HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: bill@nsma.arizona.edu (Bill Skaggs)
Newsgroups: alt.drugs,sci.psychology
Subject: Re: instant addiction?
Date: 24 Jul 92 04:47:41 GMT
	<1992Jul21.192412.3344@bradley.bradley.edu>
	<BILL.92Jul21211819@ca3.nsma.arizona.edu>
	<1992Jul23.022800.3797@csccat.cs.com>
Organization: ARL Division of Neural Systems, Memory and Aging, University of
	Arizona

larry@csccat.cs.com (Larry Spence) writes:

   >One thing I recall reading in the days before crack is that
   >supposedly, cocaine is very psychologically addicting, BUT... if a
   >person cannot find any cocaine, they will fairly quickly "lose
   >their addiction."  In other words, an "addict" will look
   >frantically for more cocaine, but if they know that they _cannot_
   >get any (e.g., they're in solitary confinement in jail), they will
   >not experience much psychological distress after a day or two.  Is
   >this typical?  Would they become psychologically re-addicted if
   >the drug was available again? 

The currently accepted definition of addiction is that it means being
willing to do things that are damaging to oneself and to others in
order to obtain a substance.  By this definition most of the people
you describe are addicted the whole time.

The presence of a "withdrawal syndrome" was once considered a
necessary part of the definition of addiction, but no longer.  Cocaine
withrawal does not cause anywhere near as much distress as heroin
withdrawal, but that does not make it a whit less addictive:  cocaine
addicts are just as willing to destroy their lives for cocaine as
heroin addicts are for heroin.

	-- Bill
Newsgroups: alt.drugs
From: drk20509@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (mighty odin)
Subject: Schroom drying (cont)
Organization: University of Illinois at Urbana
Date: Wed, 29 Jul 1992 22:34:54 GMT

	Why is sufficient and necessary for proper drying of schrooms?
I know whenever I keep store-bought schrooms in the fridge they end up
being a pittance of their original size, completely dry. Someone once
said to keep the full size of schrooms, they must be frieze-dried. I 
would imagine that leaving magic mushrooms in the fridge uncovered would
have the same effect of shrinking and drying the fruit.
	If anyone does have useful information concerning mushrooms
harvesting, storage etc, I suggest/ask that they send it to either Lamont
or to myself. It could then be anonymously appended to the current file
and posted. Begin sending valid info ... NOW!
-dwk
Xref: sparky alt.drugs:13839 sci.psychology:3358 talk.politics.drugs:5489
From: billn@hpcvaac.cv.hp.com (bill nelson)
Newsgroups: alt.drugs,sci.psychology,talk.politics.drugs
Subject: Re: Partial Legalization
Date: 30 Jul 92 19:50:27 GMT
Article-I.D.: hpcvaac.1992Jul30.195027.1638
Distribution: usa
Organization: Hewlett-Packard Company, Corvallis, Oregon USA

jpk@Ingres.COM (Jon Krueger) writes:
: bill nelson writes:

: > I have seen no data - or studies quoted by you - maybe I missed them.
: 
: I said summarize, not present.
: 
: > There was a posting listing a whole series of studies - these studies
: > went counter to your arguments.
: 
: If you read what I wrote, you'll discover that I made no assertion
: counter to them.

I beg to differ.  For example, you listed cocaine as being highly addictive
with the potential to cause addiction after one or two uses. This is totally
contrary to the evidence presented by the other posting.

: >> Why should we limit inquiry to a particular species?
: >
: > Because we are concerned with drug actions on people.
: 
: No, we are concerned with addiction.  Moreover, aspects peculiar
: to a particular species are unlikely to lend leverage to
: treatment.  Species specific behaviors tend not to be tractable.

But, rat behaviors have little to do with the behaviors of humans either.
At least, most humans. Nor do addictive patterns in rats necessarily have
much to do with addictive patterns in humans. If you are concerned with
drug addiction and treatment in humans, then you must study the reactions
of humans to the drug. Any other animal studies are only vague indicators
of what might happen with people.

: > How do you measure addictive potential or abuse potential?
: 
: Apparently you missed the article in which I summarized an
: operant procedure.  I'll e-mail you same on request.

Please do so. I hope it has some definitions.

Bill
Newsgroups: alt.drugs,sci.med,talk.politics.misc,talk.politics.drugs
From: al037@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Dave Polewka)
Subject: Re: Definition of an addict.
Reply-To: al037@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Dave Polewka)
Organization: Case Western Reserve University, Cleveland, OH (USA)
Date: Wed, 29 Jul 92 23:58:23 GMT


In a previous article, cfaks@ux1.cts.eiu.edu (Alice Sanders) says:

>I think the most absurd example of behavior that is termed a 'sickness'
>was when that baseball player Pete Rose tried to excuse his activities by
>claiming to have a gambling addiction.  From what I could tell, he also
>had a lying addiction, an irresponsibility addiction, and was some kind of
>sociopath because he didn't think anybody could see through it all.  I
>think we have made a big mistake claiming 'illness' for controllable
>behavior.  

 How much time have you spent studying addiction
 and recovery?  I've been at it for over 6 years.
-- 
=======================
"Endeavor to persevere"
=======================
Newsgroups: alt.drugs
From: dmh@world.std.com (David M Harmon)
Subject: Re: LSD - After effects
Summary:  Covered in article . . . .
Organization: The World Public Access UNIX, Brookline, MA
Date: Thu, 23 Jul 1992 14:59:31 GMT

Much of this was covered in the Boston Phoenix article I posted
a while back.  To summarize, the problems of acid come
in four forms, as found by researchers:

	1)  Bad trips -- panic or psychosis *while* *on* *the* *drug*.
This is a really traumatic experience, and there is some guessing that
a bad trip may cause chronic panic disorder (nasty!) later in life.

	2) Flashbacks/Free Trips.  My impression is that these usually
recapture the feelings, attitude, and experiences of some *previous*
trip.  What causes them is scientifically uncertain, but my firm
belief is that an acid-head has potentially "learned" (or gained a
tendency) to reach the "trippy" state without the drug.  When the head
happens to get into a similar state, they then slip into a free trip.
This can be inconvenient, but not usually a big problem unless you
start acting irrationally (social problems) or flash back to a
*bad* trip.  (See above!)

3)  Perhaps one person in a thousand has their latent psychosis
triggered by acid.  Probably would have happened eventually
anyway, but still nasty.  Typically happens within their first
three of four trips.

4)  "Post hallucinogen sensory disorder" -- after tripping, you
start to see things -- [quoting from the article]

	"continuous visual disturbances of an abstract nature, such as 
	flashes of light, auras, patterns of dots vibrating in the air, 
	trailing, after-imagery.  These things can go on forever.  Post 
	hallucinogen syndrome occupies a spectrum -- some people react 
	occasionally, some every few seconds." 

This can happen all the time, just when you get tired, or somewhere
in between.  This probably would include an extra portion of corner-
of-the-eye sightings.

Note that many perfectly normal people see certain things:

"floaters" -- ghostly bacteria-like things, especially when looking at
a bright surface.  These are bits of cellular trash floating in the
fluid of your eyeballs.

Corner-of-the-eye sightings: -- common source of ghost stories,
etc.  You might see more with PHSD.  I don't know what causes them.

Moving sparks of light when staring at a blue sky.  I don't know what
causes this, either.  The channelled spirit Hilarion claimed these are
the inhabitants of the Kingdom of the Air.  Of course, Hilarion also
predicted Armageddon to happen back in the early 80s.
(_Other_Kingdoms_, published under H's name.)

A few people can also naturally "see" sounds, smells, etc., or
vice versa.  This is called synesthesia.  The Russian author
Vladmir Nabokov (of _Lolita_ fame) had this, and described it
wonderfully in his autobiography, _Speak,_Memory_.  It often
runs in families.

	Pedantically,

-- 
-----------------------------------------------------------------
Bad things happen to bad people, too. But we don't care as much.
					Nico of Elbows

Newsgroups: alt.drugs
From: bz206@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Joseph Hack)
Subject: Re: how much L. have folks done?
Reply-To: bz206@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Joseph Hack)
Organization: Case Western Reserve University, Cleveland, OH (USA)
Date: Wed, 22 Jul 92 05:57:33 GMT


In a previous article, jcollier@ariel.its.unimelb.EDU.AU (John Donald Collier) says:

>In <1992Jul20.182858.2676@csdvax.csd.unsw.edu.au> u8951608@csdvax.csd.unsw.edu.au writes:
>
>>N2O is great, as is THC. But DMT with LSD?? There is a partial cross-tolerence
>>at least. I reckon that you would somewhat waste the DMT (from experience),
>>and merely get a physical rush rather than a hallucinogenic one.
>
>Opposite: DMT totally screens the LSD experience. There is no

Well, I have found them to be very synergistic.  DMT will overwhelm
the LSD for the first 10 minutes, but after that, you stay on a
level much higher than you were before taking the DMT.

>cross tolerance. DMT does not cause any tolerance, as far as
>I know, & I have reason to know. There may be some "tolerance"
>in naive subjects (say, less than 100 times with each drug), 
>but I wouldn't know.-- 

DMT with LSD and Aminorex is probably the weirdest experience possible.
You know how some psychedelics seem to take you out of normal space,
and into E-space or whatever?  The above combination lets you exist
in all possible spaces simutaneously.  Its really too bizarre to 
explain.  Just try it sometime.

J
Newsgroups: alt.drugs
From: gaspar@inf.ethz.ch (gaspo)
Subject: Re: Cookin' with da green guy
Keywords: anus
Organization: Twilight-Zone-Algorithms-Incorporated
Date: Thu, 23 Jul 1992 11:08:42 GMT

In article <21JUL199222455438@romeo.caltech.edu> joelong@romeo.caltech.edu (Long, Joseph Louis) writes:
>very different trip than smoked mj, right?  My question is: Is it just
>as potent?  In other words do you need the same quantity to "get off"
[..]
>If someone has a real answer to this, or someone just breaks down
>and does an experiment :-) the info should be put into one of the 
>FAQs, no?

I don't know excactly what a "real" answer is, but when I make brownies,
I have found that at least 3 times, and best at 5 times the smoking
amount is what it takes for a comparable buzz level.  Now, this may seem
like a waste, but remember that an eating buzz also usually lasts nearly
the same amount longer.

so, if 1gH smoked = 2 hours buzz at buzz level 5,
 then ~4gH eaten  = 8 hours buzz at buzz level 5,
   or ~1gH eaten  = 4 hours buzz at buzz level 1.

These numbers are averages, and can be off by 1 or 2 hours either way,
but I think you can see what I mean.  Plus, I did count in the onset
time (1/2-2 hours depending) on the eating times.

ROT: if you have lots of it, eat lots of it. its better for you.
     if you do NOT have lots of it, smoke it.  otherwise its a waste.

The main problem here is: how excactly do you measure a "buzz level" ?
This is kind of a qualitative answer to a quantitative question, and may
not be the "real" answer you are looking for.

--gaspo.


- Scott "gaspo" Gasparian / Dept. Informatik -    |    - Umwelt    -
- Stabstelle Software / System Administrator -  \ | /  -  Schutzen,-
- ETH-Zentrum,  CH-8092 Zurich,  Switzerland -  _\|/_  - Rad       -
- gaspar@inf.ethz.ch     /   +41'01'254'7205 -   '|`   -  Benutzen.-
Newsgroups: alt.drugs,sci.med
From: mbcamps@hubcap.clemson.edu (Matt Campbell)
Subject: Re: What is the Health Risk from Smoking MJ?
Organization: Clemson University
Date: Thu, 30 Jul 1992 15:20:31 GMT

Is Nicotene a carcinogen?  What is the definition of a carcinogen?



MatT
***************************************************************************
*         Matt Campbell			"I'm the one that's got to die    *
*         Computer Science	         when it's time for me to die     *
*         Clemson University		 so let me live my life.......    *
*         mbcamps@hubcap.clemson.edu		the way I want to."       *
*            								  *
*						-James Marshall Hendricks *
***************************************************************************
 
Newsgroups: alt.drugs,sci.chem
From: jonathan@psych.psy.uq.oz.au (Jonathan Dwyer)
Subject: Sodium Pentathol action
Followup-To: alt.drugs,sci.chem
Organization: Psychology Department, University of Queensland
Date: Fri, 24 Jul 1992 03:16:29 GMT


This is a FORWARDED REQUEST from a newsuser who cannot access
alt.drugs and sci.chem, so PLEASE REPLY VIA EMAIL to:

                          Don Gallogly
                          EUP_DG@CWU.bitnet

The question is:

>Can someone please inform me as to both the chemical and
>behavioral effects of sodium pentathol (truth serum), that is,
>how and why does it work??

Jon.


Newsgroups: alt.drugs,talk.politics.drugs,sci.psychology
From: zane@ddsw1.mcs.com (Sameer Parekh)
Subject: Re: Reverse aversion response = instant addiction? (was Re: Partial Legalization
Organization: ddsw1.MCS.COM Contributor, Chicago, IL
Date: Wed, 22 Jul 1992 04:13:17 GMT
X-Disclaimer:  Material posted in this article is the sole responsibility of
                the poster and does not represent MCSNet or the system owners.


	[Information about reverse aversion response deleted]

	_A Clockwork Orange_ anyone?

-- 
  _Sameer_Parekh_zane@ddsw1.MCS.COM_zane@infopls.chi.il.us__________________
 / STOP The War on Rights          | | Restore liberty in the United States \
 | "Specialization is for Insects" | | Vote Libertarian 1992          ______/
 \________- Robert A. Heinlein_____/ \_ap.2363@cupid.sai.com (anon)__/
Newsgroups: alt.drugs
From: mtymp15@epx.cis.umn.edu (David Hutton)
Subject: Johnny Marijuana Seed
Organization: University of Minnesota
Distribution: international
Date: Wed, 29 Jul 1992 15:39:57 GMT

We have been doing this for some time (re planting seeds all over) and the 
fun of it is doing it with style,

i.e...... plant them in public spots (post offices, banks, large estates,
politicians lawns...) and then take pictures before you harvest to use
as blackmail.



Just kidding, FBI CIA NSA types who may/may not be reading this.

A friend asked me to post this.

=+->The Muffster<-+=

-- 
It is better to light a candle then to curse the darkness....
mtymp15@epx.cis.umn.edu  OR  muffman@tfsquad.mn.org

meow
Newsgroups: alt.drugs
Subject: RFD: Recipe FAQ
From: feinstei@vax.sonoma.edu
Date: 21 Jul 92 18:28:04 -0800
Organization: Sonoma State University
Keywords: d{

I was wondering if there is any interest in a FAQ containing recipes 
appropriate for this group... Any comments?

Josh
From: brent@myka.questor.wimsey.bc.ca (Brent J. Krawchuk)
Newsgroups: alt.drugs
Subject: Re: Info. on nutmeg
Date: Fri, 24 Jul 1992 02:14:53 GMT
Organization: Spontany Institute

In article <BruvwD.IB2@acsu.buffalo.edu> pck@acsu.buffalo.edu (Philip C.  
Kilinskas) writes:
> Safrole is the essential oil which converts to MDA/MDMA; I believe 
> the precursor to TMA is asarone, which isn't present in any significant
> ammount in nutmeg.  
> Phil

Right. But it -is- found in Calamus Root, once chewed by Canadian Indians.
It is the most vile stuff I have ever tasted. I did start to stop gagging after  
several training attempts, however. I guess these Indians did it, among other  
reasons, to pass the time on long trips. I can see why: makes one feel as if  
one has no legs while causing fascinating time dilation. Still not worth the
effort, IMO, though. Then again, I never did try too much, due to problems with
becoming violently ill. 

Nutmeg is -very- variable in effect per user -- depends on the person.
I had a horrible several-day experience on it that put me off "natural highs"
forever. For other people, it has little effect. I'm not sure why. I've read  
about inmates who would do a couple of =cans= of the stuff to get some effect.
My bad experience was on 5 tablespoons (when I was young and stupider).  
Probably, it has more to do with the brand/quality of the nutmeg ie. proportion  
of "essential oils" than with personal metabolism of it.

I can see why these things are (semi)legal: they have natural deterrents to  
them. Pity that the (evil) powers that be don't consider the sleep-disruption 
properties of Sidney to be a strong enough deterrent. 
I guess its all politics, eh.
-- 
Bj          <brent@myka.questor.wimsey.bc.ca>	
            <krawchuk@cs.sfu.ca> 
Think, then act.	(NeXTMail desired)
Newsgroups: alt.drugs
From: ibarrett@casper.cs.uct.ac.za (I G Barrett)
Subject: Drugs costing the US $76 billion
Keywords: Real cost of drugs
Organization: Computer Science Department, University of Cape Town
Date: Mon, 27 Jul 1992 19:00:00 GMT


Your article/letter follows:
In <machman.712195642@milton> machman@milton.u.washington.edu (The Machman) writes:
>cklausme@jarthur.claremont.edu (Chris Klausmeier) writes:

>>Reposted for your enjoyment from biz.clarinet.sample (I'd love to see this
>>study!):
>>
>>said drug abuse, compounded by AIDS... skyrocketing health care prices
>>and a jammed judicial system are all draining the U-S economy. In fact,

>too bad they didn't determine what portion of that $76 billion is due
>to the illegality of some drugs versus what portion is actually due to
>the drugs themselves.  i'd bet all my civilly-forfeitable possessions
>that the former far outweighs the latter.

>-- 
> /'''   The Machman     machman@milton.u.washington.edu    david c carroll
> c-OO                                                                      
>    \                     "Big Science.  Hallelujah"

Of course the jammed judicial system is their own fault.  I seem to remember 
someone saying that the aim was to put all (illegal) drug producers, sellers
and users into prison  and that they would build more prisons if necessary.
Does anyone know if 'drugs' included alcohol, nicotine and caffeine since these
drugs surely cost the country more in terms of health care costs than all other
(i.e. illegal) drugs together.
I believe that in Britain the cost to the country due to these legal drugs is 
balanced against the money gained through taxation etc. and they come out way
ahead so it is considered acceptable (tacitly, of course, since no politician
would come out and say it is OK if a few people die because we still make a
profit).

Comments, opinions?

Swan
brrian04@uctvax.uct.ac.za

Xref: sparky alt.drugs:13902 sci.med:14967
Newsgroups: alt.drugs,sci.med
Subject: Re: Cancer risk of marijuana
From: <DGS4@psuvm.psu.edu>
Date: Fri, 31 Jul 1992 14:12:36 EDT
Organization: Penn State University

In article <1992Jul31.165821.23454@hpcvaac.cv.hp.com>, billn@hpcvaac.cv.hp.com
(bill nelson) says:
>
>DGS4@psuvm.psu.edu () writes:
>
>... deleted ...
>
>: Despite the lack of direct evidence, I think it's safe to say that chronic
>: marijuana use can cause serious health problems.  The lack of direct
>: evidence is probably due more to the lack of chronic marijuana users,
>: rather than the lack of a link between marijuana and health.
>
>: The above summary can be found in "Medical Underwriting" compiled by Richard
>: Bailey.
>
>I suppose that the Rastians in Jamaica are classified as "casual and
>occasional
>users"? Right.

Thanks for your sarcasm.  Now maybe you would care to offer some evidence
(maybe a summary of a published article?) which shows that high use of
marijuana among Jamaicans controlling for other factors, is not related
to health problems.

Dennis G. Shea, Penn State
<<DISCLAIMER>>
Ain't nobody's bizness but my own. I'll be happy to accept all
the credit for anything I've written.  It's funny, however, how
employers only acknowledge the profitable ideas.
Xref: sparky alt.drugs:13862 talk.politics.drugs:5501 rec.music.gdead:13770
From: howland@clipper.ingr.com (Mike Howland)
Newsgroups: alt.drugs,talk.politics.drugs,rec.music.gdead
Subject: Re: Partial Legalization
Date: 30 Jul 92 21:42:13 GMT
Organization: Intergraph Advanced Processor Division - Palo Alto, CA


>hagerp@iuvax.cs.indiana.edu (paul hager) writes:
>
>>dave@bradley.bradley.edu (David Vessell) writes:
>
>>I agree that a lot of this is a matter of semantics.  To me, 'addicted'
>>implies that certain behaviour is conditioned to the point of compulsion and,
>>by that definition, it can't happen in one trial.  At the very least, a person
>>would have to use a drug 3-4 times to set up the compulsion.
>
>Although I tend to agree with statement, I should point out that there
>is a phenomenon called the Garcia Effect (I trust I got that right).
>In essense, a conditioned response can be set up after only one trial.

  The Garcia effect definitely exists.  I've brought several friends to
their first Dead show, and after only one trial, they were definitely
addicted to Jerry's playing...  :-)

Mike.  (howland@clipper.ingr.com)
Newsgroups: alt.drugs
From: dc@ais.org (David Daniels)
Subject: Pot/being sterile
Followup-To: dc@ais.org 
Organization: UMCC
Date: Thu, 30 Jul 1992 08:54:43 GMT

Anyone out there have information on how long it takes for pot to make you
sterile? (sp) If so could you please e-mail it to me.  Thanks, Dc



-- 
________________________________________________________________________
\ E-Mail: dc@ais.org        /\ Comin' from the unpolitically correct    \
 \__________________________\/\ half of this world refered to as       //
                             \_\ The ProjectZ!________________________//
From: larry@csccat.cs.com (Larry Spence)
Newsgroups: alt.drugs
Subject: Re: Xochipilli in _Whole Earth Review_ (was Re: 'Xochipilli' censorship
Date: 22 Jul 92 22:49:50 GMT
Organization: Computer Support Corporation,  Dallas,Texas

In article <7ffmrbp.rcain@netcom.com> rcain@netcom.com (Robert Cain) writes:
>Yeah, don't let the negativity about Xochi Speaks having to do with SIGGRAPH
>disuade you from it, it is a masterpiece and the little booklet is fine.

Maybe (I haven't seen it), but _$28_?!?  That seems pretty steep.  Between
the greedy price and all the loose-cannon ideology spewed by LordNose, I
remain skeptical...

-- 
Larry Spence
larry@cs.com
uunet!csccat!larry or sun!texsun!csccat!larry
Newsgroups: alt.drugs
From: remke@cs.tu-berlin.de (Jan K. Remke)
Subject: Re: WANTED:CANNABUS Seeds
Organization: Technical University of Berlin, Germany
Date: Tue, 21 Jul 1992 17:26:22 GMT

In article <lamontg.711654248@milton>, lamontg@milton.u.washington.edu (Lamont Granquist) writes:
 
> You do realize that people have gotten busted by the FBI for posting
> messages on computer nets don't you?  No one for buying drugs yet, but
> I'm just kinda waiting for it to happen...

Disclaimer and answer to that above:
To all the police of this planet. Realize, that *YOU* have *LOST*
the 'Drug War'. You can bust as many users around the world, but
you won't be able to get the 'real big ones', HA HA HA !!!
So realize, my dear Cops, that you can give it up - you waste time...
I am from the Netherlands, and there a good drug policy is coming up.
(Even if I would be caught smoking a joint, they dont win the war
against the drug, by busting me, they are the *REAL LOOSERS* !!!)

F... the Drug War, motherf... all politicians and drug laws...

Greetings:
Jan.

-- 
Jan K. Remke, Postfach 304041, W-1000 Berlin 30, Tel. auf Anfrage...
remke@cs.tu-berlin.de / remke@nostromo.sub.org (Planet Earth sytems)
--------------------------------------------------------------------
Jesus loves you - Problems remaining: Worldwide Terrorism on Earth !