HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: COWAN@ssrl01.slac.stanford.edu (Paul L. Cowan)
Subject: Sunken roads.
Organization: CALIFORNIANS ON THE ORIENT EXPRESS
Date: Sat, 3 Oct 1992 15:53:28 GMT
X-News-Reader: VMS NEWS 1.24

This is from way out in left field, but exactly how does a road become
"sunken"?  For example, I could never understand how the "bloody lane"
near Sharpsburg got that way.  If it was water errosion, how come it didn't 
become so badly rutted that it became unusable as a road?  Even in the 
East, the roads surely hadn't been used long enough for the road bed 
to be lowered by several feet below the surrounding terrain simply by
wind and wagon wheel errosion.  What am I missing?



---------------------------------------------------------------------------
P. L. Cowan     Please send replies, comments etc. (no flames thank you) to 
COWAN@ANL.GOV  (I'm posting from my own account, but not the preferred one)
        "Gentlemen, you can't fight in here! This is a War Room!"
from _Dr._Strangelove_or:_How_I_Learned_to_Stop_Worrying_and_Love_the_Bomb_
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: rebeccal@csugrad.cs.vt.edu (Rebecca S. Lawrence)
Newsgroups: alt.war.civil.usa
Subject: just for curiousity's sake
Date: 30 Sep 92 02:47:11 GMT
Organization: Virginia Tech Computer Science Dept, Blacksburg, VA

For those of you who are interested, did you know that Virginia State
Police cars are grey on top and blue on bottom? This it because it 
symbolizes Virginia's split during the civil war.

-----
Becky Lawrence                |  I saw you two days ago, I saw you 
rebeccal@csugrad.cs.vt.edu    | yesterday, I saw you today, but I 
VPI & SU                      | must see you tomorrow as well....
Blacksburg, VA                |     I LOVE YOU KEVEN
-------------------------------------------------------------------
"The world tells boys to conquer the world, and girls to wear clean
panties. A man dressed as a bat is a he-man, but a woman dressed as
a cat is a she-devil. I'm just living down to expectations. Life's
a bitch - and so am I."   -----CATWOMAN
-- 
-----
Becky Lawrence                |  I saw you two days ago, I saw you 
rebeccal@csugrad.cs.vt.edu    | yesterday, I saw you today, but I 
VPI & SU                      | must see you tomorrow as well....
Newsgroups: alt.war.civil.usa
From: HADCRJAM@admin.uh.edu (MILLER, JIMMY A.)
Subject: Re: reenactments
Organization: University of Houston Administrative Computing
Date: Fri, 2 Oct 1992 20:52:54 GMT
X-News-Reader: VMS NEWS 1.20

In <009617D5.F0B70EC0@OCTAVO> jthoppers@OCTAVO writes:

> I have posted announcements for Civil War reenactments in the past, and 
> have seen other postings by others. Before I post any further 
> announcements I wanted to check with my fellow readers to make sure that 
> this was generally acceptable (there were several critical responses 
> previously). Any votes, yeah or nay?
> JTHoppers

  It certainly is no problem with me.  There was only one individual who seemed
to find it objectionable, anyway -- you get 3 guesses as to whom. :-)


semper fi,

Jammer Jim Miller 
Texas A&M University '89 and '91
********************************************************************************
* Speak for my employers?  They don't even know I exist!		       *
*"Become one with the Student Billing System. *BE* the Student Billing System."*
* "Power finds its way to those who take a stand.  Stand up, Ordinary Man."    *
*      ---Rik Emmet, Gil Moore, Mike Levine: Triumph 		               *
********************************************************************************
From: c34657b@saha.hut.fi (Tuomas Viljanen)
Newsgroups: alt.war
Subject: Re: Greatest Military Blunders of All Time
Date: 29 Sep 92 19:02:55 GMT
Organization: The Nibelungenlied Incorporated

In article <BvAIB0.ErM@news.cso.uiuc.edu> gt38091@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (Greg ) writes:
>The subject says it all:  ...just wondering what your thoughts are on the
>			      subject.

One of them could be the Winter War 1939-1940 by Stalin. Well, he got what he
wanted, but with a horrendous cost and needless sacrifice of the Soviet
soldiers.

Another can be read in my .sig; the massacre of the own crossbowmen by the
French chivalry at Crecy could well fit into this category.

Just wait, I'll make my bottom ten (or twenty).





  ++ Tuomas Viljanen                     ++ For a battle like Crecy, you do  ++
  ++ Lahderanta 20 A 19                  ++ not need a military genius like  ++
  ++ SF-02720 Espoo 72 FINLAND           ++ Edward III. All you need is an   ++
  ++ 358-0-592175 or c34657b@saha.hut.fi ++ idiot like the Duke of Alencon.  ++
Newsgroups: alt.war
From: buckley@ucsu.Colorado.EDU (BUCKLEY  CHARLES RAY)
Subject: Re: Greatest Military Blunders of All Time
Organization: University of Colorado, Boulder
Date: Tue, 6 Oct 1992 06:54:04 GMT

In article <1992Oct1.123401.12335@linus.mitre.org> bwise@hemlock.mitre.org (Barry Wise) writes:
>In article <14621@chalmers.se> d9bertil@dtek.chalmers.se (Bertil Jonell)  
>writes:
>> In article <1992Sep29.143955.28999@newstand.syr.edu> sawyer@erc.cat.syr.edu  
>(Russell W. Sawyer) writes:
>> >Battle at little big horn....  (Custer under estimating the Idians)
>> 
>>   According to the park rangers(?) there the indians had twice as many
>> winchesters as the cavalry had single shot rifles, so underestimating is an
>> understatement. In hindsight, it is hard to see any possible outcomes 
>> other than either custer avoiding the indians or his force goetting wiped  
>out.
>> 
>
>Splitting his force wasn't too bright either.
>
>--
>Barry Wise
It did however, save the lives of the other columns. This was also aided by
Reno's cold feet. As one of Reno's troops said later - If we hadn't have been
led by a coward , we would all be dead now. (Or at least a paraphrase of his
statement). In any case the battle at Little Bighorn only accounted for some
300 casualties on all sides. I for one think that it will forever be relegated
to second string status. Strategically, Terry's forced retreat sealed Custers
fate and decided the capaign long before Custer even arrived in the Little
Bighorn Valley.

Charles Buckley

Crecy gets my vote. My second place vote goes to Anzio.
>
>
From: manuel@clt50bv.edf.fr (Jose Manuel ESTEVEZ "clt50bx")
Newsgroups: alt.war
Subject: Re: Looking for history of religious wars
Date: 28 Sep 92 10:48:14 GMT
Organization: Electricite de France, DER, Clamart France

In article <1992Sep21.143105.11492@nntp.hut.fi>, c34657b@saha.hut.fi (Tuomas Viljanen) writes:
 
|> 
|> Still I would say more people has been killed in the name of Atheism than
|> any other religion...                                ---------------     
|> 
 							never I know a war atheism against religion but in the other way for the present Burma India Eire Egypt Israel Sudan and so on the other great type of war is racist war 


-- 
 Cordialement.
 =======================================================================
 | Jose Manuel ESTEVEZ           | Tel: +33 (1) 4765 4386              |
 | Electricite de France         | Fax: +33 (1) 4765 5173              |
 | 1 avenue du General de Gaulle | Email: manuel@clt50bw.edf.fr        |
 | 92141 Clamart                                                       |
 =======================================================================
Newsgroups: alt.war
From: emery@Dr_No.mitre.org (David Emery)
Subject: Re: Greatest Military Blunders of All Time
Organization: The Mitre Corp., Bedford, MA.
Date: Wed, 30 Sep 1992 14:07:22 GMT

Responsibility for this should be shared between Hitler, Rommel and
OKH (German Army high command).  OKM (Navy high command) can also
share in the blame.  Rommel was given the choice in the summer of '42
between continuing his advance into Egypt (which ended at El Alamein)
or waiting for an assault on Malta.  He took the former course (and
also the troops earmarked for the assault).  It's not clear that OKH
was really interested in the Malta assault.  OKM and Hitler should be
blamed for lack of 'strategic foresight' by not pushing for the
capture of Malta as key to the central Med. area.  

The assault should have occured in '41.  In fact, with 20-20
hindsight, taking Malta instead of Crete would have been a much better
choice. 
				dave


Newsgroups: alt.war
From: cashman@silver.ucs.indiana.edu (Geoff Cashman)
Subject: Re: Greatest Military Blunders of All Time
Organization: Indiana University
Date: Sun, 4 Oct 1992 06:21:24 GMT

In article <1qw3RB2w165w@netlink.cts.com> galan@netlink.cts.com (Greg Gross) writes:
>I claim no expertise. I only have certain personal "favorites," among 
>them:
>[...]
>7) The entire US strategy in Vietnam

I think it can be very effectively argued that Vietnam was not
a military blunder (though, as in all battles and wars, blunders
happened) but a political blunder. 


			- Geoff Cashman
Newsgroups: alt.war
From: pdunn@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (Patrick L Dunn)
Subject: Burnside was awful (was Re: Greatest Military Blunders of All time)
Organization: The Ohio State University
Date: Tue, 6 Oct 1992 08:30:13 GMT

In article <1992Oct4.190738.5166@sequent.com> dickwin@sequent.com (Dick Winning
stad) writes:
>Are we talking strategic or tactical?
>Strategic could be argued endlessly in what if senarios.  Tactical
>examples abound and are more arguable due to the concrete results.
>Enough of the philosophy now for my $0.02
>
>I was glad to finally see some U.S.  Civil War examples and Burnside's
>Fredericksburgh battle listed.  But an even dumber move, IMHO, was
>Burnside's Crater battle around Petersburg in 1864.  Great idea/bad
>excecution that cost thousands of casualties and wasted effort.
>Imagine, blowing up a huge section of the Confederate line and then
>sending the troops into the big hole with no ladders and not securing
>the edges of the crater!  If he had succeded the war might have ended
>there. But he didn't.
>
>
>+Dick Winningstad                                                    +

About six months ago I really cut into Burnside in another thread.  Burnside 
was a walking disaster.

PDunn
From: CMH114@psuvm.psu.edu
Newsgroups: alt.war
Subject: Re: Greatest Military Blunders of All Time
Date: 1 Oct 92 02:03:03 GMT
Organization: Penn State University

The french nobility charging the entrenched english across a muddy bog at
Agincourt strikes me as funny, if not the worst blunder of all time.

Mitch Hagmaier         One Moment in Annilihation's Waste,
Quest Laboratories     One Monent, of the Well of Life to taste-
Terraforming Division   The Stars are setting and the Caravan
State College, Pa      Starts for the Dawn of Nothing - Oh, make haste!
cmh114@psuvm.psu.edu
Newsgroups: alt.war
Subject: Re: Greatest Military Blunders of All Time
From: galan@netlink.cts.com (Greg Gross)
Date: Sat, 03 Oct 92 10:21:47 PDT
Organization: NetLink Online Communications, San Diego CA

gt38091@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (Greg ) writes:

> The subject says it all:  ...just wondering what your thoughts are on the
> 			      subject.
> 
> Greg


I claim no expertise. I only have certain personal "favorites," among 
them:
1) Crecy
2) Yorktown
3) Tie:  Cold Harbor-Fort Wagner
4) The Somme
5) Gallipoli
6) Arnhem
7) The entire US strategy in Vietnam

G.

--
Gregory Alan Gross      Welcome to life, where no good deed goes unpunished.
San Diego Union-Tribune         (619) 293-1270 (voice)
P.O. Box 191                    (619) 293-2333 (fax)
San Diego, CA 92112-4106        galan@netlink.cts.com (Internet)
From: clf@ecl.psu.edu
Newsgroups: alt.war
Subject: Re: Greatest Military Blunders of All Time
Date: 29 Sep 92 20:00:11 GMT
Organization: Engineering Computer Lab, Pennsylvania State University

In article <BvAIB0.ErM@news.cso.uiuc.edu>, gt38091@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (Greg ) writes:


	World War II

	The German failure to neutralize Malta while continuing with the
campaign in North Afrika.  Had Malta been neutralized and further, occupied
by the Axis, British shipping would have suffered loses and the Afrika Korp
would have received almost full supplies.  Therefore, perhaps punching
through to Cairo and the Suez Canal.

SS
Newsgroups: alt.war
From: regeorge@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (Robert E George)
Subject: Re: Greatest Military Blunders of All Time
Organization: The Ohio State University
Date: Mon, 28 Sep 1992 16:07:26 GMT

(1) Stalin not picking up the signals of Barbarossa;

(2) Wilhelm II building a Kriegsmarine strong enough to drive Britain into
the Entente (and depriving the Kaiserheer of a few army corps it could
have used well in 1914) but not so strong that it could break the Royal
Navy;

(3) Hitler's meddling on the Eastern Front;

(4) In the book "Germany's Military Strategy and Spain During World War II"
(approximate title -- if somebody's interested I'll try to find the exact
title) a German officer was quoted as saying that not taking Gibraltar
was a crucial German mistake in WWII. (I haven't thought about it enough
to know whether I agree or no -- just passing information along)

Robert George
(speaking only for myself)

"The very essence of individual freedom is equal justice under a rule of
law, a law to which every man shall be subject and which no executive
can modify."
    Senator Robert Taft , March 11, 1944
Newsgroups: alt.war
Subject: milatary blunders
From: bigbro@netlink.cts.com (Kenneth Sullivan)
Date: Thu, 01 Oct 92 17:55:01 PDT
Organization: NetLink Online Communications, San Diego CA

Hitler listening to his astrologer about the Luftwaffe was pretty stupid, 
good thing he did though.

--                    
INTERNET:  bigbro@netlink.cts.com (Kenneth Sullivan)
UUCP:   ...!ryptyde!netlink!bigbro
NetLink Online Communications * Public Access in San Diego, CA (619) 453-1115
From: gt38091@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (Greg )
Newsgroups: alt.war
Subject: Greatest Military Blunders of All Time
Date: 28 Sep 92 13:18:34 GMT
Organization: University of Illinois at Urbana

The subject says it all:  ...just wondering what your thoughts are on the
			      subject.

Greg
Newsgroups: alt.war
From: tobeor@pmafire.inel.gov (Ray Hoover)
Date: Thu, 1 Oct 92 14:30:35 GMT
Organization: WINCO
Subject: Re: Greatest Military Blunders of All Time
Summary: 
Followup-To: 
Organization: WINCO
Keywords: 

In article <1992Sep29.160011.5088@ecl.psu.edu> clf@ecl.psu.edu writes:
>In article <BvAIB0.ErM@news.cso.uiuc.edu>, gt38091@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (Greg ) writes:
>
>
>	World War II
>
>	The German failure to neutralize Malta while continuing with the
>campaign in North Afrika.  Had Malta been neutralized and further, occupied
>by the Axis, British shipping would have suffered loses and the Afrika Korp
>would have received almost full supplies.  Therefore, perhaps punching
>through to Cairo and the Suez Canal.
>
>SS

a
although not taking Malta was a mistake, there were some good reasons for postponing the invasion.  Basically Hitler gambled that Rommel would break through British lines and would be able to reach Cairo and the Suez canal.  Had Rommel succeeded, the importance of Malta would have been greatly lessened, British shipping would have been completely disrupted, and the British military would have had to redeploy a massive amount of war equipment and personnel as a result.
From: olsenm@ucs.orst.edu
Newsgroups: alt.war
Subject: Re: Why do wars start? (was: Re: Looking fo
Date: 28 Sep 92 23:51:45 GMT
Organization: TheNews

Why do wars start?

Because people are stupid!

Doesn't take a degree to figure that one out.
Newsgroups: alt.war
From: sawyer@erc.cat.syr.edu (Russell W. Sawyer)
Subject: Re: Greatest Military Blunders of All Time
Organization: Electronic Resource Center, Syracuse
Date: Tue, 29 Sep 92 14:39:55 EDT

Battle at little big horn....  (Custer under estimating the Idians)
From: v151luy2@ubvmsb.cc.buffalo.edu (Scott D McGinnis)
Newsgroups: alt.war
Subject: Re: Greatest Military Blunders of All Time
Date: 28 Sep 92 17:06:00 GMT
Organization: University at Buffalo
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41


	Nicopolis.

	`Nuff said.

						Flashman.

P.S.:The Charge of the Light Brigade is up there too.
From: mst@vexpert.dbai.tuwien.ac.at (Markus Stumptner)
Newsgroups: alt.war
Subject: Re: Greatest Military Blunders of All Time
Date: 29 Sep 92 23:04:37 GMT
Organization: DB and ES Subdivision, TU Vienna

From article <1992Sep29.160011.5088@ecl.psu.edu>, by clf@ecl.psu.edu:
> 	The German failure to neutralize Malta while continuing with the
> campaign in North Afrika.

As far as I know, that fault was Rommel's own.  Plans for the conquest
of Malta (Operation Hercules) had been drawn up and forces set aside,
when Rommel requested use of those forces to pursue the British after
his victory at Gazala.  He got what he wanted, over the protests of
Kesselring and the general staff.  Nobody can be right all of the
time.
-- 
Markus Stumptner                                mst@vexpert.dbai.tuwien.ac.at
University of Technology Vienna                 vexpert!mst@relay.eu.net
Paniglg. 16, A-1040 Vienna, Austria             ...mcsun!vexpert!mst
From: d9bertil@dtek.chalmers.se (Bertil Jonell)
Newsgroups: alt.war
Subject: Re: Greatest Military Blunders of All Time
Date: 30 Sep 92 09:18:12 GMT
Organization: Chalmers University of Technology

In article <1992Sep29.143955.28999@newstand.syr.edu> sawyer@erc.cat.syr.edu (Russell W. Sawyer) writes:
>Battle at little big horn....  (Custer under estimating the Idians)

  According to the park rangers(?) there the indians had twice as many
winchesters as the cavalry had single shot rifles, so underestimating is an
understatement. In hindsight, it is hard to see any possible outcomes 
other than either custer avoiding the indians or his force goetting wiped out.

-bertil-
--
"It can be shown that for any nutty theory, beyond-the-fringe political view or
 strange religion there exists a proponent on the Net. The proof is left as an
 exercise for your kill-file."
		"Revive the Swedish-Madagascan Brigand Pact!"
From: kim@i5160e.nrl.navy.mil (Ellis Kim)
Newsgroups: alt.aeffle.und.pferdle
Subject: ich glaab's net!!
Date: 26 Sep 92 17:06:10 GMT
Organization: The Catholic University of America

Da sitze ich an meinem terminal in washington, DC und finde ne newsgroup
betitled alt.aeffle.und.pferdle.
Ich werd' verrueckt!  
Seit wann gibt's die denn?
was ist ihre "charter"?
gibt's hier auch ein paar FAQs?
wenn ja, kann mir die jemand schicken?
-- jetzt krieg' ich awa heimweh.

-- 

-- Ellis   kim@v5160.nrl.navy.mil
   "First things first. But not necessarily in that order." - Dr. Who
Newsgroups: alt.aeffle.und.pferdle
From: MICHAEL.WILLETT@OFFICE.WANG.COM ("Michael Willett")
Subject: Re: RAID 7 Systemen fuer Lans und Workstations Jetzt in Baden-W.
Organization: Mail to News Gateway at Wang Labs
Date: 02 Oct 92 13:54:29 EST

Guten Tag Meine Damen und Herren in Baden-Wuerttemberg!

Fragen Sie bitte die Leute in Frankfurt ueber dies, nicht mich.  Ich habe
keine zusatzliche Auskunft bei mir.  Danke Schoen!

Regarding John Scoggin's request for information on RAID systems for
VINES, Storage Computer of Nashua, N.H. is currently showing its new high
performance RAID 7 disk array platforms at the September International VINES
User Meeting.  SCSI-based, they work equally well with NetWare, workstations,
IBM systems, VAXes, etc.  I found out that Storage Computer has just opened
up its new European headquarters in Frankfurt.  The telephone there is
(49) 6917-2145.  The FAX is (49) 6917-2149.  (Der Geschaeftsfuehrer is
Deutsche, wie die VBs.)

Standards-based, RAID 7 is designed for enterprise-wide computing and
overcomes performance limitations of earlier RAID architectures, providing
a  "real world sustained application performance improvement of 200% to
400%" and dropping the cost of storage to 16 cents/MB.  Their brochures
say they can "mix and match" up to 48 SCSI commodity (3.5 or 5.25 inch)
drives, up to 150 GB.  The RAID 7 disk array platforms come with an embedded
operating system and up to 12 SCSI-2 based host interfaces.  Besides servers,
Storage Computer's RAID 7 disk array platforms can connect to workstations
and midrange systems in addition to IBM's.  Multiple CPUs can be attached to
same disk array platform.

The RAID 7 platforms come with up to 256 MB of cache, eliminating any
reason for using performance-damaging CPU main memory disk RAM.

The drives are "hot plugable" for uninterrupted, transparent operation,
with a hot standby drive automatically replacing a failed drive.

There was a lot of activity this week at the Storage Computer RAID 7 booth
at the Boston Banyan show as I walked by.  They were demoing what happens if
a drive goes down, showing the backup drive taking over.

For further information on Storage Computer's RAID 7 for any system, their
key US contact is indicated to be John O'Brien, Director of Technical
Services at Tel. 603-880-3005 or FAX 603-889-7232.  (Aber die Leute hier
haben gesagt es wuerde besser fuer Europaeishe Firmen Frankfurt am erst
anzurufen.  Sie sind sehr beschaeftigt hier nur mit US Auftraege im
Augenblick.)

Michael.Willett@OFFICE.Wang.com
Newsgroups: alt.aeffle.und.pferdle
From: rajchak@athena.mit.edu (Rajat Chakraborty)
Subject: test
Keywords: test
Organization: Massachusetts Institute of Technology
Date: Wed, 30 Sep 1992 01:15:33 GMT

ignore...test only
Newsgroups: alt.aeffle.und.pferdle
From: MICHAEL.WILLETT@OFFICE.WANG.COM ("Michael Willett")
Subject: Re: RAID 7 Systemen in Stuttgart und Karlsruhe
Organization: Mail to News Gateway at Wang Labs
Date: 06 Oct 92 12:27:04 EST

Weisst jemand welche RAID Systemen sind die meist installiert in
Stuttgart und Karlruhe?  Hat DG ihre RAID systemen schoen installiert da?

----------------------Michael.Willett@OFFICE.Wang.com--------------------

-------------------------------------------------------------------------

Regarding John Scoggin's request for information on RAID systems for
VINES, Storage Computer of Nashua, N.H. is currently showing its new high
performance RAID 7 disk array platforms at the September International VINES
User Meeting.  SCSI-based, they work equally well with NetWare, workstations,
IBM systems, VAXes, etc.  I found out that Storage Computer has just opened
up its new European headquarters in Frankfurt.  The telephone there is
(49) 6917-2145.  The FAX is (49) 6917-2149.  (Der Geschaeftsfuehrer is
Deutsche, wie die VBs.)

Standards-based, RAID 7 is designed for enterprise-wide computing and
overcomes performance limitations of earlier RAID architectures, providing
a  "real world sustained application performance improvement of 200% to
400%" and dropping the cost of storage to 16 cents/MB.  Their brochures
say they can "mix and match" up to 48 SCSI commodity (3.5 or 5.25 inch)
drives, up to 150 GB.  The RAID 7 disk array platforms come with an embedded
operating system and up to 12 SCSI-2 based host interfaces.  Besides servers,
Storage Computer's RAID 7 disk array platforms can connect to workstations
and midrange systems in addition to IBM's.  Multiple CPUs can be attached to
same disk array platform.

The RAID 7 platforms come with up to 256 MB of cache, eliminating any
reason for using performance-damaging CPU main memory disk RAM.

The drives are "hot plugable" for uninterrupted, transparent operation,
with a hot standby drive automatically replacing a failed drive.

There was a lot of activity this week at the Storage Computer RAID 7 booth
at the Boston Banyan show as I walked by.  They were demoing what happens if
a drive goes down, showing the backup drive taking over.

For further information on Storage Computer's RAID 7 for any system, their
key US contact is indicated to be John O'Brien, Director of Technical
Services at Tel. 603-880-3005 or FAX 603-889-7232.  (Aber die Leute hier
haben gesagt es wuerde besser fuer Europaeishe Firmen Frankfurt am erst
anzurufen.  Sie sind sehr beschaeftigt hier nur mit US Auftraege im
Augenblick.)

Michael.Willett@OFFICE.Wang.com