HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: electro@access.digex.com (Gary Ehrlich)
Subject: Re: Enders Trilogy by Orson Scott Card
Summary: piece in Analog, 1991
Organization: Express Access Online Communications, Greenbelt, MD USA
Date: Sun, 11 Oct 1992 21:06:09 GMT

In article <1992Oct5.020109.10830@tagsys.com> andrew@tagsys.com (Andrew Gideon) writes:
>In article <927@hobby.ukc.ac.uk> mb7@ukc.ac.uk (M.Bloom) writes:
>>I have just read the books Enders Game, Speaker for the dead and Xenocide, 
>>by Orson Scott Card. I found them quite good, but I'm curious as to whether
>>there is a 4th book after Xenocide? In the preface to Speaker for the Dead,
>>the author mentions that he split Xenocide into two books, due to it's
>>length. Did this happen?
>>

I recall that a piece of "Xenocide" involving the girl on Path and her
search for what happened to the fleet headed for Lusitania was published
as a novelette in Analog sometime in late 1990/early 1991 under the title
of "Shining Bright"  Don't know if that is accounting for anyone's confusion.




-- 
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
      ELECTRO  | Gary J. Ehrlich           | "Real filkers don't document;
     E         | Live from Columbia, MD    |  if it was hard to write it   
    ELECTRO    |                           |  should be hard to scan!"     
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
From: YANJUNA@YaleVM.YCC.Yale.Edu
Subject: Re: Forward the Foundation
Organization: Yale University
Date: Mon, 12 Oct 92 17:59:29 EDT

In article <1bc64hINN6sm@usenet.INS.CWRU.Edu>
ca572@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Mark L. Stackpole) writes:
 
>
>
>_Forward the Foundation_ is set for release April 1993. It is a
>set of five novellas, each covering a decade of Hari Sheldon's
>life between the events of _Prelude to Foundation_ and _Foundation_.
>The first two have been published in Asimov's SF under the titles
>"Forward the Foundation" and "Cleon the Emperor".
>At the time of Asimov's death, number three was complete, number
>four almost finished, and the fifth just a handwritten outline.
>I don't know if Bantam/Spectra will have a ghost complete the
>stories, or just publish the manuscripts as they are.
>My guess from reading the first two, is that Asimov was setting
>things up so that Hari Sheldon would decide that Psychohistory
>could never work, and that he would go ahead and set up the
>Foundations anyway on the premise the illusion that the next
>1000 years were already predicted by him would be just as effective
>in maintaining civilization as a working Psychohistory.
>Mark_Stackpole@oclc.org
 
    There was a very perceptive review by Orson Scott Card in F&SF
on the short story version of "Forward the Foundation" about how
Asimov was trying to undo his psychohistory in his latter books.
Considering his often repeated remarks that he does not believe in
psychohistory, and how he believes science cannot predict the vast
complexities of human societies, Card, and M. Stackpole may have a point.
   Asimov, in one of the last editorials before his death, wrote a
scathing attack on economics as a discipline, and since I feel that,
at current time, economics is the closest thing to psychohistory, (as
depressing as that is,)  the destruction of psychohistory may well have
been the motivating factor behind the last two or three Foundation/Robot
books.  (By the way, I'm sorry to say that most of the arguments used
by Asimov in his attack on economics, could be dismissed fairly easily
with an introductory economics textbook.  This, in no way, diminishes
my respect for the man.  I would much rather have had him writing stories,
or toward the end of his life, resting, than studying economics, but it is
a bit disappointing.)
 
                                       Junsok Yang (YANJUNA @YALEVM.ycc.)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written,rec.arts.sf.movies
From: xoanon@carina.unm.edu (timothy k istian soholt)
Subject: Re: SF Novels That Would Make Great Films
Date: Tue, 13 Oct 92 18:08:59 GMT
Organization: University of New Mexico, Albuquerque
Distribution: rec

donnell@manowar.micro.umn.edu (Your Heinous) writes:

>or how about a Robert Anton Wilson adaptation?

Illuminatus! : The Movie? :=)

-- Tim Soholt (xoanon@carina.unm.edu), The Man With No .sig
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
From: potter@csusac.ecs.csus.edu (Carl Kolchak)
Subject: Re: Heinlein reference in Sturgeons "The Golden Helix"
Followup-To: alt.dev.null
Summary: oblivity in evidence
Keywords: Leslyn, Virginia, Anson, Bob, Alf, and Campbell....
Organization: California State University, Sacramento
Distribution: usa
Date: Wed, 7 Oct 92 06:06:41 GMT

One of our more innocently clue-free posters declaimed, verily:

> From: rowe@soda.glorantha.berkeley.edu (Eric Rowe)
> Subject: Re: Heinlein reference in Sturgeons "The Golden Helix"
> Message-ID: <ROWE.92Oct6173451@soda.glorantha.berkeley.edu>
> Date: 7 Oct 92 00:34:51 GMT
> References: <1992Oct6.185405.3417@daimi.aau.dk>
> Organization: UCB Integrative Biology
> 
> Well, unless Anson MacDonald is a pseudonym of Heinleins this reference
> is incorrect. I have the story Goldfish Bowl in Groff Conklin's
> _The Golden Age of Science Fiction_.   It has _Goldfish Bowl_ by
> Anson MacDonald published in Astounding Science Fiction in 1942.
> I don't know where people are getting all these other references from.

  ....... mostly from knowledge of the field derived from having read 
collections more recent than those printed in the fifties.....
 
  Is Eric the only SF fan left on the planet who's unaware of the
fact that "Anson MacDonald" could legally sign checks with the name
"Robert Anson Heinlein" and not have them bounce? 
 
  (I've been told that particular pen name (he had several!)  was a 
composite of his own middle name and his first wife's surname; but I 
don't have a verification on that.)


-- 
=======================================================================
||  "C" gains much of its vaunted efficiency by employing a very     ||
||  powerful pre-processor, normally referred to as a "programmer."  ||
||  rem: "Ph-nglui mglw'nafh Cthulhu R'lyeh wgah'nagl fhtagn."       ||
From: takkyon@dartmouth.edu (Dr. Tachyon)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
Subject: _Lord of Light_
Date: 8 Oct 92 05:53:12 GMT
Organization: PsiLords of Takis Health Club and Massage Parlor
X-Useragent: Diamond Mask v2.7b5

The subject line describes the subject pretty well.  IMNSHO this is one
of Zelazny's best books; it's one of my favorite, if not my favorite,
period, books of all time.  Yet whenever I mention it to SF-loving
friends, I can't find anyone who's read it.  
	
Anyone have any comments on it?  (I think it's been out of print for a
while now.)  Definitely worth reading, if you can get your hands on it.


		-- dr. "tolkien is a pale shadow of john norman :)" t

--
"So, what *do* you do when someone tries to take your gun?"
"Shoot them."
	-- I forget who, on rec.martial-arts
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
From: hillyard@lynx.msc.cornell.edu.UUCP (Sean Edward Hillyard,F7 Clark,50649,)
Subject: Re: The Shadow Rising - Robert Jordan **SPOILERS**
Originator: hillyard@msc2.msc.cornell.edu
Organization: Cornell-Materials-Science-Center
Date: Fri, 9 Oct 1992 19:34:49 GMT

From article <1992Oct8.111930.4628@desire.wright.edu>, by cse0080@desire.wright.edu (John C. Hansen):
[...]
> 
> 

















> 2. What in tarnation happened to Mat inside the ter'angreal in Rhuidean?
> Who is the daughter of the nine moons?  What is that spear-sword?  How will
> Mat "give up half the light of the world to save the world?" 
> (Ah, I just noted that the Court of the Nine Moons is the Seanchan Empress'
> palace?)  This is interesting...

Apparently the ter'angreal does things rather than answer questions.  Of
the three he got, two are obvious; getting his memory back and getting
out of the device.  The third one is somewhat intriguing.  Although
I can't remember the exact wording, it is something like 'I want a way
to (avoid?, get rid of?) all Aes Sedai and the Power.'

So, off the wall prediction.  Rand defeats the Dark One, but has gone mad
and is destroying the world.  Mat somehow has it within his ability to 
destroy half the true source.  After doing this no one can channel anymore--
so he saves the world from Rand, destroys half the world's light, and avoids
Aes Sedai and the power.  QED.

SEH
From: jvessey@husc8.harvard.edu (Jonathan Vessey)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
Subject: Wild Cards?
Date: 11 Oct 92 05:42:57 GMT
Article-I.D.: husc3.1992Oct11.014258.16266
Organization: Harvard University Science Center

Is anyone out there a fan of the Wild Card series of books? I've read all of
them with the exception of part of Aces Abroad (I read books five and six first
so I sort of know what happens and haven't felt like going back over it). 
Needless to say, I was psyched to see that the newest book in the series is
out a bit before I was planning on it. Has anyone read it? What did you think?

Jon

-- 
						Jon Vessey
                                                jvessey@husc.harvard.edu
From: as232@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Michael Lerner)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
Subject: Vance
Date: 9 Oct 1992 18:21:13 GMT
Organization: Case Western Reserve University, Cleveland, Ohio (USA)
NNTP-Posting-Host: hela.ins.cwru.edu


I found a Jack Vance book called "Wyst: Alastor 1716" on my Dad's bookshelf.
It's a first time in print novel, (c) November 1978.  Is it worth my time
to try to sell  the book?  I'm guessing it may be worth something since most
of Vance's stuff is hard to come by, and it's first ed.  Also, it looks like
an interesting plot, I think I'll read it! ;)

Mike
-- 
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
From: djdaneh@pbhyc.PacBell.COM (Dan'l DanehyOakes)
Subject: Re: In defense of Vonnegut (was Re: "VENUS ON THE HALF SHELL")
Reply-To: djdaneh@PacBell.COM (Dan'l DanehyOakes)
Organization: Pacific * Bell, San Ramon, CA
Distribution: usa
Date: Wed, 14 Oct 1992 21:23:44 GMT

In article <7245@transfer.stratus.com> jmann@vineland.pubs.stratus.com writes:

>I think he was talking about their works. He's wrong there,
>too, of course. Vonnegut's works are almost all in print.

What's out of print?

CANARY IN A CATHOUSE is, but all the stories from it are included in
	WELCOME TO THE MONKEY HOUSE.

The only books I haven't seen on the shelves lately are HAPPY BIRTHDAY, WANDA 
JUNE and BETWEEN TIME AND TIMBUKTU, and that doesn't prove much because neither 
of them ever had decent distribution (and BT&T isn't exactly "by" Vonnegut; it's
a teleplay munged together from his "ideas and concepts" for an entertaining PBS
special in the early '70s -- does anyone know if this has ever been released on
videotape?).

Dan'l
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written,rec.arts.books
From: charless@sco.COM (AutoPope)
Subject: Re: Ian McDonald's _The Broken Land_: review
Organization: The Somewhat Contagious Operation, Inc.
Date: Thu, 01 Oct 1992 08:16:00 GMT


In article <1992Sep28.215640.261@math.ucla.edu> dstein@rhea.math.ucla.edu (David Stein) writes:
>   Does asserting that something makes no sense mean that
>   one does not understand it?
>
>   In any case, I would be delighted if you tried to explain
>   why did the author throw in all the disparate elements
>   (Freud, sex, Judas-like Wandering Jew character, Ann Frank
>   type story, Holocaust, mice, and so on and so on) without
>   having hardly any story to tell?  What was the point of it?
>
> - David
>
Why do so many sf readers have a hang-up about `story'? Ian's work
is definitively _not_ about `story' -- it's about `experience'.
There is more to fiction than who does what and why, dammit. If
there wasn't, we'd all be reading newspapers instead. Before you
can understand The Broken Lands (published in the UK as Hearts,
Hands and Voices) you need to surrender to it. Like life itself,
it's plotless but full of feeling. Do you insist on hanging
an artificial teleological construct on top of your sensory
input in real life? If not, why do you feel the need for an 
explanation when you're reading a work of fiction?


-- 
Charlie Stross aka charless@scol.sco.com ..... UNIX oriented text mangler
WARNING: The opinions voiced in the preceding electronic document are the
product of a warped mind. Take two before meals.
From: curtis@cs.berkeley.edu (Curtis Yarvin)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
Subject: Re: Elizabeth Hand
Date: 8 Oct 1992 19:51:18 GMT
Organization: CS Dept. Snakepit - Do Not Feed.
NNTP-Posting-Host: adder.cs.berkeley.edu

In article <1992Oct07.213409.28559@microsoft.com> matth@microsoft.com (Matthew Hillman) writes:
>
>I just read _Aestival Tide_, and thought it was fantastic.  I liked 
>_Winterlong_ as well, though I found it harder going; the story sometimes
>got bogged down in the incredibly rich language and imagery.  I thought
>_Aestival Tide_ was more balanced, with both a compelling plot and beautiful
>writing and imagery.

Hmm.  I preferred _Winterlong_; the plot, characters, and setting
seemed more tightly controlled and better-drawn.  But both books are
truly excellent, and I would not hesitate to recommend them to anyone.

A warning, though.  To someone who's read mostly genre sf, Hand's
style may at first seem confusing.  She doesn't set aside a few pages
of introduction or contrived dialogue at the beginning, to describe
her universe (which is quite a complex one).  Instead she lets the
exposition come out in the wash, gradually exude from the fabric of
the story, so that by the end you have a reasonable idea of what's
going on.  

This is the tactic of many "literary" sf writers, perhaps not as much
because it's better than because it's much harder to do.  I rather
like the effect, but it takes some getting used to.

>The only book I've read that was similar to Hand's was _Views from the
>Oldest House_ by Richard Grant, also very good.

Yup.  Recommendation seconded, with much enthusiasm.

>I haven't read anything else by Grant (yet).

Grant's 'Rumors of Spring' approaches the level of 'Views'.  'Saraband
Of Lost Time' and 'Through The Heart' are not quite as good, but still
well worth a read.  I believe 'Saraband' (Avon) is out of print, and
may be hard to find.

>I believe he and Elizabeth Hand are a couple.

Yup.

Hand focuses more on imagery and symbolism; Grant has a finer stylistic
touch and a delicate wit.  But they're both damn good.

If you like that sort of thing, you might give Geoff Ryman, Paul Park,
or Ian McDonald a shot.

c
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
Subject: Re: CJ Cherryh
From: ecmtwhk@ccu1.aukuni.ac.nz (Thomas Koenig)
Date: Sun, 11 Oct 1992 04:00:47 GMT
Organization: University of Auckland, New Zealand.

eschneid@sparc53.tamu.edu (Erich R Schneider) writes:

>(Side note: the acronyms really fly fast and furious in _Hellburner_;
>if you can't quickly figure out what AA, VR, UDC, UN, EC, FSO, JLC and
>TI signify, you're goin to be pretty confused. I still haven't figured
>out what ECSAA means (from _Heavy Time_).)

Hmm, a few are quite easy: EC is the European Community (find it in
every newspaper), AA is the Automobile Association, JLC is probably a
misspelling of IBM's infamous JCL (Job Control Language), and TI is
Texas Instruments :-)
-- 
Thomas Koenig, ecmtwhk@ccu1.aukuni.ac.nz, ib09@rz.uni-karlsruhe.de
The joy of engineering is to find a straight line on a double logarithmic
diagram.
Xref: sparky rec.arts.sf.written:13750 rec.arts.sf.movies:7891
From: plutchak@pilsner.geo.brown.edu (Joel Plutchak)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written,rec.arts.sf.movies
Subject: Re: SF Novels That Would Make Great Films
Date: 14 Oct 1992 20:25:03 GMT
Organization: Brown University Planetary Geology
NNTP-Posting-Host: pilsner.geo.brown.edu

In article <asnpy4b@lynx.unm.edu> xoanon@carina.unm.edu (timothy k istian soholt) writes:
>donnell@manowar.micro.umn.edu (Your Heinous) writes:
>
>>or how about a Robert Anton Wilson adaptation?
>
>Illuminatus! : The Movie? :=)

   Did I read somewhere years ago that the trilogy was once done as
a day-long play, or did I dream it?
--
Joel Plutchak, Research Programmer/Analyst
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
From: beede@sctc.com (Mike Beede)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
Subject: Re: Heinlein reference in Sturgeons "The Golden Helix"
Date: 8 Oct 92 12:11:23 GMT
Organization: SCTC

mwnorman@bcarh929bnr.ca (Michael Norman) writes:

>Sorry, Eric.  Anson MacDonald WAS one of R.A.H.'s pseudonums!!  He
>at one time had TWO top stories in Astounding, one under each name!
>However, the editorial staff found out and asked him not to do this
>anymore as they did not consider it fair to other writers - Heinlein 
>didn't give a damn, he wrote to make money!

A nice story, but apparently incorrect.  In ``Grumbles from the
Grave,'' (which collects a bunch of Heinlein's correspondence) it is
clear that editors knew who all of his pseudonyms were, since they
sometimes had the option of buying the same story under his real name
at one price one or under another at a cut rate.  It sounds like there
was more than _one_ issue that had two RAHs in it, too, but I'm not
sure on that.

	Mike

P.S., Also, ``editorial staff'' is a little grand for a single editor,
isn't it?

-- 
Mike Beede         Secure Computing
beede@sctc.com     1210 W. County Rd E, Suite 100           
------------------ Arden Hills, MN  55112
                    (612) 482-7420
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
From: jasonr@syma.sussex.ac.uk (Jason F Ralph)
Subject: Re: julian may and Fury (*spoilers*)
Organization: University of Sussex
X-Newsreader: Tin 1.1 PL4
Date: Wed, 14 Oct 1992 14:03:55 GMT

I have to admit that I to missed thw discussions about the identity of
Fury when JtB came out, and that I hadn't even considered Felice as a
candidate for Fury (partly because it has been a good five years since I
last read the Saga of the Exiles). Though the name 'Fury' is quite
reminiscent of Felice at her best, she was by nature a destructive
personality and I doubt whether her mental state would have enabled her
to prolong her life sufficiently to reach back to post intervention
times. Assuming, of course, that she did not possess the 'immortality'
gene of the Remillards...which is by no means guaranteed.

Felice is quite an interesting plotline and I think if it can be
justified properly it could be a very good tie-in. My money would still
be on Paul though, for most of the reasons given before, he was
consistently present at all the events where Fury made an appearence AND
he had a close relationship with all the children making up Hydra... one
which was not present with Marc or Jack.

This problem is unlikely to be sorted out when Diamond Mask finally
makes its appearence but we may get some more clues. Hopefully it won't
take too much longer to appear because I for one have been waiting for
about eight years to read the WHOLE story!

jasonr@sussex.central.ac.uk


Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
From: rob@hoster.eng.ohio-state.edu (Rob Carriere)
Subject: Re: BOOK SEARCH - NEED HELP
Organization: The Ohio State University Dept of Electrical Engineering
Date: Wed, 7 Oct 1992 05:22:38 GMT

In article <BvpHv4.Hwv@watdragon.uwaterloo.ca> jdnicoll@watyew.uwaterloo.ca
(James Davis Nicoll) writes: 
>	You may want to hunt down a  copy of a boardgame called 'Starfire'.
>One or the other of Weber or White  helped playtest it, and their books appear
>to  be set in  the  same universe.
>
>	I *think*  it is out of print, alas.

Task Force Games (the publisher of Starfire) claims they will re-publish
``Real Soon Now'' (TM).

SR
---



Xref: sparky rec.arts.sf.written:13820 rec.arts.sf.movies:7941
From: uhschreg@cip.informatik.uni-erlangen.de (Ulrich Schreglmann)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written,rec.arts.sf.movies
Subject: Re: SF Novels That Would Make Great Films
Date: 16 Oct 92 15:48:32 GMT
Article-I.D.: immd4.Bw818x.Mo1
Distribution: rec
Organization: Student Pool, CSD, University of Erlangen, Germany

jseaver@bigwpi.WPI.EDU (Jason John Seaver) writes:

>In article <Bw5zJs.AJu@cck.coventry.ac.uk> jat@cch.coventry.ac.uk (STBW) writes:
>>I'd still like to see a totally book following films of the following
>>Great SF Books ;
>>		Dune, the other bits   - Frank Herbert
>	I don't think so.  These books are just too dense to be done well as
>movies.
>>		HHGTTG, all 5 books    - Douglas Adams
>	Opposite problem.  All the Hitchhiker's books, with the possible
>exception of Mostly Harmless, are too scattered to be done really well as
>films without major restructuring; the jumping out of the story and into the
>Guide would really have to go; to be a satisfying movie the characters would
>have to figure out their problems without jumping to the Guide.

Well, I don't know! You might have to leave something out and restruc-
ture a lot -- as was already done for getting the radio-series into book
form -- but basically it should be possible to get one book into a two-
hour movie. With all the "Guide" bits. It was done very well in the TV-
version.
A little more emotional acting and soundtrack, better computer graphics
and other F/X than on TV, Cinemascope -- I guess that'd become real
cool.

You could make enough out of the action scenes to make the movie worth-
while even for people who don't get the documentary ("Guide") plot.
Just think about the nuclear missile attack or the funny things while in
improbability drive. (Imagine the Heart of Gold bending and stretching
like a cartoon figure. Imagine a Frogstar Scout Robot crashing through
fifty floors of a building. Imagine...)
Of course you'd have to make all the close shaves even closer, but who
says you can't?


May the Cool Frood Be with You!

(C)OOL mcmxcii
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
From: craig@ariel.earth.nwu.edu (Craig R. Bina)
Subject: Re: The Shadow Rising (no spoilers)
Organization: Geological Sciences Department, Northwestern University
Date: Tue, 13 Oct 1992 05:23:30 GMT

In article <1992Oct13.023334.13946@netcom.com> dani@netcom.com (Dani Zweig) writes:
	. . . many interesting comments deleted . . .
>
>Oh, right, some nitpicking -- mostly on matters of craftsmanship.
>
>1. A sprinkling of the names used have a heavy freight of association
>   from our own culture, and I think it was a mistake on Jordan's part
>   to use them here.  The most blatant examples are Artur Paendrag, 
>   Shai'tan, Sammael, Shayol Ghul.  It could be argued that this is
>   the author's way of showing the persistence of the greatest legends
>   or influences from one age, or even turn of the wheel, to the next,
>   but to me it came across as a distracting lack of originality.
>
	. . . many more interesting comments deleted . . .


Yes, I noted this in an earlier posting in which I whined about the
appearance of Arthurian elements in both Jordan's and Kay's work.
In addition to Artur Paendrag, we have Egwene, Galad, Gawyn, the
Sword in the Stone of Tear, etc.  Several people responded that a
classic story is always reworked, citing Tennyson's treatment of
the Arthurian mythos as an example.  While it is true that such as
Tennyson, Malory, LeTroyes, and White give fine individual renditions
of Arthurian legends, this is their explicit intention.  Jordan's
work does not profess to be a retelling of Arthurian legend but rather
a work of creative fantasy in an original world designed by the author.
In this context, I fully agree that these references to a coherent
body of myths from another time and place are annoyingly distracting.
Certainly many of the themes running through the great myth cycles
are worthy of reworking, but why mimic such details as the names?
       Craig.....
-- 
_______
Craig R. Bina, Asst. Prof.
Dept. of Geological Sci., Northwestern Univ.
Evanston, Illinois, craig@earth.nwu.edu
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
From: mycroft@dorsai.com (Keith Kushner)
Subject: Re: ubiquitous Arthurian mythos
Organization: The Dorsai Embassy +1.718.729.5018
X-Newsreader: Tin 1.1 PL4
Date: Wed, 7 Oct 1992 19:26:38 GMT

mcconnel@Nimitz.mcs.kent.edu (Mike McConnell) writes:
: Who was it who said, and I'm afraid I must paraphrase:
: 	There's nothing new under the sun, so if we must copy, we may as 
: 	well copy the best.
: ?
: 
I'm not sure; each time I see a variant it's attributed to someone else...





Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written