From: pharvey@mipos3.intel.com (Paul Harvey)
Subject: Re: Faith vs. Reason
Organization: noitazinagromhcS
	<1992Sep4.105815.7329@ac.dal.ca> <Bu2L8v.IBn@nntp-sc.Intel.COM> 
	<1992Sep5.011908.19908@en.ecn.purdue.edu> <adams.715659405@spssig>
Date: Tue, 8 Sep 1992 18:31:28 GMT

muehlhau@en.ecn.purdue.edu (John Muehlhausen) writes:
Burning oneself to prove ones worthiness is foolish suicide that does not
please God AT ALL and if I may say so does not exhibit faith....
There is a big difference between faith and stupidity, and I only apply it
(faith) to one thing: that Jesus Christ is the only mediator between God and
man, and the joy of my life (both now and "after").

In article <adams.715659405@spssig> adams@spss.com (Steve Adams) writes:
<FROM YOUR PERSPECTIVE!
<John, assume for a moment (and this is tough, I know) that you might just
<be wrong.  Assume that they might be right.  Now rethink your comments.
<Not everyone has a western view of life....not everyone values the
<individual.

Right, of course we don't even do it all that well. But the key here is that
some cultures value the tribe or family unit more than the individual. Since
John has proclaimed his slavery to Christ, he clearly does not value the
individual. As to his tribal affiliation, only he would know.

<Not everyone WANTS eternal life!

Hmm. Eternal life. Is that what you want? I don't, but I suspect our 
definitions are different. If offered the tree of knowledge of good and bad,
I would gladly eat, as I do everyday, irregardless of orders. If offered the
tree of eternal life, I would not eat, irregardless of orders. Would that be
called morality? Eternal, that means beyond time, right? Could that
be transcendent of time? I know that I have been created, separated from the
transcendent into that which we call reality. Yet I have only a brief 70 years
or so in this state. Life is but a fleeting moment in time. From the Mahab-
harata; What is the greatest wonder? That humans live everyday as if 
tomorrow will never come, in defiance of the ticking clock of life.

<The ultimate end for this religion *IS* extinction!  Nothingness!  Eternal 
<life is FEARED.

Well, I fear we have many word definition problems. I do not fear eternal life,
I know that it is not an option for those who live right livelyhood. Life
feeds on life and creates death. No death = no life. I have often thought
that assuming the Christian dogma to be correct and one goes to the gate at
death and is quized, the question will be: Here is the tree of eternal life
that you have been searching for, will you eat? How would you answer this
question? It might help to consider the Eastern concept of reincarnation.

<Try reading some far-eastern theology or religious texts.  The Bhagavad
<Gita is not a bad start.  Totally different perspective than our western
<one.

Yes, it is good to get some distance, to journey far. Then you can SEE from
where you came. Monterrey looks quite Edenic from Salinas to the east, but
this view can only be had in Salinas. The best view of San Francisco, the
Babylon of the West, is from Oakland. Separation, distance, journey ...

<In your opinion.  Look at it from THEIR perspective.

I don't think he has the distance to SEE.