From: agr00@ccc.amdahl.com (Anthony G Rose)
Newsgroups: talk.religion.misc
Subject: Re: Spin doctor... [was Re: Mormon Usenet Forum
Date: 16 Oct 92 04:43:18 GMT
Reply-To: agr00@JUTS.ccc.amdahl.com (Anthony G Rose)
Organization: Amdahl Corporation, Sunnyvale CA

>	I really hope that whichever of us is wrong about Joseph Smith's First
>Vision comes to a knowledge of the truth bye and bye.

I mean this as an honest question, not an attack, but IF what you
believed about Joseph Smith's first vision, is false, would you want to
know about it?

>	I would like to know what you propose I use for a religion in the place
>of Mormonism should you succeed in convincing me that Joseph Smith was a liar
>or a lunatic.  The primary reason I have believed Joseph Smith is that I have
>found in the Mormon teachings a remarkable, internal consistency in the
>doctrines.  I find no such internal consistency in the teachings of any other
>Christian denomination.

Consistancy?  In the LDS church?  I don't mean to sound rude, but that is
the reason I can't beleive it IS true, because of the inconsistancy!
1)  Polygamy use to be legal, now it isn't.
2)  Blacks didn't use to be able to hold the priesthood, now they can.
3)  The sacred temple ceremonies were sacred, that is until 1990 when they
    were changed. Or is the new ones the sacred ones?

I see these and several other doctrines that have indeed changed over the
years.  What changes have taken place in the Christian doctrines?

>
>	A lie MAY be consistent with itself.  The truth MUST be consistent with
>itself.  Every system of mainstream Christian doctrine seems hopelessly
>self-contradictory to me.  Hence they must be false.

Can you name a few?  Maybe your understanding of them are contridictory.
When I think of contridiction, I think of the LDS Scriptures.

ONE GOD:                                PLURAL GODS:
Alma 11:27-39, 44                       D&C 121:32
2 Nephi 31:21                           D&C 132:18-20,37
Mormon 7:7
3 Nephi 11:27
Testimony of Three Witnesses

GOD IS A SPIRIT:                        GOD HAS A BODY:
Alma 18:26-28                           D&C 130:22
Alma 22:8-11

GOD DWELLS IN HEART:                    GOD DOESN'T DWELL IN HEART:
Alma 34:36                              D&C 130:3

CREATION - ONE GOD:                     CREATION - PLURAL GODS:
2 Nephi 2:14                            PGP-Abraham, Chapt 4&5
Jacob 4:9
PGP-Moses, Chapt 2

NO PRE_EXISTANCE OF MAN:                MAN PRE-EXISTED:
Jacob 4:9                               D&C 93:23,29-33
Alma 18:28, 34-36                       PGP-Abraham, 3:18,21-23

DEATH SEALS MAN'S FATE:                 CHANCE AFTER DEATH:
Mosiah 2:36-39                          D&C 76:106-112
Alma 34:32-35                           D&C 88:99

HEATHEN SAVED WITHOUT BAPTISM:          BAPTISM FOR THE DEAD:
Moroni 8:22-23                          D&C 128:5
2 Nephi 9:25-26
Mosiah 15:24-27

HEAVEN OR HELL:                         3 KINGDOMS IN HEAVEN-MOST SAVED:
2 Nephi 28:22                           D&C 76:43, 70-112
1 Nephi 15:35
Mosiah 16:11
Mosiah 27:31
Alma 41:4-8
Alma 42:16

POLYGAMY CONDEMED:                      POLYGAMY COMMANDED:
Jacob 1:15                              D&C 132:1, 37-39,61
Jacob 2:24
Jacob 3:5
Mosiah 11:2

AGAINST PAID MINISTRY:                  FOR PAID MINISTRY:
2 Nephi 26:31                           D&C 42:71-73
Mosiah 27:5                             D&C 43:12-13
                                        D&C 51:13-14

ADAM IN AMERICA:                        ADAM IN OLD WORLD:
D&C 107:53                              PGP-Moses 3:13
D&C 116
D&C 117:8

>	I will remain a devout Mormon until I find a system of doctrine that
>better answers all my religious questions without asking me to accept doctrine
>that is patently absurd because it contradicts itself and reason.

What are your religious questions?  Maybe we can help.  I would like to
help if I can.

>	Tearing down my faith does no good at all unless you can offer me
>something better.

I am not trying to "tear down your faith".  It bothers me when I see
people whom Christ died for placing the eternity of their souls in a lie.
I don't know you, but I do know that we are all brothers, and don't want
you to end up in an eternity you didn't plan for.

I can't offer you anything, but Christ can.  It doesn't matter how much
you know ABOUT Jesus, what matters is that you KNOW Him.  If you
remember, in John 14:6, Jesus said, "I am the way....".  He didn't say
that his church was the way, or this was the way.  He said, "I AM THE
WAY!".  He said that he was the door to the sheep pen, and trying to come
up any other way was the same as being a theif.

Put your all your trust in Jesus, admit you are a sinner and can do
nothing about it.  Thank Jesus for finishing the job for you and then
offering it to you as a gift!  Not for you to work for, but as a gift!
If you work for it, it is no longer a gift, it is a wage.  Jesus offers
eternal life to us as a GIFT!  Will you accept the gift or deny it and
continue to try to work your way to heaven?

If you need help, write me personally.  I do care!

Sincerely,
-tony

     "AM I THEREFORE BECOME YOUR ENEMY BECAUSE I TELL YOU THE TRUTH?"
                                                -Galatians 4:16