HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: kls@ohare.Chicago.COM (Karl Swartz)
Subject: Re: El Al Disaster
Organization: Chicago Software Works
Date: Tue, 13 Oct 1992 19:07:09 GMT

In article <1b499uINNcrd@terminator.rs.itd.umich.edu> pmc@home.merit.edu (Philip M. Chuang) writes:
>Can someone with the New JP's verify this for me?  I believe both the El Al
>and the China Air Cargo 747's were -200-F's with Pratt and Whitney engines.

Correct.  Here's what I have on the two aircraft:

El Al: registration 4X-AXG, model 747-258F(SCD), construction number
21737, line number 362.  The most current data shows it with JT9D-7J
engines and a MGTOW of 812,000; this had been upgraded from JT9D-7F
engines and 800,000 lb. MGTOW.

China Airlines: registration B-198, model 747-2R7F, construction
number 22390, line number 482.  This aircraft was originally delivered
to Cargolux in 1980 (registration LX-ECV) and was acquired from them
by CAL in 1985, at which time it had JT9D-7Q engines and a MGTOW of
833,000, the maximum for a 747 until the -400.  In the 1988 - 1989
timeframe it was upgraded to JT9D-7R4G2 engines.

>Is this true?  If so does will the Boeing Service Bulletin cover 747's with
>GE or RR engines?  Since I'm pretty sure the Rolls engines have a different
>pylon.

The SB has been reported as covering -100/-200/-300 models with PW and
RR engines, but not GE.  It probably also covers the SP and SR models,
though not the -400 which in most (if not all) cases has completely
redesigned engine/nacelle/pylon assemblies which are interchangeable
with the 767.

I, too, am surprised that RR is included and GE is not.  The GE and PW
engines are comparable in size and weight, while the RR engines are
both shorter and heavier.  The following chart shows relavant numbers,
with fan size and length in inches, weight and thrus in pounds, for
the JT9D variants on the El Al and CAL planes, plus the GE and RR
engines applicable to the 747-200: 

    engine		fan	length	weight	thrust
    ------		---	------	------	------
    PW JT9D-7F		95.6	128.2	8850	48,000
    PW JT9D-7J		95.6	128.2	8860	50,000
    PW JT9D-7Q		97.7	132.2	9395	53,000
    PW JT9D-7R4G2	96.6	182.2	8495	54,750

    GE CF6-50E/E1/E2	86.4	163.0	8490	52,500

    RR RB.211-524B2	85.5	119.4	9814	50,000
    RR RB.211-524C2	85.5	119.4	9814	51,600
    RR RB.211-524D4	85.5	119.4	9814	53,000

Also, at least when the L-1011 and DC-10 were being developed, Rolls-
Royce built their own nacelle and pylon, while Pratt and Whitney and
General Electric both left that to the airframe manufacturer.  Again,
I'd expect PW and GE to be similar with RR rather different.  Odd.

-- 
Karl Swartz	|INet	kls@ditka.chicago.com
1-415/854-3409	|UUCP	uunet!decwrl!ditka!kls
		|Snail	2144 Sand Hill Rd., Menlo Park CA 94025, USA
Vote *YES* for sci.aeronautics.airliners and win a chance at a new newsgroup!
From: pmc@home.merit.edu (Philip M. Chuang)
Newsgroups: rec.travel.air
Subject: Re: El Al Disaster
Date: 9 Oct 1992 15:42:54 GMT
Organization: Merit Network, Inc.  Ann Arbor, MI
NNTP-Posting-Host: home.merit.edu


Can someone with the New JP's verify this for me?  I believe both the El Al
and the China Air Cargo 747's were -200-F's with Pratt and Whitney engines.
Is this true?  If so does will the Boeing Service Bulletin cover 747's with
GE or RR engines?  Since I'm pretty sure the Rolls engines have a different
pylon.
Organization: Sophomore, Mechanical Engineering, Carnegie Mellon, Pittsburgh, PA
Newsgroups: rec.travel.air
Date: Tue, 13 Oct 1992 19:16:54 -0400 
From: Wen Tai Tan <wt00+@andrew.cmu.edu>
Subject: Ticket to London...how?



Newsgroups: rec.travel.air
From: citrin@boulder.Colorado.EDU (Wayne Citrin)
Subject: Re: Which hub/spoke system is best?
Organization: University of Colorado, Boulder
Date: Tue, 13 Oct 1992 23:13:39 GMT

In article <1992Oct13.151619.13535@hemlock.cray.com> par@teak18.cray.com (Peter Rigsbee) writes:
>
>If most of your trips start/end at a hub, you benefit (at least in the
>number of non-stop flights available).
>

In terms of number of flights, you do indeed benefit.  However, travel to
or from a hub is often more expensive, since one or two airlines usually
usually dominate traffic through any given hub, and there is therefore
less competition.

Wayne
-----------
Wayne Citrin   citrin@soglio.colorado.edu   citrin@cs.colorado.edu
From: chris@airdata.socal.com (Chris J. Davis)
Newsgroups: rec.travel.air
Subject: Re: Southwest -- catch?
Date: 13 Oct 92 16:54:06 GMT
Organization: Euroflight Aviation and Computing Corporation, Los Angeles

In article <1992Oct13.051554.20401@wuecl.wustl.edu> gl1@cec2.wustl.edu (Greg Lyon) writes:
>Southwest prides itself in the "10 minute turnaround"...  having the plane
>on the ground for only 10 minutes.  It's quite amazing how they do it, but
>believe it or not it does work most of the time.

Actually it's a 15 minute turnaround...  One reason that this can be
accomplished so consistently is that the B-737 is refueled through a
single high pressure port below the right wing.  Another is that the
first officer typically doesn't leave his/her seat (except perhaps a
quick visit to the head) during the turnaround.  He/she is very busy
with chores for the next leg.  Meanwhile the captain and a member of
the cabin crew might enter the terminal to buy ice cream or hot dogs
for the entire crew.  Not serving meals means less cleaning required
and no loading and unloading of ptomaine^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H meal carts.
Southwest (unlike many majors) has a line policy of alternating legs
between the captain and first officer (i.e. they take turns flying).

To the poster who originally asked "what's the catch?" (Helen Rose?):
I don't think there is one.  IMHO, Southwest is an excellent airline.
Greg mentioned that they have good employee relations.  They do, and
I think that shows in the cheerful attitudes of their crews.  Enjoy.
-- 
  __       __  o  __
 |   |__| |__| | |__   Chris J. Davis INTERNET: chris@airdata.socal.com
 |__ |  | |  \ | ___|                     UUCP: hatch.socal.com!airdata!chris
 EuroFlight Aviation, Los Angeles, CA     ICBM: 34deg12'35"N 118deg29'21"W
From: antoine@Apple.COM (Antoine Duong)
Newsgroups: rec.travel.air
Subject: How to avoid/help ear ache?
Date: 14 Oct 92 19:45:10 GMT
Organization: Apple Computer Inc., Cupertino, CA

Hello,
Does anyone know what the best way to avoid or help with ear
ache on young children while flying? I have a 4-year old can't
stand flying because of this problem, especially on landing.
Thanks...


Newsgroups: rec.travel.air
From: wmorgan@stsci.edu (Windsor A. Morgan)
Subject: Re: Best Timetables (US and Others)
Organization: Space Telescope Science Institute
Date: Wed, 14 Oct 1992 13:44:37 GMT

In article <sjones.719064342@cunews> sjones@alfred.carleton.ca (Stan Jones) writes:
>I'm willing to put up the October US Air timetable they are handing
>out in Ottawa as among the worst.  I imagine this one is also
>available at all US Air outlets and this might not be the firts time
>they have done this (my last US Air tt is from spring 92).  Maybe
>other US airlines do they same?  There are NO connecting flights
>listed.  Instead US Air gives you a half page of instructions on how
>to construct your own connecting flight.  They suggest, of course, 1)
>fly to a hub, 2) fly from the hub, as the best way to do this.  

Of course, you don't have to do this.  You can connect through *any*
of the airports listed, including ones that are not hubs (Kansas City,
for example).

I love USAir's new format (it appeared in July 1992 for the first time).
I like calculating my own routes instead of wading through a huge
timetable looking for the nonstop flights.  Northwest was the first
(and only other) airline I know whose system timetable is just a
listing of direct and non-stop flights.  I *do* wish, however, that
USAir also had the city timetables which included connecting flights
as well, for those who do not wish to plot out their own flights.
Northwest still has these.
-- 
'Verily, there be no leader as wise as the Vision!'
                         Windsor Morgan (wmorgan@stsci.edu OR NHT@PSUVM.BITNET)
                         Space Telescope Science Institute
                         Baltimore, MD   21218
Newsgroups: rec.travel.air
From: ncole@nyx.cs.du.edu (Noah Cole)
Subject: Re: Flight to Cuba from USA
Organization: Macalester College, St. Paul Minnesota USA
Date: Fri, 16 Oct 92 04:54:55 GMT

dgrove@dawn.cs.rice.edu (Dan D Grove) writes:

>>>Hi,
>>>I would like to go to Cuba/Havana from the US but with relations
>>US Airlines are not allowed to fly to Cuba.  One alternative is
>>to fly to Mexico City and handle everything there....

>When I was in Merida, Mexico (on the yucatan peninsula about 200 miles
>west of cancun), there were many travel agencies offering airfares
>(in english) to Havana. in addition, there were boat trips from the
>northern shore of the peninsula, if i remember correctly.

>all of this is subject to faulty memory, of course.

I too saw those in Merida.

But now there are alternatives. There is a charter airline that flys 747's
from Miami to Havana with people going to visit relations etc... so you 
could investigate that.  There are also flights from Canada to Cuba...

Good luck

-Noah Cole
From: CCHB@MUSICA.MCGILL.CA (Hugh Brodie (CCHB@MUSICA.MCGILL.CA))
Newsgroups: rec.travel.air
Subject: ICAO Bans Smoking on All Airlines!
Date: 9 Oct 92 18:21:25 GMT
Organization: McGill University

As of Jan. 1, 1996, all flights will have to be non-smoking.
ICAO (International Civil Aviation Organization) passed this
motion yesterday, proposed by Canada and Australia.

Canadian airlines are already smoke-free on domestic routes,
and will be on all international routes as of Jan. 1, 1993.

If I am not mistaken, Cathay Pacific is the only smoke-free
international carrier at present.

(Why should it take 3 more years? Why not immediately?)


Hugh.
From: llew@bigwpi.WPI.EDU (Lok C. Lew Yan Voon)
Newsgroups: rec.travel.air
Subject: Re: Extra 6000 miles for USAir Frequent Travelers
Date: 9 Oct 1992 20:53:19 GMT
Organization: Worcester Polytechnic Institute
NNTP-Posting-Host: bigwpi.wpi.edu

In article <92283.153045X03@psuvm.psu.edu> X03@psuvm.psu.edu writes:
>USAir is giving extra 6000 miles for its frequent travelers program members
>as a welcome back bonus to attract flyers scared away by the strike, but
>your flight has to begin before (including?) next Friday (10/16).  I think
>USAir express is exclude from this offer.

sounds like a good deal to me. if you fly 4 segments you get 3000 mi.
so a total of 9000 mi. in fact, i'm looking at the possibility of
fying to some place for which i'd have to change plane twice,
i.e., a total of 10,500 mi! on top of that, i'd be using my amex
student voucher (which is going to expire in nov) and only pay $129
without evn have to book the flight in advance.
From: yuan1@husc10.harvard.edu (Nina Yuan)
Newsgroups: rec.travel.air
Subject: Re: USAir versus Delta Shuttle
Date: 14 Oct 92 09:21:16 GMT
Article-I.D.: husc10.yuan1.719054476
 <1992Oct13.151619.13535@hemlock.cray.com> <1992Oct14.025152.16562@athena.mit.edu>

davelett@athena.mit.edu (Richard Sun) writes:

>announcement about the new FF award levels.  Much better...30000 mi./free US,
>40000/free Europe/Asia!  And Medallion is only 30000 base miles now!

Yes, I noticed that too this weekend.  I think the 40,000 miles for a trip
to Europe or Asia is a limited-time thing; I think the free trip must be
taken before the end of April 1993.  I'll have to call them sometime and check.
30,000 for free domestic/Medallion is very nice though. 

I've never taken the USAir Shuttle, though I was very tempted this weekend
with their 6,000 mile Welcome Back bonus.  I've also taken Delta numerous
times, and am very satisfied with their service.

=nhy


-- 
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Nina H. Yuan                               "It's a miracle that curiosity
Harvard College                             survives formal education."
yuan1@husc.harvard.edu                                  - Albert Einstein
Newsgroups: rec.travel.air,can.general,soc.culture.canada
From: clewis@bcarh1d7.bnr.ca (Chris Lewis)
Subject: Re: Closed Flights
Organization: Bell Northern Research
Date: Wed, 14 Oct 1992 13:38:37 GMT

In article <1bavpmINNnr9@iskut.ucs.ubc.ca> mathew@unixg.ubc.ca (Mathew B Englander) writes:
>Recently I was flying on a Canadian Airlines youth standby ticket from
>Vancouver to Toronto. I didn't get on the first two flights, and they
>said the next one wouldn't be for a couple of hours. However, I noticed
>another flight, CP12, leaving sooner. When I asked about it, they said
>it was only for Japanese passengers; it was some kind of connector flight
>for people flying from Tokyo to Toronto via Vancouver.

>They said they could not let me on it because to do so would run
>the risk of Canada Customs impounding the plane.

>Does anyone know the rationale for this? I would have thought that
>airlines should be able to fill empty seats on any flight.

Chances are that this was an aircraft landing in Vancouver for refueling, and
the passengers weren't allowed to get off.  Or, there was a restricted
access for passenger travel from one aircraft directly to another.  This is so that
customs/immigration clearing wouldn't have to be done in Vancouver, only in the
final destination.  This is a significant time saving.

If you were to board the aircraft in Vancouver, you'd "pollute" it w.r.t. customs,
and, perhaps through customs paranoia, provide an opportunity for something or
someone illegal leave the aircraft in Vancouver.

"Impounding" is perhaps an overstatement - delay by several hours is more like it.
Though, customs can get really nasty if riled and just about anything's possible.
[I believe that they did impound a BOAC 747 for a short period because they
believed the airline to not paying enough attention to prevent drug smuggling.]
Newsgroups: rec.travel.air,can.general,soc.culture.canada
From: dave@imax.imax.com (Dave Martindale)
Subject: Re: Closed Flights
Organization: Imax Corporation, Mississauga Canada
Date: Mon, 12 Oct 1992 14:12:12 GMT

In article <1bavpmINNnr9@iskut.ucs.ubc.ca> mathew@unixg.ubc.ca (Mathew B Englander) writes:
>However, I noticed
>another flight, CP12, leaving sooner. When I asked about it, they said
>it was only for Japanese passengers; it was some kind of connector flight
>for people flying from Tokyo to Toronto via Vancouver.
>
>They said they could not let me on it because to do so would run
>the risk of Canada Customs impounding the plane.

I can guess what was happening:  CP has to decide where the passengers
on that flight are going to clear Canada Customs.  They can choose either
Vancouver or Toronto.

If they clear CC in Vancouver, then all passengers have to get off
the plane, locate their baggage, go through customs and immigration,
and then their baggage has to be reloaded for the flight to Toronto.

If they choose Toronto instead, then everyone has to remain on the
plane while they are in Vancouver, but the baggage needs to be dealt
with only at Toronto, a distinct savings in time and hassle for
everyone on the plane.  For this to work, though, Customs has to treat
the plane as if it didn't "arrive" in Canada until Toronto.  If no one
gets on or off in Vancouver, there should be no problem.  It might also
be possible to have Vancouver-bound passengers get off and clear
customs in Vancouver while Toronto-bound passengers have to stay on the
plane - I don't know if CC allows this.  But they certainly won't allow
passengers to get off and back on again, or new passengers to get on,
until the flight has been fully cleared.

This is why flights to the U.S. generally clear U.S. customs in Toronto
and Montreal: the passengers have officially "arrived in the U.S."
before they leave the ground, and so the plane can then stop at a
series of U.S. destinations without everyone having to get off and
clear customs at their first stop.
Newsgroups: rec.travel.air
From: mdivya@world.std.com (Marigowda Divya)
Subject: Re: I need a coupon for air ticket
Organization: The World Public Access UNIX, Brookline, MA
Distribution: na
Date: Thu, 8 Oct 1992 10:36:32 GMT

hafer@apple.com (Rob Hafer) writes:

>> I read in SF newspaper Travel column, that if you open an account
>> at Coast Federal Savings Bank (supposedly located through out California)
>> you can get Travel Certificates for travel on NW Airlines; roundtrip
>> travel to the Northeast is supposed to be $278 roundtrip; I am sure
>> there will be several restrictions.  Hope it will work out for you.

>My understanding from reading the copy of that article is that is has some
>pretty hefty balance requirements (open up a $10k CD account, etc).

a $500.00 checking account is enough to get two coupons;  they charge
$6.00 fee for each coupon and it takes about two weeks to get it.
For an additional fee of $10.00 you can get it in about a week.  I
verified this over the phone and a friend of mine opened an account
($500.00 checking account) and ordered two coupons in my name.  That is
another restriction; the coupons have to be made out to a specific
individual and afterwards it can only be transferred to a family
member.

divya
(mdivya@world.std.com)
From: van_heel@rz-berlin.mpg.de
Newsgroups: rec.travel.air
Subject: To and from EDMONTON Canada ...
Date: 16 Oct 92 14:04:42 GMT
Organization: Rechenzentrum MPG Berlin




      Hello world!



      I need a cheap air connection from any US city (Chicago, 
      Mineapolis, Houston TX, Kansas City, Madison WI ... )
      to Edmonton Canada and back..   I can fly relatively cheap 
      (= VUSA fare) within the US, but US-AIR does not fly to Edmonton.
      (Dates:  Nov 12 - Nov 19)

      Any suggestions?    



      Thanks,

      
      Marin van Heel 

      Fritz Haber Institute of the Max Planck Society   
      Faradayweg 4-6, W-1000 Berlin 33, Fed.Rep.Germany 
      Tel: 49-30-8305380     fax: 49-30-8305509
      E_mail:  Van_Heel@rz-berlin.mpg.de                
            
Newsgroups: rec.travel.air
From: sjones@alfred.carleton.ca (Stan Jones)
Subject: Re: Best Timetables (US and Others)
Organization: Carleton University
Date: Wed, 14 Oct 1992 12:05:42 GMT

I'm willing to put up the October US Air timetable they are handing
out in Ottawa as among the worst.  I imagine this one is also
available at all US Air outlets and this might not be the firts time
they have done this (my last US Air tt is from spring 92).  Maybe
other US airlines do they same?  There are NO connecting flights
listed.  Instead US Air gives you a half page of instructions on how
to construct your own connecting flight.  They suggest, of course, 1)
fly to a hub, 2) fly from the hub, as the best way to do this.  
Newsgroups: rec.travel.air
From: henry@ADS.COM (Henry Mensch)
Subject: Re: Tell if travel agency is legitimate?
Organization: Advanced Decision Systems; a div of Booz, Allen & Hamilton
Date: Wed, 7 Oct 1992 21:31:32 GMT

leop@percy.rain.com (Leo) wrote: 
->On the other hand, don't IATA agents agree to follow certain pricing
->guidelines?

yes.  this insures that the travel agency will be around when it comes
time to deliver the ticket.  deals that sound too good to be true
usually are too good to be true ...  with some (not all ... some)
bucket shops you *are* taking a gamble ...

-> ... I
->did take the precaution of calling the airline and verifying that I
->had both a reservation and ticket issued in my name.  I figured with
->that and ticket in hand I was covered.  All the flights were on
->regularly scheduled airlines - no charters.

yes ... that much, with ticket in hand, usually gives you warm fuzzies
... but anything can be undone.

->Wouldn't paying by credit card afford some protection?  Trip insurance
->would be another possibility.

maybe ... maybe not.  these rules vary by jurisdiction; the original
author was in australia asking about a british travel agent, so
there's lots of room for people to say "oh, those rules don't apply in
this situation."

--
# henry mensch / booz, allen & hamilton, inc.  / <henry@ads.com>
From: woody@castle.ed.ac.uk (I Woodrow)
Newsgroups: rec.travel.air
Subject: Re: Boeing Customer Codes
Date: 15 Oct 92 10:51:17 GMT
Organization: Edinburgh University

pal@regent.e-technik.tu-muenchen.dbp.de (Peter Loibl) writes:

>sjones@alfred.carleton.ca (Stan Jones) writes:

>>But Wardair didn;t have any Boeings, did they?  All they lefgt to
>>Canadian were Airbuses now sold to the Canadian Department of Defense.

>They had some 747-200.


They also had 707s in the 1970s and before that they had at least one 727.

How many 747s did they have anyway ?   I can remember 2 -- these were

  C-FFUN  which is now operated by Nationair Canada
  C-FDJC  Who's that with now ?



-- 
W@@DY_______________________________________________________________________
 /Ian Woodrow, Computing Service, Uni of Glasgow, GLASGOW G12 8QQ, Scotland \
*  <Dog 'n' Bone:  041-330-4800         | e-mail: woody@udcf.gla.ac.uk>      *
 \__________ FAX:__041-330-4808_____________________________________________/
From: jhagen@npri6.npri.com (Jarom Hagen)
Newsgroups: rec.travel.air
Subject: Rates from U.S. to Denmark
Date: 12 Oct 92 17:08:42 GMT
Distribution: na
Organization: NPRI, Alexandria VA
X-Newsreader: Tin 1.1 PL3

I would like to know where I can get the best rates
for travel from Washington, D.C. to Denmark.

Thanks,

Jarom

-- 
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
  *Not paid for and/or endorsed by NPRI.  602 Cameron St, Alexandria VA 22314
  (UUCP: ...uunet!uupsi!npri6!jhagen)       (Internet: jhagen@npri.com)
From: ale@bu-pub.bu.edu (Massimiliano Gasparri)
Newsgroups: rec.travel.air
Subject: 1-way ticket from Boston to LA
Date: 9 Oct 92 16:32:58 GMT
Organization: Boston University

I have a 1-way ticket from Boston to LA. It's a open ticket and you can add
a stopover in between wherever there is a TWA connection for $100.
Make your offer!

-Max Gasparri   ale@bu-pub.bu.edu
Xref: sparky rec.travel.air:5084 can.general:4864 soc.culture.canada:7377
From: mathew@unixg.ubc.ca (Mathew B Englander)
Newsgroups: rec.travel.air,can.general,soc.culture.canada
Subject: Closed Flights
Date: 12 Oct 1992 04:43:34 GMT
Organization: University of British Columbia, Vancouver, B.C., Canada
Distribution: world
NNTP-Posting-Host: unixg.ubc.ca
Originator: mathew@unixg.ubc.ca

Recently I was flying on a Canadian Airlines youth standby ticket from
Vancouver to Toronto. I didn't get on the first two flights, and they
said the next one wouldn't be for a couple of hours. However, I noticed
another flight, CP12, leaving sooner. When I asked about it, they said
it was only for Japanese passengers; it was some kind of connector flight
for people flying from Tokyo to Toronto via Vancouver.

They said they could not let me on it because to do so would run
the risk of Canada Customs impounding the plane.

Does anyone know the rationale for this? I would have thought that
airlines should be able to fill empty seats on any flight.

Mathew Englander.
Newsgroups: rec.travel.air
From: dmarble@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (Duane F Marble)
Subject: Re: Best Timetables (US and Others)
Organization: The Ohio State University
Date: Fri, 9 Oct 1992 21:48:42 GMT

I find that system timetables are a dying lot. Everyone wants to give
me city specific material which is of little use in many situations. Some
airlines (e.g., Continential) don't even (as far as I can see) DO
timetables anymore. Gee! I wonder why nobody flys those routes....
-- 
Duane F. Marble			       E-mail: dmarble@magnus.acs.osu.edu
Department of Geography                Telephone: (614) 292-2250
The Ohio State University
Columbus, Ohio 43210                   Fax: (614) 292-6213
Newsgroups: rec.travel.air