HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.christia
Date:         Thu, 27 Aug 1992 06:19:46 EDT
From:         Marty Helgesen <MNHCC@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Subject:      Re: Forgiveness of Sins, by Priests?

        Wolfgang,

        In the Catholic Church, and, I think, in the Orthodox Churches,
        which also have confession to a priest, confession is required.
        It is required by God's command, rather than by the nature of
        things.  That is, a Catholic or Orthodox Christian can obtain
        God's forgiveness for his sins without confessing to a priest but
        still must confess because God wants it that way.  Also, in the
        Catholic Church and, I think, in the Orthodox Churches, absolu-
        tion by the priest is an essential part of the sacrament which
        brings about the forgiveness.  As the Council of Trent said, what
        the priest does is not "the mere ministry of pronouncing  and
        declaring that the sins of the person confessing are remitted,
        provided only that he believes himself absolved."

        Marty Helgesen
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Newsgroups: bit.listserv.christia
Date:         Wed, 26 Aug 1992 11:08:18 CST
From:         A16905@ITESO.BITNET
Subject:      Re: Idea !

We can make a votation on that, We can propose some 'topics' and we vote
the day before the 'Prayer day'.

Please, mail me privately if you'd like to enter the group.

Shalom,
Memo.
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Newsgroups: bit.listserv.christia
Date:         Thu, 27 Aug 1992 11:10:12 CST
From:         A16905@ITESO.BITNET
Subject:      RE: Mary's other children.

Yes, absolutely, but stable grown men. Mary would have stayed with them
instead of going with Jesus in a 3 year trip !

Shalom,
Memo.
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Newsgroups: bit.listserv.christia
Date:         Thu, 3 Sep 1992 18:38:00 CDT
From:         BKCOBB@LIFE.UAMS.EDU
Subject:      Re: 2 Peter 3

Please cite chapter and verse where the world was predicted to end in the O.T.
but the lives of individuals did instead.

Brian
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Newsgroups: bit.listserv.christia
Date:         Fri, 4 Sep 1992 09:37:54 CDT
Comments:     In-Reply-To: note of Fri,
              4 Sep 1992 13:25:10 GMT from 78witherspoo@CUA.EDU
From:         Stuart <K119TO@TAMVM1.BITNET>
Subject:      John Witherspoon (was Civil Disobedience)

From:   Stuart T Oliver
Tom,
Regarding your offer to post on John Witherspoon, _please do!_  I always find
it personally challenging to read about people who had great impacts for God
in their generation.

Christia in general:  Does anyone have any info on Samuel Rutherford???  Since
Schaefer comments on him so much I thought it might be interesting to find out
more about him.

MAKS:  I just wanted to say *THANK YOU*  for all of your work in posting these
Schaefer interviews.  That is a lot of typing and I wanted to let you know
that it is very much appreciated by myself and other friends of mine that are
on Christia.


                         Thanks again,

                                Stuart Oliver
                                Texas A&M University





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Newsgroups: bit.listserv.christia
Date:         Sun, 23 Aug 1992 13:31:43 EST
From:         Ian Williams <iwilliam@AU.ORACLE.COM>
Subject:      Re: Catholicism
X-To:         CHRISTIA@ASUVM.INRE.ASU.EDU
              Zimmerman" at Aug 22, 92 3:18 pm

>Ian states that the Roman Catholic doctrines are based on incorrect
>interpretations of scripture.  How do you know they're incorrect?  Unless
>I'm mistaken, none of us can know for sure who's interpreted the scriptures
>correctly, if anyone.
>

Well Angela, I maintain that they are incorrect because they are being used
to contradict the rest of the word of God, and as most Christians know, the
Bible is the infallible word of God, it does not contradict itself...

There are serval ways of making correct intrepretations of scripture.
In Theology there are three main streams of Hermenutics (sp?) which is the
study of the intrepretation of the Word..

One must first look at the context of a verse of scripture within a paragraph,
then look at that paragraph within the book, then look at that book within
the human author who penned it, then look at that author in the light of
the bible..

An example is the word Flesh.. Some authors use it to mean to the sinful
self , whilst others simply refer to it as the Body... To get those two
mixed up would be a hermenutical error, not a question of 'interpretation
to form doctrine'.



---------------------+-------------+-----------------------------------------
Ian Williams         |    _--_|\   |      Internet: iwilliam@au.oracle.com
Oracle Systems       |   /      \  |	  Phone	  : +61 8 239 3900
Adelaide, Australia  |   \_.--*_/  |
                     |         v   |
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X-Orig-To: Christia@asuacad
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.christia
Date:         Wed, 2 Sep 1992 19:48:33 CDT
From:         THERESA BLACKWELL <TBLACKWL@USMCP6.BITNET>
Subject:      Ok, ok, ok....

  Hey, gang... I know I just got back on here today, but I just
 went through about 20 (?) messages... Half of which sounded like
 flames to me...
 C'mon, everyone, give the flame-throwin' a rest for a while...
 Even Carol and I get lost in all the hullabaloo! (Don't we??)
 The way I see it, is the same way my former "roomie" and
 Christia buddy sees all this:
  I will take the liberty to quote my friend Joy E. "Marcie"
 Locke :
    "G, ... I don't understand something... Why is it
 that we CHRISTIANS always fight and bicker about our
 differences of belief as far as tradition and Religion go?
     "Right now, everyone... both Catholic and Protestant
 are fighting about 'who's right and who's wrong'... and
 'this is the way it's done...' ... Meanwhile, the lost world
 is dyin' and goin' right to Hell...
    "Why can't we stop fightin' and feuding among ourselves,
 set aside our denominational differences, and just concentrate
 on spreading the message that "God loves ya" to all the lost
 people in the world..."

 Ok, everybody... I don't think "Marcie" is on this list right
 now,... in fact she's in band rehearsal at Louisiana Tech...
 But I know if she saw all the flames here, she'd be pretty
 well upset that we all just can't share the Love of Christ
 with each other and the world...
 I, myself, have not actually lived up to the Lord's standards
 much lately, but then, no one's perfect, and I certainly
 don't have all the answers.... but I *KNOW THE ONE WHO DOES!*
 His name is JC... Jesus Christ.
 Let's get back to sharing HIS love... not arguing and flamin'
 EACH OTHER because we see the same stuff on a different level.
 Let's all pull together on here, and really get down to
 what HE'd have us do.
 Fair enough????
 Hope so...
 In HIS love...
 "G"... (Theresa Blackwell)

 * <TBLACKWL@USMCP6.BITNET>
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Newsgroups: bit.listserv.christia
Date:         Fri, 28 Aug 1992 16:01:00 EST
From:         WKJ <JAMES@XAVIER.BITNET>
Subject: Re: somalia

Memo,

Good to hear from you. I was a little concerned that I may have been a bit
insensitive with you earlier, and I had no intention of jarring any feelings.

If I did, I apologize, and beg your pardon.

God bless you.

Your idea is great. This group can agree to pray as they log on, and before
posting any responses to the list. From what I have seen and heard, the needs
are great, and I have no idea how the Great and Almighty Heavenly Father is
going to make these things work together for good to those who love Him, but
I have not a nuetrino of doubt but that He will; for where needs abound, Grace
also greatly abounds. God is able to make all grace abound, and shall supply
all of your needs according to His riches in glory by Christ Jesus.

So, let it be written, let it be done. As with all of the things that we do, let
us do it in the name of the Lord Jesus ( to whom be praise, glory, and honour
now & everMORE ).



WKJ
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.christia
Date:         Tue, 1 Sep 1992 17:47:38 EDT
Comments:     Converted from PROFS to RFC822 format by PUMP V2.2X
From:         Angela Zimmerman <AMZIMM01@ULKYVM.LOUISVILLE.EDU>
Subject:      Cold Springs, KY

Item Retrieval Assistant, DADS
Phone: 588-6757

"The coming of Mary" has been the hot topic around here for the past couple
days (since it's happening in our state and all, that's not strange!)  :).
According to the news this morning people saw Mary and they were talking about
it becoming a shrine for people who had seen her.  If anyone's interested,
I can type in the interesting stuff from our newspaper from today (and
from tomorrow's as well, if there's anything in it) about it.
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Date:         Wed, 2 Sep 1992 14:09:00 EST
From:         "DRCV06::GRAHAM" <GRAHAM%DRCV06.decnet@DRCVAX.AF.MIL>
Subject:      God's warnings.
X-To:         christia <christia@asuvm.inre.asu.edu>

Does God always warn of destruction beforehand?  This question is the core
of the thoughts on Sodom and the comments that were made to the effect that
there must have been a warning for the people to reject, it just wasn't
recorded.

It is not required for God to warn anyone.  It is not at all demonstrable
from the Bible that God does this.  He does warn sometimes, as in Nineveh,
but there are other times where no warning is offered.  Remember that Sodom
had a sister city, Gomorrah.  The angels didn't even go to that town, yet
it was destroyed out of hand.

Isaiah records a day in about 701 B.C. when 185,000 Assyrians were
destroyed by the Angel of the Lord with no warning.  They had no reason to
believe in Israel's God, they were never presented with information about
Him.

Of course, the biggie was the flood.  There is no record that Noah warned
anyone, only his family were duly warned and saved.  He is called a
"Preacher of Righteousness, but this doesn't at all indicate that he warned
people of the coming deluge.  Look at the ark, it was designed to save only
what it did.  There was no intent of saving more than eight persons and the
animals.

There is no real need to try to explain these instances.  They stand as
they are.  God is sovereign and can do as He chooses, and, in fact, does
exactly as He chooses.  God doesn't watch history, He makes it.

Dan Graham
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Date:         Fri, 4 Sep 1992 11:37:00 EST
From:         "DRCV06::GRAHAM" <GRAHAM%DRCV06.decnet@DRCVAX.AF.MIL>
Subject:      Getting back to God. (US politics).

No, no!  The US cannot get back to God, it was never there in the first
place.  Christians will always be a minority, and should be a hated
minority.  Why do you want the US to get back to God.  If you feel such a
need personally, go to your closet ahd seek the Throne.  If you feel such a
need for your neighbor, tell them of Jesus.  There is no need for the
nation to do anything regarding Christianity, especially "get back to God,"
which it cannot do.

Speaking now as a nation:  Were we back to God when we slaughtered Native
Americans?  Were we back to God when Catholics were murdered and driven out
of many cities, just for being there?  Were we back to God when we imposed
our military might on the Mexicans in the 1840's?  The founders of this
country were mostly products of the Age of Enlightenment, not Christians.
(Notice I said mostly.)  There has never been anything to go back to.  What
Christians need to do is to go forward and spread the gospel and let the
nation do what it will.

Dan Graham
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Newsgroups: bit.listserv.christia
Date:         Wed, 2 Sep 1992 12:56:44 EDT
From:         Leo W <Leo_W@QM.CIRCA.UFL.EDU>
Subject:      Scripturette 9/2
X-To:         Christia <christia@asuvm.inre.asu.edu>

"That grace teaches us to live on earth now in a wise and right way -- a way
that shows that we serve God.  We should live like that while we are waiting
for the coming of our great God and Savior Jesus Christ" (Titus 2:12b-13a).

"All these great men died in faith.  They did not get the things that God
promised his people.  But they saw them coming far in the future and were glad.
 They said that they were like visitors and strangers on earth" (Hebrews
11:13).

"He will come a second time, but not to offer himself for sin.  He will come
again to bring salvation to those who are waiting for him" (Hebrews 9:28).

Yours in Christ Jesus,
Leo

Scriptures quoted from the International Children's Bible (ICB), New Century
Version, copyright 1986, 1988 by Word Publishing, Dallas, Texas 75039.  Used by
permission.
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X-Orig-To: CHRISTIA@ASUACAD.BITNET
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.christia
Date:         Thu, 3 Sep 1992 12:08:11 CDT
Comments:     Answering received message
From:         THERESA BLACKWELL <TBLACKWL@USMCP6.BITNET>
Subject:      Yo, Doug!!!

 I will put it this way:
 My pastor's son, Matt, stated to me in a letter that he's tryin'
 to witness to a friend of his. This friend is a liberal HINDU, and
 Matt tells me he prays to "all gods" ... just to be safe I guess.
 Matt also told me "I'm amazed at God's perfect timing... he
 uses us as instruments of healing, and encouragement ... yet
 some people say 'there is no God'... Gimme a Break! What more
 do they want?  But, we know the TRUTH... 'cause we got da PROOF!"

 I guess the same could be said for JW...
 They deny the Devinity of Christ, yet still believe he's God.
 (is that how it goes???)
 Geez... get real...
 I agree with Matt....

 Maybe these people will somehow get a clue, and wake up to
 the REALITYY of Jesus Christ, and the CHRISTIAN faith...
 NOTE: I did not say "Christian RELIGION"...
 before it's too late.
 All we can do is pray that they will see the truth.
 Keep smilin' dude... God loves ya!
 Theresa / "G"
 PS... Hey gang... I will send Matt a post to see if he's
 interested in joinin' Christia.... he's an awefully busy
 grad student at Ole Miss... but he's really and truly a
 DIEHARD when it comes to his love for Jesus.
 You'd all love this guy!


 * <TBLACKWL@USMCP6.BITNET>
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Date:         Sun, 23 Aug 1992 17:54:20 EST
From:         Kerry Stephenson <KSTE@PURCCVM.BITNET>
Subject:      Re: Anti-Catholicism: "Saul, Saul, why ..."
              23 Aug 1992 22:39:35 GMT from <creps@SILVER.UCS.INDIANA.EDU>

Steve:

Your statement that to follow Mary is, by implication, to follow
Christ has a few flaws.

Certainly, we should follow any leader, or any person, not
*because* that person follows Christ, but *as* they do.  This
means that we do not grant *anyone* special status for interpreting
His will, because they, as we, are human and fallible.

By your logic, if I follow Pat Robertson's financial advice, I
am, by implication, following Christ, since he is an ordained minister.
I follow neither Pat Robertson, nor the Pope, but Christ and Christ
alone.

Love INC,
         ---Kerry
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Newsgroups: bit.listserv.christia
Date:         Thu, 27 Aug 1992 10:24:19 EST
From:         Kerry Stephenson <KSTE@PURCCVM.BITNET>
Subject:      Re: FYI: homophobic
              27 Aug 1992 12:08:00 GMT from
              <Z_STAFF_CL@SOUTHAMPTON-INSTITUTE.AC.UK>

Carol (Long):

Yes it is understandable that homosexuals would be disturbed at being
persecuted.  But Christians, too, have been persecuted.  No one accused
those who did so of being "phobic".  People who persecute are in sin.
It is just as much a sin to beat up a homosexual as it is to engage
in homosexual activity.  It is not a psychological disorder (as
"phobia" implies).  It is not a sickness.  It is a sin that must be
repented of, forgiven, and put away.

Speaking the truth in love is not a sickness or a sin.  It is a commandment
of God.

Love INC,
           ---Kerry
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Newsgroups: bit.listserv.christia
Date:         Fri, 4 Sep 1992 12:00:50 CST
From:         A16905@ITESO.BITNET
Subject:      Re: On-Line Bible: NASB availabl

Joe,

If you have FTP access from your machine and about 8 MegaBytes of free space
you can down load OLB this way:

From the system prompt type:

ftp wuarchive.wustl.edu

You'll be prompted for a Username that MUST be 'anonymous' and a password,
please put your E-Mail address as password (anything would do it but system
administrators like to know who's logging on their machines)

type :

cd /doc/bible

(or is it /pub/doc/bible ?)

and now :

binary

finally :

mget *.*
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Newsgroups: bit.listserv.christia
Date:         Mon, 31 Aug 1992 12:19:08 CST
From:         "William M. Jordan" <IF20159@LATECH.BITNET>
Subject:      Re: Christian Youth

Our youth group this summer had a very successful fund raising event.
It did involve food, was not anything like a bake sale.  They turned our
church's meeting area one night into a Mexican Restaurant.  It was
decorated with banners and other things to remind the people of Mexico.
Some of the youth dressed up in semi-formal wear to act as waiters and
waitresses.  There was even one of the teenagers to act as our hostess
who found us a table to sit at.  Other teens made sure that we always
had enough tea, etc., to drink.  To simplify everything, there was
only one menu--fajitas with beans and rice.

The adults loved it, and there was a big crowd.  The kids enjoyed the
work converting the church into the restaurant.  They raised enough money
to help subsidize the youth mission trip later during the summer.  All in
all, everyone seemed to benefit.

In Christ, Bill

William M. Jordan            Voice       (318) 257-4304
Mechanical & Industrial      FAX         (318) 257-2562
     Engineering Dept.       Bitnet      IF20159@latech.bitnet
Louisiana Tech University    Internet    jordan@engr.latech.edu
Ruston, LA 71272
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Newsgroups: bit.listserv.christia
Date:         Sat, 29 Aug 1992 01:53:45 EST
From:         Kerry Stephenson <KSTE@PURCCVM.BITNET>
Subject:      Re: Radical feminism, the ERA and Pat Robertson

Dan:

Well, nobody actually *said* that the ERA would preserve the
draft exemption for women.  They just responded to the charge
by pointing to the text of the amendment (which seems to be
a pretty good argument on the surface, since ERA didn't
mention anything about the draft at all.)

Love INC,
         --Kerry
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Newsgroups: bit.listserv.christia
Date:         Mon, 31 Aug 1992 02:51:27 EDT
From:         Marty Helgesen <MNHCC@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Subject:      My Brother Was An Only Child

Bob,

You object to James Kiefer's mention of St. Matthew's practice of
quoting Old Testament passages out of context because he finds that
the words themselves aptly describe something in the life of Jesus as
a reply to your comments on John 2:17 because St. John is not St.
Matthew.  However, the passages in St. Matthew's Gospel do indicate
that this was an acceptable practice at the time.  Furthermore, St.
John's personal practice is not relevant because he was not making
the comparison to Psalm 69 himself.  He recorded that "his disciples
remembered that it was written..."  (Maybe St. Matthew was the disci-
ple who first mentioned it.:-))

Immediately after Ps. 69:9, which you quoted, the speaker says, "When
I wept and chastened my soul with fasting, that was to my reproach.
I made sackcloth also my garment; and I became a proverb to them..."
Apart from the one incident when Jesus was led into the desert to be
tempted there is no record of Him fasting.  In fact He draws a con-
trast between Himself and John the Baptist:  "For John came neither
eating and drinking, and they say, He hath a devil.  The Son of man
came eating and drinking, and they say, Behold a man gluttonous and a
winebibber.  A friend of publicans and sinners." Matt 11:19-20.  Ps.
69:10-11 would seem to apply more to John the Baptist than to Jesus.
That means that one must be careful about applying each part of the
prophecy to Jesus.

However, even taking the words  "I have become an outcast to my
brothers, a stranger to my mother's sons" as part of the Messianic
prophecy, "mother" can be understood as Jerusalem and the "mother's
sons" as His fellow Jews.  If you think the more probable interpreta-
tion is that Mary had other children, that is up to you.  As I said
in my previous posting, my concern is not to prove that the Catholic
(and Orthodox) teaching is true, but only to show that texts quoted
against the Catholic teaching can legitimately be interpreted in a
sense compatible with the Catholic teaching.

Marty Helgesen
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Date:         Mon, 31 Aug 1992 15:17:18 MST
From:         Madge McBurney <ISPMOM@ASUACAD.BITNET>
Subject:      Re: State Fair
              31 Aug 1992 00:52:56 EDT from <AMZIMM01@ULKYVM.LOUISVILLE.EDU>

On Mon, 31 Aug 1992 00:52:56 EDT Angela Zimmerman said:
>
>Also, a question.  I found a flyer (in fact, I know the person who put
>them up) that has the beliefs, basically, of the secular humanists.
>They seem to be just as moralistic as Christians and in fact share many
>of the same beliefs that I do.  Is anyone interested in my posting
>those?  I know this is a Christian disscusion list, but I thought some
>of you might be interested.  Perhaps I should mail them through
>private mail to whoever wants them (if anyone).  Let me know if you
>want them.  Madge or Steve, if there is enough interest, would it be
>alright to post them to the list?

Hello Angela, it's good to hear from you!!  Please feel free to post
information from the flyer.

Madge McBurney
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