HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: gt4458c@prism.gatech.edu (John Stephens Cronin)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: AMT .380, Colt Mustang, or other
Date: 12 Nov 92 14:56:37 GMT
Organization: Common Container Liberation Front


In article <9211111815.AA11656@cyclone.sbi.com> jbm@cyclone.sbi.com (Jeffrey B. Moore) writes:
#scylax!tiglath@uunet.UU.NET writes:
##  People still like to shoot arrows and I bet it is terrific fun
##  Many people like 1911 for their own reasons and thats fine too.
##  Now, I have a habit to look at police officers' guns to note what
##  he or she chose.  It is amazing how many of them chose to carry
##  Glocks.   I guess than when you are expecting trouble you want
##  the state of the art on your side and no less.  
#
#I guess that when your issue weapon is mandated by a PD bureaucrat
#with the least-common-denominator officer in mind, that weapon will
#have training wheels.

Now, now, be fair.  I would say that the Glock has even less "training
wheels" than the Colt 1911, what with it not having a manual safety, or
grip safety.  In fact, for all practical shooting purposes the thing
doesn't really have a safety at all.  I am amazed they even let police
carry it.  I will also have to say that if I were buying a pistol (one
that costs real money - ie more than $250 or so) I would probably choose
the Glock.  A friend of mine has one and it is very nice.  It is certainly
much nicer to shoot than the Colts I fired while in the military (the
Berettas were just becoming common and there were still quite a few of
the 1911's around).

#(I know, I know, that was *obvious* flamebait, and I walked right into
# it.  s/he couldn't possibly have actually meant that last
# paragraph...)

Some people probably think the police really do have state of the art
weapons for the most part.  While they are becoming better armed, they
still aren't carrying what I would want if there was a significant threat
of urban combat in my life (ie something along the lines of an Uzi or H&K
MP5 - a full auto SMG).  s/he may have made the statement from honest
ignorance.  That said, police these days DO seem to be carrying better pistols
by far than they were 10 years ago ie jump to 9mm or .45 automatic versus .38
or .357 revolver.  While I would certainly feel armed with a .357 and a
Remington 870, I would much prefer a Glock and a submachinegun.

#-Jeff Moore (jbm@sbi.com)
#
# * Picture your favorite pithy saying, rock lyric, or quotation from
# * an epic poem here.  Saves me the trouble.


-- 
John Cronin	Internet: gt4458c@prism.gatech.edu	Phone: (404) 876-1419
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Live each day as if it's your last.  One day you'll be right.  -- me
Lighten up, you're gonna die whether you have fun or not.      -- me again
From: gwyn@smoke.brl.mil (Doug Gwyn)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: AMT .380, Colt Mustang, or other?
Date: 12 Nov 92 20:25:03 GMT
Organization: U.S. Army Ballistic Research Lab, APG MD.


In article <1992Nov10.054607.10721@henson.cc.wwu.edu> n9020351@henson.cc.wwu.edu (James Douglas Del-Vecchio) writes:
#The Glock, despite its "safe action" claim, is a single action
#(double action: trigger cocks and releases hammer,  
#single action: trigger cannot cock hammer).

Wrong -- most of a Glock's trigger pull is used to cock the striker,
and the very end of the pull releases it, meeting the definition of DA.

However, there are more than two action designs in use these days and
so the SA vs. DA distinction is no longer as clear-cut as it used to be.

Why not establish whatever criterion it is that actually matters rather
than trying to map actions into simplistic categories?
From: gt4458c@prism.gatech.edu (John Stephens Cronin)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: Two questions
Date: 13 Nov 92 16:54:34 GMT
Organization: Common Container Liberation Front


In article <1992Nov12.162932.13656@cbnewsk.cb.att.com> rps@hoqax.att.com (Robert P Schwendel) writes:
->Now to the next topic. I've had a 4" 686 for the past 4 months and
->have put about 400 rounds through it so far. My problem is with
->accuracy. From a bench, I'm tending to shoot low and slightly to
->the left of my target point. From a Weaver stance, I'm pretty
->consistent in the black. Now, with a friend's 6" 686, I can tell
->the gun to do whatever I want. So, do I just need to practice more
->with my gun or can someone offer me some advice on correcting a
->problem I may be having but am not aware of. BTW, I'm shooting
->consistent 3" groups from the bench, just not where I'm aiming
->(or at least where I think I'm aiming.) Also, a friend sited the
->gun for me, and I tweaked it a bit; but he can still make it do whatever
->he wants and I'm still low to the left. He says the gun is sited right
->and I just need to practice more.

If I had to guess, I would say that your gun is sighted right - for your
friend.  If you can shoot the gun from the bench and get 3 inch groups,
but they are consistently low and left, then you need to adjust your
sights.  Each individual shooter holds and aims a gun slightly different.
Just because it shoots great for your friend does not mean it will shoot
great for you, without some adjustments.  So my advice is: since you own
the gun get it zeroed for you, and let your friend use the Kentucky windage.
Zero it at the bench, and I bet you can make yours do everything that you
can make your friend's do, and that your friend (same friend?) can make yours
do. Then practice more too, just to be sure.

-- 
John Cronin	Internet: gt4458c@prism.gatech.edu	Phone: (404) 876-1419
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Live each day as if it's your last.  One day you'll be right.  -- me
Lighten up, you're gonna die whether you have fun or not.      -- me again
From: cash@convex.com (Peter Cash)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: .44 Special for self defense?
Date: 11 Nov 92 01:16:56 GMT
Article-I.D.: news.1992Nov10.184016.19618
Organization: The Instrumentality

In article <9260@blue.cis.pitt.edu.UUCP> dcwst8+@pitt.edu (David C Winters) writes:
...
#     About the caliber: .44 Spl isn't a caliber I've seen much about.
#Do any of the ammunition manufacturers offer any of the high-performance
#JHP's, or any of the exotic stuff (Black Talon, Glaser, etc.) for the
#.44 Special?

The .44 special is, in principle, an excellent round whose potential is
often overlooked. The .44 Special can be loaded to about the same ballistic
characteristics as the .45 ACP. Unfortunately, its lack of popularity means
that there is a paucity of good commercial defense loads available for it.
Federal makes a soft lead hollow point that's fairly hot, and would be my
first choice for a commercial defensive load in this caliber (but the soft
lead bullet causes terrible barrel leading, so you won't want to shoot this
load a lot). Second choice would be the Winchester silvertip .44
special--it's a lighter bullet than the Federal, and would overpenetrate
less. I would rely on either of these cartridges before any .38
special--plus p or no.

Given what's available, the .44 special is basically a reloader's
caliber--and reloading this cartridge is a lot of fun. There's a lot of
room to play with, and it's _much_ more pleasant to shoot than the .44 mag.



-- 
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
             |      Die Welt ist alles, was Zerfall ist.     |
Peter Cash   |       (apologies to Ludwig Wittgenstein)      |cash@convex.com
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
From: holger@vmars.tuwien.ac.at (Holger Reusch (Dipl. Gerhard + Joe))
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: carrying guns for self-defense
Date: 10 Nov 92 15:06:33 GMT
Organization: Technical University Vienna, Dept. for Realtime Systems, AUSTRIA

U28037%uicvm.uic.edu@OHSTVMA.ACS.OHIO-STATE.EDU (Jason Kratz) asks:
#Do you people all have licenses to legally carry
#guns or do you do it illegally?

Of course illegally.  Why else should we tell the whole world  on
a  generally readable channel about it.  Special greetings to the
NSA and the FBI!  :-) (Sorry, I couldn't resist!)

Jokes aside, even those of us who aren't allowed to carry  a  gun
try to help with information as good as they can.  You don't need
to carry a gun to give some tips about the subject.  So,  if  you
have any specific questions, fire away [pun intended].

-- 
| Holger Reusch                             |
| Technical University of Vienna, Austria <-+--- No kangaroos here,
| Dept. for Real-Time Systems               |    sorry!
| holger@vmars.tuwien.ac.at                 |
From: bercov@bevsun.bev.lbl.gov (John Bercovitz)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: Neck sizing
Date: 11 Nov 92 20:51:51 GMT
Organization: Lawrence Berkeley Laboratory, California

In article <1992Nov11.035257.22749@news.eng.convex.com> cash@convex.com 
(Peter Cash) writes:

#Well, I'm getting set up to reload for my 6.5 Swedish Mauser, and I have a
#couple of questions. First of all, what's the consensus out there on neck
#sizing vs. full length sizing? Can I get away just with neck sizing, or
#will I have to resize full length every once in a while? Or should I forget
#about neck sizing?

If that's one o' them rear lockup jobs, you may find that it stretches
cases enough that you can't get away with neck sizing continuously. You
may well have to full-length resize every time or every other time.  I'm
no expert on the particular rifle I think you have, so this is just a
caveat.  Generally, this is a pretty darned accurate cartridge/rifle as is.
Have you had any accuracy trouble with it?  Just trying to improve it?

John Bercovitz     (JHBercovitz@lbl.gov)
From: wes@hpbs2500.boi.hp.com (Wes Nielson)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: Why are there no reliable semi-auto shotguns?
Date: 8 Nov 92 23:05:54 GMT
Organization: Hewlett-Packard / Boise, Idaho

Peter Alan Kasler (tmi@netcom.com) wrote:
: In <25499@sybase.sybase.com> mtxinu!sybase!joe@ucbvax.Berkeley.EDU (Joseph Weinstein) writes:
: 
: 
: #Why are there no highly reliable semi-auto shotguns
: #for defence?
: 
: 	There is at least one: the Benelli M1 Super 90.
:       .
:       .
: 	Although I carry a Benelli, with proper training there is no
: significant burden to using a pump-action shotgun, such as a Remington
: 870, for defense.
: -- 
:      Peter Alan Kasler


I am planning to purchase a Benelli M1 within the next few months. Are the
Ghost Ring sights worth getting? How about the pistol grip stock?

---

Wes Nielson
wes@hpdmd48.boi.hp.com
From: nahst6+@pitt.edu (Nathan A Horstman)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Anyone know anything about...
Date: 11 Nov 92 20:51:44 GMT
Organization: University of Pittsburgh


Now that I got your attention :)  

Does anyone know anything about the Tokarev semi-auto pistols in 9mm?
Are they accurate? 
Dependable?

I've seen them for just a little over a hundred bucks dealer price and if they
are in fact a decent gun and you don't care much for looks they might be a
steal.  

Anyone have one or have ay info on their performance?

Thanks in advance,
Nathan

<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<-->>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>       G  O       H  O  U  S  T  O  N 
<<      Nathan A. Horstman      >>  OOOO  IIIIII LL     EEEEEE RRRRR   SSSS  ||
<<   University of Pittsburgh   >> OO  OO   II   LL     EE     RR  RR SS     ||
<< in%"nahst6@vms.cis.pitt.edu" >> OO  OO   II   LL     EEEE   RRRRR   SSSS  ||
<<      nahst6+@pitt.edu        >> OO  OO   II   LL     EE     RR RR      SS ||
<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<-->>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>  OOOO  IIIIII LLLLLL EEEEEE RR  RR  SSSS  oo
From: unislc@unislc.slc.unisys.com (James Warren)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: Chinese TS45 air rifles (need info)
Date: 9 Nov 92 18:51:57 GMT
Article-I.D.: unislc.1992Nov9.163404.14268
Organization: Unisys Corporation SLC

#From article <74052@hydra.gatech.EDU>, by gt4458c@prism.gatech.edu (John Stephens Cronin):
# 
# I have recently seen an add for a chinese TS45 air rifle for $49.95.
# I am interested in the accuracy, power and durability of this rifle.
# It is a spring piston, side cocking .177 caliber airgun with a claimed
# velocity of 800 feet per second.  If this is correct, it seems this would
# be perfect for getting rid of the squirrels that wish to live in my attic
# to avoid the cold weather.  I previously used a Crossman (766? or something
# like that - next step up from 760).  My room-mates broke it, and besides,
# it took to long to pump it up 10 times, I would rather just be able to pump
# cock it once and be done with it.

I have bought several hundred of them to sell to my friends.  For the
money they are very good.  Most triggers are very heavy.  Most stocks are
pretty cheep looking.  When new, they shoot >800 fps, but as they age,
the velocity drops (my 2 yr old one shoots aprox 500 fps).  

If you don't want to spend >$200 on an air rifle, you can't beat these.
From: apas612@hermes.chpc.utexas.edu (Frank W. Douma)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: LONG, rec.guns discussion
Date: 13 Nov 92 15:26:49 GMT
Organization: The University of Texas System - CHPC

Mr. Moderator:

You're doing a fine job, the gentleman with complaints about your
editorial style is overreacting.  I have yet to find any of your
insertions into postings to be a problem,distraction,irritant,
etc.  This group will turn into t.p.g if it goes un-moderated,
probably in a matter of hours.  PLEASE DO NOT change anything
about this group, your moderation, or your editorial style.

Frank W. Douma
University of Texas

(Boy do I wish I'd thought a few seconds longer about recoil effects!)
From: efk00@cd.amdahl.com (Eddie Kieger)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: Small autos for carry (was Re: I picked PPK/S over Mustang and 380 backup....)
Date: 9 Nov 92 18:52:18 GMT
Article-I.D.: JUTS.45ay02MH2aOy01
Organization: Amdahl Corporation, Sunnyvale CA


#In article <BxAsup.39G@cs.psu.edu> drj@dev-null.phys.psu.edu (Dan Jeuch) writes:
##In article <17Vc02Ns2a8k01@JUTS.ccc.amdahl.com> efk00@cd.amdahl.com (Eddie Kieger) writes:

###
###1) Must be double action
###2) Should be roughly thge same size as the guns previously mentioned 
###   (Mustang, 380 backup, etc.)
###3) MUST have a decent trigger pull.
###4) I would prefer a 9mm parabellum, but it must be .380ACP minimum.
##
##As for point #4, I believe one of the smallest 9mm guns available is the
##Firestar.  Personally, I've never fired it, and I think it's a bit heavy.
##For carry, I prefer something light.  Anyway...
#
#How about a S&W 3913? After doing some survey on what are available
#in the market, I think it is a good choice for small to medium size
#people. What do you guys think?
#
#BTW, what are the differences between a S&W 3913 and a S&W 3913 Lady Smith?
#What are the pros and cons for a guy to use a Lady Smith? ;)

The main one is that the ladysmith does NOT have the ambidextrous 
safety (important as the wife is a southpaw, and I am a righty.....)

Later, Eddie
From: bressler@iftccu.boeing.com (Rick Bressler)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: Re: AMT .380, Colt Mustang, or other?
Date: 13 Nov 92 15:26:48 GMT
Organization: Boeing Commercial Airplane Group


/ iftccu:rec.guns / tiglath@scylax.boeing.com /  7:49 am  Nov 11, 1992 /

#I am sure many people enjoy single action guns, I am not criticizing
#them.  My point is that when superior technology becomes available
#you stick to older designs at your peril.  God forbid you ever
#had to confront a foe with a Glock 21 with 14 45 ACP rounds in his gun,
#with a 1911 model in your hand.  All things being equal you are
#in serious trouble.  It is fine to go to a competition with a 1911
#but to carry a gun cocked and locked all day, would make me real
#uneasy.

I'm not sure I understand this.  What does capacity have to do with
this?  One perp, one shot.....  Actually, if it is Ted Godzilla Bundy or
something, taking a break after that 9th shot to reload might not be a
bad idea.  After all, the guy might be falling down by then, you might
be able to save ammo.  :-) On the other hand, you may need full magazine
if he's still coming.....  If you are counting on those extra 5 shots in
your Glock to save you, you may be disappointed.  :-) :-)

Seriously, If you feel that capacity is that important, there is a
problem.  If you can't reliably hit on first shots you probably
shouldn't be packing.  I've seen too many bozo's at the range shooting
holes in the overheads because they couldn't control their large
capacity firearms in rapid fire.  Besides, reloading shouldn't take more
than 2-4 seconds.  If you are in a situation where you can't take a 4
second brake to reload every 9 rounds, you are in a world of hurt.  I
don't think the Glock is going to save you either.  Further, you should
carry at least one extra mag for a host of reasons, even if you've got
one of those new wizzer dizzer 100 round wonder nines.  Another data
point:  I think the average self defense confrontation consumes less
than 3 shots.

On the other hand, the Glock safe action system is probably very good
for people transitioning from revolvers, and it probably is the next
best thing to cocked and locked.  :-)

Again, seriously, remember the priorities of self defense.

1) Situational awareness.

2) Tactics.

3) Skill with your equipment.

And a distant fourth:

4) The equipment itself.

If you start wildly spraying lead at somebody who knows what they are
doing, they may crap their pants and faint.  More likely, they will
shoot you in the eye with aimed fire from their .22 Jennings, which like
your Glock will melt if you forget and set it on the stove.  :-)

Rick.

Seriously, I have nothing against Glocks.  I think everybody should own
a few.  Why just recently, there was a Glock only competition....
From: dnewcomb@whale.st.usm.edu (Donald R. Newcomb)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: fun things to shoot at
Date: 11 Nov 92 20:52:22 GMT
Organization: University of Southern Mississippi

In the farming areas around here they used to grow a fruit called a
"cow melon". It was about the size of a honey-dew but filled with a
solid green mass. I never understood why they were grown but it didn't
seem to be for human consumption. Anyway, my brother-in-law didn't
mind if I took a few from his farm to shoot at. Putting a .30-'06
round into one of those was a much fun as the 4th of July. Blowed
'em up real good. 8-)
-- 

Donald R. Newcomb                * The one who dies with the most toys
dnewcomb@whale.st.usm.edu        * has accomplished nothing beyond
newcomb@usmcp6.bitnet            * enslaving himself to his possessions.
From: cash@convex.com (Peter Cash)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Mini 14 fires when not in battery
Date: 11 Nov 92 01:18:09 GMT
Organization: The Instrumentality

I was shooting my Mini 14 at the range last Saturday, when I noticed
something a trifle worrisome. Twice, I had a failure to feed (due to a
flawed after-market magazine); in both instances, the shell was wedged at
an angle between the magazine and the chamber, and in both instances, I
found out about what happened when I heard a "click" instead of a "bang".

Is the Mini 14 supposed to be capable of firing when the bolt is not fully
closed? If so, isn't this unsafe? (If the bolt were to fail to close, but
the cartridge is in line so the firing pin hits the primer, the unsupported
case might rupture.)

I'd appreciate feedback on this.

-- 
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
             |      Die Welt ist alles, was Zerfall ist.     |
Peter Cash   |       (apologies to Ludwig Wittgenstein)      |cash@convex.com
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
From: bercov@bevsun.bev.lbl.gov (John Bercovitz)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: distance a .22 lr travels
Date: 11 Nov 92 01:17:32 GMT
Organization: Lawrence Berkeley Laboratory, California

In article <BxB8BM.3F5@news.cso.uiuc.edu> cs125c51@dcl-nxt31.cso.uiuc.edu 
(cs125 student) writes:

#I'm fairly new to shooting .22's, and I have a question about how far they  
#really travel. I use CCI mini-mags, hv, and do all of my shooting in the  
#direction, a direction I need to shoot in. Now, (that's my Ross Perot  
#imitation), on the box it says, "Dangerous to 1 1/2 miles", and I believe that.  
#My question: Is that at a shooting angle of 45 degrees? Most of my shooting  
#will be at angles of about 30 degrees and lower. Now how far will the bullet  
#travel? After traveling a mile, will the terminal velocity really be enough to
#do some damage to a body, both head and non-head areas?

#Can I simply use 1.5 miles as maximum distance traveled at 45 degrees and use  
#trig to figure out the rest? How much different is std velocity?

First thing is that you really must have a backstop.  You don't want to
shoot in a direction where you have to constantly monitor a vast area
for occupants, human or otherwise.  Too much responsibility.

That 1.5 miles is a nominal figure and depends on skipping - bullets bounce
or ricochet off flat surfaces and thereby go much further than their 
ballistic trajectory alone would indicate.  For 22 rimfire bullets, maximum
ballistic range is found at a muzzle elevation of around 35 degrees, as I
recall.  

That 45 degree figure you're thinking of is for a projectile in a vacuum.
In a vacuum, range is (1/g)(v^2)(sin(2 theta)).  So maximum range in a
vacuum is at 45 degrees.  The range in a vacuum for a 1500 fps bullet (how
fast _do_ CCI MiniMags go?) would be 1500^2/32.174 = 13 miles!  And on 
the moon it would be 6 times that distance, of course.

I just ran the Sierra ballistic program for a 40 gn bullet with a bc of
.1 and an initial velocity of 1500 fps.  I found that at 1000 yards the
velocity had fallen to 300 or so fps.  This is getting into the sub-
lethal area but I sure as heck wouldn't count on it.

Anyway, this has been fun but you really must have a backstop.

John Bercovitz     (JHBercovitz@lbl.gov)