From: ahmed@dsg.cs.tcd.ie (Ahmed El-Habbash)
Subject: Re: The Hadith about Muslims killing the Jews / Hamas vs. Sunnah
Organization: DSG, Dept. of Computer Science, Trinity College Dublin
Date: Tue, 15 Dec 1992 20:56:01 GMT

In <1992Dec14.201353.9118@cirrus.com> chrism@cirrus.com (Chris Metcalfe) writes:

>Thanks to Ilyess for the information on interpreting Hadith.

>This means that Hamas has violated Islamic principles by including an
>uncertain Hadith as an axiom of action in its war against the Jews.
>The Hamas Covenent, as quoted by Mazen, is in violation of Sunnah
>according to what Ilyess has reported:

>>>**   d) The Islamic movement is one link in the long chain of fighters
>>>** against Zionism.  We are looking forward to implement Allah's and the
>>>** Prophet's promise to the effect that "the time will come when the
>>>** Muslims will fight the Jews and kill them.... Even if Jews should hide
>>>** behind trees and rocks, these will cry out: `Oh Muslims, there is a
>>>** Jew behind me, come and kill him..." (Article 7).

>-- Chris Metcalfe

>In article <Bz5sCy.5vq@newsflash.concordia.ca> ilyess@ECE.Concordia.CA (Ilyess Bdira) writes:
>>
>>I am not denying that this Hadith exists, I will just add some information
>>that you will need before going to the books and start digging up Hadiths:
>>
>>1)Muslims have two attitudes toward Hadith in general depending on the
>>purpose behind them:
>>a)If the Hadith is a piece of knowledge: meaning that we are extracting
>>some Abstract information from them (Ilm), then we cannot take the information
>>and believe in it unless the Hadith is certain (certain to have been said
>>and clear and exact in meaning that information).. Many scholars do not
>>accept Hadith from only one source as a certainly authentic Hadith.
>>which includes single-narrator Hadiths in Muslim and Bukhari.
>>(which is the case for the Hadith in question).
>>b)If the Hadith is an istruction to do something, then a single narrator
>>is accepted if he  (and everybody in the chain) are trustworthy beyond
>>any doubts. This is the case with most Hadiths in Bukhari and Muslim..
>>(but not all, even for Sunnah). The Hadith is not an instruction it is
>>a prophecy..
>>
>>2)If a Hadith CLEARLY contradicts many things that are clear and certain
>>in Quran, then it is rejected as unauthentic. The same if it contradicts
>>Hadith that is generally accepted as Certain.
>>
>>Let me just say that it is certain in Islam that:
>>1)Muslims should not fight people who do not fight them,
>>2)Muslims should not kill women, children, old men, or monks under any
>>circumstances, unless of course they are in the enemy's army.
>>3)Muslims should not kill people after they repent and throw away their arms.
>>
>>So if anybody sees anything that contradicts this, it is not Islam.
>>The above are clear instructions that must be followed by Muslims in all
>>times, while the Hadith is a prophecy about the future that might or might not
>>contradict those instructions depending on the interpretation.
>>=============================================================
>>Modified Murphy's first law of realistic probability:
>>If it can happen, it will happen...
>>Unless of course "it" is a good thing.
>>::::::::::::::********************************:::::::::::::::
>>Ilyess Ben Ali Bdira    Montreal Quebec  Canada
>>E-mail ilyess@ECE.concordia.CA, benali@alcor.concordia.CA
>>Phone Number and Address variable...
>>::::::::::::::********************************:::::::::::::::
>>So if anybody sees anything that contradicts this, it is not Islam.

But I cannot see how the prophecy which is used by Hamas to give
inspiration and encouragement to the opressed people, the palestinians,
in their struggle with the Zionists, who occupied their land and deprive
them the right to live, contradict with Islam.  

There is an opressor, and an opressed, and the Hadeeth says that the
time will come when the opressed (curretly Muslims) will be in a different
situation.

What sort of contradiction is their ?

-- 
Ahmed I. El-Habbash, 
Department of Computer Science, Trinity College,
Dublin 2, Ireland.
Tel: office: +353-1-7021524
Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast,soc.culture.arabic