HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: goykhman_a@apollo.hp.com (Alex Goykhman)
Subject: Cold War Nostalgia
Date: Mon, 27 Jul 1992 19:04:55 GMT
Organization: Hewlett-Packard Company, Chelmsford, MA

In article <01GMQL8UYFV494ELBH@VAX1.UMKC.EDU> "talk.politics.soviet via ListServ" <TPS-L@indycms.iupui.edu> writes:
>"Dr. Strangelove, or is the Cold War Really Over?"
...
>I am not of the school "The Cold War is over, we (the U.S.) won the
>Cold War." I AM of the school that recognizes that the Cold War
>SHOULD be over, probably is over, but I do not think anyone "won." We
>expended the treasure of two generations on the arms race and the
>largest nuclear arsenal on the planet - to what end? Deterring the
>Russians? The Russians expended the treasure of two generations to do
>the same. We both lost there.
...
>The old days of 1964 total paranoia are greatly gone. What I fear
>most now is ignorance and stupidity. ...
...

    Hmm...  Twenty million people were killed/died from diseases and
    starvation during WWI, fifty million perished in WWII, and few of us
    expected WWIII to buck this horrifying trend.  Given that the casualties
    of the Cold War were in tens of thousands, it must be pretty obvious
    to any unbrainwashed observer that WE BOTH WON THE COLD WAR.

    The amount of money having been spent on the "arms race" is trivial
    compared to what would have been lost had we gotten themselves involved
    in yet another global conflict.

    Now that the Cold War is over, and the brave new world of war, genocide
    and nuclear proliferation grimly dawns upon complacent public bickering
    over the "peace dividend", it is becoming painfully clear that the Cold 
    War era was one of the most peaceful and prosperous periods in the history 
    of human kind, the real treasure of the post-WWII generations.

-- 
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Disclaimer: all opinions are mine.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Newsgroups: talk.politics.soviet
From: arto@leland.Stanford.EDU (Artavazd Khachikian)
Subject: Re: Demokratia za chuzhoi schet
Organization: DSG, Stanford University, CA 94305, USA
Date: Tue, 28 Jul 92 17:59:08 GMT

		Tak. Rebiata, davayte vse taki razberemsia.

	A. Mi ne khotim etoy diskussiyi v nashey gruppe, ni Mutlu ni armian.

	B. Mi khotim prodolzheniya etoy diskussiyi, i Mutlu i armian.

	C. Mi ne khotim diskussiyi, no Mutlu terpet' mi mozhem, a armian net.

	

	K kakomu variantu vse taki vi raspolozheni bolshe?

Esli A. to ya s vami obeyimi rukami, i svoikh poproshu prekratit` eto delo.

Esli B., to togda ya budu gotov perevesti etu diskussiyu na bolee seriozniy
uroven`, postavit' vse tochki nad i.

Esli C., togda vi uzh menia prostite, no esli Mutlu umeet demokraticheskoye
pravo rugatsa v nash adres, to pochemu vi nam otkazivaete v prave khotia bi
emu otvechat`? Esli uzh demokratiya, to togda dlia vsekh. I sledovatelno -
prostchay soc.culture.soviet. talk.politics.soviet. A vi govorite, shto
ya vas khochu vziat` v zalozhniki ? Da shto s vami, rebiata? Vi, naskolko ya
ponimayu, v etoy gruppe zalozhniki uzhe ne perviy god. Tak esli bit`
zalozhnikami Mutlu mozhno, pochemu zhe nelzia bit' zalozhnikami i Mutlu i 
ego opponentov? 

	A slovo eto mne ochen` ponravilos`. Molodets Mutlusha!
Kak vsetaki odin virodok mozhet godami trepat' nervi tisiacham obrazovannikh
intellegentov ... Kstati est` zamechatelnaya turetskaya pogovorka:
nuzhno sobrat' 70 umnikh liudey shtobi reshit' kak sniat' kamen' iz 
kolodtsa kotoriy brosil odin durak. Zamechatelno, pravda ?

						
								Arto.
From: DMITRIIZ@templevm.bitnet (Dmitrii Zelmanovich)
Newsgroups: talk.politics.soviet
Subject: Re: BALT: 2565 No Nurembergs please...
Date: 29 Jul 92 14:31:17 GMT
Reply-To: "talk.politics.soviet via ListServ" <TPS-L@indycms.iupui.edu>

I think the priority of the Baltics and the west should be relocating or
dividing the former Soviet Army. Yelthin is claiming that he does not have
enough appartments to hold this army in Russia. He should Close all military
colleges in Russia for at least five years and reduce the number of attendecies
 up to 25 to 30%. Yeltsin is waisting entire year and is not building appart-
ments in Russia. It is not easy to build new housing. The Russia and all other
new 15 countries do not have proper communications, roads, water, electricity
other utility that needed for building new homes. In my opinion, if the new co-
untries will not have a first priority to relocate the Russian Army, the new co
untries will suffer.
Newsgroups: talk.politics.soviet
From: sommar@enea.se (Erland Sommarskog)
Subject: Re: "Colonists"...
Organization: Enea Data AB
Date: Wed, 29 Jul 1992 20:15:29 GMT

I originally posted this to BALT-L where the original article
first appeared.

Juris Mazutis (CBCmazutis@dcjcon.das.net) writes:
>he should have read the conclusion of Swedish Prime Minister Karl Bildt:
>Baltic governments ARE dealing with their minorities in accordance with
>international norms.

Actually what he said according to another posting to this list was:
>we must also ask that complex issues
>of citizenship in these countries be settled according to international norms.
>Policies proposed so far in Estonia and Latvia show, in my opinion, that the
>governments of these nations understand these norms very well.

which is slighly different. I would still like to talk with him on the issue,
because I don't agree with him.

By the way, his first name is spelt "Carl", and nothing else.

>But, on the other side, is it normal that citizens cannot speak or understand
>the official language of the country they are living in? (How crude of you, Ed,
>to say "there was never any need for it in a *bilingual* Latvia".) We have no
>sympathy for colonists who have not bothered to learn Latvian in 40 years--
>their unilingual colonization, not choice, made Latvia 'bilingual' (as Latvians
>were FORCED to learn Russian)--and are still not learning it, all the while
>crying 'discrimination'. Clearly, they do not accept the loss of their
>protected colonist status. We do not accept them as 'our people'. Got that,
>Ed? Case closed.

Of course it is normal that citizens do not speak any of the official
languages, if this set is empty or poorly chosen. I don't know if Finland
has any official languages, but if they have they have two, Finnish
and Swedish. And the percentage of Swedes in Finland is lower than
the one of Russians in Latvia - already before WWII.

To gain Swedish citizenship you don't have to speak a word of Swedish.
(But I don't know if we have any official language at all.)

Colonist or not, it doesn't matter. What matters is that we were presented
a case of a man who was borned and raised in Latvia in the fifties, and
apparently have lived there for all his life. Latvia is his country as
much as it is yours. And, I dare to say, it is even more his country
than yours because he lives there today, and - judging from your mail
address - you don't.

You can call Russian immigrants whatever you want, but for many of
them Latvia is their home, and if you are denying people to have a
word on the politics in their home country, you are denying the
country full democracy.

>We should be calling for 'occupation crimes trials' along the lines of
>Nuremberg, not working up sympathy--as though nothing has happened--for the
>...

This has already been perfectly addressed by Michael Everson and
others. Let me just say that there is no future for Latvia in history.
-- 
Erland Sommarskog - ENEA Data, Stockholm - sommar@enea.se
Dabras Laiks!
Newsgroups: talk.politics.soviet
From: arto@leland.Stanford.EDU (Artavazd Khachikian)
Subject: Re: Demokratiya za chuzhoy stchet.(Was: Calm Down)
Organization: DSG, Stanford University, CA 94305, USA
Date: Fri, 24 Jul 92 18:36:15 GMT

In article <01GMPUFE8F8G009CDZ@DUCVAX.AUBURN.EDU> "talk.politics.soviet via ListServ" <TPS-L@indycms.iupui.edu> writes:


	Uvazhaemiy A. Korotkov,


	Ne dumayu, shto "fundamentalniye printsipi demokraticheskogo
obstchestva" predpolagayut sistematicheskuyu i neprerivnuyu 
vrazhdebnuyu propagandu napravlennuyu protiv moego naroda.

	Proshu obratit' vashe vnimanie na osobennost' temi,
kotoraya vibrana protivopolozhnoy storonoy dlia etoy propagandi.
Rech' idet ne o termodinamike, ne o kakikh-to abstraktnikh materiakh,
a ob istrebleniyi tselogo naroda, s posleduyustchim otritsaniyem
sovershennogo, i, bolee togo, kontr-obvineniem v ego adres.

	Naskolko mne izvestno, v russkom yazike v takom sluchaye
upotrebliaetsa slovo "kostchunstvo", eto est publichnoye glumlenie nad pamiatyu
soten tisiach zhertv. Ya schitayu kostchunstvennim i oskorbitelnim dlia
sebia besprepiatstvennoye prodolzhenie etogo. I ya ne mogu
dopustit` shtobi takogo roda publikatsiyi ezhednevno vikhodili v "efir"
dyuzhinami, vne zavisimosti ot togo, naskolko obrazovannoy yavliaetsa
dannaya auditoria. Tem bolee, shto u menia est` prichini somnevatsa
v etom.

	Ya prosil bi dannuyu visokoobrazovannuyu auditoriyu vibrat'
kakuyu-nibud` druguyu temu dlia uprazhneniya svoikh demokraticheskikh
printsipov. 

	Shto zhe kasaetsa samoy "diskussiyi", to libo vsia gruppa
izistchet sredstva dlia eyo prekrastcheniya, libo armianskaya storona budet 
vinuzhdena otvechat na publikatsiyi M. s posleduyustchim prodolzheniyem
polnoy degradatsiyi etoy gruppi.

	S uvazheniyem,


							Arto.
Newsgroups: talk.politics.soviet
From: PCHT@IBM.RZ.TU-CLAUSTHAL.DE (Hartmut Thomas)
Subject: Re: Communications in Russia
Organization: RZ TU Clausthal
Date: Tue, 21 Jul 1992 11:07:30 GMT

In article <1992Jul20.193157.26802@ulrik.uio.no>
Greg Grant <grant@asd2.jsc.nasa.gov> writes:

>Hello!
>
>Dear netters! I have a fiew questions about communications in Russia. If
>anybody can give me any information or point me to a source I'd be much
>obliged.
>
>Questions (subjects):
>
>-Is fax equipment bought for use in USA good in Russia? Will some
>additional equipment be required? What is the difference, if any?
>What about regular phones? Celular?
>
>-Is computer equipment bought for use in USA good in Russia (power
>supply, etc.)?
>
>-How does one go about getting Internet access from Russia? Usenet
>feed? What does it cost? (etc.)
>
>I apologize for being off the subject, but this is probably the most
>read group concerning Russia (I have tried SovNet-L and SUEARN-L, but
>no-one seems to read them). Thank you very much for your time.
>
>-Greg
> grant@asd2.jsc.nasa.gov
>
Dear Greg,

if you want serious answers to questions about Russia, you should direct
you mails to RUSSIA@INDYCMS.BITNET, the discussion list about Russia
and her neighbors on BITNET. There are also info-files stored on the
LISTSERV. Send 'GET RUSSIA FILELIST' to LISTSERV@INDYCMS.BITNET.
You'll find files about the communication nets in Russia (Relcom, Glasnet
IASnet) there.

The power in Russia is 220 V 50 Hz, as usual in Europe. So no American
equipement will work unless you can switch it to 220V/50Hz.
Plugs are also different:
US:             Russia:
     |  |               O   O
Russian telephone system uses pulse-dialing (America: tone-dialing), so
if you can switch the phone/telefax to that it will work.

Regards,
          Hartmut.
Newsgroups: talk.politics.soviet
Subject: Re: Novosti iz Demokraticheskoy Estonii
From: barabash@wiscon.weizmann.ac.il (Barabash Alexander)
Date: Thu, 23 Jul 1992 23:48:21 GMT
Organization: Weizmann Institute of Science, Computation Center.
Originator: barabash@wisdom.weizmann.ac.il


In article <4765@unixhub.SLAC.Stanford.EDU>, vadim@thnext.SLAC.Stanford.EDU (Vadim Kaplunovsky) writes:
|> In article <1992Jul19.162232.26039@wisipc.weizmann.ac.il>
|> barabash@wiscon.weizmann.ac.il (Barabash Alexander) writes:
|> > ............
|> >
|> > Well, they say that in Israel some years ago emigr'es' cars carried
|> > license plates of different color. Yet the emigr'es enjoyed full citi-
|> > zenship status.
|> >
|>
|> Where did you get this story from?  It might be ancient history
|> (I only got to Israel in 1977), but I think you've confused immigrants
|> with JDG (Judea, Samaria & Gaza) residents.  All civilian cars
|> registered in Israel have the same yellow color of plates, without
|> any distinction between cars owned by Jews or Arabs, new immigrants
|> or old-timers.  Even East-Jerusalem Arabs (non-citisen residents)
|> got yellow plates for their cars (although their licence Numbers
|> were easily identifiable by the police).
|> Other plate colores were used by military vehicules, police and by
|> residents of JSG (AKA Israely-occupied territories); the latter
|> were light blue with a letter indicating the city of residence.
|>
|> -- Vadim.
|> --
|> ******************************************************************
|> Vadim Kaplunovsky,		| vadim@bolvan.ph.utexas.edu
|> Assistant Professor of Physics,	| Currently posting as
|> University of Texas at Austin	| vadim@thnext.slac.stanford.edu

I meant that the cars imported duty-free, i.e. bought by immigrants, had plates
of different color. I was not here then yet :-).
Newsgroups: talk.politics.soviet
Subject: Re: Demokratiya za chuzhoy stchet.(Was: Calm Down
From: verbit@birkhoff.harvard.edu (Mikhail S. Verbitsky)
Date: 27 Jul 92 22:32:07 EDT
Organization: Dept. of Math, Harvard Univ.

In article <TPS-L%92072718010494@INDYCMS.BITNET> "talk.politics.soviet via ListServ" <TPS-L@indycms.iupui.edu> writes:
>Mikhail S. Verbitsky says:
>
>> Ya absolyutno soglasen s Artavazdom. Eto svinstvo, chto mutla
>> s bratiei pechataet po 20 statei v den' a armyanam zatykayut glotku.
>
>Kto eto zatykaet arm'anam glotku ???
>
>> zhiviohonek? Ya dumayu, potomu chto my vse (kto chitaet
>> ego der'movye stat'i i molchit) svin'i, a armyan zdes' slishkom
>> malo (i odin Arto normal'nyi).
>
>Ja soglasen, chto stat'i Mutlu oskorbl'ajut celyj narod, no zachem zhe
>oskorbl'at' vseh nas ("svin'i"), a takzhe vseh arm'an v "talk.politics.soviet",
>krome Arto ("nenormal'nye") ?

Prostite, Pavel, privychka. Naschiot nenormal'nyh armyan -
pochitaite stat'i Davidyana (ya ih ne chitayu, vprochem, 
potomu chto on u menya v kill-faile). "Armyanam zatykayut
glotku" otnosilos' k original'noi stat'e kakogo-to
muzhika, kotoraya nachnalas' so slov "nu ty Khachikyan
i urod" (ne pishi stat'i protiv mutly). Naschiot svinei -
eto samokritika :).

Misha.
Newsgroups: talk.politics.soviet,talk.politics.mideast,soc.culture.turkish,soc.rights.human
From: viznyuk@physics.ucla.edu (Sergei Viznyuk)
Newsgroups: talk.politics.soviet
Subject: Re: Demokratiya za chuzhoy stchet.(Was: Calm Down)
Date: 26 Jul 92 17:58:04 GMT
Organization: UCLA Department of Physics

In article <1992Jul25.221116.14176@husc3.harvard.edu> verbit@birkhoff.harvard.edu (Mikhail S. Verbitsky) writes:
>
>Ya absolyutno soglasen s Artavazdom. Eto svinstvo, chto mutla
>s bratiei pechataet po 20 statei v den' a armyanam zatykayut glotku.
>Eshcho bol'shee svinstvo - eto chto lyudi pechatayut stat'i
>tipa "armyane ubivali turok, turki armyan, ya soglasen, tol'ko
>otstan'te", hotya i ezhu ponyatno chto mutla fashist i chto 
>armyan ubivali, a oni - net (v razumnyh predelah). Ya uveren, chto esli
>ocherednoi natsionalist stal by pechatat' v tps stat'i pro
>to kak evrei ubivali nemtsev (latyshei, ukraintsev, russkih),
>mestnye evrei ego tut zhe by zatknuli. Pochemy zhe mutla
>zhiviohonek? Ya dumayu, potomu chto my vse (kto chitaet
 ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
 Ty ne prav, Misha. I e.g. think that Mutla is alive just because
nobody, except some Armenian idiots took him seriously
reading his endless propaganda.
Serega

>ego der'movye stat'i i molchit) svin'i, a armyan zdes' slishkom
>malo (i odin Arto normal'nyi).
>
>Misha.
From: vg@sup.stollmann.de (Volkmar Grote)
Newsgroups: talk.politics.soviet
Subject: Re: talk.politics.soviet.mutlu?
Date: 21 Jul 92 17:58:04 GMT
Organization: Stollmann GmbH, D-2000 Hamburg 50, Germany

Steve_Lammert@transarc.com writes:

>Here I was, looking for a news group where I could read about the
>political situation in the former Soviet Union today.  Instead, I have
>to wade through endless repetitive posts from Mutlu, and people
>responding to Mutlu, and Mutlu responding to people responding to Mutlu.

Thank you for describing the way I felt!
What makes it even worse, is the fact that you feel like opening volume
five of eight on page 255 of 843 with only a vague idea what it might
be about!
His case may be honourable, but his literal style is confusing.

	Volkmar
Newsgroups: talk.politics.soviet
From: craiga@csd4.csd.uwm.edu (Craig R Albrechtson)
Subject: Re: proposal to make this group moderated
Organization: Yoyodyne Peropulsion Systems 
Date: Thu, 30 Jul 1992 19:16:00 GMT

In article <EDVAX.92Jul30094443@pyrite.usenet> edvax@pyrite.SOM.CWRU.edu (Weyland Yutani Ltd) writes:
>
>
>I would like to hear your opinions on making this newsgroup moderated.
>The topics of discussions here would pertain to xUSSR/CIS issues (as
>the name of the newsgroup suggests).
>

I agree 110% percent, this group should be moderated.  When I suscribed
to this group I wanted to read a newsgroup where issues relating to 
russia would be discussed calmly and rationly in an informative mannor.

Unfortunatly this mutlu character who has absolutly no regard for any
one else on the net keeps posting his endless posts which I am sure 
keeps alot of people from reading this newsgroup.  A moderated discussion
like the one on sci.military would provide an exellent forum for discussion
of REVELANT ISSUES to USSR/CIS issues and not a dumping ground for 
mutlus endless largely irrevelent posts.   

-- 
************************************************************************
* Craig Reese Albrechtson (Slider) * University of Wisconsin Milwaukee *
* The usual meanless disclaimers apply * craiga@csd4.csd.uwm.edu       *
************************************************************************
Newsgroups: talk.politics.soviet
From: sommar@enea.se (Erland Sommarskog)
Subject: Re: Sweden: End Baltic Occupation
Organization: Enea Data AB
Date: Sat, 25 Jul 1992 17:20:35 GMT

Mikhail S. Verbitsky (verbit@brauer.harvard.edu) writes:
)	Note that I believe that this "translation" being put out
)	by well known Dambergis (a rabid nationalist and hatred-
)	breeder) *does* express Balt's views on their future.
)
))On the same day 'Frankfurter Allgemeine Zeitung' published a 21 june
))dispatch from correspondent Siegfried Thielbeer in Tallinn, entitled
))'The Baltic Struggle
)...
))Baltic radical forces speak only of liberation from these 'occupants'.
))Russification, they say, threatens to destroy their nations. And, despite all
))protestations to the contrary, their clear desire is to force the Russians to
))emigrate. This political conundrum is tied to serious social problems.
)
)       Well, Erland, when Balts themselves write about forced deportation,
)       will you call them liars? I doubt. You should apologize to Viznyuk,
)       then, he wrote just the same. Response is demanded, since you,
)       I believe, wronged Seriozha as much as he wronged you (but are
)       much more responsible :).

Why ask for apologies based on your belief that an article in
Frankfurter Allgemiene" does express the Baltic view? Does the
Siegfried Thielbeer sound like a Baltic name to you? Do you
think Frankfurt sounds like the name of a Baltic city?

The difference between Sigfirend Thielbeer and Viznyuk is she
says that there is a "clear desire", that is her interpretation
of the situation. Viznyuk are saying that forced deportations
are going on, which there are not as we know the concept of
forced deportation. (Well, it is not really true, apparently
the Tallinn police caught some persons hanging round currency
exchanges in Tallinn on the first day of the visa regulations,
but supposedly these people were not residents of Estonia.)
-- 
Erland Sommarskog - ENEA Data, Stockholm - sommar@enea.se
Dabras Laiks!
Newsgroups: talk.politics.soviet,soc.culture.turkish,talk.politics.mideast,soc.rights.human
Newsgroups: talk.politics.soviet
Subject: Re: Breakup of Czecho-Slovakia (repost from s.c.c
From: verbit@birkhoff.harvard.edu (Mikhail S. Verbitsky)
Date: 25 Jul 92 22:48:35 EDT
Organization: Dept. of Math, Harvard Univ.

In article <1992Jul25.173120.12924@enea.se> sommar@enea.se (Erland Sommarskog) writes:
>Mikhail S. Verbitsky (verbit@brauer.harvard.edu) writes:

[ deleted ]

>)       In Russia there is
>)	four regions (Nag. Karabagh, Moldova, Osetia, Abhazia)
>)	where this scenario already got into open warfare.

>Excuse me, but since when did any of these regions become part of
>Russia? (OK, North Ossetia is part of Russia, but that's not where
>the fighting is going on.)

I am sorry once more :). The term "Russia" for xSU people have lost any
meaning, and often mixed up with Soviet or xSoviet. I have
made the same mistake on this board more than once. Of course
you should read "xSoviet". 

>)	I bet Estonia and, probably, Krimea will join soon. Who else?
>)	Kazakhstan and Ukraine?
>
>Again, Russia???? I wouldn't bet on Estonia if I were you. But if
>you insist on Russia, we nice places as Chechen, Tatarstan or why
>not Daghestan? According to an article I read in Moscow News, weapons
>are really piling up there. With its 30 peoples, Daghestan would Bosnia-
>Hercegovina look like a trivial case to sort out.

I forgot Chechnya. Tataria will not fight since they
don't have any hope to secede (they are encircled by Russia).
Anyway, the breakup of Soviet empire is not a thing
to be glad about, since freed peoples tend to fight each other
like crazy. I am afraid that the similar thing could
happen in Cz.-Sl., hope I am wrong. Anyway, the tendency
to seek for an enemy in other nations which cause all
breakups of post-Communist countries is regretable.
What I tried to say in the article you criticised was
just this - Slovaks are blaming their miseries on
Czechs, and Czechs are angry on runaway Slovaks
(they are calling them national-communists).
Both are right, of course, but their attitude
is unhealthy and can cause disorder. As it does
in xYugo and xSU.

Misha.

>Erland Sommarskog - ENEA Data, Stockholm - sommar@enea.se
>Dabras Laiks!

What is D* L*?