HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: harrity@sumax.seattleu.edu (Zak)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
Subject: Re: The Wheel of Time Series (spoilers)
Date: 17 Nov 92 19:56:13 GMT
Organization: Seattle University

In article <Bxu46t.D1s@csugrad.cs.vt.edu> adrian@csugrad.cs.vt.edu (Adrian Allan Jones) writes:

>Wrong.  I just read this part as Rand was entering Rhudiean(sp).  Rand says
>that his father is Aiel, but one of the Wise Ones (I think Amys) tells him
>that he is wrong and that his mother was an Aiel.

Are you sure you haven't got it backwards?  He's always been under the
impression that his mother was Aiel...a maiden of the spear.  In fact, his
mother was a Maiden, but NOT an Aiel. Tigraine, daughter-heir of Andor,
left for the Waste under the instruction of so-and-so Sedai, who had the
Fortelling, who told her that she had to.

She married an Aiel man, became pregnant with Rand, went to war against
Cairhien and gave birth to Rand on the slopes of Dragonmount, where he was
found by Tam al'Thor, blah blah blah...you guys know the story from there,
sorry to lecture, just get carried away sometimes.  You know how it goes.

This raises an interesting point.  House Damodred seems to have the gene
that allows for channeling...should prove interesting to see what other
members of the family are up to.

Cheers,

--
Daniel John Kelly-Harrity ---------| |--------- "Sooner spit in a 
Seattle University ----------------| |---------  Wolf's Eye,
Seattle, Washington ---------------| |---------  than cross an
USA 98122 -------------------------| |---------  Aes Sedai."

  "Welcome to All Things Scottish...If it's not Scottish, It's *CRAP*!"
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
From: dani@netcom.com (Dani Zweig)
Subject: Re: Comments on Baudino's _Dragon Sword_ *SPOILERS*
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services  (408 241-9760 guest) 
Date: Tue, 17 Nov 1992 20:45:37 GMT

Baudino has written some very good stuff -- Gossamer Axe is a personal
favorite -- but the Dragon Sword trilogy is not one of her better efforts.
Yes, it does pull in too many directions:  She attempts to deal with
several red-button topics simultaneously.  My subjective reaction to
those topics which were not personally important to me, was that they
were getting in the way of the story -- that characters were acting 
against internal or plot logic in order to demonstrate the author's
points.

-----
Dani Zweig
dani@netcom.com

   'T is with our judgements as our watches, none
   Go alike, yet each believes his own
		--Alexander Pope
Organization: University of Illinois at Chicago
Date: Tuesday, 17 Nov 1992 13:14:52 CST
From: <U19807@uicvm.uic.edu>
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
Subject: Re: Farewell Horizontal
 <BxoJn0.6An@cs.uiuc.edu> <Bxquzt.D43@math.uwaterloo.ca>

In article <Bxquzt.D43@math.uwaterloo.ca>, gamiddle@math.uwaterloo.ca (Guy
Middleton) says:

>Farewell Horizontal is a wonderful book, you should go and read it at once.
>In fact, you should immediately go and read all the Jeter you can.

By all means-if you can still find any of his stuff in print,that is. I was
lucky enough to find copies of DR. ADDER,THE GLASS HAMMER and FAREWELL,HORI-
ZONTAL,but I've had no luck finding a paperback of WOLF FLOW,if a paperback
version even _exists_. And as far INFERNAL DEVICES is concerned,I guess it's
high time I hit some of the used book places around here.

      ** Chris Krolczyk,esq.  * DISCLAIMER: My opinions are in **
      ** Maniac-at-Large      * no way endorsed by the Univer- **
      ** U19807@UICVM.BITNET  * sity of Illinois at Chicago.   **
      ** u19807@uicvm.uic.edu * So there. Nyaah.               **
From: lnh@soliton.physics.arizona.edu (sometimes a Wombat)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
Subject: Re: _Swordspoint_ by Ellen Kushner
Date: 13 Nov 92 16:32:53 GMT
Distribution: na
Organization: Society for the Appreciation of Janni Lee Simner

sannuti@math.washington.edu (Arun Meda Sannuti) writes:
> 
> [Ellen Kushner] is a literature prof. at Northeastern University.

Not!

Is not, and has never been.  She is currently a radio producer for WBGH
in Boston, with her own show syndicated by American Public Radio.
Before that, she was a free-lance editor in New York.  She has 
occassionally taught classes at Northeastern (I thought writing
classes, not lit), but is not a professor.

BTW, she does talk in the witty banter the characters of SWORDSPOINT
use.

	Larry "Really" Hammer
--

                         \   Absence diminishes small loves and increases
LNH@physics.arizona.edu   \  great ones, as the wind blows out the candle 
sometimes a Wombat         \ and blows up the bonfire. -- La Rochefoucauld
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
From: miles@ms.uky.edu (Stephen D. Grant)
Subject: Re: The Wheel of Time Series (spoilers)
Keywords: Spoilers
    <1992Nov12.192312.10420@alchemy.ithaca.ny.us>
Organization: University of Kentucky, USA. -5 GMT
Date: Mon, 16 Nov 1992 03:57:47 GMT

cpf@alchemy.TN.Cornell.EDU (Courtenay Footman) writes:

>Spoilers!


>In article <1992Nov11.210117.5326@netcom.com> dani@netcom.com (Dani Zweig) writes:
>>mlebrun@bss2.umd.edu (Mike Lebrun):
>>>First, Rand and Galad are brothers.  All of the evidence is available, but 
>>>scattered through the first four books.  
>>
>>No.  Rand is Elayne's and Gawyn's cousin on the mother's side:  Morgase
>>was closest to the throne when Rand's mother disappeared without leaving
>>a daughter.  Galad shares Elayne's and Gawyn's *father*, who is not
>>presumed to be closely related to Tigraine.
>First, a question:  where is the relation between Morgase and Tigraine
>stated?  I have been trying to find this, and failing.

>Second -- Galad's father, Taringil Damodred, was Tigraine's first
>husband.  Thus Galad and Rand are half-brothers.

Wrong. Rand's father was an Aiel. Where else would he get his Aiel appearance
and be able to go through the Aiel history. It was stated that He Who Comes
With The Dawn will be born of a Maiden of the Spear, born of the old blood
and raised by the ancient blood, or something like that. 
But it is clearly stated Rand's father is an Aiel.

>>
>>>If this is true, then Rand and Morainne are blood relatives.  
>>
>>See above.  Morrainne and Elayne are Damodreds; Rand isn't.
>Rand is related to Morraine.  To be precise, Morraine is his
>aunt!!!  Thus he is also related to the late, unlamented King
>Laman,  (who is Morraine's uncle), and also somehow related to
>Barthanes, ex-lord of house Damordred.  Lovely family, right?
>(One sees why Morraine cut her connection with the house.)

>>In the first book, when we learn Lan's history, we are told that the
>>traitress who brought down his kingdom fled with her young son Isam.
>>Other evidence makes it clear that Lord Luc is some combination of
>>Luc and Isam -- probably with a Forsaken thrown in.
>The Luc--Isam connection is undeniable, but why a Forsaken?
>It seems at leas as likely to me that he is one of (the first(?) 
>of the new Dreadlords.

A Dreadlord has to be able to channel I believe. I'm not sure if that is correct
but I think the Dreadlords were used to counter the Aes Sedai.
>-- 
>-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>Courtenay Footman			I finally got back on the net.

>cpf@alchemy.ithaca.ny.us		Now I will never get anything done
From: BOOT1423@fredonia.BITNET ("Stephen M. Boothe")
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
Subject: works of L. Ron Hubbard
Date: 20 Nov 92 15:04:00 GMT
Organization: State University of New York - College at Fredonia

Hello,
       I would like to know what other sci-fi fans think of L. Ron Hubbard's
works of science fiction.  I know that his founding of the Church of
Scientology was controversial, but I am concerned with his merits as writer
of science fiction.  Are his works worth reading?  Thanks.

                                           Steve Boothe
From: ca572@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Mark L. Stackpole)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
Subject: Re: Harlan Ellison's short stories
Date: 19 Nov 1992 23:07:42 GMT
Organization: Case Western Reserve University, Cleveland, Ohio (USA)
NNTP-Posting-Host: hela.ins.cwru.edu


	Two Earth/Kyber war stories by HE which I can name off the
 top of my head: "Run for the Stars" (recently reprinted as one 
 half of a TOR double novel) and "Sleeping Dogs" (which is the last
 story of the cycle).
	There has been a graphic novel adaption also - _Night and
 the Enemy_.  Oh yes, a third one, and one of young HE's best shorts
is "Life Hutch", a problem story that would have been at home in
John W. Campbell's _Astounding_.
	Keep in mind that most of these stories were done in the 
'50, when HE was churning out plup stories as fast as Robert Silverberg
and Randall Garrett.          pulp
	Try the collection _Deathbird Stories_ to read HE at his
best behavior.
Mark_Stackpole@oclc.org
From: raymond@QV3DONALD.LEIDENUNIV.NL (Raymond Wagner)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
Subject: Re: SF-LOVERS Digest V17 #607
Date: 17 Nov 92 11:15:59 GMT

I'm sorry to do it this way, but I've tried to unsubscribe by sending
'unsub sflovers' to various listservs, but none of them recognizes me
as being signed on to the list. Can somebody please help to to signoff?

Thanks,

Raymond Wagner
raymond@qv3donald.leidenuniv.nl
Xref: sparky rec.arts.sf.written:15094 alt.cyberpunk:6001
From: jlc5f@poe.acc.Virginia.EDU (Jean L. Cooper)
Subject: bookstores in Ft. Lauderdale
Organization: University of Virginia
Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1992 20:07:22 GMT

I will be in Ft. Lauderdale FL for about 3 days at
the beginning of December.  Does anyone know of a
good SF bookstore there?  Thanks.
--
Jean L. Cooper    (BITNET: JLC5F@virginia.edu   CIS: 70253,1114)
"The true University of these days is a Collection of Books." 
                                           --Carlyle                        
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written,rec.arts.sf.misc,news.answers
From: apace@mta.ca
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written,alt.cyberpunk
Subject: Re: Diamond-hard SF
Date: 21 Nov 92 17:20:05 GMT
Reply-To: apace@mta.ca
Organization: Mount Allison U, Sackville, N.B. Canada

In article <1ekeshINNbag@agate.berkeley.edu>, curtis@cs.berkeley.edu (Curtis Yarvin) writes:
>[Lots of stuff about all kinds of things deleted in the interests of space.]
>Why?  Because they're _simplistic_.  
>
>I can summarize Gibsonism in a few sentences.  Same for
>Gernsbackism.  Shit, I think I could do Libertarianism in one.
>They're _cliches_, for god's sake!  Is anyone really fool
>enough to believe that the world is, has ever been, will ever
>be, that simple?  
>
>That, pop pop, 2000 will roll around and we'll all be stuffed
>up to here with High-Tech Lowlife and sararimen in Hawaiian
>shirts, while Ralph 12C41+ watches forlornly from his ivory
>tower and a mob of savage Randroids builds New Libertaria on
>the ruins of Pago Pago?
>
>Well, maybe.  I mean, who knows.  There's a lot of nuts out
>there.
>
>Me I like my world complex.  Juicy.  Alive.  And that takes
>more than ideology - that takes _imagination_.
>
You know, a metaphor doesn't have to be 100% accurate to be useful.
Whether or not we will be, as you put it, "stuffed up to here with 
High-Tech Lowlife" by the year 2000 is irrelevant.  The fact is, certian
social trends that Gibson has developed in his work seem to exist
in the real world.  

I'm not certian how aware of certian types of things that I would be if
I hadn't read Gibson, Sterling, Shirley, and all the others.  I think that
they've expounded some interesting ideas as to the shape of future society.
I think that Gernsback, ludicrous as his views may seem now, allowed a 
view of technology as a force that could make the world a better place in
the future.  

Of course the world is not that simple.  I don't think that anybody ever
said any different, at least in this discussion.  But to toss out any of
the ideas developed by these groups as being "cliched" is shortsighted at
best.  We may be losing valueble tools to help us understand and deal with 
the future. To see what is contained in these ideas that is interesting and
useful, to develop and expand them with your own ideas, now that takes real
imagination.

						Tony Pace
						apace@mta.ca
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written,alt.cyberpunk
From: antipope@rachel.ibmpcug.co.uk (charless@scol.sco.com)
Subject: Re: Diamond-hard SF
Organization: The IBM PC User Group, UK.
Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1992 15:03:27 GMT

szabo@techbook.com (Nick Szabo) writes:
> >In article <1992Nov6.195713.14495@math.ucla.edu> dstein@oak.math.ucla.edu (David Stein) writes:
> 
> >I'm willing to read a so-so
> >written sf novel if it is full of original and startling ideas.
> 
> I second this, and go further.  Characters and plot are the
> exemplar components of mundane fiction.  I do not care to see them 
> at all, unless they are important to the technology or to the artistry 
> of the story -- and almost always these days the artistry of the story 
> is defecated upon by the introduction of mundane characters or plot 
> elements, polluting the potentially fertile vast tracts of the SF 
> landscape with the toxic reek of an inferiority complex to mundane 
> genres.
>
You *ARE* taking the piss, aren't you?

Hint: the state of the art in SF today is about remix fiction. This
new wave bears the same relation to yesterday's tired cyberpunk and
hard SF that rap bears to old-time rock'n'roll. Ian MacDonald is along
on that trip; so are people like Mark Laidlaw, Paul di Filippo,
Simon Ings, Colin Greenland ... post-modernism cranking up to speed
inside a genre ghetto. One of these years they might even
get it together and put out a manifesto, but if I were you I wouldn't
hold my breath waiting; by the time it hits paper the wave will
be breaking on the beach and the surfers will be moving on to 
newer shores.

These are interesting days for SF, but not for the kind of 
post-Gernsbackian characterless idiocy you seem to be advocating.

Toodle-pip ...

-- 
Antipope -- HE gives you Bull, I give you the Straight ... er ....
From: pnh@panix.com (Patrick Nielsen Hayden)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
Subject: Re: origins of "ansible"
Date: 22 Nov 92 18:21:56 GMT
Organization: PANIX Public Access Unix, NYC

In <1992Nov22.061404.27926@leland.Stanford.EDU> wade@samish.stanford.edu 
(Elizabeth Wade) writes:

>Does anyone know the origins of the word "ansible" (meaning
>instantaneous communications device)?  I know Ursula Le Guin 
>used it (in _Rocannon's World_ and _The Dispossessed_ among 
>others), but did she invent it?  I also noticed it being used in 
>Orson Scott Card's _Ender_ books.  Has anyone seen it elsewhere?

"Ansible" originates with Le Guin's loosely-connected Hainish series;
Card picked it up as a conscious homage to Le Guin, and because it's
a real-sounding word, unlike the usual stfnal gobbledegook.

ANSIBLE is also the name of a Hugo-winning fanzine of news of British
fandom & prodom, edited by David Langford; it is also, as world-famous
publishing supremo Malcolm Edwards definitely did not point out in
a drunken moment, an anagram of 'lesbian.'

--------
Patrick Nielsen Hayden
pnh@panix.com
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
From: Greg_Goss@mindlink.bc.ca (Greg Goss)
Subject: Re: Title of the story/book
Organization: MIND LINK! - British Columbia, Canada
Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1992 00:45:17 GMT

* Eddie Grove writes:
*
* Msg-ID: <1e1f56INNc9d@agate.berkeley.edu>
* Posted: 13 Nov 1992 23:53:10 GMT
*
* Org.  : University of California, Berkeley
*
* In article <Bxo9C0.FFs@cs.uiuc.edu> joshi@cs.uiuc.edu (Anil Joshi) writes:
*
*  >I have read a story in a collection (or a book...I forget) which
* describes
*  >people living in high rise buildings. Some of the bad elements (akin to
* gangs)
*  >live on the balconies. There this man who wants to cross certain section
* to go
*  >to the other side for some reason or other and has to reallly work hard
* to
*  >escape a gang who inhabit the section in between. In the whole story they
* never
*  >talk about anybody living on ground and it talks about levels etc. Our
* hero
*  >reaches the otherside and he goes to the very top of a tall building
* where
*  >a lot of socially elite gather for a party etc.
*
* I think the title you want is "Farewell Horizontal", and is a full book,
* not a short story.
*
* The author might be Jeter.  I wouldn't count on it though.
*
*
* Eddie Grove


There is also "Peaches for Molly", a short from a recent Analog.

--
"say NO to four-line sigs"     greg_goss@mindlink.bc.ca
From: cozzlab@garnet.berkeley.edu ()
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
Subject: Re: Any idea when sequel to 'Magic of Recluce' will be out?
Date: 16 Nov 1992 17:37:55 GMT
Organization: University of California, Berkeley
Distribution: usa
NNTP-Posting-Host: garnet.berkeley.edu

In article <1992Nov16.082216.9821@doug.cae.wisc.edu> shen@cae.wisc.edu (Tan Shen Hsiao) writes:
>  On the last few pages of my paperback version of 'The Magic of Recluce'
>  it states that the hardcover sequel would be out in August this year.
>
>  Has anyone seen it yet? I believe it is called 'Towers of Sunset'.

I _believe_ it is out ... in hardback.  I read it in galleys.  It's OK;
but be warned that it is not a sequel, it's a prequel.

Veteran Modesitt readers will recall that a while back he wrote _The
Fires of Paratime_ about somebody's youthful adventures at a certain
time, and _then_ he wrote a prequel about somebody else's youthful
adventures thousands of years before.

Similarly, _Towers_ is a prequel set several hundred years back, about
how a pair of misfits from the mainland founded Recluce (and a hell
of a time they had with it, too).  

If I did not already have the galleys, I'd wait till it came out in paper.
Then I'd buy it.  As I say, it's OK; it's not earth-shaking.


Dorothy J. Heydt
UC Berkeley
Disclaimer: This is the Cozzarelli Lab's account, not mine--but I don't
think anybody else ever reads it.
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
From: write@eff.org (Glen Cox)
Subject: Re: Blaylock and Powers (Re: Tim Powers)
Originator: write@eff.org
Organization: Electronic Frontier Foundation
Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1992 01:09:05 GMT

In article <1992Nov17.084826.12609@neptune.inf.ethz.ch> qvortrup@inf.ethz.ch (Michael Qvortrup) writes:

>[regarding _The Last Coin_]
>A straightforward archetypical hero would not have been able to
>win in the setting presented, on that I agree. On the other - this
>is a religous topic in r.a.sf.w - I find that Donaldson did a far
>better anti-hero with Covenant in _The Chronicles of ..._. This is
>again a matter of personal taste. For a short comparison between
>the two, I would say that one of Blaylocks intents was to tell the
>reader about himself - and unless he is a very wellknown person
>I'll tend to regard this as remarkably uninteresting, whereas
>Donaldson sat down to tell a story about an anti-hero, which he
>then proceeded to do in a for me very compelling manner. I don't 
>especially like the character of Covenant, but together with the
>storyline it gives the book the special something I look for in
>books.

Yes...and no.  Rabbit in Updike's novels of that name is Updike as
much as Andrew Vanbergen is Blaylock.  They are autobiographical,
and yet they are also genotypes for characteristics fond in us all.
Perhaps it is just personal taste, Michael, but I find that I *can*
relate to Andrew Vanbergen just as much as I can relate to Thomas
Covenant.  Covenant, although he is an anti-hero, is still in an
heroic epic.  Although Andrew Vanbergen may very well be saving the
world at the end of _The Last Coin_, you would be hard-pressed to
call the book either heroic or epic.  In this case, I would be
inclined to note the differences in "tone" rather than "character."

>When all is said and done, I might go back later and read _The Last
>Coin_ with the autobiographical aspect in mind. It might change
>my perception of the book.

It might also help to understand the traditions Blaylock is playing
on, and as far as I know, you may.  However, in case you haven't
read any of the following, they may prove useful:

    John Updike, THE COUP
    Robertson Davies, The Deptford Trilogy
    Lawrence Sterne, TRISTRAM SHANDY

Of the three, I'm only sure about the last as an influence on 
Blaylock; it is one of his favorite books.  The other two are 
guesses based on certain similarities.

glen


-- 
/== Glen E. Cox =============================================================\
|  write@eff.org  |  CURRENTLY SEEKING: Rex Stout, Three at Wolfe's Door      |
|  GEnie: G.COX3  |                     P.G. Wodehouse, Mike                  |
| DELPHI: MRWRITE |                     Ed McBain, 'Til Death                 |
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
From: campo@sunthpi3.difi.unipi.it (Massimo Campostrini)
Subject: Re: A Diamond-Hard SF story
Organization: Istituto Nazionale di Fisica Nucleare
Date: Mon, 23 Nov 1992 22:02:23 GMT

In article <1992Nov23.145649.24711@afit.af.mil> 
>   morlan@afit.af.mil (Bruce W. Morlan) writes:
>
>   Submitted for your disapproval:
>
>
>		  1.999
>	 E = M * C
>
>
>   Short, succinct, no messy human characters.

No, it has one messy human character, YOU!
Please write down equations with the same dimensions on both sides!

--
        Massimo Campostrini
Istituto Nazionale di Fisica Nucleare, Sezione di Pisa,
Piazza Torricelli 2, I-56126 Pisa, Italy  ||  Phone: (+39)(50)42093
Internet: campo@sunthpi3.difi.unipi.it    ||  Fax:   (+39)(50)48277
From: mimir@hardy.u.washington.edu (Al Billings)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
Subject: Re: release date for _Javan's_Year_
Date: 21 Nov 92 05:20:48 GMT
Article-I.D.: u.1992Nov21.052048.25705
Organization: The Friends of Loki Society

In article <168A5BE55.C511199@mizzou1.missouri.edu> C511199@mizzou1.missouri.edu (Pat Flynn) writes:
>Does anyone know the release date for Katherine Kurtz's new book
>_Javan's_Year_ ?  I had heard that it was supposed to be out
>sometime in November, but the bookstores here have no clue?
>Anybody know for sure???

 It is out. I looked at it yesterday.
From: janowsky@einstein.rutgers.edu (Steven Janowsky)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
Subject: Mote sequel when? (Niven/Pournelle)
Date: 17 Nov 92 00:33:58 GMT
Organization: Rutgers Univ., New Brunswick, N.J.

Is there a sequel to THE MOTE IN GOD'S EYE coming?  If so, when?

SJ
From: lnh@soliton.physics.arizona.edu (sometimes a Wombat)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
Subject: Re: Looking for author/title of short story
Keywords: Help
Date: 13 Nov 92 22:34:25 GMT
Followup-To: na
Organization: Society for the Appreciation of Janni Lee Simner

tamossel@cs.vu.nl (Mossel TAK) writes:
> The consensus seemed to be that the story was "The nice billion names of 
> God", by A.C. Clarke.

You forgot to mention the sequel, "The Nasty Billion Names of God" by
*rth*r C. Cl*rk*, really written by L. Ron Hubbard in a bad mood caused
by jealousy at his English friend's success as a writer.

	Larry "Helpful" Hammer
--

LNH@physics.arizona.edu   \  In the deserts of the heart 
sometimes a Wombat         \ Let the healing fountains start  -- Auden