From: mdm@mondy.uucp (Michael Mondy)
Subject: Re: The question of Experience
Keywords: college job hiring
Organization: Mondy and Associates
Date: Thu, 17 Dec 1992 06:11:32 GMT

In article <1992Dec12.230549.27566@netcom.com> pdh@netcom.com (Phil Howard ) writes:
>john@newave.newave.mn.org (John A. Weeks III) writes:
>>College is a game.  You might know this stuff, but a college degree is
>>proof that you have the ability to learn under pressure and stick with
>>a job for 4 years until it is complete.  Simply by having a degree, you
>>have credibility.  If you want a job without a degree, you need to find
>>a way to fill this credibility gap.  One way might be to have references
>>from a major development project that you worked on.
>
>Sticking to something has been used quite often as a measure of quality in
>an individual, but I do need to point out an alternative.  Of course one's
>ability to stick to something when there is real benefit to be gained is
>certainly a proper measure of quality.  But what if that thing happens to
>turn out to not be of real benefit?  I would consider someone's ability to
>RECOGNIZE that, and to be DECISIVE about what they are going to do to be
>as much a measure of quality.

Yes, it is nice if someone doesn't have a "one-track-mind" and can
recognize a mistake and even better act to correct the situation.
This is a good explanation of why someone might not get a degree.
However, as John states:
   o The ability to "stick to it" is necessary.
   o Having a degree is one demonstration of the ability to "stick to it".
   o If you don't have this commonly held demonstration (the degree), your
     ability in to "stick to it" is in doubt.

When you hire someone you want to know (among other things):
   Can he/she do the job?
   Will he/she do the job?

Looking at just the issue of the ability to "stick to it", what might be
going through an employer's mind when interviewing someone who has decided
that college wasn't "worth it"?
    Suppose the employee and the employer both see "real benefit"
    in some project.  Further, suppose that after a while the
    employee decides that there is no real benefit after all.
    Can and will he still do what he has committed to do?  Or will
    he exhibit a lack of motivation and start finding problems and
    reasons for delays?  Or perhaps the quality of work will suffer?  
    
Some of the above happened with someone I once worked with; I found it
frustrating and disappointing.  The problems appeared legitimate,
yet I am sure that had the individual not lost interest and gone
into a depression then the work would have progressed better.

Anyone can find faults with college and there are very good people that
can outperform the majority of degree holders.  However, the workplace
(generally) sees benefit in having that degree.  If I am an employer,
can you get the degree which I see benefit in?  If not, I want to know
why.  Are you unable to stick to things?  Perhaps you only have 
successful results when working on something that you can retain
short-term excitement about?  You'd better have some successes to
ally my fears.

Worse yet, suppose the employer just has unconscious negative vibes about
the lack of a degree?  What if, as is typical, the employer more easily
remembers problems with non-degreed people than he/she remembers successes
with non-degreed people?  What percentage of the employers fit in these
categories?  Most, I'd suspect.

Two contrasting examples of non-degreed programmers come to mind.  One
has a real problem with "sticking to it".  The other has no such problem.
I am not suggesting that computer professionals who do not have degrees
have some problem that made it difficult to get that degree and that the
same problem will cause difficulties in the workplace.  I do believe that
a previous poster was correct when he stated that the lack of a degree will
raise a credibility doubt with some (most?) potential employers.

Anybody have statistics on any of this?

Mike, who has a degree, but currently has no work.