From: nordenga@tc.fluke.COM (Arnold E. Nordeng)
Subject: Re: Proof: God wrote the Bible
Organization: John Fluke Mfg. Co., Inc., Everett, WA
Date: Fri, 2 Oct 1992 19:11:32 GMT


In article <gPR1qB1w164w@uuisis.isis.org> doug@uuisis.isis.org (Doug Thompson) writes:
>
>>>Divine inspiration is what the bible claims of itself.  When the bible 
>>>>claims  that "all scripture is inspired" (theopneustos-literally God breathed) 
>>>>it is claiming *what is written* is true.
>
>Jesus told many parables the overt content of which was not directly
>'true' or connected to actual historical events. "A woman loses a coin .
>. ." Well, we all know that the *meaning* of the story is a higher meaning
>and Jesus is not giving us 'facts' about a particular historical person
>and event in relaying that story even though the overt content of the
>text is a report of a person losing some money.

Yes, I wouldn't disagree with this.  But, it is important to discern
the bible is very clear when it uses parables.  And the bible reports
*truthfully* that a parable was used in Jesus' teachings.  And the bible
contains lies, too.  I am not refuting what I have said--that the bible reports
only truth.  It reports that lies were stated, and that is the truth. 
Like the controversy over the end of 1Sam and the beginning of 2Samuel where
the amalekite tells David that he killed Saul.  Some say this is a biblical
controversy.  I say it is not if the Amalekite is lying and the bible is
truthfully reporting this lie.  Which definitely appears to be the case.
Men sometimes lie, sometimes tell truth.  Satan always lies, but God
can only speak truth.    My point is that when the bible claims God-breathed
inspiration, it is not some kind of poetic inspiration, but rather men
moved by God, speaking for God.  Historically the Jews understood this that
in copying the scriptures, if *one* mistake was made, they would destroy the
copy.   This is evident in the findings at Qumran in that very few copy
errors where found in manuscripts separated by over 1000 years of Isaiah.

>
>Now if we recognize that a great deal of what Jesus is reported to have
>said is *not* to be taken literally but must be understood
>metaphorically how can we leap to the assertion that the Bible itself
>*is* to be taken literally and must not be interpreted metaphorically?

The bible is very clear when metaphors or hyperbole or parables are used.
If it is clear there is no metaphor, like "go make disciples of all nations.."
for example, then it should be taken literally.  

>So I would ask that you stop and think about 'truth' and get the notion
>out of your head that it has anything to do with 'accurate reports of
>facts'. It will help if you read the gospels with the question "who was
>the first person to discover the empty tomb after the resurrection?" You
>will find that there is more than one answer. Obviously enough that kind
>of question can only have one 'true' answer.
>
>The point is that this isn't a sensible question to ask of a document
>like the Bible. If you ask such dumb questions you won't find good
>answers. :-).

In the case of the tomb, there are 3 observations made by 3 *different*
authors.  Just as 3 witnesses can report an auto accident 3 different ways,
and all testimonies can be true and reconciled, so too with the bible.
An omission or addition is *not* a contradiction.   The fact that
we have three separate accounts that share the main details made
by three authors at three different times gives veracity.  More so the
fact that we have 40 authors over 1500 years on 3 continents that say
one message that man is sinful and needs a savior adds veracity.

If you want to claim the bible is untrustworthy in its facts or details, 
then how can you as a "christian" support the resurrection as a fact or 
detail, the cornerstone of our faith?  The common theme of all non-Christian
religions is to first doubt the bible as the inerrant word of God--something
that Jesus Christ did not do.
Just look at JW's, Mormons, Islam, Newage, Christian Science, Moonies & the
Unitarians, Bahai's etc etc etc......  

>
>=Doug
>
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-Arnold Nordeng
 nordenga@tc.fluke.COM

Xref: sparky talk.religion.newage:4542 alt.alien.visitors:7175 sci.skeptic:17437