HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: jf0002@acad.drake.edu
Subject: Hi Honey, I'm home (GKTT85)
Organization: Drake University, Des Moines, Iowa, USA
Date: Wed, 16 Dec 1992 04:08:34 GMT

Hi Everybody,

I'm home, I'm alive.  There is a GOD after all.  This is Keith formerly
from Mankato, MN, now DM, IA.  <--have fun  :)

First note:  As much as I'd appreciate the hugs and kisses, please do not
             reply to this account.  This is a borrowed account from a
             next-door neighbor on a campus established by the Disciples
             of Christ.  I'll catch everything on the newsgroup.

Second note:  Where is everyone?  Brian of Toronto, The Cohens of New England,
              The bears of Motss.4 in toronto?

              Let me see who is here:  Amanda, Cramer, Furr, Jess, ....
                            
              OKAY, OKAY, there is just more people on the net. (YAHOOO!!)

Third note:   KKenney of Southeast coast?,  Here is a hug from me.  I hope
              things went okay.

Fourth note:  Please add The Principal Financial Group of Des Moines to the
              list of those that have sexual orientation policies against
    	      discrimination and the list of those who extend benefits to
              spouses of nontraditional households(the pc term escapes me).
              We(the gay/lesbian ee's of PFG) are having a little difficulty
              with the new policy, but at least they are offering it and 
              we have something to shoot for in the future.

Fifth note:   A short recap of the Portland motss.con.v would be nice.

Sixth note:   I have taken up enough bandwidth, so ciao.

P.S. Brown Bear, I'll be calling you soon.

Keith Cheetham
formerly gktt85@vax1.mankato.msus.who.cares.account.now.closed
future:  unknown.


Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: solovay@netcom.com (Andrew M. Solovay)
Subject: Re: A Taste of Culture
Keywords: Gay food
Organization: People's Front of Judea
Date: Fri, 18 Dec 1992 04:14:18 GMT

In article <rizzoe.587.724635796@FASECON.ECON.NYU.EDU> rizzoe@FASECON.ECON.NYU.EDU (Emily Rizzo) writes:
>This reminds me of an Italian dish I had in a very expensive restaurant in 
>Little Italy (that's in New York).  It was called "Mounds of Venus" and 
>started with two slices of veal covered with fresh mozarella mounds 
>appropriately cone shaped and topped with an olive slice.  It was 
>absolutely delicious but it was a strange sensation cutting into it.

Come now. If I can eat corn dogs...
-- 
Andrew Solovay    

"SILENCE = QUIET"
                --Girljock Magazine
Xref: sparky soc.motss:52066 alt.politics.homosexuality:7888
From: Charlie Fulton <charlie@isis.mit.edu>
Subject: Re: Recently visited Dachau...
Organization: Ctr for Advanced Rsrch in Oppressive Binarisms
X-Useragent: Nuntius v1.1
Date: Fri, 11 Dec 1992 19:05:58 GMT

In article <1992Dec11.150105.19512@pony.Ingres.COM> 
jeff bowles, jab@Ingres.COM writes:
>Yet, it seems, Dachau has already whitewashed the blood of gays from
>its history. Who is next?
>

You remind me of the time Elie Wiesel paid a visit to my high school
and omitted homosexuals from his list of holocaust victims three
times during his speech.  Being closeted at the time, I didn't ask him
about it during the subsequent Q&A session.  Pity that.

"Never forget" that the mention of homosexuality in any context is very
upsetting to some people.

Charlie
Newsgroups: soc.motss,soc.bi
From: waal@cwi.nl (Peter de Waal)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: Outed by the 'phone company?
Date: 16 Dec 92 10:29:58 GMT

In the Netherlands, where itemized billing is going to be introduced
next year, any subscriber can choose whether his number can be listed
on the bill of another subscriber. This was done especially to
guarantee some sort of privacy.

--- Peter de Waal, CWI, Amsterdam <waal@cwi.nl> --- 
  "Please captain, not in front of the Klingons!"
From: jefu@nmt.edu (Jeff Putnam)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: soc.motss.*
Date: 19 Dec 92 23:20:57 GMT
Organization: The Museum of Differential Geometry

In article <1992Dec19.123924.24666@panix.com> mara@panix.com (Mara Chibnik) writes:
>thaaang@cwis.unomaha.edu (John Dorrance) suggests:
> >soc.motss.salmon
> >soc.motss.mauve
> >soc.motss.dusty.rose
> >soc.motss.vermillion
> >or something like that. Red, orange, blue, and green are for crayons.

>Amen.  And I notice that neither JNS nor thaaang (did I count
>right?) suggested lavender.  My thesaurus offers:
>purple, lavender, lilac, violet, magenta, mulberry, puce,
>mauve,hyacinthine, amethistine, soferino, plum, raisin
>(among others).

Or taupe, or fuchsia.  Both great colors, and even better words.

>What's solferino? 

My dictionary says "moderate purplish red".  Another good word.



-- 
jefu <=> Jeff Putnam - New Mexico Tech <=> jefu@nmt.edu 
"Daffodils go Ping! and Oink! // They Really are alarming 
I'm scared of big geraniums // And I'm sure that Lilac's harming"
(Dr. Bertram X. Fegg)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: rhayden@oracle.com (Ronald Hayden)
Subject: Re: Call/Fax/Write Fernandez
Organization: Oracle Corporation, Belmont, Ca.
Date: Tue, 15 Dec 1992 21:18:40 GMT
X-Disclaimer: This message was written by an unauthenticated user
              at Oracle Corporation.  The opinions expressed are those
              of the user and not necessarily those of Oracle.

Pardon the lack of a response header here -- gnus just stopped
cooperating...


>>         ################################################################
>>         ##  Kenny Campbell         ______     If at first you don't   ##
>>         ##  Imperial College       \    /     succeed, failure might  ##
>>         ##  London                  \  /      be your style.          ##
>>         ##  kc2@doc.ic.ac.uk         \/                 Quentin Crisp ##
>>         ################################################################
>
>While I'm being ignorant here, what is the significance of the triangle?

I'm sure I'll be the 50th response, but just in case...

An inverted pink triangle was used in the holocaust to mark a gay
person.  Gays were killed in the holocaust, along with Jews and
others.

Gays have adopted the symbol as our own.

I have noticed recently that it's becoming more in vogue to point the
triangle up, probably to indicate the positive direction of gay
rights.  Being rather a traditionalist when it comes to symbols, I
prefer to keep it pointed down...
--

  - Ronald Hayden

    ----------------------------------------------------------------
   | Documentation Manager, Oracle Toolkit Group                    |
   | Co-chair of Oracle Lambda, Oracle's Gay/Lesbian/Bisexual group |
   | Writer, magician, and various other things                     |
    ----------------------------------------------------------------
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: gandalf@dworkin.ccs.northeastern.edu (Thomas M Farrell)
Subject: Re: An Apology
Organization: College of Computer Science, Northeastern University
Date: Fri, 11 Dec 1992 22:16:37 GMT

Oh, please. I think we all need to lighten up a bit. 
How are we supposed to express anger?
"That extremely unpleasant person, Lou Sheldon, makes me very very 
perturbed." Right. It really sounds angry.
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: mchaffee@ux4.cso.uiuc.edu (REAL LIFE?!?!  HA!!)
Subject: Re: Repeal of the Law of Return?
Organization: University of Illinois at Urbana
Date: Sat, 12 Dec 1992 03:48:26 GMT

max@queernet.org (Max J. Rochlin) writes:

[examples of how Israel can kick out people for being HIV+ omitted]

>I'm boycotting Israel.  No Israeli menorah candles in this house.

>Signed...a former jew.

I can think of better reasons to boycott Israel, personally......

Besides, if you accept the Jewish faith, couldn't you look at Israel as an
unfortunate result, and not a true representative?
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Michael T. Chaffee        | mchaffee@ux4.cso.uiuc.edu  |  ______    
                                                       |  \    /   HATE
"I chased a rainbow down a one-way street.  Dead end." |   \  /  is not a
     - S. P. McCall                                    |    \/  FAMILY VALUE
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: mdrayton@sr.hp.com (Mike Drayton)
Subject: Re: Whisk[e]y (was: Have yourself a fairy ...)
Date: Fri, 11 Dec 1992 22:04:50 GMT
Organization: HP Santa Rosa Site (SRSD - MWTD) - Santa Rosa, Ca.
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1.9 PL6]

"So what'll it be, big boy?"

"*Usquebaugh*, and make it a double!"

[How do you pronounce those asterisks, anyway?]

Mike Drayton      mdrayton@sr.hp.com       Hewlett-Packard Co.
                                           Santa Rosa, California
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: prufrock@leland.Stanford.EDU (Scot N Gibson)
Subject: More perks for homos.
Summary: Life's great, ain't it?
Keywords: perks, homos
Organization: DSG, Stanford University, CA 94305, USA
Date: Fri, 18 Dec 92 20:41:09 GMT

I was walking back from my last final (praise be to the Almighty)
today, wearing my pink triangle button, when I came to a busy
intersection.  I was having trouble crossing, when the traffic just
stopped in front of the crosswalk.  I looked at the car in front, and
this woman (who looked pretty stereotypically dyke-ish: headband and
spikey hair, anyway) smiled out at me and gave me a thumbs up.  I
returned her smile and sauntered across the now-empty crosswalk in all
of my glory.  I'm still smilin'.

Made me *proud* to be a fag.

--scoT

-- 
 ______  | Scot N. Gibson  | "At times, indeed, almost ridiculous-- |
 \    /  | Stanford Univ.  |  Almost, at times, the Fool."          |
  \  /   +-----------------+-------------+             - T.S. Eliot |
   \/    | prufrock@leland.stanford.edu  |--------------------------+
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: mhr@hpuerca.atl.hp.com (Mike Reaser)
Subject: Re: Is it actually 10%??
Date: Fri, 18 Dec 1992 23:04:36 GMT
Organization: a stone mountain of Kudzu

In <1992Dec18.183247.28359@cbnewsl.cb.att.com> ry@cbnewsl.cb.att.com (ryerson.schwark) writes:

>In article <rizzoe.589.724685681@FASECON.ECON.NYU.EDU> rizzoe@FASECON.ECON.NYU.EDU (Emily Rizzo) writes:
>>
>>I believe Pat Robertson had an answer to your question:
>>
>>  "The feminist agenda has nothing to do with 
>>  equal rights for women. It is a socialist, 
>>  anti-family movement that encourages women 
>>  to leave their husbands, kill their children, 
>>  practice withchdraft, destroy capitalism and 
>>  become lesbians." 

>I guess that's why I like feminists so much.  They have my kind
>of values.  Pass the barbequed baby please.

Don't forget, "Happy Solstice!".

--
=======================================================================
 Mike Reaser, Hewlett-Packard N. Amer. Response Center - Atlanta
 Internet:  mhr@hpuerca.atl.hp.com
 NBCS: B4 f w g+ k s-               I barely speak for myself, so
 #include <standard.disclaimer>       don't make me speak for HP
=======================================================================
Newsgroups: soc.motss,talk.politics.misc
From: bothner@Xenon.Stanford.EDU (Per M. Bothner)
Subject: Re: Dyke to head HHS
Organization: Computer Science Department, Stanford University.
Date: Mon, 14 Dec 1992 09:30:10 GMT

When I lived in Madison, it was generally "known" that Shalala was a
Lesbian, and I recall some talk about a specific lover.

Reading the New York Times biography was most interesting and
amusing to an ex-Madisonian.  Shalala was notorious for her
self-promotion, and we would gleefully point out that Donna
had again managed to get mentioned in NYT or interviewed in
Newsweek.  The "Isthmus" (the local "alternative" free entertainment
weekly, featuring occasional classical music review by Jess
Anderson) once ran a hilarious cartoon showing "the Donna Shalala
publicity machine running out of control."  We all
assummed she was gunning for Secretary of Education in the
next Democratic administration, and we were pretty close!
In spite of her self-promotion, she was rather popular, and
most of us quite liked her.  Once, I had dinner at her residence
(as I was "spousal equivalent" of a faculty member who was
invited).  She was quite pleasant.  I expect she'll do a
pretty good job in Washington.
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: roy@panix.com (Roy Radow)
Subject: Re: Age-ism and the gay community
Date: Fri, 18 Dec 1992 23:56:27 GMT
Organization: PANIX Public Access Unix, NYC

In <1992Dec18.021033.13179@bsu-ucs> 00bbharris@leo.bsuvc.bsu.edu writes:

>Everyone talks about racism.... and sexism.... and, here recently, heightism.
>But i want  alk about something of significant importance to me and thousands
>of other of teh gay youth:
>				AGEISM!!!

Dear Brandon,

     I admire your courage in exposing something which most gay and
lesbians would just as soon deny or ignore. 

     You are correct in perceiving that gay and lesbian youth are 
all too often treated either as pariahs or as just another piece of
"fresh meat".

     In a sense, many older gays and lesbians have internalized straight
society's hysteria over "recruiting" younger people into homosexuality,
or their strongly held belief that young people are incapable of consent
or even knowing their own mind when sex is involved. (You have a right
to say No, but Yes is not an option available to you.)

     Many gays and lesbians who do not feel secure in who they are,
and the rights to which they are entitled as human beings, often fear 
antagonizing straight society and endangering the position (or funding)
they have achieved.  And thus they either exclude our youth, or are unable
to interact with them in a normal way.

     This may, to some extent, explain such behavior. IT IN NO WAY
SAYS THAT WE SHOULD ACCEPT OR EXCUSE IT. Racism is wrong. Sexism is
wrong. Ageism is wrong!

     In terms of providing some consolation you should know that 
there are people working to expose and correct this injustice. In 
this you are not alone. And hopefully you will be able to find 
someone who will relate to you in terms of your character rather
than your birth date. 

Yours in Liberation,

Roy

-- 
Roy Radow               roy@panix.com         ...rutgers!cmcl2!panix!roy
North American Man/Boy Love Association -For a packet containing a sample
Bulletin, publications list and membership information send $1.00 postage
to: NAMBLA Info,  Dept.RR,  PO Box 174,  Midtown Station,  NYC NY  10018.
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: coren@speed.osf.org (Robert Coren)
Subject: Re: Parking (was Re: Castro Street (Re: Two threads ... ))
Organization: Open Software Foundation
Date: Fri, 11 Dec 1992 23:50:44 GMT

In article <1992Dec11.181549.21249@spdcc.com>, rdonahue@spdcc.com (Bob Donahue) writes:
> Apparently stop signs,
> red lights, pedestrians, signaling, etc are all optional (this
> isn't true in Massachusetts, and every know an d then I have to hear
> baout someome whining their ass off about how they got
> a ticket on a bicycle!

Which is extraordinary, considering how difficult it is in
Massachusetts to get a ticket for a moving violation while driving a
car.
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: mhr@hpuerca.atl.hp.com (Mike Reaser)
Subject: West Virginia?  GET REAL! (was Re: Gay Rights Ordinance..)
Date: Mon, 14 Dec 1992 16:04:45 GMT
Organization: a stone mountain of Kudzu

In <d=g2vh+@rpi.edu> buckmr@vccsouth15.its.rpi.edu (Ron Buckmire) writes:


>I don't suppose there are ordinances in WEST VIRGINIA? I have been reading
>Neil Miller's IN SEARCH OF GAY AMERICA and find it fascinating [and 
>disheartening, in the beginning].


Oh, puhleeze.  I was born in West Virginia, my family's been in what is
now West Virignia since the 1700's, and I can almost guaran-damn-tee you
no such ordinance exists anywhere in the state.  If by chance one does,
it would have to be in either Morgantown (home of West Virginia Univ.),
Wheeling, or Charleston.

Not a flame to anyone from the state of Kanawah, but social attitudes
there are absolutely  prehistoric.  Even those relatives to whom I'm
out can't understand why I haven't gotten married and had children,
because it's my "duty" as the only son, only grandson, and oldest
great-grandson with the family name "to help the line survive".  Ugh.

--
=======================================================================
 Mike Reaser, Hewlett-Packard N. Amer. Response Center - Atlanta
 Internet:  mhr@hpuerca.atl.hp.com
 NBCS: B4 f w g+ k s-               I barely speak for myself, so
 #include <standard.disclaimer>       don't make me speak for HP
=======================================================================
From: livesey@solntze.wpd.sgi.com (Jon Livesey)
Newsgroups: soc.motss,alt.politics.homosexuality
Subject: Re: Call/Fax/Write Fernandez
Date: 14 Dec 1992 21:20:38 GMT
Organization: sgi
Distribution: world
NNTP-Posting-Host: solntze.wpd.sgi.com

In article <1gh52fINNpsu@hp-col.col.hp.com>, reykja@col.hp.com (Reykja Sigurdsson) writes:
|> thaaang@cwis.unomaha.edu (John Dorrance) writes:
|> 
|> > Consider black people. It used to be that the only representation
|> > they had in media were negative. Other than that, everyone in the
|> > media was white. There were no black representations, which made
|> 
|> Not much has changed, has it? 

As a matter of fact, a very important and fundamental thing has changed,
which is that black and white kids now go to school together much more
than they ever did, and are taught to respect one another.

Segregation's ostensible reason for separating children in education
was that blacks had "certain characteristics" which would interfere
with the education of white children.   Once black and white children
began to be integrated, those characteristics were shown to be myth.

Segregation  used myths to separate races, but then that separation
was in turn used to perpetuate the myths.    As long as black and white
children were kept separate, they could be taught to believe certain 
myths about one another.   Once they were integrated, although racism
survives at an individual level, the education system itself is no
longer being misused to propagate racial myths and stereotypes.

Of course gays can't literally be excluded from the education system
- not yet, at least - so what bigots have to do is to try to exclude
all objective information about Gays from the education process instead,
so that myths about Gays will flourish.

It's not true that churches, for example, think too much information is
confusing for young minds.   Take a walk through a Christian bookstore
some day.    You will find shelves and shelves of books "about" groups.
Books about Moslems, books about atheists, books about Budhists, books
about Gay.    It's quite amazing how eager Christian leaders seem to be
to supply information about any and every group. 

What's really going on here is not that people think too much information
is confusing.   The real issue is a competition about who will supply
that information.     Bigots don't want to spare young children from
confusion.   They want to protect them from information which conflicts
with popular stereotypes.

jon. 
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: rhiann@carson.u.washington.edu (Sandy --not Sandra)
Subject: Re: Soc.Motss.*
Organization: University of Washington, Seattle
Date: Fri, 18 Dec 1992 03:56:57 GMT

In article <18164@autodesk.COM> owen@autodesk.com (D. Owen Rowley) writes:
>I'd also like to add my support for dumping the *motss* tag.
>
>motss as an acronym was coined so as not to offend the sensibilitys of 
>news administrators and other corporate types.
>I think its time to come out of the electronic closet and be more visible.
>Of course I prefer soc.queer, and understand that there are folks
>who have problems with that label, but ther doesn't seem to be another
>word that sums it up so neatly.
>
soc.LGBO*

;-)
-- 
 * Sandy *   "I'll believe Avon treated men and women equally the day I see
       	     him kiss a man, tell him he's beautiful when he's angry, kill
     	     him and then gloat over it."    Sue Clerc <sclerc@andy.bgsu.edu>
From: jjt@spchsys.spchsys (John J. Turley)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: gay and straight friendships (was Re: Why don't more women post?)
Summary: not enough friendships
Date: 14 Dec 92 21:56:24 GMT
Organization: Speech Systems Inc., Tarzana, CA

In article <168B911FD6.TMCCART3@ua1vm.ua.edu>, TMCCART3@ua1vm.ua.edu
(Tracey Shyster stealth-lesbian-weasel-in-training) writes:
>
> My best friend is a straight male. He is the first person ever to hear me
> utter the words, "I'm a lesbian." It's amazing to me how supportive he's
> been; I'm not sure where I'd be right now if he had reacted badly. I
> wish there were more friendships like this -- free of sexual awkwardness (like
> the kind I felt with several female friends in my younger days). ...

How wonderful! Isn't it terribly sad that there are not more situations
like this, but instead a lot of awkwardness? Why must this be so?

Sadly, it seems that so many of us are concerned about gender, that we will  
deprive ourselves from meeting other people and becoming friends. But in the
process, we are doing a disservice to ourselves! In the straight world where
I live (er, sometimes this can be alternately spelled "str8" or "strayt" :-),
there are many, many men and women who have no close friends of their own gender.
Why don't they have any same-sex friends? From many discussions on the topic,
the answer is stated quite simply: It seems they feel they don't need any, and
have no interest in developing a friendship with a person of their gender. And
need I add that they have no gay friends? Again, they feel that there is really
no need. Of course, here there is no doubt some homophobia at work :-( 

From the motts postings I have read on this topic, it seems all too often the
exact opposite is occurring: people being interested exclusively in their own
gender, to the extent that the opposite one gets ignored. From this would it
be an oversimplification to state that what many of us are doing is saying : 
"I can never forsee being intimate sexually with you, so I don't want to get
to know you any better or become friends with you." If this is true, then what
a terrible tragedy this is...

Think of how much more tolerant the world would be if there were many more
friendships across gender lines, sexual orientations, religions, and
everything under the sun! It certainly is possible, but it looks like there
is still a long way to go. Sigh. Well, enough ranting...

-John


-- 
<>  John Turley -- Linguist, Systems Administrator, and President for Life   <>
 <>                    Speech Systems, Incorporated                         <>
 <>                  18356 Oxnard St., Tarzana, Ca. 91356                   <>
<>                      celia!spchsys!jjt@usc.edu                            <>
Newsgroups: soc.motss