HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: spl@alex.uucp (Steve Lamont)
Newsgroups: comp.unix.cray
Subject: Re: How expensive is a cray?  (was: How big is a cray?)
Date: 8 Apr 1992 18:53:43 GMT
Organization: University of Calif., San Diego/Microscopy and Imaging Resource
NNTP-Posting-Host: alex.ucsd.edu

In article <271@moene.UUCP> toon@moene.uucp (Toon Moene) writes:
>      ... I just wondered if the YMP-EL fell more in the class of 'home  
>computers' :-) in that it is 1) air cooled, 2) powered at normal appliance  
>voltages (220 V here), 3) can operate at room temperatures, 4) doesn't  
>need a special dust free environment, and 5) is within the budget of  
>individuals.  Sure someone from CRI can fill us in on the details ...

The EL can indeed run in the environment that you describe.  Its the
sort of "departmental supercomputer" that brought such fabulous
success to SCS and Supertek.  In fact, the Y-MP/EL is a pretty much
linear descendant of the Supertek S-1, a sort of low powered X-MP
clone, which, when Cray bought Supertek out, became the Cray X-MS.
The Y-MP/EL was originally going to be called the YMS (Y-MS?) as I
recall.

I've seen X-MSes running in office type environments.  Y-MSes are
supposed to run in much the same environment.

As far as "within the budget of individuals" goes... your budget must
be larger than those of us toiling in the vineyards of academia. :-)

						spl (the p stands for
						Perot, H. Ross's budget,
						maybe...)
-- 
Steve Lamont, SciViGuy -- (619) 534-7968 -- spl@dim.ucsd.edu
UCSD Microscopy and Imaging Resource/UCSD Med School/La Jolla, CA 92093-0608
"In the room women come and go/Talking of Michelangelo."
                           - T.S. Eliot, "The Love Song of J. Alfred Prufrock"
Newsgroups: comp.unix.cray
From: jbyrd@chpc.utexas.edu (Jan Byrd)
Subject: bftp
Reply-To: jbyrd@chpc.utexas.edu (Jan Byrd)
Organization: Center for High Performance Computing, Univ. of Texas System
Date: Thu, 9 Apr 92 16:20:58 GMT

Has anyone had any experience with using bftp (Background File Transfer
Program) to move files to a Cray in anticipation of their use in an NQS 
job (and after, to move files FROM the Cray)?  I'm interested in knowing 
what need bftp is serving at your site.

Some of our users have been using VMS/Cray stations which are being
removed soon, and they don't like "rcp" as the alternative to the "fetch"
and "dispose" commands they've become so attached to because of (1) rcp 
isn't persistent; it tries only once to copy the file before it gives up, 
and (2) rcp requires .rhosts files on both the Cray and the remote machines,
and they hope to avoid that.

Jan
From: yamo@wk209.nas.nasa.gov (Michael Yamasaki)
Newsgroups: comp.unix.cray
Subject: Re: How big is a cray?
Date: 8 Apr 92 16:54:20 GMT
Organization: NAS, NASA Ames Research Center, Moffett Field, CA

In a bunch of articles:
>>>>
>>>>When we got to Cray, the following comparison was put forth:
>>>>
>>>>A Cray used in jet fighter simulators generates 32 graphic pictures a
>>>>second.   If a Macintosh were given the task of generating just one of
>>>>those pictures, it would require 30 years.
>>>
>>>Your teacher spake with forked tongue.... 
>>>[...]  (by the way, the factor of 1,000 is now WWWAAAYYY too high)
>>>
>> [...]
>>At 32 frames per sec for the Cray gives:
>>
>>  0.031sec/frame (Cray)  vs.  161 sec/frame (Mac)  => Cray = ~5200 x Mac.
>>
>alright, already.  So I only missed it by two orders of magnitude? 

Of course you could suppose that the computation ranged over say a GB or
two of main memory. It's not too much of a stretch to figure another two or
three orders of magnitude...


                                      -Yamo-
                             Michael J. Gerald-Yamasaki
                                 yamo@nas.nasa.gov
                              yamo@wk209.nas.nasa.gov
                     {ncar, decwrl, hplabs, uunet}!ames!amelia!yamo
Newsgroups: comp.unix.cray
From: ldm@texhrc.uucp (Lyle Meier)
Subject: Re Bftp
Organization: Texaco EPTD
Date: Sat, 11 Apr 1992 03:13:28 GMT


Organization: Texaco EPTD
If your cray is running unicos 6.0 or higher look at the file transfer agent package.
This appears as ftua on the user man pages and fta in the administrator package.

This tries and tries until the file suceeds. It is cray value added to unicos.


Newsgroups: comp.unix.cray
From: dre@cray.com (Dennis Ellis)
Subject: Re: How expensive is a cray?  (was: How big is a cray?)
Organization: Cray Research Inc
Date: 6 Apr 92 16:46:31 CDT

In article <1992Apr6.023836.19469@cis.uab.edu> hyatt@cis.uab.edu (Robert Hyatt) writes:
>
>I think you (we) are talking about two different machines.  The YMP-EL is not
>the same as the YMP that I saw sitting at Supercomputing '91.  They had a
>"wimpel" (YMPEL) there, but it is MUCH smaller than the YMP box.  The YMP
>I saw was (I believe) a 2 processor machine running at 6.0ns as most
>do.  If I misunderstood what I saw, I'm sure a Cray person can jump in
>here.  As to ambient temp operation, yes, it was setting in the exhibit
>hall at a nice, comfortable 75+ degrees and was screaming right along.
>
  You are correct. Both machines were at SC91. I don't know if the Y-MP 2E was
a two processor machine or not (can't remember).

>Can't answer the pricing....  need a Cray salesman to jump in here....
>
  The Y-MP 2E series machines start at a little less than 2.5 million US$.
-- 
*******************************************************************************
* Dennis Ellis (dre@sequoia.cray.com) *                                       *
* Cray Research, Inc.                 *                                       *
* Eagan, MN 55121                     * All the normal stuff about opinions.. *
From: hyatt@cis.uab.edu (Robert Hyatt)
Newsgroups: comp.unix.cray
Subject: Re: How expensive is a cray?  (was: How big is a cray?)
Date: 6 Apr 92 02:38:36 GMT
Organization: University of Alabama at Birmingham

In article <267@moene.UUCP> toon@moene.uucp (Toon Moene) writes:
>In article <1992Apr3.165948.18888@nas.nasa.gov> eugene@wilbur.nas.nasa.gov  
>(Eugene N. Miya) writes:
>> Physical size: The cabinets are about 6+ feet tall for large Ys and Xs  
>and 1s.
>> Cray-2s about 4 feet would you say?  The 3 is supposed to be a bit  
>smaller?
>> They these dimensions are tiny compared to many mainframes and older
>> computers.  Through time I have collected photos of many kinds of  
>large/fast
>> computers (don't have a 3 photo yet, most recent was a VP-2400).  But,  
>personal
>> computers have changed this perspective.
>> 
>> Speed: They are kind of fast for some kinds of problems (notability  
>numeric).
>> You can also run unoptimized comparatively slow expensive programs as  
>well.
>> For flight simulation, specialized computer image generators are better
>> machines.  They cost the same as a Cray.  I am not aware of a CRI  
>machine
>> directly connected to and for a flight simulator, but I recall a  
>proposal
>> for two machines at one point at a site in Colorado.
>> 
>> If you take photos, always insist on a reference object.
>> 
>> --eugene miya, NASA Ames Research Center, eugene@orville.nas.nasa.gov
>>   Resident Cynic, Rock of Ages Home for Retired Hackers
>>   {uunet,mailrus,other gateways}!ames!eugene
>
>Yeah, that's the problem with these guys from NASA; they always want to  
>get physical ... But the real question - of course - is: what does a Cray  
>cost ? (Well I know I can just use the one at the European Centre for  
>Medium-Range Weather Forecast - but it's a bit loaded there). Soooo, two  
>questions here:
>- Does the Y-MP EL (or whatever it's acronym is) run at room temperatures
>  (say 5-30 degrees C) ?
>- What does an entry level system cost (if I have to chose between a house
>  at 150 K and a Cray, I'd choose the latter ...
>
>--

I think you (we) are talking about two different machines.  The YMP-EL is not
the same as the YMP that I saw sitting at Supercomputing '91.  They had a
"wimpel" (YMPEL) there, but it is MUCH smaller than the YMP box.  The YMP
I saw was (I believe) a 2 processor machine running at 6.0ns as most
do.  If I misunderstood what I saw, I'm sure a Cray person can jump in
here.  As to ambient temp operation, yes, it was setting in the exhibit
hall at a nice, comfortable 75+ degrees and was screaming right along.

Can't answer the pricing....  need a Cray salesman to jump in here....


-- 
!Robert Hyatt                    Computer and Information Sciences   !
!hyatt@cis.uab.edu               University of Alabama at Birmingham !
From: prine@maple.lle.rochester.edu (Ron Prine)
Newsgroups: comp.unix.cray
Subject: Re: How expensive is a cray?  (was: How big is a cray?)
Date: 8 Apr 92 22:01:45 GMT
Organization: University of Rochester, Rochester NY

In article <271@moene.UUCP> toon@moene.uucp (Toon Moene) writes:
>sysadmin'ing a Y-MP4/64 for about half a year).  The point I tried to make  
>is that you don't want a Y-MP in your study; not only because it is too  
>expensive and takes up a lot of room, but also because the necessary  
>infra-structure (cooling, electricity requirements, etc.) is quite  
>complex.  I just wondered if the YMP-EL fell more in the class of 'home  
>computers' :-) in that it is 1) air cooled, 2) powered at normal appliance  
>voltages (220 V here), 3) can operate at room temperatures, 4) doesn't  
>need a special dust free environment, and 5) is within the budget of  
>individuals.  Sure someone from CRI can fill us in on the details ...
>Toon Moene (toon@moene.uucp)

  My only complaint with the above is with numbers 1,3,and 5.  Yes the
machine is air cooled, but you have to remember that you have to keep
that room cool.  We water cool ours, but if needs be, we can switch
(literally.  One switch, 10 mins down time) over to air and still run
(even though the air conditioning and heat exchanger are equal BTU
wise).  We water cool because we have the water chillers from previous
system, it is nice to vent that heat rather than heat the room.  Now
if you happened to live where local air temp doesn't get too hot, this
system would be real nice, and if it got real cold you could heat your
building with it (use it for preburn air on furnace)


--
Ron Prine			prine@lle.rochester.edu
Newsgroups: comp.unix.cray
From: hyatt@cis.uab.edu (Robert Hyatt)
Subject: Re: bftp
Organization: University of Alabama at Birmingham
Date: Fri, 10 Apr 1992 03:13:26 GMT

In article <1992Apr9.162058.24258@chpc.utexas.edu> jbyrd@chpc.utexas.edu (Jan Byrd) writes:
>Has anyone had any experience with using bftp (Background File Transfer
>Program) to move files to a Cray in anticipation of their use in an NQS 
>job (and after, to move files FROM the Cray)?  I'm interested in knowing 
>what need bftp is serving at your site.
>
>Some of our users have been using VMS/Cray stations which are being
>removed soon, and they don't like "rcp" as the alternative to the "fetch"
>and "dispose" commands they've become so attached to because of (1) rcp 
>isn't persistent; it tries only once to copy the file before it gives up, 
>and (2) rcp requires .rhosts files on both the Cray and the remote machines,
>and they hope to avoid that.
>
>Jan

What about using UUCP?  an appropriate front-end would make it work with
fetch and dispose - type commands, and it is pretty persistent in trying
to connect to a remote site via crontab entry, and is also able to bridge
a wide type of interconnections from serial lines on up.  an idea....

Bob

-- 
!Robert Hyatt                    Computer and Information Sciences   !
!hyatt@cis.uab.edu               University of Alabama at Birmingham !
Newsgroups: comp.unix.cray
From: dre@cray.com (Dennis Ellis)
Subject: Re: How expensive is a cray?  (was: How big is a cray?)
Organization: Cray Research Inc
Date: 6 Apr 92 09:34:07 CDT

In article <267@moene.UUCP> toon@moene.uucp (Toon Moene) writes:
>- Does the Y-MP EL (or whatever it's acronym is) run at room temperatures
>  (say 5-30 degrees C) ?

  Yes.

>- What does an entry level system cost (if I have to chose between a house
>  at 150 K and a Cray, I'd choose the latter ...

  About US$ 300,000 and up (depending on configuration).

-- 
*******************************************************************************
* Dennis Ellis (dre@sequoia.cray.com) *                                       *
* Cray Research, Inc.                 *                                       *
* Eagan, MN 55121                     * All the normal stuff about opinions.. *
From: toon@moene.uucp (Toon Moene)
Newsgroups: comp.unix.cray
Subject: Re: How expensive is a cray?  (was: How big is a cray?)
Date: 7 Apr 92 21:06:26 GMT

In article <1992Apr6.023836.19469@cis.uab.edu> hyatt@cis.uab.edu (Robert  
Hyatt) writes:
> In article <267@moene.UUCP> toon@moene.uucp (Toon Moene) writes:
> >
> >Yeah, that's the problem with these guys from NASA; they always want to  
> >get physical ... But the real question - of course - is: what does a 
> >Cray cost ? (Well I know I can just use the one at the European Centre 
> >for Medium-Range Weather Forecast - but it's a bit loaded there).
> >Soooo, two questions here:
> >- Does the Y-MP EL (or whatever it's acronym is) run at room 
> >  temperatures (say 5-30 degrees C) ?
> >- What does an entry level system cost (if I have to chose between a 
> >  house at 150 K and a Cray, I'd choose the latter ...
 
> I think you (we) are talking about two different machines.  The YMP-EL 
> is not the same as the YMP that I saw sitting at Supercomputing '91.  
> They had a "wimpel" (YMPEL) there, but it is MUCH smaller than the YMP 
> box.  The YMP I saw was (I believe) a 2 processor machine running at 
> 6.0ns as most do.  If I misunderstood what I saw, I'm sure a Cray person 
> can jump in here.  As to ambient temp operation, yes, it was setting in  
> the exhibit hall at a nice, comfortable 75+ degrees and was screaming 
> right along.

> Can't answer the pricing....  need a Cray salesman to jump in here....

Hmm, clearly I wasn't clear enough :-)  I know the difference between  
Y-MP's and YMP-EL's (although I never saw the latter type - I've been  
sysadmin'ing a Y-MP4/64 for about half a year).  The point I tried to make  
is that you don't want a Y-MP in your study; not only because it is too  
expensive and takes up a lot of room, but also because the necessary  
infra-structure (cooling, electricity requirements, etc.) is quite  
complex.  I just wondered if the YMP-EL fell more in the class of 'home  
computers' :-) in that it is 1) air cooled, 2) powered at normal appliance  
voltages (220 V here), 3) can operate at room temperatures, 4) doesn't  
need a special dust free environment, and 5) is within the budget of  
individuals.  Sure someone from CRI can fill us in on the details ...

--
Toon Moene (toon@moene.uucp)
Kantershof 269, 1104 GN  Amsterdam, The Netherlands
Tel.: + 31 20 6982029; Fax: + 31 20 6003411
No Disclaimers; a NeXT at home protects against this occupational hazard.
Xref: sparky comp.unix.cray:142 comp.sys.super:641 sci.math:5683
From: bs@fatima.mitre.org (Robert D. Silverman)
Newsgroups: comp.unix.cray,comp.sys.super,sci.math
Subject: Re: Mersenne Prime Found -- How?
Date: 1 Apr 92 17:37:33 GMT
Organization: Research Computer Facility, MITRE Corporation, Bedford, MA

In article <jrussell.702142505@pequod.watson.ibm.com> jrussell@watson.ibm.com writes:
:bs@gauss.mitre.org (Robert D. Silverman) writes:
:
:>thousands of such tests. (some p's can be eliminated by finding factors).
:
:>There are about 38,000 primes between 216091 and 756,000.  One can eliminate
:>about 50% by finding factors. That still leaves 19,000 numbers to test.
:
:This sounds interesting.  What sort of tests are useable for finding such
:factors (presumably much faster than running a Lucas-Lehmer test, when they
 
Essentially just trial division. All factors of 2^p-1 must be of the form
2kp+1 and also congruent to 1 or -1 mod 8 (since 2 is a primitive root).
One simply computes 2^p-1 mod 2kp+1  for k=1,2,3........M  
up to some pre-selected bound M. One can eliminate some values of k by
constructing a wheel.

Also, if p is a prime congruent to 3 mod 4 and 2p+1 is also prime, then
one need not test anything, because 2p+1 will divide 2^p-1.

:succeed)?  Also, can you eliminate a possible (prime) exponent p by
:properties of the p itself, or do you have to do this factoring test on

Not that anyone knows.

:2^p-1? 

I'm not sure what you mean by 'this factoring test'.  
One just tries potential prime factors to see if they divide the number.
--
Bob Silverman
These are my opinions and not MITRE's.
Mitre Corporation, Bedford, MA 01730
"You can lead a horse's ass to knowledge, but you can't make him think"
Newsgroups: comp.unix.cray
From: jik@athena.mit.edu (Jonathan I. Kamens)
Subject: Re: Yesterday's date
Organization: Massachusetts Institute of Technology
Date: Thu, 9 Apr 1992 20:29:28 GMT

This article was probably generated by a buggy news reader.
From: eam@cuuxb.ATT.COM (~16DM30100~Ed Marczak~~xxx~xxxxxxx~)
Newsgroups: comp.unix.questions
Subject: Re: cu and uucp lock during login
Keywords: cu uucp
Date: 14 Apr 92 16:53:06 GMT
Reply-To: eam@cuuxb.UUCP (PUT YOUR NAME HERE)
Organization: AT&T/NCR Software Services Division

In article <1992Apr11.175940.2527@kopachuk.uucp> dcb@kopachuk.uucp (David Breneman) writes:
	In article <1992Apr9.112149.23555@urbana.mcd.mot.com> nbernste@urbana.mcd.mot.com (Norman Bernstein) writes:
	>>>eam@cuuxb.ATT.COM (~16DM30100~Ed Marczak~~xxx~xxxxxxx~) writes:
	>>>
	>>>>STUFF DELETED...
	>>>	>expect: (ogin:)
	>>>	> 2400^M^J^@^J^M^J^Jpaul losendthem (????????)
	>>>	>expect: (ogin:)
	>>>	>Call Failed: LOGIN FAILED
	>>>	>exit code 101
	>>>	>Conversation Complete: Status FAILED
	>>>	
	>>>	One place to look is the gettydefs file on your target
	>>>	system. Your host is looking for (ogin:) out of your
	>>>	Systems file. If the target system describes the incoming
	>>>	getty (tty)  differently, ie never echos "login:" string,
	>>>	your cu could hang. Or I could be completely wrong.
	>>
	>>>		Later ... ed
	>>
	>>Ed is wrong.  The System file "chat script" is used for uucico
	>>connections.  When you use the cu command, the "chat script" is not
	>>used . . . the caller gets the login prompt and must respond.  An
	>>example of use of the the chat script would be to execute:
	>>
	>>	/usr/lib/uucp/Uutry -r machine_name
	>>
	>>With this you can watch the chat script.
	
	>The examples the original poster gave were the output from Uutry.
	>"expect: (ogin:)" and "Call Failed: LOGIN FAILED" do not show up on
	>any of our systems during the use of a "cu" :-) . I emailed a response
	>similar to Ed's to the original poster, assuming his citing of the
	>"cu" command was a typo.  If this isn't the case, maybe he could
	>post a followup clarifying the situation...


	Sorry all, my "cu" was a typo. sometimes my mind does not
	communicate directly with my fingers, replace "uutry" for "cu"

		Tanks ... ed
From: michiel@ptt-iat (Michiel vd Waaij)
Newsgroups: comp.unix.questions
Subject: Re: more OSF/1 vs SVR4 (text)
Date: 12 Apr 92 19:38:43 GMT
Organization: PTT Telecom I&AT Groningen

In article <1992Apr10.200922.7144@news.larc.nasa.gov> mln@sunkj.larc.nasa.gov (Michael Nelson) writes:
>pulled some ideas from 2 articles.  comments welcome, as well as
>pointers to additional articles.  thanks.
>
>Michael Nelson
>---
>
>Compatibility:
>
STUFF DELETED
>Architectural Direction:
>
>OSF/1 is based on the MACH kernel.  This kernel boasts "integral support
>for multiprocessor hardware and an integrated threads facility."  The claim
>is that threads make it more suited for suited for multiprocessing than
>modified SVR4 for this purpose.  Clearly, OSF is anticipated the spread of
>massively parallel computing into mainstream computing.
>

I heard that lately USL has teamed up with a french company 'CHORUS'
that also has a microkernel type product. At least i happen to know
that Unisys (one of the big UI members) did team up with Chorus about three
quarters of a year ago.

By the way: OSF/1 will have the old Mach kernel. This is still largeley
monolitical. Only later versions of OSF will have a microkernel.
Insiders have repeatedly stated that the current OSF/1 product is not really
stable yet. Nice for a workstation where rebooting a couple of times a day
doesn't hurt so much. Everybody within OSF seems to work hard at this.

Best regards,

Michiel van der Waaij

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
PTT Telecom BV                        | Telephone: (+31) (050) 855243
I&AT                                  | Telefax  : (+31) (050) 855310
P.O. Box 188                          | E-mail   : michiel%ptt-iat@nluug.nl
NL-9700 AD Groningen                  |
The Netherlands                       |
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Xref: sparky comp.unix.questions:5955 comp.unix.wizards:2125 comp.sys.intel:834
From: dhesi@cirrus.com (Rahul Dhesi)
Newsgroups: comp.unix.questions,comp.unix.wizards,comp.sys.intel
Subject: Re: How to copy to another machine's /dev
Date: 7 Apr 92 18:21:23 GMT
Organization: Cirrus Logic Inc.

In <id.LSIO.AS3@ferranti.com> peter@ferranti.com (Peter da Silva) writes:

>That means any access from my account on this box to "//vmsgty" will go to the
>system vmsgty. A password is prompted for when this operation is done.

Peter, what happens if I have a Makefile like the following?

===== begin Makefile =====
# Makefile to build the "vmsgty" program.

# root of filesystem in which we are installing program
DESTROOT = /home
# Directory where all binaries related to vmsgty are kept
DESTDIR = vmsgty/bin

BINARIES = vmsgty cpio tar xyzzy this and that

install:
	for file in $(BINARIES); do \
	   mv $$file $(DESTROOT)/$(DESTDIR)/.; \
	done

# rest of makefile goes here
...
===== end Makefile =====

If DESTROOT is changed to be "/", this Makefile will access "//vmsgty",
and it's not clear that the user wants that to refer to some other system
on the network.  This is partly why UNIX treates "//" as if it were "/./"
which in turn is the same as "/" alone, and why no other system should
try to give "//" any other meaning.

Even worse, if DESTDIR is also defined to have a leading slash, the total
pathname begins with three slashes.  What does that do to your system?
-- 
Rahul Dhesi <dhesi@cirrus.COM>
UUCP:  oliveb!cirrusl!dhesi
Newsgroups: comp.unix.questions
From: wechambe@rodan.acs.syr.edu (William E Chamberlin)
Subject: Using ftp'd files?
Organization: Syracuse University, Syracuse, NY
Distribution: usa
Date: Mon, 13 Apr 92 21:23:03 EDT


	Hello. Recently I've been trying to find out how to use any files   
that are ftp'able. I have ftp'd the makefile files and the unzip files,
but still can figure it out. Each time I type the name of the file I want
to run it says 'Permission Denied'. Am I choosing the wrong files to take,
or is there soimething I'm missing (obviously)? Would someone be kind enough
to give me a piece of advise? It would be greatly appreciated. Also, if this 
isn't the proper newsgroup, could you suggest the right one? I'm not too
familiar with the discussion topics of all the groups. Thanks

Will Chamberlin
wechambe@mailbox.syr.edu
  
--
Newsgroups: comp.unix.questions