HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: bq434@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Michael A. Chance)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: Rattan Swords - Looks great, less tape!
Date: 30 Dec 1992 19:57:46 GMT
Organization: Case Western Reserve University, Cleveland, OH (USA)
Reply-To: bq434@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Michael A. Chance)
NNTP-Posting-Host: hela.ins.cwru.edu


In a previous article, sinister@ac.dal.ca () says:

>In article <graham.725433332@eqsun5>, graham@Civil.Concordia.CA (Graham to my friends) writes:
>> ........................ I would say that probably the
>> original impetus was to make the swords -silver- with duct tape and thereby
>> look like metal (if you squint real hard in the sunset with the sun shining
>> into your eyes you might be fooled.) ..........
>
>	Well, if it once was, it isn't now.   I thought I had a great idea, 
>shortly after I made my first stick.  I discovered ALUMINUM duct-tape...  
>Structural integrity AND great-looking sword, too!
>	Except that it seems to fall under the provision of "offensive steel"
>within the eric.  So much for looks.... back to the well chewed, drab grey
>duct tape we all know and love.

I have seen, on rare occassions, *silver* (not gun metal gray) cloth
duct tape.  It is not metallic, merely metallic-looking.  However, I've
not been able to track down a source for it, or even a manufacturer's
name and/or address.  If anyone knows where such might be had, please
post!

Mikjal Annarbjorn
-- 
Michael A. Chance          St. Louis, Missouri, USA    "At play in the fields
Work: mc3078@sw1sta.sbc.com                             of St. Vidicon"
Play: bq434@cleveland.freenet.edu
      mchance@nyx.cs.du.edu
From: Joe.Bethancourt@f4229.n124.z1.fidonet.org (Joe Bethancourt)
Sender: FredGate@ocitor.fidonet
From: amanda@wam.umd.edu (Me again)
Subject: Re: Period Calendar Wanted
Organization: University of Maryland, College Park
Date: Thu, 31 Dec 1992 03:42:11 GMT

Dave.Aronson@p11.f120.n109.z1.fidonet.org (Dave Aronson) writes:
>jww@evolving.com (John W. Woolley) writeth:

> JWW> Remember that, no matter the time of year, there are twelve equal hours
> JWW> of day and twelve of night; so that in winter day hours are much shorter
> JWW> than night hours.

>3. Does anyone out there know of any self-adjusting timepieces that would take
>this stretching and shrinking of hours into account?

Milord,

It seemeth to me that i have heard tales of some such masterpieces of 
the clockmaker's art built in none other place than Cathay, or, as it may
be said, China, near unto the end of our Knowne Period (or mayhap even
beyond, in such time as would be unknown to us).

Gentles, I most devoutly hope that my coarse and unschooled speech has not 
overly disturbed you.

Written by me this 5th day after the feast of Christmas,
Amanda of Markland
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: Heraldic questions... 
From: bloodthorn@sloth.equinox.gen.nz (Jennifer Geard)
Date: Thu, 24 Dec 92 01:49:26 GMT
Distribution: world
Organization: Lethargy Inc.

Greetings, Gentles;  Tadhg wrote:

  > One of Laurel's oft-repeated maxims is "We follow the general practices,
  > not the exceptions", and red bends and chiefs on blue fields were
  > exceptions, not general practices; considered in the context of western
  > European heraldry as a whole, regional practices such as green mounts on
  > blue fields, however much they may have been the height of fashion in
  > Hungary or wherever, were still exceptions rather than general practices.

Good my lord, I have not followed the heraldic discussion too closely, so if 
I should repeat what has been said please pass softly on. 

I think I have found where I take leave of you in this blazoning world, and 
it is indeed early in our wanderings.  "[T]he context of western European 
heraldry" is the problem.  Although I was aware that the illustrious College 
of Arms was Anglo-Francocentric I was not previously aware that a practice 
which was common in the area of Hungary and which spread so far as northern 
Italy and Germany would be dismissed as regional and exceptional (I refer, of 
course, to the vexed and repetitive issue of green mounts or bases:  may I 
recommend to you the city armory of Venice and Heidelberg as examples).  

Is the problem that the majority of heralds do not feel familiar enough with 
the range of continental heraldry to be able to offer informed comment on 
such submissions?  I have a certain amount of sympathy.  I do not, however, 
see why a perfectly valid German or other heraldic device with plenty of 
evidence to support the claim that it is period in style and execution should 
be rejected by the College because it doesn't speak heraldic French.  Would 
you please explain to me the reasoning behind this?


  > I have made a modest contribution in that directio with my "Ten Word
  > Blazon Test", the rationale for which is "if they did it a lot, they had a
  > term for it; if it takes you a lot of words to describe it, then they
  > didn't have a term for it, and so they probably didn't do it a lot, and so
  > it probably isn't good style".

I quite like the test, but I run into the same problem:  German heralds had 
single words to describe heraldry which we are forced to explain in complex 
phrases.  Since much of our herald-speak is a learned variant of French, 
could we not throw in elements of a learned variant of German (etc) to expand 
the range of options available to those who wish to register arms befitting 
their place and time? 

Pagan le Chaunster
Genuinely curious.
________________________________________________________________________
Jennifer Geard                         bloodthorn@sloth.equinox.gen.nz
Christchurch, New Zealand
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
From: nusbache@epas.utoronto.ca (Aryk Nusbacher)
Subject: Re: Fighting in crown: a thought
Organization: University of Toronto - Office of the Provost
Date: Thu, 31 Dec 1992 00:33:00 GMT

In article <1992Dec30.002010.19457@ips.oz.au> colin@ips.oz.au (Colin Yuile) writes:

>Allowing non fighters to become royalty won't stop dumb decisions,

True.

>but should allow better informed decisions in non fighting areas.

Why?  Is there a difference in species between those who swing sticks
and those who don't? Are top-class fighters generally uninformed about
SCA life outside the lists?  Sure, there are real sword-jocks who are
out of touch with the rest of the SCA, but there's surely a comparable
risk of over-focussing with _anybody_.  For every geek who can't see
past the end of his stick, there is a geek who can't see past a
spinning wheel, a sewing machine, or a copy of Papworth.

>The majority of monarchs would still be fighters, with the occasional
>non fighting couple adding a bit of variety. I think fighting for
>a couple would be extremely chivalric and a nice change from 
>Thung Superjock fighting for his current girlfriend Flossy.

Extremely chivalric?  Do you mean based on the historical reality of
knights in the Middle Ages entering a tournament list on behalf of a
couple? Or perhaps those great chivalric romances about knights
championing couples?

Thung Superjock fighting for Flossy _is_ the stuff of chivalric
legend.  It's what mediaeval knights understood chivalry to be.
Giving them amusing names doesn't affect that.

Aryk Nusbacher
From: lcatlett@carson.u.washington.edu (Lynn Catlett)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: Fighting for Crown....A Question.
Date: 28 Dec 1992 22:50:13 GMT
Organization: University of Washington, Seattle
NNTP-Posting-Host: carson.u.washington.edu

>Mudanely, I know a gentleman who holds a 3rd dan in Tae Kwon Do, and
>spars (very effectively) from his wheelchair.
>	Mark Cochran 		Lord Edward Tremaine

Yup!  I used to know a man who'd had polio as a child
and therefore operated with a crutch/brace assembly
but who had some advanced esoteric experience in one
of the bare-hands martial arts.  I considered the stories
about him to be so much urban folklore until he dealt
calmly--almost casually--with an attempted mugging (we
being the muggees) in NYC one dark night...  
Inspiring!  (I remembered to inspire after it was over!)
Lin Yin Yo
  living in the past
  no, the other past
 
From: Tim@f4229.n124.z1.fidonet.org (Tim)
Sender: FredGate@ocitor.fidonet
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Fighting in crown:a thought
Date: Thu, 24 Dec 1992 18:50:44

In a message to All, Colin Yuile wrote:
 CY> Reply-To: colin@ips.oz.au (Colin Yuile)

 CY> nusbache@epas.utoronto.ca (Aryk Nusbacher) writes:
 >Why on earth would you want to open the possibility of becoming SCA
 >royalty to non-fighting couples?

 CY> Why not? There are many people who would make great monarchs
 CY> but either don't fight or are not good fighters.

    I hear a lot of people say this but I see no proof offered that the 

    persons speaking have any extraordinary expertise in distinguishing 

    "people who would make great monarchs" from "people who would make 

    crappy monarchs". Having seen serious surprises both ways once 

    the brass hits the head, I unwilling to lay any money on that 

    particular issue one way or another.

 CY> Being able
 CY> to pound people harder than anyone else does not guarantee
 CY> any other skills. Would you have Mike Tyson for president?
 CY> (Yes! say the jocks :-) )

    I suggest that Mike Tyson (or Muhammad Ali, for that matter) might not 

    have done any worse a job than any President I can think of since 

    Coolidge.

    Let's go whole hog and require an MBA and prior management experience 

    to enter Crown...
 * Origin: Herald's Point * Steppes/Ansteorra * 214-699-0057 (1:124/4229)
From: Tim@f4229.n124.z1.fidonet.org (Tim)
Sender: FredGate@ocitor.fidonet
From: bnostran@lynx.dac.northeastern.edu (Solveig Throndardottir)
Subject: Searching for TUX
Organization: Northeastern University, Boston, MA. 02115, USA
Date: Thu, 24 Dec 1992 19:47:04 GMT

Good Gentles!

I urgently need the snail mail address for Mistress Tux.  I also
need snail mail addresses for Cat, Lord Fairfax and Alfgar.  Please
reply via email rather than by posting to the newsgroup.  Thankyou 
very much and please pardon this intrusion.

					Your Humble Servant
					Solveig Throndardottir
					Totally Ignorant

Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
From: SAUNDRSG@qucdn.queensu.ca (Graydon)
Subject: nicknames with nasty implications
Organization: The Internet
Date: Mon, 21 Dec 1992 17:00:00 GMT

Lothar, I went through a book on middle english nicknames while I was
toying with actually creating a persona as one of the Black Prince's
archers.

Now, I didn't do stats, but about a quarter of the nicknames recorded
are to some degree obscene, and another quarter uncomplimentary.

I think there has been a sensibility shift; it looks a lot like a
person from common stock in 1300's England really didn't *mind* being
called 'Squinty'.  I am very doubtful that what an Icelander minded
is easy to understand; reading Sagas to the point of immersion lets
through little glimmers of a *very* different worldview.

Brennu Njal's wife stayed in the burning house, telling the people
who urged her to leave (can't remember who they were) that 'Young
I was married to Njal'.  This was not regarded as a foolish act;
I'm not really competent to describe what it *was* regarded as.
There is some scholarly consensus that at least the depicted in
the Sagas world view includes really heavy doses of an idea that
life is art, and examples of people doing things that are good
art, rather than saving their lives.  *Very* hard to understand.

Graydon
From: Tim@f4229.n124.z1.fidonet.org (Tim)
Sender: FredGate@ocitor.fidonet
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: Non fighting royalty
Date: Sat, 02 Jan 1993 22:36:27

    Dur wrote:

 BD> Something about the phrases "I beg a boon", and "If it is a right and
 BD> proper thing, and within my power, then ye shall have it" is an great
 BD> way to go about enacting business in a monarchy...

    Actually, the phrase "Your Majesty, we need a command decision here..."
    works as well as anything I've ever tried.


 * Origin: Herald's Point * Steppes/Ansteorra * 214-699-0057 (1:124/4229)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: Heraldic questions... 
From: hairy@sloth.equinox.gen.nz (Phil Anderson)
Date: Fri, 01 Jan 93 04:26:24 GMT
Distribution: world
Organization: Lethargy Inc.


In article <725737046.F00002@ocitor.fidonet> 
Tim@f4229.n124.z1.fidonet.org writes:

  >     Non sequitur. To quote Laurel, "We follow the general practices, not
  >     the exceptions." You persist in asserting that any practice is of equal
  >     value to any other practice. Not so. Some practices are crucial, others
  >     are eccentric; a minority of 49% is still a minority.

Good sir, do you mean to imply that anything which occurs in a 
minority of cases is an exception which may be safely dismissed as 
irrelevant. If not, could you give me some idea of where the boundary 
falls. On the other hand, if so, are there any charges which _do_ 
appear in a majority of arms?

Edward the Discalceate
Southron Gaard, Caid

 ----------------------------------------------
 Phil Anderson  ***  hairy@sloth.equinox.gen.nz
 ----------------------------------------------
       "No-one is equal to anyone else!"
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
From: nusbache@epas.utoronto.ca (Aryk Nusbacher)
Subject: Re: Re-joining the SCA as a Bandit
Organization: University of Toronto - Office of the Provost
Date: Mon, 21 Dec 1992 22:52:45 GMT

In article <1992Dec21.211633.13471@nas.nasa.gov> cassie@worf.nas.nasa.gov (Cassandra L. Baldassano) writes:

>As I have often been told, it's not where you live but who you play
>with. In the Mists it easy to live in one barony or province and
>play with another.

...

>So pick a group that you wish to be associated with,
>and go to the events you want to go to. Most baronial events in
>our area are well intended by members of other groups.

Goddamn Westies.  Just get on the BART and boot over to the next group.

Sure.

Euriol, there's a lotta wheat between baronies in Calontir.

\8-)

Aryk
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
From: dburgdor@cwis.unomaha.edu (Darryl Burgdorf)
Subject: Re: Non-fighting Royalty
Organization: University of Nebraska at Omaha
Date: Thu, 31 Dec 1992 15:01:10 GMT


Palymar wrote:
 
> It seems to me that a good number of people accept it as fact that
> fighters are not good rulers.  The logic generally goes: The skills
> required to win Crown Tourney are not the same as those needed to
> rule.  Therefore fighters do not make good rulers.  Why would a
> non-fighting couple make better informed decisions in non-fighting
> areas?  More to the point, every fighter has a perspective consort who
> is generally a non-fighter anyway.  
> 
> I am not concern about the prospect of a fighter championing a
> non-fighting couple.  I think it would be a healthy change to the
> system, and at the same time give more people access to the throne.  I
> do not believe that such a change would produce any better rulers.  
> Being a non-fighters does not give you an exclusive insight on how to
> rule a kingdom any more than being a fighter does.


I could not agree more.  My own feeling has *always* been that neither 
fighters nor non-fighters have any inherent chance of being a "better"
ruler.  And even if a ruler *is* bad, as others have previously pointed
out, they really can't do much harm to the Kingdom at large.

I favor allowing non-fighters to become royalty, whether through the
"consort" idea or via other means, simply because it would open up the
throne to ALL those who participate in the SCA.

Given that *no* method of "choosing" royalty is period, I see no reason
to allow only fighters to gain the throne.  Doing so tends to reinforce
the image of the SCA as primarily a "combat" organization, and to downplay
the importance of the many other endeavors in which its members participate.

I'd like to see a system by which someone who excells in *any* given area
has a chance, because of that excellence, to gain the throne.  The consort
idea is not that system, but it's a step in the right direction, I think.

And before anyone steps in with a comment about how non-fighters can already
gain the throne by becoming consort, just let me point out that there are
many couples in which neither individual fights, but in which both are very
good at what they do.  And as a previous writer pointed out, non-fighting
males don't have much chance at becoming consort simply because of the
scarcity of female fighters.

As much as we try to recreate them in the SCA, we are *not* living in the
real Middle Ages.  Since we already choose or rulers in an inherently non-
medieval way, why not allow those rulers to reflect excellence in *any*
SCA endeavor, rather than just in fighting?

	In service,

		Ld Elwyn of Thornbury
From: doconnor@sedona.intel.com (Dennis O'Connor)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: Primitive FireArms
Date: 30 Dec 92 13:16:37
Organization: Intel i960(tm) Architecture
	<DOCONNOR.92Dec30085832@potato.sedona.intel.com>
	<pa124548.579.725741149@utkvm1.utk.edu>
NNTP-Posting-Host: potato.intel.com
In-reply-to: pa124548@utkvm1.utk.edu's message of Wed, 30 Dec 1992 18:45:49 GMT


pa124548@utkvm1.utk.edu (T. Archer) writes:
] In article <> doconnor@sedona.intel.com (Dennis O'Connor) writes:
] >Recurves are period. They were the usual bow used by the
] >Turks and the Mongols, as well as other peoples.
]
] Could you document that?  The last time the issue was raised, one of the "
] purists" on this forum screamed bloody blue murder because to him, an "
] authenticist,"  a line of archers with recurves didn't "look mideveal."

Of course I can document it. Find any collection of paintings of Mongols
from the period, and every other Mongol will have at least one obvious
recurve bow with them. There are some archeological remains too. Recurves
were all Mongols ever used, as near as I can tell. Longbows just weren't
practical as horseback-weilded weapons, apparently.

Now it may be a little weird for, say, an English persona to have
one, but Mongols did fight alongside some of the Crusaders (actually,
a group of crusaders joined the Mongols in an attack on a Moslem force )
in the first half of the 13th Century. So Mongolian recurved bows
could have made their way back to England and France.

Mongol recurves were short little things, but some were said to
shoot out to 700 yards !
--
Dennis O'Connor			doconnor@sedona.intel.com
From: whheydt@pbhya.PacBell.COM (Wilson Heydt)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: Midrealm Crown Policy
Date: 28 Dec 92 20:23:31 GMT
Reply-To: whheydt@PacBell.COM (Wilson Heydt)
Organization: Pacific * Bell, San Ramon, CA

In article <1hnjcfINNcm4@usenet.INS.CWRU.Edu> bq434@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Michael A. Chance) writes:

[...a great deal of thoughtful material, ending with...]

>The Midrealm system eliminates the first 2 groups entirely.  Even so,
>the list for unbelted fighters has been well over 50 for several years now.
>With the number of Chivarly in the Midrealm, the potential size of Crown
>tourney has rivaled that of the Easts actual size for the past few
>years.  If a Crown were to open the list to groups A and B, the size of
>the list would be in the 200-300 range, and take 2 days to fight.

I don't think the conclusion about how long it would take to run the
lists follows.  The West, with mid-90s to low-100s in the Lists,
typically, can do it in about 5 hours using--at most--4 fields.
Recent technique has been a segmented list that combines back together
when the number of people left gets small enough.  (As our Mistress of
lists for details--I don't follow it that closely.)  Even if you *did*
get as many as you speculate (how many would stay in once reminded
that they're expected to reign...?), it could be organized to run in
one day.

>The Midrealm system isn't perfect; no one has said that it is.  But is
>does serve a useful purpose.

I think this is a case where I don't believe in perfection.  I think
there are local optima--and that's about the best one can hope for.
The systems that have evolved--for many reasons--seem to work locally.
They add to the 'local flavor' differences among the Laurel Kingdoms.

	--Hal

        Hal Ravn, Province of the Mists, West Kingdom
        Wilson H. Heydt, Jr.,  Albany, CA 94706,  510/524-8321 (home)
-- 
Hal Heydt                    |    
Analyst, Pacific*Bell        |            You!
510-823-5447                 |    Out of the Gene Pool!
whheydt@pbhya.PacBell.COM    |
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
From: c34657b@saha.hut.fi (Tuomas Viljanen)
Subject: Re: Primitive Firearms
Organization: The Nibelungenlied Incorporated
Date: Fri, 1 Jan 1993 12:09:20 GMT

In article <1hu957INNmam@usenet.INS.CWRU.Edu> cc697@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Eric Oppen) writes:
>
>In a previous article, nusbache@epas.utoronto.ca (Aryk Nusbacher) says:
>
>>In article <1hblskINN283@usenet.INS.CWRU.Edu> cc697@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Eric Oppen) writes:

>As a matter of fact, I don't know why the Hussites lost, or whether they
>met with measurable success...perhaps someone not as
>Central-European-history-challenged (PC! PC!) can help out here.  I do
>remember reading that they did defeat quite a few enemies, and did hold out
>for a while, but I wouldn't bet the rent money on any actual figures.

As I wrote in my previous article (Hussites), after Jan Zizka's death the
Hussites were divided in two: extremist Taborites (Ultraquists) and
more moderate Orphans. The Orphans, which were the larger part, finally
made treaty with the Emperor and Pope, whereas the Taborites fought on to the
bitter end and were finally annihilated in the battle of Czesky Brod.

>One trouble with wagon-fortresses as used by the Hussites and others
>(Notably the Russians and Teutonic Knights, I believe; I'm not posting from
>where my references are) is that they are extremely easy meat for any sort
>of artillery.  They do provide dandy cover against small arms, and against
>cavalry charges.

The Russian Gulyai Gorod ("The Walking City")... Yes, The Russians and the
Teutonic Knights did employ it, as did later the Germans themselves
(Wagenburg or "wagon castle"). They do, indeed provide safety from small arms
fire and cavalry, but they can be overwhelmed with steadfast infantry and
ridiculously easily shot into smithereens by cannon fire.



--++ Tuomas Viljanen                     ++ For a battle like Crecy, you do ++
  ++ Lahderanta 20 A 19                  ++ not need a military genius like ++
  ++ SF-02720 Espoo FINLAND              ++ Edward III. All you need is an  ++
  ++ 358-0-592175 or c34657b@saha.hut.fi ++ idiot like Duke of Alencon.     ++
From: Beth.Appleton@f4229.n124.z1.fidonet.org (Beth Appleton)
Sender: FredGate@ocitor.fidonet
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re-joining the SCA as a Bandit
Date: Sun, 20 Dec 1992 23:52:20

Milord Axel, please post your e-mail address.  I would like to 
 send you some correspondence on the topics you have addressed, but feel 
 that this conversation is not worth the bandwidth to all those who do 
 receive these missives, sometimes through expensive means.
     Gwenllian Cwmystwyth ferch Morfudd
     Steppes, Ansteorra
     Beth.Appleton@f4229.n124.z1.fidonet.org

 * Origin: Herald's Point * Steppes/Ansteorra * 214-699-0057 (1:124/4229)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca