HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: "Michael Smith" <p00004@psilink.com>
Subject: Re: roads & inconsiderate motorists
Organization: Performance Systems Int'l
Date: Mon, 5 Oct 1992 15:52:05 GMT
X-Mailer: PSILink (3.2)

>DATE:   Fri, 2 Oct 1992 17:44:57 GMT
>FROM:   Thomas H. Kunich <tomk@netcom.com>
>Do you understand the idea of criminal law? Or do you just believe that
>none of this applies to you?
>

I think the *idea* is reasonably clear to all of us. The question is, 
what's the *reality*? My own experience, as I've mentioned before, is 
not encouraging. If others have more encouraging stories to tell, I'd 
truly like to hear them. Particularly if there are specific lessons to 
be learned about what to do to make "the system work." 

I'm beginning to get the impression that there aren't many encouraging 
stories to tell, since this is the third time I've asked and haven't 
heard any yet. But I'm still hoping.

--Michael Smith
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles
From: aberigan@nde.unl.edu (A. Berigan)
Subject: Re: roads & inconsiderate motorists
Organization: Ord High School, Ord, NE
Date: Sat, 3 Oct 1992 01:28:04 GMT

weird@cbnewsf.cb.att.com (john.t.erhardt) writes:
>andre@avalanche.Canada.Sun.Com writes:

::

>This sounds exactly like the idiot who honked at me yesterday to use the bike
>path.  Someone who if i catch them at the next stop i get to play car polo
>with my bike pump.  Believe me they wouldn't think of getting their beautiful
>car scratched.

Sometimes I feel like mounting a couple of paintball guns to my bike
frame, perhaps cover up their rear licence plate with them.

But this is just how I feel sometimes.  I don't recommend it as it may
be illegal.

--     o
      /\_         (10/3)  1/      (11/3)
  ---P\--~\_    WF      + /(10-WF)
__P")=/-'_(`)__
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~aberigan@nde.unl.edu (Greg Berigan)
From: brockr@muvaxa.rferl.org (Train, Learn, Climb, Ride)
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles
Subject: New Vitus Road bike, again
Date: 6 Oct 92 16:26:00 GMT
Organization: Radio Free Europe
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41


  Hi all,

  Quick question on my new Vitus bike.  As stated, I believe, I've equipped
it with Campi Chorus gruppo including Chorus breaks.  Now, I've tried
EVERYTHING to try and center the breakshoes around the rims but, no chance.
One shoe is at a different distance than the other.  I mean, the breaks work 
like a charm, although I find them a bit spongier than Shimano breaks, 
but I really like their action and feel.  It just bothers me a bit to know 
that the pads aren't centered.  Is this "normal" for Chorus, or Campi in 
general?  
Xref: sparky rec.bicycles:22946 rec.bicycles.misc:747
From: aberigan@nde.unl.edu (A. Berigan)
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles,rec.bicycles.misc
Subject: Re: damage to trails - cause found!
Date: 4 Oct 92 03:34:09 GMT
Article-I.D.: unlinfo.1992Oct4.033409.6583
Followup-To: rec.bicycles.misc
Organization: Ord High School, Ord, NE

dinsmm@marcus.its.rpi.edu (Michael Dinsmore) writes:

>While riding my brand new mtn bike, i found out
>what causes damage to the trails.  No, it isn't
>mountain bikes...

My brother blames the kids riding dirt bikes while the dirt path is
still wet from the rain two days ago.  (Wooded path.)

>After I came around a bend I saw a guy and a gal
>going at it like bunnies!  Right on the trail!
>Hmmm.....What does IMBA say about yielding to 
>that???

Sorry, I can't come up with a snappy response to that.

>   /  |\/  |\  Michael Dinsmore
>  /   |/   ||  dinsmm@rpi.edu
> / /|   /| ||  Michael_Dinsmore@MTS.RPI.EDU

--     o
      /\_         (10/3)  1/      (11/3)
  ---P\--~\_    WF      + /(10-WF)
__P")=/-'_(`)__
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~aberigan@nde.unl.edu (Greg Berigan)
From: sfleming@cs.hw.ac.uk (Stewart T Fleming)
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles
Subject: Re: Tire size and riding
Date: 3 Oct 92 11:00:52 GMT
Reply-To: sfleming@cs.hw.ac.uk
Organization: Dept. Of Computing and Electrical Engineering, Heriot-Watt University, Edinburgh


I switched recently from a pair of old Michelin Sports (27x1.25")
to a pair of Michelin Hilite Roads (27x1.125").  After 6 weeks commuting
(approx 600km), the Hilites are cut through the casing, causing several
flats (even on the Specialized Airlock tube).  I've switched back to
the Michelin Sport on the front, with a Continental Top Touring (27x1.25")
on the back.

I've never had any problems with the Conti - I'm thinking of getting
another one for the front.  My average speed has not dropped at all
(traffic, wind speed and rider health are far more significant factors).
I don't think the hassle of flats with the thinner tyres outweighs the
extra resistance of the thicker ones, at least for city commuting and
training.  The only problem with the Continental is that it is a bit more
expensive; this is offset by the extra cost of repairing and replacing
tubes.

[For the record, today's training run with the above tyre combination
was 41km in 1hr 5min (37.8kph).  Unless you race, tyre tread and thickness
are not significant factors  [Jobst is going to jump all over the anecdotes
in this post, I can tell :-)]]

STF
--
sfleming@cs.hw.ac.uk                        ...uknet!cs.hw.ac.uk!sfleming
"Graduate students should note that forming a relationship with their
   machine learning projects is unlikely to be fruitful."
      -Registration Guidelines, University of LEO, March 2056.
From: landauer@morocco.Eng.Sun.COM (Doug Landauer)
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.soc
Subject: Re: DROOLING STOPS
Date: 28 Sep 1992 16:21:15 GMT
Organization: Sun Microsystems, Mt. View, Ca.
NNTP-Posting-Host: morocco

> Can anyone tell me in which cities are rooling stops permitted on bicycles?

Don't know about rooling, but drooling stops are permitted
(actually required) in Congress.
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.soc
From: gifjmhon@anu.edu.au (J. Gifford)
Subject: Re: Ticketing illegal cycling (was Re: Bikes
 
Reply-To: gifjmhon@anu.edu.au
Organization: Australian National University
Date: Sun, 27 Sep 92 03:18:44 GMT

I have a variation on this theme...

In enlightened Canberra (where i live) the law acknowledges that bicycles are 
indeed not cars, and it is quite legal to ride on footpaths (sidewalks) (with appropriate respect of pedestrians). Further,  there is no sense that pedestrians should wait for lights (or walk signs)---in fact, at intersections where there 
are walk signs installed, they will only go green if the button is pushed, 
even if the corresponding traffic light is green, and they only stay green 
for a few (15 or so) seconds, even if the corresponding traffic light remains 
green indefinitely. Clearly they are intended as a ``suggestion'' to pedestrians.

Thus, when a Canberra cyclist approaches a red light from the road, the apparently legal method of running the light is to neatly ride onto the pedestrian bit, ride across in the legal role as a pedestrian, and then slide back onto the road proper.

Of course, one only performs this maneouver if it would otherwise be ``safe'' to run the red light.

	Giff.

Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.soc
From: jamesg@rucs2.sunlab.cs.runet.edu (James Gillespie)
Subject: Re: ROOLING STOPS
Organization: Radford University
Date: Sat, 26 Sep 92 17:28:31 GMT

In article <901003l.5.717257757@ace.acadiau.ca> 901003l@ace.acadiau.ca (MISMA LEBLANC) writes:
>Can anyone tell me in which cities are rooling stops permitted on bicycles.
>
> By rooling I mean much reduced speed.
>    ^^^^^^^
>Misha LeBlanc 901003l@ace.acadiau.ca

Shouldn't this be rolling?  (Otherwise known as a California stop?) 

Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.soc
From: treitel@gracie.IntelliCorp.COM (Richard Treitel)
Subject: Re: Ticketing illegal cycling (was Re: Bikes and sidewalks)
Date: 25 Sep 92 17:16:06 GMT
Organization: IntelliCorp Inc.

In article <5081@daily-planet.concordia.ca>, honna@cs.concordia.ca (SEGEL honna) writes:

|> For me, traffic lights regulate automobile traffic because automobilists
|> can't be trusted to regulate themselves.

And cyclists can?  Not where I live!  Most of the cyclists either are also
automobilists, or are juveniles (... OK, in mind not body).  Many are both.

I get terribly tired of people -- be they politicians or cyclists -- who go
round saying, "I (and people like me) know better than to obey the law, but
everyone *else* should have to obey it."

Of course, some of the laws you Americans make ... sorry, wrong newsgroup.

			- Richard
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.soc,rec.motorcycles,ba.motorcycles
From: datasbld@bnr.ca (Datasbuild)
Subject: Re: Motorcyclist Hits Bicyclist on Skyline Blvd. (10/4/92, 1:30p)
Organization: BNR Europe Ltd, Maidenhead, UK
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1 PL6]
Date: Tue, 06 Oct 1992 11:58:23 GMT

William D. Bushnell (bushnell@iscnvx.lmsc.lockheed.com) wrote:
: Incidents about people on bikes ...

From what you wrote, William, it sounds like the usual case of idiots showing 
off in front of their fellows.  Almost everybody does this in some way or
another but when it happens as per your description it sounds like it was done
by irrisponsible dickheads.  These dickheads are not limited to bikes, they
pop up all over the place.  Rules and guidelines are OK but some people will
never follow them, they are a bit clueless and a bit stupid and a bit crazy in
a bad sort of way.

Over here, in my home town of Swindon (England) two young male car drivers
decided to have a race.  This is not unusual as you may know but unfortunately
one of the drivers swerved to avoid another car and ploughed into a group of
children who had been sitting on a bench on some grass, off the road.  Five
children were killed.  This driver (who was unhurt - physically) was a reckless
idiot who didn't consider the consequences of his actions.  They are about,
legislation will not get rid of them, keep a look out.  I doubt if any of the
people on this net would do anything like you described, but people who can get
on the net are not usually that type.


Just my twopence worth from sunny(!)  England. We have dickheads too, you know.


Nick    DoD 1069   MAG 73516
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.soc,rec.bicycles.rides,dc.driving,dc.general
From: RONEAL@lexmark.com (Randy O'Neal)
Subject: Re: Commute, a beautiful morning...
X-Disclaimer: These views are the poster's and not necessarily those of Lexmark
Organization: Lexmark International, Lexington, KY
Date: Mon, 5 Oct 1992 18:25:14 GMT

In article <1992Oct2.115706.24258@linus.mitre.org>
woycke@smiley.mitre.org (Daniel Woycke) writes:
 
>
>I just had to let folks know about my commute this morning. I biked in
>to work 15 miles and saw 3 deer, a fox, and a nice (not great)
>sunrise. The only animals I tend to see while driving are dead. Isn't
>this a wonderful reason to bike commute.
>
>Thank You,
 
Last Friday I rode in (17.4 miles one way) and the first 45 minutes were
in your basic blackness save my two VistaLites and my Cateye Halogen.  1
mile from my home I saw a raccoon - just as he scampered across the road
just inches in front of my wheel.  I've seen deer, red and grey foxes, geese,
mallards, squirrels, opossums, raccoons, chipmunks, etc.  Heck, even the
cows and horses are an enjoyable sight.  Taking my son to the babysitter the
other day on the bike... he experienced the closer proximity to cows and
horses that riding on the bike affords.  He was so excited - you'd think he'd
never seen a cow before.  Now he wants to ride every day.
 
Commuting by bike sure brings you closer to the real elements of life... it
serves to remind me that I work to live, not the other way around.
 
Thanks for the post!
 
 
Randy O'Neal  RONEAL@lexmark.com     Printer Attach Software Development
                                     Lexmark International, Inc.
-- Weinberg's Law --                 Lexington, Ky.
'If builders built buildings like
 programmers wrote programs, then                                     __o
 the first woodpecker that came      "The views above are not those  `\<,
 along would destroy civilization.'   of my employer... just mine."  O/ O
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.soc
From: qpliu@phoenix.princeton.edu (q.p.liu)
Subject: Re: The Bird
Originator: news@nimaster
Reply-To: qpliu@princeton.edu
Organization: Princeton University
Date: Sat, 3 Oct 1992 00:53:27 GMT

In article <4cz-D6#@engin.umich.edu> Michael F. Kamprath <kamprath@space-grant.sprl.umich.edu> writes:
>I have a little ethical dilema here . .  I have noticed that my middle 
>finger is starting to pop up alot easier lately when cars honk at me, 
>especially when they almost hit me due to their inability to obey simple
>traffic signals like stop signs.  Do you all think that my response
>to their irritatingly arogant hink gives bikers a bad rap?

I think those motorists who employ the get-out-of-my-way-because-I-
am-in-a-car-and-you-are-not honks, who make up a small fraction of
the total motorist population, already have a negative opinion of
cyclists using the roads so that better behavior in response to
them probably wouldn't make any difference.  Similarly for those
who lean over the passenger seat to scream "Get off the !#* road!"

I find that my reaction to the get-out-of-my-way-because-I-am-a-
moronist-and-you-are-not honks is to stop and respond to the sign
language and inaudible mouthings that follow with guestures of
incomprehension.  I have little hope that any feasible response
to the goomwbiaamayan honks can show the moronists employing them
the uselessness of doing so.  However, it does amuse me to see
how long I can delay those moronists with my tactics.
-- 
qpliu@princeton.edu           Standard opinion: Opinions are delta-correlated.
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.soc
From: madine@cbnewsm.cb.att.com (G. E. Madine, AT&T-BL/AL, cbnewsm.)
Subject: Re: Dangerous situation - advice wanted
Organization: AT&T
Distribution: na
Date: Mon, 28 Sep 1992 05:34:58 GMT
Summary: In PA, passing on the right is sometimes allowed--the question is when?

In article <1992Sep26.040334.12445@linus.mitre.org>, bchivers@smiley.mitre.org (Brent Chivers) writes:
> 
> Correct -- if you have only 1 lane on your side (as was depicted),

An aside.  In PA, you almost always only have one lane on your side.
Sometimes even less than one lane (8.5-foot-wide lanes terminating in
guardrail, woods, cliffs, ditches, etc.).

> then this is passing on the right -- illegal.  They didn't teach it
> when I took drivers' ed, and "everyone" does it.  I was a passenger

Passing on the right in PA is allowed for the special case where
the vehicle in front is making a left turn.  This is a test question
for the PA motor vehicle operator license.  This is repeated in the PA
driver's manual.  It is also a common practice for many vehicle operators
in intersections (which doesn't affirm the law of course).

But.

The PA driver's manual also says that any sort (on left or right) of passing
in, or within 100 feet of an intersection is forbidden unless lane
markings or traffic devices allow.  I suppose they mean left-turn lanes
and left-turn arrows--multi-lane roadways are pretty much only academic
constructs in this state.  This indicates to me that passing on the right
past a vehicle making a left turn from a 1-lane-in-that-direction road
is only allowed if the left turning vehicle is turning into a driveway.
Passing in or near an intersection is not allowed.

Of course, the driver's manual statements--if true, and if I am
interpreting them correctly--mean that no vehicle can pass a bicycle
within 100 feet or in an intersection in PA.

Gary E. Madine, Allentown, PA
gem@aloft.att.com


Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.soc
From: jps@netcom.com (John Serafin)
Subject: Re: no bicycles allowed on Main Street
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services  (408 241-9760 guest) 
Date: Fri, 2 Oct 1992 05:32:43 GMT

caseb@iccgcc.decnet.ab.com writes:

>In article <1992Sep23.185940.1742@cbnewsj.cb.att.com>, tommy@hilbert.att.com (Tom Reingold) writes:
> village
>> ordinance forbids bicycle riding on the two main streets.  The village
>> requires cyclists to walk their bikes on those streets.
>> 
>> The area covered by this law is very small so it's not a great
>> inconvenience but I wonder what the existence of this law means.  Is it
>> worth it to disobey this law?  Does its presence threaten people's
>> rights?  I suspect that some bike riders have been reckless and it

>This kind of law is very common, and typically applies to shopping
>areas with lots of pedestrians.  

>Use of public roads is not a right, so I wouldn't get too upset about
>this particular ordinance.  

Well, maybe.    But are motorists required to walk their cars?
That would make even more sense, since a car can cause a lot more damage
than a bike.

>Brian Case  
-- 
John P. Serafin  |  Operating a bicycle is more like driving than riding.
jps@netcom.com   |  Operating an automobile is more like riding than driving.
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.soc
From: elr@trintex.uucp (Ed Ravin)
Subject: Defending the Path
Organization: Four Wheels Bad, Two Wheels Good
Date: Mon, 28 Sep 1992 17:01:25 GMT

In article <sstrand-250992094716@128.95.36.218> sstrand@u.washington.edu (Stuart E. Strand) writes:

>If defending the path against motor vehicle entry means placing posts or
>other obstructions in the path, I would urge designers to consider the
>increased risk of collision that these obstacles cause versus the unlikely
>and infrequent occurrence of motor vehicle entry that results in accidents
>on the path.  [...] They also hinder
>access by wheelchairs, bike trailers and tricycles.

But all of these problems are still better than finding an abandoned vehicle
blocking the bike path, or piles of construction trash or other garbage
dumped by people looking for an out-of-the-way place to get rid of their
trash cheap.  This may not be a problem in some places on the net, but
in many urban areas, especially New York City metro area, this is a problem
that is strangling the parks.
-- 
Ed Ravin- elr@trintex.uucp| I like to think (and the sooner the better!)
  elr%trintex@uunet.uu.net| Of a cybernetic meadow where mammals and computers
           +1-914-993-4737| Live together in mutually programming harmony
my opinions, nobody else's| Like pure water touching clear sky.  -R. Brautigan
From: ldh@svl.cdc.com (Lawrence D. Hare)
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.soc
Subject: Re: Senior Citizen Slaughters Cyclist, Gainesville Florida
Date: 29 Sep 92 00:43:28 GMT
Organization: Control Data Systems
X-UserAgent: Nuntius v1.1.1d9
X-XXMessage-ID: <A6ECF4A324020456@ethelred.svl.cdc.com>
X-XXDate: Mon, 28 Sep 92 17:42:59 GMT

In article <PERLEY.92Sep25161134@trub.crd.ge.com> Donald P Perley,
perley@trub.crd.ge.com writes:
>a LOT of retirees driving in Florida.  They all vote, and don't take
>kindly to legislators who favor things like license retesting.

In Italy, a country where I lived in a state of constant bewilderment for
five and a half glorious years in my confused youth, seniors and
youngsters are not allowed to drive vehicles over a certain horse power.
I remember Enzi Ferrari going stark staring batty when the law decreed
that he could no longer drive his SuperFast on his (I think) 60th
birthday. What a birthday present!

Then in Europe of course, we test people more regularly. And I really
mean test. The California driver's test is a joke, especially compared to
the British test.

Then the Brits test the car once a year once it is over a certain age.
And that is a full test, brakes, lights, steering, the lot. Keeps some of
the junk off the road.

There are hundreds of bicyclists on the road in Palo Alto where I live -
all ages and none particularly more dangerous than any other. Idiots come
at all ages. But by keeping both humans and the machines they use in a
state or reasonable efficiency, one can help avoid accident.
--
Lawrence D. Hare
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.soc
From: elr@trintex.uucp (Ed Ravin)
Subject: Re: Dangerous situation - advice wanted
Organization: Four Wheels Bad, Two Wheels Good
Date: Mon, 28 Sep 1992 16:42:16 GMT

In article <Aek8pTa00jWR0mB9RL@andrew.cmu.edu> Chadley Kaye Dawson <cd1f+@andrew.cmu.edu> writes:
>
>When riding on city streets I've had the following dangerous
>situation occur a number of times. I'm approaching an intersection
>with a traffic light, but no turn lanes. The light is green, however
>the car in front of me is stopped and waiting to turn left when the
>oncoming traffic in clears.

[dillema deleted -- passing stopped car on right surprises oncoming traffic
turning left in intersection]

Here's what I would do:

*) Pretend you're a car and you're six feet wide and can't slip to the
right of the stopped car.  This means you patiently wait behind the stopped
car until it turns left, and then you proceed normally.  The catch is you'll
probably get stuck behind the light, but you didn't put yourself at risk
or get into a dangerous situation.
-- 
Ed Ravin- elr@trintex.uucp| I like to think (and the sooner the better!)
  elr%trintex@uunet.uu.net| Of a cybernetic meadow where mammals and computers
           +1-914-993-4737| Live together in mutually programming harmony
my opinions, nobody else's| Like pure water touching clear sky.  -R. Brautigan
From: Bicycle Federation of America <bfa@igc.apc.org>
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.soc
Date: 30 Sep 92 19:11 PDT
Subject: Re: Defending the Path
Nf-ID: #R:1992Sep28.170125.405@trintex.uuc:-1245285137:cdp:1702500012:000:259
Nf-From: cdp.UUCP!bfa    Sep 30 19:11:00 1992


FYI, the latest issue of BICYCLE FORUM (#30) has some specific recommendations
for bicycle friendly designs that restrict auto access.  Give the editor, John
Williams a call for details.  406 721-1776.
Good luck, Bill Wilkinson, Bicycle Federation of America

Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.soc
From: tomk@netcom.com (Thomas H. Kunich)
Subject: Re: Dangerous situation - advice wanted
Date: Sat, 26 Sep 92 22:34:25 GMT
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services (408 241-9760 guest)

In article <1992Sep26.040334.12445@linus.mitre.org> bchivers@smiley.mitre.org (Brent Chivers) writes:
>
>Correct -- if you have only 1 lane on your side (as was depicted),
>then this is passing on the right -- illegal.  They didn't teach it

This is piculiar to the state where it occurred.

In California passing on the right is legal if the vehicle ahead
is making a left hand turn.


Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.soc
From: bchivers@smiley.mitre.org (Brent Chivers)
Subject: Re: Dangerous situation - advice wanted
Reply-To: bchivers@mitre.org
Organization: The MaiTai Corp, McLean, VA
Date: Sat, 26 Sep 1992 04:27:29 GMT


In article <1992Sep24.190459.21902@walter.bellcore.com> kenl@origami.cc.bellcore.com (Ken Lehner) writes:
 > An alternative way of looking at the situation:  what you have done
 > could be an illegal pass.  You, as a legitimate and authorized road
 > vehicle, have passed another vehicle on the right.  I believe that
 > you are not really allowed to do this, unless it is a two lane road.

Correct -- if you have only 1 lane on your side (as was depicted),
then this is passing on the right -- illegal.  They didn't teach it
when I took drivers' ed, and "everyone" does it.  I was a passenger
in a car that was stopped by a friendly policeman after performing
this maneuver.  We were let off with just a warning, but while we were
stopped we watched perhaps another half-dozen cars do just as we had.
(But education one- or two-at-a-time is better than no education.)
-- 
______________________________________________________________________

Brent Chivers		McLean, VA		bchivers@mitre.org