Newsgroups: alt.discrimination,soc.culture.african.american,misc.education
Subject: Re: Institutional racism 
From: ohall@milori.ccit.arizona.edu
Date: 18 Dec 92 12:10:38 MST
 <1992Dec15.092141.1@milori.ccit.arizona.edu> <BzF9LA.CD7@quake.sylmar.ca.us>
Distribution: usa,local
Nntp-Posting-User: ohall

In article <BzF9LA.CD7@quake.sylmar.ca.us>, brian@quake.sylmar.ca.us (Brian K. Yoder) writes:
> In article <1992Dec15.092141.1@milori.ccit.arizona.edu> ohall@milori.ccit.arizona.edu writes:
>>In article <BzAvB2.38v@quake.sylmar.ca.us>, brian@quake.sylmar.ca.us (Brian K. Yoder) writes:
>>> In article <1992Dec14.112048.1@milori.ccit.arizona.edu> ohall@milori.ccit.arizona.edu writes:
>>>>In article <1992Dec12.145948.923@blkbox>, collins@blkbox (Chad R. Collins) writes:
>>>>> kls30@cd.amdahl.com (Kent L. Shephard) writes:
>   
>>>>Maybe it's because we are the most easily identifiable.  I have known blacks
>>>>who look white and they have expressed the discrimination the face when it is
>>>>discovered that they are black.  White females in the work force are commonly
>>>>faced with the problem of it not being discovered that they are married to
>>>>a black man.  Co-workers of mine experienced it and told me so. 
> 
>>> So, what are they worried about?  Being fired because they are married to
>>> a black man?  I think in most places all it would get you is a few unwelcome
>>> stares.  More than anything I think this is mostly just a case of the
>>> unusual attracting attention.  I KNOW it makes a big difference where you
>>> live too.  Here in Hollywood, I see mixed race couples all the time and I
>>> rarely take more than a passing notice of it (and neither does anyone else).
>>> In less-integrated places (places where mixed marriages are more rare) such
>>> a relationship would probably attract some attention, but do you really
>>> think it would get you fired?
> 
>>  Why should they chance it?  
> 
> My point was that the chances of any significant trouble are pretty low
> in most places.  You might be stared at is you dated an especially handsome
> man, or one 7 feet tall or one with a skin blemish.  Taking too much offense
> at such behavior means you are going to miss out on some good potential
> friends.
>
  In most places you say.  Funny how Arizona is the next state over from 
  California and there seems to be drastic differences between the attitudes
  of the inhabitants.
  Where are these "most places"?  I thought I lived in America.  What
  difference should it make what state you live in?
 
> Why should you let some bigot tell you how to live YOUR life anyway?  I
> wouldn't.
>
  Gee, wish more of the slaves would have taken that attitude while they were in
  slavery. 
  I wish more blacks would take that attitude in general.  I don't let bigots
  dictate my life.  However, they attempt to in more ways than one. 
  Consequently, I think it's best to split.  With some economic benefits 
  ofcourse.

>>  Besides who enjoys being stared at because you 
>>  are married to one of another race.  This nation is terribly behind.  It
>>  hurts and it is sick!
> 
> But don't you think things are getting better over time?  What worries me 
> is that more and more people are abandoning the idea that race isn't
> important.  Schools are teaching that people of different races think
> differently, act differently, have different faults, virtues, and reasons
> for historical guilt.  Such racist ideas cannot help but slow or reverse the
> progress made since the 1950's.
> 
  The process is tremendously slow.  It is obvious this nation is headed for
  another revoulution.  I don't like the idea and I hope no one else does.  
  However, it seems necassary, but it's no way to live every X number of years.  
  I hoped the movement of the 60's would have encouraged most citizens to go
  about the process of integration naturally, but that's not the case, and now
  it's too late, as far as I'm concerned.  Integration!  It ain't worth
  fighting for, not here.

>>>>  It's kind of bad when in a white school system a white girl says to a black
>>>>  boy "I like you but my dad would not approve...".  
> 
>>> I think these days most parents would be a bit more open-minded than that
>>> don't you?
>  
>>  These are experiences from my generation, H.S. grad. 1981.  I don't want to
>>  have children and have them go through this crap.  Again you're late America.
> 
> OK then, if that's what you think, why oppose interracial dating/marriage?
> 
  I don't oppose it.  In the eyes of the world or god I don't believe it's 
  wrong, but in the eyes of America, that's a different story.  
  Merry Christmas America!!!!
  Happy birthday Mr. Predjudice!!!!

>>>>  I'm not hung up on white
>>>>  women, but this is another example of how integration has been a failure.  
>  
>>>Oh come on!  Race relations and the freedom of blacks in this country have
>>>improved enormously since the 1950's. Things still are not perfect, but there
>>>has been tremendous progress.  Programs like affirmative action, black 
>>>colleges, black high schools, race-based set-asides in government contracts,
>>>racial social clubs, etc. are the most prominent anti-integration
>>>institutions in society.  Rather than retreating from integration, we 
>>>ought to take the next step and try to make government, our businesses,
>>>and our personal lives as color-blind as we can.  Will everything immedicately
>>>become perfect?  No.  Will there still be a few bigots?  Sure.  But isn't
>>>it still a step in the right direction?
> 
>>  As a brother stated earlier, why so long after our so called freedom we
>>finally get the supreme court to remove laws used to oppress blacks off of the 
>>books.  Do you understand the damage that has been done for such a long period
>>of time.  This nation lied and said we were free when we were not.  Like I said
>>this baby is slow.
> 
> It takes time for cultural norms to change.  If you know of any ways to
> accelerate this, I'd be happy to listen, but we DO know ways of making
> change, and you can see the past progress.  What frustrates me is when I
> make the case for individual rights and why racial minorities need to be
> included in that principle, and many minorities argue with me that they 
> don't WANT equal rights (they want special treatment and favors from the
> government instead).
>
  I have also seen the past and present regression as well!
  I am all for equal rights.  I am not for having some national rebellion 
  everytime rights are being denied.  Like I have stated earlier we could solve
  this problem permanently by parting.  Had a nice time!!!  Later!
 
>>>>So
>>>>IMO I think it's best we part, as in another nation.  We have hell living
>>>>together as one nation under god.  It's getting to be one nation under satan.
> 
>>> Is it really hell to live near people of other races?  I don't think so.
>  
>>> Would you rather live near people on the basis of their race or on the 
>>> basis of their ideas?  I'm white, but I don't have any desire to live 
>>> near Charlie Manson or David Duke.  I would much rather have honest,
>>> hard-working, tolerant black neighbors than dishonest, lazy white neighbors. 
>>> It would appear that you would choose differently.  Pretty sad.
>  
>>  Great that you have no problem living next to one of another race, but look
>>  in your own backyard(Hollywood, L.A.).  It doesn't seem people of all races
>>  are living together too well.  
> 
> I had looting going on just a couple blocks from my home, and had a chance to 
> see a lot of the action that week last April.  I completely disagree that 
> the riot was primarily an issue of racial division.  There were plenty of 
> non-blacks looting those stores, and plenty of blacks who didn't loot at all
> or burn any buildings.  It was a case of people with no moral conscience
> robbing others vs. their victims.  This was made worse by the fact that the
> police refused to even TRY to fight the riot.  To paint all blacks as the
> perpetrators of these crimes and all of the victims as whites (or koreans)
> is factually false and is a misanalysis of the whole situation.  I was there.
>
  What?  Please!!!  I lived in L.A. for a year.  I spoke to many blacks and
  there is definitely a race problem.  I even experienced it myself.  Read some
  of my past postings.  Are you trying to say every time you get groups of
  people from various minority groups together burning down buildings and 
  looting, in the U.S., that they are just hoods or immoral?  History proves
  otherwise.  I hate to break your bubble, but there were many of people who 
  weren't rioting, yet supported the rioters.  The white collar minorities
  certainly weren't going to get down in the ghetto and start rioting, but many
  of them were down.  Many celebrities supported the riot and felt it was
  justified.  I won't mention any names.
  In case you don't understand what's happening.  The action of the L.A.
  rioters is just a physical expression from the poor minorities which the more
  wealthy minorities can't express in that manner, thus loosing what they have
  already.  Yet both feel the same way.

>>  I mean don't you think there might just be a
>>  little problem there in the cross cultural L.A.?
> 
> There are SOME problems of racial tension in LA.  I think that those who have
> been whipping up such sentiments are very few in number, and very many of
> them are on the black side such as Louis Farakahn and his ilk.  Of course
> there are white racists around too, but they don't have rallies and meetings
> in LA (at least nothing like that makes it into the press, which would 
> certainly (rightly) make a big deal out of it.  Remember the "aryan woodstock"?   

>>  Might I add I lived in California for 4.5 years and why is it that there are
>>  all these racially seperate neighborhoods in this wonderful melting pot.  Is 
>>  this nation really working together for the benefit of all as a nation
>>  should?  
> 
> I think that the neighborhoods are MOSTLY segregated by economics, but I agree
> that some people prefer to live apart from members of other races.  Those
> folks are pretty irrational.  Do you want to encourage such behavior?  
>
  This is America and they have the right to live where they want.  I just
  wish Diana Ross didn't have to go through housing discrimination when she 
  attempted to purchase a home in Conneticut, and her neighbors sun did'nt
  think she was the maid.
  If she is experiencing this type of discrimination, just imagine what I
  experience.
  
> Besides, I live in a pretty nice place here in Hollywood and I have lots of 
> black neighbors.  Where's the big problem?
> 
  Nice.  I'm glad you're happy.  You're one in a million.

>>  Kingdoms rise and kingdoms fall and America is no exemption.  This nation
>>  could loose its blessings in the twinkling of an eye.
> 
> Sure, I agree.  Now for the big question.  What is the source of those
> blessings?  How can we lose that?  and What should we do to avoid that?
>
  How can we loose that?  Looks like we are in the process to me.
 
> Is re-segregation the solution?  I completely disagree.
>
  Too bad so do I.  Disagree that is. 
Xref: sparky alt.discrimination:5318 soc.culture.african.american:12904 misc.education:5279