From: CBARNES@tamvm1.tamu.edu (Chris Barnes)
Newsgroups: rec.pets.dogs
Subject: Re: Obedience v. Breed
Date: Mon, 21 Dec 92 09:54:00 CST
Organization: Texas A&M University
NNTP-Posting-Host: tamvm1.tamu.edu

In article <1992Dec21.151041.16648@inel.gov>
    kte@INEL.GOV (Kathryn L Cook) writes:
 
>First of all I agree that the dogs you see in the breed ring for some breeds
>are no longer being bred with consideration for their original purpose.  But
>I don't see how this is *just* the fault of the show breeder.
 
   ......stuff deleted......
 
>Just a question - Has this always been true, or have the Goldens' hunting
>abilities decreased since they became such a popular breed?
 
In a post that I had after you sent yours (but before I read yours),
I acknowledged just this point.
 
>|> Lots of questions about conformation background, coat color, eye color,
>|> size, etc.  All that is fine, as those are reasonable questions.  Not a
>|> single question about hunting titles, parent's hunting ability, etc.
>|> This is *not* fine.
>|>
>|> Girl: We would like the lightest color female you have.  We'll put a
>|>       check in the mail tomorrow.
>
>Doesn't sound like much of a conformation person to me, since she didn't ask
>anything about health (OFA etc) and color(?????????) was her #1 criteria.
 
Actually, OFA, CERF, and a health guarantee were included in the "etc."
portion of her questions.
 
 
>You have to remember that alot of people who say they are show people aren't
>really. Oh they may pay their entry fee and they may show their dogs, but
>this does not necessarily mean that they know anything about their breed,
>how to show a  dog, or what makes a quality dog.
 
(example deleted).  I'll concede your point.  Just as there are hunting
test people that only enter their dogs in Junior (or even the
puppy stakes which we hold just for fun), I am sure that there are people
that only "play" at the shows.
 
 
>|> Do you see the problem she has?  It's not that she was a golden person.
>|> It's that she was a show person.  She didn't give a squat about the
>|> purpose of the breed.  And that is typical of show people.  And that's
>|> why I don't like the conformation ring.
>|>
>That is not necessarily typical. If I judged hunters, by some of the
>hunters I know of in my area, my opinion of all hunters might be as
>unbalanced as your opinion of all show people.  Something that happens quite
>often around here is for people to steal sporting dogs from people's
>homes/kennels and even the field, use them during the season, then either
>dump them, kill them, or take them to the pound.  Despicable, but true. Chris,
>should I judge all hunters on the actions of these folks?
 
Your point is well taken, and I shouldn't have attacked "show people"
by making a generalization based on a person (or even a group of people).
I should have stuck with a judgement of the event (the show ring), and
I still feel that the event, as it is run today, is a detriment to the
working breeds.  And the golden retriever is a good example of that.
 
      -----------------------------------------------------
Chris Barnes            |   President - Bryan/College Station
cbarnes@tamvm1.tamu.edu |         Retriever Club.
(409) 846-3273 (home)   |   "Dedicated to the betterment of
(409) 845-4437 (work)   |               the retrieving breeds"