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Date:         Tue, 22 Dec 1992 08:55:43 -0500
From:         Amanda Walker <amanda@INTERCON.COM>
Subject:      An electronic Christmas card

+ Sequentia sancti Evangelii secundum Lucam:

In illo tempore: Exiit edictum a Caesare Augusto, ut describeretur universus
orbis.  Haec descriptio prima facta est a praeside Syriae Cyrino: et ibant
omnes ut profiterentur singuli in suam civitatem.  Ascendit autem et Joseph a
Galilaea de civitate Nazareth, in Judaeam in civitatem David, quae vocatur
Bethlehem: eo quod esset de domo, et familia David, ut profiteretur eum Maria
desponsata sibi uxore praegnante.  Factum est autem, cum essent ibi, impleti
sunt dies ut pareret.  Et peperit Filium suum primogenitum, et pannis eum
involvit, et reclinavit eum in prasesipio: quia non erat eis locus in
diversorio.  Et pastores erant in regione eadem vigilantes, et custodientes
vigilias noctis super gregem suum.  Et ecce Angelus Domini stetit juxta
illos, et claritas Dei circumfulsit illos, et timuerunt timore magno.  Et
dixit illis Angelus: Nolite timere: ecce enim evangelizo vobis gaudium
magnum, quod erit omni populo: quia natus est vobis hodie Salvator, qui est
Christus Dominus, in civitate David.  Et hoc vobis signum: Invenietis
infantem pannis involutum, et positum in praesipio.  Et subito facta est cum
Angelo multitudo militiae caelestis laudantium Deum, et dicentium: Gloria in
altissimus Deo, et in terra pax hominibus bonae voluntatis.


May the peace and joy of Christ be with you, your families, and friends this
Christmas and always,

Amanda Walker
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Newsgroups: bit.listserv.catholic
Date:         Tue, 22 Dec 1992 08:00:26 PST
From:         "John R. Covert 22-Dec-1992 1104" <covert@COVERT.ENET.DEC.COM>
Subject:      RE: Questions

>I was wondering what pentecoste and ash wednesday were for,  can anyone
>enlighten me here?

Pentecost is the annual commemoration of the day shortly after Our Lord's
Ascension on which the Holy Spirit descended upon the Apostles and Disciples
gathered together.  You can read about it in the second chapter of the Acts
of the Apostles.  The name means "fiftieth day", because it occurred fifty
days after the Resurrection.

Ash Wednesday is the first day of the Lenten Season, in which we prepare
ourselves for the commemoration of Our Lord's Death and Resurrection.  It
occurs on a Wednesday which is forty days (not counting Sundays) before
Easter, forty being a traditional "long" period of penitence and also a
scriptural reference to Our Lord's forty days of fasting in the wild.  It
is called "Ash Wednesday" because of the tradition of receiving ashes on
our foreheads on that day to begin our Lenten Fast.  The ashes are usually
received with the traditional words "Remember, O Man, that thou art dust,
and unto dust shalt thou return." or a modernization of the same.  See
Genesis 3:19.

/john
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Date:         Wed, 23 Dec 1992 03:55:06 PST
From:         "John R. Covert 23-Dec-1992 0618" <covert@COVERT.ENET.DEC.COM>
Subject:      Re: OR

>Randall Terry and Operation Rescue are pursuing a criminal path to stop
>what they feel to be a crime.  This is a case where two wrongs do not make
>a right.  End of excerpt from "Edward J. Branley"
>
>Out of curiosity, would you say the same about MLK?  After all,
>he did things that were illegal, did he not?  He spent time in jail.
>Yet he did what he did out of a conviction that the laws were
>unjust. * Gordon Zaft

In fact, MLK and the Catechism agree.

MLK said that just as we have an obligation to obey just laws, we also
have an obligation to disobey unjust laws.

(2242) [My unauthorized translation; French has been posted before]
The citizen is obligated in conscience to not follow the orders of civil
authorities when these precepts are contrary to the exigencies of moral
order, to the fundamental rights of persons, or the the messages of the
Gospel.  ...  [Citizens] are permitted to defend their rights and those
of their fellow citizens against the abuse of power, respecting the limits
of natural law and the law of the Gospel.

The Church states and MLK clearly stated the obligation to disobey unjust
laws.  This would include laws which do not respect the inalienable right
to life of every human individual, from the moment of conception.  (See
paragraph 2273 of the Catechism.)

In such cases, Christians are called in conscience to disobey the state.
Christians may not put the state before God.  The Catechism is most clear
in this regard.

/john
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Date:         Tue, 22 Dec 1992 09:06:06 -0800
From:         John Weitzel <weitzel@CIRRUS.SEAS.UCLA.EDU>
Subject:      Re: (no subject given)

Okay!
May God Bless all inhabitants of this wonderful world!

From Morning Prayer Liturgy of the Hours

God our Father ,
you sent your Son,
to free mankind from the power of death.
May we who celebrate the coming of Christ
share more fully in divine life,
for he lives and reigns with you and the Holy Spirit,
on God forever and ever.

and tehe people said ...


Amen.


John L Weitzel
UCLA
SEAS
6436 Boelter Hall
Los Angeles, CA 90024
(310)825-2757 work
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.catholic
From: bdboyle@erenj.com (Bryan D. Boyle)
Subject: Participation prayers wanted
Originator: bdboyle@maverick1.erenj.com
Organization: Exxon Research and Engineering, NJ
Distribution: usa
Date: Wed, 23 Dec 1992 16:39:14 GMT

I would ask the group to pray for those of us that are participating as
lay ministers of the various functions in the Mass over the Christmas
celebration, that, through our activity (activities) and ministries, 
we bring Christ to the congregations we serve on this most joyous 
festival.

(now, if I can just get rid of this hoarseness so I can at least sound
healthy reading the readings....:-))

Peace to all of you at this time!

-- 
Bryan D. Boyle     |Exxon doesn't pay me to voice their opinions...
Senior Engineer    |Semper ubi sub ubi.
bdboyle@erenj.com  |On a clear day, you can see forever on the Net...
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Date:         Thu, 31 Dec 1992 11:33:25 MST
From:         Brent Winiger <ABDWINIG@IDBSU.IDBSU.EDU>
Subject:      Re: R-movies in parochial school?
              31 Dec 1992 17:36:10 GMT from <stevek@CCO.CALTECH.EDU>

On Thu, 31 Dec 1992 17:36:10 GMT Steven P. Krekeler said:
>I would appreciate the newsgroup's reaction to the following.  My
>seventh-grade daughter, who attends a parish school, was shown the movie
>"Lord of the Flies" in class shortly before Christmas break.  The only
>preparation for the rather graphic scenes that they would see was the
>brief explanaition that they would be reading the book "next year".
>

At our parish school a couple of years ago, the seventh grade teacher who was
a young male only recently out of college, let the several members of the
class talk him into showing "The Lost Boys" on a party day.  Several kids in
the class were offended & complained to parents who complained to the
principal.  That teacher was gone two days later, as he should have been.


>Am I living in times past, or is this a legitimate complaint?  I would
>appreciate it if someone could tell me how to find the U.S. Catholic
>Conference rating of this movie.  I would like to present an informed
>argument to the class teacher and/or school principal.  Both,
>incidentally, are members of a religious order.


If the movie industry rated the movie "R", it probably was for a good reason.
I'm a firm believer in parents speaking up on issues like this.  Sometimes the
school administrators lose touch with what the teachers are doing. Just because
its a Catholic school, it doesn't mean the teachers are exempt from poor
judgement from time to time.  The teachers need to know that their actions are
being monitored by concerned parents.

Brent
From: fr@compu.com (Fred Rump from home)
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.catholic
Subject: Re: contributions
Date: 31 Dec 92 20:16:36 GMT
Organization: CompuData Inc.

ITNEWS@INDYCMS.IUPUI.EDU (DICK HAROLD) writes:

>When I was out of work for three years, sometime back, I was surprised
>at how much help our family received from the church and its members.
>Even the K of C paid my membership dues for me.  School tuition was
>suspended for our five children, all at a cost to those who gave every
>Sunday.  Now, when a request for money is made, I think long and hard
>about how many dollars I should contribute.

I'm so glad to see this. Way back in the early seventies the pastor of Our 
Lady of Calvary church here in Phila, told me that he wanted a 10 year 
contribution history in his computer records. I asked him why. His answer was 
that if any member ever comes to him for help, he will not even ask why if he 
can see that this person helped the parish on a regular basis over time. He 
said he doesn't think he has the right to ask why the need for help when that 
person never asked him to explain what he was donating money for.

That parish away back then started inculcating this philosophy of help to its 
over 3000 families. Msgr Wierzalis has gone to his reward and two pastors have 
followed him but there is still no tuition for the school of 1200 kids. The 
finance committee gets a monthly printout of parents with kids in school who 
did not meet the $13/wk avg that the parish expects from each family in order 
to meet all of its financial needs. So for 13 bucks a week you could have 5 
kids in school. Obviously not every family donates $700/yr but the concept of 
joint responsibility has been planted. Some give more some give less but as a 
group they manage just like the church of old before tuition and high diocesan 
finance. 


>When we left church I asked Ben about why he put something in the basket.
>He said he remembered one day when his school room was cold and how all
>the students had to put on their coats.  He said he wanted to help those
>children so they could have heat in school. (I had put in my usual visitors
>couple of bucks.)

Give your son a pat on the back from the people on the net. He must be a 
beautiful boy. My son has always been much more selfish and figured dad would 
take care of it. 

Fred
-- 
W. Fred Rump 	office:	   fred@COMPU.COM     'mans feet have grown/so big 
26 Warren St.   home: fred@icdi10.compu.com  that he/forgets his littleness'
Beverly, NJ. 08010                          		Don Marquis 
609-386-6846    bang:uunet!cdin-1!icdi10!fr   
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Organization: Argus Consulting, Tucson, AZ
X-Mailer: Mail User's Shell (7.2.4 2/2/92)
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.catholic
Date:         Wed, 23 Dec 1992 12:55:02 -0700
From:         "Gordon C. Zaft" <zaft@CARITAS.COTDAZR.ORG>
Subject:      Re: Questions

On Dec 22,  3:25pm, Chad M Bormann wrote:
} Subject: Questions
} I was wondering what pentecoste and ash wednesday were for,  can anyone
} enlighten me here?
}
}-- End of excerpt from Chad M Bormann

Pentecost is the day we celebrate the first Pentecost, the day when
the Holy Spirit descended on the apostles (don't have my Bible here
at work so I can't give you references).

        Pentecost is basically the birthday of the Church.

        Ash Wednesday is the first day of Lent, the season of penitence
and preparation before Holy Week.  It is the custom to receive ashes
on one's forehead on this day as a sign of penitence.

        Hope this helps a bit.

GZ

--
* Gordon Zaft     Argus Consulting  4500 E. Sunrise #N-6, Tucson, AZ 85718
* zaft@caritas.cotdazr.org | noao.edu!coyote!caritas!zaft
                 Semper fidelis Christi et Vicarii sui.
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Newsgroups: bit.listserv.catholic
Date:         Mon, 21 Dec 1992 17:53:14 -0500
From:         mayo@CS.UTK.EDU
Subject:      "One Bread, One Body", Dec. 26

                    Saturday, December 26, 1992
                        Stephen, First Martyr

Acts 6:8-10                   Psalm 31            Matthew 10:17-22

                         CALVARY-CHRISTMAS

"You will be hated by all on account of Me.  But whoever holds out till the
 end will escape death" --Matthew 10:22

On this second day of Christmas, the Church presents to us Stephen, the first
martyr.  The festive red color of Christmas is mixed with the blood-red of
the martyr.  The Church proclaims that Christmas is not just a custom,
diversion, or triviality, Christmas is glorious, and serious.  Christmas
is the proclamation of Jesus' lordship.  It is the Word confronting the
world (see Wis 18:15).  The Church's Christmas characters are not Santa,
Rudolph, or Frosty.  Our Christmas saints are the fearless martyr Stephen,
the massacred babies of Bethlehem, the bloodied Thomas Becket, joyful and
sorrowful mother Mary, and Joseph the impoverished refugee.  The Church
proclaims that Christmas is not primarily for the consumers and shoppers
but for the witnesses, the persecuted, and the poor.

You may have had the _world's_ Christmas for years.  Why don't you try
something different and celebrate the _Word's_ Christmas?  Repent, obey,
witness, and begin Christ's Christmas.


Prayer:  Father, give me a good, old-fashioned, Bethlehem-Calvary-Christmas.

Promise: "As Stephen was being stoned he could be heard praying, 'Lord Jesus,
          receive my spirit.'" --Acts 7:59

Praise:  Stephen fearlessly and boldly stood up for Jesus and laid down his
         life for Him.
-----
From "One Bread, One Body", reproduced with permission.
Nihil Obstat: Rev. Edward J. Gratsch
Imprimatur:  +Most Rev. James H. Garland, V.G.
              Archdiocese of Cincinnati, August 17, 1992.
From: elendil@mintir.new-orleans.la.us (Edward J. Branley)
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.catholic
Subject: EWTN
Date: 4 Jan 93 03:04:07 GMT
Organization: Minas Tirith BBS (Public Access Usenet for New Orleans)

Was wondering if anyone had any opinions regarding EWTN and its programming.
We're just starting to get EWTN for more than prime time.  What I've seen of
it, I'm not overly impressed.  The daily Mass from Mother Angelica's monastery
in Alabama is ok, but some of the lecture shows are downright boring.  So, I'm
hoping that some of you are familiar with some of the priests they have doing
these shows, that way I can find out the easy way if any of these guys are
worth watching.


|Edward J. Branley         elendil@mintir.new-orleans.la.us|
|Seashell Software, Metairie, LA            +1-504-455-5087|
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.catholic
From: sister@iastate.edu (Chad M Bormann)
Subject: Questions
Organization: Iowa State University, Ames, IA
Distribution: na
Date: Tue, 22 Dec 1992 15:25:44 GMT

I was wondering what pentecoste and ash wednesday were for,  can anyone
enlighten me here? 


-- 
A Kiss from my lips
could melt your heart,
or turn it to stone.
    --SISTER
From: bobweiss@acsu.buffalo.edu (Robert Weiss)
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.catholic
Subject: Re: Operation Rescue
Date: 21 Dec 92 11:16:25 GMT
Organization: UB

elendil@seashell.mintir.new-orleans.la.us (Edward J. Branley) writes:

[...]

>>
>>         For example, Randall Terry was sued under the RICO statutes in
>> an attempt to confiscate all his personal possessions.  This is a gross
>> abuse of power.
>>

>Randall Terry is a racketeer.  His tactics are no better than the boss of an
>organized crime family.  I agree with the application of RICO against such a
>criminal.

	Edward,
		Thanks for including this bit in your post. I think
that it speaks volumes about where exactly your sentiments lie.
I thought that your posts against Operation Rescue reflected more
propaganda and twist than were warranted. The above is indicative
of where you are coming from, and will help me filter anything
further you have to say on OR.


===============================================================================
bob weiss				              bobweiss@acsu.buffalo.edu
From: zerucha@shell.portal.com (Thomas E Zerucha)
Subject: Re: contributions
Keywords: money
Organization: Portal Communications Company -- 408/973-9111 (voice) 408/973-8091 (data)
Date: Wed, 30 Dec 1992 22:42:52 GMT

I remember what happened a few years ago which gave me a perspective on
donations.  A Baptist church ran into some financial trouble and our Archbishop
gave them some money.  This was at a time that churches were closing and other
catholic charities did not have abundant funds.  When asked why he did this,
the archbishop said, in effect, that it was not anybody else's busniess what
he did with the money.  Needless to say, contributions dropped.

I think that parishes have two problems.  1.  Most people don't know where the
money goes so there is no feedback as to how much need there is.  2.  If they
did know some of the places, they would actively cut the paltry sums they give
now.

Since I don't know the actual history, I have to go on some anecdotes from
my parents, but in the past, the local church did a lot in the way of helping
the poor, running schools, and anything leftover might go to missions or
religous orders where it would directly do good.  Right now, if I want to
support a soup kitchen, retired religous, or missions, I have to give directly
to them.  Today, the dollars that go into the collection plate are equally
likely to go into something non or pseudo catholic as to something that will
bolster the Church.

This is by no means a blanked indictment of all diosces or churches.  If you
happen to be in a strong, traditional, healthy area you shoul give thanks for
God's mercy.  My point is that there are lukewarm parishes that should not
ask for more than lukewarm support, and those who desire to abandon orthodoxy
that should not ask the faithful to participate in a self-destructive act,
even financially.

---
zerucha@shell.portal.com - main email address
zerucha@fim001.ets.ford.com - work address
Thomas Zerucha / 24075 Lee Baker / Southfield MI 48075 - hardcopy
(313)594-4941 - work phone
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.catholic
From: bz223@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Danny Guy Frezza)
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.catholic
Subject: Vatican on Internet???
Date: 22 Dec 1992 15:01:37 GMT
Organization: Case Western Reserve University, Cleveland, OH (USA)
Reply-To: bz223@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Danny Guy Frezza)
NNTP-Posting-Host: hela.ins.cwru.edu


	Does any have any information concerning the Vatican being on the
Internet? I wonder if there is available documents, etc.. that are
accessible to everyone? I haven't heard of it, but thought I would ask if
there does exist an Internet connection to the Vatican.

-- 

Dan Frezza
Internet: bz223@cleveland.Freenet.Edu

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Date:         Mon, 28 Dec 1992 12:02:23 -0600
From:         Medusa Oblon Got a Perm <TBEAUDOIN@UMKCVAX1.BITNET>
Subject:      Re: Moral Activity (was Re: Asylum)

Due to the inordinate amount of mail this list generates, I must sadly
sign off. However, I wanted to post a closing question to the group --
has the size of CATHOLIC made it too imposing or become too unwieldy?
I can't hope to thoughtfully sit down and read through 50+ messages
a day from this list alone.  What we need, perhaps, is some sort of
net-wide UTNE READER to filter out all the noise that exists on high-volume
lists.
        Good day, everyone!

Thomas Beaudoin

TBEAUDOIN@VAX1.UMKC.EDU
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Date:         Sun, 27 Dec 1992 15:12:16 -0500
From:         mayo@CS.UTK.EDU
Subject:      "One Bread, One Body", Dec. 31

                    Thursday, December 31, 1992
                          Saint Sylvester

I John 2:18-21               Psalm 96             John 1:1-18

                           FINISHING UP

"Children, it is the final hour." --I John 2:18

On this last day of the secular year, we can tie up the loose ends of our
year and be able to say what Jesus said moments before His death: "It is
finished" (Jn 19:30).  The Lord promised He would bring to completion every
good work which He has begun (Phil 1:6).  Consequently, there's no need for
us to be half-done, half-repentant, half-healed, or half-reconciled.  We
don't even have to be almost done.  We can be finished.  We don't have to
carry a backlog of things into the new year.  A new year in which we're
trying to fulfill old responsibilities is not much of a new year.  Therefore,
we should repent of every sin, forgive all who have hurt us, share our faith
with all those the Lord has put into our lives, obey every call, and do
every work.

Some of you may have more than a couple of things left to do.  Some may even
have a backlog of several years.  There seems to be no way you'll ever catch
up.  Cast all your cares on Jesus (I Pt 5:7).  He cares for you and will do
the impossible.  He will be your Lord, bring order into your life, and give
you a truly new year.


Prayer:  Jesus, save me from being overwhelmed by the demands of life and by
         confusion.

Promise: "In the beginning was the Word; the Word was in God's presence, and
          the Word was God." --Jn 1:1

Praise:  John gave his life to Jesus on New Year's Eve.
-----
From "One Bread, One Body", reproduced with permission.
 Nihil Obstat: Rev. Edward J. Gratsch
 Imprimatur:  +Most Rev. James H. Garland, V.G.
               Archdiocese of Cincinnati, August 17, 1992.
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.catholic
From: elendil@seashell.mintir.new-orleans.la.us (Edward J. Branley)
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.catholic
Subject: Re: Operation Rescue
Date: Thu, 24 Dec 92 12:55:52 CST
Organization: Seashell Software

"Gordon C. Zaft" <zaft@CARITAS.COTDAZR.ORG> writes:

> On Dec 22,  8:28am, "Edward J. Branley" wrote:
> } Subject: Re: Operation Rescue
> } Have you read any of my posts?  I thought I had made it clear that I object
> } Operation Rescue's use of violence to further their cause.  I apologize tha
> } have not made that clearer to you, since you would not be trying to bait me
> } with such comparisons if you understood my position.
> }
> }-- End of excerpt from "Edward J. Branley"
>
> Ed, no one is defending the use of violence here.  OR members are pledged
> to be nonviolent ( I will type in a copy of the pledge OR participants
> are supposed to sign later).  If there has been violence by OR participants
> at OR rescues, such violence is not approved of, encouraged, or condoned
> by OR.
>
> GZ

Gordon, if OR members are pledging the use of non-violence, then many have
broken that pledge, based on videotaped coverage of protests last summer.  The
Baton Rouge protest is a classic deniability sham.  It may not have been
officially sanctioned by OR, but OR officials were at the staging area at
3:30am, and on the protest site at 6:00 am.  Additionally, I didn't hear any
ringing condemnations of the violence in Baton Rouge by OR.

I think what is happening is that, as clinics step up their defenses, OR is
stepping up their protest measures.  If you and others in OR don't want things
to get ugly at clinic sites, then it's going to require active disapproval of
such activities.



|Edward J. Branley         elendil@mintir.new-orleans.la.us|
|Seashell Software, Metairie, LA            +1-504-455-5087|