From: len@schur.math.nwu.edu (Len Evens)
Subject: Re: Hiring quotas and faculty positions (Repost #2)
Organization: Dept of Math, Northwestern Univ
Date: Sun, 13 Sep 1992 15:45:41 GMT

In article <1992Sep12.225349.24333@ucsu.Colorado.EDU> andersmh@ucsu.Colorado.EDU (ANDERSON  MIKE HOWARD) writes:
>My worries are those cases one hears about, when males were being considered
>for a position up until the point that a female applies, after which
>they are no longer considered.  That doesn't mean the female cannot do
>the job, just that a mans chances went from whatever they were, to zero.
>I haven't heard anyone say that THEY would have gotten the job if a
>woman hadn't applied.  I've heard at least 5 or 6 such cases but I won't
>post details anymore because I don't know that they are actually true.
>However, this thread started by such a case.
>
>The worries may be completely unfounded but many men in 
>science it comes down to numbers.  Say only 5% of us will ever get an 
>acedemic position.  Say 5% of the graduate students in the pipeline
>are women.  If there is strong Affirmative Action for women, that
>really is taken seriously, then it seems that the men in science made
>a big career goof, because all the remaining room is reserved for women.  
>For physics these numbers are not far off.  The
>question is how much is Affirmative Action really exercised.  Since I know
>some men are getting positions, it isn't as bad as it could be.  But, in
>physics, there are enough women in the field to completely fill up the
>available positions for the forseeable future.  Very few women, even
>fewer jobs.
>
>
>Mike 
>


I don't know the situation nationally in physics, but it is my impression
that at my university, only a small minority of new appointments in
physics and related areas are women.   In mathematics, nationally, I
would say that if women have an advantage over men, it is very small,
and it is overwhelmed by other factors.   To a large extent, I believe the
`unfairness' of affirmative action (at least in mathematics) is a phony
issue.   If all hirings were done in an entirely race and gender
neutral way (say where the institutions did not know the race or gender
of the candidates), then it would make little difference in the likelihood
of a particular person's getting a job.   The most important issue is
the shortage of jobs which is in part due to the recession but also
due, I think, to  wrong headed government policies about taxes and
support of education.   The other important fact is that the academic
market has now become international, which at least at present, makes
it harder for everyone.  For desirable jobs at research
oriented universities, American citizens are being severely impacted
by competition from highly qualified foreigners.   (Some people have
suggested affirmative action for American citizens.)   On the other
hand, well qualified foreigners seems to have great difficulty in
being considered by institutions with a strong concern about teaching,
even in case where their credentials as excellent teachers are
unquestionable.  The issue of justice for Americans versus justice
for foreigners seems to me to be much more relevant and
much harder to deal with than the question of affirmative action
based on race and gender.

Leonard Evens      len@math.nwu.edu      708-491-5537
Dept. of Mathematics, Northwestern Univ., Evanston, IL 60208
Newsgroups: sci.research.careers