From: gmark@cbnewse.cb.att.com (gilbert.m.stewart)
Subject: Re: Joining
Organization: AT&T
Date: Sat, 25 Jul 1992 19:27:52 GMT

In article <1992Jul25.142610.15034@ncsu.edu>, sat@ailab.ncsu.edu (Scott Andrew Tai) writes:
> 
> Dave.Aronson@f120.n109.z1.fidonet.org (Dave Aronson) writes:
> Hardly.  It is well-known that the 2% limit is quite blurry; estimates go as
> high as 20% as to what percent actually manages to qualify

I wouldn't be surprised.  But I can say that if I were to choose people
to associate with based on only one characteristic, it might very well
be this 20%.  Just a personal bias.  I have found that my ability to reason
with and discuss things with people seems to me to correlate with things
like their IQ, job, schooling, etc..
> 
>      These are among MENSA's stated purposes:
> 
>      1) to identify and foster human intelligence for the benefit of
>         humanity
> 
>      2) to encourage research in the nature, characteristics, and uses
>         of intelligence
> 
> If ever there was a time when it was needed for MENSA to live up to its
> charter, this is it.  Yet sadly, all some people expect from MENSA is to

Well, I'd have to say that intelligent people do indeed do these things,
and may be members of Mensa.  I'd say a bigger problem is preventing
stupid people from trying the same things.

> learn a new card game, or to talk about motorcycles, go to fun parties, etc.
> I think this is why MENSA seems so shallow and its appeal is so small.

Probably true.  This may very well be a perception that some people have.
Frankly I don't care.  Maybe I should, but if I said I gave a crap, I'd
be exaggerating.  But that's just me.  Also, I used to got to Mensa
gatherings to have fun and relax.  Not to impress someone with my vast
knowledge of whatever-the-heck is in vogue.  And for contributing to
society, I do that at work.

> Whether anyone admits it or not, MENSA is not respected.  Only a very small

Sure.  Lots of people deride the achievements of folks in the Olympics, too.
And these are quite a bit more selective than any high IQ group.  But it
doesn't prevent folks from pissing and moaning about how "I could do
that if I had time" or "Sure, those weightlifters are all muscle-headed,
dumb jocks".  And engineers are all nerds.  And then we have the PC types
who will deride their own group to appear "humble" or "just one of the guys"
or "in touch with Real People."  I could be rich. I just don't want to
work in an office.  I could be a great actor, but I don't have time to
work that long without being paid.  I could be a great runner, but I
just like real, "human" endeavors, like writing.  A large percentage
of this is just pissing and moaning and jealousy.  The fact is, I'm
a smart guy, and I love being smart.  Sorry.  I like people that I think
are smart.  I've found a high correlation between IQ and membership
in Mensa and members of stereotypical "high intelligence" occupations
and those folks' reasonableness, humor, lower levels of taking themselves
seriously, and (selfishly) entertainment value to me, personally.  Sure,
we can spew bullshit about how "it's the heart that counts", how "a person's
goodness, what's inside, that counts," there are "so many aspects of
the human soul that can't be measure on tests, like art, music, poetry".
But of the people that I like, those people that are good at all those things,
they tend to smart.  Damn smart.  And some peoples' egos react in such a
way that this pisses them off.  The thing I most care about regarding
stupid people is that sometimes they get air-space to voice illogical
opinions that sway other stupid people and they get control over some
resource and cause problems for society in general.  

I find also that stupid people tend to more unreasonable and mean-
spirited and nasty.  I find smart people to be nicer.  Is it that
I tend to perceive nice people as smarter?  Possibly.  Do these people
I consider smart/nice tend to be good at things that are perceived by
many to be requiring intelligence?  Yes.  Have I observed this "niceness"
prior to seeing any other evidence of "intelligence"?  Yes again.
Is it possible that the most stupid people are frustrated by a world
full of things they don't quite get, and that's the reason they're mean?
Maybe.  It may throw folks for a loop and get the PC hackles up, but
frankly, I don't like mean people.  And I don't like stupid people.
Just don't.  Sorry.

I sometimes think about this Ice-T thing and rap songs supposedly
recommending killing cops.  Now, I can understand someone being upset
by this.  But isn't the real problem that there are people around that
might just do any damn fool thing they hear on the radio?  These are
stupid people.  That's why I feel safer around smart people.  And
who decides this?  Well, they're my feelings and my friends.  I
do.  It's the same right anyone else has on this planet.  I like
lots of people, and they tend to be smart people.

> fraction of 1% of qualifying people bother to join.  I think it would be

I could have been a good lawyer, according to test scores, IQ tests,
career evaluations, etc..  The people administering these tests say
they use them because there's a high correlation between high IQ scores,
career (personality profiles, I think they were called, or "aptitude
assessments" or something), SATs, etc., and academic/occupational
success.  I could have been a good doctor.  I chose not to be (no,
breathe easy -- I'm not a physician :-) ).  There's a possibility
that I would not be, but I'd rather be treated by a doctor with
intelligence and at the top of his class than take a chance on having a
heart operation done by a well-meaning, good-hearted, underachiever
with bad grades, an unsupportive homelife, and a lot of spunk.
I don't require that my friends be members of Mensa, but I like
smart people.  It's a personal prejudice that works for me.

> great if MENSA could stop being a parody of itself and become an active
> positive force.

I guess if all the smart people in the world addressed themselves to
the problems at hand it would be wonderful if there were no stupid
people to argue with them.

There'd be more parking places, too.


GMS