HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: roger@phoenix.Princeton.EDU (Roger Lustig)
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
Subject: Re: JOHN CAGE
Date: 22 Aug 92 03:55:24 GMT
Organization: Princeton University
Originator: news@nimaster

In article <1992Aug22.034239.4920@uniwa.uwa.edu.au> diarmuid@uniwa.uwa.edu.au (Diarmuid Pigott) writes:
>roger@phoenix.Princeton.EDU (Roger Lustig) writes:
>: You're beginning to catch on!  Cage was interested in removing
>: philosophy from music where possible. 

>Absolute b*llsh*t.

>Cage was about employing different philosophies. He would be the last
>person in the world to insist on a value-free aproach. His zen-ism is
>the essence of his music.

Care to explain that?  I'm not sure that all that much of Cage's music
was really Zen-influenced.  4'33", perhaps, and some other works from
the 50's, but remember that we're talking about well over half a century
of music.

Besides, in at least one sense, Zen is an anti-philosophy, not on the
same plane as other philosophies.

>: All those years of Aristotle and
>: Plato and Kant and Nietzsche and Kierkegaard and so on needed some
>: serious stripping away.

>Your selective use of philosophers shows you subscribed to the "Boy's Own
>Book of Music and Philosophy" (available for a newsstand near you in 26
>fortnightly extracts - leatherette binders available on request).

Subscribed to it?  I *translated* it!

(No, seriously; how many was I supposed to list?  Also, Aristotle is the
odd man out on that list; I actually included him for Brian's
benefit...)

>Unfortunately since the series is a reprint of the one put out in
>Stuttgart in 1890, it avoids messy people like Wittgenstein, Ayer, or
>Marx. 

Well, Cage didn't like breathing that rarefied Ayer.

As for Marx, he had precious little effect on music, and what Marxists
were saying about music throughout most of Cage's career didn't
generally matter too much, certainly not to him.  I'm not sure how he'd
have stripped it away...


Wittgenstein, on the other hand....no, wait. That was his brother.

Seriously, where do you fit Ayer in with Cage's music, or, conversely,
where do you see it excluded?

Roger
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
From: steve@fid.morgan.com (Steve Apter)
Subject: Re: "Nunc Dimitis" & "Tinker, Tailor, Soldier, Spy"
Organization: Morgan Stanley & Co., New York, NY
Date: Thu, 13 Aug 1992 00:58:20 GMT

In article <1992Aug12.225156.1829@ccu.umanitoba.ca> feld@ccu.umanitoba.ca (Michael Feld) writes:
>Is the "Nunc Dimitis" sufficiently classical to excuse a plea for help
>in finding a copy?  That is, the "Nunc Dimitis" that accompanied the
>televised treatment of le Carre's "Tinker, Tailor, etc."?

I believe the composer is Geoffrey Burgon, and, if memory serves,
there are two available recordings, one on EMI with Richard Hickox.
Of course, memory might not be serving, and this could be lousy
information.

>I'd really welcome the sort of data my local record store requires
>before it will order me a copy: publisher, disc number, Canadian
>distributor, composer, singer.

But why not look it up in Opus?  Or better yet, find another
record store.  With this kind of attitude, I don't imagine they'll
be around too long.

>Thanks for your indulgence.
>-- 
>Michael Feld                         | E-mail:  <feld@ccu.umanitoba.ca>
>Dept. of Philosophy                  | FAX:     (204) 261-0021
>University of Manitoba               | Voice:   (204) 474-9136
>Winnipeg, MB, R3T 2M8, Canada	                     

It is a pretty piece, isn't it?


Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
From: le01167@portal.lasc.lockheed.com (Ron Nadel (x2025))
Subject: Re: SEARCH Help request
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41    
Organization: Lockheed Aeronautical Systems Co. - Rye Canyon
Distribution: usa
Date: Thu, 13 Aug 92 18:04:11 GMT

In article <13AUG199208573001@portal.lasc.lockheed.com>, le01167@portal.lasc.lockheed.com (Ron Nadel (x2025)) writes...

>2)  I recently heard on a classical music station a newish album of what I 
>think was Jamaican music (sounded like mostly a female group).  The music 
>greatly reminded me of the Bulgarian style of singing with many-part 
>harmony and a thick texture, but with a little something else that 
>distinguished it from Bulgarian (great description, I know 8^\)


I neglected to mention that the album title may be something like 

   __________ Island


Thanks - Ron
From: brad@buck.viewlogic.com (Bradford Kellogg)
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
Subject: Re: Glazunov
Date: 12 Aug 92 19:26:26 GMT
Organization: Viewlogic Systems, Inc.
Originator: brad@buck


In article <1992Aug11.230437.15126@CSD-NewsHost.Stanford.EDU>, spg@Xenon.Stanford.EDU (Stephen P. Guthrie) writes:
|> I'd like to ask the net about Glazunov. Is his music worth exploring?
|> I've heard a couple of the ballets (The Seasons) and the Violin Concerto,
|> but none of the symphonies, quartets, etc. He seems to be a neglected composer.
|> 
Glazunov is somewhat of a post-romantic, living into the year 1936, and 
inheriting much of his inspiration from his older compatriots, the Russian 
5: Balakirev, Rimsky-Korsakov, Borodin, Mussorgsky, Cui (Cui, by the way,
was primarily a critic, and not a composer, which may explain why you never
hear any of his music!). Glazunov's music is generally not considered as 
important as that of his elders, but it is wonderful music all the same. 

He had a remarkable musical memory, rivaling Mozart, apparently. If I 
remember the story correctly, the Overture to the opera Prince Igor by 
Borodin would be forever lost if not for Glazunov. It seems Borodin
composed the overture only in his head, and never wrote it down. He
did, however, play it once on the piano for a group of friends, which
included Glazunov. After this one hearing, Glazunov went home and wrote
down the whole piece, later orchestrating it.

Glazunov wrote quite a few really neat orchestral pieces, including
Finnish Fantasy (I'm not quite sure if that is the right name) and 
Stenka Razin, a tone poem about some pirate along the Volga. These
are very colorful and well orchestrated, much fun, and well worth
listening to. Check out these and anything else you can find. It's
all good stuff.

Ciao
From: maverick@cs.berkeley.edu (Vance Maverick)
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
Subject: Re: Bach and religious feelings
Date: 21 Aug 92 17:45:00 GMT
Distribution: world
Organization: CS Division, UC Berkeley
NNTP-Posting-Host: mahogany.cs.berkeley.edu

In article <dcjybvj@rpi.edu>, mccomt@aix.rpi.edu (Todd M. Mccomb) writes:
|> 
|> Facts are boring.

Do you have a reference for this claim?

	Vance
From: rwd4f@poe.acc.Virginia.EDU (Rob Dobson)
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
Subject: Re: WEBERN
Date: 13 Aug 92 19:46:47 GMT
Article-I.D.: murdoch.1992Aug13.194647.3869
Organization: University of Virginia

In article <eqJgPB2w164w@sys6626.bison.mb.ca> al@sys6626.bison.mb.ca (Haus Der Luge) writes:
> 
>Does anybody here have the BOULEZ/WEBERN box set?
> 
>I understand it's complete save for WEBERN's early pieces that did not 
>have opus numbers.

Yes, it is complete. We have it here at the music library, on Sony Classical
SM3K 45845. Im not much for comparing quality of performance/recording with
other editions of the same work (there are so many pieces I want to hear, 
i cant hear 1 version of all of them, let alone 2 or 3), but suffice it
to say that I dig it, and if you like Webern, youll probably dig it too.
We got it for $28 which means you could probably expect to pay $30-35 for it,
steep, but then again it IS 3 discs....

-rob
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
From: jrussell@unlinfo.unl.edu (john russell)
Subject: More wedding music
Organization: University of Nebraska - Lincoln
Date: Fri, 21 Aug 1992 16:49:45 GMT

This is more anecdotal than an an actual recommendation, but I thought
it was worth sharing:

At our wedding, we had a great church with great acoustics and the
best organ in town, a good organist, lots of musical friends who
were willing to sing in the choir, and a pastor we hated (he was a
real jerk, but I digress). Because this was an ELC Lutheran church, we
were told that no non-liturgical music would be permitted for the
ceremony.

So.

The wedding programs (or whatever you call them) listed the Widor
Toccata as the recessional. However, as the ceremony concluded, the
male members of the choir broke into a four-part rendition of 
"Happy Trails" (which was followed by the Widor). The pastor was
livid, but couldn't say anything because everyone else thought it
was a great touch. My father commented that it would probably be the
most memorable part of the whole affair.

Anyway,...

Other music we used:
Faure's "Cantique de Jean Racine" (in French) for the processional;
"Alleluia" from Mozart's "Exultate Jubilate" (sp?)
   (the pastor actually asked what the words to this piece were!);
and the ubiquitous "Lord's Prayer" by Malotte (gaak).

I recommend the Faure highly if you are lucky enough (or rich enough)
to have a choir.

jr

Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
From: nkulkarn@mipos2.intel.com ()
Subject: Wanted ...
Keywords: Beethoven, Mozart, Liszt, Chopin
Reply-To: nkulkarn@mipos2.intel.com ()
Organization: Microprocessor Products Group, Intel Corp., Santa Clara, CA
Date: Thu, 20 Aug 1992 20:02:14 GMT

Hello, everyone. I am looking for any GIF or BMP images of Beethoven,
Mozart, Liszt or Chopin. I would be grateful if anybody can help me
get them. Thank you.

- Nitin

(nkulkarn@mipos2.intel.com)

                                      ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
                                      "BEWARE, EVILDOERS, WHEREVER YOU ARE !!"
                                                      - The Masked Avenger
                                      ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
From: jeffw@or.credence.com (Jeff Winslow)
Subject: Re: Wedding music suggestions?
Organization: Credence Systems Corp. Beaverton, OR
Date: Thu, 20 Aug 1992 01:40:45 GMT

In article <1992Aug18.050301.29629@oct17.dfe.dec.com> chaban@fortsc.enet.dec.com (Ed Chaban) writes:

>Did I say that?  I simply said that our choice of the Lohengrin March
>was spiritual in nature.  In spite of what amounts to a "Wagner trivia
>question"  This piece says "Here comes the bride" to the biggest segment
>of the population.  My wife and I have heard it played at numerous ceremonies
>and we wanted to hear it at ours.  If someone was insulted, I think the
>decision to put them on the guest list was "inappropriate".

Would you mind not being so hypersensitive about your choice of wedding
music in public? Roger is a smart guy, but that's no reason why you should
care so much, as you have extravagantly demonstrated, what he thinks of it.

>(Proceeds to go into tirade {deleted} and presumes I'm unaware of what a
> jerk Wagner was and faults me for not reading his postings in his defense
>  - Some of us work for a living!)

Then why are you wasting your time here?

					Jeff Winslow
					still the oracular Oregonian
From: saqx@vax5.cit.cornell.edu
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
Subject: Help!  How to print GIF files?
Date: 18 Aug 92 20:13:56 EDT
Distribution: rec
Organization: Cornell University

Hello,
This is hardly the group to post to with a question of this nature, but 
the GIF of Neeme Jarvi reminded me that I don't know how to use these
GIF files.  Would somebody email me explaining how to print them on a
screen?  Thanks in advance.
-- 
##############################################################
#                                                            #
#  RNJX@vax5.cit.cornell.edu                                 #             
#  Jeff Wilson                                               #
#  Cornell University                                        #
#  Department of Chemistry                                   #
#  --SF author in the making--                               #
#                                                            #
#  Is what you're living for worth dying for?                #
#                                                            #
##############################################################
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
From: roger@phoenix.Princeton.EDU (Roger Lustig)
Subject: Re: A quick guide to different musical periods...
Originator: news@nimaster
Organization: Princeton University
Date: Wed, 19 Aug 1992 13:40:03 GMT

In article <1992Aug18.222427.5069@cco.caltech.edu> rmw@cco.caltech.edu (Richard M. Wilson) writes:
>
>In Article 32943, steyn@cs.rochester.edu (Gavin Steyn) writes:
>>  I remember reading somewhere (can someone fill in the blank here?) an 
>>  easy way to tell the different styles of music apart... 
>[rest deleted]
>
>The reference is CVLTVRE Made Stvpid by Tom Weller.  The complete paragraph is
>
>   The progress of musical structure through the development of counterpoint,
>   chromaticism, etc., is a difficult subject.  You need only remember a few 
>   principles.  Baroque music goes "Dah DAH dah dah DAH dah dah"; Rococo
>   music goes "Tweedle-eedle ta ta TA."  The Classical period is characterized
>   by a lot of "DUM dum diddle diddle DUM" stuff, while Romantic music goes
>   "La-a-a LA-A-A-A la-a-a la-a-a-a-a-a-a-a." 
>

And the damn thing is, we know which piece he means!

Roger (ladada dah dum, dadeedah)
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
Subject: Re: Opera miscastings (Re: Immortal opera recordings)
From: Ken Sherrill <KSSHC@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Date: Thursday, 13 Aug 1992 20:11:05 EDT
Distribution: usa
Organization: City University of New York/ University Computer Center

I want to follow up on a few negatives that, to my mind, are undeserved.

1. I didn't like Ramon Vinay's Bartolo either. I believe Vinay began as a
baritone, transposed up to tenor for a glorious career, and (after no longer
being able to negotiate tenor tessitura) returned to being a baritone. The
bass/baritone distinction was not, in Rossini;s day, what it now is. Many other
baritones, including Renato Capecchi and Louis Quilico, have tried to extend
their careers by singing Dr. Bartolo.

2. My understanding is that Irene Dalis undertook Isolde at Jess Thomas'
request/urging after their joint success in Parsifal. As Jon Conrad described
Zinka Milanov's advice to Christa Ludwig, mezzo Isoldes endanger their career.
All I've heard of Dalis' San Francisco Isolde is the Liebestod, which I found
quite lovely.

3. Barry Morrell was no great artist and he had frequent pitch problems, but
the voice itself could be quite lovely. There aren't many lirico spinto tenors
around today as good as Morrell was in his average performances. He could sus-
tain a lyric line better than Richard Leech, for example, who sings in roughly
the same fach, but who is much more stentorian.
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
Subject: Re: Opera Film Fantasy (OFF)
From: Ken Sherrill <KSSHC@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Date: Tuesday, 18 Aug 1992 19:23:54 EDT
Organization: City University of New York/ University Computer Center

I don't think Dan Quayle is quite right for Siegfried. Of course, Anna Russell
says Siegfried is very young and very strong and very handsome ... and verrry
stupid....Say, maybe we've found the right fach for Dan-o.

As to Schwarzenegger's Fafner: he'd be the ideal foil for Mr. T as Fasolt and
Sylvester Stallone as Donner.
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
From: roger@phoenix.Princeton.EDU (Roger Lustig)
Subject: Re: JOHN CAGE
Originator: news@nimaster
Organization: Princeton University
Date: Sun, 23 Aug 1992 03:21:05 GMT

In article <1992Aug23.030649.6798@uniwa.uwa.edu.au> diarmuid@uniwa.uwa.edu.au (Diarmuid Pigott) writes:
>How could I have missed such a Jack Benny straight line? 

>roger@phoenix.Princeton.EDU (Roger Lustig) writes:
>:  Cage was interested in removing
>: philosophy from music where possible.

>Why did he drop the music instead of the philosophy? :-)

'cause it made a nicer thud when it hit the floor.

Next?

R
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
From: lampson@tellabs.com (Dave Lampson)
Subject: Re: Telefunken records
Keywords: Telefunken
Organization: Tellabs, Inc., IL
Date: Fri, 21 Aug 1992 22:20:25 GMT

In article <1992Aug20.163841.29539@den.mmc.com> sims@possum.den.mmc.com (John Sims) writes:
>jhill@gallstone.bucknell.edu (HILL, S JACKSON) writes:
>
>>I am trying to track down a Telefunken recording Tel 6.28575. [...]
>
>Along these lines, if Telefunken is still in business, do they have CDs
>of earlier works?  I have an old, worn LP set of JSB organ works,
>entitled "Dal Alte Werk".  One of my favorite sets, but it has
>deteriorated to the point that I can hardly bear to listen to it
>anymore.  The local CD shop has a very limited set of JSB organ stuff,
>and doesn't even come close to the Telefunken set.  Any ideas or
>suggestions?  


I neglected to mention (just plain forgot!) in my earlier post on this 
topic that many of the Telefunken recordings were also sold to Capriccio.
The "Das Alte Werk" set of Bach organ recordings (there were several) are
all available, I think.  Check out a current copy of Opus for the exact
recording you have.  Your local store should be able to order it for you.

-- 

Dave
lampson@tellabs.com

For detailed lists of Recommended Classical CDs, Basic Repertoire and Buying
Guide access cs.uwp.edu (131.210.1.4) by anonymous FTP, or email me for info.

Contribute to the rec.music.classical biography project!  Email me your bio!
Organization: University of Maryland at Baltimore
Date: Friday, 21 Aug 1992 13:03:41 EST
From: Robert Haskins <RHASKINS@UMAB.BITNET>
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
Subject: Re: Telefunken records
 <92233.174232RHASKINS@UMAB.BITNET> <l99vj4INNbsj@news.bbn.com>

Jonathan Delatzky writes:
I'm almost certain that the Chapuis Bach cycle on Valois is the same one once

I'm almost as certain that it's not.  I have the Valois, and the recordings
don't sound the same as my memory of the Telefunken ones.  In fact,
I bought the Valois thinking they _were_ the same, and was disappointed.
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
From: ted@dgbt.doc.ca (Ted Grusec)
Subject: Re: John Cage
Organization: The Communications Research Centre
Date: Fri, 14 Aug 92 03:37:36 GMT

In article <1992Aug14.003043.25458@nuscc.nus.sg> smoliar@iss.nus.sg (stephen smoliar) writes:
>In article <92226.081455RHASKINS@UMAB.BITNET> Robert Haskins
><RHASKINS@UMAB.BITNET> writes:
>> National coverage has been miniscule (a piece on National
>>Public Radio, someone told me), but nothing on networks that I saw.
>>
>I took my usual half-hour dose of CNN International when I came home yesterday
>afternoon.  There was no mention at all.  However, my wife heard the BBC news
>at 4 PM;  and they deemed it worth reporting.  A Singapore Broadcasting
>announcer is supposed to be calling me in about an hour to record a few
>minutes worth of statement.  It suddenly hit me that I may be the only
>person currently on this island to have performed his work here (since
>Margaret Leng Tan is probably back in New York).

The CBC (Canadian Broadcasting Corporation) reported Cage's death on
the flagship evening radio news at 6 p.m. Wed, shortly after the event
happened. I was disappointed that they did not follow it up with a
program on Cage in one of the arts coverage programs which follow that
news broadcast. The next day (Thursday), however, they did do just
such a broadcast - a half hour appreciation of his music and his
place.

-- 
==========================================================================
Ted Grusec    Communications Research Centre    (Govt. of Canada, DOC)
 3701 Carling Ave., Ottawa, Ont.K2H 8S2, CANADA  Internet: ted@dgbt.doc.ca
  Compuserve: 73607,1576  (613) 998 2762   Fax (613) 993 8657
From: arthurj@equinox.unr.edu (Art Johnson)
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
Subject: VESTER MUSIC COMPANY
Date: 21 Aug 92 21:03:47 GMT
Organization: University of Nevada - Reno

This newsgroup has never yet let me down, and I am hoping someone has the
telephone number and/or address of this firm. They publish an excellent
catalog of sacred choral music, and I have misplaced my copy. Thanks in
advance to anyone who can help.
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
From: dbarker@camins.camosun.bc.ca
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
Subject: Re: Authentic performance/pitch.
Date: 20 Aug 92 19:07:48 GMT
Organization: Camosun College

In article <1992Aug19.180904.23209@bas-a.bcc.ac.uk>, ucap22w@ucl.ac.uk (Martin S T Watts) writes:
> 
> After listening a lot, lately, to John Eliot Gardiner's recording of the B-minor
> Mass and Trevor Pinnock's Messiah, it occurred to me to see whether anybody else
> has any opinions on the use of "authentic" pitch in authentic performance. I use
> quotes because I'm not so sure why all the ensembles have arrived at this
> particular pitch, pretty much exactly a semitone below modern concert pitch,
> for Baroque performance. Is it that somebody's extrapolated back to the 1740's
> the upward trend in frequency that has occurred since people have started making
> numerical measurements of pitch, or has somebody unearthed a Baroque tuning 
> fork? If so, who's too say it isn't out of tune? And is pitch really likely to
> have been as standardised in those times as it supposedly is now for 
> conventional performance?

The international standardisation of A=440 was agreed on in 1938 (I
think - please correct me if I'm wrong someone), but it was not until
after WWII that it actually took effect. Anyone who has any familiarity
with German tape recordings made during the period 1938-1945 will be
familiar with the problems of pitch, largely caused because the
equipment itself was not necessarily running at a standardised speed.
Europe, I think, was tending to use a lower pitch that the UK and the US
until 1945.
-- 
===============================================================
|Deryk Barker Computer Science Dept.  | Without music life    |
|Camosun College, Victoria, BC	      | would be a mistake    |
|Canada 			      | (Friedrich Nietsche). |
===============================================================
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
From: icking@gmd.de (Werner Icking)
Subject: Private Mail to: Colby Leider
Organization: GMD, Sankt Augustin, Germany
Date: Thu, 13 Aug 1992 16:52:21 GMT

My reply by PM bounced -- please inspect your From:-address -- Werner

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Date: Thu, 13 Aug 1992 16:16:11 +0200
From: Werner Icking <Werner.Icking@gmd.de>
Message-Id: <199208131416.AA19768@gmdzi.gmd.de>
To: colby@tsd.arlut.utexas.edu
Subject: Re: Bach music for solo strings (CELLO suites on VIOLA)
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical

In rec.music.classical you write:

>No offense, but, just out of curiosity, *why* would one want to hear the
>'cello suites on a viola?

Because he plays viola ... and no such work for viola exists. Same is true
for the sonatas and partitas for violin solo where scores for viola are
available.

Werner (sometimes trying to play some parts of some of the sonatas & partitas)
--
Werner Icking           icking@gmd.de            (+49 2241) 14-2443     __o
GMD - Gesellschaft fuer Mathematik und Datenverarbeitung mbH          _`\<,_
Schloss Birlinghoven, P.O.Box 1316, D-5205 Sankt Augustin, Germany   (_)/ (_)
                             "Der Dativ ist dem Genitiv sein Tod." ~~~~~~~~~~~
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical