HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: gravil@piaf4.cern.ch (Eric Gravil)
Subject: How to win argument against ...
Organization: CERN, European Research Center for Particle Physics
Distribution: rec
Date: Mon, 31 Aug 1992 15:56:13 GMT


Could someone repost or email me articles about :

How to win argument against.......


Thanks in advance.

Eric,

gravil@piaf4.cern.ch
From: MAILER-DAEMON (Mail Delivery Subsystem)
Newsgroups: rec.food.veg
Subject: Re: The Christian Argument for Vegetarianism
Date: 1 Sep 92 17:03:46 GMT
Organization: Lamont-Doherty Geological Observatory

Although the Bible does not prohibit meat for maintaining
life, I believe it implies that the ideal situation is
a vegetarian diet.  Notice this account in the Old Testament:

" Now God granted Daniel favor and compassion in the sight
of the commander of the officials, and the commander of the
officials said to Daniel, 'I am afraid of my lord the
king, who has appointed your food and your drink; for why 
should he see your faces looking more haggard than the 
youths who are your own age?' Then you would make me forfeit my
head to the king.'  But Daniel said to the overseer whom the 
commander of the officials had appointed over Daniel, Hananiah, 
Mishael and Azariah, 'Please test your servents for ten days, 
and let us be given some vegetables to eat and water to drink. 
'Then let our appearance be observedin your presence, and the 
appearance of the youths who are eating the king's choice food; 
and deal with you servants according to what you see.'  So he listened 
to them in this matter and tested them for ten days.  And at the 
end of the ten days their appearance seemed better and they were 
fatter than all the youths who had been eating the king's choice food."

				Daniel Chapter 1, Verses 9-15  NASB

Let's hear from some of you Seventh-Day Adventists!
-- 
These are my opinions.
+--------------------------+
| David F. Medina          | 
| medina@jake.plk.af.mil   | 
| Voice: 505-846-2018      | 
+--------------------------+


Keywords: 


-- 
Don't blame PL for my opinions
+--------------------------+------------------------------+
| David F. Medina          | USAF Phillips Lab            |
| medina@jake.plk.af.mil   | PL/WSSD                      |
| Voice: 505-846-2018      | Kirtland AFB, NM  87117-6008 |
+--------------------------+------------------------------+
From: georgec@eng.umd.edu (George B. Clark)
Newsgroups: rec.food.veg
Subject: Re: Who is who of rec.food.veg - Version 1
Date: 31 Aug 92 17:14:24 GMT
Organization: University of Maryland

In article <1992Aug31.121939.1249@abo.fi> abulsari@abo.fi (Abhay Bulsari VT) writes:
>A directory of this newsgroup's posters/participants is
>a good idea. To start with, here is one. It is not very
>serious, but we can improve on this one. Please correct
>me if you are in the wrong category, and don't expect n
>answer till 13 September. More people need to be listed
>as well.
>
>Category 0 : Lurking omnivores (Dangerous to your health)
>
>Rich Young	Poor Old Fellow speaks for Kodak and why gelatin is good stuff
>Steve Dyer	Just arguments, sometimes quoting from wrong sources
>Mary Shafer	not so dangerous
>Ted Feuerbach	lot of fire and arguments, avoidable
>George Clark
>

Your wrong, Abhay. I've been a vegetarian for several years. I say
that as I sit here eating my dried beans and corn, during my
lunch break. People who've read my posts in sci.med and rec.food.diet
know this is true.

You infer that since I dislike Jane Heimlich, alternative medicine,
and other such quackery and fraud that there is no way I can also
be a vegetarian.

Don't equate being a vegetarian with being an alternative medicine
advocate. The two have nothing in common.


George Clark
From: jane@bohra.cpg.oz.au (Jane Lean)
Newsgroups: rec.food.veg
Subject: Re: zucchini chocolate cake recipe
Date: 3 Sep 92 02:45:04 GMT
Organization: Computer Power Software

In article <SHAFER.92Sep1112340@rigel.dfrf.nasa.gov> shafer@rigel.dfrf.nasa.gov (Mary Shafer) writes:
>
> When we were in Australia in January, 1991, there was an article about
> what to do with the abundant zucchini crop in the Sydney Morning
> Herald.  

The SMH sure gets heavy to carry home in the mornings with that bumper
zucchini crop!  (Sorry, I'm being pedantic :-)

On a serious note, somewhere, I have a recipe for zucchini pickles, which
use up the big ones quite successfully.  They're good on fresh crusty
bread.  I'll try and remember to hunt it up and post it.  If I get busy
and you're desperate for this recipe, mail me.

Jane

> Mary Shafer  DoD #0362 KotFR NASA Dryden Flight Research Facility, Edwards, CA
>                        "A kill is a kill."  Anonymous


-- 
Jane Lean                                                 jane@bohra.cpg.oz.au
CP Software Export Pty Ltd                               Phone:  +61-3-8230213
ACN 006 640 133  (A Division         "They're gonna hang some new stars in the 
of the Computer Power Group)          heavens tonight."     -- Laurie Anderson
Newsgroups: rec.food.veg
From: altar@beaufort.sfu.ca (Ted Wayn Altar)
Subject: Re: So-called "vitamin D"
Organization: Simon Fraser University, Burnaby, B.C., Canada
Date: Wed, 2 Sep 1992 00:42:54 GMT

Steve insulting writes:
 
[...]
> Tell me, would any of you trust Ted or this Moon guy after
>such a falsehood?  This guy is lying to you, pure and simple. Zealots
>like to spread controversy.  This guy is a zealot, and Ted is
his prophet.
>...
 
Steve, I thought we could move beyond such uncalled for sarcasms
and insulting remarks to a more constructive exchange of information
and dialogue.  Why do you want to here be so derisively insulting
and inflammatory?
 
I would gladly attempt to address any worries or disputes to 
the best of my limited ability that you might have with any 
of the information provided, or how I might have poorly
stated it.  Steve, if you want to engage in civil and reasoned debate, 
then please feel to do so.  I did not in anyway post something I made 
up or that came from disreputable sources.  For you to attack the
credibility of prof. J. Moon and his colleagues here at Simon
Fraser University speaks of an overbearingly presumptuousness and
is simply agonistic.  Prof. J. Moon has published papers on the 
topic of vitamin D and teaches higher level courses on nutrition 
at a graduate university. 
 
All that I ask is that you evince a civility only half
as commensurate with your presumed authority ;-)
 
                                             ted
 
Newsgroups: rec.food.veg
From: michael@sequent.com (Michael Squires)
Subject: Re: an idea
Organization: Sequent Computer Systems, Inc.
Distribution: sqnt
Date: Sat, 29 Aug 92 00:06:59 GMT

lavlba@zia.aoc.nrao.edu (Los Alamos VLBA site) writes:

>SENDER: gdunn@vlbacc.AOC.NRAO.EDU (Gene Dunn)
...
>I would ask you few people to honestly examine your motives for your actions; 
>are you really trying to be appreciative and contributive members of this group
>or are you just trying to perform one-upmanship before a captive worldwide 
>audience?  What you are really achieving is giving the group outstanding 
>examples of just how immature the policy of one-upmanship really is.  Is this 
>the kind of dialog you would proudly show your children and encourage them to 
>emulate?  As so many others have pointed out, nothing is ever resolved by this 
>kind of conduct and, if you really are in fact trying to change the other 
>person's mind, you are doing just the opposite.  Did they ever change your 
>mind?  And as for those of you who send hate mail; have you ever stopped to 
>think of how pathetic such conduct really is and what it says about you?
...
>I would vote against splitting the group and I would ask the few who are 
>ruining it for the rest of us to try to rise above such petty quibbling.  Life 
>is too short and truths are too hard to ascertain without wasting the little 
>time we have on this planet on such foolishness.  And thus you have my two 
>cents worth.

>-Gene  


Here! Here!! I wrote the above message in my mind a couple of different
ways the past few days, but now no need. Gene has done a wonderful job
of articulating my views on this mess. Please, folks, examine your
\purpose/ for contributing to this group - we can work together to
educate and support one another, or we can put our priority on being
rightous. Although I enjoy being right, I've found that I get more
long-term satisfaction from being effective (and nuturing).

BTW - I enjoy reading the point-counterpoint of the various posters - I
learn from the dialog - I just am getting tired of sifting through all
the dreck of a person's message to get at the one gem of an idea.

				Michael Squires
From: mdresser@pbs.org (Melanie Dresser)
Newsgroups: rec.food.veg
Subject: Re: Vegetarian foods with all necessary amino acids?
Date: 31 Aug 92 12:53:58 EDT
Distribution: usa
Organization: PBS:Public Broadcasting Service, Alexandria, VA

In article <1992Aug28.212140.27675@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu>, cdonnell@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (Chris E Donnell) writes:
> continue my healthy but sometimes difficult vegetarian lifestyle.  I am also 
> looking for good mailorder vegetarian companies that sell vegetarian burgers, 
> soybean chese(preferably motzerella grated for pizzas), and anything else that 
> is healthy and tasty.  Thanks again.

You can mail order "meat substitutes" and soy cheese thru
        Apple Valley Market
        1-800-BERRIEN
        9067 U.S. 31
        Berrien Springs, Michigan  49103

Their prices aren't as good as the buying
at the Adventist Book Center Stores, but
it is convenient.  They indicate which of
their products are dairy free, in case this 
is a concern for you.  They also sell nuts,
seeds, soy cheese and other stuff.
I used to order from another place that went
out of business, so I just recently started
ordering from this place.
-- 
**************************************************************
          Melanie L. Dresser	  mdresser@pbs.org    
**************************************************************
"In this world, you must be oh so smart, or oh so pleasant.
Well, for years I was smart; I recommend pleasant.  You may
quote me."  Elwood P. Dowd
**************************************************************
From: howard@iscsvax.uni.edu
Newsgroups: rec.food.veg
Subject: Re: manure
Date: 3 Sep 92 10:01:11 -0500
Organization: University of Northern Iowa

In article <altar.715480601@sfu.ca>, altar@beaufort.sfu.ca (Ted Wayn Altar) writes:
> 
> Somehow (don't ask me how), the logic of your friend's argument
> reminds me about the incident that occurred to our Burnaby RCMP
> station here in B.C., Canada when someone stole all the seats
> from the toilets at the station.  The Mounties' official news
> statement was that, "To date, we still have nothing to go on"
> :-)  :-)

Reminds me of the quote a reporter got yesterday from a woman 
whose home had been wrecked in the hurricane. The only piece of
furniture in the house that survived intact was the toilet, so 
she was sitting on that as President Bush toured the area a couple
of hundrend yards away. She said, "From where I'm sitting, it doesn't
look good."

To the original question, I don't know the answer. I do know that all
vegetation that was in the kennel area doesn't grow anymore, despite
the vegetarian dog food. 

-Mary Howard
Newsgroups: rec.food.veg
From: spratt@src.honeywell.com (Steve Pratt)
Subject: Composting vegetarian dog poop
Organization: Honeywell Systems & Research Center
Date: Wed, 2 Sep 1992 18:03:50 GMT

Now that a sense of humor has apparently returned to this newsgroup (thanks
in large part to Abhay), I thought that it was time to pull out a question
which occurred to me a few weeks ago.  While the subject is somewhat
humorous, I am really interested in a serious answer.  (Abhay, you may feel
free to identify me on your list by this special interest) 

So here it goes ...

Thanks to a recommendation from Mary Howard, my two dogs (see note 1) ,
have been on Nature's Recipe Non-Meat (I'm told that they may be changing
the name to "Vegetarian" :-) for about a month now.  The one dog who had
the sniffles has "miraculously" dried up, although she still occasionally
wheezes.  I'm becoming convinced that this is an affectation that may be
only lightly correlated to any allergies that she might have.  It has
become less frequent, and may disappear entirely, given time.  As Mary
"predicted", they do seem to eat less of it, even by volume which, because
it is less dense, is much less by weight.  The additional beneficial side
effect, which she hadn't mentioned but is obvious in retrospect, is that
they generate substantially less poop!

This begs the additional question:

   Is waste from vegetarian dogs compostible?

I know that "normal" meat-eating dog waste is not, and that (vegetarian)
cow and horse waste is, but I don't know whether this is caused by the
source materials or digestive tract bacteria.  I currently use a system
called "Doggy Dooley" which "digests" the waste until it can pass
"harmlessly" (see note 2) into the ground.  But being able to turn this
waste product into fertilizer would be even better, and amazingly enough,
ties back to a previously posted concern of mine entitled "Organic vs.
cruelty free".

Does anyone know of any references on the subject?

Note 1) For the "pethood is slavery" among you, the dogs are both former
	straight-off-the-street strays.  I did participate in the purchase
	of a (now 10 years old) bred-for-sale Golden Retriever, who eats
	veggie when she visits me, and is now living with my ex-wife.  The
	purchase occurred before I became enlightened :-)

Note 2) The manufacturer assures us.  The product is endorsed by "Garbage"
	magazine, which is far from a hard science journal, and I have not
	done any research to validate the claim.  I would be interested if
	anyone knows the details of this process.  (Shankar?)

Steve Pratt                                spratt@src.honeywell.com
Honeywell Systems & Research Center        (612) 782-7267
Newsgroups: rec.food.veg
From: coleman@leland.Stanford.EDU (Michele Coleman)
Subject: Re: Vegetarian: I don't like vegetables.
Organization: DSG, Stanford University, CA 94305, USA
Date: Mon, 24 Aug 92 00:34:08 GMT

   I recently had a conversation with a cafeteria worker who told me that
he couldn't become vegetarian because he doesn't like vegetables enough.
He was surprised when I told him that I don't eat that many vegetables
either, and he wanted to know what I did eat.

   The problem I have in California is that people's attitude seems to
be, "Oh, you're vegetarian?  You must have done that because you _love_
avocado so much.  What other reason could there possibly be?"  When I
took my Ph.D. examinations I was assured that the caterers would have
vegetarian food for me: this turned out to be avocado and cheese 
sandwiches on butter croissants, probably with mayonaise.  Arrrgh!

   Some of my favorite threads on this newsgroup are when people post
about their own personal experiences and tell anecdotes about their
encounters with the carnivorous world.  I like reading other people's 
stories, even if it's not giving technical information or solving some
problem.  I find it interesting and amusing.  Maybe we could have more
threads like that and drown out the bickering!

Regards,
Michele "day-glo apparatus shattered at 77 K" Coleman
From: ah690549@mbcr.bcm.tmc.edu (Annette C. Hollmann)
Newsgroups: rec.food.veg
Subject: Re: Quitting milk, another reason (was: winning argument w/meat eater)
Keywords: SOYMILK, CALCIUM
Date: 30 Aug 1992 23:36:48 GMT
Organization: Baylor College of Medicine, Houston, Tx

IF YOU THINK YOU DO NOT WANT TO DRINK MILK BUT THINK YOU NEED IT FOR THE
CALCIUM, TRY WESTSOY PLUS. IT IS FORTIFIED TO CONTAIN AS MUCH CALCIUM,
VITAMIN A, VITAMIN D, AND THE B VITAMINS AS REAL MILK. I USE SOYMILK
BECAUSE I CAN ONLY GO SHOPPING ONCE A WEEK, MY FRIGDE IS SMALL, AND A
CLOSED CONTAINER OF SOYMILK NEEDS NO REFRIGERATION. I ALSO PREFER THE
TASTE OF SOYMILK. FOR ECONOMIC REASONS, I STILL DRINK REAL MILK 50% TO 70%
OF THE TIME. JUST WHY IS SOYMILK SO RIDICULOUSLY EXPENSIVE?

ANNETTE

PLEASE EXCUSE MY ALL CAPS



Newsgroups: rec.food.veg
From: brent@myka.questor.wimsey.bc.ca (Brent J. Krawchuk)
Newsgroups: rec.food.veg
Subject: Re: Where to get Soy Milk?
Keywords: sunrise brand, vancouver
Date: Wed, 2 Sep 1992 07:01:53 GMT
Organization: Spontany Institute

The brand I use is the local (Vancouver) Sunrise Soya Drink.
It tastes ok, but is on the watery side. However, and a big "however",
it is very inexpensive: $2.09 for 2 litres! I have only seen it at "Save-On",  
though all the other big grocery chains carry the 1 litre bottles (for about  
$1.50-60.) If you were avoiding SoyMilk because of the cost, you Vancouverites  
now have no excuse.

---
Bj          <brent@myka.questor.wimsey.bc.ca>	
Think, then act.	(NeXTMail desired)
-- 
Bj          <brent@myka.questor.wimsey.bc.ca>	
Think, then act.	(NeXTMail desired)
Newsgroups: rec.food.veg
From: dyer@spdcc.com (Steve Dyer)
Subject: Re: There used to be someone called Michael Traub
Organization: S.P. Dyer Computer Consulting, Cambridge MA
Date: Tue, 1 Sep 1992 17:32:38 GMT

In article <anne.715361863@menaik> anne@cs.UAlberta.CA (Anne J.R. Nield) writes:
>I agree that Michael Traub is/will be missed -- and that the trade-off
>we have got is not a good one.  

That's simply because Ted has taken up the slack with his silly saber rattling.
Traub can do what he likes.  If he's not posting, that's his decision, and
only he can take responsibility for it.

>I really would like to suggest that people respond only to those posts 
>where people seem to be genuinely interested in sharing/exchanging
>information -- and are able to do it in a polite, caring, and concerned
>manner.

But one important point here is that sharing misinformation isn't
polite, caring OR concerned.  What does it mean for someone to
disseminate information which is blatantly wrong about nutrition?
What about the person who reads this, takes it seriously, and then
acts on it, possibly doing themselves damage?  People who post
articles which are essentially prescriptive or fearmongering
need to be absolutely sure that they know what they're talking
about.  I'm thinking of Ted's recent comments on Vitamin D in
particular here, Anne, and not your own personal comments on colon
cleansing.  And my response to him was precisely out of concern that
someone might actually take him seriously.  "Caring" takes a lot
of forms.  I don't think it's "caring" to acts as a megaphone for
someone whose views are idiosyncratic, to say the least.

-- 
Steve Dyer
dyer@ursa-major.spdcc.com aka {ima,harvard,rayssd,linus,m2c}!spdcc!dyer
Newsgroups: rec.food.veg
From: msriram@skink.cis.ohio-state.edu (M G SriRam)
Subject: Re: silk, how is it made?
Keywords: meat-eaters
Organization: The Ohio State University Dept. of Computer and Info. Science
Distribution: na
Date: Fri, 4 Sep 1992 14:10:17 GMT

As someone else pointed out, the silkworm cocoons are boiled to kill
the worm. In India some silk is obtained by an alternative method
which does not involve silk worm killing.  If I recall correctly, here
the cocoon is split open with a knife and the worm is allowed to
escape.

From a silk quality point of view the disadvantage to this method is
that instead of having one long silk thread you have a bunch of
smaller ones which need to be knotted to get a long one.  Fabric
made from this kind of silk has  a somewhat rough appearance and
texture. 

I believe that it was Mahatma Gandhi who campaigned vigorously for
this kind of silk production.

Sriram
From: altar@beaufort.sfu.ca (Ted Wayn Altar)
Subject: Re: Public Statement.
Organization: Simon Fraser University, Burnaby, B.C., Canada
Date: Thu, 3 Sep 1992 01:28:31 GMT

dyer@spdcc.com (Steve Dyer) writes:

>Get real.  Let me tell you what I think is despicable, and I'll call
>it for what it is.

Some people are so very impulsive ;-)


>  This whining by a few individuals who would like
>to turn this into the electronic form of a cockfight, trying to get
>the other hens to peck someone to death.  If I have "dominated"
>this group over the past month it is because of the reactions of Ted
>and Michael who do not seem to respond well when their view of
>reality is challenged, however slightly. 

Well, here we go again.  Permit me to again remind you that your
habit to say demeaning things to those who you would disagree with, 
like that of calling me a "prick" or the "prophet" of an "zealot", 
doesn't seem to me to be a paragon of how to respond well to a
challenge of your view of reality, however slighty. 

But I must admit that what really challenges my view of 
reality is not so much the name-calling as your confessio
fidei that you are entirely free of any misbehavings.
Next, you'll want us to believe that the world really is flat,
without any benefit of references of course.  ;-)

                                   ted
From: dm3o+@andrew.cmu.edu (David F. McWade)
Newsgroups: rec.food.veg
Subject: Re: Public Statement.
Date: 4 Sep 92 03:43:02 GMT
Organization: Fifth yr. senior, English, Carnegie Mellon, Pittsburgh, PA


Rich Young writes:

>In article <0eckgPG00WAx4E6lIR@andrew.cmu.edu> >dm3o+@andrew.cmu.edu
(David F. McWade) writes:

>[...]

>>...Rich Young and/or Steve Dyer... [...]

>>...remind me of the Republican Party in this country (this is
>>an election year in America, and the Republicans are the party of the
>>rich and greedy special interests.)  The Republican Party will make
>>negative personal attacks and then whine about how the Democrats are
>>making the negative personal attacks when the Democrats are merely >using
>>simple factual evidence against the Republicans, which is certainly
>>within the realm of good manners.  

>	I can't speak for Steve, but _I'm_ a registered Democrat.  If you'd
>	like to verify it, call the Monroe County Board of Elections.

Another thing that I should have added on my "Public Statement" was that
Rich is good at taking quotes out of context.  What was meant by my post
was that your TACTICS reminded me of my perception of the Republican
Party's tactics.

Rich, if you're going to take quotes out of context in order to provide
evidence against a person, you ought to be a bit more subtle and less
obvious about it.

Dave
From: zkym02@hou.amoco.com (Keerthi Y. McIntosh)
Newsgroups: rec.food.veg
Subject: Tarla-Dalal Indian Cookbooks
Date: 4 Sep 92 16:58:56 GMT
Reply-To: zkym02@hou.amoco.com
Organization: Amoco


She is my favorite too!  I have only been able to buy or two of her books in India.		Are they all available in the U.S.?  I would love to have more.  She has beautiful pictures and great recipes.   But a word of caution to people not accustomed to hot and spicy food.... she love to use chilies (red, green and anyother color)   When cooking for friends, I usually omit the chilis. The recipes are still VERRRRY tasty... but not so hard on the tummy.	

Keerthi 
Newsgroups: rec.food.veg