From: steinly@topaz.ucsc.edu (Steinn Sigurdsson)
Newsgroups: sci.environment
Subject: Re: Population growth and cultural destruction (Re: Nasty ...)
Date: 11 Dec 92 13:41:13
Organization: Lick Observatory/UCO
	<STEINLY.92Dec11104207@topaz.ucsc.edu>
	<1992Dec11.212540.6301@vexcel.com>
NNTP-Posting-Host: topaz.ucsc.edu
In-reply-to: dean@vexcel.com's message of Fri, 11 Dec 1992 21:25:40 GMT

In article <1992Dec11.212540.6301@vexcel.com> dean@vexcel.com (Dean Alaska) writes:


   In article <STEINLY.92Dec11104207@topaz.ucsc.edu> steinly@topaz.ucsc.edu (Steinn Sigurdsson) writes:
   >In article <1992Dec11.174941.2844@vexcel.com> dean@vexcel.com (Dean Alaska) writes:

   >   In article <STEINLY.92Dec10134815@topaz.ucsc.edu> steinly@topaz.ucsc.edu (Steinn Sigurdsson) writes:
   >   >In article <1992Dec10.184439.8324@vexcel.com> dean@vexcel.com (Dean Alaska) writes:

   >   The situations I have been describing are where the modernization is
   >   brought from the outside.  The dynamics in western Europe would likely
   >   be much different since it was home-grown - and also much slower.  I

   >Just to note, the period I mentioned actually saw several major
   >transitions, arguable the most significant took place in about
   >30 years and was due to external causes - the Black Death.

   >   don't doubt that the specifics vary for different cultures.  I would
   >   certainly agree that cultural mechanisms break when they fail to
   >   stretch but do we need to stretch them so much?  For example, 

   > ...

   >I agree with this approach, although it should be noted that the
   >"appropriateness" of a technology tends to be rather variable
   >in hindsight :-(

   So true.  The point is that local conditions need to be considered
   when the choices are made.

 ...

   Well, bringing in does not mean sending in.  I would be interested in
   some examples of appropriate technology causing more harm than good.

I think the point is that as soon as 
"appropriate" technology does more harm
than good it is reclassified as "inappropriate" ;-)

 ...


   There are new theories that biological evolution was not a linearly
   smooth process so that is my "out" here :).  To say that most
   development has occurred in your lifetime is myopic, IMO.  I would
   say that "development" starts with the change to a cash economy with
   wage labor, i.e., the start of capitalism.  This started in Europe
   centuries ago.  The enormous rate of _technological_ development in 
   the last two generations took place in societies that had already
   transformed into capitalism.  

Just to clarify: I was saying that the "development" of _my_ country
to an industrialised society with a cash economy and wage labour has
to a significant extent occurred in my lifetime - my native country
was a colony during my parents lifetime.

*  Steinn Sigurdsson   			 Lick Observatory     	  *
* steinly@lick.ucsc.edu		         "standard disclaimer"    *
* Oh look out my country's patriots are hunting down below	  *
* What do they know of England who only England know  - B.B. 1991 *



From: beatty@hpavla.lf.hp.com (Chris Beatty)
Date: Wed, 16 Dec 1992 16:06:26 GMT
Subject: Re: Re: Re: Re: Natural Gas? ("structural impediments")
Organization: Hewlett-Packard Little Falls Site