HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: jimf@centerline.com (Jim Frost)
Newsgroups: rec.autos
Subject: Re: Saturn Polymer Side Panels - How tough ??
Date: 9 Nov 1992 15:22:46 GMT
Organization: CenterLine Software, Inc.
Distribution: usa
NNTP-Posting-Host: 140.239.3.202

smith@ctron.com (Lawrence C Smith) writes:
>Keywords: 
>In article <1ddo31INN2h3@rave.larc.nasa.gov>, ghee@vision.larc.nasa.gov (Terry A. Ghee) writes:
>>As for airplanes, the skin is not just for good looks and aerodynamics.
>>It is an integral part of the structure.  Without the skin taking some
>>of the stress, the frame would not have enough strength to still fly!

>Most planes are what the Europeans call "monocoque" construction.  In the
>US we call it "unitized" or "unit-body", sometimes shorted to "unibody",
>and it is the way most all cars are built in the US and Europe, except for
>a tiny handful that are still body-on-frame, where the subframe carries
>the whole structural requirement, and the body just "rides" on top of it,
>and a somewhat larger handful of space-frame cars, like the Saturns.

Very nice response.  Monocoque construction is used in airplanes, and
many new cars, because it provides the best possible strength with the
fewest materials -- which saves a lot of weight (and cost, too).  In
cars it also provides good impact energy dissipation with less work
than space-frame construction.

jim frost
jimf@centerline.com
Newsgroups: rec.autos
From: bbarnhar@sauronwebo.dg.com (Brian Barnhart)
Subject: Re: Advice - 1984 Pontiac Sunbird
Date: Wed, 11 Nov 92 14:58:16 GMT
Organization: NSDD, Data General Corp.
Keywords: Advice, Pontiac, Sunbird, 2000

In article <1992Nov10.171831.23382@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu>, mgarber@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (Max D Garber) writes:
|> I drive an '83 2000 SE (Two-door hatchback)  I have not had too much trouble 
|> with it except the cooling system.  make sure you get the radiator flushed 
|> every two years and keep an eye on your thermostat.
|> 

 I'll second the need to keep an eye on the cooling system.  I've never owned a 2000 but
both my father and sister have.  My father never had any problems with it that I can 
remember (I lived at home when he had it and we do most of our own repairs).  My sisters
only problem was with the cooling system.  It was cronically overheating on summer days
w/ the AC on.  She had it to the dealers several times w/o any luck.  The dealer seemed
to think the engine was partially clogged if I remember right.  She eventually traded it
in because she didn't want to deal with it anymore.

If I owned one I would probably flush it at least once a year as a preventative measure.


-- 
+=============================================================================+
| Brian A. Barnhart                               bbarnhar@sauron.webo.dg.com |
| Data General Corporation                                     (508) 870-6961 |
| Westboro, MA                         Speaking for myself, not Data General. |
+=============================================================================+
Newsgroups: rec.autos
From: bqueiser@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (Brian J Queiser)
Subject: Re: saturn/OLDsmobile speculation
Organization: The Ohio State University
Date: Mon, 9 Nov 1992 13:03:03 GMT

rjwade@rainbow.ecn.purdue.edu (Robert J. Wade) writes:

>OLDs general manager john rock, commenting on that oldsmobile will totally
>buy into the saturn experiment said, "as i have jokingly said, we didn't
>have any success to cloud our decision process".
>he also has refused to ask gm board for a public comment supporting the
>continued existence of OLDmobile.  there is some talk of a name change to
>aurora, one of olds show-cars.  if they don't merge with saturn maybe they
>will be given the freedom saturn has to design their own cars??

Isn't this sorta what GM did with Cadillac a few years ago when Cadillac
looked as if they'd be selling 1977 technology and styling forever?
I have read tho, that the much adored STS Northstar is outselling the
'vanilla' Sevilles by a margin that is forcing a cutback in production.
Could old men with $45K finally be getting a clue?  If only I saw quality
production put into those cars....  Maybe someday.

Regards,

Brian

bqueiser@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu
------------------------------------------------------------------------
I am the engineer, I can choose K.
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Department of Engineering Mechanics
Ohio State University
Columbus, OH
From: hhtra@usho72.hou281.chevron.com (T.M.Haddock)
Newsgroups: rec.autos
Subject: Re: FLAME! Only a Manual!
Date: 10 Nov 92 00:12:06 GMT
Organization: Chevron

In article <BxAuD9.8E4@cs.uiuc.edu>, ward@cs.uiuc.edu (Christ Ward) writes:
|> asr_2@dac.mdcbbs.com writes:
|> 
|> ...lets say your in the middle of no place and get into a wreck.
|> Then lets say your car (auto) is flipped but the other car (manual trany)
|> is good to go, and the other driver is near death...

 Gee, this is begining to sound just like when I worked in the 
 Defense/Aerospace Industry at Crew Station Review Team meetings 
 we had with the Air Force pilots, and they'd go like this....

  ... what if the pilot was hit in the left leg and right arm
  and the navigator was hit in the right leg and left arm and 
  the control switch was in the middle of the panel and the 
  aircraft was in a 30 deg per second roll and an enemy fighter
  had missile lock on and just then a bird-strike shatters the
  canopy...
From: aas7@po.CWRU.Edu (Andrew A. Spencer)
Newsgroups: rec.autos
Subject: Re: Ford Tempo + SHO engine = ?
Date: 13 Nov 1992 04:10:42 GMT
Organization: Case Western Reserve University, Cleveland, OH (USA)
Reply-To: aas7@po.CWRU.Edu (Andrew A. Spencer)
NNTP-Posting-Host: slc5.ins.cwru.edu







>
>Right after the LH/Lexus fiasco, I pulled up to a light,and right next to
>me came a teal '92 Tempo with the V6 driven by a very attractive young
>woman--who kept peering at the badge on my Acclaim. Anyway, I sat there
>and thought, "Hmmmm--now wouldn't it be cool,since the Tempo/Topaz are being
>redesigned in another year, if they went ahead and made a Tempo GT and stuffed
>the SHO engine in it--made this thing maybe a limited production vehicle--and
>sell it through select dealerships?"
>
>Then again, maybe I should cut back on the hot chocolate in the morning...
>Your opinions are welcome..bat this idea around a bit...
>
Yeah..toss the high revver into the tempo...and the low revver mustang 5.0
into the taurus......maybe a little extra power.....???
DREW
-- 
??????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????
??????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????
?????????????????????????????????-----whatever!
From: jitloke@tekig5.pen.tek.com (Jit-Loke Lim)
Newsgroups: rec.autos
Subject: Re: Top 20 Selling Vehicles of 1992
Date: 12 Nov 92 22:07:08 GMT
Article-I.D.: tekig7.7573
Organization: Tektronix, Inc., Beaverton,  OR.

In article <BxL9yK.5CH@news.cso.uiuc.edu> mchaffee@ux4.cso.uiuc.edu (REAL LIFE?!?!  HA!!) writes:
>though (and in one sense BECAUSE) the German cars cost more.  The German
>objective in car building is quality first, profit second.  The American and


Isn't that the truth? I mean after all do they make the ultimate driving 
machine. The sad truth about this relentless quest for engineering perfection
though is that Porsche profits are down. I just wish Porsche would get
their priorities together and charge more for their cars and make some profit
instead of screwing around with quality and keeping their prices and profits
low.

Jit
From: aas7@po.CWRU.Edu (Andrew A. Spencer)
Newsgroups: rec.autos
Subject: RE: NISSAN'S ALTIMA CHALLENGES ACCORD, TAURUS, CAMARY
Date: 9 Nov 1992 05:34:42 GMT
Organization: Case Western Reserve University, Cleveland, OH (USA)
Reply-To: aas7@po.CWRU.Edu (Andrew A. Spencer)
NNTP-Posting-Host: slc5.ins.cwru.edu


hmm..nicely written, in what seems to me to be a biased(almost) manner.
hmm..i kinda was curious what was competing w/ what..
all i have to say is...AAAKKK!!!!...the only redeaming feature i saw in
the whole article of the altima was that it has all analog guages...
but, i am not buying one of any of these (unless it's and SHO..which is
also not happening soon!..*sigh*)..so..overall.nice!..but no six..
why not toss in the 3.0 outta the 300zx?..:-)
DREW
ps..faux@ wood???..doube AAAAKKKK!!!!!..i HATE REAL wood..why the hell
do these idiots have to put real damn wood into nice cars like jags and
the miata??..and to have fake wood??..how sick can these minds be??
hmm thinking of which..how about the plymouth(?) town and country
(minivan by chrysler corp..whichever it is..) with the fake woody side 
panels...SICK!!!!..ah well..they sell to some, i suppose..
-- 
??????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????
??????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????
?????????????????????????????????-----whatever!
Newsgroups: rec.autos
From: mshar@mentor.cc.purdue.edu (Mike Mshar)
Subject: Closed vs. Open Ratio Transmissions
Keywords: What is the difference?
Organization: Purdue University
Date: Fri, 6 Nov 1992 16:28:54 GMT


Very simple question.

What is the difference between an open ratio manual transmission and a
closed ratio manual transmission??

No one ever told me, and most of the cars I drove were autos, so I never
really had an oppurtunity to find out.

Thanks

Mike
-- 
|       Michael G. Mshar        | My Life-Long Goal: To keep common sense    |
|   mmshar@mn.ecn.purdue.edu    | alive and keep the idiots from taking over.|
|  mshar@mentor.cc.purdue.edu   |     \\President, Nice Guys Anonymous//     |
|____>>> United States Steel, Mechanical Engineer, Technical Services <<<____|
From: thatchh@hplsla.hp.com (Thatch Harvey)
Date: Thu, 29 Oct 1992 00:07:03 GMT
Subject: Re: Motorcycle mechanics
Organization: HP Lake Stevens, WA
Newsgroups: rec.autos

>> 
>> Given my experience with cars, how hard is it to work on motorcycles
>> compared to working on cars?  Is it as worth it to buy a basket case
>> of a motorcycle and get it running to use for commuting?
>> 
>> SPECIFICS:
>> 
>> Is it harder or easier to work on a motorcycle?  How much?
>> Are parts availability more or less of an issue?  How much?
>> How cheap/expensive is it to work on a motorcycle?
>> Is it more or less time consuming?  How much?
>> 
>> -- 
>> Dennis Lou             
>> ----------


              It is about the same difficulty. There are different challenges
to learn and overcome and different special tools to acquire, but the
complexity is about the same.  Motorcycle parts are definitely more expensive.
I would say a good 2X.  On the other hand, the initial investment in the
machine is much less.  Unless the bike has a swoopy plastic fairing surrounding
the engine, the access is much better. Perch yourself on a stool next to the
bike and have at it.  There are far fewer things to go wrong on a bike. No
heater controls, no door latches, no window risers etc. A well maintained
motorcycle will give many miles of trouble free transportation.  
Parts availability is not an issue as long as you have a decent size dealer
in your area for the make you choose.  The first thing you'll want to buy
is an impact driver (the kind you hit with a hammer) to remove all the
Phillips head screws. Failure to use one will lead to misery. If you booger
a screw up even slightly, don't put it back in. Keep a stock of common sizes on
hand.  Whenever possible, replace the Phillips with Allen head. The
manufacturers are finally doing that on the new bikes. I noticed my
new one is almost all Allen. I like working on the motorcycle, because it is 
so much more of a performance engine.

                  Thatch Harvey


    %%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%
    % Thatch Harvey                                                    %
    % uucp: hplabs!hplsla!thatchh        domain: thatchh@hplsla.hp.com %
    % Hewlett-Packard              Lake Stevens Instrument Division    %
    % Lake Stevens, WA                                                 %
    % (206) 335-2083                Merkur XR4Ti, Suzuki GSX1100G,     %
    %                               Prince SR3 D Sports Racer          %
    %%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%
From: a725911@bugs.mc.ti.com (Dave DesRoches)
Newsgroups: rec.autos
Subject: When is leasing BETTER than buying?
Date: 12 Nov 92 23:27:40 GMT
Organization: Texas Instruments Materials and Controls Group


First off - let me apologize; my question has the look of a FAQ, but I 
scanned the group and couldn't find one, nor an answer to this question.

My girlfriend has an '88 Jetta which she's dying to get rid of - constantly 
in need of repairs (which I'm finding to be common among VW owners I've 
talked to).  She drives roughly 23K miles per year and we're considering 
buying vs. leasing.  I've heard that in instances where mileage is high, 
that leasing can sometimes be attractive - though I've seen some lease terms 
where there are charges for mileage over some limit.

Can anyone boil this down to simple terms?  How are sales tax and excise tax 
handled on leased cars (she's from RI)?  Can (some) lease expenditures be 
written off on taxes?  Are rates different on financing a leased vs. 
purchased vehicle?  etc...etc...

If anyone could give me a brief synopsis of the pros and cons, I'd 
appreciate it.

Thanks and regards,

Dave
 
          //   //       //   ______________________________________________
         //            //  /                                                \
   ///////   //  ///////  | Dave DesRoches           e-mail: daved@mc.ti.com |
 //    //   // //    //   | Texas Instruments                                |
 //   //   //  //   //    | Materials & Controls Group                       |
  //////  //    //////    | Attleboro, Massachusetts  02703     TI-msg: DESR |
         //               | USA                                              |
   //   //                 \________________________________________________/
    ////
From: brd@images1.Waterloo.NCR.COM (Barry Drodge)
Newsgroups: rec.autos
Subject: Re: WARRANTY OUTSIDE THE US
Date: 6 Nov 92 17:54:47 GMT
Article-I.D.: ncrwat.10131
Distribution: na

nestor+@cs.cmu.edu (Nestor F Michelena) writes:

>What happens when you travel abroad and your car breaks down?

>Do dealers in, e.g., Canada honor the warranty on cars bought in the US?

>Thanks,


Generally Yes, providing that the brand is sold here.  Look in the back of
your owners manual and it should tell you about service in Canada.

Some models of car/truck are not sold in Canada (mitsubishi comes to mind,
except for the ones chrylser sells)) so you may have trouble getting service.


--
Barry.R.Drodge@Waterloo.NCR.COM
Imaging Systems Division, NCR Canada LTD. 580 Weber ST. N, Waterloo, Ontario
Canada N2J 4G5                         Voice: 519-884-1710 FAX:519-884-0610
"My job is so top secret that it keeps me from knowing what I am doing!"
Newsgroups: rec.autos
From: cka52397@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (Slartibartfast)
Subject: Re: Geo Prizm; where is the engine made
Organization: University of Illinois at Urbana
Distribution: na
Date: Thu, 12 Nov 1992 00:50:43 GMT

In article <1992Nov11.193514.16565@cbnewsj.cb.att.com> vjd11@cbnewsj.cb.att.com (virgil.j.duncan) writes:
>In article <BxI5Jw.362.2@cs.cmu.edu>, murthy+@EDRC.CMU.EDU (Sesh Murthy) writes:
>> PS:  I got a lot of flames for saying I like my new
>> Bonneville.  Don't flame me for buying American.
>> I am not preaching to you so do not preach
>> to me.  I get my dose of religion on Sundays at 
>> the temple.
>> PPS: No problems yet with my Bonneville. (45 days
>> and 3000 miles)
>> 
>Do not say yet - it is for sure! I got a 1990 and I put on it
>36,000 miles in less than 2 years without a hitch.
>Just the regular maintenance (oil changes, plugs and fuel and air
>filters). It is probably the best value on the market today talking
>about 4DR sedans this size.
>The new Bonneville is not much different mechanically from the old one.
>Let me know how yours has behaved because I want to trade-in mine
>in the next few months for a new one.

	According to C/D it _is_ the best value for $30K (the SSEi), even 
though that particular model has those silly plastic addon moldings.  PLEASE
take them off, and put on something less tacky, Pontiac, you will sell many
more cars.
-- 
***RUSH***YES***FLOYD***PEARLJAM***METALLICA***STING***PAULSIMON***REM***U2***
*  "We are going to have the best educated American people in the World!" ;-)*
*   Vice President Dan Quayle  September 21, 1988 ;-)  Clinton 1996! ;-) ;-) *
*******(c-amin1@uiuc.edu)***Chintan Amin***UniversityofIllinois***GoIllini****
From: aas7@po.CWRU.Edu (Andrew A. Spencer)
Newsgroups: rec.autos
Subject: Re: FLAME! Only a Manual!
Date: 13 Nov 1992 01:37:37 GMT
Organization: Case Western Reserve University, Cleveland, OH (USA)
Reply-To: aas7@po.CWRU.Edu (Andrew A. Spencer)
NNTP-Posting-Host: slc5.ins.cwru.edu


In a previous article, mchaffee@ux4.cso.uiuc.edu (REAL LIFE?!?!  HA!!) says:

>Vision@cup.portal.com (Vision - Tester) writes:
[race cars deleted]
>With the possible exception of a smooth, perfectly timed double-clutch down-
>shift.  This feels sublime when done well on ANY car, even a big manly muscle
>car.  The only advantage an automatic gives you, IMHO, is the pride of knowing
>that your car doesn't need a stick to kick ass.  But I have this nasty feeling
>that the most worked-over, improved, revalved automatic is still going to 
>yield less impressive acceleration than a stick shift on the same engine.  You
>can't escape the fact that the torque converter eats energy, no matter what
>type of engine it's hooked up to.  The only cars that actually BENEFIT from
>automatics are turbos, as the auto allows you to keep up boost on launch and
>during shifts.

but the only time that a turbo benefits from the auto is off the line..
(which is not, to me..that high of a point)..now..what is to me a high 
point is passing power...you drop the pedal of an auto equipped turbo
machine, and what happens?..hesitation while it decides to kick down into
the lower gear, and then finally turbo kicks in(this is assuming that you
just decided to pass..not like when you downshift manually..in which case..
well..neither is probably better..but IMHO the stick is still more fun!)
and off you go!..while, in a stick..you kick it down a gear(maybe two, if
you wanna..another plus, in my book..you know where it needs to be, whereas
the auto has to feel it out to decide whether or not to kick it down two)
and blip the throttle at the same time..boost is up, you let out on the 
clutch, drop the throttle, and you are gone..passing, with a stick that
is worth being a stick, is better and funner, even on a turbo...off the
line is not nearly as fun..sides, you can almost always make a car put out
more than it's tires will hold at take off...

>Find a mid-1970's Euro-spec BMW 3.0CSi.  Tip gently into the throttle and slow-
>ly release the clutch.  Accelerate moderately to 3000 RPM in first gear.  Stand
>on it.  That smoke in your rear-view mirror ain't oil.  Let the tires catch,
>accelerate to redline, shift into second.  Stand on it.  Is that smoke again?
>I think so.
wonderful example..hadda leave it..even though, again..spinning tires is a
deceptive measure of performance...

>The only enthusiast cars, IMHO, that should be automatic are turbos.  Now try
>this one:
NO WAY!(IMHO)
DREW
enuff of this..you drive what you want..i'll drive what i want..and we can
both feel pity for the other "fool" who simply cannot see what fun it is
to do it our way!
-- 
??????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????
??????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????
?????????????????????????????????-----whatever!
From: tf26+@andrew.cmu.edu (Truman Fenton)
Newsgroups: rec.autos
Subject: Re: Noise when turning left -- mitigates when applying brake. Huh?
Date: 10 Nov 92 05:20:25 GMT
	<1992Nov9.164514.27286@hawk.cs.ukans.edu>
Distribution: na
Organization: Freshman, CIT general, Carnegie Mellon, Pittsburgh, PA

I did not read the original post, but I think that I migh have a good
sugestion.  Most brakepads for disk brakes have an indicator tab
built-in which tells the operator that the brakes need to be replaced. 
This is a LOT less expensive that a new car, so drop in to Midas and see
what they say.  

A NOTE here.  Midas offers three levels of service on brakes.  First is
the lifetime warranty deal.  This is the best option if you are going to
keep the car for a while or if you want better resale value (I don't
know if it carries over to the new owner, but it is the best brake job
money can buy from what I've heard.)  Second and third are shorter
waranties.  You alone can weigh the cost of the service vs. the
reliability.

Truman
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
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INTERNET:  tf26@andrew.cmu.edu        || 
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(self-titled but others have agreed)  ||   Pittsburgh, PA 15213
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What I believe:  (A comprehensive list.)
  a)  An examined life is worth living.
  b)  True love DOES exist, you just have to find it.  (Or let it find you.)
  c)  Our environment MUST be preserved, restored, conserved.
  d)  There is a piece of wilderness in all of us.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: jimf@centerline.com (Jim Frost)
Newsgroups: rec.autos
Subject: Re: shoud there be two different licences
Date: 12 Nov 1992 15:30:34 GMT
Organization: CenterLine Software, Inc.
NNTP-Posting-Host: 140.239.3.202

rjwade@rainbow.ecn.purdue.edu (Robert J. Wade) writes:
>In article <1992Nov12.013141.7090@wam.umd.edu> jailbird@next02wor.wam.umd.edu (serial killer) writes:
>>Should we have a one licence to operate a manual transmisssion and one for  
>>automatic, ecept if you know how to drive a mnual you can drive a auto  
>>with no problem.

>oh nooooooooooooooo!  sounds like someone wants to run for office!

Some states already do this -- you must prove proficiency with a
standard transmission in order to legally drive one.  In fact, my MA
license has an "automatic transmission only" restriction listed on the
back, although I've never seen a license with that restriction.  It
sounds good on paper but to be honest most people I know who have
problems with sticks just plain won't drive them rather than flail
around in traffic.  I don't think legislation is necessary (and
apparently the DMV in MA doesn't either given that they don't really
make use of that restriction).

Personally I think if you're going to change the licensing system you
ought to make it such that you really must be proficient to get the
license rather than making lots of little restrictions.  Most testing
systems are ridiculously easy, both in the written and driving
portions.

jim frost
jimf@centerline.com
Newsgroups: rec.autos
From: mshar@mentor.cc.purdue.edu (Mike Mshar)
Subject: Re: help chrysler!!!!!!!!!!!
Organization: Purdue University Computing Center
Distribution: rec
Date: Sat, 7 Nov 1992 23:13:57 GMT


Two things to check for.

First, my friends car had three out of his six fuel injectors go out, and
that killed the car. So make sure they are functioning.

Secondly, and more likely, check out the ignition module or box, whichever
your car has. Whenever a car just dies out, with no firing whatsoever, it
usually means that the problem is in the ignition. I know that failed
ignition modules are a common cause for this type of problem, so make sure
that the spark plugs are getting electricity before you replace anything
else. 

Good Luck and stick with GM   :-)

Mike
-- 
|       Michael G. Mshar        | My Life-Long Goal: To keep common sense    |
|   mmshar@mn.ecn.purdue.edu    | alive and keep the idiots from taking over.|
|  mshar@mentor.cc.purdue.edu   |     \\President, Nice Guys Anonymous//     |
|____>>> United States Steel, Mechanical Engineer, Technical Services <<<____|