HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: dwr2560@zeus.tamu.edu (RING, DAVID WAYNE)
Newsgroups: rec.games.go
Subject: Re: Official rating discussion (was: Change my strength?)
Date: 23 Nov 1992 22:33 CST
Organization: Texas A&M University, Academic Computing Services
Distribution: world
NNTP-Posting-Host: zeus.tamu.edu
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41    

jlzhong@vision.csl.uiuc.edu (Jialin Zhong) writes...
>>>No, I won't want to block the way of any system that most of the igsers
>>>support to implement. However, I can foresee a lot of people will start
>>>to critisize your new more restricted system as soon as it starts.
>>Every system proposed so far is 100% optional. How can that possibly be
>				 ^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>>more restrictive? It actually allows people options they didn't have
>>before.
> 
>If the new system is 100% optional, then the rating system on igs will be
>no better than now in your opinion (forgive my presumption) because the
>current rating system is truly 100% optional. The new system will be more
>restricted no matter what option it has, and it will displease some people.

There is not now the option to choose a fair handicap against a player
you have not played before because there is no convenient scale with which
to measure his/your strength. There is not now the option even to know your
own rank.

And there is no option present now that you would lose under the proposed
system. 

It stretches the imagination to suggest that such a system could increase
the restriction. If you find either of the above statements of fact to be
incorrect please be specific.

>Since there are quite a few players that are unsatisfied with current system 
>and push for a new rating system, why don't you guys get together and make a
>group in which you practice what you pray. I don't think you need igs
>operator to start a mailing list. You can report the results of games between
>two group members to a single coordinator and get credit for it. Since 
>you are all quite serious about each game and your official scores as well, 
>there will be unlikely anyone causing trouble and complaining. For other's
>convenience, you can even put something like "I belong to XXXX group and 
>my official score is XXXX". If you are successful, the igs may have to follow 
>your suit due to the snowball effect.

I can't understand why you would _want_ us to do this by email, but
not want us to do the same thing in a much more convenient way. Please
explain. Do you just want to create difficulty for us? Why should
you care how we do it anyway, as long as you have the option to
play by your old way?

>BTW, what I voice here is not only my own feeling. Some other people also
>hold same opinion as well. 

Please suggest that they speak up. We need to get all the truth into the
open. Perhaps one of them can find a reason NOT to have a system, instead
of telling us how silly we are for wanting one.

Just for the record, the system should have the following properties:
1) Players can participate or not, by typing 'toggle ratings'
2) Only games between two participating players will count towards
the ratings formula

Dave Ring (Cdude [unknown rank])
dwr2560@zeus.tamu.edu
From: jwang@eclipse.uwindsor.ca (Ms. Jing Hong (June) Wang)
Newsgroups: rec.games.go
Subject: Re: IGS?
Date: 22 Nov 1992 04:11:14 GMT
Reply-To: jwang@eclipse.uwindsor.ca
Organization: Sun Microsystems, Inc.

In article 1ek20uINNsnr@news.UU.NET, jeff@triryche.UU.NET (Jeff Snider) writes:
>This is the first day I have read this newsgroup.  I am an exceedingly
>amateur player, and have little knowledge of the world of go.
>
>Now that I have qualified my ignorance, I can ask a stupid question
>or two.
>
>What is IGS?
>
>Does anyone play go across the net?  A friend and I played a game, 
>under honor not to get unfair help, through email.  It was fun, but
>cumbersome.
>
>Does anyone know how to find local GO clubs?  I can't even find any
>GO mags in the newsstands here.  There are bound to be some, since
>this is Washington D.C.  They don't even play go at my college.
>
>I have a few friends who play, but we have become tired of playing
>only each other.  None of us are ranked, because none of us know
>of any local clubs.  HELP!
>
>Any advice is appreciated...
>
>--
>Jeff Snider                       Junior AlterNet Engineer 
>snider@uunet.uu.net               uunet!snider

Hi Jeff,

Welcome to this newsgroup. As a matter of fact, I found this newsgroup only 3 days earlier than you. I am glad to tell you what I've known up to now about the world of Go. 

IGS: Internet Go Server;

Play go across the net: use command "telnet icsib18.icsi.berkeley.edu 6969" (DONT forget the
6969)
from any Unix system on the Internet, make up any user name and password
that
you like (and remember for future use), type "help" and the rest is easy.

However, I found the playing is not that convenient either.

There is also a standard ftp site for go-related material: ftp.u.washington.edu
(directory public/go). You will find lots more material in the README and
FAQ(Frequently Asked Questions). 

I got the above informations from John Bate.
From: rjs@citi.umich.edu (Robert J. Skrobola)
Newsgroups: rec.games.go
Subject: Re: Change my strength?
Date: 20 Nov 1992 00:16:11 GMT
Organization: Center for Information Technology Intergration, University of Michigan
Distribution: world
NNTP-Posting-Host: bodwin.citi.umich.edu

In article <1992Nov18.150716.12772@ncsa.uiuc.edu>, rbrown@ncsa.uiuc.edu (Gozilla [2k]) writes:
|> In article <1992Nov18.125355.19278@cc.tut.fi> korkki@cc.tut.fi (Korhonen Mika) writes:
|> >
|> 
|> When my win/loss ratio is near 1 I think my rank is accurate, because against a
|> player of exactly equal strength, I would expect to win half the games.
|> 
|> >Should I change my rank right after the game, or should I wait until I have
|> >played several games? How much sould I change my rank at once?
|> 
|> If I'm winning "a lot" more games than I'm losing, my rank is probably set too
|> low.
|> 
|> If I'm losing "a lot" more games than I'm winning, my rank is probably set too
|> high.
|> 

|> >	Korkki, estimated rank 16k
|> >	email: korkki@cc.tut.fi
I find this a difficult issue. Forgetting variation among games or days, 
I seem to vary wildly depending on strength of opponent. I play 4 stone game
against 7 or 8k and play tough, beat some 15k and lose to others in even game,
and then split games against 20k's. Also, tho I claim 20k, I have trouble beating
25k at 4 or 5 stones.  Very annoying. Had IGS rank at 17k, and then realized
that meant I should be able to beat 25k at 8 or 9 stones. Ug. Oh well, 
the rantings of a hi kyu player...
		Rob 20k 

-- 
-----------------------------------------------------
Rob Skrobola      Institutional File Server Project
Normal Disclaimer: I speak only for myself
-----------------------------------------------------
Newsgroups: rec.games.go
From: koehler@telesoft.com (Stephen C. Koehler @pulsar)
Subject: Go board care
Organization: TeleSoft, San Diego, CA, USA
Date: Sun, 22 Nov 1992 03:25:23 GMT

I would like some advice on the proper care of a thick katsura wood go
board.  I bought this board about 8 years ago, and it was originally
finished with wax.  I have done almost nothing to the board since then, other
than rub it with a cloth occasionally.  I have the following questions:

1.  Is a wax or oil finish better for the board.  What is traditional?
    Is either finish more likely to stain shell stones?

2.  Should the top be finished?  Will that harm the lines?

3.  How does one apply the finish, and how does one care for it later?

4.  Are there any problems in switching from a wax finish to an oil finish?
    How does one go about removing the wax?

-- Steve Koehler ~3 kyu
   koehler@telesoft.com
-- 
-- Steve Koehler                ucbvax--|   hp-sdd--|
   telesoft!koehler@UCSD.ARPA   decvax--+-----ucsd--+--telesoft!koehler
   (619) 457-2700                ihnp4--|  noscvax--|
Date: Sunday, 15 November 1992 05:18:36 PDT
X-Mailer: TMail version 1.06
From: "Anton Dovydaitis" <anton@anton.infoserv.com>
Organization: Ishi Press International
Subject: Re: GO on The Sierra Network
Newsgroups: rec.games.go
Distribution: world

In <1992Nov12.161655.19289@ramon.bgu.ac.il>, ioffe@chen.bgu.ac.il (Alex Ioffe)  wrote:
> 
> Which way is TSN accessible? Via Telnet or Modem?
> May you post it's coordinates.

It's accessable via modem.  You call (voice) 1(800)SIERRA-1 and ask for
a free sign-up kit.  This includes the software and three free hours
to check it out.  The manual has a directory of local access numbers,
which you select once, and then the software dials it automatically for
you thereafter.

Very easy to use.

---
---------------------------------------------------------------

Anton Dovydaitis
Ishi Press International
Newsgroups: rec.games.go
From: jlzhong@focus.csl.uiuc.edu (Jialin Zhong)
Newsgroups: rec.games.go
Subject: Re: Change my strength?
Date: 20 Nov 1992 20:02:26 GMT
Organization: Center for Reliable and High-Performance Computing, University of Illinois at Urbana-Champaign
NNTP-Posting-Host: focus.csl.uiuc.edu

jwang@systolic.uwindsor.ca (Ms. Jing Hong (June) Wang) writes:



>Dear Mr. Only 8d,

>Do I have to remind you that the highest amateur rank is 7d. I wonder how did you get your "8 DUAN" honored. Anyways, I believe you are the best amateur player in the states. 

>You mentioned that there are some good players in Europe. If you know Weidong Chi in France, please give me his address.

>Thanks a lot.

>June

Hi June,

No, you don't have to remind me. Read my post again. You will find out that I
said it was a joke.

Jialin

--
Jialin Zhong		    *   /  l    l        l   l  *    ---O--O--O--O---
1614 Beckman Institute	    *  / l-l-l -l-l l-l -l- -l- *   /--*--*--*--O--O
Urbana, IL 61801	    * /l l-l-l /  l l-l /l\ /l\ *  /--/--*--/--*--O
jlzhong@uirvld.csl.uiuc.edu */ l   l  /  \l    / l X l \* /--/--/--/--/--/
From: kibler@turing.ICS.UCI.EDU (Dennis Kibler)
Subject: Re: Cohen on Total Tricks (was Re: Reopening decision)
Newsgroups: rec.games.bridge
Date: 17 Nov 92 17:21:38 GMT



>I saw a couple rave reviews of this book.  Do you concur?


It's a bit boring at times, and although I knew of the LAW
I had not practiced its application. I think I learned
something - we'll see how it works out.

He makes the case for the LAW in a biased way, by taking
about 20 hands where the experts bid against the LAW and
got the wrong answer. Of course one needs a random selection
of competitive decision to be fair, so his argument doesn't
demonstrate anything.

dennis
Newsgroups: rec.games.bridge
From: geppo@spot.wustl.edu (Giuseppe Bianchi)
Subject: Re: Which inference is better, WAS - "finesse or play for the drop"
Organization: Washington University, St. Louis MO
Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1992 20:43:25 GMT

In article <By11xy.GE6@irvine.com> adam@irvine.com (Adam Beneschan) writes:
>
>Didn't some researcher just determine recently that if you shuffle the
>cards 7 times (I think), that the result will be close to a perfect
>random shuffle?  I remember reading something about this but I don't
>recall the details.  Perhaps someone out there who's familiar with
>this study can enlighten me.
>

I make a public response because maybe that someone else than Adam is
interested.
The number of shuffle required for a deck of n cards is 
k, where k is the smallest exponent that satisfies the rule
      k
     2  >= n

Thus in the case of 52 cards, k=6.  (*** not 7 ***)
This is a well known (old) result mainly used in interconnection network
theory.



How to explain this? suppose, for simplicity, a deck of exactly 64 cards
(the case of 52 can be included - with some work - in this).

At every shuffle, you suppose to operate a PERFECT SHUFFLE permutation,
that is, divide exactly the deck in two parts, and the i-th card of every 
sub-deck (starting the numeration with 0) is supposed to have equal 
probability to go in one of the two position 2*i, 2*i+1 of the shuffled
deck.
For an example, with 8 cards (A, B, ...H), after a shuffle the possible
deck distributions are (A,E),(B,F),(C,G),(D,H), where every pair can be 
taken in both  orders.



Going a little bit further, given an initial card of this 64 card deck
in the position (in binary representation, for simplicity) 
   abcdef   (a...f = 0 or 1)
it is easy to see that, after a perfect shuffle, the next position of this
card is
  bcdefx
with x 0 or 1 with equal probability.
After a second shuffle, the next position will be
  cdefxx
and so on up to the 6th shuffle, where a card starting form a given
position can be found in any else position.
  [with 52 cards, this algorithm must be adapted, and loses the simplicity
   of binary representation]



some examples:
1) if you start with an ace as a first card, after the next shuffle it will
   be equally likely in 1th or 2nd pos, after the second shuffle in one of the 
   first four, and so on.

2) If the ace is the third card of the dech, after the first shuffle it will 
   be 5th or 6th, after the second in 9th, 10th, 11th, 12th, and so on with
   the given permutation rule.




OF COURSE THIS IS THE THEORY!!!!! In reality a hand made shuffle is 
FAR to represent a perfect shuffle permutation (clustering, uneven deck
split, etc).
Thus the minimum number of shuffle must be raised to a certain value 
depending on the type of pseudo-shuffle permutation used (who knows
what is this permutation for a hand shuffle??!!)



BTW: returning to the shuffle generators, a valid and low computational 
     cost shuffle algorithm can be built using 6 runs of perfect shuffle.

Giuseppe.

Newsgroups: rec.games.bridge
From: lsimonse@vipunen.hut.fi (Kenneth Simonsen)
Subject: okb-1.7????
Organization: Helsinki University of Technology, Finland
Date: 20 Nov 92 11:42:10 GMT

Can any one help me with the following problem:
When I write 'make' (to compile okbridge) the computer thinks for a while
and then reports that:
 "terminal.c", line 146.16: 1506-007 (s) struct or union fd-set is undefined

Is there anything I can do?
Might be something about settings before compiling; how should i do them?

Kenneth Simonsen
lsimonse@vipunen.hut.fi
From: shamrake@ccwf.cc.utexas.edu (Danil Suits)
Newsgroups: rec.games.bridge
Subject: A question of Tactics
Date: 19 Nov 92 01:36:17 GMT
Organization: The University of Texas at Austin, Austin TX

You hold:

K98xxxx
AKQxx
--
x

You    RHO     Pard   LHO
1S     P       2S     X
??

How do you plan the rest of the auction?

More specifically, if you plan to shoot out 6S,
is there a good way to encourage a diamond lead?

Danil

-- 
-- The Shamrake --    Zansellquasure  Flamarion
@ccwf.cc.utexas.edu          Bridge Club
From: varvel@cs.utexas.edu (Donald A. Varvel)
Newsgroups: rec.games.bridge
Subject: Re: Another slam not to bid
Date: 18 Nov 1992 21:17:40 -0600
Organization: CS Dept, University of Texas at Austin
NNTP-Posting-Host: coltexo.cs.utexas.edu

In article <Bxxx3x.J34@ais.org> hampton@ais.org (Kevin Podsiadlik) writes:
>At a sectional last weekend:

>West           East
>QJ9743         KT852
>K732           AQJ4
>T63            A52
>-              T

>At pairs, E-W vul, South dealt and opened 3C.  Many pairs, including
>us, could not stop short of 6S, and worse, North at our table doubled on
>Ax T9x KQxx Kxxx, for a quick 500.

I love to get such "pairs players" at IMPs.

>Should West overcall 3S?  

No.  3S should show values.  While it would be nice to be able to compete
with this sort of hand, expert opinion seems to have come around to the
idea that all bids over a preempt (including both simple overcalls and
jumps) should be constructive.  There just isn't room for everything.

>In any case, how should the bidding proceed?
>(Assume North, for some unknown reason, chooses not to interefere.)

3C-p-p-X  p-4S-p and East has to guess.  Since with solid values West might
have bid on the previous round or cuebid, it is at least arguable that East
should pass.  I would find it hard to do myself.

A more reasonable question is how the bidding should go after 3C-p-5C.
Probably a double by East and 5S by West, off 1.  After North passes you
have a chance.  After 5C you really don't.

-- Don Varvel (varvel@cs.utexas.edu)
From: taylor@foraker.NoSubdomain.NoDomain (Eric Taylor)
Newsgroups: rec.games.bridge
Subject: Re: Would you re-open?  (Problem from Jeff Rubens' book)
Date: 20 Nov 92 16:23:42 GMT

In article <1ehi5aINNjvc@im4u.cs.utexas.edu>, varvel@cs.utexas.edu (Donald A. Varvel) writes:
|> In article <1992Nov19.005001.4614@netcom.com> rudy@netcom.com (Rudy) writes:
|> >In article <1992Nov18.204648.18476@midway.uchicago.edu> pynq@midway.uchicago.edu writes:
|> >>Matchpoints, none vul.  You hold: T9xxxx,x,-,xxxxxx
|> >>The auction:
|> 
|> >>LHO	P	RHO	Y
|> >>===	=	===	=
|> >>1D	p	1H	p
|> >>3H	p	p	?
|> 
|> >>	2) Do you bid 3S in:
|> >>		d) A very good field (one of Asya's home games)
|> 
|> >On this type of hand I would very much like to bid 2NT at my first turn
|> >(assuming it's for the unbid suits).  We are white and it takes off the
|> >pressure to decide the second round of the auction.
|> 
|> >[Boy, I sure hope this gets me invited to one of Asya's home games! ;-)]
|> 
|> 
|> Asya!  Do I get to answer this one?  Please?
|> 
|> A *bridge* game?  I doubt it.
|> 
|> You *do* seem to have a rather strong masochistic streak, however ...

A true hair on his chest masochist would have michaeled or
unusual nt'ed at his first opportunuity.  :-)
Newsgroups: rec.games.bridge
From: bs@gauss.mitre.org (Robert D. Silverman)
Subject: Re: bidding problem
Organization: Research Computer Facility, MITRE Corporation, Bedford, MA
Date: Mon, 23 Nov 1992 17:17:58 GMT

In article <1equdeINNob3@transfer.stratus.com> tnh@sw.stratus.com (Tim Hill) writes:
 
stuff deleted.

:As Adam noted, if LHO doesn't lead a trump, you have the needed third
:entry to ruff two hearts and draw trump, so only 6-1 spades, 5-0 clubs, or
:a diamond ruff at trick one will set you.
 
Or diamond lead, finesse loses, diamond ruff. Or on a spade lead;

K wins, A hearts, spade to hand, heart ruff, club to hand, heart ruff.
Now you need to ruff a spade back to hand. If LHO had 2 you can get overruffed,
and if you ruff high a 4-1 trump break can beat you if the diamond hook is
also off.

--
Bob Silverman
These are my opinions and not MITRE's.
Mitre Corporation, Bedford, MA 01730
"You can lead a horse's ass to knowledge, but you can't make him think"
From: bpwing@phoenix.princeton.edu (Ben Wing)
Newsgroups: rec.games.bridge
Date: 17 Nov 92 09:25:57 GMT
Subject: Re: Some problems from the Finnish Pair Championships
Organization: Princeton University
X-Subliminal-Message: You can quit reading news anytime you want.

In article <1992Nov16.081448.17820@nntp.hut.fi> m36150p@kaira.hut.fi (Janne Veikko Petteri Kallunki) writes:
|E/-
|N (you)
|KQ5
|AKQJ
|5
|Q8643
|
|N    E    S    W
|     1S(1)p    p
|D    2D(2)D    p
|?
|
|(1)=0-11 points, free hand
|(2)=5 cards
|
|What do you bid?

Ferts are tricky things to defend against, and the vulnerability makes a
lot of difference.  In this situation, I think it's important that you
state more precisely what your agreements re: fert defense are.  Does
South's initial pass imply or deny anything about point strength?  Is
your double penalty, optional, or takeout?  etc.

With no defensive agreements on your side, you just have to take a wild
shot ...

ben
--

"Can't we all just get along?"
From: adam@irvine.com (Adam Beneschan)
Newsgroups: rec.games.bridge
Subject: Re: bidding problem
Date: 23 Nov 92 05:57:00 GMT
Organization: Irvine Compiler Corp., Irvine, California, USA

In article <1992Nov19.172930.11072@linus.mitre.org> bs@gauss.mitre.org 
(Robert D. Silverman) writes:

>::> Playing 2/1 GF and no opposition how do you
>::> recommend bidding the following hands.
>::> 
>::> Opener:  KQxx,A,AQxxx,109x
>::> Responder: Ax,Qxx,10xx,AKQJ8
>::
>::     1D   2C (1)
>::     2S   3C (2)
>::     4C   4S
>::     6C   P
>:
>
>And it still isn't the greatest 6C contract. It is a little over 50%.

Say they lead a trump.  Win it, ace of hearts, ace of spades, ruff a
heart, trump to hand, heart ruff, queen of spades discarding a
diamond, ace of diamonds, concede a diamond and now claim with your
high trumps.  If spades break 5-2 and they ruff your queen, you can
fall back on the diamond finesse.

On a spade lead, win with the king and continue as above.  A heart
lead makes life even easier for you.  On a diamond lead, take the
finesse immediately;  even if it loses, you will win any return and
play basically as above.

So this appears to be a lot better than a 50% slam.

                                -- Adam
Newsgroups: rec.games.bridge
From: rudy@netcom.com (Rudy)
Subject: Go ahead, flame, I'm off to the NACs Re: Freak hand. YBTJ
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services (408 241-9760 guest)
Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1992 06:34:00 GMT

In article <1992Nov19.011624.20789@leland.Stanford.EDU> daveshao@leland.stanford.edu (David Shao) writes:
>ended disastrously for the Americans, it is possible to pick out
>at least five cases in which European use of the more liberal jump
>response resulted in a serious loss to the Americans, and no case in 
>which American use of the minimum response can be held to have
>given them an advantage over the Europeans.  And there would have
>been a sixth except that on one occasion Terence Reese dropped
>the ace of hearts on the floor...

Well, you know how hard it is to hold on to one's cards when trying
to make all those funny figures with one's fingers...


Newsgroups: rec.games.bridge
From: sgm@sgfb.ssd.ray.com (Steve Myerson)
Subject: Re: Problems from Portland - results and summary
Organization: Raytheon Company, Portsmouth, RI
Date: Mon, 23 Nov 1992 17:43:10 GMT

In article <1992Nov22.004548.3739@linus.mitre.org> Robert D. Silverman writes:

>In article <1992Nov20.151557.27043@rayssd.ssd.ray.com> sgm@sgfb.ssd.ray.com (Steve Myerson) writes:
>:I've seen 5 articles and received 2 other responses via email.
>:In article <1992Nov16.230024.2100@rayssd.ssd.ray.com> I wrote:
>:* Get any two correct and you win the event.
>:
>:* 1. None vul. East dealer. You are West: AJ9542, T, Q7, AT32
>:* 
>:* West   North   East   South
>:*                pass   pass
>:* 1S-1   1N-2    pass   2D       1. 11-15 HCP, at least 4 spades
>:* pass   2H      (all pass)      2. 15-17
>:* 
>:* After West passed, South announced that there had been
>:* a failure to alert, and that 2D was a transfer to 2H.
>:* The director then permitted West to take back his final
>:* pass if he wished.  What do you do?
>:
>:Correct answer: PASS.
>:net.experts: 2 passes (both said they would have opened 2S and avoided
>:                       this problem altogether),

>Huh? I said pass, but did not say that I would open 2S. At least I don't
>remember doing so.

No, you didn't say that.

I saw Bob Silverman's comments to my original article AFTER I had
posted my results.
Bob's answers were not included in the net.experts summary.

>Hey! I got all 5 right! Does this mean I can play in flight B events?

It means that had you done as well on the other boards as we did,
you would have won the event.
But I thought Flight B events were beneath you.

>:-) :-) :-)   [no offense inteneded]

None taken.

Steve Myerson (sgm@sgfb.ssd.ray.com)
Newsgroups: rec.games.bridge