From: slzm9@cc.usu.edu
Newsgroups: soc.culture.african.american
Subject: Re: Violence, defense & Islam
Date: 28 Jul 92 14:44:35 MDT
Organization: Utah State University

In article <cbc1.711925257@Ra.MsState.Edu>, cbc1@Ra.MsState.Edu (christopher b carey) writes:
> slzm9@cc.usu.edu writes:
> 
>>In article <cbc1.711876704@Ra.MsState.Edu>, cbc1@Ra.MsState.Edu (christopher b carey) writes:
>>> 
>>>>Well, now we got another problem. *WHO* defines, what "defense" is and
>>>>when it is necessary? Hitler was defending the lebensraum of the Aryan
>>>>race, Bush was defending the "free" world in Iraq, Grenada, Vietnam
>>>>etc., Breshnev defended The Only Ideology in Afghanistan, Khomeini
> 
> [Good points about Germany getting screwed after WWI deleted.]
> 
> 
>>> Bush asked 'em to move, then moved in.  At least in Iraq.  I don't know
>>> about Vietnam, and Grenada is just a blur.
> 
>>   But was it George's job to move them? Anyway how about Panama I noticed
>>you didn't bring that up. Is it ok for a country to go into another
>>country, kill innocent civilians, arrest a high ranking official,
>>take him back and try him under the laws of a country that he is not
>>a citizen of? This is what we did in Panama. If you answer yes then
>>it should also be ok for:
> 
> No, I don't think it was George's job ALONE to do it.  And more of the
> force should have come from the UN forces that exist.  Panama wasn't
> mentioned in the aritcle I responded to, so I didn't say anything about it.
> I think we could have found a better way to bring Noriega to justice if
> it was all that important.  Like letting the people of Panama try him.
> 
> 
>>   Hussein to send forces that land in Washington, make George Bush
>>a prisoner take him back to Iraq, try him for war crimes, and then
>>lock him up for life.
> 
> Actually, I might help on that one.  :)

    Heh heh.

> 
> 
>>   The Saudi government to send undercover cops to the U.S. arrest
>>military officers that smuggled alcohol into Saudi Arabia during
>>the war, take them back to Saudi Arabia and try them.
> 
> I know someone who did this.  It was wrong and damn stupid, but they didn't get
> caught. This does not make what they did right, but since they didn't get 
> caught over there, we should be the ones to try them. 

   So you are going to try Americans for all the crimes they are accused
of by other countries. I may be wrong but won't the cost be somewhat
prohibitive. I mean Hussein alone will send a list of every military
person that walked on Iraqi soil to be tried for war crimes. But if
you only respect allies then the list will be almost as long from
Saudi Arabia for our military personnel and all the laws they broke:
alcohol, prostitution, other drugs, the list is long.

> 
>>> I don't agree with people going out and doing random violence, but if
>>> anyone were to pull a knife on me, and I could, I'd kill him/her with
>>> no problems about it.
>>> 
>>> Anyone disagree with this philosiphy???
>>>
> 
>>   Yes, vehemently. Chris think about this. If everyone had followed
>>this philosophy then most slaves would have been killed by southerners
>>near the end of the civil war. There would have been no evidence.
>>If this had happened you probably wouldn't be here right now.
>>   My point is that without forgiveness we are doomed. So disarm
>>this person, or run away, but don't kill him/her.
>> 
> Well, everyone has a different opinion.  It's what makes the world what
> it is.  Running away is always the first option.  Maiming someone would
> be good too, but then you get sued for all sorts of BS.  If the person
> drew the knife, I assume it was meant to kill me.  I take that kinda personal.
> 
> On the slave thing, you are quite correct.
> However, for the present day, I still think it's a good philosiphy.
> 

   While I cannot agree that violence in any case is a good philosophy
I respect your right to hold that opinion.

> Chris
> --
> Got those wishing I was out of school so I could see my girl on
> a regular basis blues.
> 

Peace, but not without justice,
Zip

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I speak for all Utahns.




Yea, right.

Newsgroups: soc.culture.african.american