HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: v045100@otis1.stortek.com (Jennifer Farnham)
Subject: Re: Source EDP wouldn't just mail me their Salary Survey
Reply-To: v045100@otis1.UUCP (Jennifer Farnham)
Organization: Storage Technology Corp.
Distribution: usa
Date: Wed, 18 Nov 1992 15:29:23 GMT

Source EDP is famous for "getting you in" to their
offices when you call for the Salary Survey. They
assume you want to change jobs or are thinking
about it when you call, so they ask you to come
in and they will give you the survey then.

Well, I went into their offices (Washington, D.C),
and they interviewed me, and GAVE me the salary
survey.  They are very agressive.

Jenny Farnham
Boulder, Colorado
StorageTek
From: frank@rover.uchicago.edu (Frank - Hardware Hacker - Borger)
Newsgroups: misc.jobs.misc
Subject: Re: Request for Reality Check
Date: 18 Nov 92 15:55:00 GMT
Reply-To: frank@rover.uchicago.edu
Organization: Joint Center for Radiation Therapy
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41

In article <2490066@hpgrla.gr.hp.com>, teresas@hpgrla.gr.hp.com (Teresa Simske) writes...
>Things seem a bit different in the past few months. I'm trying to
>get a barometer on this. ...

	I have a simple barometer. We do major shopping once a month or so
	at a discount house. We used to drive by the plant where Teletype
	manufactured terminals. The plant is now torn down and a large
	shopping center sits there, trying to fill all their stores.

	At the same time I watch inane TV commercials telling some naive
	young people that a job at Mickey D's is the sure fire start on
	the way to an eventual position running (or owning,) the place.

	Long as we kid ourselves that we can run a service only economy,
	(without solid production behind it,) jobs in engineering will be
	hard to come by.

   Frank R. Borger - Physicist    __       Internet:  Frank@rover.uchicago.edu
Michael Reese - Univ. of Chicago |___      Phone : 312-791-8075 fax : 567-7455
  Center for Radiation Therapy   | |_) _   We ought to saw off the Eastern Sea-
                                   | \|_)  board and float it out to sea.
    "Birthplace of Softball"          |_)  Barry Goldwater - Attributed, 1962
Organization: Wirtschaftsuniversitaet Wien, Vienna, Austria
Date: Friday, 20 Nov 1992 16:03:39 CET
From: <8325822@awiwuw11.wu-wien.ac.at>
Newsgroups: misc.jobs.misc
Subject: Re: New group?
 <1992Nov18.220052.17251@athena.cs.uga.edu>

Please let's not forget non-engineering|||||
Newsgroups: misc.jobs.misc
From: patth@panix.com (Patt Bromberger)
Subject: Interview Questions & Answers
Date: Mon, 23 Nov 1992 06:26:48 GMT
Distribution: na
Organization: PANIX Public Access Unix & Internet, NYC
Followup-To: misc.jobs.misc

There was once a headhunter organization that charged upwards
of $1,500 for what they called "grooming" an applicant, editing
his/her resume and rehearsing an applicant for interviews.

As I recall, some of the questions were:

Tell me what you like/dislike most about yourself.

Why do you want to work here?

etc.

Have things changed at all -- or are hiring managers, personnel
directors still asking these same questions and what are some
of the unique answers that you have given to such questions?



-- 
Patricia Ann Bromberger                            patth@panix.com
This quote borrowed from: Gary.Petraccaro@f12.n2610.z1.fidonet.org 
... "It matters not so much what you sing, but why..." J.S. Bach

Newsgroups: misc.jobs.misc
From: paul@seer.demon.co.uk (Paul Lynch)
Subject: Re: C Guru - Six Figure Compensation
Organization: P & L Systems
Date: Sun, 22 Nov 1992 12:55:18 GMT

In article <1992Nov20.201518.7089@dsd.es.com> pmartz@dsd.es.com (Paul  
Martz) writes:
> In article <1992Nov20.185425.21895@lynx.dac.northeastern.edu>,  
awells@lynx.dac.northeastern.edu (Andrew V. Wells) writes:
> > In article <1992Nov19.212813.1493@netcom.com>, glenn@netcom.com (Glenn  
Gribble) writes:
> > [ ... ]
> > 
> > >    Ability and willingness to work 60+ hours per week when required  
(not 
> > >    constantly).
> > 
> >           Translation: Willingness to be a slave.
> > 
> > [ ...etc... ]
> [chomp]
> 
> When the time comes to put in 60+ hours is when the excitement
> happens! If you don't like it / can't cut it / think it's slavery,
> then it's time to examine career alternatives.

If I'm paid by the hour, then I do 60+ hour weeks.  If I'm paid by  
results, I might do 30 hours.  I also think that I am more productive in  
the shorter weeks; it is hard to compare, because the work would be for  
different types of employers, and the sort who want their employees to  
just get on with it are 'better' to work for all round.

Paul
-- 
Paul Lynch
P & L Systems                   (NeXTmail) paul@seer.demon.co.uk
Tel: (0494)671501                      paull@cix.compulink.co.uk
Fax: (0494)680228                       76711.451@compuserve.com
From: john@attcan.UUCP (John Benfield)
Newsgroups: misc.jobs.misc
Subject: Re: How dressed is "over dressed?"
Date: 20 Nov 92 16:14:47 GMT
Organization: AT&T Canada - MIS Network Development

In article <1edpqvINNqrg@armory.centerline.com>, russo@centerline.com (Alan Russo) writes:
> 
> This is a question which may have gotten some coverage here before...
> 
>	I just recently had an inteview for a software development position...
>and I was BIG TIME over dressed.  I met with 3 people, and I could tell that I 
> made at least one of them uncomfortable.  I talked over my impressions with a 
> couple of people here at work whose opinions I trust, and they fell into 2 
> categories:
> 
> 	1) It is better to be over dressed than under-dressed
> 	2) Going to a software development position dressed like an investment
> 	   banker makes you look "junior"

It's best to know what sort of environment you're going into. A little
bit of homework can go a long way. IMHO, you should always 'dress' for
an interview. I would never go in anything less than a suit unless it
was an informal interview with a previous acquaintance. If you want to
protect yourself from alienanting people, toss in some sort of personal
anachronism. Wear a suit but add a Mickey Mouse tie. People tend to 
focus on what they want to see. The casual people will notice the 
tie and the business people will see the suit. It can work against
you, but I've found it tends to work in your favour more often than
not. I'ld avoid three-piece for anything less than a position with
a high-profile financial/legal systems group. NEVER have anything
negative for people to focus on. No spots on the tie, wrong crease
in the suit or missing buttons. 
> 
> 
> 	Okay.... I have 3 more interviews scheduled in the next couple of 
> weeks. One at a research institution, one at a consulting firm, and one for a 
> comercial development project.  I do have QE work experience, and I am looking 
> to move into development.  Though I am interviewing for junior positions, they 
> are not strictly speaking entry level... and I don't want to come across as 
> any more "wet behind the ears" than I have to.
> 	Here and the places I've interviewed at to date are casual work 
> environments, and I'm assuming that the other firms will be similar.  I guess 
> the questions comes down to these: Is a suit "inappropriate" when interviewing
> for a non-senior development position?  What is appropriate to convey the 
> "ideal" first impression?
> 

see above for MHO :)
> 
> Thanks,
> Alan
> russo@centerline.com

No problem.


______Opinions stated are my own. Transcripts available by request______
      ===
    =--====  AT&T Canada Inc.          John Benfield
   =----==== 3650 Victoria Park Ave.   Network Support Analyst (MIS)
   =----==== Suite 700		  
   ==--===== Willowdale, Ontario       attmail   : ~jbenfield
    =======  M2H-3P7                   uucp      : uunet.ca!attcan!john
      ===    (416) 756-5221            internet  : john@attcan.att.ca
                                                   
____Eagles may soar, but weasels don't get sucked into jet engines._____
From: plutchak@pilsner.geo.brown.edu (Joel Plutchak)
Newsgroups: misc.jobs.misc
Subject: Re: New group?
Date: 19 Nov 1992 17:18:15 GMT
Organization: Brown University Planetary Geology
NNTP-Posting-Host: pilsner.geo.brown.edu

In article <1ee92tINN190@gap.caltech.edu> gail@cleese.ipac.caltech.edu (Gail Rohrbach) writes:
>I read misc.jobs.offered
> for awhile, but gave up because I had to go through too many
>posts to find the occasional data analysis or general engineering jobs.
>(The subject fields are not always good for determining this sort of thing.)

   My own experiences as a "computer person" indicate that only the
occasional post is relevant to *any* specific person.  Of course, if
you created a group call "misc.jobs.offered.for-joel," not only
would I read it religiously, but I would find it very convenient.

>So I think if this group develops, careful attention should be paid to
>(1) defining the group's charter as unambigously as possible, and (2) making
>sure prospective employers KNOW it's there, understand it, and find it easy
>to use.

   The whole entry-level thing has convinced me that neither of the
above desires can be realized.  A charter is basically useless, and
employers will not, as a whole, use a new group exclusively anyway.
(I've so far only used the group for posting positions, not seeking
them.)
--
Joel Plutchak, Research Programmer/Analyst
From: ruben@pollux (Ruben Robles Bermudez)
Newsgroups: misc.jobs.misc
Subject: Openings and opportunities on Wisconsin
Date: 17 Nov 92 04:48:02 GMT
Organization: University of Georgia, Athens
X-Newsreader: Tin 1.1 PL4

I am finishing my MS in computer sciences and will be moving
to Madison, WI in the next weeks.  I want to know about
job opportunities in the computer programming area on
that city or in Milwakee.

Any information or directions greatly appreciated, in
such case send email to:

ruben@pollux.cs.uga.edu, or
rubenr3@aol.com
Newsgroups: misc.jobs.misc
From: doi@jrd.dec.com (Hitoshi Doi)
Subject: Re: Employment in Japan?
Organization: DEC Japan Research and Development Center
Date: Tue, 17 Nov 1992 05:29:37 GMT

In article <75T7TB1w165w@netlink.cts.com>, gregb@netlink.cts.com (Greg Beron) writes:
# Does anyone know about employment opportunities for foreigners in Japan?  
# She is an expereienced legal secretary, and my guess is that her best bet 
# is one of the U.S. firms over there, but any other ideas would be 
# welcome.

The job market is not very good now.
You will need a visa that allows you to work.
If one comes in on a tourist type visa, you won't get work.
I know some people looking for work..
But I always see a lot of ads in the Japan Times newspaper for women.
(In Japan it is allowed to discriminate against men for these jobs.)
Many jobs require some level of both Japanese and English ability though.

# Also, can anyone tell me about commuting between Yokohama and Tokyo?

Going across Tokyo takes more time than going from Yokohama to Tokyo.
The shortest commute from Yokohama to Tokyo can be around 30 minutes.
The longest commute can be 3 hours.  It all depends on where you are
in Yokohama, and where you want to go in Tokyo.

--
Hitoshi Doi, International Open Systems Engineering        doi@jrd.dec.com
Japan Research and Development Center               decwrl!jrd.dec.com!doi
Digital Equipment Corporation Japan          [from Japan: doi@dec-j.co.jp]
Newsgroups: misc.jobs.misc
From: thomae@eos.ncsu.edu (DOUGLAS ALAN THOMAE)
Subject: Re: New group?
Originator: thomae@boomer.csl.ncsu.edu
Reply-To: thomae@eos.ncsu.edu
Organization: North Carolina State University
Date: Wed, 18 Nov 1992 16:33:23 GMT


In article <1992Nov17.235555.7737@leland.Stanford.EDU>, igj@amy13.stanford.edu (Ian Glen Jacobs) writes:
|>Newsgroups: misc.jobs.misc
|>Path: taco!rock!stanford.edu!leland.Stanford.EDU!news
|>From: igj@amy13.stanford.edu (Ian Glen Jacobs)
|>Subject: New group?
|>Message-ID: <1992Nov17.235555.7737@leland.Stanford.EDU>
|>Sender: news@leland.Stanford.EDU (Mr News)
|>Organization: DSO, Stanford University
|>Date: Tue, 17 Nov 92 18:55:55 EST
|>Lines: 9
|>
|>I think there should be a group (I know it would have light traffic)  
|>called something like misc.jobs.offered.noncomputer.
|>
|>There are so few non-computer jobs listed that this new group would make  
|>it easier for non-computer job searchers to find what they are looking  
|>for. It might also increase the frequency of such posts...
|>
|>
|>any responses?
|>

To take the second point first, in my experience creating new groups
to stimulate traffic doesn't work, it just subdivides what already
exists.  As to the first point, not all posters will be aware of
a misc.jobs.offered.noncomputer (or whatever name it might have),
so if you were looking for noncomputer jobs you'd still have to
read misc.jobs.offered to pick up posts from those people who
don't know exactly what group to post to, thus saving you nothing.

Xref: sparky misc.jobs.misc:7782 pgh.general:285
From: kjb@calmasd.prime.com (Ken Brucker)
Newsgroups: misc.jobs.misc,cmu.misc.market,pgh.general
Subject: Re: Career opportunity with 90 yr old company
Date: 19 Nov 92 17:35:09 GMT
Organization: Computervision, San Diego CA

In article <1992Nov18.202302.29852@sei.cmu.edu>, ear@sei.cmu.edu (Eugene Rindels) writes:
> 
> Are you sick of living month to month with no extra cash?  Are you willing to
> work a few extra hours a week to earn a PERMANENT residual income?  
> 
> This company in 1960 had a 95% positive consumer awareness.  Only Coca Cola
> and Chevrolet had a higher rating.  

That's nice and quite irrelevant in the 1990s.  30 years can change a lot of
things.

> If you would like to generate a second income with a TOTAL GROUND FLOOR
> opportunity I will show you step by step by step how to do it.

In the title you say this is a 90 year old company.  How is that "Ground
Floor"?

> 
> Call Mike in the North Hills, Pittsburgh PA at 412-772-1037.

And tell him what you think of advertising on the net!

-- 
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
**  Ken Brucker -- VMS/Ultrix Systems Programmer/Mangler -- Computervision
 **  kjb@calmasd.Prime.COM  
  **  Practice Random Kindness and Senseless Acts of Beauty
From: gail@cleese.ipac.caltech.edu (Gail Rohrbach)
Newsgroups: misc.jobs.misc
Subject: Re: New group?
Followup-To: misc.jobs.misc
Date: 18 Nov 1992 20:29:17 GMT
Organization: California Institute of Technology
NNTP-Posting-Host: cleese.ipac.caltech.edu

In article <1992Nov17.235555.7737@leland.Stanford.EDU> igj@amy13.stanford.edu (Ian Glen Jacobs) writes:
>I think there should be a group (I know it would have light traffic)  
>called something like misc.jobs.offered.noncomputer.
>
>There are so few non-computer jobs listed that this new group would make  
>it easier for non-computer job searchers to find what they are looking  
>for. 

I think this is a great idea.  I have a technical degree (BS Physics) and
do some programming for my job, but I certainly am neither interested nor
qualified for a true software or hardware specialist postion.  I read misc.
jobs.offered for awhile, but gave up because I had to go through too many
posts to find the occasional data analysis or general engineering jobs.
(The subject fields are not always good for determining this sort of thing.)

I would caution about the use of the word "noncomputer", however.  This could
mean anything from "you will never touch or see a computer" on the job to
"the majority of your time will not be spent programming."  If prospective
employers make the former interpretation, you would see technical writing
jobs involving occasional use of a Mac still going to misc.jobs.offered -
probably not what is intended. :->

So I think if this group develops, careful attention should be paid to
(1) defining the group's charter as unambigously as possible, and (2) making
sure prospective employers KNOW it's there, understand it, and find it easy
to use.

Just my own $.02,
Gail Rohrbach
Jet Propulsion Laboratory, Pasadena, CA              gail@ipac.caltech.edu
      -- These are my opinions only, not those of JPL or CIT --
From: aw3a+@andrew.cmu.edu (Anatole Wilson)
Newsgroups: misc.jobs.misc
Subject: Re: How dressed is "overdressed?"
Date: 22 Nov 92 09:06:27 GMT
Article-I.D.: andrew.If3xcnC00Uh742o1ga
Organization: Masters student, English, Carnegie Mellon, Pittsburgh, PA


>On 20 Nov 92 16:21:03 EST, bkottmann@falcon.aamrl.wpafb.af.mil (Brett
Kottmann)
> said:
> 
>>	You could probably score big points with your potential boss by calling
>>and expressing your concerns about intimidating people if you overdress, and
>>ask what appropriate attire would be.  Shows (even more) interest and
desire >to
>>get the job.
> 
>Is there anyone out there who would be "intimidated" by someone
>interviewing in a suit?
 
Actually, if I were a hiring manager (which I'm not), I'd be more
concerned about the applicant's obsession with how he or she  dressed. 
 
To me, how you dress on the first interview reflects solely on how
interested you are in the job, and possibly your professional attitude. 
I'd expect a suit whether the company had a dress code or not. Showing
up in torn jeans and putting your feet up on the interviewer's desk
(which I've actually seen people do!) just doesn't cut it. 
 
When I go to a first interview, I wear a black "power-suit." I adjust
the tie to match the personality of the company and the type of job I'm
applying for. (I would not EVER consider wearing a Mickey Mouse tie or
"eccentric" clothing or jewelry.
 
The last company I worked at had no dress code. It was totally
appropriate for me to wear a suit at the interviews, and no one said
anything to me then.  I showed up wearing a tie the first day, and six
different people--in the first ten minutes--yelled at me to lose the
tie. Which I did.
 
Anatole Wilson
----------------------
Business and Technical
Communications
----------------------
Newsgroups: misc.jobs.misc,misc.jobs.resumes,misc.jobs.contract
From: rustomji@sol.cs.wmich.edu (Eric Rustomji)
Subject: WANTED RECRUITERS for 1+ Yr. Experience P-A/DBA, DEDICATED Person
Keywords: Unlimited Dedication, Consistency, Relocation-no problem
Organization: Western Michigan University
Distribution: usa
Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1992 13:44:53 GMT

Hello there,

I am looking for the names and addresses including email, with phone
numbers of RECRUITING agents who can guarantee a job for me, in any 
region of the United States with a competitive salary.

I would higly appreciate if anybody out there can send me a list.

I possess qualifications and a wide experience base which is seldom
found in a person. I have a proven track record of picking up fast
and giving the end-product well ahead of schedule.

If anybody is interested, please call me or contact me at the address 
below.

Thank you.

--
Eric Rustomji

----------------------------------------------------------------
"The World is full of Surprises!"

Eric  Rustomji         
Department of Computer Science    Systems/Lab Consultant
Western Michigan University       University Computing Services

Home Phone: (616) 387 - 5566
       UCC: (616) 387 - 6426

Email:  rustomji@cs.wmich.edu
----------------------------------------------------------------

Newsgroups: misc.jobs.misc
From: bonney@esds.mdc.com (Greg Bonney)
Subject: Please help me not under-sell myself!!
Organization: Visual Simulation Systems
Distribution: usa
Date: Fri, 13 Nov 1992 15:58:43 GMT

I have a possibility for a Sys Admin job in North Western, Florida.
They (the company I'm interviewing with) says the cost of living is lower
than where I live now.  I live in St. Louis, Missouri.  Now, I make about
$32K, so I figure I should ask for about $37K (15% more).  Of course, if
you're from California or New Jersey, this probably seems extremely low.
But in St. Louis it's not bad.  (To move to California, for instance, I'd
probably need to make more like $55K.) If it helps, I have a BS in Comp. Sci.,
and I've got about 4 years experience since graduation.

Unfortunately, when they asked me over the phone, I said "around $35K" (but
qualified it by saying that I didn't know the cost of living there).  Their
reply was "oh, that doesn't sound bad", as if they were expecting me to ask for
much more.  I wasn't expecting to talk about money yet, so it kinda threw me
off guard.  My fear is that I'll get there and be making $20K less than all my
co-workers.  

On top of all that, my wife is a social worker, and I haven't the slightest
idea whether she'll be able to get a good paying job in Florida.  If not, I
should probably ask for more.

Any suggestions?
From: jtien@venice.eng.uci.edu (Joe Tien)
Subject: Commercial or Defense
Newsgroups: misc.jobs.misc
Reply-To: jtien@venice.eng.uci.edu (Joe Tien)
Organization: University of California, Irvine
Date: 19 Nov 92 17:36:17 GMT


Hello everyone,

Here is a general career path question in computer engineering. Assuming comparable pay and type of work done, what are the pros and cons of working
for a commercial company versus a defense company? How about the promotions and
raises and stuff. I know there is no such thing as job security now, but some
comment on the *relative* job security between the two is also appreciated.
Lastly, in comparing job offers, what are the criteria one should consider?

Thanks very much.

Joe Tien
jtien@balboa.eng.uci.edu
From: res_hall_fac@gw.wmich.edu
Newsgroups: misc.jobs.misc
Subject: Michigan Employment
Date: 16 Nov 92 20:28:10 EST
Organization: Western Michigan University


Does anybody know of any positions in the Michigan area?
More specifically the Midland, Bay City, Saginaw, Flint area.

I will be returning there shortly and will be in need of employment.

Thanks!

Newsgroups: misc.jobs.misc
From: adam@Erc.MsState.Edu (Adam Gaither)
Subject: Research positions offered Mississippi
Organization: /frog-home/adam/.organization
Date: Sun, 22 Nov 1992 22:46:22 GMT
Distribution: misc.jobs.misc
X-Posted-From: frog.erc.msstate.edu
NNTP-Posting-Host: sol.ctr.columbia.edu


Job announcement:  Research Positions

Mississippi State University invites applicants for three Research 
Assistant (non-tenure) positions in its NSF Engineering Research Center 
for Computational Field Simulation.  The goal of the Center is to advance 
the state of the art in large-scale computational simulations on geometrically-
complex  physical field problems, and to transfer these technologies to 
industry.  The following positions are currently available at the Research 
Assistant I or II level:

    Scientific Visualization:  Responsibilities include developing new
        scientific visualization methods and paradigms, such as vector field 
        visualization and concurrent visualization of field simulation 
        results.  An MS is required. 

    Computer Graphics:  Responsibilities include development, instruction, 
        support, and maintenance of interactive graphics software for internal 
        and external users.  Knowledge of X/Motif and GL is required.  A BS is 
        require, MS preferred.

    Programmer:  Responsibilities include development, maintenance and support 
        of general software systems.  A strong background in software 
        engineering, complex data-structures, algorithms, and C is preferred.  
        A BS is required.

Demonstrated ability and experience in programming and testing on high-
performance graphics workstations in C and UNIX is required, and a working 
knowledge of FORTRAN is preferred.  Travel may be required in each position.  
Salary is competitive and commensurate with degree and experience.  The Center 
also offers the opportunity for further graduate study  in computational 
engineering, computer engineering, computer science, and various traditional 
engineering studies.

Interested persons should submit a complete resume, including details of 
relevant interests, expertise, and experience, along with names and addresses 
of three references to

    Dr. Joe F. Thompson, Director
    NSF Engineering Research Center for Computational Field Simulation
    P.O. Box 6176
    Mississippi State, MS  39762

Applications will be accepted until December 31, 1992 and continually 
thereafter until positions are filled.  MSU is an affirmative action, equal 
opportunity employer.  Women and minorities are encouraged to apply.