From: nancyb@os2lan.enet.dec.com (nancy b.)
Subject: After:  how others can help
Organization: Digital Equipment Corporation
Date: Tue, 22 Dec 1992 05:46:53 GMT


re: rsr@soda.berkeley.edu (Roy S. Rapoport)

 > Hmm.  Where to start?

	Hi.  I appreciate your posting.  It reminds me that people 
	still care.  

	I follow this forum mostly to hear from other victims/survivors;
	how they are coping, and what they think about related issues. 
	Sometimes, in reading this forum, it seems that people don't really 
	care; that they'd rather deny this problem exists or intellectualize
	it away or downplay the magnitude of pain it causes.

	So, first of all, thanks.  

	To try to answer your question:

> So ... to ask a rather broad and inspecific question, what do I need to
> know? How can I deal with this, both so I can be there for my loved ones and
> friends who are survivors, if they need me, and so I can deal with this in
> terms of what it does to me? 

	I think decisions about what to do / how to respond should be made
	based on a combination of  1) who you are - (her lover / her 
	friend / an acquaintance)   2) length of time since the assault 
	( < 1 month, < 12 months, or longer?)

	I dug up a lengthy note I wrote on this subject a while ago,
	and appended it below.   When I originally wrote this, I was 
	answering the following question after >, which may not fit your 
	situation exactly...

						nancy b.

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> And what can men do as friends/lovers/spouses/relatives to help support
> women who have been victimized?                                        

Men as friends
--------------
My closest friend at the time of The Incident happened to be male.  His
reaction was to simply spend as much time with me as possible.  He studied
with me, ate with me, slept (literally) with me, held me when I cried or
woke up from a nightmare hitting him.  When he couldn't be with me, he made
sure someone else was.  He was an excellent listener, never asking too many
direct questions but always subtly challenging any absurd statement I made
with a passive maybe-it's-not-like-that observation.  Later, he told me he
was worried I would do something to harm myself.  He probably saved my
life.

Three years later, I am a transplant in a different place with different
and relatively new men friends.  Till most recently, none of my men friends
even knew.  The one that now does know asked me some very tough questions
about my feelings that I could not answer logically...which was slightly
startling to me.  But I am tough now, and can handle any question without
being hurt.  So maybe I am ready to start thinking about what happened so I
can eventually sleep normally.

Timing is important.  One year ago I would not have considered talking to
any male friend about this.  Don't press the issue if she is not somehow
indicating a need to talk about it.   If she does seem to need to talk, put
on a listening cap.  Reword your advice in the form of a question, because
she might be more inclined to accept conclusions she has reasoned out in
her mind instead of ones that you have thought through in yours.


Men as Lovers
-------------
First thought that comes to mind:  Too bad they can't be mind readers.

Knowing this isn't possible, and knowing men justifiably get tired of
either having to be mind readers or suddenly being abandoned, rejected, and
left in a state of confusion as to what they did wrong, I still find it
tough to discuss things I would be averse to doing because of The Incident.

Maybe a discussion could take place outside of the bedroom, but while
sharing an intimate moment together.  Ask her specific questions like
"Would it bother you if I did ....", so that the only thing she'll have to
say is either yes or no.  And in order to get the most honest response,
phrase your question so that there is no hint as to whether this is
something you really want to do or not.

When in bed, be aware of a quick mood change or a sudden resistance when
there was none before that might indicate something is feeling wrong.  Be
cautious with expressing sexual assertiveness, especially if it is of a
nature you have never expressed before.

Of course, when making love to someone who's most recent sexual experience
was a violent one, it is extremely important to be sincerely gentle and
take things very slowly.  I've read that men who make love to a woman the
first time after her rape find it quite exciting, as though they were
making love to a virgin.


Men as Relatives
----------------

I think men who are relatives can potentially be the most helpful of all,
dependent on a close relationship existing before the rape occurred.  This
especially applies to brothers.  You grew up with her and could know better
than any other person how she is likely to react to this experience.
Strong guidance might be what is needed immediately following the incident.


Men as Spouses
--------------

I will punt on this one...

I guess a combination of Men as Friends and Men as Lovers from above ... if
spouse = friend + lover ...

Hope this helps.
                                                       nancy b.

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Newsgroups: talk.rape