From: sanders@iitmax.iit.edu (Greg Sanders)
Newsgroups: soc.religion.eastern
Subject: Re: Why meditate?
Date: 9 Sep 92 19:45:45 GMT
Organization: Illinois Institute of Technology

It strikes me that some of what Lorenzo Farris wrote in the article
that I comment on below just doesn't ring true for me.  Perhaps it
will ring true for others.  So, this set of comments is about how
things seem to me from my experience.  The comments are my personal
view, and should not be taken to be intended as otherwise.  Perhaps
I am perversely misreading Lorenzo's words.

In article <1992Sep8.183320.3176@cco.caltech.edu> 
... farris@ruhets.rutgers.edu (Lorenzo Farris) 
... responding to Tawit Chitsomboon <fstawit@icomp01.lerc.nasa.gov> writes:
>
>  [ . . . ]     Even if you are
>in the presence of an enlightened master, what indication do you
>really have that you are progressing in your meditation.  That some
>guy you think is enlightened tells you so?  Only you can measure your
>progress.

Significant "progress" will become apparent to anyone with experience who 
has ongoing real contact with you.  It's not only you who can see progress.
Significant progress really cannot be hidden.

>            If you are progressing in your practise, your life is
>enhanced, and you experience more joy in your life.   [ . . . ]
>        Every difficulty in practise and
>life becomes an opportunity to develop deeper understanding.  When
>experiencing joy and bliss, this is an opportunity to push a little
>harder and understand where this joy and bliss originate.   [ . . . ]
>In my post I said that the measure of progress, at least for me, is whether
> I am happi_er_ .  Not happy. Happier.  There must be upwards progress.

Consider progress following from meditation as a winding river.  Progress
is easy to see (and absolutely inevitable) over a year but invisible over 
a few days.  It's quite standard that when you start seriously meditating
you are shining a bright light into previously unobserved areas of your
personality and it will all get very messy and painful for quite some time
to be seeing yourself so clearly (shadows are deepest in direct sunlight).
How messy, how painful, and how long varies, but most people are clearly
happier and have greater joy in life by the time they have meditated
regularly for a year.  Faith, persistence, and the simple decision IN ADVANCE
to just go on with your practice regularly for, say at least three months,
is important.  Eventually you do get to where you look back at the
preceding years of your life, hit your forehead with the heel of your
hand, and say, "wow, I could have had a V-8." (so to speak)   :-)

> If I am at the same level of happiness that I was at yesterday, then
>yeah, I'm happy, but I'm not progressing in my practise.

Yesterday!!??  This is too short a time frame to see your progress.
If you are happier than yesterday, that's unimportant.  You WILL
have days of continual blahs.  I suggest looking at where you were
a month ago, or better three months ago. Judge HOW you do the practice 
(meaning to decide what to do, not meaning "I'm doing this well" or
"I'm doing this badly").  But don't judge the results of practice.
It may take great faith to not judge, but if you JUST do the practice
(without judging) it will be more effective and progress will be greater. 
Doing your meditation practice with mind divided between doing it and
judging it is a vicious tar pit.  (Ditto for living life, actually).
Newsgroups: soc.religion.eastern