HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: silva@pangea.Stanford.EDU (Holly Silva)
Subject: Re: Irish Rejects Associated (IRA)
Organization: Stanford Univ. Earth Sciences
Date: Wed, 14 Oct 1992 21:16:45 GMT

 dbrooks@osf.org (David Brooks) writes:
> (Dave Shariff Yadallee) writes:
>|>    What if one state in the Union decided to seceed and was not allowed to, say
>|> Texas.  Wouldn't you expect a group of Texans to form an independence group
>|> having a covert civil war in Texas and random bomb attacks in the rest of
>|> the country?  How would you fe[e]l.?
>
>How would you feel, furthermore, if they found safe haven in Mexico, and
>got continuous fundraising boosts from ignorant bigots in Spain?
>-- 

	Bad example. This is effectively what Texas did, in reverse,
in the 1830-40's. Texans (Anglo emigres from the US) broke away from Mexico
and received logistical support from their erstwhile compatriots in 
the US. Mexico was not pleased, but ensuing events (the Mexican-American
War of 1846-8) displeased them even more.
	It's also a rather bad example as an analogy to the impact/status
of Noraid in the States, and Noraid's true value to the PIRA and the like.
There are +35 million people in the US who lay some partial claim to
Irish ancestry; from this vast number of potential donors, Noraid
gleans ~$500,000.00 a year (a massive sum, eh?). The analogous
'ignorant bigots' in America are very few in number and influence --
except in the eyes of the British and Irish publics, and their newsmedia,
who seem to rather desperately need agent provocateurs from the 
US. Perhaps in order to avoid serious examination of those members 
of their own societies who act in support of the terrorists.

>David Brooks					dbrooks@osf.org


--
======================================================================
|| Holly Silva			I have nothing terribly clever to say||
|| Applied Earth Sciences	today.  You're in luck.		     ||
|| Stanford University						     ||
From: odlin@reed.edu (Iain Odlin)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.celtic
Subject: Re: SNL 10/4/92- What did Sinead tear up?
Date: 8 Oct 92 02:38:54 GMT
Organization: The Stuffed Animal Trauma Team  (We're Trained Professionals)

In article <1992Oct7.184316.24102@nlm.nih.gov> neve@nlm.nih.gov writes:
>Given Catholicism's history of backwardness on social issues, and in particular
>those relating to women (a matter about which Ms. O'Conner is well qualified
>to have an opinion) , the attacks do not seem out of place.

  Okay:  It would not be inappropriate, therefore, for me to go to India to
  kill and eat a sacred cow simply because I'm a well-qualified hamburger-
  eater (and the folks who worship cows are just backward people anyway)?

  'Reductio ad absurdiam' perhaps, but it gets the point across.  Think about
  it.
-- 
 --------------------------------- Iain Odlin ---------------------------------
                  10 Crosby Street, Level 3, Portland ME 04103
                                 odlin@reed.edu
 -------------- One man's theology is another man's belly laugh. --------------
Newsgroups: soc.culture.celtic
From: ntaib@silver.ucs.indiana.edu (Iskandar Taib)
Subject: Re: Celtic Holidays
Keywords: Celtic, holidays
Organization: Indiana University
Date: Mon, 12 Oct 1992 15:16:22 GMT

In article <1992Oct3.171458.1092@news.nd.edu> ulick@angelico.helios.nd.edu (Ulick Stafford) writes:

>The June Bankholiday.  First holiday weekend of the summer - the first
>Monday of June.  It is a 'fixed' Whitsun.

What _is_ a "Whitsun" and what the heck is a "Bank" holiday?




-- 
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Iskandar Taib                          | The only thing worse than Peach ala
Internet: NTAIB@SILVER.UCS.INDIANA.EDU |    Frog is Frog ala Peach
Bitnet:   NTAIB@IUBACS                 !
From: folse@crs.cl.msu.edu (Mark Folse)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.celtic
Subject: Buggy mail program
Date: 15 Oct 92 20:06:41 GMT
Reply-To: folse@crs.cl.msu.edu.UUCP (Mark Folse)
Organization: Michigan State University




Don't  want to waste anymore badnwidth but only to apologize for buggy
mail program rendering several of my posts unintelligible. Thanx.
From: dam@dcs.glasgow.ac.uk (David Morning)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.celtic
Subject: Re: Sinead O'Connor's cute little performance
Date: 7 Oct 92 15:30:57 GMT
Organization: Glasgow University Computing Science Dept.

adam@castle.ed.ac.uk (Adam Hamilton) writes:

>In article <Bvqw9C.5Jp@dcs.glasgow.ac.uk> dam@dcs.glasgow.ac.uk (David Morning) writes:
>:gln@cs.arizona.edu (Gary L. Newell) writes:
>:>Is she Catholic?
>:
>:I believe so.
>:
>	It seems very unlikely, though she may have been born into a Catholic
>family.  There is (should be) a difference, you know

According to the report on EBC Radio 4 she goes around wearing a T shirt
with the logo "Recovering Catholic" printed on it. Dunno if she's a practising
Catholic which, as you point out, is unlikely or was simply born a Catholic.
The original poster didn't ask.

Dave
--
From: trifid@agora.rain.com (Roadster Racewerks)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.celtic
Subject: Need help with museum piece/cup/"mether"
Date: 15 Oct 92 09:40:41 GMT
Organization: Open Communications Forum



I'm in a pickle. I want to carve for my household use a "mether", the old
Irish "friendship cup" with four (or less) handles and four lips to drink from.
I have a very nice illustration...a scientific-grade etching from the turn of
the century. Lots of detail, remarks on the kind of wood usually used, in fact
*everything* except a single solitary word on how *big* the thinks usually
were! (And the illustration either never had any common object shown for scale
reference, or the editors of the book cropped them out of the pictures...)-:

Can anybody here help me? The book was published in Ireland, so I imagine the
original items are there. I've only found one other set of illustrations, from
a book on early Scotland, and once again, no sizes given (although they may be
illustrated at full size). If I'm going to all the trouble to make a reproduc-
tion, I don't want to guess if at all possible to avoid it...

Help? Please?

Suze
trifid@agora.rain.com
From: halpin@vax.oxford.ac.uk
Newsgroups: soc.culture.celtic
Subject: <None>
Date: 16 Oct 92 18:05:52 GMT
Organization: Oxford University VAX 6620

In article <1992Oct15.181934.8772@infodev.cam.ac.uk>,
ag129@cus.cam.ac.uk (Alasdair Grant) writes:
> In article <Bw605L.tG@dcs.glasgow.ac.uk> newt@dcs.glasgow.ac.uk
(Michael Steven Newton) writes:
>>  Don't be a Tory stooge.  The issue is not about religion, it's about
>>  culture and sovereignty.  The religion myth is encouraged by the
>>  English who want to keep any group of people in Ireland from being a
>>  cohesive nationalist force.
> 
> So are you saying that there is, for example, no discrimination (in
> employment etc.) against Catholics because they're Catholic? This is an
> interesting point of view.  And surely it's significant that the most
> outspoken Unionist leader (the Revd. Ian Paisley) is a priest?

Absolutely right! Catholics are discriminated against only because
they believe in that abomination, transubstatiation. We must save
Ulster from the Whore of Babylon...

...

Religion is one aspect of the cultural difference between two
groups. The conflicts are not based on religion, but it's a very
convenient way of telling who's who, and of reinforcing group
identity. Paisley probably has got deep-seated religiously based
hatred of Catholicism, but that's because he's a fundamentalist,
and it's not typical. The main underlying dimension of the problem
is that you've got two ethnically distinct groups which have
managed to remain demographically _fairly_ distinct, and culturally
very distinct, even over a period of three centuries. Some people
make a more political analysis of the situation, in terms of how
this separateness has been manipulated and intensified for
political reasons; this is plausible, but I don't know enough to
judge.

As a tangent from the "culturally distinct" theme: the cultural
differences between the Unionist and Nationalist populations are
distinct, but hugely less than those between Unionists and the
English. I heard Jim Molyneaux on TV once saying how NI emigrants
to Britain had a much easier time than people from the Republic,
having already got the right attitudes, etc. Such a lot of bollox!
"We're all Paddies over here."

Similarly, I once attended a debate in Oxford between Seamus Mallon
and Ken McGuinness (each with a retinue of respectively two
nationalist NI students/one Labour politician, two Unionist NI
students/one Conservative politician). As can be imagined, there
was a completely clear split in attitude, complete consensus within
the camps. Until Ken McGuinness mentioned in passing his strong
opposition to abortion. Uproar! And magically there was sudden
complete unity within the whole NI group, two English politicians
looking completely uncomfortable, and chaos in the house. 

We're a conservative bunch, whichever foot we dig with.

Brendan.

PS: I've often wondered what NI computer people think of File
Transfer Protocol ... :-)
From: morna@dcs.ed.ac.uk (Morna J Findlay)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.celtic
Subject: Re: <None>
Date: 8 Oct 92 12:56:16 GMT
Reply-To: morna@dcs.ed.ac.uk (Morna J Findlay)
Organization: Laboratory for the Foundations of Computer Science, Edinburgh U

In article <1992Oct7.130847.2218@drycas.club.cc.cmu.edu> shazam@drycas.club.cc.cmu.edu writes:
>
>He mentioned that these people (poor people?) "lack real access
>to contraceptives".  That is not true.  Parents who have children,
>where there is only one parent in the home, receive free birth
>control.  

Isn't it a bit late by then :-(





>They have to chose to use it.  

I think you're being a bit harsh, myself. Not every woman has that much
control over her own life, unfortunately.

And...  everyone can have wee accidents ( Hello Rosie!) it's just that us
more well-off folk can "afford" them - in more ways than one.

M


--
Morna Findlay 					JANET:morna@uk.ac.ed.dcs 
	Thanksgiving For a National Victory (Robert Burns)
Ye hypocrites! are these your pranks? To murder men and give God thanks?
Desist, for shame! Proceed no further: God won't accept your thanks for murther.
Newsgroups: soc.culture.celtic
From: sej5g@curry.edschool.Virginia.EDU (Susie Juroff)
Subject: Re: Sinead O'Connor's cute little performance
Organization: University of Virginia
Date: Fri, 16 Oct 1992 04:38:01 GMT

Folks - a) old Rasta believes that Haile Selassie is the living
God, but newer, more modern Rasta has, shall we say, evolved a
little. b)why does everybody keep harping on the dreads?  It's
a cultural thing, not a requirement or (necessarily) an
expression of religion!
The thing that I would guess appeals to Sinead about Rasta is
their belief that God is actively everywhere, including
(especially!) in ourselves - a part, a real part, of each of us.
Hence the Rasta saying "I and I" this is God and I, the
two-part me. God and I are going for a walk, this is what God
and I think. Language reflects belief - imagine genuinely
feeling that close to God, that worthy of God.
 In an MTV Europe interview, Sinead was saying that
she thought the Church takes God away from us, makes Him so
divine, sacred, special, that we are too common to touch Him,
to know Him, that they oppress us (in many other ways, as well)
by denying us access to God except through those more holy than
we. She believes that the abuse that has been perpetuated by the
Church and its system on us causes us to abuse each other and
our children - that we have been made to feel not good enough
for God. And I think she's also thinking about just how much
oppression and terror have been handed down by the Church in
the name of God and Christianity. Her actions don't speak well
for themselves, but if people would listen a little harder to
what she's saying, they might not judge her so harshly. And who
are all these wonderful Christian folks, attacking and judging?
Judge not, lest ye be judged, how can you see a speck in your
brother's eye when there is a beam in your own, etc. Any
judgement anyone calls down on Sinead is mega hypocritical. She
attacks one thing and they attack her. Makes a heap o' sense.
Have I been asleep while the central message of Christianity
became revenge and judgement?
--
From: cockburn@edieng.enet.dec.com (Craig Cockburn)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.celtic
Subject: Re: Big Country, the rock group
Date: 12 Oct 92 16:23:58 GMT
Article-I.D.: rdg.1992Oct12.162531.26587
Organization: Digital Equipment Co. Ltd., Reading, England


In article <1992Oct11.191818.15628@u.washington.edu>, cyberoid@stein.u.washington.edu (Robert Jacobson) writes...
> 
>My mate, a woman of good Scottish stock, and I have been fans of the
>Scottish rock group, Big Country, for over a decade...but we haven't
>heard hide nor hair of them in the last several years.  The last Big
>Country album we have is Peace in Our Time, really a great concert.
> 
>Is Big Country still in existence?  Are they playing gigs?  Do they
>have new albums out since PIOT?  And how can we get in touch, so that
>if we are able to visit next year, we can plan to take in a concert?
> 
Big Country were at last year's Mod fringe in Dingwall I believe.

You should try getting some Runrig. Runrig supported big Country a few
times, but are now Scotland's most popular band. They sound similar to
Big Country, only that Big Country are no longer very popular whereas
Runrig's concerts sell out in hours.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------
  Craig Cockburn, Digital Equipment Co. Ltd, Reading, England.     Suas
  Internet: cockburn@edieng.enet.dec.com                           leis
  UUCP:..!decwrl!edieng.enet.dec.com!cockburn                      a'
                                                                   Gha\idhlig!
  Views here are my own, and are not necessarily those of Digital
From: cc@dcs.ed.ac.uk (Chris Cooke)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.celtic
Subject: Re: Scottish Newsgroup
Date: 16 Oct 92 12:12:39 GMT
	<1992Oct8.205636.12854@rdg.dec.com> <Bw0pwJ.JAw@usenet.ucs.indiana.edu>
	<james.719183614@wrs.com>
Organization: Department of Computer Science, University of Edinburgh, Scotland

In article <james.719183614@wrs.com> james@wrs.com (James Moore) writes:

   I just called the US Department of Agriculture.  The basic rule is that
   meat imports depend on the disease status of a country, and currently
   you can't import any meat products from the UK.

Probably because of Mad Cow Disease, I suppose.  I seem to remember reading
recently that 60000 cows have now died of this.
--
	-- Chris. 	cc@dcs.ed.ac.uk   (on Janet, cc@uk.ac.ed.dcs)
From: mmh@cs.qmw.ac.uk (Matthew Huntbach)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.celtic
Subject: Re: Sinead O'Connor's cute little performance
Date: 8 Oct 92 07:58:58 GMT
Organization: Computer Science Dept, QMW, University of London, UK.

From: wb9tow@bluegrass.ecn.purdue.edu (Steven A Marquie)
> I'm tring to understand present day Celtica.  I would think Sinead
>O'Connor's actions would have been applauded by some.  After all, Catholics
>stole our religion, destroyed our way of life, and exicuted tens of
>thousands in order to spread their way.  Why let them continue taking
>our morals from us?
>       Sorry all, just wanted to give an artist support and give one wiccan's
>opinion.

Oh, come on, the conversion of Ireland from paganism was
remarkably peaceful. St Patrick, St Columba et al were not
warriors. Irish culture and catholicism are intimately linked,
not at oppostion to each other.

As for "wiccan", "wicca" is a Anglo-Saxon word, not a Celtic
word. Twits who cannot even distinguish between ancient
Germanic practices and ancient Celtic practices and anyone
else's practices that they can prat around with without having
to think too much ought to be sent off to a decent university
library to do several months serious reading of dry academic
books on ancient history.

As for Ms.O'Connor's views, they are typical of someone who was
brought up badly in Catholicism and rejected the faith. They
are totally unremarkable, and teh fact that Ms.O'Connor is good
at singing does not make her views on any other matter any more
important than anyone else's.

Matthew Huntbach
From: cc@dcs.ed.ac.uk (Chris Cooke)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.celtic
Subject: Re: now no longer Re: My Ugly American post for the year....
Date: 9 Oct 92 11:52:40 GMT
	<1992Oct7.094252.9308@vax.oxford.ac.uk>
	<1992Oct8.153206.15795@news.nd.edu>
Organization: Department of Computer Science, University of Edinburgh, Scotland

In article <1992Oct8.153206.15795@news.nd.edu> ulick@stravinsky.helios.nd.edu (Ulick Stafford) writes:

   In article <1992Oct7.094252.9308@vax.oxford.ac.uk> halpin@vax.oxford.ac.uk writes:
   >heuristic American is more likely to be heard enthusing about real
   >ale, or fine English cheeses, or complaining about Brussels banning
   >prawn-cocktail flavour crisps. 

   What!!!  When and why did they do this?  Eurocrats are getting ridiculous.
   Banning all packageing in non-standard sizes was one thing, but prawn
   cocktail flavoured crisps!!!  Are pork scratchings next?

It was something to do with banning artificial sweeteners in snack products,
I seem to remember.  Probably made perfect sense in Luxembourg, but it had
the side-effect of banning most flavours of crisps.

Another thing the commission have done is to declare that carrots are fruit.

(They banned vegetables from jam, then found out that carrot jam is really
popular in Portugal; so rather than rescind their earlier decision they had
to declare that carrots were fruit, not vegetables...)
--
	-- Chris. 	cc@dcs.ed.ac.uk   (on Janet, cc@uk.ac.ed.dcs)
From: cla04@seq1.keele.ac.uk (A.T. Fear)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.celtic
Subject: Re: Celts-Christianity-Catholicism
Date: 16 Oct 92 08:13:35 GMT
Organization: Keele University, England

From article <1992Oct15.191713.16098@noose.ecn.purdue.edu>, by wb9tow@bluegrass.ecn.purdue.edu (Steven A Marquie):
> My Goddess was experienced long before jesus or any
> other christian beliefs.   

Now which goddess would that be? One of the most depressing aspects of
all this is the way that the witch cult tries to cobble together various
disparate pagan cults and create a continuity out of them that just isn't there.
I suppose the most bizarre attempt to do this with regard to witchcraft
was Magret Murray. Isn't there something slightly self-indulgent about pick and mix
religion like this?

>         My religion is tied to mother earth and nature and has nothing..
> absolutely nothing to do with anything christion.!!!!!!!!!

Sorry in return, 'The Earth is the Lord's and the fullness thereof' -
worshipping the earth is getting there I suppose, because the Lord's
glory is reflected in his creation. However I suggest you give worshipping the creator rather than
his works a try. It's more satisfying, honest, but be warned it's also
highly addictive.

God Bless,

Andy
From: ulick@stravinsky.helios.nd.edu (Ulick Stafford)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.celtic
Subject: Re: Scottish Newsgroup
Date: 8 Oct 92 15:35:47 GMT
Organization: OUC, University of Notre Dame

>In article <1992Oct7.221811.25815@philmtl.philips.ca> ray@philmtl.philips.ca (Ray Dunn) writes:
>>
>>Unfortunately neither the US nor Canadian Customs allow _any_ meat products
>>to be imported privately.  Foot 'n mouth, Mad English Disease, things like
>>that you know.

I have never had a problem.  When I come back I always fill in the yes to
have you been on a farm or are you bringing back any meat, etc.  I hand to
the customs guy and walk straight through.  What`s the problem?


+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ 
+ 'There was a  master come unto the earth, + Ulick Stafford, PP-ASEL       +
+    born in the holy land of Indiana,      + Dept of Chemical Engineering, +
+ in the mystical hills east of Fort Wayne'.+ Notre Dame, IN 46556          +
+      B'fhearr liom bheith ag eitilt.      +    ulick@bach.helios.nd.edu   +
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
From: spain@galvia.enet.dec.com
Newsgroups: soc.culture.celtic
Subject: Re: Sinead O'Connor's cute little performance
Date: 7 Oct 92 15:57:58 GMT
Article-I.D.: rdg.1992Oct7.155758.20509
Reply-To: spain@galvia.enet.dec.com ()
Organization: Digital Equipment Corporation

--

In article <1992Oct7.135926.16886@news.nd.edu>, ulick@angelico.helios.nd.edu (Ulick Stafford) writes:

|>>
|>>what makes any person more or less "legitimate" than any other? and
|>>who are you to say so?
|>>
|>>snarl, er, flame off, 
|>>
|>
|>You're right.  I should have said her bastard child.  Sorry, I do not know
|>(nor would I use it if I did) the politically correct term for whelp
|>born out of wedlock.  You could ask your government.  I believe they have
|>this distinction.

Ouch.  Guess you're going to get a lot of flaming email messages.

As for the subject in question, Sinead loves publicity however I think she
is sincere.  Her dramaticism means he point gets lost and means she
makes a lot of enemies for herself.  She's a very talented musician and
she'd be better off to stick to the day job.

       Gary Spain, DEC, Galway, Ireland   - spain@galvia.enet.dec.com

  On being a football fan: "I am aware of the downside to this wonderful 
  facility that men have: they become repressed, they fail in their 
  relationships with women,their conversation is trivial and boorish, they 
  find themselves unable to express their emotional needs, they cannot relate
  to their children, and die lonely and miserable. But you know, what the hell?"
								   Nick Hornby
From: alisonjw@spider.co.uk (Alison J Wyld)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.celtic
Subject: Re: Celts-Christianity-Catholicism
Date: 16 Oct 92 13:11:36 GMT
Organization: Spider Systems Limited, Edinburgh, UK.

In article <1992Oct13.201704.6386@noose.ecn.purdue.edu> wb9tow@bluegrass.ecn.purdue.edu (Steven A Marquie) writes:
>	As a Wiccan, I practice certain Celtic religious beliefs that predate 
>catholicism by several hundred years.  In particular tramsmigration.  (Matthew

It is surprising then that you do not have a celtic word to describe
your beliefs and practices.  Why do you insist on using an anglo-saxon
one ?

alison

(I mean, hey, believe what you want, practice what you want - just
don't claim its anything my ancestors would recognise)
From: downey@enh.nist.gov
Newsgroups: soc.culture.celtic
Subject: Re: Celts-Christianity-Catholicism
Date: 13 Oct 92 15:17:33 GMT
Organization: NIST


I wrote earlier:
>>Come on guys, do you have to be so harsh?  I don't know much about Wiccans,
>>but I don't think insults are warranted.  One could argue that
>>people who believe in Christianity are ignoring science, i.e.
>>creationism vs. evolution.

mmh@cs.qmw.ac.uk (Matthew Huntbach) responds:
>Wiccans seem to find it quite ok to adopt a position of smug
>superiority and throw insults at Christians, so I don't see
>what's wrong. And you are wrong to suggest that Christians must
>believe in "creationism". The lunatic fringe in the USA may,
>most Christians, including the RC Church, don't adopt their
>leaden literalist position.

>Matthew Huntbach

I didn't see any evidence of Steve displaying a smug and
superior attitude or throwing insults.  And, Matthew, please
stop putting words in my mouth.  I didn't say Christians MUST
believe, I said one could argue that point.  Maybe I should
have made myself more clear.  Creationism is taught from the
Bible, and the Bible is the "holy word" and the ruling
authority for Christianity, historically.  I was attempting
to point out a philosophical argument not a specific case.

And must you intersperse your arguments with more American
bashing?  Really, there are plenty of lunatic fringes in
other countries besides the USA.  Your statement - "... the lunatic
fringe in the USA ..." - shows your bias.  By the way, can you
tell me about any RC churches that preach evolution.  Does the
Pope now preach evolution?  Creationism was still being taught,
last I heard; and, in many NON-lunatic denominations.

I'm still "enjoying" our debates, but you are definitely pushing
my buttons.   I would prefer a little less acidic tone. :-)

Laura