HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: mike_steiner@qm.claris.com (Mike Steiner)
Newsgroups: rec.org.mensa
Subject: Re: RE: rec.org.high-iq.misc?
Date: 29 Sep 92 18:09:09 GMT

In article <1992Sep25.181955.6266@gn.ecn.purdue.edu>, mechalas@gn.ecn.purdue.edu (John P. Mechalas) writes:
> 
> In article <15211@claris.com> mike_steiner@qm.claris.com (Mike Steiner) writes:
> >In article <01GP6B5WAO4Y9JD5CC@ccfvx3.draper.com>, seb@draper.com (Steve Bacher) writes:
> >> Oh, I get it!  You would like a newsgroup where all topics can be
> >> discussed and all participants are welcome.  Let's call it - uh -
> >> rec.everything.  Then watch the cross-posts accumulate...
> >
> >Yup, where all topics can be discussed intelligently, and where all
> >who want to discuss them intelligently are welcome--and where affairs
> >about the organization called Mensa would be completely on topic as
> >well.  This arrangement has worked very well on Fidonet, RIME,
> >Intelecnet, and on Compuserve.  There is no reason that it should not
> >work as well (or better) on usenet.
> 
> Just as a curiosity, isn't this what the newsgroup "general" is for?  Because
> if it is, then Mr Bacher's fears about crossposting have no basis, since there
> is less activity on "general" than anywhere else.
>    I think that, although sound in reasoning, an "everything" newsgroup just
> wouldn't last...people are too used to the large number of specific groups,
> and I can't see them wading through a bunch of posts that are probably not
> related to what they are interested in.
>    Any thoughts on this?

I didn't know that there was such a newsgroup as "general," but that is really
moot.  This is one of the very few newsgroups not related to the Macintosh that
I read.  And, as you quoted me as saying, this format for a Mensa forum has worked
on other venues for years.  The Fidonet Mensa echo was started in 1987, I believe,
and is still going strong.
From: jlc5f@poe.acc.Virginia.EDU (Jean L. Cooper)
Newsgroups: rec.org.mensa
Subject: Re: Newbie born
Date: 29 Sep 92 20:06:56 GMT
Article-I.D.: murdoch.1992Sep29.200656.13263
Organization: University of Virginia

Forgive me, Scott, I just cannot resist--

Blacksburg--it's not the end of the universe, but you
can see it from there.

(For those who don't know, UVA and VPI are traditional
rivals.)
--
Jean L. Cooper    (BITNET: JLC5F@virginia.edu   CIS: 70253,1114)
"The true University of these days is a Collection of Books." 
                                           --Carlyle
From: mike_steiner@qm.claris.com (Mike Steiner)
Newsgroups: rec.org.mensa
Subject: Re: alt.tasteless perhaps?
Date: 1 Oct 92 21:14:58 GMT

In article <1992Oct1.134011.21580@ncsu.edu>, not@ailab.ncsu.edu (N O Tai) writes:
> 
> 
> From the keyboard of ecsd@tfs.com (Eric C. S. Dynamic):
> 
> : The guy who does *not* intend to take a shit, does not see himself 
> : at that moment of wondering why he has to sit on old dried urine at 
> : other times.  Half a brain says lift the seat, but nooooooooooo he 
> : can't bother with that.  Real bad for *scared to death of infection 
> : and yukkies* like I was and still am somewhat.
> 
> What the hell does this have to do with Mensa?
> 
> I haven't seen much hostility towards Eric -- at least not nearly as
> much as Scott Tai used to generate with his posts.  If Eric doesn't 
> want to hear lovingly sarcastic opinions about his posts then he 
> should keep them out of rec.org.mensa.
> 
> I think that the denizens of rec.org.mensa have been quite tolerant of
> ecsd.  He's been cluttering up the group with private messages and
> making ludicrous statements that positively invite someone to draw
> their rapier and pink Eric a good one.
> 
> One suspects that the lack of response to Eric's posts is in part 
> due to the fear that he is just rattling our collective cage, and one 
> is still embarrassed from the last time one fell for a tongue-in-cheek
> Mensa baiter.
> 
> 
> Dr N.O. Tai

Grow up, Scott.
From: gmark@cbnewse.cb.att.com (gilbert.m.stewart)
Newsgroups: rec.org.mensa
Subject: Re: t// Re: T// Re: T% Thought for the Day
Date: 30 Sep 92 16:50:05 GMT
Article-I.D.: cbnewse.1992Sep30.165005.27103
Organization: AT&T

In article <1992Sep30.022629.18441@ncsu.edu> tai@ailab.ncsu.edu (Scott A Tai) writes:
>
>sonic@cray.com (Curtis L. Swanson) writes:
>|> Ummmm,  "somebody" bothered to write the following:
>|> *[ObNonFlameContent: It is interesting that in our society husbands and 
>|> *wives are at least as much alike in IQ as brothers and sisters.  If men 
>|> *and women picked their mates strictly at random, as by a lottery, spouses 
>|> *would differ by an average of 18 IQ points.  But in fact men and women
>|> *choose one another partly for intelligence, and so spouses differ by
>|> *only 10 or 11 points in IQ.]
>|> *
>|> 
>|> What is the point or relavence of the last paragraph?  Are  you trying to 
>|> say that you're GMS's wife???
>
>Yes, actually.  Do you have a problem with that?
>

Before I say anything, send a photograph.

GMS
From: mike_steiner@qm.claris.com (Mike Steiner)
Newsgroups: rec.org.mensa
Subject: Re: "wrong" answers on IQ tests
Date: 29 Sep 92 18:21:39 GMT

In article <66679@cup.portal.com>, ts@cup.portal.com (Tim W Smith) writes:
> 
> I picked up a book called something like "Test Your IQ" or "Know You
> IQ" or something like that (clearly, the next book I should read is
> "How To Organize You Library"!).  I'm having a problem with the
> scoring -- several of their answers are wrong!
> 
> Example:  Which of the five designs is least like the other four?
> 
> 	The five designs are capital letters: N A V H and F.
> 
> There answer is that V is least like the others because it is drawn with
> two lines, while the others are drawn with three.  My answer is that A is
> the least like th others because it divides the plane into two regions
> while the others do not.

My answer is that F is least like the others because it has it's "opening"
to the side, whereas the others have their openings to the top or bottom.
Newsgroups: rec.org.mensa
From: seb@draper.com (Steve Bacher)
Subject: Geneticism
Organization: Draper Laboratory
Date: Sat, 3 Oct 1992 11:18:39 GMT

Rodney Adams writes:

>I am e[sic]nclined to believe, as some researchers have suggested, that homosex
uality
>is caused by a genetic defect.  After all, it definitely does not contribute
>to the survival of the species.

Whoa there.  Genetic mutations, whatever their cause, are not "defects" or
"improvements" except by virtue of their aiding or detracting from the
survivability of the species.  Therefore, if a genetic mutation helps the
species survive, it's an enhancement or whatever you want to call it;
if it does not aid in the survival of the species, it's pretty much
nothing; if it has a negative impact on survival, then it is a defect.

So, your statement is untrue, since a mutation which is not detrimental 
cannot be considered a "defect" - unless, perhaps, the time and energy 
spent on seeking out members of the same sex is taken from time and energy 
that would otherwise be spent on finding partners capable of reproduction.

You can't cast aspersions upon an attribute of a creature's makeup by 
calling it "defective", unless you mean to imply that any activity
or property of a being that isn't actively involved in species survival is
"defective".  Thus, you could say that the presence of the appendix in 
humans is a "defect" since it does not contribute to survival and in some 
cases has a negative impact thereon.

I am also troubled by the implied content of your argument.  You may be
attempting to demonstrate "defectness" (though it is done fatuously),
but you certainly have not made the case that it is "genetic" by stating
that it does not contribute to species survival.  Plus, I sense that you
are attempting to use "defect" as a value judgment.

I fear that your comments, while no doubt sincere and honest in your appraisal
of your belief system, betray a fundamental lack of understanding
of genetics and evolution.  The notion of identifying a genetic trait as
"defective" is either a moral judgment - which makes little sense from the
genetic point of view, or when trying to understand the nature of a
process - or devoid of significance, since outside of species survival,
who really cares what a genetic mutation is about? Evolution
is a process whereby random changes are introduced into a population, some
increasing the population, some decreasing it, and some having no effect.
You appear to believe that these random changes can be assigned
values on some scale of morality or "disgustingness", or at least to think
that a genetic mutation's purpose in existence is to improve 
survivability, and if it fails to do so it is marked "defective" by some
all-powerful Inspector.

Even if you demonstrate that homosexuality is genetic in origin, you prove
nothing by calling it a "defect", since it is one merely by definition of
the evolutionary process.  You are left with a personal moral and aesthetic
value judgment.  There is no way that can be argued with; your opinions are
clearly your own.  But don't try to pin the rap on Mother Nature.

 - seb
From: mike_steiner@qm.claris.com (Mike Steiner)
Newsgroups: rec.org.mensa
Subject: Re: "wrong" answers on IQ tests
Date: 30 Sep 92 23:03:14 GMT

In article <1992Sep30.160159.24755@cbnewse.cb.att.com>, gmark@cbnewse.cb.att.com (gilbert.m.stewart) writes:
> 
> In article <15228@claris.com> mike_steiner@qm.claris.com (Mike Steiner) writes:
> >In article <1992Sep28.153937.19096@cbnewse.cb.att.com>, gmark@cbnewse.cb.att.com (gilbert.m.stewart) writes:
> >> 
> >> In article <Sep.28.09.09.24.1992.27295@remus.rutgers.edu> clong@remus.rutgers.edu (Chris Long) writes:
> >> >In article <66679@cup.portal.com>, Tim W Smith writes:
> [...]
> >> >> 	The five designs are capital letters: N A V H and F.
> >> >
> >> >> There answer is that V is least like the others because it is drawn with
> >> >> two lines, while the others are drawn with three.  My answer is that A is
> >> >> the least like th others because it divides the plane into two regions
> >> >> while the others do not.
> [....]
> >> BTW, I would say "F", because it's the only letter that does not
> >> appear in the word, "Havana".
> >
> >Ha!  "Q" doesn't appear in the word, "Havana."  (You didn't say that "F" is
> >the only word on the list that doesn't appear in the word "Havana.")
> 
> Actually, "A" is the only word on the list.

True.  I meant "letter," not "word."
From: mike_steiner@qm.claris.com (Mike Steiner)
Newsgroups: rec.org.mensa
Subject: Re: t// Re: Meaning of Intelligence
Date: 6 Oct 92 18:12:23 GMT
Followup-To: rec.org.mensa

In article <1992Oct6.031824.29783@ncsu.edu>, tai@ailab.ncsu.edu (Scott A
Tai) wrote:

> $ while true
> > do
> > echo tai sucks | mail tai@ailab.ncsu.edu
> > done
> 
> $ yes "tai sucks" | mail tai@ailab.ncsu.edu

I'm so glad to see that you admit that you suck.


+---------------------------------------------------------------------+
|Now that I have a reader that can do .sigs, I can't think of a witty |
|one to put here, so I won't.  All normal disclaimers apply.          |
+---------------------------------------------------------------------+
From: tai@ailab.ncsu.edu (Scott A Tai)
Newsgroups: rec.org.mensa
Subject: t// t// Re: REC.ORG.MENSA TODAY
Date: 30 Sep 92 02:05:32 GMT
Reply-To: tai@ailab.ncsu.edu (Scott A Tai)
Organization: NCSU Artificial Intelligence Systems Laboratory
Originator: tai@ailab.ncsu.edu


mechalas@gn.ecn.purdue.edu (John P. Mechalas) writes:
|> In article <1992Sep29.221718.10324@ncsu.edu> tai@ailab.ncsu.edu (Scott A Tai) writes:
|> >This claim of joining MENSA for social reasons has always sounded hollow. 
|> >First, any area large enough for a MENSA chapter will also have any number 
|> >of other clubs, and any interest club on an intellectual subject will be 
|> >overloaded with intelligent people. Second, unless one is a gross 
|> >underachiever, anyone bright enough to qualify for MENSA will be 
|> >surrounded by intelligent people at college or at work. 
|> 
|> OH REALLY???  Come visit my home town.  :)

Hey, I don't even know where Purdue is!  
But if you really want me to come visit... :)

[ObTai: The majority of gifted children in recent generations have 
 come from working-class, not middle-class, families.  A larger 
 percentage of middle-class children are gifted, but the working 
 and lower classes produce gifted children in larger numbers.  How 
 many more disadvantaged children would have been bright if they had 
 had middle-class gestation and rearing conditions?]

--
Scott Tai -- tai@ailab.ncsu.edu
NCSU Artificial Intelligence Lab
Centennial Campus
Newsgroups: rec.org.mensa
From: iscott@nyx.cs.du.edu (Ian Scott)
Subject: Re: t// t// REC.ORG.MENSA TODAY - 09/28/92
X-Disclaimer: Nyx is a public access Unix system run by the University
	of Denver for the Denver community.  The University has neither
	control over nor responsibility for the opinions of users.
Organization: Nyx, Public Access Unix at U. of Denver Math/CS dept.
Date: Wed, 30 Sep 92 15:41:40 GMT


ecsd@tfs.com (Eric C. S. Dynamic) writes:

> *I* am the primal archetype of hypocrite; but someone has to stand as the
> pure example of that energy. Talk to your animal for a while and learn
> some new tricks.

> Sorry. Personal experience, in comparison with observations of others,
> says I Am More Intelligent.

Eric--

Get some rest, take your vitamins.  Don't be obnoxious.
You are NOT as smart or precious as you think you are.
You are a lump of dysfunctional protiens riding on a creaky old planet
with 5 billion other lumps weighing it down.

Grow up.

IAN
Newsgroups: rec.org.mensa
From: jswthomp@milton.u.washington.edu (James Thompson)
Subject: Re: I. M. Shirley Wright says...
Organization: University of Washington, Seattle
Date: Sat, 3 Oct 1992 04:45:41 GMT

In article <sen4h8y00YV_M1aX45@andrew.cmu.edu> Sandy Topping <st15+@andrew.cmu.edu> writes:

>It's simple.  Webster provides rules for the English language.  Ye
>programmers provide the rules for programming languages.  Apples and
>oranges.

WRONG.  Webster does not provide the rules.  Nor do Strunk & White.  Webster
observes the way the language is used, and documents it.  The rules are set
by the users of the language.  That's us, by the way.  People who insist that
it just HAS to be done just so, can't handle the reality of a living language.

Not apples and oranges.  English is a language used by people to communicate
with people.  Programming languages are used by people to communicate with
computers.  Both need some degree of stability to be useful, but either one
becomes obsolete if it can't be adapted to new communication requirements.

IMHO, of course. >&^D

Jim

Newsgroups: rec.org.mensa
From: jswthomp@milton.u.washington.edu (James Thompson)
Subject: Re: Geneticism
Organization: University of Washington, Seattle
Date: Mon, 5 Oct 1992 01:45:20 GMT

In article <01GPILTT38K28WXA4U@ccfvx3.draper.com> seb@draper.com (Steve Bacher) writes:
>Rodney Adams writes:
>
>>I am e[sic]nclined to believe, as some researchers have suggested, that homosex
>uality
>>is caused by a genetic defect.  After all, it definitely does not contribute
>>to the survival of the species.
>
>Whoa there.  Genetic mutations, whatever their cause, are not "defects" or
>"improvements" except by virtue of their aiding or detracting from the
>survivability of the species.  Therefore, if a genetic mutation helps the
>species survive, it's an enhancement or whatever you want to call it;
>if it does not aid in the survival of the species, it's pretty much
>nothing; if it has a negative impact on survival, then it is a defect.
>
>So, your statement is untrue, since a mutation which is not detrimental 
>cannot be considered a "defect" - unless, perhaps, the time and energy 
>spent on seeking out members of the same sex is taken from time and energy 
>that would otherwise be spent on finding partners capable of reproduction.
>

I would go a step further here.  The survival of the human species involves
much more than the process of manufacturing more humans, and since humans, on
the whole, don't seem to have any trouble increasing their numbers, more
up-to-date consideration of "survival of the species" should probably include
traits that enhance/impede the preservation of a viable environment for future
generations.  Survival of the species is not primarily a sexual issue.

Jim
From: gmark@cbnewse.cb.att.com (gilbert.m.stewart)
Newsgroups: rec.org.mensa
Subject: Re: Famous Mensans
Date: 2 Oct 92 19:55:08 GMT
Organization: AT&T

In article <1992Oct1.200742.24181@cs.ucla.edu> quam@hana.cs.ucla.edu (David Quam) writes:
>In article <BvG0I3.93t@news.larc.nasa.gov> yaros@sab57.larc.nasa.gov (Steve Yaros) writes:
>>
>>All right...at the risk of boring you all with repetition, this card-carrying
>>Mensan would like to ask for the names of famous Mensans.  I was asked for
>>this info and came up with a near blank.
>>
>
>
>Try Isaac Asimov, who is (or used to be) the International Chair of MENSA.
>If Isaac Asimov, a genius by any standard, thought it was worthwhile to join
>MENSA, who in their right mind is going to argue?
>
>

Well, he seemed like a nice guy, and he sure had a lot of information,
and fantastic amount of work behind him, but I always considered his
stuff sort of "Sci-Fi Lite".  Not bad, but not up there with Niven,
etc..

Genius?  Well, IQ high enough to be in Mensa, but I guess it
depends on your use of the word.

Does that mean I'm not in my right mind?  Don't know.

GMS
Newsgroups: rec.org.mensa
From: tai@ailab.ncsu.edu (Scott A Tai)
Subject: t-- Re: Circular Flames
Originator: tai@ailab.ncsu.edu
Reply-To: tai@ailab.ncsu.edu (Scott A Tai)
Organization: NCSU Artificial Intelligence Systems Laboratory
Date: Wed, 30 Sep 1992 23:09:42 GMT


mike_steiner@qm.claris.com (Mike Steiner) writes:
|> Tai began his Mensa-bashing in this newsgroup almost from its inception.
|> When he first began, we responded with logic and decorum.  His response was
|> more bashing, and then flaming.  I, and a few others, began to flame him back.
|> all that did was invoke more flames from him, but eventually he left; then the
|> newsgroup settled down--until he returned.  When he returned this time, one of
|> his first messages took a slam against me, and the content of the messages had
|> not changed from his previous appearances here.  I see no reason to treat him
|> any differently than I had.  I'd not reply to him at all if no one else replied
|> to him, but since they do, that encourages him to keep posting; therefore, my
|> keeping silent would not do anything towards shunning him.

Bullshit.  Here's a repost of that first "MENSA-bashing" article:

--
Several people have asked why there is such a strong bias against MENSA.
I believe that it's because it's a highly segregated and discriminatory
group.  Like many physical attributes, intelligence is not something that
an individual has a lot of control over.  Studies have shown that
intelligence is based primarily on hereditary and genetic factors.
To have a group solely for people with a certain IQ or test score is
nothing less than blatant discrimination.  I would like to know the
approximate percentage of blacks or Hispanics currently in MENSA, since
their standardized test scores generally tend to be significantly lower
than those of whites.  I believe this amount will be a great deal less
than the actual percentage from the population as a whole, in the US.
Assuming this is correct, how can you say that your group ISN'T
discriminatory?  Or do you just believe that these minority groups are
unable to carry on intelligent conversations with white folk?

Scott Tai
NCSU AI Lab
--

After posting this article, *I* was flamed and bashed by many MENSA members.
Go figure.

--
Scott Tai -- tai@ailab.ncsu.edu
NCSU Artificial Intelligence Lab
Centennial Campus
From: lehlers@dk.oracle.com (Lars Ehlers)
Newsgroups: rec.org.mensa
Subject: Re: Meaning of Intelligence
Date: 3 Oct 92 01:51:47 GMT
Reply-To: lehlers@dk.oracle.com (Lars Ehlers)
Organization: Oracle Denmark

In article <1992Oct2.001731.19087@ncsu.edu> mai@ailab.ncsu.edu (Mai Tai) 
writes:
>
[all deleted]
>
>Mai

Who? Does Scott also has a mother or a sister or .. ??

-- 
Lars Ehlers                  |  lehlers@dk.oracle.com
Oracle Denmark               |
From: onar@hsr.no (Onar Aam)
Newsgroups: rec.org.mensa
Subject: Paradox-joke
Date: 29 Sep 92 16:36:02 GMT
Organization: Rogaland University Centre

A guy came to his girlfriend and told her:" I want to quit seeing my shrink."
"Why on earth do you want to do that," the girl replied in horror.
The guy said:" I'm afraid that he'll hit me." 
Schocked and horrified the girl asked him what on earth he wanted to do that for.
"Because," the guy said in fright," if I wanted to quit seeing him, I think
he would be mad at me."


Onar.
From: mike_steiner@qm.claris.com (Mike Steiner)
Newsgroups: rec.org.mensa
Subject: Re: Doubters Of Astrology
Date: 2 Oct 92 23:33:03 GMT

In article <1992Oct1.182959.15738@netcom.com>, yoo@netcom.com (Young-Kyu Yoo) writes:
> 
> crawdad@fncent (Matt Crawford) writes:
> >Yeah, yeah.  And back in high school I used to positively *scare*
> >people with uncannily accurate tarot card readings.  But I never
> >believed in cartomancy.  The cards were just a prop to expedite a
> >little flim-flam.
> 
> YOU used tarot cards to flim-flam folks, therefore cartomancy doesn't work??  And as a corollary, astrology is a scam???
> 
> Brilliant logic.  Much the same kind of un-reasoning used by all too many
> debunkers.
> 
> If you mean to imply that folks can be fooled by psychological profiles, I've 
> addressed that point in another posting.  

I believe that his point is that Occam's Razor works.  Uri Geller says that he
can bend spoons with his mind.  James Randi shows how he can do it by a magician's
trick, while making it look exactly as Geller makes it look.  He can also teach
any other person how to do it.  Therefore, until Geller can prove that he does
not use a magician's trick, the logical conclusion is that he does.

Similarly, until an astrologer can show that s/he did not use psychological
flim-flam to make her assessments, the logical conclusion is that s/he did use
flim flam.
From: phil@miracle.com (Phil Hill)
Newsgroups: rec.org.mensa
Subject: Re: Boston Mensa RG
Date: Fri, 02 Oct 92 11:34:03 EDT
Organization: Miracle Computer Consultants

Craig.Wagner@p2.f120.n109.z1.fidonet.org (Craig Wagner) writes:
>I note in the NH Mensa newsletter an ad for your upcoming RG.  It lists many
>activities (including babysitting) for kids.  I'd like to learn more. 
>Specifically:  hasn't any thought been given to any age limits?  Any particular
>babysitter/baby ratio?  I have kids who will have just turned two and three, and
>haven't really seriously considered attending any gatherings because of them. 
>Should I consider this one?

Yes.

There are no age limits.  Two and three year olds are fine, the person
in charge of organizing the babysitting has a two year old, so there will
be no problem with your kids.

Last year we offered a babysitting room, and the ratio was 1:3 or there
abouts.  The babysitting room is run on a co-op basis (i.e. you have to
serve some time) until about 9pm, then it's run on a cash basis (everyone
wants to party so they hire people to watch the kids, and everyone chips in
to foot the bill).
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
| Phil Hill                     | "All you people in TV land,           |
| Miracle Computer Consultants  |   I will wake up your empty shells.   |
|                               |  Peak time viewing blown in a flash,  |
|                               |   as I burn into your memory cells.   |
| Email: phil@miracle.com       |  'cause I'm alive." - Peter Gabriel   |