HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: ecsd@tfs.com (Eric C. S. Dynamic)
Subject: Re: same old same old
Organization: TRW Financial Systems
Date: Sat, 10 Oct 1992 07:13:27 GMT

This is just a bit re: exchange between Maggie and Dave.

Maggie:
>>It's human nature. Some of them would only give up the theory if
>>clinging to it caused the end of their career and the consequent
>>turmoil -- but tenure prevents such an occurrence. If they
>>invented the theory and it once achieved some popularity, they
>>are rewarded with endless attention for maintaining it. If they
>>are simply a follower, they are rewarded for continuing to follow
>>the theory with the positive approval of other loyal followers. 

Dave:
>This is simply, utterly, and demonstrably false.  In the case of physics,
>theories are discarded almost overnight when compelling evidence arrives.
>These occasions are waited for expectantly, and when a new experiment confirms
>the theory in some area that hasn't been tested, there is vast disappointment!
>Now, when an experiment appears to conflict with a theory which has already
>been tested and found valid in a particular domain, then the system is more
>complicated - someone's experiment may have erred, and the work must be
>repeated until the discrepancy is understood.  But what you say is basically
>not true in my experience.

Maybe scientists are growing up, along with the culture at large. Theories
are discarded overnight when compelling evidence arrives. But there is a
minor point - I hear Kuhn bandied here somewhere - the work that produces
the compelling evidence has to get done, and ego-bound people have often
interfered with even the discussion that work [to explore an alternative]
should be done. You don't know if you don't try, and people who won't let
you try presumably don't want you to know - amongst other motivations.
Newsgroups: alt.astrology
From: ramhcl@suncap.Corp.Sun.COM (Ramprakash Narayanaswamy)
Newsgroups: alt.astrology
Subject: please recommend books
Date: 12 Oct 92 19:16:39 GMT
Reply-To: ramhcl@suncap.Corp.Sun.COM (Ramprakash Narayanaswamy)
Organization: Sun Microsystems, Inc.  Mt. View, Ca.
NNTP-Posting-Host: suncap.corp.sun.com

I am looking for some academic book(s) which would give me the formulae
for calculating the PLANETARY POSITIONS and HOUSE CUSPAL POSITIONS.

please let me know the Title / Author.

Any help in this regard is highly appreciated.

Feel free to e-mail me at "ramhcl@suncap.corp.sun.com"

Thanks in advance,

Ram.
Newsgroups: alt.astrology
From: deb@wiliki.eng.hawaii.edu (David Barrett)
Subject: Re: Dave's chart, but where's Dave? Oh, over there, a-bashing.
Organization: University of Engineering, College of Engineering
Date: Sun, 11 Oct 1992 20:27:57 GMT


> chart - so where's a theme in MY chart. Near as I can tell the
>only recurrent theme is I'm insane. Dissociated - I guess so I can easily
>diagnose cross-currents in other people.


Eric, I have had three friends in the last year within a week of your birth 
and plenty others in the same year.  Your sat/mars conj is a big theme and
if you want to know more just say "boo"!

A window version of any astro program would be a great aid to us all - go
for it.

dB
Newsgroups: alt.astrology
From: ecsd@tfs.com (Eric C. S. Dynamic)
Subject: Re: same old same old (and I mean it) - so deep-six it
Organization: TRW Financial Systems
Date: Sat, 17 Oct 1992 03:51:48 GMT

kring@efes.physik.uni-kl.de (Thomas Kettenring) writes:
>I can't let this stand as it is.

Mr. Kettenring, please list the titles of any books about astrology you have
read within the last ten years. And please indicate the approximate date when
you last had your astrological chart interpreted for you by a professional
astrologer. My further reponse to you will be conditioned by this information.
From: agray@axion.bt.co.uk (Andy Gray)
Newsgroups: alt.astrology
Subject: Re: Jupiter enters Libra tomorrow !!
Date: 16 Oct 92 09:12:27 GMT
Organization: BT Laboratories

In article <1992Oct14.202037.29620@hpcvca.cv.hp.com>, lynng@hpcvcdu.cv.hp.com (Lynn Gibson) writes:
|> So what is this supposed to mean, Jupiter in Libra?  I am sagittarius

I would be interested to know. I've read the standard texts on planets in signs,
but would be interested in knowing the effect it has with respect to individual
signs. As a Piscean, it has now moved into my 7th sign. I'm curious as a new
opportunity has come my way. Unfortunately Jupiter is transiting my 10th house
(placidus) and the opportunity is more friendship/humanitarian which is more
akin to 11th house placing, ie doesn't quite fit the jigsaw.

Andy Gray
From: Carole@brownvm (Carolyn Egan)
Newsgroups: alt.astrology
Subject: Re: Astrology Discussion Topics No. 1
Followup-To: alt.astrology
Date: 9 Oct 1992 16:49:29 GMT
Organization: Brown University
Distribution: world
NNTP-Posting-Host: cis_staff-kntx54.cis.brown.edu

In article <1992Oct8.193752.29642@u.washington.edu>,
mrcarl@carson.u.washington.edu (Mark Carlson) wrote:
> 
> Here's the result of the survey regarding house systems used by people:
>
> Carolyn
> -------
> Also likes to focus on "angles, aspects and quadrant placements more than
> the individual houses."
I do use Koch basically but when planets are cuspy I will run a Placidus on
the screen ( I have Chartwheels, an excellent Astrolabe program) and make
the notations.  I am not consistant in my analysis because each person IS
an individual and I am flexible in my interpretation.  If a person knows
nothing about astrology then the session will be geared to the level of
his/her age and ability to accept the information the chart can provide. 
Some people do not want to know about themselves but want to know what is
coming up in the year ahead for themselves.  I don't question why; I don't
force a natal analysis; I don't club them to death with information and
judgements.  I read and interpret charts.  That is what an Astrologer
should be doing.

I ran my chart in Koch & Placidus.  No planets changes houses and the
interceptions remained the same.  I have not tried to interpret the other
house systems and I have not studied why they are different.  I hopt to do
that with my course in Uranian Astrology coming up later this month. 
Regards, Carol

> To those of you who don't rely on houses, can you tell us how you do
> interpretations of charts and where you focus your attention in the
> birthchart data?
> 
> Mark
>
From: ellie@ora.com (Ellie Cutler)
Newsgroups: alt.astrology
Subject: Re: grand cross
Date: 9 Oct 92 15:11:55 GMT
Organization: O'Reilly & Associates, Inc.

In article <Bvp8uJ.124@exnet.co.uk> s0xjg@exnet.co.uk (Xavier Gallagher) writes:
>A grand cross is forming in the signs of Aries, Libra etc.  The planets
>involved are Mars, Moon, Sun, Neptune and Uranus.  All five planets will
>be angular at the same time twice in the day.  Once when Aries rises, the
>other when Libra rises.
>
>Any comments/ideas?
>

Well, as someone with 7 cardinal planets, things are sure activating,
speeding up and crashing around in my life!  At work, at home, in my
music, emotionally, *everywhere*.  To help get through it all, I joined 
Gold's gym (an Aries, after all...)

And, to add my .02 to the Mars discussion, I have known several Mars in
Libra women, who attest to the "driving with the brakes on" description
of that placement.   Myself, I get very irritable when Mars travels
through Libra, as it hits all my cardinal planets with squares,
oppositions, and a few conjuctions.  One year (back in 81 or so), it
kept retrograding/directing and stayed in Libra for just about the
whole year.  It was awful - I never felt a moment's inner peace.

I have Mars in Scorpio, which I find gives me an amazing physical
stamina and survival instinct.

Glad to see some real astrology talk here for a change! 

 - Ellie

Aries:  Sun, Mercury, Jupiter (eternal optimist)
Cancer: Moon, Uranus  (conjuct - a whopper!)
Libra:  Saturn, Neptune (peace, love, and tie dye)

Venus in Pisces trine Mars in Scorpio (a nice mix)
Pluto in Leo
-- 
        Ellie Cutler

        ellie@ora.com               
        uunet!ora!ellie
From: richardg@ssd.intel.com (Richard Griffiths)
Subject: Re: Computer Chart Inquiry 
Organization: Supercomputer Systems Divison, Intel Corp.
Distribution: usa
Date: Tue, 13 Oct 1992 22:05:40 GMT

In article <1992Oct11.151134.1028@wam.umd.edu>, yumei@wam.umd.edu (yumei) writes:
|> 
|> Hello everybody,
|> 
|>      I remember someone once gave a name and address of a place where one 
|> can get "beautiful" computer chart for about $25.  I regret not having
|> written it down.  Could someone with the info. email me?  Thanks.
|> 
The one I know about is only $12, and comes bound with aproximately 25 pages
of interpretation.  The address is:

		A.I.T.
		P.O. Box 6595 
		Beaverton, OR 97007

Just send them your date time and place of birth along with a check for $12.

Richard
Newsgroups: alt.astrology
From: ecsd@tfs.com (Eric C. S. Dynamic)
Subject: Re: same old same old
Organization: TRW Financial Systems
Date: Sat, 17 Oct 1992 03:42:56 GMT


Maggie writes:
>>In rn, type "g rec.org.mensa"; once in the group, type 
>>/Astrology: Scientific Research/h

casper@vxcrna.cern.ch (CASPER,DAVI./PPE) writes:
>I checked but I'm afraid it has vanished by now.  I was amused to find you
>("L. McPherson") confused with the swimsuit model ("Elle MacPherson") in
>rec.org.mensa though...

I can repost that at will.
The confusion is yours; references to Elle MacPherson were jokes.
Newsgroups: alt.astrology
From: casper@vxcrna.cern.ch (CASPER,DAVI./PPE)
Subject: Re: another case study in hatefulness by the "open-minded"
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41    
Organization: European Organization for Nuclear Research, CERN
Date: Wed, 7 Oct 1992 15:08:00 GMT

In article <1992Oct7.093426.43658@kuhub.cc.ukans.edu>, sloane@kuhub.cc.ukans.edu (Bob Sloane) writes...
>In article <7OCT199202095805@vxcrna.cern.ch>,
> casper@vxcrna.cern.ch (CASPER,DAVI./PPE) writes:
>> Wrong.  I don't feel I have a duty.  I'm just here for fun and enlightenment.
> 
>Let me get this straight. You ENJOY annoying people?

No, I'm afraid you've got it wrong.  People are annoyed because I disagree
with them while seeking enlightenment and interesting discussion.  Then they
work themselves up into a rage and complain about having worked themselves up
into a rage.

>There is a newsgroup specifically designed for skeptical articles such
>as yours, sci.skeptic. If you must post skeptical articles, at least
>have the courtesy to post them in the proper newsgroup.

And there is another newsgroup specifically designed for articles about
astrology such as mine, alt.astrology.

I see you are yet another advocate of promoting diversity through segregation.


Dave
From: s0xjg@exnet.co.uk (Xavier Gallagher)
Newsgroups: alt.astrology
Subject: Re: MARS
Date: 11 Oct 92 19:10:28 GMT
Organization: ExNet Systems Ltd Public Access News, London, UK

In article <1992Oct10.061747.5157@tfs.com> ecsd@tfs.com (Eric C. S. Dynamic) writes:
>s0xjg@exnet.co.uk (Xavier Gallagher) writes:
>>
>>Cancer Mars is definitly weakened.  Think about your own words.  You can only

>I wonder if you have had a person with Mars in Cancer angry with you.
>Weakened - pfui. Mars is Mars.

Compare Mars through the signs.  That is were there idea of detriment,
anexaltation and so on come about.   Mars is Mars *in* signs.
"pfui" indeed!
>
>>I don't mean to knock you,  we all have to feel good about ourselves in way or

>
>Did Stacey say it was *great*? Just that since she can't change it,

So what would Stacey say about a planet in detriment.  That it is as fab as
a planet in exaltation?


>>As for my Mars in Libra....It has made me hamdsome,socialable and (believe
>>it or not) charming.  Just imagine how much *more* I could get done if it was 
>>in Capricorn?  All this fluctuating energy......Argh.  You see for all it is
>>in detriment and for all I like it I still see how a situation could be better.
>
>
>>Mars in Cancer is ineffectual.  Accept it that and you might really have
>> accepted your Mars.
>
>By that token, Sun in Cancer is ineffectual too. Are Cancers ineffectual,
>for being Cancers?

Deliberate fogging of the issue.

You *know* that the sun falls in Libra and is in detriment in Aquarius *AND*
you know that the sun does not represent *action* and *energy* the way Mars
does.

You attempt to confuse the issues by dragging all Cancerians in 
and by mix up mars and the sun.  What sort of astrologer are you?  Do you
really want to look like you do not know what you are talking about?

Xavier Gallagher
Newsgroups: alt.astrology
From: deb@wiliki.eng.hawaii.edu (David Barrett)
Subject: Re: another case study in hatefulness by the "open-minded"
Organization: University of Engineering, College of Engineering
Date: Sun, 11 Oct 1992 02:05:08 GMT

>>Dave
>>
>Reminds me of a kid with a sharp axe lookin' to cut down every tree in sight 
that has worth and need to someone else just to prove their worth
>and get attention.  They use to call these people woodcutters but today the
>word would be closer to despoiler.  Can't stop em from cutting down the trees
>but a hope that someday remorse and deed would plants a few redeeming seeds.
>  
>
>"Oh Lord make my words sweet and tender
>for I may have need to eat them later"
>

 I think I got it right this time - (who's axing my wires?)

dB

Newsgroups: alt.astrology
From: mjp@itd.dsto.gov.au
Newsgroups: alt.astrology
Subject: Re: Full Moon
Date: 8 Oct 92 15:38:18 GMT

mrcarl@carson.u.washington.edu (Mark Carlson) writes:

>There could be another factor involved also:  more light during a full
>moon for people to see by.

This does not explain the dramatic and statistically
significant increase in suiciedes at this time, nor the
increase in my libido (I can always guess when the full moon
is happening).

Michael
--
Michael Pilling				Phone: +61 8 259 7017
Software Engineering Group		Fax: +61 8 259 5980
Information Technology Division		Telex: AA82799
DSTO Australia				michael_pilling@itd.dsto.gov.au
From: mrcarl@carson.u.washington.edu (Mark Carlson)
Newsgroups: alt.astrology
Subject: Astrology Discussion Topic No. 2
Summary: Planets in late degrees and progressions
Date: 9 Oct 92 16:50:17 GMT
Organization: University of Washington

Recently, some gave their response to the question of whether a planet
that was in 29 degrees of a sign reflects the qualities of both signs in
proximity to each other.  As a follow-up to that question, what do people
feel about the strength of a planet in 29 degrees with regards to
progressions?  Does the natal planet and sign still remain the most
important factor throughout a persons life or does the fact that the
planet progesses into the next sign weigh significantly of the
interpretation of the chart.  Of course we're going to all have different
opinions about this, but let's give some of our own experiences and share
the information with others.

Mark
Newsgroups: alt.astrology
From: skinny@board8.uucp (skinny)
Subject: hooey
Organization: board8
Date: Thu, 8 Oct 92 00:37:37 GMT

From skinny Wed Oct  7 17:29:09 1992
Return-Path: <skinny>
Received: by  (4.0/SMI-4.0)
	id AA08758; Wed, 7 Oct 92 17:29:07 PDT
Date: Wed, 7 Oct 92 17:29:07 PDT
From: skinny (skinny)
Message-Id: <9210080029.AA08758@>
To: skinny
Status: OR

 12 unevenly spaced celetial bodies don't change anything. Astrology
is/was/will-always-be hooey.
 Once, when I was young, I put a tooth under my pillow, but didn't
tell my parents and discovered one of life's truths. Learning the sordid
truth about Santa soon followed.
 Funny, I never was lame enough to believe in astrology - and I was a
plenty goofy kid.

 - -  -  -   -   - <* BOINK! *>

 Ouch!
 Ok! You guys were right. A brick was just thrown at my head and (being
that it became a celestial body) it had a profound affect on me as it
struck, thus proving once and for all, astrology is for real.

 Now my problem is other celestial bodies. Why just some? What about
artificial satellites? Or are they missing the secret rays? How about
passing trains? If position is important wouldn't my horrorscope be
different in Boise than in Barstow? Does my horrorscope change if I
stand on my head? (I can't check it until the wound heals)
 Also, wouldn't this all also apply to other animals? Do my cats need
forecasts? 
 What about the conventional laws of physics? Wouldn't that equal and
opposite reaction thing apply here? If the moon affects me, then I 
must be affecting the moon. The feeling of power is overwhelming!

 Well, I better go check my horrorscope so I can know what sort of a
day I'm having. 

 thank you.


Newsgroups: alt.astrology
From: "jim kane" <jim.kane@canrem.com>
Subject: aspect interpretation
Reply-To: "jim kane" <jim.kane@canrem.com>
Organization: Canada Remote Systems
Distribution: alt
Date: 12 Oct 92 10:03:00 EST

Tom Chapin commented;
TC>In the US, it has been traditional to make the houses appear equal
TC>while letting the sign size float, but in Europe they tend to use
TC>a system which would appear more normal to you and me which keeps
TC>the signs stable and lets the house size float.  I suspect that deep
TC>within the mists of history, some astrology publisher sold chart
TC>forms of that shape, and astrologers all went along...

   I think you're probably right. When I first started studying
   astrology this was the type of chart I used. Not very holistic, is
   it?

TC>Those who interpret a chart mainly by sign and house placement find
TC>that chart form easy to work with, not to mention very easy to fill
TC>out,

    In other words, beginners. But even beginners should'nt use this
    (US) chart, as it does not give you a view of the *whole* chart
    interaction, visibly.

TC> while those who emphasize aspects prefer the European form.
TC>With the advent of charts made by computer rather than by hand, the
TC>European form is likely to become more popular.

    Ahh... Progress!

   I prefer the charts that have all twelves signs, 360 degrees, visible
   on the outer circle. It's helps us keep in mind that *everybody* has
   all twelves signs in their chart. The marked 360 degrees also shows
   the proper angular relationships (aspects)  between planets at a
   glance.  A must when studying a chart is to draw in coloured aspect
   lines.  I use;

                 Squares - red    Oppositions - yellow
                 conjunctions - red  sextiles - blue  trines - green
                 inconjuncts - orange.

   Smaller aspects (septiles, etc.) I would plot on another chart.
---
  SLMR 2.0  Its a small world,but I wouldnt want to have to paint it.
--
Canada Remote Systems  - Toronto, Ontario
World's Largest PCBOARD System - 416-629-7000/629-7044
Newsgroups: alt.astrology
From: ecsd@tfs.com (Eric C. S. Dynamic)
Subject: Re: same old same old - correction to cancellation notice
Organization: TRW Financial Systems
Date: Fri, 9 Oct 1992 14:05:41 GMT

The cancelled message was <1992Oct9.113524.14911@tfs.com>, not the
article cited. There was only a 90 minute window on it, thank god.
Newsgroups: alt.astrology
From: ecsd@tfs.com (Eric C. S. Dynamic)
Subject: Re: MARS
Organization: TRW Financial Systems
Date: Sat, 10 Oct 1992 06:56:56 GMT

s0xjg@exnet.co.uk (Xavier Gallagher) writes:
>ecsd@tfs.com (Eric C. S. Dynamic) writes:
>>Yeah - but there's no point in giving disabling information.
>>I read out of Isabel Hickey, for myself - Jupiter squared Saturn - is a
>>"last chance" lifetime. I have Venus/Pisces/12 - I shat bricks for days,

>I was not suggesting that you knock your clients teeth out and then break their
> jaws.  I was just saying that Good News astrologers are basically *dishonest*.
>It is unpleasant but true.  You can slant the information but calling good good
>and calling bad good is just a load of rubbish.

Hmm. This is simply solved by pointing out that you have already given these
people a name: "good-news astrologers". Good-news parents suck too, you're
right.
Newsgroups: alt.astrology
From: cam@castle.ed.ac.uk (Chris Malcolm)
Newsgroups: alt.astrology
Subject: Re: same old same old
Date: 9 Oct 92 18:17:25 GMT
Organization: Edinburgh University

In article <9OCT199212410150@vxcrna.cern.ch> casper@vxcrna.cern.ch (CASPER,DAVI./PPE) writes:

>This is simply, utterly, and demonstrably false.  In the case of physics,
>theories are discarded almost overnight when compelling evidence arrives.

This is simply, utterly, and demonstrably false. How long was it
before Newton's "magical" notion of gravity as an instantaneous effect
at a distance was accepted by every physicist? How long was it before
Einstein's relativity was accepted by every physicist? How long was
the period when every observation and experiment that confirmed
Einstein's predictions was determinedly "explained away" by die-hard
Newtonians? Why did Kuhn suggest, in his theory of scientific
revolutions based largely on the history of physics, that in
many cases the die-hards never convert to the new ideas, and that one
has to wait for them actually to die before a new paradigm is
generally accepted?

I wonder why it is that the people who pose as hard-headed sceptical
scientists in groups like sci.skeptic, alt.astrology, etc., are so
often so astonishingly ignorant about science?
-- 
Chris Malcolm    cam@uk.ac.ed.aifh          +44 (0)31 650 3085
Department of Artificial Intelligence,    Edinburgh University
5 Forrest Hill, Edinburgh, EH1 2QL, UK                DoD #205
From: stacey@aardvark.ucs.uoknor.edu (Stacey B. Martin)
Subject: Glad it's not mine
Originator: news@essex.ecn.uoknor.edu
Date: Mon, 12 Oct 1992 14:32:41 GMT
Organization: AUS

	I have the chart info I promised. It was read to me over the
	phone, so the planet sequence is out of order. This chart belongs
	to a woman; she's probably about 35 now. I can't wait to see
	what you guys have to say. :-)

	Houses:
		Asc  2vir3
		2nd  26vir4
		3rd  25lib4
		4th  28scor3
		5th  2cap3
		6th  4aquar2

	Planets:
		moon 22tau
		uran 1 leo
		pluto 28 leo
		jup 1 vir
		nep		0 scor
		mars 19 scor
		sat 28 scor
		sun 3 cap
		merc 16 cap 
		venus 2 aquar

	Have fun.

	Stacey
From: tvp@gibdo.engr.washington.edu
Newsgroups: alt.astrology
Subject: Re: Astrolog program
Date: 13 Oct 92 19:19:20 GMT
Organization: clearer than blir

In article <1992Oct13.165559.17859@morwyn.uucp> forrie@morwyn.uucp (Forrest Aldrich) writes:
>I've recently retrieved the files for astrolog 2.30 (why aren't they
>in a *.tar.Z archive?) and compiled them... 
>
>Even though there was a correction to change a couple of variables,
>I'm still getting the Bus Error - core dumped message, and astrolog 
>won't work. (and I've no luck in corresponding with the author)
>
>My platform is:  AT&T 3b1, 4 meg RAM, 68010 processor, using GCC.  I've
>never had this problem with the previous versions of astrolog, and am
>wondering if anyone has solved this dilemma or could help me do so... I
>would appreciate it greatly!
>
>ALSO:  I'm wondering if there are any programs out there which will generate
>accurate Ephemeris and Table of Houses for astrolgical use?  I'm assuming that
>the companies which publish the hardcopy Ephemeris books use a proprietary
>program to make these calculations...  further info on this would also
>be much appreciated,

In fact your assumption is incorrect. Michelson's ephemeris clearly
states the journals from which he gets planetary formulae and that he
gets moon positions from Naval Observatory tapes. This is all public
domain information... I suppose his *source* code is copyrighted but
that doesn't stop anyone else from coding up the same thing. I'm
regularly amazed by the kinds of things that people in the world
consider "a big secret". It's no secret. Just takes some digging.

-- Tad Perry   Internet:    tvp@gibdo.engr.washington.edu
               CompuServe:  70402,3020
               NIFTY-Serve: GBG01266
From: EJAHC@CUNYVM.BITNET
Newsgroups: alt.astrology
Subject: Re: MARS
Date: 4 Oct 92 19:47:04 GMT
Organization: City University of New York/ University Computer Center

Eek! Mars stationary directly over my midheaven.... I think there may be a
teensy bit of drama ahead...