HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: jon@zeus.med.utah.edu (Jonathan Byrd)
Subject: mubobi (was Re: Bruce Flame)
Organization: University of Utah
	<1992Apr14.105113.877@gacvx2.gac.edu>
Date: 14 Apr 92 11:19:31

In article <1992Apr14.105113.877@gacvx2.gac.edu> karsten@nic.gac.edu (Karsten Hendrick) writes:

   I have seen some people get nailed at a point fighting tournament,
   and the referee usually gave a warning to the person
   who scored the hit, telling them not to hit so hard.  I would 
   have warned the person who got hit to duck/block/slip/evade 
   next time, instead of bitching at the fighter who got in a 
   legitimate hit.

a failure to block usually provides ample punishment, and no other
sanction is necessary, in my opinion.  in my experience, the amount of
censure given to the person who hit too hard is usually determined by
the flagrancy of the foul.  if the punch (or kick) penetrates 2" past
the contact point, it may pass with a warning.  a penetration of 6" is
more likely to result in loss of a point.  repeated violations (even
small ones) should result in disqualification.

in wuko (world union of karate-do organizations) tournaments, they
recognize "mubobi," or defenseless action.  if a fighter runs into a
blow with no offensive intent, he loses a point (in addition to his
teeth).  mubobi also applies to those who turn away and cover up.

obAnecdote:

at a tournament in phoenix, i once saw brad garso knock a guy out for
5 minutes with a punch that penetrated only about 2".  the guy dropped
both hands to catch brad's kick, and took a crisp reverse punch right
on the chin.  the guy's eyes rolled back, and his face hit the floor
at brad's feet.  i swear to ghod he didn't move for 5 minutes.  we all
thought he was dead.  the judges called a foul, and awarded a point to
the unconscious fighter (who was hauled off by the paramedics).  they
then awarded the match to brad, since the unconscious fighter could
not continue.  in my opinion, this was a fair way of dealing with the
situation.  the punch was not a flagrant violation, and the fallen
fighter was partially responsible for the contact.  by censuring brad,
the judges showed that no excessive contact would be tolerated, and by
awarding him the victory, they showed that being knocked out is not
the way to win a match.

--
jonathan byrd
jon@apollo.med.utah.edu
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
From: lieven@cco.caltech.edu (Lieven Pascal Leroy)
Subject: Re: Which is most effective? Point/Edge weapons.
Organization: California Institute of Technology, Pasadena
Date: Fri, 10 Apr 1992 05:06:29 GMT

sc1u+@andrew.cmu.edu (Stephen Chan) writes:

>jquarant@mipos3.intel.com (James Quarant) writes:
>>   The sabre and epee
>> fencers were always arguing which was the most effective weapon--the
>> point weapon or the edge weapon.  We found that the epee won 75% of the
>> time.
[deletions]

>	Two comments:
>	1) The epee, with little modification, might be used as a
>weapon. The sabre, would have to gain a LOT of weight before it'd be
>an effective weapon.
>	2) Unless my memory fails me, the epee is longer than the
>sabre, which, in the hands of a skilled fencer, should be a great
>advantage. I'll check it out next Monday.

I've tried the epee-vs-sabre thing too, and had the opposite experience.
I'll grant all people involved had only a few months' training, but the
while the epee must hit with the point, there are far more angles at which
a sabre can hit and score a legitimate touch.  There is also the matter of
the attitudes of practitioners of both fencing forms: epee fencers don't
have the gung-ho, run at each other mentality. Probably more realistic than what
is required of sabre fencers, due to right-of-way considerations (hit fast!
LOOK like you're the one on the attack!)

And yes, an epee is longer than a sabre.  Stephen has a very good point in
saying that an epee is basically a ready-to-use weapon, whereas a sabre
in its fencing form is more of a whip, and would need a lot more weight to
be useful.

							--Lieven
From: bae@Auspex.COM (Brian Ehrmantraut)
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
Subject: Re: Knife Sharpening
Date: 13 Apr 92 23:31:31 GMT

In article <1992Apr4.195132.3787@alw.nih.gov>, drury@helix.nih.gov (Richard Drury) writes:
> Some while ago, either here on rec.m-a, or on the edged weapons list,
> someone mentioned that the Spyderco sharpening system could be
> outfitted with "diamond sleeves."  
> Does anyone have these diamond sleeve
> things, know whether they would be useful on tough stainless edges,
> know where I can get them, etc?

	I haven't had any problem with sharpening stainless edges using just 
the regular coarse stone provided, but if you want the diamond "speed-sleeves" 
(a hint is contained in this name - patience evidently can be substituted for 
the expense of the diamond sleeves...) you can get them from Spyderco directly,
or from the Cutlery Shoppe (800-231-1272).

-- 
		Brian A. Ehrmantraut

BELL:   voice:(408) 492-0900  fax: (408) 492-0909  
USnail:	Auspex Systems, 2952 Bunker Hill Lane, Santa Clara, CA 95054  
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
From: jose@auvax1.adelphi.edu
Subject: Any USA Goju Practioners???
Organization: ADELPHI UNIVERSITY
Date: Mon, 6 Apr 1992 23:38:18 GMT

	Hello, my name is Jose and I am wondering if there are any USA
Goju Practioners out there.  If so.  Where are you and what is your lineage.

All response are welcome.

Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
From: izar@shuldig.huji.ac.il (Izar Tarandach)
Subject: Re: Ninjitsu
Reply-To: izar@cs.huji.ac.il
Organization: Hebrew University of Jerusalem, Israel
Distribution: usa
Date: Thu, 16 Apr 92 06:11:21 GMT

In article <1992Apr12.205315.27633@lclark.edu>, balrog@lclark.edu (Richard Rogers) writes:
|> the modern origin of the term Ninjutsu.  Originaly known as Shinobi 
|> (stealers in) they came to be known as Ninja (one who perserveres or
|> endures) due their inhuman seeming attributes.

	Isn't it the other way round ? Ninja is the "stealer in" and Shinobi "the one that endures" ?

--izar
From: tms@cs.umd.edu (Tom Swiss (not Swift, not Suiss, Swiss!))
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
Subject: Re: Ouch! Groin kick
Date: 9 Apr 92 15:40:16 GMT
Organization: The Reality Liberation Front (pixels to the people!)

In article <PITARO.92Apr8151518@sneezy.sanders.lockheed.com> pitaro@rocket.sanders.com writes:
>>In article <52766@mimsy.umd.edu> tms@cs.umd.edu (Tom Swiss (not Swift, not Suiss, Swiss!)) writes:
>>
>>	5) The first thing that popped into my head after I was hit was
>>   an old Bill Cosby routine about being hit in the groin during a 
>>   nationally televised football game...
>
>Sounds like it might be funny.  Please post Bill's story.

     Well, it's been years since I heard it, but the upshot is that the 
football team is playing its first televised game, and the coach give them
advice that should they be so unfortunate as to be hit in the groin, they
do _not_ want to be seen rolling around clutching their family jewels
on the tube...coach tells them to grab any other body part instead...

     I'm not a big fan of his newer stuff, but his old stuff cracks me
up every time. 

     Ob Martial arts: Cosby's routine about karate. (Find the album
and listen to it yourself.)

===============================================================================
Tom Swiss/tms@flubber.cs.umd.edu| "Born to die" | Keep your laws off my brain!
     "What's so funny 'bout peace, love and understanding?" - Nick Lowe 
          This is a .signature antibody. Vaccinate your .sig!
"Republicans understand the importance of bondage between a mother and child."
                -- Vice President Dan Quayle
From: wrat@unisql.UUCP (wharfie)
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
Subject: Re: Dougie-Poo
Date: 8 Apr 92 22:03:32 GMT
Reply-To: wrat@unisql.UUCP (wharfie)
Organization: UniSQL, Inc., Austin, Texas, USA

In article <1992Apr8.205312.8062@uwm.edu> ninjam@csd4.csd.uwm.edu (Marty aka Ninjam aka Who Cares...) writes:
>allready, come over to Milwaukee tap your foot three times in

	I used to know a horse that would do this.  You'd say "How many
fingers am I holding up" and the horse would tap his foot...
From: mary@Cayman.COM (Mary Malmros)
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
Subject: Re: novice to master of basics to novice
Date: 8 Apr 92 14:09:22 GMT
Organization: Cayman Systems Inc., Cambridge, MA
In-reply-to: sog@craycos.com's message of 7 Apr 92 06:03:52 GMT


In article <1992Apr7.060352.997@craycos.com> sog@craycos.com (Steve Gombosi) writes:

   In article <1992Apr6.110713.1525@brandonu.ca> lampij@brandonu.ca writes:

[snip]

   >	The beginner is given the white belt...  This is withheld in some clubs
   >	until the begginer has successfully completed a given number of classes

   Hmmm, then how does he hold his uwagi ("jacket") together? More to the
   point, how does *she*...

That is why Jigoro Kano invented the Jogbra.  ;-)

Seriously...we wear belts at all ranks, but it's pretty common for
the top to come undone, start falling off the shoulders, etc. during
a vigorous workout (or even a not-so-vigorous workout...mass-produced
jammies aren't known for their good fit).  Some women wear t-shirts, 
but most of us just wear a jogbra or something like that and let it
all hang out.  I've never heard the guys comment, so I assume they're
all either oblivious, blase, polite, or intimidated.  ;-)

Oh, Yiiiiiiiiilllllmaaaaaaaazzzzzz????  Care to comment?
--


------------------------------------------------------------------------------
 Mary Malmros     | Cayman Systems Inc, 26 Landsdowne St, Cambridge, MA 02139
 mary@cayman.com  | Phone 617-494-1999  Fax 617-494-5167  AppleLink CAYMAN.TECH


Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
From: lmgay@aio.jsc.nasa.gov (Leroy M. Gay)
Subject: Re: mubobi (was Re: Bruce Flame)
Organization: nasa-jsc
Date: Tue, 14 Apr 1992 18:06:19 GMT

jon@zeus.med.utah.edu (Jonathan Byrd) writes:
: In article <1992Apr14.105113.877@gacvx2.gac.edu> karsten@nic.gac.edu (Karsten Hendrick) writes:
: 
:    I have seen some people get nailed at a point fighting tournament,
:    and the referee usually gave a warning to the person
:    who scored the hit, telling them not to hit so hard.  I would 
:    have warned the person who got hit to duck/block/slip/evade 
:    next time, instead of bitching at the fighter who got in a 
:    legitimate hit.
: 
: a failure to block usually provides ample punishment, and no other
: sanction is necessary, in my opinion.  in my experience, the amount of
: censure given to the person who hit too hard is usually determined by
: the flagrancy of the foul.  if the punch (or kick) penetrates 2" past
: the contact point, it may pass with a warning.  a penetration of 6" is
: more likely to result in loss of a point.  repeated violations (even
: small ones) should result in disqualification.
: 
: in wuko (world union of karate-do organizations) tournaments, they
: recognize "mubobi," or defenseless action.  if a fighter runs into a
: blow with no offensive intent, he loses a point (in addition to his
: teeth).  mubobi also applies to those who turn away and cover up.
: 
: obAnecdote:
: 
: at a tournament in phoenix, i once saw brad garso knock a guy out for
: 5 minutes with a punch that penetrated only about 2".  the guy dropped
: both hands to catch brad's kick, and took a crisp reverse punch right
: on the chin.  the guy's eyes rolled back, and his face hit the floor
: at brad's feet.  i swear to ghod he didn't move for 5 minutes.  we all
: thought he was dead.  the judges called a foul, and awarded a point to
: the unconscious fighter (who was hauled off by the paramedics).  they
: then awarded the match to brad, since the unconscious fighter could
: not continue.  in my opinion, this was a fair way of dealing with the
: situation.  the punch was not a flagrant violation, and the fallen
: fighter was partially responsible for the contact.  by censuring brad,
: the judges showed that no excessive contact would be tolerated, and by
: awarding him the victory, they showed that being knocked out is not
: the way to win a match.
: 
: --
: jonathan byrd
: jon@apollo.med.utah.edu

I have to disagree.  Hard hits are going to happen at a point contact
tournament, but it is not a full contact tournament and both competitors
should be able to go to work the next day with at most bruises.  If a
person knocks out somebody then he is demostrating a lack of control
and should be disqualified.

-- Leroy __
From: nkraft@bkhouse.cts.com (Norman Kraft)
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
Subject: Re: Ouch! Groin kick
Date: 11 Apr 92 01:29:50 GMT
Article-I.D.: bkhouse.nkraft.0320
Organization: Argus Computing, San Diego, CA
X-NewsSoftware: Amiga GRn V1.28 2/25/92 (Beta) by Mike Schwartz

Just a bit of trivia on this topic. In this month's Inside Kung Fu, there
is an article about the 1977 Benny Urquidez (Karate) vs. Narongnoi
Kiattibandit (Muay Thai) fight, incidently supposed to be the first time
that a Thai fighter stepped into the ring with an American kickboxer.
In any case, during this full-contact fight, the Thai fighter kicked and 
kneed Urquidez in the groin no less than 6 times, and probably several
more. To his credit, Urquidez held up through nine rounds of this. Ouch!

Wonder if he bounced on his heels between kicks? ;)

Norm.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------

Norman R. Kraft 			   INET  : nkraft@bkhouse.cts.com
Senior Partner				   UUCP  : ucsd!crash!bkhouse!nkraft
Argus Computing 			   GENIE : N.KRAFT3
San Diego, CA				   PORTAL: nkraft@cup.portal.com

----------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: balrog@lclark.edu (Richard Rogers)
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
Subject: Re: Question on Musashi
Summary: Not the way I heard it, folklore
Date: 12 Apr 92 08:35:46 GMT
Article-I.D.: lclark.1992Apr12.083546.17560
Organization: Lewis & Clark College, Portland OR

Actually, in my copy of the Book of Five Rings, the intro claims that
Musashi was only defeated once, by a master of the staff whom he had
previously beaten the tar out of and who, after running off to the hills
to meditate for a long time, came back with a much shorter staff and 
proceeded to whip the bejeezus out of our hero [who them trapsed off 
to the hills to mediatate and finally, presumably, died]. Remember, of
course, that this is history mixed with folklore so anything is possible.

---------------
The Force Luke, use the Force.
---------------
From: willimsa@unix1.tcd.ie (Gavin Williams)
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
Subject: >>Injuries?y
Date: 13 Apr 92 23:33:55 GMT
Organization: Trinity College, Dublin

In <1992Apr13.094239.430@spacm1.spac.spc.com> ibasacc11@spacm1.spac.spc.com writes:

>In article <willimsa.703164148@unix1.tcd.ie>, willimsa@unix1.tcd.ie (Gavin Williams) writes:
>> 
>> midshaft break of the ulna, (the forearm bone following from the
>> little finger), and I want to get the arm as strong as possible
>> as soon as possible.

>I had the same exact injury. My break was such that it could not be set 
>therefore it was surgically repaired and I have a metal plate in my arm. I 
>found it was easier to regain my strength than I thought it would be. The 
>hardest part was trying not to rush my comeback. I was on a professional 
>rehabilitation program to regain my strength which took about six weeks. Do not 
>build up one arm to the exclusion of the other and work on the wrist and 
>shoulders too. My rehabilitation consisted of arm and shoulder stretching then 
>a workout using light weights (I started with 2.5 lbs. and worked my way to 10 
>lbs). Don't forget to strengthen your wrists and shoulders also else they may 
>be making up for your lack of strenght in you arm. Your bone will heal at its 
>own pace. Good luck.

Ok, this is what happened.  I was in a competition and got in the way of a 
chudan mawashi-geri, (my fault, should have got out of the way ;-7 ).
Fortunately, I didn't really notice until after the competition, (as I still
had the kata section to go).  *Unfortunately* I did notice afterwards-ouch!
I was supposed to get a plate put in but I had a very important interview the
next day so I skipped it.  Therefore the cast was above the elbow and I 
basically couldn't use that arm at all.  However, the advantage was that my
arm was in this big tough fibreglass cast so I didn't have to worry about it. 

I *was* able to work the shoulder as I was able to train, but my wrist and 
upper arm are both as weak as kittens.  I'm trying the light weights at the
moment but I am useless when it comes to bagwork.

BTW, there's no fear of relying too much on my 'good' arm as I sprained the 
hand a short while ago so my other arm isn't much good either. :-7

The question is, will I learn something???

The answer is,   GET OUT OF THE WAY OF *ANY* KICKS!!!!!!

This article is posted to the net as a public service announcement. :-) :-)


As usual, JIMHO

--
         ______________________________________________________________
	|  A.G. Williams          |        Plus qu'il n'en faut.       |    
	|  willimsa@unix1.tcd.ie  |                                    |
	|_________________________|____________________________________|

--
         ______________________________________________________________
	|  A.G. Williams          |        Plus qu'il n'en faut.       |    
	|  willimsa@unix1.tcd.ie  |                                    |
	|_________________________|____________________________________|
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
From: tekare00@nx14.mik.uky.edu (thomas e karelis)
Subject: Re: Breaking
Organization: University Of Kentucky, Dept. of Math Sciences
Date: Wed, 8 Apr 1992 17:30:13 GMT
X-Bytes: 

In article <willimsa.702504201@unix1.tcd.ie> willimsa@unix1.tcd.ie (Gavin  
Williams) writes:
> Some of you out there may remember a passage in Funakoshi Sensei's book,
> 'My Way of Life'.  In it he refers to any people who boast about  
breaking and
> use it, among other things, as a demonstration of skill.  He says that  
they 
> are very much distanced from the true meaning of Karate.  (I can get the  
actual
> quote if there is enough interest.)
> 
> My question is, how would you reconcile this with the practice among  
certain
> forms of Martial Arts (I know TKD does it and have heard that others  
may), of
> breaking boards and blocks etc. as part of the proficiency examinations  
for 
> gradings and advancement?



I think the most important thing to remember is that breaking is only a  
means to an end, not an end in itself.

Just my $0.02.
   
                                            Tom.
From: snorthc@relay.nswc.navy.mil (Stephen Northcutt)
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
Subject: Re: Women's Self-Defense
Date: 17 Apr 92 16:05:31 GMT
Reply-To: snorthc@relay.nswc.navy.mil (Stephen Northcutt)
Organization: Naval Surface Warfare Center

Jerome Braun:
>if the question has been previously beaten to death.   

I wouldn't say the question has been beaten to death by any means and
I am certainly not satisfied that I have ANY of the answers to this
question.  I know the general consensus of the net is that this is a
subject you can't learn from a book, even so I hope to pick up my copy
of 101 Weapons for Women by Sa Bu Nim Rodney Rice today.  If it is any
good, I'll post a review.

If we can agree up front that any cirriculum we develop would be
public domain, I would be glad to work with you via mail on your
project!!! (Stephen extends handshake :-)

> Should the teachers be men or women, or both, or does it matter?
I should think ideally a couple of each.  I would expect you would
want to do some role playing, both demonstrating  to and participating
with the students.

>1.  What are the most essential things which should be taught?
  Situational awareness, there was a GREAT thread on this a month or
so ago, maybe someone can send that to you,

  Total commitment.  This is the core of MA anyway (as the net had
to remind me when I was straying to far onto sport): One encounter, one chance.

>  b.  What are the most common situations?
Well I think the current stats are 1 in 12.5 women are raped or
attempted raped.  Slightly more than half are by someone they know,
so knowing their [women's] own home AND learning the escape routes
of a home they visit is advisable.

Jogging trails, parking lots, and ATM machines are all great places
to get raped.

Weapons (guns knives) are used fairly often.  Before AIDS, I figured
a good rule of thumb would be to always submit to a weapon holder.
Now, I start to wonder if fighting to the death isn't such a dumb idea.

BFO: the place this kind of training always falls apart is when you
try to choose a few really good techniques. :-(

P.S.  Threads you might want to avoid:
  Is a kick to the groin effective?  A.  About 1/3 of the time, maybe. 
  Is strength the critical factor?   A.  Yes, but you get flamed for
                                         even *thinking* it.

===================================================================
Kubota Sensei has put out a GREAT video on use of the kubotan!!!!!!
From: sog@craycos.com (Steve Gombosi)
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
Subject: Re: Choosing a martial art - effectiveness?
Date: 10 Apr 92 21:39:31 GMT
Organization: Cray Computer Corporation

In article <barry.702876438@citr.uq.oz.au> barry@citr.uq.oz.au (Barry Kitson) writes:
>
>
>	Think of it this way: If there exist a few simple techniques, 
>which can be taught and learnt in 6 weeks, and which are always
>effective, why are so many of us working so hard? :^)  
>

Masochism ;-).

Steve
From: "elliott chapin" <elliott.chapin@canrem.com>
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
Subject: training opportunitie
Date: 16 Apr 92 14:04:54 EST
Reply-To: "elliott chapin" <elliott.chapin@canrem.com>
Distribution: rec
Organization: Canada Remote Systems

RT>One of our students is 99% certain she'll get to go to Hong Kong either
RT>late this year or early next year. She'd like to know what training
RT>opportunites would be available. She's had dance, kenpo, and a smidgen
RT>of jiu-jitsu.

If she'd consider looking at Wu style Tai Chi Chuan - Eddie Wu's
uncle (Wu Da Xing) lives in Hong Kong.

Elliott Chapin
---
  DeLuxe 1.12 #4315  elliott.chapin@canrem.com
--
Canada Remote Systems  - Toronto, Ontario/Detroit, MI
World's Largest PCBOARD System - 416-629-7000/629-7044
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts