From: europa@cbnewsh.cb.att.com (r.j.capik)
Subject: Re: Gymnastics: Instant Replay for Judging
Organization: AT&T
Distribution: usa
Date: Thu, 13 Aug 1992 17:19:11 GMT
Summary: Gymnastics and other judging stuff
Keywords: gymnastics, instant replay

In article <1992Aug10.115718.28864@ms.uky.edu>, morgan@ms.uky.edu (Wes Morgan) writes:

> One *major* problem with 'judged' events is that the judges are virtually
> required to keep the scores low for the first X contestants.  How many times
> did we see wonderful routines receive (relatively) low scores at the outset?
> One Romanian gymnast performed a *beautiful* vault, only to receive the
> relatively low score of 9.525 (or something like that).  

I don't believe that the judges are "virtually required" to keep the first
scores low. (that they in fact do keep their first scores low is another
story) Yes, there must be room at the top, but if the first performance
was the best in the meet then everyone else should score below that level.
Now, if the driving force here is that people (the public, the media, the
coaches, the parents... ) want to see 10.0s, then the answer is to normalize
all scores. The first score (ie: 9.325) is normalized to it self as a ten.
The next score if higher (ie: 9.475) will become the new ten, if lower it
will be normalized to the first score.
Thus: 10.0(9.325), 10.0(9.475);9.842(9.325) etc. )
There are some details to work out such as: do we normalize each
raw score or just the composit; how will this effect the statistics;
etc.

Then there is the other serious question; What is the point of the score?
Are we ranking the quality of the performance, or are we assigning a
value to the "level of compliance" with the rules as currently written?

Also, the rules do need to be reviewed and adjusted from time to time.
Stuff changes...

> 
> I'd like to see a few changes made:
> 
>   - The judges should have access to instant replay before scoring.

...and the eliminations take 4 days, the finals take 14 hours, and
there is no one in the stands, all the sponsors have fled, but the
commentators just keep talking and talking and talking... like an
energizer bunny.
Also, zeroing in on the hop at the end is more an artifact of the
commentators (Ohhhh, she fell right in front of the judges... )
than anything else. Believe me, the judges watch ALL of the event.
Though it sure "looked" like landing deductions got more than their
proper weight. But then, who am I to say. I'm not a gymnastics
judge.

>   - The judges in a given event should NOT represent the country of
>        a contestant (If an American is in the final, there should be
>        no American judges; no Finn should judge a Finn, etc.).

This one is just too far out in left field to address.
But, to put a perspective on it: I needed to staff about 250 judge-days
last season. I was only able to provide ~190 judge-days. There
are no professional judges in amateur sports. For some of us our
real world jobs must come first.

>   - The scores have become far too high; I saw many efforts which
>     received inflated scores (Goutsou and Miller really benefitted
>        from the 'superstar' factor)

As above, the scores are not too high as much as the head room is too 
small. Sad to say, it looks like this has become a judges game of
'how close can we come to giving the winner a 10'.

>   - Coordinated medical care.  Several nations have swapped athletes
>        at the last moment due to 'injury'.  As I understand it, the IOC
>     does not have any say in this matter; the team doctor's word is
>        law.  The Soviet Union (later EUN) has used this technique in 
>        numerous meets; Goutsou's inclusion in the all-around was the
>        most recent example.

This is not a judging issue, but I like the idea of NO substitutions.
If an athlete is injured then the finals will be one person short.

>   - Interpreters at EVERY judged event.  If a national federation
>        sends an official to the Olympics, they should also send an 
>        interpreter.  The language barrier reared its head in several
>        events (synchronized swimming, decathlon, volleyball, boxing).
>     Why not use the same "official" languages as the United Nations,
>     i.e. English/French/Spanish/Chinese/Russian?

EVERY judged event? At ALL levels? I think not!

>>Ron Capik  from: AT&T Bell Labs, New Jersey   via: europa@cbnewsh.att.com
>>(an international judge)
> 
> Wow! What field do you adjudicate? What international events have you judged?
> 

First off, with the exception of the Americas Cup, very few sporting 
events are adjudicated.   :-)
I'm a freestyle skiing judge. Currently I am judges chairman for the
eastern United States. Judging takes a lot of time, so I have not pushed
for international assignments. I'd rather have a house and a job than
jump on the World Cup circuit. I've worked a few domestic World Cups, and
quite a few NorAm events, some nationals and many, many regional events.

Ron Capik  AT&T Bell Labs, Holmdel NJ    via: europa@cbnewsh.att.com
[Note: I use the Dan Quayle spelle checker ]
Newsgroups: rec.sport.misc