From: jpak@oakhill.sps.mot.com (Jim Pak)
Subject: Re: Asian American culture (was Re: Some clarification)
Reply-To: jpak@manute.sps.mot.com
Organization: Motorola Inc.  Austin, Tx.
Distribution: na
Date: Tue, 15 Sep 1992 04:57:53 GMT

In article <1992Sep14.063935.25502@mumbo.apple.com> tse@loonybin.apple.com (Gary Tse) writes:
>In article <MDAY.92Sep13134758@jukebox.lcs.mit.edu> mday@jukebox.lcs.mit.edu (Mark Day) writes:
>>
>>   kawakami@ocf.berkeley.edu (John Kawakami) writes:
>>
>>   I believe the more "Asian American" issue at hand would be tse's question
>>   of what constitutes Asian American culture.  The question of how it can
>>   be defined and classified.  The inital problem is finding a culture which
>>   encompasses all Asian groups.  

And that's where you go wrong.  Who said for something to be part of a culture,
it has to apply to *ALL* the members of the group?  For goodness sake, both
you and Roger have let Gary define culture as "aspects that apply to EVERY
member of that group."  Baloney.  Using that definition of "culture," then
there's no such thing as culture, period.

To me, Japanese, Korean, Vietnamese, Tagalog, the various Chinese dialects,
and other Asian languages as well as English are all defining of "Asian
American" culture.  And so are the various food dishes that make up the
various Asian cuisines.  And so are sushi bars, eating food with chopsticks,
taking off your shoes when you enter somebody's house, the various Chinatowns
across America, karaoke, celebrating Chinese New Year, fanatical devotion to
education, etc etc etc.  Who said only victimization and discrimination were
the only defining aspects of Asian American culture?  Only if you're foolish
enough to say that culture is only defined when EVERY SINGLE PERSON partici-
pates in that particular thing.  That's utter nonsense.

If you don't believe me, then please tell me what American culture is.  What's
an example of it?  I say there's no such thing.

>>3. "Americans of East Asian and Southeast Asian ancestry": In common
>>American usage, "Asian American" means the same as the discredited
>>term "oriental", i.e. a person of East Asian or Southeast Asian
>>ancestry.  
>>This group really does have some shared culture: every
>>culture in East Asia has some Chinese influence, whether they
>>acknowledge it or not.
>
>Do you mean to say that Asian Americans need to partake of their ancestral
>culture?  This is a rather controversial claim.  I suspect this is neither
>reasonable nor widely acceptable.

Who said ALL Asian Americans need to partake of something to make it a valid
part of Asian American culture?  If a significant sub-group of Asian Americans
partake in it, then it's part of Asian American culture.

Tell me, what's American culture?  Does it exist?

>>There are also shared experiences of America:
>>white racists don't distinguish between Japanese, Chinese, and
>>Vietnamese, and will cheerfully beat up or kill a Vietnamese over
>>Japanese actions, whereas I have yet to hear of a desi who was beaten
>>by a crazed Vietnam-era veteran suffering a flashback.  Similarly,
>>most AEASEAAs who've attended an American grade school have
>>suffered some variant of taunts about "slit eyes" and similar
>>non-white "racial" characteristics.
>
>Agreed.  What I asked at the start of this thread is whether there
>is anything more to Asian American culture than victimization and 
>discrimination.  The answer to that question seems to be "no".

Of course there is!  But then, the way you define culture guarantees a "no"
answer.

Again, I'll ask:  what is *American* culture?  What defines it?  Does it
exist?  If so, give me examples of what American culture is.

I'll bet I can prove it doesn't exist.

Jim