HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: ppregler@risc.uni-linz.ac.at (Peter Pregler)
Subject: Re: 6x10i font
Organization: RISC, J.K. University of Linz, Austria
Date: Tue, 28 Jul 1992 11:02:08 GMT

In article <1992Jul26.073643.25419@fs7.ece.cmu.edu>, terence@bronco.ece.cmu.edu (Terence Chang) writes:
> In article <712093836.6643.0@watson.bh.andrew.cmu.edu> Richard Weinstein <rw2g+@andrew.cmu.edu> writes:
> >Unfortunately, it had the nasty habit of crashing X.
> >I asked Terence about it, and he said the only time he used
> >that font, it crashed X on him. So, I was wondering if anyone out
> >there was actually using it. I was using it on a dec3100 running
> >X11 windows with the tvtwm window manager...
> 
> That is, the only time I used the font on a *.andrew.cmu.edu DEC 3100.
> It works fine on bronco.ece.cmu.edu (X11R4 DEC 3100, mwm) and presumably on
> cs.cmu.edu machines as well.  But Andrew machines always seem a little
> different from standard Un*x boxes, so I'm not surprised.
> 
The font works well for NCD-Xterms, PC-vga servers, and even for old apollos
running X11R4-servers here at our institute. The window-maganagers are ncdwm,
mwm, and twm. So it must be your special setup.

> Terence
> --
> "People who get nostalgic      |  Terence Chang:
>  about childhood were          |    e-mail: terence@bronco.ece.cmu.edu
>  obviously never children."    |            or an acceptable facsimile thereof
>        -- "Calvin and Hobbes"  |            (subject to change w/o notice)

Sorry, Peter.
-- 
Meditating is still better, than just sitting around and doing nothing.
-------------------------------
Peter Pregler / RISC, University of Linz, Austria
Bitnet: K315470@AEARN.BITNET  Internet: ppregler@risc.uni-linz.ac.at
Newsgroups: rec.games.netrek
From: petonak@chem.psu.edu (Paul Petonak)
Subject: LPS comeback and armies
Date: Fri, 24 Jul 1992 18:51:32 GMT

I havehad a question about LPS comebacks and the armies you generate in
one but my VAST playing experience and reading of this newsgroup has yet
to answer it.

Obviously, when making a comeback from an lps, say when you have 5 planets,
you generate very few armies and they are precious. What I would like to
know is what the 'definitive' answer to what you do with these. Having
found out that there are no definitive answers in netrek, I would like your
opinions.

So, when you have, say, rom, dra, tau, eri, and sir, and ald is at 3, when
tau pops to 5, what is the best course of action for that army? It seems
you have four choices:

1) Leave it there and defend it until you have enough to take ald.

2) Move it to rom, defend it, and wait 'til you have enough to take ald.

3) Have the planet scum pick it up, and float around with it waiting for
   more until he could take the planet. 

4) Pick it up and go dump it on ald to reduce ald's army population by one.

I have seen ALL of these done by varying levels of clueful players. Personally,
I like #2. In one instance where I was ordering some psuedo-newbies around it 
worked very well. I don't think one is good as when you get a couple of planets
to pop it is very difficult to defend them all. I don't think 3 is good as it
is just too easy to blow him the hell up (yet, I see this done consistently,
on bezier yesterday we lost many armies in an lps using this method, yet people
kept doing it). And lastly, I don't think 4 is good since I don't think you
should drop ANy armies in an LPS-like situation unless you will be taking
a planet. It's just too easy to have it pop again. 

So....what say you netrek wizards? 

There is always option 5:

5) Pick up armies and ogg an enemy with kills (which I saw on rwd4 yesterday)



Paul

Icarus
Oral Annie
Big Nifty Balls
From: fadden@uts.amdahl.com (Andy McFadden)
Newsgroups: rec.games.netrek
Subject: Re: Bronco and Rwd4
Date: 30 Jul 92 20:11:01 GMT
Distribution: rec
Organization: Amdahl Corporation, Sunnyvale CA

In article <RWD.92Jul30104828@ERNST.MACH.CS.CMU.EDU> rwd+@CS.CMU.EDU writes:
>
>Well, with bronco about to go offline, rwd4 will become the last bastion
>of CMU arrogance.

Is one server big enough for all of it?

Perhaps you should set up a second server on a different machine, one which
doesn't allow you to do anything but send arrogant messages.  Perhaps Iggy
could fly around though.

>Knock yourselves out.

Ker-pow!

>thud<

-- 
fadden@uts.amdahl.com (Andy McFadden)
[ Above opinions are mine, Amdahl has nothing to do with them, etc, etc. ]
From: dbol@skat.usc.edu (David Bol)
Newsgroups: rec.games.netrek
Subject: Xtrekrc font settings for warring races
Date: 30 Jul 1992 17:22:05 -0700
Organization: University of Southern California, Los Angeles, CA
Distribution: na
NNTP-Posting-Host: skat.usc.edu





Is there a way to setup a .xtrekrc file so that warring enemy's
planets be set apart from 3rd race planet names?


For example if I was on the FED and we were warring with the ROM. My
planets would be boldfaced but the planet names for ROM ORI and KLI
would be in regular text. Sometimes, I don't have access to a color
terminal and forced use monochrome and it is confusing. 

Any light on this matter?

Well, thanks in advance

-Dave
Newsgroups: rec.games.netrek
From: jch+@cs.cmu.edu (Jonathan Hardwick)
Subject: Re: Bronco update
Date: Wed, 22 Jul 92 12:20:25 GMT
Organization: School of Computer Science, Carnegie Mellon

tmohler+@CS.CMU.EDU (Tim Mohler) writes
> What do I see but my pal Spaceman Spiff.
> 
> He, after taunting us with his 19.2K baud DOV (gandalf?) modem and SLIP
> link has the SHEAR (tm) AUDACITY to complain about such little things..
> 
> [do i see the HEINOUS HAND OF HETROSEXUALITY in this?]
> 
> But I in the goodness of my heart (and yours, if you get my drift
> mythology fans....) deign to lean down and answer:
> 
> Easiest solution to this I find is to find and use names that are not
> often duplicated. To wit, names of Aztec dem^H^H^Hgods or such notable
> things as Penis Envy or maybe even HOMO LEATHERBOY.

Actually, given the predilection of Calvin for a stuffed tiger, his
categorization of girls as "Gross and Slimy", and the way his Spaceman
Spiff personae is a total loner, I would predict he is well on the way
to major sexual hangups and/or perversions in later life.

Leatherboy Spiff has a nice ring to it.

> Your sin, oh jch+@a is materialism. Yup, you heard me. Throw away your
> home machine (unknown host)

sex.scandal.cs.cmu.edu.  I thought you'd appreciate the touch.

> Better yet, donate them (the toyz) to the temple of Tezcat. Located 
> nearby in Shadyside. Do yer soul some good.

"He who dies with the most toys wins"
Organization: Carnegie Mellon, Pittsburgh, PA
Newsgroups: rec.games.netrek
Date: Thu, 30 Jul 1992 13:47:48 -0400 
From: "Timothy C. Worsley" <tw1r+@andrew.cmu.edu>
Subject: Re: scrimmage results: Gashouse Gorillas sneak past 12 Angry Men
	<29JUL199215074898@rigel.tamu.edu>
Distribution: rec

Excerpts from netnews.rec.games.netrek: 29-Jul-92 Re: scrimmage results:
Gas.. Mark Hesidence@rigel.tam (891)

> >Gashouse Gorillas beat 11 Angry Men (sans "sunsqueamer") by 
> >1.5 planets during sudden death overtime.
> > 
> >FEDERATION - GASHOUSE GORILLAS
> >43 planets destroyed, 34 planets taken, 997 kids zotzed
>                                          ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

> >ROMULANS - 12 ANGRY MEN
> >29 scenic planets destroyed, 37 planets taken, 1355 innocent kids zotzed
>                                                 ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

>        I realize that the GG were ahead in planets and therefore had 
>        more armies for the 12AM to "zot", but that seems like a large
>        difference.  I guess the FED's were taking fertility pills. 


Ah, yes, BUT. . .

>TOTAL--------  51 scumbags on 12AM ships put out of their misery by GG

>TOTAL-------- 114 innocent men on GG ships heartlessly slaughtered by 12AM

63 difference
63*5= 315

So GG only grew about 120 more armies.  Still quite a few, but not quite
so telling.

ZZnew guy
Newsgroups: rec.games.netrek
From: bcranton@femme.WPI.EDU (Brian W. Cranton)
Subject: On a lighter note
Organization: Worcester Polytechnic Institute
Date: Thu, 30 Jul 1992 05:12:42 GMT

I was recently having a discussion with a few fellow netrek players and
this conversation got onto the subject of the ill fated galaxy class
starships (that died out rather quickly).  The conversation then wandered onto
the topic of new types of starships which could be introduced into netrek
without significantly changing the feel of the game.

Note:  I am not trying to upset anyone, I am just posting the conclusions of
what I thought was an interesting conversation.

The two ideas were:

1)  A designated ogging ship.  Take something like a scout or destroyer,
remove its phasers and troop carrying capacity, limit it to say 4 torpedos
at a time (SC torps), and make it do some large amount of damage when it
blows up (use something like the phaser button to blow it up and have it do
maybe 200-250 points of damage).  If this still leaves the ship as something
too powerful or distruptive to the game, the cloaking ability could also be
removed.  All in all, a kamakazi ship (people ogg as it is, might as well
give them a designated ship to do it in).

2)  A mobile repair/refueling dock.  This one is probably a more reasonable
addition to netrek, something along the lines of the floating repair vessels
the navy uses.  Take an AS, reduce its troop capacity down to 6, give it the
fuel supply and repair capabilities of an SB, and give it the ability to allow
docking.  Also, only allow the ship to carry armies as a regular ship (one 
army per 0.5 kills).  A ship like this would add to the strategy, perhaps
allowing offensives to be sustained longer and to provide the extra support
where needed (possibly in a third space offensive or in a gap where there
are no repair or fuel planets).


One more item:  Once I was asked to help test out a new server, AIX.RPI.EDU,
this server prevented torpedos from passing through planets (allowing
planets to be used as a form of cover).  Have any other servers implemented
a modification like this?

                                   - Brian Cranton

Newsgroups: rec.games.netrek
From: fortony@sonne.cso.uiuc.edu
Subject: Re: Doorstop address
Originator: fortony@lucy
Organization: University of Illinois at Urbana
Date: Tue, 21 Jul 1992 21:45:35 GMT

boutell@cshl.org (Tom Boutell) writes:

>You can find out the numeric address of any location by using telnet
>to connect to that machine; you won't be able to log in, but the numeric
>address gets printed out before the login: prompt. Comes in handy for
>me when I have the same problem.

ah, grasshopper, it is time for you to learn of faulty resolvers and
domain name service.  Come, delve with me into the land of /etc/hosts.
Let us explore the B=-b option in /var/yp/Makefile.  Let us not make
sweeping comments :).

The real way to find out the numeric address of any location is to

a) use /usr/etc/nslookup, which is available on most architecturalities,

b) bug your systems administrator to fix the resolver (this is what is
   called the indirect scientific method),

or

c) ask someone who's on a machine that's set up correctly with appropriate
   name service.

Telnetting to the machine name is questionable; if the client isn't dealing
with names, that's a sign of a machine problem rather than a client problem,
and no amount of using telnet will fix that.

The above is Reality As It Is According to Me on your standard SunOS box.

doorstop.design.iastate.edu is, by the way, at 129.186.8.6, according to
a non-authoritative server called 'uiucdcsc-uiuc-dcs-net.cs.uiuc.edu',
which is my vote for the coolest machine name ever thought of.

>>
>>Thanks,
>>
>>Michelle 
>>(zydeco)

>No problem, O Fellow Bagel.

Munch.

>-- 
>My return address now works!
>Believe it or not there is life after college. At least if you live
>near NYC.

-- 
a b c d e f g h i j k l m n o p q r s t u v w x y z
Felix Sebastian Ortony	fortony@murphy.gis.uiuc.edu
From: jerryw@cs.umd.edu (Jerry Wieber)
Newsgroups: rec.games.netrek
Subject: Re: Golden Bears vs. Lagg U
Date: 21 Jul 92 04:52:22 GMT
Organization: U of Maryland, Dept. of Computer Science, Coll. Pk., MD 20742

In article <1992Jul20.160929.18606@dsd.es.com> rjones@dsd.es.com writes:
 
>The wait queue is the most complicated piece of code in the server,
>IMO.  I'm still trying to figure out how I can implement two wait queues
>without completely hosing it...

> Ray Jones rjones@dsd.es.com Captain of 12 Angry Men

Well, maybe not the most complicated.  I personally think Andy's bolt-on UDP
stuff is the least comphehensible; but the wait queue is up there....

-Jerry <Stress> <Dogmeat>  SINL: <Big Bird>
-- 
                                                           __________ 
 UUCP:     uunet!cs.umd.edu!jerryw   SPOKEN: Jerry Wieber  |/ `-.    | U of Md
 INTERNET: jerryw@cs.umd.edu                                     \_|.|-,  
                                                                    ` - 
Newsgroups: rec.games.netrek
From: jch+@cs.cmu.edu (Jonathan Hardwick)
Subject: Re: IGGY SB
Date: Wed, 29 Jul 92 00:45:42 GMT
Organization: School of Computer Science, Carnegie Mellon

mmoore@mesa.dsd.es.com (Mike Moore) writes
> 	True.  But that's a big if.  Are we letting Iggy hang around
> because Terence has been such a benefactor for netrek?  I personally
> hope iggy goes away along with him, but I'm sure he'll insist on keeping it
> in the official bronco server package, thus ensuring we'll be seeing iggy
> around for a long time to come.

Look, it's really very easy.

Ask the gods of the bronco-based servers you play on to remove Iggy.  

Go on, they're human too.  They won't bite.  Most of them are
interested in keeping their players happy.  You should be able to
convince them to eg put a message in the motd asking for player
opinions, and then hold an e-mail vote for one week.

There.  Took me a whole 2 minutes to think that one up and type it in.
Beats bitching about Iggy, doesn't it? 

Spaceman "c'mere Iggy, we're going to go play with that nice SB" Spiff
Newsgroups: rec.games.netrek
From: terence@bronco.ece.cmu.edu (Terence Chang)
Subject: Re: 6x10i font
Organization: Carnegie Mellon University
Date: Sun, 26 Jul 1992 07:36:43 GMT

In article <712093836.6643.0@watson.bh.andrew.cmu.edu> Richard Weinstein <rw2g+@andrew.cmu.edu> writes:
>Unfortunately, it had the nasty habit of crashing X.
>I asked Terence about it, and he said the only time he used
>that font, it crashed X on him. So, I was wondering if anyone out 
>there was actually using it. I was using it on a dec3100 running
>X11 windows with the tvtwm window manager...

That is, the only time I used the font on a *.andrew.cmu.edu DEC 3100.
It works fine on bronco.ece.cmu.edu (X11R4 DEC 3100, mwm) and presumably on
cs.cmu.edu machines as well.  But Andrew machines always seem a little
different from standard Un*x boxes, so I'm not surprised.

Terence
-- 
"People who get nostalgic      |  Terence Chang:
 about childhood were          |    e-mail: terence@bronco.ece.cmu.edu
 obviously never children."    |            or an acceptable facsimile thereof
       -- "Calvin and Hobbes"  |            (subject to change w/o notice)
From: earharta@sdsc.edu (Alan Earhart)
Newsgroups: rec.games.netrek
Subject: movement of armies
Date: 28 Jul 1992 23:45:39 GMT
Organization: San Diego Supercomputer Center @UCSD.
Distribution: world
Reply-To: earharta@sdsc.edu
NNTP-Posting-Host: sluggo.sdsc.edu

Monday night I checked into a game and I was sent a
message to 'move armies to ROM'.  Since the game
looked pretty active I didn't want to take the time
to ask why.  So, I quit out of the game to go explore
this on my own.

As a general rule, how protected/unprotected should planets
be left?  If you take too many armies away from planets you
leave them open for taking-over.

A word of warning to beginners : practice playing every race.
This will help you to avoid looking completely clueless when
you first enter a game and momentarily forget which color
you are!!!!!!!!!!!  (Of course I didn't do this!!!  Me.... never!!!)

Alan
lunch meat
From: bav@hobbes.ksu.ksu.edu (Brick Verser)
Newsgroups: rec.games.netrek
Subject: Re: Clue Game Stats
Date: 31 Jul 1992 20:31:28 GMT
Organization: Kansas State University
NNTP-Posting-Host: hobbes.ksu.ksu.edu

In article <fortony.712469959@murphy> fortony@sonne.cso.uiuc.edu writes:
>I have no post.  I just like saying "Brick Verser."

I was going to followup to this with something pithy, but then I read
the screamer's rape/pillage/burn posting.  I think I'll cut my losses
quietly and stay silent.  The kid is good...perhaps a career writing
graphic descriptions for Steven King novels is in the offing.

--Brick
From: davidt@ccwf.cc.utexas.edu (David Teo)
Newsgroups: rec.games.netrek
Subject: grit updates and replies
Date: 22 Jul 92 12:27:01 GMT
Reply-To: davidt@ccwf.cc.utexas.edu (David Teo)



BORG (BORG@FAA.SPEECH.CS.CMU.EDU) (Fa)>>> Are you there ? <<<Tue Jul 21
12:34:39
 1992
BORG (BORG@FAA.SPEECH.CS.CMU.EDU) (Fa)>>> How come damage is no longer
prorated.
.. <<<Tue Jul 21 12:35:29 1992

Damage during metamorphosis is still prorated but since isae@iastate.edu
suggested that there should be no extra cost in damage when you
metamorphosize, it is prorated in the normal way.  The prorating seems
ok when I tested it just  now.  However, let me know if you discover any
anomalies.

Key (hakehoe@l_cae13.icaen.uiowa.edu) (R3)>>> Why havn't I been
promoted? <<<Tue
 Jul 21 20:43:29 1992

Many people asked me this question when they have not typed Ctrl-u in
their client.  It explains that you need a high enough defense rating
before you are considered for promotion.  Try that first and let me know
if you think that you still deserve a promotion and didnt get one.

========================================================================
=========

Maximum of 12 players.  From now on, grit will only allow a maximum of
12 players in the game in order to reduce lag.

Borgs during non-borgs hours.  Enough players have complained about that
so....here goes bincomfirm will be set to 1 on non-borg days and people
not using blessed binaries will not be allowed to play.  

You can get the blessed galaxy client with UDP from the ftp site :

pittslug.sug.org
Directory /pub/netrek

and perhaps from some other sources.
Newsgroups: rec.games.netrek
From: genie@netcom.com (The Genie)
Subject: Re: Clue Game Stats
Date: Thu, 30 Jul 92 19:27:44 GMT
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services  (408 241-9760 guest) 

In article <keRtNDe00VoyQPf0oR@andrew.cmu.edu> rw2g+@andrew.cmu.edu (Richard Weinstein) writes:
>Excerpts from rec.games.netrek: 30-Jul-92 Clue Game Stats 
>Brick Verser@hobbes.ksu. (6362)
>
># Name         seconds kills losses planets armies
># 
># Cucumber Boy    3457    55     37       6    139
>
>Wow, who is this guy? There was a guy named Tomato Boy with similarly awesome
>stats in the last clue game. Is it the same person? I'd like to meet him.
>
>--Rick
>
I saw him enter and leave the game with a new name after
Cucumber Boy.  It's Videodrome. etc.

Gene

Newsgroups: rec.games.netrek
From: hayes@valkris.aero.org (Brian Hayes 74-35 x65129)
Newsgroups: rec.games.netrek
Subject: Re: Helping new players get clued
Date: 22 Jul 92 21:57:40 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: Hughes Aircraft Company, EDSG

In article <f2Ep030R3dKi00@amdahl.uts.amdahl.com> fadden@uts.amdahl.com (Andy McFadden) writes:
>The best way to learn Netrek is to get blown up for an hour or two and then
>read the files (and then go get blown up for another few hours).  Most of
>the interesting lessons in Netrek are learned by making mistakes, and you
>really do need to make a LOT of them to become any good.  Becoming just
>generally competent doesn't really require instruction (IMHO).

I agree.  Learn to play scout bomber first (reduces need to dogfight and
sc bombers are invaluable).  And as I've been told many times, clue is 
more important than skill.

	Netrek Player's Code:
	1.  Get a clue.
	2.  See 1.
---
Brian Hayes
Lazy Dog
12 Angry Men					"GRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR"
-- 
*** Brian Hayes hayes@hac2arpa.hac.com (310) 616-5129 ***
Newsgroups: rec.games.netrek
From: petonak@chem.psu.edu (Paul Petonak)
Subject: Discovery GOD
Date: Fri, 24 Jul 1992 18:52:21 GMT

Who is the discovery god and what is his address?


P
Newsgroups: rec.games.netrek
From: baby@info.polymtl.ca (Philippe Grant)
Subject: Re: ARGHHH!  Stupid Ori/Quit proximity!
Organization: Ecole Polytechnique de Montreal, Canada
Date: Mon, 20 Jul 1992 19:50:47 GMT

In article <59080@mimsy.umd.edu> leonard@mimsy.umd.edu (Leonard Dickens) writes:
Path: poly-vlsi!thunder.mcrcim.mcgill.edu!snorkelwacker.mit.edu!usc!wupost!uunet!haven.umd.edu!mimsy!leonard
   From: leonard@mimsy.umd.edu (Leonard Dickens)
   Newsgroups: rec.games.netrek
   Date: 18 Jul 92 16:21:08 GMT
   References: <1992Jul18.060411.6901@beaver.cs.washington.edu>
   Organization: Universal Export Ltd, Regent's Park, London
   Lines: 23

   Donald Tsang writes:
   >I was 0.5 DI away from "Fleet Captain guest", when I hit "d" inside
   >the "Quit" box.
   >
   >"OK, bye!"
   >
   >Arrrrgggghhhhh...
   >
   >Is there anything in the NBR Feature List that will take care of this?

   Nope.  However, since this is easily in the realm of bug, I have added
   an action item to my TODO list to get rid of action upon keypresses in
   the quit window.  This might have helped you; however, one can still
   mistakenly click the mouse on the Quit box instead of Ori.

   If you want more protection than this, propose something.  For
   instance, how about "Quit box disabled until all team boxes disabled".
   Hmm....  sounds interesting.  Should it be optional?  Is there any
   reason not to do this?

Sure, if your boss is coming around, you want to be able to quit ASAP!  How
about a "BOSS" key which brings up a VLSI design and puts you into wait
mode on the (hidden) main screen?






--
Philippe Grant                     |
Etudiant, Genie Informatique       | If it ain't broke,
Ecole Polytechnique de Montreal    | DON'T FIX IT!!!
baby@info.polymtl.ca               | Including this signature!
From: amrk@troi.cc.rochester.edu (Andrew Markiel)
Newsgroups: rec.games.netrek
Subject: Re: Doorstop address
Date: 23 Jul 92 01:09:17 GMT
Organization: University of Rochester (Rochester, NY)

In article <1992Jul22.143908.2673@beach.csulb.edu> kumeda@beach.csulb.edu (ANDY KUMEDA) writes:
>
>Whatever happened to name servers and /etc/resolv.conf?!?  

Darn good question. Gee, I'm learning more about this system stuff everyday.
For some reason, our resolver doesn't seem to be working right...I'll have to
look into it.

By the way, I'm using the standard bronco/UDP client, ftp'ed from pittslug.
I'd assume this was compiled to resolve names properly, but I don't know.

-Grey Elf
Newsgroups: rec.games.netrek
From: petonak@chem.psu.edu (Paul Petonak)
Subject: Re: raw stats from moriarty "clue night" games
Date: Fri, 31 Jul 1992 18:29:21 GMT

Why are we sarcastically refering to these as 'clue night' games?
Aren't they living up to standards? They seem pretty damn intense
and 'tooth and nail' to me. But then again, what the hell do I know
(as I am sure you will all point out).


Icarus
Paul
From: amrk@troi.cc.rochester.edu (Andrew Markiel)
Newsgroups: rec.games.netrek
Subject: Re: New Theme Night On Bezier!
Date: 23 Jul 92 01:47:14 GMT
Organization: University of Rochester (Rochester, NY)

In article <SFD.92Jul22152414@bezier.neuromancer.metaphor.com> sfd@neuromancer.metaphor.com (Scott Drellishak) writes:
>/--------------------------------------------------------------------------\
>| Scott Drellishak   sfd@neuromancer.metaphor.com                          |
>|         "It's Log!  It's Log!  It's big, it's heavy, it's wood!          |
>|          It's Log!  It's Log!  It's better than bad -- it's good!"       |
>\--------------------------------------------------------------------------/

I'm sorry, Scott, but you've got it all wrong. It's *supposed* to be

"It's Ogg!  It's Ogg!  It's better than bad -- it's good!"

:-)

-Grey Elf
Newsgroups: rec.games.netrek