From: z_copeab@ccsvax.sfasu.edu
Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.dnd
Subject: Re: Chromosonally-Challenged Characters
Date: 26 Aug 92 12:25:00 CST
Followup-To: rec.games.frp.dnd
Organization: Stephen F. Austin State University

In article <gz6e0no@Unify.Com>, caa@Unify.Com (Chris A. Anderson) writes:
> In article <1992Aug24.121219.659@ccsvax.sfasu.edu> z_copeab@ccsvax.sfasu.edu writes:
>> In article <1992Aug24.090013.1@vaxb.acs.unt.edu>, wilsonm@vaxb.acs.unt.edu writes:
>> > feel the Elvish bonuses are not legal then whay not bring up all the other
>> > races?  They all are on an equal level in respect to bonuses and special
>> > abilities.
>> 
>> 	Nope, elves are *extremely* unbalanced. Most of the elves' bonuses come
>> into play more often than the other races bonuses. And what about humans? Where
>> are their bonuses? The only two advantages humans have are (1) can belong to
>> any class, and (2) no level limit. Unfortunately, both of these bonuses are
>> there purely for Game Balance, and make no real sense on their own merit. The
>> ability to be dual classes is pretty worthless when demi-humans can be
>> multi-classed. Also, many of us run campaigns where the characters never get to
>> a level high enough for level limits to kick in (with me, its that characters
>> simply advance slowly).
> 
> I disagree.  As you gain levels, the humans will outpace those multi-class
> characters quite a bit.  When you throw in level limits, the races are
> quite well balanced.

	What about demi-humans that are *not* multi-class? Most players I know
prefer not to run multi-class characters anyway.

> 
> Even the racial bonuses that the elves have don't make any difference
> past third or fourth level.  They really just don't come into play 
> that often.  The +1 to bow/sword is completely overshadowed by weapon
> specialization, etc.  Resistance to charm and sleep becomes much less
> important as everyone gains levels.

	Unfortunately, levels 1-4 are the make-or-break levels for most
characters, since those are the levels that PCs are very easy to kill
without using anything of much power. The +1 to bow/sword is very useful if
the elf *isn't* a fighter. The other bonuses give demi-humans (mainly elves)
a huge bonus to start with.

> 
>> 	If you took the various AD&D races, and used a point-based system (Hero
>> or GURPS) to reconstruct them, I'm pretty sure that elves would be at the top
>> and humans at the bottom. The races simply aren't balanced. The more powerful
>> ones (elves, and to a lesser extent dwarves) need *penalties*, such as elves
>> taking damage from touching (cold) iron.
> 
> Why?  What would that solve?

	It wouldn't 'solve' anything, but it would show how unbalanced the races
are, and that it needs to be fixed.

> 
>> > As to your belief that elves are a "munchin-for-beginners" race I would
>> > have to say that you have never had an experince with role playing unless
>> > you have tried the elf at least once.  I prefer them to humans because of
>> 					 ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>> > the multi-class abilities.  Although Humans can do dual class, I prefer the
>> ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>> > movement in levels to move at the same level...My choice.
>>                             
>> 	This is min-maxing/powergaming! You have just said that elves are more
>> desireable to play than humans -- if they were really balanced, you would be
>> deciding with roleplaying in mind, not which race gives you the better bonus,
>> as YOU HAVE JUST DONE!
> 
> Oh, bullshit.  He may just like multi-class characters better than 
> single classes.  Some people do.
> 

	Most DMs I know (including me) allow humans to be multi-class, because
we can see no good reason why they *shouldn't* be. Still, over 75% of the PCs
in my camapigns over the years have been single classed, and over half of the
PCs have been human (half-elves are more popular than full elves).

Brandon Cope