From: gil@Gilsys.DIALix.oz.au (Gil Hardwick)
Newsgroups: alt.pagan
Subject: How the hell can religion and action not be related?
Distribution: world
Date: Thu, 05 Nov 92 09:49:44 GMT
Organization: STAFF STRATEGIES - Anthropologists & Training Agents


In article <1992Nov5.021836.17857@trl.oz.au> banerjee@titan.trl.OZ.AU writes:

 >  Are you implying that all modern pagans are descended from persected
 > European pre-Christian pagans? Do they maintain geneological trees to
 > sustain this claim?

I have neither stated nor implied any such thing. I have merely
replied appropriately to your unfounded and quite preposterous
statement about people who post to group, having once taken up
Christianity as an excuse to dominate the world, are now taking the
opportunity to abandon it. In seeking some balance to the debate I
stated merely that you have misattributed Christianity to Westerners
as such, since you chose to ignore the paganism of Western Europe as
you accused us of ignoring the paganism of the Hindu tradition.

The historical record of persecution against pagans by Christians is
substantial indeed, especially in the Christian archives. Yes, many
families indeed maintain family trees, as I invite you to consult your
most conventient consultant geneologist.

 > Is not freedom of religion and expression a fundamental right in most
 > Christian societies? Supported by law? Where does then violence spring from?

No, such freedoms of religion and expression are not and never have
been fundamental rights in Christian societies. Such "rights" only came
about through bitter and bloody civil war by the populace against the
established church, in particular bringing about the formation of the
modern secular state. Laws protecting such freedoms were put in place
through parliamentary legislation; please do read even a little history.

Where does violence spring from? I have no idea; you might perhaps ask
some of the fundamentalists how their hatred arises.

 > And why should my right to post on this network be regarded as some kind
 > of oppertunism? 

Nobody has disputed your right to post to this group; again I merely
responded to your accusation of opportunism against others posting
here. Why should our posting to the network be regarded as "some kind
of opportunism" different from yours?

 > I am very symathetic to pagans, believe me. I just want them to last!
 > And I do not think that they will last if they can only define
 > themselves on the negative theme of anti-Christianity. In my opinion
 > they need more solid grounds for mutual understanding and acceptance.
 > They do not seem to be doing that very well. 

Agreed wholeheartedly. If you would like to trace my own history of
posting to this group you will find the same sentiments expressed.

 > I do not care at all whether I am given any attention or not.

Your choice.

 > Perhaps I was under a mistaken impression. I thought that paganism
 > included Hinduism, and I wondered why as I earlier wrote no mention was
 > made in this newsgroup about Hinduism. Since then, I consulted the
 > Britannca and I now find that this is a definition for pre-Christian
 > European belief systems. Sorry, wrong group .... so bye!

Regardless of what the Britannica reports, the definition of paganism
does not by any stretch of the imagination exclude Hinduism. Perhaps
others here are simply unfamiliar with Hinduism, and await your own
expertise.

 > Well score another point against the Christians who have described us as
 > idol-worshipping pagans..... they actually caused this confusion for
 > me. 

Hm, yes. Sneaky devils.

 > But definitely I will keep reading this newsgroup, as I have got a lot
 > of interest in the kind of postings I find here ... the ones by
 > Eshin-Fun on the evolution of religion was most revealing to me.

Good.

 > > I would regret that, since regardless of what attitudes the Americans
 > > may or may not have India is extremely important to us here in Western
 > > Australia.
 >  
 > WHY ??!

Why not? India is right here on our doorstep, isn't it? I doubt it
will go away, and if for no other reason we need to know what store it
may hold for our future.

--
Gil Hardwick                                      gil@Gilsys.DIALix.oz.au
Independent Consulting Ethnologist                            3:690/660.6
PERTH, Western Australia                                 (+61 9) 399 2401
   * * Sustainable Community Development & Environmental Education * *