HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: mpolen@gelato.mips.com (Michael Polen)
Newsgroups: talk.politics.misc,ca.politics,ba.politics
Subject: Re: Fear or loathing?  So what?
Date: 29 Jul 1992 19:28:39 GMT
Organization: MIPS Computer Systems, Inc.
Distribution: world
NNTP-Posting-Host: gelato.mips.com

In article <1992Jul29.175814.4788@dazixca.ingr.com>, ronp@dazixca.ingr.com (Ron Phillips) writes:
|> In article <l7dheqINNd07@spim.mips.com> mpolen@gelato.mips.com (Michael Polen) writes:
|> >
|> >
|> >According to Dr. Lendon Smith, well known child psychologist, the highest 
|> >incendences of pre-marital pregnancies among girls below college age is
|> >found in strict religious communities.
|>                  ^^^^^^^^^
|> Was there a purpose for putting the religious "spin" on this 
|> or did you not read that the highest incidents are in the
|> inner-city Latino and Afro-American communities?  Coincidently they
|> they may be "strict religious communities", but the underlying causes
|> are probably poverty, poor education and other socio-economic factors
|> which require our involvement to resolve.

Two items.  1) I meant to time stamp my info, because I heard him speak
in 1982.  2) He said the highest incidence per capita was in rural
bible-belt communities and in specifically religious communities such
as Amish (his example).  He said that there was no correlation to race.

This conflicts with your statement that the highest incedents are
in inner-city Latino- and Afro-American communities.  We apparently need
better data, and need to focus on per-capita figures, not per-community
figures.

I am open to any data you or anyone would have which would help
clarify this conflict.  I'd be very interested in finding out if
Smith was incorrect, or even if the demographics have changed in the
last 10-12 years.
Newsgroups: talk.politics.misc
From: rdippold@cancun.qualcomm.com (Ron Dippold)
Subject: Re: Libertarian Platform
Organization: Qualcomm, Inc., San Diego, CA
Date: Thu, 23 Jul 1992 20:18:41 GMT

mpolen@gelato.mips.com (Michael Polen) writes:
>T. Archer writes:
>|> Sure.  But if my children are in a situation where they are getting access 
>|> to alcohol or drugs before they are able to be responsable, then I am not 
>|> supervising them closely enough, and it is MY fault.  I maintain that it is 
>|> a parent's responsability to raise children, not the state's.

>Have you raised children to the age of responsibility?  The only way to
>"supervise them closely enough" is to be a jailor, not a parent.  Not
>on my watch.

So now you'd like to force everybody else to by a jailor for you.  No
thanks.  Supervision doesn't have to mean hovering over them constantly.
-- 
I don't have to take this abuse from you - I've got hundreds of
people waiting to abuse me
Xref: sparky talk.politics.misc:35038 alt.politics.clinton:149
From: garry@alice.att.com (garry hodgson)
Newsgroups: talk.politics.misc,alt.politics.clinton
Subject: Re: Which of you is 'good enough' ?
Summary: not me
Date: 21 Jul 92 21:05:45 GMT
Article-I.D.: alice.23266
Distribution: usa
Organization: AT&T Bell Laboratories, Murray Hill NJ

In article <1992Jul20.195741.27981@bnr.ca>, snoopy@crchh426.BNR.CA (Antonio Tello) writes:
	Just out of curiosity...

	Could my fellow 'netters' answer these two questions (please post)

	1) how old are you ?

35.

	2) could your history survive the media scrutiny required to be
	elected president ?

Not a chance.  Which is a rather pathetic comment on the process, and 
the current mindset of this country, as by most objective standards,
my life has been pretty straitforward and positive.  I did, however,
grow up and attend school at a time when things were a lot different
than today, and I doubt some of my behaviors would meet with the approval
of today's latter-day Puritans.

-- 
Garry Hodgson			A slow winter day
AT&T Bell Labs			A night like forever
garry@alice.att.com		Sink like a stone
att!alice!garry			Float like a feather
Xref: sparky talk.politics.misc:35505 ca.politics:5959
From: kane@buast7.bu.edu (Hot Young Star)
Newsgroups: talk.politics.misc,ca.politics
Subject: Re: aids conference in cuba
Date: 23 Jul 92 14:13:17 GMT
Followup-To: talk.politics.misc
Organization: Astronomy Department, Boston University, Boston, MA, USA

In article <11375@optilink.UUCP> cramer@optilink.UUCP (Clayton Cramer) writes:

>For all the whining the homosexual community does about wanting
>the government to DO something about AIDS, the one strategy that
>clearly works -- quarantine and massive testing -- is the one
>strategy that is completely unacceptable to them.

Not true at all. Anonymous free testing is readily available in most
cities in the US. So is counseling, specifically to educate the participant
on just how reliable the tests are. I was able to receive free, anonymous
tests every six months until I began my monogamous relationship, and thereafter
I've used it to my advantage several more times...

The gay community has made testing an important priority ever since 
HIV was found to contribute to AIDS and a test was made available.

As for quarantines, such an idea should be reprehensible to a Libertarian.
As it is for many, dare I say virtually all, gay men.

Brian.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
kane@{buast7,astro}.bu.edu (Hot Young Star) Astronomy Dept, Boston University,
Boston, MA 02215.=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
Xref: sparky talk.politics.misc:36777 ca.politics:6194
From: mpolen@gelato.mips.com (Michael Polen)
Newsgroups: talk.politics.misc,ca.politics
Subject: Re: aids conference in cuba
Date: 31 Jul 1992 17:32:12 GMT
Organization: MIPS Computer Systems, Inc.
Distribution: world
NNTP-Posting-Host: gelato.mips.com

In article <11490@optilink.UUCP>, cramer@optilink.UUCP (Clayton Cramer) writes:
|> In article <ntggm18@fido.asd.sgi.com>, dauber@sgi.com (Jeff Dauber) writes:
|> > In article <11444@optilink.UUCP> cramer@optilink.UUCP (Clayton Cramer) writes:
|> > >Excesses of the 70s?  Here's a recent posting from soc.motss, 
|> > >discussing THIS year.
|> > 
|> > Clayton, you accuse all homosexuals of sleeping with many many people.  This
|> > is just not true.  Once posting does not make a community.  Once person
|> > does not make a trend.
|> > 
|> > Your ability to comprehend this seems to be non-existant.
|> > 
|> > FWA
|> 
|> One person?  Aren't you reading soc.motss?  Le JoJo was complaining
|> quite recently about a San Francisco bartender that had just arrived
|> in Paris, and was taking on everyone for sex, without engaging in
|> safe[r] sex.
|> 
|> These sort of postings appear with some regularity in soc.motss.
|> Not as often as postings by NAMBLA's spokesman, but they do keep
|> appearing.
|> 
First, if you take examples and extrapolate to a population, you have no
way of knowing how representative your sample is.  In fact, given that
homosexuality is not readily acceptable, those homosexuals who quietly
enjoy monogamous relationships probably don't post, even in soc.motss.

Second, even amoung heterosexual males, if you believe all of the locker
room talk about how often, how many, and who does it, you should stay
away from bridge salesmen.  Don't believe everything you hear just
because it proves you point.

Third, Wilt, Magic, et al show that hetero promicsuity is alive and well,
and that "safe sex" is still a goal to work toward.  We are not there.
Newsgroups: talk.politics.misc
From: crussel@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (Carol A Russell)
Subject: Re: Question about Clinton's "didn't inhale" remark
Organization: The Ohio State University
Distribution: usa
Date: Tue, 21 Jul 1992 15:14:58 GMT

Paul - perhaps you would like to give us the source of this information on 
thirteen women?  That seems like an awful lot of affairs for a man who's only 
in his 40's - or any man, for that fact.

So that we may all "get it right", enlighten us.

Carol
Newsgroups: talk.politics.misc,ca.politics,ba.politics
From: dauber@sgi.com (Jeff Dauber)
Subject: Re: Fear or loathing?  So what?
Organization: Silicon Graphics, Inc.
Date: Thu, 30 Jul 1992 23:41:30 GMT

In article <veal.160@utkux1.utk.edu> veal@utkux1.utk.edu (David L. Veal) writes:
>In article <nv3dah0@fido.asd.sgi.com> dauber@sgi.com (Jeff Dauber) writes:
>
>>In article <03pmdjj.phil@netcom.com> phil@netcom.com (Phil Ronzone) writes:
>
> 
>     There are a couple of people in this world I flat out despise.  (They 
>would, in Newspeak, be term Personality Disadvantaged)  I want nothing to
>do with them.  As a result, I stay away from them.

You are saying something different from what phil is saying.  You are saying
"I stay away from them".  Phil is saying "I want to keep them away from me".

Can you see the difference between these two positions?


>>>If you "are" something that most people don't like, then most people
>>>will not want to associate with you.
>
>>What you don't realize is that you cannot avoid dealing with homosexuals.
>>You cannot avoid us, we are everywhere.  You want to avoid telling your
>>daughter about homosexuals.  She will meet homosexuals on her own, whether
>>or not you try and protect her.  
>
>     If we cannot avoid dealing with homosexuals, why does the government
>need to step in?

Because you can try and keep us out.  It is the trying to discriminate
that needs to be eliminated. 

Even if you try and do it, you will not succeed with everyone.



>     When it comes down to it, you don't seem to want an end to 
>discrimination, you only want discrimination placed on the things
>*you* find unpleasant, and that's a whole different thing.

Don't put words in my mouth.  I want discrimination to be
eliminated.  Period.


>>>Even though, at the same time, it seems clear that there are
>>>large numbers of people that YOU don't want to associate with.
>
>>Name one group of people that I do not want to deal with... I bet you 
>>cannot...  I would happily have lunch with you and clayton.  I'll
>>even buy it.  I know Metzger (head of WAR) fairly well.  I am not the one
>>who is insisiting on the juvenile right to not deal with any group I
>>choose not to.
>
>     Convicted mass murderers.  Rapists.  Anyone who wants to beat gays
>senseless.  

Metzger is all of these things.  I know rapists, I know gay bashers, and
yes, I know a mass murderer.



The important thing to realize is that I don't want phil to invite homosexuals
into his life.  I want him to stop trying to keep us out of places he might
go.


There is a difference between not associating with someone and making it
so that you have no contact with someone.



FWA
Newsgroups: talk.politics.misc
From: carroll@cs.uiuc.edu (Alan M. Carroll)
Subject: Re: Vote for Evil (was Thoughts on '92)
Organization: Technophiles Inc. - Engineers with Attitude
Distribution: usa
Date: Fri, 24 Jul 1992 23:32:18 GMT

Seen in a .sig: "CCC: Campus Crusade for Cthulhu - when you're tired
of the _lesser_ of two evils".

-- 
Alan M. Carroll          "Weren't there yams involved, too?" - J. Ockerbloom
Epoch Development Team   
Urbana Il.               "I hate shopping with the reality-impaired" - Susan
Xref: sparky talk.politics.misc:35954 talk.politics.theory:3018 alt.discrimination:3725
From: moynihan_r@apollo.hp.com (Robert Moynihan)
Subject: Re: Perot at NAACP: "You People" Comment
Date: Wed, 29 Jul 1992 20:24:59 GMT
Organization: Hewlett-Packard Corporation, Chelmsford, MA

In article <Jul.14.23.39.59.1992.16453@romulus.rutgers.edu> kaldis@romulus.rutgers.edu (Theodore A. Kaldis) writes:
>In article <13vg2qINNk1t@matt.ksu.ksu.edu> strat@matt.ksu.ksu.edu (Steve Davis) writes:
>
>> The only evidence you have of my nationality is my name.  Who says
>> that I happen to be white?
>
>On the other hand, I have never known a black man who was enamored of
>a guitar.    

B.B. King.  Robert Johnson.  George Benson.  Robert Cray.
Toss the Lawrence Welk and Sing Along with Mitch records.  They're
stunting your growth.

>-- 
>The views expressed herein are my   ||  Theodore A. Kaldis
>my own only.  Do you seriously      ||  kaldis@remus.rutgers.edu
>believe that a major university as  ||  {...}!rutgers!remus.rutgers.edu!kaldis
>this would hold such views???       || 
 ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ Not a snowballs chance in hell...

Bob Moynihan
moynihan_r@apollo.hp.com



Newsgroups: talk.politics.misc
From: rja@redwood26.cray.com (Russ Anderson)
Subject: Re: TSONGAS: Convention speech text
Originator: rja@redwood26
Organization: The 1991 World Champion Minnesota Twins!
Date: 21 Jul 92 16:51:48 CDT


In article <1992Jul20.232455.2997@desire.wright.edu>, demon@desire.wright.edu (Stupendous Man) writes:
> In article <1992Jul20.125436.26302@hemlock.cray.com>, rja@redwood26.cray.com (Russ Anderson) writes:
> >> ...
> >> >  There are no Willie Horton ads in our souls.
> >> 
> >> 	I wonder where Al Gore was when this was spoken?
> > 
> > Gore brought up the furlough issue but he never used (or knew) the name(s)
> > of these furloughed.

What?  No comment?  Gore has publicly stated that he *never* used (or knew)
Horton's name.  Do you agree that Gore *never* mentioned Horton in attacking
Dukakis?

> > Bush and the Republicans used Horton's name.
> > 
> 	That's a lie.  If you have proof, earn $50 by sending me a video of the
> commercial.
> 
> 	Otherwise you might want to put *your* money where you mouth is :).

Floyd Brown used Horton's picture in an ad as part of Brown campaign to
get Bush elected.  Floyd Brown is a Republican (just ask him).  Browns
group has no formal ties to the Republican party (plausable deniability).

The Bush campain ran the "revolving door" ad (which did not have a picture of
Horton, as Brown's ad did).  Bush did mention Horton's name.

I happen to have a copy of the 1988 Bush/Dukakis debate.  If Bush uses
Horton's name on it, I'm in the money...   :-)

-- 
Russ Anderson    |  Disclaimer: Any statements are my own and do not reflect
------------------              upon my employer or anyone else.  (c) 1992
EX-Twins' Jack Morris, 10 innings pitched, 0 runs (World Series MVP!)
Xref: sparky talk.politics.misc:35920 alt.politics.elections:9152 alt.activism:13481
From: rbuchanan@vitalink.com (Rick Buchanan)
Newsgroups: talk.politics.misc,alt.politics.elections,alt.activism
Subject: Re: Tsongas Economic Plan
Date: 25 Jul 92 05:32:17 GMT
Reply-To: rbuchanan@vitalink.com (Rick Buchanan)
Organization: Vitalink Communications Corp.  (Standard disclaimer of course)

In article <1992Jul23.173937.19021@news.ysu.edu>, ae547@yfn.ysu.edu (Ronda 
Hauben) writes:

> But a capital gains tax cut only contributes to the problem, rather
> than providing any solution. Without seeing the problem analyzed,
> it can't be solved.
> 
> The difficulty is that the source of wealth is labor - not capital

It's so nice to see that there are still people who believe that.  I
mean, if _everybody_ gave up on this nonsense just because it's been
disproven so many times (both theoretically AND in practice), who would
we have to ridicule?  For example:

> HIgher wages and shorter hours are needed to increase the wealth that
> is available for the economy - that means a more stringent set
> of labor laws which act as a pressure on corporations to invest more
> in technology and more efficient methods of production -

Why would they want to do _that_?  You just said that capital is not
the source of wealth!   They shouldn't invest in technology and efficient
productive infrastructure;  that's CAPITAL investment (yuck!).
Better they should take all that money and give it to the workers 
outright.   THAT'LL increase everybody's wealth for sure!  

*** dripping sarcasm mode off ***

Do you actually read your own articles, or do you have a program that
randomly assembles idiotic socialist rhetoric and stock leftist slogans?

   ---   Rick

       ***   I think, therefore I can't be a socialist   ***
Newsgroups: talk.politics.misc,talk.religion.misc
From: hallam@zeus02.desy.de (Phillip M. Hallam-Baker)
Subject: Re: CLINTON: Acceptance speech text - Bible misquote
Reply-To: hallam@zeus02.desy.de
Organization: DESY ZEUS Central Data Acquisition
Date: Wed, 22 Jul 1992 17:44:57 GMT

In article <NEERI.92Jul21135517@iis.ethz.ch>, neeri@iis.ethz.ch
(Matthias Neeracher) writes:

|>In article <1992Jul19.162410.5194@infonode.ingr.com>
|>haefner@infonode.ingr.com (Mark W. Haefner) writes:
|>>By the way, Clinton's use of "covenant" was taken by many in the
|>media
|>>covering the convention as a way to make the southern christian
|>groups
|>>feel that they had something in common with Clinton. Try though he
|>may,
|>>Clinton will not get the southern vote.
|>
|>Do you also believe, then, that Bush's use of "New World Order" was an
|>attempt
|>to get the free masonic vote ? 

No, to do that he would have to have one trouser leg rolled up, a dead
chicken round his neck and a compass lightlty popped up his bum.


Phill Hallam-Baker

"And so he fought for freedom, but freedom not for man.
The only new world order was, obey your Uncle Sam"
	-- from The Laird of the New World order.
Xref: sparky talk.politics.misc:35712 ca.general:950
From: goykhman_a@apollo.hp.com
Newsgroups: talk.politics.misc,misc.invest
Subject: FACTOID: BANKS HAVE MORE MONEY IN US BONDS THEN LOANS
Date: 28 Jul 92 20:21:22 GMT
Organization: Hewlett-Packard Company, Chelmsford, MA
Originator: goykhman_a@dzoo

(reprinted without permission from the Boston Globe, July 28, 1992)
-------------------------------------------------------------------
           BANKS HAVE MORE MONEY IN US BONDS THEN LOANS
                        by William Goodwin
                          AMERICAN BANKER

NEW YORK - For the first time in 27 years banks have more goverment
securities on their books than business loans.

Data released by the Federal Reserve Board showed that commercial 
and industrial loans outstanding slipped to $598.5 billion at the 
end of June, while holding of US goverment securities climbed to
$607.3 billion.
...
-------------------------------------------------------------------


-- 
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Disclaimer: all opinions are mine.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Newsgroups: talk.politics.misc
From: ataylor@nmsu.edu (Nosy)
Subject: Can't Parse This (Was: TSONGAS: Convention speech text)
Organization: NMSU Computer Science
	<barrett.711519761@cc.gatech.edu>
	<1992Jul20.012000.2971@desire.wright.edu>
	<1992Jul21.162328.5055@hemlock.cray.com>
Date: Wed, 22 Jul 1992 22:55:39 GMT

In article <1992Jul21.162328.5055@hemlock.cray.com> rja@redwood26.cray.com (Russ Anderson) writes:


<I'm sure if Gore was lying (on David Brinkley), the Republicans would quickly 
<have an add out showing Gore mentioning Horton in 1988.

	Or maybe even a *multiply*!
Newsgroups: talk.politics.misc,alt.politics.clinton
From: crisp@netcom.com (Richard Crisp)
Subject: Re: Question about Clinton's "didn't inhale" remark
Date: Thu, 23 Jul 92 04:50:02 GMT
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services  (408 241-9760 guest) 
Distribution: usa

In article <1483@cogsci.ucsd.EDU> king@cogsci.ucsd.EDU (Jonathan King) writes:
>crisp@netcom.com (Richard Crisp) writes:
>>I beg your pardon, but how will public works programs pay for 
>>themselves?  One thing that always troubles me about the uninformed 
>>democrats is that they simply do not understand economics.
>
>Whether or not a public works program will eventually pay for itself
>really depends on the program, I would think.  In this way, it is no
>different from any other investment, public or private.  I think the
>real problem is one of assessment: is project 'X' one that the
>government can undertake more economically than some private venture,
>or is it a project that will, in the long run, provide some additional
>public benefit that would be unattainable otherwise?  Most people seem


OK, I see your point. What I was trying to say (and perhaps I wasn't clear
enough) was that they aren't self supporting. They do not bootstrap them-
selves up. That is what I was objecting to. The case I was particularily
objecting to was the reference to the WPA of the New Deal. It took al
lot of taxpayer's money to finance this make work program which added
a lot to our infrastructure by building roads, dams etc. If the construction
work needs to be done, perhaps it is a good idea. On the other hand, if
there is a profit motive, I think the efficiency is improved particularily
if the job is bid on a fixed price. The method of letting the government 
manage the project seems to not have the same incentive to be efficient.
Therefore I don't believe the taxpayers get as much for their money.
So what do you folks think?

-- 
Richard Crisp         Cupertino, Ca.         crisp@netcom.com
(415) 903-3832 wk    "what, me worry?"    (408) 253 4541 fax
We have four boxes used to guarantee our liberty:
The soap box, the ballot box, the jury box and the cartridge box
Xref: sparky talk.politics.misc:35744 talk.politics.theory:2997 alt.discrimination:3717
From: ataylor@nmsu.edu (Nosy)
Newsgroups: talk.politics.misc,talk.politics.clinton
Subject: Re: Question about Clinton's "didn't inhale" remark
Date: 24 Jul 92 18:36:58 GMT
	<-hfmzh_.crisp@netcom.com> <1483@cogsci.ucsd.EDU>
	<rdippold.711837512@cancun> <45552@shamash.cdc.com>
Followup-To: talk.politics.misc
Distribution: usa
Organization: NMSU Computer Science

<In article <45552@shamash.cdc.com> paul@svl.cdc.com (Paul Kohlmiller) writes:
<   rdippold@cancun.qualcomm.com (Ron Dippold) writes:

<   >king@cogsci.ucsd.EDU (Jonathan King) writes:
<   >>Whether or not a public works program will eventually pay for itself
<   >>really depends on the program, I would think. 

<   >I agree.  However, I would think that given the past record of
<   >government it would be fairly evident that any program involving the
<   >government most certainly wouldn't pay for itself...
 
 < Well, let's think about this for a minute. The Postal Service comes
 <  pretty close to paying for itself and it does a good job compared to
 <  other countries postal systems. 
	
	On which planet, please? In the U.S. (on Earth), the
	Postal Service has never paid for itself, has cut service
	year after year and is slower than the Italian postal
	service.

<Per item mailed it does pretty good
<   compared to private industry (like UPS) in terms of lost mail, etc.
 
	Huh? I have NEVER heard of any parcel sent via UPS being
	lost; on the other hand, a postcard from UPS sent to
	my Post Office box took 5 days to travel 1,000 yards
	not too long ago. 

<  The space program doesn't pay for itself directly but there is no
<   accounting for things like spinoffs (in fact it seems impossible to
<   define what are true spinoffs). 

	The space program, like the defense program, fits into
	the area of "things that governments classically do"; 
	explore new territory and defend the nation.

	As such, it pays for itself over a very long haul; how
	long did the Louisiana Purchase take to "pay off" for the
	U.S. government?

	Even some Libertarians endorse basic functions of goverment
	such as maintaining roads, defending borders, providing
	courts and so forth.

<The welfare program probably pays for
<   itself in terms of crime, etc. that does not happen.

	Prove it. 

< Of course, you can't
<   account for things that don't happen. Government safety programs have the
<   same problem, you can't add up all the things that didn't happen. 

	Which "goverment safety programs", please? 
	If you mean such things as the FAA, you may have a point.
	If you mean such things as OSHA, I disagree.

<On the
<other hand, although I have not in my 40 years ever called the fire department,
<I don't mind paying my share to have them there.
 
	Please show who is suggesting that all fire departments
	be disbanded?

	Heck, some of us wish that our local governments would
	ORGANIZE a fire department; unfortunately, said local
	governments are too busy organizing "art" shows to
	take care of proper business, so the volunteer fire
	department has to take up the slack.
Newsgroups: talk.politics.misc