Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: twinkie names
Date: Sun, 19 Jul 1992 16:49:30

    A person who failed to identify himself wrote:

    JL> >     Loresinger (East 10 May #39)

    JL> Makes immediate sense to me.  Skalds and bards were the respective
    JL> keepers of lore in their civilisations, and this lore was often
    JL> handed down through song (which is, after all, easier to recall
    JL> than a dry recitation of facts without rhyme nor metre).

 Whether or not it "makes sense", immediate or otherwise, is irrelevant -
 the question is whether it is "formed in a period manner"? Nobody was
 called "loresinger" in period -- they were, as you say, called "bard",
 "skald", "seanchai", "filid", etc. Typically, primitive societies
 (presumably because of its importance, as you point out) all have single
 word names for those who orally transmit information. They did not
 compound two nouns to create a name for it, which is a Typical Fantasy
 Novel Trick. I have no problems with it in a fantasy novel; I (and others)
 have serious problems with it in the SCA.

    JL> > Fence Splitter (Atlantia 17 May #11)

    JL> This makes no sense to you?  Ever seen a log fence being built?

 Yup. Even built a couple. Never seen one being split, though ('cept maybe
 by a kid with a stolen watermelon in one hand and a load of rocksalt close
 behind); which is why it makes no sense, period. If he wants to be "rail
 splitter", that's a different story. (The problem, as I say, is an
 apparent incapacity for analytical thought...)

 In addition to which, I have seen no evidence that "split log rail fences"
 are period...

    JL> > Shieldbane (Atlantia 9 June #38),

    JL> Come now, you also say that this (and "Bladesbane", which you also
    JL> mention) makes no immediate sense?  It's someone who's destroyed a
    JL> lot of shields (presumably his enemies').

 Again, as I say, it's not a question of "makes sense" but rather of
 "period fashion". The general equation of "bane" with a destroyer of
 anything but life is post-period; it originally meant "slayer or
 murderer". Again, it is too abstract; and not authentic period usage. We
 have happily registered the perfectly period "Shieldbreaker" and probably
 would have no problems with the equally good "Bladebreaker".
 
    JL> > Iron Horde (Atlantia 9 June #50)

    JL> Makes sense to me.

 [Nope, I promised Tibor I wouldn't say it...] Again, as I say, it's not a
 question of "makes sense" but rather of "period fashion". If you bothered
 to look into the subject (heavens, what a thought) you would find that
 "hordes" were named after colors, not metals. (Hmmm... a heraldic pun...)

    JL> I suspect, milord, that your opposition to these names (and the
    JL> others which you mentioned) is not due to whether or not they make
    JL> immediate sense (after all, Arval's example names of Wytepintell,
    JL> Wykdechire, Trussloue, Sacchespee, Briselanse, et. al, do not lend
    JL> themselves to immediate understanding [for most of us, at any
    JL> rate]), but because they are reminiscent of names which often occur
    JL> in fantasy novels.

 Again, as I say, it's not a question of "makes sense" (immediate or
 otherwise) but rather of "period fashion". (You seem to have mastered the
 "reading" aspect, now you need to work on the "understanding" part...)

    JL> But if my suspicion is unfounded, and you truly *are* opposed to
    JL> these names because they make no immediate sense to you, let me ask
    JL> you this question:  if a herald rejects a submission because it
    JL> makes no sense to *him* personally, what is to stop another from
    JL> rejecting names which he does not know how to pronounce ("Tadhg",
    JL> for example)?

 Well, as I say, your suspicions are pretty far off base ... but the answer
 to your question is, that it is for precisely that reason that we have
 Rules for Submissions, so that it does NOT depend on the personal, perhaps
 whimsical, judgment of a single herald. The bottom line is, however, that
 Laurel's judgment will prevail -- and Laurel is indeed only one person;
 but he has a College of Arms (mailing list at last count, 47) to advise
 him to eliminate any partiality and properly inform his judgments.

 If, however, the name doesn't "make sense" to Laurel (as was the case
 with recent submissions from Trimaris, "Strongfire" and "Longeye", then
 it WILL get returned.

 The problem is that many in the SCA hear but do not understand; they hear
 a name, and it sounds as if it OUGHT to make sense, so they never take a
 close enough look at it to see whether it actually DOES make sense -- and
 for that I blame the inordinate number of fantasy novels that far too many
 SCA folk immersed themselves in during their Formative Years. (I know, I
 was one of them; and it took me four years of College and five of Graduate
 School to get straightened out...).

    Tadhg, Hanaper

 * Origin: Herald's Point * Steppes/Ansteorra * 214-699-0057 (1:124/4229)
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