HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: amazon@sgi.com (Stormwind)
Subject: Re: The Proper Scope, and area awareness 
Organization: X Industries, Heavy Weapons R&D
Date: Wed, 26 Aug 1992 00:33:35 GMT

(Steve Pennypacker) writes:
>In my opinion, at least until the group is reorganized, anything having to 
>do with aviation in any way, should be welcome here without people saying
>the discussion should be taken elsewhere.  You might not want to see 
>environmental posts (to take one example) here, but I do and so do thousands
>of other netters.  As has been suggested so many times, learn to use a kill 
>file so you don't have to waste your time with subjects (or authors) you 
>don't want to read.  Believe me, there are subjects that have come up here 
>that I'd *love* to kick out of this group, but as long as some people are 
>interested in the subject I don't feel it's my right to do so.  

on the flip side, while discussions on 
"how to spot chemical plumes from the 
air" is related to aviation, it would
seem that "is it an infringement of my
civil liberties when other people report 
what they see on my property" is not.  
hence, alt.civil.liberties may be more
appropriate to keep from having a heated
civil liberties discussion take place in
r.a.

likewise, *rationalizations* of whether it
is good/bad to involve oneself to whatever
extent in environmental protection don't
involve planes, and seem more suited to
talk.environment; stories of using planes
to spot environmental disasters both large
and small are rec.aviation material.

name-calling just flat out belongs in alt.flame.

my own stance is that, like any cause, 
activities performed in pursuit of a 
belief can be overdone at times.  i like 
the idea of spotting environmental 
problems from a plane, and i enjoy 
margaret's posts.  i've had my own run-ins 
with illegal dumped waste that was highly 
carcinogenic and which was dumped at a 
high human-traffic area (shudder), though 
not with a plane.

a side thought just occurred to me: as 
pilots, we look at things differently.
we have to examine our environment very
carefully for clues to position, signs
of other aircraft in the vicinity.  has
anyone experienced an increase in the amount
of detail you notice in your day-to-day 
environment after becoming involved in flying?
do you look up more often, or note large
landmarks?

			stormwind

			hell's amazon
Newsgroups: rec.aviation
From: bible@iastate.edu (Anthony E Bible)
Subject: Re: Two planes collide over Santa Paula Airport
Organization: Iowa State University, Ames, IA
Date: Wed, 2 Sep 1992 13:33:30 GMT

In article <1992Sep01.231037.16081@convex.com> sross@convex.com (Steve Ross) writes:
>From talking with some local pilots here the word is that the planes were
>monitoring different unicom freq. It seems that the unicom freq. was
>recently changed at Santa Paula.
>
>This is the second midair there in the last year or so. You might remember
>a helicopter collided with a Pits. The helicopter was carrying a actor (can't
>remember who it was). The Pits was carry a student and instructor. Both were

	Kirk Douglas?

>killed. I have flown into this airport many times and consider it dangerous.
>Many pilots don't even bother to announce there intention and the traffic
>pattern only has a downwind entry due to high terrian on the south side of
>the runway.
>
>Steve
From: dick.zeitlin%acc1bbs@ssr.com (Dick Zeitlin) 
Newsgroups: rec.aviation
Subject: SPANISH CHOPPER PILOT DIE
Date: 25 Aug 92 21:14:00 GMT
Distribution: world
Organization: Advanced Computer Concepts BBS, New Rochelle, NY 914-654-1981
Reply-To: dick.zeitlin%acc1bbs@ssr.com (Dick Zeitlin) 

MAP> .NOW...it was sad that he died, and he was trying to do a good thing...but
   > .I FEEL that he crossed a line of 'aviation ethics'. YOU don't take a chop
   > .to get water into a residential area <that is where it happened..at a pub
   > .pool>...let alone with homes, walls, fences around. IT IS just common
   > .sence.

Seems to me you're indicting the pilot without full knowledge of the
circumstances.  What if a school was burning with people trapped inside,
and this was the only available open water for many miles.  Judgment
call.  The risk of using the pool, vs. the risk of the people not
surviving the additional time necessary to get water from a safer, more
open, location.

Being a PIC sometimes means making tough decisions between almost
equally unpleasant alternatives.  And, sometimes, doing things
that under other conditions would be totally unacceptible.  Let's not
assume the worst until we find out that the decision was clearly and
unambiguously wrong.

        D/

 * OLX 2.2 * Real Pilots enjoy NDB approaches to minimums!  Inverted!!
From: geoff@peck.com (Geoff Peck)
Newsgroups: rec.aviation
Subject: Re: teaching alphabet airspace
Date: 26 Aug 92 09:11:39 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: Geoffrey G. Peck, Consultant, San Jose CA

Well, here's Geoff's simplified (and only slightly silly) guide to Alphabet
Soup, er, Airspace:

A> Absolutely don't go in here without a clearance and an instrument
   rating.  This here airspace is above 18,000', so you shouldn't have too
   much trouble avoiding it in your normally-Aspirated single.

B> Better not go in here without a clearance, tho' you don't need that
   IFR ticket.  This kind of terminally confusing airspace surrounds Big
   airports.

C> Controllers love this kind of airspace, 'cause they think they own it.
   Well, originally, pilots owned it, but there was this bit of
   politicking, and, well, now you gotta talk to those controllers to go
   in.  If they say you can't, or they won't let on as how you're there,
   you can't go in.  Oh, well.  Can't-go-in-without-talking-airspace.

D> Dontcha' know that any airport worth its salt has this thing called
   a tower, which sticks up just far enough that if you weren't paying
   attention you could bump...er...wait a minute.  You're supposed to talk
   to these guys, too!  Now, remember when we had these round things around
   airports called airport traffic areas?  Shaped like the letter "o"?
   Now these new-fangled Darn-tootin'-talk-to-the-tower areas are
   sometimes shaped like the letter "d" (that's a LITTLE "d") -- there
   are these things stickin' out the edges.  Hmmm.  Gotta buy those new
   charts...

E> Everybody talks about the weather, but nobody does anything about it --
   until now.  This here class of airspace is designed to keep you VFR
   pilots just a little further out from the weather than other, higher
   letter classes of airspace.  Remember those pesky numbers, 1/2, 1, 2,
   and 3?  Or, 500' (below), 1000' (above), 2000' (laterally), and 3 (miles
   visibility)?  Well, it's in Everyman's airspace that this starts to be
   important.  And this airspace is almost Everywhere.

F>
Abort, retry, or ignore?

G> Goodness!  Are there almost _no_rules_ out here?  No one to talk to?
   If you're allowed to be in a cloud, you're on your own?  Yes, indeed...

Warnings and usage prohibitions:  Not for in-flight use.  Do not eat.
Not for re-publication.  Consult all appropriate FAA circulars,
regulations, and your flight instructor before attempting to learn this
stuff.  (And if I'm your flight instructor, no, I didn't write this, and
you didn't read it either!  :-) )
From: randy@khan.gatech.edu (Randal T. Abler)
Newsgroups: rec.aviation
Subject: Re: Be nice to your engine
Date: 31 Aug 92 17:47:20 GMT
Organization: CERL-EE, Georgia Institue of Technology

In article <1992Aug31.131357.5000@nlm.nih.gov> masys@nlm.nih.gov (Dr. Daniel R. Masys) writes:
>In article <67194@hydra.gatech.EDU> randy@khan.gatech.edu (Randal T. Abler) writes:
>>
>>I'd prefer to rent a plane by "Tach" hours.  If you reduce the RPM for
>>quiter flight (and to be nicer to the engine) then your cost goes down.
>
>It may not be nicer to the engine to run at low power levels.  When I
>picked up a factory reman Lycoming at Carter Aviation in Tennessee, I
>asked the flambouyant Bobby Carter what I should do to be sure to make
>it to TBO.  "Son", he said, "don't baby it.  Just run it hard and often."
>Since Bobby has heard the stories that went along with several tens of
>thousands of engine exchanges, I think he's likely to be right.

Intuitively you'd think that more RPM would increase wear, at least above
a certian point.  But from real life experience, with club planes that
get rented by the hobbs hour (and therefore flown for max cruise speed),
we consistently go past TBO without problems.  Of course, our planes
benefit from the "often" part of the statement also, with around
700 hrs/year on the C152 and 400 hrs/year on the C172s.   

I guess I could substitute "for better range" instead of "nicer to the
engine" ... 

I'd still be warry of putting a turbo-charged plane up for rent in
that enviroment!
			
-- 
Randal T. Abler   	randy@cerl.gatech.edu		 
CERL/EE Georgia Tech
From: stephen@moclips (Stephen L Nicoud)
Newsgroups: rec.aviation
Subject: Re: Warbirds over Seattle
Date: 26 Aug 92 21:41:14 GMT
Reply-To: stephen@boeing.com (Stephen L Nicoud)
Organization: Boeing Computer Services Research and Technology, Bellevue, WA USA
Originator: stephen@atc.boeing.com


   On 19 Aug 92 06:24:56 GMT in a rec.aviation article, joero@microsoft.com (Joe Robison) wrote:

   Boy, was she ever.  The B-29, 17, and stratocruiser did consecutive flypasts,
   with the zero and P-51 looping around to overtake them.  Watching the B-29
   come in from the south, silhouetted against Mt. Rainier, with 40's swing
   music playing over the loudspeakers....

I live up on Renton Hill overlooking the Renton airport (where the
737s and 757s are built and where the 727s and 707s used to be built).

I watched as the planes, one after the other, flew over the Renton
airport and made sweeping right-hand turns to line up for the pass
over Boeing Field.

My spine tensed up and I got shivers and a lump in my throat watching
'em.  AWESOME!!

Stephen
-- 
Stephen L Nicoud  <stephen@boeing.com>  bcstec!bcsaic!stephen
Boeing Computer Services Research and Technology, Computer Science
Bellevue, Washington  USA
"I ask unanimous consent to revise and extend my remarks."
From: u8843619@csdvax.csd.unsw.edu.au
Newsgroups: rec.aviation
Subject: Flying in Guam - Advice Wanted Please.
Date: 28 Aug 92 22:14:41 +1000
Organization: University of New South Wales



I plan to go to Guam, Micronesia in January. I hold an Australian 
Commercial Pilot's Licence and I plan to hire a plan and have a look
around. Has anyone had experience in flying in Guam ? I would be interested
in any information you might have ( eg weather, cost, legal requirements, 
things to do and see, types of planes available, etc).

Thanks in advance,


Derek Chung
Faculty of Law
University of New South Wales
Kensington, Australia
Newsgroups: rec.aviation
From: phil@eecs.nwu.edu (William LeFebvre)
Subject: Re: umwaufi report
Organization: EECS Department, Northwestern University
Date: Wed, 2 Sep 1992 22:21:09 GMT

In article <1992Sep2.152611.2822@hemlock.cray.com>, jkr@cray.com (John Renwick) writes:

|> What do you all think?

I think a fly-in at MSP would be a wonderful idea.  I would vote for 
Mall of America (it would be a very different sort of fly-in, no?)
But I would also recommend that we not schedule it any time soon, since
we all just recovered from the Ottumwa fly-in.  Perhaps October or
November?  We could schedule it for November and call it the
Upper Mid West Christmas Shopping Spree Fly In (umwcssfi)!  :-)
Rather than $100 hamburgers, we could get $100 stocking stuffers.

And I'll only go on one condition:  NO WASPS!

		William LeFebvre
		Computing Facilities Manager and Analyst
		Department of Electrical Engineering and Computer Science
		Northwestern University
		<phil@eecs.nwu.edu>
From: brecher@pyramid.unr.edu (Steve Brecher)
Newsgroups: rec.aviation
Subject: Re: Flying to Oregon: Questions.
Date: 27 Aug 92 19:28:52 GMT
Reply-To: brecher@pyramid.unr.edu (Steve Brecher)
Organization: still disorganized in Reno, NV

In <101820018@hpcvra.cv.hp.com>, randys@hpcvra.cv.hp.com (Randy Stockberger)
discusses various flight destinations in Oregon, and mentions

> Or perhaps Newport, many motels to chose from, a wonderful flight down
> the coast, seafood...

I flew to Newport last weekend.  All in all it was a nice trip, except
that on attempting to return home I HAD A COMPLETE POWER LOSS AND HAD TO
BE RESCUED BY THE COAST GUARD!

Parking at the field is limited; we had to park off the ramp on
grass/dirt.  The Oregon Coast Aquarium is nearby and is worth a visit if
you like to see fish, sea otters, etc.  We stayed at the Best Western,
which has all beach/ocean-view rooms and (gas) fireplaces in the rooms.

On return to the airport Sunday, I found that I had left the battery
switch on and that the battery was dead. ("Huh?  How'd I leave the battery
but not the alternator on?  Oh, I guess I did that after completely
shutting down and then going back to get a reading from the fuel
totalizer.")  The FBO was very nice, but had no APU nor 24V battery to get
me started.  The A&P they called couldn't come out.  After a while,
though, they thought of checking with the Coast Gaurd chopper unit on the
field. The CG had a 24V APU with a plug that fit my plane, and got me
going.

--
brecher@pyramid.cs.unr.edu (Steve Brecher)
From: mark@hpcvxmsr.cv.hp.com (Mark Rowe)
Newsgroups: rec.aviation
Subject: DEA on 60 minutes
Keywords: DEA, aircraft confiscation, TV
Date: 1 Sep 92 21:06:53 GMT
Article-I.D.: hpcvusn.1992Sep1.210653.15651
Reply-To: mark@.cv.hp.com
Organization: UDT-CV (ITO)

Anybody catch 60 minutes this past weekend.  They had a clip on the
DEA (drug enforcement agency) that seemed to me to pretty much confirm
the concerns that have recently been expressed in this news group
regarding the DEA's unrestricted (or at best lightly restricted) ability
to confiscate anyone's aircraft and resell it in auction without any
regard for due process.  The segment was a typical 60 minutes clip (read:
one sided, heavily biased, cut em up); like gee I really feel bad for the
DEA :-).  One can hope that with this new found notoriety maybe forces
will come to bear to restore some accountability to this agency (don't
hold your breath).

Speaking of the DEA and aviation, did anybody catch Dave Berry's latest
column which (along with everything else in world) mentioned the DEA and
the Osprey.  It was one of Dave's better efforts (read: pretty funny).

Mark Rowe       Corvallis, OR       PP-SEL G I       Comanche N5943P
From: dick.zeitlin%acc1bbs@ssr.com (Dick Zeitlin) 
Newsgroups: rec.aviation
Subject: Any tips on trip to Canad
Date: 25 Aug 92 21:05:00 GMT
Distribution: world
Organization: Advanced Computer Concepts BBS, New Rochelle, NY 914-654-1981
Reply-To: dick.zeitlin%acc1bbs@ssr.com (Dick Zeitlin) 

RK> .Any warnings on flying to Canada?  (I know I need 12"
  > .letters, a letter of insurance, a letter of permission
  > .to use a rented airplane, a radiotelephone license,
  > .and all the standard U.S. paperwork.  Am I
  > .missing anything?)

If you're taking any minor offspring, take a notarized letter from your
wife giving you permission.

AOPA has a good trip kit available to members for the asking.  (You ARE
a member, aren't you???)  Get it.  It outlines airspace and procedural
differences, gives a list of entry ports, etc.

Enjoy.

        D/

 * OLX 2.2 * Real Pilots enjoy NDB approaches to minimums!  Inverted!!
From: hoey@husc8.harvard.edu (Steven Hoey)
Newsgroups: rec.aviation
Subject: FYI--The Gay Pilots' Association
Summary: Introduction to the GPA
Date: 3 Sep 92 07:34:07 GMT
Article-I.D.: husc3.1992Sep3.033408.15328
Distribution: na


There's a relatively new organization out there that hasn't yet received much
publicity in the aviation community, or in the gay community.  It's GPA -- the
Gay Pilots' Association.

I want to help them spread the word here on the USENET.  Below, I've reprinted
information from their introductry flyer.



WHO?
GPA is a national organization founded by a small group of aviation
professionals.  Our members consist of pilots, both private and professional;
ATC personnel, mechanics, and anyone else associated with the aviation 
industry.

WHY?
GPA was formed to offer pilots and other aviation industry personnel a discreet
way to connect and correspond with each other.  We hope to help our members
find anything from a relationship to employment to an aircraft or just some
good friends.

WHAT?
GPA consists of a quarterly newsletter containing everything from member-
submitted articles to our exclusive Cockpit personals section.  There are
columns for personal and professional advice, regulatory updates and a 
classified section containing headings for help wanted, jobs wanted, buy-sell-
swap, instruction and professional services.  GPA members will also receive
private invitations to private social events, held throughout the country.

[The organization requests that members pay dues--for more information, contact
them directly.  I'm trying to give information without advertising too much.]

WHERE?
All feedback, questions, and correspondence can be directed to:
			GPA
			PO Box 1291
			Alexandria, VA  22313

			24 hour Information Line:
			(703) 660-3852

*NOTE:  The term "gay" is meant to include gay men, lesbians, and bisexual
	people.  

[Crosspost info: this article will also appear in soc.motss and ne.motss.]


If you want information, and don't want to call or write, you may contact me
at the email address listed below.  Note that I am not an officer of the club--
just an interested gay student pilot.


-----
Steve Hoey
From: sandyr@hpgrla.gr.hp.com (Sandy Reutter)
Date: Fri, 28 Aug 1992 17:11:45 GMT
Subject: Re: Finding toxic waste (Re: Flying for the Environment)
Organization: Hewlett-Packard, Greeley, CO
Newsgroups: rec.aviation


I'm ignorant-----------What's DEQ?

Thanks,
Sandy

"No one is totally worthless,
 they can always be used as a bad example"
From: lee@bluefuzz.sw.stratus.com (Lee Cooprider)
Newsgroups: rec.aviation
Subject: Air Lifeline experience
Date: 26 Aug 92 15:50:33 GMT
Organization: Stratus Computer, Software Engineering

Well, having seen the Air Lifeline regular posting two or three times, I sent
off for the information, filled out the form, and sent it in.  A couple of
weeks later, I got a call from the local coordinator -- "Ready to fly?"

The first schedule trip was to pick up a 3-year old and her mother on
Nantucket to bring them into Boston for outpatient surgery.  Unfortunately,
New England weather was rotten that week, and the morning of the flight
Nantucket was predicting occasional 100 foot ceilings with visibility 1 in
fog, winds 15 gusting 25.  I had a funny version of get-home-itis -- I didn't
want to inconvenience them and the hospital staff and doctor.  However, flying
to minimums in high wind (and possibly missing due to fog, out over the water,
etc.) was too much, and I cancelled.  They came in another day.

The second scheduled trip was to return a leukemia patient back to Burlington,
VT, after therapy.  My part of the trip would have been significant IFR
conditions, and a return to Bedford IFR just after sunset; a challenge, but
doable, and I was prepared.  But apparently the pilot who was to bring them
in the morning must have found it unflyable, because it was cancelled, too.

But finally, on my third scheduled flight, yesterday, I bopped out to
Nantucket to pick up a different 3-year old girl, her mother and a friend.
The girl had had a kidney tumor that had spread before being excised, and she
was in for radiation and chemotherapy, plus follow-up tests.  It was a hazy
day with normal low clouds and fog over Nantucket.  I flew over the layer,
dropped down on the ILS and broke out about 50 feet above minimums.  The
flight to Boston was notable only because they routed me all the way around to
land from the north, which added 20 minutes to a 40 minute flight.  It was my
first landing at BOS; after landing my 182 in the normal 1500 feet, I still
had two miles to taxi!  When they asked me to "keep up speed on taxi" I felt
like the only way to make a real difference would be to take off and land
again 5000 feet later.

The people at Butler clearly knew these people well, and were very friendly.
Butler waives the landing fee ($25) for Air Lifeline flights.  The kid and her
family were, of course, delightful.  One interesting note: if they had come
commercially, at higher cost, they probably couldn't have brought the friend.
Having an extra seat filled in my plane, however, was no additional expense.

My biggest problem was remembering to respond "Lifeguard 2908F" even when
addressed that way :-)  Air Lifeline flights do qualify as Lifeguard status,
which can get you priority in some cases, tho its never a big deal since you
aren't transporting life-critical patients.

It turned out that my wife was returning from California on Northwest
Airlines, so I picked her up at the airport, from the air side :-).

One down, probably many to go.
-- 
Lee W. Cooprider				PP-ASEL/IA
Lee_Cooprider@vos.stratus.com			Skylane N2908F "Wiley"
From: choy@skorpio.usask.ca
Newsgroups: rec.aviation
Subject: How realistic are simulators?
Date: 4 Sep 92 19:49:37 GMT
Organization: University of Saskatchewan, Saskatoon, Canada

I've got a very basic flight simulator. On average, how realistic
are simulators?

Henry Choy
choy@cs.usask.ca
Newsgroups: rec.aviation
From: sross@convex.com (Steve Ross)
Subject: Re: Two planes collide over Santa Paula Airport
Organization: CONVEX Computer Corporation, Richardson, Tx., USA
Date: Tue, 01 Sep 1992 23:10:37 GMT
X-Disclaimer: This message was written by a user at CONVEX Computer
              Corp. The opinions expressed are those of the user and
              not necessarily those of CONVEX.

From talking with some local pilots here the word is that the planes were
monitoring different unicom freq. It seems that the unicom freq. was
recently changed at Santa Paula.

This is the second midair there in the last year or so. You might remember
a helicopter collided with a Pits. The helicopter was carrying a actor (can't
remember who it was). The Pits was carry a student and instructor. Both were
killed. I have flown into this airport many times and consider it dangerous.
Many pilots don't even bother to announce there intention and the traffic
pattern only has a downwind entry due to high terrian on the south side of
the runway.

Steve
Newsgroups: rec.aviation
From: osh@cray.com (O'Shaughnessy John)
Subject: Re: Proposed MSP Fly-in (Was uamwfi, or something like that)
Keywords: MSP fly-in
Organization: Cray Research, Inc, Mendota Heights, MN
Distribution: usa
Date: 3 Sep 92 15:30:41 CDT


One reason to fly into a big airport, is that it's fun!


I'm based at FCM, and I wouldn't care to fly into MSP everyday, but for a fly-in
event, I think MSP is a good destination.  In the middle of the day, it's not
too busy.


John

-- 
-----
John M. O'Shaughnessy					osh@a00308.cray.com
Cray Research, Inc.	Voice: 612.683.7322		Fax: 612.683.7509
Newsgroups: rec.aviation
From: ritter@claude.ma30.bull.com (Roger Ritter)
Subject: Re: Reasons to fly (was Number of U.S Pilots)
Organization: Bull HN Informations Systems Inc.
Date:  3 Sep 92 15:38:01 GMT

dls@genrad.com (Diana L. Syriac) writes:

>2.  Join the 99's and FLY to their meeting every month plus half a dozen 
>    other "flyins", like the skiing trip, or the sleigh ride, or the Air
>    Classic races, or.....

They won't let me join.  Wrong sex, or something like that. Now I
ask you, is that fair?? :-)

-- 
Roger Ritter N1FZZ (R.Ritter@ma30.bull.com) PP-ASEL, AGI
1946 Luscombe 8A N71983 "Rocky"
Sheep do not so much fly as plummet!        NH CAP: Profile 49