HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: sommar@enea.se (Erland Sommarskog)
Subject: Re: Check out this Bob. [was Re: Macedonia]
Organization: Enea Data AB
Date: Sun, 30 Aug 1992 11:18:17 GMT

efstse@epsilon.eecs.nwu.edu - who sign his articles "Max" but whose
signature and username makes me believe that it is our favourite
doctor, Serafim Efrastiadis (with reservation for the spelling) -
writes:
>Aha! So there is an ethnicity called "Macedonian", right? Well, surprise,
>surprise: WRONG.

Of course there is. Since 1944 at least. Denying facts doesn't make
them disappear.

>The only piece of land that has been called Macedonia since
>2,000+ B.C. is situated inside the Greek borders. Check out a good map
>(historical if possible).

This person is either grossly misinformed, or a big liar. A good
place to start is Encyclopedia Italiana from around 1930. Under
the article of Macedonia you find a map which delineates the modern
geographical region of Macedonia. You will find that it includes
virtually all of The Republic of Macedonia, and even a slice of
present-day Kosovo. Curiously, not all of present-day Greek Macedonia
is included. To get a understanding of that is not an occasional
misinformation, you can check with the French "Le Grand Encyclopdie"
from 1900, which gives no map, but a verbal description which is
quite consistent with the Italian map. I also recommed trying
The Times Atlas of History for the Roman province of Macedonia.

People are complaining about Macedonian propaganda, but unfortunately
the Greek propaganda is not an inch better. Rather the opposite.

>Greece is not supporting Servia and to
>prove this it has prohibited the exportation of goods and petrol to ALL its
>northern neighboring countries (Albania, X-Yugoslavia, Bulgaria) in order to

Is this really true? Are exports to Bulgaria from Greece not permitted?
As this person seems to nothingu what he is talking about, I assume
this is completely false.

>Croats are Catholics, Serbs are Orthodox, and Muslims are simply fanatics).

So the Serbs who shells Vukovar, Sarajevo etc into piece are not
fanatics? The Serbs who insists of controlling the Albanians in
Kosovo are not fanatics? And people like you who spread lies and
propganda for the sake of a name are not fanatics?
-- 
Erland Sommarskog - ENEA Data, Stockholm - sommar@enea.se
F|rst till kvarn f}r f|rst vankiva
Xref: sparky soc.culture.greek:8329 soc.culture.europe:8006 soc.culture.turkish:9595
From: sera@zuma.UUCP (Serdar Argic)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.greek,soc.culture.europe,soc.culture.turkish
Subject: Re: THE NEW BULLY OF THE BALKANS
Date: 31 Aug 92 01:32:19 GMT





<4365.3248.uupcb@factory.com>
michael.polymenakos@factory.com (Michael Polymenakos) 

>  Hasan: Keep that keyboard going fella. 

I am sure he will.

>  nation exists), PLUS the Aboriginal government of Australia! In 18 years
>	  the TPseudoRNC has only managed 1 (Turkey). I'm dissapointed at you.

And such recognition is ample for the time being. 

Serdar Argic

                     'This war quickly developed into one of extermination. 
                      We closed the roads and mountain passes that might 
                      serve as ways of escape for the Tartars [Turks] and 
                      then proceeded in the work of extermination.'
                                                       (Ohanus Appressian)
From: sommar@enea.se (Erland Sommarskog)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.greek
Subject: Re: Question on Macedonia
Date: 23 Aug 92 22:06:32 GMT
Organization: Enea Data AB

James Dimos Dimarogonas (jdd1@cec1.wustl.edu) writes:
>Just curious.  I've seen other people saying that the goverement
>of  Skopje was elected,  and others not.  I personally remember
>some form of elections being held, to decide whethere they would
>remain part of Yugoslavia or not.  Were these also elections for
>goverement?  If they were, could any one post the results and a
>breif explanation of the parties involved?  Thanks.

There were multi-party elections held in Macedonia in, ehum,
the exact point in time escapes me, but I believe sometime 
in 1990, before the elections in Serbia which were in December.

The referendum on independence took place on September 8th 1991,
if memory serves me right.

Exactly how many parties who ran, I do not know, but from the
RFE/RL report I posted recently we can deduce there were at
least there. Ex-communists, the nationalist VRMO(?) and an
Albanian party.

Whether Kiro Gligorov was directly elected by the people I don't
know, but I would presume so, since at least Milan Kucan in 
Slovenia, Tudjman and Milosevic were elected in direct elections.
If he wasn't elected directly, it seems reasonable to assume
that he was elected by the parliament, a method which is applied
elsewhere as well.
-- 
Erland Sommarskog - ENEA Data, Stockholm - sommar@enea.se
Life is wonderful when the wonderlife is full
From: schoinas@fox.cs.wisc.edu (Yannis Schoinas)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.greek
Subject: Re: paranoia and relevanc
Date: 4 Sep 92 20:30:12 GMT
Organization: U of Wisconsin Madison - Computer Sciences

rsakella@p4.cs.man.ac.uk (Rizos Sakellariou) writes:

>In <1992Sep3.899.10610@dosgate> someone who signs as "Lubi"(?) but is using 
>the account of mike.vanier@canrem.com (mike vanier) writes:

>>It was Greece, via Mitsotakis via his
>>minister, that "proposed", the name Slavo-Macedonia...
>Right. A name that was rejected by Gligorov's government. Since
>the same government decided to use the symbol of the kingdom of Ancient
>Macedonia (the Vergina star) on its flag, I understand that this government
>believes that people of this republic have roots that trace back to the 
>ancient Macedonians. Again the same question:

>Which is the historical basis of the allegation that there is a continuity
>between ancient Macedonians and today's people living around the region
>of Skopie?

Hmm, let me make a try. The Slavs that came into the Balkans were
soon to be romanized and for almost 800 years they were citizens 
of the empire. Now, in the eastern roman empire the influence of
the hellenic civilization was enormous. But this exact influence
(on the east mediterenean) was made possible only after the conquests
of the Great Alexander and the short lived hellenistic kingdoms. In
fact, the christian religion became something more than a jewish
heresis because of the greek speaking jews that were leaving in
the greek speaking towns all over eastern mediteranean. Of course,
the above don't show the continuity, rather the common heritage 
of the Balkan peoples.

					 Bye,
					Yannis.
From: alexees@wam.umd.edu (ALEXANDROS G. HOBSON)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.greek
Subject: Personal yia ton 0avasn Stoubo apo VT
Date: 29 Aug 92 18:44:27 GMT
Organization: University of Maryland, College Park

Oavasn apo Virginia Tech, av m'akous, steile mou email.
Telika, dev kataferame va avtalla3oume email addresses s'ekeino to party.
Elpizw va ta poume suvtoma,

Alexis
From: michael.polymenakos@factory.com (Michael Polymenakos)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.greek,eunet.politics,talk.politics.misc
Subject: Re: Stop bullying and intimidating greek people
Date: 27 Aug 92 23:26:00 GMT
Article-I.D.: factory.4178.3248.uupcb
Reply-To: michael.polymenakos@factory.com (Michael Polymenakos)
Distribution: world
Organization: Invention Factory's BBS - New York City, NY - 212-274-1243v.32bis


SK>From: sk@groo.sunbim.be (Sasa Konecni)

SK>When Noel Malcolm a journalist from "The Spectator" was in
SK>North Greece he wrote the following:

 I am not familiar with the Spectator so tell me, who publishes it?
Circulation figures, party affiliations, etc? This seems to be the only
paper that you are quoting.

You also forget to mention that Florina is 15Km (~9miles) from the
Greek-Vardar border. In this proximity to the border, some Slav populations
may exist. How may people are we talking about? There are villages in Greece
with 10 people.

In any case, when was the last time that Slav population was present
in (Greek)Macedonia in any major numbers?
Before 1913? Does not count. We are making no claims based on the large
greek population in Vardar before 1913. Don't make any claims on Greece
based on Slav populations there before 1913.

Do you now see why we object to the name "Macedonia" for Vardar? Your claims
about (Greek)Macedonia are unacceptable and false. Why would we recognise
any state that has patterns on our territory, and makes false claims about
internal Greek affairs?

You are making claims like these, and then you wonder why the EEC and the
US and the UN and all the countries in the world except 3 or 4 do not
take you seriously.If your claims were 0.0001% legitimate, you would have
achieved more recognition than this. Or do you believe that there is some
sort of evil conspiracy involving the entire world against "M"?

SK>     The public hysteria over the "Skopje Republic"
SK>[Macedonia] certainly does not help. The weekly nationalist-
SK>extremist newspaper Stohos ("Aim") now issues regular personal
SK>threats against these individuals or their friends, listing

 Stohos is a stupid publication with next to 0 readership and 0 credibility.
I suspect most of their issues are bought by anti-Greek propagandists.
At the May 31 demonstration everyone tried to keep them out, but they
sneaked in anyway. Real morons. I saw a 70-year old, probably an
ex germanotsolias, distributing leaflets and only my respect for his age
kept me from telling him to go ot hell. Another Stohos moron attacked
some Greek students who told him to go away and caused trouble.
Stohos puts more Greeks on their "lists" than all other nationalities
combined. BTW stohos means "Target", not "Aim".


SK>Sasa.

Michael.

---
 . SLMR 2.1a . Back Up My Hard Drive? I Can't Find The Reverse Switch!
From: cc433336@LANCE.ColoState.Edu (Constantinos A. Caroutas)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.greek
Subject: Exocet (was Re: Ena sxolio gia tis ellinikes frgates.)
Date: 27 Aug 92 17:07:26 GMT
Organization: Colorado State U. Engineering College

In article <1992Aug27.020552.19913@latcs1.lat.oz.au>, jd@latcs1.lat.oz.au
(John Dimogotsis) writes:
>
>apotelesmatikoi se apostasi 30km (Penguin), 40-60 km (Exoset) kai 100+ km 

Ta Exocet eivai pia apnrxaiwmeva. Meta pou tnv patnsave oi Aggloi sta
Faklands, avaptujave texvologia pou mporei va ta avtimetwpisei
apotelesmatika. To Stark tnv eixe patnsei stov Persiko Kolpo giati o
kapetavios tou dev to gurise katallnla otav eidave sto ravtar ta Irakiva
aeroplava kai to ravtar tou ploiou pou skopos tou ntav n avixveusn
blnmatwv oute kav pnre xampari oti erxotav Exocet (tote ta Irakiva
aeroplava qewrouvtav filia).
--
Constantinos A. Caroutas

"It's easy to make mistakes when others will be held responsible."
From: kiffisia.bbs@cybernet.cse.fau.edu
Newsgroups: soc.culture.greek
Subject: PERISOTERA ...
Date: 27 Aug 92 20:35:18 GMT
Organization: Florida Atlantic University, Boca Raton

EPISEIS PROTEINW TA PARAKATW THEMATA GIA POSTINGS :

     PSARONTOYFEKO : GEGONOTA KAI TOPOTHESIES GIA KALO PSAREMA.

     ATHINA TO BRADY : MERCEDES , LA PLAYA H BOYSIOYS ?

     DIAFAS ENANTION KOKKALH : POIOS THA YPERYSXISEI ?

     PANATHINAIKOS : POSO THA BOITHISI H METGRAFH TOY  GALLI ?

     WINDSURFADES  : POY TRABIXATE MPOTSA FETOS !? 
                     (EGW STH MYKONO ME 6 MPOFORT TELH IOYNIOY)

     MPATSOI KAI TROXAIOI : GEMISAI O TOPOS H' IDEA MOY EINAI ?



AYTA KAI ALLA POLLA THEMATA PROS SIZITISI EXW PROTEINEI GIATI 
BARETHIKA THS MALAKIES ME TA TOYRKOGOYKOSLAVIKOMAKEDINIKA .

OLO GRAFOYME KAI FONAZOYME KAI OLOI LENE :

"DONT' CRY LIKE GREEKS" EIPWTHIKE STO ITALIKO KOINOBOYLIO !!

KAI STO TELOS DINOYME TO BRABEIO ONASH 92 STON TED TURNER, POY 
SE KATHE XARTH TON BALKANION DEIXNEI TA SKOPIA KAI THN THESSALONIKH
SAN THN IDIA XWRA "MAKEDONIA" .  MPRABO MAS !!

TETIES BLAKEIES KANOYME KAI META MAS FTAINE OI KOYTOFRAGOI ,
FTAIOI O DIAITITHS, POYLITHIKE TO MATS K.O.K.

AS MILISOYME LOIPON GIA ALLA THEMATA POIO ENDIAFERONTA !

AEKARA OLE !
From: vassil@cs.wisc.edu (Vassil Peytchev)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.greek
Subject: Re: Macedonian recognition (was Re: The Aboriginal Government ...)
Keywords: Macedonia, parlament
Date: 23 Aug 92 21:33:13 GMT
Organization: U of Wisconsin CS Dept

|> In article <389.2116.uupcb@factory.com> michael.polymenakos@factory.com 
(Michael Polymenakos) writes:

|> >  Sasa, your postings are well written, but your knowledge of history is
|> >  incomplete. So far you seem to be unaware of:
    [rest deleted]

He also wrote:

|> Article: 13995 of soc.culture.greek
|> From: michael.polymenakos@factory.com (Michael Polymenakos) 
|> Newsgroups: soc.culture.greek
|> Subject: QUESTION ON MACEDONIA
|> Message-ID: <3550.3248.uupcb@factory.com>
|>
|> >Just curious.  I've seen other people saying that the goverement
|> >of  Skopje was elected,  and others not.  I personally remember
|> >some form of elections being held, to decide whethere they would
|>
|>  Elections were held, and the Vardar people were allowed to choose
|> between a party composed of ex-communists and none of the above. My
|> understanding is that it was a really close race.
|>
|> Michael.

Michael, your postings are also well written, but your knowledge of recent
events in Macedonia is incomplete. (:^) One would think that since this 
republic's actions are of such vital importance to you and to your country,
you should know that there are between half a dozen and a dozen parties in
their parlament, only one of which is composed by ex-communists.

As far as I remember, the largest party in the parlament is VMRO-DPMNE, which
has x-teen percent of the seats. This party is strongly anti-Yugoslavian,
which is interpreted by the pro-serbian and x-communist parties as 
pro-Bulgarian. I guess some Macedonian netter can give more info on that.

(Note: This is in no way a defence for Sasa's knowledge of history... :^)

Vassil
---
Vassil Peytchev
vassil@cs.wisc.edu
From: by403@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Spiros Triantafyllopoulos)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.greek
Subject: soc-culture-greek@ucbvax.berkeley.edu is gone
Date: 27 Aug 92 03:29:45 GMT
Organization: Case Western Reserve University, Cleveland, Ohio, (USA)


Like the title says, folks; It appears that the posting service
that has been available from berkeley is gone with the wind. Or
so root@ucbvax.berkley.edu says.
 
Did that take care of Mutley?  I dunno. It will probably take
care of Tri*, Gav*, and many more ucbvax posting service users.
Time will tell if another way of mail to news posting will be
available, or if the individuals above will succeed (I have)
in finding new ways to post their news/drivels/whatevers.

So, Hasan, you may want to congratulate your self / your
associates (Hi Ahmet!) as the one(s) that after 7 years managed
to get ucbvax to pull the plug of post-usenet@ucbvax.berkeley.edu.

And in case you're looking, I've heard of the new fax-to-news 
gateway...

Anyhow. If anyone at scg@cs.wisc.edu is reading this, a new way for
posting to scg thru an email will be appreciated. 

Spiros
(my friends call me King Tri*)
From: lmk@wvnvms.wvnet.edu
Newsgroups: soc.culture.greek
Subject: New beginning for Cyprus
Date: 4 Sep 92 15:03:27 GMT
Organization: West Virginia Network for Educational Telecomputing

Although I don't like to dwell in the past, I would like to clarify some
inaccuracies that Besime Erin has posted.

The Greeks and Greek Cypriots NEVER invited Turkey to invade.  Although, as a
guarantor power Turkey had the right to intervene and restore the constitution,
on which premise they claim they did, they had no right to displace 200,000
Greek Cypriots, no right to import population from mainland Turkey, no right to
rape and plunder, no right to desecrate churches and cemeteries, and no right
to
keep Cyprus divided.  Even if this were done to take revenge on alleged crimes
against the Turkish Cypriots it is still wrong!!  And even if that were the
case, fine.  Turkey has taught us a lesson; Greeks killed Turks and then Turks
killed Greeks and now we are even.  ENOUGH!

As I said in previous posting, we need to have a new beginning.  You seem to
almost enjoy the fact that Cyprus is in shambles.  Since you are a Cypriot
start
thinking like one.  Cyprus should be united and the freedoms religion, and
settlement be respected.  Neither side should sit and wait for the blessings
and
approvals of either Greece or Turkey but rather take the fate of OUR island
seriously and its interests and prosperity should be our guiding and driving
forces.

(I will be going to Cyprus for 3 weeks in September.  I haven't been to the
north part of the island since July 20, 1974 which only seems like yesterday. 
I
hope that some day soon we can all move freely and maybe Besime and I can sit
and drink turkish coffee together.)

Loukis Kissonergis
West Virginia University
Newsgroups: soc.culture.greek,eunet.politics
From: v095qhyg@ubvmsb.cc.buffalo.edu (CONSTANTINOS I. ORFANOS)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.greek
Subject: Re: REQUEST: Greek Gods
Date: 2 Sep 92 23:25:00 GMT
Organization: University at Buffalo
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41

In article <16856EC4C.TSAKETO@cms.cc.wayne.edu>, TSAKETO@cms.cc.wayne.edu writes...
>In article <1992Sep2.192221.5413@news.lrz-muenchen.de>
>dranidis@informatik.uni-muenchen.de (Dimitris Dranidis) writes:
> 
>>
>>Hello,
>>
>>We are giving our workstations names from the 12 Greek Gods of mythology. I
>>remember only 11 of them:
>>
>>Zeus, Hera, Athena,
>>Poseidon, Aphrodite, Hephaestus,
>>Ares, Apollo, Hermes,
>>Demeter, Artemis
>>
>>Can someone remind me the 12th?
>>
>>Dimitris
>>
> 
>I think it is the godess Estia.
> 
>                 Tony.

      I believe it is Hades, the god of the underworld and one of Zeus's 
 brothers (the other is Poseidon) who help overthrow Cronos and made these
 gods the rulers.
From: oueichek@ngulu (Ibaa Oueichek)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.greek
Subject: Re: Kill files: rtin ?
Date: 30 Aug 92 15:02:51 GMT
Organization: IMAG, University of Grenoble, France
X-Newsreader: Tin 1.1 PL4

kanagn@ikaros.cc.uch.gr (Kostas Anagnostakis) writes:
: 
: Yparxei tipota antistoixo twn kill files gia ton newsreader 'rtin' ? 
: 
: Eyxaristw,
: Kostas

 Sorry, don't speak greek !!, But i've read the title. It's VERY easy, just
 select a Mutlu article, and press ^K (^= control key). You'll have a menu
 which will generates the kill file automatically, and then MAGIC, you'll
 discover there are 30% articles less in your favorit newsgroup.

 Hope that helps.

--
Sham(u) ya tha (s)seif(u) lam yaghib(i) | Ibaa Oueichek. oueichek@imag.imag.fr
    Ya jamal(al) majd(i) fi(l) kutub(i) | LABORATOIRE 	BULL-IMAG
Kablak(i) (t)tareekh(u) fi thulmaten    | Grenoble. 
    Baadak(i) staula ala (sh)shuhub(i)  |
					
Newsgroups: soc.culture.greek
From: miscord@mullian.ee.mu.oz.au (Michael Scordilis)
Subject: Bulgarian-Greek relations/minorities.  
Organization: Electrical and Electronic - University of Melbourne 
Date: Wed, 26 Aug 1992 08:00:03 GMT

In article <3965.3248.uupcb@factory.com> michael.polymenakos@factory.com (Michael Polymenakos)  writes:

>LB>remember were in the range of 60 - 80 000 Macedonian Bulgarians who
>LB>remained in Greece after WWI.

>  95% of those were in Thrace, which was Bulgarian from 1913-1917, and was

No.  These people were in western Macedonia.  The aborted Karlov-Politis
protocol was about these people.  In fact, Greece had agreed to baptise those
80,000 slavophones as a Bulgarian minority, but withdrew under the strong 
objections  of Yugoslavia which was since that time (1920's) involved in 
trying to assimilate the Bulgarians of Vardar.
 

>    would be a different matter, but Bulgaria annexed (Greek)Macedonia from
>    1941-1944, and actively participated in the extermination of Greeks

Bulgarian occupation was restricted in eastern Macedonia and part of Thrace.
In other words, in areas with virtually no Slavic population, except of the
Pomaks which are muslim Slavs (now patronized by  the Turks). 

>   Bulgarian gains in the first Balkan War. Salonica was never under Bulgarian
>   control until Hitler handed her over to them.

In fact Thessaloniki has NEVER been occupied or dominated by Slavs. Not in WW1,
not in WW2, not in the middle ages.  It is ironic that the Skopians want to
consider Thessaloniki as the capital of a future united Macedonia, a city 
always foreign to them. Samuil, Simeon, Stefan Dusan, etc, never conquered 
the city. 

>   That I have explained in responce to another posting. Slav populations
>   in the only place where they remained after WWI (Thrace) were withdrawn
>   by orders of Sofia during the advance of the Greek republican army
>   towards the end of the Greek civil war. Sofia's involvement in the Greek

History is being rewritten here!  Change "Thrace" with western Macedonia, and
you will be right.  Also, the slavophones who left, were either pro-Bulgarian
Nazis who terrorized the villages, or communists who joined the retreating
forces of Zahariadis into Albania and Yugoslavia.  Only a few thousand 
remain, of which the majority is hellenized.  The most fanatical Skopians
here in Australia (and I heard that it is also the case in Canada, like the 
aspiring new Prime Minister whose family comes from Kastoria) are in fact 
those who left fearing retributions for their crimes in Greece. In other 
words, like the moslem-Albanian Tsamides of Epirus destroyed by the forces of
the partizan groups of Napoleon Zervas.

Greece should make no apologies for not wanting any of those thugs back. 
Good ridance.


M Scordilis


Michael Scordilis	   	|internet    miscord@mullian.ee.mu.OZ.AU
Newsgroups: soc.culture.greek
From: jyc@leo.Stanford.EDU (Jon Corelis)
Subject: Re: soc.CULTURE.greek
Organization: DSO, Stanford University
Date:  4 Sep 92 16:25:04 GMT

cla04@seq1.keele.ac.uk (A.T. Fear) writes:

>Suggested solutions. Have a group called soc.culture.hellenic where
>politics was not allowed? Set up a group called soc.culture.Macedonia or
>how about soc.culture.(not?)Macedonia just to keep everyone happy.

   This is a good idea in principle, but in practice the experience of
other newsgroups has shown that the morons who insist that everyone in
soc.culture.* has to hear their political spiel again and again and
again aren't going to change their minds just because of a newsgroup
name, so they just crosspost to both the old and new groups.

   I'd encourage everyone to use the nn newsreader, and to ask your
sysadmins to get it if it's not on your machine (I don't know where the
software is myself, but sysadmins who are knowledgeable about the net
should be able to find it.)  nn makes it extremely easy -- vastly easier
than rn -- to kill off unwanted subjects and authors.  
Xref: sparky soc.culture.greek:8194 soc.culture.turkish:9496
From: schoinas@fox.cs.wisc.edu (Yannis Schoinas)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.greek,soc.culture.turkish
Subject: Re: Barbaros (F244)
Date: 29 Aug 92 22:22:56 GMT
Organization: U of Wisconsin Madison - Computer Sciences

serdar@fawlty8.eng.monash.edu.au (Serdar Boztas) writes:

>PS: On a tangent, I find it ridiculous that even *all* the Turkish
>posters on sct could be said to represent Turkish people, let alone Hasan
>Mutlu, on his own. There is a tendency to overestimate the importance
	            ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>of the USENET, maybe it comes from a feeling of self-importance among
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>the participants...

Damned right !!!
Newsgroups: soc.culture.greek