From: stark@dwovax.enet.dec.com (Todd I. Stark)
Subject: Re: Some general questions...
Organization: Digital Equipment Corporation
Date: 29 JUL 92 09:47:31    


Responding to the original general questions, and partly to Dan's 
reply.

>Judo is definitely viable for use as a self-defense method.  The majority of
>schools out there don't focus on the self-defense aspects, but they certainly
>exist.  In general, you can turn what looks like a harmless throw in the dojo
>into a very deadly throw in a physical assault.  Keep in mind that the 
>average person doesn't know how to take a fall, and even if they did, they
>would be falling on pavement which is not quite as soft as the mat or tatami.
>You also have joint manipulation and chokes to use in those situations.

While that's undoubtedly true, the thing I find most practical about
good Judo training for use in self-defense is not the results of its
techniques, but the results of the training on conditioning the mind and
body for contact, for pain, for explosive use of strength, for precision
coordination of the entire body in a powerful, burst of movement.

In its general conditioning effects, I'd say it rivals boxing,
which is my own primary choice as a base training system, mainly
because of the excellent light footwork and generalship it tends to
develop, and the familiarity you get with seeing and handling real shots 
coming at you.

The rhythm and footwork used in the two training methods is very 
different, but those factors don't really come as much into play in *most*
combative street situations, as much as pure mental and physical 
toughness do (in my opinion).   Technical questions aside, good competitive 
Judo is definitely 'street tough' in many ways, and modifying the techniques 
to be more dangerous just adds to its potential effectiveness.   

><	2) akido is also very athletic, but again, how useful could it be in 
><           a street situation? 
> 
>What I've seen of Aikido is very impressive, but according to the other
>Aikido practitioners on the net, it does take quite some time to become
>proficient.  By no means am I saying that means you should stay away from
>Aikido.  I feel that any activity that allows you to move with someone and
>learn how both bodies function is beneficial to your wellness in a self-
>defense situation.

I'm not as impressed as a practitioner as I was as a spectator :-)
but if you have no fighting movement skills, Aikido will definitely
teach you some sweet movement skills and get your gross timing down.
Over time, it builds a kind of solid balance and posture that you don't
find in most other kinds of training.
But the fine skills do take a while, compared to other training systems.
And there are numerous serious gaps seen in common application, as we've 
discussed in posts elsewhere.   With a few notable exceptions,
the toughness and aggression required for personal defense isn't
required nor developed.  Practioners who exhibit it usually bring it
with them when they start.

I consider Aikido, as far as contributing to street-effectiveness,
a 'graduate' level training art, requiring a base of competitive training
elsewhere to fully appreciate.

><	3) are striking techniques taught in either judo or akido?

Not really.  They are part of many traditions, but in practice are not
consistently drilled, for the most part.

><	4) does the practice of shotokan tend to injure joints? Is that why 
><           practitioners of such hard styles seem to retire in their 30's and
><           early fourties?

It's very possible that it might; especially if you have a hard-nosed 
instructor with little knowledge of how to protect the joints, or a
militaristic attitude.  Or if you have a particular predisposition that makes 
that type of training difficult for you.

There are many older practitioners of Japanese Karate with relatively healthy
joints, though (especially compared to say ex-pro football players,
ex prima ballerina, etc., who also suffer higher than average joint
problems).   Of course, in addition to the added risk, they also achieve 
higher levels of performance as athletes and movement artists than most people 
who take on a very conservative lifestyle.  Ya pays yer money, and takes yer 
chances, I guess.  Intelligent training practices can really minimize the
risks in something like karate, though, which is potentially a lifelong
activity, just as most martial arts and sports can be.   I've seen some
very active and talented 70+ year old boxers.  My own maternal grandfather
was a prizefighter, and could still move beautifully, even with young kids,
well into his senior years.

						kind regards,
							todd