HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: drand@spinner.osf.org (Douglas S. Rand)
Subject: Re: Square-D electrical panel
Organization: Open Software Foundation
Date: 5 Oct 92 10:57:12

In article <1ai3duINNfk1@usenet.INS.CWRU.Edu> au363@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Ken Sussmann) writes:

   In a previous article, edwards@world.std.com (Jonathan Edwards) says:

   >Following advice here and elsewhere, I have asked the electrician on my
   >new house construction to use a Square-D power panel instead of the cheapo
   >GE unit the builder usually uses. And also to use all copper wire (they would
   >use aluminium for the main feed and oven). The price for both of these
   >upgrades is $960! Is this a reasonable price, and is it worth it???
   >-- 
   >Jonathan Edwards				edwards@intranet.com
   >IntraNet, Inc					617-527-7020
   >

   I recently upgraded my service from 100 Amps to 200 Amps. The Square-D
   panel (40 spaces) was about $180. 2/0 copper cable (200 amp capacity)
   was $1.35/foot. I ran mine in conduit. For an upgrade, $960 seems way
   out of line unless you have extremely long runs of wire. I should also
   note that breakers are about $6 for single pole and $12 for double pole.

The materials are on the order of $350.  The labor is a full day
for two men.  There is also,  I believe, a permit involved.  That
accounts for about $700 ($40/hr labor and a 10 hr day).  It wouldn't
be hard to get to $960.  

I did pay about $750 for 100 Amp service from an old 60 Amp fusebox.
I didn't find this out of line with other quoted prices.  Mine included
a new meter box and a mast for the service entrance.  Note also that
labor costs vary around the country.  So don't be too quick to judge.



--

----------------------------------------------------------------------
Douglas S. Rand <drand@osf.org>		OSF/Motif Dev.
Snail:         11 Cambridge Center,  Cambridge,  MA  02142
Disclaimer:    I don't know if OSF agrees with me... let's vote on it.
Amateur Radio: KC1KJ
----------------------------------------------------------------------
From: schaefer@CISCO.COM (Carl Schaefer)
Newsgroups: misc.consumers.house
Subject: removing scratches from glass table
Date: 29 Sep 92 02:42:40 GMT

I have a clear glass dining room table that recently developed a
rather unsightly 2" scratch in the top.  Are there any ways to remove
scratches from glass or reduce their visibility?

Please copy me at schaefer@cisco.com on any posted reponses, as I'm
not always able to keep up with this group.
thanks,
Carl
Newsgroups: misc.consumers.house
From: heon@cbnewsg.cb.att.com (garry.j.heon)
Subject: Re: Central air ducts
Keywords: hideout, not-dead, UFO, lepers
Organization: AT&T
Distribution: usa
Date: Tue, 6 Oct 1992 22:24:09 GMT

In article <4026@cvbnetPrime.COM>, epresley@brazilian.leper.colony writes:
> 
> I have large (12" diameter) central air ducts for the central AC in
> my house.  I saw on This Old House that they used really small 
> unobtrusive central air outlets in the house-next-to-the-church 
> episode.  My current ducts are 12" tubular and take up lot's of space 
> in the 2nd floor eve's that I would like to expand into someday.
> 
> Did they use a special central air system to push the air 
> through these small ducts?

My house is extremely noisy when the heat or AC turns on.  The previous
owner put on a 1000 sq/ft addition and connected to the existing
duct work in the house (it's a ranch so the runs are long).  Then he
upgraded the furnace and AC units.  Now there's soo much air going
through these 12"x12" ducts that they whistle.  It's so bad that I'm
about ready to rip out the old ducts and replace it with the proper
size, insulated on the inside of course.  Can't wait till spring so I can
get it done :-)  Hopefully with the lager ducts and the insulation they'll
be quiet. 
You said your ducts are tubular, are they rigid or that flex stuff.  The
flex will kill your air flow if you use ot for long runs.  So I wouldn't
recommend it.


******************************************
* MY OPINIONS.............AT&T's NETWORK *
*                                        *
* Garry Heon                     AT&T    *
* heon@cbnewsg.att.com       Holmdel, NJ *
******************************************
From: ostroff@Oswego.EDU (Boyd Ostroff)
Newsgroups: misc.consumers.house
Subject: Re: Hair-line Cracks in Furnace...
Date: 30 Sep 92 13:51:52 GMT
Reply-To: ostroff@oswego.Oswego.EDU (Boyd Ostroff)
Organization: Instructional Computing Center, SUNY at Oswego, Oswego, NY

In article <13020@sets-1> davek@sets-1 (Dave Kennedy) writes:

>The furnace is about 35 years old, and made by Beach. 
>
>We were planning to replace the furnace next year, and I'd like to get
>one more year out of it before we replace it.

Food for thought: a 35 year old oil furnace is going to be very inefficient.
If you borrow the money and replace it now it's very possible that the
energy savings will be greater than the interest on the loan.

>A new oil furnace is 
>about $1800 installed around here (no gas in the area). 

You should be able to get a propane tank if you want to go the gas route.
The advantage here is that you can buy gas furnaces with over 90%
efficiency for about the same price you quote.  Oil furnaces that efficient
are rare, more expensive and less reliable.  Of course you'll have to
do the arithmetic to compare fuel prices vs efficiency.  I replaced my
old oil furnace with propane a year ago and am very happy.

.............................................................................
....Boyd Ostroff / Technical Director / SUNY Oswego Department of Theatre....
...............Voice: (315) 341-2987 /  Fax: (315) 341-3394..................
..............ostroff@oswego.oswego.edu / ostroff@cboard.UUCP................
Newsgroups: misc.consumers.house
From: smjeff@lerc05.lerc.nasa.gov (Jeff Miller)
Subject: Re: ceiling fans:  ceiling hugger or down-rod?
Organization: NASA Lewis Research Center, Cleveland Ohio
Distribution: na
Date: Tue, 29 Sep 1992 14:00:10 GMT

In article <1992Sep24.010259.4051@phx.mcd.mot.com> fredch@phx.mcd.mot.com (Fred Christiansen) writes:
>Contemplating ceiling fans in rooms with standard 8' ceilings.
>I like the appearance of the ceiling huggers, but was wondering
>if down-rods do a better job of stirring up the air.  If so,
>I'll consider 'em; if not, I'll stick with my first choice.
>Anyone know?  Thx.
>-- 

You might want to figure out how tall your tallest house guests are.
Some of the down-rods are pretty long.

-- 
Jeffrey H. Miller     smjeff@lerc05.lerc.nasa.gov
Sverdrup Technology, NASA Lewis Research Center Group, Cleveland, Ohio

favorite book title: Attack of the Deranged Mutant Killer Monster Snow Goons

Newsgroups: misc.consumers.house
From: edwards@world.std.com (Jonathan Edwards)
Subject: Re: Square-D electrical panel
Organization: IntraNet, Inc.
Date: Fri, 2 Oct 1992 19:07:29 GMT

In article <1992Oct2.152040.29100@porthos.cc.bellcore.com> patter@dasher.uucp (24224-guthrie) writes:
>In my opinion, it's not worth it. I've never known anyone to have problems
>with an aluminum service cable; in fact, I've never known anyone to use
>anything else in new services.
>
>That being the case, I wouldn't hesitate to use it for a stove line in
>my own home.
>
>Finally, I have a GE panel myself and like it fairly well. I've lived in
>houses that had Square-D panels, but I really can't compare them. I mean,
>if neither ever breaks, how do they compare? Having installed both, I
>can tell you that Square-D panel boxes are bigger for a given main breaker
>size and consequently more difficult to install.
>
I have been told that aluminum wire needs to be retightened every few years,
otherwise oxide buildup can lead to bad connections and a fire hazard.
Has this problem been eliminated with new hardware?

The electrician says he put in a SquareD for his own house. That's the kind
of testimonial that I pay attention to. But the only concrete advantage he
could explain to me was the breakers are more accurate and reliable in their
trip currents.

-- 
Jonathan Edwards				edwards@intranet.com
IntraNet, Inc					617-527-7020
Newsgroups: misc.consumers.house
From: horwath@rtsg.mot.com (George Horwath)
Subject: Re: Grainger (was Re: The programmable thermostat jungle)
Organization: Motorola Inc., Cellular Infrastructure Group
Distribution: na
Date: Fri, 2 Oct 1992 13:19:39 GMT

al@qiclab.scn.rain.com (Alan Peterman) writes:

>BTW - EVERYONE should have one of these books - it's free, 2700 pages
>of stuff for everything mechanical or electrical, many pages of general
>information, and theirprices are somewhat discounted from list.  There's

I agree, plus its a great source for commercial/industrial grade
equipment, if you've had enough of the poor durability of some
of the wares sold at home owner stores. Plus, Grainger takes
credit cards!!

-George

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
"It is not the employer who pays the        |     Motorola
 wages - he only handles the money.         | I speak for myself,
 It is the customer who pays the wages."    |   not my employer
                             - Henry Ford   | horwath@rtsg.mot.com
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------

Newsgroups: misc.consumers.house,misc.invest.real-estate
From: shawn@grok90.ColumbiaSC.NCR.COM (Shawn Shealy)
Subject: reducing the agents fees
Organization: NCR Corp., Columbia SC
Distribution: usa
Date: Wed, 30 Sep 92 12:25:28 GMT

I have heard that sometimes the real estate agents involved in the
sale/purchase of a house are willing to accept reduced fees (i.e.
less than their 3% of list or whatever) to have the transaction
complete.  Is this true?  How typical is it?  What are the regulations
governing the agents' fees?  How would one negotiate this reduction
with his/her agent effectively?

I will soon be looking to buy my first house.

Also, is their a FAQ on this group?

Thanks in advance!
-shawn   :-)
Newsgroups: misc.consumers.house
Subject: Re: What's This Gook In The Drain Pipe Under My Sink?
From: gary@cdthq.UUCP (Gary Heston)
Date: Fri, 25 Sep 92 19:34:07 CDT
Organization: Garys' Home for Obsolete Computers

sbrenner@cbnewsb.cb.att.com (scott.d.brenner) writes:
 [ gunk in bathroom sink drain ]
> OK, here are my questions (finally):
> 
> 1. What is this stuff, and what caused it?  My wife thinks it may be
> some kind of precipitate from the stuff she uses to clean the sink.
> I think there's too much of it for that explanation.

Oh, there's some of that in there, along with collected saliva,
skin oil, soap, toothpase scum, and a little of the crud you (and
the previous owners) have been washing off your hands all these
years. It's normal for there to be some collection, but it shouldn't
fill 1/3 of the pipe.

> 2. What can I do to prevent a build-up of this gook in the future?

Run lots of hot water through the sink. Occasional treatments with
Draino, Liquid Plumber, or some of that enzymatic stuff Home Depot
is selling would probably help.

> 3. Before I hook up the new trap and elbow (permanantly gluing the
> elbow to the outgoing pipe), should I attempt to clean out the pipe
> and, if so, what's the best way?  Or can I just wait until everything
> is hooked up again and pour several gallons of Liquid Plumber down
> the drain (it'll be all PVC or some other kind of plastic now)?

DON'T permanently glue that pipe on! Install a fitting, so it can
be dismantled in the future if necessary. 

Personally, I'd get a small blade-style snake and clean as much of
the gunk as possible out of the drain, to avoid having the LP loosen
a batch of it after assembly and clog things further down.

Gary Heston, at home....
gary@cdthq.uucp

From: steed@hpcc01.corp.hp.com (Gary Steed)
Date: Thu, 1 Oct 1992 17:44:23 GMT
Subject: Water Re-circulators (was IN-LINE WATER HEATERS)
Organization: Corporate Computing & Services
Newsgroups: misc.consumers.house

I thought that I would bring this up as a different item.

goddard+@cs.cmu.edu (Nigel Goddard) writes;

>One should also consider loss in the delivery pipes.  Every morning
>when I get up, first thing I do is turn on the hot water in the sink.
>About three minutes later, when the water coming out the tap is finally
>hot, I turn on the shower.

This is one reason that I was considering an on-demand water heater
in the new bathroom of our remodel project. The new bathroom is on the
opposite end of the house, and it takes a while for the hot water to
get to the 'old' bathroom in the middle of the house so I know it would
take longer.

It was suggested by a few contractors that we might consider a re-
circulator instead. It would, as I understand, return the cold water back
to the water heater until it sensed hot water and then pass it through.

Does any one have experience with these units, and a better explanation
of how it works?

Thanks

------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Gary Steed    				Hewlett-Packard Co.  
                                        CC&S Network Engineering
Unix:   steed@hpcc26.corp.hp.com        Palo Alto, CA. 

From: sheneman@hpdmd48.boi.hp.com (Jerry Sheneman)
Date: Mon, 28 Sep 1992 00:42:35 GMT
Subject: BOISE, IDAHO:  House For Sale!
Organization: Hewlett Packard - Boise, ID
Newsgroups: misc.consumers.house

House for sale in Meridian, Idaho (8 miles from Boise).
Great location.

                    Well maintained throughout
                    1708 square feet
                    4 bedrooms
                    2 baths
                    Oak woodwork throughout
                    Corner lot in popular subdivision
                    Fenced yard (6' cedar)
                    Fully landscaped
                    Underground automatic sprinlers
                    Large patio (20' x 20')
                    Newly painted interior
                    Vaulted ceilings
                    Central air conditioning
                    Gas forced air furnace
                    Gas fireplace
                    Gas water heater
                    Water softener
                    Formal living room
                    Family room
                    2 car garage
                    Close to schools K-12 (easy walking distance)
                    Breakfast bar
                    Walk in closet in master bedroom
                    Skylight in guest bath
                    French patio doors


                    Assumable FHA Loan

                    PRICE: $99,200

This is truly a great house.  I am selling it because I am
transferring out of state.  If I was staying in the Boise area I
would definetly keep it!

If you are interested please E-mail me.  Thanks!
Newsgroups: misc.consumers.house
From: patter@dasher.uucp (24224-guthrie)
Subject: Re: Styrofoam? Paper? Or Wood?
Organization: Bellcore, Livingston, NJ
Date: Mon, 5 Oct 92 15:55:38 GMT

In article <1992Oct3.152719.12112@engage.pko.dec.com> moroney@ramblr.enet.dec.com writes:

>The foil isn't a vapor barrier, its purpose is to reflect radiant heat.  Normal
>insulation stops conductive heat, but does little or nothing to stop radiant
>heat.  A vapor barrier on the outside insulation would be a bad thing since
>it would tend to trap water vapor and lead to rot.

You learn something new every day. The stuff must not be real foil then?
A solid foil will serve as a vapor barrier whether you like it or not.
Any idea what it's made of?

>As to "health hazard vapors" I think you're thinking of UFFI foam insulation
>which is outlawed for new construction.

Nope, I was just repeating what I heard. Actually what I was thinking of
was some insulation board matching this description which I saw at Home
Depot a few weeks ago. There's a warning printed on the board that 1/2"
sheet rock or thicker must be used to cover this stuff if it's used in
the house interior. I had assumed that this was because of the outgassing
I'd heard about, but it could be for fire protection, I suppose.

One other piece of data I forgot to mention. The white polystyrene
panels are frequently used as the basis for imitation stucco. A
fiberglass cloth net is glued to the panels and some sort of epoxy/sand
mix is plastered over that. I've only seen it done twice. In the one
frame house I saw done this way, there was a layer of conventional
sheathing under the foam panels. The other building was concrete block.

patter@dasher.cc.bellcore.com
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
                    |        Murphy's Laws of Combat
                    | . Professional soldiers are predictable, but the
George Patterson -  |    world is full of amateurs.
                    | . The easy way is always mined.
                    |
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Newsgroups: misc.consumers.house
From: eliot@chutney.rtp.dg.com (Topher Eliot)
Subject: Re: Redoing a foundation: Questions
Date: Mon, 28 Sep 92 16:13:32 GMT
Reply-To: eliot@dg-rtp.dg.com
Organization: Data General Corporation, Research Triangle Park, NC

I've lost track of the original posting on this subject, so I'll post my
reply.  In the latest issue of Fine Homebuilding there's a little write-up
on how to replace a rotten sill-on-grade foundation (how to brace the house
while digging underneath, etc.)  This might help in dealing with an unsupported
slab.  But I have my doubts about removing support from the edge of a slab
foundation; what's to keep that outer 6" (which is supporting the outside
wall, which is supporting ...) from just snapping off while you try to dig
out space for a foundation under it?  It seems like a bad scene to me.

-- 
Topher Eliot             Data General DG/UX Systems Administration Development
(919) 248-6371      eliot@dg-rtp.dg.com       {backbone}!mcnc!rti!dg-rtp!eliot
Obviously, I speak for myself, not for DG.
misc.consumers.house archivist.  Send mail to house-archive@dg-rtp.dg.com
"I opened an STR on myself and I had to reject it."  -- Paul McGrath
Organization: The American University - University Computing Center
Date: Sat, 26 Sep 1992 12:16:29 EDT
From: Joni Snyder <JSNYDER@auvm.american.edu>
Newsgroups: misc.consumers.house
Subject: Re: How do you remove urine smells from carpet?
Distribution: na

In article <1992Sep22.192148.14809@electro.electro.com>,
carlo@electro.electro.com (Carlo Sgro) says:
>
><Please note Followup-To misc.consumers.house>
>
>Can anyone recommend a good, proven way to remove the smell of baby and cat
>urine and spilled milk from carpet?  The smells have built up over the past
>few
>weeks or months and are most intense when the humidity is high and windows are
>closed.  We hesitate to replace the carpet at this point since the baby is
>still being toilet-trained.  Does anyone have any recommendations?

I once had a condo that had a cat urine odor (at least I think it
was from a cat).  The odor was most intense in the summer when it
was humid.  I tried several carpet deodorizers, but none worked.
I tried straight baking soda left on overnight and it did the
trick.  It was easy and cheap.  Hope this helps.

Joni Snyder
>
>--
>Carlo Sgro  is  carlo@electro.com            "... and I think that it is
>and also watcgl.waterloo.edu!electro!carlo    extremely unlikely that she was
>System Administrator, Electrohome Ltd.        kidnapped by Alien Elvis
>Kitchener, ON, (519)744-7111 x 7209           Impersonators ..."
From: masticol@cadenza.rutgers.edu (Steve Masticola)
Newsgroups: misc.consumers.house
Subject: Re: Broken Thermometers
Date: 30 Sep 92 23:30:18 GMT
Organization: Rutgers Univ., New Brunswick, N.J.

clewis@ferret.ocunix.on.ca (Chris Lewis) writes:

>Metallic mercury is relatively innocuous and evaporates pretty slowly.
>On the other hand (or either hand ;-) some mercury compounds are extremely
>toxic/hazardous.  Don't know about sulphides/sulphates, so I'd hesitate to
>do this - do you have a reference for this?.

Not formally; I once blew up a mercury manometer in high school
chemistry class, and this is what the chem teacher told me to do.
(Mistakenly put 30 psi nitrogen in one end; made a real nice mercury
fountain for a second or so.) Some of it landed on a (fortunately
cold!) stove, so I had to do a THOROUGH job cleaning it. So I did the
bit with the flowers of sulfur, and also spent a week chasing the
drops around with a vacuum-pump gadget I made for the purpose.

For what it's worth, mercuric sulfate is cinnabar, the mineral from
which mercury is mined. (Probably someone's going to correct that to
"sulfide".)

- Steve (masticol@cs.rutgers.edu).
Newsgroups: misc.consumers.house
From: doshay@ursa.arc.nasa.gov (David Doshay)
Subject: Re: Taking off old plaster
Organization: NASA-Ames Biocomputation Center
Date: Thu, 1 Oct 1992 00:00:32 GMT

In article <1992Sep30.145105.3686@wvnvms.wvnet.edu>, un026217@wvnvms.wvnet.edu writes:
|> Hi,
|> 
|> Any tips on how to take off old plaster?
|> 

We have used a hammer to get a hole started and a hammer and a flat
pry-bar to continue.

David		doshay@soma.arc.nasa.gov

The thought police insist I tell you:
my thoughts, not NASA's
Newsgroups: misc.consumers.house,rec.woodworking
From: games@max.u.washington.edu
Subject: Re: Attaching Stud Wall to Concrete
Organization: 
Date: Wed, 30 Sep 1992 22:18:44 GMT

In article <92269.131309DMEJJ@CUNYVM.BITNET>, DMEJJ@CUNYVM.BITNET writes:
> 
> I was wondering if anyone can give me some advice on this topic.  I am paneling
> my basement soon.  The walls and floor are concrete.  The walls are a bit
> uneven (a bit wavy).  What I plan on doing is to put up a stud wall so I can
> attach the paneling to an even wall.  This is where I need some advice.
> I would like to attach the wall to the floor in the easiest way.  The two
> ways that I have in mind are.
>      1)Using an impact nailer.  It shoots a nail through the wood of the wall,
> with a 22.cal load.
>      2)Using screws designed for driving into concrete.  I'm not sure of
> what they are called.  You first drill a hole through the wood and into
> the concrete, then driving a screw that looks like a drywall screw, but with
> wider threads.
> Has anyone used either of these methods?  And if so, which is better?
> Thank you.
> Daniel
> -------

Actually there is a third way, and it is the best of all of them
(I hate powder actuated fasteners, and I havent seen any that shoot through
2x4, and THEN on into the wall.)

Use a concrete drill, and drill through the stud, and into the wall, and then
sink an anchor into the wall.  RAWL, and HILTI, and REDHEAD, as well as STAR
all make bolt type anchors.  You stick them in the hole, and give them a whack
with a mallet, and then you thread on a nut (sometimes you just hit the nut),
and a washer, and tighten the stud down.  You don't want the stud to bend 
close to the wall (cause it's uneven)?, just shim it and drill through the
stud and the shim.

BTW, I have a hilti drill for sale that will do this job nicely.

			John Stevens-Schlick
			(206) 935-4384