From: lyodav@iastate.edu (Sun God)
Subject: Re: Dogfight Size wars
Organization: Iowa State University, Ames IA
Date: Tue, 22 Dec 1992 02:12:44 GMT

In <JIVE.92Dec21124815@spanky.ssc.gov> jive@spanky.ssc.gov (Jim Ivey) writes:


>Some random DD player writes :

>>   As for DDs being useless in general, I disagree. I played DDs
>> exclusively in INL games, and I always had:

>> 1) The most DI on my team (always above 8.00)
>> 2) A ratio above 1.00 (about 10 carriers created, 120 kills)
>> 3) 3rd highest planets bombed after the 2 SC bombers
>> 4) 3rd highest armies ogged after the 2 oggers
>> 5) Somewhere in the top 3 for planets taken/destroyed

>     This is more of a comment about the quality of your team, not your
>personal play.

   The Angry Men were basically a group of career Commodores. Still, I don't
think they deserve so little respect. If we would have played more games
together, we could have been in the second group of teams, instead of just
below. 

>>   If this is useless, I'd like to see what useful players do. Contrary to 
>>popular belief, the DD is the most versatile ship.

>     Ah.. yeah, whatever.

>>   Ogging   Bombing   Planets
>>1) CA       SC        DD
>>2) DD       DD        AS
>>3) SC       AS        SC

>     Well, your chart seems reasonable, though I'd fault it in a couple of
>areas.

>    Ogging   Bombing   Planets
>1)  CA       SC        SC
>2)  SC       DD        CA <---------- Only in clueless games. ;-)
>3)  DD       AS        AS
     ^^
     ||
   I don't think so. The DD explosion does 100
vs 75, and they can stay cloaked longer. Not to 
mention better tractors and pressors. The faster
SC torps don't mean much when you're at close 
range.


>>   The CA only appears once in the above chart...duh, guys, why do you
>> play them? Scouts are possibly as useful as DDs, but certainly CAs
>> aren't. The above chart is arguable, but in any case the CA is not one of
>> the top 3 bombing or planet taking ships.

>     We play them because we excel in them.  They are a powerful, yet
>versatile ship.  They have the staying power to crush someone at the front
>line, and still have enough fight to pick up armies off a nearby planet and
>drop them.  CA planet taking is an art, son.  You don't fly back to your
>system to repair and pick up armies.  Whenever you see a pop on one of your
>planets at the border, you fly to position yourself between it and the
>enemy, crush anyone that comes near, then pick up and dash for the nearest
>planet.  I've finished off many an LPS by picking up from an enemy core
>world and limping to their home planet.

   So you dogfight to get a kill and then pick up while hurt. My bombing stat
loves you guys.

>     DD planet taking, IMHO, only occurs with regularity in clueless games.
>DD's are too slow and fragile to go up against oggers, whether they're
>scouts or cruisers.  And as for ogging, DD's are just barely too big to be
>good oggers, because if you live through an ogg, you have no fuel and are
>crippled.  After a CA ogg, I almost always have enough fuel and damage to
>grab the nearest enemy and take them with me.  The bombing scale I left the
>same.  Though again, I feel much happier bombing in a CA than a DD. :)

   I guess Side Salad must be clueless, because I took 5 planets against them
at CMU, all in a DD. The only times I died with armies was when I flew a BB.
(And I was stupid both times I got dooshed...but that's off the subject)
They must be clueless, because I dooshed about 35 armies from their CA and AS
carriers, all away from the home planet in a DD. And I still had speed to bomb
25 planets. Those twinks!

>     'Nuff said.  Oh, and ignore the comments about 'art' and 'versatile'.
>CA's are just bruisers that rule the netrek galaxy with brute force.
>Finesse is for weaklings.

>     Jamie / FillInTheBlank

   Dogfighting is for Lance wannabes. I admit, my DD can rarely take down
Lance's CA. Then again, I don't think anyone's CA can either. :)

--Dave/WeenieBlaster
PS. I think that DDs should have 90 shields/hull, but only do 90 pts explosion
damage. Of course this change will never happen, as Netrekkers are more 
reactionary than Communists! If you look at the ship tables, it makes sense.

Maxwarp * Hull:
---------------
Scouts    = 900
Destroyer = 850
Cruiser   = 900

   Which of these things is not like the other ones? (sung to sesame street's
famous melody)