From: jerry@connection.prospect.com (Jerry Shekhel)
Subject: Re: PC (OS/2) / Amiga debate -- hopefully a rational debate, an I an ideali
Organization: Molecular Simulations, Inc.
Date: Wed, 9 Sep 1992 15:42:43 GMT
X-Posted-From: connection.prospect.com
X-Posted-Through: sol.ctr.columbia.edu

mikeh@starnine.com (Mike Haas) writes:
>>
>>As sophistication goes up, so does the chance of bugs.  Are you rational
>>enough to see this?
>
>Sure, so I can tell how sophisticated my OS/2 program is by how
>many bugs it has.  Okay.
>

That's a moronic comment, Mike.  Greater sophistication implies greater
code size, which in turn implies a higher chance of bugs.  It doesn't work
backwards; take a logic course.

>>
>>O.K.  Device independent graphics,
>
>In the works.
>

I'm sure it'll be here Real Soon Now (tm) and won't break any existing
programs.

>>
>>virtual memory,
>
>Yup, the amiga doesn't have that.  Does OS/2 AUTO-CONFIGURE?
>

Yup, OS/2 doesn't have that.  Does AmigaOS have Postscript fonts?

>
>You've stated maybe 3 facilities that OS/2 has over the Amiga...
>...as I said above, AUTO-CONFIGURATION as well REAL-TIME OS
>are two on the Amiga's side that OS/2 doesn't support...
>

AutoConfig is nice, but you get to use it, what, once every couple of
years or so?  As for "real-time", what is it about AmigaOS that makes it
more "real-time" than OS/2?  Please limit your answer to facts.

>
>I'm sure I could come up with more (like virtual screens),
>

OS/2 can do this with display drivers.

>
>but the point is that
>the Amiga is VERY comparable to OS/2 and superior in some
>respects.
>

Superior to OS/2 in what respects?

>
> (YOU can't run a video
> toaster, genlocking, Mac emulation...in your Intel box.)
>

Does this have anything to do with AmigaOS?

>
>Then hell, I was just a little high.  27 Megs, eh?  What were you
>saying about the number of bugs as OS/2 software gets more
>"sophisticated"?
>

27MB includes lots of DOS and Windows compatibility stuff, as well as
accessory programs that AmigaOS lacks.

>>
>>Anyway, you are 
>>getting two operating systems, and an operating environment (Windows),
>>plus Adobe Type Manager 2.0.  You are also getting more features.  If 
>>you don't want the features, you can nix them off your hard disk.
>
>As I said, MSDOS & WIndows (gag) ARE available on the Amiga with both
>hardware & software emulators.  Scaleable fonts are in AmigaOS 2.0.
>And I haven't "nix"ed any system software off my hard disk yet (but
>I can see why it's common practice with OS/2...lower the incidence
>of "sophisticated" software).
>

And all these extra emulators, applications, and features don't take
up any disk space under AmigaOS, right?  And they're all bug-free, right?
What an amazing system.

>
>>If you want to be
>>locked into just a few choices and a few prices for a computer, fine.
>
>If the system is designed right, you don't NEED that many choices!
>

Ha ha.  Tell that to your buddies arguing over RTG, GVS, Commodore's
stagnation, new chipsets, flicker-fixers, etc.

>
>And there's a lot you can do about the flicker... right up to
>eliminating the flicker entirely.
>

Sure, for $250.  Great.

>
>I'm saying that your PC is crap for video... that to do decent
>video, you'll have to pump mucho bucks into it.
>

Do all Amiga owners do video stuff, or is it just something you
can whine about other systems not being able to do?  By the way,
call Boffin Limited at (612) 894-0595, and ask them about their
$199 VGA-to-NTSC cable.  Wow, less than the flicker-fixer even!

>>
>>You have not make the distintion between hardware and software.
>>8 character filenames are gone in OS/2.
>
>What IS the limit in OS/2?
>

Something like 250 characters.

>>
>>1)  Make sure you know what you're talking about or your posts will
>>    degenerate into threads of correction after correction.
>>    I'm not saying you don't entirely know what you are talking
>>    about, just there are some things that are in error.
>
>What bogus information have I conveyed?  When I'm guessing, I
>say so.
>

What bogus information?!  Practically everything you've said, especially
the stuff about what's impossible, overly expensive, overly buggy, overly
bloated, etc., on PC's.

>
>The original PC/MSDOS was, pure and simple, an inferior machine.
>The severe machine limitations (640K, no multitasking, etc.) were
>so blatent that IBM could only have planned those bits of obsolescence.
>

This is insane.  The PC arrived at a time when the typical mainstream
personal computer had a 64K RAM limitation and a file system that didn't
support subdirectories.

>
>The architecture of the hardware is virtually unchanged... still all the
>configuration headaches of early computers.  Installing, changing,
>configuring hardware is a pain...if it's lessened in complexity at
>all, it's due to the toil of a third-party-developer who designed
>his stuff to be friendlier...NOT by the OS giving any help here.
>

I suppose this is true, but once you do the configuration, it's over until
you buy new hardware.  What's the big deal with this?

>
>OS/2 does fix a lot.  It provides true multitasking (even if it
>isn't real-time).
>

See above.

>
>It IS much better than the older systems, but
>27 Meg?
>

Nope, see above.

>
>But all in all, it probably has a place in the realm of
>modern-day, "sophisticated" OS's (even if it IS limited to
>single-letter drive specs),
>

Send me some mail when you need to add drive #27 to your system.

>
>if Windows doesn't knock it out
>of the marketplace (is OS/2 compatible with Win3.1 stuff?...
>is it endangered by Win/NT?).
>

OS/2 is not yet compatible with Win3.1-specific programs, but will be with
the next (free) update.  And yes, IMHO OS/2 is very much endangered by Win/NT.
Check out comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy for a nice comparison of OS/2 2.0 and
the pre-beta Win/NT.
--
+-------------------+-----------------------+--------------------------------+
| Jerry J. Shekhel  | Molecular Simulations | Time just fades the pages      |
| Drummers do it... | Inc.  Waltham, MA USA | in my book of memories.        |
|    ... In rhythm! |     (617) 890-2888    |              -- Guns N' Roses  |
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|           ...! [ princeton mit-eddie bu sunne ] !polygen!jerry             |
|                            jerry@polygen.com                               |
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Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy