HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: felixc@cbnewsj.cb.att.com (felix.cabral)
Subject: Re: Lifejackets while windsurfing
Organization: AT&T
Distribution: na
Date: Thu, 27 Aug 1992 19:16:59 GMT

In article <thompson.714936806@daphne.socsci.umn.edu> thompson@atlas.socsci.umn.edu writes:
>srgxnbs@grv (Bruce Spedding) writes:
>
>>In article <thompson.714847579@daphne.socsci.umn.edu>, thompson@atlas.socsci.umn.edu (T. Scott Thompson) writes:
>
>>>I don't find the arguments that wetsuit+harness = enough flotation to
>>>be true for me.  I got bonked on the head once by another guy's mast.
>>                  ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>>>I was pretty glad I had a real PFD on then.  Freak accidents do happen
>>>and a PFD might save your life.
>
>For the record: When I got "bonked" it was (a) light air, (b) flat
>water, (c) hot (i.e. no wetsuits).  I was racing.  The other guy just
>dropped a very large and heavy rig on me as I passed to leeward.  I
>was not out cold, but definitely could not swim well for about one
>minute.  Do other people wear wetsuits/helmets in these conditions?
>Certainly no one else in sight of me at the time was.
>--

As a rule I never pass on the leeward side. If I do its because I have lots of
speed and I keep at least a mast length away. Passing on leeward will cause
you to get into "dirty" air slowing you down considerably. This is especially
true if you are just barely passing someone and are within a mast length
away.

In either case (leeward or windward), a good rule to follow is don't pass 
someone without having at least a mast length between you. This should be the 
case whether the sailor is underway or down in the water. I get awfully
annoyed when someone flies by me close enough to spray my face while I'm
waterstarting.

I wear my helmet only in conditions less than 5.5. I do this even if I'm the
only one sailing. In these conditions I tend to sail "hard" and aggressive.
I hit myself once very hard during a high speed jibe in which I lost my
grip during sail change. The mast came crashing down on my head as I fell into
the turn. I saw stars for a second or so.



-- 
Felix Cabral         {felixc@mtgzfs3.att.com}      "Give me nukin winds,
AT&T Bell Labs       {  att!mtgzfs3!felixc  }       a rad board, rad waves,
Middletown,NJ        {     (908)957-5081    }       and a company sickday!"
Newsgroups: rec.windsurfing
From: wolf@leland.Stanford.EDU (Andy Wolfsberg)
Subject: Re: Sailing Right-Of-Way
Organization: DSG, Stanford University, CA 94305, USA
Date: Tue, 1 Sep 92 22:18:06 GMT

In article <1992Sep1.212137.5059@am.dsir.govt.nz> srgxnbs@grv writes:
>
>How about promoting such things as the boom manufacturers putting "OK" and
>"GIVE-WAY!" on the right and left booms, and other equipment manufacturers
>putting safety information on their products. Motorcycle manufacturers have
>put "Protect nature, wear a helmet" on their bikes for years (in NZ anyway)

I like the idea of encouraging manufacturers to supply "right of way
rules" with equipment. However, >>> "OK" and "GIVE-WAY!" on the right
 and left booms <<<<  doesn't make much sense to me.  I really doubt 
anyone could read such text as they come blazing at an oncoming sailor.
I also wouldn't support forcing specific color schemes on boom and sail
manufacturers.  Part of the beauty of windsurfing are all of the
colors.
>
>Bruce
>
Andy
From: hortin_lab@wums.wustl.edu
Newsgroups: rec.windsurfing
Subject: larger sails
Date: 2 SEP 92 10:25:58 GMT
Organization: MIT PLASMA FUSION CENTER
NNTP-Posting-Host: msnews.wustl.edu

with all of the talk about mail orders blowing about i am still forced to use 
them do to location.  
I have been thinking about getting a larger sail (7.5-8.5M) for my fanatic viper
i live in the midwest where wind is less than good during most of the days where the temp is above 50 degrees.  i do a lot of lake sailing and have only one board w/ 16.5' mast & 1.5' extension, 8'boom (both fanatic production stuff)
currently use a raf 6.4M

yesterday i recieved the catalog form sailboard warehouse for there end of the year sales.  i noticed that the only larger sails they had were the mistral slalom mylar (7.6 & 8.5M). These were at the reasonalbe price of 99$.  I am
wondering if these sails are white elephants?   it appears that they require
a 17' mast and a 8' boom (both of which i could accomidate) but in comparison to the other sails (ie neil pryde, art, etc) it seems as though these sails are 
very wide at the bottom?  

does any one have any experience or info on these sails?

my ability is is currently stalled at the waterstarting stage (hopefully will 
over come by the end of the season) so could these be up hauled on my board?

tag

thanks for any info e-mail or post is okay
From: gboates@admin.acadiau.ca (GARY BOATES)
Newsgroups: rec.windsurfing
Subject: lifejacket
Keywords: safety
Date: 28 Aug 92 15:31:41 GMT
Organization: Acadia University

It strikes me as funny to have this much "chat" about the pros and cons of 
lifejackets.  Common sense should prevail.  Although worldwide I may get 
some argument, we in Nova Scotia, Canada and in particular the Bay of Fundy, 
enjoy the highest tides in the world.  This is great when it works in your 
favour but I always tell my sailing companions - "Don't sail farther than 
you can swim/survive in the existing conditions AND don't count and other 
things or people to help you out.  This means loosing your board and rig!" 

I've been tossed and had the rig land on the deck of a waveboard and have it 
drift/sail away.  Thankfully a gust/swell knocked it off close enough for me 
to reach by a moderate swim.  Anything can happen BUT I find the worst 
offenders (if I may use that word) are beginner/intermediates who can not 
complete many or all of their gybes.  They go on these long tacks far 
offshore, by themselves, and I only like to gybe so never follow them.  This 
puts them at risk.  A long-time but very poor shortboard sailor had to be 
rescued from the tide and now he is so frightened that he has relegated 
himself to "lakesailing".  Good common sense should prevail: WATCH EXPERTS 
AT YOUR SAILING SITE !  If they don't go on big downwindersmaybe there is 
good reason.  Look stupid and ask question regarding safety.  Have a plan 
for each site you sail.

If you sail in strange waters pick an area and chart it out slowly.  I know 
people who have run aground (one of my best friends) soundside at Cape 
Hatteras, N.C. (USA)  over a mile offshore and snapped a fin.  

To wear or not to wear a lifejacket is just a small question in the BIG EXAM 
of life.  Darwin's theory is still at work.  If you are truly stupid you 
DIE! Either on the highway, water, cliffside etc. - it doesn't matter.  
True accidents are rare.  Lottery-odds type of accidents cannot be avoided. 
All others can.

It must be Friday!
From: kramer@olympus.ics.uci.edu (David Kramer)
Subject: Re: Sailing Right-Of-Way
Newsgroups: rec.windsurfing
Reply-To: kramer@ics.uci.edu (David Kramer)
Organization: Univ. of Calif., Irvine, Info. & Computer Sci. Dept.
Date: 31 Aug 92 22:11:50 GMT

>  First of all, when two sailors approach each other on opposite tacks,
>  the sailor on starboard tack has the right-of-way.  (Ken, starboard
>  means your RIGHT hand is forward).  It is the responsibility of the
>  sailor on port tack (left hand forward) to avoid the sailor on
>  starboard tack.
>
>  So, how many times have you been on port tack and had this starboard
>  tack person mirror your efforts to avoid collision?  It happens to me
>  A LOT!  This brings up the next point.  The sailor on starboard tack,
>  when approaching a sailor on port tack, should attempt to hold the
>  course that is being sailed so that the port tack sailor can maneuver
>  to avoid a collision.

What you failed to mention is that the sailor on starboard tack has to
yell "starboard tack", the sailor on port tack has to yell "hold your
course." The starboard-tack sailor is then expected to hold his course.
In this way, both know what their respective rights are, and the mirror
problem doesn't occur.

Of course these rules were all made up for the gentlemanly sport of
yachting, not for freefall-on-water conditions where you can hardly
hear yourself scream, never mind anyone else.

David
From: kirk@hpcc01.corp.hp.com (Kirk Lindstrom)
Date: Wed, 26 Aug 1992 14:36:08 GMT
Subject: Re: F2 Vega or Seatrend 99
Organization: Shredding the water of SF Bay, HP-OCD
Newsgroups: rec.windsurfing

>	Oh, a few considerations here.  The reason I'm looking at the really
>big boys is because I weigh 220.  I've tried an older ~9.5 ft Fanatic board
>(can't think of the name right now) on the marginal days, with a 7.2 sail.
>When everyone else is getting along fine, I'm just bobbing :(.  I also sail
>in a place where it can shut down almost completely, without too much
>warning, so I'd like something that would "float" me in if it needed to
>(Ever been out on a Sputnik, with a 3.9 and have everything disappear?).
>-- 
>Tim Costello
>----------
I think those older boards didn't have the big, wide, floaty tails.  I'd
consider either:
-Mistral Explode:  9'4", 130L, VERY wide tail and light 17 or 19 lbs 
 depending on material.
-Velocity (used):  9'9", 160L (heavy but fast).

The Mistral should carry a 7.4 with no problem and the Velocity I have
carries a 7.5 very well with room in the mast track to go bigger.

Maybe I should sell my Velocity and 7.5 North TCC (for the right offer)
since now that I pump better, I can get my 9'3" with a 6.7 on a plane
in very light wind (maybe 12 knots?).  The lighter boards pump up
much easier since they are so light, but they cost alot.

Kirk out
8'8" Challange Flex, 8'11" & 9'3" ASD epoxy, 9'9" Velocity & 11'6" Malibu 
Wt 213#, Ht. 6'0", Usually sail on SF Bay, Cailf.  (kirk@hpocia.sj.hp.com)
From: pjp@sloth.mlb.semi.harris.com (Pat J. Pinchera)
Newsgroups: rec.windsurfing
Subject: Re: Thanks  Andrew !
Date: 27 Aug 92 12:42:37 GMT
Organization: ICS, Melbourne FL

In article <yXR5PB1w164w@cybernet.cse.fau.edu> vlasis.bbs@cybernet.cse.fau.edu writes:
>Hey ,Gorge addicts out there ... 
>This weekend I got catapulted by my 3.0 on my Hi Tech. Were was it ?
>Try key Biscane in Miami beach . 

I didn't have quite that much much wind, but I still had a good time.
I'm in Melbourne, about 180 miles north of Miami on the east coast of
Florida. Sunday afternoon I went looking for wind. All I found was 12-15
knots NE, higher in the squalls or feeder bands when they came by, but
then it would completely die after them. Oh well, so much for Andrew...
I stayed up late waiting for the winds to hit, but since Andrew was so
tight an compact, nothing seemed to happen. Slept in Monday because we
had shut down the computers on Saturday, and had written off Monday as a
work day 'cause we thought we'd get too many brown-outs and power bumps to
make any kind of computer time productive. Well, good thing, because I
noticed it was windy at my house at 8:30AM Monday!!
Got to the normal spot on the Indian River (Lagoon) by 10:00AM and
clocked it at 22 knots ESE!!  Rigged a 5.2 and sailed until my hands
coudn't take any more (about 1:00PM, what a wimp!)  Usually tropical
storm/hurricane sailing is very gusty and inconsistent, you need a 3.5
to 6.0.  But Monday morning was just as steady and filled in as you
could ask for. Granted a 5.2 isn't what you Gorge sailors typically
enjoy, but hey, this is Florida in the middle of Summer!!  No wetsuit,
just lots of sunscreen.


Pat
 'P19'

P.S. Any reports from the IMCO/USWA Nationals? Bill? Felix? I heard you
guys had 2 races in 20-25 knots, but the other 8 were in 5 knots or
less.
From: kettering@addvax.llnl.gov (Brett 'Volleyball Is My Game' Kettering)
Newsgroups: rec.windsurfing
Subject: Looking for DAVE 'THE WAVE' SANGIOVANNI
Date: 31 Aug 92 15:22:00 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: Lawrence Livermore National Laboratory
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.40

Dave,

I have tried to contact you by phone about your windsurfer for sale, but
have had no luck.  Please get ahold of me by e-mail to let me know the
status of the equipment.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Brett M. Kettering
PaperNet: LLNL P.O. Box 808 L-437 Livermore, CA.  94551
InterNet: brettk@llnl.gov
TalkNet : (510) 423-3467
FaxNet  : (510) 423-4606

"No other success can compensate for failure in the home."
                   -- David O. McKay
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: ktc@onan.jhuapl.edu
Newsgroups: rec.windsurfing
Subject: San Diego weather stats
Date: 2 Sep 92 16:03:52 GMT
Organization: Johns Hopkins University

I need pointers to marine weather stats and anecdotal data on Pt. Loma wind  
speed/direction, overcast, fog, and kelp bed extents for January. 

Kim Constantikes
ktc@onan.jhuapl.edu
Newsgroups: rec.windsurfing
Subject: Re: Looking for a Wind Talker
From: srgxnbs@grv (Bruce Spedding)
Date: Tue, 25 Aug 92 21:35:30 GMT
Reply-To: srgxnbs@grv
Organization: DSIR, Lower Hutt, New Zealand.

In article <1992Aug21.161623.20514@engage.pko.dec.com>, stu@otop23.oto.dec.com (Stuart MacKay) writes:
>
>Hi folks,
>
>I am looking for the possibility of installing a device which can read the
>current wind speed and direction that I could phone into and it could tell
>me what is happening.
>
>The local weather office is less than useless.
>
>Apparently, there are devices in San Francisco called a Wind Talker.  This
>appears to do exactly what I want however, I have no idea where or who to 
>talk to about it. 
>
>Any leads?
>
>Regards,
>Stu MacKay
>Ottawa, Canada

This information is old but...
LITEK Co.
4326 Fish Hatchery Road
Grants Pass
Oregon 97527
(503)479-6633
demo call (314)434-9292

Bruce Spedding
Materials Science and Performance
Industrial Research Ltd,     Fax: +64-4-569-0132
P.O.Box 31310,              Work: +64-4-569-0485
Lower Hutt,  ( NZST : +12 ) Home: +64-4-562-8522
New Zealand.  Internet: srgxnbs@grv.grace.cri.nz
From: wolf@leland.Stanford.EDU (Andy Wolfsberg)
Subject: Re: HAILS (was: Sailing Right-Of-Way)
Organization: DSG, Stanford University, CA 94305, USA
Date: Fri, 4 Sep 92 16:43:41 GMT

In article <4310493@hpcc01.corp.hp.com> kirk@hpcc01.corp.hp.com (Kirk Lindstrom) writes:
>
>dot dot dot
>
>For Andy's idea of "OK" and "GIVE WAY" on the boom, one must assume the
>the person using the boom attaches it correctly (If the boom even has a
>top side).  I bought a chain saw and it had SO MUCH safety info I bet
>no one bothers reading it.  I'd hate to see WSing gear get to that point.

Just for the record, I (Andy) didn't like that idea much either.  I was
responding to another post which advocated such print on the booms. I *only* 
agreed that including info about right-of-way rules with new equipment 
(let's say boards and sails) would be a good idea.  At least it would
indicate to people buying equipment that there are in fact rules. 
 
The truth is, I haven't had much trouble at all with *near* collisions 
at 3rd or Coyote area this year.  Even though it often seems crowded
near the launch, I have always been very pleased with the bay's ability
to spread us all out. 
(I understand - and appreciate - that some of you have have not been
so pleased)

>
>Nothing is easier to remember than "RIGHT HAND FORWARD on the BOOM has
>RIGHT of way" when approaching another sailor.  
>

AGREED - 100%

I also think that "over-safety-afying" WS would be a drag.  We
should be able to count on our equipment to perform well, but WE must
be responsible to understand that there are risks.  I dread the day that
someone takes a WS manufacturer to court because they got bonked on the
head.  I can just see the warranty on a mast being invalid if you
weren't wearing a helmut ( and hey,I even wear one and a PFD).
Also, lawyer fees would cause prices in this already expensive hobby
to JUMP ^  (No offense to our windsurfing lawyer friends..Do they use the
net?  Probably not.  
We all know why they can sail in the ocean without worrying about shark
attacks....
..........professional courtesy from the sharks :^)  )

>Kirk out
>----------
>

Andy
From: henrik@mpci.llnl.gov (Henrik Klagges)
Newsgroups: rec.windsurfing
Subject: 4Sale: NPryde RAFSpeed 5.9 & other stuff (CA)
Date: 31 Aug 92 20:45:01 GMT

Henrik's going home to Germany - so I'd like to sell most of my stuff.
The board is already gone. I also have in store:

NPryde RAFSpeed 5.9 Speedsail. 
No Cams - good to jibe. Carbon mast recommended (works much better 8-).
7 Battens, boom 1.75m, mast 4.85m. Ugly duckling, but worth its money.
Price idea: 150$. Good condition. Ask Jim Munro - he knows the sail.

NPryde RAFWave 3.7 Wavesail.
5 battens (one duo). Boom 1.35. Mast: as short as you have. Great for 
high power conditions. Good control in Jumps. Nice colors.
Price idea: 200$. Good condition. Ask me - I know the sail ... 8-) 

Cheers, Henrik

I'd also sell a paraglider, if you are interested (good for ridge soaring 
like Fort Funston).
From: kenb@vice.ICO.TEK.COM (Ken Berger)
Newsgroups: rec.windsurfing
Subject: Re: Lifejackets while windsurfing
Date: 25 Aug 92 22:49:18 GMT
Organization: Tektronix Inc., Beaverton, Or.

Be careful about wearing a PFD when wave sailing.
There may be times when you may need to dive out of the way of a big
crusher wave that is about to take your head off.

Depth in this case is your friend.
From: jimb@access.digex.com (Jim Brooking)
Newsgroups: rec.windsurfing
Subject: Re: Sailing Right-Of-Way
Date: 28 Aug 92 01:30:30 GMT
Organization: National Commitee to Keep Slower Traffic Right

In article <1992Aug27.184312.13864@SSD.intel.com> rogerc@ssd.intel.com (Roger Christal) writes:
>Last weekend, I witnessed a collision between two sailors at Maryhill.

Funny, ain't it?  The whole lake... And they can't keep away from 
one another.  8^)

>The courts recognize sailing right-of-way in regard
>to windsurfing!

I wouldn't recommend trying to get right-of-way from Redneck Yahoo
on his twin deisel 30 footer...  ;^)


>...continues to amaze me how many sailors think everyone else should stay
>out of their way, OR ELSE!

They probably drive like that, too.  8^(

>Just because you're in the right, DON'T FORCE IT.  Sometimes,
>giving up your rights is the best thing to do.

See "Redneck" comment. 

>
>Here's to safe sailing!

Drink...gulp.. Here here.
-- 
jimb@access.digex.com  | (Cage) 1991 323se     ZCP-710   |     Comus Road
Merry Land (MD) U.S.A. | (Bike) 1986 GSXR750    (sold)   |     ClarksBURG
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
But of course, I have three eyes.  I have clairvoyant paranoia.  -King Missile
From: pierre@media.mit.edu (Pierre St. Hilaire)
Newsgroups: rec.windsurfing
Subject: Re: Drysuit Repair (Was: Re: Drysuit recommendations?)
Date: 2 Sep 92 18:17:33 GMT
Organization: MIT Media Laboratory

In article <13488@pogo.wv.tek.com> lyndw@pogo.wv.tek.com (Lynd Wieman;685-3751;63-356;LP=A;P0HG) writes:
>In article <1992Aug31.142905.80738@kronos.com>, dan@kronos.com (Dan Driscoll) writes:
>|> Has anyone ever put a new zipper on a drysuit? Is it worth the time and effort
>|> it will take? Any real problems with attempting this? Where would you get such
>|> a zipper?

	Dan, I tried to answer you back by mail, but your daemon did
not like my mail, so I will answer on the newsgroup. You can get your
suit repaired at United Divers in Somerville, MA. They do not stock the
zippers, however.

					Pierre St Hilaire
					MIT Media Lab
Newsgroups: rec.windsurfing
From: noble@sj.ate.slb.com (Alan Noble)
Subject: Buddies (was lifejacket)
Reply-To: noble@sj.ate.slb.com (Alan Noble)
Organization: Schlumberger Technologies, San Jose, CA.
Date: Wed, 2 Sep 92 23:32:09 GMT

In article <1992Aug31.011355.20125@ultb.isc.rit.edu> cjb3701@ritvax.isc.rit.edu writes:
< stuff deleted >
>One thing people may be fooling themselves with is "buddy" sailing.  Sure your
>pals are all sailing at the same site but when you head out over the horizon,
>chances are they're thinking about their next jibe, NOT where you took off to!
>Unless you made specific "keep your eye on me" arrangements, I wouldn't rely
>too heavily on someone sailing out to find you....

I agree totally that is "optimistic" (read "foolish") in the extreme
to rely on a buddy to fish you out of the water when you bonk
yourself.  But that doesn't mean a buddy is useless.  The true value
of a buddy is at the end of the day, when SOMEONE realizes that the
sun is setting, the beers are getting warm, and you're still out on
the water.  At least SOMEONE knows you're missing and can call the
Coast Guard.

Alan
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
DOMAIN: noble@sj.ate.slb.com
UUCP:   {amdahl,decwrl,uunet}!sjsca4!noble
PHONE:  408-437-5331
MAIL:   Alan Noble, MS-930, Schlumberger Technologies, ATE Division,
	1601 Technology Drive, San Jose, CA 95110
From: hartman@fanatic.EBay.Sun.COM (Robert Hartman)
Newsgroups: rec.windsurfing
Subject: Re: Swimming back with your gear
Date: 1 Sep 1992 14:04:15 GMT
Organization: Sun Microsystems
Distribution: world
Reply-To: hartman@fanatic.EBay.Sun.COM
NNTP-Posting-Host: fanatic.ebay.sun.com

In article 320@am.dsir.govt.nz, srgxnbs@grv (Bruce Spedding) writes:
>In article <jeffb.1bdo@terapin.com>, jeffb@terapin.com (Jeffrey Bean) writes:
>Try releasing the downhaul, removing all the battens , releasing boom, and
>then rolloing the sail up on the mast and fastening the resulting mess to
>an 8'-9' board - drag from the mast is the least of your worries. The self
>rescue you describe is fine for long boards but is less than useless for
>short  boards. I haven't found anything better than backstroke yet ...
>
>Bruce
>

The only time I ever do any de-rigging to get back to shore is if I
have had my mast break.  Otherwise, wind or no wind, I keep my rig 
in tact for the paddle home.



Mast-is-broke scenario: Don't have time to even start talking about
all the ways to get back to shore, but if your mast is broke, you're
kind of de-rigged anyway!



The-damn-wind-died scenario:  I can sail my big stuff back to the beach
in about 2 knots of wind, but when it gets glassy, it's obviously time
to paddle...  I remove the rig AND base from the mast track so that I 
can lay on the board without getting a chest wound.  Position the rig
on the board with the clue away from the wind (if there is any wind),
mast base toward the nose, cambers rotated up away from the deck of 
the board, booms forward to almost the mast track.  Now you should be 
set to crawl up onto your board and lay between the sail and booms. 
The booms should be in the middle of your chest so that you can get a
reasonable stroke before your arm hits the boom.  So, you're in an
excellent paddling position with only the tip of the sail in the water.
you can make great time back to the beach.  If you were close to the
beach to start with, the backstroke method might be just as fast, 
cause the setup might take a minute or 2.  But if you have more than 
100 yds. or so, I would recommmend the technique above.  You'll be on
the beach, derigged, dry, with a beer in your hand by the time the 
swimmers get in!  Try it one day before the wind comes up.

Rob

P.S.  It's very important to swear a lot as you realize that you are going
to have to use this technique.  
Newsgroups: rec.windsurfing