HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: exucsge@exu.ericsson.se
Newsgroups: alt.usage.english
Subject: A good dictionary?
Date: 29 Dec 92 18:24:14 GMT
Reply-To: exucsge@exu.ericsson.se
Organization: Ericsson Network Systems
X-Disclaimer: This article was posted by a user at Ericsson.
              Any opinions expressed are strictly those of the
              user and not necessarily those of Ericsson.

Hello,
Please excuse this post if this is not the right newsgroup. 

I am looking for recommendations for a good English dictionary, desk size, either
hardback or paperback.  I currently am using a 1989 paperback edition of 
_The American Heritage Dictionary_, but I have been dismayed in the last few 
months at how many words I have searched for are not included.

If this information is in a FAQ somewhere, I will appreciate a pointer in the
right direction.

Post or email responses welcome.  Thank you for your help.

/Cathy
Newsgroups: alt.usage.english
From: nadeau@bnr.ca (Rheal Nadeau)
Subject: Re: Radical feminists
Organization: Bell-Northern Research Ltd., Ottawa
Date: Thu, 24 Dec 92 03:29:15 GMT

In article <92358.154429HERSCH@auvm.american.edu> <HERSCH@auvm.american.edu> writes:
>In article <1992Dec23.195637.8547@bmerh85.bnr.ca>, nadeau@bnr.ca (Rheal Nadeau)
>says:
>>
>> ("Gay", after all, is a euphemism coined
>>by people who couldn't face the reality of "homosexual".)
>>
>
>Nonsense.

Then please enlighten me, Herschel.  What is the origin of "gay" to mean
"homosexual"?  And is there a distinction I'm missing between "gay" and
"homosexual"?  (A serious query!)

I've checked the MW-NCD, but it provides no history.  My Compact OED
(the old one) doesn't list this meaning of "gay", indicating it's a
recent usage.

BTW, I meant nothing derogatory - however, euphemisms are commonly
used to avoid "unspeakable" words - words that shock either the
speaker, or the society the speaker lives in.

       The Rhealist - nadeau@bnr.ca - Speaking only for myself
Newsgroups: alt.usage.english
From: jcf@world.std.com (Joseph C Fineman)
Subject: Re: Capital "I"
Organization: The World Public Access UNIX, Brookline, MA
Date: Tue, 29 Dec 1992 04:07:21 GMT

glen@slate.cs.wisc.edu (Glen Ecklund) writes:

>jcf@world.std.com (Joseph C Fineman) writes:

>>...
>>I don't know what you mean by "our times", but schoolchildren were
>>doing this when I was in grade school, almost 50 years ago.

>I have never noticed this, growing up in the Midwest (US).  Could it be
>regional?

I went to grade school in Beverly Hills, CA.

I am pretty sure I have seen dotted capital I's in most places I have
lived.  There is one in the trademark of the Hills supermarket chain.
-- 
        Joe Fineman             jcf@world.std.com
        239 Clinton Road        (617) 731-9190
        Brookline, MA 02146
Newsgroups: alt.usage.english
From: gtoal@pizzabox.demon.co.uk (Graham Toal)
Subject: Re: Frosh (was Re: Sexist language (was...
Organization: Cuddlehogs Anonymous
Date: Thu, 24 Dec 1992 05:05:00 GMT

In article <BzqsMF.Jnv@constellation.ecn.uoknor.edu> mmmirash@midway.ecn.uoknor.edu (Mandar M. Mirashi) writes:
:>terms, many of which have since fallen out of use even here.  Your idea
:>that we were intentionally waging war on the language is just silly.
:
:Have you heard of Noah Webster?

Errr.... yes - Noah Webster is almost universally acknowledged as one of
the silliest people ever to lend his name to a dictionary; what's your point?

G
Organization: The American University - University Computing Center
Date: Mon, 28 Dec 1992 20:42:04 EST
From: <HERSCH@auvm.american.edu>
Newsgroups: alt.usage.english
Subject: Re: Sexist hypocrites

In article <1992Dec28.232023.17000@news.columbia.edu>,
gmw1@cunixa.cc.columbia.edu (Gabe M Wiener) says:
>
>
>The PC folks (or perhaps we should call them the logically challenged) cannot
>grasp a concept that speakers of almost every other romance language grasp
>with ease and without problem.
>

Hm. Maybe this is the source of all the problems I have with some of
the things that you say, Gabe. Apparently you're under some weird
misapprehension that English is a Romance language! Maybe all the
misunderstandings, prejudices, and misjudgments spring from this!

H.

Herschel Browne
"The" American University
From: jgd@csd4.csd.uwm.edu (John G Dobnick)
Newsgroups: alt.usage.english
Subject: Re: Standards
Date: 31 Dec 1992 04:02:56 GMT
Organization: University of Wisconsin - Milwaukee
Reply-To: jgd@csd4.csd.uwm.edu
NNTP-Posting-Host: 129.89.7.4
Originator: jgd@csd4.csd.uwm.edu

[Ah'm a gonna be sorry Ah got into this, but...  Say, where's that
 Line-eater when you need him?]

From article <BzMtxB.F8w@constellation.ecn.uoknor.edu>, by mmmirash@midway.ecn.uoknor.edu (Mandar M. Mirashi):
> 
 [Discussion of "standards"]

> This argument is similar to : "There is nothing common between birds.
> Every bird looks different". Don't you realise that EVERY bird has
> standard characteristics? That is why we call it a bird! Similarly,
> the standard would be the common grounds between different BBC
> newsreaders. When the pronunciation of a word is suspect, the
> majority's opinion must be considered. 

To paraphrase: 

   This argument is similar to : "There is nothing common between Englishes.
   Every English looks different". Don't you realise that EVERY English has
   standard characteristics? That is why we call it English! Similarly,
   the standard would be the common grounds between different BBC
   newsreaders. When the pronunciation of a word is suspect, the
   majority's opinion must be considered.

By the way, Mandar, if you're going to make this argument, answer me this:  

          What is "the standard bird"?

[See!  I _told_ you I'd be sorry! :-) ]

[Happy New Year to y'all!]
-- 
John G Dobnick                          ATTnet: (414) 229-5727
Computing Services Division             INTERNET: jgd@uwm.edu
University of Wisconsin - Milwaukee     UUCP: uunet!uwm!jgd

"Knowing how things work is the basis for appreciation,
and is thus a source of civilized delight."  -- William Safire
Organization: The American University - University Computing Center
Date: Tue, 22 Dec 1992 12:16:47 EST
From: <HERSCH@auvm.american.edu>
Newsgroups: alt.usage.english
Subject: Re: More English Excrement
Distribution: world

Gee, four totally different definitions for "shit-eating grin".
Maybe it doesn't really mean anything in particular? Effective
communication with this expression would seem dicey at best.

H.

Herschel Browne
"The" American University
From: briand@tekig5.pen.tek.com (Brian D Diehm)
Newsgroups: alt.usage.english
Subject: Re: Excrement in the English Language
Keywords: scatology, slang
Date: 21 Dec 92 19:39:53 GMT
Reply-To: briand@tekig5.PEN.TEK.COM
Organization: Tektronix, Inc., Beaverton,  OR.

>>And the old Army saying
>
>>   Shit flows downhill.
>
>Must be some diet they have in the US army.
>
>Prunes, rhubarb and baked beans all washed down with a couple
>of pints of Guinness?
>:-)

No, this refers to the fact that the really unpleasant jobs get put upon the
lowest ranks.

If the Company Commander (a captain) says to the chief NCO (a sergeant first
class) "clean up these latrines," do you think the NCO runs out looking for
cleanser and sponges? Naaaaaaawwwww

I believe a variant of this is used in the blue-collar trades: "All it takes
to be a plumber is to remember that payday's Friday and shit flows downhill."
I believe this is usually spoken by a non-plumber, say an electrician or a
finish carpenter. Definitely a statement of derision about plumbers. And not
nearly as elegant as Mark Twain's comment on another trade: "As empty as a
beer closet where painters have been."

-Brian
--
Brian Diehm
Tektronix, Inc.                (503) 627-3437         briand@tekig5.PEN.TEK.COM
P.O. Box 500, M/S 19-286
Beaverton, OR   97077
From: maj@waikato.ac.nz
Newsgroups: alt.usage.english
Subject: Re: Sexist hypocrites
Date: 29 Dec 92 16:41:30 +1300
Organization: University of Waikato, Hamilton, New Zealand

In article <1992Dec27.174634.18263@u.washington.edu>, lukoff@carson.u.washington.edu (Fred Lukoff) writes:
[much deleted]
> Or make up words than end in -person? I actually saw a Washington State
> government notice for 'fisherperson' licenses and nearly died. So does
> anyone have any suggestions as to how we can fix this situation, BESIDES
> -person words?
> 
> Ben Lukoff

In the case of this particular problem there is no need for
a -person word solution. The word 'fisher' has a nice biblical
ring to it and does the job perfectly.

-- 
Murray A. Jorgensen [ maj@waikato.ac.nz ]    University of Waikato
Department of Mathematics and Statistics     Hamilton, New Zealand      
__________________________________________________________________
'Tis the song of the Jubjub! the proof is complete,
if only I've stated it thrice.'
From: casseres@apple.com (David Casseres)
Newsgroups: alt.usage.english
Subject: Re: Excrement in the English Language
Date: 23 Dec 92 17:47:33 GMT
Followup-To: alt.usage.english
Organization: Apple Computer Inc.

In article <1992Dec17.194237.2190@hplabsz.hpl.hp.com>, evan@hpl.hp.com
(Evan Kirshenbaum) wrote:
> 
> "Ape shit" and "Bat shit" are adverbs(?) meaning roughly "irrational",
> "non-linear", possibly "crazy".  They seem to only be found as the
> object of the verb "go".

Once, long ago, I heard "apeshit" as a noun: "I'm having my daily apeshit,"
said someone who was shooting pool balls around the table at high speed,
all by himself.

> "Chicken shit" is an adjective meaning "insignificant".

Also "petty," as in "chickenshit regulations."

> "Jack shit" (which, interestingly, is the only one whose accent falls
> on "shit") is a noun meaning "nothing".

It's extremely interesting to look up "jack" in the OED.

> There doesn't seem to be much pattern here.  Why horses and bulls, but
> not cows, sheep, or goats?  Why no pigeons? Does anybody have other
> examples?

Hmmm.  There's "lower than snakeshit/whaleshit."  There's "dogshit" as in
"I'd make a dogshit bad soldier."  There's "owlshit" meaning bad food (I
got this from The Naked and the Dead by Norman Mailer -- it may be a
fabrication).

--

David Casseres
Exclaimer: Wow!
Newsgroups: alt.usage.english
From: greg.grainger@rose.com (greg grainger)
Subject: Re: 'Professor' in Ca
Organization: Rose Media Inc, Toronto, Ontario.
Date: Tue, 22 Dec 1992 23:53:35 GMT
X-Gated-By: Usenet <==> RoseMail Gateway (v1.70)


Date Entered: 12-22-92 12:12
On Dec. 22, Graham Toal wrote:

GT>Could anyone who understands what a Brit means by 'Professor' and who
GT>knows why we sometimes have misunderstandings about visiting US academics,
GT>please tell me what 'professor' means in Canada?  Is it closer to the
GT>British status or the US one?  I'm trying to work out if a Canadian
GT>I know who insists on putting Professor in his signature (in a group
GT>of academics who normally eschew titles) is being more than normally
GT>pretentious or not.

As far as I know, we follow the US usage.

It was once explained to me that in Europe, 'Professor' is a higher title
than 'Doctor', for the simple reason that it is a harder title to achive,
*starting* with the PhD, and going on through Lecturer, Assistant
Professor, Associate Professor, and so on.

The North American usage is that 'Professor' is a kind of catch-all term,
often used to refer to anyone who stands up in front of a group of students
in a classroom and lecture.

It may be that the person you refer to simply wishes to follow the more
elegant, and (IMHO) more accurate European useage, or he may just be a
pompous prick. Check his CV to see if he is, in fact, a full professor or
not.

                                                Cheers,
                                                Greg.

Greg Grainger
Toronto, Ontario.
greg.grainger@rose.com
11:58:53 am, Tue 12-22-1992.

        Personal policy statement: Neither flames nor flame-bait
        will be responded to.
---
   OLX 2.2   73% of statistics are made up on the spot.
   RM 2.00 : RoseNet<=>Usenet Gateway : Rose Media 416-733-2285
Newsgroups: alt.usage.english
From: jcf@world.std.com (Joseph C Fineman)
Subject: Re: Simplified English
Organization: The World Public Access UNIX, Brookline, MA
Date: Thu, 31 Dec 1992 15:27:44 GMT

tylee@leety.austin.ibm.com (Ty Lee) writes:

>Do you think it is a worth try to simplify the English by removing
>the definite and/or indefinite articles from the written English?
>If we examine the text in this article, we will find as many as 13
>occurences of the definite articles, the, are used. If I removed them,
>the meaning of the text would not be distorted severly.

People have omitted the articles in telegrams since time immemorial.
In Heinlein's novel _The Moon Is a Harsh Mistress_ the inhabitants of
the moon all talk that way, under Russian influence I think.  But I
can't think of any real-life example of a language that has *given up*
articles.  Indo-European didn't have them, but its Germanic and
Romance descendents have all invented them and stuck with them.
Perhaps, at least in speech, there is some real convenience in the
redundancy that they supply.
-- 
        Joe Fineman             jcf@world.std.com
        239 Clinton Road        (617) 731-9190
        Brookline, MA 02146
Newsgroups: alt.usage.english
From: ettamminen@cc.helsinki.fi (Tapio Tamminen)
Subject: Re: Comments in source code
Organization: University of Helsinki
Date: Tue, 29 Dec 1992 23:24:24 GMT

In article <1992Dec29.060209.17732@g2syd.genasys.com.au>,
roberts@g2syd.genasys.com.au (Robert Swan) writes:

> very impersonal.  It simply states in terse, not quite English, the
> intent of some ensuing piece of gibberish `PROMPT FOR FILENAME', or
> `CHECK RIGHT TYPE'.
> 
> However, in the newer code, comments tend to be complete sentences and
> (here's the part that interests me) speak in terms of the 1st person
> plural ...  `We need to get the filename', `We can't proceed unless it's
> the right type'.  Reading the source code has taken on an us and them
> aspect. 
> 
> Who are `we'.  Me and my program?  Me and the other programmers?
> 
> Has anyone else noticed anything similar?  Or am I just losing my
> marbles?

My Finnish WordPerfect 5.1 asks me after Shft-F10 (in Finnish, of course),
'Which document shall I retrieve?' ('Document to be retrieved:' in the US and
UK versions). Also, after pressing Exit (F7) it (he/she?) asks, 'Will you save
the document?' ('Save document?'); and after that, 'What name shall I save it
under?' ('Document to be saved:').

$0.02
Tapio
-- 

          * Tapio Tamminen         *                           *
          * University of Helsinki * ettamminen@cc.helsinki.fi *
          * Finland                *                           *

Newsgroups: alt.usage.english
From: mcoffin@IASTATE.EDU (Marie Coffin)
Subject: Re: Idjit alert II
Reply-To: mcoffin@IASTATE.EDU (Marie Coffin)
Organization: Iowa State University
Date: Mon, 4 Jan 1993 01:12:57 GMT

In article <NIKOLAY.93Jan2222505@husc10.harvard.edu>, nikolay@husc10.harvard.edu
(Philip Nikolayev) writes:
> gtoal@pizzabox.demon.co.uk (Graham Toal) writes:
> 
> >Followup-To: /dev/null
> 
> No way.
> 
> > In article <1993Jan2.043903.18936@husc3.harvard.edu>
> > zeleny@husc9.harvard.edu (Michael Zeleny) writes:
> >:
> >:Flame me as only you can, rms.  After all our past arguments, I am
> 
> > A gentle warning to all our readers.  This Zeleny character is one
> > of these people who stir up flame wars in groups that they're not
> > really interested in just for personal amusement.  Zelany in
> > particular has ruined a couple of good groups for *months*.  I
> > strongly urge everyone not to rise to any bait he posts here.
> 
> On the contrary, Zeleny is the only participant in a number of
> groups that makes them worth reading, Mr Taol. Get lost, amadon.
> 
> > G
> 
> Philip Nikolayev
> nikolay@husc.harvard.edu


Speaking of Idjits, Nikolayev and Zeleny form a mutual-admiration society,
which no one else joins or wants to.  However, Nikolayev is NOT an AI
program -- he's a lab experiment in the psychology department.  I am not
sure how this came about, but my guess is that some undergrads looking for
extra credit gave a monkey a typewriter and called the resulting gibberish
"Nikolayev".  It ain't Hamlet, but give it time.  If you're reading this,
guys:  it was just supposed to be a thought experiment.  As you can see, 
nothing interesting comes of actually doing it.  I'm sure he's the cutest
little monkey on the block, but would you please send him back to radiation
testing or whatever he used to do?  The banana chips are clogging my newsfeed.


Marie Coffin
Newsgroups: alt.usage.english
From: mmmirash@midway.ecn.uoknor.edu (Mandar M. Mirashi)
Subject: Re: American English
Date: Mon, 21 Dec 1992 23:31:47 GMT
Organization: Engineering Computer Network, University of Oklahoma, Norman, OK, USA

In article <BzMHE0.3G3@ccu.umanitoba.ca> ens@ccu.umanitoba.ca writes:
>(Mandar M. Mirashi) writes:
>
>>Amazing how the very Americans who shouted down the program/me
>>distinction, applaud the freshman/first-year distinction!
>
>Amazing how the very people who embrace the program/me distinction to
>resolve an ambiguity that is trivial to avoid, and has never even been
>noticed on a continent with a significant fraction of the world's
>computer programmers, are the same people (2 of them anyway) that
>resist perfectly natural use of gender neutral language that resolves
>ambiguities that otherwise occur everyday.

>Werner
>
>

In defence, I could use a circular argument :
"Amazing how the people who wish to avoid ambiguity defy the 
usage of the word programme in resolving ambiguities."         ;)


Seriously though, it is impossible to resolve all ambiguities. It
is usually possible to guess the meaning of a word from its context.
If it isn't, then it is the responsibility of the speaker/writer
to make the context clear.

        I do not "resist" using "gender neutral language" (whatever that
may mean). I don't find anything wrong with it, as long as it isn't 
ungrammatical. To me, "man" can be either gender neutral or gender
specific, depending upon the context.


                                                            Mandar.

-- 
"Imagine there's no countries. It isn't hard to do. Nothing to kill or die 
 for, and no religion too. Imagine all the people living life in peace.
 You may say I'm a dreamer, but I'm not the only one. I hope some
 day you'll join us, and the world will be as one." - John Lennon.
Newsgroups: alt.usage.english
From: gtoal@pizzabox.demon.co.uk (Graham Toal)
Subject: Re: Men & maids
Organization: Cuddlehogs Anonymous
Date: Mon, 28 Dec 1992 06:24:30 GMT

In article <bjones-231292121235@130.13.26.204> bjones@denitqm.uswest.com (Brent Jones) writes:
:In article <Bzqtvy.67I@demon.co.uk>, gtoal@pizzabox.demon.co.uk (Graham
:Toal) wrote:
:> Well bowl me over - I had a batman once who was a woman.
:> G
:> (I bet that's stumped you)
:
:If I remember my Sax Rohmer correctly, a "batman" is some sort of personal
:servent, usually with the connotation of an indiginous native working
:for a colonial administrator. Close?

Well done!  You didn't fall for the cricketing misdirection :-)

Yes, I had a female batman when I was on an officer training course with
the Royal Artillery at Larkhill just up from Stonehenge.

G
From: jgd@csd4.csd.uwm.edu (John G Dobnick)
Newsgroups: alt.usage.english
Subject: Re: Fisher...uh...person
Date: 3 Jan 1993 06:46:05 GMT
Organization: University of Wisconsin - Milwaukee
Reply-To: jgd@csd4.csd.uwm.edu
NNTP-Posting-Host: 129.89.7.4
Originator: jgd@csd4.csd.uwm.edu

From article <1993Jan03.003802.28242@microsoft.com>, by frankm@microsoft.com (Frank R.A.J. Maloney):
> In article <1i296iINNsrl@uwm.edu> jgd@csd4.csd.uwm.edu writes:
>>> sandy@halcyon.com (Sandy Fifer) wonders:
>>> 
>>> | What's wrong with using fisher, server, sewer, crafter, etc.?  These
>>> | words don't sound cumbersome to me.
>>
>>Also be careful who you call a fisher.  
>>Fisher: Carnivorous mammal of North America, _martes pennanti_.
>>        This is a member of the same genus as the marten (_martes
>>	americana_), and the sable (_martes zibellina_).
> 
> I'd be careful about the selective use of dictionaries and other
> reference works.
> 
> 	fisher n. 1. a fisherman. 2. any animal that catches fish
> 	for food. 3. a dark-brown or blackish, somewht fox-like
> 	marten, Martes pennanti, of northern North America. 4. its
> 	fur. [ME fischer, OE fiscere, See FISH, -ER^1]

_I_ know that -- and so does everyone else who reads this gorup.  There
seemed to be no need to repeat the first definition you cite, as this
was explicit in the original poster's message.  (Same argument for
number 2.)   And... my post _was_ a followup to the comments on
what one should call a person who sews.   

Methinks you lost the thread of humor running through this thread.
Stand back and see the joke. [Oh, I see. You work for Microsoft.
Sorry. :-) ]

Personally opinionated,
-- 
John G Dobnick                          ATTnet: (414) 229-5727
Computing Services Division             INTERNET: jgd@uwm.edu
University of Wisconsin - Milwaukee     UUCP: uunet!uwm!jgd

"Knowing how things work is the basis for appreciation,
and is thus a source of civilized delight."  -- William Safire
Newsgroups: alt.usage.english
From: Tom Christiansen <tchrist@convex.COM>
Subject: Re: American English
Originator: tchrist@pixel.convex.com
Date: Thu, 24 Dec 1992 03:43:21 GMT
Reply-To: tchrist@convex.COM (Tom Christiansen)
Organization: Convex Computer Corporation, Colorado Springs, CO
X-Disclaimer: This message was written by a user at CONVEX Computer
              Corp. The opinions expressed are those of the user and
              not necessarily those of CONVEX.

From the keyboard of mmmirash@midway.ecn.uoknor.edu (Mandar M. Mirashi):
:>It's good enough for the British, so it ought to be good enough
:>for you.

Are people from Scotland British?  

:It isn't. Prove to me that most Englishmen find American English to
:be as good as English English.
:
:                                                         Mandar.

Prove that it matters.

--tom
-- 
    Tom Christiansen      tchrist@convex.com      convex!tchrist

	    Ear, but earn and wear and tear
	    Do not rhyme with here but ere.
From: mckeonj@ul.ie
Newsgroups: alt.usage.english
Subject: Re: Excrement:  Shite & Shiite
Date: 23 Dec 92 10:16:16 GMT
Organization: University of Limerick, Ireland

In article <1992Dec18.150656.427@dcs.qmw.ac.uk>, tariqh@dcs.qmw.ac.uk (Tariq Hamid) writes:
> Shit! What's happening to the world we live in ?
> Tariq Hamid	                 	Internet:  tariqh@dcs.qmw.ac.uk
Easily explained if you know that SHIT is not a word, but a name.
Alternate form of SET (SHET) and SATAN.
It's your man, he's taken over the world and put his name on 
everyone's lips.
-- 
"If England sleeps, shall Ireland dream?" : Se/an macEoin
-------------------------------------------------------------------
John McKeon, Material Science Dept. University of Limerick, Ireland
From: djohns@elm.circa.ufl.edu (David A. Johns)
Newsgroups: alt.usage.english
Subject: Re: Something NEW, ferGawdzake!
Date: 25 Dec 92 02:43:00 GMT
Organization: University of Florida, Gainesville

In article <BzJnBr.952@constellation.ecn.uoknor.edu> mmmirash@banshee.ecn.uoknor.edu (Mandar M. Mirashi) writes:

# I have admitted it before and I admit it now. I am NOT perfect. But
# I strive to be. I strive to attain the perfect English English
# standard.

Yes, yes, it's just that it keeps moving!

Try once more, Mandar -- I promise I won't pull the ball away this
time.

David Johns
Newsgroups: alt.usage.english
Subject: Re: Radical feminists 
From: hairy@sloth.equinox.gen.nz (Phil Anderson)
Date: Wed, 23 Dec 92 07:54:42 GMT
Distribution: world
Organization: Lethargy Inc.


In article <1992Dec22.030111.25846@bmerh85.bnr.ca> nadeau@bnr.ca writes:

  > branded a "radical feminist" for preferring "persons" to "men (including

Time for another thread. Why is it that "persons" seems to be rising 
in popularity at the expense of "people"? To me it seems much more 
impersonal, treating people as mere population units.

 ----------------------------------------------
 Phil Anderson  ***  hairy@sloth.equinox.gen.nz
 ----------------------------------------------
       "No-one is equal to anyone else!"
Newsgroups: alt.usage.english