From: tloh@husc8.harvard.edu (Teck Loh)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.korean,soc.culture.asian.american,soc.culture.asean
Subject: Re: Freedom of Speech
Date: 3 Sep 92 22:55:22 GMT
Article-I.D.: husc3.1992Sep3.185524.15350
Organization: Harvard University Science Center

In article <1992Sep3.022731.20269@leland.Stanford.EDU> underdog@leland.Stanford.EDU (Dwight Joe) writes:
>In article <la9qklINN2po@jethro.Corp.Sun.COM>
>melindac@thedarktower.Corp.Sun.COM (Melinda Cheung) writes:
>>		underdog@leland.Stanford.EDU (Dwight Joe) :
>>		> No.  Generally, I do not call any specific person a 
>>		> "savage", for example.
>>		> There is a difference in the following.  What I 
>>		> generally say is,
>>		>     I.  The Nazis are savages.
>>		>         The Chinese-cu are savages.
>>		> This is different from what Chinese-cu savages 
>>		> frequently say.  For example,
>>		> they say,
>>		>    II.  Dwight is a f*ck*r and a J*p wanna-be.
>>		>         Jane Woo is a wh*t* *ssk*ss*r.
>>		> Category I is _not_ a personal attack.  Category II 
>>		> _is_ a personal attack. There is a difference.
>>...
>>Good point. Dwight, I'd like your answer to this. If you remain silent,
>>I'll apply your logic that silence = consent.
>
>Don't put words into my mouth.
>
>Silence on the part of an individual indicates nothing; however, silence
>on the part of a statistically representative sample of people would
>indicate something.
>
>For example, the silence that we "hear" from the Chinese-cu with regard
>to Tibet indicates that many Chinese-cu, at least apathetically,
>condone the atrocities that are occurring yearly in Tibet.  Of course,
>the proof is in the pudding.  Just log onto some of the predominantly
>Chinese-cu newsgroups, and you, Ms. Cheung, will find that there are
>Chinese-cu who deny the atrocities committed by the Chinese-ge against the
>Tibetan and who, in fact, support the forced annexation of Tibet
>(and Taiwan).
>
>>
>>Dwight, is okay for me to say that all Stanford students are narrow-minded,
>>ill-informed and bigotted?? After all, I'm directing my comments at a group
>>of people, not individuals.
>
>I'll take this opportunity to indicate a fundamental difference
>between Chinese-cu thought and Western (and Japanese) thought.
>
>Ms. Cheung.  If _you_ choose to make that assessment about all Stanford
>students, then I _support_ your _right_ so.  I would not agree with your
>assessment or even the premise of your assessment, but I _support_
>100% your _right_ to air your views.  We can all learn from views that,
>radical as they might be, differ from our own.
>
>I (1) would _not_ attack you personally, (2) would not harrass you personally,
>(3) would _not_ flood your e-mail box, (4) would _not_ maraude you from
>newsgroup to newsgroup, etc.
>
>This is in stark contrast to the Chinese-cu view of the world.  If they
>don't like the views of a particular person, they think that it is
>all right to (1) attack him personally, (2) harrass him personally,
>(3) flood his e-mail box, (4) maraude him from newsgroup to newsgroup, etc.
>
You are trying to generalize again. What type of argument is this?? I still
remember you said that it is better for the chinese culture to die, the 
chinese people behave and act like animals. Maybe you have studied too hard.
Take my advise, have a good rest. 

>On a grander scale, this savage view of the world manifests itself
>clearly in the form of Chinese-cu support for the Chinese gov't's stated
>intention to use military force (including nuclear weapons) to invade
>Taiwan on the very minute that the Taiwanese people verbally declare
>the independence of their nation.  The Chinese-cu have no notion of
>the values conveyed in the Bill of Rights.  It's no surprise that the
>the West formed Amnesty International, an organization based on principles
>that are beyond the comprehension of most Chinese-cu.
>
You are generalizing things again. Don't worry, Mr. Joe. We are not so stupid
as to support the communists to kill our own brothers and sisters. The west
formed Amnesty International but they also formed KKK. By the way, I am a 
staunt supporter of Amnesty International. If you do not understand the 
chinese culture, shut up! Nobody will say that you are stupid.

>We as Americans (and Asian-Americans) should strongly support the
>principles of the Bill of Rights.  As a consequence, we should strongly
>support the RimPac92 military exercises, in which Japan will participate
>for the very first time with S. Korea and the USA; these nations should
>do everything in their power to ensure that the Chinese-cu keep their
>sticks and stones away from Taiwan when it declares independence and
>away from the rest of Southeast Asia.
>
Are you some sort of "hidden Japanese" filled with complexity?  I know a lot
of Americans and Japanese, you are no Americans or Japanese. At least my 
Japanese friends have more knowledge about the whole situation than you.
I can assure you that the majority of the Japanese does not support the 
military excercises. By the way, Mr. Joe, Taiwan was not a part of Southeast
Asia. Taiwan and the oversea chinese in Southeast Asia has an extremely good
relatioship.  Joe, I think it is time for you to shut up rather than talking
nonsense.  If you are trying to find your indentity by using "we" versus the
chinese, I think you have failed badly. If you cannot tolerate other culture 
I do not think you deserve to be an American. Maybe, you need more time to
adapt to this new land. 

>We Americans must "teach" the Chinese-cu that they must respect the
>rights and freedoms (including the right of self-determination) of 
>people.  We must back up our commitment with the full arsenal of Western
>and Northeast Asian military technical might.
>
Make sure you don't bankrupt yourself. Although you have different view, I
still respect you. It is your right and freedom to say what you want. 
Remember, the Americans are not so stupid as you thinking that military is
the solution. Remember, the government and the people are totally different
in a communist government. The government action is not the people action.
Therefore, it has nothing to do with the chinese culture. 

>-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>Seikatsu no imi wa nan desu ka.            \|  |`      | Don't buy from Toyota;
>Shitte itara oshiete kuremasen ka.          | -+-      | especially, don't buy
>                                           /| / \      | from Capitol Toyota in
>Copyright 1992.                                        | San Jose, California.
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EMPTY VESSELS MAKE THE MOST NOISE!

T-P LOH