From: bense@oasys.dt.navy.mil (Ron Bense)
Newsgroups: rec.autos.tech
Subject: Re: Oxygenated Gasoline and Low MPG (super unleaded?)
Date: 11 Jan 93 16:28:17 GMT
Reply-To: bense@oasys.dt.navy.mil (Ronald Bense)
Organization: Carderock Division, NSWC, Bethesda, MD

In rec.autos.tech, jgd@dixie.com (John De Armond) writes:
>bense@oasys.dt.navy.mil (Ron Bense) writes:

>Umm maybe so but I'll bet on my sources at API (American Petroleum Institute)
>over day labor on a loading dock.

If you want to call a guy that has attained the rank of captain a day
laborer, be my guest.

>Not suprising. Hourly workers have all kinds of superstitions that
>can't be changed by any amount of fact.  When I used to work in a

See above.

>>Alcohol requires oxygen to burn. Something like Potassium Perchlorate
>>decomposes and yields extra oxygen. That's what I would call an oxygenate,
>>but no one has answered that yet, so I'll wait and see what occurs.

>ethers fit the category.  If you think that ANY of these fuels can
>burn without oxygen and thus are hard to extinguish OR you believe

Obviously I don't, would you care to check your reading comprehension
by going over this thread again?

>that potassium perchlorate or any other oxidizer is blended into
>pump gas, then, well... I have some nice seafront property to sell...

My point was that NaClO5 is a chemical that will produce excess oxygen
when it decomposes. According to all the snake-oil type commercials
and other bull going on about this new "oxygenated" gas, this is what
the additives are supposed to do (add oxygen, that is). As for the seafront
property, that wouldn't be near the Dewey beach region, would it? :)

[deleted response to 1]

a) I believe the technical aspects of your response to one.
b) My car compensates for "leanness" by reading the O2 value in the
   exhaust and regulating fuel input to the engine. This does not
   apply.

>Specific energy is almost the same for alcohol and gasoline:

>Gasoline        2.92
>methanol        3.08
>Ethanol         3.00

very good, now let's look at:

>Heating value

>Gasoline        42.7 MJ/kg
>Methanol        19.9
>Ethanol         26.8

Heat and gas expansion are where the energy comes from. Which would 
you rather be running your car on?

>oxygen content:

Doesn't really mean diddly to the average consumer, who just notes that
the amount he pays to go one mile just increased by 10-20%.

>The economy difference between propane and gasoline is due to the different
>density and molecular weight of the fuels and thus the difference in
>the number of fuel atoms per gallon of fuel.  Propane does NOT produce
>less power than gasoline.  Propane's slight loss in volumetric efficiency

Ok, so it was an unfair comparison, but when you're taxed by the gallon...

>due to its being introduced as a gas instead of a liquid is more than
>offset by its high octane.  When the engine is tuned for propane (NOT
>duel fuel, add-on conversions), it makes as much power as a gas motor.

Ah, but the add-on conversions (which, from what I remember about them,
don't cost an excessive amount) would significantly reduce pollution
in older cars, would they not? More so than this meager reduction offered
by the "new" gas, after you factor in how much more of it is burned.

Ron
Newsgroups: rec.autos.tech