HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: ecsd@tfs.com (Eric C. S. Dynamic)
Subject: Re: t// Re: REC.ORG.MENSA TODAY
Organization: TRW Financial Systems
Date: Thu, 1 Oct 1992 09:17:14 GMT

quam@lanai.cs.ucla.edu (David Quam) writes:
>tai@ailab.ncsu.edu (Scott A Tai) writes:
>>> This claim of joining MENSA for social reasons has always sounded hollow. 
>>> First, any area large enough for a MENSA chapter will also have any number 
>>> of other clubs, and any interest club on an intellectual subject will be 
>>> overloaded with intelligent people. Second, unless one is a gross 
>>> underachiever, anyone bright enough to qualify for MENSA will be 
>>> surrounded by intelligent people at college or at work. 
>
>
>I disagree totally.  All people in MENSA have IQ's (whatever that means,
>and it doesn't matter anyway) at or above the 98th percentile.  This prob-
>ably isn't true of any other ordinary club.  How many "interest clubs" have
>"an intellectual subject"?  Only a minority.  And their members don't ALL
>have IQ's over 135.
>
>Most people "in college" are barely above average in intelligence, and how
>many of them want to talk about intellectual subjects, anyway?  Don't you
>remember what your college classmates did on their spare time?  That's right --
>drink, party, have sex, watch TV.  And as far as people "at work" being very
>intelligent, give me a break!  Business is the haven of dodos.
>

Well now. I'd much rather be having *hot* and *heavy* sex, *drunk* *wasted*
or otherwise *out of my mind*, *partying* like crazy, with my gender-opposite
whose IQ equipped them to have as much *fun* with the experiences as mine
does for *me*.

Since we can't keep it up forever, after a while there will be time to discuss
the important issues of the day. But our intelligence will enable us to
decide between Clinton and Bush in mere fractions of the time it'd take the
others - and having dispensed with the important issues and being bored,
we should retire to the velvet-lined room where we recommence exploring the
universe through each other, by *partying*, *drinking*, imbibing *chemicals
and drugs*, having *Many hours* of *Hot and Heavy Sex*, etc.

I'm just joking, okay?? (sheeure.)
-ecsd
From: gmark@cbnewse.cb.att.com (gilbert.m.stewart)
Newsgroups: rec.org.mensa
Subject: Re: Famous Mensans
Date: 2 Oct 92 18:49:16 GMT
Article-I.D.: cbnewse.1992Oct2.184916.14859
Organization: AT&T

In article <1992Oct2.082905.16918@tfs.com> ecsd@tfs.com (Eric C. S. Dynamic) writes:
>karlth@rhi.hi.is (Karl Thoroddsen) writes:
>>(famous mensans)
>>Clive Sinclair and ..... humm well Madonna is Mensa material (140 SB-IQ).
>>
>>Internet: karlth@rhi.hi.is             \ Karl Thoroddsen University Of Iceland
>
>
>>.................................. Madonna is Mensa material (140 SB-IQ).
>
>Oooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! yeah.

I like to say, "Get a load of the frontal lobes on that one".

But courteously, in a very respectful way, of course.

GMS
From: ecsd@tfs.com (Eric C. S. Dynamic)
Newsgroups: rec.org.mensa
Subject: Re: REC.ORG.MENSA TODAY
Date: 30 Sep 92 10:10:13 GMT
Organization: TRW Financial Systems

jswthomp@milton.u.washington.edu (James Thompson) writes:
> ecsd@tfs.com (Eric C. S. Dynamic) writes:
>>
>>There are too few Mensans, and Mensa is not seen as more than a social club.
>>"Geniuses are weird" and the public is given to think of them as 'other' and
>>mere curiosities.

>Hold it.  Reality check time.
>
>According to many of the posts I've seen here, by Mensans defending the fact
>that Mensa doesn't accomplish anything, Mensa IS nothing more than a social
>club.  If you want to be considered significant, you have to DO something
>significant.

My point was, that's how people at large see it. That's what I thought Tai
was driving at.
From: phil@miracle.com (Phil Hill)
Newsgroups: rec.org.mensa
Subject: Re: t// Re: REC.ORG.MENSA TODAY
Date: Wed, 30 Sep 92 03:33:59 EDT
Organization: Miracle Computer Consultants

tai@ailab.ncsu.edu (Scott A Tai) writes:
>This claim of joining MENSA for social reasons has always sounded hollow. 
>First, any area large enough for a MENSA chapter will also have any number 
>of other clubs, and any interest club on an intellectual subject will be 
>overloaded with intelligent people. Second, unless one is a gross 
>underachiever, anyone bright enough to qualify for MENSA will be 
>surrounded by intelligent people at college or at work. 
>

Gee Wiz Scottie, I work for myself.  I don't seem to be surrounded by
intelligent people at work.  Where did I go wrong?
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
| Phil Hill                     | "All you people in TV land,           |
| Miracle Computer Consultants  |   I will wake up your empty shells.   |
|                               |  Peak time viewing blown in a flash,  |
|                               |   as I burn into your memory cells.   |
| Email: phil@miracle.com       |  'cause I'm alive." - Peter Gabriel   |








Newsgroups: rec.org.mensa
From: suopanki@zombie.oulu.fi (Heikki Suopanki)
Subject: Re: Famous Mensans
Reply-To: suopanki@phoenix.oulu.fi
Organization: Unixverstas Olutensin, Finlandia
Date: Fri, 2 Oct 1992 20:16:23 GMT

>>>>> On 1 Oct 92 21:13:10 GMT, mike_steiner@qm.claris.com (Mike Steiner) said:
 
> All right...at the risk of boring you all with repetition, this card-carrying
> Mensan would like to ask for the names of famous Mensans.  I was asked for
> this info and came up with a near blank.

Mike> Isaac Asimov, Sir Clive Sinclair, Geena Davis

yeap

Mike> F. Buckminster Fuller, Adrian Kronaur, Jean Auel, F. Lee Bailey,
Mike> Donald Petersen

just wondering who are these persons....

-Heikki
--
What do you get when you cross an agnostic, an insomniac and a dyslexic?
Someone who stays up all night wondering if there really is a dog.
Newsgroups: rec.org.mensa
From: ecsd@tfs.com (Eric C. S. Dynamic)
Subject: Re: Muchow D.: About Nothing
Organization: TRW Financial Systems
Date: Tue, 29 Sep 1992 07:08:46 GMT

not@ailab.ncsu.edu (N O Tai) writes:
>
>In my view the way American politicians (either side) try to sell 
>themselves by devaluating their opponents is absolutely ridiculous. But 
>when I see the audience on a "Oprah Winfrey Show" (that reached The 
>Netherlands through Luxembourg) I can understand it. I often get the 
>impression that Oprah's audience are imported from the Middle Ages. I 
>hope they aren't a good sample of "Americans in general".
>
>I agree with the statement about the degeneration of the US political
>campaign process in theory, but in actuality, smear campaigning is 
>largely effective, so similar tactics will continue to be used.  As far 
>as the Oprah television show, although I've never seen the show, I believe
>it's videotaped in Chicago, and that would go a great ways towards
>explaining the audience.
>
>Dr. N.O. Tai

The educational system does not explore self-consciousness and self-possession.
It does not address the conflict between reason and emotion, and says very
little about spiritual philosophy where these issues are addressed.

I note that my civics class didn't take any time out to describe the techniques
of advertising and propaganda, showing TV commercials and how to spot false
reasoning. The debate class in high-school may have come closest to exploring
this - the varieties of logical fallacy. The government class devoted precisely
two paragraphs to a description of the Vietnam War, offering the standard
'stopping communist aggression' line; and of course there was the book about
the Soviets with a the upper-half of the face of a sinister-looking Lenin.

We encourage our children to remain children, and that is who the audience
in now at large - spoiled children, told they are adults, given little access
to free information, and not encouraged to explore political freedom. Cannon-
fodder for the next "Willie Horton" 30-second ad.

The media pander to and foster this. They report characterizations of
intellectuals as "pointy-headed liberals" and anti-intellectualism is a
cherished virtue in many places in our country. We reap what we sow, and
disaster lies all around us. Things are getting better ever so slowly -
so slowly.

Our society stands at the brink of a revolution, clearly seen in how high
the ante has gotten through the rhetoric. The old system cultivates the
worst the human animal offers (rage, hate, ignorance) while suppressing the
best (love, sex, awareness) in order to control people. The new system marries
our animal and spiritual systems and fosters consciousness, productivity,
creativity, tolerance and true freedom. So a last polemic: the Sixties are
coming back to stay: smarter, stronger, more self-aware - and in too many
numbers of people to suppress. I hope to see "one world, one people, one love"
much, much closer to realization by the time I pass from this world.
From: mike_steiner@qm.claris.com (Mike Steiner)
Newsgroups: rec.org.mensa
Subject: Re: RE: rec.org.high-iq.misc?
Date: 30 Sep 92 18:16:45 GMT

In article <1992Sep29.194019.16937@gn.ecn.purdue.edu>, mechalas@gn.ecn.purdue.edu (John P. Mechalas) writes:
> 
> In article <15223@claris.com> mike_steiner@qm.claris.com (Mike Steiner) writes:
> >In article <1992Sep25.181955.6266@gn.ecn.purdue.edu>, mechalas@gn.ecn.purdue.edu (John P. Mechalas) writes:
> >> Just as a curiosity, isn't this what the newsgroup "general" is for?  Because
> >> if it is, then Mr Bacher's fears about crossposting have no basis, since there
> >> is less activity on "general" than anywhere else.
> >>    I think that, although sound in reasoning, an "everything" newsgroup just
> >> wouldn't last...people are too used to the large number of specific groups,
> >> and I can't see them wading through a bunch of posts that are probably not
> >> related to what they are interested in.
> >>    Any thoughts on this?
> >
> >I didn't know that there was such a newsgroup as "general," but that is really
> >moot.  This is one of the very few newsgroups not related to the Macintosh that
> >I read.  And, as you quoted me as saying, this format for a Mensa forum has worked
> >on other venues for years.  The Fidonet Mensa echo was started in 1987, I believe,
> >and is still going strong.
> 
> Okay...I undestand what you mean now.  I apparently mis-read your original
> post and got confused.  I remember someone asking you if you want a 
> newsgroup like alt.everything or something...I didn't realize that you
> were referring to rec.org.mensa being such a group.
>    That is something that I agree with you on.  This format is fine for
> a MENSA newsgroup.  As someone posted ealier, it's like the Hospitality
> Suite at an RG, with an occasional seminar or two.  Lots of conversation,
> and informative posting to go with it.

great!  Now "all" we have to do is convince the doubting Thomases (and
Thomasinas) out there. :-)
From: bernard@sirius.gte.com (Bernard Silver)
Newsgroups: rec.org.mensa
Subject: Re: The An-Tai conspiracy game
Date: 6 Oct 92 13:19:20 GMT
Organization: GTE Laboratories Incorporated
In-reply-to: ecsd@tfs.com's message of 6 Oct 92 06:54:46 GMT

In article <1992Oct6.065446.6344@tfs.com> ecsd@tfs.com (Eric C. S. Dynamic) writes:

	[A proposal for dealing with Tai]

>   3. There is no Artificial Intelligence Systems Lab at NCSU. By using NCSU
>      and AI as a cover, he is damaging the reputation of NCSU, the
>      AI department there, and that of the people there - at least,
>      he is not concerned if such results.

>   Perhaps no one of these is a serious offense.
>   Taken together, I think they make a rude picture.


Why waste any energy?  These things really don't matter. rec.org.mensa
is not an important forum.  Do you really think that the reputation
of NCSU will be damaged in any serious way?  There are stupid postings
from everywhere (except from GTE of course).

tfs.com has an employee who is serious about astrology?  Wow, they must
be a bunch of jerks!  And Mike Steiner is a Mensan?  They must all be
rude, childish, self-important pompous idiots.

--
				Bernard Silver
				GTE Laboratories
				bsilver@gte.com
				(617) 466-2663
Newsgroups: rec.org.mensa
From: lumensa@lub001.lamar.edu (Dale Parish)
Newsgroups: rec.org.mensa
Subject: Re: I. M. Shirley Wright says...
Date: 3 Oct 92 06:35:43 GMT
Organization: Lamar University - Beaumont

> 
> 	Does WIAV mean "What Is a Vance?"?
> 
> Should one put the "?" inside the "\"", $1 outside $2, or have two of the "?"?
> 
> I breathlessly await your responses.
> 

If you receive an answer, I doubt your last statement.
From: lehlers@dk.oracle.com (Lars Ehlers)
Newsgroups: rec.org.mensa
Subject: Re: Personal to gmark@cbnewse.cb.att.com (gilbert.m.stewart)
Date: 3 Oct 92 01:55:19 GMT
Reply-To: lehlers@dk.oracle.com (Lars Ehlers)
Organization: Oracle Denmark

In article <1992Oct2.000245.18568@ncsu.edu> mai@ailab.ncsu.edu (Mai Tai) 
writes:
>
>Gilbert:
>
>If I were to guess, I'd say that you are having great difficulty.  
>I'd also say that whatever results from IQ tests you have, you 
>don't score very high.  In short, you don't strike me as even average
>intelligence.  This leads me to believe that you may work at
>AT&T in some support function, such as an operator.  
>
>Now, if none of this is true, and you are some fairly innocent
>janitor or service employee at AT&T, please realize that you might 
>be in very deep shit if the management finds you, essentially, 
>playing games with their equipment.
>
>None of the above bothers me, but I know it bothers other people,
>and they might not be so concerned or helpful as I'm trying to
>be, and they might "rat" on you, so to speak, at the drop of
>a hat, and if you have some kind of job, I'm assuming it is
>just getting you by, and losing it at this point in the
>economic cycle would not be pretty, even assuming you have
>marketable skills.
>
>So if you are somehow getting access to the computer without 
>permission from AT&T, please come clean.  I know it sounds trivial, 
>but some corporations are a bit touchy when it comes to custodians, 
>dishwashers, etc., etc., using expensive resources that are in short 
>supply for salaried workers.
>
>Good Luck!
>
>Mai

This leeds me to believe that you *are* artificial but surely not intelligent!

-- 
Lars Ehlers                  |  lehlers@dk.oracle.com
Oracle Denmark               |                        
Newsgroups: rec.org.mensa
From: jlc5f@poe.acc.Virginia.EDU (Jean L. Cooper)
Subject: Re: Muchow D.: About Nothing ==> NOT HARDLY
Organization: University of Virginia
Date: Wed, 30 Sep 1992 22:20:51 GMT

jlc5f@poe.acc.Virginia.EDU  writes:

Sorry--this paragraph from my previous message should
read as follows:
> 
> As I understand it, the punctuation inside the quotes
> ("... America.") is the American standard and the punc-
> tuation outside the quotes ("...Britain".) is the British
          ^^^^^^^
> standard.
> 
--
Jean L. Cooper    (BITNET: JLC5F@virginia.edu   CIS: 70253,1114)
"The true University of these days is a Collection of Books." 
                                           --Carlyle
From: ts@cup.portal.com (Tim W Smith)
Newsgroups: rec.org.mensa
Subject: "wrong" answers on IQ tests
Date: Sat, 26 Sep 92 21:49:13 PDT
Organization: The Portal System (TM)

I picked up a book called something like "Test Your IQ" or "Know You
IQ" or something like that (clearly, the next book I should read is
"How To Organize You Library"!).  I'm having a problem with the
scoring -- several of their answers are wrong!

Example:  Which of the five designs is least like the other four?

	The five designs are capital letters: N A V H and F.

There answer is that V is least like the others because it is drawn with
two lines, while the others are drawn with three.  My answer is that A is
the least like th others because it divides the plane into two regions
while the others do not.

Clearly, my difference is more significant than their difference.

I realize that such a test has very little validity, but I still would like
to know how to score it.  Should I simply count it as if I got these questions
right?  Should I remove these questions from the test, and scale everything
else up to get back to the range of their scoring table?

I wonder if this is the same test that Asimov used to claim a 270 IQ :-)
(He took some test from a book, and it told him his IQ was 135.  He
had taken half the allowed time, so he decided to double his score!)

--Tim Smith
From: crawdad@fncent (Matt Crawford)
Newsgroups: rec.org.mensa
Subject: Re: Doubters Of Astrology
Date: 6 Oct 92 23:23:05 GMT
Article-I.D.: linac.18!2O6ZC6
Organization: FERMILAB, Batavia, IL

Young-Kyu Yoo:
>The position that "astrology does NOT work" is as much an unsupported
>position (logically, scientifically) as the assertion, without proof, that
>it does.

That just isn't true.  A well-informed skeptic can cite a great many
statistically valid tests which produced null results.


>The question that started this thread was how intelligent folks can
>believe in astrology.

(Close.  I believe I set it off by tangentially expressing dismay
that some did believe, without attempting to ask why.)

					Matt
From: mike_steiner@qm.claris.com (Mike Steiner)
Newsgroups: rec.org.mensa
Subject: Re: Magik
Date: 1 Oct 92 21:05:58 GMT

In article <1992Oct1.075724.22061@tfs.com>, ecsd@tfs.com (Eric C. S. Dynamic) writes:
> 
> mike_steiner@qm.claris.com (Mike Steiner) writes:
> > ecsd@tfs.com (Eric C. S. Dynamic) writes:
> >> jswthomp@milton.u.washington.edu (James Thompson) writes:
> >> >I deeply believe that magic should always be spelled without a 'k'.
> >> >Jim
> >> I second. "Magic" should be called 'parlor magic'; "Magick", which is
> >> a subject as broad and deep as religion, should have the rights to "Magic".
> >
> >Parlor magic?  What about stage magic?  close-up magic?  escape artistry?
> >
> >They all come under the umbrella term of "entertainment magic."  Anyway,
> >considering that "magick" is the original spelling, why not use it for
> >the supernatural kind, and use the more modern spelling "magic" for
> >the entertainment kind?
> 
> For feel. I'm very visual, and calling myself a "magickian" violates my
> parsing rules for phonetics. The way you say is the way it is now.
> I'm lazy. The extra 'k' is (to me) spurious, and more work, and -damn -
> it just *feels* wrong.

As a magician (the entertainment kind), I feel the same way.
Newsgroups: rec.org.mensa
From: gmark@cbnewse.cb.att.com (gilbert.m.stewart)
Subject: Re: t// Re: Meaning of Intelligence
Organization: AT&T
Date: Tue, 6 Oct 1992 06:17:11 GMT

In article <1992Oct6.031824.29783@ncsu.edu> tai@ailab.ncsu.edu (Scott A Tai) writes:
>
>radams@BNR.CA (Rodney Adams) writes:
>|> By the way, Mark, I liked your post detailing your valid complaints about
[....]
>|> you would not want you real name(s) to be associated with this charade.
>
>Hardly.  I just don't want to get bombed by Steiner flame scripts:
>
>$ while true
[....]
>|> I have been so tolerant of you....  Why could you not show the decency
>|> to step forth, admit to the mistakes you make, write coherent and consistent
>|> articles, and let us see who you are and why you believe what you believe?
>
>Fire away.  I thought I'd answered all the questions, but ask me anything.

Excellent.  Consider the fact that I don't know what questions you're
talking about.  Please clarify.  Who is asking you questions?  What are
they?  What are your answers?

BTW, let this "Steiner"-thing go.  It's not getting you anywhere.
Just focus on the immediate thread, and it'll help us get this
situation under control.

Later, friend.

GMS
Newsgroups: rec.org.mensa
From: wiegand@rtsg.mot.com (Robert Wiegand)
Subject: Re: Doubters Of Astrology
Reply-To: motcid!wiegand@uunet.uu.net
Organization: Motorola Inc., Cellular Infrastructure Group
Distribution: "world"
Date: Mon, 5 Oct 1992 17:51:12 GMT

ecsd@tfs.com (Eric C. S. Dynamic) writes:

[Stuff deleted]

>When finished drawing the chart, you can end up with a very complex graph.
>This is the archetypal map of the psychology of the person. We're discussing
>the interaction between components of what gives the person to be as they
>are. I cannot look at a specific aspect and say, "This means blah", without
>looking at the connections to everything else. I cannot also predict what
>learning the person has already done around issues in the chart. If Mars
>squared Venus indicates and internal male/female split, how much of that
>has the person worked through already? And that single relationship's
>character will affect the relations between all points in the chart.
>There are still too many degrees of freedom, as it were, I can only make
>classes of guesses to begin with.

The problem is that the are too many "degrees of freedom". Once you know
the "correct answers" from the person you can find anything you want
by just reading the chart the right way. You are finding whet you expect
to find, and overlooking what you don't expect to find.

>I *must* explore the person themselves, to *complete* my determination
>of the chart, to be able to advise the person in who they exactly are.
>The advisory part is the heart of astrology - by the time I've reached this
>phase, I'm not trying to prove anything.

>All my first-pass sketches will reveal is that set of classes of guesses,
>but that's all *I* want to prove.
>-ecsd

-- 
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Robert Wiegand - Motorola Inc.
motcid!wiegand@uunet.uu.net            uunet!motcid!wiegand
Disclamer: I didn't do it - I was somewhere else at the time.
From: gmark@cbnewse.cb.att.com (gilbert.m.stewart)
Newsgroups: rec.org.mensa
Subject: Re: t// Re: Personal to gmark@cbnewse.cb.att.com (gilbert.m.stewart)
Date: 6 Oct 92 16:50:32 GMT
Organization: AT&T

In article <1992Oct6.023707.28019@ncsu.edu> tai@ailab.ncsu.edu (Scott A Tai) writes:
>
>gmark@cbnewse.cb.att.com (gilbert.m.stewart) writes:
>|> Scott, thanks very much for this example.  This gives me the opportunity
[....]
>
> gmark  history
>     1  18:04   ls
>     ...
>     7  18:04   finger mai
>                ^^^^^^^^^^ You wish!!! :)

Oh, I forgot to tell you.  Your extraction sequence for this information
is either broken or someone is playing a joke on you.  I use a private
version of "ls" which has a different name, my system does not have
"finger", and my files, including my history files, which also have
different names, are unreadable by anyone or anything except my
private tools.  How I manage to guarantee this is also private.

Hope this helps.

GMS
From: gmark@cbnewse.cb.att.com (gilbert.m.stewart)
Newsgroups: rec.org.mensa
Subject: Re: Doubters Of Astrology
Date: 29 Sep 92 20:23:56 GMT
Organization: AT&T

In article <3a+p+p+.yoo@netcom.com> yoo@netcom.com (Young-Kyu Yoo) writes:
>I'm not a member of Mensa, though I do have the test scores to qualify
>(1580 SATs, perfect PSATs).  I have a degree in mathematics (pure as opposed

You'll be judged more by what you say than these numbers, I hope.

>A good scientist, however,
>should take very little on faith.  The "opinions" of a Nobel Prize winner
>amount to nothing if the preponderance of physical evidence weighs against
>her.   

Damn straight.

>A true scientist and skeptic, I think, remains neutral on a question until
>the physical data tips the scale in one direction or the other.  To those
>who dismiss astrology without testing it empirically themselves or 
>critically examining the small body of serious scientific work on the
>subject (there have been many attempts to debunk it...but very few such
>attempts hold up under serious scientific or mathematical scrutiny...
>a consequence of the fact that most debunkers are not serious
>scientists), I would say that it is not skepticism they are practicing,
>but an UNscientific, unexamined prejudice against the so-called pseudo-sciences.

Well said!

GMS