From: billn@hpcvaac.cv.hp.com (bill nelson)
Subject: Re: alt.pagan survey
Organization: Hewlett-Parkard Company, Corvallis, Oregon USA
Date: Fri, 10 Apr 1992 02:27:57 GMT

Continuing the questionaire:

smayo@wang.com (Scott Mayo) writes:

: 51.	Someday, you will (or could) be as a god. Agree/Disagree.
 
Who knows? I doubt if I would want to be.

: 52.	Two neo-pagans get into a polite, but firm disagreement over which
: 	goddess is to be worshipped. One insists that a particular historical
: 	goddess is most correct (ie, Inanna). The other feels that all such
: 	goddesses are really the same at heart and it doesn't matter which
: 	you choose. If you felt inclined to enter the conversation, which
: 	side would you choose? 1=specific goddess 2=all goddesses

In the first place, for most pagans (and neo-pagans), your premise is wrong.
There are very few pagans that would insist that they know the one-true-way
and that others are wrong.

I doubt if there are very many pagans that worship any one aspect of deity
to the exclusion of others. How many Christians all have the same beliefs
about God and Jesus? If all Christians agreed, then there would not be so
many sects.

: 53.	A christian and a neopagan get into a polite, but firm disagreement
: 	over which god is to be worshipped. One (the neo-) insists that all
: 	gods are are really the same at heart and it doesn't matter which
: 	you choose, including ones considered quite evil historically. The
: 	Christian argues for her One God. If you *had* to support one side or
:         the other, which would you tend to prefer?
: 	1=christian's god 2=all gods

Would the neo-pagan insist that "all gods are really the same at heart"?
I am sure some would. There are others that enjoy having a varied pantheon.

Put it another way:

A Christian of sect A and a Christian of sect B get into a polie, but firm
disagreement over which view of God is to be worshipped. One insists that
all views of God are really the same at heart and it doesn't matter which
you choose, including views where God is considered to be quite evil
historically. The other argues for her One God. If you *had* to support
one side or the other, which would you tend to prefer?
1) sect A's God  or  2) sect B's God

Now do you understand? I cannot support either. There is no such thing as
"having to support one side or the other". Each person's view of deity is
individual and valid for that person - it may or may not be valid for
others.

: 54.	Variations in rituals (magical or worship) are unimportant, even if
: 	they are somewhat significant in nature.  Agree/Disagree.

Is there a written law somewhere that tells me exactly how I must worship?
Lacking such a law, I see no need to worry about the matter. 

: 55.	Ritual is a snare; all worship and/or magic should be highly
: 	spontaneous. Agree/Disagree.

I would disagree, others might not. I would consider organized and truly
heartfelt prayer to be very powerful. The same can sometimes be said of  
other forms of ritual, such as Communion, or baby showers, or weddings.

: 56.	No religion is worthwhile or helpful unless followed with complete
: 	devotion, ideally as a life-long effort. Agree/Disagree.

That is for the individual to decide.

: 57.	It is right, good and helpful to select various pieces of various
: 	religions and combine them as a person sees fit. Thus, a
: 	buddhist-unitarian-judiac fusion might be a meaningful and worthwhile
: 	path for someone. Agree/Disagree (not necessarially with that
: 	specific example)

Why not? All religions, throught history have done so. This includes
Christianity and Judaism.  Why should this be wrong?

: 58.	Have you made an in-depth study of two or more religions?
: 	(college-level studies, intensive independent reading, or
: 	several years of practice in a religion all count)

Yes.

: 59.	Have you "dabbled" in three or more religions in your life?
: 	(Dabbled indicates some attempt at learning and practice, but
: 	not in a serious (to your own mind) manner.)

Depends on how you split the religous groups. It also depends on how
you define "learning and practice". Are you using "dabbled" in the
sense of "played but did not believe or attempt to believe"? If not,
how do you define the term? Your question is really impossible to  
answer as it stands.

: 60.	Agree/Disagree: The neo-pagan movement is fun and enteraining,
: 	but not a serious thing.

It certainly is fun and entertaining - so is this posting. That does
not mean that either is not a serious thing. By the way, what do you
mean by serious?

It certainly is serious to many - to others, it means little or nothing.
So what? The same can be said about any group you wish to name.

I sometimes have a hard time taking anything seriously, even being serious.

: 61.	I find I am generally in agreement with postings on alt.pagan,
: 	when they pertain to pagan issues. Agree/Disagree.

Read my postings and find out - I have not kept track. As do most people
who try to think once in a while, I do have my own opinions.

: 62.	The Newage movement is dangerous to its practitioners, and you
: 	wish it would end. Agree/Disagree.

I doubt if it is any more dangerous than any other movement - it is not
inherently evil, if that is what you were trying to say.

: 63.	Magic cannot really be used for evil practices; such attempts
: 	generally backfire. Agree/Disagree.

You tell me. Have you had a magical act backfire - have  you had a prayer
go awry? I haven't - I also do not associate with people who I perceive
to be bad, so how can I say what happens to them or what causes these
things to happen?

: 64.	Magic is neither inherently evil nor inherently good, and can be
: 	used in either way. Agree/Disagree.

Certainly. I have heard people pray for the recovery of a loved one. I have
also heard a tele-evangeli-slime ask his followers to pray for the death of
an opponent.  What do you think?

: 65.	A life not spent in improving the world and/or drawing closer to the
: 	divine is wasted. Agree/Disagree.

My opinion of what is right for my life has no bearing on what is right for
another. It is up to the person to decide what is worthwhile in their life.

: 66.	Witchcraft has been viewed as evil by many groups throughtout history.
: 	This is MOSTLY because (choose one):
: 	1. It has been used in evil ways by some unscrupulous people
: 		in the past, giving it a bad reputation.
: 	2. It relies on spirits and powers which are neither good nor bad,
: 		but some experiments into it have gone badly, giving it
: 		a bad reputation.
: 	3. Magic really is fundamentally evil.
: 	4. People always view as evil anything they do not do themselves.

4. comes closest to the truth. For example, the Witch hunt in many countries
brought out many opportunistic people who were only interested in lining
their own pockets with gold - they could care less that the people who the
supposedly "sniffed out" were actually not witches. Many of them confessed
this later. 

: 67.	Only certain kinds of magic are real; other kinds are fake. If you
: 	agree, you are espousing the view that, for example, cabalistic
: 	magic is real, but other kinds are not. Agree/Disagree.

No type of magic is more real than any other. 

: 68.	You believe that crystals can enhance a person's power, ability
: 	to live happily, or creativity. Agree/Disagree.

Well, I cut gemstones, so you could say that they enhance my creativity.

A center of focus is often useful for various purposes - so, for someone
that needs this focus, a crystal might be the perfect object. Others might
use a picture of a loved one - or a candle - or a tree, etc.

: 69.	You wish every piece of quartz on the planet could be ground to
: 	dust and scattered, because of all the nonsense spoken these
: 	days about quartz crystals. Agree/Disagree.

Why? They are pretty. Just because someone believe a lot of nonsense about
some object does not mean that object should be destroyed. Destruction is
usually the course followed when someone cannot understand something or
feels threatened by it - this is unfortunate, but true.

: 70.	You believe in Astral, Ethereal, or other planes of existance.
: 	Agree/Disagree.

Not personally - that does not mean they do not exist.

: 71.	I engage in fantasy roleplaying. Agree/Disagree. (This is different
: 	from, my system of belief was derived from fantasy roleplay).

Certainly - it gives a person a chance to be creative in a different
direction. 

: 72.	There are no evil persons, only evil acts. Agree/Disagree.

This comes down to definitions - how can a person be evil, just by
being that person? 

: 73.	A wiccan you know becomes extremely angry with you (assume he
: 	has a reason to be angry). He storms off, with many a dark
: 	warning about what is going to happen you in the very near future.
: 	And sure enough, things start going wrong in your life, starting
: 	that very night. Do you
: 	1. Assume he did something magical to you?
: 	2. Assume it was coincidence?
: 	3. Asssume you have frightened yourself into unconsciously bringing
: 		problems down on yourself?
: 	4. Assume that powers are attacking you, but not at his behest?

Personally, I would assume it was coincidental. I would expect that 3 would
apply to many others - this has been documented.

: 74.	If you answered (1) to question 73, which action are you most likely
: 	to take? (Assume he remains angry and cannot be mollified).

N/A.

: 75.	Peace can only be found in personal perfection (or a serious attempt
: 	in that direction). Agree/Disagree.

Why? We are all imperfect - why not just make the most we can of our lives
and be at peach with ourselves for that.

: 76.	A relationship with the divine is more important to you than anything
: 	(or you try to live as if it were).

Neither the belief or the hypocrisy of "trying to live as if it were".

: 77.	Agree/Disagree: I am a neo-pagan.

Define the term.

: 78.	Cats know much more than we suspect.

Maybe, but then it is probable that many other animals know more than
we suspect. I am sure that some are stupider than we believe.

: Mail your answers to smayo@wang.com. Make sure the mail you send has a
: subject of "alt.pagan survey" or it may be ignored. If you have private
: flames you want to send me, use a different title, please.
: --
: These are only my opinions.  You should hear my convictions.
: smayo@wang.com

Convictions are fine, as long as they are not blindly kept, regardless of
evidence to the contrary.

Bill