HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: ramiro@rrunner.NoSubdomain.NoDomain (Ramiro Reinoso)
Subject: Re: INFFINITI vs BMW
Organization: Bellcore
Date: Thu, 12 Nov 92 02:13:20 GMT


|> it is not a simple matter of build quality.  it is a deliberate design
|> goal that the bmw's engine is audible.  it is considered part of the
|> driving experience.  i drove the silent-as-a-tomb lexus and hated it
|> because it was so cold and impersonal.  once again, if you value total
|> engine silence you know which cars to buy.  but understand that for
|> some people (perhaps in the minority) communication is a very
|> important criteria.  have you seen the latest acura attack ad on the
|> lexus?  the one where the lexus is being covered up gradually by
|> armor?  i think they have a point there, but they are inevitably
|> helping bmw.
|> 
|> 
|> eliot

I think this discussion boils down to the definition of QUALITY.
The definition used today for quality is "to produce good or services
that will totally satisfy customer's requirements."  Every car company
knows the requirements for target customers and build cars to
satisfy those customers.  It's actually a good thing that Infinity
and Lexus came to existence because there were obviously some
people whose requirements were not met by existing cars (BMW).

My $0.02.


----- 
Ramiro Reinoso, 444 Hoes Lane, Office RRC-1E-226. Piscataway, NJ 08854
(PHONE) (908) 699-5021  
(INTERNET) ramiro@ctt.bellcore.com
(UUCP)  ...!bellcore!ctt!ramiro
From: Vision@cup.portal.com (Vision - Tester)
Newsgroups: rec.autos
Subject: Re: Is GM going bankrupt ???
Date: Wed, 11 Nov 92 19:49:51 PST
Organization: The Portal System (TM)

>I am curious to know if a rumor the GM is going bankrupt is true 
>or not?  I live in Indiana where GM is a very big employer.  I am 
>curious to know because if GM is going to go under, it could have 
>a devistating effect on the state's economy.
>Any insights greatly appreciated,

GM will not go bankrupt (at least not within the next year or two).  If
earnings don't rebound, then they will be in trouble.  They have had six
public offering during the last 18 months (raising billions of dollars).
They are tight for money and with over 50B in debt, their bonds are on watch
for downgrade.
It is possible for GM to get into a cash crunch (well it already is in a
cash crunch), if earnings and the economy do not turn around.  But since GM's
potential is $6-8B/yr, GM is in no way going to liquidation.  They may issue
more debt and equity, and is it possible they might rework credit terms (which
is more likely than bankruptcy protection), but once the economy recovers,
GM will build its cash coffers back up to $10B+.

Bankruptcy would be a last resort and if the economy doesnt turn around in
2-3 years, it may happen.  But who cares?  It would simply be protection from
creditors (not liquidation).  As long as GM's earnings potential stays, the
company will be around forever.
From: 01ksdavis@leo.bsuvc.bsu.edu (Rebel without a clue.)
Newsgroups: rec.autos
Subject: Auto-stick WAS:Re: FLAME! Only a manual
Date: 6 Nov 92 18:56:37 GMT
Organization: The Corporation.


	Thought I would take the time to add one last thing before this thread
totally dies out.  Certain cars that were made fit into neither category.  I
used to drive one.  It is what I learned to drive on, and although I now know
how to drive a stick, nothing is as exciting as this strange transmission that
I learned to drive on.

	It is known as the semi-automatic transmission.  Other names for it
include clutchless transmission, and a personal favorite "AT", but you can only
figure this out if you are reading the classifieds and see an ad for a pre-80
VW bug or something of the like with "AT"

	Not that VW is the only company to ever manufacture a car with this
transmission (Years 68 to approximately 75 or so.)  Other manufacturers
include Saab, Mercedes Benz, and Porsche.  The only american car that I know of
that has a transmission that is even remotely like this is a few of the certain
models of the chevy corvette.

	The beauty of this (from now on I will use auto-stick, for economy of
typing) transmission is the fact that you still had to shift, but you didn't
have to do anything with the clutch.  Out of the three different types of cars
that I have had experience with driving, the auto-stick gave the smoothest ride
and felt like a more natural way to drive.

	But, this transmission never caught on.  For one reason or another the
American public is forced to choose between to different extremes of driving
style.  Either a stick or an automatic, not this combination of the two known
as the auto-stick.

	I have the technical specifications for how the auto-stick tranny
worked in the VWs.  If anybody wants to know, let me know by email or posting
here and I will post a more technical article about it in rec.autos.tech.

	Kyle
-- 

 ______________________________________________________________________________
|Kyle S. Davis	   
Organization: Masters student, Information Networking Institute, Carnegie Mellon, Pittsburgh, PA
Newsgroups: rec.autos
Date: Tue, 10 Nov 1992 15:45:24 -0500 
From: Jyri Virkki <jyri+@CMU.EDU>
Subject: Re: Stick VS Auto.

blu@cellar.org (Dan Reed) writes:
> Ok, I prefer a stick over an auto ANYDAY!  They are flat out more fun to 
> drive... HOWEVER...
> 
> autos should be used by ..
> 
> A> "new" drivers.  Learning the road with an auto can make one a bit more at 
> ease.. as its one less thing you must do.  Later like a year or so down the 
> road.. learn stick..

I'll disagree to that. If you plan to learn to drive stick ever, the
best time is concurrently to learning to drive.  I learned on a stick
because that's what all the cars in my house had (still have). And
I've taught several friends who already drove automatics to drive
sticks.

From that, I'll say it is better for two reasons: First, you don't
tend to differentiate 'driving' from 'driving stick' since you learn
both at the same time as one activity. Which I think leads to a better
"feel" for driving stick, not just mechanical ability.
Second, if you already know to drive, you'll want to go out on the
street after only a short while of practice with the stick, which is
not a good idea. But if you're learning both in unison, you'll
properly spend at least a few weeks practicing on parking lots and
back roads, so when you venture to the street for the first time, you
already have full control of all the mechanicals, so you can
concentrate on learning the dynamics of dealing with other vehicles
without the danger of having the engine stall in traffic because you
didn't have full control of your own car yet.

YMMV

Jyri J. Virkki | DoD#561 | jyri+@cmu.edu | Carnegie Mellon University | MSINI
jyri@[rummat3|rmece02].upr.clu.edu       | Use finger to obtain PGP public key
Newsgroups: rec.autos
From: billybob@BNR.CA (Bill Nickerson)
Subject: Tires and rims for Dodge Stealth R/T.
Keywords: Stealth, tires, wheels
Reply-To: billybob@BNR.CA (Bill Nickerson)
Organization: Bell-Northern Research Ltd.
Distribution: na
Date: Thu, 5 Nov 92 18:29:06 GMT

Hi, People.

In Canada we are cursed with the snow thing in winter. However, I still wanna
drive my Stealth R/T around because I don't want to depend on the public
transit schedule. (Yeah, I know, what an idiot I am.)

Can anyone help me with a good size and price for some good winter tires? The
dealer said 205/65 15 tires on a 15x6 wheel would be fine. I cringed when the
price of $150 without tax for the wheels alone was given (and steel wheels at
that!) Is this unreasonable?

Also, I was thinking of putting Goodyear MNS tires on whatever I eventually
get. Any advice on these?

      ----------------------------------------------------------------
          ___        __   __   __    __    |     Billy Nickerson      
         /\__\_     /\_\ /\_\ /\_\   \/    |  22C Castlebrook Lane    
        / /  /_\   _\/_// / // / /__   __  |  Nepean, ON    K2G 5G3   
       / /  ___ \ /\_\ / / // / //\_\_/\_\ |--------------------------
      / /  /_\/ // / // / // / / \/ /_\/ / |     billybob@bnr.ca      
      \/_______/_\/_/_\/_/_\/_/___\___  /  |--------------------------
      /\____________________________\/ /   |  All expressed opinions  
      \/______________________________/    |   are mine, not BNR's.   
Newsgroups: rec.autos
From: kenny@osf.org (Kenneth Crudup)
Subject: Re: Advice - 1984 Pontiac Sunbird
Keywords: Advice, Pontiac, Sunbird, 2000
Organization: Open Software Foundation
Date: Wed, 11 Nov 1992 15:49:33 GMT

In article <1992Nov10.171831.23382@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu>
mgarber@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (Max D Garber) writes:
>Other Repairs:
>Valve cover gasket $80 66K

Obviously a man who doesn't do his own maintenance. I hate to see people get
ripped off. 45 mins and $5 parts tops. I've done it.

>  DECEMBER 12,1992
>  "TIE THE KNOT"
>  ^^Any Advice?^^

Yes. DON'T!!!! :-)

	-Kenny "The Eternal Batchelor, I'm having way too much fun" Crudup

-- 
Kenny Crudup, Contractor, OSF DCE QA
OSF, 11 Cambridge Center, Cambridge, MA 02142	+1 617 621 7306
kenny@osf.osf.org			OSF has nothing to do with this post.
	  Religion: The longest-running gag ever played on Mankind.
Newsgroups: rec.autos
From: bil@burka..aix.kingston.ibm.com (Igor Belchinskiy)
Subject: buying '83 BMW 320i
Date: Thu, 12 Nov 92 17:29:35 GMT
Organization: Be. I am.

As my car was totalled, I should to buy next.
Dealer has '83 bmw 320i with 100K, sunroof.

And I have some question:
what should I look for in this car?
what problems are common? is it reliable?
how long would it work?
maintenance cost?

Dealer hasn't manual for this car - so what engine is in this car?
what's displacement, torque, hp?

How is it in winter (it's rwd - but my previous was rwd too)?
Is it enough to have 2 snow tires? where should I put them - front, back?
Are all-season OK?
What about handling?

What may be reasonable price?

To reply, please, use address bil%burka@donald.aix.kingston.ibm.com
because headers are garbled, or post to the group.

Thank you,

	Igor Belchinskiy
--
bil%burka@donald.aix.kingston.ibm.com
From: underdog@leland.Stanford.EDU (Dwight Joe)
Subject: Re: Nissan Mailing List
Organization: Miners for a Heart of Gold
Date: Fri, 13 Nov 92 06:34:47 GMT

In article <manoj.721596282@dgbt.doc.ca> manoj@dgbt.doc.ca (M. K. Jain) writes:
>Is there a Nissan mailing list out there. I would appreciate if someone could
>please send me the address of it.
>
>thanks,
>manoj

I've already posted about this, but I didn't get any replies.
Someone once posted a very long list of auto-company mailing lists.

That person either must have graduated from the university or must have been
fired for spending too much time on posting silly articles on USENET.
If there's anybody out there with a copy of the mailing list, then please
post it or send e-mail.

------------------------------------------------------------------+------------
Jinsei no imi wa nan desu ka.                Sister, can you      |   \|  |`
Shitte itara oshiete kuremasen ka.           spare a coin?        |    | -+-
                                                                  |   /| / \
Copyright 1992.  Disclaimer:  1 + 1 = 3                           |
------------------------------------------------------------------+------------
From: shyguy@ocf.berkeley.edu (David S. Shy)
Newsgroups: rec.autos
Subject: Re: Los Angeles Auto Show
Date: 11 Nov 1992 03:24:44 GMT
Organization: U. C. Berkeley Open Computing Facility
Distribution: usa
NNTP-Posting-Host: monsoon.berkeley.edu

In article <26179@optima.cs.arizona.edu> mlee@cs.arizona.edu (Michael (Yuk-Wo) Lee) writes:
>
>Does anybody has any information (time, location, etc) of the
>coming Los Angeles Auto Show?
>
>
>Michael
>--
>

The L.A. Auto Show (if it follows the same format as last year and if memory
serves...) will probably be around the beginning of January (probably 
sometimes around the 2nd or 4th.)  It lasts about a week and half.  I know 
that it doesn't go beyond the 17th, because that's when school started for 
me last year.

I think it's at the L.A. Convention Center.... If you plan to go, go EARLY!
Because those greedy parking people will suck the money right out of you
(I remembered parkign at a place for 10 bucks... when i walked out of the
show, it was $20!)  Of course, there *are* free places to walk, but they
are about 4-5 blocks awa....

I don't remember the times fo rhte show, but i think it goes form 10am
to 8pm on weekdays and 9?am to 11 pm on weekends...

Cost for the show is 5 dollars.
-- 
=============================================================================
| David Shy		   | 486D/33/12/120 | A proud OS/2 user who isn't   |
| shyguy@ocf.berkeley.edu  | 1.4/1.2/1/1304 | deprived by Micro$oft/WindoZe |
=============================================================================
From: cc@dcs.ed.ac.uk (Chris Cooke)
Newsgroups: rec.autos
Subject: Re: Need Advice (URGENTLY) !!!!!!!!!!
Date: 6 Nov 92 11:07:12 GMT
	<Bwy4n8.CsG@ssesco.com> <CARL.92Nov5132741@atlantis.Cayman.COM>
Organization: Department of Computer Science, University of Edinburgh, Scotland

In article <CARL.92Nov5132741@atlantis.Cayman.COM> carl@Cayman.COM (Carl Heinzl) writes:

   >will become Ford.  Jag has a well deserved reputation for poor quality.
   >Ford is trying to change that.  (while maintaing the Jag classy styling)

   I haven't had a laugh as good as this one in quite some time.  Ford,
   trying to teach another company how to improve quality....
   HAHAHAAHAHAHAAHAH

Yes, and Jaguar's "well deserved reputation for poor quality" is at least a
decade behind the facts, too.
--
	-- Chris. 	cc@dcs.ed.ac.uk   (on Janet, cc@uk.ac.ed.dcs)

		
Newsgroups: rec.autos
From: jnielsen@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (John F Nielsen)
Subject: Re: Survey impartiality (was Re: Profits to Japan?)
Organization: The Ohio State University
Date: Tue, 10 Nov 1992 02:30:09 GMT

I don't think that was the point, I thought the point was that given
cars of roughly equal quality you tend to report what you're expected
to report -- ie if you have a car with a couple of minor problems that
you expect to be high quality you say you liked it, but if you have a
car with a couple of minor problems that you expect to be low quality
you complain about it.  I feel that's a good paraphrase of what he was
theorizing. 
 
-----
Since both of you agree that this was the gist of the theory then. . . 
Why does this make CU not very valuable. I think I gave the wrong
impression what I said it is the major things that count. What
I mean is that the minor things are more subjective are harder
to rate.

Regardless, CU doesn't ask  vague subjective questions regarding
did you/did  you not like the car. At least as far as their ratings
are concerned. They ask about what was repaired and the cost
of the repair. Something not hard to figure out even for biased
people. So, even if the effect you speak of exists, how pronounced
can it be? How many and what type of repairs do you think are
nullified?

Also, why would a person buy a car that they knew to be of low
quality? 

Why would the Suzuki Samauri, something CU trashed have an excellent
reliability rating.

As far as I can tell you at least grant that CU can provide a
general guide as to ow well a car will do. I have never said
it was perfect. But, if for example, the plymouth acclaim
had black for it's transmission for the last 5 years. Would you
even be concerned about it? 

And, one of you mentioned that perhaps the Caprice is inferior
compared to the Crown Vic. That is my point, it is a useful
piece of information to be aware of.

Do you think the informstion is sp biased that one might as well
not even look at it?


john
-- 
-------------------------------------------------------------------
John Nielsen   MAGNUS Consultant            ______   ______   __  __	
"I can't compete with you physically,      /\  __ \ /\  ___\ /\ \/\ \
and you're no match for my brains."   	   \ \ \/\ \\ \___  \\ \ \_\ \
Newsgroups: rec.autos
From: jnielsen@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (John F Nielsen)
Subject: Re: ++'89-'91 PONTIAC LeMANS-Info Needed.++
Organization: The Ohio State University
Date: Thu, 5 Nov 1992 18:21:19 GMT

>
>In a previous article, mgarber@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (Max D Garber) says:
>
>>I have recently found interest in the '89 to '91 models on the Pontiac LeMans.
>>I have seen two in town here and here is the run down:
>>     1991 LeMans Four-Door: Auto, 16K miles, Silver
>>          Sign Says "Books at $7200, yours for $5600!" (And they recently
>>dropped the price to $5300)
>>
>>     1989 LeMans Two-Door: I thought it was a 4 speed, he said it was a 5 (I 
>>didn't get inside), 30K miles, Red.  Sticker is $3900!!
>>
>>Let me know what kind of cars these are.  I like the hatchback style car and 
>>this will incorporate my speaker box nicely as well.
>>

Well, they are about the worst rated cars, except for the Yugo and
have very bad reliability. As far as CU si concerned the Lemans was
very very bad. I am not saying CU is perfect but I consider them to be
a valuable data point. If you need specifics I could look it
up sometime.

Also an important thing to do is drive the car and then drive a
competetiors car(try a used Mazda 323 which is typically undervalued)
and see if you can tell there if is a difference. If you don't compare
it is very hard to know what is bad. After all, you would have
no definition of what is good.

And looking at the 0-60 times, it was just about the slowest car.

john

-- 
-------------------------------------------------------------------
John Nielsen   MAGNUS Consultant            ______   ______   __  __	
"I can't compete with you physically,      /\  __ \ /\  ___\ /\ \/\ \
and you're no match for my brains."   	   \ \ \/\ \\ \___  \\ \ \_\ \
Newsgroups: rec.autos
From: srasaret@nyx.cs.du.edu (Suresh Rasaretnam)
Subject: 82 chevy front end
Organization: Nyx, Public Access Unix @ U. of Denver Math/CS dept.
Date: Thu, 12 Nov 92 03:19:54 GMT


   I am interested in getting a front end (hood, right fender and front
grill ) for my 82 chevy camaro.    I have been given a price of $300 in LA
can I get is for less some where else.    thanks.. suresh
From: jimf@centerline.com (Jim Frost)
Newsgroups: rec.autos
Subject: Re: Corvette's Passive Keyless Entry (PKE)
Date: 5 Nov 1992 16:14:31 GMT
Organization: CenterLine Software, Inc.
NNTP-Posting-Host: 140.239.3.202

[Original poster's name lost in followups]
> If you leave the key in the ignition and try to manually lock the doors,
> they will automatically unlock.  If you lock your keys and transmitter
> in the car by mistake and they are not in the ignition, you simply shake
> the car and the transmitter will "wake up" (it goes into a sleep mode
> after 25 seconds) and unlock the doors.

It strikes me that it would be rather painful to try to get the car
open if you leave your lights on or otherwise run the battery dead.

Does the system use a passive system on the remote and an active
system in the car or vice-versa?  If it's active on the remote, what
happens when the battery dies?

The system is interesting but I'm not wholly sure I'd trust it.

jim frost
jimf@centerline.com
Newsgroups: rec.autos
From: bbarnhar@sauronwebo.dg.com (Brian Barnhart)
Subject: Re: *** ANYTHING "BAD" WITH '89,'90,'91 FORD TAURUS ***
Date: Wed, 4 Nov 92 18:35:22 GMT
Organization: NSDD, Data General Corp.

In article <issa.720817004@cwis>, issa@cwis.unomaha.edu (Issa El-Hazin) writes:
|> dml7@navaho.cc.bellcore.com writes:
|> 
|> >I'm looking to buy a used '89, '90, or, '91 Ford Taurus.  From what I've
|> >read about them, they all seem to be pretty much the same, year after
|> >year.  Is this true?  What are the differences, minute or big?  If that's
|> >the case, how far "back" should I be looking ... maybe to '88 or '87?
|> 
|> I believe they just had been recalled for yet another time, about 500,000
|> of them. I forgot the details.
|> 
|>   

I believe the recall was on 89 and 90 Taurus/Sable seatbelt latching 
mechanism.  The recall was also for 91 Explorers if I remember correctly.

-- 
+=============================================================================+
| Brian A. Barnhart                               bbarnhar@sauron.webo.dg.com |
| Data General Corporation                                     (508) 870-6961 |
| Westboro, MA                         Speaking for myself, not Data General. |
+=============================================================================+
From: cka52397@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (Slartibartfast)
Newsgroups: rec.autos
Subject: Re: saturn/OLDsmobile speculation
Date: 7 Nov 92 00:23:58 GMT
Article-I.D.: news.BxBL40.A96
Organization: University of Illinois at Urbana

In article <1992Nov6.183904.13036@noose.ecn.purdue.edu> rjwade@rainbow.ecn.purdue.edu (Robert J. Wade) writes:
>
>OLDs general manager john rock, commenting on that oldsmobile will totally
>buy into the saturn experiment said, "as i have jokingly said, we didn't 
>have any success to cloud our decision process".
>he also has refused to ask gm board for a public comment supporting the 
>continued existence of OLDmobile.  there is some talk of a name change to
>aurora, one of olds show-cars.  if they don't merge with saturn maybe they
>will be given the freedom saturn has to design their own cars??



	According to _Time_ (not an automotive bible, I know): "The Olds
division plans to produce some new models that will bear no mention of Olds
or its rocket logo.  The first will be the Aurora...that will go on sale in 
1994.  GM ... has no plans to shut down the division entirely...  In its new
guise Olds plans to concentrate on midsize cars to compete with the likes of
the Ford Taurus and Toyota Camry, giving up most of the big-car market to 
Buick and Cadillac."  
-- 
***RUSH***YES***FLOYD***PEARLJAM***METALLICA***STING***PAULSIMON***REM***U2***
*"Today is Pearl Harbor Day!"  <= George Herbert Walker Bush Sept. 7, 1988 ;>*
*"We Fight the Fires, While We're Feeding the Flames" <= RUSH "Second Nature"*
*******(c-amin1@uiuc.edu)***Chintan Amin***UniversityofIllinois***GoIllini****
Organization: Penn State University
Date: Tue, 10 Nov 1992 10:06:20 EST
From: Karl Nordstrom <KXN2@psuvm.psu.edu>
Newsgroups: rec.autos
Subject: Porsche 356 carrera?

Is anyone familiar with the Porsche 356 Carrera?  I think it was a race
version of the 356 that had a DOHC 4 cylinder engine.  Can anyone tell me
more about this auto?
Newsgroups: rec.autos
From: underdog@leland.Stanford.EDU (Dwight Joe)
Subject: Re: Top 20 Selling Vehicles of 1992
Organization: Miners for a Heart of Gold
Date: Thu, 12 Nov 92 02:43:41 GMT

In article <3930142@hpnmdla.sr.hp.com> roger@hpnmdla.sr.hp.com
>...
>If you break the list into "cars" and "trucks", the list looks like this:
>(Note: minivans are often classified as trucks.  But that's another story.).
>Still, the US has more top selling vehicles than Japan, and European
>vehicles are nowhere to be found (why is that?).
>...

Because no one wants to pay $13,000 for a car that only costs $9,000.
For some people, the prestige of the nameplate isn't worth the extra
4 thousand.

European productivity in auto manufacturing is much worse than 
either American or Japanese productivity.  Of course, lately, Japanese
labels are being sold at a premium, and I'm not referring to just
the stupid "Dealer Markup".

Case in point:  Mazda Protege, MSRP = $12,100 (no air conditioning and auto)
                Ford Escort, MSRP = $11,700 (with air conditioning and auto)

------------------------------------------------------------------+------------
Jinsei no imi wa nan desu ka.                Sister, can you      |   \|  |`
Shitte itara oshiete kuremasen ka.           spare a coin?        |    | -+-
                                                                  |   /| / \
Copyright 1992.  Disclaimer:  1 + 1 = 3                           |
------------------------------------------------------------------+------------
Newsgroups: rec.autos