From: sphanda@cbnewsf.cb.att.com (surinder.phanda)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.indian
Subject: Re: WITHER PATRIOTISM ?
Summary: ....more about India
Date: 12 Oct 92 15:40:25 GMT
Organization: AT&T

In article <1b4o9eINNnv3@charnel.ecst.csuchico.edu>, vivek@ecst.csuchico.edu (Vivek R. Prabhu) writes:
> In article <1992Oct9.123451.15698@cbfsb.cb.att.com> sphanda@cbnewsf.cb.att.com (surinder.phanda) writes:
> >In article <1992Oct8.223436.19533@news.clarkson.edu>, rajat@sunny1.che.clarkson.edu (Rajat Kapoor) writes:
> >
> >Would you?? The fact is, a lot of Indians do actually choose not to 
> >go back.....
> 
> That was some time ago. In fact now the trend since the 90's started has been 
> for more Indians to go back and work in India than stay here.

A few might go back, but a larger majority choose not.

[stuff deleted]

> >Why? surely to talk from experience is the best example.
> 
> I agree, but not from the experiences of others who may have a self-centered
> selfish motive in coming back after just facing some problems in India after
> not having tried to overcome them.

Why do immediatley label people as "self-centered" or "selfish" when they
write about their experiences of India?, and in fact it would be good if
you could give some more insight as to how people should have tried to
overcome some of these experiences. After all I'm sure we're all aware of the 
slick, and highly spohisticated machinery called the legal system that 
operates in India. 

> 
> >To some it does appear inhospitable - you have to accept that.
> 
> Well in what sense inhospitable I do not understand. In that case,  the U.S.
> is still more inhospitable what with lax gun control laws, etc.  where  life 
> and property is not safe.  An example would be the city of Oakland,  CA.  In
> fact,  just last night  there was a  shooting in a complex where most of our
> Indian students live, and the incident took place between 2 roomates, one of
> whom shot the other. These two guys stay next door to the apartment where  5
> of the Indians stay and 2 more apartments in the complex have some 7 Indians
> staying. They all feel that the U.S.,  is not  only  inhospitable due to the 
> fact that it is highly unsafe, but also due to the fact that sometimes there
> is an odd occasion of discrimination against them and those whom they know.
> 

It's quite simple. Individuals have different levels of perception about
hospitality. The example you have given above is frightening indeed.
However, in spite of such (inhospitable) incidents, the fact is that
Indians continue to choose to live in the U.S (over India). Next you'll
be telling me of the terrible dilemma faced by them when making this
decision.....


> >Why ever not?? Just because you are a native of a particular country
> >does not mean hard hitting truthful facts about it cannot be raised....
> >Take off the rose tinted glasses please!
> 
> Criticism of the positive kind which leads to some type of action that leads
> to beneficial change is good and should be welcomed. However criticism  that
> is meant to be done only for the sake of itself is negative,  and turns into
> a counterproductive effort.

Right. I agree that criticism should be constructive, however that's not
what's being debated. 

> 
> >Well, are'nt they?? The MAJORITY (who do not have the comforts or haven
> >of a Western country) do live in a "cesspool of misery". They don't
> >have the luxury of making tough decisons about which private school
> >to send their kids.... or whether to change jobs and move into 
> >another (luxury) home....etc..
> 
> The same situation occure here. The only reason why Indians here are'nt able 
> to recognize it is due to the fact that a majority of them are affluent, and
> are away from these problems that the common American faces.
> 

The "common American" on welfare with provision for medical care does'nt
even come close to it's equivalent Indian counterpart in terms of the 
problems faced. 

> >I doubt if any family has time.....they are too busy surviving.
> 
> Here it is even worse. They survive only till the next paycheck.

Yeah, I imagine that must be very hard indeed!

> 
[stuff deleted]

> 
> >The U.S has always been considered a country of opportunity. It's where
> >a lot immigrants dreams came true, and continue to come true....
> >People did'nt abandon it because it did so much for them. Unfortunatley
> >the same is not true of India. Just look at the lines of people at
> >foreign embassies waiting to get out .....
> 
> Just look at the number of places in the world where an American passport is
> something that can get you killed. They are almost in every continent.

The kind of problems that you are referring to are on a larger political
scale. They don't compare with the social problems of India.....

> 
> >So you want an obedient woman that agrees with everything you say
> >and "knows her place" - typical!
> 
> That does not mean what you implied. It  means that a woman who is patriotic
> is more like-minded and preferable to him.

I did'nt need to imply anything - the original statement was loaded 
enough. 

> 
> 
> >> Rajat Kapoor 
> >
> >Ms Surinder Phanda
> 
> Regards,
> Vivek.
> 
> -- 
> vivek@cscihp.ecst.csuchico.edu (Vivek R. Prabhu),
> Research Assistant, Systems Engineering Lab., Dept. Of Computer Science, 
> School Of Engineering, Computer Science And Technology,
> California State University, Chico, California.

Surinder Phanda.
Newsgroups: soc.culture.indian