HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: jasonp@sunbabe.Prime.COM (Jason Pascucci)
Subject: Whaaaa?.... was Re: NBR Proposal: Remotely Induced Message Windows
Organization: ComputerVision Services
Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1992 22:23:12 GMT

I'm suprised this hasn't be bashed into the ground yet,
and to see two similar proposals boggles the mind. My
apologies if you were being sarcastic, and I missed
your subtlety.

Look, the CORRECT answer is obvious: Make the damn message 
windows DEFAULT ON!!!! G'z, I can't believe this hasn't been 
proposed, or isn't being implemented. You can figure out the 
size of the screen (all you really need is the length), give 
them some interesting split message windows. 

On another note, I do like the 'attention getter' of messages,
but I would propose a less painful solution.

(This is pseudocode for those of you non-cs types. :)

1) If  (incoming message has the correct options bit set)
     { 
       switch ((int) *.xtrekrc->AttentionAction) {
	case (int) '':
        case (int) 'i':
        case (int) 'ib':
        case (int) 'bi':
           Invert the color on the display;
        case (int) 'ib':
        case (int) 'bi':
	case (int) 'b':
	   Ring da bell;
 	   break;
	otherwise 
           Crash the X server.
        }
      }

2) The leading attention character should be settable in .xtrekrc,
    if (message[0] == .xtrekrc->AttentionBeginChar) ||
        ('E' message has armies & !is_StarBase) ||
	('E' message has wtemp & is_Starbase) )
      { 
	Send a packet with the correct attribute bit set
      }

3) The message packet should be given a header field, which
shows 1) The length of the packet, so you don't always
have to send 80 characters (If memory serves, it doesn't
have this today), and 2) an attribute field, of which only
one bit (the attention signal) is used. 

Also, Is anybody implementing a wait-queue messaging system?

--
Jason R. Pascucci
jasonp@primerd.prime.com
From: paulsen@eniac.seas.upenn.edu (Brian Paulsen)
Newsgroups: rec.games.netrek
Subject: Re: GB at LAR
Date: 21 Nov 92 00:25:03 GMT
Organization: University of Pennsylvania

I've thought about entering another team into the INL.  The home server
will be placed at where I work.  Due to security measures, net lag into
my server depends on when we get internet access.  However, it is not
*my* fault that we don't have net access.

Realize, of course, that I will suffer the same lag playing out that other
teams face when they play me.  It seems fair from my point of view.

Oh yeah, did I forget to mention that for away games, I will play from
somewhere *other* than my home server (say, maybe UPenn).  You wouldn't
really expect me to wade thru that lag if I had a choice, do you?

Admittedly, this argument is extreme, but in essence, there is little
difference between this argument and USC's.

What should be done with USC?

This depends on what you view the INL as...  If you want it to be bragging
rights only, then USC should probably not be allowed.

However, what I've gotten out of the INL as been the opportunity to set
up high clue games not only in tourneys, but also in scrimmages.  With
the objective of having a clueful team (which USC certainly is) in the
INL, and the ability to play against them whenever you can, I think they
should be allowed in.

If we want to satisfy both objectives, then I suggest that we allow them
in, AND change the format of the INL schedule.  It's pretty ridiculous that
a team has to go 4-0 to make the playoffs.  There are many good teams
that deserved to make the playoffs and didn't solely because of how
the schedule worked out.

Brian
Organization: Senior, Chemical Engineering, Carnegie Mellon, Pittsburgh, PA
Newsgroups: rec.games.netrek
Date: Wed, 18 Nov 1992 23:09:50 -0500 
From: "Timothy C. Worsley" <tw1r+@andrew.cmu.edu>
Subject: Re: BRONCO: Is now RSA.
	<1992Nov17.202307@cs.bham.ac.uk>

Excerpts from netnews.rec.games.netrek: 17-Nov-92 Re: BRONCO: Is now
RSA. James O. C. Hawtin@cs.bh (636)

> |> 
> |> ObTrek : when will we see the first player from a .su site? 
> |> 

> Well Spaceman I think the answer to your question is NEVER, as all you
> Yanks will
> be running RSA servers which means that you will have it all to yourselves!

	Here's one for the books.  JCH isn't a Yank.
	Now we all know that he wouldn't use a client illeagly, but, not
wanting the good name of Spaceman Spiff to go away, he had given his
character password to his Yank office-mate (who also uses his personal
account).  I think that the plan all along has been for all non-Yanks to
do the same (Uh, you do all have American office-mates don't you?  Just
nod.).
	Is this clear enough?

ZZnew guy
Organization: Robotics Institute, Carnegie Mellon, Pittsburgh, PA
From: surge@cqs.washington.edu (Jonathan Sari)
Newsgroups: rec.games.netrek
Subject: Re: Your ranting has become tiresome.
Date: 16 Nov 92 02:44:31 GMT
Article-I.D.: buck.surge.721881871
Organization: University of Washington

tw1r+@andrew.cmu.edu (Timothy C. Worsley) writes:
>	Isn't empire based on Conquest?

I thought that conquest (By Jef Poskanzer of net fame) was based on empire.
Newsgroups: rec.games.netrek
From: tz@ll.mit.edu (Taras Zommers)
Subject: Re: IC forfiets
Organization: MIT Lincoln Laboratory
Date: Tue, 17 Nov 92 17:10:13 GMT

In article <1e9sb0INNgei@agate.berkeley.edu> tom@soda.berkeley.edu (Tom Holub) writes:
>In article <1992Nov16.214444.9633@ll.mit.edu> tz@ll.mit.edu (Taras Zommers) writes:
>)
>)That is the point though... it is only a game and I will not drive all the
>)way back to work at midnight to play netrek... and why is it that every
>)other game we've played the teams have been able to find computers in the
>)early evening or on the weekends.  
>
>
>You haven't played my team, then; weekends are bad for us (specifically, for
>me, but I do the scheduling) and there's no way we can play before 8PM 
>Pacific time; 11PM your time.  At universities with highly active CS 
>programs (like CMU and Berkeley) the machines tend to be, well, highly 
>active, and it can be difficult to get machines until all the sane
>people have gone home for the night.
>
>Note that school teams need to get 8 machines, whereas you have to
>get one.  Trust me, it's not easy.
> -Tom

Ahhh.. it is nice to have a real discussion here rather than that "twink calling"
one gets from that "other school".  I understand the problem and if weekends
are not possible I'm sure Friday nights would work out for those east-vs-west
games.  I'm sure Friday nights are pretty quiet around most CS labs.  Even early
in the mornings on weekends would probably work out.
From: tom@soda.berkeley.edu (Tom Holub)
Newsgroups: rec.games.netrek
Subject: Re: New INL scheduling proposal
Date: 24 Nov 1992 04:46:36 GMT
Organization: U.C. Berkeley, CS Undergraduate Association
NNTP-Posting-Host: soda.berkeley.edu

In article <1992Nov23.131419.25653@athena.mit.edu> wildman@athena.mit.edu (Timothy Worsley) writes:
)In article <1eq4rmINN3d3@agate.berkeley.edu> tom@soda.berkeley.edu (Tom Holub) writes:
)
)>Before I go on with this post, let me say that I think it's really
)>stupid to take a proposal that's before the INL council, and to which a
)>number of INL council members have provided objections, and posting
)>it to the net as if it's a brand new thing, and failing to attach
)>any of our arguments.  Public discussion is fine, but self-serving
)>propaganda is not what the INL needs.
)
)I'm offended by that.  As a player of netrek, and the INL, I like what I
)see, and according to what you say, I shouldn't have seen it.  This
)concerns me.  I am very glad that Rob brought this into "the light",
)and I will take a very dim view of any attempt to place it once again
)in darkness.
)
)Why?  Now I can go and bug my councilor and see how we can go about
)adopting this new system.

I do not object to posting issues that are before the INL Council.
I most strenuously *do* object to *slanted* postings about issues
that are before the INL Council.  This kind of propaganda shows
no respect for the rest of the INL Council.

)>Or, I get challanged by the #5 team and accept, and then the #5 team loses
)>to a team below them.  Do they still have the right to challange?
)
)Who really cares?  This is a detail.  Rob didn't fill out all the details because
)he didn't want to post a 20K doccument, but rather an idea.  If you care strongly
)about this detail, then get others to care about it and insure it gets included
)in the final package.

My point is, there are a *million* details in a ladder system.  It will
create lots of work for team captains, and the INL Council will be
called upon to decide many scheduling disputes.  As a team captain
and an INL Council member, I don't want to do more work for an idea
of dubious value.

)Well, now, here is an advantage of Rob's plan:
)	Rather than leave things to an arbitrary, unfair system/rule/council,
)you can decide which team you really want to play.  Maybe you will have a reason,
)maybe not.  The point is, we don't necessarily need a hard-fast rule on accepting
)challenges.  Just chose which one you want to accept and accept it!

But you can challange whoever you want to challange now; scrimmages 
don't 'count' but they are fun games.
 -Tom
From: jimmyhua@aludra.usc.edu (Jimmy Huang)
Newsgroups: rec.games.netrek
Subject: Re: Help at last
Date: 22 Nov 92 00:00:31 GMT
Article-I.D.: aludra.1eoaqvINNd87
Organization: University of Southern California, Los Angeles, CA
NNTP-Posting-Host: aludra.usc.edu

Whhhatt???

Explain in five lines or less please.  I hate reading. 

(a uudecoded picture would be even better). 

Jimmy
Newsgroups: rec.games.netrek
From: kosakd@reis36.alleg.edu (David Kosak)
Subject: NeXT netrek  (NeXTrek)
Reply-To: kosakd
Organization: Allegheny College
Date: Wed, 18 Nov 1992 07:39:30 GMT


Um,
	Does anybody know if there are any NeXT applications that allow us  
NeXT users to join in on the Netrek games?  Surely someone's made one by  
now.

	Please email your response - I don't get on this part of the  
grazer often.  

	kosakd@alleg.edu

	(Dave Kosak)

	Thanks a lot.  (:

--
________________________________________________________________________
|_____|______|______|______|______|______|______|______|______|______|_|
|__|______|_DAVID GEORGE KOSAK_|______|kosakd@alleg.edu____|______|____|
|_____|______|______|______|______|______|______|______|______|______|_|
|__|______|______|______|______|______|______|______|______|______|____|
Newsgroups: rec.games.netrek
From: von@cory.Berkeley.EDU (Steve Von Worley)
Subject: Re: The INL council (was about INL scheduling)
Organization: University of California, at Berkeley
Date: Tue, 24 Nov 1992 06:07:47 GMT

In article <1eseu3INNejj@agate.berkeley.edu> tom@soda.berkeley.edu (Tom Holub) writes:
>In article <Uf4GOSC00WB2Arg5Ft@andrew.cmu.edu> Nanci Ann Miller <nm0w+@andrew.cmu.edu> writes:
>)
>)This should NOT be done during the summer when fewer people are around and
>)people who submit their names should be those who feel they can be
>)impartial and not vote down things that come out of one particular place
>)not because it isn't a good proposal but because it came from that place.
>)(If the ladder proposal had come from somewhere other than CMU - Berkeley
>)for instance, would Tom have shot it down so vehemently?  I wonder....)
>
>There is a very basic point that a lot of people are missing; the
>INL is setup the way *I* think it should be set up, for the simple
>reason that I was the one who did it.  It is only natural, then,
>that I will be opposed to any major changes to the structure of the
>INL; for example, if I thought a ladder system was the way to go, I 
>would have set it up as a ladder system.

Finally!  The real reason why things are the way they are comes out!

Perhaps it is time to abandon the current INL system and set something
up which has fairer representation?  While it is cool that the INL
has worked as it has, it is not written in stone that the INL must
be the authority in the netrek world.  Once things become static,
counterproductive, and dictated by a very small group of people (one?),
it's time to change.

<prepared to be flamed to death>

Sandia
-- 
Steve Von Worley
von@cory.berkeley.edu
Computer Science Gradual Student
University of California at Berzerkly 
Newsgroups: rec.games.netrek
From: zog@peppermint.cns.udel.edu (Michael D. Eisenberg [Dan])
Subject: Re: NBR Proposal: Remotely Induced Message Windows
Organization: Barbarians R Us
Distribution: na
Date: Wed, 18 Nov 1992 19:00:34 GMT

i second this; but with an ammendment:

Ammendment:

	that cluefull players (tm) be able to set a variable somewhere
({.x/net}trekrc or the options window) to turn this OFF.  it seems that the
easy way to implement could result in people flipping windows on and off
or something like that.

-Commander W. T. Sherman
-dan/zog


-- 
	ZZZZ  OOOO  GGGG	|	zog@freezer.cns.udel.edu
	  Z   O  O  G __	|	   zog@bach.udel.edu
	 Z    O  O  G  G	|	At Skool: (302) 837-3227 
	ZZZZ  OOOO  GGGG	|	At Home:  (301) 384-6507
From: srt@aero.org (Scott R. Turner)
Newsgroups: rec.games.netrek
Subject: Re: GB at LAR
Date: 16 Nov 92 17:11:15 GMT
Organization: The Aerospace Corporation, El Segundo, CA
NNTP-Posting-Host: sun-marino.aero.org

It's too bad the net between Southern and Northern California is so
lousy.  Otherwise I think there would be some great rivalries.  Maybe
when the uchico machine starts seeing some use.

Anyway, LA Riot ougt to receive the INL's "Most Gracious" team award.
After what I thought were some acrimonious comments by the GBs after
the first matchup, LAR agrees to play an important playoff game at
UCLA to create a more even field of play.  Bravo.  (And we won't even
mention that they played their most important game of the season
shuttling their X displays from USC to UCLA.)

						-- Scott T.
From: leonard@mimsy.umd.edu (Leonard Dickens)
Newsgroups: rec.games.netrek
Subject: Re: NBR Proposal: keymaps
Date: 17 Nov 92 22:56:27 GMT
Organization: Deep Thirteen, Gizmonics Institute

Daved Sward writes:
>I don't know if something else like this has been proposed.  If there
>has been another proposal with enough overlap with this to not warrant
>this, feel free to cheerfully ignore this.
>
>Proposal: ship-dependant keymaps
> [...]

This is already an Official Change:

|keymap/option/parameters swap by ship-type, or possibly on-the-fly:
|have a different set of program variables be loaded automatically for
|each type of ship.  Possibly allow the player to invoke such a change
|on the fly.

(Note that "program variables" in the above is supposed to mean
exactly keymap/options/parameters.)

-Leonard
Newsgroups: rec.games.netrek
From: palane@iastate.edu (Paul A. Lane)
Subject: Re: Comments during games
Organization: Iowa State University, Ames IA
Date: Tue, 17 Nov 1992 15:55:13 GMT

In <Yf2_Oaq00Vp5MBnFVu@andrew.cmu.edu> "Timothy C. Worsley" <tw1r+@andrew.cmu.edu> writes:

I wrote earlier:

>> My test is what happens when I yell OGG THE BASE DAMNIT! If that doesn't
>> get people running, I might as well forget it and just scum.

>	Lot's of times it's a bad idea to Ogg the base.  I frequnetly find
>players on my team who feel that Ogging a base is always the right thing
>to do.  I hate them.

True. I guess I should add the caveat that I do this when a base has quite
obviously overextended itself. Usually the border between "spheres of
influence" such as the dividing line between Rom and Fed space. Unless it's
calling for help (with armies on board for ex.), I restrict my ranting at
the team to times when I'm stating what seems to be the painfully obvious.

One doesn't necessarily have to kill the base, just drive the damn thing
back. Space control is another clear example. I saw a recent game where
the Feds were down to a few planets and were strung out all over the galaxy.
Nothing wrong with keeping Roms out of your own space, but pursuit is awfully
dangerous at a time like that.


>R4->Rom OGG BASE NOW!!!!!
>R2->Rom Why
>. . .
>twenty lines of foo
>. . .
>R4->Rom Why is no one Ogging
>R2->Rom Now is a stupid time to Ogg.  Take Reg back instead.  It's Agri.
>. . .
>twenty lines of foo
>. . .
>R4->Rom You guys suck.  No one will Ogg.

Good illustration. Fortunately, I've yet to be that annoying.

>	Don't assume that a team that refuses to Ogg sucks.  A team that
>refuses to acknowledge that you asked, on the other hand. . .

True. Only one that refuses to ogg when it should. I remember a recent game
of rwd4 where I was on the Ori side against a mostly clueless Klingon team.
One klingon was bitching at his team as we took them down to LPS. He then
started bitching at us for not finishing off the Klings! :-)

>ZZnew guy

Suicide Solution
Newsgroups: rec.games.netrek
From: bathurst@noaapmel.gov (Bill Bathurst)
Subject: Re: Lag and the standard on bronco (SC bombers rule!)
Organization: NOAA/PMEL, Sand Point Way, Seattle, WA
	<1992Nov12.044606.8322@galileo.cc.rochester.edu>
	<1992Nov16.012117.26268@cs.su.oz.au>
Date: Mon, 16 Nov 1992 16:07:12 GMT


   Anyhow what I wanted to say was that there is a massive shortage of people
   willing to SC bomb or base on bronco.  

It is because SC bombing is *harsh* on your ratings.  I had high ratings
on my char on bronco until I would go SC when someone would yell, "someone
go scout bomb".  It is usually the arrogant planet scum who yells for it
but would never do it.

   There are plenty of planet scums,
   and quite a lot of oggers, but noone ever seems to bomb.  

On bronco it is the oggers and planet scum who get respect.  The good thing
about scouting is that people will think you are clued.

   I was the only
   person on my team bombing with any dedication, and noone on the other team
   was bombing at all as far as I could see!  

Your team should win then!  Perhaps if you are consist as being a SC bomber
a *few* people will appreciate you.  

						It is also hard to find people 
   willing to base (you have no idea how frustrating I find this!!), and they 
   often aren't too cluefull - some of them just die, some of them wander off 
   towards the front line for no apparent reason and then die :)  (I've seen 
   some really good bases on bronco, but they are the exception rather than 
   the rule.)

I base whenever I can.  Takes a while to get good at basing.  SC bombing is
much easier.

   Just wait till the West-Pacific Rim fibre optic cable comes in!!

This would be way cool! (:


--
Bill Bathurst				Internet:	bathurst@noaapmel.gov 
NOAA/PMEL				Phone:		(206) 526-6205

Organization: Carnegie Mellon, Pittsburgh, PA
Newsgroups: rec.games.netrek
Date: Wed, 18 Nov 1992 14:00:25 -0500 
From: "Timothy C. Worsley" <tw1r+@andrew.cmu.edu>
Subject: Re: Spell it right - AUSTRALIA (was Re: Screaming at the Sun
	<1992Nov18.044444.21079@usage.csd.unsw.OZ.AU>

Excerpts from netnews.rec.games.netrek: 18-Nov-92 Spell it right -
AUSTRALIA .. Paul W. Brooks esq.@newt (680)

> > 	What does it meant that you could kill your team-mates over the lag?  I
> > killed people in Austrailia.  This does not meant that the lag did not
> > exist.

> This isn't anything personal about this poster - I've seen it in many
> other posts as well. Its spelled Australia - there's only one 'i'.
> Get it right :)


	I really am sorry about this.  I know I spell a lot of things badly,
but I should get a country right.

Australia

ZZnew guy
Organization: Carnegie Mellon, Pittsburgh, PA
Newsgroups: rec.games.netrek
Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1992 03:14:48 -0500 
From: "Timothy C. Worsley" <tw1r+@andrew.cmu.edu>
Subject: Re: GB at LAR
	<2B0B865C.12501@ics.uci.edu>

Excerpts from netnews.rec.games.netrek: 19-Nov-92 Re: GB at LAR Tedd
Hadley@thoth.ics.uc (787)

>    No, no, no, I'm not saying lag isn't a big deal.  I'm saying that when
>    a team beats us at USC and there are no subsequent bitter complaints
>    about lag, the obvious conclusion to us, the home team, is: lag at calvin
>    - no big deal.  This is one of the points I gave to explain why the first
>    GB game was played at calvin, in refutation of the accusation that we
>    intentionally and unfairly exploited home-field advantage.


	Well, it would be embarasing to say, "We would have genocided without
the lag," or, "We would have genocided faster without the lag."  This
doesn't mean that it's not true, just that most of us aren't *that*
obnoxious.  If you win, it's pretty unsporting to complain.  If you
lose, it still makes you look bad, but not AS bad.

ZZnew guy
Newsgroups: rec.games.netrek
Subject: Rookie request (MacX)
From: morgan@arc.ab.ca (Sean Morgan)
Date: 18 Nov 92 12:46:33 MDT
Distribution: world
Organization: Alberta Research Council

I am not an X user, but have access to Suns through our office network.  I also
have MacX running on a Mac SE/30 (and a two page display).  Is there any hope
of running the client binary on the Sun but displaying it on my Mac (seats
actually at the Suns can be hard to come by, as well as inconvenient)?

Sean Morgan
From: sfd@soda.berkeley.edu (Scott Drellishak)
Newsgroups: rec.games.netrek
Subject: Re: I've got crypt.
Date: 20 Nov 1992 08:04:38 GMT
Organization: Metaphor Computer Systems
NNTP-Posting-Host: soda.berkeley.edu

In article <rob.722168568@psy.vu.nl> rob@psy.vu.nl (Rob van Leeuwen) writes:
)Hi, here I am, sitting in Amsterdam, the Netherlands, *EUROPE*,

Holy Shit!  The Netherlands is in EUROPE!?

Where did I leave those electrodes?
-- 
/--------------------------------------------------------------------------\
| Scott Drellishak   sfd@neuromancer.metaphor.com                          |
|                "Spumco ... the Danes call it quality."                   |
\--------------------------------------------------------------------------/
From: sls@aero.org (Sam Shen)
Newsgroups: rec.games.netrek
Subject: GB vs. LA riot
Date: 19 Nov 92 02:13:49 GMT
Article-I.D.: batcompu.SLS.92Nov18181349
Distribution: rec
Organization: The Aerospace Corporation
NNTP-Posting-Host: batcomputer.aero.org

I don't speak for the team, I only speak for myself.

The first game: I didn't know lag was going to be as bad as it was for
the GB players.  I knew they would have lag but I thought it would be
the kind of playable lag that I get when I play on ksu or bronco.  I
thought it would give us enough of an advantage to win by a score of
about 13-7.  As it was, the game was pretty dumb since the GB players
were obviously lagged to near-uselessness.  I did not go into the game
knowing that GB would suffer debilitating lag.

The second game: we really weren't well-prepared for this game.
LuckyLuke (our full-time SC bomber) couldn't make the game and neither
could silly@caltech, both of whom played well in the game against
TWWN.  And then we had to keep pausing the game because various GB
players were busted.  The pauses (two were quite long, maybe 5-10
mins) really destroyed our rhythm.  After the second pause we had
about 0 teamwork (no escorts, no bombing, little ogging, no space
control, arguments over whether or not to ogg the base, arguments over
whether or not to take out a base, etc).  Also we subbed out Hadley
for some stupid reason (so during the 2nd hour we were playing with
only 5 of the 8 members who played together vs. TWWN.)

I think if GB thinks we're really no good (as blojo wrote a few msgs
back) then I can see where he's coming from, but I think he's wrong.
We are capable of playing first-rate netrek (eg. the TWWN game) but
often (usually?) we don't.

	-Sam Shen (sls@aero.org)
Newsgroups: rec.games.netrek