HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: objsys@netcom.com (Bob Hathaway)
Newsgroups: comp.object
Subject: FAQ
Keywords: FAQ
Date: 26 Aug 92 20:36:15 GMT
Organization: Object Systems

Because of several requests for a FAQ for this newsgroup, Bernhard Rumpe
and I have agreed to collaborate on one.  Our hope is to help clear up
any common misconceptions and misunderstandings due to terminology or
uncommon frames of reference and to provide a handy reference for existing
object-oriented systems and software.  The FAQ should cover most areas of
interest discussed in this newsgroup from available and/or free software to
OOA/OOD, OO programming languages and methodologies, OO databases, OO CASE,
and etc. ad infinitum.  Any qualified help or reference lists would be
helpful; we're just getting started.

bob
objsys@netcom.com

P.S.  I promise the terms RWM, MWM and AWM will not appear in the FAQ;-)
Newsgroups: comp.object
From: nh@cbnewsg.cb.att.com (nicholas.hounsome)
Subject: Re: OMT CASE Tool for MS Windows
Organization: AT&T
Date: Wed, 2 Sep 1992 07:22:26 GMT

From article <1992Sep01.081153.29839@news.th-darmstadt.de>, by kunstman@pu.informatik.th-darmstadt.de (Thomas Kunstmann):
> billc@npg-sd.SanDiegoCA.NCR.COM (Bill Canning) writes:
> 
>>A tool you may want to try is Paradigm Plus from ProtoSoft in Houston, TX. 
>>(phone 713-480-3233). It provides OO design support for both Rumbaugh and 
>>Booch methodologies (as well as others). There is an MS Windows and a SUN
>>OS version available at the present time.
> 
> Does anybody have an email or fax-number of this company? Any experiences 
> with the tool?
> 
> Thanks,
>   Thomas 

try

17629 El Camino Real
Suite 202
Houston , TX 77058

Fax 713-480-6606

It seems interesting but they have no european distributor and it
is a bit pricey especialy when they want a piece if you use the nice
feature of creating your own CASE tool.
They will send you a slide show demo disk - hello all software companies -
slide show demos are crap - they give you no more than a glossy and
the run excruciatingly slowly - I gave up before the end.

From: kers@hplb.hpl.hp.com (Chris Dollin)
Date: Fri, 4 Sep 1992 08:26:32 GMT
Subject: Re: Re: Object-Oriented Methodologies - Class Specifications
Organization: Hewlett-Packard Laboratories, Bristol, UK.
Newsgroups: comp.object

In article ... Bob Hathaway <objsys@netcom.com> writes:

   P.S.  I still contend that dynamic functions are just functions and generic
   functions aren't necessary for selection since they could be eliminated
   from the language without a semantic difference.  The methods are all that
   are *necessary*, no?

No.
--

Regards,    | "If taking devious pains was a sign of laziness, he was quite
Kers.       | prepared to call Hazelton the laziest man alive." Blish (m-o-l)
From: rjp@dcs.ed.ac.uk (Rob Pooley)
Newsgroups: comp.object
Subject: Re: Object-Oriented Methodologies - Class Specifications
Date: 2 Sep 92 08:58:20 GMT
Organization: Department of Computer Science, University of Edinburgh

The danger of navel inspection is well known. Whilst I agree that the definition of a
circle is fascinating it doesn't really have any direct connection to designing a
class library.

If I ask my children to define a circle, they will draw one. The mathematicians may
have fancy definitions, but my kids don't know that. Since their "definition" is
older than the mathematicians' which is right?

You define any class in the context of its use. Any methodology that doesn't know
this is going to take you down the same old blind alleys as past "problems" with
OO techniques. I make draw into a method of circle if that helps me build my package
in a way that is easy to understand and to use. It may invoke a draw method in the
screen or printer or strean object to which it is currently connected. T%his is why
we need virtual and the ability to tell an object about its environment (Parameters
as we used to call them).

Keep it simple and remember what you are trying to do. Don't fit the problem to the
method, but fit the method to the problem. You could both be right (or wrong)
depending on the context.

Rob Pooley
Computer Science, Edinburgh University
From: schnee@sail.ncsl.nist.gov (Rick Schneeman)
Newsgroups: comp.object
Subject: Next OMG Meeting
Date: 1 Sep 92 18:46:28 GMT
X-Newsreader: Tin 1.1 PL3

Does anyone out there in object land know when the next OMG
meeting is and the location.

Thanks...

=======================================================
Richard Schneeman
National Institute of Standards & Technology (NIST)
Computer Systems Laboratory (CSL)
Distributed Systems Engineering Group
Technology Building (225), MS-B266
Gaithersburg, Maryland 20899 USA
schnee@sail.ncsl.nist.gov
=======================================================
From: jrickard@eoe.co.uk (John Rickard)
Newsgroups: comp.object
Subject: Re: O.M() versus M(O) notation
Date: 25 Aug 92 18:52:45 GMT
Organization: EO Europe Limited, Cambridge, UK
X-Newsreader: Tin 1.1 PL3

theo@rascal.UUCP (1472) writes:
: In article <1992Aug15.124149.28538@m.cs.uiuc.edu> johnson@m.cs.uiuc.edu (Ralph Johnson) writes:
: >
: >I remember a short story (probably science fiction) in which there was
: >a line like: "My name is Jonathon Marks.  The name of my name is
: >Big Bill.  Call me Wally."  Also, his gun had a name, the name of
: >his gun had a name, and he called his gun something else.  This
: >seems to illustrate the problem well.  Does anybody remember the
: >author and title of this short story?
: >

Perhaps "The Deep", by John Crowley (a novel, not a short story)?
An extract: "Her name was Nyam<e acute> and the name of her name was
Nod. Her Gun's name was Suddenly."
Newsgroups: comp.object
From: kunstman@pu.informatik.th-darmstadt.de (Thomas Kunstmann)
Subject: Re: OMT CASE Tool for MS Windows
Date: Tue, 01 Sep 1992 08:11:53 GMT
Organization: TH Darmstadt
Keywords: OMT CASE Windows

billc@npg-sd.SanDiegoCA.NCR.COM (Bill Canning) writes:

>A tool you may want to try is Paradigm Plus from ProtoSoft in Houston, TX. 
>(phone 713-480-3233). It provides OO design support for both Rumbaugh and 
>Booch methodologies (as well as others). There is an MS Windows and a SUN
>OS version available at the present time.

Does anybody have an email or fax-number of this company? Any experiences 
with the tool?

Thanks,
  Thomas 

.-----------------------------------------.---------------------------------.
|            Thomas Kunstmann             | Technische Hochschule Darmstadt |
| kunstmann@pu.informatik.th-darmstadt.de |            Germany              |
`-----------------------------------------'---------------------------------'
--
-----------------------------------------.---------------------------------.
|            Thomas Kunstmann             | Technische Hochschule Darmstadt |
| kunstmann@pu.informatik.th-darmstadt.de |            Germany              |
`-----------------------------------------'---------------------------------'
Xref: sparky comp.object:3347 comp.lang.eiffel:1099 comp.lang.smalltalk:1729
From: dvorak@ast.dsd.northrop.com (dvorak joseph l.)
Newsgroups: comp.object,comp.lang.eiffel,comp.lang.smalltalk
Subject: Future Issues of Object Orientation
Date: 27 Aug 92 18:06:22 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: Northrop Corp - ESD, Rolling Meadows, IL


 I would like to start a discussion about what people believe
 will be the critical issues in object technology in the next
 5 - 8 years. What solutions to these issues do you see and
 how will the solutions affect the object model?

 If you do not wish to or cannot post your answer, you can
 mail it to me. I will post a summary of all mailed replies.
From: mas@informatik.uni-kiel.dbp.de (Meinolf Asshoff)
Newsgroups: comp.object
Subject: problems with SIMULA under DOS
Summary: who is working with simula under DOS ?
Keywords: SIMULA, DOS, GRAPHICS
Date: 28 Aug 92 08:23:51 GMT
Organization: Dept. of Computer Science, University of Kiel, FRG

Hello everybody,
does anyone work with SIMULA on PCs under DOS (or Windows) ?
We just got a version from Simula a.s. in Oslo, Norway, 
distributed by SIMULA-Team in Dortmund, Germany. Its a mess, 
it doesn't work with the simplest examples. The test programm runs,
but when we insert something simple or delete for instance one of 3
instructions of the same kind the computer breaks down. Sometimes
renaming of a file removes the problems ...

- Have you made your own experiences with this version ore are there
  other implementations of Simula for DOS ?
- Or do you know Simula classes for graphical presentation under VMS
  that we might use on our microVax ?

Please let me know, we are in trouble.

Thanks, Meinolf Asshoff

-------------------------------------------------------------------------
   Meinolf Asshoff                   mas@informatik.uni-kiel.dbp.de
   Ecosystem Research Center         NOE48@rz.uni-kiel.dbp.de
   University of Kiel                Meinolf@pz-oekosys.uni-kiel.dbp.de
   Schauenburgerstr. 112             
   D-W-2300 Kiel 1                     < models are only substitites for
   Germany                               rational thoughts > (Park)
-------------------------------------------------------------------------

From mas Thu Aug 27 18:55:25 1992
Subject: problems with simula under DOS
To: simula@dearn.bitnet
Date: Thu, 27 Aug 92 18:55:25 MET DST
Cc: mas (Meinolf Asshoff)

Hello everybody,
does anyone work with SIMULA on PCs under DOS (or Windows) ?
We just got a version from Simula a.s. in Oslo, Norway, 
distributed by SIMULA-Team in Dortmund, Germany. Its a mess, 
it doesn't work with the simplest examples. The test programm runs,
but when we insert something simple or delete for instance one of 3
instructions of the same kind the computer breaks down. Sometimes
renaming of a file removes the problems ...

- Have you made your own experiences with this version ore are there
  other implementations of Simula for DOS ?
- Or do you know Simula classes for graphical presentation under VMS
  that we might use on our microVax ?

Please let me know, we are in trouble.

Thanks, Meinolf Asshoff

-------------------------------------------------------------------------
   Meinolf Asshoff                   mas@informatik.uni-kiel.dbp.de
   Ecosystem Research Center         NOE48@rz.uni-kiel.dbp.de
   University of Kiel                Meinolf@pz-oekosys.uni-kiel.dbp.de
   Schauenburgerstr. 112             
   D-W-2300 Kiel 1                     < models are substitites for
   Germany                               rational thoughts > (Park)
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: johnson@m.cs.uiuc.edu (Ralph Johnson)
Subject: Re: Object-Oriented Methodologies - Class Specifications
Organization: University of Illinois, Dept. of Comp. Sci., Urbana, IL
Date: Thu, 3 Sep 1992 03:30:15 GMT

In response to an article of mine, sjm@bcrki65.bnr.ca (Stuart MacMartin) writes: 

>Yes, I suppose.  But intersectLine???  Do you really support having a
>pair-wise solution?  If I want to add another GeometricObject if there are,
>say, 10 already, do I add 10 intersection methods????  What about the 
>symmetric intersection methods in the other classes?  How do I then find
>the intersection of two arbitrary geometric objects?  Must I be able to
>find the types at runtime?

Let's forget about OOP, and just think about geometry.  An algorithm to
test whether two circles intersect is different from one that tests whether
a cicle intersects with a line, or whether two rectangles intersect.
We can have default approximate algorithms, like check whether the bounding
boxes of the two geometric objects intersect.  We can also have slower
algorithms for arbitrary polygons that can be replaced by more efficient
algorithms for special cases like rectangles.  The *problem domain* implies
that a solution will have to have lots of special cases.

Several people have mentioned that CLOS generic functions are the correct
solution to this problem, and they are right.  Those of us who use
languages without generic functions use double-dispatching to solve the
problem, which is essentially the same as generic functions if you squint
right.  (Since I program in Smalltalk and C++, I have a perpetual squint.)
This has the obvious problems that adding new classes requires modifying
existing ones, but that is because we are dealing with a problem whose
solution depends on the classes of more than one object.  If you don't
like that then you can always go back to CASE statements.  The real solution
is to provide better language and programming environment support for
operations that depend on the class of several objects, whether this
be generic functions or something else.

>I don't want my compiling or (especially!) my module size to be 
>adversely affected.  I have seen cases where using one routine from a 
>utility package increased the size of the executable by 50% because of all 
>the extraneous junk that was pulled in due to this packaging philosophy.  
>Will this happen in your case, or am I unduly worried about a problem that
>doesn't appear in standard OO languages?

This will happen in all the C++ systems I know about.  Smalltalk systems
leave the decision for what gets included up to you (by letting you specify
what gets stripped), which is no better.  Language implementers need to
take this problem seriously, or it will inhibit the use of reusable software.

Ralph Johnson -- University of Illinois at Urbana-Champaign
From: sm86+@andrew.cmu.edu (Stefan Monnier)
Newsgroups: comp.object,comp.c++
Subject: Re: c++ public domain and code
Date: 3 Sep 92 16:57:09 GMT
Organization: Junior, Math/Computer Science, Carnegie Mellon, Pittsburgh, PA

Excerpts from netnews.comp.c++: 31-Jul-92 c++ public domain and code
Liang Liu@seas.gwu.edu (95)

> Hi there, I am looking for C++ public domain locations.
> Thanks in advance.

> liang@seas.gwu.edu


It is GCC !

All GNU software can be found at ftp.uu.net  (in /packages/gnu)
For specific sites, it is highly machine dependant !

	Stefan Monnier

-----------------------------------------------------
-- On the average, people seem to be acting normal --
-----------------------------------------------------
Newsgroups: comp.object
From: irvine@ntmtv.UUCP (Chuck Irvine)
Subject: OMT CASE Tool for MS Windows
Keywords: OMT CASE Windows
Organization: Northern Telecom Inc, Mountain View, CA
Date: Sat, 29 Aug 1992 01:09:16 GMT

Does anyone know if there are CASE tools based around Rumbaugh's
OMT OOA/D methodology for MS Windows 3.x? Same question for Booch? 
Thanks.

Chuck Irvine
ames!ntmtv!irvine
Newsgroups: comp.object
From: eliot@dcs.qmw.ac.uk (Eliot Miranda;W211)
Newsgroups: comp.object
Subject: Re: O.M(...) vs M(...), and is the Real World O-O?
Date: 25 Aug 92 17:42:24 GMT
Organization: Computer Science Dept, QMW, University of London

In <KERS.92Aug24102247@cdollin.hpl.hp.com> kers@hplb.hpl.hp.com (Chris Dollin) writes:

>In article ... bradcox@infoage.com (Brad Cox) writes:

>   [I wrote]
>   > What I *do* deny is that the ``natural'' way we see the world and our
>   > programs means that the underlying structure of the world is necessarily
>   > ``like that'', and that object models are more than an analogy for the
>   > world -- and that they are *worse*, for the purposes of understanding
>   > the world, than other models that we *do* have.

>   Could this be the distinction you're belaboring? Computer-resident
>   objects invoke each other unilaterally. Objects in the real world
>   communicate bilaterally; through satisfaction of bi-directional
>   constraints instead of one simply invoking the other.

I'm on shaky ground here, because I'm NOT a physicist, but as I understand it
both quantum electro-dynamics (governing interactions between electrically
charged particles) & quantum chromo-dynamics (governing strong particles
(quarks)) model interactions between particles as the integral effect of the
one-way exchange of virtual particles (photons in the case of QED, gluons in
the case of QCD).  This isn't bi-lateral at all, and constraints are not
maintained, but an equilibrium in the number of exchange particles may occur.

But its only a model...
--
Eliot Miranda			email:	eliot@dcs.qmw.ac.uk
Department of Computer Science	ARPA:	eliot%dcs.qmw.ac.uk@nsf.ac.uk
Queen Mary Westfield College	UUCP:	eliot@qmw-dcs.uucp
Mile End Road, LONDON E1 4NS	Tel:	071 975 5229 (+44 71 975 5229)
				Fax:	081 980 6533 (+44 81 980 6533)
From: objsys@netcom.com (Bob Hathaway)
Newsgroups: comp.object
Subject: Re: Object-Oriented Methodologies - Class Specifications
Date: 4 Sep 92 01:31:34 GMT
Organization: Object Systems

In article <1992Sep3.033015.31493@m.cs.uiuc.edu> johnson@m.cs.uiuc.edu (Ralph Johnson) writes:
>>  ... [On object knowledge of geometry functions] ...
>Several people have mentioned that CLOS generic functions are the correct
>solution to this problem, and they are right.

Packaged functions work Ok but they seem identical to an OO manager approach.
A geometry package with all of the geometry functions could be declared or
a geometry object with all of the geometry functions as member functions could
be declared.  No real geometry object has to exist with C++'s static functions
and object and package qualification isn't much different.  Assuming dynamic
selection is available for both, is there really any difference?  

bob
objsys@netcom.com

P.S.  I still contend that dynamic functions are just functions and generic
functions aren't necessary for selection since they could be eliminated
from the language without a semantic difference.  The methods are all that
are *necessary*, no?

P.S.S.  Thank you very much Barry Margolin for your type/class answer; I'm
  considering it.
Newsgroups: comp.object
From: oherb@jhunix.hcf.jhu.edu (Zoher B Bambot)
Subject: Re: GC (was Let's build a new OOP language)
Organization: HAC - Johns Hopkins University, Baltimore
Date: Fri, 28 Aug 1992 20:36:29 GMT


I am working on developing classes for simulation of finite element meshes
using the object-oriented language c++. I would be grateful if anyone could
send me any programs in c++ which would help me in my work. Also has anyone 
developed a class for the simulation of a FEM for any particular structure.
You can mail them to me at my e-mail address and then I will summarize in
the net. Also are there any ftp sites from where I could get any useful
information. Thanx in advance.
                         Zoher.
Newsgroups: comp.object
From: sjm@bcrki65.bnr.ca (Stuart MacMartin)
Subject: Re: Object-Oriented Methodologies - Class Specifications
Reply-To: sjm@bcrki65.bnr.ca (Stuart MacMartin)
Organization: Bell-Northern Research, Ottawa, Canada
Date: Wed, 2 Sep 1992 13:52:47 GMT

In article <1992Sep1.220559.10346@m.cs.uiuc.edu>, johnson@m.cs.uiuc.edu
(Ralph Johnson) writes:
> [some sentences removed in the following...]
>  Basically, I think your assumption that a Circle shouldn't know
> anything about a Line is mistaken.  If you want to be able to intersect
> geometric figures, and I claim that is *essential* to the meaning of
> geometric figures, then you have to be able to compare one with another.
> This means that you have to have something like intersectLine.

> A Circle should
> be part of a GeometricObject family of classes.  There will be a standard
> set of operations that all the classes must implement, such as intersecting
> with a point or another GeometricObject.  These classes will be designed
> as a family and will probably be used as a family.  You are unlikely to use
> a Circle in an application and not use a Line.  

Yes, I suppose.  But intersectLine???  Do you really support having a
pair-wise solution?  If I want to add another GeometricObject if there are,
say, 10 already, do I add 10 intersection methods????  What about the 
symmetric intersection methods in the other classes?  How do I then find
the intersection of two arbitrary geometric objects?  Must I be able to
find the types at runtime?

I also disagree that if you use one you will use them all.  Consider the
extreme case of a few basic GeometricObject classes and many exotic ones.
If I want to use only lines, circles and points in some simple application, 
I don't want my compiling or (especially!) my module size to be 
adversely affected.  I have seen cases where using one routine from a 
utility package increased the size of the executable by 50% because of all 
the extraneous junk that was pulled in due to this packaging philosophy.  
Will this happen in your case, or am I unduly worried about a problem that
doesn't appear in standard OO languages?

Stuart

: Stuart MacMartin                                    email: sjm@bnr.ca      :
: Bell-Northern Research                              phone: (613) 763-5625  :
: PO Box 3511, Stn C, Ottawa, K1Y-4H7, CANADA    Standard disclaimers apply. :
From: billc@npg-sd.SanDiegoCA.NCR.COM (Bill Canning)
Newsgroups: comp.object
Subject: Re: OMT CASE Tool for MS Windows
Keywords: OMT CASE Windows
Date: 31 Aug 92 18:20:08 GMT
Reply-To: billc@npg-sd.SanDiegoCA.NCR.COM (Bill Canning)
Organization: NCR Corp., Network Products - San Diego

In article <1992Aug29.010916.27496@ntmtv> irvine@ntmtv.UUCP (Chuck Irvine)
writes:
>Does anyone know if there are CASE tools based around Rumbaugh's
>OMT OOA/D methodology for MS Windows 3.x? Same question for Booch? 
>Thanks.

A tool you may want to try is Paradigm Plus from ProtoSoft in Houston, TX. 
(phone 713-480-3233). It provides OO design support for both Rumbaugh and 
Booch methodologies (as well as others). There is an MS Windows and a SUN
OS version available at the present time.

Bill Canning
ADE Business Unit
NCR San Diego
>
From: pheras@iris-dcp.es
Newsgroups: comp.object,comp.c++
Subject: Re: c++ public domain and code
Date: 4 Sep 92 09:47:22 +0100
Organization: REDIRIS, Red Nacional de I+D

In article <1992Sep3.205150.28894@m.cs.uiuc.edu>, zygote@cs.uiuc.edu (The seed of all life) writes:
> Stefan Monnier <sm86+@andrew.cmu.edu> writes:
> 
>>Excerpts from netnews.comp.c++: 31-Jul-92 c++ public domain and code
>>Liang Liu@seas.gwu.edu (95)
> 
>>> Hi there, I am looking for C++ public domain locations.
> 
>>It is GCC !
> 
>>All GNU software can be found at ftp.uu.net  (in /packages/gnu)
>>For specific sites, it is highly machine dependant !
> 
> Is there an OO Lisp available in the public domain?  (please post,
> this account has mail problems currently).
> 
> Thanks


There is a CLOS version in PARC.

	Pedro de las Heras
	SPAIN-EUROPE


	heras@taf.fundesco.es

Newsgroups: comp.object
From: jeffery@flood.com (Jeffery Cavallaro)
Subject: Re: OMT CASE Tool for MS Windows
Organization: The Flood Group, Inc.  Torrance, Ca.
Date: Fri, 4 Sep 92 16:28:17 GMT

In article <1992Sep3.073626.165@mcopn3.dseg.ti.com> lagrone@mcopn3.dseg.ti.com writes:
>
>  There is also a product from Palladio Software in Wisconsin that supports
>  Booch (but nothing else).  Sorry, I don't have the contact data with me;
>  but they have an add in the September (August?) issue of Computer Language.
>
>  The product is $495 and seems to fully support Booch as documented in 
>  "Object Oriented Design with Applications".
>
>  Hope this helps!
>

There particulars are:

PALLADIO SOFTWARE
Suite 360
16535 W. Bluemound Road,
Brookfield, WI.  53005
414-789-5253
414-789-5191

Apparently, Palladio is in the process of updating the software to reflect the
additions reported in Computer Languages magazine.

I got one of their demo disks.  The basic graphical editor is OK, but it does
not allow you to select fonts, just sizes.  Also, I felt that the printed
output (on our LaserWriter IINTX) was asthetically poor.  The dashed lines on
the clouds were to small, titles were not vertically centered, and the font
looked out of place.  Unfortunately, by design, there is no way to customize
the product,
Newsgroups: comp.object