HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: steven@spxtech.qc.ca (Steven C. Potter)
Newsgroups: can.politics
Subject: Re: Minority education rights (was: Radio stations in Quebec,...)
Date: 14 Aug 92 18:57:06 GMT
Organization: Securiplex Technologies Inc., Montreal, Canada
X-Bytes: 2432


 [I am sorry for jumping on this one but there is an important point here
  that needs to be made.]

From article <1382@newsserver.cs.uwindsor.ca>, by hlynka@server.uwindsor.ca
 Myron Hlynka mentions:-

> [stuff skipped]
>
> .................................................. It is curious
> that Manitoba does not have the power to make its own rules 
> regarding language, but must get them approved by the Federal 
> government, where one can be sure that Quebec will not allow Manitoba 
> to remove any French provisions, regardless of the proportion of 
> French Manitobans. 

  A lot of people, Quebec nationalists in particular, make references 
  to the Quebec government as some defender of the oppressed French
  minorities in ROC.

  This is not the case. For example ...

  The Quebec government intervened in a Supreme Court case regarding
  the minority education rights of a group of Alberta francophone
  parents. (The Mahe case - S.C.R. decision rendered March 15th, 1990)

  The Quebec government argued !!!AGAINST!!! the Alberta government
  being required to abide by the requirements of the Can. Chrtr. of
  Rts. & Frdms. - that is, argued AGAINST the provincial government of
  Alberta being required to provide schooling for those minority
  language children.

  Let nobody pretend that the Quebec government is doing anything for
  the francophones in ROC!

  The Quebec government has been repeatedly asked to allow English
  speaking children access to English schools in Quebec;
  The Quebec Government has made a number of commitments to provide
  English schooling for English speaking children;
  Rene Levesque signed with other first ministers an agreement that
  included allowing minority language schooling for ALL minority
  language children;
  The Quebec Liberal party promised to allow ALL children of English
  mother tongue access to English schools in Quebec;
  The Chambers' Task Force report's number one recommendation was
  that English schools should be made available to ALL English
  speaking children in Quebec;
  The Quebec government STILL HAS NOT FULFILLED ITS OBLIGATIONS!

-- 
  ///==================================================================\\\
  ||| Steve Potter:         steven%spxtech@CAM.ORG                     |||
  ||| Expertise/Experience: Computer Systems Engineering / Real Ale /  |||
  |||                       Politics in Education in Quebec            |||
Xref: sparky can.politics:6057 soc.culture.canada:5919
From: thood@corvus.matrox.com (Thomas Hood)
Newsgroups: can.politics,soc.culture.canada
Subject: Re: We are all foreigners, save the NATIVE Aboriginal Canadians!!
Date: 20 Aug 92 14:28:10 GMT
Organization: Matrox Ltd.

kmcvay@oneb.almanac.bc.ca (Ken Mcvay) writes:

>Bourassa holds that Canada was the product of "two founding nations," while
>Mr. Getty's Canada is an equal federation of member states. [...]
>Personally, I hold with the Alberta view, which seeks greater equality.

As Clyde Wells has said, there are three types of "equality" being considered:

Equality of the founding races  -->  Francophones are one of two (three?)
Equality of provinces           -->  Quebec is one of ten
Equality of individuals         -->  Quebec is one of four

Bourassa is concentrating on E.F.R. in order to reinforce the status
of French Canada, most of which is concentrated in Quebec.  He wants Quebec
to be one of two.

Getty is concentrating on E.P. in order to give more power to regions
other than Ontario and Quebec.  He wants Quebec to be one of ten.

The status quo is based mostly upon E.I. which makes Quebec one of four.
It is a balance between the E.F.R. and E.P.  Quebec has fewer seats
than it should have on a strictly rep-by-pop basis, but Quebec has,
in practice, a share of power in Ottawa that exceeds its share of
Commons seats.

I will pursue this topic in the thread "The tentative agreement of August 19th." 

--
Thomas Hood                                                    thood@matrox.com
Newsgroups: can.politics,soc.culture.canada
From: CZ94 <CZ94@MUSICA.MCGILL.CA>
Subject: RE: We are all foreigners, save the NATIVE Aboriginal Canadians!
Organization: McGill University
Date: Wed, 19 Aug 1992 17:17:59 GMT

In article <wL7qPB2w165w@ersys.edmonton.ab.ca> yadallee@ersys.edmonton.ab.ca (Dave Shariff Yadallee) writes:
>Peter Gogolek refers to the head of state of this country as "foreign".
>
>I would likle to ask and for net Canadians to consider the following:
>
>  Aren't you from a foreign ancestory?
>
>This is something the USers fail to see.  North America was inhabited by
>Aboriginals before the arrival of the Europeans!!
>
>Let's admit it,  we are ALL foreigners here, except the Aboriginals.
>
Nonsense.  My ancestors were foreigners, but I'm not.  I am a native
Canadian.  I'm not an aboriginal/indigenous/Amerindian/First Nations
person, but I am a native, because I was born here.  That's what
native means.

I am not my ancestors.  Ovide Mercredi is not his ancestors.  He
was born here, so was I.  We're both natives.

I'm not an anthropolgist, but my understanding is that the human
species originated in East Africa.  Anyone living elsewhere on the
planet is the descendent of immigrants, including the aboriginal
people of the Americas.

Tom Box
CZ94@MUSICA.MCGILL.CA

Newsgroups: can.politics,soc.culture.canada
From: dave@lsuc.on.ca (David Sherman)
Subject: Re: Income tax rate in Canada?
Organization: The Law Society of Upper Canada
Distribution: na
Date: Sun, 16 Aug 92 08:40:05 GMT

jstewart@alfred.carleton.ca (John Stewart) writes:
>Of course the major inconsistency in UIC's claim to be an insurance scheme
>is that the amount you pay is in no way related to the probability that you
>will ever have to make a benefit claim.

Well, that's not entirely true.  First of all, you don't pay if
you aren't qualifying for benefits at the same time.  I'm self-employed,
I don't pay UIC, and I don't qualify for UIC benefits.  So there's a
correlation.

Second, the claims you can make are, to some extent, related to
the UIC premiums you've paid over the past period of time.
If you haven't had insurable earnings (== paid premiums) for
X weeks, you can't collect.

I don't disagree with the bulk of what you said in your article, however.

David Sherman
From: hlynka@server.uwindsor.ca (Myron Hlynka)
Newsgroups: can.politics
Subject: Re: Radio stations in Quebec, Western Canada
Date: 13 Aug 1992 01:32:23 GMT
Organization: University of Windsor, Ontario, Canada

In response to Myron Hlynka's comments on the unfairness of the 
federal government in funding French radio in Winnipeg and Edmonton
and providing no funding for the larger Ukrainian Canadian and
German Canadian communities, 
(Richard Loken) writes:

>
>Cry me a river.  French and English are official languages, Ukrainian and
>German are not.  The various levels of government spend much too much money
>funding every homesick ethnic splinter in existence already.  
>We need federally funded ethnic radio stations like we need small pox.
>
>You want to listen to German broadcasting then YOU can pay for it.  
>And no, I am not English or French but my forefathers came here to 
>be Canadian not whatever it was that they were before they got here. If 
>the home country was so great they would have stayed there.
>

I think you misunderstood me. I was not advocating federal funding of 
Ukrainian langauge and German language radio and TV. I think that the 
Federal government should not fund French language radio in Winnipeg
and Edmonton considering how small an audience is there for the 
programming and considering how unfair it is to the other ethnic
groups.

You want French langauage in Edmonton. If you want French language
radio and TV in Edmonton, then YOU can pay for it. 

When my forefathers came to Canada, it was not officially bilingual.
In fact, I must have missed the referendum that made Canada bilingual,
with French and English as first class and everyone else as 
second class. What year was that referendum again??

                                         Myron
From: beaurega@ireq.hydro.qc.ca (Denis Beauregard)
Newsgroups: can.politics
Subject: Re: "F/E" versus "Bienvenue/Welcome": Update
Date: 17 Aug 92 14:59:41 GMT
Organization: Institut de recherche d'Hydro-Quebec, Varennes, Canada

In article <1992Aug16.124308.7895@jarvis.csri.toronto.edu> ematias@dgp.toronto.edu (Edgar Matias) writes:
>
>This is *very* interesting.  So, if I understand correctly, it would be
>*legal* to have a sign that said (in French) in BIG letters "F*CK THE 
>LANGUAGE LAWS" with the word "welcome" (in many languages) written in _small_
>letters underneath?
>
>Hm...  Maybe it's a good thing I don't live in Quebec...  ;-)
Reciprocally...
>
>Edgar

This would not be legal.  The small letters message shall be the same.
Moreover, maybe there is something againt hate signs.

-- 
  \_\    Denis Beauregard  *  internet:beaurega@ireq.hydro.qc.ca
 /   \   Genealogiste officiel : Beauregard/Jarret/Jarest/Vincent
J   __>  Barthelemy Jarret (1471) -> Andre Jarret, sieur de Beauregard (1665)
\_.-===   -> Denis Beauregard (1992)                  Opinions ? Et pis non !
From: steven@spxtech.qc.ca (Steve Potter)
Newsgroups: can.politics
Subject: Access to English schools in Quebec: Lobby effort
Date: 19 Aug 92 02:24:45 GMT
Organization: Securiplex Technologies Inc., Montreal, Canada
X-Bytes: 1663


   A concerted lobbying effort is going to be required in the
   early spring of next year.

   The access to English schools for ALL English-speaking children
   issue in Quebec must be dealt with when Bill 178/101 come up for
   debate next spring/summer.

   Several groups are expected to increase their lobbying efforts
   at the appropriate time.

   Alliance Quebec, Equality Party, Quebec Home & Schools Federation
   are a few of them.

   I don't expect any significant help from the Quebec Human Rights
   Commission (or League - whatever it's called), The Office of the
   Commissioner of Official Languages, or (surprisingly) from the 
   Canadian Civil Liberties Association (who claim to be too busy
   with other matters of higher priority).

   I don't expect any help from the Protestant School Board of Greater
   Montreal either!

   I expect resistance from the usual misguided, misinformed, 
   intolerant quarters.

   Anyone who wants to help can contact the groups mentioned above,
   start writing to Quebec government reps, or contact me.

   I would especially like to hear from any families who have been or
   are likely to be denied access to English schools in Quebec.

   We have established a rather informal lobby group to work on
   this for ourselves and others in a similar position.

   There *IS* strength in numbers.

-- 
  ///==================================================================\\\
  ||| Steve Potter:         steven%spxtech@CAM.ORG                     |||
  ||| Expertise/Experience: Computer Systems Engineering / Real Ale /  |||
  |||                       Politics in Education in Quebec            |||
From: steven@spxtech.qc.ca (Steve Potter)
Newsgroups: can.politics
Subject: Re: 1980 referendum (was: That pathetic "includes Quebec" slogan.)
Date: 18 Aug 92 16:18:42 GMT
Organization: Securiplex Technologies Inc., Montreal, Canada
X-Bytes: 818

From article <Bt6Hyy.FGv@ireq.hydro.qc.ca>, by beaurega@ireq.hydro.qc.ca
 Denis Beauregard writes:-

>
> Actually, in 1980, the question was not "Do you want to be part of Canada"
> but do you want a new kind of federal deal (in a very long sentence).
> And the No party was said that a No would give anyway a new deal!
> 

  and the question was concocted by the same twisted brain that was
  responsible for Bill 101 and the denial of access to English schools
  for English children in Quebec: Camille Laurin!

-- 
  ///==================================================================\\\
  ||| Steve Potter:         steven%spxtech@CAM.ORG                     |||
  ||| Expertise/Experience: Computer Systems Engineering / Real Ale /  |||
  |||                       Politics in Education in Quebec            |||
Xref: sparky can.politics:5932 soc.culture.canada:5757
From: grayt@Software.Mitel.COM (Tom Gray)
Newsgroups: can.politics,soc.culture.canada
Subject: Re: History of North America  Re: REpublicanisn vs. Monarchists (Was Re: Beauregard vs. Yadallee)
Date: 14 Aug 92 12:38:09 GMT
Organization: Mitel. Kanata (Ontario). Canada.


In article <SMITH.92Aug12114210@minerva.harvard.edu> smith@minerva.harvard.edu (Steven Smith) writes:
>c291042@cs.UAlberta.CA (David Yadallee) writes:
>
>> smith@gramian.harvard.edu (Steven Smith) writes:
>
>
>Furthermore, why should a Canadian be so bent out of shape about the
>Monroe Doctrine anyway?  England _wanted_ the U.S. to issue a similar
>statement _with_ them to keep the Russians at bay in Alaska and the
>Spaniards out of the newly independent countries that had recently
>gained their independence from Spain.  Only after Secretary of State
>John Q. Adams derided a joint statement as ``America acting as a
>skiff behind the British man-of-war'' (or words to that effect) did
>President Monroe issue an independent policy.  Nevertheless, the
>spirit of this policy was in Canada's interest.

I suppose that the principle of Mainifest Destiny, the dispute over the
Oregon teritory, American support of the Fenian raids, the American
invasion of Canada in 1812 and general American  exapnsionism did
something to make Canadians uneasy about the altruism of American
policy in the Americas.

I grew up along the St Lawrence River. I drive by the site of Windmill
point frequently (a place where an American supported raid was defeated
by the Canadian militia). I see a major 19th century fortress designed
to protect the entrance to the canal bypassing the St. Lawrence to prevent
American blockades of Canadian supply in case of war. I reside in Ottawa
which was selected as the capital because it was distant from the American
border and therefore safer from invasion or American sanctioned raids.

Cnadians such as W. L. Mackenzie and MacDonald did issue statements that
admired American democracy. However they chose another way. Canadian
society did have the option of chosing the continentalist way. It
was very popular in the 1870's. However they made a choice and it was not
to be a colony either of the British or the Americans.



Remember the General!


-- 
i.sinature
Newsgroups: can.politics,soc.culture.canada
From: golchowy@alchemy.chem.utoronto.ca (Gerald Olchowy)
Subject: Re: We are all foreigners, save the NATIVE Aboriginal Canadians!!
Organization: University of Toronto Chemistry Department
Date: Fri, 21 Aug 1992 00:04:47 GMT

In article <1992Aug20.142810.1354@pandora.matrox.com> thood@corvus.matrox.com (Thomas Hood) writes:
>
>Getty is concentrating on E.P. in order to give more power to regions
>other than Ontario and Quebec.  He wants Quebec to be one of ten.
>

But he has made Quebec permanently no worse than 1 of 4 and Alberta
permanently underrepresented in the Commons, the Senate, and the
Supreme Court.

Dan Quayle can't spell...Don Getty and Mike Harcourt can't add!

Gerald
Newsgroups: can.politics,soc.culture.canada
From: robinc@bnr.ca (Robin Collins)
Subject: Re: We are all foreigners [ ... ]
Organization: Bell-Northern Research Ltd., Ottawa, Canada
Date: Fri, 21 Aug 92 20:49:31 GMT

In article <Bt8JtE.G98@gpu.utcs.utoronto.ca> pkern@rodent.utcs.utoronto.ca (pkern) writes:
>
>Hmmm, a new meaning for "African American" ... ?


Yes in fact the only legitimate use of the term African-American means either
someone born in Africa, immigrant to America or:

If descendant from someone born in Africa, then 
we are ALL African-American.

Any other use of the term, it would seem to me, is racist. How many
people seem to think that A-American means someone with black skin?
How silly.

Frank.


Newsgroups: can.politics,soc.culture.canada
From: wing@canada.ceo.dg.com (Brian Wing)
Subject: Re: Income tax rate in Canada?
Date: Thu, 13 Aug 92 18:36:34 GMT
Distribution: na
Organization: Data General (Canada) Inc.

hlin@cbnewsi.cb.att.com (hua.t.lin) writes:
: 
: Hello, people:
: Someone just told me that for a Canadian making about $60,000 gross
: will pay about 54% on tax on the entire income. Is that true? In
: comparison, a person in U.S. with that income are taxed at a top
: rate of 28%, and take home about 2/3 of gross. What is the truth
: of take-home/gross pay up north? Thanks in advance,

Well, that's not all INCOME tax.  There's marginal income tax rates,
but I don't have them handy (by the time you get my tardy post, 
others will have likely posted them).  From a personal point of view, I'm 
not far from $60,000 gross and according to my last pay stub, 
my take-home's about 65% of gross.  That's just here in B.C. -
it varies from province to province.
However, when you add in sales taxes, service taxes, city taxes, 
real estate property taxes, hidden taxes, taxes on taxes and so on, 
I likely pay over 54% on my entire income on taxes - it's just not all
specifically INCOME tax.  I reckon if I never bought anything,
paid for any services, or owned anything, I could keep more of my 65% :-)
-- 
Brian Wing                         Software Support Critter
Data General (Canada) Inc.
130-13151 Vanier Pl., Richmond     dotdot: brian_wing@canada.ceo.dg.com
B.C., Canada V6V 2J2               "Hello?": +1 604 273 5100
Newsgroups: can.politics
From: clamen@CS.CMU.EDU (Stewart Clamen)
Subject: Re: 1980 referendum (was: That pathetic "includes Quebec" slogan.)
Organization: School of Computer Science, Carnegie Mellon University
	<1992Aug18.121842.23600@spxtech.qc.ca>
Reply-To: clamen+@CS.CMU.EDU
Date: Wed, 19 Aug 1992 02:46:11 GMT
X-Posted-From: byron.sp.cs.cmu.edu
X-Posted-Through: sol.ctr.columbia.edu

In article <1992Aug18.121842.23600@spxtech.qc.ca> steven@spxtech.qc.ca (Steve Potter) writes:

   From article <Bt6Hyy.FGv@ireq.hydro.qc.ca>, by beaurega@ireq.hydro.qc.ca
    Denis Beauregard writes:-

   >
   > Actually, in 1980, the question was not "Do you want to be part of Canada"
   > but do you want a new kind of federal deal (in a very long sentence).
   > And the No party was said that a No would give anyway a new deal!
   > 

     and the question was concocted by the same twisted brain that was
     responsible for Bill 101 and the denial of access to English schools
     for English children in Quebec: Camille Laurin!

He did do a good job of "shocking us", though didn't he?  The question
is, can we survive the "treatment"?

--
Stewart M. Clamen			Internet:    clamen@cs.cmu.edu
School of Computer Science		UUCP: 	     uunet!"clamen@cs.cmu.edu"
Carnegie Mellon University		Phone: 	     +1 412 268 2145
5000 Forbes Avenue			Fax:	     +1 412 268 5739
Pittsburgh, PA 15213-3890, USA
From: warkenti@CAE.Mitel.Com (BJ Warkentin)
Newsgroups: can.politics
Subject: Re: Labatts/Molsons
Date: 17 Aug 92 18:15:43 GMT
Distribution: can
Organization: MITEL, Kanata, Ontario, Canada
In-reply-to: chris.davis@rose.com's message of 15 Aug 92 17:19:36 GMT

chris davis writes:
   P(> 
   P(> (Really, why would anyone drink a beer whose only qualities they feel safe in
   P(> advertising are the bodies of the models and the fact that you should drink it
   P(> cold. Sheesh.)
   P(> 
   I may have missed the point of this statement, but advertising wise, 
   this is all they are legally allowed to show.

Things like taste, ingredients, process, tradition, aging... come to
mind as "selling" points. Of course the average Canadian beer drinker,
who insists on drinking the stuff at 34 F, probably cares more about
the trendiness of his/her brand of choice than the taste and assumably
the movers and shakers in the corporate brewing industry understand
this. The biggies are out to make great money, not great beer... The
end result is that we get advertising crap that shows lotsa flesh or
perhaps goes the sophisticated route and blathers on about "cold
filtered" or a light beer with three type of "malt" (I forget their
word but the magic three are probably rice, corn sugar and <gasp> a
teeny tiny bit of real malt)

The solution: - buy from micro breweries
              - brew your own
              - buy imported 

If enough people and hence buying power boycotted the biggies, their
offerings would change. Simple supply and demand.

BJ...warkenti@CAE.Mitel.Com    |   XJ650K and DoD#0255
Kanata, Ontario, Canada        |   I want a new toy...
I really didn't mean it quite that way, or did I :->
Newsgroups: can.politics,soc.culture.canada
From: clamen@CS.CMU.EDU (Stewart Clamen)
Subject: Re: "F/E" versus "Bienvenue/Welcome": Update
Organization: School of Computer Science, Carnegie Mellon University
Reply-To: clamen+@CS.CMU.EDU
Date: Sun, 16 Aug 1992 12:23:17 GMT
X-Posted-From: byron.sp.cs.cmu.edu
X-Posted-Through: sol.ctr.columbia.edu

In article <1992Aug12.231921.15668@spxtech.qc.ca> steven@spxtech.qc.ca (Steven C. Potter) writes:

     New Update: Quebec Gov.'s "Welcome" message to tourists is in
     no less than 9 languages!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

     Harry Schick (Viennese pastry shop in Pt. Claire) is being
     prosecuted for having multilingual "Welcome" on his windows.

     Apparently, so long as the "principle" message is in French
     only, you can put whatever you like!   

     Anyone care to try to explain this stupid law now?

By explain I hope you don't mean justify.

Here is the probable explanation.  The law says that the French part
of an outdoor sign must predominate.  If French is included with nine
other languages, it most probably does not occupy the majority
position on the sign (just plurality).


--
Stewart M. Clamen			Internet:    clamen@cs.cmu.edu
School of Computer Science		UUCP: 	     uunet!"clamen@cs.cmu.edu"
Carnegie Mellon University		Phone: 	     +1 412 268 2145
5000 Forbes Avenue			Fax:	     +1 412 268 5739
Pittsburgh, PA 15213-3890, USA
Newsgroups: can.politics,soc.culture.canada
From: viking@bnr.ca (Harold Henrikson)
Subject: Re: Absolute Madness...
Reply-To: viking@bmerh66.bnr.ca
Organization: BNR Ottawa, Fibre Systems Development
Distribution: can
Date: Thu, 20 Aug 92 13:13:16 GMT

I agree its madness.

compromise (noun, general meaning) : process by which 2 sides to a dispute come to an
                                     agreement which is in between the 2 sides' positions

compromise (noun, Canadian Fed meaning) : process by which 9 out of 10 sides come to an
                                          agreement which is somewhere in between the extreme
                                          positions and then is supplanted after the fact by
                                          Quebec's demands and backed by the Feds

What a bunch of gutless wonders TROC has for premiers.
--
Harold Henriksen                    Bell-Northern Research
email: viking@bmerh694.bnr.ca       Ottawa,Ontario,Canada 

Pillaging and plundering were more fun than programming!
(Opinions are not my employer's and sometimes not mine)
Newsgroups: can.politics,soc.culture.canada