HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: Gerald_Del_Campo@sorinc.UUCP (Gerald Del Campo)
Newsgroups: alt.magick
Subject: herbal freedom
Distribution: world
Date: 11 Aug 92 23:37:00 PDT
Organization: Shades of Reality BBS - Medford, Oregon

Greetings, Peace, Health, and Prosperity.
 
Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the Law.
 
There is a move in congress backed by the AMA, and several conservative
parties sympathetic to the "War on Drugs" to prohibit the use of certain
readily available herbs used in herbal medicine.  The following letter can
be
captured and printed simply by hitting the "print screen" button on your
computer.  It is hoped that some of you will use your voting power and a 29
cent stamp to conserve your right to heal your bdy naturally.
 
Please feel free to copy this for folks without computers, and please post
this message on other echos as well; especially the Magick Plants echo.
 
Love is the law, love under will.
Gerald
 
                                              ___________________________
                                                           NAME
                                               ___________________________
                                                          ADDRESS
                                              ___________________________
                                                   CITY, STATE, AND ZIP
 
The Honorable _____________________
United States Senator
Washington, DC.  20510
 
RE:  "Health Freedom Act of 992", S. 2835.
 
Dear Senator ______________________
 
Senator Hatch, R-Utah, has introduced a new bill, "Health Freedom Act of
1992", S. 2835.
 
As a health conscious consumer, I ask you to co-sponsor this bill and work
vigorously for its passage  I want the bill enacted because it will bring
about less restrictive regulations that will allow me grater access to
nutritional supplements and information about the benefits they provide.
 
The new law will establish:
 
1. A broader definition o dietary supplement, to include herbs and other
supplements.
 
2. That dietary supplements are NOT drugs.
 
3. That dietary supplements are NOT food additives.
 
4. That truthful health information about dietary supplements is permitted.
 
5. Tha the FDA has no prior restraint authority on truthful labeling or
advertising.
 
Sincerely,
 
 
_______________________________                              ______________
SIGNATURE                                                         DATE
 
**end***
 


-- Via DLG Pro v0.992
From: jesse@uts.amdahl.com (Jesse Mundis)
Newsgroups: alt.magick
Subject: anyone recognise this symbol?
Date: 21 Aug 92 23:50:06 GMT
Organization: Amdahl Corporation, Sunnyvale CA


ASCII graphics aren't the best medium for this, but.. does anyone out there
recognise this symbol from any occult sources?



It looks like the 2 outside lines of an 'A' with a kind of cursive tail
coming off the point, looping back across the 2 diagonals, and ending in a
curve higher than the starting point.  There is a small '*' in the upper
left.
                                                         
                                                         
                                                         
            \  *  ____                                   
             \   /\   )                                  
              \ /  \ /                                   
               X    X                                    
              / \__/ \                                   
             /        \                                  
            /          \                                 
           /            \                                

Book sources would be appreciated.  Please email, as I sometimes miss messages
in this group.

Thanks.

-- 
    Jesse Mundis     |      Amdahl Corporation       | Freedom is just chaos
jesse@uts.amdahl.com | 1250 East Arques Ave  M/S 316 | with better lighting.
   (408) 746-4796    |   Sunnyvale,  CA 94088-3470   |    -Alan Dean Foster 

#include <Disclaimer.standard>

-- 
    Jesse Mundis     |      Amdahl Corporation       | Freedom is just chaos
jesse@uts.amdahl.com | 1250 East Arques Ave  M/S 316 | with better lighting.
   (408) 746-4796    |   Sunnyvale,  CA 94088-3470   |    -Alan Dean Foster 

#include <Disclaimer.standard>
Newsgroups: alt.magick
Newsgroups: alt.magick
From: shaman@cix.compulink.co.uk (Leo Smith)
Subject: Re: IS THIS REAL?
Reply-To: shaman@cix.compulink.co.uk
Date: Sun, 16 Aug 1992 11:52:49 +0000

harish.reddy@factory.com (Harish Reddy) writes...

>Is this for real?

[...]

FWIW I believe that in addition to the five senses, all life has the
ability to interact with all other life directly: Maybe nervous
systems 'speak' to one another. mammalian life has developed
certain aspects of this into what we now see as chemical
(taste/smell) electromagnetic (sight) and pressure (feel/hear). We
spend most of our lives dominated by those senses: but the other ones
still work. We still talk of 'feelings' of 'intuition' 'mothers
instinct' and get reportings of inexplicable communications between
life forms that can't be readily explained by the five senses.


Signals come through from this region, and are vaguely interpreted as
longings, as mild unease or headaches, or in fact almost anything!

Most occult and mystical systems consist in trying to divert the
consciousness away from the five senses, in the hope that the
participant will latch on to the reality of what is left.

When he/she does so - the experience is perhaps of 'dreaming' about
real events elsewhere, or maybe the person 'sees' auras, or can
'feel' illness and be a healer, or even dowse for water.

Some people develop the ability to impose their wills on others - to
put compulsive thoughts or feelings into their consciousnesses.
Crowley was one of these: Also Gurdjieff.

So yes: There is something there - the old sense of Life that we once
had, and can still recapture. And yes, I think the struggle is worth
the effort.

What are Gods and Goddesses? Well GOD (you know the Big G) is the
name of the totality of the HUMAN life field......Gods and Goddesses
are like little vortices in it - you can make these with lots of
emotion and then they kinda stick around. There is a lot of astral
debris out there from religions and stuff anyway - best leave it
alone as its easy to get sucked in.

Real Shamans (:-)  prefer animal gods, as they tend to be a little
less treacherous and demanding than the Jewish/Christian/Magickal lot
:-) I mean who needs the power of Astaroth to smite the enemy, when a
well placed wasp sting can cause a lethal car smash?

:-):-)

Seriously though: Yes, I think its all there to be unravelled, and
its worth having a crack at it. But don't ever take my word for it:
Go 'see' for yourself.

Leo
From: amanda@INTERCON.COM (Amanda Walker)
Newsgroups: alt.magick
Subject: Re: Neurolinguistic Programming (NLP)
Date: 21 Aug 92 05:07:21 GMT

oispeggy@ubvmsd.cc.buffalo.edu (Peggy Brown) writes:
> Don't forget, people count as information resources too.

Indeed, although some are higher bandwidth than others :).

> If someone with experience in a particular field is willing to 
> share their experience, I have open ears.  (That does not mean I 
> believe they have the definitive outlook on whatever.)
> 
> Whether or not I feel the urge to do a thorough literature search 
> and read background materials is unlikely, unless I become 
> exceptionally interested.

Hmm.  I generally like to amass initial background knowledge through reading, 
since I can read faster than most people can talk, and it makes it faster to 
skip over stuff that's already familiar.  When I say that I read quickly, I'm 
talking an average paperback in about 3-4 hours, with almost complete 
retention.  I'd much rather read up on something than have someone tell me 
the same information.

Once I have this initial exposure, I like talking to people about the 
ramifications of it and avenues for further study, though.  I also like being 
able to see live demonstrations of things I've read descriptions of, since no 
description ever captures all of the aspects of an experience.


Peace,

Amanda
From: oispeggy@ubvmsd.cc.buffalo.edu (Peggy Brown)
Newsgroups: alt.magick
Subject: Re: Magical Power(book)
Date: 17 Aug 92 02:07:00 GMT
Organization: University at Buffalo
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41

In article <1992Aug16.163729.27418@uwm.edu>, hiho@csd4.csd.uwm.edu writes...
>From article <BszDtD.68M@acsu.buffalo.edu>, by oispeggy@ubvmsd.cc.buffalo.edu (Peggy Brown):
>> In article <83950124@otter.hpl.hp.com>, cal@otter.hpl.hp.com (Colin Low) writes...
<>>Peggy Brown writes:
<>> 
<>>>If you say its a large can of worms then why do you have such a 
<>>>firm opinion about whether or not unknown causal events are 
   ^^^^
<>>>involved in "everyday" magic(k)?

<Enough already.  "Back it up"??  Let me try to boil this down: Peggy,
<you're asking for a rational basis for something that's
<extra-rational.  Doesn't that strike you as a bit... well, useless?
<Or are you asking another question entirely?

I did not ask a question; I presented a different point of view, 
and I have as much right to my opinion as anyone else.

A more scientific approach to magick is not unheard of.  I am not so 
willing as some to chuck the rational out the window the minute I hear 
about someone's magickal powers, and (on this occasion anyway) I was 
not so discrete as others who just keep silent.

<I think you just like the friction.  That's probably a good enough, 
<ahem, reason.  ;-)

I think you just like jumping to conclusions.  Probably spending 
too much time with that goat. :)

The most interesting discussions often have friction.  
Discussions about beliefs usually have friction.  Maybe we should 
no longer discuss topics that cause friction?  

I don't actually *like* friction, I simply don't value concurrence 
as highly as others do, where magick is concerned anyway.  This 
is because the highest accomplishment (IMO) of group-think is 
mutual political blow-jobs, which may be just what's needed for 
work or social situations, but restrains me where magick is 
concerned.

On the other hand, this is getting to be too much work, so it may 
be awhile before I bring up something controversial again - but 
I'll still be thinking it. :)

hiho
-- 
mark ce peterson   | uw-washington county  | hiho@csd4.csd.uwm.edu 
dept of philosophy | west bend, wi.  53095 | (414) 335-5200        

     The shorter the tether, the sooner the goat starves.

- Peggy -
From: joshua@cpac.washington.edu (Joshua Geller)
Newsgroups: alt.magick
Subject: Re: Neuro-Linguistic Programming (NLP)
Date: 19 Aug 92 04:58:13 GMT
	<a_!n##+.friday@netcom.com>
Organization: Institute for the Study of Ancient Science


In article <a_!n##+.friday@netcom.com> friday@netcom.com (Carol Anne Ogdin) 
writes:

>   No, Amanda, it isn't my responsibility to justify NLP, or to "explain
>   what's new."  I offered you a challenge, from the perspective of 
>   experience, qualifications and knowledge.  Hurling words without substance 
>   cuts no ice with me.

>   I'd be happy to reiterate my challenge:  If you'll quote something you
>   believe to be inappropriate, I can tell you whether, in my experience it
>   is part of NLP.

ah challenges! I have a question which I hope you will answer:

    how much moola did you spend to become a master practitioner and
    trainer (moola == lucre, coin, the long green etc)?

josh
From: Gerald_Del_Campo@sorinc.UUCP (Gerald Del Campo)
Newsgroups: alt.magick
Subject: Re: Another Crowley question
Distribution: world
Date: 11 Aug 92 22:57:50 PDT
Organization: Shades of Reality BBS - Medford, Oregon

In a message dated Tue 11 Aug 92  5:10, mcgrath@cs.uiuc.edu (Robert
McGrath) wrote:

 RM> Its difficult to say which is more twisted--instructing naive people
to
 RM> do human sacrifice, or doing it yourself.  That's Crowley all over--as
 RM> twisted as twisted gets!

|> The desire to cast stones without justification or proof is even more
|> twisted.

 RM> Are you suggesting that Al. "the wickedest man in the world" Crowley
 RM> was not twisted?

I am suggesting that If a person is to make criticism like this it should
be based on some form of factual data.  Otherwise, you have entered the
realm of the fundamentalist.  Besides; define "twisted".  

 RM> I think Wilson recounts that Crowley published a book which instructed
 RM> the reader that sacrificing a male child was necessary for the spells
 RM> to be fully effective.  

|> The Male Child Sacrifice is the sperm.  Come on guys, Crowley said he
|> performed this operation every other day for a year:  don't you find
this a
|> little bit funny?

 RM> Funny as in "ha-ha" or funny as in "peculiar"?

OK.  Perculiar.  The point being that one should think things out before
doing anything some one tells you to.

I no longer think a person needs to be "Jesus-like" , (i.e. without fault,
etc.) to be considered a Holy Man, or to validate their Work.

Love is the Law.
Gerald

-- Via DLG Pro v0.992
From: owen@autodesk.com (D. Owen Rowley)
Newsgroups: alt.magick
Subject: gif of Aleister Crowley
Date: 12 Aug 92 18:37:58 GMT


I scanned the picture on page 32 of *the Aleister Crowley scrapbook*,
This picture titled "The Beast at Large: Crowley in the Satanic, bald
headed pose beloved of the Fleet Street Hacks. Mad, Bad, and Dangerous to
know."

It is also one of my favorites , and I wanted it for my openlook background.

I share it with the rest of you, I hope you enjoy it as much as I do.

The GIF format has been posted in six parts on alt.binaries.pictures.misc.
(The Master Therion, parts 1 through 6)



LUX ./. owen
--
D. Owen Rowley {uunet,fernwood,sun}!autodesk!owen

  " It will be a cold March 17th that I celebrate the imposition of
	Romes rule, on Pagan Ireland. Erin go ppphhhhhttttttt! "
From: oispeggy@ubvmsd.cc.buffalo.edu (Peggy Brown)
Newsgroups: alt.magick
Subject: Re: Neurolinguistic Programming (NLP)
Date: 20 Aug 92 23:47:00 GMT
Organization: University at Buffalo
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41

In article <199208202135.AA15944@intercon.com>, amanda@INTERCON.COM (Amanda Walker) writes...
>In article <1992Aug19.223014.3029@samba.oit.unc.edu>, 
>eddie@hermes.oit.unc.edu (Edward M. Averett) writes:
> 
>This annoys me, but I am biased by being very good at self-education, and in 
>particular locating and absorbing information (folks at my last job dubbed me 
>"the information vampire" :)).

Don't forget, people count as information resources too.

If someone with experience in a particular field is willing to 
share their experience, I have open ears.  (That does not mean I 
believe they have the definitive outlook on whatever.)

Whether or not I feel the urge to do a thorough literature search 
and read background materials is unlikely, unless I become 
exceptionally interested.

- Peggy -
Newsgroups: alt.magick
From: stanley@verga.enet.dec.com 
Subject: Re: Duel?
Organization: Digital Equipment Corporation
Date: Wed, 19 Aug 1992 14:01:57 GMT


In article <16rmrlINNc3u@early-bird.think.com>, cward@Think.COM (Christopher) writes...
>In article <1992Aug18.152815.12451@engage.pko.dec.com>, stanley@verga.enet.dec.com writes:
>-Christopher                      

Let the games begin. :-)  

We have all of reality to work within, Christopher...what will be the test?

Ground rules are that (1) no one gets hurt, and (2) it has to be something 
significant enough that it turns up on the news so we'll both recognize it.  

What is your speciality... what do you choose to do?
From: Tagi@cup.portal.com (Tagi Mordred Nagashiva)
Newsgroups: alt.magick
Subject: Re: I Ching and Magick Squares
Date: Fri, 21 Aug 92 16:08:24 PDT
Organization: The Portal System (TM)
  <64218@cup.portal.com> <64236@cup.portal.com> <64302@cup.portal.com>

9208.21 e.v.

Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the Law.
The word of Sin is Restriction.


Here's one more piece of information for you:
-------------------------------------------------------

An exercise in Ken Rosen's Elementary Numer Theory says:
To make an n x n magic square, choose integers c,d,e,and f relatively
prime to n.  Then put the integer k from the set 0,1,...,n^2-1 into  
the ith row and jth column, where
i \equiv a+ck+e[k/n] (mod n)
j \equiv b+dk+f[k/n] (mod n).

\equiv means congruent to
[x] is the greatest integer function

So different choices of c, d, e, and f should give different magic  
squares.....

A follow-up problem states that if in addition you have 

c+d, c-d, e+f, and e-f also relatively prime to n, then the sum along  
any diagonal (with its "complement") will also be the same.


----------------------------------------------------------------

Invoke me under my stars.   Love is the law, love under will.

I am I!

Frater (I) Nigris (666)
Newsgroups: alt.magick
From: ba@mrcnext.cso.uiuc.edu (B.A. Davis-Howe)
Subject: Re: Benign magic spells (empathy?)
Organization: University of Illinois at Urbana
Date: Thu, 20 Aug 1992 13:23:58 GMT

tanj@catnip.berkeley.ca.us (Ren and Stimpy's Love Child) writes:

>Hi there.  I was wondering if anyone could recommend a good spell book which
>does not so much deal with the tired chestnuts of love and money but deals
>with some nifty benign social engineering... to wit...

>I am looking for an empathy spell that, when cast, causes the person cast
>upon (person A) to be the recipient of feelings and impressions of a person B 
>whose "type" person A looks on very negatively.  The goal here is tolerance
>making.  I intend to use this on myself and other people toward that goal.
>I will experiment first on myself to make sure the spell is benign.

>No flames, pleez... I know a lot of you out there think all this stuff is a
>lot of hooey.  But then, what are you doing reading this newsgroup?  :-)

Well, my experience is that external actions work by triggering internal
states--so, spells are sort of Macros for the mind :-).  Spells are useful, but
only after having internalised their patterns of reaction.  I would suggest that
you focus on being *very* tolerant--very *consciously* tolerant--in this 
situation, paying very close attention to what it feels like to feel tolerant
and what it feels like to feel intolerant.  Choose to radiate tolerance around
the persons you want to have this effect on.  Continue to choose it every few
minutes when you are in their presences.  When you know what it feels like,
create a symbol, word, image, whatever strikes your fancy that represents the
state of tolerance.  Create your own spell using this symbol, etc.  Then, when
you are with these people, you can activate the projection of tolerance using
the Macro--the spell-trigger.  

Is this clear to people? Sound useful?

              Merry meet, merry part, merry meet again,
                               Br'anArthur

Queer, Peculiar, and Wyrd! :-)
From: mcgrath@cs.uiuc.edu (Robert McGrath)
Subject: RE: Brainwashing
Reply-To: mcgrath@cs.uiuc.edu
Organization: University of Illinois, Dept of Computer Science
Date: Thu, 13 Aug 1992 14:39:06 GMT


(Joshua Geller) posted a long (and thoroughly flawed) article by:
|> ___
|>    THE BATTLE FOR YOUR MIND
|>    by Dick Sutphen 
|> 
|>    Persuasion and Brainwashing Techniques Being Used on the Public Today

This article contained the following statement:

|>    A 1984 article in the technical newsletter, "Brain-Mind Bulletin," states
|>that as much as 99 percent of our cognitive activity may be "non-conscious,"
|>according to the director of the Laboratory for Cognitive Psychophysiology at
|>the University of Illinois. The lengthy report ends with the statement, "these
|>findings support the use of subliminal approaches such as taped suggestions
|>for weight loss and the therapeutic use of hypnosis and Neuro-Linguistic
|>Programming."

This paragraph is highly misleading and I simply MUST defend the honor of
the University of Illinois.

First of all, calling the Brain/Mind Bulletin a "technical newsletter" is
certainly pushing the meaning of that term.  I note also that the "lengthy
report" is a 20 paragraph summary of an article in the NY Times.

Anyway, the real problem is this:  Prof. Emannual Donchin (the dir.
of the LCP at the UIUC) would agree with the comment about 99% of
cognitive activity being "non-conscious", and may even have said
something like that.  This is not exactly hot news (after all,
"walking" and "breathing" are "non-conscious" activities with mental
components).  There are studies from many labs showing interesting 
"non-conscious" mental activity.

However, he did not say that the work at UI, or anywhere else, "supports
the use of subliminal approaches such as taped suggestoins."  That conclusion
was an inference drawn by either the original writer in the NYT or by
the B/MB.  There is, in fact, no such evidence, from studies at Illinois
or anywhere else.

My comments are confirmed by Manny Donchin in personal communication.
His comments were, shall we say, POINTED, about the views apparently
falsely attributed to him.

(BTW, therer are lots and lots of other factual errors, misinterpretations,
and wildly misleading claims in the article.)

-- 
  Robert E. ("Be True To Your School") McGrath
  University of Illinois
  Urbana Illinois
  mcgrath@cs.uiuc.edu
Newsgroups: alt.magick
From: rjb@milton.u.washington.edu (LeGrand Cinq-Mars)
Subject: Re: Definition of magick (was re: doing stuff)
Organization: University of Washington, Seattle
Date: Wed, 12 Aug 1992 15:52:02 GMT

Well, the term "acausal connection" was used as part of an effort to
show that there were problems with the usual way of talking about 
whether "magic" does anything that can't be accounted for by
processes acceptable to a social psychologist or the Amazing Randi.

If "magic" is used to describe any effects one can't at the moment
give a satisfactory account for, without making any claim that
would surprise a social psychologist or TAR, then of course the
whole discussion reaches a pleasant and effortless end.

If I don't understand how it works, it's magic.  If I do, it's not.

This move has the additional pleasant advantage of collapsing the
difference between what the alt group names distinguish as "magic"
and "magick".  And it makes the whole earlier discussion far more
difficult to carry on -- which is perhaps just as well!

--LeGrand
From: amanda@INTERCON.COM (Amanda Walker)
Newsgroups: alt.magick
Subject: Re: Neurolinguistic Programming (NLP)
Date: 20 Aug 92 22:33:00 GMT

In article <1992Aug19.223014.3029@samba.oit.unc.edu>, 
eddie@hermes.oit.unc.edu (Edward M. Averett) writes:
> The point is, that if there is stuff out there that is a nice package,
> that people can learn something they didn't know before that appears
> to be useful to them (regardless of the source); then if someone else
> can package it and make a buck, then good for them. 

This is not an unreasonable point, and I'd like to clarify my earlier remark 
about "The Stupidity Tax."  This is a phrase that I and some of my friends 
use regarding this sort of packaging; it's not a condemnation, exactly--it
means, basically, "paying for something you could do just as well for 
yourself."  This doesn't mean that the "something" in question is not 
valuable in its own right--it simply means that someone is taking advantage 
of the fact that most people don't know how to (or even that they can) learn 
it on their own.  Personally, I feel that a lot of "self-help," "new age," 
and even commercial "pagan" material falls into this category.

And so, as I see it, the artful use of language and nonverbal communication 
that (to my mind) should be part of any literate person's education (formal 
or otherwise) gets packaged up as "NLP;" Pathworking and mental rehearsal get 
packaged up as "SyberVision;" Introductory contemplative techniques get 
packaged up as "TM;" and so on.  In the process of this packaging, a lot of 
hype gets added into the mix.

This annoys me, but I am biased by being very good at self-education, and in 
particular locating and absorbing information (folks at my last job dubbed me 
"the information vampire" :)).


Peace,

Amanda Walker