From: bense@oasys.dt.navy.mil (Ronald Bense)
Newsgroups: alt.abortion.inequity
Subject: Re: Flogging an Undecided (formerly: The Disease is Cropping...)
Date: 15 Apr 92 15:33:45 GMT
Reply-To: bense@oasys.dt.navy.mil (Ronald Bense)
Organization: Carderock Division, NSWC, Bethesda, MD

In alt.abortion.inequity, kwelch@eniac.seas.upenn.edu (Mr. President) writes:
>Ron
>>Kevin W.

>Okay, pro-death-of-the-fetus-in-abortion
If you want to type that BS out each time, be my guest. I'm pro-choice,
meaning I leave it up to someone else to decide.

>>Pro-choice means that we are for the existance of choice between having
>>a child, adoption, or abortion. Whatever the woman decides. Not a third
>>party. It's kind of a live-let-live viewpoint. (and Kevin will attempt
>>to twist this)

>Hey, I'll twist no one's words.  But I will now acknowledge that from
>you're definitions I am definitely pro-choice:  choice between having
>the child and adoption.  Hey, I'm pro-choice, not anti-choice.

If you're pro-choice, then you will allow someone else to make what
ever choice they desire, without input from you unless it conerns you
directly or your input is requested.

>Hey, I'm not pro-forced birth.  I'm pro-let live.

What do you call it when you force a woman to carry a pregnancy to term
(also known as birth)? Remember, this might kill her.

I'd call it pro-force-birth-to-hell-with-the-womb-carrying-incubator.

>>Ahhh, but they're not parasitic lifeforms in the sense of a fetus, now
>>are they?

>Sure they are.  Infants need their mommies and daddies to feed them.
>They suck on their parents' money.

>fetus requires money.  infant requires money.  fetus requires food.
>infant requires food.  Resources come from parents.  ANy questions?  Good.

Actually, I do. Are you putting yourself through school, or are you
a little parasite that needs mommy and daddie, or some surrogate?

>>Infanticide and euthanasia are not what this group is for, I believe.

>They are logical conclusions from the decisions that defend abortions.

please indicate how this follows logically. euthanasia I agree with
since it is generally carried out by the patient's wish. infanticide
is involuntary, on the part of the infant, and you've placed no restrictions
on it.

>>in appearance to a melted wax figure, a sort of blob. It is human (so
>>is your blood) and is parasitic, does that make it a person? Not to
>>me.

>Gee, did I say it was a person?  IIIIdon'tthinksooooo.  Yeah, my blood's
>human, I sure hope it is.  I don't want duck blood in me.  What's
>your point?

You seem to treat it like a person, so I'll take it you think its a
person, which I believe you've stated with your circumferential logic
so as to squirm out of a previous argument. If you think to treat it
as a person in any sense, then you must consider it a person.

>>Not to dehumanize the fetus completely, since it really doesn't matter.

>Bullshit.  That's the crux of the debate.  It is human and it does matter.

ZZZZZZZZZZZOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMmmmmmmmmmmmmmm.........

You missed that point completely.
To me the fetus does not really matter, since I can't see forcing someone
to be a host for a parasite, namely the woman.

The actual crux of the abortion debate is whether you can take away
the rights of one person for the sake of another, who is parasitic to
the first.

>>I personally long for that day that science enables men to carry children,

>Good, then you'll join us all in bearing children, Ron.

I'm not the one forcing women to have children. Right now I refuse to
make a statement that I would or would not, namely because my feelings
would definitely be re-examined were this to become a reality for me
personally. Glibly stating I would do this would make an entire farce
out of this serious subject. I realize this, I seriously doubt you can
even contemplate what it means.

>>because then ignorant oafs like you would have to line up and be impregnated.
>>(Yeah, we wwould force you to, it is only fair, it's what you want to
>>do to women, whom I notice that you repeatedly leave out of your arguments).

>Last time:  I'm not forcing pregnancy.  I'm not requireing anyone have sex.
>I am forcing respect for human values...human life.  That is a cuase worth
>forcing.

No, you're not forcing pregnancy, just the continuation of that state.
Would you likewise force the boy in Nebraska(?) that had his arms torn
off by whatever machine he was working with to remain armless? Pregnancy
is an accident that can be corrected if the woman so desires.

Most, if not all, pro-choicers respect human values and life. You do
not, since you would forfiet the life of the mother for that of a blob
of cells.

Definition - life is not only being alive, it includes all those other
attributes that make up the living experience. You cause someone to
forfiet their life they would have had without the child by forcing
them to carry it to term.

Ron
Newsgroups: alt.abortion.inequity