HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: johnsd2@jec327.its.rpi.edu.its1 (Daniel Norman Johnson)
Subject: Re: Macintosh bigots
Reply-To: johnsd2@jec327.its.rpi.edu.its1
Organization: Sun Microsystems, Inc.
Date: Sat, 21 Nov 1992 17:37:46 GMT

In article 722360079@gmd.de, strobl@gmd.de (Wolfgang Strobl) writes:
>In <+hz1chq@rpi.edu> johnsd2@vccnw01.its.rpi.edu.its1 (Daniel Norman Johnson) writes:

[deletia- guess what]
>>>>Really? Isn't ANY processor doing ANYTHING a waste of resources
>>>>by this argument, since it could hand off the job to specialized
>>>>circuits and do something else?
>>>
>>>No. But having an expensive, general purpose CPU slowly perform 
>>>something a cheap, specialized CPU can do much faster, is a waste.
>>>
>
>>Really? Why would you say that? It does not seem to follow to me.
>>Sounds like you are loading more work on the processor, but if it
>>can handle it quickly, this is not a big deal.
>
>By that reasoning, floating point coprocessors are unnecessary,
>too.
>

Well, they certainly are in the strictest sence. But
that's beside the point.

Of course, if the CPU ->cannot<- handle it quickly, THEN
you are justified in saying that you need a coprocessor
(for math or graphics). (even through it would eventally get
done)

But I would object to saying that having your CPU doing
computations was a waste cuz a coprocessor could be made
to do it.

---
			- Dan Johnson
And God said "Jeeze, this is dull"... and it *WAS* dull. Genesis 0:0

These opinions have had all identifiying marks removed, and are untraceable.
You'll never know whose they are.
Newsgroups: comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy
From: spagiola@frinext.stanford.edu (Stefano Pagiola)
Subject: Re: Macintosh bigots
Reply-To: spagiola@frinext.stanford.edu
Organization: DSO, Stanford University
Date: Mon, 16 Nov 92 09:15:54 GMT

Paul Penrod writes
> ... however, the Macintosh was designed as a closed
> system. Can you extend the NuBus to 20 slots and support 64 ports
> directly ? Can you attach hundreds of different types of hardware
> to your system, simply by plugging in a card and loading a device
> driver ? 

Ah yes, the usual approach: if your machine does X, no matter how  
brain-dead, then call it a feature.  Anybody who has experienced the  
joys of dealing with device drivers under DOS or Windows will, I am  
sure, wholeheartedly agree that this is one of the better aspects of  
the OS.  NOT!

(Never thought I'd use that construction... but its so apt here).

--
-
Stefano Pagiola
Food Research Institute, Stanford University
spagiola@frinext.stanford.edu (NeXTMail encouraged)
spagiola@FRI-nxt-Pagiola.stanford.edu (NeXTMail encouraged)
Newsgroups: comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy
From: johnsd2@jec327.its.rpi.edu.its1 (Daniel Norman Johnson)
Subject: Re: Macintosh bigots
Reply-To: johnsd2@jec327.its.rpi.edu.its1
Organization: Sun Microsystems, Inc.
Date: Sat, 21 Nov 1992 17:34:42 GMT

In article 722359532@gmd.de, strobl@gmd.de (Wolfgang Strobl) writes:
>In <#hz18dq@rpi.edu> johnsd2@vccnw01.its.rpi.edu.its1 (Daniel Norman Johnson) writes:
>
>>In article 722183341@gmd.de, strobl@gmd.de (Wolfgang Strobl) writes:
>>>In <xly150p@rpi.edu> johnsd2@jec316.its.rpi.edu.its1 (Daniel Norman Johnson) writes:
>
>>[deletia- monitors]
>>>
>>>>[deletia- resedit]
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>Modifying resources can be done using the standard file system
>>>>>>>interface. Just read that part of a program file, which contains
>>>>>>>the resources and interpret it yourself.
>>>>>
>>>>>>But you need to interpret the format..
>>>>>
>>>>>True. Just like a compiler has to do it.
>>>
>>>>Doesn't the linker do that?
>>>
>>>No, on Windows the resource compiler does it. I.e. it generates
>>>that format, and attaches the output to the executable, in
>>>two separate steps. On Windows/NT, the linker implements the
>>>second step, i.e. the attaching.
>
>>Oh, ok- I thought you meant "a compiler" as in "a C compiler".
>
>I meant it that way. The resource compiler is a compiler, not
>a linker, if you use the common usage and definition of these
>terms. It compiles a textual representation of a resource into
>a binary representation. Unlike an ordinary language compiler,
>it does a little bit of copying, too, but it doesn't do any
>kind of linking, as far as I know.

No, you still misundertand my misunderstanding. :/

I thought you were saying that your C compiler was doing this.

I dont think resources are written in C usually.

[deletia- resources]
>>>The strings are ui business. The main purpose of the string
>>>table is not to have any language dependency in the code, so that
>>>you can translate your application into a foreign language
>>>just by translating the resource script, and without looking
>>>at the source code. A well written app not even has to be
>>>recompiled to create a foreign version.
>
>>I know about this.
>
>>>But this string table should'nt be modified at runtime or (mis-)
>>>used for other purposes, IMHO. 
>
>>Why ever not? If its a handy place to stick some other strings, why
>>not do so?
>
>It just doesn't feel right. :-)
>

Heh heh heh.

What about (say) writing an adventure game and putting your maps
in as resources?

---
			- Dan Johnson
And God said "Jeeze, this is dull"... and it *WAS* dull. Genesis 0:0

These opinions have had all identifiying marks removed, and are untraceable.
You'll never know whose they are.
Newsgroups: comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.setup
From: tom@microsoft.com (Tom McConnell)
Subject: Re: Question on Windows for Workgroups
Date: 19 Nov 92 00:56:16 GMT
Organization: Microsoft Corporation

In article <1992Nov19.004636.10355@microsoft.com> tom@microsoft.com (Tom McConnell) writes:
>In article <1992Nov11.171531.7762@cs.cornell.edu> rvinluan@cs.cornell.edu (Rolando Vinluan) writes:
>>
>>
>>	1) Under DOS, connect to the 486 running WfW.
>>	2) Load WfW.
>>
>
>Yes this will work fine. The qualifications for this is that you
>need to buy 2 copies of Windows for Workgroups. (I believe, check
>the liscencing agreement to be sure.)
>

[stuff deleted]

I should note that if you DO buy 2 copies of Windows for Workgroups, you
do NOT need to buy the "WfW dos connectivety pack" or whatever they call
it.  It comes as _part_ of the WfW.


Just make sure that you have all of the drivers/executables that are
in a normal config.sys/autoexec.bat for WfW on the floppy, and you
ought to be money.

(Please note that this is only legal if you have 2 legal copies of 
Windows for workgroups)

-Tom

-- 
"Hey COW!"  _____________((     
           /       **     o\    ______     _______________________
          /|      ****      \ _/moo...\    |     Tom McConnell   |
         / |      **    /\__/  \______/    | uunet!microsoft!tom |
Newsgroups: comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy
From: johnsd2@vccnw01.its.rpi.edu.its1 (Daniel Norman Johnson)
Subject: Re: Macintosh bigots
Reply-To: johnsd2@vccnw01.its.rpi.edu.its1
Organization: Sun Microsystems, Inc.
Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1992 01:54:31 GMT

In article 722183341@gmd.de, strobl@gmd.de (Wolfgang Strobl) writes:
>In <xly150p@rpi.edu> johnsd2@jec316.its.rpi.edu.its1 (Daniel Norman Johnson) writes:

[deletia- monitors]
>
>>[deletia- resedit]
>>>>
>>>>>Modifying resources can be done using the standard file system
>>>>>interface. Just read that part of a program file, which contains
>>>>>the resources and interpret it yourself.
>>>
>>>>But you need to interpret the format..
>>>
>>>True. Just like a compiler has to do it.
>
>>Doesn't the linker do that?
>
>No, on Windows the resource compiler does it. I.e. it generates
>that format, and attaches the output to the executable, in
>two separate steps. On Windows/NT, the linker implements the
>second step, i.e. the attaching.

Oh, ok- I thought you meant "a compiler" as in "a C compiler".

[deletia- resources]

>>>>Its used for a lot more than that. Virtually anything you
>>>>want can be stored there. Its very handy. Things like
>>>>control definitions, color tables, all the strings in your
>>>>program (officialy, you are supposed to do that), any internal
>>>>data you want to keep there.
>>>
>>>There is a string table in the collection of the standard
>>>Windows resource components, too, and its use is recommended,
>>>likewise. It's of course part of the user interface.
>
>>Hmm? All strings are in the ui? Anyway, the point was just that
>>you can (and do) put all sorts of rediculous things in there,
>>just cuz it easier.
>
>The strings are ui business. The main purpose of the string
>table is not to have any language dependency in the code, so that
>you can translate your application into a foreign language
>just by translating the resource script, and without looking
>at the source code. A well written app not even has to be
>recompiled to create a foreign version.

I know about this.

>But this string table should'nt be modified at runtime or (mis-)
>used for other purposes, IMHO. 

Why ever not? If its a handy place to stick some other strings, why
not do so?


---
			- Dan Johnson
And God said "Jeeze, this is dull"... and it *WAS* dull. Genesis 0:0

These opinions have had all identifiying marks removed, and are untraceable.
You'll never know whose they are.
Xref: sparky comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy:2686 comp.sys.mac.advocacy:2641
From: jmains@engr.latech.edu (John P. Mains)
Subject: Re: For all you Mac users...
Reply-To: jmains@engr.latech.edu
Organization: Louisiana Tech University
Distribution: usa
Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1992 16:41:03 GMT

>>...Macs gave us the true windowing system.
>I do not think so;...Lisa and Xerox Star came first...

I stand corrected.

>>...In other words, the ibmpc machine... will outperform any
>>mac, any day. Andi if it doesn't it some area I am not aware of 
>>it soon will.
>...I'll just quietly ask you why I should care.

I guess my primary statement is that the Macs are hurting pretty
bad and need to get on the ball.  I learned about computers on
the Mac.  but I soon needed capabilities that it couldn't easily
supply.
But I fold now, I know when I have been given a good tongue
lashing, I've learned a good lesson to keep my opinions backed
up next time and strickly not emotional blabbering. 

Gagged,
JP

Newsgroups: comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy
From: strobl@gmd.de (Wolfgang Strobl)
Subject: Re: Macintosh bigots
Organization: GMD, Sankt Augustin, Germany
Date: Sun, 22 Nov 1992 20:41:36 GMT

In <9821+3a@rpi.edu> johnsd2@jec312.its.rpi.edu.its1 (Daniel Norman Johnson) writes:

>In article 722437792@gmd.de, strobl@gmd.de (Wolfgang Strobl) writes:
[...]
>>Of course not! For one, people nowadays buy much more 
>>computing power than they really need, because PCs are
>>- in comparison to Macs - cheap. This partially compensates the
>>smaller memory width, if the VGA card in use isn't too old.

>Memory width?

The number of data lines on the memory bus to the video memory.
8 or 16 bit for ISA cards, 32 bits for EISA and local bus
video.

--
      o      (     Wolfgang Strobl    Wolfgang.Strobl@gmd.de (+49 2241) 14-2394
     /\        *   GMD - Gesellschaft fuer Mathematik und Datenverarbeitung mbH
   _`\ `_<===      Schloss Birlinghoven, P.O. Box 1316,  | #include   
__(_)/_(_)___.-._  D-5205 Sankt Augustin, Germany        | <std.disclaimer.hpp>
Newsgroups: comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy
From: johnsd2@jec314.its.rpi.edu.its1 (Daniel Norman Johnson)
Subject: Re: Macintosh bigots
Reply-To: johnsd2@jec314.its.rpi.edu.its1
Organization: Sun Microsystems, Inc.
Date: Sun, 15 Nov 1992 18:45:06 GMT

In article 11743@sequent.com, furballs@sequent.com (Paul Penrod) writes:
[deletia- stuff about blaming tools]

>I agree with you. The one thing Mr. Cohen does not take into
>account is the fact that the Macintosh was designed to be used for
>solving simpler problems using a closed architecture that made it
>torture to program for. The IBM, by being so generalistic, suffers
>from non-conformity in some corners, but solves myriads of diverse
>problems because it can be built to do so. That is the key. Apple
>determined long ago the class of problems the Mac would solve and
>figured the rest of the world was unimportant to them. IBM, to
>their credit, realized that the world is a big place with an
>infinite amount of problems to solve, and solved problems very
>quickly turns into cash, because time is money.

Justify this statement, please. But dont do it by comparing
your 386 box with a Mac 128k. :)

>If all a person wants to do is write a report, then choice your
>poison.

Ill take the second bottle to the left.. yes, the vile green one.. :)

> If you want to solve a problem, such as 3D rendering of
>seismic data, while handling on the fly analysis of incoming data
>via a satellite link, and shuffle all this around several differnt
>kinds of networks,

Why can't a Mac do this? (fundamentally, not because you cant
find the software- that's a real problem, but it says nothing
about the Macintosh; only about the Macs market share.)

> while still being able to run about 99% of all
>DOS and windows software out there,

Ah, but what if you want to run Mac binaries? Or Amiga? Etc...

This isn't much of a point. Why should I care if my app is
a 680x0 binary or a 80x86 binary?

>effective choice. Granted you could shred a Mac and stuff all the
>hardware in it to do these kinds of things, but it would no longer
>be a Mac according to Apple's definition.

Oh, so a Mac ->CAN<- do all this? Why isn't the resulting thing
a Mac by Apple's definition? I figure Apple thinks a Mac is any
hunk of plastic+silicon you pay them for. :)

>
>It's all perspective and the class of problems that need to get
>solved.

I think its all weird vocabulary definitions.

---
			- Dan Johnson
And God said "Jeeze, this is dull"... and it *WAS* dull. Genesis 0:0

These opinions have had all identifiying marks removed, and are untraceable.
You'll never know whose they are.
Newsgroups: comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy,comp.sys.mac.advocacy
From: (Tim Keitt)
Subject: Re: Macintosh bigots
Date: Tue, 17 Nov 92 22:49:25 GMT
Organization: University of New Mexico, Albuquerque NM
Reply-To: tkeitt@algodones.unm.edu
Keywords: PC Good, Mac less so : ) 

In article <Bxu7qr.5pu@world.std.com> jbailey@world.std.com (james d bailey) writes:
>dmsilev@athena.mit.edu (Daniel M Silevitch) writes:
>
>>I agree with your statement that Quadras are aimed at the workstation market.
>>They have the price of a low-mid range workstation. Unfortunately, they don't
>>really have the performance of a UNIX workstation, so it seems to me that the
>>Quadra will remain a small niche market, unable to capture either the desktop PC
>>market or the workstation market.
>
>Hmm, some don't agree with you.  See the November Byte article on the
>ultimate DTP workstation.  I'm not usually in the habit of reading or
>quoting Byte but I kind of liked this article.  Quoted from page
>207-208 without permission.
>
>"Despite our preconception that the sweetest workstation was going to
>be a Unix system, we chose the Quadra 950 as our favorite.  The Quadra
>is the winner not only because of its performance on our DTP tests,
>but because there is more software that is better supported and easier
>to install, manage, and use than for any of the Unix workstations."
>
>>Daniel Silevitch                                  dmsilev@athena.mit.edu
>>Massachusetts Institute of Technology
>

I subscribe to byte and I thought that was one of the worst 
technical reviews I've seen from them in four years. They set 
out to review workstations, but then ad hoc defined workstation 
as DTP and/or CAD. Their performance evaluation was misleading 
(like most magazine reviews). They completely ignored the issue 
of tradeoffs between ease-of-use and overall real-world 
performance (for those willing to learn to use their system). 
I'm sure for certain tasks, I'd really like the Quadra, but 
their analysis was too shallow. I often handle large numbers of 
scanned images (10-20+MB each) in my research. I can't imagine 
how frustrating that could be on a MAC. Performance and 
ease-of-use varies with different kinds of applications on 
different platforms. I guess I'm a pluralist - the best tool is 
really dependent on how you use it. The rest is just user 
preference (which I find has a *lot* to do with what your 
accustomed to).

--
Timothy Keitt
tkeitt@algodones.unm.edu



Newsgroups: comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy,comp.sys.mac.advocacy
From: walk@mrcnext.cso.uiuc.edu (Todd Walk)
Subject: Re: Macintosh bigots
Organization: University of Illinois at Urbana
Date: Sun, 15 Nov 1992 21:11:04 GMT

jmalloy@itsmail1.hamilton.edu (Joseph T. Malloy) writes:
>My friend, it's a poor workman who blames his tools.  I've used both Mac

You just hit the nail on the head :-)

People have to remember that computers are TOOLS, not religous objects
of worship.  (This applies also to PC users who put other computers down.)

I use Suns, a Next, Dos, Windows, OS/2,  Linux, and Macs for my work.

Each of these OSs/computer systems have trade offs of price, performace,
expandability, software, speed, crash resistance, compatiblility, ease
of networking, ease of use, ease of work sharing with others, and etc...

Anyone who says that any one OS/computer system is the best in all of
these really hasn't been into the "real" world for very long.

 
					Todd Walk
					walk@mrcnext.cso.uiuc.edu



Newsgroups: comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy
From: johnsd2@jec327.its.rpi.edu.its1 (Daniel Norman Johnson)
Subject: Re: Macintosh bigots
Reply-To: johnsd2@jec327.its.rpi.edu.its1
Organization: Sun Microsystems, Inc.
Date: Wed, 18 Nov 1992 03:20:14 GMT

In article 225@news.cso.uiuc.edu, rvenkate@ih-nxt07 (R A Venkateswar) writes:
>johnsd2@vccsouth16.its.rpi.edu.its1 (Daniel Norman Johnson) writes:
>
>>In article 721932965@dhhalden.no, runehh@dhhalden.no (RUNE HALFDAN HOLST HUSEBY) writes:
>>>In article <00t1hlb@rpi.edu> johnsd2@jec314.its.rpi.edu.its1 (Daniel Norman Johnson) writes:
>>[deletia- metafiles]
>>>>>You don't, if you only need simple sounds. There is always the 
>>>>>speaker.
>>>>
>>>>Which can only beep under Windows, no? Or did windows pick up a driver
>>>>for the internal speaker that I dont know about?
>>>There is a driver for the internal speaker you don't know about. It's OK as 
>>>long as you don't need noise-free sound.
>
>>I understand from an email conversation that this driver disables
>>interrupts. This would mean you cant use it asyncrhonously (it
>>locks up your mouse). Kinda... cheesy.. no wonder MS didn't
>>include it.
>
>Not if you set it not to disable them.
>

Right, someone already told me on another thread. But I can still
discount it, since it does not come with the system (tho why
I dont see); if you can throw in outside stuff, so can we. :)

It would get  crazy, very fast.

><stuff about video memory accessing deleted>
>
>>>>>They're starting to sell S3 cards for 450 DM (about 290$) here in 
>>>>>Germany. When bundled with a machine, you'll probably get it for
>>>>>less.
>>>>
>>>>How deep is this cards display? How many pixels does it produce?
>>>
>>>Not quite sure about this. I think some is capable of 24-bit in some modes.
>>>This usually depends on how much video-mem you have.
>
>The card mentioned is probably the Diamond Speedstar 24X. Which is
>accelerated, displays 640X480X16M and upto 1600X1200X16.

Hmmm.. lotta guesswork involved in this stuff... :)
[whats that? Me? Actually like do my own research? NEVER! :) ]

But I thot S3 card was some sort of brand. (Buy S3 video Cards,
better than those old dingy S2s!). If not, what is it?


>>Somebody else did; its 8 bits deep but 1000someodd by 1000someodd.
>>(where accelerated Mac cards are usually 24 bits, as 8 bit accelerated
>>is overkill; this beefs up the price of course)

Now I have to contradictory opinions. Fun fun! :)


---
			- Dan Johnson
And God said "Jeeze, this is dull"... and it *WAS* dull. Genesis 0:0

These opinions have had all identifiying marks removed, and are untraceable.
You'll never know whose they are.
Newsgroups: comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy
From: cs707ab@maccs.dcss.mcmaster.ca (Aftab)
Subject: Windows NTa/b ... where to get from?
Organization: McMaster University, Hamilton, Ontario, Canada.
Date: Mon, 16 Nov 1992 07:20:34 GMT

Hi,

Could some kind soul tell me where/how to get windows NTa/b ?

Is there an ftp site I can search for it?

Kamran

Newsgroups: comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy
From: johnsd2@jec327.its.rpi.edu.its1 (Daniel Norman Johnson)
Subject: Re: Macintosh bigots
Reply-To: johnsd2@jec327.its.rpi.edu.its1
Organization: Sun Microsystems, Inc.
Date: Wed, 18 Nov 1992 03:29:48 GMT

In article 1ebi0tINNkhf@transfer.stratus.com, jmann@vineland.pubs.stratus.com (Jim Mann) writes:
>In article <1992Nov14.150215.28192@wam.umd.edu> rsrodger@wam.umd.edu  
>(Yamanari) writes:
>> In article <1992Nov13.141945.18628@itsmail1.hamilton.edu>  
>jmalloy@itsmail1.hamilton.edu (Joseph T. Malloy) writes:
>> >With the Mac, it's either love it or leave it, the user has no  
>choice.
>> >That, I susepct, keeps it in its fringe position as much as price  
>and
>> >closed architecture.  Mac heads have no choice.  Windows and, even  
>more,
>> >OS/2 users do have a choice.  I'll take choice any day.
>> 
>> 
>> 	This part has me confused.  Choice of what?
>
>The biggest choice you get in Windows but not on the Mac
>is choice of interface.  If you don't like the Program Manager,
>you can use Norton Desktop, or Aporia, or HP New Wave, or any
>of dozens of other interfaces.  This is a plus in the Windows
>column. 
>

The reason virtually all Macs use the Finder is because its so
good (imho) not because you cant replace it; its just an app; replace
it with anything you like. Ive heard of various finder replacements;
there used to be one that organized things into a set of panes,
sorta like a NeXT. They aren't common because there isn't much
demand.

However, replacing the Finder doesn't change the Mac interface globally
anymore than replacing the program manager changes the Windows UI. Menus,
controls, all that still work the same.

It IS possible to change various parts of the Mac UI a bit; replace
those scrollbars with nextoid scrolls, make those buttons 3d,
make teh menus tear off, or pop up. Etc. Nothing terribly
fundamental, tho.

---
			- Dan Johnson
And God said "Jeeze, this is dull"... and it *WAS* dull. Genesis 0:0

These opinions have had all identifiying marks removed, and are untraceable.
You'll never know whose they are.