HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: erudnick@pica.army.mil (FSAC-SID)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: Differance between .40 and 10mm
Date: 26 Aug 92 02:14:21 GMT


Roman Olynyk writes:
#Like the .38 Special and the .357 Magnum, you can fire a .40 S&W in a 10mm
#pistol, but not vive versa.


Bit of a difference here. The two revolver cartridges headspace on the
rim, so the only difficulty in firing .38s in a .357 is crapping up that
1/10 or 1/8 inch (forget which) of unused .357 chamber.

To fire .40 in a 10mm, you are counting on the extractor (and possibly
chamber friction) holding the cartridge against the bolt face long enough
for the firing pin to function the primer. When Ed Sanow recommended
this in the pages of Petersen's Handguns, very shortly thereafter a
letter from Olin appeared _strongly_ advising against the practice.

This was how the Astra 400 in 9mm Largo (9x23) was supposed to fire the 
9mmx19. I have a 400, but have decided against trying that.



Ed Rudnicki     erudnick@pica.army.mil     All disclaimers apply
Protect the Second Amendment - boycott Ruger products
"That's not true," Bill hissed to his lawyer. "The facts are-"
"Don't worry about facts, Bill, no one else here does. Facts can't
alter this case."       -"Bill the Galactic Hero" Harry Harrison
From: PATE@VXC.UNCWIL.EDU (BILL PATE, ADMIN. SERVICES, PATE@VXC.UNCWIL.EDU)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: stupid shooter tricks
Date: 31 Aug 92 22:02:23 GMT

Reading the account of stupid shooter tricks by skeet shooters, I 
realized that they might have different safety rules that the rest of
us. We had a championship class skeet shooter in our gun club once. 
He came down to the indoor range to experience small-bore shooting.
After each round he passed the barrel of the still-loaded rifle across
the crowd, as he checked with his spotter for his progress. He also had
the nasty habit of resting the muzzel on the toe of his shoe and leaning
on the butt plate. I have noticed, however, that some shooting suppliers
sell leather toe pads for skeet shooters to save scuffing their shoes, so
I guess that must be acceptable.
By the way, he got mad and left when someone brought up his un-safe
gun handling.

[MODERATOR: At that point, it doesn't much matter whether he goes away
mad, just so he goes away .....]

Xref: sparky rec.guns:12473 rec.hunting:1464
From: brian@pdx.csd.mot.com (Brian Vandewettering)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: bullet casting residue
Date: 3 Sep 92 22:02:09 GMT
Organization: Motorola CSD, Beaverton, OR



I'm a lurker who may get into casting out of necessity, since I can't 
seem to find a commercial caster who offers a suitable bullet for my
32-20.  I need a 115 grainer sized to .314 inches.  All those I've found 
are 100 grains or less and sized to .312 inches.

Does anyone have thoughts on the following questions?

1. Furnace - Bottom pour or scooper?  Is the cheapie from Lee Precision
   any good?

2. Lube sizers - Is there any difference between the brands?  What about
   the lube heaters that I've seen advertized in Midway's catalog?  Looks
   like a hot plate which you bolt your lube sizer to.  Will the Lee sizer
   and liquid allox work with conventional style bullets or do they only 
   work with their micro-groove design.

3. Moulds - nose pour?  Who's are best?  Aluminum or Iron?

4. Gas Checks - How much of a pain are they?  Are they crimped on while
   lube sizing?  or after.  What good would a .312" gas check do on a 
   .314" bullet?

5. Output - Let's say you have a 2 cavity mould.  How many good quality
   bullets would you produce in an hour?  I realize that sizing is a 
   seperate operation AFTER THE BULLETS COOL.

6. Ventilation - Would a fan placed in a window next to the casting
   pot provide enough ventilation?


Perhaps we should incorporate the answers into the elusive r.g FAQ.


-- 
"It cannot be presumed that any clause in the Constitution is intended to
be without effect..."

- Chief Justice John Marshall, Marbury v. Madison, 1803
From: Robert.Allen@Eng.Sun.COM (rja@sun.com)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: Why a sawed-off shotgun?
Date: 28 Aug 92 22:38:16 GMT

barry@uts.amdahl.com (Barry Needham) writes:

#>vanetten@unix.cie.rpi.edu (John S. Van Etten) writes:
#>
#>#Clayton Cramer writes about short-barreled shotguns:
#>
#>##  Such
#>##shotguns were used in trench warfare by U.S. soldiers, much to the
#>##consternation of the Germans.
#>
#>#I've seen this at least half a dozen times both in t.p.g and here.
#>#And I've e-mailed a couple of people about this and both ignored me.
#>#So I'm going to throw it out to rec.guns in general and ask if
#>#*anybody* has a reference to short-barreled shotguns used in the
#>#military.  The trench guns of WWI and WWII (including Win M97 and M12,
#>#Stevens M520 and M620, etc., etc.) all had 20-in. barrels, which is a
#>#full 2 inches over the limit.  Even the current issue Mossberg M590
#>#has a 20-in. cylinder tube with 2-3/4" chamber, as per the original
#>#spec.  The military has *never* used a "trench gun" with a short
#>#barrel, at least not by that name.  Is there something I've missed?  I
#>#think a few people seem confused about the US vs. Miller decision,
#>#unless I am. :-)
#>
#>The USNC issued 870s with a folding stock and 14 inch barrel in Vietnam.
#>

    In WWII short barrelled Model 1100 semi-autos were also
    issued.  Surplus models came up for sale about 10 years ago.
    However, these were 18-20" b

    US Marines on embassy duty are also armed with folding stock,
    or pistol gripped, shotguns.  When the Iranians raided our
    embassy years ago, photos of pistol gripped 870s or some similar
    looking 12 guage where shown, and I've seen other photos of
    racks of folding stocked 870's in Central American embassies.

    Finally, I'm sure that US special forces have all kinds of
    strange weapons, including short barrelled shotguns.
From: minh@inst-sun1.jpl.nasa.gov (Minh Lang)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Shooting video trade???
Date: 1 Sep 92 13:16:29 GMT
Organization: Jet Propulsion Laboratory

I just bought a 1991 Steel Challenge competition video that I'm done with
it.
(The 1992 video is not out yet). I would like to trade with 
someone for other video such as the Bianchi cup, IPSC etc...
Thanks.

+------------------------------------------------------------+
 Minh Lang, Software Engineer  - Jet Propulsion Laboratory
 Instrumentation Systems Group - Instrumentation section 375
 Note:  My employer has nothing to do with what I said here...
+------------------------------------------------------------+
From: towle@vssteg.enet.dec.com (Clark Towle Gunsmith)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: Pistol Jamming
Date: 26 Aug 92 13:30:35 GMT
Organization: Digital Equipment Corporation


In article <1992Aug24.172619.9931@almserv.uucp>, sun330!brath@uunet.UU.NET (Mario N. Brathwaite) writes...
#I was out at the range this weekend firing several weapons including
#a S&W 5906. I loaded the magazine and attempt to fire... nothing happened
#(yes the safety was off).Looking at the gun, I noticed that the hammer 
#had stopped half way down. I removed the magazine, reinserted it and it 
#fired that round and then jammed again. This happened roughly four times 
#before I said "forget it!"
# 
#Has anyone out there seen this happen before with the 5906 or any semi-auto
#for that matter?

 Sounds like you have a sear engagement problem and/or a trigger linkage 
problem that is not providing enough sear to hammer hook clearance. This 
will cause the sear to catch on the half cock notch.

 Take it to a good gunsmith or send it back to Smith for warranty repair.
From: r36110m@kaira.hut.fi (Mika Matti Jalava)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: What .22 cartridge?
Date: 31 Aug 92 12:56:46 GMT
Organization: Helsinki University of Technology, Finland

Does anybody know what kind of a .22 rimfire cartridge this is could
be? The brass case is about 17.5 mm long (normal .22 lr is about 15
mm), the bullet looks quite normal, plain lead (no copper plating).
There is a sign in the base that looks something like this:

--------- i -------
i     l   i
 i    l   i
  i   li  i -----
   i  li  i
    i li--i-----
     i i  i
      ii  i


So you can see a G or a V, L and F in it with some imagination. The
case diameter is the same as in .22 lr, but due to its greater length
it doesn't fit into a normal lr chamber (of course you could fire it
in a revolver).

The cartridge may be rather old. I have no idea of its origin, I got
it from a friend that doesn't know anything about it either.

Thanks for any information!

	Mika
From: btree!hale@UCSD.EDU (Bob Hale)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: Gun shows schedule wanted!!
Date: 28 Aug 92 01:20:50 GMT
Organization: Brooktree Corporation, San Diego

In article <9208261701.AA10443@elroy.Jpl.Nasa.Gov> minh@inst-sun1.jpl.nasa.gov (Minh Lang) writes:
#I would appreciate any info (Date/time) on upcoming GUN SHOWS around
#Los Angeles area. Thank you very much. 

The next show that I know of in the area is at the Costa Mesa county
fairgrounds on August 29-30.  I believe that the hours are 9-5 both
days but you should double check that.  Admission is probably $6.

The *really big* events are the Pomona gun shows held at the L.A.
county fairgrounds several times a year.  These usually have at
least 5000 tables.  You can spend both days there and still not
see everything.  I don't have the schedule for them handy but
I'll look it up and post later.  They tend to have the most shows
during times when the weather is reasonably cool, in the fall and winter.
There's always an early December show for those of us who are looking
for Christmas presents :-).

Bob Hale                                      ...!ucsd!btree!hale
...!btree!hale@ucsd.edu                       ...!ucsd!btree!hale@uunet.uu.net
From: cramer@optilink.com (Clayton Cramer)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: Travelling help
Date: 28 Aug 92 20:34:47 GMT
Organization: Optilink Corporation, Petaluma, CA


In article <2a4v03ud6euI00@amdahl.uts.amdahl.com>, barry@uts.amdahl.com (Barry Needham) writes:
# #In article <11883@optilink.UUCP> cramer@optilink.com (Clayton Cramer) writes:
# ##This is a new form of Kalifornia madness.  I don't know if anyone has
# ##been convicted or not, but the last time my wife went shooting at the
# ##indoor range in Cotati, CA, the rangemaster warned her that Cotati
# ##Police had taken to sitting outside the range, and stopping people
# ##coming out of, or into the range, and inspecting their handguns.
# ##They were using the "ridiculous interpretation" of the Kalifornia
# ##law to confiscate guns from people who had a loaded magazine in 
# ##the same bag as a gun.  No effect for my wife, she has a permit
# ##to carry, but it's pretty amazing to think that the Cotati PD has
# ##enough time and energy to engage in this sort of madness.
# 
# I have heard the same thing from several ranges, but I find it interesting
# that I have never observed this in person.  Nor do I know anybody who
# as observed it in person.  Now, I shoot a lot.  I'm active in USPSA/IPSC and
# various NRA competitions.  I hang out with people who shoot a lot and they
# have never observed it.  Is this an urban legend?

The rangemaster at the Cotati range said that this had happened THERE.

# I question this as an urban legend because California gun law has many
# specific exceptions when going to or from a range.  My reading of the law would
# seem to place loaded magazines when traveling to or from the range clearly in
# one of the exceptions.  Not that I would want to test it in court.
# 
# Clayton, you read more law than I.  Do you think that this is covered in the
# exceptions?
# 
# Barry Needham          barry@uts.amdahl.com          USA (408) 992-2527

I think it's covered in the exemptions, but I can see how a judge
might decide otherwise, if he was in a bad mood.


-- 
Clayton E. Cramer {uunet,pyramid}!optilink!cramer  My opinions, all mine!
Alcohol prohibition didn't work; drug prohibition doesn't work; gun
prohibition won't work.
From: smrtstr!syspb@uu.psi.com (Paul)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: Favorite Reloads
Date: 2 Sep 92 01:27:07 GMT
Organization: SmartStar Corp. / Signal Technolgy Inc.

Here are my favorite reloads for the 9mm.  These loads are limited by my
powder measure bushings, and powder measuring scoops.  These are the best
ones I could come up with, using what I had at the time.  Note, I always
use Winchester small pistol primers.  All of the reloading manuals rave
about Hercules Unique, but I don't like it because it's too dirty. 
Bullseye is good powder, but it is fast burning and has sharper recoil.

Bullet             Powder
______             ______

100 gr JHP         9.5 gr Hercules Blue Dot (Can go up to 10.1 gr)
115 gr FMJ or JHP  7.0 gr Hodgson HS6
124 gr JSP         8.1 gr Hercules Blue Dot (.7 cc)
115 gr SWC lead    4.5 gr Winchester 231
122 gr TC lead     5.8 gr Hercules Blue Dot (Light plinking load) (.5 cc)
""  "" ""  ""      6.3 gr Hodgson HS6 (Heavy plinking load, great in
                                       Marlin Camp 9 rifle)

Note: The 115gr SWC bullets are a bit tricky to load, because the overall
length is so short.  The 122gr TC works great with 6.3 gr of HS6.  When
I tried it in the 115gr SWC bullets, it had high pressure and actually
blew the primers out of the spent casings.  Even with 4.5 gr of Win 231 it
flattens the headstamp a bit in some loads.  But it is accurate and has
mild recoil.  My powder measure just won't let me put less powder in them.
These 115gr SWC bullets are the most accurate ones I've loaded so far.

One problem I had with the 122 gr TC bullets, is that if they were longer
than 1.085 inches, it would cause my gun to jam.  The slide wouldn't go
all of the way forwards, and you couldn't pull the triger.  I had to force
it closed before I could shoot.  When I seated them to 1.070, I didn't have
this problem and they worked fine.  I also shot some Hornady 125gr round
nose lead bullets.  These have a different type of lube, and didn't make
my gun as dirty as the waxy lube.  These were very accurate, but I can't
remember what powder and load I used.  I was very happy with them.  I
think I got 500 of them for $19.95 by mail order from Midway.

The 100gr HP bullet seemed to work the best in the Marlin Camp 9 rifle.
It is the only bullet that was accurate at 100 yards, that didn't have
excessive drop.  If you use over 9.5 grains of Blue Dot, it's hard to
fit it all in the case.  My freind loaded some Hornady 95 gr XTP HP
bullets with 10.5 grains of Blue Dot.  I don't know how he got that 
much powder in the case.  They worked good at 100 yds too, but I didn't
actually load them myself.
From: U16244%uicvm.uic.edu@OHSTVMA.ACS.OHIO-STATE.EDU
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: Stupid shooter tricks
Date: 26 Aug 92 21:43:20 GMT
Organization: University of Illinois at Chicago

I guess we've all had a few good ones, but has anyone out there ever had a
case of overkill hunting?

Picture this scene.  Five young men (high schoolers actually) out in a field,
hunting rabbits.  I was carrying a .22 caliber rifle, as were two or three
of the other guys.  One was carrying a Browning 20 gauge shotgun with birdshot,
and one macho kid actually was packing a 10 gauge shotgun, loaded with BB shot.
(I know, I know.  Why was this kid carrying artilery?  Because earlier in the
day he was showing off his 10 gauge slugs by shooting holes through trees.)
So, we're walking along, when a rabbit breaks from a shrub.  Everyone whirls
to nail the poor little bunny when we hear >THOOM THOOM THOOM!<  All of a
sudden, there's no rabbit.  We look at 10 Gauge Freddy and he just smiles
sheepishly.
"You dufus, you kicked up so much dirt, he got away!"
"Sorry guys."
"Ah, that's okay."
"Uh, my shoulder hurts man."
"No duh."
I start walking towards the section of field where the shells dumped their
payload (it looked like someone carpet bombed the place with a squadron of
those die cast bombers that I love playing with as a kid).  I take a step,
and suddenly, I go skidding, falling on my ass.  Everyone comes running my way
and another skids, but still stays up.  He's slipped on a piece of rabbit meat.
The guy with the 10 gauge had reduced poor little Bugs to rabbit stew.
It took us about 45 minutes to scoop the rabbit into a pail and we gave the
poor little thing a decent burial.  Needless to say, Hugo and his carpet
bomber were soon parted in favor of a .410 shotgun the next day.

Douglas P. Wojtowicz.
From: burge@qdeck.com (Bill Burge)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: Reloads
Date: 26 Aug 92 02:14:56 GMT
Organization: Quarterdeck Office Systems, Santa Monica CA

In article <9208242345.AA22843@spsgate.sps.mot.com> rigg@ssdt-tempe.sps.mot.com (Dana Rigg) writes:
#I've noticed that nobody ever posts their favorite loads.  Is this because
#of liability concerns?  I would like to share mine and see some loads that
#other people like but I don't want to get myself into trouble.  What is the
#common legal understanding of the readers?
#
#Dana Rigg
#
#[MODERATOR:  Actually, people seem to post loads pretty frequently here,
#maybe we've just had a short dry spell.  The common understanding on the
#net, at least here in rec.guns, is a refreshing one for this era:  "You're
#responsible for your own actions!!!"  If you load up a .30-'06 case chock
#full with Bullseye, then it doesn't matter if you thought you saw this in 
#a core dump file from some news reader --- you'd still be absolutely STUPID
#for ignoring basic safety procedures by not checking this load in a standard
#reference manual (*).   Your next of kin will appreciate your staying smart
#and taking posts here with a grain of salt.  Harsh words from the moderator 
#who advocates a kinder, gentler news group, but its the only way we can have
#it.   And, I am pretty sure readers understand this.  The only question is
#whether their lawyers will understand...  naw.
#
#(*) Don't try that load at home, kids.  Really.
#
#I'll post our charter as a reminder...  ]

Here's one of the loads that the moderator was talking about (probably
belong in Stupid Shooter Tricks).  A friend of a friend (don't you
love it when they start this way?) was loading 7 RemMag and didn't verify
that the powder measure was empty before adding H4831.  The last part
of the Bullseye from his .45's was still in there and he loaded a couple
of the Moderator's load.  Case full of Bullseye and a 165gr bullet.  He
got lucky - the initial energy lifted his cheek from the stock.  The bolt
took off the tip of his ear and didn't go right through his head.  It did
blow through a cinderblock wall after shearing off the locking lugs.  He
woke up in the hospital and is fine now (except for the tip of that right
ear).

Bill	burge@qdeck.com

[MODERATOR:  No, no, no!   Let's *not* start labeling this "the moderator's
load."  *argh*  I can see it now "The moderator at rec.guns recommended ...
therefore, your honor, ...." ]
From: cbl@uihepa.hep.uiuc.edu (Chris Luchini)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: Mail call
Date: 28 Aug 92 15:08:01 GMT
Organization: High Energy Physics, University of Illinois, Urbana-Champaign

In article <9208271336.aa11516@claudius.pica.army.mil>, erudnick@pica.army.mil (FSAC-SID) writes:
#
#In Gun Week there is reprinted a letter from Ruger General Counsel
#Sanetti to a California politician opposing the proposed ban on
#firearms with a melting point of less than ~800 F. The intent of the
#ban is to eliminate cast zinc as a material, but of course it would
#also affect Glock. Curiously, Ruger doesn't produce any firearms
#from either zinc or plastic (or do they?); perhaps the reaction to
#Bill's TV appearance is having the desired effect.

	Their new Mark II/45 has a Zytel frame, and they are planning
	(or so I've read) on coming out with something in plastic in
	a centerfire pistol. 

-c
*1110 W. Green/Urbana IL 61801/217-333-0505/cbl@uihepa.hep.uiuc.edu 
* for sale: Springfield Armory Factory Comp, 38 Super, +3 mags. All new
* in box (never fired at all).  $650 or best offer over $600 as of Sep 30.
From: tjohnson@xenon.stanford.edu (Ted C. Johnson)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: SKS 30 Round Magazines...
Date: 31 Aug 92 22:01:59 GMT
Organization: Computer Science Department, Stanford University.

#Also note that they are now selling 30 round fixed magazines.  They
#appear to be identical to the detachables, except for the info sheet
#that comes with them.

What is the difference between a "fixed" magazine and a "detached"
magazine? 

-Ted
From: U16244%uicvm.uic.edu@OHSTVMA.ACS.OHIO-STATE.EDU
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: I'm baack
Date: 25 Aug 92 21:19:49 GMT
Organization: University of Illinois at Chicago

Okay boys and girls, after a long summer of being without a computer terminal
and only having magazines to give me my gun lore knowledge, I'm back with a
list of a few questions.

Has anyone of you guys gotten a hold of a Colt M2000 and tried it out?  It
looks really interesting, and I was wondering if it was as good as the
magazines said.  Same goes for the new Browning BDM.

All you class three fanatics out there, this one's for you.  Do you happen
to know if the Polish version of the Mivro-Uzi or Ingrahm M-11 is still
being produced?  Not that it'll ever get into this country being a full auto
military sidearm, but I'm curious.  And have any of you ever tried it out?
I believe the name of it is a Wz-65.  It's made in 9mm Mak, and looks all
the world like a MAC with a forward pistol grip and short magazine (only
20 rounds I think).  I have had a chance to try out a friend's Stetchkin
(which wasn't all that hot), and think that the Polish version would be
real great, even better than the Skorpion (which is a nice little machine
pistol, but doesn't have any real punch).

Also, does anyone know if Def-Tec is producing the Striker 12 again?  I read
somewhere  (in the Punisher Armoury, issue number four) that the original
Striker 12's and Street Sweepers had a tendency to develop crack lines in
the mechanism.  Then I read Gary Paul Johnson's article that those suckers
are still being produced.  Again, it's another piece of ordinance I'd never
get to own or use, but would be real nice information if I should decide to
do some more action novel writing.

By the way, for those of you who are interested, Marvel's Punisher Armoury
series seems an awfully good review text, and is written by someone who
knows a hell of a lot about firearms.  Also, The Punisher comics, though
more often than not, bad, are quite good if you get Chuck Dixon or Mike
Grell (I believe he was the writer of the original book) as the writer.
They put some real plot into the stories, and actually have done their
research on the weapons used. (Although some artists do tend to draw
the Punisher Hollywooding, a pistol or even a sawed off shotgun, in each hand,
firing simultaneously).

Douglas P. Wojtowicz.
From: cbl@uihepa.hep.uiuc.edu (Chris Luchini)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: 10mm information needed
Date: 23 Aug 92 20:37:51 GMT
Organization: High Energy Physics, University of Illinois, Urbana-Champaign


In article <1992Aug23.011033.28874@henson.cc.wwu.edu>, you write:
#dougnews@access.digex.com (Doug Humphrey) writes:
#	The light bullets at high velocity should be the best ones, imo.
#You can get 155 grain JHPs that go what, 1300 fps?

	I seem to remember that Win. 175 grain Silvertips
	do something like 1350fps or so. (5" Delta )

	I've fired 1630fps 155's, but I would _not_ recommend it
	to anyone. 1450fps 155 seem quite reasonable. . . 

	DreamGunI'llNeverBeAbleToAfford: Wide body* Bren 10mm Clone
	with a decocker in addition to a cocked and locked option, 
	heavy bull barrel, 5.5" barrel including a ~1" comp, melted
	edges, with Novac low mount rear and a dot-front, bar-rear
	night sight installed. <2" groups @50 yards with both 1350fps
	175 grain bullets or 1200fps with 200 grain bullets. (Yes, I know
	I'm dreaming, but what the hell. . . )

	* the bren 10 (or so I've been told) doesn't use a fully staggered
	magazine, which is why the mag capacity is only 11 rounds, instead
	of ~16 like the wide body 1911 frames manage now days. 
*1110 W. Green/Urbana IL 61801/217-333-0505/cbl@uihepa.hep.uiuc.edu 
* for sale: Springfield Armory Factory Comp, 38 Super, +3 mags. All new
* in box (never fired at all).  $690 or best offer over $600 as of Sep 30.