HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: mtvahb@rivm.nl (Aldrik Bakema)
Subject: Re: W.S.I.K.F.
Organization: Rijksinstituut voor Volksgezondheid en Milieuhygiene,Bilthoven,NL
X-Newsreader: Tin 1.1 PL4
Date: Tue, 18 Aug 1992 07:49:02 GMT

 Dave Walker asks:
: 
:   The Washington State International Kite Festival starts this week,
:  anyone planning on attending? This will the 5th year we have gone..great
:  event, I believe it one of the biggest in the country.
: 
I would be interested to know the location. Not for myself but for some
friends living in Seattle. Can anyone give some details pls?

Thanks,
Aldrik Bakema
mtvahb@rivm.nl

Newsgroups: rec.kites
From: pault@ossi.com (Paul Taylor)
Subject: Re: Big Damn Kites
Organization: Fujitsu America, Inc.
Date: Fri, 14 Aug 1992 00:55:36 GMT

In article <65872@hydra.gatech.EDU> sc5@prism.gatech.EDU (CSEPLO,STEPHEN P) writes:
>In article <10158@baird.cs.strath.ac.uk> pat@cs.strath.ac.uk (Pat Prosser) writes:
>>to do Teddy Jumps, and occasionaly we lift children. 
>                        ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>>
>>Patrick
>
>Speaking from the position a responsible kitist, this DOES NOT seem
>to be a good idea! Any type of lifting of objects or people is best 
>left to experienced, qualified kite fliers and to use a child as an
>object to be lifted by what is at best a marginal method is very
>IRRESPONSIBLE! Not only can extensive injury occur should things go
>wrong, witness Dean Jordan, but in doing such an activity with a
>spectator/volunteer, you open yourself up to all types of liability
>and litigation.
>
>Think it over.
>
>
>-- 
>
>The Mad Hata  
>
>"Hey, Mon....Tako Kichi!"

The best lift I saw was in Seattle, that was both safe and
cosmetically pleasing. It also had disasterous results....

The family teddy bear was fitted with a parachute and strapped onto
the line of a large delta. The line had a runner that allowed the bear
to slide up the wire. When said bear reached the top, the release line
was pulled. the parachute opened and the bear floated to the
ground.

This drew quite a crowd.. With applause each time there was a sucessful
touch down.

And now the sad part (so prepare a large tissue). The afternoon breeze got up
and the bear was engulfed by a large kite eating tree monster. I believe
that too this day, in a tree outside the botanical gardens you can
see a bear in a tree.....

SO - moral of the story is... Unless you are prepared to loose it,
don't fly it !!!

	Paul Taylor

Newsgroups: rec.kites
From: salanne@convex.csc.FI (Simo Salanne)
Subject: World Cup Results?
Organisation: STACK Finland
Organization: Finnish Academic and Research Network Project - FUNET
Date: Mon, 17 Aug 92 13:30:54 GMT


1992 World Cup Sport Kites Championships, was held
last Saturday in Odawara, Japan. Anybody having the
results available? Please post to rec.kites!

Smooth Winds
Simo Salanne
STACK, Finland
Newsgroups: rec.kites
From: sasaki@sasaki.zko.dec.com (Marty Sasaki)
Subject: Re: Kite Flying Areas
Reply-To: sasaki@tle.enet.dec.com
Organization: Digital Equipment Co.
Distribution: ma
Date: Fri, 14 Aug 1992 16:27:15 GMT


In article <3706@cvbnetPrime.COM>, jmmorse@feds54.prime.com (Jeff Morse x4858) writes:
|>I live northeast of Boston and am looking for some good places to fly kites.
|>
|>I would appreciate any information available about areas in and around Boston,
|>but mostly on the North shore and the Cape.

It might be nice to occasionally post information about flying sites
from around the world so that visitors can bring kites and know where
to fly. It is in this spirit that I make this posting...

During the late Fall, Winter, and early Spring, North Shore beaches
are great places to fly. In the evening and during the weekday the
beaches may or may not be nice places to fly, it depends on the
weather and how many people are out on the beach.

I've been flying at Nahant Beach. As long as their aren't sun-bathers
out, it is a wonderful place to fly.

You can usually find someone flying on top of "Bose Mountain" in
Framingham Industrial Park, near the intersection of the Mass Pike and
Rt. 9.

Another frequented flying place is a field just south of Rt. 128 in
Wakefield. Get off at the North Avenue, south exit, and make your
first left.

In the morning and afternoon and sometimes into the evening, Danehy
park in Cambridge can be a nice place to fly. It depends on which way
the wind is blowing and if there are softball and/or soccer games
going on.
--
Marty Sasaki                            sasaki@tle.enet.dec.com
Digital Equipment Co.                   Sasaki Kite Fabrications
110 Spit Brook Road ZK02-3/N30          26 Green Street
Nashua, NH 03062                        Jamaica Plain, MA 02130
603-881-0151                            617-522-8546

Newsgroups: rec.kites
From: gaffer@ibmpcug.co.uk (Andrew Beattie)
Subject: Re: Benson Phantom
Organization: The IBM PC User Group, UK.
Date: Mon, 17 Aug 1992 07:09:26 GMT

In article <86300@netnews.upenn.edu> tfarring@eniac.seas.upenn.edu (Mr. A. Pemberton Trammel Snipe-Treadwater IV) writes:
>
>My friend is interested in the Benson Phantom but we have called ~20 or so 
>shops and only Air Circus and Meadow Mouse Kites have it.

Hmm.. you do know that the "Benson" kites are no longer made, don't you?

Tim Benson's company is now called Fizz.  You might do better to ask for
a Fizz Phantom.

While you are at it, ask about his other kites, like the swallowtail (I don't
know  how it flies, but it sure does look pretty).

Andrew
From: tfarring@eniac.seas.upenn.edu (Mr. A. Pemberton Trammel Snipe-Treadwater IV)
Newsgroups: rec.kites
Subject: Alternate Frames on Hawaiians
Date: 16 Aug 92 19:58:33 GMT
Organization: University of Pennsylvania


	I'm looking at a Hawaiian, mainly for the pull, but it would be nice if
I could get one that could fly reasonably low winds (3-5 mph) as well as high 
winds. Anyone have a Hawaiian with a frame other than the stock fiberglass one?
What about the Easton A/C and the graphite frames? How do these fly?

			Thanks,
			Tim
--
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
* Tim Farrington		' 	DAVE	     			  *
* tfarring@eniac.seas.upenn.edu ' 	FOR	Just say No to .sigs!     *
* Me? Speak for Penn? HAHAHAHA  '   PRESIDENT				  *
Newsgroups: rec.kites
From: sasaki@sasaki.zko.dec.com (Marty Sasaki)
Subject: Re: Big Brother / Little Sister
Reply-To: sasaki@tle.enet.dec.com
Organization: Digital Equipment Co.
Date: Wed, 19 Aug 1992 15:31:22 GMT


In article <1992Aug19.135239.10482@msuinfo.cl.msu.edu>, burk_k@paun01.pa.msu.edu (Ken Burk (winsauer)) writes:
|>  This is mainly directed to our Canadian friends.  In America the Big Brother
|>is a very expensive kite due to a high tarrif and a single distributor.  I've
|>heard that this kite from France is less expensive in Canada but have not
|>found a kite store that carries this kite or its 3/4 compliment the Little Sister

This isn't an answer to the question, but just pointing out a fact.
The Little Sister is not a 3/4 Big Brother. The shape of the sail is
different and the Little Sister has a slightly smaller wingspan, I
think it's around 6 inches narrower than the Big Brother. Bridle
lengths are different.

They also fly differently. The LS spins like crazy and has a low end
of around 6 mph, while the BB is smoother, has less oversteer, and has
a low end of around 3 mph.
--
Marty Sasaki                            sasaki@tle.enet.dec.com
Digital Equipment Co.                   Sasaki Kite Fabrications
110 Spit Brook Road ZK02-3/N30          26 Green Street
Nashua, NH 03062                        Jamaica Plain, MA 02130
603-881-0151                            617-522-8546

Newsgroups: rec.kites
From: mtvahb@rivm.nl (Aldrik Bakema)
Subject: Re: Stuntvliegers Bouwen en Besturn
Organization: Rijksinstituut voor Volksgezondheid en Milieuhygiene,Bilthoven,NL
X-Newsreader: Tin 1.1 PL4
Date: Mon, 17 Aug 1992 09:30:03 GMT

brian@nds.com (Brian Dockter) writes:
: 
: I was recently told by one of the local kite shop owners that the book
: "Stuntvliegers Bouwen en Besturen (Stunt Kites to Make and Fly)" by
: Servaas Vander Horst and Nop Velthuizen has been translated to English.
: He expects it within a few weeks.
: 
: Would one of our Dutch speaking friends out there be willing to post
: an opinion of the original?
: 
Well, I have used this book for building my first two kites:
the Spoetnik II (a kind of flexifoil, but without any spars)
and the cicade, a large delta-shaped stunt kite. I think the book
is great, gives you a lot of information, and some very nice designs,
including detailed descriptions of how to cut and sow the thing
together. Definitely a very nice book, IMHO.
As another poster has said, the Spoetnik II is meant to fly in a storm,
and it does nicely, but you really do need a storm, otherwise it 's a
very slow kite. The Cicade on the other hand is definitely a great kite
to build yourself: its design is relatively simple, it flies already in
very low winds and keeps flying nicely in strong winds as well. Very
controllable. I love it.

Aldrik Bakema
mtvahb@rivm.nl
Newsgroups: rec.kites
From: ead@cbnewsd.cb.att.com (eric.duesing)
Subject: Peel
Organization: AT&T
Date: Thu, 20 Aug 1992 15:40:32 GMT
Keywords: Distributer


Is there a US or North American distributer of the Peel?  Are 
the flight characteristics similar to the Flexifoil?  What are
the differences?



			Eric A. Duesing
			AT&T Bell Labs
			
They may call Chicago the windy city, but there ain't nearly enough
wind for a powerkiter!   :-)
From: tfarring@eniac.seas.upenn.edu (Mr. A. Pemberton Trammel Snipe-Treadwater IV)
Newsgroups: rec.kites
Subject: Benson Phantom
Date: 16 Aug 92 19:23:32 GMT
Organization: What?


My friend is interested in the Benson Phantom but we have called ~20 or so 
shops and only Air Circus and Meadow Mouse Kites have it.  Is there any other
place that has it and what is the best price you have found (Meadow Mouse will
beat any price)?

	Thanx muchly.
Tim


--
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
* Tim Farrington		' 	DAVE	     			  *
* tfarring@eniac.seas.upenn.edu ' 	FOR	Just say No to .sigs!     *
* Me? Speak for Penn? HAHAHAHA  '   PRESIDENT				  *
Newsgroups: rec.kites
From: mds8539@tamuts.tamu.edu (Michael David Slater         )
Subject: Big Damn Kites  
Organization: ~/lib/organization
Date: Wed, 12 Aug 1992 14:53:54 GMT

I didn't bother to read all of them, but a scan of the messages around
here showed that most of the discussion was on store-bought stunt
kites.  Has anyone built any heavy lift kites, of the style of Cody?
Our first 8x8x8 Military Lift Kite was a marvelous construction, but
since we had never flown anything before had adjusted the bridle
miserably, resulting in its demise.  Later models, with a better
bridle flew like the Thyrocees fleeing the gates Gretan. 


As well, has anyone ever tried to build miniature hot air balloons.
Acquaitances and I have always debated the possibility.

michael, son of David.
From: jeffy@syrinx.umd.edu (Jeffrey C. Burka)
Newsgroups: rec.kites
Subject: Re: Kite making
Date: 13 Aug 92 20:20:15 GMT
Organization: University of Maryland at College Park

In article <1992Aug13.174306.23381@introl.introl.com> pete@introl.introl.com (Pete Ikusz) writes:
>In article <14922@umd5.umd.edu> jeffy@syrinx.umd.edu (Jeffrey C. Burka) writes:
>>
>>In terms of materials, get a catalog from High Fly Kite Co. at 
>>30 West End Avenue, Haddonfield, NJ  08033 or Hang 'em High Fabrics at 1420
>>Yale Avenue, Richmond, VA  23224.
>
>You wouldn't have ph#'s for either of these Co's? would, you?
>Or is there another recommended store?

Hang 'em High is (804)-233-6155 (M-F)

High Fly is (609)-429-6260

>>There are books out there that have plans for stunt kites, but it seems
>>like most of the good ones aren't in English.  If you speak German, this
>>may not be a problem.  In fact, once you know what you're doing, you
>>could probably use the plans in a foreign language book...  
>
>Ok, some of us do know German but haven't heard of these books.
>Do you know where we could find them, or names of them, etc?

The KiteLines Bookstore (mail order) carries a lot of good books.  Ones
that have been talked about here are Schimmelpfennig's "Lenkdrachen Bauen
und Fliegen" and I believe "Stuntvliegers Bouwen en Besturen" by
Servaas van der Horst and Nop Velthuizen (in Dutch, not German).

You can get in touch with KiteLines at PO Box 466, Randallstown, MD  21133-
0466.  They can be called at (410)-922-1212, 10am-10pm, and can take
Visa and MC.

Jeff
-- 
|Jeffrey C. Burka                | "Show what you are / Be strong, be true  |
|                                |  Time for you to / Be who you are."      |
|jeffy@syrinx.umd.edu            |                         --Happy Rhodes   |
Newsgroups: rec.kites
From: brian@nds.com (Brian Dockter)
Subject: Stuntvliegers Bouwen en Besturn
Reply-To: brian@nds.COM (Brian Dockter)
Organization: Northwest Digital Systems
Date: Thu, 13 Aug 92 20:38:19 GMT

First off, my apologies to any one that can read Dutch if messed up the
subject line.

Now to the real news.

I was recently told by one of the local kite shop owners that the book
"Stuntvliegers Bouwen en Besturen (Stunt Kites to Make and Fly)" by
Servaas Vander Horst and Nop Velthuizen has been translated to English.
He expects it within a few weeks.

Would one of our Dutch speaking friends out there be willing to post
an opinion of the original?

Thanks,

Brian
-- 
Brian Dockter                    | Northwest Digital Systems
UUCP: uunet!nds!brian            | Voice: 206-524-0014
Internet: brian@nds.com          | FAX: 206-524-0018
From: jmmorse@feds54.prime.com (Jeff Morse x4858)
Newsgroups: rec.kites
Subject: Kite Making Info Wanted
Date: 13 Aug 92 22:03:27 GMT
Reply-To: jmmorse@feds54.prime.com (Jeff Morse x4858)
Distribution: usa
Organization: Prime Computervision, Bedford MA

I am a beginner stunter who owns a pair of Trlbys.  I really enjoy flying them 
but I would like to progress to an intermediate stunt kite that is lighter, 
quicker and doesn't have a tail that needs to be rolled up.  Unfortunately, 
the price tags of most of the deltas I`ve been looking at are a little too 
large for my budget.

Therefore, I've decided to try and make my own stunter.  Now that all my
home repair/improvement projects have been completed (for this summer), I will
have plenty of time on my hands to experiment with a sewing machine and some 
sail cloth.

Towards this end, I have a few questions I hope someone can answer for me:

1) Is it difficult to find material and parts?
2) Do I need special thread or a heavy-duty sewing machine?
3) What are the best books & magazines for tips, techniques and patterns?

I would appreciate any information available from the vast numbers of
kite-makers out there.

Thanks.

Jeffrey Morse
Newsgroups: rec.kites
From: salanne@convex.csc.FI (Simo Salanne)
Subject: Jaco connector - GREAT
Keywords: stunt kite
Organization: Finnish Academic and Research Network Project - FUNET
Date: Wed, 12 Aug 92 20:59:54 GMT

I got my samples of leading edge/spreader connector by
Jaco design & engineering. 

They are not cheap (about 2 USD) but they are neat!
If you have Drachen Magazin  2/92 look at page 39. 
If you don't have DraMa, buy it or call to Jaco in 
Switzerland...

	071-674641
fax
	071-671434

Smooth Winds

Simo Salanne
STACK, Finland
From: burk_k@paun01.pa.msu.edu (Ken Burk (winsauer))
Newsgroups: rec.kites
Subject: Big Brother / Little Sister
Date: 19 Aug 92 13:52:39 GMT
Reply-To: burk_k@paun01.pa.msu.edu (Ken Burk (winsauer))
Organization: Michigan State University


  This is mainly directed to our Canadian friends.  In America the Big Brother
is a very expensive kite due to a high tarrif and a single distributor.  I've
heard that this kite from France is less expensive in Canada but have not found a kite store that carries this kite or its 3/4 compliment the Little Sister


Ken Burk
From: jeffy@syrinx.umd.edu (Jeffrey C. Burka)
Newsgroups: rec.kites
Subject: TotL Snap
Date: 20 Aug 92 22:35:19 GMT
Organization: University of Maryland at College Park


I finally got a chance to fly Top of the Line's latest entry, the Snap.


The Snap is a 1/2-scale Spin-Off.  Two panel (I'm not sure why, but all
the kites I've seen have been single color; since they're sewing two
panels together anyway, I'm not sure why they're not mixing and matching)
3/4 oz sail with a dacron leading edge.  The frame is hollow fiberglass.
The kite is fitted with stand-offs.  In addition, it is packaged with
handles loaded with ~60' of around 100# dacron (that's a complete guess on 
the test; I just know it's heavier than the 80# dacron I use as trainlines
on my mini-revs) and a vinyl case. Retail price is $50.

I was very skeptical about the Snap.  TotL claims the bottom range is
around 5 mph (which is the bottom end for a full-size Spin-Off!).  But the
kite does in fact perform in those low winds!  I'd recommend using
lighter line (I was flying today on 40' 80# spectra.  It would have been
great on about 50' of 25#.)  In higher winds, I suspect that the flyer
would _want_ the weight and drag of the included dacron just to slow
the kite down to visibility.

As for actualy flying charcteristics, the Snap is quite good.  With very little
oversteer (oversteer is fairly common in little kites) the Snap is capable
of quite reasonable precision.  It skates nicely, and turns quickly.  As
one would expect, it's quite fast.  Makes a nice little buzz, too.

I flew the kite in winds ranging from about 5-9 mph.  I'm sure it would
be even more fun in steady 10-15 mph, but I enjoyed myself nonetheless.

Construction is typically solid TotL.  In other words, it's built like a 
brick.  A nice, long-lasting brick.

I imagine the Snap will also prove to be worthy of flying big stacks.  

All in all, quite a bargain for $50.  It flies like a real kite, and
in reasonable amounts of wind (unlike some of the other kites in the
Snap's price range--the Peter Powell Skychaser (a great kite but only
when the wind is up around 20-25) and Premier's various low-end Super
Sports).

Jeff


-- 
|Jeffrey C. Burka                | "Show what you are / Be strong, be true  |
|                                |  Time for you to / Be who you are."      |
|jeffy@syrinx.umd.edu            |                         --Happy Rhodes   |
Newsgroups: rec.kites
From: e_splett@trofs.enet.dec.com (Evan Splett)
Subject: Re: Stuntvliegers Bouwen en Besturn
Organisation: Digital Equipment of Canada - Ottawa
Organization: Digital Equipment Corp.
Date: Fri, 14 Aug 1992 15:44:22 GMT


In article <1992Aug13.203819.1640@nds.com>, brian@nds.com (Brian Dockter) writes...
>Would one of our Dutch speaking friends out there be willing to post
>an opinion of the original?

Can you find out the publisher and ISBN of the English version ?
Here is a copy of an earlier posting:

------------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: joost@paramount.nikhefk.nikhef.nl (Joost Wesseling)
>
>"Stuntvliegers, Bouwen en Besturen"
>by Servaas van der Horst & Nop Velthuizen
>
The book mentioned above was published in Holland in may 1991 and is, as far
as I know, not available in english. It starts of with an extensive overview
of materials to use for building kites, discusses techniques like sewing etc.
It furthermore discusses flying stuntkites. The "build it yourself" section
contains detailed plans of 9 types of stunt kites:

	1) Shuttle, a diamond type of kite, quite like an Ace or Acroracer,
	   easy to build and fly,
	2) Speedwing, the well-known german stunter,
	3) Teamlight, an ultralight Hawaiian,
	4) Spin-off, well known,
	5) Kwat, a peculiar design that consists of two adjacent diamonds.
	   It is flown with four lines, cheap and easy to build,
	6) Cicade/Gizmo, they resemble the Phantom, VERY fast and accurate.
	   The Cicade is somewhat larger than the Gizmo. I have build a Gizmo
	   and it is one of the best stunters that I know,
	7) Speedfoil, a very fast cousin of the Flexifoil,
	8) Spoetnik I and II, two parafoil-type models, I is used when you
	   kneed a lot of "pull" while II will fly without many problems in a
	   storm (I tried one in windforce 7),
	9) Dykehopper, a Dutch design which seems to be know as "the beast"
	   because it is very hard to build, harder to tune properly and
	   even harder to fly. Given its reputation I never tried building
	   one.

Many people in Holland use this book, together with the german book by
Schimmelpfennig, as guideline when building their own kites. I have never
spoken to anyone who was disappointed. 
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: daveb@pogo.wv.tek.com (Dave Butler)
Newsgroups: rec.kites
Subject: Re: Phantom vs Phantom Shadow (was: Kite Lines Survey!?!?!)
Date: 12 Aug 92 16:42:12 GMT
Organization: Tektronix, Inc., Wilsonville,  OR.

Jeff Burka says of Phantoms:

> I have heard _so_ many different explanations of the different Phantoms
> and none of them are consistent.  

Well, it would seem that Highfligher has been modifying their materials as
Jeff and I definitely have different manuals for our Phantoms (mine is about a
year old).  My Highflyer Phantom manual states that there are four models:

	Phantom Standard and Custom
	3 - 25 mph
	
	Phantom Shadow
	2 - 20 mph

	Phantom Pro
	2 - 20 mph

Please note the dramatically different wind ratings.  I went back to the kite
shop that sold it to me (ie: "Paint the Sky" in Portland), and checked again;
they have sold 3 specific types of Phantom at three different prices.  The
Standard has 2200 rod and 6 panels (which, as it turns out, is what I
originally bought).  The Custom has the same amount of Panels as the Shadow
and has 2200 rod.  The Shadow has beaman rod.  The kite shop isn't sure what
the heck a Pro is or what makes it different (BTW, they seem to be selling out
of their Highflyers to be able to switch over to Tim Benson Phantoms). 

I also called "Catch the Wind" but they are presently out of stock on their
Highflyer Phantoms and are in the process of switching over to the Tim Benson
Phantom.  This means they no longer have info available to answer questions on
the Highflyer Phantom.  

I don't know why the east coast is mostly beaman rod, but Phantoms with stock
2200 rod are reasonably common out here in the west.

Of course since everyone seems to be switching over to the Tim Benson Phantom
the debate is probably going to become moot.

				Later,

				Dave Butler

    Science, freedom, beauty, adventure: What more could you ask of life? 
    Aviation combined all the elements I loved...  I began to feel that I 
    lived on a higher plane than the skeptics of the ground; one that was 
    richer because of its very association with the elements of danger they 
    dreaded, because it was freer of the earth to which they were bound.  In 
    flying I tasted the wine of the gods of which they could know nothing... 
				Charles A. Lindbergh Jr.
Newsgroups: rec.kites
From: richard_chase.svmb@air25.larc.nasa.gov ( Chase)
Subject: Re: Big Damn Kites
Reply-To: richard_chase.svmb@air25.larc.nasa.gov ( Chase)
Organization: LaRC NASA
Date: Wed, 12 Aug 1992 15:47:52 GMT

In response to has anyone built a miniature hot air ballon.  I know I did, 
and there is also a man in Richmond, Va that I ran into last year who had one 
displayed in his business that he had built. 

My hot air ballon had a envelope that was 7 feet in diameter and used store 
bought propane tanks with a remote controlled burner.  After I built it, I 
was told that I couldn't fly it without a line attached because it was 
considered a flying firehazard.  Since if it ever got outside of the range of 
the remote control could land anywhere and could be possibly at full burner.  
I think it still is in my garage.  I then when and built a remote control 
ultralight so it would fly slower than RC aircraft.


Newsgroups: rec.kites