From: elg@elgamy.sccsi.com (Eric Lee Green)
Date: 28 Jul 92 22:09:04 CDT
Newsgroups: misc.kids,misc.education
Subject: Re: Educational funding (was Hillary Clinton)
Distribution: world
Organization: Eric's Amiga 2000 @ Home

From article <1992Jul27.193210.20952@cbnewsi.cb.att.com>, by klf@cbnewsi.cb.att.com (karen.l.fenton):
> In article <00712118388@elgamy.sccsi.com>, elg@elgamy.sccsi.com (Eric Lee Green) writes:
>>
>> It is misleading to compare the $4500/student spent in Kansas to the
>> $8K/student spent in New Jersey. Everybody knows that most of the money
>> spent in New Jersey goes straight into the coffers of corrupt government
>> officials etc., anyhow :-(.
>>
>
> BULL and double bull!!!
>
> Eric, I thought we had got you past these idiotic generalizations!

Uhm, did you see the... oops. My smiley is going the wrong direction!
(Sorry). A quick comparison of the goings-on at Madison Square Garden a few
weeks ago with the goings-on at the Astrodome a few weeks from now will
demonstrate the difference between New Jersey and Kansas (yes, different
states from the two venues, but same general political climate). At MSG,
the Democratic National Committee had to deal with sixteen different
unions. Nobody was allowed to plug and unplug their own computer equipment,
or haul their own gear into the arena, or anything without a highly-paid
union flunky there to "do" the work. By comparison, the only union involved
in the Republican convention here at the Astrodome is an electrician's
union, and it wouldn't dare try any nonsense like that -- it knows that
it'd be laughed out of the state while another (non-union) contractor was
hired to replace them. When the AFL-CIO called a strike against a local
grocer, less than 1% of the workers walked out (most of them to go to
rival grocery chains), and they had to pay people from New Mexico to come
here and walk the picket lines!

The cost of holding a convention in New York City is thus artificially
inflated. I assume that the cost of holding school in New Jersey is
similarly inflated. Your remark about the unions in New Jersey is telling.

> The high per pupil costs in NJ are a direct result of the state's
> constitutional educational provision for each child according
> to his/her need and regardless of cost.
> Simply put, the local board of education is *REQUIRED* to provide and
> pay for any and ALL educational needs of every child from birth to age
> twenty-one. All of it. Every kid. Every problem from autism to deafness,
> from cerebral palsy to socioeconomically disadvantaged, from physically
> handicapped to emotionally impaired.

This is true nation-wide, and is not a provision of the New Jersey
constitution. Rather, it is a provision of the Education for All
Handicapped act.

> That's one of the drivers of the high cost. Another factor is
> the cost of living in NJ which drives up the cost of everything
> from heat to water to crayons.

True enough.

> Well come on up to NJ, Eric and start with us as a *brand new,
> inexperienced teacher - straight out of teacher college* at a salary
> of $32,600. Tack on a benefits package that is about $8k and maybe

No thank you. My $21,000 here (actually $23,000, but $2,000 is taken out
over the year to pay for my internship) is worth MUCH more than your
$32,600. I can get a good apartment here for around $220/month. In New
Jersey, if D.C. prices hold there, the same apartment would be close to
$600/month...



> you'll begin to reassess your views. Actually, we're doing what the
> nation claims it wants - putting our money into teacher's and
> children. Some reward, huh? damed if you do and damned if you don't.
>
> As for differentiating subject specialists pay...talk to the
> NEA. We'd do it in a minute if the union would allow it.

The NEA tried complaining about that here in Houston some years ago. In
fact, they called a strike. The strikers were promptly fired. As a result,
the NEA no longer has much membership inside the Houston Independent School
District. The HFT (Houston Federation of Teachers) is affiliated with the
AFT, which is in turn affiliated with the AFL-CIO. They scream and yell,
but so far have had little impact upon school district policy except to get
paperwork requirements for teachers reduced somewhat (which at least is
SOMETHING, though hardly enough to justify their dues!). Note that Texas is
a Right To Work state, so teachers aren't required to join the union, and
the union only represents its members -- not the whole body of H.I.S.D.
teachers.

Your comment about the power of the NEA in New Jersey just unscores the
difference between New Jersey and Kansas. In Kansas, if somebody called a
teacher strike, that union would be laughed out of the state.

--
 Eric Lee Green  elg@elgamy.sccsi.com         Dodson Elementary
 (713) 437-6908  uunet!nuchat!elgamy!elg      Houston, TX
                "Kids are kids, no matter what"
Newsgroups: misc.kids