HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: mzimmers@netcom.com (Michael Zimmers)
Subject: Deadskins Edge Bowboys!!
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services  (408 241-9760 guest) 
Date: Mon, 14 Dec 1992 00:12:19 GMT


This has got to be the Niners' year.  I just caught the final minutes
of the Dallas-Washington game.  Trailing by three with not much time
left, the Deadskins supposedly caused Aikman to fumble in his own
end zone.  The ball was scooped up by Emmitt Smith, who supposedly
also fumbled.  Washington recovers and goes on to win.

I say "supposedly" because, while I don't want to violate my self-
imposed policy of not knocking the zebras, it sure looked shaky to
me.  For some reason, CBS only had one camera angle, and Aikman's 
fumble was hard to track, but it was wierd, to say the least.  His
arm was definitely forward, but the officials ruled the fall didn't
leave his hand, so it's still a fumble.  That's a new one on me.

Shakier still was the ruling that Smith fumbled.  To my eye, he had
a knee down before his ball-carrying forearm hit the turf, popping
it loose.  Sure looked like down by contact.

Anyway, the upshot is that the Niners are really going to have to
slam their collective dick in the door to lose home-field advantage
at this point.  So far, it's all going their way this season...
-- 
Michael Zimmers                                    |  Home:  408 996 1984
SoftHelp                                           |  Work:  408 996 1965
Software Solutions for Open Systems                |  Data:  408 996 1974
From: ronnie@uts.amdahl.com (Ronnie Townsend)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.football.pro
Subject: Re: "Neon" Deion
Date: 15 Dec 92 19:50:42 GMT
Organization: Amdahl Corporation, Sunnyvale CA

In article <19921211201306CCP17BK@AUDUCADM.DUC.AUBURN.EDU> kellywh@mail.auburn.edu writes:
>I'm pretty new to this newsgroup (volume's too great!), but...
>
>I'll give credit to Deion Sanders for two things: 1) he's an
>*extremely* dangerous kick returner, and 2) his speed makes him
>a very good pass-coverage man (he can recover from his mistakes).
>But am I alone in thinking that he is a terribly over-rated tackler?
>I'll admit that I'm a Saints fan-atic, but I live close enough to
>Atlanta to see a *lot* of Falcons games, and I've seen him TIME-AFTER-
>TIME shy away from taking on an RB one-on-one, or wait until two or
>three guys slow down a runner before he sort of slaps and pushes his
>his way into an assist.  Granted, I've also seen him lay a pretty
>good lick on somebody to knock him out of bounds, too, but that's
>*far* less often.  All I'm saying is I wish the TV announcers would
>stop ooh-ing and ahh-ing at a play during which he in fact wimps out.
>
>I'm not saying that I think he's gutless - hell, anybody who's only
>180 or 190 *should* pick and choose who he takes on, I'm just saying
>let's not make him more than he is.

I wouldn't flame you for this but having played some defensive back at the 
very light weight of 140 pounds in high school I can tell you that it is 
just plain stupid to go sticking your head in there on some guy who outwieghs 
you by 30-40 pounds. Sanders must pick and choose for the reasons you've cited
and more. He is the fastest man on the Falcon defense and that makes him the 
safety valve. If the guy gets by him... he just could.... gooooo .... all....
the... way... By the time a DB is making a tackle the guy generaly has damn 
good yardage already! His job is to stop the guy from scoring. Deion is not 
a hitter by trade. He is one of the best cover men in the business. For the
record, they list him at 190 pounds. But at 6'1" that's a pretty wiry 190 and 
doesn't make a very good battering ram. Lay off Deion. He does what he does 
quite well... Don't try to make him into Ronnie Lott.  But then, when was the 
last time Ronnie Lott went 99 yards with a kickoff? 
-- 
Ronnie
-------------------------------------------------------------
I'm not cynical... I just don't believe in anything....


Newsgroups: rec.sport.football.pro
From: tokuno@carson.u.washington.edu (Ken Tokuno)
Subject: Re: comments on Vikings/Niners
Organization: University of Washington
Date: Tue, 15 Dec 1992 00:12:08 GMT

GC.SUL@forsythe.stanford.edu (Sullivan) writes:

>Is there a Niner fan out there who will step up and say:

>"I was wrong about Seifert, he is a great coach afterall"

I wasn't wrong, because I've always thought he was a great coach.  No one
realizes how hard it is to get a team to win back to back Super Bowls,
especially if you are a new coach succeeding a legend.

>Defense:
>The Niner D is just about there.  Classic stuff, making those
>third down sacks in the fourth quarter.  Dana Hall is becoming a
>player (gradually), the Seifert method of using lots of D linemen
>all year and all game is beginning to pay dividends.

>I do have one big area of concern, and that's the D backfield's
>hands.  They've made lots of plays this year on passes, yet have
>seemingly dropped more INTs than they've caught.  I wonder if they
>miss Ray Rhodes?  The young D backfield's progress and improvement
>has been fine otherwise.

Just for general interest.  Comparing the first 7 and second 7 for the
49er secondary this season:

		Yards   % Comp.	  TDs   INTs

First 7		1705	 55.6%	   11	  11
Second 7	1389	 54.8%	    8      5	

(By the way, I include sacks as pass attempts and figure yards gained
acoordingly- it gives a more accurate picture IMHO.)

Looks like they've sacrificed the big play (interceptions) for the
sake of better pass coverage. 

>O line:
>McKittrick is reported to have ragged on Young for causing most of
>the sacks by missing open receivers and hanging on to the ball too
>long.  Sorry Bob, that was a good D line you were playing against
>and your boys were banged up.  Bob M is a loose cannon in the
>organization.  Tamm played well until he got hurt.

>The special teams failure where Wilmsmeyer was tackled on the 5
>actually shows how good the special teams have been this year.  I'm
>used to watching the Niners hang themselves on Special teams and
>keep teams that are inferior on D and O in games.  This year they've
>been very good.

On the other hand, does anybody out there remember when the last time was
that the Niners blocked a punt or a field goal attempt?  Those plays are
really big plays and more attention needs to be given to them.

>I was very excited to see Vikes with the ball, needing only to drive
>to FG range to tie it in the last 5 minutes.  Before the drive, I
>thought about how this was the signature of the Niner Super Bowl
>Defenses, to dominate a situation and stop a drive to win it.
>They've only once had what might be considered a dominant D, in
>1984, and this D is not as good.  I do believe they are as good as
>the others now.

I think they're getting there.  Tim Harris is still not the pass rusher
like Fred Dean or Charles Haley have been and no one on the line rushes
the passer like Dwayne Board or Jeff Stover used to do.  They *are* as
good against the run, though.  The secondary still needs to mature. 
Remember that the benchmark is the '84 backfield of Lott, Wright, Hicks,
and Williamson.  Four All-Pros.
From: jjungbau@luke.eecs.wsu.edu (Jim Jungbauer)
Subject: Vikes win the NFC Central!
Originator: jjungbau@luke.eecs.wsu.edu
Organization: Washington State University, Pullman
Distribution: usa
Date: Sun, 20 Dec 92 20:59:18 GMT

The Vikes have just defeated the Pittsburgh Steelers by a score
of 6-3 at Three Rivers in a game that I'm sure was just as ugly
as the score would indicate.  Anyone who saw the game, please
post some impressions/summary.  Congratulations to the Vikes...
1992 NFC Central Champions!

We're in!!!

Jim
-- 
Jim Jungbauer               | Go Vikings, North Stars, Twins, Cougars!
jjungbau@yoda.eecs.wsu.edu  | 
EECS Department             | "Nice move by Bellows... big drive... SCORES!"
Washington State University |    -- Mike Emrick, 1991 Norris Division Finals
Newsgroups: rec.sport.football.pro
From: hariharn@phoenix.Princeton.EDU (Ramesh Hariharan)
Subject: Re: `Redskins Repeat !!!
Originator: news@nimaster
Keywords: To all non-Redskin fans, after the Redskins beat up on the Cowboys this 
Organization: Princeton University
Date: Sat, 12 Dec 1992 15:20:08 GMT

In article <XaR=Y4-@engin.umich.edu> sudhama@engin.umich.edu (Sudhama Gopalan) writes:
>In article <Bz43LI.Cuv@andy.bgsu.edu> dlingle@orchestra.bgsu.edu (Donald Lingle) writes:
>>Sunday, Beware Of The Super Bowl Champs!
>>    I will agree that the Skins are having an up and down season thus far.  But 
>>if we beat the Cowboys this Sunday, you must agree that the Redskins will look 
>>pretty good for repeating as Super Bowl Champs.
>>    The skins have had a bunch of injuries, combined with the late pre-season 
>>start of Mark Rypien.  Some of our players are now returning, (Darrell Green,
>>Jim Lachey), and Rypien's coming out of his slump.
>>    I'm happy to see the Cowboys and Redskins games now mean something.  Before
>>last year, Cowboy fans would hide the week before a Redskin vs. Cowboys game. 
>>As for the 49ers, Vikings, Eagles, Packers, & Saints, I know you would love to 
>>go get a easy Super Bowl victory against an AFC team, but you'll have to wait 
>>for Joe Gibbs to retire or better yet, coach your team.
>>    Well, good luck to all NFL fans.  I am just "touring" the user group.  This
>>id actually belongs to a Pittsburgh Steeler's Fan.
>
>
>Well, I too hope the 'Skins thrash the Cowpokes. Personally, I don't care for/
>hate either. All I'm concerned about is the 49ers - more specifically Montana.
>I'm one of those weirdos who has never seen Montana in action - here's hoping
>the 49ers secure home field advantage before their last game so that I can have
>the pleasure of watching Joe for the first time.
>

Joe who ?

:-) 
-- 
**************************************************************************
Ramesh Hariharan , Chem Engg. Dept., Princeton Univ. 
Research topic : Stabilization of Colloids using diblock copolymers.
Research baap : Bill Russel (no ! not the Celtic legend)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.football.pro
From: sue@dracut.keps.com (Sue Klimowicz)
Subject: Re: gannon
Originator: sue@dracut
Organization: Kodak Electronic Printing Systems
Date: Sat, 19 Dec 1992 02:35:21 GMT

In article <1992Dec18.185217.6746@ultb.isc.rit.edu> vxb8773@ritvax.isc.rit.edu writes:
> i like the way dennis green made a firm decision when making the QB change,
> but i did not agree with it. gannon is a better QB than salsibury. 
> gannon would have matched up much better than "sals-steak" when the vikes
> played the eagles. gannon can run just as well as cunningham. by taking
> gannon out, gannon has lost his confidence. i have not heard of any 
> changes this week, so i assume gannon will start. i hope the staff worked
> with him this week. when he is on, he can be a good QB. here is my
> feeling for the rest of the season:
> 
> gannon will start no matter what (unlessed injured)
> salsibury can come in relief in the second half if needed because the 
> vikes defense should keep the game close.
> 
> 						vinnie
> 						a nervous viking fan


I agree with your assessment of Gannon. One poster said he wasn't  good QB
because he couldn't/wouldn't check for his secondary receivers and would
run with the ball if his primary receiver was covered. I know he did this
during the 49ers game but I didn't see this happen with his other games?
Did I miss something? or does he really do this?

He didn't play that way at Delaware and he broke the schools record for
passing there. Which was broken again this year.  Any U of D people around
to comment?

A soon to be Rochester, NYer but not a Bills fan.

Go Vikes!!!!
From: satish@a.chem.upenn.edu (Satish Nair)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.football.pro
Subject: Phoenix over Giants (19-0)
Date: 13 Dec 92 14:53:12 GMT
Distribution: rec.sport.football.pro
Organization: University of Pennsylvania


The Cardinals shutout the New York GIANTS for the first time since the 49ers
did it back in 1980.

Jonny Johnson scored a career high 150+ yards and 2 rushing TDs.

YAWN!

Bring on the new head coach.

In other GIANTS news, Carl banks and Handley apprently went at each other
during halftime of last weeks game against the Redskins.  Banks made some
comment concerning the defensive scheme they were using.  Handley overheard
and confronted him.  Taylor had to come in and break it up but there
was contact.

satish nair
(ray must_ go giants






Newsgroups: rec.sport.football.pro
From: hariharn@phoenix.Princeton.EDU (Ramesh Hariharan)
Subject: Re: `Redskins Repeat !!!
Originator: news@nimaster
Keywords: To all non-Redskin fans, after the Redskins beat up on the Cowboys this 
Organization: Princeton University
Date: Sat, 12 Dec 1992 23:20:09 GMT

In article <XaR=Y4-@engin.umich.edu> sudhama@engin.umich.edu (Sudhama Gopalan) writes:
>In article <Bz43LI.Cuv@andy.bgsu.edu> dlingle@orchestra.bgsu.edu (Donald Lingle) writes:
>>Sunday, Beware Of The Super Bowl Champs!
>>    I will agree that the Skins are having an up and down season thus far.  But 
>>if we beat the Cowboys this Sunday, you must agree that the Redskins will look 
>>pretty good for repeating as Super Bowl Champs.
>>    The skins have had a bunch of injuries, combined with the late pre-season 
>>start of Mark Rypien.  Some of our players are now returning, (Darrell Green,
>>Jim Lachey), and Rypien's coming out of his slump.
>>    I'm happy to see the Cowboys and Redskins games now mean something.  Before
>>last year, Cowboy fans would hide the week before a Redskin vs. Cowboys game. 
>>As for the 49ers, Vikings, Eagles, Packers, & Saints, I know you would love to 
>>go get a easy Super Bowl victory against an AFC team, but you'll have to wait 
>>for Joe Gibbs to retire or better yet, coach your team.
>>    Well, good luck to all NFL fans.  I am just "touring" the user group.  This
>>id actually belongs to a Pittsburgh Steeler's Fan.
>
>
>Well, I too hope the 'Skins thrash the Cowpokes. Personally, I don't care for/
>hate either. All I'm concerned about is the 49ers - more specifically Montana.
>I'm one of those weirdos who has never seen Montana in action - here's hoping
>the 49ers secure home field advantage before their last game so that I can have
>the pleasure of watching Joe for the first time.
>

Joe who ?

:-) 
-- 
**************************************************************************
Ramesh Hariharan , Chem Engg. Dept., Princeton Univ. 
Research topic : Stabilization of Colloids using diblock copolymers.
Research baap : Bill Russel (no ! not the Celtic legend)
From: lpc4@po.CWRU.Edu (Lawrence P. Colucci)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.football.pro
Subject: Re: BEST team wins Re: Dallas vs Skins
Date: 14 Dec 1992 00:59:19 GMT
Organization: Case Western Reserve University, Cleveland, Ohio (USA)
NNTP-Posting-Host: thor.ins.cwru.edu


Being an impartial observer, I have to say Dallas is the better
team, but has not impressed me as much as they should have after
last year's preformances.  Conversely, I see Washington as a mediocre
team with a pathetic QB who get lucky a lot, and have dissappointed 
many people this year after the quality of last year's team.  I think
that this race is over, and now it comes down to the Cowboys and the
49ers.  I see the 49ers with the edge in experience, and the Cowboys
having more raw talent.  If both play to their potential, I would
say the Cowboys take it to the Super Bowl and blow away Buffalo...
but I wouldn't put money on them to beat San Fran in the playoffs.
Newsgroups: rec.sport.football.pro
From: richs@microsoft.com (Rick Schaut)
Subject: Physics 101 (was Re: Aikman admits to fumble?)
Date: 14 Dec 92 20:35:43 GMT
Organization: Microsoft Corporation
Reply-To: richs@microsoft.com (Rick Schaut)
Distribution:  na

In article <1992Dec14.015050.4519@wam.umd.edu> loffit@wam.umd.edu (Dixie Cup) writes:
>I heard on the radio that a Dallas
>TV station interviewed Aikman and when asked about the fumble Aikman said
>he was jerking his arm back and the ball was knocked out of his hand.

Controversy in this issue is something I have difficulty understanding.
Objects do not acquire momentum or change direction except by the force of
something else.  As this pertains to football, The ball acquires it's
direction of motion from the direction of the motion of the quarterback's
hand. I am baffled by fumbles where the football is moving forward after
leaving the quarterback's hand, and incomplete passes where the football is
moving backward after leaving the quarterback's hand.

In this particular case, Aikman had started to throw the ball, pulled up,
and the ball came lose.  But the ball went _backwards_.  Now, anyone
contending that this should have been ruled an incomplete pass needs to
come up with an explanation for the apparent violation of the laws of
physics that their contention implies.


-- 
Rick Schaut
UUCP:...{uunet | uw-beaver}!microsoft!richs

Microsoft doesn't speak for me, and I don't speak for Microsoft.
Newsgroups: rec.sport.football.pro
From: nix@aslslc43.asl.dl.nec.com (David Nix)
Subject: Re: BEST team wins Re: Dallas vs Skins
Organization: NEC America, Inc Irving TX
Distribution: usa
Date: Thu, 17 Dec 1992 18:04:14 GMT

Edward Lor said:

> You better thank God that the Skins gave two games away (against the Cards and
> the Giants), or the Boys would have been 2nd place in the division (the Skins'
> 6-1 vs the Boys' 6-2 in division record, the Skins 9-2 vs the Boys 7-3 in
> conference record). More evidence of "the Skins lost the division, the Boys
> didn't win it".

If you go by your logic, Dallas gave two away against the Rams and the Skins.
It all evens out, Ed.  When Dallas beat Washington like a drum at Dallas, I
took it as evidence that the Boys were winning the division.

Last year was a fluke year for Rypien.  From here on out Washington will only
be as good as Rypien.  If he plays well then Washington is one of the best in
the league, if he plays like he has this season then Washington drops down a
notch.

Another reason Washington is not performing like last season is the dropoff
in Ricky Ervin's production and the failure of the Special Teams to make
game-breaking plays.

Maybe Dallas and Washington will meet in the playoffs to put to rest many of
these arguments.

Nix
From: davem@uvmark.uucp (Dave Meeks)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.football.pro
Subject: Re: Jimmy Johnson: Love em or hate em, he's a winner (and a whiner)
Date: 17 Dec 92 05:22:17 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: VMARK Software, Inc.

In article <1992Dec16.211812.26360@cbnewsk.cb.att.com> lor@cbnewsk.cb.att.com (edward.lor) writes:
>>|> fumble not being an outright wrong call.
>>(or an outright correct call)
>So what if it's not an outright correct call? My point was that even in
>OUTRIGHT INCORRECT calls, the Joe Gibbs/Dan Reeves don't spend the next
>two days putting up a soap opera. So who has more class? a Gibbs/Reeves who
>can take an outright incorrect call like a man, or a JJ who can't let a 
>"not outright correct/incorrect call" go?

Wow...  a man who will do everything possible to argue a point such as
"not outright correct/incorrect all" for monthes on end to complain about the
"class" of someone is really funny.  

>>All we see is what any coach wants us to see. A show for teevee. JJ is
>>a master psychologist. This team feeds off of him. If he's dwelling on
>>it, he wants the entire team to think about it. There is a purpose to
>>it. 
>But whining is not the only way to make your team a winner. At least Gibbs
>doesn't have to resort to such low-end method.

Nope, maybe Gibbs doesn't have to complain about calls.  But, every coach,
as with every person, has their own methods of working.  Many of the more well
known coaches in sports have complained about calls and such.  Mike Ditka
would be a perfect example.  Jerry Glanville is another.  Same with 
Bum, Sam Wyche, etc...  These coaches are highly emotional, vocal coaches
that speak their minds.  JJ is a successful coach.  He does what it takes
to win, and he is very good at winning.  He has completely turned the Dallas
program back around into the winning program it used to be.  The fact that
he was unhappy about a really, really bad call that basically cost Dallas 
a game, so unhappy that he complained to league officials, is the reaction
of a intense competitor that is a little highly strung...
-- 
David T. Meeks            || "New shadows tugging at the corner of his eye
VMark Software, Inc.      ||  Jostling for attention as the sunlight flares
uvmark!davem@merk.com     ||  Through a curtains tear, shuffling its beams
davem%uvmark@merk.com     ||  As if in nervous anticipation of another day"
Newsgroups: rec.sport.football.pro
From: centry@athena.mit.edu (Jae H Nam)
Subject: Eagles vs Redskins
Organization: Massachusetts Institute of Technology
Date: Mon, 14 Dec 1992 23:31:52 GMT

BIG game for both teams.  Eagles undefeated at home.
However, Eagles' D has allowed around 23 pts. avg in
their last 5 games (4 away, 1 home).  Eagles can't
allow that much against the Skins.

New Orleans plays Buffalo next week (I think). So Eagles
have a chance to pick up a game on them.  Eagles have
beaten the Saints head-to-head.  If Eagles and Saints
both finish at 11-5, Eagles will get home field advantage
- something for the Eagles to push for.

Also, we've had a really nasty habit of win one, lose one ever
since the loss to Washington.

Loss   Washington   (away)
Win    Pheonix      (home)
Loss   Dallas       (away)
Win    L.A. Raiders (home)
Loss   Green Bay    (away)
Win    N.Y. Giants  (home)
Loss   San Fran.    (away)
Win    Minnesota    (home)
Win(OT)Seattle      (away)  <- broke jinx?
???    Washington   (home)

Anyway, call it a hunch, I think we'll beat Washington.
Prediction:  	Eagles 27
		Redskins 17
Newsgroups: rec.sport.football.pro
From: death@rbg.informatik.th-darmstadt.de (Markus Kalb)
Subject: all SB winner
Date: Tue, 15 Dec 1992 14:50:48 GMT
Organization: TU Darmstadt



XXVI	26.1.92	 Washington	- Buffalo	37:24	Minneapolis 63.130
XXV	27.1.91	 N.Y. Giants	- Buffalo	20:19	Tampa	    73.813
XXIV	28.1.90  San Francisco  - Denver	55:10	New Orleans 72.919
XXIII	22.1.89	 San Francisco  - Cincinnati	20:16	Miami	    75.129
XXII	31.1.88  Washington	- Denver	42:10	San Diego   73.302
XXI	25.1.87  N.Y. Giants	- Denver	39:20	Pasadena   101.063
XX	26.1.86  Chicago	- New England	46:10	New Orleans 73.818
XIX	20.1.85	 San Francisco 	- Miami		38:16	Stanford    84.059
XVIII	22.1.84	 L.A. Raiders	- Washington	38: 9	Tampa	    72.920
XVII	30.1.83	 Washington	- Miami		27:17	Pasadena   103.667
XVI	24.1.82  San Francisco	- Cincinnati	26:21	Pontiac	    81.270
XV	25.1.81	 Oakland	- Philadelphia	27:10	New Orleans 76.135
XIV	20.1.80	 Pittsburgh	- Los Angeles	31:19	Pasadena   103.985
XIII	21.1.79  Pittsburgh	- Dallas	35:31	Miami	    79.484
XII	15.1.78	 Dallas		- Denver	27:10	New Orleans 75.583
XI	 9.1.77	 Oakland	- Minnesota	32:14	Pasadena   103.438
X	18.1.76	 Pittsburgh	- Dallas	21:17	Miami	    80.187
IX	12.1.75	 Pittsburgh	- Minnesota	16: 6	New Orleans 80.997
VIII	13.1.74	 Miami		- Minnesota	24: 7	Houston     71.882
VII	14.1.73  Miami		- Washington	14: 7   Los Angeles 90.182
VI 	16.1.72	 Dallas		- Miami		24: 3	New Orleans 81.023
V	17.1.71  Baltimore	- Dallas	16:13	Miami	    79.204
IV	11.1.70	 Kansas City	- Minnesota	23: 7	New Orleans 80.562
III	12.1.69	 N.Y. Jets	- Baltimore	16: 7	Miami	    75.389
II	14.1.68  Green Bay	- Oakland	33:14	Miami	    75.546
I	15.1.67	 Green Bay	- Kansas City 	35:10	Los Angeles 61.946


	Bye Markus (death/NHawk)

	e-mail : death@rbg.informatik.th-darmstadt.de
Newsgroups: rec.sport.football.pro