HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: mparikh@uceng.UC.EDU (Mehul Parikh)
Subject: Inquiry
Organization: College of Engineering, University of Cincinnati
Date: Mon, 14 Sep 1992 05:49:39 GMT

Hi!

I have heard a lot about Scientology. Mixed reviews. The local Scientology
chapter has been sending me a lot of brochures with information on their
courses. 

I have heard that Tom Cruise (who says he gained from it, he became more 
himself, he uses the Scientology-develiped sound system for his movies),
Christy Alley (spell?) (who lost weight using their body-clear approach),
John Travolta are few of the celebrity Scientologists.

Personally, I have never supported any religion that propagates a person as
a superior human being to be blindly followed for his ideology, because 
(1) everything is relative, (2) there is always a room for improvement to any 
idea and (3) the belief that if something is good, it will catch on on its
own. No hard-sell is necessary. The religions that do hard-selling do so,
because they HAVE TO.

I would rather learn an ideology that suits anyone irrepective of one's
background etc. rather than follow a "guru" who promises me a better life,
if I pay him for some of his services that claim to make me "more me".

Since, I have no previous experience with any such religion before (I am an
atheist), all I can conclude from my brief exposure to Scientology is that
there is a lot of emphasis on secrecy, and hence I don't (can't) know much
about Scientology wihtout joining the church.

Without making any biased judgement, I would like to know more My questions:

(1) The church of Scientology charges substantial amount of money for its
	services. How is this money used for a non-profit activity? Does it go 
	to any charity? OR is it used internally to re-generate the funds to
	propagate the Scientology ideology?

(2) After L. Ron Hubbard who is running the show? 

(3) If any of you have had any exposure to Scientology, can you share your
	experience with me? I would like to know, how you benefitted (or not)
	from the Church. 

Thanks a lot.

-M. Parikh
Newsgroups: alt.religion.scientology
Subject: Mind and Brain
From: lindsay+@cs.cmu.edu (Donald Lindsay)
Date: Tue, 8 Sep 1992 02:08:57 GMT
Organization: School of Computer Science, Carnegie Mellon


Since Scientology courses teach about the human mind, some of you out
there might care to pick up the latest Scientific American.  S.A. put
out a special issue on the brain: hopefully the next issue hasn't
already supplanted it on the shelves.

I know that the Church's teachings are that not all of Mind comes
from the brain. However, there's a lot of fascinating evidence to
look over. For example, physical damage can leave a musician able to
play scales, and able to enjoy listening to music, but unable to play
music. Hmmm!
-- 
Don		D.C.Lindsay 	Carnegie Mellon Computer Science
Newsgroups: alt.religion.scientology,alt.recovery
From: gisle@ifi.uio.no (Gisle Hannemyr)
Subject: Re: Narconon Chilocco in Oklahoma
Organization: gisle@ifi.uio.no
Date: Tue, 15 Sep 1992 14:07:58 GMT
Originator: gisle@drott.ifi.uio.no

In article <exuptr.538.716422621@exu.ericsson.se> exuptr@exu.ericsson.se (exuptr@exu.ericsson.se) writes:

> Is there somewhere we can write to give evidence on these matters?

They already have a _very_ long list of personal testimonials from
people who say things like:

  "After doing drugs for so long my morals were in the trash.  This
   course thought me about honor and pride which will bring pleasure
   and happiness to my life."

... so if this is the sort of "evidence" you are thinking about
presenting, I don't think it will make much difference.

On the other hand, if you are sitting on unpublished data from a long
term clinical study with adequately designed controls, I am sure there
is a number of interested parties (included me) who would be very
interested in hearing about it.




--
Disclaimer: My employer seldom even LISTENS to my opinion.
 
- gisle hannemyr  (Norsk Regnesentral)
  OSI:   C=no;PRMD=uninett;O=nr;S=Hannemyr;G=Gisle (X.400 SA format)
         gisle.hannemyr@nr.no                      (RFC-822  format)
  Inet:  gisle@ifi.uio.no
  UUCP:  ...!mcsun!ifi!gisle
------------------------------------------------

Newsgroups: alt.religion.scientology
From: gisle@ifi.uio.no (Gisle Hannemyr)
Subject: Re: Inquiry
Organization: gisle@ifi.uio.no
Date: Tue, 15 Sep 1992 14:59:36 GMT
Originator: gisle@drott.ifi.uio.no

In article <1992Sep14.054939.8631@uceng.UC.EDU> mparikh@uceng.UC.EDU (Mehul Parikh) writes:
> (3) If any of you have had any exposure to Scientology, can you share your
> experience with me? I would like to know, how you benefitted (or not)
> from the Church. 

In Norway, there exists a recovery organization for former members of the
Church of Scientology, and I believe the existence of such an organization
says a lot about the possible "benefits" of joining the Church.

I have had no personal experience with Scientology, and my main
exposure is through a friend who joined the Church.  In my opinion,
this person's personality deteriorated after he joined the Church (we
are not seeing each other any more, and as far as I know, he is not
seeing _any_ of his former friends).

His own personal opinion of the Scientologic experience was positive.
While we still were social, he would claim great intellectual and
emotional gains.  These gains were not evident to me, and by any
outside measure (career, social life, financially, etc.), he had no
benefits from the Church.  On the contrary he suffered some economic
hardship because he bought services from the church beyond his
resources.

To accomodate my friend's proselyting (and out of general interest), I
have read some Scientology literature (i.e. various non-science-
fiction books my the founder of the Church, L. Ron Hubbard).  To me it
all sounded pretty harmless -- pompous, rambling, incoherent, and
sometimes downright silly -- but harmless.  It is beyond me why anyone
can take LRH's pretentious mock-science soup seriously, so I've
obviously missed something fundamental (since there are so many people
who takes it seriously -- down to chapter and verse).


--
Disclaimer: My employer seldom even LISTENS to my opinion.
 
- gisle hannemyr  (Norsk Regnesentral)
  OSI:   C=no;PRMD=uninett;O=nr;S=Hannemyr;G=Gisle (X.400 SA format)
         gisle.hannemyr@nr.no                      (RFC-822  format)
  Inet:  gisle@ifi.uio.no
  UUCP:  ...!mcsun!ifi!gisle
------------------------------------------------

Newsgroups: alt.religion.scientology,alt.recovery
From: rogue@ccs.northeastern.edu (Free Radical)
Newsgroups: alt.religion.scientology
Subject: Re: Electra?  Are you still around?
Date: 8 Sep 92 21:19:09 GMT
Organization: Comp. Sci. @ NU

In article <lalq5iINN2f4@phad.hsc.usc.edu> lfreeman@phad.hsc.usc.edu
(Leny Freeman) writes: 
[...]
>
>It appears as though many have lost their interest in Scientology
>bashing. BFD.  

Naw, we're just sitting around waiting for the next nutty claim you
guys make.

	RA

rogue@ccs.northeastern.edu
--------------------------
The NSA is now funding research not only in cryptography, but in all areas
of advanced mathematics. If you'd like a circular describing these new
research opportunities, just pick up your phone, call your mother, and
ask for one.
Xref: sparky alt.religion.scientology:1983 alt.recovery:3199
From: exuptr@exu.ericsson.se (exuptr@exu.ericsson.se)
Newsgroups: alt.religion.scientology,alt.recovery
Subject: Re: Narconon Chilocco in Oklahoma
Date: 15 Sep 92 16:09:40 GMT
Organization: Ericsson Network Systems, Inc.

In article <GISLE.92Sep15150758@drott.ifi.uio.no> gisle@ifi.uio.no (Gisle Hannemyr) writes:
>From: gisle@ifi.uio.no (Gisle Hannemyr)
>Subject: Re: Narconon Chilocco in Oklahoma
>Date: 15 Sep 92 14:07:58 GMT

>In article <exuptr.538.716422621@exu.ericsson.se> exuptr@exu.ericsson.se (exuptr@exu.ericsson.se) writes:

>> Is there somewhere we can write to give evidence on these matters?

>They already have a _very_ long list of personal testimonials from
>people who say things like:

>  "After doing drugs for so long my morals were in the trash.  This
>   course thought me about honor and pride which will bring pleasure
>   and happiness to my life."

>... so if this is the sort of "evidence" you are thinking about
>presenting, I don't think it will make much difference.

Um, no.  More like "These people sucked me dry and spit me out like a
watermelon seed."

>On the other hand, if you are sitting on unpublished data from a long
>term clinical study with adequately designed controls, I am sure there
>is a number of interested parties (included me) who would be very
>interested in hearing about it.

Sorry.
 ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
    "This must be Thursday.  I never could get the hang of Thursdays"
                                                       - Douglas Adams
  - Patrick Taylor                                       (Arthur Dent)
    Ericsson Network Systems
    exuptr@exu.ericsson.se                       "Don't let the .se fool you"
    or exuptr@ZGNews.Lonestar.Org, exu.exuptr@memo.ericsson.se
Newsgroups: alt.religion.scientology
From: lindsay+@cs.cmu.edu (Donald Lindsay)
Subject: Re: Inquiry
Organization: School of Computer Science, Carnegie Mellon
Date: Tue, 15 Sep 1992 02:11:51 GMT


mparikh@uceng.UC.EDU (Mehul Parikh) writes:
>..Tom Cruise .. Christy Alley (spell?) .. John Travolta ..

The Church's celebrity list also includes Karen Black and a famous
jazz musician. Rather than comment on these people, I'd like to
comment on the list itself. It contains no famous scientists, nor
famous chess players, or in fact anyone who owes his fame to clear
thinking or high IQ. 

If we were talking about (say) EST, then that wouldn't be a
particularly relevant insight. However, we're talking about
Scientology, which makes a considerable point about how being "clear"
would improve e.g. IQ and chess playing.

>..all I can conclude from my brief exposure to Scientology is that
>there is a lot of emphasis on secrecy,

Not at the low-to-intermediate levels. I believe that everything below
OT III is public knowledge. 

>(1) The church of Scientology charges substantial amount of money for its
>services. How is this money used for a non-profit activity? Does it go 
>to any charity? OR is it used internally to re-generate the funds to
>propagate the Scientology ideology?

There are two conficting stories here. One is that the funds are used
to support the international growth of the various organizations. The
other is that the money is funnelled up the organizational pyramid to
the very peak, where it vanishes into lavish living and faraway bank
accounts. Since the books aren't public, it's hard to really get a
grip on this one.

Some monetary things are well-known, however. For instance, the local
organizations do send money in towards the center, leaving little to
support their own needs. I've heard this from committed, active
Scientologists as well as from disgruntled ones. The money certainly
doesn't go to the low-level staff.

>(2) After L. Ron Hubbard who is running the show? 

David Miscavige. Apparently he was born into the Church, and rose to
power, rather than coming in from an outside life.

>I would like to know, how you benefitted (or not) from the Church. 

Many people claim to have benefitted, and they can't all be wrong.
This is because auditing is a form of counselling, and all forms of
counselling are often of benefit to someone. Some people benefit from
the social interaction of club membership: science fiction clubs have
a certain reputation. Some bartenders do good work, too.
-- 
Don		D.C.Lindsay 	Carnegie Mellon Computer Science
From: sdb@ssr.com (Scott Ballantyne)
Subject: Sources for recent articles
Followup-To: alt.religion.scientology
Organization: ScotSoft Research
Date: Mon, 14 Sep 1992 20:13:59 GMT

I got some mail from David Bonnell (davidb@engin.umich.edu) asking me
where I got the information for the articles on scientology front
groups and the Narconon Chilloco information.  I had thought it was
clear in the articles, but apparently not.

Front group info based on article in Psychiatric News/August7, 1992.

The Narconon Chilloco stuff originated at the Oklahoma State Board of
Health.

Mr. Bonnell (a scientologist of some small notoriety) also asked me
what I do for a living.  I teach the watusi, Mr. Bonnell.

Incidentally, our news feed is running 10 days to a week behind...,
anyone with an urgent need to communicate with me should use mail.

sdb
---
sdb@ssr.com

Newsgroups: alt.religion.scientology
From: hughes@unixg.ubc.ca (Ken Hughes)
Subject: Re: Vault
Organization: none
Date: Wed, 16 Sep 1992 02:41:03 GMT

<37982@sdcc12.ucsd.edu> sboswell@sdcc13.ucsd.edu (Xianity is stupid) writes:
>I've got an article on that from the San Diego Union-Tribune,
>which is pretty short, so if y'all are interested, I'll type it
>in and post it.
>
>Steve Boswell

Yes Steve. Please do.
k

Newsgroups: alt.religion.scientology
From: das9674@usl.edu (Stephenson Daniel A)
Subject: Re: Vault
Organization: University of Southwestern Louisiana
Date: Thu, 10 Sep 1992 06:29:52 GMT

In article <Bu8L0H.8oD.2@cs.cmu.edu> lindsay+@cs.cmu.edu (Donald Lindsay) writes:
>
>Found in "Science Fiction Chronicle" Aug/Sep 1992 p.14
>
>"The Pittsburgh Post-Gazette (in pre-strike days) reported that a
>huge underground vault 25' wide and longer than a football field was
>recently completed, at a cost of more than $7 million and 18 months
>of construction, outside the California town of Petrolia, to house
>the writings of L. Ron Hubbard. The impregnable vault of the ages is
>designed to last for 1,000 years."

Wow, the font point size must be HUGE!
>-- 
>Don		D.C.Lindsay 	Carnegie Mellon Computer Science


--
Dan Stephenson                                           das9674@usl.edu
" BERLIN WALL FALLS.  3 BORDER GUARDS LOSE JOBS.  CLINTON BLAMES BUSH! "
        -George Bush, '92 Republican nomination acceptance speech
From: lfreeman@phad.hsc.usc.edu (Leny Freeman)
Newsgroups: alt.religion.scientology
Subject: Re: Electra?  Are you still around?
Date: 6 Sep 1992 22:29:22 -0700
Organization: University of Southern California, Los Angeles, CA
NNTP-Posting-Host: phad.hsc.usc.edu

In article <3SEP199212582005@utkvx2.utk.edu> menees@utkvx2.utk.edu (Menees, Bill) writes:
>	I'm back with a VAX account here at school, and I haven't been able to
>use USENET all summer.  But I see now that there hasn't been much traffic here.
>I am wondering though if Electra has posted anything new recently.  If so I
>would like to get it.  I know there were no new posts for many months last
>semester, and I just hope the Cof$ didn't "shut him down".  That would piss me
>off.

It appears as though many have lost their interest in Scientology
bashing. BFD.  Why are you so interested in Electra?  Are you
interested in Scientology without the 'church influence'?  That can be
accomplished without engaging in false information which squirrels
like Electra promote.  email back.

> Well, if anyone knows if he/she is okay I would appreciate a note.
> >Thanks!  >Bill Menees
Newsgroups: alt.religion.scientology
Subject: Vault
From: lindsay+@cs.cmu.edu (Donald Lindsay)
Date: Tue, 8 Sep 1992 01:48:16 GMT
Organization: School of Computer Science, Carnegie Mellon


Found in "Science Fiction Chronicle" Aug/Sep 1992 p.14

"The Pittsburgh Post-Gazette (in pre-strike days) reported that a
huge underground vault 25' wide and longer than a football field was
recently completed, at a cost of more than $7 million and 18 months
of construction, outside the California town of Petrolia, to house
the writings of L. Ron Hubbard. The impregnable vault of the ages is
designed to last for 1,000 years."
-- 
Don		D.C.Lindsay 	Carnegie Mellon Computer Science
From: sboswell@sdcc13.ucsd.edu (Xianity is stupid)
Newsgroups: alt.religion.scientology
Subject: Re: Vault
Date: 12 Sep 92 17:31:21 GMT
Organization: University of California, San Diego

In article <1992Sep10.062952.14380@usl.edu> das9674@usl.edu (Stephenson Daniel A) writes:
>>Found in "Science Fiction Chronicle" Aug/Sep 1992 p.14
>>
>>"The Pittsburgh Post-Gazette (in pre-strike days) reported that a
>>huge underground vault 25' wide and longer than a football field was
>>recently completed, at a cost of more than $7 million and 18 months
>>of construction, outside the California town of Petrolia, to house
>>the writings of L. Ron Hubbard. The impregnable vault of the ages is
>>designed to last for 1,000 years."

I've got an article on that from the San Diego Union-Tribune,
which is pretty short, so if y'all are interested, I'll type it
in and post it.

Steve Boswell
whatis@ucsd.edu
Purif graduate!!!!!!!!!!
Newsgroups: alt.tla
From: u910996@bruny.cc.utas.edu.au (Delroy Hartley)
Subject: CFV for alt.etla
Organization: University of Tasmania, Australia
Date: Mon, 14 Sep 1992 19:34:39 GMT

I think we need another UNG (usenet newsgroup) devoted specifically to ETLAs.
Why should TLAs get their own UNG whilst ETLAs are LITC (left in the cold).
I'd do something about it myself but it's alread AFA (after five am.)

YLD  (yo later dudes)
Delroy Hartley
u910996@bruny.cc.utas.edu.au
"Putting the F back into TP"
From: kight@cis.rand.org
Newsgroups: alt.appalachian
Subject: Re: civil war connections
Date: 4 Sep 92 22:08:10 GMT
Reply-To: kight@cis.rand.org
Organization: RAND, Santa Monica CA

In  <1992Sep3.203559.1454@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu> Gemma McLuckie writes:
  >>
  >> One of my family's legends involves Peyton Burns, who during the
  >> Civil War (it is said) went out one morning after breakfast to chop
  >> wood on his Eastern Kentucky farm and didn't walk back in the kitchen
  >> again until after Lee surrendered.  When he showed up, he was
  >>carrying an armful of firewood.
  >>
  >> [Rest of really neat stuff deleted for brevity...]

What a wonderful story!  My family's story is as follows (I don't really
know too much about it but my Mother is EXTREMELY proud of this):

My great-great-something-or-other George Jacobs joined the Confederate
Army in NC.  He came home on furlough to find that his wife had run off
with a yankee captain leaving their four-year-old son with friends.
George didn't like that so he took his son, John Jacobs, with him back to
the army and signed him up as a drummer boy.  He lied about the boy's age -
said he was six which was the youngest the confederates would accept boys
as drummers.  So, supposedly John Jacobs was the youngest "soldier" in the
Confederate Army.

Don't know if it's true, and I'm not even sure if George was the dad and
John was the son (might be the other way around), but it still makes for a
neat story, doncha think?

Anne
From: Fred.Homan@bbs.oit.unc.edu (Fred Homan)
Newsgroups: alt.appalachian
Subject: Re: Alt.Appalachian User Poll
Date: 11 Sep 92 16:49:38 GMT
Organization: Extended Bulletin Board Service

>: 2) Where are you presently living? 
>Alexandria VA -- actually that's where I'm now living.  I have no idea
>where I will be living presently (look it up!) but an seriously thinking
>of looking in the Blacksburg VA area.

	Oh, no!  Another person about to be sucked into the Bleaksburg Vortex
from which no one ever escapes (Well, maybe that's a bit of an exagerration.)!
*grin*  Seriously, though, Blacksburg is a nice place to live.

Fred Op

--
   The opinions expressed are not necessarily those of the University of
     North Carolina at Chapel Hill, the Campus Office for Information
        Technology, or the Experimental Bulletin Board Service.
           internet:  bbs.oit.unc.edu or 152.2.22.80
Organization: Arizona State University
Date: Wednesday, 9 Sep 1992 08:38:15 MST
From: <AQMPH@ASUACAD.BITNET>
Newsgroups: alt.appalachian
Subject:    RE:Death traditions

I read about Marie Parsons' research in the Charleston (WV) Gazette when I was
home for a visit a couple of weeks ago.  She teaches at Prestonburg Community
College and studies mountain traditions and lore surrounding funerals.  She
talks about wakes (the most common of these traditions) where someone sits up
all night with the dead.  She said "A group of people would sit up all night.
In many cases they would let th emost immediate family go to bed.  It just
didn't seem right to leave the dead alone.  It was out of respect."  Today some
funeral homes in the mountains and some churches still arrange to have families
remain all night with the bodies.  She also mentioned the feather crown.  She
said the objects are said to mysteriously form -- supposedly with no human
involvement -- in connection with a soul's departure for heaven.  She said
she has seen one of these crowns.  "It's a round object made of feathers.  The
feathers are not just randomly knotted together.  It looks like an artistic
creation.

Other customs include burials in family cemeteries and placement of headstones
facing east.  The latter is because "A lot of mountain people put faith in
a literal resurrection.  When Christ returns for the second coming.  He will
split the eastern sky.  They want to be facing Him when they rise".

In the article she also mentioned ghost stories in the mountains.  She said
few mountain people believe in ghosts, though stories abound.  Parsons said
one elderly Floyd County woman interviewed for the project told how her father
went out in the middle of the night and saw a neighbor who had been on her
deathbed the day before standing across the river.  The father went in and
noticed it was 2 a.m. The next morning there was a knock at the door.  It was
grim news:  The neighbor had died at 2 a.m.  These are fascinating stories that
need to be remembered.  They're such a part of who we are".

Mary
Newsgroups: alt.appalachian
From: FURRJK@vtvm1.cc.vt.edu
Newsgroups: alt.appalachian
Subject: Alt.Appalachian User Poll
Date: 8 Sep 92 15:45:45 GMT
Organization: The Ohio State University Department of Computer and Information Science


Listen up!  It's the alt.appalachian user poll!

Please answer the following questions, and post your responses to the net
(don't mail them to me, post them to alt.appalachian for all to read!):

1) Where were you born and/or raised?  Outside Appalachia, or if you were born
and/or raised in Appalachia, where?

2) Where are you presently living?  Outside Appalachia, or if you are
presently living in Appalachia, where?

3) What do you like best about the Appalachian region, either specific to one
location or generally?

4) What do you like least about the Appalachian region, either specific to one
location or generally?

I look forward to reading your responses.  Please be creative!

------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Joel Furr                                                   jfurr@vtvm1.vt.edu
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
                           alt.appalachian -- try it!
From: FURRJK@vtvm1.cc.vt.edu
Newsgroups: alt.appalachian
Subject: poll
Date: 8 Sep 92 15:44:31 GMT
Organization: The Ohio State University Department of Computer and Information Science

I'm shortly going to compile a digest of the poll responses.  If you need
a copy of the poll, I've reposted it.  Please post your responses to the
net between now and Saturday, September 12.  Sometime on Sunday, I'm going
to wade through it all and try to compile the results.
From: bh419@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Ted B Samsel)
Newsgroups: alt.appalachian
Subject: AFLC
Date: 10 Sep 1992 13:08:00 GMT
Organization: Case Western Reserve University, Cleveland, Ohio (USA)
NNTP-Posting-Host: hela.ins.cwru.edu


The American FolkLife Center at the Library of Congress has been
highlighting the New River Valley folklife project in its recent
pubs. Lots of stuff on Aplchn. vernacular architecture. Will send
posted citation if interest warrants.
-- 
Ted....