HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: hllhar01@uctvax.uct.ac.za
Newsgroups: soc.culture.african
Subject: Re: Olympics
Date: 28 Jul 92 11:05:26 +0200
Organization: University of Cape Town

In article <fpyxt0n@rpi.edu>, adelaf@rs6124.ecs.rpi.edu (Festus Adelabu) writes:
> 
> The Olympic games recently began and I wonder :
> Have any African cities bidded to host the games ever? If not, why not?
> Is #there a #conspiracy against potential African host nations or is the 
> continent simply uninterested?  It seems to me that there is a lot to gain 
> from hosting the games - recognition, economic boost, tourism, new 
> infra-structure etc.  They host city is left practically brand new and 
> substantially richer after the games.  Some countries are hosting the games 
> two and three times upon recognizing the benefits.(eg. U.S.) 

I know that initially there was talk of Johannesburg, Cape Town and Durban
bidding for the next Olympic games. As far as I know, Cape Town at least is
still in the running, but I haven't heard anything about this for a long time.

Unfortunately, before any city can host the games, it has to meet a large
number of preconditions (involving security arrangements, transport
infrastructure, etc.). African cities in general are a long way from being in
the position to meet these conditions, and getting any African city into the
kind of shape where it can realistically hope to secure the Olympics will just
cost too much for the countries we're talking about.

> Festus Adelabu
> Rensselaer

Hardy Hulley
UCT
Newsgroups: soc.culture.african
From: vamg6792@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (Vincent A Mazzarella)
Subject: UPI: Tutu condemns attakcs on police; urges ANC back to talks
Organization: University of Illinois at Urbana
Date: Sat, 25 Jul 1992 01:29:55 GMT



	JOHANNESBURG (UPI) -- Noble Peace Prize laureate Desmond Tutu
condemned Friday continuing attacks on South African police and called
for the urgent resumption of stalled talks to end violence and prepare
for democratic elections.
	``In accordance with the church's condemnation of all violence, I
want to condemn in the strongest of terms the ongoing spate of attacks
against members of the (South African) police,'' Tutu, leader of South
Africa's Anglican Church, said in a statement released by his office.
	The 1984 Noble laureate said the attacks on police officers, which
have claimed 121 lives since January, underlined the ``urgent necessity
to get on with the business of negotiating a legitimate and
democratically acceptable government.''
	Tutu's statement followed less than a day after four policemen were
gunned down and others attacked in what senior police officers have
described as politically motivated attacks.
	The police's role in black township violence is one of the main
issues hindering South Africa's progress toward democracy.
	The African National Congress withdrew June 23 from multiparty
negotiations aimed at a new non-racist constitution, alleging police and
government involvement in politically motivated violence that has
claimed more than 6,000 lives since President Frederik de Klerk embarked
on his reform program in 1990.
	Police have denied involvement in or instigation of township
violence, and claim they are innocents caught in the crossfire as South
Africa's rival black organizations clash in bloody power struggles in
the country's townships.
	But a report by a top British academic, commissioned by the white-
minority government and released Thursday, found police investigations
and reponse to June's Boipatong massacre, which saw more than 40 people
killed, were inadequate.
	The latest slaying of police officers took place Thursday night on
the outskirts of the Indian Ocean city of Durban, 375 miles south of
Johannesburg. Three officers were gunned down and a fourth officer died
in an exchange of gunfire with an army patrol in a black township east
of Johannesburg.
	The lone detective allegedly opened fire on the soldiers as they
patrolled a railway station in Thokoza township Thursday night, police
spokesman W.O. Andy Pieke said in a telephone interview.
	Pieke said the 31-year-old black policeman died when the soldiers
returned his fire.
	``His motives for firing on the army patrol are unknown,'' Pieke
said, adding the incident would be investigated to establish the exact
chain of events.
	Police Friday also reported at least four other attacks on officers
in townships throughout South Africa. No serious injuries were reported
in the incidents, in which police came under attack with bullets, stones
and gasoline bombs.

-- 
Vincent Mazzarella
University of Illinois College of Medicine, Urbana
e-mail:  mazz@vmd.cso.uiuc.edu  (Internet)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.african,sanet.talk.politics
From: ccfj@hippo.ru.ac.za (F. Jacot Guillarmod)
Subject: Re: The point... why turn Gavin African?
Organization: Rhodes University, Grahamstown, South Africa
Date: Sun, 26 Jul 1992 06:39:58 GMT

In <1992Jul26.044435.26430@psg.com> randy@psg.com (Randy Bush) writes:

>gavan@UCT_elc.mth.uct.ac.za (Gavan Tredoux) writes:

>> Actually, spending on black education has increased 6000% since 1970.

>Gak!  Considering what I saw of township schools in 1990, I can not imagine
>what things could have been like in 1970.  What is 1/60th of a cinderblock
>or mud cube with no chairs, no desks, no books, no blackboard, ...?

Using U.S. military terminology of a tooth to tail ratio, most of this
supposedly increased spending probably went on the particularly useless
bureaucratic "tail".
-- 
  F.F. Jacot Guillarmod     PO  Box 94     \        |     ccfj@hippo.ru.ac.za
  Computing Centre       Grahamstown 6140   \      /     +27 461 22023 xt 284
  Rhodes University        South Africa      ;___*/   33 18 30 S | 26 31 45 E
Newsgroups: soc.culture.african
From: v30004@vax1.cc.uakron.edu (Abeselom T Maasho 3460-457-801.)
Subject: Charles Barkley
Organization: The University of Akron, Akron, Ohio
Distribution: usa
Date: Fri, 31 Jul 1992 17:14:22 GMT

What's up with Charles the Bum elbowing fellow African?

Eb
Newsgroups: soc.culture.african
From: paul@hoxton.demon.co.uk (Paul Beardsell)
Subject: The point... why turn Gavin African? 
Distribution: world
Organization: No organisation!
Date: Sat, 25 Jul 1992 22:48:28 +0000


In article <1992Jul25.134007.2936@ucthpx.uct.ac.za> gavan@UCT_elc.mth.uct.ac.za writes:

> Actually, spending on black education has increased 6000% since 1970.
> Look the figures up. Of course we should spend as much as is feasible. 

6000%!  Once spending on black education was 1%, say, of GDP.  And now it is 
60%?  Ha bloody ha!  Were the spending on black education once 2% then
it would by now be 120% of GDP!  I can confidently state that this would be
higher than any other nation save Cuba.

On the other hand, if spending on education is now 6% (Gavan Tredoux
suggests that this might be the best that can be achieved) then
that such spending has risen by 6000% to its current level is hardly
creditworthy of recent administrations; it is simply damning of previous
ones.

> Try to answer the question - where is the money going to come from?
> How can we spend more than 5-6% of GDP on education? Answering this question
> doesn't involve more aparheid history, just figures, resources, reasoning.

> Gavan Tredoux
Numerical Illiteracy Dept
> UCT

Where is the money going to come from?
I don't know but it would be a good start if less taxpayers' money
were spent on academics and students so idle that they can spend
so much time on the Net.

Paul Beardsell                          21 Finn House, Bevenden St, HOXTON,
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~                          Hackney, London, N1-6BN, UK.
paul@hoxton.demon.co.uk
pbeardsell@cix.compulink.co.uk          (+44 or 0)71 608-2391
Newsgroups: soc.culture.african
From: mokaba@binah.cc.brandeis.edu
Subject: Re: Black Gavan Tredoux (continued) read my other posting first!
Reply-To: mokaba@binah.cc.brandeis.edu
Organization: Brandeis University
Date: Wed, 22 Jul 1992 16:44:36 GMT

I know ... "Dr" or moet ek miskin se baas Gavan... please note that
this is not and attempt to slander but indicate to the readers the 
issues that many people may not connect in reading the conditions
of africans in the country.... Your name happen to be the one most 
common on the net ,,, you know more like Sipho or Nomaxabiso.
To other Readers: Disclaimer  I do not know Gavan Tredoux personally..
this in not an offial or un official biography but connecting the
reality of Africans in South Africa...

Request: Gavan do you if anyone has done estimation of the domino effect
of years of diprivation...more of a time series type of study or even 
a theory would do...
From: vamg6792@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (Vincent A Mazzarella)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.african
Subject: Re: If Gavan was black!! chapter 3
Date: 22 Jul 92 23:38:27 GMT
Organization: University of Illinois at Urbana

I enjoy Mr. mokaba's posts very much. they are well written, and full of pathos.
However, they are hardly exclusive. The story of poverty and the disadvantaged
is world-wide, and not limited to black folk, Indians, Brasilians, or even
white folk. 

Mr mokaba has a nice perspective and at times quite humourous perspective.
It is refreshing to read someone with some imaginative writing.

Cheers.

-- 
Vincent Mazzarella
University of Illinois College of Medicine, Urbana
e-mail:  mazz@vmd.cso.uiuc.edu  (Internet)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.african,soc.culture.african.american,soc.net-people,talk.politics.theory,rec.arts.books
From: adelaf@rs6124.ecs.rpi.edu (Festus Adelabu)
Subject: Olympics
Reply-To: adelaf@rpi.edu
Organization: Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute, Troy, NY.
Date: Mon, 27 Jul 1992 22:11:26 GMT

#### typos in previous posting ###

The Olympic games recently began and I wonder :
Have any African cities bidded to host the games ever? If not, why not?
Is #there a #conspiracy against potential African host nations or is the continent simply uninterested?  It seems to me that there is a lot to gain from hosting the games - recognition, economic boost, tourism, new infra-structure etc.  They host city is left practically brand new and substantially richer after the games.  Some countries are hosting the games two and three times upon recognizing the benefits.(eg. U.S.) 

I remember that Nigeria bidded to host a FIFA  World Cup tournament a few years back, but I can't remeber what happened.

Secondly, will anyone keeping track of "African Olympic medals" please post the news?  The U.S. media isn't quite interested in African achievements!!!


Festus Adelabu
Rensselaer




Keywords:
From: CHEN154@CANTVA.CANTERBURY.AC.NZ
Newsgroups: soc.culture.african
Subject: Re: Testing an AIDS vaccine in Africa
Date: 28 Jul 92 23:57:00 GMT

>This, BTW, says a lot about the bum, Mabuto Sese Seko. It would seem HIV is 
>targetting the wrong people....

>A couple of years ago, some West African governments allowed their countries 
>to be used as dump-sites for western industrial waste!

>J.K.

Only the likes of Mobutu Sese Seko can encourage this type of shit (opss).
Can't the western countries leave the so-called developing countries alone to
solve their problems? Why does capitalism ALWAYS encourage dishonesty on the 
part of so-called third world leaders who were put there hopefully incorruptible

Only "Allah" knows how much went into the accounts of Mobutu to test the vacine
on innocent victims. DO we have more aids sufferers in Africa than in 
Carlifonia??(not the whole US). The US means to tell the world that no "samples"
are available next door except Africa.

Are they not indirectly and PROBABLY introducing another disease that will in 10
years time be diagnosed as having originated from Africa AGAIN??!!!.

Why is a few $s luring some of our leaders to "kill" us


We have been waste sites, missile testing grounds etc. WHen is society going to
be to everybody??????

Ben
From: borcher@telematik.informatik.uni-karlsruhe.de
Newsgroups: soc.culture.african
Subject: Advice on Sudan/Kenya?
Date: 25 Jul 92 10:13:57 GMT
Organization: Institut fuer Telematik, Universitaet Karlsruhe
NNTP-Posting-Host: t8600.telematik.informatik.uni-karlsruhe.de


I'm planning to travel to Sudan and Kenya next spring. 
Does anyone have special advices on these countrys? What parts of Sudan are
restricted at the moment?

Any information is welcome.

Thanks in advance,
Malte Borcherding
borcher@telematik.informatik.uni-karlsruhe.de
Newsgroups: soc.culture.african
From: gavan@UCT_elc.mth.uct.ac.za (Gavan Tredoux)
Subject: Re: Black Gavan Tredoux (continued) read my other posting first!
Date: Thu, 23 Jul 92 20:05:24 GMT
Organization: University of Cape Town
X-Newsreader: Tin 1.1 PL4

mokaba@binah.cc.brandeis.edu writes:
: I know ... "Dr" or moet ek miskin se baas Gavan...

Ek kan sonder "baas" klaarkom, swaer.

Gavan Tredoux
UCT
From: gakio@mintaka.lcs.mit.edu (Karanja Gakio)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.african
Subject: Re: Olympics
Date: 29 Jul 92 03:25:47 GMT
Article-I.D.: amani.920728222548
Organization: MIT Laboratory for Computer Science
Nntp-Software: PC/TCP NNTP

In article <fpyxt0n@rpi.edu> adelaf@rs6124.ecs.rpi.edu (Festus
Adelabu) writes:

> The Olympic games recently began and I wonder : 
> Have any African cities bidded to host the games ever? If not, why
> not?
> Is #there a #conspiracy against potential African host nations or
> is the continent simply uninterested?

How about "can any country afford it?". In my mind, it would be
totally absurd for any African country to spend what it takes to host
the Olympic Games. Unless of course another Great Grey Powerful One
builds one out of his own pocket (if there is any such thing).

> It seems to me that there is a
> lot to gain from hosting the games - recognition, economic boost,
> tourism, new infra-structure etc.  They host city is left practically
> brand new and substantially richer after the games.  Some countries
> are hosting the games two and three times upon recognizing the
> benefits.(eg. U.S.) 

I doubt that hosting the Olympics would mask mediocre economies. A
number of years ago, the All Africa Games had to be postponed a year
because the facilities were not finished within the four year interim
period between the games. And I don't think Nairobi is any cleaner
and richer since then.

> I remember that Nigeria bidded to host a FIFA World Cup tournament
> a few years back, but I can't remeber what happened.

Was that during the oil gush days?

> Secondly, will anyone keeping track of "African Olympic medals"
> please post the news?  The U.S. media isn't quite interested in
> African achievements!!!

Did anyone else notice the snotty comments that NBC commentators were
making about the various competitors during the opening ceremony?
During the two minutes that the happy anchors had to say something
about the Central African Republic's small contingent, they said,
"The next group is from the Central African Republic, a country which
recently recovered from the ravages of a president who was accused of
cannibalism and who shot to death hundreds of school children who
were protesting the imposition of school uniforms bearing his name."
[paraphrased]

Whew! I guess that really helped the viewers relate to the athletes!

------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Karanja Gakio       FTP Software Inc, 26 Princess St, Wakefield MA 01880 USA
gakio@ftp.com                                    Phone: (617) 246-0900 x6269
==============================================================================
From: adelaf@rs6124.ecs.rpi.edu (Festus Adelabu)
Subject: Olympics
Reply-To: adelaf@rpi.edu
Organization: Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute, Troy, NY.
Date: Mon, 27 Jul 1992 22:05:38 GMT

The Olympic games recently began and I wonder :
Have any African cities bidded to host the games ever? If not, why not?
Is they are conspiracy against potential African host nations or is the continent simply uninterested?  It seems to me that there is a lot to gain from hosting the games - recognition, economic boost, tourism, new infra-structure etc.  They host city is left practically brand new and substantially richer after the games.  Some countries are hosting the games two and three times upon recognizing the benefits.(eg. U.S.) 

I remember that Nigeria bidded to host a FIFA  World Cup tournament a few years back, but I can't remeber what happened.

Secondly, will anyone keeping track of "African Olympic medals" please post the news?  The U.S. media isn't quite interested in African achievements!!!


Festus Adelabu
Rensselaer
From: osele@acsu.buffalo.edu (itiakorit j osele)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.african
Subject: Re: IPS:South Africa, U.N. Security Council
Date: 21 Jul 92 20:03:59 GMT
Organization: UB

In article <BrpttE.G2q@news.cso.uiuc.edu> vamg6792@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (Vincent A Mazzarella) writes:
>
>
>>Reference: United Nations
>>Title: SOUTH AFRICA: U.N. Security Council adopts resolution
>
>
>>new york, jul 16 (ips) -- after a marathon session in which more
>>than 50 speakers participated, the u.n. security council adopted a
>>resolution unanimously thursday asking the secretary-general to
>>send a special representative to south africa as soon as possible.
>
>
>>much the same position was taken by the other south african
>>leaders whom botha brought along with him to the security council.
>>they included inkatha freedom party leader, chief mangosuthu
>>buthelezi, and bantu leaders brig gqozo of ciskei and lucas
>>mangope from boputhatwasna.
>
>>all of them took great pains to assert that they were
>>independent leaders in their own right and were not ''creations''
>>or ''stooges'' of the south african government or apartheid.
>
>>buthelezi argued that there were several massacres before
>>boipatong where his zulu people were the victims of the anc. he
>>alleged there was no international outcry for them, because ''we
>>lack the resources and propaganda of the anc''.
>
>>the ifp leader was not too enthusiastic about a ''fact-
>>finding'' mission to south africa and was against what he called a
>>''peacekeeping force intervention'' in south africa.
>
>>the two bantu leaders attacked the anc for trying to
>>destabilise governments in the south african created
>>''independent'' homelands. ''the anc does not represent the black
>>population of south africa,'' brig. gqozo said.
>
>>while not taking issue on this point, nathan shamuyarira, the
>>zimbabwean foreign minister said at the end of the day: ''one
>>wonders to what extent these leaders represent the wishes of their
>>own people.'' it is well known that democracy is not a strong
>>point in any of the apartheid-created homelands in south africa.
>
>As if Zimbabwe or other nearby African countries (cf. other articles in
>this group on Malawi, e.g.) are particularly democratic !!  Ha Ha Ha
>
>-- 

Cheap shot; being cynical eh.

Itiakorit


>Vincent Mazzarella
>University of Illinois College of Medicine, Urbana
>e-mail:  mazz@vmd.cso.uiuc.edu  (Internet)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.african
From: kautaj@copper.ucs.indiana.edu (john kauta)
Subject: Re: IPS:South Africa, African leaders take
Organization: Indiana University, Department of Mathematics.
Date: Thu, 23 Jul 1992 01:25:26 GMT

In article <1992Jul22.222928.6093@CSD-NewsHost.Stanford.EDU> philip@ziggy.stanford.edu (Philip Machanick) writes:
>In article <Brt6Ez.8Du@usenet.ucs.indiana.edu> kautaj@copper.ucs.indiana.edu  
>(john kauta) writes:
>> of the problem......... It was Vance's and Carter's own government which had 
>> arranged for Mandela to spend half of his lifetime behind bars....[I am 
>> talking about the CIA activities which led to Mandela's arrest here, in case 
>> some of you are clueless].
>
>Am I missing something or are you thinking of someone else?
>
>Mandela was arrested in South Africa in 1964 a dozen years before the Carter  
>administration (1976-1980).
>--
>Philip Machanick
>philip@pescadero.stanford.edu

The distinction should be made between Carter's _government_ (i.e. the US 
govt) and Carter's administration (1976-1980). 

J.K.
From: barrett@daisy.ee.und.ac.za (Alan P Barrett)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.african,sci.logic,sanet.talk.politics
Subject: Re: Logic and the South African Defence Act
Date: 26 Jul 92 20:21:47 GMT
Article-I.D.: ee.1992Jul26.202147.16191
Organization: Univ. Natal, Durban, S. Africa

In article <1992Jul26.163904.20336@ucthpx.uct.ac.za>,
gavan@UCT_elc.mth.uct.ac.za (Gavan Tredoux) considers this clause from
the South African Defence Act's definition of 'white' for purposes of
conscription --

: "1. 'White person' means a person who (a) in appearance obviously
: is a white person and who is not generally accepted as a
: coloured person; or (b) is generally accepted as a white person
: and is not in appearance obviously not a white person,
: but does not include any person who for the purpose of the
: repealed Population Registration Act freely and voluntarily [admits?]
: that he is by descent a Black or coloured person unless it is
: proved that the admission is not based on fact.

and translates it into these statements of logic --

> 1.  (appears white) /\ (~ coloured) ==> white 
> 2.  (~~(appears white)) /\ (~(black \/ coloured)) ==> white 

The legislators mention obviously-white and obviously-not-white
explicitly, but the presence of the word "obviously" suggests that they
were contemplating some other values, such as "neither obviously-white
nor obviously-not-white".  Perhaps they think that "whiteness" can be
measured on a continuous scale, with obviously-white towards one end and
obviously-not-white towards the other end.  Note that "not
obviously-white" would include the central region of this putative
continuous scale, while "obviously-not-white" would not.

Under this interpretation, Gavan's "(appears white)" in line 1 should be
"(appears obviously-white)" and the "~~(appears white)" in line 2 should
be "~(appears obviously-not-white)".  This change invalidates some of
the reasoning elsewhere in Gavan's article.

--apb
Alan Barrett, Dept. of Electronic Eng., Univ. of Natal, Durban, South Africa
RFC822: barrett@ee.und.ac.za             Bang: m2xenix!quagga!undeed!barrett
From: gavan@UCT_elc.mth.uct.ac.za (Gavan Tredoux)
Subject: Re: UPI: Tutu condemns attakcs on police; urges ANC back to talks
Date: Sat, 25 Jul 92 13:06:09 GMT
Organization: University of Cape Town
X-Newsreader: Tin 1.1 PL4

vamg6792@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (Vincent A Mazzarella) writes:
: 
: 
: 	JOHANNESBURG (UPI) -- Noble Peace Prize laureate Desmond Tutu
                              ^^^^^
: condemned Friday continuing attacks on South African police and called
: for the urgent resumption of stalled talks to end violence and prepare
: for democratic elections.
: 	``In accordance with the church's condemnation of all violence, I
: want to condemn in the strongest of terms the ongoing spate of attacks
: against members of the (South African) police,'' Tutu, leader of South
: Africa's Anglican Church, said in a statement released by his office.
: 	The 1984 Noble laureate said the attacks on police officers, which
                 ^^^^^
: have claimed 121 lives since January, underlined the ``urgent necessity
: to get on with the business of negotiating a legitimate and
: democratically acceptable government.''

Very noble of the Nobel laureate.

Gavan Tredoux
UCT
Newsgroups: soc.culture.african