HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: dwl@watson.ibm.com (David W. Levine)
Subject: Re: QE II Grounding
Date: Wed, 12 Aug 1992 20:09:58 GMT
Reply-To: dwl@watson.ibm.com 
Disclaimer: This posting represents the poster's views, not necessarily those of IBM
Organization: IBM Thomas J. Watson Research Center

A few more tidbits of information on the grounding. Through his lawyer,
the pilot's indicated that the QE II was steaming at 24 knots when they
touched. Given her size, I'd guess that they were past whatever they hit 
almost before they realized they'd hit anything. (It only takes 24 seconds for 
her to pass the whole length of the hull over a single spot at that speed) 

Looking at the chart, the 39 foot spot that's charted (Also at the lat/lon 
reported in the Boston Globe) is right on a line between where you'd be after
passing north of Lucas Shoal and heading toward the VS fairway bouy. I'd guess
they were just plain unlucky and found out that it's more like a 32 foot spot
than a 39 foot spot. I'd also bet that they dogleg south a mile or so next
time they pass through Vinyard sound.

David W. Levine      -- IBM Thomas J. Watson Research Center
dwl@watson.ibm.com   -- (914) 784-7427 

My Opinions, IBM's hardware. -- 
Newsgroups: rec.boats
From: gerard@progress.COM (Gerard Bras)
Subject: Re: QE II Grounding
Organization: Progress Software Corp.
Date: Wed, 12 Aug 1992 15:13:56 GMT

ERSHC@CUNYVM.BITNET (Eric Schweitzer) writes:

>In article <1992Aug11.213103.3034@progress.com>, gerard@progress.COM (Gerard
>Bras) says:
>.>
>.>>   >   As a semi-related question, I often see draft markings on large
>.>>   >ships which are two-digit numbers without punctuation.  The numbers are
>.>>   >too big to be feet (i.e. 40s, 50s, 60s).  The best I can figure out is
>.that
>.>   >they are meters and tenths (i.e. when it reads 50, the ship
>.is drawing 5.0
>.>   >meters).  Is that reasonable?
>.
>.>   No, it isn't reasonable.  The markings are feet.  A large tanker/freighter
>.>   can easily draw 50-90 feet when fully loaded.
>.
>.Are you sure.  It's mostly a metric world out there and for a variety
>.of reasons
>.most freighters are not registered in the US.  Im' not saying you're
>.wrong, I'm
>.just not convinced you are right.

>A shame, because he is right. I would suppose this is because Britania
>ruled the waves when these conventions were set in stone. The Draft
>Marks are measured in feet, and marked in letters (if roman numerals)
>or numerals 6 inches high (so the bottom of the mark is the depth).

OK.  I'm swayed by the preponderance of opinion, a lot of it coming from people
with direct experience.  Live and learn.

>Just as a sticky point, someone called these Plimsoll marks. They are
>not. The Plimsoll mark, or load disk is the circle with a line
>denoting a summer load line in salt water, and letters denoting
>the clasifying society (eg Lloyd's Register). There may also be other
>load lines (eg. Tropical Fresh, Winter Salt, etc)

>Gad...what useless knowledge one aquires!

Useless?  No way, I'm impressed.  Where'd you learn all this marine trivia?

cheers,
gerard



Newsgroups: rec.boats
From: heon@cbnewsg.cb.att.com (garry.j.heon)
Subject: Re: Bayliner Boats
Organization: AT&T
Distribution: na
Date: Wed, 19 Aug 1992 15:46:44 GMT

In article <1992Aug18.090351@doodly.mcc.dec.com>, swist@doodly.mcc.dec.com (Jim Swist) writes:
> re: Chopper guns.
> 
> I have read that the use of chopped strand per-se is not bad and
> that you can do either bad or good layup jobs using either hand
> laying or chopper methods.
> 
> It is in fact no longer true that only low-end manufacturers,
> such as Bayliner, use chopped strand.  It is a very common
> technique used by a majority of fiberglass boat builders to
> at least some extent.  There have been many technological improvements
> in the process and its use doesn't necessarily have anything to
> do with the strength, ride, or durability of a hull.
> 
Well, from the articles of read, most recently in Boating Industry,
Baja does not even own a chopper gun.  That's why I own a Baja!
Baja also does alll the graphics in the gel, another PLUS, no tape.

******************************************
* MY OPINIONS.............AT&T's NETWORK *
*                                        *
* Garry Heon                     AT&T    *
* heon@cbnewsg.att.com       Holmdel, NJ *
******************************************
From: woodruff@s34.es.llnl.gov (John Woodruff 422-4661)
Newsgroups: rec.boats
Subject: Re: Gas tanks and safety. Was, Re: snow goose
Date: 18 Aug 92 19:06:06 GMT
Organization: Lawrence Livermore National Lab
In-reply-to: francis@oas.stanford.edu's message of 18 Aug 92 12:26:26 GMT

On the subject of tanks and fueling operations, I'd welcome some advice
from you knowledgable (and diplomatic) folks about a scene I saw at my
home marina (on the San Joaquin delta, Calif) on Sunday.

One of the boats that moors down the dock from me was fuelling when I
returned from my weekend on my wooden cruiser.  This boat is a rather
pretty 30' houseboat powered (so to say) by a single outboard.  The
skipper carried the pump nozzle onto the house-top -- a good 10 feet
above the water -- and proceeded to fill his tanks.

The tanks he carries are ordinary (-looking) 50 gallon drums.  There is
no structure that I could see securing the drums.  He seems to have an
inventory of 200 gallons of gasoline stored up there.  I had a brief
chat with the marina manager, who said "That's where he keeps his fuel;
I guess it must be okay."

I'm sweating ice-picks when I think of all that fuel stored like that,
under the same wooden boathouse where my poor Tangerine Tree has to
sleep.

Is this fellow endangering me or am I just scaredy?  Is he breaking any
law?  Do I have any recourse?  What would my insurance company think of
this?  Anybody got any suggestion?

John
--
John Woodruff   (woodruff1@llnl.gov)   510-422-4661
Employed by, but not representing the policys of
Lawrence Livermore National Laboratory
Newsgroups: rec.boats
From: daves@bluemoon.rn.com (David E. Scott)
Subject: Re: Bayliner Boats
Organization: Blue Moon BBS ((614) 868-998[024])
Date: Tue, 11 Aug 92 22:34:56 EDT

rrusk@ssd.csd.harris.com (Bob Rusk) writes:

> On 10 Aug 92 17:58:39 GMT, goldberg@cs.ubc.ca (Murray W. Goldberg) wrote:
> 
> >This may be a naive view, but **IF THE THIN HULLS ARE DURABLE** (and cause
> >no other problems) the extra fuel economy and speed gained from the reduced
> >weight would be welcome.
> 
> Yes, I have always appreciated the extra speed and fuel economy provided
> by the light weight of a Boston Whaler.  (Whoops!  Wrong end of the price
> spectrum.)  Their composite construction techniques result in boats that
> are 10-20% lighter than (and yet more rigid than) their competition.  Not
> terribly thin, though. :^)
> --
That brings up an interesting point.  The St. Lawrence is famous for a 
wide variety of wave conditions, from glass to 4' waves, and boats in use 
there have to be extra well built and have a high freeboard.  They also 
ride softer if they are built along the lines of the equally famous St. 
Lawrence Skiff, round and deep vee'd to ride the waves and cut thru them.

While I can't equate those conditions to "light chop" or salt water 
conditions, I do know those conditions are much more severe than most 
"protected waters".  It would be useful for some comparison of the wave 
structure most here seem to be discussing in salt water to the wave 
structure of a place like the St. Lawrence River.

The reason I'm interested is that I have a 1964 StarCraft glass boat with 
75 hp Evenrude that has a lot of hours/miles left in it.  From the 
Bayliner discussion, it would appear that the '64 StarCraft was better 
built than the current versions of the Bayliner.  Is that right?

If so, maybe the '64 is worth more than I thought <G>.  (And the dealer 
that sold us the '64 also sells Bayliners, and I'll bet if I traded up, 
I might be "took" perhaps.
Dave

sig: Quantum Mechanics have smaller tools
        and don't really know where they are...
From: Laughlin.Hughes@f764.n153.z1.fido.zeta.org.au (Laughlin Hughes)
Sender: UUCP@ship.UUCP
Newsgroups: rec.boats
Subject: Another request for REC.B
Date: Fri, 21 Aug 1992 02:12:00 -0800

MB/From: burzycki@zax.eda.teradyne.com (Mike Burzycki)
  /Organization: Teradyne, Inc. Boston MA

MB/About a week or so ago, I asked for people's opinions on starting a new
  /newsgroup for Hobie cat sailors. I saw only a few posts replying to this
  /request. Some of these replies suggested leaving it in rec.boats and they
  /were against rec.boats.hobie.

        Mike - I run an online system in Toronto called Ship to
Shore "S2S".  A sail-specific system with about 475 sailors aboard.
There are other S2S systems also afloat in Chicago, Vancouver,
Victoria and Portland OR.  I expect additional systems to launch
in San Francisco, Seattle and San Diego next month, and I believe
Mystic CT looks like a launch soon now too.  So we're "headed"
your way.  We run free for all sailors and the Clubs and
Associations.

        While we carry a bunch of marine conferences from various
networks, we also are networked among ourselves, with separate
conferences for things like Repair and Maintenance, Design, Racing
and so on.  As additional S2S systems launch, and our Membership
grows ( 1,000 as of last spring), I believe a "Sport Cats"
Conference would be a natural addition to the S2SNet.  So don't
give up the ship eh?

        Hope you wouldn't mind sharing an echo with us non-Hobie
cat sailors <smile>...

        Smooth sailing
        Laughlin Hughes
        Tornado KC234
        Skipper, Ship to Shore OIS, Toronto
                (416) 929-9657

 * OLX 2.2 * I may be all wet but I love my Tornado!


Newsgroups: rec.boats
From: mbb@cbnewsb.cb.att.com (martin.brilliant)
Subject: Re: QE II Grounding
Organization: AT&T
Date: Thu, 13 Aug 1992 18:10:19 GMT

From article <1992Aug13.123516.11360@cs.brown.edu>, by jfh@cs.brown.edu (John F. Hughes):
> ....
> ....  and the folks at NOAA who made those
> charts. After all, they take something like 10 soundings for each one that
> appears on the chart. Perhaps Louie was a little tired that day, and didn't
> notice the recorded sounding of 31 feet in the midst of all those "37"s, and
> so he put down "37" for that area. 

According to an article in the New York Times (which is more
conscientious than expert) the latest charts of Vineyard Sound are
based on soundings made in 1939 with a narrow-beam sonar.  On a rocky
bottom, it could miss a lot.  If there was a 31 foot depth at points
between the sounded 39 foot depths, nobody would ever know (until a
ship like the QE II found it).

It might be a good idea to use some of the old defense budget to take
new soundings with new technology.

							Marty
marty@hoqaa.att.com		hoqaa!marty
Martin B. Brilliant		(Winnertech Corporation)	
Newsgroups: rec.boats
From: conner@zax.eda.teradyne.com (Tom Conner)
Subject: Re: Request to start newsgrou
Organization: Teradyne, Inc. Boston MA
Date: Thu, 20 Aug 1992 14:10:26 GMT

I'd like to cast my vote in favor of creating a newsgroup with a focus on
small catamarans.

I find it much easier to "filter" information by newsgroup than by using
kill files and such.  Those who are interested in the info can easily
subscribe to the group in addition to rec.boats.

I haven't heard anyone say anything about extra newsgroups causing extra
network traffic -- seems to me the cost varies with volume of posts, not
with number of newsgroups.

What it boils down to is this:  There are good reasons in FAVOR of creating
the group.  I have not seen any good reasons AGAINST creating the group.
-- 
Tom Conner					   conner@sky.dnet.teradyne.com
Newsgroups: rec.boats
From: larry@pdn.paradyne.com (Larry Swift)
Subject: Re: Flares (was: Re: snow goose)
Organization: AT&T Paradyne, Largo, Florida
Distribution: usa
Date: Thu, 13 Aug 1992 13:09:01 GMT

In article <1992Aug12.162125.12849@phri.nyu.edu> roy@alanine.phri.nyu.edu (Roy Smith) writes:
>	What does one do with old, outdated, flares?  Is there a safe way
>to dispose of them?

I shoot mine off on the 4th of July.  We (and a zillion
others) are usually on the water then anyway.  Which
leads me to recount that I now am careful to aim them
more or less straight up, since I damn near hit another
boat that was anchored in the dark (no lights).

Larry Swift                     larry@pdn.paradyne.com
AT&T Paradyne, LG-132           Phone: (813) 530-8605
8545 - 126th Avenue, North      Gulfstar 37, aft cockpit
Largo, FL, 34649-2826           She's old and she's creaky, but she holds!

Newsgroups: rec.boats
From: peder@tamarack.cray.com (Peder Sterling)
Subject: Formula for speed ?
Originator: peder@tamarack
Reply-To: peder@cray.com
Organization: Cray Research, Inc.
Date: 20 Aug 92 09:14:36 CDT


I have a 15' aluminum runabout with a 35 hp outboard which probably doesn't
weigh anymore than 600 pounds unloaded (a conservative "guess").  The boat
will do about 20 mph with one person, 18 mph with two people, 14 mph with 
four people.  I like to use the boat for pulling a tube, but find that the 
slow speed just isn't that "exciting" after a while.

So, I have been thinking of upgrading the motor to somewhere between a 50 hp
and 70 hp (max limit for the transom).  Now I know that a 70 hp isn't going
to make the boat go twice as fast, in fact I would estimate the top speed with
a single person to be ~28 - 32 mph (based on a gut feeling).  Does anyone know
of a formula based on the length + weight + # hp of a boat which could be used
to calculate top speed, without considering prop diameter and pitch ?

--
Peder G. Sterling       peder@cray.com          uunet!peder@cray.com
====================================================================
Cray Research, Inc.     655F Lone Oak Drive     Eagan, MN 55121
Voice: (612) 683-5564   Fax: (612) 683-5889
From: aklick@ra.cs.umb.edu (Andrew Klickstein)
Newsgroups: rec.boats
Subject: Re: QE II Grounding
Summary: Where and when
Date: 17 Aug 92 22:45:14 GMT
Distribution: ne
Organization: University of Massachusetts at Boston, Dept of Math and CS

In article <65871@hydra.gatech.EDU> dewey@prism.gatech.EDU (DEWEY BAXTER) writes:
>How long will the QEII be in drydock in Boston?  I'll be up there the

The lastest news seems to be that the original 75 ft. gash is really a
400 ft. scrape with associated dings and digs.  They _hope_ to have repairs
completed by Sept. 29.  A real boon for the until-recently laid-off workers
at General Shipyard.

>week after labor day and I wouldn't mind dropping by to see it.  Anyone
>have more precise info on where it's at?

The drydock is at the Black Falcon Terminal in South Boston.  Just about
everybody in town knows where this is since they stuck all those tall ships
there.
-ak

>-- 
>Sports is  | Dewey Baxter  Manager, Computer Operations
>life with  | Georgia Institute of Technology, Atlanta Georgia, 30332
>the volume | uucp: ...!{allegra,amd,hplabs,seismo,ut-ngp}!gatech!prism!dewey
>turned up! | ARPA: dewey@prism.gatech.edu


-- 
Andy Klickstein                                                210     #257
Internet: aklick@cs.umb.edu                              Appledore     #104
Newsgroups: rec.boats
From: pyron@skndiv.dseg.ti.com (Dillon Pyron)
Subject: Re: Acquiring a blasted FCC liscense
Reply-To: pyron@skndiv.dseg.ti.com
Organization: TI/DSEG VAX Support
Date: Fri, 21 Aug 1992 19:21:55 GMT


In article <21AUG199213514977@jhuvms.hcf.jhu.edu>, ecf_stbo@jhuvms.hcf.jhu.edu (it takes a bigger man to laugh at that man...) writes:
>In article <1992Aug21.144400.20962@porthos.cc.bellcore.com>, keith@iscp.Bellcore.COM (Keith Hawkins) writes...
..justifiable irritation and following good humour deleted ...

>I'm sorry sir, but you are not bending over backwards for
>this crap, you are bending over forwards!
>
>
>Tom O'Toole - ecf_stbo@jhuvms.hcf.jhu.edu - JHUVMS system programmer 
>Homewood Computing Facilities, Johns Hopkins University, Balto. Md. 21218 
>> * OLX 2.1 * ease!Trim!eeeaaaassse!trimtrimTRIMeeeeeeeaaaaaasse!trimea
>

Tom, for some reason, I don't think that's going to make him feel any better.

--
Dillon Pyron                      | The opinions expressed are those of the
TI/DSEG Lewisville VAX Support    | sender unless otherwise stated.
(214)462-3556 (when I'm here)     |
(214)492-4656 (when I'm home)     |"Do something different, DISAPPEAR"
pyron@skndiv.dseg.ti.com          |  "DISAPPEAR"
                                     _A Day On Earth_
                                     Brave Combo

From: ben@hpcvra.cv.hp.com (Benjamin Ellsworth)
Date: Mon, 17 Aug 1992 17:02:37 GMT
Subject: Re: protest question (rule 32
Organization: Hewlett-Packard Co., Corvallis, OR, USA
Newsgroups: rec.boats


I wasn't there.  All I have to go on is what has been posted, so there
maybe something significant which invalidates my points, but I can't
sit still any longer.  The committe screwed S.  That's all there
is to it.  I'll enlarge upon one of Guido's latest postings.

> In other words, if a judge was suspended over the action with a camera
> he should have all the information required for a decision.  The
> judge does not need to have any information as to what a skipper was
> thinking, or what he saw or said.
> 
> In the example above, if the skipper of S had said, "I saw P all the
> way and I thought P was ducking me", should S be DSQed according
> to to 32.1? The answer should be the same regardless of S said.
> Expecting P to duck when they are already behind the bow of S
> is quite reasonable as is expecting P to tack at the last second
> and S can't possibly know what P is planning on doing and therefore no
> course change is reguired by S.

I very much agree with Guido.  This removes the subjectivity and
moralizing that the committee in question involved themselves in.

The committee fixated on one rule--the requirement to maintain a proper
watch.  The question that best demonstrates this is "OK, assume that
there had been a proper watch kept on S, what difference in outcome
would have occurred?"  As Guido very correctly points out, nothing.

> (Going full speed forward without course alteration can be a perfectly
> reasonable action to avoid a collision). 

In fact it is REQUIRED.  The privileged vessel is primarily responsible
to maintain course and speed so that the burdened vessel can avoid
her.  In crossing and overtaking situations, any other actions are
bound to cause problems ("Uh oh, they're overtaking us, looks like
they'll pass too closely on the right.  Quick, bear off to the left!"
*crunch*).  If you require the privileged vessel to second guess the
burdened vessel, you will ensure chaos.

The hailing thing is a red herring BTW.  The last time I was involved
in a port-starboard collision of any magnitude, we were screaming our
lungs out at the other skipper.  We kept expecting him to tack.  Not
so, and he stuck is masthead through our #1.  (Then he tacked. :-( 

---

Ben
From: dbk@phx.mcd.mot.com (Dave Kinzer)
Newsgroups: rec.boats
Subject: Re: Bayliner Boats
Summary: Sea Ray hulls
Date: 21 Aug 92 14:38:25 GMT
Reply-To: teroach!dbk@phx.mcd.mot.com (Dave Kinzer)
Organization: Motorola Analog Integrated Circuits Division

I write:
>>has up to eight inches of layed up fiberglass
 
jfh@cs.brown.edu (John F. Hughes) writes:
>This is a remarkable number. 

I would agree with you, and I was only repeating what the owner said.  
However, he did watch his hull being layed at the plant in here in phoenix.
Maybe they made his extra thick since he was watching. :^)

-Dave
From: jbs@cbnews.cb.att.com (john.b.skiendziel)
Newsgroups: rec.boats
Subject: Lone Star Info Wanted
Keywords: Lone Star info
Date: 13 Aug 92 15:18:39 GMT
Distribution: na
Organization: AT&T




	Through the generosity of a fellow netter - I've acquired a
	12 foot Lone Star Sloop sailboat. The title states it a 1965
	model. I'm presently trying to restore the boat as much as I can.

	I would appreciate any information on how to contact the Lone Star
	Company and/or where I can order parts.

	One part that I would like to replace is the sloops hull perimeter
	bumper strip. Basically its a continuous U shaped strip the fits 
	over a 1 inch by .25 inch seam/tab around the boat. If any knows 
	of a supplier that could provide something reasonably similar, I
	would also appreciate the info.


	Thanks for the help!




Disclaimer: By no means does this posting reflect any opinions of my 
	    employer, AT&T.  Besides me, who else would admit to them?
Newsgroups: rec.boats
From: jadams@vixen.uucp (26070-adams)
Subject: Re: Using degreaser on a boat
Organization: Bellcore, Livingston, NJ
Distribution: na
Date: Fri, 21 Aug 92 12:27:45 GMT
Summary: You got more problems than greasy skis!

In article <1992Aug18.150527.3474@meaddata.com>, gregs@meaddata.com (Greg Smith) writes:
> I'd like to know if anyone has any ideas on the ill effects of using a
> degreaser in the bilge of a boat.  [Lotsa stuff delted]...
> ...  I have a 17' Winner open bow with a Mercruiser 140HP I/O.  The
> problem I have is that water in the bilge gets greasy.  Then it runs toward
                                                 ^^^^^^ A cause for concern
> the bow, through the drains, into the ski locker.  This tends to get my
> skis greasy.  ...

Imagine what this bilge water does when it's pumped overboard :-( !

> ...  Does anyone know if there might be any ill effects from doing this?

Short of being in strict violation of the recently passed illegal dumping
regulations and against all environmental considerations, NO!

I would definately have the engine and outdrive checked as soon as
possible.  On a vessel this small this should not happen.  Please, please
don't pump this bilge while afloat.  If you're worried about your skis
appearance, a little "Simple Green" will do an admirable job of rendering
the grease/oil into an emulsion.

Capt. Jack Adams		| Bellcore RRC 4B-259
(908) 699-3447 {Voice}		| (908) 336-2871 {Facsimile}
jadams@vixen.bellcore.com	| kahuna@attmail.com
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
	-- Great spirits have always encountered violent opposition from
	mediocre minds. -- Albert Einstein
Newsgroups: rec.boats
From: stefan@helios.physics.utoronto.ca (Stefan Mochnacki)
Subject: Re: What is a '85 30ft Catalina worth?
Organization: University of Toronto Physics/Astronomy/CITA
Distribution: na
Date: Wed, 19 Aug 1992 17:03:40 GMT

Richard Macheske asks:

> What is an '85 30ft Catalina worth ...

I recommend that he look at the new Second Edition
of "Boating for Less"; the author's sailboat case study is 
now for Catalina 30's in the Northeast (the first edition of
about 4 years ago dealt with Tartan 27's).

Sorry I forget the author's name: the book's at home.

				Stefan Mochnacki

-- 
Stefan W. Mochnacki          INTERNET - stefan@centaur.astro.utoronto.ca
Astronomy, U. of Toronto     UUCP - {uunet,pyramid}!utai!helios.physics!stefan
Ph. (416) 884-9562           BITNET - mochnacki@utorphys.bitnet 
FAX (416) 884-2672	     LOCATION - David Dunlap Observatory
From: m1mmm00@fed.frb.gov (Mary M. McLaughlin)
Newsgroups: rec.boats
Subject: net gathering
Date: 13 Aug 92 12:17:46 GMT
Reply-To: m1mmm00@fed.frb.gov (Mary M. McLaughlin)
Followup-To: net gathering
Organization: Federal Reserve Board, Wash, DC

:: It might be interesting and fun if we here in rec.boats that frequent 
:: the Chesapeake Bay got together sometime, somewhere on the bay. It's 
:: interesting to put a face on someone@a.big.site who you've been seeing
:: articles from over the months. 

Sure, I think it would be great fun.  I keep a J-40 in Annapolis and would
very much like to meet some local folks.

Mary McLaughlin