HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: fiddler@concertina.Eng.Sun.COM (steve hix)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: Need opitical spanner wrench to service scope
Date: 9 Apr 92 23:30:58 GMT
Organization: Sun Microsystems, Mt. View, Ca.

In article <52858@mimsy.umd.edu> hes@unity.ncsu.edu (Henry E. Schaffer) writes:
#Many years ago I used to do some repairs on microscopes, and I
#found a neat set of spanner wrenches from Edmund Scientific in
#NJ.  They consisted of two hex bars, long and short, and two
#
#  I don't have any idea if they still carry such.

As of their last catalog, they still do.

--
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Of making many books there is no end...  |  What's wrong with chasing 
                       -- Eccl. 12:12    |  nebulae till 3 am?  |-(
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
From: andy@sail.stanford.edu (Andy Freeman)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Gun-Free School Zones and Gun Cases
Date: 13 Apr 92 20:42:30 GMT
Followup-To: talk.politics.guns
Organization: Computer Science Department,  Stanford University.


Under the Gun-Free School Zone Act of 1990 (part of the Crime Control
Act of 1990, HR 3757, signed by Bush on Jan 29,1991 and unopposed by
the ILA), it "shall be deemed to be a misdemeanor", punishable by 5
years and/or $5k*, for non-licensees to possess a gun within 1000 ft
of a school.  Unloaded guns in locked containers or in locked racks
are okay, but none of those non-locking long gun cases qualify.  It
will be expensive to figure out whether or not a locked trunk or glove
compartment qualifies.

That's independent of state law, although many states are considering
similar measures.

-andy

* - As I remember the red book, the relevant gun ownership term wasn't
"felony", but crime punishable by more than one year...

[Note to moderator: yes, I'm posting this to tpg as well.  The
readerships are different and I expect the responses to be as well.]

-- 
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ARPA:    andy@cs.stanford.edu
From: barry@uts.amdahl.com (Barry Needham)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: 9mm vs 40S&W - which to choose?
Date: 12 Apr 92 21:30:59 GMT
Organization: Amdahl Corporation, Sunnyvale CA


nsc!jrr@decwrl.dec.com (Jerry Roe) writes:

#In article <52298@mimsy.umd.edu> rsl@well.sf.ca.us (Roy Stuart Levin) writes:
##
##
##Posters comment:
##Again, the efficiency of the .40 has not been verified in real cases.

#Well...sort of.  Massad Ayoob, in one of his recent magazine articles
#(within the last 2 months or so, but I can't remember which magazine),
#did a story on two recent police-involved shootings in which the bad
#guys were taken down by the .40.  And "taken down" seems to be the
#operative phrase; they ceased hostilities Real Quick, as I recall the
#article.  If I remember right (memory's not too good on this, obviously)
#he was also comparing the .40 to the 10MM and opined that the .40 was
#showing up much more favorably than the 10, primarily because the 10
#is just too powerful - far too much penetration (like, all the way
#through).  Not to mention muzzle blast and recoil.

The .40 S&W is an OK round, the primary advantage being that it can fit in a
smaller package than the full house 10mm or .45 ACP; and it's much better than
a 9.  The real point is that ballisticly the 10mm can do everything that the
.40 S&W can, and a whole lot more besides.

For example, the .40 S&W and 10mm Hydroshock rounds are identical; same bullet
weight (180 Grains) and velocity (980 FPS).  The advantage that the 10 has is
that it can go higher, much higher.

	170 Grain Silvertip at 1250 FPS
	200 Grain Jacketed HP at 1200 FPS

The 200 Grain load starts to look a lot like a .41 Magnum.

Now penetration, or over penetration, can be a very interesting subject.  It
depends a lot on what type of problem you're trying to solve.

   1) You might view the best case as a pair of perfect A-Zone hits on a
      lightly clad 160 pound target.

   2) A somewhat more difficult problem is the 300 pound biker type wearing 3
      layers of silicon impregnated leather where the round has to go through
      a windshield (or car door with the window rolled down) and maybe a
      forearm before it can even start to hit something vital.

   3) The worst case might be the 450 pound bear that has just decided that
      you and that fish that you've been catching are much more interesting
      than that berry bush.

Most rounds that can solve problems two and three will go right through
problem one.  I see the advantage of the 10 in that I can load to solve
any of these, and in my mind more is probably better than less.

Barry.

Barry Needham           barry@uts.amdahl.com           USA (408) 992-2527
-- 
Barry Needham          barry@uts.amdahl.com          USA (408) 992-2527
From: sybok@m11-113-5.MIT.EDU (The Terminator)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: PEN GUN
Date: 13 Apr 92 12:46:21 GMT
Organization: Massachusetts Institute of Technology

#But the important issue isn't what the law says. Unless you are someone
#prepared to go to court and spend lots of dollars staying out of jail,
#you *ASK* the BATF what they think. Even if you do have lots of money
#and can afford to spend it on lawyers, you still ask them before you do
#something on the edges of the law. If you have a disagreement with them,
#you take them to court BEFORE you potentially break the law. Or you still
#go to jail.

It looks like the only distinction between pen guns and handguns is on
the federal level--Massachusetts makes no distinction.  Thus, I could get
one if I paid the $200 transfer tax and applied for a BATF background check?
From: jca@crash.cts.com (John C. Archambeau)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: Glock 21
Date: 13 Apr 92 12:46:32 GMT
Organization: Crash TimeSharing, El Cajon, CA

In article <53074@mimsy.umd.edu> dickwin@sequent.com (Dick Winningstad) writes:
#Anybody used a Glock 21?  I'm thinking of buying one, but would like
#to hear from happy or sad users first.
#What are the advantages or disadvantages to using this gun?

1. Calibre  : .45 ACP
2. Firepower: 13 round magazine

I tried the grip of one at at gun show this weekend and it fit alright,
but it was an uncomfortable grip.  I preferred the grip of the H&K P9S.

If you're going to buy a Glock 21, I suggest you do soon ASAP since I
did hear from one of the dealers at the show that the FBI is buying over
50,000 Glock 21.  This will make the Glock 21 unavailable to the public
for approximately one year.  I don't know if this is true or not, just
what I've heard so I thought I'd pass it on since you're considering
one.
--

     // JCA

 /*
 ** ARPA    : jadpc!thewall!jca@nosc.mil | "If it's SCO, it's CRAP!"
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From: dingbat@cix.compulink.co.uk (Codesmiths)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: Shotguns vs. handgus (was Re: .357 Home ...)
Date: 8 Apr 92 20:27:47 GMT

# There is one big advantage to shotguns over handguns though that I
# should mention.  The only practice one needs with a shotgun is to learn
# to manage the recoil.  That's it.  For the most part all you do is point
# and shoot.

Now thats a load of SCO if ever there was.  ;-)

What range are we talking about indoors ? 10', 20' ?  At that
distance, a shotgun is going to have a 6" pattern at most. In terms
of hitting a burglar, there is no significant difference in the
aiming accuracy required.

I don't know what the legality of that short Mossberg pump-action
bullpup shotgun is, but with an English gun, you'd either need to
keep the gun down at your side or wander around the darkened house
with the gun at your shoulder, just waiting for the intruder to reach
around the door, grab the barrel from the side, and club you on the
head with it. It's *harder* to control a shotgun, shooting from the
hip, than it is to use a handgun in the manner for which it was
designed. If you have a mansion thats big enough to walk around
carrying a shotgun in, then just leave the butler to deal with teh
problem.

If you're worried about intruders *outside*, especially small furry
ones with big teeth, then a shotgun makes sense. Inside, just forget
it.

Oh, 12 gauge. Forget 20s & .410 if you're hunting anything bigger
than paper.
From: johanneg@cs.rpi.edu (Gummi Johannesson)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Gunshop Dealers
Date: 16 Apr 92 22:29:23 GMT

Hi

I was reading the news in rec.guns when I saw that you are asking for 
addresses and phone numbers of reputable gunshop dealers in the States.

I am interested in the same information in order to do comparison of prices
of a shotgun that I'm interested in.

I would appreciate if you could forward the information that you get to me.

Thanks in advance,
  -Gummi (Gudmundur Thorri Johannesson)
From: miles@ms.uky.edu (Stephen D. Grant)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: LUBES (PRELUBE?)
Date: 7 Apr 92 18:13:21 GMT
Organization: University Of Kentucky, Dept. of Math Sciences

By the way,,,,
I treated a new rifle (Remington 700 PSS in .308) with the tetra-Gun, and
broke it in slowly, and the first day I got a 10-shot group at 100 yards
that measured .66" !!!
From: andy@SAIL.Stanford.EDU (Andy Freeman)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: Shotguns vs. handgus (was Re: .357 Home ...)
Date: 7 Apr 92 13:05:45 GMT
Organization: Computer Science Department,  Stanford University.

In article <52612@mimsy.umd.edu> jca@crash.cts.com (John C. Archambeau) writes:
#1. Recoil.  This can be especially bad with women.  If a woman does not
#   know how to handle a shotgun properly, she can bruise her chest very
#   badly.  This can be very serious.

Women who will shoot a gun seem to be far more reasonable about recoil
than men.  In fact, they think that it is part of the experience and
even enjoy it.  They think that .22s are some sort of stupid joke.

Sure, women react badly when they're handed a shotgun, told to take
a shot, and then have their "ouch" answered by "it kicks a bit, don't
it, I'll show you how to hold it".  They react badly because anyone
who does that to them is a dangerous fool.

Men, on the other hand, try to laugh it off, and put up a good front
(because they're men, and every man is born knowing how to shoot and
make love ... NOT!) but they don't come back for more either.

-andy
--
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From: alanko@ruuvi.me.tut.fi (Risto Alanko)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: Finnish rifle rewiew
Date: 9 Apr 92 14:04:48 GMT

#From: smpod@ariel.lerc.nasa.gov (Stefan)

 
##The old Russian barrel dimensions are different from all other 
##".30" -caliber barrels that use 7.83 mm bullets. Only the m/91-24 version 
##of the Civil Guard had the .30-cal. barrel (made in Switzerland) and 
##gave reasonable groups with the thin bullet.

#Is the m/91-24 the same as the M24?

Yes, old m/91:s repaired for Civil Guard.


##The latest trick for match reloading is to use the "assault rifle" bullet.
##Originally made for 7.63x39 (Russian AK 47 and Finnish M 60 assault 
##rifles), new light 7.92 mm spitzer bullet has given match accurracy with 
#                    ^^^^
##faster powders. 

#Is this an error ? Should it be 7.62?

No, AK 47 (7.62x39 Russian M43) barrel dimensions are (again) different 
than other ".30" caliber bores, a bit larger than usual .311 barrels.
These bullets are "tight, but right" for M-N barrels.

.30 "american bore"     = 7.83 mm bullets
7.62x53R (Mosin-Nagant) = 7.85 - 7.87 mm bullets
7.62x39 (Ak 47)         = 7.90 - 7.92 mm bullets

##Most Army matches are with issue sights. There are some "military 
#biathlon" #versions with diopter sights, though.

#Are these diopter sights of the type where the rifle needs to be drilled 
#and tapped?


Yes
*-=-=-*-=-=-*-=-=-*-=-=-*-=-=-*-=-=-*-=-=-*-=-=-*-=-=-*-=-=-*-=-=-*-=-=-*
    Risto Alanko                          alanko@ruuvi.me.tut.fi   
    Machine Design                        P.O.Box 589
    Tampere University of Technology      33101 Tampere, FINLAND
    FINLAND                               telefax INT+358 31 162307 
*-=-=-*-=-=-*-=-=-*-=-=-*-=-=-*-=-=-*-=-=-*-=-=-*-=-=-*-=-=-*-=-=-*-=-=-*
From: forda@gtephx.UUCP (Andrew Ford @ AGCS, Phoenix, Arizona)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: Revolver Hammer Shrouds...
Date: 7 Apr 92 13:04:39 GMT
Organization: gte

In article <52467@mimsy.umd.edu>, rboudrie@chpc.org (Rob Boudrie) writes:
# 
# Modern revolvers contain safeties which make it possible to safetly 
# carriy the gun with a round in the chamber under ther firing pin.  This
# advice dates from the "old days" where there was no such safety device
# (most specifically, on early model single action revolvers).  Still,
# some manuals (my Coly Python manual from ~1982, f'rinstance) recommend
# this outdated practice (probably because the lawyers tell them to advise
# every safety precaution, even those which are no longer needed).
# 
Which is kinda like hunting with a cocked rifle because the safety is 
on.  The safety mechanisms are designed to minimize the possibility of
an accidental discharge: like any other mechanisim, they will eventually
fail.  On a given number of revolvers (granted a very small number), this
safety will be the first failure.  Perhaps it will be your revolver which
has this failure: for your sake, I hope it's mine.  

I do not carry any weapon with a live round under the hammer no matter how
many safety features are in place to prevent accidental discharge.  You can
get away with relying on safety features for a long time, possibly even your
entire lifetime, but your grandchild may be the one who is using the gun when
the saftey feature fails: will that child be relying on the safety features or
on good sense?  Safety features are *no* substitute for intelligent, cautious 
handling of firearms.

Having said that, if I were walking into a combat zone the threat of accidental
discharge would be far less than the threat of attack and I'd be inclined to 
change my ways.  But, until things get that bad, safety first: the chance of
a failure of a safety device are very small, but the consequences can be the
greatest you'll ever face.



-- 
It's a wonderful feeling when you voted for the winner, but the time to vote for
the guy who "could win" is past: vote your conscience - Marrou/Lord in 92!
Andrew Ford INTERNET: gtephx!forda@asuvax.eas.asu.edu
            UUCP: !uunet!samsung!romed!asuvax!gtephx!forda
From: hollombe@soldev.tti.com (The Polymath)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: bullet & gasoline truck
Date: 14 Apr 92 14:31:26 GMT
Organization: The Cat Factory


In article <53103@mimsy.umd.edu> jca@crash.cts.com (John C. Archambeau) writes:
}In article <53057@mimsy.umd.edu> george@cs.purdue.edu (Michael J. George) writes:
}#In article <53029@mimsy.umd.edu>, jca@crash.cts.com (John C. Archambeau) writes:
}## 
}## It just takes one spark to ignite gasoline.  So yes, it is possible, but
}## highly unlikely with only one shot.  What will never happen is a bullet
}## igniting diesel.  Diesel ignites under compression, not a spark.
}#
}#It is quite difficult to light fluid gasoline. ...

It is, in fact, impossible.  Only the vapors will burn and only in the
presence of sufficient oxygen.  This is true of any burning substance
(though the vaporization stage may be very quick and/or unobvious).  Just
ask your local Fire Marshall.

}#... Very easy to light vapors.  Thatis why you can shoot full gas cans, trucks, barrels, etc.  But if you should
}#make a spark in vapors, look out.  And if I remember right, neither lead nor
}#brass will spark on steel, so that shouldn't be a problem.
}
}No tanker truck is filled 100% to the top of the tank.  ...
}... Shoot in the upper area of
}the tanker and you will have vapors. ...
}The top portion of the tanker will be a powder keg waiting to go off at
}any spark.

Not necessarily.  You need more than vapors.  You also need a good
vapor/oxygen mix (~14 - 15:1 is considered best for gasoline).  If the
mixture is too rich, the likely condition inside a tanker, the vapors
won't ignite, let alone explode.  Even if they did ignite, they should
blow the pressure relief valves on the tank -- that's what they're there
for -- so you'd get a fire, but not a Hollyweird special effects fireball.

BTW, it's perfectly possible to ignite diesel fuel vapors with a spark.
That isn't how diesel engines do it, but _any_ sufficient heat source
applied to the proper fuel/air mix will ignite diesel, or anything else
that burns.

}Some bullets are made of copper as well (or so I have read). ...

And some are steel jacketed.

BTW, I'm not a licensed commercial driver, but I am a licensed A&P
mechanic with a pretty fair knowledge of fuel tank maintenance and
design.

The Polymath (aka: Jerry Hollombe, M.A., CDP, aka: hollombe@polymath.tti.com)
Head Robot Wrangler at Citicorp                   Turn the rascals out!
3100 Ocean Park Blvd.   (310) 450-9111, x2483     No incumbents in '92!
Santa Monica, CA  90405 {rutgers|pyramid|philabs|psivax}!ttidca!hollombe
From: cash@convex.com (Peter Cash)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: Browning .338WM for sale
Date: 11 Apr 92 23:43:42 GMT
Organization: The Instrumentality

In article <52967@mimsy.umd.edu> sisak@pa881a.inland.com writes:
#In article <51979@mimsy.umd.edu>, spickett@orion.oac.uci.edu (Steve Pickett) writes:
## Gentlemen,

#What makes you think "GENTLEMEN" is appropriate here?

#Aren't there any female collectors out there?

Well now I'm curious: _is_ there a female firearms collector somewhere in the
world? 

-- 
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
             |      Die Welt ist alles, was Zerfall ist.     |
Peter Cash   |       (apologies to Ludwig Wittgenstein)      |cash@convex.com
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
From: jheath@fieldofdreams.npirs.purdue.edu (Jim Heath)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: .38 & .357 (Was Re: Is a .22 a humane weapon? (No.))
Date: 10 Apr 92 18:20:10 GMT
Organization: Center for Environmental and Regulatory Information Systems, Purdue University

#From article <52868@mimsy.umd.edu>, by tnev2@isuvax.iastate.edu:
# 
# ##	The 38 special got its name from the diameter of it's case.  I seem 
# ##to recall that it measures .375" which is rounded up to .38.  At the type it
# ##was introduced, it was competing against a lot of .44-.45 caliber rounds
# ##so S+W wanted to make it sound as big al possible.
# ##
# #	I believe that the ".38" designation dated back to earlier rimmed
# #  .38 rounds which had a bullet the same diameter as the case, similar to
# #  current .22 LR rounds.  When the design changed to use a bullet matching
# #  the inner diameter of the case rather than the outer diameter, they kept
# #  the .38 designation of the case, rather than changing it to .36.
# #
# #=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
# #|**I _AM_ a member of a well-regulated militia - self-regulated, that is!!!!**|
# #| Bob Boardman,Albuquerque,New Mexico - NRA LIFE, NMSSA, Zia Rifle&Pistol Club|
# #|        internet:boardman@cancer.unm.edu    bitnet:BOARDMAN@UNMB             |
# #=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
# 
# 		No argument here.  Do you know what the older caliber name 
# actually is? 
#

I believe there were at least 2, .38 Colt and .38 S&W before the
.38 special came along. 
-- 
"Land of song, said the warrior bard,           Jim Heath
Though all the world betrays thee.
One sword, at least, thy rights shall guard, (The Minstrel Boy)
One faithful harp will praise thee."         (Thomas More)
From: pauly@netcom.com (Paul Yoshimune)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: LUBES (PRELUBE?)
Date: 8 Apr 92 20:27:50 GMT
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services  (408 241-9760 guest)

I use Break-Free exclusively, and use it for both the bore and the outer
finish.  My 1911 is also parkerized, which I prefer to blued (ask me not why).

Anyway, yes, when you get a new firearm, you should completely take it down
and clean/oil it.  The pistol should be lubricated from the factory, but it
is usually with a heavy grease that will varnish if shot.  The idea here is
simply to keep your gun from rotting away while being stored.

-- 
-Paul Yoshimune [pauly@netcom.com]
From: edsr!kjs@uunet.UU.NET (Kevin Sedota)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: removing primer
Date: 10 Apr 92 02:19:03 GMT
Organization: EDS Research, Albuquerque, NM

what is the safest way to remove a live primer from a case. I was using a Lee
auto primer and one of the primers go side ways and was pressed against the 
next primer in the tool. I didn't notice it until I had seated the primer.

A friend suggested I put it in the gun and fire it. (no bullet) But I never
remember to take them to the range. would it be safe to use the decaping/sizing
die on it or would that set the thing off.

 *****************************************************************************
* #include <std/disclaimers.h>      *                  ___                    *
* (load "/usr/lisp/denials.lsp")    *       / _/    / (       Kevin Sedota    *
* COPY CPYWRITE IN COPYLIB          *      /<      /   \                      *
* compile("/usr/prolog/excuses.pl").*     /  \  /_/  ___)       kjs@edsr      *
* %INCLUDE CAVEATS                  *                                         *
* Your milage may vary.             *                                         *
*          A world which requires disclaimers has too many lawyers.           *
 *****************************************************************************
From: jpcallis@essex.ecn.uoknor.edu (James P. Callison)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: Advice on Polar Bear protection requested (no kidding!!!)
Date: 15 Apr 92 14:04:07 GMT
Organization: Engineering Computer Network, University of Oklahoma, Norman, OK

In article <53119@mimsy.umd.edu> les@ulysses.att.com (Leslie Johnson) writes:
#
#In article <52863@mimsy.umd.edu> sybok@m4-035-13.MIT.EDU (The Terminator) writes:
##You could always hit the bear with a blast of 5% Capstun and see how well
##it can chase humans it can't see, or engulf it in flames with a shotgun
##shell of DRAGON'S BREATH(tm).
#
#Or scare him to death with Termie's replica .45 :-)

Ya know, the Inuit have a special word for he who sprays bear with 5%
capstun: STOOOOPID!
Cold temperatures have this nasty habit of lessening the effects of
aerosol sprays (you remember, from Atmospheric Statics and Thermodynamics?
What? You never had that? How about freshman chemistry? with a fixed volume,
as temperature decreases, pressure decreases...). I don't know if anyone
has tested sprays like capstun for weather hardiness (I don't expect it to
have too much effect, if you keep it warm), but it's definitely a
consideration.
Also--if the bear's close enough for you to spray in the face, he doesn't
_need_ to see you--you're already within his grasp. That stuff (at least, the
Punch II I got) has an amazingly short effective range. Err...an amazingly
short range on the effective stopping-of-the-attack range; that stuff
carries a long way as a mild irritant. 
And another thing...animals seem to like the taste (my Malamute does,
anyway), so you may just be flavoring yourself for him. :-)


				James

James P. Callison       Microcomputer Coordinator        OU Law Library 
JCallison@aardvark.ucs.uoknor.edu   /\        JPCallis@uokmax.ecn.uoknor
DISCLAIMER: I'm not an engineer, but I play one at work...
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