HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: chandy@marais.inria.fr (Chandra SHEKHAR)
Newsgroups: rec.food.veg
Subject: Re: I love red meat! I love sugar!
Date: 13 Aug 92 09:35:00 GMT
Organization: INRIA, Sophia-Antipolis (Fr)

In article <1992Aug12.164113.21981@csrd.uiuc.edu>, saarinen@sp1.csrd.uiuc.edu
(Sirpa Saarinen) writes:
|> chandy@marais.inria.fr (Chandra SHEKHAR) writes:
......
|> >for the abstract goal of being "healthy". You have got to
|> >realize the prize you pay for unhealthy habits.

Whoops, that should have been "price", not prize.

|> Is it so that every meal might contribute to the fat in the arteries and 
|> do also *slim* people have this problem? I.e. can you be slim *and* get 
|> clogged arteries? I have often thought about this, since people around me 
|> (in my office) eat hamburgers and junk food and still stay slim. Do their 
|> arteries also clog or not? Or is it a very long term thing?

I don't have the answer to this one, but one thing that strikes
me is that different people react in different ways to the same
diet. A lifelong near-vegan diet does not guarantee a healthy
heart --- I know this from personal experience. I have had high
cholesterol and triglycerides for several years, in spite of
an extremely low-fat diet. And I know some people who have
eaten red meat every single day of their lives, and have lower
cholesterol than me. It just seems that some of us are more
susceptible to heart disease than others.

|> 
|> thanks,
|> Sirpa Saarinen
|> saarinen@csrd.uiuc.edu

Chandy
Newsgroups: rec.food.veg
From: JFRAWLEY@SUVM.SYR.EDU (Judy Thomas Frawley)
Subject: Butter vs. Margarine - Discussion
Organization: Syracuse University
Date: Fri, 14 Aug 92 12:34:11 EDT

Regarding the discussion of butter vs. margarine, I thought the
following might be interesting.  Source is "Controlling Your Fat
Tooth" by Joseph and Bernie Piscatella.
 
Begin quote
 
Butter: 100% fat
 
What more can be said? When you use butter as a spread, as a sauce
or in cooking, you are adding fat and concentrated calories. A single
pat is 36 calories and 4 grams of fat; a tablespoon has 100 calories
and 11 grams of fat.  At 22.5 grams of fat per ounce, butter is fatter
than spareribs!  In addition, 63% of the fat in butter is saturated,
making it worse than palm oil or lard for cardiac health.  Butter is
an insidious product.  A dab here, a pat there-it doesn't seem like
much.  But it doesn't take much to wreck your fat budget.  The best
advice concerning butter is simple.  Avoid it
 
   At first glance, margarine made from polyunsaturated fat
such as corn oil or safflower oil looks like a better choice than
butter, but this may not be so.  Soft, tub-typemargarine does
containe less saturated fat than butter, so it's preferable from
a cardiac standpoint.  But stick margarine, hardened by a process
known as hydrogenation, containes trans fatty acids.  New research
shows that these acids work like saturated fat in raising blood
cholesterol.  Diet margarine is lighter (it contains more water
than regular margarine) and ounce for ounce can save you half
the calories of butter or regular margarine.  Like whipped
butter, however, it's stil a source of concentrated calories
and should be eaten judiciously.
 
   Cardiac health aside, the true issue here is fat-and
margarine, like butter, is 100% fat.  Melt a pat on your
baked potato, and you'll still use 4 grams of fat from your
budget.  Like butter, margarine should be avoided or
severely limited.
 
   End Quote
 
Please remember - I did not write this, so if you wanna flame,
                  direct it towards the article and not me :-)
 Judy Frawley
 
 *********************************************************
  Judy Frawley, Client Services, 120 Hinds Hall, 443-3160
 *********************************************************
Newsgroups: rec.food.veg
From: dyer@spdcc.com (Steve Dyer)
Subject: Re: Fasting and Working Out?
Organization: S.P. Dyer Computer Consulting, Cambridge MA
Date: Mon, 17 Aug 1992 07:08:00 GMT

In article <IeXo3yK00VAy8X32Fc@andrew.cmu.edu> dm3o+@andrew.cmu.edu (David F. McWade) writes:
>>>I'm a vegan who works out with weights.  Is it possible to fast without
>>>being at risk of losing muscle mass?  I usually eat a lot of calories
>>>every day.
>
>>The answer is a definite no.  Fasting brings with it an inevitable
>>loss in lean body mass, and the only way to counteract that is
>>by ingesting sufficient carbohydrate and protein, which wouldn't
>>be a fast.  There is no point in even trying to fast if you don't
>>need to lose weight, and even that is a poor way to go about it.
>
>Are you familiar with fasting?

Yes, in its common usage.  Fasting means no food.

>The whole point of fasting (with fruits
>and fruit juices, for a few days) is to clean out the body of toxins,
>not to lose weight.

What toxins?  You're describing a spiritual phenomenon, not a physiological
one.  Your body doesn't store "toxins", and it doesn't flush 'em out by
eating only fruits.  But in any case, a fruit/fruit juice diet won't be quite
as stressful on your body as a water/electrolyte-only fast, because
you're consuming some carbohydrate calories.  This will also reduce your
level of ketosis a bit, though I'd imagine that you still might
get to some degree of ketosis because your caloric intake will still likely
be low.

>I'm still wondering if losing weight is a by-product of this.

You will lose lean body mass if you don't take in adequate protein.
Period.  Fruits and fruit juices are not significant sources of protein.
And also, unless you're going to eat tremendous amounts of fruits and
juices, it's likely that you'll get into a calorie deficit as well,
which would imply some overall weight loss.

In someone who isn't focused on working out and muscular development,
the loss of lean body mass shouldn't be significant and probably would
be replaced readily, if the fast didn't last too long.  It seems counter-
productive to me if your aim is to maximize your muscular development.


-- 
Steve Dyer
dyer@ursa-major.spdcc.com aka {ima,harvard,rayssd,linus,m2c}!spdcc!dyer
From: jane@soave.swdc.stratus.com (Jane Beckman)
Newsgroups: rec.food.veg
Subject: Re: Dr. Bronner
Date: 19 Aug 92 23:26:49 GMT
Organization: Stratus Computer, Inc., San Jose, CA

In article <1992Aug14.213025.2422@silma.com> sj@silma.com (Suzanne) writes:
>Dr. Bronner is a concentration camp survivor.
>He went insane there.
>
>This info is from my uncle who used to run a natural
>foods store and had occasion to deal with Dr. Bronner.

I went to a lecture he gave, back in the '70's.  Fascinating
guy, nutty as a fruitcake, and probably would get along
hanging out on alt.conspiracy, but fascinating and
entertaining, nonetheless.

He was an inventor and "master chemist" in prewar Germany.
He's also something like a nephew of Albert Einstein.  Since
the War, he devoted himself to natural foods, wholistic health
ideas, and preaching his "All-one-god-Essene-ministry."  He
claimed to be an Essene rabbi, and to have been persecuted
and declared insane because of this.

But wow, get him talking about food and inventions, and he
really lights up.  So what if he's crazy?  (I think he may be
dead by now---he wasn't in great shape back in '75.)  He was
quite blind, but accompanied by a voluptuous "companion/nurse"
and didn't seem too hampered by his blindness.  I recall him
talking about natural birth control using reamed-out half
lemons, something some women did in the time before WWII in
Germany, he said.  Had a whole mess of new projects planned.

I loved his wonderful cheese puffs with sea salt, back then.
I still buy his soap.  (The label has been VERY toned down,
since the 1970's!)
--
  Jilara   [jane@swdc.stratus.com]

I've worn high-heeled pointed-toed fashionable shoes for the past 
twenty years, and you ask me about if *getting tattooed* hurt?!
Newsgroups: rec.food.veg
From: traub@btcs.bt.co.uk (Michael Traub)
Subject: Re: cheese
Organization: BT Customer Systems, Brighton, UK
Date: Thu, 20 Aug 1992 07:50:10 GMT

In article <1992Aug19.171802.26238@dcs.glasgow.ac.uk> jack@dcs.glasgow.ac.uk (Jack Campin) writes:
>dm3o+@andrew.cmu.edu (David F. McWade) wrote:
>> Have you tried soycheese?
>
>Urggghhh...  have you tried soap?  I'm not sure I could tell the
>difference...  I think products like this and soymilk are what give
>vegetarians the reputation of being self-flagellating loonies.  The fact
>that they have been technically feasible for a few thousand years and no
>culture has ever adopted them as an item of diet before now ought to tell
>you something...

Soymilk has been in use by a large number of chinese for several centuries.
I severely doubt that they are all self-flagellating loonies.

Try Tofucheese by Redwood for a nice soya cheese.


-- 
Michael Traub
From: ckp2n@faraday.clas.Virginia.EDU (Chris Powell)
Newsgroups: rec.food.veg
Subject: Re: Rec.food.veg's health warning.
Date: 22 Aug 92 20:57:06 GMT
Organization: University of Virginia

dyer@spdcc.com  writes:
> In article <1992Aug22.083228.1669@btcs.bt.co.uk> traub@btcs.bt.co.uk (Michael Traub) writes:
> 
> >In  an  attempt  to  keep  flaming  down  regarding  such individuals their
> >postings  would  simply  be  ignored  except for a small followup directing
> >gentle readers to the health warning.
> 
> Well, if you stopped posting all together the problem would be
> solved rather neatly.
> 
> -- 
> Steve Dyer
> dyer@ursa-major.spdcc.com aka {ima,harvard,rayssd,linus,m2c}!spdcc!dyer

This is the sort of pointless and nasty flaming that Michael
appears to be talking about, Steve.  And while I don't always
agree with Michael's opinions or his style of arguing, if he
stopped posting all together, think of the decrease in available
recipes....

Sarcastically yours,

Chris
Newsgroups: rec.food.veg
From: tara@socrates.umd.edu (Tara McDermott)
Subject: Question about making Quinoa (Eden brand)
Summary: do you or don't you need to rinse it?
Organization: University of Maryland University College
Date: Sat, 22 Aug 1992 15:19:57 GMT

I have been making Quinoa from Eden foods.  I don't have a sieve or a
fine mesh collander, so I never rinse it, which the directions call
for. In every recipe for making quinoa, I've always seens the
directions to rinse it WELL, or else it will taste bitter.  Does it?
When I make it, it doesn't taste bitter at all!  Does Eden pre-wash or
polish their grains maybe?  I'm just wondering if there really IS a
bitter taste that I'm just used to or not... 

Any help anyone?

Tara
-- 
Tara McDermott            "We suggest people take their Food Pyramids,
                            cut off the top and make a Healthy Eating
tara@socrates.umd.edu         Trapezoid."  -Neal Barnard, M.D.
From: traub@btcs.bt.co.uk (Michael Traub)
Newsgroups: rec.food.veg
Subject: A request for recipe posters
Date: 12 Aug 92 12:36:33 GMT
Reply-To: traub@btcs.bt.co.uk
Organization: BT Customer Systems, Brighton, UK

Could I request that all recipe posters put the name of the recipe
at the top of the article? That way one doesn't have to rely on the
"Subject:" line, which is normally deleted when saving articles (yes
I know I can save the headers but that is just a waste of paper).

I am as guilty as everyone else on this so please don't take
this as some kind of reprimand.



-- 
Michael Traub
From: rghoff@bb1t.monsanto.com
Newsgroups: rec.food.veg
Subject: Nutrasweet info
Date: 20 Aug 92 15:46:00 CST
Organization: Monsanto Company, St. Louis, MO


Sorry this took so long (actually, I forgot and then suddenly remembered :-)

I called the folks at Nutrisweet to find out about the question concerning
the origin of the artificial sweetener. 

The amino acids that make up nutrasweet (there are two) are produced by
a fermentation process (similar to yeast or whatever). The previous post 
indicated that one of the amino acids (phenylalinine) was associated with
dairy products, which is true. However, in the case of aspartame, the
raw materials are not derived from an animal source.

For more information you can call one of their dieticians at 
1-800-323-5316 because that's all I know :-).

Rick Hoffman.
From: das@voodoo.boeing.com (Deb Schwartz)
Newsgroups: rec.food.veg
Subject: Speaking of veg fast food....
Date: 13 Aug 92 04:49:21 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: Boeing Graphics project, Bellevue WA

....on my trip last week to Utah, we stopped at a Denny's either in
Idaho or Utah (don't remember which) and one of their specials was a
veggie burger!  Granted, it was ovo-lacto, but it was good (similar to
a Garden Burger, but the waiter said it was made by Kraft!), and it's
a start.  The waiter said that not that many people actually ordered it,
but they were thinking about making it a permanent part of the menu
anyway.  Anyone else seen veg burgers at Denny's?  

Debbie Schwartz // das@voodoo.boeing.com  // or uunet!bcstec!voodoo!das 
Newsgroups: rec.food.veg
From: young@serum.kodak.com
Newsgroups: rec.food.veg
Subject: Re: calcium (was: Tofu, fat and protein)
Date: 21 Aug 92 16:18:17 GMT
Article-I.D.: pixel.1992Aug21.161817.5017
Reply-To: young@serum.kodak.com
Distribution: usa
Organization: Clinical Products Division, Eastman Kodak Company
Originator: young@sasquatch

In article <1992Aug21.142348.25636@news.eng.convex.com> tchrist@convex.COM (Tom Christiansen) writes:
>From the keyboard of abrams@binah.cc.brandeis.edu:
>:For people who don't drink milk, tofu is 
>:a great food.  Especially for women, who need lots of calcium to
>:prevent osteoporosis.  
>
>Could you please document studies correlating calcium intake
>with decreased bone loss?  The only studies I'm aware of
>correlate protein consumption with bone loss: the more protein
>you eat above what you need, the more calcium you piss out,
>because it's leached from your bones to metabolize the protein.

   Anderson, J.J.B.  MED. WORLD NEWS, 3/10/86

   NIH Consensus Conference: Osteoporosis.  JAMA 252(6):799-802, 1984.

   Horowitz, M., et. al.  Effect of calcium supplementation on urinary
	hydroxyproline in osteoporotic postmenopausal women.  AM. J. CLIN. 
	NUTR. 39:857-9, 1984.

   Thalassinos, N.C., et. al.  Calcium balance in osteoporotic patients on
	long-term oral calcium therapy with and without sex hormones.  CLIN.
	SCIENCE 62(2):221-26, 1982.

   Lee, C.J., et. al.  Effects of supplementation of the diets with calcium
	and calcium-rich foods on bone density of elderly females with
	osteoporosis.  AM. J. CLIN. NUTR. 34:819-23, 1981.

   Albanese, A.A., et. al.  Osteoporosis: Effects of calcium.  AM. FAMILY
	PHYSICIAN 18(4): 160-67, 1978.


-Rich Young (These are not Kodak's opinions.)
From: rghoff@bb1t.monsanto.com
Newsgroups: rec.food.veg
Subject: Re: Nutrisweet not vegan??
Date: 19 Aug 92 08:08:25 CST
Organization: Monsanto Company, St. Louis, MO

In article <92231.37692.J024330@LMSC5.IS.LMSC.LOCKHEED.COM>, J024330@LMSC5.IS.LMSC.LOCKHEED.COM writes:
> From: rovel@eng.umd.edu (Amy L. Rovelstad) writes:
> []
>>I just heard from someone that Nutrisweet(TM) uses some milk byproduct, and
>>is therefore not vegan.  Has anyone else heard this?
>>
>>Amy
> 
> 
> The ingredients on my EQUAL packet says:
> 
> Dextrose with maltodextrin, aspartame (NutraSweet brand).  Oops, defining
> a word using the word in the definition. Sorry.
> 
> Chris
> 
I don't know if this will actually answer your utilimate question or not.
But aspartame (nutrisweet) is a synthesized product. I'm not aware if there's
any animal products that are used as a raw material.

I work for Monsanto (who owns nutrisweet), and I'll see if I can find out
what the raw materials are.

I do know that the metabolites (as in: after you eat it) are similar to 
"bananas and milk". but that doesn't mean that the source of the product
was actually derived from a dairy cow.

Like I said, I'll call around and see what I can find out.

Rick Hoffman.
From: Greg_Dawson@mindlink.bc.ca (Greg Dawson)
Newsgroups: rec.food.veg
Subject: Soymilk in coffee... the unsolved mystery
Date: 15 Aug 92 06:04:19 GMT
Organization: MIND LINK! - British Columbia, Canada
Distribution: world

Okay all you chemistry types out there, how about this one:

If I pour a cup of coffee and then add soymilk, it looks all curdled and gross.

BUT...

If I put the soymilk in the cup first, and *then* add the coffee, it looks
fine.


WHY IS THIS?  Please post or email your answers.


Thank you.

Shari Dawson

Newsgroups: rec.food.veg
From: traub@btcs.bt.co.uk (Michael Traub)
Subject: Re: nutrasweet composition
Organization: BT Customer Systems, Brighton, UK
Date: Thu, 20 Aug 1992 07:46:32 GMT

In article <1992Aug18.210742.18440@athena.cs.uga.edu> giber@pollux.cs.uga.edu (Carolyn Giberson) writes:
>
>Nutrasweet's active ingredient is aspartame, a dipeptide formed from
>aspartic acid and phenylalanine -- two amino acids which are present
>in the diet anyway.  I do not think these amino acids are exclusively
>of animal origin (occur naturally in both plants AND animals), so
>a vegan should be able to use the product without a problem.

Maybe you didn't quite express yourself properly here. Just
because vegan alternative exist for some raw materials that does not
make a product vegan. The actual product concerned must be made
without animal materials for the product to be suitable for vegans.



-- 
Michael Traub
Newsgroups: rec.food.veg
From: freshair@iastate.edu (James W Gregory)
Subject: Why doesn't ice cream freeze solid?
Organization: Iowa State University, Ames IA
Date: Sun, 23 Aug 1992 10:37:07 GMT

I've developed a recipe for vegan ice cream using oatmeal milk
(similiar to rice-milk-based Rice Dream).  It's soft and creamy right
after it's prepared, but freezes into a solid block of ice if it is stored in
the freezer.

This has made me wonder--why doesn't "real" ice cream (or any of the
vegan ice creams) freeze up like this?  No matter how long it is
stored in the freezer, store-bought frozen deserts always seem to be
at least "scoopable".  My home-made concoctions always seem to require
an ice pick after a few hours in the freezer!  

Is it the vegetable gums (Xanthum, Carragean, etc.) they add or what?

-Jim
-- 
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Jim Gregory      freshair@iastate.edu    |  "10,000 lemmings can't be wrong"
Dept. of Plant Pathology, ISU (by day)   |          - anonymous
Fresh Aire Delivery Services (by night/weekends)
From: jamesh@castle.ed.ac.uk (James Hammerton)
Newsgroups: rec.food.veg
Subject: Re: Veggie in Oxford...
Date: 20 Aug 92 14:57:02 GMT
Organization: Edinburgh University

Although I can't speak specifically about Oxford, I can comment on
Britain as a whole. Generally speaking, it is pretty easy to find a
restaurant with vegetarian dishes on it. The pizza-chains(Pizzaland &
Pizza Hut) are always handy, many Indian restaurants will have a veggie
selection and even Burger King(I'm not sure about MacDonalds) will have
something. As for other restaurants, I haven't come across a restaurant
that didn't at least come up with a veggie dish when there wasn't one on
the menu for a long time now. 

However you could have some difficulty if you are vegan as veganism is
most definitely not widespread(I judge it to be in a similar state to
the whole idea of vegetarianism about 20-30 yrs ago) and vegan
food(except dishes which lacto vegetarians might ask for anyway) isn't
common in restaurants. Indeed part of the reason for veggie food being
common is because non-veggies have shown a lot of interest in it for
health reasons, so there isn't so much concern about the treatment of
animals involved in the wide availability of veggie food(or the popularity
of vegetarianism that gave rise to it)in the UK.

James
-- 
  James Hammerton,2nd year Computer Science at University of Edinburgh
  Email: jamesh@uk.ac.ed.castle   Or: jh@uk.ac.ed.dcs
From: jon@physics.berkeley.edu (Jonathan Miller)
Newsgroups: rec.food.veg
Subject: Tofu, fat and protein
Date: 20 Aug 92 19:36:07 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: University of California, Berkeley
NNTP-Posting-Host: physics.berkeley.edu
Originator: jon@physics.Berkeley.EDU


Hi everyone. Here's a question to help out a neophyte vegetarian of only
three months.

Just what is the nutritional break-down on tofu? I've been hearing
about how it is high in fat, and I am wondering if I should eat as
much as I do (usually about 1/4 to 1/3 pound a day), especially
because I am trying to lose weight.

On a similar subject, to what extent does excersize and working out
increase the need for protein? I know it is used to build cell structure,
and if one is building muscle I would think the need might increase,
at least somewhat.

My thanks in advance to the vegetarian gurus of the net. My next post
is a tofu recipe, but I'm not sure you want to try it.

------------------------------------------------------------------------
Jon Miller				        jon@physics.berkeley.edu
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Newsgroups: rec.food.veg
From: poirier@bnr.ca (Daniel Poirier)
Subject: Vegan dilemma concerning pancreatic enzymes.
Organization: Bell-Northern Research, Ottawa, Canada
Date: Wed, 19 Aug 1992 12:13:04 GMT


I have been striving to be a vegan for the past 4 months (I use the word
striving, not so much because I miss anything, but because I find it
difficult to even know when animal products are used in something I buy,
or I have trouble locating a source for a vegan alternative). I am now
facing a dilemma of some sort. I was hoping maybe someone out there in
r.f.v. could help.

I'm currently following a digestive system cleansing program, which
basically cleans out the colon (by removing hardened feces matter),
eliminates unwanted micro-organisms, and then re-populates the colon with
the necessary friendly micro-organisms. The program consists of a bunch of
pills, some bentonite, and all kinds of other stuff, mostly of vegetable
origin (of course, the micro-organisms are of micro-organism origin ;-).
The products are all from New Roots Herbal (based in Toronto, Canada, I
think), and so far have done wonders. 

Unfortunately, on the third week of the program, you have to start taking
yet another of their products: pancreatin. I say unfortunately, because I
just realized, looking at the bottle in front of me, that their pancreatin
contains "a pancreatic enzyme concentrate of porcine origin containing
standardized lipase, protesse, and amylase activities". This is a direct
quote, and I assume they made a typo and meant "protease" not "protesse".
This is where my problem stems from: porcine origin. 

I would not hesitate to use drugs from animal origin if there were no
alternative, and if my life or health depended on it. This cleansing
program is definitely enhancing my health so far (and I have barely
scratched the surface yet), but where do I draw the line? How do other
vegans feel about this? Or is there such a thing as a vegan alternative to
this source of lipase, protease, and amylase? I don't know much about
enzymes, so I wouldn't know if enzymes necessarily HAVE to be of animal
origin.

Any comments, suggestions, or encouragement welcome. 
Flames need not apply ;-) 
(I've been careful about saying anthing that may attract flamers, until
now that is, but you never know!)

You can email me directly or post (I do read the group every week day).

Thanks.

-- 
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
 Daniel Poirier  e-mail: Daniel.Poirier@x400gate.bnr.ca  (613)763-5185
    Standard disclaimers... - BNR does not own or share my opinion!
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Newsgroups: rec.food.veg
From: seove@mars.lerc.nasa.gov (ERIC OVERTON)
Subject: Nissan Maxima SE.  good choice?
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41    
Organization: NASA Lewis Research Center
Distribution: usa
Date: 17 Aug 1992 13:32 EDT  


I'm thinking about purchasing a '89 Maxima SE.  Is this 
a good car?

Thanks 

Eric