HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: brianj@bedrock.cs.umd.edu (Brian Johnson)
Newsgroups: rec.boats.paddle
Subject: Re: Chad's questions about kayaks
Date: 17 Nov 92 21:48:40 GMT
Organization: Computer Science, Univ. of MD, College Park, MD 20742
In-reply-to: rlarsen@bnr.ca's message of 16 Nov 92 14:14:49 GMT

Buy as much as possible used!  Even if you ask a million questions
you'll know a lot more after paddling for a year.

Used
boat		$300	(dancer type tupperware)
paddle		tough to find, try to get with used boat
airbags		come with used boat:-)
sprayskirt	try to get with used boat
pfd		$40, try to get with used boat

Try to find someone getting out of the sport or trading up to color
coordinated squirt gear and buy all of their stuff at once - $500 (as
opposed to $1000 new).

Brian
--
Brian Johnson                                       Computer Science Department
brianj@cs.umd.edu                                        University of Maryland
(301) 405-2725                                           College Park, Md 20742

  ...there are no strangers in this world, only friends who have never met...
From: bennett@erich.triumf.ca (P.Bennett)
Newsgroups: rec.boats
Subject: Re: A Charging Question
Date: 18 Nov 1992 23:00 PST
Organization: TRIUMF: Tri-University Meson Facility
Distribution: world
NNTP-Posting-Host: erich.triumf.ca
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41    

In article <2670168@hplvec.LVLD.HP.COM>, bsmith@hplvec.LVLD.HP.COM (Brian Smith) writes...
>In rec.boats, bennett@erich.triumf.ca (P.Bennett) writes:
> 
>    An alternator requires some field current, drawn from the battery, in order to
>    work, so I would not be surprised to see no output with no battery connected.
> 
>Peter, are you saying that if I connect a battery, start the engine,
>and then disconnect the engine, that I might blow tha alternator?  I

I suppose I should have said that I was not familiar with the engine in
question, but was basing my reply on automotive type altenators, as used on
inboards.  It is usual to warn that the battery switch should not be turned
off with the engine running, and some battery switches have auxiliary contacts
to open the field circuit when turned off.

Peter Bennett VE7CEI                | Vessels shall be deemed to be in sight
Internet: bennett@erich.triumf.ca   | of one another only when one can be
Bitnet:   bennett@triumfer          | observed visually from the other
TRIUMF, Vancouver, B.C., Canada     |                          ColRegs 3(k)
From: jeffw@scam.Berkeley.EDU (Jeff Wallace)
Newsgroups: rec.boats
Subject: Help me with buying my first boat
Date: 18 Nov 1992 00:45:34 GMT
Organization: UC Berkeley Experimental Computing Facility (XCF)
Distribution: world
NNTP-Posting-Host: xcf.berkeley.edu
Originator: jeffw@xcf.Berkeley.EDU


I've been sailing for a year and I'm considering buying my first
boat.  I'm looking at buying a Cal 20.  I sailed one this summer and
had a great time with it.  I'm only planning on day sailing on
the bay and it's a good boat for that.  I've found one for $1000
and I'm interested, but I don't know the right things to look out 
for and what all the expenses I'll have with a boat.

So far I've know I'll have to pay:
   purchase price   $1000
   slip fees        $90/month
   insurance        ???
   maintenance      ???
   engine           ???
   new sails		???
   (what else?)

The boat was built in 1968, I think.  What additional problems
should I expect from an older boat?  Does anyone think a 25 year
old Cal 20 is a really bad idea?

Are there any books or magazines that cover what to expect when
buying a boat?

-- 
Jeff Wallace, Experimental Computing Facility (XCF), U.C. Berkeley
Internet: jeffw@scam.Berkeley.EDU       UUCP:...!ucbvax!scam!jeffw
Newsgroups: rec.boats
From: whoward@lamont.ldgo.columbia.edu (Will Howard)
Subject: Re: Coyote spotted, no sign of Mike Plant
Organization: Lamont-Doherty Geological Observatory
Date: Mon, 23 Nov 1992 17:50:09 GMT

NY Times today also reports that the USCG has "backtracked" Coyote's porbable
drift track to find its probable position on Oct. 27th, when the EPIRB signal
wsa picked up. Their initial search pattern was pretty far off. The boat's
present location makes sense, given its probable drift and the last reported
position on Oct. 21st ( the place where Plant contacted a passing freighter).

Newsgroups: rec.boats
From: jadams@vixen.cc.bellcore.com (adams,john)
Subject: Re: Outboard Problems
Organization: Bellcore, Livingston, NJ
Distribution: usa
Date: Wed, 18 Nov 92 14:15:20 GMT

In article <1992Nov17.145055.15383@zehntel.com> mikeg@zehntel (Mike Goldstein) writes:
>I am having a problem with a 1981 Evinrude 140 (non-VRO).
>It starts fine, runs okay, accelerates fine, but after a few
>seconds at high speed it drops dead - doesn't run rough or cough, 
>just stops cold. It restarts fine. 
>Any ideas? I suspect the fuel pump. I was alone with it so I couldn't
>pump the primer bulb while it was running to test this theory. What
>else should I look for?? The boat is drydocked now until spring.
I'd check for constrictions in the fuel line as well.  Sometimes the pickup screen
in the tank itself becomes coated with schmutz!  Kinks and/or bends sometimes do
the same as clogged filters.  A fuel line collapsed on me about four years ago
with exactly the same effect.
-- 
Jack (John) Adams			| Bellcore NVC 2Z-220
(908) 758-5372 {Voice}			| (908) 758-4389 {Facsimile}
jadams@vixen.bellcore.com		| kahuna@attmail.com
	I used to be lost in the shuffle, now I shuffle along with the lost!
Newsgroups: rec.boats
From: steve@bcrvmpc2.vnet.ibm.com
Subject: Re: A Charging Question
Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1992 14:49:01 GMT
News-Software: IBM OS/2 PM RN (NR/2) v0.14 by O. Vishnepolsky and R. Rogers
Reply-To: steve@bcrvmpc2.vnet.ibm.com
Organization: IBM, Research Triangle Park, North Carolina

I don't know that particular OB, but there is one major point to
be differentiated to understand waht is goin on.....

Larger engines usually have a real alternator.  Most of the
comments that I have seen in this thread apply to them
correctly, especially the comments about needing some field
current for the alternator to start working (double especially
for new ones, old ones usually pick up some residual magnetism
in the steel parts and will 'generate' a kick and self start);
and the fact that if it is unprotected, an alternator could
well self destruct without a load.

However, little engines have a magneto, not a real alternator.
The charging gear is just a diode and maybe a little regulation.
These gadgets just use the extra juice from the ignition generation
coil to charge the battery.  Since they only put out 1 - 5 amps,
you will not see a drastic jump in battery voltage as they
charge (as opposed to a large alternator which will drag the
battery over 13 v at idle), you will see a .5 to 1 v rise
until they approach the top voltage then it tapers off.
These chargers should work with an open circiut and about
the only way to hurt them is to short them.  On the other
hand they can be *very* noisy and your radio or depth
sounder may act strangely while charging (a cutout
switch fixes this).

The best way to check charging is with both an ammeter
and a voltmeter.

You should make sure of which type you have, their
care and feeding are different.  Nissan is
the magneto type and I believe John/rude is also.


Steve                   Steve Weingart        IBM Boca Raton
                        steve@bcrvmpc2.vnet.ibm.com

It's bad enough that I think these things, please don't think it's
my employer's opinion too.
From: davea@hpscit.sc.hp.com (Dave Angelini)
Date: Mon, 23 Nov 1992 16:34:18 GMT
Subject: Re: Mike Plant: any news?
Organization: Hewlett-Packard, Santa Clara, CA
Newsgroups: rec.boats

  I heard they found his boat. There was no sign of the skipper!

Newsgroups: rec.boats
From: stefan@leland.Stanford.EDU (Stefan Michalowski)
Subject: Re: Radio Active Waters ?
Organization: DSG, Stanford University, CA 94305, USA
Date: Mon, 23 Nov 92 17:47:14 GMT

In article <722058799.F00004@ship.wimsey.bc.ca> Konrad.Koenig@f764.n153.z1.ship.wimsey.bc.ca (Konrad Koenig) writes:
>Stefan ....
>
>The issue is fifty more voyages ... yes fifty ..
>
>Does that give you a warm feeling ???
>
>

Konrad,

I think the main hazard associated with sea transport of plutonium is
the risk of hijacking by terrorists. I doubt that there is much of
a health risk due to the sinking of a plutonium shipment, since Pu
must be aerosolized before it can cause lung cancer. 

Several nations have extensive experience in handling plutonium at
sea under conditions much more hazardous than those undertaken by
the Japanese. The real outrage, in my view, is the proposed transport
of Plutonium BY AIR. This is a completely irresponsible pracice, one 
that has been abandoned by the U.S. Air Force, whose aircraft no longer
carry nuclear weapons during routine peacetime operations.


Stefan
Newsgroups: rec.boats
From: legacy@cbnewsj.cb.att.com (wayne.m.simpson)
Subject: Mike Plant: any news?
Organization: AT&T
Distribution: na
Date: Sun, 22 Nov 1992 03:44:54 GMT


   The subject line pretty much says it all. I have heard and read
no news about the missing American solo sailor or his boat. Have any
of you people out there heard anything?

Wayne Simpson (no fancy .sig this time)

Newsgroups: rec.boats
From: andy@hendrix.ece.uiuc.edu (Andy Bereson)
Subject: Re: A social problem
Reply-To: bereson@cs.uiuc.edu
Organization: University of Illinois at Urbana
Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1992 23:05:17 GMT

In article <2670163@hplvec.LVLD.HP.COM>, bsmith@hplvec.LVLD.HP.COM (Brian Smith) writes:
|> In rec.boats, jfh@cs.brown.edu (John F. Hughes) writes:
|> 
|>     Any suggestions? Any ideas *why* these people cannot imagine a healthy woman
|>     in her 30's rowing a boat?
|> 
|> Please, John, don't make a social issue out of this in the boating
|> world.  There is already too much hate going around as one group of
|> people snaps and snarls at other groups in situations that *usually*
|> do not warrant it.
|> 
|> Yes, there are some people out there who still believe that a woman
|> can't do (insert your favourite item here...).  But most of the people
|> who say things like that are just trying to be friendly and looking
|> for something that they can break the ice with.  It's just another way
|> of saying "What a wonderful day."  They make a *what is intended to be
|> a harmless joke* and their expectation is that you will just smile and
|> wave.  Ships that pass: a pleasantry made.  That's all it is.  
|> 
|> If you make an issue of it by making some smart answer that is
|> intended to teach them a lesson, you will not have achieved nothing,
|> you will have achieved a negative affect.  If they are leather necks,
|> nothing you say will make them change their minds; if they are not,
|> you will spoil their day and they will wonder why.
|> 

This ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ is a
fine example of the sexist attitudes that the original post was trying
to do his share to eliminate.  It is the same attitude that leads to
debacles such as the hill-thomas affair.  

Sexism is so ingrained into most people by the time time they are old
enough to handle a boat that they simply don't understand how their
attitudes may be offensive.  Certainly many people (the author of the
above article included, I presume) simply don't understand teh scope or
root of the problematic attitude.  Such people could well benefit by
some appropriate response which could help deepen their understanding.

I, myself, have, on several occasions, inadvertantly offended someone.
I meant nothing harmful, but I didn't understand their perspective.  By
being told how I have erred, I can both avoid making the same error in
the future, and can also, possibly, understand the underlying problem.

If we continue to base our social interactions, particularly those with
people we don't even know, on a subservient status for women, then this
social hierarchy will continue to influence how we treat and perceive
women.

--
Andy Bereson           bereson@cs.uiuc.edu          (217)244-3617

  "Creatures inveterately wrong in their inductions have a pathetic
but praiseworthy tendency to die before reproducing their kind" -Quine
Newsgroups: rec.boats
From: mikeg@zehntel (Mike Goldstein)
Subject: Outboard Problems
Reply-To: mikeg@zehntel (Mike Goldstein)
Organization: Zehntel, Inc. Walnut Creek, CA
Distribution: usa
Date: Tue, 17 Nov 1992 14:50:55 GMT

I am having a problem with a 1981 Evinrude 140 (non-VRO).
It starts fine, runs okay, accelerates fine, but after a few
seconds at high speed it drops dead - doesn't run rough or cough, 
just stops cold. It restarts fine. 
Any ideas? I suspect the fuel pump. I was alone with it so I couldn't
pump the primer bulb while it was running to test this theory. What
else should I look for?? The boat is drydocked now until spring.


thanks-
mike goldstein
From: francis@oas.stanford.edu (Francis Muir)
Newsgroups: rec.boats
Subject: Re: Outboard HP
Date: 16 Nov 1992 17:44:41 GMT
Organization: Stanford Exploration Project
Distribution: world
NNTP-Posting-Host: oas.stanford.edu

Dave G Shively writes:

	I am considering purchasing a small outboard for my Lightning for 
	access to more of the local boat ramps which are in some fairly
	narrow creeks.  The boat weighs about 700 lbs. + crew and beer.

	What size outboard is recommended?

I really liked the 2hp Honda on a boat of similar displacement. The
4-stroke engine is smooth and quiet (relatively) and there's no oil
and gas mixing as with 2-strokes. Make sure you get the proper length
shaft and a displacement propeller.

						Fido
From: zielke@hemlock.nrl.navy.mil (David Zielke)
Newsgroups: rec.boats
Subject: Re: Question about zinc...
Date: 17 Nov 92 16:59:17 GMT
Article-I.D.: hemlock.ZIELKE.92Nov17115917
	<ZIELKE.92Nov16104430@hemlock.nrl.navy.mil>
	<lgg6j9INN9hq@exodus.Eng.Sun.COM>
Distribution: na
Organization: Naval Research Laboratory

You can either buy a 'guppy' or 'mermaid' shaped zinc with an clip on one
end to hook to the bonding system of the boat.  These cost about $35 - $40,
I took the path of buying a $5 zinc which had two copper wires comming out.
To this is soldered 10 feet of stranded copper wire with insulation and
coated the entire joint with polysulfide.  Connect one end to the ground
plane, drop the other over the side.  To see if it is working, is it being
eroded.  If it is, it must be working!!!


David Zielke
'Botany Bay'
Cal 35 Hull 006

zielke@fozzie.nrl.navy.mil
Newsgroups: rec.boats
From: whoward@lamont.ldgo.columbia.edu (Will Howard)
Subject: Re: Tuff Luff and other headstay foils
Organization: Lamont-Doherty Geological Observatory
Date: Mon, 16 Nov 1992 14:32:23 GMT

In article <1992Nov13.201859.71493@watson.ibm.com> dwl@watson.ibm.com (David W.
Levine) writes:
stuff deleted
>On a bigger boat, the trade offs change a lot. If you have tactical room
>for it, a tack change on a twin slot headfoil is pretty efficient. You
>should be
>able to do hookup at the cost of your bowman forward for about a minute,
>followed
>by under a minute to do the hoist, followed by a tack, and then another short
>period while the bowman slaps the shock-cord over the old jib to keep it from
>leaving. Probably about 3 minutes end to end, with the penalty being that of
>having the weight on the bow. For a NY-36, that's between 1 and 2 tenths of
>a knot of boatspeed. You lose a little more because you are going to incurr
>some loss of focus and attention when all this is going on, but it's not huge.
>Probably a little longer to do a inside or outside set, if you don't want to
>take the hitch for a tack change due to tactical considerations. 
>
.
stuff deleted
.
>
>My guess, again for a NY-36, since that's the boat I'm most familiar with, is
>that the break-even point for a tack change is a little under 3/4 of a
nautical
>mile from the mark. More than that and it's a clear win, under that and
>you don't
>get back the cost, unless the conditions have changed an awful lot. I'd say
you
>can change a little closer to the mark going to the larger genoa than the
other
>way round, and I'd also say that the distances only vary a little betwen
>changes
>between a #1 and a #2 or a #2 and a #3.
 
Also both the NY36 and J24 are fractional-rigged boats. For a big masthead boat
the cost (of changing headsails)/benefit(of having the right sail up) ratio
shifts further in favor of changing jibs. As with any maneuver it really helps
to practice sail changes under non-race conditions.
From: francis@oas.stanford.edu (Francis Muir)
Newsgroups: rec.boats
Subject: A Charging Question
Date: 16 Nov 1992 17:56:25 GMT
Organization: Stanford Exploration Project
Distribution: world
NNTP-Posting-Host: oas.stanford.edu

I have just gotten around to do something about the electrics on
FELIX, my Freedom 21, and the first thing I have done was to make
a lead from the Honda 8HP reghulated output to the batteries. Ever
the cautious one, I checked out the Honda's voltagwe output with
my brand new Fluke digital meter (great device. the Model 10.)
and was surprised to see it register anywhere from -0.2 to -0.5 volts.
My first cry was one of anguish, but it occurs to me that a regulated
charger output might show very anomalous readings on essentially
open circuit. Any ideas?

PS. In light airs I'm having fun beating up on an Erickson 23 but
not too much luck wiping out the local J24's -- unless they're sailed
rather poorly. I think I'll get that staysail I've been thinking about,
and roll it up on a Harken furler.

							Fido
Newsgroups: rec.boats
From: ecf_stbo@jhuvms.hcf.jhu.edu (Wizard shot the food!)
Subject: Re: Unstayed Rigs
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41    
Organization: The Johns Hopkins University - HCF
Date: Mon, 23 Nov 1992 20:51:00 GMT

In article <1992Nov23.200605.18256@hpcvusn.cv.hp.com>, robertw@hpcvusd (Robert B. Williams) writes...
>I think there was an incident when they sailed without the jib.  It really
>destroyed the boat's windward ability, much to everyone's surprise.  (That
>jib is REALLY tiny compared to the main.)  I'd guess the slot on the lower
>half of the main is important because of the large chord of the main,
>and the wind velocity differential nearer the water.

In addition, I would expect the wind to very lifted in the space ahead of such
a big main. Even though the jib is really tiny, it should be a lot more
effective per unit area since the lift generated will point more forward. Once
you are at speed and you want to point up, you don't usually need as much
power, but power in the right direction. 


Tom O'Toole - ecf_stbo@jhuvms.hcf.jhu.edu - JHUVMS system programmer 
Homewood Computing Facilities, Johns Hopkins University, Balto. Md. 21218 
>Here comes a jet ski.
>weuh weeuhh weeuhh weeuhh WEEUHH WEEUHH WEEUHH WEEUHH weeuhh weeuhh weeuhh weuh
From: aro@aber.ac.uk (Andrew Ormsby)
Newsgroups: rec.boats
Subject: Re: Tuff Luff and other headstay foils
Date: 18 Nov 92 16:29:37 GMT
	<1992Nov10.183134.2735@das.harvard.edu>
	<1992Nov10.221143.13020@klaava.Helsinki.FI>
	<1992Nov13.185255.4694@ttinews.tti.com>
	<1992Nov13.201859.71493@watson.ibm.com>
Reply-To: aro@aber.ac.uk (Andrew Ormsby)
Organization: CS Dept, University College of Wales, Aberystwyth

With all of this discussion about tuff luffs, I'm surprised that
nobody has mentioned the "obvious" compromise: keep the hanks on your
foresails but have two forestays. I sailed on a Rival 34 which had
this arrangement and it seemed to work pretty well. You need a
suitable stemhead bracket if you are going to do this, though.

I have a tuff luff equivalent (actually from Hood; I don't know what
it is called) and I'm pretty happy with it. One the whole, for a
cruising boat (which is how mine is used), I'd rather have hanks. But
the foil is useful (and fun) for a quick headsail change if you have
plenty of crew on board. I'd certainly want it for racing.

Andrew Ormsby
aro@aber.ac.uk
From: mcdonald@acf3.nyu.edu (mcdonald)
Newsgroups: rec.boats
Subject: Miami/J24 Mid-Winters/local knowledge
Summary: Miami/J24 Mid-Winters/local knowledge
Keywords: Miami/J24 Mid-Winters/local knowledge
Date: 16 Nov 92 21:03:54 GMT
Organization: New York University

Please pass along any tips about the tides and winds in Biscayne Bay and
any bars or restaurants recommended.

			Thank you,

		        Jeff
Newsgroups: rec.boats
From: petere@tesla.mitre.org (Peter D. Engels)
Subject: Re: wood or glass?
Followup-To: rec.boats
Organization: The MITRE Corporation
Date: Tue, 17 Nov 1992 17:37:38 GMT

In article <1992Nov14.010752.11089@u.washington.edu>,
kaygee@hardy.u.washington.edu (Kevin Giansante) wrote:
> 
> I'd been advised by many folks to avoid buying a used wooden boat
> because of the relatively high maintenance.  Not sure what they
> were talking about, I took a short course in wooden boat
> maintenance and repair, and I now have a much better idea about
> what's involved in dealing with an aging wooden boat.
> 
> But I still can't compare wood to fiberglass because I can't find
> much information about maintaining glass.  I hear and read many
> references to osmosis, gelcoat crazing, delamination, and other
> ailments, but nobody seems to be able to tell me what it's realistic
> to expect of, say, a twenty-to-thirty-year-old fiberglass hull, or what
> might be involved in refurbishing a neglected glass boat.

It's impossible to generalize about specific repairs; however, I have
friends who have repaired badly damaged (holed by rocks and sunk) boats,
with both wood and fibreglass hulls themselves.  The methods and materials
are vastly different, but in both cases they are within the capability of
reasonably capable amateurs.

I would like to add a comment about the relative cost of maintaining wood
and fibreglass.  I have owned both; in my experience, an equivalent amount
of care takes about the same amount of time.  Fibreglass hulls can be
neglected to a far greater extent than wood, without major problems. 
However, when time comes to sell, the neglected fibreglass hull will fetch
a much smaller amount than a well-maintained one.  And when it comes to
cost, there is actually little difference; propulsion (engines, sails,
rigging, etc) costs, over time, dominate the overall cost to the point
where it is pointless to argue.  This has been my experience, and that of
my sailing friends, over forty years of sailing and at least 20 different
boats in that time (five fibreglass, 15 wood).

-Pete
Newsgroups: rec.boats
From: stefan@leland.Stanford.EDU (Stefan Michalowski)
Subject: Sailing schools and boat buying
Organization: DSG, Stanford University, CA 94305, USA
Date: Thu, 19 Nov 92 17:48:12 GMT

In another thread, Peter Bennett writes:

>Cal-20's are great little boats.  I bought a used one in 1968, used it for a
>year, then leased it to a sailing school who used it much harder than an
>individual would have...

This is a valuable datum. Anyone who is trying to decide
on a used boat should check out the local schools. They will
have chosen the type of boat that is best suited to the local 
conditions. [John Hughes: perhaps this hint should go into the
FAQ file].

In the SF Bay area, Olympic Circle Sailing Club (the best-known 
school) uses Cal20s (my former boat), Olson 25s (my current boat), 
J24s and a couple of larger boats, too. What do schools use in other
areas?


Stefan
Newsgroups: rec.boats