HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: thomsen@spf.trw.com (Mark Thomsen)
Subject: Re: Sun OR NeXT?! - help
Organization: TRW Inc., Redondo Beach, CA
Distribution: usa
Date: Wed, 7 Oct 92 18:07:45 GMT

The approach I have recommended verbally seems to work
sometimes. I share it with you.

First approach the 'boss' with the rational man demeanor
(they like it; shoot, I'm a boss some days and I like it):

1) Ask what it is expected of you and describe what you
   could do, in addition, with suitable equipment.

2) Actually make the tradeoff. If the NeXTSTEP platform
   is the right choice, present the facts.

What we use to get NeXT's on the desktop are:

1) A NeXTstation (mono or color) is cost effective.
   (This is true if you need lots of NeXTSTEP and
   the power level offered by NeXT hardware).
2) Network compatible with the LAN (TCP/IP/NFS/YP).
3) File compatible with local Mac and Sun apps.
4) Email compatible with the local standards.
5) Whip out prototypes of ideas/apps most quickly.
6) Learning industrial OOP, a technology important to
   out future in software development and integration.
7) NeXT is a player (one of the top five Unix workstation
   vendors).
8) NeXTSTEP will be on Intel 486 platforms.
9) NeXTSTEP apps tend to be priced like PC or Mac apps
   (factor of 2-3 times cheaper than Sun apps, and
   superior quality).

Then I show a demonstration.

NeXT is in the adoption stage where visionaries are buying
the systems to gain a competitive edge and have connected
the NeXT advantages to their understanding of their needs.
Most 'bosses' are mainstreamers, not visionaries. What you
need to convince (in my experience and most humble opinion)
is that NeXT is not too far from the mainstream (points 2,
3, 4, 5, 7), is not an expensive indulgence (points 1, 9),
and will give the organization a peak into the almost
certain future in a gentle way (points 5, 6, 8). You
won't get a lot of NeXTs bought this way, but until NeXT is
a mainstream product ... maybe it is correct.

I post this in case anyone else might make use of this.

Mark R. Thomsen
From: scott@nic.gac.edu (Scott Hess)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.advocacy
Subject: Naming the new machine.
Date: 7 Oct 92 13:09:00 GMT
Organization: Gustavus Adolphus College

Some people have been poking fun at the rumored new NeXT machine,
the "Nitro".  This is basically an extension of the fun poked at
"Turbo" back when it was announced.  It is and was deserved (at
least now we know how you top the "Turbo" moniker), but ...

Yesterday I got my October BYTE in the mail.  One of the new beasts
out there is an Apple Mac "home" computer.  Name?

    The Mac Performa

NOT!  "Dynamito", "Explosiva", "Quickala", "Fastiva", "Lightspeeda".
Sigh.  I thought only car manufacturers where this foolish.  Why
don't we ever see _truly_ descriptive made-up names, like "Poketa",
"Crasholia", "Deceasia", "Crappia", "Failura", "Bankruptia",
"Monopolia".

Well, hopefully they'll find out that "Performa" mean "Dickhead"
in Swedish.  Or something of that caliber.  Then we can toss it in
the Urban Legend File.



BTW, these "Performas" apparently have a "User Stupid" interface
shell, which works to keep your children (or roomates, in my case)
from gleefully dropping all of your work into the trash and then
being mesmerized by the various animations which go on.  Perhaps
NeXT needs to build one of those and pre-install it on their systems
so as to curtail lovely questions like "There's this big 'ol file
in /private/vm, and I don't know what it does.  Can I delete it?",
or the ever-popular "Can I delete /odmach since I don't have an OD
drive?"  [Those of you who think to claim that NeXT developed such
an interface shell a couple years back and called it NeXTSTEP,
please go soak your heads.]

BTW2, what with "The Naming of the Slab", I propose a new name for
the original slabs, like the one under my monitor.  Based on the
relative speeds (well, comparing to a "Nitro"), it's "The NeXTstation
Turtle".

Later,
--
scott hess <shess@ssesco.com>       <A port is a port, of course, of course>
12901 Upton Avenue South, #326  Burnsville, MN 55337 (612) 895-1208 Anytime!
<You praise me with faint damns, the dragon growled.  -Castle Roogna, Xanth>
From: maurices@spock.dis.cccd.edu (Maurice Shihadi)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.advocacy
Subject: Need info on NeXT's statiscal apps.
Date: 13 Oct 92 04:06:05 GMT
Organization: Coast Community College District, Costa Mesa, CA

I have a friend who is a statistician at a University back east
and I want to encourage her to buy a NeXTstation.  Her husband
is also a doctor in emergency medicine.  Can people in these fields
send me references and/or reference materials so that I can formulate
a good argument to buy a Nextstation for their home use.  I know 
nothing about statistics and would very much like to know where to 
start.

sincerely,

maurices

P.S.  I do know a bit about NeXT in my field of music so stating
obvious resources are not necessary.  Thanks.


 
Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.advocacy
From: carsten@pizza.fb10.tu-berlin.de
Subject: Re: NeXTStep : -) , Wind/X11 :-(   [was: In BYTE (NeXT) ]
Reply-To: carsten@pizza.fb10.tu-berlin.de
Organization: ZRZ/TU-Berlin
Date: Thu, 15 Oct 1992 23:37:11 GMT

In article <1992Sep29.164010.434@prim> prim!dave@germany.eu.net (Dave  
Griffiths) writes:
 
 
 
>  
>  There is a third possibility: have a consistent user interface across  
all
>  applications but, by the magic of shared libraries, allow the look and  
feel
>  to be customized by the user.
>  
>  Dave Griffiths

Sounds fine for most of us, but have you thought of the horror that this  
might yield to those who have to deal costumers on the phone what to do?  
Or what about using someone elses machine? At least functionality should  
be the same on all machines, and I don't believe, that merely cosmetical  
changes would be worth the effort. For example, I think a developer should  
be able to rely on the color of his windows borders.

Carsten
From: aberno@godel.questor.wimsey.bc.ca (Anthony Berno)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.advocacy
Subject: Re: 4.0 Wish (Now: Sun Flame!)
Date: 9 Oct 92 21:17:51 GMT
Reply-To: aberno@godel.questor.wimsey.bc.ca

In article <1992Oct3.152528.19061@csus.edu> eps@futon.SFSU.EDU (Eric P.  
Scott) writes:
> You are of course, familiar with the "Greyboard" app?  Similar
> programs on other platforms cost big bucks (and get massive press
> coverage) ... we've already got it for free.  What's all the fuss
> about "mail enabled" applications?  We've had that for ... how
> long?  Multimedia?  Object-oriented?  We've had those since Day 1.
> 
> These aren't extraordinary capabilities for us--we take them for
> granted.  When the competition tries to play catch-up--that's
> news!

Tell me about it! The local Sun rep was at my university's "Computing for  
Radical Academics" fair the other day, showing off a Greyboard-clone  
workgroup tool like it was the hottest thing since Hell. Boy, was I  
steamed. When I told him about Greyboard, he just shrugged...

Oh well, I consoled myself by planting myself at the NeXT booth like I was  
a sales rep, (the real ones didn't mind) and spent a couple of hours  
demoing the great features of NeXTSTEP to passersby. One guy wanted a  
rendering of an olive inside a martini glass; thanks to Perspective (beta)  
I was able to oblige him right then and there. :-)  

I also had a long chat with the Sun guy about the Distributed Objects  
Everywhere program. It was sort of neat, although it was a flagrant abuse  
of the word "object". The critical question was *when* - he said that it  
would be gaining prominence in "the next two to four years". 

Whoopie. Boy, I'm excited. (I was, of course, politely interested at the  
time...)

Enough time for CEO's to wake up and smell the NeXTs....

(Yes, I'm in a flaming mood. I just spent another two hours trying to work  
with the %&$^%#* Sparc 2's in the VLSI lab at my university. I have yet to  
see a *single* app on a Sun that I would call "nice", let alone  
"excellent". I've learned to HATE the *%$(#* machines. I'd even rather  
work with Windows! They are also, subjectively, way slower than my  
standalone NeXT.)

Oooh! I think I got religion now!

-Anthony
Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.advocacy
From: jon@afs.com
Subject: Re: Make it Cheap
Distribution: USA
Date: Thu, 8 Oct 1992 20:19:54 GMT

In article <1992Sep30.205333.27125@leland.Stanford.EDU>  
spagiola@frinext.stanford.edu (Stefano Pagiola) writes:
> The problem with this argument is that it prevents many enthusiastic  
> young programmers from cutting their teeth on the machine.  Instead,  
> they putter about on a cheap DOS box and write windows apps.  Once  
> they've moved up in the world and have the money to buy the power,  
> they're less likely to make the move to a different system because of  
> all the human capital they've invested in developing their  
> DOS/Windows/mac skills.

Personally, I'd prefer if there were lots of companies using end-user NeXT's, and a bunch of constantly and profitably employed NeXT programmers, while the DOS/Mac heads do their DOS/Mac stuff. Rather than a bloated market of NeXT programmers. 
--
Jonathan Hendry  Anderson Financial Systems (programmer-in-exile)
reply-to: hendryjw@duvm.ocs.drexel.edu
e. Where's the future in that? But he doesn't complain about Apple. Hell, he applied for a job.

Computers become obsolete.
Companies stop supporting old machines.
It happens.
Learn to deal with it or get some therapy.

--
Jonathan Hendry  programmer-in-exile Anderson Financial Systems
reply-to:hendryjw@duvm.ocs.drexel.edu <no nextmail, it'and write windows apps.  Once  
> they've moved up in the world and have the money to buy the power,  
> they're less likely to make the move to a different system because of  
> all the human capital they've invested in developing their  
> DOS/Windows/mac skills.

Personally, I'd prefer if there were lots of companies using end-user NeXT's, and a bunch of constantly and profitably employed NeXT programmers, while the DOS/Mac heads do their DOS/Mac stuff. Rather than a bloated market of NeXT programmers. 
--
Jonathan Hendry  Anderson Financial Systems (programmer-in-exile)
reply-to: hendryjw@duvm.ocs.drexel.edu
e. Where's the future in that? But he doesn't complain about Apple. Hell, he applied for a job.

Computers become obsolete.
Companies stop supporting old machines.
It happens.
Learn to deal with it or get some therapy.

--
Jonathan Hendry  programmer-in-exile Anderson Financial Systems
reply-to:hendryjw@duvm.ocs.drexel.edu <no nextmail, it's an IBM)
From: piro@dollar.unice.fr (Oreste Piro)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.advocacy
Subject: Re: NeXTstep Terminals
Date: 7 Oct 92 17:05:08 GMT
Reply-To: piro@ecu.unice.fr
Organization: University of Nice Sophia-Antipolis
NNTP-Posting-Host: dollar.unice.fr

> Wow!!! That really are prices we just can dream of. I won't recall the '
> European prices' debate, but WE (that's to say in Germany) have to pay  
like 
> this ($ prices are just calculated with 1,50 DM = $1).
> 
> 
> NeXTstation 8/105	12000 DM = $8000
> 
> "very cheap" 486DX	 3000 DM = $2000
> NeXTstep 486	       ~ 2000 DM > $1000
> 			          -------
> 			  	   $3000

Come and buy in Spain next year :) The list there is 600,000 pts ($ 6000)  
for the 8/105 but they give
you a 40% discount if you buy 3 from the university.
In France the price is about the same. 30000 FF. ($ 6000).

--
| Oreste Piro     piro@ecu.unice.fr         |                       |
| Institut Non Lineaire de Nice		    |   Ubi bene            |
| Universite de Nice - Sophia Antipolis     |                       |
| Parc Valrose, 06034 Nice Cedex, France    |         ibi patria    |
| Tel (33)93.52.98.36, Fax 93.52.98.48      |                       |
Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.advocacy
From: andrew@cubetech.com
Subject: Re: NeXT prices (again)
Organization: Cube Technologies, Inc.
Date: Sun, 11 Oct 1992 09:31:13 GMT

In article <81386@ut-emx.uucp> ifbb657@ccwf.cc.utexas.edu (Douglas Floyd) writes:
>
>  The thing that is probably hindering the NeXT are its prices for
>software.  They are ludicrus.  Concurrence for the NeXT is $795
>discounted.  For the Mac, you could buy Acta, MS-Powerpoint and
>Pagemaker for that price.

Concurrence is a neat program, but I (and just about everyone I ask)
think it's way overpriced.  NeXTSTEP for the 486 will cost $1000
(maybe less).  It's silly.

>Lotus Improv for the NeXT is $549 while you can find Ms-Excel or
>Lotus 1-2-3 for Mac for $400.

Mesa, I believe, is cheaper, way faster, and better than Improv,
although it's not as, well, it's not Improv (but that's an advantage
if you have to do spreadsheets and not figure out Improv).

>Are the NeXT programs more expensive to produce? If so, this
>could explain everything.  I do not mind paying more for a utility,
>if I get more in the process.  If Improv is tons better than 1-2-3 or
>Excel, I would buy it.  You get what you pay for.

NeXT software is cheaper to produce.  It's easier to write and
marketing is somewhat less expensive since there are relatively few
places to advertise (but NeXTworld isn't that cheap).  BUT, there
aren't that many people around to buy your product, so you have to
charge more to break-even.  This will be less the case once NeXTSTEP
486 hits the streets (if what I hear is true, it well REALLY not be
the case)...


andrew
-- 
andrew@cubetech.com     | "We shall not cease from exploration
Andrew Loewenstern      |  And the end of our exploring
Cube Technologies, Inc. |  Will be to arrive where we started
                        |  And know the place for the first time." -T.S. Eliot
Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.advocacy
From: andrew@cubetech.com
Subject: Re: 4.0 Wish (Now: Sun Flame!)
Organization: Cube Technologies, Inc.
Date: Mon, 12 Oct 1992 21:27:20 GMT

In article <1992Oct9.211751.11455@godel.questor.wimsey.bc.ca> aberno@godel.questor.wimsey.bc.ca writes:
>I also had a long chat with the Sun guy about the Distributed Objects  
>Everywhere program. It was sort of neat, although it was a flagrant abuse  
>of the word "object". The critical question was *when* - he said that it  
>would be gaining prominence in "the next two to four years". 

Doesn't NeXT have "Distributed Objects" registered as a trademark?


andrew
-- 
andrew@cubetech.com     | "We shall not cease from exploration
Andrew Loewenstern      |  And the end of our exploring
Cube Technologies, Inc. |  Will be to arrive where we started
                        |  And know the place for the first time." -T.S. Eliot
From: aozer@next.com (Ali Ozer)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.advocacy
Subject: Re: Multiple Sound playing in 3.0!
Keywords: Sound, 3.0
Date: 11 Oct 92 22:20:16 GMT
Organization: Next Computer, Inc.

In article <2599@ulysse.enst.fr> laroche@wayne.enst.fr (Jean Laroche ) writes:
>Here's a new cool feature of 3.0: You can play several sounds simultaneously!
> ... Can't wait to see games using this feature!

BreakApp's SoundEffect class can get you started on using this feature.
It provides the glue which makes using the new sound stuff as straightforward
as using the old Sound class. It could use improvements, of course, such
as the ability to play continuous sounds, but it's a start.

Ali, Ali_Ozer@NeXT.com
Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.advocacy
From: jscott@vardamir.next.nd.edu (James Scott)
Subject: Re: Essence of flame (equal time)
Organization: University of Notre Dame
Date: Thu, 8 Oct 1992 15:19:15 GMT

This is in the interest of Equal Time(TM)...look at my sig before you  
flame.

A NeXT SE told me about a T-shirt that Sun put out in 87.  It was the NeXT  
cube logo with the letters NeVR, and a caption that read "the T-shirt is  
the computer."

James
--
James Scott                                        
jscott@cleese.next.nd.edu
University of Notre Dame                NeXTMail Appreciated
NeXT, Inc. Campus Consultant
(219)283-1599				AUDIX: x5429
Steve Jobs on son Reed:  "We had our own little custom app."
		(NeXTWORLD magazine, Fall 1992)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.advocacy
From: lemson@ux1.cso.uiuc.edu (David Lemson)
Subject: Re: Need help over in comp.sys.mac.advocacy
Organization: University of Illinois at Urbana
Date: Thu, 8 Oct 1992 20:44:45 GMT

>>Sean Luke writes
>>> John Coolidge, who has for a long time insisted on the net
>>> that NeXTs are inferior to Macs and now works for Apple,
>>> refuses to stop telling everyone at comp.sys.mac.advocacy
>>> that NeXTSTEP comes free with NeXTs.

For those of you who haven't looked in comp.sys.mac.advocacy, the
misunderstanding is that John was counting 'being required to buy'
the Starting Point Kit as having to pay extra for NeXTSTEP. (As far
as I can tell!  I posted something but never got an e-mail reply
from John)
Hopefully everyone there is clear on it now.
-- 
David Lemson                                                (217) 244-1205
University of Illinois NeXT Campus Consultant / CCSO NeXT Lab System Admin
Internet : lemson@uiuc.edu                UUCP :...!uiucuxc!uiucux1!lemson 
NeXTMail accepted                                  BITNET : LEMSON@UIUCVMD
From: wierda@ltb.ltb.bso.nl (Gerben Wierda)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.advocacy
Subject: Flame
Date: 15 Oct 92 10:40:02 GMT
Reply-To: gerben@rna.indiv.nluug.nl
Organization: BSO/LT, Baarn, The Netherlands

I seldom flame. But the more I think about it the angrier I become, when
thinking about the missing documentation. A pathetic example: the concepts in
the developer manuals are the *1.0* concepts. When 2.0 was released there was
a promise about the upgrading of these concepts. The only thing upgraded now
is the header (which says 3.0!). Even the comments about what has changed are
still the 2.0(!) ones. This is just one example.

Now if NeXT was unable to clean up their documentation act since the
introduction of 2.0. I wonder if we will *ever* see documentation as it should
be.

I wouldn't be so angry if I did not like the environment so much. I wouldn't
be so angry either if NeXT would (apologize(?) and) state in public what they
are going to do about it.
-- 
wierda@ltb.bso.nl (Gerben Wierda)     ||    #include <std/disclaimer.h>. Support
NeXTmail: gerben@rna.indiv.nluug.nl   ||    the League for Programming Freedom!
    "If you don't know where you are going, any road will take you there."
    (From the Talmud(?), rephrased in) Lewis Carroll, "Alice in Wonderland".
From: john@nextdoor.com (John McCracken)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.advocacy
Subject: Re: Essence of flame
Date: 7 Oct 92 17:51:08 GMT
Article-I.D.: nextdoor.1992Oct7.175108.1554
Reply-To: john@nextdoor.com
Organization: Nextdoor Software, San Jose, CA, USA

In article <Bvps6t.HGz@usenet.ucs.indiana.edu>  writes:
> OK Lets see how many derogatory terms I've come across (mostly in
> comp.sys.amiga.advocacy):
> 
> Macintosh               MacinTrash,MacinToss

I usually call it the "Crapintosh" from "Crapple Computer", but often am
emotionally driven to call it simply a "piece of shit".


-- 
 John McCracken                   White Computers
 john@nextdoor.com                  Can't Jump
 NeXTMail welcome
From: isbell@cats.ucsc.edu (Art Isbell)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.advocacy
Subject: Re: Naming the new machine.
Date: 8 Oct 92 05:58:17 GMT
Organization: Cubic Solutions - NeXT software development and consulting
NNTP-Posting-Host: am.ucsc.edu


In article <SCOTT.92Oct7060900@nic.gac.edu> scott@nic.gac.edu (Scott Hess) writes:
>Perhaps
>NeXT needs to build one of those and pre-install it on their systems
>so as to curtail lovely questions like "There's this big 'ol file
>in /private/vm, and I don't know what it does.  Can I delete it?",

I like the one about opening /private/vm in Edit to see what it contains... :-)
-- 

Art Isbell                                                      Cubic Solutions
NeXT Registered Developer #745         NeXT software development and consulting
Email: isbell@cats.UCSC.EDU                                Voice: (408)335-1154
USmail: 95018-9442                                           Fax: (408)335-2515
Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.advocacy
From: andrewd@tamsun.tamu.edu (Andrew T Duchowski)
Subject: Re: I want my NTV (in 4.0)
Organization: Texas A&M University, College Station
Date: Thu, 8 Oct 1992 16:47:28 GMT

In article <Bvoq8K.H69@news.cso.uiuc.edu> jeffo@uiuc.edu (J.B. Nicholson-Owens) writes:
>Marcos Javier Polanco writes
>> Does anybody know (or does anybody care) about full-motion digital video  
>> on the NeXT?
>
>From what I see on NeXT's part, they don't seem to care about anything but  
>shipping more NeXTstations out the door.  The NeXTdimension could have been  
>both affordable and a video power-house, but...
>
>> The question is, will it be NeXT TV with a 10-foot screen and  
>> HDTV resolution? If NeXT pursues this market properly, supporting PX64 and  
>> MPEG compression schemes, then a NeXT can be infiltrated into every  
>> American home in the guise of a sophisticated TV set.
>
>NeXT seems to have a hard enough time getting promises they made a while back  
>fulfilled (not that that won't stop them from making more).  Localization (as  
>NeXT claims it is in 3.0) and real-time compression on the ND board are just  
>two of the bigger unfulfilled promises mentioned in this and other groups by a  
>bunch of people.
>
>Also, I doubt that NeXT would bring down the cost of their machine to the price  
>where people would honestly consider a NeXT-TV versus a regular TV.  And  
>finally, people who aren't into computers are not going to want to wade through  
>all the problems associated with operating one just to watch a TV show.
>-- 
>-- Jeff (jeffo@uiuc.edu)
>-- NeXTmail ok

Jeff, you don't have a ND in your cube do you?  :)  Personally, I'd love
to have one, if it wasn't for the price...

Anyway, this is sort of an interesting thread.  One question I have is:
What is this NeXTTV app in NS3.0?  I haven't looked in Librarian, and 
otherwise have seen no docs on it.  What is it supposed to do?  Do you
need the ND to get a video signal in there, if that is its purpose?

-Andrew

-- 
--   Andrew Duchowski
--   Texas A&M University
--   andrewd@cs.tamu.edu (non-NeXT mail)
--   andrewd@visual2.cs.tamu.edu (NeXT mail)                   
Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.advocacy