HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: ag@gserv1.dl.ac.uk (Old Wolf)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.asean
Subject: Re: Environment - Singapore
Date: 1 Oct 92 13:28:07 GMT
Reply-To: ag@gserv1.dl.ac.uk
Organization: Daresbury Laboratory, UK

In article 1762@ntuix.ntu.ac.sg, eoahmad@ntuix.ntu.ac.sg (Othman Ahmad) writes:
>ag@gserv1.dl.ac.uk (Old Wolf) writes:
>
>You must be one of those green fanatics.
>: 

No, I am certainly not a fanatic.
>
>Don't you know that nature itself recycles wastes, even human waste.

I was only referring to non-biodegradable items. I apologise for not
making myself clear on this point.

>: expensive at first (initial costs of recycling plant),
>: but in the long term it will always be worth it. It is
>
>Artificial recycling is only necessary of the rate of waste disposal is
>higher than natureal decomposition.
>

Agreed.

>: not acceptable to continue damaging the environment
>: just because of human greed and short-sightedness.
>
>It is not acceptable to enforce artificial recycling when it is not necessary.
>Imagine building toilets in the jungle for the tigers, elephants and recycle
>those wastes.

Agreed.

>
>:  During those sixty seconds of biological time, modern
>: man has made a rubbish tip of Paradise.
>:  Humans have multiplied their numbers to plague
>: proportions, caused the extinction of over 500 species
>: of animals, ransacked the planet for fuels, and now
>: stand like brutish infants over their meteoric rise
>: to ascendancy, on the constant brink of war, and of
>: effectively destroying this oasis of life in the
>: solar system.
>guess who invented the recycling ideas, not the animals.

True, humans invented the idea. Pity they do not use it
enough.
I also do not see the need for humans to spoil the 
environment, often deliberately.
Having made a mess, many do not clear up afterwards.
This applies too the smallest litter-bug, upto the
largest multi-national companies.

>
>--
>Othman bin Ahmad, School of EEE,
>Nanyang Technological University, Singapore 2263.
>Internet Email: eoahmad@ntuix.ntu.ac.sg
>Bitnet Email: eoahmad@ntuvax.bitnet
Newsgroups: soc.culture.asean
From: wloo@eng.umd.edu (Weekhuan Loo)
Subject:  Computer Contracts in S'pore (Was: Re: EE jobs in Singapore) Computer Contracts in S'pore (Was: Re: EE jobs in
Date: Fri, 02 Oct 92 00:09:03 GMT
Organization: College of Engineering, University of Maryland, College Park
Followup-To:  madsere@okys.infoserv.com (Rene Madsen)
Originator: wloo@apache.eng.umd.edu


Singapore)Hi 
Keywords: 

 Hi Rene,
  So you are interested in finding a job in Singapore.

 One suggestion is to look it up in the Asean Wall Street Journal.
  
  About the contracts,...
 
 Sorry. But I do know that most international companies have
 some sort of contracts with Singapore.

 Check that companies like IBM, Data General, Novell(I think?), etc.

 I hope that help. Good luck in your job hunting!


 --Loo Wee Khuan
From: aq668@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Candy Lee)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.asean
Subject: Re: Illegal March by 1000 Indians at Batu Caves
Date: 6 Oct 1992 21:59:04 GMT
Organization: Case Western Reserve University, Cleveland, OH (USA)
Reply-To: aq668@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Candy Lee)
NNTP-Posting-Host: hela.ins.cwru.edu


In a previous article, cheu@venus.its.uci.edu (Kelvin Cheu) says:

>
>stuff deleted
>
>|> 	It  only shows the mentality of Malaysians. They prefer well known
>|> elements rather than risk with new unknown leaders. However the Chinese
>|> chief minister of Penang is very young, much younger than Anuar Ibrahim.


Somehow I tend to think that Othman Ahmad is implicitly critiquing the
word "Chinese" rather than "youth" in the above statement.  :(

>|> 	
>|> 
>|> --
>|> Othman bin Ahmad, School of EEE,
>|> Nanyang Technological University
>|> 
>
>At least the chief minister of Penang has a PhD !!!
>I hope he is different from Dr Neo Y P (in MCA few years ago).
>Anwar Ibrahim - IMHO he used to be a radical.  I've seen him in one TV
>interview (in SBC), speaking in English.  He didn't answer the 
>question - just going around the bushes. I was not impressed.

Hmmm...sounds familiar, eh? I wonder if Anwar also spells potato with an
"e". On second thoughts, he might just spell it as "ubi-e".  :)


>What about Badawi (sp?) from Butterworth ?

What about him?

>
>Kelvin
>
--
From: laicheng@tartarus.uwa.edu.au (Lai Cheng Lam)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.asean
Subject: Re: Malaysia: Dates for Hari Raya and Chinese New Year?
Date: 6 Oct 92 15:47:07 GMT
Article-I.D.: uniwa.1ascdrINNknu
Organization: The University of Westrn Australia
NNTP-Posting-Host: tartarus.uwa.edu.au
X-Newsreader: Tin 1.1 PL5

Joe Hamlin (hamlin@afit.af.mil) wrote:
: We are planning a trip to Malaysia (sometime in the first
: quarter of 1993). Could someone supply me with the dates
: for Chinese New year and Hari Raya?
: 
: Thank you,
: Joe Hamlin

I'm not sure when Hari Raya is, but Chinese New Year is somewhere at the
end of January. If you want some real taste of Malaysia before a
festival, come a bit earlier.

Hope you enjoy your stay ... who knows, I might even bump into you
there!

Elsie.
laicheng@tartarus.uwa.edu.au
Newsgroups: soc.culture.asean
From: psgoh@pieman.compserv.utas.edu.au (Pauline S.C. Goh)
Subject: Re: DR. MAHATHIR - HEART FAILURE?!?!?!
Organization: University of Tasmania at Launceston
Date: Fri, 2 Oct 92 11:27:59 GMT

In article <4900037@hpcc01.corp.hp.com>, leongaw@hpcc01.corp.hp.com (Ak Wing Leong) writes:
>
>No, not true. What is your source ?

Old faithful - Newsgroup.

But yes, all false rumour!! 
Sigh of relieve..??

Goh.
From: hpyeo@IASTATE.EDU (Sandy)
Subject: Re: School ranking
Reply-To: hpyeo@IASTATE.EDU (Sandy)
Organization: Iowa State University
Date: Tue, 6 Oct 1992 00:07:16 GMT

>     Dunman is well-known to people living in the East Coast Area, for
>example Katong and Marine Parade.  I heard that Dunman High has taken over
>the buildings that belonged to Dunman Secondary now.  The school has also
>become independent.  I am not from Dunman, but from one of the neighbouring
>schools.

oh. Dunman had taken over Dunman Sec now?? They took over Dunman Pri years ago,
cuz not enough classrooms for the students.. Now they even invade Dunman Sec?
(by the way. I am from DHS.. and NEVER PROUD of it.) 

Oh, one more question.. DHS is an independent school now?? when did it go
independent??

Thanx.

Sandy
Newsgroups: soc.culture.asean
From: 901323h@dragon.acadiau.ca (Heng Siek Hsien)
Subject: Teck Ghee Primary 
Organization: Acadia University
Distribution: soc.culture.asean
Date: Sun, 4 Oct 1992 15:29:57 GMT

Just wonder anyone out there is from Teck Ghee Pri. (Ang Mo Kio).
I know there are couple of friends who are now in NTU/NUS. 
Hope to get in touch.   

- Heng
901323h@dragon.acadiau.ca
From: z_totahmc@ccsvax.sfasu.edu
Newsgroups: soc.culture.asean
Subject: Help with Malaysia Research
Date: 29 Sep 92 16:05:40 GMT
Article-I.D.: ccsvax.1992Sep29.100540.1243
Organization: Stephen F. Austin State University

Does anyone know how I can obtain information from 1988-1992 on Malaysia
its economic figures, foriegn investment, culture, etc.
My library is very inadequate.
Z_totahmc@cccsvax.sfasu.edu
Newsgroups: soc.culture.asean
From: u907736@postoffice.utas.edu.au (Edmund Chia)
Subject: Re: Defense of S'pore; was about F16 & Mig29
Organization: University of Tasmania (Australia)
Date: Sat, 26 Sep 1992 05:44:56 GMT

In article <1992Sep23.142140.3444@news.ysu.edu>, af620@yfn.ysu.edu (Andrew Tan) writes:
> 
> 
> In a previous article, af620@yfn.ysu.edu (Andrew Tan) says:

(stuff deleted)

> Heyy, Lau...got one more method for you. Instead of Indonesia burning their
> islands/forests on fire to choke y'all, how about lining the population
> (you know they have zimillions of people) up near the beaches and all
> FART at the same time? Are you all ready to face the consequences? Gas masks
> ready???

What happens when the wind suddenly blows the wrong way? What a horrible way to die.

Edmund
Newsgroups: soc.culture.asean
From: psgoh@pieman.compserv.utas.edu.au (Pauline S.C. Goh)
Subject: Re: DR. MAHATHIR - HEART FAILURE?!?!?!
Organization: University of Tasmania at Launceston
Date: Sun, 27 Sep 92 21:19:25 GMT

Dr. Mahathir - Heart Failure????

This is sad....

Anyone from ,Malaysia or Singapore with latest news..??

Please keep us informed...

Goh.

Newsgroups: soc.culture.asean
From: ktan@luke.eecs.wsu.edu (Kaiswee Tan - EECS (cpts330))
Subject: Mat Setia and satellite parabolic antenna 
Organization: Washington State University!
Date: Tue, 6 Oct 92 20:05:51 GMT



 According to the NST, Information Minister of Malaysia Datuk Mohamad Rahmat
 stunned reporters last week when he admitted that he owned a satellite
 parabolic antenna.
 His statement followed a report in the Malay Mail that a Kuala Lumpur resident
 had such an equipment on his verandah. The newspaper carried a picture of the
 equipment but did not say where it was taken. It only said that the house was
 located in 'an affluent neighbourhood in the city'.
 REcently, the cabinet ordered that all privately owned parabolic antenna be
 dismantled and their users prosecuted.
 The ban was enforced for fear that direct broadcasting would make undesirable
 shows, including pornographic ones, easily accessible to the public.
 Datuk Mohamad Rahmat had said that ONLY the King, the Prime Minister, the Malay rulers, and foreign missions here were permitted to install this equipment.
 The Telecommunications Act prohibits unauthorised use of satellite dishes and   offenders can be fined M$100,000 or three years in jail or both.
 So, what do you guys think of this case? I reckon Yang Berhomat 'Mat Setia'
 should do what Datuk Bandar just did... Resign.


 Kai
From: iscksc@nuscc.nus.sg (Mr Khoo Siau Cheng)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.asean
Subject: Re: SINGAPORE LAWS
Date: 1 Oct 92 07:01:38 GMT
Organization: National University of Singapore

In article <1992Oct1.022832.3458@umr.edu> kc@ee.umr.edu (Kok Ching
Ong) writes:
>
>I believe the above issues like ISA and freedom of speech are true concerns 
>of whether a country is democratic or other wise.
>

I agree. 

> [Stuff deleted]
>
>The Toilet and Gum Ban Laws seem silly to me.
>Instead of fining someone, and have the culprit's
>face shown on the newspapers, they can just install sensors to flush after one
>has used it.  Or just have the toilet flush itself every couple of minutes.
>These laws, IMHO, are set up ad hoc as "quick fixes" to curb certain
>undesirable human social behavior.  I still prefer instilling civic mindedness
>as a long term measure to change human behavior.
>

May be imposing laws is an ineffective way to instil civic mindedness,
but neither is the installation of sensors to flush after one has used
it. During the recent power failure, I went to one of the toilets in
Upper Serangoon Shopping center, and found that the place stink,
because the sensors did not function. This won't be a problem if
manual flush is used.  

-- Siau Cheng
From: mlt@gdwb.oz.au (Mee Teng)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.asean
Subject: Re: scholarship: a joke ? ( was: UM )
Date: 1 Oct 92 01:04:31 GMT

goh@bode.usc.edu (K.C.Goh) writes:
>At present, JPA gives out at least 10-20 (would this be 0.01%?
>At least a few of these scholarships are given to those with no
>connections whatsoever.  Trust me, I know, 'cos my brothers were

Mr. Goh, with 1 billion riggit to spend a simple conservative
calculation will put the number of scholarships down the drain as
30 - 40000 thousands ? Secondly I am not denying that some 
scholarships are given without any so called 'connections'.
But even if 3 were given because of 'connections' out of say 10
is already considered rampant. The whole issue here is not a matter
of whether Chinese are given any scholarships or whether Chinese
read any newspaperss (I am sure they do - certainly not less
than the bumis), but the hard swallowing facts are that so many
scholarships are given out by the government blindly
(I hate to use the word) just because they are bumis and what is
splashed (not even spilled) over come to the non-bumis. Are we then
to bow our heads and be contended and thanksful ? And keep quiet
and admit that there are so few Chinese students without
scholarships is because we seldom read newspapers or we are rich
as En. Othman pointed out ???? & seconded by Mr. Lee(1st part only. Mr. Lee
may consider himself poor even if he is driving a Mercedes as put
by En. Othman !)
How many of you know the truth about residential schools & the 
Mara colleges ?? And the ways the students are being indoctrinated ???
From: aq668@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Candy Lee)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.asean
Subject: Re: Defense of S'pore; was about F16 & Mig29
Date: 27 Sep 92 16:51:35 GMT
Reply-To: aq668@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Candy Lee)
Organization: Case Western Reserve University, Cleveland, OH (USA)
NNTP-Posting-Host: hela.ins.cwru.edu


In a previous article, eoahmad@ntuix.ntu.ac.sg (Othman Ahmad) says:

>It is just as excuse by these young Singaporeans to justify their hard
>national service in offensive operations in the jungle to secure their
>water source so that they can wash their cars, have shower baths, swimming
>pools and call these as basic necessities.

Somehow I find it hard to DIS-agree with Othman on this issue.


>	I'm sure the military commands of both countries had known about
>all the possibilities, it is just these "hot blooded young Singaporeans",
>who had been left ignorant.

Ditto.


>Othman bin Ahmad, School of EEE,
>Nanyang Technological University, Singapore 2263.
>Internet Email: eoahmad@ntuix.ntu.ac.sg
>Bitnet Email: eoahmad@ntuvax.bitnet

--
From: mlt@gdwb.oz.au (Mee Teng)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.asean
Subject: Re: scholarship: a joke ? ( was: UM )
Date: 1 Oct 92 06:39:51 GMT

wslee@almond-frost.ai.mit.edu (Whay S. Lee) writes:
>	I think I agree with Othman.  It seems to me that far too many chinese 
>are using the scarcity of opportunities as excuse, and just give up, stop trying.  
>|> 	I also have a chinese couple who got JPA scholarships and graduated
>|> in 1990, so I'm not just taliking about 1970s. Most of my experiences are in

>	1988 .  [ I am not THAT old, you know ... 8-) ... ]

Mr. Lee I have no intention of flaming you. Firstly, you are too young!
Secondly, you got the scholarships so you are quite contended ! Thirdly,
they may marked you if you dare to 'speak up ' especially a young man
with a bright future like you. But I have to stand up for those non-
bumis (tens of thousands I am sure !) who are accused of not getting
any scholarships because of their own ignorant ! (not reading
newspaper etc. etc. )  Consider the questions below, Mr. Lee .
1. How many scholarships are advertised by all the hundred organisations
you mentioned ? Divide that by half (I assume half will go to non-bumis
. try to be optimistic :)) 
2. How many non-bumis are fighting for the above scholarships ? 
3. Do you mean that the bumis actually look out for the advertisements
more than the non-bumis ? 
4. Shall we just look at the above scholarships at the most a couple
of thousands (try to be optimistics again !). ?
5. Have you ever asked yourself why are there so many bumis on
scholarships in the local Unis ? Not to even mention the overseas ???
Are they all outstanding & needy students ? Why are we arguing about
the relatively small number of non-government scholarships and
shut our mouths on the big ONE ? Worst still admit that we were
sleeping and know not there are so many scholarships around to 
grap ? Why should only non-bumis be made to fight for the limited
number of places ?
6. How many scholarships (call it loans if you like. The fact is
they are scholarships. ) are given out to the bumis ? Most of them
without them even do anything !! And are offered even to the PHD
level ? En.Othman can fool some people some time, but not all 
the people all the time.
Newsgroups: soc.culture.asean
Subject: ordering "New Straits Time"
From: tva@vax1.mankato.msus.edu
Date: 2 Oct 92 18:35:02 -0600
Organization: Mankato State University



 Hi !    We would like to know some of the information regarding the procedure
         to order the " New Straits Time " or " Nan Yang Shang Phao" from one
of the publisher in U.S . If anyone know that, please send the information to
us. Thanks in advance.
    

          
          

 
From: leongaw@hpcc01.corp.hp.com (Ak Wing Leong)
Date: Wed, 30 Sep 1992 08:57:55 GMT
Subject: Re: DR. MAHATHIR - HEART FAILURE?!?!?!
Organization: the HP Corporate notes server
Newsgroups: soc.culture.asean

No, not true. What is your source ?
Newsgroups: soc.culture.asean
From: engp1186@nuscc.nus.sg (Won-Soon Lau)
Subject: Singapore river (was: Info on Mount & Kota Kinabalu)
Organization: National University of Singapore
X-Newsreader: Tin 1.1 PL5
Date: Thu, 1 Oct 1992 13:02:23 GMT

Edmund Chia (u907736@postoffice.utas.edu.au) wrote:
: 
: I agree. The Singapore River does look and smell better than before.
: However, has anyone EVER caught any fishes from it. I remember sepnding
: several nights there without catching anything after reading a S.T. 
: articles on fish and prawns being found in the river - or was it 'con-job'
: to convince people that the river was rehabilitated.
: 
Maybe your luck wasn't so good then. :-) The only time I fished there right 
behind the UOB bank and I caught a few fishes.  Mostly those small one with
a black dot near the tail.  I did caught a big one, about 1 kg but
unfortunately I don't dare to eat that fish -- a puffer fish :-<
(hey there, wanna eat puffer fish?  Come to Singapore then :-)

I really can't agree with you that it is a 'con-job'.  My own eyes saw
other fishes caught by people.  PPD (Primary Production Department) is
trying real hard to bring lives back to the once stink and dirty river.
Once in a while, some fishes are release into the river.  It is not a
easy job to clean up a river which has been contaminated for decades
in just a few years.  Don't you agree that it is so much better now.

-WS
-- 
VLSI DESIGN & CAD LABORATORY          \  Internet: engp1186@nuscc.nus.sg
Dept of Electrical Engineering         \  Bitnet:  ENGP2065@NUSVM.bitnet      
National University of Singapore        \  Phone:  (+65) 772 6319       
10, Kent Ridge Crescent. Singapore 0511. \______________________________
Newsgroups: soc.culture.asean
From: sci240s@monu6.cc.monash.edu.au (Wey Jing HO)
Subject: Re: Muslims converting to other religions in England!
Organization: Monash University, Melb., Australia.
Date: Tue, 6 Oct 1992 23:13:06 GMT

In <1992Oct6.083520.14166@ntuix.ntu.ac.sg> eoahmad@ntuix.ntu.ac.sg (Othman Ahmad) writes:

>siong@fraser.sfu.ca (Siong Heng Chan) writes:
>: be eligible to hold scholarships given to bumis only.  The question is, I 
>: thought that Bumiputera status is actually refering to the "RACE" and not

>If you are a  Malaysian, You should know you the Malaysian constitution which
>defines a Malay as a muslim with "Malay culture". I do not think there is 
                      ^^^^^^
>any mention of religion.
                ^^^^^^^^

Are you correct here? If you are, and if I read it correctly, you mean to say
that muslim is not people who believe in certain (namely, Islam) religion?

-- 
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>Wey Jing Ho    Tel: 61-3-573-2567   E-mail : sci240s@monu6.cc.monash.edu.au<
>Physics Dept., Monash University ( Caulfield Campus ), Melbourne, AUSTRALIA<
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Newsgroups: soc.culture.asean
From: guiyu@spectra (Kui Yu Chang)
Subject: Nanyang Pri / CHS / HCJC
Organization: University of Hawaii, Dept. of Electrical Engineering
Date: Thu, 1 Oct 1992 02:22:58 GMT

LOOKING FOR
		FRIENDS
		CLASSMATES
		SCHOOLMATES
	FROM
		Nanyang Primary
		CHS
		HCJC

================================================================================
  _  __                    _ 		ADDRESS: CHANG Kui Yu
  _||__       _|_       | |_|			 2440 Date Street #1002
 |_ |__      __|__     \|/|_|			 Honolulu, HI 96826	
   |+---                | _|_			 U.S.A.	
   ||\/       _|_       / \ /
  \|L \      __|__     / \---		E-mail : guiyu@spectra.eng.hawaii.edu
================================================================================
From: guiyu@spectra (Kui Yu Chang)
Subject: Re: SINGAPORE LAWSE
Organization: University of Hawaii, Dept. of Electrical Engineering
Date: Tue, 6 Oct 1992 09:16:09 GMT

BEFORE Singapore can ATTAIN the stature of a modern and civilized country, we
have to TRAIN/DISCIPLINE ourselves by means of TOUGH laws. 

Simultaneously, we are also venturing to instill civic awareness into our 
citizens via EDUCATION in school, public CAMPAIGNS, etc.

Other countries have taken usually the *2nd* option (education), but that will
need time(a few generations) and TIME we have NOT.

In Singapore, we believe that having a DISINCENTIVE will speed up the process.

So, if YOU happen to come from some already CLEAN society, please BEAR with us,
your SOCIETY has gone through all these before ALSO, maybe to a lesser degree
over a longer period of time.

To use an ANALOGY, a well behaved child may feel uncomfortable seeing his friend
being dealt severly with by his parents for every miniscule wrongdoing. I know,
I know, the government should NOT be interpreted as a PARENT, but that is how
I personally feel.

OPINIONS ARE MINE'S




================================================================================
  _  __                    _ 		ADDRESS: CHANG Kui Yu
  _||__       _|_       | |_|			 2440 Date Street #1002
 |_ |__      __|__     \|/|_|			 Honolulu, HI 96826	
   |+---                | _|_			 U.S.A.	
   ||\/       _|_       / \ /
  \|L \      __|__     / \---		E-mail : guiyu@spectra.eng.hawaii.edu
================================================================================
From: fellow@cs.utexas.edu (Heng Wei Osbert Tan)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.asean
Subject: Why they smiled ...
Date: 30 Sep 1992 16:41:44 -0500
Organization: CS Dept, University of Texas at Austin
NNTP-Posting-Host: estoril.cs.utexas.edu

Following excerpt is extracted from BusinessWeek Oct 5 issue, reproduced
without permission. Please read BusinessWeek for it's entirety.
__________________________________________________________________________

             Peace Reigns, but Asia is Stockpiling Arms
             __________________________________________

While most of the world is cutting its military forces, Asia is on an
arms-buying spree.

[...]If defense companies are cheering, Asia analyst are not. Some worry
that such sales will fuel an arms race that could turn up the heat on a host
of smoldering regional disputes.

[...]sales to Asia are likely to soar as the region's fast growing economies 
allow its militaries to soup up aging arsenals. Most defense budgets in the
the region are growing at 5% to 10% over inflation.

[...]Once an afterthought, Asia is now prime turf for arms merchants. Already
Singapore, Thailand and Indonesia want to buy more F-16s, and Malaysia is
interested in Subs. Along with the U.S., competitors for Asian business
include France, Britain, Germany, and Italy. "Exports may spell the difference
between survival and being swallowed up, so you'll see hardball over every
sale" in Asia, predicts Joel Johnson, a vice-president at the Aerospace 
Industries Association of America.

[...]With more and more weapons flowing into the region, the risk is greater
that minor skirmishes could escalate. Washington may some day come to rue its
nonchalance about weapons exports to Asia.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Now Tai, perhaps now you understand how the "rest of the world" set and 
"smiled".

-Osbert


-- 
                                     _ _
---------------------------------ooo--U--ooo------------------------------------
fellow@cs.utexas.edu  Standard disclaimer applies. My opinions are, simply mine.
"heng2 mei2 leng3 dui4 qian1 fu1 zi3, fu2 shao3 gan1 wei2 ru2 zi3 nu2" Lu3 Xiu4
Newsgroups: soc.culture.asean