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Approved-By:  Bill McGarry <wtm@SHELDEV.SHEL.ISC-BR.COM>
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.l-hcap
Date:         Tue, 21 Jul 1992 11:16:12 EDT
Reply-To:     Bill McGarry <wtm@sheldev.shel.isc-br.com>
From:         Bill McGarry <wtm@sheldev.shel.isc-br.com>
Subject:      Handicap Digest # 2806
X-To:         LHCAP <l-hcap@VM1.NODAK.EDU>

                             THE HANDICAP DIGEST

                                 Issue # 2806

                            Monday, July 20, 1992

Today's Topics:


                                ******

                           Blink Talk Digest # 653

                                 Tee Shirts
                                Acb/nfb Feud
                         Re: Speaking Of Radio Shack
                            Windows access maybe
                          Re: windows access maybe
                          Re: nfb bbs censorship??
                           Re: NFB BBS Censorship
                 Flipper Moves Ahead of the Pack Once Again
                                   Re: Sfi
                                Modern canes


                                ******


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                              Bill McGarry (Moderator)
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------



Subject: Tee Shirts
From: Jeff.Dubois@p0.f266.n163.z1.fidonet.org (Jeff Dubois)
Organization: FidoNet node 1:163/266.0 - Vision, Ottawa ON


[This is from the Blink Talk Conference]

Hi Lois!

You were keeping track of the suggestions for a logo for tee shirts.

The idea of tee shirts I'm sure is appealing to alot of us, but this
idea is only as good as it gets followed through on.

Now of course I have a bias for the slogan I have submitted:

BLINKTALK - NETWORKING BEATS NOTWORKING"

so may I suggest that if no others are being submitted we fly with
this puppy?

That is, of course, if this is agreeable to the others here?

--
Uucp: ..!uunet!bunker!hcap!hnews!163!266.0!Jeff.Dubois
Internet: Jeff.Dubois@p0.f266.n163.z1.fidonet.org




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Subject: Acb/nfb Feud
From: Dan.Kysor@f730.n203.z1.fidonet.org (Dan Kysor)
Organization: FidoNet node 1:203/730 - QST, Sacramento CA


[This is from the Blink Talk Conference]

Mike Freeman said on 07-11-92  07:11 to Bill Koppelmann
something about Acb/nfb feud

 MF> I'd say that for little Jeniffer Driggers, NAC-accreditation made
 MF> quite  a bit of difference.  Jennifer Driggers was a multi-handicapped
 MF> girl who  was, I believe, nine years old and who attended the Florida
 MF> State School  for the Deaf and Blind for a while in 1987, I believe.
 MF> It may well be  that her placement was incorrect but this is no excuse
 MF> for what happened  to her.  She was subject to nearly continuous abuse
 MF> from fellow students  without serious intervention on the part of staff
 MF> and, in the end, was  killed via scalding in a shower which was not
 MF> being supervised at the  time by staff (Jennifer was retarded and
 MF> required supervision).

don't get me wrong, i certainly do not think nac is effective and many
organizations have dropped them but to say nac murdered this gal is
somewhat irresponsible.  you always have bad apples in an organization
whether nac or no nac is present.

 MF> Again, NAC did nothing when a NAC-accredited school, the Alabama
 MF> School  for the Deaf and Blind, was subject to an investigation which
 MF> revealed  fraud and malfeisance on the part of management.  If NAC did
 MF> nothing,  why bother to seek its approval?

mike, what is nfb's plan to replace nac?  who will replace them if you get
your way?

 MF> everytime you turn around, someone in the other organization is going
 MF> out of his/her way to criticize your every move.  In this case, it

are we a little paranoid here mike? now my statement to bill could have
been a perfect oppertunity for us to share some common ground but now you
get paranoid on me.
we all read the monitor and we all know nfb's conspiracy theory relative to
acb members and i shall state it here.  nfb members believe that the acb
blind are puppits of the american foundation for the blind and n a c just
because the afb has united with acb and nfb does not believe in cohilitions
and the monitor many many times has refered to the acb as an organization
of and for the corporations so i don't see how you can
put it all over to one side.  in my saying to bill that all the blind
suffer relating to the so called feud is really looking at both sides.
according to the nfb conspiracy theory of which many of your leaders
aspouse, the agencies for the blind have devided and conquired the
organized blind movement, acb and nfb by this very devided thread of which
we discuss now.
the ada has quoted the 80% unemployment figure.

 MF> Yes, we of the NFB *do* care.  We believe, however, that blindness
 MF> need  not be the limiting condition on how our members can perform.  We
 MF> have  compassion for those who, through lack of training and
 MF> opportunity,  haven't been able to succeed.  We do not, however,
 MF> believe that it is in  their best interest to hand them a sop and to
 MF> tell them that they should  be satisfied sitting in their rocking
 MF> chairs.  We believe that everyone  should have the opportunity to

this is an insulting statement to all acbers.  remember that half the nfb
was comprised of acb members who left your organization so what your
implying in the above statement is that your organization has the sole
pattent on independence and that some of us are satisfied sitting in our
rocking chairs.  its statments like that that we find insulting and its no
wonder that the snobbish "first class" biline of your philosophy offends
most of us.  folks are folks.  if you want to get the majority of the blind
interested in your organization, i suggest you tone down the rattical
confrontational nature of your philosophy.  sure there are times that this
is necessary but there are also times when its better to work together.
you can catch more flies with honey than vinigar.
btw, you implied to bill that those who critisize should take the time to
see what the organization is all about, well, i am a former member from
1971 to 1988.

 MF> that.  YOu  have fallen victim to the anti-Federation propaganda that
 MF> perennially  floats around.  Hence, my comments, as I believe that if,

in conclusion mike, i wonder why you didn't address many of these questions
to me while you were quoting me to bill?  dan.

 MF> P.S.:  Isn't it funny that no one objects to Democrats and Republicans
 MF> not agreeing  or the organizations of women against drunken driving --

we're not on the drunken driving echo or the democrats echo.  go bill
clinton!!!!!
winning the lottary is changing what it means to be blind!

... Catch the Blue Wave!

--
Uucp: ..!uunet!bunker!hcap!hnews!203!730!Dan.Kysor
Internet: Dan.Kysor@f730.n203.z1.fidonet.org




------



Subject: Re: Speaking Of Radio Shack
From: Phil.Scovell@p0.f810.n104.z1.fidonet.org (Phil Scovell)
Organization: FidoNet node 1:104/810.0 - Electronic Library, Denver CO


[This is from the Blink Talk Conference]

Steve,

It isn't just at meetings for the blind.  It's the same way at church
every Sunday.  Noon approaches and, as you say, every watch in the place
starts beeping and chiming away for several minutes.  I always make sure
my Radio Shack talking watch is set to the silent mode when I get to
church.  Though I must admit, I'm tempted to let my alarm ring out when
the preacher goes over the noon hour, haw.

If you're wondering how I know the time during church, my wife has a
Braille watch so I whisper my request if I'm wondering how much longer
it's gonna be.

Phil.

--
Uucp: ..!uunet!bunker!hcap!hnews!104!810.0!Phil.Scovell
Internet: Phil.Scovell@p0.f810.n104.z1.fidonet.org




------



Subject: Windows access maybe
From: Brad.Gillespie@f24.n3602.z1.fidonet.org (Brad Gillespie)
Organization: FidoNet node 1:3602/24 - ADAnet One (tm) Net, Pinson AL


[This is from the Blink Talk Conference]

EB>Why, pray tell, would a user need to be told which way he was moving the
EB>mouse  (it doesn't move by itself,

Good point, and my wife Debbie, being the curious sort she is,
brought this up to me later.  she went back and asked about this,
an it was explained to her that if you knew where a specific icon
was, (approximately), you might be able to zoom in on it more
accurately.  Also one must realize that these graphics boxes are
everywhere on teh screen.  Some are angled almost on a diagonal so
you might need some kind of indicator to help you zero in on the
thing.  Interesting to wwatch though.

===
 * SLMR 2.0 * All hope abandon, ye who enter messages here.
 * QNet3 * <ADANET> Canada Remote Systems - Toronto, Ontario - (416)798-4713

--
Uucp: ..!uunet!bunker!hcap!hnews!3602!24!Brad.Gillespie
Internet: Brad.Gillespie@f24.n3602.z1.fidonet.org




------



Subject: Re: windows access maybe
From: Brad.Gillespie@f24.n3602.z1.fidonet.org (Brad Gillespie)
Organization: FidoNet node 1:3602/24 - ADAnet One (tm) Net, Pinson AL


[This is from the Blink Talk Conference]

KF>Was it necessary to use the mouse to move around the screen?

No, you used a combination of keys to activate a click zone.  You
could either have the speech simply identify which icon you were
on, such as program manager, or any other window you were moving
by.  this information would either be spoken to you if you moved
the mouse and held the shift key simultaneously; (I think it was
the shift), or you could move around via the keyboard.  When you
found what you were after, you would enter that window I belive by
pressing enter.

My wife Debbie recorded the seminar and if anyone wants a copy
leave me the pertenant info and I'll get one out to you.  I should
say she recorded the first seminar, it was run 3 times with
basically the same information included, but depending on the
audience each one was slightly different because of the many levels
of understanding of the windows environment.

KF>How did the system handle Icons it couldn't recognize?

Because it was a demo there were no icons that it didn't
recognize.  I would imagine though, judging by the other
Synthavoice products that are currently available you could set up
a monitor area to watch for something specific, because they did
mention that all of the features now found in their other products
such as macros, the alarm and appointment scheduler and the popup
notepad, could be utilized within windowbridge.

it works very much like a glorified hard disk menu program, for
those who are not familiar with how windows works, and you see all
of your programs and some other windows related things on the
screen when you boot up, rather than the familiar dos prompt.  When
you wish to execute a command you move to it, and click on it,
rather than typing in dos commands and soforth by hand.  that is
about the extent of my knowledge of windows, though I have watched
my brother using it, and he knows literally ziltch about
computers.  that is what makes it so popular as one can use the
computer effectively without really understanding how it works.
the thing that's wrong with that though is if you do run in to
trouble you haven't a clue what to do about it.

I should add that there is a help facility available in windows, as
well as windowbridge help available at the push of a key.  I can't
honestly remember if it is context sensitive or not but with the
artificial inteligence of the programs of today it most likely is.

Hope this info helps, and that I didn't stray off topic of your
questions too much.

===
 * SLMR 2.0 * I've lost my mind, anyone seen it?
 * QNet3 * <ADANET> Canada Remote Systems - Toronto, Ontario - (416)798-4713

--
Uucp: ..!uunet!bunker!hcap!hnews!3602!24!Brad.Gillespie
Internet: Brad.Gillespie@f24.n3602.z1.fidonet.org




------



Subject: Re: nfb bbs censorship??
From: Tandy.Way@f6.n377.z1.fidonet.org (Tandy Way)
Organization: FidoNet node 1:377/6 - T.A.B.B., Tampa Fl


[This is from the Blink Talk Conference]

>     Hi Steve,  Good heavens!  Did Kenneth Jernigan really refuse
>     to run your ad because you're not in NFB?  My reaction isn't
>     one of skepticism, it's just--that's ridiculous!  How could it
>     matter about one's affiliation when selling a notebook, or a
>     tutorial--or anything?

this is typical of jernigan steve.  although I have had for sale
items in the monitor before and I was never questioned about it I
have heard this story of steve bauer's experience happening with
other people before.  Jernigan is really hung up on himself and his
self importance. he has the ego the size of new york city but that
is the way the child jernigan acts. as for his groupees who follow
him, they don't have much of a life anyway so their big thing is
once a year go to the convention and yell and scream praise oh lord
jernigan etc. tandy I fought the law and the law won.

=== Via Silver Xpress V3.00B09

--
Uucp: ..!uunet!bunker!hcap!hnews!377!6!Tandy.Way
Internet: Tandy.Way@f6.n377.z1.fidonet.org




------



Subject: Re: NFB BBS Censorship
From: Keith.Bucher@p0.f89.n129.z1.fidonet.org (Keith Bucher)
Organization: FidoNet node 1:129/89.0 - BlinkLink, Pittsburgh PA


[This is from the Blink Talk Conference]

Hello Tim, Wow!  You certainly created quite a controversy over
on Blindtalk, Not to be confused with Blinktalk, ha ha.  Anyway,
I'm thoroughly enjoying it!  But I want to possibly shine still
another light on this whole matter.  Maybe this proves even more
the fact that Jernigan owns the NFB, controls the NFB, rules the
NFB, and therefore, it's his organization as well as his bbs.
David may have had no choice.  Unfortunately, or fortunately,
however you see it, or hear it, I can't produce his voice
here-anyone out there have a Jernigan synthesizer?  But maybe he
said something like, "Now DAvid, you remove that article
immediately, or it's your head."  "Your head," meaning his job of
course.  I don't personally have any axis to grind with NFB, in
fact I like their board, but Mr. Chuck Hallenbeck hit the nail on
the head last year when he was talking about Kenny Jernigan and
NfB and said something about that he could almost hear minds
closing.  Let me put it another way.  In the past 20 years or so,
has anything ever passed at an NFB national convention which
Kenny Jernigan opposed?  And by the same token, has anything at
an NFB national convention ever been voted down which Kenny
supported?  Maybe it has, and maybe that was a three foot snow
drift I fell in to while in Phoenix this summer, but it's not
likely.  But there is in fact a sad irony here.  Most of NFB
members just like most ACB members are good, nice, and generous
people, I feel certain.  But why any one person should rule any
organization as Kenny does is beyond my comprehension.  I'll
rephrase that.  Why in god's name do they stand for it!  And
another thing.  It's interesting to me, while there are indeed
NFB members on Blinktalk, to my knowledge, there doesn't seem to
be any of those members who are very high up, or who have a lot
of influence in the federation.  Does Kenny censor them as well?
And why all this Doctor stuff anyway?  That's
another thing I can't quite swallow.  Kenny and I are both flesh
and blood, and when our time is up here on this old earth, more
than likely, the soil we return back too will treat us both as
equals.  And by the way Tim, any more articles to upload?

--
Uucp: ..!uunet!bunker!hcap!hnews!129!89.0!Keith.Bucher
Internet: Keith.Bucher@p0.f89.n129.z1.fidonet.org




------



Subject: Flipper Moves Ahead of the Pack Once Again
From: Keith.Bucher@p0.f89.n129.z1.fidonet.org (Keith Bucher)
Organization: FidoNet node 1:129/89.0 - BlinkLink, Pittsburgh PA


[This is from the Blink Talk Conference]

Hello everyone,  I don't believe many will disagree with me when
I say that just a few years ago Flipper led the pack in the
Screen REader industry.  Well, it just may do so once again!
Flipper is being rewritten from the ground up and from what I can
learn, will soon be available.  Those of us who are registered
users will be notified.  I for one, am very excited about this
new release, because I believe Flipper with this release which is
version 4.0, will do as much, and probably more than any other
screen reader on the
market today for MS-DOS.  For those of us have used Flipper
already know how fast it is, how powerful it is, and how easy it
is to use.  Some of the new features in Flipper 4.0 include the
ability to edit any of Flipper's messages, including key names
and symbol names, being able to attach any action or a sequence
of actions to any key, any of ten reaction zones, or cursor
changes.  In version 4.0 almost anything that Flipper does
can be changed to do just what you want.  Flipper can also react
to pop up windows, cursor movements and changes, and other
events.  Support for braille devices has been expanded, and not
only will Flipper be faster than older versions, but it will not
take up any more memory, to spite these and other new features.
There will be 32 windows, and all of them have all the special
features, such as being able to read highlighted text only,
output to braille, along with additional modes such as reading
all symbols.  I might mention that even today, there is a
screen reader on the market which still cannot read its logo.
Flipper has always been able to read the extended ASCII character
set, as well as being able to read enhancements automatically
without having to search for them.  Only Flipper users can
appreciate the cursor beeps and spell mode.  Not to mention the
ability to not to have to be actually sitting on a word when
spelling or saying it.  You always know exactly where you are.
For instance, did I space after writing his name?  Or did I
space once or twice, or possibly three times?  Flipper lets you
know this without having to move your cursor keys or without
having to take your hands off the home row.  With all the SI,
CPU, and other diagnostic tests I have performed, Flipper version 2.74
is not only faster than any other version of Flipper but is
faster than any other screen reading program.  And if this
version is much faster than 2.74, it won't slow my computer down
at all.  Steve Smith has put a lot of time and work in this
version, and if it's anything like the information I have,
someone's got a lot of catching up to do. It'll be just like it
was a couple years ago.  And you know, although some programs
have passed Flipper in some areas, none have passed it in all
areas.  And with version 4.0 Flipper will take the lead once
again, thereby setting a standard for others to follow.

--
Uucp: ..!uunet!bunker!hcap!hnews!129!89.0!Keith.Bucher
Internet: Keith.Bucher@p0.f89.n129.z1.fidonet.org




------



Subject: Re: Sfi
From: Jeff.Bishop@f2.n300.z1.fidonet.org (Jeff Bishop)
Organization: FidoNet node 1:300/2 - Old Pueblo BBS, Tucson Az


[This is from the Blink Talk Conference]

Hello,

 -=> Quoting Tandy Way to Jeff Bishop <=-

 TW> jeff I have a question about the sfi which I think is critical to its
 TW> future  development. are you intending to make the sfi a part of the
 TW> program on an  individual basis for example command line activated or
 TW> have the programer  have an option in his setup menu for it? or are you
 TW> planning to make it like  shez does where you must put a set statement
 TW> in your autoexec.bat? can you  convince the author of shez to abandon
 TW> that method and njust let it be  command line driven or better yet just
 TW> ask one or two questions in the shez  configuration program. I feel
 TW> cluttering up your autoexec.bat with a bunch of  set statements is not
 TW> going to work. you are going to run out ofenvirenment  space if you
 TW> elect to do it the way that shez does it.

 Yes, just like {COMMO}, the prefered method is to either specify a
 command-line option, or better yet, have a setup option in the product
 itself.  I asked the SHEZ author to make it part of the configuration
 program options, and he will be doning that in the future.  Environment
 variables are fine for those of us that no how to expand our
 environments, but you are correct.  KISS methods are best.

I concated Buttonware this afternoon.  They are very excited to get more
information in regards to the BSFI standard.  I am sending Jim Button a
letter explaining what is going on and will be getting to speak with
some development staff after Jim looks over the FAX I will send him.  He
is very excited about the idea of adding capabilities for the blind
within his products.  Great going from another great shareware author.

Jeff Bishop

... Catch the Blue Wave!

--
Uucp: ..!uunet!bunker!hcap!hnews!300!2!Jeff.Bishop
Internet: Jeff.Bishop@f2.n300.z1.fidonet.org




------



Subject: Modern canes
From: Walter.Siren@p18.f5.n396.z1.fidonet.org (Walter Siren)
Organization: FidoNet node 1:396/5.18 - Pontchippi, New Orleans LA


[This is from the Blink Talk Conference]

 LM> After years, I am in the market for a portable cane.  The antiquated
 LM> beast from 1969 has bitten the dust.  I would appreciate suggestions from
 LM> anyone on the best portable canes made nowadays and where to order them.

Lee, I am using a telescoping cane which is very light.  It is made
out of pcp pipe, and is made by a walter Crandell in CAlifornia.
They cost $15, and I am very happy with it.  I think that they will
break if someone trips over them, but I have never had one to break
yet.  I bought a couple of extra ones just in case, but I have
never had to use one of them yet.  They will come in any length you
want.  Since he custom makes them, you specify the length you
wish.  Here is his address if you are interested.

Mr. Walter Crandell
7757  Lakeville Hwy.
Petaluma, CA 94954
I hope this helps.

Walter

--
Uucp: ..!uunet!bunker!hcap!hnews!396!5.18!Walter.Siren
Internet: Walter.Siren@p18.f5.n396.z1.fidonet.org




------






                                ******

                  End of Issue # 2806 of the Handicap Digest

                                ******
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU