HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: scott@bbx.basis.com (Scott Amspoker)
Newsgroups: soc.motss,talk.politics.misc
Subject: Re: Dyke to head HHS
Date: 13 Dec 92 04:22:13 GMT
Article-I.D.: bbx.135
Organization: BASIS International, Ltd., Albuquerque NM USA

In article <q_h24nr@rpi.edu> buckmr@vccnw06.its.rpi.edu (Ron Buckmire) writes:
>Speaking of which, can someone explain to me why JIM MCRERY (R-LA) from the 5th
>Congressional District was re-elected on Tuesday November 3rd after being outed
>reasonably efectively by _The Advocate_? 
>
>The conservative voters of New Orleans re-elected a known homosexual to 
>reprsent them in Congress?

An open lesbian won a local election here in Albuquerque last Nov. 3.
Her male opponent, who kept sexuality out of the election, told the media 
that he didn't feel it was proper to make her sexuality an election issue.

-- 
Scott Amspoker                       |    
Basis International, Albuquerque, NM |  Too bad ignorance isn't really
                                     |  bliss.  Then it could be outlawed.
scott@bbx.basis.com                  |
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: mike@gordian.com (Michael A. Thomas)
Subject: Re: Genetic Homosexuality?
Organization: Gordian; Costa Mesa, CA
Date: Sun, 13 Dec 1992 00:25:00 GMT

In article <1992Dec12.230336.19641@cbnewsm.cb.att.com>, mls@cbnewsm.cb.att.com (mike.siemon) writes:
> It is also worth noting that adaptationist propaganda to the contrary
> notwithstanding, the situation could exist in perpetuity even if there
> were no advantage if it appeared as a mutation often enough

  This was really my point, and was the gist of what this person
I badly interpreted said. Basically doing the arithmetic shows that
even a 100% infertility rate still takes excruciating long to work 
its way out of the gene pool. Even slight pertrubations are going 
to radically skew the results, effectively propogating the gene 
forever. There doesn't even have to be any clear co-dependant
advantages for this effect to happen. 
  All of the other doubts and possibilities, which you and Andrew 
point out are just so much more fodder for sinking the argument of
"wouldn't it be weeded out of the gene pool." Taint necessarily
so.

-- 

		Michael Thomas	(mike@gordian.com)
	"I don't think Bambi Eyes will get you that flame thrower..."  
		-- Hobbes to Calvin
		USnail: 20361 Irvine Ave Santa Ana Heights, Ca,	92707-5637
		PaBell: (714) 850-0205 (714) 850-0533 (fax)
From: dh0a@ns1.cc.lehigh.edu (DONALD L. HARDY)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Request for repost of "How to..."
Date: 16 Dec 92 14:26:21 GMT
Organization: Lehigh University

Could someone post the "How to tell if your son is gay."

I have the lesbian version, but would like the male version.  Thanks!

D.
-- 

******************************************************************************

Donald L. Hardy                                    Office of Physical Planning
Project Planner                                    Lehigh University
dh0a@lehigh.edu                                    (215) 758 5110
Newsgroups: soc.motss,alt.politics.homosexuality
From: spencer@der.Princeton.EDU (S. Spencer Sun)
Subject: Re: The word 'homophobia'
Originator: news@nimaster
Reply-To: spencer@phoenix.princeton.edu (S. Spencer Sun)
Organization: Live Organ Transplants
Date: Thu, 17 Dec 1992 03:08:34 GMT

In article <thecabalisdead@thecabalisdead.thecabalisdead>, mattm@apple.com (Matthew Melmon) writes:
>In article <1992Dec16.140618.13097@bsu-ucs>, 00daspeakman@leo.bsuvc.bsu.edu
>(David Speakman, Ball State University) wrote:
>
>That phobias are 'irrational' is bullshit.  Many are firmly
>rooted in a profound sense of avoiding pain.  Fear of heights
>is rational.  Fear of snakes is rational.  Fear of huge poisonous
>spiders is rational.  Fear of drowning is rational.  Many
>of these can be taken to ridiculous extremes, but the fear is
>often based on a credible danger (i.e. *death*).  

However, in phobias, there is still an element of irrationality.  A
general fear of heights is rational, yes, but if you're standing on the
40th floor of a skyscraper, inside the building, it's a bit irrational
to be afraid of simply BEING on the 40th floor (assuming the building
isn't shabbily built, etc., but those are irrational, paranoid worries
for the most part).

Does taking things "to ridiculous extremes" sound rational to you?
Can't something be firmly rooted in an irrational belief?  And why are
we quibbling about something which amounts to just playing with
definitions?

-----
sss/PU'94 Dept of CS (spencer@phoenix.princeton.edu)/JvNCnet (spencer@jvnc.net)
"No, just _a_ Zaphod Beeblebrox.  Haven't you heard I come in six packs?"

Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: henry@ADS.COM (Henry Mensch)
Subject: Re: New DPN
Organization: Advanced Decision Systems; a div of Booz, Allen & Hamilton
Date: Thu, 17 Dec 1992 07:05:50 GMT

mattm@apple.com (Matthew Melmon) wrote: 
->In article <smith_bob_e-151292134004@loc100-mtalk3.atalk.tandem.com>,
->smith_bob_e@tandem.com (Mod Bob) wrote:
->
->> If you're into gorgeous, muscled, Blond Bubble Butt Surf Boys 
->> (John, Kyle, Beau, Brian, Tim and the rest), I can _heartily_ recommend 
->> the Boogie Boarding Lesson.  *sigh*  ;-)
->
->I find this constant repetition of the blond, bubble butt surf
->boys motif to be, quite frankly, tedious.  You are perpetuating
->the false stereotype that all homosexuals are interested in is
->having as much sex, as possible, with blond, bubble butt surf
->boys.

actually, they're doing nothing of the sort.  they're only promoting
their own ("they," in this case, is the gaggle of editors: cranky,
sleazy, and biffy ... or something) preferences.

--
# henry mensch / booz, allen & hamilton, inc.  / <henry@ads.com>
# "fight the real enemy."  -- sinead o'connor, and many others.
#     for information on the league for programming freedom, 
#                     write to lpf@uunet.uu.net
From: Minotaur@cup.portal.com (A Frank Swilling)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: Call/Fax/Write Fernandez
Date: Wed, 16 Dec 92 22:47:24 PST
Organization: The Portal System (TM)
  <1gnib9INN1hs@hp-col.col.hp.com>

Walter Smith sez:

>If nothing
>else, maybe it's given me a better feel for how gay people feel when
>they are called "child molester" by a complete stranger.

>Walter
>smithw@cs.itc.hp.com

Yes, it is so much nicer to be called child molesters by our
friends; it makes us feel so warm and tingly inside.

Frank
Minotaur@cup.portal.com
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: "paul bobbitt" <paul.bobbitt@canrem.com>
Subject: cobalt musings 2
Reply-To: "paul bobbitt" <paul.bobbitt@canrem.com>
Organization: Canada Remote Systems
Distribution: soc
Date: 15 Dec 92 18:50:28 EST

Brian Jarvis writes:
BJ>In article <1992Dec10.4342.66921@dosgate> "paul bobbitt" <paul.bobbitt@canrem.com> writes:
  >>Continued from the previous message...
  >>
  >>  >ordinarily they're complete grumps in the morning, even the
  >>  >late morning, which rubs me considerably the wrong way.  I'm
  >>  >not too keen on crabby folks at any time of day.
  >>
  >>                My mom's been known to throw things at me when I come
  >>upstairs and greet her with a bright, chipper "Good Morning!"

BJ>I'm with your mother on this one.  More than one roomie in the past has
  >been threated with a painful death when they dared to disturb me before
  >11 AM, particularly when they insist on looking so damned happy when they
  >do it.

It would appear that night people are a good deal more irritable in 
the morning than morning people are at night.  All I do is get sleepy 
and unresponsive when kept up past my bedtime.  I don't issue death 
threats... although that might just be effective.  <grin>

               Paul

 * 1st 1.02b #897 * paul.bobbitt@canrem.com  GEnie: P.BOBBITT  (1:229/15)  ->CRS
--
Canada Remote Systems  - Toronto, Ontario
World's Largest PCBOARD System - 416-629-7000/629-7044
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: rcrice@cbnewsb.cb.att.com (roger.w.crice)
Subject: Re: Key West Accomodation and Attractions ??
Organization: AT&T
Date: Tue, 15 Dec 1992 20:50:43 GMT

In article <15DEC92.16494824@enh.nist.gov> aberson@enh.nist.gov writes:
>In a previous article, sys0002@dircon.co.uk (Julian Hayward) wrote:
>> 
>>I'll be visiting Key West in late February and I am looking 
>>for any suggestions on good places to stay and to visit.
>
>Call the Key West Business Guild at 800-535-7797 (I assume one can call
>such a number from the UK)...

Unlikely.  In order for someone in a foreign market to call
toll-free to a domestic business, that business would need
to purchase an international toll-free number from a long-
distance carrier in the foreign market, and that number
would have to conform to the local numbering plan.  It
happens that in the UK, toll-free numbers begin with 0-800,
but it is unlikely that 1) the KWBG purchased such a number,
and 2) that, if it did, it would match the domestic number.

Roger Crice
AT&T Network Services Division
Cincinnati, Ohio

p.s.  My husband and I had a nice stay at the Oasis guest
house a couple of years ago.  It was clean and tranquil, and
noone seemed to mind if a guest occasionaly "forgot" to get
dressed.  We recently received a letter from the owner that
he has acquired adjacent properties.  
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: thaaang@cwis.unomaha.edu (John Dorrance)
Subject: Re: soc.motss.*
Organization: University of Nebraska at Omaha
Date: Sat, 19 Dec 1992 02:23:21 GMT

If we must divide soc.motss (though I really don't understand why;
it'd just mean 4 groups to read instead of one, and the 4 combined
would probably add up to more posts to read/compose than soc.motss
along), I like Mr. Shaumeyer's suggestion, only I think the names
of the groups should be

soc.motss.salmon
soc.motss.mauve
soc.motss.dusty.rose
soc.motss.vermillion

or something like that. Red, orange, blue, and green are for crayons.

--
thaaang@cwis.unomaha.edu * John Dorrance * Disco Diva y Flamenco Chico

      You're like one of those... 'Cabbage Patch' creatures...
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: TMCCART3@ua1vm.ua.edu (Tracey McCartney)
Subject: This is just a test
Organization: Home of the @&#^%$* Crimson Tide
Date: Thu, 17 Dec 1992 07:20:45 GMT

Hey! Put those flame-throwers away! I said this was just a TEST, dammit!
: )
 
Tracey
From: richard@Apple.COM (a flying squirrel)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: Devil CD's
Date: 20 Dec 92 01:52:33 GMT
Organization: Xiola Blue

Furr:

>[I would love to find a danceclub DJ with the balls to mix
>from Molly Hatchet to Madonna to ZZ to Animotion to RTZ, or
>the like.... Chances of finding such a person/place? 0%.]

Bzzzzzzt.  Shoulda visited Club Uranus more often (when it still
existed).  I danced to "Back in Black" and "Whole Lotta Love" there,
as well as "Fame".

Come to think of it, you would have had quite a drive home afterwards,
George.  ;^)
-- 
a flying squirrel is: richard@apple.com  Apple Computer Inc.

"Sex is a filter, and it admits a certain vision."  - William S. Burroughs
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: buckmr@vccsouth15.its.rpi.edu (Ron Buckmire)
Subject: Re: Gay Rights Ordinance for ARLINGTON COUNTY, MARYLAND?
Date: Fri, 11 Dec 1992 23:04:39 GMT

sbgreene@phoenix.Princeton.EDU (Steven Greene) writes:

>In article <xbf2!4g@rpi.edu> buckmr@vccsouth30.its.rpi.edu (Ron Buckmire) writes:
>>
>>I read in the NEW YORK NATIVE [and this is why I'm asking for confirmation]
>>that the Arlington County Board in Maryland voted to include sexual orientation
>>in its civil rights ordinance.
>>
>>Anyone live around there and can confirm this?

>No, no one lives there.  Arlington is in Virginia, and don't you forget it. :-)

>(And, yes, they did recently pass such an ordinance.)

ooops! :-) Arlinton County, VIRGINIA! Are there any other ordinances in VIRGINIA
and when exactly did this ordinance pass?

I don't suppose there are ordinances in WEST VIRGINIA? I have been reading
Neil Miller's IN SEARCH OF GAY AMERICA and find it fascinating [and 
disheartening, in the beginning].

-- 
RON BUCKMIRE, 11 Colvin Circle, Troy, NY 12180-3735. ***Clinton-Gore 92!***
uunet!rpi.edu!buckmr||buckmr@rpitsmts.bitnet||buckmr@rpi.edu||+1 518 276 8910
"The difference between leadership and government is that leadership has a
soul." -- Anna Quindlen, on George Bush, in the May 6, 1992 _New York Times_
Xref: sparky soc.motss:53195 soc.bi:16953
From: tdbear@dvorak.amd.com (Thomas D. Barrett)
Newsgroups: soc.motss,soc.bi
Subject: Re: The phrase "gay rights"
Date: 20 Dec 92 21:49:26 GMT
Organization: Advanced Micro Devices, Inc.; Austin, Texas

In article <1h06ibINNm5i@plts.uucp> tal@plts.uucp (Tom Limoncelli) writes:
>
>I've done some political work, and I've found that the phrase "gay
>rights laws" scares many people.  However, when your substitute the
>phrase, "anti-discrimination laws for gays" (which is really what the
>National Gay Rights Bill is about) people think it's a pretty good
>idea.

Actually, to borrow from a similar thread on the fidonet, it is better
to say "equal rights for gays and lesbians" since this totally defuses
the "special rights" argument.  Afterall, it *is* what we are after...
right?  Equal rights for all regardless of anything... well, most
anything :)

Tom

-- 
| Tom Barrett (TDBear), Sr. Engineer | tom.barrett@amd.com
| AMD PCD / Austin, TX  78741        | v:512-462-6856 / f:512-462-5155
| "No is yes, And we're all free"    | CO made a #2 no-no... PU!
| My views may not be shared by the organization of origin
From: kkenny@gems.vcu.edu (Karen Kenny aka Mel)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Ditch your car and bike!
Date: 16 Dec 92 08:56:50 -0400
Distribution: usa
Organization: Medical College of Virginia

In article <1992Dec14.021452.10199@nwnexus.WA.COM>, allyn@halcyon.com (mark allyn) writes:
> I have a very good solution to parking.
> 
> Get rid of your car and get a bicycle.
> 

I second this solution, if your housing situation
and work hours permit some means of safety before/during/
after your ride.  Unfortunately, some of my 4+ mile
ride to/from MCV takes me through unsafe neighborhoods,
and with it being dark by 5pm now, biking is no longer
an option for a couple of months.  

What I miss most is the smells emanating from the Wonder
surplus store that last about 2 blocks.

17 miles each way, Mark?  Wow!  You must have _faaaabulous_
legs (think of Harvey F. saying that...I adore that man and his
voice)!!!  

Karen, who appreciates nice legs regardless of the gender
       of the owners
+======================================================+
                                         Karen S. Kenny
"Of course, you silly things!"      kkenny@gems.vcu.edu
                                  Medical College of VA                      
                                           Richmond, VA
+======================================================+
From: scott@bbx.basis.com (Scott Amspoker)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: Call/Fax/Write Fernandez
Date: 18 Dec 92 18:52:56 GMT
Organization: BASIS International, Ltd., Albuquerque NM USA

In article <44019@zygot.ati.com> john@zygot.ati.com (John Higdon) writes:
>[church looking for scapegoats...]
>                                                     ...Left-handed people
>could easily be used ("left-handedness is not 'natural' since most
>people are right-handed"), but it is hard to stir people up over
>something so innocuous.

Actually, left-handedness has been attacked in the past as an improper
or immoral condition.  In fact, the word "sinister" originally referred
to left-handedness.  It wasn't that long ago when left-handed children
were forced to use their right hand in schools and at home in spite
of the fact that this was very unnatural and uncomfortable for them.
This is not unlike the way gay children are treated today and
equally absurd IMHO.

-- 
Scott Amspoker                       |    
Basis International, Albuquerque, NM |  Too bad ignorance isn't really
                                     |  bliss.  Then it could be outlawed.
scott@bbx.basis.com                  |
From: scott@bbx.basis.com (Scott Amspoker)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: Cramer's game.
Date: 16 Dec 92 18:43:14 GMT
Article-I.D.: bbx.146
Organization: BASIS International, Ltd., Albuquerque NM USA

In article <1992Dec16.042130.12483@godel.questor.wimsey.bc.ca> aberno@godel.questor.wimsey.bc.ca writes:
>[...]
>Look, admit it. Cramer is a pretty good debater. If I knew nothing at all  
>about homosexuality, I would consider him to be utterly trouncing his  
>opponents here in soc.motss. His arguments are clean, fairly consistent,  
>and backed up with hard data.

    "Not only are homosexuals liars, but they are also ignorant".

    "All fixated pedophiles are homosexual in orientation"

    "Only a homosexual would say ....."

Do statements like these sound like a reasonable debate of an informed
person?  Clayton's remarks are all too frequently over generalized and
mean spirited.  If I knew nothing at all about homosexuality I would
still know bullshit and desparation when I read it.

>The opposition he has faced here is pretty  
>lame compared to the organization and force of his pet theories.

The only "order" and consistent message of his posts is that he
does not like homosexual people.  The notion that homosexual people
are bad is not his conclusion, it is his axiom.  There's a big
difference.

>However, we all *know* that his overall view of homosexuality is wrong. We  
>know it because we *live* the lives that he only theorizes about. We  
>*know* that our sexuality is not a "disorder". We *know* that we don't go  
>around molesting children. We understand our own motivations, emotions,  
>and experiences, which he cannot even imagine, let alone fit into his  
>tidy, logical libertarian philosophy.

He thinks we're all *lying* about our feelings and experiences.  We
are all supposedly conspiring in a huge propaganda campaign to fool 
the rest of the world into believing that we are decent human beings.  
Nothing *we* say can be accepted as truth.

>Doesn't it suggest that perhaps logically-based arguments alone are an  
>inadequate means of uncovering truth? Doesn't it suggest that we should  
>all stop playing his classically Libertarian game of coming to nonsensical  
>conclusions through the systematic application of "reason"? 

Bingo.  I've said that before in various posts.  I don't intend to reason
with the 'phobes.  I merely intend to get them out of my way.

-- 
Scott Amspoker                       |    
Basis International, Albuquerque, NM |  Too bad ignorance isn't really
                                     |  bliss.  Then it could be outlawed.
scott@bbx.basis.com                  |
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: ry@cbnewsl.cb.att.com (ryerson.schwark)
Subject: Re: Jack Carroll lives!
Organization: UNIX System Laboratories, Summit, NJ
Date: Tue, 15 Dec 1992 20:35:34 GMT

In article <92349.214909SECBH@CUNYVM.BITNET> <SECBH@CUNYVM.BITNET> writes:
>>so I immediately took advantage
>>of the situation to squeeze all his darkest secrets out of him.  Thirty
>>seconds later, we moved on to more interesting topics,
>>like dishing all the soc.motss crowd.
>
>"darkest secrets" (snort).  Both of which I have embroidered upon here
>at tedious length.  You listen: I talk.

Ok, so they were maybe this sort of tawdry biege with some soft earthy
undertones, so I embellished a little bit, so sue me.
>
>Seems a rather peculiar phrase for what I usually think of as arranging
>verbal bouquets.  More forbearance and charity, if you please, Mr.
>Schwark.

Forbearance? Charity? Me? Heaven save me from such a plight!
>
>
>And what Mr. Schwark doesn't know is that the reason that I am propped
>up here at home is because I got involved circa midnight last
>night in the middle of a volcanic scene resulting from the fact that
>patients unnamed were blasting themselves into fits of psychotic
>abusiveness by boosting the hospital dope with their own supply.  In
>three stays at our version of St. Elsewheres each time I have been sucked
>into some high drama fury with a drug addicted patient.

Why is it that you get to have all the fun when visiting a hospital, and
I get stuck fetching water? pout.

Ry
ry@usl.com
From: adolphso@mizar.usc.edu (adolphson)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: source of the word 'faggot' (was: Hey Edgar!)
Date: 17 Dec 1992 12:46:14 -0800
Organization: University of Southern California, Los Angeles, CA
NNTP-Posting-Host: mizar.usc.edu
Summary: Grrrrrrrr

In article <1992Dec17.192331.25567@ucsu.Colorado.EDU> 
mudge@ucsu.Colorado.EDU (MUDGE BRIAN WAYNE) writes
about the origin of the word "faggot" to mean "male
homosexual":

>   A far grimer possibility arises from the old punishment for 
> homosexuality, burning at the stake.  Hence homosexuals were fit for
> burning, therefore faggots.

Grrrrrrrrrrrrrr.  The old punishment for homosexuality in
England and English-speaking North America was hanging
and/or drawing and quartering, not burning at the stake.
That "sodomites" were often burned at the stake in, say,
Renaissance Venice, really makes no difference as to the
use of the word "faggot" to mean "homosexual men".  The
word meant a bundle of sticks originally, then came to
be applied to heretics.  Later, the word was applied to
dissolute women.  Then, probably at the turn of our
century, to homosexual men.

Grrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr.

Arne
From: adolphso@mizar.usc.edu (adolphson)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: That dead horse
Date: 11 Dec 1992 13:07:28 -0800
Organization: University of Southern California, Los Angeles, CA
NNTP-Posting-Host: mizar.usc.edu

In article <Bz44AE.3xq@ecf.toronto.edu> 
ambidge@ecf.toronto.edu (Chris Ambidge) writes:
> In article <1gaqnkINNprj@mizar.usc.edu> 
> adolphso@mizar.usc.edu (adolphson) writes:

> >that has so permanently damaged public discourse and
> >intellectual life in 20th century America as has the
> >consistent demonization of leftists, from the J. Edgar
> >Hoover-led hysteria in the 1910s to.....
>
> JEdgar Hoover was alive and leading public hysteria in the
> 1910's?

J. Edgar Hoover's dates are 1895-1972.  Now that I think
about it, the roundups and deportations of Reds that he
instigated, led, publicized, made his name with, might 
have happened after 1920, but not by much. 

Arne


Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: tdbear@dvorak.amd.com (Thomas D. Barrett)
Subject: Re: Aladdin (was Re: Jason and the Argonauts)
Organization: Advanced Micro Devices, Inc.; Austin, Texas
Date: Mon, 14 Dec 92 23:52:01 GMT

>
>"I am getting pretty fond of you, kid.... *Not* that I am ready to 
>pick-out curtains or anything, you know" 
>                  -the Blue Genie to Aladdin

I definitely caught this one the first time AND the second time.  It
wasn't IMHO anything worse than Men on Films type humor... it was 
a little stereotypical, but was not otherwise attacking.  I wouldn't
think that it would be negative to a g/l youth.

As a side point... I hate to admit it, but I am absolutely in love
with Aladdin... can't decide if it is the singer or the voice-over
guy or even the animation guy... 

Tom


-- 
| Tom Barrett (TDBear), Sr. Engineer | tom.barrett@amd.com
| AMD PCD / Austin, TX  78741        | v:512-462-6856 / f:512-462-5155
| "No is Yes, and We are All FREE!"  | 
| My views may not be shared by the organization or origin
Newsgroups: soc.motss,soc.bi
From: mara@panix.com (Mara Chibnik)
Subject: Re: NOTICE - Details of the March on Washington
Date: Sun, 13 Dec 1992 12:45:04 GMT
Organization: (getting there)


In <=_h2#_r@rpi.edu> buckmr@vccnw06.its.rpi.edu (Ron Buckmire) writes:
 >I'm SHOCKED, Mara! You want to DISCRIMINATE against bigots? :-)

Gee, Ron, you always find such an, um, _uncomfortable_  way of
phrasing things.  Do you have to be so blunt? Can't you find a 
more _polite_ way of phrasing it?



-- 

  Mara Chibnik
  mara@panix.com                Life is too important to be taken seriously.

Newsgroups: soc.motss