HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: dani@netcom.com (Dani Zweig)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
Subject: Re: _Wheels of Fire_, by Lackey and Shepherd (no spoilers!)
Date: 9 Sep 92 22:44:43 GMT
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services  (408 241-9760 guest)

sef@kithrup.com (Sean Eric Fagan):
>_Wheels of Fire_, by Mercedes Lackey and Mark Shepherd....is a "sequel" 
>to _Born to Run_, by Lackey and Larry Dixon...
>I liked _Born to Run_; I thought it was typical Lackey writing and story,
>and was enjoyable to read...I can't really say the same of _Wheels of Fire_.

I agree.  The writing was uninspired, and the connection to to "Born to
Run", or any of her other modern-Elf novels, was very tenuous.  The
plot elements which they had in common never became important to the
story.  And the characters -- thinly sketched right-wing religious
crazies, a child who's kidnapped for Evil Purposes, assorted stereotypes
masquerading as characters -- were never made real or interesting enough
for the reader to care about the outcome.

I suspect that it's safe to say that Lackey contributed little to this
book beyond some plot elements and her name on the cover.  Next time
we'll know that a Lackey+Shepherd book is basically a Shepherd book, and
that he's not very good.  There's nothing intrinsically wrong with an
author letting a more junior coauthor do most of the writing -- but
most authors who do this are more cautious about quality control,
knowing that the drawing power of their name is an exhaustable resource.

-----
Dani Zweig
dani@netcom.com

   If you're going to write, don't pretend to write down.  It's going to be the
   best you can do, and it's the fact that it's the best you can do that kills
   you! -- Dorothy Parker
From: ap1i+@andrew.cmu.edu (Andrew C. Plotkin)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
Subject: _Fire Upon the Deep_ jokes? (PUN SPOILERS)
Date: 13 Sep 92 17:00:56 GMT
Organization: School of Computer Science, Carnegie Mellon, Pittsburgh, PA

Just finished Vinge's _Fire Upon the Deep_, a most entertaining and
fascinating book....

Around the very end of the book, when Vinge shoved it in my face, I
finally noticed the pun in Lord Flenser's name. See, he was famous for
cutting people's skins off with knives, which is the direct meaning of
"Flenser" -- but *also* for shaping people's personalities with torture,
using behavioral conditioning. Thus, Lord "Skinner".

This led me to look for other awful jokes. However, I couldn't find
much. Many of the Tine natives have taken names which make sense when
translated into English -- the pilgrim Peregrine, Lord Steel (chosen for
the same reasons as Stalin in our world). But why Woodcarver? (Yes, her
kingdom was famous for carved wood, but I suspect deeper motives. Was
there some famous ruler of our history named Whittler?)

The only other thing that may be deliberate: The name of the species,
the Tines. It's explained as Johanna's reaction to their strap-on claw
weapons, but I don't trust that either. Given Vinge's obvious knowledge
of Usenet, and thus quite possibly Unix systems, I suspect that they're
called Tines because they're like one being that has been fork()'ed into
several bodies. 

Any others?

--Z

"And Aholibamah bare Jeush, and Jaalam, and Korah: these were the borogoves..."
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written,rec.arts.books
From: bkt@blacks.jpl.nasa.gov (Barrie Trinkle)
Subject: Re: Joan Aiken
Organization: Image Analysis Systems Group, JPL
Date: Wed, 9 Sep 1992 20:53:03 GMT

branwen@cerebus.ccc.amdahl.com (Karen Williams) writes:

>The books I know from the series are "The Wolves of Willoughby Chase,"
>"Black Hearts in Battersea," <I don't remember the third one>, and "The
>Cuckoo Tree." They're great. 

Yeah, and she's Conrad Aiken's daughter.

*Really*.  Trust me.
--
--------------------------------------------------------------------
..nothing is so fatal to maidenly delicacy of speech as the run of 
a good library.
				Robertson Davies, _Tempest Tost_
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
From: dstein@europa.math.ucla.edu (David Stein)
Subject: Re: Carve the Sky, by Alexander Jablokov
Reply-To: dstein@europa.math.ucla.edu (David Stein)
Organization: UCLA, Mathematics Department
Date: Sat, 12 Sep 92 07:14:33 GMT

In article <BuFqu8.K4y@math.uwaterloo.ca>, gamiddle@math.uwaterloo.ca
(Guy Middleton) writes:
|> I just finished Carve the Sky, by Alexander Jablokov (who is he?  I've never
|> heard of him before -- this is a first novel).

   Those who read Jablokov's short stories should not be surprised
   if "Carve the Sky" is a very strong book.  I suspect the superb
   novela "A Deeper Sea" few years ago was a precursor to the book. 
   In Dozoi's Best of the Year you can read "Living Will", another
   striking story of Jablokov.

 - David

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
I'm not a native speaker of English, so I'm not sure what I wrote.
Flames will be ignored unless you post them in perfect Czech.
================================ - David (the metamathician) - ===
From: Fritz.Niespodziany@p4.f41.n2403.z2.fidonet.org (Fritz Niespodziany)
Sender: postmaster@p2.f41.n2403.z2.fidonet.org
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
Subject: Terminology
Date: 03 Sep 92  23:34:00 EST


 RT> From: Robert.Turner@brunel.ac.uk (Robert Turner)
 RT> Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written

 RT> Hi

 RT> Right then, a question for all you 'cyberpunk' (and similar) fans out
 RT> there. We have:

 RT> Hardware    Machinery
 RT> Software    Programs
 RT> Wetware     Biological Software

 RT> Are there any other ?ware items around the fictional universe that I
 RT> have missed?  Is there a term for optical machines? Am I going mad?

Yes...and Yes: How about mind-enhancing drugs ?
(like in >>The Lawnmower-Man<<)

 * Origin:  kryton@krypta.in-berlin.de  (2:2403/41.4)
Organization: School of Computer Science, Carnegie Mellon, Pittsburgh, PA
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
Date: Thu, 10 Sep 1992 13:40:15 -0400 
From: "Andrew C. Plotkin" <ap1i+@andrew.cmu.edu>
Subject: Re: Hubbard stories ?
Distribution: na

Excerpts from netnews.rec.arts.sf.written: 10-Sep-92 Hubbard stories ?
MONTGOMERY ROBERT PH@alu (182)

> Would someone please provide pointers to the following,
> supposedly by L. Ron Hubbard, e.g., a book the story may
> be found in.

> 1. "Eye of Argon"

> 2. "Eulogy for Lisa"

I don't know about the second one. But "The Eye of Argon" is not by
Hubbard (as far as anyone knows); it's a classic piece of horrible
fantasy writing, never published, kept alive by fans passing Xeroxed
copies around at SF cons. I have a version on-line, which attributes
"Jim Theis" as the original author, but who knows. 

It's really, really bad. You most commonly see it at
"read-this-with-a-straight-face" competitions at cons -- most people
can't get through two paragraphs. Nobody knows if the author was kidding
when he wrote it.

--Z

-----------------------------------------
     Eyeing a slender female crouched alone at a nearby bench, 
Grignr advanced wishing to wholesomely occupy his time.  The 
flickering torches cast weird shafts of luminescence dancing over 
the half naked harlot of his choice, her stringy orchid twines of 
hair swaying gracefully over the lithe opaque nose, as she raised 
a half drained mug to her pale red lips.
-------------from "The Eye of Argon"---------

From: Fritz.Niespodziany@p4.f41.n2403.z2.fidonet.org (Fritz Niespodziany)
Sender: postmaster@p2.f41.n2403.z2.fidonet.org
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
Subject: Terminology
Date: 03 Sep 92  23:34:00 EST


 RT> From: Robert.Turner@brunel.ac.uk (Robert Turner)
 RT> Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written

 RT> Hi

 RT> Right then, a question for all you 'cyberpunk' (and similar) fans out
 RT> there. We have:

 RT> Hardware    Machinery
 RT> Software    Programs
 RT> Wetware     Biological Software

 RT> Are there any other ?ware items around the fictional universe that I
 RT> have missed?  Is there a term for optical machines? Am I going mad?

Yes...and Yes: How about mind-enhancing drugs ?
(like in >>The Lawnmower-Man<<)

 * Origin:  kryton@krypta.in-berlin.de  (2:2403/41.4)
From: swf@teradata.com (Stanley Friesen)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
Subject: Re: Fourth Giants book out
Date: 10 Sep 92 00:27:06 GMT
Reply-To: swf@tdat.teradata.com (Stanley Friesen)
Organization: NCR Teradata Database Business Unit

In article <Bu0CsM.6us@helios.physics.utoronto.ca> neufeld@helios.physics.utoronto.ca (Christopher Neufeld) writes:
|
|   A few weeks ago I posted a message that the fourth Giants book,
|_Entoverse_, by James P. Hogan was scheduled to be out in paperback in
|October, at least in Canada. Well, it's on the shelves now.
|   What did I remember seeing just this week about how books are released
|a month before they are scheduled?
|
Sigh, this belated sequel stuff that Asimov started is getting out of hand.

The Giants trilogy was complete as it stood.  No sequel was either needed
or desirable.

I mean good grief, what do you do after using a bleeping *time* *loop*
to create the villains retroactively!
-- 
sarima@teradata.com			(formerly tdatirv!sarima)
  or
Stanley.Friesen@ElSegundoCA.ncr.com
From: cc697@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Eric Oppen)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
Subject: Re: Mercedes Lackey
Date: 13 Sep 1992 08:20:05 GMT
Organization: Case Western Reserve University, Cleveland, OH (USA)
Reply-To: cc697@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Eric Oppen)
NNTP-Posting-Host: hela.ins.cwru.edu


In a previous article, katie@physics.Berkeley.EDU (Katie Schwarz) says:

>REBECCA@YaleVM.YCC.Yale.Edu (Rebecca Drayer) writes:
>>I have a question about Ms. Lackey's work.  Has she written any other Diana
>>Tregarde books besides Jinx High?  Also, is she planning to write any more
>>in the future?
>
>You only know Jinx High? That was the worst book I've ever
>read! It couldn't settle down to a point of view, most of the characters
>are unlikable, we see very little of Diana; in general it felt like the
>author just dashed it off without thinking it through.
>
>Fortunately, the other Diana Tregarde books are better: Children of
>the Night (set in the early 70s) and Burning Water (set in the mid 80s, but
>published first). I liked Children of the Night so much that as soon as I
>read it I rushed to the bookstore looking for sequels. It gave me a
>convincing feeling of terrible danger and brave dedication by the heroes.
>Burning Water is okay; it's told mostly from the viewpoint of Mark Valdez,

She's also pubbed at least one Diana Tregarde short story, in _Marion
Zimmer Bradley's Fantasy Magazine._

-- 
Note to the Constitutionally impaired:  "...the RIGHT of the people to KEEP
and BEAR arms..." means EXACTLY what it says!
Vote Libertarian, Grassroots, or any third party...the Demopublicans are a
bipartisan evil!        "Technomad"  cc697@cleveland.freenet.edu
From: dani@netcom.com (Dani Zweig)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
Subject: Re: Hubbard stories ?
Date: 14 Sep 92 05:33:32 GMT
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services  (408 241-9760 guest)

arthurc@sfsuvax1.sfsu.edu (Arthur Chandler):
>I did read one really fine Hubbard fantasy.  It's hard to find, but
>worth searching for.  It's called *Slaves of Sleep*, and works a clever
>variation on the wimp/superstud story.  Anybody else out there ever read
>this book?

This was one of my favorite books when I was in my early teens, though
I suspect I wouldn't enjoy it as much if I were to reread it now.  It
was slated to be reissued in November, in hardcover, together with
"Masters of Sleep" -- a sequel (I presume) that I'd never heard of -- but
the most recent Locus listing doesn't include it, so maybe it was pulled.
Uncomplicated, well-crafted wish-fulfillment fantasy.

-----
Dani Zweig
dani@netcom.com

Roses red and violets blew
  and all the sweetest flowres that in the forrest grew -- Edmund Spenser
From: matt@physics.berkeley.edu (Matt Austern)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
Subject: Re: Fourth Giants book out
Date: 10 Sep 92 10:59:29
Organization: Lawrence Berkeley Laboratory (Theoretical Physics Group)
Reply-To: matt@physics.berkeley.edu
NNTP-Posting-Host: physics.berkeley.edu
In-reply-to: swf@teradata.com's message of 10 Sep 92 00:27:06 GMT

In article <1029@tdat.teradata.COM> swf@teradata.com (Stanley Friesen) writes:

> The Giants trilogy was complete as it stood.  No sequel was either needed
> or desirable.

Actually, _Inherit the Stars_ was also complete as it stood, and _The
Gentle Giants of Ganymede_ almost so.  Each of the two later books in
the "trilogy" spent the first chapter or so creating puzzles where
there had been none before, and then spent the rest of the book
solving them.

I haven't read the fourth book yet (and I'm not sure that I will), but
it is entirely conceivable to me that if someone started reading Hogan
right now, without any knowledge of the history of publication, they
might see the fourth book as no more unnatural than the second or
third.
--
Matthew Austern                   Just keep yelling until you attract a
(510) 644-2618                    crowd, then a constituency, a movement, a
austern@lbl.bitnet                faction, an army!  If you don't have any
matt@physics.berkeley.edu         solutions, become a part of the problem!
From: edgar@function.mps.ohio-state.edu (Gerald Edgar)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
Subject: Re: Good writing (was Re: Piers Anthony)
Date: 15 Sep 1992 13:08:16 -0400
Organization: The Ohio State University, Dept. of Math.
NNTP-Posting-Host: function.mps.ohio-state.edu

>I'm sure Mark has read Joyce and Kafka.  I assume he's referring to
>Ralph Ellison, since this seems to be a list of non-skiffy writers.

A man wakes up one morning to find he has become a giant cockroach...
Sounds skiffy to me.
-- 
  Gerald A. Edgar                Internet:  edgar@mps.ohio-state.edu
  Department of Mathematics      Bitnet:    EDGAR@OHSTPY
  The Ohio State University      telephone: 614-292-0395 (Office)
  Columbus, OH 43210             -292-4975 (Math. Dept.) -292-1479 (Dept. Fax)
From: Fritz.Niespodziany@p4.f41.n2403.z2.fidonet.org (Fritz Niespodziany)
Sender: postmaster@p2.f41.n2403.z2.fidonet.org
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
Subject: Terminology
Date: 03 Sep 92  23:34:00 EST


 RT> From: Robert.Turner@brunel.ac.uk (Robert Turner)
 RT> Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written

 RT> Hi

 RT> Right then, a question for all you 'cyberpunk' (and similar) fans out
 RT> there. We have:

 RT> Hardware    Machinery
 RT> Software    Programs
 RT> Wetware     Biological Software

 RT> Are there any other ?ware items around the fictional universe that I
 RT> have missed?  Is there a term for optical machines? Am I going mad?

Yes...and Yes: How about mind-enhancing drugs ?
(like in >>The Lawnmower-Man<<)

 * Origin:  kryton@krypta.in-berlin.de  (2:2403/41.4)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
From: jen@athena.mit.edu (Jennifer Hawthorne)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
Subject: Re: HUGO Awards?
Date: 12 Sep 92 02:40:59 GMT
Organization: Massachusetts Institute of Technology

In article <1992Sep10.054351.17541@latcs1.lat.oz.au> agapow@latcs1.lat.oz.au (Paul Michael Agapow) writes:
>jen@athena.mit.edu (Jennifer Hawthorne) writes:

>>Connie Willis was robbed.
>
>Willis' story was amusing, but ground that she's covered before and
>better (vis "At the Rialto"). Me? i think Kessel was robbed ...
>

I haven't read "At the Rialto", so I wasn't aware she'd tackled the
theme before.  Is it collected in a novel yet? (I don't read pulps.)
I have her "Fire Watch" collection and would be quite glad to find
another collection of her stuff.  

I agree that Kessel was robbed as well, though I think I understand
peoples' objections to the story as an SF story.  As it happens, I
voted for "Buffalo" to place first and "In the Cretaceous" to place
second.   I put "Cretaceous" below Buffalo for only two reasons, one
relevant, the other probably not:  first, I felt that Buffalo was a
deeper story with more genuine heart to it than "Cretaceous", and
second, I was a bit alarmed by a subtext I perceived in "Cretaceous"
that I don't think Willis intentionally put in there -- namely, that
the way teachers should deal with the decline in educational standards
and encroachment by blithering "experts" is to leave the field of
education.  That I find an alarming attitude (although I think it's
probably sadly true to life as well.)  

Jen H.
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
From: xoanon@carina.unm.edu (timothy k istian soholt)
Subject: Re: HUGO Awards?
Date: Wed, 09 Sep 92 01:51:03 GMT
Organization: University of New Mexico, Albuquerque

In article <2X8PBR5J@cc.swarthmore.edu> 
hildebra@math.wisc.edu (Jeff Hildebrand) writes:

>ca572@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Mark L. Stackpole) writes:

>> The Kress story is being expanded into a novel to be released
>> next April.

The title ("Beggars in Spain")  sounds vaguely familiar. Did this
story appear in _Analog_ or _F&SF_?

>	While I happen to agree with you about Bujold (and I know at least a
>couple of fairly well-known authors agree as well), I think these awards
>show something else fairly clearly. Fen go very strongly for traditional
>styles.  Bujold keeps winning for pretty generic space opera, Landis won
>with the one short story that was even remotely hard-sf (and a lot of people
>said it read like a 50s story), and of course Asimov is about as traditional
>as you can get.

I'll warn you right off the bat that I happen to be a big fan of Bujold's
work. Now, with that out of the way, I think there's a lot to be said
for doing good things in traditional styles. Especially old, worn-out
styles like space opera. Admittedly, honoring _only_ (or nearly only)
traditional work is not a good thing, but don't knock something simply
because it's written in a "traditional" style or has "traditional"
themes.

-- Tim Soholt (xoanon@carina.unm.edu), The Man With No .sig
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
From: bobm@Ingres.COM (Bob McQueer)
Subject: Re: _Oracle_, by Mike Resnick (no spoilers!)
Date: 12 Sep 92 00:21:48 GMT

In <lairdb.716085017@crash>,
	dated 10 Sep 92 00:30:17 GMT,
	lairdb@crash.cts.com (Laird P. Broadfield) writes:

> Although Resnick does excellent characters, and his, ummm, scenery and
> stage dressing shall I call it? is worth the price of admission, I found
> _Soothsayer_ just a touch irritating: "It's been done before!", I thought.
> 
> The Soothsayer (the character) is basically the same gimmick as the Teela
> Brown gene.  Realized in a different way, but the same net effect.  As
> I said, Resnick has great characters (_Adventures_ is still one of my
> favorite "fun" books) and great settings, but this bothered me.

The same gimmick only in a very basic sense.  I must say that the similarity
did not strike me when I read the book.  If we're going to look at things
this way, practically EVERYTHING's been done before.

I've been reading Resnick lately - I enjoy his stuff as good solid SF
entertainment - not deep, but a lot of fun.  I enjoyed "Soothsayer", which
ends with an obvious setup for a sequel, although it isn't an incomplete
story without the sequel.  I'm glad to hear the sequel is out.  I've just
read "Santiago", also.  If you enjoyed the sort of "space opera full of
colorful characters" stuff in "Soothsayer", check out that one.  I also
liked "Second Contact", a nicely plotted little SF mystery-thriller.
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
Subject: Re: David Gemmel
From: cwes1@cs.aukuni.ac.nz (Clare West)
Date: Mon, 7 Sep 1992 00:06:18 GMT
Organization: Dept of CompSci, U of Auckland

HISC9016351D@LUST2.LATROBE.EDU.AU (MAMMONE,Robert) writes:
>
>Just read Legend, or Waylander, or the Shannow books.  Reading about
>Druss the Legend in battle still sends shivers up my spine.  Gemmel can
>write like no other.  What do you think?  

I really like his books - one of my favourite authors. Evidence: I own
*three* copies of _Legend_ - the one I bought after I *borrowed* a
friends copy (they were in the middle of reading it) and read it in
one night - the one I bought on a book buying spree after my 21st (all
those book tokens hehehehe) and didn't realise until I got home that
_Agains the Horde_ was the American title - and the one I bought at a
book signing while in Britain.

I guess he doesn't have a very high profile in America or else readers
of this group think him beneath them.

-- 
Oh, why didn't I listen when they said "Never do a   |  cwes1@cs.aukuni.ac.nz 
 masters and try to have a life at the same time"?   |  clare west
                 BigSis to Chris, Eric and Kristiina
                    Official Welcomer of the RFA
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
From: mvp@hsv3.lsil.com (Mike Van Pelt)
Subject: Re: Dreamer Fithp
Organization: LSI Logic/Headland Technology
Date: Tue, 15 Sep 1992 02:18:08 GMT

In article <1992Sep13.020329.4682@gagme.chi.il.us> pv@gagme.chi.il.us (Paul Vader) writes:
>In Pournelle's column in the premiere issue of "Science Fiction Age" he
>mentions the Citizen's Council on Space Policy ...
>He also mentions in passing that a spaceship conceived by this
>council will fly this year (does anybody know anything about that last bit?).

It's called DC-X.  It's a suborbital proof-of-concept scale model of a
single-stage-to-orbit craft.  Vertical takeoff, vertical balance-down-
on-the-rockets landing.  It owes a lot to Gary Hudson's
Phoenix, of "Fallen Angels" fame.

DC-X is being funded by SDIO.  Dirt cheap as such things go, only about
10 million or so, and it's on-time and under-budget, since it isn't
enjoying the tender micromangement of Congress.  DC-Y, the full-up
orbiter prototype, they expect to cost about a billion to develop, and
DC-1, the production model, is supposed to go for low-tens-of-millions
each.

>Witness Pournelle's pitiful cheerleading of Star Wars (the
>warmongering, not the movie) in recent years.

I've never understood what's so war-mongering about a defense that
defends rather than promise anihilation in revenge for being
anihilated, but then, I've never been into the Politically Correct
mindset.  Such as it is.

>Paul Vader           Systems Analyst, semi-lurker, Rollerblader,
>pv@gagme.chi.il.us   ex-Zen poet, and bleeding-heart liberal

So, we meet again.  I believe I crossed flamethrowers with you a few
times back on an old People's Message System in Chicago years ago.  Ah,
the good old days, when BBSes ran on Apple ][s, and there were so few
of them that you could keep up with the debates on all of 'em...  Is
"Lash LaRue" still posting messages somewhere?  Did anyone ever find
out his real name?
-- 
Mike Van Pelt                  An oxymoron, I think. The reality of Usenet."
LSI Logic/Headland Products             --  Dan'l Danehy-Oakes                    
sun!indetech!hsv3!mvp
mvp@hsv3.lsil.com