From: davem@mcs213k.cs.umr.edu (Dave Mentis)
Subject: Re: Incongruent discipline philosophies (Was: Re: 20/20 and Spanking)
Date: Mon, 9 Nov 1992 00:13:15 GMT
Distribution: na
Organization: University of Missouri - Rolla

In article <4893@crl.LABS.TEK.COM> sjk@strl.labs.tek.com (Steven King) writes:
>Is it "better" to believe in spanking and only use it in a rational manner
>when other methods fail, or is it "better" to _not_ believe in spanking and 
>use it in a moment of anger?
>

An interesting question. (At least for me).

I'm not sure what constitutes "believe" ...

In pure theory, I guess I have no trouble with spanking, at least not
to the point of considering it de facto abuse. Plus I was spanked some
and I can't say that it did me any harm or that the things I resented
about my parents were related to spankings all that much. Usually
inconsistency/unfairness was the issue for me. Both in cases that
involved spanking and those that didn't ...

On the other hand, I don't do it myself. I've spanked Dava 2 or 3 times
a long time ago for what I believe were valid reasons -- e.g. running
into the street, etc., but I can't recall now for sure... 

It's always seemed to me that for ME, dealing with DAVA in particular,
that I've always been able to reason with her and

a) get as good, if not better results in whatever short term behavior
   modification I've wanted as opposed to trying to get it by spanking,

b) not get her nearly as agitated as she would be from spanking.

c) I feel better about not getting myself agitated -- I suspect that
   I could spank her frequently and not be "abusive", or escalate
   the process, but all too frequently the sole purpose of our
   encounters would be to see who could be the most bullheaded.
   I'd win for the next few years because I'm not only bigger
   physically, but have a few more tools to work with. Then she
   may well "win" after that. But we'd both lose ....

Don't get me wrong. At 29 months, she's bullheaded now and occasionally
I still have instances where I have to repeat myself a million times,
in a cheery, repetitive, eventually monotone voice

"Dava, put the cat down and come inside. It's time to eat/too late to play/
 too cold , etc..."

"Dava, (ad nauseum) ... "

Sometimes I'm probably too patient.
Sometimes I'm probably too lenient (sp?).
But she seems to be happy. She seems to be well behaved. Just interested
enough in the world that she doesn't want to be bothered by the
silly things that adults want (come in NOW because we want to choose
what we'll be doing next ... that kind of stuff that certainly has
its place, but all too often gets in the way of a child exploring/
growing in a really positive manner ...

Anyway, one thing that bothers me ...

And what I wrote about being repetitive above is funny -- it reminds me
of what I've run into in the classroom before as a teacher -- students
who constantly keep pressing you for {a better grade, a chance to
retake a test they shouldn't have missed, etc...} when they clearly
aren't justified -- they've learned somewhere that it's perfectly
valid to question authority solely because they'd like some other
outcome, whether justified or not, until you finally break down
and give in to get it over with. I occasionally fear that what I
do with my daughter is what she'll learn to do with the world at
large and she'll suffer for it when she runs into somebody who
draws the line ... Although I reassure myself that I draw the line
with older people who know better and are testing my limits and
that I do some with her too (and will do so more as she gets older
and better able to grasp the subtleties ...

Funny how views change. Especially about child rearing.
I start out my life thinking I'll always be "conservative".
I wake up one day finding I'm much more "liberal" (enough so to
wake up in the middle of the night in a cold sweat wondering
when my body was taken over by pod-like beings ;-)
And regarding this ongoing debate on m.k, finding that my call letters
are YMMV -- that I'm ultimately a "libertarian".

That last part works out nice. If I can give everybody else
the opportunity to choose what works best for them, I guess
I'm free to change my personal approach when I find it's necessary.

Weird. This started out as a simple question by you and ends up
feeling like a request to me to describe "The correct method of
Parenting (tm)" in 25 words or less.

I'm obviously not going to get it done here, since I'm already
over my 25 word limit  ;-)

Oh well. Something more to continue pondering ...


>
>Food for thought and discussion only.  This is not intended to single
>out any individual.  OK?  :^)  (Ah, what the heck.  I'll probably get
>flamed by somebody anyway...)
>

Of course you will. This is abUSENET. No politely asked, valid question
has EVER gone unpunished here. And in keeping with that tradition,
I won't post any smileys here.


  -- davem@cs.umr.edu
     Dave Mentis
     Univ. of MO at Rolla, CSc dept.

P.S. I lied. :-) :-) :-) :-) :-) :-) :-) :-)
     (And that'll probably draw flames, too :-) )
-- 
 There is no magic catapult to propel them back; they must   
 boost themselves over the wall of terror.                  
                                                           
 -- La Vergne Rosow; Phi Delta Kappan, 10/92, Vol 74, #2