HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: smezias@wissel.GBA.NYU.EDU (Stephen J. Mezias)
Newsgroups: talk.abortion
Subject: Kellmeyer liar even in issues peripheral to Pro-LIE
Date: 13 Sep 92 18:02:15 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: NYU Stern School of Business

In article <BuFtHF.4FL@news.cso.uiuc.edu> slkg9733@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu
(Steven L. Kellmeyer) writes some interesting things about the Nazis.
Too bad his credibility is so low that I can't believe anything he has
to say.  Also, even in this post, which is relatively neutral with
respect to abortion, he states some points as fact that seem
questionable.  Deletia to get to these points:

>>the southern Bavaria region, are the same folk who were the primary
>>section of that favorite group the SS. I don't know about you, but anything
>>that curtailed their influence, I would be in favor of.
>
>This is extraordinarily misleading.

I have read several histories of the Nazi regime that posit the thesis
that Hitler drew his early supporters and much of the elite of the SS
from Bavaria.  This is not necessarily inconsistent with Kellmeyer's
point that there was much resistance to the Nazis there.  However,
Kellmeyer seem to deny that there is any truth in in the statement
about Bavarian SS elite.  Am I misunderstanding this?

>  The Catholic
>Church was not as severely hurt by Nazi rule largely because it's 
>"capitol" was not in Germany.  Protestant ministers and their flocks
>were more likely to support Nazi rule, and be spared retribution, than
>were Catholic priests and their congregations.  Notable exceptions to 
>both general rules of thumb can be found, of course, but the statistics
>on this are quite clear, as Childers and dozens before him have 
>demonstrated.  The Italians tended to be much more lenient to all forms
>of organized religion, including Jews, than were the Germans.  Since
>Italy is a predominantly Catholic country (as opposed to the Protestantism
>of the Germans) one can easily argue that it was the civilizing influence
>of Catholicism in Italy which prevented excesses similar to those of the
>Germans.  Your blanket statements overlook a wealth of caveats.

What about all the recent evidence that Pope Pius knew about the
Holocaust and stayed silent to protect the Church?  Is Kellmeyer's
claim that Mother Church was just spared by coincidence?

>Today, France is at least as xenophobic as Germany (witness the popularity
>of Le Pen and his ilk) and Poland and the CIS are having similar
problems.

Did the French skinheads start riots aimed at foreigners when I wasn't
looking?  

>The demonstrations taking place in Germany can be matched one for one with
>similar demonstrations in France - the simple fact is, this sort of demo
>sells better on TV when it comes from a country with Germany's history than
>it does when it comes from the land of the French revolution (which was the
>most bloody revolution of the 18th century, and arguably the most intolerant
>until the rise of Hitler).

So the media is conspiring to keep the French riots secret because
riots by former Nazi countries make better press?

Give me a break.

SJ
From: chrisl@stpaul.gov (Chris A Lyman)
Subject: Re: Lawsuit against Dr. Mildred Hanson
Organization: City of Saint Paul Public Works
Distribution: na
Date: Fri, 11 Sep 1992 15:46:43 GMT

decay@cbnewsj.cb.att.com (dean.kaflowitz) writes:
> chrisl@stpaul.gov (Chris A Lyman) writes:

>> Last week, Peter Nyikos mentioned that a lawsuit was filed against
>> Dr. Mildred Hanson of Minneapolis for failing to inform a patient
>> of the results of a pap smear in a timely manner.  Too bad he didn't
>> include the whole story.  The suit was thrown out before it ever went
>> to trial.  It seems that Dr. Hanson's office repeatedly sent the
>> results to the woman by mail and by telephone.  I learned this during
>> a telephone conversation with one of Dr. Hanson's associates.
>> 
>> Dr. Hanson has been the defendant in many nuisance lawsuits.  It
>> seems that there are lots of pro-lie lawyers out there willing to
>> take any sort of outrageous statement they can concoct with the
>> help of their clients into court.  In Dr. Hanson's case, all of
>> them resulted in not-guilty verdicts.

> Did you know about this, Peter?  Were you deliberately trying to
> mislead us?

It's very unlikely that Peter knew the final dispostion of this case,
Dean.  What I found in my diggings is that the filing of a lawsuit
such as the one mentioned above will get ink in the newspaper.  The
final disposition rarely, if ever, gets reported.

So the public is inundated with news stories of medical malpractice
lawsuits against doctors who perform abortions, but the public doesn't
hear about all the not-guilty verdicts or the cases that are thrown
out without a trial for lack of evidence.  It's a clever way to use
the media to disseminate right-to-lie propoganda, IMHO.

It makes me wonder about the veracity of Nyikos' "forced abortion"
article from a couple of weeks back.  It described almost word-for-
word the same kinds of activities that Dr. Hanson was accused of in
a different lawsuit.

> Thanks to Chris for going after the COMPLETE STORY.  It is
> a good example of how posting just a BIT OF THE STORY is used
> to mislead and deceive.

Aw, shucks.  Maybe you could clue me in as to what portable CD player
you use so I can be 'way cool like you.

> One might say that someone who posts just a bit of the story in
> order to deceive the reader is lacking in character, or is
> engaging in a sleazy smear campaign.

"By their fruits shall they be known," or something like that.
When it comes to abortion issues, the very best I can say about
Nyikos is that he doesn't think critically; he simply swallows
whole anything his buddy Charles Wysong feeds him.

-- 
Chris Lyman  /  email: chrisl@pwcs.stpaul.gov  /  #include <std.disclaimers.h>
    Not those mamby pamby wimp liberal "oh dear someone somewhere
    has done something unnice, I'll call the kare bears..." -- drieux
Newsgroups: talk.abortion
From: keegan@pan.crd.ge.com (James G Keegan Jr)
Newsgroups: talk.abortion
Subject: Re: WILL THE REAL MISOGYNISTS PLEASE STAND UP? Case 1.
Date: 7 Sep 92 15:32:16 GMT
Reply-To: james g keegan jr <keegan@crd.ge.com>
Organization: T.S.A.K.C.
Disclaimer: i speak for myself only, unless noted otherwise

kevin@rotag.mi.org (Kevin Darcy) writes:
-> smezias@wissel.GBA.NYU.EDU (Stephen J. Mezias) writes:

-> >Many of us who are pro-choice believe that the
-> >anti-choice position is fundamentally misogynistic
-> >because it places restrictions on the rights of
-> >women that are not equivalent to any placed on men.

[...]

-> If I shoot a burglar in the dark of night, and it
-> turns out the burglar is a woman, does that make me
-> a sexist? If the burglar is black or hispanic, does
-> it make me a racist? Be careful to separate
-> intentions from incidental effects.  Admittedly,
-> this "incidentality" is much more clear-cut in the
-> burglar-in-the- night examples than it is in the
-> case of the abortion controversy, but it's really
-> only a matter of degree...

that's some "degree." 100% in fact, unless you claim
that a gender other than female gets pregnant.

this looks to me like a moronic effort to explain away
your misogyny,




-- 
----
charter member   ...   T.S.A.K.C.
Newsgroups: talk.abortion
From: eric_gorr@coglab_psych.uoregon.edu (Eric Gorr)
Subject: Re: The christian perspective...?
Organization: University of Oregon Network Services
Date: Tue, 15 Sep 92 00:52:44 GMT

In article <y6yngcj.bskendig@netcom.com>, bskendig@netcom.com (Brian
Kendig) writes:
> 
> eric_gorr@coglab_psych.uoregon.edu (Eric Gorr) wrote (in article <1992Sep14.220550.24355@nntp.uoregon.edu>):
> >Do you believe that there exist certain cases of euthanasia which would be
> >morally ok?
> 
> What does euthanasia (mercy killing) have to do with abortion?

A lot, actually...so, please answer the question and I'll explain further.

Newsgroups: talk.abortion
From: judi@wam.umd.edu (Jay T Stein -- now with 25% more Alena on the brain)
Subject: Consistency, thy name is.... (formerly: "And maybe flog...")
Originator: judi@rac1.wam.umd.edu
Organization: WACDTF, Washington, D.C.
Date: Mon, 14 Sep 1992 07:03:36 GMT

What: <1992Sep12.012239.1391@noao.edu>
Who:  forgach@noao.edu (Suzanne Forgach)

>>   = Larry Margolis
>>>  = Suzanne Forgach
>>>> = Ren and Stimpy's Love Child

>>>> "So, you would charge the abortionist with murder and counsel the woman.
>>>>  What if the woman herself IS the abortionist?"
>>>
>>> I would suggest nothing worse than a fine or community service, but more
>>> likely counselling and rehab.
>> 
>> For *murder*?  Aren't you being a little inconsistent here?  If you think
>> it's murder, why would you charge the doctor, but let the woman literally
>> get away with murder?
>
>It's my choice.

Absolutely, Suzanne, it's your choice.  And if you want to take an inherently
contradictory position, I support your right to do so.  At least you admit
your position is inconsistent.  Of course I think that inconsistency
weakens an argument - but that's just my silly belief.
--
This world turns its back on God, we must fight to protect Him,
This world turns its back on God, we must die to join Him,
This world turns its back on God, we must kill to join Him.
             -- _Bob Roberts_

     _____     __      __      Pro-woman,      /   -=* Jay T Stein *=-
   |   |      |  \    /        Pro-family,    /
   |   |  in  |   |  |         Pro-child,    <  Internet: judi@wam.umd.edu
|__|   |      |__/    \__      PRO-CHOICE.    \    GEnie: J.STEIN18
                                               \
From: lip@s1.gov (Loren I. Petrich)
Newsgroups: talk.abortion
Subject: Re: Hey, Susan Garvin!
Date: 10 Sep 92 19:47:57 GMT
Organization: LLNL

In article <1992Sep10.002858.16862@csus.edu> chaneysa@nextnet.csus.edu (Stephen A Chaney) writes:
>In article <1992Sep9.030252.24526@s1.gov> lip@s1.gov (Loren I. Petrich) writes:

@ 	Well, Steve Chaney's comments about Susan Garvin really take
@ the cake. Calling her a "feminazi" and insinuating that she likes to
@ burn bras proves one thing -- Steve Chaney is not a feminist at all,
@ but a feminist-basher, despite his self-proclaimed membership in the
@ "Feminists for Life".

>Is this Easy Days or is this person attacking me with a really major
>lack of common sense? 

	How?

>My bashing the Molly Yard crowd is no worse than the NAACP blacks
>bashing the Republican / Clarence Thomas blacks. 

	Why is Molly Yard supposed to be so villainous?

>Does the word "Oreo," a constantly-used word, strike a chord in your
>memory? 

	Why is that supposed to be relevant?

	The only feminist equivalent would be a career woman opposed
to women's rights measures, such as Phyllis Schlafly. Susan Faludi's
_Backlash_ is not exactly pleasant reading, but the section on female
anti-feminists was certainly amusing. For a career woman to oppose
careers for women is like a black person supporting the Ku Klux Klan.

>Well, "bra-burners" is the equivalent, especially since these
>so-called feminist women have nothing in common with the roots they
>claim to call on. 

	How's that?

	Opposition to abortion is way out of the present-day feminist
mainstream.

@ 	I think he needs to be deborged. :-)

>I think you need to get on to pre-school. 

	After your deborging, of course :-)

@ 	"Propeller Boy" is a hint that he likes wearing propeller
@ beanies, which would not be surprising for a space cadet who has
@ called himself the "Insurgent" and the "Interceptor".

>You know, I'd feel a lot better if you'd stop calling me by your
>family nicknames, like "Propeller Boy." 

	Check your .sig some time. You sound just like some space
cadet, if not a Borg. So that's what the "Propeller Boy" bit is all
about.

>-----Steve Chaney: Founder, Borg Operating Space Systems, Revision 2.0-------
>	       The B.O.S.S. does not speak for CSUS. 

	What's "Borg Operating Space Systems"?
Newsgroups: talk.abortion
From: dking@raul.nas.nasa.gov (Dan King)
Subject: Re: Dan King for Congress!
Organization: Numerical Aerodynamic Simulation Facility NASA
Date: Tue, 8 Sep 92 01:42:38 GMT
Reply-To: dking@raul.nas.nasa.gov (Dan King)
Distribution: usa


sm>In article <29500@wissel.GBA.NYU.EDU> smezias@wissel.GBA.NYU.EDU (Stephen J. Mezias) writes:
dk>In article <1992Sep4.154103.21633@nas.nasa.gov>
dk>dking@raul.nas.nasa.gov (Dan King) writes: 
 
dk>I got to wondering, if I were to run for Congress supporting free love,
dk>should I be allowed to show love making on my commercials?

sm>Yeah, run, Dan, run!  Isn't this how the Ross Perot thing started?

It sure would make a reporters life easy.  Finding dirt in my past
would be way easy.  And I'd have a great time not denying things. 

Reporter:  Candidate King, did you ever inhale a marijuana cigarette?

Me:  Jeez son, not only did I inhale my fair share of joints, but I
learned how to bake brownies.  

Reporter:  Candidate King, have you ever had sexual relations outside
of marriage?

Me:  Sure plenty of times.  

Reporter:  Mow many times Mr. King?

Me:  Well it kind of depends on how you want to count the times when
my wife was included?

dk>Even though I strongly disagree with the content of the Bailey adds,
dk>I would defend his right to show his adds.

sm>Amen, bro.  If commercials are allowed to distort the facts with
sm>regularity, why shouldn't the pro-LIE folks be allowed to show a one
sm>inch fetus looking like a prawn and taking up the whole screen?  

Baileys distortions don't even compare to Budweisers.  I go and crack
open a cold Bud, and I never get surrounded by a bevy of bathin' 
babes.  Okay maybe one or two, but never a bevy.  

Dan King
Newsgroups: talk.abortion
From: wdo@TEFS1.acd.com (Bill Overpeck)
Subject: Re: for bill overpeck
Organization: Applied Computing Devices, Inc., Terre Haute IN
Date: Wed, 9 Sep 1992 18:35:17 GMT

In <1992Sep8.171005.15796@crd.ge.com> keegan@pan.crd.ge.com 
   (James G Keegan Jr) writes: >

>        "I haven't noticed any behavior from either
>        Chaney or Holtsinger that would indicate a need
>        for psychiatric evaluation."
>		<1992Sep2.191938.5951@acd4.acd.com>
>
> might i refer you to the following articles. if you
> don't have them, i'll be happy to email them to you.
>
>	Message-ID: <1992Sep8.151356.9274@csus.edu>
>	Message-ID: <1992Sep8.151810.9463@csus.edu>
>	Message-ID: <1992Sep8.152330.9676@csus.edu>
>	Message-ID: <1992Sep8.152723.9942@csus.edu>
>
> after you read them, i wonder if you might not want to
> amend your statement.

I read each of them.  You seem to be confusing immaturity with 
mental illness.

Bill
Newsgroups: talk.abortion
From: usglkrx@gsusgi2.gsu.edu (Lori K. Rothman)
Subject: Re: The christian perspective...?
Organization: Georgia State University
Date: Sun, 13 Sep 1992 15:45:54 GMT

bskendig@netcom.com (Brian Kendig) writes:

>forgach@noao.edu (Suzanne Forgach) wrote (in article <1992Sep12.005056.496@noao.edu>):
>>From article <24887@oasys.dt.navy.mil>, by bense@oasys.dt.navy.mil (Ron Bense):

>>> 3) Do you realize that some women don't care to let a z/e/f use their
>>> bodies for 9 months?
>>
>>Do you realize that women who abort are far less concerned about the "use
>>of their bodies" by the baby than they are worried about how they're going
>>to care for the baby after the birth?

>Hm?  I don't exactly see the point you're making, but what you said is
>right: some women have an abortion because they know they'll be unable
>(time-wise, money-wise, or both) to care for the baby after birth.
>And don't immediately chime in "adoption"; there are women who are
>emotionally unable to part with their child after giving birth to it,
>and this could mean an even tighter budget and that the woman leaves
>the child home alone in her apartment all day while she's at work.  Is
>it that important to carry a child to term even if the family will be
>much worse off because of it?

Actually, there are some women who abort who would prefer to give birth
and give the child up for adoption, but *cannot* afford to be pregnant.
In the case of a woman I knew, she wasn't in great health, but would
have suffered no permanent damage from having the child. She _would_
however, have had to leave work during her 7th month of pregnancy.  She
was in a low-paying, no benefits job, and would have had no money coming
in during the last 2 months, and no job to go back to once she had
the child.  She also would not have been able to afford pre-natal care,
or hospitalization if she got ill.  


>     << Brian >>

Lori Kent Rothman
usglkrx@gsusgi2.gsu.edu

my opinions...

Newsgroups: talk.abortion,alt.abortion.inequity
From: bmc@mayo.edu (Bruce Cameron, Med Sci 1-14, 4-3288)
Newsgroups: talk.abortion
Subject: Re: Roe v. Wade and abortion (was Re: Anot
Date: 14 Sep 92 20:49:15 GMT
Reply-To: bmc@mayo.edu
Organization: Mayo Foundation

In article 83928@yuma.ACNS.ColoState.EDU, sa114984@longs.lance.colostate.edu (Steven Arnold) writes:
>In article <24987@oasys.dt.navy.mil>, bense@oasys.dt.navy.mil (Ron Bense) writes:
>|> In talk.abortion, sa114984@longs.lance.colostate.edu (Steven Arnold) writes:
>|>  |>In article <24799@oasys.dt.navy.mil>, bense@oasys.dt.navy.mil (Ron Bense)
>|> 
>|> 
>|> >        Penetrating intellectual analysis at its finest.
>|> 
>|> At least you posted....
>|> 
>|>  |> It's not a human being with the connotations I believe you are implying.
>|> 
>|> >        The unborn child is a living member of the human species.  Mere human
>|> >tissue is not a living member of the human species.  I have the proof.
>|> 
>|> Then why didn't you post it, or would it be shot down by recent experiments
>|> that show the interchangeability of certain types of tumors and all
>|> fetuses?
>
>	No, it's well-known medical fact.  I'll post it if you like.  BTW, where
>are YOUR sources?


Cancer Cells vs. Embryonic cells

	Observation:
		cancer cells spread in a manner resembling embryonic cell
		migrations.
			Barbera et al.-- demonstrated specific adhesive
			recognition may control homing of optic nerves
			from retina to optic tectum
			Nicolson et al.-- demonstrated that cells from primary
			tumors for secondary tumors at sites where those cells
			have greatest adhesion.

	Question:
		do we have embryo-like tumors or tumor-like Embryos?
			Mintz et al.--isolated teratoma cells, injected the
			cells into early blastocysts (mice). The blasocysts
			were allowed to implant into the uteri of other
			femal mice (different genotype from cancer donor).
			embryos developed into tumor free adults, but with
			cells of both genotypes.

			also observed:
				(mouse)teratomas develop in clusters that
				resemble (mouse) embryos & will differentiate
				into the embryonic tissue types if in a suitable
				environment.

				normal (mouse) embryos will form teratomas if
				implanted in the testes.


Sources:

	Barbera et al., Adhesive Recognition and Retinotectal Specificity.,
	Proc. Nat. Acad. Sci. U.S., 70:2482-2486

	Faber J.J., and Thornburg K. L., Placental Physiology, Raven Press,
	New York, 1983

	Mintz, B., Clonal Basis of Mammalian Differentiation., Symp. Soc. Exp.
	Bio., 25:345-369

	Mott, J. C. and Walker D. W., Neural and endocrine regulation of
	circulation in the fetus and newborn. Handbook of Physiology,
	section 2: The Cardiovascular system -- peripheral circulation
	and organ blood flow, vol III, American Physiological Society,
	Bethesda, MD. 1983

	Nicolson, G. L. et al, Transmembrane Control of the Receptors
	on Normal and Tumor Cells. II. Surface Changes Associated with 
	Transformation and Malignancy. Biochem. Biophys. Acta 458:1-72

	Nicolson, G. L., Cell and Tissue Interactions Leading to Malignant
	Tumor Spread., Amer. Zool. 18:71-80
From: forgach@noao.edu (Suzanne Forgach)
Newsgroups: talk.abortion
Subject: Re: Out of the Mouths of Babes
Date: 5 Sep 92 00:27:16 GMT
Organization: National Optical Astronomy Observatories, Tucson, AZ, USA
Originator: forgach@gemini.tuc.noao.edu

From article <1992Sep2.001506.19237@mnemosyne.cs.du.edu>, by kcochran@nyx.cs.du.edu (Keith "Justified And Ancient" Cochran):
> 
> Let's not forget MissBitch's comment about how Gay men "Hate women because
> they won't have sex with them".


What I said was that gay men have sex with men because they hate women.
Newsgroups: talk.abortion
Subject: Sex Selective Impregnation
From: mcbeanb@brandonu.ca
Date: 6 Sep 92 15:16:15 CST
Organization: Brandon University, Brandon, Manitoba, Canada

     In reference to the "aborting females" thread, I saw on the
news the other night that a doctor was opening up a clinic in Toronto
and a clinic in Vancouver for sex-selective pregnancies.  They said
his method was 80% effective (no guarantees I guess, eh?).
     I was just wondering whatch'all may think about the concept,
seeing how so many people think the sex selective abortions are
disgusting...  Is it ok to "play God?"

Brian McBean  -  McBeanB@BrandonU.Ca

PS.  oh yeah, forgot to say that I think it's fine and dandy, but
     can only take the magic out of random sex selection!  Not for me.
From: mathew@mantis.co.uk (mathew)
Newsgroups: talk.abortion,alt.flame
Subject: Re: Revised consistency check
Date: 3 Sep 92 13:01:08 GMT
Organization: Mantis Consultants, Cambridge. UK.

gordons@coopsol.com (Gordon Storga) writes:
> <1992Aug27.233041.22694@csus.edu> chaneysa@nextnet.csus.edu (Stephen A Chaney
> >|           Dedicated to achieving civil rights for the unborn              
> 
> Does this mean that the NRLC is dedicated to achieving civil rights for 
> the unborn?  Or is this your own idea?
> 
> Please tell me how you plan on providing a fetus with a voting stylus.  Or
> were you planning on restricting a fetus's right to vote?

"Blacks have all the rights that others do.  So do women.  Why not fetuses ?"
 - Mike Faber <sleepy@wybbs.mi.org>

Obviously the fetus suffrage movement is popular amongst the intellectually
challenged.


mathew
-- 
"Even the most bizarre of the unions (probably that between a cat's gall
 stone and a single note 'G' from CNN's ident theme) managed to convey a
 sense of rampant impropriety."  -- 'Fortran Five', Simon G. Lawrence Leonard
From: cookc@aix.rpi.edu (rocker)
Subject: Re: Oh, so Rush ISN'T serious, eh, Astro Boy?
Date: Thu, 10 Sep 1992 05:53:48 GMT


This was great.

From: chaneysa@nextnet.ccs.csus.edu (Official researcher of USENET's Astro_Boy v
irus)

Due to the way nn shortens strings (sufficient text is cut from the
middle), this came up on my article list as 

"Official virus"

I like that.  It suits the Little Airplane Boy.

                    -rocker
Newsgroups: talk.abortion