HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: rogerk@queernet.org (Roger B.A. Klorese)
Subject: Re: Soc.Motss.* / Automoderation.
Date: Tue, 22 Dec 1992 00:14:09 GMT
Organization: QueerNet

In article <1992Dec21.215857.6538@netcom.com> jfh@netcom.com (Jack Hamilton) writes:
>In article <BzLpMK.M5K@queernet.org> rogerk@queernet.org (Roger B.A. Klorese) writes:
>>
>>Most moderated groups are low-volume and low-immediacy, neither of which
>>applies to this group.
>
>Isn't part of the idea to make it a lower-volume group?
>
>I don't think I'd call soc.motss a high-immediacy group.  

I thought part of the idea was to make it quicker and easier to read.
As for lowering the total volume, do you prefer to tell some people
to stop posting because there's too much traffic, or to impose a posting
quota?  Soc.motss' volume has grown because its community has grown;
attempting to reduce the volume will silence some or mute many, and I
think either is a terrile idea.

As for splits, labels, and other ideas that will make motss easier to
read, I applaud the effort and would be glad to assist.  (I also applaud any
renaming that would make us easier to find; that goal seems incompatible
with those of the reduce-the-volume folks, as it will likely add readers
and posters.)

>>All this jabber and conspiracy seems like an awful lot of effort to go to
>>to get rid of a few minor annoyances.  In fact, I'm not sure I'd want to
>>face a net, or a soc.motss, without a Clayton or two.
>
>It's not conspiracy, it's all being done right out in the open. 

This part of it is; free-93 is certainly not.
-- 
ROGER B.A. KLORESE                                              +1 415 ALL-ARFF
rogerk@unpc.QueerNet.ORG              {ames,decwrl,pyramid}!sgiblab!unpc!rogerk
"Normal is not something to aspire to, it's something to get away from."
                                                                   -- J. Foster
Newsgroups: news.groups,alt.messianic
From: kepley@cs.unca.edu (Brad Kepley)
Subject: Re: talk.politics.usa.conservative (Was: Re: RFD: talk.politics.patriot)
Organization: University of North Carolina at Asheville
Date: Sat, 2 Jan 1993 01:56:35 GMT


>conservative is an overbroad term

The problem is yours though.  "Conservatives", "Romantics", "Liberals", 
"Moderns", and "Totalitarians" are terms that have been used for a 
century or more to describe certain kinds of political thought.  It's 
pretty useless to argue against the ordering of political thought.  
There simply has to be some way to converse about political things 
without worrying all the time that you might be limiting people, 
pigeon-holeing them, etc.  It's always assumed (by anyone who really
knows what he's talking about) that within these broad groups there 
are some strong differences but that we can still make some general
statements about them that define them.
Xref: sparky news.groups:24823 rec.arts.books:23013
From: ah@dunaad.co.uk (Alan Hunter)
Newsgroups: news.groups,rec.arts.books
Subject: Re: *Any* kind of r.a.b split, or at least a *serious* discussion
Date: 22 Dec 92 10:29:58 GMT
Organization: Johnson Hunter Limited

Jack Campin writes:

>
>Yeah.  Conversations about *books*, however broadly construed, like the one-
>line summary of the group's remit says:
>
>           Books of all genres, and the publishing industry.
>
>That does not stretch to interminable maunderings, however they got started,
>about modal logic and the ethics of sexuality, or the sociology of SAT
>scores, and still less to the CB-like prattle that's built up over the last
>few months which is about nothing in particular except the egos of the
>protagonists.  If you want to do that sort of thing, get an IRC channel for
>it.

	Were it not for the prescence of the unwashed and the half-
	educated, the formless queer and incomplete, the unreasonable
	and absurd, the infinite shapes of the delightful human tadpole,
	the horizon would not wear such a wide grin.

I picked that up out of Hell's Angels by Hunter Thompson many, many years
ago. I don't have a copy now so can't check the original attribution, but
I don't believe they were Thompson's own words. He's a great fund of 4
liners but not like that one.  It sounds like a good thinker, but
not a great writer (Thompson fits in both categories - I suppose that's an
opinion rather than a universal truth. Its right though).

Alan


-- 
Alan Hunter
Johnson Hunter Ltd
Isle of Islay, Scotland
A.Hunter@dunaad.co.uk          fax: +44-496-2336         voice: +44-496-2286
From: dclunie@pax.tpa.com.au (David Clunie)
Newsgroups: news.groups
Subject: Re: RFD: comp.security.email
Date: 25 Dec 1992 23:49:40 GMT
Organization: Her Master's Voice
Distribution: world
Reply-To: dclunie@pax.tpa.com.au
NNTP-Posting-Host: britt.pax.tpa.com.au

In article 1gouiaINN3v2@news.UU.NET, Ran Atkinson <atkinson@itd.nrl.navy.mil> () writes:
>  This is a formal Request for Discussion on creation of a newsgroup
>to discuss electronic mail security and software to provide additional
>security in email.
>
>  The discussions of PGP are really beyond the normal scope of
>sci.crypt and reportedly have had the effect of drowning out the prior
>discussions.  There are sufficient postings on PGP and PEM in existing
>newsgroups to justify creating a separate group for discussions of
>email security.

I would actually suggest a hierarchy rather than a single group, due to the
volume of both legal and technical material which really should be kept
separate ...

   comp.security.email.technical

   comp.security.email.legal

If sufficient traffic develops in the technical group, subdivision by protocol
in to separate groups such as ".pgp", ".pem" and ".misc" might be appropriate.

Some might suggest that the ".legal" group should be renamed or perhaps
subdivided into ".moral", ".philosophical" and perhaps ".totally.uninformed" :)

Perhaps even a "comp.security.email.fan.sternlight" group is necessary !

Seriously though, I think some subdivision is worth discussion, in view of
the resent torrent of non-technical stuff. It seems to be a lot easier to do
this up front, especially in view of the recent bloodletting over splitting
of other groups.

I would also like to see a "comp.security.email.anonymous" group as this is a
personal interest of mine, and the technical discussion is somewhat different
in nature from the general cryptographic stuff. Actually thinking about this
makes me wonder if these groups really belong under comp.security at all and
perhaps would be better off as:

  comp.mail.privacy.technical

  comp.mail.privacy.legal

  comp.mail.anonymous

As there is already a well established mail hierarchy, include a group for
discussion of mime which seems directly relevant to a lot of this.

david
From: hartman@ulogic.UUCP (Richard M. Hartman)
Newsgroups: news.groups
Subject: Re: Give up, Dave, you've lost!
Date: 21 Dec 92 22:41:06 GMT
Organization: negligable

In article <1992Dec17.230509.24454@jato.jpl.nasa.gov> dave@jato.jpl.nasa.gov writes:
>I yelled originally because it got more attention than saying something soft 
>and warm. Now it produces a different effect.

Actually, Dave, it would have been much more productive to try
not yelling first.  I believe we've gone through this particular
set of opinions (as well as everything else) before, so I won't
try and convince you too terribly much.  You seem to have already
decided before your first post that yelling and screaming was the
way to go (I *think* you even said as much (although in different
words) the last time we got on the yelling vs. conversation merry-
go-round....)

I just had to point out that you never gave the other approach a
chance before yelling and screaming, so we'll never really know
how much attention your complaint would have gotten, now will we?

		-Richard Hartman
		hartman@ulogic.COM

=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
"186,000 mi/sec.  Not just a good idea, it's the LAW!"
From: ts@uwasa.fi (Timo Salmi)
Newsgroups: news.groups
Subject: Re: All your postings to this newsgroup might go wasted!
Date: 25 Dec 92 20:00:53 GMT
Organization: University of Vaasa, Finland

In article <1hfmvnINNr0l@apache.dtcc.edu> weave@apache.dtcc.edu (Ken Weaverling) writes:
>In article <1992Dec23.224153.25197@uwasa.fi> ts@uwasa.fi (Timo Salmi) writes:
>>... I suggested in news.groups that the rmgroup delay in the case of
>>renaming newsgroups should be shortened from three months (which I
>>hypothesize is one of the causes for the "debris") to 15 days. 
>
>The problem with this is that if a user who doesn't read news every day
>(there are some out there), go looking for a group that was renamed, and
>find it is gone, may not know what it was renamed to.

Granted, of course.  There are problems with the long 3 month
period, and there are problems with the 15 day suggestion.  The
question is which those problems are and which do we prefer.  The
point I am trying to make is that we should discuss whether the
advantages of a shorter period outweigh the disadvantages or vice
versa. 

One of the advantages of the three month period is that it is the
current practice (= healthy resistance to change), and it certaily
has others, too.  But do they balance the disadvantages like
increasing the probalility of persistent duplication, and the
disruption caused to the replacing newsgroup?

Please let's try to look at this analytically, if we can, since
issues like these are not simple right / wrong situations, but
rather balancing the pros and the cons. 

   All the best, Timo

..................................................................
Prof. Timo Salmi      Co-moderator of comp.archives.msdos.announce
Moderating at garbo.uwasa.fi anonymous FTP archives 128.214.87.1
Faculty of Accounting & Industrial Management; University of Vaasa
Internet: ts@uwasa.fi Bitnet: salmi@finfun   ; SF-65101, Finland
Newsgroups: news.groups
From: chisnall@cosc.canterbury.ac.nz (The Technicolour Throw-up)
Subject: Re: STRAW VOTE ON NAME FOR NATIVE AMERICANS NEWSGROUP
Organization: Computer Science,University of Canterbury,New Zealand
Date: Mon, 21 Dec 1992 09:00:48 GMT

From article <yenamand.724366179@micro>, by yenamand@micro.cs.umn.edu (Murthy Yenamandra):
>>"Aboriginal" clearly distinguishes between the original occupants of
>>the land and other (largely European) "natives" who came later.  It is
>>apparently in frequent use in Canadian media in preference to
>>"Indian."
> 
> To me, "aboriginal" always seemed to be tinged with contempt.

How about soc.culture.autochthon?   Autochthon is precisely the word that
people are looking for here.  Its unambiguous (unlike "native") and free of
derogatory connotations (unlike "aboriginal").  The only thing against it is
that it probably too obscure to most people.

--
Just my two rubber ningis worth.
Name: Michael Chisnall  (chisnall@cosc.canterbury.ac.nz)
I'm not a .signature virus and nor do I play one on tv.
Newsgroups: news.groups,alt.native
From: emcguire@intellection.com (Ed McGuire)
Subject: Re: soc.culture.native
Organization: Intellection, Inc.
Date: Mon, 21 Dec 1992 21:16:20 GMT

In article <1992Dec21.130152.24469@spdcc.com> gst@spdcc.com (Gary S. Trujillo) writes:

   This observation is important, I think.  We need to devise the
   charter in such a way that it becomes very clear that the purpose
   of the newsgroup is not to support discussion of various ethnic
   conflicts.  There are definitions of words like "aboriginal" and
   "indigenous" which come from bodies like the United Nations which
   can be very useful in this regard.

The only "charter" most people will ever see is the newsgroup name,
which is one reason it is important to choose a good one.  Some of
them will see the one-line description from the "newsgroups" file;
very few will ever see the charter from the CFV.  It's too bad that
newsreaders don't display the charter the first time you open a
newsgroup.
-- 
Ed McGuire                   1603 LBJ Freeway, Suite 780
Systems Administrator/       Dallas, Texas 75234
 Member of Technical Staff   214/620-2100, FAX 214/484-8110
Intellection, Inc.           <ed@intellection.com>
Newsgroups: news.groups,alt.native
From: gst@spdcc.com (Gary S. Trujillo)
Subject: Re: soc.culture.native
Organization: S.P. Dyer Computer Consulting
Date: Mon, 21 Dec 1992 13:01:52 GMT

In article <1992Dec20.171317.17017@urartu.sdpa.org>
	dbd@urartu.sdpa.org (David Davidian) writes:

> A problem I see with anything except Native AMERICAN is that every ethnic
> conflict in the universe just might be dumped in a newsgroup with names such
> as soc.culture.native, s.c.aboriginal, etc..

This observation is important, I think.  We need to devise the charter in
such a way that it becomes very clear that the purpose of the newsgroup is
not to support discussion of various ethnic conflicts.  There are definitions
of words like "aboriginal" and "indigenous" which come from bodies like the
United Nations which can be very useful in this regard.

> I feel the native peoples of the Americas should have their newsgroup, if they
> require it, and one that is not ambiguous in character.

The necessary support for such a newsgroup may in fact be forthcoming at
some point in the near future.  However, at the present time, it seems to
many people that there may be greater value in having a forum which permits
and encourages dialogue among various groups of indigenous peoples all
attempting to hold on to their traditions and unique understandings about
the world.  I think it's a matter of timing and creating something initially
which might become the basis for a new effort to create something uniquely
"American" (including subjects of all the Americas, that is), if it is felt
to be needed.

Gary
-- 
    Gary S. Trujillo                             gst@gnosys.svle.ma.us
Somerville, Massachusetts               {wjh12,bu.edu,spdcc,ima,cdp}!gnosys!gst
Newsgroups: news.groups
From: psrc@pegasus.att.com (Paul S R Chisholm)
Subject: Re: Babylon5
Reply-To: psrc@pegasus.att.com (Paul S R Chisholm)
Organization: AT&T Bell Laboratories
Distribution: na
Date: Sun, 3 Jan 1993 02:10:02 GMT
Followup-To: rec.arts.sf.tv
Summary: look in rec.arts.sf.tv, or in the B5 mailing list
Keywords: Babylon 5

In article <Blue-Knight.04p3@bknight.jpr.com> Blue-Knight@bknight.jpr.com (Yury German) writes:
>What is the newsgroup that has all the information about upcoming TV movie
>Babylon5.

The netnews group with the most Babylon 5 discussion is rec.arts.sf.tv.
There was a proposal to create a B5 news group; the discussion period
showed a distinct lack of interest at this time.

There is a mailing list.  To quote from an article recently posted to
rec.arts.sf.tv:

Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.tv
From: techy@iastate.edu (Troy A. Rutter)
Subject: Babylon 5 Mail List

           The Babylon 5 Newsgroup Mail-List (Automated Posting)
           ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

     To request access to the group you can set it up yourself on your
system (ask your administrator how to access a public newsgroup), or
send mail to b5-request@iastate.edu.

     To post an article to the group simply mail b5@iastate.edu.  Your 
"post" will be relayed to all the members on the mailing list.  

   To get some of the past messages from the mailist, as well as the FAQ, 
station guide, Other Roles list,  GIFs, and other assorted goodies... you 
can anonymous FTP to ftp.hyperion.com  /pub/Babylon-5
--
Paul S. R. Chisholm, AT&T Bell Laboratories/EasyLink Services,
att!pegasus!psrc, psrc@pegasus.att.com, AT&T Mail !psrchisholm
I'm not speaking for the company, I'm just speaking my mind.
Newsgroups: news.groups
From: jfh@netcom.com (Jack Hamilton)
Subject: Re: SAS on UNIX (where to post?)
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services (408 241-9760 guest)
Date: Tue, 22 Dec 1992 17:16:18 GMT

In article <Dec.21.21.29.19.1992.18544@gandalf.rutgers.edu> 
parilis@gandalf.rutgers.edu (Gary Parilis) writes:
>
>Can somebody please suggest some newsgroups on which to post a 
>question about using SAS on Unix?  The only relevant one I've found is 
>comp.unix.misc, but my question is specific to SAS, so I've got a
>feeling that that group might not be much help.

I don't know if there's a newsgroup, but there is a BITNET mailing list
called SAS-L.  You can subscribe to it by sending mail like this:

   To: LISTSERV@OHSTVMA.BITNET 
   Subject: 

   subscribe sas-l Gary Parilis

To post a message, mail to sas-l@ohstvma.bitnet.  You may get a message
back telling you to use a different list server, in which case you should.

SAS Institute has limited support over the holiday week, but if you call
the regular number you can leave a message and someone will (in theory)
call you back.  I don't know if there's a restriction that only the site
rep can call in; there is for PC's, and there isn't for S/370 mainframes.

 
-- 

-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Jack Hamilton   jfh@netcom.com   P. O. Box 281107   SF, CA   94128-1107
Organization: Pittsburgh Supercomputing Center, Carnegie Mellon, Pittsburgh, PA
Newsgroups: news.groups,comp.security,comp.security.misc,alt.security,sci.crypt
Date: Sun, 27 Dec 1992 22:12:42 -0500 
From: "Thomas W. Strong, Jr." <strong+@CMU.EDU>
Subject: RFD: sci.crypt.research
Followup-To: news.groups

  This is a formal Request For Discussion regarding the establishment of
  a newsgroup to discuss scientific and technical aspects of
  cryptography. The discussion has already begun in several newsgroups, 
  this is an attempt to formalize the discussion and begin the procedure
  for the creation of a new group.

  This announcement is cross-posted to newsgroups whose readers may have
  interest in the discussion about the new group. Follow-up discussion
  will take place in "news.groups". Comments may be emailed to me at 

  ts49+@andrew.cmu.edu

REQUEST FOR DISCUSSION
----------------------

NEWSGROUP CREATION
		create	sci.crypt.research
		Charter	Scientific and technical matters applying to
			data en/decryption. (as opposed to the law, 
			politics, licensing, and ethics thereof)

RATIONALE

  I believe that a new group is needed simply because sci.crypt is so
  high-volume, and has such a low signal-to-noise ratio, that it is
  essentially impossible to use it for professional discussion about
  cryptography.  I don't think that sci.crypt should be removed, but
  instead that a new group, which will coexist with sci.crypt, is
  necessary.

  The idea of a moderated group has been floating around for a while,
  and it appears that there is sufficient support for it.  

  However, in the interests of naming consistency, we should probably keep
  sci.crypt for the hobbyists and create a new group called
  sci.crypt.research for serious researchers.

  Such a partitioning strategy has worked previously with sci.math and
  sci.math.research, so a precedent exists for this type of action.

  The moderation policy should be fairly non-restrictive.  (Postings will
  not be rejected for not meeting academc standards, however redundant and
  off-topic postings will be rejected.)

NEWSGROUP CREATION

  Please post all discussion to news.groups.


 -----------------------------------------------------------------
  Tom Strong              N3NBB              ts49+@andrew.cmu.edu
From: marc@tanda.isis.org (Marc Thibault)
Newsgroups: news.groups
Subject: Re: RFD: comp.security.email
Date: Tue, 22 Dec 92 17:54:28 EST
Reply-To: marc@tanda.isis.org
Distribution: world
Organization: Thibault & Friends

        Hallelooyah!

        Postings on mail crypt are spread over four or five groups
        with about 80% redundancy, just little enough to get those of
        us who are interested wading through all of them to get the
        other 20%. Maybe I'm the only one out here who considers
        cross-posting to be the internet equivalent of farting on a
        bus (done only under duress), but I think all of us would
        welcome a single well-defined place for this discussion.

        We can also hope that the effect is not merely to add one more
        entry to already overlong lists.

        BTW: Is there something wrong with my feed? I have it on good
        authority that news.groups is the place to discuss RFD's, but
        I'm not seeing any discussion (except for the SHAREWARE
        thing); just RFD's, CFV's and meta-posts.

        Cheers all, and best of the season to ye,
                                                  Marc

---
 Marc Thibault        |  Automation Architect        |  The PC: Colt '45
 marc@tanda.isis.org  |  R.R.1, Oxford Mills,        |  of the information
 CIS:71441,2226       |  Ontario, Canada  K0G 1S0    |   frontier
 NC FreeNet: aa185    |                              |

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-----END PGP PUBLIC KEY BLOCK-----
From: jack@dcs.glasgow.ac.uk (Jack Campin)
Newsgroups: news.groups
Subject: Re: RFD: talk.politics.patriot
Date: 18 Dec 92 20:07:11 GMT
Reply-To: jack@dcs.glasgow.ac.uk (Jack Campin)
Organization: COMANDOS Project, Glesga Yoonie

a_rubin@dsg4.dse.beckman.com (Arthur Rubin) wrote:
> visser@convex.com (Lance Visser) writes:
>> brians@atlastele.com (Brian Sheets) writes:
>>> I would like to propose a newsgroup for the patriot movement in the U.S.
>>> This would include discussions on rights violations by legislation, gold 
>>> and silver as payment for debts, freedom organizations and many other
>>> basic US Constitutional topics.
>> How about talk.politics.reactionary as an alternative?
> misc.activism.{reactionary,conservative}?

Well, we already have misc.activism.progressive, so the obvious name would
be misc.activism.retrogressive, wouldn't it?

Is there a specific party or other organization that actually calls itself
the "patriot movement" that Brian might have had in mind?  Or does he mean
a grab-bag of everything from Larouche to televangelists to Aryan Nations
to the Libertarian Party?

-- 
--  Jack Campin    room G092, Computing Science Department, Glasgow University,
17 Lilybank Gardens, Glasgow G12 8RZ, Scotland   TEL: 041 339 8855 x6854 (work)
INTERNET: jack@dcs.glasgow.ac.uk or via nsfnet-relay.ac.uk    FAX: 041 330 4913
BANG!net: via mcsun and uknet     BITNET: via UKACRL    UUCP: jack@glasgow.uucp
Xref: sparky news.groups:24816 soc.motss:53397
From: Minotaur@cup.portal.com (A Frank Swilling)
Newsgroups: news.groups,soc.motss
Subject: Re: Soc.Motss.*
Date: Mon, 21 Dec 92 22:29:36 PST
Organization: The Portal System (TM)
  <Bz7JsC.8Mx@hico2.westmark.com> <1992Dec14.85156.27689@ms.uky.edu>
  <1992Dec15.012442.27914@macc.wisc.edu> <1992Dec15.161939.27056@osf.org>

Don't mind me.  Just cleaning up after myself:

>Politics and various intellectual musings would be a natural for
>.mind.  Medicine and a broad range of physical pursuits would
>find a proper home in .body.  And just about anything else that
>makes getting up in the morning and taking that first deep breath
>  would fit under the heading .soul.
 ^
worthwhile

Frank
Minotaur@cup.portal.com
Xref: sparky news.groups:24853 talk.politics.misc:65176 alt.fan.rush-limbaugh:10631