From: mueller@owlnet.rice.edu (Ernest Conrad Mueller)
Subject: Re: Is there anybody here that's not a Baptist?
Organization: Rice University
Distribution: usa
Date: Wed, 29 Jul 1992 14:52:10 GMT

I am a Lutheran, but I thought some of this bore comment.

>>I am not a Baptist, I am a baptized Greek (Eastern) Orthodox
>>christian.  Our theological beliefs are VERY different from the
>>radical breakaway groups from Western Christianity, especially
>>Baptists.  I amnot saying that we are better, just different;

>Since when is the Baptist denomination a "radical breakaway group
>from Western Christianity?"

Since shortly after the Reformation.  From the Orthodox point of view,
"Western Christianity" is primarily the Roman Catholics.  Why are the
Baptists such a radical offshoot from the RCs?  Well, besides the fact 
that they do not believe in an apostolic church, do not have sacraments except
for possibly baptism, which they do differently too, hold a view of
the Lord's Supper that has been denounced as heresy by the Catholic Church
for 16 centuries, and then by Luther as well, have come up
with a new system of government held by no historical church,
and in many ways believe the opposite of Catholicism to the point of
some ministers saying that Catholicism is a pagan religion, not much.

>>We do not accept "Speaking in tongues" as a common occurence during
>>religious experiences and we view it more as a monkey see monkey do
>>phenomenon.

>That's not different from the Baptist view.

True.  Here our Orthodox friend has confused the Baptists with the 
Charismatics.  I have heard Baptist sermons that are very much against
speaking in tongues.

>>We do not view Revelation as a true propecy of the end times

>Quotes from Revelation chapter 1 (NIV):

>v. 1 - The revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave him to show his
>       servants what must soon take place.
>vv. 17-19 - When I (John) saw him (Jesus), I fell at his feet as though
>            dead. Then he placed his right hand on me and said: "Do not
>	    be afraid. I am the First and the Last. I am the Living One;
>	    I was dead, and behold I am alive for ever and ever! And I
>	    hold the keys of death and Hades. Write, therefore, what you
>	    have seen, what is now and what will take place later."
>
>IMO, if you do not believe that Revelation is true, then you do not
>believe that Jesus Christ speaks truth.

It is not a matter of the truth - it is a matter of interpretation.  Plenty
of people believe that the Revelation is true, but that it describes Nero,
Rome, and the whole schmear, and is not all "end-times" stuff.
You might want to read v.1 - "must soon take place."

>>We have 9 more books in our old Testament

>Proverbs 30:5,6 (NIV) - Every word of God is flawless; he is a shield
>	to those who take refuge in him. Do not add to his words, or
>	he will rebuke you and prove you a liar.

The Orthodox believe that the Apocrypha are the Word of God and as divinely
inspired as the others.  You know, so did all of Christianity until the
16th century.  Check through your Bible for a similar imprecation
against those who take away or detract from His words; the closest thing
I can think of is the end of Revelation, but I am sure that it's
in there somewhere. 

>I am a Baptist, but I do not wish to imply that the Baptist denomination
>is the "only true denomination" as all too often many Baptists (that I
>have known) have a tendency to believe.  I am a Baptist by choice, my
>personal beliefs are closest to those of the Baptists.  Therefore, I have
>chosen the Baptist denomination.

I was raised United Methodist, but was not a Christian until I went away
to college, where I was converted by some friends in Campus Crusade for
Christ (as Baptist as you get).  I then went to Baptist, Independent
(Crusade-controlled) Presbyterian, and Evangelical Free churches for a 
while.  Then I went to a PCUSA church, then Episcopal, and now Lutheran.
Some would say I'm on a "train bound to hell, or Catholicism at least,"
but I think I've gotten to where I'm going.

I praise God for my diverse background which enables me to see all the
different points of view out there.  All these churches worship God in
the way they believe is right.  Each has its own strengths and weaknesses.

I have met so many Christians who do not understand a bit of what other 
Christians think or do, that it frightens me.  I was working as a youth
minister at the PCUSA church I mentioned (First Pres of Houston) and
I took some kids to an evening service at the local Episcopal church.
They were so freaked out I had my hands full keeping them quiet!  The
priest came in wearing full attire, and they thought he looked like
Obi-Wan Kenobi.  In my experience, most of the intolerance between
denominations is a similar phenomenon.  "That's weird!  It must be 
heretical and evil!"  I urge everyone to see beyond their little
corner of the world and join the Body of Christ here on earth.

Read 1 Corinthians sometime, esp. chapters 1, 3, and 12.  13 might not hurt
either.  I say this to all of you.

In Christ,
Ernest Mueller
Newsgroups: rec.music.christian