From: jodar@aludra.usc.edu (Nicholas Jodar)
Newsgroups: news.groups
Subject: Re:  AHMADIYYA
Keywords: Response to Accusations
Date: 9 Nov 92 07:39:05 GMT
Article-I.D.: aludra.1dmsqpINNps5
Organization: University of Southern California, Los Angeles, CA
NNTP-Posting-Host: aludra.usc.edu

Assalamu Alaikum....

I had some difficulty with some of Brother Rasheed's statements.
Specifically, I found some of them to go against my own
experiences, so I am seeking to reconcile the apparent
discrepancies.

Auzu Billahi Min Ash-Shaitan Nirajeem.  Bismillah...

In article <101201@bu.edu> Brother Rasheed A. Khalid 
(khalid@bu-bio.bu.edu) writes:

>But Mr. Hijazi, the issue is more complicated than the way you
>present it here.  It is not Ahmadis who are trying to isolate
>themselves from the general body of Islam, but the Muslims in
>general.  

I assume you are saying that the muslims (in general) are trying
to isolate themselves from the Ahmadis?  If so, this brings up
two questions:

1) Why doesn't your statement correspond with the comments made by 
the muslims I come into contact with?  The overwhelming reaction to
my questioning on the subject of Ahmadi doctrine is one of tolerance
and compassion.  The 'pool' of people I'm referring to here are
from all over the world, mostly Sunni and Shi'a.  Are muslim
university students an exception to the rule, in that none of
them seem to have anything against Ahmadis?

2) If you and the few others who have been asking for a new group
don't feel like seperating from the rest of the muslims, why are
you doing so?

>You might have read in my earlier postings in which
>I called upon the moderators of soc.culture.islam to publicly
>declare that they accept Ahmadis as Muslims.  Not a single one
>of them did so.  

Where and when did you make this call?  I was never aware of
anything such as you mention.  Indeed, I was only (lately)
directed to this newsgroup by the suggestion of Sister Merchant.

In any case, only Allah (SWT) knows who is muslim and who is not.
If a person declares themselves muslim, and try to follow the
Qur'an and Sunnat, then we must accept their claim of being
muslim.  Even Hypocrites can be muslims.  To my limited
knowledge, the only thing that puts a person outside of Islam is
lying, and/or striving against Islam.

>They do not have problems accepting the other
>72 sects under the main heading of Islam.  

Excuse me???  Since when has a Moderator's beliefs been involved
in their duties?  If I remember correctly, we've even had an
atheist as Moderator, before....

Perhaps you aren't aware of how a Moderator is appointed...?
The position of Moderator is given to those people who are judged
by consensus to be the most impartial and responsible in fulfilling 
the duties required.  Their backgrounds are checked, they're
questioned at length, and character witnesses are examined.  Then
they are appointed by vote.

>Moreover, there is
>not a single Ahmadi representative among the moderators of the
>newsgroup soc.religion.islam.  

See above, please....

>How could one, under the above
>mentioned circumstances, accept fairplay from a group that has
>a clear bias against the Ahmadiyya minority.

Perhaps I live in a different world than you do, but I see no
bias....  In fact, neither I, nor those Moderators I've talked 
to, have anything against Ahmadis, nor do we judge the value of
submissions by anything other than the Guidelines.

GUIDLINES FOR SUBMISSION:

1) Must be free from slander and libel.

2) Must be relevant to the religion of Islam and its practice.


If an article adheres to these Guidelines, it gets posted.  In
practice, some Moderators are even more lenient, and post
submissions which don't have any direct bearing on Islam.  (Such
posts are prefaced with a Moderator's Note.)

>	If, however, you have problems accepting the logic that
>I have presented here, just take a look at the Constitution of
>the Islamic Republic of Pakistan

[details of Pakistan's constitution deleted]

Perhaps I read a different kind of english than you do, but find
that you haven't presented any 'logic,' and your detailing of
Pakistan's constitution doesn't clarify what you're talking
about.

If you want me to say that I disagree with Pakistan's laws, I
will tell you so.  They do not follow the Shariat.  I disagree
with many aspects of their government, as do many of my Pakistani
Brothers here in the U.S.  What point are you trying to make?

>	The relevance of the above to the newsgroup is that
>most moderators of soc.religion.islam are from this same
>country, Pakistan.

:-)

So you are implying, then, that because several of the
Moderators are 'from Pakistan,' (and therefore supposedly hate 
Ahmadis?), that you deserve to have a new newsgroup called 
'soc.religion.islam.ahmadi'?  I suggest you create 
'soc.culture.ahmadi' and that way you'll avoid persecution from
these rabid muslims.

>SO MY VOTE IS A RESOUNDING *YES* FOR THE PROPOSED NEWSGROUP
>
>	SOC.RELIGION.ISLAM.AHMADIYYA
>
>because I think we should act fairly and not in obedience to
>a country gone awry.

...Right...

>Isn't it interesting that in this day and age when
>man is learning how to repair satellites in space, there are
>these people engaged in futile, cheap leg-pulling which is
>going to lead them nowhere.

>sigh<

-AQ

[I beg Allah's forgiveness for my weakness and insufficiency in ]
['His' service, and I ask for his protection from Shaitan and   ]
[from my own Desires.  None can protect me except Allah.  If I  ]
[have made any errors, I beg Allah to bring them to my attention]
[so that they may be corrected.  If I have made none, then it is]
[only through the Grace of Allah and all praise is due only to  ]
['Him.'                                                         ]