HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: freedman@cs.colostate.edu (keith freedman)
Subject: Re: Boycott CU Football!!!
Date: Wed, 18 Nov 1992 17:28:29 GMT
Reply-To: freedman@cs.colostate.edu
Organization: Colorado State University -=- Computer Science Department

In article 21755@yuma.ACNS.ColoState.EDU, wallsj@CS.ColoState.EDU (jeffrey joel walls) writes:
>In article <1992Nov17.225655.23248@claven.ucar.edu> woods@claven.ucar.edu (Greg Woods) writes:
>>
>>McCartney has a lifetime contract.  Boycotting CU football will most
>>likely hurt the University itself, and the future careers of the 
>>players (regardless of whether or not they supported #2) more than it will
>>McCartney. 
>
> Alright!!!  Boycott CU Football!!!  Then CSU *might* have a chance
> to get some good prospects and *might* actually win a few games!
>
> :-)
>
> Jeff (go rams go!)

I think it's still hopeless?!!!
 8) [The futures so bright, I've gotta wear shades]

---
Keith Freedman
Colorado State University
Department of Computer Science
Systems Administration

Newsgroups: co.general,boulder.general
From: johnsonc@spot.Colorado.EDU (Chris Johnson)
Subject: Pay, availability, etc.
Summary: Job info questions
Organization: University of Colorado, Boulder
Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1992 18:10:43 GMT

I am a Math major at CU who will be graduating in May, '93.  I am looking
for a job (in math, or math related), to pay the bills while I look for
a graduate program to attend.  What I need to know is can I expect to 
find a decent job in the Boulder vicinity if I have a ~3.2 GPA, and
good recs from professors here?  What is typical pay for a starting job?
and any other info that may help me find gainful employment.

Also, I know that in the past if you could get employed by the right 
company, they would pay for your grad school.  Does this still happen
today?  Do they fund better than a good grad package?  I am currently
looking to get a Ph.d in math, and then going on to a tenure track
position in a research university like CU. 

Please e-mail me with any information that you have.

johnsonc@spot.colorado.edu

phone (303) 449-9565
655 Arapahoe Rd.
Boulder CO 80302

Thanks.
     Chris

-- 
^----------^----------^----------^----------^----------^----------^----------^
|   JohnsonC@Spot.Colorado.EDU     :    ->CHoKE<- It's a band,               | 
|   O. Phone (303) 492-5031        :          It's a lifestyle               |
<><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>
Newsgroups: co.general
From: kary@col.hp.com (Dan Kary)
Subject: Re: Don't boycott all of Colorado
Date: Sat, 21 Nov 1992 23:53:57 GMT
Organization: HP Colorado Springs Division

freedman@cs.colostate.edu (keith freedman) writes:
> In article 24047@col.hp.com, kary@col.hp.com (Dan Kary) writes:
> >> OF COURSE THEY WERENT FIRED.  He couldn't legally fire them UNTIL NOW, could he?
> >> 
> >
> >Colorado Springs, El Paso County and the State of Colorado have no laws
> >or ordinances specifically protecting homosexuals.  No law that affects
> >Perkins Chrysler Plymouth in Colorado Springs was affected by amendment 2.
> >
> If there were no laws specifically protection homosexuals in the State of
> Colorado, why did you want to pass a law that in your words "removes special
> protection."  Apparently, according to you, there wasn't any to begin with.
> 

You must be confusing me with someone else.  I've never said anything about
removing special protection.  That argument came from CFV and some people have
repeated it here.  I have not.

> >If it was illegal for Will Perkins to fire an employee for being homosexual
> >before amendment 2 passed why is it now legal?  I just don't see anything
> >in the amendment that changes what Perkins (or any employer or landlord, etc.)
> >can do.
> >
> prior to the ammendment, if he were to fire an employee based upon sexual
> orientation, the employee would have had a valid legal claim of descrimination.
> The ammendment prevents the State of Colorado from recognizing such a claim
> in the case of homosexuality.  Perhaps you could re-read the ammendment and
> let me know if this is not the case.
> ---
> Keith Freedman
> 

Before #2 was passed there were no laws in Colorado Springs or the State of
Colorado protecting homosexuals.  Any claims of discrimination would have to
be filed in federal court.  That remains true in all of Colorado except Aspen,
Boulder and Denver where there was (actually still is until January) specific
municipal protection for homosexuals.  Getting back to Will Perkins employees,
I don't see how anything changed for them since Colorado Springs, El Paso
County and the State of Colorado would do nothing for them before #2 anyhow.
Their recourse was and is the federal court system.

BTW, I expect the federal court will place a restraining order (or whatever)
on #2 until the case is resolved.  It wouldn't make any sense to allow it to
become effective and then later declare it unconstitutional.

Dan Kary
kary@col.hp.com
-- 
"And that, my leige, is how we know the earth to be banana shaped."
Newsgroups: co.general,co.politics
From: perrier@teal.csn.org (Perry A. Branch)
Subject: Re: Don't boycott all of Colorado
Organization: Colorado SuperNet, Inc.
Date: Sat, 21 Nov 1992 21:26:39 GMT

In article <1992Nov20.202056.24224@col.hp.com> aja@col.hp.com (Al Anderson) writes:
>First some Facts.
># 1.   3-4% is a more correct nunber  (Political Guesstimates are always 
>                                       inflated by 2x or more)

A "more correct number" is what you consider a fact?!?


># 2. Nobody LOST anything except: The Future Possibility of "Extra Rights for
>     gays".


This "fact" is completely incorrect.  In Boulder if I am refused housing
and I believe the reason is because of my sexual orientation I can file
a discrimination action.  When Ammendment 2 goes into effect, I will still
be able to claim discrimination becuase I am hetrosexual. (Of course I would
have to prove it, but that is another matter.)  If I were homosexual or bi-
sexual I would not have EQUAL protection becuase of Ammendment 2.  I would
have LOST that right.  It is similar to a law that said jews couldn't make
any claim of discrimination becuase of religious belief.  Everyone else is
protected EXCEPT jews.  Ammendment 2 says everyone else is protected EXCEPT
homosexuals, lesbians or bi-sexuals.


We are up to 50% of your "facts" and things aren't looking very promising.


># 3. As far as I can tell no one from CFV has threatened the life of anyone gay.


"As far as I can tell..."  Boy, you sure do define "fact" loosely...


># 4. Amend #2 LOST ONLY in the counties of Denver, Boulder, and Pitkin.  If
>     there had not been a lorge NO vote in those counties Ament #2 would have
>     passed by an even bigger margin.


That is incorrect as well.  Several of the ski areas voted No on 2.


>Now for some Opinions.


After all those "facts" I don't think I'll bother with your opinions...


>Al (Proud to Be an American - and not ashamed of Colorado) Anderson

Perry (Sorely underestimated the gullability of Colorado voters) Branch

-- 
 ___  ___  ___   ___  _  _                    Perry A. Branch
(  o)(  _)(  o) (  o)( \/ ) Software Craftsperson II         perrier@pvi.com
 ) /  ) _) )  \  )  \ \  /  Precision Visuals, Inc.      (303) 530-2323 x283
(_/  (___)(_)\_)(_)\_)(_/   6230 Lookout Road            Boulder, CO   80301
Newsgroups: co.general
From: sherry@col.hp.com (Sherry Adair)
Subject: Bike stuff for sale
Date: Mon, 16 Nov 1992 05:07:12 GMT
Organization: HP Colorado Springs Division

Brand new:

Yakima Mountain B-String   $50

Cycle Smith Mountain Fanny Pack    $69

Zefal Double Shot Tire Pump   $19

Pearlizumi Pittard Leather Gloves (all sizes)   $17



Call  (719) 593-5912


Newsgroups: co.general
From: kary@col.hp.com (Dan Kary)
Subject: Re: interesting thought (ammendment 2)
Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1992 20:09:59 GMT
Organization: HP Colorado Springs Division

> The
> limits in the first amendment say, essentially, "the government cannot harass
> you".  The limits in 2 say, "the government cannot prevent others from
> harassing you".  There is a world of difference.
>
> Marc Sabatella

Thanks, that's an important difference I hadn't thought of myself.  One
question I still wonder about has not been addressed anywhere I have seen.
I live in Colorado Springs and you (aparently) live in or around Fort Collins. 
Neither of these communities, nor the county or State they are in have ever
ever had any kind of gay rights ordinance or law.  Has it always been legal
to discriminate against homosexuals in these communities?  If not, why is
it now legal to discriminate?

I think it would have been illegal to discriminate against homosexuals before
amendment 2, based on the US Constitution, Amendments and case law.  I think
that is still the case.  Amendment 2 just removes city, county and state govt.
from legislating/enforcing these issues.

I've always thought that local civil rights ordinances are a bad idea because
I feel that local government and what they have that passes for a "judiciary"
is not competent to judge anything more important than traffic violations.
I don't want a local civil rights commission or panel or a municipal judge
making civil rights decisions.  Those matters are simply too important to
be placed in the hands of amateurs.  I very strongly prefer that civil rights
issues be the domain of federal laws and courts.  I see no need for local
interpretation of civil rights, civil rights need to be the same everywhere
and there is no need for local variances.

Dan Kary
kary@col.hp.com

-- 
"And that, my leige, is how we know the earth to be banana shaped."
Newsgroups: co.general
From: fcrary@ucsu.Colorado.EDU (Frank Crary)
Subject: Re: interesting thought (ammendment 2)
Organization: University of Colorado, Boulder
Date: Sat, 21 Nov 1992 07:44:31 GMT

In article <Nov20.185127.67010@yuma.ACNS.ColoState.EDU> freedman@cs.colostate.edu writes:
>>  Criteria originally instituted for special protection under
>>  Civil Rights Act of 1964:
>>  1)  Economic disadvantage,
>>  2)  Educational/
>>  3)  Cultural deprivation
>>  4)  Political Powerlessness.

>If you continue telling us that homosexuality is a lifestyle, then wouldn't that
>lifestyle be considered a culture?  Isn't ammendment 2 Cultural deprivation?

Even accepting the assertion, Amendment 2 isn't cultural deprivation:
It doesn't directly do anything.

                                                 Frank Crary
                                                 CU Boulder

Newsgroups: co.general,co.politics
From: mjs@fc.hp.com (Marc Sabatella)
Subject: Re: Constitution
Reply-To: marc@hpmonk.fc.hp.com
Organization: Hewlett-Packard Company
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1.4 PL6]
Distribution: co
Date: Tue, 17 Nov 1992 23:23:58 GMT

Frank Crary (fcrary@ucsu.Colorado.EDU) wrote:
 
: >If there was a constitutional
: >amendment that said "People with an education from Mexico shall never be
: >granted the federal exemption from literacy tests", do you think the Supreme
: >Court would have upheld it?
: 
: If you mean an amendment to a state constitution, I still think such
: a law would be upheld: The Court has ruled that such a law (applying
: in that case to Puerto Ricans, not Mexicans) was constitutional,
: so I don't see why a provision in a state constitution to the
: same effect would be any different.

But just a little while ago you noted there was a big difference between not
grantng protection and denying it.  Do you not think that distinction is
relevant here?  The law about Puerto Ricans didn't explicitly deny the right in
question to Mexicans; it left that door open.  A constitutional amendment that
forbids Mexicans from achieving this strikes me as entirely different from
simply not passing a law that gives it to them.

I'm not saying you're wrong here, but I'm trying to understand why what seems
to me to be an obvious difference in the cases doesn't seem to matter.

--
Marc Sabatella
marc@hpmonk.fc.hp.com
--
Amendment 2 Is Legalized Discrimination - Shame On You, Colorado
--
"Neither the State of Colorado ... nor any of its municipalities ... shall ...
 enforce any ... ordinance ... whereby homosexual, lesbian, or bisexual
 orientation ... shall ... be the basis of ... any ... claim of discrimination"
--
All opinions expressed herein are my personal ones
and do not necessarily reflect those of HP or anyone else.
Newsgroups: co.general
From: kary@col.hp.com (Dan Kary)
Subject: Re: Don't boycott all of Colorado
Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1992 20:17:07 GMT
Organization: HP Colorado Springs Division

> OF COURSE THEY WEREND FIRED.  He couldn't legally fire them UNTIL NOW, could he?
> 

Colorado Springs, El Paso County and the State of Colorado have no laws
or ordinances specifically protecting homosexuals.  No law that affects
Perkins Chrysler Plymouth in Colorado Springs was affected by amendment 2.

If it was illegal for Will Perkins to fire an employee for being homosexual
before amendment 2 passed why is it now legal?  I just don't see anything
in the amendment that changes what Perkins (or any employer or landlord, etc.)
can do.

Dan Kary
kary@col.hp.com

-- 
"And that, my leige, is how we know the earth to be banana shaped."
From: cjmarsha@slate.mines.colorado.edu (Charles Marshall)
Newsgroups: co.general
Subject: Re: Local beers (was: Info on local tavern...)
Date: 18 Nov 92 05:16:08 GMT
Organization: Colorado School of Mines

What about the Wynkoop?  Homebrew pale ales, porters, stouts, and ESB's.

Great stuff, to-die-for appetizers, and good atmosphere...


-- 
---------------------------------------------------------------------
Charles Marshall            Bitnet: cjmarsha@flint.mines.colorado.edu
Information Services        Usenet: cjmarsha@slate.mines.colorado.edu 
Colorado School of Mines
From: ssurgui@ucdacm.denver.colorado.edu (Scott Surguine)
Newsgroups: co.general
Subject: POSITION WANTED: UNIX SYS ADMIN
Date: 18 Nov 92 01:54:59 GMT


Greetings,


    I am a Talented Individual who Is Currently in Search of A Unix Sys
Admin Position in the Denver/Boulder Area.  I have approxiamtely 2 Years
experience in this Area.  My experience spans accross several Platforms:
SUN, DEC, Sequent, and SGI.  I am most Conversant with SUN.  I am quite
proficient in working with UNIX tools, including Sed, AWK, Perl.

    If You Know of anyone attepmting to fill this type of need pleas
contact me at this address or s3surgui@copper.denver.colorado.edu.

     Thanks,

                     Scott A. Surguine







Newsgroups: co.general
From: freedman@cs.colostate.edu (keith freedman)
Subject: Re: Colorado Amendment 2: The First Fatalit
Date: Sat, 21 Nov 1992 19:54:56 GMT
Reply-To: freedman@cs.colostate.edu
Organization: Colorado State University -=- Computer Science Department

In article 1GJ@fig.citib.com, glp@fig.citib.com (Greg Parkinson) writes:
>
>In article <1992Nov20.000552.21257@col.hp.com>, vanm@col.hp.com (Van Martin) writes:
>
>|>  Contrary to the reporter's coverage of this campaign and issue, there
>|> is another (majority) opinion in Colorado that homosexual behavior
>|> doth not a specially-protected group make. 
>
>1) Religious behavior does make a specially-protected group.  Why
>   should this be different?
>
>2) Even the Catholic Church recognizes that homosexuality is an
>   innate characteristic, and discrimination exists against people
>   who may be celibate but are attracted to members of the same sex.
>   No behavior there, other than speech.  

Perhaps the Homosexual community should band together and call themselves a religion.
That would provide them with MUCH MORE protection then they had ever wanted, an hey-
they would even be tax deductable?!

---
Keith Freedman				"All extremists should be taken
Colorado State University		 out and shot."  -Anonymous
Department of Computer Science
Systems Administration

Newsgroups: co.general,boulder.general
From: gomez@spike.ucar.edu (Kristina Gomez)
Subject:  I NEED TICKETS FOR BOTH GRATEFUL DEAD SHOWS IN DECEMBER
Summary:  Does anyony have tickets to sell????
Organization: COMET/Univ. Corporation for Atmospheric Research, Boulder  CO
Date: Mon, 16 Nov 1992 18:29:16 GMT



I have a friend who was unable to get tickets to the Grateful Dead
show in Denver in December.  He would like two tickets for each show.
I don't know yet how much he is willing to pay, but I told him I would
scout the area for tickets (He lives in Durango).

Please call me or respond via email as soon as possible!!!!


Thanks for your help!

Kristi Gomez
--
E. Kristi Gomez		    *	"The mere thought hadn't even begun to
gomez@spike.comet.ucar.edu  *	speculate about the merest possibility
(303) 497-8470		    *	of crossing my mind" -- a rotund construction 
"Standard Disclaimer"	    *	foreman with a predilection for furry hats HHGTG
Newsgroups: co.general
From: mjs@fc.hp.com (Marc Sabatella)
Subject: Re: interesting thought (ammendment 2)
Reply-To: marc@hpmonk.fc.hp.com
Organization: Hewlett-Packard Company
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1.4 PL6]
Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1992 00:35:57 GMT

Frank Crary (fcrary@ucsu.Colorado.EDU) wrote:
: 
: Protections for Christians are a slightly different matter, since
: the First Amendment to the federal Constitution specifically
: protects religous groups. Legally, whether or not they "deserve"
: such protection isn't an issue: There is a specific and supreme
: law on the subject.

It protects them from government interference; I don't see how anyone could
possibly interpret it as protecting them against discrimination by private
citizens or companies.

--
Marc Sabatella
marc@hpmonk.fc.hp.com
--
Amendment 2 Is Legalized Discrimination - Shame On You, Colorado
--
"Neither the State of Colorado ... nor any of its municipalities ... shall ...
 enforce any ... ordinance ... whereby homosexual, lesbian, or bisexual
 orientation ... shall ... be the basis of ... any ... claim of discrimination"
--
All opinions expressed herein are my personal ones
and do not necessarily reflect those of HP or anyone else.
Newsgroups: co.general
From: freedman@cs.colostate.edu (keith freedman)
Subject: Re: Don't boycott all of Colorado
Date: Mon, 23 Nov 1992 02:30:35 GMT
Reply-To: freedman@cs.colostate.edu
Organization: Colorado State University -=- Computer Science Department

In article 11596@ucsu.Colorado.EDU, fcrary@ucsu.Colorado.EDU (Frank Crary) writes:
>In article <Nov21.191046.83801@yuma.ACNS.ColoState.EDU> freedman@cs.colostate.edu writes:
>>>If it was illegal for Will Perkins to fire an employee for being homosexual
>>>before amendment 2 passed why is it now legal?  I just don't see anything
>>>in the amendment that changes what Perkins (or any employer or landlord, etc.)
>>>can do.
>
>>prior to the ammendment, if he were to fire an employee based upon sexual
>>orientation, the employee would have had a valid legal claim of descrimination.
>
>And, without any specific laws to support the claim, an almost impossible
>job of willing such a suit.
>
regardless of how difficult it would be to win, they would have been able to at
least have their case heard.  Now, it is illegal to listen!
---
Keith Freedman
Colorado State University
Department of Computer Science
Systems Administration

Newsgroups: co.general,co.politics
From: fcrary@ucsu.Colorado.EDU (Frank Crary)
Subject: Re: Don't boycott all of Colorado
Organization: University of Colorado, Boulder
Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1992 07:56:41 GMT

In article <1992Nov18.230811.7510@col.hp.com> dag@col.hp.com (David Geiser) writes:
>I live in Colorado Springs.  Everyone I've talked to is _very_ surprised that
>#2 passed.  They attribute it to the poor wording on the ballot.  A few years
>ago, another amendment (on a different subject) after being approved by the
>voters, was overturned by the courts on the basis of poor and possibly
>deceptive or easy to confuse wording.  This is probably the most reasonable
>avenue of attack against #2.

Apparently not: The Denver Post listed all six counts on which Amendment
2 is currently being challenged. (p10A, Friday, 13 Nov 92) and this
is not one of them (I _think_: vagueness is one of the objections.
Techincally, this mean a law that is not sufficiently specific to be
enforcable, not a law that the voters misunderstood when they passed it.
But, of course, it's possible the paper got the details wrong...)

                                                  Frank Crary
                                                  CU Boulder

Newsgroups: co.general
From: ters@teal.csn.org (Terry Smith)
Subject: NEED CD-ROM/MULTIMEDIA TRAINING SITE
Organization: Colorado SuperNet, Inc.
Distribution: co
Date: Mon, 16 Nov 1992 21:39:04 GMT

In Jefferson County Public Schools, we have identified hundreds of
teachers who are seeking training (beginner to advanced) on CD-ROM
and other multimedia technologies.  We are looking for a facility
that is equipped to handle 20 - 30 adult students at one time with
Macintosh and/or MS-DOS microcomputers that are connected to CD-ROM
or IAV hardware.

If we can find such a facility (preferrably in Jefferson County, CO),
there are enough potential students who will be willing to pay for
a formal course of instruction for credit that it may be something
a college/university/business/industry wants to provide.

Please reply e-mail to ters@csn.org.  Thanks!

Newsgroups: co.general
From: freedman@cs.colostate.edu (keith freedman)
Subject: Re: Don't boycott all of Colorado
Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1992 04:33:23 GMT
Reply-To: freedman@cs.colostate.edu
Organization: Colorado State University -=- Computer Science Department

In article 7510@col.hp.com, dag@col.hp.com (David Geiser) writes:
>$DRIFT_ON
>The university can most certainly expect McCartney, who is a public figure and
>a representative of the university, to keep his public exposure pristine.  Not
>being publicly political is frequently part of that expectation and many times
>is explicitly expressed contractually.  Anybody out there know how to look it
>up in this particular case?
>$DRIFT_OFF
>
McCartney has been TOLD by the university that he is NOT allowed to represent
anything other than OFFICIAL UNIVERSITY OPINION on ANY issue.  He is, however
free to discuss his PERSONAL opinion as long as he makes it clear that he is
not acting as a University representative at the time.

---
Keith Freedman
Colorado State University
Department of Computer Science
Systems Administration

Newsgroups: co.general,co.politics.amend2.discuss,boulder.general,csu.general
From: vanm@col.hp.com (Van Martin)
Subject: Re: Support the boycott (was Re: Don't boycott all of Colorado)
Date: Mon, 23 Nov 1992 23:14:14 GMT
Organization: HP Colorado Springs Division

mike@gordian.com (Michael A. Thomas) writes:
>   This, boys and girls, is a person that is astonishing to me that 
> is still alive. How can anybody be this uninformed or maliciously evil?

  Well, we finally have a moralist who can distinguish evil from
  maliciously evil?  What crossed me over that border?  That I don't
  agree with you?  My how the net does howl.

  Who's un-informed?  Why don't you know anything about:

>     Here is a claim that homosexuals purposely tainted the
> blood supply to get AIDS research money. I don't suppose
> that there is any documentation to substantiate this claim.
> Divine revelations do not count.

  First, the militant homosexuals did not pollute the blood supply,
  but did threaten it.

  Don't you ever hear things?  Don't you ever read papers or books?
  Maybe you weren't old enough to have a radio in 1983?  I thought
  _everyone_ had heard about this one.  "Gays, AIDS and You" by Enrique
  Rueda, page 17.  In 1983, before blood screening was developed, Robert
  Schwab, who has since died of AIDS, called on the male homosexuals to
  give blood, whatever it takes to raise public consciousness for AIDS
  research.  "If that includes blood terrorism, so be it."

  I'm surprised that such an inflammatory remark missed you back then.
  But, then, I'm the ignorant one.  My error.  Happy Thanksgiving (really).

  Van Martin
  vanm@col.hp.com
Newsgroups: co.general