From: ramsey@kona.cs.ucla.edu (Brenda Ramsey)
Subject: Dealing w/Dealers - The art of the deal
Originator: ramsey@kona.cs.ucla.edu
Organization: UCLA Computer Science Department
Distribution: usa
Date: Thu, 27 Aug 92 14:47:24 GMT


In article <BtCGA7.MEo@wpi.WPI.EDU> you write:
>
>
>I have been reading this news group for about 2-3 months now
>and I have yet to see someone detail their experience with dealers
>WHat I am looking for would be a narrative 'story' from first dealer
>visited to final purchase.  How did you decide on the price you wanted, 
>and more importantly what did you do to get it.
>
>
>If you walk in to a dealer and say " $250 over invoice" they may or 
>may not go for it
> 

I sent this to Andy last week and he said I should have posted
it...here goes!

Okay, I will bite !

HISTORY:
Two weeks ago my son informed me that HIS car was being totalled
out by the insurance company and he would be looking for a new
vehicle.  He asked me to foot the loan for him.   After looking
at mid-80's Broncos and finding they were too expensive or junk,
we looked into mini/mid size trucks.  The first day was spent
running around in 105 degree weather and finding that everything
'good' was too expensive. We went to the local Toyota dealer to
see what was in the lot.  He showed us a few items and then said
that for almost the same price we could get a brand new truck.
I told him that I could NOT spend more than $10K "out the door".
By this time my son was feeling that a truck was not for him and
decided to look at VW Jettas.  (I have an 88 Jetta and he 'had'
an 84 Rabbit.  So, all the time we are looking at trucks, out of
the corner of my eye I am looking at the Celicas.

THE FIRST PASS
After looking at some Jettas, I decide to offer my car to my son -
88, sun roof, 4.5 yrs. old and 32000 miles - for $8K.  Four days
later I go to the Toyota dealer and take a test drive in the ST and
GT.  Of course I like the GT because of the pickup and because the
sun roof is 'factory installed'.  We don't really talk price too
much because my son still has to decide if he wants to take my
offer.

THE GOOD PART
Son decides he wants mom's car, but for $6500 - hell he is my son!
His girlfriend is getting anzy because she wants HER car back so
now I am really in the bargaining mood and decide to go in and
haggle with them.  To tell you the truth, I am not a good negotiator
but my friend Pat is.  Besides the salesman was Argentine and she
loves to talk with Argentine men!

We go in on Wednesday night and Pat is doing most of the talking.
I now have invoice pricing and a few other perks (thanks to most of
the net people) so we are ready.  Now, he says the sticker price is
$18,998 (I got another quote from another dealer for $18,888). Pat
is introduced and calmly says "we will give you $10K".  He said
"10 what" and she said $10K. He looked like
he was going to drop his teeeth.  "Well c'mon now, you don't think I
am going to give the car away do you".  So Pat comes back with an
offer of $13,100.  He still is wondering what planet we are from and
shakes his head and goes off to get the manager of sales.  He gives
us his 'talk' and says to be realistic.  We tell him we have given them
two offers and they have not counter offered either one!  We 
bicker back and forth and finally come up to $14K  He says
we have to offer at least over $15K - so I come back and say, "Okay,
I will give you $15,001.  He shakes his head, Pat pulls my sleeve and
we get up and leave telling him that "you have my number".

GETTING BETTER
We drive 30 miles out to the largest Toyota lot in the country and
ask for the sales person with whom I had talked earlier in the day.
He had been the one giving me the sticker price at $18,888. but he
was gone for the day and we got another person.  He also told
me during our phone conversation that they would possibly reduce
the price of a car from approx. $2K - $3K. We took MY car
for a test drive for about 3 miles and went inside to negotiate.
We start out the same way and at $13,500 he goes to the manager
where we get refused. We get up to $14 and refused again - this time
THEY come back and say $17,768 - 5% discount from list. Nope, this
was not good enough for me. We offer him $14, then $14,500 then
$14,700. After we got to $14,900 and were still refused we said
with purses in hand, take it or leave it $15,200.  He comes back
out and says $15,800 is the best we can do.  We ask for a few minutes
of privacy to discuss the matter and say we will give him $15,500.
He says he can't go back in there again and that is their final
offer.  We take it.  We figured out that I got a 16.25% discount
from the sticker price.   I swear the salesman was happy it was over.

He says we can drive it home, but Pat doesn't drive a stick shift
and we have two cars - they agree to wait until tomorrow.  At this
point I don't even have a loan, but that was the least of my
worries.  Back out there last night to sign my life away and with
us we bring Pat's neighbor who is in the market to purchase a new
Camry within the next two weeks.  Good salesman ship deserves a
second chance.  I drive home happy and don't sleep most of the
night  from anxiety.

THE ULTIMATE
Talk to Pat in the morning and we are laughing about the original
dealer - he would not even negotiate with us.  I was wondering
if I would get a phone call from them.  This afternoon, lo and
behold, the salesman calls and asks if I bought a car. I tell 
him yes I did.  He asks if it was from Longo Toyota and I say yes.
He asks if it was getting a LoJack installed and I say yes.  He
asks what I paid and I told him that I didn't feel free to tell him
the exact price but it was definitely in the ballpark of my last
offer to him ($15,001).  He says, well I would have given it to you
for around $15. and I told him that his boss never even tried to
negotiate with me. I also told him that we brought another friend
to Longo with us and most likely she would be purchasing a car from
them within two weeks and I didn't know if I wanted to bring her
to his store.  The killer is that he says he thought my friend was
too pushy and if it was my car I should have been talking.  He said
I know she is from my country (Argentina) and I tell him NO, as a matter
of fact, she is from Brooklyn, NY and had lived in Spain for 5 years.
He shut up pretty quick realizing that they had blown it.  I was
trying to figure out how he knew and then remembered that I had
told him my brother worked at the Buick dealership next door.  I
got a nice discount on my Lojack thru him and that is why my
white toyota celica with a sun roof, Longo plates was in the Buick
dealership all day.  I guess he put two an two together.  Eat it!

THE CONCLUSION
We will go back to Longo - the salesman is anxiously awaiting to
barter on another car.  I am sure Sharon (Pat's friend) will get
equally as good a deal.  Word of mouth has always been the best
sales pitch.

I love my car and plan on enjoying it this weekend.

Brenda

ps. hope this isn't too long!  I also told him that Pat was
my 'financial adviser' and managed my funds -- what funds?
f 






-- 
Brenda Ramsey  (213) 825-3643
UCLA Computer Science Department
ramsey@CS.UCLA.EDU
...!(uunet,ucbvax,rutgers)!cs.ucla.edu!ramsey
-- 
Brenda Ramsey  (213) 825-3643
UCLA Computer Science Department
ramsey@CS.UCLA.EDU
..!(uunet,ucbvax,rutgers)!cs.ucla.edu!ramsey
Newsgroups: rec.autos