HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: akash@sol.berkeley.edu (Akash R. Deshpande)
Subject: Re: Do we need a religion?
Organization: U.C. Berkeley -- ERL
Distribution: usa
Date: Sat, 19 Dec 1992 05:39:35 GMT

In article <1gtkvmINN9ol@phakt.usc.edu> fafat@phakt.usc.edu (Vijay Fafat) writes:
>	                                   Again, if you mean really, really,
>	REALLY impervious, how impervious and to what? Unless I know your
>	limitations,...

You agree then that we need some common sense apparatus (apparati?)
before we can even start talking scientifically. Note that all you
can do is demonstrate (rather violently) that there is light, not
prove it, assuming that there is common sense apparatus. Even then,
photocells are not unique sources of electricity, and convex lenses
are not unique precipitators of fire. So you still have some proof
left.

The domain of science is limited to talking about observations of
reality. It no can talk of reality itself. You may want to contemplate
over 
	yato vAcho nivartante
	aprApya manasA saha
	Anandam brahmano vidvAn
			Taittiriya Upanishad, Brahmanandavalli Ch.4

	The delight of the Eternal from which words turn away
	without attaining and the mind also returneth baffled,
	who knoweth the delight of the Eternal?

By analogy, it is impossible for us to talk about "psychological"
phenomena unless we have some common subtle sense apparatus. So
I guess I have a long wait ahead while I watch evolution meander
along its course. But I have hope because such a sense is latent
or behind the veil in you. It is that in you which sees your eye's
seeings (my earlier quote from Kena).

-Akash
From: dea@vccsouth06.its.rpi.edu (Anirban De)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.indian
Subject: BJP led state govts to follow Central govt. ban on communal organizations
Date: 13 Dec 92 15:50:47 GMT
Article-I.D.: rpi.v4h2pfc
Organization: Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute, Troy NY


Source:  BBC World Service
Time:  10:00am EST Dec 13,1992


According to last count over 1,200 people died due to
the violence following the Ayodhya incident

Over 500 members of the three outlawed Hindu communal
organizations arrested in Uttar Pradesh

BJP supporters observed "Black Day" on Sunday to protest
against the arrest of members of Hindu organizations,
against the arrest of their party leaders and against
the Central govt.'s decision to rebuild the mosque

BJP governments in power in different states in India
have decided not to go against the Central govt.'s 
order to ban communal organizations and are sending
the necessary directives to their magistrates
Newsgroups: soc.culture.indian
From: rrp@cbnewsg.cb.att.com (rakesh.r.patel)
Subject: Re: To be or not to be - ashamed
Organization: AT&T
Date: Thu, 17 Dec 1992 19:56:28 GMT

In article <1992Dec17.165034.14526@cbnewsi.cb.att.com> alok@cbnewsi.cb.att.com (alok.vijayvargia) writes:
>In article <1992Dec16.180506.29677@cbfsb.cb.att.com>, rrp@cbnewsg.cb.att.com (rakesh.r.patel) writes:
>> In article <1992Dec15.210808.27358@cbnewsi.cb.att.com> alok@cbnewsi.cb.att.com (alok.vijayvargia) writes:
>> >
>> >You ought to feel ashamed about it because you as a Hindu failed to
>> >do anything to prevent such events from happening. You ought to
>> >be ashamed because you disown reposibility to stand up for a fellow
>> >Hindu in trouble elsewhere outside India. You ought to be ashamed for not
>> >doing anything to prevent such incidences from occuring against Hindus
>> >in future.
>> >
>> 
>> 
>> Come on, Alok! Am I my brother's keeper?? 
>> 
>
>If that is the way you think, then you shouldn't be a Muslim's keeper
>either. They can take care of themselves too.

I think you are mistaken. I do not assume to be the keeper of anyone.
How you got that idea is beyond me. What's this about Muslims taking
care of themselves - I mention nothing about that, and neither did you.


>
>Listen Rakesh, you missed the context in which all these shames were
>thrown upon each other. 

Please explain. What did I miss??????????

>So relax, take it easy, nobody is asking you
>to take care of the mankind.

That's a relief. But you asking that we should all bear the onus.
Kind of like blaming the entire German people for the Holocaust.


Rakesh Patel
From: ighosh@fws211.intel.com (Indraneel Ghosh - EPG)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.indian
Subject: Re: Ayodhya: symptom, not malady.
Date: 13 Dec 92 00:59:43 GMT
Organization: Intel Corporation

In article <7897@news.duke.edu> shafqat@neuro.duke.edu (Saad Shafqat) writes:
>
>
>
>
>While the events of Ayodhya are reprehensible in principle, we must
>all - Hindu Muslim alike - recognize it as merely a symptom and not
>the malady itself. It was a catharsis long overdue.  No contemporary 
>person is at fault, and certainly not Lal Krishan Advani nor his followers.  
>My heart goes out to those of India's citizenry who had sought to hold the
>Indian secular creed to a high standard, only to see it crash in Ayodhya.
>But I urge them and everyone else to recognize that the problem is not
>religious intolerance.  No, no, no.  The root cause of Ayodhya, the
>malady behind the symptom, is poverty, a chronic illness that breeds 
>misery, intolerance, communal strife, hate, bigotry, insecurity, 
>malice and impatience.  Do not blame the people.  Blame instead the events 
>and individuals that have led them to their poverty.  Conversely, to 
>redress, do not ask for tolerance and calm.  Ask instead for wealth and 
>affluence and peace will follow.
>

 I could'nt agree more. The root problem in India (as well as Pakistan,
 Bangladesh) is poverty and unemployment and the resulting frustration, which 
 is exploited by demagouges for their own bigoted ends. 

 Riots and senseless killings, divert attention from our REAL problems,
 like an exploding population growth rate and the need for rapid economic
 growth. That causes those problems to be neglected, increasing people's 
 poverty and frustration communal hatred. Its a vicious circle.

 As long as people are poor and illilerate, they will be easily swayed by
 the RSS-Jamaat types.

>
>Saad Shafqat.
>

 Indraneel.
Newsgroups: soc.culture.indian
From: crick@tsp.med.umn.edu (Ed Crick (CD))
Subject: Re: Wormallic
Organization: University of Minnesota
Date: Sat, 12 Dec 1992 19:08:19 GMT

In article <1gbe2eINN6n2@aludra.usc.edu> fafat@usc.edu (Vijay Fafat) writes:
>
>
>T'was once a guy named WORMA,
>Hate Moslems his only Karma,
>He called himself a Hindoo,
>And Cow-meat wasn't fundoo
>But ate all else without any Sharma
>
>bk
>
A hindu fanatic from DEC,
His country he sought to protect,
From the eaters of meat
And the sins they bequeath.
But his rantings have an impotent effect.

Ed

Newsgroups: soc.culture.indian
From: abdutta@icaen.uiowa.edu (Abhijit Dutta)
Subject: Re: Murder of democracy? Big deal
Date: Thu, 17 Dec 1992 20:41:24 GMT
Distribution: na
Organization: Iowa Computer Aided Engineering Network, University of Iowa

|		Murder of democracy? Big deal
|
|  What is so bad about the dismissal of the BJP governments in MP, HP and
|Rajasthan? There are umpteen number of times when state governments were

|  Has it gained support outside it's traditional areas of strength? 
|Probably not. Despite all their effort to create a big issue over Tinbigha
---------------
    It depends on your agenda.  If you are a BJP baiter then probably you will
    say 'probably not'! if you are a BJP supporter you will probably say 
    'probably yes'!.  But I think what probably counts is what those real people
    living a real life back in India thinks about BJP!!!

|will make India a Hindu republic and mirror-image of, say Pakistan or 
|Saudi Arabia.  Strangely, some people on this net seem to think that India
|should become a saffron version of Pakistan. So you actually think that
|Partition was a good idea? Would you like to see saffron-clad ayatollahs
|like, say, Uma Bharati or Ashok Singhal issuing death threats to anyone
|who writes something vaguely against the government's policy?
|  More seriously, the BJP/VHP/RSS government is too heavily dominated by
|people from certain communities in certain parts of the country. Tensions
|between the North and South are certain to rise. There is a real possibility
|of a strong breakaway movement starting in several states (particularly
|the South) in the event of a central government dominated by the BJP.

|  Enough speculation for one day :-)

Or say, enuff 'day dreaming with an attitude' / 'scare tactic' for the day ;) ;-)



-- 

Newsgroups: soc.culture.indian,soc.culture.pakistan
From: sherwani@sol.cs.wmich.edu (Naveed Sherwani)
Subject: Re: Who's doing the killings...
Summary: Hyder Bhai is on it again !
Organization: Western Michigan Univ. Comp. Sci. Dept.
Date: Sun, 13 Dec 1992 05:37:10 GMT

In article <lil54iINN3aa@pageboy.cs.utexas.edu>, hyder@cs.utexas.edu (Syed Irfan Hyder) writes:
> In article <1992Dec12.230440.9267@sol.cs.wmich.edu> sherwani@sol.cs.wmich.edu (Naveed Sherwani) writes:
> >In article <1gatbvINNcl5@tamsun.tamu.edu>, gagrawal@cs.tamu.edu (Gopal Agrawal) writes:
> >> 
> >> just because they are in a majority. Religion is bullshit and must 
> >> be ignored (if not hated) for all the immeasurable suffering and 
> >> chaos it has caused.
> >
> >I would not call religion a bullshit. Like you, I dont follow any religion,
> >but I do repect the right of others to follow any religion they wish, as long as,
> >they keep it to themselves. I, however, understand your frustration
> >with religions and trouble that they cause. 
> 
> Let's also include in this list of religions, the religion of
> self-profit or the religion of non-religion. 
> This is the religion whose prophet was
> Adam Smith. Of course, there was another religion 
> whose prophet was Karl Marx. Although, the latter religion is
> now even extinct in its birth place, the other is still out there. 
> 
Hyder Bhai:

 I am sorry, but you seem paranoid in this article. I dont see any
connection between 

my statement that 

  "I dont follow any religion"

 and your statment that 

  "I follow religion of self-profit."

I see no basis of such a judgement.
What economic I follow is not clear from my statement and it
is certainly not known to you. How can you pass judgement on this
issue ?

Maybe I dont even endore Adam smith's ideologies (on economics).

> 
> Indeed. This is called religion of the non-religion. 
> 

Even if that is true, what is that to do with Adam Smith !

regards,

-Naveed

Newsgroups: soc.culture.indian
From: sgs@ucs.usl.edu (Sudhindranath SG)
Subject: Re: THEY DID WHAT IS RIGHT FOR THE MAJORITY.
Organization: Univ. of Southwestern La., Lafayette
Date: Sun, 13 Dec 1992 15:22:04 GMT

In article <1992Dec11.194824.17528@udel.edu> godura@hercules.cis.udel.edu (Ruchir Godura) writes:
>In article <1992Dec11.150027.22635@usl.edu> sgs@ucs.usl.edu (Sudhindranath SG) writes:
>>In article <1992Dec10.215222.7443@galileo.cc.rochester.edu> ousi_ltd@uhura.cc.rochester.edu (Fanatic Hindu Basher) writes:
>>>In <1992Dec9.200218.7176@oucsace.cs.ohiou.edu> cdram@b0ddddd.ent.ohiou.edu (Ram) writes:
>>>
>>You are assuming that courts of law in India uphold law and justice. 
>>You are also assuming that in India, law will be allowed to take its course.
>>
>>My friend, you are making VERY BIG assumptions. Because, in 
>>Nehru-Indira-Rajiv's India, there is no such thing as law, no such 
>~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>>thing as justice...
>>
>>>
>>>Omer..
>>
>>Regards,
>>
>>--Sudhi.
>>
>AHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH !
>Back in fo, mr fanatic nehru basher ?
>Why blame mr fanatic hindu ? He was born in the land of Nehru/IG/RG.
 ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>It's not his fault he's like that.
 ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Well, if you _still_ don't understand how the policies of Nehru/IG/RG have 
contributed to the emergence of communalism in India, then probably
you will _never_ understand.

Sigh...!

>Likewise, I must sympahise with mr fanatic hindu basher. Being from the
>same subcontinent as nehru/IG/RG, he can't help being evil.
>Why don't you shut up if you don't have anything new to say.
 ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>

What's new ? Yesterday, hundreds of people were killed in communal riots,
today, hundreds of people will be killed in communal riots, tomorrow,
hundreds of people...  Is there anything new to say ?

>Regards,
>Ruchir.
>
>Ruchir Godura | godura@cis.udel.edu | (302) 292-0668 (H) (302) 831-1949 (W)

Regards,

--Sudhi.

-- 
*********************************************************************
Sira Gopinath Sudhindranath. 
email : sudhi@usl.edu, sgs@ucs.usl.edu
*********************************************************************
Newsgroups: soc.culture.indian,soc.culture.tamil,soc.culture.indian.telugu
From: narayana@psuvax1.cs.psu.edu (Kuram T Narayana)
Subject: Re: Fake Degrees From TamilNadu
Organization: Penn State Computer Science
Date: Wed, 16 Dec 1992 01:50:32 GMT

In article <BzBqsL.49C@ireq.hydro.qc.ca> srini@ireq-num.hydro.qc.ca (Srinivasan K.) writes:
>In article <BzBC8q.ByL@cs.psu.edu> narayana@psuvax1.cs.psu.edu
> (Kuram T Narayana) writes:
>>The latest issue of India Today has a very interesting article
>>on how Ph.Ds, D.Litts, etc., are being bought for anywhere
>>between 5000 to 15000 rupees. All these degrees seem to be from
>>US universities. Apparently in TamilNadu having a Dr before
>>your name is prestigious for politicians, musicians, industrialists, etc.
>>They have a thriving industry for generating these fake degrees,
>>with scholarly thesis, and all that.
>>
>>Next time you hire an RA/TA/postdoc or admit a student to a graduate program
>>from TamilNadu, take care to see whether the degrees are for real or
>>fake.
>>
>>Just to inform our inquiring sci readers!
>>...kt
>
>The fake degrees are US degrees, as I understand from your posting.
>Are n't the fake degree open to all Indians who are willing to pay the
>bribe? Should n't US degrees be better scrutinized to assure it is genuine?
>
>I am surprised, to what lengths some can go to to defame all Tamils.
>
>KS
>

If you can control your terminal itch, the note above mentioned
of US degrees issued in Tamilnadu. Just try to read the article
before commenting further. It pays to think!

Because the article specifically stated about the TamilNadu industry,
I put it out! You want me to cover up. 

...kt
Newsgroups: soc.culture.indian
From: alok@cbnewsi.cb.att.com (alok.vijayvargia)
Subject: Re: Did you call Pakistani Consulate ? (Re: Killings in Paki
Organization: AT&T
Date: Tue, 15 Dec 1992 18:41:51 GMT

In article <168B914688.THAHARA@YaleVM.YCC.Yale.Edu>, THAHARA@YaleVM.YCC.Yale.Edu writes:
> In article <1992Dec10.224400.15038@cbnewsi.cb.att.com>
> alok@cbnewsi.cb.att.com (alok.vijayvargia) writes:
>  
> >
> >In other words you are not concerned about the heinous burning of Hindu
> >women and children in Pakistan.
>  
> What I'm saying is that the Pakistani consulate is not going to care one iota
> for my feelings about events in their country.  

What makes you think so ? Did you ever try it ?

> They represent the Pakistani people to the American people 

And some of those Pakistani people are Hindus who got burnt. Don't you think
you have any say in speaking on behalf of your Hindu kins ? What happened
to Hindu kinship ? Don't you think Hindus have any obligation on part of
each other ?

> and are not obliged to even listen to me, an Indian citizen.  

Any person can file a protest to any embassy irrespective
of one's citizenship. You are living in a free country. Haven't you seen
a variety of demonstrations outside Indian embassy by non-Indian citizens ?

Whether they listen or not, is a different question. I believe you are
being presumptious here in saying that they would not listen to you.
But may be not. It may have more to do with your lack of will than
their unwillingness to listen to you.

> That is why I said it would be STUPID to call them, because
> they could just tell you to piss off and hang up on you.

You are being very presumtious.
Try it first and if it happens than tell us about it.

Alok
Newsgroups: soc.culture.indian,soc.culture.pakistan
From: narayana@oracorp.com (K. T. Narayana)
Subject: Re: Narrow Hindu Beliefs- was- Ram (Was he Fact or Fiction)??
Organization: ORA Corporation, Ithaca, New York
Date: Tue, 15 Dec 1992 14:38:33 GMT

In article <1gbmfbINNijk@aludra.usc.edu> fafat@aludra.usc.edu (Vijay Fafat) writes:
>Kuram narayan writes:
>>If you can believe darwin's theory of evolution (which is only a theory)
>>you can as well believe all the scriptures. 
>
>	Nope. Scriptures don't expound "theories". They're just philosophies.
>	Darwin's theory is'nt an idle flight of fancy. 
>
This is the first time that I am learning that Darwin's theory is something
that can be established. Scriptures are as much theories as Darwins.
They remain so, until a finality for creation is established through
scientific means. Atleast from what I know of science, science has
not establsihed that.

>
>>but blind belief and believing
>>as a learned person are different; where as the former is ignorance,
>>the later is knowledge. the same the person weho condemns  scriptures
>>and scriptural knowledge as irreevant is also ignorant, even more so.
>
>	The scriptural "knowledge" is irrelevant to the extent that it
>	does'nt say anything useful in concrete terms. Of course, it has
>	a lot of spiritual value for a lot of people but that's a subjective
>	attribute.
>
No comment! It depends on the individuals disposition, perhaps even age
and learning.
>>
>>> Rajat Kapoor
>>
>>..kt
>
>	FFT
>
From: dante@sytex.com (Vikram David)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.indian
Subject: Re: calcutta             
Date: Sat, 12 Dec 92 14:19:55 EST
X-Maildoor: WaflineMail 1.00r

>Path: sytex!uunet!spool.mu.edu!news.nd.edu!beethoven!tzaki
>From: tzaki@beethoven.helios.nd.edu ()
>Newsgroups: soc.culture.indian
>Subject: Re: calcutta
>Message-ID: <1992Dec10.070215.24640@news.nd.edu>
>Date: Thu, 10 Dec 1992 07:02:15 GMT
>References: <1992Dec10.035449.22014@news.nd.edu>
>Sender: news@news.nd.edu (USENET News System)
>Organization: OUC, University of Notre Dame
>Lines: 46

>further info from Calcutta:

>Indefinite curfew continues. The people in India are facing
>news blackout. Apparently, it is not known to them that
>RSS/VHP has been banned. In my opinion, this is an extremely
>stupid move. It is going to haunt them. On a related note,
>the Kali Mandir in Park Circus and a Shiv mandir in Ballygunge
>have been destroyed, presumably by muslims.

>Our friendly neighbours from the subcontinent should be happy
>to note that based on initial reports from Calcutta their
>muslim brethrens are ahead in this number game. These
>economic refugees from Disasterland( oops, Bangladesh)
>seem to have started well.

>The endgame is however not clear, so stay tuned.
>With the banning of VHP/RSS and the rebuilding of
>Babri/Debris Masjid GOI has ensured that the game
>will continue. In which case the numbers should
>eventually favour the majority. Even in India the
>tail does not always wag the dog.

>In Pakistan the muslims in their inimitable style have
>among others done the following:

>Stoned to death several small Hindu children.

>Burnt alive several womenfolk in a temple.

>Destroyed temples with bulldozers (a neat touch there)

>As far as the number games are concerned they are
>ahead since the opposition is non-existent. They have
>won their first test by an innings and 700 runs.
>All this doesn't surprise me. This is merely a
>tradition that they excel in.
>The great Tamarlane was their foremost
>exponent . All the rest are merely milli or micro
>Tamarlanes. Although it might surprise the spineless,
>dickless and ball-less pseudo-secularist Indians.
>They were the ones who posted all those "i am ashamed
>to be a Hindu" crap.

Why are you so against SECULARISM?
SECULARISM: 1. secular spirit or tendency, EXP. a system of political or
social philosopy that rejects all forms of religious faith.  2. the view
that public education and other matters of civil policy should be
conducted without the introduction of a religious element.

Now, what's wrong with that?  Would you support a THEOCRACY more?

Please explain.
---
 * OLX 2.2 * Ever stop to think and forget to start again?
                              
Newsgroups: soc.culture.indian,soc.culture.pakistan,soc.culture.bangladesh
From: gaur@cs.uiuc.edu (Rajeeva Gaur)
Subject: Re: Some Secular Soul-Searching
Organization: University of Illinois, Dept. of Comp. Sci., Urbana, IL
Date: Fri, 11 Dec 1992 21:30:55 GMT

hyder@cs.utexas.edu (Syed Irfan Hyder) writes:

>In article <Dec11.051752.76998@yuma.ACNS.ColoState.EDU> kannan@lamar.ColoState.EDU (Kannan Subramanian) writes:
>>
>>If you, a Hindu, were to call home today and find out that your parents have 
>>been murdered by some marauding Islamic rioters, what would your reaction be? 

>Very simple. Demand from the Government to implement the Islamic law
>swiftly and quickly. There is no way a Muslim rioter who has killed
>unjustly and in opposition to all the rules of the Islamic law, an
>innocent person, can escape capital punishment.

>He must and should be hanged on the public square. According to Islam

Why do you have to preach Islam? Don't you have a simple answer based on
humanity? Are you suggesting that Islam preaches Government sponsored 
brutalities? Judging Islam from the human right abuses in Islamic countries,
I don't buy your argument. I think some of you bolster your arguments based
on the situation at hand - just too inconsistent.

- Rajeev

Newsgroups: soc.culture.indian
From: nd3375@meibm5.cen.uiuc.edu (Nishit Dey)
Subject: IDIOT MUSTAFA STRIKES AGAIN
Organization: University of Illinois at Urbana
Date: Wed, 16 Dec 1992 21:00:19 GMT

Mustafa Ibrahim from COLARADO write


Why dont you be ashamed yourself as a Bangladeshi ?  Yes your freedom
fighters killed 4 million (yes 4 million non-bengali people on the
name of banglaism). They looted the property of those poeple who didnot
want Bangladesh. The proof is still there. Yes 3 lacks innocent muslims
are living in regfugee Camps in the so called Sonar Bangla. Bangladesh
can never ever be prosper if there are bad prayers and wishes of the
refugees . God is destroying this country with floods and tornados. The
same contry (the poorest in the world) is now asking Pakistan for Help.
Please help me ! Please help me ! I am dying . I cannot survive . So
Pakistan is sending food and cloths in the name of God. The economy of
Sonar Bangla (:-)) is all screwed up. Now bengalis are getting fed up
with Sonar Bangla and running away to other countries . My country is
now a very good place for them. If you dont believe me come and see
how fast is growing the population of sonar bengalis :-). When somebody
ask them What happened to Sonar Bangla . They reply,  ' We dont know
it was a nightmare . We were mislead on the name of Banglaism .
There are hell lot of things that can be discussed on this net
but unfortunately I dont have enough time. I hope this is sufficent
for today .Go and apologize your God on the sins that you have committed.

******************************************************************************



Do you know that everybody in SCI , SCB and SCP are ashamed of your behavior?
WHat can we expect from a guy who doesn't know the difference between
sweet and sweat. Hey Mustafa I have told you many times, take rest.  Don't
get involved in this type of discussion.  Believe me you don't have that
much intellectual capability. Don't overwork your brain. You know what happens
when you pass high voltage through a low voltage appliance...


Bye


Nishit
Newsgroups: soc.culture.indian