HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: orc@amber.uchicago.edu (David Parsons)
Subject: Re: Change is GOOD!!!
Organization: Ministry of Skritching
Date: Sun, 11 Oct 1992 01:27:34 GMT

In article <1b7bi6INNmuo@darkstar.UCSC.EDU> rlebeau@cats.ucsc.edu (Robert Charles Lebeau) writes:
|	ARRRGGGHHHH!!!! I thought this was soc.bi not soc.bi.math.  I
|dispise prime numbers.  I hate all math.

   Hmm.  Doesn't like math, does he?

   Prepare a pod.

                 ____
   david parsons \bi/ invisible man
                  \/
From: rsr@soda.berkeley.edu (Roy S. Rapoport)
Newsgroups: soc.bi
Subject: Re: Femme/Butch in Bisexuality
Date: 14 Oct 1992 03:50:20 GMT
Organization: U.C. Berkeley, CS Undergraduate Association
NNTP-Posting-Host: soda.berkeley.edu
Keywords: Femme Butch

In article <iw.719021522@tosser> iw@tosser.Rational.COM (The_Devine_Dolly) writes:
->rsr@soda.berkeley.edu (Roy S. Rapoport) writes:
->>In article <1992Oct12.180732.1318@rational.com> iw@Rational.COM (The_Virgin_Ho) writes:

->I find that alot of butch people get off on what they perceive as the
->power/control in being the giver.  Personally I never feel lacking
->in power by being the receiver, in fact I often feel like the more
->powerful one, because if I don't enjoy and express the enjoyment then
->the giver has been entirely powerless in the situation.  Overall though
->in vanilla sex at least, I don't really perceive any power/control issues.
->Most butch people I know find the power/control issue a really important
->one - what do you think.

Well, as being the first (I think) self-defined butch (according to your
definition ... bear-code-wise, I'm so cubbish it's incredible ... ), I don't
think I do it for power...

Let me put it this way.  Power-issues wise, I'm on the bottom ... I _want_
to give power away ... to give someone else the controls, to give in ... so
I don't think in my case that's an issue ... 

WRT the only actual experience I've had satisfying this craving I had to
give pleasure, which deals with my SO, it wasn't so much as I was giving or
withholding pleasure, it was that I had a very strong need to give him
pleasure ... I mean, it took me about 10 minutes to finally say "Umm, how do
you feel about me doing ... " and then doing it, but it was because I just
wanted to bring him pleasure, y'know?

-- 
Roy S. Rapoport          rsr@soda.berkeley.edu            bdsm@ocf.berkeley.edu
        "In my opinion, anyone who wants to can call themselves a pervert
           or a queer but slut is a compliment you have to earn." -SFJ
DISCLAIMER:  "I meant every word of it ... but nobody else did."
From: jclark@sdcc3.ucsd.edu (John Clark)
Newsgroups: soc.bi
Subject: Re: Gay & Lesbian studies
Date: 8 Oct 92 23:39:03 GMT
Organization: University of California, San Diego

In article <Bvrs41.7ot@unix.amherst.edu> kcrobins@unix.amherst.edu (Kat Robinson) writes:
+Amherst College also offers a Gay and Lesbian Studies class. Actually, it's
+called The History of Sex, Gender, and the Family: Homosexual History in the
+West. So far no mention of Bi's either. I talked to the Professor, who is now
+my advisor and an out lesbian, about doing the final research paper on some
+aspect of bisexuality. She said I could but didn't advise it. She said people
+had tried in the past but it hadn't really worked out because of lack of 
+information, basically.  I don't know. I still haven't decided whether or not
+to pursue it.  What do you think?  Any suggestions for possible topics?

It would seem that the 'History' part is severly lacking if there is
no 'bisexual' commentary.

A paper a long the lines of 'Greek family life of the 600-400 BCE'
would have to discuss both bisexuality, marital duty, and family. In
particular, the greek 'thiasos', a group of young unmarried women prior
to marriage would have extensive contact with other young women and
include sexual relationships. One could contrast this with the more
well know male 'rites of passage' via the 'mentor and protogee'
paradym.

For a small paper, just a documentation of the women's group and
it's placement relative to the eventual marriage of most women would
be sufficient.

A bigger project, possibly a thesis, would be to document the
greek's approach to women and homosexuality and contrast that to the
roman version. A modern version could be commented on which would
look at modern or recent history of women's homosexuality in Japan.
A common thread here is the 'cloistered' woman and her response for
love, intimacy, and learning.

I feel these are 'bisexual' topics because in none of these cultures
there is a major theme of independent households consisting of two
same sex individuals. In all of them the woman 'did her societal
duty' but then found alternatives for the 'passion and love' in the
same-sex relationships.

In defference to modern trendyness, the analysis could be better
done as 'what great accomplishments these relationship may produce'
rather than 'those poor subjugated souls and what they had to do to
find love'.
-- 

John Clark
jclark@ucsd.edu
From: rsr@soda.berkeley.edu (Roy S. Rapoport)
Newsgroups: soc.bi
Subject: Re: Yet Another Demuffining(sp?)
Date: 12 Oct 1992 05:26:10 GMT
Organization: U.C. Berkeley, CS Undergraduate Association
NNTP-Posting-Host: soda.berkeley.edu

In article <26766@castle.ed.ac.uk> mlloyd@castle.ed.ac.uk (M Lloyd) writes:
->Warm, welcoming *hug*gy things! :-)

*utterly misinterprets the target of those huggy things*

Hey, thanks, Mike! *warm hugs*

->Mike, who thinks that recent trends require a change of name from "muffins"
->to "tribbles"

*pout* But, but ... I can deal with being an ex-muffin ... 

I do oh-so-much wish I was a tribble, though ... and if you change the name
to tribbles, you're going to make me regret de-muffining ...

*snugglepounce*


-- 
Roy S. Rapoport         rsr@soda.berkeley.edu          bi-bdsm@ocf.berkeley.edu
   "The things that seem beautiful, inspiring, and life-affirming to me seem
    ugly, hateful, and ludicrous to most other people." -Pat Califia, _M_S_
DISCLAIMER:  "I meant every word of it ... but nobody else did."
Newsgroups: soc.bi
From: borah@cs.cornell.edu (Vicki Borah)
Subject: Re: Femme/Butch in Bisexuality
Keywords: Femme Butch
Organization: Cornell Univ. CS Dept, Ithaca NY 14853
Date: Wed, 14 Oct 1992 00:36:15 GMT

I note with some amusement that although I am definitively femme, in
looks and attitude, I enjoy dressing up in 'butch' clothes (ie
tuxedo). However, I do it in a flashy, attention-getting way, thus
fitting in with your femme definition. Guess I can't ever be butch
after all....
Hopelessly girlishly yours,
Vicki
From: SA121@phx.cam.ac.uk (Arrowsmith)
Newsgroups: soc.bi
Subject: Re: Teensy Weensy Virginities
Date: 15 Oct 92 15:42:40 GMT
Organization: Surrealists against Lobsters

In article <1992Oct14.230807.4101@infodev.cam.ac.uk> crj10@phx.cam.ac.uk (Clive Jones) writes:
>virginity is a label, just like bisexual, and people should only use
>it if they're comfortable with it.
>
Hey, I'm far more comfortable with "virgin" than not -- but by the four/
five/nine types defined elsewhere in the thread, I still am anyway.  Now,
what was that about bisexuals being promiscuous (-8 

--
\S
SA121@phx.cam.ac.uk   | There's nowt |"And in this moment, I need to be needed
sarrowsm@nyx.cs.du.edu| so queer as  |"When my self-esteem is sinking,
                      | folk....     |"I like to be liked" -- Peter Gabriel
Newsgroups: soc.bi
From: gtoal@ibmpcug.co.uk (Graham Toal)
Subject: Re: Two women (and other stuff)
Organization: The IBM PC User Group, UK.
Date: Thu, 15 Oct 1992 01:24:24 GMT

In article <1bhebuINNjg@agate.berkeley.edu> rsr@soda.berkeley.edu (Roy S. Rapoport) writes:
>Oh God ... I just realized this article is over 100 lines long ... this went
>from being a "you're clueless" sorta-gentle-flame to a piece of my mind ...

Am I alone in thinking this article was deliberate flame-fodder?  Probably
an unattended terminal... (I'm sure they have them in Zuid Afrika too...)

G
--
From: SA121@phx.cam.ac.uk (Arrowsmith)
Newsgroups: soc.bi
Subject: Re: "MORAL" Obligations, was: Re: being "in love"
Date: 8 Oct 92 13:45:34 GMT
Organization: Surrealists against Lobsters

In article <ringo.718477457@craft.camp.clarkson.edu> ringo@craft.camp.clarkson.edu (Ringo) writes:
>eleanor@cbnews.cb.att.com (eleanor.j.evans) writes:
>
>>Here's a question I've been struggling with.  I'm out to my younger
>>sister, but not to my older--no big deal, just haven't gotten around
>>to telling her, yet.  (We don't talk much.)  I'm not out to my mother.
>>Should I be?
>
>>So, what's my obligation, here?  Have I a moral duty to advance the
>>cause?  And would coming out to my mother, in fact, have that effect??
>
> [ ... ]
>
>I don't think anyone has an obligation to tell anyone anything. Their
>obligation is to be true to THEMSELVES. Not their parents. It's only a
>politically correct notion to be close to your parents. You don't have
>to be, though. You didn't choose them, and if you feel an already weak
>relationship with them will be compromised, then don't do it. Do it 
>when you feel they are ready, and when you are ready.
>
Hmmm, it depends a great deal how close you are to your parents -- it
may be easy for you to just look after number one, and consider being
close to parents as merely PC, but I find it somewhat disturbing, even
offensive, to find a general recommendation to ignore your parents.
Sure, in some cases it will be the right thing to do, but if someone
is even considering the question as to whether to come out to a parent
or not, then it's probably not that helpful -- they're probably alreasy
close enough for it to matter.

If you have a moral obligation, it's not so much to "the cause" as to
yourself, being honest with yourself, and your parent(s), if you feel
you owe it to them to be honest, if you have a sense of filial devotion.
I know a few people had trouble understanding why I didn't come out
generally until after I'd told my parents, but I feel they had a *right*
to know, moreso than anyone else, hence should be told first.

I don't think I would have come out if I hadn't been involved with a
motss, but I probably wouldn't have identified as bisexual if I hadn't
been, so I have no idea how to cope with coming out with no, er, 
supporting evidence.

Eleanor: ignore us and follow your heart.


--
\S
SA121@phx.cam.ac.uk   | There's nowt |"And in this moment, I need to be needed
sarrowsm@nyx.cs.du.edu| so queer as  |"When my self-esteem is sinking,
                      | folk....     |"I like to be liked" -- Peter Gabriel
From: SA121@phx.cam.ac.uk (Arrowsmith)
Newsgroups: soc.bi
Subject: Re: Teensy Weensy Virginities
Date: 16 Oct 92 12:58:52 GMT
Organization: Surrealists against Lobsters

In article <1992Oct14.230807.4101@infodev.cam.ac.uk> crj10@phx.cam.ac.uk (Clive Jones) writes:
>I also came to the conclusion that virginity was a matter of degree.
>For quite a long while I used to have to ask people what they meant by
>virginity before I could say whether or not I was a virgin. Luckily,
>it didn't exactly matter to me what labels people wanted to use -
>virginity is a label, just like bisexual, and people should only use
>it if they're comfortable with it.
>
Right, having made one flippant comment, here's something serious: it's
a very different sort of label to "bisexual" in the following manner.
Most peoplehere would agree that there is a continuum of sexual
orientation, to the extent that the concept can become meaningless
at times.  However, virginity is something a little more discrete,
it has a series of levels, each of these "teensy virginities" we're
talking about breaking.  You can't arbitrarily assign yourself a level
in the way you can with your sexuality -- you've either done something,
or you haven't, and that fixes you as being on one side of the divide or
the other.  The fluidity in the term arises from imprecise definitions
of what "virginity" is, and what each of the discrete levels consists
of.

--
\S
SA121@phx.cam.ac.uk   | There's nowt |"And in this moment, I need to be needed
sarrowsm@nyx.cs.du.edu| so queer as  |"When my self-esteem is sinking,
                      | folk....     |"I like to be liked" -- Peter Gabriel
From: rlebeau@cats.ucsc.edu (Robert Charles Lebeau)
Newsgroups: soc.bi
Subject: Re: National Coming Out Day - A Promise to Myself
Date: 16 Oct 1992 06:15:33 GMT
Organization: University of Children who don't believe in Santa Claus
NNTP-Posting-Host: si.ucsc.edu


>In article <1bbh34INN11v@darkstar.UCSC.EDU> rlebeau@cats.ucsc.edu (Robert Charles Lebeau) writes:
>

[all my crap deleted to save space]

Roy writes:
>
>Well, advice is worth what you pay for it ... but I'll tell you my
>experience.
>
>At the time I realized I was bi, I had about oh, maybe 4-5 _VERY_ close
>friends ... I really really wanted to tell them.  Intelectually (sp?) I knew
>nothing would change ... that didn't stop me from going '*gulp*' whenever I
>thought of it ... I finally did it, in a short email letter that I sent
>them, and I was trembling in my boots ... they took it in stride, and at
>least _I_ don't see any difference in our relationship.
>
>Actually, that's not exactly true.  There is a difference.  Firstly, I've
>started sharing with them more, and generally speaking, our relationship has
>deepened.  Also, we've started flirting ... but that's my choice :) ...
>
>"Just do it" is a lousy advice, considering how little I know.  But you
>might want to consider it.
>
>-- 
>Roy S. Rapoport          rsr@soda.berkeley.edu            bdsm@ocf.berkeley.edu

	Well I have pretty much made up my mind to do it when I see him.
Unfortunately he has decided that for economic reasons (he doesn't even
have enough money for rent) that he isn't going to the concert after
all.  But since I will be down in LA for about 4 days I will make up
an excuse to see him and then I will tell him.  I have a feeling that
he won't be too surprised.  After all he has been my best friend for
about 8 years and the subject of sexuality has come up several times
between us.

				Thanks for the advice,

				Robert

Free advice is the best kind...after all if its wrong you didn't 
stupidly pay for it.


----------------------------------------------------------------------
Robert LeBeau--> rlebeau@cats.ucsc.edu    (sig under construction)
"witty quote goes here" -- some famous or obscure source
This space reserved for drawing using keyboard symbols
----------------------------------------------------------------------
From: jclark@sdcc3.ucsd.edu (John Clark)
Newsgroups: soc.bi
Subject: Re: for play
Date: 13 Oct 92 06:03:51 GMT
Organization: University of California, San Diego

In article <1992Oct11.181721.7508@mnemosyne.cs.du.edu> tweaver@nyx.cs.du.edu (T.C.Weaver) writes:
+
+Yeah, right. You're willing to sleep with someone, but not to talk. I can
+*almost* see this by changing into SuperQueer, diving out of the closet with
+my underpants over my trousers and declaiming that all those folks out there
+succumbing to their terrible urges have lots of hormones and no brains.

Actually, hormones are not fast responders, the brain and it's
appreciation of beauty is, and hence increase the flow of hormones.

(Now of course we quickly decend into a discussion as to whether
your underwear either outside or inside your pants is an
'aesthetically' pleasing display or not, or whether you, with or
without the pants are aesthetically provocative or not, then maybe a
word or two about personality, but by then everyone will be asking
who was that masked entity, was it a man, was it a woman, was it a
hermaphrodite, or just another publicity hungry superhero).
-- 

John Clark
jclark@ucsd.edu
Xref: sparky soc.bi:13598 soc.motss:42565 ba.motss:1819
From: ngervae@next.com (Nik Gervae)
Newsgroups: soc.bi,soc.motss,ba.motss
Subject: Addtion to Smurf/Bear codes? (Was Re: I am not a bisexual!!!!)
Date: 10 Oct 92 01:15:28 GMT
Followup-To: soc.bi

In article <1992Oct7.205406.20186@jupiter.sun.csd.unb.ca>  
q1hl@jupiter.sun.csd.unb.ca (Nameless CS Student) writes:
> In article <1992Oct6.233305.13530@leland.Stanford.EDU>  
mlloyd@westmark.Stanford.EDU (Mike Lloyd) writes:
> >
> >Mike Lloyd, B0/1 h- f- t w- c g+ k+ s m- e?
> Could somebody please post the Bear Codes (tm) again?  I've lost
> mine, and can't remember what any of that stuff means.

I've been wondering whether or not there ought to be a code for piercings.
Maybe just ears for Smurfs, and anywhere for Bears (the Bears I've known,
anyway... :-). A possible example is below in my .sig...it could get real
complex if we go crazy with it. Just to explain the tail end of my S2/8:

   ...p(eR)
      | ||
      | |right
      | ear
      pierced

Other than the obvious L and R for left and right, and numbers for number
of holes, we could have:

  e: ear
  n: nipple
  l: lip
  p: *ahem!* (this would probably need subclassifying :-)
  whatever other part you might have put a hole in

So you could have such things as S9...p(e3L7RnLp). Wow!

Now of course, "p" is already taken in the Bear Code, so maybe a different
letter would have to be chosen. Anyone care to run this thread into the
ground?

--
Nik "Gawd, I'm so shure, it was *just* a sugGEStion" Gervae
Software Publications ## S2/8g+-l+y++-/:!z-n-++o-+/++:x-+:a++:u-+v+:j+-p(eR)
NeXT Computer, Inc.   ## B2(go-t & sburns)f-tc-!g-(--)k--s---mr-p+
ngervae@next.com      ## [[[[NXDisclaimer alloc] init] disclaim] free];
From: cyan@uhura.cc.rochester.edu
Newsgroups: soc.bi
Subject: Re: Femme/Butch in Bisexuality
Keywords: Femme Butch
Date: 14 Oct 92 18:18:31 GMT
Organization: University of Rochester (Rochester, NY)

In article <1992Oct14.003615.23226@cs.cornell.edu> borah@cs.cornell.edu (Vicki Borah) writes:
>I note with some amusement that although I am definitively femme, in
>looks and attitude, I enjoy dressing up in 'butch' clothes (ie
>tuxedo). However, I do it in a flashy, attention-getting way, thus
>fitting in with your femme definition. Guess I can't ever be butch
>after all....
>Hopelessly girlishly yours,
>Vicki

and some of us that outwardly appear to be butch, are secretly femme....at work
and most of the time at home, I'll be wearing worn out levi's, flannel shirts
and you'll probably overhear me talking about the football games that were on
the previous weekend (I really do enjoy being butch or masculine).....but then
again, I'll let my hair down and curl it, put on make-up, falsies, silky
lingerie, a slinky dinner dress, stockings and heels and thoroughly enjoy
my femme side, although I am not interested in attracting attention from
everyone......those of us who are transgendered usually prefer to be low
profile, however in an accepting atmosphere, I love to kick up my heels.

femme-isly yours,

Sherri
From: gtoal@ibmpcug.co.uk (Graham Toal)
Newsgroups: soc.bi
Subject: Re: for play
Date: 13 Oct 92 00:19:05 GMT
Organization: The IBM PC User Group, UK.

In article <iw.718903857@tosser> iw@tosser.Rational.COM (The_Devine_Dolly) writes:
>vibrators in Good Vibes are a trip.  BTW whats your
>favourite to masturbate to music.  I love Kingdom of Rain on Mindbomb
>by The The.  

Olivia Newton-John: "You're the one that I wank, ooh ooh ooh, honey"

G
-- 
Newsgroups: soc.bi
From: jcarroll@bach.udel.edu (Royal J Carroll)
Subject: Re: National Coming Out Day
Organization: University of Delaware
Date: Mon, 12 Oct 1992 17:42:02 GMT

In article <1baj8qINNqku@agate.berkeley.edu> jcripe@garnet.berkeley.edu (Janice E. Cripe) writes:
>Since today is National Coming Out Day, I thought I'd add
>myself to the long list of people I've seen demuffining
>themselves recently and go ahead and post.
>

Welcome.  Glad you've been enjoying us!  :-)

<pounce> <slurp>  *HUGS*

-James

-- 
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
Don't damn me when I speak a piece of my mind,
'Cause silence isn't golden when I'm holding it inside.
-Axl Rose, "Don't Damn Me"-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=jcarroll@brahms.udel.edu-
Newsgroups: soc.bi
From: panda@Micor.OCUnix.on.ca (Elizabeth Holden)
Subject: Re: Geraldo
Organization: M.B. Cormier INC.
Date: Fri, 16 Oct 92 07:34:52 EDT

alan@osf.org (Alan Hamilton) writes:

> 
> Talk show hosts are usually "pretty arbitrary about what the subject
> is," unless you build a relationship with them, explain the various
> side issues that are likely to come up, and get their help in heading
> them off (or at least clearly identifying them as other issues.)
> 


No wonder I don't watch talk shows more often.  Are there none with 
intelligent hosts?  I listen to some on radio but TV hosts seem to be,  
by and large, uninformed and assinine.

Namaste,
Elizabeth

Newsgroups: soc.bi
From: eleanor@cbnews.cb.att.com (eleanor.j.evans)
Subject: Re: "MORAL" Obligations, was: Re: being "in love"
Organization: AT&T
Date: Wed, 7 Oct 1992 18:48:11 GMT

In article <ringo.718477457@craft.camp.clarkson.edu> ringo@craft.camp.clarkson.edu (Ringo) writes:
>eleanor@cbnews.cb.att.com (eleanor.j.evans) writes:
>
>>In article <1ati1rINNm9c@agate.berkeley.edu> rsr@soda.berkeley.edu (Roy S. Rapoport) writes:
>>>I generally just avoid the mess and don't tell them :).
>
>>Here's a question I've been struggling with.  I'm out to my younger
>>sister, but not to my older--no big deal, just haven't gotten around
>>to telling her, yet.  (We don't talk much.)  I'm not out to my mother.
>>Should I be?
>
>>So, what's my obligation, here?  Have I a moral duty to advance the
>>cause?  And would coming out to my mother, in fact, have that effect??
>
>..... Their
>obligation is to be true to THEMSELVES. Not their parents. It's only a
>politically correct notion to be close to your parents. You don't have
>to be, though. You didn't choose them, and if you feel an already weak
>relationship with them will be compromised, then don't do it. Do it 
>when you feel they are ready, and when you are ready.

Well, I'm about to be booted out of the KnownWorld--my mother and I
have an incredibly wonderful, close relationship.  (I also had a
happy childhood--I'm so ashamed!)  Sex, however, we simply don't
discuss--we know each other's views, and we have a mutually understood
agreement not to inflict the gory details on each other.  I don't
tell her who I'm fucking, so the gender of the persons in question
aren't an issue, any more than their identities are.  Should I start
dating a woman, however, I will feel compelled to come out to my mom.

It's kind of a wierd relationship, I guess.  I haven't even told her
that I've been married (and divorced).  It just never seemed like the
right time....  Doesn't seem strange to me, but that fact has freaked
my SO.  We do talk about almost everything--life, death, taxes, $,
the potential of me having children without 'benefit' of marriage
(I want them, and refuse to marry _just_ to get them--fortunately
she agrees), etc.

I do agree with everything you said about 'feelings' and forced
sexual revelations--I guess that's really the point, isn't it?
Thanks....

Piglet