From: dbarker@spang.Camosun.BC.CA (Deryk Barker)
Subject: Re: Is Microsoft the next
Organization: Camosun College, Victoria B.C, Canada
X-Newsreader: Tin 1.1 PL4
Date: Sun, 3 Jan 1993 20:19:02 GMT

ckincy@cs.umr.edu (Charles Kincy) writes:
: In article <1992Dec31.161210.1218@rose.com> robert.heuman@rose.com (robert heuman) writes:
: >
: >I will note, however, that there is a substantial difference between 
: >the US and Canada when it comes to MRI and other high-tech, high 
: >expense facilities.  In Canada ALL treatment hospitals are PUBLIC and 
: >are expected to share high-cost facilities, rather than buy their own 
: >where the volumes do not warrent.  In the US there are a lot of high 
: >tech set-ups, but primarily at PRIVATE hospitals, and the charges for 
: >their use are exorbitant.  Check out the PUBLIC hospitals and see if 
: >the ratio of MRIs and CTScanners is any higher than in Canada.  I 
: >rather doubt it.
: 
: Hey, ok, I will grant this point to you...but:
: 
: >There is one last point to be made.  Canada is larger than the US with 
: >approximately 10% of the population of the US.  In addition, most of 
: 
: Right.  See, this is the problem.  Canada has about the same population
: as California.  What makes you think that the US tax base is capable
: of providing medical care for almost 300 million people?

Never heard of economies of scale? The larger population should be
*more*  easily supported.
: 
: [...]
: 
: >BTW, my son's total treatment for osteogenic sarcoma cost me C$56.00 
: >including 4 operations, regular MRIs and CTScans, chemotherapy, 
: 
: It cost you more than that.  What is your GST rate up there?  20%?

Ah, another example of how much the US knows about it's northern
neighbour. The GST is 7% in Canada.

: Not to mention all the other taxes you are paying.  How much in
: taxes do you pay, sir?  How much of it do you think is going towards
: your "inexpensive" medical care?

Canadians believe in spreading the load among those who can pay.
: 
: BTW, I hope your son got better.
: 
: [...]
: 
: >possible insurance would be bankrupt by now.  Even with good 
: >insurance at the start, their employer, particularly if small, would 
: >have been dropped from a group plan insurer within a year or so, 
: >leaving the parent or patient without coverage.  Seems to happen with 
: >a fair degree of regularity in the US.... CANNOT happen in Canada.
: 
: CANNOT?  What happens if your country falls upon hard times?  Then
: what?
: 
: Now that we've examined a few problems with the Canadian system,
: let me suggest that what works in Canada probably will not work in
: the US.  A nationalized health care system increases exponentially
: in cost as the population increases.  

Where is your proof for this ridiculous suggestion? The US already
spends the highest percentage of GNP on health care of any country in
the world, *without* a national system. And, arguably, the majority of
people get less for it.

:  
: Canada's system works great for 30 million people.  It would be a
: disaster if it were applied to 300 million people.  You can take
: that to the bank.

Where do you get this notion from? Let's have something even
approaching justification please.

: Besides, the US government is a lot less centralized than the 
: Canadian government is.  It's designed to be inefficient.  Unfortunately,
: that means socialized health care in the US would cost oh, so much
: more.

'Designed to be inefficient'????? Do you think that wes really what
the founding fathers had in mind?


: Americans are already taxed into oblivion with nothing to show for it.
: Our roads are crap, our people aren't fed, or clothed, or employed,
: or cared for, and so forth.  Do you seriously think the US government
: could effectively handle health care administration?  Didn't think so.
: 
: Actually, the government is to blame for our problems, because they
: interfere far too much.  Overregulation costs the health care industry
: trillions of dollars per year.  I say totally deregulate it and watch
: costs plummet. 

Or rather, watch a significant proportion of health care organisations
do as the airlines did - go bankrupt and leave people with no health
care at all.

: At least reform insurance companies and force them to
: compete, and post severe penalties for fraud.  [I mean *severe*, like
: 100x the amount of money involved in the fraud for fines, with no 
: maximum].  Disband the FDA.  That would reduce health costs
: enormously.

Whjy not just bring back Thalidomide while you're at it?

: Trying to use a Canadian solution to an American problem is laughable.
: 
: Another thing to be considered:  Canada has little in the way of 
: military.  I wonder how well Canada's health care system would work
: if it didn't rely on America for defense?

Canada, sir, is providing 10% of *all* the UN peace-keeping forces
worldwide - both higher in absolute terms and higher in proportion
than any other country - including your own, which still owes the UN
$500million in dues.

Who the hell do you claim to be protecting us *from*?

--
Real:  Deryk Barker, Computer Science Dept., Camosun College, Victoria B.C.
Email: (dbarker@spang.camosun.bc.ca)
Phone: +1 604 370 4452
Newsgroups: comp.os.os2.advocacy