From: makowsky@enuxhb.eas.asu.edu (David Makowsky)
Subject: Re: Israel's deportation of over 400 Palestinians
Reply-To: makowsky@enuxhb.eas.asu.edu (David Makowsky)
Organization: Arizona State University, Tempe AZ
Date: Mon, 4 Jan 1993 00:18:53 GMT

In article <1i7mjqINN3i8@agate.berkeley.edu> ph111-bx@violet.berkeley.edu (;;;;7202) writes:

# In article <1993Jan3.165550.14881@ennews.eas.asu.edu> makowsky@enuxhb.eas.asu.edu (David Makowsky) writes:

# }In article <1i6gdjINNmd4@agate.berkeley.edu> ph111-bx@violet.berkeley.edu (;;;;7202) writes:

# }# In article <1992Dec24.183747.25193@das.harvard.edu> adam@endor.uucp
# }# (Adam Shostack) writes:

# }# ->In article <1992Dec22.091054.24186@Princeton.EDU>
# }# niepornt@phoenix.Princeton.EDU (David Marc Nieporent) writes:

# }# ->Quoting somewhat out of context here:

# }# ->>(Basically, I view this as pretty analagous to the US interment of
# }# ->>Japanese-Americans during WW2, actually.  The government there, too,
# }# ->>said there was an imminent security threat because a war was going on.
# }# ->>Many of the people arguing this may even have believed it sincerely.  It
# }# ->>didn't make the actions right, however.)

# }# ->This analogy, is like comparing apples and oranges.  The basic
# }# ->difference between the actions of the US government and the Israeli
# }# ->government is that the Arabs living in Gaza pose a demonstratable and
# }# ->definite threat to the Israeli population.

# }# ->The Americans of Japanese ancestry who were thrown into camps had
# }# ->shown no propensity to oppose the American war effort.  Many of them
# }# ->were second and third generation American citizens.  There were no
# }# ->instances that I know of of Japanese-Americans spying for the Imperial
# }# ->Government.  This is in stark contrast to the fact that there were
# }# ->Germans who spied for the Reich, although German-Americans were never
# }# ->jailed en masse.

# }# ->Please note that I am not defending the deportations.  I am merely
# }# ->trying to point out that David's analogy is fundamentally inaccurate. 
 
# }# In both cases the internees and deportees were denied due process in time of
# }# war and instead summarily interned or deported following neither trial nor
# }# conviction.  The degree to which each group was/is held in suspect is
# }# immaterial.

# }	This is plain and simply misleading.  What was being debated was
# }not the degree to which each group was/is held in suspect as you
# }claim, but the degree to which they were/are a threat.  You are
# }discussing apples and oranges.
 
# How do you measure and establish the existance and extent of the threat
# someone poses?

	Well, here is just one simple measure.  Nissim Toledano.  There
are of course more.

	One thing has just occured to me.  Why am I even bothering to
answer you?  There is a war going on.  If you expect things to operate
normally you are pathetic.

# If someone says you're a threat to the state, how should
# you be allowed to answer such charges before action is taken?

	You do not need to answer.  Just avoid VOLUNTARY membership in
organizations whose raison de etre is to be a threat to the state.

# }# Whether you're not liked because of your last name or the shape
# }# of your eyes, or because of your political positions or suspected acts, if the
# }# threat you pose to the state is such that extreme measures, i.e. internment
# }# or deportation, are warrented, then you deserve your day in court to confront
# }# and defend against the evidence of your alleged "demonstratable and definite
# }# threat" BEFORE sentence is carried out.

# }	Not if going through this imposes an unacceptable threat to the
# }population.  And if you believe otherwise you are being both wrong,
# }impracticle, and suicidal should you ever be faced with such a
# }situation.
 
# Again, who and how is this "unacceptable threat to the population"
# supposed to be determined?  Where is the standard by which someone
# may be judged to be such a threat?  Are you saying it's enough just
# to make the accusation?

	Get real.  And by the way Mr. Coward, what is your name?
--
	There are three types of people in the world.  Those that are good
at math and those that are not.

makowsky@enuxhb.eas.asu.edu
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