HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: tmr@wdl1.wdl.loral.com (Tim Ryan)
Newsgroups: rec.autos
Subject: Re: Accuracy of Used car pricing guides
Date: 5 Jan 93 22:00:58 GMT
Distribution: na
Organization: loral western development labs

In article <9027@dirac.physics.purdue.edu>, stnd@bohr.physics.purdue.edu (Scott N. Dickson) writes:

> I was looking at the "Pace" used car pricing guide the other day.
> They conveniently forgot to mention where they were getting their
> numbers.  Does anybody know??
> Thanks,
> Scott

Pace says its information is gathered from private sales and DMV info!
In the past few weeks I've been looking for a used car, so I purcased a
Pace Used car Buying guide, the prices looked great! The dealers on the 
other hand refuse to negociate the price any where near Pace. 
And comparing the Pace Used car buying guide to the 1993 Jan-Feb Blue 
Book, Pace was about 15% below Wholesale Blue Book and know where 
near Retail.
I thought we were in a resession. In my mine I thought I could get a good 
deal, (a fare deal) untrue! The Dealers in the Bay area would not come off
Wholesale plus 1K. Most people who are buing cars know that the dealers 
rarely every purchase a vehicale for wholesale, its usually well under.
So there making at least 2k off every car, if you give them 1k over 
wholesale, not a bad profit for 1 days work.

Best of luck 
I'm still looking for a good deal!
Later,
Tim
Standard disclaimer applies
Newsgroups: rec.autos
From: asher@wam.umd.edu (Yes it's me....Asher)
Subject: Handling of 85 Toyota Celicas
Organization: University of Maryland, College Park
Distribution: usa
Date: Wed, 6 Jan 1993 16:57:04 GMT

	Hi !

		I recently bought a used 85 Toyota Celica. Overall, it's 
	alright, but the handling sucks. Whenever the car goes over bumps,
	it literally "shifts", that is, it just "jumps". I used to own a 82
	Tercel and it could handle turns (and bumps) at high speeds really
	well. I was wondering if anyone else has similar problems with 
	Celica's or if anyone has any advice that I could use. Thanks.
	BTW, I have thought about my shocks. They are in fairly good shape,
	and I  doubt if they are the cause of the problem. Thanks.


							.......Asher.


P.S. I'm not sure if this has been discussed before, but has anyone used
     any synthetic lubricant such as Slick 50 or whatever. Any that you
     reccomend ?
From: stecz@pencom.com (John Steczkowski)
Newsgroups: rec.autos
Subject: Re: Mazda RX7: should I buy one?
Date: 4 Jan 93 14:41:26 GMT
Reply-To: stecz@pencom.com
Distribution: austin
Organization: Pencom Software

In article <105949@bu.edu> heiser@acs.bu.edu (William Heiser) writes:
> In article <1993Jan3.075544.7798@athena.mit.edu> boo@athena.mit.edu  
(Christopher J Foley) writes:
> >Well, I'm looking to buy a used mazda RX7, in the 81-84 years, probably.
> 
> I would expect an old RX-7 like that to be very expensive to maintain.  I
> think I've glanced at them when looking at other cars in Consumer Reports and
> the like, and noticed that they were rated as being far above average in cost
> to repair.

Actually, they are cheap to maintain.  Have the car checked out before you buy  
it by someone who has the equipment to do a compression check on a rotary  
engine (not a normal compression gauge).  Make sure it doesn't smoke (it might  
smoke a little at cold starts, that's ok).  Let it warm up, rev it with the  
radiator cap off, and be sure you don't see bubbles.  If the Mazda logo on the  
left side of the engine (near the oil filler) is covered with oil, that is a  
danger sign.  

Even if you need to replace the engine, a short block is available from Mazda  
from about $1200 (installed with warranty).  So engine replacements aren't bad.   
I bought one with 106,000 miles and sold it with 144,000 miles, (I bought it  
specifically to use as an autocrosser).  When I sold it, the original engine  
and transmission were fine (it had been run at high revs and overrevved many  
times).  The only things that broke were normal wear items for a car with that  
many miles, fuel pump, alternator, water pump, etc.  The car was completely  
reliable, and never stranded me anywhere.  I highly recommend the RX as a cheap  
fun sports car, maybe in a couple of years (when my Formual Vee is complete),  
I'll buy another one.

Why don't you send some questions to the RX-7 mailing list, they can help you  
know what to look for. (rx7club@cbjjn.att.com)

--
  John Steczkowski                        stecz@pencom.com
  "Achilles raised his spear, took careful aim, and hurled."
  					    from the Iliad
From: amh2@ns1.cc.lehigh.edu (ALOIS M. HIMSL)
Newsgroups: rec.autos
Subject: RE: Car Dealers
Date: 5 Jan 93 18:25:47 GMT
Organization: Lehigh University

I think almost everyone has had a rude run-in with a car dealer at least once
in their lives.  Dealers, in general, are NOT for the customers. They tend to
be overpriced, not willing to negotiate, don't honor their warranties, and are
just plain rude!  A person has the option of complaining to a corporate
headquarters, but this is ineffective. The best way to "get back" at the
dealer is to not give them your business and just spread the word. I purchased
my current car at a dealership, and believe me, that was also the last car. A
person can get a much better deal by buying a car privately.  Though you may
not buy a brand new car you can usually get a very decent used car for a lower
price. Also you can get an idea how the car was maintained by just knowing who
the owner was. Furthermore, you can also get a tax break also, when the time
comes to register a car. People tend to forget that the dealership will not
cut you any breaks on sales tax whatsoever, and that can add up to several
hundred, if not several thousand to the car. So if you are fed up like I am,
just don't give the dealers your business.  When business is bad, only then
will they change their attitudes.
Al Himsl
"Take a walk on the wild side"
Newsgroups: rec.autos,rec.autos.driving,rec.autos.tech
From: mgarber@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (Max D Garber)
Subject: ++88 Taurus GL $4200??-Help.++
Organization: The Ohio State University
Distribution: na
Date: Fri, 8 Jan 1993 16:50:21 GMT

I found a 1988 Ford Taurus GL for $4200 and would like to know if this
vehicle would be a good buy.  It has the following options:

Air
PS
PB
P Windows
P Locks
V6
Trunk/Gas gate release
74,2000 miles

Please email me and let me know your opinion.

Thanks.
-- 
1983 Pontiac 2000 SE   1986 Mercury Topaz GS     1983 Honda NIGHTHAWK 650
    'BABY BOOOM'          'MS. BABY BOOOM'           'MINT CONDITION'
"Car-Audio for Sale"     Under Construction     "Bike For Sale-Make Offer"
       'HIS'                   'HERS'                    'THEIRS'
From: hovnania@iftccu.ca.boeing.com (Paul Hovnanian)
Date: Mon, 11 Jan 1993 18:10:49 GMT
Subject: Re: Fixing Rear Defroster?
Organization: Boeing Commercial Airplane Group
Newsgroups: rec.autos

>because the lines have been scratched or something. Is there any way
>to sort of patch a scratch (assuming that's what it is)? Thanks!

Assuming that's what it is, I have heard of a conductive paint made for this
purpose. I don't know who sells it.


Newsgroups: rec.autos,rec.autos.tech
From: jayc@hubcap.clemson.edu (Jay Crawford)
Subject: Red Line MTL
Keywords: Red Line
Organization: Clemson University
Date: Wed, 6 Jan 1993 16:23:11 GMT

I'd like to change the gear box oil in my Saab 900 to something that will 
make it shift a bit smoother and hopefully reduce wear-and-tear.  I have
heard Red Line MTL is a good product.  Does anyone have any good/bad    
experiences with Red Line they can share with me? Also, where's a good place to mail order it?  Thanks.

-- 
Jay Crawford          
jayc@hubcap.clemson.edu
From: kenny@osf.org (Kenneth Crudup)
Newsgroups: rec.autos
Subject: Re: Saturn Crashworthiness (was: The Amazing Cut Away Saturn)
Date: 5 Jan 93 01:23:41 GMT
Organization: Open Software Foundation

In article <1993Jan4.230737.28083@cabot.balltown.cma.COM>
welty@cabot.balltown.cma.COM (richard welty) writes:

...well, it doesn't matter. Heeeeeess baaaaaa-aaaack! 

Posting problems, you say?

	-Kenny
-- 
Kenny Crudup, Contractor, OSF DCE QA
OSF, 11 Cambridge Center, Cambridge, MA 02142	+1 617 621 7306
kenny@osf.osf.org			OSF has nothing to do with this post.
	  Religion: The longest-running gag ever played on Mankind.
From: andrew@frip.WV.TEK.COM (Andrew Klossner)
Newsgroups: rec.autos
Subject: Re: Car Phones
Date: 6 Jan 93 20:17:35 GMT
Reply-To: andrew@frip.wv.tek.com
Organization: Tektronix Color Printers, Wilsonville, Oregon

[]

	"The reason that ... car phones should be banned in moving
	vehicles is that that phone conversations ARE more distracting
	than casual conversations in a car.  People get very mentally
	involved ..."

It's interesting to note that the same argument was made when radios
were first introduced into cars.

  -=- Andrew Klossner  (andrew@frip.wv.tek.com)
                       (uunet!tektronix!frip.WV.TEK!andrew)
Newsgroups: rec.autos
From: wesf@boi.hp.com (Wes Fujii)
Subject: Re: FORD F150 Pickup
Date: Mon, 11 Jan 1993 15:59:24 GMT
Organization: Hewlett-Packard / Boise, Idaho
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1.4 PL6]

 (CJOHNSON@MAINE.MAINE.EDU) wrote:
: I just have to tell all of you how Ford MotorCo has treated me over the years
: I brought my first Ford in 1987 a F150 4x4 truck We have had it six half years
: it has 61000 miles on it all most all of it on dirt roads and half of that
: useing the 4x4 wheel drive. During this time I had the spark plus changed once
: not because they needed it, but I wanted to. It has been to the ford garage
: because we thought we should have it checked (felt guilty) but most of the
: time nothing needed to be done. And if it did FORD aways took care of it, yes
: they paid for it. Buy the way they even painted the truck for us this winter
: Hows that for service. I can tell you now that are next truck will be a FORD

I love my F-150, too ('88 XLT Lariet).

Wes Fujii
________________________________________________________________
      ___   ___ ___ 
     /  /  /  //  /
    /  /__/  //  /    A real motor is an Oldsmobile Rocket 455
   /  HURST //  /     "This is NOT the new generation of Olds"
  /  /  /  //  /_______ 
 /__/  /__//  //  ___  \
          /  //  /   \  \       Wes "BANZAI" Fujii
         /  //  /OLDS/  /          Boise, Idaho
        /  / \  \___/  /      wesf@hpdmd48.boi.hp.com
       /__/   \_______/ 

Newsgroups: rec.autos
From: jwg@acd4.acd.com (jim grey)
Subject: Re: rocks from overpass (was Re: Acura Integra Bodywork. Costs)
Organization: /u/jwg/.organization
Date: Fri, 8 Jan 1993 15:20:10 GMT

In article <2443@shaman.wv.tek.com> andrew@frip.WV.TEK.COM (Andrew Klossner) writes:

	   "some little kid who had nothing better to do and dropped a 10
	   pound rock or something off an overpass and hit my hood as I
	   was on the freeway. the rock hit my hood, dented it, scratched
	   off a lot of paint then hit my fender."

   We had a rash of such incidents here in the Portland Oregon area.  If
   your rock had dropped a split second later, it might have gone through
   your windshield.  We've had people sent to the hospital with destroyed
   faces.

     -=- Andrew Klossner  (andrew@frip.wv.tek.com)
			  (uunet!tektronix!frip.WV.TEK!andrew)


About twenty minutes east of here (Terre Haute) on I-70, last year a
woman bled to death when a (large) rock thrown from an overpass went through
her windshield and cut through her neck.  The police are still looking for
the responsible party.  This is serious stuff.

jim grey
jwg@acd4.acd.com
Newsgroups: rec.autos
From: cherkaue@ee.rochester.edu (Brian Cherkauer)
Subject: Re: Saturn Do It Yourself Mtce.
Organization: Univ of Rochester, College of Engineering and Applied Science
Date: Fri, 8 Jan 1993 06:21:19 GMT

In article <184850@pyramid.pyramid.com> lstowell@pyrnova.pyramid.com.pyramid.com (Lon Stowell) writes:
>   [...] I haven't
>   had any problems with any lifetime lubed cars (german, japan, swedish
>   and us models) with well over 100K miles on any one of them [...]

You have obviously never owned a mid-eighties Ford Escort with lifetime
lubed tie-rod ends which require replacement every 30K miles. (At $100
each unless you do it yourself, I might add.)

-Brian 
  cherkaue@ee.rochester.edu
Newsgroups: rec.autos
From: rjwade@rainbow.ecn.purdue.edu (Robert J. Wade)
Subject: Re: Saturn Do It Yourself Mtce.
Organization: Purdue University Engineering Computer Network
Date: Fri, 8 Jan 1993 14:29:16 GMT

In article <1993Jan8.062119.22392@ee.rochester.edu> cherkaue@ee.rochester.edu (Brian Cherkauer) writes:
>In article <184850@pyramid.pyramid.com> lstowell@pyrnova.pyramid.com.pyramid.com (Lon Stowell) writes:
>>   [...] I haven't
>>   had any problems with any lifetime lubed cars (german, japan, swedish
>>   and us models) with well over 100K miles on any one of them [...]
>
>You have obviously never owned a mid-eighties Ford Escort with lifetime
>lubed tie-rod ends which require replacement every 30K miles. (At $100
>each unless you do it yourself, I might add.)
>
>-Brian 

hey, come on now...my 1986 escort gt tie-rod ends lasted 32k!  of course ford
designed the car to have inner and outer tie-rod ends...i paid $125 to have 
all 4 replaced!
From: bense@oasys.dt.navy.mil (Ron Bense)
Newsgroups: rec.autos
Subject: Re: Before Buying Japanese.
Date: 8 Jan 93 16:51:59 GMT
Reply-To: bense@oasys.dt.navy.mil (Ronald Bense)
Distribution: usa
Organization: Carderock Division, NSWC, Bethesda, MD

In rec.autos, kokerj@vccnw05.its.rpi.edu (James Matthew Kokernak) writes:
>In article <issa.726456551@cwis> issa@cwis.unomaha.edu (Issa El-Hazin) writes:
>>hhm@cbnewsd.cb.att.com (herschel.h.mayo) writes:

>The above statement does not imply that German cars cost less to repair,
>it simply states that the parts are not marked up as much (% wise).
>Incidentally, I did a front brake job on my '87 VW about a month ago,
>including new rotors. All the OEM parts cost as follows:
>2 rotors @ $12.95 each
>1 set of pads @$14.95
>1 caliper bolt @$1.80
>---------------------
>      total:   $42.65

I own a Toyota Celica Alltrac.
These are the prices for similar parts, from the dealership.
rotor ~$80 each (vented heavy duty - car weighs 3300# and is performance)
pads $18

BTW, this is a limited production car. I know that Honda CV joints,
should you ever need one (Typically at 80-120k) will run you about $320
for just the part. Labor, I believe, is about another $200. Ow, what
a feeling.... :)

BTW, this was just for info, as some of you know, I've less than flattering
things to say about my car, and a stack of receipts to prove it. :(
Then again, it appears mine was almost a lemon. Guess it's a good thing
I almost qualify as a mechanic!

Ron                          Think about this one (seen on a bumper sticker):
			     The road to hell is bumper-to-bumper
			     Make a U-turn to God.
The irony is priceless.
From: keung@teecs.UUCP (Joseph Keung)
Date: Tue, 5 Jan 1993 18:41:58 GMT
Subject: Re: Re: Flyin' Flywheels
Organization: Litton Systems, Toronto ONT
Newsgroups: rec.autos

 w w w>
From: grant@pentagon-gw.army.mil (Pete Grant)
Newsgroups: rec.autos
Subject: Re: J. D. Powers Survey:  The 5+ Years of Ownership Experience
Date: 6 Jan 93 02:58:50 GMT
Organization: U.S. Army Artificial Intelligence Center, The Pentagon

In article <1992Dec28.155650.26125@rchland.ibm.com> alter@rchland.vnet.ibm.com writes:
><stuff deleted>
>
>|> Conclusion:
>|> 
>|> If you can afford it, buy Honda.  It is a symbol of American excellence in 
>|> engineering and manufacturing.
>|> 
>
>Excuse me, but I believe this is WRONG!  The Honda's are built in America with
>parts made in Japan.  Very little is done except exploit The manufacturing
>capability of the US.  Very little is added to our economy by building these
>cars here.  They have to be engineered here to add to our economy.
>
>
I think you have the right idea but your choice of words wasn't quite
right.  

Hondas are assembled in the US (final assembly only).  Nearly
all the parts come from Japan.  Honda does not exploit US manufacturing
capacity at all.  The assembly line workers hired by Honda's Marysville
plant were mostly young farm boys and girls with little automotive manu-
facturing experience.  Although this gimmick required closer supervision
than hiring UAW people, the overall result was a significant reduction in
labor costs and, as only the final assembly was being performed, did not
have a large impact on reliability of the vehicles.

Note that this method resulted in utilizing Japanese management and super-
visors and giving only the lowest menial assembly jobs to the local
Americans.  You're right -- this adds very little to our economy.

BTW, the savings in labor costs was much more than the difference between
the "farm boy's" and UAW member's wages.  The average worker in the big
three is 40 years old which results in increased health insurance  and
retirement plan costs.  Honda can work their young men 20 years before
it too has to face pension plans and other expenses.

Pete.
Newsgroups: rec.autos
From: eliot@stalfos.engr.washington.edu (eliot)
Newsgroups: rec.autos
Subject: Re: Why is US engine technology so retrograde?
Date: 12 Jan 93 20:52:22 GMT
Article-I.D.: engr.Jan12.205348.19431
Organization: clearer than blir
NNTP-Posting-Host: stalfos.engr.washington.edu

In article <184903@pyramid.pyramid.com> lstowell@pyrnova.pyramid.com.pyramid.com (Lon Stowell) writes:

[somebody else said]
>>What about the Rolls-Royce/Bentley 6.7L V-8?

that's british.. the poster said *german*

>   Watch your trimming.  I DIDN'T write any of that stuff.

>   Mercedes has a 6.9 liter V-8.   

past tense.  mercedes *had* a 6.9 V8, just as Cadillac had a 8.2.  the
biggest v8 that benz makes today is either 5 or 5.6 liters.  the biggest
engine of the current benz range, as someone else pointed out is 6 liters,
but that's in a v12.


eliot
Newsgroups: rec.autos
From: appy@churchill.ColumbiaSC.NCR.COM (Pratul.Sharma)
Subject: Re: Geo Prizm vs. Honda Civic
Organization: NCR Corp., Columbia SC
Date: Tue, 12 Jan 93 16:16:58 GMT

In article <Kuyper-120193201635@crackle.mech.nwu.edu> Kuyper@casbah.acns.nwu.edu (Ed Kuyper) writes:
>In article <0fIRziK00UzxE37Ylp@andrew.cmu.edu>, jr4q+@andrew.cmu.edu (Jason
>M. Roth) wrote:
>> 
>> This has been mentioned before, but not strongly enough for my tastes:
>> check out Saturn! Among other things, since you're looking at 4-doors,
>> I'm assuming size is an issue; Saturns are _much_ bigger on the inside
>> than Geos or Civics (actually, almost as big as Accords, Honda's "big"
>> car), and in every way wonderful. I'm 6'-1", and was comfy in the back
>> behind my dad (6'-4") driving (who had no problems fitting).
>
>I am 6'-5" and I had a aweful time fitting into a Saturn. I couldn't sit in
>it without severly contorting my body and even then when I looked straight
>ahead I was looking into the celing of the car. I was very enthusiastic
>about Saturns but they are just too damn small. Mind you I drive a jeep
>which is a wet dream for head room.
>
>
> Plus,
>> Saturn features many touches not available in this range (even from
>> almighty Honda), such as the bags, the paint job, the traction control
>> (pretty cheap, although of course requiring auto), etc. And the best
>> dealers this side of $30k.
>> 

I am 5' -10" and 194Lbs I too found it difficult getting into a saturn.
Even with the seat pushed back and the wheel pushed up, my legs touched the 
wheel. Moreover, the seats are too narrow for comfort. I love the car 
otherwise but these factors were to important to ignore. I am now considering 
buying a GEO PRISM.

>> JMR
>> HSK
appy
>> 
>> '93 SL2, blue-green.


-- 
________________________________________________________________________
Pratul Sharma 
E-Mail: appy@churchill.ColumbiaSC.NCR.COM 
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Newsgroups: rec.autos
From: buck@granite.ma30.bull.com (Ken Buck)
Subject: Re: pop-up lights
Organization: Bull HN Informations Systems Inc.
Date:  6 Jan 93 16:26:48 GMT

bbarkey@lark.utah.edu (Brian Barkey) writes:
[ re: Which was the first production car with pop-up headlights? ]
>>What are their advantages/disadvantages?
>	advantages: looks cool, attracts members of the opposite sex

the 'opposite sex' of what?  the car?
Newsgroups: rec.autos
From: rjwade@rainbow.ecn.purdue.edu (Robert J. Wade)
Subject: Re: Lotus Elan...why did it fail?
Organization: Purdue University Engineering Computer Network
Date: Tue, 12 Jan 1993 16:27:35 GMT

In article <C0po24.4xw@vcd.hp.com> dmunroe@vcd.hp.com (Dave Munroe) writes:
>daveb@lotus writes:
>
>[ Elan stuff]
>
>
>>If they dropped the price of a Turbo-esprit another 20 to 44k, they
>>still might move some units.
>
>I'd be surprised if anyone is really paying $90K for one.  I would expect
>"new" 91's and 92's to be selling nearer to $60K.
>
>-Dave
>
>>Windows/NT - the VMS of the 90s
>
>As good as VMS, hm?  Nahh, g'wan!  Besides, it's just fartware now, eh?

and VMS=Vms Mostly Sucks, a recursive slam.
oh, obligatory car comment:  yep...them loti, they cost way to much!

Newsgroups: rec.autos
From: jnielsen@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (John F Nielsen)
Subject: Re: Before Buying Japanese.
Organization: The Ohio State University
Distribution: usa
Date: Thu, 7 Jan 1993 16:20:35 GMT

In article <1993Jan7.152825.11975@cbnewsd.cb.att.com> hhm@cbnewsd.cb.att.com (herschel.h.mayo) writes:


>Nope, the 90, and 91s in the parking lot are all starting to sprout a crop of
>rust flowers around the edges of rocker panels and body seams.

Tell that to my 1985 Camry which has practically no rust
whatsoever(been all it's life in Ohio). Would you also care to tell me
which cars you are seeing with this rust cropping up? "Are all" is a
pretty strong statement. So, if I go out and look at the cars in lots
around here and find contradictory evidence what will you say then?

>funny that the Germans don't seem to have nearly as large a markup on their parts,
>but then, they ship by tunnel through the earth.

Huh? For what cars are you talking about. So you are saying for
example it is cheaper to get a BMW repaired than a Toyota?
If you are so certain wehy don't you quote some prices?

>In a Suzuki Samurai?  Oh that's Japan Bashing right? Funny that all those people 
>claiming that the Samurai was not prone to roll over seemed to miss the fact that
>Suzuki dropped the Samurai, and next year introduced the Sidekick. A model that
>is virtually identical in all respects except one. It has a WIDER wheel base.

I'll have to check to be sure, but I think they still sell the
Samurai. Also, CU an American company claimed that the Samurai was
prone to roll over.


john
-- 
John Nielsen   MAGNUS Consultant            ______   ______   __  __	
jnielsen@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu         /\  __ \ /\  ___\ /\ \/\ \
                                           \ \ \/\ \\ \___  \\ \ \_\ \
  Back off man, I'm a Scientist!            \ \_____\\/\_____\\ \_____\
Organization: University of Maine System
Date: Friday, 8 Jan 1993 15:08:28 EST
From: <CJOHNSON@MAINE.MAINE.EDU>
Newsgroups: rec.autos
Subject:    FORD F150 Pickup

I just have to tell all of you how Ford MotorCo has treated me over the years
I brought my first Ford in 1987 a F150 4x4 truck We have had it six half years
it has 61000 miles on it all most all of it on dirt roads and half of that
useing the 4x4 wheel drive. During this time I had the spark plus changed once
not because they needed it, but I wanted to. It has been to the ford garage
because we thought we should have it checked (felt guilty) but most of the
time nothing needed to be done. And if it did FORD aways took care of it, yes
they paid for it. Buy the way they even painted the truck for us this winter
Hows that for service. I can tell you now that are next truck will be a FORD