HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: kls@ohare.Chicago.COM (Karl Swartz)
Newsgroups: rec.aviation
Subject: Re: United flight's cargo door?
Date: 28 Jul 92 10:50:42 GMT
Organization: Chicago Software Works

In article <CKD.92Jul24180332@loiosh.eff.org> ckd@eff.org (Christopher Davis) writes:
>Interesting note: when _The Last Nine Minutes_ was written, the THY
>crash was the only jumbo hull loss at the time (1976--I can't think of
>any before that, anyway).  Of course, the DC-10's hydraulics were
>rerouted after this, which contributed to the AA crash at ORD...ack.

I doubt the rerouting of the hydraulics after the THY crash had much
to do with the crash of AA 191 at ORD since the affected areas were
in completely different parts of the aircraft.  (Aft section in the
former, wings in the latter.)  However, the rerouting from the THY
crash *did* put the hydraulics in the line of fire for the #2 engine
fan, which led directly to the crash of UA 232 at SUX.  Perhaps that
is the contribution you were thinking of?  (There are so many suspect
parts of the DC-10 hydraulic design that it's hard to keep 'em all
straight!)

-- 
Karl Swartz		|INet	kls@ditka.chicago.com
1-415/854-3409		|UUCP	uunet!decwrl!ditka!kls
			|Snail	2144 Sand Hill Rd., Menlo Park CA 94025
"YOU try supporting 80 users on a steam-powered abacus!" (Alan Kaplan)
From: myshatyn@hpfcso.FC.HP.COM (Mike Myshatyn)
Date: Thu, 23 Jul 1992 14:49:33 GMT
Subject: Re: use of non-TSO'd equipment
Organization: Hewlett-Packard, Fort Collins, CO, USA
Newsgroups: rec.aviation

John B. Schneider writes:

> The King literature seemed to indicate that this equipment
> was good for everything other than some some 'international' flights
> that required TSO'd equipment.  Finally, if I'm wrong and non-TSO'd
> equipment cannot be used for an approach, does that mean it cannot be
> used in any way?  

As I understand it, non-TSO'ed  equipment can be used for approaches,  etc.
while  operating  under  Part 91  rules.  As soon  as the  plane/pilot  are
operating under Part 135 or Part 121, then the equipment MUST be TSO'ed.

--
 Mike Myshatyn    Bonanza N4896J           Hewlett-Packard Company
   ASEL/AMEL COMM, INSTR, CFI-IA           User-Interface Technology Division
 ...!hplabs!fc.hp.com!myshatyn             Ft. Collins, CO  80525
 or ... myshatyn@fc.hp.com                 (303) 229-4067

Newsgroups: rec.aviation
From: dick.zeitlin%acc1bbs@ssr.com (Dick Zeitlin) 
Newsgroups: rec.aviation
Subject: Phantom controller
Date: 21 Jul 92 22:24:00 GMT
Distribution: world
Organization: Advanced Computer Concepts BBS, New Rochelle, NY 914-654-1981
Reply-To: dick.zeitlin%acc1bbs@ssr.com (Dick Zeitlin) 

TBK> .The hole thing brought up two points in my mind. One, has anyone else her
   > .of phantom controllers? and also, imagine what would have happend to this
   > .pilot if the Delta captin was not there to back him up. The tower was blo
   > .from the signal and it was there word against the pilots. Thats what scar
   > .me about the FAA.

It's happened at LGA more than once.  But there was a warning on the
ATIS to avoid confusion and chaos.

        D/

 * OLX 2.2 * Dick.Zeitlin%acc1bbs@ssr.com
        
Newsgroups: rec.aviation
From: rkaplan@netcom.com (Richard Kaplan)
Subject: Re: Temperature Related Altimeter Errors
Date: Tue, 28 Jul 92 14:36:08 GMT
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services  (408 241-9760 guest) 

In article <z-V-j-B@engin.umich.edu> dlevy@viper.engin.umich.edu 
(David W Levy) writes:
>

>> >>altimeter setting were established not by a barometric
>> >>reading but by the weather man fiddling with his altimeter
>> >>until it read exactly field elevation?
>
>This is exactly how the altimeter setting is determined, more or less.


Except for temperature effects.



>I thought that all minimum altitudes specified by the FAA for IFR use
>(MDA, MOCA, etc.) included adequate safety margins even when pressure
>altitude is lower than tapeline altitude on very cold days.  Anybody
>know for sure?

Take a look at the IFR article I quoted from this month.
They give an example where there is DANGEROUSLY little
margin.

Even if there were reasonable margin, what do we gain by
not adjusting for temperature effects?

What better way can there be to define an altimeter
setting than operationally, i.e. whatever it takes to get
the altimeter to read field elevation?



-- 
Richard Kaplan M.D.           Medical Software Exchange BBS
806 2nd St. SW # 104          (507) 281-1989 14,400 HST
Rochester, MN  55902          (507) 281-1689 Voice
PP-ASEL-IA     N4VRB          rkaplan@mayo.edu|netcom.netcom.com  
Newsgroups: rec.aviation
From: doshay@ursa.arc.nasa.gov (David Doshay)
Subject: Re: unreliable VOR navigation
Keywords: Gorman CA VOR
Organization: NASA-Ames Biocomputation Center
Date: Tue, 21 Jul 1992 20:13:51 GMT

In article <greg.711685423@octopus>, greg@octopus.dpsi.com (Gregory R. Travis) writes:
|> Is it possible that you were too far from the station?  ...
|> 
|> In this "bermuda" zone the VOR needle will constantly swing back
|> and forth just like a windshield wiper.  Kinda fun.  Kinda disconcerting.

I was within 40 miles of the station, and close to the station it was
so bad that I did not end up flying anywhere near the station. I almost always
see the station, and this time I was certianly far away.

David		doshay@soma.arc.nasa.gov

The thought police insist I tell you:
my thoughts, not NASA's
Newsgroups: rec.aviation
From: phil@eecs.nwu.edu (William LeFebvre)
Subject: Re: Suit filed against Bell Helicopter
Organization: EECS Department, Northwestern University
Distribution: na
Date: Wed, 22 Jul 1992 19:55:48 GMT

In article <1992Jul22.175644.17058@eecs.nwu.edu>, I wrote:
|>  Why?  Because once the suit is filed
|> you cannot ADD any plaintiffs.
                      ^^^^^^^^^^

Mucho apologies.  That should read "cannot ADD any defendants".

		William LeFebvre
		Computing Facilities Manager and Analyst
		Department of Electrical Engineering and Computer Science
		Northwestern University
		<phil@eecs.nwu.edu>
From: john@newave.mn.org (John A. Weeks III)
Newsgroups: rec.aviation
Subject: Re: Pt. Magu Airshow
Date: 21 Jul 92 14:34:21 GMT
Organization: Newave Communications, Ltd, Lake Wobegon, MN

In <22482@hacgate.SCG.HAC.COM> twalk@scg8a.scg.hac.com (Tyler Walker) writes:
> Does anyone from Southern California know the date for the Pt. Magu Airshow?

October 10 & 11.  Look for the Canadian Snobirds (my favorite of the jet
teams), Wayne Handley (who puts on an absolutely great high speed aerobatic
demonstration), Osterud Aviation, and the Red Baron Squadron (four slow
stearmans really don't thrill me too much unless they were painted up in
WWII markings).  There will also be a static display and military aircraft
on the ground and in the air.

-john-

-- 
==============================================================================
John A. Weeks III		(612) 942-6969		    john@newave.mn.org
Newave Communications, Ltd.			    ..!uunet!tcnet!newave!john
From: al@qiclab.scn.rain.com (Alan Peterman)
Newsgroups: rec.aviation
Subject: Re: Shoulder Harnesses (Was: Re: Cessna sholdr harn review (BAS))
Date: 22 Jul 92 05:05:32 GMT
Article-I.D.: qiclab.1992Jul22.050532.21758
Organization: SCN Research/Qic Laboratories of Tigard, Oregon.

In article <1992Jul21.225146.9252@odin.corp.sgi.com> lmcgee@sgi.com writes:
>In article <5019@transfer.stratus.com>, spenny@sw.stratus.com (Steve Pennypacker) writes:
>|> I've never been able to 
>|> get the shoulder harnesses in C-150s and 172s to stay attached to the lap
>|> belt.  Just so we're all talking about the same type of harness, the type
>|> I'm talking about is the manual, non inertia-reel harness with a fastener
>|> that consists of a mostly flat metal plate with a cutout in it, and the 
>|> cutout is supposed to fit into an interlocking peg on the lap belt.
>
>It sounds like your lap built is missing a part, which is a small nylon 
>washer which when installed allows a snug fit for the should belt 
>cutout.  With this, you can go ahead and wear the shoulder belt just 
>loose enough to reach stuff.

Another cheap but good way to remedy this problem is to get some large
diameter heat shrink tubing.  Get stuff JUST large enough to go over
the peg's head.  The shrink it onto the shaft of the peg and it will
nicely hold the belt in the proper fashion.  It lasts at least 500
hours for a net expense of about a nickel..

Did this fix on the 177RG and it worked perfectly, and lasted for years.

-- 
Alan L. Peterman                                   (503)-684-1984 hm
                       al@qiclab.scn.rain.com
It's odd how as I get older, the days are longer, but the years are shorter!
Newsgroups: rec.aviation
From: jcmorris@mwunix.mitre.org (Joe Morris)
Subject: Re: Controlled airspace
Organization: The MITRE Corporation
Date: Thu, 30 Jul 1992 14:12:43 GMT

brecher@pyramid.unr.edu (Steve Brecher) writes:

>In <1992Jul28.171604.6806@crash.cts.com>, dm@pnet01.cts.com (Dan Melson)
>writes:

>> ron@pilot.njin.net (Ron Natalie) writes:

>> >     ATA's are not controlled airspace (yet).

>> I advise you to thoroughly read your FARs.  Both ATAs and Control Zones *are*
>> controlled airspace.  

>The original poster is correct w/r ATAs.  More precisely, ATAs per se are
>neither controlled airspace nor uncontrolled airspace, in the same sense
>that a peach is neither fish nor fowl.  

From FAR 1.1:

   GENERAL DEFINITIONS
      [...]
      "Controlled Airspace" means airspace designated as a continental
      control area, control area, control zone, terminal control area,
      or transition area, within which some or all aircraft may be subject
      to air traffic control.
>                                                              If an ATA is
>in the middle of nowhere with no form of controlled airspace (CZ, ARSA,
>etc.) encompassing it, then the VFR pilot is not subject to controlled
>airspace weather requirements.  

From a lawyer's viewpoint, that's correct.  An ATA is not in and of itself
controlled airspace according to the FARs.  In real life, however, the 
overwhelming majority of the ATA's (at least in the US) are within
control zones, so for practical purposes you might as well treat an ATA
as being in controlled airspace.

(As an aside: doesn't this sound like the kind of question the FAA loves
to put on written exams?)

I seem to recall Pete Campbell saying that he had found one airport 
in North Dakota or Montana which had an ATA but no CZ.  Can anyone on
the net offer a specific example of an ATA which is *not* enclosed 
within controlled airspace?

Joe Morris
Newsgroups: rec.aviation
From: jeq@i88.isc.com (Jonathan E. Quist)
Subject: Re: Kerry saves me $1800
Organization: INTERACTIVE Systems Corporation, Naperville, IL
Distribution: na
Date: Thu, 30 Jul 1992 16:32:07 GMT

In article <1992Jul29.224531.279012@cs.cmu.edu> dst+@cs.cmu.edu (Dave Touretzky) writes:
>PS: the plane will be flyable with the damaged trunnion, so I won't be
>grounded for 3 months.  But with the damaged trunnion there is no longer any
>protection against oversteering, or even of turning too sharply with the
>rudder pedals.  The FBO who *probably* did the damage has decided they will
>not tow my airplane until the trunnion has been replaced; they're going to
>push it around by hand for the next 3 months.  Sorry, guys.

Oh, they'll wait until you have a part manufactured to order and installed
before they'll risk breaking the same part again?  Gee, thanks!

:')



(Hi folks.  Yes, I'm back lurking again, after a 2 year hiatus in
 rec.motorcycles.)
-- 
Jonathan E. Quist                              INTERACTIVE Systems Corporation
jeq@i88.isc.com  '71 CL450-K4 "Gleep", DoD #094        Naperville, IL
        There are many things a person should experience in a lifetime.
       Among them are an infant's first cry, and an infant's first laugh.
Newsgroups: rec.aviation
From: lmiller@aero.org (Lawrence H. Miller)
Subject: Re: Coffee cups in the cockpit (Re: A320 yarns)
Organization: The Aerospace Corporation, El Segundo, CA
Date: Tue, 28 Jul 1992 17:02:34 GMT

In article <1992Jul27.124325.10642@bony1.bony.com> richieb@bony1.bony.com (Richard Bielak) writes:
>In article <1992Jul26.154142.17373@sctc.com> beede@sctc.com (Mike Beede) writes:
>>bcoleman@hayes.com (Bill Coleman) writes:
>
>>I think it unlikely properly-trained pilots would get in a tug-of-war
>>with the computer, since that would be stupid.  I find it more likely
>>they could get in trouble because their mental model of the aircraft
>>was not the same as reality (i.e., they think throttles are off,
>>really they're at 110%, or some such).

>
>This is *precisely* the problem. 
>
>There was a China Airlines 747 which did a roll followed by a 20,000
>foot dive for that reason. When the airplane was crusing at 30,000
>feet one of its outboard engines flame-out. The autopilot applied
>whatever controls were needed to handle the resulting yaw. To restart
>the engine, the 747 had to descent to a lower altitude.
>
>When the captain took over from the autopilot he didn't expect the
>control forces to be what they were and the airplane got away from
>him. 

	This was a very interesting event, and I urge everyone to
	read the NTSB accident report.  It's far more complex, and
	quite a bit different, than Richard reports.  And also
	very fascinating.

	The report is NTSB report number NTSB/AAR-86/03.

-- 
Larry Miller		The Aerospace Corporation
PO Box 92957		LA, CA 90009-2957
lmiller@aero.org	310-336-5597
(4 line .sig: keeps the .sig police happy)
Newsgroups: rec.aviation
From: berry@athos.pei.com (Berry Kercheval)
Subject: Re: LVK closed?
Reply-To: berry@pei.com
Organization: Protocol Engines, Inc., Mt. View, California
Distribution: ba
Date: Thu, 23 Jul 1992 22:30:22 GMT

>>>>> On 23 Jul 92 18:02:28 GMT, reece@eco.twg.com (Reece R. Pollack) said:

Reece> In article <JKF.92Jul21164002@frisky.Franz.COM>, jkf@Franz.COM (Sean Foderaro) writes:
Reece> |>Livermore CA [LVK]: July NOTAM #6:
Reece> |>      High speed aircraft surface - 15000 2 nautical mile radius 18 nautical
Reece> |>      miles on the 080 degree radial of Oakland CA [OAK VOR] avoidance advised
Reece> |>      effective the 24th at 3:00pm PDT (2200Z) - 2300
Reece> |>Livermore CA [LVK]: July NOTAM #5:
Reece> |>      Airport closed effective the 23rd at 11:30am PDT (1830Z) - 2030

Reece> Sounds like an airshow to me. I saw very similar NOTAMs for NAS Willow Grove
Reece> the day they held an airshow.


Yes.  The 'wings for charity' annual airshow takes place this weekend
-- 25 and 26 July.  The airport is typically closed for short times
one or two days before the show proper for 1) practice sessions and 2)
press demonstrations and 3) a mini-airshow for local disabled kids.

  --berry (home base: LVK)
--
Berry Kercheval :: berry@pei.com :: Protocol Engines, Inc.  Mt. View, CA
"And there's more where that came from!"
From: scott@hplvec.LVLD.HP.COM (Scott Turner)
Date: Mon, 27 Jul 1992 19:41:47 GMT
Subject: Re: Good pictures, was:  prevalence of engine failures
Organization: Hewlett-Packard Co., Loveland, CO
Newsgroups: rec.aviation

In rec.aviation, greg@octopus.dpsi.com (Gregory R. Travis) writes:

>dst+@cs.cmu.edu (Dave Touretzky) writes:

>>  GA pilots can expect to average 1 engine failure per 1,000 hours of flying.

>Remember, folks, this guy flys behind Continentals.  TSIO-360s at that.
>He's bound to have a very warped sense of engine reliability.

>(Mega :-)'s for the humor challenged)

First off, despite the smileys you just knew I had to say something
didn't you Greg :-) ?

But seriously, (ya, right) I used to really let comments like this bug me.
Till finally having read the umpteenth Av Consumer article bashing my
TSIO-360, and heaping lavish praise on Mooneys powered by Lycoming
IO-360's vengeance finally became mine (heh, heh, heh.)  Seems their
'201's engine fell victim to the dreaded Lycoming spalling camshaft
disease necessitating an early major.

It all boils down to how you prefer your engine failures.  Do you like
your valves to burn (Continental) or stick (Lycoming), your crankcase to
crack (Continental) or your camshaft to spall (Lycoming) etc. etc. etc.

Like Greg, lotsa smileys for those that take these things to seriously.


Scott Turner  scott@hpisla.LVLD.HP.COM
HP VXI Systems Division
Turbo Arrow N2134N  "Baby"
From: shu@cs.purdue.EDU (Lih-Chyun Shu)
Newsgroups: rec.aviation
Subject: air traffic control/collision avoidance
Keywords: air traffic control
Date: 31 Jul 92 16:08:08 GMT
Organization: Department of Computer Science, Purdue University

Dear Netters:

I am looking for information/reference on air traffic
control/collision avoidance. I would appreciate receiving any
information from you. Thanks in advance.
-- 
Lihchyun Shu                  e-mail : shu@cs.purdue.edu
Dept. of Computer Sciences
Purdue University
West Lafayette, IN 47907
Newsgroups: rec.aviation
From: dela@me.rochester.edu (Del Armstrong)
Subject: Re: Rudder pedals while driving???
Reply-To: dela@ee.rochester.edu (Del Armstrong)
Organization: University of Rochester - Dept of Electrical Engineering
Date: Tue, 21 Jul 1992 13:30:19 GMT

In article <1992Jul21.023627.4280@microsoft.com>, peted@microsoft.com (Peter Duniho) writes:
|>In article <1992Jul15.184938.10856@pixel.kodak.com> polvino@ssd.kodak.com (Joe Polvino) writes:
|>>Has anyone else noticed this or any other flying action which kept on going
|>>even after getting out of the plane (like reaching for the mike, or looking
|>>for the gear switch when pulling up your driveway)?
|>>
|> [...]
|>But,
|>wouldn't you know it?  That little event had shaken me up enough to
|>reach for the turn signal as I turned my base leg!

I imagine many of us had to fight the urge to steer the plane with the
yoke while taxiing around. But the plane/car confusion that I had the
hardest time shaking was the urge to check my rear view mirror while
taxiing around.

"Damm, that Gulfstream is tailgating me again"


	Del Armstrong	

	Systems & Networking Staff - Dept of EE and ME
	University of Rochester, Rochester, NY
	Internet: 	dela@ee.rochester.edu
	UUCP:		...!rochester!ur-valhalla!dela

"If God had meant for us to use computers, (s)he would 	have given us
only two fingers to count with."

Newsgroups: rec.aviation
From: ST402421@brownvm.brown.edu (Chris Paine)
Subject: Handheld antenna and otherwise
Organization: Brown University
Date: Fri, 24 Jul 1992 03:45:46 GMT

Well, I don't fly A320s, or roll 747s (:.  I own a Warrior :).  And I
got to wondering about why external antennas are reputed to work so much
better than rubber duckys on handheld radios.  So I made some
measurments:  What follows are data on one 1976 PA28-161, with two
Collins VHF 250 comm radios, the associated airframe-mounted antennae,
and one STS 7600VOR handheld transciver (orphaned).

I procured the use of a Standing-Wave Ratio (SWR) meter [Swan Electronic
model SWR-1], and measured the VSWR of each transmitter into each of the
three antennae and into a 50 ohm (resistive) termination:  data follow:

        VSWR at 120, 125, 130, 135 MHz

            Ant 1    Ant 2     rubber     50 ohm
                               ducky
Comm 1
  120         1.2      1.5       2.4         1.4
  125         1.1      1.5      ~5           1.5
  130         1.1      1.2      >6           1.5
  135         1.1      1.1      ~5           1.5

Comm 2
  120         1.1      1.3       2.7         1.4
  125         1.2      1.5      ~4           1.5
  130         1.2      1.3      ~5           1.5
  135         1.2      1.2      ~5           1.5

  STS
  120         1.0      1.1       1.5         1.3
  125         1.0      1.4       1.5         1.3
  130         1.1      1.1       2.8         1.4
  135         1.2      1.1      ~4           1.4
                            (meter scaled
                             only to 3)

What does it all mean?  Well, I'll take a stab at interpretation:

1)  The all transmitters have approx. constant output impedance.
    All are spec'ed at 50 ohms; possibly my resistive termination
    (just a 5W power resistor soldered to a BNC) has some reactance
    in the RF;  this would explain the SWR > 1 in all cases.

2)  The rubber ducky is good only at the lower end of the VHF band.
    Not too surprising when you consider its just a coil of wire.
    Also, it cannot handle the higher power (~20 W) of the VHF 250s.

3)  The installed antennae are quite good:  The worst they do is a
    VSWR of 1.5, which is a coupling efficiency of 96%.

So it appears that coupling into one of the airframe-mounted antennae
(or having a third installed) would be quite beneficial to handheld
operation.

Comments from avionics gurus are appreciated.

                                        CP
From: BCLEWIS@LSTC2VM.stortek.com (Brian Lewis)
Newsgroups: rec.aviation
Subject: Re: Small Children in GA aircraft
Date: 28 Jul 92 14:48:11 GMT
Organization: StorageTek SW Engineering

Gary -
 
"Taking the headset off" seems to be a stage children grow out of.  A
couple of months ago our two-year-old *refused* to let me put a headset
on her; now she'll wear one without complaint.  Same story with her
older sister two years ago.
 
An intercom is essential.  Once the child realizes that the only way he
can communicate with you is through the headset, he becomes more amenable
to wearing it.  Also, have your son try it out at home.  Plug the intercom's
"tape input" into a casette player, or the television.  Then when you get
to the airplane, he's already used to wearing the headset.
 
Getting a pilot's license is especially useful for folks who live in
Cleveland.  Flying enables you to get more quickly to exotic locations
such as Columbus and Cincinnati!
 
Brian (formerly a Buckeye, from the southwest part of the state)
From: FISHLM@SNYBUFVA.BITNET (Lydia Fish)
Newsgroups: rec.aviation
Subject: Black Woman Aviation Pioneer Dies
Date: 22 Jul 92 15:21:00 GMT
Reply-To: World War II Discussion List <WWII-L@UBVM.cc.buffalo.edu>


        CHICAGO (UPI) -- Willa Brown Chappell, the first black woman to earn a
commercial pilot's license in the United States, died at Bernard
Mitchell Hospital. She was 86.
        Chappell, who died Saturday, became interested in flying while
working toward a master's degree at Northwestern University. She studied
aviation between semesters at the former Aeronautical University and
earned a pilot's certificate in 1939 -- the first black woman to do so.
        The same year she formed the National Airmen's Association of America
-- the first black aviators groups -- and she and husband Cornelius Coffey
opened the Coffey School of Aeronautics. It was the first such school
owned and operated by blacks.
        The school in 1940, at the request of the War Department, conducted
an experimental program to train blacks as combat pilots, leading to
establishment of the 99th Pursuit Squadron at Tuskegee Institute.
        In 1942 she added another first to her list when she became the first
black woman to serve in the Army Air Corps' Civil Air Patrol.
        The flight school closed after the war and Chappell returned to
teaching, retiring from Westinghouse High School in the 1970s.
        Chappell, who was born in Glasgow, Ky., and received a bachelor's
degree from Indiana State Teachers College, moved to Chicago in 1932 to
study at Northwestern.
        She is survived by three brothers.
        Visitation is Thursday at the A.R. Leak Funeral Home and burial is to
be Friday at the Lincoln Cemetery in Worth.