HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: ksm@abb-sc.abb-sc.com (Ashley)
Newsgroups: alt.pagan
Subject: Re: Documented Evidence
Date: 8 Jan 93 18:34:48 GMT
Organization: Kaos Laboratories


In article <1993Jan7.184830.22353@radian.uucp>, markbr%radian@natinst.com (markbr) writes...
>In article<1349@abb-sc.abb-sc.COM>ksm@abb-sc.abb-sc.com (Ashley) writes:

(condensed previous post to the question "What kind of documented evidence does 
one want?"

>>
>>						- Ashely
> 
>......(clip).........We'd like to read of theory & practice, things
>that can be written down & passed on, not a trail in the hills somewhere,
>and some old herbs moldering in a closed room in an abandoned house. What
>did they do, and why, and what did they think about it, and what did it all
>*MEAN*?
> 
>	mark


	Ah. I understand now. I'm afraid that my friend has said all she can 
about that (she said a lot if you re-read her post and use your deductive 
skills to infer her meaning!), so I *cannot* expand. Sorry!

	I would suggest though that if one wanted to know what the old religion 
was like one would want to study the simple things in a farming community's 
relationship with nature. Wouldn't their magick and religion be simple too? 

	On that note, I remembered a book on my shelf the other day that was 
supposedly written by someone who has a English family passed tradition. What 
does everyone think of the book "West County Wicca" by Rhiannon Rhylls? Marion 
Weinstein wrote the intro, so apparently she thinks it's authentic. Looks 
pretty good to me, a lot of kitchen magick which is what I would expect from
any tradition that survived under the conditions she claims hers did. A lot of 
standard Wicca too, but most of the ceremonial or high magick (which is what 
I think gardner added) present in modern day Wicca is conspiciously absent.

	Anyone else here read it or have an opinion of it?


			- Ashley
Newsgroups: alt.pagan
From: drake+@cs.cmu.edu (Drake)
Subject: Re: Why Black Hilt?
Organization: School of Computer Science, Carnegie Mellon
Date: Sat, 9 Jan 1993 11:14:59 GMT

cortese@skid.ps.uci.edu (Janis Maria Cortese) writes:

>too much in the tools.  I've heard of people casting really meaningful
>circles with a plastic knife from a picnic bargain pack.  

Kinda like magical versions of Macgyver, yes? <g>

-- 
Love and Laughter,             | NOTE: Private mail must go explicitly
Xeper and Remanifest,          | to drake@seismo.soar.cs.cmu.edu
                       DRAKE   | or it'll bounce back to you...
From: kuknife@kuhub.cc.ukans.edu
Newsgroups: alt.pagan
Subject: re:ankh talk
Date: 12 Jan 93 16:38:56 CST
Organization: University of Kansas Academic Computing Services

	I would have to agree, when you find ankhs in those trendy little 
stores in shopping malls(you know, the ones that female mall rats inhabit
for thier supply of junk jewelry), it's definately an "in" thing. Makes those
of us who have been wearing them since childhood rather disgusted at times.
But what can you do? At least while they're in you can build up a good 
collection.
	As a second thought, another possible "reason" could be that you're
encountering a lot of fans of Sandman and sister Death. I think it's too
much to hope that they're all wearing them as symbols of deeply personal
belief in eternal life, fertility, or whatever, but I could just be a pess-
imist.
                             Ankhs(a girls best friend?)---

                             Blessings
                                 Loreli

Newsgroups: alt.pagan,talk.religion.misc
From: tratclif@oucsace.cs.ohiou.edu (Tracy Ratcliff)
Newsgroups: alt.pagan
Subject: Re: Proof That GUI is SATANIC!!!!
Date: 12 Jan 93 02:40:50 GMT
Organization: Ohio University CS Dept,. Athens

In article <2B521390.6364@news.service.uci.edu> cortese@skid.ps.uci.edu (Janis Maria Cortese) writes:
>In article <1993Jan11.173351.9262@pro-haven.cts.com> troyce@pro-haven.cts.com (Troyce Wilson) writes:
>>I don't know about GUI, but on another computer service, people were
>>talking about how Pat Robertson was saying that credit cards were Satanic. 
>>I wonder if this means he won't take donations on charge cards anymore?
>
>
>This had something to do with a certain kind of credit card having the
>digits 666 in the numbers.
>

My sister was talking one time about the fundies at her plant.  It's apparently
some sort of arithemetic trick you can do on any card.
From: cortese@skid.ps.uci.edu (Janis Maria Cortese)
Subject: Re: the PENTACLES, people!!!!
Newsgroups: alt.pagan
Organization: University of California, Irvine
Date: 12 Jan 93 18:19:40 GMT

In article <vossdavi-110193213337@cemmac28.cem.msu.edu> vossdavi@student.msu.edu (Lisa Ann) writes:
>In article <93011.45407.L629159@LMSC5.IS.LMSC.LOCKHEED.COM>,
>L629159@LMSC5.IS.LMSC.LOCKHEED.COM wrote:
>> 
>>
>> 
>>   I share your frustration at the ability of netters to ignore the
>> importance of a post to pervert a thread into a discussion of
>> whatever they individually find interesting.  That said...
>
>> Al Moore
>     
>     My appologies for ignoring the original subject of the thread. I was
>newly annoyed by the subject of ritual abuse when it was brought up.
>Besides, Janis pretty much said it all. I am in full agreement and am in
>the process of writing Ms. to give them my 2 cents. I probably should have
>mentioned that, huh? Sorry, Janis.

Now, *I* feel like I should apologize.  It's possible that I may have
been nettled by that little pissant who said I shouldn't be able to
teach.  Sorry for blasting; I just thought the important matter was
interesting to people here, given the bad connotation we get. 

Blessings,
Janis
From: whelan@sbphy.physics.ucsb.edu (John T. whelan)
Newsgroups: alt.pagan
Subject: Moon names request
Date: 8 Jan 93 19:30:01 GMT


	This may not be exactly the group to ask this of, but it's the
closest I can think of.  Apologies in advance to anyone who thinks I'm
wasting bandwidth.  
	Does anybody know the names given to full moons (e.g. Harvest,
Milk, Beaver, etc.) and which months they correspond to?  (ie, the
full moon in October is called the Harvest Moon; what are the others?)
Please e-mail me any information, since I have trouble keeping up with
the net.  Historical perspective would be an added bonus.
				Thanks much,	
					John Whelan
--
	"This is that thing you call sarcasm, isn't it?"
				-- Ford Prefect, _Mostly_Harmless_
From: cortese@skid.ps.uci.edu (Janis Maria Cortese)
Subject: Re: Opinions of this source(was Re: something irritating in Ms. Magazine)
Newsgroups: alt.pagan
Organization: University of California, Irvine
Date: 11 Jan 93 18:31:35 GMT

In article <1993Jan10.201355.23525@news.cs.indiana.edu> "amy lynn young-leith" <alyoung@kiwi.ucs.indiana.edu> writes:

[deleted]

>Since some of the books I've been directed to by different people are
>by Ms. Cabot, I am compelled to ask why this is "unfortunate?"  I
>haven't read any yet, as a matter of fact, but am curious as to any
>comments on her. 

To me, the fact that the only thing that Ms. Magazine would mention
about Wicca comes from the most known Witch TO THE MEDIA and not
necessarily to other Witches, tells me that they are going very
shallowly into this.  Many feminist Witches that I know would be far
more knowledgeable about Z Budapest or Starhawk than Laurie Cabot.

I just think Ms. is not looking too deeply into something that means a
lot to a lot of feminist women and men.

Blessings,
Janis
From: popec@freeside.com (PopeC)
Newsgroups: alt.pagan
Subject: Re: Subject: Re: Meaning of pentagram, pentacle for You
Date: Tue, 05 Jan 93 12:02:49 CST
Organization: Rivendell BBS / Hou, TX. / +1 713 941 2236

drake+@cs.cmu.edu (Drake) writes:

> lib1p@elroy.uh.edu (Tammy Stark Blandino) writes:
> 
> >between the States (Civil War to most).  The only real difference between
> >the KKK and Nazi's is that the KKK has never risen to political power like
> >the Nazi's did and the KKK often use religion as an excuse for their
> >existance and tactics.
> 
> The Nazi Party often used religion as an excuse as well.  Germany, note,
> was a Christian nation.  Hitler was commended as a defender of the faith
> by the Pope at the time.
> 
> 
> 
> -- 
> Love and Laughter,             | NOTE: Private mail must go explicitly
> Xeper and Remanifest,          | to drake@seismo.soar.cs.cmu.edu
>                        DRAKE   | or it'll bounce back to you...


The official belt buckle worn by every member of Hitler's armies had the 
motto, "Gott mitt uns".  God's with us.  

Pope Charles      Subgenius Pope Of Houston     Slack!

**********************************************************************
* Pope Charles - Subgenius pope Of Houston & The Golden Triangle Area*
*       Laughing at everything in the Universe, including the        *
*       concept of laughing at everything in the Universe.           *
*               rivdell.sccsi.com    Houston, Texas                  *
**********************************************************************
From: alizard@tweekco.uucp (A.Lizard)
Newsgroups: alt.pagan
Subject: Re: Help with Songs...
Date: Sun, 10 Jan 93 15:52:06 PST
Organization: Tweek-Com Systems BBS, Moraga, CA (510) 631-0615

marty@world.std.com (Marty M HaleEvans) writes:

> mailorder catalog for music, books, etc. for pagans of most stripes. Again,
> I'll post the address later if I can find it. I haven't ordered from there
> yet because I hope to roadtrip to the store soon, but the catalog is
> impressive.
> 

Abyss
RR1 Box 213 Chester Rd
Chester, MA 011011-9735
Bright Blessings,
A.Lizard

-------------------------------------------------------------------
A.Lizard Internet Addresses:
alizard%tweekco%boo@PacBell.COM        (preferred)
[path]!pacbell.COM!boo!tweekco!alizard (bang path for above)
alizard@gentoo.com (backup) alizard@Blue.Kludge.com (if all else fails)
PGP2.0 public key available on request.
From: ksm@abb-sc.abb-sc.com (Ashley)
Newsgroups: alt.pagan
Subject: Re: Opinions of this source(was Re: something irritating in Ms. Magazine)
Summary: Why I don't like Laurrie Cabot.
Date: 12 Jan 93 02:15:19 GMT
Organization: Kaos Laboratories


>In article <1993Jan10.201355.23525@news.cs.indiana.edu> "amy lynn young-leith" <alyoung@kiwi.ucs.indiana.edu> writes:
>>Since some of the books I've been directed to by different people are
>>by Ms. Cabot, I am compelled to ask why this is "unfortunate?"  I
>>haven't read any yet, as a matter of fact, but am curious as to any
>>comments on her. 


	Can't speak for others on why Cabot is an unfortunate inclusion, but 
here's my perspective on the woman.

		(Cabot fans can press "n" now...)

	Sassy did an article on Witchcraft several years back. They spoke only 
to Cabot and her students. If I had not known any more than they reported, I 
would have avoided Witchraft as best I could. Lots of "OneTruePath" crap from 
Cabot and lots of mindless guru praising from the girls interviewed. No one 
seemed to really have too much control of their lives and seemed to be giving 
everything up to a higher power (Cabot). 

	Pretty damned sad if you ask me, but my opinion of Laurrie Cabot was  
miserable to start with. There is a lot of stuff in her book "Power Of The 
Witch" about what materials you MUST have on your alter in order to be a 
RealWitch(tm) and other such stuff. And the chapter on entering trance that 
she makes into such a drama with her "Alpha" stuff! Eghads, I haven't heard 
that kind of dreck since I collected "Newage" (rhymes with sewage) materials! 
TM won't just teach you to levitate, now courtesy of Laurrie Cabot you can 
ride a broomstick too!

	An ounce of graveyard dust for $50? Pshaw! And from the way she talks 
about how it was taken from a grave indicates to me that she is not even 
talking about a HERB! So she scratched someone's gravestone and will sell you 
what she scraped off! You know, it might be interesting to see what grave she 
scraped that off of. If you where using it as she says you should in protection 
potion you may be drawing WHOMEVER to you. You know, I bet she sells snake oil 
too.

	In short, when I see the name Laurrie Cabot in a book or article, I put 
on my wading boots!


		Tromping through the muck,

				- Ashley
From: troyce@pro-haven.cts.com (Troyce Wilson)
Newsgroups: alt.pagan
Subject: Re: Green Egg
Date: 12 Jan 1993 21:26:25 -0600
Organization: ProLine [pro-haven] - Pariahs' Haven BBS, 409/846-3177, 9600-300
NNTP-Posting-Host: cs.utexas.edu

Green Egg is available from:
      Green Egg
      P.O. Box 1542
      Ukiah, CA  95482-1542

Subscriptions are:
   $13 - US bulk mail
    18 - US 1st class/envelope
---
Internet: troyce@pro-haven.cts.com
UUCP:     crash!pro-haven!troyce
From: richa@grizzly.CNA.TEK.COM (Grizzly Amber)
Newsgroups: alt.pagan
Subject: Re: Amazons and the Labrys - was: Re: Question/symbol
Date: 8 Jan 93 21:28:15 GMT
Organization: Tektronix, Inc., Redmond,  OR.


I have been following this discussion, not due particularly to any
strong interest in people who call themselves "Amazons" or to gay
or lesbian activities, but because you *appear* to be discussing a
symbol that I wear too.

I have a small double-edged ax on a chain. There is a dragon wound
around the haft and it hangs blades down.

To me, the dragon represents earth power (ala druids) and the two
opposing blades say that the truth cuts both ways.

Now, my question to you folks is this: By me wearing this symbol,
will the world at large think I am part of what you have been discussing
rather than accepting my own interpretations?

Griz
From: abeggs@peg.pegasus.oz.au
Newsgroups: alt.pagan
Date: 11 Jan 93 15:48 EST
Subject: VELIKOVSKY UPDATE--Intro
Nf-ID: #N:peg:483700074:000:2474
Nf-From: peg.UUCP!abeggs    Jan 11 15:48:00 1993



VELIKOVSKY UPDATE--Introduction

It was Immanuel Velikovsky's claim in "Worlds in Collision"
that the spectacle of VENUS AS A COMET-LIKE BODY MARAUDING
ABOUT THE HEAVENS was once witnessed by ancient cultures all
around the globe.

The next 4 postings (VELIKOVSKY UPDATE--One, Two, Three, Fnotes)
comprise an article recently published in AEON, a Journal of
Myth and Science.

The article shows that the EVIDENCE in favour of Venus' comet-
like past is far more pervasive than Velikovsky ever imagined.

It was Velikovsky's thesis that many ancient myths commemorate
spectacular cataclysms associated with the various planets.
Ev Cochrane shows strong support for this radical view--evidence
from the mythology and astronomy of both the Old World and the
New World.

In Ev Cochrane's words:
"A Golden Age at the dawn of time was recalled as the well-
spring of civilization and deemed to be the gift of Saturn
for the simple reason that spectacular events associated with
the period of that planet's dominance provided the
"divine" inspiration for the origin and development of cities,
laws, religious rites, systems of writing, etc."

"Our entire conception of the recent history of the
solar system--not to mention celestial mechanics and a host
of other sciences--is fated to be turned upside down."

The title of the article is:
TOWARDS A SCIENCE OF MYTHOLOGY: VELIKOVSKY'S CONTRIBUTION

The author is:   Ev Cochrane

The article was originally published in November 1992 in:
*** AEON--A Symposium on Myth and Science ***  Vol.III, No.1.
Available from 2326 Knapp, AMES, IOWA, 50010, USA
(subscription: $US40).

The electronic version of the article was prepared by:
* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
*          ===              Efemeral Research Foundation    *
*       //  |  \\            Exploring the Saturn Myth      *
*     //    |    \\                                         *
*    ||-----o-----||                                        *
*     \\    |    //         Internet:  abeggs@peg.apc.org   *
*    //\ \..|../ /                                          *
*   ||  `../.\..'   AARNet/ACSNet: abeggs@peg.pegasus.oz.au *
*   `=''  /   \                                             *
*        /     \              APC Networks:  peg.abeggs     *
*       /       \                                           *
* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
From: alizard@tweekco.uucp (A.Lizard)
Newsgroups: alt.pagan
Subject: Re: Help with Songs...
Date: Fri, 08 Jan 93 22:19:03 PST
Organization: Tweek-Com Systems BBS, Moraga, CA (510) 631-0615

storm@smaug.nas.nasa.gov (Steve Storm) writes:
> Nice list Mary.  Sure makes me wish for musical notaion!!!
> 
> -storm

Two solutions:
1) Scan pages with musical notation on them, put them into GIF files,
uuencode them, and post them.
2) "                                       ", put them into PostScript
files, uuencode and post... but more people, I think, have access
to GIF than Postscript output,
Blessings,,,
A.Lizard

-------------------------------------------------------------------
A.Lizard Internet Addresses:
alizard%tweekco%boo@PacBell.COM        (preferred)
[path]!pacbell.COM!boo!tweekco!alizard (bang path for above)
alizard@gentoo.com (backup) alizard@Blue.Kludge.com (if all else fails)
PGP2.0 public key available on request.
From: brenda@wpi.WPI.EDU (brenda)
Newsgroups: alt.pagan
Subject: Help with Songs...
Date: 7 Jan 1993 14:49:08 GMT
Organization: Worcester Polytechnic Institute
NNTP-Posting-Host: wpi.wpi.edu


Well guess what everyone!  I went to my first Circle at Yule... it was Great!
i was a little nervous though... i didnt know anyone but my friend... 
it was a Circle open to all earth revering religions, and i have been 
practicing Witchcraft solitary for months now, so i felt ready...

Now, the question... are there any songs that all Pagans/Wiccans/Witches
know?  at the end of the ritual, they all broke into song heartily, and me 
and my friend were just standing there...  Are there any songs that are very
popular that i could learn?  or maybe its just a regional/group thing.
i have a tape, "wheel of the year", with a bunch of Pagan songs for each 
holiday... but i want to hear others.  i know a few good Pagan/Wiccan stores,
and i think they have tapes, but i wondered if anyone had any suggestions

:)
blessed be

brenda


-- 
brenda@wpi.wpi.edu    "One of the witnesses MUST not be telling us      
box 1256, wpi          everything..."
worcester, ma                  ~an astonished Paul Drake, to Perry Mason   
****************************************************************************
From: rjb@carson.u.washington.edu (LeGrand Cinq-Mars)
Newsgroups: alt.pagan
Subject: Re: Need Name of Song
Date: 13 Jan 1993 03:24:01 GMT
Organization: University of Washington, Seattle
NNTP-Posting-Host: carson.u.washington.edu

It's from _The Lord of the Rings_.  It describes Aragorn.
But who made it into a song?  And played it on NPR?
Is _The Lord of the Rings Pagan_?
(But that's another kettle of worms...)

--LeGrand
Xref: sparky alt.pagan:14962 talk.religion.misc:25172
From: adams@spss.com (Steve Adams)
Newsgroups: alt.pagan,talk.religion.misc
Subject: Re: The Christian Bible(s)
Date: 5 Jan 93 15:10:41 GMT
Organization: SPSS Inc.

drake+@cs.cmu.edu (Drake) writes:

>>First, their canons of scripture (= the tables of contents of their Bibles)
>>differ from one another, even in the New Testament, and do so in very strik-
>>ing ways.
>
>The Orthodox canon is identical to the Roman and Protestant, I understand.
>Is this mistaken?

As far as I know, this is true of the NT...the Oxford NRSV Study Bible
confirms this.

The OT of course differs...

The Roman canon contains these additions:

Book of Wisdom
Sirach/Ecclesiasticus
Tobit
Judith
1 & 2 Macabees
Baruch/Letter of Jeremiah
Esther 10:4-16:24
Daniel 3:34-90 (Prayer of Azariah or Song of Three Young Men)
Daniel 13 (Susanna)
Daniel 14 (Bel & the Dragon)

The Eastern (Greek, Russian, Ukranian, Bulgarian, Armenian) canon contains:

3 Macabees
4 Macabees(*)
Psalm 151(*)

* Greek Bible only

Reference: A General Introduction to the Bible, Geisler & Nix, Moody Press,
           1986 edition (Revised)

 -Steve
--
  The opinions expressed above are those of the author and not SPSS, Inc.
                         -------------------
   adams@spss.com                                  Phone: (312) 329-3522
   Steve Adams        "Space-age cybernomad"       Fax:   (312) 329-3558
Newsgroups: alt.pagan
From: Albert-Lunde@nwu.edu (Albert Lunde)
Subject: Re: Help with Songs...
Followup-To: alt.pagan
Originator: lunde@casbah.acns.nwu.edu
Reply-To: Albert-Lunde@nwu.edu (Albert Lunde)
Organization: Ministry of Silly Walks
Date: Sun, 10 Jan 1993 14:23:30 GMT

In article <C0MEAE.IMw@world.std.com> marty@world.std.com (Marty M HaleEvans) writes:
>When I saw Starhawk speak, she led a spiral dance and we chanted one you
>mentioned -- "She changes everything she touches, and all she touches changes."
>
>She also sang another little song:
>          "Who were the witches? Where did they come from?
>           Maybe your great-great-great-grandma was one.
>           Witches are wild wise women, they say,
>           And there's a little witch in every woman today."

Words and Music by Bonnie Lockhart

(I'm familiar with it from Kristin Lems -- it's on her alblum
"We Will Never Give Up" (she's mostly feminist)

-- 
 Albert Lunde         | Interfaith  |     *Y*Y*      "A branch on the
 Albert-Lunde@nwu.edu |  Bisexual   |      *Y*        tree of life"
                      |  Feminist   |.......|.........................
Newsgroups: alt.pagan
From: ba@mrcnext.cso.uiuc.edu (B.A. Davis-Howe)
Subject: Re: Documented Evidence
Organization: University of Illinois at Urbana
Date: Tue, 5 Jan 1993 04:10:54 GMT

ksm@abb-sc.abb-sc.com (Ashley) writes:


>In article <C0AzAn.MD5@news.cso.uiuc.edu>, ba@mrcnext.cso.uiuc.edu (B.A. Davis-Howe) writes...

>(clip)

>>I am responding to people's claims that there has been a structured initiatory
>>religion kept hidden during the Burning Times.  What my two Fam-Trad friends
>>have inherited is neither initiatory, or a religion.  Neither one is ritual
>>based.  If I can find anything that isn't obviously Gardnerian that is a
>>religion, I will be thrilled.  Does this still seem to be a circle?
>> 



>	I cannot say much more than this but please trust me, it *does* exist, 
>it *is* a religion and there *are* people passing it down to their children in 
>modern times. Yes, it did survive, no it's not Wicca but there are some 
>similarities. Still, it is there and they worship their deities whether anyone 
>believes they exist or not.

The following is NOT A FLAME, it is a serious question--please read it at least
three times before reacting.

What basis do we have to trust you on?  You are giving us no real information,
and asking us to blindly believe you.  I'm not willing to judge whether you
are lying or telling the truth (or telling what you believe to be the truth,
because someone else started a lie which you believe); thus I can't use your
statement as relevant evidence in this issue.

Also, you don't say what culture this tradition is from, nor whether GBG might
have been initiated in it or something related.  Since that was the original
issue, you really haven't said anything which affects the discussion.

Again, THIS WAS NOT A FLAME.  I hope this was taken in the spirit of inquiry
in which it was offered.

Enjoy the journey!
                      --Br'anArthur
                                      Queer, Peculiar, and Wyrd! :-)

******************************************************************************
"We are secretly replacing the fine quartz crystals this medicine pouch maker
usually uses with Folgers crystals.  Let's see what happens...."
                                      --DACCrowell
Xref: sparky alt.pagan:14898 talk.religion.misc:25051