HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: btree!andy@UCSD.EDU (Andy Bosik)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: SIGvsCOLT
Date: 9 Apr 92 23:30:55 GMT
Organization: Brooktree Corporation

This is in reference to Jordan Marc Kossack's query as to which 
.45 is prefered by netters who have used these pistols.

I have shot both guns I feel each one has it's pros, and cons.

The COLT GOLD CUP that I own is very accurate, and has an excellent
short single acction trigger pull. It came with some standard 
mods. I however feel that at least for me, the Colt is awful
finicky about what kind of ammo it uses, and magazes must be
in perfect condition or feeding problems occur.Also the stock
thumb safety is too hard to manipulate in my opinion. I ended up
having alot of pistolsmithing done to get it to be more to my liking.
Such as beavertail, throat and ramp, comp, fitted,extended thumb safety,
comander hammer,etc. After all that, and over $100.00 total investment,
I would say that it is now my favorite handgun, and definately my
choice for home defense and competition.

The SIG on the otherhand, is in my opion, less finicky with ammo,
and less lkely to jam, when comparing stock guns.However it's a
double action. I guess shooting the COLT single action has gotten
me spoiled because the significantly longer trigger pull of the SIG
is not my cup of tea. I could see why cops tend to use DA guns to
avoid lawsuits.

If I were to do it all over again;rather than spending the money
on a GOLD CUP then modifying it to taste, I would now buy a gun
that has most of what I want already for less money than a stock
GOLD CUP,such as the SAFARI ARMS MATCH MASTER or similar guns.




"I want Your shoes, Your clothes, and Your motorcyle."
                                    -Arnold in T2
From: george@cs.purdue.edu (Michael J. George)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: Glock 21
Date: 16 Apr 92 17:55:52 GMT
Organization: Department of Computer Science, Purdue University


In article <53305@mimsy.umd.edu>, sybok@m4-035-2.MIT.EDU (The Terminator) writes:
# The Springfield Armory 1911 is the greatest autoloading pistol ever created,
# and the 45ACP cartridge is the greatest load. Not only is the stock SA1911 the
# base gun for professional shooters across the country, it also has the
# widest availability of parts and accessories.  The Glock looks like a toy gun
# made from cheap plastic, while the 1911's handsome appearance is legendary.

The 1911 has been out for some 80 years now, so I think it would make sense
that they are more popular and have more parts available.  The Glock may look
like a toy gun, but I believe it has shown that you can judge it by appear-
ances.  It is a fine firearm.

You are of course entitled to your opinion, and I am sure that SA's model 1911
is one of the best (I have no experience with it, so I am assuming you are cor-
rect).  However, just because you think that the SA is the greated gun in the
world and the .45 is the best cartridge, doesn't make it so.
-- 
Michael George
george@cs.purdue.edu
From: forda@gtephx.UUCP (Andrew Ford @ AGCS, Phoenix, Arizona)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: .357 145 gr. Sivertip
Date: 7 Apr 92 13:04:35 GMT
Organization: gte

In article <52511@mimsy.umd.edu>, baechler@lia.di.epfl.ch (Emmanuel Baechler) writes:
# In article <52484@mimsy.umd.edu>, sybok@athena.mit.edu (The Terminator) writes:
# |> In article <52442@mimsy.umd.edu> baechler@lia.di.epfl.ch (Emmanuel Baechler) writes:
# |> #
# |> #Unhappily for us, the .357 magnum 125 grains JHP are not imported
# |> #at all in Switzerland. Our best .357 is the 145 grains Sivertip.
# |> #Does anybody know how it is rated in the Evans Marshall Statistics?
# |> #How are they related with the 158 grains JSP (the other type of .357
# |> #that we get)?
# |> 
# |> Do you mean you've looked hard for them and can't find any, or that 
# |> there's a law against importing that particular load?
# 
# I have looked hard and couldn't find them. There is no law against their
# impotation, Unhappily, all the ammunitions are imported in Switzerland by
# a single company and, if it doesn't believe that they can make money with
# a given sort of ammunition, you can't do anything. The administrative 
# requirements to create a new importation company are so big, compared to
# the size of the Swiss market that no one did it yet. 
# 
# _ You need a financial reserve of several hundreds of thousand swiss franks.
# 
# - Ammunition is imported by "units" of 100'000 rounds
# 
# - You need a special storage area with very stric security requirements
# 
# - Finally, the federal administration may or may not agree to import a
#   given brand of ammunition.
# 
Are you allowed to re-load your own bullets?

Do they place the same restrictions on bullets (only) as they do on
live rounds?

-- 
It's a wonderful feeling when you voted for the winner, but the time to vote for
the guy who "could win" is past: vote your conscience - Marrou/Lord in 92!
Andrew Ford INTERNET: gtephx!forda@asuvax.eas.asu.edu
            UUCP: !uunet!samsung!romed!asuvax!gtephx!forda
From: chan@seattleu.edu (Anthony K.B. Chan)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Browning BDM
Date: 13 Apr 92 17:34:04 GMT
Organization: Seattle University, Seattle WA

Is the Browning BDM as good as Browning's own Hi-power mark III ?

Thanks,

Anthony Chan
Seattle University
Computer Information & Services
Internet address : chan@sumax.seattleu.edu
From: rrw@philabs.philips.com (Roger White)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: Small Arms reference book on sale
Date: 9 Apr 92 23:31:02 GMT
Organization: Philips Laboratories, Briarcliff Manor, NY.

I'll second Henry on this one.  For 17 bucks you can't go wrong with "Small
Arms of the World," especially if you're interested in military stuff.

There's also been ads in Shotgun News and elsewhere for another book which I
guess is a "classic".  It's a reprint of "Sixguns" by Elmer Keith (you must
have heard of him, right?).  It's quite an interesting book and the reprinter
(if there is such a word) did a good job.  I don't have the information with
me now but it's something like $30-40.  If anyone is interested I'll be glad
to post details - if I can find them.  Perhaps someone has a S.N. or Gun List
handy and can beat me to it.

Take care,

Rog
From: emba-news.uvm.edu!bashiti@kira.UVM.EDU (Abbas J Bashiti)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: Mini 14
Date: 10 Apr 92 18:20:13 GMT
Organization: University of Vermont -- Division of EMBA Computer Facility

#From article <52917@mimsy.umd.edu>, by cvacura@uswat.uswest.com (Craig Vacura):
# Woe is me.  
# 
# I've got a SS Mini 14 that I like in every way.  There's just one little 
# thing, I can't get it to shoot straight.  At least not with the economy 55 
# gr. ammo.  Where can I get SS109?  Do any of the econo brands use a 
# heavier grained bullet?
# 
     Most SS109 that I have seen is surplus.  The stuff I had at one time
was IVI Canadian Surplus.  It was really very good ammo, and gave decent
results out to 600 yards if there wasn't too much wind.  There is also
some Portugese stuff out there, but I haven't heard good things about
accuracy from that ammo.  IMI in Israel also sells SS109 commercially.
You could also try Federal match ammo with the Sierra 69gr. BTHP.  All
of these could help some.

# Can Mini 14s be accurized in any way?  Can anything be done about the 
# trigger?
# 
     I've seen ads in SGN for somebody who will rebarrel your mini with
a heavy match barrel.  I've never seen one of these in action, but it
probably couldn't hurt things any.  You could also look into 'glass
bedding the rifle.  That should help groups a little.
     On a similar note, a friend of mine just bought a Mini-30 which
came with an aftermarket folding stock.  This thing was TIGHT.  We really
had to pry the action out of the stock.  I should think that might be
one way to help accuracy if you didn't want to bed your mini.  Those
folding stocks are awfully uncomfortable to shoot with though, so you
could end up loosing any gains you make.
     Any decent gunsmith should be able to smooth up the trigger a little.
You probably don't want to go below 4 lbs., just for safety's sake
with a semi-auto.

later,
AJ
From: pfeiffer@NMSU.Edu
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: Hearing Protectors - HELP
Date: 13 Apr 92 17:33:56 GMT

gwyn@smoke.brl.mil (Doug Gwyn) writes:

   In article <53005@mimsy.umd.edu> skrone@cbnewsb.cb.att.com (stuart.krone) writes:
   ##  What is the minimum (in dB) rating one should have for say pistol shooting
   ##with .22,.357,.45 under an iron roof outdoors ?  Comments ?
   #Ask an ENT. (Ear Nose Throat specialist). They could probably help with
   #custom (pour in ) ear plugs but I'd go for Silencios first.

   Note that "dB" noise reduction ratings are generally for CONTINUOUS
   sound, and the reduct of IMPACT noise may be significantly less.
   Sonic Ear Valves are an example of a design that attempts to reduce
   impact noise more than continuous noise, although I have heard that
   they are not adequate for protection from gunshot noise.  Electronic
   hearing protectors often provide an alternative implementation of
   this notion, some even amplifying continuous low-level noise to aid
   hunters etc.

While this is true, my experience with Sonic II ear protectors was not
good.  I don't like muffs (I tend to hit my shotgun stock with them --
I've been told this means the gun doesn't fit; while this may well be
true, I can't afford to change right now) and got tired of people
shouting at me with my E.A.R.s in, so I tried the Sonics.  Using my
subjective ``if it sets off my tinnitis too much noise is getting
through'' test, the Sonics flunked.

There's something wrong when the ear protection that works best for me
is the cheapest thing on the market!

-Joe.
From: n9020351@henson.cc.wwu.edu (James Douglas Del Vecchio)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: Glock 21
Date: 17 Apr 92 01:50:53 GMT
Organization: Western Washington University

tighe@convex.COM (Mike Tighe) writes:

#messina@netcom.com (Tony Porczyk) writes:
##n9020351@henson.cc.wwu.edu (James Douglas Del Vecchio) writes:
###dickwin@sequent.com (Dick Winningstad) writes:
###> Anybody used a Glock 21?  I'm thinking of buying one, but would like
###> to hear from happy or sad users first.
#<positive comments on Glock 21 deleted>
##I agree with every word here.  I was prejudiced against .45 after shooting
##Springfield which handled like a piece of junk, unbalanced and throwing
##bullets at whichever direction.  I tried Glock 21 just to make sure I didn't
##ever want to buy a .45, and I fell in love with that gun.  It is sweeet!
##You have to shoot it to appreciate it, though - looks are not its strong
##point :-)

#Ditto, except substitute "AMT Hardballer" for "Springfield", in the above
#paragraph. BTW, I sold my AMT with 3 days of buying my Glock 21.

     I'm starting to feel that the $280 I spent on a Astra .45 ACP maybe
would have been better spent toward a Glock 21.    I spent that money
on a blue A-90 because I thought they were going out of style and it
was my last chance.  Today I get a flyer showing lots of .45 ACP A-100s
in electroless nickel plate version for $265.   I can't believe it.
Don't you hate it when that happens?

     Now I have to either sit and stew on the good deal I never got,
or do something crazy like buy an additional Astra .45.   At that
point Susan will murder me, plus I will be deep in bankruptcy territory,
so I might as well just get myself the Glock 21 besides.  8-)

Jim Del Vecchio

BTW, I heard that the 21s will be unattainable for the next year
to sate a 50,000 gun order for the FBI.    One more reason.
From: ness@tc.fluke.COM (Jerry Ness)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: T/C Contender
Date: 9 Apr 92 14:04:57 GMT
Organization: John Fluke Mfg. Co., Inc., Everett, WA

The 45-70 is not 'too much' gun for deer!!
Even with a 405 grain bullet, it doesn't have the energy that you get out of
the 30-30 with a 150 grain bullet. 

I'm talkin' about store bought ammo. The 45-70 factory ammo has to be
loaded down because of the type of rifles that are chambered for it.
My new Lyman cast bullet handbook has 3 seperate sets of loading data
for the 45-70. The lightest loads are for the 'trap door' Springfield.
The medium loads are for the '86 Winchester and the heaviest loads listed
are for the Ruger no. 1 and 3. 

I agree with Jim Lentz about getting the longer barrel. This is a rifle
cartridge. 
Jerry
-- 
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Jerry Ness             John Fluke Mfg. Co., Inc.        Everett, Washington USA
            domain:    ness@tc.fluke.COM   
            uucp:      {sun,microsoft,uw-beaver}!fluke!ness
From: tarl@lectroid.sw.stratus.com (Tarl Neustaedter)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: PEN GUN
Date: 13 Apr 92 02:22:19 GMT
Organization: Stratus Computer, Inc.


In article <53056@mimsy.umd.edu>, sybok@athena.mit.edu (The Terminator) writes:
# [pen gun]
# A handgun is not an NFA "any other weapon," so how is handgun defined so
# it doesn't include pen guns?

Gun Control Act of 1968 (Public Law 90-618), Title II, chapter 53,
section 5845 (definitions), paragraph (e):

  "(e) Any Other Weapon - The term "any other weapon" means any weapon
  capable of being concealed on the person from which a shot can be
  discharged through the energy of an explosive, a pistol or revolver
  having a barrel with a smooth bore designed or redesigned to fire a
  fixed shotgun shell, weapons with combination shotgun and rifle barrel
  12 inches or more less than 18 inches in length, from which only a
  single discharge can be made from either barrel without manual reloading,
  and shall include any such weapon which may be readily restored to fire.
  Such term shall not include a pistol or a revolver having a rifled bore,
  or rifled bores, or weapons designed made, or intended to be fired from
  the shoulder and not capable of firing fixed ammunition".

And, Title 27, part 179, subpart B, section 11 (meaning of terms), about
the 30th term:

  Pistol - A weapon originally designed, made, and intended to fire a
  projectile (bullet) from one or more barrels when held in one hand and
  having:
    a) a chamber(s) as an integral part(s) of, or permanently aligned
       with, the bore(s); and
    b) a short stock designed to be gripped by one hand and at an angle
       to and extending below the line of the bore(s).

But the important issue isn't what the law says. Unless you are someone
prepared to go to court and spend lots of dollars staying out of jail,
you *ASK* the BATF what they think. Even if you do have lots of money
and can afford to spend it on lawyers, you still ask them before you do
something on the edges of the law. If you have a disagreement with them,
you take them to court BEFORE you potentially break the law. Or you still
go to jail.
-- 
         Tarl Neustaedter	tarl@sw.stratus.com
         Marlboro, Mass.	Stratus Computer
Disclaimer: My employer is not responsible for my opinions.
From: smpod@ariel.lerc.nasa.gov (Stefan)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re:Finnish rifle rewiew
Date: 7 Apr 92 22:30:51 GMT
Organization: who knows

alanko@ruuvi.me.tut.fi (Risto Alanko) writes...
##smpod@ariel.lerc.nasa.gov (Stefan) writes:
##Do you reload for the Finnish MN?  I was wondering if the Finns use the
##same diameter bullet for M28/30 as they do for the other models?
# 
#The old Russian barrel dimensions are different from all other 
#".30" -caliber barrels that use 7.83 mm bullets. Only the m/91-24 version 
#of the Civil Guard had the .30-cal. barrel (made in Switzerland) and 
#gave reasonable groups with the thin bullet.

Is the m/91-24 the same as the M24?

#Nominally the bullets were .311-caliber. In Finland, most shooters use
#7.85 mm or 7.87 mm bullets in all Mosin-Nagants, also in m/91-24. Though, 
#many of these old warhorses have been rebarreled with "american bore" .30 
#barrels (yuck !!). 
# 
#These thicker bullet are still available here. The old famous Lapua D 46 
#FMJ BT match bullet is available in several diameters, but a bit expensive. 

The d46 bullets costs $16.75/100.

#The latest trick for match reloading is to use the "assault rifle" bullet.
#Originally made for 7.63x39 (Russian AK 47 and Finnish M 60 assault 
#rifles), new light 7.92 mm spitzer bullet has given match accurracy with 
                    ^^^^
#faster powders. 

Is this an error ? Should it be 7.62?

##Do they use the issue sights on the M28/30 or some diopter sigths?
# 
#Most Army matches are with issue sights. There are some "military biathlon" 
#versions with diopter sights, though.

Are these diopter sights of the type where the rifle needs to be drilled and 
tapped?
From: spacelab@milton.u.washington.edu (scott west)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: Advice on Polar Bear protection requested (no kidding!!!)
Date: 9 Apr 92 23:31:12 GMT
Organization: SpaceLabs, Inc., Redmond, WA

In article <52711@mimsy.umd.edu> larrigan@eeserv.ee.umanitoba.ca (John Larrigan) writes:
#spacelab@milton.u.washington.edu (Jessie Chang) writes:
#
#
##	If your going through, via ground, Canada, your going to have a problem 
##with the handgun but not with the Tanker...
#
#This is a very important point.  If you are in Canada you cannot carry a 
#a handgun period, concealed or in the open it does not matter.  So if your 
#trip is to Churchill, MB then you will have to concider some rifle 
#alternatives.  Which is probably a better idea anyways.  One final thing,
#some time in the future I believe all semi-auto rifles with detachable box 
#magazines will be limited to 5 rounds.  Which is annother thing to concider.
#
#John L.
The M1 is an internal mag.  The Enbloc mags come in three variety's.  2shot, 5shot ( which is used down here for hunting in most states) and the military 8shot.

Scott West    spacelab@u.washington.edu    (206)882-4003
Clinical Information System Group, SpaceLabs, Inc.
Redmond, WA
From: BCC100@psuvm.psu.edu
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Gun Laws
Date: 12 Apr 92 23:23:34 GMT
Organization: Penn State University

Please Help:

     I am a student in Pennsylvania and currently own a Ruger GP100 .357
magnum, a Remington 870 shotgun and a Marlin 336CS rifle.  I recently
accepted a job in New Jersey and have heard stories about the gun laws there.
Can anyone help me with the real story.  I would also like to know if it's
possible to get a permit to carry concealed in New Jersey.  Thank you.
                                                      B.C.

[MODERATOR:  Yes, we all are now tempted to editorialize a little, aren't
we?  But let's keep responses to this well-intentioned request for info to
factual and helpful ones, how 'bout it?]
From: bercov@bevsun.bev.lbl.gov (John Bercovitz)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: removing primer
Date: 16 Apr 92 13:12:12 GMT
Organization: Lawrence Berkeley Laboratory, California

In article <53254@mimsy.umd.edu> earlw@Apple.COM (Earl Wallace) writes:

#I did screwup once and decap a primer from a case in my RL550B but it didn't
#go off.  I rather not try my luck again :-)

    Probably enough has already been said on this subject but that never
stopped any of us, right?  8-)  Here are my experiences:

     I've decapped probably a couple hundred cases in a single stage press 
over a lifetime.  Only five or six of them have gone off (noisy buggers, 
too.)  They only went off if I got in a big hurry.  I've never had one go 
off while using the press slowly.  I don't think I'd do it in a progressive
because there're too many little parts there and the press is expensive.
Just wear ear and eye protection when you decap.  I mean real eye protection
like thick Lexan machine shop goggles.  I've had one or two primers go off 
since I adopted hearing protection when decapping and it's certainly a lot
pleasanter.

John Bercovitz     (JHBercovitz@lbl.gov)
From: togger@amarna.gsfc.nasa.gov (Jeff Barnes)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: Hearing Protectors - HELP
Date: 14 Apr 92 20:17:05 GMT
Organization: NASA Goddard Space Flight Center, Greenbelt, Md., USA

In article <53136@mimsy.umd.edu>, harrism@aquila.rtp.dg.com (Mike Harris) writes...
#In article <53005@mimsy.umd.edu>, skrone@cbnewsb.cb.att.com (stuart.krone) writes:
#|> In article <52908@mimsy.umd.edu> jeffs@austlcm.sps.mot.com (jeff stump) writes:
#|> #
#|> #   I wonder if anyone out there has found any smaller or more comfortable
#|> #hearing protectors. The headset types are comfortable except on hot/humid
#|> #days when they are terrible to wear here ( Texas from Mar-Nov ). 
#|> #Also, some rifle shooting is very uncomfortable with headsets on.
# 
#|> Ask an ENT. (Ear Nose Throat specialist). They could probably help with
#|> custom (pour in ) ear plugs but I'd go for Silencios first.
# 
#	The ENT is going to charge you a bundle. Usually at least one
#	person in a reasonable sized club will make these to pick up 
#	a few bucks here and there. I've also seen people making them
#	at gun shows. Typical charge is $20 - $25. If you want to do
#	it yourself contact "Insta Mold" company. 1-800-555-1212.
#	You'll need 8 or so people to break even.
# 
#regards,
# 
#Mike Harris - KM4UL                      harrism@dg-rtp.dg.com
#Data General Corporation                 {world}!mcnc!rti!dg-rtp!harrism
#Research Triangle Park, NC
# 

I got a pair of custom made ear plugs from a local audiologist (hearing
specialist associated with an ENT doctor) for $35. Their main advantage
to me is day long comfort. I shoot highpower competition and I also
wear muffs over the plugs but the plugs alone are good for when I'm in the pits
pulling targets or those few times I ahve to take my muffs off while
firing is going on.

********************************************************************
***	        togger@amarna.gsfc.nasa.gov                      ***
********************************************************************
From: RRUBERT@CISNCC.intel.com
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: Revolver Hammer Shrouds...
Date: 10 Apr 92 02:19:16 GMT




In article <52818@mimsy.umd.edu>, fist@iscp.Bellcore.COM (Richard Pierson) writes:
## I routinely carry 6 in my super blackhawk and in plain and
## simple terms the hammer cannot reach the firing pin unless
## the hammer block is up. 

Reply from Andrew Ford:
#OR falls out!  Not an extremely likely event, but given enough time and
#wear, everything breaks.  

#Trigger safeties were invented to prevent accidental discharge - would you 
#go wandering through the woods with a guy toting a cocked gun and depend on 
#the trigger safety if he slipped or fell?

#Same goes for the revolver.

#Safety features are no substitute for intelligent, cautious gun handling.
#Failures of safety features are very rare, but the penalty for relying
#on a safety feature which does fail can be tremendous.  Unless you are 
#going into a definite confrontation where you need all the firepower
#you can muster, I'd recommend not carrying any firearm with a round
#under the firing pin.

#(BTW, does anyone know of any automobile crash tests on hammer blocks?
#Seems to me that the forces in a 110MPH collision might just break
#something - and you'll have enough problems staying alive in that 
#situation without having a bullet rip through you or, worse yet, a 
#loved one who is with you.)


	1. If the transfer bar of a Ruger fell out the hammer still
	cannot contact the firing pin. The transfer bar must be in the 
	right place at the right time for it to fire.

	2. Good handling practice is the key. Treat every weapon as 
	loaded with a round in the chamber.

	3. Do people really hunt with empty chambers?

	4. I will let the reader work the math but I would bet a 150lb
	body at 110 mph has more energy than 125 grains at 1300 fps.
	Add this to trying to picture a flat steel surface against 
	another flat steel surface (hammer face and frame) shattering
	and I don't see the problem.

			one under the hammer (where legal of course)

				Rod Rubert