HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: adolphso@mizar.usc.edu (adolphson)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: History (was Re: Snaps (no, not *that* kind, Elizabeth) (was Re: New queer terminology) (was Re: The media, again)
Date: 21 Aug 1992 15:26:17 -0700
Organization: University of Southern California, Los Angeles, CA
NNTP-Posting-Host: mizar.usc.edu

In article <71486@apple.Apple.COM> 
mattm@Apple.COM (Matthew Melmon) lists all
sorts of wonderful things he ascribes to what
he apparently thinks of as my generation:

>On the subject of generational failings, yes - 'tis true our underachievements
>are many.  No Flower Children revolutions.  No naked rampages in stagnant
>fields listing to bad rock stars.  No followers of Timothy Leary, moaning
>about the ecstasies of LSD and pot and 'shrooms.  No "Me" "Me" "Me". No
>burning the American flag (Berkeley students don't count).  No hippie-
>yuppie conversion into stock-dealing lizards bankrupting the nations
>economy as surely as it's 'social institutions' with junk bonds and bank
>fiascos.  

What you've listed here are all '60s things, with the exception of 
the hippie-yuppie conversion, which happened during your idol Ronald 
Reagan's imperium in the '80s.  I'm 36.  My generation came to 
adulthood in the mid 1970s.  My 21st birthday was in 1976 -- that
glorious year of the bicentenial, the punk explosion, and, closer
to my heart, DISCO DISCO DISCO.  Yes, there were gay discos before,
but in 1976 it suddenly seemed as if every gay bar was now a DISCO!
Shake that tambourine, Mary, I mean, Mathew!  And, of course, the
mid 70s had bathhouses, sex clubs, you name it.  Everything's so
tame these days by comparison.

Arne



Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: asuccop@milton.u.washington.edu (Annemarie Succop)
Subject: Re: New queer terminology (was Re: The media, again)
Organization: University of Washington
Date: Mon, 17 Aug 1992 07:17:14 GMT

nelson@reed.edu (Nelson Minar) writes:


>I apologize to Arnold and Jess and anyone else I might have insulted.

	a finer apology i've never seen!

	annemarie
	asuccop@u.washington.edu

>-- 
>                __
>nelson@reed.edu \/        It's a sky blue sky, the satellites are out tonight
From: black@lester.sybase.com (Christina Black])
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: Robert Bernardo (1952-1992)
Date: 21 Aug 92 01:39:47 GMT

In article <64222@cup.portal.com>, Furr@cup.portal.com (George Dalton Madison) writes:

|> Everything I can think of to say sounds hollow, trite, cliched --
|> or worst of all, condescending.  Especially in the case where
|> our art director's lover just died, I just have no idea what to
|> say -- but I'm afraid that saying nothing will send the message I
|> don't really care, which isn't right either.

Some things I've had to learn in recent years:

* There are times when saying something cliched is ok.

* One of these times is when someone dies.  No one is at their best.
Those who are grieving won't notice whether what we say is trite.  They
will notice that we say something.  If you can't find anything else, 
"I heard about <name>.  I'm so sorry." is enough.  Just say it with
feeling.

* If you need to say more, talk it out to yourself.   Say to yourself
everything you can think of to say about the person.  Even say the
things you didn't like about them.  I find that if I don't let myself
say, at least to myself, the things I didn't like, I get blocked, and
can't get to the good, true things I need to say.  If I say to myself
*everything* I think and feel, I can then edit out what's unkind and 
unnecessary before I talk to the griever.

My problem is that I get very caught in my own feelings.  I think about
a eulogy I'm trying to do, and I get caught in how *I* feel about the
loss, and have trouble getting from there to who the *other person* is,
the one who died, and what I can say about them.

-- Chris
black@sybase.com
From: anderson@macc.wisc.edu (Jess Anderson)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: Powell's Bookstore
Date: 13 Aug 92 00:13:44 GMT
Organization: Madison Academic Computing Center, UW-Madison


In article <1992Aug12.162254.9370@uoft02.utoledo.edu>
gklein@uoft02.utoledo.edu (Gary Klein, bear at heart)
writes:

>     True sign of a size queen:
>Grabbing onto something that is too big to handle!

We do not acknowledge this ever having happened to a *true*
Size Queen!

-- 
Jess Anderson <> Madison Academic Computing Center <> University of Wisconsin
Internet: anderson@macc.wisc.edu <-best, UUCP:{}!uwvax!macc.wisc.edu!anderson
NeXTmail w/attachments: anderson@yak.macc.wisc.edu  Bitnet: anderson@wiscmacc
Room 3130 <> 1210 West Dayton Street / Madison WI 53706 <> Phone 608/262-5888
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: mike@gordian.com (Michael A. Thomas)
Subject: Re: Question about non-rights laws (OR:9 CO:2)
Organization: Gordian; Costa Mesa, CA
Date: Mon, 17 Aug 1992 17:07:41 GMT

In article <1992Aug16.224618.12696@reed.edu>, nelson@reed.edu (Nelson Minar) writes:
> I have a brief memory of something in history, but I might be wrong.
> Could a more knowledgable motsser provide details? I seem to remember
> that in the 50s/60s some gay bars were being raided or shut down as
> gathering places for people who committed sodomy, but that some high
> court ruled that this harassment was a violation of the right to
> gather peacefully (which I thought was in the Bill of Rights, but I
> can't find it now). Am I making this up?

  I believe that you are thinking of the 1st amendment:

                                AMENDMENT I

   Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment  of  religion,  or
prohibiting  the  free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech,
or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to  assemble,  and  to
				     ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
petition the Government for a redress of grievances.
-- 

		Michael Thomas	(mike@gordian.com)
	"I don't think Bambi Eyes will get you that flame thrower..."  
		-- Hobbes to Calvin
		USnail: 20361 Irvine Ave Santa Ana Heights, Ca,	92707-5637
		PaBell: (714) 850-0205 (714) 850-0533 (fax)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: thaaang@cwis.unomaha.edu (John Dorrance)
Subject: Re: Metzenbaum introduces Senate bill to end military ban
Organization: University of Nebraska at Omaha
Date: Thu, 13 Aug 1992 05:06:12 GMT

hsu@sp24.csrd.uiuc.edu (William Tsun-Yuk Hsu) writes:

>joe@spdcc.com (Joseph Francis) writes:

>>let me lick the JD off your ass boy, schlurp schlurp, 

>I'm sorry, that's my JD, and he's staying where he is. Go find your own.

My first thought when reading this was 'hey! I haven't fucked Bill yet,
have I?'

--
John Dorrance    ** Disco Diva y Flamenco Chico **    thaaang@odin.unomaha.edu

		I always thought of you as my brick wall
		   Built like an angel, six feet tall.
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: jefu@nmt.edu (Jeff Putnam)
Subject: Re: Whizzzzzzz ( was Re: Introduction)
Organization: The Museum of Differential Geometry
Date: Mon, 17 Aug 1992 23:39:13 GMT

In article <l8vt7hINNfb@mizar.usc.edu> adolphso@mizar.usc.edu (adolphson) writes:
(various other attributions deleted in order to keep the ">" straight.)

>> >>   Pour regeler mon chauffage centrale.

>No problem.  But I did run to the library to check out
>_The Complete Lyrics of Cole Porter_, edited by Robert
>Kimball (Knopf, 1983).  "Find Me a Primitive Man" is
>on page 85, and there the line is printed:

>    Pour regeler mon chauffage centrale.

>So I guess I correctly remembered a misspelling.  But
>then, I never think about central heating in *English*,
>so I can't be expected to think about it in French.

Wait a minute!  In both lines we see "regeler", and I truly hope it 
is a typo as it means "refreeze" - "to refreeze my central heating"
not something I think I'd seek.  

-- 
jefu@jupiter.nmt.edu  -- Jeff Putnam, New Mexico Tech, Socorro, NM
"The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always
so sure of themselves but wiser people are full of doubts." B. Russel 

Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: twpierce@amhux1.amherst.edu (Tim Pierce)
Subject: Re: Redefining masculinity
Organization: Amherst College, Amherst MA
Date: Wed, 19 Aug 1992 17:31:04 GMT

In article <1992Aug17.181137.2755@microsoft.com> bobsarv@microsoft.com (Bob Sarver) writes:

>The dozen or so straight people who
>know I'm gay were surprised and quite hard to convince.  The uniform
>remarks I heard were:
>
>1.  "But you don't ACT gay."
>2.  "Are you sure?"
>3.  "If more gays acted like normal people, I don't think that society
>     would have such a problem with it".

This is indeed true, but is not the root cause of the problems you
perceive yourself to have.  It's yet another result of society's
ridiculous gender roles that people try so hard to fit into; rather
than questioning "WHY are men supposed to act this way?" "WHY aren't
women supposed to act like that?" you have unconditionally bitten into
the world's big bag of horseshit about "masculinity" and "femininity"
and concluded that the problem is not that society is royally fucked
up about gender, but that nelly queens SHOULDN'T BE ACTING THAT WAY.

You've already demonstrated to yourself -- I imagine -- that society's
attitude toward homosexuality is wrong, misguided, and/or
pathological.  Why do you assume that there is anything intelligent
about gender roles?

>4.  "How come [feminine gay name] has to act like that?"

(Whatever a "feminine gay name" is supposed to be, someone clue me in.
"Lance?"  "Steve?"  "Antoine?")

-- 
____ Tim Pierce                / "I don't know how much support NAMBLA
\  / twpierce@amherst.edu      /  has in the gay community."
 \/ (BITnet: TWPIERCE@AMHERST) /   -- Clayton Cramer, August 1992
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: psp@cbnewsh.cb.att.com (P.S. Powledge)
Subject: Re: Sarcasm
Organization: AT&T Bell Laboratories, Holmdel, NJ
Date: Thu, 20 Aug 1992 22:09:01 GMT


nelson@reed.edu (Nelson Minar) writes:
>Well I've already blown it once this week, so I better make sure..
>I was not serious when I called Steve a "fucking bigot". It was an
>attempt at sarcasm, poking fun at various other threads going on on
>motss right now.

What the *hell* are you babbling about, Minar?

Frankly, I think people who engage is vicious attacks and then try to back
off by claiming that they were "only kidding" are the lowest, most 
despicable forms of human life -- if that is perhaps not too grand a
label for slime like you.

Some may try to dismiss you posting as mere "bigotry," but in the final 
analysis, Nelson's posting was far more than simple bias: it was disingenous,
crypto-fascist, pro-trade protectionism, anti-love, and anti-life. In fact, 
I think I can speak for everybody here in motss when I say that this note 
represents a total negation of all that we stand for as sentient beings 
alive in this wondrous universe. I also think it was also (on at least a 
subliminal level) pro-gerbil abuse.

So listen up, Minar, and listen up good: you'd better stop your car 
filled with forensic sleight-of-hand and heed the track-crossing 
signal of rhetorical propriety before you are run over by the locomotive 
of public opinion!

Get a life, idjit!

>Nelson, who really needs to practice the bitchy queen thing.

Polly, wondering (as always) just where *she* fits in in the lesbian typology

-- 
				||| Polly Powledge
				||| Internet: P.S.Powledge@ATT.COM
				||| Uucp:     att!hrmso!psp
From: aberson@enh.nist.gov
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: RE: Gay Money and marriages in PA
Date: 18 Aug 92 21:23:38 GMT
Organization: NIST

In a previous article, buckmr@marcus.its.rpi.edu (Ron Buckmire) wrote:
>Well, this is interesting...How did they do this, if their state law says that
>homosexuals CAN NOT be adoptive parents? The law hasn't changed YET, right?

The law only mentions adoption, not foster parenting.  HRS, the state agency
overseeing such affairs, wants to see the adoption ban go also, so they
approved McCracken as a foster mother, in hopes that this will cause the
law to be repealed in the coming legislative session, or that they will
be challenged in court.  (The Florida Supreme Court would probably strike
this law down.)

       Sim Aberson   Ft. Lauderdale, FL   aberson%3328.span@sdsc.edu
"It's always Beach Party Barbie, or Malibu Barbie....  That shit does not
prepare you for the true horror of a real woman's life.  Where is Single,
Abused, Trailer-Park Barbie?"             - Roseanne Arnold
From: cbe@unlinfo.unl.edu (cbe)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: Just please shoot me : )
Date: 14 Aug 92 17:47:53 GMT
Article-I.D.: unlinfo.1992Aug14.174753.1129
Distribution: usa
Organization: University of Nebraska - Lincoln

mb33@prism.gatech.edu (Martin H. Brooks) writes:

>In article <1992Aug11.170458.28120@tandon.com>,
>   tdbear@tandon.com (Tom Barrett) inquires about queer life in:
>> 1) Boise, Idaho (HP's RISC printer controller house)

>Personally, I feel that people have a lot of control over whether or not
>they will like living in a new place.  It has a lot to do with attitude.
>Of course, even the best of attitudes don't come with a guarantee.

>--
>Martin Brooks

Right on, Martin, right on!!

Colburn Eigen                    H|u> = E|u>
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: mara@panix.com (Mara Chibnik)
Subject: Re: Redefining masculinity
Date: Fri, 21 Aug 1992 10:03:23 GMT
Organization: (getting there)

bobsarv@microsoft.com (B.S.) writes:
  >>God, you really are a whiner.  If I mispelled something, would you
  >>also jump on that?
jfh@netcom.com (Jack Hamilton) writes:
 >Maybe he does have a sense of humor after all!

Even so, it wouldn't help enough.

-- 

  Mara Chibnik
  mara@panix.com                Life is too important to be taken seriously.
From: John_Graves@cellbio.duke.edu
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Banana Republic
Summary: advertising to "gay market"
Keywords: Out, gay, clothing
Date: 18 Aug 92 18:38:06 GMT
Organization: Duke University Medical Center

Reprinted without permission from USA Today, Aug. 18, 1992, without comment.

Retailer targets gay market:  'Out' next for Banana Republic

by - Martha T. Moore

Banana Republic is joining a cautious foray by mainstream marketers into the
gay market.

The clothing company's current "Free Souls" ad campaign, appearing in Vanity
Fair, is a series of sex two-page spreads showing couples.  Five show a man and
a woman in romantic poses.  The sixth shows two men, arms intertwined.

A spokesman for Gap, Banana Republic's parent, refused to comment.  But while
fashion advertisers such as Calvin Klein have run ads with gay themes, also in
Vanity Fair, a move to target gay men by Banana Republic is significant:  The
company isn't simply a clothing designer like Klein but a mass retailer with
155 stores nationwide.

Vanity Fair Publisher Ron Galotti says the ad is open to interpretation.  "I do
not see what you're asking.  I just see two guys who are some way becoming
affectionate.  Actually, it looks like something sad.  But I don't see gay."

But Jeff Vitale, president of Overlooked Opinions, a gay-market-research firm,
says it could indeed depict a gay couple.  "It is a picture that is certainly
gay-sensitive, and gay people who see it will interpret it that way....There's
no way around it."

Banana Republic also will run ads in next month's issue of OUT, a gay magazine
that has also attracted ads from Benetton clothing and Absolut vodka.  "This is
tremendous.  From their point of view, I have a feeling this is a market they
wanted to target," says Michael Kaminer, OUT spokesman.  "For them, it's not a
political move -- it's a bottom-line decision."

Armed with statistics showing the strong spending power of the gay and lesbian
market, magazines like OUT and THE ADVOCATE have been struggling to attract
mainstream advertisers.  OUT, for instance, has banned sex ads that run in
other gay publications to allay advertisers' fears that their ad will run next
to one for phone sex.

Banana Republic's ad buy "marks a change in attitude," Vitale says.  Because
the industry employs many gay men, fashion companies may have thougth they
didn't need to advertise, he says.  "It's really the first industry that should
go after the gay market.  Dressing well and buying expensive clothes has been a
hallmark of gay men -- and gay women."

 
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: mike@gordian.com (Michael A. Thomas)
Subject: Re: Survey
Organization: Gordian; Costa Mesa, CA
Date: Tue, 18 Aug 1992 19:27:28 GMT

alt.evil,alt.pagan,soc.motss,rec.games.frp,alt.atheism,alt.religion.emacs,
						       ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
talk.religion.misc,talk.religion.newage,sci.physics

The moron doesn't even know what alt.religion.emacs is about.
Fuck Off Fundies. 
-- 

		Michael Thomas	(mike@gordian.com)
	"I don't think Bambi Eyes will get you that flame thrower..."  
		-- Hobbes to Calvin
		USnail: 20361 Irvine Ave Santa Ana Heights, Ca,	92707-5637
		PaBell: (714) 850-0205 (714) 850-0533 (fax)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: rcrice@cbnewsb.cb.att.com (roger.w.crice)
Subject: Re: Gay Republicans
Organization: AT&T
Distribution: usa
Date: Wed, 19 Aug 1992 15:09:28 GMT

Melinda writes about the TODAY show: 
>Couric hammered [the chair of the Republican Conservative
>Coalition] about 'family values' being used as a smokescreen
>for gay bashing [good for her], and he said that that was an
>insulting comment - that when he and other conservatives
>said 'family values,' they meant exactly what they said.

Each time I hear the words 'family values' I think I am that
much closer to tossing my cookies.  If the expression 'family
values' is not a euphemism for anti-gay bigotry - and lately, 
I think, the oppression of women - then could somebody please
explain it to me in partisan terms?  Saying one believes in 
family values is like saying you believe in clouds:  Who 
doesn't?  

Do these people think all of America is so stupid that they 
can't see through this?  Are they? 

Aaaarrrgh!
Roger Crice
AT&T Network Services Division
Cincinnati, Ohio
From: ry@cbnewsl.cb.att.com (ryerson.schwark)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: Discipl(in)e
Date: 14 Aug 92 20:37:45 GMT
Organization: UNIX System Laboratories, Summit, NJ

In article <1992Aug14.043546.4966@microsoft.com> georgere@microsoft.com (George V. Reilly) writes:
>
>Er, Grandmama, I'm not sure how I pented of my evil the
>last time, so I don't think I can do it again.  Please,
>please, show me how, as a special treat.

Don't worry, my *WICKED* *BOY*.  You will repent of your *EVIL* in loud
exclamations of *JOY* to the *LORD*.

KKruella
ry@usl.com
From: dblakele@acpub.duke.edu (Dean Blakeley MD)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: Responses to people dying
Date: 22 Aug 92 04:20:53 GMT
Organization: Duke University; Durham, N.C.


In article <4933@calmasd.Prime.COM> wlp@calmasd.Prime.COM
(Walt Peterson) writes:

>I have lost three friends over the last 12 months to this epidemic,

I've lost many people who I knew and didn't know when I was a resident
at Ohio State in internal medicine.  I was always quietly making sure
that lover's weren't excluded from key decisions and were allowed to
be there if we decided that it was time to stop rescucitation.  I
daily walked through the 3D Clinic and saw the hollow looks in their
eyes when I went to my adjoining clinic.  I had to reprimand a surgeon
or two when I was seeing a gay patient before clearing them for surgery
knowing all of the homophobic thoughts that go through surgeons heads.

I've got three people that I'll be certainly wearing ribbons for in the
next three months which were in my primary care practice and who took
an enormous amount of time and patience to take care of.  It's hard
work, but losing an electronic personality like Rob is also difficult
because one could look truly into the spirit of an individual when 
you only knew them by their words.

>In any event, I'll always remember Rob and Randy and all the others
>whether there is a memorial event or not.  I'll remember them and miss
>them.

I guess this has been a bit of a double whammy.  I'd read Rob's postings
when I first got net access, but I was more busy with the NeXT groups
than anything else.  Rob was always insightful and touched me in ways
that I didn't understand yet.  (Pre-therapy)

Anyway, now I find that Randy is gone as well whichis even more saddening
because I actually took care of he and his lover Gary on a seemingly
regular basis whenever they were in the hospital.  I was Randy's intern
that ordered up all of that nasty chemotherapy back in 1988, and then
had to be creative in handling all of the immediate and delayed nausea.
We became a good teacher/student team, and he taught me a great deal 
about patient-physician relationships.

I think both he and Gary were very happy to see me in the Emergency 
Room if they had to come in, because they knew that there was somebody
down there who cared about them as people.

Sigh!



-- 
| Dean D Blakeley, MD            |  This ain't no party.  This ain't no disco |
| Ambulatory Care Service (11C)  |  This ain't no fooling around.             |
| Durham VA Medical Center       |  - David Byrne                             |
| Durham NC 27705                |  NeXTMail accepted                         |
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: elf@halcyon.com (Elf Sternberg)
Subject: Re: Too straight looking to be gay??? (was re: UNGAY GAY)
Originator: elf@halcyon.com
Reply-To: elf@halcyon.com (Elf Sternberg)
Organization: Pendor, UnLtd.
Date: Sat, 15 Aug 1992 22:15:16 GMT

In article <1992Aug14.172701.3835@microsoft.com>
     24.043758NAZ@auvm.america writes:

>1.  Because many of the the more feminine types would rather be masculine, 
>    but just can't seem to get the hang of it;

   Fuck you very much, Bob.  There's no trick to being masculine, with
the possible exception of testosterone overdosing and a few lessons in
Standing and Modeling.  You think it's easy being nelly?  Gods, the
cost in clothing alone must be ruinous!

>2.  Because to the feminine types, the masculine gay men are painful 
>    reminders of personal shortcomings;

   Be serious.  You're treading here on the very concept of Pride, of
pride in ourselves, in just who we are.  There's nothing painful about
"masculine" men.  There's nothing special about being butch.

>3.  Because the more feminine gays feel that if they have to go
>    through life being immediately identified as gay and ostracized
>    for it, then goddammit, so should everybody else

   You're not out, are you, Bob?  What are you hiding from?  What gives
you the right to tell people how to behave so that they can hide from
the straights?  Why should I even want to hide from the straights.  As
one of your "masculine" faggots, I have very little interest in hiding,
really, and your attempting to dictate my power-to-be is presumptious
to the point of arrogance.

>I have met many gay men, handsome, masculine, and closeted--
                                                   ^^^^^^^^
   Your clue word for the day.

>Gay, masculine men who are happy being that way are threatening to
>feminine gays.  You threaten them.  It also disturbs feminine gays
>that a masc. gay man can move 'with the straight crowd'; you have
>betrayed the fem. gays by having close straight friends.

   Leathermen like me, Bears, Queens, Nellies, Camps, Drag Queens, and
Just Plain Folk... dammit, we are all in this together.  Your
diviseness, in fact, you outright hatred of your fellow queers, makes
you the worst kind of homophobe.

   Unlike you, Bob, I'm not afraid to say "I fuck men... deal!"
Fear-filled attitudes like yours only seek to drive us underground,
where we can all play the shell game again.  Well, I'll have you know
something, Bob... I am not a f*cking friend of Dorothy's, and I don't
plan on ever being one.  

         Elf !!!
-- 
Elf Sternberg    __   |     I have looked into the abyss, and the abyss
elf@halcyon.com  \/   | has looked into me.  Neither liked what we saw.
elf@polari.online.com |                              - Brother Theodore
Newsgroups: soc.motss,soc.men,soc.women