HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: scott@sgisupport.lerc.nasa.gov (SGI_Junkie)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: MANY Guns for Sale (RARE)
Date: 31 Aug 92 17:10:07 GMT
Organization: NASA Lewis Research Center [Cleveland, Ohio]



   I have the following guns for sale: If you are not within OHIO
   you will need a friend who has an FFL. All these guns should be
   legal within your state but I make no promises.

   I will not cover FFL transfer fees for out of state purchases.
   We can negotiate shipping costs. 

   Sears, 410 Shogun, 60% to 70% Made in Brazil. about 16" Long 
   pistol grip, very nice                                      - $95
   Remington 5mm rifle, 70%, look like it was reblued/polished - $125
   Remingtom 5mm rifle, NEW IN BOX, same as above,             - $250
   US. 7.62 Rifle 1941/2 (was owned by U SAM)                  - $125
   Russian 7.62 handgun 1941 (5%) has engraved marks on grips
   and on the frame,  No serial #                              - $50
   22 Cal Survial rifle, 80%, rifle breaks down into its own
   water resistant case                                        - $125
   Full choke and Extra full chokes for Mossberg shotguns      - $10/each 
   22 cal pellets 1 brick has 12 boxes each box is $2.50 retail- $15
   (you pay shipping)
   Small cal, handgun (.38/ .308) broken trigger return        - $15
 ______________________________________________________,
 |Scott Klosterman                      (216)-433-9085 |
 |Silicon Graphics           scottk@atlas.corp.sgi.com |
 |NASA Lewis Res Ctr    scott@sgisupport.lerc.nasa.gov |
 |__               ______  ____________________________| 
    \             / (   / /     |        |_____________________________
     \   _____   /_____/ /      |        |
     /  _____   ________/       `--------' 
    /  _____   /
   /  _____   /
  /  _____   /
 |__________/
From: jd@latcs1.lat.oz.au (John Dimogotsis)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Comments on S&W-645 ?
Date: 4 Sep 92 12:57:06 GMT
Organization: Comp Sci, La Trobe Uni, Australia


	I heard that there is such a thing as a S&W 645, has anyone had
	experience with this firearm? How does it compare with modern
	popular 9mm semi-autos or .357 revolvers?
						Thanks	jd.
From: bobd@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (Bob DeBula)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: Opinions sought on Ruger Mini 14/30
Date: 28 Aug 92 15:08:06 GMT
Organization: The Ohio State University

In article <11933@optilink.UUCP> cramer@optilink.com (Clayton Cramer) writes:
#
#The SKS is about 1/4 the cost of a Mini-30, fires the same ammunition,
#and is accurate enough for any sort of home defense use.  Besides, at
#that cost, you buy two of them, and have a spare available if the
#first one is damaged.
#

Massive agreement with all of Clayton's points and the additional
point that the 7.62x39 ammunition is *dirt* cheap at present. IMHO
Clayton's advice is excellent. Buy two SKS and additionally buy a 
few thousand rounds of ammo. This ammo can be had in 1200 or
1400 round cases usually packed in sealed metal tins (complete
with "can opener"). It can be had in corrosive or non-corrosive with
non-corrosive costing just slightly more. 

I might mention that I have no intention of loading 7.62x39 anytime soon
as the ammunition is so cheap ( seven and a half cents a round
in SGN ). Just the bullet from the a major manufacturer can run more than
this without even considering the case, primer, and powder (not
to mention your effort, lube, tumbling media, wear & tear on 
equipment, etc.).

One other data point, I owned a Mini-30 when they first came out
(they may have changed) and it had the worst trigger pull of
any long arm I've ever experienced (the SKS triggers I've
experienced have all been orders of magnitude better). An
additonal data point (hopefully without getting into heavy
flamage) is that many pro-gun folks consider supporting
Bill Ruger Jr., by buying his merchandise, to be a bad idea. This 
is due to what could be interpreted as an anti-firearms stance Bill 
has taken on some issues (some folks refer to him as "Benedict" Bill).
If you want more details, I'm sure you can obtain them in
"talk.politics.guns".

The only SKS I've ever seen problems with have been the short
"carbine" or "cowboys companion" models. And I have also seen
these models which functioned reliably. My advice if you get
a carbine SKS is to make sure you can return it for exchange
or refund if it doesn't work.
-- 
==========================================================================
              Disclaimer: These are my views, not the U's

        "If it's in the paper it must be true!" --- D. Doright
From: ems@michael.apple.com (E. Michael Smith)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: Why a sawed-off shotgun?
Date: 1 Sep 92 01:54:53 GMT
Organization: Apple Computer Inc, Cupertino, CA

In article <+sqy!x#@rpi.edu> vanetten@unix.cie.rpi.edu (John S. Van Etten) writes:
#Clayton Cramer writes about short-barreled shotguns:
#
##  Such
##shotguns were used in trench warfare by U.S. soldiers, much to the
##consternation of the Germans.
#
#So I'm going to throw it out to rec.guns in general and ask if
#*anybody* has a reference to short-barreled shotguns used in the
#military.  

#The military has *never* used a "trench gun" with a short
#barrel, at least not by that name.  Is there something I've missed?  

I don't know if the 'military' has, but I know at least one Vet who
did...  His name was Terry something-or-other and we worked together
some years ago.  His favorite thing to carry in the Vietname jungle
was a double barrel 12 guage sawed off to about a 1-2 inch barrel.

He used it to clear patches of vegetation, ;-), and whatever was
in them ...

Carried in addition to his issue weapons and may have been in 
violation of something or other...

Said that at 30 feet it would knock one heck of a hole in the 'cover'
and let you get a good look at what was/used-to-be behind it ...
He liked to let both barrels go at once for best effect ...

-- 

E. Michael Smith  ems@apple.COM

'Whatever you can do, or dream you can, begin it.  Boldness has
 genius, power and magic in it.'  -  Goethe

I am not responsible nor is anyone else.  Everything is disclaimed.
From: btree!hale@UCSD.EDU (Bob Hale)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: Why a sawed-off shotgun?
Date: 26 Aug 92 21:43:13 GMT
Organization: Brooktree Corporation, San Diego

In article <5871@transfer.stratus.com> tarl@lectroid.sw.stratus.com (Tarl Neustaedter) writes:
[ discussion concerning short-barreled shotguns deleted ]

#Interestingly enough, this is the only provision of the GCA or NFA that I
#know to have made it to the supreme court; The supreme court upheld the NFA
#in ruling that short-barelled shotguns were not normal militia equipment.

In this case the Supreme Court dodged the issue; they stated that it
was not within judicial notice that short-barreled shotguns were
useful to the military.  This means that no one had presented evidence
that they were useful, it doesn't mean that the military didn't use
them.
From: cscc1f@menudo.uh.edu (Gregory W Hayes)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: S&W J Frames
Date: 31 Aug 92 12:56:20 GMT
Organization: University of Houston

While on the discussion of J frames and hammer bobbing, I've been
thinking about getting a 940.  Has anyone bead blasted one or has any
recommendations on (parkerizing excepted) dulling the finish?  I'd love
to own a stainless, but its just too shiny.

Also, to bring this up one more time, but in 9mm, will they handle
occasional uses of +P or +P+ (real ratings, not "Well, but...")?  For
carry use, I'd like to have speed loaders with Corbon or some similar
hiperf just in case.

After reading about CA's laws, the idea of getting a Firestar in .40
pretty much got canned.  The condition 4 carry w/ speed loaders sounds
like the best plan.  I plan on doing some travelling on the scoot in a
bit...

Thanks,

Greg Hayes
From: hollombe@polymath.tti.com (The Polymath)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: Beretta 92 problems
Date: 28 Aug 92 20:34:45 GMT
Organization: The Cat Factory

In article <9208261621.AA00704@nuc.Utah.univel.COM> Thi_Huynh@univel.COM (Thi Huynh) writes:

}It's hard to comment on range rental guns since any person can rent
}them and shoot his/her own "newly developed super hot" reloads.
}If I were to experiment with +P+ or hotter reloads, I would rather
}rent a gun to try it out first if I can find a range which rents
}guns.

No range I've been to will allow this.  For insurance reasons they
all require you to use only their reloads in their rental guns.

The Polymath (aka: Jerry Hollombe, M.A., CDP, aka: hollombe@polymath.tti.com)
Head Robot Wrangler at Citicorp                   Turn the rascals out!
3100 Ocean Park Blvd.   (310) 450-9111, x2483     No incumbents in '92!
Santa Monica, CA  90405
From: wwarf@silver.ucs.indiana.edu (Wayne J. Warf)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: Latin 101 (was Re: Beginner's question about caliber)
Date: 30 Aug 92 14:09:30 GMT
Organization: Indiana University

In article <1992Aug17.192502.3599@ttinews.tti.com> reid@metis.tti.com (Reid Kneeland) writes:
#In article <16d0e1INN1ie@agate.berkeley.edu> fcrary%ocf.Berkeley.EDU@ucbvax.Berkeley.EDU (Frank Crary) writes:
#
##Generally, they don't mean much more than brand names: Long Rifle, "For War"
##(Latin, Para Bellum), etc.
#
#This may get moderated out, but it's one of my pet peeves, so I'm
#taking it out for a walk.  "Para bellum" means "prepare [for] war".
#("For war" would be "pro bello".)  It comes from the writings of a
#Roman whose name escapes me (it wasn't J. Caesar, as you might expect)
#who said, "to ensure peace, prepare for war".

A Roman general, Legetius, said "Si vi pacem, para bellum"

-- 
 +--------------------------------------------------------------------+
 | Wayne J. Warf -- WWARF@ucs.indiana.edu -- I speak for myself only  |
 |"Government is like fire, a dangerous servant and a fearful master" |
 +--------------------------------------------------------------------+
From: C08926RC@WUVMD.Wustl.Edu (Rob)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: RE: SKS 30 Round Magazines...
Date: 29 Aug 92 23:41:09 GMT
Article-I.D.: mimsy.9208291426.AA12143


#Could someone tell me, for sure, if 30 round magazines installed on SKS
#rifles are legal or not?  We have been discussing this at work and the

The BATF says it is a violation to install a detachable magazine or
a folding stock (and perhaps a few other items) on an SKS rifle that
was imported after Nov. 1990 (I believe 11/20/90 to be exact).  You can
modify ones legally that were imported before that.

There are SKSes available that were imported with detachable magazines;
SOG is currently selling a version that takes AK-47 magazines.

Also note that they are now selling 30 round fixed magazines.  They
appear to be identical to the detachables, except for the info sheet
that comes with them.

The 'quick-detachable' magazine actually isn't very quick to detach.
You must hold the bolt back while pulling the mag out - not as easy
as it sounds.  This leads me to another point: the standard 10 round
magazine can be removed the same way without taking apart the rifle.
So technically, all SKSes have detachable magazines.

Anyway, with that said, this BATF ruling would be difficult, if not
impossible, to enforce.

Rob
From: fcrary%ocf.Berkeley.EDU@ucbvax.Berkeley.EDU (Frank Crary)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: Should my first handgun be a .22? (Too wimpy for defense?)
Date: 28 Aug 92 01:20:56 GMT
Organization: U.C. Berkeley Open Computing Facility

In article <1992Aug26.225234.10224@ke4zv.uucp> ke4zv!gary@gatech.edu (Gary Coffman) writes:
#...Mostly these were domestic hogs that had escaped to
#the wild, but there were a few European wild boars that some
#thoughtful sportsman had imported and set free. 

Are you sure they were imported? A friend, who hunts hug/boar in California
told me once that living in the wild, a pig will go feral (revert back to
it's undomesticated ancester, the boar) within 5 generations. That's one
reason people there are happy to allow pig hunting on their land.

#I was carrying my 12 gauge Remington Mod 11 loaded with 5 rounds 
#of 00 buck and commenced fire. As the range closed rapidly from
#an initial 10 yards, I could see dust fly from the hide of the
#hog with each solid hit. 

Where you hit it also matters _alot_. They apparently have a ridge of bone
and grissle over the back of their neck/head My friend once shot a pig,
which on close examination, had several old .357 bullets lodged there.

						     Frank Crary
						     CU Boulder
						     (Even though I'm
						     still using my
						     Berkeley account...)
From: minh@inst-sun1.jpl.nasa.gov (Minh Lang)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: IHMSA (Silhouette shooting) address wanted!
Date: 31 Aug 92 17:10:33 GMT
Organization: Jet Propulsion Laboratory

Hi, I'm looking for the address of IHMSA (International Metallic
Silhouette Association)
and also the membership due. I would appreciate any info. Thanks.
BTW, are there any silhouette shooters here? 

+------------------------------------------------------------+
 Minh Lang, Software Engineer  - Jet Propulsion Laboratory
 Instrumentation Systems Group - Instrumentation section 375
 Note:  My employer has nothing to do with what I said here...
+------------------------------------------------------------+
From: n9020351@henson.cc.wwu.edu (James Douglas Del-Vecchio)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: Why a sawed-off shotgun?
Date: 4 Sep 92 12:57:11 GMT
Organization: Western Washington University

ems@michael.apple.com (E. Michael Smith) writes:

#In article <1992Sep1.161520.18710@henson.cc.wwu.edu> n9020351@henson.cc.wwu.edu (James Douglas Del-Vecchio) writes:
##ems@michael.apple.com (E. Michael Smith) writes:
##
###I don't know if the 'military' has, but I know at least one Vet who
###did...  His name was Terry something-or-other and we worked together
###some years ago.  His favorite thing to carry in the Vietname jungle
###was a double barrel 12 guage sawed off to about a 1-2 inch barrel.
##
##You mean 12 inch barrel?  A 2 inch would look mighty funny with the
##tips of the shells sticking out!	(^8.

#No, I mean a one to two inch barrel.  That is, one to two inches past
#the END OF THE CHAMBER...  


So that would make it a 4.75" barrel.  Still very short.
What kind of vel would that be:  400 fps instead of 1200?
I believe someone posted here that when he cut a 12 ga down 
too far the pellets wouldn't even penetrate sheet metal.

I doubt it would be good for much.

I don't know what the useful lower limit would be for a cut down
12 ga.  I would guess about 10 inches or so.

I'd be interested in reading anybody's experiments with it.

Jim Del Vecchio
From: n9020351@henson.cc.wwu.edu (James Douglas Del-Vecchio)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: Has Anyone Dealt With Intratec?????
Date: 28 Aug 92 20:34:16 GMT
Organization: Western Washington University

jyoung@Cadence.COM (John Young) writes:

#I was wondering if anyone has dealt with Intratec Firearms???

#I bought a .22 hand(type)gun.A friend and I were out shooting
#(rapidly)and after a few hundred rounds,the firing pin broke.
#I wrote Intertec and explained that I had recently bought it
#and the pin broke.
#I never even got an "eat me" letter in return!!!

#1)Has this type of thing happend to anyone else?
#2)Can someone recomend a smith that could fix/make(a)firing pin??

1) Don't let anyone else mess with it or you may release Intratec
from their obligation.   Call them at 305-xxx-xxxx in Miama
and say you want it replaced.  (Zinc guns don't get repaired, 
they get replaced)  

2)  At Intertec, they make their living selling junk, but any
decent junk dealer (even Bryco!), will replace one of their
junk items to satisfy a customers.

This is the zinc pocket .22, or their pig plastic junker .22?
The zinc things have been advertized for a year, but I have
yet to see one.


Jim Del Vecchio
From: edhresko@hresko.EOS.NCSU.EDU (ERIC DAVID HRESKO)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: identifying ammo
Date: 26 Aug 92 21:43:45 GMT
Organization: Techno-Geeks Inc.



|>I have a couple of cartridges I would like to identify:
|>
|>1. 9mm Luger:  The bottom of the case says 'WCC', '90', and contains
|>a circle with a '+' in it.  Any idea who makes this?

	The WCC stands for Winchester Cartridge Company, the 90 stands for
1990 manufacture, and the symbol is the symbol for NATO issue ammo.
	
|>2. 7.62mm NATO: the bottom says 'IVI' (Imperial perhaps?), '81', and
|>also contains a circle with a '+' in it.  Would this have corrosive
|>primer in it?
|>My suspicion is Canadian military ammo, but I would like to verify
|>this.

	Don't know the actual manufacturer, but IVI is definitely Canadian
ammo.

	Eric
-- 


Eric

******************************************************************************
Eric Hresko		* Mail:  edhresko@eos.ncsu.edu                       * 
Kanki House of Steaks   * Voice: (why would you want to call?) 1-919-821-5168*
Dishwasher 2nd Class    * HK Rules!!! (But a FAL will do in a pinch)         *
DISCLAIMER:  I don't wear sandals, eat granola, or tiptoe thru the Tulips    *
******************************************************************************
From: n9020351@henson.cc.wwu.edu (James Douglas Del-Vecchio)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: Taurus .44 Special vs. Charter Bulldog Snub
Date: 29 Aug 92 23:41:12 GMT
Article-I.D.: henson.1992Aug29.154813.198
Organization: Western Washington University


I was at a "Shooting Fair" in Puyallup Wa, yesterday, which for
you poor souls who don't have such things in your area is where
a buch of mfgrs reps and dealers bring lots of guns for the buying
public to shoot.   Everybody was there: Glock, Mossberg, Colt, 
S&W, Ruger, Interarms, Taurus, TC, and lots of others. 

Anyway, I got to fire, among a zillion other things, a Taurus .44
Spec "compact" with the 3" barrel.  It was a hand filler, but I
liked it, and my girlfriend liked it more than the SP101 .38, Centennial
.38 and S&W Chiefs Special she tried.  She thought the .38s kicked
more than the .44 too (especialy the SP for some reason), undoubtedly 
because of the smaller grips and lighter weight.

I also handled, but didn't shoot, the Charter Arms Bulldog Snub, which
was lighter than any of the .38s I compared it to (Taurus 85, S&W Cent.)
Charter is back in production as a basement enterprise at about 25 guns 
a day and 15 employees total, according to the dealer.   The Bulldog was
great.  That was the only thing that really stuck in my mind that day.
I was planning to get the 85CH Taurus .38, but not after the Bulldog, which
is lighter and has a "bobbed but cockable" trigger.  There is no spur 
on the trigger, just a little nub near the top to cock it with.  Otherwise
it is like a 85CH.   It is functionaly like a bodygaurd, but no ugly hump.
After seeing this, I realized that there is no reason to have the standard
obtrusive hammerspur on a revolver, when this kind is so much better.

The stocks are wood, but I would replace them with pachmyres, like the
one I fired another time.  Recoil was nothing (to me) with factory loads.

The barrel is 2.5" and shrouded, nicer looking than the bare one of before,
imo.  The finish is a very nice polished blue.   I prefer stainless, but
the guy said that with Charter as small as it is, you take what they have
at the time, or you have to wait.

	He was selling them for $219, but the dealer price is lower.  
Stainless is about $30 more (when available).

I realized, as I was inspecting the Bulldog, that I am not going to
be buying a .38 revolver.

Jim Del Vecchio
From: bressler@iftccu.ca.boeing.com (Rick Bressler)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: Taurus 3-way safety (was Re: .40 s&w questions)
Date: 2 Sep 92 19:04:49 GMT
Organization: Boeing Commercial Airplane Group


/ iftccu:rec.guns / jca@crash.cts.com /  7:09 am  Aug 30, 1992 /
###Rule #1 for gunfighting: Bring a gun.
##
##Quite true.  But does anybody know rule #1 for KNIFE fighting?
##
##Bring a gun!   :-)
#
#No, keep the perpetraitor at least 7 yards away from you so you can
#ready your gun.  A gun is ineffective at distances less than 7 yards if
#the gun is holstered.

This brings up a very good point.  Many of the well known gun fighters* 
point out that the best way to win a gun fight, (assuming you can't escape)
is to have a gun in your hand BEFORE the fighting starts.  This 
probably applies equally to knives.

Rick.
From: voodoo!tomm@bcstec.ca.boeing.com (Tom Mackey)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Washington state handgun hunting
Date: 28 Aug 92 20:34:28 GMT
Organization: Boeing Graphics project, Bellevue WA



I got curious about handgun hunting so I checked the 92/93 Washington State
hunting rules pamplet.  From page 8 I quote:

    "HANDGUNS - For deer, bear, or cougar hunting, centerfire handguns
    approved for hunting purposes must be a minimum of .24 caliber, have
    a minimum barrel length of four (4) inches, usa a mushrooming or
    expanding-type bullet, and generate a minimum of 500 foot pounds of
    energy at 100 yards.

    For other big game animals, centerfire handguns approved for hunting
    purposes must be a minimum of .24 caliber, have a minimum barrel
    length of four (4) inches, usa a mushrooming or expanding-type bullet,
    and generate a minimum of 750 foot pounds of energy at 100 yards.

    A .357 magnum revolver, 9mm autoloader, or .45 ACP do not meet these
    energy standards and are not legal for big game hunting."

It goes on to say that more info is available at Dept. of Wildlife regional
offices, which I have not had time to visit yet.  Until then, do any of
you have figures available for what handgun cartridges do meet the 500
ft. lb. at 100 yds. requirement?  I am interested in revolvers or autos
only, not the bolt action handguns.

After reading the reviews of Winchester's Black Talon loads, it seems to
me that the .357 magnum would do just fine.  Don't you just love inflexible
rules...  I'd *really* like to use my favorite Colt Trooper in .357 mag.
for hunting instead of having to buy another handgun!

    (I know, I can hear him now -- the moderator is saying "So what's
    the problem?"  %^)
-- 
Tom Mackey       (206) 865-6575        tomm@voodoo.boeing.com
Boeing Computer Services         ....uunet!bcstec!voodoo!tomm
M/S 7K-20,     P.O. Box 24346,     Seattle, WA     98124-0346
From: bressler@iftccu.ca.boeing.com (Rick Bressler)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: CA gun laws -- in cars (waS Re: Travelling help)
Date: 2 Sep 92 19:04:47 GMT
Organization: Boeing Commercial Airplane Group


/ iftccu:rec.guns / hollombe@polymath.tti.com (The Polymath) /  3:02 pm  Aug 31, 1992 /
#I read it a couple of weeks ago.  I was struck by Ayoob's willingness to
#enter situations I'd avoid -- possibly because he was armed.  He tells of
#one incident where he noticed a suspicious character hanging around a
#sub-freezing parking lot at night.  I'd have gone back to the hotel and
#gotten an escort, at least.  He kept going and walked into a trap that
#forced him to pull his gun.

He's a real 'macho' sort of guy.  He's also got at least one black belt 
plus lots of practical experience in such situations.  He still has a 
police commission I believe.  Given this, (and I've heard some of these 
stories first hand from him) 

1) He may feel, (like many other cops) that he is never 'off duty.'

2) He may have been driven by his gonads, rather than his head.

3) He may have felt competent to handle the situation, and figured that 
it was 'better him than some other poor defenseless bastard.'

4) He may have already been close enough to the person that he didn't want 
to turn his back.

I've only spent a couple of days with the man, but I would bet on 
some combination of all of the above.  I don't think he's stupid enough
to put himself into a poor tactical position on purpose, so I'd 
probably order the above, in order of importance, 4,1,3,2.

Just my opinion.

Rick.