From: demers@cs.ucsd.edu (David DeMers)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
Subject: Re: Mattingly, what a fine fielder (was: Hardly not etc.)
Date: 6 Nov 92 19:56:40 GMT
Distribution: na
Organization: CSE Dept., UC San Diego


In article <7936@transfer.stratus.com>, gene@bogus.sw.stratus.com (Eugene Loparco) writes:
|> In article <7911@transfer.stratus.com> jmann@vineland.pubs.stratus.com writes:
|> >In article <1992Nov05.005627.159157@zeus.calpoly.edu>  
|> >
|> >More to the point though, are all "feelings" created equal?
|> >(I'm not sure why you empahsized "feels," by the way.)  I've 
|> >seen Luis Rivera have some real good games at shortstop. (He's
|> >also had some real bad ones there, but I'll ignore those for
|> >now.)  Is it reasonable based on that to say that I feel that
|> >Luis Rivera is as good as Ozzie Smith?  Or, lets take a
|> 
|> I think Mr. Lee's point (and mine) is that if you want to think that
|> Luis Rivera is as good as Ozzie Smith defensively that is your opinion
|> and you are entitled to it.
|> 
|> I personally felt that Alvaro Espinoza was an exceptional fielder, in
|> fact one of the best in baseball, just by seeing him play.  I was flamed
|> to charcoal for that statement, but I defended myself by saying it was
|> MY opinion and not fact.


Hmmm.  "Luis Rivera is as good as Ozzie Smith defensively".  That's
"an opinion", not a statement of belief about a "fact"?

You seem to be confused about the difference between opinions and fact.
Is it an "opinion" to believe, say, that a Suzuki Samurai is a safer
car than a BMW 733?   Is believing in something false "having an
opinion" and thus, since everyone is entitled to their opinion, 
unassailable?

I really don't see why you persist in arguing that all beliefs no
matter how stupid are somehow sanctified by calling them "opinions".
 
 ...

|> According to some people on the net the "stats" prove that
|> Don Mattingly and Andy Van Slyke are mediocre (at best) fielders.  If you
|> talk to the people who see them all year (namely the players and managers)
|> you will find that this is simply not the case.

Based on watching about 90 Padres games this year, I believe that
Darrin Jackson is a better defensive CF than Van Slyke.  I did only
watch Van Slyke about 8 times, though, and twice I saw him appear
to misjudge catchable balls and let them fall for hits.  I bet I
saw DJ more than all opposing players and managers in the NL; and Van Slyke
about as much as any opposing players/managers.

... 
 
|> I don't think there is a defensive stat that can accurately measure a
|> player's performance.

I wholeheartedly agree.  However, we do know a lot about what we'd 
*like* to know - namely, how does this player compare with others
at the position in preventing runs?  And much of that can be estimated
by trying to find out how good the player is at turning balls
into outs and at preventing runners from advancing.  And there
is SOME data, of which the DA data is pretty good.  Why not use it?

Or is that letting facts get in the way of your opinions?


-- 
Dave DeMers			 ddemers@UCSD   demers@cs.ucsd.edu
Computer Science & Engineering	C-014		demers%cs@ucsd.bitnet
UC San Diego					...!ucsd!cs!demers
La Jolla, CA 92093-0114	(619) 534-0688, or -8187, FAX: (619) 534-7029
-- 
Dave DeMers			 ddemers@UCSD   demers@cs.ucsd.edu
Computer Science & Engineering	C-014		demers%cs@ucsd.bitnet
UC San Diego					...!ucsd!cs!demers
La Jolla, CA 92093-0114	(619) 534-0688, or -8187, FAX: (619) 534-7029