HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: steven@jaynes ( Steve Novak  #3000  x2110 )
Newsgroups: talk.abortion
Subject: Re: A question for any MALE prolifer
Date: 10 Apr 92 18:07:25 GMT
Organization: U S WEST Advanced Technologies

> = (Kevin Brawley) writes:
>> = (e elizabeth bartley) writes:

Geez, *another* pro-life Kevin.  What is it about that name?  

(Juuuuust kiddin', Kevin Cochran.  I'm still harumphing Gordon.)

>>Pro-Choice       Anti-Roe                             - E. Elizabeth Bartley

>Interesting tidbit there (Anti-Roe).  We are ALL aware (I hope) that the
>entire case (Roe v. Wade) was built upon a lie.  And the entire pro-death
>movement is based upon obscuring what matters with loud, emotional rhetoric.

Puh-leeze.  Only a putz unaware of Emotional Rescue and the U.S.
Religious Coercion Squad could possibly accuse pro-CHOICERS of that
which is the one identifying characteristic of you forced-birthers.

BTW - forced birthers is dead accurate, no?  ...Though embarrassing for
you to read.  If you want fucking loud, emotional rhetoric, nimrod -
let's examine the accuracy of "pro-death".

Now, slink away to find a REAL life and leave women alone.  

-- 
+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+
| Steve Novak |    |"Nothing to do to save his life..."| 
+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+
steven@jaynes.USWest.Com
Newsgroups: talk.abortion
From: decay@cbnewsj.cb.att.com (dean.kaflowitz)
Subject: Re: The March in D.C.
Organization: AT&T
Distribution: na
Date: Wed, 15 Apr 1992 01:35:17 GMT

In article <1992Apr14.140717.1@kscdl1.ksc.nasa.gov> lockhart@kscdl1.ksc.nasa.gov writes:
> Gee, I hope I don't sound like a man-hater.  I'm not, I *love* men. (I 
> *have* been pregnant, after all.)  I just think this should be a matriarchal
> society! :-)

Not all men think like those who have done you harm, Susy.
If you have read this newsgroup for any time, you know that.

By the way, I would prefer a society that was neither matriarchal
nor patriarchal, but egalitarian.  Either that or a monarchy
with me as monarch.  I would definitely do something to make
it easier and pleasanter for people who want to have children
to do so.

But I wouldn't outlaw abortion.

Dean Kaflowitz


Newsgroups: talk.abortion
From: steven@jaynes ( Steve Novak  #3000  x2110 )
Subject: Re: Eric's Rasmussen Boycott
Organization: U S WEST Advanced Technologies
Date: Wed, 15 Apr 1992 19:35:19 GMT

> = Susy Lockhart writes:
>> = Referring to Eric's David Rasmussen posting (in response to "who is David
>>Rasmussen?):

>Being new on the net, I also didn't know who this was.  And I read your
>boycott response.  It's a joke, right?  This guy didn't really mean all
>this stuff, did he?

He did.  Back then his scattergun buffoonery was actually FUN to take
apart.  

But after his school silenced him for awhile, he came back even worse:
as a spokesperson and sop for that dopey Jack Schmidling - blatant
anti-Semite, general racist, Aryan-nations-like white power dupe and
most likely severely emotionally disturbed crackpot (see talk.politics 
and similar groups for appearances of Schmidling and his doggy ARF radio;
you'll get instant confirmation of my analysis).

Luckily, DJR's been gone AGAIN for a month or so.  Probably got his head
stuck in a paddle wheel again :).



-- 
+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+
| Steve Novak |    |"Nothing to do to save his life..."| 
+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+
steven@jaynes.USWest.Com
From: bense@oasys.dt.navy.mil (Ronald Bense)
Newsgroups: talk.abortion
Subject: Re: "Dances with MorallyQuestionableOnes"[1]
Date: 7 Apr 92 11:28:12 GMT
Reply-To: bense@oasys.dt.navy.mil (Ronald Bense)
Organization: Carderock Division, NSWC, Bethesda, MD

In talk.abortion, fields@zip.eecs.umich.edu (Matthew Fields) writes:
>Poor Ron.  

How'd you know? That's why I spend so much time here:)

>His top shelf is empty.

Yep. Just checked, no more Bacardi Black Label or Jose Cuervo 1800.:(

>He just can't seem to shove things up there.

Well, if I hadn't fallen....

>By projecting management-type-ne ss on a classical musician, of all
>things, he shows his true colors.

EECS - Eretheal Emptiness Conductor's School? True colors? Red? Blue?

>Well, do try cheese spread, Ron.

Damn, I ran out of Brie, again?

Ron
      I've fallen, and I can't reach my beer.
      Could you hand it to me?
Newsgroups: talk.abortion
From: thf2@ellis.uchicago.edu (Ted Frank)
Subject: Re: What the pro-lifers do not tell you
Reply-To: thf2@midway.uchicago.edu
Organization: University of Chicago Computing Organizations
Date: Sun, 12 Apr 1992 22:11:40 GMT

In article <1992Apr9.023825.22758@noose.ecn.purdue.edu> smccabe@author.ecn.purdue.edu (Sarah A McCabe) writes:
>>   condom distribution that was deleted frankly because I couldn't

The strangest things happen when you grep for your name...
-- 
Ted Frank          + "He wanted to be the car rather than the thimble or the
1307 E 60 St, #109 +  hat."  -- District attorney explaining Marc Cienkowski's
U o' C Law Skool   +  murder with bow and arrow of Michael Klucznik in
Chi, IL 60637      +  Doylestown Borough, PA over a game of Monopoly.
Newsgroups: talk.abortion,soc.men,soc.women
From: tpehrson@javelin.sim.es.com (tim clinkenpeel)
Subject: Re: You want to win.
Reply-To: tpehrson@javelin.sim.es.com
Organization: Evans & Sutherland Computer Corporation
Date: Mon, 13 Apr 1992 21:56:48 GMT

forgach@noao.edu (Suzanne Forgach) writes:

>> BTW, abortion is obviously legal.

>But not for long >:-)

you've been saying that for years now, suzzanne.  but then again, spouting
nonsense is your specialty.

>Suzanne.
-- 
warning: my messages are offensive to morons |R| a person is only equal to all 
disclaimer: i exclusively represent myself! ||F|| others when s/he treats them
__________ lick bush in '92! _____________ |||R||| as such; inferior otherwise
>>>==-----+ i am tpehrson@javelin.sim.es.com, tim clinkenpeel i am +-----==<<<
Newsgroups: talk.abortion
From: darkstar@u.washington.edu (Alden Hackmann)
Subject: Re: A Quick Proof
Organization: University of Washington
Date: Thu, 9 Apr 1992 19:47:38 GMT

M. Price writes
> In <1992Apr9.051812.14632@galileo.cc.rochester.edu>  
mjln_ltd@uhura.cc.rochester.edu (Mikeey J. Lin) writes:
 
> >PS Can anyone tell me if the meaning of life is indeed a banana float? :)
> >   (I got into a big debate with a girl about this today after dinner)
>  
>      Either you mean a woman, or the U of R is admitting minors again...
> 
A few women should still be considered girls, and as we know from reading this  
group, most men should still be considered boys if you judge by the maturity of  
their actions.   

--

Alden F.M. Hackmann                             University of Washington
darkstar@u.washington.edu                       Department of Pathology

"You can know, even for a moment, that it's your turn, 
 that you can walk with the power of a thousand generations"  - Bruce Cockburn
Newsgroups: talk.abortion
From: jbrindle@nwnexus.WA.COM (Jennifer Brindle)
Subject: Re: A question for any MALE prolifer
Organization: Northwest Nexus Inc. (206) 455-3505
Date: Mon, 13 Apr 1992 17:32:15 GMT

franklin@ug.cs.dal.ca (Steve Franklin) writes:

>   I don't get this 99.99 % stuff... Wont' even bother responding

That seems to be a standard line of yours when you're in over your head.
Rather than try to understand and formulate a rational reply you "don't
even bother".  You show a hell of a lot of respect there, buddy, and don't
be surprised if others show the exact same respect for you, too. 

>>In <46ztaxb@rpi.edu> cookc@aix.rpi.edu (rocker) writes:

>>>What equivalent responsibility (if any) do you propose for the
>>>MALE who got the potentially aborting woman pregnant?

>I've always felt that a man who gets a woman pregnant should be 
>responsible for alimony (for the child, AND the mother if she was
>employed and is unable to work for any period of her pregnancy...)

But as anyone who's endured a pregnancy, childbirth and is currently
rearing a child can testify, financial responsibility is NOT an "equivalent"
responsibility, and that, dude, is exactly what rocker asked you about.
So, I ask you again, (not that you'll answer because you probably don't 
understand the question and therefore won't "bother")....What equivalent
responsibility do you propose for the male who got the woman pregnant?

>  By the way, I figure, whether I am right or not, why take the chance.
>Just like capitol punishment, once you abort the fetus, there's no
>turning back.

You know, I feel exactly the same way---why take the chance?  Once a woman
jams that coat hanger inside her uterus, there's no turning back.

>if you feel that the kid just isn't for you, then place him/her
>up for adoption.

Uh, excuse me, but isn't that "copping out"?  You said virtually the same
thing with regard to abortion---those who can't handle it are copping out
by having an abortion.

>Abortion is too serious of an option to be treated lightly.

And, so college-student Steve, are coat hangers.  I am old enough to remember
news stories of women who were so desperate as to jab a coat hanger into 
themselves in an attempt at abortion.  It wasn't pretty and it was often 
deadly.  I don't want to go back to that--ever.  You don't seem to care.


Jennifer
From: franklin@ug.cs.dal.ca (Steve Franklin)
Newsgroups: talk.abortion
Subject: Re: Oh! Oh! I just don't know how.. (Was: Implications)
Date: 12 Apr 92 19:46:44 GMT
Organization: Math, Stats & CS, Dalhousie University, Halifax, NS, Canada

In <1992Apr12.181714.29926@mnemosyne.cs.du.edu> kcochran@isis.cs.du.edu (Keith A. Cochran) writes:

>In article <1992Apr12.020819.7670@liebe.uucp> kevin@liebe.uucp (Kevin Brawley) writes:
>>gordons@coopsol.com (Gordon Storga) writes:

>Kevin, go take a look at a photo of Gordon's wife (pant, pant).  Now, go look
>at an ultrasound of a 16 week old fetus (or even a 20 or 30 week old fetus).
>Notice the difference?  I certainly do!
  Ummm, the fetus doesn't need a diet? heh, kidding

>Kevin, you'd be outnumbered arguing with a doorknob.
   Isn't that what he's trying to do on this newsgroup? Not just one
doorknob, but a WHOLE bunch of 'em...

>>Pro-Lifers claim majority because it is exactly correct.  The abortion

>You have some proof of this, or it just more truth-by-blatant-lying, leader
>of the Anti-Choice-Pro-Slavery movement?
   Which group is the "Anti-Choice-Pro-Slavery movement"? And which
leader? I know only "pro-choice-but-only-choice-is-pregnancy" groups.
None of those which you refer to... 

>Yea, there's things like...Wives.  And Lives.  You definitly don't have one,
>and I'd be willing to bet that you'll never get the other.
   You'd be betting poorly. Some women like their men to be behind
their pregnancies. Some women LIKE their men to consider the child a 
gift and appreciate their 9 months of sacrifice. But, it will be
interesting to see how Kevin responds to this. if you said that to 
me I'd laugh in your place, since I assure you I'll have no 
problem with either...
   steve
-- 
aasdSteveFranklin-Subliminal Psychology Major.ks;dlasBlueJaysRULEkasdfeahsdbfl
sd;lfaswoq[eBuyMeAQuadra!!!mbnZMXCNdfsba;KdSPAMiuroqiyetIBMSuxiweuryth'ewr;mxn
qpuepriuPartyOneqtuj;,n.,xnc,kjasFlameMeNot!;lkj;lkgkjd;askElvisLivesjhfquweru
zx.cfranklin@ug.cs.dal.ca,sk;t;lrut[Superboy@ac.dal.cav.zx,Physics!eq3rwkh;oHA
From: gordons@coopsol.com (Gordon Storga)
Subject: Re: Pride
Organization: Stay Awake Software
Date: Sun, 5 Apr 92 18:32:11 GMT

<1992Apr3.040058.3919@midway.uchicago.edu> rivk@midway.uchicago.edu said:
><1992Apr2.011717.7251@coopsol.com> gordons@coopsol.com (Gordon Storga) writes:
>
>>Sounds like I may need to add another to my list of ex-girlfriends.  That
>>is, if you are volunteering Nora?
>
>Purr! I'd be proud to be one of your ex-girlfriends, Gordon.

Oh boy! (I suppose I could have used the gender neutral, 'Oh person!', but I
still have a little chauvinism I guess :-( )

>>Pro-abortion, Pro-person, Pro-women's-rights and ex-boyfriend of Susan,
>>Muriel, Cathi, and 'xxxx', and darn proud of it.
>
>And me!

If I get any prouder there's going to be one heck of an explosion.  but
what a way to go!


Gordon
Pro-abortion, Pro-person, Pro-women's-rights and ex-boyfriend of Susan,
Muriel, Cathi, and Nora, and darn proud of it.
-- 

The opinions expressed are my own, and not the beliefs or opinions
of whatever company you think I work for.  So there, thhhbbbt!
Message to Kodak:  Freedom for Dan Bredy.
Newsgroups: talk.abortion
From: jamcdani@zia.. ("jennifer mc daniel")
Subject: Re: The March in D.C.
Organization: Indiana University
Distribution: na
Date: Mon, 13 Apr 92 18:28:27 GMT

In article <1992Apr12.163843.17077@usenet.ins.cwru.edu> mal11@po.CWRU.Edu  
(Matthew A. Lewis) writes:
> >Certainly you couldn't be trying to tell us that you think a fetus is a
> >child?  That doesn't fit any dictionary definition I've ever seen.
> >
> Hey dickhead!!!!
> 
> Why don't you tell that to the woman who just had a miscarriage.
> I'm REAL sure she'll agree with you...

Well, my married sister had her second miscarriage last summer. 
She was on the pill at the time, and didn't know she was pregnant.
She thought she was on a normal period until she noticed
"what felt like a large blood clot"....

The main thing that she felt was a complete loss of control over 
her body. She has two beautiful children already, felt that her 
family was complete, and was as responsible as she could be (short 
of risking her life in a surgical sterilization or risking her 
marriage by abstinence) in enforcing her choice not to expand her
family. And, to me, control over one's body and family is what  
"pro-choice" is all about.

--------------------------------------------------------------------
    Jenni McDaniel, Indiana University, Department of Psychology
"All we ever look for: a god...a drug...a great big hug." -KaTe Bush
 Big ol' IU taking the opinions of one undergrad?!? Yeah, right....
Newsgroups: talk.abortion
From: mal11@po.CWRU.Edu (Matthew A. Lewis)
Subject: Re: The March in D.C.
Reply-To: mal11@po.CWRU.Edu (Matthew A. Lewis)
Organization: Case Western Reserve University, Cleveland, OH (USA)
Date: Sun, 12 Apr 92 16:44:31 GMT


In a previous article, ADMN8647@RyeVm.Ryerson.Ca (Linda Birmingham) says:

>The day I see a prominent, politically powerful, prolifer
>stand up and say they are constructively working to end poverty,
>hunger, homelessness, improve education, provide access to birth
>control, day care, etc. etc. etc., I'll believe you Mr. Franklin,
>but somehow I think that day is a long way away.
>
>
>Linda

well Linda.....if you spent all the time you use debating whether a fetus  
is or isn't a child and tried to rectify these problems, the
world would be a better place. Damn, I love the ME generation. NOT


-- 
MaThiEu a. LeWis   "Achtung ya'll........it's good to be down in America
Thieves Like Us     for a while....and get to Texas.....I'll have a drink
mal11@po.cwru.edu   on Texas."  - U2  Dallas, Texas  April 5th, 1992 
                   I LIKE TO WATCH THINGS ON ZOO TV
Newsgroups: talk.abortion
From: eeb1@ellis.uchicago.edu (e elizabeth bartley)
Subject: Re: Susan Garvin Posts Private e-mail
Reply-To: eeb1@midway.uchicago.edu
Organization: University of Chicago Computing Organizations
Date: Wed, 8 Apr 1992 23:12:29 GMT

In article <1992Apr2.054719.10599@rotag.mi.org>
kevin@rotag.mi.org (Kevin Darcy) writes:

>If the email is so "awful", how is posting it verbatim, with the consequent 
>emotional reactions, going to help matters any?

It lets people judge for themselves whether the e-mail was bad, awful,
or not bad at all.

>Are we returning to the days of lynch mobs here, or do we hold reasoned
>justice higher than gut-level reactions?

You've got it backwards, Kevin.  Reasoned justice needs facts.
Gut-level reactions don't.  Remember which is which.....  And remember
that lynch mobs usually deliver something worse than a harsh scolding.

--
"And Kevin [Darcy] FINALLY admits why he keeps getting involved in all these
meta-discussions.  Kevin finally admits why he's engaged in a net.vendetta
against Susan.  Kevin finally admits why he continously posts such idiotic
things.  He's going after sensationalism so that he can get more abuse."
                                   - Keith A. Cochran
Pro-Choice       Anti-Roe                             - E. Elizabeth Bartley
From: forgach@noao.edu (Suzanne Forgach)
Newsgroups: talk.abortion
Subject: The Pope is coming! The Pope is coming!
Date: 14 Apr 92 02:29:04 GMT
Organization: National Optical Astronomy Observatories, Tucson, AZ, USA

From article by kcochran@isis.cs.du.edu (Keith A. Cochran):
> In article forgach@noao.edu (Suzanne Forgach) writes:
> 
>Ok, Suzanne, question time.  Why is the Pope coming to Denver, where I live,
>and not to where you live????  Maybe he likes ME more then he does YOU???


Maybe he perceives that your need for a visit from him is greater than
mine.
Newsgroups: talk.abortion
From: rescorla@rtnmr.chem.yale.edu (Eric Rescorla)
Subject: Re: Kathi, please be careful
Organization: Rescorla for himself.
Distribution: usa
Date: Tue, 14 Apr 1992 11:36:41 GMT

In article <1992Apr14.050014.15949@midway.uchicago.edu> rivk@midway.uchicago.edu writes:
>In article <1992Apr13.224356.6901@cco.caltech.edu> anne@cco.caltech.edu (Anneliese Lilje) writes:

>I hadn't intended to bring it up, and I won't continue it past the time
>when you stop it. If you want it off this newsgroup, all you have to do
>is not reply to this article.
Go ahead, Nora: Ask her if she'll stab you in the back if you turn
around....
-Ekr



-- 
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Eric Rescorla, DoD#431, Honda CM400 rider          rescorla@rtnmr.chem.yale.edu
Yale University Department of Chemistry            We hack anything.
My mind is now for rent: C/Unix,Vacuum Tech,Machining,P-Chemist. Hire me, eh? 
Newsgroups: talk.abortion,soc.men,soc.women
From: kcochran@isis.cs.du.edu (Keith A. Cochran)
Subject: Re: You want to win.
X-Disclaimer: Nyx is a public access Unix system run by the University
	of Denver for the Denver community.  The University has neither
	control over nor responsibility for the opinions of users.
Organization: Nyx, Public Access Unix at U. of Denver Math/CS dept.
Date: Wed, 15 Apr 92 00:28:02 GMT

In article <1992Apr14.125259.22918@cs.dal.ca> franklin@ug.cs.dal.ca (Steve Franklin) writes:
>In <92105.064833KEL111@psuvm.psu.edu> Kurt Ludwick <KEL111@psuvm.psu.edu> writes:
>
>>In article <1992Apr13.194939.8956@noao.edu>, forgach@noao.edu (Suzanne Forgach)
>>says:
>
>>Whether [abortion] remains legal or not, it will continue to happen until
>>(and if) we ever eliminate the demand for it.
>>Abortion in America will continue, just as it has for hundreds of years.  And
>>   just as it did, hundreds of thousands of times a year, for the relatively
>>   short time span during which it was illegal.
>
>Kurt - I can tell you now. If abortions are made illegal, there will be 
>a hell of a lot fewer. Sure we will have to deal with the coathangers and
>[back alleys, but there will be thousands and thousands and thousands 
>of alive babies to show for it.
>   SOunds like a good trade to me

Note how Steve has now dropped all pretense of humanity, and just admitted that
it's ok if some women get killed, as long as you don't touch my Holy Fetus.

This thing (I hesitate to use the word "man" or "human" on something that
obviously has no compassion) is sick.  Very sick.
--
=kcochran@nyx.cs.du.edu   |  !uunet!nyx!kcochran  |  kcochran@isis.cs.du.edu  =
=B(0/1/2/3) f- t w- c- d- s++(+) m e++ r(-) p k(+) <--My BearCode, if you care=
=My thoughts, my posts, my ideas, my responsibility, my beer, my pizza.  Ok???=
=Ex-Girlfriend of Rocker, Susan, and Linda, and Damm Proud Of It!! And, FWA!!!=
From: kevin@liebe.uucp (Kevin Brawley)
Subject: Re: A question for any MALE prolifer
Organization: Liebe Company
Date: Wed, 15 Apr 1992 22:55:21 GMT

chrisl@stpaul.gov (Chris A Lyman) writes:

>kevin@liebe.uucp (Kevin Brawley) writes:

>> Oh well!  Since Nora points out that Nazi analogies are incorrect they 
>> are incorrect???  I sense a bit of Nora-worship here.  The Nazi analogies
>> are valid, much as you hate them (and they must be cause KEVIN said so).

>Let's get something straight, Mr. Brawley.  The Nazis were pro-death on a
>scale far exceeding anything any of us could imagine.  Using them in any
>pro-life/pro-choice argument has the effect of watering down their impact
>on our Jewish friends.  If you can't figure that out, shut the hell up, head
>for the library and do some reading.

"...far exceeding anything any of us could imagine."  Abortion has taken the
lives of 30,000,000+ children.  So abortionists actually have to their
credit more deaths toll than the holocaust.  Appears your first statement
was wrong.
 
You second statement is opinion and nothing more.  I think murdering humans 
is a tragedy regardless of race, creed, color and age.

My personal library of the plight of the Jewish people would rival any
average library.  Your callous assumptions aside, I have the greatest 
respect and admiration for the Jewish people.  And even more so for those
courageous ones who have worked to forge a homeland out of adversity.

>There, that's for my Jewish ex-girlfriend Laura, whom Nora reminds me of
>in many ways.

Oh.  So you, speak for your girlfriend, who speaks for the Jewish people as
a whole?  Wowee.

profamilyprochildrenpromarriageprolifeproGodprounbornbabiespromeateatingpro
animalresearchprohuntingpromen     Kevin     prowomenprosocraticmethodhence
prointellectproamericanbutalso    Brawley    proqualityprolowertaxesprohome
schoolingprostrongdefenseprocharitybutnotprosocialistwelfarestateproliberty
From: bense@oasys.dt.navy.mil (Ronald Bense)
Newsgroups: talk.abortion
Subject: Re: Sorry, did I miss anything?
Date: 7 Apr 92 03:16:26 GMT
Reply-To: bense@oasys.dt.navy.mil (Ronald Bense)
Distribution: na
Organization: Carderock Division, NSWC, Bethesda, MD

In talk.abortion, mon@cray.com (Muriel Nelson) writes:
>In article <1992Apr6.201203.28022@cs.yale.edu> rescorla@rtnmr.chem.yale.edu (Er
>ic Rescorla) writes:
>>In article <1992Apr6.194536.26089@cbnewsj.cb.att.com> decay@cbnewsj.cb.att.com
> (dean.kaflowitz) writes:
>>>I was trying to help you, Eric.  But if you include DJR, then not only
>>>can you form a club for guys without girlfriends, but if any potential
>>>girlfriends find out about the association, you'll never get out of
>>>the club.

Hey, what happened to this thread? Geez, go to sleep one day....

>>>I thought the point was that you guys want girlfriends?
>>Yeah, but I figured that if there ever was a guy who needed help finding
>>a girlfriend, DJR was it...
>>-Ekr

>Uh, Eric,
>I'm not sure you are going to garner favor from my gender by
>making it known that you would wish DJR on any one of us...

Uh Eric,
    Since this *desireable* :) ex-girlfriend has this reaction to DJR
(whoever the hell he is, I missed all his threads, evidently) I vote
him out, totally hopeless case or not...I'm not in the charity business:)


>You guys shouldn't be too quick to dismiss the pleasantries
>of acquiring ex-girlfriends here either. We don't make a lot of
>demands, and we give _great_ recommendations.

I never did, but having a current one would brighten up my days :]
But, an ex means always having someone on your side, at least in t.a

So, I'll ask, will you be my *ex-girlfriend*?

Ron :) :) :) :) :)
Newsgroups: talk.abortion