HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: mittle@watson.ibm.com (Josh Mittleman)
Subject: Re: COVINGTON CROSS
Date: Thu, 27 Aug 1992 18:58:39 GMT
Disclaimer: This posting represents the poster's views, not necessarily those of IBM
Organization: IBM T.J. Watson Research Center

Greetings from Arval!

I was tempted Tuesday evening to come in and post a scathing review of
Covington Cross, enumerating all the inauthenticities I saw in it (collect
'em!  trade 'em with your friends!!), but what a couple people have said is
correct: If it were good entertainment then inaccuracies would be
acceptable.  When I watch Conan movies, for example, I don't worry about
how realistic the fighting looks; Conan and his buddies are superheros.
Once you accept that they have to win, everything else works just fine.

The problem was that Covington Cross was appallingly bad and cheaply
produced.  The plot was tissue-paper thin, the characters were pasteboard
and glue, and the action was mind-numbingly dull.  The heroes had the
sparkle of muddy boots and the villians were about as threatening as an
angry gerbil.  How many times do they expect us to get a laugh out of
seeing the youngest son evade his tutor?  In transparent efforts to cut
costs, we were given a baronial castle with only two or three servants
(none of whom had speaking roles), combat that displayed not the simplest
effort to go beyond introductory stage fencing, and costumes that were
unremittingly drab.  It's not surprising that so many of us spent the hour
poking fun at the lack of any attempt at historicity; there wasn't anything
else to hold our attention.

I enjoy good schlock sword & sorcery as much as anyone; this is just bad.

===========================================================================
Josh Mittleman (mittle@watson.ibm.com)
J2-C28 T.J. Watson Research Center, PO Box 704, Yorktown Heights, NY  10598
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
From: grey@bnr.ca (Bryan Miller)
Subject: Re: Gormenghast vol. 3
Keywords: Peake, insanity  
Reply-To: grey@bnr.ca (Bryan Miller)
Organization: Bell-Northern Research Ltd.
Date: Thu, 3 Sep 1992 16:30:07 GMT


|> I'm ashamed to say I hadn't heard of these books until
|> mentioned here, and after searching my local bookstores
|> haven't been able to locate them. Can someone please
|> post the ISBNs so I can order them?
|> 
|> Thanks,
|> Grey
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written,rec.org.sca
From: thorntn@ccu.umanitoba.ca (Duncan Peter G. Thornton)
Subject: Re: COVINGTON CROSS
Organization: University of Manitoba, Winnipeg, Canada
Date: Wed, 26 Aug 1992 19:50:05 GMT

In <1992Aug26.172137.10374@hubcap.clemson.edu> rarnold@hubcap.clemson.edu (robert e arnold) writes:

>Come now!  What do you expect on television.  If you watched the show and
>expected the historical accuracy that the SCA would have attempted, you were
>bound to be disappointed.  The show offers scenery and costumes.  Everything
>else will be pithy 1990's politically-correct garbage.  Watch it in the right
>context, and you will not be so upset that CC leaves much to be desired.

I don't know. I certainly wasn't annoyed by the predictable lack of
authenticity; I was annoyed by how it failed to have any compensating
virtues. The Errol Flynn _Robin Hood_ had anachronistic
sword-fighting, but it was _good_ anachronistic sword-fighting. One
could imagine them saying, "Let's not worry about making this
authentic, let's make it look really flashy." The fighting in
_Covington Cross_ didn't look like they'd put any work into trying to
look flashy, and it didn't look like they were even _trying_ to be
authentic; although the brothers did manage to suggest the
awkwardness of people who had never been in armour before being
dressed up in it on set about half an hour after they got off the
plane at Heathrow.
	_Covington Cross_ seems to have been infected by laziness in
almost every aspect of the production (did the younger brother look
any younger than his "older" brothers? did he not, in fact, look
several years older? did the daughther's fake French accent sound any
worse than the supposedly real Frenchwoman's accent?  did it sound any
worse than the daughter's supposedly real English accent? did most of
the cast, in fact, graduate from the Kevin Costner School of Lousy
English Accents? A good half of them didn't sound English at all -
they sounded like Americans with a speech impediment.) It wasn't even
_fun_, for God's sake. _Buck Rodgers_ was a cheap science fiction show
that didn't have a lot of flash _or_ plausibility, but at least it was
fun.

- Corwin of Lincoln


__________________________________________________________________
Prolongs  |                                       |  Restores 
   *      |   E*L*E*C*T*R*I*C*I*T*Y I*S L*I*F*E!  |     *
 Life!    |                                       |   Health!
__________________________________________________________________
Duncan Thornton                           thorntn@ccu.umanitoba.ca

Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
From: amlsmith@morgan.ucs.mun.ca (Andrew Smith)
Subject: Re: COVINGTON CROSS
Organization: Memorial University of Newfoundland
Date: Tue, 1 Sep 1992 03:56:49 GMT

In article <7337@ds5000.DAC.Northeastern.edu> bnostran@ds5000.DAC.Northeastern.edu (Barbara Nostrand) writes:
>Nobles!
>
>It is very interesting that the question of authentic British accent is
>raised by a subject of the Atlantian throne.  The reason for this being
>that not only is modern UC British English descended from imported
>German monarchs, linguistic researchers actually claim that the closest
>extant approximation to Elizabethan Stratford-on-Avon English is actually
>spoken in Atlantia.  

Greetings from Sebastian, especially to Solveig!
Mmmmm, Shakespearian English in Atlantia? Gee, I thought that we in
Ar n-Eilean-ne (Newfoundland) had the only "English" speakers! As I
understood it, due to severe isolation, they did not loose their accents
or mannerisms of speech. We *still* say POOCH cove for _Pouch_ cove. 
In fact, many tourists can get lost because of pronounciation. 

If you are really interested in following this one further, I ask that
you mail Lady Elanore (I hope that I have that correct m'Lady!)
directly. Ask her about our _Period North American Sites!_

Lady Elanore   (sp)
Colette Goodyear
colette@morgan.ucs.mun.ca

Humbly
Sebastian

Decidedly more ignorant than most

Xref: sparky rec.arts.sf.written:11556 rec.org.sca:12341
From: habura@vccnorthb.its.rpi.edu (Andrea Marie Habura)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written,rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: COVINGTON CROSS
Date: 27 Aug 92 20:11:26 GMT
Organization: Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute, Troy, NY

True to James' .sig, I guess I'm going to disagree with him.

Sooth, our chances of actually changing Covington Cross by complaining to ABC
are about nil. They flat out don't care about historical authenticity; they
want something that will sell toothpaste. 

My point was that *non-SCAdians* watching Covington Cross will get used to the 
idea that basically sane people might think that the Middle Ages are fun. For
the record, I didn't watch Tuesday's episode, and will likely not get around
to watching any of them in the near future; I generally just watch the news.
However, if someone does watch Covington Cross and then discovers the SCA
because of it, all the better. The armor and whatnot may be kludgy, but (judging from the promos) it isn't worse than the average run of SCA events (that is,
averaging the person in the beautiful and documented garb in with the woman
in tights, turquoise leather pseudo-Roman armor and the elf ears).

Alison MacDermot
Xref: sparky rec.arts.sf.written:11536 rec.org.sca:12307
From: kevin@sherman.pas.rochester.edu (kevin mcfadden)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written,rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: COVINGTON CROSS
Date: 27 Aug 92 12:53:31 GMT
Organization: University of Rochester

Well, I for one enjoyed CC.  I didn't try to compare it with anything, I didn't expect it
to be anything other than one of those Twin Peaks/Beauty&the Beast type shows that
build up a loyal following and then watch as their show gets cancelled.  No I am not
saying it is the same intrinsically, but just in the nature I just stated.  CC 
kept the action moving and the plot only had a few holes in it, namely after that one
town saw that evil prince dude's face why didn'y anybody tell anyone?  

	The key word above is enjoyed.  Maybe all of you are out there for deep thought provoking
historically accurate entertainment, but I have enough deep thought crap going on all day
and at night just want to relax.  Grad school is starting up shortly and w/ a full time
job it will be interesting if I even remember to watch CC.  In fact, after seeing all 
of the movies of that genre that I have, I do not think I would know realism if I was
attacked by a real knight anyway.

	Well, I shouldn't get my hopes up anyway because the show is being banned to
that Saturday night time slot that nobody with a real life makes plans to stay in just
to watch.  I may have to get a real VCR that allows for complex programming so 
that I can tape Underdog, Ren and Stimpy, and CC!

	Oh well, sorry for the scattered mind dump of thoughts.  When I hold conversations
the topics come out in parallel as opposed to serial.


I hope somebody out there looked at CC as the mind candy it is and tasted the sweetness.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Kevin McFadden									
University of Rochester		
Department of Physics & Astronomy
Rochester, NY  14627				

	"Stimpy, go answer the flap!"	-- Ren
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: Karl.Glazebrook@newcastle.ac.uk (Karl Glazebrook)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
Subject: Request for help
Date: 1 Sep 92 20:48:54 GMT
Reply-To: ee@star.qmw.ac.uk
Organization: Physics Dept., University of Durham

I was asked to post this by a friend who needs some references for a 
talk, please send help!

Karl Glazebrook

===========================================================================

Hullo -

I got suckered into giving this talk - anyway, to cut a long story short, I am
after extracts from stories or books, sf or otherwise where a scientific
(preferably physical or astronomical) mistake is being committed by the author.

Ground rules:

1. The audience is going to be professional astronomers, so the subtler the
better. 
2. "We didn't know any better" type stuff (oceans on Venus etc) don't count,
we're looking for something that the author could have known.
3. Outright inventions (eg FTL) don't count, but errors arising given such
assumptions do.

Post or e-mail as you please. I can't post myself but I do lurk. I've got a
dozen or so examples already from my own reading - but if you can help and it's
from a book, the approximate location of the extract would be greatly
appreciated. I will compile a summary towards the end of the month, which I
will be happy to send to whoever asks for it - please send to

ee@star.qmw.ac.uk

NOT to the poster, who is gallantly helping me out.

Cheers, 
  Frossie

! Frossie Economou ! Decnet: 19766::ee           ! "Rien ne donne l'impression
! QMW Physics Dept ! Internet: ee@star.qmw.ac.uk !  de l'infini mieux que la
! Mile End Road    ! Fax: 081-981-9465           !  connerie humaine" - anon.
! London E1 4NS    ! Mumble: 071-975-5555 ex4050 ! Disclaimer: ^ Especially mine

===============================================================================
Xref: sparky rec.arts.sf.written:11466 rec.arts.sf.science:2654 sci.bio:3015
From: jwtlai@jeeves.uwaterloo.ca (Jim W "GrimJim" Lai)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written,rec.arts.sf.science,sci.bio
Subject: Re: Are the Moties us?
Date: 25 Aug 92 22:51:52 GMT
Organization: University of Waterloo

In article <1992Aug24.191800.22373@oracle.us.oracle.com> mfriedma@uucp (Michael Friedman) writes:
>>Plus in almost every culture there are
>>cultural pressures to have children (not having them means being
>>traded for another wife, or other nasty things like that).
>
>And why does hubby do that instead of just adopting?  Couldn't be an
>instinct, could it?

Nah.  It's the desire to propagate his wealth and power in a patriarchal
society.  Next!  :)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
From: rhiann@milton.u.washington.edu (Sandra Hereld)
Subject: Re: Books on Magic vs Science
Organization: University of Washington, Seattle
Date: Fri, 4 Sep 1992 17:47:25 GMT

In article <1992Aug26.011006.14454@organpipe.uug.arizona.edu> dave@cs.arizona.edu (Dave Schaumann) writes:
>In article <1992Aug25.131931.1@vaxa.strath.ac.uk>, ciar04@vaxa writes:
>>Are there any books that dwell on the battle between magic and science? 
>>I seem to recall seeing some (or at least one) books on this, but I
>>don't seem to be able to find any at the local book stores.
>
Jack of Shadows posits an earth no longer turning - the light side
run by science, and the dark side run by magic.  There isn't really a
battle between them, but it's good.

Sandy
"Not tonight dear, I'm reading."
.
From: bonscott@ETEK.CHALMERS.SE
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
Subject: Re: SF-LOVERS Digest V17 #214 SF-LOVERS Digest V17 #214
Date: 4 Sep 92 15:20:06 GMT

Please stop sending me this. Thank you.
-----------------------------------------------------------------
            Paer Nilsson * bonscott@etek.chalmers.se             
"The future's no problem / We don't care / 'Cause wherever we're
          going / We'll soon get there." - Terry Adams
-----------------------------------------------------------------
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
From: jhenders@wimsey.bc.ca (John Henders)
Subject: Re: Go to alt.fan...we don't want you(was Re: rec.arts.sf.written FAQ)
Organization: Wimsey 
Date: Sun, 23 Aug 1992 19:09:08 GMT

In article <1b8923ff.ARN23bf@prolix.pub.uu.oz.au> munnari!labtam!eyrie!prolix!dac writes:
>In article <1992Aug20.172402.6995@kakwa.ucs.ualberta.ca>, Aaron Humphrey writes:
>
>> dac@prolix.pub.uu.oz.au (Andrew Clayton) writes:
>> : In article <Bt8voI.Dz0@usenet.ucs.indiana.edu>, Eric Chris Garrison writes:

>> : Go whole hog and put up in LARGE FRIENDLY LETTERS how WONDERFULLY
>> : INNOVATIVE you find Douglas Adams' work, especially the bits
>
>> Douglas Adams' work >was< innovative when it first came out.
>
      INNOVATIVE! Haven't you ever heard of Robert Sheckly? He was doing
the same schtick as Adams, in the 60's. Except he had better drugs. Sheesh.

	John Henders

-- 
John Henders                " Only _my_ words are relevant to the issue " 
jhenders@jonh.wimsey.bc.ca      <1992May11.073237.14684@rotag.mi.org>
 T.K.O.O.C.C                      kevin@rotag.mi.org (Kevin Darcy)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
From: parmentier@iowasp.physics.uiowa.edu
Subject: Re: Looking for info on new Jack Vance book.
Organization: Department of Physics and Astronomy, University of Iowa
Date: Tue, 25 Aug 1992 20:04:38 GMT


In article <5973@taurus.cs.nps.navy.mil>, rpwhite@taurus.cs.nps.navy.mil (rpwhite who is not Kibo) writes:
> I understand it is supposed to be published in October or thereabouts
> and that it is titled "When The Five Moons Rise" or something to that
> effect.
> Does anyone know any more about it?

	It is another UM collection his of short stories.  I don't know
what other stories will be in it, but the signed edition will be $50 and
the unsigned $30.

-- 
"I'm not a programmer, but I play one at work." _/_
 _, .__  _  _,  _,     _   _, .__  ____  _  __  / o _ .__
(_)_/ (_(/_(_)_(_)_   |_)_(_|_/ (_/ / /_(/_/ /_/_/_(/_/ (__
 /|         /|  /|   /|      ___ Gregg  Parmentier ___
|/         |/  |/    |/ parmentier@iowasp.physics.uiowa.edu
From: cozzlab@garnet.berkeley.edu ()
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
Subject: Re: Bland Prejudice (was Re: Wolvertons "On My Way to Paradise)
Date: 27 Aug 1992 00:41:22 GMT
Organization: University of California, Berkeley
NNTP-Posting-Host: garnet.berkeley.edu

In article <1992Aug26.220438.8489@pasteur.Berkeley.EDU> curtis@cory.Berkeley.EDU (Curtis Yarvin) writes:
>
>Scientology scares me.  It scares any reasonable person.
>But burying your head in the sand is no answer at all.
>
I never bury my head in the sand.  But there are patches of the sand
across which I will not walk.

(Not that anybody's been _asking_ me to, mind you!  Nobody is willing to
publish my stories except Marion Zimmer Bradley, which gives you an idea
of their relative market/artistic value.  You will just have to take it
on faith that if I _were_ asked, I wouldn't.)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
From: francis@dogwood.atl.ga.us (John Stracke)
Subject: Re: Continuing Time
Organization: National Science Center Foundation
Date: Fri, 28 Aug 1992 12:57:37 GMT
	<1992Aug27.021755.7022@kithrup.COM> <BtMMuG.83C@news.cso.uiuc.edu>
	<17ip1iINNri@darkstar.UCSC.EDU> <BtnLvI.4uu@news.cso.uiuc.edu>
	<FRANCIS.92Aug27165324@galois.dogwood.atl.ga.us>


In article <FRANCIS.92Aug27165324@galois.dogwood.atl.ga.us>
francis@dogwood.atl.ga.us (John Stracke--that's me) writes:

>In article <BtnLvI.4uu@news.cso.uiuc.edu> ndj20710@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (Nathan D. Johnson) writes:
>
>>You forget, the elevator that Trent was in is found open by Vance(Melissa was
>>startled to discover it open, since it had been empty just a few moments
>
>Right--"Less than five seconds", she says.

Excuse me--forty-five seconds.

[...]

>>Finally, It is not impossible that trent glued the wall back in place, but
>
>I believe he had lost the glue by this time.  I'll have to reread.

I checked last night, and he had indeed lost (or used up) the glue.
See page 356.  (As rare as this book is, I'm assuming there aren't
multiple publications of it.) He had the emblade, a spraytube of
fadeaway, a sonic bomb, and a spool of fineline.  No glue.

OK, what do you guys think? This would seem to make it difficult to
impossible to believe the hologram-of-a-wall idea, since, as someone
pointed out, there were too many people there not to notice a hole cut
in the wall (also, somebody would notice eventually, right? ;-).  The
voiceprint problem is the only explanation *I* can think of for
Trent's silence (this is the guy who, with a PKF Elite [Garon]
standing a few meters away, said "Catch me if you can"--not someone
naturally inclined to shut up).  I think I'm back to the
hologram-of-Trent idea.

--
/===========================================================================\
|John (Francis) Stracke         |My opinions are my own.                    |
|Natl. Science Center Foundation|===========================================|
|Augusta, GA                    | We want forty million helicopters         |
|francis@galois.nscf.org        |  and a dollar!--"Dinosaurs"               |
\===========================================================================/
(Formerly francis@dogwood.atl.ga.us,francis@zaphod.uchicago.edu)
-- 
/===========================================================================\
|John (Francis) Stracke         |My opinions are my own.                    |
|Natl. Science Center Foundation|===========================================|
|Augusta, GA                    | We want forty million helicopters         |
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
From: sef@kithrup.COM (Sean Eric Fagan)
Subject: Re: Upcoming Books till June
Organization: Kithrup Enterprises, Ltd.
Date: Mon, 31 Aug 1992 19:43:43 GMT

In article <BtusHB.KH7@apollo.hp.com> betsyp@apollo.hp.com (Betsy Perry) writes:
>In article <b#gnyjl.dani@netcom.com> dani@netcom.com (Dani Zweig) writes:
>>Adams, Douglas, Mostly Harmless, Random House HC, Nov
>Unlike Pratchett, Adams got unfunnier with each passing novel.
>I'll probably borrow this from the library.

Maybe, but I think that _So Long, and Thanks for All the Fish_ was better
written, and a better story, than _The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy_.

-- 
Sean Eric Fagan  | "You can't get lost in one room, no matter how
sef@kithrup.COM  |  little effort you make to learn your way around."
-----------------+    -- William E Davidsen (william@crd.GE.COM)
Any opinions expressed are my own, and generally unpopular with others.
From: rpickeel@iastate.edu (Robert G Pickel)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
Subject: Re: Octavia Butler question
Date: 28 Aug 92 17:43:08 GMT
Article-I.D.: news.1992Aug28.174308.19115
Organization: Iowa State University, Ames, IA


The sequel to Dawn is Adulthood Rites, and the comes Imago(sp?).
From: ddb@tdkt.kksys.com (David Dyer-Bennet)
Sender: FredGate@tdkt.kksys.com
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
Subject: Bland Prejudice (was Re: Wolvertons "on My Way To Paradise)
Date: Thu, 27 Aug 1992 11:38:15 -0600

 CY> Come on, now, be reasonable.  "Share space?"  Okay, Bridge
 CY> Publications are scum.  But are they that much worse than
 CY> your average publishing company?

As a publisher, don't know.  I only know people with stories in their
WOTF anthologies, which appear to be handled at professional
standards.  However, if they make a profit off of you that money is
being funneled into the scientology organization.  I think it's
perfectly reasonable to say "no".  

 CY> Have you checked the Wall Street records
 CY> to see if Bantam is secretly controlled by a cabal of Satanists?

No, just Germans.

 CY> Scientology scares me.  It scares any reasonable person.
 CY> But burying your head in the sand is no answer at all.

And refusing to deal with them because they are scientologists
constitutes burying your head in the sand?  What's wrong with this
picture? 

 * Origin: Taste happens (1:282/341.0)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
From: levine@symcom.math.uiuc.edu (Lenore Levine)
Subject: Re: A Really Good SF Short Story
Organization: University of Illinois at Urbana
Date: Wed, 26 Aug 1992 17:45:15 GMT

dani@netcom.com (Dani Zweig) writes:

>levine@symcom.math.uiuc.edu (Lenore Levine):
>>Pamela Sargent wrote a story, "Danny Goes to Mars," in the latest issue
>>of IASFM, that, if there's any justice in this world, should get a 
>>Hugo. Or a Nebula. Or at least three or four of them each.
>>It uses the powerful theme of a very limited person who...

>If my inference from the hints you're dropping is correct, you're
>asking people to award Hugos for Dan Quayle jokes.  (I haven't read
>the story, so it seems pointless to put up spoiler warnings.)  Will
>this still be worth reading ten years from now?

>-----
>Dani Zweig
>dani@netcom.com

Yes, I think so.

Lenore Levine
levine@symcom.math.uiuc.edu
From: eliz@ai.mit.edu (Elizabeth Willey)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
Subject: Re: Terminology
Date: 4 Sep 92 03:25:53 GMT
Organization: MIT Artificial Intelligence Laboratory

In article <BtwI74.2L4@brunel.ac.uk> Robert.Turner@brunel.ac.uk (Robert Turner) writes:

   Right then, a question for all you 'cyberpunk' (and similar) fans out
   there. We have:

   Hardware	Machinery
   Software	Programs
   Wetware		Biological Software

   [...]

"Wetware" is not biological software.  Wetware refers to the neurons,
axons, brain cells, nerve tissue, and other gooey bits used to process
signals in an organism.  In other words, your brain is wetware.  What
you do with it is your problem.

The term has been around since well before cyberpunk.

Several authors use this term incorrectly.  Several use it correctly.
The ones who use it correctly produce better reading matter because
they have done their homework.


Elizabeth Willey
[Center for Biological Information Processing,
Department of Brain and Cognitive Sciences, MIT]
From: ndj20710@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (Nathan D. Johnson)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
Subject: Re: Continuing Time
Date: 30 Aug 92 05:52:48 GMT
Organization: University of Illinois at Urbana

rod@cats.ucsc.edu (Rodrick Su) writes:

 <deleted:I asked, where was Trent?>


>	He heads straight for a locker room to get a scale suit.

I think That I have some trouble with the timing on that. I don't think either
of us is going to convince the other, though. Especially since I have no copy
on hand to use for evidence, or to correct my memory.
Nate