HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: AS.MSW@forsythe.stanford.edu (Marc Whitney)
Subject: Re: caving was water-heat-light and ropes - ??
Organization: Stanford University, California, USA
Distribution: usa
Date: Wed, 30 Sep 1992 16:56:07 GMT

In article <1992Sep29.205334.17670@nas.nasa.gov>,
eugene@wilbur.nas.nasa.gov (Eugene N. Miya) writes:
>It's the character of cavers to be very quiet about their caves to prevent
>damage inside them while quite a few read this group.  They are
>far more protective than climbers about their environment.
>
Having been escorted / dragged / baby'd through one cave I can see
why.  They are much, much more fragile than most cliffs.  A dozen
years will erase most of what climbers do (through natural rock fall
and erosion) while even minor impact in a cave persists for
centuries.  Also, the ethics needed to prevent / minimize impact are
not obvious even to the concerned but uneducated novice.  For
instance, it would not have occurred to me to wear cotton gloves
(sweat, body oils, etc. can damage and discolor) or take a pee
bottle.
Newsgroups: rec.climbing
From: eugene@wilbur.nas.nasa.gov (Eugene N. Miya)
Subject: Re: East Side Sierra
Organization: NAS, NASA Ames Research Center, Moffett Field, CA
Date: Tue, 6 Oct 92 06:08:15 GMT
Distribution: ca

In article <1992Oct5.165126.20614@Cadence.COM> bruceg@Cadence.COM
(Bruce Gustifson) writes:
>What I was wondering was if 
>there is any climbing there except for Owens Gorge and Buttermilks.
>Not that that's not enough, but I was just curious!

Actually neither the Buttermilks nor the Owens Gorge are the Sierra
proper.  The Buttermilks are technically an outlier.  The Gorge is
a slit in the Bishop Tuft.

Naw, no climbing over there, just two mountain ranges each with a vertical
relief in excess of 10,000 ft. which from Bishop take over 300 degrees
in field of view.  Ignore those peaks and crags.  Oh, ignore
that book by Alan and that other book by Roper and one by Secor, too.

	;^)

--eugene miya, NASA Ames Research Center, eugene@orville.nas.nasa.gov
  Acting Associate Editor, Software and Publication Reviews
  Scientific Programming
  {uunet,mailrus,other gateways}!ames!eugene
Seeking Books to buy:	Bongard, Pattern Recognition
			Imhof, Cartographic Relief Presentation
			Books on or by Benjamin Whorf
			Wulf et al, The Design of an Optimizing Compiler
From: bowen@acsu.buffalo.edu (Devon E Bowen)
Newsgroups: rec.climbing
Subject: warm climbing in January?
Date: 7 Oct 92 02:15:56 GMT
Organization: State University of New York at Buffalo/Comp Sci

My sister and I are planning a cross country drive in early January. The
only specific destinations are the Grand Canyon and Albuquerque. The rest
is still up in the air. We were hoping to plan two days of climbing some-
where into the trip but I've heard from a few people that it might be to
cold to climb in places like Joshua Tree or New Mexico that time of year.

So the question is... what is the best place in that end of the country
that would give us the best chance of getting some climbing in? Pretty
much anywhere will do. As I said, we don't have too many plans yet. So
anywhere in New Mexico, Nevada, Arizon, or California would be fine.

Oh, and I'd prefer someplace with top-roping if possible. Any suggestions
are appreciated.

Devon
From: trzyna@CS.ColoState.EDU (wayne trzyna)
Newsgroups: rec.climbing
Subject: Re: OW was Overhangs
Date: 30 Sep 92 16:21:46 GMT
Organization: Colorado State University, Computer Science Department

In article <1992Sep25.193355.17393@odin.corp.sgi.com>
bruceb@roadrunner.denver.sgi.com (Bruce Bailey) writes:
>In article <106480261@hpfcso.FC.HP.COM>, j_elison@hpfcso.FC.HP.COM
(Jeff Elison) writes:
>|> The idea of thinking like Dr. OW scares me.  At least I still know enough to
>|> stay away from any crack bigger than my fist.
>
>Yes, however this personality deficiency can be "corrected" through
>"treatment".  Mort, we need to schedule an "appointment!

Wow, this would work better than thorazine or shock "therapy" for
maintaining discipline in mental institutions.  "Behave yourself
or we'll make you climb that off-width again."

-- 

-Wayne Trzyna
 trzyna@CS.ColoState.EDU
Newsgroups: rec.climbing
From: eugene@wilbur.nas.nasa.gov (Eugene N. Miya)
Subject: Re: Food to take on climbs
Organization: NAS, NASA Ames Research Center, Moffett Field, CA
Date: Mon, 5 Oct 92 17:59:15 GMT

In article <26551@castle.ed.ac.uk> jeremy@castle.ed.ac.uk (JHenderson) writes:
>I read somewhere the idea of taking a packet of dog food - the "moist"
>kind. It might save your life, but you sure as hell won't eat unless it's
>an emergency!!

Very popular that people mention this in the earthquake newsgroup in CA.
Also pet foods are a symbol in this country when the eldery start to
eat them.  While the latter is economic, the former two escape me.
How these urban legends get started is amusing.  Let us know how your
canine meal turns out.

--eugene miya, NASA Ames Research Center, eugene@orville.nas.nasa.gov
  Resident Cynic, Rock of Ages Home for Retired Hackers
  {uunet,mailrus,other gateways}!ames!eugene
Second Favorite email message: Returned mail: Cannot send message for 3 days
A Ref: Mathematics and Plausible Reasoning, vol. 1, G. Polya
Newsgroups: rec.climbing
From: intgrec@lims01.lerc.nasa.gov (CHRIS GREB)
Subject: Climbing near Cleveland?
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41    
Organization: NASA Lewis Research Center
Date:  5 Oct 1992 12:19 EST  


Can anyone tell me what's near Cleveland to climb?  I've been to some 
places in Tenn. and Indiana. . .Anything else?

Also. . .I'm new to the area -- Where might I find a group to climb with?

Thanks.

					Chris
From: Gen.M.Kanai@dartmouth.edu (Gen M. Kanai)
Newsgroups: rec.climbing
Subject: re: Wolfgang Gullich Dead: thats a joke, right?
Date: 27 Sep 92 02:18:05 GMT
Organization: Dartmouth College, Hanover, NH
X-Posted-From: InterNews1.0a5@newshost.dartmouth.edu

Wolfgang Gullich didnt die in a car crash did he?  When and where did
this happen.  It cant have!  Wasnt he working on Stallone's movie? 
What the hell!  On of the world's top sport climbers falling asleep at
the wheel?!

This is all a big joke right?

Next is Peter Croft right?

Tell me I'm mistaken please.

Gen
Newsgroups: rec.climbing
From: GA.MAY@forsythe.stanford.edu (mitchell)
Subject: Re: United Way and SAR
Organization: Stanford University, California, USA
Distribution: usa
Date: Thu, 1 Oct 1992 02:30:25 GMT

In article <kllKr*Pi0@stile.stonemarche.org>,
me@stile.stonemarche.org (Mark Eklof) writes:
>In article <10418@vice.ICO.TEK.COM>, Hal F Lillywhite writes:
>> Well folks, it's that time again.  At least here in Oregon, United
>> Way campaigns are starting.  Some of us outdoor types may want to
>> consider having all or part of any donations we make go to a local
>> search and rescue group.  These groups are not normally part of UW
>> but if you use the designated recipient option you can still
>> contribute to them (at least here, I'm not absolutely certain that
>> policy is nationwide but I think it is).
>
>        Okay, I'm confused.  Why not just contribute to the groups you
>want to contribute to directly?  That way, you know where the money's
>going, and there's no cut to the middleman.
>
>        Targeting particular organisations this way always struck me
>as somewhat ineffective.  The middleman will decide how much to give
>each organisation, and include 'your' targeted donation in that
>amount.  It sounds in this case like these groups wouldn't normally
>get anything, so I'm surprised that UW will do this.
>
>Mark
>--
>Mark D. Eklof
>Madarch Grange
>Brookline, New Hampshire, USA
>
>me@stile.stonemarche.org
>
>I remember when all this will be again.

A momentary digression from climbing....

I concur with Mark.  I used to be a part of, and used to run
a SAR unit that still is a non-profit, tax-deductible corporation.
United Way used to give us tons of sh*t when we used to go
to them and bitch about not receiving our share of directed
contributions.  United Way would normally deduct something
like 12% for their trouble to give you the money.  For directed
contributions that didn't fit their normal companies and give
them a warm fuzzy feeling, they took around 20%.  Of course,
if they couldn't figure out how to get the money to us,
they just kept the whole pot.

Forget United Way and give directly.

mitchell
Newsgroups: rec.climbing
From: davin@hardy.u.washington.edu (David Veale)
Subject: alpine touring gear for sale
	I'm getting back into telemarking, and I need some money to
		-Hagan ALPINA skis, 180cm
		-Silvretta bindings
		-Dynafit TOURLITE boots, size 11-11.5 (I'm an 11 street shoe)
		-Coll-Tex mohair climbing skins
	cost was $700 new, with package prices and on sale; your cost is $425
	You can reach me @ 206-528-5765 (Seattle) or send me some e-mail
Organization: University of Washington
Date: Sun, 27 Sep 1992 17:33:11 GMT
From: morrison@cup.hp.com (Bobbie_Morrison)
Newsgroups: rec.climbing
Subject: Re: JT guidebooks/Opinions on the two
Date: 5 Oct 92 20:54:32 GMT
Article-I.D.: cup.Bvo22w.53s
Distribution: usa
Organization: Hewlett-Packard
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1.4 PL6]


Hi Richard,


: 
: Since it is approaching Joshua Tree season and since there are now two
: guidebooks on Joshua Tree, I would be interested to hear from anyone
: who may have compared the two.  The big fat guide by Randy Vogel ($35?)
: I presume is an updated version of his old guidebook.

Yes it is.  The new one by Vogel incorporates his original pinkish-purple
one and his supplement and new climbs since the supplement.  It is done
in the same style as his first one with pictures with lines drawn on for
the routes.  It costs $35 (I think.)

What is the other guide???  Do you mean the Barlett books?  I don't know
of any other than the new Vogel and Barlett's set.

: 
: There is also a set of guidebooks by Alan Bartlett.  He seems to have a
: series of guidebooks for Hidden Valley, Indian Cove, etc.  That seems
: more convenient to carry around.

So far there is Hidden Valley, Indian Cove, and Lost Horse Canyon.  Bartlett's
books are topos - NOT pictures.  They cost around $10 (I think.)

: 
: I have never gotten a chance to open up both guidebooks and compare
: them side by side.  I would like to hear from someone who has.

Since I already had Vogel's original guidebook and supplement, I started
buying the Barlett books (they also were out before Vogel's latest revision.)
So we tend to use them both if in question about a climb.

The problem with Vogel's is the price.  I had already spend $25 + whatever
the supplement cost on the original books.  I wasn't about to pay $35 for
another redundant book.  (Although a friend of ours who never had the original
Vogel book did buy his latest revision.)  

The problem with Barlett's set is that they only cover certain areas of
J-tree.  If (like our friend) you need a comprehensive guide then Vogel's
is the one.  But if you just need an update of the major areas, or only
plan on climbing in those major areas then Bartlett's books are better IMHO.
I like the topos better than the pictures.

--Bobbie Morrison
  Hewlett-Packard
  Cupertino, CA
From: gustave@ada.seas.ucla.edu (Gustave R. Stroes)
Newsgroups: rec.climbing
Subject: Lubricating Cams
Date: 6 Oct 92 20:29:31 GMT
Distribution: na
Organization: SEASnet, University of California, Los Angeles

I was wondering if anyone out there has any advice on what
to use to lubricate the various moving parts on climbing
equipment (carabiners, cams etc.).  I have read that cleaning
should be done with kerosene and then a silicon spray should
be used for lubrication.  I have tried the silicon but have 
found that it actually tends to bind up the cams on my Camalots.
Then I tried some Tri-Flow (bicycle chain lube) and this freed
them right up but I'm woried about dirt sticking to it.
Any suggestions?

Gustave 
Newsgroups: rec.climbing
From: mabry@julio.sanders.lockheed.com (Mark Mabry)
Subject: harnesses
Reply-To: mabry@rapnet.sanders.lockheed.com
Organization: Lockheed Sanders Inc.
Date: Fri, 2 Oct 92 17:54:50 GMT

I just noticed an old Climbing Magazine article about harnesses that
said that a harness should be retired after 2 years of "weekend" use.
I have never heard of this.  My harness is 4 years old and seems to be
in great shape.  Does anyone go by this standard?  

-- 
Mark Mabry                                  Lockheed Sanders, Inc.
Digital Design Center of Technology         95 Canal St.
mabry@rapnet.sanders.lockheed.com           Nashua, NH 03060
                                            (603)885-9196
From: gustave@curtiss.seas.ucla.edu (Gustave R. Stroes)
Newsgroups: rec.climbing
Subject: plastic doubles
Date: 30 Sep 92 16:28:04 GMT
Organization: SEASnet, University of California, Los Angeles

Can anybody give me some advice on custom fitting plastic
doubles?  Can ski shops do this?  I have a pair of Scarpa
Invernos.  Pefect fit length wise but too wide around
the ankles.  Any advice would be appreciated.  Thanks...

Gustave 
Newsgroups: rec.climbing
From: Fabrizio Sebastiani <fabrizio@iei.pi.cnr.it>
Subject: Re: Seeking info on Grivel 2F Crampons
X-Xxmessage-Id: <A6EF3A3AF0010363@mac-sebastiani.iei.pi.cnr.it>
X-Xxdate: Wed, 30 Sep 92 15: 04:26 GMT
Organization: Italian National Council of Research
X-Useragent: Nuntius v1.1.1d11
Date: Wed, 30 Sep 1992 09:30:23 GMT

In article <BvD1nM.AJp@csn.org> Roger Spaulding, rogers@teal.csn.org
writes:
>	Does anyone have any experience with or comments on
>	Grivel 2F cramps?

I own a pair of 2F and I am particularly satisfied with them: the price
is fairly cheap for a pair of automatic crampons (round L. 90.000, sturdy
bag included, equivalent to roughly $70 at current (?) exchange rates). 
I use them for ski mountaneering, so I appreciate the fact that they are
quick to put on and off.  One particularly strong point for them is that
they are extremely easy to adjust to different boot size: you do not even
need screwdrivers or wrenches, just your bare hands.  They also have an
interchangeable front piece, with different pieces for different uses
available (just the standard, less "aggressive" piece is included in the
$70, though).  Gobs of ski-mountaineers here in Italy have the 2F, and
I've only heard positive comments.  I have not heard any comments,
though, on  uses different from ski-mountaineering (ice wall climbs,
...).  The only negative comment I've heard is that they apprently do not
fit on boot sizes higher than (European) 45 (guess it corresponds to 11
or 11 and 1/2).

Fabrizio

----------------------------------
Fabrizio Sebastiani                             Phone : +39.(0)50.593407
Istituto di Elaborazione dell'Informazione        Fax : +39.(0)50.554342
Consiglio Nazionale delle Ricerche               Telex : 590305 IEICNR I
Via S. Maria, 46 - 56126 Pisa (ITALY)    E-mail : fabrizio@iei.pi.cnr.it
----------------------------------
From: susswein@anrchy.cxo.dec.com (Steve Susswein)
Newsgroups: rec.climbing
Subject: how to string chocks with spectra/plastic tubing?
Date: 30 Sep 92 16:32:37 GMT
Organization: Digital Equipment Corporation, Colorado Springs, Co


I decided that it's finally time to restring my old stoppers, and
decided to use spectra cord instead of perlon.  Since the spectra is
only 5.5 mm in diameter (vs. 8mm for the perlon) I got some plastic
tubing to ensure a tight fit.  The problem is that the fit is *too*
tight, and after trying different things for a couple of hours last
night I still can't get the spectra and plastic tube to fit through the
holes in the stopper.

Has anyone who's succeeded in doing this send me some instructions?

Thanks,

Steve
From: nathan@hal.com (Nathan Hoover)
Newsgroups: rec.climbing
Subject: Re: harnesses
Date: 2 Oct 92 22:06:40 GMT
Organization: HaL Computer Systems
NNTP-Posting-Host: rousseau.hal.com


 mabry@julio.sanders.lockheed.com (Mark Mabry) writes:

|> I just noticed an old Climbing Magazine article about harnesses that
|> said that a harness should be retired after 2 years of "weekend" use.
|> I have never heard of this.  My harness is 4 years old and seems to be
|> in great shape.  Does anyone go by this standard?  
|> 
|> -- 
|> Mark Mabry                                  Lockheed Sanders, Inc.
|> Digital Design Center of Technology         95 Canal St.
|> mabry@rapnet.sanders.lockheed.com           Nashua, NH 03060
|>                                             (603)885-9196
                
I can't imagine retiring a harness after 2 years of "weekend use."  Sounds like an
article written by a harness salesman who wants more sales.  I did retire my first
harness when it was maybe 10 years old, but the second one is now 5+ years old and
in excellent condition.  Or does "weekend use" mean 104 days of use per year?
          
-- 
  Nathan Hoover    nathan@hal.com  408-379-7000x1331
From: Paul.Williams@brunel.ac.uk (Paul M Williams)
Newsgroups: rec.climbing
Subject: Re: Seeking info on Grivel 2F Crampons
Date: 2 Oct 92 10:30:28 GMT
Organization: Brunel University, Uxbridge, UK
X-Newsreader: Tin 1.1 PL3

Ive had a pair for almost a year now but only managed about 6 routes in them, the weathers fault not the crampons! So far no problems at all, they are very quick and easy to put on, seem to work very well front pointing and snow trudgiing. No complaints at all. And they come in a sexy pink carry bag!!!!! What more can you ask for?

Paul.
Newsgroups: rec.climbing
From: timsc@hwcae.Honeywell.COM (Tim Schneider)
Subject: Re: Food to take on climbs/ Job opening
Reply-To: timsc@hwcae.honeywell.com
Organization: Honeywell, Air Transport Division; Phoenix, AZ
Date: Thu, 1 Oct 1992 23:26:26 GMT


Torts, and sometimes salsa 

Also bagels, tigers milk bars (taste better than powerbars), lots of
water.

Fig Bars dried fruit etc:

Totillias make great outsides for Peanut Butter and Jelly "burritos"
also sometimes make chicken and refried bean burritos with cheese and
wrap in foil.. (These do get easily crushed though)

usually dont eat alot, and just wait till I get back to camp or in
town then chow down!

--
            tim schneider

    timsc@hwcae.honeywell.com  OR
  uunet!asuvax!hwcae.honeywell.com!timsc
           (602) 436-3078
From: mike@pyrdc.UUCP (Mike Whitman)
Newsgroups: rec.climbing
Subject: Mountain Magazine is DEAD!
Date: 30 Sep 92 15:17:49 GMT
Organization: Pyramid Technology, Government Systems

In the latest Climbing (#134) there is the news that Mountain Magazine has 
folded. Mountain was bought out by High, and High will fill the rest of the
outstanding subscriptions with thier magazine. The back issue department is
still operating so I can try to finish my collection. Sorry to see a good 
magazine go, I will miss the alpine coverage the most since it isn't 
covered as well in Climbing, and not at all in Rock & Ice.
-- 
                 -=---------  Michael C. Whitman
               ---===-------  National System Engineer - Telecom
             -----=====-----  Pyramid Technology Corporation
           -------=======---  1921 Gallows Road, Suite 250
         ---------=========-  Vienna, VA 22182

	Phone: (703) 848-2050	Pager: (800)sky-page pin# 45300
	    mike@pyrdc.va.pyramid.com -or- uunet!pyrdc!mike
Newsgroups: rec.climbing
From: davin@hardy.u.washington.edu (David Veale)
Subject: Randonee skis for sale
Organization: University of Washington
Date: Tue, 6 Oct 1992 22:14:05 GMT


Alpine Touring /Randonee Ski Gear for Sale:
-Hagan Alpina skis, 180 cm, in good condition
-Silvretta bindings
-Dynafit Tourlite boots,  extremely light  (size 11-11.5)
-Coll-Tex mohair skins, the best
	Cost $700 new (on sale & with package prices)  asking $425
	If interested,  reply via e-mail or call Dave @ 206-528-5765 (Seattle)

Newsgroups: rec.climbing
From: eru@titlis.zurich.ibm.com (Erich Ruetsche)
Subject: Re: Artificial Walls
Date: Wed, 30 Sep 92 07:20:20 GMT
Reply-To: eru@titlis.zurich.ibm.com (Erich Ruetsche)
Organization: IBM Zurich Research


I built several artificial climbing walls. The cheapest way to build a wall is 
with a wooden structures and holds are fixed with bolts. The wooden structure
MUST be overhanging and the holds exchangable so that you can change your boulders.
If all is fixed and only vertical it soon gets booring. Its not worth to treat 
the surface of the wall unless you really want to structure the wall. 

My private wall (4*4,5 m) which I built under the roof framework costs about 
500 Swiss Fr. including wood, bolts and holds. I guess I would be MUCH cheaper in
any other place of the world. The holds are a very important thing:
be shure to buy holds with a very smoth surface, your skin will be grateful after
2 hours of training. Rough holds should only be used for competitions or public
climbing walls.  

Erich Ruetsche   --    climbing and living in the swiss alpes .......
eru@zurich.ibm.com 
Newsgroups: rec.climbing
From: AS.MSW@forsythe.stanford.edu (Marc Whitney)
Subject: Re: how to string chocks with spectra/plastic tubing?
Organization: Stanford University, California, USA
Distribution: usa
Date: Thu, 1 Oct 1992 17:59:28 GMT

In article <1992Sep30.163237.20274@nntpd2.cxo.dec.com>,
susswein@anrchy.cxo.dec.com (Steve Susswein) writes:
>
>I decided that it's finally time to restring my old stoppers, and
>decided to use spectra cord instead of perlon.  Since the spectra is
>only 5.5 mm in diameter (vs. 8mm for the perlon) I got some plastic
>tubing to ensure a tight fit.  The problem is that the fit is *too*
>tight, and after trying different things for a couple of hours last
>night I still can't get the spectra and plastic tube to fit through the
>holes in the stopper.
>
I had the same problem a couple of years ago.  A little soapy (very
mild soap like Ivory) water applied to the plastic and to the
stoppers helped.  I doubted soap would hurn spectra but I rinsed
thoroughly after.
Newsgroups: rec.climbing
From: allen%asylum.cs.utah.edu@cs.utah.edu (Allen Sanderson)
Subject: Re: Lubricating Cams
Date: 6 Oct 92 16:15:30 MDT
Organization: University of Utah CS Dept
Distribution: na

gustave@ada.seas.ucla.edu (Gustave R. Stroes) writes:
>I was wondering if anyone out there has any advice on what
>to use to lubricate the various moving parts on climbing
>equipment (carabiners, cams etc.).

The best solution I have found is to clean the equipment with soapy hot
water first. I use Tri-Flow on the moving points, wiping off the excess.
WD-40 will actually attract dirt so it is not reccomended.

Allen

PS Tri-Flow is a silicon if I remember correctly.



From: byrnes@hpfcso.FC.HP.COM (John Byrnes)
Date: Mon, 5 Oct 1992 15:56:15 GMT
Subject: Re: how to string chocks with spectra/plastic tubing?
Organization: Hewlett-Packard, Fort Collins, CO, USA
Newsgroups: rec.climbing

> 
> Has anyone who's succeeded in doing this send me some instructions?
>

Forget the tubing and use regular climbing tape (you know, the stuff you
use on your hands and fingers).

Wrap enough tape on the cord so that you can just barely pull it into
the nut.  The tape will deform a little and "lock" into the nut, avoiding
the "cord slips through nut" problems when you're trying to remove them.

John

Newsgroups: rec.climbing
From: davin@hardy.u.washington.edu (David Veale)
Subject: ALPINE TOURING SKIS FOR SALE
	Cost $700 new (on sale & with package prices)  asking $425
	If interested,  reply via e-mail or call Dave @ 206-528-5765 (Seattle)
Organization: University of Washington
Date: Tue, 29 Sep 1992 17:50:46 GMT