HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: mm42@prism.gatech.EDU (Mark Mitchell)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
Subject: Re: Jays/Braves Comparison
Date: 16 Oct 92 00:43:03 GMT
Organization: Ramblin' Wrecks from Georgia Tech

sivaram@plains.NoDak.edu (Sivaram Hariharan ) wrote:
}
}  CATEGORY          JAYS        BRAVES
}  ============================================
}
} Starting-pitching   good      Other than Smoltz it is suspect

I would have to quickly call into question the knowledge of someone
who rates the Atlanta starting pitching as "suspect" or really
anything less than "very good", considering that Braves' starters
had the best ERA and cumulative Game Scores in the NL.  A couple
of rough playoff starts do not erase that.

If you want to talk about specific matchups you might get somewhere,
since 3 of the Braves top 4 starters are lefties, which is not so
good against the Jays.  For this reason I hope Cox will work in 
at least one start for Pete Smith, but I'm not holding my breath.

-- 
Mark Mitchell           Georgia Tech            mm42@prism.gatech.edu

       "Death wears a big hat, 'cause he's a big bloke."
From: jt2t+@andrew.cmu.edu (James Francis Thomas)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
Subject: Leave Barry Bonds Alone!!
Date: 13 Oct 92 22:01:51 GMT
Organization: Senior, Biology, Carnegie Mellon, Pittsburgh, PA

Over the past few weeks I have read how Barry Bonds doesn't deserve to
be the MVP because he hasn't performed well in the NLCS.  
I think that you idiots are all wrong.

A.  Bonds never gets any good pitches.
B.  Bonds broke his "slump" with a game winning RBI double in game #5
C.  Bonds prevented what could have been a big inning for the Braves by 
  chasing down a long fly ball hit by Gant.
D.  A team wins and a team loses not individuals.
E.  The Pirates as a team sucked in their losses.
D.  There are still two more games to play, and Barry is starting to shine. 

Based on your arguements over the past few weeks, many of you out there
claim that Terry should be the MVP.  Maybe we should start a TERRYWATCH
since he hit a whopping .185(not sure exactly on this figure) last year,
and I believe he just broke the National League record with the number
of hits he got against the Pirates in Pittsburgh, not.  I guess its ok
to slam Barry for not hitting, but when Pendleton goes 1-13 no one seems
to care.  

Quit picking on Bonds, unless of course you can play baseball better
than he, and enjoy the rest of the series.  I would like to see
Pittsburgh win this thing, but if they don't, I'm not going to blame it
on Bonds, or any other player on the Pirates organization.  Sure its
going to be a disappoint if they don't make it to the World Series, but
its great seeing the Pirates in the NLCS.  This is sure better than
about six years ago when the Pirates lost 90 games instead of winning
90. 

Jim Thomas

Lets Go BUCS!!
From: roger@crux.Princeton.EDU (Roger Lustig)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
Subject: Re: The Ex-Cub Factor
Date: 9 Oct 92 03:15:26 GMT
Article-I.D.: Princeto.1992Oct9.031526.23589
Reply-To: roger@astro.princeton.edu (Roger Lustig)
Organization: Princeton University
Originator: news@nimaster

In article <1992Oct9.020417.29091@leland.Stanford.EDU> cmeyer@spiral.Stanford.EDU (Craig Meyer) writes:
>Paul Andresen (paula@koufax.cv.hp.com) wrote:

>: 
>:       Atlanta            Pittsburgh        Toronto      Oakland
>:       -------            ----------        -------      -------
>:       Damon Berryhill    Lloyd McClendon   Joe Carter   Dennis Eckersley
>:                          Gary Varsho       Pat Tabler 
>:                          Danny Jackson
>: 

>When did Carter and Tabler play for the Cubs?  (You aren't thinking of
>the Indians, are you?)

Both players came up with the Cubs, Tabler in 1981 (he also got a
look-see in 82) and Carter in 83.  Both players did poorly in their 
first seasons, after having been highly touted.

Roger
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
From: gindin@gindinraleigh.ibm.com (Jim Gindin)
Subject: Clutch Performer Jack Morris
Date: Mon, 12 Oct 1992 20:19:10 GMT
Reply-To: gindin@gindinraleigh.ibm.com (Jim Gindin)
Organization: ELC

I, for one, would like to offer hearty congratulations to Jack Morris,
who deserves ALLCS MVP consideration for his heady contribution
to Toronto's commanding lead in the series.
 
1) Morris provided the spark the Jays needed in Game 1, giving
up the game-winning home run to Baines at just the right time -
Toronto teammates knew they could compete with Oakland - they just
had to try a little harder, and Morris pitched to the score
perfectly to accomplish just that.
 
2) Morris knew exactly how many runs he could give up in
game 4 so that his teammates could come back with a morale-
crushing extra-inning victory over Eckersley and the A's. He
personally went over to Roberto Alomar before his ninth-inning
at bat and said "go get 'em, Robby", showing he is a team
leader and Official Positive Clubhouse Influence. 

Why not give him the World Series MVP right now. Just by suiting
up, he'll make the Jays invincible.
 
Okay, I'll stop. Morris had a great game 7 last year. He's been
a good pitcher for about 10 years now, close to the best for a
five-year period which ended in 1989. Not any more. He is still a
little better than average, if I were a manager, I would be
delighted with Morris as a third or maybe even second starter. 
He's very durable, doesn't lose his cool and rarely has more
than a couple of bad outings in a row.
 
But he is not the master of 5-4 ballgames. Without the Jays'
tremendous run support this season, he would not have come
close to 20 wins - my guess is his record should have been 
about 14-12 given his numbers.

If you asked him about pitching to the score, I'd bet he'd
laugh (actually, from interviewing him once myself, he'd 
probably act as if he were insulted - he is a little paranoid
about the press). The ONLY occasions you should ever pitch
to the score are when A) the score is very close and a 
dangerous hitter is at bat or B) your team is far ahead so
you want to avoid walking people to set up a big inning -
I'm sure there's a specific C or D, but that's not relevant
to my point. Managers should know enough to do this, I'm
sure Morris isn't the only one.

As for throwing hardest for the most crucial outs - well, I'm
not a good pitcher (I usually play outfield and I've never
been at that high a level), but I do have a decent arm (I can
get near 70 mph when feeling good) and I've found that when I'm
throwing near my hardest, I only have a certain number of throws
in my arm. It doesn't matter if I add a little extra or not -
I still last about the same amount of time, given how my arm
feels when I get it warm.

==> Jim

------------------------------------------------------------------
- Jim Gindin							 -		
- AIX Communications Software Development			 -
- I do not claim to speak for my company (or my country, or even -
- Dan Quayle) in this posting.					 -
------------------------------------------------------------------
From: bjornc@groucho.csd.uu.se (Bj|rn Carlson)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
Subject: Game Info
Date: 9 Oct 92 09:23:08
Organization: Computing Science Department, Uppsala University, Sweden
Distribution: world
NNTP-Posting-Host: groucho.csd.uu.se

Hi out there. I'm a baseball freak, living in Uppsala, Sweden.
This implies that I don't get very much info on the playoffs until
several days after the games have been played. If anyone out there
would make the effort to post, or email, a short summary of each game
it would make me a happier man.

Thanks

Bjorn
--
----------------------------------------
Bjorn Carlson
Computing Science Department
Uppsala University
Box 311 S-751 05
Uppsala Sweden

Bjorn.Carlson@csd.uu.se (bjornc@csd.uu.se, bjornc@sics.se)
----------------------------------------
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
From: wilbanks@spot.Colorado.EDU (Wendell Gee)
Subject: Lansford announces his retirement
Organization: University of Colorado, Boulder
Distribution: na
Date: Thu, 15 Oct 1992 18:07:30 GMT

Carney Lansford announced his retirement after Game 6 yesterday. In retiring,
he said that he didn't seek 3000 hits or the Hall of Fame "like Robin Yount
or George Brett"; he felt it was time for him to go. 

considering how many times he hit over .300 in non-strike seasons and his 
incredible defense it's very sad that he is leaving the sport now, when 
he has at least 5-7 more uncontested years at third for the A's. (HEAVY 
SARCASM USED IN PREVIOUS SENTENCE.)

Still, Lansford, however much a stump at the hot corner, was an everyday 
player in his prime and will be remembered as a second-tier 3b with some 
flashes of glory. He quit while he was ahead and he got out when he knew it 
was time to go. What more could yo say about him?

-- 
Dylan Wilbanks, Classics major, AND NOW Environmental Conservation!
Hobbes:"Why do we always play war and not peace?"|Currently at:
Calvin:"Too few role models."                    |Box 1143
Ren-n-Stimpy in '92! Vote for a real cartoon!    |Boulder, CO 80306
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
From: slaven@iastate.edu (Dave Slaven)
Subject: Re: The Ex-Cub Factor
Organization: Iowa State University, Ames IA
Date: Thu, 8 Oct 1992 21:57:32 GMT

In <1992Oct8.141807.6988@hpcvaac.cv.hp.com> paula@koufax.cv.hp.com (Paul Andresen) writes:

>So far, everyone has been ignoring THE most important factor in determining
>the playoff winners. It is an old, and nearly infallable predictor that the
>team with the most ex-Cubs will lose in the post season. With that in mind,
>here goes:

>      Atlanta            Pittsburgh        Toronto      Oakland
>      -------            ----------        -------      -------
>      Damon Berryhill    Lloyd McClendon   Joe Carter   Dennis Eckersley
>                         Gary Varsho       Pat Tabler 
>                         Danny Jackson

>Anyone know where this thing started? It's been around for a while. I'm
>tempted to say that Mike Royko started it, but I'm not certain.

I first saw it in Royko's column.  I think the stats really don't say
that much about having one or two ex-Cubs, but that having three is
the kiss of death.  So the Pirates are out, but after that the Cub
factor is inconclusive.
-- 
Dave Slaven 

"What do you do after you've ruined your life?"  --Mose Allison
From: jds23971@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (Neff)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
Subject: Re: freon Deion
Date: 8 Oct 92 21:01:36 GMT
Article-I.D.: news.BvtMEr.AJ
Organization: University of Illinois at Urbana

atchison@glinda.cis.ohio-state.edu (Mark Atchison) writes:

>Yep.  The simple fact is that even though both the Falcs and Bravos would 
>rather have him all, they are still each better with him part-time than without
>him at all.  He has a real value in both situations, so as long as he can
>handle it, why not?

I would agree, except that when the Braves agreed to put him on their
post-season roster, Deion agreed to play baseball "full time" for the
duration of the post season.  To me this would mean skipping Sunday's
football game.

Jeff Smith
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
From: franjion@spot.Colorado.EDU (John Franjione)
Subject: Re: NLCS Game #5 at 9: 41
Organization: University of Colorado, Boulder
Date: Mon, 12 Oct 1992 18:20:51 GMT

psg+@pitt.edu (Paul S Galvanek) writes:

>In article <1992Oct12.032828.9604@Princeton.EDU> niepornt@phoenix.Princeton.EDU (David Marc Nieporent) writes:
>>
>>>Once again we see that a WALK is definitely not as vaulable as a HIT.
>>
>>Once again, we see people setting up straw men.  Nobody ever said it was, 
>>unless there's a man on first and he's slow.

>With all due respect folks, no one may have used the exact wording but, many
>here have argued that OBP is a more important stat that batting average, or
                       ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Yes, many have said this, and said it many times.

>rbis etc and no matter how you slice it that argument - OBP > BA - boils down
>to walks are as important as hits.

No, OBP > BA (i.e. OBP is a more important stat than BA) means that
*walks have value*.  It does NOT mean that walks are AS VALUABLE as
hits.  No one has ever claimed that they are.

Look at it this way.  If you want to know how much money I have in my
pocket, I'll count the bills, and I'll count the change.  As a measure
of wealth, BPC (bills plus change) is clearly a better measure than
bills alone.  But this does not imply that coins are worth as much as
bills.

>Simply not true!  Walks CAN be as vauluable as hits but that depends on the 
>circumstances.  And since a cummulative number like OBP tells you nothing
>about how, when or why a walk was obtained it is an utterly meaningless stat
>by itself.

>What Bonds' walk(s) prove IMHO is that with out the proper person hitting behind
>you (oh that nasty protection thing again) a walk can be as equally vaulable to
>the pitcher, and some times more so, as it is to a hitter.  As had been the 
>case up until Sunday night, Bonds was collecting walks - his OBP must have been 
>decent - the Braves were glad to let him have them and it contributed in no way
>to the teams effort.

The reason Bonds' walks weren't contributing is because NOBODY ON THE
TEAM WAS HITTING WELL.

John Franjione
From: gritter@cs.purdue.EDU (Carl R. Gritter)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
Subject: Re: Key in game 5
Date: 14 Oct 92 19:59:02 GMT
Organization: Department of Computer Science, Purdue University

In article  <1992Oct14.135332.6121@morgan.ucs.mun.ca> cwelsh@morgan.ucs.mun.ca (Craig Welsh  ) writes:
>My logic is this. You are up 3-1 and you have key in the bullpen. Yes,
>the A's are mostly righthanders, but Key has been hot the last month and
>has pitched good the last month. If he wins...great it's over, World
>Series here we come. If he loses, you are still up 3-2, with Cone and
>Guzman fully rested. Considering the way Morris pitched the last game I
>wuld rather have a fully rested Guzman pitch game 7 then Morris who has
>been shakey so far this series.

I posted something about exactly this scenario right after game 4 but
no one reacted to it.  This seemed the logical thing to do after
winning game 4 and even the CBS announcers mentioned this as a viable
option to Gaston after Game 4.

I too would be much more confident about games 6 and 7 knowing that a
rested Cone and Guzman were pitching.  Besides Cone has already beaten
Moore in this series and Guzman has already beaten Darling in this
series.  Morris pitched extremely well last year.  But that doesn't
mean he'll duplicate it again this year.  Why bet the farm on this one
pitcher who hasn't come thru yet in the ALCS in stead of betting it on
the chance the one of Cone or Guzman can repeat and earlier
performance?  Has Orel Herchiser come close to duplicating his 1988
prowess?

Carl
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
From: cs902060@ariel.yorku.ca (GEOFFREY E DIAS)
Subject: Re: Attendence figures
Organization: York University, Toronto, Canada
Date: Tue, 6 Oct 1992 22:50:26 GMT

In article <BvpDyH.5r1@undergrad.math.waterloo.edu> wwedward@descartes.uwaterloo.ca (Wayne Edwards) writes:

>
>Toronto... 4.026 million!!  Double WOW!
>

	Actually, 4.028318 million. There's a difference in 2,000 fans. Toronto
just barely broke the 4 mil mark last year by only 1,526.
From: eebonar@sn01.sncc.lsu.edu (Dave Bonar)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
Subject: Re: freon Deion
Date: 9 Oct 92 00:04:38 GMT
Article-I.D.: cs.1992Oct8.231331.3275
Reply-To: eebonar@sn01.sncc.lsu.edu
Organization: News and Views from LSU
Nntp-Posting-Host-[nntpd-26185]: sn01.sncc.lsu.edu
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.3-4

In article <67372@cup.portal.com>, PunisherX@cup.portal.com (M Phil Collins) writes...
>Like most people who have little or no abilitiy in one let alone two different
>professions, you choose to criticize a person for doing both of thier jobs and
>doing them well.

	Being able to play professionally has very little to do with it.
I would make a horrible actor but I can still criticize someone for a bad
performance.

	However, I agree that there is little or no reason to criticize
Sanders.  I'd say there is no reason at all except that, from what I've heard,
the Braves aren't happy with his idea.  Since he specifically agreed to
play baseball full time while the Braves were in the playoffs (if I remember
correctly) I think he should bow to the Braves wishes.  If they say that
full time means he needs to be there for some pregame stuff that he would
miss while in flight then I think he should stick with his agreement and
not go play football.  But if the Braves don't care (and I don't see why
they should since he is only being used as a pinch runner as far as I can
tell) then I'd say go for it.

Dave
__________
Dave Bonar
eebonar@lsuvax.sncc.lsu.edu
__________
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
From: exby@pogo.Colorado.EDU (|J| Exby)
Subject: Re: Eck Chokes Again!!
Organization: University of Colorado, Boulder
Date: Tue, 13 Oct 1992 17:20:17 GMT

darrell.crone@ozonehole.new-orleans.la.us (Darrell Crone)  writes:

>oh come off your High horse, (or is it Chair???) Eck has posted numbers
>that NO other releiver ever has, and deserves both awards..I'm sure what
>ever team you Root for would sure like a chance to aquire Eckersley, then
>would you dislike him so much???... Hmmm.....

go back a little bit and see who set the AL record for saves dolt.
sure aint the eck.  I didnt hear Thigpen getting any MVP / Cy young
talk in his great year.  media builds up whomever they are
fond of at the time it looks like...

I dislike him so much because he's part of the "a's with the attitude"
problem.  he, ricky and dave stewart irk me.
and if the WhiteSox aquired eck I be rooting for every other 
player on the pitching staff except him.

>Darrell Crone              UseNet: darrell.crone@ozonehole.new-orleans.la.us

::j
From: sivaram@plains.NoDak.edu (Sivaram Hariharan )
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
Subject: Jim Kat...Announcer with great insight.
Date: 8 Oct 92 18:32:28 GMT
Article-I.D.: plains.21063
Organization: North Dakota Higher Education Computing Network

I do not know as to how many will agree with me. But I 
think that Jim is a super commentator with tremendous
knowledge of baseball's nuances and I really enjoy
listening to him. 

Anyway....much much much better than that monkey called
McCarver.  God, am I glad that the monkey is not on
the crew for the world series, tiring everybody with his
stupid rhetoric, but it is Jim in his
place.  For the first time CBS is making some intelligent
decisions.

S.H
Forever Twins
From: tmiller@prism.gatech.EDU (Thomas Miller)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
Subject: Some thoughts
Date: 15 Oct 92 19:41:28 GMT
Organization: Georgia Institute of Technology


  It's really amazing how...

*  some people on this group (and others not on the internet) hate the
     Braves just because they won the NLCS, or the Jays just because
     they won the ALCS              
*  others are getting into nationality issues with the U.S. and Canada


  It sickens me to see someone write, "Well, gee, I'll root for team
A because team B sucks since they beat team C, my choice." or "Gee,
I'll root for team D since team E is from another country, and well,
we just can't have _them_ winning!".


  I think that the Jays are a good team because they made it this far
after years of close misses, not because they're the first Canadian
team to win a LCS.  I think that the Braves are a good team because
they didn't give up - but they're also a lucky team (e.g. last night).
I think the Pirates are a good team because they almost came back from
times of 2-0 and 3-1 deficits in the series.  They just had some bad
breaks last night.  I know nothing about the Oakland A's so I have no
opinion on them.


  These are just ballgames.  We shouldn't drag hatred and bigotry into
them.





-- 
Thomas Miller      Georgia Tech Network Services        GT EE 1992 (?!) 
WORK: (404) 853-0254 / Rich Bldg Rm 127, 258 4th St  Atlanta, Ga. 30332
HOME: (404) 351-1017 / 1185 Collier Rd NW apt 2A     Atlanta, Ga. 30318 
Internet:  tmiller@prism.gatech.edu   or   thomas.miller@oit.gatech.edu
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
From: colinm@alfred.carleton.ca (Colin McFadyen)
Subject: Chop and chant
Organization: Carleton University
Date: Thu, 15 Oct 1992 20:20:14 GMT

  It sure seemed to work for the Braves in game seven but I don't
see how a low key chant can get the players and fans excited.
Watching the Jay's game, the fans were standing through the last
inning cheering very noisily with every Jay's hit and A's out.

  I think that the chop and chant may not be as effective as a
rowdy cheering crowd when that 10th man is needed.

-- 
Colin McFadyen -- Carleton U. Computing and Communications Services
Ottawa, Ontario, CANADA K1S 5B6                  
colinm@ccs.carleton.ca
From: traven+@pitt.edu (Neal Traven)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
Subject: Re: Baerga
Date: 7 Oct 92 15:16:28 GMT
Organization: University of Pittsburgh

In article <92280.115926RVESTERM@vma.cc.nd.edu> RVESTERM@vma.cc.nd.edu writes:
>1990 padre starting third basemen:
>
>       paul faries, 1 game
>       mike pagliarulo, 103 games
>       bip robers, 46 games
>       eddie williams, 12 games

Ahhhh, that explains it.  Duerk's lists 'primary' and 'secondary' positions
for players.  The Bipster is shown as a LF/2B, so he wasn't on the listing
of defensive games at 3B, since that's his 'tertiary' position.

I had checked for Jim Presley (Atlanta in 1990) and even Luis Salazar (Cubs).
Oh, also Tim Teufel (still with the Mets).

-- 
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
neal	traven+@pitt.edu	      You're only young once, but you can be
	traven@vms.cis.pitt.edu	       immature forever.   -- Larry Andersen
From: RVESTERM@vma.cc.nd.edu
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
Subject: Re: 15 Years of the Blue Jays
Date: 15 Oct 92 18:57:08 GMT
 <Bw5H46.L50@mentor.cc.purdue.edu>

i can't be sure, but i don't think that i've ever heard "the american
media saying for 15 years that a canadian team cannot and should not
ever make it to the world series."

recently, though, i've heard canadians say that the american media has
been saying that for 15 years.

i think you should take a little valium.  we're not out to get you.
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
From: swanger@accs.duc.auburn.edu (David Swanger)
Subject: Re: Was Bream Out?
Reply-To: swanger@accs.duc.auburn.edu
Organization: Sun Microsystems, Inc.
Date: Thu, 15 Oct 1992 15:42:12 GMT

#>From where I was watching the game (not real close to the TV),
#Sid Bream looked out or very very close to being out at home.
#Is it just me or what?
#   --bando

I thought he was out (and I'm a Braves fan).  However, when they showed
the replay from a different angle, he looked safe by, oh, an inch or
three.

David Swanger

Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
From: jld@cbnewsc.cb.att.com (J. L. David)
Subject: Re: Lind wins gold glove
Organization: AT&T
Distribution: na
Date: Fri, 16 Oct 1992 12:54:07 GMT

In article <92289.152735RAP115@psuvm.psu.edu>, <RAP115@psuvm.psu.edu> writes:
> And to make matters more unbelievable, it's been announced that Jose Lind
> has won the Gold Glove this season, ending Sandberg's reign of 9 years in
> a row.  This just makes it even more difficult to accept (the loss) - sigh!

Yeah, and Sandberg also had over 100 more assists than Lind this
year.  There have been years I thought Lind deserved the Gold Glove
more than Sandberg.  This wasn't one of them.

Jeff David
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
From: vince@sscl.uwo.ca
Subject: Blue Jays/Athletics Game six, inning 2+
Organization: Social Science Computing Laboratory
Date: Wed, 14 Oct 1992 19:52:19 GMT

Toronto, 2-0 after 1 inning; Henderson drops fly ball from White; Joe
         Carter 2-run HR;

Inning 3: W.Wilson strikes out leading off, reaches 1st on Passed
ball.
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
From: rsparks@boi.hp.com (Rob Sparks)
Subject: Who's winning game #6 - ALCS
Date: Wed, 14 Oct 1992 19:54:19 GMT
Organization: Hewlett-Packard / Boise, Idaho
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1.4 PL6]

Please keep us posted often, somebody!! Thanks