From: holzman@fnalno.fnal.gov (Daniel B. Holzman)
Subject: Re: Levis Drops Boy Scouts...
Organization: Fermi National Accelerator Lab
Date: Tue, 18 Aug 1992 20:19:05 GMT
X-Posted-From: fnalno.fnal.gov
X-Posted-Through: sol.ctr.columbia.edu

In article <1992Aug10.215839.8088@awdprime.austin.ibm.com>, 
jfh@greenber.austin.ibm.com (John F Haugh II) writes:

> Homosexuality =IS= a changeable trait.  It is as changeable as your
> religion, your political affiliation or your favorite food.  

And you'd have a shit-fit if the BSA decided that Christians or Conservatives
couldn't be Scoutmasters.  After all, everyone knows that Christians
proselytize.  They might corrupt innocent boys into being Christians!

> But that doesn't change the FACT that hundreds and thousands of gay
> men EVERY YEAR can, and do change their sexual orientation.  Our
> very own Elf!! has admitted numerous times that he chooses to be
> bi-sexual.  It is quite rare to find a friend in this argument, but
> I'll take Elf's word that he did indeed CHOOSE to start sleeping
> with men.  

I see.  Everyone alive has Elf Sternberg's sexual script.  Right.

> You could just wake up tomorrow and decide that you have
> had enough sleeping around, worrying about AIDS or TB, and going
> through all the scorn that you receive as a result of your immoral
> behavior.  

Of course, the result of this choice may well be to find one man to settle down
with, just like many heteros choose to find one person of the opposite gender
to settle down with.

You're confusing homosexuality and promiscuity.  Poor logic.

>>But can you decide not to like women? Would you want people telling
>>you that inorder to be accepted you must never act on your heterosexual
>>urges? No sex ever, no marriage, no kids...
> 
> This is nonsense.

Why?
 
> You could just decide that women turn you on sexually.  Men do it all
> the time - we decide one week that tall skinny women turn us on.  Then
> we decide that short, muscular women with large breasts turn us on.
> Then we decide that medium sized, red-headed women with large breasts
> and Latin rear-ends turn us on.  I have never been attracted to women
> that are overweight - but no doubt if I suddenly saw some oppurtunity
> for sexual gratification (and if my wife didn't mind ;-), I'm sure I
> might suddenly find large women to be sexually attractive.  If you'd
> just realize that sexual gratification is available from members of the
> opposite sex, and then allow yourself to have a MEANINGFUL relationship
> with a member of the opposite sex, you'd see right away that you too
> can be heterosexual.

But can you decide that men turn you on sexually?

> The proof is in the machinations that you use to locate sex partners.
> Does that man attact you only because he is a man, or because he has
> the right "bear code" in his .signature?  Well, just change the "bear
> code" that you find attractive to include XX instead of XY and you are
> now heterosexual.  I've yet to find many heterosexuals that are
> attracted to the wide range of available partners.  Whites date and
> marry whites.  Jews date and marry Jews.  Cat people date and marry
> cat people.  Not because there is some "inborn" need for conservatives
> to breed almost exclusively with conservatives - but because we CHOOSE
> to be with certain people.

Look up the word "incompatibility".
 
-- 
Daniel B. Holzman                    | Eight Words the Witch's Rede Fufill:
HOLZMAN@FNAL.BITNET                  | An It Harm None, Do What You Will
HOLZMAN@FNALC.FNAL.GOV.INTERNET      |
                                     | All Acts of Love and Pleasure are
Love doesn't subtract,               | Her Rituals
   it multiplies    - Heinlein       |
TEAM STAR Charter Member             | Speak the Word.
Disclaimer:  Fermilab's far too large to have an opinion, let alone mine.