HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: john@physiol.su.OZ.AU (John Mackin)
Subject: Re: Vegetarian Ethics?????????????????
Organization: Chickenhawk Software
Distribution: aus
Date: Sun, 10 Jan 1993 05:14:03 GMT

In article <9300812.4252@mulga.cs.mu.OZ.AU>,
	gifford@krang.vis.citri.edu.au (Jonathan Gifford) writes:

> ianst@qdpii.comp.qdpi.oz.au (Ian Staples) writes:
>>As far as I'm concerned, people are free to eat whatever they damned
>>well like, as long as they don't become cannibals.
>
> I'm particularly interested in *exactly* why you don't like
> cannibalism. Is it an ethical reason?

I don't have any idea why Ian doesn't like cannibalism.  But as is
sometimes my wont, I thought I should inject the odd fact into
this discussion (without, of course, in any way wanting to
discourage the rabid flamers :).

All else aside, there are excellent _practical_ reasons not to
be a cannibal.  The thing is, all animals harbour all sorts of
infectious organisms all the time, and we humans are no exception.
At any given time, each of us is carrying many kinds of bacteria
and viruses that, given the chance, would happily make us quite
ill.  But we're not ill because they don't get the chance; our
immune system keeps them under control, so there aren't too many
of each kind.

Now, this is not normally too much of a problem.  But if you start
eating other people, or maybe drinking their blood, it is more of
one, since the set of organisms _they_ are carrying might well not
be quite the same as the set _you_ are carrying, and some of the
ones that they have that you don't are only too likely to get out
of hand.  Cannibalism is really quite dangerous in this way; see
any basic anthropology text.

And then of course there are parasites to consider.  A parasite
that likes one human will almost certainly like another just as
well.

So, should you intend to take up cannibalism, do remember these
hints for Safe Chomping:

-- Don't eat brain, other nervous tissue, or liver (yes, I know
   the symbolism is tremendous...).

-- Try to avoid other organ meats generally; stick to muscle.

-- Make certain the meat is cooked thoroughly.

And I think it would be appropriate to give the last word on
this to the immortal Spike Milligan:

	You must never bathe in an Irish Stew
	It's a most unnatural thing to do
	But should you persist against my reasoning
	Don't fail to add the appropriate seasoning.

-- 
John Mackin <john@civil.su.oz.au>
Knox's box is a 286.                 Fox in Socks does hacks and tricks
Knox's box is hard to fix.           To fix poor Knox's box for kicks.
Newsgroups: aus.followup
From: summer@mullian.ee.mu.OZ.AU (Mark Summerfield)
Subject: Appendix A: Vegetarianism vs. Evolution
Organization: Computer Science, University of Melbourne, Australia
Distribution: aus
Date: Thu, 7 Jan 1993 05:31:56 GMT

There is something about the evolutionary arguments for vegetarianism and
frugivorism (?) that is bothering me: there seems to be an implicit
assumption on the part of those in favour that the fact that meat eating is
a "relatively recent" evolutionary change necessarily implies that
eliminating meat from modern diets must logically be harmless.

Consider the humble appendix.  This organ once enabled mankind's ancestors
to digest some forms of vegetation (e.g. grass) which are now of virtually
no nutritional value.  Today it is useless for this task, and its presence
is only felt when acute inflammation leads to death or necessitates an
operation!

NOW, don't get me wrong!!  I realise that this does NOT imply that it is
impossible to obtain a balanced diet from fruit and/or vegetables (in fact
I know that it is, particularly in the modern world when all the necessary
vegetation can be obtained all year round, wherever you happen to live).
However it does serve to demonstrate that there is more to this evolution
thing than mere social change.  To me it is FAR from obvious that it is OK
to revert to fruit-eating because that is what our ancestors did, and they
survived, because man has evolved PHYSICALLY since then.  If there is
medical and nutritional evidence (which there certainly is for
vegetarianism, although I remain unconvinced by frugivorism I'm afraid)
then that's great, but the evolution argument is essentially irrelevant.
Telling people to "just eat fruit and don't worry about it -- your
ancestors were fine!" and listing anthropological and archaeological
evidence strikes me as downright irresponsible.  Either way, I think you're
making things much more difficult for yourself if you exclude eggs and
dairy products as well as meat.

Somewhere way back my ancestors were fish.  Does this mean I can survive
on algae?

Mark.
          --------------------------------------------------------
              Mark Summerfield,  Photonics Research Laboratory
Department of Electrical and Electronic Engineering, University of Melbourne  
                ACSnet[AARN/Internet]: summer@ee.mu.oz[.au] 
          --------------------------------------------------------
   "This terminal is no more. It has ceased to be. It's expired and gone
    to meet its maker. This is a late terminal. It's a stiff. Bereft of
     life, it rests in peace. If you hadn't nailed it to the bench, it
      would be pushing up the daisies. It's run down the curtain and
            joined the choir invisible. This is an X-Terminal!"
From: Christopher.Vance@adfa.oz.au (Christopher JS Vance)
Newsgroups: aus.followup
Subject: Re: Vegetarian Ethics?????????????????
Date: 6 Jan 93 22:48:39 GMT
Distribution: aus
Organization: Computer Science, University College, UNSW/ADFA, Canberra, Australia
Originator: cjsv@ccadfa.cc.adfa.oz.au

In article <1993Jan6.183516.3701@csdvax.csd.unsw.edu.au> s9000289@csdvax.csd.unsw.edu.au (Cameron Hooper) writes:
| 
| I had a friend who told me of an ethical dilemma he faced while picking
| potatoes.  Was it permissible to apologize to the whole field or did
| he have to apologize personally to each potato?  
| 
| I still stay awake nights.

If he's convinced that the potato is aware, maybe he should be eating rocks.
Sounds like that's what he's got in his head.

-- Christopher
Newsgroups: aus.followup
From: summer@mullian.ee.mu.OZ.AU (Mark Summerfield)
Subject: Re: Vegetarian Ethics?????????????????
Organization: Computer Science, University of Melbourne, Australia
Distribution: aus
Date: Sun, 10 Jan 1993 23:13:14 GMT

john@physiol.su.OZ.AU (John Mackin) writes:

>-- Don't eat brain, other nervous tissue, or liver (yes, I know
>   the symbolism is tremendous...).

Eating the liver didn't seem to have done Hannibal Lector any harm...
although I have no doubt that the vegetarians would argue that the
fava beans (not to mention the chiante) offered some form of protection!!

:-)

Mark.
          --------------------------------------------------------
              Mark Summerfield,  Photonics Research Laboratory
Department of Electrical and Electronic Engineering, University of Melbourne  
                ACSnet[AARN/Internet]: summer@ee.mu.oz[.au] 
          --------------------------------------------------------
   "This terminal is no more. It has ceased to be. It's expired and gone
    to meet its maker. This is a late terminal. It's a stiff. Bereft of
     life, it rests in peace. If you hadn't nailed it to the bench, it
      would be pushing up the daisies. It's run down the curtain and
            joined the choir invisible. This is an X-Terminal!"
Newsgroups: aus.aarnet
From: ibacon@uniwa.uwa.edu.au (Ian Bacon)
Newsgroups: aus.aarnet
Subject: Whole Internet Guide ?
Date: 5 Jan 1993 10:37:11 +0800
Organization: The University of Western Australia
NNTP-Posting-Host: uniwa.uwa.edu.au
X-Newsreader: Tin 1.1 PL5

I have heard of book entitled "The Whole Internet Guide". Does anyone
know anything about it? Is it any good? Would like to know the author,
publisher etc.

Thanks.
From: dclunie@pax.tpa.com.au (David Clunie)
Newsgroups: aus.aarnet
Subject: CFD: newgroup "aus.censorship", was Re: Aarnet should not be pornographic!
Date: 6 Jan 1993 21:47:10 GMT
Organization: Her Master's Voice
Distribution: world
Reply-To: dclunie@pax.tpa.com.au
NNTP-Posting-Host: britt.pax.tpa.com.au

The thread about "Aarnet should not be pornographic!" seems to be getting a
bit out of hand, both in this newsgroup and by email, so I propose that a
newgroup be created where the issues of censorship both on AARNet, and elsewhere
in the media in this country, be discussed without fear of irriting those who
feel aus.aarnet should be a more "technically" oriented group. And it is much
more fun discussing this stuff out in the open rather than by email, where all
that literary genius gets wasted on just one recipient.

If there is no objection I will newgroup the group in a couple of days before
the ire of the various contributors dies off :)

I am still considering my response to Philip's last email in which my views
were said to be "even more repressive than those expressed in my original
post". And I thought I was on the side of the liberals !

david
From: pwilson@peg.pegasus.oz.au
Newsgroups: aus.aarnet
Date: 13 Jan 93 11:08 EST
Subject: Re: FAQ: Australian public access Inter
Nf-ID: #R:1hsar7INN7mt@zikzak.apana.org.au:640045971:peg:246600059:000:617
Nf-From: peg.UUCP!pwilson    Jan 13 11:08:00 1993


Name:           Pegasus Networks Pty Ltd
Domain:		peg.pegasus.oz.au

Location:       Brisbane
Address:	PO Box 284
		Broadway Q 4006
Phone:		07 257 1111 or 008 812 812		
E-mail:		support@peg.pegasus.oz.au

Dialins:        V22bis/V32bis/V42bis lines in Brisbane
		National access via AUSTPAC or AARNet

Charges:        On application

Other services: E-mail and conferencing, gateways to
			Association for Progressive Communications (APC)
			AARNet/Internet/USENET
			PACTOK (Asia-Pacific)
			DASNET, Dialcom, and many others.
		Telnet access to AARNet and the Internet.
		"Messenger" offline reader (point) software.
From: hugh@rschp1.anu.edu.au (Hugh Fisher)
Newsgroups: aus.aarnet
Subject: Pornography - who enforces ban?
Date: 10 Jan 1993 23:13:02 GMT
Organization: Research School of Chemistry, ANU
Distribution: aus
Reply-To: Hugh.Fisher@anu.edu.au
NNTP-Posting-Host: 150.203.35.20


  Just who would be responsible for keeping pornography
  off AARNET anyway? You can't (as far as I know) sue
  Australia Post for shipping X rated magazines around,
  nor Telecom for those R rated 0055 phone lines. Are
  Geoff & Peter supposed to monitor the contents of
  every packet for conformance to AARNET 'acceptable use'?


	Hugh Fisher
Newsgroups: aus.aarnet,alt.comp.acad-freedom.talk
From: bambi@bu.oz.au (David J. Hughes)
Subject: Re: AARNet fax gateway
Organization: ITS, Bond University
Date: Tue, 12 Jan 1993 23:06:29 GMT

bambi@bu.oz.au (David J. Hughes) writes:

>		netfax-requests@kirk.bu.oz.au  

As you'd assume, that should read the singular rather than the plural :-

		netfax-request@kirk.bu.oz.au


Sorry one and all.  (Thanks ggm for the subtle pointer..:-)


bambi
   ___                                 David J. Hughes     bambi@bu.oz.au
  /   \                /  /    /        
 /  __/ __   __   ____/  /    / __          Senior Network Programmer
/    \ /  \ /  \ /   /  /    / /  \  /    Comms Development & Operation
\____/ \__//   / \__/   \___/ /   / /       AUSTRALIA  (+61 75 951450)
Newsgroups: aus.aarnet
From: ray@exicom.OZ.AU (Ray Soo)
Subject: questions about AARNet's international link
Summary: various assorted questions
Originator: news@xig
Organization: Exicom Australia Pty Ltd
Date: Tue, 12 Jan 1993 08:35:43 GMT

What sort of box sits at the other end of AARNet's international link
(and where is is located)?

Who do AARNet pay to connect to the US end an how much would this be?

I've heard of PACCOMM - how are they involved (if at all)?

Also, how are the University of Hawaii involved (if at all)?

Can i read about any of this stuff on AARNet somewhere (e.g. aarnet.edu.au)?


 -- ray
From: summer@mullian.ee.mu.OZ.AU (Mark Summerfield)
Newsgroups: aus.aarnet
Subject: Re: CFD: newgroup "aus.censorship", was Re: Aarnet should not be pornographic!
Date: 6 Jan 93 23:19:10 GMT
Distribution: aus
Organization: Computer Science, University of Melbourne, Australia

dclunie@pax.tpa.com.au (David Clunie) writes:

>The thread about "Aarnet should not be pornographic!" seems to be getting a
>bit out of hand, both in this newsgroup and by email, so I propose that a
>newgroup be created where the issues of censorship both on AARNet, and elsewhere
>in the media in this country, be discussed without fear of irriting those who
>feel aus.aarnet should be a more "technically" oriented group. And it is much
>more fun discussing this stuff out in the open rather than by email, where all
>that literary genius gets wasted on just one recipient.

>If there is no objection I will newgroup the group in a couple of days before
>the ire of the various contributors dies off :)

I have no objection -- of course, if I suggested you shouldn't do it I might
be accused of attempting to censor you :-)  Creating a new group is one
method which is sure to grab the attention of people not involved in the
discussion!!  Perhaps if you do it, a recap of the discussion so far
would be in order (some form of repost of the aus.aarnet articles?)

One other thing: if this discussion dies down, and there seems to be no
further interest in the subject of censorship in general (i.e. the group
ends up idle), will you also take responsibility for rmgrouping it?  I reckon
it's worth seeing how it goes, but it would be a shame if we ended up with
an unwanted group lying around the (quite reasonably sized) aus hierarchy.

Mark.
          --------------------------------------------------------
              Mark Summerfield,  Photonics Research Laboratory
Department of Electrical and Electronic Engineering, University of Melbourne  
                ACSnet[AARN/Internet]: summer@ee.mu.oz[.au] 
          --------------------------------------------------------
   "This terminal is no more. It has ceased to be. It's expired and gone
    to meet its maker. This is a late terminal. It's a stiff. Bereft of
     life, it rests in peace. If you hadn't nailed it to the bench, it
      would be pushing up the daisies. It's run down the curtain and
            joined the choir invisible. This is an X-Terminal!"
From: ianh@morgana.resmel.bhp.com.au (Ian Hoyle)
Newsgroups: aus.aarnet
Subject: Re: Whole Internet Guide ?
Date: 5 Jan 93 05:43:28 GMT
Organization: BHP Research - Melbourne Laboratories
NNTP-Posting-Host: morgana.resmel.bhp.com.au

ibacon@uniwa.uwa.edu.au (Ian Bacon) writes:

>I have heard of book entitled "The Whole Internet Guide". Does anyone
>know anything about it? Is it any good? Would like to know the author,
>publisher etc.

Hi, I did this 'mini review' some time back:

It is:

- big! This sucker comes in at over 300 A4 size pages of
  close typed material.

- written in a conversational, non-frightening manner, ideal for
  non-computer literate people who may be wary of the technology
  but who can _really_ utilize what it might provide for them

- up to date. Apart from the usual stuff like email, news, ftp etc
  (also very well covered in our own AARNet resources guide(s)), there
  are chapters on 

     finding software
     finding someone
     finding anything
     archie
     WAIS
     gopher
     WWW

- a *huge* resources section dealing with servers for info on material
  as diverse as agriculture, environment, libraries, literature etc etc


"The Whole Internet User's Guide and Catalog" 
by Ed Krol
O'Reilly and Associates
Sebastopol, CA 
ISBN 1-56592-025-2

Available from Addison Wesley here in Oz.

I'd very much recommend it :-)

BTW just drop me a line if you want any info. Oh yes, of course I
have _NO_ affiliation with O'Reilly ;-) ..... just a happy customer

        ian
-- 
   /\/\     :  Ian Hoyle,  Senior Research Scientist
  / / /\    :  Image Analysis Group
 / / /  \   :  BHP Research - Melbourne Laboratories
/ / / /\ \  :  245 Wellington Rd, Mulgrave, 3170, AUSTRALIA
\ \/ / / /  :  Phone    +61-3-560-7066
 \  / / /   :  E-mail   ianh@resmel.bhp.com.au
  \/\/\/    :
            : "Ooooo I hate that wascaly wabbit"
            :               -- Elmer Fudd
From: mark@alsvid.une.edu.au (Mark Garrett Internet: mark@arvak.une.edu.au Phone: +61 66 20 3859)
Newsgroups: aus.aarnet
Subject: Re: Aarnet should not be pornographic!
Date: 5 Jan 93 12:23:36 GMT
Organization: University of New England - Northern Rivers (Lismore)

From article <1992Dec22.085300.1@mrluv2.dsto.oz.au>, by ryanph@mrluv2.dsto.oz.au:
> 
> nb: I am _not_ talking from a moral 'high ground'. I am _not_ a card-carrying
> member of the Moral Majority. However, pornography generally is demeaning to
> women, and I believe that it is particularly poor in the present context.

	It's difficult to see if your for real or not?  Anyway pictures of
women may be demeaning to woman, but that's only if they have to look at them.
Since these pictures are not on display then I cannot see how they are
demeaning to anyone expect those that have gone to the extended effort of 
having to down load , uudecode etc etc before being able to display them...

	Also I'm sure you will find that there is male porn there as
well going by the group names, what about being demeaning to them... or
are you one of these sexis types that has women on the brain  :) :)


	Mark :)

-- 
Mark Garrett	Internet:  mark@arvak.une.edu.au	Phone: 	+61 66 20 3859
   University of New England, Northern Rivers, Lismore NSW Australia.
From: daemon@jatz.aarnet.edu.au ()
Newsgroups: aus.aarnet
Subject: downtime form - TRL
Date: 13 Jan 1993 03:56:07 GMT
Organization: Australian Academic and Research Network (AARNet)
Reply-To: Gregory Matthew Chenhall <gmc@ariel.ucs.unimelb.EDU.AU>
NNTP-Posting-Host: 139.130.204.4


            Australian Academic and Research Network - Downtime Report
            ----------------------------------------------------------
            
Site:		The University of Melbourne
Contact:	Greg Chenhall
Phone:		(03) 344 788
E-Mail:		G.Chenhall@its.unimelb.EDU.AU

FAULT HISTORY

13/01/92 22:35

Link from Parkville (vic gateway) to Telecom Research Labs:

ISDN lines down until 13 Jan 1993 11:38, fix unknown.

DOWNTIME SUMMARY

Network link to: Telecom Research Labs
Was: DOWN 
For:  13hours 3minutes


         DO NOT PRINT THIS FORM - IT SHOULD BE COMPLETED BY A TEXT EDITOR
              AND RETURNED TO aarnet@aarnet.edu.au BY ELECTRONIC MAIL

Newsgroups: aus.aarnet
From: jamesp@cs.uwa.oz.au (James Pinakis)
Subject: Re: Aarnet should not be pornographic!
Organization: Dept. Computer Science, University of Western Australia.
Date: Fri, 8 Jan 1993 01:37:06 GMT

In <1igqfaINNi90@flash.pax.tpa.com.au> dclunie@pax.tpa.com.au (David Clunie) writes:

>Now, to help to bring you back to reality: why don't you ask some women 
>that you know - of any socio-economic class - if, for the same money, they 
>would rather be topless barmaids or porn stars, than what they do now.

Why don't you ask them if they would rather collect radioactive isotopes from
the bottom of a mine shaft filled with natural gas and be paid the same money?
Perhaps it's something they just don't want to do.  I mean, if you wanted to do
something, and you knew that you would get paid more to do it than what you're
currently being paid, then that's what you'd be doing.  (Unless your morality
forbids it and/or you're hung up about what society, family or friends would
think, in which case you'd answer "no" anyway).  Why don't you instead ask some
topless barmaids or prostitutes whether they'd rather be doing something else
_that_they're_qualified_for_ for the same pay.  Why don't you ask some factory
workers or shop assistants whether they'd rather be doing something else
_that_they're_qualified_for_ for the same pay.  My bet is that some would
say yes, some would say no, and some would say "I don't have any choice in
the matter, I can't find another job".  And it is that last simple economic
reality which forces women to become topless-barmaids or prostitutes, not
sexual exploitation.

james
From: pte900@jatz.aarnet.edu.au (Peter Elford)
Newsgroups: aus.aarnet
Subject: Re: AARNet fax gateway
Date: 12 Jan 1993 00:11:56 GMT
Organization: Australian Academic and Research Network
Distribution: world
Reply-To: P.Elford@AARNet.EDU.AU
NNTP-Posting-Host: 139.130.204.4
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1 PL8]

Roger Atkinson (atkinson@csuvax1.murdoch.edu.au) wrote:

: Would the project which Peter mentions be feasible if limited to a smaller
: task, such as a fax gateway for internal (free) calls only, for Unix only?

Limiting the size of the project would certainly help, but what is
required is the will and committment to make it happen.

: Just a national solution with certain standardisations, which individual
: institutions could implement off the shelf if they wanted to, not a
: national facility?

In this case you will require input from all interested parties, and
suddenly the project is somewhat less constrained.

I suspect a good start would be for someone to establish a mailing list
for all interested people to discuss the issues of functionality,
address formats, billing, authentication, etc. I already run quite
a few lists, and although it's something a central group should be
doing, I have trouble keeping up with the maintenance of such things.

So would someone like to operate a network-FAX discussion list ?

--
Peter Elford, Network Co-ordinator, Australian Academic and Research Network
Tel: +61 6 249 3542    Fax: +61 6 249 1369    Pager: +61 6 245 3035
Post: GPO Box 1142, Canberra ACT 2601, Australia
Office: Computer Services Centre, Australian National University, Canberra
Newsgroups: aus.aarnet
From: ibacon@uniwa.uwa.edu.au (Ian Bacon)
Newsgroups: aus.aarnet
Subject: Dialog ?
Date: 7 Jan 1993 06:57:11 +0800
Organization: The University of Western Australia
NNTP-Posting-Host: uniwa.uwa.edu.au
X-Newsreader: Tin 1.1 PL5

I have been told of an online database system called Dialog. Has anyone
heard anything about this database? Is it worth using as a source of
information?

thanks for any info.
Newsgroups: aus.aarnet
Subject: Re: Aarnet & pornography
From: ryanph@mrluv2.dsto.oz.au
Date: 8 Jan 93 10:07:31 +1100
Organization: Defence Science and Technology Organisation

Apologies to those who thought that I was speaking on behalf of the DSTO or the
Materials Research Laboratory. I forgot to put the standard disclaimers in.

I hope that some of you reading these postings - for and against my suggestion
that Aarnet should not be carrying pornography - widen your reading lists a bit
to include at least _some_ academic discussions of pornography, and don't just
assume that the use of womens' bodies is as nothing compared to other crimes
and vices.

Phil Ryan
******************* These are my own opions entirely. *************************
Newsgroups: aus.aarnet