HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: st910131@pip.cc.brandeis.edu
Subject: SLUSHY SKIING
Reply-To: st910131@pip.cc.brandeis.edu
Organization: Brandeis University
Date: Wed, 15 Apr 1992 21:33:40 GMT

I have a question... Everyone complains about slushy, mushy conditions. 
I DON'T GET IT!!!!!!  I die for slush.  I wait for spring so that the snow
gets soft.  I ALMOST prefer slush to powder. Soft mushy moguls are a dream 
come true for me.  I tell my friends that I'm going skiing in the spring
and the common response is "Isn't it all slush though??".  I Seriously think
that skiing in slush is AWESOME. I can understand racers not liking slush
but for recreational skiiers I can't immagine anything better.  I am an expert
skiier, can anyone tell me if I'm CRAZY, or if anyone else has this same love
for SLUSHY SPRING SKIING? 

							Todd S.

Newsgroups: rec.skiing
From: bgeer@javelin.sim.es.com (Bob Geer)
Subject: Re: Avalanche death in Utah
Reply-To: bgeer@javelin.sim.es.com
Organization: Evans & Sutherland Computer Corporation
Date: Thu, 9 Apr 1992 14:24:16 GMT

byrnes@hpfcso.FC.HP.COM (John Byrnes) writes:
>Re: "Avalanche death in Utah"

>Hey!  You guys told me early this season that nobody dies in avalanches in
>Utah! 

I didn't say that.  Walt wouldn't say that.  Who would?  Hmmmm...maybe
a Coloradan who wants his state to himself...
-- 
<> Bob `Bear' Geer <>   bgeer@beorn.sim.es.com     (this *should* work)   <>
<>     cola-zombie <>   speaking only for myself, one of my many tricks   <>
<> Salt Lake City, <>    "We must strive to be more than we are, Lal."    <>
<>          Ootah  <>           -- Cmdr. Data, learning schmaltz          <>
From: chapman@hpfcso.FC.HP.COM (Larry Chapman)
Newsgroups: rec.skiing
Subject: Re: Snow Conditionds - Independence Pass, CO.
Date: 15 Apr 92 00:27:49 GMT
Organization: Hewlett-Packard, Fort Collins, CO, USA

> Does anyone have any information concerning the condition of the snow
> on the 14ers around Independence Pass, CO.?  I'm interested in whether
> the high peaks are into a melt-freeze cycle sufficient to set up the
> snow for some good spring tele skiing.

Hmmm.  I think you should be more  specific.  There really aren't any 14ers
near  Independance  Pass.  Do you mean the Elk Range (Maroon  Bells et al)?
The  Elks  are   closer   to  Aspen   than   the   pass.  There   is  great
semi-road-served  skiing  off the pass but you have to wait  until the road
opens for that.

I don't have any first hand  knowledge but as warm as it's been I'd suspect
the  conditions  would be great.  Don't  forget  that big (wet)  snows  can
easily happen this time of year and "ruin" the corn!

-- LSC
From: lapworth@mizar.usc.edu (Bill Lapworth)
Newsgroups: rec.skiing
Subject: Mammoth conditions
Date: 6 Apr 1992 15:22:29 -0700
Organization: University of Southern California, Los Angeles, CA
Distribution: ca
NNTP-Posting-Host: mizar.usc.edu

Mammoth has xlnt coverage still, just a few brown spots in heavily exposed
or used areas near the bottom at Hut II.  Temp was 50-55 deg  on 4/4 & 4/5.
Crowds were non existant.  Gondola, 3 & 5 had 10 minute lines after the
bottom got slushy on saturday, everywhere else was < 1 min.  (Oops, chair
1 also had 10 minute lines).  On sunday I only skiied 8,22&5 and there
were no lines.  Where is everybody?.  To me, the best part of low crowds
isn't the short lift lines, it's being able to cruise runs that are usually
too crowded to even ski on, let alone ski FAST.  I found a jump I never
knew existed before because I've never been able to go 35 mph there.

From: glenb@hpnmdla.sr.hp.com (Glen Baker)
Date: Tue, 7 Apr 1992 17:35:14 GMT
Subject: Re: How Do They Build Moguls?
Organization: What, me? Organized?
Newsgroups: rec.skiing

In rec.skiing, klaus@captain-crunch.ai.mit.edu (Klaus B. Biggers) writes:

> The problem with avalanches is that at zero minutes [..] your chance 
> of survival is around 80% or so isn't it

 Yep. Statistics say 20% die in the ride.

 ..glen
Newsgroups: rec.skiing
Subject: Re: Helmets and Laws
From: hugh@fivegl.co.nz (Hugh Grierson)
Date: Sat, 11 Apr 92 22:21:15 GMT
Reply-To: hugh@fivegl.co.nz (Hugh Grierson)
Organization: Task Management Ltd, Auckland, New Zealand

In article <daved.702757639@convex.convex.com> daved@convex.com (David Dorfman) writes:
>In <1992Apr8.085150.1@tesla.njit.edu> kpm8447@tesla.njit.edu writes:
>
>>If I ski down icy terrain that's way too slippery and don't 
>>stop to remove my board and WALK down around the bad spots..I'm an ass.
>
>In reference to your earlier comments on lawyers, what if you snowboard
>on icy terrain that is much to difficult for you in any case, fall and hit 
>an innocent third party who is put out of work without insurance for 3
>months who must feed their family in one way or another?

Well, not wanting to start an international legal flamewar on a skiing
group, but...  It depends on your own country's legal and health systems.
In NZ the injured person would be compensated by the state for health
expenses and loss of income.  Of course if you choose to live in the good
ol' USofA then insurance might be worthwhile...

>Is this where the lawyers get involved? I think so. 

Only in the US, eh.

What I'm trying to demonstrate is that there are other solutions to the
problem.  When the ACC act removed our right to sue for these sort of
events, it also removed the necessity to sue and the ensuing (sic)
escalation of liability insurance.  Our ski shops and resorts are not
hostage to any insurance company.


-- 
-Hugh Grierson--hugh@fivegl.co.nz----------Go fast or go home----------------
-Task Management Ltd-Auckland-New Zealand-Ph:+64.9.5206109-Fax:+64.9.5206101-
From: st910131@pip.cc.brandeis.edu
Newsgroups: rec.skiing
Subject: Backcountry in Maine
Date: 7 Apr 92 18:47:26 GMT
Article-I.D.: news.1992Apr7.184726.25997
Reply-To: st910131@pip.cc.brandeis.edu
Organization: Brandeis University

Has anyone out there skied Mt. Katadin (?spelling?) in Maine? I have seen 
photos, and heard that it is absolutely incredible if you can get to it. 
I heard (and saw in pictures) that it is far better than Tuckermans Ravine.
The one problem that I have heard of is getting there. First of all it is 
East bumf**k and therefore it is a long drive from anywhere.  I guess it's
quite a ways to hike from the road just to get to the mountian, and even 
farther to the peak. I am up for a challenge and want to know more about
Mt. Kadahdin! Any Info would be GREATLY appreciated.

							Todd S.
P.S. Any other suggestions for Backcountry skiing in the Northeast?
THANX
From: allen%asylum.utah.edu@cs.utah.edu (Allen Sanderson)
Newsgroups: rec.skiing
Subject: Re: Alaskan Heliskiing
Date: 8 Apr 92 22:30:55 GMT
Article-I.D.: hellgate.1992Apr8.163055.12960
Organization: University of Utah CS Dept

>Jim Isbell writes:
>
>>I had forgotten why I loved it so much...
>>                                                             ...A very
>>big part of all of this is the knowledge that up there you can point in most
>>directions and know without a bit of doubt that there isn't, hasn't and won't
>>be a human or a road or a trace of civilization for hundreds if not thousands
>>of miles.  Pure, untouched, abject wilderness that can easily swallow you up
>>and will most certainly erase all signs of your passing long before your
>>memories begin to fade.
>
>Lowell Skoog writes:
>Sounds wonderful.
>
>Does it bother you entering this country in a helicopter?  It seems
>to me that the helicopter would diminish the experience somewhat.
>Certainly it would diminish the experience for someone who had
>reached the country on foot.  Do people who have heli-skied (or
>heli-hiked) ever have doubts about the practice?
>

I have heliskied once and that was years ago - a bunch us in high
school got the local crop duster to fly a bunch of use into a basin
that was not heavily visited (Eastern Oregon Elk Horn Mtns).  We then
skied out to the road.  It was a blast even though I got frost-bite on
all ten toes.

Atleast recently though I have been watching the Heli-ski conflict
here in the Wasatch rather closely.  The Regional Forester agreed with
the Forest Supervisor on the new regs for the Wasatch PowderBirds
which limit them to one bird in the centeral Wasatch during peak days,
Friday - Sunday. There are some regs that limit the total number of
days plus others.  The only part I have found really anoying about the
Heli-skiing operation is the noise.  If they fly "over" me twice in an
hour and that was it I could tollerate it.  But when they do it 8
times in two hours it gets a bit ridiculous.  This is of course when I
am in wilderness and they are flying the ridge between wilderness and
non wilderness.  Irregardless of were I am though too many fly bys are
bad news.  The compitition for powder runs is horse-pucky in my book.

The argument that someone got there by helicopter, ski, horse or foot does
not bother me.  However, when the transportation effects my stay it does,
ie. lots of noise, poor trails, manure, etc.  Also, if the ease
transportation is bring in too many people and the environment is
suffering then it should be restricted.  I for one am glad that
helicopters can not land in the wilderness areas, yet I have been
buzzed by planes while in remote wilderness areas so it seems that no
matter were you go you always find a little civilization.

I should make one point, if was I ever sitting a top of a mountain and a
helicopter landed near me you bet that I would one pissed off person.


Allen
Newsgroups: rec.skiing
From: bgeer@javelin.sim.es.com (Bob Geer)
Subject: Re: Alta conditions
Reply-To: bgeer@javelin.sim.es.com
Organization: Evans & Sutherland Computer Corporation
Date: Tue, 7 Apr 1992 17:11:22 GMT

haas%basset.utah.edu@cs.utah.edu (Walt Haas) writes:
>We walked into Watson Shelter for lunch and there was a woman applying
>duct tape over the mouth of a teenage boy, something I have occasionally
>wished to do :-)

Gawd, how righteous!  How Alta!!!  Duct tape!!!

What at Alta *isn't* covered with duct tape?  :-)  It's part of the
Alta mystique, like, gloves that have no duct tape on the fingers
should be at Snowbird!  Powder pants with no duct tape are too new!
-- 
<> Bob `Bear' Geer <>   bgeer@beorn.sim.es.com     (this *should* work)   <>
<>     cola-zombie <>   speaking only for myself, one of my many tricks   <>
<> Salt Lake City, <>    "We must strive to be more than we are, Lal."    <>
<>          Ootah  <>           -- Cmdr. Data, learning schmaltz          <>
From: smee@bristol.ac.uk (Paul Smee)
Newsgroups: rec.skiing
Subject: Re: Wedge turning to parallel turning:  Ideas?
Date: 10 Apr 92 09:38:57 GMT
Reply-To: P.Smee@bristol.ac.uk (Paul Smee)
Organization: University of Bristol

In article <2PTyiB1w164w@cellar.org> sailor@cellar.org (Rick Emerson) writes:
>smee@bristol.ac.uk (Paul Smee) writes:
>> It's had two effects on me.  One is that I ski better.  The other is
>> that I have more fun because I don't spend so much time worrying about
>> whether I am skiing better or not.  Seems the relaxeder I get, the
>> better I go.  And, the better I'm skiing, the less work it takes, which
>> makes me relax more, which is a really nice feedback loop.
>
>Ah, Grasshopper, to ski well is much like capturing a wild rabbit.  Run
>straight for the rabbit and it flees.  Make as if your goal is not to catch
>the rabbit and it is yours.

Lest it seem that I brag too much, this topic has also turned into a
mail conversation with a few people, and here's an extract from a bit
of my mail which feels relevant here.  (The quoted bit is from Liz at
CERN, the answer mine.)

| Yes, but the reverse is also true :
| I fall over, I worry about what I'm doing wrong, I ski worse, I fall
| over ......

True, sometimes it breaks down.  Last time we went skiing, we did a
really good run down a steep, narrow, icy, but smooth, black.  Felt
so good, we said 'Hey, let's go try that nasty black mogul field we
saw on the way up the lift'.  About a third of the way down that, I
suddenly discovered that I was having trouble believing that I didn't
need to worry about it, and it all fell apart.  Oh well...  [At least
I know what to work on next year.]

-- 
Paul Smee, Computing Service, University of Bristol, Bristol BS8 1UD, UK
 P.Smee@bristol.ac.uk - ..!uunet!uknet!bsmail!p.smee - Tel +44 272 303132
From: eugene@wilbur.nas.nasa.gov (Eugene N. Miya)
Newsgroups: rec.skiing
Subject: Re: Telescopic poles wanted
Date: 15 Apr 92 16:35:45 GMT
Article-I.D.: nas.1992Apr15.163545.15966
Organization: NAS, NASA Ames Research Center, Moffett Field, CA

In article <1992Apr12.032055.28986@fcom.cc.utah.edu>
bbarkey@victoria.utah.edu (Brian Barkey) writes:
>From: byrnes@hpfcso.FC.HP.COM (John Byrnes)
>>IMHO, the only adjustable poles to have are the ones with push buttons.  I've
>>had a pair of Ramers now for...8 years?  They've never slipped.  

>Freinds of mine say that the 'push button poles' are weaker. Also
>I don't know if anyone makes them anymore, do they?

What Paul [Ramer] went out of business?!  Heaven forbid, the world is
coming to an end......  Naw, check the Boulder phone book.  I have owned
3 sets of Ramer poles: The first Company 3 poles, a set of fixed length-SAs
[tested these for him, and I broke them] and have a set of adjustables.
I have cracked but duct taped the C3 poles.  They are now 14 years old.
I only use them on light day tours.  The current ones (now 4-5 years old)
are in fine shape.  You get used to the clicking of the hole tolerance 
and the whisling in the wind is a bit annoying at first.

The problem I worry about will come when I have to probe for some one.
I hope that there will not be hard blocks at depth which cause the buttons
to open up as you do the up/down probing.  In a bad situation, you may
lose the bottom of a pole down a shaft wasting valuable time.  Highly
improbable, but still a potential.  Still better than poling and finding
yourself with half a pole, the other half planted up slope.

>>All I hear from my friends who have the "twist and tighten" kind are 
>>whining about them slipping, freezing, can't grip them with my mittons on...
>
>Buy some friction tape,

It's silly to stand an adjust poles for zigzag traverses.  It's faster to
swap poles or better just grab the uphill pole lower.  That is after all what
we did before adjustable poles.

--eugene miya, NASA Ames Research Center, eugene@orville.nas.nasa.gov
  Resident Cynic, Rock of Ages Home for Retired Hackers
  {uunet,mailrus,other gateways}!ames!eugene
This is the Usenet: do you expect anything other than gross generalizations?
Ref: Mathematics and Plausible Reasoning, vol. 1, G. Polya
Newsgroups: rec.skiing
From: eugene@wilbur.nas.nasa.gov (Eugene N. Miya)
Subject: Avalanches (is got to edit subject lines was Re: How Do They Build Moguls?)
Organization: NAS, NASA Ames Research Center, Moffett Field, CA
Date: Wed, 8 Apr 92 00:07:33 GMT

In article <23175@life.ai.mit.edu> klaus@captain-crunch.ai.mit.edu
(Klaus B. Biggers) writes:
>The problem with avalanches is that at zero minutes, your chance of survival
>is not 100%, its somewhere around 80% or so isn't it, meaning the ride
>can kill you as I believe it did for this fatality.

Yeah.
You can get crushed by moving blocks, rocks, trees or other flotsam
(debris).  This worries me because you can easily get knocked out,
and your efforts to swim out become fruitless.

You can get pinned against a stationary object and crushed (tree or
large rock).

You will inhale a lot of snow.  I know what this is like.
Suffocation. (3 minutes to brain damage.)

If you have skis or snowshoes on, the drag from these can easily
dislocate an ankle, knee, or even a thigh.

Heavy packs, poles, ice axes, and other objects can cause drag and
other problems (dislocation of elbows, wrists, shoulders), 

As well as getting thrown off a cliff, impaled by objects, etc.

This says nothing of the novice fallacy that you might be able to move
when the snow settles.

I know what it feels like to sail off a cliff (but that wasn't an avalanche).

80/20 sounds about right.  Perla or LaChapelle would know the statistics.
The 50/50 is empirical.  So the 80/20 would also be, too.

--eugene miya, NASA Ames Research Center, eugene@orville.nas.nasa.gov
  Resident Cynic, Rock of Ages Home for Retired Hackers
  {uunet,mailrus,other gateways}!ames!eugene
Ref: ABC of Avalanche Safety, Avalanche Handbook
From: martel@marvin.mr.sintef.no (Paulo Martel)
Newsgroups: rec.skiing
Subject: Re: Wedge turning to parallel turning: Ideas?
Date: 13 Apr 92 10:01:18 GMT
Organization: University of Trondheim, Norway

I would like to have the complete reference of the 2 books discussed here,
"The Centered Skier" and "Skiing from the inside". Are they recommended for
someone struggling to be a good intermediate skier (and expert some day...)?

Thanks

Paulo
--
Paulo Martel             |  e-mail: martel@marvin.mr.sintef.no |               
MR-Center                |  phone: +47-7-997700                |               
SINTEF		         |  FAX:   +47-7-997708                |               
N-7034 Trondheim, NORWAY |                                     |
From: kpm8447@tesla.njit.edu
Newsgroups: rec.skiing
Subject: Helmets and Laws
Date: 8 Apr 92 13:51:50 GMT
Organization: New Jersey Institute of Technology

Well, once again, people aren't responsible for their own actions.
If the lawyers have their way (and they will until someone finally 
eliminates them...Hey Manson, get on it!) we'll all be skiing in
plastic bubbles.  There is no need to have "baby sitting" laws.  I snowboard.
I have for a season and haven't gotten hurt too bad, my bro messed up
his wrist though, but he knew what could happen.  If I die on the slopes,
I'm an ass!  If I ski down icy terrain that's way too slippery and don't 
stop to remove my board and WALK down around the bad spots..I'm an ass.
I don't need some politican (sorry for the spelling..it's early) telling
me to do this or do that.  If I feel that I could get seriously hurt,
I'll buy a helmet.  (I mountain bike also and bought a helmet last year,
no law was in effect at the time, I just felt it was necessary because
of the terrain I was riding)  People need to just think before they do
something.  There is no reason to sue.  Pretty soon, the mountains will
close (helmets or not) because it will be "Too dangerous"  Again, with
my snowboard, I had to sign a form stating that I understand that the
bindings do not release and I could get hurt.  This form is to save
Burton's butt from all the damn lawsuits.  I feel laws are a waste.
If people want the safety (we all see the kids with helmets skiing)
then they should be allowed to have it but there is no reason to force
everyone to have it.  What's next?  A private guide will ski with you
to make sure it's o.k. @$1000/day???  I'm all for safety but I feel
people should be allowed to make their own choices.  As the lift ticket
states, skiing is a hazardous sport..etc....That sums it up.  If you
feel it's too dangerous, don't do it.
 - Kirk
(Let's cut all the trees down to make skiing safer...NOT!)
From: shaks@cfa.harvard.edu (Jonathan Schachter)
Newsgroups: rec.skiing
Subject: Re: Telescopic poles wanted -- End of season sale??
Date: 7 Apr 92 22:45:02 GMT
Organization: /u1/shaks/.organization


In article <1992Apr4.223731.27336@menudo.uh.edu>, eleeqm@Rosie.UH.EDU (Rob Sharpe) writes:
> 
>      I'm looking for a seasonal ( or end of season ) sale on a pair of
> telescopic poles....for general mountaineering use....and to help walking
> with a load after knee sugery. I've contacted most of the mail order place
> that I know of. If anyone if aware of such a deal I would appreciate a note
> via email.
> 
> Thanks
> 
> Rob Sharpe
> sharpe_r@eml.ee.uh.edu


  i got mine at REI.  i don't remember the brand name, but they are swiss
i think.  they work well, but on ice they telescope down!  very annoying!

jon
From: martel@marvin.mr.sintef.no (Paulo Martel)
Newsgroups: rec.skiing
Subject: Skiing on ice...
Date: 13 Apr 92 12:34:33 GMT
Organization: University of Trondheim, Norway

Hi folks !

I do I get a firm grip while turning on ice ? The steel edges of my skis
do grip on the ice if I'm standing still, as long I tilt the skis enough.
But it seems to me that the skis are lying too flat on the ice when I turn,
causing  sideways slide. This doesn't seem to be a problem for better skiers,
they make fast, tight turns on ice with full grip. Any tips ?

Thanks,

Paulo


--
Paulo Martel             |  e-mail: martel@marvin.mr.sintef.no |               
MR-Center                |  phone: +47-7-997700                |               
SINTEF		         |  FAX:   +47-7-997708                |               
N-7034 Trondheim, NORWAY |                                     |               
Newsgroups: rec.skiing
From: lasala@cs.cornell.edu (Steve LaSala)
Subject: Re: Telescopic poles wanted
Organization: Cornell Univ. CS Dept, Ithaca NY 14853
Date: Thu, 16 Apr 1992 16:01:56 GMT

In article <1992Apr15.163545.15966@nas.nasa.gov> eugene@wilbur.nas.nasa.gov (Eugene N. Miya) writes:
>In article <1992Apr12.032055.28986@fcom.cc.utah.edu>
>bbarkey@victoria.utah.edu (Brian Barkey) writes:
>
>>>All I hear from my friends who have the "twist and tighten" kind are 
>>>whining about them slipping, freezing, can't grip them with my mittons on...
>>
>>Buy some friction tape,

	Haven't had any problems myself (Edelrid twistlock poles, non-probe)
The tape might help, but you can't put it on the bottom part, or it will no
longer slide smoothly into the top part.  Better to get mitts with non-slip
palms.

	I don't depend on adjustables for heavy-duty pure skiing, though
(lift-served slopes or fast set tracks)  I bring them to the backcountry
when multiple uses and perhaps on-pack transport are required.

>It's silly to stand an adjust poles for zigzag traverses.  It's faster to
>swap poles or better just grab the uphill pole lower.  That is after all what
>we did before adjustable poles.

	Agreed, but for a long single traverse (sidehill trail, for instance)
I have found that shortening one pole and lengthening the other makes things
less awkward.  All my poles have duct tape wrapped around them for emergencies,
and I try to put it at the right height to act as an ersatz handle to shorten
long poles to alpine and/or ice-axe length.  It gives enough purchase for
most situations.