HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: as569@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Darek Brzeski)
Newsgroups: alt.amateur-comp
Subject: Reflections on "Defending Technology"
Date: 30 Sep 1992 12:08:03 GMT
Organization: Case Western Reserve University, Cleveland, Ohio (USA)
NNTP-Posting-Host: hela.ins.cwru.edu


Just finished reading "Defending Technology Part 1" and I have to say
that although I view technological progress as mostly beneficial (to us
humans at least :) ) I still found Whole Earth Review's "Questioning
Technology"  issue to be much more wider in scope and at the same time
more objective as it for most part considered not only the harm that
technology causes but some of the benefits as well.  I understand
that the authors of "Questioning Technology" having typed/written their
articles using industrial products such as pens, typewritters,
computers etc and having distributed their ideas to readers with
the help of the publishing industry had no other choice but to admit
that technology isn't purely one of humanity's blunders.  Anything else
would be hipocrytical.  Authors of the "Defending Technology" on the
other hand employing the same technology they defend to distribute
their ideas had more of a choice (which was almost ethical one) as to either
write a complete praise of technology and disregard all of it's
"side effects" on humans and the environment or to reply to "Questioning
Technology" by showing  that the benefit of the "Arte" outweighs its harm.
And having had that choice they took the easy way out by not even admitting
that any harm exists at all.

"Defending Technology" mentions how in land based, pre-industrial
societies tyranny was a norm.  While reading this I just couldn't help
thinking that today it is the technology that is a sort of a "gentle tyranny".
The parallel between the traditional tyrant and technology being that in
both cases many of their subjects/users felt such a blind gratitude for
protection and ability to advance(here the difference between the two
being that technology offers a chance for larger percent of population
to advance)  that they would completely blackout all the negative
aspects and would consider all criticism a heresy.  Here I have to pay
my homage to this maybe-not-so-wonderful technology since it at least
multiplied channels of communications to such a magnitude that
it no longer is feasible to persecute someone who voices such a heresy
because obviously human nature hasn't changed a bit so if there
existed some form of an ultimate Zap command on the net I'm sure
few of us would be gone after our next message.  Here it is
important to remember that everything has to be done so such
a command never exists since if it ever did, technology
would make a high tech form of tyranny extremely           \ | /
efficient and easZZZZAAAAAAAAAAAAAAPPPPP--------------->  -- o --
                                                           / | \








       least :) )

Xref: sparky alt.amateur-comp:50 sci.econ:7838 alt.activism:16881 talk.politics.misc:48408
From: ralphs@halcyon.com (Ralph Sims)
Newsgroups: alt.amateur-comp,comp.misc
Subject: Re: Commercialization of the Nets?
Date: 6 Oct 92 16:01:51 GMT
Organization: Northwest Nexus Inc. (206) 455-3505

bm665@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Jay Robert Hauben) writes:


>     Can anyone explain what this is all about? Doesn't the 
>agreement this article describes violate the non-commercial 
>essence of the Internet? I thought that government participation 
>and public contribution to the developemnet of the Internet was 
>predicated on the non-commercial nature of the traffic that the 
>Internet would carry. 

If you pay the toll, you can drive on high-speed interstate
highways.  If you want to take the slower routes, you can use
the non-toll roads.  The toll bridge across a river allows
folks to get from PointA to PointB quickly and efficiently.
The same analogies can loosely apply to the Internet.  The
commercial internet pays premiums to the non-commercial
internet in order to interconnect.  We pay the fare.
 
Newsgroups: alt.amateur-comp,sci.econ,alt.activism,talk.politics.misc
From: cg711@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Howard Rosenberg)
Newsgroups: alt.amateur-comp
Subject: Re: Defending Technology:Pt II (Usenet News) Draft for Comment
Date: 27 Sep 1992 20:42:17 GMT
Organization: Case Western Reserve University, Cleveland, Ohio (USA)
NNTP-Posting-Host: hela.ins.cwru.edu


Ronda It all seems right to me.I dont know much about david hume
but from what you write about him he seems like a man worth reading
about.I wonder how he would react to todays technology.may be a man
ahead of his times.Have to hurry up only have short time left on
freenet it took me half an hour to find this stuff any help would
be appreciated. from your cousin in Brooklyn,(gods country) HOWIE.
you know my address.440pm 9/27/92 sunday.HOWIE.
From: au329@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Ronda Hauben)
Newsgroups: alt.amateur-comp
Subject: Re: FAQ about First language
Date: 30 Sep 1992 07:58:32 GMT
Organization: Case Western Reserve University, Cleveland, OH (USA)
Reply-To: au329@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Ronda Hauben)
NNTP-Posting-Host: hela.ins.cwru.edu


In a previous article, xexeo@dxcern.cern.ch (Geraldo Xexeo) says:

>Yes, it should be a FAQ in comp.edu, but I am interested in views from
>people that are not educators, but that like computing as a hobby. 
>
>My point is not teaching people to program. You can do that in ANY language.
>My question is how to make people learn to program and ENJOY it.
>
But it seemed that BASIC did that - that BASIC was the language
available on people's home computers.

It's good to hear someone say that they want people to learn to program
and ENJOY it. In the 1980's, I found the dominant cry became that 
People Don't Have to Learn to Program.

When in fact its real helpful to know how to program if you are going
to be dealing with computers.

Somewhere's I have a copy of a discussion on a local Ann Arbor 
bulletin board in about 1987 when people debated which language
would be best to start with - somehow it seemed to be divided 
between those that said BASIC was how they learned (and that was
mostly the hobbyists) and those who said that C would be best.

The discussion had over 100 different posts.

But probably BASIC has been the language that has been available to
and used by more people than any other language as it was available
on home computers.

It's also good to see this subject raised, as the Amateur Computerist
was begun in the battle against the ending of computer programming
classes at the Ford Rouge Factory. It's purpose was to keep alive
the spirit of the love of computers which somehow learning to program
most represents - because then one can have a computer do what one 
wants it to do - and one can also realize the wonder of the logic
machine that is the essence of the computer.

So somehow it seems that BASIC has been the language that has
made it possible for many many people to love computers and 
programming. It's interesting that there has been such an attack
on the language. 

                Ronda

            


-- 
Ronda Hauben  Amateur Computerist Newsletter
P.O. Box 4344   other email addr:ae547@yfn.ysu.edu
Dearborn, MI 48126
Xref: sparky alt.amateur-comp:61 news.misc:1684 sci.econ:7893 comp.society.futures:541
From: emv@msen.com (Edward Vielmetti)
Newsgroups: alt.amateur-comp,news.misc,sci.econ,comp.society.futures
Subject: Re: Defending Technology: Pt II (Usenet News) Draft for Comment
Date: 30 Sep 1992 23:51:29 -0400
Organization: Msen, Inc. -- Ann Arbor, Michigan
NNTP-Posting-Host: nigel.msen.com
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1 PL6]

Brad Templeton (brad@clarinet.com) wrote:
: >seem that usenet gets to quite a large number of people.
: 
: Indeed.  Though a much less active group of people.  Consider the
: Science Fiction area on GEnie, which I estimate has around 3500 participants.
: (on during the last month).    It has around 1 megabyte of traffic a day,
: including headers.
: 
: Consider rec.arts.sf.movies, the USENET groups with 44,000 estimated
: participants on the arbitron list.   It did a megabyte in all of July.
: All the SF groups together are around 80,000 participants, and about 15
: megabytes per month.  (Count comics and trek in this.)
: 
: If USENET's numbers are that high, then the participation figures are
: way below that of the commercial online business.  That may be no suprise,
: but this far below?

I believe that USENET traffic per group may be well below the equivalent
traffic per equivalent group on a commercial on line site, for several
very reasonable reasons:

- Usenet demographics are different.  Usenet users are more likely to have
  access as a byproduct of real work or school, and so they are less
  likely to spend all of their on-line time sending news and more likely
  to be writing documentation or getting code to compile or editing term
  papers.

- Usenet community structure is different.  Relative especially to closed
  systems like GENIE there's a lot more banter that goes on via electronic
  mail instead of happening on the public conference per se.  You see the
  same thing in FIDONET where the mail system is weak relative to echoes,
  what would have been passed around as mail in a typical net argument
  goes around as "news" there.

I suppose the thing to do would be to compute a lurker ratio for each
group and see how well you could defend it.  A group like
misc.jobs.offered has a very high lurk factor; most people just read it or
scan the headers, and very few people relative to the universe of readers
actually post there.  On the other hand an active but small alt group with
a narrowly focussed mission will show a very different profile.  Brad, do
you have a factor for (# participants / # active participants) for any
active groups on GENIE?

  Edward Vielmetti, vice president for research, Msen Inc. emv@Msen.com
        Msen Inc., 628 Brooks, Ann Arbor MI  48103 +1 313 998 4562


Xref: sparky alt.amateur-comp:48 sci.econ:7809 alt.activism:16810 talk.politics.misc:48079
From: ralphs@halcyon.com (Ralph Sims)
Subject: Re: Commercialization of the Nets?
Organization: Northwest Nexus Inc. (206) 455-3505
Date: Tue, 6 Oct 1992 19:54:06 GMT

schwager@cs.uiuc.edu (Mike Schwager) writes:

>bm665@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Jay Robert Hauben) writes:


>>essence of the Internet? I thought that government participation 
>>and public contribution to the developemnet of the Internet was 
>>predicated on the non-commercial nature of the traffic that the 
>>Internet would carry. 

>Read the MacWeek of 9/28/92, page 30.  They talk about commercial use of
>the Internet.  Merit is the commercial counterpart to NSFNet, and runs a
>parallel backbone for commercial users.  To be sure, it's a sticky
>situation.

....for which we pay a premium price towards cost-recovery for the
NSF side of the Internet.  I guess an analogy would be in paying
a toll charge on a bridge to get from PointA to PointB.  If you
want to travel the route, you need to pay the fare.  We commercial
users of the Internet are doing this.  There is an interesting
mailing list for folks that would like to learn more (well, that's
the intent of the mailing list, in any event).  I think it can
be subscribed to via com-priv-request@psi.com (that would be a
start, anyway).

Newsgroups: alt.amateur-comp,news.misc,sci.econ,comp.society.futures
From: ag173@yfn.ysu.edu (Jay Hauben)
Subject: Union Pioneer Spirit Lives
Organization: Youngstown State University/Youngstown Free-Net
Date: Mon, 5 Oct 1992 15:23:20 GMT


     For many years, Flint was the home of the annual UAW 
Pioneers' picnic. This event was held so surviving veterens of 
the 1936-37 Sit-Down Strike could share their memories and 
commaraderie and receive some of the honor that is due them. 
Sadly, this Pioneers' picnic no longer takes place.
 
     Instead, on Oct. 2 at UAW 659 Hall a "UAW Region 1-C and UAW 
Region 1-C Sitdowner Dinner" was held.
 
     Some of the feisty and courageous Sit-Downers were there 
again. This event seemed however more a retirees' dinner and pep 
rally for the Clinton for President campaign.
 
     None of the Sit-Downers attending the event were invited to 
speak. There was one person present who asked to review some of 
the lessons from the fight to build the UAW and their application 
to today's difficult fights. The chair rearranged the other 
speakers and wanted to end the meeting without this speaker 
having a chance. Finally, he announced that a woman wanted to 
talk about her problem and he abandoned the platform.
 
     The speaker began her summary of the advice and help she got 
from many Sit-Downers and the lessons they shared with her from 
their battles to defeat GM and then to build the UAW. She 
stressed the value they put on an uncensored press. All the time 
she spoke, what appeared to be union officials were very noisily 
closing chairs and tables right out from under those listening to 
the speech. Though the noise all but drowned out the speaker, a 
number of listeners refused to give up their chairs or listened 
to the whole speech standing up.
 
     When the speaker asked for questions or comments, the 
listeners who remained apologized for the rudeness shown in the 
Home of the Sit-Downers and asked for copies of the speech which 
was part of UAW Public Review Board Appeal 1001.
 
     As always, union activity in Flint was a battle. In this 
time of great confusion, it is sad not to have heard from the 
voice of some of those who figured out 55 years ago how to fight 
and win in a similar troubled time. But it was good to see the 
stand-firm spirit of the Sit-Down was still alive in Flint.

Xref: sparky alt.amateur-comp:57 news.misc:1678 sci.econ:7874 comp.society.futures:538
From: bm665@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Jay Robert Hauben)
Newsgroups: alt.amateur-comp,comp.misc
Subject: Commercialization of the Nets?
Date: 6 Oct 1992 04:56:04 GMT
Organization: Case Western Reserve University, Cleveland, OH (USA)
Reply-To: bm665@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Jay Robert Hauben)
NNTP-Posting-Host: hela.ins.cwru.edu


     The following article appeared in the University of Michigan 
Information Technology Division publication INFORMATION TECH-
NOLOGY DIGEST, Volumne 1, Number 10, September 7, 1992 on page 3.
 
     Can anyone explain what this is all about? Doesn't the 
agreement this article describes violate the non-commercial 
essence of the Internet? I thought that government participation 
and public contribution to the developemnet of the Internet was 
predicated on the non-commercial nature of the traffic that the 
Internet would carry. 
 
 
        Merit Network Signs Agreement
       to Pass Commercial Data Traffic
    
    Merit Network has signed an agreement
    with Advanced Network & Services (ANS)
    of Elmsford, NY, that will allow Merit's
    business users throughout Michigan to
    access the same high-performance com-
    puter networking resources used by the
    nation's higher education and research
    communities and to access the global
    collection of computer networks called
    the Internet. ANS provides the highspeed
    T3 backbone used by the Internet. The
    gateway agreement was reached be-
    tween Merit and ANS subsidiary ANS
    CO+RE Systems (ANS CO+RE).
    
    Internet access for commercial users
    in Michigan will be provided through
    MichNet, Merit's statewide data net-
    work. MichNet is linked to the Na-
    tional Science Foundation's NSFNET,
    a nationwide, high-speed computer net-
    work for research and education that is
    also managed by Merit. NSFNET is
    connected to the ANS network, which
    provides high-speed T3 backbone ser-
    vices and access to the Internet.
    
    Previously, access to NSFNET was avail-
    able only to organizations engaged in
    activities directly related to research and
    education. The new agreement will allow
    MichNet to bridge the data networking
    gap that has existed between the state's
    corporate users and the nation's research
    and higher education communities, fos-
    tering collaboration in areas ranging
    from information management to tech-
    nology transfer.
    
    Merit is an Ann Arbor-based, not-for-

    profit consortium of nine of Michigan's
    publicly funded universities. MichNet
    also serves a variety of organizations in
    Michigan through Merit's affiliate pro-
    gram, including four-year colleges, com-
    munity colleges, K-12 schools, libraries,
    non-profit organizations, health care
    providers, state and federal govemment
    agencies, and commercial enterprises.
From: jblack@outb.wimsey.bc.ca (Josh Black)
Newsgroups: alt.manga
Subject: Anime-L
Date: 25 Sep 92 17:47:17 PDT
Organization: Wizard Online

 Can someone plese tell me how to get off the Anime-L mail list. I know it's something like sign off,but i'm not positve.
Thanx......Josh

--- Via UCI v1.02 (C-Net Amiga)
From: am748@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Glenn Lindamood)
Newsgroups: alt.manga
Subject: "Silent Service" manga for sale
Date: 2 Oct 1992 22:23:55 GMT
Organization: Case Western Reserve University, Cleveland, Ohio (USA)
NNTP-Posting-Host: slc4.ins.cwru.edu


My friend is trying to sell his "Chinmoku no Kantai" manga that
he brought with him from Japan.  (He's trying to sell a few 
things before he moves back).  These are the original Japanese 
version of the controversial "Silent Service" manga, which 
sparked debate in the Japanese parliment a few years ago!

The cover price is 500 yen (about 4 dollars) per volume.  He has 
issues 1-10.  Asking price $20 + $5 shipping.  

Send me an e-mail if you're interested.

Thank you,

-- 
Glenn Lindamood                    am748@cleveland.Freenet.Edu
From: shenders@quince.gac.edu (Stephen C Henderson)
Newsgroups: alt.manga
Subject: Dirty Pair
Date: 28 Sep 92 00:21:24 GMT
Distribution: All

Manga Fans:
	I'm looking for Dirty Pair episodes from Japan.  I would prefer  
those in Japanese with subtitles.  If anyone knows anything about this  
(through books Nippon or anything) please reply to this.  
	BTW, this is my first message on this computer, so excuse any  
informalities I neglect do to my ignorance of the system.  I'm in first  
year Japanese because I love the Japanamation I've seen so far.  I am a  
great Macross, Bubblegum Crisis, Nausicaa, Dirty Pair, etc, fan.  Any  
information I learn from this system we be totally dependant on the  
contributions of those who browse here.
	Thanx
	Pavel Chekov
Xref: sparky alt.manga:2205 rec.arts.anime:20308 rec.arts.manga:1137
From: kt12+@andrew.cmu.edu (Kenichiro Tanaka)
Newsgroups: alt.manga,rec.arts.anime,rec.arts.manga
Subject: Re: Manga trivia answers
Date: 29 Sep 92 13:05:18 GMT
Article-I.D.: andrew.8emAICq00WBNI69r8N
	<5240@sumax.seattleu.edu>
Organization: Junior, Design, Carnegie Mellon, Pittsburgh, PA

kuo@sumax.seattleu.edu (Chih-Ping Kuo) writes:
>9.  	In Gun Smith Cats, what is the odds of winning a Russian Roulette      
>	game with a 6 shot revolver, Rally style?
>	The odds of winning a 5 bullets, one shot R.R. game is 1/6, 
>	or 17%. 
>	The odds of winning a Rally style R.R. game (1 bullet, 5 straight
>	shots!) is 1/6!, or 1/720, or 0.14%.  

Wait, wait.  I'm not a gun nut so maybe I misunderstood what was
happening but I thought that Rally was stopping the cylinder _between_
the bullets.  "Winning" at her game is not based on chance (like regular
Russian Roulette) but solely on Rally's skill.


Ken
Newsgroups: alt.supermodels
From: db83@hp825.bih.no (Tim Vassdal)
Subject: Re: Anette Bening
Organization: Bergen College of Engineering, Bergen, Norway.
Date: Mon, 28 Sep 92 11:20:22 GMT

In article <1992Sep25.065042.29553@ccu.umanitoba.ca> mayor@ic15.umeeng writes:
>In article 22SEP199221240533@jane.uh.edu, st1dj@jane.uh.edu (SPEAKER FOR THE DEAD*) writes:
>>> 
>>She's alright and all..but I still prefer Kim Cattrall.  *WOOF*WOOF*
>>I just say here on Star Trek 6..the undiscovered country and
>>she STILL looks awesome!  Go rent Mannequin..with Andrew McCarthy and Kim
>>Cattrall... good movie..great babe! >:)
>>
>>			-SPEAKER*
>>
>>P.S. In other words,
>>KIM ROCKS OVER ANNETTE!!!!!! 
>>IMOGDHO (In My Own Gad Durn Humble Opinion)
>
>..and don't forget her bit part in Porky's! (she played "lassie" :)
>woo-woo!

 Well she is good looking...  but these are better ;)

 - Jamie Gertz
 - Jennifer Connelly
 - Mary Stevart Masterson
 - Sharone Stone
 - Meg Ryan

  -= Tim =-
Xref: sparky alt.supermodels:977 alt.fan.letterman:1185
From: drice@ponder.csci.unt.edu (Keith Rice)
Newsgroups: alt.supermodels,alt.fan.letterman
Subject: Re: Elle/Arsenio vs Claudia/Letterman
Date: 6 Oct 92 23:28:26 GMT
Distribution: na
Organization: University of North Texas

In <1992Oct6.095044.10750@mnemosyne.cs.du.edu> dnadams@nyx.cs.du.edu (Dean Adams) writes:

>autry@sgi.com (Larry Autry) writes:

> >I miss him every chance I get.
>Great!  Miss him every night and do yourself (and us) a big favor!

And while you're at it, try missing this group every chance you get.

--
_____________________________
__-----____--___--__-----____	D. Keith Rice
__--__--___--__--___--__--___	University of North Texas
__--___--__--_--____--___--__	Department of Computer Science
__--___--__----_____--__--___	Denton, Texas, USA
__--___--__--_--____--_--____
__--__--___--__--___--__--___	drice@ponder.csci.unt.edu
__-----____--___--__--___--__
_____________________________
From: cormierj@ERE.UMontreal.CA (Cormier Jean-Marc)
Newsgroups: alt.supermodels
Subject: Elle/Arsenio vs Claudia/Letterman
Date: 30 Sep 92 06:16:16 GMT
Organization: Universite de Montreal

Claudia Schiffer/David Letterman:
What is it with D.L.? "What's your name?", "Where do you live?"
"How old are you?"... With questions like that, the guy shouldn't
interview celebrities but work for the unemployment office.
Regarding CS's 1993 calendar the only thing he was concerned with
is the price!

Elle/Arsenio Hall:
On the other hand, Arsenio managed to get the best out of Elle.

Any comments?

JMC
.
Newsgroups: alt.supermodels
From: d89-rbi@dront.nada.kth.se (Ron Birk)
Subject: Re: Madchen Amick-->Gap Babe, Twin Peaks, MORE?
Organization: Royal Institute of Technology, Stockholm, Sweden
Date: Wed, 30 Sep 1992 11:56:36 GMT

In article <1aavudINNrk9@usenet.INS.CWRU.Edu>
cf542@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Julio Richard Laredo) writes:


>   I always wondered if that was *really* her first name.  Because
>   Madchen is the German word for "girl."

Well, Im not sure about the spellings here, but the german word for
"little girl" is Madchen with two dots above the a (umlat).