HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: hipychik@ac.dal.ca (Bass Ackwards)
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
Subject: Re: Mystery of the missing CD's !
Date: 14 Aug 92 08:41:38 -0300
Organization: Dalhousie University, Halifax, Nova Scotia, Canada

In article <1992Aug10.174550.8159@vax.oxford.ac.uk>, atmrjga@vax.oxford.ac.uk writes:
> Has anyone else thought they've bought a CD, then taken it home only to find 
> that they've got a CD case with nothing in it?
> 
> In my local stores in Oxford, this can't happen. On display are the
> empty cases. When you want to buy the CD, you take the case up to the counter,
> and an assistant puts the actual disc into it in full view of the customer.
> customer.
> However, in the big shops in London, the cases on display already contain the
> discs, and the whole package is wrapped in plastic. You buy the (hopefully)
> complete item at the counter, and then, (if you are foolish), take it 
> home before opening it up to see whether there's actually a CD inside.
> 
> I've bought around ten CD's non-locally since Christmas, and TWO of them
> have turned out to be empty cases when I've got home. The first was very
> cheap (under four pounds) and I never got round to complaining about it.
> However, the more recent one, although reduced, was still moderately
> expensive (ten pounds), and I'm not going to let them get away with it again!
> 
> Does anyone else suffer from these problems, or have I just been very unlucky?
> Have you had trouble persuading the stores they sold you an empty case?
> 
> Hrumph. Another unsatisfied customer!!
> 
>             Rupert Alison

I worked in a record store here in Halifax for nearly 3 years, and I can only
recall one occasion where a customer returned claiming a missing CD from the 
sealed jewel box (it was a multiple set of the Bruckner Choral works on DGG
I believe).
    Far more common was the complaint that "this CD won't play on my machine".
This ws particularly frustrating because the CD player we had in our store 
was a good Rotel player, and 95% of the time the customer's "unplayable"
or skipping CD would play perfectly on our machine. 
    Less common again was the mis-labeled CD; i.e. the CD label that says
Beethoven's 9th but contains music like Schubert Lieder. 

Regardless of the problem, if you purchase something from a reputable dealer,
they *should* take it back with few questions if the CD is defective (or
missing, in your case), whether you paid 2 dollars or 20 dollars for it. 
What can make it difficult are those few deceiving customers who try to 
return CD's they claim to be defective when in actual fact they really just
don't like the music and/or performance.

******************************************************************************
Darin Borgel
c/o HIPYCHIK@AC.DAL.CA
******************************************************************************
Organization: University of Maryland at Baltimore
Date: Wednesday, 12 Aug 1992 09:37:48 EST
From: Robert Haskins <RHASKINS@UMAB.BITNET>
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
Subject: Re: Acoustic/digital pianos
 <1992Aug12.013712.3280@donner.SanDiego.NCR.COM>

From: rayc@tara.SanDiego.NCR.COM (Ray Cole)
Subject: Re: Acoustic/digital pianos
Date: Wed, 12 Aug 1992 01:37:12 GMT

In the above-referenced message, Ray < Ray.Cole@SanDiego.NCR.COM > corrects
several of my misconceptions about the nature of digital pianos.  However,
when I said:

"[...] I'd recommend the digital instrument -- not necesary
to tune, nice timbre (generally), reasonable touch responsiveness, and
extreme portability (in many cases)," he responded:

"Hmm. The first point is true (not necessary to tune), and the touch
responsiveness is usually ok, but the timbre, even on the best digital
pianos is really no match for the real item and my Yamaha Clavinova is only
"extremely portable" compared to an acustic piano -- getting the thing up
the stairs to my apartment was an excersize I don't want to perform again
any time soon!"

I submit that, even given the drawbacks, the timbre of a digital piano
is more pleasing to a non-professional musician than that of a perpetually
out-of-tune upright.  I don't know about you, but most people I know
with pianos who are not serious musicians don't usually tune them very
often -- and it was in that spirit and my (perhaps mistaken) impression
that Mike's girlfriend doesn't want a career on the concert stage, or
even has plans to go to music school, that I suggested the digital was
more appropriate.  I didn't mean to imply, of course, that the timbre
could _ever_ compete with the real thing.

Bob
From: kevin@sys6626.bison.mb.ca (Kevin Scott)
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
Subject: Re: JOHN CAGE
Date: Thu, 20 Aug 92 00:44:25 CST
Organization: system 6626 BBS, Winnipeg MB

diarmuid@uniwa.uwa.edu.au (Diarmuid Pigott) writes:

> al@sys6626.bison.mb.ca (Haus Der Luge) writes:
> : It struck me recently that those who have been most nasty and rude 
> : towards John Cage's music (a lot of them have, of course, come out of the 
> : woodwork since his untimely death) 
> :  
> 
> I don't agree - some of the most popular and lengthy flame-wars on this
> group have been about Cage...
> 
> And if you are serious when you write
> : ... are the people who need his music the most.
> then you are confirming what I always suspected - John Cage (as well as
> being a thoroughly nice bloke with a sense of humour who wrote clearly
> and amusingly and was an expert mycologist) was an aesthetician, not a
> composer... 
> 
> I would never compare Bach or Beethoven to a patent medicine tonic. Do
> you think the FDA should investigate the therapeutic/harmful effects of
> Cage's music? Should the music only be sold on a prescription from a
> naturopath? "Warning - bottle is empty, but the net volume is 4.33 ml,
> and the patient should assume the position of a patient about to take
> medicine". 
> 
> Ahah - you have such insight - I realise what you mean - John Cage's
> compositions are THE PLACEBO OF MUSIC! Brilliant... Sir, I take my hat
> off to you...

 
That's fairly blunt. It's certainly true that it's questionable whether a 
lot of what he did could be termed "music" at all, but to his credit he 
did write some very interesting stuff. The place I lose him is where one 
piece of music can sound totally different when interpreted by several 
people. In my mind, the point where the last bit of order is gone is 
where is stops being music and starts becoming "performance art".

However in the original message, I agree completely. Stuffy academics who 
look down their noses at Cage and self-righteously say to one another "I 
suppose he's INTERESTING..." while rolling their eyes in contempt, DO 
need a good amount of Cage rammed down their throats. 
 
Say what you like about Cage...at least he's never boring. Wish I could 
say the same for Mozart.
 
KS

;--- (Kevin Scott) a user of sys6626, running waffle 1.64
;E-mail: kevin@sys6626.bison.mb.ca
;system 6626: 63 point west drive, winnipeg manitoba canada R3T 5G8
From: tomanix@sintra.xip.dec.com (Antonio Rodrigues)
Subject: Re: Bach and religious feelings
Reply-To: tomanix@sintra.xip.dec.com (Antonio Rodrigues)
Organization: Digital Equipment Corporation
Date: Wed, 19 Aug 1992 11:15:03 GMT


roger@phoenix.Princeton.EDU (Roger Lustig) writes:

>>The music speaks for itself, most eloquently.

>Bullshit.

>NO music speaks.  Ever.  It has to be played and listened to.  It has to
>be given a context for listening, and in many cases it needs to be
>explained, either in reference to other music, or in reference ot
>cultural or historical matters.

>Music does NOT speak for itself; we have to make it speak, and we
>generally make that music speak which agrees with our opinions.

Maybe I'm wrong but it seems that you are that kind of people that
listens music in their cars on the way home after a working day.

Music, the way I see it, is an image, a projection of something that is
beyond itself. A language, and so it speaks for itself. When you' re listen
music, and Bach is a good example, you 're transported to other reality. 
The thing is that you have to be sensitive to music the same way you have to
be sensitive to maths in order to understand, I prefer 'feel', that language.  

If by 'a context for listening' you mean 'not in the car' I can agree
with you, but I prefer to say 'available to feel'.

The music DON'T need to be played, the player is just the 'transport
provider', and all musics, again Bach is a good example, lost something when
they 're being performed, even if they are good performances.

Do you think music 'needs to be explained' ?! Please try to 'explain' to 
me 'The Goldberg Variations' ..., no, I don't mean that text you found in
your CD, I mean the music, it' essence, and I don't see what it has to do
with Mr. Goldberg or the Count Kaiserling's sleepless nights. 

tomanix
   
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
From: fgh@taormina.sbi.com (Frank Hamilton @ Salomon Brothers Inc., NY )
Subject: Re: Tower Records : Sale
Organization: Salomon Brothers Inc., NY
Date: Thu, 13 Aug 92 20:36:41 GMT

In article <1992Aug10.144733.1@venus.ycc.yale.edu> bamn@venus.ycc.yale.edu writes:
>hi,
>could someone in the new york area please post
>on this net te next time there is a storewide sale at
>Tower records?
>there are a few of us here at yale who will be interested in
>driving down to NY but would like to do so if there is a sale!
>thank you
>naren
>p.s. can also e-mail: bamn@venus.yc.yale.edu
>a


Why don't you just shop at J&R Music World on Park Row southeast of the
City Hall 4/5/6 subway stop?  Their prices are as much as 2 - 4+ dollars
cheaper per disc than Tower.  Tower is the most expensive place in
Manhattan to shop after the Metropolitan Opera Guild shops.  Their sales
only bring their prices down to other stores' regular price.  And J&R
has sales too!!!  J&R has almost as good a stock as Tower.  J&R has all
the imported small European labels usually in stock.  The only things I
go to Tower for are the Japanese imports and the Annex both at the
Village Tower only, and to window-shop.  Although I must admit that I
think both Tower and HMV order from Allegro Imports more often.

I am just a consumer and have no affiliation with any retailer other
than the massive amounts of opera I purchase there :-)

Frank Hamilton
fgh@pivot.sbi.com
~
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
Subject: Re: Shostakovich quartets
From: Marco Simionato <simion@iveuncc.unive.it>
Date: 18 Aug 92 11:13:47 +0100
Distribution: world
Organization: University of Venezia
X-UserAgent: Nuntius v1.1a2Lines: 5

Absolutely go for the Borodin Quartet complete recording - no doubt
this is the reference. Last year they gave the complete live performance
in a series of concerts in Venice, Italy.

Marco Simionato
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
From: steve@fid.morgan.com (Steve Apter)
Subject: Re: Mystery of the missing CD's !
Organization: Morgan Stanley & Co., New York, NY
Date: Thu, 13 Aug 1992 23:23:21 GMT

In article <92225.115750MHUGHES@MIAMIU.BITNET> <MHUGHES@MIAMIU.BITNET> writes:
>In article <1992Aug10.174550.8159@vax.oxford.ac.uk>, atmrjga@vax.oxford.ac.uk
>says:

>			 You get to see if you've been gyped, and if so, can
>immediately go get another copy.                      ^^^^^
>

Yeah, and if you have maybe you can jew him down on the price.

------

Courtesy of your friendly, neighborhood PC Watchman
From: roger@phoenix.Princeton.EDU (Roger Lustig)
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
Subject: Re: Wedding music suggestions?
Date: 15 Aug 92 22:34:30 GMT
Organization: Princeton University
Originator: news@nimaster

In article <1992Aug15.173924.19765@usenet.ins.cwru.edu> 
ac220@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Rich Szabo) writes:
>
>Anyone have some suggestions for good wedding ceremony music?
>I would like to solicit your ideas.  The ceremony is a Catholic
>mass and I am slated to appear as the groom.  Please post
>suggestions here or e-mail to ac220@cleveland.freenet.edu.

Well, I suppose that rules out "Carmina Burana," the Mozart Requiem, and
the Pachelbel canon, which is just about all we talk about around here.
Actually, there are a few pieces by John Cage that would do nicely.
Try _Roaratorio_.  Or, instead of music, have a discussion group about
great opera recordings.  Everybody has one or two faves, right?

Seriously, though, could you give us a hint as to what you had in mind?
Like, will the music be performed live or played from recordings?  Do
you want music for the entire Mass, or just some interludes for the
Communion, the recessional, etc.?  If it's to be performed, what forces
can/will you have available?  Will the church be ticked off if you don't
use their organist?  What kind of music do you like?  For that matter,
what kind of music does the *bride* like?  (I assume you have one of
those slated as well.  8-)  )

Finally, check with your priest.  Some churches have guidelines or rules
about what can/can't be done in the context of a service.

Roger
From: krw1@ns1.cc.lehigh.edu (Kevin Weiner)
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
Subject: Re: Mozart REQUIEM
Date: 12 Aug 92 16:58:48 GMT
Organization: Lehigh University

>In article <1992Aug11.180142.21539@titan.tsd.arlut.utexas.edu>,
colby@tsd.arlut.utexas.edu (Colby Leider) writes:
>>
>> This work is awesome.  (i just thought i would share this with everyone)
>>
>> colby
>>
>
>i agree wholeheartedly, i consider it to be mozarts best!

Ouch.  If you check carefully, you might find another name (or two) listed as
co-composer.  I don't think you'll get any disagreement that it's a great
work, however...
-- 

----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Kevin Weiner        Lehigh University Computing Center        (215) 758-3991
From: navsaria@bu-pub.bu.edu (Dipesh Navsaria)
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
Subject: Opera Un Met at Hatch Shell?
Date: 20 Aug 92 17:04:11 GMT
Distribution: ma
Organization: Boston University


   This Saturday is supposed to be "Opera Un Met" at the Hatch Shell on
the Charles River Esplanade.  Does anyone know 
	a) What exactly it is?
	b) What will be played/sung?
	c) Who is it?  The Metropolitan Opera from NYC?

   Thanks!  The MDC people only have a scratchy recording which wasn't much
help.  Please e-mail directly!

						Dipesh
						(navsaria@pub.bu.edu)
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
Subject: Re: Mystery of the missing CD's !
From: <MHUGHES@MIAMIU.BITNET>
Date: Wednesday, 12 Aug 1992 11:57:50 EDT
Organization: Miami University - Academic Computer Service

In article <1992Aug10.174550.8159@vax.oxford.ac.uk>, atmrjga@vax.oxford.ac.uk
says:
>
>Has anyone else thought they've bought a CD, then taken it home only to find
>that they've got a CD case with nothing in it?
>
>In my local stores in Oxford, this can't happen. On display are the
>empty cases. When you want to buy the CD, you take the case up to the counter,
>and an assistant puts the actual disc into it in full view of the customer.
>customer.
>However, in the big shops in London, the cases on display already contain the
>discs, and the whole package is wrapped in plastic. You buy the (hopefully)
>complete item at the counter, and then, (if you are foolish), take it
>home before opening it up to see whether there's actually a CD inside.
>
If you buy regularly at a local shop, exchanging should be no problem.  In
any case, the easy solution is to open the disc in the store immediately
upon purchase.  You get to see if you've been gyped, and if so, can
immediately go get another copy.  The icing on the cake is that you get the
store to go to the trouble of opening those damned plastic packages, and you
leave all the trash with them.
 
Mike
From: snahas@ARIES.INTEL.COM (steven nahas)
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
Subject: Wedding music recommendations
Date: 18 Aug 92 16:23:43 GMT


Since I've found out that this group gets this question often, 
and it would help if I were a bit more specific, I'll try to be:

Do like Bach and Bartok, don't care for waltzes, or dance music.

This is going to be a Unitarian wedding, held at a country inn in
Pennsylvania, with dinner reception following, from 4-8 pm this fall.

There will be no music during the ceremony itself, but the usual
processional/recessional music + music for a sit down dinner for 
~ 40-50 people on an outdoor patio looking out into the country.

Specifically, any suggestions for Bach or Mozart for prelude music,
ie before  the procesional, as well as something other than
Mendelssohn's Wedding March for the very SHORT walk down the aisle!

Andrea was thinking that someone might know of a recording of church
bells (since we're not getting married AT the church) for immediately 
following the ceremony would be very apropos.

Reception music we would hope to garner special suggestions from the
following composers, Stravinsky, Bartok, Beethoven, RAVEL, Scriabin,
Tchaikovsky, Mozart, Chopin, Dvorak.                                 

hope this further clarifies our needs :-)          


ONce again, thanks very much

Steve&Andrea
snahas@aries.intel.com
From: cb@tamarack13.timbuk (Chris Brewster)
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
Subject: Re: Not-quite-unisons in piano tuning
Date: 18 Aug 92 17:02:26 GMT
Organization: pubs
In-reply-to: maverick@cs.berkeley.edu's message of 14 Aug 1992 17:09:15 GMT

Vance Maverick writes:

   The standard reference is Gabriel Weinreich, "Coupled Piano Strings",
   J. Acoust. Soc. Am. 62(6), December 1977, pp. 1474-1484.  The slight
   detuning of the strings turns out, in his account, to be very
   important for piano sound as we know it. ...

This was also written up in Scientific American, and reprinted in their
collection entitled (I think) The Physics of Music.  I suspect the
author is the same guy because it was around the same year.  This source
might be easier to find than JASA.

Chris Brewster
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
From: steve@fid.morgan.com (Steve Apter)
Subject: Re: Schreker
Organization: Morgan Stanley & Co., New York, NY
Date: Thu, 20 Aug 1992 23:02:36 GMT

In article <1992Aug20.220422.20479@CSD-NewsHost.Stanford.EDU> spg@Xenon.Stanford.EDU (Stephen P. Guthrie) writes:
>I'd like some information about this composer (Schreker). Particularly whether
>it's worth shelling out for any of his operas. I've seen two at mid-price:
>Die Ferne Klang, and Der Schatzgraber (probably incorrect spelling). What
>is this stuff like? Perhaps Straussian? What about the chamber symphony?
>
>

For the most part, I find Zemlinsky and Schreker less interesting than many 
of their contemporaries and immediate precursors/successors.  The operas you
mention are probably worth hearing if you're interested in gaining a synoptic 
view of the music of this period, or if you enjoy orchestral color for its own 
sake (Schreker was, audibly, a master in this domain).  But much of what I've 
heard (including the two operas you mention) seems uninspired, self-conscious,
and contrived to satisfy some then-fashionable notion of "decadence".  A better 
choice, in my opinion, would be Hindemith's chamber opera of Kokoschka's play 
_Murder, the Hope of Woman_ (or any of his other early shockers, most if not 
all available in decent performances on the Wergo label). 

Now if you really want an off-the-wall opera recommendation, try either of
Rautavaara's (recorded) works:  _Vincent_ and _Thomas_, both on Ondine.  In
fact, try both.

Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
From: roger@phoenix.Princeton.EDU (Roger Lustig)
Subject: Re: John Cage is Dead
Originator: news@nimaster
Organization: Princeton University
Date: Thu, 13 Aug 1992 14:45:12 GMT

In article <1992Aug13.135934.13383@dgbt.doc.ca> 
ted@dgbt.doc.ca (Ted Grusec) writes:
>In article <1992Aug13.074926.2690@nuscc.nus.sg> 
Smoliar@ISS.nus.sg (Stephen Smoliar) writes:
>>
>>This is when I regret being isolated in a country whose news coverage ranges
>>from non-existent to mediocre.  Will some kind soul please post a statement
>>with the journalistic fundamentals 
(like where, when, and how)?  The word came
>>to me from a colleague whose girlfriend 
picked it up off the wire at Singapore
>>Broadcasting;  but if they never bothered to air his music, I doubt that they
>>will give any air time to reporting his death.

>He was a musician's musician rather than a listener's musician,
>perhaps. 

GACK!  Have we been doing something wrong, then?  (I lean toward calling
him a "dancer's musician," among other things...)

>Age 79, stroke, is all I got on the CBC news.  The CBC
>usually has at least one program devoted to the artist's work
>and this is usually on the day of death. But in this case, not a peep.
>Perhaps such a program will come today. But the truth must be that
>most music listeners don't know his music nor his influence and so his
>passing is unnoticed.

He died at St. Vincent's, the hospital of Greenwich Village.  The NYT
gave him the bottom-right-hand corner of the front page, with the
headline, "John Cage, 79, a Minimalist of Musical Prolificacy, Dies".

My AHD does not mention "prolificacy"; perhaps it was a coinage in his
honor.  Alan Kozinn wrote the obit, which is pretty good, I suppose.

Roger
>-- 
>==========================================================================
>Ted Grusec    Communications Research Centre    (Govt. of Canada, DOC)
> 3701 Carling Ave., Ottawa, Ont.K2H 8S2, CANADA  Internet: ted@dgbt.doc.ca
>  Compuserve: 73607,1576  (613) 998 2762   Fax (613) 993 8657


Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
From: gds@oahu.cs.ucla.edu (Greg Skinner)
Subject: Re: Sightreading and Computers
Summary: Why sightread?
Originator: gds@oahu.cs.ucla.edu
Reply-To: gds@cs.ucla.edu (Greg Skinner)
Organization: too funky
Date: Tue, 18 Aug 92 20:52:49 GMT

In article <1992Aug18.045238.10336@news.cs.brandeis.edu> jacob@max.cc.brandeis.edu ( ) writes:
>One issue that hasn't been addressed in this discussion on sightreading is
>what exactly all those people want to learn to sightread for?

Good point.

>Nobody has made that very clear as if sightreading was a goal in itself,
>whereas I believe as a skill in itself sightreading is a pretty useless
>skill to have. Sighreading is a means to an end and that those ends were
>not made exteremely explicit by those who were interested in sighreading...

I've heard several reasons given for acquiring sightreading as a
skill:

* It's required (e.g. for a class, a degree, a performing group, etc.)
* It's something that "musicians" must be able to do
* It gives you an edge in getting certain jobs
* You don't have to play recordings of pieces to learn how they're
  supposed to sound. :-)

--gregbo

Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
From: rchrd@netcom.com (Richard Friedman)
Subject: Re: Bulent Arel
Date: Thu, 20 Aug 92 02:55:16 GMT
Organization: Applied Parallel Rsrch (Berkeley)

maverick@cs.berkeley.edu (Vance Maverick) writes:

>PS.  I also heard he didn't get along with Ilhan Mimaroglu....

Ok, Vance. Now where and how did you get that information.?.

-- 
/\=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=/\
\/Richard Friedman (510)528-7055  |  rchrd@netcom.com    
/\Applied Parallel Rsch (Berkeley)|                          /\
\/=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=\/

Newsgroups: rec.music.classical