HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: agri@pa.itd.com (Howard)
Subject: Re: What REALLY happened on NewDay (spying)
Keywords: spy newday wizards af howard
Organization: Space Remote Sensing Center
Distribution: World
Date: Tue, 13 Oct 1992 23:10:22 GMT

In article <1992Oct13.090334.18639@leland.Stanford.EDU> snarflrd@leland.Stanford.EDU (NM156) writes:
>
>Sheesh... i go to LA for the weekend, come back, and the world's gone
>to hell in a handbasket...

(Portions of this post deleted for brevity)

>In article <1992Oct10.173249.4634@mnemosyne.cs.du.edu> jkale@nyx.cs.du.edu (John Kale) writes:
>   [...the rest deleted in the interest of character privacy...]

(Portions of this post deleted for brevity)

>notice that Ogion was logged on from his own computer, which was the last
>computer to log in as the poster of this article.
>i confronted him, and at first he tried to blame Howard of the A5 fame,
>then admitted to posting it because:
>----------vvvvvv
>You say, "why?"
>Ogion says, "cause there are 2 wizards on here that I trust and am amiable
>with."

Wait just one microsecond (tinysecond?)!   I resent being implicated in this 
mess in any way shape or form.

1)  I don't have a Wizard bit on Newday nor have I EVER had a bit there.
2)  Everyone there has a Mucker bit,  I use mine to test out new server prims.
3)  I HARDLY have the time to mud, or let alone spy on newbies.

IF anyone wants to accuse me of spying and then spreading "privalaged" 
information obtained thru "unethical" means,  Come type it to my face.  Better 
yet, come see me in RL.   We'll talk about it.  :*)

******************************************************************************
*                              Howard                                        *
*               Howard or Dark_Lord on most MUDS and BBSs                    *
*       Admin of AfterFive at af.itd.com 9999   128.160.2.249 9999           *
*   "An unused CPU cycle is a wasted CPU cycle.  You can't save them up!"    *
******************************************************************************
Yeah, yeah, yeah, Standard disclaimer here.  I do NOT in any way shape or form
speak for ITD, SRSC, NASA, nor any other organization.   Everything contained
in this mail are my own personal thoughts and opinions.  Flame away.
From: andrew@lamar.ColoState.EDU (Andrew Boardman)
Newsgroups: rec.games.mud.tiny
Subject: please [Re: SpaceMadness]
Date: 16 Oct 92 20:36:58 GMT
Organization: Colorado State University, Fort Collins, CO  80523


	Short and sweet:

	If you don't like the way we act of SpaceMadness, I suggest you
	don't log on there, I suggest you don't teleport to the bar, and
	if heaven forbid you should do so I suggest you don't type
	ANYTHING.

	If you do, you'll probably get killed.

	Because..... everyone gets killed on SpaceMadness.  Its a form
	of social expression.  It, like many words in the English
	language, has different meanings at different times.

	If you don't like what we're talking about, leave.

	If you don't like how we treat each other, leave.

	If you don't like how we treat other people, leave.

	If you don't like my post to this newsgroup, think I'm unfeeling
	uncaring ununderstanding and generally a very unnice person....

	Well, you're right.  And you probably shouldn't talk to me if you
	get on SpaceMadness.  There's a good chance I'll kill you for it.

	IN OTHER WORDS DON'T TAKE THIS ALL SO BLOODY SERIOUSLY.

	Geeze, people.  If you don't enjoy the company, don't enjoy the
	mud.... don't get on so you can bitch at people.  Just.  Leave.



					-- Satan
From: jmorrill@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (John M Morrill)
Subject: Re: tinyspying
Organization: The Ohio State University
Date: Mon, 12 Oct 1992 17:00:20 GMT


What server software are you using? MUSH 2.0 allows for page locks, so you can 
lock out all pages and even have a nice message sent to the pager.

Setting yourself dark is a bad idea for reasons which by now must be all
too obvious. Wizards who are often dark arouse player suspision.
(Moonchilde on NC is an exception because he has an excellent reputation for
being trustworthy)

Furthermore, if the wizards are so busy that they *often* have to hide from the
players, then I would say it is time to increase the number of wizards.

----------------------------------------------------------------
Strange problems call for strange solutions.
Newsgroups: rec.games.mud.tiny
From: kinomon@glia.biostr.washington.edu (WhiteFire)
Subject: Re: Tiny logs ... (enemy count)
Organization: University of Washington
Date: Thu, 15 Oct 1992 04:12:04 GMT

In <1992Oct14.210431.490@blaze.cs.jhu.edu> arromdee@jyusenkyou.cs.jhu.edu (Ken Arromdee) writes:
>In article <1992Oct14.181234.21793@wixer.cactus.org> rhodesia@wixer.cactus.org (Felix S. Gallo) writes:
> [Mucho deleted]

>Simple.  A number of them _are_ involved.  For instance, the person you were
>just responding to was involved.  Just because they don't append to the end
>of their article "I grepped for my character name in those logs" doesn't make
>them not involved.

I, for example, while not directly in the logs did find two people
discussing my oral sex abilities (RL, mind you) doing a grep through there.

>>Last but not
>>least, this 'enemy of every netter in this country' line is just flat out
>>dumb.  Maybe ten, twenty people were affected by these logs.  There are over
>>three million users of the usenet, most of whom are perfectly happy to ignore
>>the hell out of little game squabbles.

>It's hyperbole, of course, to say it made the anonymous poster the enemy of
>every netter in the country.  But it certainly made him the enemy of more than
>just the few dozen people named in the logs.

"Maybe ten, twenty people..." with perhaps ten, twenty friends each, who got
to see someone try cared about publicly humiliated on the net to "over three
million users". Add to that parties not directly involved, but moraly 
outraged at this invasion of privacy... and you get a rather hefty number.
From: cinnibar@netcom.com (Jeff Wood)
Subject: Re: Space Madness pins down Furries
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services  (408 241-9760 guest) 
Date: Fri, 16 Oct 1992 20:55:59 GMT

In article <YeqiqPC00WDJA:U04K@epidemic.ucc.andrew.cmu.edu> Dirque "Bigotry Personified" Shadowsword <dirque@cmu.edu> writes:
>Addendum: 
>There have been many furrylogs posted since I wrote this and it seems quite
>a few people are upset, mostly furries. They talk about illegal logging and
>lynch mobs, civil rights and the ruination of real lives, suicides etc...
>
>they've also locked and ejected a furry from their public and private areas
>cause they sent someone to SM and based on that testimony asked him to be
>toaded, posted in news about that character without asking him to even
>answer the charges, but instead in a fit of paranoia choose to exclude 
>that player because he didn't have the right friends and based on hearsay
>evidence.
>
>Where were these furries when auzzie posted the SM log? Where were the 
>complaints and high moralistic attitudes? Is this the sort of hypocritic
>fascism that runs rampant on FurryMuck? No, don't answer. I don't want to
>know.
>

Well...I've just got to say something. :)
As a 'victim' of this tinylog posting, my main complaint isn't that the
files were seen by others.  I enjoy the games and I take very seriously 
my role-playing ability especially in such touchy situations.  Hear that,
people, it's all a game to me.  But a game has rules and the poster didn't
ask me if it was all right to post those logs.  *That's* what gets me.
Anyone here who pulls a Bush and tries to switch the topic to consideration
of the characters of Furrys (Most of them are net-friends, and good ones
at that, I deny none of them) instead of trying to at least support
us fellow-computer persons is seriously missing the point.  Oh, yes, about
Furrys, they are an opinionated bunch, but looking over the last few posts,
well, guess everyone else (especially those on SM) is too. :)  Live with
it, folks.

Jeff Wood
Cinnibar
cinnibar@netcom.com
From: kinomon@glia.biostr.washington.edu (WhiteFire)
Newsgroups: rec.games.mud.tiny
Subject: Re: FurryMUCK Pins Down Space Madness? :)
Keywords: furry, random gang, etc
Date: 16 Oct 92 16:56:58 GMT
Article-I.D.: glia.kinomon.719254618
Organization: University of Washington

In <1992Oct15.175903.23797@wixer.cactus.org> claire@wixer.cactus.org (Claire Benedikt) writes:
> A lot of people don't understand the 'space madness' attitude. 

> Including me, for the most part.  But let me give it a shot --

> It isn't meant to be insulting when they say stuff like that.  I mean,
> not seriously. They're being funny.  They're amusing each other.  It's
> entertaining to cut people down:
  ------------ -- --- ------ ----

Excuse me? I would suggest serious counciling as a solution to this
anti-social behavior. I certanly would not _encorage_ nor _excuse_ it.
From: mwilson@csugrad.cs.vt.edu (Bill The Cat)
Newsgroups: rec.games.mud.tiny
Subject: Puhleaze!
Summary: This is a waste of NET TIME!
Keywords: Tinyspying,Newday,Immaturity,Etc... Etc..
Date: 14 Oct 92 16:03:27 GMT
Organization: Virginia Tech Computer Science Dept, Blacksburg, VA

In the interest in taking up my little bit of bandwidth along with the rest of
you people, I'll join the fray about spying and NewDay.  First some 
clarifications:

1) I know, JKale,Ogion, and whatever other name he is using now, personally.
2) I've been booted permantly from A MUD before.
3) I have a 'Puppet' on NewDay that *WAS* dark at times.
4) NewDay is the BEST damn MU* I've been on.
 
Ok... here we go.  NewDay as removed the ability to set an object Dark.  I feel
that this is probably the best way to prevent *spying* by users.  J Kale (and
I have to through myself into this somewhat) is MASSIVELY guilty of spying
himself!  Basically what it comes down to is that it was a *COOL* mud while
he had the ability to spy on anyone at anytime.  When it finally dawned
that he was probably being watched because of his actions, he got angry
and tried to run them down here.  (By the way, these are INMHO), J Kale
would never admit to any of this I'm sure.  Anyway, the point is, that
there is no such thing as *PRIVACY* on a muck... there are log files that at
least ONE person can get too (Site Wiz) and more often than not, other
Wizzes would have some sort of access to them.  It's part of the process in
my opinion.  If you want to talk about something that is truly Private, then
you better have access to a full UN*X account and use a talk daemon.  Short of
that, shut you trap... I don't want to hear complaining about privacy when
you know to start with that it does not exist.

Hurumph! (Put that in your kill file and smoke it!)

Mike... AKA Bill_The_Cat and Demon_Lord

-- 
+-------------+---------------------------------------------------------------+
| Mike Wilson | You can choose a ready guide in some celestial voice.         |
|   Va Tech   | If you choose not to decide, you still have made a choice.    |
|  UnderGrad  | You can choose from phantom fears, and kindness that can kill |
Newsgroups: rec.games.mud.tiny
From: rhodesia@wixer.cactus.org (Felix S. Gallo)
Subject: Re: another plug for NewDay
Followup-To: rec.games.mud.tiny
Organization: Real/Time Communications
Date: Wed, 14 Oct 92 22:31:11 GMT

In article <Bw4A9x.CpG@ais.org> jgm@ais.org (jim miller) writes:
>
>I'd like to stress that, additionally, NewDay is free of hostile dinos,
>pompous programmers, "Buchanan wannabes" (to quote a Furry), and most
>Space Madness players.
>Behold:
>
>--> world nd
>page dirque
>I don't know who dirque is.
>page rhodesia
>I don't know who rhodesia is.

YOU POSTED A LOG WITH MY NAME IN IT!  I'M SUING!  THIS IS A TRAITOROUS
MALEDICTION OF MY PRIVACY AND CIVIL RIGHTS!  I AM GOING TO COME TO YOUR
HOUSE WITH A RUSTY CROWBAR AND BEAT YOUR HEAD INTO THE PILLOW!!

>So come to NewDay, where we don't care who everybody else is sleeping with,
>but we adopted Claire anyway.

non sequitur.  Besides, jimmie, you're a hostile dino, and while you
don't *program*, per se...

>-- 
>"On a makeshift outboard canoe, Debbie sailed to New York, where she was soon
>adopted by a nice upper-middle class Protestant family, who introduced her to
>record producer Fred Zarr-- and the rest was history." -lafolle@ucscb.ucsc.edu


-- 
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Felix Sebastian Gallo                              rhodesia@wixer.cactus.org
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: feland@husc9.Harvard.EDU (Andrew Feland)
Newsgroups: rec.games.mud.tiny
Subject: <none>
Date: 7 Oct 92 21:25:06 GMT
Article-I.D.: husc3.1992Oct7.172507.16152
Distribution: world
Organization: Harvard University Science Center

Anyone know anything about a MUSE or a MUSH about Tolkein's Middle-Earth?
From: wolfe@wolves.uucp (G. Wolfe Woodbury)
Newsgroups: rec.games.mud.tiny
Subject: The TinyLog Incident
Date: 16 Oct 92 00:28:00 GMT
Reply-To: wolfe@wolves.durham.nc.us
Organization: Red Wolfe @ The Wolves Den
X-Md4-Signature: 44c22756a4ae2c59631cc8e36cef210e

FIRST:  The TinyLog Incident is one of the most blatant incidents of
violating net.ethics that I have seen for a long time.  The information
posted was obviously very personal, and not intended to bee seen by
other than the participants.  The perpetrator should be punished to the
fullest extent available to the administrators of his machine, or his
feeds.

TWO:  There needs to be a little bit of perspective here, folks.  While
there are/were some embarassing bits of information in each of those
logs,  they are merely the net.personas of the involved.  There is no
guarantee that the depicted incidents have any relation to the what
anyone would do in "real life", even if information that impinges on RL
situations was included.

THREE: "Privacy" on the net is a grossly misunderstood concept.  The
myriads of octets that flow around the net in support of e-mail, news,
file transfers, and MU*ing are private only in the sense that the effort
to collect them is so complex.  Once the octets flow out over the
internets, they have a potential for being seen in all sorts of places
that might not be expected!  If there is something that you really want
to keep private, then use mechanisims that are better suited to privacy
and that are easier to protect.

It is NOT really all that difficult to throw some machine sitting on a
network into "promiscuous listener" mode, and to use the same machine to
assemble the various streams that might be flowing past back into
something that is human viewable or storeable!   This is NOT to invoke
some paranoid fantasy, but there are *some* folks who believe that the
NSA or CIA or some OTHER governmental agencies do exactly that.
(Personally, I think there is just too much information flowing for
anyone to pay attention to more than particular circuits that have been
pre-selected as "interesting" according to some strange criteria.)

FOUR: What I did read (certainly NOT all of the shit posted) was merely
entertaining.  I've certainly not done anything on the net that I'd be
"suicidally ashamed" to  have reposted.  There is much to much posing
here for anyone's good.  Any Furry or other MU* player is bound to have
*much* more "juicy" or "damaging" information in their logs!

I, for one, have absolutely NO intention of changing what I do while
on-line (including tinysex!) as a result of this incident!  To do so
simply means that "they" have won without a shot!

				Wolfe
-- 
G. Wolfe Woodbury @ The Wolves Den, Durham NC	[This site is NOT affiliated  ]
wolfe@wolves.durham.nc.us			[with Duke University! Idiots!]
UUCP: ...!duke!wolves!wolfe      <Standard Disclaimers apply>
    Above All, we celebrate!  --Celebrate the Circle, Statement of Purpose.
Newsgroups: rec.games.mud.tiny
From: frog@netcom.com (frog)
Subject: Tinylog postings et al
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services  (408 241-9760 guest) 
Date: Wed, 14 Oct 1992 03:38:22 GMT



I think the thing that offends me most about the posting of the logs is that
the *$&%^#( posted the logs in their raw form with a lot of Real Life info that
can be, and generally is, quite personal in nature.  We all know TinySex
happens, but to include Real Life comments with it is... well, most REAL people
who are sane know what I'm talking about.

Cinnibar, I would definitely like to know the findings of your #@*%&^^$ hunt!

Oh, and if the poster is reading this.. if I find out who you really are, and
I run across you in Real Life.. you *WILL* be placed in *A LOT* of pain just
for the sheer insult you have caused all parties concerned.


*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*
*									      *
*  frog   frog@netcom.netcom.com  \---------\  /---------/ "They say the sea  *
*  			           \***** ***\/*   * ***/   is cold, but the  *
*  a.k.a. Nightwind - Beholder of   \**     **** *  ***/    sea contains the  *
*  		   the Black Rose    \_____*  ** _____/ hottest blood of all, *
*					   \    /	and the wildest, the  *
*  "Kneeling on the parquet,        	   |    |	most urgent..."       *
*   whatever has gone wrong?		  /      \   	D.H. Lawrence	      *
*   The fear of feeling hopelessness, _/\_/\_/\_/\_/\_			      *
*   I don't want to belong!"			     "In the deepest hour of  *
*     Pet Shop Boys -	 			    the darkest night, lonely *
*   This must be the place I waited years to leave       tears will fall."    *
*							   Cynthia Proff      *
*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*

Newsgroups: rec.games.mud.tiny
From: psyco4@jane.uh.edu
Subject: Re: Tinylog postings et al
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41    
Organization: University of Houston
Date: Wed, 14 Oct 1992 05:13:00 GMT

Ok, I just wanted to let ya'll know what I felt when I ran across all
of these logs.  At first I thought they were posted by someone who
dosen't like Furries to back up the points made in the original log
from Space Madness.  Right now, I don't give a shit whether you did
it for that reason, or for some other reason.  Thing is, what you 
did is called violation of privacy.  It can also be called theft, 
or many other things.  Even if it's not illegal, it's damned sure
immoral, unethical, and downright _rude_.  Granted, I might not
have all the friends in the world, and have some enemies, but I 
at least have an ethic code that I follow.  The people out there
that know me know this.  Mister, what you did was wrong, and you're 
pissing off more than a few people.  I seriously hope some
major pain is done to you for what you're putting the various 
folx through. BTW, to Cinnibar, Alen, and anyone else involved
in the logs, I did scan one or two, discovered they were private,
and skipped the rest.

And yes, the above was a _flame_....

Jason Ballew.
From: martin@cs.curtin.edu.au (Martin Dougiamas)
Subject: Re: Net.Death-threats (was Re: tinylogs)
Keywords: tinylogs, twinks, flame, penn, idiocy, death lynch, kill
Organization: Curtin University of Technology
Date: Fri, 16 Oct 1992 05:33:16 GMT

rhodesia@wixer.cactus.org (Felix S. Gallo) writes:
>If anyone's real life is damaged because of these posts, then that person
>should check into a mental hospital shortly after the trial of the poster.

Exactly.  Anyone who takes mudding so seriously that logs such as
these can hurt them in real life, shouldn't be behaving in such a
"dangerous" way in MUDs to begin with!  

You can't have it both ways : killing and performing 'socially
unacceptable' things in a MUD and saying it's only fantasy, and
then crying when other people find out that it's part of your
real life.

Actually, this probably explains the death threats... these people
can't distinguish reality from a MUD.  Real death and pain is 
more than a @toad or a pose, people!

Relax and have a glass of perspective.

Martin
--
,--------------------------------------------------------------.      _ .
| All the deserts I could irrigate      Martin Dougiamas.      |   _r| Ll\
| All the poor I could emancipate    martin@cs.curtin.edu.au   |  |  |    \
| But that's not what interests me      Curtin University      |  \  |_   /
| I'm interested in apathy          Perth, Western Australia  -+-> x~  `-'
`=== This Is Serious, Mum ====================================='        V
From: beeboy@cats.ucsc.edu (The Honorable Rev.)
Newsgroups: rec.games.mud.tiny
Subject: where is tinytim?
Date: 15 Oct 1992 08:07:36 GMT
Organization: Maud's Taco and Coyote Church
NNTP-Posting-Host: si.ucsc.edu



Does anyone happen to know the whereabouts and/or status of the Mush
supreme, Tinytim?  Sorry if this has been asked before.

Mongo
aka

-- 
_______________Don't push me, 'cause I'm close to the edge_____________________
___________________________________________________-Grandmaster Flash_________
Reverend Beeboy, minister of Pornography, Graffiti consultant, and the Thug.
Disclaimer:  Not all plates go up in value. Some go down. 
"Welcome my friends to Palomar.  Where men are men, and women need a sense of
        humor."       -Carmen, _Love and Rockets_
"My only claim to fame is a machine that makes me loud. " -D.O.A
__________________Bad Cop!  No Donut!___________________________________________
From: mwilson@csugrad.cs.vt.edu (Bill The Cat)
Newsgroups: rec.games.mud.tiny
Subject: Re: Tiny logs ...
Date: 16 Oct 92 16:24:49 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: Virginia Tech Computer Science Dept, Blacksburg, VA

I have to agree with Bob Snyder on the fact that incorrect file permissions.
On a full UN*X account it is easy for non-computer people to think there
accounts are safe, when in fact users in their 'group' still have read or even
execute permissions.  Since many sites lump their users into the same group,
a LOT of these mistakes can be made.  

Also, we all know that there are better ways to fake a news post.  Someone
smart enough to hack the account and steal the logs, would not bother with a
guest account at UPenn... that is too easy to be traced.  A true Hack would
have used another method to send the news that would have been MUCH more 
difficult to trace.
 
         Mike -- Bill_The_Cat  -- Demon_Lord

-- 
| Mike Wilson | You can choose a ready guide in some celestial voice.         |
|   Va Tech   | If you choose not to decide, you still have made a choice.    |
|  UnderGrad  | You can choose from phantom fears, and kindness that can kill |
|Comp. Science| I will chose a path that's clear, I will chose Free Will.-RUSH|
Newsgroups: rec.games.mud.tiny
From: kinomon@glia.biostr.washington.edu (WhiteFire)
Subject: Re: tinysex logs and tinygolden showers (ghack)
Organization: University of Washington
Date: Thu, 15 Oct 1992 04:24:09 GMT

In <9210141753.AA19785@vtserf.cc.vt.edu> jfurr@vtssi.vt.edu (Joel Furr) writes:
> [nuked stuff]
>Jeez.  I mean, seriously, jeez.  Okay, I'm horrified and all at the breach of
>confidence and the theft and the un-nice-ness of posting all those logs of
>tinysex, but I'm even more horrified by the tinysex.  I mean, Furries PISSING
>ON each other?  Ghack.  Serious ghack.
> [further goes on to question the character of people in such acts]

I would love to know exactly what business it is of yours what these
people do in locked rooms, hm?  Those logs were something you should
never have scene, unless you were aiding the original poster by reading
his imoraly posted materials. 

You got only yourself to blame for your 'GHACK'ing, you read it, and
with out the permissions of those who did it.

KeyLime, once again you have managed to prove that you clue value is
less than that of the Lime you play.

Newsgroups: rec.games.mud.tiny,rec.games.mud.misc,rec.games.mud