HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: stetner@bcarh1b6.BNR.CA (Douglas Stetner)
Subject: Re: Refusing to yield right of away out of moral indignation
Reply-To: stetner@bnr.ca
Organization: Bell Northern Research
Date: Wed, 19 Aug 1992 16:52:23 GMT


In article <1992Aug18.133218.26642@spxtech.qc.ca>, steven@spxtech.qc.ca
(Steve Potter) writes:
|> 
|>   Rather than risk having my son fall down those stairs I yelled "OK,
|>   I'M ON MY WAY!" over the phone; grabbed my keys; did not stop to explain
|>   my sudden anxious departure to my colleagues, superiors or reception;
|>   jumped into the car and flew home; foot to the floor, main beam on,
|>   hazard lights flashing, honking any one suffering from self-righteous
|>   moral indignation out of the way!
|> 
|> -- 
|>   ///==================================================================\\\
|>   ||| Steve Potter:         steven%spxtech@CAM.ORG                     |||
|>   ||| Expertise/Experience: Computer Systems Engineering / Real Ale /  |||
|>   |||                       Politics in Education in Quebec            |||

To me it sounds like you risked the lives of MANY people out on the roads
to rush home to prevent an accident that may or may not have happened, and
may or may not have been life threatening.

Not very smart in my OPINION.

Doug

------------------------------------------------------------------------
---------
Douglas G. Stetner, 4Y22  |  Bell-Northern Research  | ESN 6+39+3+8396
      stetner@bnr.ca      |  P.O. Box 3511, Stn. C   | (613) 763-8396  (work)
 My opinions are my own.  |  Ottawa, ON, CANADA      | (613) 828-6321  (home)
Xref: sparky ont.general:1651 can.general:4090 soc.culture.canada:5940
From: marc@fozzi.ocunix.on.ca (Marc Donovan)
Newsgroups: ont.general,can.general,soc.culture.canada,ott.followup
Subject: Re: Refusing to yield right of away out of moral indignation
Date: 20 Aug 92 16:36:04 GMT
Organization: Ottawa, Ontario, Canada

>>  Your type cause accidents!
>
> four-way flashers on, beat out SOS on your horn, and/or use the
> emergency lane.  Believe me, I will get out of your way if it's

The "emergency lane" in most places IS the left lane!!!


In Quebec, at least, the law states that you MUST stay in the right-hand
lane unless you are passing.  In many provinces, most 4 lane roads have
signs stating "Slower traffic keep right".  These are ALSO the law!
So to all those drivers who like to hog the left lane:  You are also
breaking the law, hypocrites!  So keep to the right unless you're passing,
and leave law enforcement to the law enforcement agencies.  Unless you
intend to make a citizens arrest (and you can't in traffic cases because
it's not a criminal offence!) keep out of the way, drive safely, and
don't obstruct traffic.

My $0.02 worth.

<marc>
Newsgroups: ont.general,can.general,soc.culture.canada,ott.followup
From: buckland@ucs.ubc.ca (Tony Buckland)
Subject: Re: Refusing to yield right of away out of moral indignation
Organization: University of B.C. Computing Services
Date: Wed, 19 Aug 1992 22:11:59 GMT

In article <1992Aug18.133218.26642@spxtech.qc.ca> steven@spxtech.qc.ca (Steve Potter) writes:
>In article <1992Aug16.031451.16659@unixg.ubc.ca> buckland@ucs.ubc.ca
> Tony Buckland writes:
>>In article <Bt1E2s.4x4@watdragon.uwaterloo.ca> drraymon@watdragon.uwaterloo.ca (Darrell Raymond) writes:
>>>In article <riskit-140892143559@47.201.0.36>, riskit@x400gate.bnr.ca (Reg Foulkes) writes:
>>>>    BTW, what makes you so sure that the guy tailgating is a jerk. 
>>>> Maybe he has a valid reason for wanting to go faster. You don't know and
>>>> is not up to you to judge. (If you follow the letter of the law, it is 
>> If I'm moving at the speed limit, there is only one class of vehicles
>> that have a valid reason for wanting to go faster, and that consists
>> exclusively of emergency vehicles with their flashing lights,
>> sirens or whatever in operation.  Anyone else wanting to go faster
>> is someone who wants to break the law.
>  Sometimes it is necessary to break the law - it happened to me once and
>  I would do it again without question:-
> ... tale of incident justifyng speeding omitted ...
>  I hope you don't get in my way if something like that ever happens to
>  me again!
>  Your type cause accidents!

 Sorry, I should have put something in to include your situation.
 Yes, of course there are times civilians have to speed in an
 emergency; though it pays to try despite the adrenalin to think
 twice, since you are unlikely to have the training or vehicle to
 drive safely at really high speeds, and it doesn't help much to,
 for instance, end up with your wife in labor in the middle of a
 traffic accident that could injure or kill other, uninvolved,
 people.
 
 There are many easily recognized things you can do to assume the
 temporary and unofficial mantle of emergency vehicle driver:
 flash your lights and sound your horn continuously, put your
 four-way flashers on, beat out SOS on your horn, and/or use the
 emergency lane.  Believe me, I will get out of your way if it's
 humanly possible.  If I have to do this at some risk of really
 causing an accident, I hope it doesn't turn out you were putting
 me on.
Newsgroups: ont.general
From: pt@geovision.gvc.com (Paul Tomblin)
Subject: Re: Risks and Bicycle Helmets
Reply-To: pt@geovision.gvc.com
Organization: Not officially GeoVision Systems Inc., Ottawa, Ontario
Distribution: na
Date: Tue, 18 Aug 1992 11:43:40 GMT

chris@mks.com (Chris Retterath) writes:

>Excellent posting! The vanishing *small* risks associated with riding
>without helmets are overblown. Good to see some even conservative
>estimates that bear this out.

Statistics be damned!  It's the likes of you (or your surviving
relatives) who will sue the parks when you spill you brains out over my
mountain bike trails, and then the parks will ban mountain biking
because they can't afford the lawsuits.

We all know the story about the motorcyclist who died of head injuries when
returning from testifying to some state legislature about why we dont need
mandatory helmet laws.

What you probably don't know is that hiking nearly got banned in Yosemite
park because some idiot got mauled by a grizzly, and then sued the Forest
Service and Parks Department, and just about everybody up to the Secretary
of the Interior.  The really stupid thing is that they WON!  Now, the Parks
Department is seriously considering _removing_ all the bears from Yosemite.

Your freedom to not wear a helmet stops when it will infringe on my freedom
to ride.

-- 
Paul Tomblin, pt@geovision.gvc.com or {uunet,revcan}!geovision!pt
(This is not an official opinion of GeoVision Systems Inc.)
"I need that trephination stuff like I need another hole in the head"
    --  Kim L. Greer in alt.folklore.urban
Newsgroups: ont.general,can.general,soc.culture.canada,ott.general
From: dwjz@bnr.ca (Doug Zolmer)
Subject: Re: sidebar re 401
Reply-To: dwjz@bnr.ca (Doug Zolmer)
Organization: Bell-Northern Research Ltd.
Distribution: can
Date: Wed, 12 Aug 1992 20:33:04 GMT

In article <8DLePB1w164w@ham.almanac.bc.ca>, emd@ham.almanac.bc.ca writes:
|> dwjz@bnr.ca (Doug Zolmer) writes:
|> > All limited access multi-lane roads are freeways, all others are called
|> > highways.
|> > 
|> 
|> 
|> No, they're not. Freeways are called "free"ways to distinguish them from 
|> toll highways, something you're obviously not familiar with (something to 
|> give thanks for, believe me!). What they get called depends on local 
|> terminology, as what you call a freeway is also called an autoroute, an 
|> interstate, or simply a highway, depending on where you live. 
|> 

Perhaps I should've made it clear that this is the common meaning in 
Ontario (local terminology).  We don't have any toll-roads left in 
Ontario (thank the stars) so they came up with this other definition 
just to confuse us.  Heck, Montreal Road, a very busy road with tonnes
of traffic signal lights, in the middle of an urban area is called a 
highway (it's highway 17B).  

Anyways, who really cares!  I just call them all highways.

|> 
|> emd@ham.almanac.bc.ca (Robert Smits Ladysmith BC)

-- 
dwjz@bnr.ca  Voice: +1 613 763-8217  Disclaimer: my opinions only  
Newsgroups: ont.general,can.general,soc.culture.canada,ott.general
From: donald@sq.sq.com (Donald Teed)
Subject: Re: 401 and Interstate contrasts
Organization: SoftQuad Inc.
Distribution: can
Date: Wed, 12 Aug 92 17:32:30 GMT

jnetto@bnr.ca (John Netto) writes:

> I did learn though that most US drivers drive better than I thought. I 
> expected them to be the same as OTTAWANS (Ontario??), but was surprised to
> learn otherwise. Driving on an Interstate where the 2 lanes were narrowed and
> squeezed left at a construction site, traffic managed to get along at the
> same speed prior to this 'ostruction'. In OTTAWA, it's been my experience
> that traffic slows to a snarl...

> Where did most OTTAWANS learn to drive anyway ?? 

I have a theory about this, having just come off the Interstate route
from Boston to Buffalo, and being a regular on the 401.

The highways here have very poor standards with regards to planning
merging areas and lengths, and also the number of lanes one must
change to in order to get to the right place.  In the U.S., the merge
lanes are long and constantly that way - which means that heavy
vehicles can merge without causing breaking, lane switching and
accidents.  Also the access to the Turnpike/Thruway is controlled
by entrance and exit only on the right without the risk of "this
lane ends".  Thus traffic flows much smoother and safely.  In Canada,
the merge lanes are any length, you may have to get into the left
lane to make an exit from the road you are on, and the lanes are
always being hacked off and slapped on somehwere on the left.
The amount of lane changing and braking required to drive on
the major routes causes people to learn the most terribly aggressive
strategies which they become to believe are required to overcome
the nonsense.  Another factor is simply the volume to space
ratio out there, which is somewhat lower on the toll fee highways
in the U.S. 

--Donald Teed
Newsgroups: ont.general,can.general,soc.culture.canada,ott.general
From: jrwyatt@bnr.ca (Robert Wyatt)
Subject: Re: sidebar re 401
Reply-To: jrwyatt@bnr.ca (Robert Wyatt)
Organization: Bell-Northern Research Ltd.
Distribution: can
Date: Wed, 12 Aug 92 17:40:12 GMT

In article <1992Aug12.135133.15908@mongrel.uucp>, amdunn@mongrel.uucp (Andrew M. Dunn) writes:
|> In article <1992Aug11.123407.28576@bcrka451.bnr.ca> mennie@bcrki39.bnr.ca (Bill Mennie 3-4473) writes:
|> 
|> >Unfortunately, my experience tells me that it is exactly those
|> >more powereful vehicles that nearly force me off the road by passing 5
|> >cars in a row...
|> 
|> And thus the problem.  People, usually because they won't, can't or are
|> afraid to pass, bunch up in tight little knots.  They won't leave
|> enough space to allow somebody to pass one vehicle at a time, so you
|> can't pass the blockage unless you pass ALL the cars in the row,
|> including the slow-moving vehicle which started the jam.

First, People always fail to leave a proper following distance regardless 
of the weather!

Second, people who don't maintain the speed limit are almost
as dangerous as the people who exceed the speed limit.

Third, why do we allow people to sell cars that are more than capable of exceeding all speed limits everywhere in North America? These people say 
they don't buy the car to speed, but they like the power within the speed
limits. Ok, then allow you car to have controls that inhibit speeds in 
excess of 120 KPH!

Fourth (last), people who can't wait to pass because the driver in front is
doing 5 KPM below the speed limit are AIR heads, get a life and realize that
5 KPH slow speeds saves money and the environment and no one gets hurt
because an AIR head makes a mistake passing!



|> If people would only leave a little space, then passing would be
|> MUCH safer, but they don't...

Not just safer for passing!

Robert
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
J. Robert Wyatt     613-763-9665         |E-Mail --------->>>> jrwyatt@bnr.ca
Bell-Northern Research Ltd.              |-------------------------------------
P.O. Box 3511, Station C                 |My views are my own; no one 
Ottawa, Ontario                          |else would own up to them. 
Canada, K1Y-4H7                          |Don't take offence, its not intended!
===============================================================================


Newsgroups: ont.general,can.general,soc.culture.canada,ott.general
From: clewis@ferret.ocunix.on.ca (Chris Lewis)
Subject: Re: sidebar re 401
Originator: clewis@bwdlh118
Organization: eh?
Distribution: can
Date: Fri, 14 Aug 1992 15:34:32 GMT

In article <2A8B16E4.21EF@telly.on.ca> evan@telly.on.ca (Evan Leibovitch) writes:
>In article <1992Aug12.183229.20025@bwdls61.bnr.ca>
>	clewis@bwdlh118.bnr.ca (Chris Lewis) writes:

>I wan under the impression that the Gardiner and DVP were not allowed
>100kph limits because they were built by Metro and not the province,
>and have poorer designs (way-too-short on-ramps and off-ramps, no
>shoulders, etc).

I don't think that the Gardiner nor DVP need to be "assumed" by the province
in order to become 100Kph.  But they do have to meet the specs.  And they
obviously don't.

>>The QEW is one of the few exceptions
>>(100Kmph without being a 4xx highway).

>Two other examples;

>The Conestoga Parkway(?) from the 401 into Kitchener;

Odd, last time I was there, I coulda sworn it was 80, or perhaps 90.

>Highway 11 from Callander to North Bay, and from Barrie north to
>"Gasoline Alley";

*11*?  You're thinking 400 at least for the Barrie segment.  Methinks.

Then again, Yonge street always was an exception.
Newsgroups: ont.general,can.general,soc.culture.canada,ott.general
From: jnetto@bnr.ca (John Netto)
Subject: Re: 401 and Interstate contrasts
Reply-To: jnetto@bnr.ca (John Netto)
Organization: Bell-Northern Research Ltd.
Distribution: can
Date: Thu, 13 Aug 92 15:58:42 GMT

In article <1992Aug13.041633.19162@bmerh85.bnr.ca>, myhui@bnr.ca (Michael Hui) writes:
|> In article <1992Aug13.012024.16686@bmerh85.bnr.ca> jnetto@bnr.ca (John Netto) writes:
|> >Perhaps the MTO (Min. of Transport of Ont.) should change those "SLOWER TRAFFIC
|> >KEEP RIGHT" signs to "KEEP RIGHT except when passing" !! Some people never
|> >consider that they are SLOWER...
|> 
|> Take the detached unemotional psychologist's view of this, and you'll realize
|> that there are many more possible, even plausible explanations.
|> 
[four points deleted]...
|> 
|> Just pass on the right. Quickly. Carefully.
|> 
|> Of course, if you're up against me, you should be forewarned that I
|> have even taken the above pass-on-the-right maneuver into account, and
|> happen to drive a car that's demonstratably the top 10 in lane change
|> ability at high speed without any loss of stability. In other words, if
|> you pull that on me, you may end up rear-ending me instead, if I happen
|> to be in such a foul mood that I won't let you pass, period.
|> 
|> > This topic has been chewed to death...
|> >
|> > John
|> 
|> Just swallow it then.
|> Ego too big to swallow? Ah. Go see a psychologist then.
|> 
|> Michael MY Hui          myhui@bnr.ca           Ottawa Canada

 Are you flaming me ?? I'm only mentioning what should be done in the best
 interests of all on the road; KEEP RIGHT to begin with. In practice, I do,
 and I also pass LEFT LANE HOGS on the right when I need to.

 BTW: I do not think we are discussing a situation with heavy traffic in all
      lanes.... more like there is no one in front of the JERK .. got it ??
      I stick to traffic flow in heavy traffic....

 Are you a left lane hog ?? If so, then consider a psychologist yourself
 as to why you feel the need for keeping left.. ah ..you pay taxes....

 No flame intended, and I'll pass you on the right any day on a curve at 140km+.
 How's that for ego !!

 John
Xref: sparky ont.general:1531 can.general:3949 soc.culture.canada:5693 ott.general:789
From: meier@Software.Mitel.COM (Rolf Meier)
Newsgroups: ont.general,can.general,soc.culture.canada,ott.general
Subject: Re: sidebar re 401
Date: 11 Aug 92 14:00:31 GMT
Distribution: can
Organization: Mitel. Kanata (Ontario). Canada.

In article <1992Aug7.204028.4262@bnr.ca> dwjz@bnr.ca writes:

>Another misconception is that passing on a single lane highway or freeway
>is only allowed when a dashed/broken line is present.  In Ontario, passing
>is permitted at any time except where prohibited by the use of signs.  The
>lines are merely there to show you where the safe places to pass are.

Thank-you for pointing out this little-known fact.

The general rule is that anything in yellow is a warning (eg ramp speed 30),
and anything in white is enforceable (eg speed limit 50).

_______________________________________________________________________
Rolf Meier					Mitel Corporation
Newsgroups: ont.general,can.general,soc.culture.canada,ott.followup
From: rached@sample.eng.ohio-state.edu (Rached Zantout)
Subject: Re: Refusing to yield right of away out of moral indignation
Organization: The Ohio State University Dept of Electrical Engineering
Date: Wed, 19 Aug 1992 01:50:48 GMT

Steve !

Wouldn't it have been more productive and fast for your wife to call the police
(911 or its equivalent in Canada) ?
I am sure they can get there faster, and would be able to open the door or go
through one of the windows etc...

Just a thought , please no flames.

rached
Newsgroups: ont.general,can.general,soc.culture.canada,ott.general
From: jnetto@bnr.ca (John Netto)
Subject: Re: 401 and Interstate contrasts
Reply-To: jnetto@bnr.ca (John Netto)
Organization: Bell-Northern Research Ltd.
Distribution: can
Date: Thu, 13 Aug 92 01:20:24 GMT

In article <1992Aug12.173230.25293@sq.sq.com>, donald@sq.sq.com (Donald Teed) writes:
|> jnetto@bnr.ca (John Netto) writes:
|> 
|> > I did learn though that most US drivers drive better than I thought. I 
|> > expected them to be the same as OTTAWANS (Ontario??), but was surprised to
|> > learn otherwise. Driving on an Interstate where the 2 lanes were narrowed and
|> > squeezed left at a construction site, traffic managed to get along at the
|> > same speed prior to this 'ostruction'. In OTTAWA, it's been my experience
|> > that traffic slows to a snarl...
|> 
|> > Where did most OTTAWANS learn to drive anyway ?? 
|> 
|> I have a theory about this, having just come off the Interstate route
|> from Boston to Buffalo, and being a regular on the 401.
|> 
|> The highways here have very poor standards with regards to planning
|> merging areas and lengths, and also the number of lanes one must
|> change to in order to get to the right place.  In the U.S., the merge
|> lanes are long and constantly that way - which means that heavy
|> vehicles can merge without causing breaking, lane switching and
|> accidents.  Also the access to the Turnpike/Thruway is controlled
|> by entrance and exit only on the right without the risk of "this
|> lane ends".  Thus traffic flows much smoother and safely.  In Canada,
[...]
|> 
|> --Donald Teed

 Even taking this into account, I noticed the difference between New England
 drivers and Ontarians (Ottawa especially). My only conclusion is that there
 is a tremendous lack of driving skill here amongst most drivers; I've driven
 in Europe too, and had no problem there.

 Perhaps the MTO (Min. of Transport of Ont.) should change those "SLOWER TRAFFIC
 KEEP RIGHT" signs to "KEEP RIGHT except when passing" !! Some people never
 consider that they are SLOWER...
 
 This topic has been chewed to death...

 John
 
 
Newsgroups: ont.general,can.general,soc.culture.canada,ott.general
From: swood@unixg.ubc.ca (Stephen Wood)
Subject: Re: sidebar re 401
Organization: University of British Columbia, Vancouver, B.C., Canada
Distribution: can
Date: Wed, 12 Aug 1992 19:51:48 GMT

In article <1992Aug12.130209.23770@bnr.ca> dwjz@bnr.ca (Doug Zolmer) writes:
>All limited access multi-lane roads are freeways, all others are called
>highways.
>
Except for toll roads.  They are never freeways!

Xref: sparky ont.general:1508 can.general:3929 soc.culture.canada:5668 ott.general:768
From: buckland@ucs.ubc.ca (Tony Buckland)
Subject: Re: Refusing to yield right of away out of moral indignation
Organization: University of B.C. Computing Services
Date: Fri, 21 Aug 1992 18:14:05 GMT

In article <1992Aug20.163604.15081@fozzi.ocunix.on.ca> marc@fozzi.ocunix.on.ca (Marc Donovan) writes:
>> four-way flashers on, beat out SOS on your horn, and/or use the
>> emergency lane.  Believe me, I will get out of your way if it's
>The "emergency lane" in most places IS the left lane!!!

 Sorry, terminological problem.  I was referring to the region
 which sometimes exists (and, I freely admit, sometimes doesn't),
 to the left of all driving lanes but to the right of the unpaved
 median, on freeways.  It is designated for emergency stopping
 only, but is also used by emergency vehicles as an extra lane to
 bypass the traffic, fast, slow or stopped.  You could try using
 it if you have a genuine emergency; but I hope your reflexes and
 brakes are up to the challenge if someone suddenly pulls left into
 it for an emergency stop or to avoid a collision.
Newsgroups: ont.general,can.general,soc.culture.canada,ott.general
From: marc@meadow.uucp (Marc Riehm)
Subject: Re: sidebar re 401
Reply-To: marc@meadow.UUCP (Marc Riehm)
Organization: Amdahl Canada Ltd., Software Development Center
Distribution: can
Date: Sun, 16 Aug 92 13:50:43 GMT

In article <1992Aug12.012013.2494@dgbt.doc.ca> ted@dgbt.doc.ca (Ted Grusec) writes:
>[Yellow lights], going through which in Toronto yields an instant large fine
>(there are cops in every block), means, in Ottawa, accelerate rapidly
>so that the 60 cars behind you can get through while the drivers in
>the crossing road wait, counting to 10.
>-- 
>==========================================================================
>Ted Grusec    Communications Research Centre    (Govt. of Canada, DOC)
> 3701 Carling Ave., Ottawa, Ont.K2H 8S2, CANADA  Internet: ted@dgbt.doc.ca
>  Compuserve: 73607,1576  (613) 998 2762   Fax (613) 993 8657

You must have been driving in a different Toronto than the one I'm familiar
with :).  Sometimes when I push the end of a yellow light in Toronto I take a
paranoid look in my rear-view mirror for a police car and I'm happy to see 2
or 3 other cars following through the light behind me.
-- 
Marc Riehm      Amdahl Canada Ltd., Software Development Center
                2000 Argentia Road, Plaza 2, Suite 300
                Mississauga, Ont.   L5N 1V8
marc@meadow.UUCP
Newsgroups: ont.general,can.general,ott.general
From: rsm@doe.carleton.ca (Raul San Martin)
Subject: Re: sidebar re 401
Organization: Dept. of Electronics, Carleton University
Distribution: can
Date: Wed, 12 Aug 1992 13:09:50 GMT

In <1992Aug11.232621.4155@bmerh85.bnr.ca> jnetto@bnr.ca (John Netto) writes:

>When I told my coworkers about the line 'no-rule',they did not believe me till
> I brought in the HTA copy !! You would be amazed what else is in there....
> John

What else? Please give some examples...

rsm.
Xref: sparky ont.general:1507 can.general:3928 soc.culture.canada:5667 ott.general:767