From: Aric.Caley@ofa123.fidonet.org
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
Subject: Re: HELP--AMIGA OR IBM P
X-Sender: newtout 0.06 Jan  3 1993
Date: 11 Jan 93  10:52:00

> Organization: The Source for Source
> From: scottw@src4src.linet.org (Scott Weintraub)
> Message-ID: <1993Jan10.043322.7254@src4src.linet.org>
> Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
>
> First off, I want to say that about a week ago, I ordered my Gateway after
> being a loyal Amiga advocate for many years.  Guys, they've caught up.  A
> few months ago, we all agreed that HAM didn't cut it anymore and were pretty
> excited about the AGA chipset which I can now say *STILL* doesn't cut it.
>
> Now, let's make a reasonable comparison.  We'll compare the basic Gateway
> 4DX2-66V to a 4000.  The Gateway is $2995 and the 4000, powered up is
> $2700.  The 4DX2-66V comes with a 15" MAG (it has a Gateway case but is
> internally a MAG which I may add is considered by many equal to the 3FGX
> and the 4FG.  It recently got monitor of the year from PC World and is
> completely and utterly FLAT).  Uh oh!  The A4000 doesn't come with a
> monitor.
> Hmmmm... that NEC looks nice but unfortunately, we need a monitor that can
> do 15KHz.  Oh well.  We'll settle for a 1960 which definately wasn't our
> first choice.  It's about $550 (don't quote me please) so let's tack that
> onto the price of the A4000.  $2700 + $550 = $3250.  Wow, that's more than
> the Gateway.  As we all know, the Gateway is a 486DX2 processor running
> at 66MHz and the A4000 is run off an 040 operating at 25MHz.  They're both
> incredibly fast machines and while the 4000 could be faster, it'll have to
> do.  The A4000 comes with 6 megs of RAM and the Gateway comes with 8.

Since AmigaOS and applications chew up less ram than Windows (or OS/2), the
difference  is  negligable.   In the case of OS/2, 8 megs would probably be
more restrictive than 6 megs on the Amiga.

> The 4000 has one 3.5" high density drive.  The Gateway comes with two: a
> 3.5" and a 5.25".  Since a 5.25" drive is useless in an Amiga, we can't
> really rank on CBM for not including a second drive.  The Amiga 4000 comes

Yup.

> with a 120MB IDE of which I'm unsure of access time.  Gateway includes
> a beautiful 340MB IDE sitting right on the motherboard so it's not connected
> to an ISA slot.  I'm very unfamiliar with this technology but I do know it
> runs at 13ms and says it has a local bus controller in the ad but doesn't

This  is just like the A4000's IDE - its on the motherboard and is directly
connected  to the CPU ("Local Bus").  I imagine the performance is at least
as good on the A4000 if not better.

> take up one of the local bus slots.  As far as graphics go, the Gateway
> includes a local bus ATI Ultra Pro which happens to be an extremely fast
> card.  Windows does *NOT* run slowly with this baby in your machine.  It's

Its probably faster than the A4000 in terms of raw transfer speeds from the
CPU  to  VRAM  (because  of  the local bus).  AGA still suffers from a slow
access  (14Mhz  32  bit  bus).   Of  course,  the Amiga still does have the
blitter and all that nice stuff...

> basically a "real-time" OS and is comparable with the Amiga's Workbench.

That in itself is something that can (and has) been argued ad infinitum.

> The ATI does 640 x 480 and 800 x 600 in 24-bit and then drops down to 65k
> colors in 1024 x 768 and finally, 256 colors in 1280 x 1024.  According to
> the January '93 issue of BYTE, the ATI card can play back Video for Windows
> movies which reportedly can animate 1024 x 768 at 30fps.  I am yet to test
> this because my Gateway is in the mail but this is coming from a 3rd party

Pretty impressive, I guess.

> and I doubt is fictional.  The Amiga comes with the fabulous new AGA
> chipset.
> It can do 256k colors out of a 24-bit palette in 640 x 480.  It can do those
> same colors in 800 x 600 and the ever-so-awkward 1280 x 400 but in 15KHz
> mode.

The  800  x  600  mode  (overscanable to 896 x 628) is not 15Khz.  Its 72Hz
interlaced,  which  ends  up being something like 24Khz or so.  Considering
that  HAM8  would  use  1/3  as much data as your ATI's 24 bit mode, it can
potentialy  be  just  as  fast  or  faster, while looking almost as good (I
havent  put  the  two side by side but I have seen HAM8 images at 800 x 600
and I couldnt see any fringing or "banding" due to lack of colours).

> The increased bandwith on the A4000 enables it approach 30fps in 640 x 480.
> The 4000 has 7 slots when everything's over and the Gateway has 9.  8 being

5 Slots:  4 Zorro III, 1 CPU ("local bus").

> ISA an one local bus.  Both are desktops but for $100, you can upgrade

ISA?   Do remember that the A4000 has 4 Zorro III slots, which are fully 32
bit  hi-speed  slots, and many times faster than ISA (not to mention easier
to  use,  as  they  configure  automaticaly,  and there are rarely ever any
conflicts between cards like what frequently happens on clones).

> the Gateway to a tower case.  The A4000 comes with a 101-key keyboard which
> I find slightly annoying and the Gateway has a 124-key AnyKey keyboard
> which happens to be a joy to use.  Both include mice which are both
> medicore.

Keyboard  and  mice  issues  are pretty subjective - opinions vary on these
things.

> The Gateway comes with MS-DOS and Windows and of course the A4000 comes with
> WB 3.0.  Gateway then enables you to choose from a small assortment of

Personaly, I consider AmigaOS 3.0 the supperior of the two.  This of course
can  be  argued,  but it doesn't change the fact that I simply like AmigaOS
better.

> software.  I choose Paradox 4.0 (considered the best piece of database
> software) and Borland C++ 3.1 (considered by many the best C compiler).

The  PowerUp  A4000  comes with Art Department Pro (a quite powerfull image
processing  package)  and  (I  think)  Deluxe  Paint.   Since  the Amiga is
supposed to be a graphicaly-inclined machine, this makes sense.

> Gateway's cache is small.  It's only 64k but for a mere $45 you can jack
> that
> up to 256k which is more than enough.  After that, the leftover money that
> you save can be put towards a variety of stuff including RAM at $45/meg,
> an upgrade to the ATI card to give it an extra meg of VRAM which is
> necessary for the higher resolutions and 24-bit color.  It's $125.  I know,
> I know, I know.  There's no sound.  Well, the extra money can be put
> toward's
> Gravis's Ultra Sound.  It's a 16-bit soundboard and costs about $130.  I've
> probably forgot something so feel free to correct/add/subtract this post.

OS/2 and more ram (I hate Windows, and OS/2 is really pretty nice)

EISA or some other type of *32 bit* slots.  ISA just doesn't compare.

> Oh yes.  If you want tech support, Gateway's tech support hotline is open
> weekdays from 6AM to midnight EST and on Saturday from 8AM to 5PM.  I can't
> say the same for CBM who would rather our problems to be in the hands of
> it's dealers but sometimes offers help.
>
> --
>     /// AMIGA:            * Scott Weintraub - Long Island, NY     *   In
>    ///  the computer for  * e-mail: scottw@src4src.linet.org      *DreAms i
> \\\///   the blah blah     *                                       *  WalK
> \\X/    blah blah blah    * Letterman is the king of latenight!!! *WiTh yOu

The  A4000's  AGA  may not compare all that well.  But then again, consider
that  AGA  is  also  sold with a $600 computer (A1200).  I think AGA is too
little  for the high end, but it looks mighty nice on the low end.  I don't
think  Commodore  could  ever  compete  price  wise with all the clones out
there.   Apple  sure  doesn't - their machines are even more expensive than
Amigas, yet they sell like crazy.

 -Dances With Coyotes-EMAIL: dances@qed.cts.com-At the begining of the movie-
 --AKA Dances V2.0/Coyote/Critter/Magnet/Major--they know they  have to find-
 -Former Net-Lurker - A-M-I-G-A! NOT AMEOBA%#$!-each other.... but they ride-
 -World's slower programer and cursed with 1.3!-off in  opposite  directions-


--- Maximus 2.01wb