From: bhchan@soda.berkeley.edu (Billy H. Chan)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.asian.american,ucb.general
Subject: Re: Racial Harassment at Cal-Are we unclear on concept here?
Date: 22 Jan 1993 11:11:57 GMT
Organization: U.C. Berkeley, CS Undergraduate Association
Distribution: na
NNTP-Posting-Host: soda.berkeley.edu
Keywords: racism

In article <1993Jan22.054344.17224@leland.Stanford.EDU> underdog@leland.Stanford.EDU (Dwight Joe) writes:
 >In article <1jnup7$s65@agate.berkeley.edu> jctwu@soda.berkeley.edu (Jeffrey
 >Twu) writes:
 >>Umm... I think we're missing the point here.  There is one minor, but
 >>essential nuance you're missing.  When those two balcony dwellers
 >>screamed out, "Look at that Asian girl!" they most probably construed
 >>that being "Asian" is part of belong to a "race."  Although your
Dwight replies:
 >No.  I see no evidence to indicate that they thought "Asian" to be
 >a racial term.
Jeff writes:
 >>dictionary definition might be correct, many still clump all Asians
 >>together, on a _race_ basis.
Dwight Replies:
 >This of course does not indicate that those individuals thought "Asian"
 >to be a racial term.  Yes.  There are people who clump all Asians
 >         Russians, Indians, Chinese, Arabs, Turks, etc.

Nor do I see evidence indicating that they didn't think "Asian" to be
a racial term.  Your statement above does not prove nor disprove
anything because you will never know the tone, the inflections,
etc.etc.etc used by those on the balcony when that phrase "Look at
that Asian girl!"  was uttered.  Could have been followed by
catcalls, wolfwhistles, laughter, or more or none.  Perhaps they
chose "Asian" because they didn't know whether Judy is Chinese,
Korean, or Japanese (I'll give them the credit that they're smart
enough to tell that she couldn't be Arabian, Turkish, or Russian).

Judy did not have strong evidence for reporting them for Racial
Harrasment, from what I read from the original post, but they
definitely did harrass her, so I support her action of reporting
them and filing a report on them (for being stupid loudmouths if
nothing else... anyone who goes around yelling "Look at that African
girl!" towards a black female college student would most probably
get the same result (or get beaten up by her boyfriend >:)

Dwight or the devil's advocate, at this point, might ask me, "why
would saying "Look at that African girl!" spark instant hostility?"
First, that statement (though a simple statement of fact) is spoken
LOUDLY (the guys on the balcony yelled it out).  Let's analyze the
reason behind this 'need' to yell out such a statement of fact.
1) the balconeers are idiots and enjoy stating the fact in loud,
	audible yells.
2) the balconeers mean to attract the attention of said female by
	yelling a statement that will definitely get her attention
	since it is a "red flag" or loaded phrase.
3) the balconeers mean to insult/harrass/hurt said female by stating
	her area of origin (Africa), and thus neatly avoid using any
	really racist terms, yet achieving the effect of pointing out
	said female's ethnicity, race, color.
Also, as someone said..."girl" isn't PC either...sexual harrassment?
perhaps it could be taken that far. :)

If you were Japanese, and someone yelled at you (out of the blue)
"Hey, look at that Asian boy!", would you react the same way?
unless you're emaculated, I'd hazzard the guess that you'd either
1) verbally assault them back (leaving you on their level or worse)
2) report them, seeking someone with more power/authority than you for 
	help.

Dwight goes on to write:
>into a single race.  I don't do such a thing, but many people on
>this newsgroup have done so.  The worst offenders are C.-cu people.
>When it suits them they consider C.-ge to be a single race; when
>it suits them, they consider all Asians to be a single race.

Here Dwight goes again..... I'll try to be calm... in fact, I think
I won't even bother to reply to that same old Dwight-cu rhetoric.
[massive deletion]

Dwight:
>_Think_ about this.  Suppose that this country, the USA, were controlled
>by C.-cu DIKs!  Just imagine a typical day.  You, the reader, says something
>that you have carefully worded in order to avoid being thrown in prison
>by the thought police because those words might be suggestive of something
>unsavory to them.

'CUSE ME, but Chinese culture does NOT endorse Utopianism, nor does it
endorse Authoritarianism.  And I would hate to see any culture that does
endorse such things.  Governments, yes.  Culture, no.  Dwight, I think
you should pay better/closer attention to your blanket statements and your
uses of your suffixes.  Perhaps you need a Chinese-gov here.  (or do you
mean C.-cu as in Chilean-cu, Chekoslovak-cu, or any other one that could
start with a "C"?)

>I have never heard of this kind of justice in my life.  Wait!  I have.
>Not in this country, the USA.  But in countries where C.-cu DIKs predominate.
>In those countries (that exist today), you can be thrown in jail for
>no apparent reason.  In fact, Time magazine (during the second
>week of January) reports that in one such country, there is an "Internal
>Security Act" which permits the police to imprison you for what they think
>you _might_ be thinking.

Could you then say that German-cu falls into the same or even worse
category than Chinese-cu, since not only can you be thrown in jail for
no apparent reason, in Germany, they used to use you for strange 
experiments, torture/plaything?  I guess you would make such a statement,
if your vendetta was anti-Germanic.
But no... you'll just claim that my statement above is just the quote
usual quote ploy used by quote the Chinese culture to take over the 
whole world and incarcerate everyone.

>Is that the kind of world in which _we_ want to live?
>
>The important thing is to note that Mr. Twu provides insight into the
>kind of thinking that goes on in his cultural group.  We should all
>appropriately adjust our opinion of that cultural group.

Sure, one person (badly misrepresented at that) leads insight into a 
cultural group that can arguably have different distinctions,
Mainland, HK, Taiwan, and now of other nationalities like American,
Austrailian, etc.etc.etc, which have around 1.4 billion people total.

I thought you claimed to be above such frailties as to generalize on a
single case and fail to distinguish when it is the culture and when it
is the government that is causing the effect.  Or do you go by the
proverbial: "Do as I say, not as I do...esp if you're Chinese like me."?

>Jinsei no imi wa nan desu ka.                Sister, can you      |   \|  |`
>Shitte itara oshiete kuremasen ka.           spare a coin?        |    | -+-
  ^^ or would you rather be Japanese?

-- 
---------------------------------------------------------------------
Billy H. Chan <bhchan@soda.berkeley.edu> <bhchan@uclink.berkeley.edu>
~{3B:FH;~}    <bhchan@ocf.berkeley.edu>  <c60b-3me@web.berkeley.edu>
"Reality isn't always what you see but what you perceive." ~{?42;<{~}
Newsgroups: soc.culture.asian.american