HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: chrisl@spider.wri.com (Chris LaReau)
Subject: Re: Batman The Ride( was: Re: The Vortex)
Keywords: gack, ugh, barf
Organization: Wolfram Research, Inc.
Date: Tue, 15 Sep 1992 07:27:58 GMT

Lawrence Daffner writes:

>  Dunno... mebbe they've done some braking on it since I rode it, but
>I was there on opening weekend, and it was riding fast enough that you
>stayed pushed down into your seat for the entire ride... Not very
>interesting, IMHO. This semtiment was shared by several people I was
>there with... that the line to ride was the most interesting part. I
>just personally prefer to have good neg g's.

Whooo, someone else who agrees with me. I'm not alone. Maybe you like
good Arrow coasters too?

Chris
(an ACE person who doesn't put Batman in his top 10 steel...)

P.S. to Bill Figie:

You are very correct about the American Eagle. It was _very_ good on
press day, with no brakes, no headrests, no horse blinders, and no
ratcheting lap bars. The final helix was a killer. Too bad they had
it ruined by opening day. 

-----------------------
Chris LaReau  chrisl@wri.com  (working for, not speaking for) ...
Wolfram Research Inc. 100 Trade Centre Dr. Champaign IL 61820  (217) 398-0700
"Would it save you a lot of time if I just gave up and went mad now?" - A. Dent
Newsgroups: rec.roller-coaster
From: rhb@ucs.usl.edu (Bird Rendell H.)
Subject: Re: The Vortex
Organization: Univ. of Southwestern La., Lafayette
Date: Fri, 11 Sep 1992 21:22:53 GMT

(Chris LaReau) writes:
>(3) Vortex at Carowinds. 
>    I thought
>    the Carolina Cyclone was a better ride though, and many of the
>    locals I rode with concurred.



***OOOOUUUUCCCCHHHH***


Carowinds is on my list of favorite parks in the country. I gave it
this personal distinct DESPITE the Carolina Cyclone. This was the first
of the cookie-cutter-Arrow-coasters I had ridden. I truly despised
this ride.

#begin Bette_Midler (imitation)

	Ees the Vortex *really* **that** ***bad***?!?!?           Why bother.

#end Bette_Midler (imitation)



Rendell
Newsgroups: rec.roller-coaster
From: chrisl@spider.wri.com (Chris LaReau)
Subject: Re: The Vortex
Organization: Wolfram Research, Inc.
Date: Fri, 11 Sep 1992 18:50:26 GMT

In <1992Sep11.153907.6010@usl.edu> rhb@ucs.usl.edu (Bird Rendell H.) writes:

>How many people out there in net.land have ridden TOGO, Intamin,
>*and/or* B&M stand-up roller coasters?

I think the only one in North America I haven't ridden is the Great America,
CA one.

>I have only ridden two, and both of them were built by B&M. One
>was the Iron Wolf at Great America in Chicago. The other was
>The Vortex at Great America in Santa Clara (California).

>When I rode the one GA-Chicago, I was not terribly impressed.
>Probably that was because I had just gotten off Batman The
>Ride, and ALL OTHER coasters paled in comparison.

Well, I liked Batman and Iron Wolf about equally, but we all know this
story by now.

>Recently, I got a chance to ride The Vortex. I was expecting
>it to be a 'nice' ride. I was completely blown-away. I REALLY
>liked it.

>So, on to my questions:

>a) How do B&M stand-ups compare to other companies stand-ups?
>b) How do these two stand up against each other?

I can't answer (b), but my version of (a) follows.

Here's how I rate the stand-ups I've been on:

(1) Shock Wave (Togo) at Kings Dominion. I know no one else agrees with
    me, but this ride is easily in my steel top ten. I live for hard
    negative G's, and this thing has a ton. It is often said to be a
    near-clone of the KI and CW versions. DON'T YOU BELIEVE IT. The
    helix entrance is much taller and more violent, and the back
    section is completely different (and more violent).

(2) Iron Wolf. Nice and smooth and fun. Quite good in the front, which
    is of course the only place you can see anything since it's a B&M
    4-across monster.

(3) Vortex at Carowinds. A little more spread-out layout than Iron Wolf,
    with an interesting swoop drop which seems to hang at the top. I
    rode this one quite a few times and had a lot of fun. I thought
    the Carolina Cyclone was a better ride though, and many of the
    locals I rode with concurred.

(4) ShockWave (Intamin) at Great Adventure. I liked this ride quite a
    bit except for the annoying steel cages they put around your arms
    so you can't stick them out and get them ripped off by bits of
    passing structure. I tend to not differentiate manufacturer-wise
    between this Intamin standup and the B&M versions since they are
    structurally very similar, which is no great surprise since the
    folks who are now B&M are the people who built it for Intamin as
    I understand it.

(5,6) The Togo rides (King Kobra and Skyrider) at KI and CW respectively.
    Nice rides, I love the extremely open feeling in the front, but
    not a lot of action.

-----------------------
Chris LaReau  chrisl@wri.com  (working for, not speaking for) ...
Wolfram Research Inc. 100 Trade Centre Dr. Champaign IL 61820  (217) 398-0700
"Would it save you a lot of time if I just gave up and went mad now?" - A. Dent
Newsgroups: rec.roller-coaster
From: wjf@controls.ccd.harris.com (Bill Figie)
Subject: Re: Good rides for bad rides
Originator: wjf@rs2
Organization: Harris Controls
Date: Tue, 15 Sep 1992 19:15:21 GMT


I have been reading all the chatter lately about several coasters
that should be good but are really not much fun to ride for some
reason or another.   Like the American Eagle (Beagle) and the Calif.
Grizzly (Teddy).  These coasters should be excellent but for a few
flaws.  With a little love, some minor amounts of money (in
comparison to building a new coaster from scratch), some maintenance,
maybe new cars or some re-profiling, these coasters could be very
good.  I only wish a park could see that.  It is like going out and
buying a Lexus (or something like that) and then not washing it,
leaving it out of the garage, not changing the oil, etc.  Why did you
buy it in the first place.  Why can't these parks see this.  I am
sure they hear the criticism from ACEers through our publications and
in person.  Isn't it to their advantage to have a ride that people
look forward to riding.  

I have a dream, that some day these parks will start to really listen
to ACEers and their good constructive criticism.  I know that many of
you think this will never happen, but in the last 10 or so years of
our club we have enlisted park employees that DO listen to us and
think we do make sense.  We even have members of the park PR
department as card carrying members that contribute articles, provide
special events and treat us nice.  Look at how many parks are giving
ACEers free admission or discounts.  As our numbers grow we will even
have more clout.  We do know what makes a good coaster (or any type
of ride for that matter).  We are the unbiased experts of the field.  

Other coasters that I think could use a little TLC and they might
become good are:

Rolling Thunder - Get rid of those "rumble-go-faster" wheels and
lubricate the track.
Great Am. Scream Machine - SFOG - Too many brakes.
Texas Cyclone - Get ride of those cars
Hersheypark Comet - I hear they have taken out all the oohs and ahhs.
Beast - Get rid of those brakes and bring back the 4-seat cars.

	Bill "there is always room for improvement" Figie

p.s. - I really love the Beast, but it really only runs about half as
good as it could (and did) back when it was new.  Can you imagine how
it would run without those brakes and back with those 4 seat cars. 
WOW!!!!
From: daffner@mentor.cc.purdue.edu (Lawrence Daffner)
Newsgroups: rec.roller-coaster
Subject: Batman The Ride( was: Re: The Vortex)
Keywords: gack, ugh, barf
Date: 14 Sep 92 15:50:39 GMT
Followup-To: poster
Organization: Purdue University Computing Center


  Ex-squeeze me?? All others paled in comparison?? Not even close
buddy..... There's at least two at SFGA that do.. ShockWave and the
Eagle.. Batman is a very boring coaster, IMHO. There's no interesting
G's on that ride at all. Sorry. Get a life then report back.

  -Larry

daffner@mentor.cc.purdue.edu
From: walters@ab.wvnet.edu
Newsgroups: rec.roller-coaster
Subject: Kennywood's Steal Phantom
Summary: no summary
Date: 16 Sep 92 00:20:04 GMT
Reply-To: Walters@AB.WVNET.EDU.
Organization: Alderson-Broaddus College



Have any of you been to Kennywood Park and rode the Steal Phantom.  It is so
awesome I had to ride it over and over.  That first drop was nothing compared
to the second drop.  The ride was excellent.  I am a coaster freak and this one 
really scared me and that is not easy to do.
                                          

                                         Brad Walters
Newsgroups: rec.roller-coaster
From: jhansen@convex.com (James Hansen)
Subject: Re: Socially Unacceptable Ride or Park names .. ??
Date: Wed, 9 Sep 1992 22:59:26 GMT
Organization: Engineering, CONVEX Computer Corp., Richardson, Tx., USA
X-Disclaimer: This message was written by a user at CONVEX Computer
              Corp. The opinions expressed are those of the user and
              not necessarily those of CONVEX.

Wayne A Muth writes:

>Over the years, there may have been some names of rides or names of
>amusement parks which in today's society might definitely be
>non-cool, uncouth, socially unacceptable, or whatever ...

>I herein start the list with "Fairyland Park" [long since
>departed] in Kansas City.  Get the idea ??  Definitely not a real
>good name to attempt to market under today ...

If one is in Europe ... Disneyland.  :-)

--
James B. Hansen                                  {sun,uunet}!convex!jhansen
CONVEX Computer Corporation                              jhansen@convex.com
3000 Waterview Parkway, P. O. Box 833851
Richardson, TX 75083-3851                              Phone: (214)497-4802
Organization: Penn State University
Date: Mon, 14 Sep 1992 09:39:33 EDT
From: <WJS116@psuvm.psu.edu>
Newsgroups: rec.roller-coaster
Subject: New Cedar Point Ride

Cedar Point will begin building the highest, fastest, wettest
flume ride in the world, later this month.  The ride will
be called Snake River Falls.  It will take a 20 passenger
boat to the top of an 80 foot hill dropping them at a 50
degree angle at 40 MPH.  It will share the title of tallest
flume ride with a similar ride being built at Dorney Park
in Allentown, PA.  The ride will be built by Arrow Dynamics.
BTW:  If anyone needs any Cedar Point info, leave me e-mail.
From: rhb@ucs.usl.edu (Bird Rendell H.)
Newsgroups: rec.roller-coaster
Subject: Re: Re. Carolina Cyclone [was 'Vortex'] ..
Date: 14 Sep 92 18:30:46 GMT
Organization: Univ. of Southwestern La., Lafayette

(Wayne A Muth) writes:
>  Carowinds -- steadfast refusal to run more than
>  one train at a time on the wooden racing coaster.  They must
>  be trying to make that coaster LAST FOREVER.


Do you mean one train per side at a time?   Or one train on one side,
and then one train on the other side?


Well, when I rode Thunder Road back in '87, it was so good it almost 
made me (thankfully) forget the Carolina Cyclone.



Rendell
From: wjf@controls.ccd.harris.com (Bill Figie)
Newsgroups: rec.roller-coaster
Subject: Re: Betrand's Island
Keywords: Coaster name
Date: 8 Sep 92 12:11:53 GMT
Organization: Harris Controls
Originator: wjf@rs2


Scot,

Tom is right about the movie.  It is called Purple Rose of Cairo and 
stared Woody Allen and Mia Farrow.  Unfortunately, no footage of the
coaster in operation.  Some scenes take place around the coaster and
on the station.  (As a siode comment - I contacted Ray Ueberroth
about my Coasters In Movie data base.  He said he wanted me to make
several small changes to cut the size down by a page.  He had
forgotten about it but wants to publish it.  I spent the weekend
working on it and I will be sending it to him this week.  I hope he
doesn't put it back in the corner again and forget about it, but
prints it like he said he was going to at the last convention.

As far as the Wildcat at Bertrand Island, I don't think it is
standing anymore.  If I remember correctly it is not on the Standing
But Not Operating list (SBNO).  I think it bit the dust several years
ago.  I think the park closed over 8 years ago.  I remember on one of
my coaster trips back in the early 1980's (probably 82 or 83) going
to the park and finding it closed.  The coaster was having some
maintenance done on it.  They had the chain removed.  It looked old
but a pretty good ride.  I think the next year was the last year for
the park.  The Purple Rose of Cairo was released in 1985 so I think
this is the last year for the park and coaster.  Woody Allen has a
way with coasters and filming at parks that are closed or about to
be.  I think he had another movie that showed a corner of the
Rockaway Coaster just before the park was closed down and in Annie
Hall he shows a shot of the Thunderbolt at Coney Island plus some
shots inside the house built under the coaster.

	Bill "keep Woody away from any more woodies" Figie
From: cf170@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Kevin R. Russell)
Newsgroups: rec.roller-coaster
Subject: Re: The Vortex
Date: 11 Sep 1992 22:59:49 GMT
Organization: Case Western Reserve University, Cleveland, OH (USA)
Reply-To: cf170@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Kevin R. Russell)
NNTP-Posting-Host: slc4.ins.cwru.edu


In a previous article, rhb@ucs.usl.edu (Bird Rendell H.) says:

>
>How many people out there in net.land have ridden TOGO, Intamin,
>*and/or* B&M stand-up roller coasters?
>
>I have only ridden two, and both of them were built by B&M. One
>was the Iron Wolf at Great America in Chicago. The other was
>The Vortex at Great America in Santa Clara (California).
>
>When I rode the one GA-Chicago, I was not terribly impressed.
>Probably that was because I had just gotten off Batman The
>Ride, and ALL OTHER coasters paled in comparison.
>
>Recently, I got a chance to ride The Vortex. I was expecting
>it to be a 'nice' ride. I was completely blown-away. I REALLY
>liked it.
>
>So, on to my questions:
>
>a) How do B&M stand-ups compare to other companies stand-ups?
>b) How do these two stand up against each other?
>
>
>Rendell
>

I have not ridden an B&M stand up, but I have done a Togo (Canada's 
Wonderland) and the Intamin (SFGAd) since the B&M did the Intamin ride
in the days before they were B&M I'd guess it is similar.

I liked the togo better because it is only two passengers wide.  The sight
lines are superior.  Also, their flat helix is kind of neat.

The togo also seemed smoother, although since the Intamin had been moved from 
SFMM, it probably isn't a fair comparison.

The other problem with the Togo was their idea of trim in the block point
I rode with only one train on the track, so there was no need to stop at the
block.  The brakes brought you to a complete stop, then brought you into
the station.  I don't know if this is typical, as this is the only Togo
standup I have seen.  

That's my story and I'm sticking to it.
-- 
Kevin Russell 	
				"Read my lips, no more inflammatory messages"
				me
Newsgroups: rec.roller-coaster
From: rhb@ucs.usl.edu (Bird Rendell H.)
Subject: American Eagle (was Re: Batman The Ride
Keywords: gack, ugh, barf
Organization: Univ. of Southwestern La., Lafayette
Date: Tue, 15 Sep 1992 15:02:35 GMT

(Tom Maglione) writes:
>IMHO, there is at least one wooden coaster
>worse than A.E.,[The American Eagle]  namely, 
>the Grizzly in Santa Clara. 


Actually, I am embarrassed to admit this, but I didn't *loathe* the Grizzly.

I realized right off that it wasn't going to be much of a coaster, but
I had heard about the ACErs who rode it with bags over their heads, &etc,
so I was set for a deep disappointment.

It was a regular family coaster.


When I got off the Grizzly, I started making plans of where things could
be changed to improve the ride. When I got off the American Eagle, the
only thing I wanted to do was take a bulldozer to the entire structure!!

...and not just *hire* the bulldozing crew; I wanted to *drive* the lead
bulldozer!!


Rendell
Newsgroups: rec.roller-coaster
From: luff@camelot.bradley.edu (Matthew Rector)
Subject: Re: KI's new-for-93 suspended coaster
Organization: Bradley University
Distribution: usa
Date: 15 Sep 92 23:16:03 GMT

In <192vvjINNrai@usenet.INS.CWRU.Edu> aq009@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (David A. Johnson) writes:


>In a previous article, geoff@pmafire.inel.gov (Geoff Allen) says:

>>I've heard that the name is supposed to be Star Trek -- The Ride.

>Geez, I hope not!  That'd be one of the worst names I could ever think of. 

I agree wholeheartedly.  That would make them sound like they are
just following Six Flags.

>wouldn't fit in with the Wild Animal Habitat theme of its section of the
>park.  

They're building it in the "Wild Animal" area?  Does anyone know exactly    
where because i don't know where there is any room for it..

>>Geoff ``Son of Bat was stupid, but it was better than that!'' Allen

--
Watch the Luff !!!!!!!!

luff@camelot.bradley.edu
        or if you want to be difficult 
		luff@buhub.bradley.edu

Newsgroups: rec.roller-coaster
From: sld@cbnewse.cb.att.com (steve.l.dennis)
Subject: Anybody seen a Whirlwind?
Organization: AT&T
Date: Wed, 9 Sep 1992 18:18:21 GMT
Keywords: whirlwind traver

When I was a youngster I remember going to Oaks Park in Portland, Oregon when
they had a coaster type ride called the "Whirlwind". I remember reading the
fine print on the sign and it said "made by the makers of the Cyclone".

The Whirlwind was electrically operated and had a few hills and tight turns.
It first ran forward and could be reversed for the second part of the ride.
Rumor has it that it was a Harry Traver product. The Oaks operated the
Whirlwind until 1959 when it was replaced by the Mad Mouse. The Whirlwind
sat on the same spot as the long-departed "Zip", also a Traver device.
Currently, the station still exists and was made into a welding shop and
can be seen in the park. The supports for the tracks can be seen as
steel trellises in the picnic area. Some of the old-timers around the park
said the ride was originally at Jantzen Beach, and the Oregon State Fair
before coming to the Oaks.

This ride must have existed some place else as well and I wonder if
anyone remebers it or knows more about it.

Steve (thinking about Texas Giant III) Dennis
From: v120p993@ubvmsb.cc.buffalo.edu (Kevin F Hulme)
Newsgroups: rec.roller-coaster
Subject: How do I get Amusement Business???
Date: 13 Sep 92 16:07:00 GMT
Organization: University at Buffalo
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41


Hello. I was reading the post about Amusement Business with Steel Phantom
on the cover---- What is it, and where can I get it??? A magazine at the 
newsstands?? Info appreciated.

                          Kevin
Newsgroups: rec.roller-coaster
From: wjf@controls.ccd.harris.com (Bill Figie)
Subject: Re: Batman The Ride( was: Re: The Vortex)
Originator: wjf@rs2
Keywords: gack, ugh, barf
Organization: Harris Controls
Date: Mon, 14 Sep 1992 20:34:33 GMT


Bird,

I think you hit upon something that I have thought about many
times before and even use in my ratings of various coasters. 
If a coaster looks awesome but doesn't ride like it looks, then
it gets negative points in my book.  You example of the American
Eagle is excellent.  This coaster looks like it should knock you
socks off.  I only rode it twice when it first opened but I was
not as impressed as I expected to be.  Other coasters that their
reputation did not live up to my expectation are Mr. Twister and
the Texas Cyclone.  I expected them to be number ones just
simple because of all the hype but my first few rides was a let
down.  It took many other rides to convince me how good these
coasters really were.  I ended up liking the Texas Cyclone but
only after several night rides (this is NOT the current TC that
I am talking about but the early 1980's TC).  It only took 3 or
4 rides for me to like Mr. Twister.  But that first ride after
all the hype was such a let down.  

Anyone out there want to discuss other coasters that they had a
big build up for but didn't live up to their expectations.  On
the other side of the coin are coasters that no one has said
anything about but when you ride it, it is fantastic and beyond
expectations.  One ride that comes to mind is the old State Fair
Comet.  At only about 50 feet (54 is what I think is the correct
height) it really didn't look like a "don't miss" ride.  But
when I rode it there were negative G's on every hill.  I
couldn't believe it.  Another great surprise was the two Giant
Dippers in California.  Again both are rather small coasters but
both are excellent rides.  Anyone have any stories about
coasters like these.  I hear that the Yankee Cannonball is
another of those under rated rides.  I missed riding it when I
was up in that area because I hadn't heard great things about
this coaster.  This was back in the early 80's.  Now I know
better.  Again, as I like to say, bigger isn't always better.

		Bill "woodies are forever" Figie
From: aq009@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (David A. Johnson)
Newsgroups: rec.roller-coaster
Subject: Re: Batman The Ride( was: Re: The Vortex)
Date: 14 Sep 92 21:36:00 GMT
Reply-To: aq009@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (David A. Johnson)
Organization: Case Western Reserve University, Cleveland, OH (USA)
NNTP-Posting-Host: hela.ins.cwru.edu


In a previous article, rhb@ucs.usl.edu (Bird Rendell H.) says:

>It is almost blasphemy to mention the name of Batman the Ride and
>the ABOSOLUTELY *dreadful* American Eagle in the same sentence.
>
>My friends had told me to ride the A.E. with 'greatest reservations'.
>I had myself set for a disapointment. I still managed to over-estimate
>the ride. In many ways, The American Eagle may be the worst wooden
>coaster I have ever ridden!

I don't keep a ranking of the roller coasters I've ridden, but it's pretty
easy to think of which ones would fall toward the extremes of the list.  My
favorite is The Beast, and I tend to believe that the American Eagle would
most likely be at the very bottom of my list.  It was a complete
disappointment.  

Going down the first drop, I began to think "hey, this might be good," but
then we slammed into the first of three sets of brakes (which apparently
are there to eliminate any degree of speed/thrills).  Plus, the track was
in terrible shape.  In short: yuck!


>(If only because: the look is *so* impressive, and the ride so *DULL*)

Yes, this is a good point.  For such a huge and visually stunning ride, it
should be backed up with some thrills.  (The Beast, on the other hand,
can't really be "sized up" until you ride it; it's all off in inaccessible
sections of land.  And it has big thrills, too.)


I also have to say that Batman: The Ride is by far the best ride there.


(This is shaping up to be "Dump on the American Eagle Day"...)   :-)

-- 
_________________         David "Buddy" Johnson         _________________
      "I'm       \     aq009@cleveland.freenet.edu     /   ...no one
   looking for    \       "The Beast is always        /  seems to have." 
    something...   \       lurking in ambush."       /     -Mudhoney
Newsgroups: rec.roller-coaster
From: geoff@pmafire.inel.gov (Geoff Allen)
Date: Mon, 14 Sep 92 14:33:58 GMT
Organization: Roller Coaster fanatic with no hope for a cure
Subject: Re: KI's new-for-93 suspended coaster
Summary: 
Followup-To: 
Organization: Roller Coaster fanatic with no hope for a cure
Keywords: 

aq009@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (David A. Johnson) writes:

>I'm wondering if anyone has any information at all on Kings Island's Arrow
>suspended coaster which is opening in 1993.  
>
>I've heard some of the rumors, read what ACE News reported about it, and
>seen the stack of track in the parking lot myself.  What I'm looking for
>now are any interesting, more specific details about it.  (Placement in the
>Wild Animal Habitat?  Interesting features?  Possible names?)

I've heard that the name is supposed to be Star Trek -- The Ride.



I'm not kidding.

Geoff ``Son of Bat was stupid, but it was better than that!'' Allen

--
Geoff Allen          \  Please remain seated and keep your hands and arms
uunet!pmafire!geoff   \  above your head at all times.  Enjoy your ride.
geoff@pmafire.inel.gov \