From: dos@major.panix.com (Dave O'Shea)
Newsgroups: rec.autos.driving
Subject: Re: H. Ross Perot's proposed gas tax
Date: 10 Oct 92 01:58:27 GMT
Organization: ACME products - artillery division

tmkk@uiuc.edu (Khan) writes:

> Raise the gas tax, and channel the money not to defecit reduction but to
> building of the infrastructure. That includes roads and public
> transportation. As the tax is gradually phased in over a period of
> years, ridership on public transit will gradually increase, and the gas
> tax itself will subsidize mass transit, allowing for more busses and
> trains. The mass transit system will grow as the ridership grows. More
> routes will be established, more MT vehicles will be added along those
> and other routes, enough to accomodate everybody who needs it. Meanwhile,
> the rich who can afford the gas tax commute in their cars as they always have

I see at least two problems here. First, let's say we collect $10 in new
taxes with this setup. You want to spend it on infrastructure, he wants
to spend it on deficit reduction, someone else wants to spend it on
public transportation, and another person wants to do something else
with it.

So now we have $10 of revenue, but $50 of new proposed spending. A
compromise is reached, with only $30 of actual outlays, and $5 of
administrative overhead.

Second, public transportation is a marginal solution in urban areas,
where it's a usable solution if you don't have another choice. But
nobody, but nobody, rides public trnasportation by choice. I often have
to work out of Long Island, or in New Jersey. Yes, I could get there by
public transportation - often cheaper than driving - but it would take
hours. Additionally, many people don't live near public transportation.
Even here, less than 10 miles from New York City, I'd have to ride two
hours on three buses to get to the business district a few miles away -
assuming all connections work out.

> 
> Where's the problem with this?
> 
> >Second, nobody drives the phenomenal distances we drive here. I commute
> >30 miles a day, one way, and am not the only one...
> 
> As has alredy been pointed out, the only people who have to commute
> these phenominal distances are those rich enough to afford to live in
> nice suburbs. The working poor can't afford to live in a nice house like
> yours; they have to live in a somewhat less desirable area, which also
> happens to be much closer to where they work. No 30 mile commutes for
> them. In fact, they probably live right on the bus route.

Does this mean I'm rich? Actually, I'd say you have it exactly
backwards: The housing costs get lower as you get farther out from the
main business areas like New York - and more dependent on private autos.

> >Also people drive MUCH more fuel efficient cars there in general. Over
> >there a Honda Civic is a medium sized car. With cars over, say, 1600 cc
> >(1.6l) being penalized to death in taxes, there's little incentive.
> 
> The same would quickly become true here. What's wrong with that? If that
> were to come to pass, what makes you think it would adversely affect the
> working poor? Please don't forget to include mass transit in your
> answer. ;-)

Would be a shame to sacrifice lives in smaller, less safe cars in the
name of saving a few gallons.

And yes, I ride public transportation for the present time. I spend 3
hours per day, 15 hours per week, underground in a subway car. I step
through puddles of urine (I know where the constant ones are, and avoid
them) at each station. I listen to deafening noise from the trains
pulling into the station. I avoid the more agressive vagrants, though
many people (especially women) are harassed regularly by them. Now and
then, we have the pleasure of being locked in a steel sardine can with a
derelict who hasn't bathed in months, and smells of decay and the feces
that they've filled their clothes with. Ah, and the soft strains of
Ice-T or Public Enemy generously provided by a Disaffected Urban Youth
with his portable entertainment system. Oh - and remember we've got a
Tuberculosis epedemic in New York - and that fellow who's got his nose
six inches from your ear - or the lady who's hair is brushing against
your chin - might be catching. If you do get a seat, it's hard, flat,
and slippery as ice - so at every stop, the passengers all slide into
each other - and the one at the end gets that metal railing in the ribs.

--
"A leopard never changes his stripes" 
           -- Al Gore, candidate for vice-president