From: jhk6@cunixb.cc.columbia.edu (John H Kim)
Subject: Re: HERO vs. GURPS: Magic
Reply-To: jhk6@cunixb.cc.columbia.edu (John H Kim)
Organization: Columbia University
Distribution: rec
Date: Fri, 31 Jul 1992 16:47:29 GMT

sos@oz.plymouth.edu (Steffan O'Sullivan) writes:
>dseal@armltd.co.uk (David Seal) writes:
>>However, to try to be reasonably objective: as you say, Hero can be easily
>>modified - probably more easily than GURPS. 
>
>While I basically agree with the bulk of your post, I disagree with this
>paragraph.  I have not been able to create a good improvisational magic
>system in Hero, but I have done so in GURPS.  In this instance, which is
>ultimate flexibility, GURPS is superior to Hero.  Someone sent me e-mail
>once claiming he could do an improv magic system in Hero, but when I
>asked for more details, he never replied.

	That was me. I had said that I could do an improvisational magic 
system in Hero, not that I already had one with details ready to provide 
you with. 

	At it's simplest level, an improv magic system in Hero would be 
bought as a Variable Point Pool, only with a number of control skills 
instead of just one. Each form and technique (in the Ars Magica terminology) 
is a separate skill. They are bought like Sciences or Knowledge skills. In 
order to cast a spell, the mage must take a half-phase, then make a successful 
roll on the appropriate form and technique (-1 per 5 active points in the 
effect he wants). 
Ex. a mage with Healing at 17- and Man at 14- wants to heal someone who is 
gravely wounded. The GM has ruled that in this game, Aid costs 10 pts per 
die. So the mage decides to try 3d6 of Body Aid. This is 30 active points, 
and so he must roll and 11-, and then an 8-, in order to formulate the spell.
	The control cost of the pool will have several limitations to 
represent what the mage must do to cast the spell once he has formulated 
in it his mind: Concentration, Gestures, and Incantation spring to mind as 
possibilities. Costs Endurance will ensure that no persistant powers are 
possible (although the GM can equally just rule that no persistant powers 
can be taken). 
	
	This is following fairly strictly by the rules, but it has the 
difficulty that the caster must work out the effects he wants in Hero 
mechanics, which can slow things down a bit. It does seem easier to do 
things the way that they are in Ars Magica and GURPS - which is just to 
assign a difficulty to the effect by ear, without relying on formulas or 
detailed balance. 
	However, there is no reason why this cannot also be done in Hero. 
Just make the skills a bit more expensive - the standard 3pt, +1 for 2. 
Then define a startup costs of, say, 30pts for being a mage. Now just do 
what Ars Magica does - you tell the GM the effect you want, then he tells 
you the penalty to your rolls to achieve that effect. 

	The only difference between Hero and GURPS is that in Hero, you 
have the option of doing this the first way. The fact that GURPS does not 
have a system to put a point value to these effects does not make it more 
flexible as a rule system. Something that people often lose sight of is 
that the Powers-Advantages-Limitations system is not that integral to Hero. 
In a non-Supers campaign, you may decide never to use it, and you will be 
in the same position as if you had basic GURPS without psionics or magic. 

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
John Kim                    | "All the world will be your enemy, Prince with
jhk6@cunixb.cc.columbia.edu | a Thousand Enemies. And when they catch you, 
Columbia University         | they will kill you."         - Watership Down
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