From: mcconnel@mcs.kent.edu (Mike McConnell)
Subject: Re: Good and evil things (was Re: Technology and Morality in LOTR)
Organization: Kent State University
Date: Mon, 21 Dec 1992 16:33:26 GMT

In article <lewchuk.724800504@therien>, lewchuk@cs.UAlberta.CA (Michael Lewchuk) writes:
|> dzik@access.digex.com (Joseph Dzikiewicz) writes:
|> >I can't think off-hand of an example of something in LOTR that is
|> >inherently good.  The two trees of Valinor, perhaps?  Although one
|> >could argue that, as they were used to help create the Silmarils
|> >which caused much evil, they had a possibility of evil.
|> 
|> Well, let's have some examples of "good" items:
|> 1.  The elf-cloaks, garden dust, phial, and acorn of Galadriel
|> 2.  The swords of the Barrow-downs, which the Orcs were afraid to even touch.
|> 
|> >No, I'm afraid that it is easier to be evil in LOTR then to be good.
|> 
|> That's because it was easier for Sauron to be powerfully evil than it was
|> for anyone else to be powerfully good.  Sauron was a Maia, and that meant
|> huge power over lots of things.  Since these magics were creations by
|> mortals, I'm sure Sauron could have understood their power and found a way
|> to turn them to evil.  After all, it is unlikely a mortal (even an Elf
                          ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
|> Lord) could outdo a Maiar (Sauron) or a Valar (Morgoth).  In other words,
   ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
|> nobody in Middle-Earth had the knowledge of how to construct something that
|> Sauron couldn't figure out and eventually corrupt, which was reasonable
|> since Sauron was the most poweful creature in Middle-earth and the only
|> other beings of similar stature (the Wizards) never created anything of note.
|> 
|> 					Michael Lewchuk
|> 					lewchuk@cs.UAlberta.CA
 I have to disagree.  First, the elves are not mortals, they are immortals.  
Remember in Rivendale when Bilbo asks them to figure out which part of the 
poem was done by Aragorn and they say that they cannot tell between mortals (I
think they say something about sheep and shephards at that time.)
 But more importantly, what about Feanor and the Silmarils.  I think that they
are classified as something unmatchable in their construction.  But more impor-
tantly, although Morgoth is able to steal them, he is never able to control them
or to corrupt them--because he is impure, they continue to burn him.
 In addition, there is strong argument that Gandalf, at least when he returns as
Gandalf the White, is getting close to the same league as Sauron.  I don't think
that the reason why Sauron can be powerfully evil is because of innate power so 
much as intent and tactics.  A main goal of evil in Middle Earth is to dominate;
likewise, a main goal of good would then be to free people.  It is much easier to
manipulate people's actions through fear, manipulation, and shear strength than it
is to encourage them to do 'the right thing'.  Thus the handicap that Gandalf (and
good in general) faces is the refusal to dominate.  Both Gandalf and Galadrial, at
various points, express this idea.  They will not force people to fight the Enemy
as they see fit, because in so doing, they will become the Enemy.

Mike McConnell
Dept. of Mathematics
Kent State University