HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: kautaj@copper.ucs.indiana.edu (john kauta)
Subject: Re: IPS:South Africa, African leaders take
Organization: Indiana University, Department of Mathematics.
Date: Wed, 22 Jul 1992 21:01:46 GMT


>Reference: United Nations
>Title: SOUTH AFRICA: African leaders take their pleas to U.N. Council

Now this REALLY IRRITATES me....Could somebody *please* tell these African
"leaders" that going to the U.N. for this kind of stuff is a joke these days!!
The Security Council is a de facto extension of the State Department! We all
*know* that! South Africa (and it's western henchmen) will always have it sooo
good there!

>new york, jul 16 (ips/appan menon) -- after a day of diplomatic
>wrangling over the wording of a draft resolution on south africa,
>the u.n. security council has begun hearing african foreign
>ministers and south african leaders on ways to halt the escalating
>violence.

Will these African foreign ministers include those from Zaire, Kenya, Cote 
d'voire etc by any chance?? .... Then it is a joke in a _very_ bad taste!!

[STUFF DELETED]

>but for a whole day before the meeting began, the western
>nations, led by britain worked behind the scenes to water down the
>resolution proposed by the african group and supported by the non-
>aligned members in the security council.

Why should these African "leaders" accept a watered down version. After all,
all this is a joke, right??

[STUFF DELETED]

>although the choice of the special representative has not been
>formally announced, the secretary-general has made it clear he
>will name former u.s. secretary of state cyrus vance.
>
>the africans are said to be unhappy with that choice, and
>according to sources, would have preferred former u.s. president
>jimmy carter, who is known to be well informed about the current
>situation in south africa. (end/ips/ip/am/yjc/92)
>

What is the difference between Vance and Carter?? Really, what is it???
Carter is in no way an angel! What type of sanctions did he impose on SA
during his term?? Laughable, if any. After all, he is from the south, hence
a redneck of sorts. [Lest we forget, the Nicaraguan Contras were formed
at the end of his term. Hence he is a reactionary at best!]. Why didn't these
African "leaders" propose names of upright _Africans_ like Olusegun Obasanjo? 
Mwalimu Julius Nyerere?? After all, when all is said and done, the blak South 
_Africans_ will have to solve their own problem...excuse me, will _get_ _rid_ 
of the problem......... It was Vance's and Carter's own government which had 
arranged for Mandela to spend half of his lifetime behind bars....[I am 
talking about the CIA activities which led to Mandela's arrest here, in case 
some of you are clueless].

J.K.

P.S. Maybe Savimbi should head the commission....Savimbi and his buddy, Ian
     Smith.
From: kautaj@copper.ucs.indiana.edu (john kauta)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.african
Subject: Testing an AIDS vaccine in Africa.
Date: 25 Jul 92 16:01:30 GMT
Distribution: soc.culture.african
Organization: Indiana University, Department of Mathematics.

I just heard on the news that an AIDS vaccine, manufactured in the US, was
passed on to the French who then tested it on HIV-negative Zairian kids. Will
there be an end to this Tuskegee-like shit??

This, BTW, says a lot about the bum, Mabuto Sese Seko. It would seem HIV is 
targetting the wrong people....

A couple of years ago, some West African governments allowed their countries 
to be used as dump-sites for western industrial waste!

 <a very deeeep sigh>

J.K.
From: mokaba@binah.cc.brandeis.edu
Subject: Re: The point... why turn Gavin African?
Reply-To: mokaba@binah.cc.brandeis.edu
Organization: Brandeis University
Date: Mon, 27 Jul 1992 01:59:41 GMT

Dear Jacot Guillarmod
You are right to question 7000% increased that was hailed by dear old
Baas (ag verskoon my) Dr (ag tog ) Mnr Gavan, as the wonderful thing to have
happened to black education ... what he forgets or deliberately overlooks
is the simple fact that not only is 7000% of zero and incospicuos change and
so is such percentage to any number close to zero particularly when such
increase does not take into account the many decade of underpayment and the
surge in inflation rate. In addition. Gavan want us to forget that the per
capita education among all other ethnic groups is still higher than of the
children of soweto.. that the teach pupil ratio is still way up... and that
looking away is not going to help.. 
Plase post some budget numbers if you have any.. I cannot believe we are
spending only 5% of oour GDP or was that GNP on education... 
Sometime Gavan develops a psseudo-spychosomatic myopic condition that
make him not see numbers correctly... I don't trust his number .
Beside he figure a lot with his figures.

Madimetja
Newsgroups: soc.culture.african
From: antbh@strix.udac.uu.se (Bernhard Helander)
Subject: Re: IPS:Somalia, U.N. security council appr'
Organization: UDAC, Uppsala, Sweden
Date: Fri, 31 Jul 1992 13:58:21 GMT

wsargeant@IGC.APC.ORG (Winslow L. Sargeant) writes:
/Stuff omitted/

>new york, july 28 (ips) -- in what could become the most
>comprehensive peacekeeping cum humanitarian operation of the
>united nations in africa, the u.n. security council monday
>approved a plan ''to enlarge and adapt'' the international
>body's involvement in strife-torn somalia.

Yes large in Africa, but in absolute terms still relatively small. 
Reports on the number of people that UN intends to send mention
500 soldiers to bbe divided on 4 zones...That will not suffice! 
Remember Ethiopia in 1984 that engaged tha whole world, why can't anything
similar to that be set up now?

Bernhard Helander


Newsgroups: soc.culture.african
From: antbh@strix.udac.uu.se (Bernhard Helander)
Subject: Somalia crisis in perspective
Keywords: Somalia, crisis, starvation, Africa, aid
Organization: UDAC, Uppsala, Sweden
Date: Thu, 23 Jul 1992 13:03:48 GMT

A realistic UN estimate has it that it would take 2.6 billion dollars to
get the 4.5 million starving Somalis out of immediate danger. A major problem
is that no one is prepaired to cough up that amount. At the same time
we learn from news paper reports that US and Israel are currently negotiating
a 10 billion dollar loan to help finance the resumption of settlement 
building on the West bank....
 
In that context it wouyld only seem fair if Israel would pay some of the 
money it takes to save the Somali people from becoming extinct. after all,
Israel has the Somalis - or rather the ex-president Siyad Barre - to thank
for their nuclear arms cooperation with South Africa. For years Siyad Barre
allowed South African Air force planes bound for Israel to refuel at the 
Mogadishu Airport, masqued as 'Commorish Airlines'.
From: mokaba@binah.cc.brandeis.edu
Subject: african gavin continued the point you honour!
Reply-To: mokaba@binah.cc.brandeis.edu
Organization: Brandeis University
Date: Fri, 24 Jul 1992 06:52:47 GMT

turning Gavan African I hope made some of the non-Africans identify the
course travelled by the fellow students and tough times they have had with
the regime... This is not a plight for sympathy but an apeal for logic
and mutual understanding based on mutual intest and mutual goals.. 
I could not reach a point of discussing some of the personal relationship
between blacks and work in both the work situation and otherwise that
not only lead to the down fall of our beloved Se-otlaFika, but the rotting
of the core while the ouside looks bright red.. i hope also that 
presenting this issue will take those that do not undestand the repecussion
of laws called apartheid (better still should be anti-african policies).

I hope we can turn to the cativities that are being done in this are by
the government on education and human-resource development, tax policies,
and (remeber the 99 year lease.. what ever happened to that) .. what 
is it that we are letting the goverment continue to do while pretending 
to negotiate.. Our negelect of this will mean our down fall physically
or figuratively..


If you love SA stop advocating for half dead policies like an american lawyer.
"Ke senya ke re yalo"
Mokaba
Newsgroups: soc.culture.african,soc.culture.african.american,soc.net-people,talk.politics.theory,rec.arts.books
From: ccfj@hippo.ru.ac.za (F. Jacot Guillarmod)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.african
Subject: Re: A Joke
Date: 23 Jul 92 02:10:29 GMT
Article-I.D.: hippo.1992Jul23.021029.27779
Organization: Rhodes University, Grahamstown, South Africa

In <1992Jul22.152551.27091@gn.ecn.purdue.edu> laing@gn.ecn.purdue.edu (Peter Laing) writes:

>In article <BrsM28.B5u@usenet.ucs.indiana.edu>, kautaj@copper.ucs.indiana.edu (john kauta) writes:
>> 
>> Scene: A South African Bar. Four dudes at the counter - a white, a black,
>>        a "coloured" and an Indian.
>> 
>> The whitey orders the drinks: [of course! He has the money!]
>> 
>> "Give me one *white* horse, one *black* label, one *brown* sherry and one
>> *Indian* tonic"
>> 
>> [IN THAT ORDER]

>  You know, at the time this joke was published, it is very likely that
>  it would have been illegal for those four guys to stand at the same 
>  bar counter and order/drink a beer (or whatever) together. There were
>  even separate bottle store/off-sales where non-whites would have to 
>  go to buy alchohol.

Even this detail used to be catered for.  The jokes normally started
something like:  "Van der Merwe was standing at this bar in
Maseru (or New York)....etc".

-- 
  F.F. Jacot Guillarmod     PO  Box 94     \        |     ccfj@hippo.ru.ac.za
  Computing Centre       Grahamstown 6140   \      /     +27 461 22023 xt 284
  Rhodes University        South Africa      ;___*/   33 18 30 S | 26 31 45 E
Newsgroups: soc.culture.african
From: mokaba@binah.cc.brandeis.edu
Subject: is the liberation struggle and anti-apartheid struggle..
Reply-To: mokaba@binah.cc.brandeis.edu
Organization: Brandeis University
Date: Wed, 22 Jul 1992 17:01:15 GMT

Is the struggle to liberate africans and other people in South Africa
of necessity an anti-apartheid struggle? hm?......

for...........................
..............................
..............................


Against........



In presenting policy argument about changing SA should we begin in 
the 1948 act or before then.... 





Is the government of South Africa .. proecting apartheid or what is it
that they are defending..?





Is apartheid different from what happen before 1910

"Go for it Gav its all yours"
"Go gola gohlogohla go bona dikgolo ga go fele"
trans"no matter how old a person  there's still has a lot to learn"
Newsgroups: soc.culture.african
From: gavan@UCT_elc.mth.uct.ac.za (Gavan Tredoux)
Subject: Re: If Gavan was black!! chapter 3
Date: Wed, 22 Jul 92 22:54:57 GMT
Organization: University of Cape Town
X-Newsreader: Tin 1.1 PL4

mokaba@binah.cc.brandeis.edu writes:
[still more most unofficial biography of yours truly]

Very interesting. Nice to know more about you,
even if it's by pretending it's about me, the
motive for which still escapes me.

Hit 'em again Mokaba ...

Gavan Tredoux
UCT
Newsgroups: soc.culture.african
From: antbh@strix.udac.uu.se (Bernhard Helander)
Subject: Re: More On The Worst Human Tragedy
Organization: UDAC, Uppsala, Sweden
Date: Wed, 29 Jul 1992 19:37:21 GMT

This is a cross-posting of an article that appeared in
alt.activism.progressive:

Christic Institute <christic@igc.apc.org> writes:

>/* Written  7:25 pm  Jul 25, 1992 by peacenet in cdp:pn.alerts */
>/* ---------- "More On The Worst Human Tragedy" ---------- */
>From: <peacenet>
>Subject: More On The Worst Human Tragedy

>From dmorse Fri Jul 24 20:35:47 1992
>From: Dorothy Morse <dmorse>

>July 24 update.

>Sen. Nancy Kassebaum appeared on MacNeil/Lehrer News Hour July 22. She has
>just returned from Somalia

>She said:
>1. The situation is desperate beyond anything we can imagine. Children are
>dying in silence, too weak to cry.

>2. She thinks a UN peacekeeping force should be sent so that at least there
>is enough stability to get food to the starving.

>MacN/L showed video of skeletal children in refugee camps, in som cases with
>their mothers fallen dead in front of them. Heartbreaking scenes.

>Estimates are that 5000 people are dying each day.

>I called Kassebaum's office; her aide for Africa advised me to call the State
>Department to emphasize support for a UN peacekeeping force and continued
>humanitarian aide.  The number to call is 1-202-647-4000.

>Donations may be sent to Doctors Without Borders, 30 Rockefeller Plaza,
>Suite 5425, NY,NY 10112 or the American Red Cross, P.O. Box 37243,
>Wash. D.C., 20013.  Note on check "Somali relief."

>Any comments and ideas would be welcome.
Newsgroups: soc.culture.african
Subject: Missing Person Help.
From: mscs053@vax1.mankato.msus.edu
Date: 23 Jul 92 16:41:51 -0600
Organization: Mankato State University





To Anyone near Monrovia, Africa
Can you help me locate  a Dwight and Dorothy Hazard at the SIM missionary            
complex in Liberia, West Africa?????Their friend, Tina Schroeder, at Mankato 
State University wants to find them very much! 
   
   Sincerely and very thankfully,
        Tina Schroeder  MSCS053
        Mankato State University
        Mankato, Minnesota
From: vamg6792@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (Vincent A Mazzarella)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.african
Subject: UPI: Police killed; ANC schedules civil unrest "for Peace and Democracy
Date: 23 Jul 92 22:37:52 GMT
Article-I.D.: news.Brv5J6.5AM
Organization: University of Illinois at Urbana



	JOHANNESBURG, South Africa (UPI) -- South Africa's Human Rights
Commission, a monitoring group aligned with the African National
Congress, said Thursday 64 people were killed in politically motivated
violence in the country in the last seven days.
	Another 45 people were injured and 1,235 people arrested for
participating in anti-apartheid demonstrations, the commission said.
	Police say 117 police have been killed since January in what they
describe as politically motivated killings.
	Meanwhile,the ANC, South Africa's Communist Party and the Congress of
South African Trade Unions, announced Thursday they would call a two-day
general strike on Aug. 3 and 4.
	ANC Secretary-General Cyril Ramaphosa made the announcement at a news
conference in Johannesburg, saying the strike would form part of a week
of ``unprecedented action'' as part of the alliance's ``Campaign for
Peace and Democracy''.
	The ANC's announcement follows the breakdown in talks Wednesday
between South African business and trade union leaders on an accord to
avert a protracted general strike to force President Frederik de Klerk's
government out of power.
	``The ball remains squarely in the government's court,'' Ramaphosa
said on behalf of the allience.
	``The crisis can only be resolved if the National Party government
responds to our efforts to break the negotiations deadlock and takes
practical steps to meet the package of 14 demands put before the de
Klerk regime by the ANC on 23 June without delay,'' he said, adding that
the problem lies with the government's unwillingness to ``live with
democracy and its consequences.''

-- 
Vincent Mazzarella
University of Illinois College of Medicine, Urbana
e-mail:  mazz@vmd.cso.uiuc.edu  (Internet)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.african
From: philip@ziggy.stanford.edu (Philip Machanick)
Subject: Re: The point... why turn Gavin African?
Reply-To: philip@ziggy.stanford.edu (Philip Machanick)
Organization: CS Department, Stanford University, California, USA
Date: Mon, 27 Jul 1992 17:18:56 GMT

In article <1992Jul27.134634.9257@ucthpx.uct.ac.za> gavan@UCT_elc.mth.uct.ac.za  
(Gavan Tredoux) writes:
> mokaba@binah.cc.brandeis.edu writes:
> : Plase post some budget numbers if you have any.. I cannot believe we are
> : spending only 5% of oour GDP or was that GNP on education...
> 
> Those ARE the budget figures. How much of GDP does the US spend?
> Much less. Look it up.

Is % GDP in any case a valid figure? The US has probably the highest per capita  
expenditure on education in the world, yet it's education system is falling  
apart. In the US this issue is polarized around those who say "spend more it  
isn't working" and those who say "spend less it isn't working" both of whom are  
wrong in my view. If the % GDP spent on education were pushed up it would not  
necessarily result in a better system. If the US GDP grew by 50% spending 50%  
more on education would not be a big win without analysis of the problems. On  
the other hand cutting funding is guaranteed to make a bad system worse.

In the SA context as well as the US the _amount_ of money spent is not the  
first issue that needs to be addressed (perhaps the second in SA) but the  
structure of the system, whether it is chanelling resources where most needed,  
whether those resources are being effectively utilized, etc.

Considering alternative ways for a government to spend money - education,  
industrial infrastructure, supporting high-tech industry, bureaucracy and  
running costs to name a few - surely these should be prioritized according to  
payoff and precedence. Building industrial infrastructure for example is not  
going to be a big win without building education.

2 things need to be done - deciding these priorities and working on the  
structural and policy problems in education. Understanding the existing  
problems is important because increasing expenditure n-thousand % is not going  
to help if the problems are not dealt with. 
--
Philip Machanick
philip@pescadero.stanford.edu
From: hllhar01@uctvax.uct.ac.za
Newsgroups: soc.culture.african
Subject: Re: Olympics
Date: 30 Jul 92 06:47:28 GMT
Article-I.D.: uctvax.1992Jul30.044729.202153
Organization: University of Cape Town

In article <Bs3wtJ.4C5@casper.cs.uct.ac.za>, gds@casper.cs.uct.ac.za 
(Riel Smit) writes:

> hllhar01@uctvax.uct.ac.za writes:

[Quotes me as having said that Cape Town, Johannesburg and Durban are bidding
to become Olympic games venues]

>>Unfortunately, before any city can host the games, it has to meet a large
>>number of preconditions (involving security arrangements, transport
>>infrastructure, etc.). African cities in general are a long way from being in
>>the position to meet these conditions
> 
> So how come Jhb, CT and Durban are (thinking of) bidding?  Are they not 
> African cities?

I did say "African cities *in general*". I think you're being a little harsh if
you include Cape Town, Johannesburg and Durban in this category. 

Hardy
Newsgroups: soc.culture.african
From: llk@kepler.unh.edu (Llolsten L Kaonga)
Subject: Re: Olympics
Summary: The world is only as big as the USA 
Organization: University of New Hampshire  -  Durham, NH
Date: Fri, 31 Jul 1992 00:08:06 GMT

In article <-pyx_8n@rpi.edu> adelaf@rpi.edu writes:
>The Olympic games recently began and I wonder :
>Have any African cities bidded to host the games ever? If not, why not?
>Is they are conspiracy against potential African host nations or is the continent simply uninterested?  It seems to me that there is a lot to gain from hosting the games - recognition, economic boost, tourism, new infra-structure etc.  They host city is left practically brand new and substantially richer after the games.  Some countries are hosting the games two and three times upon recognizing the benefits.(eg. U.S.) 
>
>I remember that Nigeria bidded to host a FIFA  World Cup tournament a few years back, but I can't remeber what happened.
>
>Secondly, will anyone keeping track of "African Olympic medals" please post the news?  The U.S. media isn't quite interested in African achievements!!!
>
I don't know why Americans keep wondering why the majority of the population
is so ignorant about affairs outside of their country (or states, in some 
cases) when the media gives the impression that the only countries 
represented at the 25th Olympiad are the USA, China and European ones...

Seems like Angola's appearance might have been a necessary irritation on
NBC TV... 

I really don't see American kids watching the Olympic games to learn
anything (may be very little, if any) about the 170 countries or whatever
the correct number is, except possibly for a few countries whose names
appear on TV from time to time because they won some medal or they
happen to be competing in events in which Americans are involved...

>
>Festus Adelabu
>Rensselaer
>

lk (with the man in the yellow hat)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.african
From: philip@ziggy.stanford.edu (Philip Machanick)
Subject: Re: IPS:South Africa, African leaders take
Reply-To: philip@ziggy.stanford.edu (Philip Machanick)
Organization: CS Department, Stanford University, California, USA
Date: Wed, 22 Jul 1992 22:29:28 GMT

In article <Brt6Ez.8Du@usenet.ucs.indiana.edu> kautaj@copper.ucs.indiana.edu  
(john kauta) writes:
> of the problem......... It was Vance's and Carter's own government which had 
> arranged for Mandela to spend half of his lifetime behind bars....[I am 
> talking about the CIA activities which led to Mandela's arrest here, in case 
> some of you are clueless].

Am I missing something or are you thinking of someone else?

Mandela was arrested in South Africa in 1964 a dozen years before the Carter  
administration (1976-1980).
--
Philip Machanick
philip@pescadero.stanford.edu
Newsgroups: soc.culture.african
From: apj@cs.sun.ac.za (Andries Dippenaar)
Subject: Re: Conscription of Whites into the SADF
Keywords: Apartheid is over? fools day ?
Organization: University of Stellenbosch
Date: Sat, 25 Jul 1992 19:56:25 GMT

In article <12485@inews.intel.com> pmwanik@cadev6.intel.com (Peter Mwaniki) writes:

>>I have just received my n'th call up to the SADF. 
>>I was just wondering how the SADF can still conscript
>>only white males to their services, even though all
>>the racial segregation/discrimination laws have
>>theoretically been repealed. Can someone please explain
>>to the net how the SADF is getting around this one?
>>Cheers,
>>        Peter Laing.

>most inetresting ! sadf, police, goverment, neighbourhoods, land,
>schools, hospitals, industries, public toilets and all ! apatheid is
>over ? what a joke ?

The Defence Act has this curious feature in that within the act the persons 
subject to it, are defined, ie. white male South Africans.  (It is 
actually quite amusing (in a sense) to read the definition:  Something in 
the order of `if you look white and are considered white by others, you are 
taken to be white by the act')  Most other legislation referred to the 
repealed race classification laws, but the conscription laws do not.   Since 
no legislation yet exists that forbid discrimination on the basis of colour, 
this law still stands firm.  Attempts are being made at this moment to 
challenge the validity of the call-up system in court.

Andries
***********************************************************************
*       /|~~\ * APJ Dippenaar        * "If you wanna make the world a *
*     /__|__/ * apj@sunvax.sun.ac.za *  better place, take a look at  *
*   /    |    * Univ of Stellenbosch *  yourself and make a change."  *
* /   \__|    * South Africa         *             -- Michael Jackson *
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