HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: miles@ms.uky.edu (Stephen D. Grant)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: SKS Cleaning Rod
Date: 25 Jan 93 13:59:57 GMT
Organization: University of Kentucky, USA. -5 GMT

bd474@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Bill McDonald) writes:

#I was looking closely at an SKS the other day and wonder how the
#designer intended the cleaning rod to be used.  It's too short to go all the way
#through the barrel, but has screw threads on one end, as if it was
#supposed to be attached to another device/rod (perhaps a separate piece of
#field gear?) to make a full-length cleaning tool.
#Does anybody know how a soldier in the field made any good use of this
#apparently too-short rod?
#McD


  The threaded end is for the cleaning brush etc. It may be a tad short, 
  but one can still clean the barrel with the supplied rod.
From: weed@sweetpea.jsc.nasa.gov (daniel weed 283-4162)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: Recoil Formula
Date: 27 Jan 93 03:37:24 GMT



#
#        Well, I misplaced the formula for recoil and the boy wants a 
# Remington 7mm Magnum. Although I'd kinda like to have one, I'm semi-
# half-heartedly trying to talk him into a .270. I don't have anything in 
# comparable recoil except maybe an 870 3" mag. If someone could email the 
# formula for recoil I would appreciate it.


Bobby,

You'll probably get a bunch of different ways to measure recoil.
I think the best mathematical way is this:

Take the muzzle velocity of the bullet times the bullet weight, then
divide that by the weight of the gun.  Be sure the weight of the gun
and of the bullet are in the same units, either pounds or grains
(7000 grains = 1 pound).

The result is a velocity, in feet per second, called the Recoil Velocity.
If you were to suspend your rifle on the end of a long wire, like a
pendulum, then remotely fired the gun, the bullet would go one way, the
rifle would go the other, and what you have calculated is the velocity the
rifle would attain. (this has actually been done).

This of course, ignores many factors that affect _perceived_ recoil, such
as moving internal parts, the length of time over which the impulse
occurs, butt padding, sound, etc.  But it does provide a fairly good
relative measure of recoil.  It takes into account both the bullet
energy and the weight of the gun.

-- Dan



----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Daniel Weed                                       weed@sweetpea.jsc.nasa.gov
McDonnell Douglas Space Systems Co. - Houston
              "My comments are my own, not my employer's"
From: srinehar@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (Shawn L Rinehart)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: [Rifle] Floating a barrel?
Date: 26 Jan 93 01:51:03 GMT
Organization: The Ohio State University


     Howdy gun guys,

     Does anyone know of any good books or magazines that have articles about 
"floating" a barrel? I would just like to learn something about it and maybe 
check out my equipment. I will be using the Public Library so if you would send
me any titles that might be in there I would really appreciate it.

                                                      Thanks!!!
_____________________________________________________________________
| If you love something,    |  Shawn L. Rinehart                    |
| Let it go,                |  srinehar@magnusug.acs.ohio-state.edu |
| If it doesn't come back,  |  Ohio State Engineering               |
| Hunt it down and kill it. |                                       |
---------------------------------------------------------------------
From: rigg@adtaz.sps.mot.com (Dana Rigg)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re:  .223 Loads
Date: 22 Jan 93 23:40:29 GMT

-> Does anybody have reloading data for a Hornady .223 68 gr. BTHP
-> using 4820?  My Hornady manual does not cover this bullet.

Sorry, there was a typo in the above question.  The powder is
4320, not 4820.

Dana Rigg
Chandler, AZ
rigg@ssdt-tempe.sps.mot.com
From: justice@Panix.Com (Michael Justice)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: Home Invasion Prevention Tactics Wanted
Date: 23 Jan 93 21:50:07 GMT
Organization: Panix Public Access Internet & Unix, NYC

vojak@icebucket.stortek.com (Bill Vojak) writes:
##
## #Within the past week, there have been 5 cases of home invasion in the
## # Orlando, Florida area....I don't profess to be RAMBO. I would appreciate
## #*practical* solutions and tactical recommendations....
##
#
# Yikes!  My 5 shot .38 wouldn't quite cut it, even with 3 speedloaded
# handy.  This type of thing is one of the best arguments I can think
# of for allowing average people to own semi-auto handguns/rifles.

Whoa, folks.  Let's not forget that the mere PRESENCE of a gun helps
to deter criminals.  This is true even when they arrive in force.

Of course, your mileage may vary.  If the home invaders come in with
guns drawn, and you start shooting at them, they'll probably just
shoot you.  But maybe not.

#From old memory, not guaranteed to be 100% accurate:

Someone I met had to defend himself against a street gang a few years
ago.  He got out of his car, and quite suddenly found that he was
surrounded by a minimum of TWENTY gang members, who had been hiding
in and around the parking lot waiting specifically for him.  (He'd
prevented one from raping his daughter a couple of days before.)

He pulled his .38, fired three shots at the attempted-rapist, only
one of which hit, and the gang halted.  Nobody wanted to be second.

Needless to say, the police came by and arrested HIM for carrying
a concealed weapon, one reason being (according to witnesses) that
there was no way they could fit twenty gang members into their
patrol car.  BTW, the gang members who stayed were found armed
ONLY with clubs, knives, chains, and so on -- it's not known how
well they were searched, or whether they were searched at all,
or whether any had fled, or (if so) whether the ones who fled
were armed with anything heavier.  These were just the weapons
that were in view.

After a long court battle, a divorce, and lots of legal expenses,
not to mention permanently losing that gun, he got the court monkey
off his back.  I don't know whether he was allowed to keep his
Illinois gun card or not (or if he had one to begin with).  He
was not a happy person when I met him (a few months after the
courts had gotten through with him).

Still, "better to be judged by twelve than carried by six."

			-- Michael.
--
Michael A. Justice / "Hey, wait a minute!  You guys are CONSULTANTS!
justice@panix.com /   You're not supposed to insult me, you're supposed
NRA Life / ILA   /    to KISS MY BUTT!  What is WRONG with you people?!?"
ISRA            /                 -- Glenn, having a bad day
From: vtessier@vela.acs.oakland.edu (Vince Tessier)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: Calibre change kits?
Date: 26 Jan 93 05:00:59 GMT

(I need to have a little talk with my local newsadmin about (f)ollow
for this group.)

From: ems@michael.apple.com (E. Michael Smith)


  Now that I have a 1911A1 .45 ACP, I'm wondering what it would take to 
  shoot a different calibre in it.  Say, for example, .40 S&W?

  I figure a new barrel and magazine, and maybe a new recoil spring?
  Or is the .40 S&W so long that you can't adapt a .45 ACP frame?

I don't know about .40 S&W.  I don't recall having heard about anything
as a conversion in a 45.  On the other hand, ...

  How about .41 AE or 9mm ?

  Does anyone make such kits?  And do they cost more than a new gun ;-)

Yup yup.  But not exactly for your 45.  The Colt Gov't Model & Commanders
in 9mm or 38 Super can be converted for 41AE with a new barrel & mag (or
you can fiddle with an existing mag, but don't expect to use it for the
original calibre again; feed lips are funny).  The 9mm, 38 Super, and 41AE
all have the same base:  they use the same extractor and ejector, and hence
the same slide.  Look carefully from the rear at one of these slides and 
compare to a 45:  you'll see that the cuts for the ejector are different,
and the slides are *not* interchangable.

41AE conversion kits are sold by Action Arms, the importer of IMI products.
There also exists a conversion kit for the Browning HiPower, which I've 
had done.  It's just a drop in for the barrel;  I used a 9mm magazine
instead of buying one from AA, and it required work to make it feed 
properly.  Since you can't convert your 45 to 41AE, you might consider
the HIPower.
-- 
	Vince Tessier (vtessier@vela.acs.oakland.edu)
"Swearing is an art form.  You can express yourself much more
 directly, much more succinctly, with properly used curse words."
	-- HizzonerTheMayorOfTheFairCityOfDetroit, Coleman A. Young
From: lairdb@crash.cts.com
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Self defense hypothetical
Date: 26 Jan 93 01:51:48 GMT
Organization: "Well, a head on top, an arm on each side, two legs...."

In <9301221617.AA24455@sweetpea.jsc.nasa.gov> weed@sweetpea.jsc.nasa.gov (daniel weed 283-4162) writes:

#Michael Janeczko writes:
## Another point my father made that I guess makes sense is that when loading a
## clip  (doesn't apply in my case, at least not yet :-)  you should 
## "fingerprint-proof" your bullets.

#Excuse me but I don't quite follow this logic.  Are you saying that, in a 
#valid home defense situation, where a reasonable and prudent individual has 
#found his life or the life of his (her) family, to be in jeapordy, and 
#fires his gun in self defense, the individual should cover it up, even
#to the extent of "fingerprint-proofing" your bullets (brass)?

I would have to guess that the originator might mean a situation where
perhaps the act *was* self defense, but the being-armed was unlawful.
Suppose Our Protagonist is in D.C., and has chosen with full knowlege
of the law to own and carry a firearm (both unlawful in D.C.)  He is
attacked by a PCP crazed, strung-out, 6 foot 8 bodybuilder wielding
a blood spattered machete screaming "You're next!  Ah ha ha ha ha!" 
(let there be no ambiguity in our example.)  Our Protagonist draws,
says appropriate things, and finally fires.  It takes two A-zone hits
to stop the assailant.  It's dark, no one is about (except Our
Protagonist and Mr. Leaking-on-the-ground.)  Now what?

(As I wrote this, I got more and more curious about what people's
opinions are on this and similar: imagine any typical example situation
in which O.P. fires (returns fire?) such as a mugging, carjacking,
etc.  Is there a point or situation in which O.P. chooses to collect
his brass and vanish?)

(Disclaimers out the wazoo, of course....)

-- 
Laird P. Broadfield     lairdb@crash.cts.com    ...{ucsd, nosc}!crash!lairdb
Hi!  I'm a shareware signature!  Send $5 if you use me, send $10 for manual!
From: ems@michael.apple.com (E. Michael Smith)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: Handgun stopping power. The velocity myth
Date: 28 Jan 93 16:10:59 GMT
Organization: Circle 'C' Shellfish Ranch, Shores-of-the-Pacific, California

In article <19611@smoke.brl.mil> gwyn@smoke.brl.mil (Doug Gwyn) writes:
#
#In article <MAILQUEUE-101.930125134913.352@english.as.ua.edu> DHORTON@ENGLISH.AS.UA.EDU (David A. Horton) writes:
##Actually, to be more specific, I think we can think of it
##as a bullets momentum density (the momentum of a bullet divided by
##its frontal area), and not bullet "energy".
##Anyone have anything to add??
#
#(a) Velocity is a vector (i.e. directed) quantity as is momentum; what
#people really should be using the the magnitude of the momentum, or
#mass * speed.  (Speed is the magnitude of the velocity.)

Um, I, for one, think velocity is far more important than speed ...
If the bullet is doing MACH 2 away from me it isn't much threat ;-)

-- 

E. Michael Smith  ems@apple.COM

'Whatever you can do, or dream you can, begin it.  Boldness has
 genius, power and magic in it.'  -  Goethe

I am not responsible nor is anyone else.  Everything is disclaimed.
From: mfolenta@pica.army.mil
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: Recoil Formula
Date: 28 Jan 93 04:17:05 GMT

In article < weed@sweetpea.jsc.nasa.gov> daniel weed wrote:

# 
# You'll probably get a bunch of different ways to measure recoil.
# I think the best mathematical way is this:
# 
# Take the muzzle velocity of the bullet times the bullet weight, then
# divide that by the weight of the gun.  Be sure the weight of the gun
# and of the bullet are in the same units, either pounds or grains
# (7000 grains = 1 pound).
# 
# The result is a velocity, in feet per second, called the Recoil Velocity.
# If you were to suspend your rifle on the end of a long wire, like a
# pendulum, then remotely fired the gun, the bullet would go one way, the
# rifle would go the other, and what you have calculated is the velocity the
# rifle would attain. (this has actually been done).
# 
# This of course, ignores many factors that affect _perceived_ recoil, such
# as moving internal parts, the length of time over which the impulse
# occurs, butt padding, sound, etc.  But it does provide a fairly good
# relative measure of recoil.  It takes into account both the bullet
# energy and the weight of the gun.
# 
# -- Dan

     Not a bad way to approximate the effect of the recoil, but you really
 should include the mass/weight of the powder charge.  It adds a significant
 effect to the recoil (more powder, even at the same muzzle velocity, means
 more recoil _usually_).

     This approximation does ignore the "jet effect" of the propellent gases
 squirting out of the end of the barrel (and the counter-effect of a muzzle
 brake or compensator).

    And the perceived recoil can vary quite a bit!!


       ***** These are my opinions.  Get your own. :-) *****
      Michael Folenta          | U.S. Army ARDEC
   Future Weapons Branch       | Picatinny Arsenal, NJ 07806-5000
  email mfolenta@pica.army.mil | (201) 724-3880  [AV 880-3880]
From: archon@world.std.com (Timothy P Szczesuil)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Target .22 Recomendations
Date: 26 Jan 93 16:24:58 GMT
Organization: Anarchy


My SO and I are starting out with target .22s before moving on to
larger calibers.  We've taken the NRA Basic Pistol and developed a
fondness for one-handed shooting.  We are quite close to purchasing
a Smith & Wesson Model 422 (6 in. barrel) and a Mitchell Arms 
Sharpshooter Auto Pistol.  My cheap choice would be a Magnum Research
Mountain Eagle.  I would appriciate any information regarding these 
models or a recommendation of a good quality target .22 in the <$400 
price range.
-- 
			--Tim Szczesuil
	alias			(pronounced SEZ-u-il)
Dr. Archon, physicker, alchemist, inventor, eccentric
archon@world.std.com       :       uunet!world!archon
From: jmoyer@adobe.com (John Moyer)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: For Sale: Leupold 3.5-10X Scope, HK Mount
Date: 22 Jan 93 04:03:33 GMT
Organization: Adobe Systems Incorporated


For Sale:
   Leupold 3.5X - 10X Vari-X III Standard Police scope, $300
   ARMS scope mount for HK, $150

The scope:
   3.5 to 10X zoom.
   40mm objective.
   Multicoat 4.
   Duplex reticle.
   Matte black (no gold ring).
   Target style windage and elevation knobs.
   1/4 MOA adjustments.
   Simplified range estimating capability.
   Unused and in excellent condition.

The mount:
   Claw lock for all HK military style rifles (HK-91, HK-93,
   HK-94, HK-33, G3, MP5, SR9 ...).
   Quick detach, maintains zero when re-attached. 
   Universal top accepts both Weaver and NATO STANAG scopes & rings.
   See-thru, so iron sights still usable with scope attached.
   Same as sold by HK under their name (for $194!).
   Unused and in excellent condition.

Get both and I'll include a set of rings!

---
John Moyer          Adobe Systems, Mtn. View, CA          jmoyer@adobe.com
From: erudnick@pica.army.mil (FSAC-SID)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: Sacramento Armory price on 7.62X39 ammo
Date: 26 Jan 93 01:50:52 GMT


If you send a letter to Sacramento Armory, with the usual words for ammo
purchase (I certify... I am over 21, etc....) and CERTIFIED funds (a
postal money order is good) for the dealer price, they will send you
the ammo at the dealer price.

Not many people will turn down what is in effect cash dangled in front 
of their noses :)


Ed Rudnicki     erudnick@pica.army.mil     All disclaimers apply
Protect the Second Amendment - boycott Ruger products
Geordi: "...it's like the laws of physics went right out the
window." Q: "And why shouldn't they? They're so inconvenient."
From: osan@cbnewsb.cb.att.com (Mr. X)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: SIG Sauer P226: I now understand the cult
Date: 28 Jan 93 04:16:56 GMT
Organization: Twilight Zone

In article <1993Jan26.002153.22386@ttinews.tti.com> hollombe@polymath.tti.com (The Polymath) writes:
#In article <1993Jan22.022042.26338@netcom.com> pauly@netcom.com (Paul Yoshimune) writes:
#
#}... Apparently, they had a P226 there that lastest about
#}25,000 rounds, then peeled the frame rails clean off. ...
#
#}Upon calling SigArms, he was told that 25,000 rounds was not unreasonable for
#}the gun (!), and there was nothing they could do.  ...

	Eeeek!

#The latest issue of SIGARMS' magazine talks about a P226 that's had
#23,000+ rounds put through it with no cleaning or maintenance beyond
#lubing the slide rails (they were attempting to test it to destruction).
#Apparently it's still going strong, but maybe it's only got ~2,000
#rounds left to go.

	Well, a friend here in Freehold NJ has a 226 with over *40,000*
	rounds through it.  I pulled it apart a few weeks ago and there
	is NO visible wear on the rails!  I was pretty amazed.  The gun
	is pretty loose at this point, but he says it is as accurate as
	the day it came out of the box.  My 220 has about 39 thousand
	rounds to go before I get to that point.  A real chore, let me
	tell you :).

	-Andy V.
From: basiji@stein.u.washington.edu (David Basiji)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: Seagal's Firearms handling (was: Re: Got One! (Spring. Arm. 1911-A1))
Date: 22 Jan 93 23:40:26 GMT
Organization: University of Washington

upchrch!joel@peora.sdc.ccur.com (Joel Upchurch  ) writes:

#The best all time movie as far as correct firearms handling is
#"Tremors". If you haven't seen it, check it out; especially the rec
#room scene.

Agreed; good movie, too. The only problem I saw was that when he shot
those _huge_ "elephant" loads, there was virtually no kick from the rifle.

David Basiji
UW Bioengineering
NeRD #3762
From: justice@Panix.Com (Michael Justice)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: Is Winchester Made in USA?
Date: 22 Jan 93 03:59:32 GMT
Organization: Panix Public Access Internet & Unix, NYC

In <9301201453.AA00704@zippy.cs.UMD.EDU> C08926RC@WUVMD.Wustl.Edu (Rob) asks:
#FWIW, what major American gun companies are truely American?  Ruger,
#Colt, what else?

American Derringer, from what I have been told, is 100% Made in USA.

			-- Michael.
-- 
Michael A. Justice / Will hack X11 for peanuts (stolen, with apologies).
justice@panix.com /  "It's barbaric, but hey! it's home!" -- "Aladdin"
From: cstockwe@orion.oac.uci.edu (Craig Stockwell)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: .44 Magnum Desert Eagle info request
Date: 23 Jan 93 21:50:34 GMT

Well, I have a .44 mag Desert Eagle ... I *do* like it, haven't gone boar

hunting (yet), but it's awfully fun to use on paper up to 50 meters
(haven't shot silhouette at 100 or 200, yet).

Comment: If you limp-wrist it, it won't cycle.

Comment: If you don't clean it often (100-200 rounds, depending on type), 
	 it won't cycle.

Given those, I like my DE quite a lot. I even went so far as to get a laser sight (under bbl) and Trijicon night sights. I guess I'm ready for evening pig hunting, or just trolling in a nasty area of town ...

Oh, yeah, it *is* possible to use a standard order nylon holster even with the laser sights ... but I'll likely break down and get some custom leather ...

		M. Craig Stockwell
		  President,
		    C.I. Well-Regulated Militia
From: bhmd1464@altair.selu.edu
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: Quigley, anyone?
Date: 22 Jan 93 23:40:07 GMT
Organization: Southeastern Louisiana University

In article <C18BAG.MEy@srgenprp.sr.hp.com>, jeffc@sad.hp.com (Jeff Crowell) writes:
# I'm tryng to find a source for a Sharps replica, preferably in one of the
# larger calibers 8-).  I've checked out the Shiloh and C.Sharps repro's,
# and they look like everything I want... it's just that Shiloh currently
# reports a 33-month wait, and C.Sharps an 18-month wait (yow!).
# 
# Anyone have one for sale?  I'd prefer something in the 45-110 or 45-120
# cartridge.

How does the 45-110 compare to the 460 wby magnum?

Brian Acosta
From: jamaass@bluemoon.use.com (Jeffrey A. Maass)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: Why ?
Date: 27 Jan 93 03:38:21 GMT
Organization: Blue Moon BBS ((614) 868-998[024])

mtxinu!sybase.sybase.com!thorick@ucbvax.Berkeley.EDU (Thorick Chow) writes:

# 
# Hi all...
# 
# I have a question that maybe someone can answer...
# 
# WHy is it that many pistol target shooters put their non-shooting
# hand in their pockets ?
# 
# I have often puzzled over this...  While informal Bullseye is
# a hobby kind of thing for me, I still have an undercurrent of
# 'self-defense' in my practice.. so naturally I wouldn't
# be caught dead (so to speak) with one hand in my pocket.
# 


It prevents the unused arm from swinging, which would unsteady the
entire body. By "locking" the off-arm into a fixed position, the hold
is better.


Jeff Maass                   Amateur Radio: K8ND (@ W8CQK)
Powell OH (NW of Columbus)         Netmail: jamaass@bluemoon.uucp
From: donb@igor.tamri.com (Don Baldwin)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: Is the Ram-Line .22 pistol worth considering?
Date: 22 Jan 93 23:41:34 GMT
Organization: TOSHIBA America MRI, South San Francisco, CA

In article <viking.727597101@ponderous.cc.iastate.edu> viking@iastate.edu
(Dan Sorenson) writes:
##I took a look at a Ram-Line Extractor target model the other day, and
##it seems to be what I'm looking for - a cheap, durable, reliable plinker.
#
#	Answer these three questions:
#1) is it fun to shoot?
#2) does it fit your budget (well, within reason, anyway)?
#3) will you still like it in the morning?
#
#	If you can answer "yes" to all three, buy it.  You can always
#buy that custom 1911 next year if you want to impress people at the
#range with your guns and not your smile of youthful glee.  As is
#customary, I'd tell you to buy them all, but I know cash isn't always
#freely available for these things.
#
#	Can anybody poke a hole in my 3-question justification above?

No holes, just a nit.  You forgot to add:
4) Are there any other guns that are similar but different/interesting
   enough that I should consider getting them as well?

:) :)

   don
From: dave.williams@chaos.lrk.ar.us (Dave Williams)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: Home invasions
Date: 28 Jan 93 16:09:32 GMT
Organization: The Courts of Chaos * 501-985-0059 * Public Access Usenet


->                                                    * * * * * /
->                      .<                             * * * * /
-> Door:    .....   or   .<                             * * * /
-> ^^^^^         .<                                     X * * X
->                                                       * */
-> Peep/loop hole(s):  X                                 | * |
->                                                       |* *|
->                                                       |.X.|
-> Walls:  --------------                                 ^^^
-> Angled walls:       or      /


 Rose trellises, shrubs, "ornamental" iron or wood fencing, etc. would
work.  However, so would a good, stout, locked door.

 If you go in and out often or have rugrats you're still stuck, though.
Of course, you *could* make the children crawl through a 12x12 doggie
door, but then you'd have laundry problems.