HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: lewis@titan.trl.oz.au (Ian Lewis)
Subject: Re: Rubber Valves
Organization: Telecom Research Labs, Melbourne, Australia
Date: Wed, 19 Aug 1992 06:29:50 GMT

From article <9645@cayman.COM>, by pgf@cayman.COM (Paul Fox):
> etxorst@eos.ericsson.se (Torsten Lif) writes:
> : 
> : Does this ring a bell with anybody outside Scandinavia?
> : 
> : The central part of this valve mechanism (both literally and
> : figuratively) is a small, hollow, metallic stem, about the same
> : diameter as a Presta valve. It's open at the outer end but at the inner
> : end the opening is in the sidewall. A short (1 cm / 0.5 in) piece of
> : rubber tubing over the inner end allows air to pass in one direction
> : but not the other. The stem is inserted in something that vaguely
> : resembles a Schrader valve and is held in place by a special nut.
> 
> This kind of bicycle valve is also used extensively (at least it used to be,
> and probably still is) in India.  I don't know about other Asian countries.
> I always assumed it was cheaper to make/repair than schraeder valves (which
> _are_ used on automobiles in India).  But maybe it has older history, if
> they're also used in Scandinavia...
> 

I don't know where everyone else spent their youth, but I remember this
style of valve as being the norm on all except racing bikes which used
the presta style.  Puncture repair kits used to come with one or two of
these rubber tubes.  There was also a variation in which the valve was
internal to the insert which was help in place by the special nut.  I
used mostly this type for years (and thus had little use for the rubber
tubes in the repair kits) but occasionally the rubber tube variety.  My
father was also very familiar with these and came from England so I
assume they were common there also.

They probably disappeared when people discovered how much easier it was
to use the air hose at the local garage (this from experience!).  Just
another one of those things that was but is no more!  The guys at my
local bike shop weren't even aware that Simplex brand derailleurs
existed and yet I remember when they were extremely common.
Ian Lewis,			Voice: +61 3 253 6317	   Fax: +61 3 253 6144
Telecommunications Research Laboratories
Australian and Overseas Telcommunications Corporation
P.O. Box 249, Clayton, Victoria 3168, AUSTRALIA
Internet: i.lewis@trl.oz.au
X400:    g=ian s=lewis ou=trl o=telecom prmd=telecom006 admd=telememo c=au
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles
From: schinder@leprss.gsfc.nasa.gov (Paul J. Schinder)
Subject: Re: What cold weather bike shoe?
Reply-To: schinder@leprss.gsfc.nasa.gov
Organization: Goddard Space Flight Center
Date: Fri, 14 Aug 1992 16:14:42 GMT

In <Bsz3IK.EJJ@watserv1.uwaterloo.ca> praetzel@marconi.uwaterloo.ca (Eric Praetzel) writes:

>In article <1992Aug13.144949.16618@ncs.com> dick@ncs.com writes:
>>Is there a decent winter shoe?
>  None that I or my friends have seen.  I find that booties work but only
>down to about 5C and then only for a little while.  No combination of
>socks inside/outside and/or plastic bags/booties has kept my feet warm for
>any length of time.

I still have a pair of Beta Wintours which I try to use as little as
possible, since they're no longer made and they *do* work in cold
weather, at least for me.  But they're constructed like Beta Bikers (a
"cycling sneaker" also no apparently no longer made) and don't take
cleats.

>  So the natural solution is to heat your foot.  If you are good with a 
>soldering iron and know some basic electronics then build yourself some
>heaters.  Basically I use 10 resistors of the 1/8 W variety but I would
>recommend using 5 * 1/4W.  You solder them into a chain which goes under
>your toes.  Carry some nicads and there you are.  Heat for as long as the
>batteries last.
>  Problems:
>    1) The resistors are too hot.  Since you can't feel absolute temperature
>         this feels like your feet are freezing while you are getting burnt by
>         the resistors.  If you can't hold them with your hand don't put them
>         under your feet.
>    2) Wires breaking.  With all the flex and lack of applicable experience most
>         people have trouble with wires braking. 
>    3) Wires shorting.  After they break they sometimes do short.  This is very
>         spectular because the nicads will put out enough current to melt the
>         wire.  If you run the wires under your tights like I do you must make
>         sure that this is a very very rare thing.
>Its a bit of a pain using a fanny pack to carry a 12V stack of D sized
>nicads but you can also use it to power a headlight.  Right now I am playing
>with a 30 to 100W headlight that runs off 12V (for $4 I could not refuse trying
>a car headlight).  More details on that later when I have done some real life
>tests.

Or you can go to a hunting supply store and buy some electric socks,
which saves you the trouble of making your own.  My brother bought me
some once (for x-c skiing, but keeping warm while skiing is never a
problem).  I've used them for bicycling around 32 F.  They *are* too
hot at the beginning, and two nicad D cells will run down before the
end of an hour, leaving your sweaty feet cold.  The batteries at least
fit in a jersey pocket.  I stopped using them after a few rides.

>  - Eric 
>//  Has there been one month this past year when you have not worn leg warmers
>//    or a Lifa undershirt?

Every one of them :-). 
--
--------
Paul J. Schinder
NASA Goddard Space Flight Center
schinder@leprss.gsfc.nasa.gov
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles
From: weird@cbnewsf.cb.att.com (john.t.erhardt)
Subject: Re: bar-end shifters
Organization: AT&T
Date: Thu, 20 Aug 1992 14:26:34 GMT

In article <19480@drutx.ATT.COM> r.g.olsen@att.com writes:
>|> Also, what's the likelihood that I could get just the shifter for the rear?
>
>	I recently put Shimano 600 Ultegra bar-end shifters on my road
>	bike, replacing Shimano 105 down-tube shifters.
>	I got them at Excel for $45.  They came as a set,
>	complete with down-tube cable stops, cable housing, and
>	derailleur cables.  I don't think you'd be able to get
>	just the rear barcon shifter unless you found a used
>	one somewhere.  They are available in 6/7 or 8-speed versions.
>	The Ultegra barcons are compatible with Ultegra and 105, but
>	not Dura Ace; there is a separate 8-speed Dura Ace barcon.

I don't know what the difference could be.  I've got Shimano RX100 down tube
shifters and two hyperglide cassettes (one on the training wheels and a spare
one) which shift quite nicely.  I have a non hyperglide 7 speed Dura Ace
cassette on my race wheels which shift just as well.  It's not as fast
but that's probably because the Dura Ace is not hyperglide.  So, I'd
bet if I got the Ultegra barcon it would shift just as well on either
cassette.  Any one else tried this?

John
From: sfleming@cs.hw.ac.uk (Stewart Fleming)
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles
Subject: Bottom Bracket woes
Date: 12 Aug 92 12:12:24 GMT
Reply-To: sfleming@cs.hw.ac.uk
Organization: Computer Science Dept, Heriot-Watt University, Edinburgh



Does anyone still have the list of recommendations of what to do with
seized bottom bracket cups ?  There was a thread going round here a while
back which I didn't save.

The problem is this :  I wanted to get a new sealed BB fitted, so I took
my old bike to the shop for fitting.  When I collected it this morning,
I was told that the adjustable cup had seized in the threads and
could not be removed.  Now, this might be OK, if the "mechanic" in the
shop had not taken a hammer to the adjustable cup and deformed the
slots where the remover tool fits.  No normal approach is ever going
to shift that cup now.

If I can't get the BB removed,then I need a new frame.  One of the extreme
methods discussed in this newsgroup a while back might help get the cups
removed.  Alternatively, I need some advice as to the liability of the
shop in not carrying out the repair competently.

Thanks for any help or advice,
STF
--
sfleming@cs.hw.ac.uk                        ...ukc!cs.hw.ac.uk!sfleming
"He not only moved the goalposts, he dug up the pitch
   and took the ball home as well."
From: jan@dcs.qmw.ac.uk (Jan Wysocki)
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles
Subject: Re: Objects thrown at cyclists (and hugh@nezsdc)
Date: 14 Aug 92 11:34:24 GMT
Reply-To: jan@dcs.qmw.ac.uk
Organization: Vision Laboratory, Queen Mary & Westfield College.

In article <1992Aug13.120708.12278@aifh.ed.ac.uk>, cam@aifh.ed.ac.uk (Chris Malcolm) wrote:
|> 
|> In decades of daily commuting by bicycle I was once hit by a cigar butt,
|> and once missed by an empty drink can, but they weren't thrown at me,
|> simply tossed carelessly out of the window. Is the deliberate throwing
|> of things at cyclists restricted to "grown up" US citizens?
|> -- 
Well, no actually, Chris.  I had a wine bottle half full of water
thrown at me earlier this year in the Clerkenwell Road.  Luckily it hit
my handlebar bag rather than me.  I have every reason to suppose it was
thrown deliberately and I'm also pretty certain that I had done nothing
to provoke an attack.

To add my 2 cents worth, my limited experience of a 3 week cycle tour
in the USA, on the East Coast was a lot less fraught than cycling in
Britain.  I've also driven (sorry:-) in the mid west. US car drivers
are generally relaxed, courteous and slow.  I encountered just one
obnoxious driver in a jacked up pickup.  In Britain I meet several
equally obnoxious drivers every day. The only reckless US driving I
have seen is on tv & in films!  My foreign cycling experience covers:
USA, France, Holland, Italy, Poland, Czechoslovakia, Wales and
Scotland.  Of these, Czechoslovakia and the USA have by far the most
pleasant driver attitudes.

--- "Ride Bike: One less car!             (Pity it's not a Volvo :-(" ---

          Jan Wysocki                 |  Computer Science Department,
                                      |  Queen Mary and Westfield College,
 email:    jan@dcs.qmw.ac.uk          |  Mile End Road,
'phone:   +44 (0)71 975 5230          |  London.  E1 4NS
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles
From: cathyf@is.rice.edu (Catherine Anne Foulston)
Subject: Re: what energy drink do you use?
Organization: Rice University
Date: Thu, 13 Aug 1992 06:33:40 GMT

In article <1992Aug12.131226.8456@nntp.hut.fi> ovr@vipunen.hut.fi (Otto-Ville Ronkainen) writes:
>I may consider experimenting with aluminum bottles or thermos flasks (for
>winter).
                                   ^^^^^^^^

I have this horrible vision of a cyclist weaving all over the road
while trying to remove the all-aluminum bottle that is frozen to his
tongue, now that his tea has cooled off.  Ugh.  Presumably what I'm
picturing in bottles is not quite what you meant.  :-)

	Cathy
-- 
Cathy Foulston + Rice University + Network & Systems Support + cathyf@rice.edu
Actually I'm not clueless.  I'm conceptually challenged.
Important rule for out-and-back rides:  what goes down must come up.
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles
From: brister@decwrl.dec.com (James Brister)
Subject: Re: Descending hills
Organization: DEC Western Software Lab
Date: 17 Aug 92 17:11:34

On 17 Aug 92 18:58:28 GMT, BRANDT_JOBST/HP1900_01@HPLOMG.HPL.HP.COM said:

> From the description, overturning sounds like it might be a problem when
> descending.  This seems a bit strong from my experience.

Did anyone notice the incident in the TdF (Alp d'Huez stage, I think), when
Gianni Bugno hit spectator and fell, and Robert Millar (who right behind
Bugno) slammed on his front brake and went way up on his front wheel (didn't
go over, though). He must have going pretty fast to be able to do that
going *up* a hill that probably had a slope of at least 10% at that point
(right in the middle of a hairpin turn).

James
--
James Brister                                           brister@wsl.pa.dec.com
DEC Western Software Lab., Palo Alto, CA                        decwrl!brister
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles
From: tye@elvis.mit.edu (Tye Brady)
Subject: Re: OPINIONS: Trek 2100/2300, C'dale 2.8, B'stone RB-1
Organization: Massachvsetts Institvte of Technology
Date: Thu, 20 Aug 1992 20:07:51 GMT

I currently own a 58 cm 90 Trek 2300 with 7 spd Ultegra and a 56 cm 92 2.8  
Dale with DuraAce STI.  So how do they fare?

History:
2 years racing on Trek.
1 year racing on 2.8 Dale.
~200 mi/week training with RR/Crit/TT on weekends.

I currently race 100% with the Dale.

How they compare relative to each other:

The Dale is lighter and definately a criterium animal with the STI.   
Putting the power to the bicycle is more responsive than the Trek.
Cornering is tight and responsive.  I have suffered from a few bad crashes  
this season and the frame is still ok, although a small dent has been put  
into the top tube from an ugly pile-up crash.  Bike shop experts say it is  
cosmetic and I tend to agree with them.  The Trek frame has seen some  
crashes and has not suffered even cosmetically.

Climbing is top notch with the Trek.  Carbon Fibre and non-STI make this a  
winning ticket.  If it is rolly, out of seat climbing though, I drift  
towards the STI and the jump-ability of the Dale.  Also the 8 spd for the  
backside of the MTN is nice (12:25 = Zoom).  I further like the Dale for  
high speed decents.  It just seems to be a bit more solid.

I have no manufacturing style problems with either ever. 

Also, when comparing bikes, be careful about "handling qualities" if the  
bike is not properly fit.  Both of my bikes do fit, so I believe I can  
make a decent judgement about the characteristics.
 
I made getting good componetry a top priority when purchasing my bike this  
season. I bought D/Ace STI Grouppo, Mavic wheels and stem, Time  
pedals/shoes and had ~600 dollars left and decided that the 2.8 Dale  
matched this seasons needs and could not be beat in the frame  
performance/$$ category.

Hey, hope this helps and good luck with the choice,
tye

--------------------------------
my .sig is out riding
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles
From: arnie@col.hp.com (Arnie Berger)
Subject: Re: Drillium
Date: Thu, 13 Aug 1992 15:14:08 GMT
Organization: HP Colorado Springs Division

kmb@controls.ccd.harris.com (Kurt Brunton) writes:
> 
>I have some old components sitting around and the thought occurred to me
> of drilling these out to make some light weight parts.  Is there anyone 
> who knows  of the best way to drill components, i.e. where to drill and 
> how much can be  drilled before substantially weakening the component.  
> I've got old nouvo and  super record, mavic, shimano 600 and dura ace 
> stuff.  E-mail or post.  Thanks,
 
> Kurt 


I'd have to go back to my old metallurgy texts to verify this, but there 
was a rule of thumb called "St. Venet's Principle", which dates back to
a monk in the 15th or 16th century. Anyway, Fr. Venet noticed that when 
a hole was drilled into something, the strength of the material was 
affected in an area roughly equal to the diameter of the hole all around
the hole. Thus, if you have a 1" diameter hole in a metal plate, you could
say that there is a 3" diameter region with the hole as its center that is
weakened by the presence on the hole itself. To put that in cycling terms,
if you drill a hole in the seat post, the diameter of the hole should not
be comparable to the dimensions of the seat post. In other words, drill
small holes.

                                                           Arnie


-- 
Arnie Berger
arnie@hplsdvt
Telnet 590-5642
From: ekp@mcnc.org (Edward Pavelchek)
Subject: Re: Gas subsidies and taxes (was Re: Bicycle Paths
Organization: Good place for a disclaimer
Date: Mon, 17 Aug 1992 23:41:50 GMT

In article <1992Aug17.124950.8720@iccgcc.decnet.ab.com> caseb@iccgcc.decnet.ab.com writes:

>If the tax does not internalize the environmental cost of gas use, then
>it simply reduces economic activity and our standard of living.  
>Is that what we want?  Are we sure that burning gas will destroy the
>planet?  Who is going to decide how low our standard of living should be
>in order to save the world?

As long as the gas tax does not exceed previous total levels of
taxation, why would it destroy our standard of living?  The same way
(rightly or wrongly) that tariffs encourage local industry, a gas tax
discourages burning petroleum.  As long as the total tax burden is
unchanged, effects on the economy as a whole should be modest.
-- 
And if your hand or foot offend you,         Ed Pavelchek   ekp@mcnc.org
  Cut it off, lad, and be whole;
But play the man, stand up and end you,
  When your sickness is your soul.           AE Housman
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles
From: gorrie@hercules (Dennis Gorrie)
Subject: Re: Canada and Sports Eats
Reply-To: gorrie@hercules.uregina.ca (Dennis Gorrie)
Organization: University of Regina, Regina, Saskatchewan
Date: Wed, 19 Aug 1992 06:57:17 GMT

In article <1992Aug14.074344.1@kean.ucs.mun.ca> mnewton@kean.ucs.mun.ca writes:
[lots of stuff deleted]
>Now the dept of health think that people might try to live off Power Bars!
>Evidently the bars contain a lot of vitamin A and this can be toxic in 
>large quantities.
>
>Michael Newton
>Grenfell College
>Corner Brook
>NF
>

This smells like a bunch of bull to me.  If you consider the amount of
powerbars you would have to eat to approach 'toxic' levels, its just plain
silly.  If you ate equivalent amounts (by weight) of oranges, you could
have toxic reaction to the ascorbic acid.  Or if you were to eat an
equivalent amount of bananas, you might experience potassium fever. 

This isn't about health care concerns, its just politics.
From: bruce@ersys.edmonton.ab.ca (Bruce Thornhill)
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles
Subject: Re: Gas Taxes R Us
Date: Tue, 18 Aug 92 18:52:47 MDT
Organization: Edmonton Remote Systems #3, Edmonton, AB, Canada

tomk@netcom.com (Thomas H. Kunich) writes:

- Well, the social reformers are crying on our shoulders
- again. It is pretty plain to most people that
- transportation alternatives are a tricky and very
- complicated subject.
- 
- Yet, I do admit that mass transportation would solve many
- social ills infecting our world. I just think that they
- will improve through evolution, not revolution which is the
- really what the tax equation amounts to.

I am afraid, my American friend, that you don't know the meaning of 
'gas taxes'.  $0.50 litre up to $0.70 litre _is_ gas tax.  Translates 
roughly to $2.00+ gallon.  That's what happens when you take a bigger 
country and scatter 1/10 of the US population throughout it.


                         __   __        ___   ___
                        |__) |__) |  | |     |__    
                        |__) |  \ |__| |___  |___

                          @ersys.edmonton.ab.ca
From: BRANDT_JOBST/HP1900_01@HPLOMG.HPL.HP.COM
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles
Subject: Re: Descending hills
Date: 17 Aug 92 18:58:36 GMT

Charles writes:

> I heard a story about a guy in a road race being handed a water bottle full
> of lead (Pb) at the start of a long descent. Around 8kg (17.6 lbs) extra!

It is an often told story but it isn't true.  A water bottle weighs about
one pound, lead has a density of 11.5 and therefore would make an 11.5 pound
load on the bottle cage.  As we know from experience, all but the most well
maintained highways have been known to dislodge bottles and and even break
bottle cages.  With more than 10 times the load, a bottle would not stay
put unless a special holder were made.

This is like the story of filling a guy's seat tube with lead weights to
slow him down.  Some netters may recall this fable from earlier this year.
Honest, my friend actually saw this... and other phrases come to mind.

jobst_brandt@hplabs.hp.com
From: sridar@nil.mni.mcgill.ca (Sridar Narayanan)
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles
Subject: Re: Bicycle Paths
Date: 13 Aug 92 23:46:21 GMT
Organization: NeuroImaging Laboratory, Montreal Neurological Institute

This is in response to Paul J. Schinder's (ri)post.

Paul
According to an article just posted, they are legally multi-use paths.
The signs are there probably just to indicate that you're allowed to
bicycle on them.


Sridar
If it's the same post, it was just a general comment on "most paths
in North America".  I'll check with the local police when I have
time.  However, these paths look pretty special-purpose to me.


Paul
>and footpaths parallel to the paths for just about the entire
>length.  So why should pedestrians use the bike paths?  Do they
>walk in the middle of the roads?

How about because they're public right-of-ways built with public
money.  (Do you bicycle in the middle of roads when it's safe to stay
right?)  I'll bet you don't even have the usual motorhead excuse of
"user fees" to bring up; I'd guess these paths are built with general
revenues rather than special taxes on bicycles and accesories.


Sridar
Who cares where the funding came from?  Do you bike or roller-skate
in public libraries?  As for riding in traffic, slow traffic (incl. bikes)
should stay in the right lane.  If the lane is wide enough for a
driver to safely pass you, stay right.  So, no, I don't ride in the
middle of the road.  Why?  It's unsafe, and shows disrespect to drivers.


Paul
>There are general recreation paths in most parks, and especially
>on Mount Royal.  These are shared, and rightly so.  Cyclists here
>should keep the speed down and enjoy the scenery.  (But watch out
>for pedestrians, clinching lovers and runaway baby carriages (-:) )
>My point is that peds should stay off the high speed commuter bike
>paths.

And, by this logic, bikes should stay off roads, where they might
interfere with commuting motorists.


Sridar
Bikes *should* stay off highways and expressways, where speed limits
range from 70 - 100 kph, with actual speeds even higher.  If there's
a paved shoulder, fine, but biking on a highway proper is *extremly*
dangerous.  There's no time for a driver to react to your presence.
Note that highways here have minimum speed limits as well,
typically 60 kph on a 100 kph highway.

On city streets, bikes have speeds slower than but comparable to cars.
The closing speed of a car overtaking a bike is low enough for a driver
to be able to register the presence of the bike and act accordingly. 
So why can't bikes have "highways", where geography permits, in 
order to facilitate an environmentally friendly form of transportation?


Paul
>Sorry if that wasn't clear, but I stand by my views.

With a little superficial editing, you'd be a natural on rec.autos*.


Sridar
It's a shame that you feel the need to personally insult me.


My final point is that common sense, safety and practicality should
guide the decisions on these issues.


Sridar
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles
From: fyhg8422@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (Frederick Y Huang)
Subject: Re: Chain Cleaners
Organization: University of Illinois at Urbana
Date: Sat, 15 Aug 1992 21:22:07 GMT

After trying both the Vetta and Park cleaners, I think the Vetta
definitely works better.  The scrubbers seem more effective.  It does not,
however, clean the derailleur pulleys as someone suggested they might.  It
just hangs on the rear derailleur so you don't have to hold the cleaner
in place by hand.  Much better, in my opinion- with the Park, I had to
hold the cleaner with one hand, and somehow hold the front wheel still and
keep the bike up against a pole while cleaning the chain outside my apt.  
Pretty inconvenient if you don't have a workstand.  BTW, I used Park's
Chain Brite solution in both cleaners, so it's definitely the cleaner itself
that works better (the Vetta, I mean).  

Hope this helps,

Fred
fred@uigelf.ece.uiuc.edu

Newsgroups: rec.bicycles