HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: kevin@CEB.McMaster.CA (Kevin Thorpe)
Subject: Re: Statement Condemning Musical Forms (was: is music amoral)
Organization: McMaster University, Hamilton, Ontario, Canada
Distribution: usa
Date: Mon, 17 Aug 1992 16:58:29 GMT

In article <1992Aug17.135834.10601@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu> jlaplant@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (John R Laplante) writes:
>Since we have recently talked (ad nauseum, to some) about various views on
>music that christians have had, I thought I should post this. It comes out
>of my filing cabinet, which I'm cleaning out. This is a statement taken
>from a national gathering of a nation-wide denomination/group. Since we're
> not into denomination-bashing around here, I'll remove any identifying
>information. Just look at the reasoning, instead.
>
>PLEASE NOTE: THESE ARE NOT MY OPINIONS
>
>  ---------------------- Begin National Group Statement ------------- 

[most of statement deleted]

>  Be it finally resolved that we strongly advise that careful scrutiny be
>  given to the music of our church fellowships and schools to be sure that
>  it follows the time-honored formula of great music -- beautiful melody,
>  glorious harmony, and flowing rhythm

A statement such as this is IMHO very subjective.  There are many hymns
in hymnbooks that I can't stand the music to.  They are hard to sing and
not very pleasing to my ears.  Why is the traditional music "sacred" and
conteporary not?  When the traditional music was written, was it not
contemporary?

Furthermore, if music is being used as a vehicle for the gospel, you won't
get very far with today's youth with the traditional music.  I suspect
many of them would just laugh and be on their way.

Who are we to decide what God can and cannot use?  The God I serve is not
limited by our human prejudices and limitations!

For example, we are not so quick to forgive someone who has betrayed us as
Jesus was.  Yet, Jesus took Peter back, and blessed him.  One might ask
how can God use such a week person as Peter who wouldn't even acknowledge
Jesus at one time.  God used him!

Instead of deciding what God can do with us, why not let God use us as
He has already decided!

Kevin Thorpe
From: trw@spl1.spl.loral.com (Tim R Witort)
Newsgroups: rec.music.christian
Subject: KKKKKKK Tonio K KKKKKKK
Date: 17 Aug 92 17:46:17 GMT
Organization: Loral Software Productivity Laboratory

Here's another interpretation puzzle for everyone....

For those familiar with Tonio K's album "Romeo Unchained"
(a stupedous albums IMHO), this line (approximately) comes 
from the song "You don't belong here":

   They cracked the code and surrounded the building at dawn,
   But but they had disappeared mysteriously.
   Meanwhile, the war rages on.

This line has always seemd out of place in this song and I
was wondering if anyone knew what it was supposed to be
saying and what it has to do with the rest of the song: someone
trying to get another out of a grungy, self-destructive life on
the streets.

-- Tim

;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;
; Tim Witort   |  If you'll take one look at the Savior, my friend, ;
; SPL Loral    |  you'll find His arms open wide. You'll find His   ;
;              |  arms open wide. -- Take 6                         ;
;-------------------------------------------------------------------;
;       My opinions are my own - not Loral's. Go figure!            ;
;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;
Newsgroups: rec.music.christian
From: gt9730a@prism.gatech.EDU (Bill Standhardt)
Newsgroups: rec.music.christian
Subject: Any word on the 77's rereleases
Keywords: Ping pong over the abyss, All fall down, & 77's
Date: 15 Aug 92 19:06:17 GMT
Organization: Georgia Institute of Technology

Hey, I'd heard that these three should be out anytime now.
I wanted to ask here before I bugged the guy at the store.


Thanks,

Bill


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
| Beldin Feldegast          Wouldn't it, couldn't it, shouldn't it be nice     |
| Georgia Tech              to be in love? Wouldn't it, couldn't it, shouldn't |
| gt9730a@prism.gatech.edu  it be nice to be above, all of the pain, and frust-|
| If I cared, I'd be        ration of being alone. Nobody, nobody, nobody likes|
| apathetic!!               to be chilled to the bone. - 77's                  |
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Newsgroups: rec.music.christian
From: anderson@cs.rose-hulman.edu. (Claude W. Anderson)
Subject: Breathe Deep and Give Peace a Chance
Organization: Rose-Hulman Institute of Technology
Date: Fri, 14 Aug 1992 13:57:28 GMT

Distribution: world

Am I going crazy, or is there a LOT of similarity between
"Breathe Deep", the last song on Lost Dogs' "Scenic Routes" CD and
"Give Peace a Chance" (by the Beatles, or was it just John and Yoko?)?

I haven't heard GPAC for a very long time, but whenever I hear BD,
GPAC comes floating into my head.  The overall organization and lyrical  
repetition patterns seem to be the same, as does the rhythm.  

Has anybody else noticed the same thing?  Do you think Terry Taylor was  
doing a deliberate answer to GPAC?  If so, it certainly won't be the first  
Beatles-sound-alike by Terry.  When I first heard "Man in the Moon" from the
Daniel Amos "Horrendous Disk" album, I was amazed at the degree of Beatles  
sound-alike that they achieved.

--
Claude Anderson
(812)877-8331
anderson@cs.rose-hulman.edu    -  NeXT mail welcome
From: wgorlitz@wiz.outb.wimsey.bc.ca (Walter Gorlitz)
Newsgroups: rec.music.christian
Subject: Re: Your Favorites Thus Far
Date: 11 Aug 92 22:31:54 PDT
Organization: Wizard Online

Haven't heard Circle of Dust, but I agree Mortification is good, but Holy Soldier is missing something.  The best song is their cover of the Stones' "Gimme Shelter."  I would put a big vote in for Magdallan.  They might
not be metal enough for your tastes, but the music is good.
walter

--- Via UCI v1.02 (C-Net Amiga)

wgorlitz@wiz.outb.wimsey.bc.ca.
% include standard.sig
From: gt5796b@prism.gatech.EDU (RICHARDS,JOHN CLARENCE)
Newsgroups: rec.music.christian
Subject: RE: Desert Island Quiz #2
Date: 22 Aug 92 16:27:03 GMT
Organization: Georgia Institute of Technology


> Question 1: You have a choice of up to 10 albums that you can have
> with you when you get to the island. What are your choices for music
> that you "just gotta have" with you?  This music can be any genre and
> any artist in the last, say 100 years. Your choices don't have to be
> in order of preference and need to include artist (s) and album title.
 
 Here's my vote:

>   Artist or Group			Album
 1. Bob Dylan      		    Blonde on Blonde
 2. Bob Dylan                       Blood on the Tracks
 3. The Clash                       London Calling
 4. The Kinks                       Arthur
 5. Nitty Gritty Dirt Band(&guests) Will the Circle Be Unbroken
 6. Rolling Stones                  Exile On Main Street
 7. T-Bone Burnett                  Truth Decay
 8. Woody Guthrie                   Dust Bowl Ballads
 9. Bruce Springstreen              Born In The U.S.A.
10. R.E.M.                          Eponymous

> Question 2: After about five years, you find out (via a letter in a
> bottle) that you can get a hold of new albums from 10 artists or
> groups of your choice; which artists would you want to catch up on?
> 
>			Artist
 1. T-Bone Burnett
 2. Elvis Costello
 3. R.E.M.
 4. Bob Dylan
 5. Public Enemy
 6. Bob Neuwirth
 7. Randy Stonehill
 8. Bruce Springsteen
 9. Paul Simon
10. ?


> has the best music of the career of one artist or group. If you had
> a choice, which artist or group would you choose?
  
 1. Bob Dylan
 2. Woody Guthrie
 3. The Clash
 4. Elvis Costello
 5. Hank Williams, Sr.
  
> Question 4: After a few more years, you get the chance to hear two
> groups in concert as their boat passes close by the island ( yes,
> its a really busy island :-) ); who would you want to hear and what
> songs  would you want them to play?
 
 1. Bob Dylan - Abandoned Love, When the Night Comes Falling, obscure covers
 2. T-Bone Burnett - stuff from Truth Decay, self-titled, the new album,
                     and obscure covers
 
> Please post all replies to this quiz on the net and have fun
> filling it out! :-)
 

-------------------------------------------------------------------
| John C. Richards             |  Obscenity, who really cares     |
| Georgia Tech                 |  Propaganda, all is phony.       |
| gt5796b@prism.gatech.edu     |                    Bob Dylan     |
-------------------------------------------------------------------
Newsgroups: rec.music.christian
From: sicotted@woods.ulowell.edu
Subject: radio station search
Organization: University of Lowell
Date: Fri, 14 Aug 1992 00:50:21 GMT

Hi there folks.  I've been reading this newsgroup off and on for awhile now,
and God forgive me, but I am so jealous of a large number of the posters!

I live in northeastern Massachusetts, and in the 21 years I've lived here
I've never been able to find a radio station that plays ANY kind of Christian
music:  rock, C.C.M., gospel, or otherwise.  Boston College has a Christian 
cable T.V. station I can get in Lowell, but there is rarely music on it.  

Does anyone know of a local radio station I've missed?  I'd prefer Christian
rock or C.C.M., but I'd be interested to know about any stations in my
range that plays Christian stuff.  I spend a lot of time listening to the
radio, and it would be cool if the music I'm listening to could be as 
uplifting to my spirit as it is fun to hear.

Thanks.
In Christ,
Dana

____________________________________________________________________________
(Signature under construction - please seek alternate routes)
____________________________________________________________________________
From: jlaplant@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (John R Laplante)
Newsgroups: rec.music.christian
Subject: Re: DEATH TO THE AMY THREADS! (MATW blurb, too)
Date: 12 Aug 92 13:20:22 GMT
Organization: The Ohio State University

In article <1992Aug12.032737.6157@cs.rose-hulman.edu> pearsodc@NeXTwork.Rose-Hulman.Edu (D) writes:
>
>
>I'm just saying, as a newsgroup, there is a LOT BETTER to talk about than  
>Amy Grant.  This debate has been raging ever since I started reading this  
>group a year ago.  It's about time everybody agreed to disagree and moved  
>on.  THIS IS NOT IMPORTANT STUFF.  Let Amy live Amy's life.  You live your  
>own life.  My salvation is more than enough for me to worry about as is.
>

   There are other topics which are a LOT BETTER to talk about than 
  Amy Grant? That's a personal opinion. Perhaps Amy is THE most important
  topic in the world.... (though not my position)

   THIS IS NOT IMPORTANT STUFF ?? 
   I profoundly disagree. This issue of 'career v. ministry,' 
   'what makes christian music christian' and 'how should a christian
   act in the world' (well, ok, three issues) is EXTREMELY important,
   and are perennial issues. 

   It's important to talk about these things now and then. Now perhaps we
   we have talked about enough for _now_.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------
john r la plante                    calling from the Ohio State University
jlaplant@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu  political analysis done while you wait
From: ralthoff@s.psych.uiuc.edu (Rob Althoff)
Subject: TANGENT: Re: Is music amoral??
Organization: Dept. of Psychology, Univ. of Illinois, Urbana
Date: Thu, 20 Aug 1992 21:31:43 GMT

In article <1992Aug20.165247.10161@ccd.harris.com> ras@controls.ccd.harris.com (Russell Soule) writes:

>I remember reading an article a while back (maybe 10 years ago) where a bunch
>of psychologists played a selection of songs backwards to two groups. They
>told the first group that they would hear drug and satanic references. They
>didn't tell that to the second group. Well, guess what. The first group
>heard all sorts of drug and satanic references and the second group didn't.
>
>Russ

We did an interesting demonstration with an introductory psychology
class.  If you play a song backwards, in this case _Another One Bites
the Dust_, and tell the students that they are to listen for verses in
the music, students generally say that they hear nothing.

Now you tell the students to listen for the phrase "Decide to smoke
marijuana" in the music and you find that almost all of them can hear it
in the music.  

We did this for several songs and I can't remember what the others were.
Suffice it to say that much of the phenomenon in backmasking (and I
won't say "all of the phenomenon" because I know much too little about
it) is due to a perceptual set.  By this, I mean a readiness or
preparedness to perceive a stimulus in a certain way.  The same thing
aplies to that famous picture that you may have seen that, when looked
at one way is an attractive young woman and, when looked at in another
way is an old lady.  If you tell the subject to look at this picture of
an old woman and tell you what color hair she has, the subject will see
the old woman, and visa-versa when told to look for the young woman.  It
is easy to see that this is a case of top-down processing where the
context of the situation requires you to see the picture (or hear the
music) in a certain way.  When not presented in the context of listening
for a certain string, one is likely to use bottom-up processing where
one tries to put together the aspects of the stimulus into a reasonable
context.  Since there may very well be no aspects of the stimulus that
can be created into words, one is likely to never hear "Decide to smoke
marijuana" without knowing that this is what one is supposed to hear.

Just a little side-note. If someone knows more about it and knows that I
am wrong, feel free to tell me and everyone else.

Thanks,
Rob
--
Rob Althoff
Neuroscience Program and College of Medicine
University of Illinois at Urbana-Champaign
email to : ralthoff@s.psych.uiuc.edu
From: snorthc@nswc.navy.mil (Stephen Northcutt)
Newsgroups: rec.music.christian
Subject: Re: Is music amoral??
Date: 18 Aug 92 11:30:07 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: NAVAL SURFACE WARFARE CENTER

>While we're on the subject of backward messages, I pose another question
>for discussion.  Why do we only hear of satanic messages in secular rock
>music and never hear Godly messages when the songs are played in reverse?

  Which brings to mind a most hilarious mental picture of satan-heads,
  communicating over a BBS, after having spent hours scanning their
  favorite-latest-album from Aluminum Sinker to find to their shock and
  horror a backmasked inversion hiding the following vocal virus: God is a
  good God  :-)

  Amoral, you want amoral music? ... try easy listening .... not available
  in stores, but hard to avoid in dentists offices.... and you wondered
  why you were afraid to go to the dentist....
  

- OBJ music content.  F-burg VA.  AUG 22 Carribean Praise, calypso,
reggae sort of music, very popular last time they were here.   AUG 29
season finale, Snow White, rock, hard and loud.  Shows at 8:00 PM 
===================================================================
Newsgroups: rec.music.christian
From: sco@aero.org (Stacey C. O'Brien)
Subject: Re: Kenneth Hagin Was Re: The Warnke Debate
Organization: The Aerospace Corporation, El Segundo, CA
Distribution: usa
Date: Thu, 13 Aug 1992 00:44:51 GMT

In article <1992Aug12.013448.23487@sol.UVic.CA> bdonison@bigbird.UVic.CA (Only AMIGA!) writes:
>In article <1992Aug7.054458.5875@galileo.physics.arizona.edu> krueger@galileo.physics.arizona.edu (Ted Krueger) writes:
>>
>>Begining to wonder if I am the only charismatic who reads this group,
>>
>>Ted
>>
>No, there are a few of us out there.
>Brad
>

me too. Charismatic and Kenneth Hagin are not synonyms however. To question
Kenneth Hagin's teachings is not the same as questioning the entire
Charismatic movement...

                 ---Stacey
From: uyeno@meetng.enet.dec.com (Alice Uyeno)
Newsgroups: rec.music.christian
Subject: Steve Camp album name
Date: 17 Aug 92 18:29:02 GMT
Reply-To: uyeno@meetng.enet.dec.com (Alice Uyeno)
Organization: Digital Equipment Corporation


Hi,

I'm trying to locate a tape that I once saw.  It's a tape by Steve Camp.  Does anybody have a listing of albums he released in the last several years?  I cannot remember the name, but I'm sure I'd recognize it if I saw it.


			Thanks,

			  Alice
From: paiz@Ingres.COM (A Rock-n-Roller, Spiritual, give me any day...)
Newsgroups: rec.music.christian
Subject: King's X
Date: 13 Aug 92 17:15:05 GMT
Organization: ASK Computer Systems, Ingres Product Division
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.4-b1

I finally got all the King's X cd's and they are all really good, though my 
favorite one continues to be _Faith, Hope, Love_. 

On the _Gretchen..._ cd they have a song called Over My Head that I absolutely 
loved when they played it at a concert. Played live it is definately better
than when the did it for the cd. therefore I was wondering if any
one has a tape of one of their concerts? Also, are there any bootleg tapes of 
them or anything that they recorded before they were signed?



thanks

erwin
paiz@ingres.com


ps. Although this is a music newsgroup, I really enjoy the tangent discussions 
that appear here. For the first place, you don't have to keep on going to the
dictionary to find out what polymory, dispensational, etc mean in order to be
able to follow what the post is saying. But then again there are some people 
who would like to keep the discussion only on the subject of music. 
Newsgroups: rec.music.christian
From: acb@moscom.UUCP (Amy Bourquin)
Newsgroups: rec.music.christian
Subject: Re: AMY AMY AMY AMY AMY AMY AMY AMY AMY AMY
Date: 12 Aug 92 20:57:02 GMT
Reply-To: acb@moscom.UUCP (Amy Bourquin)
Organization: Moscom Corp., Pittsford, NY

>How about a Kill file, like /Amy/h:j?

 Should I take this personally ? :) :)

 Amy B.
From: wgorlitz@wiz.outb.wimsey.bc.ca (Walter Gorlitz)
Newsgroups: rec.music.christian
Subject: Re: 7777777 Seventy Sevens 77777777
Date: 14 Aug 92 18:07:00 PDT
Organization: Wizard Online

The vocals sound straight to me.  I've often wondered what they're saying.  I've tried it forwards:
"dish shab-ba, dish shab-ba ye yip" is what is sounds like to me (I need my phonetics fonts to do it justice.
backwards:
"yee yah agh shee, agh shee"
It could be that they did listen to "we are all sheep, all sheep" backwards and have the vocalist say that, but why not ask Mike Roe?

walter

--- Via UCI v1.02 (C-Net Amiga)

             Signature?  I'm a Mac user, why do I need a signature?
 wgorlitz@wiz.outb.wimsey.bc.ca       walter gorlitz       a416@mindlink.bc.ca
Newsgroups: rec.music.christian
Subject: Re: Need a Scripture reference
From: jmdeyoung@acs.harding.edu
Date: 13 Aug 92 10:04:29 -0500
Reply-To: jmdeyoung@acs.harding.edu
Organization: Harding University

In article <1992Aug13.133829.3829@cs.cornell.edu>, lmc@cs.cornell.edu (Linda Marie Competillo) writes:
>
>Yes, this IS sort of music-related. Can anyone give me a scripture 
>reference to back up a claim I heard last night that Satan was "in charge" 
>of the music in heaven before his fall? I'd sure appreciate a reply today
>if someone's got it.
>
>Thanks bunches,
>
>  Linda 

If someone gives you the scripture for that I would like to see the Bible they
got it from.  Very interesting.!!!

In Him,
Mark
Newsgroups: rec.music.christian
From: Thomas R. Blake <tblake@bingsuns.cc.binghamton.edu>
Subject: "Thank God I'm a Methodist"  (Lyrics anyone?)
Organization: Binghamton University
X-Xxdate: Fri, 14 Aug 92 00:36:24 GMT
X-Useragent: Nuntius v1.1.1d7
Date: Fri, 14 Aug 1992 23:25:58 GMT
X-Posted-From: macii.cc.binghamton.edu
X-Posted-Through: sol.ctr.columbia.edu

Folks,

    Okay, recently I heard someone struggling to remember lyrics they had
heard to "Thank God I'm a Methodist" (sung to the tune of John Denver's
"Thank God I'm a Country Boy").  Well, from the lyrics I heard it sounded
like the author(s) had my denomination fairly well pegged.

    Does anyone know all of the lyrics to this tune?  (Who wrote it?  Who
performed/performs it?)

Tom Blake
Binghamton University
Binghamton, NY (USA)
From: crawford@ben.dev.upenn.edu (Lauren L. Crawford)
Newsgroups: rec.music.christian
Subject: Re: Do We Need a New newsgroup? (was Re: Those Nasty Fundamentalists)
Date: 13 Aug 92 16:44:06 GMT
Organization: University of Pennsylvania

In article <1992Aug13.144317.22359@meaddata.com> mcr@meaddata.com (Mary Ries) writes:
>
>I have tried reading and posting to soc.religion.christian... but for
>reasons I can't easily pinpoint, I don't really get much out of that
>group.  Its like my topics don't "fit".  Maybe there is too much
>doctrine discussed there? All kinds of historical stuff that are way
>too deep for me, I feel like I need a degree in theology to post
>there. Maybe I have a distorted perception.
>
>I do like the fact that we almost always work out disagreements here
>in a loving way (eventually ;), and I think we're getting better and
>better at it! What does everyone else think?  Why don't we take
>tangent discussions to soc.religion.christian? Do we need a new
>newsgroup?  Where would it belong? What should it be called,
>rec.music.christian.tangent?  ;)
>


I agree with the perceptions about soc.religion.christian ... I think
one of the things I like so much about this group is that it
is not moderated.  The other is so heavily moderated that spontenaity
seems lost, and I dislike reading the moderator's views interjected
so liberally into other people's posts.

There are a lot of things discussed in this newsgroup that I've 
really enjoyed and benefitted from reading that don't directly
deal with a Christian musician or music group.  I've been asked
by at least one person via e-mail to not post to such threads, so
I know there are people out there who want Christian music and
nothing else discussed in this group.  

What about a group called rec.arts.christian?  That would include
things like the L'Engle discussion and the Christians-in-the-arts
image discussion (which started with Amy G. but broadened
considerably); we could also set it up with the premise that 
it wouldn't be moderated, in case threads broaden to include
discussions not directly related to the arts, but that we would
at least attempt to steer discussion back to that topic
occasionally.

Any thoughts?


-- 
Lauren Crawford  //  crawford@ben.dev.upenn.edu
"Happy campers you are, happy campers you have been, and as far as I'm
concerned, happy campers you will always be."
                  --J. Danforth Quayle in American Samoa