HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: Tom Gray <tgray@igc.apc.org>
Newsgroups: sci.energy
Date: 23 Dec 92 05:33 PST
Subject: Re: wind powered generators
Nf-ID: #R:1992Dec22.005151.6213@oakhill.sp:759237154:cdp:1466300118:000:1011
Nf-From: cdp.UUCP!tgray    Dec 23 05:33:00 1992


lewc@oakhill.sps.mot.com writes:

 > I don't know if i'm in the right news forum but here goes:
 > 
 > Does anyone know of commercially viable wind-powered generators.
 > i.e. I need firms and contacts. Tx.


Two manufacturers of good, durable small wind turbines are Bergey
Windpower and Southwest Wind Power.

Equipment from both, plus a wide range of other alternative energy
equipment for homeowners, is available from:

Real Goods Trading Corp.
966 Mazzoni Street
Ukiah, CA 95482

Their _1991 Alternative Energy Sourcebook_ costs $10 and can be ordered
by calling (800) 762-7325 (with a credit card #) between the hours of
7 am and 7 pm Pacific Time Monday-Saturday.

Highly recommended.  These guys have been around for a while and know
what they are doing.

If you are looking for information on larger scale turbines, contact the
American Wind Energy Association at (202) 408-8988, e-mail awea@mcimail.com.
*******************************************************************

Tom Gray
tgray@igc.apc.org
From: stead@skadi.CSS.GOV (Richard Stead)
Newsgroups: sci.energy
Subject: Re: Energy Ideas -- Solar Power
Date: 1 Jan 93 21:16:47 GMT

In article <1466300125@igc.apc.org>, ei@igc.apc.org (Essential Information) writes:
> Other factors make the benefits of solar power more attractive. 
> Boilers in many buildings must run throughout the year just to heat
> water for washing.  The operation of the boiler during summer
> months adds heat inside the building where it is not needed.  This
> heat must be cooled by the air conditioning system.  Solar heating,
> which uses heat from the outside of the building, does not add to
> the interior cooling load.  Thus, avoided Heating, Ventilation, and
> Air Conditioning (HVAC) costs should be incorporated into the
> life-cycle cost analysis when considering a solar heating system.

I don't agree with this.  It seems like well-designed solar systems
are being compared to poorly-designed boiler systems.  A good boiler
system would be well-insulated and properly vented so that it does
not heat the building (unless that is desired).  I think solar
heating for hot water would still probably beat the boiler, so
there is no need to consider the HVAC costs.  One problem with
solar hot water systems that isn't mentioned here, is the need to
store the heat.  This has been done by melting certain substances
(I think sodium sulfate decahydrate has been used, for example).
By storing the heat, people can have hot water in the morning (when there
is large demand).

> WATER DISTILLATION AND PURIFICATION ACHIEVED WITH SOLAR POWER
> 
> Solar stills create a continuous gentle steaming of water which is
> then trapped and allowed to condense. The conventional method,
> boiling water and condensing it, requires eight gallons of water to
> provide one gallon of purified water, while solar stills provide
> one gallon of purified water from just over one gallon of water. 

Again, I see no need to compare well-designed solar equipment to
poorly-designed non-solar equipment.  The solar still would operate
just fine with another thermal source than solar.  The main point
here is not having to provide another thermal source.  The solar
option would win out over any other distillation option without
the need to mix in a comparison of bad and good designs.  Solar
should be compared to the other energy sources - basically, it
will win as long as sufficient sun is available to keep the total
equipment cost low enough.


--
Richard Stead
Center for Seismic Studies
Arlington, VA
stead@seismo.css.gov
Xref: sparky sci.energy:6322 sci.electronics:21287
From: kludge@grissom.larc.nasa.gov (Scott Dorsey)
Newsgroups: sci.energy,sci.electronics
Subject: Re: Flywheel batteries as EV power source
Date: 21 Dec 1992 16:11:32 GMT
Organization: NASA Langley Research Center and Reptile Farm
NNTP-Posting-Host: grissom.larc.nasa.gov

In article <78150@ncratl.AtlantaGA.NCR.COM> mwilson@ncratl.AtlantaGA.NCR.COM (Mark Wilson) writes:
>In <gfBCW0a00YUn84A25_@andrew.cmu.edu> geek+@CMU.EDU (Brian E. Gallew) writes:
>
>|OK.  Here is one *I* would like to see. How about flywheel application
>|in uninterruptable power supplies?  The energy density should be a lot
>|higher, *and* they should be a lot lower maintenance.  I think someone
>|mentioned drawing power directly from the flywheel (basically using it
>|as a generator).  could this concept be broadened where you have both
>|a power-in and a power-out path going at the same time?  Wouldn't this
>|also tend to stop power surges and so forth?  Am I simply stupid?
>
>Sounds like an interesting idea to me.  Make one end of the flywheel a motor
>driven by line current.  Make the other end a generator that powers your
>computer, or whatever.  Output is electrically isolated from the input, and
>the mass of the flywheel will even out the surges and dropouts.

This used to be fairly common in big mainframe installations.  I worked at
a Cyber site that had a flywheel about ten feet in diameter attached to
the main motor-generator set.  When the power went out, we had about twenty
seconds of operation to save registers and copy all jobs out to disk.
--scott
Newsgroups: sci.energy
From: king@reasoning.com (Dick King)
Newsgroups: sci.energy
Subject: Re: hot water
Date: 24 Dec 92 21:24:38 GMT
Organization: Reasoning Systems, Inc., Palo Alto, CA

In article <5016.1017.uupcb@spacebbs.com> howard.smith@spacebbs.com (Howard Smith)  writes:
>M> First, my home heating system is essentially a oil-fired hot water
>M> heater (except the hot water heats my house not a shower) and it is
>M> rated as 87% efficient.  Higher efficiency is available.  I see no
>M> reason why an oil fired hot water heater should be only 20-30%
>M> efficient.
>
>The problem with oil and gas water heaters is the flue. It has to have
>low thermal resistance to the water and also low resistance to the flow
>of the fumes and air up from the bottom of the flue. Much heat goes up
>the flue.
>
>Real inefficiency occurs when the heater reaches temperature and shuts
>off, leaving the heat from the pilot light and the water, back through
>the low thermal resistance, to pass up the flue by convection.

One solution to this problem is to have a small hole via which air enters to
support combustion.

If you do this, then neither the Venturi effect nor convection is enough to
suck in the air, so a pumping mechanism is needed.

In efficient oil burners there is a fan.  In efficient gas burners there is
either a fan, or some form of pulsed combustion and resonant pumping.


There are "no moving parts" gas-fired boilers that have a low enough flue
temperature that the "flue" is PVC pipe; some even recover the latent heat in
the steam that is formed during combustion of the Hydrogen portion of the
Methane molecule.

-dk
Newsgroups: sci.energy
From: weimer@spud.NoSubdomain.NoDomain (Gary Weimer 726-3370)
Subject: Re: Flywheel batteries as EV power source
Reply-To: weimer@pixel.kodak.com
Organization: Eastman Kodak Co.; Rochester, NY
Date: Tue, 29 Dec 92 17:00:56 GMT

In article <drury-281292091239@esrfd.es.dupont.com>, drury@esvax.dunet.dupont.com (Robert F. Drury) writes:
|> Stuff delete
|> > 
|> > Any claim for a practical vehicle that gets over 50 MPG equivalent
|> > over a 600 mile run, gas, electric, flywheel, whatever, should be 
|> > scrutinized with great care.
|> > 
|> > Gary
|> 
|>  My 1992 Honda Civic VX has *averaged* 52.3 MPG over the past 30,000 miles.
|>  Since I drive over 40,000 miles per year, I require a practical car.

My Chevy Sprint easily gets 50 MPG in the winter and can get 60 MPG in
the summer. This is a 4 door car with enough room for a week-long trip
out of state carring me, my wife, my 2 year old daughter, and our
luggage + sleeping bags and christmas presents. Even while carrying all
this, it had no problem maintaining 65 mph up and down hills and still
got > 50 MPG.

How much more "practical" of a car do you require?

-- 

Gary Weimer (weimer@pixel.kodak.com)
From: stead@skadi.CSS.GOV (Richard Stead)
Newsgroups: sci.energy
Subject: Re: Flywheel batteries as EV power source
Date: 29 Dec 92 01:55:43 GMT

In article <92Dec24.183312.17315@acs.ucalgary.ca>, morrow@cns.ucalgary.ca (Bill Morrow) writes:
> City driving mpg figures would be higher, if we didn't sit in traffic jams and
> at red lights with the engine doing nothing useful. Calculate mpg
> subtracting out the gallons consumed when not moving. Depending on where you
> drive, I'm sure that *effective* city mpg is considerably higher. 

Only given complete energy recovery with regenerative braking.  This won't
happen (entropy if nothing else will prevent it).  Sure, energy disspiated
against air resistance is lower at city speeds, but there are too many other
losses that more than compensate.

> How much energy in a fly-wheel 1cm across spinning at 1Mrpm :) ?

Assuming a disk, energy is 0.125 * M * R^2 * da/dt^2
Your flywheel would store 120 * M megaJoules, where M is mass in kg.
If the 1 cm disk weighed 1 kg (more of a cylinder I imagine), it would
take 4 of these flywheels to provide 400 megaJoules that are likely
to be needed to power the vehicle the 600 miles claimed.  But the stress
in the material would cause any material to fail before reaching
1 Mrpm in this design.


--
Richard Stead
Center for Seismic Studies
Arlington, VA
stead@seismo.css.gov
From: Essential Information <ei@igc.apc.org>
Newsgroups: sci.energy
Date: 31 Dec 92 13:54 PST
Subject: Re: Energy Ideas - HVAC-2
Nf-ID: #R:cdp:1466300134:cdp:1466300135:000:2948
Nf-From: cdp.UUCP!ei    Dec 31 13:54:00 1992



INTRODUCTION

Concerted government purchases of energy-efficient and
non-ozone-depleting air conditioning systems can accomplish two
goals. First, these systems save money. Second, purchasing these
systems accelerates the diffusion of safe cooling systems into
the market, where they are desperately needed to minimize the
environmental impact of our energy use. 

According to an article in the October 30, 1992 Los Angeles
Times, the ozone hole over Antarctica stretches over nine million
record-breaking square miles (three times the size of the
continental United States), far enough to cover portions of
Chile. In the Northern hemisphere, the ozone layer has diminished
sharply over parts of Western Europe this year. In Oslo, Norway,
ozone measurements fell below 50 percent of normal levels.

The ozone layer blocks high-energy ultraviolet (UV) radiation
emitted by the sun. The thinning of the ozone layer over the
oceans can cause reduced reproductivity or death in several
surface-dwelling organisms, phytoplankton, zooplankton and fish
larvae, decimating the food chain. UV radiation has also been
linked to skin cancer and suppression of the human immune system.
According to the World Resources Institute, continued depletion
of stratospheric ozone can significantly increase the incidence
of skin cancer ~ perhaps as many as 12 million more cases in the
United States over the next 50 years ~ and adversely affect
agricultural production. 

Buildings and their air conditioning systems have been largely
responsible for the loss of ozone. Until recently, these systems
used chlorofluorocarbons (CFCs), chemicals whose thermodynamic
properties and supposed non-toxicity make them ideal
refrigerants. According to the National Audubon Society, nearly a
quarter of all emitted CFCs originate in building air
conditioning systems and the manufacturing processes used to make
building materials. Once emitted, a CFC molecule travels to the
atmosphere, where it can remain for over 100 years. Eventually,
sunlight breaks apart the molecule, freeing a chlorine atom which
destroys surrounding ozone molecules. Although industry has
touted newer refrigerants such as hydrochlorofluorcarbons (HCFCs)
as safer alternatives, these chemicals still release chlorine
into the atmosphere.

Air conditioning systems also affect the environment through
their energy consumption. Inefficient systems result in excessive
electricity consumption and contribute to the greenhouse effect,
acid rain, urban smog and the generation of low-level radioactive
waste. Inefficient systems also waste taxpayers~ money. The money
spent powering a school~s inefficient cooling system could be
spent instead on books.

This issue of Energy Ideas discusses ways to improve the energy
efficiency of air conditioning systems, from proper maintenance
to installation of adjustable speed drives. It also addresses the
alternatives to ozone-depleting cooling equipment.



Newsgroups: sci.energy
From: spears@bobcat.lmc.edu (Gene Spears)
Subject: Re: passive solar: fact or fiction
Organization: Lees-McRae College, Banner Elk, NC
Date: Tue, 22 Dec 1992 15:52:10 GMT

In article <1992Dec17.161305.7468@gn.ecn.purdue.edu> constant@gn.ecn.purdue.edu (Tino) writes:

>In article <1go6ntINN8j7@ollie.solbourne.com> dans@solbourne.com (Dan Scott) writes:
>>>Also, I would have to add that if the existing solar technology in that 
>>>house happens to be phased out, you've got a several hundred thousand 
>>>dollar "experiment" on your hands. People buy houses for security, and
>>>don't want to have to rebuild it 10-15 years down the line.

>>Maybe you could explain how passive solar technology is "phased out"
>>making your home less valuable? 


>I'll stick to my gas bill (albeit a bit high) than have a roof full of
>panels fail with no one around to fix them or replace them.

>Tino
>-- 
>     "Here are the young men, the weight on their shoulders..." - J.D.
>----------------------------------------------------------------------------
>             Purdue University School of Nuclear Engineering
>----------------------------------------------------------------------------

There seems to be a lot of confusion in this thread as to what constitutes 
PASSIVE and ACTIVE solar heating.  Passive solar heating is accomplished by 
using certain heat-storing materials, putting glass in appropriate places, 
and orienting your house to optimize (maximize or minmize depending on your 
climate) the amount of solar energy warming the homestead.

There are no panels, pipes, coolant, etc. involved in PASSIVE solar design.

Gene Spears
spears@bobcat.lmc.edu
From: ken@sugra.uucp (Kenneth Ng)
Newsgroups: sci.energy
Subject: Re: Notch another one up for the Greennazis
Date: 23 Dec 92 03:06:36 GMT
Organization: Private Computer, Totowa, NJ

In article <51637@seismo.CSS.GOV: stead@skadi.CSS.GOV (Richard Stead) writes:
:In article <1992Dec12.044341.16500@sugra.uucp>, ken@sugra.uucp (Kenneth Ng) writes:
:> In article <51588@seismo.CSS.GOV: stead@skadi.CSS.GOV (Richard Stead) writes:
:> :In article<1992Dec5.045552.1667@sugra.uucp>,ken@sugra.uucp (Kenneth Ng) writes:
:> The presumation I made was land and ocean have an equal probablity of having
:> the plutonium particle land.  I suspect that most of the rain comes down on
:> the mountains alongside of oceans.  This would make my estimate conservative.
:> Does anyone know for sure?
:_I_ know for sure!  For cryin' out loud, do you just doubt any statement
:that contradicts your presumptions?  If you want to check it
:out, grab any meteorology text.  For trivia buffs, not only does most rain
:fall on the oceans, most lightning occurs there, too.

Well dude, I did look it up, it hardly contradicts my presumption.  Source:
The Water Encyclopedia, edited by Frits Van Der Leeden.  Library id TD 351
.V36 1990.  Page 58.  Annual precipitation on world ocean: 320 cubic km,
on land: 100 cubic km.  I had assumed 30 percent fell on land ( roughly
1/3 of the earth is land).  By these numbers it is only 24 percent.  Whoopie.
Considering the 2 am or so gross estimates I was making in the original post,
I counsider this noise.

:> : Anyway, all this shows is that your example is a poor one
:> :for evaluating the lethality of Pu.
:> I was not evaluating the lethality of plutonium.  In an article that is no
:What?
:The following, in your own words:
:> :> need to traverse 9 square feet.  I really suspect a lethality of 0.5 nanogram
:> :> is really unrealistic.
:Looks like an evaluation of the lethality of Plutonium to me.

I assumed the 0.5 nanogram value was a realistic value to kill a person.  I
then figured out how frequent one would encounter such particles.  Since the
number was rather frequent, I surmised either: we are all dead and don't
realize it, my modeling has some rather significant errors (and I am still
not ruling them out, and I encourage those really interested in doing the
math more accurately and post the numbers), or the original assumption is
incorrect.  What I did not try to evaluate is the true lethality of
plutonium.

:Pu is easily detected by its characteristic gamma energy -

Plutonium is mostly an alpha and beta emitter.  However, I do note in the
CRC, there is an entry on the far right hand side indicating gamma energy
intensity.  The legend says something about annialiation with positrons,
but I'm not sure exactly what that is and when it is prevalent.

-- 
Kenneth Ng
Please reply to ken@eies2.njit.edu for now.
Apple and AT&T lawsuits: Just say NO!
From: carl@SOL1.GPS.CALTECH.EDU (Carl J Lydick)
Newsgroups: sci.energy
Subject: Re: electric fuel gauges
Date: 21 Dec 1992 08:47:25 GMT
Organization: HST Wide Field/Planetary Camera
Distribution: world
Reply-To: carl@SOL1.GPS.CALTECH.EDU
NNTP-Posting-Host: sol1.gps.caltech.edu

In article <4891.1017.uupcb@spacebbs.com>, howard.smith@spacebbs.com (Howard Smith) writes:
=GC>With a lead-acid battery, a voltmeter will give an indication of charge,
=GC>but depending on the condition of the battery and the temperature, the
=GC>actual capacity can still vary widely. With NiCad and NiMH batteries,
=GC>a voltmeter will only tell you that you've found empty. Probably the
=GC>best way is to use a watthour meter to measure the amount of electricity
=GC>put in and taken out of the battery. That's still not perfect, it takes
=GC>about a 20% overcharge to make a battery reach full capacity, and rapid
=GC>discharges will reduce a battery's capacity as much as 30% over slower
=GC>discharges. The only sure measure you've got is when the lights dim and
=GC>the vehicle slows to a halt, you know the battery needs charging.
=
=The performance of NiMH batteries is reasonably predictable

That's a nice qualitative statement.  JMC would be proud of you.  NOT!

=so that a
=bi-directional  watt-meter and a very simple computer could give
=results as accurate as the gas gage in the average IC car.

Oh?  The performance of NiMH batteries doesn't change as they age  (shades of
Oliver Wendell Holmes's Fabulous One-Horse Shay!)?  They're not affected by
temperature?  Driving cycle (i.e., discharge rate) doesn't affect the energy
availability in an extremely complex way?

How about posting some actual numbers (or references thereto) on these issues?

=The best way of preventing a low battery is to plug it in every night.

Er, Howard?  Suppose you've got a nominal range of 60 miles.  You've driven 58
miles.  You're driving past a place where you could recharge your battery, but
you *REALLY* want to get to someplace about 5 miles further in the next half
hour.

Do you stop and recharge your battery, or do you keep driving?

How the hell does whether you recharged your battery last night or not make a
difference here?

=Saves all that wear and tear of going to the gas station and spilling
=gas on your shoes.

Why didn't I figure out before now that you're not competent to be a filling
station attendant?
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Carl J Lydick | INTERnet: CARL@SOL1.GPS.CALTECH.EDU | NSI/HEPnet: SOL1::CARL

Disclaimer:  Hey, I understand VAXen and VMS.  That's what I get paid for.  My
understanding of astronomy is purely at the amateur level (or below).  So
unless what I'm saying is directly related to VAX/VMS, don't hold me or my
organization responsible for it.  If it IS related to VAX/VMS, you can try to
hold me responsible for it, but my organization had nothing to do with it.
From: Essential Information <ei@igc.apc.org>
Newsgroups: sci.energy
Date: 31 Dec 92 13:55 PST
Subject: Re: Energy Ideas - HVAC-2
Nf-ID: #R:cdp:1466300134:cdp:1466300145:000:2750
Nf-From: cdp.UUCP!ei    Dec 31 13:55:00 1992



RESOURCES

Energy User News is a monthly publication concerning commercial
and industrial energy use. Four recent issues provide important
directories: November, 1992 contains a product guide of
chiller-heaters; October, 1992 contains a list of firms which
recycle spent fluorescent bulbs; April, 1992 contains a directory
of Demand-Side Management rebates offered by utilities across the
country; and February, 1992 contains a product guide for
reflectors and ballasts. Call 1-800-247-8080 for subscription
information.

The Electric Ideas Clearinghouse, a program of the Bonneville
Power Administration, offers a hotline to provide fast, free
information on commercial and industrial energy efficient
technologies, products and programs. They also have an electronic
bulletin board service with software libraries, training
calendar, referrals directory and discussion groups. Priority is
given to energy professionals in the Bonneville Power service
area (Washington, Oregon, Montana and Idaho). Within this area,
call (800) 872-3568; outside call (206) 586-8588.

The American Gas Cooling Center's (AGCC) new Natural Gas Cooling
Equipment Guide ($30 for members, $50 for non-members) introduces
three basic types of gas cooling equipment - absorption,
engine-driven and desiccant - and presents brief descriptions of
equipment that is commercially available today. Also included are
short descriptions of systems under development. The guide
provides information necessary to identify options and evaluate
their feasibility for specific applications. A manufacturer
contact for each gas cooling system is also identified. The AGCC
is a gas industry organization that directly supports technology
transfer and commercialization of advanced gas cooling equipment
to create a greater role for natural gas in the American energy
market. To order the Guide, contact Karima Davis, AGCC, 1515
Wilson Boulevard, Arlington, VA  22209, (703) 841-8410.

The Electric Power Research Institute (EPRI), founded in 1972,
manages technical research and development programs for the U.S.
electric utility industry to improve power production,
distribution and use. Some 700 utilities are members of the
institute. EPRI operates a customer assistance center, which
provides technical information to end-users of electric-powered
equipment. To reach the hotline, call 1-800-766-3774.

The Institute for Energy and Environmental Research (IEER) has
published a book which discusses the causes of ozone depletion,
the possible consequences and policies for the restoration of the
ozone layer.  Mending the Ozone Hole (250 pp.), by Arjun
Makhijani, Ph. D., and Kevin Gurney, is available for $25 from
IEER, 6935 Laurel Avenue, Takoma Park, MD 20912, (301) 270-5500.
From: kron@ueshiba.Corp.Sun.COM (Kenneth Kron)
Newsgroups: sci.energy
Subject: Gyroscopic effect of flywheels in batteries
Date: 22 Dec 92 22:58:33 GMT
Reply-To: kron@ueshiba.Corp.Sun.COM
Organization: Sun Microsystems, Inc.
NNTP-Posting-Host: ueshiba.corp.sun.com

They'll use pairs of flywheels spinning in reverse directions.

---
kron@mentor.sun.com
'Whatever you can do, or dream you can, begin it.  Boldness
has genius, power and magic in it.'  -  Goethe