought ... have you got \'s or /'s in the
path name for the sig files ... try both to see if
either works. i think elm probably generates a prototype
message file itself ... in which case you need /'s as
the file is read inside EMX code which uses UNIX-like
filenames.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------
david shepherd: des@inmos.co.uk or des@inmos.com    tel: 0454-616616 x 625
                inmos ltd, 1000 aztec west, almondsbury, bristol, bs12 4sq
                "i don't consider myself to be narcissitic .... if i had a
                 role model from mythology it would be zeus" - woody allen
From: kadams@relay.nswc.navy.mil (Kevin Adams)
Newsgroups: comp.mail.elm
Subject: Problem using Elm over serial lines
Date: 2 Sep 92 17:14:10 GMT
Reply-To: kadams@relay.nswc.navy.mil
Organization: Naval Surface Warfare Center, Dahlgren Division

I have built Elm version 2.3 on a Sparc 630MP.  It works great over a xterm, 
but when terminal users or dial-up pc users try to access elm, the screen is 
jumbled.  The keys function correctly, it is just the way the information is 
displayed on the screen.  Does anyone have any suggestions as to what I am 
doing wronge.

Thanks in advance,
-- 
Kevin Adams
Naval Surface Warfare Center 
Dahlgren Division
Code E51
(703) 663-7009
kadams@europa.nswc.navy.mil
From: syd@DSI.COM (Syd Weinstein)
Newsgroups: comp.mail.elm
Subject: Re: Elm 2.4... When?
Date: 29 Aug 92 03:13:07 GMT
Reply-To: syd@DSI.COM
Organization: Datacomp Systems, Inc.  Huntingdon Valley, PA

swlodin@kocrsv01.delcoelect.com (Steve Lodin) writes:
>Not to bitch, complain, or flame, but I see alot of "It is fixed in
>the upcoming 2.4 release".  I've been holding off on installation of
>elm on a couple hundred Suns.  Again, when can we expect it?
The goal is something near Oct 1, 1992, but, one never knows,
we're already about a year late...
-- 
========================================================================
Sydney S. Weinstein, CDP, CCP          Elm Coordinator - Current 2.3PL11
Datacomp Systems, Inc.                 Projected 2.4 Release: Oct 1,1992
syd@DSI.COM or dsinc!syd      Voice: (215) 947-9900, FAX: (215) 938-0235
Newsgroups: comp.mail.elm
From: dlucy@sandr.COM (Douglas Lucy)
Subject: Re: SCO Unix v3.2.2 and Elm v2.3 woes (new question)
Organization: S&R Software, Inc.
Date: Wed, 02 Sep 1992 17:57:23 GMT
Summary: Why can't I just use execmail?

In article <1992Aug31.134713.14922@sco.COM> larryp@sco.COM (Larry Philps)
writes:

> In <1992Aug30.143831.19268@DSI.COM> syd@DSI.COM (Syd Weinstein) writes:

> > marekp@generic.uucp (Marek Pawlowski) writes:

> > > if any user other than root tries to send mail (by replying, or
> > > composing from scratch) the following error message intrudes
> > > 
> > > submit: [ Permission denied ] Unable to change directory.
> > > submit: message submission aborted

> > This is the well known problem where SCO distributed the directories
> > with the wrong permissions.  Run the MMDF script checkup and follow its
> > instructions to change some of the directory permissions.  Then Elm will
> > work much better.
> 
> Just to clarify, the name of the program to run is /usr/mmdf/bin/checkup.
> Fix the things it complains about, and your problem will disappear.

Um, I may be really stupid, but I changed the mail program in the ELM
2.3 PL11 Configure script to "/usr/lib/mail/execmail" and everything
(at least that I've noticed) works fine.

Am I doing something REALLY dumb or did I stumble on a working
solution that has no adverse side effects?
-- 
[ W. Douglas Lucy, VP Technical Services, S and R Software, Inc. ]
[ dlucy@sandr.COM                                                ]
Newsgroups: comp.mail.elm
From: syd@DSI.COM (Syd Weinstein)
Subject: Re: [encode] Decryption does not work in ELM 2.3 PL11! Why ? [clear]
Keywords: encryption, decryption, encode, clear.
Reply-To: syd@DSI.COM
Organization: Datacomp Systems, Inc.  Huntingdon Valley, PA
Distribution: usa
Date: Fri, 28 Aug 1992 18:37:22 GMT

satish@wan486.ColumbiaSC.NCR.COM (Satish K. Swarnkar) writes:

>	Recently I found a problem with encrypted mail. To me it looks like
>	BUG (though not sure). Some times if you have a encrypted message
>	the decryption does not take place properly.
There is, on some systems, a signed/unsigned conflict in this code that
causes problems.  This has been fixed for the upcoming 2.4 release.
-- 
========================================================================
Sydney S. Weinstein, CDP, CCP          Elm Coordinator - Current 2.3PL11
Datacomp Systems, Inc.                 Projected 2.4 Release: Oct 1,1992
syd@DSI.COM or dsinc!syd      Voice: (215) 947-9900, FAX: (215) 938-0235
From: syd@DSI.COM (Syd Weinstein)
Newsgroups: comp.mail.elm
Subject: Re: SCO Unix v3.2.2 and Elm v2.3 woes
Date: 30 Aug 92 14:38:31 GMT
Article-I.D.: DSI.1992Aug30.143831.19268
Reply-To: syd@DSI.COM
Organization: Datacomp Systems, Inc.  Huntingdon Valley, PA

marekp@generic.uucp (Marek Pawlowski) writes:
>   Having ELM Version 2.3 installed (seemingly) correctly, we were all
>impressed by it's power and quality.  However, if any user other than
>root tries to send mail (by replying, or composing from scratch) the
>following error message intrudes on the user's screen, and the message is
>not sent.  Any ideas or help would be appreciated!  (And yes, the elm
>binary is setuid' to root :-?).
> 
>submit: [ Permission denied ] Unable to change directory.
>submit: message submission aborted
This is the well known problem where SCO distributed the directories
with the wrong permissions.  Run the MMDF script checkup and follow its
instructions to change some of the directory permissions.  Then Elm will
work much better.
 
Secondly, Elm need not be Setuid root.  SCO UNIX, being a SysV UNIX,
Elm should be setgid mail, with /usr/mail being group mail and permissions
775.  Thats all Elm needs, there is no reason for it to be setuid root.

>   PS:  We have MMDF installed (do we really have a choice?  :)
Yes, you could drop MMDF and switch to sendmail (real one, like 
IDA Sendmail) or smail 3.1.  Or you could stay with MMDF.... Properly
configured it does work.
-- 
========================================================================
Sydney S. Weinstein, CDP, CCP          Elm Coordinator - Current 2.3PL11
Datacomp Systems, Inc.                 Projected 2.4 Release: Oct 1,1992
syd@DSI.COM or dsinc!syd      Voice: (215) 947-9900, FAX: (215) 938-0235
Newsgroups: comp.mail.elm
From: rommel@Informatik.TU-Muenchen.DE (Kai-Uwe Rommel)
Subject: Re: [encode] Decryption does not work in ELM 2.3 PL11! Why ? [clear]
Keywords: encryption, decryption, encode, clear.
Organization: Technische Universitaet Muenchen, Germany
Date: Sat, 29 Aug 1992 06:47:20 GMT
Distribution: usa

In article <1992Aug28.183722.24503@DSI.COM> syd@DSI.COM writes:
>satish@wan486.ColumbiaSC.NCR.COM (Satish K. Swarnkar) writes:
>
>>	Recently I found a problem with encrypted mail. To me it looks like
>>	BUG (though not sure). Some times if you have a encrypted message
>>	the decryption does not take place properly.
>There is, on some systems, a signed/unsigned conflict in this code that
>causes problems.  This has been fixed for the upcoming 2.4 release.

Since 2.4 is mentioned so often, when can we expect it? If it is longer
away, could you please tell us the fix for this specific problem?

I have ported elm 2.3.11 to OS/2 in the past and do also have problems
with encrypted mail. It does only work among OS/2 machines, not to/from
Unix boxes although I use the crypt routine from the BSD NET-2 release.

Kai Uwe Rommel

/* Kai Uwe Rommel --- rommel@informatik.tu-muenchen.de */

DOS ... is still a real mode only non-reentrant interrupt
handler, and always will be.                -Russell Williams
From: chrisp@MADMAX.INTERLAN.COM (Chris P. (Emacs kicks!))
Newsgroups: comp.mail.elm
Subject: ELM Makefile errors under AT&T System V 3.2
Date: 31 Aug 92 18:12:11 GMT


Hello, I receive the following errors when trying to 'make' ELM under an AT&T
System V 3.2 system:
==============================================================================

Too many command lines for `/usr2/np622/root//usr/bin/answer'
$! nulled, predecessor circle
Too many command lines for `/usr2/np622/root//usr/bin/arepdaemon'
$! nulled, predecessor circle
Too many command lines for `/usr2/np622/root//usr/bin/autoreply'
$! nulled, predecessor circle
Too many command lines for `/usr2/np622/root//usr/bin/checkalias'
$! nulled, predecessor circle
Too many command lines for `/usr2/np622/root//usr/bin/fastmail'
$! nulled, predecessor circle
Too many command lines for `/usr2/np622/root//usr/bin/frm'
$! nulled, predecessor circle
Too many command lines for `/usr2/np622/root//usr/bin/listalias'
$! nulled, predecessor circle
Too many command lines for `/usr2/np622/root//usr/bin/messages'
$! nulled, predecessor circle
Too many command lines for `/usr2/np622/root//usr/bin/newalias'
$! nulled, predecessor circle
Too many command lines for `/usr2/np622/root//usr/bin/newmail'
$! nulled, predecessor circle
Too many command lines for `/usr2/np622/root//usr/bin/printmail'
$! nulled, predecessor circle
Too many command lines for `/usr2/np622/root//usr/bin/readmsg'
$! nulled, predecessor circle
mv: cannot access /usr2/np622/root//usr/bin/elm
Too many command lines for `/usr2/np622/root//usr/bin/answer'
Too many command lines for `/usr2/np622/root//usr/bin/arepdaemon'
Too many command lines for `/usr2/np622/root//usr/bin/autoreply'
Too many command lines for `/usr2/np622/root//usr/bin/checkalias'
Too many command lines for `/usr2/np622/root//usr/bin/fastmail'
Too many command lines for `/usr2/np622/root//usr/bin/frm'
Too many command lines for `/usr2/np622/root//usr/bin/listalias'
Too many command lines for `/usr2/np622/root//usr/bin/messages'
Too many command lines for `/usr2/np622/root//usr/bin/newalias'
Too many command lines for `/usr2/np622/root//usr/bin/newmail'
Too many command lines for `/usr2/np622/root//usr/bin/printmail'
Too many command lines for `/usr2/np622/root//usr/bin/readmsg'
===============================================================================
Does anyone know what is causing this and/or how I can fix it? the binaries
are still created but my boss insists that the make be error free..

Thanks
-Chris Patti
feoh@gnu.ai.mit.edu
chrisp@madmax.interlan.com
From: tim@crash.canon.co.uk
Newsgroups: comp.mail.elm
Subject: custom message-ids
Date: 1 Sep 92 12:47:03 GMT
Organization: me myself and i

Does elm allow you to generate your own Message-IDs? I ask because I'd
like to have the Message-ID in the copy that I keep of outbound messages.

Tx. [apologies if faq]
--
check my header - "when the time runs out... when the money runs out..."
Newsgroups: comp.mail.elm
From: schwartz@ipx08 (Privataccount Roman Schwartz)
Subject: elm: quoting prefix
Organization: PPG Hellige, Freiburg, GERMANY
X-Newsreader: Tin 1.1 PL4
Date: Thu, 27 Aug 1992 14:34:07 GMT

Hi,
how to change the quiting prefix in elm? Is there a compilation necessary or
is there any config-file? 
--

Roman Schwartz                       email: schwartz%ppgfr.uucp@Germany.EU.net  
Newsgroups: comp.mail.elm