HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: rickert@NeXTwork.Rose-Hulman.Edu (John H. Rickert)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
Subject: Re: Elias/STATS projections
Date: 30 Sep 92 18:21:25 GMT
Article-I.D.: cs.1992Sep30.182125.15270
Organization: Rose-Hulman Institute of Technology


In article <1992Sep29.213728.25271@nntpd.lkg.dec.com>  
g_waugaman@nac.enet.dec.com (Glenn R. Waugaman) writes:
> Did Elias say if they even looked at minor league stats?  The impression I 
> got from the "similar players" listings was that they didn't.  If they 
> really did just compare the first partial season with those of players of 
> the past, common sense would tell you that that is a terrible system...

No, they just made some snide remarks about the predictions that other people  
make. Similar to remrks that they've made earlier about ideas that they've  
now adopted (usually saying, hey! look at this neat thing we've found)

john rickert        rickert@nextwork.rose-hulman.edu
Cal Eldred raises his record to 21-7 (AAA+AL) with a 7-4 Brewer
victory over the Mariners. I can't take much more of this...
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
From: (Gerry Voyeur is My Middle Name Gryschuk)
Subject: Kirsch Kan't Kancel Karnal Kaper(was Re: running <-> errors?)
Organization: University of Saskatchewan
Date: Sat, 3 Oct 1992 04:55:29 GMT

Just because I mostly lurk around here doesn't mean I'm going to let you
guys spoil my fun.

From article <1992Sep30.225140.9215@news2.cis.umn.edu>, by kirsch@staff.tc.umn.edu (Dave Mick Jagger Lips Kirsch) writes:
>
>   Now, you'll have to excuse me while I go book my flight out of the country.
> Honestly, delaying the start of the mock expansion draft 'til next Monday
> doesn't have anything to do with having trouble trying to reach one of the
> expansion owners. (OK, it does.) But I still gotta get out of town anyways, 
> just in case Huckabay's a man of his word .. I mean, hey, I never consented
> to this: 

No but you didn't object at the time either thus you implicitly agreed. 

Where's the r.s.bb legal council? Ted is there legal precedence? Can we
hold them to it?
--
Gerald Gryschuk            Saskatoon,Saskatchewan = a place with 9 months
gerry@sask.usask.ca           of hockey and 3 months of poor skating.
Go Habs!!!
From: gajarsky@pilot.njin.net (Bob Gajarsky)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
Subject: i just heard this on the radio.
Keywords: laugh.
Date: 3 Oct 92 17:23:20 GMT
Organization: Somewhere in Hoboken


i'm listening to wfan the past couple days, and i hear the following
 statements, mainly from hosts of programs:

in comparing mvp candidates, the only categories looked at by ALL
 of the hosts are batting avg, homers, and rbi's.  so, therefore,
 the triple crown ones.  one guy was comparing bonds and pendleton
 (which has been oft-stated here is ridiculous, but follow through)
 and said he couldn't choose between them.  then, the other guy
 asked "what if sheffield had won the triple crown?".  now, mind
 you, he's VERY close to the top in those three categories.  and
 when i look at statistics, i don't look at ABSOLUTE numbers - i 
 look at the vicinity they are in.  and the host said "oh, of course.
 i would have to give it to sheffield hands down".  you're going
 to throw him over 2 playerr because of 2 homers and 6 rbi's???

anyhow, the wfan mvp's, that i've heard the most talk about are:
 a.l. - eckersley, carter, alomar, winfield, puckett
 n.l. - bonds, pendleton, sheffield

cy young - a.l. - eck, mcdowell, morris (!!!! sheesh!)
 n.l. - glavine, maddux.

the funny part is so many people say "morris pitches to the score" 
 when he's shown he doesn't, unless at age 37 he suddenly became
 psychic and different.  the hosts looked at anypitcher
 who had 18,19, or 20 wins and compared them for cy young...oh,
 they mentioned clemens a little bit for cy young.

and today, the one guy said he'd take glavine over maddux because
 glavine "did it with a pennant winner"...ho hum.  like maddux
 can HELP the fact he's not on one?

and the same person said that pendleton has been consistent all
 year long (which is why he'd receive his vote for mvp), whereas
 bonds really got hot at late august / early sept., and that
 the pirates had it pretty much wrapped up by then.  i can think
 of a lot of expos fans who would disagree.

anyhow, here's your morning's humour. - bob gaj
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
From: tedward@cs.cornell.edu (Edward [Ted] Fischer)
Subject: Re: ack, help me...
Organization: Cornell Univ. CS Dept, Ithaca NY 14853
Date: Mon, 28 Sep 1992 23:40:59 GMT

In article <oelqChm00iUyM6QVo0@andrew.cmu.edu> Patrick Jason Soo Hoo <ps3g+@andrew.cmu.edu> writes:
>
>I haven't been following baseball for the past several weeks now, and
>today I looked in the paper and saw several shocking (!) things.  Cone
>was listed as a "former Met" -- he's in Toronto now?  HowTF did that
>happen?

The Mets were out of contention, and he was a free agent at the end of
the year.  The Mets weren't going to be able to sign him, so they got
what they could for him.  They got a weak CF prospect and a good young
2B with power (Jeff Kent).

>Who did the Mets get in return?  (If they got anything less
>than Alomar, I think I'm gonna cry...)

Come on!  The Jays would have to be insane to give that much for six
weeks of a soon-to-be-free-agent.

>Also, Canseco is in Texas and
>Sierra is in Oakland?  Can someone tell me the specifics of this?

Sierra and Russell are also free agents at the end of this year.
Texas traded Sierra, Russell, and Witt for Canseco.  Canseco is signed
for 2-3 more years at *less* than Sierra will get next year.  The
Rangers got a good deal.  The A's got a good deal only if Sierra and
Russell help them win this October.

Cheers,
-Valentine

-- 
Make outs, not walks!					tedward@cs.cornell.edu
Clemens four Cy Young!
From: sport@vax1.mankato.msus.edu
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
Subject: Re: Joe Carter
Date: 1 Oct 92 19:30:28 GMT
Distribution: world,local
Organization: Mankato State University

In article <1992Sep23.234320.1@violet.ccit.arizona.edu>, f67700241@violet.ccit.arizona.edu (Greg Franklin) writes:
> In article <1992Sep24.051823.190@midway.uchicago.edu>, thf2@ellis.uchicago.edu (Citecheck Hell) writes:
>> In article <1992Sep23.145502.1@violet.ccit.arizona.edu> f67700241@violet.ccit.arizona.e
>> 
>> Carter's never had more than 709 PA in a season.  From 1986-91, he's had
>> four seasons around 700 PA, one at 670, and one at 629.
> 
> Urrp.  You're right.  Shows you what happens when I forget my Franklin.
> 
> The point still stands though.  He gets a lot of chances to drive in
> runs, and so 100 RBI is no big challenge.
> 
> Greg "Mockingbird" Franklin      Interviewer: "Sir, how do you spell relief?"
> f67700241@ccit.arizona.edu               Dan: "R-O-L-A-I-D-S-E."               

I'm sorry, no matter how many channces he gets, if a man can drive in 100 RBI's   
every year consistantly, I want that man on my team, period.

MJHeil                    
sport@vax1.mankato.msus.edu
                                  "It's better to be hot and bothered
                                   than satisfied and worried!" - Chris Nelson
From: sivaram@plains.NoDak.edu (Sivaram Hariharan )
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
Subject: Twins might not sign Kirby
Date: 29 Sep 92 05:14:17 GMT
Article-I.D.: plains.20780
Organization: North Dakota Higher Education Computing Network

In an interview, Twins' General manger, Andy Mcphail indicated
that the Twins might lean more towards youth for future seasons
and also indicated that signing free agents is good but can
also lead to a hole out of which it might be difficult to
get out.    
 S.H
Forever Twins
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
From: josh@cbnewsh.cb.att.com (joshua.h.rosenbluth)
Subject: Re: RC/MLV Study
Organization: AT&T
Distribution: na
Date: Mon, 5 Oct 1992 17:49:13 GMT

In article <GRABINER.92Oct4134758@birkhoff.harvard.edu>, grabiner@math.harvard.edu (David Grabiner) writes:

> >    * Finally, doesn't this all mean that the top pitchers are worth
> > more compared to the top hitters than we previously thought.  RC/Out
> > has its largest errors for the greatest hitters.  Take a look back at
> > the 1987 Bill James Abstract and read his evaluation of the 1986
> > Mattingly/Clemens and 1978 Rice/Guidry MVP debates.  Is James aware of
> > his mistake?
> 
> I'm not sure.  There are at least two places in the Abstracts in which
> James mentioned this flaw.

And last night, after submitting my article I read this from the 85 Abstract:

"I've known for a little over a year that the runs created formula had a
problem with players who combine high on-base percentages and high slugging
percentages ... What I was thinking of doing was figuring "context" runs
created - that is, Eddie Murray's runs created would be figured as the
difference between the Orioles' team runs created with Murray, and their
team runs created without him, with his statistics taken out."

However, James never applied his MLV in any writing I've seen.  Including
the Mattingly/Clemens 1987 Abstract debate.  And, RC is higher than MLV even
for high slugging with normal OBPs, or high OBPs with normal slugging.
And in the 1992 Book, he lists the top run producers (in the Fielder comment)
with no caveats.

Josh Rosenbluth (attmail!jrosenbluth)

PS:  I responded to a gentleman by the name of Clay (I deleted the file
     you sent me so I don't know your last name) in email
     (delmarva.evac.Virginia.EDU!drw31) and it bounced.  Hopefully a
     mis-spelling.  Please respond again.
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
From: jmann@vineland.pubs.stratus.com (Jim Mann)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
Subject: Re: Which team is most improved???
Date: 2 Oct 92 13:53:01 GMT
Reply-To: jmann@vineland.pubs.stratus.com

In article <1992Oct2.125852.26781@cs.tulane.edu>  
eebonar@sn01.sncc.lsu.edu (Dave Bonar) writes:
> In article <19822@ector.cs.purdue.edu>, gritter@cs.purdue.EDU (Carl  
R. Gritter) writes...
> >In article <1992Oct1.222355.27143@ringer.cs.utsa.edu>  
crobbins@lonestar.utsa.edu (Chris S. Robbins) writes:
> >>
> >>Lets start a debate.  Which team has improved the most this year.
> > 
> >Its already been stated, but I'll make a case for the Expos.   
However,
> >I'll say out front that the Astros have also improved dramatically  
and
> >who's to really say which team has improved more.
> 
> 	I'm all for the Astro's but I really can't say they improved all
> that much.  If they had shown more pitching I might be willing to  
support
> them for most improved.  As it is, their starting pitching became  
really
> bad.  Their offense improved but not enough.  
> 
> 	I'd have to go for the Expos or the Yankees.

What about the Brewers?  Did anybody really expect them to
still be in the race at this point. It looks like they
won't be eliminated untill the last day of the season. 

I'd have to go with the Brewers in the AL and the Expos in the NL.

On the reverse side of the coin, the biggest disasters have to
be Boston in the AL and LA in the NL.

--
Jim Mann            
Stratus Computer   jmann@vineland.pubs.stratus.com
From: demers@cs.ucsd.edu (David DeMers)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
Subject: Re: Incentive for fourth place?
Date: 6 Oct 92 20:18:46 GMT
Organization: =CSE Dept., U.C. San Diego

In article <IeoPFS200WBNE19lRL@andrew.cmu.edu> bt16+@andrew.cmu.edu (Bill Thomas) writes:

 
>The final AL East standings were:
                                   Home  Away    Last10  Stk.
>Cleveland    76  86  .469  20     41-40 35-46    4-6    L-2
>New York     76  86  .469  20     41-40 35-46    4-6    L-2
 
>    Who is officially fourth? Or is it officially a tie? 
>    Also, is there any incentive for finishing higher than last place,
>but not first, other than pride (in short, do the players divide up
>decreasing amounts of cash)? 

I think they are both 4th but will have a coin flip to determine
draft order (I'm not positive about this however... and I hate
it when other people post misinformation... but the point of
the followup is:)

The second place NL teams get $10,000/player and 3d get $3,000/player.
I think it stops there; don't know if the AL is the same - probably.

-- 
Dave DeMers			 ddemers@UCSD   demers@cs.ucsd.edu
Computer Science & Engineering	C-014		demers%cs@ucsd.bitnet
UC San Diego					...!ucsd!cs!demers
La Jolla, CA 92093-0114	(619) 534-0688, or -8187, FAX: (619) 534-7029
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
From: nissim@mary.fordham.edu (Leonard J. Nissim)
Subject: Re: Belated Post Re Dodgers/Reds Game
Organization: Fordham University
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41    
Distribution: usa
Date: Mon, 28 Sep 1992 21:40:00 GMT
X-Posted-From: mary.fordham.edu
NNTP-Posting-Host: sol.ctr.columbia.edu

In article <1a0v3rINNoqm@mizar.usc.edu>, pcaster@mizar.usc.edu (Dodger) writes
..
> 
>Sorry for not posting this sooner, but I have been sick....stomach
>virus...not sick watching the Dodgers, but that would make anyone
>sick too :-)  

Sad, but very true. 

> 
>The only thing good about this year is the Dodgers don't have
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>to worry much about who to protect in the upcoming draft.
>I doubt they have 15 players on this team worth protecting.

Joke:  The Dodgers highlight film for 1992:  One snapshot, of Kevin 
Gross as he finished his no-hit, shutout victory over the hated jints.
That's the only other good thing I can think of. 
> 
>						Dodger
> 
>PS I'm relieved that tonight is the last late night game.  I no
>longer have to post these depressing losses for the East Coast
>crowd...until next year.  Hopefully, the news next year will be better.
               ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

If not, I will consider suicide as an option.  
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Leonard Nissim, notorious Dodger fanatic     (nissim@mary.fordham.edu)  
Disclaimer:  "I speak only for myself."   
World Championships:  Brooklyn-----1955   
                      Los Angeles--1959  1963  1965  1981  1988
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Last place finishes:  Brooklyn-----1905
                      Los Angeles--1992
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
From: aardvark@locus.com (Warren Usui)
Subject: Re: Bonds "choke"?
Organization: Locus Computing Corporation, Los Angeles, California
Date: Thu, 01 Oct 1992 22:15:45 GMT

In article <1992Oct1.021939.10947@Princeton.EDU> roger@astro.princeton.edu (Roger Lustig) writes:
>Result: ALL players choke, because post-season stats are generally a little
>lower than in the regular season.  Ba-bing.

This actually make sense.  After all, in the regular season the Pirates and
Braves get to pad their stats against the likes of the Dodgers and the
Phillies.  

-- 
Warren Usui
aardvark@locus.com
uunet!lcc!aardvark

Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
From: reynard@susie.cs.scarolina.edu (John Reynard)
Subject: Re: La Russa for Manager of the Year...
Organization: USC  Department of Computer Science
Date: 30 Sep 92 21:38:46 GMT


Amit Likhyani <al1x+@andrew.cmu.edu> writes:

>Excerpts from netnews.rec.sport.baseball: 23-Sep-92 Re: La Russa for
>Manager of.. Michael Lin@McRCIM.McGil (2444)

>> Don't tell me you picked them to finish second
>>     AT THE START OF THE SEASON. 


>I picked them third.  I should get some credit for that.  The funny
>thing is that I picked the Mets second.  All that matters is that I got
>the first place team right.

I picked the Expos 2nd and the Mets 5th getting alot of heat.
Had the Pirates 4th though.  Funny thing is I got a lot more heat
about the two that I was right on than on the Pirates who I
was dead wrong about.  I do remember a large crowd of people both
defending and attacking my original assertation that the Mets were a
5th place team.

John

So close this time, just like 87'
From: sivaram@plains.NoDak.edu (Sivaram Hariharan )
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
Subject: Re: Why bother to watch the World Series?
Date: 6 Oct 92 04:40:24 GMT
Organization: North Dakota Higher Education Computing Network

Why not alternate the Home-field advantage in the playoffs
every 2 years...while continuing to alternate the HF advantage 
every year for the World  series.


Which means.......

Year 1......... AL(W) & NL(W) have HF in playoffs and AL has HF in WS.
Year 2......... AL(W) & NL(W) have HF in playoffs and NL has HF in WS.
Year 3 .........AL(E) & NL(E) have HF in playoffs and AL has HF in WS. 
Year 4 .........AL(E) & NL(E) have HF in playoffs and NL has HF in WS.

SO that both divisions will have years in which they have the HF
in both the playoffs and the WS, have years in which they have HF
in one of them and years in which they have advantage in none.

OF course, it then renders series sweeps as meaningless. For example,
the Jays after taking a game from the TWins at the Metrodome were
1-1 and had taken away the HF from the Twins. However, the Twins
ended the story at Toronto, while always being in danger of getting
blanked in the Sky-dome.

S.H
Forever Twins
 
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
From: thf2@quads.uchicago.edu (Citecheck Hell)
Subject: Re: Gammons' Awards
Keywords: postseason  award  Gammons
Reply-To: thf2@midway.uchicago.edu
Organization: University of Chicago Computing Organizations
Date: Thu, 1 Oct 1992 01:16:33 GMT

In article <30SEP199212214390@ariel.lerc.nasa.gov> ecaxron@ariel.lerc.nasa.gov (Ron Graham) writes:
>I take everything Gammons says with a grain of salt after last-year's 
>pre-season picks for Cy Young and ROY.  Remember?  He chose
>
>		AL		NL
>Cy Young	Clemens		Hurst
>ROY		Naehring	Bagwell
>
>Now, what do those four names all have in common?  Think "Red Sox."
>In all fairness to Gammons, it was the preseason, and few of us know
>what will happen six months ahead of time.  But you have to wonder how
>many other teams he looks over.

On the other hand, he was right on two out of the four.

And neither Naehring nor Hurst were unreasonable picks.  A lot of people
were picking San Diego to win it all, which meant that Hurst would have
been the ace on a division winner.  Naehring would have been a great
shortstop if he hadn't injured his back (who *was* AL ROY last year
anyway?)

>Lofton for AL ROY!  Coming to a headline near you.

Eldred.  Or Listach.  
-- 
           .. . . .  .  .   .    .     .     .    .   .  .  . . . ..
          ted frank | thf2@midway.uchicago.edu | standard disclaimers
         the university of chicago law school, chicago, illinois 60637
From: hobbs@a.cs.wvu.wvnet.edu (Gerald R Hobbs)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
Subject: Re: Swing! Alfredo Swing!
Date: 29 Sep 92 12:16:54 GMT


Yesterday on ESPN, I saw a clip of an at bat by our hero Alfredo in a 
game against the Yankees.  Apparently, it was the fifth inning, it was
raining and Alfredo was trying to speed things up so that the game
would become official.  On the third strike, Alfredo swung across the
plate at a pitch that was about five feet from the strike zone.

What ESPN did not show was what happened after that.  It looked like
Alfredo was headed to the dugout but the catcher did not catch the ball.
What would have happened if the defensive team did not tag out Alfredo
or record the out at first.  Would the out be official on the next pitch
to the next batter?  Would Alfredo be out for running out of the baselines?

-- 
Warren Usui
aardvark@locus.com
uunet!lcc!aardvark

The swing didn't look a whole lot worse than usual for Alfredo.
Seriously folks, he becomes "out" when the umpire deems that
he has abandoned his attempt to reach fist. That, being quite
vague, usually is invoked when the batter reaches the dugout.
Don't confuse this with the out-of-the-baseline rule. That one
only applies to attempts to avoid tags.
         Gerry
Date: Friday, 2 Oct 1992 18:22:46 EST
From: <RVESTERM@vma.cc.nd.edu>
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
Subject: Re: Bonds "choke"?
 <1992Oct1.020833.9870@Princeton.EDU> <92275.012838RVESTERM@vma.cc.nd.edu>
 <bhap-jg@lynx.unm.edu>

this kurt bose dude said, "i agree with everything except point number
two" (probably paraphrased).

point number two was (probably also paraphrased) "some humans react well
to pressure, some humans react poorly to pressure."

that boggles my mind.

you're saying that it is NOT true that some humans react well to pressure
and some humans react poorly to pressure?  wow.

i wonder why valium does such a business.
i wonder why there are firemen.
i wonder why some people get shell-shock.
i wonder why some people DON'T get shell-shock.
i wonder why some aspiring actors get stage fright their first time out,
  and never step on a stage again.
i wonder why people kill themselves.
i wonder many things, now that you have informed me that pressure doesn't
  influence different people in different ways.
From: kbos@carina.unm.edu (Kurt "Some Guy" Bose)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
Subject: Re: Bullpens
Date: 28 Sep 92 07:50:38 GMT
Organization: University of New Mexico, Albuquerque

In article <BvA0zE.5pt@rice.edu> tomscud@ruf.rice.edu (Thomas Reid Scudder) writes:
>Does anyone have any stats on who has the best bullpens in the two leagues?
>I don't have the vast stat library at my fingertips which some of you seem to,
>and I was wondering how Houston's bullpen stacks up, by ERA, RA, and maybe
>save percentage.  (I suspect that they're pretty good, as their top 3 relievers
>(Xavier Hernandez, Doug Jones, and Joe Boever (!)) all have ERAs in the 2.5 or
>lower range, with 90 or so innings each).

The Astrosbullpen hasn't been bad this year.  ERA is a stat you have to use with
a grain of salt when dealing with the Astros, since their Dome deflates offense
so much.  Still, my gut would place the bullpen ERA between 3.25 and 3.45 in a
normal park.  Pretty good. 

Save percentage is slightly higher than NL average, but even if that isn't just
normal fluctuations (which is my assumption here), it means one game or so. The
save+hold percentage is right at average levels...

The interesting statistic is the number of inherited runners scored.  Only 57
of 235 inherited runners have scored, which is absolutely phenomenal.  This is
about 24% of IRs scoring, versus about 32% on average.  Unfortunately, this has
a very down side, which I will bring up in response to your next post.

Overall, I think it's very possible that the bullpen on the Astros has been one
of the more effective in the league.  I'd take the Reds pen first, possibly the
Padres or Giants as well.  The Expos have been pretty good, and the Cardinals
have had good bullpen support as well.  I'd place the Astros in the thick of
that pack, even including the help their park gives them.

-- 
Kurt Bose (as in Daisy, not Rose) *  kbos@carina.unm.edu * Make outs, not walks!
Keeper of the R.S.BB FAQ, and Junior Stathead {tm} * Yay!  Gary Blickhan's back!
Be kind...don't disillusion the RBI-lovers. * Net.Agent, "Doublin" David Rossing
I'd rather see Doug Dascenzo pitch than suffer through Roger McDowell's batting.
Organization: University of Maine System
Date: Thursday, 1 Oct 1992 23:09:35 EDT
From: Ryan R Robbins <IO20456@MAINE.MAINE.EDU>
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
Subject: Re: Question about lack of a starter
 <1992Sep30.203711.21715@tcsi.com>

Clemens was NOT the starting pitcher in that game. Hesketh was the
starting pitcher. Being in the starting lineup meant nothing. In
order to have been the starting pitcher, Clemens would have had to
have thrown at least one pitch. I don't know what box score you saw,
but it was incorrect. The official scorer made it clear during the
Red Sox radio broadcast that Clemens was not the starting pitcher.
Just thought I'd clear this up.

+===============================================================+
||   RYAN ROBBINS                    INTERNET:                 ||
||   UNIVERSITY OF MAINE             IO20456@MAINE.MAINE.EDU   ||
+===============================================================+
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball