HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: dave@philips.oz.au (David Torr)
Date: Mon, 14 Dec 92 02:04:16 GMT
Organization: Philips Public Telecommunications Systems, Melbourne, Australia
Subject: Re: Let's sell Australia.
Distribution: aus

mwp@iconix.oz.au (Michael Paddon) writes:

>In <1992Dec11.071425.15130@trl.oz.au> harsant@headplant.trl.OZ.AU (Dave Harsant) writes:
>>Yeah, let's sell to AT&T. Then we don't have to worry about anything.
>>Who needs Australian owned companies?  Sell off everything, and make a
>>quick buck to meet some good business objectives.  Let's stuff the
>>environment while we are at it (as if we aren't), because conservation
>>costs too much.  Yeah, the experts know what's best for us, so don't
>>worry about it.  Why not appoint Kerry as PM.  No, even better, sell
>>him the job.  Then he won't have to waste time pressuring the
>>Government to rubber stamp his take over bids.  I can feel the wealth
>>trickling down now.

>I've got an even better idea! Why don't we sell Australia, lock, stock and
>barrel to the highest bidder. An entire continent, rich in natural resources,
>should be worth at least 20 trillion dollars or so. That's enough to make
>every man, woman and child a millionaire.

I seem to recall a Redgum song suggested the same thing a long time ago !!!!!!

I think the idea was that we could then all go to Bali and eat magic mushrooms!

>We invest the money and employ asians at slave labour rates. When Japan
>finally goes bust, we buy back Australia for a song. Hell, we can probably
>afford it on the interest we earned from our money.

>The end result: a sound profit.

>How about it, fellow Australians?

>                                      Michael
-- 
Dave Torr                                   dave@philips.oz.au
Software Development Manager                Tel +61 3 881 3587
Philips Public Telecommunications Systems   Fax +61 3 883 3577
Views expressed are personal and do not necessarily reflect Philips' policy.
Newsgroups: aus.general
From: sysnet@cc.newcastle.edu.au (David Morrison)
Subject: Re: Optus v AOTC. The Facts. (was Re: Cream-Skimming)
Organization: University of Newcastle, AUSTRALIA
Distribution: aus
Date: Mon, 14 Dec 1992 03:25:54 GMT

In article <pod.724287081@sour.sw.oz.au>, pod@sour.sw.oz.au (Paul O'Donnell) writes:
> In <1992Dec12.234850.16243@runx.oz.au> lawriew@runx.oz.au (Lawrie Waller) writes:
> 
>>But at what price? I note for instance that the current Optus/Telecom
>>price war is being directed at STD and hence essentially benefits the
>>business phone user. Now this of course cant be bad for a Country
> 
> What?  How do you make this leap of intuition?  Come and look
> at my the phone bill at my house some time, STD calls account
> for about 70% of our bill.  Cheaper STD calls are the best thing
> that could happen to our bill.

Common statistical error - take a sample of one and conclude that it is the 
norm, then base all your other comments on that "fact".

Given a reasonable sample, you would find that STD calls make up anything from 
0% to 100% of the meter registration part of the bill. For any individual 
phone, cheaper STD calls may make a lot or no difference.  For me, STD calls 
are less than 1% of my calls. I'd rather have cheaper local calls.
-- 
David Morrison, Manager, Networks and Comms, Uni of Newcastle, Australia
sysnet@cc.newcastle.edu.au or (VAX PSI) psi%0505249626002::sysnet
Phone: +61 49 215397	Fax: +61 49 216910
Newsgroups: aus.general
From: robert@psych (Robert Dal Santo)
Subject: Rental of SUN Machines....
Organization: Psychology Department, University of Queensland
Date: Thu, 17 Dec 1992 00:50:29 GMT



	We are looking at changing our policy from the purchase of SUN machines
to rental/leasing over a fixed period. Does anyone currently have any expereince
with the SUN Rental plan and can comment on pitfalls, traps or problems. The
proposal looks very enticing with positive factors  like not being stuck with 
old equipment and paying over a 3-5 year period. I'd appreciate any comments
both positive and negative from anyone currently engaged in a SUN Rental 
agreement or from people who have investigated it.


Robert Dal Santo              (07) 365 6687
(robert@psych.psy.uq.oz.au)

Department of Psychology,
University of Queensland 4072,
Newsgroups: aus.general
From: miw@cc.uq.oz.au (Mark I. Williams)
Subject: Re: Cream skimming considered beneficial
Organization: Prentice Centre, University of Queensland
Distribution: aus
Date: Fri, 11 Dec 1992 05:41:29 GMT

jwb@capek.rdt.monash.edu.au (Jim Breen) writes:

>miw@cc.uq.oz.au (Mark I. Williams) writes:

>>Well, I grew up 60 miles from the nearest exchange (except for the one
>>that was located in our house and served 4 other subscribers.) There was
>>certainly a certain amont of subsidisation, since in the country
>>exchange facilities tend to be smaller and less capital-efficient, but
>>otherwise country subscribers have *always* had to pay the full cost of
>>provision. If you lived outside the deignated area, you had to build
>>your own telephone line to the nearest exchange, even.

>It may come down to choice of words, Mark, but I don't agree with the
>"full cost of provision". Until the Whitlam govt changed it in 1974,
>rural subscribers paid a lower rental (despite the fact that telecom's
>rural plant was more expensive to install), and the same connection fee
>(usually to the nearest cable run) regardless of the cost of providing
>that run.

This is not true. The PMG was not required to connect anyone who lived
more than a certain distance from the nearest exchange. If you wanted
the phone on, you had to build your own telephone line. I know whereof I
speak, and have spent more than a few days repairing private telephone lines
after flood, storms, fires, and double-decker transports. This situation
prevailed from the year dot until the advent of modern communications in
1982. Since then, you have not had the privilege of building your own
line, but have had to pay Telecom's contractors to do it for you.

Neighbours of ours had 40 miles of private telephone line running into
town. You can imagine that it was a real pain for them to have to do
their own troubleshooting when the line was down. Of course, they shared
this line with about 4 other subscribers.

It is, however, true that if you were within a certain distance of a
cabling point, the PMG connected you, regardless of the cost. I don't
know what that distance was.

Rural subscribers certainly had a lower standard of service in those
days. Our exchange operated in office hours only, for example. After
5:00p.m. we could charge an opening fee.

cheers,


--
Mark Williams         The University of Queensland       miw@cc.uq.edu.au
+61 7 36 54012   (w)  Prentice Centre
+61 7 36 54477  (fax) Qld 4072  Australia
Nullum magnum ingenium sine mixtura dementiae fuit.  -- Seneca
Newsgroups: aus.general
From: Christopher.Vance@adfa.oz.au (Christopher JS Vance)
Subject: Re: Optus v AOTC.  The Facts. (was Re: Cream-Skimming)
Originator: cjsv@ccadfa.cc.adfa.oz.au
Organization: Computer Science, University College, UNSW/ADFA, Canberra, Australia
Distribution: aus
Date: Mon, 14 Dec 1992 00:22:42 GMT

In article <1992Dec13.225704.20809@trl.oz.au> djewell@rhea.trl.OZ.AU (David Jewell - Radio and Satellite Networks) writes:
| If you are wrong then can we go back to what we originally had, an Australian
| business wholly owned by Australians?

I don't ever remember receiving an invitation to the Annual General
Meeting.  I never had the opportunity to comment on the membership of
the Board.  I never received dividends.  I never had the opportunity
to buy or sell my share(s).

It was owned by the Government, not the people.  `Stuff the people,
we'll *tell* them what they want, and they'll bloody well like it.'

Same for QANTAS and the ABC.

-- Christopher
Newsgroups: aus.general
From: paul@bohra.cpg.oz.au (Paul White)
Subject: Re: Optus v AOTC. The Facts. (was Re: Cream-Skimming)
Organization: Computer Power Software Group Pty Ltd
Distribution: aus
Date: Thu, 17 Dec 1992 03:31:14 GMT

chris@suite.sw.oz.au (Chris Maltby) writes:

>No, that's anti-competitive. Monopolies are clearly anti-competitive.
>Are the people at Belgrave happy with their new efficient supermarket
>service or do they drive the extra 1/2 hour to find a cheaper one at
>Ferntree Gully?

Try 10 minutes. 


--
From: s871780@minyos.xx.rmit.OZ.AU (Antony Suter)
Newsgroups: aus.general
Subject: APANA - Melbourne Public Access Unix
Date: 17 Dec 1992 01:37:01 GMT
Organization: RMIT Computer Centre
Distribution: aus
NNTP-Posting-Host: minyos.xx.rmit.oz.au

In Melbourne there is the public access unix group called APANA.
It been around for 2 or even 3 years and is more extensive than even
Sydney I believe. I am a subscriber and I know a couple of the commitee
members personally.

Would someone from APANA care to relate more info here please?
-- 
Antony Suter			[0] antony@werple.apana.org.au
Melbourne, Australia		[1] s871780@rmit.edu.au
"Call me Jack - stranger things have happened!"
Newsgroups: aus.general,aus.jobs,aus.culture.china
From: richardm@runx.oz.au (Richard Murnane)
Subject: Re: Teenage daughters
Organization: RUNX Un*x Timeshare.  Sydney, Australia.
Distribution: aus
Date: Fri, 18 Dec 92 22:21:28 GMT

In article <chris.724657267@suite.sw.oz.au> chris@suite.sw.oz.au (Chris Maltby) writes:
>In <2523@eram.esi.COM.AU> dave@eram.esi.COM.AU (Dave Horsfall) writes:
>
>>As for teen-age daughters, I guess I'll find out soon enough.  She's
>>only nine, but is already calling her friends...
>
>>Dave Horsfall (VK2KFU)         VK2KFU @ VK2RWI.NSW.AUS.OC
>>dave@esi.COM.AU                ...munnari!esi.COM.AU!dave
>
>Frightening thought, all things considered. Boyd?

I'm suprised that Dave hasn't got her studying for her Novice Amateur Radio
license. Two metres is cactus anyway, so we might as well fill it up with
young adolescent females (actually, that's not a bad idea now that I think
of it... :-)

73 de Richard VK2SKY

-- 
Richard P. Murnane                     "Making it up? Making it up? Why should
Internet: richardm@runx.oz.au          I want to make anything up? Life's bad
UUCP:     uunet!runx.oz.au!richardm    enough without inventing more of it."
Packet:   VK2SKY @ VK2RWI.NSW.AUS.OC   - Marvin the Paranoid Android
From: dave@eram.esi.COM.AU (Dave Horsfall)
Newsgroups: aus.general
Subject: Re: Optus v AOTC.  The Facts. (was Re: Cream-Skimming)
Date: 14 Dec 92 23:07:19 GMT
Distribution: aus
Organization: Pacific ESI, Sydney, AUSTRALIA
X-Disclaimer: "Me, speak for us?"
X-Witty-Saying: "Mobius strip - see other side for instructions"

In article <6957@otc.otca.oz>,
    brendan@otc.otca.oz (Brendan Jones) writes:

| When I did my teletraffic engineering course in my Telecom days (some time
| ago), it was stated that the average length of a call is 3 minutes, or
| thereabouts.

Was this before or after modems became popular?

-- 
Dave Horsfall (VK2KFU)         VK2KFU @ VK2RWI.NSW.AUS.OC
dave@esi.COM.AU                ...munnari!esi.COM.AU!dave
Newsgroups: aus.general
Subject: Re: Nuclear waste (was Australian Research Reactor Proposal)
From: jem@latcs1.lat.oz.au (Joan McGalliard)
Date: Tue, 15 Dec 1992 00:37:53 GMT
Organization: Australian Computing and Communications Institute

In article <11427@uqcspe.cs.uq.oz.au> anthony@cs.uq.oz.au writes:
>In <Bz8E4C.7x7@research.canon.oz.au> greyham@research.canon.oz.au (Graham Stoney) writes:
>
>:I didn't say it was impossible to run a single reactor safely, I said that it
>:was impossible for all of them in the world to be run safely. Three Mile
>:Island nearly melted down, and Chernobyl exploded, so it can no longer be said
>:that all nuclear reactors can be run safely.
>
>Your logic is faulty:
>
>_all_ nuclear reactors are unsafe == there does not exists a safe
>reactor.

Whose logic is faulty?  Graham says "not all nuclear reactors are safe".
The implication from this is "there exists at least one reactor that is
unsafe".  Try to read with a little comprehension (or re-read your formal
logic texts).

joan
-- 
 "It's better to live on your     Joan McGalliard, 
  feet than to die on your        Australian Computing and 
  knees."                         Communications Institute.
                                  (borrowing latcs1)
Newsgroups: aus.general
From: harsant@headplant.trl.OZ.AU (Dave Harsant)
Subject: Re: Call length (was Re: Optus v AOTC...)
Organization: Telecom Research Labs. Melbourne, Vic, Australia
Distribution: aus
Date: Fri, 18 Dec 1992 06:51:54 GMT

In article <2522@eram.esi.COM.AU> dave@eram.esi.COM.AU (Dave Horsfall) writes:
>
>It would be interesting to see a diagram of call duration; I would expect
>a number of peaks, say at 3m (voice), ~10m (FAX - some are HUGE!), and of
>course an hour or more for those nasty modems :-)
>
>Anyone from Telecom like to provide one?

I don't have the info, if it exists, but may be able to find out.  Of
course, in the new competitive environment, this stuff may be
confidential. :-)


--
Dave Harsant,
Telecom Australia Research Laboratories  |  d.harsant@trl.oz.au
Newsgroups: aus.general
From: chris@suite.sw.oz.au (Chris Maltby)
Subject: Re: Teenage daughters
Organization: Softway Pty Ltd
Distribution: aus
Date: 18 Dec 92 05:41:07 GMT

In <2523@eram.esi.COM.AU> dave@eram.esi.COM.AU (Dave Horsfall) writes:

>As for teen-age daughters, I guess I'll find out soon enough.  She's
>only nine, but is already calling her friends...

>Dave Horsfall (VK2KFU)         VK2KFU @ VK2RWI.NSW.AUS.OC
>dave@esi.COM.AU                ...munnari!esi.COM.AU!dave

Frightening thought, all things considered. Boyd?
-- 
Chris Maltby - Softway Pty Ltd		Internet: chris@softway.sw.oz.au

PHONE:	+61-2-698-2322	"I'm waiting for X-Windows to become just that;
FAX:	+61-2-699-9174	 Ex-Windows" - A McGrath.
From: pte900@jatz.aarnet.edu.au (Peter Elford)
Newsgroups: aus.general
Subject: pen-pals
Date: 16 Dec 1992 19:55:55 GMT
Organization: Australian Academic and Research Network (AARNet)
Reply-To: Peter Elford <P.Elford@aarnet.edu.au>
NNTP-Posting-Host: 139.130.204.4

I (obviously) do not want responses to come to me ...

Forwarded message:
# From aolsys!mikezcom@uu3.psi.com Wed Dec 16 17:54:17 1992
# From: mikezcom@aol.com
# X-Mailer: America Online Mailer
# To: aarnet@aarnet.edu.au
# Subject: pen-pals
# Date: Tue, 15 Dec 92 23:42:47 EST
# Message-Id: <9212152342.tn07470@aol.com>
# 
# perhaps you can help me, i'm looking for someone there in
# Australia to be "pen pals" (e-mail-pals?).
# 
# America Online's customer service dept. directed to you.
# Any assistance you can provide would be greatly appreciated.
# 
# thank-you in advance.
# 
# 
# happy holidays!

-- 
Peter Elford,                             e-mail: P.Elford@aarnet.edu.au
Network Co-ordinator                      phone: +61 6 249 3542
Australian Academic Research Network      fax:   +61 6 249 1369
c/o, Computer Services Centre             pager: +61 6 245 3035
Australian National University            post: GPO Box 1142     
Canberra, AUSTRALIA                             Canberra ACT 2601
Newsgroups: aus.general
From: sysnet@cc.newcastle.edu.au (David Morrison)
Subject: Re: Optus v AOTC.  The Facts. (was Re: Cream-Skimming)
Organization: University of Newcastle, AUSTRALIA
Distribution: aus
Date: Mon, 14 Dec 1992 01:26:45 GMT

In article <6944@otc.otca.oz>, brendan@otc.otca.oz (Brendan Jones) writes:
>> 2) Can people choose Optus (by dialling '1') from a Telecom Payphone?
> 
> No.
> 
>> If Optus wants payphone customers, they should have to install their own
>> payphones.
> 
> They probably will.  In the UK, when Mercury came along, the effect of
> competition was to eventually make the public payphone business profitable,
> and as far as I could see, without slashing the service.
> 
> BT responded to Mercury by greatly improving the reliability of their
> payphones, improving the design of the phone booths, and by introducing the
             ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
> Phonecard system, similar to what we now have.

A recent film on the ABC described this. Instead of the familiar red boxes 
which kept out the noise and were weatherproof, they now have blue posts with 
phones attached, where it is almost impossible to hear the other person if 
there is ambient noise, the other person cannot hear you if the wind is 
blowing, and you get wet if it rains. This is claimed to have made the 
payphone business profitable??
-- 
David Morrison, Manager, Networks and Comms, Uni of Newcastle, Australia
sysnet@cc.newcastle.edu.au or (VAX PSI) psi%0505249626002::sysnet
Phone: +61 49 215397	Fax: +61 49 216910
Newsgroups: aus.general
From: rcgaym@minyos.xx.rmit.OZ.AU (Angus Y. Montgomery)
Newsgroups: aus.general
Subject: Re: Cream skimming (was Re: Directory Assistance)
Date: 10 Dec 1992 22:41:56 GMT
Organization: RMIT Computer Centre
Distribution: aus
NNTP-Posting-Host: minyos.xx.rmit.oz.au

jonathan@psych.psy.uq.oz.au (Jonathan Dwyer) writes:

>|> Surely you don't believe Optus will operate anywhere else but on the
>|> profitable routes. Is there anything in their charter that says that they
>|> must serve community obligations ? Will they provide phones and services
>|> for the outback communities ?
>|> Optus *is* a "Cream-skimmer".

>Compass Airlines fits this definition as well in provision of air services

yeah, but compass doesn't get to use the opposition's _planes_.
Newsgroups: aus.general
From: khchung@monu1.cc.monash.edu.au (Mr KH Chung)
Subject: Re: Energy conservation (was: Nuclear waste (was Australian Research Reactor Proposal)
Summary: small problem with fluorescent tubes
Organization: Monash University, Australia.
Date: Sat, 12 Dec 1992 10:35:54 GMT

In article <2637@grivel.une.edu.au>, drobinso@mendel.une.edu.au (D.Robinson) writes:
> In article <1992Dec5.055538.22843@metapro.DIALix.oz.au> bernie@metapro.DIALix.oz.au (Bernd Felsche) writes:
>   
> >Some energy providers provide feeble incentive like
> >subsidising the cost of compact flourescent lights (where
> 
> I know some power companies in the US do, along with other incentives.
> But they are commercial companies who have worked out what it would cost
> them to build new power stations.  Is it really happening in Australia?

There is one small problem with fluorescent lights, the way they are presently
made.  They contain mercury, not a lot, but then, there are a lot of
fluorescent tubes being made, and most of them don't seem to get recycled.
Especially the mercury.
From: anthony@cs.uq.oz.au (Anthony Lee)
Newsgroups: aus.general
Subject: Re: Nuclear waste (was Australian Research Reactor Proposal)
Date: 12 Dec 92 04:31:05 GMT
Reply-To: anthony@cs.uq.oz.au

In <Bz2tFL.B3t@research.canon.oz.au> greyham@research.canon.oz.au (Graham Stoney) writes:

:The Three Mile Island incident and the Chernobyl incident both say loud and 
:clear that neither private industry nor government can be trusted to safely
:run a nuclear power station. It may be theoretically possible to run them all
:perfectly safely, but in the real world in which we live, and in the nuclear
:environment where any accident at all is intolerable and has far-reaching
:effects, it's just not possible.

Oh I remember that, didn't someone said if God had wanted us to
fly then He would have given us wings ?  Using two accidents is
no argument for saying something is impossible.  If you want
proof of safety of nuclear reactor then what about the nuclear
reactors they used on U.S. nuclear submarines.  In 1963, the
U.S.S.  Thresher went down with all her crew but so far they have
not detected any radiation leaks.  It is possible to build safe
reactors, if you don't believe me check out recent issues of the
Scientific American.  There are now reactor designs that have
passive safety build-in so that the accidents that you referred
to just cannot happen.  Instead of using accidents to scare, why
don't you put up some sound scientific arguments that the nuclear
industry will never be safe.  But then again, didn't someone said
that the world is flat and that it is not wise to sail too far
South because we would fall off ?
--
Anthony Lee (Time Lord Doctor) (These are my opinions !)
email: anthony@cs.uq.oz.au	voice:+(61)-7-3651204 FAX:+(61)-7-3651999
SNAIL: Department Computer Science, The University of Queensland, 
       St Lucia, Qld 4072, Australia
Newsgroups: aus.general
From: fraser@munta.cs.mu.OZ.AU (Fraser Wilson)
Subject: Re: Cream skimming considered beneficial
Organization: Computer Science, University of Melbourne, Australia
Distribution: aus
Date: Fri, 11 Dec 1992 05:23:15 GMT

jonathan@psych.psy.uq.oz.au (Jonathan Dwyer) writes:

[ four lines of quoted text deleted to show the care and subtlety behind
  the followup more clearly ]

>Damn straight!

Yo!

Fraser.
From: taso@munnari.OZ.AU (Taso Hatzi)
Newsgroups: aus.general
Subject: Re: Let's sell Australia.
Date: 14 Dec 1992 20:20:35 +1100
Organization: University of Melbourne
Distribution: aus
NNTP-Posting-Host: munnari.oz.au
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1 PL6]

Michael Paddon (mwp@iconix.oz.au) wrote:
: 
: I've got an even better idea! Why don't we sell Australia, lock, stock and
: barrel to the highest bidder. An entire continent, rich in natural resources,
:
I'm interested in buying the bit mwp lives in! The rent will be $100,000 pa.

Newsgroups: aus.general
From: miw@cc.uq.oz.au (Mark I. Williams)
Subject: Re: Cream skimming considered beneficial
Organization: Prentice Centre, University of Queensland
Distribution: aus
Date: Fri, 11 Dec 1992 03:19:08 GMT

sysnet@cc.newcastle.edu.au (David Morrison) writes:

>But just think what would have happened if there had never been any 
>cross-subsidisation of telephone services. People living in cities and country 
>towns would have had a wonderful service. But those people who live in remote 
>places, or even on the outskirts of cities and towns, would have had no 
>service at all unless they were prepared to pay the full cost of provision.

Well, I grew up 60 miles from the nearest exchange (except for the one
that was located in our house and served 4 other subscribers.) There was
certainly a certain amont of subsidisation, since in the country
exchange facilities tend to be smaller and less capital-efficient, but
otherwise country subscribers have *always* had to pay the full cost of
provision. If you lived outside the deignated area, you had to build
your own telephone line to the nearest exchange, even.

When progress dictated that our exchange would get closed doewn and our
telephone would be changed to a radio system, we had to pay $11 000 for
each of our two connections (in 1982) for our connection to be upgraded, 
or have our service cut off.

While Telecom did put quite significant money into upgrading its
outback services in those days, that money was provided out of a special
development grant from the Commonwealth, not from Telecom's revenues. In
other words the cross-subsidies to country areas do not quite conform to
what you might think.

The biggest cross-subsidy in the telephone system is still from the
trunk call to local calls.

If Australians decide that some group or service should be subsidised,
then by all means let's do it. But let's do it by act of Parliament
rather than as part of the unfair business practices of a government
monopoly. (I am not 100% against AOTC being govt. owned, but I am
against them being allowed their unfair business practices.)

cheers,

--
Mark Williams         The University of Queensland       miw@cc.uq.edu.au
+61 7 36 54012   (w)  Prentice Centre
+61 7 36 54477  (fax) Qld 4072  Australia
Nullum magnum ingenium sine mixtura dementiae fuit.  -- Seneca
Newsgroups: aus.general