HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: avib@microsoft.com (Avi Belinsky)
Subject: Re: Novell to buy USL
Date: 30 Dec 92 21:58:03 GMT
Organization: Microsoft Corporation

In article <DVC.92Dec23142946@eagle.ATT.COM> dvc@eagle.hr.att.com (David Van Cleef) writes:
|>>>>> On Wed, 23 Dec 1992 18:11:56 GMT, messina@netcom.com (Tony Porczyk) said:
|
|TP> Just to interject some sanity here - when was the last time you checked
|TP> prices for UNIX software?  Why don't you do that before talking about
|TP> making huge amounts of money.  This is the problem - UNIX will never
|TP> make it to Joe Blow's desktop as long as the prices are that obscene.
|
|And the prices will not come down until UNIX makes it to Jow Blow's
|desktop.  Catch-22.
|
|--
|David A. Van Cleef			AT&T Bell Laboratories
|internet: dvc@eagle.hr.att.com		Red Hill Facility, Middletown, NJ

[Potential bias warning:  I work for Microsoft, but do not speak for them]

IMHO, not exactly a catch-22, since I've heard no one discuss the real
reason an OS gains popularity: Packaged software.

OS'es (and hardware for that matter) almost don't matter.  Very few people
buy an OS because of its technical ability or its price.  People buy it
for what it allows them to do.  This almost always boils down to
packaged software.  Since UNIX has virtually none, I believe it just doesn't
matter what you charge.

Why was the Apple ][ successful ? Visicalc!

Why was the IBM PC   successful ? Lotus 123!

Does this belong in misc.invest or comp.religion ?  Dunno, but (IMHO)
unless Novell uses USL to provide an opportunity to sell packaged UNIX
software, they may have dumped $360M down a hole.  Frankly, SCO's success
at this strategy hasn't been overwhelming.

- Avi
---------------------------------------------------------------
Avi Belinsky                        
Microsoft Corporation               avib@microsoft.com
(206) 936-6896                      ...uunet!microsoft!avib

Standard Disclaimer:  The above are my opinions, not my employer's.
Newsgroups: comp.sys.att
From: greg@serveme.chi.il.us (Gregory Gulik)
Subject: Re: 3b/400 speedups
Organization: Gagme Public Access Unix, Chicago, Illinois
Distribution: usa
Date: Fri, 1 Jan 1993 18:33:34 GMT

In article <1992Dec30.132655.647@hakatac.almanac.bc.ca> rthomas@hakatac.almanac.bc.ca (Robert N Thomas) writes:
>
>    I took a few moments to take a look inside my 3B2/400 system...
>
>One chip Labeled...
>   WE  32102-W
>   McCoy 8528
>   MC790A1-001
>   1x = 10.00MHz
>   2x = 20.00MHz
>
>   This one looks like a wierd oversized clock chip..  It has about 6-12
>pins which are soldered directly into a 3-4 multi-layered motherboard..
>The de-soldering of this type of beast gived me goosebumps, and I start
>having nightmares of the trace on layer 2 not getting connected back up
>for some reason..  I am hopeful that this isn't the one I am to remove!!

Yeah, that's the one.  My original 400 had that chip soldered in,
but I picked up another motherboard that had that chip socketed.
Actually, about 3/4 of the 400 motherboards I've seen have that
chip socketed.

>Another CLOCK CHIP labeled...
>    CTS SINGAPORE
>    974-6033-0
>    20.0 MHz
>    8448   887
>
>    This one looks like a typical STD clock chip one might find in an old
>IBM AT computer.  I don't have nightmares about de-soldering this one...
>Is this the chip you replaced???  If this is the GUY, I might PLOP in a 25MHz
>chip, and increase the speed by 20%..

I have no clue what that chip is.

-greg

-- 
Gregory A. Gulik                                 Call Gagme, a public access
       greg@serveme.chi.il.us                    UNIX system at 312-282-8606
   ||  gulik@rtsg.mot.com                        For information, drop a note
                                                 to info@gagme.chi.il.us
Newsgroups: comp.sys.att,comp.sys.novell,misc.invest
From: acheng@ncsa.uiuc.edu (Albert Cheng)
Subject: Re: What good is a non-deductible IRA?
Originator: acheng@shalom.ncsa.uiuc.edu
Organization: Nat'l Ctr for Supercomp App (NCSA) @ University of Illinois
Distribution: usa
Date: Wed, 30 Dec 1992 16:31:17 GMT


In article <1992Dec30.145549.15467@pbhyg.PacBell.COM>, jaorans@pbhyg.PacBell.COM (Jeff Oransky) writes:
>You are right, this is not a true statement.  All dividends and capital
>gains that a mutual fund distributes, even if they are automatically
>reinvested, are taxable as income and must be reported on schedule B.

more yet, even if the NAV drops, you may still have to pay tax for
distributed captial gains and dividends.
Newsgroups: comp.sys.att
From: greg@serveme.chi.il.us (Gregory Gulik)
Subject: Re: GCC for the 3B2 - assembly problems (was: GCC)
Organization: Gagme Public Access Unix, Chicago, Illinois
Date: Fri, 1 Jan 1993 18:40:28 GMT

In article <1992Dec30.085605.26999@phyrql.Alt.ZA> lucio@proxima.Alt.ZA writes:
>I've already posted this, but I suspect I hung up too fast and
>the news poster didn't complete the posting.  Apologies if it
>appears a second time...

This is the only post I've seen.

>Firstly, thanks to Greg Gulik (I hope I got the spelling right), for
>the remarkable 3b2 binaries for GCC (2.3.2).

You're welcome.

>I _do_ however have a mild problem: the assembler finds many of the
>generated code unpalatable (mostly invalid instructions).  I guess
>that I have a somewhat dated assembler or that I need to instruct
>GCC to generate code with appropriate limitations for the 3B2/300
>I am running it on (Sys V r3.1).

Which version of the C compiler do you have?
I used version 4.1 to build those binaries.

>Also, I'd be keen to establish the purpose of
>	/usr/local/lib/gcc-lib/3b2/2.3.2/specs
>(a MAN page would be great) specially if it will assist with the
>above problem.

I have no idea what it is.  I'm no GCC expert, I just build
it on several systems every time there is a major improvement.

-greg

-- 
Gregory A. Gulik                                 Call Gagme, a public access
       greg@serveme.chi.il.us                    UNIX system at 312-282-8606
   ||  gulik@rtsg.mot.com                        For information, drop a note
                                                 to info@gagme.chi.il.us
Xref: sparky comp.sys.att:2716 comp.sys.novell:10809 misc.invest:15333
From: an030@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Broward Horne)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.att,comp.sys.novell,misc.invest
Subject: Re: Novell to buy USL
Date: 23 Dec 1992 20:34:53 GMT
Organization: Case Western Reserve University, Cleveland, OH (USA)
Reply-To: an030@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Broward Horne)
NNTP-Posting-Host: hela.ins.cwru.edu


In a previous article, watanabe@cs.uiuc.edu (Larry Watanabe) says:

>jmatrow@donald.WichitaKS.NCR.COM (John Matrow) writes:
>
>I'm wondering if other people could tell me what the implications
>of this are.
>
>Does this mean that Novell is stacking up Unix against Windows NT?
>I think a head on fight with Microsoft would be viewed very
>negatively. Microsoft is a big company with no debt and a long


        Everybody is missing one thing.

   Prelude to Our Story:

        I work with IBM Lan Server.  We're considering switching to
        Novell.  The major stumbling block is 


            i)  Cost, although this is shrinking in importance.
            ii) Novell currently has no central management system.  At
                least not that *I* would want to use.


       Banyan  ( Vines ) just went public, probably to raise funds in 
       order to capitalize on Novell's central management weakness.  Many
       sites have several Novell networks ( as this univerisity does )
       which can not be integrated or controlled easily. 


   So.  I would view Novell's move as a counter to Banyan, not Windows NT.
   Novell is working to produce a large scale, easily integrated networking
   environment, to push onto the many small Novell networks that are 
   coalescing into one large whole.  Anyone seeing Banyan's latest products
   realizes that Banyan is going after some of Novell's markets.

   How important is USL?  Well, it's being evaluated at my counterpart lab
   at University of Idaho.  The price sure is right, plus many of the features.
   I considering putting in a recommendation for it, but most everybody on
   the Boise State side doesn't want to hear about Unix.


>

Newsgroups: comp.sys.att
From: greg@serveme.chi.il.us (Gregory Gulik)
Subject: Re: 3b/400 speedups
Organization: Gagme Public Access Unix, Chicago, Illinois
Distribution: usa
Date: Fri, 1 Jan 1993 18:31:27 GMT

In article <1992Dec30.113643.20958@hakatac.almanac.bc.ca> rthomas@hakatac.almanac.bc.ca (Robert N Thomas) writes:
>     Greg,  I think we would all find it "MOST INTERESTING" if you could
>discuss this a bit further..  Was it a 3B2 type KIT you purchased, or
>did you just purchase some "FASTER" chips from from semi-conductor catalog.
>I for one would be REAL interested in hearing about exactly what chips you
>replaced??

I bought it from a friend who is a serious 3B2 HACK (in the biggest way).
He had 2 complete 14 Mhz chipsets and he sold me one.  I have no idea
where he got them.

>     I thought about trying something with the CLOCK crystal, but thought it
>might through the system's CLOCK into OVERDRIVE  (ie it might run too fast?).

You mean the clock?  There are two clocks, the CPU clock and the time
of day clock.

>     This is indeed most interesting...  I think I'll give it a try, and
>see if "SMOKE" appears???  I wonder what the "heat" factor would be for
>the CHIPSET, running a few extra MHz??  Did you check the time for any
>"speedups??" when you did the above??

Yes, the chips get quite hot running at 14 Mhz.  Actually, I have
a fan blowing into my 400 to make sure it keeps cool.

Speaking of this stuff, did everyone see the recent posting
in misc.forsale.computer of several 14 Mhz 3B2's?

-greg

-- 
Gregory A. Gulik                                 Call Gagme, a public access
       greg@serveme.chi.il.us                    UNIX system at 312-282-8606
   ||  gulik@rtsg.mot.com                        For information, drop a note
                                                 to info@gagme.chi.il.us
Newsgroups: comp.sys.att,comp.sys.novell,misc.invest
From: messina@netcom.com (Tony Porczyk)
Subject: Re: Novell to buy USL
Organization: Messina Software
Date: Wed, 23 Dec 1992 23:33:22 GMT

an030@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Broward Horne) writes:

>In a previous article, messina@netcom.com (Tony Porczyk) says:

>>Just to interject some sanity here - when was the last time you checked
>>prices for UNIX software?  Why don't you do that before talking about
>>making huge amounts of money.  This is the problem - UNIX will never
>>make it to Joe Blow's desktop as long as the prices are that obscene.
>
>        USL educational discount - $50 per machine

I was talking about Joe Blow running spreadsheets and databases (no,
not $50,000 Sybase or Oracle).  So forget the educational discount,
and also look at the prices of apps (many different kinds of apps, not
just your favorite pet app).  Write again after you recover from a
heart attack. 

t.
From: skilby@ucqais.cba.uc.edu (Steven M. Kilby)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.att
Subject: GCC
Date: 28 Dec 92 21:24:03 GMT
Organization: University of Cincinnati, College of Business
Originator: skilby@ucqais.cba.uc.edu

Hey all,
    Greg Gulik's contribution of GCC has been placed on the FTP server at
ucqais.cba.uc.edu.  I would have gotten to this sooner but I was on vacation.
Sorry about that.  On another note..... I have decided to leave the contrib
directory on ucqais.cba.uc.edu as a permanent addition.  Feel free to
place anything on there you would like available on the archive.  There are
two restrictions:

1.  Unless you and I have worked out a separate agreement, sources must
    be present.  If you only wish the binaries made available that is fine,
    but I must have the sources.

2.  Make sure that there is a valid address that I can contact you at in the
    contribution.


Thanks,
    Steve....
-- 
Steven M. Kilby..................Coordinator, Computer Information Systems
University of Cincinnati................College of Business Administration
(Steven.Kilby@UC.EDU or skilby@ucqais.cba.uc.edu)   PHONE:  (513) 556-7159
Newsgroups: comp.sys.att
From: greg@serveme.chi.il.us (Gregory Gulik)
Subject: Re: 3b/400 speedups
Organization: Gagme Public Access Unix, Chicago, Illinois
Distribution: usa
Date: Fri, 1 Jan 1993 18:36:39 GMT

In article <1992Dec29.203753.140@sactoh0.sac.ca.us> ccpoabt!dan@sactoh0.SAC.CA.US (Daniel James) writes:
>
>I can't remember exactly what it is, if it's a cpu replacement, or a
>(crystal?) to speed up the clock.  I'd have to go pull an old invoice to
>see how much it cost us about two years ago (new), but whatever it was, I
>don't think it was worth it.  Somewhere around $800 I think, and it only
>increased the speed by 2 or 4 mhz.

Well, I'm sure you can pick up a set for much less than that
these days, if you can fine one.

Anyway, the 4Mhz increase in speed improved the dhrystone
benchmark by 39%, but most importantly, the system FEELS
about twice as fast!

I had some hardware problems a few weeks ago, and to help
isolate them, I popped the old 10 Mhz clock in, and I sure
couldn't wait to get that 14 Mhz clock back in!

My users were bitching and moaning that the system was slow
as molasses.

Basically, I'm very happy with the performance of the system
at 14 Mhz.  I highly recommend it to anyone who can get
their hands on one.

-greg

-- 
Gregory A. Gulik                                 Call Gagme, a public access
       greg@serveme.chi.il.us                    UNIX system at 312-282-8606
   ||  gulik@rtsg.mot.com                        For information, drop a note
                                                 to info@gagme.chi.il.us
Newsgroups: comp.sys.att
From: hak@alf.cooper.edu (Jeff Hakner)
Subject: Re: need help with 3B2/1000 M80 PEs
Organization: The Cooper Union ( NY, NY )
Date: Mon, 21 Dec 1992 23:09:52 GMT

in article <727@mtndew.Tustin.CA.US>, friedl@mtndew.Tustin.CA.US (Stephen Friedl) says:
> 
> Hi folks,
> 
>      Two customers have just upgraded their machines to 3B2/1000
> model 80s, each with an extra Processing Element (PE).  We are
> at a loss, however, as how to know anything about whether these
> things are helping or how we can administer them.  Where can I
> find some documentation on this?

You'll need the Multiprocessor Utilities software.  Which OS do you
have?  Assuming it's 3.2.3, you'll need rel 3.1.  Chances are,
it was shipped with the system, and maybe even installed.

THe PE boards don't really do much.  They're asymmetrical
processor elements which can run some of the jobs.  To see if
the PEs are being used, use the command sar -q and look for
activity in the coprocessor run queue.

Again, you can't really do any neat things with these cards,
they just give you a performance boost.

--Jeff Hakner
"Also a 3B2-kind-of-guy!"
Xref: sparky comp.sys.att:2768 comp.sys.novell:10928 misc.invest:15497
From: guy@Auspex.COM (Guy Harris)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.att,comp.sys.novell,misc.invest
Subject: Re: Sidebar re BSD (in ``Novell to buy USL'')
Date: 30 Dec 92 07:00:26 GMT
Followup-To: comp.sys.att
Organization: Auspex Systems, Santa Clara

>  I keep hearing this quoted, but it ain't really true: it's still a
>horse-race.  Sun is heading for SysV, but IBM is headed the other way.
>DEC is staying berklazoid, but on the OSF/1 kernel, like IBM.

IBM doesn't seem to be committed to the OSF/1 kernel on the
POWER architecture, although their latest AIX for the PeeCee and 390
architectures are, I think, OSF/1-based.

>Variuous other peope are just talking about moving to one camp or the
>other.

Err, to which "camps" are you referring?  OSF/1 vs. SVR4?  "BSD"
(whatever *that* means) vs. SVR4?

How "berklazoid" is DEC's OSF/1?  (Hint: if "it has the sockets API"
makes it "berklazoid", then USL's gone berklazoid....)
Xref: sparky comp.sys.att:2699 comp.sys.novell:10761 misc.invest:15272
From: bote@access.digex.com (John Boteler)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.att,comp.sys.novell,misc.invest
Subject: Re: Novell to buy USL
Date: 22 Dec 1992 19:45:03 GMT
Organization: Express Access Public Access UNIX, Greenbelt, Maryland USA
NNTP-Posting-Host: access.digex.com

watanabe@cs.uiuc.edu (Larry Watanabe) writes:
>A bigger question than these anomalies though is what are the
>implications for Unix? How important is USL?

Ask Sun Microsystems.

Word is that they are the horse to beat.


-- 
bote@access.digex.com (John Boteler) 
This week's usenet malapropism: its, it's
its = posessive pronoun; "My car blew its engine."
it's = contraction of 'it is'; "It's cold outside!"
Xref: sparky comp.sys.att:2737 comp.sys.novell:10848 misc.invest:15390
From: thad@cup.portal.com (Thad P Floryan)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.att,comp.sys.novell,misc.invest
Subject: Re: What good is a non-deductible IRA?
Date: Thu, 24 Dec 92 16:43:55 PST
Organization: The Portal System (TM)
Distribution: usa

Has this newsgroup, comp.sys.att,  been renamed "comp.sys.irs" ??    :-)

In any event ...

In article <24DEC199215511582@csa1.lbl.gov> schindler@csa1.lbl.gov writes:

| In article <1hddvvINNa87@tamsun.tamu.edu>, tpradeep@cs.tamu.edu (Pradeep K
| Tapadiya) writes...
| > 
| >But many growth funds offer a plan to automatically reinvest the capital
| >gains. As long as I don't receive any cash in hand, I don't pay any taxes.
| >Thus my earnings are tax-deferred without even having an IRA.
| > 
| >Pradeep
| 
| Yikes!  Stop the presses, Pradeep.  Capital gains distributions are taxable.
| I'd advise filing amended returns if you have neglected to declare this
| income in the past.

Especially if you've received any 1099-XXX (where "XXX" = "DIV", "MISC", etc)
and ESPECIALLY if you've received any Forms 2468 from them.  You'll have to do
special things regarding receipt of a Form 2468 ("Undistributed Capital Gains")
.

Thad Floryan [ thad@btr.com, thad@cup.portal.com ]
Xref: sparky comp.sys.att:2745 comp.sys.novell:10860 misc.invest:15408
From: an030@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Broward Horne)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.att,comp.sys.novell,misc.invest
Subject: Re: Novell to buy USL
Date: 26 Dec 1992 20:51:18 GMT
Organization: Case Western Reserve University, Cleveland, OH (USA)
Reply-To: an030@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Broward Horne)
NNTP-Posting-Host: hela.ins.cwru.edu


In a previous article, messina@netcom.com (Tony Porczyk) says:

>an030@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Broward Horne) writes:
>
>>In a previous article, messina@netcom.com (Tony Porczyk) says:
>
>>>Just to interject some sanity here - when was the last time you checked
>>>prices for UNIX software?  Why don't you do that before talking about
>>>making huge amounts of money.  This is the problem - UNIX will never
>>>make it to Joe Blow's desktop as long as the prices are that obscene.
>>
>>        USL educational discount - $50 per machine
>
>I was talking about Joe Blow running spreadsheets and databases (no,
>not $50,000 Sybase or Oracle).  So forget the educational discount,
>and also look at the prices of apps (many different kinds of apps, not
>just your favorite pet app).  Write again after you recover from a
>heart attack. 

      You can run your dos stuff in it.  What's the difference?
      Why ELSE would I be looking at it for student labs?  :)

>
>t.
>

Newsgroups: comp.sys.att
From: gulik@rtsg.mot.com (Gregory Gulik)
Subject: Patching uucico on 3B2 ??
Organization: Motorola, Inc., Cellular Infrastructure Group
Date: Mon, 21 Dec 1992 23:31:58 GMT


Has anyone patched the standard HDB uucico on the 3B2 to
allow it to support packet sizes greater than 64 and
window sizes greater than 3 ???

-greg

-- 

gulik@rtsg.mot.com  (Gregory Gulik)  [NeXT]
Newsgroups: comp.sys.att
Subject: Re: 3b/400 speedups
From: rthomas@hakatac.almanac.bc.ca (Robert N Thomas)
Date: Wed, 30 Dec 92 01:32:01 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: Sir HackAlot's Castle BBS, Port Alberni, B.C., Canada

In article <1992Dec28.152156.22894@tigger.jvnc.net> mtcusa@tigger.jvnc.net (Multilingual Technogies Corporation) writes:
>Rumors abound of ways to get a 3b/400 to move faster, things like
>faster clocks, etc.

    I have also heard about this stuff..  Something about changing the clock
crystal for the CPU...  I was hoping they would post this info as it would
be most helpful....

>The FAQ on the usenet archive doesn't say anything about this.

    There is one person...   Jeff Hakner  hak@alf.cooper.edu has posted
a message here detailing that he has been successful at expanding a 3B2/310
to 6 MB of ram.  This type of procedure could also be done to 3B2/400's as well.

    This type of modification could translate into a faster computer as it will
not have to swap to disk all the time...  Jeff says he will be posting a bit on
this type of modification to the net so that we can all benefit from his work.

     For time being, I suspect Jeff is the only 3B2/300 system with 6MB of RAM..
Me I know I could sure use this as well <grin>..


Cheers....

					---- Robb ----

P.S. - I still have his post and could re-post it...
From: vqh@dwrock.att.com (D461-Viet_Q_Hoang(0)82572)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.att
Subject: Re: Can you do uucp over tcp/ip on 3b2/1000
Date: 1 Jan 93 18:29:55 GMT
Reply-To: vqh@dwrock.att.com
Originator: vqh@dwrock

From article <C04y3C.8M4@mpls911.uucp>, by kevin@mpls911.uucp (Kevin Herrboldt):
> gulik@rtsg.mot.com (Gregory Gulik) writes:
>> In article <1hahu3INNk70@matt.ksu.ksu.edu> mgriffin@matt.ksu.ksu.edu (Mark Griffin) writes:
> 
> Basically, you use nlsadmin to add a uucico service to the network
> listener:
  ...

Just a note: if you didn't load RFS, you also need to modify
/etc/rc2.d/S86win3b to run 'nlsadmin -s tcp' to start the listener at
boot time.

-- 

Viet Hoang
AT&T, Denver Works
v.q.hoang@att.com
From: HOUSER@MAINE.MAINE.EDU
Newsgroups: comp.sys.att
Subject: New 3b2 owner, a few questions on how to get going
Date: 21 Dec 92 19:03:30 GMT
Organization: University of Maine System


Well, I just inherited a 3b2/300. It's in somewhat of a strange state
at the moment, and I've got a few questions about how to get it going
in a working sort of state;

1 - When I boot the machine, I get a NVRAM sanity failure, most likely
    because my battery is dead, anyone have a good cheap source for the
    3.6v lithium batteries?

2 - After diagnostics pass, unix load from the har disk, but I never get
    the 'Console Login:' message. The computer just hangs after the unix
    load message comes up.

3 - To try to solve the second problem I figured I could reload the OS
    Apparently I don't have the core disks though, I have Essential Utils
    (5 disks) Floppy Key, Term utils, help utils, spell utils, graphic utils
    (3 disks) file perm utils, performance utils, network utils. Is there
    any way to locate some core disks I can use, or copy.

4 - is there a FAQ, and/or archive site for 3b2 stuff, I've read this group
    for the past few days and so no mention of such a thing.

I apologize if these are already answered questions and have been beaten to
death already. Everyone is new once!

Stephen Houser
houser@usm.maine.edu
Newsgroups: comp.sys.att
From: ssa@unity.ncsu.edu (S. Alavi)
Subject: Re: Need help with AT&T UNIX PC
Organization: NC State University
Date: Tue, 22 Dec 1992 14:49:19 GMT

In article <1992Dec18.160613.1@evax12.eng.fsu.edu> tsai@evax12.eng.fsu.edu writes:
>
>     We have several AT&T UNIX PCs (PC7300) in our lab.  They have been
>rarely used.  Recently, the chairperson wants them to run DOS and DOS
>applications such as MATLAB.  Is anyone familier with the way to make it
>work ?  Any help or advice is greatly appreciated.
>
>Thanks,
>
>Jack.

	Yes, Get rid of them (sell them) and buy cheap PCs :-) PC7300 was 
	not meant to be a DOS machine....

	======  S. Alavi    [ssa@unity.ncsu.edu]  (919)467-7909 (H)  ========
Newsgroups: comp.sys.att,comp.sys.novell,misc.invest