From: payner@netcom.com (Rich Payne)
Subject: Re: feminist sound bytes
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services (408 241-9760 guest)
Distribution: usa
Date: Mon, 14 Dec 1992 00:37:22 GMT

In article <1992Dec9.161156.12950@cs.cornell.edu> jean@cs.cornell.edu (Jean M. Petrosino) writes:
>
>In article 5707 Bronis Vidugiris states:
>	I'm fairly sure, however, that I am reasonably solid ground
>	in maintaining that 'violence against women' has come to mean
>	protesting violence against women and has taken on the sexist/
>	chivalrist orientation. One of the unfortunate side effects
>	is that the significant problems men have with crime have been
>	de-emphasized or not talked about in order to pursue this agenda.
>
>I agree with this--I feel it is unfortunate that men's dealings with crime are
>de-emphasized in this campaign.  

What do you mean by "men's dealings with crime"? This is quite different
in meaning from ">the significant problems men have with crime".

>                                 This may be due to the fact that the campaign
>targets women to make them recognize the problems that they face and to 
>encourage them to do something about it.
>
>He goes on to state:
>	For evidence, I will offer such political machinations as
>	the refusal of the Biden committee to allow men's groups
>	to even testify on Biden's proposed 'violence against women'
>	legislation. Addressing the needs of both men and women with
>	respect to domestic violence would solve everyone's problems
>	in this area - the committee, however, didn't even want to 
>	LISTEN to the evidence that men also suffer from a significant
>	amount of domestic violence.  (In this context, significant
>	means that women hit men about as much as the reverse, and 
>	strike the first blow about as often - however, they seek
>	treatment in hospitals for injuries as a result of domestic
>	violence a lot more.)
>
>Once again, I agree that although the number of reported incidences of men as
>victims of domestic violence is low, the Biden committee should have at least
>considered including men into their legislation. 

Wait a sec, the stats Bronis Vidugiris posted earlier show about as many
male victims of domestic violence as female victims. Note further that
in both surveys, the reported number for "severe violence" has more male 
victims.

At any rate, these two surveys show roughly equivalant domestic violence
directed against both sexes. The third is useless for comparison.

|From: bhv@areaplg2.corp.mot.com (Bronis Vidugiris)
|Subject: Re: feminist sound bytes
|
|[...---...]
|
|You might be surprised, though, that 'slapped' was separated out from
|'kicked, bit, or hit with fist' in the data I have (the later having more
|injury potential), and there were more husband victims for the kicked, etc
|category than wife victims.  Not to mention ever popular 'Hit or tried to hit
|with something'.  Some authors have decried the fact that 'choked' was not
|on the list, and feel the omission favors men, though. [yep, I'm serious
|here.]
|
|---
|Rates per yer per 1000 couples of various forms of violence.
|
|                                 CTS Survey #1    CTS Survey #2    Kentucky
|                                 1975 (N=2143)    1985 (N=3520)    1979
|                                  wife    huband wife   husband    wife
|                                  victim  vicitm victim victim     victim
|
|1) Threw something                    28     52   28     43         29
|2) Pushed, grabbed, or shoved        107     83   93     89         85
|3) Slapped                            51     46   29     41         48
|4) kicked, bit, or hit with fist      24     31   15     24         14
|5) Hit or tried to hit with something 22     30   17     30         22
|6) Beat up                            11      6    8      4         18
|7) Threat with gun or knife            4      6    4      6         14
|8) Used gun or knife                   3      2    2      2          4
|
|Overall violence (1-8)               121    116   113     121
|severe violence  (5-8)                38     46    30      44
|
|Strauss, M.A., Gelles, R.J., and Steinmetz, S.K. Behind closed
|doors:  Violence in American families Doubleday, New York, 1980
|
|Gelles, Richard J. and Straus, Murray A.  Intimate Violence:  The causes
|and consequences of abuse in the American Family, Simon & Schuster Inc,
|New York, 1988
|
|"The Survey of Spousal Violence Against Women in Kentucky" (WDC,1979)


>                                                   BUT, what you left out was 
>that although 'women hit men as much as the reverse, and strike the first blow
>about as often', women and men hit differently.  This is where biology comes
>in.  Obviously, the average woman is physically smaller than the average man. 
>Most women who strike out physically are more likely to slap than to punch,
>thus doing less damage than the average male who strikes with his fist. 

One survey shows that women were less likely to slap, the other that men
are, assuming that these surveys deal with violence between the sexes.
Both surveys show that men are more often "kicked, bit, or hit with fist"
and "Hit or tried to hit with something" by a significant margin.

>Not to mention that a man's bigger muscle mass will make him less susceptible 
>to serious damage from a smaller person such as a woman.  

I though the issue was violence? Are you saying that any violence is
irrelevant, only serious damage is? 

>I am certainly not condoning any sort of violence, whether it is initiated by
>a male or a female.  What I'm saying is that until we as a society deal with
>the violence that pervades our lives, men and particularly women will continue
>to be victimized.



Rich

payner@netcom.com


Newsgroups: alt.feminism