HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: msb@sq.sq.com (Mark Brader)
Subject: Re: A bird in the hand v. 10 birds in the FAQ
Organization: SoftQuad Inc., Toronto, Canada
Date: Wed, 9 Sep 92 07:30:33 GMT

> Talking about the thread leading to this entry one of my friends told
> me the following "fact":
> 
> 	Birds count "one", "two" and "many".
> 
> Thus, if there are many (ie. more than two) and you add some more, or take
> a few - leaving more than two eggs in the nest - the bird will not notice.

James R. Newman's superb anthology "The World of Mathematics" (1956,
4 volumes, Simon & Schuster) contains two articles addressing this
question.  Both are in volume 1: "Counting" by Levi Leonard Conant,
written 50 years earlier; and "The Ability of Birds to 'Count'" by Otto
Koehler, translated by W. Thorpe, from Bulletin of Animal Behavior, #9,
no date mentioned.

To put it briefly, it seems that birds and other animals do have the
ability to recognize specific small numbers, but the highest number that
they can recognize varies by species.  Conant's article reports exactly
the above experience with eggs: from nests containing four eggs, if he
withdrew one, the bird did not notice, but if he took two, it deserted.
At this point he does not mention any particular species.  He notes that
some wasps deliver exact numbers of victim insects to their young, the
numbers being as large as 24 in some species.

Koehler cites pigeons as being able to identify numbers as high as five
or six; jackdaws, six; and ravens and parrots, seven.  He notes: "*Our
birds did not count*, for they lack words.  They could not name the
numbers that they are able to perceive and to act upon, but in actual
fact they learn to '*think unnamed numbers*.'"  (His emphasis.)

He notes that if humans are presented with groups of images too briefly
to count, we too can identify numbers only up to about five or eight.

He tells an interesting story of an experiment with a jackdaw which had
been trained to open boxes until it had found and eaten exactly 5 baits.
It found 1, 2, and 1 baits in the first three boxes, and then left.

|  The experimenter was just about to record "one too few, incorrect
|  solution", when the jackdaw came back to the line of boxes.  Then
|  the bird went through a most remarkable performance: it bowed its
|  head once before the first box it had emptied, made two bows in
|  front of the second, one before the third, then went further along
|  the line, opened the fourth box (no bait) and the fifth, and took
|  out the last (fifth) bait.  Having done this it left the rest of the
|  line of boxes untouched and went home [to its cage] with an air of
|  finality.
-- 
Mark Brader		"There is a pervasive illusion in certain quarters
SoftQuad Inc., Toronto	  that Mother Nature is our friend.  Wrong; dead wrong.
utzoo!sq!msb, msb@sq.com   ... [A]nd she loves surprises."    -- Henry Spencer

This article is in the public domain.
Newsgroups: alt.folklore.urban
From: MJFORRES@SUVM.SYR.EDU (maurice)
Subject: Re: Sinking libraries
Organization: Syracuse University
Date: Thu, 10 Sep 92 14:16:39 EDT

In article <1992Sep9.203802.17920@sunova.ssc.gov>
Chuck Adams <chuck_adams@qmail.ssc.gov> writes:
 
>In article <1992Sep9.142802.27577@geovision.gvc.com> pt@geovision.gvc.com (Paul
>Tomblin) writes:
>
>>Sorry, I thought this group was for people interested in the _facts_ behind
>>ULs, not for the perpetuation of them.  If nobody wants any facts, then I
>>guess I'll go find another newsgroup.
>
>I hereby nominate this for afu "Quote of the Month".  Do I hear any seconds?
 
It's too long; the quote of the month should be:
 
>>If nobody wants any facts, then I guess I'll go find another newsgroup.
 
maurice
                                                 Maurice Forrester
                                                 mjforres@suvm.syr.edu
Newsgroups: alt.folklore.urban
From: shafer@rigel.dfrf.nasa.gov (Mary Shafer)
Subject: Re: Price gouging in Florida and Guam
Organization: NASA Dryden, Edwards, Cal.
	<1992Aug31.204250.17051@midway.uchicago.edu>
	<csmith-010992123048@cyrano.gmu.edu> <1992Sep8.152955.28480@chpc.org>
	<1992Sep9.193554.1556@acuson.com>
Date: Thu, 10 Sep 1992 18:30:28 GMT

On a related note, I've been to at least one airport that had a sign
in the gift shop pointing out that the prices of items viewed as
necessities were indexed to the prices in town.  That is, the 79-cent
tin of aspirin couldn't cost 3.50 the way it does at most airports.

I think that this was Miami International, which, if true, would
indicate that Florida (or parts thereof) have demonstrated a
resistance to profiteering far in advance of Andrew.  (I say this
because I remember this in connection with the launch of STS-41C
which was _years_ ago.  My most recent visit to the airport was in
1990.)

--
Mary Shafer  DoD #0362 KotFR NASA Dryden Flight Research Facility, Edwards, CA
shafer@rigel.dfrf.nasa.gov                    Of course I don't speak for NASA
 "There's no kill like a guns kill." LCDR "Hoser" Satrapa, gunnery instructor
                       "A kill is a kill."  Anonymous
From: mcirvin@husc8.harvard.edu (Mcirvin)
Newsgroups: alt.folklore.urban
Subject: Re: Sex on the Train
Date: 4 Sep 92 21:06:10 GMT

wilcox@vax.oxford.ac.uk writes:

>Is this life imitating humour, or is this a gullible newspaper editor being
>taken in by a practical joke? Has this been reported anywhere outside these
>supposedly staid islands?

It made newspapers in the US, but that means little.
-- 
Matt McIrvin, Cambridge, Massachusetts, USA 
Newsgroups: alt.folklore.urban
From: bill.dehaan@rose.com (bill dehaan)
Subject: Highest Channel
Organization: Rose Media Inc, Toronto, Ontario.
Date: Wed, 9 Sep 1992 03:58:06 GMT
X-Gated-By: Usenet <==> RoseMail Gateway (v1.70)


Date Entered: 09-08-92 22:54
In message <1992Sep7.195427.29120@nmsu.edu>, dtasman@dante.nmsu.edu (Dan
Tasman) writes:

DT>ObUL ... The Buffalo suburb of North Tonawanda is continually ablaze.

Not a UL. I see the proof daily on the news.

Bill "well how ELSE do you validate it's CONTINUAL?" de Haan

----------------------------------+-----------------------------------------
Deus Ex Machina                   | Internet:   bill.dehaan@rose.com
Software Consulting and Gator Pit | Eradicate Hunger - Eat the homeless
----------------------------------+-----------------------------------------
---
   SLMR 2.1a   Salvador Dali for Coca Cola: It's surreal thing.
   RM 2.00 : RoseNet<=>Usenet Gateway : Rose Media 416-733-2285
Newsgroups: alt.folklore.urban
From: danoc@earlybird.Eng.Sun.COM (Dan O'Connell [CONTRACTOR])
Newsgroups: alt.folklore.urban
Subject: Re: Third to Be Bombed
Date: 11 Sep 92 00:26:00 GMT
Distribution: na
Organization: Subvert the Dominant Paradigm, Inc.
NNTP-Posting-Host: earlybird

(Rich Greenberg) writes:

 I am really amused by everybody who thinks they will be third.
 Growing up in the shadow of the Big Apple (==New York City),
 we all expected to be second, right after Washington DC.
 
 Anybody who lives/lived in DC care to comment?

I believe you are essentially correct. I used to work for
well, let's just say a government agency -- and even if
I didn't it is common knowledge where "Ground Zero" is
(The White House).

You can forget about Washington State, or upstate New York
and Ohio or anywhere in the midwest is laughable. Think
big port cities with every branch of the armed services:
think of someplace like Norfolk, Viginia or San Diego, CA.

Research centers in upstate-anywhere are not high on the
"list". Primary targets depend entirely on the scenario:
the scenario depends on what the instigating events are,
this means that in one situation civilian population centers
could be primary targets, in another scenario, populous
areas are to be avoided completely.

In any event, it seems there is little chance we'll ever
find out <knock-on-wood>.

Dano
Newsgroups: alt.folklore.urban
From: styri@hal.nta.no (YuNoHoo)
Subject: Re: Notorious Toothpaste Skit
Reply-To: styri@nta.no
Organization: Bohemians and Globetrotters, Unlimited
Date: Fri, 11 Sep 92 08:17:02 GMT


[description of skit deleted]

Why on earth the followup-to field is a.f.u beats me, but I'm sure this
will know about the a.f.u flame-form pretty soon.

The skit, however, is one of many performed during YMCA-camps in Norway.
There's no magic, no bucks, no threats - just another sickening teenage
skit. Thank you for reminding me, I'll be the host for a group of Polish
YMCA people in two weeks time. (I believe they're "north poles" btw. :-)

Guess I'll have a field day trying to find some new ULs from eastern europe.
However, the stories I've heard so far aren't very exciting. It's been a
poor mix of stories about the "west" where the streets apperently are paved
with gold, spiced up with poor knowledge of english/german/french/spanish.

---
YuNoHoo  "guess what's in that glass tastes like chicken to the last person"
Newsgroups: alt.folklore.urban
From: don@nd.edu (Don Steinke)
Subject: Re: bird in the hand
Keywords: chickens counting
Organization: Registrar, University of Notre Dame
Date: Fri, 11 Sep 1992 20:43:23 GMT


>Yu>Talking about the thread leading to this entry one of my friends told
>Yu>me the following "fact":

>Yu>        Birds count "one", "two" and "many".

>Yu>Thus, if there are many (ie. more than two) and you add some more, or take
>Yu>a few - leaving more than two eggs in the nest - the bird will not notice.

>I don't  know much  about birds,  but I  know it  works with cats. Had a
>friend once who  bred the things.  Mommy cat had  something like six  or
>seven of the beasts, and after they were weaned, they were sold, one  at
>a time. Mommy didn't notice numbers one, two or three disappearing, sort
>of noticed number four going, caught on to number five, and when  number
>six disappeared, she followed the seventh one like a shadow to see where
>they were all going. I saw  this pattern repeated on a litter  by litter
>basis.

>Bill "can't even count my OWN brothers and sisters" de Haan


I seem to remember an experiment where a scientist found that chickens could
count to seven. I believe it involved gluing down an increasing number of 
seeds and training it to only peck at every seventh one.


Don "Chickenman" Steinke
Univerity of Notre Dame
don.g.steinke.1@nd.edu
From: bls@sector7g.Eng.Sun.COM (Brian Scearce)
Newsgroups: alt.folklore.urban
Subject: Re: Speeding in Iowa
Date: 11 Sep 92 21:26:49 GMT
Reply-To: bls@sector7g.Eng.Sun.COM
Organization: Sun Microsystems
NNTP-Posting-Host: sector7g

In article GGu@mentor.cc.purdue.edu, creeper@mentor.cc.purdue.edu (Wolfgang Kies) writes:
> [interesting story of late-night matte black Lotus with driver wearing
> light-intensification goggles trying to break trans-Iowa land speed
> record]

Although I can understand the desire of the driver to get out of Iowa
as quickly as possible, the fact that he encountered two deaf Iowa
state troopers makes me wonder about the story's veracity.

Good story, though.  First I've seen of it.

---
Brian Scearce                               bls@sector7g.eng.sun.com
        The above does not necessarily represent Sun policy.
          It's easier to get forgiveness than permission.
From: mcirvin@husc8.harvard.edu (Mcirvin)
Newsgroups: alt.folklore.urban
Subject: Re: A bird in the hand v. 10 birds in the FAQ
Date: 9 Sep 92 00:57:06 GMT
 .edu><CINDY.92Sep8203525@solan10.solan.unit.no> <92252.162344ENVIRON@SLACVM.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU>

ENVIRON@SLACVM.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU writes:

>In article <CINDY.92Sep8203525@solan10.solan.unit.no>,
>cindy@solan10.solan.unit.no (Cynthia Kandolf) says:
>>[someone says, about zoo officials in 1906:]
>>>They believed the Congolese man, named
>>>Ota Benga, to be closer on the evolutionary scale to monkeys than
>>>to humans. 

>>"Closer on the evolutionary scale to monkeys than humans"?  Monkeys
>>are not simply "less evolved" humans [...]

>     Well, you have to remember that in 1906 science of the day probably
>wasn't advanced enough to determine that monkeys are our cousins rather than
>our forefathers... Whether or not I believe the story is true, I would
>be inclined to believe that at least that part is possible.

See Stephen Jay Gould's "The Mismeasure of Man" for more examples of
this.  Throughout the 19th and into the 20th century it not unheard 
of for white biologists to compare nonwhites to assorted nonhuman
primates and to speak of them as therefore "less evolved."  Gould
chronicles the repeated and contradictory efforts to associate apelike
traits with blacks and Asians, reflecting weirdly selective views
of what is "apelike."  The agendas of the researchers seem pitifully
evident today, but at the time it was more or less mainstream
science.
 
         Matt "hairy and large-eared" McIrvin

-- 
Matt McIrvin, Cambridge, Massachusetts, USA 
Newsgroups: alt.folklore.urban
From: dw@unislc.uucp (Dan Wright)
Subject: Re: Notorious Toothpaste Skit
X-Newsreader: Tin 1.1 PL5
Organization: Unisys Corporation SLC
Date: Fri, 11 Sep 1992 15:43:00 GMT

YuNoHoo (No, damn-it-all, we don't "no hoo") wrote:
: 
: [description of skit deleted]
: 
: Why on earth the followup-to field is a.f.u beats me, but I'm sure this
: will know about the a.f.u flame-form pretty soon.

(quote):
The group has broadened out from a place for discussing urban legends
(ULs) to a place for confirming or disproving beliefs and facts of all
kinds, including origin of vernacular ("The whole nine yards", "Bob's
your uncle", "Sniping like a bald giraffe"), common scientific fallacies,
obscure points of history, stories of pranks, the best way to shave,
and so on.  In other words, it's a great place to get a reality check 
on anything that "a friend" told you, or to compare notes about odd things.

As a result, you will find items which are in the classic urban legend
mold (e.g., food contamination legends), as well as old wives tales, and
other oddball facts, trivia, and stories.
(unquote)

  -- Dan Wright
Newsgroups: alt.folklore.urban
Subject: Re: Bridges
From: derek@nezsdc.icl.co.nz (Derek Tearne)
Date: Tue, 15 Sep 92 05:22:19 GMT
Organization: Fujitsu New Zealand

In article <1992Sep12.014600.10806@geovision.gvc.com> pt@geovision.gvc.com writes:
>pt@geovision.gvc.com (Paul Tomblin) writes:
>
>>Paul "Iron Ring" Tomblin
>
>I know it's bad form to followup to your own postings, but I just realized I
>made about my 3rd reference to my Iron Ring, without defining my terms for
>people who aren't lucky enough to have graduated in Engineering in Canada.

[explaination of Iron ring deleted]

And all the time I thought it was a talisman from a D & D game which
rendered the wearer fire proof...

Derek "Tigers eye ring on left paw" Tearne 


-- 
Derek Tearne. -- derek@nezsdc.icl.co.nz --  Fujitsu/ICL New Zealand -- 
Some of the more aware dinosaurs were worried about the environmental
consequences of an accident with the new Iridium enriched fusion reactor.  
"If it goes off only the cockroaches and mammals will survive..." they said.
Newsgroups: alt.folklore.urban
From: hal@HQ.Ileaf.COM (Hal Wadleigh)
Subject: Re: North Pole (was: The Flat Earth Society???)
Reply-To: hal@HQ.Ileaf.COM (Hal Wadleigh)
Organization: Interleaf, Inc.
Date: Wed, 9 Sep 92 16:24:47 GMT

Both poles are on GMT, being on the meridian (and every other line of
longitude).
From: scm@harvee.billerica.ma.us (S. Mudgett aka little gator)
Newsgroups: alt.folklore.urban
Subject: Re: Mailing Coconuts
Date: 12 Sep 92 16:03:36 GMT
Reply-To: scm@harvee.billerica.ma.us
Organization: gators 'r us
X-Software: HERMES GUS 1.03 Rev. Apr 14 1992

>: >>T. You can send a coconut thru the mail without any further wrapping.
i'd rather send it by african swallow.

little "i can't believe no one else said that already" gator
-- 
-- little gator aka s. mudgett     email: scm@harvee.billerica.ma.us
-- friend of a gator is a friend of mine
From: lasner@watsun.cc.columbia.edu (Charles Lasner)
Newsgroups: alt.folklore.urban
Subject: Re: What makes an urban legend work?
Date: 7 Sep 92 15:26:15 GMT
Reply-To: lasner@watsun.cc.columbia.edu (Charles Lasner)
Organization: Columbia University

In article <1992Sep4.175649.14099@news.media.mit.edu> tsmaster@media.mit.edu (David LeCompte) writes:
>
>Isn't the symbol for death the cross? I remember a series of five
>symbols on a cover of a GAMES magazine (male, female, life, death,
>infinity) from some movie or TV show that had a "Dr." in the title.
>Skull and crossbones means piracy or poison, to my knowledge.

Ben Casey version: Man Woman Birth Death Infinity

MAD version:       Man Woman Birth Death Infinity NABISCO

Vince Edwards as Dr. Ben Casey.  Sam Jaffe (who played Gunga Din and also the
scientist in The Day The Earth Stood Still) as Dr. Zorba.  Later editions
replace Zorba with another doctor played by Franchot Tone.  Some of the shows
have episodic bits that span several shows ala LA Law.  The show always
starts with Dr. Zorba reciting the cryptic sequence, emphasizing the infinity
symbol at the end.

obfact: Although their hair styles have been similar, Sam Jaffe is not a close
relative of Art Garfunkel, nor is he related to the robot Gort in any way.

obsongfact: in the time of Ben Casey was also popular Dr. Kildare with Richard
Chamberlain and Raymond Massey (as Dr. Gillespie).  Allan Sherman (best known
as the writer of "Hello Muddah, hello Faddah, here I am at, Camp Grenada", etc.
and several comedy records) wrote a song (to the tune of "What kind of fool am
I") about the meeting of Dr. Kildare and Ben Casey which would be a 
"pair-a-docs".  (Note that Dr. Kildare was always "Dr. Kildare" yet "Dr. Casey"
was always known as "Ben Casey".)
cjl
From: slb3y@cc.usu.edu (Punk Rocketeer)
Newsgroups: alt.folklore.urban
Subject: Re: The final solution - Seagulls
Date: 15 Sep 92 01:02:50 MDT
Organization: Omega:  The Final Solution

In article <1992Sep14.235636.735@endicor.com>, tsarna@endicor.com (Ty
Sarna) writes:
> Seen recently in alt.tasteless, the Alkaseltzer/Seagull UL with
> a few new features:
> 
> In <9209141855.AA08353@GROUCHO.CS.NYU.EDU>
deragon@GROUCHO.CS.NYU.EDU (John Paul Deragon) writes:
>> 	Anyway... needless to say there are no more seagulls around his
>> house.  (This also works with any animals that cant burp. ie: cats)
> 
> As an extra plus, we find out that there are other animals which can't
> burp. I would be interested in finding out just how this determination
> was made. Doubtless it was some multi-trillion-dollar government-backed
> study, perhaps related to the Bovine Flatulence studies.

     Cats do flatulate.  I have firsthand knowledge of this, and I
wish the gov't had paid me to find out.  Burping, I don't know.  But
the Alka-Seltzer will probably just make them noisy in a way you
hadn't expected.
 
Patrick "Rats, OTOH. . . ." Clark
-- 
Patrick S. Clark | "Well!  Peanut butter! . . . or so it seems."
Email is life!   | --Calvin 
Utah State University doesn't care what I put here . . . I hope.
Newsgroups: alt.folklore.urban
From: avyfdvg@unicorn.nott.ac.uk (David Gatenby)
Subject: Re: A Possible Russian UL
Organization: Cripps Computing Centre, University of Nottingham
Date: Tue, 15 Sep 92 21:26:43 GMT

In article <1992Sep15.135721.3108@nntp.nta.no> styri@nta.no writes:
>[Soap in beer story deleted]
>
I was in Russia (Voronezh) from the beginning of September 1991 till the start
of July this year, and heard nothing of these kinds of rumours.


*David Gatenby, Dept of Slavonic Studies  *                           *
*University of Nottingham, University Park* "Rasslab'sya, otechestvo" *
*NOTTINGHAM, England NG7  2RD             *   (pun, not misspelling)  *
*                         avyfdvg@unicorn.nott.ac.uk                  *
Newsgroups: alt.folklore.urban
From: obrien@netcom.com (Robert O'Brien)
Subject: Re: More FAQs than You Can Shake a Stick At, Nosmo King!
Date: Wed, 09 Sep 92 08:01:22 GMT
Organization: Netcom Online Communications Services (408-241-9760 login: guest)

On the subject of unusual names: two people I've met-

Frederikc, who explained that his mother didn't want the 'c' at all, but
the D.R. nurse insisted(!) it had to be there.

Brown Tommy, whose last name I've intentionally misspelled, but that's how
it's correctly pronounced.


	Bob

ObFact:Last time I saw either, it was within a mile radius of the chicken-gun.
ObServation: I haven't the slightest what the "Ob" prefix means.
From: bartnik@acsu.buffalo.edu (David Bartnik)
Newsgroups: alt.folklore.urban
Subject: Re: Notorious Toothpaste Skit
Date: 10 Sep 92 20:23:47 GMT
Organization: State University of New York at Buffalo/Comp Sci

In article <1992Sep10.172818.8887@unislc.uucp> dw@unislc.uucp (Dan Wright) writes:
> ...
>
>the brush, and proceeds to brush his teeth.  He then rinses with the
>water, spitting it back into the cup.  The next performer comes on,
>squeezes more toothpaste onto the brush, brushes his teeth thoroughly,
>then uses the dirty water to rinse, again spitting it back into the cup.
>The audience gets more grossed out and groans more loudly as two other
>performers come on and further dirty the water in their turn.  The cup
>is looking positively sickening when the last performer comes on.  For
>this role Mr. McGrew would chose the prettiest, most dainty girl he
>could find.  After brushing her teeth, this girl does the unthinkable:
>she raises the filthy cup to her lips and drinks it all down, swallowing
>several times, till every last drop is gone.
>
> ...
>
>Have any of you seen a similar trick?  Do any of you know of some other
>device or explanation for this skit?
>
>  -- Dan Wright

Saw it on the gong show once.  Just recalling it grosses me out.


Dave Bartnik
From: owen@Software.Mitel.COM (Blake Owen)
Newsgroups: alt.folklore.urban
Subject: Re: Business Reply Cards & Junk Mail...
Date: 14 Sep 92 17:15:41 GMT
Organization: Mitel. Kanata (Ontario). Canada.

In article <BuI238.8r2@news.cso.uiuc.edu> btd43733@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (BTDonovan) writes:
>Greetings, all...
>
>I once heard that one of the best ways to convince junk mailers to take your
>name off their mailing lists is to attatch a large rock to a those 
>"Postage paid by adressee" business reply cards.  Has anyone out there tried it
>and is it effective?  Also, this wouldn't constitute mail-fraud or some other
>obscure breach in protocol, would it?  (If not, I have a couple of boulders
>to send out in the next few days :)
>
>btd
>

I don't know about a rock, but on the rare occasions that I receive junk
mail with a postage-paid envelope, I usually fill the envelope with their 
own stuff plus any other junk mail that happened to arrive that day and 
pop it back in the mail. It doesn't accomplish much, but it makes me feel 
better. (This is for commercial ventures only; I'm not quite so mean with
charities.)

A less confrontational method is to ask any magazine or charity to
which you subscribe to refrain from adding your name to the mailing
lists that they sell to other "carefully selected organizations."
(A "carefully selected organization" is one whose cheques don't bounce.)
I don't know if the refusal feature is made available by law or by 
convention, but it works: I get very little junk mail.  

Blake



-- 
R. B. Owen              |
Mitel Corp.             |
Kanata, Ontario         |
owen@Software.Mitel.COM |
Newsgroups: alt.folklore.urban