From: gregs@meaddata.com (Greg Smith)
Subject: Re: Selling Clerical Services
Keywords: Dosh for healing
Organization: Mead Data Central, Dayton OH
Date: Tue, 1 Sep 1992 14:51:03 GMT

In article <1732@grivel.une.edu.au>, nsecomb@metz.une.edu.au ( Nige.) writes:
|> 
|>    My apologies if this has been debated to death on the net, but it is a
|> question that I've tended to ignore over the years, but then I've rarely
|> played clerics.
|>    In a party of adventurers, a party where the individuals share
|> a working relationship rather than being friends, should the cleric be
|> entitled to payment for his (sorry, their) healing services? or should they

I think that is the biggest problem.  Of all the classes, only the spell casting
ability of the cleric is a power not manifested in the person.  His/her power
to cast spells comes from his/her god.  In addition to this spell power, the
cleric has quite a bit to offer a party.  He/she may be as heavily armed as any
fighter (could depend on diety), cast offensive spells (albiet not as impressive
or effective as many mage spells), even perform some thief like functions.

Therefore, I personally have come to the conclusion that the cleric should be
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under no *obligation* to provide spell power for the party, especially healing.
He/she should be obligated (at least) to fight just as vigoriously as a fighter
in the party.  He/she may be expected to provide offensive and/or defensive
magic (hold person or bless, etc) as well.

Now before you start flaming this ... the above doesn't work for all clerics.
Some gods would preclude fighting, some preclude armor (thereby making the
cleric a less effective fighter, but it could be argued that the cleric was
risking more and putting forth the same effort in fighting without armor),
others (gods) may require the cleric to be very free with spell powers.

I think the best solution is for the player and DM to come up with a ruling
based on the religion.  I also think that the prices listed in the DM guide
for NPC spell casting should not be used for player-to-player transactions.
I have played clerics that expected "payment" for healing to come in all
sorts of packages (keep in mind that some gods are not into materialism and
their clerics might even be offended if offered money for services).

Just to give some examples of "payments" that I have had offered and/or accepted:

1) Money (say 100 GP for an adventure where the donater may have been healed
dozens of times)
2) A shortened watch for a period of time to give the cleric more time to pray.
3) Other various "favors"
4) Some item the reciepient offered that they considered very valuable (I think
a barbarian once gave me his prized polar bear claw necklace)
5) A spell cast for me (Mu magic mouth comes to mind)
6) Promises to help me on some church related mission should one come up (and
they always seem to ...)

etc.

If the players just remember to give *something* to the cleric and at least
*act* sincere about it, it really helps the cleric feel better about healing
the unbeliever.

Healing those who profess a different religion is a much
stickier proposition.  In this post I have been mainly talking about non-believers
in the sense of either not having a god, or the cleric not knowing that the do
have a god.  For some clerics, even adventuring with this sort of party would be
a wierd thing to do.  

(Soapbox talk on party makeup and creation ... filled with personal opinion)

I think that poor mixes of religions and alignments are
usually caused by players who independently create characters for and adventure
and the DM throws this unlikely group at one another.  Then it's play with these
other characters, quit, or redo that character, all of which are less than ideal
solutions.  I like getting the players together to generate a theme for the party.
We usually end up with similiar alignments, less conflicts, and some times allot
of the same religion.  These sort of pre-rolling decisions may not be for everyone,
but the groups I've usually played with like to play team ball.  Without having
a character that would fit in with a group, that character would be rejected,
forcing that player to change characters, or not play.  We prefered some 
slightly contrived circumstances to both get the party together and try and
make it compatible.  Your milage may vary.


|> just give the benefits of their divine faith to the heathens in the party
|> who's contributions take the form of muscle and swordsmanship, arcane 
|> abilities, or rogue attributes. If the Cleric does get paid, then should the 
|> warrior also get paid for each physical threat to the party they eliminate, or
|> each spell the mage casts etc, or should the cleric once paid for services
|> rendered just not be entitled to the rewards or booty from a successful
|> adventure. 
|>    For a LG or NG the cleric's diety may obligate their divine healing powers
|> be used to aid anyone in need, and expect payment as the church strives to
|> promote goodness etc. But what about any of the neutral clerics ( yes, those
|> clerics that don't affect undead do exist somewhere), is it possible that 
|> their diety does demand payment in certain or maybe all circumstances, and if
|> so what may be examples of the situations.
|>    I won't even pose the question for evil dieties for two reasons,
|> (1) I can't imagine many instances where an evil cleric would heal someone,
|> unless they expected a favour in return, and pretty big one at that. This
|> would appear logical given that most good dietys disdain harm spells.
|> (2) I personally hate evil dietys and the concepts behind them, and so 
|> really don't care that much about them, (but still I accept as part of AD@D 
|> and rpg's for reasons of game balance). BUT, for the benefit of those who 
|> don't mind having evil PC clerics, please share your thoughts on this matter 
|> because hopefully I won't be the only one interested in the correspondance on 
|> this issue.
|>    The main reason why these questions are posed is because I'd like some
|> ideas on how you can develop are cleric character's personality, especially
|> of non NG and LG allignments, without it turning into the "generic cleric"
|> character where the cleric just gives healing no questions asked or payment
|> demands made.
|> 
|>                                                 Nigel.

Thanks for your careful attention,

-- 
Greg Smith

DISCLAIMER:  My ideas are entirely my own unless MDC decides to patent them.
I am not empowered to speak for Mead Data Central or Mead Corporation.