From: KARLIN@BNLCL6.BNL.GOV (P.L. Cowan)
Subject: Re: Benefits of slavery to non-slaveholders (was a fresh sta
Organization: BROOKHAVEN NATIONAL LABORATORY
Date: Sat, 22 Aug 1992 14:00:02 GMT
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In <1992Aug21.080751.1073@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu> pdunn@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu writes:

: In article <1992Aug20.233912.17855@cco.caltech.edu> morphy@cco.caltech.edu (Jon
: es Maxime Murphy) writes:
: >KARLIN@BNLCL6.BNL.GOV (P.L. Cowan) writes:
: >
: >>Let me ask you to read that sentence one more time in the context of the
: >>whole paragraph. If you want to equate the cause of the Southern
: >>aristocrats (that directly benefited from slavery) with those of
: >>Hitler, I for one will not argue with you. However, I explicitly was
: >>discussing the motivations of the NON-SLAVE-HOLDING Southerners. It is
: >>important to remember that something like 80% of the slaves in the US
: >>were held on only 2000 big plantations. These 2000 plantation owners
: >>held disproportionate power in the "putative democracy", just as big
: >>money has disproportionate power today. The vast majority of white
: >>southerners held no slaves.
: 
: >Yet they derived economic and psychological comfort from slavery. They were
: >insulated from a large group of economic competitors, and enjoyed cheap goods
: >produced from their unpaid labour. No matter how miserable their condition,
: >they could, and did, take pleasure in the fact that the Africans were far
: >more degraded.
: 
: I agree with Jones on the point that non-slaveowning 
: southern whites gained psychological comfort from slavery.  
: ... [much good stuff deleted] ...

Thank you for your excellent post. The original point that I was trying to make
was that equating the motivations the majority of Southerners with Hitler's
(or the Nazis's) is inappropriate. Perhaps I should have gone on to make the
analogy that the Southerners were duped (as P. Dunn points out), just as the
German populas was. The difference seems to be that after losing their
respective wars, the South (as a whole) remained racist (probably more so) in
the immediate aftermath, while the German's (at least) professed guilt for 
what happened.

: There is a
: entry in Mary Chestnut's diary in which she describes watching a play about a
: slave revolt (the Sepoy Rebellion?) and asks herself how much longer the South
: could exist without such an event occuring on a massive scale.

Mary Chestnut hardly qualified as a non-slave-holding Southerner.

: One 
: southerner recognized this in the 1850's.  His name was Hinton Rowan Helper, 
: and in a book entitled -Impending Crisis in the South- he stated almost exactly 
: the same things as I have.  The planter elite severely censored this book, of 
: course.
: 

I have read that selling his book in some states was a capital offense. Does
anyone know whether this was literally true (i.e. did State laws exist in
violation of the 1st Amendment) or just figuratively (though threat of
lynching)?

Helper made an interesting comparison between economic progress in New York
vs. Virginia. I have the reference at home if anyone is interested.

: Finally, as far as the opinions of African-Americans regarding the war, they
: are quite appropriate for this group.  I created this group, and I kept the
: charter intentionally broad.  There are many topics which are discussed on
: this group, and all that are relevant should be welcomed (including whether or 
: not R. E. Lee buttoned his coat or not).  I personally welcome such
: discussions such as this, which I think are important to the understanding of
: the war and are not discussed frequently enough in a rational manner.  What I
: don't want to see is a racial flame war, instigated by anyone, and I am not
: pointing any fingers here.  When or if that happens, the parties will go into 
: my kill file.
: 
: PDunn

I second this. Could you please re-post the charter (or mail me a copy)?

Are spelling flames permitted 8^) ?

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P. L. Cowan	Please send replies, comments etc. (no flames thank you) to 
COWAN@ANL.GOV 	(I'm posting this from a friend's account)
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---------------------------------------------------------------------------
P. L. Cowan	Please send replies, comments etc. (no flames thank you) to 
COWAN@ANL.GOV 	(I'm posting this from a friend's account)
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