From: danwell@IASTATE.EDU (Daniel A Ashlock)
Subject: Re: Brain / Computer
Reply-To: danwell@IASTATE.EDU (Daniel A Ashlock)
Organization: Iowa State University
Date: Thu, 23 Jul 1992 15:18:09 GMT

In article <1992Jul23.071622.10675@Informatik.TU-Muenchen.DE>,
erlebach@Informatik.TU-Muenchen.DE (Thomas Erlebach) writes:

                      [deletion of personal context]
> Now let's make the following thought-experiment:
>  - Assume that I would know everything about the human brain.
>  - Let me have a computer with enough memory and being fast enough
>    to simulate a model of the human brain in realtime (i.e. the computer
>    doesn't work slower than the human brain).
>  - Now assume I had written a program for this computer which performs
>    this simulation.
>  - Finally let me be able to get all data about a certain human brain,
>    for example my own, feed this data into my computer and start the
>    program.
> 
> So far, so good. What will happen ? What is the difference between
> what goes on in my brain and what goes on in the computer-simulated
> brain ? Is there any real difference ?

   Yes, the computer is not connected to your endrocrine system.  Thousands
of other simillar differences occur to me.  The computer isn't married to
your wife (or whatever the appropriate relationship might be).  The computer
doen't have to stop working to go to the sandbox.

 
> One point is that the simulated brain would work deterministically.

   *BZZZZZZZZ*   Why not allow it to buy random numbers from the environment?
Why not install a random number generator (a real one, e.g. a radiation decay
device) as part of the hardware.  Current physiological evidence indicates
the brain may have a random number generator in it.


> Given the state of the simulated brain at any certain moment, it
> would be possible to predict what that brain is thinking 10 years
> from then.

   *BZZZZZZZ*  Deterministic and predictable are not know to be eqivalent. 
Even the smallest randomness in the computers environment or hardware could be
amplified by a chaotic computation into utter unpredictability.

> Of course we could add some sensoric input devices to the computer,
> let's say two eye-like devices, two ear-like devices and so on.
> (This should be possible in some years or decades or whatever, it
> is just a question of technical progresss.)

   Pardon me.  Putting the compu-brain in sensory depravation will cause rapid,
wild dissimilarity between it and yourself.  Definitely give it sensors.

> Then let's add some output devices like an audio device for speech
> and some robot-hands for manipulation of the computer's environment.
> Finally let's put that whole machine into a mobile, self-supporting
> unit. (I will refer to this machine as my "clone" in the following.)
> 
> Then the computer-brain would not be deterministic anymore. O.K.,
> it would still react to a certain input in one (predictable) way.
> But since the input is not predictable (e.g. nobody can tell the
> weather 5 years from now, not due to lack of technical capabilities,
> but due to the nature of things - at least this is the way I understand
> some of the theories, e.g. quantum mechanics), it is not predictable
> what the computer-brain will think 5 years from now.
> 
> Now some questions that arise from the above:
> 
>    1. What is the difference between my clone and myself, except
>       from the way we are built ?

   That depends on your technological sophistication.  If you create it by
xeroxing yourself with a device like a Star Trek transporter we couldn't tell
you apart.  Until you specify the technology and it's limitations and
shortcomings the question is unanswerable.


>    2. Does the clone have "feelings", or something like "self-
>       consciousness" ?

   How good was your attempt at duplication?

>    3. Could anyone talking on the phone to either of us tell,
>       whether he is talking to my clone or to myself ?

   How good was your attempt at duplication?

>    4. If the clone has self-consciousness, from what moment on
>       does he have it ? If it is from the moment when I start
>       the program, does self-consciousness come into existence
>       from one second to the other, whenever a kind of intelligent
>       brain starts to work ?

   Interesting question; how on earth can we answer it?

> I'm aware that this article would fit a philosophy group rather
> well, too, but I hope that there are some t.o.-guys out there who
> are interested in this and come up with some ideas, thoughts,
> comments, criticism or whatever !

   I have a criticism: your questions are incomplete as is the knowledge base
needed to answer the question.  Thus I see no honest answer beyond "I don't
know".  Nice change from the usual t.o. stuff though.

Dan
Danwell@IASTATE.EDU