HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: huber@vxcrna.cern.ch (Sepp Huber, CERN -4439,-6712)
Subject: Re: Null modem line
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41    
Keywords: help
Organization: European Organization for Nuclear Research, CERN
Date: Mon, 5 Oct 1992 18:46:00 GMT

In article <2OCT199219011486@vxcrna.cern.ch>, huber@vxcrna.cern.ch (Sepp Huber, CERN -4439,-6712) writes...
>In article <BvGL5q.H04@undergrad.math.waterloo.edu>, jmorton@cayley.uwaterloo.ca (John Morton) writes...
>>I am trying to make a long null modem line.(30+ feet)  I know that there
>>are only 5-6 connections required but I am not sure of the pins.  I am
>>trying to use a 6wire phone line with no luck.  This is what I have tried :
>> 
>>Computer 1         Computer 2
>>    Pin                Pin
>>     2 ---------------- 3
>>     3 ---------------- 2
>>    4&5 --------------  8
>>     7 ---------------- 7
>>     8  -------------- 4&5
>> 
>>Is this correct? Do I need more connections?  Is it just my 
>>saudering(sp, I know) job?  Should I shield the cable? If so how?
> 
>Depending on what the null-modem is intended to be used for, either:
>Connect only the data leads 2-3,3-2,7-7
>or
>add at least 
>    6&22 --------------- 20
>    20   --------------- 6&22
>-

I mean, 6&22 ---- 20   IN ADDITION to 8 --- 4&5 and the data leads!

Newsgroups: comp.sys.misc
From: jmorton@cayley.uwaterloo.ca (John Morton)
Subject: Null modem line
Keywords: help
Organization: University of Waterloo
Date: Thu, 1 Oct 1992 20:05:50 GMT

I am trying to make a long null modem line.(30+ feet)  I know that there
are only 5-6 connections required but I am not sure of the pins.  I am
trying to use a 6wire phone line with no luck.  This is what I have tried :

Computer 1         Computer 2
    Pin                Pin
     2 ---------------- 3
     3 ---------------- 2
    4&5 --------------  8
     7 ---------------- 7
     8  -------------- 4&5

Is this correct? Do I need more connections?  Is it just my 
saudering(sp, I know) job?  Should I shield the cable? If so how?

Please help,

         John.
From: mshute@cs.man.ac.uk (Malcolm Shute)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.misc
Subject: PERQ
Date: 28 Sep 92 15:10:21 GMT
Organization: Dept Computer Science, University of Manchester, U.K.

Having become the new owner of a pair of PERQs (stop laughing!) I would be
interested in exchanging notes with other PERQ users.

Since these were standard issue for all SERC contracts back in the early 80s,
in the UK, there must be hundreds of users who have acquired machines by some
garbage collection route or another.

I am surprised that there is not a comp.sys.perq newsgroup.

I believe that the machines were originally made by a company called
Golden River.  Can anyone point me in the direction of any existent
newsgroups, or owner's clubs?

Thanks in advance.
--

Malcolm SHUTE.         (The AM Mollusc:   v_@_ )        Disclaimer: all
From: GOODWIN@SMCVAX.BITNET (Dave Goodwin)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.misc
Subject: Looking for a machine
Date: 30 Sep 92 13:32:00 GMT
Organization: The Internet

I'd like to reacquire, for sentimental reasons :^), the first computer I ever
had; a Netronics ELF II.  If anyone has one of these hanging around, I'd be
interested in hearing from you.  I'd also be interested in hearing from
anyone wishing to part with an original Altair or an IMSAI 8080 with the
full front panels.  I do not particularly care if they have disk drives or
terminal I/O.  Thanks...

===========================================================================
Dave Goodwin                                   |
Assistant Director, Academic Computing         | We're all kinds of animals
-----------------------------------------------| coming here.
BitNet   : Goodwin@SMCVAX                      |
Ma Bell  : (802)654-2220                       | Occasional Demons, too.
US Mail  : Saint Michael's College             |
           Winooski Park, Colchester, VT 05439 |           -Jethro Tull
Ham Radio: N1HRO @ W1KOO.#NWVT.VT.USA.NA       |
===========================================================================
From: Z_STAFF_CL@SOUTHAMPTON-INSTITUTE.AC.UK
Newsgroups: comp.sys.misc
Subject: (none)
Date: 29 Sep 92 14:51:00 GMT
Distribution: world
Organization: The Internet

I am interested in joining your list/distribution.

Carol A Long,
        email     :  Z_STAFF_CL@UK.AC.SOUTHAMPTON-INSTITUTE
Information Technology Service, 
Southampton Institute of Higher Education
East Park Terrace, Southampton, England
        Post Code : SO9 4WW
	UK Fax No : (0703) 222259
DISCLAIMER - merely musings unless otherwise stated.
SPELLING   - entirely due to typing errors and poetic licence.
RELEASE    - repost at will, with acknowledgements to author.
Newsgroups: comp.sys.pen
From: george@delta.ee.ufl.edu (George L)
Subject: Re: PenWindows Recognition Speed
Date: Mon, 5 Oct 92 07:45:53 GMT

In article <1992Oct3.015716.27160@iti.gov.sg> yklo@iti.gov.sg writes:
>Hi:
>
>I am currently using the PenWindows on the NCR3125 and on an average it takes about 3-4
>secs for the machine to translate handwriting to digitized form.   Initially, I thought it was 
>because of the program that I've written, but the same speed goes for MS Word.   Could
>someone out there verify this?  (I've only 4M on the RAM).
>
>---
>+------------------------------------------------------+
>Name   : Lo, Yoong-Khong                 
>Company: Information Technology Institute  
>         National Computer Board, Singapore 
>Email  : yklo@iti.gov.sg  or yoongkhong@itivax.bitnet
>Fax    : (65)779-5966
>+------------------------------------------------------+
>
Judging from the tone of your post, I would say that you might want to try 
changing the PenWindows Recognition Delay setting. I think this is in the 
Pen Pallette application, (but I don't have PenWindows on this system so I 
can't verify this now).

Which raises a valid question. MicroSoft will not sell PenWindows directly 
to an individual. They say it is the responsibility of the hardware merchant 
to provide it. However, while some lower cost pen input device suppliers 
have PenWindows drivers written, they are afraid to invest in thousands of 
copies of the full PenWindows extensions software packages.

Why? One reason I have heard, is that they are afraid MicroSoft will include 
the extensions in their next revision of Windows (as MS apparently did with 
some of their multi-media extensions). This would leave the small hardware 
developers stuck with a lot of unsalable software packages.

So, even though I have a pen tablet, and pen interface controls (that I 
shelled out extra bucks to get in the VB Professional Toolkit), I can't use 
it since I don't have PenWindows on this machine. I know someone will say 
that all I need to get is the full Win3.1 SDK, which has some of the files.
But now we are talking about even more money, and for something I don't really 
need for this application.

Can someone from MS offer a solution?

Newsgroups: comp.sys.pen
From: zucker@raid.dell.com (Brian Zucker)
Subject: New systems
Reply-To: zucker@raid.dell.com (Brian Zucker)
Organization: Dell Computer Co
Date: Mon, 5 Oct 1992 18:49:14 GMT

Does anyone have any information on new pen-based hardware systems to be
released?  I am particularly interested in machines with reflective or
transflective displays.

Brian
zucker@raid.dell.com
--
From: caroma@ai.mit.edu (Carl R. Manning)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.pen
Subject: Re: Dylan? (Dylan FAQ)
Date: 26 Sep 92 22:34:09 GMT
Distribution: na
Organization: MIT Artificial Intelligence Lab
In-reply-to: robbins@babbage.seas.ucla.edu's message of 24 Sep 92 17:35:39 GMT

In article <8150@lee.SEAS.UCLA.EDU> robbins@babbage.seas.ucla.edu (Jason Robbins) writes:
   From: robbins@babbage.seas.ucla.edu (Jason Robbins)
   Date: 24 Sep 92 17:35:39 GMT

   Can someone please tell me where to get more info on Dylan?
   Are there implementations for the Mac, Unix, or DOS?

From the Dylan FAQ:
___________________________________________________________________________

Dylan(tm) FAQ September 21, 1992

This memo answers questions which are frequently asked about the Dylan
programming language.

The latest version of this memo is available by anonymous ftp from
cambridge.apple.com in the file /pub/dylan/dylan-faq.txt. We expect
to make other Dylan documents available for ftp from the same directory.

[...rest omitted to save bandwidth...]
Newsgroups: comp.sys.pen
From: shendry@silver.ucs.indiana.edu (Slamet Hendry)
Subject: Need info on how to get hardware
Organization: Indiana University
Distribution: usa
Date: Tue, 6 Oct 1992 00:58:49 GMT

I am interested to buy a pen computer running PenPoint, & I don't have
any specific preference for hardware. How or where can I get one?

If this helps at all, I live in Bloomington, Indiana. About 1 hr from
Indianapolis, IN, & about 3 hrs from Cincinnati, OH.

Thank you much in advance.

- Slamet Hendry
  (shendry@silver.ucs.indiana.edu)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.pen,ba.seminars
From: ggolden@msen.com (Glenn Golden)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.pen
Subject: EO (Hobbit & GO)
Date: 2 Oct 1992 02:15:10 GMT
Organization: MSEN, Inc. -- Ann Arbor, MI
NNTP-Posting-Host: heifetz.msen.com
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1 PL6]

I saw in last week's info world that there was
going to be a news conference today (10/1)
in redwood city kicking off a new company,
which I think is called "EO".  It is backed
by AT&T, and some other companies.  It will
produce a computer / communications device
based on the hobbit and the GO operating system.

I think this is the Hobbit + GO deal we have
been heading about!  Does any one have more
information?

- Glenn R. Golden, Dexter, MI
  (home) ggolden@msen.com (public access INTERNET)
  (work) ggolden@comshare.com (a nice place to work)

Newsgroups: comp.sys.pen
From: poon@CAMIS.Stanford.EDU (Alex Poon)
Subject: pen computing + voice/speech
Organization: Stanford University, California, USA
Date: Wed, 30 Sep 1992 00:50:30 GMT

I'm interested in experimenting with pen-based computing in conjunction with
both digitized voice and speech recogintion.  Anyone have any suggestions
on what platform I should choose?  I am unaware of any easy methods of
adding voice or speech to PenPoint or Pen Windows.

Thanks,
  poon@camis.stanford.edu
From: ggolden@msen.com (Glenn Golden)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.pen
Subject: Re: Pen Macintosh
Date: 29 Sep 1992 02:28:58 GMT
Organization: MSEN, Inc. -- Ann Arbor, MI
NNTP-Posting-Host: heifetz.msen.com
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1 PL6]

Arno Gourdol (arno@apple.com) wrote:
: What would you rather buy? A Newton, a PowerBook or an hypothetical Pen
: Macintosh?

I would rather have a Newton, perhaps a bit larger (but still *very*
portable and holdable), but with full compatability with my Mac (and my
DOS machine while we are at it) to be able to share applications (?) and
information.

A pen on a Mac, unless it is a new form of Mac (which might look more
like a Newton), would not do much.

By the way ... Arno - If you have any Newton information (being at the
big A and all), this is a *great* place to share it!

- Glenn R. Golden, Dexter, MI
  ggolden@msen.com  -or-
  ggolden@comshare.com

Newsgroups: comp.sys.pen,msen.events
From: nagle@netcom.com (John Nagle)
Subject: Re: complete liquidation of momenta / 14 Oct 1992, MT View CA
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services  (408 241-9760 guest) 
Date: Sat, 3 Oct 1992 17:49:25 GMT

emv@msen.com (Edward Vielmetti) writes:
>electronic news, 28 sep 1992, p23 (the "auction" page) reports 
> Major Public Auction
> by order of
> Momenta Corporation
> subject to US Bankruptcy Court Approval
> Complete Liquidation of pen-based computer company, featuring
> Computers: Over 100 New and Demo Momenta State-of-the-art Pen-based
>  Computers with Microsoft Windows for Pen Computing Software [...]
>Weds, 14 Oct 1992, 10 AM, 295 N Bernardo Ave, MT View CA.
>Call +1 800 445 DOVE for a free color brochure.

        Ross-Dove, which does most major Silicon Valley liquidation 
auctions, is a great auctioneering firm - if you're selling.  Prices
at their auctions are quite high, sometimes ABOVE list.  

					John Nagle
Newsgroups: comp.sys.pen
From: jyang@herky.cs.uiowa.edu (Jun Yang)
Subject: Re: EO (Hobbit & GO)
Date: Mon, 5 Oct 1992 06:16:31 GMT
Organization: University of Iowa, Iowa City, IA, USA

From article <1agbbsINNcvf@nigel.msen.com>, by ggolden@msen.com (Glenn Golden):
> I saw in last week's info world that there was
> going to be a news conference today (10/1)
> in redwood city kicking off a new company,
> which I think is called "EO".  It is backed
> by AT&T, and some other companies.  It will
> produce a computer / communications device
> based on the hobbit and the GO operating system.
> 
> I think this is the Hobbit + GO deal we have
> been heading about!  Does any one have more
> information?
> 
> - Glenn R. Golden, Dexter, MI
>   (home) ggolden@msen.com (public access INTERNET)
>   (work) ggolden@comshare.com (a nice place to work)
> 

You can call into our main number (415) 903-8100 and Gill will
direct you to a right person in marketing for the information
you want about EO.

Jun Yang
EO, Inc.

------------------------------------
I speak for myself.
From: david@llustig.palo-alto.ca.us (David Schachter)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.pen
Subject: This week's WPDO meeting
Date: Mon, 05 Oct 92 16:23:10 PDT
Organization: Greenwire Consulting, Palo Alto, CA, USA

       >>>>  THERE  ***WILL*** BE A WPDO MEETING THIS MONTH.  <<<<

An error crept into the white WPDO insert in the recent PenPointers.  The
insert says the next WPDO meeting will be in November; actually, it will be
this Thursday, October 8, at 7 pm, at GO headquarters in beautiful Foster
City, California.  I'm sure Paul Williams (paulw@netcom.com) will have more
to say about the meeting.  This note is just to correct the error.

Last month, we had a ratio of about $1.20 of (GO-supplied) cookies per person.
For this month's meeting, let's see if we can get the bodycount up, and reduce
the ratio to $1.00 per person.  (Nerd humor. :-)

______________________________________-______________________________________
David Schachter                                 david@llustig.palo-alto.ca.us
801 Middlefield Road, #8                  ...!{mips,decwrl,sgi}!llustig!david
Palo Alto, CA  94301-2916                 After 10 am, voice: +1 415 328 7425
Newsgroups: comp.sys.pen
From: perry@vaxb.acs.unt.edu
Subject: Re: Pen Macintosh
Organization: University of North Texas
Date: Tue, 29 Sep 1992 23:56:14 GMT

Hello -
	Last week's MacWeek had a blurb.  Lord-high Sculley announced
that there will be two versions of the Newton released next year.  The
one we are all familiar with, and a 6"X8" model that is about 2x the price,
and of course will do more.  Sculley also mentioned that the larger will 
offer more collabritive capabilities.  Go figure...
- BPG
Newsgroups: comp.sys.pen
From: arno@apple.com (Arno Gourdol)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.pen
Subject: Pen Macintosh
Date: 28 Sep 92 18:14:35 GMT
Organization: Apple Computer, Inc.
X-Useragent: Nuntius v1.1.1d11
X-Xxdate: Mon, 28 Sep 92 11:14:18 GMT
X-Xxmessage-Id: <A6EC998A1E02047E@arno.apple.com>

First, I am not representing Apple.

There is a lot of hype around Pen Computing these times. There is even
Windows for Pen Computing. 
Do you think there should be "Apple Extensions for Pen Computing"?

How would you view these? What do you think those extensions should
include
so that you could say that "Apple did the things right". What do you
expect?

What would you like to do with a Pen Macintosh?
Write a thesis? Fill-in forms? Take notes?

Do you consider that a Pen Macintosh would compete with Newton?
Would you do the same tasks with Newton than with a Pen Macintosh?

What would you rather buy? A Newton, a PowerBook or an hypothetical Pen
Macintosh?

Lastly, I am still not representing Apple.
If you want to voice any of your concern about Apple policies, write
(no e-mail, no phone, no fax (don't flame me for that, instead, complain
at
the adress below)) at:

        Apple Customer Assistance Center
        20525, Mariani Avenue
        Cupertino, CA 95014
        USA

This is the right place to do it. You will be heard.
--
Minds, like parachute, only function when open.
I did it, I did it!
Newsgroups: comp.sys.pen
From: danforth@riacs.edu (Douglas G. Danforth)
Subject: Re: Pen Macintosh
Organization: RIACS, NASA Ames Research Center
Date: Mon, 28 Sep 92 20:47:34 GMT


]From comp.sys.pen Mon Sep 28 13:27:17 1992
]From: arno@apple.com (Arno Gourdol)
]Date: 28 Sep 92 18:14:35 GMT
]Newsgroups: comp.sys.pen
]Subject: Pen Macintosh
]
...
]
]Do you consider that a Pen Macintosh would compete with Newton?
]Would you do the same tasks with Newton than with a Pen Macintosh?
]
]What would you rather buy? A Newton, a PowerBook or an hypothetical Pen
]Macintosh?
]

I have three main reasons for wanting pen functionality (1) portability,
(2) direct scribling of diagrams and equations, (3) math, diagram cleanup.

If by "Pen Macintosh" you simply mean replacing the mouse with a pen on a
tablet then portability is out, direct visual feedback is out (unless you can
write on the screen, which is awkward), and the cleanup process would be
given poor input since the hand-eye coordination is not very good (workable
but...).

So, my vote would be in the negative.  

Give me a true portable pen notebook (9 x 6 1/2" foldable) that I can take to
McDonalds so I can do my research (I'm not kidding).

- Doug Danforth

Newsgroups: comp.sys.pen
From: u009@csx.cciw.ca (G. Stewart Beal)
Subject: Re: Microsoft Pen Windows
Organization: Canada Centre for Inland Waters
Date: Fri, 2 Oct 1992 13:04:55 GMT

In article <36123@twerp.ease.arco.com> cahuja@twerp.ease.arco.com (Chander Ahuja) writes:
>
>
>On a slightly different aspect of Pen Windows, what is the ability for the user
> ... deleted
>PS>> along the same lines, how abouts GO....
>
You can swap the recognizer on the fly.
 
Regards, Stu Beal, VE3MWM, U009@CS.CCIW.CA,
National Water Research Institute, Burlington, Ontario, Canada.
 
"She was a definite '10': a '5' with a high paying job." - Cole B. Kiser
From: csh@maybeck.ced.berkeley.edu (Chuck Han)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.pen
Subject: digitizing
Date: 4 Oct 1992 23:44:52 GMT
Organization: University of California
NNTP-Posting-Host: maybeck.ced.berkeley.edu

What is the minimum resolution for character recognition that the
digitizing component of a pen-based system must have these days?

Thanks in advance.
--

	*** Chuck Han	csh@ced.berkeley.edu	csh@ucbced.bitnet ***
		*** University of California at Berkeley ***
	  *** Department of Architecture, The Building Process ***
Newsgroups: comp.sys.pen,aus.computers
From: bill@extro.ucc.su.OZ.AU (William Logan Lee)
Subject: Re: Pen computing in Australia
Organization: /etc/organization
Date: Sat, 26 Sep 1992 11:06:24 GMT

In article <1992Sep22.071129.238@fulcrum.oz.au> steve@fulcrum.oz.au (Steve Taylor) writes:
>Could anyone give me any pointers to Australian (preferably Victorian)
>dealers in pen based computing systems and software. This includes
>dedicated pen based computers, pen peripherals for normal computers,
>vendors of pen based operating systems and software, etc.

Although I am not writing this with a pen-based computer, I am doing a lot of
the repeditive tasks while reading USEnet with the aid of a neat device
called Voice Navigator. This is a hardware & software package for Macintosh
computers that is a noise recognition and macro package. (Since it does not
recognise continuous speech, nor is it speaker independent, then I don't think
that I could call it voice recognition).  It works quite well with a lot of
actions and the international phonetic alphabet can be used to simulate
individual presses of keys.  The mouse can also be controlled verbally, and
controlling software has the same type of capabilities that QuicKeys has.
Extra commands can be added whenever needed, with the ability to automatically
load specific language files that contain application-specific commands.
e.g When you run MS-Word, the commands that relate to MS-Word are auto-
matically loaded at the same time.

So why did I buy it (at about A$1000 [US$399])?  Because my forearms and
wrists were hurting from too many hours at the keyboard.  I can read all
the groups I need, and don't need to touch the keyboard or mouse once.
To me it is worth it - your milage may vary. To input quantities of text
with this would take too long, unless your vocabulary was limited.  Actual
errors in recognition is quite good, although you might have to watch your
posture to avoid back/neck strain in talking directly into the microphone.

Even so, I look forward to device-independent continuous-speech voice-
recognition devices.  So far I have not seen anything that currently
meets these criteria - even the minimal use of a pen/stylus could aggravate
the RSI.

Bill Lee
[The above was touch-typed on a keyboard]
Newsgroups: comp.sys.pen
From: mattsq@microsoft.com (Matthew Squires)
Subject: Re: pen computing + voice/speech
Date: 30 Sep 92 06:49:15 GMT
Organization: Microsoft Corporation

In article <poon.717814230@CAMIS> poon@CAMIS.Stanford.EDU (Alex Poon) writes:
>I'm interested in experimenting with pen-based computing in conjunction with
>both digitized voice and speech recogintion.  Anyone have any suggestions
>on what platform I should choose?  I am unaware of any easy methods of
>adding voice or speech to PenPoint or Pen Windows.
>
>Thanks,
>  poon@camis.stanford.edu

Microsoft is releasing Voice Pilot, a simple speech recognition
app, with their sound system package.  Last week's infoworld had
a front page story about it.

Matt Squires
mattsq@microsoft.com
From: arno@apple.com (Arno Gourdol)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.pen
Subject: Re: Pen Macintosh
Date: 29 Sep 92 18:58:31 GMT
Organization: Apple Computer, Inc.
X-Useragent: Nuntius v1.1.1d11
X-Xxdate: Tue, 29 Sep 92 11:58:12 GMT
X-Xxmessage-Id: <A6EDF5546101047E@arno.apple.com>

Subject: Re: Pen Macintosh
From: Douglas G. Danforth, danforth@riacs.edu
Date: 28 Sep 92 20:47:34 GMT
In article <1992Sep28.204734.13880@riacs.edu> Douglas G. Danforth,
danforth@riacs.edu writes:
>I have three main reasons for wanting pen functionality (1) portability,
>(2) direct scribling of diagrams and equations, (3) math, diagram
cleanup.
>
>If by "Pen Macintosh" you simply mean replacing the mouse with a pen on a
>tablet then portability is out, direct visual feedback is out (unless
you can
>write on the screen, which is awkward), and the cleanup process would be
>given poor input since the hand-eye coordination is not very good
(workable
>but...).

I'm not going to give you specs here, but you can imagine a Pen Macintosh
to be somewhat like a PowerBook, with no keyboard and yes, you'd write
on the screen.

This said, would you find any use in a Desktop Pen Macintosh?

Arno.
--
Minds, like parachute, only function when open.
I did it, I did it!
From: david@llustig.palo-alto.ca.us (David Schachter)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.pen
Subject: Videotape orders were placed today
Date: Mon, 05 Oct 92 16:21:16 PDT
Organization: Greenwire Consulting, Palo Alto, CA, USA

Videotape orders were placed today.

Jim Presley:   Tapes 1-4
Bob Donald:    Tapes 1-4
Rental tapes:  Tapes 1-4 (WPDO members can rent tapes; contact me or Paul
                          Williams <paulw@netcom.com> for more information)
Marcia Mason:  Tape 4 (Archaeology and PenPoint)
Bill Sand:     Tape 4
Tan Kwang Han: Tape 4

Please let me know if this summary is incorrect or incomplete.

The Archaeology tapes should be ready Thursday and other tapes on Friday.
If you are on the above list and come to the Thursday WPDO meeting, I'll
try to have the tapes there for you to pick up and avoid the shipping fee.
Please note: tapes CANNOT be shipped/delivered until payment is received.

______________________________________-______________________________________
David Schachter                                 david@llustig.palo-alto.ca.us
801 Middlefield Road, #8                  ...!{mips,decwrl,sgi}!llustig!david
Palo Alto, CA  94301-2916                 After 10 am, voice: +1 415 328 7425
Newsgroups: comp.sys.pen