HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: CS341A035@husky1.stmarys.ca ("Brynjolfr Myrkjartanarson, founder of the Compaignie Mercurie")
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Nationalism in period
Date: 9 Apr 92 16:20:00 GMT
Organization: The Internet

Fujimoto writes:
>
> [ ... discussion of French infighting deleted ... ]
>
>This opens the following container of annelids: "What constitutes a
>nation?"  A person from what we now call Germany would, in period, not
>think of himself as German, but as a Frankfurter, Hamburger, Munster,
>etc.  (Okay, so I wrote this around lunch) A person from France would
>not think of himself as French, but think of himself as a Norman, a
>Burgundian, etc.  
>
>The only Western European countries whose inhabitants would think of
>themselves nationally (and this didn't happen until very late period)
>were probably the Spanish, the English and the Dutch.  (I can't speak
>too much about Eastern Europe, since I've only recently begun to study
>the area, although I think Poland was, during period, a fairly
>powerful state and its decline occurred only during the 17th and 18th
>century)  

Well, there is another group of period nationalists... the Scandinavians
had definite national boundaries in period; by the end of the 10th century,
Icelanders were thinking of themselves as being part of Iceland, and within
a few hundred years, even Sweden was reasonably united...

>In line with the persona debate, I suppose it bothers me marginally
>(well, to be honest, I don't really care but I want to sound
>erudite....;-) that someone can say, with a straight face, "Well, I'm
>a 12th century German from Augsburg who..."

Yeah, I know. I ignore it when people say that, on the justification that
"Brynjolfr's from the 10th century. He doesn't know any better; who knows,
maybe those warring German tribes finally managed to unite 200 years
later..." (If Norway can do it, anyone can ;-)

>Fujimoto

-Brynjolfr Myrkjartanarson, Compaignie Mercurie, Seashire, Ruantallan, East

      The unwise man thinks he will live for ever if he shuns fight, but
      Old age gives him no peace though spears may shun him. - The Havamal

        The Net: cs341a035@husky1.stmarys.ca, cs341a035@stmarys.bitnet
From: cozzlab@garnet.berkeley.edu
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: Marion Zimmer Bradley
Date: 8 Apr 92 15:56:12 GMT
Article-I.D.: agate.rv52sINNk1c
Organization: University of California, Berkeley
NNTP-Posting-Host: garnet.berkeley.edu

In article <702734416.F00002@blkcat.UUCP> Dave.Aronson@f120.n109.z1.fidonet.org (Dave Aronson) writes:
>
> > to hold the second tourney in (June 21, 1996--the first one I went to).
>                                             ^^
> Gee, and here I thought you'd been around a while.  ....

Awk.  Yes, it was 1966, sorry about that.

> > si non e vero, e ben trovato.

"If it isn't true, it's still a good story."  (Supposedly said by some
monk about some purported miracle.)

Dorothea of Caer-Myrddin                               Dorothy J. Heydt
Mists/Mists/West                                              Albany CA
Disclaimer: This is the Cozzarelli Lab's account, not mine--but I don't
think anybody else ever reads it.
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: Why Call Light Blows?
From: vnend@nudity.UUCP (David W. James)
Date: Sun, 12 Apr 92 19:03:32 -0500
X-Mailer: Fernmail 1.1

In message <703051265.F00002@blkcat.UUCP>, Robert Fitzmorgan writes:
RF> I have heard that Anstaeorrans are percived to hit harder than
RF> people from other kingdoms.

That is *very* odd, though I supposed that at this point my experience
with differences between other kingdoms and Ansteorra is very out of
date.  The first few times I fought someone from outside of Ansteorra I
was a little shocked at how hard some of them hint (mostly Midrealmers.)
I have also heard (here in the East) people comment about visiting down
there and how they didn't swing as hard.

RF> Could we here from some people who have fought extensivly in Two or
RF> more kingdoms? ARE there regional differences in how blows are
RF> called?

"Extensive" is too strong a word to use at this point, but I have fought
in a few different kingdoms (and against folks from more of them) and I
would have to answer that, yes, there is a difference from region to
region.

Does anyone out there have Lord Peter van Dorn's  (at least I think that
was his name...) study on blow strength?  Did it include a breakdown of
the averages by region, or did he just give overall information?
Meanwhile, I shut up and let people who are traveling (and fighting)
more comment.

Kwellend-Njal
---
                       {backbone}!princeton!nudity!vnend
     "Te audire non possum.  Musa sapientum fixa est in aure."
From: Tim@f4229.n124.z1.fidonet.org (Tim)
Sender: FredGate@ocitor.fidonet
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: Bertram's Membership Letter
Date: Tue, 07 Apr 1992 08:38:41

 RR> We now have quite a few overseas members/organizations. Are *any* of
 RR> the BoD required to represent these folk, much less be from the
 RR> general localities in question?

Are you under the misapprehension that the BoD is, or is intended to be,
 some kind of representative body?

 * Origin: Herald's Point * Steppes/Ansteorra * 214-699-0057 (1:124/4229)
From: Tom.Jeffrey@f2118.n124.z1.fidonet.org (Tom Jeffrey)
Sender: FredGate@ocitor.fidonet
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: RE:  MSGID: 1:124/2206.0 dcfa8efa
Date: Sun, 12 Apr 1992 00:04:59

>Speaking of Gealic, does anyone have any suggestions for someone
>interestting in learning the language on their own?  I've done only a
>minimal amount of research on the subject so far, but alas, I've
>turned up nothing.

In a message to Help in Gaelic sought written on Saturday, April 11, 1992 at
12:02:06 PM, All, becca Roolf writes:

AbR>Well, there are places in the states that you can learn Irish.  In
AbR>Pittsburgh, which is a fairly Irish city, there are four active teachers
AbR>who offer beginning through advanced classes at the local community
AbR>colleges, at University of Pittsburgh and at the Irish Center.  You
AbR>might want to check your local community colleges for non-credit courses
AbR>in the language -- that's usually where Irish is to be found, not at a
AbR>credit university.

This is s question I have often wondered about. Why do people assume that
Gealic or Celtic automaticlly means 'Irish'?? If I'm not completely off base,
didn't both the Gaels and the Celts occupy rather substantial portions of
Europe? Not, just the British Isles, but also France, Spain, Italy, Germany,
etc...

>>>>------------> Lord Ivon of Darkforest <------------<<<<

 * Origin: >>Darkforest-Hall-> V32bis <-214-361-8541-<<  (1:124/2118)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
From: lawbkwn@buacca.BITNET (Yaakov HaMizrachi)
Subject: Magic in the Middle Ages
Organization: The Internet
Date: Tue, 14 Apr 1992 20:11:37 GMT

Greetings, good gentles, from
Yaakov HaMizrachi.  May the rock of
our salvation fall on the head of tax
collectors everywhere and squish them into
the shape of a pita bread.

Gerald askes about magic in the
Middle Ages.  Speaking from Rabbinic
sources, 'magicians' (a professional
class of people who publically advertised
as performing nifty things like putting
curses on your enemies) seem to have existed
in pre-Islamic Persia.  The Rabbis forbid
trade with them, and there are various
anecdotes regarding conversations held
with them, or various means used to overcome
them. (I should note, at this point, that how
much of these reports was meant to be taken
seriously, how much was metaphorical, and how
much was satire for the purposes of showing
people how ridiculous these beliefs are is
a subject of great debate.)  There was also
clearly a brisk trade in magical charms,
amulets, and incantations.  The Rabbis were
so concerned over Jews going to Pagan priests
for magic items that they instituted the custom
of sayin sh'ma before going to sleep as
a means of protecting one against demons or
hostile magic.
In peroid, the market in 'kosher' magic
charms persisted.  Maimonides takes the
Rabbis of Persia, most particularly the
Exilarc, to task for profiting from this
market.  He calls belief in magic and mystic
charms 'foolishness', superstiton, and other
non-complimentary names.  Other rabbis,
equally respected, attribute great mystic
power to various practices or the blessings
of righteous men.
Astrology was another hotly debated question.
The talmud questions whether it is one of
the 'divinings' forbiden in the Torah.
On the other hand, some Rabbis developed a
complex system of Jewish astrology, different
in a number of ways from non-Jewish astrology.
(Someday I'll have time to really research this,
sigh.)  Some astrologers, such as Maimonides,
declared astrology to be nonesense.  Others
practiced it, often for Christian patrons.
(Anyone from out of town is an expert.  Anyone
from another religion has more 'mystic' power
than yours.)
In Service,
Yaakov HaMizrachi
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
From: lawbkwn@buacca.BITNET (Yaakov HaMizrachi)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Spanish law in CA?
Date: 7 Apr 92 21:23:07 GMT
Organization: The Internet

Unto all good gentles who frequent this
place, greetings from Yaakov.
M'lord Sam'l, I could you please end me
some of the documentation on the use of
Spanish law in CA?  I am, to say the least,
quite surprised.  I would expect that the Constitutional
requirement of due process mandated a common
law system like everyone else.
PErhaps this is in the area of local custom or
municipal regulation?
Given how much of CA law ends up as precident
for other courts, I should be really surprised
that its base differs so markedly from the
rest of the country.
In Service,
Yaakov
From: brandon@husc10.harvard.edu (joshua 'yaz' brandon)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: Ownership of England
Date: 8 Apr 92 16:01:26 GMT
Organization: Harvard University Science Center

Many thanks to Lord Hossein for his historical notes on the feudal status
of England.

One apology *I* would like to make:

>And, again, from Moreach:
>"I vote to move this to the Rialto, too. It's a shame to keep some of
>these general discussions to ourselves. Besides, stuff like this
>might help shut down the 25 threads on "killing from behind"... ;->"

I was considering editing this comment out to avoid offending anyone, but I
finally decided that people would take it as the joke that was intended
(note the smiley, everybody!).  

My apologies to Moreach for any flamage this may cause, and to anyone who
may have felt offended.  I didn't mean it --- honest!  :)

Para servir a ustedes,

	Simon Santiago de Cordoba		Joshua Brandon
	Duncharloch, Carolingia, EK		brandon@husc.harvard.edu
YAZ/mycroft
From: dlc@hpfcso.FC.HP.COM (Dennis Clark)
Date: Fri, 10 Apr 1992 14:57:41 GMT
Subject: Re: Travel,Persona
Organization: Hewlett-Packard, Fort Collins, CO, USA
From: mcochran@isis.cs.du.edu (Mark A. Cochran)
Subject: Re: Wars of conquest-No!
Organization: Um, er, I *know* I saw it here a few days ago...
Date: Mon, 6 Apr 92 02:39:48 GMT

In article <702192509.F00001@ocitor.fidonet> Ruth.Woodring@f4229.n124.z1.fidonet.org (Ruth Woodring) writes:
>Hmmn... does this mean that when Ansteorra and Trimaris meet in Meridies for Gulf War 1 this Spring that winner gets both the conquered kingdom AND Meridies?  ... but I thought we broke away from Atenveldt 20 years ago --- do we want to put it back together????   (Perish the thought - I travel far enough just in Texas and Oklahoma!)
>-- Vashti of the Flaming Tresses, Central Regional Seneschal for Ansteorra, 
>Barony of the Steppes (Dallas, TX)
>
No Vashti, but it means that next time the Stepps goes to war over
its mustaches, it can keep any it finds laying on the ground in
either barony...


--
	Mark Cochran 		Lord Edward Tremaine
	merlin@eddie.ee.vt.edu	Aarquelle, Outlands
"It's easy. Just hold the dull part and hit him with the sharp part."
	- Don Alaric Greythorne of Glen Mor talking to a new fighter
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
From: whheydt@pbhya.PacBell.COM (Wilson Heydt)
Subject: Re: Magick
Reply-To: whheydt@PacBell.COM (Wilson Heydt)
Organization: Pacific * Bell, San Ramon, CA
Date: Mon, 13 Apr 1992 22:53:30 GMT

In article <Gerald_Del_Campo.0035@sorinc.UUCP> Gerald_Del_Campo@sorinc.UUCP (Gerald Del Campo) writes:
>It seems that much magick is mixed in with the Midieval period.  Has anyone
>ever adopted the persona of a magician in the SCA?

You don't want to know . . .  Isaac the Unlikely is the reason for a
great deal of distaste for claims of magic.

	--Hal

        Hal Ravn, Province of the Mists, West Kingdom
        Wilson H. Heydt, Jr.,  Albany, CA 94706,  510/524-8321 (home)
-- 
=======================================================================
Hal Heydt                    |    Vegetarians eat vegetables.
Analyst, Pacific*Bell        |      
510-823-5447                 |    I'm a Humanitarian.
From: dmb@lyapunov.ucsd.edu (Doug Brownell)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: Mundane Interactions
Date: 13 Apr 92 18:59:21 GMT
Article-I.D.: network.sclm9INNq5i
Organization: University of California, San Diego
NNTP-Posting-Host: lyapunov.ucsd.edu

Greetings, friends of the Rialto, from Thomas Brownwell in Calafia


Bertram of Bearington wrote:
: "No, we're in a play..."
: 
:   Part of the delight of such stories is how they seem to be regenerated
: in each new SCA generation.  I heard such a tale as a newcomer back in
: A.S. XI and I'm sure something similar happened in the dim and distant
: "Mists" of time that served as a model for those that would come after.
: 

The same thing happened to my Lady and our friend Joshua ibn
Eleazar ha Shalib.  We were returning from a Drama Guild
practice in preparation for a play we were doing at a revel, and
were approached by a young lad (age 10?) who asked if we were
going to an SCA event, to which we immediately replied, "No, we
are in a play."  Of course we promptly admitted our guilt in
being stalwart SCA members, but it *was* fun!

Thomas
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
From: smelvin@sdcc13.ucsd.edu (The Black Bard  )
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Words to a song
Date: 6 Apr 92 20:30:35 GMT
Organization: University of California, San Diego

Greetings fair Gentles of the Rialto,
	The Public has spoken! (And very loudly I might add.)  At
the recent crown tourney in Caid, the Hosting Barony Starkhafn
(Wonderful people, with wondrous hospitality!) informed me that I
was to find the words to this song come Hell or High Water.  I
thought that perhaps the collective knowledge of this group could
help.  The song is called "And Squire I miss you" is to the tune of
"Honey" and one of the lines is:
	And Squire I miss you, you worked like a slave...
Any Help would be most appreciated.
			Rathflaed DeToutNoir
			The Black Bard of Meridies
			mka :Stephen R Melvin
	
-- 
Rathflaed DeTunin               Bards make the best lays!!   
The Black Bard of Meridie          -Me 
mka: Stephen R Melvin
From: branwen@cerebus.ccc.amdahl.com (Karen Williams)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: Llewelyn
Date: 17 Apr 92 18:32:00 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: Amdahl Corporation, Sunnyvale CA

In article <1992Apr17.113843.11215@husc3.harvard.edu> bryant@husc8.harvard.edu (Katherine 'Kabeta' Bryant) writes:

>I have occasionally seen
>it spelled "Llewellyn," in which case presumably it would be "thle-WETHL-in,"
>more or less.

The problem I have with the spelling "Llewellyn," all facetiousness aside,
is that it's impossible to pronounce. You try saying "wethl" out loud (with 
the proper Welsh breathiness in the "thl"). Pretty hard, huh? Now had the 
"thle" in front of it and the "in" behind it. I can't imagine Angharad the
housewife calling little "thle-WETHL-in" to come in to dinner.

Branwen ferch Emrys
The Mists, the West

--
                                          Karen Williams
                                          branwen@cerebus.ras.amdahl.com
"Don't whine. Warrior women speak in a husky whisper."
  -- Brat Pack #3
From: bryant@husc8.harvard.edu (Katherine 'Kabeta' Bryant)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Welsh pronunciation (or lack thereof)
Date: 16 Apr 92 15:52:50 GMT
Article-I.D.: husc3.1992Apr16.115253.11161
Organization: Harvard University Science Center

Unto the gentles, pronounceable and otherwise, of the Rialto does Gwenllian
the unpronounceable send greetings!

Good Bjalfi, you have outdone yourself this time.  I fear that someone is
going to have to explain to me how to pronounce my "new" name; doubled vowels
are simply an alien concept!

Moreach mentions the character of Llewelyn in Shakespeare's Henry V.  I 
discovered once while reading the play that Shakespeare actually named the
character Fluellen, which is about as close as the Saes could be expected to
come to Llewelyn.

For those who are curious:

ll -- as Moreach said, sort of like "thl."  Put your tongue against the back
      of your top teeth and breathe out over the sides.

dd -- voiced "th," as in "this"

w -- "oo"

y -- either the schwa ("uh") or "ih" (as in "in"), depending

u -- um, this one's hard to describe.  Not quite "ee" but not "ih" either --
     somewhere in between.

i -- "ee", more or less.

o -- standard

a -- standard, as in "father"

e -- standard, more or less "eh" as in "when"

ch -- as in German "ich" or Scottish "loch"

rh -- aspirated r, sort of as if it were "hr"


--- Gwenllian ferch Madog Llangollen                       *
    Borough Duncharloch, Carolingia                  * gobeithio *
    Katherine Bryant, bryant@husc.harvard.edu              *
From: tac6189@hertz.njit.edu (Tom Carmichael)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: rSCA in fiction - need help
Date: 13 Apr 92 16:40:02 GMT
Organization: New Jersey Institute of Technology, Newark, N.J.

In article <9204130130.AA27910@isi.com> kevin%athens.dnet@isi.COM (No Sparrow Shall Fall) writes:
>Geoffrey de la Iglesia notes:
>
>> I am compiling a list of SCA references in fiction.  So far, 
>> the only books I know of are the following:
>
>Cloak of Anarchy (short story)  Larry Niven
>                                one line
>The Wizard Compiled             Rick Cook
>                                1.5 chapters, with frequent side-notes
>Escape Velocity                 Christopher Stasheff
>                                ~ a chapter
>Folk of the Air                 Peter Beagle
>                                (It's not the SCA, it's what the SCA MIGHT
>                                have been, were magic and other oddities
>                                extant.)
>

Also Number of the Beast by Robert Heinlein

Thomas MacAndrew


-- 
"Sleep is a poor substitute for caffine."|  Tom Carmichael
	- The Wizardry Compiled		 |  tac6189@hertz.njit.edu
-----------------------------------------|  tomc@shock.njit.edu
#include <stddisclamer.h>		 |
From: Richard.Boyko@f43.n140.z1.fidonet.org (Richard Boyko)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: Disenchantment
Date: 12 Apr 92 10:12:02 GMT
Organization: FidoNet node 1:140/43 - U of S Computing Se, Saskatoon Sask


 
 On 04-11-92  Dorothea wrote... 
 
 
   > Maybe there is a phrase we could use instead? that would indicate "the 
   > mundane world" unobtrusively and without referencing a clutch of books 
   > that by comparison make late 20th-century America look like The Enchanted 
   > Ground?  I invite suggestions. 
 
There are a couple ways around Dorothea's quandry. My Crown Principality 
superior loathes the term: Mundane. She finds it offensive. Consequently, 
she refers to the present as the Mainstream world. Another possibility is 
to ask what this strange language youre locutor is speaking, and what are 
these strange things he/she/it speaks of. 
 
Submitted for your approval, by Layamon le Vavasour of Cambridge 
 
 
 
... OFFLINE 1.32 * William the Conqueror- the ORIGINAL stormin norman 

--  
Richard Boyko - via FidoNet node 1:140/22
UUCP: ...!access.usask.ca!weyr!43!Richard.Boyko
Domain: Richard.Boyko@f43.n140.z1.fidonet.org
Standard Disclaimers Apply...
From: Tim@f4229.n124.z1.fidonet.org (Tim)
Sender: FredGate@ocitor.fidonet
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: Ooops, historical error
Date: Thu, 09 Apr 1992 08:21:17

 YH> I appear to have made a mistake in my posting about waivers.  Henry II
 YH> initiated the Common Law in 1176, not 1186, as I posted earlier.

 WHAT?! *Nobody*, much less Henry II, "initiated the Common Law", in 1176 or
 any other time. You seem to be confusing that with the "limit of legal memory

 YH> Novel Deseissen contested the ownership of land.

 No, it didn't. It alleged that someone with seisin had been dispossessed of
 that land, and didn't in any way reach ownership (which was the province of
 the Writ of Right).

 Where are you "learning" all of this stuff, anyway?


 * Origin: Herald's Point * Steppes/Ansteorra * 214-699-0057 (1:124/4229)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: Why Call Light Blows?
From: vnend@nudity.UUCP (David W. James)
Date: Mon, 06 Apr 92 20:59:40 -0500
X-Mailer: Fernmail 1.1

In message <1992Apr6.143300.1@runt.appstate.edu>, Jonathan Blackbow writes:
> The concept of 'light' blows was put in in hopes that a fighter would be able
> to make a judgement call on the forcefulness of the blow to his person,
> correct?

[Please consider all of this IMHO unless I explicitly claim something to
be fact.  It is also note to be considered an attack on Lord Jonathan's
suggestion, which I believe has merit.]

If I may make so radical a statement, there is no such thing as a
"light" blow as of the last time I read the rules of the list.

SCA blows are not judged by blow force, and doing so is the first, and I
believe the foremost, cause of our problem with escalating blow force.
The rules of the list that I was trained under, and I've never been told
that things have changed, state that a blow delivered to a valid target
area in such a manner that it could have caused real damage had the
weapon and armor been real shall be acknowledged as a hit.  That is to
say, a if the blow landed clean, and the method of delivery was one that
would have allowed it to land with enough force to damage, then the
damage shall be acknowledged.  A sabre wrist flick, unless you have wrists
like ankles, cannot be delivered with enough force to hurt you through
chainmail.

Other than that, if the blow was unimpeded, not a flat, or a glancing
blow, then it is good.  Note that the rules also said that a blow that
was partially blocked, but that still landed with 'sufficient force' was
also good.

So, ideally there is no such thing as a 'light' blow.  However, the
simple fact of the matter is that the easiest way to judge blows is by
how hard they land, so that is the way most people learn.  A more
experienced fighter, who knows what a good killing blow should feel
like,  don't always say "glance" or "flat" or whatever.  It fact it
isn't always possible to tell exactly what is wrong with a blow, just
that it wasn't good.  And the 'simplest' fix is swing harder. And before
long, unless the experienced fighters (you can read 'chivalry' if you
wish) step in to put a stop to it, you've got a whole region that is
swinging harder than they were before.

As for Lord Jonathan's proposal, this is, I believe, exactly the rule
the Tuchux's use in their combat.  Any contact is effective.  One of the
Tuchux on the Rialto want to confirm that?

I think I would be interested in seeing this done as an experiment and
perhaps as a reminder, but I don't think I would like it to become the
norm.

Kwellend-Njal

---
                                           {backbone}!princeton!nudity!vnend
                        "Te audire non possum.  Musa sapientum fixa est in aure."
From: sharons@juliet.ll.mit.EDU (Sharon Stanfill)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re:  name loophole
Date: 7 Apr 92 15:24:00 GMT
Article-I.D.: orsino.9204071524.AA04921
Organization: The Internet


tim (time@f4229.n124.z1.fidonet.org) says
>One major fly in the ointment is the Mundane Name Loophole,
> whereby somebody with an undocumentable mundane name can use 
> parts of it in their SCA name.

Is there no overriding restriction or could we have:
"Moonunit of the West"

Nesta ferch Meriadoc Hartley
Carolingia
sharons@juliet.ll.mit.edu