HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: belboz@frc2.frc.ri.cmu.edu (Barry Brumitt)
Subject: Arrrggghhhh!
Reply-To: belboz@frc2.frc.ri.cmu.edu (Barry  Brumitt)
Organization: Field Robotics Center, CMU
Date: Fri, 8 Jan 1993 21:20:19 GMT

It's been 118 days since I made a skydive, I'm feeling mega-stressed from
work, and the skydiving pressure-release valve isn't available!

I think I'm going to burst. As soon as I get the new PD230, it's out to the DZ
and into the air... I've had *enough*.

Sigh.
Barry

ObSkydiving: If I hadn't've pushed him off of the step, his head would
probably have hit the elevator, and he'd've been dead.

ObSkydiving2: Ever seen someone cutaway while dropping between the strut and
step, while their lines were busy wrapping around the strut and step of the
Cessna? Don't. Not cool.



--
Barry Brumitt                        belboz@frc2.frc.ri.cmu.edu
RI Graduate Student                  (or) bb1v@andrew.cmu.edu
Field Robotics Center                Phone: (412) 268-7144
Carnegie Mellon University           "Who is John Galt?" $ Skydive!

Boring Disclaimer: The opinions contained herein do not necessarily
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=  represent those of the FRC, SCS, RI or even CMU. 




Newsgroups: rec.skydiving
From: wolstena@fraser.sfu.ca (Paul Wolstenholme)
Subject: Re: Winter Jumping
Organization: Simon Fraser University, Burnaby, B.C., Canada
Date: Mon, 11 Jan 1993 19:35:21 GMT

Robert_Magee@mindlink.bc.ca (Robert Magee) writes:

>I have noticed (ie. completely unscientific study,) that if the aircraft
>outside temp. gauge reads -20 F. before the door opens that skin damage can
>occur.  It is evident by extremely dry flakey skin that may persist for
>months or forever.  There is a case for stiffness and ice interfering with
>deployment as well as the problem of wearing too many layers and not being
>able to reach your pud.  Don't laugh it happened to me!

Gee Bob, if I remember correctly didn't it happen twice?

>The most obvious problem with extreme temp> skydiving is physiological in
>nature.  Your muscles simply do not stretch properly and reduces your
>performance.

>Brrrr! blue skies
>Bobby Magee

Ciao Paul

-- 
************************************************************************
* Paul Wolstenholme           *   Laziness is nothing more than the    *
* E-mail wolstena@sfu.ca        *  habit of resting before one gets    *
*                                 *   tire.                            *
Newsgroups: rec.skydiving,news.answers
From: belboz@frc2.frc.ri.cmu.edu (Barry Brumitt)
Subject: Re: Rumour that Piras bounced apparently true / CYPRES
Reply-To: belboz@frc2.frc.ri.cmu.edu (Barry  Brumitt)
Organization: Field Robotics Center, CMU
Date: Tue, 12 Jan 1993 18:53:41 GMT

In article <1993Jan12.152741.5840@bcrka451.bnr.ca> rcook@bnr.ca (Roger Cook) writes:


   While most people agree that Tom Piras would still be alive if he had
   activated his CYPRES, no one has commented on the fact that he may still
   be alive if he was wearing a helmet. The blow he received to his head was
   only enough to knock him out temporarily. Perhaps he would have remained
   conscious if he was wearing a Protec.

   Speculation, of course. Any comments???


Speculation indeed, but it makes good light of the "game" we play! We work to
minimize risks, and we *each choose to minimize them* as we deem appropriate. 

For instance, I wear a Protec, I'd like an AAD, and I just got a Dytter. I
always pull above 2k, unless traffic prevents, and now, since the ankle
injury, I'm not going to do any radical landings. I try to avoid jumping in
large groups when there are very inexperienced jumpers on the load. And so on,
and so on.

So, we all take whatever precautions we deem necessary. Seems to me all we can
do is make that judgement for ourselves, and act appropriately.

Evidence may lead us to make one decision or the other.

For example, I don't have an FXC because I don't beleive it would make me a
safer skydiver -- its tolerances aren't enough for me. I wear a Protec because
I beleive it does make me safer. If I got an AAD, I might not wear a protec,
and go ahead an wear a Frap Hat, because knock-out protection isn't as
necessary, and the Dytter is more comfortable in a Frap.


To summarize: I think  we all analyze the risks, and wear protective and
preventative apparatus as determined necessary and possible by our risk
analysis, comfort level, and financial capability. 


For Tom, I guess it was too important to "look cool" without a Protec and to
chance the midair collision... Though, of course, there may be other
circumstances!

Barry


--
Barry Brumitt                        belboz@frc2.frc.ri.cmu.edu
RI Graduate Student                  (or) bb1v@andrew.cmu.edu
Field Robotics Center                Phone: (412) 268-7144
Carnegie Mellon University           "Who is John Galt?" $ Skydive!

Boring Disclaimer: The opinions contained herein do not necessarily
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=  represent those of the FRC, SCS, RI or even CMU. 




Newsgroups: rec.skydiving
From: beutel@chdasic.sps.mot.com (Jim Beutel)
Subject: Re: AAD cutters vs. pullers
Reply-To: beutel@chdasic.sps.mot.com
Organization: Motorola SPS ASIC, Chandler, AZ
Date: Tue, 12 Jan 1993 21:24:50 GMT

Thanks every body for the input. Did not realize that the cutter
device was so robust. I would tend to agree with the cutter solution
now over the puller. Yea, I am waiting for the publishers clearing 
house van also....! 

The Sentinal and Mars units require recalibration at the factory per 
the sales literature. I did not recall any like verbage on the cypres.
Would be a long haul shipping the unit back to Germany.... Hopefully
locally certified DZ's can do the calibration work on most of these systems.

If there is any one out there that has purchased a cypres and chooses not
to activate the unit, let me know, I will take it off your hands. Having an
AAD and not using it is like riding a motorcycle down the Hollywood freeway 
with your helmet fastened to the seat lock and not on your head...

Regards,
Jim

---
-------------------------------------------------------
Jim Beutel	

Motorola SPS ASIC            beutel@chdasic.sps.mot.com
1300 N. Alma School Rd       Computer Operations 
M/S CH290  AZ50              office:  (602) 821-4967
Chandler, Arizona 85224	     telefax: (602) 821-4963
-------------------------------------------------------

The Surgeon General has determined that Skydiving is Extremely addicting. 



Newsgroups: rec.skydiving
From: mark@vti.com (Mark Smith)
Subject: Re: Rumour that Piras bounced apparently true / CYPRES
Reply-To: mark@vti.com
Organization: Virtual Technologies, Inc.
X-Newsreader: Tin 1.1 PL5
Date: Tue, 12 Jan 1993 18:33:42 GMT

Roger Cook (rcook@bnr.ca) wrote:
: Perhaps he would have remained conscious if he was wearing a Protec.

Interesting speculation.

The article described him being rotated forward in such a way that it
implied that he hit his face on the other jumpers' knees.  A helmet may
not have helped in this situation; I have not seen the video.
--
      /_\   Virtual                  Mark Smith          USPA D-13761
    /-~_  \    Technologies          mark@vti.com
  /      ~-_\     Incorporated       703-430-9247,   FAX 703-450-4560
/_____________\      46030 Manekin Plaza, Suite 160, Dulles, VA 20166

"I was simply furnishing a home.  I love music ... and I don't think
 a $130,000 indoor-outdoor stereo system is extravagant."

--Leona Helmsley, refuting charges that her lifestyle was excessive, 1990.
Newsgroups: rec.skydiving
From: tjreynol@zephyr.cair.du.edu (Jumpin Dude)
Subject: Fun with Inversions
Organization: University of Denver
Date: Mon, 11 Jan 93 02:05:40 GMT

How about 4F on the ground, 34F at 7,000!

Pretty weird to be warm in freefall and *freeeezing* under canopy!

Interestingly, noone was willing to go higher than 7,000 to see if the 
warm air ended, so Jan and I got the highest of the day. 

On the second load, the light was really weird, and everyone but Jan
lost depth perception over the snow and smacked the ground without 
ever even seeing it, which was pretty funny ;-)

Jan convinced me to leave the plane with my eyes closed, that was 
great! Like an out-of-body experience, I thought, try it!

Tim
199 jumps!

Newsgroups: rec.skydiving
From: WALKERK@ssvax1.ssd.loral.com ('Kent Walker')
Subject: Re: Helmets (was: Rumor thet Piras...)
Organization: Space Systems/Loral, Palo Alto, CA
Date: Tue, 12 Jan 1993 23:10:19 GMT
X-News-Reader: VMS NEWS 1.20

In <BELBOZ.93Jan12135341@hoe.frc.ri.cmu.edu> belboz@frc2.frc.ri.cmu.edu writes:

> In article <1993Jan12.152741.5840@bcrka451.bnr.ca> rcook@bnr.ca (Roger Cook) writes:
> 
> 
>    While most people agree that Tom Piras would still be alive if he had
>    activated his CYPRES, no one has commented on the fact that he may still
>    be alive if he was wearing a helmet. The blow he received to his head was
>    only enough to knock him out temporarily. Perhaps he would have remained
>    conscious if he was wearing a Protec.
> 
>    Speculation, of course. Any comments???

Roger: When I wrote to Mike Johnston asking why helmets (or lack of them) were
not included in incident reports, the reply was something like: "The type of
helmet is not reported because it is not asked for on the form.  The form does
not request the type of helmet because no one reports it."  Go figure!

> Speculation indeed, but it makes good light of the "game" we play! We work to
> minimize risks, and we *each choose to minimize them* as we deem appropriate. 
> 
> For instance, I wear a Protec, I'd like an AAD, and I just got a Dytter.

Barry: Is your helmet on when you get into the airplane and throughout the
takeoff and climbout?  I'm always amazed at the number of people who purchase a
helmet for safety and then are "too cool" to wear it during one of the most
dangerous periods of the sport.
Newsgroups: rec.skydiving
From: Robert_Magee@mindlink.bc.ca (Robert Magee)
Subject: Warmest New Years DZ?
Organization: MIND LINK! - British Columbia, Canada
Date: Sun, 10 Jan 1993 17:33:40 GMT

Here is an interesting question that begs for many opinions.

Where is the warmest, best equipped (ie Aircraft)_ Drop Zone in the world
during the the x-mas/New Years holidays?

I post this question because in the last three years I have been in Fla and
AZ and they were quite chilly and got weathered out for maybe half of week.
My SO and I are laying plans for an adventure next year.  Opinions?

Blue skies
Bobby Magee
D-371
Robert_Magee@mindlink.bc.ca

Newsgroups: rec.skydiving
From: jmills@cass.ma02.bull.com (John Luke Mills)
Subject: Altitude awareness during Freestyle
Organization: Bull World Wide Information Systems Inc.
Date: Wed, 13 Jan 1993 00:03:58 GMT


A while back Mike Horn asked what it was that makes us more concerned
about altitude awareness during freestyle.  I don't have the answer,
but all my scariest jumps this summer were freestyle jumps.  In
particular, I was sitting in under my main in the 1400' range twice.
This surprised and scared me.  I almost always intend to dump at 2500.

I still don't know for sure how it happened.  I think on one of them
my last altimeter check in freefall was a little lower than 4k.  I
think I did one quick backloop, flared and dumped.

Since then I have gotten even more conservative at the end of a
freestyle jump.  I want my right hand on the throwout handle at 3k,
even though I don't intend to pull and throw it out until 2.5k.

Then there was the time I blew a flip-thru, and instead of simply flairing,
tried to turn the motion into something else; that didn't work, try to
turn the new motion into something else, and WHOOOO, what is going
here, FLAIR.  All this was between 11 and 7 k so no big deal, but in
essence not being in control for 4k was scary.

-- 




Newsgroups: rec.skydiving
From: jld@lookout.it.uswc.uswest.com (Jeffrey DeMent)
Subject: Whereabouts of Dropzone Magazine
Organization: U S WEST Information Technologies
Distribution: usa
Date: Fri, 8 Jan 1993 21:03:37 GMT

Newsgroups: rec.skydiving
From: ehsnet!f15.n233.z1.fidonet.org!SKYDIVE (SKYDIVE)
Subject: Re: new otter at eloy
X-Mailer: mailout v1.24 released
Originator: uucp@romulus.ehs.uiuc.edu
Return-Path: <ehsnet!f15.n233.z1.FIDONET.ORG!SKYDIVE>
To: skydive@romulus.ehs.uiuc.edu
Organization: University of Illinois at Urbana
Date: Sun, 3 Jan 1993 23:15:44 GMT

Reply-to: Bill.Caefer@p0.f853.n102.z1.fidonet.org (Bill Caefer)
Fido-To: romulus!zephyr.cair.du.edu!tjreynol

 r> Does anybody have an idea what it costs to acquire a 'Super' Otter?

 r> Does Skydive Arizona really generate enough income to pay for these,
 r> or somebody down there just have a whole lot of dough?

Both.  <G>


--- Maximus 2.01wb
--- eecp 1.45 LM2 

 * Origin: <X> Infinity Ltd.  HST/DS (1:102/853)
--  
SKYDIVE - via FidoNet node 1:233/13
From: jatu@ee.tut.fi (Tuukkanen Janne)
Newsgroups: rec.skydiving
Subject: Re: Winter Jumping
Date: 11 Jan 1993 10:39:41 GMT
Organization: Tampere University of Technology
Distribution: world
NNTP-Posting-Host: ee.tut.fi

In article <003166j.14.726511604@axe.acadiau.ca> 003166j@axe.acadiau.ca (JASON WILLIAM JARVIS) writes:
>	I was just wondering if there was a limit as to how cold it could be 
>before it isn't safe to jump, other than the physical aspect of it.  Does 
>cold affect the performance of the 'chute in any way?  This might have been 
>on before, but I can't remember.

 I've jumped from 3000 m, when there were about -20 degrees (Celsius) and
it wasn't bad, because we had so much clothings on, that after opening
canopy and flying to the ground, there was really HOT. It has been much
worse at summer, when it's winding from north and there is +20 degrees
on ground, but when you get to the 3000 m and open a door, you realisize
that there is -12 degrees outside and you're wearing only t-shirt and
shortses...
 After all, when jumpin at cold season and been weared good, there isn't
much problems (except jumping isn't very funny...). Be sure you have
covered your wrists and ankles well, and use such gloves that you can
operate all your handles well.
 On the first time a snow rain looks very beatiful from free fall, but
RW in that sh*t... yack!
 I have never heard that F-111 had a problems in low temperatures. When
those Z-proposity canopies came, there were rumors that they will
break in -20 degrees, but it was only rumor.

>Jason W. Jarvis


-- 
                                                              Janne Tuukkanen
     VW-Beetle, parachute and mirrorshades, all I need!       jatu@cc.tut.fi
Newsgroups: rec.skydiving
From: king@glacier.Stanford.EDU (Robin King)
Subject: Re: Eloy Fatality
Organization: Center for Integrated Systems, Stanford University, California
Date: Tue, 5 Jan 93 01:43:12 GMT

In article <1993Jan4.224845.2730@aio.jsc.nasa.gov> horn@tegan.jsc.nasa.gov (Mark Horn) writes:
>In article <1993Jan4.200350.6167@cascade.Stanford.EDU> king@glacier.Stanford.EDU (Robin King) writes:
>
>>BTW, if I were mainly doing freestyle I'd get a Cypres AAD.  And
>>DEFINATELY a Dytter or two.
>
>Why?  Because you're alone and don't have anyone to fall back on in case you
>do lose alt awareness...? 

Well, partly, but mostly because with all those backloops you might not be 
noticing the horizon as much -- one more visual cue shot to hell.  I'd also 
imagine that, if you had a big routine worked out, you couldn't/wouldn't 
look at your altimeter as often because it's inconvenient (hands are in 
back, shouldn't move your head, etc.).  I don't do much freestyle so maybe 
that's not true.  

The Cypres is more accurate than the FXC, esp in freestyle situations
because it has an algorithm to help judge actual altitude rather than
JUST pressure altitude.  It would be worth buying a decent AAD if I
thought I might be more likely to lose alt awareness.
Regarding a Dytter, well, it's just cheap insurance.  

> Hmm...I've done probably 100 freestyle jumps, and I
>find myself more altitude aware then when I'm doing RW.

I guess it all depends on the person and situation.  Why do you say
you're more altitude aware during freestyle than with RW?  I'd be
interested in knowing...

Robin
Newsgroups: rec.skydiving
From: eap@leland.Stanford.EDU (Eric Perozziello)
Subject: Re: CYPRES
Organization: DSG, Stanford University, CA 94305, USA
Date: Tue, 12 Jan 93 21:44:54 GMT

>I doubt Piras was too concerned about how cool others thought he looked.
>I wear a protec, because the sport is simply "fun" to me- I'm not a 
>competitor. I suppose if I were in competition, I might consider a
>protec. But certainly NOT just to "look cool".
>
^^^^^^^^  er, I meant fraphat.....sorry!


Newsgroups: rec.skydiving
From: wolstena@fraser.sfu.ca (Paul Wolstenholme)
Subject: Re: Palm Springs DZ (Hemmet?)
Organization: Simon Fraser University, Burnaby, B.C., Canada
Date: Mon, 11 Jan 1993 20:00:09 GMT

Robert_Magee@mindlink.bc.ca (Robert Magee) writes:

>Hullo netland,  could someone out there check their Parachute Pages and post
>the phone number and any details on the closest DZ to Palm Springs?  I have
>heard rumours of a seasonal DZ callde Hemmet (sp).

Bob you might want to talk to Norm Forbes out at Chilliwack.  I think he was
there a couple of years ago.  I think he said it was kind of a hoky DZ.

>Any info appreciated.

Ciao Paul

-- 
************************************************************************
* Paul Wolstenholme           *   Laziness is nothing more than the    *
* E-mail wolstena@sfu.ca        *  habit of resting before one gets    *
*                                 *   tire.                            *
Newsgroups: rec.skydiving
From: Robert_Magee@mindlink.bc.ca (Robert Magee)
Subject: Re: Winter Jumping
Organization: MIND LINK! - British Columbia, Canada
Date: Sat, 9 Jan 1993 20:36:50 GMT

I have noticed (ie. completely unscientific study,) that if the aircraft
outside temp. gauge reads -20 F. before the door opens that skin damage can
occur.  It is evident by extremely dry flakey skin that may persist for
months or forever.  There is a case for stiffness and ice interfering with
deployment as well as the problem of wearing too many layers and not being
able to reach your pud.  Don't laugh it happened to me!

The most obvious problem with extreme temp> skydiving is physiological in
nature.  Your muscles simply do not stretch properly and reduces your
performance.

Brrrr! blue skies
Bobby Magee
From: bchurch@oucsace.cs.ohiou.edu (Robert Church)
Newsgroups: rec.skydiving
Subject: Bottom man and fatalities
Date: 6 Jan 93 18:04:50 GMT
Organization: Ohio University C.S. Dept, Athens

Is there any definite word on why the low jumper opened below Piras.
If it was jumper error that's one thing, but if it was caused by equipment
malfunctioning we find out what happened to possibly prevent a reoccurence.

Bob Church
bchurch@oucsace.cs.ohiou.edu
Newsgroups: rec.skydiving
From: jmills@cass.ma02.bull.com (John Luke Mills)
Subject: Re: AAD cutters vs. pullers
Organization: Bull World Wide Information Systems Inc.
Date: Tue, 12 Jan 1993 23:41:06 GMT


The CYPRES requires that ONLY the special closing loops supplied with
it are used.  I don't remember what they are made of.  They appear to
be much thinner than a typical closing loop.  This eliminates the
variable of not knowing the compatibility of a particular loop your
rigger might make and the cutter.

I know that it is not much data, but I made about 130 jumps this
summer with my CYPRES.  About half of that freestyle and the other
half RW.  It has never fired, either appropriately of inappropriately.

I don't believe anyone has reacted negatively to my using it, but on
the other hand, I don't make a point of announcing or hiding the fact
that I have it either.
--
From: moret@disuns2.epfl.ch (Pierre Moret)
Newsgroups: rec.skydiving
Subject: Re: hang gliding helmets for skydiving
Date: 10 Jan 93 18:02:02 GMT
Reply-To: moret@disuns2.epfl.ch (Pierre Moret)
Organization: Ecole Polytechnique Federale de Lausanne

In article <1993Jan9.000448.1880@newstand.syr.edu> kcameron@erc.cat.syr.edu (Ken Cameron) writes:
>My gang just returned from Eloy and saw some helmets that might make
>winter jumping better. They were told that these new helmets were
>for hang gliding but have these great advantages. Aerodynamic, very
>wide field of vision, and good protection from the freezing wind.
>If anyone has address/phone/etc... on where these could be found
>let me know and I will pass it on. (...)


No problem! We (Second Chance = Swiss natl 8-way) are jumping with these
helmets and they offer a very good protection for fast rw. No goggles, no wind
on the face and less noise. The only thing you have to do is to put some
anti-fog cream once a day and it's ok. Surprisingly, the visual field is much
better with this helmet than with goggles!!! Hard to believe this, but try it
once...

Someone at Eloy asked me for the address, but I didn't see him the next days.
Sorry. 

The address where to order these helmets is:

Richard Cueo
16, rue Dugommier
F-75012 Paris
France


This is a member of the French 8-way. I don't want to give the phone, because
he is very often away from home to train... Write to him and specify your
head size. BTW the price is rather high: about 1600 FF (=280-300$)

Blue Skies


--Pierre     moret@di.epfl.ch
Newsgroups: rec.skydiving
From: eap@leland.Stanford.EDU (Eric Perozziello)
Subject: Re: CYPRES
Organization: DSG, Stanford University, CA 94305, USA
Date: Tue, 12 Jan 93 21:42:25 GMT

>

[stuff deleted]

>To summarize: I think  we all analyze the risks, and wear protective and
>preventative apparatus as determined necessary and possible by our risk
>analysis, comfort level, and financial capability. 
>
>
>For Tom, I guess it was too important to "look cool" without a Protec and to
>chance the midair collision... Though, of course, there may be other
>circumstances!
>
>

Well, I know there are some "mentally deprived" folks out there that would
gladly compromise safety for "looking cool", but I think the main reason
people choose a frap hat/nothing over a protec is for better freefall
flight.  The helmet is a big drag (no pun intended). 

I doubt Piras was too concerned about how cool others thought he looked.
I wear a protec, because the sport is simply "fun" to me- I'm not a 
competitor. I suppose if I were in competition, I might consider a
protec. But certainly NOT just to "look cool".

-Eric



Newsgroups: rec.skydiving
From: jld@lookout.it.uswc.uswest.com (Jeffrey DeMent)
Subject: Whereabouts of Dropzone Magazine
Keywords: NorthWest Skydivers
Organization: U S WEST Advanced Technologies
Distribution: usa
Date: Fri, 8 Jan 1993 15:18:33 GMT

I need some help from someone in the Seattle area.  On a trip to Kapowsin
in August of last year (1992) I picked up a copy of a little DZ newspaper
called "Dropzone Magazine" that catered to skydivers in the NorthWest.
Since my wife and I both loved Kapowsin :) I thought I would subscribe when
I returned to Denver so I could keep tabs on the DZ while I planned my next
trip there.

I sent them money in August but have not received a single issue.  Does
anyone out there have an address -- or better a phone number -- for this
publication ?

Jeff
B-15105
_____________________________________________________________________

 Jeffrey L. DeMent                                  _._._._._._._
 U S WEST Advanced Technologies                    (_|_|_|_|_|_|_)
 1475 Lawrence Street, Suite 400                    ` \` | | '/ '
 Denver, Colorado  80202                             ` \`| |'/ '
                                                      ` \| |/ '
 Phone: (303) 595-0519                                 ` \0/ '
 FAX:   (303) 592-6532                                  `'#`'
                                                          ^
 Internet: jld@advtech.uswest.com
_____________________________________________________________________
-- 
Jeff
_____________________________________________________________________

 Jeffrey L. DeMent                                  _._._._._._._
Newsgroups: rec.skydiving