HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: hough@seismo.gps.caltech.edu (Susan Hough)
Newsgroups: misc.kids
Subject: Re: Pain Relief in Labour: Ben's Reply
Summary: my vote on the subject
Date: 14 Sep 92 22:16:43 GMT
Organization: California Institute of Technology, Pasadena

In article <BuL224.2ru@unx.sas.com> sasmlb@pecos.unx.sas.com (Maria Moore) writes:
>In article <1992Sep14.175516.24413@elroy.jpl.nasa.gov> lauraf@classy.Jpl.Nasa.Gov (Laura Floom) writes:
>>>
>>>Thanks for bearing with me, and thanks especially to Michele Gaudreault, 
>>>Mikki Barry and minx for participating in the discussion. I too wonder if 
>>>the venom is focused on me because I'm male. Any comments?
>>
>>Nope, it was because of your lecturing. We have threads that deal with 
>>strangers who will come up to parents and start telling us how to do things.
>>I guess we dont take it well, and I am not sure we need to. If you want to
>>give info, you should be a little more tactful about it, or you run the
>>risk of not getting thru to people, just getting them angry.
>
>I stayed out as long as I could.....  I didn't view Ben's original posting as
>lecturing at all.  He was merely disputing someone's statement that was not true

I've stayed out of this also, but I finally realized why I was also
generally angered by Ben's post.  There have been huge swings in the
way that childbirth has been approached in this country, from 
natural-by-necessity, to knock-the-mother-out, and back to an appreciation 
for natural births.  What has been discussed at some length on this group,
though, is that the preference for natural (unmedicated/unassisted)
births has perhaps swung too far in the other direction--there are medications
available that have been shown to carry only minimal risk to the mother
and baby; medications that can prevent a woman from becoming delerious with
pain through the course of a long & difficult labor.  I would hazard 
a guess that every single woman who reads & posts to this group knows that all
medications & medical procedures carry with them some risk; the point
is that women should not made to feel like failures for choosing options
that all evidence suggests are very reasonable risks.  And in the midst
of all of this, Ben jumps in with a long (&, IMHO, preachy) posting
on the evils of all medications, a posting that ignores all of the
reasonable debate on the subject up to this point.

And as to whether or not the reaction has anything to do with the
gender of the poster, rest assured that I have been equally annoyed
by the I-had-an-unmedicated-40-hr-labor-aren't-I-wonderful postings
that I've seen from women.

Cheers,

Sue
Newsgroups: misc.kids
From: jbrindle@halcyon.com (Jennifer Brindle)
Subject: The Mommy Store
Organization: The 23:00 News and Mail Service
Date: Wed, 9 Sep 1992 21:21:57 GMT

Judy Tyrer's The Mommy Store is a great idea.  We've used something
similar on our three-year-old.  He has a Brio catalog and longed for
the new black engine with the coal car.  It's $20.  We said no at first,
then had the idea to make him "work" for it.  Since he had a bad habit
of not picking up his toys at the end of the day, we decided that was
his "work".  We discussed this with him and we all agreed that if he
picked up his toys at the end of each day for two weeks, we'd go get
the engine for him.  We chose two weeks because it was an expensive
engine and we explained that to him.  We made a two week "calendar"
out of construction paper and Xed off each day that he "worked".
Guess what?  At the end of two weeks, we marched into Imaginarium and
purchased the engine.  He slept with it for a week.

No, I don't think we were bribing him either.  And he knows that if
wants other Brio toys, he has to "work" for them, too.  Of course,
now that he's in the habit of picking up his toys, we need to find
some other "job" for him to do!

So far, he hasn't wanted anything badly enough to work for it again.

Jennifer
From: lynne@pacersoft.com (Lynne Chantler)
Newsgroups: misc.kids
Subject: Re: Names
Date: 15 Sep 92 15:36:13 GMT
X-UserAgent: Nuntius v1.1.1d7
X-XXDate: Tue, 15 Sep 92 16:42:48 GMT

In article <TIGGER.92Sep11233932@satyr.Sylvan.COM> Grace Sylvan,
tigger@satyr.Sylvan.COM writes:
>BTW, I hated my name 'Grace' as a kid - the only people I met named
>'Grace' were adults, and those were few and far between. I know I was
>just not living in the right area, I've heard it was/is? a very
>popular name with certain very religious ethnic groups.

I love 'old fashion' names.  My mother's mother, Grace, died when my
mother was very young.  So when I was thinking of names for my daughter
(yes, I knew it was a girl!) I thought that naming her Grace would be a
lovely gesture to my mother.

She will probably hate her name too at some point, but I also gave her
Elizabeth for a middle name and from that she should be able to come up
with some nickname that will suit her.  

Lynne (another name that was thought uncommon, but my very best friend is
Lynn too!)
From: janem@hpfcdc.fc.hp.com (Jane Marcus)
Date: Mon, 14 Sep 1992 19:05:42 GMT
Subject: Re: Crib recommendation wanted
Organization: HP Fort Collins, Co.
Newsgroups: misc.kids

My kids both learned very early to climb out of cribs and playpens.
I'll second Laura's experience that this tended to happen during
tantrums.  We transitioned our first kid to a bed at 18 months for
this reason.  Many kids are a bit more mellow than mine are :-) and can
stay in a crib for quite a long time, but there's no way to predict
how useful either cribs or playpens will be for mobile kids.

Jane Marcus
jane@apollo.hp.com
Xref: sparky misc.kids:23275 rec.arts.startrek.current:13025
From: kati@glnserv.UUCP (Lady Dragon)
Newsgroups: misc.kids,rec.arts.startrek.current
Subject: Re: Names
Date: Sat, 12 Sep 92 09:04:10 CDT
Organization: Vermi-net, Houston, Tx. 77098

91babik@gw.wmich.edu (Lisamarie Gemma Babik) writes:

> Oh, I don't know.  It's a problem to have a name that's too unusual.  It's
> a problem to have a name that's too common.
>
> In my case, I was born a Lisa.  There were a buzillion Lisas here already,
> ________Lisamarie "Rifa the Insane" Babik_________91babik@gw.wmich.edu_______

When I was in high school, we had a girl in our class who's name was
Mary Ann Lisa. The teachers never knew if she had put her last name first
(as requested on many of the forms) or not.

* * email address: nuchat!xcluud!glnserv!kati * Houston, Texas, USA, Earth * *




Newsgroups: misc.kids
From: staffan@ca.serum.kodak.com (Kenneth Staffan (x37507))
Subject: Re: Warning kids about strangers?
Organization: Clinical Products Division, Eastman Kodak Company
Date: Fri, 11 Sep 1992 18:31:29 GMT

>>Our son is only 18 mos, but our friends have 4-yr-old twins.  Another thing
>>that they have done (besides talking with the kids) is make sure that they
>>can both recite their names, address, phone number (including area code!),
>>and parent's names.
>
>At least in the US, phone numbers (seven digits) fit the tune to
>"Twinkle, Twinkle Little Star" (which is also the tune to "ABC" and "Baa
>Baa Black Sheep" - somebody had a good agent).  This helps kids learn
>them.

Depends on the combination of numbers.  Some play "Mary Had a Little
Lamb", others don't play anything recognizable.

Ken
---
staffan@serum.kodak.com
From: cathl@odin (Catherine Lyman)
Newsgroups: misc.kids
Subject: Re: NutraSweet (Was: Re: Caffeine during Pregnancy)
Date: 11 Sep 92 18:37:13 GMT
Organization: Informix Software, Inc.

I drank one diet soda ( with nutrasweet) each working day
during my first pregnancy. My son is completely healthy. In 
fact, the pediatrician commented on his health and vigor at
his day-one checkup. During my second pregancy, I didn't have
as much, and my daughter was/is just as healthy as my son.

I remember wanting to eat a real hoagie one night. I managed,
after a serious search, to find a place in San Francisco that
made real hoagies. Now THAT was probably more detrimental than
the nutrasweet!

My sister thought I was crazy to drink the stuff. I did avoid
caffeine and the rest of the stuff you aren't supposed to have.
From: dsegelho@oasys.dt.navy.mil (Diane Segelhorst)
Newsgroups: misc.kids
Subject: Re: Ante-natal vitamins, other ravings
Date: 15 Sep 92 16:57:20 GMT
Reply-To: dsegelho@oasys.dt.navy.mil (Diane Segelhorst)
Organization: Annapolis Detachment, CDNSWC

In misc.kids, equacken@encore.com (Eric E. Quackenbush) writes:
>    My wife took prenatals during her pregnancy, first one.  We won't
>pay the outrageous prices the next time.  This is why:
>
>One of the bottles we got, you could see through the perscription label
>and there was an ingrediants label by the manufaturer under it.  With
>much diligence I got the label off and compared it to K-Mart's Centrum look
>alikes.  Except for calcium and iron which my wife already took over the
>counter supplements for anyway, the prenatals were the same or slightly
>lower than K-Mart's.  The prenatals also were missing alot of the minerals
>the over the counter ones had.

Well I did the same thing - compared them to my generic one-a-day plus
iron and calcium.  The prenatal vitamins are slightly higher in some
things, same in others, much higher in iron and calcium.  But getting
them from my HMO only costs me $3 per hundred, and the generic over
the counter ones are about twice that.  So I intend to keep getting
the prenatals for as long as I can!

Diane Segelhorst
dsegelho@oasys.dt.navy.mil
Mom to Brad, 2.1 years, and Carrie, 3 months
Newsgroups: misc.kids
From: judy@locus.com (Judy Leedom Tyrer)
Subject: Re: Impact of the absent father
Organization: Locus Computing Corporation, Los Angeles, California
Date: Wed, 09 Sep 1992 20:13:11 GMT

In article <Bu9tK7.CBJ@unx.sas.com> cates@cherokee.unx.sas.com (Claire Cates) writes:
>
>It goes both ways folks.  I am trying to get custody and my ex2b is
>using everything in the legal system to drain me financially and 
>emotionally.  The real problem that everyone needs to attack is the
>legal system, it can be used to abuse either parent.   The one with
>the dirtier lawyers gets the furthest.
>

Well, I've held my peace as long as I can and I know that I will generate
some flames, so please send them to /dev/null as I am immune.  

The REAL PROBLEM that everyone needs to attack is the complete lack of 
commitment people in our society are capable of making.  We are a society
of little babies who scream and whine whenever things aren't going our way.
We jump into bed with narry a moment's thought and then piss and moan when
asked to be responsible for our behavior.  Hey, we don't have to worry.  Good
old Uncle Sam will clean up our mess.  Hey, and if Uncle Sam were
reasonable, I wouldn't be so miserable.  "It's not MY fault!"  

If anything, I think the legal system should become even more antagonistic
to couples who are unable and unwilling to live up to their commitments both
to each other and to their children.  It SHOULD hurt like hell and you 
SHOULD feel raped.  Because that is exactly what is happening to your children.
Their lives are being uprooted and torn apart.  They are being used as weapons
in the war between ex-spouses.  They are being abused and abandoned.  

The only way to solve this whole custodial parent/ child support/ joint
custody nightmare is to get rid of no-fault divorce and require couples to
live up to their marriage contracts the same way we make businesses live up
to their contracts.  If you go bankrupt, then the courts take over.  But 
people who are bankrupt don't have the right to complain to the courts about 
how they are being bailed out.  They just have to accept the bail-out in 
whatever form it takes.  And maybe, just maybe, next time they'll know enough 
to live up to their commitments.

(And before any abused spouse stories come out, let me repeat that the 
operative term in the paragraph above is NO-FAULT divorce.  Spousal abuse
along with infidelity are reasons for FAULT divorce.  FAULT divorce is easy.
The victim gets everything.)


-- 
Judy Leedom Tyrer

"The road to hell is paved with good intentions"	- William Blake
From: nola@cats.ucsc.edu (Nola Van Vugt)
Newsgroups: misc.kids
Subject: Re: Condoms... was Impact of the absent father
Date: 9 Sep 92 16:24:29 GMT
Organization: University of California; Santa Cruz
NNTP-Posting-Host: am.ucsc.edu


In article <YefWBjy0hXua0sgJ8V@andrew.cmu.edu> sb3t+@andrew.cmu.edu (Shirl G. Grant) writes:
>>I'm sure this is not the place to bring this up ...but what the hell.
>>So something I've always wondered about is - Why does using a condom
>>constitute safe sex?  If sperm can sneak by, can't the HIV virus?

I was always under the impression that "safe sex" referred to the use
of a "safe", an archaic term for a condom, not the inherent lack of
danger in the activity.
-nvv
From: dlin@weber.ucsd.edu (Diane Lin)
Newsgroups: misc.kids
Subject: Re: Caffeine during Pregnancy
Summary: jury still out on Nutrasweet?
Keywords: how much?
Date: 10 Sep 92 05:10:32 GMT
Organization: University of California, San Diego
NNTP-Posting-Host: weber.ucsd.edu

In article <51tp02EA21co01@JUTS.ccc.amdahl.com> lmn00@thundercd.amdahl.com (Linda Newell) writes:
>My doctor said that the equivalent of one cup of coffee a day
>(2 cokes) would be OK.  
[...]
>Also, my doctor said that nutra-
>sweet would not be a problem.

I thought that the jury was still out on Nutrasweet, because it
hasn't been on the market long enough to see if there are any bad
effects with it.  (Look how long saccharine was around before any
carcinogenic connection was found...)  

Back to caffeine, I cut down from my normal 5-6 cups of regular
coffee per day to 1 cup of decaf in the morning when I was pregnant.  
When I found that my son wasn't affected by the coffee I drank, I 
increased my intake to 2 cups a day of decaf.  When he weaned
himself at 16 months, I went back to regular coffee in the morning,
but I only drink 2 cups--it's all I have time for :-).  

-- 
Diane C. Lin			"Live now; make *now* always the
dlin@weber.ucsd.edu	         most precious time.  Now will 
(Dylan's mom, 21 months)	 never come again." (ST:TNG)
Newsgroups: misc.kids
From: shafer@rigel.dfrf.nasa.gov (Mary Shafer)
Subject: Re: what do people pay for daycare?
Organization: NASA Dryden, Edwards, Cal.
Date: Tue, 8 Sep 1992 15:23:59 GMT

Our on-site, not-for-profit daycare prices are;
        Infants         $127.50
        Toddlers         123.50
        Twos             112.50
        Threes           101.00
        Fours             94.00 

A two-week-equivalent security deposit is also required.  There's also
a $50 enrollment fee.  There are 8 infant slots, 12 toddler, 12 twos,
16 threes, and 16 fours.

We also have a priority for enrollment, with NASA employees first and
contractors second.  The military and others will be last.  (The
military already has a day care center here.)

NASA has paid for the building and there have been a lot of
fundraisers for the furnishings--most of them revolving around food
(bake sales, See's candy for Easter, etc).  Our center is named after
an employee who was very active in getting it started.  She died in an
airliner accident while traveling on duty.  It's the Judy Janisse
Child Development Center.

--
Mary Shafer  DoD #0362 KotFR NASA Dryden Flight Research Facility, Edwards, CA
shafer@rigel.dfrf.nasa.gov                    Of course I don't speak for NASA
 "There's no kill like a guns kill." LCDR "Hoser" Satrapa, gunnery instructor
                       "A kill is a kill."  Anonymous
From: grace@cruzio.santa-cruz.ca.us
Newsgroups: misc.kids
Subject: Family Bed
Keywords: Family bed, co-family sleeping
Date: Fri, 04 Sep 92 00:18:38 PDT
Reply-To: grace@cruzio.santa-cruz.ca.us





        I just read Tine Thevenin's book The Family Bed which
        glowingly describes the practicality, healthfulness, and
        psychological benefits of co-family sleeping.
        
        I would be interested to hear (e-mail) from anyone who
        has had their children sleep with them regularly past
        the age of, let us say, one year old.
        
        Do you think co-family sleeping 
         - made your family closer
         - reduced the incidence of nightmares in your children
         - "spoiled" your children
         - made your children more secure or independent?
        
        When did they ask for their own bed or bedroom?
        Is there any reason you'd recommend against a family bed?
        
        Please Please Please do NOT e-mail me if you haven't had 
        your children in bed with you regularly past one year old.
        
        I will post a summary if there is interest.  Due to the
        fairly controversial nature of the subject, I'll keep
        all responses anonymous.
        
        Thanks,
        Grace McKenna             grace@cruzio.santa-cruz.ca.us
                                  or ..netcom!cruzio!grace


-- 

Newsgroups: misc.kids
From: clare@nynexst.com (Clare Chu)
Subject: Re: Booster seats in aircraft
Organization: Nynex Science and Technology
Distribution: na
Date: Tue, 15 Sep 92 12:43:04 GMT

In article <1417@systech.com> leynette@systech.com (Leynette Wissinger) writes:
>In article <18r9rgINN5s0@hp-sdd.sdd.hp.com> milt@sdd.hp.com (Milt Fisher) writes:
>>his own seat for the flight.  There were no complaints from the flight
>>attendants, but they also didn't seem to be terribly accomodating.  I had
>>heard how nice flight attendants treat children (maybe a thing of the past),
>>but it seemed that we were just tolerated.  
>My experiences on United aircraft have been just the opposite.  My son, Kai,
>has flown twice (round-trips) on long flights to Hawaii.   The first when 
>he was 4 months and again at 8 months and he was pampered by the flight
>attendants both times.  They volunteered to hold him and walk around the
>plane with him, gave him pilot's wings, etc.

  Obviously depends on the temperament of the crew.  You can be sure that
  this wouldn't happen on a plane from New York City.  On my last flight,
  they held us "hostage" on the ground for TWO hours while working on
  a mechanical problem, did not serve drinks, just giving people paper
  cups of water, did not turn on the air conditioner and kept on telling
  people to stay in their seats.  I was WISHING for at least the presence
  of 10 toddlers to drive them crazy (unfortunately there wasn't a toddler
  on board).  Then when we were about to take off, they said, "This
  plane is going to Chicago O'Hare, if anyone isn't going to Chicago
  GET OFF NOW!"  One man decided to switch seats and the stewardess
  blared "Sir, Sit Down!!!"  Then, "Thank you for your cooperation."
  Yeah, right.  Where were those hell-raising toddlers when we needed them?
  I left mine at home, so what's your excuse?  New York City, right...
From: swain@cs.umd.edu (Barbara Swain)
Newsgroups: misc.kids
Subject: funny things they say (3 yrs)
Date: 14 Sep 92 19:22:43 GMT
Organization: U of Maryland, Dept. of Computer Science, Coll. Pk., MD 20742


	My father-in-law was watching my daughter (3YO Sharon) and reported
the following conversation when I picked her up.  He and my husband are real
punsters and *really* enjoyed the re-telling of the conversation.

Grandpa:  Where's your head?
Sharon: [Points at head]
G: That's right.  Where's your stomach?
S: [Points to a more or less accurate place]
G: That's right.  Where's your liver?
S: I don't have a liver. [Translation: I've never heard of a liver]
G: [Laughs]  Where are your lungs?
S: [Points appropriately]
G: That's right.  Did you know you have 2 lungs?  What else do 
	you have 2 of?
S: Hands.  [Holds them up]
G: That's right.  How about eyes?
S: [Nods]
G: Right.  Do you have 2 ears?
S: [Nods]
G: Right.  Do you have 2 kidneys?
S: But grown-ups have 2 knees too.
G: [Falls on the ground laughing]

	I think we still need to explain to the poor child what kidneys are.

					Barbara Swain <swain@cs.umd.edu>
Newsgroups: misc.kids
From: 6310550@LMSC5.IS.LMSC.LOCKHEED.COM
Subject: creepy crawlers... where to purchase them ??
Organization: Lockheed Missiles & Space Company, Inc.
Date: Mon, 14 Sep 92 22:04:23 GMT


I got a magazine in the mail last week that had "Creepy Crawlers"
for sale.  It comes with a little gizmo to "cook" them in, the
molds and some extra GOOP.  It was my favorite toy when I was a
kid & I was thrilled to see them coming back.

Now for the bad news :(   My husband threw the magazine out before
I got a chance to order it...  Does anybody know where I order these ?
I don't remember which magazine it was in (I get about 30 of them a
month).

Thanks in advance,
Deb
Newsgroups: misc.kids
From: lauraf@classy.Jpl.Nasa.Gov (Laura Floom)
Subject: Re: Pain Relief in Labour: Ben's Reply
Organization: Jet Propulsion Laboratory, Pasadena, CA
Date: Mon, 14 Sep 1992 17:55:16 GMT

>
>Thanks for bearing with me, and thanks especially to Michele Gaudreault, 
>Mikki Barry and minx for participating in the discussion. I too wonder if 
>the venom is focused on me because I'm male. Any comments?
>

Nope, it was because of your lecturing. We have threads that deal with 
strangers who will come up to parents and start telling us how to do things.
I guess we dont take it well, and I am not sure we need to. If you want to
give info, you should be a little more tactful about it, or you run the
risk of not getting thru to people, just getting them angry.

Laura Floom


Newsgroups: misc.kids
From: reid@metis.tti.com (Reid Kneeland)
Subject: Re: Warning kids about strangers?
Organization: Transaction Technology Inc.
Date: Fri, 11 Sep 1992 14:32:11 GMT

In article <1992Sep10.173438.12829@clpd.kodak.com> staffan@ca.serum.kodak.com (Kenneth Staffan (x37507)) writes:
>>What is the appropriate age to start talking to children about
>>strangers?
>
>Our son is only 18 mos, but our friends have 4-yr-old twins.  Another thing
>that they have done (besides talking with the kids) is make sure that they
>can both recite their names, address, phone number (including area code!),
>and parent's names.

At least in the US, phone numbers (seven digits) fit the tune to
"Twinkle, Twinkle Little Star" (which is also the tune to "ABC" and "Baa
Baa Black Sheep" - somebody had a good agent).  This helps kids learn
them.

=====================================================================
Reid Kneeland
reid@tti.com  (that's MISTER reid@tti.com to you!)
Transaction Technology Inc., Santa Monica, CA, USA (310) 450-9111 x2499
The opinions expressed above do not necessarily etc etc...

Never trust a man who can count to 1,023 on his fingers.
From: vrs0@bunny.gte.com (V. Stern)
Newsgroups: misc.kids
Subject: Diaper Rash
Date: 10 Sep 92 13:30:45 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: GTEL

My son has had a persistent diaper rash around his anal area for the past 
two weeks.  He is not normally disposed to rashes, but this one will not 
go away.  I was using Nystatin, but it didn't really help, so I stopped.  
I've been using Balmex every time I change him.  I haven't called the ped 
because I know what he will say - try to keep the area uncovered as much 
as possible (ha,ha), use the Balmex, etc.  It started as a small pimply 
rash, looking like a yeast infection, which is why I was using the 
Nystatin, but when it didn't help I stopped because I remember the ped 
telling me that it is a topical steroid and thins the skin a little.  Now 
it is bleeding a little at changing time.  The poor little thing couldn't 
sit in the tub last night because he said it hurt his bottom.  Anymore 
suggestions or is it time to finally call the doctor?

Vanessa R. Stern
vrs0@bunny.gte.com
Newsgroups: misc.kids