HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: pjs@euclid.JPL.NASA.GOV (Peter J. Scott)
Subject: Re: Hiking fees for L.A. County trails?
Reply-To: pjs@euclid.jpl.nasa.gov
Organization: Jet Propulsion Laboratory, NASA/Caltech
Distribution: la
Date: Wed, 6 Jan 1993 16:54:26 GMT

In article <1993Jan6.033513.28849@elroy.jpl.nasa.gov>, fod@elroy.jpl.nasa.gov (Frank O'Donnell) writes:
> A friend tells me that, as of the first of the year,
> L.A. County is charging a $23 annual fee per person
> for a permit to hike on county trails.  Supposedly there
> is a fine in the $40-$50 range if one is caught on trails
> without a permit.

Man, this is ridiculous.  Not only the notion, but the fact that 
I have heard nothing about this on the radio or TV news.  What
areas does this affect?  I usually go in the Santa Monica mountains:
now, Pt. Mugu park contains a juxtaposition of state park and national
park land; I'm not aware of the county property.  I can see people
getting 10 miles down a trail in state park land and coming to a sign
that says that they're entering county land, better have your permits
ready - what permits?

Jeez, I'm even a Sierra Club member and I don't remember reading anything
about this in their newspaper.

-- 
This is news.  This is your       |    Peter Scott, NASA/JPL/Caltech
brain on news.  Any questions?    |    (pjs@euclid.jpl.nasa.gov)
Xref: sparky la.general:1121 ba.transportation:3028
From: ed@wente.llnl.gov (Ed Suranyi)
Newsgroups: la.general,ba.transportation
Subject: Re: I hate "Rapid" Transit District (RTD)
Keywords: rapid RTD transport
Date: 6 Jan 93 01:44:13 GMT
Followup-To: la.general
Distribution: ca
Organization: UC Davis Dept of Applied Science at LLNL

In article <RZDXwB1w165w@surfcty.com> rlm@surfcty.com (Robert McMillin) writes:
>the LACTC had planned to put in a major east-west light rail line on
>Wilshire.  This would have made sense if the goal is to get middle- and
>upper-income people on the system, for L.A.'s heavy banking and
>commercial district is Wilshire, practically; that street is a zip code
>unto itself!  However, it was not the LACTC's intention to attract more
>well-to-do riders; rather, they chose to continue seeing their mission
>as providing last-ditch transportation for the ultra-poor.  In so doing,
>they moved the route several blocks south to Pico Blvd., passing through
>poor neighborhoods -- and practically guaranteeing that nobody working
>in the financial towers dotting Wilshire will ever use this line.

Boy, have you ever got your facts mixed up here!  First of all, the line
down Wilshire Blvd. is planned to be heavy rail, not light rail.  It will
be an extension of the Red Line.  Second, the reason the line was shifted
from Wilshire to Pico for part (not all) of its route is completely
different than the one you gave.  Rather, it's a matter of safety.  Below
Wilshire Blvd. in that area there are many pockets of oil and natural
gas; construction safety could not be guaranteed.  Recently, there have
been advances which may make it possible to tunnel below Wilshire Blvd.
after all; it this turns out to be correct I can practically assure you
that the routing will revert to Wilshire.  Everybody knows that Wilshire
would be better from a purely transportation viewpoint.

>Something I've said for years.  Here's a first: somebody suggesting that
>adding whites to ANYTHING would help ethnic diversity.  Your experiences
>on the RTD buses should give you plenty of reasons why everyone in LA
>tries to drive if they can.

Not everyone.  As I've just posted, my father, an upper middle class
white, takes the bus to work every day.  It's convenient.  I took the 
bus to high school every day.

>LACTC deserves a thumb in the eye for its lousy choice of the Green Line
>route.  This light rail line goes from Norwalk to Manhattan Beach -- not
>LAX as you would reasonably expect.  To go from the MB terminus to LAX,
>one has to get on one of those derelict buses everyone here loves so
>much.  Talk about brainless maneuvers!

The line goes to El Segundo, not Manhattan Beach.  A southern extension
will go down to Manhattan Beach.  A northern extension will serve the 
airport transit center, which will be the meeting place for all transit
lines serving the airport.  A people mover system will connect the transit
center with the various terminals.  LAX is far too large to be served
by a single transit station, so this quasi-central transit center
approach, such as was envisioned a while back for JFK, seems the best
solution.

Ed
ed@wente.llnl.gov
Newsgroups: la.general
From: leem@jpl-devvax.jpl.nasa.gov (Lee Mellinger)
Subject: Re: Hiking fees for L.A. County trails?
Organization: Jet Propulsion Laboratory (NASA)
Date: Wed, 6 Jan 1993 17:32:20 GMT

In article <1993Jan6.070216.11451@xyzoom.info.com> rob@xyzoom.info.com (Rob Lingelbach) writes:
:In article <1993Jan6.033513.28849@elroy.jpl.nasa.gov> fod@elroy.jpl.nasa.gov (Frank O'Donnell) writes:
:>A friend tells me that, as of the first of the year,
:>L.A. County is charging a $23 annual fee per person
:>for a permit to hike on county trails.  Supposedly there
:>is a fine in the $40-$50 range if one is caught on trails
:>without a permit.
:>
:
:Oh my god.  I am going to go to bed now and sleep on this, but my
:first reaction is, how utterly preposterous.  If the money is used to
:maintain the trails, then maybe, if it were enforceable--and it is
:not--it would be worthwhile.  Who will enforce it?  Just what is a
:"county trail"?  And how does LA County propose to inform hikers that
:this fee is demanded--erect large signs at every trailhead (which
:would cost more than the program brings in)?
:

The the money is to be used to maintain the county trail system.  As
to enforcement, the county may or may not have any rangers, but I do
know that they have the Safety Police (used to be called Park Police)
who would if assigned do the enforcing.

:
:I run in Griffith Park every morning.  I thought it was a city park?
:

Giriffith Park is an LA City Park.

:
:Are there other jurisdictions in the US that charge fees for day
:hiking on publicly-owned land?  Overnight permits, yes, and the odd
:parking fee (rte 39 above Azusa)...

State Parks and the hiking trails have charged for day use for several
years.

:-- 
:Rob Lingelbach KB6CUN | 2660 Hollyridge Dr LA CA 90068 213 464 6266 (voice) 


Lee

"Mit Pulver und Blei, die Gedanken sind frei."

|Lee F. Mellinger                 Caltech/Jet Propulsion Laboratory - NASA
|4800 Oak Grove Drive, Pasadena, CA 91109 818/354-1163  FTS 792-1163     
|leem@jpl-devvax.JPL.NASA.GOV
Newsgroups: la.general,sci.geo.geology
From: ed@Tekelec.Com (Ed Campbell)
Subject: Re: where to get rock hammer?
Organization: Tekelec Inc
Distribution: na
Date: Mon, 04 Jan 1993 21:28:58 GMT

In article <1992Dec30.013955.1030@xyzoom.info.com> rob@xyzoom.info.com (Rob Lingelbach) writes:
>I'd like to purchase a rock hammer, but don't have the slightest idea
>where one can find one; I live in the Los Angeles area.  
>
>Thanks 
>--Rob
>
>
>-- 
>Rob Lingelbach KB6CUN | 2660 Hollyridge Dr LA CA 90068 213 464 6266 (voice) 
>rob@xyzoom.info.com   | "I care not much for a man's religion whose dog or 
>robl@netcom.com       |  cat are not the better for it."  --Abraham Lincoln

   Try the Sports Challet. There are several locations around.

  Ed Campbell
From: kmeyer@aero.org (Kraig R. Meyer)
Newsgroups: la.general
Subject: Re: I hate "Rapid" Transit District (RTD)
Followup-To: la.general
Date: 6 Jan 93 13:30:11
Organization: The Aerospace Corporation, El Segundo, CA
Distribution: ca
	<145158@lll-winken.LLNL.GOV>
NNTP-Posting-Host: solarium.aero.org
In-reply-to: ed@wente.llnl.gov's message of 6 Jan 93 01:44:13 GMT


rlm@surfcty.com (Robert McMillin) asserted that LACTC moved the red
line from Wilshire down to Pico because they wanted to serve the ultra-poor.

In reality, the LACTC has made it a major priority to make the rail
systems appeal to the middle class.  That's why they spend so much
money on security on the blue line and so little on the RTD busses.
There are a lot of businessmen and women who ride the blue line.

Regarding the moving of the Red Line, ed@wente.llnl.gov (Ed Suranyi)
pointed out that this was due to pockets of natural gas under Wilshire.
As soon as the construction safety issues have been resolved, he said
"I can practically assure you that the routing will revert to Wilshire
...since Wilshire would be better from a purely transportation viewpoint."

Unfortunately, this may not be the case.  According to articles last
fall in the L.A. Times, the "gas pockets" excuse was merely used by a
certain influential congressperson to get the line moved down into
his/her congressional district by Pico Blvd.  Followup studies found
the exact same gas pockets exist under the Pico route for the Red Line.
Unfortunately, the Pico route was written into the federal proposal
that provides construction funding for the red line and now the route
cannot be moved back to Wilshire without an act of Congress (literally).

The Green Line that is currently being built *DOES* end in Manhattan
Beach after passing through El Segundo.  The second leg of the green
line will probably go by the LAX transit center and on to Marina Del
Rey.  Last I heard, the details of the LAX extension had not been
settled, nor had the study been completed as to whether a people mover
system would be cost effective for LAX.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------
| The opinions expressed above are my own and do not necessarily          |
| represent those of The Aerospace Corporation, El Segundo, CA.           |
|									  |
| Kraig R. Meyer		   	                 kmeyer@aero.org  |
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Newsgroups: la.general
From: fod@elroy.jpl.nasa.gov (Frank O'Donnell)
Subject: Hiking fees for L.A. County trails?
Organization: Jet Propulsion Laboratory
Date: Wed, 6 Jan 1993 03:35:13 GMT

A friend tells me that, as of the first of the year,
L.A. County is charging a $23 annual fee per person
for a permit to hike on county trails.  Supposedly there
is a fine in the $40-$50 range if one is caught on trails
without a permit.

Does anyone know anything about this?  I'm trying to 
figure out if anywhere we usually hike is covered --
usually we're in Angeles National Forest, though
occasionally get over to Griffith Park.

Frank
frank@jplpost.jpl.nasa.gov
Newsgroups: la.general
From: strnlght@netcom.com (David Sternlight)
Subject: Re: vet recommendation needed in Pasadena/Duarte area
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services (408 241-9760 guest)
Date: Fri, 8 Jan 1993 19:41:52 GMT

In article <1icqunINNmn3@usenet.pa.dec.com> tsoi@lint.tus.dec.com (Stella M. Tsoi) writes:

>Can anyone recommend a caring, responsible vet in the Pasadena/Arcadia/Monrovia/Duarte area?  Preferably one that specializes or cares
>for cats a great deal.  I've tried vets from 2 animal hospitals so far, and
>found them lacking.

I give Dr. Diegnan at the Cat Clinic in Pasadena my strongest
recommendation. I've used him for many years for several cats, and his
expertise and caring are unparalleled.

Tell him I sent you.

David
-- 
David Sternlight
RIPEM Public Key on server  --  Consider it an envelope for your e-mail

Newsgroups: la.general,oc.general,ba.transportation
From: dhosek@hmcvax.claremont.edu
Subject: What to do with a big pile o' magazines?
Organization: Quixote Digital Typography
Date: 4 Jan 93 21:36:19 PST

I've got a little under 3 years worth of New Yorkers and a year's
Atlantic gathering dust on a closet shelf. I'm moving into a
house soon and would like to dispose of these in the best
possible way. Any suggestions? e.g., Libraries looking for back
issue donations, literacy programs,  paper recycling, used
magazine stores, etc.? 

-dh
Newsgroups: la.general,oc.general
From: johnwu@netcom.com (John M. Wu)
Subject: Re: I hate "Rapid" Transit District (RTD)
Organization: Netcom Online Communications Services (408-241-9760 login: guest)
Distribution: ca
Date: Thu, 7 Jan 1993 08:37:10 GMT

In article <FAIGIN.93Jan6072559@soldan.aero.org> faigin@aero.org (Daniel P. Faigin) writes:
>On Wed, 6 Jan 1993 07:23:37 GMT, johnwu@netcom.com (John M. Wu) said:
>> Instead of stretching freeways, let's remove most of the gap between the
>> first lane and the center divider.  Japanese freeways don't even have
>> shoulder lanes but have gaps every 1/4 km for broken down vehicles.
>> Boom!  Instant carpool(bus) lane.
>
>In most freeways, the gap has already been removed, and the lanes reduced the
>minimum width. Extra lanes are *still* needed. Also, experience has shown

If it's feasible to widen freeways from four to six or eight lanes, then
fine.  But there is only a small amount of space between the #4 lane and
the wall in many parts of LA freeways.  Widening freeways is not a solution
to our problems. 

With Metrolink, removing existing lanes may not be necessary.  But I believe
15 years ago when there was no rail, stealing existing lanes would be
a small step in making buses accepted.  
 
>(consider the first diamond lane on the I-10, for those that remember it) that
>diamond lanes are not successful when you obtain them by removing existing
>lanes and not separating them suitably from the normal traffic lanes (that is,
>something wider than a single line of paint -- at least a foot of space
>between double yellow lines is more effective).
>
I was assuming that the creation of these lanes from the existing pavement
would include gaps between diamond lane and the regular lane #1.
Stealing space from the asphalt part of the shoulder is required.

-- 
John M. Wu                "And if a double decker bus, crashes into us
johnwu@netcom.com          to die by your side, is such a heavenly way to die"
jmw@ocf.berkeley.edu         - There Is A Light That Never Goes Out
#include <flameprotect.h>
Newsgroups: la.general
From: rob@xyzoom.info.com (Rob Lingelbach)
Subject: Re: Hiking fees: see LA times 1/7 Metro
Reply-To: rob@xyzoom.info.com (Rob Lingelbach)
Organization: Altruistic Intentions, Hollywood CA
Date: Thu, 7 Jan 1993 23:58:28 GMT

See the Metro section of Thursday's Los Angeles Times, first page, for
an article attempting to explain the permit process for the County
Parks.  The gist of the article is that many people, including those
who administer the permit, are still confused about it.

The timing of the article, being synchronous with this discussion, had
me wondering if the LA Times reads la.general?

-- 
Rob Lingelbach KB6CUN | 2660 Hollyridge Dr LA CA 90068 213 464 6266 (voice) 
rob@xyzoom.info.com   | "I care not much for a man's religion whose dog or 
robl@netcom.com       |  cat are not the better for it."  --Abraham Lincoln
From: jamin@caldera.usc.edu (Sugih Jamin)
Newsgroups: usc.general,la.general
Subject: Looking for housing in Cypress, CA
Date: 11 Jan 1993 22:26:54 -0800
Organization: University of Southern California, Los Angeles, CA
Distribution: la
NNTP-Posting-Host: caldera.usc.edu

Posting for a friend, please reply directly to the given address below.

=======================================================================
Hi netters,

I will be working in Cypress, CA soon and am currently looking
for a place to live within reasonable driving distance.
I am looking to share a house/apt, or to rent a room in
a house.

Please reply to exupeha@exu.ericsson.se or call me at
 214.997.4261

Thanks

/petrus
----------------

-- 
sugih
From: tylerh@cco.caltech.edu (Tyler R. Holcomb)
Newsgroups: la.general
Subject: Re: Furniture Outlet Store? -correction
Date: 7 Jan 1993 04:29:58 GMT
Organization: California Institute of Technology, Pasadena
NNTP-Posting-Host: punisher.caltech.edu

longo@sfpp.com (Bob Longo) writes:

>In article <1i5h1gINNmts@gap.caltech.edu>, tylerh@cco.caltech.edu (Tyler R. Holcomb) writes:
>> atrium!sysop@bodedo.UUCP writes:
>> 
>>>Is there any furniture outlet stores in the LA area? Or a superstore?
>> 
>>>Please post in this newsgroup for the benefit of others.
>> 
>> for OFFICE furniture, which is typically well-built and surprisingly
>> versatile, I recommend the clust of used office furniture store clostered
>> about the 605/10 interchange, and RB furniture in particular.
>>                                  ^^^^
                                   WRONG!

I don't recall the name of the place.  I should now better than to
post with a fever...
-- 
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Tyler Holcomb   *   "Remember, one treats others with courtesy and repsect *
tylerh@juliet   *   not because they are gentlemen or gentlewomen, but     *
  caltech.edu   *   because you are."  - paraphrased from Garth Henrichs   *
Newsgroups: la.general
From: rob@xyzoom.info.com (Rob Lingelbach)
Subject: Re: Hiking fees for L.A. County trails?
Reply-To: rob@xyzoom.info.com (Rob Lingelbach)
Organization: Altruistic Intentions, Hollywood CA
Date: Wed, 6 Jan 1993 20:42:40 GMT

In article <1ievikINN6ra@west.West.Sun.COM> markk@cypress.West.Sun.COM writes:

>and rock solid.  The fee was promptly rescinded.  You won't be paying
>any fees to use Griffifth park for a long time ... now Lake Hollywood,
>that is another story.

Ahem.  Your aside about Lake Hollywood cuts dear to my heart as well;
my running route goes around it.  I know about the development of the
ridges and the proposed roads, but a fee?  

From my own study of the maps of the project, it looks like I can
still enter the Lake perimeter road from the dam entrance and go all
the way around without having to use a security gate (but this might
be wishful thinking).

-- 
Rob Lingelbach KB6CUN | 2660 Hollyridge Dr LA CA 90068 213 464 6266 (voice) 
rob@xyzoom.info.com   | "I care not much for a man's religion whose dog or 
robl@netcom.com       |  cat are not the better for it."  --Abraham Lincoln
From: jimh@pongo.Eng.Sun.COM (jim hori)
Newsgroups: la.general
Subject: Re: Store for CD's: incredible selection
Date: 4 Jan 93 17:39:49 GMT
Distribution: la
Organization: Sun
NNTP-Posting-Host: pongo71

In article <1993Jan4.012218.29330@elroy.jpl.nasa.gov> fod@elroy.jpl.nasa.gov (Frank O'Donnell) writes:
>Has anyone into international music gotten a good feel
>for how Virgin's selection compares to that of, say,
>Tower or Rhino?  Or tried any special orders?  I often
>find myself in the position of looking for things that
>are released in, say, France that are a little tough to
>special-order at Tower or Rhino; because there's another
>big Virgin Megastore in Paris stocking primarily European
>releases, I thought this might somehow work to the benefit
>of the outlet here (which I haven't yet been able to
>visit).

I had the same thought regarding UK pressings (being easier to find
at Virgin), but that is not the case as far as I can tell. Tower has
diligent international buyers and has the money to stock. Both Rhino
and Aron's, which have the best independent international sections,
suffer from cashflow problems (Rhino more so than Aron's).

Having said that, the approach that works best for me is to establish
relationships with buyers. At Aron's the international buyer is Derek
Rath, usually in on weekends. At Rhino, Sam Epstein, in at varying
times, handles the international section. At Virgin, the main buyer
is Dave Crouch.

Tell them I sent you, and you will receive a warm smile.

....
jimh@west.sun.com
Newsgroups: la.general
From: ECZ5BXW@MVS.OAC.UCLA.EDU (Brian Warling)
Subject: Re: Store for CD's: incredible selection
Reply-To: ecz5bxw@mvs.oac.ucla.edu
Date: 3 Jan 93 22:51:08 PST

In article <1i8frlINNb5h@gap.caltech.edu>, on 4 Jan 1993 04:53:09 GMT,
peri@cco.caltech.edu (Michal Leah Peri) writes:

>
>For classical CD's I'm fond of Canterburys.  They're on Colorado
>just East of Lake Ave in Pasadena.  I especially like the fact that
>they're a neighborhood store and not part of a big chain.  They have
>a nice selection of multi-CD composer sets that make great gifts.
>
>Also, about 3 blocks to the east is PooBahs, at Colorado and Wilson,
>which sells used CD's at bargain rates.  The selection is hit-and-miss
>but fun for browsing.

For an excellent selection of used CD's, try Aron's on Highland (just
south of Fountain) in Hollywood. Great selection. Some of the Penny
Lane's (Pasadena, Westwood) are good too, as is Moby Disc.

I visited the Virgin Megastore for the first time today. Parking is
a lot easier than Tower in West Hollywood, but the store looked so
slick. The prices were also up there too, unless the CD was a current
hit. But the Jazz (and other non-Rock) sections looked well-stocked.
Virgin didn't have any of the hard-to-find rock CDs I've been looking
for. The Virgin store is a lot easier for me to get to, but I think
I'll stick with Tower in West Hollywood (which is much better than
the other Towers around).

Brian Warling
ecz5bxw@mvs.oac.ucla.edu
From: davidp@stealth.usc.edu (David Peterson)
Newsgroups: la.general
Subject: Canterbury clothing stores, in L.A.?
Date: 4 Jan 1993 11:06:18 -0800
Organization: University of Southern California, Los Angeles, CA
Distribution: la
Reply-To: davidp@usc.edu
NNTP-Posting-Host: stealth.usc.edu


Hi,

Does anyone know of a Canterbury store (or a store that sells thier items)
in the L.A. area?

For those not familar with it, Canterbury is a New Zealand company that
makes athletic wear, probably best known for their excellent quality rugby
shirts. If you don't like turtlenecks, they're the best thing you can find
to go skiing in. 

-dave.
Xref: sparky la.general:1160 oc.general:146
From: faigin@aero.org (Daniel P. Faigin)
Newsgroups: la.general,oc.general
Subject: Re: I hate "Rapid" Transit District (RTD)
Date: 7 Jan 93 07:30:24
Organization: The Aerospace Corporation, El Segundo, CA
Distribution: ca
	<FAIGIN.93Jan6072559@soldan.aero.org>
	<1993Jan7.083710.23522@netcom.com>
NNTP-Posting-Host: soldan.aero.org
In-reply-to: johnwu@netcom.com's message of Thu, 7 Jan 1993 08:37:10 GMT

On Thu, 7 Jan 1993 08:37:10 GMT, johnwu@netcom.com (John M. Wu) said:

> If it's feasible to widen freeways from four to six or eight lanes, then
> fine.  But there is only a small amount of space between the #4 lane and
> the wall in many parts of LA freeways.  Widening freeways is not a solution
> to our problems. 

I'd agree with you on that. Furthermore, widening a freeway with a wall, as is
being done on I-5 in the SF Valley, requires tearing down the wall and
rebuilding it.

> With Metrolink, removing existing lanes may not be necessary.  But I believe
> 15 years ago when there was no rail, stealing existing lanes would be
> a small step in making buses accepted.  

Just remember, almost forty years ago, when the freeways were first built, the
center divider was reserved on some for the Pacific Electric (in particular,
the US-101 over Cahuenga Pass had the SFValley line running over it to North
Hollywood).

The more things change....

Daniel
--
[W]:The Aerospace Corp. M1/055 * POB 92957 * LA, CA 90009-2957 * 310/336-8228
[Email]:faigin@aerospace.aero.org              [Vmail]:310/336-5454 Box#13149
		    "And as they say, the rest is compost"
From: mpark@skat.usc.edu (Min Park Dunkle)
Newsgroups: usc.general,la.general
Subject: Roommate Wanted
Date: 4 Jan 1993 13:32:42 -0800
Organization: University Computing Services--U.S.C.
Distribution: ca
NNTP-Posting-Host: skat.usc.edu

**************************************************************
              1 bedroom in SilverLake
**************************************************************

Female/Male
Your own private room in a two bedroom apartment.
Only $300.00 a month including util. except phone.
*nice area*
Sharing Kitchen, and living areas.
Laundry area.
Availble NOW!
Call Jeff/Mindy at 213-667-9177 or write me back.

Newsgroups: la.general