HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: rsocia@alberti.cray.com (Rick Socia)
Subject: fdisk with SCSI problem
Organization: Cray Research, Inc.
Date: 28 Dec 92 10:48:18 CST

I booted the SLS 0.98.5 disks, and was in the process of trying to use the
fdisk supplied to create some partitions.  However, when invoked, fdisk
responds with "unable to read /dev/hda".  Does any one know why?

My Adaptec 1542B (3.10) and my Quantum 80MB disk are recognized at boot up.
I do know the the IRQ is set for Adaptec's default value (11?) and not the
default MFM value (?).  any ideas?

-- 

Rick Socia                           Voice: (408) 745-6466
Senior Field Engineer                FAX:   (408) 745-1377
CRAY Research, Inc.                  Home:  (408) xxx-xxxx (Emergency)
894 Ross Drive - Suite 203           Internet: rsocia@renaissance.cray.com
Sunnyvale, CA 94089                  UUCP: uunet!cray!renaissance!rsocia

And Remember:
President Thieu says he'll quit if he doesn't get more than 50% of the
vote.  In a democracy, that's not called quitting.
		-- The Washington Post
Newsgroups: comp.os.mach
From: knee@netcom.com (Mark Lanett)
Subject: Re: How to get Mach; Mach for Mac?
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services  (408 241-9760 guest) 
Date: Thu, 24 Dec 1992 00:52:37 GMT

dswartz@sw.stratus.com (Dan Swartzendruber) writes:

[I wrote]

>> MacMach was a partnership w/ Apple and has a bit of proprietary stuff in it;
>> that was to be covered in the general license. I don't know but imagine that
>> some of it was in the kernal also. I'd be surprised if ANY part of MacMach
>> could be distributed freely.

>Fine, but what does any possible proprietary Apple code have to do with
>requiring an AT&T license?

The agreement you would have signed with CMU would have covered the AT&T and
Apple code. This would have been assuming that you already HAD an AT&T license
and the Apple code would have come for free (but NOT be freely distributable).

AT&T and Apple code in MacMach means it can't be distributed freely.

Apple code, if present in the MachMach kernal would mean that the MacMach
kernal (apart from MacMach as a whole) can't be freely distributed either.

If you want to do Mac and unix stuff at the same time on the same machine, look
into A/UX or MachTen. If you want unix source code to play with, look into
BSDI386 or 386BSD or Linux or the Hurd. If you want a free unix: 386BSD or
Linux or the Hurd again. If you want the source code to a unix on the *Mac*,
well, there is none, you'll need to port BSD 4.4 and the BSD or Mach kernals
(or Linux or the Hurd).

Note that MacMach allowed you to run the MacOS under Mach but then you
were locked out of the unix side (which is why to work with BOTH you need A/UX
or MachTen).

Glossary:
A/UX is Apple's commercial SysV unix.
MachTen is Tenon's commercial Mach+BSD unix.
BSDI386 is BSDI's 386 BSD unix.
386BSD and Linux are free unixes-in-the-works.
Hurd is the GNU's semi-mythical Mach-based better-than-unix, also in the works.

PS. I forgot MtXinu's BSD+Mach unix, commercial, 386, but source is included.

Mark L
Newsgroups: comp.os.mach
From: edwardj@microsoft.com (Edward Jung)
Subject: Re: Mach vs. NT?
Date: 30 Dec 92 09:15:11 GMT
Organization: Strategy Division, Microsoft Corp.

Eirik Lygre writes:

>This is wrong. Cairo is not the same as Windows NT. Cairo is the codename
>for Microsofts next generation user interface. Do not expect to see Cairo
>(or a product of cairo technology) until 1994. Cairo has been showed
>publicly at least once, about 6 weeks back.

This is essentially correct.

What has been reported in the past is that Cairo is the code name
for the next major change to Windows. It involves a UI change and
the adoption of an object-oriented infrastructure, including a
distributed object store and other like services. The UI has been
demoed at the NT developers conference among other places. Though
it is running within Microsoft, the release date quoted in trade
journals is 1994.

>To make a short reference to mach: Microsoft now employes several of the
>former mach-researchers (I believe one of them was leading the mach
>project); these people now work mainly on Cairo, and not on Windows NT.
>It would probably be safe to assume, though, that the do "consultancy
>work" with the NT group -- they do know some microkernel stuff, after
>all.

This is mostly incorrect.

Rick Rashid, formerly of CMU and head of the Mach project, is now
director of research at Microsoft. The research group is working
on a variety of projects, and others from the Mach effort are in
that group as well. Cairo, however, is in Advanced Systems. The
research group contributes to Cairo (and NT) in many ways, but do
not work directly on the products -- consultancy is a good way
of expressing this.

--
Edward Jung, Software Architect     edwardj@microsoft.com
Advanced Systems, Microsoft Corp.
Newsgroups: comp.os.mach
From: knee@netcom.com (Mark Lanett)
Subject: Re: How to get Mach; Mach for Mac?
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services  (408 241-9760 guest) 
Date: Wed, 23 Dec 1992 19:11:09 GMT

chanson@mtlookitthat.chi.il.us (Chris Hanson) writes:
>00bwanderson@leo.bsuvc.bsu.edu (Bruce Anderson) writes:
>] Second, is the OS available for the Macintosh?

>Yes and no.  It's available because CMU (from what I've heard -- some
>of this info's really old and probably has changed) will be releasing
>MacMach with the UNIX emulator and everything free or real cheap.  The
>problem is that it requires an AT&T ****ing source code license because

CMU used BSD 4.3 to build MacMach, which requires an AT&T license. CMU
was planning last summer to release it for $100 on CD to people who had
such licenses (i.e. some .edu and .com sites). It would not be available
to anyone else. They were also working on a BSD 4.4 (AT&T-free) version.

In light of the AT&T-BSDI suite, I believe CMU has scuttled all BSD 4-4-based
work. I don't know what ever happened to the 4.3-based one, but having used
a late beta of it, I can honestly say that nobody is missing anything.

If you want Mach or BSD, go with Tenon's product. It's been well received
by reviewers (not including me) and runs on all Macs. It is also BSD 4.3-based
and I expect the CMU version would have cost as much once licensing was
done. And Tenon's is much better executed (I haven't used it, but have read 
reviews, and I know what CMU's did--or didn't--do).

Mark L
-- 
/* Mark Lanett */
Newsgroups: comp.os.mach
From: wu@cs.columbia.edu (Shyhtsun Wu)
Subject: Mach2.5/i486 with Jumbo 250 MB Tape Drive
Summary: tape drive, device.
Organization: Columbia University Department of Computer Science
Date: Wed, 23 Dec 1992 23:49:44 GMT

I have a Jumbo 250 MB Tape drive, which is connected to the floppy controller.
When I boot up the machine, mach2.5 recongnizes two floppy drives:

     fd0:  Master 1 Slave 0    (/dev/fd0   1  0)
     fd1:  Master 1 Slave 1    (/dev/fd1   1 65),

and both of them are block devices.  I wonder if it is possible to have mach
recognize the tape drive device correctly. Any experience is highly
appreciated. Thanks in advance.

BTW, "fd0" is the 3'5" floppy drive and I do not have the second floppy drive.
-Felix

-- 
-----------------
Shyhtsun Felix Wu      wu@cs.columbia.edu          (212) 939-7086
450 Computer Science Building, Columbia University, NYC, NY 10027
Newsgroups: comp.os.mach
From: jhenshaw@microsoft.com (Jeff Henshaw)
Subject: Re: Mach vs. NT
Date: 22 Dec 92 20:32:21 GMT
Organization: Microsoft Corporation

Newsgroups: comp.os.mach
Subject: Re: Mach vs. NT
Distribution: world
Organization: Microsoft Corporation


In <BzG3Gw.1s6@alsvid.une.edu.au>,
mark@alsvid.une.edu.au (Mark Garrett) writes...

| From article <1992Dec12.000250.14799@microsoft.com>, 
| by jhenshaw@microsoft.com (Jeff Henshaw):
| > 
| > I think it would be safer to say that NT is "loosely based on
| > Mach concepts" since some of the ideas (like a microkernel
| > architecture) carry over.  NT also has a variety of subsystems
|
|	WindowsNT is based on the Mach3.0 micro kernel!!!!!!!!

...

|
|	2. even worse, mach is part of windowsNT 

...

|	1. Go and do some reading before hitting the keyboard with replies
|


I've done some reading.  I've read the sources for
both Mach and NT.

Is there anything else you'd suggest I read before
"hitting the keyboard with replies?"


       ,       |
               |/\
______/| eff__/| / enshaw______________________________
       |/        \/
      /|                         jhenshaw@microsoft.com 
      \|                   not a microsoft spokesperson

Newsgroups: comp.os.mach
From: kbibb@maui.qualcomm.com (Ken Bibb)
Subject: Re: Mach vs. NT
Organization: Qualcomm, Inc., San Diego, CA
Date: Wed, 23 Dec 1992 02:01:43 GMT

In <1992Dec22.203221.20840@microsoft.com> jhenshaw@microsoft.com (Jeff Henshaw) writes:

>Newsgroups: comp.os.mach
>Subject: Re: Mach vs. NT
>Distribution: world
>Organization: Microsoft Corporation


>In <BzG3Gw.1s6@alsvid.une.edu.au>,
>mark@alsvid.une.edu.au (Mark Garrett) writes...

>| From article <1992Dec12.000250.14799@microsoft.com>, 
>| by jhenshaw@microsoft.com (Jeff Henshaw):
>| > 
>| > I think it would be safer to say that NT is "loosely based on
>| > Mach concepts" since some of the ideas (like a microkernel
>| > architecture) carry over.  NT also has a variety of subsystems
>|
>|	WindowsNT is based on the Mach3.0 micro kernel!!!!!!!!

>...

>|
>|	2. even worse, mach is part of windowsNT 

>...

>|	1. Go and do some reading before hitting the keyboard with replies
>|


>I've done some reading.  I've read the sources for
>both Mach and NT.

>Is there anything else you'd suggest I read before
>"hitting the keyboard with replies?"


>       ,       |
>               |/\
>______/| eff__/| / enshaw______________________________
>       |/        \/
>      /|                         jhenshaw@microsoft.com 
>      \|                   not a microsoft spokesperson

I think the original responder assumed that you were completely
incompetent because of the microsoft.com that is tacked on
after your name.  I, for one, find it amazing that *anyone*
at microsoft is capable of reading code...

-- 
Ken Bibb                "he heard the snow falling faintly through the
kbibb@qualcomm.com	 universe and faintly falling, like the descent of
jester@crash.cts.com     their last end, upon all the living and the dead."
				--"The Dead", James Joyce

Newsgroups: comp.os.mach
From: wieck@jwminhh.hanse.de (Jan Wieck)
Subject: Re: MACH I386 + BNRSS: how do you do it without ATT code?
Organization: Private Site under Mach386
X-Newsreader: Tin 1.1 PL4
Date: Fri, 25 Dec 1992 13:10:50 GMT

cperkins@casbah.acns.nwu.edu (Carol Perkins) writes:
: Subject line says it all.  If you have the pieces how do you combine them to
: have a running system?  I DO NOT mean the CMU way.

MtXinu's Mach386 include's 4.3BSD. Even the 3.0 version, which is
available in source, include's the object's for a 4.3BSD server,
running on top of Mach386 3.0.


Until later, Jan

-- 
# Any language keeps its own misunderstandings; #
# why shouldn't programming languages do?       #
#                                               #
#            wieck@jwminhh.hanse.de (Jan Wieck) #
From: dswartz@sw.stratus.com (Dan Swartzendruber)
Newsgroups: comp.os.mach
Subject: Re: How to get Mach; Mach for Mac?
Date: 24 Dec 1992 03:07:42 GMT
Organization: Stratus Computer, Inc.
Distribution: world
NNTP-Posting-Host: redondo.sw.stratus.com

In article <1992Dec24.005237.8069@netcom.com>, knee@netcom.com (Mark Lanett) writes:
> dswartz@sw.stratus.com (Dan Swartzendruber) writes:
> 
> [I wrote]
> 

[deleted]

I guess someone will have to bite the bullet (possibly me if I have time) and do a
port of Mach 3.0 to the Mac and give the to the Linux people (or maybe start some
equivalent group.  Sigh...  I still don't understand why CMU couldn't have written
the drivers and such from scratch, then the 3.0 u-kernel would have been unencumbered.
Oh well, easy for me to say...

> If you want to do Mac and unix stuff at the same time on the same machine, look
> into A/UX or MachTen. If you want unix source code to play with, look into
> BSDI386 or 386BSD or Linux or the Hurd. If you want a free unix: 386BSD or
> Linux or the Hurd again. If you want the source code to a unix on the *Mac*,
> well, there is none, you'll need to port BSD 4.4 and the BSD or Mach kernals
> (or Linux or the Hurd).

Comments:

1. 386BSD - not useful, since I have a Mac.

2. BSDI386 - ditto.

3. Linux - ditto.

4. the Hurd - non-existent (and wouldn't work on the Mac anyway, at least not right away).
   I don't know what the status of this project is.  I haven't heard anything in months.

> Note that MacMach allowed you to run the MacOS under Mach but then you
> were locked out of the unix side (which is why to work with BOTH you need A/UX
> or MachTen).

This I don't understand.  I'm running A/UX now.  It runs on the naked metal and emulates
the Mac desktop via Unix magic.  Why would you "be locked out of the Unix side"?

> Glossary:
> A/UX is Apple's commercial SysV unix.
> MachTen is Tenon's commercial Mach+BSD unix.
> BSDI386 is BSDI's 386 BSD unix.
> 386BSD and Linux are free unixes-in-the-works.
> Hurd is the GNU's semi-mythical Mach-based better-than-unix, also in the works.
> 
> PS. I forgot MtXinu's BSD+Mach unix, commercial, 386, but source is included.

Absolutely not!  At least not without shelling out a lot more money than the
binary license!  I should know, I had mach386 on my PC (before I sold it).  It
was a great product, I could even build and run Mach 3.0 stuff on it.  Unfortunately,
it doesn't run on a Mac.

> Mark L

-- 

#include <std_disclaimer.h>

Dan S.
From: dswartz@sw.stratus.com (Dan Swartzendruber)
Newsgroups: comp.os.mach
Subject: Re: How to get Mach; Mach for Mac?
Date: 23 Dec 1992 19:58:48 GMT
Organization: Stratus Computer, Inc.
Distribution: world
NNTP-Posting-Host: redondo.sw.stratus.com

What I have asked on this newsgroup at least 3 times in the last 6 months
(with no response) is why CMU can't release the micro-kernel only portion
of MacMach (i.e. have it be a machine option like i386, luna88k, etc...)
Admittedly, a micro-kernel only is of limited use, but then you can make
that same argument about all of the other machine types as well.  I would
really appreciate it if *someone* from CMU could explain this...

-- 

#include <std_disclaimer.h>

Dan S.
Newsgroups: comp.os.mach
From: cracauer@wavehh.hanse.de (Martin Cracauer)
Subject: H.to get Mach f. SPARC (was Mach for Mac?)
Organization: Private UUCP, Martin Cracauer, Norderstedt, Germany
Date: Mon, 21 Dec 92 07:53:34 GMT

00bwanderson@leo.bsuvc.bsu.edu writes:

>Hello.  I have a few questions which (in lieu of a FAQ) I think can be answered
>here.  First, how do I get Mach for any platform?  I understand it is at CMU,
>but which address do we need to use to FTP?
>Second, is the OS available for the Macintosh?  If so, which Macs are capable
>us utilising it?  If not, why not? 8^)

Same thing for SPARC: Where to find ?

Could anybody tell somthing about CMU's distribution ?

Thanks
-- 
%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%
Martin Cracauer,    cracauer@wavehh.hanse.de
Waldstrasse 200, W-2000 Norderstedt, Germany
Tel.: +49 / 522 18 29, Fax.: +49 / 522 85 36
Newsgroups: comp.os.mach
Subject: Re: How to get Mach; Mach for Mac?
From: chanson@mtlookitthat.chi.il.us (Chris Hanson)
Date: Fri, 25 Dec 92 18:31:59 CDT
X-Mailer: Fernmail 1.1 (unregistered, shareware fee not paid)

In comp.os.mach article <9212252004.AA10481@apple.com>,
James Hammett <jamesh@apple.com> writes:
> Though, if you port it over in Minix do we need to purchase Minix to use your
> Mach port?
> 
> 
> 					James
> 

No.  [Although to recompile it it would be a good idea.]  Mach uses all
of its own code and doesn't use Minix libraries or facilities at all -
same with the Macintosh stuff (although there'll probably be some
system calls in the bootstrap process like GetMainDevice to find the
screen, etc.).  Otherwise, once the microkernel has the hardware
addresses &such pinned down it doesn't need to run on top of anything.
I've got code from someone else who was doing a MacMinix-on-the-
hardware project to write a minix executable to a floppy and make the
floppy bootable -- I'll probably use this and DiskCopy to distribute
bootable images (I'll also distribute diffs  and the executable itself
of course).  However, I need to get to that stage first :-).  Also, if
you want to use, say, A/UX I don't forsee any problems as long as your
make is CMU-capable and we use the same tools
(linker/compiler/assembler).

Happy XMas & Merry NY,
Chris
---
Chris Hanson -- chanson@mtlookitthat.chi.il.us
"Join the Illuminati and see the world... differently."
 -- SJG GURPS Illuminati manual
From: dswartz@sw.stratus.com (Dan Swartzendruber)
Newsgroups: comp.os.mach
Subject: Mach book?
Date: 28 Dec 92 22:37:14 GMT
Organization: Stratus Computer, Inc.
NNTP-Posting-Host: redondo.sw.stratus.com

What ever happened to the Mach book that was supposed to be out a
while ago?

-- 

#include <std_disclaimer.h>

Dan S.
From: rkou@skat.ucs (Roger H. Kou)
Newsgroups: comp.os.mach
Subject: why do i need a server to run mach?
Date: 27 Dec 1992 01:05:11 -0800
Organization: USC Computing Services, Los Angeles
Distribution: comp
NNTP-Posting-Host: skat.usc.edu


from mdos.install.doc:

   - A  corresponding  version  of  the  4.3  BSD  Unix  Server  at
     least  as  current  as  UX32.


why? can't I just run mach on a 386/486 as a program(i.e., emulating
unix)?

happy holidays and thanks,

-RK
ps: sorry if this is a "bonehead" question. :-)
From: chanson@mtlookitthat.chi.il.us (Chris Hanson)
Newsgroups: comp.os.mach
Subject: re: How to get Mach; Mach for Mac?
Date: 24 Dec 92 00:44:25 GMT
X-Mailer: Fernmail 1.1 (unregistered, shareware fee not paid)

As a followup, I apologize for my flaming.  I still don't like the idea
of using AT&T code -- it grates on me to think that I can't get this
stuff for my Mac simply because I haven't paid AT&T.  I MAY be able to
get BSDSS from someplace that still has it, but the future legality of
it is questionable.  I stand by my ideals, however, and am formulating
my plans right now on how to accomplish this port.  The first stuff I
have to do, though, is hack minix to make it a nicer build environment
for Mach (i.e. >14 char filenames, GNU C compiler, CMU-like Make [enuff
so to use stock makefiles -- don't know how hard that'll be]).  But I
apologize if I offend; I guess I'm just an offensive kinda guy.  Come
to think, one of my (girl)friends got me some cologne for Christmas --
could I even smell offensive :-) :-) :-).  Seriously, I'm sorry, and
Happy Holidays.

TTFN,
Chris
---
Chris Hanson -- chanson@mtlookitthat.chi.il.us
"Join the Illuminati and see the world... differently."
 -- SJG GURPS Illuminati manual
Newsgroups: comp.os.mach
From: knee@netcom.com (Mark Lanett)
Subject: Re: How to get Mach; Mach for Mac?
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services  (408 241-9760 guest) 
Date: Wed, 23 Dec 1992 21:00:00 GMT

dswartz@sw.stratus.com (Dan Swartzendruber) writes:

>What I have asked on this newsgroup at least 3 times in the last 6 months
>(with no response) is why CMU can't release the micro-kernel only portion
>of MacMach (i.e. have it be a machine option like i386, luna88k, etc...)
>Admittedly, a micro-kernel only is of limited use, but then you can make
>that same argument about all of the other machine types as well.  I would
>really appreciate it if *someone* from CMU could explain this...

MacMach was a partnership w/ Apple and has a bit of proprietary stuff in it;
that was to be covered in the general license. I don't know but imagine that
some of it was in the kernal also. I'd be surprised if ANY part of MacMach
could be distributed freely.

Mark L
-- 
/* Mark Lanett */
From: mark@alsvid.une.edu.au (Mark Garrett Internet: mark@arvak.une.edu.au Phone: +61 66 20 3859)
Newsgroups: comp.os.mach
Subject: Re: Mach vs. NT?
Date: 21 Dec 92 08:38:25 GMT
Organization: University of New England - Northern Rivers (Lismore)

> in a speech at the Micro-Kernel Workshop on Monday April, 27 1992. Maybe
> your confusing the Cairo project that Rick Rashid (from CMU, now with
> Microsoft) is currently working on - why don't we speculate on that some
> now....

	I've gone from a very sure puppy to a very confused guppy in just
a few days!!

	So what's this Cairo project? The name rings a bell.


		Mark :)
-- 
Mark Garrett	Internet:  mark@arvak.une.edu.au	Phone: 	+61 66 20 3859
   University of New England, Northern Rivers, Lismore NSW Australia.
Newsgroups: comp.os.mach
From: cperkins@casbah.acns.nwu.edu (Carol Perkins)
Subject: MACH I386 + BNRSS: how do you do it without ATT code?
Organization: Northwestern University, Evanston, Illinois, USA
Date: Wed, 23 Dec 1992 21:11:18 GMT

Subject line says it all.  If you have the pieces how do you combine them to
have a running system?  I DO NOT mean the CMU way.

Thanks,

SC Perkins
Newsgroups: comp.os.mach
From: Anu.Kapoor@launchpad.unc.edu (Anu Kapoor)
Subject: Re: H.to get Mach f. SPARC (was Mach for Mac?)
Organization: University of North Carolina Extended Bulletin Board Service
Date: Tue, 22 Dec 1992 23:18:03 GMT

In article <1992Dec21.075334.3409@wavehh.hanse.de> cracauer@wavehh.hanse.de (Martin Cracauer) writes:
>00bwanderson@leo.bsuvc.bsu.edu writes:
>
>>Hello.  I have a few questions which (in lieu of a FAQ) I think can be answered
>>here.  First, how do I get Mach for any platform?  I understand it is at CMU,
>>but which address do we need to use to FTP?
>>Second, is the OS available for the Macintosh?  If so, which Macs are capable
>>us utilising it?  If not, why not? 8^)
>
>Same thing for SPARC: Where to find ?
>
>Could anybody tell somthing about CMU's distribution ?
>
>Thanks
>-- 
>%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%
>Martin Cracauer,    cracauer@wavehh.hanse.de
>Waldstrasse 200, W-2000 Norderstedt, Germany
>Tel.: +49 / 522 18 29, Fax.: +49 / 522 85 36


I also have a few questions about mach.

I recently read an article in PC Week on what mach basically is and how it
allows multiple os's etc., Now I was wondering what mach would allow me to
do right now? Does mach have an os? Is it just some sort of UNIX running
under the mach microkernal? And more specifically what will KludgeMach or
whatever do for my amiga? If there is anyone out there with any useful
info on these topics, please share with me your knowledge...

Thansk alot in advance.

Cordially,
Anu Kapoor

--
   The opinions expressed are not necessarily those of the University of
     North Carolina at Chapel Hill, the Campus Office for Information
        Technology, or the Experimental Bulletin Board Service.
           internet:  laUNChpad.unc.edu or 152.2.22.80
Newsgroups: comp.os.mach,comp.sys.transputer,comp.parallel
From: dphelps@cbnewsf.cb.att.com (david.j.phelps)
Subject: Parallel OS
Apparently-To: att-mt!comp-parallel
Followup-To: poster
Organization: AT&T
Date: Mon, 21 Dec 1992 15:17:44 GMT


Helo all,

I wonder if anyone out there can help me on the subject of the following
parallel operating systems :

Helios
Chorus
Mach

I am a degree student in England and I need information on these 
operating systems, in particular Inter Process Communication, 
process creation and scheduling. Also any evaluative information
would be very useful. I need the information for a project I am
doing. 

I would be very grateful if anyone could supply me with any
information at all on these operating systems. Could anyone
who replys please reply to the email address at the bottom of this message
as I do not have access to vnews very often.

Thanks in advance,

David Phelps (Cheltenham & Gloucester College of Higher Education)

daphelps@mlsma.att.com

Newsgroups: comp.os.mach