From: gorski@pslu1.psl.wisc.edu (Tom Gorski)
Subject: Re: Help with causes of astringency
Organization: Physical Sciences Lab, University of Wisconsin
Date: Fri, 20 Nov 92 20:51:07 GMT

In article <1992Nov20.144935.19211@brtph560.bnr.ca> bcronk@bnr.ca (Bryan Cronk) writes:
>
>I'm a relatively new brewer and have just made the move to doing partial
>mashes.  I decided I would do a couple of simple ales to get experience
>with mashes, and after my second batch, I think I need a little help in
>assessing what's gone wrong.

[...skipping to second batch...]

>So, now we come to the second batch...
>
>2 1/2 lbs Pale Ale malt
>1/2 lb 80L Crystal
>1/2 lb 40L Crystal
>1 1/4 lb Munton & Fison light DME
>3.3 lb light extract syrup
>1 oz Cascade (5.0 % alpha) boil - 60 mins
>1 oz Fuggles (5.1 % alpha) boil - 30 mins
>1 oz Fuggles - finish
>1 tsp irish moss
>2 pkg EDME yeast
>
>Same mashing specifications

[...]

>Second, I tasted some at bottling time, and from everything I've read,
>this beer has a definate astringency to it.  According to Miller, this 
>is probably caused by:
>
>1) Letting Hops sit too long in hot wort.
    ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Likely cause, IMHO, but not from the finishing hops as you suggest.
First of all, you have over 12.5 AAUs of hops listed above, which
is a hefty portion to begin with.

Beyond that, there's lots to consider:

  Were you using leaf or pelletized hops?  Due to their pulverized
  nature, pelletized hops require less time in the boil to achieve
  isomerization.  Miller says half the time, approximately.

  How did you cool your wort?  Those "cooking" times for hops assume
  fairly rapid chilling times from the boil, say 20 minutes tops.

  What's the sulfate ion level in your water.  High levels of sulfate,
  especially with high hop rates, can lead to a dry astringent taste.
  I learned that myself--the hard way.

>2) High PH in sparge water.  On the recommendation of my brew shop, I have 
>been using Lactic acid (17%) to adjust my sparge water.  I thought that if
>anything, my sparge PH was too LOW.  Those darn PH papers are not really
>precise, but I thought that I may have put too much lactic acid in.  Is
>this also a possible cause of astringency?

Dunno.

>Finally, compared to the Whitbred and Vierka yeasts I have used in the past,
>the EDME didn't seem to clear as well in the secondary, but I went ahead
>and bottled anyway since I was under time constraints.  Could yeast in
>suspension give the same type of taste characteristics as astringency?

Well, along with the yeast in suspension are lots of bitter hop
resins, which can defintely add to astringency.  Some cold storage
time should help this beer clear and smooth out.

>Any help would be appreciated.  It seems that with each new batch, I
>learn one thing and mess up another.  Hopefully I won't have to make 
>a mistake on every single batch I brew.

Yeah, but that's half the fun!  (This coming from the guy who
inadvertently over-acidified his sparge water with latic acid, and
turned six hours of mashing and boiling work into a veritable desert
for yeast and bacteria alike!)

Seriously, for each mistake I make, I'm greatful for the fact that
there goes one more that I wont have to make again!

>
>Cheers, Bryan
>
>

Good luck and happy brewing.

--Tom G.
Newsgroups: rec.crafts.brewing