HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: CA.FER@forsythe.stanford.edu (Jennifer Gates)
Subject: Re: Seeing Ki, Aikido
Organization: Stanford University, California, USA
Distribution: usa
Date: Wed, 19 Aug 1992 22:25:56 GMT

Jeff writes...
(Major snips)
>  I always had the impression, though, that he was an
>essentially non-verbal person trying to explain aikido -- and ki -- in
>verbal ways.

I like this description of Bob Nadaeu's teaching style... I have
found him to be quite wordy while his Aikido is very impressive. I
think if you don't get too hung up on the specific words he uses,
you can see a thread that he is trying to describe....

Please don't take any of this literally. I guess another way of
saying this is that he is clearly on to something, it just isn't
always aparent what it is...

Fer
From: twcaps@tennyson.lbl.gov (Terry Chan)
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
Subject: Re: Wing Chung and the privy
Date: 20 Aug 1992 22:07:01 GMT
Organization: Department of Redundancy Department
Reply-To: TWChan@lbl.gov (Terry Chan)
NNTP-Posting-Host: 128.3.12.117

ninjam@csd4.csd.uwm.edu (Marty) writes:

  +>But it is a general attitude in many martial arts that certain types
  +>of info is reserved for people in the art itself. [...] Whether it is
  +>anything from a technique, to a theory on how you should pick your nose.

robinson@cogsci.Berkeley.EDU (Michael Robinson) writes:

  +Ah, so we finally get to the bottom of the Sticky Hands controversy...

Well, no need to be so snotty about it.


Terry "ah choo!" Chan
--
Internet:  TWChan@lbl.gov	       Next to being witty yourself, the best 
Lawrence Berkeley Laboratory               thing is to quote another's wit.
Berkeley, California  USA  94720                        -- er, I forget who
From: rchafetz@cephalo.neusc.bcm.tmc.edu (Ross Chafetz)
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
Subject: The christian thing
Date: 14 Aug 1992 17:14:50 GMT
Organization: Baylor College of Medicine, Houston,Tx




What seems so silly to me is that lots of martial arts (MA) came before
christianity.  So, it is great that some people can apply that religion
to the martial arts, but do not decieve yourself that MAs  came from
christianity and are therefor inseparatible.  I'm sure MA
did fine before christianity (and its defined morality), and can do
fine with it.  It is much better to be a good person that a good
christian.  Do not bother flaming me on the bulletin (just email if
you disagree).

:)
Ross
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
From: stark@dwovax.enet.dec.com (Todd I. Stark)
Subject: Re: Shotokan Misconceptions (soft shotokan ?)
Organization: Digital Equipment Corporation
Date: 12 AUG 92 10:25:49    


bburgar@cix.compulink.co.uk (Bill Burgar) writes...

>You are wrong-ish. Shotokan is "hard" to start with -
>maybe for about 6-10 years???, but at some point you realise
>that you can make it soft in the right places - Hard and
>Soft are essential elements of Shotokan just as in Goju Ryu.
> 
>Shotokan is actually a very relaxed style, it just looks 
>like it's hard. Infact the only time it is "hard" is at 
>the point of kime - then it is very hard. However, the

I think I can understand your meaning behind saying that JKA Karate
is not as 'hard' as it looks, and I agree.  

There is one point, though, for what it's worth -- 

it is undeniable (I think) that the average overall level of muscle tension
is *much* higher in the practice and application of some arts than in others,
and I perceive that this is *one* of the things that makes 'hard' and 'soft'
distinct.   

One way I can think of that tests this is the response to an unexpected
close range contact.

When I taught Aikido and sometimes had JKA-style people come
in to work with us, I noticed that no matter when I made contact with them,
their muscles were instantly tensed all over.  Now, whether this was a matter
of tensing as 'kime' to resist the Aiki movement as a result of their training,
or a simple matter of unfamiliarity with what was happening to them, it was a 
very pronounced effect not at all seen when I would work with Tai Chi people ,
or even with experienced boxers, whose response most often seemed to be to pivot
in place and dig in, rather than to make their body stiff.  Wrestlers seem to
give resistance, but it is more like the Tai Chi resistance, a soft, rooted,
gradual pushing strength rather than a sudden overall locking of body
musculature.

So, based on these observations, I partly dispute the contention sometimes made
that certain hard arts, like JKA-style karate, are actually soft once you 
become good with them.  However, I'd certainly admit that the tensions they
use do become of shorter duration and more focused, as befits the theory
of 'kime,' making the locking of muscles much less noticable in very
advanced people like Enoeda, Okazaki, Kanazawa, et al..

							kind regards,

							todd
From: rtravsky@news.uwyo.edu (Rich Travsky)
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
Subject: Speed of a Brick Breaking Blow
Date: 20 Aug 92 14:55:56 GMT
Organization: Banzai Institute

One of our statewide newspapers carries a column called "L. M.
Boyd  Odds & Ends". And it's exactly that, little odds and ends
(fun facts and all that).

One tidbit this week covers breaking a brick in karate. It states
that the fist ( or a foot also, I guess, but a hand is implied)
remains in contact with the surface of the brick for as little
as five one-thousandths of a second. The recoil is on the order
of 200 miles per hour.

The problem with these little gems is he (Boyd) never says where
he gets these things from. I'd sure like to see more of whatever
he's quoting from on this one.

Richard Travsky
Division of Information Technology     RTRAVSKY @ CORRAL.UWYO.EDU
University of Wyoming                  (307) 766 - 3663 / 3668
<No madness. Too bad.>  _Xenocide_, O. S. Card
From: scheid@danzan.EBay.Sun.COM (David Scheid)
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
Subject: Re: Book Reccomendations
Date: 18 Aug 1992 15:16:11 GMT
Organization: Sun Microsystems, Inc.
Distribution: world
Reply-To: scheid@danzan.EBay.Sun.COM
NNTP-Posting-Host: danzan.ebay.sun.com


Wally Jay's "Small Circle Jujutsu" is a fine book.
Yang Jwing-Ming books on Chin-Na are Jujutsu books
as well. 

Young's Martial Arts Trading on Telegraph around 
54th street in North Oakland has a good supply of MA
books. They are listed in the phone book. Get off the
freeway, go thru one stop light (Shattuck). Make a left
on Telegraph and go towards U.C. for about a mile. They
are on the left.

---
Dave Scheid - All Disclaimers Apply
From: exudms@exu.ericsson.se (New Dave)
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
Subject: Re:  The Christian MA
Date: 12 Aug 92 18:36:22 GMT
Reply-To: exudms@exu.ericsson.se
Organization: Ericsson Network Systems, Inc.

In article 9055@uwm.edu, ninjam@csd4.csd.uwm.edu (Marty) writes:
>snorthc@nswc.navy.mil (Stephen Northcutt) says:
>Subject: The Christian MA
>
>[good christian value(tm) stuff deleted]
>
>
>blechh
>
>
>I would say more but I'm to busy still laughing at Quayle and Baker.


Bad attitude. I think that the christian comments that S.N. posted here were in good context ( though I'm not christian ) and applaued his christian  philosophy application to the martial arts. ( it's his right as long as...he is not forceing on you). Now lets leave religion at home, it's to personal.		
Thankx,
New Dave
From: neil@celia.UUCP (Neil Richmond)
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
Subject: Re: Violent Crime (WAS Re: Which form for children?)
Date: 12 Aug 92 21:44:20 GMT
Reply-To: celia!neil@usc.edu (Neil Richmond)
Organization: Rhythm & Hues, Inc., Hollywood

In article <24739@castle.ed.ac.uk> loki@castle.ed.ac.uk (A Kashko) writes:
>In article <1769@celia.UUCP > celia!neil@usc.edu (Neil Richmond) writes:
> >think this has some analogs in humans. You seldom see criminals attack some-
					      ^^^^^^
> >one they think can defend themselves, ie. armed security guards or police. 
>
>	This is true of amateur, but not professional criminals.

As you might have missed, I said " seldom ". This was in the context of a per-
sonal crimes. Obviously, some criminals, both professional and amateur, attack 
law officers. They probably think they are attacking in self defense:-) 


neil

-- 
Only 2698 shopping days left till the next millenium! 
Neil F. Richmond         INTERNET: celia!neil@usc.edu
Rhythm & Hues Inc.       UUCP: ...{ames,hplabs}!lll-tis!celia!neil)
From: niliinsk@Reed.Edu (Noah P.N. Iliinsky)
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
Subject: Re: conflict avoidance
Date: 21 Aug 92 20:38:04 GMT
Organization: Reed College, Portland, OR

In article <1992Aug20.224714.24029@pixel.kodak.com> lund@ssd.kodak.com  
(Nate Lund) writes:
> In article <1992Aug20.145321.5619@zip.eecs.umich.edu>
>  lauren@bushmill.eecs.umich.edu (Brian T. Murray) writes:
> >[...]                          I have a question.  Are the principles
> >of conflict avoidance/resolution (which is a legitimate field of
> >study) taught (semi-)formally in anyone's doj*?

Yes.  My school teaches conflict de-escalation techniques as part of the  
normal training.  A very highly rated Womens Self Defense class is also  
taught at my school, with verbal self defense playing a large part of that  
training.

-Noah Iliinsky/niliinsk@reed.edu
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
From: tac@cs.brown.edu (Ted A. Camus)
Subject: bokken vs. shinken
Organization: Brown University Department of Computer Science
Date: Tue, 18 Aug 1992 19:52:24 GMT


  A while ago, I had posted that I felt it was "unfair" in some sense
  that anyone, even a novice, could kill someone with a live blade
  (shinken); conversely, it required at least some skill to deal a 
  killing blow with a wooden sword (bokken), thus such a victory
  in a bokken vs. bokken match was more "earned".  In practicing with 
  some students junior to me, I find myself often "reminding" them of 
  the importance of distance (arguably the most important aspect of 
  sword fighting, or indeed any form of fighting), in the form of a 
  quick but gentle slash across the midsection.  Clearly, this 
  "correction" is only effective if the tip is sharp, i.e. a shinken 
  is being used.  

  In other words my previous claim, that it would be to the advanced
  student's advantage to fight bokken vs. bokken (since it required 
  some skill to use effectively), has been proven incorrect.  The more
  advanced student is able to take advantage of many more subtleties
  that the novice can.  This is of course an obvious statement, but
  this example I think demonstrates just how important it is.

  Of course, they say that in the hands of a master the differences 
  between the bokken and the shinken diminish. I wonder, as I advance,
  whether I will consider the shinken to have a continual, but
  diminishing, advantage over a bokken in this context, or I will 
  flip-flop between shinken and bokken, with the relative advantage 
  being smaller each time (kind of like sin(x)/x, with x->oo).
  
  Just sharing some thoughts . . .
 
  -- Ted --

==========================================================
  Ted Camus                          Box 1910 CS Dept 
  tac@cs.brown.edu                   Brown University
  tac@browncs.BITNET                 Providence, RI 02912
From: hahn@plugh.network.com (Peter Hahn)
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
Subject: Re: Wing Chun style...help!
Keywords: Sticky Hands
Date: 18 Aug 92 00:16:49 GMT
Organization: Network Systems Corporation

I see no one's going to give this poor guy a straight answer...

In article <9223104.29068@mulga.cs.mu.OZ.AU> ninja@ecr.mu.oz.au (Jonathan_Piers HEARN) writes:

>So what exactly does 'Sticky Hands' techniques consist of ?

Sticky hands, or "Chi Sao" is a training exercise (not, as some people
seem to imagine, a fighting technique), used, most notably in Wing Chun
Gung Fu, to teach certain principles valued by that style, among them
sensitivity, "centerline energy", the ability to trap one's opponent's
hands (which follows from sensitivity), and so forth.

In practice, one brings one's forearms into contact with one's opponent's
forearms, and, while maintaining that contact (hence the "sticky"), one
attempts to make a touch on one's opponent (anything from a touch with
the fingers to the chest, to a teeth-rattling punch, depending on what
level you'd like to play the game), while avoiding a similar touch
from one's opponent.  Typically, one tries to maneuver inside the
opponent's guard, or to pin up both of his/her hands with one of
yours.

There's a lot more technique to it than that, but that's the basic
idea.

It is similar, in broad outline, and if you squint your eyes a lot,
to the Hubud (sp?) of the Filipino arts, and even (a little, though
the Tai Chi people will probably hate me for saying it) to the
"push hands" drill of Tai Chi.  Apparently, other styles of {GK}ung
Fu practice something similar to the Wing Chun Chi Sao as well.

BTW, I'm told that it is emphaticly *not* good etiquette to walk
into a strange Gung Fu school and ask to Chi Sao with someone.
Supposedly, very shortly after doing so, you will learn more about
Chi Sao than most people care to know.

If you want to know more about it than this, you'd have to ask someone
who's done it more than a dozen or so times.

-- 
Peter Hahn           |hahn@network.com|"...In Peking, he told me, there lived a
7600 Boone Ave. N    |+1 612 424-4888 |famous boxer who dropped down from three
Brooklyn Park, MN USA|                |stories onto an interior courtyard
55428                |                |without making a sound when he landed."
From: mary@Cayman.COM (Mary Malmros)
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
Subject: Re: The rat, MA, and others
Date: 19 Aug 92 19:46:20 GMT
	<16oicjINNk6b@early-bird.think.com>
	<1992Aug19.144810.10702@srg.srg.af.mil>
Followup-To: rec.martial-arts
Organization: Cayman Systems Inc., Cambridge, MA
In-reply-to: dpipes@spica.srg's message of 19 Aug 92 14:48:10 GMT


In article <1992Aug19.144810.10702@srg.srg.af.mil> dpipes@spica.srg (Dave Pipes x4552) writes:

[snip]

   Shai,
	You are aware that there is a serious rabies epidemic in Stephen's
   part of the country?  You know that rats normally won't go anywhere near
   people in the open?  You know that rats in cities are not cute, white and
   cuddly?

Actually, I thought it was raccoons that were the big problem as far as
rabies.  Both the numbers and the spread are increasing (based on # of
raccoons diagnosed each year).  
--
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
 Mary Malmros     | Cayman Systems Inc, 26 Landsdowne St, Cambridge, MA 02139
 mary@cayman.com  | Phone 617-494-1999  Fax 617-494-5167  AppleLink CAYMAN.TECH
From: snorthc@nswc.navy.mil (Stephen Northcutt)
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
Subject: The rat, MA, and others
Date: 17 Aug 92 13:37:59 GMT
Organization: NAVAL SURFACE WARFARE CENTER

Hope you find humor, perhaps even insight in this :-)  Yes its true.

Sat. night, I was sitting in a doorway downtown just out of the rain,
greeting people.  A rat runs out of the storm drain right towards me.
I see him, jump up and try to soccer style *plant left-kick right*
boot him into the street.  Rat does a 180, zips back into the storm
drain, with me on his heels.  EVERYBODY else goes, what was that!! 
===================================================================
From: poore@ds9.scri.fsu.edu (David Poore)
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
Subject: Re: Circular vs. Linear Throws (was Re: Wing Chun style...help!)
Date: 18 Aug 92 14:16:34 GMT
Reply-To: poore@ds9.scri.fsu.edu (David Poore)
Organization: Florida State University

In article <Bt5BHu.GDn@hsi.com> mallon@hsi.com (Dan Mallon-Kraft) writes:
>If you want other examples, I'd be glad to identify them, but I didn't want
>to mention oodles of them in detail nor did I want to just put out names of
>techniques that only certain folk would understand.

Thanks, Dan. This is just what I was looking for. So far, I have a
pretty limited repertoire of throwing techniques, and the ones I do know
tend to be more circular. I should have been more clear perhaps, since
others addressed the size of the circle in practice and application, but
what I really am interested in is linear movement patterns vs. circular
patterns. Perhaps this is not so easily defined after all.

David Poore
poore@ds9.scri.fsu.edu
From: snorthc@nswc.navy.mil (Stephen Northcutt)
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
Subject: Re: The rat, MA, and others
Date: 19 Aug 92 17:46:15 GMT
Organization: NAVAL SURFACE WARFARE CENTER

Joseph Chew writes:
>The kid has a pet rat.  Smart, cute little animal.

Yeah, you gotta like the lab ones, white with pink eyes, one of the
best photos I ever took was an albino rat in a cherry tree in full
bloom.

A guy in my dorm suite freshman year had a rat, for some reason, he
used to let it swim in the bathtub, one day he got a phone call and
left it unattended, I came in and it had drowned... I picked it up and
gave real gentle mouth to snout resuscitation, really warmed my heart
when it made its first few pitiful mews after reviving.

All that said I am AMAZED at the folk who have recently claimed to
be unaffected when they come across "the real thing" by surprise.
I don't think my heart slowed down for an hour.

> "The sewer rat:  Jeopardy answer to "What good are .22 Shorts"
Yeah, I guess, .22 short so the slug won't bounce up an bean ya???
I wonder if it is probable to nail one of them suckers once they 
start moving, with a handgun, oh Cherry, oh Cherry..............
===================================================================
From: marsup@cs.dal.ca (Mario Ouellet)
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
Subject: Re: The Christian MA
Date: 13 Aug 92 16:53:51 GMT
Organization: Math, Stats & CS, Dalhousie University, Halifax, NS, Canada

Religion is a personal thing. It should not be used as a vehicule to 
promote one's ideas.

Look at the world around you. A high percentage of the current world
problems have religion as their root. 

Applying Christian doctrine to marital arts, specifically, and interpreting
it literally, in general, really has no place in our so-called "modern"
world.

My opinions only.

MO
From: wrat@unisql.UUCP (wharfie)
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
Subject: Hips in aikido
Keywords: wristlocks
Date: 18 Aug 92 18:04:03 GMT
Reply-To: wrat@unisql.UUCP (wharfie)
Organization: UniSQL, Inc., Austin, Texas, USA

In article <1811@celia.UUCP> celia!neil@usc.edu (Neil Richmond) writes:
> In koshi nage, the nage still leads with the hips.

	Yes, BUT :-) they don't use their hips as a fulcrum the way we
do in judo.  I'm talking about actually rolling or pulling uke over the
hip.  They may always lead with their hips, but they end up with what
we in judo would call a hand technique.  And I submit that because they
always expect that kind of obvious lead they feel safe if they don't get
it, and forget that a throw can be accomplished with leverage as well as by
extending ki :-)  

	Here's a question:  Your opponent enters strongly so that the left
side of his chest is touching the right side of yours.  Your hips are parallel
and may also be touching.  Your posture and balance remain strong, centered,
and unbroken.  Do you feel safe?  Why or why not?
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
Subject: StrikeABlow
From: hertweck@ucunix.san.uc.edu (David W. Hertweck)
Date: Tue, 18 Aug 92 15:02:48 GMT
Organization: University of Cincinnati

Strike A Blow For Cerebral Palsy is a "Martial Arts Sampler" which is
dedicated to using martial arts to help people with developmental
disabilities.  Strike A Blow will be held on Saturday, October 31,1992
at Xavier University , Cincinnati, Ohio.  Seminars and Demonstrations   
will include Aikido, Judo, Iaido, Kobudo, Karatedo Ippon Kumite and Self-
Defense, and TaiChi, just to name a few.  Special Guest Instructor will
be Shihan Fumio Demura, 7th Dan Shito-Ryu and Consultant on the "Karate
Kid" Movies.  For further information,  please call (513) 221 - 3221
or Write  STRIKE A BLOW 92  3601 Victory Parkway  Cincinnati, Ohio  45229 
All proceeds to benefit United Cerebral Palsy of Cincinnati. Strike A Blow is a fun way to broaden your martial arts horizons while supporting the people and
 programs of United Cerebral Palsy Of Cincinnati.

or e-mail me at hertweck@ucunix.san.uc.edu for more info

p.s. include your mailing adress if you would like a registration form
From: mary@Cayman.COM (Mary Malmros)
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
Subject: Re: Back to school
Date: 19 Aug 92 18:44:42 GMT
Organization: Cayman Systems Inc., Cambridge, MA
In-reply-to: ftit@engin.umich.edu's message of 19 Aug 92 13:28:37 GMT


In article <GGf--BA@engin.umich.edu> ftit@engin.umich.edu (Sergej Roytman) writes:

   Well, summer is almost over and it's back to the old U for me.  From
   a martial-arts point of view that's great, except for one thing: lack
   of a punching bag.  I have a feeling that my schedule and those of the
   rec buildings on campus will make it very difficult for me to use a
   public bag, and the folks at housing aren't likely to let me sink a
   makiwara in the parking lot.  Still, something to strike will be
   useful -- knuckle pushups don't help one's kicks too much!

   Does anyone know of a solution to this problem?  My dorm room will
   have cinder-block walls, so there will be a solid support available,
   if that is any concern.


You can get a bag stand that will accomodate many bags.  The disadvantage
of this is, of course, that the stand will prevent you from hitting 
from some angles.  Plus they are not particularly cheap...but you can
also build your own with pipe, probably without too much trouble or 
expense.  It all depends on how big a bag you want to hang.  

There are also weeble-bags (weighted at the bottom) but these are just
like weebles...won't take much of a hit, from what I've seen.
--
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
 Mary Malmros     | Cayman Systems Inc, 26 Landsdowne St, Cambridge, MA 02139
 mary@cayman.com  | Phone 617-494-1999  Fax 617-494-5167  AppleLink CAYMAN.TECH
From: kominetz@cbmvax.commodore.com (John Kominetz - CATS)
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
Subject: Re: The Christian MA
Date: 14 Aug 92 13:54:56 GMT
Reply-To: kominetz@cbmvax.commodore.com (John Kominetz - CATS)
Organization: Commodore, West Chester, PA

I'm floored.  I always expect negative reactions when I tell people
that I'm gay, and I was expecting some from this newsgroup when I
posted about being gay in the dojo.  I did not expect it from somebody
like Stephen Northcutt.  I guess that's the problem with bigotry, 
it can hide in any person's soul.  It is even worse when this bigotry
is taught as part of a culture or religion.

I don't intend to make a point-by-point attack on Stephen's post.  
There is nothing to accomplish since Stephen's mind is immutable 
on these points; he truly believes them.  I suppose I prefer this
honesty with oneself and others more than pretending to accept 
but still hating and fearing in private.

I must say that the comparision between neo-nazis and gays in the
post befuddles me.  What is the connection supposed to be?

Stephen, I hope that time and experience changes your mind.  You may
be surprised in the future to find out that some of your close friends
are gay, and I hope you treat them with more care and compassion than
you post implies.  Maybe by then you can escape the dogma of religion
and start down a more spiritual path.

AND NOW, FOR A SMALL DEGREE OF R.M-A CONTENT:

Aikido does not have sparring or tournaments, and we actively work at
getting away from "goal" and "prize" orientation.  What other martial
arts work from this premise?  I can't imagine eskrima sparring or
ninjustu tournaments, but my exposure to other arts is limited to 
watching some TaeKwonDo and working with a Gojo-Ryu blackbelt who is
also studying aikido. 
-- 
                                      __
        John Kominetz, III            \/          Aikido Ki No Kawa
  Commodore Apps and Tech Support           "I speak for myself, not C=."
 ========================================================================
  "The higher you fly, the faster you fall."          -- Laurie Anderson
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts