HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.allmusic
Date:         Tue, 26 Jan 1993 16:48:45 -0500
From:         mjferzig@MIDWAY.UCHICAGO.EDU
Subject:      Re: Take-home exam

>>Les Miz & Phantom of the Opera? "Successful" syntheses of pop &
>>CLASSICAL? Lord, my chains are heavy; do I have to treat the poor
>>list to another adjective-studded screech about what an obscene
>>hack Andrew Lloyd Webber is? Please, Tim, don't bring this ugly
>>farago on us all again..
>>Michael

Hey, I'm not a big Lloyd Webber fan either...although _Phantom_ was worth
seeing for the set, if nothing else....But I should clear up that _Les Miz_
- one of my top five favorite musicals - was not ALW, but Claude-Michel
Schoenberg....who does wonderful work. Whatever I may think of his _Miss
Saigon_ as a rip-off of _Madame Butterfly_, the music is, IMHO, absolutely
beautiful and incredibly compelling....

Marsha

Marsha J. Ferziger
University of Chicago School of Law
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Date:         Wed, 27 Jan 1993 22:52:00 CST
From:         Buck-Naked <TBUCK@KNOX.BITNET>
Subject:      Re: Coltrane this time....

> >And Jeff, what do you think of Seth Air? (I'm assuming you've heard it. I
> >haven't as yet, but hope to soon rectify that situation.)
>
> Seth Air?   never heard of that.

Well, knowing that I couldn't spell his last name right, I assumed you
would know who I was talking about. Wallace Roney [sic] and his latest
album called Seth Air (if memory serves). It was recorded the day that
Miles dies, and according to the linernotes (according to Downbeat) the
news of Miles' death was known halfway through the recording sessions.
Haven't heard it myself, but would like to.

I called the Jazz Record Mart about Herbie Hancock's "The Prisoner". They
said it was out on CD back in 1987, but has since gone out of print as of
January of 1992. (Damn!) Why the f*ck do they do that? All the rest of his
Bluenote catalog is still in print, so why delete that one? The main reason
I didn't even know of it's existance was that there were no cuts from in on
the Bluenote "Best Of" for Herbie. Must be some farther-out stuff. The CD
Hotline said that Joe Henderson was on it. (He's the guy on tenor, right?)
Can't say I've ever heard any Henderson. I hate the fact that there is so
much jazz out there, and the only way I can hear any of it is by spending
lots of cash for it. At least with rock, and by living on a college campus,
and by having ties to both a Top-40 radio station, and the campus station,
you can hear just about anything your little heard desires. With jazz, I
gotta shell out the big bucks for it, and the selection in a little town
like Galesburg sucks enormous radishes.

                                              Tom "Buck-Naked" Buck
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This week I got:
    Chet Baker      _My Favorite Songs_
                    _Chet in Paris_
    Miles Davis     One of the compilation CD's I can't remember
                    which
    ???             _A Tribute to John Coltrane_

    I kinda scewed on the Coltrane CD.  I thought it *was* Coltrane,
not just a bunch of guys doing Coltrane songs.  Guess I'll pay closer
attention next time.
    I also got two videos.  One on Louis Armstrong and the other on
Bessie Smith.  I realize this does a lot to give you names and such,
but at least its a way to acces new sounds and at least the older
jazz.  Good luck.






======================================================================
Rev. Dave Hall                |  "It's not the voting that's
usts060@rust1.dpo.uab.edu     |   democracy, it's the counting.
                              |     -- Tom Stoppard
======================================================================
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Organization: York University
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.allmusic
Date:         Thu, 21 Jan 1993 21:42:40 EST
From:         MMORSE@YORKVM1.BITNET
Subject:      Re: Strange Time sigs

John McLaughlin's first record, with an English group (John Surman
on baritone) starts with a blues in 11/4 called "Follow Yor Heart";
it was covered later on a Joe Farrell record.
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From: bt979@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Jeff Preston)
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.allmusic
Subject: Re: Trying to keep up
Date: 21 Jan 1993 18:46:42 GMT
Organization: Case Western Reserve University, Cleveland, OH (USA)
Reply-To: bt979@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Jeff Preston)
NNTP-Posting-Host: hela.ins.cwru.edu


In a previous article, ST402711@BROWNVM.BITNET (Tim Johnson) says:

>because the info is recorded digitally in a fixed number of bits,
>there is a fixed maximum number.  that means that the CD output
>has a fixed maximum volume, which is that largest storeable
>number run through the D/A and any amplification stages - all
>of which are fixed in the CD player.

>if the CD is well engineered, the maximum volume of the music
>to be recorded will be recorded at a level close to the maximum
>integer able to be stored on the CD.

  For the most part, I think you're right on this count, but I don't
have that much faith in the engineers. You'd be surprised how "low" the
peaks are on some of my CDs. But in general, I don't have to adjust very
far in either direction switching between CDs. Certainly nowhere near as
much as you would on vinyl.

>if the processing is all done digitally, I suppose the loudest
>bit can be found, and all the data scaled to fit on CDs, if the
>digital processing uses more bits than the CD, or if the recording
>is done at a relatively low level (although that would imply less
>real dynamic range.)

  Yeah, that "loudest bit" thing makes perfect sense. I suppose that's
what Marsha's CDP-297 is looking for when she pushes the "peak search"
button, but it's not perfect (hey, what do you want from a $139 CD
player?). The really short duration peaks (transients) don't take up
enough bits to catch the player's attention sometimes, but if we're 
talking about taping to CrO2 w/Dolby, I don't think it's gonna result
in audible distortion should you decide to trust the CDP-297's first
impression of the peak. Especially if you do it on a tune-by-tune basis,
as in while putting together a compilation tape.

>of course the levels jump around - it is not a fixed level of output,
>it is a fixed *maximum* level of output.

  Has to be thataway... there has to be a "largest number" you can write
in that format. 16-bit?  Who's the compunerd here?
  The one factor you leave out here, TTT, would be the frequency response
of the tape deck *and* of the tape itself. A max bit at 50Hz versus a max
bit at 1000Hz versus a max bit at 17,500Hz -- which one will likely peg
the meters more?  If you can say "all the same," you gots a nice tape
deck!  Still, the tape would know the difference.

  Jeff ("n.n.")

-- 
| Jeff Preston - owner and moderator of | "We don't  get  many requests |
| the  Allan Holdsworth discussion list |  for recent history."  -- Mr. |
| *** To subscribe, send e-mail to: *** |  Atoz, from the '69 Star Trek |
| <atavachron@morekypr.morehead-st.edu> |  episode _All Our Yesterdays_ |
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Date:         Thu, 21 Jan 1993 14:08:00 N
From:         "Out,
              out - you'll not feel the fall-out..." <OLIVOTTO@ITNCISCA.BITNET>
Subject:      Gabriel and MTV -- Len's question belatedly replied

Late though it is, Len asked:

>I have a question i don't watch MTV at all, but i noticed several post
>that mentioned Peter Gabrial being on MTV, I was under the impression
>(from some of the posts) that the Allmusic'rs were not approving of MTV artists
>I'm not saying anything derogatory about P.G. i'm just wondering what you
>think of him being on there, he's also in Billboard's top 50 (maybe 40).

        I am not against MTV per se (or, better, against VideoMusic, the
Italian version of MTV which usually broadcasts 50% of MTV's stuff). It's
like commercial radio: a lot of what you hear is poor to say the least,
but not *everything* is poor.
        Gabriel has produced probably some of the best videos of history,
though I admit I haven't seen "Digging In The Dirt" yet. "Shock The Monkey",
"I Don't Remember" and "Sledgehammer" are masterpieces in themselves. Also,
consider that the first of these appeared in 1982, and music clips were not
as widespread as they're now. The last of these actually defined a style
of making videos, for a while.
        At the same time, I don't like some of the things he did, but it's
more because of an aesthetic factor than anything else.
        The only real thing I defend is that Gabriel, like it or not, has
often proved to be a few years in advance of other people. I'm not sure this
theorem holds with "Us", a good album but a bit less innovative than, say,
"Security".
        By the way, Leonard: I'm happy you picked an album by the man and
liked it. I seem to remember it was "Passion", which is probably the most
difficult thing he did. A good starter, but I suggest you to pick at least
one of the others if you're interested -- they're a totally different thing.

        Ciao, Marco
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Date:         Tue, 26 Jan 1993 14:40:03 CST
From:         Paul Heroy <HEROY@LSUVM.BITNET>
Subject:      AMA crap

I usually pay no attention to the stupid award shows, the Grammys, the
Oscars, the American Music Awards etc., but a friend of mine just had to
tell me about the AMA - apparently this was last night? Beats the shit out
of me. Anyway, apparently these awards are based totally on *sales* - I
don't know whether to laugh or puke. I mean, at least they're *honest* about
it being nothing but a popularity contest, but why the fuck do they need to
tell us this shit? "OH, congratulations, yes, you are the biggest selling
dumbfuck out there, and now all the people who bought your garbage can rest
assured that they are completely NORMAL. Yes, if you bought Michael Bolton's
latest smegma you deviate at most .1% from the expected average American
consumer profile and can cease worrying that you have anything resembling
individual taste or a brain, and should continue buying what we tell you to."

Masturbation at its finest. I just hope I don't choke on my vomit while I
laugh :-)

Thanks for letting me rant,
Paul

ONMC: I saw Henry Rollins briefly on MTV last night, talking about his new
recording, Boxed Life - recordings of his spoken word tours. I heard an
excerpt of this on our college station in which he joked about John Bon
Blowme, I nearly peed :-) (I don't think he actually called him that, that's
just me being obscene.) Rollins has always struck me as an interesting guy
and I'd like to hear more of this stuff. He also congratulated Suzanne Vega
for gracefully chopping up Howard Sternman in an interview on his show. Hey
Ben, you still out there? Wanna tell us more about HR?
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Date:         Wed, 27 Jan 1993 09:35:00 -0800
From:         SYSMGR@CBOS.UC.EDU
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On Fri, 22 Jan 1993 11:11:43 EST Bloomdido oppined:

>> . . . .  Actually, what I
>> need is a program to find all the highs and lows & creatively adjust the
>> dynamics proportionally to fit the tape.  This is the computer age, after
>all.

>That's called gain-riding, work that highly-trained (and commensurately paid)
>engineers used to do. You wanna throw more people out of work with automation?

Sure, that's what us computer geeks get trained to do, right? (-: (I have this
crrrrrazy image of a gain-rider, dusting off his chaps, and swaggering
bowlegged into the bunkhouse after a long day chasing them highs and lows)

Actually, though, I just need a brute force program for the home market, for
my tapes.  I mean, if I'm using tape, I've already accepted a certain loss.
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Date:         Tue, 26 Jan 1993 19:05:34 EST
From:         Ilia <CC29@IONA.BITNET>
Subject: Re: Music diversity

> > >I like a majority of different styles of music, I find something worthy in
> > >every type of music out there.  I mostly listen to what people deem
> > >"Alternative" (i.e. Smiths, Concrete Blonde, Depeche Mode, Pet Shop Boys,
> > >etc...), but I've been known to like groups and artists diverse such as
> > >Amy Grant, Mary Chapin-Carpenter, Pink Floyd, and Metallica.
> >
> >   I've always been amused by the folks who say "I have really broad
> > tastes in music, I like all kinds of rock."
> >
> >                             -Tim
>
> Those were the artists that popped into my head Tim.  Lets see, I love
> anything that Verdi has written, I love Motzart, Liszt, Gershwin, love all
> the Rogers and Hammerstein musicals, a big Perry Como fan, a big Sinatra
> fan, a big Placido Domingo fan, and I like Ice-T too...you should see my
> album collection...its quite...unique...

           Well, I've always been fascinated by the folks who say "I am
very open-minded. I like everything". Maybe I don't understand
something, but a big fan of Sinatra who likes Pink Floyd? Unless you
don't take seriously either one, it's beyond me how you can combine such
fondness. As for the album collection... I was at MHB's house ten days
ago... don't think you can surprise me with anything... unique...

         Macbeth, the cop killer.

P.S. Oh yeah, forgot to tell ya: most of the stuff you listed falls
into the category of 'popular music' (tm). Beware!
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Date:         Thu, 28 Jan 1993 11:37:00 -0800
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And David Malbuff responded:
> Hell, no, it isn't. Maybe you're thinking of Pat Boone whitebread cover
> versions of Little Richard tunes. Chuck Berry, Elvis, Jerry Lee Lewis, Carl
> Perkins, Buddy Holly, Little Richard, the Coasters, and on and on...
> watered down? No way.

    I'm gonna have to take issue with you on this one.  Have you
every heard Willie Mae (Big Momma) Thorton?  Go ahead find her
version of _Houndog_  then listen to Elvis.  I'm sorry, there is no
comparison.  The white audience (the mass audience, the ones the
record labels made music for) could not handle the raw energy of
Black Music.  Chuck Berry, Little Richard and Fats Domino played weak
versions of the blues music that was so popular among the black
audience.
    I find most early rock 'n' roll hard to listen to.  Especially in
the wake of the real, hard core, gut wrenching music that was
available at the same time.  Rock 'n' Roll was just baby pap, to
pacify white, teenage audiences.


======================================================================
Rev. Dave Hall                |  "It's not the voting that's
usts060@rust1.dpo.uab.edu     |   democracy, it's the counting.
                              |     -- Tom Stoppard
======================================================================
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Date:         Mon, 25 Jan 1993 21:23:45 EST
From:         Sonia Kovitz <skovitz@MAGNUS.ACS.OHIO-STATE.EDU>
Subject:      ___Transmutation___

_Transmutation_
    disorientation and assault ascending
 descending
          space-jazz cruising
   up and out in an arc around into deep dark down and dirty funk basement
ghetto-blaster earth-mining in the night city of a far
                                                      distant
                                                              squabbling
moon "ain't nuthin but a party baby" cobweb glistening in a wet alley
                                                                 Buckethead
insect-life thrusts his probe out the
  cool blue electric
                    cell of a prism crystalline
                                                subterranean motion
                                                                   machine
hot and heavy  take your time  take your time
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Date:         Tue, 26 Jan 1993 10:41:57 EST
From:         Tim Johnson <ST402711@BROWNVM.BITNET>
Subject:      Re: Take-home exam

>Les Miz & Phantom of the Opera? "Successful" syntheses of pop &
>CLASSICAL? Lord, my chains are heavy; do I have to treat the poor
>list to another adjective-studded screech about what an obscene
>hack Andrew Lloyd Webber is? Please, Tim, don't bring this ugly
>farago on us all again..
>Michael

We stumble across the same problem again.  How do we define
"successful."

I don't care for ALW at all, myself.

But....

Is he a success with the public?

lots of people think so.

                        -Tim
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Date:         Tue, 26 Jan 1993 11:23:39 EST
From:         a memory engraved upon your soul <REWOICC@ERENJ.BITNET>
Subject:      Re: Alternative..?

on the other hand, "alternative" has also come to mean that collection of
college rock characterized by whatever it is that the college music journal
and 120 minutes has decided to be deemed "alternative" for that month.

once upon a time, i would scream, "how do you define that?!?" in faces of
all who say they listen to alternative music. now though, i nod blindly,
understand what they are talking about and continue to let them suffer
in their delusions.

it's just another label. misapplied, perhaps, but a label nonetheless. on
the average, everyone knows what people mean by it, so why argue whether
or not it really means something?

woj
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Date:         Tue, 26 Jan 1993 14:55:03 EST
From:         Tim Johnson <ST402711@BROWNVM.BITNET>
Subject:      Re: Take-home exam

>    Here is a parallel with science: there are 'real scientists' who
>make the discoveries, advance their fields, etc., and there are
>'popularizers of science' who make those discoveries available to many
>people outside the narrow circle of specialists by putting complex ideas
>into a form that can be easily digested by dilettantes. And so do some
>composers. And ALW is one of them. And while the 'popularizers'
>don't contribute directly to whatever they are describing,
>they are partially responsible for general public's education, which is
>not that bad, if you think about it.

  Ilia makes a good analogy...but....

  Well, I'll just say that I've met few "popularizers" of
science that I really like.

  (And I'm changing my mind about my previous post anyhow.
I think of ALW less as 'crossover' and more as 'popularizer.'
Two very different things.  In fact, I think much of this
stuff labelled crossover is like that.  _Hush_, for example.
Bleah.)

                           -Tim
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From: hjv@phil.ruu.nl (Hendrik Jan Veenstra)
Subject: Time signatures
Organization: Department of Philosophy, University of Utrecht, The Netherlands
Date: Tue, 26 Jan 1993 21:31:03 GMT


Ken Koester <MAINT2@ERS.BITNET> writes:

>On Sat, 16 Jan 1993 12:50:48 -0500 <mjferzig@MIDWAY.UCHICAGO.EDU> said:
>>
>>I'm curious - What is the strangest (conventional - not aleatoric or
>>something - I'm referring to numbers here) time signature that you've ever
>>seen / heard in a piece of music? What was your experience with it like?
>>Was it hell to perform, if you did so, or easier than it looked?
>>
>Umm. . . probably 3/64 in a piece by Telemann.  It's the "Gulliver" suite.
>Gets down to 256th notes at one point.  It's a joke, of course, but still.

I like the 3/64... :-)  But on the original question: what is "strange" in
this respect?  Many people would find a 7/4 strange when they're only used to
playing Mozart, but many "modern" musicians wouldn't blink at the sight of
a 7+5+3/4 I think.  I used to use non-conventional signatures a lot (and 
sometimes still do), so there's little I would find strange. 
Probably the weirdest t.s I ever used was a 1/16 -- although many would
find a 15/4 or 11/8 strange enough... :)

On a related track: what I always find fascinating is how some composers are
able to use non-conventional time-signatures and make them sound like e.g. a
straight 4/4.  I mean: they use strange signatures in a non-obvious way.
E.g. Brubeck's "Take Five" has a very nice swing and it wouldn't be a problem
to dance to it, even though it's not 3/4, 4/4 or 6/8.  Same holds for
"Everything's allright" (from Jesus Christ Superstar) which is also 5/4
but sounds very "normal" - i.e. "4/4-ish".

O, and another funny example crosses my mind.  I've always loved "Golden Brown"
from the Stranglers -- a plain 3/4 with an occasional 4/4 mixed in, which
"throws you off your feet" somehow.  I always thought they deserved to have
a hit with this song, not just because (as opposed to nearly all other 'pop')
they use a strange (and basically non-commercial) time-division, but also
because the song is centered around vocals and harpsichord (which isn't too
commercial either IMO :).

Enough for today...

Hendrik Jan


--
Hendrik Jan Veenstra    hjv@phil.ruu.nl  *  How can I save my dreams
Dept. of Philosophy                      *  in the nightmare, in the flood
University of Utrecht                    *  But I try.
The Netherlands                          *
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Date:         Thu, 21 Jan 1993 10:15:03 PST
From:         Mike <MASUDA@SJSUVM1.BITNET>
Subject:      Re: Marco's America in 364 lines (contains ALLMUSIC reunion
              chronicle)

I just read Marco's massive post on ALLMUSIC.
I need to say a few things... ;)

Despite the fact that Marco had a cold and I was suffering from
  basic sleeplessness, it was one of the highlights of my life
  meeting with a kindred spirit from the other side of the world.
I thank Marco for "appraising" our meeting, and am kinda blushing
  at his flattery (haw GARSH....!).
I have one and only one thing to say that can possibly be "bad" about our
  meeting--Marco is really talkative and will take initiative in
  engaging in conversation if you're not on the ball...  :) :)
I don't mean this as an insult, actually.  Marco is probably more
  articulate in English than I am!  I enjoyed talking with him
  (and listening to him ;)  ) throughout our short meeting.

Well I hope Marco gets settled in soon, because he's got a LOT
  of ALLMUSIC catching up to do, despite his warning to not start
  interesting discussions while he was away :)

Thanks a googolplex Marco,
Mike.

I also have to say welcome back to Mike McGuire (the person
who provided staying quarters for Marco in SF) and many thanks to him
and his wife Marsha for making the meeting possible!
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Date:         Fri, 22 Jan 1993 13:48:37 PST
From:         Mike <MASUDA@SJSUVM1.BITNET>
Subject:      Re: Mainly, this is for Foxy Bob
              22 Jan 1993 16:21:59 -0500 from <gmgettie@THAMA1.APGEA.ARMY.MIL>

Gary said:

>Cool Beans.

This is not a music thang, but I'm wondering where this phrase
came from.  I've been using it lately also, and it's addicting.

visualise whirled peas,

Mike.

OMC:  Kate Bush's new album should be out in the springtime, acc.to
    good ol' Mr. Gabriel.  Cool Beans.
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