From: henry@ADS.COM (Henry Mensch)
Subject: Re: Italian railways--is 1st class worth it?
Organization: Advanced Decision Systems; a div of Booz, Allen & Hamilton
Date: Tue, 15 Dec 1992 01:39:44 GMT
In article <1992Dec15.013944.15191@ads.com> henry@ADS.COM (Henry Mensch) writes:
        [ ....... stuff deleted ...... ]
>the shorter runs usually don't have reserved seats.  having a
>"reserved" sticker on your seat doesn't mean anything; we reserved
>seats out of paris, and i had to chase away from bozos who chose to
>ignore the "reserved" (i forget how that goes in french) placard on
>the seats ...

Well, I have not come across that in France. I think that is a common
phenomenon. It is also worse if it is not an intercity train or if
the people who take the trains are not very  educated or are selfish.
If you really come across that, the best thing to do, IMHO, is, to ask
the conductor for help. It is his/her job. 

In article <BzABrp.L5D@news.cso.uiuc.edu> magdi@uxh.cso.uiuc.edu (Magdi N Azer) writes:
> I have had just the opposite experience on Italian trains.  My experiences
>between Rome-Paris, Paris-Rome, and Rome-Florence have all been that the trains
>run right on time.  I think a distinction should be made.  Trains in Southern
>Italy tend to run late, but the trains in Northern Italy always run on time.

Well, it should be noted that it is different if you take a train between
two different countries, say between Italy and France.
I had horrible experience with Italian railways, but the
train (IC train) I took from Italy to Austria was very comfortable.
(It was an Austrian train.)
I have taken confortable trains between France and Italy and they 
are SNCF trains.
Also, I guess this generalization about Northern and Southern Italy is
not true. Last time I tried to make a connection at Genoa, the first
train was 1 hour late. I had to wait for another hour for a second
train. In this second train, people were sitting at every possible place
you can/cannot think of.

>
>I`ve never 
>taken second class, but my experience with people, sharing a cuchette with

Well, try taking second class!! May be you are being exposed to only
a certain cross-section of population, namely the people who can
afford to take first class. Take a local train and take the second class
cabin.  

>my wife and total strangers has been very enjoyable and comfortable and relaxed.Italians, IMHO are some of the most friendly people in the world, and I always enjoy my trips with them.
>

In article <1424@chorus.chorus.fr> grob@chorus.fr (Lori S. Grob) writes:
        [... stuff deleted ...]
>Train travel in France and Italy is a wonderful experience
>and aside from this poster I have never heard it discribed
>as cramped and smelly. I have taken slow "express" trains
>in the summer, in the south and found them crowded but
>the crowded, smelly, bumpy experience that the previous 
>poster is describing is just something that is not
>usual. Especially not for someone going between major cities.

Oh, that has happened to me before. Note, I guess the "smelly" bit comes
from  being "crowded". This is the scenerio I came across in Italy:
summer, very hot, 
lots of people on the train, no air-condition, people talking loudly
on the train, everyone sweating, noisy slow local train .... 

>Perhaps he or she should stick to driving. 
You kidding? Do you know how they drive in Italy? Now you may want to
resort to flying. This is my experience in a restaurant at the airport
in Rome. I went to a restaurant inside the airport. I ordered a fish
dish (price is X -- has forgotton exact price).  Moments later, the
waiter came and said they ran out of fish. So I ordered something else,
say steak (say, price is Y<X). When I got the bill, I saw that I was
being billed amount X for fish. So I let the waiter know a mistake
has been  made. Do you know what he said to me? He said that since
they first put "fish" into the cashier, they cannot change. And he
will not change it!! This is completely ridiculous. The problem is not
the money, but that I should not be charged for something I have not
consumed (of course I am very willing to pay for the food I have
eaten). I could not believe someone will come up with such an 
explanation for over-charging someone. (So I made it clear to the waiter
that I will not pay for what I have not eaten. Since I refused to pay for
the bill, they only had to get the manager who put the bill right.)

Dicky.