HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: alizard@drc.UUCP (alizard)
Newsgroups: alt.pagan
Subject: OFFICIAL COMPUSERVE POLICY ON USENET POSTS FROM COMPUSERVE
Date: Mon, 07 Sep 92 13:31:52 PDT
Organization: BLa Bla Bla Bla Bla BLa BLa Concord,Ca

Date: 02 Sep 92 17:02:06 EDT From: "Jim Schaffranek [CSCS]"
<boo!seeker!uunet!CompuServe.COM!70006.121>
To: James Perry <drc!alizard>
Subject: CompuServe Mail
 
All messages sent and recieved by members of CompuServe are
confidential to those members, and any attempt to block messages
is considered censorship.  CompuServe will not censor any
messages, whether they be mail messages to other members, or
messages to people on other systems.
 
The messages are being posted by a daemon at Berkeley, therefore,
anyone using an email system which interfaces with the Internet
email system has access to it.  Our system has no interface into
Usenet, only email.
 
One last note, in the 12 days since my address was posted on
Usenet, I have received 0 complaints from any other people.  The
global kill file has worked quite well for me when reading news,
you might want to learn how to use it.
 
 Jim.
 
PS.  Please do not call our Customer Service number.  That line
is for supporting CompuServe members only.
 
 
 
======================= end of quote ==========================

In other words, if someone gets an accountmpuserve
and uses it to post a meg of extracts from alt.sex.bondage
and GIFs of bestiality onto  the Xtian newsgroups, Compuserve
takes no responsibilites for the actions of its users. At all.

The only other comment I'll add is that this lack of interest
probably only applies to what Christia do, and if a pagan
or member of a minority religion did post a meg onto 
altn.christianity, that CompuServe probably would
take action. In which case t/
40
take action. In which case that person could sue for religious
discrimination.

Well, Chris can be unplugged at root at his gateway... which
at least ought to be disturbed to find that one of its user
systems DOES not care what its users do on the network...

A better question is what a system (and let's face it. On line
services are simply super bulletin boards) that will not exert
any form of control over its users is doing hooked up to ANY

lo Internet.

let alone Internet. But this is a discussion better suited for
somewhere else.

BLESSINGS...
alizard
reply to
A.Lizard can be reached via E-Mail at
main addresses:     (WizardClan)
VirtualNET 86@5103  WWIVnet 86@5077  WWIVLink 86@15050  ICEnet 86@5077
Fido-Net:
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alternate addresses:
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Internet:
  alizard@tweekco.uucp                 boo!tweekco!alizard@PacBell.COM
  [uunet]!pacbell!boo!tweekco!alizard
My Internet addresses can be accessed from Compuserve, MCI, Bitnet,
AppleLink, Tymenet, Sprintmail, America On Line, and virtually
all other major online services except Prodigy. See your user
documentation or contact your system operator or Customer
Service.
Newsgroups: alt.pagan
From: aaldrich@encore.com (Al Aldrich)
Subject: Re: Men's Mysteries
Organization: Encore Computer Corporation
Distribution: na
Date: Thu, 10 Sep 1992 12:21:09 GMT

cortese@skid.ps.uci.edu (Janis Maria Cortese) writes:
>>Bring back that ceremony or creating a new one would go a long way toward
>>helping solve many of our problems.

>Don't say that unless you WANT to have your foreskin removed at puberty;
>this was central to bar mitzvah until recent history.  

>A problem with a lot of male rites of passage in various cultures IMHO
>is that they all have to do with bearing pain stoically, and men still
>relate to one another like that; you've all heard the bar banter where a
>bunch of guys trade insults and try to act like they aren't fazed.
>You've all heard the "Boys don't cry" bullshit we feed our little boys.
>I think men could use a rite of some sort that doesn't use pain as a
>means to prove oneself. 

Yes..I have been struggling with that one myself. All of the `men's movement'
kind of mytho-poetic authors and such talk about this lack of passage rites
and seem to me to continously point to tribal cultures as examples where
those rites do exist..problem being , as Janis points out, they all seem to
contain some element of bodily disfigurement or mental terror to make a
boy a `man'. On the other hand, it is often pointed out as well that the
passage rites are typically conducted by male mentors whose function in the
community is this. For myself, I have started to develop with my closest male
friends an idea of mentoring each other's kids . We have a couple of years
to go since all of our kids are still < 10, but I think by the time
they get to the age of transition ( whatever that is ), that we will have
developed the idea enough to conduct some sort of passage rite that we feel
is appropriate. Who knows, maybe our kids will pass it down and a tradition
will develop. Certainly, I do not think that the ritual should convey any
kind of sense of how much pain one can bear either physically or emotionally,
but I do feel it should have a purpose of education. Hopefully, we have
already ingrained in them by this point that being a man does not mean being
the meanest, toughest, aggressive person that the dominator model would
have us believe. I would prefer it to be a message teaching the meaning of
independence, responsibility, and kindness, as well as the importance of
finding and exploring the significance of spirituality and the connectedness
of the universe into which they were born. BTW..who has ideas on if there
IS an age that is appropriate for this sort of transition message.

Blessed Be
/al

>Blessings,
>Janis  



-- 
Al Aldrich	inet:aaldrich@encore.com
"..if you understood everything I said, you'd be me." miles davis
----------------------------------------------------------------------
MY opinions are not to be construed as those of my employer.
Newsgroups: alt.pagan
From: shaman@mentor.cc.purdue.edu (David Melton)
Subject: Samhain gathering
Organization: Purdue University Computing Center
Date: Tue, 15 Sep 1992 03:10:57 GMT

	Attention: Samhain Gathering in Indiana.
	   This gathering will be held Sat. 31 Oct. and Sun 1 Nov. 
	   at a State park in north central IN. There will be storytelling
	   and a Sat. PM ritual, rather general pagan oriented.  Also there
	   will be workshops offered on divination, the magical voice, and
	   Samhain traditions, plus others.

        Cost: $5 per person, in advance, to cover the cost of the campground.
 	   We only have space for 80 people, so respond by E-mail ASAP.
	   We will need everyone to pre-pay so that we can have the site
	   paid for by the time everyone arrives.

	What to bring:  Food for the weekend, something to donate to the
	   Feast of the Dead, and cold weather camping gear.  There are 
	   unheated cabins with cots available, so tents are not necessary.
	   There are no showers on the site, but pit toilets are near the
	   cabins.

	The site is about 5 hours drive from St. Louis, near Winimac IN.
	   2 hours from Chicago, and 3-4 hours from Dayton OH.

	If you're hooked on the idea, send a check or money order made out
	   to Hourglass Church, PO Box 5796, Lafayette, IN 47903-5796.
	   Include your name, Phone #, and any ideas you might have for
	   workshops.

	No reservations will be accepted after 15 Oct, so plan early.

========  
 I(  )I     David A. Melton                      
 I \/ I     shaman@mentor.cc.purdue.edu                                        
 I /\ I     Priest, Our Lady of the Hourglass Wiccan Church  
 I(  )I     Blest be thee and thine!
========
-- 
========  
 I(  )I     David A. Melton                      
 I \/ I     shaman@mentor.cc.purdue.edu                                        
 I /\ I     Priest, Our Lady of the Hourglass Wiccan Church  
Newsgroups: alt.pagan,talk.politics.guns
From: andy@SAIL.Stanford.EDU (Andy Freeman)
Subject: Re: pagan self-defense
Followup-To: talk.politics.guns
Organization: Computer Science Department,  Stanford University.
Date: Mon, 14 Sep 1992 19:31:40 GMT

>Keeping a gun for self defense is almost always counterproductive.  You
>increase the likelihood of armed confrontation by preparing for it.  This
>is not some spiritual insight, this is based on readily availible data.

Wrong.

>It is seven times more likely that someone in a household where a gun is
>owned will be shot by that gun than by the gun of an extra-household
>assailant.

So?  The value of a gun for self-defense is not measured by the number
of criminals killed, it is measured by the number of lives saved.  (My
police department hasn't killed anyone for years, but has saved
several lives.)  In other words, this "statistic" doesn't honestly
measure benefits.

It also doesn't honestly measure costs.  Most women who kill their
partners do so in legit defense of themselves or their children and
women who kill men have to use either weapons or surprise.  (Surprise
isn't an issue in self-defense; the attacker knows that the attack is
happening.)  Those are legit self-defense killings, yet the statistic
calls them a cost because the attacker knew the defender.

It also implies that such events are random; they're not.  People who
kill in the US have a history of violence.  Those of us who won't live
with violent people aren't at risk from violent people we live with.

>More than half of the murders committed in this country are
>the result of domestic disputes.

So?  Thugs have family and friends too.  Is it really surprising that
they attack the people most likely to provide an "excuse"?

-andy
--
UUCP:    {arpa gateways, sun, decwrl, uunet, rutgers}!cs.stanford.edu!andy
ARPA:    andy@cs.stanford.edu
From: wolfe@wolves.uucp (G. Wolfe Woodbury)
Newsgroups: alt.pagan
Subject: Fount of Esoteric Knowledge
Date: 9 Sep 92 23:19:04 GMT
Reply-To: wolfe@wolves.durham.nc.us
Followup-To: alt.pagan
Organization: Red Wolfe @ The Wolves Den
X-Md4-Signature: 291fc0f761bbffb0559e2a5a2414b9fa

A few of our threads lately have been discussions of the origins of the
rituals and myths and knowledge that makes up our traditions.

Back in the beginning of the group, someone posted about an incident
where they, as a non-pagan, showed the "pentagram in the core of the
apple" to a pagan friend, who abreacted quite badly, screaming at her
for "revealing" sacred hidden knowledge.

We spend hours and kilobytes bemoaning the loss of the true forms and
words of the ancient traditions and religions.

Consider, for a moment, where the knowledge came from in the first
place!   The "secrets" of nature are there to be found by anyone with
eyes and a mind to appreciate them.  The rituals are there to be
rediscovered by anyone with the empathy and self-awareness to realize
that "doing thus and so" results in "such and such" happening in their
psyche or in their perceptions of the world.

One of the "elders" of my acquaintance, when asked where he gets the
ideas and forms he uses in his rituals, says:  "I practice my religion
the same way my paleolithic ancestors did.... I make it up as I go
along!"

Having realized that I was halfway decent as a "teacher" a few months
ago (with thanks to support from the folks here!)  I decided that the
easy thing to do was to teach the students how to learn what they needed
for themselves, by observation and creative thinking.  (Yeah, that is
the *easy* way, right! :-)

Fortunately, the folks who are interested in exploring the pagan
religions are generally of a mindset that is already inquisitive and
tuned to actually seeing the world around them.  It becomes more a
matter of adjusting the models they use and teaching them to not
overlook *anything* in their search for personal meaning.

The "old knowledge" came from somewhere, and where it came from it is
still there, waiting to be found anew by those who have the heart to
seek it out and recognize it.
-- 
G. Wolfe Woodbury @ The Wolves Den UNIX, Durham NC         [use the maps!]
UUCP: ...dukcds!wolves!wolfe   ...duke!wolves!wolfe    <Standard disclaimers>
Domain: wolfe%wolves@cs.duke.edu    wolfe@cds.duke.edu
    Above all, we celebrate.   Celebrate the Circle Statement of Purpose
Newsgroups: alt.pagan
From: altheimm@nextnet.csus.edu (Murray Altheim)
Subject: Re: Canada (was: Re: Freedom of Religion as well as everything else)
Organization: California State University Sacramento
Date: Sat, 5 Sep 1992 01:32:15 GMT

In article <1992Sep4.072953.16293@u.washington.edu> mimir@milton.u.washington.edu (Al Billings) writes:
>In article <1992Sep4.041057.13459@sfu.ca> guay@fraser.sfu.ca (Tim Guay) writes:
>>
>>3. You don't have to mortgage your house if you break a leg. Contrary to
>>   anti-medicare propaganda by your right wing, our system works. A few
>>   years back I had to have major reconstructive surgury on my jaw. This
>>   required a six-hour operation and 9 days in hospital. The total cost to
>>   me was CDN $36 (about US $32) adminstration fee for my hospital bed. Yes
>>   you read right! MSP payments are not that bad and if you're poor they are
>>   subsidised. When I was a student I paid the token amount of a $1 a year.
>>   (milage may vary by provence). BTW My provence's (B.C.) MSP charges family
>>   rates to gay/lesbian couples. 
>
> But you can die waiting for medical care due to the Socialized nature of
>it. There was an article in the Seattle Times about it this week. A
>patient that NEEDED to have heart surgery immediatly was seeing a doctor
>through a friend here in the States. The doctor called the patient's
>doctor in Canada and was informed that they might be able to get to him in
>a few weeks (or it might have been months, I can't remember). The American
>doctor askes the Canadian doctor if people ever died because of the waits,
>and the Canadian doctor told him "All the time."
>
>Wassail,
>Grendel

Bullshit.

When you can't recognize some blatantly anti-socialist propaganda
promulgated by the American press, remember that in 1977 the CIA had
a _documented_ number of people working from their budget in the 
New York times. Now? Who knows?

Sources of media are suspect, as is anecdotal information.  My mother
always seems to be able to pull some example of some friend of hers who
died while eating marshmallows or was electrocuted by a flashlight. As
a Canadian, I know the Canadian government is certainly not without 
flaws, but they are nowhere near as oppressive as here in the US.

The conservatives in this country have a vested interest in keeping
health care privatized, as does the medical lobby whose soaring rates
would be held in check by a public system. Do you really think you'll
hear an objective view of any subject by its opponents, including those
in Canada?

Murray

BTW, Janis, if I ever move back to Canada, we'll keep in touch, OK? I
don't know how much help I can be, but all my relatives (outside of my
immediate family) are up north.

-- 
Murray M. Altheim      "Ils ont l'orteil de Bouc, & d'un Chevreil l'oreille,
Instructional Consultant    La corne d'un Chamois, & la face vermeille
CSU, Sacramento          Comme un rouge Croissant: & dancent toute nuict
altheimm@csus.edu       Dedans un carrefour, ou pres d'une eau qui bruict."
Newsgroups: alt.pagan
From: ba@mrcnext.cso.uiuc.edu (B.A. Davis-Howe)
Subject: Re: How many ______ does it take to change a light bulb?
Organization: University of Illinois at Urbana
Date: Sun, 6 Sep 1992 23:21:16 GMT


All but the Gardnerian one of these, and the one which picks on me, are the 
creations of my Sick Sense.

How many Gardnerians does it take to change a lightbulb?
I can't tell you--it's a Craft secret.

...Alexandrians...
Two, one to do it, and the High Priestess to tell him to.

...Seax-Wiccans...
"Does it say anything about that in _The Tree_?"

...Feminist Eclectic Witches...
"We haven't reached consensus on the environmental impact of lightbulbs yet!"

...people at a ritual run by Bran...
One to light the altar candles; one to light the East candle; one to light the
South candle; one to light the West candle; one to light the North candle; one
to light the Lady candle; one to light the Lord candle...at that point, who
needs a lightbulb?


              Merry meet, merry part, merry meet again,
                               Br'anArthur

Queer, Peculiar, and Wyrd! :-)

******************************************************************************
Newage is hypoallergenic spirituality--
it's for people who are allergic to the word religion.
                                   --Jon Jay Obermark
Newsgroups: alt.pagan,alt.individualism
From: lib1p@rosie.uh.edu (Tammy Stark Blandino)
Subject: The lord of the dance
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41    
Organization: University of Houston
Date: Mon, 14 Sep 1992 23:43:00 GMT

Could someone e-mail me the *COMPLETE* pagan version of
The Lord of the Dance.

thanks

Tammy
lib1p@jetson.uh.edu
From: hnewstrom@hnewstrom.ess.harris.com (Harvey Newstrom)
Newsgroups: alt.pagan
Subject: Re: Men's Mysteries
Date: 9 Sep 92 20:42:13 GMT
Organization: Harris Electronic Systems

In article <6g9TqB8w165w@brewich.hou.tx.us>, morgan@brewich.hou.tx.us (Morgan ap Rhys) writes:
> 
> Men's mysteries can be every bit as significant as women's mysteries.
> True, they have the mystery of childbirth...

I see a balance between God and Goddess or Men and Women.  It takes two
parents to create a child, one of each sex.  For anyone to give more credit
to one sex is sexist.  To speak in mythological terms of God and Goddess, sure
the Mother Goddess created the child God.  Without the Mother Goddess, there
would be no child God.  But who created the Mother Goddess?  The Father God
created the Mother Goddess out of the Maiden Goddess.  Without the Father God,
the Maiden Goddess would never have become the Mother Goddess.

The Father God transforms the Maiden into the Mother.  The Mother transforms
the Father God's seed into the child God.  The child God grows up and leaves, 
transforming the Mother Goddess into the Crone Goddess.  He meets the maiden
Goddess who transforms him into the Lover, no longer a child. . .

The cycle continues forever, as two strands of DNA winding about each other, 
continually creating and recreating the next generation.
Newsgroups: alt.pagan
From: ba@mrcnext.cso.uiuc.edu (B.A. Davis-Howe)
Subject: Coming out of the broom closet <was: Re: books for new pagans>
Organization: University of Illinois at Urbana
Date: Sat, 5 Sep 1992 15:05:55 GMT

st923058@pip.cc.brandeis.edu (Rosaleen Dhu) writes:

>I have been reading, with great interest, the postings concerning reading
>lists for pagans. Although I haven't read any of the books mentioned
>except "The Spiral Dance" and "Drawing Down The Moon", I'll look for the
>other ones. My problem is that I am eighteen years old and have recently
>informed my parents that I have been Wiccan for over a year. Now they want a
>book about it to read so they can decide whether or not they are going to
>disown me. (I HOPE I'm only joking...) Does anyone have any suggestions,
>either for books of the parentally readable type or for a good explanation
>I can give them?

Well, unfortunately, there aint much out there that isn't written for those
who actually want to be Witches.  The one book I know of which is for general
information is _The Truth About Witchcraft Today_ by Scott Cunningham.  I think
that the book is way fluffy--major sweetness and light, no balance of the dark--
but it does give the basic info.  If your parents are readers, I would offer
them _The Spiral Dance_ or _Drawing Down the Moon_.  They will know then that
they aren't getting a sanitised version of the Craft.  One thing I would show
them right away is the Charge of the Goddess.  (It's the very first thing in
chapter five of _SD_--yes, I know _SD_ down to chapters, I'm working on verses.)

You might also offer them the chance to write down questions which you could
put on the net for more experienced Witches to answer, if the books don't give
them the perspective they are looking for.  The best thing would be if you
could introduce them to an experienced Witch who has hir life together who
can show them that Wicca is not a warping influence.

Good luck!


              Merry meet, merry part, merry meet again,
                               Br'anArthur

Queer, Peculiar, and Wyrd! :-)

******************************************************************************
Newage is hypoallergenic spirituality--
it's for people who are allergic to the word religion.
                                   --Jon Jay Obermark
From: morgan@brewich.hou.tx.us (Morgan ap Rhys)
Newsgroups: alt.pagan
Subject: pagan self-defense
Date: Wed, 09 Sep 92 09:36:20 CDT
Organization: The Brewer's Witch BBS, +1 713 272 7350, Brewich.Hou.TX.US

Guns and children can mix.  Simply put, whenever Junior becomes old 
enough to be dangerous, take the gun out, show it to him/her, explain the 
difference between fantasy (TV, movies) and reality to them... take them 
to a range and let them see what the gun can do to a target.  And don't 
do this just once, and hope it sticks.  Reinforce it... My two girls are 
going to learn target shooting as soon as they are old enough.  They are 
ages 6 and 7 and have already been exposed to guns and a target range.  
They have a better idea about guns and such now... they KNOW that guns 
can hurt people... and they KNOW the punishments they will have to face 
if they touch the guns.  We routinely keep loaded weapons in our home and 
automobile.  We live in Houston, a very high-crime city. 
 
No, I am NOT forced to have a gun in the house... I CHOOSE to.  I also 
carry on my person at any given time, one or two blades and have had 
training in their use, as well as some martial arts training.  My oldest 
has expressed an interest in pursuing Martial Arts training as well.
 
It is our RESPONSIBILITY to defend ourselves and our loved ones... we 
will NEVER live in a perfect world where everyone loves everyone else and 
as long as that is true, we might have to defend ourselves.  Espcially 
since we follow a faith that, because of societal influences, is 
unpopular with many...  I have seen on the CULT_WATCH fidonet echo (I 
believe... it may have been another echo) a post by someone who honestly 
believes that the bible verse "Thou shalt not suffer a witch to live" is 
a straight commandment from god and that it is a christians' duty to 
follow this commandment.  
 
As for the hollow point ammo... for in home defense, I'd favor Glaser 
safety slugs.  If you miss, they will not go through sheet rock to hit 
something on the other side.. but they WILL do serious damage to your 
target.  
 
Morgan


------------------
morgan@brewich.hou.tx.us (Morgan ap Rhys)
(Alternate) morgan%brewich@lobster.hou.tx.us
Origin: The Brewer's Witch BBS -- Houston, TX -- +1 713 272 7350
     "Silence is the voice of complicity" - Vote Early, Vote Often!
Newsgroups: alt.pagan,talk.politics.guns