HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: imc7142@venus.tamu.edu (CHOUDHURY, IFTEKHARUDDIN MOHAMM)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.bangladesh
Subject: Babri Masjid--cyclic action-reaction
Date: 11 Dec 1992 17:52 CST
Organization: Texas A&M University, Academic Computing Services
Distribution: usa
NNTP-Posting-Host: venus.tamu.edu
Keywords: Bangladesh
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41    

It is extremely shocking, painful, and disturbing to see the ugly
faces of communal forces on the rise in Bangladesh which were believed
to have been uprooted some twentyone years back. People of this region
always fought against these forces, stood up against religious militancy,
which ultimately to the emancipation of Bangladesh as a nation. Bengali
culture provides a focus for a regional nationalism which is quite
distinct from the people's religious identity. It was always the power
structure which attempted to invoke religious nationalism to strenghten
its control; it hardly had any appeal at grass roots level.

The current expression of mass hysteria is not, therefore, comprehensible.
It is surprising to see a people who fought against fundamentalism going
back to the clutches of the same ominous force. I earnestly hope, and
would very much like to believe, that the shameful reactions to an action
that took place elsewhere were but a sporadic outburst of mass frenzy;
it will subside and sanity will prevail.

I would like to end this note with a quote which seems to highly relevant
to contemporary sub-continent:

"On each occassion one should honor another man's sect, for by doing so
one increases the influence of one's own sect and benefits that of the
other man; while by doing otherwise one diminishes the influence of one's
own sect and harms the other man's. Again, whosoever honors his own sect
or disparges that of another man, wholly out of devotion to his own, with
a view to showing it in a favorable light, harms his own sect even more
seriously. Therefore, concord is to be commended, so that man hear one
another's principles and obey them".--Emperor Asoka.

Iftekhar Choudhury
Texas A & M University  

Newsgroups: soc.culture.bangladesh,soc.culture.indian,soc.culture.pakistan
From: verma@pfeast.enet.dec.com (Virendra Verma)
Subject: Re: Islam Preaching Equality
Organization: Digital Equipment Corporation
Date: 18 DEC 92 13:41:10    



	Sure they are - if you become one of them you become equal.
	So when every one becomes Muslim, all of them are equal.

	If the above statement is false, then stop conversions and
	stop being hypocrites.

	Same applies to Budhists, Christians and Bhai's or Baha's?

--------------------------------------------------------------------------
Disclaimer:
I express my views under the freedom of speech guaranteed by the constitution
of the United States of America. My employer is not responsible for any
damage or damages caused as a result of my writings. I use my employer's
facilities for a cost of putting extra two hours per week.

WORMA, the WORMS charmer and WORM Abater.

-- Virendra Verma
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: khaleq@brahms.udel.edu (Mohame Khalequzzaman)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.bangladesh
Subject: Re: Request: Address of the Bangladesh PM
Date: 15 Dec 92 23:45:47 GMT
Organization: University of Delaware


 My knowledge of the PM's address is :

Her Exellency Begum Khaleda Zia
Prime Minister
The People's Republic of Bangladesh
Sugandha (PM's Secretariat)
Ramna, Dhaka
Bangladesh
From: hakim@unssun.nevada.edu (Ashraf Al Hakim)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.bangladesh
Subject: Re: NEARLY A DOZEN MOSQUES DESTROYED YESTERDAY
Date: 16 Dec 92 04:58:09 GMT
Reply-To: hakim@unssun.UUCP (Ashraf Al Hakim)
Organization: University of Nevada-Reno


"God tests his own people to see the faith they have in him."
Newsgroups: soc.culture.bangladesh
From: rafatm@sage.cc.purdue.edu (unknown)
Subject: Re: Jamat and the ban question
Organization: Purdue University
Date: Sun, 13 Dec 1992 15:46:54 GMT

In article <NAEEM.92Dec12220855@occs.cs.oberlin.edu>, naeem@occs.cs.oberlin.edu (Naeem Mohaiemen) writes:
> In article <Bz5G8F.7J8@mentor.cc.purdue.edu> rafatm@sage.cc.purdue.edu (unknown) writes:
> 
>    Not necessarily. The right wing radicals do not enjoy widespread grassroot
>    level political support unlike their counterparts in Egypt and Algeria; at 
>    least not yet.
> ----
> By "right wing radical" are you referring to Jamaat in bangladesh? If so I 
> would disagree with the statement. Jamaat has rural poor and educated middle
> class support base which is growing at a rapid pace.In the last parliamentary 
> elections, over 60% of Jamaat candidates were from educated middle class--
> a number far in excess of those of BNP and AL.

   You are partialy correct. I stated in my article that they do not yet enjoy  widespread support. The fundamentalists in Algeria enjoy such support all throughout the
country that they managed to win the elections. I do not think that the Jamaat
has that capability yet. Secondly, since you brought the issue of the last   
parliamentary elections, let us bear in mind that the Jamaat managed to capture
only eighteen seats. None of those were from Dhaka. The Jamaat`s support may be
growing, but it does not even come close to that of the BNP, AL, or perhaps
even the Jatiya Party (they did win 35 seats). 

regards
Rafat Sadiq
 
Newsgroups: soc.culture.bangladesh
From: hasan@cs.washington.edu (Shams Hasan)
Subject: Re: Why is everyone discussing religion on this newsgroup?
Organization: Computer Science & Engineering, U. of Washington, Seattle
Date: Sat, 19 Dec 92 21:07:56 GMT

Dear Mr. Rafat Sadiq,

I gather from your article that because religion has a big part in Pakistani
and Bangladeshi culture religion is OK to preach on SCB/SCP, ?

Well, can you please inform the rest of the netters, including myself, apart
from Eid/Ramadaan (which by the way is mis-used by Mullahs by keeping 
restaurants closed, which is un-islamic and in-humane), / and Jumma prayers,
which are led by a majority of illeterate, uncouth, ill-bred and uninformed
mullahs who have not worked a single day in a productive manner for society
or for themselves and family, what is religion got to do with SCP/SCB ?

If it is a case of just pressing n, then I guess we can have articles from
anywhere who can say that their issues have something to do with Pakistan ?
For example, Indian Hindoos who have grudges against muslims, British radicals
who hate Pakistanis invading their country on one pre-text or another, Japanese
people who have experienced illegitimate entries by Pakistanis in Japan and
are mad about the Pakistanis activities in their countries, etc, etc.

When there is a religious forum for Islam, and rightly so, then why must you
and people like you propagate the belief that Pakistanis are lawless, rude and
uncouth, and ill-bred people with no consideration of decency and polite
behaviour, with little concern for decorum and organization.

The point I have tried to make, is, if we can mobilize a majority of Pakistanis
educated abroad to focus our attentions on REAL issues, eg, EDUCATION, POVERTY,
SOCIAL PROBLEMS, ECONOMIC ISSUES, AGRICULTURAL ISSUES, MEDICAL ISSUES, etc,
etc, than I think soc.culture.pakistan will become a newsgroup where all Pakis/
and Paki/Americans would like to be, wether they are religious or not, Muslim
or not.

Best Regards,
Shams Hasan.

Xref: sparky soc.culture.bangladesh:6640 soc.culture.indian:40388 soc.culture.pakistan:17982
From: samaddar@siemens.com (Sumitro Samaddar)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.bangladesh,soc.culture.indian,soc.culture.pakistan
Subject: Reconversions (was Re: Babri Masjid demolished)
Date: 10 Dec 92 22:08:10 GMT
Reply-To: samaddar@siemens.com
Followup-To: soc.culture.bangladesh

mirza@vxcrna.cern.ch (MIRZA,I./EP) writes:

>>If Islam has spread by Sword and by the force then why Muslims(converted) 
>>still like to remain Muslims and not rejoin their old faith. 
>>^^^^^^^^^^  
>>Bye 
>>Adil 
>>  
>	In Spain after fall of Qurdaba several thousand moors were 
>	converted to christianity by force in only one day. Why they 
>	dont get back to their orignal religion Islam? 

I suspect that forcibly converted people (a) hate their original religion
for having failed to protect them and (b) as a psychological defence mechanism
start believing that they really converted willingly, or (c) like the so
called "Stockholm syndrome" get brainwashed by their tormentors and turn
into willing participants.

Sumitro

P.S. "Stockholm syndrome" refers to the case where a hostage starts
     sympathizing with his/her captors after listening to the captors'
     "cause" repeatedly.

Newsgroups: soc.culture.bangladesh
From: jakhan@IASTATE.EDU (Javed Ahmed Khan)
Subject: Re: Reconversions (was Re: Babri Masjid demolished)
Reply-To: jakhan@IASTATE.EDU (Javed Ahmed Khan)
Organization: Iowa State University
Date: Sat, 12 Dec 1992 02:26:59 GMT

In article <samaddar.724025290@dumbo>, samaddar@siemens.com (Sumitro Samaddar)
writes:
> mirza@vxcrna.cern.ch (MIRZA,I./EP) writes:
> 
> >>If Islam has spread by Sword and by the force then why Muslims(converted) 
> >>still like to remain Muslims and not rejoin their old faith. 
> >>^^^^^^^^^^  
> >>Bye 
> >>Adil 
> >>  
> >	In Spain after fall of Qurdaba several thousand moors were 
> >	converted to christianity by force in only one day. Why they 
> >	dont get back to their orignal religion Islam? 
> 
> I suspect that forcibly converted people (a) hate their original religion
> for having failed to protect them and (b) as a psychological defence
mechanism
> start believing that they really converted willingly, or (c) like the so
> called "Stockholm syndrome" get brainwashed by their tormentors and turn
> into willing participants.



Isn't this a very simplistic explanation? The question is whether present day
muslims owe their belief in Islam to invaders or the family in which they were
born. I really don't see a connection between my belief in Islam and the
actions
of "muslim" invaders. They may very well have forcibly converted my forefathers
to Islam ( which was not the case ) but it has no bearing on my belief in
Islam.

Again by the same token lower caste Hindus should shun their belief in Hinduism
because of the horrible injustice meted out to their forefathers and to them by
their co-religionists.





> 
> Sumitro
> 
> P.S. "Stockholm syndrome" refers to the case where a hostage starts
>      sympathizing with his/her captors after listening to the captors'
>      "cause" repeatedly.
> 


--Javed.
Newsgroups: soc.culture.bangladesh,soc.culture.indian,soc.culture.pakistan
From: mirza@vxcrna.cern.ch (MIRZA,I./EP)
Subject: Re: Islam Preaching Equality
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41    
Organization: European Organization for Nuclear Research, CERN
Date: Thu, 17 Dec 1992 07:46:00 GMT

In article <1gnpm7INN275@CURIE.SYSTEMSY.CS.YALE.EDU>, ahmed-shakil@cs.yale.edu (Shakil Waiz Ahmed) writes...
> 
>In article <16DEC199214405348@vxcrna.cern.ch>, mirza@vxcrna.cern.ch (MIRZA,I./EP) writes:
>> In article <1glkvtINN91@CURIE.SYSTEMSY.CS.YALE.EDU>, ahmed-shakil@cs.yale.edu (Shakil Waiz Ahmed) writes...
> 
>....All sentiments and completely irrelevant parts removed
> 
>-- Shakil

	So you did exactly what I thought you would. This you also
	did when you were discussing BING BANG.

	Please read my post carefully again and give me one number.
	You can come up with any "COMPLEX" example you wish then
	findout the ratio "Share of a brother/Share of a sister"
	I bet if you have ever read QURAN then this ratio is 2
	(ALWAYS) and if you have ever studied Mathematics then 2 is twice
	as large as 1, and which implies further that  2 is not 
	EQUAL to one (In mathematics we do not say that 2 is
	not identical to 1).

	[Let us first settle heritage problem. I definitely have lot
	 to say about other unequal aspects of women in ISLAM like
	 you mentioned multiple wifes and wife beating etc,
	 but I will leave it to next posts. One at one time.]

	NB You have been very kind to quote from QURAN parts on multiple
	   wifes and wife beating which we are not even discussing here.
	   Would you be kind to quote the parts relavent to our discussion
	   namely heritage laws and witness, I thought QURAN does say
	   something about it, or may be I have not read it!!!!

	[I did memorize a large part of Quran when I was young and
	 I do feel that most likely I remember the parts I am talking
	 here, rather correctly but since I am not sure I am not quoting.
	 I am making a request to a Mosque in ZURICH to send me
	 a copy of QURAN, After I get the copy I will be glad to quote]
	
Mirza Ilyas
From: milind@agni.cc.nd.edu (Milind Saraph)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.bangladesh
Subject: Re: On Rafats view of Hindu society
Date: 16 Dec 92 17:08:20 GMT
Reply-To: milind@agni.cc.nd.edu (Milind Saraph)
Organization: Univ. of Notre Dame

kundu@watson.ibm.com (Sandip Kundu) writes:

>I have read the new testament. I have not come across any
>evidence to justify that "the sun goes around the earth" or
>that the "earth is flat".

This is from lippard@skyblu.ccit.arizona.edu (James J. Lippard):

****

It's not stated, it's implied by verses such as Exodus 20:4, Deut. 4:18, 5:8,
Psalms 136:6, 2 Peter 3:5 (the earth rests on and was formed out of water),
1 Sam. 2:8 (it rests on pillars), 1 Chronicles 16:30 (it does not move),
Deut. 13:7, 28:64, 33:17, 1 Sam. 2:10, Job 28:24, 37:3, 38:4-6, 38:13,
Psalms 46:9, 48:10, 59:13, 61:2, 65:5, Isaiah 11:12, Revelation 7:1 (it
has edges and four corners).
   By the way, circles are two dimensional.

****

The "It" refers to an explicit statement that the earth is flat.  You 
may disagree with these verses indeed imply such a thing.

-- Milind Saraph
Newsgroups: soc.culture.bangladesh,soc.culture.pakistan
From: sahmed@occs.cs.oberlin.edu (Saif Ahmed)
Subject: Biharis
Organization: Oberlin College Computer Science
Date: Sun, 20 Dec 1992 02:09:14 GMT
X-Posted-From: occs.cs.oberlin.edu
NNTP-Posting-Host: sol.ctr.columbia.edu

Some Bihari's are saying that they will now accept Bangladeshi
citizenship if offerred rather than go to Pakistan. 
Full news article later

Saif
--
                                                                          _
                                                                         / \
 ________________________________________________________________________\_/
/ \  							                   |
\_/ 									   |
| | Saifuddin Ahmed                                                        |
| | sahmed@occs.cs.oberlin.edu                                             |
| |________________________________________________________________________/
\_/


Xref: sparky soc.culture.bangladesh:6849 soc.culture.pakistan:18444
From: khaleq@brahms.udel.edu (Mohame Khalequzzaman)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.bangladesh,soc.culture.pakistan
Subject: Death threat on News Groups
Date: 18 Dec 92 20:23:06 GMT
Organization: University of Delaware


From news.udel.edu!udel!rochester!cornell!batcomputer!rpi!usc!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!moe.ksu.ksu.edu!crcnis1.unl.edu!cse!fall266 Thu Dec 17 19:26:58 EST 1992
Article: 9252 of soc.culture.bangladesh
Xref: news.udel.edu soc.culture.bangladesh:9252 soc.culture.indian:16130 soc.culture.pakistan:30868
From: fall266@cse.unl.edu ()
Newsgroups: soc.culture.bangladesh,soc.culture.indian,soc.culture.pakistan
Subject: Re: East Pakistani (!) Jamati strikes on Victory Day
Date: 17 Dec 1992 05:31:31 GMT
Organization: University of Nebraska--Lincoln	
Distribution: na
NNTP-Posting-Host: cse.unl.edu


Mr Khaliq

If you want to be burned like Hindus let us know when you want to die.

Why prepearing fire for your self in this world and the hell .

All three acters died by there own people their killer served them first and all of them were batryed.

why dont you learn the lesson from others ?  Are you waiting for the same to learn?

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------The above letter (scb article 9252), part of which is deleted, was posted
on scb and scp in response to my posting "East Pakistani (!) Jamati strikes
on Victory Day.  Every sensible person can see that it is a direct life threat
to me.  This posting also prove that the poster was offended by the truth that
Jamaat still does not believe in Bangladesh.  He himself might be a jamaat
supporter.  If he is I don't have anything personal against him, but apparently
he/she has personal grievance against me.  He/she did not have any logic or
explanation against my posting.  Any harsh word comes from weak mind and that's
what scares me most.  These people with no sense of logic can do anything.  They
don't have strong arguments to counter someone else's logic or rational arguments, as a result they start to feel frustrated and inferior.  This frutration or
inferiority can lead them to destructive actions.  That is what the Pakistani
Army did in Bangladesh and that's what the fundamentalists like Jamatis are
doing right now in Bangladesh and elsewhere.

A sensible person will try to counter argue with ratinal ideas and thinking.
But as all of us know most of the fundamentalists don't care about logic.
Killing a person for ideas and thoughts is abarbarian act.

I take this message seriously and I tell you right now that no person is
immortal in this world, neither am I.  And will stand for my country til
I die.  It doesn't mean I have to die in the hands of fundamentalists
helplessly.

I want to mind the sender of this threat that if anything happens to me
or to my family then the entire nation, especially the people who read
your threat on the news network WILL HOLD YOU RESPOSIBLE.  If you send
any more such threats I will contact the proper lowenforcing authority.
Remember that you cannot get away with anything in this civilized world.

Khaleq
Newsgroups: soc.culture.bangladesh
From: nd3375@meibm5.cen.uiuc.edu (Nishit Dey)
Subject: Re: NEARLY A DOZEN MOSQUES DESTROYED YESTERDAY
Organization: University of Illinois at Urbana
Date: Tue, 15 Dec 1992 21:38:52 GMT

B.Kumar@cs.ucl.ac.uk writes:

>Repl to: soc.culture.indian, soc.culture.pakistan, soc.culture.bangladesh

>The earthquake department of Allah's adiministration destroyed
>nearly a dozen mosques in INDONESIA by causing a powerful earthquake
>on 15 devcember.

>BBC reported that this powerful earthquake killed over 1000 people 
>and injured several thousand others.


My only comment


AN ARTICLE OF VERY POOR TASTE. I THINK YOU SHOULD JOIN THE FAN CLUB OF
MUSTAFA IBRAHIM FROM COLADARO.

Take it easy


Nishit



P.S  A request to all my Bangladeshi brothers and sisters. Please ignore
the posting by this moron. He is sick.
From: rafatm@sage.cc.purdue.edu (unknown)
Subject: Re: Jamat and technicalities
Organization: Purdue University
Date: Sun, 13 Dec 1992 23:22:22 GMT

In article <1992Dec13.202714.2703@news.clarkson.edu>, haque@sunray.ece.clarkson.edu (Anisul Haque,,,) writes:
> 
> In article 92Dec12220306@occs.cs.oberlin.edu, naeem@occs.cs.oberlin.edu (Naeem Mohaiemen) writes:
> 
> > Ghulam Azam did not refuse citizenship, he was denied citizenship by Foreign
> > ministry.
> 
> Golam Azam (isn't that the correct spelling?) did refuse Bangladeshi Citizenship. 
> After 16th December, '71, he opted for Pakistan. Foreign ministry denied to 
> grant him citizenship when he reapplied later.
> 
> > Naeem Mohaiemen
> 
> Regards,
> 
> Anisul Haque
> Clarkson University
> 

If Golam Azam does not have Bangladeshi citizenship, can the govt. not try him for interefering in internal affairs. It is a crime for expatriates to involve 
themselves in Bangladeshi party politics.
Rafat Sadiq
Newsgroups: soc.culture.bangladesh
From: basaran@beach.csulb.edu (Mete)
Subject: test
Reply-To: basaran@beach.csulb.edu
Organization: Cal State Long Beach
Date: Sat, 19 Dec 1992 01:58:37 GMT

test

Xref: sparky soc.culture.bangladesh:6915 soc.culture.pakistan:18557
From: fall266@cse.unl.edu
Newsgroups: soc.culture.bangladesh,soc.culture.pakistan
Subject: Re: Death threat on News Groups
Date: 21 Dec 92 03:46:44 GMT
Distribution: na
Organization: University of Nebraska--Lincoln
NNTP-Posting-Host: cse.unl.edu


 I had sent my apology earlear but may be system broke down .  But in case that is gone with the wind.  I ask for appoplogy of mr khakiq for any death threat or any confussion of such a threat which he might think i ever intnded  i have taked my mail back I will change it with suitable word to avoid any more"threat " 
.  You have different openian then I do and still have the my same position.
that Mujeeb gave up the right to rull the whole pakistan and did what bhutoo wanted him to do.  He was rightfully ellected leader of pakistan.  
	I am sure that I have love and respect for pakistan and bangladesh both.But let me tell you that BD have long way to go. I hope in future we will see a better, strong and prosper bangladesh.  I wish all bangladeshies good luck.
Xref: sparky soc.culture.bangladesh:6789 soc.culture.indian:41052 soc.culture.pakistan:18290
From: milind@agni.cc.nd.edu (Milind Saraph)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.bangladesh,soc.culture.indian,soc.culture.pakistan
Subject: Re: Islam Preaching Equality
Date: 16 Dec 92 19:18:06 GMT
Reply-To: milind@agni.cc.nd.edu (Milind Saraph)
Organization: Univ. of Notre Dame

From: ahmed-shakil@cs.yale.edu (Shakil Waiz Ahmed)
> The critic of Islam will argue further than Islam permits beating
> women.  .....

[stuff deleted]

> While there are many arguments on whether the word ``beat'' is really an
> appropriate translation, one need not point to that in setting the
> critic straight.  Capital punishment is not a foreign concept to
> Islam.  In fact, many punishments in Islam are physical in nature.

So the critic of Islam is right.  Islam does permit beating wives,
although lightly.

> Then there is always the most common stereotype and misconception,
> namely that regarding polygyny.  The Qur'an is quite clear in
> specifying the stringent conditions under which it may be permissible:

> It is quite clear from the above that the polygyny allowance is purely
> for humanitarian reasons.  The ``if'' clause above distinctly states
> that the question of polygyny only arises when there are orphans to
> take care of. 

and then later...

> Since this is obviously very difficult to
> do, and the Qur'an mentions this in the same sura (see 4:129), it
> follows that polygyny can only occur under the most exceptional
> circumstances.  

In a discussion on this issue, you said that the Sura 4:129 overrides
4:3.  Ms Rukhsana Merchant posted the following from the Quran.

****
         "If you fear that you shall not be able to deal justly
         with the orphans, marry women of your choice, two, or three,
         or four; but if you fear that you shall not be able to deal
         justly (with them), then (marry) only one..." (Qur'an 4:3)    ... (1)
 
         "You are never able to be fair and just as between women
         even if it is your ardent desire...."  (Qur'an 4:129)         ... (2)
****

Sura 4:129 seems to rule out polygamy unambiguously.  It seems polygamy
is not "very difficult" but impossible.  If I recall correctly, you 
said that polygamy may be allowed for men with multiple wives converting
to Islam.

> Needless to say, this line of reasoning fails to take into
> account the complex social situations under which polygyny is
> permitted -- it is obviously not something for everyone.  But it also
> fails to take into account the problem of infinite family chains.  If
> polyandry were also permitted, it is very easy to show mathematically
> that one could end up with infinite family chains.  Given the
> importance that Islam places on family structure, the problems of this
> are obvious.  

I am curious about mathematical demonstration of the problem of infinite
family chains.  Can you post the analysis or some reference for this?

-- Milind Saraph
Newsgroups: soc.culture.bangladesh,soc.culture.indian,soc.culture.pakistan