From: pub@riscee.pko.dec.com (Publius)
Newsgroups: talk.religion.misc
Subject: Re: Calvinism and Hell (was: *I* am THE way.)
Date: 27 Aug 92 19:02:25 GMT
Organization: Digital Equipment Corporation, Maynard MA

In article <13431@pogo.wv.tek.com> daveb@pogo.wv.tek.com (Dave Butler) writes:
>
>Thus I conclude that Calvin himself did not view Calvinism as being "crushed"
>by eternal damnation.

But Dave, what you quoted from Institutes 3.25.12 only shows how severe
it is concerning 'separation from God'.  It gives very little
indication on how Calvin interpreted "hell".  If anything, it only
shows that Calvin rejected Thomas Aquinas' literal "hell fire"
interpretation, for as Calvin said at the beginning of this section
that the torments of the wicked are FIGURATIVELY expressed by physical
things.

Regarding how Calvin interpreted "hell", the place to look is
Institutes 2.16.8-12.  In these sections, Calvin went into details
in the interpretation of the "Christ ... descended into hell" clause
of the Apostles' Creed.  It is in these sections that we can find
Calvin's thought on what "hell" is all about.  In interpreting this
clause in the Creed, Calvin first rejected Aquinas' idea that
Christ went to the nether world after His death on the cross (Calvin
came up with his own interpretation of 1 Peter 3:19 and explained
why this verse can not be used as the basis of Aquinas' idea), then
developed his notion that the 'separation from the Father' experienced
by Christ on the cross when He cried out "My God, my God, why hath thou
forsaken me?" BEFORE His death on the cross IS His descent into hell
mentioned in the Creed.  Calvin went on to explain why this
interpretation is crucial to the Substitutional Sacrifice of Christ,
and how this interpretation is supported by many passages in the
Bible.

Note that it is crucial for Calvin to interprete "hell" as the
state of separation from God, for it is with this interpretation,
not the literal "hell fire" interpretation preferred by Aquinas,
that Calvin could establish his interpretation of the "Christ ...
descended into hell" clause of the Creed, which, in tern, forms
the cornerstone of Calvin's doctrine of the Substitutional Sacrifice
of Christ, as Calvin himself said in the Institutes:

	"The point is that the Creed sets forth what Christ
	 suffered in the sight of men, and then appositely
	 speaks of that invisible and incomprehensible judgement
	 which he underwent in the sight of God in order that
	 we might know not only that Christ's body was given
	 as the price of our redemption, but that he paid a
	 greater and more excellent price in suffering in his
	 soul the terrible torments of a condemned and forsaken man."
	                                         - Institutes 2.16.10

The doctrine of the Substitutional Sacrifice of Christ stands at
the very center of Calvin's theological system.  This doctrine,
as formulated by Calvin based on the Scripture, is slightly (and
subtly) different from Luther's doctrine of "justification by faith".
To Luther, salvation is a 'reward', so to speak, from God on account
of faith.  But to Calvin, salvation is the outcome of what Christ
has ALREADY accomplished on the cross, and faith is simply the
means to receive it.  To Luther, the love and mercy of the Father
is expressed in granting us salvation on account of so simple a
requirement called 'faith'.  But to Calvin, the love and mercy of
the Father is expressed in sending the Son to the cross as our
Substitute.  Luther's theological system does not really require
that Christ be our true Substitute, but Calvin's does.

According to Calvin's interpretation of the Scripture, for Christ
to be our True Substitute, He had to take the penalty of Sin on
the cross on our hehalf, and this took place when He experienced
the separation from the Father as He cried out "My God, my God,
why hath thou forsaken me?" BEFORE His physical death, and this
is Calvin's interpretation of that "Christ ... descended into hell"
clause in the Creed.  Such a theological system requires that "hell"
be interpreted as the state of separation from God, instead of
the literal "hell fire" portrayed in Thomas Aquinas' Summa Theologica.

>    ... when does it happen that Adam's fall irremediably involved so 
>    many peoples, together with their infant offspring, in eternal death 
>    unless because it so pleased God?
>				Calvin
>				Institutes

I couldn't find this quote in my copy of the Institutes.  Can you tell
me which section?


Regards,
-- 
For Christ and His Kingdom
-- Publius
Disclaimer: These opinions are mine, all mine, mine alone.
Newsgroups: talk.religion.misc,alt.atheism