From: buis@buengc.bu.edu (Biomed Dept I.S.L.)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.greek,soc.culture.yugoslavia,soc.culture.bulgaria
Subject: Re: Serbo-Croatian and Greco-Bulgarian "stuff"...
Date: 4 Oct 92 00:56:05 GMT
Reply-To: buis@buengc.bu.edu (Lou Buis)
Followup-To: soc.culture.greek,soc.culture.yugoslavia,soc.culture.bulgaria
Organization: College of Engineering, Boston University, Boston, MA, USA

In article <92277.172939PXP111@psuvm.psu.edu> PXP111@psuvm.psu.edu writes:
>
>You have been around for quite some time to understand that  YOUR
>proposition would be   u n a c c e p t a b l e  by the Greeks for
>a bunch of reasons out of which I will stretch two:
>--> Your sentence makes no sense in the  "Greek vocabulary" since
>    Macedonia is NOT..." Greece + (something else)."

	Andronicos, I really have a lot of respect for you based on your
	postings, but this one is a disaster. Is this the same person
	who wrote the eloquent articles on Macedonia ?

	You know VERY WELL that Macedonia is NOT only in Greece, but also
	in Bulgaria and the Republic of Macedonia !!! Why are you 
	trying to present yourself as ignorant? 

	If your argument is that the state of "Old Macedonia" was covering
	only the teritory of nowdays Aegean Macedonia, than too bad. You know
	that that is not true. It was not exacly the same, but slightly 
	bigger, althoght not as much as the three parts of Macedonia today.

	But, in the name of God, what is the relevance of the frontiers of
	Macedonia 2000 years ago, to those of today ?!?!? Do you know how 
	much they have changed only during the Alexander the Grat time? 
	And even after that, for the last 20 centuries. 

	Why the teritory called Macedonia nowdays has to be the same 
	as that 2000 years ago? What was known as Serbia 1000 years ago,
	doesn't coincident with what is known as Serbia today. Or many 
	other countries - you name it.

	Things are changing, also the borders of states or regions. Also,
	you cannot ignore the presence of Slavs in Macedonia for 14 centuries.
        The Republic of Macedonia is not a resurection of the Alexander the 
	Grat Macedonia, so any comparasons from both sides (the Greek or 
	Macedonian) is ridicoulos. 
	

>    So,  Mr.Pavlovic  who is a very eloquent speaker and wants to
>    pass himself across would never write something that his par-
>    ticular audience wouldn't understand...

	Ha, ha, ha, really a good joke ! Do you refere here to his 
	postings from ultra-nationalistic magazine "Pogledi", or to
	the articles regarding the Serbian love for the Greeks
	"Efharisto Ellada" (known as "brow-nosing" among my Greek friends)
	Andronicos, there much more eloquent Serbian speakers that 
	you can side with, no need for this. But, ok, I'll get it as
	a joke.	

>    Should Milan ever imagine to write what you (and other Bulga-
>    rians probably) propose,  his Greek friends  would infer that
>    the fellow netter wants to divide  Northern Greece between...
>    Greece and Serbia ! ! !   :-)

	See the text above! There are several parts of Macedonia!
	
	Same as the people from the Republic of Macedonia that
	should not have a unique right to the name of Macedonia,
	the Greeks should not have it, either.


>--> YOUR proposition  (and not Milan's)  can very well be percei-
>    ved as highly  disingenuous "friend",  for it clearly implies
>    that Greece entertains military plans of "some" intervention;
>    and considered (in an indefinite point in the past)  an inva-
>    sion scenario! (Notice the words I underlined: "High time"...
>    "divide",  Why?  Was there a plan before Svilen? )

	Of course it was !  Don't you know about the secret 
	Serbo-Greek agreement in 1913, that was a cause for the
	Second Balcan War? 
	
	There was also a Military Agreement "Little Antante"
	between the same countries, wasn't it? (that was not 
	an agression agreement, though).

>
>> "Fellow orthodox greeks - it's high time to divide Macedonia!
>  ::::::::::::::::               ::::::::::   ::::::
>> MACEDONIA =  HELLAS + SOUTH SERBIA" ?
>  :::::::::  ::       ::
>
>If there is a positive response here please give us the name of a
>single Greek politician (from the party of your choice)  who ever
>suggested something like that...

	The proposal for the unification of Serbia and Greece came 
	from a Serbian politician, dough, the President Slobodan
	Miloshevich. Do you have ANY illusion what would have been
	the fathe of Macedonia in that case?

>Please,in this effort,don't be confused by other Balkan nation(s)
>who had  no problem  whatsoever in siding with a particular Axis,
>say in the last 50 yrs, provided it (they) would receive portions
>of  its  two  neighbors'  territories  and  "share"  them  in the
>c o n t e x t   ( and region )  you  just  described!
>                                                        A.Romanos


	The reasons for siding "with particular Axis" were founded
	in Bucarest 1913, you know it VERY WELL. Why didn't the 
	governments of the "two neighbor's states" think at that 
	time, when they were doing unjustice to the Macedono-Bulgarians?

	Again, I cannot see your point here, since you are obviouly 
	trying to suggest that until last 50 years everything was fine.
	It was ABSOLUTELY wrong to side with Axis, but is it that 
	unusual to take care of your people that are being opressed?
	(I am not saying that that is a right thing to do!)
	Greeks fought against Turks in 1922, and not to mention what
	is happening now in ex-Yugoslavia.
	
	What really amezes me is the fact that the nations who helped 
	creating the Macedonians as a distinct group are the main 
	ones that are against their recognition today. It seems that
	as long as the Macedonias were "incorporated" they were 
	acceptable, even desired, but when they asked for independence,
	thay become unaccaptable and non-existing. 

	
Adronicos, I still belive that someone else posted the text using you 
account. I hope it's true.

	Regards,

		Lou


















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