From: jmc@SAIL.Stanford.EDU (John McCarthy)
Subject: Re: World Culture and Western Culture
Reply-To: jmc@cs.Stanford.EDU
Organization: Computer Science Department, Stanford University
Date: 7 Oct 92 23:17:04

In article <1992Oct6.161214.16113@exu.ericsson.se> exunikh@s08a20.com (NIKHIL TIKEKAR) writes:


   jmc@SAIL.Stanford.EDU (John McCarthy) writes:


   >There is one test for cultures as a whole, and this is migration.
   >The country toward which people migrate need not be superior in
   >all respects, since disadvantages may be counterbalanced by
   >advantages.  One should note that all kinds of people migrate
   >to America.  It would be interesting to know what kind of people
   >form the largest group of emigrants from America.  There were
   >some people avoiding the Vietnam War draft, but I don't count
   >that.  Anyway most of them returned.  The best known emigration
   >from America was of literary people, but that seems to have
   >ended around WWII.

   There are lot of reasons for migration eg.

   * Economic opportunity
   * Material convniences
   * Frontier spirit (people have migrated to uninhanbited (no culture) places)
   * Existence of open spaces/ land
   * Boredom (and yearning for DIFFERENT)
   * Climate
   * hope (without knowing anything about the new palce)
   * Fertile land

   Now unless these comprise `culture', it (culture) is a rare reason for migration.

   Also, its a function of time. There were many invasions/migrations towards the
   indian sub-continent over 3000-5000 years.
   Now unless you believe in supremacy of one of the `invaders', the
   so called `aryans', you would have to agree (according to your theory) that
   it (non-homogeneous sub-continent) was the `superior' culture of that time 
   (non-western?)!

   So  what do we conclude ?

      (1) The above mentioned reasons `make up' culture
       OR
      (2) Different cultures were `superior' at different times
       OR
      (3) Some combination 
       OR
      (4) Inconsistency

   May I ask: (1) What was the motivation for starting this thread ?
	      (2) Have you changed/refined your opinions since ?
	      (3) Do you still believe in `superiority' of a culture ?

   - nikhil tikekar

I include the economic system in culture, and by migration I was
referring to today's kind of migration where people join other
societies and not to conquest or ethnic cleansing.

Answers to Tikekar's questions:

1. I wanted to get my ideas commented on.  I succeeded in this.

2. I have refined my opinions and will express my somewhat revised
views in another long post when I get around to it.

3. Overall superiority can exist, but what is more interesting
is comparison of specific institutions of culture and civilization.
I think it is still correct to think about them in terms of
discoveries and inventions that are transplantable from their
society of origins to other societies.

Someone remarked in one sentence that I had neglected to give Gandhi
credit for his development of non-violent resistance.  He was right;
I had neglected it.
--
John McCarthy, Computer Science Department, Stanford, CA 94305
*
He who refuses to do arithmetic is doomed to talk nonsense.

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