From: jerry@msi.com (Jerry Shekhel)
Subject: Re: Future Amiga chipsets
Organization: Molecular Simulations, Inc.
Date: Tue, 22 Dec 1992 20:08:16 GMT
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David Navas (dnavas@oracle.uucp) wrote:
:
: Informative discussion you're having here, mind if I join?
:

Of course not.  Go right ahead!

:
: Well, personally, I would define crippled as any machine whose principle
: communication's bus cannot transfer memory at anything even approaching a
: rough approximation of processor speed.
:

Does anyone else define it that way?  Face it, your definition is totally
arbitrary.

:
: You've got these great 66Mhz,
: 32 bit processors that are running through an 8Mhz 16bit bus.  If you can't
: see how that might affect you, you're living in some other universe.
:

Really?  Well, in *my* universe the average hard drive isn't capable of
more than, say, 1.5-2MB/sec, which ISA can easily deal with, with plenty of
room to spare.  What about your universe?

:
: "implies that it has difficulty performing everyday tasks"
:
: Think about this for a minute.  How are you defining "everyday tasks"?
:

I define "everyday tasks" for an expansion bus as "interfacing with normal
peripherals found in most personal computers".  Is that an unfair definition?
What good is a 550 GB/s bus if all your peripherals being cranked at once
don't add up to 5MB/s?

:
: Now it is true that the PC is getting important additions in the way of
: LocalBus.  However, if processor-speed access continues to be limited to just
: memory and video, you've already limited the extent of your horizons,
: confining yourself to a box that is bigger than the one you were in before,
: but no less constraining, and no less limited to the (inaccurately ascribed,
: at this time) banal mediocrity for which PCs are notorious.
:

Where are you getting your information?  LocalBus supports any type of
peripheral, not just video.  Look at a Gateway ad; most of their PC's now
ship with LocalBus disk controllers.  Besides, the fact that a bunch of
frustrated Amiga fanatics consider PC's "banally mediocre" has no bearing
on reality.  Your attempt to pass it off as common knowledge is typical as
well as laughable.

:
: Had you folks existed in a vacuum (sp?), you wouldn't have the hi-res graphics
: cards you have now, as "everyday tasks don't require it."  You wouldn't have
: sound cards either "who needs those?"  What you probably WOULD have is a
: 128Mhz Pentium computer with a version of Word Perfect that required two
: or three extra function keys and ALT-modifiers that no one has created a
: keyboard for yet.
:

Your point, please?

:
: What makes me sick about -some- of the arguments PC folks (that includes
: Amiga folk!) put forward is that they DEFINE what computers can do for them
: in the future by what they're doing for them RIGHT NOW.  It's all very well
: to say that "I bought a PC because I wanted to be able to afford 1024x768,"
: or "I bought an Amiga because it had the best animation software I could
: find."  But proselytizing (sp?) a particular computer because it somehow
: achieves some kind of mediocre standard during "everyday chores" and then,
: even worse, proclaiming how cheap these wizz-bang 88Mhz, clock-doubled,
: FM stations (aka PCs) are is the most incredibly NAIVE thing to say.  How
: can you possibly advocate anything as "a giant leap forward in processing
: technology" when all it achieves is (to paraphrase) adequacy in day-to-day
: tasks.
:

Nice speech, but totally pointless.  Technology doesn't exist for technology's
sake -- it has to be useful for human beings, *today*.  I have to have a 
computer *today*, and *today* there aren't any peripherals which would
seriously tax the ISA bus.  Why should I spend extra for a fast bus and
get *nothing*, when I could spend the money on a 24-bit graphics card and
get *something*?

:
: That's not revolutionary.
: It's not even EVolutionary.
: It's sick, it's not what the computer revolution is about, please leave
: before you do us any MORE harm.
:

Thanks for the advice :-P  Come on, face it.  Computers are tools.  When I'm
in the market for a drill or a screwdriver, I'll take the one which is the
most capable of helping me with the tasks I need to accomplish, even if
there's another one whose specs look more macho on paper.

:
: And that's as much directed to Amiga users who think that the A600 is some
: kind of benchmark computer that everything else should size up to as PC
: users who think that ISA "isn't so bad."
:

I ask you again.  What can't my ISA PC do directly because of ISA bus
limitations?  Look, I'll even help you by mentioning one thing: DMA to
memory above 16MB can't happen due to the ISA's 24 address lines, but then
again, it's invisible at the end-user level.  Is there anything else?

:
: Having said all of that, you are right about one thing -- it does amount
: to what you want to use your machine for.  Frankly, the PC is mostly just
: a status symbol.
:

Status symbol?  A computer?  Ha!  Not within my group of friends, unless
you're talking about "nerd status" or something such.

:
: Let's face it, we don't write 20 letters a day, we don't
: do daily mailings to 100s of relatives, most of use don't balance our
: checkbooks with or without a computer, and as far as requiring a database,
: I'd bet more families have encyclopedias.
:

Are you the same person who complained a few paragraphs before about
people who base their computer purchasing decisions on what they can
do with computers RIGHT NOW?  Think about it, and when you make up your
mind, let's resume this discussion.

:
: David C. Navas
:
--
+-------------------+----------------------------+---------------------------+
| JERRY J. SHEKHEL  | Molecular Simulations Inc. | Time just fades the pages |
| Drummers do it... |     Burlington, MA USA     | in my book of memories.   |
|    ... In rhythm! |        jerry@msi.com       |         -- Guns N' Roses  |
+-------------------+----------------------------+---------------------------+