From: wcsa@cbnews.cb.att.com (Willard C. Smith)
Subject: Re: Still no Retraction 
Organization: AT&T
Distribution: na
Date: Mon, 9 Nov 1992 20:20:42 GMT

In article <BxFGn7.EFo@acsu.buffalo.edu>, psyrobtw@ubvmsd.cc.buffalo.edu (Robert Weiss) writes:

>	In Willard's intro to the old material, he mentions that the 
>charges were that: 1) *most* ex-Mormons exaggerate their former 
>standing, and  2) that a few anti-Mormons joined the church just to quit, 
>so they can claim to be `ex-Mormons.'

Believe it or not, I agree with you Mr Weiss. I doubt that *most*
ex-Mormons do exaggerate their former standing and for me to say so was
wrong. However, there are still many very public ex-Mormons who do exactly
that, exaggerate their former standing. Such individuals make up a regular
Who's Who of Anti-Mormon activitives: Nelson, Cowdrey, Decker, and Baer to
name only a few prominate ex-Mormons in the last decade.

However, don't try to put words in my mouth that I don't necessarily agree
with. As I stated at the beginning of this latest round, back in September:

   I am not saying that ALL Mormons who leave the church are slobs, FAR FROM
   IT! Nor am I saying that ALL Mormons who leave the church were not
   legitimate" Mormons. I don't claim to know what constitues a "legitimate"
   Mormon. I am using the term generally to describe an active, practicing
   member of the LDS church, who has gone at least through the initial process
   of a spiritual conversion. I am sure that there are many ex-Mormons who were
   active, practicing Mormons. I also believe that the spiritual needs of many
   ex-Mormons were not met in the church and that is why they left.

   That some ex-Mormons join fundamentalistic Christian groups cannot be denied,
   but don't ignore the fact that they also join groups that the majority of
   Mormons would consider "fringe" Mormon groups, that some become Jews, and
   that some become atheists. Van Hale once recalled how Walter Martin (just
   before his death) had stated that he was a bit disappointed because the
   vast majority of Mormons whom he had influenced to leave the Church had
   actually become atheists instead of becoming fundamentalistic Christians.
   Van Hale believed that this was because the nature of the arguments used by
   fundamentalistic Christians against Mormons could also be turned against
   the basics of Christian fundamentalism.

   On the other hand, I must confess a bit of confusion when I've conversed
   with an individual over the net who's MAJOR CLAIM TO FAME is that he was a
   Mormon for the first 20 years of his life. That this individual is a
   former Mormon doesn't bother me so much as HOW he uses that former standing.


>	The second charge is really moot. If a few people join the LDS 
>to then quit, so that they can say that they are ex-LDS, so what? Is 
>there an implication that these people are not real ex-LDS?

The charge is basically over the lack of intellectual/spiritual integrity.
Why join a church that you don't believe in the first place unless you are
attempting to project yourself as an insider (which you aren't). 

Four and a half years ago, when I first began participating in this group, we
would see a Mormon Bashing secession occur once every six months. In the last
year and a half, the bashing secessions have become more frequent. They seem
now to flair up approximately every three months. Mr Weiss referred to Becky
Harris and suggested that the Mormons were at fault for STARTING the bashing.
Unfortunately for Mr Weiss I happen to have that "round" and Becky Harris
came in about midway. I suspect that Mr Weiss joined the group about midway
through the "round" as well.

The latest round began in September and is probably the longest one I have
ever seen. Stats on the latest round:

    Began Sept 14, 1992
    Everyone burned out about 1st week in November 1992
    Approximately 83000 lines posted

    Top Anti-Mormon Posters          Top Mormon Posters
    Rose   13,084 lines              Hunsaker  8837 lines
    Fuller 12,417 lines              Tensmeyer 5956 lines
    Clapp   3,836 lines              Hamblin   2008 lines

    I posted a total of 1822 lines, of which 1686 were posted since
    Oct 12th.

There is only one thing that I am sure of: "baiting" will continue, and Anti-
Mormons' curious expressions of "love" for Mormons will continue. My only
question is whether I want to continue to participate for another four and
a half years or spend my time more constructively studying Greek.
-- 

              Willard C. Smith
  Oh God, Make my Words Palatable and Sweet, | att!cbnews!iwtgo!wcsa
   Because I Might have to Eat all of Them.  | wcsa@iwtgo.att.com
Newsgroups: talk.religion.misc