From: lb@cs.man.ac.uk (Luben Boyanov)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.greek
Subject: Re: DON'T RECOGNIZE SKOPJE-23 REASONS
Date: 14 Nov 92 13:54:30 GMT
Organization: Dept Computer Science, University of Manchester, U.K.

In article <BxJvKt.2v1@gabriel.keele.ac.uk> cla04@seq1.keele.ac.uk (A.T. Fear) writes:

[deleted]

>> 8- The usage of Macedonian as a nationality was Tito's invention in 1944.
>> Tito, the communist dictator created a false ethnic consciousness among his
>> south Slavic citizens for a number of reasons, including the campaign against
>> Greece to gain control of Greece's province of Macedonia and the main prize of
>> the major port city of Thessaloniki.
>
>Only one interpretation of why Tito created a federal Yugoslavia and it's
>usually accepted that the nationalities he used were pre-existing ones
>despite what Greek propaganda would have us believe.

I'm afraid that you got it quite wrong here (if you have in mind the
present 'Macedonian' nationality). Whatever the Greek and the
Vardar Macedonians claim can be easily verified from many non-Balkan
documents - British, French, German, Italian, American ... There was no
Macedonian nationality/(distinguish language) in the past and this can't be
a subject of an argument for any one who read anything (apart from several
politically motivated Serbian authors - let me mention here that if one
looks for a 'blame' - Serbia is not to be blamed for this - it's Austria)
from the past. Whatever Greece is wrong or not at present time, for one
thing she is 100% right and this can be easily checked - there was no
Macedonian nationality/ethnic identity in the near past. I suppose that HMSO
publications are serious enough, if you doubt my words (at least I find
them quite objective - as much objective can be the official line of a
country, which policy, has been most of the time pro-Greek and
anti-Bulgarian ... but ... that's been in the British interests - nothing
wrong in this). Even if for some reason one doubts the British official
documents (incl. a lot of consular reports, etc, etc), there are similar
French, Austrian and Italian Gov. publications. All they prove beyond any
doubt that the only nationalities in Macedonia 45 - 70 years ago were the
Bulgarian (majority in Macedonia, apart from the coast of the Aegean sea.
One must also say that the Greek became a majority in Aegean Macedonia,
after the population exchanges following WWI), Greek, Turkish, Serbian,
Albanian and Jewish. There was no Macedonian nationality some 45-70 years
ago. How and why it was formed is a longer story. It's not simply created
after 1945, but these were the most crucial years and also with the
greatest impact on the national consciousness of the Macedonians from Vardar
nowadays. Whether this is a reason for recognition or for rejection of such
- that's another matter. I also see no reason why the Macedonians from
Vardar Macedonia don't recognize this fact as this will only help them not
living with myths but with historic truths. Nothing wrong (there are a lot
of examples) of one national group changing it's national identity. And
that is exactly the case with the Macedonians from the ex-Yu republic.

>> However,
>> there is no such separate ethnic group. These are people speking a Slav
>> dialect living in parts of Macedonia controlled by Yugoslavia and Bulgaria.
>> Serbs say these people are Serbs, Bulgarians say they are Bulgarians.
>
>And the Macedonians say they are  Macedonians - might be fair to give
>them a chance to speak for themselves.

As a matter of fact, there are a lot of persecuted Bulgarians who still
fear of proclaiming themselves as such. For 70 years it was a crime for
somebody in that region to declare himself as a Bulgarian - alas the
Bulgarian state still continues the stupid policy to be silent, in order to
keep 'good relations' and that state doesn't expresses it care about the
Bulgarian nationals abroad in the proper way. However ridiculous this may
sound - the Bulgarian Gov has been the only one in the world to denounce
part of it's population within it's borders, which had Bulgarian
consciousness as being a 'foreign' one - this happened during the first
years of the Bulgarian communist regime in Pirin Macedonia. It's useless to
speak about the Bulgarians abroad ... Those years left their impact during
the 'reverse' decision some years later - but this is also another
unfortunate story ...

>> 19- Recognition of the Skopje regime as "Macedonia" will prove destabilizing
>> for the region and harmful to US interests. It is better to prevent a crisis
>> than to respond to one.
>
>Since lack of recognition will probably lead to the collapse of the
>Macedonian government and probably a Serbian invasion I suggest lack of
>recognition would hurt it even more. The US has nothing to loose, much
>to gain by helping promote a stable, multi-ethnic Macedonia and only has
>to face Greek petulence in return.  

Do you think that if the West/US cared about the lives of the people on the
Balkans and about the stability there, so much blood would have been
spilled so far (and this one continues ...). The West/US has it's interests
and as there is no petrol on the Balkans, it's far easier to issue
declarations and not take more serious actions which can stop this terrible
war. It is a delicate issue, there are many interests in that war, but what
we see so far is nothing which the 'civilized' world can be proud that has
allowed to happen. And that conflict can easily go South - towards
Kossovo and Macedonia ... Declarations won't stop it (just like
declarations didn't stop Hitler and WWII).

>> 20- On June 27, 1992, the EC unanimously accepted the Greek position that the
>> Skopje regime should only be granted recognition ONLY if the word "Macedonia"
>> was not included.
>
>I don't think the phrase 'Skopje regime' was used. This was a shameful
>act and one that the Community was forced into by blackmail - the
>commission it sent out to Macedonia recommended recognition - only the
>fear of Greece sulking stopped this.

This is really interesting - what is this 'fear of Greece'? I think the
better expression is the 'lack of interests' in the region. How do you
think - had similar events happened in the Baltic republics, the Western
reaction would have been the same? Even worse - nowadays the Russians there
are deprived of their human/political rights in the countries they have
been borned and lived all their lives, but where is the concern about those
people?
 
>Balkans and prevent even more human suffering there.  It is bizarre that
>this is stopped by one country fantasising over a mythical version of
>its history.

Do you really believe that Greece has such power to influence EC/US
decisions? If they had, should had the Cyprus problem (where Greece had a
far more reasonable/understandable interest) still exist? We all know that
the EC/US care about Greece and Greece has it's influence there, but ...

>Andy

Regards


Luben
Newsgroups: soc.culture.greek,soc.culture.yugoslavia,soc.culture.europe