HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: swood@vela.acs.oakland.edu (Scott Wood - EVENSONG)
Subject: Deer's revenge?  more info sought
Organization: Oakland University, Rochester MI.
Date: 9 Nov 92 07:57:44 CST
Originator: hunting@osnome.che.wisc.edu

I just happened to hear on the news yesterday (local) about a nine pointer
up in Montrose near Flint Michigan that supposedly got a little unnerved
when a couple of unsuspecting hunters happened in on one of his more
active fall activities! (*ahem*)

Supposedly the deer became so violent that it became necessary for the men
to run to safety and call out the Michigan DNR.  The DNR upon taking sum
of the situation proceded to put the animal down with firearms.  I was
wondering what people may have heard on this story....

swood

-- 
  Nov. 08   Closing day of Duck/Waterfowl season (upper L.P. of Michigan)
  Nov. 11   Closing day of Michigan Quail hunting
  Nov. 12   Closing day of early Waterfowl season (lower L.P.)
 Currently  Rabbit, squirrel and bird season are still alive and well!
From: RGUSTAVSON@ocs.dir.texas.GOV
Subject: Seeking Swords and Capes
Organization: The Internet
Date: Wed, 11 Nov 1992 21:56:56 GMT

M'Lords; M'Ladies:

The following was posted recently:

>From: Jack Thompson <76520.3531@compuserve.com>
>Subject: Sword maker
>A friend of mine is interested in making swords .... If anyone is interested, drop
>me a note to the cserve number and I'll pass it on....

Mr. Thompson:  I would gladly reply to you via Cserve, however I do not have
access to that facility.  I would be most appreciative if you were to have your
sword making friend contact me.  I am indeed interested in discussing medieval
sword-making techniques, as I would prefer making my own (or perhaps finishing
a forged blade).   Also, if you are aware of a way to route I-Net traffic to Cserve,
I would appreciate some hints.

Additionally, I pray you kind gentles, to assist me in finding craftsman
knowledgeable in the forging and finishing of bladed weapons.

I pray you all, indulge me one final request:  That is for a source for a pattern for
a man's hooded cape (cloke?) to be used for winter wear (or less desirable) a
finished garment.  I intend to use this garment on a daily basis, so I would prefer
the "real thing".

May the Lord's Blessings be upon you all: and may God go with you and watch
over you!

In His Service: Robin Arthur Gustavson 
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
From: parr@acs.ucalgary.ca (Charles Parr)
Subject: Re: idiots with guns
Date: Mon, 09 Nov 92 16:58:51 GMT
Organization: The University of Calgary, Alberta

In article <1de8siINNdnk@crcnis1.unl.edu> msb@hoss.unl.edu (micheal bloomberg) writes:
>In <9211021750.AA23667@math.bu.edu> jeffs@math.bu.EDU (Jeff Suzuki) writes:

>I used to be a security guard at a telephone company payment processing 
>center that handled millions of dollars every day.  Our training consisted
>of six hours of video tapes and twenty minutes of filling out questionaires/
>tests every year.  Granted, if we had been armed we would have had to shoot
>sixteen to twenty shots a year to qualify.  Security guards are specifically
>told that they are not on the job to stop crimes in progress, their job is
>to be a professional witness:  take down relevent information, be seen in 
>uniform, etc.  If local SCA groups gave constables a half hour or more of 
>training every week they would be better trained than the vast majority
>of security guards.

This is what I would like to see...A small cadre of trained and
useful Scadians capable of preventing minor problems, and
practicing damage control in large ones. The key here is
*trained*...How can I go about finding this training for
myself and my fellow constables?

>However, security companies have very specific insurance and bonding require-
>ments that would be very expensive to reproduce on a small scale.  By providing
>training and whatnot, you would be implying that your security force was 
>competent and professional.  You would open yourselves up to immense lawsuits.

Hmmmm. I suspect it would be no worse than the liability of the
Chirgeonate....

Carolus Malvoix
-- 
Within the span of the last few weeks I have heard elements of
separate threads which, in that they have been conjoined in time,
struck together to form a new chord within my hollow and echoing
gourd. --Unknown net.person
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: New Chaucerian listserv
From: Therion <HZS@psuvm.psu.edu>
Date: Mon, 9 Nov 1992 10:20:54 EST
Organization: Penn State University

 announcement forwarded for general information purposes -

      - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -- - - - - - - - - - - - - - --

>CHAUCER on LISTSERV@SIUCVMB.BITNET       Medieval English Literature
>        or LISTSERV@SIUCVMB.SIU.EDU

>   Some of your readers might be interested in a new list,
>   CHAUCER@SIUCVMB (Internet: CHAUCER@siucvmb.siu.edu).  This is an
>   open-forum discussion list for Medieval English Literature.

>   To subscribe to CHAUCER send e-mail to LISTSERV@siucvmb.siu.edu
>   or e-mail or message to LISTSERV@SIUCVMB.BITNET with the following
>   command in the body:

>      SUB CHAUCER your full name

>   Owner:  Jeff Taylor    GR4302@SIUCVMB.BITNET
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
From: gleason@scf16.scf.loral.com (Robert Gleason)
Subject: Isles in Caid
Organization: Loral Space and Range Systems, Sunnyvale, CA
Distribution: rec
Date: Tue, 10 Nov 1992 19:14:33 GMT


Does anybody know what the status of the Shire if Isles in Caid is? Are they 
still a healthy shire? I visit the area on mundane business often and would
like to go to an event or fighter practice on my next journey. Could anyone
tell me when and where practice/events are being held?

Many thanks in advance,

Parlan MacGillievray
(almost an Isleezian)
--

 Parlan MacGillievray			---  Robert Gleason
 Shire of Encinal 			---  Loral Space and Range Systems
 West Kingdom				---  1260 Crossman Ave.  MS-S31
 Gules, a swan naiiant and on a	chief	---  Sunnyvale, California  94089
 argent, three trefoil knots gules	---  >> gleason@scf28.scf.loral.com
From: msb@hoss.unl.edu (micheal bloomberg)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: idiots with guns
Date: 6 Nov 1992 17:09:38 GMT
Organization: University of Nebraska--Lincoln	
Distribution: world
NNTP-Posting-Host: hoss.unl.edu

In <9211021750.AA23667@math.bu.edu> jeffs@math.bu.EDU (Jeff Suzuki) writes:

>If gun toting idiot is going to shoot you anyway, you'd be dead before
>you ever got into sword range.  

First of all this is not true.  The vast majority of firefights take place 
within six feet.  And the average idiot redneck with a gun is not necessarily
good with it.  Even If you do get shot, you will have a chance to prevent
said redneck idiot from hurting anyone else (99.99999999% of the time you 
will not be killed, especially with modern steel-jacketed shells).

Given all of this, it is still far smarter to RUN AWAY from any danger if 
it is at all possible.  A live member is better than a martyred hero.  

I used to be a security guard at a telephone company payment processing 
center that handled millions of dollars every day.  Our training consisted
of six hours of video tapes and twenty minutes of filling out questionaires/
tests every year.  Granted, if we had been armed we would have had to shoot
sixteen to twenty shots a year to qualify.  Security guards are specifically
told that they are not on the job to stop crimes in progress, their job is
to be a professional witness:  take down relevent information, be seen in 
uniform, etc.  If local SCA groups gave constables a half hour or more of 
training every week they would be better trained than the vast majority
of security guards.

However, security companies have very specific insurance and bonding require-
ments that would be very expensive to reproduce on a small scale.  By providing
training and whatnot, you would be implying that your security force was 
competent and professional.  You would open yourselves up to immense lawsuits.

just a few thoughts. 
--

    Micheal Bloomberg; University of Nebraska-Lincoln; msb@hoss.unl.edu
      "It could probably be shown by facts and figures that there is no
       distinctly American criminal class except Congress." -Mark Twain
From: klumppp@maple.circa.ufl.edu
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: New in Town and nowhere to go
Date: 7 Nov 92 03:34:01 GMT
Reply-To: klumppp@maple.circa.ufl.edu
Organization: University of Florida - CIRCA

Greetings my Lords and Ladies,
   I have most recently traveled to the lovely lands of Trimaris and while I
know that these lands are not unknown to those of the SCA, I have been unable
to locate a group local to the Gainesville/University of Florida area.  This
grieves me deeply as I have always found good cheer and companionship with
members of the SCA.  If anyone knows of a name, or address, I would be deeply
in your debt.  My thanks,

Hrothgar of the Ladder  (MKA Perrin Klumpp)
Newly of Trimaris  :  KLUMPPP@CIRCA.UFL.EDU
"Blue is the rose that guards my heart, Red is the blood that warms rose,
"Blue is the rose that guards my heart, Red is the blood that warms the rose,
Dark is the night in which I rest and west is the wind that takes me home.
-a lament of Caid
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: "period" wristwatches
From: David Schroeder <ds4p+@andrew.cmu.edu>
Date: Fri, 13 Nov 1992 22:49:39 -0500 
Organization: Doctoral student, Industrial Administration, Carnegie Mellon, Pittsburgh, PA

Good gentles,

Those of you with access to an old-'timers' files might appreciate
the following 'timely' articles printed during our tenure as editors
of T.I.(M.E.).

  #67 Summer 1983  "Dost Thou Know the Time" by Holtmar Wyrhtenatun
                                               (Mike Newton, Florida)

      -- An overview of clocks and timekeeping

         BIBLIOGRAPHY includes:
          Bruton, Eric. _Clocks and Watches, 1400-1900_,
           Frederick A. Praeger, 1967.
          Waugh, Albert E.  _Sundials, Their Theory and Construction_,
           Dover, 1973.
          De Carle, Donald. _Horology_,
           The English Universities Press, Ltd. 1965
          Willsberger, Johann.  _Clocks and Watches, Six Hundred Years
           of the World's Most Beautiful Timepieces_, Dial Press, 1975. 

  #63 Summer 1982  "Constructing a Portable Sundial" by AEginald del Thoar
                                                       (Jay Holovacs, NJ)
      -- How to build an 11th century cylindrical 
         timepiece called a shepherd's dial


I hope you find these references useful -- the shepherd's dial is
a particularly elegant solution.

My best -- Bertram

+-----------------------------------------------------------------------+
Bertram of Bearington                                      Dave Schroeder
Debatable Lands/AEthelmearc/East               Carnegie Mellon University
INTERNET: ds4p@andrew.cmu.edu                         412/731-3230 (Home)
+------------------------ PREME * Press On * PREME ---------------------+
      "He indulged in every excess, yes in each licentious whim..." 
From: Ruth.Woodring@f4229.n124.z1.fidonet.org (Ruth Woodring)
Sender: FredGate@ocitor.fidonet
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: You know you're in the SCA....
Date: Wed, 04 Nov 1992 18:14:36

  >..... You are wearing garb in public and someone asks you
 >     if you are in a play.
 TB> Mundane: "What play is that?"
 TB> SCAdian: "Death of a Salesman."

 in the Midrealm, we answered, 'West Side Story'.  Ansteorra also says  "Death.."  And those of us in the Comedia dell'Arte just dimple and say,  "Yes."

 --Vashti (who has been Isabella, Columbina, and The Mother, Angelina...)
 

 * Origin: Herald's Point * Steppes/Ansteorra * 214-699-0057 (1:124/4229)
From: Beth.Appleton@f4229.n124.z1.fidonet.org (Beth Appleton)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Welsh name question
Date: 9 Nov 92 20:52:08 GMT


 RD> "daughter of" spelt
 RD> "uerch", "verch" and "ferch". I don't know which is 
 RD> correct, but I do know
 Probably all of them, depending on what sound it was following and/or 
 preceding.  Welsh and the other Celtic languages "mutate".  That is, 
 the spelling (of the same word) changes depending on those character-
 istics.  I haven't studied it closely enough to tell you where it's 
 supposed to change, but it does.
     Gwenllian Cwmystwyth
        Steppes, Ansteorra

 * Origin: Herald's Point * Steppes/Ansteorra * 214-699-0057 (1:124/4229)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
From: bwilson@eng.auburn.edu (Brian Scott Wilson)
Subject: Re: swords
Reply-To: bwilson@eng.auburn.edu
Organization: Auburn University Engineering
Date: Tue, 10 Nov 1992 20:23:05 GMT

In article 25920@pbhya.PacBell.COM, whheydt@pbhya.PacBell.COM (Wilson Heydt) writes:
>In article <1992Nov9.185650.13581@ee.gatech.edu> ldh@eedsp.gatech.edu (Lonnie D Harvel) writes:
>>Alas, I have been fortunate in the events that I have attended.
>>I have been aware of thefts at events, but the attempts to
>>force entry into revel sites is distressing.  
>
>In general, I think your fortune *is* general.  At most events I've
>ever been at, there have be few or no problems--and the problems have
>been minor.
>

Drawing my foot from my mouth I will have to agree with Hal. The point that
I was trying to make was that even in Meridies problems occur. I have never
had a problem at Hard Labor Creek State Park. But have been witness and involved
in several at Fort Gaines. Other ones have been minor. But by saying that we
Don't have those kind of problems in Meridies, we set ourselves up for a big 
fall. So far I know of no instances of armed trespassers but that doesn't mean
it can't happen or that we shouldn't keep an eye open for it. If you want
details then talk to Aedward, our Kingdom Senachal.

Brian, Princeps Meridies


Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
From: pa142548@utkvm1.utk.edu (T. Archer)
Subject: Pensic Autocrat
Organization: University of Tennessee 
Date: Mon, 9 Nov 1992 21:29:41 GMT

I deeply regret burdening this forum with my noisome presence once again.

Barely a day had passed since I retired, that I might cease to offend, than 
the patriarch of my house did bid me ask if any gentles on the net could 
give the name and address of the Pensic Autocrat.

I retire, again.
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
Vote Dempublican, it's easier than thinking.
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
From: parr@acs.ucalgary.ca (Charles Parr)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: Constabulary and Weapons
Date: 9 Nov 92 17:20:39 GMT
Organization: The University of Calgary, Alberta

In article <721123218.AA00000@blkcat.UUCP> Bob.Upson@f333.n142.z1.fidonet.org (Bob Upson) writes:
>CP> I hold that the constabulary is in a similar position.
>
Bob Upson writes...
It is, IMHO, contrary to the aims of the SCA to create titled
officers charged with the duty to provide vigilante justice at
SCA events.  That is exactly one of the images we should avoid at
all costs.  If the need is felt to provide extraordinary security
at an event and it is not practical to prudently relocate the
event to a more secure location, then proper measures should be
taken by the autocrat to hire or otherwise engage properly
licensed contractual security personnel.  

My reply...
Vigilante justice, as you term it, is not at issue. *Security*,
of the same standard you might find at an office building, or
a public park is what we are talking about. People who are
charged with the safety of other members, so that those other
members can quietly enjoy their event. As for hiring outside
security, it has come to my attention that this has been tried
and failed fairly miserably. Among other things, a person
found stealing a very large amount of property was discovered
by SCA constables, not site security...

Carolus Malvoix
Montengarde An Tir
-- 
Within the span of the last few weeks I have heard elements of
separate threads which, in that they have been conjoined in time,
struck together to form a new chord within my hollow and echoing
gourd. --Unknown net.person
From: SAUNDRSG@qucdn.queensu.ca (Graydon)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: visible inauthenticity of archery
Date: 5 Nov 92 02:37:00 GMT
Organization: The Internet

Greetings!

Someone posted something about recurves being period; surely they
are.  (I'm hoping my interest in English warbow isn't leaking into
misaphrensions!).  They are even period for Western Europe after
the first Crusade or so, at least by manuscript evidence (that is,
the little guys in the margins are using them every now and again.)
These bows are almost certainly imports - any bowyer able to make
one would have no reason to leave al-Islam, or his tribe, and the
local bowyers wherever he ended up wouldn't be delighted to see
him, either.  ("O most honourable Muhammed Ali Akabar, Guardian
of Mankind, most humble self desires to go and dwell amoung the
Christians and make them weapons" is *not* a likely scenario!)

However, modern recurves differ in several obvious ways from the
period article.  Most modern recurves have a distinct 'riser',
a central solid non-flexing block, which can be 2/5ths or more
of the length of the bow (nearly half on many Olympic style target
bows).  I have yet to see any evidence that such a design existed
in period.

The ratio between the thickness and the width of the bow limbs
runs from about 1:8 and up in modern recurves; this is rather too
high for the period article.  Best guess would be about 1:6 for
the drawings that I have seen.

The period recurves have a much more pronounced recurving - up
to 1/3 of the limb has the string touching it when the bow is
braced but not drawn.  The fraction is generally less than 1/6
and often only a 1/12th or so in modern bows.

Add in the complete dearth of period examples of cutout risers,
arrow rests, or pistol grips, and the modern recurve bow becomes
very obviously OOP.

This is, to some degree, not an addressable problem.  If one has
the interest and the money, it is quite possible to get a period
style recurve, but a requirement for this would be like expecting
everyone to wear period shoes before being allowed to dance.

What would help would be to devise competitions on more period
models.  That would be binary (hit/miss) scoring, smallish
marks (circles the size of your helm are about the biggest
I can find evidence for (Lutteral Psalter), longer and more
random ranges, and some kind of elimination structure.  (Robin
Hood ballads, probably only applicable for larger competitions.)
Ditch the five colour Prince's colours targets.

This is *not* a lot of work or expense; white cardboard circles
are pretty trivial to obtain.  So, many places, are green sticks.
(Use something *soft* - willow or apple suckers are good; so is
*green* cedar.  Don't mangle any trees - either clip the suckers
properly or do in an entire sapling and keep the wood wet.)

Graydon, who is going to have to make some more arrows soon...
From: odlin@reed.edu (Iain Odlin)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: gun toting rednecks
Date: 7 Nov 92 22:29:24 GMT
Article-I.D.: reed.1992Nov7.222924.21936
Organization: The Stuffed Animal Trauma Team  (We're Trained Professionals)

In article <1992Nov7.085226.8662@nntp.hut.fi> c34657b@saha.hut.fi (Tuomas Viljanen) writes:
>Poor tactics. The best tactics are just to go away, ignoring the asshole.

  As has been pointed out before, this method *does* *not* *work* in all cases.
  I grew up in back-woods An Tir (where red-neck, gun-totin' idjits are dime
  a dozen) and that is one of the first things you learn if you're a "four-
  eyed egg-head" (and guess who *that* was...).  These people, when in a mood
  to "scare us some wierdo faggots," are going to treat you even more cruelly
  if you ignore them.  Painful first-hand experience (and several broken bones)
  taught me this one.

  The sorry fact is that there is *no* real way to "win" when these sort of
  people do this sort of thing.  They aren't there to just scare you, they're
  there to prove their "manliness" to each other.  Does a "man," when that
  'fact' is on the line in front of his best buds, just say, "Oh shucks, they
  are ignoring me," and walk away?  Nope.

>Of course, I do not know whether shooting people is the normal way to
>handle affairs in the Wild West, here in the Europe people are more civilized

  Oh Ghod...  Not this attitude; not here:  Please.  People are people *any-
  where*, be they in Europe or America.  There are cruel types in both places.

-- 
 --------------------------------- Iain Odlin ---------------------------------
                  10 Crosby Street, Level 3, Portland ME 04103
                                 odlin@reed.edu
 --- Often, the light at the end of the tunnel is really an oncoming train. ---
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
From: sommerfeld@apollo.hp.com (Bill Sommerfeld)
Subject: Re: Science and ARt
Date: Fri, 13 Nov 1992 19:50:52 GMT
Organization: Hewlett Packard

In article <9211121722.AA03617@math.bu.edu> jeffs@math.bu.EDU (Jeff Suzuki) writes:

   How 'bout this for the difference between science and art: in science,
   you don't care (and --- usually --- prefer!) if it comes out identical
   the second time; in art, you consciously try to make it different on
   the repeat?

Nope.. that turns non-improvisational performing arts into sciences if
you ever want to perform the same thing more than once for different
audiences.

It won't come out identical, but, at least in multi-part music, the
group is striving for an "ideal" performance and wants to get as close
to that as possible... you adjust things the performances in
rehearsal, decide on what you want to do then, and then "freeze"
things for performance.

					 - Bill
From: Beth.Appleton@f4229.n124.z1.fidonet.org (Beth Appleton)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: chocolate
Date: 4 Nov 92 15:52:32 GMT


 HB>   I have heard that they made it much like coffee 
 HB> but with roasted cocoa beans.
 HB> I have also heard that they flavored it with chili peppers.
  I shall go search through my references.  I've read the bit about 
 chilis myself.  I threaten occasionally to serve hot chocolate at an 
 event........ period style, with said chi/jlis.  Sort of like liquid 
 mole' sauce, no?
    A possible source might be a book called _Foods_of_the_New_World_. 
 None of my stuff is here, but that's p4 where I'm going to look, 
 once the weekend gets here.
  So, don't hold your breath, but I'll work on it....
     Gwenllian Cwmystwyth
     Beth.Appleton@f4229.n124.z1.fidonet.org

 * Origin: Herald's Point * Steppes/Ansteorra * 214-699-0057 (1:124/4229)