HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: gallo@almira.asel.udel.edu (Andy Gallo)
Subject: Re: Kohonen Network
Organization: AI duPont Institute
Distribution: aus
Date: Tue, 1 Sep 1992 14:53:02 GMT

In article <1992Sep1.042229.15789@latcs1.lat.oz.au> suing@latcs1.lat.oz.au (Marita G Suing) writes asking a few questions about Kohonen networks.
>-  how and when to stop training (i.e. how do i 
>   know that the network has learned) ?

	By no means am I an expert on this, so please correct me if I
am mistaken.  The corrected information would be useful to me as well.

	The time this takes is going to depend a lot on the size of
the network, the nature of the inputs, and the training parameters.
If the network converges, then you're definately done (there are
several pathological conditions that the network can get into, which
should terminate training as well, and probably will then require a
rethinking of your strategy, input encoding, etc).
	For a better discussion of this, check out Kohonen's paper:

Kohonen, T., ``Self-Organized Formation of Topologically Correct
	Feature Maps'', Biological Cybernetics, v 43, pp 59-69, 1982.

>-  at what value the learning parameter should start
>   and in what manner (linear, exponential, etc.) 
>   should it decrease in time ?

	Try this:

		alpha = alpha0 * (1 - t/T)

	where alpha is the learning rate for this iteration, alpha0 is
the initial learning rate, t is the number of the current iteration,
and T is the total number of iterations you intend to run.  An alpha0
of 0.7 is recommended in some texts I've seen, but this can be fiddled
with experimentally.

>-  how fast should the neighborhood should decrease
>   in size ?

	This is similar to the above:

		delta = delta0 * (1 - t/T)

	delta0 can usually be chosen to be half the width of the
output layer.

	For a good introduction to Kohonen, and neural nets in
general, check out:

Dayoff, J.E., {\it Neural Network Architectures: An Introduction}, Van
	Nostrand Reinhold, New York, 1990.

Wasserman, P.D., {\it Neural Computing: Theory and Practice}, Van
	Nostrand Reinhold, New York, 1989.


	Both of these books are written with the implementor in mind.
For the heavy theory you're better off looking at other sources.

	Hope this helps.  Hope I haven't said anything wildly wrong.

>-----------------------------------------------------------------------------<
> Andy Gallo   | gallo@asel.udel.edu  | U. of Delaware/Applied Sci & Eng Labs <
>-----------------------------------------------------------------------------<
>     Come wash the nighttime clean, come grow the scorched ground green.     <
>-----------------------------------------------------------------------------<
From: awenn@matilda.vut.edu.au (Andrew Wenn)
Newsgroups: aus.ai
Subject: Edinburgh Prolog PD libraries
Date: 21 Aug 92 05:19:06 GMT
Distribution: aus
Organization: Victoria University of Technology

I am after an IP address and/or name of a site preferably in Australia
where I can get hold of the Edinburgh Prolog libraries. 

Any pointers in this direction would be most appreciated.



---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Andrew Wenn          Victoria University of Technology
                     Footscray Campus.
                     awenn@matilda.vut.edu.au

                     phone 03 688 4342
                     fax   03 688 4804
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Newsgroups: aus.ai
From: rng@dstos3.dsto.gov.au
Newsgroups: dsto.general,aus.ai,aus.acs,sa.cs
Subject: SA AI SIG meeting, September 15
Date: 28 Aug 92 14:38:56 GMT
Organization: Defence Science and Technology Organisation


                            ACS (SA) AI SIG Meeting

                           Tuesday  September 15 1992

                Wayne Agutter (SA Centre for Parallel Computing)

                "An Introduction to the CM5 Connection Machine"

The South Australian Centre for Parallel Computing is in the
process of purchasing a CM5 supercomputer for use by the South
Australian community.

The CM5 provides high performance plus ease of use for large,
complex, data-intensive applications in an architecture designed to
scale to teraflops. The makers claim the machine combines the best
features of existing parallel architectures, including fine and
coarse grained parallelism, MIMD and SIMD control and fault
tolerance in a single integrated 'universal' architecture.

This presentation gives an overview of the CM5 including the
processor and communication network architectures and the software
development environment.

Waayne Agutter is the Director of the South Australian Centre for
Parallel Computing.


                           Time: 6.00 - 6.30 (coffee)
                             6.30 - 7.30 (lecture)

              Venue: Lecture Theatre, Computer Science Department,
                            University of Adelaide.

         With sufficient demand, we will go for a meal after the talk.

             For further details, contact Ronnie Gori on 259 7124,
                           email rng@itd.dsto.gov.au
Xref: sparky aus.ai:119 comp.ai:3287 comp.ai.neural-nets:3364
From: suing@latcs1.lat.oz.au (Marita G Suing)
Newsgroups: aus.ai,comp.ai,comp.ai.neural-nets
Subject: Kohonen Network
Date: 1 Sep 92 04:22:29 GMT
Distribution: aus
Organization: Comp Sci, La Trobe Uni, Australia

From: suing@latcs1.lat.oz.au (Marita G Suing)
Newsgroups: aus.ai,comp.ai,comp.ai.neural-nets
Subject: Kohonen Networks
Summary: 
Followup-To: 
Distribution: 
Organization: Comp Sci, La Trobe Uni, Australia
Keywords: 



Hi!

I am writing an implementation of Kohonen Networks as
part of my thesis. I am encountering some difficulty
with regards to certain aspects of the algorithm. I
want to know in particular some information about the
following:

-  how and when to stop training (i.e. how do i 
   know that the network has learned) ?

-  how fast should the neighborhood should decrease
   in size ?

-  at what value the learning parameter should start
   and in what manner (linear, exponential, etc.) 
   should it decrease in time ?

I would appreciate it very much if somebody could
give some information on the above questions.

Marita 
EMAIL : suing@latcs1.lat.oz.au
Newsgroups: aus.radio
From: dave@ips.oz.au (Dave Horsfall)
Subject: Re: WICEN again
Organization: IPS Radio and Space Services.  Sydney, Australia.
Date: Fri, 28 Aug 1992 07:14:43 GMT

In article <1992Aug22.102900.19345@runx.oz.au>
    ycomputr@runx.oz.au (Mark Cheeseman) writes:

>Aside from the obvious things, like exercises and activations, what sort of
>time is spent doing training and stuff like that. I'm assuming that the
>exercised aren't the only time that WICEN gets together!

Training courses are pretty much up the region involved - each region is
semi-autonomous in a way.  We in Sydney North are looking at Bush Fire
training (so we know what to do on a fire-front - we don't fight fires)
and SES Flood Boat training (the SES don't allow ops on a boat unless
they've done a course).  There is also First Aid training (not compulsory
but highly recommended), map-reading etc.

-- 
Dave Horsfall (VK2KFU)         VK2KFU @ VK2RWI.NSW.AUS.OC
dave@ips.OZ.AU                  ...munnari!ips.OZ.AU!dave
Xref: sparky aus.radio:539 aus.radio.packet:80
From: makinc@hhcs.gov.au (Carl Makin)
Newsgroups: aus.radio,aus.radio.packet
Subject: Re: WICEN again
Date: 26 Aug 92 10:57:22 +1000
Organization: Aust. Dept. Health, Housing and Community Services

In article <1992Aug25.005137.10870@sserve.cc.adfa.oz.au>, pgc@csadfa.cs.adfa.oz.au (Phil Clark) writes:

>>>> We want technical people in WICEN, and we want them NOW.  Aspersions have
>>>> Who's interested?

>> Me too, I'm not in NSW though... 
 
> Why dont you put your name down for ACT WICEN?

I'm reasonably certain that my name is already down Phil! :-)

Carl.
-- 
Carl Makin, MVS/ESA Systems Programmer, VAX/VMS Dabbler. 
Dept. Health, Housing and Community Services, Canberra, Australia.
sserve.cc.adfa.oz.au!hhcs!makinc   -   UUCP
makinc@hhcs.gov.au		   -   Internet
vk1kcm@vk1kcm.act.aus.oc	   -   Packet Radio
"I'm from the Government and I'm here to help you."
Newsgroups: aus.radio
From: hhspcg@wombat.newcastle.edu.au
Subject: WICEN (NSW) State CO- new e-mail AD
Organization: University of Newcastle, AUSTRALIA
Date: Wed, 2 Sep 1992 22:39:33 GMT

PLease note that I have moved from the University Computing Services to the
School of Health.

My phone No remains unchanged at (049) 216377
My new Fax is (049) 216301

My new e-mail address is hhspcg@wombat.newcastle.edu.au

See ya.... Philip Greentree VK2IW  State Coordinator-WICEN (NSW) Inc

Newsgroups: aus.radio
From: dave@ips.oz.au (Dave Horsfall)
Subject: Daily IPS Report - 19 Aug 92
Organization: IPS Radio and Space Services.  Sydney, Australia.
Distribution: aus
Date: Wed, 19 Aug 1992 00:16:16 GMT

IPS RADIO AND SPACE SERVICES AUSTRALIA
Daily Solar And Geophysical Report
Issued at 2330 UT 18 August 1992
Summary for 18 August and Forecast up to 21 August
No IPS warning is current.
-----------------------------------------------------------

1A. SOLAR SUMMARY
Activity : low

Flares : None.

Observed 10.7 cm flux/Equivalent Sunspot Number : 130/082

1B. SOLAR FORECAST
             19 August          20 August          21 August
Activity     Low to moderate    Low to moderate    Low to moderate
Fadeouts     Possible           Possible           Possible

Forecast 10.7 cm flux/Equivalent Sunspot Number : 130/082

1C. SOLAR COMMENT
None.
-----------------------------------------------------------

2A. MAGNETIC SUMMARY
Geomagnetic field at Learmonth : quiet

Estimated Indices : A   K
    Sydney          --  ---- ----
    Learmonth       04  1221 1211
    Fredericksburg  05
    Planetary       05

2B. MAGNETIC FORECAST
Geomagnetic field at Sydney : quiet to unsettled
Ap :  15

2C. MAGNETIC COMMENT
The expected coronal hole related disturbance did not occur.

3A. GLOBAL HF PROPAGATION SUMMARY
Propagation conditions :         
Low Lats: Normal.
Mid Lats: Normal.
High Lats: Normal.
PCA Event : None.
3B. GLOBAL HF PROPAGATION FORECAST
Propagation conditions are expected to be normal.
3C. GLOBAL HF PROPAGATION COMMENT
None.

-----------------------------------------------------------

4A. AUSTRALIAN REGION IONOSPHERIC SUMMARY
MUF's at Sydney were slightly depressed during the day, and near
normal at night.

Observed Sydney Regional Ionospheric Index :  73

4B. AUSTRALIAN REGION IONOSPHERIC FORECAST
           19 August         20 August         21 August
MUFs       Near normal       Near normal       Near normal
T index    80                80                80

Predicted Monthly Ionospheric Index for August is 100.

4C. AUSTRALIAN REGION COMMENT
None.

-- 
Dave Horsfall (VK2KFU)         VK2KFU @ VK2RWI.NSW.AUS.OC
dave@ips.OZ.AU                  ...munnari!ips.OZ.AU!dave
Newsgroups: aus.radio,aus.radio.packet
From: terryd@extro.ucc.su.OZ.AU (Terry Dawson)
Subject: Re: WICEN again
Organization: Sydney University Computing Service, Sydney, NSW, Australia
Date: Fri, 4 Sep 1992 08:50:11 GMT

mbk113@rsphy1.anu.edu.au (Marek Kaminski) writes:

>I am convinced I've already posted my response to one of the queries;
>maybe it went to nowhere;

It must have, I didn't see it  .. and I was waiting for a response :-)

>here is its summary:
>1.	New software was given to unprepared operators, who sometimes were
>unable to
>	cope with it;
>2.	The idea of the custom made application to create a source file for
>the spreadsheet
>	didn't appeal to me. I'd rather have given away copies of the
>spreadsheet or asked to
>	create a text file with a PROVEN text editor, instead of struggling
>with buggy applic-
>	ation and uploading kilobytes of resulting crook files;
>3.	The packet protocol appears to me as having heaps of overhead before
>the actual
>	transmission commences (connect, setup....) This doesn't help keeping
>up with the
>	pace of the rally action; if we HAVE TO do it, a reasonable tradeoff
>between size of
>	the transmission (the longer the better) and information delay
>(reverse) must be
>	found;
>4.	In the mode of operation I was able to see, packet operators used VHF
>voice to schedule
>	their uploads with 'control' operator; quite ineffective use of
>resources. Better way
>	would be to allow the 'control' to login remotely to the outstations at
>his own pace
>	and suck the data in.
>5.	I wouldn't take MY OWN laptop to such an exercise, unless I had a
>minibus / RV / van class
>	vehicle to put it in. Picture of a Toshiba laptop ($3000?) biting dust
>on a table one metre
>	from a dirt rally road will last long in my memory. Btw. it was NOT a
>private property,
>	maybe the owner company is rich enough.

All except the last can be easily overcome .. they were all failings of the
organisatoin, not of the technology. Inadequate testing, preparation etc. can
be overcome the same way as it is for voice, practise _before_ the event.
Designing a system specifically for the applicatoin at hand, but with a
flexible enough technology base such that it can be fairly easily modified
to other uses as they develop.

The last is probably the only real problem .. I wouldn't take a laptop
with a harddrive in it, let alone one worth that amount of money ..
I think it will be possible to design a totally solid state device to
do the job .. Mobile Data Terminals exist for other applications ..
I don't believe it is beyond the means of amateurs to design a mobile
data terminal ..

Terry


-- 
Terry Dawson, terryd@extro.ucc.su.OZ.AU, vk2ktj@gw.vk2ktj.ampr.org
+61 2 925 1556 (voice), +61 2 922 5973 (fax).   __\*/__  0^Ooooo _
From: dave@ips.oz.au (Dave Horsfall)
Subject: Daily IPS Report - 18 Aug 92
Organization: IPS Radio and Space Services.  Sydney, Australia.
Distribution: aus
Date: Tue, 18 Aug 1992 06:40:17 GMT

IPS RADIO AND SPACE SERVICES AUSTRALIA
Daily Solar And Geophysical Report
Issued at 2330 UT 17 August 1992
Summary for 17 August and Forecast up to 20 August
IPS Warning No. 20, issued on 17 August, is still current.
-----------------------------------------------------------

1A. SOLAR SUMMARY
Activity : low

Flares : None.

Observed 10.7 cm flux/Equivalent Sunspot Number : 134/086

1B. SOLAR FORECAST
             18 August          19 August          20 August
Activity     Low to moderate    Low to moderate    Low to moderate
Fadeouts     Possible           Possible           Possible

Forecast 10.7 cm flux/Equivalent Sunspot Number : 135/087

1C. SOLAR COMMENT
None.
-----------------------------------------------------------

2A. MAGNETIC SUMMARY
Geomagnetic field at Learmonth : quiet

Estimated Indices : A   K
    Sydney          --  ---- ----
    Learmonth       00  1100 0000
    Fredericksburg  04
    Planetary       05

2B. MAGNETIC FORECAST
Geomagnetic field at Sydney : active to minor storm
Ap :  30

2C. MAGNETIC COMMENT
A disturbance due to a coronal hole is expected.

3A. GLOBAL HF PROPAGATION SUMMARY
Propagation conditions :         
Low Lats: Normal.
Mid Lats: Normal.
High Lats: Normal.
PCA Event : None.
3B. GLOBAL HF PROPAGATION FORECAST
Propagation conditions are expected to be normal.
3C. GLOBAL HF PROPAGATION COMMENT
None.

-----------------------------------------------------------

4A. AUSTRALIAN REGION IONOSPHERIC SUMMARY
MUF's at Sydney were near normal.

Observed Sydney Regional Ionospheric Index :  79

4B. AUSTRALIAN REGION IONOSPHERIC FORECAST
           18 August        19 August            20 August
MUFs       Near normal      Enhanced 15-30%      Depressed 15-30%
T index    75               100                  60

Predicted Monthly Ionospheric Index for August is 100.

4C. AUSTRALIAN REGION COMMENT
None.

-- 
Dave Horsfall (VK2KFU)         VK2KFU @ VK2RWI.NSW.AUS.OC
dave@ips.OZ.AU                  ...munnari!ips.OZ.AU!dave
Xref: sparky aus.radio:571 aus.radio.packet:95
From: makinc@hhcs.gov.au (Carl Makin)
Newsgroups: aus.radio,aus.radio.packet
Subject: Re: WICEN again
Date: 31 Aug 92 23:55:50 +1000
Organization: Aust. Dept. Health, Housing and Community Services

In article <1992Aug30.065842.23886@runx.oz.au>, richardm@runx.oz.au (Richard Murnane) writes:

>> Me too, I'm not in NSW though...
 
> No matter: there are special provisions for ACT amateurs who want to get
> involved in VK2 WICEN activities. 

What special provisions?

It's actually more complex than that anyway.  I'm also a member
of Queanbeyan SES so here's no real point me officially joining
any WICEN group.  I help out on local exercises, like the Esanda
Rally, though.

>                          It's not that far to drive, to get out of
> the ACT, is it? :-)

Um, I live about 1 km from the border. :-)

Carl.
-- 
Carl Makin, MVS/ESA Systems Programmer, VAX/VMS Dabbler. 
Dept. Health, Housing and Community Services, Canberra, Australia.
sserve.cc.adfa.oz.au!hhcs!makinc   -   UUCP
makinc@hhcs.gov.au		   -   Internet
vk1kcm@vk1kcm.act.aus.oc	   -   Packet Radio
"I'm from the Government and I'm here to help you."
Xref: sparky aus.radio:578 aus.radio.packet:101
From: makinc@hhcs.gov.au (Carl Makin)
Newsgroups: aus.radio,aus.radio.packet
Subject: Re: WICEN again
Date: 2 Sep 92 12:07:39 +1000
Organization: Aust. Dept. Health, Housing and Community Services

In article <1992Sep1.215450.11003@sserve.cc.adfa.oz.au>, pgc@csadfa.cs.adfa.oz.au (Phil Clark) writes:

>>>> Me too, I'm not in NSW though...
  
>>> No matter: there are special provisions for ACT amateurs who want to get
>>> involved in VK2 WICEN activities. 

> Why not contact your local WICEN people Carl? We are here and ready to answer
> questions that you may have and how you could help.

I'm aware of the local organisation Phil. I was under the
impression they had my name anyway.

My question was actually about the special provisions in NSW.  I
was wondering what they were.

Carl. 
-- 
Carl Makin, MVS/ESA Systems Programmer, VAX/VMS Dabbler. 
Dept. Health, Housing and Community Services, Canberra, Australia.
sserve.cc.adfa.oz.au!hhcs!makinc   -   UUCP
makinc@hhcs.gov.au		   -   Internet
vk1kcm@vk1kcm.act.aus.oc	   -   Packet Radio
"I'm from the Government and I'm here to help you."
From: dave@ips.oz.au (Dave Horsfall)
Newsgroups: aus.radio
Subject: Daily IPS Report - 29 Aug 92
Date: 30 Aug 92 08:26:24 GMT
Distribution: aus
Organization: IPS Radio and Space Services.  Sydney, Australia.

IPS RADIO AND SPACE SERVICES AUSTRALIA
Daily Solar And Geophysical Report
Issued at 2330 UT 28 August 1992
Summary for 28 August and Forecast up to 31 August
No IPS warning is current.
-----------------------------------------------------------

1A. SOLAR SUMMARY
Activity: Very Low

Flares: None

Observed 10.7 cm flux/Equivalent Sunspot Number : 096/044

1B. SOLAR FORECAST
             29 August          30 August          31 August
Activity     Low                Low                Low
Fadeouts     None expected      None expected      None expected

Forecast 10.7 cm flux/Equivalent Sunspot Number : 100/049

1C. SOLAR COMMENT
None.
-----------------------------------------------------------

2A. MAGNETIC SUMMARY
Geomagnetic field at Learmonth (WA) : quiet

Estimated Indices : A   K
    Sydney          --  ---- ----
    Learmonth       03  2220 0011
    Fredericksburg  05
    Planetary       10

2B. MAGNETIC FORECAST
Geomagnetic field at Learmonth : quiet to unsettled
Ap :  08

2C. MAGNETIC COMMENT
None.

3A. GLOBAL HF PROPAGATION SUMMARY
Propagation conditions :         
Low Lats: Normal.
Mid Lats: Normal.
High Lats: Normal.
PCA Event : None.
3B. GLOBAL HF PROPAGATION FORECAST
Propagation conditions are expected to be normal.
3C. GLOBAL HF PROPAGATION COMMENT
None.

-----------------------------------------------------------

4A. AUSTRALIAN REGION IONOSPHERIC SUMMARY
MUF's at Sydney were depressed 15-25% for most of the day.
Depressions of 40% occurred between 18-19UT. Spread F may
have degraded communications from 11-20UT.

Observed Sydney Regional Ionospheric Index :  51

4B. AUSTRALIAN REGION IONOSPHERIC FORECAST
          29 August          30 August          31 August
MUFs      depressed          depressed          depressed  
T index    55                 55                 55

Predicted Monthly Ionospheric Index for August is 100.

4C. AUSTRALIAN REGION COMMENT
Frequencies today are expected to be depressed to 25%.

-- 
Dave Horsfall (VK2KFU)         VK2KFU @ VK2RWI.NSW.AUS.OC
dave@ips.OZ.AU                  ...munnari!ips.OZ.AU!dave
Newsgroups: aus.radio
From: dave@ips.oz.au (Dave Horsfall)
Subject: Daily IPS Report - 25 Aug 92
Organization: IPS Radio and Space Services.  Sydney, Australia.
Distribution: aus
Date: Tue, 25 Aug 1992 08:14:59 GMT

IPS RADIO AND SPACE SERVICES AUSTRALIA
Daily Solar And Geophysical Report
Issued at 2330 UT 24 August 1992
Summary for 24 August and Forecast up to 27 August
No IPS warning is current.
-----------------------------------------------------------

1A. SOLAR SUMMARY
Activity: low

Flares: none.

Observed 10.7 cm flux/Equivalent Sunspot Number : 102/051

1B. SOLAR FORECAST
             25 August          26 August          27 August
Activity     Low                Low                Low
Fadeouts     None expected      None expected      None expected

Forecast 10.7 cm flux/Equivalent Sunspot Number : 095/043

1C. SOLAR COMMENT
None.
-----------------------------------------------------------

2A. MAGNETIC SUMMARY
Geomagnetic field at Sydney : quiet

Estimated Indices : A   K
    Sydney          --  ---- ----
    Learmonth       02  0111 0201
    Fredericksburg  07
    Planetary       15

2B. MAGNETIC FORECAST
Geomagnetic field at Sydney : quiet to unsettled
Ap :  15

2C. MAGNETIC COMMENT
None.

3A. GLOBAL HF PROPAGATION SUMMARY
Propagation conditions :         
Low Lats: Fair to good.
Mid Lats: Fair to good.
High Lats: Pool to fair.
PCA Event : None.
3B. GLOBAL HF PROPAGATION FORECAST
Propagation conditions are expected to be fair to good at low
and mid lats, fair at high lats.
3C. GLOBAL HF PROPAGATION COMMENT
None.

-----------------------------------------------------------

4A. AUSTRALIAN REGION IONOSPHERIC SUMMARY
MUF's at Sydney were depressed about 15-20%

Observed Sydney Regional Ionospheric Index :  56

4B. AUSTRALIAN REGION IONOSPHERIC FORECAST
          25 August           26 August          27 August
MUFs      depressed about 15% near normal        near normal
T index   65                  75                 80

Predicted Monthly Ionospheric Index for August is 100.

4C. AUSTRALIAN REGION COMMENT
None.

-- 
Dave Horsfall (VK2KFU)         VK2KFU @ VK2RWI.NSW.AUS.OC
dave@ips.OZ.AU                  ...munnari!ips.OZ.AU!dave
Newsgroups: aus.radio,aus.radio.packet
From: ycomputr@runx.oz.au (Mark Cheeseman)
Subject: Re: WICEN again
Organization: Your Computer Magazine, Sydney, Australia
Date: Mon, 31 Aug 92 06:33:30 GMT

In article <1992Aug30.084305.27044@ips.oz.au> dave@ips.oz.au (Dave Horsfall) writes:
>Well, Baycom source is not available (it's a commercial product after all),
>and neither product has great performance - they do the HDLC bit-banging
>in software.

I didn't realise Baycom was commercial (I've never even seen it, myself). The
reason I suggested that or PMP was the very minimal hardware requirement
needed beyond a laptop and handheld. Not to mention its low power consumption.
Low power TNCs would be nice, but they're not cheap. Your KISS-on-a-chip TNCs
would be ideal :-)
>
>We're a bit late - when you see vehicles with data screens in them (taxis,
>couriers etc) what mode do you suppose they are using?  Packet is no longer
>the sole province of Amateur radio :-(
>
No, but I suspect that they're rather application-specific (which is to our
advantage). I agree though - packet radio has started to leave us behind in
the applications area.

-Mark


-- 
Mark Cheeseman, Your Computer. ycomputr@runx.oz.au  
packet: vk2xgk@vk2op.nsw.aus.oc     [This space intentionally blank] 
Phn: +61 2 693 4143  Fax: +61 2 693 9720  Fido: 3:712/505.15@fidonet.org
Newsgroups: aus.radio,aus.radio.packet