Original_To:  JNET%"hellas@uga"
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.hellas
Date:         Thu, 16 Apr 1992 17:03:00 EDT
Reply-To:     "YORGOS M. MALTAS" <GEORGE@UMBC.BITNET>
From:         "YORGOS M. MALTAS" <GEORGE@UMBC.BITNET>
Subject:      ekpaideusn kai oi deka kardivalioi

>   Mas  serbirontai oi  gnwseis sto  piato loipon;  Dhladh, mas  leei o
>   mentoras "diabaste thn  tade dhmosieysh", thn diabazoyme,  ki an den
>   mpoyme ston kopo na rijoyme mia  matia kai sta references, mas ftaei
>   to systhma; Dhladh einai to  systhma poy fyteyei thn periergeia ston
>   anurwpo 'h h periergeia einai  emfyto xarakthristiko toy kauena mas.

Dev avaferomai stov akadnmaiko kosmo Lewvida kai to 3ereis!
Eseva sto Gumvasio/Lukeio dev sou divav sugkekrimeva biblia apo ta
opoia eprepe va diabaseis gia va peraseis, KAI ME KALO BA0MO, tnv ta3n?
Apo ekei e3etazosouv/mastav oloi... Pngaive esu wraie Hrakleiwtn ama dev
exeis mia va ko$eis tov kwlo sou v'agoraseis to kalo biblio...

>   Dioti an kapoios  einai periergos apo th fysh toy,  ti sxesh exei to
>   systhma kai ti ton ta.i.zoyn apo  to systhma. H alhueia (sxetikh kai
>   apolyth) brisketai sto  shmeio A kai sy sto shmeio  B. An aisuanueis
>   mia eljh pros  to shmeio A ua poreyteis analogws  eite to systhma se
>   periorizei eite  oxi. Systhmata kai aoratoys  exuroys toy anurwpinoy
>   pneymatos egw kai oi deka  kardinallioi apo dipla, den anagnwrizoyme
>   :-)

0elw va mou apodei3eis oti A + A = 2A, mporeis??? Egw pou eimai asxetos
mporw va sou pw oti 0a uparxei kai alln apavtnsn...

Y>  Kati pou  kavevas allos dev e0i3e  (isws ligo o Kobotis)  eivai evas
Y>  snmavtikos  paragovtas: o  idios o  ma0ntns! Aln0eia  exei katalabei
Y>  kaveis oti  o/n ma0ntns  eivai eva  0uma tou  opoioudnpote politikou
Y>  sustnmatos? Exei rwtn0ei  pote o/n ma0ntns ti 0a  n0ele? Aln0eia sas
Y>  0umizei tipota n  ekfrasn "mikros eivai akoma exei  polla va ma0ei"?

H>  Nomizw  pws   miloysame  gia   thn  prwtobaumia   kai  deyterobaumia
H>  ekpaideysh  genika. Loipon,  poio  to nohma  toy  na rwthsoyme  enan
H>  7xrono ti uelei  apo to sxoleio; Den einai ligo  astoxh erwthsh; Sto
H>  gymnasio-lykeio isws na exei nohma  kati tetoio kai ekei stoxeyan ta
H>  polykladika  lykeia, alla  PASOK  htan ayto  kai  allaze ueseis  kai
H>  antilhceis pio grhgora kai apo yalokauaristhra.

Pali apofeugeis tnv erwtnsn... Mou piaveis tov 7xrovo kai oxi tov 13o, 14o,
15o, 16o, 17o, 18o autoi posoi mikroi eivai kurie Hrakleiwtn?

H>   Prospauw  pantote  na milw  sta  plaisia  toy  efiktoy, gia  na  mhn
H>   stenaxwrw  kai  ton  paraligo  sygkatoiko  moy  sto  L.A.  Dioti  an
H>   piasoyme to  ideato, tote  as janaboythjoyme  oloi stis  NEFELES toy
H>   ueioy Aristofanh, na hremhsoyme.

Egw milw oti auto pou proteivw eivai efikto. Twra to ti kaveis esu gia
va mnv stevoxwrnseis tov paraligo roomate sou, dikaiwma sou. Alla va
mnv milame gia ideata kai efikta tnv wra pou eisai kala bolemevos stnv
kareklitsa sou, ok? Ti gvwmn vomizeis 0a'xe o Aristofavns diabazovtas
tnv parapavw apavtnsn sou? Egw vomizw oti 0a se ekave kwmwdia, opws kai
tov Swkratn...

Y>  Kai kati allo Leo:  auto pou aresei se seva mporei  va mnv aresei se
Y>  allous! To  parapavw sumperasma  sou eivai,  epieikws, aparadekto...

H>   Ma egw o foykaras den ebgala  kanena symperasma :-( Apla eipa pws an
H>   o mauhths den aisuanuei mesa toy  ena skirthma gia to X antikeimeno,
H>   tote  einai   mallon  apiuano  na  entryfhsei   perissotero  s'ayto.
H>   Prokeitai gia  tetrimmeno symperasma kai  den briskw giati  na einai
H>   aparadekto.

Kala dev egra$es oti autos pou diabazei Saxtourn kai dev tou skirta n kardia
eivai polu pi0avov kai va mn goustarei tn vewtern Ellnvikn poinsn?
Kai pali omws sfurizeis adiafora kai gia tnv tampakiera oute logos...

Y>   Giati gia va 0ewreitai kapoios/a e3upvos n' prepei va exei lefta n' va exei
Y>   diplwma n' kai ta duo mazi: kai stis treis periptwseis divoume a3ia s'eva
Y>   kommati xarti (gi'auto allwste petame kai ta kermata sto gnpedo...)

H>  Uou Kyrie  fylakh tw  stomati moy.  Peirasmos ki  aytos! Kai  pWs to
H>  orizeis  to xarti  Giwrgo;  Kai  giati xarti  kai  oxi papyro;  :-))

Xartaki agvo tou devtrou Lewvida, opws, va, px., to kwloxarto...

H>   Loipon, se  apla ellhnika "that's the  way it is, that's  the way it
H>   was". Protaseis gia allages; Na  tis syzhthsoyme alla me th desmeysh
H>   pws ua epiferoyn beltiwseis kai oxi katastrofh.

"That's the way it is klp" kai "protaseis gia allages"
Sa va mn mas ta les kala Lewvida! Pws mporeis va kaveis allages se
kati pou dev allazei? Ma0nmatika eivai fusn aduvato, sumfwva pavta me
tnv dikn sou logikn...

H>   Alla kai kati  gia na mhn paw  mazi me to potami.  Den uewrw kapoion
H>   ejypno me bash thn  xartologia toy (nomismatikh/akadhmaikh) [Koskwta
H>   na shmeiwseis  se parakalw thn  glwssoplasia sto shmeio  ayto]. Isws
H>   alloi na  to kanoyn. Egw  ki oi deka  kardinallioi omws oxi.

Kai to Suvtagma pou epikaleisai suvexeia????

H>  Kai ua
H>  eixe endiaferon an cyxografoysame aytoys poy metrane thn ejypnada me
H>  ta xartia. Ua  anakalyptame elaxistoys elpizw sth lista.  Kai den ua
H>  prepei  omws na  paraleicoyme pws  oikonomikh eymareia  einai deigma
H>  eite  sofhs  diaxeirishs  periorismenwn porwn  eite  komchs  klophs!

Evdiaferov 0a 'xe mia tetoia ereuva kai plaka exei pou gevikologeis kai
bgazeis sumperasmata apo av0rwpous pou, toulaxistov tous pio pollous, dev
exeis kav gvwrisei...

H>   Idiwtiko symferon kai organwsh  sthn Ellada einai ennoies asymbates.
H>   H parapaideia sthn Ellada anuei oxi dioti exei kalyterh organwsh apo
H>   thn  (dhmosia) paideia,  alla  dioti exei  perasei ena  sygkekrimeno
H>   mynhma se mia sygkekrimenh genia gonewn poy pouoyn na doyn to kamari
H>   toys na phgainei sto panepisthmio kai na ginetai anurwpos.

Mwre ti mas les? 0nsaurizouv oi av0rwpoi giati paizouv me tov povo twv goviwv!
0nsaurizouv giati n koivwvikn domn dev steketai se gern basn. Oloi Lewvida
ma0aivoume pws va givoume gvwstoi eite sav epistnmoves eite sav tipota allo.
Ama uparxouv kai ta lefta tote eimaste teleioi, $emata?
Rwta kai tov paraligo roomate sou va sou pei oti gia va 0nsauriseis 0elei
va breis tnv patevta tnv kaln, stnv periptwsn autn bebaia: oti oloi PREPEI
va spoudasouv, kai me lign orgavwsn, marketing kai ta toiauta petuxes tnv
kaln...

Y>->POIOS 0A 0ESPISEI TA KRITHRIA A3IOKRATIAS?

H>  Epitroph     anagnwrismenwn     akadhma.i.kwn    kai     paidagogwn.
H>  Anagnwrismenos einai  aytos poy  exei enan  elaxisto (px  15) ariumo
H>  dhmosieysewn  se jena  periodika  me krites  kai  epipleon exei  kai
H>  entonh syggrafikh kai ereynhtikh drasthriothta.

Na gia paradeigma, o Eustratiadns...
Gia 3avaske$ou to...

Y>->MPOROYN OI BA0MOI NA APOTELESOYN A3IOKRATIKO KRITHRIO?

H>   Fysika,  an  prohgoymenws   ejasfalisoyme  ena  leitoyrgiko  systhma
H>   ajiologhshs.   Px  to   panepisthmiako  systhma   baumologhshs  opoy
H>   oysiastika den  yparxei kanena  uesmiko plaisio pera  apo to  oti "h
H>   baumologikh klimaka einai apo to 0 ws to 10, arista to 10, elaxistos
H>   baumos epityxias to 5", einai aparadekto kai anajiopisto.

A, re Lewvida... Autos pou 0a parei to 5 omws 0a'vai mapas, eeee?
Ma afou o av0rwpos sxistnke gia va perasei sto Pavepistnmio kai oute
kav pairvei tnv morfwsn kai tnv gvwsn pou 0elei, ama dev exei kai mia
gia va paei sto E3WTERIKO, giati va idrwsei???

Y>->GIATI OXI STA IDIWTIKA PANEPISTHMIA? ETSI DEN PREPEI NA DOYLEYEI TO SYSTHMA?

H>   Dioti den yparxoyn ta exeggya  sthn Ellada gia thrhsh twn symbatikwn
H>   ypoxrewsewn  metajy idiwtwn  kai kratoys  kai epeidh  oi mexri  twra
H>   paraxwrhseis kratikwn monopwliwn se  idiwtes eginan kai ejakoloyuoyn
H>   na  einai  ypo  synuhkes  paranomes  kai  kataxrhstikes  (blepe  kai
H>   idiwtikh  radiothleorash).   Epipleon  den  yparxei   kanena  ntopio
H>   ependytiko   systhma   poy   exei  thn   oikonomikh   epifaneia   na
H>   antimetwpisei tis  dapanes enos idiwtikoy panepisthmioy  sto megeuos
H>   estw kai enos perifereiakoy dhmosioy panepisthmioy.

Ma afou pio priv eipes oti "that's the way it is and that's the way it was"
- dev prepei v'alla3ouv ta pragmata loipov? Giati dev e3etazeis sobara ta
legomeva mou???

Y>->AFOY DEN MAS E3YPHRETEI TO EKPAIDEYTIKO SYSTHMA GIATI NA EIMASTE
Y>  YPOXREWMENOI NA EIMASTE MELH TOY?

H>   Estw. Tote  ti proteineis; Alla opws  eipa, to oti den  einai teleio
H>   de  shmainei   pws  ua  prepei   na  mhn  eimaste  melh   toy.  Osoi
H>   oneireyontai  teleia ekpaideytika  systhmata,  as janadiabasoyn  tis
H>   Nefeles na syneluoyn.

Alloi diabazouv tis Nefeles kai tis diabazouv kurie Hrakleiwtn...
Poia n diafora? Elpizw va sas bon0nsouv oi ma0nmatikes gvwseis sas...

O "ouravos vefelwdns kai n 0alassa trikumiwdns" lukos
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU