HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: karen@athena.mit.edu (Karen E. Walrath)
Subject: Re: Cold-Weather Footgear
Organization: Massachusetts Institute of Technology
Distribution: na
Date: Sat, 10 Oct 1992 02:10:16 GMT

In article <1992Oct8.204859.17926@netcom.com> tomk@netcom.com (Thomas H. Kunich) writes:
>In article <1687A7519.MEDELMA@cms.cc.wayne.edu> MEDELMA@cms.cc.wayne.edu (Michael Edelman) writes:
>> 
>>You don't want to vent the moisture. This is an old idea, and was marketed
>>for a time by Mountain Safety Research as the Vapor Liner system (or something
>>close to that...) The idea is that the body continually produces insensible
>>perspiration to keep the surface of the skin from drying out. This carries
>>away heat, and in very cold and dry weather the skin keeps producing more
>>and more.
>
>The body feedback loop for perspiration is quite simple and is attached
>mostly to heat. You perspire in a bathtub. There is no merit in your
>belief that wet feet are warm feet.

How true.  I have some thermax socks that I could swear are plastic bags.
Even in my office, my feet are very wet and very cold.  This never happens
with cotton or wool that breaths.  I have tried lots of things and found
that my warm winter boots with wool socks over my regular socks work great.
When it is very cold (< 15F), I will put on my gore-tex socks as well.
I wear neoprene shoe covers if it is above freezing.

One thing that hasn't been mentioned here is the importance of keeping your
LEGS warm too.  If your legs are cold, the blood getting to your feet is cold
and voila, your feet aren't particularly warm.  Under 25F, I am usually wearing
capaline (sp?) longjohns under loose-fitting sweats, covered by my goretex
rain pants.

Karen Walrath
MIT
From: JForester@cup.portal.com (John - Forester)
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.misc
Subject: Sealed Hubs and the Rain
Date: Mon, 12 Oct 92 08:56:15 PDT
Organization: The Portal System (TM)

The discussion about repacking hubs, even sealed-bearing hubs, to
remove the grease that is contaminated with water or dirt suggests
strongly that the supposed reasons for buying hubs with cartridge
bearings are all wrong. The idea, so it was said, is that such hubs
are substantially maintenance-free, lubricated for life. I have never
agreed. I know Phil Wood, and many years ago I listened very
carefully to his account of his search for the grease that would
retain its anti-rust ability with the largest absorption of water.
All greases will break down with sufficient water; it's just a matter
of which lasts longest.

   The easier solution is to stick with the old-fashioned oil
lubrication. Adding oil washes out the contaminants without taking
the trouble to disassemble the hub or bottom bracket. Well-oiled
bearings last a long time. 

   Even if you have cartridge-bearing hubs, you can drill a small
hole in the shell to serve as an oil hole and use an oil-hole clip, a
wooden plug, or even a piece of duct tape, to seal it until the next
oiling. See my Effective Cycling for further information.

JForester@cup.portal.com               John Forester
                                       726 Madrone Ave
408-734-9426                           Sunnyvale CA 94086 USA
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.misc
From: karen@athena.mit.edu (Karen E. Walrath)
Subject: Re: "Loose Screws"
Organization: Massachusetts Institute of Technology
Date: Fri, 9 Oct 1992 00:11:09 GMT

In article <718455778.AA00000@urchin.fidonet.org> Chilero@f88.n106.z1.fidonet.org (Chilero) writes:
>I recently saw a message either in this area or one of the others which referred
>to a catalogcalled, I believe, "Loose Screws", or possibly "Small Parts". I
>can't seem to find this message again, and I'd really like to get that address.
Loose Screws
12225 Hwy. 66
Ashland, OR 97520
503 488 4800
Fax 503 482 0080


Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.misc
From: tomk@netcom.com (Thomas H. Kunich)
Subject: Re: Hit and Run (the results)
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services (408 241-9760 guest)
Date: Sat, 10 Oct 1992 19:58:23 GMT

In article <-204369996@hplred.HP.COM> jbrandt@hplred.HP.COM (Jobst Brandt) writes:
>Maybe it's just the people who speak out on this and maybe it's the
>times of dissension and of retribution in the world but I don't see
>that a strong desire for punishment is called for from observers who
>neither know the circumstances or are involved.  First it was the
>driver who should be locked up forever, then it was his parents for
>buying him a car and then it was the authorities who didn't fulfill
>these demands.

Though I hate to agree with you I will to a certain extent. :-)

But when you consider that for stealing a color TV you can get 12 years
in the pokey, to give this guy less than 2 years for running over a man
(certainly an accident -- and I might remind you that you were foaming
at the mouth to represent his actions as deliberate assault) BUT THEN
leaving him to die!!! smacks of inconsistancy in punishment.

The judge in this case more than practiced mercy on this villain whether
or not he was slightly 'slow'.
From: jwgst2+@pitt.edu (James W Gourgoutis)
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.misc
Subject: Re: Cold-Weather Footgear
Summary: about those bags...
Date: 7 Oct 92 18:45:38 GMT
Organization: University of Pittsburgh

In article <1992Oct7.152529.753@craycos.com> lars@craycos.com (Ron Larson) writes:
>enough to extend well into the tights, shoe, neoprene shoe cover.  The
>plastic bag keeps my foot VERY warm although it is usually soaking
>wet.  Without the plastic bags, my feet freeze.  My impression is that
>I work hard enough to generate a lot of heat in my feet and that most
>of the cooling that takes place is evaporation of sweat.  The bag stops
>the evaporation.  If I ever find it is too cold for this combination, I
	Maybe if you punched some holes in the plastic bags, they would let
SOME of the moisture evaporate, and your feet wouldn't be so wet, but they'd 
still stay warm.  I am going to try this this winter.
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
James Gourgoutis       				   
Mechanical Engineering                                O   
University of Pittsburgh                           _ /__,     
e-mail me at:  JWGST2@unixd.cis.pitt.edu          (_) /(_) 
	       or JWGST2@vms.cis.pitt.edu
Thanks!                                     "A bonafide BIKAHOLIC, and DAMN
                                             proud of it!"    
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-       
-- 
From: khe@hpfcso.FC.HP.COM (Keith Erskine)
Date: Wed, 14 Oct 1992 19:53:02 GMT
Subject: Re: Ways to alleviate wind-in-ear noise?
Organization: Hewlett-Packard, Fort Collins, CO, USA
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.misc

In rec.bicycles.misc, boone@IDA.ORG (John Boone) writes:

>>   ...John asserts headphones cause hearing damage

>    ...I deny it

>    Well, I know that I've heard of at least one study which supports my
>    original statement.  No, I'm not going to take the time right now to 
>    look for the reference - if I run across the report soon I'll post it.
>    Or if anybody has a report which corrects any misconceptions I may 
>    have, please post it.  

Studies *have* shown that people tend to play music dangerously loud
when using headphones, especially when they turn them up loud enough
to drown out background noise.  This does not mean headphones intrinsically
cause hearing damage - it is still excessive volumes for sustained
durations that causes the hearing damage.  If you leave headphones
on your head for 24 hours a day with no music playing through them
they will not damage your hearing.....OK, I'm being nitpicky, but
I have a pet peeve of people misquoting the results of studies.  

> >>I enjoy music as much as anybody, which is one reason I don't use 
> >> headphones much anymore.
> 
> >Tell this to the thousands of studio musicians and engineers who
> >use headphones (AKG studio monitor headphones, usually) 3-4 hours
> >a day.   They rely on the hearing to make a living, they would
> >know if headphones intrinsically caused hearing damage.
> 
>    Well, how do you suggest I tell these thousands of musicians and
>    engineers you talk to?  :-)

I don't know, you'll need to get them to take off their headphones
first :-)

Keith Erskine
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.misc
Subject: Can you live exclusively on energy drinks?
From: rabbi@kiwi.gen.nz (Rabbi Bajzheet)
Date: 12 Oct 92 11:21:51 GMT
Organization: Household UNIX, Auckland, New Zealand
X-Newsreader: Tin 1.1 PL4

I was wondering...                        

Is it possible to live exclusively on one type of food? I've had a look at
various energy drinks and bars... The drinks generally have no fat or protein,
so they're out, and most of the bars have very little protein or essential
vitamins, minerals etc.

I *think* PowerBars and water would keep you going indefinitey, but I'm not
sure.

Ideally, a kind of liquid, isotonic PowerBar would be best, since it would be a
single substance.

What's the composition of saline drip feeds? 

Rabbi

P.S. This isn't for any particular reason, just curious :-)
From: maarrrk@seidel.ucsb.edu (Mark Erickson)
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.misc
Subject: Re: Schwinn files for bankruptcy
Date: 9 Oct 92 16:07:49 GMT
Distribution: usa

sutton@lamar.ColoState.EDU (Rich Sutton) writes:

>I just heard this on CNN. They reported that Schwinn's market share has
>dwindled from 12% in the 70's to 7% today; and, they're saddled with debt. 
>Like so much news there were no other details.          ^^^^^^^

So they couldn't stem the tide?  Sounds like their accountants
need a brake.  Maybe they need to frame a new strategy.  Their
stock must have posted serious losses.  Or maybe I spoke too 
soon  :+) :+) :+)
From: jbrandt@hplred.HP.COM (Jobst Brandt)
Date: Fri, 9 Oct 1992 15:21:41 GMT
Subject: Re: Hit and Run (the results)
Organization: Hewlett Packard Labs, Palo Alto CA
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.misc

Maybe it's just the people who speak out on this and maybe it's the
times of dissension and of retribution in the world but I don't see
that a strong desire for punishment is called for from observers who
neither know the circumstances or are involved.  First it was the
driver who should be locked up forever, then it was his parents for
buying him a car and then it was the authorities who didn't fulfill
these demands.

I also do not know the circumstances but the decision was made by a
judge, not a jury and there were no reports of outrage by those
participating in the trial so I draw other conclusions.  First, I
believe Wray may have bought his car with his own earnings. Second,
because he is not playing with a full deck doesn't automatically mean
that he should be grounded for life.  It seems to me that, as was
pointed out in the report, the jerks that like to get a ride in his
car are not legally culpable although they may be the true criminals.
It might be best to focus contempt on them although this doesn't do
any good (as does the rest of finger pointing).

It seems to me that ganging up on unrepresented persons on this forum
is an unhealthy exercise because it rings of elitism and builds up an
unwarranted air of righteousness about bicycling in contrast to other
modes of transportation, especially the car.  In fact, most of us,
whether we drive a car or not, at least ride in them and rely heavily
on services that cars and trucks perform for us.

It rings of so much "head in the sand" snobbery.

jobst_brandt@hplabs.hp.com
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.misc
From: bgeer@javelin.sim.es.com (Bob Geer)
Subject: Re: Painting bicycles
Reply-To: bgeer@javelin.sim.es.com
Organization: Evans & Sutherland Computer Corporation
Date: Fri, 9 Oct 1992 14:43:09 GMT

tomk@netcom.com (Thomas H. Kunich) writes:
>and spray can jobs generally are ugly and unprofessional. Spray cans
>contain paint that is weak, sun reactive and chipping prone.

Local auto paint supply shops will mix & activate Imron & similar
paints & put them in spray cans for you.  I don't know the cost, but
it's often less than a decent framebuilder's custom paint job.
Friends with no spray painting experience have done fair to good jobs
on their bikes -- depends on how patient & demanding you are, I guess.

As for me, I'd spend the $$$ to have my friendly local framebuilder do
it, so I can get a really good pearl purple to blue to purple fade job
including the pump.  Of course, I don't have to buy baby shoes so cost
is no object.

--
From: David_Greg_Herlihy@cup.portal.com
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.misc
Subject: Boston Bicycle Memorial
Date: Sun, 11 Oct 92 08:48:25 PDT
Organization: The Portal System (TM)

You can help a non-profit committee build a memorial in Boston to
Pierre Lallement, the French inventor of the pedal buried in Boston
a century ago without due recognition.  PL built his first bike in
Paris in 1863, left for the US two years later for better opportunities.
He settled in New Haven, promoted cycling, and was awarded the world's
first bicycle patent in 1866.  Later in life he settled in Boston,
then our nation's cycling center, working for the Pope Manufacturing
Company, makers of Columbia bicycles and the last owners of his patent.

The city of Boston has named its newest bicycle path in PL's honor.
We hope to place a memorial alongside it, facing his former residence
where he died in poverty in 1891.  We will be joined by French cyclists
next year on the occasion of PL's 150th birthday.

To raise money for the memorial, we offer Lallement T-shirts (photo
front, patent back, 100% cotton, S M L XL, $15), biographical booklet 
(reprint of 1883 article with commentary, $5) and postcards (50 cents)
Write:
Lallement Memorial Committee
PO Box 15077
Boston, MA  02215
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.misc
From: koren@fc.hp.com (Steve Koren)
Subject: Re: Road bikes in the winter.
Date: Wed, 7 Oct 1992 14:39:42 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: Hewlett-Packard Fort Collins Site
X-Newsreader: Tin 1.1.3 PL5

> Well besides protecting the body, what about the bike. I've had my
> bike slip out from underneath on a patch of black ice (straight, not
> turning). Will a change in tire tread help at all (if it's possible to

Try studded tires.  I've found them to be the only way to get across
black ice.  And even with them, you can't do anything radical, such as
turn or brake.  It helps to have sharp studs, but they dull quickly from
use.

> acquire)? Are brakes affected by cold? I was biking through a driving

You can get ice buildup on your rims, and then the brakes don't work
very well.  I solve this problem by applying the brakes lightly while
riding.  In this sort of weather the loss in speed doesn't matter much,
but it tends to keep your rims clear, which does.

   - steve
From: tomk@netcom.com (Thomas H. Kunich)
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.misc
Subject: Re: Cold-Weather Footgear
Date: 8 Oct 92 20:48:59 GMT
Article-I.D.: netcom.1992Oct8.204859.17926
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services (408 241-9760 guest)

In article <1687A7519.MEDELMA@cms.cc.wayne.edu> MEDELMA@cms.cc.wayne.edu (Michael Edelman) writes:
> 
>You don't want to vent the moisture. This is an old idea, and was marketed
>for a time by Mountain Safety Research as the Vapor Liner system (or something
>close to that...) The idea is that the body continually produces insensible
>perspiration to keep the surface of the skin from drying out. This carries
>away heat, and in very cold and dry weather the skin keeps producing more
>and more.

The body feedback loop for perspiration is quite simple and is attached
mostly to heat. You perspire in a bathtub. There is no merit in your
belief that wet feet are warm feet.
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.misc
From: MEDELMA@cms.cc.wayne.edu (Michael Edelman)
Subject: Re: Cold-Weather Footgear
Organization: Wayne State University, C&IT
Date: Fri, 9 Oct 1992 11:44:25 GMT

In article <1992Oct8.204859.17926@netcom.com>
tomk@netcom.com (Thomas H. Kunich) writes:
 
>
>In article <1687A7519.MEDELMA@cms.cc.wayne.edu> MEDELMA@cms.cc.wayne.edu (Michael Edelman) writes:
>>
>>You don't want to vent the moisture. This is an old idea, and was marketed
>>for a time by Mountain Safety Research as the Vapor Liner system (or something
>>close to that...) The idea is that the body continually produces insensible
>>perspiration to keep the surface of the skin from drying out. This carries
>>away heat, and in very cold and dry weather the skin keeps producing more
>>and more.
>
>The body feedback loop for perspiration is quite simple and is attached
>mostly to heat. You perspire in a bathtub. There is no merit in your
>belief that wet feet are warm feet.
>
And yet, it works. I didn't invent it, and for that matter, I've only tried
it once or twice. Try it and let us know your results.
       --mje
From: mattc@npg-sd.SanDiegoCA.NCR.COM (Matt Courtois)
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.misc
Subject: Re: New Klein suspension system (was Allsop review)
Date: 14 Oct 92 19:48:16 GMT
Organization: NCR Corp., Network Products - San Diego

In <92956@netnews.upenn.edu> vinson@shiva.seas.upenn.edu (Jack Vinson) writes:

><1992Oct13.030908.15659@galileo.cc.rochester.edu> writes this in article wgns@troi.cc.rochester.edu (C. Wiggins)
>>        BTW:  Klein has also introduced a suspension bar/stem combo for
>>it's '93 top of the line bikes.  Suspension forks are definitely here to
>>stay, but I think that well made suspension stems can compete, and are
>>a very viable alternative for those who prefer them.  The bottom line here,
>>I guess is this:  Many people think this thing is a cheezy gimmick.  It's
>>not perfect, but it's no gimmick.  I don't know how I got along without
>>one.

  A friend let me use his Mammoth with RS Mag20 for my Mammoth Mt./
  Lake Tahoe Mt. bike vaction this summer.  The one thing that a 
  suspension stem does not offer is the increased traction.
  The suspension fork held a constant line through fast turns, this
  was also true on straight lines.  A static fork with suspension
  stem is still going to get knocked off line when going fast.

  Another advantage suspension forks have over suspension stems is 
  its ability to not lose as much speed when going
  over obstacles.  The suspension stem may take away some of the jolt 
  to the arms but it does nothing to conserve speed.

  I found that with the Mag 20 my body was taking less of a beating
  than with my static fork.  On fast downhill sections the ride 
  would have been much rougher with my static fork, and I think 
  I would have been slower with it.  I ended up staying off the
  brakes longer and going faster and faster.  When I reached the 
  same level of roughness I'll ride my static fork at, I'd 
  reach for the brakes.  I found that I rode both types of
  forks to the same level of roughness, the suspension forks
  giving more speed due to its increased tracking ability.
  I don't think this would be the case with a suspension stem
  because it does not increase tracking.

  I was just as tired after a ride with the Mag 20 fork as with
  my static fork, I just went alot faster.  If I rode at the
  same speed the Mag 20 would leave me less tired, but I'm
  not going to let the extra speed get wasted.

  Matt.
From: truesdel@ics.uci.edu (R. Scott Truesdell)
Subject: Re: Info needed on painting
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.misc
Organization: University of California, Irvine
Date: 8 Oct 92 06:38:19 GMT
Distribution: USA

In article <Bvs959.65D@usenet.ucs.indiana.edu>,
cashman@silver.ucs.indiana.edu (Geoff Cashman) wrote:

> I have a ~4/5 year old Trek 300 that I would like to repaint.
 ...
> I asked my local favorite bike shop (which also happens to be
> dealers for Trek) and they said it would cost from $120-150.

I wonder, does that $120-150 include striping the parts off the bike and
rebuilding it when the paint is dry. Depending on how 'good' the shop is,
this could account for $50-100 alone. High-end shops tend to charge more
for the disassembly and reassembly.

So, if it's, say, $75 to disassemble and reassemble the bike, then that
puts the price of the 'expensive' paint job at $75 which is very
reasonable. They have to sand down the old paint and prep the surface
before they can spray. Your looking at 2 hours MINIMUM labor to prep and
paint. And then the cost of the paint. Good paint (e.g. linear polyurathane
(e.g. Imron)) is going to cost a lot more than standard auto paint.

I doubt the shop will do the painting -- they'll take it to someplace
fairly local that specializes in painting. Maybe even an auto body shop.
Around Southern California, if you take the disassembled frame around to
various paint shops yourself you'll get a quote of $70-200 depending on the
quality and complexity of the paint.

And so it goes...

  --scott
From: MEDELMA@cms.cc.wayne.edu (Michael Edelman)
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.misc
Subject: Re: Cold-Weather Footgear
Date: 8 Oct 92 12:19:36 GMT
Organization: Wayne State University, C&IT

In article <7003@blue.cis.pitt.edu.UUCP>
jwgst2+@pitt.edu (James W Gourgoutis) writes:
 
>
>In article <1992Oct7.152529.753@craycos.com> lars@craycos.com (Ron Larson) writes:
>>enough to extend well into the tights, shoe, neoprene shoe cover.  The
>>plastic bag keeps my foot VERY warm although it is usually soaking
>>wet.  Without the plastic bags, my feet freeze.  My impression is that
>>I work hard enough to generate a lot of heat in my feet and that most
>>of the cooling that takes place is evaporation of sweat.  The bag stops
>>the evaporation.  If I ever find it is too cold for this combination, I
>        Maybe if you punched some holes in the plastic bags, they would let
>SOME of the moisture evaporate, and your feet wouldn't be so wet, but they'd
>still stay warm.  I am going to try this this winter.
 
You don't want to vent the moisture. This is an old idea, and was marketed
for a time by Mountain Safety Research as the Vapor Liner system (or something
close to that...) The idea is that the body continually produces insensible
perspiration to keep the surface of the skin from drying out. This carries
away heat, and in very cold and dry weather the skin keeps producing more
and more.
 
Ideally, you want a non-permeable layer right next to the skin, a layer
of insulation, and another non-permeable layer as a windbreak.
 
This is the reason the US Army Micky Mouse boots and Korea Boots work so
well. They have a rubber layer, an air or felt layer, and another
rubber layer. Once the layer next to the skin saturates the skin stops
producing insensible perspiration. It feels clammy at first, but you
stay warm.
 
    --mike
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.misc
From: bilbo@bisco.kodak.com (Charles Tryon)
Subject: Re: Cold-Weather Footgear
Organization: Eastman Kodak Company; Rochester, NY
Distribution: na
Date: Sat, 17 Oct 1992 01:58:39 GMT


  (...Lots of discussion on vapor barriers...)

  I thought the idea of a vapor barrier was to keep the insulating layer
  dry.  The problem with insulation, both on your body and in your house,
  is that the warm, moist air gets into the insulation layer, cools as it
  goes through, and condenses the water out.  This, of course, destroys
  the insulating property of whatever you are using.  If you can prevent
  the moisture from your feet from getting into your socks (i.e., bag next
  to skin), and moisture from outside (waterproof cover of some sort),
  then your feet will be happy and warm.

  I use (from inside to outside) a sock, a bag, another sock or two, and
  regular cycling shoes.  Seems to work down to about 0-5F (~ -15C), at
  least for a 30 minute commute.




--
Chuck Tryon
    work: bilbo@bisco.kodak.com                          B. Baggins
    home: bilbo@Bah.Rochester.NY.US                      At Your Service
 ______________________________________________________________________
   Experience is what you get when you were expecting something else.
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.misc