From: hiscrp@nuscc.nus.sg (C R Pennell)
Subject: Re: Irish Books/U.S. Bookshops
Organization: National University of Singapore
X-Newsreader: Tin 1.1 PL4
Date: Sat, 23 Jan 1993 06:05:57 GMT

mike@fionn.lbl.gov (Michael Helm) writes:
: C R Pennell writes:
: >Maybe you missed Chris' original post. Ireland's role in the history of
: >imperialism was to be on the receiving end. QUite a lot of British
: >policies which were later applied elsewhere in the Empire were first 
: >applied there (colonial policing is a classic example)
: 
: [His posting arrived here much later than your followup.]
: 
: I don't think I believe it, however.  It's an interesting hypothesis,
: but when you look at historical timelines, who was doing what when,
: the colonial treatment or whatever of Ireland is practically
: simultaneous with the period of English colonization -- everywhere
: else in the world.  English colonization of Ireland begins with
: the Tudors & doesn't really work until the end of Elizabeth's
: regime.  That's the same time the colonization of North America
: starts.
: 
: Isn't it at least as likely that the English practiced their
: colonialist skills out of site in Virginia & Barbados & then brot them
: back to the colony next door?  Or to their other "colonies" elsewhere
: in Britain itself?
: 
Not sure. Chris is an expert on first British empire, I'm not, but what
you say seems quite likely. Though there was a plan in Charles II's
time to shift penniless Irishmen to Tangier in Morocco, then occupied by
the English (term used advisedly!) on the grounds it would keep them quiet.
The real influence comes with the period of "high imperialism" from the
1880s onwards, when, for example, the Irish police were used as a model
for police forces in other colonies. One of the standard semi-official
histories of colonial policing - published in the 1930s, I think - makes
the remark that the difference between colonial policing (in which Ireland
was included) and policing in the home country was that thre could be no
local involvement in policing policy in the colonies, no "democratic"
control. Interestingly this business came round full circle in the late
1960s with the appointment of Arthur Young as head of the RUC: Young was
brought in from the City of London Police (the force that managed the
"City" - not the Met), having served as advisor to the Gold Coast Police
in the early 1950s, then as head of the Malayan police during the
emergency, where he tried (quite successfully) to make the colonial force
responsive to local needs, and then as head of police in Kenya, where he
resigned after a very short time, for reasons that -as far as I know -
haven't been explained, but are rumoured to be connected with his fury
over maltreatment of people who'd been arrested. When he arrived in  NI he
attempted to clean up the RUC's reputation. Whether he did that is a moot
point, but it certainly infuriated  some of the Unionists! 



: > [Medieval Norwegian history is the boringest]
: >Hush, you never know who's listening. We might get a thread about
: >Norwegian history.
: 
: Wake me when it's over.

Getting a long way from books, aren't we?

Richard
Xref: sparky soc.culture.yugoslavia:10710 alt.news.macedonia:234 soc.culture.misc:576