HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: gmark@cbnewse.cb.att.com (gilbert.m.stewart)
Subject: Re: IQ Test?
Organization: AT&T
Date: Fri, 8 Jan 1993 17:17:58 GMT

In article <mike_steiner-070193170153@192.35.50.131> mike_steiner@qm.claris.com (Mike Steiner) writes:
>In article <1993Jan7.060255.2079@julian.uwo.ca>, roberts@gaul.csd.uwo.ca
>(Eric Roberts) wrote:
>> 
>> In article <01GT7GVXIZAAADDWGI@ccfvx3.draper.com> skh4161@mvs.draper.com (Kjeld Hvatum) writes:
>
>> >You're right if you're talking about the kind of small differences (130
>> >IQ vs. 140 IQ) that seem to be important to some people.  But if you're
>> >talking about 67 IQ vs. 143, your statement is very likely to be flat
>> >wrong.
>> >
>> I agree with you that there will be a difference between an individual
[....]
>
>More than likely it means that there is an inherent limit in each person. 
>If it were a matter of education, then wouldn't there be less of a
>differential between the highest and lowest measurements?
>
>> The difference between 60 and 150 may be great, but the difference between
>> 120-150 (or 150-180) is not, since both individuals have the basic skills
>> that are measured by those tests well developed (like vocab).    
>
>Interesting that you use a 30-point difference in both of those examples. 
>Studies have shown that if there is a difference of 30 or more points
>between two people, they have trouble communicating with each other.
>

Did I just see a lightbulb turn on?

GMS
Newsgroups: rec.org.mensa
From: gmark@cbnewse.cb.att.com (gilbert.m.stewart)
Subject: Re: IQ Test?
Organization: AT&T
Date: Fri, 8 Jan 1993 17:30:44 GMT

In article <Jan.8.02.28.12.1993.3789@romulus.rutgers.edu> clong@romulus.rutgers.edu (Chris Long) writes:
>In article <EIVERSON.93Jan6221336@aiaia.nmsu.edu>, Eric Iverson writes:
>
>> My next door neighbor (170 IQ, Ph.D in physics at age 21) who joined
>> with me was even more infuriated.
>
>How smart can he be if he's friends with you?

That's pretty nasty, Chris.  Actually, I can see his point.  The first
time I went to a Mensa activity, I was disgusted by it.  Two guys in
particular.  Still don't know why they were so ornery.

GMS
Newsgroups: rec.org.mensa
From: kkirksey@world.std.com (Ken B Kirksey)
Subject: Evolution? 
Organization: The World Public Access UNIX, Brookline, MA
Date: Fri, 8 Jan 1993 17:34:52 GMT

>BTW, what do you believe has caused all the various species of plants and
>animals (including the extinct ones) to have developed on this planet?  If
>not evolution, then what?

We're not discussing his beliefs.  He asked you to prove and defend
yours.  This seems to be a favorite tactic of those backed into
a corner when asked for proof of evolution: ask the other person
if they have a better explanation.  If not, well, evolution
wins by default.  If a better answer does not exists, it does not automatically
make yours the right one, or the truth.



-- 
+----------------------------+------------------------------------------------+
| Ken Kirksey                | "A man cannot be too careful in his choice     |
| kkirksey@world.std.com     |  of enemies."                                  |
| The World, Brookline, MA   |                - Oscar Wilde                   |
Newsgroups: rec.org.mensa
From: radams@BNR.CA (Rodney Adams)
Subject: Re: New sins
Date: Mon, 11 Jan 1993 20:05:10 GMT
Reply-To: "Rodney Adams" <RADAMS@BNR.CA>
Organization: Bell-Northern Research, Ltd.

In article <1993Jan10.222058.16966@cbnewse.cb.att.com>,
gmark@cbnewse.cb.att.com (gilbert.m.stewart) writes:
|>In article <1993Jan10.083337.3619@syacus.acus.oz.au>
ron@syacus.acus.oz.au (Ron Williams) writes:
|>>Rodney Adams (radams@BNR.CA) wrote:
|>>> 
|>>> Other listed sins in the Roman Catholic Church's first worldwide 
|>>> addendum to its official list of sins since 1545 include:
|>>> 
|>>[ some deletions ]
|>>
|>>> 7. Discrimination on the basis of sex, sexual orientation, age, 
|>>>    religion, national origin or handicap
|>>[ more deletes ]
|>>
|>>Really?? 
|>
|>Pardon my naivete', but I was under the impression that "sins" were
|>defined by their being prohibited by the writings in the Bible.

Just guessing, but I would assume that later "sins" could be derived
from earlier ones or interpreted from the writings of the Bible to
accommodate current situations.  For example, drunken driving and forging
checks could not have appeared in the Bible, but the former could be
derived from "thou shalt not kill" and the latter from "thou shalt not
steal."
 
|>What does a separate list of sins accomplish, and how could the
|>list of things considered sins change?  

Technology, education, and the general "progress" of civilization can 
change the list.  As for what they accomplish, consider them as guides
for the potentially ignorant.  One who lacks the common sense to see
such things as being wrong might need such a list.  Similar to laws,
really.  I mean, I don't need Congress telling me it's against the law
to set fire to my neighbor's house when I know quite well that I shouldn't
do it.  However, if my neighbor needs a law to know that setting MY house
aflame is wrong, then I'm glad we have such a law on the books.

|>And is there a grandfather
|>rule?  Would people be pulled out of Heaven because they did things
|>that weren't sins when they got there?  Is there an extradition
|>agreement?  I can picture the big line at the Pearly Gates, and
|>Saint Peter yelling, "Yablonski, John!  Got some bad news for
|>you, buddy."
|>
|>GMS
                         
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Rodney G. Adams
The opinions expressed above are not necessarily those of my employer.
As if you didn't already know that....
"Christ died for our sins.  Dare we make his martyrdom meaningless by
not committing them?"                                  - Jules Feiffer
Newsgroups: rec.org.mensa
From: cmwolf@mtu.edu (christopher m. wolf)
Subject: Re: IQ Test?
Organization: Michigan Technological University
Date: Tue, 12 Jan 1993 21:55:36 GMT

gmark@cbnewse.cb.att.com (gilbert.m.stewart) writes:
>In article <1993Jan12.045648.17151@mtu.edu> cmwolf@mtu.edu (christopher m. wolf) writes:
>>galster@plains.NoDak.edu (Dwight Galster) writes:
>>>And if you think the Bible is not God's book but just the writings of
>>>fallible men, then you have, in my opinion, a very weak basis for any
>>>kind of religion.  If you yourself are to decide what God says and what
>>>God means, that effectively puts you above God.  It is the supreme form
>>>of idolatry. (This paragraph applies only to those calling themselves
>>>Christian.)
>>
>>And thank God us Christains don't give a %#$@ what you think.
>>
>
>I think it's rather presumptuous and self-centered to speak for
>all Christians and say that you don't care what another person
>thinks, let alone all other people.  Hope you don't really mean
>that.
>
>GMS

Actually, I was trying to make a funny with the "Thank God".

Oh well.  Never said I actually carried by mind with me.
Organization: University (eh eh) of Central Florida
Date: Monday, 4 Jan 1993 15:14:09 EST
From: <FDMWINK@UCF1VM.BITNET> "Larry Wink"
Newsgroups: rec.org.mensa
Subject: Re: random comments..ha ha

In article <jgs1.726137614@Isis.MsState.Edu>, jgs1@ra.msstate.edu (jimi
strickland) says:
>
>  I write very slowly due to having badly
>  damaged the wrist of my writing hand.
>  I can type extremely fast and accurately, though.  ;-)
>
>  I am curious as to my 'intelligence level.'
>  Where might I acquire some sort of test to determine it somewhat accurately?
>
>    -jimi-
>
Well, jimi, I'm sure that you'll make an excellent typist.  If you're
really in a hurry to find out your 'intellidence level' here's a
telephone number that I saw advertised on the TV over the Holidays:

        1-900-TV4-MIND

the ad claims that by asking true/false questions the program (I assume)
can determine your IQ within 15 minutes (@ $3.95/minute).

Please let us know how you do.

 --Larry Wink
 Internet: fdmwink@ucf1vm.cc.ucf.edu <or> ljw@pro-magic.oau.org
 Bitnet: fdmwink@ucf1vm     Usenet: bbs-phaedrus@jwt.UUCP     GEnie: l.wink
                     "Stupidity is its own reward." - me
Newsgroups: rec.org.mensa
From: kkirksey@world.std.com (Ken B Kirksey)
Subject: Evolution? 
Organization: The World Public Access UNIX, Brookline, MA
Date: Fri, 8 Jan 1993 17:31:26 GMT

In article <mike_steiner-070193102944@192.35.50.131> mike_steiner@qm.claris.com (Mike Steiner) writes:
>In article <1993Jan4.204851.17743@julian.uwo.ca>, roberts@gaul.csd.uwo.ca
>(Eric Roberts) wrote:
>
>> Yes, I do not believe in evolution, and I have yet to see any reason
>> why I should. There is plently of evidence against it.
>
>On the contrary; there is plenty of evidence for it.  There is precious
>little evidence against it.  Although the mechanism of evolution is not
>fully understood, that does not mean that evolution doesn't exist.
>
>Evolution happens.
>
Hey, Mike!  Looks like we get to carry this discussion on over two
nets.
 
You might not have gotten my post on the fido MENSA echo yet, so I'll
repeat it here.  If someone came up and asked you how you know that
evolution happens, what would you tell them?  What examples would
you give to PROVE that purely naturalistic evolution is responsible for
all life on this planet?



-- 
+----------------------------+------------------------------------------------+
| Ken Kirksey                | "A man cannot be too careful in his choice     |
| kkirksey@world.std.com     |  of enemies."                                  |
| The World, Brookline, MA   |                - Oscar Wilde                   |
From: mike_steiner@qm.claris.com (Mike Steiner)
Newsgroups: rec.org.mensa
Subject: Re: Evolution?
Date: 11 Jan 93 23:04:25 GMT
Followup-To: rec.org.mensa

In article <C0Jq64.FJ2@world.std.com>, kkirksey@world.std.com (Ken B
Kirksey) wrote:
> 
> >BTW, what do you believe has caused all the various species of plants and
> >animals (including the extinct ones) to have developed on this planet?  If
> >not evolution, then what?
> 
> We're not discussing his beliefs.  He asked you to prove and defend
> yours.  This seems to be a favorite tactic of those backed into
> a corner when asked for proof of evolution: ask the other person
> if they have a better explanation.  If not, well, evolution
> wins by default.  If a better answer does not exists, it does not automatically
> make yours the right one, or the truth.

To date, the theory of evolution is the best solution we have; no other
theory or hypothesis comes as close to answering the questions.  Therefore,
until something better comes along, the theory of evolution is it.  If and
when something is developed that better answers the questions, then that
will become the accepted theory.  However, I strongly suspect that nothing
will be forthcoming other than refinements to the theory of evolution.

+---------------------------------------------------------------------+
|Now that I have a reader that can do .sigs, I can't think of a witty |
|one to put here, so I won't.  All normal disclaimers apply.          |
+---------------------------------------------------------------------+
Newsgroups: rec.org.mensa
From: roberts@gaul.csd.uwo.ca (Eric Roberts)
Subject: Re: IQ Test?
Organization: Computer Science Dept., Univ. of Western Ontario, London, Canada
Date: Fri, 8 Jan 1993 04:13:52 GMT

In article <mike_steiner-070193104651@192.35.50.131> mike_steiner@qm.claris.com (Mike Steiner) writes:
>In article <1993Jan6.225536.1653@julian.uwo.ca>, roberts@gaul.csd.uwo.ca
>(Eric Roberts) wrote:
>
>> I have read the sci.skeptic FAQ, and the arguments presented there are
>> not in the least degree convincing. It response to the argument above,
>> they state:
>
>> ER> Consider the freezing water in the example.  The wonderful
>> ER> arrangement in crystals arises from the random movement of water
>> ER> molecules.  But ice crystals do not require divine intervention
>> ER> as an explanation, and neither does the evolution of life.
>> ER> 
>> ER> Also, consider a casino.  An honest casino makes a profit from
>> ER> roulette wheels.  The result of a spin of a particular wheel is
>> ER> purely random, but casinos make very predictable profits.  So in
>> ER> evolutionary theory, even though the occurance of a particular
>> ER> mutation is random, the overall effect of improved adaptation
>> ER> over time is not.
>> ER>
>> 
>> This argument is simply nonsense. The complexity of a water crystal
>> does not even come close to the complexity of the human body.
>> To claim that it has evolved by mistakes, is extremely impropable.
>> Of course there are some favorable mutations, but to claim that errors
>> can occur, one after another that do not kill the animal, are favorable
>> and lead to the creation of something as complex as, for example, the
>> human brain is humorous. I am just as likely to believe that the next
>> stone I throw will not return to earth, but fly to Mars.
>> Maybe it was not this answer that you were refering to....
>
>Your rebuttal is simply nonsense.  No one, other than you, has claimed that
>anything evolves by "mistakes."  A belief that the next stone thrown will
>fly to Mars is about the same level of belief that evolution does not
>happen.
>
Oh, is that so? In this case we must be discussing two different theories,
please enlighten me as to what process your evolution uses.
 

>BTW, what do you believe has caused all the various species of plants and
>animals (including the extinct ones) to have developed on this planet?  If
>not evolution, then what?
>
I don't know and never claimed that I did.

>+---------------------------------------------------------------------+
>|Now that I have a reader that can do .sigs, I can't think of a witty |
>|one to put here, so I won't.  All normal disclaimers apply.          |
>+---------------------------------------------------------------------+


Newsgroups: rec.org.mensa
From: radams@BNR.CA (Rodney Adams)
Subject: Re: New sins
Date: Mon, 11 Jan 1993 19:33:59 GMT
Reply-To: "Rodney Adams" <RADAMS@BNR.CA>
Organization: Bell-Northern Research, Ltd.

In article <1993Jan10.083337.3619@syacus.acus.oz.au>,
ron@syacus.acus.oz.au (Ron Williams) writes:
|>Rodney Adams (radams@BNR.CA) wrote:
|>> 
|>> Other listed sins in the Roman Catholic Church's first worldwide 
|>> addendum to its official list of sins since 1545 include:
|>> 
|>
|>[ some deletions ]
|>
|>> 7. Discrimination on the basis of sex, sexual orientation, age, 
|>>    religion, national origin or handicap
|>
|>[ more deletes ]
|>
|>Really?? 
|>Does this mean we will be seeing females in the priesthood sometime soon?

Although your next two items show that you are less than serious about this,
it is ironic that the Roman Catholic Church now lists sexual discrimination
as a sin and yet is so blatantly sexist in such things.  Why not have females
in the priesthood?  Why not a female pope?  Why not add marital status to
the list and allow married priests?  I'm not a Catholic, so perhaps some
of these things are already done in the less traditional Catholic churches.... 

|>A mentally challenged pope?
|>Islamic cardinals?
|>
|>:->
|>

Speaking of sexism in religion, does anyone else disapprove of the 
traditional christian marriage ceremonies - the father giving the bride
away, "man and wife," "to obey," etc.

And why is the Bible so damn sexist?  Did it become that way in later
translations, or were the original writings that way too?
                           
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Rodney G. Adams
The opinions expressed above are not necessarily those of my employer.
As if you didn't already know that....
Newsgroups: rec.org.mensa
From: cmwolf@mtu.edu (christopher m. wolf)
Subject: Re: IQ negatives
Organization: Michigan Technological University
Date: Fri, 8 Jan 1993 18:41:27 GMT

eiverson@nmsu.edu (Eric Iverson) writes:
>In article <1993Jan6.123441.12709@lmpsbbs.comm.mot.com> johnson@sleipnir.pb.wes.mot.com (Mark Johnson) writes:
>
>   In addition, an abundance of native learning ability may encourage
>   some individuals to "coast" through elementary and/or high school
>   without learning the discipline and habits required to succeed in
>   higher education or in the workplace.  This has been one of my
>   failings.
>
>I coasted through elementary school
>I coasted through middle school
>I coasted through high school

I started in a BA for CS after following the same course as you did 
above.  It was very simple.  So rather than wasting was life, I changed
to a more challenging curriculum.

Newsgroups: rec.org.mensa
From: roberts@gaul.csd.uwo.ca (Eric Roberts)
Subject: Re: IQ Test?
Organization: Computer Science Dept., Univ. of Western Ontario, London, Canada
Date: Sat, 9 Jan 1993 19:39:09 GMT

In article <1993Jan9.150804.21659@cbnewse.cb.att.com> gmark@cbnewse.cb.att.com (gilbert.m.stewart) writes:
>In article <1993Jan8.202654.9396@julian.uwo.ca> roberts@gaul.csd.uwo.ca (Eric Roberts) writes:
>>In article <1993Jan8.171012.22397@cbnewse.cb.att.com> gmark@cbnewse.cb.att.com (gilbert.m.stewart) writes:
>>>In article <mike_steiner-070193104411@192.35.50.131> mike_steiner@qm.claris.com (Mike Steiner) writes:
>>>>In article <1993Jan6.214524.25582@julian.uwo.ca>, roberts@gaul.csd.uwo.ca
>>>>(Eric Roberts) wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> I don't know of any way to predict performance, what I do know is that 
>>>>> IQ tests fail to do so.
>>>>
>>>>SATs have proven to be a valid predictor of performance in the first year
>>>>of college or university.
>>>
>>>Out of curiosity, Eric, what has been your personal experience with
>>>IQ and SAT tests?  Do you have some information about any specific
>>>examples of their failures?
>>Do you have any of about them being successfull?
>
>Many universities use the tests for admission because of the correlation
>between the scores and being able to complete studies.  And what about
>your personal experience?
I have seen many people whose ability did not correlate with scores
obtained, or even with performance in school (at least not with
my perception of their ability, which may be very inacurate).
The question here is whether we are or not, using tests to determine the
opportunities given to an individual, based on performance on a test, 
that has not beebeen shown to predict ability.
From: jcooley@miracle.com (John Cooley)
Newsgroups: rec.org.mensa
Subject: Re: Vocabulary for IQ?
Date: 12 Jan 93 17:03:27 GMT
Article-I.D.: miracle.12Jan93130327
Organization: Miracle Computer Consultants

hector@sci.ccny.cuny.edu (Hector Garcia) writes:
>Just out of curiosity. Can I become a supergenius if I memorize 
>the meaning of every word in a big dictionary?

Q: Is this one of your big goals in life?  (I'm just curious...)


 ==========================================================================
       John Cooley              Zappa as a waste management engineer: 
                                  "Hey, there, Brother!  Whatcha
    jcooley@miracle.com            doing with that Cosmic Debris?"  
Newsgroups: rec.org.mensa
From: gmark@cbnewse.cb.att.com (gilbert.m.stewart)
Subject: Re: questionable cancels?
Organization: AT&T
Date: Tue, 12 Jan 1993 23:10:24 GMT

In article <12Jan93125917@miracle.com> jcooley@miracle.com (John Cooley) writes:
>skh4161@mvs.draper.com (Kjeld Hvatum) writes:
>
>>FYI, according to this news control message, EDWARD LEE
>>BALDWIN canceled one of Mike Steiner's messages.  In fact, three
>>other messages of his were canceled in the same manner, and all
>>from NCSU.EDU, previously abused by the tedious "Scott Tai".
>>Mike, did you agree to this cancelation?
>
>
>  Good snooping, Kjeld!   Maybe NOW we might find out who Scott Tai
>  really is!    Way to go!
>

Yeah!!  And after we're done, we can go to the McDonald's and
scrape the gum off the bottoms of the tables!!

GM("I Now Have A Purpose")S
Newsgroups: rec.org.mensa
From: matt@severian.chi.il.us (Matt Crawford)
Subject: Re: IQ Test?
Organization: The Chrome Plated Megaphone of Destiny
Date: Sat, 9 Jan 1993 03:17:43 GMT

> > Eric Iverson:
> >> My next door neighbor (170 IQ, Ph.D in physics at age 21) who joined
> >> with me was even more infuriated.
> >
> Chris Long:
> >How smart can he be if he's friends with you?
> 
gilbert.m.stewart:
> Actually, I can see his point.  The first time I went to a Mensa
> activity, I was disgusted by it.  Two guys in particular.

The first Mensa event I went to after joining had an awfully high
geek-quotient.  (And I speak as one who was educated in a, um, geek-
rich environment.)  I didn't go to any more functions for two or
three months, then I attended a few and found a more compatible
crowd.

If I came out of a huge library saying that I couldn't find anything
interesting, would you conclude it was a poor library?
__________________________________________________________
Matt Crawford       matt@severian.chi.il.us       Java Man

Newsgroups: rec.org.mensa
From: johnson@sleipnir.pb.wes.mot.com (Mark Johnson)
Subject: Re: IQ Test?
Reply-To: johnson@wes.mot.com
Organization: Motorola Wireless Enterprises, Schaumburg, IL
Date: Tue, 12 Jan 1993 15:14:07 GMT

In article <1993Jan12.183720.22653@julian.uwo.ca>, roberts@gaul.csd.uwo.ca (Eric Roberts) writes:
=)In article <mike_steiner-110193144834@192.35.50.131> mike_steiner@qm.claris.com (Mike Steiner) writes:
=)>In article <1993Jan8.202654.9396@julian.uwo.ca>, roberts@gaul.csd.uwo.ca
=)>(Eric Roberts) wrote:
=)>> 
=)>> In article <1993Jan8.171012.22397@cbnewse.cb.att.com> gmark@cbnewse.cb.att.com (gilbert.m.stewart) writes:
=)>> >In article <mike_steiner-070193104411@192.35.50.131> mike_steiner@qm.claris.com (Mike Steiner) writes:
=)>> >>In article <1993Jan6.214524.25582@julian.uwo.ca>, roberts@gaul.csd.uwo.ca
=)>> >>(Eric Roberts) wrote:
=)>> >>> I don't know of any way to predict performance, what I do know is that 
=)>> >>> IQ tests fail to do so.
=)>> >>SATs have proven to be a valid predictor of performance in the first year
=)>> >>of college or university.
=)>> >Out of curiosity, Eric, what has been your personal experience with
=)>> >IQ and SAT tests?  Do you have some information about any specific
=)>> >examples of their failures?
=)>> Do you have any of about them being successfull?
=)>You brought up the issue of their not being of any use.  Do you have any
=)>evidence to support your claim?  If you have no evidence, that ends the
=)>discussion and there is no reason for anyone to attempt to rebut the claim.
=)>> >Also, I was wondering if you had any theories with respect to why
=)>> >so many institutions use these tests even if they have been proven
=)>> >worthless.  Thanks in advance.
=)>> Nope, I never figured that one out. One reason might be that people
=)>> attempt to measure everything, and feel more comfortable with a 
=)>> number. I hope you are not suggesting that the fact that 
=)>> people use those tests makes them valid...
=)>It just may be that those test really do what they are purported to do.  Do
=)>you have any evidence to show otherwise? 
=)It is not my duty to do so. You claim they measure someting, prove it.

In message 1234568, Garth writes:
>In message 1234567, Wayne writes:
>>In message 1234566, Garth writes:
>>>In message 1234565, Wayne writes:
>>>>In message 1234564, Garth writes:
>>>>>In message 1234563, Wayne writes:
>>>>>>In message 1234562, Garth writes:
>>>>>>>NO WAY!
>>>>>>WAY!
>>>>>NO WAY!
>>>>WAY!
>>>NO WAY!
>>WAY!
>NO WAY!
WAY!
-- 
+-----------------------------------------------------------------------------+
| "Johnson"            | Paranoid schizophrenics outnumber their enemies at   |
| johnson@wes.mot.com  |                 least two to one.                    |
+-----------------------------------------------------------------------------+
| Disclaimer:  If Motorola agreed with what I said, I'd get paid a lot more.  |
+-----------------------------------------------------------------------------+
Newsgroups: rec.org.mensa