From: robert@isgtec.com (Robert Osborne)
Newsgroups: talk.politics.guns
Subject: Re: Premeditated Murder - Part 2
Date: 20 Aug 92 13:15:26 GMT

bressler@iftccu.boeing.com (Rick Bressler) writes:
> It was pretty obvious to me that a bunch of people who have never been
> in any sort of life and death situation, even a simulated one, were
> playing arm chair judge jury and executioner.  I simply wanted to give
> my impression of a 'real life' perspective on the way things happen in
> the real world.

Your 'real life' perspective is wrong.  There are lots of people who
handle danger and stress calmly and cooly.  These are the people
who should be on SWAT teams.   Police officers who can not handle
danger calmly and cooly should not be police officers.

> Go play some paintball or something.  (And no, my views on this don't
> come from paintball games, this is just an example) The next time you
> see that red paint dripping off your partner, (oops!) remember what that
> would mean in real life.

I've played paintball for 3 years and have yet to shoot a member of
my own team.  In fact I've yet to AIM at member of my own team.

I've hunted for 18 years.  I've yet to shoot another hunter.  I've
yet to even aim at another hunter.  I've yet to have another hunter
even cause me to put my finger on the trigger or take off the safety.
I've hunted with a gang of 15 and alone.

If SWAT teams can not find people who handle stress well and who
understand the basic rules of firearms safety then maybe there
should not be SWAT teams.

> >If this was the case, then I contest that his superiors screwed up; the man
> >was not trained to be a SWAT member.  He violated Jeff Cooper's rule #1:
> >do NOT put your finger inside the trigger guard UNTIL the sights are on the
> >target... and a SWAT member should KNOW what his target is BEFORE he puts
> >his finger inside the trigger guard.
> 
> Right.  And Cooper is also the one who will tell you how GOOD it feels
> to kill a man.  How your beer will taste colder, etc...

I'm not sure who Jeff Cooper is but this rule was taught to me by
my father when I was 6.  It was also taught in the Hunter Safety
course I took when I was old enough to hunt (legally :-).

> Also, I have no doubt that Jeff could put you in a situation where you
> would inadvertently shoot your OWN mother.  You can't learn it all from
> a book...  It's easy to judge from your terminal.  Besides, it is quite
> possible that his finger WAS outside the trigger guard.  We will
> probably never know.

Well if it was outside the trigger guard it was no longer reflex and
had to be deliberate.

> >Actually, he did.  OK, folks, count up all the basic firearm handling
> >rules he disobeyed...  The most basic is pointing his weapon a someone
> >he didn't intend to shoot...  Or did he intend to shoot?
> 
> Yeah, something as simple as typing an h as in Rich instead of Rick.
> That's about the amount of physical force needed to pull a trigger....

The gun shouldn't have been pointed at anybody.
If his gun was already pointed at the woman he is criminally negligent
for poor firearms procedure.

If his reflexs are such that he can point a gun at an unarmed woman AND
pull the trigger before his reflexs say 'NO' he shouldn't be a member
of a SWAT team.

> >He didn't do anything wrong!!??  What he did was to shoot and kill an
> >innocent person, after breaking into her home.  Is this wrong?  Hell yes!!
> 
> He reacted to somebody lunging towards children in the dark when he had
> every reason to believe that this person could be intending the children
> harm.

BULLSHIT!  If I was invading the home of an potentially dangerous
bankrobber I wouldn't assume that his WIFE's first instinct to my
illegal assault would be to kill her children.  Is Tony really that 
stupid?

> Add to the fact he was probably still picking the glass from the
> glass door he had just crashed through out of his face.

Why did a trained SWAT team member crash through a glass door?
This is stupid.

> He had less than 1 second to make the decision.  What would you do?

I'm not sure; I don't think it would be "Shoot anything that moves!".

Rob.
--
Robert A. Osborne   ...!uunet.ca!isgtec!robert or robert@isgtec.com
Newsgroups: talk.politics.guns