HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: georgen@gpu.utcs.utoronto.ca (G. Ng)
Subject: vitamin/nutrition product and pyramid marketing scheme
Followup-To: sci.med.nutrition
Organization: University of Toronto Computing Services
Date: Tue, 15 Sep 1992 04:43:27 GMT

An old acquaintance of mine has tried to persuade me to attend some sort
of meeting on some new vitamins (and perhaps additional nutritional products)
made by some firm in Provo, Utah.  Now, from what I gathered from this
friend, the company manufacturing these vitamins and other products (among
them, cosmetics also) are using a pyramid type of marketing scheme instead of
going through regular retail channels in Canada.  I'm not sure as to how
they're marketing these products in the states.

My knowledge of vitamins and pyramid marketing is almost minimal at best, so
some questions come to mind:

- is pyramid marketing legal in Canada?  From what I understand, it isn't.
My friend mentioned once that somehow it's legal...hmm.  Furthermore, if the
product has been approved by two doctors and a few people who've tried it
with supposed success, why not market it through retail/department stores
if they feel that it's that good?

- is there some regulatory body controlling the sale/usage of vitamins?
I assume there isn't.  Either the FDA in the states or Min. of Health/Welfare
in Canada?  Does anyone do actual testing of the vitamins and as to
substituents that they contain?

-is there really anything special about any one type of brand-name vitamin
that sets it/them apart from any other than the type of vitamin(s) it
contains?

-are vitamins necessarily the proper substitutes for proper eating/sleep for
people who work in a 'stressed/polluted/caffeine/alcohol/aspirin'
environment?

Unfortunately, I haven't got any other information about this product
or the company itself, except that they also have some skin care product(s)
called "Nu-skin" or something like that.

Any leads to current books/papers/articles on vitamin research (if I may
call it that), info. on the company, other info, and comments appreciated,
preferably through email.

thanks
gn
Newsgroups: sci.med
From: oispeggy@ubvmsd.cc.buffalo.edu (Peggy Brown)
Newsgroups: sci.med
Subject: Re: Reading for prospective dad-to-be
Date: 8 Sep 92 18:28:00 GMT
Organization: University at Buffalo
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41

In article <1992Sep8.165309.5340@newshost.lanl.gov>, gwr@hedonist-1.lanl.gov (Graham W. Redgrave) writes...
>In article <1992Sep6.155442.11062@elroy.jpl.nasa.gov>, fod@elroy.jpl.nasa.gov (Frank O'Donnell) writes:

>|> Also, are there any Usenet groups or mailing lists that are
>|> more specifically targeted at these subjects?
> 
>I'm unaware of any, but I'd be interested, too.
> 

The group, misc.kids, is about childbirth and parenting.

I think there is a separate group about parenting teens.

- Peggy -
Organization: Carnegie Mellon, Pittsburgh, PA
Newsgroups: sci.med,sci.skeptic
Date: Mon, 14 Sep 1992 17:20:04 -0400 
From: Sean McLinden <sean+@andrew.cmu.edu>
Subject: Re: Chiropractic and Flame Bait (long)
	<BuG8qy.GLr@belay>

>As for the spine, yes there is a *limited* amount of
>normal motion in between the vertebrae, however there is also misalignments
>as in *any other joint*.  A misalignment of a joint shouldn't be ignored
>or should we just tell Mr. Smith that the dislocated shoulder can stay that 
>way, it really isn't impeding function?  Do you think that with the vertebral 
>facets misaligned and possibly the disk pinched that the function and 
>ROM of the vertebral joint is normal!!??  Do you think it will suffice?
>Will it return itself to position?  How about a dislocated shoulder?
>(It's mostly cartilage, ligaments and tendon.. not an actual bone on bone
> joint... if any, it should be able to realign spontaneously)

Please! The spine is *not* like "any other joint". Get an anatomy text and
read about it. Disk disease, such as you mention, is a problem with the
disk which may be primary or secondary to posterior longitudinal
ligament degeneration but it is not due to misalignment of the
verterbrae and cannot
and should not be treated by mechanical "manipulation". Furthermore, anatomic
and flouroscopic studies have consistently failed to demonstrate the
range of motion of the normal spine to which you refer.

Note that I am *not* saying that some patients don't feel better after
chiropractic manipulation. But the "theory" that you posted simply doesn't
fit the facts. And in many cases, belief in it may actually harm the patient.
From: smp001@muvms3.bitnet
Newsgroups: sci.med
Subject: Thymosin
Date: 4 Sep 92 09:27:56 GMT
Organization: Marshall University

I would like information on the clinical use of Thymosin.

Thank you very much.

Elsa I. Mangiarua, Ph.D.
Assistant Professor
Marshall University School of Medicine
Huntington, WV
INTERNET: SMP001@MARSHALL.WVNET.EDU
From: nau@frabjous.cs.umd.edu (Dana Nau)
Newsgroups: sci.med
Subject: headaches (was Re: Xanax)
Date: 10 Sep 92 01:41:28 GMT
Organization: U of Maryland, Dept. of Computer Science, Coll. Pk., MD 20742
In-reply-to: strnlght@netcom.com's message of 9 Sep 92 17:27:26 GMT

In article <xvsnzx-.strnlght@netcom.com> strnlght@netcom.com (David Sternlight) writes:

   From: strnlght@netcom.com (David Sternlight)
   Gordon Banks mentions the NLP headache cure. I've seen it demonstrated
   many times, and it seems to work then and there. ...

   [description of the process omitted]

   Werner Erhard used to use something similar many years ago when he was
   doing est training seminars. His version was called "The Famous est
   Headache Cure".

Personally, I don't find that very convincing.  At one time or another
when I've had headaches, various people have put me through the kind
of "cure" you described---and it never worked for me.
--
	Dana S. Nau
	Computer Science Dept.		Internet:  nau@cs.umd.edu
	University of Maryland		UUCP:  uunet!mimsy!nau
	College Park, MD 20742		Telephone:  (301) 405-2684
Newsgroups: sci.med,sci.research,soc.rights.human,soc.culture.jewish,misc.legal
From: bhjelle@carina.unm.edu ()
Subject: Re: M.D. Gun Advocates
Date: Fri, 11 Sep 92 17:53:45 GMT
Organization: University of New Mexico, Albuquerque

In article <1992Sep11.155129.5361@convex.com> langston@convex.COM (Kevin Langston) writes:
>
>
>We are familiar with:

>        * the increasing publication of "politically correct" gun
>        research that is methodologically flawed and, so reaches suspect
>        interpretations

i.e., disagrees with your preconceived conclusions.

>        * the editorial policies of many medical journals that have
>        stifled the confounding data and opinions that dissent from the
>        "politically correct" orthodoxy on gun prohibition, and

Maybe they are just concerned about the premature death of 20-25,000
Americans/year.

>        * the increasing use of taxpayers money to fund politically
>        motivated "research," especially by the Centers for Disease
>        Control (CDC).

Yes, let's stifle research that might reach a conclusion we don't
like.

>It is time we organized to:
>        * expose the flaws in methodology and [blah blah blah]

You guys are organized enough. It is time for those with opposing
viewpoints to organize.
> 
>efforts.  I would expect to use computers, fax machines, the mail, and
>personal testimony to make our case heard in Congress and state
>legislatures, not just in the editorial office of the self-appointed
>illuminati.
> 
I think the NRA is already doing this quite competently.

>I hope to hear from you regarding your interests and suggestions.
> 
Sure. Keep it out of sci.med.

Brian
From: backon@vms.huji.ac.il
Newsgroups: sci.med
Subject: Re: Cold hands and feet
Date: 8 Sep 92 07:10:58 GMT
Distribution: world
Organization: The Hebrew University of Jerusalem

In article <10617@sun13.scri.fsu.edu>, liny@sun16.scri.fsu.edu (Nemo) writes:
> My hands and feet turn icy cold when I'm in a cool environment.  My feet
> turn cold even in an air-conditioned room.  The hands are better, probably
> because I use them on a keyboard all the time, but they also turn cold
> when the temperature drops to, say, 60 deg F.  My father also has the same
> problem.  I guess it's caused by inadequate blood flow (do blood vessels
> contract when cold?).  Exercise or immersion in hot water can provide
> temporary relief.  Is there a better way to deal with this problem?
>
> Thanks for any advice!  I'm hoping to get this thing resolved before
> another winter is here.
>
>

Without knowing your age, sex, or the exact color change, it's hard to make
a diagnosis of arteriospastic disorder. What you have may be: Raynaud's
phenomenon, livedo reticularis, or acrocyanosis. There could be many causes
(vascular trauma, collagen disorder, cryoprecipitins, thoracic outlet syndrome,
pulmonary hypertension, periarteritis nodosa) so I would *highly* recommend you
see an internist.

Assuming your Raynaud's phenomenon is idiopathic, then I usually recommend a
combined thromboxane synthetase inhibitor and prostacyclin agonist: adding one
teaspoon of the spice ginger to your daily diet. Certain forms of biofeedback
have also been found to be helpful.

Good luck !

Josh

Dr. Josh Backon
backon@VMS.HUJI.AC.IL
Newsgroups: sci.med
Subject: Safety Needles & Iv Bags
From: Kurt.Ullman@p0.f290.n231.z1.fidonet.org (Kurt Ullman)
Date: 2 Sep 92 05:00:16 GMT
Organization: FidoNet node 1:231/290.0 - The RoadHouse BBS (, Indianapolis IN

PP>From: pete@egh-qc.uucp (Pete Phillips)
PP>bigoldberg@igc.apc.org (Billi Goldberg) writes in

PP>>"Hospital Trying New Safe Needles" United Press International (08/19/92)

PP>If anyone has :

PP>- further information on the type/brand of needles and IV bags being used
PP>- a contact & address for the hospitals carrying out the study

        You maybe talking about the Interlink system, it is being
marketed by Baxter (or Baxter-Travenol, or whoever the parent is). After
access is made, the Interlink (R) system uses a blunt cannula instead of
a sharp needle for infusion of fluids/nutrition, medication,
blood draws, etc. All of these can be drawn through the same port.
        I originally ran across this system doing some work for
Caremark, Baxter's home infusion company. Further information may be
available from them or from an area Baxter representative.
        FYI: According to Baxter, an estimated six billion needles are
used by healthcare workers annually in the U.S. and about 1 million
needlestick injuries.

 

--  
Internet: Kurt.Ullman@p0.f290.n231.z1.fidonet.org
From: larrabee@cse.ucsc.edu (Tracy Larrabee)
Newsgroups: sci.med
Subject: Information on drug needed: Atwon
Date: 9 Sep 92 03:11:06 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: University of California, Santa Cruz (CE/CIS Boards)
NNTP-Posting-Host: arapaho.ucsc.edu


I would very much like to know what I can about the drug Atwon.  The 
implication is that it is either some sort of tranquilizer or a blood
pressure medicine.  My mother (who is a rotten question asker when it
comes to doctors) and I thank you for any information.

--
Tracy Larrabee		larrabee@cse.ucsc.edu
From: vxv4@po.CWRU.Edu (Virgilio Velasco)
Newsgroups: sci.med
Subject: Dr. Martin Katahn's carbohydrate theory
Date: 11 Sep 1992 20:59:49 GMT
Organization: Case Western Reserve University, Cleveland, OH (USA)
Reply-To: vxv4@po.CWRU.Edu (Virgilio Velasco)
NNTP-Posting-Host: slc5.ins.cwru.edu



	I've already posted this inquiry regarding Dr. Martin Katahn's 
theory on sci.med.nutrition, but I just wanted to get more info. 

	Katahn, who wrote "The T-Factor Diet", claim that unless you
consume some incredibly massive excess of carbohydrates, virtually none
of them will be converted to fat.  This is supposedly because the
carb-to-fat conversion process is inefficient, and because the human
body will generally raise its metabolism enough to burn away almost all
the carbohydrates.  Katahn also cites an impressive number of studies to
support his claim.

	Do any of you medical types out there have evidence to support
or contradict Dr. Katahn's claim?  I'd really appreciate an e-mail
response.

	Thanks for letting me pick your brains.  To paraphrase DeForest
Kelley, I'm a roboticist, not a doctor!
 
-- 
Virgilio "Dean" Velasco Jr., grad student & roboticist-in-training, CWRU

"If God does not judge the United States, then He owes |    My boss is a 
 an apology to Sodom and Gomorrah."   - Billy Graham   |  Jewish carpenter.
From: geb@dsl.pitt.edu (gordon e. banks)
Newsgroups: sci.med
Subject: Re: Baclofen
Date: 11 Sep 92 19:21:21 GMT
Organization: Decision Systems Laboratory, Univ. of Pittsburgh, PA.

In article <1992Sep10.152156.29879@spdcc.com> dyer@spdcc.com (Steve Dyer) writes:

>No, it's saying that baclofen _acts_ like a natural chemical in your
>brain or spinal cord (GABA), and by adding to the inhibition already
>effected by GABA, it damps the spinal reflexes which contribute to
>spasticity.
>
In the case of the spastic patient, the inhibitory neurons (GABA
ones) are at higher levels and cut off from the lower spinal neurons
causing hightened (spastic) reflexes.  The Baclofen provides
the inhibitory input that should be there but isn't.  Unfortunately,
baclofen can't provide modulation of the inhibition, but patients
are usually better off with less spasticity.  If they get too much
baclofen, they can become too weak (inhibited).
-- 
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Gordon Banks  N3JXP      | "Skepticism is the chastity of the intellect, and
geb@cadre.dsl.pitt.edu   |  it is shameful to surrender it too soon." 
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Newsgroups: sci.med
From: auwen@convex.com (John David Auwen)
Subject: Re: Weight loss => arthritis?
Organization: CONVEX Computer Corporation, Richardson, Tx., USA
Date: Sat, 12 Sep 1992 22:10:11 GMT
X-Disclaimer: This message was written by a user at CONVEX Computer
              Corp. The opinions expressed are those of the user and
              not necessarily those of CONVEX.

My 69-year-old mother went to a weight loss center 3 years ago and
lost 40 pounds (she went from 175 to 135).  The diet consisted of
800 calories/day which I consider a fairly radical diet.

Within a couple of months after completing the diet, she started
feeling pain and was diagnosed as having rheumatoid arthritis.  
The arthritis is now under control thanks to the good treatment
she's received at an arthritis clinic in Ardmore, Okla.

I've always been suspicious that the radical diet triggered the
onset of her arthritis.  But I guess it could be coincidence.

Since rheumatoid arthritis is an "auto-immune" disease, why do
some people go along fine and then suddenly come down with it?  
Is it possible that certain things trigger the immune response?

Dave Auwen
auwen@convex.com
Newsgroups: sci.med
From: john@anasazi.com (John R. Moore)
Subject: Re: Re: What are the symptoms of Epstein-Barr virus?
Reply-To: john@anasazi.com
Organization: Anasazi Inc, Phoenix AZ USA
Date: Fri, 4 Sep 1992 21:31:29 GMT

Keywords: 

In article <16329@pitt.UUCP> geb@dsl.pitt.edu (gordon e. banks) writes:
]Most people are exposed to EBV in childhood and have antibodies.
]What you meant was having antibodies doesn't mean you have the
]disease.  It does mean you were infected at one time.  Your
]mom probably thought you just had "the flu".  Some older
]people get it for the first time and get "mono".  The other
]complications are rare.

The EBV test can tell if the infection is current or not. I don't know
how, but I have had one and it was composed of several different tests
with a set of rules for interpreting them.
-- 
John Moore NJ7E, 7525 Clearwater Pkwy, Scottsdale, AZ 85253  (602-951-9326)
john@anasazi.com ncar!noao!asuvax!anasaz!john anasaz!john@asuvax.eas.asu.edu
This is a newer version of the memetic .signature infection.  Now that's an
idea.  Copy it into your .signature today!
Newsgroups: sci.med
From: dyer@spdcc.com (Steve Dyer)
Subject: Re: Xanax
Organization: S.P. Dyer Computer Consulting, Cambridge MA
Date: Wed, 9 Sep 1992 22:08:02 GMT

In article <01sn4w_.strnlght@netcom.com> strnlght@netcom.com (David Sternlight) writes:
>Jim Del Vecchio seems to think mockery is a substitute for rational discourse.

No, he simply knows that it is the responsibility of those making outrageous
claims to provide evidence for them.  We'll provide the skepticism, OK?
Anyone who then replies with "you haven't proven that what I'm saying is
false" deserves whatever mockery he gets.

>The evidence of quick cures for certain kinds of phobias is well and massively
>documented in the NLP and Behavioral Psychology literature,

Oh, really?  I'd love to see some peer-reviewed NLP "15-minute" reports
of cures.

>and some here
>with professional qualifications seem to be well familiar with it, though
>they quite properly point out that it doesn't work for everything (or even,
>they might say, for many things).

And who might that be?

>As to Freud's now-disproven notion that "symptom suppression" will merely
>cause the symptoms to pop up in new and troubling ways, that has also been
>well handled in the literature.

Who was asserting this?  Mr. CFIDS/Lyme/anti-psychiatry/survivor-of-
reading-Alice-Miller?  Who cares?

>In particular the British psychologist
>H.J. Eysenck has written extensively about it, as have others.

I guess fraud isn't enough to discredit a lifetime of distinguished work.

-- 
Steve Dyer
dyer@ursa-major.spdcc.com aka {ima,harvard,rayssd,linus,m2c}!spdcc!dyer
Newsgroups: sci.med
From: strnlght@netcom.com (David Sternlight)
Subject: Re: Phobias, NLP, etc (was Re: Xanax)
Date: Tue, 15 Sep 92 01:16:49 GMT
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services (408 241-9760 guest)


Steve Dyer posts an obscene message. I see that everything I've been
told about him via e-mail is true.

Steve, many know that you have a vile mind and a viler mouth. The
only reason you're tolerated around here is because you sometimes
have useful information.

Your current message is apparently not an example.

Newsgroups: sci.med
From: louis@medici.trl.OZ.AU (Louis Denger)
Subject: Re: Sleeping Problem
Organization: Telecom Research Labs, Melbourne, Australia
Date: Tue, 15 Sep 1992 10:55:28 GMT

From article <240015@hpbbi4.BBN.HP.COM>, by sude@hpbbi4.BBN.HP.COM (#Susanne Denninger):
> I'm currently experiencing the following problem : When going to bed at about
> 11 p.m. I fall asleep relatively easily (no problem so far), but then I wake up
> in the middle of the night (e.g. 3 a.m.) and can't go back to sleep again.

...
...
> 
> Does anybody know of any other reasons (e.g. medical conditions) which could
> cause this problem ?
> 
> What can I do to have an uninterrupted sleep or go back to sleep if I wake up
> during the night ?
> 
> Susanne Denninger
> Hewlett-Packard GmbH, Germany

I have a similar problem in Melbourne (Aust).
This comes from air pollution, and I get blocked nose.
There is nothing to do in my case.
To go back to sleep I have to unblock my nose.

Regards

Louis
> 
Newsgroups: sci.med
From: dyer@spdcc.com (Steve Dyer)
Subject: Re: Depression: Nutritional treatments
Organization: S.P. Dyer Computer Consulting, Cambridge MA
Date: Wed, 9 Sep 1992 22:59:54 GMT

In article <h3sn7nf.sss@netcom.com> sss@netcom.com (Small Systems Solutions) writes:
>You are mistaken.  Double-blind studies have been conducted with
>L-Phenylalanine and L-Tyrosine.  I'm sure someone can dredge up
>the citation -- L-P was at least as effective as the most commonly
>prescribed drugs.  

I'll let _you_ dredge these up.  The studies I've seen have not been
impressive.  If any of these amino acids were consistently effective
in treating depression, they would certainly be used.  The available
drugs do not work for everyone, and psychiatrists are always eager to
have another tool which they can use.  But at the same time, I can't imagine
anything more cruel (and cynical) than promoting a substance which
is ineffective.  It's a waste of everyone's time.  So far, these AAs
don't seem to be more than that.

The fact that a drug can't be patented isn't an obstacle to a drug company
making LOTS of money (despite the amino-acid fanatics' claims that this is
the big conspiracy)--just look at the use of l-DOPA in Parkinsonism.

>One of the side-effects with Phenylalanine that did not occur with
>Tyrosine was an increase in Blood Pressure.  Abd folks with PKU know
>better than to take it....  As folks with melanoma shouldn;t take
>Tyrosine.

How's this: NO ONE should be self-treating themselves with megadoses
of amino acids.

-- 
Steve Dyer
dyer@ursa-major.spdcc.com aka {ima,harvard,rayssd,linus,m2c}!spdcc!dyer
From: geb@dsl.pitt.edu (gordon e. banks)
Newsgroups: sci.med
Subject: Re: "Incompetent doctors"
Date: 9 Sep 92 15:43:22 GMT
Organization: Decision Systems Laboratory, Univ. of Pittsburgh, PA.

In article <18j6lpINNike@agate.berkeley.edu> werner@soe.berkeley.edu (John Werner) writes:
>
>I'm sorry if I struck a raw nerve.  You're right.  Ihouldn't have
>stereotyped the entire group, and I'm sure there are good doctors in
>the military and VA.  At the risk of another stereotype, I'd
>actually expect the VA ones to be better; working there probably
>takes a fair bit of dedication, given the VAs reputation, deserved
>or not.  But from what I hear, many of the military doctors seem to
>be there because the government paid off their med school debts, and
>don't seem to really care.
>

Another reason stereotypes don't hold up.  Some VA docs are there
because they are dedicated.  SOme because the VA is a good place
to do research (they may be top specialists in their fields),
some because their university staffs a nearby VA.  But the
converse is also true.  SOme may be there because they are
so nasty they can't attract any private patients, or because
they are alcoholics and can't manage a practice on their own,
or because they want regular hours and are lazy.  You have
to evaluate the individual doc.  Same is true for the military.
Yes, many are there because the military paid their tuition,
but a good doctor is not going to be a bad doctor just because
he or she is "serving their time".  They still are as smart and
as knowledgable as they will be when they get out.  Sure,
the military is a similar refuge for bad docs as the VA.
I know of cases of docs who were sued so many times for malpractice
they couldn't get insurance, so they joined the Navy!  But
I also know some excellent ones that were formerly in the service,
and I know that if you found someone like them things would turn
out well.  The main problem with the military, the VA, and HMOs
is lack of choice.  If you get stuck with a bad doc, you can't
just switch easily.  I really don't know what the answer to
that is other than spending your own money if you have any.

-- 
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Gordon Banks  N3JXP      | "Skepticism is the chastity of the intellect, and
geb@cadre.dsl.pitt.edu   |  it is shameful to surrender it too soon." 
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: lingane@i5160e.nrl.navy.mil (Kayleen Lingane)
Newsgroups: sci.med
Subject: Eye problems
Date: 10 Sep 92 11:36:38 GMT
Organization: US Naval Research Laboratory, Acoustics Division

My husband has been having a strange thing happen with his eyes.  I would
like to know its anything to worry about.  One of his eyes dialates, and
stays that way for a few hours.
He went to an optometrist on Saturday, he told her it had been happening, but
it wasn't happening at the time and she couldn't find a problem.
He wears extended wear contacts, and doesn't take them out or clean them as
often as he should.  The dialation happened again last night when he wasn't
even wearing his contacts, but had been all day.
Should he go to an ophthalmologist or another kind of doctor???
Any help would be appreciated.

Thanks
Kay
Organization: Carnegie Mellon, Pittsburgh, PA