HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: hm@cs.brown.edu (Harry Mamaysky)
Subject: Re: Homeland
Organization: Somewhere East or Somewhere West
Date: Mon, 12 Oct 1992 17:13:55 GMT

In article <4025@copper.Denver.Colorado.EDU>, aaldoubo@copper.denver.colorado.edu (Anisa Alnoor Aldoubosh) writes:
|> I was reading through the Washington Report and saw a picture of
|> two women, Ghada Karmi and Ellen Siegel, each holding a sign that
|> read:
|> 
|> 	"I am a Palestinian Arab  I was born in Jerusalem
|> 	Palestine is my Homeland but I cannot return there"
|> 
|> 	"I am an American Jew  I was born in U.S.A.
|> 	Israel is not my Homeland but I can 'return' there"

As among all other people, there are those Jews who have very little
feel for the history of their own people. So the unfortunate ignorance
of one individual should not be used to stereotype the whole.

There were six million European Jews who were all born in Europe whose
homeland WAS (is and will be) Israel. They wnated to return there, but
couldn't. They all were slaughtered. Ellen Siegel has unfortunately
forgotten them. I haven't. Thank God, there are five million in Israel
who haven't forgotten them either.

Besides, I hate these little two sentence morality signs. They seem
awful sensationalist to me.

|> The caption above the pictures identified the women "in front of
|> the Israeli embassy in London in 1973 and 1992".
|> 
|> Anisa
|>  

Harry.
Xref: sparky talk.politics.mideast:20983 soc.culture.arabic:4211
From: gmeltzne@jarthur.claremont.edu (Manu)
Subject: Re: Very Weak Zionist Claims Over Palestine
Organization: Harvey Mudd College, Claremont, CA 91711
Date: Tue, 13 Oct 1992 07:48:51 GMT

In article <1992Oct12.220510.8232@trl.oz.au> a.Faris@trl.oz.au  writes:

>Mr. Livni you have just proven yourself to be nothing but a flaming asshole
>who no one should even bother to read your posts. For your information, I am
>more civilised and honest than you will ever be. You have shown that you
>cannot even handle the trueth and when confronted with the trueth, you simply
>hide under that thick shell of yours and spew out all kinds of crap.
>
>As for being backward, I prefer to be backward instead of being a LIAR like
>you. Furthermore, My level of intelligence is something that will take you
>centuries to accumulate, since you have shown that you cannot even debate
>simple topics, rather you resort to sarcastic arguments that put people
>down just because they are speaking the trueth.
>
>A.Faris

Mr. Faris:
	After having much experience at reading flames, I must say that
yours must be one of the ten worst.  It is much, much too long.  I
could summarize it as so:

		I'm better than you.  You're a liar.  Nyah, nyah, nyah.
I didn't follow the thread very closely, but based on its own merrits,
your flame was just plain poor.

-Geoff

(Hey Anisa, look what I didn't criticize :) )
-- 
Email: gmeltzne@jarthur.claremont.edu            

"The Arab governments were largely responsible for the ruin of the Palestinian
  Arabs"     -Sir John Bagot Glubb
From: aaldoubo@copper.denver.colorado.edu (Anisa Alnoor Aldoubosh)
Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast
Subject: Re: More on Kuwiati Elections and Aftermath
Date: 11 Oct 92 06:20:44 GMT
Organization: University of Colorado at Denver

In article <Bvt7wH.108.2@cs.cmu.edu> anwar+@cs.cmu.edu (Anwar Mohammed) writes:
>
>I thought I'd follow up Anisa's posting on the exciting events in
>Kuwait with the following.


But in order to be impressive, you should consider learning how to spell
the name of *your* country first.  (see subject line)

Hee hee!  :-)

Anisa
Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast
Subject: Re: Answer to nabeel
From: anwar+@cs.cmu.edu (Anwar Mohammed)
Date: Mon, 12 Oct 1992 15:12:31 GMT
Organization: School of Computer Science, Carnegie Mellon

In article <4034@copper.Denver.Colorado.EDU> aaldoubo@copper.denver.colorado.edu (Anisa Alnoor Aldoubosh) writes:
>Further insults instead of countering the argument with any wit,
>intelligence, or logic.

I can scarcely think of anything more ridiculous than Anisa 
attacking anyone on this newsgroup for their lack of "wit, 
intelligence, or logic."

This from someone whose idea of debate consists of pointing out
spelling errors, speculating on the number of wives the Emir 
has had, and, failing all this, attributes everything to conpiracies
of the CIA, Mossad, and the (imagined) anti-Islamist tendencies of 
your adversary.  Witty?  Intelligent?  Logical?  No, just the same 
old boring nonsense.

>
>Anisa
>

Yawn,
anwar
-- 
Anwar Mohammed                FREE       Graduate Student
anwar+@cs.cmu.edu              THE       School of Computer Science
Voice: +1 412 268 3043     KUWAITI       Carnegie-Mellon University
Fax:   +1 412 681 5739        POWS       Pittsburgh, PA  15213-3890
From: aaldoubo@copper.denver.colorado.edu (Anisa Alnoor Aldoubosh)
Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast
Subject: Re: casualties during the Intifadah
Date: 13 Oct 92 03:04:23 GMT
Organization: University of Colorado at Denver

In article <1bdbh6INNieu@usenet.INS.CWRU.Edu> bx573@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Alan H. Stein) writes:
>
>Thank you for one of the biggest belly laughs I've had in a long time.

Alan, do you really enjoy the misery of other people?

Common, where is your sensitivity?  If you do not agree with the sources
posted, why don't you compile some statistics of your own?  Or is it that
it doesn't directly affect you or your people to the extent that you have
any regards or sympathy?

Perhaps the only thing that matters to you is Israel over everything,
including human lives and tragedies.

Anisa

	"We don't live in Israel.  Not at all.  We live in
	Palestinian territory.  It's Israeli occupied."
					Hanan Ashrawi
From: jeremy@castle.ed.ac.uk (JHenderson)
Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast
Subject: Re: Serbia etc.
Date: 7 Oct 92 09:34:11 GMT
Organization: Edinburgh University

In article <1992Oct6.192436.23975@midway.uchicago.edu> rivk@midway.uchicago.edu writes:
=>In article <26595@castle.ed.ac.uk> jeremy@castle.ed.ac.uk (JHenderson) writes:
=>>Article in todays "Guardian":
=>>
=>>Serbs court Jewish veterrans as 'natural allies'
=>>.
=>>The Belgrade government has consistently sought the [Jewish Friendship]
=>>society's support in the Croation conflict. Statements from the organization 
=>>have lent moral justification to the Serbian cause, while television
=>>appearances by Mrs. Mandic and composer Enrico Josef - famous for his
=>>description of Serbs as "celestial people" - have reinforced the belief
=>>that Jews are Serbs natural allies.
=>
=>This is possibly true but I know of no Jew who is buying it.

Well I name two in my posting - what do you want, the Belgrade phone directory?



-- 
===Jeremy Henderson===jeremy@castle.ed.ac.uk=          Vommen
                                             Bladmagen
                                   Loepmagen
                        Naetmagen
Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast
From: kshammou@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (Khaled J Shammout)
Subject: Re: To Yigal Arens
Organization: The Ohio State University
Date: Wed, 14 Oct 1992 17:47:48 GMT

>In article <1992Oct6.003514.24058@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu>
>kshammou@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (Khaled J Shammout) writes:

> > Thank you Yigal Arens for shedding the TRUTH, and nothing but
> >the TRUTH. To be fair and unbiased now a days is very hard; and you
> >are unique, Yigal.
> >^^^^^^^^^
> >Thank You     Wa Salam             Khaled Shammout

>Yigal is not Unique.
> His friends to the Marxist underground MAZPEN are still just like
> him.

     Whom do you think I respect more: 
           A) a person (such as Yigal) who's overcome prejudice and learned
              to love and repect his enemy (and talk the truth about them);  OR
           B) a person (such as yourself) who always lies about the truth and
              is soaked with hatred?????

     Need I provide you with the answer?

Wa Salam
--------------------
Khaled J Shammout
From: aaldoubo@copper.denver.colorado.edu (Anisa Alnoor Aldoubosh)
Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast
Subject: Re: Who are the Canaanites
Date: 16 Oct 92 06:01:01 GMT
Organization: University of Colorado at Denver

>In article <1992Oct14.153615.27010@discus.technion.ac.il>, davidba@carmel.technion.ac.il (David Ben_Ami) writes:
> 
> The Phoenicians are yet another Semitic people who is extinct as far as
> we know. (There is no group that calls itself Cannatite or Phoenician
> today with any remote evidence).

Actually, I've met several Lebanese whom consider themselves to be
Phoenician.

I guess that doesn't count for anything, though.  Only the semitic people
who lived in Palestine over several thousand years ago can now be considered
Israelis with plenty of "remote evidence" - enough to try and make yet
another semitic people "extinct".  But maybe those other people didn't
exist at all!  Isn't that what Israel preaches?

Anisa
From: bval@ilws61 (Valentine Bob)
Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast
Subject: directly or indirectly related
Date: 15 Oct 92 06:56:56 GMT
Organization: Intel
X-Newsreader: Tin 1.1 PL4

The question was:

   "all conflicts in the Middle East directly or indirectly related
    to the creation of Israel."

  "No, Gulf war, Iran-Iraq, Lebanon, Hama (whatever, the massacre
   in Syria), Kurds in Iraq..."

To which Anisa answered that all these were related, directly or 
indirectly to states created after WWII, formost of which is Israel,
so "indirectly" is therefor, true.

....

I believe Anisa meant WWI, i.e., the Brits and French splitting the 
Ottoman empire, which would be "directly or indirectly" related to the
formentioned conflicts.

Since all the recent conflicts in the Middle East are related to there
being independent states in what was once Greater Syria AND Israel
is one of the independent states to asppear in that region since that
time, AND since "indirectly related" is not particularly quantifiable,
Anisa is correct in saying that the statement, as such, is "true".

However, since the statement is equally true for any of the other
states created at the same time, it does reveal the authors bias that
he used "creation of Israel", rather than "dissolution of Ottomoman
Empire" or "creation of <Jordan, Iraq, Lebanon, Syria, 
[Mandate Palestine], [choose any as suits your bias]>".

I believe the point of the original poster was to site this quote as
an example of bias that reveals the questionability of the
authors magazine as an unbiased source. 

This is therefor also "True".

Bob
Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast
From: kshammou@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (Khaled J Shammout)
Subject: Re: Arab, non-Arabs, and criticism of Israel/Jews
Organization: The Ohio State University
Date: Thu, 15 Oct 1992 22:07:50 GMT

In article <1992Oct15.150520.341@cs.brown.edu> dzk@cs.brown.edu (Danny Keren) w
rites:
>I would like to hear an answer from everybody, but especially from
>the Arab/Muslim readers, to the following question.
>
>After all, Israel's problems and disagreements are with its
>neighbours and with the Palestinians. Israel hardly is a factor
>in areas execpt for the middle-east. One would expect that the
>most vocal and violent arguments in this newsgroups would be
>between Jews/Israelis and Muslims/Arabs.
>
>Yet, this is not the case. The most cruel, unfair, and antisemitic
>posters come, in the very large part, from people who are
>not Arabs nor Muslims, and who live in countries which have
>nothing to do with the middle-east.
>
>Naturaly I don't advocate censorship of any kind. But I just wonder
>what the reasons for this strange phenomena are. Perhaps there
>is some natural affinity between Jews and Muslims, in spite
>of all the difficulties and bloodshed. Or, perhaps, antisemitism
>is alive and kicking in the west?
>
>-Danny Keren.
>
     The answer is VERY VERY VERY simple, Danny.  It has nothing to do with
being a Palestinian (in particular), an Arab (in general), a Muslim, a MIddle
Eastern, or anti-semetic. 
     IT IS A MATTER OF KNOWING AND SPEAKING THE TRUTH.

Wa Salam
----------------
Khaled Shammout
From: arens@ISI.EDU (Yigal Arens)
Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast
Subject: Re: To Yigal Arens
Date: 15 Oct 92 19:38:53 GMT
	<1992Oct14.174748.23804@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu> <4287@bimacs.BITNET>
Organization: USC/Information Sciences Institute
In-reply-to: ehrlich@bimacs.BITNET's message of 15 Oct 92 09:01:45 GMT

In article <4287@bimacs.BITNET> ehrlich@bimacs.BITNET (Gideon Ehrlich) writes:
>
> In article <1992Oct14.174748.23804@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu> kshammou@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (Khaled J Shammout) writes:
> >>In article <1992Oct6.003514.24058@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu>
> >>kshammou@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (Khaled J Shammout) writes:
> >
> >> > Thank you Yigal Arens for shedding the TRUTH, and nothing but
> >> >the TRUTH. To be fair and unbiased now a days is very hard; and you
> >> >are unique, Yigal.
> >> >^^^^^^^^^
> >> >Thank You     Wa Salam             Khaled Shammout
> >
> >>Yigal is not Unique.
> >> His friends to the Marxist underground MAZPEN are still just like
> >> him.               ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
> >
> >     Whom do you think I respect more:
> >
> >   a person (such as Yigal) who's overcome prejudice and learned
> >   to love and repect his enemy (and talk the truth about them) ..
> ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
> >Wa Salam              Khaled J Shammout
>
>
> What do you Khaled know that we don't know.
> How can you say that he love and respect the Jews - his enemy?
>
> His underground Mazpen was involved in a terro activity aginst jews.
> Mazpen members, together with the Syrian intelegence plane exploding the
> Frotarum chemical plane near Haifa and by that poisonong by a
> poison-gas  (chlorine ) the jews of that area.

I guess the time has come to put an end to this bullshit.

The Jewish-Arab group to which I belonged when I lived in Israel was
(and is) known as Matzpen ("Compass").  The group was (and is)
completely legal and operated in the open, publishing a monthly paper
licensed by the government -- like all papers in Israel need to be.  It
was not an "underground" organization in any sense of the word, and the
claim that it "was involved in a terro activity aginst jews"(sic) is
totally absurd.

Two people who at one time had been members of Matzpen decided to come
into closer contact with the PLO.  They were tricked into meeting with
Syrian intelligence, and were eventually caught by Israel and tried.
They had no intention of following up on their contacts with Syrian
intelligence, and no one proved otherwise.  Their intention was to
contact Palestinians.  The story about a "plan" to explode a chemical
plant, etc., is just another idiotic invention from Mr. Ehrlich's dark
mind.  In any case, it did not involve me or Matzpen in any way, so it
is not clear what relevance it has to the discussion.
--
Yigal Arens
USC/ISI
arens@isi.edu
From: gmeltzne@jarthur.claremont.edu (Manu)
Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast
Subject: Re: casualties during the Intifadah
Date: 14 Oct 92 17:24:32 GMT
Organization: Harvey Mudd College, Claremont, CA 91711

In article <1992Oct14.055318.2438984@locus.com> jle@locus.com (John Elghani/10000000) writes:
>In article <1992Oct13.225505.18386@muddcs.claremont.edu> gmeltzne@jarthur.claremont.edu (Manu) writes:
>>	Next I'll here that Israel is to blame for the earthquake
>>	in Cairo.
>
>Why do you find that hard to believe?  :)
>May be they are ocean testing one of their 220 nuke bombs that 
>they are preparing 10 for each arabic country.  Where else can they test?

	I hope that you're joking, I really do.

>Don't undermind their activities.   You tell me, what are the Mossads
>doing in Kashmir?  Why do they wish to crush the movement their?
>Isn't that surprising?

	I have no idea what the Mossad is doing in Kashmir or why they
have any interest there.  However, the story came from an Iranian paper
so when I see it in the New York Times or the LA Times or reported by
AP or UPI, I'll worry about it.

>
>>>Where is Judea, by the way?
>>>
>>Try the West Bank.
>
>How about Germany or Russia.  Germans and Russians are comming to

	Last I looked, there was no Judea in either Germany or Russia.

>the land and wanting to reinstante Judea  as theirs.  Why don't they
>leave it to its natives.

	Well, you know, if King Hussein didn't enter the 1967 war,
	the Palestinians could have owned Judea.

  THe Judaea people are the current natives, not the 100% blonde.
	I'll bet you any amount of money that a large percent of
	European immigrants to Israel are not 100% blonde.

  The Judea people may have been Jewish by religion
>in the past, but converted to Christianity and Islam as these two religions
>reached there as well.  Yes, the expelled Palestinians may have been Jews
>to start with but converted to other religions.
	A large part of the Christian and Moslem converts were pagans.

  What's the big deal.
>This does not give a polish convert the right over the native
>that may have been a jew living in judea then converted to something else.
>The Afghani people were all jewish, now they are all muslims.
>Are you surprised?
>
	Yes  I am.  I'm sure that the not all the Afghanis were Jewish.

	Geoff

>jle


-- 
Email: gmeltzne@jarthur.claremont.edu            

A .sig?  A .sig? We don't need no stinkin' .sigs!
From: aaldoubo@copper.denver.colorado.edu (Anisa Alnoor Aldoubosh)
Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast
Subject: Re: Violence mounts in southern Lebanon
Date: 14 Oct 92 22:44:21 GMT
Organization: University of Colorado at Denver

In article <1992Oct13.140508.6443@ncsu.edu> hernlem@chess.ncsu.EDU (Brad Hernlem) writes:
>In article <2m0FsB1w163w@peewee>, peewee@infoserv.com (Philip Stromer) writes:
> 
>> I'm particularly interested in following the UPI, now that the Saudis
>> have bought them.  I wonder if they'll ever publish anything from,
>> say, Anisa, about Saudi repression of women.  Highly doubtful...
>
>Phil, you're sounding a little like Jack. Replace "Saudis" with
>"American Jews" and think about it.  
 
Brad, I understand what you are saying here, :-), but the Saudis
*really* did buy UPI several months ago.  If I can find the article,
I will post it.

Anisa
From: jeremy@castle.ed.ac.uk (Jeremy Henderson)
Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast
Subject: Re: Serbia etc.
Date: 16 Oct 92 09:26:56 GMT
Organization: Edinburgh University

In article <1992Oct15.134845.27931@cs.brown.edu> dzk@cs.brown.edu (Danny Keren) writes:
~jeremy@castle.ed.ac.uk (JHenderson) writes:
~#(Jack Schmidling) writes:
~##
~##While browsing through a seed catalog, I noticed that the nice folks
~##who censor and control such things have changed the name of a very popular
~##cultivated flower from Wandering Jew to Wandering Gyspy.
~#
~##Anybody have any idea why?
~#
~#Simple enough. Not enough gypsies died in death camps to pay for even a 
~#little compassion, let alone to pay the rent on a brand new "homeland".
~
~Oh, Germy. Why don't you quit this nonsense? Who said that "Not enough
~gypsies died in death camps"? Who made the decision to change the name
~of the flower (if the original information is correct)? The international
~Jews? What do you think about the expression "Wandering Jew"?
~
~Did "the Jews" ever express any objection to a homeland for the
~Gypsies? I am interested to know.

Danny, I think it would be a bit more productive if you tried addressing
the points I actually made, rather than the ones that your stereotypical
viewpoint demands that you think I made. I don't recall saying that any
Jews objected to a homeland for the gypsies. If you have to read some big
significance into an off-hand remark, it is simply this: for whatever
reason, the world knows very well what happened to the Jews at the hands of
the Nazis, but seems less cognizant of the fact that the same thing (smaller
numbers, but same moral principle at work) happened to the gypsies. The
Jews received support for construction of a homeland (obviously we disagree
on the validity of the claims for the location of that homeland) whereas
the gypsies continue to be victimised, most recently by our own dear Tory
government.

~You are improving, though. After comparing Israel to Nazi Germany
~and asserting that Jews are "proponents of ethnic clensing" I
~expected you to start quoting from the "Protocols of the elders
~of Zion". Your poster, although idiotic, insulting and pointless
~as usuall, is rather tame in comparison.

Love you too, honey,


-- 
===Jeremy Henderson===jeremy@castle.ed.ac.uk=          

"Telling people how to think doesn't work. They always have stupid
 ideas of their own."
From: aaldoubo@copper.denver.colorado.edu (Anisa Alnoor Aldoubosh)
Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast
Subject: Re: To Yigal Arens
Date: 15 Oct 92 21:57:42 GMT
Organization: University of Colorado at Denver

In article <16101@umd5.umd.edu> spinoza@next07wor.wam.umd.edu (Yon Bonnie Laird of Cairn Robbing) writes:
> 
>Which begs the question: do you therefore respect the Israelis and condemn  
>the actions of the Arab leaders like Hussein and the Emir?

That isn't the point at all.  Khaled is just making a statement based
on reactions from these two posters.

And whenever we criticize "the Arab leaders like Hussein and the Emir",
people like Anwar and Razooqi jump in to defend their leader's actions
and other posters tell us to just keep our mouths shut just to avoid
further division between us.

So what would you suggest?  Fight a one-sided battle or two-sided one?

>peace, love, and crunchy granola.............

Obviously you have nothing else to worry about.

Anisa

	"We don't live in Israel.  Not at all.  We live in
	Palestinian territory.  It's Israeli occupied."
					Hanan Ashrawi

Xref: sparky talk.politics.mideast:20991 soc.culture.arabic:4215 soc.culture.jewish:17452