HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: bmadsen@dsd.es.com (Bruce Madsen)
Subject: Ct of Honor Displays
Reply-To: bmadsen@dsd.es.com (Bruce Madsen)
Organization: Evans & Sutherland Computer Corp., Salt Lake City, UT
Date: Mon, 14 Sep 92 15:17:07 GMT

I would like to make our Courts of Honor a little more special by
creating some displays or "props" about the Scout Law, Oath, Rank
Advancements, etc. (e.g., a log with 12 lit candles with the points of
the Scout Law written beneath, etc). Not being a very creative person,
I would like some suggestions on what could be made at "reasonable"
expense that would help make our Courts more special and motivational.

Any suggestions?

-- 

 Bruce K. Madsen		    | "Listen, 3-eyes, don't you try to 
 (bmadsen@dsd.es.com)               | out-weird me. I get stranger things 
 Evans & Sutherland Computer Corp.  | than you free with my breakfast 
 Salt Lake City, Utah (801)582-5847 | cereal."
				      			- Z. Beeblebrox
 #include <standard_disclaimer>		
Newsgroups: rec.scouting,alt.discrimination,chi.general,alt.atheism,alt.politics.homosexuality
From: rogerk@QueerNet.ORG (Roger B.A. Klorese)
Subject: Re: BofA and UW can now support discrimination against blacks and Jews
Reply-To: rogerk@QueerNet.ORG (Roger B.A. Klorese)
Organization: QueerNet
Distribution: usa
Date: Tue, 8 Sep 1992 05:39:17 GMT

In article <dusek.715885587@shale>, dusek@rtsg.mot.com (James P. Dusek) writes:
|> 	Japanese were *NOT* put into concentration camps during WW2.
|> You are falling for media hype. There is a big difference between
|> a consentration camp and a detainment camp.

And you're falling for America-Firster jingoistic bullshit.  Try asking people
who were in the camps...

|> 	Saying people are killing gays because they are gay is one
|> thing. Saying "gay" consentration camps are the next thing is going
|> overboard and making your whole argument look stupid.

William F. Buckley's notion of isolation camps comes to mind...
-- 
ROGER B.A. KLORESE                                              +1 415 ALL-ARFF
rogerk@unpc.QueerNet.ORG                 {ames,decwrl,pyramid}!mips!unpc!rogerk
"Normal is not something to aspire to, it's something to get away from."
                                                                   -- J. Foster
Newsgroups: rec.scouting
From: stank@cbnewsl.cb.att.com (Stan Krieger)
Subject: Re: What is an Eagle Scout?
Organization: Summit NJ
Date: Mon, 14 Sep 1992 02:10:55 GMT

>I wish the BSA would realize that
>making a boy firstclass in a year and Eagle in two, will perhaps keep them
>interested longer, thus (hopefully) helping them learn more of what scouting
>has to teach, but it will nolonger produce as many top (read highly skilled,
>motivated, etc) "graduates" as it once did.

Our experience has been that Eagle is more like graduation, so the best
thing to do is make the boys wait until they are 16.

I have worked with several Eagle Scouts and candidates, and I feel BSA
should put a minimum age/grade on it.  The older boys seem to get a lot
more out of it and appreciate the finer points a lot more (like when
things don't go according to plan, or identifying contingencies and
planning for them).  Younger boys are just going through the motions.

>I would greatly appreciate hearing other opinions of the current BSA
>advancement system, and also opinions of the top ranks in scouting through
>out the world.

I approve of the First Class/First Year policy because they're basically
entry-level ranks, and boys shouldn't take more than a year to learn
and demonstrate the basic Scout skills and values.  But for Star, Life,
and Eagle, here are some changes I would make-

       	I see no problem with the 4 or 6 month leadership requirement,
	and the corresponding Troop/Patrol activity requirement,
	but I would add the following-

	STAR:  complete the 7th grade (or be within one month of
	completion) or be at least 12.5 years old.

	LIFE:  complete the 8th grade (or be within one month of
	completion) or be at least 13.5 years old.

	EAGLE: complete the  10th grade (or be within two months
	of completion) or be at least 15.5 years old.

This would get rid of any "race of Eagle" between classmates, it
could keep them longer, and it would let us better control who
is eligible for advancement.

One of the biggest issues that I encountered when I first became
Advancement Chairman 5 years ago was that one of the unwritten
requirements for early advancement to Star was to have a younger
brother (because Den Chief jobs were not arranged with the Troop;
instead, parents, who were often DL's or ADL's, would set their
Boy Scout son up as Den Chief of a younger brother's den).
-- 
Stan Krieger                     All opinions, advice, or suggestions, even
AT&T UNIX System Laboratories    if related to my employment, are my own.
Summit, NJ
smk@usl.com
Newsgroups: rec.scouting,alt.discrimination,chi.general,alt.atheism,alt.politics.homosexuality
From: madavis@nmsu.edu (Mark Davis)
Subject: Re: BofA and UW can now support discrimination against blacks and Jews
Organization: Computing Research Lab
	<1992Aug29.145536.3961@cbnewsl.cb.att.com> <+vhntkg@lynx.unm.edu>
	<hill.715369256@galena12> <1992Sep1.221719.9867@rtsg.mot.com>
	<hill.715462676@galena12> <1992Sep3.161048.24517@rtsg.mot.com>
	<hill.715545655@galena12> <mccalley.715556935@lead16>
Distribution: usa
Date: Tue, 8 Sep 1992 01:53:30 GMT

In article <mccalley.715556935@lead16> mccalley@rtsg.mot.com (Phil McCalley) writes:

 
   On the issue of whether or not it is learned, it seems to me that it must
   be.  Surely if it was genetic, it would have deselected itself along time
   ago.  It would be some trick for them to reproduce.  Unfortunately for 
   them, AIDS is deselecting them anyway.  Sad, but true.
   -- 
   ....................................................... Phil McCalley

This is a misrepresention of the effects of evolutionary pressures,
bad form and naive as hell.  The assumption that genes encode for
behaviors in a piece-meal manner (a gene for homosexual behavior, a
gene for alcoholism) is at fault.  The human genome is optimized
as a whole, not according to what Chetverikov termed a "mosaic" of
isolated elements.  The statement also relies on the assumption  
that good genes are "selected for", while in reality it is genetic
defects that are selected against.  Any organism with effective
metabolic wherewithall will survive sufficiently long to influence the
immediate community.

Furthermore, surfeit populations of non-reproducing males serve a 
valuable role in maintaining pressure on reproducing males to
provide a continuous demonstration to females that their mate
is, in fact, free from base metabolic errors in his genetic
structure.  This primarily applies to polygamous mammalian and
bird populations, however, and is not to be overly abstracted
with regard to human populations.

Finally, the misuse of evolutionary ideas has a long history of
producing hatred and arrogance.  I would suggest that one would
be better off justifying bad thinking like this with ad hoc
explanations based on fear and xenophobia, rather than using
pseudoscience.

Best Regards,

mark


--
*************************************************************
***   M. W. Davis,             madavis@NMSU.edu           ***
*************************************************************
***       "Crap and Art still toiling together"           ***
*************************************************************
From: 10710736@eng2.eng.monash.edu.au (ANDREW EDGAR)
Subject: Fund Raising Idea -Beer and Wine Night
Organization: Faculty of Engineering, Monash University 
Date: Thu, 10 Sep 1992 08:31:34 GMT

I am crew leader for the Grace Logan Rover Crew 1st Upwey only recently 
restarted so fund raising is a major consideration. Going through a list of 
done to death ideas we decided on a wine and cheese night which the Group 
hadn't done for some time.
We put the idea to a Cub father who was standing around and he said he'd 
rather be home with a beer.
BINGO.
A beer & wine night, which pleases most people and is a faily novel idea.

The point being that you can use a 'done to death' activity, change it and 
your probably on a winner. Probably because the above mentioned night hasn't 
gone on yet. But if an idea is similar to that which people know, 
changed to make it attractive so they go and find out what its like, you 
should do ok.

If anyone one is interested :
                       
                    Beer and Wine Tasting Night

                          3rd October

       (Vic election night so Vic's should be around Melb.)

                               $7

           (We had a fair amount of debate about price)

                        Upwey Scout Hall

(You don't know where Upwey is? Not surprising niether does anyone else. 
Its in outer eastern Melbourne. Do you know where Belgrave or Ferntree Gully 
is? Well its between them.)

                        Starts about 8.00 

  Andrew Patterson from Lancefield Wineries will be there with 9 wines

You can email me at the following address:
  
  10710736@eng2.eng.monash.edu.au

Well since I got that plug in ;-)  see you round like a deflated potato!?! 

 


            AA                                  EE
           AAAA                                EEEE
          AA  AA                              EE  EE
         AA    AA                            EE    EE
        AA      AA                          EE      EE
       AAAAAAAAAAAAWWWWW      WW      WWWWWEEEEEEEEEEEE
      AA   AAAA   AA   WW    WWWW    WW   EE
     AA      AAAA  AA   WW  WW  WW  WW   EE
    AA         AAAA AA   WWWW    WWWW   EE
   AA            AAAAAA   WW      WW   EEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE   SOME

Newsgroups: rec.scouting,alt.discrimination,chi.general,alt.atheism,alt.politics.homosexuality
From: rescorla@rtnmr.chem.yale.edu (Eric Rescorla)
Subject: Re: BofA and UW can now support discrimination against blacks and Jews
Organization: Rescorla for himself.
Distribution: usa
Date: Tue, 8 Sep 1992 00:05:13 GMT

In article <AWERLING.92Sep7173315@dante.nmsu.edu> awerling@nmsu.edu (WERLING) writes:
>In article <1992Sep4.182434.21206@cs.yale.edu> rescorla@rtnmr.chem.yale.edu (Eric Rescorla) writes:
>
>- In article <1992Sep4.033027.12445@auto-trol.com> katbea@auto-trol.com (Kathy Beatty) writes:
>- Hmm...
>- It strikes me that the claim that bigotry is "immoral" is every bit
>- as tenuous as the claim that homosexuality is "immoral". While
>- I agree that there is no support for the latter, neither do I
>- see support for the former.
> 
>Well, when bigotry hurts children, I'd call it immoral.
This from the man who proclaimed so loudly that there are no
absolutes??

In any case, you have simply repeated what Ms. Beatty asserted,
not provided any substantiation for the claim. Your repetition
of the claim does nothing to support it. Perhaps you would care
actually substantiate it?

-Ekr





-- 
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Eric Rescorla, DoD#431 (Nighthawk S)              rescorla@rtnmr.chem.yale.edu
Former chemist now CM400 mechanic                 ekr@eitech.com(preferred)
                       I will hack Unix for food.
From: cronin@en.ecn.purdue.edu (Fester the Penguin)
Newsgroups: rec.scouting
Subject: Re: Boards of Review
Date: 11 Sep 92 18:48:30 GMT
Organization: Purdue University Engineering Computer Network

In article <1709@necis.UUCP> mgodbout@necis.UUCP (Marc Godbout) writes:
>I've been told that when participating in a board of review, the reviewers
>should not spend any time grilling the scout on scout knowledge, but should
>more or less talk to him about his plans and goals.  I was wondering what other
>troops do.  What do you think the board of review is supposed to accomplish?
>Should we be preparing the scout for the Eagle board of review (whatever that
>is)?  How do you decide if the scout is ready or not for advancement?

At a Board Of Review, I usually asked first questions about Scouting
knowledge the Scout is supposed to have learned - the questions
depended on what merit badges/skill awards the Scout had earned toward
the rank he was being reviewed on. Then came the questions about
plans and goals, what does Scouting mean to you, what suggestions do
you have about the troop (If he has any, its a sign that he's thinking
about Scouting...)

In short - some of both.

Tom Cronin
Eagle Scout '88
Xref: sparky rec.scouting:2940 alt.discrimination:4233 chi.general:1053 alt.atheism:16796 alt.politics.homosexuality:5819
From: rescorla@rtnmr.chem.yale.edu (Eric Rescorla)
Newsgroups: rec.scouting,alt.discrimination,chi.general,alt.atheism,alt.politics.homosexuality
Subject: Re: BofA and UW can now support discrimination against blacks and Jews
Date: 8 Sep 92 23:55:44 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: Rescorla for himself.

In article <BuAA6E.3yo@acsu.buffalo.edu> omhoward@acsu.buffalo.edu (The God-Bitch Emperor of Snuggle Bunnies) writes:
>In <1992Sep8.230050.10290@cs.yale.edu> rescorla@rtnmr.chem.yale.edu (Eric Rescorla) writes:
>
>
>>Absolutely, but there is nothing to suggest that you would have
>>even the remotest clue as to whether your orientation is learned
>>or innate.
>
>     Either it's my life and if it isn't innate I still have the right
>to make whatever choices I choose to (so long as I hurt no one)
>without your (or anyone elses) interference...  Just as you can choose
>to be a chemist, I can choose to be gay (if it were a choice (which it isn't))
Did I ever say anything different?

Please, explain what led you to believe that I would interfere with
your choices.

And FYI. I'm not a chemist.
-Ekr



-- 
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Eric Rescorla, DoD#431 (Nighthawk S)              rescorla@rtnmr.chem.yale.edu
Former chemist now CM400 mechanic                 ekr@eitech.com(preferred)
                       I will hack Unix for food.
Newsgroups: rec.scouting,alt.discrimination,chi.general,alt.atheism,alt.politics.homosexuality
From: rescorla@rtnmr.chem.yale.edu (Eric Rescorla)
Subject: Re: BofA and UW can now support discrimination against blacks and Jews
Organization: Rescorla for himself.
Distribution: usa
Date: Fri, 11 Sep 1992 19:38:41 GMT

In article <AWERLING.92Sep11122915@dante.nmsu.edu> awerling@nmsu.edu (WERLING) writes:
>I've been asked to support my claim that telling a gay teen-ager
>s/he's immoral, sinful, sick, going to hell, etc. is IMMORAL.
>
>Basic evidence:  You're dealing with a kid.  You should NEVER try to
>make a kid feel bad about themselves.
More proof by blatant assertion.

>Unless, of course, you feel good about making a teenager commit
>suicide.
Emotional appeals will not have any effect on my, Mr. Werling.

Please substantiate your claim.
Your claim that you should NEVER try to make a kid feel bad about
themselves is no more supported than your claim that it is
immoral to tell a gay teenager that they are going to hell.

-Ekr

-- 
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Eric Rescorla, DoD#431 (Nighthawk S)              rescorla@rtnmr.chem.yale.edu
Former chemist now CM400 mechanic                 ekr@eitech.com(preferred)
                       I will hack Unix for food.
Xref: sparky rec.scouting:2851 alt.politics.homosexuality:5710
From: mycroft@hal.gnu.ai.mit.edu (Charles Hannum)
Newsgroups: rec.scouting,alt.politics.homosexuality
Subject: Re: Crossposting articles with rec.scouting (was Re: BofA and UW ...)
Date: 6 Sep 92 16:17:04 GMT
Article-I.D.: mintaka.1992Sep6.161704.7350
Organization: /etc/organization


In article <AWERLING.92Sep3152303@dante.nmsu.edu> awerling@nmsu.edu
(WERLING) writes:
>
> It has to do with scouting, therefore it's appropriate for the group.

rec.scouting != BSA

If you want to discuss BSA-related issues, perhaps a rec.scouting.bsa
group is appropriate.

-- 
 \   Charles Hannum, mycroft@ai.mit.edu
 /\  White heterosexual atheist male (WHAM) pride!
From: nelson@that_machine.Kodak.COM (Bruce D. Nelson)
Newsgroups: rec.scouting
Subject: Troop Management Software
Date: 10 Sep 92 13:23:34 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: Eastman Kodak Company

There are several troop management software packages advertised
in Scouting Magazine, and several others floating around BBS's.

What are your experiences with these packages? Are there any you would
specifically recommend or stay away from?

I'll summarize any private responses; however it would benefit the
most people if you post your responses.

Bruce Nelson
Committee Chairman Troop 3 Rochester NY Otetiana Council

--
Bruce Nelson                            | Phone: (716) 726-7890
Rochester Distributed Computer Services | Internet: nelson@kodak.com
Eastman Kodak Company                   |
Rochester, NY 14653-5221                |
Newsgroups: rec.scouting,alt.discrimination,alt.atheism,alt.politics.homosexuality
From: livesey@solntze.esd.sgi.com (Jon Livesey)
Subject: Re: BofA and UW can now support discrimination against blacks and Jews
Organization: sgi
Distribution: usa
Date: Tue, 8 Sep 92 22:49:32 GMT

In article <1992Sep8.170112.12953@blaze.cs.jhu.edu>, arromdee@jyusenkyou.cs.jhu.edu (Ken Arromdee) writes:
|> 
|> Obviously, Eric would believe that it would be wrong behavior; just not that
|> it's wrong because of the Golden Rule.  Eric's not saying it'd not be wrong
|> _at_all_, just disagreeing with one particular reason.

Sure, and he's wrong.   Consider two people:

Person A says:

    "If I were Gay, I would want them to coerce me to be straight,
    so the Golden Rule allows me to coerce you."

Person B says:

    "I want the freedom to say in which areas of my life I would
    be willing to accept coercion, so you should have the same 
    freedom."

Person B actually is applying the Golden Rule.   He's doing to
you what he would wish you to do to him, namely allowing you 
the same freedoms he wants for himself.

This is not what person A is doing.  Person A is claiming that
somehow the choices he makes in his life should determine the
choices you are allowed to make in your life.

jon. 
Newsgroups: rec.scouting,alt.discrimination,chi.general,alt.atheism,alt.politics.homosexuality
From: l.gudiksen@uws.edu.au
Subject: Fund Raising Ideas needed
Organization: University of Western Sydney, Macarthur
Date: Tue, 8 Sep 1992 21:27:26 GMT

G'day to all.
 
I have decided to post this to see if any people have some inovative ideas
for raising funds for their group that they may like to share.
 
I am from a group (as many properbly are) that are preesed for money to
equip the group. As (like most places) there is some competition from
other Non Profit groups to raise money aas suchthe amounts raised are limmited
and they are usualy only from involved families. They are also getting tired of
being asked to dip into there pockets al the time.
 
From looking around if an inovative idea is used you can pick up a lot of money
from outside the group.
 
An idea that had been used in Picton to raise money for a local chap who was
suffering from a fatal desease was to use the Council Swimming pool in the off
seasion let the water loose its chemicals get a truck load of trout and put
in the pool and have a fishing competition. Some also had been taged for extra
prizes. Charge admittion, provide catering, rent fishing gear, and get it all
sponsered. As a result they go state wide TV and radio publisity as well as
people came from all over to fish.
 
A great success due to being different. So if any one has any ideas like this
they would like to share with us either ideas that you may just be thinking
or ideas that you know have worked I would like to hear from you.
 
I will make a summary and post it for the rest to use if I get enough interest.
E-mail or post is fine. Best in scouting
 
|----------------------------------------------------------------------|
| Lars Gudiksen    (Assistant Scout Leader)          1st Picton Scouts |
|                                                                      |
|    Picton - 80Km south west of Sydney, New South Wales, AUSTRALIA    |
|......................................................................|
|       Postal c/o 79 Kent Road, Picton, N.S.W. AUSTRALIA   2571       |
|                                                                      |
| Email l.gudiksen@uws.edu.au   Ph (61-46) 20-3259 Fax (61-46) 26-6937 |
|----------------------------------------------------------------------|
Newsgroups: rec.scouting
From: anthropo@carina.unm.edu (Dominick V. Zurlo)
Subject: Re: Entertaining the boys
Date: Tue, 15 Sep 92 15:29:30 GMT
Organization: University of New Mexico, Albuquerque

In article <1992Sep15.143756.5725@kodak.kodak.com> dennett@sunshine.Kodak.COM (Charles R. Dennett) writes:
>I have a request to make.  I am one of the assistant Cubmasters for my
>two sons pack.  Our first pack meeting of the year is this Thursday
>night.  The way it usually works is that the Cubmaster takes the
>parents off to another room and gives them a pep talk about how we need
>their help during the year, etc.

Well, one game we'd do with the boys in our cub pack would be to have them 
each drw a card from a hat/bowl/etc.. with either a color, picture, or
a number, then they had to go around and find the match to their card.  
It's a simple game, but what it does is make them go around and introduce 
themselves to the other boys.  You can also do it in groups, for example, 
if you used pictures of animals, have the animals group together by 
types, mammals, reptiles, fish, etc... and you can offer prizes to the groups 
that got together quickest, most quietly, etc.  One variation I saw of this
was using the animals, and the boys couldn't talk, but had to act out 
their animal.  With boys in cubs, this usually gets them going a bit.  

Dominick V. Zurlo
Eagle Scout

Newsgroups: rec.scouting,alt.discrimination,chi.general,alt.atheism,alt.politics.homosexuality
From: dusek@rtsg.mot.com (James Dusek)
Subject: Re: BofA and UW can now support discrimination against blacks and Jews
Organization: Motorola Inc., Cellular Infrastructure Group
Distribution: usa
Date: Tue, 8 Sep 1992 16:25:40 GMT

rogerk@QueerNet.ORG (Roger B.A. Klorese) writes:
>In article <dusek.715885587@shale>, dusek@rtsg.mot.com (James P. Dusek) writes:
>|> 	Japanese were *NOT* put into concentration camps during WW2.
>|> You are falling for media hype. There is a big difference between
>|> a consentration camp and a detainment camp.
>And you're falling for America-Firster jingoistic bullshit.  Try asking people
>who were in the camps...

	Really, I missed the part where the japanese in the camps
talk about the ovens and gas chambers, can you post where these
are refered to?

>William F. Buckley's notion of isolation camps comes to mind...

	So, who is William F. Buckley?

James
Newsgroups: rec.scouting
From: mrayle@eng.clemson.edu (michael rayle)
Subject: Is there an archive out there for GIFs?
Reply-To: mrayle@eng.clemson.edu
Organization: College of Engineering, Clemson Univ.
Date: Fri, 11 Sep 1992 17:58:30 GMT


Hello, this is defintely not about policy, nor about peoples rights to 
be wrong...
 
I am wondering if anybody knows about an anonymous ftp site where there are
images of CSP's (Council Shoulder Patches) of OALF (Order of the Arrow Lodge
Flaps).  Maybe someone out there has access to a color scanner and can scan
their collection.  It would be neat to be able to show my collection without
ever having to pull out the patches (unless the trade is about to occur).
 
Just curious..
 
Mike Rayle
Troop 245 Taylors, SC
Blue Ridge Council, Upstate SC
OA Lodge 185

Newsgroups: rec.scouting,alt.discrimination,chi.general,alt.atheism,alt.politics.homosexuality