HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: Jim Rosenfield <jnr@igc.apc.org>
Newsgroups: soc.culture.african
Date: 11 Nov 92 20:32 PST
Subject: Female circumcision
Nf-ID: #N:cdp:1471700251:000:519
Nf-From: cdp.UUCP!jnr    Nov 11 20:32:00 1992


got this in my in basket so I am passing it along......jnr



>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

From llk@kepler.unh.edu




I know for a fact that the Chewas do not, repeat, not
practice clitori--whatever-the-word-is...in fact, I
do not think anybody in Malawi does, except possibly
for the moslems, but even for them, I have some doubts...

This practice (clitorid'y) is usually rumored to be 
practiced by people in east Africa (north-east Africa, etc)...

But then what do I know...


Newsgroups: soc.culture.african
From: Philip Machanick <philip@concave.cs.wits.ac.za>
Subject: Re: Ethiopia (Was: Re: Abortion, Euthanesia and the wrongless West.
X-Xxdate: Mon, 9 Nov 92 11:16:25 GMT
Organization: Computer Science Dept, Wits University
X-Useragent: Nuntius v1.1.1d12
Date: Mon, 9 Nov 1992 09:24:56 GMT

In article <18956.2afc1a81@ecs.umass.edu> , kijak@ecs.umass.edu writes:
>As an African from Ethiopia I do not think the cause of our civil wars
was the 
>Italian Colonialism. Eventhough it is not the sole factor, British
colonialism 
>has done more damage & is closer to the source. I would like to remind
you the 
>main factor in our destiny is ourselves. We(Africans in general) should
watch 
>for the machinations of the colonizers & the venom they have left. What
did we
>do the last 30 years? If we are not wise enough to avoid their traps we
should
>not blame them. It is a cruel world, we have to fight to survive.

Thanks for an informative article. For once more light than heat.
--
Philip Machanick
Computer Science Dept, Univ of the Witwatersrand, 2050 Wits, South Africa
philip@concave.cs.wits.ac.za  phone: 27 (11) 716-3759  fax: 339-7965
From: sbhimji@ersys.edmonton.ab.ca (Sam Bhimji)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.african
Subject: Tanzania
Date: Fri, 06 Nov 92 14:00:49 MST
Organization: Edmonton Remote Systems #1, Edmonton, AB, Canada

Has anybody been to Dar es Salaam lately? I was there from May till July 
and noticed just before I was leaving that they were starting to repair 
the city roads, fix the sewers, make new sidewalks, and even collect 
garbage! 

I would be interested in hearing if they are continuing this, as would my 
sister-in-law since she is from there...

Sam Bhimji              sbhimji@ersys.edmonton.ab.ca
From: pmmst8+@pitt.edu (Paul M Mweene)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.african
Subject: Re: male circumcision (was Re: Female C
Date: 13 Nov 92 00:37:47 GMT
Organization: University of Pittsburgh

In article <1992Nov12.083759.17426@shannon.ee.wits.ac.za> philip@concave.cs.wits.ac.za (Philip Machanick) writes:
>In article <1992Nov10.131907.49@acuvax.acu.edu> , ltt75326@acuvax.acu.edu
>writes:
>>education is so diatructive to a cultural harmony that has been in
>>existence so long, what shall we say? I believe the problem is that
>>the West can most assuredly educate people but cannot help at all with
>>a value system to live by. Much of traditional African education is 
>>"values" education - teaching a child what it means to be a member
>>of their society.


Lets suppose for one momment that the circumstance happened, again, that the
west had cultural hegemony over the world and it was decided that they would
set the pre-school curriculum..... Lets see, then they would introduce such
good books as "Heather's two mums" and "Daddy's Room mate" as standard text
books.... hmmm interesting.

Of course they would throw in Sordomarchism and bestiality as required credits
in order to give a balanced and proper education. At the end, we would all 
grow to be so mentally and emotionally balanced that our divorce rate would be
53% in the first 7 years. 

I am telling you I can't wait for this education, but more importantly for 
everyones favourite prime time show: the porno parade of every one's daughter
sister, mother, auntie, grandma, pa, son, provided ofcourse, they have cleared
the 11 years minimum age set so morally in Holland. Which incidentally is the
home of boers.

 Oh please, why is the normally wrongless west subjecting us to such an unbearable wait???

makala
Newsgroups: soc.culture.african
From: ccfj@hippo.ru.ac.za (F. Jacot Guillarmod)
Subject: Re: Is racism "for whites only"?
Organization: Rhodes University, Grahamstown, South Africa
Date: Wed, 11 Nov 1992 10:03:31 GMT

In <cscoging.21.721470556@unpcs1.cs.unp.ac.za> cscoging@unpcs1.cs.unp.ac.za (Chris Scogings) writes:

>In article <9207@blue.cis.pitt.edu.UUCP> pmmst8+@pitt.edu (Paul M Mweene) writes:

>>Yes they can throw their weight around with their poorer neighbours in West
>>Africa, BUT Nigeria has no power even in Southern Africa where I come from.

>If you come from Southern Africa, why are you in America?

As Makala would say:  "We'll ignore your ethnic proclivities and
inherently racist outlook in posing such a meaningless question.  It's
none of your buisness.i".

Because he isn't paying any attention to us, we'll have to guess.

My bet is that he is in America so as to have free and untrammeled
access to Usenet to give us poor, misguided nohopers a hard time.

-- 
  F.F. Jacot Guillarmod     PO  Box 94     \        |     ccfj@hippo.ru.ac.za
  Computing Centre       Grahamstown 6140   \      /     +27 461 22023 xt 284
  Rhodes University        South Africa      ;___*/   33 18 30 S | 26 31 45 E
From: pmmst8+@pitt.edu (Paul M Mweene)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.african
Subject: Re: Gay Africans?
Date: 7 Nov 92 02:35:05 GMT
Organization: University of Pittsburgh

In article <1992Nov6.155127.46@acuvax.acu.edu> ltt75326@acuvax.acu.edu writes:
>Living on the coast of Kenya I saw as well as heard of the homosexual
>community there on the coast. Though I can see the arguement that the 
>Arabs could have influenced the creation of this community I never 
>heard an African give that excuse. In fact, though a word for 
>"homosexual" may not exist in a language, the people of Africa are 
jjsincerely, kale vidzo.
>L.T.


You mention an important point. I was talking to my friend from Tanzania 
the other day who assured me that homosexuality is anathema . He told me
that the only people, to the chagrin of all, who indulge in it are the Arabs
at the coast and a few of their African  acquiantances.  

Anything can be learned. You just have to be in the wrong (or right) compa
ny. I come from an Africa which is still "pure", which is geographically in
the center of the continet. There free of all, but Roman Catholic influnence
homosexuality does not exist.The only people suspected of doing such things to
eac other are the foreign catholic priests. Fortunately, they seem not to have
succeeded in spreading their behaviour. 

Where ever you have a mixture of cultures things like this will happen. Take


In general Africans abhor homosexuality. I have never heard it claimed that
ancient Egyptians indulged in it though it was common place in Greece, Rome
and Sodom. All the art and literature I have seen seems to verify this. It
is true of all other Africans generally.


Makala
 
Newsgroups: soc.culture.african
From: barnhart@ddsw1.MCS.COM (Mr. Aaron Barnhart)
Subject: IPS:EAST AFRICA: World Bank gives 20 million dollars in famine help
Date: Fri, 6 Nov 1992 03:53:18 GMT
Organization: Evanston, Illinois, U.S.A.

Copyright Inter Press Service 1992, all rights reserved.  Permission to re-
print within 7 days of original date only with permission from 'newsdesk'.

Title: EAST AFRICA: World Bank gives 20 million dollars in famine help


washington, oct 28 (ips) -- the world bank announced here
wednesday it will give 20 million dollars in grants for famine
relief in east africa in support of the united nations' 100-day
action programme to speed aid to the drought-stricken region.

the grants will help pay for distribution of emergency food and
aid and the supply of medical supplies to somalia, djibouti,
ethiopia and kenya, where many somalis have recently fled.

the grants include 10 million dollars to the world food
programme, seven million dollars to the u.n. children's fund
(unicef), and three million dollars to the world health
organisation (who), the bank said.

prolonged conflict, chronic poverty and the collapse of civil
order in somalia have led to ''unprecedented destitution, human
misery and starvation,'' bank president lewis preston said. the
international committee of the red cross (icrc) has estimated that
1.5 million somalis are in danger of starving to death.

children have been especially hard hit.  ''possibly an entire
generation of somali children will die or grow up seriously
physically or mentally impaired if food does not reach them
soon,'' preston said.

the u.n. relief effort faces its own critical tests.  earlier
this week, its senior representative in somalia, mohammed sahnoun,
tendered his resignation in what is widely regarded here as an
expression of frustration with inadequate support for his efforts
by u.n. headquarters in new york.

in addition, factional violence has increased in many parts of
the country in recent days as rival militias have tried to assert
control over the food recently shipped there as part of the u.n.
emergency effort.

the result has been delays in the delivery of additional food
supplies and increased deaths by starvation, according to relief
agencies active in somalia.

the world bank said it was providing the money as an
''exception'' to its normal practice of providing loans and
credits to recognised governments in good standing in the bank's
records.

somalia was cut off from new loans several years ago when the
government of former president siad barre, who was ousted in jan.
1991 failed to repay long-overdue credits.

since his ouster, no new government has been firmly
established. the bank said its own ''strong financial position''
enables it to extend the grants. (end/ips/jl/yjc/92)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.african
From: gds@casper.cs.uct.ac.za (Riel Smit)
Subject: Re: Absence of black posters from SA
Reply-To: gds@cs.uct.ac.za
Organization: Computer Science Department, University of Cape Town
Date: Tue, 10 Nov 1992 06:20:02 GMT

pmmst8+@pitt.edu (Paul M Mweene) writes:
>What we oppose is the use of the use of the resources of South Africa in a
>partial way. Where white South Africans alone have access to computers. We
               ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
	       This is an outright lie.
>(I) are telling them that if they want to play, they should allow blacks to
>play. 

Blacks are allowed to play.  You don't believe me?  Ask the students of 
Luhlaza High School in Khayalitsha, or Alexander High in what use to be 
District 6.  They are not the only "black schools" that received free 
computers and now receive free computer education with the help of 
volunteers, some of which are staff and students in this department.

As for black students not having access to the net: this year we have 839 
students in Computer Science and each one of them has an account on a 
system from where they can read the news, post and send mail.  How many of
them are black, he asks.  I don't know, since we do not keep track of the
race of our students.  I happen to have the class list for our 3rd year
students.  I do not know them all, but by looking at the names and
remembering some of the faces I would guess around 12 of the 65 are black.
The percentages in 1st and 2nd year are higher.  I have not asked them why 
they don't post - I did not think it that important.

Since they certainly have the opportunity to post, the only other reason 
(according to you) why they don't post is because they are afraid.  While 
it is certainly not impossible, I doubt it.  Black students at this 
university is certainly not afraid (and have no reason to be) to voice 
their opinion (sometimes extremely critical of the administration, not 
even to mention the government) at public meetings on campus.  They are not
afraid to sing freedom songs, lead marches and toi-toi through campus. 
(Note: not only black students participate in these activities, but we are
focussing on them since you claim they are afraid to post their opinion.)
Some of them are not afraid, in support of striking workers, to errect
barricades of burning logs and tyres, preventing any vehicle from entering
campus.  The same students were not afraid to disrupt lectures, dance on
the desks of other students (both black and white), spray people with fire
extinguishers, tear up the notes of lecturers, etc.  No, somehow I do not
think they would be afraid to post -- mmmm, unless they are afraid to post
something that you do not agree with and then be branded sellouts or not
real blacks or be flamed to death...

Regards
-- 
Riel Smit,  Computer Science                              gds@cs.uct.ac.za
University of Cape Town                      gds%cs.uct.ac.za@rain.psg.com
From: kwp@wag.caltech.edu (Kevin W. Plaxco)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.african
Subject: Re: Death of Evil Empire II
Date: 5 Nov 1992 20:02:19 GMT
Organization: California Institute of Technology, Pasadena, CA
NNTP-Posting-Host: sgi1.wag.caltech.edu

In article <1992Nov4.093110.5896@shannon.ee.wits.ac.za> philip@concave.cs.wits.ac.za (Philip Machanick) writes:

>What chance I wonder that the US will stop supporting venal dictatorships
>in the Clinton world order? At least they don't have the Soviet Union
>as an excuse any more for interfering in other country's politics.

>Philip Machanick
>Computer Science Dept, Univ of the Witwatersrand, 2050 Wits, South Africa

I too hope this is the case.  We've had a pretty piss poor record in
this arena.  But it is my opinion that things have already started to
improve.  We (via Herb Cohen, undersecretary of state for african 
affairs) have already told Savimbi to give up the ghost.
(I have heard rumors that South Africa has also told him to expect no
support.  Is this true?) And, somewhat to my suprise, even the Reagan
administration NEVER supported RENAMO.   I mean these guys (RENAMO)
are so morally bankrupt that even though they were trying to overthrow
a MARXIST regiem the contra-supporting-Grenada-invading-Muhujadeen-
supplying Reagan Administration balked at supporting them.

Has South Africa finally stopped suporting them?

Here's my list of "Post colonial meddeling by white ruled countries" 
in Africa, in order of importance (degree of harm).  Please let me 
know what you think.

South Africa
USSR/Cuba
USA
France

Does any one else even make it on the post 1979 list?

Newsgroups: soc.culture.african
From: bross@splatter.nas.nasa.gov (Wilson S. Ross)
Subject: Re: Millions of girls brutally mutilat
Organization: NAS Program, NASA Ames Research Center, Moffett Field, CA
Date: Tue, 10 Nov 92 01:12:09 GMT

In article <NGSSBK35@cc.swarthmore.edu>, imofoke1@cc.swarthmore.edu (Ivan Mofokeng) writes:
|> Chowning@acuvax.acu.edu (Richard Chowning) writes:
|> 
|> ... i am rather getting annoyed at the manner in
|> which people of other cultures, in particular white people, seem to
|> constant criticize and undermine the practises of other cultures.  

It might bother me too, except I am aware of even more effort on the part of
white people to improve our own culture as well. Hopefully progress will be
as infinite as the laws of physics allow.

|> ...  it is
|> unfortunate that some people criticise things without seeking to understand
|> them, it is even more unfortunate that in discussing their biases they never
|> bother to highlight the virtues of the practises they are critcising.

Ok, what are the virtues of infibulation?

|> why is it that africans always have to change and define their behaviour
|> according to the western standards?  in particular, why is it that you
|> (white people) are so bent on changing our culture?  is this an ongoing
|> attempt to colonise us (*our minds*) even after so many colonisers have left
|> africa?

My opinion: it's like the garden of eden in that once one has been exposed
to knowledge that yields power (for better or worse), it is impossible to
turn back. The type of knowledge I have in mind results from untrammeled
discussion of issues. If you keep your mind open, it is exposed to new
ideas, some of which remain & colonize. Works both ways across cultures. 
I suspect a culture with a longer tradition of openness will have more
resilient ideas owing to more open competition. So the answer amounts to,
'we' of the Western tradition are conditioned to speak our minds (limited 
as they are) as part of free exchange, so if you communicate with us, don't 
expect us to censor ourselves without good reason. I haven't seen any reason 
for self censorship of anything other than invective on the net, but remain 
open minded.

|> maybe you should start looking at ways of redressing the wrongs you have
|> done in the past and reshaping you own societies to a point where you will
|> be comfortable living in them without having to tear down the veru fabric of
|> other societies.

I don't think any significant amount of wrongs done in the past (especially
by people now dead) will ever be redressed. There are more than enough
problems to solve in the present (many result from past wrongs).

I believe all societies will have significant amounts of discomfort. Is 
questioning or criticising on the net tantamount to tearing down the very 
fabric of another society? I doubt it. 

After all this contrariness to Mr. Chowning's message, allow me to
compliment him for stating the issue so clearly.

Bill Ross


Newsgroups: soc.culture.african
From: ccfj@hippo.ru.ac.za (F. Jacot Guillarmod)
Subject: Re: Internet Address in Zimbabwe ??
Organization: Rhodes University, Grahamstown, South Africa
Date: Sat, 7 Nov 1992 12:55:51 GMT

In <1dbsgvINN5i0@armory.centerline.com> dpacek@centerline.com (Dan Pacek) writes:


>  Hi, 
>  I have friends in Zimbabwe I would like to get in touch with. Is
> there anyone in Zimbabwe who is a subscriber to this service ? If so 
>please reply to me by email to ---  dpacek@centerline.com.

Send mail to:

	postmaster@zimbix.uz.zw

This is the University of Zimbabwe in Harare.
-- 
  F.F. Jacot Guillarmod     PO  Box 94     \        |     ccfj@hippo.ru.ac.za
  Computing Centre       Grahamstown 6140   \      /     +27 461 22023 xt 284
  Rhodes University        South Africa      ;___*/   33 18 30 S | 26 31 45 E
From: g89r4222@kudu.ru.ac.za (Geoff Rehmet)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.african
Subject: Re: Separate Development
Keywords: racists culture
Date: 11 Nov 92 06:02:00 GMT
Article-I.D.: kudu.g89r4222.721461720
Organization: Rhodes University, Grahamstown, South Africa

In <BxHCu1.BFv@usenet.ucs.indiana.edu>
  kautaj@silver.ucs.indiana.edu (kauta) writes:

>In article <poam.63.721321086@giraffe.ru.ac.za>
> poam@giraffe.ru.ac.za  (AK MARQUARD) writes:
>>In article <BxEyGE.9tH@ns1.nodak.edu> varvel@plains.NoDak.edu 
>>(Andrew Varvel) writes:

>You two [one a redneck from North Dakota, the other a white "liberal" from 
>South Africa busy enjoying the spoils of apartheid] have grossly 
>miscalculated my interest in a *white* South African's opinion about me......
>Keep it up boys - it does not hurt to listen!

OK Kauta, you keep knocking down everybody else's concern for, or
contribution towards South Africa (or Africa for that matter).  
Do you know Allan Marquard personally, so that you can say with proof
that he is a " 'white' liberal from South Africa, busy enjoying the
spoils of apartheid".  If you can substantiate this, prove it to all of
us, on the net.

If you are so concerned about South Africa, tell us what your
contributions towards the development of the people of South Africa, or
the rest of Africa for that matter.  What have you done in order to
further the spread of the net to Africa?  
We all know of the contributions made by the people whose efforts have
brought the net to this part of the world, and who have, ironically,
made it possible for people in Africa to hear you.  Why not lets, for a
change, instead of hearing your ranting, hear some CONSTRUCTIVE comment
from you.  I don't think that should be too much to expect.

NB: it's very easy to call someone a "white liberal" or a "redneck from
North Dakota", it takes a lot more to make some constructive comments. 
So let us see you put your mind to work for a change :-)


Have a nice day!
Geoff.
--
=====csgr@hippo.ru.ac.za====csgr@giraffe.ru.ac.za=====csgr@alpha.ru.ac.za=====
 Geoff Rehmet      | The difference between a used car salesman and a computer
 Rhodes University | dealer is that the used car salesman can probably
 South Africa      | drive, and knows when he's lying.
From: shaze@cs.ubc.ca (Scott Hazelhurst)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.african
Subject: Re: Scandal(s) of the day
Date: 12 Nov 1992 08:32:59 -0800
Organization: Computer Science, University of B.C., Vancouver, B.C., Canada
NNTP-Posting-Host: pacific.cs.ubc.ca

philip@concave.cs.wits.ac.za (Philip Machanick) writes:
>The commission found that the police improperly sided with Skosana,
>and blamed the police/Skosana side for most of the violence. It found
>that the separation of kwaNdebele police from the SAP was a disaster,
>with much evidence of the police obstructing justice (losing almost all
>.......


Sounds just like the KwaZulu Police. It is a sad state of affairs
when it is seen as a positive thing to bring a unit under
the command of the SAP.

I saw in a newspaper cutting recently that the government had
retired some more SAP generals -- One of them was a General Buchner.
Does anyone know if this is the commissioner of the KwaZulu police,
and if so, does this mean that there has been some shake up there.

Scott


-- 
---shaze@cs.ubc.ca----------------------------------------------------------
   Scott Hazelhurst    
Newsgroups: soc.culture.african
From: blda@gnv.ifas.ufl.edu
Newsgroups: soc.culture.african
Subject: RE: GAY AFRICANS AGAIN
Date: 11 Nov 92 09:15:02 -0500


Ngeye Zoba!!

If your friends are in as much denial as
you are then of course they won't know of
any gays in their cities/countries.  

For being such a "worldly man" you certainly
are narrow minded.  Most probably you've
never seen the gay bars in Kinshasa because
the gay Zairoise have to keep hidden from
facist attitudes such as the ones you hold.
Thus, you probably are more familiar with 
U.S. gay bars (at least in Pittsburgh) 
because folks are finally acknowleding/accepting
the existance of a gay culture.












Newsgroups: soc.culture.african
From: heidi@ucthpx.uct.ac.za (Heidi de Wet)
Subject: Re: Whatever (actually African culture)
Date: Fri, 6 Nov 92 08:10:36 GMT
Organization: Dept of Elec Eng, UCT

gds@casper.cs.uct.ac.za (Riel Smit) writes:
>Cultural differences is sometimes the cause of misunderstandings, hurt
>feelings, etc., but also amusement, enlightenment, endearment, etc.  Do any
>of you have have anecdotes to tell based on differences in culture?  It does
>not have to be from personal experience.

This one's not particularly African, but what the hell.

Having been brought up to eat everything put on my plate, I went round
to some Chinese friends for dinner.  The woman had spent days lovingly
crafting this meal from imported Chinese ingredients, and there were 
about ten different dishes.  The couple kept pressing more food on us
as we finished what we had, to the point of becoming quite embarrassing.  
We realised some months later that in their culture, one signals that 
one's had enough by leaving a little on one's plate :-)  (Eminently 
sensible, IMO.)

-- 
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Heidi de Wet                                 >>>  FREE  TSAFENDAS  <<<
heidi@ucthpx.uct.ac.za                       and give him back his job