HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: drake@drake.almaden.ibm.com (Sam Drake)
Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers
Subject: Re: IBM vs. world terminology (was: What does dd stand for?)
Date: 31 Jul 92 06:25:19 GMT
Organization: IBM Almaden Research Center

In article <1992Jul30.043724.19215@ccu1.aukuni.ac.nz> ecmtwhk@ccu1.aukuni.ac.nz (Thomas Koenig) writes:
>thad@public.BTR.COM (Thaddeus P. Floryan) writes:
>>partition	minidisk
>
>Minidisk? That is standard VM terminology, for the virtual disks you set
>up for use by the operating systems running under VM.
>That probably migrated via AIX/370, which requires VM as host operating
>system 

No, it migrated there from AIX on the IBM RT.  On the RT, AIX was just one
operating system that lived in a "virtual machine" which was provided by
the VRM, which was the real operating system that ran on the hardware.
Other operating systems such as PICK actually ran under the VRM.  

If you replace "VRM" with "CP" and "AIX" with "CMS" and "PICK" with "MVS"
you have exactly described VM on IBM mainframes ... and so, indeed, 
"minidisk" came from VM but not by the mechanism proposed by Thomas.

>       (last time I looked, IBM had not got an independent UNIX on
>multiprocessor systems running yet...)

No, according to announcement 292-183, AIX/ESA supports up to a 3-way MP
now, with 6-way support in September.  Availability is phased, and
"all confirmations in all environments will be supported by December 31
1992."  AIX/ESA, unlike the earlier AIX/370, no longer requires VM.


Sam Drake / IBM Almaden Research Center 
Internet:  drake@almaden.ibm.com    BITNET:  DRAKE at ALMADEN
Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers
From: kolstad@cae.wisc.edu (Joel Kolstad)
Subject: Re: You know you've been hacking too long...
Organization: U of Wisconsin-Madison College of Engineering
Date: 24 Jul 92 18:18:37 CDT
Keywords: workstation, hacking, risks

In article <1992Jul24.094701.29178@cv.ruu.nl> anton@cv.ruu.nl (Anton H.J. Koning) writes:
>
>  Not only do I have it in 24 hour mode, my watch also includes both a
>  scientific and a programmer's (hex, oct, dec, bin) calculator. I know
>  this immediately disqualifies me as a real hacker, because they don't
[need]
>  hex calculators ;-)

Sure they do.  What else would we all use our HP-16C's for?  (And poor Casio
and TI imitations, for that matter!)
Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers
From: gold@imp.sim.es.com (Bruce Gold)
Subject: RE: What does UNIX mean
Keywords: Unix history folklore janice o'conner unibus tenex PDP-10 PDP-11
Reply-To: gold@imp.sim.es.com (Bruce Gold)
Organization: Evans & Sutherland Computer Corp., Salt Lake City, UT
Date: Wed, 29 Jul 1992 01:07:26 GMT

In Kernighan's and Pike's book, THE UNIX PROGRAMMING ENVIRONMENT, they say,
"UNIX is not an acronym, but a weak pun on MULTICS, the operating system that
Thompson and Ritchie worked on before UNIX."  They ought to know, but I've
always been skeptical about that story.

During the heyday of the MULTICS project, Bolt Beranek & Newman modified a
PDP-10, the darling computer of researchers with money, by adding a virtual
memory box and a 'swapping disk' made by Burroughs.  And they cooked up an
operating system that incorporated both virtual memory and some of the time-
sharing features of MULTICS.  BBN's operating system and also the modified
computer was called TENEX.  I suppose that was a PDP TEN EXtention.

The ARPA Net was a new and wonderful phenomenon at the time.  It seemed like
most every site on the net (There were DOZENS of them!) got a PDP-10, threw
away DEC's operating system, and modified it into a TENEX system.

That is also about the time of the birth of PDP-11, with its revolutionary
asynchronous Unibus and its memory mapped I/O space.  PDP-11 had an additional
virtue in addition to its architectural breakthroughs: it was really cheap 
compared to a TENEX system.

I believe that UNIX was really mean't to suggest UNIbus eXtension in a naming
scheme similar to TENEX.  This explanation could not be officially sanctioned
by AT&T, of course, because 'Unibus' was a trademark owned by DEC and TENEX
was a trademark owned by BBN.  AT&T wasn't about to spend needless bucks on
a non-product like UNIX!  (Surprise!)  Thus, I suspect the official story is 
a smoke screen.

A similar stretcher happened when the communications program, Kermit, was born.
There was a very creative (implausible) story explaining how it was an acronym
that had NOTHING to do with Kermit The Frog.  When Warner Brothers gave official
permission to use the name, the developers confessed, even though everyone
already knew it.

I guess I'm just an incurable skeptic. 
-- 
Bruce Gold gold@velara.sim.es.com

P.S.   This reminds me.  Does anyone remember the ARPAnet's "Janice O'Conner" 
phemomenon of the early 1970s?  How about Susan Inman at Mitre Corporation?
Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers
From: klaus@diku.dk (Klaus Ole Kristiansen)
Subject: Re: Americans who can't spell
Date: Thu, 23 Jul 1992 08:07:17 GMT
Organization: Department of Computer Science, U of Copenhagen

grog@adagio.UUCP (Greg Lehey) writes:

>In article <1992Jul17.142603.5599@public.sub.org> peterk@public.sub.org (Peter Kittel) writes:
>>mst@vexpert.dbai.tuwien.ac.at (Markus Stumptner) writes:
>>Exactly. In German, the date of today is pronounced (directly translated)
>>as "17th 7th 92". Very short and efficient. Ok, you might argue that
>          ^^^
>No, that's not German, that's an abomination. In German, the months have 
>names.

Well, in spoken Danish, today is either 23. juli or 23. i 7. (23rd in 7th)

>So presumably you're going to replace the names of the days of the
>week by numbers too.

>I only work from 2 to 6, sometimes on a 7, but never on a 1.

I don't work on mondays either. Oh, Americans start the week on
sunday. How confusing. Maybe we need an ISO standard?

I have never played the SF game Traveler, but I have been told
that it uses these names for the days of the week: oneday, twoday, ...
well, you get the idea. Oneday, twoday and fourday are actually
pretty close to the real names, though sevenday is a bit confusing,
being much closer to saturday than to sunday.

Klaus O K
From: richg@hatch.socal.com (Rich Greenberg)
Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers
Subject: Re: ibm displaywriter iii
Date: 22 Jul 92 07:44:22 GMT
Distribution: alt
Organization: Hatch Usenet and E-mail.  Playa del Rey, CA

In article <1992Jul21.1223.15856@dosgate> "curtis repen" <curtis.repen@canrem.com> writes:
>AT>How do I translate between either RS-232 or parallel(PC), and 20ma???

. . . . .

>  ObFolklore:
>    *Why* was current loop originally used, and why has it since been so
>  completely replaced by voltage-level 232 ???

Current loop dates back to the old Morse telegraphs where the current
through an electromagnet caused the sounder to make noise as the current
went on (aka "marking" or "mark") and off (aka "spaceing" or "space").
Mechanical teletype machines also used current loop (both 20 ma and
60 ma loops were used) to energize the magnets that made them work.

Voltage level operated devices (aka RS-232 et al) were introduced
when electronic devices no longer needed to physically move something
to operate.

-- 
                
Rich Greenberg - N6LRT - 310-649-0238 - richg@hatch.socal.com
Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers
From: Josef Moellers <mollers.pad@sni.de>
Subject: Re: Unix Roots of DOS?
Date: Mon, 27 Jul 1992 07:42:38 GMT
Organization: Siemens Nixdorf Info.Sys. AG, Paderborn, Germany

In <BrqqyB.xp@dexter.mi.org> jsr@dexter.mi.org (Jay S. Rouman) writes:

>In article <1992Jul21.003526.16050@NCoast.ORG> allbery@ncoast.org (Brandon S. Allbery KF8NH) writes:
>>The interesting thing being that the CP/M-80 world had its own solution,
>>namely ZCPR... which used the TOPS-10 (or possibly Tenex / TOPS-20)
>>hierarchical filename notation.  (Considering how klunky DOS is, it would
>>probably have been appropriate.  :-)

>Just to add a little to this, I have used ZCPR3 a lot and still own a
>system that runs it.  ZCPR3 is a wonderful system that provides search
>paths, named directories, a heirarchical help system, termcaps, and a
>raft of other useful features.  The file system is, however, flat not
>hierarchical.

I'd say it's two-dimensional:
1. drive (A-...)
2. user# (0-...)

>		Actually, CP/M always had the ability to divide disk
>drives into user area.  Unfortunately, until ZCPR3 was created, the
>tools did not exist to really take advantage of this feature.  ZCPR3
>placed labels on each user area, so you could say "TEXT:FOO.TXT", and
>the OS would figure out what disk drive and user area you wanted.

Unfortunately it isn't the OS that takes care of the mapping, but rather
a library call. The difference is that programs that do not know about
this feature (i.e. "standard" CP/M programs) cannot handle
"TEXT:FOO.TXT". The interface to the OS was (in CP/M) and still is (in
ZCPR3) the venerable FCB. And this FCB actually only holds the drive
number! So there isn't even a convenient way to use multiple-user#-files
from within a single program. You still have to log into the user-areas
whenever You want to use them.

>								    All
>the directories existed, whether labeled or not, so you could also say
>"B4:FOO.TXT" to refer to a file on Drive B, user area 4.  Sub-directories
>are not possible and changing the directory labels requires a partial
>rebuild of the system, so it's not as convenient as mkdir and rmdir.
>It's too bad that ZCRP3 wasn't ported to the 8088, but I think the
>author had moved on to other things by that time.
>-- 
>Jay S. Rouman  (jsr@dexter.mi.org)
-- 
| Josef Moellers		| c/o Siemens Nixdorf Informationssysteme AG  |
|  USA: mollers.pad@sni-usa.com	| Abt. STO-XS 113	   | Riemekestrasse   |
| !USA: mollers.pad@sni.de	| Phone: (+49) 5251 835124 | D-4790 Paderborn |
Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers
From: lasner@watsun.cc.columbia.edu (Charles Lasner)
Subject: Re: Terminal intrinsics
Reply-To: lasner@watsun.cc.columbia.edu (Charles Lasner)
Organization: Columbia University
Date: Wed, 29 Jul 1992 16:14:44 GMT

In article <7325210@zl2tnm.gen.nz> don@zl2tnm.gen.nz (Don Stokes) writes:
>
>Eh?  DEC always use DEL for delete.  It's that bloody telephone company
>that used BS to erase characters.  I can't comment on TOPS, but I haven't
>seen a DEC OS which uses BS as erase, and the LK201 (the standard "DEC"
>layout) doesn't even have backspace key.  (You can press Ctrl/H if you 
>_really_ must....  8-)
>
Yes, the same telephone company that thinks CR isn't an ASCII character
that precedes LF.

The LK-201 keyboard outputs a scan code for every key.  The keyboard is a
standard RS-423 device and could be added to any system that can also supply 
the power-supply voltage on the two power pins on the modular telephone
connector.

The interpretation within the system is of course system dependent.  On a
VT-220 or similar, the scan code is converted to an ESC sequence corresponding
to F12 if in type II terminal mode.  However in type I (VT-100) mode it
actually becomes a BS character.  Similarly the LF and ESC keys are the
adjacent F-keys in this mode.

On the DECmate series there is a recent change to the slushware (v 422) that
allows an additional mode in the terminal emulator: type II terminal with
these keys (and all other relevant changed keys) set at type I values.  This
is sometimes referred to as VT-220 8-bit with 7-bit controls, but in this
case the terminal emulator still responds to all 7 or 8 bit coming in; this
merely refers to what goes *out* when you press a key.

So, the answer is that an LK-201 *may* have a BS key.

cjl
Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers
From: Upholder@uiuc.edu (THE Upholder of Truth)
Subject: Re: Cloned computers
Reply-To: Upholder@uiuc.edu (THE Upholder of Truth)
Organization: The University of Illinois at Urbana-Champaign (UIUC)
Date: Fri, 31 Jul 1992 13:45:33 GMT

ucacmsu@ucl.ac.uk (Mr Stephen R Usher) writes:

>In article <Bs8H8G.5F3@undergrad.math.waterloo.edu> dagbrown@napier.uwaterloo.ca (Dave Brown) writes:
>>In article <greg.712512455@duke> greg@Quotron.COM (Greg "Maddog" Knauss) writes:
>>>The recent talk of various Tandy clones made me wonder how much hardware
>>>has been knocked-off over the years.  These are the ones I know of:
>>>
>>>Original			Clones
>>>------------------------------- -------------------------------
>>>IBM (PC/AT/etc.)		[Billions and billions...]
>>>Apple II(+/e/c)			Franklin (1000/1200), Laser 128
>>>Tandy Color Computer		Dragon 32
>>>Tandy TRS-80			Video Genie
>>>Macintosh			[Rumored.  Asian and American.]
>> IBM (PC/AT/etc)                Amiga
>> Macintosh                      Amiga
>> Sinclair Spectrum              Amiga
>> Atari ST                       Amiga
>> Commodore 64                   Amiga
>> BBC Micro                      Amiga
>> CP/M Machines (2.2)            Amiga
>IBM (PC/AT/etc)			Atari ST/TT (Software Emu or hardware)
>Macintosh			Atari ST/TT (Software)
>Apple II			Atari ST/TT (Software Emu)
>Commodore 64			Atari ST/TT (Software Emu)
>Atari 400/800(XL)		Atari ST/TT (Software Emu)
>Sinclair ZX81			Atari ST/TT (Software Emu)
>Sinclair ZX Spectrum		Atari ST/TT (Software Emu)
>				Hobbit Micro (exUSSR)
>CPM				Atari ST/TT (Software Emu)

Macintosh			Outbound portables

Actually, this may or may not quallify as a clone as old Apple ROMs
are used (usually canabalized from dead Mac Plus machines).
-- 
The Upholder of Truth		  	    I am not only ready to
Upholder@uiuc.edu (BSD/ASCII mail)          retract this, but also
jar42733@sumter.cso.uiuc.edu (NeXT mail)    deny I said anything.  =)
wi.4173@wizvax.methuen.ma.us (anon. mail)   This is *NOT* CCSO's opinion.
From: davol@zosmameiko.co.uk (David Wilson)
Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers
Subject: Re: Computers in movies
Date: 21 Jul 92 12:28:41 GMT
Article-I.D.: meiko.1992Jul21.122841.22061
Organization: meiko

>The student in the book implements the AI in the program based on
>a (supposed) Scientific American article that shows how you can
>'teach' matchboxes to play tic tac toe (using statistics and repeated
>trials).  Did such an article ever exists?  It would make for interesting
>reading.

Yes it certainly did exist. But when ..... ? 
10 years ago, maybe 

davol@uk.co.meiko
Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers
From: allan@cs.UAlberta.CA (Allan Sullivan)
Subject: Re: Non Unix-OS's
Organization: University of Alberta, Edmonton, Canada
Date: Thu, 30 Jul 1992 23:14:50 GMT

>In article <9207291418.AA17748@thep.lu.se> magnus@THEP.LU.SE (Magnus Olsson) writes:
>>
>>So, I wonder, how many non-Unix OS's are still being used on *new*
>>multi-user hardware? Of course, there are a lot of old systems,
>>running old OS's. And there are lots of microcomputer OS's, but let's
>>exclude most of them by defining "OS", I mean multi-tasking, multi-user
>>OS. 
>>

I once spent a summer programming a Qantel mini-computer which ran
an OS called 'Best' (their wording, not mine). I didn't get into many
of the hardware or OS details, but I do know the shell program was
written in BASIC.

This was about 1987, but I still believe the system is in use. Has
anyone ever heard of this OS, or even Qantel?


Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers
From: wollman@trantor.emba.uvm.edu (Garrett Wollman)
Subject: Re: Pronouncing Unix names
Organization: University of Vermont, EMBA Computer Facility
Date: Fri, 31 Jul 1992 19:19:37 GMT

In article <Bs7pJw.F91@undergrad.math.waterloo.edu> dagbrown@napier.uwaterloo.ca (Dave Brown) writes:
>But the real question is, what the **** does the 'rc' _stand_ for?!

Read Don Libes and Sandy Ressler's book, _Life with Unix_ (or was that
_Life with UNIX_?).

The `rc' suffix in configuration files (such as .mailrc, .bashrc,
.cshrc, .newsrc, .dvipsrc, .twmrc, .netrc, and so on) comes from the
original `rc', /etc/rc.  This, in turn, comes from a command
interpreter called RUNCOM (guess: in its operating system, the ``file
type'' of RUNCOM input was `RC') on one of the other operating systems
that ken and dmr used.

-GAWollman

-- 
   Garrett A. Wollman  = wollman@emba.uvm.edu = UVM is welcome to my opinions
                       =    uvm-gen!wollman   =
   That's what being alive is all about.  No deity, no higher goal
   exists, than to bring joy to another person.    - Elf Sternberg
From: thad@btr.BTR.COM (Thaddeus P. Floryan)
Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers
Subject: Re: Computer Relics (Was: 9 track data storage?)
Date: 30 Jul 92 10:54:16 GMT
Organization: BTR Public Access UNIX, Mountain View CA

In article <1992Jul28.162637.15904@twg.com> nolan@twg.com writes:
>
>In article <1992Jul21.205524.20552@nap.amoco.com>, pgravel@nap.amoco.com (Philip L. Gravel) writes:
>
>|>Name your favorite artifact of a by-gone era....
>
>Plugboards!

How 'bout "rotating memory"?  This was back when computers' main memories
actually were rotating, and one had to program with cognizance of the
rotational latency for optimum execution speed (where, say, the next
"sequential" instruction would be 57 degrees away, etc. :-)

Those conditions were "just" before my time, but one person at my company
actually programmed such computers back in the late 1950s.

And what about those "mini" punch cards with, what, 96 "columns" in an area
about 1/3 the size of a conventional Hollerith card?  That concept was very
short-lived, though I may still have some card holders and card samples.

Thad Floryan [ thad@btr.com (OR) {decwrl, mips, fernwood}!btr!thad ]
From: terry@spcvxb.spc.edu (Terry Kennedy, Operations Mgr.)
Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers
Subject: Re: 9 track data storage???????????????
Date: 22 Jul 92 05:30:36 GMT
Organization: St. Peter's College, US

In article <3870202@zl2tnm.gen.nz>, don@zl2tnm.gen.nz (Don Stokes) writes:
> Ever tried booting Standalone Backup off TK50?  You get time not only
> to eat dinner, but to cook it as well.  But it's still not as bad as
> doing anything with a TU58....

  No, you could also supervise your dinner from when it began life through
the processing and delivery to the market while waiting. This amazes me -
it's slower than TU58's (really! I have both a 750 w/ TU58's and a MVII w/
TK50). Booting from RX33's is _lots_ faster. Most peculiar.

	Terry Kennedy		Operations Manager, Academic Computing
	terry@spcvxa.bitnet	St. Peter's College, Jersey City, NJ USA
	terry@spcvxa.spc.edu	+1 201 915 9381
From: tim@rri.UUCP (Tim Buck)
Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers
Subject: Re: What does dd stand for?
Date: 27 Jul 92 12:37:17 GMT
Organization: Recognition Research Inc., Blacksburg, VA

In article <1992Jul25.011759.7655@organpipe.uug.arizona.edu> dougw@zippy.as.arizona.edu (Doug Williams) writes:
>I am interested in the derivation of the name of the Unix command dd.  My
>local Unix guru said he always assumed it stood for "device to device," but
>could not substantiate this claim.  Any guesses??
>
I always thought it was "data dump", but "device to device" sounds plausible
too.
From: nreadwin@micrognosis.co.uk (Neil Readwin)
Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers
Subject: Re: Terminal intrinsics
Date: 30 Jul 92 19:22:40 GMT
Organization: Micrognosis, London, UK.

In article <158npqINNdbu@grapevine.EBay.Sun.COM>, smckinty@sunicnc.France.Sun.COM (Steve McKinty - Sun ICNC) writes:
|> We had a lot of VT2xx terminals with those keyboards in an office which
|> suffered a carbomb attack right outside.
|> 
|> [...] Almost every terminal needed a new keyboard but was otherwise OK
|> [...] why should [the keyboards suffer the most damage]

Check the serial numbers on the VT200 terminals. If they start with TB
then they are the hardened model which is specifically designed to
withstand the blast from a carbomb attack in the immediate area.
Engineering called the project 'Beirut' but it never made it into the
product list, so the prototype production run was sold off as if they
were standard models. There is probably someone somewhere else wondering
why their keyboards survived some similar disaster whilst all the screens
imploded :-)
-- 
 Phone: +44 71 528 8282  E-mail: nreadwin@micrognosis.co.uk
 Anything is a cause for sorrow that my mind or body has made
From: dick.zeitlin%acc1bbs@ssr.com (Dick Zeitlin) 
Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers
Subject: Re: You know you've been
Date: 26 Jul 92 17:40:00 GMT
Distribution: world
Organization: Advanced Computer Concepts BBS, New Rochelle, NY 914-654-1981
Reply-To: dick.zeitlin%acc1bbs@ssr.com (Dick Zeitlin) 

DJM> .Just out of curiosity... out of all of you hackers who wear a digital
   > .watch, how many have it in 24 hour mode?

Is there another mode?  <~>  Of COURSE a digital timepiece has to be in
24 hour mode.  And the second time zone is set to UTC.

        D/

 * OLX 2.2 * Dick.Zeitlin%acc1bbs@ssr.com
                                                                              
Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers
From: artn@bert.eecs.uic.edu (Ellyn Sandor)
Subject: Re: The Turn of The Century<tm>
Organization: University of Illinois at Chicago
Date: Thu, 23 Jul 1992 22:32:03 GMT

phil@adam.adelaide.edu.au (Phil Kernick) writes:


>program in the language, is that:


>Straight out.  You can code anything simple in it with no real difficulty,
>it is just very wordy.  However don't try anything complicated!

	My father started out in the 60s (50s?) on an IBM 1401 for the
US Government.  He predates COBOL, and told me the reason for COBOL existing
is because a programmer in machine language (which he calls Basic, oddly
enough {possibly referring to BAL?  I'm too young for these acronyms})
could write programs to embezzle funds (this was a DB system for writing
checks.)  If everything had to be written in cobol and typed in by
keypunch operators who don't know anything about programming, the
management people could keep up with the code and prevent any slick hacks
from getting through.
	In other words, COBOL is SUPPOSED to be hackerproof. 
			Stephan
-- 
*******************************************************************************
*                                                                             *
*                         This is my first .sig!!!                            *
*                                                                             *
From: posegga@margaux.ira.uka.de (Joachim Posegga)
Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers
Subject: Anyone heard of the GIER Digital Computer?
Date: 22 Jul 92 12:57:01
Organization: Karlsruhe University, Dept of Comp Science, FRG
Distribution: alt
NNTP-Posting-Host: i12s3.ira.uka.de


I came across a paper mentioning a machine called the "GIER digital
computer"; it must have been in use in the mid-60's at the Polish
Academie of Science. Does anyone know details of this machine (memory,
speed, etc)?

Please answer by email, News is currently a bit unreliable here in
Karlsruhe.

	Joachim.
Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers
From: wing@canada.ceo.dg.com (Brian Wing)
Subject: Re: Data General
Date: Wed, 29 Jul 92 22:19:32 GMT
Organization: Data General (Canada) Inc.

gmw1@cunixa.cc.columbia.edu (Gabe M Wiener) writes:
: Back in the late 70's and early 80's, I remember visiting an office where 
: they had a Data General machine that was used for accounting purposes.
...
: The drive was a drawer that pulled out of the machine.  You would remove
: the "disk pack" by turning a handle and pulling it straight up.  You'd
: put in another by dropping it in and turning the handle until it locked
: into position.  You'd then close the drawer.
...
: My question:  Can anyone tell me how much storage these things probably had?

Yes, indeed.  Those were the old "Phoenix" disk drives.  They had a
fixed part and a removable part and came in two capacities: 10 Mb (5
Mb fixed and 5 Mb removable) and 20 Mb (10 over 10).  You would
typically do backups by moving data from the fixed portion to the
removable pack, removing the pack (neat magnetic latch) and storing
it away.  I have one memory of a computer room with stacks of these,
each with tidy date labels.
-- 
Brian Wing                         Software Support Smartass
Data General (Canada) Inc.
130-13151 Vanier Pl., Richmond     dotdot: brian_wing@canada.ceo.dg.com
B.C., Canada V6V 2J2               "Hello?": +1 604 273 5100
Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers