HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: anil k goel <akgoel@neumann.waterloo.edu>
Subject: Re: **Female Pakstudent and burqa
Organization: University of Waterloo
Date: Tue, 7 Apr 1992 05:17:49 GMT

In article <92097.05203832JMVQG@CMUVM.CSV.CMICH.EDU> 32JMVQG@CMUVM.CSV.CMICH.EDU (Mahfooz Ahmed Jafry) writes:

Jafry Mian,
	Salam Alaikum and Ram, Ram!!

I did give a reference in my post, namely Anwar Syed's book. Have you read
this book yourself? Syed points to Maududi's writings in the early 1940s to
show that indeed Maulana Maududi was opposed to the Pakistan Movement, to
the Muslim League and to its leaders including M. A. Jinnah. To make your
job easier, I have posted excerpts in another article titled "Maulana
Maududi and the Pakistan Movement". I am sure, you will be able to find the
writings of Maududi that Syed has referenced.

   Why you did not ask me ?  Being an Indian, you do not know that
   this allegation stands for the last 45 years by opponents of Maudoodi 
   ding ministers (like Kausar Niazi), prime minister (Z.A. Butto, Benazir), presi
   dent (Ayub Khan), governors (all), no body can proved this and or remained able
    to bring a single references.  In fact he was in favor of creation of Pakistan
   and he said many times that if a single yard is created in the name of Allah he
    would be first one to migrate to that land.

Well, I hope you will excuse me if I refuse to just take your word for it.
If what you say is indeed true, it should be very easy for you to point to
publications of Maududi in the aftermath of March 23, 1940 (when the
Pakistan plan was announced by the Muslim League in Lahore) which show that
the Maulana supported the creation of Pakistan as proposed by the Muslim
League. I have already posted excerpts from Syed's book that show that he
vehemently opposed both the plan and the League during 1941 and 1942.

   Being an Indian you are ill-informed and try once more.  But
   remember this time you have to make some false references yourself.  So please
   go ahead and bang your head on computer scree for searching refrence to lay dow
   n maudoodi but remember from india you and from Pakistan many like you :

Well, I sure do appreciate your kind words and the diagnosis of I being
ill-informed as a consequence of my Indian nationality, your Honor! Please
be a little magnanimous and inform me better by pointing me to the oceans
of information that you seem privy to.

-anil
From: zafir@unssun.nevada.edu (Zia Zafir)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.pakistan
Subject: Re. Fiaz's poetry
Date: 12 Apr 92 23:36:17 GMT
Reply-To: zafir@unssun.nevada.edu (Zia Zafir)
Organization: University of Nevada, Reno

Newsgroups: soc.culture.pakistan
Subject: Re: ....waqt, parhai, PERT, computer..etc (synopsis.....
Summary: 
Expires: 
Reply-To: zafir@unssun.UUCP (Zia Zafir)
Followup-To: 
Distribution: usa
Organization: University of Nevada-Reno
Keywords: 

In article <1992Apr8.170909.16629@athena.mit.edu> anajam@athena.mit.edu (ADIL NAJAM) writes:
>
>	
>	woh loug buhat khush qismat thay
>	jo iishq ko kaam sumajhtay thay
>	ya kaam say aashqi kartay that
>	
>	humm jeetay jee masroof rahay
>	kuch iishq kiya, kuch kaam kiya
>	iishq, kaam kay aaRRay aata raha
>	aur kaam, iishq ko uljhaata raha
>	.....na iishq hua, na kaam hua
>	
>	aakhir meiN hum nay taang aaa kar
>	donouN ko adhoora choRR diya
>
>
>-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
>ADIL [sitam ki rasmaiN buhat theiN laikin, na theiN teri anjuman say pehlay
>      sazaa khata-e-nazar say pehlay, aataab jurm-e-sukhan say pehlay ] NAJAM
>		 		      ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>-----------------------------------------------------------------------------


Since I have been referenced, here it goes

	wo log buhat khush qismat thay
	jo ishq ko kaam samajhtay thay
	yaa kaam say aashqi kartay thay
	hum jeetay ji masroof rahay
	kuchh ishq kiya kuchh kaam kiya
	kaam ishq kay aaRay aata raha
	aur ishq say kaam ulajhta raha
	phir aakhir tang aakar hum nay
	donoN ko adhoora chhoR diya

			Faiz (1976) from shaam-e-shehr-e-yaaraaN

Adil you got most of it right.  I couldn't remember the line 

	na ishq hua  na kaam hua

And I also checked my copy of nuskha hae wafa and couldn't find that
line over there.    

Zia Zafir
Organization: Central Michigan University
Date: Friday, 10 Apr 1992 07:33:48 EDT
From: Mahfooz Ahmed Jafry <32JMVQG@CMUVM.CSV.CMICH.EDU>
Newsgroups: soc.culture.pakistan
Subject: Re:Hum to hain perdes main

Salam Alaikum :  Woh moti moti chappalon say  .....

       Somebody made me laughing ...  Anyhow for Adil Najam (from old stock)

                   Dekha hilale eid to aiya teriya khayyal
                   ....................................... (I forget)

                   Wahi marhale washi silsilay wahi fasley wahi manzilain
                   magar apne apne muqam pai kabhi ham juda kabhi woh juda
From: cczaziz@unicorn.nott.ac.uk (Zahid Aziz)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.pakistan
Subject: Iqbal and the Ahmadiyya Movement
Date: 8 Apr 92 11:18:25 GMT
Organization: Cripps Computing Centre, University of Nottingham
Originator: cczaziz@unicorn

I am grateful to Shahid Masud (article 15688) for giving us the text
of Iqbal's statement about the Qadianis. However, before our Sunni
brethren start rejoicing at Iqbal's condemnation of the concept of a
"Promised Messiah", they should stop to consider that all his
criticism about the expectation of a Messiah applies EQUALLY to the
belief that Jesus himself is going to return to this world. His
criticism cuts BOTH ways.

Let them consider his following words:

     "The concept of Magian culture, according to modern research,
     includes cultures associated with Zoroastrianism, Judaism, Jewish
     Christianity, Chaldean and Sabean religions. To these
     creed-communities the idea of the continuity of prophethood was
     essential, and consequently they lived in a state of constant
     expectation. ...

     ... idea of the continuity of the spirit of Messiah, are so
     absolutely Jewish that the movement can easily be regarded as a
     return to early Judaism. The idea of the continuity of the spirit
     of Messiah belongs more to Jewish mysticism than to positive
     Judaism. ...

     We do not find it [the term "Promised Messiah"] in early Islamic
     religious and historical literature. This remarkable fact is
     revealed by Professor Wensinck's "Concordance of the traditions
     of the Holy Prophet", which covers no less than eleven
     collections of the traditions and three of the earliest
     historical documents of Islam. One can very well understand the
     reason why early Muslims never used this expression. The
     expression did not appeal to them probably because they thought
     that it implied a false conception of the historical process."

--------------------

Iqbal condemns as un-Islamic, and as originating from the Magian and
other religions, the expectation that a Messiah will come. If this
view is applied consistently, then it is also un-Islamic to be in
expectation of the coming of Jesus himself. Aren't those people also
in expectation of the Messiah? For them Jesus is the "Promised
Messiah", i.e. the Messiah whose coming has been promised to them by
the Holy Prophet Muhammad.

Both Ahmadis and the (majority of) other Muslims believe that the
coming of the Messiah has been promised in Islam. The difference is
that the latter consider it to be the coming of the same person Jesus,
while the former interpret it as the coming of a Muslim in the
likeness of Jesus.

Perhaps those who have been telling us on this network that Jesus will come
will now comment on Iqbal's views.

Zahid Aziz.
From: sjahang@engws7.ic.sunysb.edu (Shahryar Jahangir)
Subject: Post that article again
Originator: sjahang@engws7.ic.sunysb.edu
Organization: State University of New York at Stony Brook
Date: Wed, 15 Apr 1992 01:26:07 GMT


Adil,
	I really liked the virus article you put on the net.
Unfortunately, I wasnt able to save it. So if have that file
some where in you directory, post it it again would ya.

			Shahryar.

P.S Remember ICB (Islamabad)...
	Hope that rings a few bells.

-- 


	" AND THUS WE HAVE COMMUNICATED ! "

 ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
* So said the wise man of Mt. Sickinthehead while sitting on a  *
* toadstool covered with smelly green stuff, picking his nose   *
* with a lizards nail.					        *
 ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

		Translated from the ancient toungue "Confusingish"
		by Shahryar Jahangir.
From: khant@topaz.ucq.edu.au
Newsgroups: soc.culture.pakistan
Subject: For Qadianis and especially for nabeel
Date: 12 Apr 92 14:30:33 AET
Organization: University of Central Queensland, Australia



My deer Nabeel could you send me the answer that why the population of Muslims

Is decreasung instead of increasing.  If you are correct musalim than the

population of islam is very few, fewer than the time of (wesal) ofMuhammad 

(P.B.U.H). While it should have been increasing.


Why your Hazoor(Naoozo billah toba) has been a trouble for muslims since

the day he claimed that he is a (false) prophet(Noozo Billah Toba).  If he was

a real prophet then he would have brought happiness (Rahmat)for the muslims not

troubles (Zahmat).  If he was a (Naoozo billah toba) prophet then every one

would have accepted him as a prophet like every one will recognise Hazrat Essa

Alah-e-salam  in the very first second of his arrival and offer him to lead

the pray(Imamat) and every one will be very happy instead of argueing him

according to hadith. Any false claims from (crazy) people will not be accepted

like, it has been happening, as quite a few time people have claimed of being

Hazarat Mehdi Alah-e-salam but failed to prove themself like "Mirza Gulam

Qadiani", if they were correct then they did not have to pursu.  As Allah

has said that he will take care of his prophets and keep them save from any

sine.  Allah will also make his "Umat" understan and help them in recognisng

the truthness of his prophet like he will do in case of Hazarat Essa

Alah-e-salam.

Prophet Always brings happeness for the muslims.
From: memon@acsu.buffalo.edu (Naveed S. Memon)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.pakistan
Subject: Eid: is it just for the muslims?
Date: 6 Apr 92 09:56:21 GMT
Distribution: na
Organization: UB

From: 32JMVQG@CMUVM.CSV.CMICH.EDU (Mahfooz Ahmed Jafry)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.pakistan
Subject: 'Ham agai to garmia bazar dekhna'

>Salam Alaikum :  'Ham Aagai to garmie bazar dekhna'

       >Eid Mubarak to muslims only.  I do not know why Ummnoor is extending Eid
 >greetings ?  Whether he is a muslim ?  In Eid's hama hami, he started counting
 >himself among muslims ? Ch khoob ?  Baske mushkil hai her ek kam ka asan huna,
>yani Qadiyani ka musulman hoona, further more, ummnoor sent me Eid Mubarak thro
>ugh e-mail, I need help from Brothers like Murad Mirza, Jamal Mubrak and Irfan
>Hyder that what I do in response ?  Eid is restricted to muslims only but ummno
>or and Qadiyanese 'phir purshishe jarahat dil ku chala hai ishq' .... please he
>lp me, help me, my sheikh said, no and no, do not say Eid Mubrak to Qadiyani,,w
>hat I do now :  Can anobody complete this :

             >'Guunchai na shagufata ko door say mat dekha ke yun
                       >.................................             Ghalib


May Allah in his infinite wisdom, bestow upon you his kindness, for you bring
shame to your religion by excluding a fellow human being from sharing the
happiness of Eid. 






In utter disgust,

Your ex-brother


SoDhal Ramachandani
From: 3040_3744@uwovax.uwo.ca
Newsgroups: soc.culture.pakistan
Subject: Re: Qadian: New Aspects reply
Date: 6 Apr 92 15:40:13 EST

In article <!vf+1W=@engin.umich.edu>, jamal@caen.engin.umich.edu (Jamal Mubarak) writes:
> In article <1992Mar30.231435.1132@uwovax.uwo.ca> 3040_3744@uwovax.uwo.ca writes:
>>In article <text.701993394@alfred.ccs.carleton.ca>, Wessiah (Son of Woman) writes:
>>
>>
>>> interpreted the word Khatam as you do?
>>
>>look Arabic Dictionary or take some help from Arabic professor of your
>>University.
> 
> Pray, what dictionary is this?  One which does not exist?  Mr Noor and
> Mr Rana have already backed off.  Why don't you back off too?

I did't know that you are such an ignorant that you don't even know the meaning
of dictionary. If you need help go to the library and ask them about Arabic
dictionary I am sure they would have it, Otherwise just ask some one from any
Arab country to send you a copy of Arabi Lughat such as Lisan or Mufridat.
I hope it will help you. If I will tell you some meanings from the dictionaries
which I have you may not beleive it as  usual. So its better for you to have
your own copy.
Noor and Rana Nabeel are not backed off. Its just your stburness which makes
every one feel like talkings to stones rather than any sensible humanbeing.
M.Hameed A. Munawar
    
> 
> Jamal [the entomological etymologist] Mubarak
Xref: sparky soc.culture.pakistan:6392 soc.culture.bangladesh:2370 soc.culture.indian:14208
From: merchant@davidsys.com
Newsgroups: soc.culture.pakistan
Subject: Re: Women and Burqa: Analyzing the recent discussion
Date: 11 Apr 92 14:00:32 PST
Distribution: world
Organization: DAVID Systems Inc, Sunnyvale CA

In article <ku7phtINN42i@pageboy.cs.utexas.edu>, hyder@cs.utexas.edu (Syed Irfan Hyder) writes:
> 
> In article <1992Apr9.014504.10785@sarah.albany.edu> 
> 	ys3359@thor.albany.edu (Yazmasterj) writes:
> 
>>
>>	The only reason I posted an article about women and hijab
>>	was due to other articles I had seen on the subject.  I just
>>	wanted to clarify a few things about the vagueness of the
>>	source of hijab.  For those who would like to get a feminist
>>	perspective on the status of women in Islam, I recommend
>>	*The Veil and the Male Elite* by Fatima Mernissi.  If I could

Thank you for the recommendation.

>>	read 2 books by Maulana Maudoodi to get a view of the other side
>>	of the argument about hijab, I doubt those who want a
>>	balanced perspective on hijab and women would want to dismiss
>>	this book.  
[...]

It is nice to get a balanced perspective.  

> 
> As I said in my earlier posting I was researching this issue. My
> mind as to the validity and/or the limits of hijab are not already
> made up. I will be most happy to see your reference. I try my
>>	I have been involved in many discussions on the status of women
>>	and am in fact currently involved in an e-mail discussion 
>>	on the subject.  I really don't want a serious discussion
>>	directed towards me.  
> 
> No one is directing the discussion towards any one, particularly.
> I never try to do that. Even where I do have to give references.
> I am confident that non-serious people will leave the field and we
> will be able to keep the discussion to the point and impersonal.
[...]

Both your veiwpoints have been most enlightining.

> No one can force any one to do any thing against their will,
> especially when it concerns the "principles". Now that you
> have mentioned your back ground I have this to say
> about my mother. The biggest influence
> on my life has been my "mother" (who, by the way, doesn't take
[...]
> I have yet to make a real serious decision of my life without
> my mother's advice! I am honoured and previliged to have
> her for my guidance.
> 
> 	I am proud to present to all of you the personality of
> my mother  without whose contributions I would have been nothing.

It is a pleasure.  

> 
> 
> Proud to be her son
> 
> Syed Irfan Hyder
> 

I know that my own mother's influence, with the help of Allah, have been
a guidance to my footsteps of where I am today.  Proud to be her daughter,
-Rukhsana Merchant
From: fmbutt@mrbt.sw.stratus.com (Farooq Butt)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.pakistan,soc.culture.indian
Subject: Desi presence in Atlanta?
Date: 15 Apr 92 23:17:06 GMT
Followup-To: soc.culture.pakistan
Organization: Stratus Computer, Software Engineering


A friend of mine from Pakistan is contemplating attending Georgia Tech
and was curious as to the desi presence in the Atlanta area.  So what
do I tell him ? Is there a large South-Asian community there ?  Can
one obtain desi food etc. ? Are there Pakistani/Indian community
organizations that are active ? Do they sponsor community events?  I
would be particularly interested to hear from the net.atlanta.desis
about life in Jaaaaaawjiah :-) Please feel free to email me directly
as I don't wish to bore the net at large...


Thanks

fmb


-- 
Standard High-Tech Disclaimer: NOTHING  in the above article has the slightest 
relationship to reality. If any reality correspondences are found, please 
notify me IMMEDIATELY. Any threats, abuse or stupidity of any kind is purely 
UNintentional. These are MY Opinions NOT my employer's.
From: rathoret@sumax.seattleu.edu (Tariq R. Rathore)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.pakistan
Subject: Test posting, please ignore.
Date: 9 Apr 92 22:10:14 GMT
Organization: Seattle University, Seattle WA

Testing.

Newsgroups: soc.culture.pakistan
From: nadeem@maccs.dcss.mcmaster.ca (Kamran Aftab)
Subject: Re: 2 + 2 = 5
Organization: McMaster University, Hamilton, Ontario, Canada.
Date: Fri, 10 Apr 1992 18:54:13 GMT

In article <1992Apr8.110823.30003@davidsys.com> khan@davidsys.com writes:
>  If you add two plus two and it equals four in
>your mind, but then supposing you find that
>Islam says that two plus two equals five, then
>you better go with Islam, because in the end
>when your perception of this universe is allowed
>to improve, you will find that 2 + 2 = 5!
>

It simply means that you have blind faith in Islam .... which is no good!
Because then you can never justify your beliefs on  a rational basis .....
what if your forefathers did have same kind of "blind faith " in 
their previous religion?  would they have changed into Muslims?  guess not!

Or is the  rule   ....  if you are a non-muslim .. .. you should not have 
blind faith in your religion ... but once you become a muslim ... you should
have blind faith  .... (which doesn't make sense, since one who adopts a new
religion cannot have blind faith in the new religion ..... unless one is really
impressed by a miracle or really scared of it ... or something like that)

And "+" is  a human creation, is it not? ... so how come any divine power
can overrule that?  hey ... call it something else if want to change it ... but
addition is my creation and this is the way it works!  .....

>  Thus, God wants to check if you trust Him.
>This is the whole story of this world. 
>It is the ultimate illusion, created to test
>a human being's imaan.
>

And what to get out of it???



-- 
Kamran Aftab 				Stop! before you press that "r" (or R),
aftab@mech.eng.mcmaster.ca		<------- that's my e-mail address!
Newsgroups: soc.culture.pakistan
From: mirza@sce.carleton.ca (Murad A. Mirza)
Subject: CONTROVERSY KHATAM
Organization: Carleton University
Date: Sun, 12 Apr 1992 21:12:45 GMT

assalam alaikum

since QDs interpret Khatam as "START" therefore controversy khatam! immpossible,
unless *@#$$!*&^%$#.

anyway, lets look at the real!real! story behind khatam.

KHATAM?!!!

MIRZA as a kid liked half-boiled eggs, when one egg was finished he used to
look at his mom and say KHATAM and his cute little face became a ?, poor
mother said 'Nahin Baita' and brought him one more half-boiled egg.

(Only the British knew this story), MIRZA's relatives and friends only
used to hear this word KHATAM and used to see a ? on his cute face.

As the time went on his love for one more half-boiled egg became an obsession,
and his face a permanent ?.

On his deathbad what MIRZA had in mind was one more half-boiled egg as he said
KHATAM! the people looking on saw the ? the British saw their chance (as they
knew the original story) and told the people that KHATAM did not mean what it
means but it mean't what it did not mean.

So, the SadaLoh (simple minded) people got totally inverted by what is not meantby meaning of KHATAM, and started following the simple explanation of Brits.

Instead of a wreath, therefore, please place a half-boiled egg at the head-stonewhenever you get a chance to visit MIRZA's gravesite.

from MIRZA's personal cute little diary.
Newsgroups: soc.culture.pakistan,soc.culture.indian
From: memon@acsu.buffalo.edu (Naveed Siraj Memon)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.pakistan
Subject: Re Man and success.
Date: 9 Apr 92 07:55:13 GMT
Distribution: na
Organization: UB

From: obaidr@bullet.ecf (OBAID ARIF)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.pakistan
Subject: Man and Success---a story


			>MAN AND SUCCESS

>"But what then is Success?" pondered the 'successful one' aloud,
>with an empty look in his eyes, disgruntled.

>"Realising and living the truth-and always questioning
>'success'-- that is Success!" stated the colleague.



But crux of the matter was probably oversimplified by the unsuccessful
colleague. What he identifies as success is perhaps a relatively personal
interpretation of it. He is equating contentment with success. And the
characters seem to perceive their social status in the context of economic 
mobility rather than the higher goals of being true to oneself and the ones 
around them.  Well atleast that is the basis of their disagreement. But you
would hardly find the upwards mobile individual disgruntled at facing the
other side of the picture. They in general avoid moral self assessment. The 
mobility sweeps them to a level that selfishness is really not too obvious and
they surely would not agree that the mobility was attributed to it.       






Well that's all I had in mind. Got to go home. Its early morning. If success
comes my way, I'll shove the people out of my way and grab it. Cause 
my cold empty apartment and one expired bottle of milk in the refrigerator
equates to an existance that only makes me envy the successful man and pity his
self righteous unsuccessful colleague.

 




Naveed.
Newsgroups: soc.culture.pakistan,soc.culture.indian,soc.culture.bangladesh
From: narayana@psuvax1.cs.psu.edu (Kuram T Narayana)
Subject: Re: Yet more excerpts
Organization: Penn State Computer Science
Date: Tue, 14 Apr 1992 15:44:39 GMT

Arun Gupta seems to have predetermined that a person employed
at Aligarh Muslim University has the freedom to speak
independently of the charter of the university. When I
pointed out the employment of the author of the first 
excerpt, it was done as an issue in addition to the
muslim identity issue that the excerpt explcitly refers to.
It is this identity that I questioned. Had I not questioned
the same, the thread of discussion would have been on the lines,
``ya! why can't we support a separate muslim political
identity in India?'' In stead the discussion is now confined
to the law and order issue of communal violence, which is what 
it should be. Arun Gupta seems to imply that people on the
other side of the spectrum (those that do not belong to his ilk)
are incapable of thinking! No! we do think, think with concern
for the community! But we also think about the motives for
such posts!

The problem with Arun Gupta's posts is that it does not anger
any of the Hindus. Actually it should not, because hindus
are in a position to rub of such inuendo! But what Arun Gupta
ignores (and patetntly does so) is a muslim who practices
his islam like any other hindu does of his religion. That is
his islam is something personal for him. He ponders, ``Why is 
it my religion is being footballed in this political way?'' And,
``What are these liberals upto in this political footballing of islam?''
...kt