HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From:  (CJ Rabe, III)
Subject: Re: Class A/B/whatever... What does it mean?
Organization: Martin Marietta Astronautics, Denver
Distribution: usa
Date: Tue, 21 Jul 1992 18:50:58 GMT

In article <JMD.92Jul21101817@ocelot.bear.com>, jmd@bear.com (Josh Diamond) writes:
> 
> 
> It seems that my question (Class A/B/whatever... What does it mean?)
> has sparked some hearty debate...
> 
> In article <1992Jul17.143248.5738@porthos.cc.bellcore.com> gfl@hera.uucp (22402-lenahan) writes:
> >The original question:
> >>>    What are the specific differences between class A/B/whatever 
> >>>        audio components?
> >The original answer:
>   [deleted for brevity]
> 
> >Now aside from the babble about complementary tubes (????)!,
> >This is way beyond the interest of someone who doesn't understand
> >the definition of class A, AB, B, etc.
> 

> The particular passage in mind was in
> a quote from "Stereophile" which appeared in a sales brochure for
> Kinergetics Research equipment (quoted from memory):
> 
> 	"the first CD-player to break the Class-A boundary"

In this context class-A is meaningless.  It is a subjective label used
by the reviewer.
> 
>Stuff deleted
> 
> So, let the technical explanations (and debate) continue.  I would
> personally like to know how class A vs. B vs. AB fits together with
> Tube vs. Transistor.  Grant states that the comment in the original
> response about "complementary tubes" is babble.  Why is this not
> valid?

Grant could be a bit more diplomatic.  Tubes are not complimentary as 
transistors are, ie there is no PNP/NPN relationship with tubes.  Push
pull operation is achieved by inverting half of the output signal in the
output transformer.  Thats how you can get a sine wave to swing negative
with only a positive power supply.
> 
> And please, lets remember that there are many people out there who
> possess some understanding of electronics, but are beginners in audio
> electronics.  The fact that someone does not yet know the terminology
> does NOT indicate that they are incapable of understanding a good,
> detailed, explanation.

Very true.  The technocrats who make their living selling and publishing
reviews of this stuff depend on an uninformed coustomer base.  Seldom do 
you find a salesman whose knowledge extends beyond a few over worked buzz
words, especially in the high end shops.  If you want to increase your
knowledge in this arena, may I suggest you toss your Stereophile into the
bottom of the bird cage, where it belongs, and subscribe to the Audio Amateur
or Glass Audio.  In addition to publishing some *VERY GOOD* construction
articles, they also have excellent technical treatises on how the stuff works.

> 
CJ Rabe


From: myers@hpfcso.FC.HP.COM (Bob Myers)
Date: Mon, 27 Jul 1992 15:21:30 GMT
Subject: Re: Re: Class A/B/whatever... What does it mean?
Organization: Hewlett-Packard, Fort Collins, CO, USA
Newsgroups: rec.audio

> This is what I've understood "class A" to mean:
> 
> The amplifier transistors operate only in the linear region.
> Power is applied to keep the transistors in the linear region.
> Thus a class A amp draws significant power at all times.

Class A, as was mentioned before, simply means that the amplifying device
handles the full input cycle.  Note that this does NOT guarantee that the
device is "in the linear region," as many amplifiers can become decidedly
non-linear for large amplitudes.  (Esp. as one approaches the "clipping"
limits imposed by the power supply.)

Just another example that says that it's very difficult and risky to 
label things as "good" or "bad" based on another simplistic label.  It is
very possible to make a lousy Class A amp, and it's also possible to make a
very good Class AB push/pull.  (Although it is true that Class A is generally
*capable* of better fidelity, since it completely avoids any "cross-over"
concerns....)


Bob Myers  KC0EW   Hewlett-Packard Co.      |Opinions expressed here are not
                   User Interface Tech. Div.|those of my employer or any other
myers@fc.hp.com    Fort Collins, Colorado   |sentient life-form on this planet.
Newsgroups: rec.audio
From: ziny@nynexst.com (Ziny Flikop)
Subject: equip. info is needed
Organization: NYNEX Science & Technology, Inc.
Date: Thu, 30 Jul 92 11:55:29 GMT

I want to buy a set of relatively inexpensive stereo equipment. 

Choices I have:

Receivers: Sony STR AV 770
           Technics SACX 303
           Kenwood KRV 6030


Tape decks: Sony TLWR 570
            Technics RSTR 313

CD changer: Sony CDP 491


Speakers: B&W 201
          Bose 201 Ser. 3
          Pioneer CS G303



I am looking for comments, suggestions.


Thanks.

 ziny@nynexst.com
From: jj@alice.att.com (jj, audio curmudgeon)
Newsgroups: rec.audio
Subject: Re: 20 or 24 bit digital recording?
Date: 29 Jul 92 14:22:47 GMT
Article-I.D.: alice.23346
Reply-To: jj@alice.UUCP (jj, audio curmudgeon)
Organization: NJ State Home for Bewildered Terminals

In article <1992Jul28.230217.4309@fid.morgan.com> sethb@fid.morgan.com (Seth Breidbart) writes:

>That brings to mind an interesting question.  DAT uses 16 bits, so it
>has 96 dB snr for a full level signal.  For a signal at -50 db, it has
>46 dB snr.  For a signal at -90 dB, it has 6 dB snr.
More or less, there is some complication in the assumptions one makes on
quantizer occupancy and peak level vs. rms level.

>Therefore, it is correct to say that DAT has, simultaneously, X dB
>dynamic range and Y dB snr, whenever X + Y = 96.
No.  Dynamic range doesn't add to SNR. Part of the problem
is that many people have used different (so different in some
cases as to be unrecognizable) meanings for dynamic range, and
you are probably trying to sort the world out.  Sorry, but
"dynamic range" isn't particularly well defined, even where
it IS well defined, so to speak.  The Peak/Noise Floor dynamic
range (that's what I call dynamic range) of both DAT and CD is
96 dB, considering the adjustments above.

The SNR is indeed level sensitive, just like you'd expect with
a medium with ONLY a noise-floor, and no signal-correlated distortions.
This confuses some people who think that means that vinyl is better,
but some people desparately want to be confused, too.

>Now consider a floating-point system with 16 bits, 4 bits of exponent
>and 13 bits (using the standard IEEE cheat) of mantissa.  That system
>has 90 dB of dynamic range (using the exponent only), and 78 dB snr.
>Similarly to 16-bit linear, we can increase the dynamic range at the
>expense of snr (but not vice versa).
Well, the numbers are approximately ok.

>Is that analysis correct?
Except that the 78 dB SNR across the band will not always be enough to
prevent unmasked "pumping" of the quantizing noise.

You need more mantissa bits, at least 14, arguably 16.  16 also
covers the necessary reproduction dynamic range (although not the
recording dynamic range).
-- 
 Bush    *Copyright alice!jj 1992, all rights reserved, except transmission
   vs       *by USENET and like free facilities granted. Said permission is
 Clinton  --    *granted only for complete copies that include this notice.
 Just Say !NO!       *Use on pay-for-read services specifically disallowed.
Newsgroups: rec.audio
From: ascheng@athena.mit.edu (Adelbert S Cheng)
Subject: Audio Reference?
Organization: Massachusetts Institute of Technology
Distribution: usa
Date: Mon, 27 Jul 1992 20:27:16 GMT

Has anyone out there in net-land ever heard of a company called
Audio Reference?  (No, not Audio Research.)  I saw an ad for
"Audio Reference speakers Studio Monitors model 4350" and I'm not
familiar with this company/these speakers.  Any info would be
appreciated.

Thanks.

--
Ed Cheng
ascheng@athena.mit.edu
From: psinha@potato.ece.uc.edu (Praveen Sinha)
Newsgroups: rec.audio
Subject: ADVICE requested on Dolby Surround/Prologic Receivers
Date: 23 Jul 92 17:37:11 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: Unversity of Cincinnati, ECE Dept


	I am planning to buy a DOLBY Surround or Prologic receiver. I would
appreciate if someone could provide info. about the following as regards
price, quality, (kind of output stage : discrete or otherwise) and any other
helpful info. 

1.	Yamaha RXV-660
2.	Kenwood KRV 6030,7030,8030
3.	Onkyo TX 904,906
4.	Pioneer VSX 1?

	I have noticed that Sony STR series and Technics receivers heat up very
quickly. I don't have any idea about the ES series though. Why does it happen ?

	Of the above mentioned receivers, I have checked the Yamaha only. The
best price which I could get for it was ~ $540.

It would be a great help if someone could tell me from where I could get the
best deals on Yamaha's or Onkyo's.

Thanks in advance.

Praveen Sinha

----------------------------------------------------------------
Praveen Sinha
Digital Design Environments Lab       email : psinha@thor.ece.uc.edu
Dept. of Elec. and Comp. Engg.        Phone : (513) 556-3025
University of Cincinnati                    : (513) 751-4207
~
From: davea@hpscit.sc.hp.com (Dave Angelini)
Date: Wed, 29 Jul 1992 20:24:43 GMT
Subject: FOR SALE AUDIO GEAR
Organization: Hewlett-Packard, Santa Clara, CA
Newsgroups: rec.audio


New York Audio Labs Minuet in A preamp. Hi gain tube/mosfet phono/CD
with excellent sound. Spare tubes and manual $300

Entec SW-5 powered subwoofers with internal amps. Servo controlled
output below 20 hertz. The boxes are black gloss laminate $ 1100

Snell Type Q loudspeakers (light oak) with black stands. These are still
the best mini monitor Snell makes. $ 600

Call 408 225 0923 or e-mail

From: myers@hpfcso.FC.HP.COM (Bob Myers)
Date: Fri, 24 Jul 1992 18:12:09 GMT
Subject: Re: Re: Life after CDs
Organization: Hewlett-Packard, Fort Collins, CO, USA
Newsgroups: rec.audio

> Hmm... Well, LDs are 12" (like records) and analog (like records)...
> Maybe the next generation is a 12" sound-only analog LD. Surely this
> would make the die-hard-vinyl-LP-loving crowd happy?

Gee, I sort of doubt it.  After all, LDs only have a few MHz of bandwidth,
and surely that's not as good as what you can get dragging a diamond 
through a trench in vinyl!

:-)



Bob Myers            | "There is a law of inertia.  And I have found that of
myers@fc.hp.com      |  all the inert substances, the most inert is the       
                     |  human brain."         - Edward Teller
From: chrisc@gold.gvg.tek.com (Chris Christensen)
Newsgroups: rec.audio
Subject: Re: Carver M1.0t Amplifier Forsale - $300.00
Date: 24 Jul 92 21:18:59 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: Grass Valley Group, Grass Valley, CA

In article <1992Jul24.022344.23785@serval.net.wsu.edu> jkavanau@yoda.wsu.edu 
(Jeff Kavanaugh) writes:

>	225W into 8ohms (conservative, front panel meter says 400W/channel)
                                       ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Ya and the spedo in my van reads 120 MPH.........:-)
-- 
Chris Christensen                  The opinions I express are my own,
chrisc@gold.gvg.tek.com            and sometimes they are wrong!
916-478-3419 FAX 916-478-3887      After all, I *AM* only human.
Newsgroups: rec.audio
From: freedmanm@woods.ulowell.edu
Subject: Re: Advice on a Pro-Logic Receiver
Organization: University of Lowell
Date: Mon, 27 Jul 1992 23:23:41 GMT

In article <1992Jul22.112229.1@wharton.upenn.edu>, mizutanit@wharton.upenn.edu writes:
> I'm planning on purchasing a new receiver soon and I would like to get a
> few recommendations. I want a Dolby Pro-logic capable receiver, with amps
> for all five channels, as well as the requisite audio and video switching.
> I would also prefer to have a programmable remote.
> 
> The receivers I have seen so far are as follows:
> Denon AVR-610
> Yamaha RXV-650?
> Sony STR-GX-67ES
> Technics SXR-710?
> Kenwood KRV-8030
> 
> I can spend about $350-500. Any suggestions/advice would be greatly
> appreciated.
> 
> Thanks in advance,
> 
> Taka

Spend the extra money and get the Yamaha RXV-850.... It has enhanced dolby
prologic surround (digital with 50 db channel separation) and is the BALLZ..
I own a DSP A-1000 and it approaches the THX for 25,000... Yamaha is the way
to go.
					Mike.

Newsgroups: rec.audio
From: pdm@majestix.cs.uoregon.edu (peter d. mark)
Subject: Re: need advice for buying a cd player
Organization: University of Oregon Computer and Information Sciences Dept.
Date: Mon, 27 Jul 1992 22:58:42 GMT

In article <1992Jul27.223829.2406@cs.uoregon.edu> pdm@majestix.cs.uoregon.edu (peter d. mark) writes:
>
>i would like to buy a cd player but i am not up on all the
>latest features and technological issues that are currently
>important deciding which to buy.  aside from how it sounds,
>what are the most desirable features in cd players?
>
>i should mention that i don't care very much about such 
>things as "random play" or multi-cd changing capabilities.
>i listen mostly to classical music, and i want to listen
>to the movements of a symphony in order, not randomly
>permuted.  also, i don't mind getting up once an hour to
>change a cd manually.  
>
>my main concern is with good quality sound, and hopefully
>to keep the price below $500.  do some cd players have 
>something called "digital output" while others don't?
>what is it, exactly, and is it important?  how about
>"oversampling" multiples?


one more thing i forgot to ask before:

please feel free to suggest particular brands and models.
how do denon, harmon-kardon, and adcom stack up against
each other?  (these are available to me locally.)  are
there other brands i should consider buying through mail-
order?

peter
pdm@cs.uoregon.edu
Newsgroups: rec.audio,rec.video
From: mce@tc.fluke.COM (Brian McElhinney)
Subject: Re: Four Channel vs. Five Channel Pro-Logic
Organization: Software of the Mist
Distribution: na
Date: Fri, 31 Jul 1992 00:19:14 GMT

brown@vidiot.UUCP (Vidiot) writes:

>In article <2A6DE312.12243@noiro.acs.uci.edu> harvey@cafws1.eng.uci.edu (Harvey Chen) writes:
>
>I have no problem hearing the center dialog in phantom mode.

I would hope so!  Phantom mode certainly works, within its limits.
But Pro-logic with a center speaker does sound different, and has much
improved limits.  Phantom mode creates the illusion of a center
channel by fooling your brain when you are in the sweet spot.  Center
modes generate real center sound waves, which propagate and reflect
very differently, and are effective throughout the room.

I very much prefer center mode Pro-Logic, even if I'm sitting in the
sweet spot.  That's pretty subjective, and the differences subtle, so
I'd expect others to disagree.  No problem.

But if I have guests over, center mode wins hands down.  That's fairly
objective.  Really.  I'd expect others to disagree only because
there's no idea so good that no one will trash it.  :-)
 
 
Brian McElhinney	   "You'll be sorry!  PHANTOM isn't the same in
mce@tc.fluke.com	    Providence!	 It stars Erik Estrada!	 And he plays
			    an ACCORDION!"	--Doctor, Doctor

Newsgroups: rec.audio
From: tpearson@titan.trl.OZ.AU (Trevor Pearson)
Subject: Re: DAT/CD Sampling Frequency: who cares?
Organization: Telecom Research Labs, Melbourne, Australia
Date: Mon, 27 Jul 1992 03:32:13 GMT

chu@hanauma.jpl.nasa.gov (Eugene Chu) writes:
> In article <5994@otc.otca.oz> brendan@otc.otca.oz (Brendan Jones) writes:
> >in article <Jul08.171025.23033@yuma.ACNS.ColoState.EDU>, cc433336@LANCE.ColoState.Edu (Constantinos A. Caroutas) says:
> >> Theory says that if you can sample at least twice per cycle, you can
> >> recreate the signal exactly.
> >
> >No no no.  Not twice per cycle.  At least twice the highest *frequency*
> 
> I think the sampling frequency must be twice the BANDWIDTH of the signal
> you're trying to sample.  Of course, Nyquist never said it would be easy.
> 
>
 Stop the argument. These statements are all the same for a sinewave,
and they are all obviously trying to infer the same thing.


 *****************************************
 * Trevor Pearson                        *
 * TRL. Clayton, Australia               *
From: George_Lin@mindlink.bc.ca (George Lin)
Newsgroups: rec.audio
Subject: Re: Class A/B/whatever... What does it mean?
Date: 21 Jul 92 21:43:03 GMT
Organization: MIND LINK! - British Columbia, Canada
Distribution: world

This is what I've understood "class A" to mean:

The amplifier transistors operate only in the linear region.
Power is applied to keep the transistors in the linear region.
Thus a class A amp draws significant power at all times.

My class A amp stays very warm, even if it's been sitting idle for hours.
My class B amp cools off if you leave it idle.


--

 -------------------------------------------
| George Lin                  | 145.270 MHz |
| George_Lin@mindlink.bc.ca   |   VE7FKU    |
 -------------------------------------------
Newsgroups: rec.audio
From: bill@verdix.com (William Spencer)
Subject: Re: Class A/B/whatever... What does it mean?
Organization: Verdix Corp.
Distribution: usa
Date: Fri, 24 Jul 1992 00:08:59 GMT

In article <1992Jul21.185058.21800@den.mmc.com> (CJ Rabe, III) writes:

>> >>>    What are the specific differences between class A/B/whatever 
>> >>>        audio components?

>Very true.  The technocrats who make their living selling and publishing
>reviews of this stuff depend on an uninformed coustomer base.  Seldom do 
>you find a salesman whose knowledge extends beyond a few over worked buzz
>words, especially in the high end shops.  If you want to increase your
>knowledge in this arena, may I suggest you toss your Stereophile into the
>bottom of the bird cage, where it belongs, and subscribe to the Audio Amateur
>or Glass Audio.  In addition to publishing some *VERY GOOD* construction
>articles, they also have excellent technical treatises on how the stuff works.

There is nothing in your article that hasn't been explained in Stereophile.
Now Spile has their faults, but I take exception to your recommendation
of Audio Amateur. If you're into construction projects, sure, they're the
only game in town and do good every once in a while. For anyone else, though,
I can't imagine a worse recommendation except maybe Stereo Review.

I must add: AA is every bit as tweaky as Spile. Otherwise they'd all buy Sony
or whatever.

Bill s


--------------------------------------------------------------------------
 Perot?? Howbout Marrou!!!
From: mu299af@sdcc3.ucsd.edu (G. Y.)
Newsgroups: rec.audio
Subject: B&W 801 speakers
Keywords: B&W 801 speakers
Date: 24 Jul 92 07:49:27 GMT

I am thinking about to purchase the B&W 801 speakers either the
Silver Anniversary Edition or the Series 3.  Can someone tell me the
difference/improvements if any between these two series?  What is
the best price rather than the list price?  Where you can get it for
that price (name, address, tel. no. of the dealer)?  Your
information is greatly appreciated.

Gary
mu299af@sdcc3.ucsd.edu
Organization: The American University - University Computing Center
Date: Friday, 24 Jul 1992 18:36:08 EDT
From: <SGORDON@auvm.american.edu>
Newsgroups: rec.audio
Subject: CD/LDP and A/V receiver Recs?

Since my stereo has recently been stolen, I now have the opportunity to replace
it with new, high tech equipment. :-)))).  I am a loyalist to the CD changer
revolution and noticed that Pioneer has put out a 5 disc changer that also
plays Laser Discs. (CLD-M90  selling at about $500).  I was wondering if any
other companies have ventured into the market with a cd changer/LD player.
If so, who?  If I opt for this package, that will provide me with the much
needed incentive to purchase a nifty new A/V receiver with Pro Logic and
maybe DSP.  So, if are the proud owner of an A/V receiver that you would
reccomend, please let me know maker and model.  I'm looking for something
in the neighborhood of $400-500 w/Pro Logic (possible DSP) and about 100
watts per channel.  Total system integration isn't that important as far as
remotes go because I personnaly consider the included remotes with the re
receivers too bulky for normal use.  Thanks in advance
_Seth
Newsgroups: rec.audio
From: aaron@gamma.com (Aaron Rosenbaum)
Subject:  Acoustat alive? Ever heard of a MK-131?
Date: Wed, 22 Jul 92 23:55:04 EDT
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I have a pair of MK-131's and I have been trying to track down  
Acoustat to see if they have a dealer in the area.  


Does anyone know where they are?  Phone #?

Also, does anyone know anything about the history of MK-131?  I  
bought them used in 1986 but I really don't know when they were made  
or what they retailed for.  


I like the sound quite a bit and I can't afford a new set of speakers  
that equal them so I would like to get it fixed. (I also managed to  
break off a binding post 2 moves ago.)

Any recommendations?

- Aaron

---
Aaron Rosenbaum
Gamma inc
1201 Braddock Place, #401
Alexandria VA 22314
(703) 684-1805
aaron@gamma.com

Newsgroups: rec.audio
From: niranjan@sbgrad10.cs.sunysb.edu (Niranjan)
Subject: Bookshelf Speakers: Advice required.
Keywords: surround
Organization: State University of New York at Stony Brook
Date: Wed, 22 Jul 1992 00:01:20 GMT

Posting this for a friend....

-----------------------------------------------------------------

I am looking for decent bookshelf speakers for under $200/pair.
I like the Advent Baby II - what is your opinion of these babies?
Appreciate any info on other brands/models that I should look into...

Please post/email to subramanian@sbchem.sunysb.edu. Thanks.

-----------------------------------------------------------------
From: damian+@pitt.edu (Liquid Cooled Spherical Imaging)
Newsgroups: rec.audio
Subject: SONY pitch-control CD PLAYER question
Date: 28 Jul 92 21:24:26 GMT
Organization: RaveReaction CandyLoop Clothing

Hello,

	I am at work, and I dont have the model number with me, but I am
interested in buying a SONY CD PLAYER with the following specs

1) list $340
2) It is intended for Karaoke use
3) It has a +12%/-12% pitch control lever
4) Instantaneous pause release
5) Special mic inputs

Has anyone heard this machine?  I want it for the pitch control ability.
I listen to electronic dance music (and I like to play it faster than it is
recorded).  Does anyone know what the sound quality is like?  I hope to 
purchase one this week, so a prompt reply/post would be greatly appreciated.

Damian
-- 
                               Pure DIESEL Power
        GUARANTEED          ------------------------         WON'T SLIP
            TO              damian@unix.cis.pitt.edu           ON THE
    SUSPEND DISBELIEF!      ------------------------      ICIEST SURFACES!
Newsgroups: rec.audio