HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: Richard D Pierce <DPierce@world.std.com>
Newsgroups: rec.audio.high-end
Subject: re: ESL distortion
Date: Sat, 21 Nov 1992 07:06:07 -0500 (EST)
Organization: University of Wisconsin - Milwaukee
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Raymond Chowkwanyun writes:
>Mr. Pierce writes:
>>A variety of measurements (including
>>a number I have performed over the years) demonstrate very clearly that
>>large diaphragm electrostatic drivers not only to not move uniformly, they
>>are particularly terrible in that they suffer as much, if not more, from
>>non-uniform motion as other technologies.
>
>Could you give us the distortion figures at some representative
>figures?  The Linaeum rep I talked to claimed that ESL's suffer
>from increasing distortion towards the higher end of the frequency
>range.  It would be nice to have this confirmed or debunked.
>He, of course, claimed that the Linaeum driver had constant distortion
>over its operating range, including the very high frequencies.

The problem I was talking about was not non-linear distortion, as you
assumed. Rather what I was talking about was the fact that in spite of
relatively unifrom force applied to the diaphragm, there is no gaurantee
the diaphragm will move uniformly in response. This is a myth often touted
by ESL afficianados that isn't supported by reality. 

There is a vision of the diaphragm moving in unison to and fro in slavish
response to the incoming signal. My own and the research of many others
suggest stringly to the contrary. The diaphragm is subject to precisely
the same break-up modes, resonances and such that any tightly streteched
membrane is. This results in a far less than flat frequency response,
bizarre polar patterns and the like.

The issue of non-linear distortion that you refer to is a different issue.
I don't know what the Lineaum rep was talking about, and I suspect he
doesn't either. Both theory and actual measurement clearly show that the
distortion will decrease with increasing frequency, simply because the
diaphragm excursions go as a 1/f^2 relation below the point where the
diaphragm is radiation lod limited, and is linear above that. Now, maybe
Lineaum had problems in development that resulted in early versions of
their stuff having this characteristic, but I have not observed it in my
own experiences.

|                Dick Pierce                |
|    Loudspeaker and Software Consulting    |
| 17 Sartelle Street   Pepperell, MA  01463 |
|       (508) 433-9183 (Voice and FAX)      |
From: bellutta@ohsu.EDU (Paolo Bellutta)
Newsgroups: rec.audio.high-end
Subject: Re: Martin Logan Sequel II
Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1992 19:28:01 GMT
Organization: Oregon Health Sciences University
NNTP-Posting-Host: 129.89.7.4
Originator: tjk@csd4.csd.uwm.edu

Thanks to everyone replied and made suggestions.  It seems that I had
my speakers too close to the back wall.  The suggested formula though, 
resulted in a position that was too far from the rear wall, and 
therefore I had a strong resonance in the mid-low range (at about 200Hz).
Moving the speakers back a little bit (about six inches) made the low
end more uniform.  The equations to compute the position of the speakers
also pointed out that I had the speaker too far apart, but again the 
equation resulted in a too narrow stage, so I spread them out a bit 
(about 1 foot).  Now the balance in the mid-high range is correct, and
I even managed to balance the low end, that I thought was impossible
to do anything about it, since the room was so small.

I also set the tilt to 0 degrees (that is the front panel is perpendicular to  
the floor), and abut 1 inch of toe-in.

Thanks!!!!!

--
La miglior arma inventata dall'uomo e' stata la parola
 _   /|  | Paolo Bellutta ---------- bellutta@ohsu.edu
 \'o.O'  | B.I.C.C - Oregon Health Sciences University
 =(_o_)= | 3181 SW Sam Jackson Park Rd. - Portland, OR
    U    | tel: (503) 494 4804 --- fax: (503) 494 4551
From: dionf@ere.umontreal.ca (Francois Dion)
Newsgroups: rec.audio.high-end
Subject: Sony metal master?
Date: Sat, 21 Nov 1992 18:04:02 GMT
Organization: Universite de Montreal
  (920330.SGI/IDA-1.4.3 for uunet!rec-audio-high-end); Sat, 21 Nov 92 18:04:06 GMT
NNTP-Posting-Host: 129.89.7.4
Originator: tjk@csd4.csd.uwm.edu

Somebody on this list was talking about the TDK MA-XG but i didn't
manage to find any, but in my quest i found a store i never went
before and i found:

Sony Metal master 90 mins for $5.50 CDN. These are ceramic composite
casing tapes with different density guides and a very small window.
I have been able to record more than a dB more than a TDK MA-X and
still get a much better sound. These tapes are 14$ to 19$ at other
stores, so i'm not sure what is the deal... (And if you have not
seen them, they are pretty cool: white with grey guides and
removable writetabs, with a letraset lettering sheet with 5 or 6
of each letters, numbers, punctuation...)

They also had DAT tapes for 7$ which is incredibly low, compared to
the near 20$ prices i have seen elsewhere as i have mentionned in a
previous post, and TDK MA-X 90 at $3.75.

Anyway, are there other similar tape like these (ceramic casing and
high quality tape)? And are the sony metal master durable?

Also, i have not tested that, but will it break if it falls on the
ground? I mean, it's ceramic composite... (they are packaged in
5 packs with foam)

Ciao,
Francois Dion
    '  _   _   _ 
 CISM (_) (_)  _) FM       Montreal , Canada       Email: CISM@ERE.UMontreal.CA
      (_)  / . _)             10000 Watts          Telephone no: (514) 343-7511
_______________________________________________________________________________
Audio-C-DJ-Fractals-Future-Label-Multimedia-Music-Radio-Rave-Video-VR-Volvo-...
From: mikes@moose.cs.indiana.edu (Michael Squires)
Newsgroups: rec.audio.high-end
Subject: Re: Re antique audio
Summary: it wasn't that bad
Keywords: ancient audio
Date: 18 Nov 92 17:03:27 GMT
Organization: Indiana University, Bloomington
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Originator: tjk@csd4.csd.uwm.edu

In article <1edhsaINNfun@uwm.edu> peterca@ento.csiro.au writes:
>While agreeing with Dick Pierce that the speakers of the 1950s were made
>without the benefit of the work of Thiele, Small etal. and as such were
>necessarily a hit and miss approach, I'm sure some of the gear of the era
>is worth salvage.

Some of the professional audio gear of the time still sounds quite good.
I have a pair of University 315-C 15" coax speakers built about 1960 in
two very large infinite baffles.  The sound is not high end, but is
better than the pair of Rogers LS35A's I use in the study.  The University
speakers also have a huge engine, and easily reach sound levels that would
melt the Rogers into slag.  I ran curves on these old speakers once
and found them respectably flat.

In 1978 I heard a real museum system - Decca International arm, Decca 4RC
catridge, Marantz 7/9/10B electronics, double KLH Nine ESL's - all early
60's equipment, state of the art at the time.  It still sounded very good
in comparison to the best equipment at that time, which included the
IMF/Fried monitors, Audio Research/Conrad Johnson amps, etc., etc.

-- 

Mike Squires (mikes@iuvax.cs.indiana.edu)     812 855 3974 (w) 812 333 6564 (h)
mikes@iuvax.cs.indiana.edu          546 N Park Ridge Rd., Bloomington, IN 47408
From: amato@pangea.Stanford.EDU (Jeffrey M. Amato)
Newsgroups: rec.audio.high-end
Subject: VTL Preamp/Amp Info Request
Date: 18 Nov 1992 22:06:08 GMT
Organization: Stanford Univ. Earth Sciences
	(5.61/UUNET-internet-primary) id AB02299; Wed, 18 Nov 92 17:06:18 -0500
Distribution: world
NNTP-Posting-Host: 129.89.7.4
Originator: tjk@csd4.csd.uwm.edu

     I have the opportunity to purchase a pair of VTL 80W Monoblock
amplifiers, and I was wondering if someone could recommend a
tube preamp to go with it. The cheapest VTL preamp, the VTL Integrator, has 2 
separate volume knobs to handle the balance, and I've found this to be
inconvenient.  The VTL Maximal preamp has separate volume and balance, 
but of course it is more expensive.  It also has a phono output, but
most of my listening is either CD or cassette tape.            
     I can't audition the two together, so I was hoping
that someone out there has experience with either or both of them.
Or, if there are other tube preamps in the < $6-700 price range,
I would welcome any comments on those.  
     In addition to preamp advice, does someone out there _have_ the
VTL 80W monoblocks, and if so, how reliable are they?  What types of
speakers do you have set up with them?
     I'm new at this high end stuff, but I like what I hear of the 
tube sound...replies can be either posted or emailed to         

amato@pangea.stanford.edu

Thanks, 
Jeff

P.S. Music prefs: Neil Young, Van Morrison, Grateful Dead, 
		  Mozart and Verdi choral works, opera, 
		  Coltrane, etc.
From: rjn@hpfcla.fc.hp.com (Bob Niland)
Newsgroups: rec.audio.high-end
Subject: Re: dcc
Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1992 18:32:15 GMT
Organization: Hewlett-Packard/WSY Ft.Collins,CO,USA
Reply-To: rjn@hpfcla.fc.hp.com
NNTP-Posting-Host: 129.89.7.4
Originator: tjk@csd4.csd.uwm.edu

Blair P. Houghton (bhoughto@sedona.intel.com) wrote:

>  Isn't $800 a ridiculously low price for what is the first of a line of
>  equipment for a new technology (Philips' first DCC deck is MSRP'ed at
>  $799)?

I consider it a ridiculously high price for something that will PLAY the
older analog cassette format, but which for purely marketing reasons will
NOT RECORD the older format.

* If you do not already own a cassette recorder, consider very carefully
  whether or not this arbitrary license-enforced-limitation on DCC decks
  will be a problem for you.  Let me repeat:  No DCC deck is ALLOWED to
  record analog cassettes.  So what? - you say - most people already own a
  cassette recorder...

* Well if you do already own a cassette deck, does DCC offer the equivalent
  of what that same $800 would buy you in a DAT deck?  In terms of fidelity,
  I suggest not.  DCC might be slightly more convenient for portable and
  mobile applications, but frankly for those environments, metal analog
  cassette with Dolby B or C is already perfectly satisfactory.

Regards,                                              Hewlett-Packard
Bob Niland      Internet: rjn@FC.HP.COM               3404 East Harmony Road
                CompuServe:  71044,2124               Ft Collins CO 80525-9599

This article represents only the opinion[s] of its author, and is not an
official or unofficial position of, or statement by, the Hewlett-Packard
Company.  The text is provided for informational purposes only.  It is
supplied without warranty of any kind.
From: kucharsk@Solbourne.COM (William Kucharski)
Newsgroups: rec.audio.high-end
Subject: Re: Hum Problem - Cheap fix.
Date: 16 Nov 1992 00:26:37 -0700
Organization: Solbourne Computer, Inc., Longmont, CO
Distribution: world
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Originator: tjk@csd4.csd.uwm.edu

While reading article <1e0e10INNg3b@uwm.edu>, I noticed that
Mitchell.Erblich@EBay.Sun.COM said the following:
 >I solved a hum problem caused by my cable company.  The solution is to
 >get (2) coax to UHF/VHF connectors.  I bought them both from
 >radio/shack.  One has the wires coming out and the other had 2 screws.
 >The idea is to connect the connector with wires to the one with screws
 >and then continue with the coax to the VCR.  This will eliminate any
 >voltage on the line that causes hum.  These connectors cost about $2.99
 >each, so this is also a cheap fix.

Please note that although this will fix the hum problem, you will creates
another, namely a signal "leak" into your cable system.  While this won't be
bad enough to affect other cable customers, if you have a medical paging
service anywhere nearby forget about watching cable channels 19, 20 and 21.

(P.S.:  If you DO have a paging service nearby, although it's expensive the
	Mondial MAGIC box works like a charm...)
-- 
| William Kucharski, Solbourne Computer, Inc.     | Opinions expressed above
| Internet: kucharsk@solbourne.com   Ham: N0OKQ   | are MINE alone, not those
| Snail Mail: 1900 Pike Road, Longmont, CO  80501 | of Solbourne Computer, Inc.
| President, "Just the Ten of Us" Fan Club        | "Dittos from Longmont, CO"
From: dfk0@ns1.cc.lehigh.edu (David F. Keppel)
Newsgroups: rec.audio.high-end
Subject: Re: Questions about recording formats
Date: Tue, 17 Nov 1992 01:33:27 GMT
Organization: Lehigh University
NNTP-Posting-Host: 129.89.7.4
Originator: tjk@csd4.csd.uwm.edu

In article <1e89i0INNjsu@uwm.edu>, clueless@cs1.bradley.edu (Matthew Simmons) wr
ites:
>Can somebody help me find some background information for a speech?
>
>I need to know the names of the inventors (companies or people, preferably
>company names) of LP's, 8-tracks, and tapes....  (CD's were invented jointly
>between Sony and Phillips, right?)....  I also need to know how an 8-track
>works....

 The compact cassette medium was invented by Phillips.

>Obligatory audiophile question:
>
>       I just got the Stereophile Test CD I, and was listening to the 1st
>musical track....  The one with the marching band.... Is that supposed to
>sound horrible?  I mean, are they screwing up the song, or have I just never
>heard it before?

Yes, its supposed to sound that bad.  Probably due to the technology
at the time. Remember we are talking about recording technology as it was
in 1948.  I think JGH put that track in as a piece of nostalgia, since it
was he who did the recording at the time using a very ancient; large;
expensive; tubed tape recorder.

I consider the S'phile test cds better than the usual "test tone" only
variety.  The songs can be enjoyed w/o serious evaluations.
-- 
    ###########################################################################
   ###        David F. Keppel -  The Computing Center -  Ext. 84019        ###
  ###        179  E.W. Fairchild/Martingdale Library Bldg. 8B             ###
 ###########################################################################
From: oracle!us.oracle.com!on@uunet.UU.NET (On G. Paradise)
Newsgroups: rec.audio.high-end
Subject: Jung on Audio Line Drivers (Re: SPDIF jitter)
Date: Sat, 14 Nov 1992 07:46:14 GMT
Organization: Oracle Corp., Redwood Shores CA
	(queueing-rmail) id 070704.28368; Sat, 14 Nov 1992 07:07:04 EST
NNTP-Posting-Host: 129.89.7.4
Originator: tjk@csd4.csd.uwm.edu

paul@gaitlab1.uwaterloo.ca (paul j guy) writes:
>                 ... I don't have any reliable or trustworthy articles
>that show any clear audible effects of jitter.

Even 100 ps of DAC jitter should be measureable: see ``Ask the
Applications Engineer'' in the current issue of Analog Dialog.

Also in this issue is an excellent discussion of fast line drivers by
Walter Jung, who will discuss audio line drivers in the next issue.

Analog Dialog should be available for the asking from your nearest
Analog Devices sales office.

On (no affiliation with AD -- just a happy customer) Paradise
From: Andy Sheen <sheen@src.bae.co.uk>
          Tue, 17 Nov 92 08:16:27 GMT
Newsgroups: rec.audio.high-end
Subject: Re: Why digitize: some bunk
Date: Tue, 17 Nov 92 08:16:27 GMT
Organization: University of Wisconsin - Milwaukee
          id <g.12106-0@ben.uknet.ac.uk>; Thu, 19 Nov 1992 01:34:18 +0000
          id <14041-0@eros.uknet.ac.uk>; Thu, 19 Nov 1992 01:33:54 +0000
NNTP-Posting-Host: 129.89.7.4
Originator: tjk@csd4.csd.uwm.edu



hsu@ecf.toronto.edu (HSU TITUS HENG-HSUEH) writes:

>...someone has propsed that although
> we cannot 'hear' anything above 20kHz, but the frequency components all the
> way up to 90kHz have influences on what we hear.  This may explain why
> the new systems strive for a higher sampling rate, and people commonly
> acknowledge that higher sampling rate helps.  Pioneer's new Legato system
> does just that.  Legato analyzes the frequency content within the 20-20k
> bandwidth, and extrapolate the infor above 20k.  Martin Colloms has reported
> good results with the Legato system.  

It was my impression (via Audiophile) that the Legato system didn't do any
analysis of the signal, it merely didn't put a brick wall filter at 22kHz,
just a lower order filter (I think it's first order).  This has two side
effects:

1) Reduces phase distortions inside the audible band.
2) Allows contributions from the band up to 22.05kHz, but actually
   appearing reflected at 22.05kHz (i.e. 22.0kHz produces an output at
   22.1kHz etc), through to the analogue output.

Pioneer claim that this is better as it is more representative of the type
of filtering available in the real world and hence sounds better. Does
anyone know the definitive answer to how Legato works ?
From: davidric@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (david ricardo)
Subject: Opinions on B&K amps/preamps
Organization: University of Illinois at Urbana
Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1992 07:30:41 GMT

I am about to purchase B&K CS 115 preamp and a B&K ST120 60Wper channel
amp. Does anyone have an opinion on B&K equipment. I am getting a very nice
40% discount on these since I am buying Snell Type EIII speakers as well.


-- 

| Ricardo David              RacerX Engineering              |
| University of Illinois          ...keep them mowing        |
| davidric@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu                 blades sharp ... |
From: 2ftscorset@kuhub.cc.ukans.edu
Newsgroups: rec.audio
Subject: Analog to Digital in REAL TIME?
Date: 20 Nov 92 16:15:41 GMT
Organization: University of Kansas Academic Computing Services


This is probably the wrong place to post this, or perhaps it is
a FAQ, but I will ask it anyway since you all probably know....

Is there a board for a MS-DOS computer that will change analog
audio into digital in real time?  

I suppose the sound blaster, or some facsimilie does it, but I dont
have one, or know the specs.  

Question 2:  Is there a kit or perhaps a set of schematics for such a
board ( I want the board, but I want to make some minor alterations,
therfore I don't want to hassle with pre-made stuff if I can help it.)

Anyone who knows, thanks for your help.

Allen
E-mail to 2fttodium,2ftscorset @kuhub.cc.ukans.edu
or SYLVESTER@oread.cc.ukans.edu
Newsgroups: rec.audio
From: ted@dgbt.doc.ca (Ted Grusec)
Subject: Re: ELITIST SNOBS
Organization: The Communications Research Centre
Date: Tue, 17 Nov 92 04:18:02 GMT

In article <1992Nov17.002041.10751@nas.nasa.gov> fineberg@nas.nasa.gov writes:
>|> |> |> 
>|> |> |> 
>|> |> |> >TO TELL YOU THE TRUTH, MY $200 SOUNDESIGN SYSTEM SOUNDS
>|> |> |> >JUST AS GOOD.  THE BASS SOUNDS JUST AS BIG!  THE SECRET
>|> |> |> >IS TO ADJUST THE BASS CONTROL TO MAX.  TRY IT ON SOME
>|> |> |> >OF THESE CHEAPER SYSTEMS.  IT REALLY CAN MAKE A DIFFERENCE!!!!
>|> |> |> >ADJUST THE SYSTEM BEFORE YOU JUDGE!  GEEESH HOW HARD
>|> |> |> >CAN IT BE???
>|> |> |> 

You were robbed.  I can put together a system to your specs for
$19.25.
-- 
-----------------------------------------------------------------
Ted Grusec - Communications Research Centre, Ottawa, Ont., Canada
Newsgroups: rec.audio
From: rodiers@JSP.UMontreal.CA (Rodier Stephane)
Subject: comments on Mordaunt-Short speakers ?
Followup-To: rodiers@JSP.UMontreal.Ca 
Organization: Universite de Montreal
Date: Sun, 15 Nov 1992 18:25:35 GMT

     Does anyone has any comments on the Mordaunt-Short`s speakers
low end production.....thank you in advance.


rodiers@JSP.UMontreal.Ca

Steph....
From: myers@hpfcso.FC.HP.COM (Bob Myers)
Date: Mon, 16 Nov 1992 21:26:44 GMT
Subject: Re: Help!
Organization: Hewlett-Packard, Fort Collins, CO, USA
Newsgroups: rec.audio

> Could somebody tell me the names of the inventors of:
> 
> 	The record

Thomas A. Edison.

> 
> 	The 8-track

Don't know.
> 
> 	The cassette

Phillips (or more properly, a group of engineers at Phillips - whose name
is on the patent, I don't know.)
> 
> 	The CD (phillips & sony?)

Yup.


Bob Myers  KC0EW   Hewlett-Packard Co.      |Opinions expressed here are not
                   User Interface Tech. Div.|those of my employer or any other
myers@fc.hp.com    Fort Collins, Colorado   |sentient life-form on this planet.
Newsgroups: rec.audio
From: ssr@cypress.com (Bapcha/FPGA)
Subject: Re: Dolby C
Keywords: Dolby 
Organization: Cypress Semiconductor, San Jose, CA
Date: Mon, 16 Nov 1992 22:05:18 GMT

In article <1992Nov16.140041.23154@news.columbia.edu> gmw1@cunixa.cc.columbia.edu (Gabe M Wiener) writes:
>
>Dolby C is dynamic, Dolby B is static.  The compression effect changes
>throughout a Dolby C recording.  As such, you *cannot* readily play it
>back on a machine without Dolby C, whereas you certainly can play a Dolby
>B tape back on a machine sans Dolby.
>
>Playing a Dolby C tape back w/o Dolby C will give, ah, less than desirable
>results.
>

NOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!  Dolby B and C have similar ways of compensating
for the hiss on a tape (assuming a zero noise source).  B compensates by
10dB and C; by 20dB.  Hence if you record Dolby C,  and play it back on Dolby
B,  just use the treble control to cut 10dB (oh well - till it sounds less
"shrill"),  and you'll be all set !!

-- 
Bapcha - A very bad boy from Cypress Semiconductor
3901 N.  First Strasse
San Jose,  CA 95134, 408-943-2719
From: kz08+@andrew.cmu.edu (Ken Zuroski)
Newsgroups: rec.audio
Subject: can't wear no headphones
Date: 23 Nov 92 02:05:58 GMT
Organization: Doctoral student, English, Carnegie Mellon, Pittsburgh, PA

Hi:

I posted this in a couple of other newsgroups, got only a couple of responses,
and so I thought I would try here.

Does anyone else have the problem that I do: namely, not being able to
wear headphones without ears hurting? First, I don't play the headphones
very loud at all--I don't think that I'm using excessive volume; I usually
can hear ambient room noise over the music--sometimes to the exclusion of
the music. Second, since someone suggested to me that it might be my
cheapo open-air Walkman headphones that were the culprit, I threw those
away and bought some better phones--not great ones, true, but as good as
my budget can afford at the moment (Sony MDR CD350, for about $55). They
go over my ears as opposed to setting on top of them; it was also suggested
that I might be experiencing comfort problems with the hardware itself
and not with the sound per se, and so I made a point of getting a type that
fits over the ears. 

Well, they're better perhaps, but my ears still ache after about an hour
of listening to music, and so it looks like I'm not going to be able to
wear any phones at all (which is a shame, since I spend so much time
studying and music helps my concentration). I've got a little Walkman-type
equalizer which I hook up inline with the phones; I notice that when I
decrease the bass and treble my ears seem not to get as fatigued quite
as quickly, though eventually they do begin to ache. I don't want to
mess with my hearing, and so I'm about ready to get rid of these headphones
once and for all. Any suggestions or comments? Anyone else out there
unable to tolerate headphones?

Many thanks

Ken

---
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Ken Zuroski
Department of English
Carnegie Mellon University
Pittsburgh, PA 15213 USA
kz08@cmu.edu
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~