HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: dougr@meaddata.com (Doug Ritter)
Subject: Re: being safe in the woods
Organization: Mead Data Central, Dayton OH
Date: Mon, 28 Sep 1992 17:35:51 GMT
Distribution: usa

In article <1992Sep23.205759.26113@morrow.stanford.edu> AS.MSW@forsythe.stanford.edu (Marc Whitney) writes:
>In article <Bv1rsz.8oq@usenet.ucs.indiana.edu>,
>amirza@bronze.ucs.indiana.edu (Anmar Caves) writes:
>>I generally feel safe deep in the backwoods.  I don't usually feel
>>safe at campgrounds or the like.  In the backwoods I typically see a
>>lot of people, but I don't really get seen by many anymore.  Canoing
>>is where I feel *very* exposed.
>>
>All this stuff about fearing for one's life in the backcountry:
>Where do you folks hike, anyway, Central Park?  I'm getting the
>feeling someone has been OD'ing on old videos like "Deliverance".
>Or what's the one about the demented Rambo type who s`hots everyone
>in sight.  After 20 years of hiking in California, I've never seen
>anyone who was remotely threatening.  (Just once I'ld like to see a
>bear just so I could talk about it!)  Perhaps I've been misled;
>perhaps the nuts are NOT in CA after all but have fled to the east.
>
>Perhaps being a male keeps from being aware of this "problem".
>OTOH, I've never heard of any incidents from female climbing and
>hiking acquaintances.  (Of course there are a pretty sturdy lot that
>includes a martial arts type and a couple of the others swing a
>pretty mean ice axe.  Ever think about a #11 hex twirled on the end
>a 3-foot sling?)

As we speak, there is a 'serial killer' loose in the woods of SE Ohio.
His latest victim was a hunter who had his head and hands blown off.
This may have been reported earlier in this thread, if so, hit 'n' now,
but it *is* a lot like 'Deliverance'.

Most of this guy's victims *are* men, and they *don't* see him - he shoots 
them from long range with a high-powered rifle or from ambush with a 
shotgun.  I doubt that martial arts skills would have helped any of these 
poor folks.

I'm big, mean, hairy and I smell bad - but I'm staying out of the woods
until they catch this nut.
--
===============================================================================
Douglas N. Ritter                                  Bo don't know snowmobiles!
dougr@meaddata.com
..!uunet!meaddata!dougr                          No, I'm not speaking for MDC!
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
From: HF.MMS@forsythe.stanford.edu (Mark Skubik)
Subject: Random strip-mining thoughts
Organization: Stanford University, California, USA
Date: Thu, 1 Oct 1992 22:19:05 GMT

Hi,

Regarding this strip-mining problem:

As I understand it, we own the surface rights and should
therefore be able to charge serious money for access through
our property to anyone wanting to get at the minerals below.

If true, then we can deny any profit from strip-mining without
actually denying access to the minerals.  This ought to give
pause to anyone wanting to dig up a national park.

Also, since strip-mining destroys the suface value of land,
we should be able to rationalize charging very high prices
for a miner's action in destroying our property thus denying
us our right to enjoy our property (the reason we bought it).

Else wise, why don't we just tell the mining companies to
leave our property alone and let them tunnel in from the
side if they are so eager to get at what's under our parks?

Mark
-Just another taxpayer, like you-

Opinions?  Sure, I got lots of 'em.  I got 'em for cheep
since nobody else wanted them and now I'm having a hard
time giving them away.
Xref: sparky rec.backcountry:7833 rec.climbing:3670
From: jdeifik@isi.edu (Jeff Deifik)
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
Subject: Invite to a backpack
Date: 30 Sep 92 21:18:41 GMT
Distribution: ca
Organization: USC-Information Sciences Institute

I am doing a Sierra Club backpack and I thought I would invite
rec.backcountry readers (and others) to come along. This is an I-rated
event, which means navigational skills are needed (by the leaders).

This event is not going to be a death march, but the terrain is not all
that level and there is no trail.
This route involves more route finding and is a longer and
more rugged route than other ways (This is a cross-country event after all).

OCT 3-4, 1992   SAT-SUN
I: In Search of Pine City, A Backpack. Join us in a cross-country
adventure as we aimlessly wander around searching Josuha Tree Monument
for Pine City. We will use our navigational skills to get hopelessly
lost while having a good time.  No beginners, No tigers, No mice or
other furry rodents.  Please send backpacking/cross-country experience
to Jeff Deifik.  The trip will be approximately 7 miles & 1000' gain.
Provisional leader:  Ken Sandberg, Asst: Jeff Deifik

Sorry, no guns or dogs allowed.

I have called JTree, and the temps are current around 90 degrees at 2k feet.
We will be around 4k feet, so it should be cooler. Also the weather forecasts
show the temperature dropping for this weekend. I would expect temperatures
around mid 80's.
--
	Jeff (turbo) Deifik		Internet: jdeifik@isi.edu
Phone:	(310) 822-1511 x241 work	(818) 347-3428 home
Bitnet:	jdeifik%isi.edu@cunyvm.cuny.edu	CSnet:    jdeifik%isi.edu@relay.cs.net
Uucp:	...!{harvard,rutgers,uunet,sun,ucbvax,uiucdcs,talcott}!isi.edu!jdeifik
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry,rec.travel,rec.scuba
From: privette@pippin.colorado.edu (Jeff Privette)
Subject: Re: 9/28 Kauai Update
Organization: Colorado Center for Astrodynamics Research
Date: Tue, 29 Sep 1992 01:28:00 GMT

In article <1992Sep28.224043.20603@news.Hawaii.Edu>, teshima@uhunix.uhcc.Hawaii.Edu (A. Lani Teshima) writes:

|> (On a side note, both George Bush and Bill Clinton flew to
|> Florida in the wake of Andrew. Who do WE get in Hawaii? MARILYN
|> QUAYLE, who came "on behalf of FEMA!" Could this be because our tiny
|> state of Hawaii only carries a couple of electoral votes?!!? To quote
|> Bill the Cat, "Phhhhhhbbbbbttth!!!!!")
|> 

No doubt.  I think I would prefer Bill The Cat to Marilyn Quayle.
I seriously doubt Marilyn has *ever* been without electricity, a phone,
and an American Express card, let alone food and shelter.
From: Dan Yurman <dyurman@igc.apc.org>
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
Date: 26 Sep 92 08:18 PDT
Subject: Re: Tom Brown's secrets to survival
Nf-ID: #R:1992Sep18.172833.11631@eos.arc.n:1332798781:cdp:1449600039:000:110
Nf-From: cdp.UUCP!dyurman    Sep 26 08:18:00 1992


Could someone please post the book citations for writings by
Tom Brown.? Thanks.

Dan Yurman  43N112W02 43N28
From: jac@ds8.scri.fsu.edu (Jim Carr)
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
Subject: Re: National parks to be opened to strip mining
Date: 29 Sep 92 21:48:58 GMT
Reply-To: jac@ds8.scri.fsu.edu (Jim Carr)
Distribution: usa
Organization: SCRI, Florida State University

In article <1992Sep29.195915.29617@news.uiowa.edu> jones@pyrite.cs.uiowa.edu (Douglas W. Jones,201H MLH,3193350740,3193382879) writes:
>
>The "fair" value of such rights should take into account not only the value
>of the minerals we are camping on with our parks, but also the cost of
>extraction, including the cost of environmental restoration.
>
>Strip mining, in particular, essentially destroys the surface rights to the
>land which is mined.  When the mining laws were enacted, strip mining was
>rare, and the result, for the past century, has been a preposterous
>situation where people sell the mineral rights to their land for a fraction
>of the property value, only to have a strip mine come through and completely
>destroy the property.

The situation is far worse than you might imagine. 

I have an Aunt and Uncle living in a suburb of Pittsburg.  They have 
lived in the same lovely hiltop house for at least 30 years.  A few 
years ago, they and their neighbors bought quite a bit of coal. 

You see, the mineral rights under their neighborhood were owned by a 
large company that mined coal from a deep shaft mine.  On the way in, 
they left columns of coal holding up the roof.  On the way out, they 
would remove those columns and eventually the mine shaft would collapse 
and the land above subside.  They bought the coal that is holding up 
the land they live on.  They were lucky to even have the chance! 

--
J. A. Carr                                    |  "The New Frontier of which I  
jac@gw.scri.fsu.edu                           |  speak is not a set of promises
Florida State University  B-186               |  -- it is a set of challenges."
Supercomputer Computations Research Institute |   John F. Kennedy (15 July 60)
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry,rec.travel,rec.scuba
From: teshima@uhunix.uhcc.Hawaii.Edu (A. Lani Teshima)
Subject: 9/28 Kauai Update
Organization: University of Hawaii
Date: Mon, 28 Sep 1992 22:40:43 GMT

For a while last week, residents of Hawaii were watching with a
careful eye on Hurricane Roslyn, which was headed west towards the Big
Island of Hawaii. Fortunately, it got downgraded late Friday to a
tropical storm.

The following is the update on Kauai which appeared in Saturday's
Honolulu Advertiser.

Water: 100 percent of island has tap water, but Lawai-Omao,
Wailua-Kalaheo deep well, Kahili Mountain Park systems are pending
Health Department clearance.

Electricity: Nearly seven (7) percent or 1,660 of 24,469 Kauai
Electric customers now have power.

Telephone: GTE Hawaiian Tel still has no firm numbers on how many of
its 30,000 Kauai customers have working phones. Emergency phone banks
have been set up in nine communities, with free long distance
available through October 15. Free interisland service was available
to all Kauai residents until yesterday.

Food: In most communities, at least one grocery store is open.
Military rations are being distributed and hot meals served by Red
Cross and Salvation Army at various locations, including at disaster
assistance centers.

Lihue Airport: Open to Aloha, Hawaiian and United flights 7a.m. to
9p.m. All other traffic restricted and scheduled through state
Transportation Department.

Military: Combined armed forces on the island totals 5,361. More than
1,500 are from the Hawaii Air and Army National Guard.

Disaster Assistance Centers: Seven open on Kauai.

Statewide, 12,104 applications for disaster assistance was received as
of last Wednesday, and $442,333 in Federal Emergency Mgmt Admin aid
disbursed.

(On a side note, both George Bush and Bill Clinton flew to
Florida in the wake of Andrew. Who do WE get in Hawaii? MARILYN
QUAYLE, who came "on behalf of FEMA!" Could this be because our tiny
state of Hawaii only carries a couple of electoral votes?!!? To quote
Bill the Cat, "Phhhhhhbbbbbttth!!!!!")

Aloha--
--
A. Lani Teshima (teshima@uhunix.uhcc.Hawaii.edu)       o | /_/_/ "Sea Hare"
Student, UH School of Library & Information Studies     o|<0_0>--------*
A small mind is easily filled with faith.                 \=^-| |____| | 
Blessed is a mind too small for doubt.                        \_}B   \_}B
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
From: jsp+@cs.cmu.edu (John Pieper)
Subject: Backcountry safety & sexism
Organization: School of Computer Science, Carnegie Mellon
Distribution: usa
Date: Fri, 2 Oct 1992 23:50:42 GMT



It boils down to this: nobody is safe in the backcountry alone, regardless
of sex. After you break a leg or an arm, or sprain an ankle, by yourself,
more than four hours from help, you will realize this. It doesn't matter
whether women are safer alone than men or not; nobody is safe alone.

Groups of women are just as safe as groups of men; humans preying on humans
invariably hit weak targets. If you travel in a group, somebody is bound
to be weaker than you, because there are always loonies around out there by
themselves.

The other observation I would make is the standard 90/10 rule: 90% of the
dangerous people in the backcountry are within 10 minutes of the trailhead.

I don't see how sexism is an issue. Anyone who travels alone in the
backcountry deserves whatever trouble they meet. Everyone else should be
pretty safe.
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
From: eugene@wilbur.nas.nasa.gov (Eugene N. Miya)
Subject: Re: being safe in the woods
Organization: NAS, NASA Ames Research Center, Moffett Field, CA
Date: Mon, 28 Sep 92 21:16:13 GMT
Distribution: usa

In article <1992Sep23.205759.26113@morrow.stanford.edu>
AS.MSW@forsythe.stanford.edu (Marc Whitney) writes:
>All this stuff about fearing for one's life in the backcountry:
>Where do you folks hike, anyway, Central Park?  I'm getting the
>feeling someone has been OD'ing on old videos like "Deliverance".
>Or what's the one about the demented Rambo type 

Frankly, I wonder, too.
Deliverance is a great story, a fine first novel by Poet Laurate James Dickey
but it lost something when Warner Bros. made a film, it also gained a few
good points as well.  The purpose of the story was not crime or violence.

The first Rambo film, while not as well put together as Deliverance, began
as a "sensitive" film about Vietnam era vets.  It ballooned into a series
of Uber-menschen-USA films which I have not bothered to see II and III.
Vets are not demented Rambo types.  My favorite unsung scene in the first film
is when the sheriff sits back in his chair and you see his service record
in the background.

Maybe some people need to rent Never Cry Wolf (BD [the sheriff in the 1st Rambo
film] is also in this film) or the Black Stallion.

--eugene miya, NASA Ames Research Center, eugene@orville.nas.nasa.gov
  Acting Associate Editor, Software and Publication Reviews
  Scientific Programming
  {uunet,mailrus,other gateways}!ames!eugene
Seeking Books to buy:	Bongard, Pattern Recognition
			Imhof, Cartographic Relief Presentation
			Books on or by Benjamin Whorf
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry,rec.scuba,rec.travel
From: royg@netcom.com (Roy H. Gordon)
Subject: Re: being safe in the woods
Date: Tue, 29 Sep 92 04:45:27 GMT
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services  (408 241-9760 guest) 
Distribution: usa
X-Newsreader: Tin 1.1 PL5

Eugene N. Miya (eugene@wilbur.nas.nasa.gov) wrote:
> Deliverance is a great story, a fine first novel by Poet Laurate James Dickey
> but it lost something when Warner Bros. made a film, it also gained a few
> good points as well.  The purpose of the story was not crime or violence.

Reaction to the threat and occurrence of violence (and violation) is
certainly one of the major themes of Deliverance.  I mean, what are
they delivered from?  OK, the title has multiple meanings, but
this is pretty safely one of them.  Of the four men on the trip and
the two they meet along the way, one is raped, three are killed
(two by arrows), and the other two injured, one badly.

The novel delineates to a much greater extent the effect of the experience
on the survivors than does the movie.

In many ways Deliverance provides a back country exemplification of one
of Hitchcock's recurring major themes:  the innocent and naive protagonist
thrust into a set of deadly circumstances in which he cannot go for help
(e.g., to the police) but must rely on his own wherewithal and ability
in circumstances foreign to his normally placid and safe life;  the
undercutting of complaceny towards one's environment.

This notion, that if threatened by others in the backcountry you
may well be isolated and cut off and really in *danger*, has motivated
much of the discussion in this and some other threads, it seems to me.

Getting back to the book...

Of course, the eroticism of climbing, and I assume of the outdoors in
general by implication, is also present.  I still remember the passage
in the novel when he's climbing the cliff in the moonlight and he's
right against it and starts talking about his making moves more intimate
with it than ever with his wife (or something to that effect--I don't
have the book in front of me and haven't looked at it in many years).

Dickey's vigorous but poetic prose style makes for interesting reading.
To me John Voigt and Ned Beatty stand out in the movie, as do the two
truly terrifying, to me anyway, back country people.  Dickey is great
in his small role as sheriff.  But I guess this is pretty much digressing...

				-- Roy
From: kjm@buc.edu.au (Kevin Moore)
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
Subject: Re: The winner is...
Date: 5 Oct 92 01:49:50 GMT
Organization: Physics Department - Ballarat University College
NNTP-Posting-Host: 141.132.16.8

In article <01010064.f3j4j7@titipu.resun.com> ed@titipu.resun.com (Edward Reid) writes:

>Why Greg, you heathen!  How could anyone possibly object to the dulcet tones
>of Cumbaya?  Listen closely now

>   Cumbaya Lord Cumbaya
>   Cumbaya Lord Cumbaya
>   Cumbaya Lord Cumbaya
>   Oh Lord Cumbaya

>There, now wasn't that nice?  Wasn't that ... no, Greg ... oh all right Greg
>look in the pocket on the back of the seat in front of you ...

>BTW, it doesn't really matter how spell it.  Supposedly, "cumbaya" is a
>dialectical corruption of "come by here".  Anyway, I find it difficult to be
>offended by anyone singing quiet songs with their own voices.  Certainly not if
>the other choices involve boom boxes or shouting matches.

Eventually, the batteries in a boombox go flat, and sooner or later that 
shouting match will lapse into an icy silence. But those sunday school kids 
can keep it going all night. And even if they stop, the blasted thing takes 
over your brain and keeps you awake anyway. It renders you incapable of 
summoning the intellectual power required to operate your swiss army knife 
correctly, thereby rendering you unable to eat or drink, until such time as 
you collapse in a heap. I'll take Lynard Skynard any day of the week for 
preference. 

Cumbaya is the Godel phrase of the human brain.

******************************************************************************
The reason is that the program was written in  	*	Kevin Moore
BASIC, a sort of computer baby-talk.            *     kjm@buc.edu.au
                              Richard Dawkins	*
******************************************************************************
From: jreece@sousa.intel.com (John Reece)
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
Subject: Re: Freeze dried food??  What else?
Date: 28 Sep 92 15:33:01 GMT
Reply-To: jreece@sousa.intel.com
Distribution: na
Organization: Intel - Information Technologies

In article <1992Sep22.202404.2916@scott.skidmore.edu>, pvonk@scott.skidmore.edu (Pierre VonKaenel) writes:

> 2)  What else - anyone have ideas on good dinners that don't require
>     much work, heavy food, refrigeration?

Fantastic Foods brand dried chili and refried beans from the health food
store are actually pretty good in their own right.

Italian style pasta.  These sauces keep and work pretty good:

      1> Basil pesto, topped with extra chopped walnuts and loads of
         Parmesan cheese.  If you keep the container topped off with
         olive oil it won't turn black.

      2> Pepper sauce.  Saute some garlic, dried parsley and a pinch
         of red pepper flakes for about a minute in olive oil.  

      3> White clam or shrimp sauce from a small can of clams.  Just 
         warm the clams/shrimp & juice in a frying pan, add garlic, 
         chopped parsley, and a few spoonfulls of dried milk.
      
      4> Tomato sauce from dried tomato soup mix, with extra basil and
         garlic. Use some of the drained-off water to reconstitute the
         soup mix.  Sometimes I don't drain off all the water and just
         dump the ingredients into the pasta pot.  You can also home
         dry regular tomato sauce.  This tastes much better.  Non-chunky
         sauce works best for home-drying.
 
      5> Alfredo sauce.  Reconstitute dried milk with somewhat less 
         water than usual, and combine with melted butter or margarine.
         and Parmesan cheese.  I don't favor this too much in cold weather,
         because I find cheesy/creamy pasta gross if it cools off
         before I can eat it up. 

      6> A few spoonfuls of french onion soup mix and olive oil also
         make a good pasta sauce.

Asian style pasta.  

      1>  Sprinkle a few drops of sesame oil and soy sauce over
          Italian or Asian style noodles.

      2>  Thai peanut sauce.  I don't have the recipe handy, but
          it's basically peanut butter, plus honey, sesame oil, soy
          sauce, and red pepper.  Maybe ginger and garlic as well.
 
Angel hair pasta, or fresh, is a lot easier to cook right at high
altitudes.

-- 
John Reece			"This lifeboat is full"	
Not an Intel spokesman 			- Swiss saying in WWII
From: Gen.M.Kanai@dartmouth.edu (Gen M. Kanai)
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
Subject: HELP: plastic mountaineering boots
Date: 27 Sep 92 02:14:28 GMT
Organization: Dartmouth College, Hanover, NH
X-Posted-From: InterNews1.0a5@newshost.dartmouth.edu

Please help me make my decision on what plastic boots I should get.

I've heard that the Lowa Denali's liner takes years to dry out.
I've heard that Asolo's leak water.
I've heard that Scarpas are not great.
I can get Koflachs at wholesale, but they dont really grab me.

I like the Asolo liner (velcro, not laced).  Like the Lowa's rubber
rand.  Koflachs are decent, but not great as far as I've heard

Please e-mail or post any experiences you've had with any of these or
any other plastic mountaineering boots.  My needs are pretty universal.
 Ice-climbing, glacier traverse (general hiking), keeping my feet warm,
etc.  They need to be all-around good boots.

thanks in advance,

e-mail to gen.kanai@dartmouth.edu
From: psilsbee@ccwf.cc.utexas.edu (Peter Silsbee)
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
Subject: Re: Bear bags?  Huh?
Date: 5 Oct 92 14:40:42 GMT
Organization: The University of Texas at Austin, Austin TX

In article <1992Sep30.143117.8186@infonode.ingr.com> lester@naomi.b23b.ingr.com writes:
>If you kick a grizzly in the butt, you will climb a tree.

Don't you mean, you will wish you had climbed a tree?

--Peter
From: frankpit@eng.umd.edu (Bernard Adrian Frankpitt)
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
Subject: Re: Wolf attacks, HA. (was re: Wolves: ho to cope with ?)
Date: 6 Oct 92 14:38:55 GMT
Reply-To: frankpit@eng.umd.edu (Bernard Adrian Frankpitt)
Distribution: usa
Organization: College of Engineering, Maryversity of Uniland, College Park

In article <BvoCDu.8J2.1@cs.cmu.edu>, jsp+@cs.cmu.edu (John Pieper) writes:
> 
> 
> 
> However, there has been no documented case of a non-rabid wolf attacking
> non-infant humans in the entire history of the country, back to the
> 1600's. 

Perhaps this just indicates that when wolves attack humans they do a good 
job of cleaning up the remains. :-)

Bernie
 
===============================================================================
      /\
     /  \     __________   
    /    \___/__        \     _
   /  '`         \___/   \___/ \             Bernie Frankpitt
  /   '`                    /   \            University of Maryland
 /    '`                   /     \           College Park             
/    /   \________________/       \          frankpit@src.umd.edu
                                   \ 
       Aorangi = Mt Cook            \   
===============================================================================