HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: paulh@tekcae.cax.tek.com (Paul Hammer)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: Shooting Ranges (Portland/Beaverton)
Date: 4 Sep 92 23:44:27 GMT
Article-I.D.: tekcae.1062
Organization: Tektronix, Inc., Beaverton,  OR.


#  Just wondering if anyone in the Portland/Beaverton area could recommend 
#  a good shooting range to use.  Do any local ranges have 200 yard benches?

Tri County Gun Club

Located in Tualatin, just south of Portland/Beaverton

$100 initiation
$ 80 yearly dues

100 yd "plinking"
200 yd
600 yd
(all above with covered bench area)
Black powder
Trap/Skeet shotgun (lit for night shooting)
25yd/50yd pistol
Practial pistol/shotgun
Pistol/rifle silhouette
Indoor .22

Decent clubhouse  (kitchen, meeting room, restrooms, targets for sale)

-rickf
From: erudnick@pica.army.mil (FSAC-SID)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Ruger Packaging
Date: 11 Sep 92 02:51:14 GMT


A friend recently acquired a Ruger P-85 Mk II. He didn't know any better :)

Despite myself, I found the package quite pleasing:

1. The pistol came packed in a blow-molded plastic box, with provision
for a lock. Molded into the lid of the box on the inside were words to
the effect that the pistol came packed with safety instructions and if
missing write. I guess this is about the same as those silly stickers
Glock sent me.

2, A lock with two keys was provided in the box, both lock and key being
stamped with the Ruger name.

3. Documents included:

     a. The usual unreadable manual :)

     b. A postcard good for a free issue of one of the NRA magazines

     c. A Blackhawk/Single Six upgrade leaflet (!)

     d. A Firearms Civil Rights Legal Defense Fund pamphlet - good show!

4. Interesting tidbits from the manual:

     a. "This pistol complies with the requirements of the National
Institute of Justice Standard 0112.00". Can someone elaborate?

     b. "No 9 x 19mm ammunition manufactured in accordance with NATO, U.S.,
SAAMI, or CIP standards is known to be beyond the design limits or known
not to function in this pistol." I guess it's safe with the good stuff :)
What's "CIP"?

5. Two magazines came with the piece, as well as a magazine loader, another
nice feature. However, the magazines have affixed to them fluorescent
orange warning labels. They appear to be paper, and would not last long
upon exposure to cleaning solvents - an obvious design deficiency which
I will bring to the attention of Ruger immediately :)

6. The piece itself came in a plastic bag with a small sheet of VCI
paper. At this point it was a case of old wine in new barrels: same
bulky P85 as the one I handled 4 years ago, same hard-to-manipulate
safety, same rough DA and creepy SA triggers. Sigh. 


Ed Rudnicki     erudnick@pica.army.mil     All disclaimers apply
Protect the Second Amendment - boycott Ruger products
"That's not true," Bill hissed to his lawyer. "The facts are-"
"Don't worry about facts, Bill, no one else here does. Facts can't
alter this case."       -"Bill the Galactic Hero" Harry Harrison
From: fist@iscp.Bellcore.COM (Richard Pierson)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: Why a sawed-off shotgun?
Date: 9 Sep 92 21:27:53 GMT
Organization: Bell Communications Research (Bellcore)

The M-60 always came in a short barrel version, its just
that the army never got any, Marine's and Navy have both.
-- 
##########################################################
There are only two types of ships in the NAVY; SUBMARINES 
                 and TARGETS !!!
#1/XS1100LH	#2/10/10/92
Richard Pierson E06584 vnet: [908] 699-6063
Internet: fist@iscp.belcore.com,|| UUNET:uunet!bcr!fist  
#include <std.disclaimer> My opinions are my own!!!
I DONT CARE IF I SOUND CONFUSED, I KNOW WHAT I MEAN !!!
From: meyers@rtp.dg.com (Bill Meyers)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: NRA/SAF "MLDA" Phone Service
Date: 4 Sep 92 23:44:39 GMT
Organization: Data General Corporation, RTP, NC.

"Members Long Distance Advantage" is an odd name for a phone company,
but that's what they do:  buy bulk long-distance service (currently
from Sprint, sez the nice lady at 800/435-6832), and sell it to their
own customers in smaller units.  What's different is MLDA's customers
are various affinity groups, and your affinity group gets a piece of
the profits.  I'm not an MLDA customer (yet), and in my case it looks
like Sprint is basically sitting on the same piece of the profits, as
my "Callers Plus points" total, until I redeem them for nifty prizes,
if I ever do.  So giving this to an affinity group wouldn't even cost
me anything I care to keep.

Both NRA and the Second Amendment Foundation (SAF) are MLDA customers.
I'm interested in signing up, probably as an NRA affiliate.  (Gifts to
SAF are tax deductible, so it would be to my advantage to make those
directly to SAF instead of through an intermediary.)  Does anyone out
there already have MLDA phone service?  Is it okay?  Does anyone know
whether NRA and/or SAF are satisfied with their end of the program?

Thanks!
From: fcrary@ucsu.Colorado.EDU (Frank Crary)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: New Hangunner: Summary
Date: 14 Sep 92 14:23:38 GMT
Organization: University of Colorado, Boulder

In article <1992Sep13.085206.9470@henson.cc.wwu.edu> n9020351@henson.cc.wwu.edu (James Douglas Del-Vecchio) writes:
#Even before I knew anything about Star, I liked all their guns by the
#feel and look.   What is 100-200 DM in American?   I wish I could find
#a Star .22 sometimes.

One DM is around 50 cents, so that's $50 to $100 (probably closer to 
$100: The Mark has been doing well recently...)

                                                Frank Crary
                                                CU Boulder
From: mws20@ccc.amdahl.com (Mark Sechrest)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: Info on Baby Eagle??
Date: 9 Sep 92 21:27:38 GMT
Organization: Amdahl Corporation, Sunnyvale CA


In some article mbehrens@barqs.amd.com (Mikael Behrens) writes:
#I believe this is the CZ-75 clone that IMI sells.  They advertise it as kind  
#of a "baby" Desert Eagle.  I think it comes as a kit that you can configure to  
#fire both 9mm and .41 Action Express.  They probably also have a version for  
#40 Smith & Wesson now.

No, I don't think so. This gun is really made by Magnum Research, and it
is really called the Baby Eagle. It was most definately not a kit.

Mark
mws20@juts.ccc.amdahl.com
From: rboudrie@wpi.WPI.EDU (Robert A. Boudrie)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: Beretta 92 problems
Date: 9 Sep 92 21:27:18 GMT
Organization: Worcester Polytechnic Institute

In article <1992Sep8.175602.14971@cbnews.cb.att.com> mld@cblpn.att.com (Michael L Denburg) writes:
#In article <EDP.92Aug31174519@roo.sneaks.kodak.com> edp@sneaks.kodak.com (Ed Pendzik -- Sun Consulting) writes:
##
##
##Fact #2: yes, there is no recall for guns without this safety.
##If there was a real problem with slides hitting shooters in the face,
##don't you think that beretta, the oldest company in the world
##(oldest company, not just oldest gun company), would recall and 
##update all the 92's just to avoid litagation?


Only if the anticipated costs of the recall were less than the
expected costs of settling claims.
From: n9020351@henson.cc.wwu.edu (James Douglas Del-Vecchio)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: Help Cleaning Brass.
Date: 14 Sep 92 22:41:30 GMT
Organization: Western Washington University

I was going to get a vibratory or tumbling cleaner, but
I just started washing them in the washer in a net bag.

Works ok.
Jim D

PS.  Don't do this if you eat your clothes or towels.  Even de-primed, 
there may be some lead styphenate residue on them.    ;-)
From: ses@hpfcls.fc.hp.com (Steve Speer)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: Rock Polishing
Date: 15 Sep 92 19:24:45 GMT

# So, who knows about both rock tumblers and brass tumblers?  I already
# have a Dillon tumbler for polishing up brass.  My wife wants to do some
# project concerning rock polishing in the fourth grade class she teaches.
# Even though my colleagues assure me I have rocks in my head, I do not 
# know much about polishing stones, etc.  So what's the scoop?  Do I already
# own what my wife needs? (My guess is not, but it would be nice to find
# out otherwise before I plunk down more cash on a different unit.)  What
# different media would I need if the Dillon *is* appropriate?  Thanks 
# much ---
# 

Sorry I didn't see this one sooner.  I am both an avid hunter and rockhound.
The answer is yes, a vibratory polisher works as well as a tumbler does.
Most folks these days are going to the vibrating polishers because they
wear the rock more evenly than a tumbler.  If I put something shaped like a
heart in a vibrating polisher, it comes out looking like a polished heart, you
never know what it will come out like in a tumbler.  You need different media
though, and your bowl has to be water tight.  You will go through several
stages of grit (4 are usually enough).  90 wt., 220 wt, 600 and polish.
Each is put in the vibrator with enough water to make a soupy mud and the
thouroughly cleaned rock.  It doesn't take that much grit, just a few ounces.
You can usually find the grit at hobby shops.

	-Steve

P.S. As for the time involved, any rock takes a while regardless of the polisher
     you choose.  It may be true that a tumbler would wear down very rough
     lumps of rock to smooth lumps faster than a vibrator would.
From: rboudrie@chpc.org (Rob Boudrie)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: Ring as hand gun safety?
Date: 15 Sep 92 19:24:53 GMT
Organization: Center For High Perf. Computing of WPI; Marlboro Ma

#There was only one person doing the modification (M. Ayoob's brother-in-
#law?) and he doesn't any more.  I've heard he's willing to license the
#technology, if anyone's interested.

Ricky DeVoid
Tarnhelm Supply
67 1/2 Rumford St
Concord, NH
From: kknox@logdis1.hq.aflc.af.mil (Kevin P. Knox)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Baretta 92
Date: 10 Sep 92 12:28:29 GMT

In article <1992Sep8.175602.14971@cbnews.cb.att.com> mld@cblpn.att.com (Michael L Denburg) writes:
#In article <EDP.92Aug31174519@roo.sneaks.kodak.com> edp@sneaks.kodak.com (Ed Pendzik -- Sun Consulting) writes:
##
##
##Fact #2: yes, there is no recall for guns without this safety.
##If there was a real problem with slides hitting shooters in the face,
##don't you think that beretta, the oldest company in the world
##(oldest company, not just oldest gun company), would recall and
##update all the 92's just to avoid litagation?

About  a year and one half ago,  I was working in the "cop shop"  (Security
Police  Headquarters  building) here at Wright Patterson AFB and this  same
subject came up.   There were about five Air Force SPs who were in the room
at  the  time and they all agreed that they would rather have  a  different
sidearm  other than the 92.   Three of them knew other AF cops who had been
injured  by the slides coming off and the other two knew somebody who  told
them second hand.   They told me that... "There are SPs who shoot and those
who don't.   Those who don't shoot are ignorant of the problem,  but  those
who do shoot are afraid of the damned thing!"

I thought I would pass this on as it is straight from the horse's mouth (so 
to speak - i.e. - military cops).
From: cbl@uihepa.hep.uiuc.edu (Chris Luchini)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: Guns for sale
Date: 13 Sep 92 00:11:50 GMT
Organization: High Energy Physics, University of Illinois, Urbana-Champaign

In article <1992Sep11.225732.19757@henson.cc.wwu.edu>, n9020351@henson.cc.wwu.edu (James Douglas Del-Vecchio) writes:
#dak@uihepa.hep.uiuc.edu (David Kardelis- I am the NRA) writes:
#
#
##	AMT Lightning 22 pistol. This is a SS copy of the RUGER MarkII. 
##	with 3 mags.			$230 + shipping
#
#
#I have one of these.  Not only is it as good as a Ruger, imo, it is
#great in that grooves for a scope come pre-cut.
#
	Dave's Lightning is, alas, slightly more accurate than mine. One
	of the reasons I bought my Lightning was that the first time out
	with Dave's gun I punched a sub 1" group @25 yards. Without
	a scope mine will do 3/4" @25 yards, his will do slightly less.

	What kind of accuracy do you S&W41/Buck Mark Target/Ruger shooters
	get with your pistols?
*1110 W. Green/Urbana IL 61801/217-333-0505/cbl@uihepa.hep.uiuc.edu 
* for sale: Springfield Armory Factory Comp, 38 Super, +3 mags. All new
* in box (never fired at all).  $650 or best offer over $600 as of Sep 30.
From: syoung@pecanpi.UUCP (Stan Young)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: Black Talon Bullets
Date: 4 Sep 92 23:44:47 GMT
Organization: Pecan Pi, Doraville, Georgia


In article <1992Sep3.005219.21697@leela.cs.orst.edu> storm@atlantis.cs.orst.edu (Mutant Wierdness) writes:

<question about Black Talon bullets from someone else deleted>
#
#I think the company that made them went out of business. You can find them 
 ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^        
#being liquidated by several mail order places. 
       ^^^^^^^^^^
<rest deleted>

The Black Talon rounds are made by Winchester.  They are not being liquidated,
they ara being introduced!  Whether they are any good or not will take some time
to determine.


-- 

Stan Young                                {emory, slammer}!pecanpi!syoung
From: reid@metis.tti.com (Reid Kneeland)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: Taurus 3-way safety (was Re: .40 s&w questions)
Date: 10 Sep 92 19:28:16 GMT
Organization: Transaction Technology Inc.

In article <weba.715429180@vipunen.hut.fi> weba@vipunen.hut.fi (Veijo P L{nsikunnas) writes:

#In <1992Aug27.204044.15320@ttinews.tti.com> reid@metis.tti.com (Reid Kneeland) writes:

##Doing the wrong thing with it will indeed render the gun unable to
##fire.

#I have a Taurus PT99 with decocker. It is one of those first ones produced,
#so it doens't have a spring to lift up the safety/decocker after the
#use of decocker. But no matter how hard I pull down the lever from safe
#to fire, it can not go straight down to decock. Well, there are a lot of
#differences with different guns of the same model...

True, but you took my response out of context.  I was responding to
someone who apparently didn't know that the Taurus safety included a
real external safety in addition to decock.  Taken in context, my
statement was correct.

(P.S. How come we all have .sigs, but no .glocks?)

=====================================================================
Reid Kneeland
reid@tti.com  (that's MISTER reid@tti.com to you!)
Transaction Technology Inc., Santa Monica, CA, USA (310) 450-9111 x2499
The opinions expressed above do not necessarily etc etc...

Never trust a man who can count to 1,023 on his fingers.
From: n9020351@henson.cc.wwu.edu (James Douglas Del-Vecchio)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: Mossberg 500 vs Rem 8
Date: 9 Sep 92 21:27:59 GMT
Organization: Western Washington University

On the Ithaca 37, doesn't the fact that the shotgun will go off as you
pump it when the trigger is held down detract from accuracy?   I would
have to try it to be sure, but it seems like having to pull the trigger
for each shot, ala Moss 500 and Rem 870, would lend itself better to 
accuracy.

Jim Del Vecchio
From: ildiko@lamar.ColoState.EDU
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: REQUEST for Texas handgun law info
Date: 12 Sep 92 13:53:17 GMT


Are silencers illegal in every country, or just the US?

[MODERATOR:  By "illegal" let us read "heavily regulated", since
of course one can legally obtain a suppressor after enough background
check, tax and administrative nonsense.....]
From: rps@hoqax.att.com (Robert P Schwendel)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Where to buy in Central NJ?
Date: 9 Sep 92 21:27:28 GMT
Organization: AT&T

Can anyone reccomend a reputable, reasonable, and hopefully,
convenient firearms dealer in the central NJ area? I live in Brick
(Ocean county) and work in Holmdel (Monmouth county) and would prefer
someplace in either area. I'm looking for a S&W 686/4" and have been
given a "cash" price of $350 by Coppola's in Brick. He's very
convenient (5 minutes) from me, but is only open part time; for
some reason that bothers me. I've also heard that there's a part-time
dealer in Howell (Solomon?) who has good prices, and works out
of his home. Again, that bothers me. Since I'm new to handgunning,
maybe this is commonplace and I can't expect everyplace to look
like Macy's :*). All of the sporting goods places have prices in the
$400 - $425 range, but are open "normal" hours. (Not that I take
alot of days off and expect to be needing ammo at 10 a.m. regularly).
I'm just bothered buying firearms, of all things, from a barn behind
someone's home or from a guy who doesn't open his doors until it's
dark out.  Any and all advice is much appreciated.

Bob
From: edsr!kjs@uunet.UU.NET (Kevin Sedota)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: blanks
Date: 9 Sep 92 03:15:57 GMT
Organization: EDS Research, Albuquerque, NM

Can anyone point me to a source on how to load blanks. The only
manual I've got is the Speer and it doesn't mention it. I know 
you need some kind of wadding but I'm not sure what it is.

 *****************************************************************************
* #include <std/disclaimers.h>      *                  ___                    *
* (load "/usr/lisp/denials.lsp")    *       / _/    / (       Kevin Sedota    *
* COPY CPYWRITE IN COPYLIB          *      /<      /   \                      *
* compile("/usr/prolog/excuses.pl").*     /  \  /_/  ___)       kjs@edsr      *
* %INCLUDE CAVEATS                  *                                         *
* Your milage may vary.             *                                         *
*          A world which requires disclaimers has too many lawyers.           *
 *****************************************************************************
From: ucla-cs!netcon.smc.edu!agood@CS.UCLA.EDU (Aaron Good)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: Bags for concealed carry
Date: 14 Sep 92 19:16:16 GMT
Organization: Santa Monica College, Santa Monica, CA

#Is anyone aware of companies that manufacture "bags" with an easy-access
#compartment for a gun?  I don't mean the readily available fanny packs, but
#something more like a soft attache case- big enough for paperwork or books.

Why not have a competent seamstress (or tailor) make something for you.
Buy an attache case, fit all of your work day junk into it and figure out
a good place for your firearm.

I my area, we have a swapmeet for HAM radio operators (TRW), and there is a 
guy who does custom cordura carrying cases for radios. He started making me 
some custom duty belt stuff and he is getting popular with my coworkers at the 
department.
From: jhg@ihlpa.att.com (John H Gustavson)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Ruger vs. S&W vs. Chevy vs. Toyota ad-nauseum
Date: 12 Sep 92 13:53:25 GMT
Organization: AT&T Bell Laboratories, Indian Hill Park, Naperville, IL.


Although I am new to this newsgroup, I am not new to Usenet so
bear with me for a moment while I set this all up.

I sense  a  'better than thou' or 'mine doesn't stink but yours does'
attitude about Ruger guns - handguns in particular.

The first handgun I ever owned  was a Ruger .22 semi-auto.

I fired thousands and thousands of rounds with it at the range and
not once did it ever misfeed or misfire.  Pretty accurate too.

I now have a P85 MKII and  have fired hundreds (cost) of rounds and never
has it misfed or misfired.  It handles quite well.  I like it.  It
seems to me that that ought to be enough.  And yes, I have fired/used
other brands of guns.  Depends on what  you want them for.

YES, you are right:   I am NO gun expert.  That's obvious.

People are  continually aplogizing for owning a Ruger or knowing someone
who bought one against the aplogetic complainer's better judgement.

Would someone please elaborate via Email (to keep net traffic in check)
on  why anything other than a Ruger is so superior ?  On why Ruger
handguns are so inferior ?

Technical discussions are welcome, but I am not an expert on any
brand of gun.  I just know from experience that if you point it
and shoot  it at a target and you hit the target consistently, without
any misfires, its a pretty good gun.  My opinion of course.

Are we talking only personal preferences here, or are we talking
real deficiencies ?

How bad or good are Ruger guns ?  Handguns and rifles ?
Are they the scourge of mankind to be avoided at any cost ?

Perhaps my perception is awry.  But the feeling I get
from comments in the newsgroup is that to own a Ruger is not in the
best interests of the critics.  If that's the case, I'm glad I own one.


						John Gustavson

[MODERATOR:  Let's keep the political Ruger bashing off-line or over
in t.p.g., please .... probably most of you have ready-responses already
edited for email that you can fire off to John offline.....]
From: jheath@fieldofdreams.npirs.purdue.edu (Jim Heath)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: Ring as hand gun safety?
Date: 14 Sep 92 19:15:56 GMT
Organization: Center for Environmental and Regulatory Information Systems, Purdue University

#From article <1992Sep13.171520.19787@cube.handheld.com>, by jmd@cube.handheld.com (Jim De Arras):
# I just heard from a friend that there exists a handgun that requires the  
# operator to wear a ring in order to fire it.  Sounds like an advantage in a  
# situation where the gun might get taken from you.  Also where there are kids in  
# the house.
#

It isn't a particular handgun.  It is a modification to revolvers
that makes it necessary to wear a magnetic ring to be able to
fire the gun.  Massad Ayoob mentioned it in some of his writings.
I think it was in "Gravest Extreme" and "The Truth About
Self-Defense" as well as several of his magazine articles.  I
have seen mention that he is related somehow to the guy who holds
the patent.

Does anyone know if this will work on stainless revolvers and
which ones it can be done to?  Has the smith who does it ever
figured out how to apply the idea to other firearms (shotguns,
rifles, self-loading pistols)? 
-- 
"Land of song, said the warrior bard,           Jim Heath
Though all the world betrays thee.
One sword, at least, thy rights shall guard, (The Minstrel Boy)
One faithful harp will praise thee."         (Thomas Moore)
From: Bjarne.Nordberg@eua.ericsson.se (Bjarne Nordberg)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: opinions sought on Beretta 89
Date: 9 Sep 92 13:08:39 GMT
Organization: Ellemtel Telecom Systems Labs, Stockholm, Sweden

Considering this semiauto .22 target pistol, I wonder if anyone has
any opinions or experiences to share. (Accurracy, reliability etc.)
How does it compare to older models (like the S&W 41) or more modern
ones with low boreline (like the Unique DES/69) ?
I am primarily interested in the pistol for the UIT target disciplines.

Thanks in advance.

-- 
Hdlsningar,
Bjarne Nordberg            x 3902 101:013
From: JCEHC%CUNYVM.BITNET@mitvma.mit.edu
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Loading for Spanish "Destroyer" Carbines
Date: 12 Sep 92 13:53:10 GMT
Organization: City University of New York/ University Computer Center


     I just purchased one of the currently imported Spanish "Destroyer"
bolt action carbines chambered for the 9mm Bayard/Bergman cartridge
(9x23).  Right now, I don't have any ammo for the rifle and thought
I might be able to make some up from .38 Super cases, which is the
same length but has a small semi-rim which could be turned off on
a lathe.  Then I thought I could simply duplicate 9mm para loadings
using my 9x19 dies.  Has anyone out there done this?

    Before you shake your head and wonder "why would anyone want a
9mm bolt action rifle" (as my best friend did) let me explain
that these little carbines are delightful, especially if you like
Mauser rifles.  They are like miniature Mausers, with a detachable
magazine that reminds one of a Marlin Camp carbine.  I believe that
if Century Arms were importing these guns chambered in 9mm para rather
than the hard to find 9mm Bayard/Bergman they would be quite popular.
Another reason for my buying it is that I am still looking for the
"perfect plinker" centerfire rifle, and maybe this is it.

Michael Gordon