HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: Laurie.Appleton@p1.f316.n640.z3.fidonet.org (Laurie Appleton)
Newsgroups: k12.ed.science
Subject: Spelling
Date: Thu, 10 Dec 92 10:38:44 PDT
Organization: FidoNet node 3:640/316.1 - The Galaxy GateWay , Minden Qld Australia

 Hello Peter. Your message to someone else contained the
 following;

 PM> As an almost perfect speller, it pains me when people
 PM> assume that there
 PM> is some special value in being able to spell.  I have never put any
 PM> effort into it: I just KNOW how to sling those letters together.  I
 PM> suspect it is something to do with the way(s) we perceive patterns:

   What a shame you do not seem to have the same ability in some
 other areas then!!  I refer to the CvsE echo, where, as you
 might know, I am banned 'indefinitely', but have seen some of
 your 'pearls of wisdom'!! (Can read but cannot reply!!)

    I guess that evolutionists need such bannings to make it a
 bit easier for themselves. They used every trick in the book, of
 this and other sorts, to WIN some court cases in the USA, even
 when they had admitted, in various journals that they had LOST
 most of the debates on the scientific issues for a decade or
 more!!

   I assume that you do not receive NETMAIL or FIDONET, since I
 have left you some replies there but received no response!

 PM>  Forget spelling: your
 PM> postings are interesting and informative: keep it up!

   At least that makes some sense!!

 Laurie




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uucp: uunet!m2xenix!puddle!3!640!316.1!Laurie.Appleton
Internet: Laurie.Appleton@p1.f316.n640.z3.fidonet.org
From: Jessica.Smith@p0.f14.n346.z1.fidonet.org (Jessica Smith)
Newsgroups: k12.ed.science
Subject: clearcuts
Date: 10 Dec 92 16:27:22 GMT
Organization: FidoNet node 1:346/14.0 - Room 5, Bonners Ferry ID


 



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uucp: uunet!m2xenix!puddle!346!14.0!Jessica.Smith
Internet: Jessica.Smith@p0.f14.n346.z1.fidonet.org
From: Sharon.Harms@p0.f14.n346.z1.fidonet.org (Sharon Harms)
Newsgroups: k12.ed.science
Subject: animals
Date: Thu, 17 Dec 92 09:22:00 PDT
Organization: FidoNet node 1:346/14.0 - Room 5, Bonners Ferry ID

     I am answering your survey on animal rites and animal testing. 
 
Your first question was, Should animals be used for testing? I
think it is O.K. to use animals for some testing.  It depends on
what kind of testing is being done.  I don't want animals to
undergo any pain unless it is absolutely neccesary.  The second
question was, Should rabbits be used for testing of lotions,
shampoos and conditioners?  Yhis can go for any animal not just
rabbits.  I think it is better to test the product on animals
before msrketing the product rather than putting it out on market
and hundreds of the buyers getting rashes from it or other side
effects.  Your third question was, Is all this testing neccessary? 
 
Yes it is neccessary because like I said it before the maker of the
product needs to find out the reactions to the product before it is
put out for the public to buy.  The fourth question is, How far
should we go with testing? Until it becomes fatal or makes animals
suffer?   This question doesn't really have a yes or no answer.  To
make sure products are safe for the public they have to undergo
some sort of testing.  I don't want animals to suffer, unless the
test is absolutely neccessary.  For scientists to discover cures
for certain diseases they have to use something to experiment on. 
 
Without the use of animals many cures for diseases would not have
been discovered.  I hope this has helped your survey. 


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uucp: uunet!m2xenix!puddle!346!14.0!Sharon.Harms
Internet: Sharon.Harms@p0.f14.n346.z1.fidonet.org
From: Lowell.Herr@f32.n105.z1.fidonet.org (Lowell Herr)
Newsgroups: k12.ed.science
Subject: Use of K12net Science Echo
Date: Sun, 13 Dec 92 05:27:00 PDT
Organization: FidoNet node 1:105/32 - On-Line Mutual Fund, Portland OR

I have been asked to post a note as to the use of the Science Echo.  What I am
 looking for on this echo is quite wide open.  If the discussions have to do
 with science, then there is no problem.  If the postings have a lot of casual
chatter and little else, then those messages would be better placed over into
one of the K12net Chat Echoes.

In the past this echo became a battleground for evolution discussions.  Those
 discussions moved "across the line" from science to religion and philosophy.
When that happened, the committee in charge of K12net felt it was time to
 restore the Science Echo to its original intent - that of a place where
 students and teachers could share science ideas.  We prefer that this verbal
 battle not begin again.  That does not mean discussions about evolution no
 merit. 
Discussion of Science Projects might originate in this echo but
 eventually projects should take on a life of their own in one of
 the Channels.  Channels are specifically reserved for educational projects.

Recently there have been a lot of good questions coming from students.  I hope
 many of you will pick up on those questions and provide further discussion for
 these students.

Thank you for your cooperation.

Moderator 

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uucp: uunet!m2xenix!puddle!32!Lowell.Herr
Internet: Lowell.Herr@f32.n105.z1.fidonet.org
Newsgroups: k12.ed.science
From: wvhorn@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (William VanHorne)
Subject: Re: Evolution
Organization: The Ohio State University
Date: Fri, 18 Dec 1992 12:39:14 GMT

Lowell.Herr@f32.n105.z1.fidonet.org (Lowell Herr) writes:

>Just the fact that we find tropical leaves in the arctic regions is reason
> enough to support the fact that the earth is not rotating on its axis as was
> once the case.  Perhaps some reader will have some ideas what caused this
> major change.
>
>Lowell 
>
You are forgetting continental drift.  Just because Antarctica is now located
at the south pole doesn't mean that it always was there, nor does it mean that
it will be there forever.  The continents are continually shifting around,
slamming together, and breaking apart; just as Asia is right now being shattered
by the Indian subcontinent.

---Bill VanHorne
From: Frank.Fruter@p0.f11.n356.z1.fidonet.org (Frank Fruter)
Newsgroups: k12.ed.science
Subject: interplanetary flyby
Date: Fri, 11 Dec 92 22:24:06 PDT
Organization: FidoNet node 1:356/11.0 - The College, Coos Bay OR

Earlier this year a one mile wide asteroid passed within a mere scant 
2.2 million miles from earth. That makes several in the past couple 
years.  Please write your Govn't officials and encourage them to support 
NASA and amatuer efforts to spot the suspect chunks before they have 
already passed us.

whip whip



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uucp: uunet!m2xenix!puddle!356!11.0!Frank.Fruter
Internet: Frank.Fruter@p0.f11.n356.z1.fidonet.org
From: rowe@pender.ee.upenn.edu (Mickey Rowe)
Newsgroups: k12.ed.science
Subject: Re: Speed of Light
Date: 14 Dec 92 23:28:44 GMT
Organization: University of Pennsylvania

In article <29692.2B2CAEE7@puddle.fidonet.org>
     Laurie.Appleton@p1.f316.n640.z3.fidonet.org (Laurie Appleton) writes:

>    All very interesting questions. But then 'science' is
> changing its view so often that we can be sure that they will
> find that what they believe today is wrong tomorrow and
> tomorrow it will be all different!

We use science to give us the best understanding that we can have
based on physical evidence.  Sometimes the evidence is misleading, and
theories have to be discarded as more evidence comes in.  Rather than
use that as an excuse to distrust all of science, what you should do
is to ask what evidence different theories are based upon, and decide
for yourself how compelling the evidence is.

>   I mean the whole of out current thinking is based in the
> concept of the BIG BANG, but in the last few years there have
> been a number of findings and observations that are in conflict
> with it ...

Laurie has apparently not heard about COBE (the cosmic background
energy explorer).  COBE is a satellite making very fine measurements
of background radiation (see below), and has just given our best
current model of the big bang a very difficult test.  The model passed
the test (i.e.  the theory was not falsified by the new evidence).

The big bang model of the history of the universe was posited when it
was discovered that the universe is expanding.  (You can ask how
that's known, but I'll skip it for now.)  Scientists postulated that
given the manner in which stellar objects are currently moving, at
some point in the past space would have been confined to a point.  If
this were so, then there should be some evidence of the initial
expansion in the form of low energy radiation coming from everywhere
in space.  Note the hallmark of a scientific theory: a falsifiable
prediction.  This background energy was later measured, and scientists
came to accept the big bang model.  (There are other lines of evidence
consistent with the story, but this is the one of which I'm most
familiar).

Matter is not uniformly distributed in space, however.  It's clumped
up into galaxies--regions where stars are in relatively large
abundance--surrounded by large areas devoid of luminous objects.  This
too should be reflected in the background radiation; if our
understanding of the initial expansion is correct, there should be
more energy coming from certain directions in space.  This is what
COBE set out to verify.  As I said, COBE found what theory *predicted*
it would find, so we once again we have more confidence in the theory.
The theory could still be wrong, but this is how science works.

The evidence led us to models that made predictions.  If those
predictions were wrong, we'd have scrapped the theory.  So far the Big
Bang model is doing quite well.

>Internet: Laurie.Appleton@p1.f316.n640.z3.fidonet.org

Mickey Rowe    (rowe@pender.ee.upenn.edu)
From: jac@ds8.scri.fsu.edu (Jim Carr)
Newsgroups: k12.ed.science
Subject: Re: Mind-benders
Summary: Infinity is fun
Date: 16 Dec 92 15:54:51 GMT
Reply-To: jac@ds8.scri.fsu.edu (Jim Carr)
Organization: SCRI, Florida State University

Good idea Aaron, it is always nice to have a few things that will 
amuse your friends and confuse your enemies. 

I think the concept of infinity is one of those things.  Did you know 
that there are some infinities that are bigger than other infinities? 

(Think about how you would compare two very large sets of numbers.) 

Do you know that you can sum an infinite collection of numbers and 
come up with a finite answer (Zeno's paradox)?  

Rather than go into detail here, right now, I will just refer you to 
a book called "1-2-3 Infinity" by George Gamow.  I do not know if it 
is still in print, but it is worth tracking down if you like questions 
about turning an orange inside out.  If you have a national bookstore 
chain like Waldenbooks nearby, they can run a computer search to see 
if it can be ordered for you.  (The "Mr. Tompkins" series is good, too.) 

Just for the record, my favorite problem concerns what is called the 
"Cantor Set", named after Georg Cantor who came up with the idea of 
infinities bigger than other infinities when he was not in an asylum. 
This is a set that is constructed as follows: you take a line segment 
of length 1 (think of it as a line 1 inch long) and throw away the 
middle third of it, then throw away the middle third of the two remaining 
segments, then throw away the middle third of the four remaining segments, 
etc, etc.  It can be shown that what you have left after an infinite 
number of these steps is a line that has zero length (you have apparently 
thrown it all away) *but* it still has the same number of points as the 
line you originally started with!  Heh, heh.  Think about that one. 

--
J. A. Carr                                    |  "The New Frontier of which I  
jac@gw.scri.fsu.edu                           |  speak is not a set of promises
Florida State University  B-186               |  -- it is a set of challenges."
Supercomputer Computations Research Institute |   John F. Kennedy (15 July 60)
Newsgroups: k12.ed.science
From: wvhorn@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (William VanHorne)
Subject: Re: UFO'S
Keywords: Boy those folks in Bonners Ferry sure are inquisitive! 
Organization: The Ohio State University
Date: Thu, 17 Dec 1992 15:04:45 GMT

In article <27962.2B260A7F@puddle.fidonet.org> Jessica.Smith@p0.f14.n346.z1.fidonet.org (Jessica Smith) writes:
>Hi, my name is Jessica Smith.

Hi.

>I am a junior at Bonners Ferry High School.

And you should be thankful for that.  Whoever is running your school is
doing quite a job.  Imagine, having Usenet access in a high school!  And then
actually encouraging the students to use it!  Wow!
 
>In my Biology class we have been studying a little bit
>about evolution.  This subject to me is very contraversial because
>of peoples different beliefs.

You have just discovered why the "scientific method" is so widely used.
It is very easy to have a belief.  If I were to tell you that I believed
that the Washington Monument was actually a landing beacon erected by
space aliens with unknown technology, your response should be: "what's 
your evidence?".  I doubt that my evidence would hold-up under scrutiny!

>I believe we evolved from apes but then again that doesn't make alot of sense-
>where did the apes come from?

Well actually we and the apes evolved together.  We are closely related to
chimpanzees, but that means that chimps and humans share a common ancestry,
not that one came from the other.  (Evidence? DNA.)

>Adam and Eve may have been the first on earth-but where did
>they come from?  If anyone has an explanation for these theories,
>I'd like to know.  Since scientists aren't really sure how we
>evolved, everyone has been taught different through religion,
>school, and through personal beliefs.  I'd like to hear your
>opinions on the subject.  Since no belief can be proven for a fact,
>maybe the advancement of DNA testing will be able to be used for
>further study.  I'd like to hear your comments.
> 
>                         Jessica Smith
>
If you are looking for absolutes, science is not going to provide them.  The
overwhelming evidence in favor of evolution does *not* mean that evolution
is now "gospel".  Everything in science is a theory, which means that it is
constantly tested, revised, argued over, and changed.  Evolutionary theory
of today is quite different from the theory proposed by Darwin and Wallace.

There seems to be a misconception among many people that science is 
conducted by some sort of cadre of high-priests who sit down and decide what 
is true and what isn't.  Actually, science is conducted in a raucous and
decidedly unpriestlike manner, and beliefs don't count.  The person trying
to poke holes in your theories isn't going to care what you believe, only
how good a job you do in gathering and presenting your evidence and how 
logical you are in drawing your conclusions.

Your job is to learn as much as possible about the things that interest you,
look for errors, question conclusions, experiment, think, and above all, ask
the hard questions.  Almost everyone who gets involved ends up contributing
to our overall knowledge.

---Bill VanHorne
From: Kelly.Meeker@p0.f14.n346.z1.fidonet.org (Kelly Meeker)
Newsgroups: k12.ed.science
Subject: SHOES
Date: Tue, 15 Dec 92 09:50:45 PDT
Organization: FidoNet node 1:346/14.0 - Room 5, Bonners Ferry ID

Mike,
     I too am a high school student in North Idaho.  I am
responding to your survey on shoes.  Here are my responses:
 
1. Do you think shoes cost too much?  Definately.  For how        
 
   inexpensively manufacturers can make these products, their     
 
   prices are absolutely ridiculous.
 
2. Is a pair of shoes worth $75-130?  Heavens no!  I have heard   
 
   shoes can be made for about $10.  Manufacturers are definately 
 
   making a profit.  Shoes are only leather tied together, not    
 
   gold!
 
3. Do you really need an "air pocker" or "window" in the rear of  
 
   the shoe?  Sometimes I think they are necessary.  These pockets 
 
   give more cushion for comfort.  Similarly, the Reebok Pump gives 
 
   support for ankles.  I know, from experience, that they are a  
 
   great benefit.
 
4. How much do you spend on your shoes?  My family has a history of 
 
   bad feet, so my parents encourage me to keep away from Payless 
 
   and KMart shoes and buy something with good arch support.  So I 
 
   spend between $30-70, whatever is comfortable and looks good!



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uucp: uunet!m2xenix!puddle!346!14.0!Kelly.Meeker
Internet: Kelly.Meeker@p0.f14.n346.z1.fidonet.org
From: Rebekah.Lawrence@p0.f14.n346.z1.fidonet.org (Rebekah Lawrence)
Newsgroups: k12.ed.science
Subject: various sightings
Date: Mon, 14 Dec 92 10:12:26 PDT
Organization: FidoNet node 1:346/14.0 - Room 5, Bonners Ferry ID

g



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uucp: uunet!m2xenix!puddle!346!14.0!Rebekah.Lawrence
Internet: Rebekah.Lawrence@p0.f14.n346.z1.fidonet.org
From: John.Crull@f921.n720.z6.fidonet.org (John Crull)
Newsgroups: k12.ed.science
Subject: Re: pregnancy survey
Date: Tue, 15 Dec 92 17:09:00 PDT
Organization: FidoNet node 6:720/921 - World Data Exchange, Taipei Taiwan

On 12-13-92, MICKEY ROWE wrote to ALL:
>-------------------------------------
His claim is thus amenable to scientific investigation....
>-------------------------------------

Excellent response.  Wish I could participate in the first experiment.  I'll copy this and see if any in our science classes would like to conduct research suggested by this discussion.

-------
This copy of Freddie 1.0 is being evaluated.



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uucp: uunet!m2xenix!puddle!6!720!921!John.Crull
Internet: John.Crull@f921.n720.z6.fidonet.org
From: John.Crull@f921.n720.z6.fidonet.org (John Crull)
Newsgroups: k12.ed.science
Subject: Speed of light
Date: Tue, 15 Dec 92 17:14:00 PDT
Organization: FidoNet node 6:720/921 - World Data Exchange, Taipei Taiwan

On 12-10-92, LAURIE APPLETON wrote to JEREMY CARROLL:
>-------------------------------------
I guess that many of our science teachers present the speculations about these things with such confidence that many students are beguiled into thinking that they are as good as factual, when that is not the case at all.
>-------------------------------------

For more company on this feeling that maybe there are some misconceptions passed on by a few of us, see the Oct. 1992 issue of Scientific American in which you'll find a paper presented on the state of science ed. in the USA.

-------
This copy of Freddie 1.0 is being evaluated.



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uucp: uunet!m2xenix!puddle!6!720!921!John.Crull
Internet: John.Crull@f921.n720.z6.fidonet.org
From: Judy.Sneed@f70.n147.z1.fidonet.org (Judy Sneed)
Newsgroups: k12.ed.science
Subject: Re: EVOLUTION
Date: Mon, 14 Dec 92 21:37:26 PDT
Organization: FidoNet node 1:147/70 - The Teacher's Pet, Oklahoma City OK

 MR> Mickey Rowe     (rowe@pender.ee.upenn.edu)

 MR> P.S.  I agree with a previous poster that Dan Ashlock used the word
 MR> "proven" in an inappropriate sense.  I understand his zeal, however,
 MR> because it's hard to hold back when talking about a fact that is as
 MR> well supported as evolution is.  For scientists there is no
 MR> controversy about the fact of evolution, and there hasn't been one for
 MR> well over a hundred years.

I don't want to get into a big debate with you. Mr. Herr has asked that we do not do so. However, please remember that saying "scientists" alone is not correct. There are many highly qualified scientists who believe in Creation. If you must discuss the evolutionary viewpoint, please remember to say "most scientists." Children need to know that there is still major controversy with evidence on this subject. They may wish to study further.

Judy



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uucp: uunet!m2xenix!puddle!147!70!Judy.Sneed
Internet: Judy.Sneed@f70.n147.z1.fidonet.org
From: Mike.Peterson@p0.f14.n346.z1.fidonet.org (Mike Peterson)
Newsgroups: k12.ed.science
Subject: Classroom Computers
Date: Mon, 14 Dec 92 11:57:06 PDT
Organization: FidoNet node 1:346/14.0 - Room 5, Bonners Ferry ID

 
 
     Hello All,
 
               I have recently moved to Bonners Ferry High school,
Idaho USA. I was surprised how far advanced in computer technology
this school is. I was wondering if any of the other schools,
universities or colleges are this far advanced in terms of computer
technology.
 
     We have presently in this room:
 
1    Zap-shot camera
7    386 computers, (4 are temporary)
1    486 computer with a sound board and a video board
1    video camera
2    lab-top computers with the IBM PSL probeware components.
3    televisions that are connected to the 486 computer
 
     What do you have in your classroom??
 
     Mike-



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uucp: uunet!m2xenix!puddle!346!14.0!Mike.Peterson
Internet: Mike.Peterson@p0.f14.n346.z1.fidonet.org
Newsgroups: k12.ed.science
From: jgasaway@ncsa.uiuc.edu (James Gasaway)
Subject: "Proof" and Science (was EVOLUTION)
Followup-To: k12.ed.science
Organization: NCSA
Date: Sun, 13 Dec 1992 16:29:08 GMT

Several people have been saying things like: "This proves..." or "This has
been proven."  I think it is important for us to remember that science does
*not* prove anything.  The basis of science is falsifibility, not proof. 
This is the foundation of scientific philosophy, and it doesn't help the
evolution argument when you claim something as proven (because it's not--at
least as far as science is concerned).

Please remember to use phrases like such-and-such "supports the theory" and
"this evidence does not disprove this hypothesis because...."  It's more
accurate and it's within the realm of science.


James
jgasaway@ncsa.uiuc.edu
University of Illinois @ Urbana/Champaign
Newsgroups: k12.ed.science
From: sg@cunixa.cc.columbia.edu (Scott Genzer)
Subject: Re: Mind-benders
Reply-To: sg@cunixa.cc.columbia.edu (Scott Genzer)
Organization: Columbia University
Date: Thu, 17 Dec 1992 21:50:27 GMT

Oh, another one I just remembered is even easier to puzzle people
(this one will stump people for hours):

Simply put, it is IMPOSSIBLE to fold anything (piece of paper, metal,
etc . . .), no matter what the size, in HALF more than eight times.  

That's it.  Try it.  Take the biggest, thinnest of paper (newspaper
works well) and try to fold it in half as many times as you can.  You
won't get any more than 7 or 8.  

Great way to win bets, too.

-- Scott
From: Lowell.Herr@f32.n105.z1.fidonet.org (Lowell Herr)
Newsgroups: k12.ed.science
Subject: Re: Evolution
Date: Wed, 16 Dec 92 14:56:00 PDT
Organization: FidoNet node 1:105/32 - On-Line Mutual Fund, Portland OR

 > AEBy the way, which do you believe in, creation or evolution?
 > AE                                        Aaron Evans

The process of how life came into existance is not a belief.  It is a search
 for facts, evidence, data, and etc. that allows one to develop first a
 hypothesis and eventually a theory.  Based on this search additional data is
 collected and this tends to modify theories.  I have no problem living
 with this question.  I find it difficult to converse with someone who "has all
 the answers" and I find that human characteristic to be found in persons on
 both sides of the creation-evolution debate.  At this point in time the
 evidence points toward some type of gradual process of life evolving.  But
 this is not my area of science so don't take what I have to say too seriously.

LGH 

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Internet: Lowell.Herr@f32.n105.z1.fidonet.org