HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: rbn@ralph.rtpnc.epa.gov (Bob Boyd)
Newsgroups: alt.recovery
Subject: Re: Fear and indecision
Date: 15 Apr 92 15:56:32 GMT
Organization: Here & Now


One of the realizations I've had about the way I have approached life in the
past is "I have to get it RIGHT or something really BAD is going to happen --
like I might DIE if I get it WRONG!"  

Well, in recovery I'm learning that this attitude has come to me from at least
2-3 generations back if not more.  Another thing I'm learning is that there 
are other ways of looking at making decisions.  The way I grew up with leads
me to stay in a constant state of anxiety -- life is FULL of decisions that
affect my future -- and every decision carries some level of risk.  So,  how
I relate to my decisions and the results of them is what I can change -- 
I can't change the basics of making decisions -- they will be made -- I'll 
take action or refuse to take action -- both are decisions.

What I'm learning about is how to view decisions and risk taking as a process
of discovery -- life as an exploratory adventure.  There are many roads -- 
sometimes it is hard to look down the paths from the decision points and 
predict the cost/benefit balance.  I can still feel the fear of "I don't know
what lies down this path" and make a decision to choose it -- I am finding 
more and more that I can make choices because:  "I want to find out what is
down this path, and I'm willing to deal with whatever comes from taking it."

I am learning to believe that life is about doing the best I can where I am.
My life was not working (and still doesn't) when I get hung up on getting 
IT right.  When I see that I can learn from poor choices and grow, it makes
it easier to accept my mistakes as learning experiences -- instead of condemning
myself to eternal damnation for every one of them.

Another thing:  when I can look at life this way, it also helps me to say "If
I choose A instead of B, then I will miss out on what might have come from B.
This may be a loss for me -- and I choose at this moment to let go of that."
This is very different from the needy child approach that I have used that
says "I can't stand to miss out on either one, so no matter what happens I'm
going to feel angry and disappointed because I can't have it ALL at the same
time."  To me this is all about accepting my own limitations and the limits
of others and for that matter, life itself.  Sometimes I've even been 
surprised further down the road when B reenters my path without any effort on
my part to put it there -- and I can live with serenity and an occasional 
serendipity.

It does help me to externalize the awareness of what I might gain and what I
might lose by each choice and to acknowledge the loss and grief as part of 
any decision.  When I choose to ignore the loss part my inner child gets
really worked up -- one of the ways I support him is to give voice to the
feelings even when they are painful/unpleasant.  It keeps me/him alive and
well.
--

Bob Boyd
In The Here & Now
From: vinson@shiva.seas.upenn.edu (Jack Vinson)
Newsgroups: alt.recovery
Subject: Re: Two programs/two sponsors
Date: 9 Apr 92 14:25:19 GMT
Article-I.D.: netnews.73398
Distribution: usa
Organization: The University of Pennsylvania


I agree with what the other folks in our group have said here.  A sponsor
is there to share experience, strength and hope; and s/he usually "has"
something that I want to have.  

I have sponsored people who were involved in other programs and simply
suggested they ask their sponsors in those programs when there was
something I couldn't relate to -- just like I say, "I don't know, why don't
you ask Jane D. about that." when I haven't experienced something in my
personal recovery.

I have seen and heard people say that "our program is the only thing you
need."  Counselling, other programs, blah, blah.  Well, maybe they have a
problem that hasn't been taken care of yet?

The book Alcoholics Anonymous says that we don't know everything about
recovery and that we often seek outside assistance.  That's what I alway
use as an argument against people who think AA has the answer to
everything.

Jack Vinson			The Purple Puddle Eater
vinson@shiva.seas.upenn.edu
vinson@unagi.cis.upenn.edu
Newsgroups: alt.recovery
From: suhre@meltami.dsd.trw.com ()
Subject: Alcoholics Anonymous pp 5-6
Originator: suhre@meltami.dsd.trw.com
Reply-To: mdcsc!ah@uunet.UU.NET
Organization: TRW Space & Defense
Distribution: alt
Date: Thu, 16 Apr 1992 18:59:14 GMT


=============Posting for Alex=============
Alcoholics Anonymous: The Story of How Many Thousands of Men and
Women Have Recovered from Alcoholism: NEW AND REVISED EDITION,
Alcoholics Anonymous World Services, Inc., New York City, 1955.

This book (Big Book, second edition) is in the public domain.
=============================
p. 5

	Chapter 1 - Bill's Story (continued)
	
Liquor ceased to be a luxury; it became a necessity. "Bathtub" gin, two
bottles a day, and often three, got to be routine. Sometimes a small
deal would net a few hundred dollars, and I would pay my bills at the
bars and delicatessens. This went on endlessly, and I began to waken
very early in the morning shaking violently. A tumbler full of gin
followed by half a dozen bottles of beer would be required if I were to
eat any breakfast. Nevertheless, I still thought I could control the
situation, and there were periods of sobriety which renewed my wife's
hope.

Gradually things got worse. The house was taken over by the mortgage
holder, my mother-in-law died, my wife and father-in-law became ill.

Then I got a promising business opportunity. Stocks were at a low point
in 1932, and I had somehow formed a group to buy. I was to share
generously in the profits. Then I went on a prodigious bender, and that
chance vanished.

I woke up. This had to be stopped. I saw I could not take so much as
one drink. I was through forever. Before then, I had written lots of
sweet promises, but my wife happily observed that this time I meant
business. And so I did.

Shortly afterward I came home drunk. There had been no fight. Where had
been my high resolve? I simply didn't know. It hadn't even come to
mind. Someone had pushed a drink my way, and I had taken it. Was I
crazy? I began to wonder, for such an appalling lack of perspective
seemed near being just that.

Renewing my resolve, I tried again. Some time 

p. 6

passed and confidence began to be replaced by cocksureness. I could
laugh at the gin mills.  Now I had what it takes! One day I walked into
a cafe to telephone. In no time I was beating on the bar asking myself
how it happened. As the whiskey rose to my head I told myself I would
manage better next time, but I might as well get good and drunk then.
And I did.
=============End Posting for Alex=========
-- 
Maurice Suhre
suhre@trwrb.dsd.trw.com
Newsgroups: alt.recovery
From: Steve Salter <ssalter@silver.ucs.indiana.edu>
Subject: Re: Sponsor followup
Organization: OFSA
Distribution: na
Date: Thu, 16 Apr 1992 12:31:36 -0500

cowpatti@netcom.com (Patricia Mae Anthony) remarks:


>I think that as all of us have different strengths, it is also ok to let
>a person know that you have learned much from them, and that it is time
>to work on other areas, and to move on to others who have other
>strengths that we can benefit from.  For me, this relieves me of the
>"guilt" I might feel about rejecting someone, and leaves them with the
>feeling that they have made a valuable contribution to my life, which is
>usually true.
>Patricia

Funny thing about guilt...it is equally easy to feel it is gone while
all the time it has been stuffed or sublimated. I find it best for me
to not just be "relieved" of "guilt" but to actively work on that
feeling of guilt and see if I deserve it. Some guilt is good, I can
learn from it. Repressed guilt will destroy though.

Steve
Newsgroups: alt.recovery
From: maxwell@lamar.ColoState.EDU (Mark Story)
Subject: DRINK NOW!
Date: Wed, 08 Apr 1992 17:45:32 GMT
Organization: Colorado State University, Fort Collins, CO  80523

Uh....  Is there such a thing as "recovery"?
From: vva@mace.cc.purdue.edu (Claire Pedretti)
Newsgroups: alt.recovery
Subject: Re: my sponsor fired me!
Date: 13 Apr 92 20:50:41 GMT
Article-I.D.: mentor.45213
Organization: Purdue University Computing Center

In article <27310019@acf5.NYU.EDU> moy@acf5.NYU.EDU (Gloria J. Moy) writes:
>
> 
>
>	My sponsor fired me last evening. I am coming up on seven years
>clean and sober, and she fired me because "she can't sponsor someone who doesn'tgot to meetings". I do go to meetings, but not all the time, or not according
>to the way she goes to meetings. I currently work six days a week, go to
>grad school two nights a week, and am really busy. I had called my sponsor
>last night to talk to her about ending our relationship as sponor/sponsee anywayas i felt it really wasn't working out very well anymore. In a way, she was 

You started out to fire her but ended up being fired?

I see an interesting switch here, and one that I noticed happening in
my head once in the past.  Three in a row in about a week; i can only
remember one at the moment, though.  There was a salesperson visiting,
about some fiction writing correspondence course.  (I'd filled out a
blank in some magazine i had read).  As I listened I realized course
wasn't worth the cost, and I started to make not-interested noises.
The Salesperson shifted tables almost instantly.  Sorta "If you aren't
willing to sacrifice time and  money, you don't want to write enough;
we wouldn't admit you to the course."  Can you believe that when he
left I felt I had been rejected instead of feeling like i had made a
responsible decision?


Wishing you the best!

Claire
From: debrag@mattys.EBay.Sun.COM (Debra Giberson)
Newsgroups: alt.recovery
Subject: Re: Day 3
Date: 17 Apr 92 18:10:23 GMT
Reply-To: debrag@mattys.EBay.Sun.COM
Organization: Sun Microsystems, Inc.
NNTP-Posting-Host: mattys.ebay.sun.com

In article 8222@lambda.msfc.nasa.gov, puckett@lambda.msfc.nasa.gov (Jim Puckett) writes:
>debrag@mattys.EBay.Sun.COM (Debra Giberson) writes:
>
>>Day 3; Still Kicking; Not Smoking
>
>>Debra
>
>
>dear Debra:
>
>Don't quit before the miracle!
>
>love and service,,
>
>jim p.
>
>-- 
>Jim Puckett    NTI    puckett@freedom.msfc.nasa.gov     
>Huntsville,AL (205)544-8457
>
>*****!Practice random kindness and senseless acts of beauty!*****


Thank you Jim!! Today is not so bad. Last Night I was at my
aftercare and thought I was going to croak. I was the only
non smoker there. It is such a difference when you aren't
smoking. You don't realize how much non smokers suffer until
you become one. While I smoked, it always smelled good to me
and tasted good to me, etc.. I always told myself I was not
going to be a hipocrit when it comes to not smoking. But it
sure is different.

Debra
From: joni@cbnewsf.cb.att.com (joni.dunlap)
Newsgroups: alt.recovery
Subject: Re: Using Dreams
Date: 14 Apr 92 16:54:50 GMT
Organization: AT&T

In article <sevhtINNcds@grapevine.EBay.Sun.COM> debrag@mattys.EBay.Sun.COM writes:
>
>How come everytime I try and quit smoking I start to have
>using dreams. I start using the dreams as an excuse not
>to quit smoking. I REALLY want to quit! Got any Input?
>
>Debra
>
>
>I know it's
>hard to admit
>that we can't
> do it alone.
>  I've been
>  there...
>and now I'm
>here to help
>in anyway
>  I can.


When I quit smoking I had dreams of using cigarettes. I looked at it as a
good sign because they were always negitive. I don't have the cigarette
dreams anymore but I still have the using dreams. I find that whenever I
am under a lot of stress I have these dreams. Why not thats how I 
rid myself of stress before. My subconcious doesn't know any better. I 
would just chalk it up to stress but I wouldn't act out. All that I know is
that I wanted to stop smoking just like I wanted to stop drinking and drugging. It only
works ifworks if you want it to work. IMHO I think you are using the dreams
as an excuse. Maybe just the realization that you are using the dreams as
an excuse to smoke will help. Hang in there and don't give up trying.

Some stuff that helped me

1. Constantally put negitive images of smoking in your head
  a. nasty nasty habit
  b. stinks
  c. Its killing me
  d. expensive
  e. smokers cough
  f. cancer
  g. heart attacks
  h. dirty
  i. people can tell you are a smoker
  j. bad breath
  k. indigestion
  l. shortness of breath
  m. On the job discrimination 
  n. Since people can smell the cigarettes on you discrimination when
     interviewing for a job.
  o. YOU HAVE A MONKEY ON YOUR BACK

2. Think of the good things that are going to happen because you quit
  a. live longer
  b. save money
    I. doctors bills
    II. cigarettes
    III. lighters
    IV. hospital bills
  c. the cough goes away
  d. don't get colds as often
  e. Probally will not die of lung cancer
  f. can walk up stairs again 
  g. can run again
  h. feel clean
  i. you don't stink ( unless you have BO he! he!)
  j. Insurance rates will go down 
  k. clean breath
  l. YOU GOT THE MONKEY OFF YOUR BACK!!!!!


Just remember to do it one day at a time.


GOOD LUCK

Joni :)
Newsgroups: alt.recovery
From: david@perle.UUCP (David L.)
Subject: One Day At A Time In Al-Anon
Organization: Perle Systems Ltd.
Date: Wed, 15 Apr 1992 16:30:01 GMT

From "ONE DAY AT A TIME IN AL-ANON", copyright 1973, by 
Al-Anon Family Group Headquarters, Inc.  Reprinted by 
permission of Al-Anon Family Group Headquarters, Inc.

----------------------------------------------------------

APRIL 15

   Are we justified in getting angry at a person in
an alcoholic fog? We are not - if we have accepted
the truth that alcoholism is a disease. Has an
outburst of temper, with accusations and re-
proaches, ever improved the situation? Hasn't 
such action on our part only increased our own
frustration?
   It is true that such explosions do give momen-
tary relief to our pent-up feelings, but once we
realize that they only make matters worse, we can
persuade ourselves to channel our forces into
making a constructive decision. Any action of
ours to COMPEL the problem drinker to do any-
thing is usually doomed to failure.

TODAY'S REMINDER

   I will pause and think before I say anything, lest my
anger turn back upon me and make my difficulties 
even greater. I will know that well-timed silence can
give me command of the situation as angry reproaches
never can.

       "Let all bitterness and wrath and anger
	and clamour and evil speaking be put
	away from you."
			(Ephesians)

       "A soft answer turneth away wrath
	but grievous words stir up anger."
			(Proverbs)


Newsgroups: alt.recovery
From: enigma@netcom.com (Enigma)
Subject: Re: my sponsor fired me!
Date: Sat, 11 Apr 92 20:49:06 GMT
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services  (408 241-9760 guest) 

In article <s7dkaINNlcf@agate.berkeley.edu> ronan@codon3 (Karen Ronan;161 GPBB;x2-0884) writes:
>In article <27310019@acf5.NYU.EDU> moy@acf5.NYU.EDU (Gloria J. Moy) writes:
>> 
>>
>>	My sponsor fired me last evening. I am coming up on seven years
>>clean and sober, and she fired me because "she can't sponsor someone who doesn'tgot to meetings". I do go to meetings, but not all the time, or not according
>>to the way she goes to meetings. I currently work six days a week, go to
>
>Someone mentioned an AA pamphlet describing what a sponsor/sponsee
>relationship was supposed to be like. Can that be posted?
>I'm seriously wondering where these "sponsors" are coming from.
>They sound totally incredibly un-together.
>

I'm wondering about this too.  I've been in recovery seven years,
and the only time I had an "official" sponsor she took the attitude
"do what I say, and no backtalk".  She didn't want to hear anything
about what I was going through, and was very brusque.  I told her
I didn't think this would work out, and about a month later she
admitted in a meeting that she had a major slip and was falling
apart.  How does one find an emotionally healthy sponsor?  It seems
like finding a needle in a haystack.

-- 
Enigma (enigma@netcom.com)
Newsgroups: alt.recovery
From: david@perle.UUCP (David L.)
Subject: One Day At A Time In Al-Anon
Organization: Perle Systems Ltd.
Date: Fri, 10 Apr 1992 12:56:20 GMT

From "ONE DAY AT A TIME IN AL-ANON", copyright 1973, by 
Al-Anon Family Group Headquarters, Inc.  Reprinted by 
permission of Al-Anon Family Group Headquarters, Inc.

----------------------------------------------------------

APRIL 10

   What am I really searching for in my life?
Interesting activities? To meet my obligations to 
my family and friends? To make myself into the
kind of person I will enjoy living with?
   I may not realize all of these ideals, but it's a 
joy to work toward them, watching myself grow,
little by little.
   One good way is to take a really searching
inventory and examine my motives. I need to
understand WHY I do what I do, and say what I
say. This will help me realize the kind of person
I really am, and give me constructive ideas for
improving what I don't like about myself.

TODAY'S REMINDER

   It is far easier to be honest with other people than
with myself. All of us are hampered to some degree by
our need to justify our actions and words. Admitting
my faults, to myself, to God and another human being,
as suggested by the Fifth of the Twelve Steps, will give
me a glimpse of the wonderful person I COULD be.

       "I will pray for self-fulfillment, and through
	conscious effort make some headway
	toward being at peace with myself,
	which is my ultimate goal,
	embracing all others."


Newsgroups: alt.recovery
From: solid@ohmeda.com (Robby Mann)
Subject: RULES????
Keywords: group
Organization: Ohmeda Monitoring Systems
Date: Tue, 7 Apr 1992 13:53:48 GMT

     If they're rotten rules?  Call a group conscience, tell them what you
think.  That is what a group conscience is for.  Groups can be just as sick
as individuals.

Rob

A real alcoholic (p. 21)
From: david@perle.UUCP (David L.)
Newsgroups: alt.recovery
Subject: One Day At A Time In Al-Anon
Date: 10 Apr 92 12:58:19 GMT
Organization: Perle Systems Ltd.

From "ONE DAY AT A TIME IN AL-ANON", copyright 1973, by 
Al-Anon Family Group Headquarters, Inc.  Reprinted by 
permission of Al-Anon Family Group Headquarters, Inc.

----------------------------------------------------------

APRIL 13

   No wonder that both AA and Al-Anon stress
the importance of living just one day at a time.
How much precious thinking time we waste
fretting over past mistakes and missed opportu-
nities! How often our depressed imaginings be-
tray us into speculating about "what's GOING to 
happen."
   Yesterdays have no value except as experience
to be used in making today and the future more
fruitful.
   It may be difficult at first to discard these
negative thinking habits. Yet it's a relief to find
we CAN unload the burdens of the past, and
anticipate, rather than dread, our tomorrows.

TODAY'S REMINDER

   A valid "regret for the past" could be awareness that
we have hurt someone. Such regrets for offenses to
others may often be healed by doing them kindnesses
whenever we are able. Regrets for missed opportuni-
ties, however, can be erased from our minds by trying
to make wiser decisions from now on.

       "I pray to be relieved of the compulsion
	to worry about the past, and that I may
	not let my pessimism paint black pictures
	of what may happen tomorrow.

       "Keep in mind that we can live only
	in the present and that all the rest of
	life is either past or uncertain."
From: jeremy@vax.oxford.ac.uk (Jeremy Martin)
Newsgroups: alt.recovery
Subject: Re: OA Abstinence, is measuring your food compulsive?
Date: 14 Apr 92 09:18:21 GMT
Organization: Oxford University VAXcluster

I joined OA after being sober in AA for nearly six years and quitting
smoking for three and a half years.

I think that the definition of abstinence in the OA sense is a personal
decision. It depends on the nature of your illness and addictions. I am
not yet a chronic case of compulsive overeating but I was rapidly heading
that way, despite having worked the steps to the best of my ability in AA.

I try to make my abstinence as loose as possible. I didn't join OA to punish 
myself. Now I try to respect my body's needs. At present I define my 
abstinence to be:
	Don't eat fast - chew my food.
	Eat three filling meals per day.
	If I am hungry between meals eat fruit.
	No chocolate, no caffeine.
This works for me but it could be lethal for somebody else!

In practice I find I rarely eat between meals, but I can if I want to. When I
eat at home I try to avoid sugar and white flour - but at somebody else's
home I relax that rule. 

I'm in the process of learning the difference between true hunger which needs
to be satisfied with food and fear of impending starvation which tells me to
eat everything in front of me like a wolf and fight for it if necessary. The
latter perception is a dysfunctional one in my case  - the former is normal. 
It still takes conscious willpower at the moment for me to make this 
distinction. For instance yesterday I was very hungry because I had taken part 
in a gruelling endurance sports event on Sunday. I ate more than usual because
my body needed more food. I recently succumbed to the starvation complex on
a brief trip to France when I was surrounded by delicious food in a tense
situation - although I didn't technically break my abstinence.

Since entering OA less than four months ago I have lost 40 pounds in weight
without undereating. My persistent gastritis has disappeared after more than
six years. My skin and hair has become far healthier. I no longer exhibit
public or private gluttony. I have become far closer to my true emotions. 
My wife feels very sorry for me that I can't eat chocolate any more. I still
get cravings for chocolate and sweets.

I have a copy of "The 12 Steps of Overeaters Anonymous". I really like this
book and reading it finally enabled me to make amends to my parents recently.
The chapter on Step 3 is particularly helpful on how to define your abstinence
and it was reading that at a meeting which brought me face to face with my
caffeine addiction.

	Thanks for reading,
			Jeremy
From: johnn@ops.Sun.COM (John Nauman)
Newsgroups: alt.recovery
Subject: This is Great!
Date: 17 Apr 92 01:43:11 GMT
Reply-To: johnn@ops.Sun.COM (John Nauman)
Organization: Sun Microsystems, Inc.
NNTP-Posting-Host: ops.ebay.sun.com

I have been reading this news group for about a month or two.
And I think it is great and has added another dimension to my recovery.
I look forward to becoming more involved in the weeks to come.

Today, I'm celebrating two years clean and sober. It was nothing like the
first year and that is for sure. It is not enough to be clean and sober
anymore. The road ahead seems narrower and what worked yesterday is not
necessarlily going to work today. I have been thinking about how more is constantly being revealed. So, I guess that will give me something to work on during year three.

Thanks again for all your input ( everybody ).

                                 John