From: cortese@skid.ps.uci.edu (Janis Maria Cortese)
Newsgroups: soc.feminism
Subject: thinking that numbers are God(tm)
Date: 21 Jan 1993 16:20:21 GMT
Organization: University of California, Irvine
Distribution: world
NNTP-Posting-Host: remarque.berkeley.edu
Originator: muffy@remarque.berkeley.edu

While it is true that numbers are valuable tools, this insistence on
some men on the net to not belive in ANYTHING unless it can be
numerically stated is really stupid.  You all remind me of carpenters
who have only one hammer and won't acknowledge the existence of anything
but nails.

To follow up someone else's quote about how women don't like it when men
use numbers because they don't like it when they aren't right -- read
Schaef's _Women's Reality_.  I realize most of you probably won't,
despite the fact that asking for hard references seems to be a major
pastime for most of you. 

In it, she discusses groupings of various people on the basis of how
they regard mathematics; in my experience I have found these groups as
she has stated them to be extremely accurate.  The first group is people
who say that they can't do math; they have a tendency to distrust
numbers and not consider them as reality.  The second group is composed
of mostly people who can calculate when they need to; in this group she
puts most social scientists, engineers, and grade school teachers among
others.  This group says that "numbers are just a tool," but in HER
experience as a therapist, they don't really believe it.  They actually
do think that numbers are some sort of objective reality, and they tend
to worship them.  The third group is some artists and musicians, as well
as hard scientists and mathematicians.  These people come full circle in
not investing numbers with any hard reality; they do not reify mere
numbers.

It is the group two people that mostly say things like, "Numers can't
lie."  "Put it in numbers."  "I'm sorry, but if you can't put it in
figures it just doesn't prove anything."  These people are the ones who
are likely to demand that anything fit their particular hammer before
they will say it's real.

75% of all people drink beer. (a typical example of a figure) 

Group one people will just have an innate distrust, and say something
like, "Figures are liars and liars figure."  Group two people might say,
"Well, it says so, so it must be true."  Group three people might say,
"How did they insure they had a random sample?  How was the data
reduced?  Was there any reason why the study was done?  How did the data
get gathered?  Was it by questionnaire or by observation?" etc.  These
people, having worked intimately with numbers and with data reduction,
KNOW all the things that happen between getting raw data in one end and
getting a statistic or NUMBER out the other.  They are on intimate
footing with the intervening steps between the two, and know also all
the things that are subject to the researcher's biases and all the things
that can go wrong that can invalidate the argument.

Face it, guys.  Numbers are hammers.  When they don't fit the bill, give
`em up and start using your right lobes for a change.  If I were to call
you all cuntsucking assholes (to use a phrase) would that not matter?
Likely it would piss you off like all hell.  Well, express your 
piss-offedness in numbers, please.  Kindly explain to me, using the
latest numerical technology and statistical analysis, just HOW you are
pissed off when I say that.  You can't?  Oh, well.  Guess it doesn't
exist, and I can just keep right on calling you all cuntsucking assholes
until doomsday since you can't PROVE to me that you are REALLY bothered
by it.  If you could only CONVINCE me that you are bothered, I'd be
happy to stop!  But, you can't put it in numbers?  Sorry.

Regards,
Janis C., who is just dripping sarcasm with this damned subject 



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