HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: rjv@a2.cim.cdc.com (Rene Valdes)
Newsgroups: alt.uu.lang.esperanto.misc,soc.culture.esperanto
Subject: Re: More on Esperanto pronounciation
Date: 12 Nov 92 00:03:10 GMT
Reply-To: rjv@a2.cim.cdc.com (Rene Valdes)
Followup-To: alt.uu.lang.esperanto.misc

In article <1992Nov10.212613.2995@elroy.jpl.nasa.gov>, urban@sideshow.jpl.nasa.gov (Michael Urban) writes:
|> I have three basic rules of thumb for Esperanto pronunciation.
|> 
|> 1. Someone from a random country that listens to your Esperanto speech
|>    should not be able to tell where you come from.  The American
|>    animal-growl `r', the British vanishing `r', and the French guttural
|>    `r' are all partial give-aways.  But what to pick?  Ah.  Rule 2:
|> 
|> 2. When in doubt, think theatric-Italian, but leave out the hand
|>    gestures.  When that doesn't help, think `stage Transylvanian'
|>    so that `kvin' is pronounced like Bela Lugosi saying `I vant
|>    (good vowel there) to see the kveen!'
|> 
|> 3. Letters should be clear and unambiguous.  As Pierre points out,
|>    Esperanto, unlike many languages, does not distinguish aspiration, but
|>    does distinguish voicing.  The goal is to make `p' as distinct as
|>    possible from `b'.  So if it helps to aspirate the `t' a bit in `meti'
|>    to keep it from sounding too much like `medi', by all means do so!
|> 
|> The vowels should be clearly distinguished.  Americans
|> tend to schwaficate all our unstressed vowels, and when we do, we
|> violate Rule 1.  In Esperanto, where that final unstressed vowel can
|> contain critical grammatical information like tense, it is even more
|> important.  

I like the above rules very much.  I think they get to the gist of Esperanto
pronounciation.  However, I would say  that achieving an accentless
Esperanto as described under 1 is practically impossible.  People will
have more or less of an accent depending on their native tongue, their
background, and other factors, just as they will in any other language.
The advantage with Esperanto is that it does not matter, because as
long as sounds are distinct and clearly understood, your are speaking
good Esperanto.

One thing I would recommend, though, is trying to pronounce the "r"
as in Italian.  For Spanish speakers, an Italian "r", and even a Russian
"r", is practically the same as their own.  Such an "r" with variations
that are practically imperceptible to the average person appears to be 
used also in other romance and slavic languages.  And a last point that 
can't be emphasized too much is the importance of clearly distinguishing 
unstressed vowels.  (Italian is also a very good model for this!)  They do 
contain, basically without exception, very important grammatical and 
semantic information.  If you blurred all unstressed vowels into some 
kind of schwa, your Esperanto would be totally unintelligible!

    Rene J. Valdes              |     rjv@a2.cim.cdc.com       | 
Newsgroups: alt.uu.lang.esperanto.misc,soc.culture.esperanto
From: higa@lclark.edu (Keith Higa)
Subject: Re: U`
Organization: Lewis & Clark College, Portland OR
Date: Fri, 6 Nov 1992 17:48:32 GMT

In article <1992Nov6.164638.16718@dartvax.dartmouth.edu> J.Theodore.Schuerzinger@dartmouth.edu (J. Theodore Schuerzinger) writes:
>I'm just starting to learn Esperanto, and I like the idea of
>introducing a 'word of the day' to the net.  I have a question, though,
>regarding something else.  I think I know how the letters c^, g^, h^,
>j^, and s^ are supposed to be pronounced, but what about u`?
>
>--Ted Schuerzinger
>email: .zed@Dartmouth.EDU
>"I should have realized it would be bad vodka when all the label said
>was 'Russian Vodka'."

U' is meant to be pronounced like a short "oo" when it follows a vowel.
It corresponds roughly to English "w", and is, like j, a semi-vowel.  
Like "j" it forms diphthongs, but "u'" almost always follows a vowel.

The most common usage of u' is with "a", e.g. "hodiau'" (today).  "au'" is 
pronounced like "ow" in "cow."

A less common form is "eu'" as in "Eu'ropo" (Europe).  Pronounce the "e"
as you would in Esperanto then follow it with a short "oo."  "Eu'" sort of
sounds like the sound "airw" in the word "fairway" except you do not sound
the "r".

-- 
Keith K. Higa                         Lewis & Clark College    
higa@lclark.edu                       Portland, OR, USA
In a hierarchy each member tends to rise to his/her level of incompetence.
                                 --The Peter Principle
Xref: sparky alt.uu.lang.esperanto.misc:28 soc.culture.esperanto:2043
From: J.Theodore.Schuerzinger@dartmouth.edu (J. Theodore Schuerzinger)
Newsgroups: alt.uu.lang.esperanto.misc,soc.culture.esperanto
Subject: U`
Date: 6 Nov 92 16:46:38 GMT
Organization: Dartmouth College, Hanover, NH
X-Posted-From: InterNews1.0a5@newshost.dartmouth.edu

I'm just starting to learn Esperanto, and I like the idea of
introducing a 'word of the day' to the net.  I have a question, though,
regarding something else.  I think I know how the letters c^, g^, h^,
j^, and s^ are supposed to be pronounced, but what about u`?

--Ted Schuerzinger
email: .zed@Dartmouth.EDU
"I should have realized it would be bad vodka when all the label said
was 'Russian Vodka'."
From: etg10@cl.cam.ac.uk (Edmund Grimley-Evans)
Newsgroups: alt.uu.lang.esperanto.misc
Subject: Re: U` => Declension cases in Esperanto
Date: 9 Nov 92 19:11:53 GMT
Organization: U of Cambridge Computer Lab, UK

|> I feel that Esperanto needs to be explained as having four or five
|> cases really, namely, Nominative, Accusative, Genative, Dative and
|> Ablative (as Latin, but with Vocative omitted, and possibly distinguishing
|> between Dative and Ablative.)

Do you mean from the point of view of an adequate linguistic description, or from
the point of view of teaching the language?

I disagree in both cases!
From: esz001@cck.coventry.ac.uk (Will Overington)
Newsgroups: alt.uu.lang.esperanto.misc
Subject: Re: U` => Declension cases in Esperanto
Date: 9 Nov 92 12:24:05 GMT
Organization: Coventry University

In article <1992Nov8.192414.16370@lclark.edu> higa@lclark.edu (Keith Higa) writes:
>In article <1992Nov6.205612.28827@clark.dgim.doc.ca> krys@dgim.doc.ca writes:
>>In article 28786@lclark.edu, higa@lclark.edu (Keith Higa) writes:>

... [stuff about hodiau^, here omitted]

>
>>BTW, what are the Esperanto equivalents for "me", "you", "him", etc., as in:
>>
>>                 "Hodiau'" estas la nova vorto por .... ?
>
>OK, this requires some explanation.
>You probably know about the nominative and accusative cases (i.e. no "n"
>on the end, or with "n" on the end).  Nouns and pronouns are declined in
>this way.
>So I=mi, me=min
>   you (as subj.)=vi, you (as obj.)=vin
>   he=li, him=lin
>   she=s^i, her=s^in
>
>The accusative case is used primarily for direct objects.  For example, "Mi
>ac^etis nau' pomojn" the "n" at the end of "pomojn" signifies that "pomoj"
>is the direct object.  There are other uses of the accusative form, but its
>primary use is marking direct objects.
>
>With regard to prepositions, however, you use the *nominative* case after a
>preposition.  So "...por mi," *not* "...por min."
>
This has always caused much confusion, I feel.

I did some Latin, and just a little German years ago, so think
of there being six cases, as in Latin, or four as in German.

I feel that Esperanto needs to be explained as having four or five
cases really, namely, Nominative, Accusative, Genative, Dative and
Ablative (as Latin, but with Vocative omitted, and possibly distinguishing
between Dative and Ablative.)

Now, I fully accept that those people who have not had to wade through
Latin may well not have a clue what I am writing about, but I feel that
the concept of Genative, Dative and Ablative are well worth grasping,
then being told that the endings for the Genative, Dative and Ablative
cases in Esperanto are exactly the same as the endings for the
Nominative case and that the fact that they are Genative, Dative or
Ablative is signalled by the use of an appropriate preposition.

This might at first sight seem to be a long way round, but I feel
that having three nouns or pronouns in a sentence and being able
to say that one is nominative, one is accusative and one is dative
is a lot better than thinking that two are nominative and one is
accusative!

If people agree with me on this approach, maybe we can draw up a
piece of learning material.
Newsgroups: alt.uu.lang.esperanto.misc
From: amichail@r-node.gts.org (Ashraf Michail)
Subject: Future of Esperanto
Organization: R-node Public Access UNIX Information System (416-249-5366)
Date: Tue, 10 Nov 1992 22:50:25 GMT

Hi,
I'm looking for information about 'artificial languages' (like
Esperanto).  I'm conducting a study on the future of these
types of languages.  I would appreciate any statistics, articles,
references, or comments on the issue.
 
   If you are sending me something, PLEASE SEND IT TO:
 
                   amichail@bcr2.uwaterloo.ca
From: anon-1242@twwells.com (stranger)
Newsgroups: alt.sexual.abuse.recovery
Subject: does anybody want ME?
Date: 12 Nov 92 20:32:56 GMT
Organization: Anonymous Posting Service at twwells.com

To answer the question in your Subject: yes.  All of us who are personally
encouraged by your posting appreciate what you have done.

I was told earlier this year that "communication is an act of love".  I 
disagree with the unqualified nature of this statement, yet recognize it 
has a wisdom far beyond the ordinary, and like to think that it applies to 
your posting.



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Newsgroups: alt.sexual.abuse.recovery
From: anon-1016@twwells.com (Prisoner)
Newsgroups: alt.sexual.abuse.recovery
Subject: Re: does anybody want ME?
Date: 12 Nov 92 23:27:36 GMT
Organization: Anonymous Posting Service at twwells.com
X-Email-Accepted: yes

All Me of Us writes:
: It was wonderful to see your name in a posting today.  I'm not kidding;
: I really mean it.  I think you know me well enough by now to know that
: I don't say things like that casually, and I don't lie.

I know. Thanks.

: Welcome back to the world, such as it is.

We'll see if I can stay back. I feel an awful lot keeping me from
posting. There are some things I just have to say and just
can't....if I do, there'll be yet another round of unhappiness on
the group. What to do?

:                                            And thank you for being
: so real.

Now, if I could just figure out how to be real when there are real
live people around....

:           I've told you before, I don't know why, but I feel connected
: to you, and, yes, at some level that I don't understand, I find myself
: liking you.

Thanks. I don't know why either.

: That's all I can say for now; feel free to call if you want to talk.

Funny thing, just the other day I was thinking that I'd call and
say, more or less, "hi, no crisis this time, what's up with you?"
It wasn't more than a few hours later that the shit started to
hit the fan....I don't know what to make of that either.


Prisoner



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From: tdelaney@penn.Gwinnett.COM (ted delaney)
Newsgroups: alt.sexual.abuse.recovery
Subject: Re: bob--MPD stuff
Date: Mon, 09 Nov 92 22:41:42 EST

anon-1259@twwells.com (Kate) writes:
> Bob--
> I am MPD, I was diagnosed at a center that specializes in dissociative
> disorders after days of psych testing and interviews.  
> I'm willing to talk (and so are some of the others).
> Email me if you like!
> Take care.

Bob (sorry to but in, but saw the message as well)

I too, am MPD- will be glad to help if I can....e-mail me if you wish...

Ted, and friends...
From: anon-1326@twwells.com (The Captain)
Newsgroups: alt.sexual.abuse.recovery
Subject: Posting to asar
Date: 13 Nov 92 02:14:19 GMT
Organization: Anonymous Posting Service at twwells.com
X-Email-Accepted: yes

For all of you out there on the 'Godiva' group who are about to get cut
off from that anonymous server-- can any of you connect to
anon-asar@twwells.com?  If so, you can still post to ASAR!  I think if
I end this message with a double line, it will spew out a list of all
the twwells addresses, so here goes....

The Captain


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From: werner@soe.berkeley.edu (John Werner)
Newsgroups: alt.sexual.abuse.recovery
Subject: Re: teachers and scool
Followup-To: alt.sexual.abuse.recovery
Date: 6 Nov 1992 21:51:39 GMT
Organization: UC Berkeley School of Education
Distribution: world
NNTP-Posting-Host: 128.32.157.31

In article <1992Nov6.190410.15750@den.mmc.com>, stote@tomcat.den.mmc.com
(M. Stote) wrote:
> 
> Boy you hit a BIG sore spot for me !!!!  
>[...]
> Basically you have two groups struggling for power who are in large part
> unconcerned for the children.
>[...]
> and them becoming a life-long victim.  And I think that the schools can be an
> important souce of support for children.  One place where they can find love
> and understanding from a caring adult.

It's a big sore spot for me too.  I've been starting to get back some bad,
repressed, childhood memories lately, and a lot of them involve school.  My
problem is being incredibly shy, lonely, and afraid.  Among the bad
memories are teachers who thought I was stupid when I was just bored, a
kindergarden teacher who thought I was stupid when I turned out to be
color-blind, and a teacher who decided I worked too slowly, so I had to do
classwork during recess and couldn't play with the other kids.

[**** minor SPOILER, maybe ****]

I've got a few other memories that sound like they came straight out of a
"Life in Hell" cartoon: kids being tied to their desks, and someone being
spanked in front of the class with his pants pulled down.  I don't remember
any of these ever happening to me, fortunately.

But I don't think the power struggles in today's school systems have that
much to do with it, at least not on a day-to-day basis.  If a teacher
doesn't understand kids, or doesn't like them, or doesn't care, a better
system isn't going to do much good (unless it fires the teacher, of
course.)  Classroom atmosphere and "love and understanding from a caring
adult" are what I think are really important.  I eventually ran across some
nice, caring teachers in the same school system as the awful ones. 
Unfortunately, it was too late to do me any good.

> But we've got to somehow change the system so that there isn't this polarity 
> of power sources fighting against each other!!  I just don't know how?

The best ideas I've heard involve taking away the power from the power
sources.  Empowering teachers is nice, but you also need to empower
students and parents with some kind of "choice".  If a teacher is
universally hated by students and parents (some of mine were), he or she
should be fired.

This is getting farther and farther away from "sexual abuse recovery", so I
think I'll stop now.

[I should note that even though my .sig says "School of Education", I'm a
Mac programmer, not an educator.]

--
John Werner                         werner@soe.berkeley.edu
UC Berkeley School of Education     510-642-9651
From: anon-1357@twwells.com (Silver Tiger)
Newsgroups: alt.sexual.abuse.recovery
Subject: Saskatchewan
Date: 7 Nov 92 20:03:05 GMT
Organization: Anonymous Posting Service at twwells.com


Dear 1366;

    I am from Saskatchewan.  It is good to hear from people close by,
and kara, good to hear you might be moving to Saskatoon! :)

    Please feel free to mail my anon-account, I think I've "told" this
service that I accept mail.  

    Living through another day,

Silver Tiger



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From: anon-1368@twwells.com (the Tin Man)
Newsgroups: alt.sexual.abuse.recovery
Subject: please IGNORE this TEST post
Date: 10 Nov 92 17:26:25 GMT
Organization: Anonymous Posting Service at twwells.com


REALLY this is a TEST post.

the TIN MAN



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Newsgroups: alt.sexual.abuse.recovery
From: anon-1372@twwells.com (Sierra)
Newsgroups: alt.sexual.abuse.recovery
Subject: scared
Date: 9 Nov 92 22:19:46 GMT
Organization: Anonymous Posting Service at twwells.com
X-Email-Accepted: yes

Hi you all this is Sierra again.  I am really freaking out and scared
all the time.  I keep thinking my father is going to come and find me
although I know he's several states away I still keep thinking he's
right around the corner.   I really don't know what to do or how to keep
going and the thought of just ending it all and not being scared ever
again is starting to be more and more attractive.  But part of me knows
that wouldn't be a good idea.

Help somebody, I'm so scared.

--Sierra



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Newsgroups: alt.sexual.abuse.recovery
From: cloister@stein.u.washington.edu (cloister bell)
Subject: Re: does anybody want ME?
Organization: University of Washington
Date: Thu, 12 Nov 1992 23:01:00 GMT

does anyone want you?  well, the way you define the question, no.  you say so
yourself.  but by the same logic, no one wants *me* either.  they just want
whatever sort of interaction they can get from me.  my users want my knowledge,
my boss wants my time, my girlfriend wants whatever it is that she feels when
we're together.  do i want *her*, well, only in as much as she makes me feel
things which i like.  do i want my boss and my job?  no, i want the money he
and it give me.  that's life, prisoner.  that's the way humans interact with
eachother.  you are defining the question so that it can't possibly be answered
yes.  you are setting yourself up for rejection.  no one can possibly want
anyone the way you want to be wanted.  imagine this:  "i want you."  "what
*for*?"  it's the obvious and inescapable question following the statement.
there is always a why.  always always always.  it may be a trivial why, but
it's there.  kids discover this very early.  everyone knows that kids love to
play the "why?"  game.  there is always a why, and yet you, prisoner, will not
be happy until you find someone who wants you without a why.  you'll never find
that.  imho, it doesn't exist.  do not be confused by statements like "you make
me happy".  they really mean "what you do makes me happy."  so just because you
can't find someone who really means "you make me happy" or "i want you", don't
get discouraged.  no one finds that, and yet many people manage to be quite
happy with "what you do makes me happy" and "i want the kind of interaction we
have together."
-- 
+-------------------------------------------------+---------------------------+
|tactical nuclear sdi stealth nsafood signature.  | cloister@u.washington.edu |
+-------------------------------------------------+---------------------------+
Newsgroups: alt.sexual.abuse.recovery
From: tmohrle@nyx.cs.du.edu (Taylor Mohrle)
Subject: Re: Response to Ed 
X-Disclaimer: Nyx is a public access Unix system run by the University
	of Denver for the Denver community.  The University has neither
	control over nor responsibility for the opinions of users.
Organization: Nyx, Public Access Unix at U. of Denver Math/CS dept.
Date: Tue, 10 Nov 92 22:01:22 GMT

In article <10NOV199209203035@lims01.lerc.nasa.gov> aatresa@lims01.lerc.nasa.gov (Teresa Kline) writes:
>It is my guess that, since my name was quite prominently displayed in this 
>message, Ed was trying to draw me out.  Well, I'm here.  And I have a 
>few things to say.  All those who can't handle a strong response to Ed, 
>please hit 'n' now.  

Teresa, I read the original posts, your response and while I don't
personally know you I do personally know Ed, and I don't seem to
get that he was "trying to draw you out" from his post.

   [ Most of the strong response deleted for bandwith ]

>instead of trying to explain further.  In other words, it *appears* as if you 
>feel that you know everything there is to know and have no need to explain 
>yourself to others.  Since we are survivors and you are not, it would seem 

I must say I've never know Ed to be unwilling to explain ANYTHING :)


>that perhaps we know more than you about survivors' issues, and that you 
>might learn more by *listening* to us.  IMHO.  

Teresa, please do not take this personally but I feel very strongly about
what I think you mean in the above.  I am well aware that each person's
experience on the journey of life, survivor or not, is a unique set of
situations that can never be fully experienced by another no matter how
close.  I have trouble with what you have said in the sense that  I beleive
IMHO that you are over-generalizing. Now I will grant that there are aspects
of a lady that was abused frequently that I will never fully understand.
I will not, however, grant that I cannot identify and understand the feelings
of helplessness, hopelessness, mental confusion, etc that I have experienced.

I would not even grant that any TWO people that have suffered the same
kind of "abuse" (whatever it may have been) could fully "understand" the
complete experiences of the other.  I feel that we all relate on the basis
of our unique experiences and this is why I have some reservation about
your statments above.  I am unaware of a list of qualifications for 
attempting to give support to members of this group (if there is one
please email me a copy and if I don't fit I promise I will go away quietly).

Also, most of the things that you seemed to have taken exception with are
quotes or paraphrases from books in Ed's library, the authors really do
write like that.


>
>-- Teresa
>
>		Life -- just for the FUN of it!!!!

Ed, if ya wanna talk, you know where to find me.
Teresa, if I have misunderstood what you intended, you are welcome to tell
me so (flames in email, please)

- Taylor