HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: alok@cbnewsi.cb.att.com (alok.vijayvargia)
Subject: Re: Boring! (was the great soc.culture.tamil.debate
Organization: AT&T
Date: Fri, 14 Aug 1992 22:02:35 GMT

In article <10AUG199215030100@vax2.concordia.ca>, dohle@vax2.concordia.ca (Gordon Dohle) writes:
> 
> There are over 3000 newsgroups available on my reader.
> What difference does one more make.
> Get real! If 500 people want to talk, let them.
> 
> 
> Gordon
> Dohle@vax2.Concordia.ca


Mr. Angel, Where were you when I had to fight tooth and nail to keep
another one of the cultural groups from being removed ?

A lot of people wanted that group (soc.culture.indian.american) to
exist as well but it was brutally 'murdered'.

Alok
Newsgroups: news.groups
From: hucke@ux1.cso.uiuc.edu (Matt Hucke)
Subject: Re: This might be an FAQ, but....
Organization: University of Illinois at Urbana-Champaign
Date: Fri, 14 Aug 1992 00:58:44 GMT

In article <ZHNDPB11w165w@bluemoon.rn.com> zaphod@bluemoon.rn.com (Peter Bierman) writes:
>Can anyone suggest the creation of a new newsgroup? How hard is it? I'm 
>interested in a possible "comp.sys.mac.bbs.sysop", for Mac BBS SysOps.

Since comp.bbs.misc is a low traffic group, you could just post there.  No 
one would mind a few extra posts.  
-- 
And now, Deep Thoughts, by Jack Handey:
    If you ever fall off the Sears Tower, go real limp, so people will think
    you're a dummy, and they'll try to catch you, because hey, free dummy!
hucke@ux1.cso.uiuc.edu             _V_a_l_h_a_l_l_a BBS, 217-352-3682, WWIV4.21, 14.4k
Newsgroups: news.groups
From: d-lewart@uiuc.edu (Daniel S. Lewart)
Subject: Re: RFD: comp.graphics.gnuplot
Originator: dslg0849@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu
Reply-To: d-lewart@uiuc.edu (Daniel S. Lewart)
Organization: University of Illinois at Urbana
Date: Fri, 21 Aug 1992 18:10:14 GMT

hendrix@oasys.dt.navy.mil (Dane Hendrix) writes:

> Lets pick a name and have a vote.

jaapjl@tab00.larc.nasa.gov (J Lee Jaap) writes:

> Perhaps a straw poll first to see which people prefer.

Yes, I will run a quick straw preferential poll so we can finally pick
a name and have a vote.  There are three candidates:
	comp.apps.gnuplot
	comp.apps.graphics.gnuplot
	comp.graphics.gnuplot
Of course, write-ins will be counted too.  Please cut out and edit the
section below and email it to me.

Remember email/reply for straw poll and follow-up for continued discussion.

Thank you,
Daniel Lewart
d-lewart@uiuc.edu
----8<--------8<--------8<--------8<--------8<--------8<--------8<--------8<---
My votes for Gnuplot group names (1=favorite, 2=second favorite, ...) are:
1)
2)
3)

My name is
My email address is
----8<--------8<--------8<--------8<--------8<--------8<--------8<--------8<---
From: mike@pencom.com (Mike Heath)
Newsgroups: news.groups
Subject: Re: 2nd RFD: comp.org.aix
Date: 20 Aug 92 21:36:45 GMT
Organization: Pencom Software, Austin, TX

In article <Bt7ps0.3I2@uunet.uu.net> mike@pencom.com (Mike Heath) writes:
>Proposed Charter:  comp.org.aix
>
>The purpose of this group is to discuss issues relating to the International
>AIX-RISC System/6000 User Group.

I see a lot of support for a name change to comp.org.iaug.  The reason 
comp.org.aix was chosen was because of my understanding of the discussions
that took place in the Jan-Feb timeframe.  I was not a part of that
discussion, but had heard that the name comp.org.iaug didn't go over well.

Let me take a straw poll.  Email me with your suggestion for the name
of the newsgroup, and in the middle of next week, I'll post the results.

Mail to:  mike@pencom.com

If that path doesn't work (it should), try:  pensoft!mike@cs.utexas.edu
-- 
Mike Heath		I don't speak for my employer.  My views
Pencom Software		are actually much closer to the truth
Austin, TX		than any company is willing to admit.
mike@pencom.com or pensoft!mike@cs.utexas.edu
Xref: sparky news.groups:16948 rec.motorcycles:27792 rec.motorcycles.dirt:1349 rec.motorcycles.racing:974 alt.motorcycles.harley:677
From: chip@tct.com (Chip Salzenberg)
Subject: Re: 2nd RFD: comp.unix.* reorganization
Date: Mon, 17 Aug 1992 13:20:47 GMT
Organization: TC Telemanagement, Clearwater, FL

According to peter@taronga.com (Peter da Silva):
>And on my part, I'm reconsidering the desirability of the 16-32 split,
>at least initially. Thinking about it, there are going to be more
>differences between BSD and System V drivers than between Interactive
>and Microport-286.

The existence of the first split does not imply that the second split
is unimportant.  The split stands.

It's time for the CFV now...
-- 
Chip Salzenberg at Teltronics/TCT  <chip@tct.com>, <73717.366@compuserve.com>
   "Do Rush place weird subliminal backmasked messages in their songs to
 compel unwilling geeks to commit evil .sig atrocities?"  -- Dean Engelhardt
From: jimlynch@netcom.com (Jim Lynch)
Newsgroups: news.groups
Subject: Re: RFD: several instrument-specific rec.music groups
Date: 21 Aug 92 08:36:12 GMT
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services  (408 241-9760 guest)

Should also be a keyboard group and a horns group.
From: hoey@zogwarg.etl.army.mil (Dan Hoey)
Newsgroups: news.admin.policy,news.groups
Subject: Re: STRAW POLL: changing a moderator
Date: 14 Aug 92 18:03:24 GMT
Followup-To: news.admin.policy
Organization: Naval Research Laboratory, Washington, DC
Supersedes: <1126@zogwarg.etl.army.mil>

jik@athena.mit.edu (Jonathan I. Kamens) writes:

>Those of you who haven't been following the discussion in news.groups
>should know that daemon@desire.wright.edu is very strongly on one
>side....  I am on the other side of the debate, and I therefore chose
>to add these two questions to my response to his poll:

As long as we're adding questions to the poll, well, I had a hard time
responding to the poll at all, since most of the questions seemed to
be aimed at finding out whether I had stopped beating my wife, and why
not.  So here are a couple more questions I found it useful to answer
on my ballot.

[vote]   Kottman chose an obviously biased set of questions to ask.

[vote]   Bias in the questions renders the results of this poll meaningless.

Dan Hoey
Hoey@AIC.NRL.Navy.Mil
From: leveret@spuddy.uucp (Nick Leverton)
Newsgroups: news.groups
Subject: Re: RFD: misc.transit
Date: 12 Aug 92 02:26:57 GMT
Organization: Spuddy's Public Usenet Domain

The name misc.transit suggests a group concerned purely with urban Rapid
Transit schemes, probably rail-based (Light rail - LRT - or monorail ;-)).
I know that some transport authorities are called "So-and-So Transit",
but to my mind in general Transit refers to LRT.

A more general group would cover all forms of public transport,
including buses and so on. I would prefer to see this group rather than
a pure Rapid Transit group, because in a properly planned system these
forms of transport should be complementary. This group could also cover
cycling and pedestrian facilities, because they too are complementary 
to public transport. 

I would not like to see a group which includes private transport, except
insofar as it impinges on the provision, profitability, et cetera, of
public transport. The name misc.transport *does* suggest the inclusion
of private transport. A better name might be misc.public-transport,
although I would admit that that is pretty long to type into your 
newsreader. For this reason only I'd reluctantly accept the name
misc.transport. I wouldn't like misc.transportation because it is almost
as long as misc.public-transport whilst conveying a lot less information.

So my vote, if it came to one, would go for a general public transport group
called misc.public-transport, or else misc.transport as a poor second.
-- 
Nick Leverton.
-- 
<leveret@spuddy> <nleverton@cix.compulink.co.uk> <leveret@warren.demon.co.uk>
        I=NJ/S=Leverton/OU=MDN0402/O=ICL/PRMD=ICL/ADMD=Gold 400/C=GB

 * Meeeeow ! Call Spud the Cat on > +44 203 638780 < for free Usenet access *
Newsgroups: news.groups
From: dave@jato.jpl.nasa.gov (Dave Hayes)
Subject: Re: RFD: several instrument-specific rec.music groups
Reply-To: dave@jato.jpl.nasa.gov
Organization: Jet Propulsion Lab - Pasadena, CA
Date: Fri, 21 Aug 1992 00:08:18 GMT

tinsel@uiuc.edu (Thomas Aaron Insel) writes:

>> rec.music.makers.bass	(not just electric players but string bass too)
>How 'bout rec.music.makers.guitar.bass (Hellish, isn't it), and have
>rec.music.makers.strings for non-guitar string instruments.  (Your
>groups cover everything from pipe-organ to tuba, but leave out most
>of the classical strings -- violin, viola, cello.

Hmmm....I was thinking that the difference between "electric bass" and
"string bass" might not be enough to justify different groups...as for
some musics the techniques and theory are similar. 

Either way. Perhaps you'd do better to do:

rec.music.makers.electric.guitar
rec.music.makers.electric.bass
rec.music.makers.strings

Which is another thought. 

>> rec.music.makers.keys
>This should be .keyboard, to avoid confusion with any aspect of music theory.

Ok. Just as long as a vote goes out for this too. There are some of us
keyboard players on the net that would like to talk about playing.
(And I don't mean a type-4...)

>> rec.music.makers.wind
>I'm not entirely sure there is enough traffic for a winds group.  As a 
>wind player, I watch rec.music.makers sometimes, and see almost no 
>discussion of wind instruments.  Perhaps it occurs elsewhere.

Perhaps it might occur if there was a group there. The point being to 
try and cover most of the general instrument groups, without being
too discriminatory. 
-- 
Dave Hayes - Network & Communications Engineering - JPL / NASA - Pasadena CA
dave@elxr.jpl.nasa.gov       dave@jato.jpl.nasa.gov         ...usc!elroy!dxh

Test  (n.)   - 1. A hardship you don't expect.
Brave (adj.) - 1. Someone looking for a test.
From: ben@bailey.UUCP (Ben Bailey)
Subject: Re: Procedure for changing to unmoderated?
Newsgroups: news.groups
Date: 17 Aug 92 22:43:16 GMT
Distribution: world
Organization: Ben Bailey's Home..Tampa Fl.

Doesn't it strike anyone else as ludicrous(?) that we can have a 
CFV on complete reorganization of comp.unix.*, but haven't the ability
to remove a dead moderator?

Ben
--
Ben Bailey                 ben@bailey.uucp -- bailey!ben@uunet.uu.net
12210 Shady Forest Dr.     ben@bailey.tscs.com
Riverview, Fl. 33569       -- The main thing is to keep the main
813-677-5021                  thing the main thing.  Mainly. 
Newsgroups: news.groups,rec.motorcycles
From: shz@garage.att.com (Keeper of the 'Tude)
Subject: Re: rec.motorcycles.harley vote acknowledgment
Organization: Office of 'Tude Licensing
Date: Fri, 21 Aug 1992 14:31:56 GMT

In article <1992Aug20.165114.1659@ncsu.edu>, steve@bucolix.ncsu.edu (Steve Garnier) writes:
> My attendance at the RCR wasn't necessary, Seth.  I could hear you and 
> your straight pipes all the way from Raleigh.

I was looking forward to meeting you and was very disappointed that you 
didn't come.  Work, school, whatever, there was *no excuse* for you to
miss the RCR when it was so close to you.  Fellow netters are entitled
to see the face behind the posts and I rode 1300 miles (much in the rain)
and missed spending my birthday with my family (which really pissed off
my wife and son) so I wouldn't deny my DoD brethren a chance to meet me.

Those present got to see first hand that my posts genuinely reflect the
person sitting at the keyboard.

Seth
Newsgroups: news.groups
From: mgfrank@avernus.com (Marc G. Frank)
Subject: Re: changing a newsgroup's moderator
Organization: Maryland Appreciation Society, Buffalo, NY
Date: Wed, 12 Aug 1992 09:19:17 GMT


In article <0050F.ar5d6@dragon.enigami.mv.com> cory@enigami.mv.com writes:
[stuff deleted]
>Considering that Kamens' original objections were to the very process
>of *DISCUSSING* the proposed change, I thing that 'censor' is
>accurate.  I note that he has changed his oppinion somewhat, but is
>still against open discussion (e.g. he still thinks that we should
>vote (e.g. ask permission) before we are allowed to formally discuss 
>things).
[more stuff deleted]

The key word in that last sentence is "formally."  Mr. Kamens doesn't
seem to be saying that *no* discussion will be permitted prior to the
straw poll, but that there won't be a *formal RFD* prior to the poll.  I
would hardly call that censorship.

You may well argue that the poll wouldn't be highly visible if something
pertaining to it weren't posted in the moderated group.  Perhaps so, but
Mr. Kamens doesn't suggest that 00 votes are necessary to make a formal
RFD "legal."  The notice of the straw poll could be posted here and in
the related .d group, if any.  E-mail is also available, of course.  If
you can't find ten or twenty people (for instance) who are dissatisfied
with the moderator by posting to news.groups, the .d group where
appropriate, and through e-mail, then perhaps your campaign to change
moderators *deserves* to fail.


I've just noticed that Pnews claims to post to thousands of machines
throughout the "civilized" world.  I think I'll have to change that
wording.  :-)

Disclaimer: I don't read r.a.e and I'm not a moderator.  I am, however,
a news administrator of sorts.

My apologies if this is posted twice.  Emacs is acting up a bit.

+--+--+--+--+--+--+--+--+--+--+--+--+--+--+--+--+--+--+--+--+--+--+--+
| Marc G. Frank                                  mgfrank@avernus.com |
|                   I'd rather be in Eldersburg.                     |
+--+--+--+--+--+--+--+--+--+--+--+--+--+--+--+--+--+--+--+--+--+--+--+
From: gwh@soda.berkeley.edu (George William Herbert)
Newsgroups: news.groups
Subject: Tamil vote records examined and OK
Date: 20 Aug 1992 03:45:00 GMT
Organization: Dis-
NNTP-Posting-Host: soda.berkeley.edu
Summary: Forgery Disproven

Early this week, Sundara Pandian emailed me the complete set of vote
records for the soc.culture.tamil ballot taken earlier this summer.
The intent behind this was to have someone who's not involved (me 8-)
look them over and see if there was any indication of vote fraud,
as had been claimed earlier by several opponents of the group
(namely Alok).

I have now done that check, and would like to state that there is no
evidence of forged votes within the records files.  I've looked at
the body of messages, headers, mail paths, etc. (everything but
having a textual analysis program look at the comments). 

So, if my opinion is of any value, you can trust that the votes
were legitimate. 8-)  


-george william herbert
gwh@soda.berkeley.edu  gwh@lurnix.com  herbert@uchu.isu92.ac.jp until 28 aug

Xref: sparky news.groups:16773 soc.culture.indian:27826
From: fca00@chennai.ccc.amdahl.com (A. Francis Chandran)
Newsgroups: news.groups,soc.culture.indian
Subject: Re: Impropriety in soc.culture.tamil vote
Date: 12 Aug 92 19:53:24 GMT
Organization: Amdahl Corporation, Sunnyvale CA

>In article <1992Aug6.234355.27354@cbnewsi.cb.att.com> alok@cbnewsi.cb.att.com (alok.vijayvargia) writes:
>
>How do you know that there was no manipulation ?
>I have evidence indicating that there was exhortation in the vote
>for this group.
                     [stuff deleted]

 
      Alok complaining about irregularities in the voting process !!!
 
      I guess it takes a thief to know another ;-)

      
      (remember the fiasco of SCIA and its subsequent removal
       because Alok supposedly did some gol-mal during the voting)


>
>
>Alok


                                                   -francis

>
Newsgroups: news.groups
From: chip@chinacat.unicom.com (Chip Rosenthal)
Subject: one reason why the comp.unix reorg is a mistake
Organization: Unicom Systems Development, Austin, TX
Date: Wed, 19 Aug 1992 03:30:33 GMT

The bulk of this reorganization is a mistake and deserves to be
rejected.

This proposal attempts to create a whole new level of UNIX newsgroups
which is unnecessary.  At this time, if you've got a question or
comment you've got two places to go:  either a general UNIX newsgroup
(comp.unix.questions, comp.unix.programmer, etc.) or a newsgroup
specific to your system (comp.sys.sun, comp.unix.sysv386, etc.).

This reorg invents a whole new level of newsgroups based upon UNIX
distribution:  System V, System III, OSF/1, etc.  No need has ever
been demonstrated for this.  Some people might think that they are
worthwhile topics, and once the groups exist the traffic will follow.
Creating newsgroups to satisfy nonexistent but merely hypothesized
demand has been show time and again to be a mistake.

comp.unix.bsd illustrates why this reorg is a bad idea.  When that
group was proposed the demand existed for a place to discuss BSD on
386/486 machines.  Instead of satisfying that demand, we created a
general comp.unix.bsd newsgroup.  The comp.unix.ultrix people haven't
been posting there.  The SunOS 4 users aren't posting there.  The only
people using it are the 386BSD users, and to a lesser extent the BSDI
BSD/386 folks.  They use it because we shoved comp.unix.bsd down their
throats instead of giving them what they really needed.  If we give
these people a proper home, the comp.unix.bsd traffic would pretty
much dry up, modulo the USL vs BSDI/UCB discussions.

Don't repeat that mistake.  Reject the sys5, sys3, and osf newsgroups
in the reorg proposal.

-- 
Chip Rosenthal  512-482-8260 | Let the wayward children play.  Let the wicked
Unicom Systems Development   | have their day.  Let the chips fall where they
<chip@chinacat.Unicom.COM>   | may.  I'm going to Disneyland.  -Timbuk 3
Newsgroups: news.groups
Subject: Re: Procedure for changing to unmoderated?
From: demon@desire.wright.edu (Stupendous Man)
Date: 16 Aug 92 00:07:24 EST
Distribution: world
Organization: Demonic Possesions, Inc.
Summary: Honestly, I DID NOT PAY THIS GUY TO POST THIS!!!

In article <3228227@bailey.UUCP>, ben@bailey.UUCP (Ben Bailey) writes:
> There is currently a discussion in rec.food.cooking regarding making
> the group rec.food.recipes unmoderated.  In the past year, no
> articles have been posted (or almost none) to this group.

	@#)(N@VB)N+@$HGBJ(@$GH

	(I'd type something legible but I'm laughing too hard)
:)

> The current discussion seems to indicate that the well meaning 
> moderator hasn't had the time to moderate the group properly.  Since
> this has become an issue, a general debate has insued regarding
> making the group unmoderated, as opposed to getting a new moderator.
> 
> I would like to know what the procedures are for holding a vote
> for the purpose of moving a newsgroup from moderated to unmoderated.

	Bring her into the wind and fire at will!

Brett                                                      
_______________________________________________________________________________
Proconsul Computer Consulting                                        CHA-CHING!
Better, Cheaper, Faster					       (Pick any two :)
Disclaimer:								   NOT!
Newsgroups: news.groups
Subject: Re: changing a newsgroup's moderator
From: demon@desire.wright.edu (Stupendous Man)
Date: 12 Aug 92 16:34:02 EST
Organization: Demonic Possesions, Inc.

In article <CKD.92Aug11195013@loiosh.eff.org>, ckd@eff.org (Christopher Davis) writes:
> 	<a_rubin.713479994@dn66> <1992Aug11.002752.18789@athena.mit.edu>
> 	<1992Aug11.161947.1593@falcon.aamrl.wpafb.af.mil>
> Date: Tue, 11 Aug 1992 23:50:15 GMT
> Lines: 9
> 
> Brett> == Brett Kottmann <bkottmann@falcon.aamrl.wpafb.af.mil> 
> 
>  Brett> RFDs that fail cannot be re-instituted for six months.
> 
> No, *votes* that fail are blocked for six months.  RFDs are not.

	Yes, but RFD's that fail generate "we just did that, forget it"
messages when a new RFD is tried again before six months are up.  Effectively a
failed RFD has had the same result as a failed CFV.

	No, it's not in the guidelines, but as we have seen, that doesn't mean
it can't happen :).

	Guidelines != rules.

	Customs are usually as strong as guildelines.

	Once again we come down to the question, what is wrong with using the
current RFD/CFV process?

	Debunking some red herrings:

	1) The poor moderator doesn't know what's going on.

		Phooey!  RFDs should be posted to the group in question.  It is
the job of the moderator to read incoming messages.  Even if they are cowardly
enough not to post the RFD, they will still have read it.  If they have
abandoned their post, then they deserve to be voted out.

	2) The moderator will constantly be defending him/herself

		This won't be a problem.  Think about it: good moderators will
be defended by the readers.  An RFD before six months are up is usually met
with a barrage of "we already tried that" messages.  Plus, that is the one
valid time I would accept the moderator failing to post a remove-moderator RFD. 
The moderator will only have to defend themself infrequently.
	Anyone who say the Dolan-SF Digest flame-fest saw what loyal readers do
for moderators who are doing their job.

	3) Spaf/Dave/God will reject it.

		Yeah, right.  Don't put words in their mouth.

	4) Sysadmins will reject it because it's never been done.

		Grasping a little, aren't we?

	Any other will-o-wisps that need to be dispelled?

	Cory has said enough about 2/3 plus 100 votes being more than fair to
incumbents.

Brett                                                      
_______________________________________________________________________________
Proconsul Computer Consulting                                        CHA-CHING!
Better, Cheaper, Faster					       (Pick any two :)
Disclaimer:								   NOT!
Newsgroups: news.groups
From: richard@csi.on.ca (Richard Martin)
Subject: Re: RFD: misc.transit
Organization: Carp Systems International, Kanata, ON
Date: Thu, 13 Aug 1992 15:43:39 GMT

In article <1992Aug11.101911.4526@sq.sq.com> msb@sq.sq.com (Mark Brader) writes:
>I really don't like the idea of "*.transit" for a group that's to cover
>highway design.  I'm less unfavorable to misc.transportation, or the
>shorter and equally clear misc.transport.
This is the best name I can think of -^
>Mark Brader, Toronto		"But I do't have a '' key o my termial."
>utzoo!sq!msb, msb@sq.com				   -- Lynn Gold
>
>This article is in the public domain.
Richard.  =)
Newsgroups: news.groups