HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.tech

David Casseres writes;

> There are industrial chains made of various plastic materials,
> which in theory would work on bicycles.  In practice they seem to
> have problems of durability and flexibility.

With uniform pedaling as one does in a TT, chain forces would allow
some other non-metallic transmission but during starting and hill
climbing peak loads far exceed what any wire/elastomer can
withstand.  If you've ever had a marginally skipping chain (due to
worn sprockets) you may recall that once you get up to speed the
problem goes away and that it is impractical to accelerate or climb.

Kurt Krueger writes:

> I'd like to see an advancement on the tire.  They get flats too
> easily, and being filled with air under pressure is just an
> accident waiting to happen.  Now I have no idea what tires should
> be replaced with; I'll leave that up to the bright engineers.

I think you'll find that the most space age devices have not yet
improved on the pneumatic tire whether that be the space shuttle of
just plain formula one race cars.  It is a mature technology.  The
bicycle, for which the pneumatic tire was invented, still has all
the reasons that Dunlop saw today to use them.  I don't see anything
coming along to change that.

> I have yet to find a comfortable saddle.  I have a Vetta gel
> saddle (racing style), and it's pretty good compared to most, but
> after awhile, it feels like a rock.

As new riders join the ranks, more effort is being made to produce
saddles for people who are unaccustomed to sitting on the
conventional bicycle saddle that serves the majority of experienced
bicyclists well.  Racers don't choose to ride their saddles because
they are uncomfortable because they ride on them for long distances.

> Shifting is still less than optimal.  I spent a lot of money going
> with STI, but it's still not perfect.  Sometimes it hesitates.

In spite of the advances, shifting a derailleur is still about the
same as it has always been except that the sprockets are closer
together and the chain pins are nearly flush now.  Grooves on the
sides of sprockets also assist in shifting but as long as the demand
for both light weight and durability rule the design, I think this
is also a mature technology.

> I'd also like to see the spelling of "derailleur" revised.  I've
> never had any problems spelling it, but I'm clearly in the
> minority, judging by the messages I read. :)

Maybe it is about time that this word as many other English words
taken directly from other languages be assimilated and not seen as
foreign.  After all if we can spell words like eight that is as
non-phonetic as any, derailleur should come easy.

jobst_brandt@hplabs.hp.com
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.tech
From: tthiel@cs.uiuc.edu (Terry Thiel)
Subject: Re: Difference between Trek 2000 and 1400 frameset
Organization: University of Illinois, Dept. of Comp. Sci., Urbana, IL
Date: Fri, 22 Jan 1993 02:07:47 GMT

arnie@col.hp.com (Arnie Berger) writes:
>     1500, and 2000 are identical. The 1400 and 1500 differ in
>     the quality of the grouppo, ie 105 vs ultegra 600. I know
>     that the 1500 and the 2000 are identical framesets. The
>     2000 is just sold as a frameset while the 1500 is sold as
>     a complete bike.

Trek no longer makes the 1500.  I think it's been two years now that they
stopped making it.
-Terry
-- 
-Terry
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.tech
From: wilde@cs.colorado.edu (Nick Wilde)
Subject: Re: WD-40 To Clean Chains???
Followup-To: rec.bicycles.tech
Organization: Just enough to get by...
Date: Wed, 27 Jan 1993 16:13:28 GMT

In article <C1IonI.Hup@cs.uiuc.edu>, tthiel@cs.uiuc.edu (Terry Thiel)
wrote:
> 
> T0FG000 <T0FG@UNB.CA> writes:
> >Basically, I apply WD-40 before every ride and anytime the chain
> >becomes wet.  Ordinary oil doesn't seem to do as good a job as the
> >spray WD-40
> >though it could be just the way I apply it.
> 
> Can't be much of a lubricant if you have to apply it before every ride.
> 
> >I am wondering what the rest of you do to lube your chain?  Any
> >other silly people applying this non-lubricant to their chain?
> >Will.
> 
> You tried one silicone lubricant and consider yourself informed enoug
> to refer to people who don't use WD-40 as "silly".  Get a life.

Geez, Terry, get a life yourself ! Read what the guy said - he was
calling himself "silly", for applying the so-called "non-lubricant"
(according to other posts) WD-40 to his chain.

Get a life, or at least some reading lessons.

-Nick
From: CTB103@psuvm.psu.edu (Chad Burkins)
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.tech
Subject: Re: Difference between Trek 2000 and 1400 frameset
Date: 21 Jan 93 18:27:16 GMT
Organization: Penn State University

In article <C17tMA.3F6@cs.uiuc.edu>, tthiel@cs.uiuc.edu (Terry Thiel) says:
>
>When was his 1400 made?  Trel changed the type of aluminum they used several
>years ago.  The newer type (Easton?) is supposed to be lightly lighter and
>stronger.  Also I remember the 2000 was a little less stiff in the rear
>triangle than the newer Trel aluminums.
>-Terry
>--
>-Terry

  I'm guessing that both bikes are '90 or '91.  I checked and both
bikes are constructed of the Easton Aluminum.  That's interesting
about the rear triangle though, maybe we'll have to experiment a bit
and see if it's true....
---
--------------------------------------------------------------------
|  Chad Thomas Burkins            \                                |
|   ctb103@psuvm.psu.edu           \     Life is uncertain,        |
|    burkins@crayola.cs.psu.edu     \     eat dessert first.       |
|     University Park, PA 16802      \                             |
--------------------------------------------------------------------
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.tech
From: yschin@ccu.umanitoba.ca (Yu-Shin Chin)
Subject: Re: Removing cranks
Organization: University of Manitoba, Canada
Date: Fri, 22 Jan 1993 17:09:51 GMT

In article <Orakel.64@sarpih.no>, Orakel@sarpih.no (Jens Kr. Kirkeb) writes:
|> How to I remove a crank without destroying anything?  The crank fits on a 
|> square, and is pressed on by tightening of a nut.  Now; to get it off, you 
|> should presumably remove the nut, and then pull the crank off.  Doing this 
|> seems to bend the (spokes?) that hold the chainrings.  Any tips anyone?


Are you using a crank puller?  I think that you need this tool unless you have the new type of crank bolt which pulls the crank out as you remove the nut from the axle.
From: mack@risc.sps.mot.com (Gregg Mack)
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.tech
Subject: Re: Locking into Time pedals
Date: 21 Jan 1993 20:34:37 -0600
Organization: Motorola (Austin,TX)
NNTP-Posting-Host: ome.sps.mot.com

<FDHEIENO@UCF1VM.BITNET> writes:

>I recently upgraded to '91 Time criterium pedals and racing shoes.  The problem
>is locking into them!  It mabe just me but I'm having a devil of a "time"
>getting a quick lock-in.  Any suggestions??  Oh, the cleats are the newer
>small style.

Don't know about the "newer small style".  I have the Time Racing pedals
with Time Racing shoes on my road bike.  They are 1.5 years old (is this
new enough?).  Anyway, here's the trick:  the pedal will normally "hang"
with the front pointing up.  Give it a gentle kick with the toe of the
shoe and then kind of slide the front cleat into the front of the pedal.
Once the shoe has been slid as far forward as possible, simply push down
while moving the heel slightly sideways.  The loud "click" is positive
feedback that you are now locked-in.

To get out, kick the heel outwards.  I find this easiest when the pedal
is at the 6 o'clock position.

-- 
Gregg Mack                  ---------- __o       __o       __o       __o
gmack@paceline.sps.mot.com  -------- _`\<,_    _`\<,_    _`\<,_    _`\<,_
Motorola RISC uProcessors   ------- (*)/ (*)  (*)/ (*)  (*)/ (*)  (*)/ (*)
Austin, Texas  USA          ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
From: jtyl@ubvmsb.cc.buffalo.edu (BJ)
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.tech
Subject: Re: Trek 6000  - chain suck - Suntour XC-LTD
Date: 22 Jan 93 21:00:00 GMT
Organization: University at Buffalo
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41

In article <C19s25.1zv@ccu.umanitoba.ca>, yschin@ccu.umanitoba.ca (Yu-Shin Chin) writes...
>Does anybody own a 1991 Trek 6000 with suntour XC-LTD components? (or know anybody who does?)
> 
>I am interested in any comments about chain suck

The most frequent culprit for chain drops is a bad chain line.  Check
to see if your chain line is okay.  A bad chain line maybe due to the
crank not being torqued down tight enough.  Another reason maybe a
misaligned frame.  Assuming that your XC-ltd components came standard
on your bike, you should definitely see if your chainwheels are too far
outboard relative to the rear cogs.  Suntour XC-ltd components are not
to blame for chain drops.  Shimano, campy, and whatever are just as likely
to drop chains on a misaligned drive train.

An insurance against dropping chain is to attach a Third Eye Chain Watcher.
Costs around $8 in bike stores.
+------------------------------------------------------------+
|               O               /^^*  *  O  ^^\              | 
|              /\,            /^    *   <|<   *^\            |
|             -\ -       /^^^^ /^^\    / \\  *   ^^\         |
|              /(*)  /^^^   /^^    ^  * \//    /^^\ ^^^\     |
|  \___Q    (*) /^^^^   /^^^   BJ Lau     \\   *   ^^\  ^\   |
|  /\ /\    ^^^ ^       jtyl@ubvms.cc.buffalo.edu     ^   ^^\|
+------------------------------------------------------------+
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.tech
From: P.Etheridge@massey.ac.nz (Phil Etheridge)
Subject: Re: Chain lubing in winter vs. spring/sum.
Followup-To: rec.bicycles.tech
Organization: SMIS, Massey University
Distribution: usa
Date: Fri, 29 Jan 93 03:36:38 GMT

emumford@nyx.cs.du.edu (Eric Mumford) wrote:
> 
> I have a paper route and use my bike every morning in snow, slush, salty 
> roads, etc.  Bad conditios.  I try to wipe everything off and keep the chain
> from rusting, but it's hard.  I would like to get suggestions on what to put
> on the chain during the winter or really cold times, as it dries out quick.
> Currently I just throw on some WD-40, but the guy in the bike shop last
> summer said that was a sin.. (maybe he meant for summer riding, I don't know)
> so he gave me this $5/can "Professional Chain Lubricant".  I know I probably
> got taken for a ride, story of my life, right?  But anyway, suggestions would
> be welcomed as to my little dilemma here.  TIA..

I think off road motorcycle lube would be best for these conditions.  Any
motorbike shop will stock some.  Just make sure you sheild your rims, tyres
 and floor when you spray it on -- it's really sticky and messy.

--
Phil Etheridge               P.Etheridge@massey.ac.nz
Macintosh Consultant         Phone: +64+6-356-9099 x8689
SMIS, Massey University      Fax:   +64+6-350-5611
Palmerston North, NZ         40*23'S 175*37'E,    GMT+13
From: iglesias@draco.acs.uci.edu (Mike Iglesias)
Subject: Re: WD-40 To Clean Chains???
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.tech
Organization: University of California, Irvine
Date: 26 Jan 93 07:06:27 GMT

In article <1993Jan24.231144.18214@jupiter.sun.csd.unb.ca> mamacdonald@mta.ca writes:
>  This is true... look all you want on the WD40 can and nowhere will you find
>the word "lubricate".

The can I have has the word "lubricate" in several places.  The can is
probably 5-7 years old, so maybe they changed it.


Mike
From: sdexter@pike.NoSubdomain.NoDomain (scott dexter)
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.tech
Subject: Re: LX DX XT XTR Confusion
Date: 21 Jan 93 19:43:07 GMT

In article <christog.727485603@sfu.ca>, christog@fraser.sfu.ca (Christopher William Goodman) writes:
|> I am confused over the differences between LX, DX, XT, and XTR
|> components; Can anyone help me out?   Thanks... Chris


There is an article in a recent (Jan?) issue of either Mountain Biking or
Mountain Bike Action  (great help, eh?)  that discusses the performance
differences between Deore LX and XTR.

Basically, save the $$$$ and buy LX.

While, I'm here--  Anyone have opinions about long vs. short cages on rear
derailluers (make a difference?) ???


Scott
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.tech
From: flip@sage.cc.purdue.edu (Phillip D. Russell)
Subject: Re: LX DX XT XTR Confusion
Organization: Purdue University Computing Center
Date: Mon, 25 Jan 1993 15:42:08 GMT

In article <#an3dhd@rpi.edu> spinaa@rpi.edu (Matt Garretson) writes:
>In article <C1An3G.2zD@mentor.cc.purdue.edu> flip@sage.cc.purdue.edu (Phillip D. Russell) writes:
>>I pissed that I can't find the cheap Exage components anymore. I made
>>the mistake of forking out the money for XT hubs just to have a
>>different part of the hub fail each winter. The original Exage hubs
>>are still in perfect condition and working great after fours years
>>of all-weather commuting.
>
>In the February issue of Bicycle Guide, they have their top $700 suspension
>mountain bikes listed, and many of them have the Exage group. Maybe these
>bikes are below your range, but the groups still seem to exist.
>

That's ok. I'm looking for individual components. Sure, I can get
Exage parts at the local bike shop, but it'd be cheaper to get some
LX out of Nashbar.

I'd prefer that Nashbar or Performance would continue to carry the
Exage parts.

>BTW, for a commuter bike, would it be better to go with cheaper exage,
>with the idea that replacements will cheap, or to go with pricier LX or
>DX with the hopes that they will last longer? 

Well, as I stated in the previous post, I'm biased against the pricier
parts because my cheaper parts have laster longer.

Flip

-- 
         __@    Phillip "Flip" Russell  | Purdue University      __@
  _ -_,_-\<,_   flip@sage.cc.purdue.edu | West Lafayette, IN  _ -\<,_
 (_)/---|/-(_)           The important things...             (_)|/-(_)
                        My bikes and my Macintosh
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.tech
From: tthiel@cs.uiuc.edu (Terry Thiel)
Subject: Re: LX DX XT XTR Confusion
Organization: University of Illinois, Dept. of Comp. Sci., Urbana, IL
Date: Fri, 22 Jan 1993 16:02:05 GMT

ilh@lcs.mit.edu (Lee Hetherington) writes:
>I'm really getting tired of your "DX is better than LX because its not
>painted and because that's what Bridgestone puts on my bicycle"
>attitude.  The other day you stated how '92 LX sucks (unqualified).
>I'm sorry, but I have '92 LX on my bicycle because that's all I could
>afford and I bought it in '92.  I think its ridiculuous that you're
>running around bashing the equipment of others, and, quite frankly,
>I'm offended.  Maybe many of us can't afford better than LX.  Maybe
>you think the price difference between DX and LX is worth it.  Maybe
>others think the price difference between XTR and XT and DX is worth

Grow up!  You obviously didn't read my posts.  I did not say that LX
sucks.  I said there are some things I don't like about the group.
I've also criticized Bridgestone as well as supported them.  As far as
price difference the DX bike I bought is the same price as alot of LX
bikes so it's not a matter of who has the most money

>you're always the first to defend/worship them.  (And, because you own
>DX, it has the ultimate price/performance tradeoff.)  You'll be happy
>to know that my wife bought a Bridgestone this fall.  But, alas, it
>only has an Exage drivetrain.  According to you, Bridgestone doesn't
>put junk on their bicycles.  According to you LX sucks.  If
>	Exage < LX <<<<<<< DX
>than what in the world is Bridgestone doing even messing with anything
>less than DX.

What I have said is that in the smae price range Bridgestone generally
has better components on their bikes than other manufacturers.
Get a grip.
-Terry
-- 
-Terry
From: rlk@underprize.think.com (Robert Krawitz)
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.tech
Subject: Gear for tall/heavy folks (was Re: Selle Italia Flite saddle)
Date: 27 Jan 93 10:06:35
Organization: Thinking Machines Corporation, Cambridge Mass., USA
Distribution: world
	<1993Jan23.151926.63085@cc.usu.edu> <1k3lpsINNa1q@overload.lbl.gov>
	<1993Jan26.132637.63214@cc.usu.edu>
NNTP-Posting-Host: underprize.think.com
In-reply-to: sl1yn@millville.declab.usu.edu's message of 26 Jan 93 13:26:36 MDT

In article <1993Jan26.132637.63214@cc.usu.edu> sl1yn@millville.declab.usu.edu (869483 Denys Larry) writes:

   In article <1k3lpsINNa1q@overload.lbl.gov>, chris@carnival.lbl.gov (Chris Moll) writes:

   |>A 150lb. friend had his Flite bottom out after a month or so of riding.
   |>So I sold mine to another, 160lb. friend :-)

     I would like to know if this was road or mountain riding, and in 
   what weather conditions.  Mine has been used for almost four thousand
   miles on the road and its still fine.  I weigh 150 lbs.

I read a lot of "This isn't rugged enough for someone weighing 175 lbs"
(or even 150, as in this case).  Given my trouble finding shoes (14/49),
and that the frame size (60 cm C-C) of my bike was the biggest
production model, I distinctly get the feeling that most of the
frame/component makers don't worry too much about us larger folk
(6'5"/230 lbs).  While the frame fits me OK, and 170 mm cranks actually
work fine for me (both were measured only slightly on the small side by
Fit Kit, and I prefer high RPM's to high pedal force), this still leaves
me wondering what other tall/heavy folks do.
--
ames >>>>>>>>>  |	Robert Krawitz <rlk@think.com>	245 First St.
bloom-beacon >  |think!rlk				Cambridge, MA  02142
harvard >>>>>>  .	Thinking Machines Corp.		(617)234-2116

Member of the League for Programming Freedom -- write lpf@uunet.uu.net
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.tech
From: aa695@Freenet.carleton.ca (Chris Pawowicz)
Subject: bent axles
Reply-To: aa695@Freenet.carleton.ca (Chris Pawowicz)
Organization: The National Capital Freenet
Date: Sun, 24 Jan 1993 16:20:07 GMT



Hi, I have a couple of mountain bikes, and the one I ride to school
every day always seems to have bent axles, in the wheels and the BB...

Of course, the bent BB accelerates the self destruction of the bearings
( my bike makes all kinds of popping grinding sounds when I pedal - 
  luckily I can't hear it in the snow )

Can anyone suggest what it is that I am doing to keep bending my axles?
I've replaced them all a number of times, I'm even using a solid rear
axle, but that is bent now too.

Chris Pawlowicz
aa695@Freenet.carleton.ca
-- 
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.tech
From: behm@ucsu.Colorado.EDU (BEHM CHRISTOPHER JOSEPH)
Subject: Re: Selle Italia Flite saddle
Organization: University of Colorado, Boulder
Date: Thu, 28 Jan 1993 00:16:13 GMT

In article <1k6l8tINNep7@overload.lbl.gov> chris@carnival.lbl.gov (Chris Moll) writes:
>
>Since saddle failure represents about the least dangerous
>or even obnoxious form of component failure you can have on a bike
>(you ride home standing), .........


	Actually when one of the rails on my saddle broke (Selle Italia Turbo
	w/ alloy rails) it made the seat more comfortable.... almost like
	a suspension seatpost!  F.Y.I, I weigh 150lbs and rode several 
	thousand miles both on and off road during the 1 1/2 year it lasted.
	I hope my Flite is more durable!

				John Mastrangelo
				ice@ntia.its.bldr.nist.gov
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.tech
From: ae505@yfn.ysu.edu (Frank Krygowski)
Subject: Re: WD-40 To Clean Chains???
Organization: Youngstown State/Youngstown Free-Net
Date: Thu, 28 Jan 1993 03:43:23 GMT


I'm one of the people who use parrafin on my chains.  It may not 
be as much work as you think.

The first time (for a new chain) I do the whole bit - pot of molten
parrafin, with some oil added, soak the chain, drain/wipe it off,
etc. and that does take time.

But for the next 5 times, at least, I just crayon the wax onto 
the warm chain as it hangs on my bike.  I use a small torch to 
warm the chain along its bottom span, rub on the wax, and heat 
it again till the wax flows in.  Wipe with a rag to get any excess
off, then backpedal and repeat.  It doesn't take me any longer than
carefully dripping on a liquid.  It keeps the chain & cogs FAR 
cleaner, and I think makes the chain last longer.

(I use a piece of sheet aluminum hung from the chainstay to protect 
the paint and tire from the torch - although the flame is tiny, 
no more than an inch long.)

I don't keep records, but I think the next molten-pot wax job 
is well over 1000 miles after the first.

PS  - I saw an article in an engineering newsletter lately (ASME?)
that claimed somebody was testing ordinary boric acid powder as
a superior alternative to molybdenum disulfide or graphite.
Better moisture resistance was one claim.  I've thought about
throwing some boric acid into the wax, but haven't tried it yet.

Frank Krygowski  ae505@yfn.ysu.edu
From: king@reasoning.com (Dick King)
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.tech
Subject: Re: Pinging noise
Date: 26 Jan 93 01:51:29 GMT
Organization: Reasoning Systems, Inc., Palo Alto, CA

In article <727984935.AA00305@f262.n620.z3.fidonet.org> ben.elliston@p1.f262.n620.z3.fidonet.org (ben elliston) writes:
>Has anyone ever worked out what that pinging noise is when your weight is over a front wheel?  It sounds like spokes shifting.
>
>Thanks.
>
>Cheers, Ben
>


Check the roughness of the front bearing.

If it's bad enough than the hub winds up as it momentarily hangs up on the axle
and then releases a millisecond later.  The noise would sound like spokes
twanging because the spokes are the only things that have enough air contact
for their noise characteristics to be heard.

This is just a guess.  However, it's an easily testable one.

-dk
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.tech
From: ezag637@chpc.utexas.edu (Steve Manifold)
Subject: Re: Selle Italia Flite saddle
Organization: The University of Texas System CHPC
Date: Thu, 28 Jan 93 15:00:05 GMT

In article <1k3lpsINNa1q@overload.lbl.gov>, chris@carnival.lbl.gov (Chris Moll) writes:
> Larry Denys writes:
> >  I think most of the people that post about bad experiences with the
> >Flite should also post how much they weigh.  Obviously light weight equip-
> >ment like the Flite is not meant for everybody.  
> >...
> >you have to realize a lot of this equipment is great for a hundred and fifty
> >pound rider, but just is not designed to last under a rider that weights
> >fify pounds more.
> 
> A 150lb. friend had his Flite bottom out after a month or so of riding.
> So I sold mine to another, 160lb. friend :-)
> 

I wonder if Selle Italia has quality control problems (or perhaps indifference).
I weigh 200 lbs and after about 4000 miles my Flite has yet to bottom out and
the leather is still in good condition (I don't ride in the rain and I use a
leather preservative).  On the other hand, I recently obtained a used Flite
that I just now noticed is bottomed out (I don't know the weight of the pre-
vious rider) and the leather is worn through at the nose of the saddle.  
Based on my experience with my original Flite, I wouldn't hesitate to buy
another if and when it wears out, since it is by far the most comfortable
saddle I've used.             

Steve

-- 
_______________________________________________________________________________
Steve Manifold                                              University of Texas 
ezag637@hermes.chpc.utexas.edu                           College of Engineering
tasc637@crovax.cem.utexas.edu                       Center for Electromechanics
From: sjm3@ns1.cc.lehigh.edu (SALEM JON MAZZAWY)
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.tech
Subject: Re: Groupsets suck!!
Date: 26 Jan 93 16:55:36 GMT
Organization: Lehigh University

>The manufacturers use different spline patterns for their cogs, so
>you can't interchange them.  Also, Shimano and SunTour each have
>more than one spline pattern.  You can't put Hyperglide cogs on a
>non-hyperglide hub.

Actually, you can.   The only difference on the hyperglide cogs is that one
spline is larger than the others and the lockring is different.   A few
modifications fixes these problems easily.
    1. File/dremel down the one widest spline on your cogs.   You can just
    trim one side but I forget which; it is easy to tell by looking.

    2. Use a standard end/smallest cog that threads on instead of the slide on
    hyperglide.

I did this for my cross bike that had an older set of 105 hubs.   It works
very well and I have had no problems.
                                                    Salem
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.tech