HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: melanie@cayman.amd.com (Melanie Typaldos)
Subject: Re: Color vision in snakes?
Organization: Advanced Micro Devices, Inc., Austin, Texas
Date: Thu, 7 Jan 93 16:12:14 GMT

Over in rec.pets.herp we've been having a discussion on whether
snakes have color vision or not.  ( Personally I believe that they
do.)  I was hoping that someone in sci.bio might have some solid
knowlege on this topic or on color vision in reptiles in general.

Also, I remember hearing a while ago that it may not be true that
most mammals lack color vision.  What's the current story on this?

Hope you don't mind the cross-posting...just looking for some
elightenment.

----Melanie

In article <1993Jan6.190722.22628@progress.com> gerard@progress.COM (Gerard Bras) writes:
>christ@sci.ccny.cuny.edu (Chris Thompson) writes:
>
>>A while back, during the thread discussing various snakes' gustatory
>>preferences, several people asserted that snakes posessed color
>>vision, as evidenced by the fact that they would only eat certain
>>colored prey.  I checked this out with a herpetologist friend of mine,
>>and also received confirmation on a snake special on The Discovery 
>>Channel the other night.  While snakes do not posess color vision
>>at all, they can PROBABLY detect shade differences by the varying
>>amount of heat that different colored fur or hair emits.  Snakes
>>have very limited vision as we define it, and rely much more upon
>>the data gathered by the vomeronasal organ, which senses heat only.
>>They can (obviously) also detect ground vibrations from quite a ways
>>off.
>
>Well, you've made some pretty controversial assertions here.  As far as
>I know many snake species have retinal cones and can presumably discern
>color.  Further, only a few snakes have any sort of heat sensing organs,
>primarily viperid and boids.  As somebody else pointed out animal tissues
>are almost perfect radiators of IR regardless of pigmentation.
>
>Further, I believe that except for certain primitive species, tour
>statement that snakes have limited vision just doesn't stand scrutiny.
>Snakes, have highly evolved eye structures, capable of both focusing
>and dilation/contraction to control the amount of light admitted.
>In fact, it the means of focusing that is the one characteristic of 
>snakes which is totally unique from all other animals.  Lastly, I have
>plenty of first hand evidence that, at least in boids, vision works
>just fine.
>
>>(Help!  I've fallen and I can't reach my beer!)
>
>better lay off.
>
>cheers,
>gerard


Melanie (Melanie Typaldos)        melanie@cayman.amd.com  
AMD 29K Systems Engineering
From: nvonstein@memstvx1.memst.edu
Newsgroups: rec.pets.herp
Subject: Re: are chameleons (very) difficult?
Date: 7 Jan 93 10:53:15 -0600
Organization: Memphis State University

In article <1993Jan6.222103.13820@ns1.cc.lehigh.edu>, jwg0@ns1.cc.lehigh.edu (JOHN WALTER GEWARTOWSKI) writes:
>>From what I understand from the herpetologists at our zoo, chameleons are so
> shy
>>that the people who work with them make every possible attempt to not even make
>>eye contact with them.
>>the Panther chameleons because of this advice.  These guys are not on exhibit
>>and are separated in gallon glass jars in a place that is relatively isolated.
>>All chameleons may not be this shy, but when I had the opportunity to get a
>>chameleon, I chose not to because I knew I wouldn't be able to stay away from
>>it.  I think they are wonderful.
>>
>>Nancy
>>
> 
> I don't think this should be a valid reason for not getting a chameleon.
> One could always line the tank with one-way mirror, or such similar material,
> so that the lizard in question has no idea you're even peering in on him.
> -- 
Go ahead - twist my arm!  Ouch - that's enough!  You all are giving me all
kinds of arguments to go ahead and get a chameleon.  I already want one so bad
I can't stand it.  
> 
> *--------------------------------------*
>  Take a walk on the Wild side...Biffman
> *--------------------------------------*
>      j o h n g e w a r t o w s k i
> 
> How do you tell if you have bad acne?

My friends tell me!  With friends like mine, who needs enemies?  

Thanks
Nancy
From: csc@pilot.njin.net (Sean Casey)
Newsgroups: rec.pets.herp
Subject: Re: The Makeup of A Snake's Housing...
Keywords: This article printed on 100% recycled electrons
Date: 6 Jan 93 14:42:58 GMT
Organization: The Leaning Tower of Patterson Office @ The Univ. of KY

Gerbils illegal in CA? Why?
Newsgroups: rec.pets.herp
From: kyle@Csli.Stanford.EDU (Kyle Wohlmut)
Subject: Re: Snake cohabitation
Followup-To: rec.pets.herp
Summary: Followups to alt.misogyny
Keywords: This article printed on 100% recycled electrons
Organization: The Beast Fable Society
Date: Fri, 8 Jan 1993 18:57:05 GMT

In article <1iipklINNg2b@pith.uoregon.edu> tenny@euclid.uucp (Nathan
"We're Bullish About" Tenny) writes:
>In article <21069@ucdavis.ucdavis.edu> nathan@charles.ucdavis.edu
>(Nathan "Good old Reliable Nathan" Rollins) writes:
>>  Would there be any problems in keeping a 4-foot-seven Burmese python
>>and a 5-foot red-tail boa together in one cage, provided that they
>
>Shouldn't be.  A friend of mine who owns a pet store keeps her Burmese among
>the merchandise, and I've seen it cohabitate with a whole bunch of boas (and
>a couple of juvenile retics) with no problems at all.
>

I think so, too, although one caveat: you definitely want to keep the
new snake, whichever one that is, under quarranteen conditions for at
least a few weeks before exposing your already home & healthy reptiles
to contact with a new animal.

/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/
                       /               
/'''   Kyle Wohlmut    -  'Heute back ich, morgen brau ich, und       
c-OO                   /   uebermorgen hol ich mir der Koenigin ihr      
   \   Rocking Pig     -   Kind.  Ach, wie gut dass niemand weiss,
  -     Enterprises    /   dass ich kyle@csli.stanford.EDU heiss.'    
                       -                                              
-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-
From: gt6441c@prism.gatech.EDU (Jon Edwards )
Newsgroups: rec.pets.herp
Subject: Atlantan herp needs home
Date: 9 Jan 93 05:15:18 GMT
Distribution: ga
Organization: Georgia Institute of Technology


I have a young Sailfin Dragon (soa-soa, hydrosaur...) that I have been
keeping for approximately 6 months.  I fear that I will not be able
to take good enough care of it in the future and must regretfully put
him/her up for sale.  If you are an experienced herp keeper, I will
give you my lizard, plus two "hot rocks" for $20.  I really hate to
give him/her up, but if you can provide a better home, it is what I 
feel I should do...

Jon


-- 
Jonathan R. Edwards                         "In the darkest depths of Mordor,
gt6441c@prism.gatech.edu                     I met a girl so fair..."
Georgia Institute of Technology                     -'Ramble On,' Led Zepplin  
Newsgroups: rec.pets.herp
From: rptjr@brahms.udel.edu (Richard Terrell)
Subject: Mite treatment
Organization: University of Delaware
Distribution: na
Date: Tue, 12 Jan 1993 17:33:06 GMT

	I have had good and bad experiences in dealing with mites.
One pet store recommended smearing the snake with vaseline and then
rubbing it off completeley to "suffocate" the mites.  Though I thought
this a bit strange, I had no better ideas so I tried it.  Well, a couple
weeks after the treatment, Rasputin (my 5 foot boa who is currently for
sale--anyone interested?) started losing his epidermal layer as loose
scales!  Following his next real shed, his skin returned to normal.  But,
I would definitely not recommend this treatment since it failed.
	I then tried something different that did great.  I soaked the
snake in a small bucket of water for a few hours (checking every so often
to make sure he didn't drown).  But before putting him in the water, I
applied a small amount of mineral oil around his eyes.  It seems the mites
are smart enough to hide in the snakes' eye sockets when the snake moves. 
While the snake was soaking, I used a dilute Clorox solution on
everything in the cage (similar to what someone else on the net suggested)
and the cage itself.  Then I rinsed and dried the cage and dried the
snake.  Before returning the snake to his cage I added small bits of cat
flea collar to the cage.  They stayed in for a week and were then remover
and placed under a plastic cup on top of the wire cagetop.  This has
prevented any new infestations and apparently hasn't harmed the snake. 
Good luck!
From: ruska@hpfcso.FC.HP.COM (Dave Ruska)
Date: Wed, 6 Jan 1993 21:04:54 GMT
Subject: Re: Ball Phythons
Organization: Hewlett-Packard, Fort Collins, CO, USA
Newsgroups: rec.pets.herp

In rec.pets.herp, mds5597@ritvax.isc.rit.edu writes:

> ...
> and get a second snake. The last meeting I attended was about Ball phytons.
> They were real interesting and are the size that I am looking for. I thought I
> read somewhere that they are difficult to feed somethimes. Someone told me 
> that if you get a hatchling you wont have a problem....is this true?

Imported ball pythons are almost always difficult to feed. Add to that the
fact they commonly have internal parasites requiring deworming, and well as 
external ticks. They also may be undernourished (depending on how long they
spent in the import and distribution process), and may already have retained 
eye caps from a dry shed during importation. If you resolve all of these
issues you might end up with a decent snake, although it will most likely
remain a bit head shy and may hiss at you when you disturb it.

Captive born hatchings on the other hand are reported to be good feeders
with a mellow disposition.  

> ...........................................................  Is there any
> other snakes that are in the general size catagory that I should look into? 

How about a Brazilian Rainbow Boa? They are much smaller than your typical
red tail / common Boa. They are shorter and considerably more slender,
and are amoung the most beautiful snakes available (IMHO anyway). They are
great feeders, with the only special requirements over common boas being 
the need for higher humidity.

> I thought about getting another Corn so I can breed them...but to be honest
> there are other snakes that also fasinate me as well and maybe I shold look 
> at them before jumping into breeding plans. 

> 		Anyone....
>                                                
>                                                       Treky and Tabatha
> 							    N8VFZ

Regards,
Dave                       (daver@hpgrrd.gr.hp.com)
Newsgroups: rec.pets.herp
From: gerard@progress.COM (Gerard Bras)
Subject: Re: Snake cohabitation
Organization: Progress Software Corp.
Date: Fri, 8 Jan 1993 17:36:49 GMT

nathan@charles.ucdavis.edu (Nathan Rollins) writes:


>  Would there be any problems in keeping a 4-foot-seven Burmese python
>and a 5-foot red-tail boa together in one cage, provided that they
>were separated for feeding times?

Not inherently.  I do urge you though to quarantine any new arrivals before
they share a cage.  One sick animal can take down your entire collection.

cheers,
gerard
Newsgroups: rec.pets.herp
From: mikeh@oakhill.sps.mot.com (Michael Herman)
Subject: Re: Gerbils running wild (was Re: The Makeup of A Snake's Housing...)
Keywords: This article printed on 100% recycled electrons
Organization: Motorola Inc., Austin Tx.
Date: Thu, 7 Jan 1993 14:38:08 GMT

Am I to understand that calif has some kind of border patrol
or state customs???

Having traveled from NY state to Texas and never having been stopped
at a state border for whatever reason puzzles me.

JC
Motorola dosent have anything to do with any stupid questions I may ask.
From: nathan@charles.ucdavis.edu (Nathan Rollins)
Newsgroups: rec.pets.herp
Subject: Re: Snake care sheet
Date: 12 Jan 93 14:17:12 GMT
Organization: Department of Music, UCDavis


 I just wanted to share a method of getting rid of mites that worked for
me. I had a young (3-foot) Burmese python visibly infested with mites,
and a year-old Corn snake who did not visibly have them but we suspected 
might, since the cages were in close proximity. 
What we did:

1. Put both snakes in temporary cages and sent them to a non-snake-owning
friend for the day.

2. Throughly washed their cages with a 5% bleach solution and a LOT of water.
   Also washed all water-bowls, and threw away all old substrate. Let the 
cages dry in direct sunlight all day.

3. While cages are drying, "fog" the entire house with Zodiac FleaTrol
  foggers. (You could also fog cages with house, then remove and wash as
above, but I was pressed for time) Leave the "fog" in there for as long
as possible, but then let it air out plenty before you bring the snakes
back in. 

4. Take snake, and dose with Zodiac Flea & Tick powder for cats. DO NOT get
any of this powder on the snake's head! I found the best way was to either 
cover their head with a bag and then powder the rest of them, or put them in a b bag with the head sticking out and have powder in the bag. Rub the powder well
into the snake, but wipe it all off with a soft dry towel immediately. The 
typical snake "crawling away" can be used to good effect; hold them tightly
in a towel and let them slowly wriggle out of it through a tight squeeze.
Repeat: DO NOT get powder on the snake's HEAD!

5. Put snakes back in clean cages. Do not put water bowls in until next day.

Now, I was told that I'd need to do this several times (every two weeks for
about 2 months) but I only did one treatment and the mites vanished 
completely. It's been about six months now with no sign of them. And the
snakes are both fine. 
 	Though I do think that the Burmese was insturmental in getting rid
of her mites; when I put her water bowl back in, she crawled in it and
stayed there for about four days. When she eventually left, there were dead
mites in the water, and no more mites on the snake.

 This method was suggested to me by the folks at the UC Davis Animal Hospital.
I can't guarantee the effectiveness or safety of any of this, but it did
work with my snakes.

 -Otter not Nathan
From: nvonstein@memstvx1.memst.edu
Newsgroups: rec.pets.herp
Subject: Re: Color vision in snakes?
Date: 7 Jan 93 13:29:50 -0600
Distribution: na
Organization: Memphis State University


> 
> The Asian Vine Snake (A. nasuta - might not be current nomenclature), however, has binocular
> (3-D) vision -  

Seems like I read somewhere that this is true for the King Cobra also.  We have
one at the zoo here (Memphis) and I swear this snake makes eye contact with
people - even through the glass of his enclosure.  A magnificent snake - about
12' long - which I think is probably average for this snake, but it is awesome
to watch him.

Does anyone know if the King cobra has binocular vision?

Nancy

> 
>>>(Help!  I've fallen and I can't reach my beer!)
> 
> Bummer!
> 
> --DaviD
> 
> -- 
> 
> 
> I don't need a .sig.
From: bzandrew@amiganet.chi.il.us (Bill Zandrew)
Newsgroups: rec.pets.herp
Subject: Re: Free-roaming iguanas
Date: 11 Jan 93 21:57:01 CST
Organization: Amiga Network Information Systems

Letting an Ig roam:

We let ours roam all the time.  He doesn't move around much though.  He has
places that he likes.  At night we put him in his cage.  (I don't trust the cat
or dog).  He is not giant.  He's about 3 feet long.  He's a cool dude!
Newsgroups: rec.pets.herp
From: mcfaul@cheshire.oxy.edu (Timothy Jon McFaul)
Subject: Chameleons
Organization: Occidental College, Los Angeles, CA.  USA
Date: Fri, 8 Jan 1993 06:01:27 GMT

	I have kept chameleons in captivity for approximately two years
and have had marginal success with them. Among the species I have kept
are: Chameleo Pardalis, Chameleo Johnstoni, Chameleo Jacksoni, Chameleo
Calyptratus and a couple of others. I have had the most luck with my
pardalis (panther) chameleon named Sam whom I have had for two years. He
has done exceptionally well and will eat anything that is not nailed down.
He loves people and reminds me more of a puppy than a reptile. Apparently
this is unusual as many pardalis absolutely hate people and tend to be
quite resentful of any handling. I would venture to say this is true of
most chameleons because virtually all others I have had resented any type
of handling and either tried to escape or in extreme cases (C.
Calyptratus) hissed and bit. I have never been an advocate of keeping
chameleons in closed containers such as cages because I have found that
coinfinement tends to stress out the animal. This is probably due to the
fact that most chameleons live their whole lives in trees. One must
realize that our world for the most part is horizontal. But a chameleon's
world is vertical, thus they have an instinctive urge to climb to the top
of whatever they are on. For example my Pardalis walks around the house
climbing to the top of drapes, dressers, blinds or anything else he can
climb, but at night returns to his tree (a 6 foot ficus tree). A key to
keeping these animals alive is an awareness of their needs. Mainly, a
basking site around 85-90 degrees, a regular source of fresh water, a
varied diet (very important) with calcium and vitamin supplementation. A
common mistake many herps. make is the lack of a FULL-SPECTRUM light such
as a vita lite. This is essential to the metabolism of a chameleon as it
needs the short-band uv light to convert vitamin d to d3, which is
essential in the absorbtion of calcium from the digestive tract. Following
these guidelines will increase the success of chameleon husbandry. There
is a myriad of variables involved in keeping these animals and one must do
a little research on the origin of his or her animal in order to optimize
its living environment. Keeping chameleons is not an easy prospect and
requires a great deal of commitment to the welfare of your chosen animal.
A chameleon is NOT an animal which can tolerate any sort of neglect
whatsoever as the resulting stress will surely contribute to its demise.
The purpose of this is not to lecture on chameleon husbandry, my goal is
to clear up some misconceptions regarding the husbandry of these animals.
If anyone has any questions on a specific species or has any experiences
they would like to share, please do so. The field of chameleon husbandry
is in its infancy and any information that can be shared by herptologists
will be beneficial to the long term success of chameleon husbandry.

Peace.
M.
From: dlb5404@tamsun.tamu.edu (Daryl Biberdorf)
Newsgroups: rec.pets.herp
Subject: Rodents [was Re: The Makeup of A Snake's Housing...]
Date: 5 Jan 1993 14:11:27 -0600
Organization: Texas A&M University, College Station, TX
NNTP-Posting-Host: tamsun.tamu.edu

In article <C0E9xD.1n1.1@cs.cmu.edu> tmohler+@cs.cmu.edu (Tim Mohler) writes:
>In article <C0C9K3.HI8@news.iastate.edu> pholland@iastate.edu (Paul J Hollander) writes:
>>less than rats, at least mine did. However, the gerbils were realatively
>>monogamous and didn't produce babies as fast or as often as the rats.
>
>Yah - and gerbils fight when you bring in a new pair of them. They don't eat
>their babies, though. They do seem to be monogamous, worse luck for me.
>I was hoping to have a stud-gerbil and about 6 females, but no such luck.

When I kept gerbils as pets (not snake food) in high school, I did have
a problem with the parents eating the babies.  Pretty gross stuff, too,
finding a half-eaten gerbil baby in a corner of the cage.  Yuck.

Daryl
-- 
Daryl Biberdorf  N5GJM    d-biberdorf@tamu.edu or  dlb5404@tamsun.tamu.edu
From: tenny@euclid.uucp (Nathan Tenny)
Newsgroups: rec.pets.herp
Subject: Leopard Frog Talks to Television!
Date: 11 Jan 93 23:58:03 GMT
Article-I.D.: pith.1it1ibINNejh
Reply-To: tenny@euclid.uoregon.edu
Organization: Department of Mathematics, University of Oregon
NNTP-Posting-Host: euclid.uoregon.edu


Believe it or not, the subject line says it all.  One of my leopard frogs
has taken to calling when the TV is on (an unusual event in this house, so I
doubt it's just by coincidence).  Now, I presume the fact that he's calling
means he's male and reasonably contented, but why on earth would the TV
prompt it???

(BTW: the programming in question was (1) 60 Minutes showing footage of
Nureyev dancing to Tchaikovsky; (2) local news; (3) _Cinema Paradiso_, so I
doubt it's in response to the content. :-)

	NT
Newsgroups: rec.pets.herp,sci.bio
From: BIOSEE@UKCC.UKY.EDU (Stephanie Edelmann)
Newsgroups: rec.pets.herp
Subject: Re: tall story
Date: 5 Jan 93 10:13:27 GMT
Organization: University of Kentucky

In article <C0CtnH.Enw@news.iastate.edu>
pholland@iastate.edu (Paul J Hollander) writes:
 
>
>This story breaks me up, and I thought Seedman and others would get a laugh.
>-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>Article: 324 of soc.veterans
>From: jewell@mace.cc.purdue.edu (Larry Jewell)
>Date: 16 Jun 91 11:21:42 GMT
>
>I had to repeat this to the group, I got it from rec.humor.funny.
>=============================================================================
>
>>From: spock@pro-doktor.cts.com (John Griffin)
>Subject: Me, Larry, and The Snake...
>Date: 14 Jun 91 23:30:05 GMT
>
>
THIS IS ABOUT THE FUNNIEST THING I'VE READ LATELY
 
Stephanie
Newsgroups: rec.pets.herp
From: phunter@emr1.emr.ca (Paul Hunter)
Subject: Toe Nails
Organization: Dept. of Energy, Mines, and Resources, Ottawa
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1 PL8]
Date: Fri, 8 Jan 1993 23:24:44 GMT

The toe nails on my ig are getting very long. I assume this is a
function of limited wear and tear in a seditary existence. Is
it alright to clip them down a bit or should I leave well enough
alone?
Newsgroups: rec.pets.herp
From: rptjr@brahms.udel.edu (Richard Terrell)
Subject: Flame me, will you
Organization: University of Delaware
Distribution: usa
Date: Tue, 12 Jan 1993 03:17:09 GMT

Well thanx for the flame.  What I meant by "animals" in my post about
permits was reptiles (after all, there are no other worth-while animals).  I
see Delaware requiring a permit for Boas and iguanas as ludicrous because
neither would survive the current weather we are experiencing.  And
besides that, $25 is entirely too much for a permit of this
kind--especially considering the fact that I am merely going to school
here and do not intend to stay here for the rest of my pets lives (which
the permit would cover).  Sheesh, can't a guy whine about the place in
which he lives without people jumping down his throat?
Newsgroups: rec.pets.herp
Subject: Re: snake fear
From: <CBTCC@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Date: Tuesday, 12 Jan 1993 09:26:01 EST
Organization: City University of New York/ University Computer Center

In article <1993Jan11.154452.6523@desire.wright.edu>, jknife@desire.wright.edu
says:
>
>        I'll be getting married in the upcoming summer, and I have a bit of a
>problem;  My soon-to-be mother in law is VERY scared of snakes.  I'm not
>willing to part with my corn snake and Boa, but I don't want their presence to
>keep her from visiting (I know, laugh it up, but . . .)
>
>        Has anyone out there ever tried to "cure" herpetophobia? (sp?)  Any
>suggestions?
>
>        By the way, having someone "snake-sit" is out of the question.
>
>
>        Thanks,
>        Joe Knife

Yes, I ran into this same problem.  I bought my niece a king snake for
Christmas a couple of years ago.  My sister (her mother) has ALWAYS been
petrified of all herps (she's not bad, otherwise).  Time and GENTLE
familiarization seems to work best.  It helped that the snake was tiny, and
obviously harmless.  That won't work too well with adult snakes.  I guess the
best advice is don't push it too hard.  Don't pull your snakes out of the
tank every time she shows up, to PROVE to her that it won't eat her up
besides, you might get bitten that way, and all training then goes right down
the tubes!).  Keep the animals in an inconspicuous place.  They are probably
by nature retiring critters, so that helps.  DON'T feed them while she
is there!  If they come up in conversation, make them sound amusing.
Also, discussion of color pattern seems to work well.  That will probably
work best with the corn.  After a few 'training sessions' my sister even
consented to hold my latest addition- a baby Sonoran desert kingsnake
(_Lampropeltis guetulis splendida_).  Good luck,

Chris Thompson
Newsgroups: rec.pets.herp