HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: rks@cscns.com (gisle j benediktsson)
Subject: Re: Colo Springs for Holidays?
Organization: Community_News_Service
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1 PL8]
Distribution: usa
Date: Tue, 15 Dec 1992 04:50:08 GMT

Sure wish I could offer something. I live in Colo Springs and, believe
me, there ain't NUTHIN' going on here. I am taking off to visit friends
in California. 

:-/


Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: paul@psych.toronto.edu (Paul Hastings)
Subject: Re: A Taste of Culture
Keywords: Gay food 
Organization: Department of Psychology, University of Toronto
Date: Wed, 16 Dec 1992 19:55:14 GMT

In article <1992Dec16.183021.405@cbfsb.cb.att.com> rcrice@cbnewsb.cb.att.com (roger.w.crice) writes:
>
>So, I need some creative suggestions:  The Affirmative
>Action committee here at my office hosts on occasion an
>event they call "A Taste of Culture."  In fact we're having
>one today. 
>

>When I first heard about this, I thought to myself What
>sort of food could I share with my coworkers that would
>represent *my* culture?  All I could think of was canape's
>and cocktails.  

While that's certainly a start, the answer is:

PASTA PASTA PASTA PASTA PASTA PASTA PASTA PASTA

It's gotten to the point that I try to think of things OTHER THAN PASTA
to serve if I have people over for dinner, 'cause it seems to me that
gay men eat, and serve, more linguine, penne, rigatoni, spaghetti, you
name it, than any other cultural group on this planet!  
Really, a nice penne al pesto with a light extra virgin olive oil, no cream
or tomato sauce, is joost diviiine, but don't you dare skimp on the garlic!

>                When I read a note from the event coordinator
>asking everyone to please consider bringing in a *dish*, 

Well, if what they want is gay dish, you just strut right up there and give
those breeders a piece of your mind, honey!  Take a long drag off that long
cigarette, forcefully direct the smoke upwards, slightly to the left, level
a deeply penetrating yet utterly dismissive gaze at your supervisor, tell
that trash what you *really* think of company policy, sip your martini, 
turn on your heel (BIG RED PUMPS) and swish the hell away.

>Does anyone have a favorite "dish?"

Well, here in Toronto, Pepsi does a helluva job...   

>Thanks in advance for your ideas,

Anytime.
-paul

-- 
Aunt Em,                                 I think we better go get some-
     Hate you.  Hate Kansas.             thing to eat before we end up 
     Taking the dog.                     like the Donner party.
                        Dot.                             Buster Bunny.
From: jns@elea.umd.edu (J. N. Shaumeyer)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: source of the word 'faggot' (was: Hey Edgar!)
Date: 20 Dec 92 04:11:56 GMT
Organization: Militant Homosexual Lobby, Gay Lifestyles, Inc.


DONALD L. HARDY (dh0a@ns1.cc.lehigh.edu) wrote:
 
[Arne Adolphson:]
> >Grrrrrrrrrrrrrr.  The old punishment for homosexuality in England and
> >English-speaking North America was hanging and/or drawing and quartering,
> >not burning at the stake.
> 
> Okay.  Let's settle this.  I have heard the burning thing a LOT, but don't
> believe it at ALL.  I think it is an urban legened.  If ANYONE can find a
> documented case of a homosexual being burned as punishment, POST IT.

[Blah, blah, show *me*!]

I have just finished reading _Chrisitanity, Social Tolerance,
and Homosexuality_ by John Boswell, and can recommend it to
answer your questions.  [Thanks to Colburn Eigen for the
suggestion--there are *so* many good faggot books for me to
catch up on.]

First, please distinguish between two things: burning prescribed
as punishment, and someone's actually being burned for it.

That burning was in fact a prescribed punishment, appearing in
the 13th century, is easily documented.  See Boswell for the
references, as well as for enlightenment on several other
entertaining and exceedingly gruesome punishments.

That anyone was actually burned strictly as a punishment for
homosexuality, as Boswell points out, is extremely difficult 
to establish.  How important is it to you to view the charred
remains?

Besides, urban legends didn't start until at least the
15th century.

So there.

--jns
Xref: sparky soc.motss:52122 alt.politics.homosexuality:7926
From: scott@bbx.basis.com (Scott Amspoker)
Newsgroups: soc.motss,alt.politics.homosexuality
Subject: Re: Call/Fax/Write Fernandez
Date: 13 Dec 92 03:56:47 GMT
Article-I.D.: bbx.134
Organization: BASIS International, Ltd., Albuquerque NM USA

In article <1gbg23INN1or@hp-col.col.hp.com> smithw@col.hp.com (Walter Smith) writes:
>I still feel that this is an overworked and misapplied word.  A phobia
>is a FEAR of something.

A "phobia" is defined as an irrational fear, aversion, or hatred of
something.  Look it up in a dictionary if you don't believe me.

>But homosexuals use it for 'fear', 'dislike',
>or whatever.

Heterosexuals use it that way too.  Turn on the TV if you don't believe
me.

>Dislike of blacks just because they are black is racISM,
>not racOPHOBIA.

Racism appears to be largely based on fear.  "Racophobia" would
actually be a reasonable term to describe it.  It just didn't
happen.  I suppose "xenophobia" pretty much covers all bases.
The fact is, some people get freaked out when dealing with
homosexuality.  Call it what you want.  This doesn't mean that
*all* people who hate homosexuals are "fearful".  They might
simply be evil.

>Accusing someone of being afraid of you just because 
>they don't find your sexual preference 'natural' only serves to add a 
>sense of hysteria to the situation, and alienate furthur.

Since homosexuality is natural, someone would have to begin with
a fundamental, anti-homosexual axiom to derive conclusions that
are contrary to what is plainly observable.  To literally define
"nature" around a hatred is the tail wagging the dog.  I don't 
understand the big deal about something being "natural".  Murder is 
a natural thing but I would hardly call it a good thing.  A person's 
sexual orientation is either chosen or it's not.  If someone believes 
that homosexuals chose to be homosexual then they must also believe 
that heterosexuals also made a choice.  To belive otherwise would suggest 
that only those who were able to choose, chose to be homosexual.

Hardcore homophobes have worked very hard to make sure
I fully understand that they will never, never, ever accept
homosexuals under any circumstance.  I have grown to accept their
claim.  Therefore, any attempt to deal with homophobes will
fail if depends on reason.

>Should I call
>a homosexual person who dislikes fundies fundieOPHOBIC?

Probably not.  A "phobia" is irrational by definition.  Homosexuals 
have very rational and defineable reasons for disliking fundies.

>Straight people
>I know basically roll their eyes and turn off when the 'ohpobic' word 
>starts getting thrown around. 

Their loss.  Some straight people think that they're doing homosexuals
a big favor by being tolerant.  I think straight people are doing
*themselves* a much bigger favor by being tolerant.  It makes them
better human beings and less of a pathetic joke.

-- 
Scott Amspoker                       |    
Basis International, Albuquerque, NM |  Too bad ignorance isn't really
                                     |  bliss.  Then it could be outlawed.
scott@bbx.basis.com                  |
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: TMCCART3@ua1vm.ua.edu
Subject: Re: Woman-to-woman nude body-to-body contact.
Organization: The University of Alabama, Tuscaloosa
Date: Tue, 15 Dec 1992 17:52:08 GMT

I wanted to do this days ago, but network outages have kept me off the
.net for about three days. I want to apologize to Greg Parkinson for my
reaction to his question about what lesbians do in sex clubs. I may
have misuderstood where he was coming from. A poster pointed out quite
aptly that there are certain mores to these clubs that may differ be-
tween male and female settings and that those mores are of cultural in-
terest and not a matter of titillation. Greg's question was framed in terms
of specific sexual acts, pointing out that men have oral sex, and more
rarely, protected anal sex (I'm paraphrasing because I don't have his
specific terminology before me), so I thought he was asking about specifics.
And perhaps even if he was, it shouldn't have mattered. He was trying to
start a dialogue, and I cut him off at the knees. For the record, I am
not alone in my initial reaction to the question, but other women had the
good sense to do what I should have done and keep their remarks to them-
selves.
 
I also regret that Greg's name was taken in vain in another thread. None
of this is fair to him, and again, I apologize. When I am better able to
articulate my feelings -- I obviously haven't done too well so far -- I
may attempt again. But probably not. (Greg, come back...)
 
Tracey
Xref: sparky soc.motss:52089 alt.politics.homosexuality:7903
From: smithw@col.hp.com (Walter Smith)
Newsgroups: soc.motss,alt.politics.homosexuality
Subject: Re: Call/Fax/Write Fernandez
Date: 12 Dec 1992 21:23:17 GMT
Organization: Colorado Springs IT Center
NNTP-Posting-Host: fajita19.cs.itc.hp.com

Note: please direct followups to: alt.politics.homosexuality

pettit@cs.unc.edu (Cynthia Pettit) writes:
> When do we start teaching children to tolerate?
> Well, I guess first grade is too young.  I mean, 6-year-olds are too young to
> understand that tolerence is wrong...  <sardonic tone>
> 
> Cyn

Cyn,

Still amazed at how many people get this from what I said, when I've
over and over said that they should be taught *all* people are valuable
and should be honored and respected, even if they are different from 
you, or you disagree with some of what they do.  Saying that I don't 
think "Heather has 2 Mommies" should be made part of the first-grade 
curriculum means I think tolerence should not be taught?  hardly.  
If you want to take issue with what I say, fine.  But dont attribute 
*your* imagination to what I am saying.  Do we need to teach "daddy
and his roommate sleep together" to teach tolerance? 

 
Walter Smith
smithw@cs.itc.hp.com
From: dyer@spdcc.com (Steve Dyer)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: Castro Street (Re: Two threads: women posting and "cures" and its spinoffs)
Date: 17 Dec 92 04:34:12 GMT
Organization: S.P. Dyer Computer Consulting, Cambridge MA

In article <1992Dec16.171114.1925@panix.com> mara@panix.com (Mara Chibnik) writes:
>I want to say for the record that I don't see Steve as misogynistic
>at all.  He has described himself as "homosocial," and I read an
>article of his not long ago in which he described himself as not
>inclined to get emotionally involved with women.
>that it may be precisely on account of the lack of emotional
>connections he has toward women that Steve is meticulous in
>rejecting misogyny and in taking others to task in soc.motss for
>expressing it.

I don't think I'd disagree too much with what you said, but it sounds
awfully bloodless.  After all, I'm using words to explain a fact (I don't
have many close female friends, though I am certainly friendly with women),
and not to attempt any explanation for same.

Perhaps I just haven't found the right woman yet. :-) :-)

-- 
Steve Dyer
dyer@ursa-major.spdcc.com aka {ima,harvard,rayssd,linus,m2c}!spdcc!dyer
Xref: sparky soc.motss:52952 soc.bi:16776
From: black@lester.sybase.com (Chris Black)
Newsgroups: soc.motss,soc.bi
Subject: Re: NOTICE - Details of the March on Washington
Date: 17 Dec 92 18:42:40 GMT

In article <Bz7wMr.3J2@news.udel.edu>, seamus@ravel.udel.edu (James G Dilmore) writes:

|> I think that the original poster(sorry I can't remember your name)
|> had a valid point on the issue of dilution.  With so many ideas on 
|> the same platform, could the issues get confused?

I'm not real worried.  The platform is pretty complex, but I trust the
media to simplify things for the public eye.  [1/2 8^)]  It will be seen
by most people as a march for gay and lesbian rights.

Similarly, the national political parties have far-reaching platforms,
but for most people, the presidential election was about 3 or 4 issues.

-- Chris
black@sybase.com
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: mike@gordian.com (Michael A. Thomas)
Subject: Re: Parking (was Re: Castro Street (Re: Two threads ... ))
Organization: Gordian; Costa Mesa, CA
Date: Sat, 12 Dec 1992 03:31:48 GMT

In article <Bz4Evr.2C7@unix.amherst.edu>, twpierce@unix.amherst.edu (Tim Pierce) writes:
> In article <1992Dec11.235044.18018@osf.org> coren@speed.osf.org (Robert Coren) writes:
> >Which is extraordinary, considering how difficult it is in
> >Massachusetts to get a ticket for a moving violation while driving a
> >car.
> 
> Growl.  The last one I got was for an expired inspection sticker.  At
> thirty miles an hour, he saw it.  Don't these people have anything
> better to do with their time?

  Well, there's only so many donuts that even a cop can eat...
-- 

		Michael Thomas	(mike@gordian.com)
	"I don't think Bambi Eyes will get you that flame thrower..."  
		-- Hobbes to Calvin
		USnail: 20361 Irvine Ave Santa Ana Heights, Ca,	92707-5637
		PaBell: (714) 850-0205 (714) 850-0533 (fax)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: jarvis@psych.toronto.edu (Brian Jarvis)
Subject: Indianapolis!
Organization: Department of Psychology, University of Toronto
Distribution: na
Date: Wed, 16 Dec 1992 22:53:51 GMT

Friday morning, I'll be flying into Indianapolis, the last of my U.S.
visits for 1992.  So far this year, I have visited Buffalo, Detroit,
Denver, L.A., San Francisco, Boston and Memphis; Indianapolis will
represent the last gasp of my travel budget for the next decade,

I'll be staying with Chuck Daube, the interpreter for the Indianapolis
Men's Chorus and will certainly be attending their xmas concert next
Sunday.  Any other motsseurs/motsseuses going to be present?

Travel & sight-seeing tips would be appreciated.

Brian
-- 

Brian A. Jarvis,          Rm. 4026, Sidney Smith Hall, Dept. of Psychology,
jarvis@psych.toronto.edu  University of Toronto, Toronto, Ontario, Canada
System Administrator      M5S 1A1  (416) 978-3948
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: tom@flood.com (Tom Chatt)
Subject: Re: Coming out at work - HELP!
Organization: The Flood Group, Inc.  Torrance, Ca.
Date: Sun, 20 Dec 92 00:55:54 GMT

lazarus@wixer.cactus.org (Michael Lax) writes:
| Well, last night was the office Christmas party. [...]
| [...]                     Any ideas, history or suggestions about being
| out at work in a _very_ small (9 employees) company (which does have an
| anti-discrimination policy)?  Thanks in advance for the support.

Good for you for being out at the Christmas party!

I work for a company of about the same size as yours. I was the 6th
to join; we're up to 15 now. It was that last parenthetical comment
that I tripped over: a *policy*? Your company has a *policy*?

If you work for a 9-person company that has a written anti-discrimination
policy that includes sexual orientation, then you *know* you're
working in a gay-positive place. While I've gotten our company
president to agree to DP benefits (in principle; we currently have
no takers :-( ), that "policy" consists of making a statement at
an all-hands staff meeting. We don't even have a written policy
manual.

A company of your size does not have written policies unless one of
two things happened: (1) people at the company have written down some
policies which most people in the company have actually read and
discussed; or (2) somebody bought one of those "off-the-shelf"
company policy manual kits. And if it was (2), I don't think most
of those have any policies about sexual orientation. So, if your
company of 9 people has a sexual orientation *policy*, it must
be because somebody there actually gave it some thought.

It sounds to me like you have nothing bad to look forward to
from this company!

-- 
Tom Chatt                        \   Don't take offense, take action.
Internet: tom@flood.com           \    Speak up. When we remain silent,
UUCP: ...!uunet!flood!tom        / \     we oppress ourselves.
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: TMCCART3@ua1vm.ua.edu
Subject: Re: When Lesbians Kiss
Organization: Home of the @&#^%$* Crimson Tide
Date: Thu, 17 Dec 1992 00:25:39 GMT

In article <1gmm2cINNfar@roche.csl.sri.com>
kmac@cisco.com (Karl MacRae) writes:
 
>
>        Heard on Rossane tonight:
>
>
>
>                "Whenever lesbians kiss, another angel gets it's wings..."
>
I know *I* hear 'em... : )
>
>        That show has gotten *cool*!
>
>
>                -Karl
>
Yeah, it has; I'm still waiting for Darlene to come out, though. Then she
and Nancy, is it?, and Aunt Jackie can go cruising for babes together...
 
Tracey
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: rdonahue@spdcc.com (Bob Donahue)
Subject: Re: Soc.Motss.*
Organization: insert anything here
Date: Wed, 16 Dec 1992 15:09:01 GMT

	Superior (IMHO) suggestions:

	soc.motss[.misc]
	soc.motss.info (moderated)
	soc.motss.current

	We could learn a LOT from the rec.arts.startrek reorg.  They
did a 4-way split so that most of the traffic fell among 3 of the groups
(r.a.s.tech gets has a smaller share) and the split has worked
well: there isn't *that* much cross-posting between them and the
predictions of how the volume would break down came pretty close
to the reality.

	Reviewing Jess' (and other) suggestions:

	soc.motss.misc - fine by me - I don't think there is a
requirement that "soc.motss" *has* to be rmgrouped if there's a
reorg, I could be wrong.

	soc.motss.info - I agree with Nelson, not with Jess here.
"Vague"?  Hardly.  First there are lots of *.info groups already in 
existence.  Aside from the fact that "info" is pretty descriptive
one can at least look at other *.info groups as a guide.  Of course
one could just READ s.m.i and see for oneself.  Since it would be moderated
(and Jess, at least 6 people to my knowledge including myself have
volunteered for that position every time it has come up), the 
signal-to-noise ratio high - it would be self-evident what the group was for,
thereby mollifying any ambiguity or "vagueness".

	soc.motss.current - (for items of interest to the GBLO*-community)
This I see as the spilloff for s.m.i (since s.m.i is moderated) and
that news events would spark discussion.  One thing that would
be nice is for all.most s.m.i articles to have the Followup-To:
line set to s.m.c (if that's possible) and let nature take it's course.
The way I see it (having read s.m for 4.5 years, and I don't think have
missed a day) the postings fall into two broad categories: social
and information/discussion.  All the camp, banter, dish, culture
fit nicely into soc.motss[.misc] (I'd be happy with soc.motss.culture,
I suppose), and all the discussion/debate on topics (which usually
stem from some current event) on soc.motss.current.

	I would also be happy to see s.m.c used as an experiment in
passive moderation (if that could be set up)...  If that ever happened,
I suppose that one would need to set up a soc.motss.d or a mailing
list for such. (See my previous post for a description of passive
moderation).

	While I like Jess' idea for a soc.motss.caring, etc.  I just
don't see it solving any of the problems we're currently facing.
It would only get maybe 5% of the bandwidth, leaving the other 95%
pretty much as it is.  Now I would have no problem including it
along with a more general split as outlined above for the purposes
of providing (hopefully) low-noise support for people.

	
BBC
From: carlton@husc11.harvard.edu (david carlton)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: Why don't more women post? (was Re: An "enlightening" experience)
Date: 13 Dec 92 04:25:10 GMT
 <168B911FD6.TMCCART3@ua1vm.ua.edu> <1992Dec11.030655.12452@samba.oit.unc.edu> <thaaang.724047835@cwis>
Organization: Citizens for Boysenberry Jam
In-reply-to: thaaang@cwis.unomaha.edu's message of Fri, 11 Dec 1992 04:23:55 GMT

In article <thaaang.724047835@cwis>, thaaang@cwis.unomaha.edu (John Dorrance) writes:

> John, who wonders why Season hasn't noticed yet that *all* free
> prizes (from cereal boxes, happy meals...) have gone all to shit

I was pretty amused to get a flip book in a box of Apple Cinnamon
Cheerios the other day.  In fact, it was two flip books in one - if
you turned it over, you got to see something different.  Of course, it
did have its downside - a lot of the action on one of them happened in
about 5 pages, but it still kept me entertained for a while.  Much
better than some dumb ufo sticker, certainly.

Then again, I may be easier to entertain than other people.

david carlton
carlton@husc.harvard.edu

       DIDI...  is that a MARTIAN name, or, are we in ISRAEL?
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: rizzoe@FASECON.ECON.NYU.EDU (Emily Rizzo)
Subject: Re: Top GLB Fiction
Organization: New York University
Date: Fri, 18 Dec 1992 20:27:27 GMT

In article <1gt2biINN5ug@fido.asd.sgi.com> pauli@sgi.com (Paul Isaacs) writes:


>My favorite:

>"Dancer From the Dance"   - anyone remember the author?

Andrew Holleran.  He later wrote  a good collection of essays called
"Ground Zero" about coping with AIDS, makes a very sobering contrast to his 
earlier novel.

Emily
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: dyer@spdcc.com (Steve Dyer)
Subject: Re: Castro Street (Re: Two threads: women posting and "cures" and its spinoffs)
Organization: S.P. Dyer Computer Consulting, Cambridge MA
Date: Sat, 12 Dec 1992 19:01:29 GMT

In article <1992Dec12.171144.26141@panix.com> mara@panix.com (Mara Chibnik) writes:
>What do you mean by out of line, Steve?  I don't really agree with
>Tracey either.  But-- having read her article on the entertainment
>offered at the (mixed) gay bar she frequents-- I do have a certain
>amount of sympathy with her sense of oppression.

Well, I have no quarrel with that article or her feelings there.
We weren't discussing that.  Interestingly, Ailsa just posted on
ne.motss looking for just such a space in the Boston area (which
as far as I know, doesn't exist.)  I'm sure the "meaning" of such
mixed space would be different in Alabama than it is here.

>Steve, Greg was uncharacteristically hesitant in asking the question. 
>I think Tracey misread his tone if not his question, and I'm sorry that 
>he hit Tracey's nerve that way.  But I also don't think that your
>reaction is going to encourage women to post on the grounds that
>they're welcome here.  

It wasn't intended to encourage women to post; it was intended to
treat Tracey the same way I treat anyone making really outrageous
claims.  Her article pissed me off: it dismissed what _is_ discussed
here by people who happen to be interested whatever it is they discuss.
Sorry, if someone comes in with a "fuck you" attitude towards this
space that strikes me as unwarranted, she's going to get that back.
This is an "equal opportunity 'fuck you'."

>If it was new five years ago and it's still pervasive, maybe it's
>time to figure out why it's not changing.  Unless, of course, it has
>changed?  This may be a regional thing.  Someone (gay, male) just
>commented to me recently that he was appalled that, where he is,
>guys who have described themselves as "bending over backwards" (this
>is not to be confused with "assuming the posture") to encourage
>lesbians to get into leadership positions are now lamenting their
>success, claiming that women are keeping the men out.

This is a frequent comment from gay men when women begin to approach
anything like parity in an organization.  I have no problem with
discussing this (one more time, by the way) or other issues of misogyny
in the gay male community, but it's either going to be in an atmosphere
of discussion or one of polarization, and the participants get to set
the terms of that discussion.

-- 
Steve Dyer
dyer@ursa-major.spdcc.com aka {ima,harvard,rayssd,linus,m2c}!spdcc!dyer
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: jackies@fc.hp.com (Jackie Sheddy X6958)
Subject: testing 1...2...3
Date: Thu, 17 Dec 1992 12:50:36 GMT
Organization: Hewlett-Packard Fort Collins Site
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1.3 PL6]


Just checking it out .... thanks for listening!

--
Peace,

Jackie
jackies@hpxxx.fc.hp.com
Hate is NOT a Family Value!!

Newsgroups: soc.motss