HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: davidba@carmel.technion.ac.il (David Ben_Ami)
Subject: Re: Arab Jews are ARABS
Organization: Technion, Israel Inst. of Technology
Date: Sat, 10 Oct 1992 17:40:56 GMT

In article <1992Oct5.224907.22798@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu> kshammou@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (Khaled J Shammout) writes:
>In Article: 52226 of talk.politics.mideast, (Edward A Shnekendorf) writes:
>
>>(Khaled Shammout) writes:
>
>>>     And finally, what about all those special rights and priviliges that are
>>>offered ONLY to the new comers to Israel.  And guess who the new comers
>>>are??? Jews, of course.
>
>>Maybe you forget that Israel is a Jewish State.  It is here for the benefit
>>and security of Jews.  Perhaps if Jews had been treated better in other parts
>                                ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>>of the world including the Arab countries then such a thing would not have
>                                           ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>>been necessary.
> ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>
>     AH HAAAA!  So the Jews did not want to settle in Palestine because of
>religious reasons!!!!!!
>
>     Just another proof in the defense of the Palestinian TRUTH.

Proof?? The Jews came to Erez-Israel because they were prosecuted everywhere
and had NO homeland. They came to this country because it was the historical
and religious center of Jews in the Biblical and Talmudic eras. This is
also the country that they prayed for all the 2000 years of exile.

They did not come because of religious reasons - they came because of 
existential problems (literaly) - the choice of place was motivated by
historical and religious motives.

They did not come to throw the indeginous people out! They hardly knew
about their existence. (And in fact the country was in near desolate 
situation then - desert and swamps). They tried to build a home for themselves
while living side by side with Arabs,Armenians and whoever else lived
in the country. The outright animosity of the Arabs made many Jews rethink
their position and try to establish a Jewish State beside an Arab State.


>
>Wa Salam

Inshalla
>______________________
>Khaled Shammout

David.
-- 
=============================================================================
  David Ben-Ami (irc: bigdav)      |   "I can resist anything but Temptation"
  s2780369@Techst02.Technion.Ac.Il |       Oscar Wilde
  davidba@Carmel.Technion.Ac.Il  davidba@Moav.Techniona.Ac.Il
Xref: sparky talk.politics.mideast:20989 soc.culture.arabic:4213
From: khater@sun14.vlsi.uwaterloo.ca (Issam Abu-Khater)
Subject: Earthquake Relief Fund
Keywords: Relief, Earthquake, Egypt
Organization: University of Waterloo
Date: Fri, 16 Oct 1992 03:48:21 GMT

Assalam alaikum, 
I am forwarding this message to all of you as requested by
Dr. Hossam Hassanein. Please note that any information
or questions regarding this effort should be directed to
the names mentioned at the end of the message.
Issam
==========================================================
From hossam@bbcr.uwaterloo.ca Thu Oct 15 16:24:14 1992
Message-Id: <9210152024.AA02274@bcr4.uwaterloo.ca>
Subject: Earthquake relief fund
To: khater@vlsi
Date: Thu, 15 Oct 92 16:24:10 EDT


		Egyptian Earthquake Relief Fund


Egyptian Canadians have established a relief fund with the Canadian
Imperial Bank of Commerce (CIBC) to help the victims of the recent 
earthquake in Egypt. Please send your donations in Canadian Funds
payable to the "Egyptian Earthquake Relief Fund" at:

	Egyptian Earthquake Relief Fund
	P.O.Box: 823
	Waterloo, Ontario
	N2J 4C2

Tax receipts will be issued (upon request) and mailed to you. Donations
will be channeled to the appropriate authorities. One such channel is
through Al-Ahram newspaper. Names of contributers should then appear in
the paper. (If you like your name withheld, please indicate so.)

Thousands in Egypt are wounded, and many more homeless. Shortages has
been reported in Medical supplies and appropriate shelter. Estimated
losses are in excess  of 200 million dollars.
Please contribute to help the victims of the earthquake and to support
the rebuilding of Egypt. 

God bless all.


For further Information Contact:

Dr. Hossam Hassanein
Department of Electrical & Computer Engineering
University of Waterloo
Waterloo, Ontario
N2L 3G1
Tel:    (519) 885-1211  ext: 3737
	(519) 725-2967
e-mail: hossam@bbcr.uwaterloo.ca

or

Dr. M.I. El-Masry
Dept. of Electrical and Computer Engineering
University of Waterloo
Waterloo, Ontario
N2L 3G1
Tel:    (519) 885-1211  ext: 3753


ps.	This effort is sponsored by the K-W Islamic association.
	CIBC is not responsible for issuing receipts for tax purposes.

Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast
From: dzk@cs.brown.edu (Danny Keren)
Subject: Re: Serbia etc.
Organization: Brown University Department of Computer Science
Date: Mon, 12 Oct 1992 00:58:12 GMT

arnaud@csd.uwo.ca (Arnaud Lallouet) writes:

#While browsing through this newsgroup, I fell upon this pearl.

#In talk.politics.mideast #61007  dzk@cs.brown.edu (Danny Keren) writes

##I never said that. I don't believe there is such a thing as a "right
##over a country". I don't believe the British have a "right" to be
##in Britain, the Danes don't have a "right" to be in Denmark, etc. 
##Israel was founded just like any other country was founded. Many

#Gee ! Is this the "wandering Jew syndrome" still at work ? Do you 
#found a country just the way you would pitch your tent while 
#camping outdoors ?

Well, I spent 28 years of my life in Israel, and will most probably
go back there. How long have you lived in Israel?

But lets leave this personal thing aside. Do you believe any country
has a right over the land it "owns"? If so, what is this right based
on, and how can it be objectively determined?

-Danny Keren.
From: aaldoubo@copper.denver.colorado.edu (Anisa Alnoor Aldoubosh)
Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast
Subject: Re: Answer to nabeel
Date: 12 Oct 92 16:59:00 GMT
Organization: University of Colorado at Denver

In article <Bw0Kww.73t.2@cs.cmu.edu> anwar+@cs.cmu.edu (Anwar Mohammed) writes:
>In article <4034@copper.Denver.Colorado.EDU> aaldoubo@copper.denver.colorado.edu (Anisa Alnoor Aldoubosh) writes:
>
>I can scarcely think of anything more ridiculous than Anisa 
>attacking anyone on this newsgroup for their lack of "wit, 
>intelligence, or logic."

Your posting just proves my previous point to your supporter, Razooqi.  
He can't even answer on his own!  You can't even think of anything
original to say and continue along his lines of undermining another
person because they do not agree or support your position.  Does that
call into question your own 'wit' and 'intelligence'?

From what you state, Anwar, it is even more ridiculous and funny.  You
don't even use your own brain - your sources, information, and overall
thinking and philosophy are not even your own!

>your adversary.  Witty?  Intelligent?  Logical?  No, just the same 
>old boring nonsense.

It seems that you are too challenged where your own government stands
that you didn't bother to post any responses that did not drip of the
sweet propoganda from your government that you want others to digest.

>Yawn,
>anwar

Go back to sleep, Anwar.  You just are speaking incohesively!

Anisa

	"We don't live in Israel.  Not at all.  We live in
	Palestinian territory.  It's Israeli occupied."
					Hanan Ashrawi

Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast
From: hm@cs.brown.edu (Harry Mamaysky)
Subject: Re: Arab, non-Arabs, and criticism of Israel/Jews
Organization: Somewhere East or Somewhere West
Date: Fri, 16 Oct 1992 15:44:30 GMT

In article <1992Oct15.150520.341@cs.brown.edu>, dzk@cs.brown.edu (Danny Keren) writes:
|> I would like to hear an answer from everybody, but especially from
|> the Arab/Muslim readers, to the following question.
|> 
|> After all, Israel's problems and disagreements are with its 
|> neighbours and with the Palestinians. Israel hardly is a factor
|> in areas execpt for the middle-east. One would expect that the
|> most vocal and violent arguments in this newsgroups would be
|> between Jews/Israelis and Muslims/Arabs.
|> 
|> Yet, this is not the case. The most cruel, unfair, and antisemitic
|> posters come, in the very large part, from people who are
|> not Arabs nor Muslims, and who live in countries which have
|> nothing to do with the middle-east. 
|> 
|> Naturaly I don't advocate censorship of any kind. But I just wonder
|> what the reasons for this strange phenomena are. Perhaps there
|> is some natural affinity between Jews and Muslims, in spite
|> of all the difficulties and bloodshed. Or, perhaps, antisemitism
|> is alive and kicking in the west?

An opinion: 

Anti-semitism is most definitely alive and kicking in the west (and
east and south, etc.). Fortunately, in America, anti-semitism, as well
as all other forms of discrimination and hatred, are not as prevalent
as in other places in the world. Mostly this is due to the
unprecedented diversity of American society. This is one of the few
countries in the world where such a wonderful mix of cultures exists.
It is this quality (not America's "whiteness" [Davey Dukey boy,
wheneve]) which makes America great.

But anti-semitism does exist. It is of course baseless and hateful and
illogical (as all forms of racism tend to be), but it does exist. And,
many of the posters to this newsgroup express not objective, or even
emotional, opinions on the middle east issues, but rather opinions
meant to be merely insulting and inflamatory to the Jewish readers. Of
course, I do not imply that ALL non-Arab posters with anti-Israeli
views are anti-semitic. A lot though, seem to be just that.


In response to Khaled's posting on this issue: Khaled many of the
non-Arab posters who claim anti-Israeli (and anti-semitic) views have
those views based not on any sort of logical examination of the issues
at hand, but based purely on a hatred of Jews. I would hope that these
are not the sort of debate allies you would choose - I don't know of
too many anti-semites who have any great love for the Arab people
either.

|> -Danny Keren.

Harry.
Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast
From: makowsky@enuxha.eas.asu.edu (David Makowsky)
Subject: Re: DEMANDS PALESTINIAN HUNGER STRIKERS IN ISRAELI PRISONS
Summary: Obscene demands by terrorists
Reply-To: makowsky@enuxha.eas.asu.edu (David Makowsky)
Organization: Arizona State University, Tempe AZ
Date: Fri, 9 Oct 1992 13:53:05 GMT

In article <22602@venera.isi.edu> arens@ISI.EDU (Yigal Arens) writes:
 
# Forwarded from another list:
 
# From: Gert van Velzen <gertv@ooc.uva.nl>

# DEMANDS PALESTINIAN HUNGER STRIKERS IN ISRAELI PRISONS AND
# DETENTION CENTRES

# GENERAL DEMANDS

	 [ list of demands deleted - dlm ]

	It is obscene that terrorists should make demands.  However, a
lot of the blame probably goes to the weak and whimpy way Israel
treats these "palestinian?" terrorists.  It is what gives them the
CHutzpa to even think about making these demands, let alone actually
present them.  What is even more obscene is that anyone else would
take them seriously and present them (take the hint Yigal).

	However, these demands would be unnecessary, and the lives of all
"palestinians?" would be much better if they would just adhere to one
simple demand.  Stop the war against the Jews.
--

David Makowsky
makowsky@enuxha.eas.asu.edu
From: shaig@merlin.think.com (Shai Guday)
Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast
Subject: Re: DEMANDS PALESTINIAN HUNGER STRIKERS IN ISRAELI PRISONS
Date: 16 Oct 92 09:03:30
Organization: Thinking Machines Corporation, Cambridge Mass., USA
	<1992Oct15.214756.21020@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu>
	<1992Oct15.225645.19873@ennews.eas.asu.edu>
	<4087@copper.Denver.Colorado.EDU>
NNTP-Posting-Host: merlin.think.com
In-reply-to: aaldoubo@copper.denver.colorado.edu's message of 16 Oct 92 06:12:38 GMT


In article <4087@copper.Denver.Colorado.EDU> aaldoubo@copper.denver.colorado.edu (Anisa Alnoor Aldoubosh) writes:

   In article <1992Oct15.225645.19873@ennews.eas.asu.edu> makowsky@enuxha.eas.asu.edu (David Makowsky) writes:

   >	One thing is certain, however.  You certainly do have a lot of
   >guts.  You have absolutely no fear of constantly showing how ignorant
   >you are in public.  Will you do it again in another response?

   Yes, we are all just ignorant and worthless human beings.  Let us bow
   down and kiss the hands of our most esteemed, intelligent, and
   humanitarian Israeli masters for enlightenment.

I hate to allow myself to get dragged into this but I am not even
sure whether the person you were responding to was or is an Israeli.
I am and I don't take kindly to being included in the above reply.
Could we limit the sweeping generalizations a bit?

   Anisa
From: davidba@carmel.technion.ac.il (David Ben_Ami)
Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast
Subject: Re: Alan Dershowitz on Bosnia
Date: 10 Oct 92 18:25:37 GMT
Organization: Technion, Israel Inst. of Technology

In article <1992Oct6.133758.603@cs.brown.edu> dzk@cs.brown.edu (Danny Keren) writes:
>[Anisa's article deleted to save space]
>
>I tend to agree with Dershowitz. What is happening in Bosnia today
>is horrible, it is reminiscent of the Holocaust and of Stalin's
>purges, but it is not comparable to either of them.
>
>The Nazis exterminated 12 million civilians between 1939 and 1945,
>most of them by direct killing, many others by delibarate starvation
>and overwork. The common use of the term "Holocaust" to describe
>other atrocities trivializes the word and does no good neither
>to the victims of the Nazi Holocaust nor to the current victims.

I agree.

>Same goes for using "Hitler" to freely. Another banalization
>that obscures what Hitler was and what he did. Words should not
>be used too freely, or they lose their meaning.

Here I beg to differ. I think that Hitler's name can be used for the
likes of Saddam Husein quite accurately. Hitler has 2 major "reputations"
in recent history. (actually there are more): 1. genocide and fervent 
hatred to minorities and Jews in particular.
2. the most blatant Machiavelistic brutal dictator in this century. 
   (with Stalin close at his heel).

in the second "hat", it is quite fitting for the Iraq-Kuwait situation
to call Saddam "a little Hitler". I think that Bush and Major were right
in these statements but I'm very sorry that they didn't act on it till
the end.

>
>-Danny Keren.

Chag Sameach (Happy Holliday)

  David.
-- 
=============================================================================
  David Ben-Ami (irc: bigdav)      |   "I can resist anything but Temptation"
  s2780369@Techst02.Technion.Ac.Il |       Oscar Wilde
  davidba@Carmel.Technion.Ac.Il  davidba@Moav.Techniona.Ac.Il
From: bgdv706@utxvms.cc.utexas.edu (Noam Tractinsky)
Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast
Subject: Re: Serbia etc.
Date: 15 Oct 92 02:19:23 GMT
Organization: University of Texas @ Austin

In article <26595@castle.ed.ac.uk>, jeremy@castle.ed.ac.uk (JHenderson) writes:
> Article in todays "Guardian":
> 
> Serbs court Jewish veterrans as 'natural allies'
> 
> .
> .
> .
> The Belgrade government has consistently sought the [Jewish Friendship]
> society's support in the Croation conflict. Statements from the organization 
> have lent moral justification to the Serbian cause, while television
> appearances by Mrs. Mandic and composer Enrico Josef - famous for his
> description of Serbs as "celestial people" - have reinforced the belief
> that Jews are Serbs natural allies.
> .
> .
> .


	While the context to this article excerpt is - not surprisingly -
	missing (see how many dots top to toe), it is interesting to 
	note that another poster had exactly the opposite impression 
	reading British newspapers on that very same day (see below). 
	The question of whether what Phill Hallam-Baker call "the 
	mainstream Jewish community in the UK" are more represantative 
	of the Jewish sentiment in general than Mrs. Mandic and composer 
	Josef is left as a self exercise to the reader.

	If the reader is still having difficulties in making up his/her
	mind, he/she might want to consider the bit of information provided
	about Josef's background ("celestial people"...).

        However, at this stage I cannot help the reader who doesn't 
	understand at all why the opinions of composer Josef on the 
	Serbian conflict are relevant to tpm.




> 
> -- 
> ===Jeremy Henderson===jeremy@castle.ed.ac.uk=          Vommen


Noam


----------   Hallam-Baker's article begins -----------------

X-NEWS: utxvms.cc.utexas.edu talk.politics.mideast: 66246
From: hallam@zeus02.desy.de (Phill Hallam-Baker)
Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast
Subject: Re: Alan Dershowitz on Bosnia
Date: 6 Oct 92 14:15:40 GMT
Reply-To: Hallam@zeus02.desy.de
Organization: Deutsches Elektronen Synchrotron, Experiment ZEUS bei HERA

[Article in which Dershowitz tries to claim that equating the Holocaust with the
Serbian "ethnic cleansing" attrocities is somehow anti-Jewish deleted]

I think that Dershowitz is completely in opposition to the mainstream Jewish
community in the UK. There have been many letters in the British press incuding
one from the President of my Oxford College, Wolfson making precisely this
comparison.

Dershowitz is a lawyer whose concerns range from laudible charity cases to a
unique brand of high class ambulance chasing. He has a dangerous tendency to
equate opposition to his political views with anti semitism. Since his chief
antagonists seem to be Yigal Arens and Noam Chomsky (Chomsky vs Dershowitz is
the Cliche' middle east debate) this is a strange view indeed.

--

Phill Hallam-Baker

------------------  End of article -------------
From: bc744@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Mark Ira Kaufman)
Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast
Subject: HOW ABOUT A LITTLE BALANCE, JEREMY.
Date: 7 Oct 1992 22:11:27 GMT
Organization: Case Western Reserve University, Cleveland, Ohio (USA)
NNTP-Posting-Host: slc4.ins.cwru.edu


   It's not that Jeremy Henderson is a liar, but his postings are
completely unbalanced.  He repeatedly will cite a response by the
Israeli Army to some terrorist act or other violence, but he will
fail to mention the incident that triggered the response.  Or, in
an attempt to look like he cares about the Palestinians, he makes
a point of discussing the occupied territories, while he makes no
mention of the fact that Palestinians are treated worse in almost
every other country in the middle east.  He will cite some absurd
position held by some Israeli extremist, and deliberately portray
this position as mainstream.  He ignores all incidents of murder,
terrorism, and rioting on the part of Palestinians.  His penchant
for misrepresentation reveals a bias that has reduced his ability
to be objective about Jews or Israel to nothing.
-- 
   "One can be a racist.  Or one can be a human being.  But one
may not be both."
                                 - Rabbi Abraham Joshua heschel

Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast
From: jle@locus.com (John Elghani/10000000)
Subject: Re: casualties during the Intifadah
Organization: LC
Date: Wed, 14 Oct 1992 05:53:18 GMT

In article <1992Oct13.225505.18386@muddcs.claremont.edu> gmeltzne@jarthur.claremont.edu (Manu) writes:
>	Next I'll here that Israel is to blame for the earthquake
>	in Cairo.

Why do you find that hard to believe?  :)
May be they are ocean testing one of their 220 nuke bombs that 
they are preparing 10 for each arabic country.  Where else can they test?
Don't undermind their activities.   You tell me, what are the Mossads
doing in Kashmir?  Why do they wish to crush the movement their?
Isn't that surprising?

>>Where is Judea, by the way?
>>
>Try the West Bank.

How about Germany or Russia.  Germans and Russians are comming to 
the land and wanting to reinstante Judea  as theirs.  Why don't they
leave it to its natives.  THe Judaea people are the current natives,
not the 100% blonde.  The Judea people may have been Jewish by religion
in the past, but converted to Christianity and Islam as these two religions
reached there as well.  Yes, the expelled Palestinians may have been Jews
to start with but converted to other religions.  What's the big deal.
This does not give a polish convert the right over the native
that may have been a jew living in judea then converted to something else.
The Afghani people were all jewish, now they are all muslims.
Are you surprised?

jle
Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast
From: makowsky@enuxha.eas.asu.edu (David Makowsky)
Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast
Subject: Re: DEMANDS PALESTINIAN HUNGER STRIKERS IN ISRAELI PRISONS
Summary: Khaled J Shammout demonstrates his ignorance
Date: 15 Oct 92 22:56:45 GMT
Reply-To: makowsky@enuxha.eas.asu.edu (David Makowsky)
Organization: Arizona State University, Tempe AZ

In article <1992Oct15.214756.21020@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu> kshammou@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (Khaled J Shammout) writes:

#      Obviously Mr. Makowsky does not know anything about urban warfare, or he 
# is just a cold blooded murderer.

	I am defintely not a cold blooded murderer.  And I may not even
know anything about urban warfare (although I doubt it because until
recently military tactics was one of my interests), but he has not
demonstrated that here.

	One thing is certain, however.  You certainly do have a lot of
guts.  You have absolutely no fear of constantly showing how ignorant
you are in public.  Will you do it again in another response?

# For your information, soldiers do not go 
# about
# throwing grenades (or bombarding) any structure without checking that no
# civilians are in there.  The exception is when they face armed resistance from
# a particular structure then they may attack it without "ringing the bell".

	They do not need to face resitance from a particular structure.
They simply need to be in heavy, urban house to house combat getting
resistance from somewhere nearby, or they might need to take a certain
structure in a hurry.  There are lots of other reasons also.  I should
not have to give them here.  Or do you wish me to list them, one by
one?  Since you obviously enjoy demonstrating your ignorance, it would
be my greatest pleasure to help you out.

# And
# ofcourse, this was not the case with the Zionist terrorist groups operating in
# Palestine in 1948 (or even after that).

	I agree.  It was not the case with the empty set you have just
described.
--

David Makowsky
makowsky@enuxha.eas.asu.edu
jhsegal
Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast
Subject: Condoleances
From: jhsegal@wiscon.weizmann.ac.il (Akiba Segal)
Date: Thu, 15 Oct 1992 12:23:31 GMT
Organization: Weizmann Institute of Science, Computation Center


   Since there is not such a newsgroup as soc.culture.egypt I decided to
post this message here.
   I want to express,by this,my condoleances to all the Egyptian families who
had lost a close soul in the tragic disaster in Cairo 2 days ago.I also want
to wish fast recovery to all the wounded in this earthquaqe.
				   Livian Segal
				   Weizmann Institute of Science
				   ISRAEL

 ---------------This Was Another L I V Y ' S  Production----------------------

  __     __  __    ___ __     _     ___   __
    |      |   \     /   |     \       \    | VM/CMS:
    |      |    \   /    |    _ \       \   | JHSEGALL @ Weizmann.weizmann.ac.il
    |___   |       /     |    _  \    |  \  | UNIX:
        |  |      /      |   /    \   |     |  JHSEGAL  @ Wiscon.weizmann.ac.il
From: aaldoubo@copper.denver.colorado.edu (Anisa Alnoor Aldoubosh)
Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast
Subject: Re: Answer to Mr John
Date: 7 Oct 92 07:11:46 GMT
Organization: University of Colorado at Denver

>I used to think Arafat was pretty nice looking until I saw him
>without his kuffiyah!  :-)  When I told my girlfriend that I
>thought he was handsome, she said, 'well, almost everything *evil*
>is attractive' ... :o               ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

I meant, about Saddam and not Yassir ... :^

Anisa

Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast