HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: lady@uhunix.uhcc.Hawaii.Edu (Lee Lady)
Newsgroups: alt.hypnosis
Subject: Re: Neuro-Linguistic Programming (FAQ)
Summary: Just send a postcard asking for the catalog.
Keywords: NLP  NeuroLinguistic Programming
Date: 11 Dec 92 22:01:41 GMT
Followup-To: alt.hypnosis
Organization: University of Hawaii (Mathematics Dept)

In article <10378@vtserf.cc.vt.edu> usdgog@vtserf.cc.vt.edu (Greg Granger) 
    writes:
>On the other side of the coin, if the NLP people would like to share
>something about the NLP process, PLEASE DO SO.  Messages like "NLP
>cures ..." are silly, unless accompanied by something like "the person
>was instructed in the following manner ... step 1 ... 2 ..."  Messages
>of form without substances only reinforce the assertion that NLP is
>a less than legit field.  I'm afraid that citing articles from journals
>isn't much use either, print is cheap. 

In my opinion, one of the best ways of getting an idea of what NLP is
about is to send a postcard to NLP Comprehensive, 2897 Valmont Rd, 
Boulder, CO 80301 (303) 442-1102 and ask them to send you their catalog
of books and videotapes.  Looking through the titles and descriptions
will give you a much more realistic picture of NLP than listening to late
night infomercials.  

You can do this without worrying that your mailbox will start being
flooded by junk mail.  However if this is a real concern, simply state on
your postcard "Please do not add me to your mailing list."  
  
--
It is a poor sort of skepticism which merely delights in challenging
those claims which conflict with one's own belief system.  
                                                          --Bogus quote 
lady@uhunix.uhcc.hawaii.edu         lady@uhunix.bitnet
From: pst@csd4.csd.uwm.edu (Peter Stephen Thomas Iii)
Newsgroups: alt.hypnosis
Subject: Looking for the FAQ list list
Date: 18 Dec 1992 19:29:31 GMT
Organization: Computing Services Division, University of Wisconsin - Milwaukee
NNTP-Posting-Host: 129.89.7.4

Hello there!

I saw this newsgroup in the "new area" and it piqued my interest.   

SOrry for the waste of bandwidth, but could the Keeper of the FAQ please
e-mail it to me?

Thanks!

Peter Thomas

-- 
"I'll lose my beard when they shave it from my cold, dead face!"

Quote from the Razor's Anonymous Handbook
From: steve.crabtree@synapse.org (Steve Crabtree) 
Newsgroups: alt.hypnosis
Subject: Hypnosis and the Soul
Date: 15 Dec 92 20:13:00 GMT
Distribution: world
Organization: SYNAPSE BBS - GATINEAU, QUEBEC - 819-561-4321
Reply-To: steve.crabtree@synapse.org (Steve Crabtree) 

To: alt.hypnosis
From: steve.crabtree@synapse.org

radinsky@spot.Colorado.EDU (Wayne Radinsky)  writes:
WR> steve.crabtree@synapse.org (Steve Crabtree)  writes:

WR> > What puzzles me is that so little work seems to be done these days
WR> > exploring the possible links between hypnosis and parapsychology with a
WR> > view to exploring the nature of humankind.

WR> You might be interested in "Venture Inward" by Hugh Lynn Cayce (our
WR> library has it).  It's about the work of Edgar Cayce, who I would
WR> say does link hypnosis and parapsychology (as well as explore the
WR> "nature of humankind").

This raises the point another poster made about the equivalence of
different forms of trance. From the little I've read about Cayce, his
trances seemed more like those of the spiritualist mediums of the time,
spontaneous events rather than specifically induced ones? I'll check out
whether the book is in my local library. Thanks for the suggestion.

WR> My impression is that parapsychological work isn't funded because if
WR> their results are negative, there was no point in doing the research,
WR> and if their results are positive, nobody believes them anyway.

It is funded to some extent; my puzzlement has more to do with the fact
that hypnotic trance seemed to be a very rich source of paranormal
phenomena in the 1800's and yet it's virtually ignored in modern
research.

Does anyone have any experience with apparent psi phenomena cropping up
spontaneously with hetero or self hypnosis?
   
Newsgroups: alt.hypnosis
From: pwh@bradley.bradley.edu (Pete Hartman)
Subject: Re: Neuro-Linguistic Programming (FAQ)
Organization: Bradley University
Distribution: usa
Date: Tue, 15 Dec 92 19:18:04 GMT

In <1992Dec13.004545.12281@ultb.isc.rit.edu> rxv9839@ritvax.isc.rit.edu (Bob Vogel) writes:
>Is this possibly an example showing that NLP can even be practiced over the net??   Now there a couple of phobias that I'd like to tell you about............

I haven't seen any particularly effective use of NLP so far....
-- 
Pete Hartman		       Bradley University	pwh@bradley.bradley.edu
                                   Haazavaa?
Newsgroups: alt.hypnosis
From: dlb@fanny.wash.inmet.com (David Barton)
Subject: Re: Hypnosis and the Soul
Organization: Intermetrics Inc., Washington Division, USA
Date: Mon, 14 Dec 1992 15:31:44 GMT

In article <231.3473.uupcb@synapse.org> steve.crabtree@synapse.org
(Steve Crabtree) writes:

   The same thought has occurred to me. If there is no unique brain
   state which underlies what appears to be a unique set of
   behavioural phenomena, you're left with the options of denying the
   existence of hypnosis and accusing people of acting, assuming that
   the states of the brain can change without affecting EEG, or with
   the tantalizing possibility that hypnosis may act not on brain but
   on mind (soul etc.)

This may simply reflect the narrowness of your definition of what
"hypnosis" is.  If trance behavior is seen as a natural phenomena,
part of everyday life and occuring to everyone several times a day,
and that a formal induction is simply a mechanism for gaining access
to this natural skill, then some of this dilemma goes away.

   One recent example; last year, I attended a presentation in which
   the presenter claimed that he could consistently demonstrate
   precognition with an excellent trance subject. The procedure is to
   suggest that the time is 10 minutes later than now and to show the
   subject a blank piece of paper on which a drawing will later be
   made and to request them to copy it. The subject, of course, is
   told that the drawing already has been made.

   According to this source, this results in a remarkable match with
   what is later (randomly) drawn. (This work is not intended as a
   formal experiment but as exploratory work).

I would GREATLY appreciate more infomation about this procedure.
Time, place, participants, and any sponsoring organization would be a
good start.

   What puzzles me is that so little work seems to be done these days
   exploring the possible links between hypnosis and parapsychology
   with a view to exploring the nature of humankind.

Funding for parapsychology research (as opposed to other kinds of "New
Age" activities) is hard to come by.  Explicitly stating hypotheses
and the expected results of the experiment, and what it means (in the
example above) for a sketch to be a "remarkable match" is difficult in
any rigorous way.  Getting published is also rather difficult.  Some
progress is being made, but not at the "hypnosis end" of things.

					Dave Barton
					dlb@hudson.wash.inmet.com
Newsgroups: alt.hypnosis
From: rxv9839@ritvax.isc.rit.edu (Bob Vogel)
Subject: Re: Hypnosis Levels
Reply-To: rxv9839@ritvax.isc.rit.edu
Organization: Rochester Institute of Technology
Date: Sun, 13 Dec 1992 00:44:05 GMT

In article <DLB.92Dec11125522@fanny.wash.inmet.com>, dlb@fanny.wash.inmet.com
 (David Barton) writes:
>In article <1992Dec9.170657.29938@nrc.com> Edison Carter <ec@nrc.com>
>writes:
>
>
>   Re: Hypnosis Levels
>
>   The level scheme that I was taught is indeed dealing with brain
>   frequency....The levels that are noted as:
>
>   Alpha.....State we are in now.....
>
>   Beta....  Light hypnosis state....such as those states where you
>   are staring at the TV & blocking everything else out.
>
>   Theta.....Deep hypnothic state.
>
>   Delta.... Comatose type state.....very little is said to be known
>   about this state.
>
>With respect, I think that the identity between various EEG
>frequencies and the depth of hypnotic trance is a red herring.
>
>Frequent research has shown no particular correlation between trance
>phenomena and EEG frequency.  A person in deep trance may, upon
>suggestion, engage in a complex visualization exercise or other task.
>When this happens, the EEG shows patterns characteristic of intense
>mentation when in the normal state.  The trance depth is not affected.
>
>EEG readings tend to show relaxed or active mental states (for
>example, readings taken when asleep but during REM dreaming are
>incredibly active).  Identifying them with various trance indicators
>is probably more misleading then helpful.
>
>					Dave Barton
>					dlb@hudson.wash.inmet.com

Don't you all think (with due respect for the menatl anguish that may cause
some of the "flame" experts reading) that the lack of correlation between
trance phenomena and EEG's and any number of the other comments that have been
posted here {when we weren't talking about NLP} point strongly in the direction
that there is a part of our psyche (soul, most basic uniquness, & 50 other
terms for that same essential "us-ness") that is both seperable from the body
and not observable, at least with our current crude instruments?  Many people's
out of body experiences would seem to point in this direction.  Such a separate
self would possibly account also for some of the anamolies discussed herein.
Comments??  observations that tend to support or detract??  Anybody in hypnosis
had anything to say about this?  
Newsgroups: alt.hypnosis
From: dlb@fanny.wash.inmet.com (David Barton)
Subject: Re: Hypnosis Levels
Organization: Intermetrics Inc., Washington Division, USA
Date: Fri, 11 Dec 1992 17:55:22 GMT

In article <1992Dec9.170657.29938@nrc.com> Edison Carter <ec@nrc.com>
writes:


   Re: Hypnosis Levels

   The level scheme that I was taught is indeed dealing with brain
   frequency....The levels that are noted as:

   Alpha.....State we are in now.....

   Beta....  Light hypnosis state....such as those states where you
   are staring at the TV & blocking everything else out.

   Theta.....Deep hypnothic state.

   Delta.... Comatose type state.....very little is said to be known
   about this state.

With respect, I think that the identity between various EEG
frequencies and the depth of hypnotic trance is a red herring.

Frequent research has shown no particular correlation between trance
phenomena and EEG frequency.  A person in deep trance may, upon
suggestion, engage in a complex visualization exercise or other task.
When this happens, the EEG shows patterns characteristic of intense
mentation when in the normal state.  The trance depth is not affected.

EEG readings tend to show relaxed or active mental states (for
example, readings taken when asleep but during REM dreaming are
incredibly active).  Identifying them with various trance indicators
is probably more misleading then helpful.

					Dave Barton
					dlb@hudson.wash.inmet.com

Newsgroups: alt.hypnosis
From: pwh@bradley.bradley.edu (Pete Hartman)
Subject: Re: George Clark Proposes Silencing Friday re NLP
Organization: Bradley University
Distribution: usa
Date: Tue, 15 Dec 92 19:37:28 GMT

In <1992Dec12.172505.18131@netcom.com> friday@netcom.com (Carol Anne Ogdin) writes:
>B.  Let the participants of this newsgroup vote on it:  Either George stops
>    posting anti-NLP diatribes, or Friday stops providing NLP information.

This is ludicrous.  Perhaps it would be reasonable to say that all should
stop with attacking others, but to say "either my opinion wins, or his
does" shuts out any kind of meaningful difference of opinion.  Perhaps you
don't think the difference is meaningful, but I can't see how you can make
that judgement for all the potential readers here.

I don't particularly want to hear more BS from anyone--that includes NLP
proseletyzing on your part, Friday, and repeated attacks from George.
You've both made your points time and again, and I think it's time
to move on.  I certainly don't want to silence you about NLP, but repeating
the same claims (which from my perspective are unfounded, since you don't
seem capable of demonstrating much over the net) is not adding any more
information than George's rigid nay-saying.

>      iii.  On Sunday, December 20th, you count up how many "more from Friday"
>            and "more from George" votes there are, and we behave accordingly.

Who counts?  Who makes sure that the postings have all propagated to the site
of the person who counts?  I really can't see this as a fair method of
voting.  Perhaps it could be amended to say that any votes that have a
posted date before the 20th will be counted even if they propagate to
the counter's site later than that.

>                                                                       Are
>            you man enough to agree to cease your anti-NLP diatribes if the
>            vote is NOT in your favor?

Are you woman enough to cease your condescension to anyone who doesn't
meet your standards?
-- 
Pete Hartman		       Bradley University	pwh@bradley.bradley.edu
      No one in the world ever gets what they want, and that is beautiful
            Everbody dies frustrated and sad, and that is beautiful
Newsgroups: alt.hypnosis
From: georgec@eng.umd.edu (George B. Clark)
Subject: Re: Neuro-Linguistic Programming (FAQ)
Date: Sat, 12 Dec 92 14:26:38 GMT
Organization: University of Maryland
Keywords: NLP Hypnosis

In article <1992Dec11.203544.10959@netcom.com> slf@netcom.com (Sharon Fisher) writes:
>georgec@eng.umd.edu (George B. Clark) writes:
>
>>I purchased that memory enhancement, home-study cassette course that
>>you see advertised on half-hour TV infomercials. It was worthless.
>
>You buy things from infomercials and you call *NLP* a crock?  Well,
>never mind.  Carry on.

The cost was small, Friday, so I knew any loss would be small. That doesn't
apply to NLP, where everything is expensive, and the buyer's loss is
always large.

      some deletion

>>I threw the memory home-study course in the trash.
>   ^^^^^
>
>Further evidence that you may be predominantly kinesthetic (as opposed
>to your saying, "I could see that it was a complete waste," or "It
>sounds like crap to me").

A more plausible explanation is the claims of the manufacturer were
fraudulent.

Whether some people are visual, others auditory, and others kinesthetic
is nonsense, but it is perpetuated by the NLP crowd because it sells.
Since NLP is a commercial business, selling is what's important.

How then do you explain a blind man like Stevie Wonder writing music
filled with visual lyrics? Listen to the words in his song "I Just
Called To Say I Love You."
From: HOFANTJ@YaleVM.YCC.Yale.Edu
Newsgroups: alt.hypnosis
Subject: SELF-HYPNOSIS... HOW CAN I DO IT?
Date: 13 Dec 92 07:25:50 GMT
Organization: Yale University


 Dear friends: This is the very first time that I post in this board and I was
very thrilled to find that there was a hypmosis section. I have always been
fascinated by this phenomenom and I've read book on it. However, I have never
 been able to successfully achieve self-hypnosis. I've tried many methods (rela
xation to a certain point, staring at one object, placing myself in a certain
 staircase or bady of water, etc.,) but none of them seem to work. I would
appreciate it if any of you have any files that you could send to me or any
suggestions as to how to do this. I have personalle never been hypnotized and I
 am very eager to learn how to do it myself first. Thank you very much for any
information.
                                   Antonio Jose Hofbauer
                                   HOFANTJ@YALEVM.EDU
Newsgroups: alt.hypnosis
From: dlb@fanny.wash.inmet.com (David Barton)
Subject: Re: Hypnosis and the Soul
Organization: Intermetrics Inc., Washington Division, USA
Date: Tue, 15 Dec 1992 21:59:56 GMT

In article <249.3473.uupcb@synapse.org> steve.crabtree@synapse.org
(Steve Crabtree) writes:

   I accept your broadening of the definition, but I'm not sure how it
   helps unless you're suggesting that (for these informally induced
   trances) there are detectable EEG changes accompanied by the same
   suggestibility characteristic of a more formally induced trance.

Much simpler than that; if hypnosis is a normal phenomenon, then we
would expect NO EEG changes (which is what we observe), beyond the
activity that is suggested to the client (alpha waves in response to
suggested relaxation, which is observed normally).  No indication of a
separate "soul", no indication of something that we are not measuring;
rather, a reflection of the fact that trance is something that happens
all the time.

   The presentation was an informal (i.e. not sponsored) presentation at
   the annual conference for the Society for Psychical Research in
   September 1991. I will have to dig out the other details for you.

If you have the time, I would appreciate it.

   I think these problems have been successfully addressed in the blind
   judging procedures used for Ganzfeld experiments etc. Tends to
   understate the closeness of good matches, but is still sufficient to
   show effects.

Hmmm.  Do you know if these are the same procedures used by the PEAR
group in their investigation of remote viewing?

					Dave Barton
					dlb@hudson.wash.inmet.com
Newsgroups: alt.hypnosis
From: rxv9839@ritvax.isc.rit.edu (Bob Vogel)
Subject: Re: Neuro-Linguistic Programming (FAQ)
Reply-To: rxv9839@ritvax.isc.rit.edu
Organization: Rochester Institute of Technology
Date: Sun, 13 Dec 1992 00:45:45 GMT

Is this possibly an example showing that NLP can even be practiced over the net??   Now there a couple of phobias that I'd like to tell you about............
Newsgroups: alt.hypnosis
From: slf@netcom.com (Sharon Fisher)
Subject: Re: Neuro-Linguistic Programming (FAQ)
Keywords: NLP Hypnosis
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services  (408 241-9760 guest) 
Date: Sat, 12 Dec 1992 17:23:37 GMT

georgec@eng.umd.edu (George B. Clark) writes:

>In article <1992Dec11.203544.10959@netcom.com> slf@netcom.com (Sharon Fisher) writes:

>>>I threw the memory home-study course in the trash.
>>   ^^^^^
>>
>>Further evidence that you may be predominantly kinesthetic (as opposed
>>to your saying, "I could see that it was a complete waste," or "It
>>sounds like crap to me").

>A more plausible explanation is the claims of the manufacturer were
>fraudulent.

I'm referring not to your opinion, but how you expressed it.  You
expressed it in kinesthetic terms, and you described the course as
being in visual and auditory terms -- so naturally it wouldn't work
well for you.  That's a problem a friend of mine, who is also
kinesthetic, has had with some of the books; he has to keep reframing
the predominantly visual stuff in the books in terms he can
understand.  (On the other hand, he's great at observing body motions
and how people call up memories.)

>How then do you explain a blind man like Stevie Wonder writing music
>filled with visual lyrics? Listen to the words in his song "I Just
>Called To Say I Love You."

Don't know the words by heart, but since the entire song is about a
*telephone* call -- an *auditory* experience -- classing it as visual
seems silly.  Also, a song is not a normal means of conversation; he
may well have deliberately learned visual images because that's what
he thinks the majority of people want (perhaps he doesn't know this
*consciously*).  

Also, I don't think it's out of the question for a blind person to be
visual; I remember reading something in one of the books about this
but don't remember the details.  Perhaps Carol remembers.
From: friday@netcom.com (Carol Anne Ogdin)
Newsgroups: alt.hypnosis
Subject: Re: George Clark Proposes Silencing Friday re NLP
Date: 16 Dec 92 06:58:02 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services  (408 241-9760 guest)

In <1992Dec15.193728.1182@bradley.bradley.edu> pwh@bradley.bradley.edu (Pete Hartman) writes:

>Are you woman enough to cease your condescension to anyone who doesn't
>meet your standards?
>-- 
>Pete Hartman		       Bradley University	pwh@bradley.bradley.edu

No, Pete, because I don't accept the presuppositions embedded in your query.

No, on a second count, because I value my standards; values are what one is
willing to expend energy on acquiring and sustaining.  I will always encourage
excellence in everything I ever can.
-- 
--Friday                                    "Knowledge is guesswork
   Carol Anne Ogdin, Principal Designer         disciplined by 
   Deep Woods Technology                        rational criticism." 
     friday@netcom.com                                 --Karl Popper
From: curt@access.digex.com (curt williams)
Newsgroups: alt.hypnosis
Subject: Re: SELF-HYPNOSIS... HOW CAN I DO IT?
Date: 20 Dec 1992 21:01:15 GMT
Organization: Express Access Online Communications, Greenbelt, MD USA
NNTP-Posting-Host: access.digex.com


Newsgroups: alt.hypnosis
From: rxv9839@ritvax.isc.rit.edu (Bob Vogel)
Subject: Re: George Clark Proposes Silencing Friday re NLP
Reply-To: rxv9839@ritvax.isc.rit.edu
Organization: Rochester Institute of Technology
Date: Sun, 13 Dec 1992 00:51:02 GMT

OK now lets get out our auditory, visual, and kinestectic sense.
I've found this discussion very interesting, albeit a tad personal and boring
at times.  But I'm willing to put up with the minor negatives for the major
positives--I'm learning a bit more about NLP and how to phrase a bad argument.It related enough to hypnosis.  Plus, if anyone has aNYTHING to say about hyp
they can sure post away and would find us if they looked at the group list.
Excessive zeal in categorizing everything to the gnat's ass is indicative
of, wellllll, some MENTAL problem.  Let the discussion continue and go
where it will.  When we start a thread on hot-air ballooning, then I'll be
ready to see another group created.
From: curt@access.digex.com (curt williams)
Newsgroups: alt.hypnosis
Subject: Re: Info on self-hypnosis
Date: 20 Dec 1992 21:07:41 GMT
Organization: Express Access Online Communications, Greenbelt, MD USA
NNTP-Posting-Host: access.digex.com
From: curt@access.digex.com (curt williams)
Newsgroups: alt.hypnosis
Subject: Re: George Clark Proposes Silencing Friday re NLP
Date: 20 Dec 1992 21:34:37 GMT
Organization: Express Access Online Communications, Greenbelt, MD USA
NNTP-Posting-Host: access.digex.com

In article <1h2evbINNml5@mirror.digex.com> curt@access.digex.com (curt williams) writes:
>I don't want to hear anything more about NLP-- pro or con.  Maybe the
>NLP people need a separate group!???  alt.hypnosis.NLP


I take it all back.  I just stumbled into this group and must have
OD'd on NLP stuff.  Everyone should be free to read/write (or not)
whatever they want.  A thousand apologies.
Newsgroups: alt.hypnosis