From: tlode@nyx.cs.du.edu (trygve lode)
Subject: Re: Exactly what I mean by "unattached"...
Organization: Nyx, Public Access Unix @ U. of Denver Math/CS dept.
Date: Sun, 23 Aug 92 19:29:39 GMT

In article <kiran.714481102@bronze.ucs.indiana.edu> kiran@bronze.ucs.indiana.edu (Kiran Wagle) writes:
>tlode@nyx.cs.du.edu (trygve lode) writes:
>
>>kiran@bronze.ucs.indiana.edu (Kiran Wagle) writes:
>>>your sectret, since so many people seem to have little choice about
>>>what makes them feel happy and unhappy.  ...They just seem to have so
>>>little control over those pesky emotions.
>
>>Or rather, they have accepted the popular misconception that they have
>>so little control over those pesky emotions.  
>
>I have not claimed that it's impossible to control one's emotions (in
>some sense.)  But in order to do so, one must discover and changfe the
>values that underlie those emotions.  This is not easy.  One cannot
>just choose a new set of values and blithely expec the emotions to
>follow, one has to internalise those vaules, way down at the level of
>sense-of-life (not merely at the level of conscious philosophy.)

It's not easy, but it's far from impossible.  The problem is that
many people accept the popular notion that it is impossible and,
consequently, feel helpless and unable to control their own minds.
This is also part of the popular trend in our society to create
unnatural dichotomies, to cut off logic from feeling, mind from
body, work from play, alienating us from ourselves, causing 
unhappiness, and leaving people to compensate for their perceived
inability to control themselves by seeking control over others.

Anyway, the important thing is that "requires effort" and "impossible"
are two very different things and I think people would be a lot happier
if they understood that changing their emotions was the former rather
than the latter. 

>>A lot of unhappy people would become happy if they just realized that
>>their life already corersponds to what they really want and they've
>>just been socialized to believe they want something else; 
>
>Your statement could be interpreted as if to suggest that if you "just
>realise"--in other words, if you _decide_--that the situation you are
>in is wonderful, you will suddenly become happy.  Doesn't work that way.

I suppose it could be interpreted that way, but that's not what I 
meant at all.  Our culture is filled with lots of messages about
what people are supposed to want--trouble is, people aren't nearly
as uniform as those messages and don't necessarilly want what they're
"supposed" to.  A lot of people will find the path to happiness much
less rocky once they figure out what they really do want and can set
aside what their parents and society have told them that they should
want. 

>Attempting to convince yourself that black is white will do nothing
>but get you killed on the next zebra crossing.

Are zebra crossings white paint with black asphalt stripes or black
asphalt with white paint stripes?  

>>What's the "secret" to gaining control of your emotions?  First, you
>>have to accept them; second, you root around your psyche until you
>>figure out what their bases are (usually a long-term and ongoing
>>process); third, you accept those parts of you and decide whether
>>or not you wish to change them.
>
>Yes, this is the rub.  What you have just described is not at all
>easy.  One cannot just , as marcia seemed to suggest, get rid of the
>feelings one doesn't like in a Saturday afternoon.

Not if there's a really good movie on, no, but the point is that it
is possible; people are not unable to control their feelings.

>Furthermore, a person who is not in her ideal state _should_ feel
>unhappy.  That's part of the point of emotions-- they tell you
>something about yourself and the world.  If you were happy all the
>time, how would you ever know that you _weren't_ in your ideal state?

For me the biggest tip-off is that happiness/unhappiness isn't a
binary condition--indeed, near as I can tell, it's not even quantized.
Right now I'm quite happy with my life, but I'm not by any means
satisfied with it and can easilly think of many ways to improve my
lot.  Sometimes I wonder just how much happiness has to do with
external circumstances at all--by and large, it seems that some people
are happy and some people are miserable and, except for brief periods
of time, changing their situation has little effect on their emotional
state; indeed, it seems that the only effective route to happiness is
through changing yourself rather than changing the world.

Trygve 
Newsgroups: soc.singles