From: faruk@bcars6f5.BNR.CA (Faruk od Bosne)
Subject: Re: little lies...
Reply-To: faruk@bnr.ca
Organization: Bell Northern Research, Ottawa, Canada
Date: Tue, 15 Dec 92 05:37:54 GMT

part 2

>In article <Dec.10.04.10.16.1992.366@andromeda.rutgers.edu>
>>faruk@bcars6f5.BNR.CA (Faruk od Bosne) writes:

I am talking here about history ...

>This is precisely illustrating my point: as long as people insist on
>claiming lands and rights on nationalistic and religious basis there
>will be no hope for peace. Our first and foremost rights are human 
>rights. And a second thing, history has been dragged into this war
>just to blind everybody and push them into this nationalist frenzy.
>People today are BLAMED for what somebody else did 50 years ago, 100
>years ago, 1000 or 2000 years ago as if they themselves are guilty.
>No one can say: "Hey, these people 500 years ago made terrible mistakes
>but they also died 500 years ago and today we should know better."
>What I mean is that you can't blame anybody for what their ancestors did,
>only for what they (individually) do.

... and you brought me to relativism. Which people 500 years ago have made
terrible mistakes? You don't know what you are talking about.

>>That's why no non-serbs 
>>want to live together with serbs, and why all those cries for secessions
>>have started. Non-serbs have no choice: freedom or death. It was the hope 
>>of non-serbs of former Yugo that USA and the West will see that.

>Thinking like this is at the root of this war and it was imposed on
>you and many others by propaganda. Dividing people into Serbs and
>non-Serbs or into Muslims and non-Muslim or anything similar is
>preposterous. It is preposterous when some Serbs do it but it is
>no less preposterous when anybody else does it. 

What do you offer? Old Yugo? Yugo is no more. Because its peoples at
least 4 out of 6 decided so. Yugo was the serbian prison of non-serbs.
As it is now Serboslavia for Albanians, Muslims, and other non-serbs. 

>and eventually punished, nations shouldn't. Calling Serbs as a nation
>murderers, chetniks, nazis, etc, is the same as calling Croats a genocidal
>nation etc... 
>When we come back to normal thinking (I hope one day,

... or one day after that day.

>>Third are geographic reasons. Kosovo borders with Albania, while "Krajina" 
>>does not. (That's why serbs militants convulsively keep tiny strip south 
>>of Orasje.) That's precisely what defines the notion of minorities: people 
>>not belonging to the mother nation of the state and whose mother state is 
>>disjoint with the region they live in.

>My arguments are preciselly against making anybody a majority or a
>minority - politically! 

What do you offer? Communism? They had it for 45 years.

>>Fourth are historic reasons. No Bosnian part (see my previous article about 
>>of Bosnia and her borders in this section), have ever belonged to Serbia. 
>>It was rather other way around: Sandzak and Monte-Negro part (around Niksic) 
>>were part of the Bosnian pashadom, given to Milos Obrenovic who helped 
>>Turkish sultan in suppressing Bosnian uprising for independence led by
>>Husein Gradascevic (Dragon of Bosnia). Also, Kosovo before 1918 was never 
>>part of Serbia. Before 1918 Serbia used to have their consulate in Pristina.

>I have already said what I think of using historical arguments - anybody
>can use a period in history most favorable to their "rights". 

Read the second sentence. I said no Bosnian part, have ever belonged to Serbia.

>Instead
>of learning from history in order not to make the same mistakes, everybody
>is claiming historical "rights"! Greeks and Macedonians in this group
>go even to the times of Alexander and Phillip of Macedonia! This dragging
>of the history does not help the actual people today resolve the problem:
>what to do to live in peace and dignity as human beings? 

If Macedonians feel like Greeks, so be it. However seems they do not.

>Faruk.

>All I want to say is that as people Yugoslav (or ex-YU) citizens have been
>thrown against each others, 

No. There is only fight between serbs and non-serbs. Serbs want to ethnically
cleanse Muslims and Croats. 

>devided and conquered by yet unrecognized
>and undefined evil forces which do not deserve to be called by any nation's
>name, since they are destroying and have destroyed indiscriminately 
>may indeed believe so). They are destroying lives of Serbian people in
>Bosnia, Croatia and elswhere, as well in Serbia, as effectively as they
>are doing it to other people. The other criminals who are not of
>the Serbian origin are also very skillfully destroying people - Serbian
>as well as other - but they pretend to have a moral advantage of a victim.

Bla, bla, bla...
You know there is a difference between thinking and .... As Amers say: 
do what you do best.

  With hopes for peace upon you.

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>Ana M. Shane                              voice: (215)-843-2909
>334 Winona St.
>Philadelphia, PA 19144      e-mail: pshane@andromeda.rutgers.edu

Faruk.