HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: luther@ohstpy.mps.ohio-state.edu
Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.misc
Subject: Re: Point or Random Systems, What about both?
Date: 27 Jul 92 09:45:13 EDT

In article <Brqsu0.9Fq@usenet.ucs.indiana.edu>,
joshua salter <jsalter@silver.ucs.indiana.edu> writes:

> 	It seems to me that there should be systems which are designed for
> either point or random roll attributes, as each has it's merits. 

   There is/was a game that tried to combine both random rolls and points
while at the same time trying to prevent the "extreme stat" syndrome, (i.e.
all fighters have great strength and dexterity and low everything else, etc.)
This was DRAGONQUEST.  The player rolled to determine the number of points he
had to spend and a max value for his stats.  These were paired so that the
player who rolled a large total had a low max stat value and one who rolled a
small total was allowed to have a very high max stat.
   Personally I found this system encouraged interesting choices and worked 
rather well to maintained the best aspects of the two systems.  While
DRAGONQUEST had some problems this was one of its high points.

____________________________________________________________________________
B. Luther                             |  
Internet: Luther@mps.ohio-state.edu   |  "Seek simplicity and distrust it"
Ohio State University Physics Dept.   |              -Whitehead
____________________________________________________________________________


Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.misc
From: dv52151@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (Axly)
Subject: Re: SR or T2000, or what's that rigger doing here?
Organization: University of Illinois at Urbana
Date: Sat, 25 Jul 1992 08:48:25 GMT

matoh@lysator.liu.se (Mats \hrman) writes:

>>This falls under the availability ratings in Shadowtech. If the GM wants
>>the arms race to stay small, have the player make a Street Etiquette 
>>to buy the  ammunition at the weapons availability rating. Also, enforce
>>the Street Index. Make sure the players pay big bucks for big guns. Make
>>sure they get into situations where it's drop the big gun or die "Gee,
>>oh troggie bearer of a gyro mounted Heavy Machine Gun, you have been 
>>tossed into the pool. Let the gun drop..or drown." 


>So what happens then to the straight, vanilla by-the-book merc without
>Street Etiquette. Is he impossible to play, or what?

No, not really. He just operates slightly different than most SRun 
characters. In theory, the contacts and etiquette skills the charactesr
have are how they gather information. The Merc, however, isn't in the
intelligence end of the mission, but rather execution phase. That's
when they become fairly valuable. They don't have to stick with just having
a LMG. Buying  a pistol or SMG is usually the first purchase for a 
vanilla merc. Most mercs I've seen played were played simply as military
type characters..triggerpullers plain and simple.

Axly
From: mckinney@cs.utexas.edu (Durwood Y. McKinney)
Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.misc
Subject: Re: RQ: Armor Overlapping Rules
Date: 24 Jul 1992 01:13:31 -0500
Organization: U Texas Dept of Computer Sciences, Austin TX
NNTP-Posting-Host: cash.cs.utexas.edu

Well, you're correct that "soft" refers to the type (i.e. cuirass,
sleeves, etc) of armor.  But these types are listed (p. 67, players
book) as being made from soft leather, bezainted, ringmail, and
chainmail.  All "hard" armors on the chart are listed as being
made from hard leather, cuirbolli, scale, lamellar, brigandine,
and plate. I think the chart (which includes an explanation of
what the asterisks mean) makes it clear that it is permissible to
wear other types of "soft" armor than just soft leather..  You are
getting the soft leather only interpretation from the following
paragraph, I would imagine:

"As described above, it is possible to wear soft armor under hard
armor to provide added protection.  Soft leather and heavy cloth
are commonly used for this...." (p. 68).

I don't interpret this to exclude, say, wearing a chainmail coif
under a plate helm.  In fact, there are several examples of this
type of layering in published runequest supplements (the first
was in Monster Coliseum, but others have done so as well).

While I feel like runequest 3 rules are specific in this area, I
also think they're broken, hence my previous post.

Ken McKinney
mckinney@cs.utexas.edu
.
From: ratinox@splinter.coe.northeastern.edu (Richard Pieri/Stainless Steel Rat)
Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.misc
Subject: Re: Huge Robots as weapons, are they valid? Does it matter?
Date: 28 Jul 92 01:16:09 GMT
Organization: 3WA, Boston Office. Or Nu Meta Chi. Take your pick.
In-reply-to: a481@mindlink.bc.ca's message of 27 Jul 92 19:11:10 GMT
X-Get-A-Clue: Have two, they're small.
X-Signature-Virus-Protection: Version 1.51
X-Posting-Software: GNUS 3.14.1 [ NNTP-based News Reader for GNU Emacs ]

>>>>> On 27 Jul 92 19:11:10 GMT, a481@mindlink.bc.ca (J.D. Frazer) said:

> Veltyen writes:
> There is one valid reason that seems to have been missed on this thread.
> Psychology.
> 
> Think about it, which is better to cow the natives.
>   a) a box on wheels (or treads etc)
>   b) a vaguely humanoid mean son'o'bitch.
> 
> Look up adeptus titanicus for this sort of idea expounded. Of course this is
> only really effective if the "natives" are quite superstisious.

JF> So, we spend billions of dollars developing a 'mech that's only
JF> effective for cowing natives?

Veltyen has an excelent point. Which would scare *you* more, 45 tons of M1
Abrams rolling at you at 50mph, or 45 tons of humanoid, walking steel
bearing down on you at 50mph? I'd be more afraid of getting stomped on like
a bug than ground under steel tracks.

JF> Unh-huh. Total economic sense.

Who said anything about economic :-)? The military certainly doesn't... or
is that Congress?

--Rat

||||| | | | |  |  |  |   |   |    |    |    |   |   |  |  |  |  | | | | | |||||
                                                   __        ___ 
Richard Pieri, Northeastern's Stainless Steel Rat/   | /| / /   | The Worlds
Internet: ratinox@meceng.coe.northeastern.edu   /__  |/ |/ / /| | Welfare Works
    UUCP: ...!northeastern.edu!splinter!ratinox/   | /| / / / | | Association:
  BITNET: UA_RLP@NUHUB{.BITNET}               /__  |/ |/ / /  | | I will solve
  USNail: 14 Westdale RD  Holbrook, MA 02343 /   | /| / / /___| | any problem
 ICBMnet: 42 deg 1 min N, 71 deg 0 min W    /    |/ |/ /_//_____| for you.
Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.misc
From: jhk6@cunixb.cc.columbia.edu (John H Kim)
Subject: Re: Genres
Reply-To: jhk6@cunixb.cc.columbia.edu (John H Kim)
Organization: Columbia University
Date: Wed, 29 Jul 1992 21:25:20 GMT

doug@abby.chem.ucla.edu writes:
>Like hell artificial muscle fibers couldn't be used to drive a tank tread.
>It is (and has been for many years) possible to convert linear motion
>to rotary motion with no loss.  How do these artificial muscle fibers help
>the mech?

	First of all, this 'engine efficiency' thing is not neccessarily 
all that important. If you have enough power to make a mech walk or to 
drive a tank to the material limits of its aerodynamics and tracks - then 
neither has an advantage, really. 

	Disregarding that - let's say we have a muscle fiber that when 
given an electrical signal contracts to 95% of its length over 0.2 seconds 
with a very large force. Further, let us postulate that it is *much* more 
efficient to make these in larger and longer bundles. 

	Now, we can use these fibers to drive a rotary motion - but recall 
that they will get a maximum of 300 rpm's, which is pretty pitiful. The 
engineering problems of the rest of it I leave to someone else to work 
through exactly. 
	Remember that having alot of pistons is inefficient, and that 
you have to have alot of space since the actual length of contraction 
is quite small (a 2 meter piston will only contract by 10 centimeters). 

	Mechs have a relatively large distance (the length of limbs) over 
which to lay long fibers, and only a few contractions produces a long 
step. 
	btw, can we tone down the harsh langauge in some of these 
discussions? I don't think that opening statement of "Like Hell" and 
"Bullshit" (from another post) are much conducive to productive 
conversation.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
John Kim                    | "All the world will be your enemy, Prince with
jhk6@cunixb.cc.columbia.edu | a Thousand Enemies. And when they catch you, 
Columbia University         | they will kill you."         - Watership Down
Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.misc
From: nigel@rs733.GSFC.NASA.Gov
Subject: Re: Military Mechs? Hexapod
Organization: Goddard Space Flight Center, Greenbelt, Md, USA
	<RATINOX.92Jul29101842@splinter.coe.northeastern.edu>
	<Bs5yHM.EK0@acsu.buffalo.edu>
	<RATINOX.92Jul29172617@splinter.coe.northeastern.edu>
Date: Thu, 30 Jul 1992 17:18:16 GMT

In article <RATINOX.92Jul29172617@splinter.coe.northeastern.edu> ratinox@splinter.coe.northeastern.edu (Richard Pieri/Stainless Steel Rat) writes:

   >>>>>(Ninstar
   >>>>> Cybermage - Back Again from the Mists!) said:

   >A walking tank has the benefit of being able to step over obstacles that
   >would stop a tracked tank.

   NC> Few though those may be.  Keep in mind that if a tank doesn't go over
   NC> it it goes THROUGH it.

   Show me a tracked tank that can get past a trench cut into the ground like
   this:

	 _______________
			|
			|       <---Tank
			|     ____________
			|    |
			|____|

   where the deep section is just wide and deep enough to really mess up a
   tracked tank. Pretty standard desert anti-tank setup. The hexapod can
   (hopefully) just step over it, two legs at a time so it's never unbalanced.

   --Rat

Easy...a tank with a dozer blade.  The rest of the platoon shoots
anything appearing above the berm and you bury the infantry hiding in
the trench...sound familiar?

Yes, there are constructs (and grades) that tanks can't traverse.
Then you need to do something else.  Likewise the ground pressure from
a mech or even a hexapod will render it useless in some terrain and
obstructions...something no one has mentioned...tanks rip up roads
quickly and if you think that tanks rip up roads watch what happens
when you run a 40+ ton object suspended by stilts on the same road.

How do you get mechs through a friendly city without making the roads
useless?  With every step you leave pot holes behind...I guess you do
what we do today...put them on vehicles.

Nigel

--
Nigel Tzeng
.sig under construction
From: PCHEM14@Zeus.unomaha.edu (FALL88)
Subject: Re: Champions
Organization: University of Nebraska at Omaha
Date: Wed, 29 Jul 1992 06:12:32 GMT
X-News-Reader: VMS NEWS 1.11

jhk6@cunixb.cc.columbia.edu (John H Kim) writes:
>Bullshit.  That is what the explanation of INT in the rules states;
>however, since as noted there are many INT-based skills which should
>be based on how smart you are, and buying up your INT flat-out makes
>you better at them, INT must represent how smart you are.

The *rules* states that INT is: the ability to take in and process data
quickly.  It goes on  to state that it doesn't reflect knowledge, and that
a high INT person  can be very ignorant, while a brilliant scientist might
have low INT (high skill roll, from lots of work, I suppose).

INT, therefore, lets you think  quicker, but not necessairly correctly.  So
a high INT doesn't make  you smart.  In fact, if  you're stupid and have a
high INT, you'll just think of stupid things faster.  What an advantage.  :)

As to the cost of INT vs. INT skill rolls, it  is true that INT  is a better
value.   However, consider this: most games either have human characteristic
maxima or require a reason for  high INT.  It's not for everyone.  By symmetry,
you will notice that if the optional uses of combat skill levels are not used,
there is little reason for  a all combat level (8 pts) when you can  get +3
DEX, -.3  SPD (net +0 SPD)  for  6 points.  Most  of the characteristics  are
often very 'efficient'.  Should this be changed?  I kinda entertain ideas of
it  sometimes, but only when I'm in  a highly mechanical/game-philosophical
mood.


apearlma@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu writes:
>          Also, even if you are in a full blown game, it is much easier to
> justify being good at science skills than it is to be a super-genius.  I
> find it very difficult to play a super-genius without playing a couple of
> tricks.  Works well as GM, not so well as a player.

To date, I've not met a *single* person playing a character of INT over maxima
in  any game  that impressed me that I walked away thinking "his character is
clearly on a  different level than mine."  My experience is that players of
super-INT characters, in an effort  to  prove thier intelligence, usually only
manage to alienate  the other players/characters and draw out the game  with
useless rhetoric that doesn't remind me of roleplaying that allows for growth
of the character.  Maybe this will change, but that's the way it  is for me
now.  As a GM, I absolutely disallow INT and COM over 25 as these get so hard
to conceive.  Most GMs, on the other hand, don't make this limitation.

-james
From: olds@mentor.cc.purdue.edu (Angel)
Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.misc
Subject: SRun Re: Questions Galore (ok, only 4)
Date: 23 Jul 92 15:32:38 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: Purdue University Computing Center


>>>>>[	I know this is probably the wrong thing to do, but Minotaur and
	I have been talking a lot lately and we have come up with a 
	few more questions.....I know, what's new, right?  Well, bare
	with us....it could be fun!  ;-)  ]<<<<< 
					Quick Silver, the Indian Princess

>>>>>[	More and More questions!!!! Shall they ever stop?!?!?!! I hope
     	 not....]<<<<<
					Minotaur, Half Man Half Bull

1. Area of Effect. Suppose you were to throw a beneficial area of effect
   spell and then someone enterd the area, does it affect them then? I can
   see how it would since the spell is still in effect, like those entering
   the area of a Mob * Spell.  But then again, I can also see how the spell
   permeates those who are there bestowing its effect, then simple recedes 
   into a sustained nature. Kinda like, gee ya missed the Pennies From
   Heaven concept...

2. Do you folks think you could devise a Treat * Wounds Area of Effect Spell?
   I realize that it would go up in staging for the area, but what other 
   effects would it have on the design? i.e. Is treat wound spells Touch
   Required ? (scrathc that, grimoire says that touch is required, so, do you
   think that there is any other way to do this?)  I have been thinking of
   expanding the Treat Spells used by a snake shaman adept who is getting tired 
   of throwing 5/6 treat Moderate Wounds who would rather throw it just once. 
   Gee, would this be abusive in your humble opinions?

3. Okay Mark Baxter's post has gotten me thinking. Could a character, with
   the right cyberware, shift his important info to Headware Memory, or 
   perhaps have it there and use maybe a modified Datalock to stop them
   from accessing it until the proper time? What I am philosophizing about
   is the potential to negate, in special circumstances, the overwhelming
   power of the Mind Probe. Think about it, a bit of Headware memory, with
   a programmable Data lock. ie Release the following information on
   this date and this time... 

4.  How do you work totemic modifiers, as in, do you allow people to center
    to get rid of totemic modifiers?  For example, can the snake shaman get
    rid of her -1 die loss for casting spells during combat?  Or can you
    get rid of +1 or +2 modifiers to do anything in combat for other
    totems....basically, have you allowed things to affect totemic modifiers?

	Ideas?  Thanks in advance....
					****** email ******
					* Quick Silver, the Indian Princess
					* olds@mentor.cc.purdue.edu
						- or -
				        * Minotaur, Half Man Half Bull
					* mancinis@mentor.cc.purdue.edu
Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.misc
From: bdianton@cs.ulowell.edu (Brian Diantonio)
Subject: NEWGROUP II
Originator: bdianton@cs.ulowell.edu
Organization: University of Massachusetts at Lowell Computer Science
Date: Tue, 21 Jul 1992 15:26:17 GMT


NO THE NEW NEWSGROUP ISN'T GOING TO BE LIKE THAT FIRST OF ALL I 
WILL LIST THE DIFFERENCES.
[a] it will not be a place to list petty differences of the
Stone skin spell.  I will appreciate your DM's right
to modify whatever rules he sees fit.
[b] the Beasitary, Magic spells, and etc. will be in a read able
form so anyone that wants to can contribute his own piece
via E-Mail to that item's caretake (me for now) or posting
APPEND: 's.
[c] I haven't seen any ads for DM'S or players of certains area's
in any of the rec.games.frp.(whatever)'s.  Have you?

I think my newgroup idea would COMPLIMENT those other groups
very nicely.
Anyone else agree with me on that?
-Mark DiAntonio
bdianton@cs.ulowell.edu

Keywords:
From: com@spacsun.rice.edu (Chris Miller)
Subject: GURPS Roleplayer question
Keywords: GURPS 800
Reply-To: com@spacsun.rice.edu (Chris Miller)
Organization: Dept. of Space Physics, Rice University, Houston TX
Date: Fri, 24 Jul 1992 19:16:52 GMT

A while back I asked about an 800 number I could call to subscribe
to GURPS Roleplayer Magazine.  I've since lost that number.  Could
someone please email that number to me again.

-- 
Christopher Owen Miller | Until I see, I won't believe, show it to me,
com@spacsun.rice.edu    | I want to see your halo.    --alt.rct
Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.misc
From: sos@oz.plymouth.edu (Steffan O'Sullivan)
Subject: GURPS B&B Stats (was Re: GURPS: Alien races -- Too powerful?)
Keywords: GURPS Aliens Space
Reply-To: sos@oz.plymouth.edu (Steffan O'Sullivan)
Organization: Plymouth State College - Plymouth, N.H.
	    <15av31INNq0j@darkstar.UCSC.EDU>
Date: Fri, 31 Jul 92 13:04:51 GMT

jdale@cats.ucsc.edu (Jonathan Dale) writes:
>
[quoting me on rabbits in Bunnies & Burrows having all stats at 10 and
humans being given vastly different stats.]

>How is this superior to making all the characters play "bunnies" worth -60
>points (guessing wildly) and then giving players only 40 points to make
>characters?  Ie, using racial rules but changing the number of points so
>they have the equivalent of 100 points instead of really 100 points.  This
>maintains compatibility.

GURPS does not work well at non-human extremes, which I said in my last
post.  Now if you want to play a character with a ST 2, that's fine.
If you really want to (A) never make a ST roll the whole game, (B)
never damage anything the whole game, and (C) not be able to lift
diddly, that's fine.  I prefer to game where I have a chance of doing
something, myself.

Likewise, if you want to play a character with a split HT of 14/2, go
ahead.  I'm more comfortable with more hit points.

And most importantly, the average rabbit has IQ 5, and the max is IQ 6
by human standards.  (But here is where GURPS breaks down: these
numbers are totally meaningless.)  I prefer to play in games where at
least *some* of the characters have better than 10% chance of making an
IQ roll.

>Increased ST only exists (as I see it) because the costs for ST are scaled
>wrong.  ST is too expensive for its value.  Increased ST is much, much too
>cheap, so giants and such become possible.  But they have a ridiculous
>price-break for ST.  Why not make ST cheaper for everyone?  This also solves 
>the ridiculous costs in Supers, where costs increase to 17, then magically
>drop a huge amount and continue dropping.  

I agree somewhat with this.  That is, I agree that ST should be the same
cost for every character in every genre, and that it's slightly
overpriced.  (I also think that DX and IQ are too cheap at 13+, though.)

I proposed on the SJG BBS that the cost of ST be fixed for all characters
- humans, ogres, giants, supers.  I forget the exact numbers I proposed,
but something like:

ST 10-20:  10 points/level  (max human range)
ST 21-40:  5 points/level   (max non-human PC range for most games)
ST 41+:  1 point/level      (for supers and games with PC giants, etc.)

>As an end-note, I should say that while I don't think the GURPS (or any other
>systems) rules are perfect, I find they work well enough.  I do most of my
>GMing by the seat-of-the-pants anyway.  I don't think I've ever looked anything
>up during a combat.  I make it all up and do it fast.  My priority is keeping
>the game going.  Rules nitpicks waste more time than fixes are worth, IMHO.

Our gaming styles match very well!

-- 
  - Steffan O'Sullivan		         sos@oz.plymouth.edu
Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.misc
From: dv52151@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (Axly)
Subject: Re: SR: Watch Out! The Decker's got a gun!
Organization: University of Illinois at Urbana
Date: Wed, 22 Jul 1992 15:18:35 GMT
Keywords: shadowrun, character, the library, sheen

cdr@kpc.com (Carl Rigney) writes:

>Actually, even better than giving a decker a gun is making him a physical
>adept; it's especially a help for running naked in the matrix.
>So by way of example here's Sheen, the decker Mary Kuhner created for The
>Library.  (Sheen was designed using the draft adept rules and sum to 10
>and has some experience; your mileage may vary.)

Hmm. I am wondering if Magical speed increase would still work in the
Matrix. Something says to me that it wouldn't. I find Physical Adepts
with cyberware bothersome simply because I can't reasonably decide
whether the person who designed it wants a physical adept or just
wants a cheap boost to his reaction speed. One way I have thought
of keeping PA's from packing in that whole essence point of 
cyberware is to require them to design their PA with all 6 magic points.
They can buy cyberware after that, but it is a random roll to see
just what power gets cut out by the invasion of tech into their bodies.
It doesn't make sense that the tech intrusion always gets rid of something
the PA didn't mind losing,but never effects something like his/her reaction
increase.

Axly
Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.misc
Subject: Re: SRUN: Upper limit on armor spells?
From: ward1@husc8.harvard.edu (Lester Ward)
Date: 27 Jul 92 14:21:43 GMT

rhunt@med.unc.edu (Rick Hunt) writes:

>GM was not amused by the prospect of me having 10 points of dermal armor
>permanantly locked on.  He said that there _must_ be some kind of upper
>limit on these things but we couldn't find anything.  Are we missing
>something?

Nope.  This is why GM's should nuke locks at every opportunity.

>Rick Hunt "Touch"
>rhunt@med.unc.edu

Wordman
Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.misc
From: macgyver@pike.cis.ohio-state.edu (MacGyver)
Subject: Re: Mythus of GDW
Organization: The Ohio State University, Department of Computer and Information Science
Date: Fri, 31 Jul 1992 12:41:30 GMT

In article <1992Jul30.113823.1@wharton.upenn.edu> millerl@wharton.upenn.edu writes:
>Do you mean that _Mythus_ is shipping or that _Mythus Magick_ is
>shipping? One has been out for at least a week, the other I haven't
>seen.

Mythus Magick, it just came back from the printers is what I was told.

-- 
Wilson MacGyver                      |"I do like a road, because you can be 
Internet:macgyver@cis.ohio-state.edu | always wondering what is at the end
=====================================| of it."
Disclaimer:All opinions are mine only|=======================================