HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: cmtan@iss.nus.sg (Tan Chade Meng - with Dan)
Subject: Buddhism and the Absolute God
Organization: Institute Of Systems Science, NUS
X-Newsreader: Tin 1.1 PL4
Date: Wed, 27 Jan 1993 06:32:21 GMT


Buddhism and the Absolute God

Buddhism is a "Godless" or atheist religion (see posting: Buddhism - A
Religion of Atheists?).  So, what does Buddhism have to say about an
Absolute God?  There is a satire in the Buddhist scriptures that
illustrates the Buddhist attitude towards the Almighty.  Satires are
quite common among Buddist scriptures as the Buddha was known to have
a good sense of humor.  Below is the satire (caution: don't accept
it literally, it's meant to be a story):

Once, the Buddha was visited by a High deva (deva == Heavenly Being) who
happened to be one of the Kings of the Heavens.  They exchanged greetings
and the King said, "I am All-powerful!".
Buddha : "That's very good, but what can you do?"
King   : "I can move mountains and seas, I can cause great storms, I can
         create earthquakes, I can ......... (etc, all the things most
         people say God can do)".
Buddha : "That's good.  But tell me King, what happens to a man who
         indulges in virtue?"
King   : "He goes to Heaven and enjoys the fruits of his actions".
Buddha : "And what happens to a man who indulges in evil?"
King   : "He goes to Hell and suffers the fruits of his actions".
Buddha : "Can you change that?"
King   : "No, I can't."
Buddha : "Can you anhiliate all sufferings in the world?"
King   : "No, I can't."
Buddha : "In that case, you are not All-powerful."


CHADE MENG
From: pub@riscee.pko.dec.com (Publius)
Newsgroups: talk.religion.misc
Subject: Re: JESUS IS GOD
Date: 21 Jan 93 19:13:54 GMT
Organization: Digital Equipment Corporation, Maynard MA

In article <1993Jan21.181245.26932@ucl.ac.uk> ucakrvb@ucl.ac.uk (Vijay Bhuchar) writes:
>
>Actually, the last two decades have seen a massive increase in the 
>number of 'Messianics' (Jewish Christians).  Most of them ARE grateful
>for Gentile witnessing.

And the Gentile Christians should be grateful to the Messianics for
restoring the Jewish root of Christianity, which, for centuries,
has been neglected or ignored.   


Regards,
-- 
For Christ and His Kingdom
-- Publius
Disclaimer: These opinions are mine, all mine, mine alone.
Newsgroups: talk.religion.misc
From: ae642@yfn.ysu.edu (Kelley Miller)
Subject: Re: Christian pro-choice
Reply-To: ae642@yfn.ysu.edu (Kelley Miller)
Organization: St. Elizabeth Hospital, Youngstown, OH
Date: Wed, 27 Jan 1993 20:31:20 GMT


In a previous article, mmeyer@m2.dseg.ti.com (Mark Meyer) says:

>In article <C14B8K.L7r@athena.cs.uga.edu> hudson@athena.cs.uga.edu (Paul Hudson Jr) writes:
>>Is there anyone on here who is pro-choice who has neither had an abortion,
>>paid for one, or encouraged someone else to have one?
>
>	Me too!
>

Here's another one.

In fact, I have actively counciled two people against abortion, but respected
their decision and their right to have one.

You see, Paul, I am one of those people you say cannot exist:

Anti-abortion AND pro-choice.



-- 
*...your Friendly Neighborhood Atheist  /\/\   These are the REAL  *         
*  ae642@yfn.ysu.edu/Kelley L. Miller  / /__\      Gay 90's!!      *           
*-------------------------------------/____\-----------------------*  
********A myth is still a myth, no matter how many believe it*******
Organization: Doctoral student, Physics, Carnegie Mellon, Pittsburgh, PA
Newsgroups: talk.religion.misc,alt.messianic
Date: Sat, 23 Jan 1993 22:19:09 -0500 
From: Steven Timm <st0o+@andrew.cmu.edu>
Subject: Re: Length of years (was Re: ***MoJ: Proof 1: The Amazing Prophecy***)

Those who wish to make the prophecy of the 70 weeks of Daniel 9:24-27
fit the Messiahship of Jesus often make it much harder on themselves
than necessary by believing that (1) the 70'th week is pushed off to 
some far space near the end of time and (2) the 69 weeks (or 70) should
end at the Cross.  

The phrase "in the midst of the week He shall cause the sacrifice and 
oblation to cease" (vs. 26) refers to Jesus' death on the cross in the 
middle of the 70th week, AD31, the 70th week of years actually ends 
in AD34, at which point Peter receives the vision to send the gospel 
to the Gentiles.

Steve Timm
From: walsha@iccgcc.decnet.ab.com (It ain't what they call you, it's what you answer to. -Bill Clinton)
Newsgroups: talk.religion.misc
Subject: Re: I feel threatened by Christianity...
Date: 22 Jan 93 16:22:30 EST

In article <1993Jan11.221419.9773@iscsvax.uni.edu>, sperry2699@iscsvax.uni.edu writes:
> In article <1993Jan11.214149.22353@netcom.com>, bskendig@netcom.com (Brian Kendig) writes:
>> I just saw part of Pat Robertson's TV show "The 700 Club" for the
>> first time today while I was home on my lunch break, 

welcome to America's Funniest Brainwashing Videos.

Newsgroups: talk.religion.misc
From: pmy@vivaldi.acc.virginia.edu (Pete Yadlowsky)
Subject: Re: The Founding of a Great Nation ...
Organization: University of Virginia
Date: Fri, 22 Jan 1993 21:20:42 GMT

Jim Burrill writes

>      The United States was founded by Christians, as a Christian Nation

Agreeing for the sake of argument...

"Tough." say today's American atheists, buddhists, hindus, muslims,
jews, sikhs, shamans... "It ain't christian as long as we're here,
paying taxes and voting, and we're not going away. Get used to it." 

--
Peter M. Yadlowsky              |  Wake! The sky is light!
Academic Computing Center       | Let us to the Net again...
University of Virginia          |    Companion keyboard.
pmy@Virginia.EDU                |                      - after Basho
Xref: sparky talk.religion.misc:27605 alt.atheism:27033 soc.culture.jewish:26129
Organization: Bar-Ilan University Computing Center, Israel
Date: Tue, 26 Jan 1993 09:33:54 IST
From: Joel Goldberg <F66289@BARILVM.BITNET>
Newsgroups: talk.religion.misc,alt.atheism,soc.culture.jewish
Subject: Re: Child abuse ordered by G-d
 <1993Jan24.052500.9493@cs.tulane.edu> <1993Jan25.154032.25642@gboro.rowan.edu>
 <1993Jan25.163519.20169@porthos.cc.bellcore.com>

In article:
<1993Jan25.163519.20169@porthos.cc.bellcore.com>
lhsux@swingset.bae.bellcore.com (Lorne Schachter)
Writes:

>As far as the Spanish Expulsion goes, even the Christian Bible does not
>say anywhere that it is a Divine command to kill non-believers.  Therefore,
>Ferdinand and Isabella were taking into their own hands a decision that
>they had no right to make.  That is what makes it completely
>objectionable.

  The Rabbis made a decree that someone who rides a horse on shabbat
is liable for the death penalty. They did this based on legislative
authority granted to them by the halachic system. Ferdinand and Isabella,
who ruled by the divine right of kings, had similar authority granted
to them by the Catholic system.

  To deal with David Kaufmann's point, both systems claim to be based
on absolute divine authority. To jusge one claim as being correct and the
other not necessitates either an outside system of evaluation, external
to both systems, or to 'a priori' accept one system's authority, which is
begging the question.
From: c_mcdon@pavo.concordia.ca (MCDONNELL, CATHERINE)
Subject: Re: Peace Symbol
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41    
Organization: Concordia University
Date: Sun, 24 Jan 1993 03:20:00 GMT

In article <1993Jan24.022044.6538@engage.pko.dec.com>, pub@riscee.pko.dec.com (Publius) writes...
>In article <93023.143323IO10184@MAINE.MAINE.EDU> IO10184@MAINE.MAINE.EDU writes:
>>
>>    What a neat coincedance! I just snatched a book from a local
>>bookstore that sheds light on this subject.
> 
>The pagan and occult origin of the sign of cross was well-known to the
>early Puritans.  In New England, you can still find many historic
>church buildings dated back to the Puritan days, and in NONE of them
>can you find the sign of cross.
> 
>So, is the "peace symbol" a pagan and occult symbol?  Of course it is,
>for it was derived from the sign of cross, which was one of the most
>ancient pagan and occult symbols in human history.

The peace symbol may very well evoke pagan or Christian symbols, but
Cecil Adams in _More of the Straight Dope_ has the facts:

"The design for the familiar crow's-foot-in-a-circle we know as the
peace symbol was completed February 21, 1958, by British commercial
artist Gerald Holtom. Holtom had been commissioned by the Campaign for
Nuclear Disarmament, headed by philosopher Bertrand Russell. [...]
It was a combination of the semaphore signals for N and D, standing
for Nuclear Disarmament."

Voila.


Kate

Newsgroups: talk.religion.misc
From: mlfidler@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (Michael L Fidler Jr)
Subject: Re: Getting to know God, was God is NOT Allah was Re: Islam at a Glanc
Organization: The Ohio State University
Date: Fri, 22 Jan 1993 21:27:41 GMT

Dingleberries?
From: slhw4@cc.usu.edu (Jason Hunsaker)
Newsgroups: talk.religion.misc
Subject: Re: Summary, Trinity vs LDS View fo the Godhead
Date: 23 Jan 93 16:06:27 MDT
Organization: Utah State University

In article <1993Jan19.013019.23621@pslu1.psl.wisc.edu>,
 johnson@whitewater.chem.wisc.edu (Art Johnson) writes:
> tensmekl@infonode.ingr.com (Kermit Tensmeyer) writes:
> 
>>  It is one position not two. (and to quote a recent star trek
>>  episode, there are only four lights, your claims to five light
>>  notwithstanding)
>> 
>      Sometimes, Kermit. Sometimes there are five. Sometimes
> there are   three. Sometimes there are all of them at once. You
> must try harder. It is not easy to become sane. :-)

Well, after watching the Star Trek:TNG episode "Coming of Age"
I can can't help but wonder if Tony Rose and Mr. Remmick went to
the same school.  :-)

-----------------------------------------------------------------
Jason Hunsaker  -|-  Logan, Utah  -|-  Internet: slhw4@cc.usu.edu
Newsgroups: talk.religion.misc,alt.religion.all-worlds
Newsgroups: talk.religion.misc
Subject: international response needed
From: mscs240@vax1.mankato.msus.edu
Date: 24 Jan 93 15:55:19 -0600
Organization: Mankato State University

I need someone to send me electronic mail for this computer class I am enrolled
in.  The only requirement is that the mail must be from a country outside the 
United States.  So someone please send me some mail!  Thanks in advance!  My 
user id is mscs240.
From: iad@cogsci.ed.ac.uk (Ivan A Derzhanski)
Newsgroups: talk.religion.misc
Subject: Re: Athletes thanking Jesus for victory
Date: 24 Jan 93 11:02:51 GMT
Organization: Centre for Cognitive Science, Edinburgh, UK

In article <80902@hydra.gatech.EDU> rpitts@cerl.gatech.edu (Richard Pitts) writes:
>In article <C0xCvA.653@acsu.buffalo.edu> v22964qs@ubvmsd.cc.buffalo.edu (Mike Cluff) writes:
>>In article <80337@hydra.gatech.EDU>, rpitts@cerl.gatech.edu (Richard Pitts) writes...
>>>What standard (arbitrary or not) could you support or perform within?  
>>
>>We've been through this one before...  Perhaps a system where sin wasn't 
>>possible would be nice.  
>
>Are you suggesting a system without freewill and so we'd be robots?

Why not?  Why is it better to be a slave than to be a robot?  What do
we gain from our ability to sin (conveniently called "free will") if
we are prohibited from exercising it, for fear of hell fire?  What
would you call the father who buys his child a pack of cigarettes and
a lighter, places them in his hands, explains to him how smoking is
done and then says `but if you ever do that, I'll skin you alive'?

But it is not even necessary for there to be no free will.  We don't
do everything that we are free to do, do we?  I have the free will to
jump out of the window, but I don't take advantage of it.  I am not
attracted by this option.  Why is "sin" attractive?

>Adam was able to be in the presence of God until
>he fell - after that he was ashamed - he had sinned.

Rubbish.  He was ashamed of the shape the old fellow had given him.
He says something about being naked.  It takes an idiot to conceive of
such a thing, but what do you expect from the Bible?

>Eve was decieved, but Adam just ate.  What did Adam lack that he needed
>to eat the fruit?  He had all he needed physically.

Physically, yes.  But we don't live on bread alone.  Our behaviour is
driven by other stimuli, which can be stronger than the physical ones.

>God was his friend. 

Boy, I prefer a thousand mortal enemies to one friend like this.

-- 
 `D'ye mind tellin me whit the two o ye are gaun oan aboot?' (The Glasgow
Ivan A Derzhanski  (iad@cogsci.ed.ac.uk; iad@chaos.cs.brandeis.edu)    Gospel)
* Centre for Cognitive Science,  2 Buccleuch Place,  Edinburgh EH8 9LW,  UK
* Cowan House, Pollock Halls, 18 Holyrood Park Road, Edinburgh EH16 5BD, UK
Newsgroups: talk.religion.misc,alt.pagan,alt.folklore.urban
From: system@kalki33.lakes.trenton.sc.us (Kalki Dasa)
Newsgroups: talk.religion.misc
Subject: Bhagavad-Gita 1.39
Date: 27 Jan 93 03:21:51 GMT
Organization: Kalki's Infoline BBS, Aiken, SC, USA


                                TEXT 39

                        kula-ksaye pranasyanti
                         kula-dharmah sanatanah
                      dharme naste kulam krtsnam
                         adharmo 'bhibhavaty uta

  
kula-ksaye--in destroying the family; pranasyanti--become vanquished;
kula-dharmah--the family traditions; sanatanah--eternal;
dharme--religion; naste--being destroyed; kulam--family;
krtsnam--whole; adharmah--irreligion; abhibhavati--transforms; uta--it
is said.

    
                              TRANSLATION

	With the destruction of dynasty, the eternal family tradition is
vanquished, and thus the rest of the family becomes involved in
irreligion.

  
                                PURPORT

	In the system of the varnasrama institution there are many
principles of religious traditions to help members of the family grow
properly and attain spiritual values. The elder members are responsible
for such purifying processes in the family, beginning from birth to
death. But on the death of the elder members, such family traditions of
purification may stop, and the remaining younger family members may
develop irreligious habits and thereby lose their chance for spiritual
salvation. Therefore, for no purpose should the elder members of the
family be slain.

Bhagavad-Gita As It Is
Books of A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami


       ---------------------------------------------------------
      |                Don't forget to chant:                   |
      |                                                         |
      |  Hare Krishna Hare Krishna, Krishna Krishna Hare Hare   |
      |       Hare Rama Hare Rama, Rama Rama Hare Hare          |
      |                                                         |
      |    Kalki's Infoline BBS Aiken, South Carolina, USA      |
      |           (kalki@kalki33.lakes.trenton.sc.us)           |
       ---------------------------------------------------------
Newsgroups: talk.religion.misc
From: hall@boi.hp.com ()
Subject: Re: MORMONISM VS. THE BIBLE (The Doctrine of God)
Date: Thu, 28 Jan 1993 01:36:01 GMT
Organization: Hewlett-Packard / Boise, Idaho
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1.4 PL6]

Mr. DeCenso,

If my memory serves me well, this same post appeared in trm
not too long ago.  If so, why are you reposting the very same base
note as before?

H. V. Leifson
Newsgroups: talk.religion.misc
From: jburrill@boi.hp.com (Jim Burrill)
Subject: Re: VERIFYING CHRISTIANITY #1
Date: Wed, 27 Jan 1993 16:13:18 GMT
Organization: Hewlett-Packard / Boise, Idaho
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1.8 PL6]

Eric Sieferman (sieferme@stein.u.washington.edu) wrote:
: In article <1993Jan26.154824.18539@news.ysu.edu> af664@yfn.ysu.edu (Frank DeCenso, Jr.) writes:
: >
: >Yet from it's first book (Genesis) to it's last (Revelation), it is in
: >  COMPLETE harmony in it's major subject - God's redemption of man.
: 
: Huh?  The question of "redemption" hardly ever appears in the OT,
: the major part of the Bible.  And the prescription for
: "redemption", such as it is, is to repent and behave
: better (eg, Book of Jonah).

Eric apparently has never read the 53rd chapter of Isaiah. I'd suggest he read
the entire book of Isaiah, then come and re-evaluate his statement about
redemption. Much of this book ,as well as many other of the prophets, tell
about the coming of the Messiah.
From: brian@lpl.arizona.edu (Brian Ceccarelli 602/621-9615)
Newsgroups: talk.religion.misc
Subject: Re: Simple Question
Date: 22 Jan 93 16:24:20 GMT
Organization: Lunar & Planetary Laboratory, Tucson AZ.

In article <1993Jan22.032036.19118@nuscc.nus.sg> cmtan@iss.nus.sg (Tan Chade Meng - with Dan) writes:
>Can someone enlighten me on this question:
>
>If God exists and God is All Powerful and All Loving, why does
>He allow sufferings to exist.  Why did He create humankind with
>the propensity for Greed, Hatred and Delusions and allow us to
>murder and harm each other?
>
>Thanks
>
>C. M. Tan

The God of the Bible exists and is all powerful; however, he
is not all loving.  If this is the God you are referring to,
then your presupposition is in error.  God doesn't love everybody
nor does he love everything.  For starters . . .

Malachi 1:3

    "Was not Esau Jacob's brother?" the Lord says.  "Yet
    I have loved Jacob, but Esau I have hated, . . . ."

Proverbs 6:16

   There are 6 things the Lord hates, 7 that are
   detestable to him:

   haughty eyes, a lying tongue, hands that shed
   innocent blood, a heart that devises wicked
   schemes, feet that are quick to rush into
   evil, a false witness who pours out lies, and
   a man who stirs up dissension among brothers.

Malachi 2:16

   "I hate divorce," says the Lord God of Israel,
   "and I hate a man's covering his wife with
   violence as well as with his garment," says
   the Lord Almighty.


Would you care to rephrase your question? 


Sincerely,



Brian Ceccarelli
----------------
brian@gamma1.lpl.arizona.edu
Xref: sparky talk.religion.misc:27611 alt.pagan:15880 alt.folklore.urban:34871
From: u0d05@keele.ac.uk (PG Herzberg)
Newsgroups: talk.religion.misc,alt.pagan,alt.folklore.urban
Subject: Re: Peace Symbol
Date: 26 Jan 93 12:01:15 GMT
Organization: Keele University, England
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1 PL6]

drieux, just drieux (drieux@wetware.com) wrote:
: haefner@infonode.ingr.com (Mark W. Haefner) writes:
: ] 
: ] Recently several articles have been on the ankh and I thought I would
: ] ask if anyone has information on where the "peace symbol" is derived
: ] from. I have heard that its origins are occultic and was used by some
: ] ancient pagan societies. Is this true? If so, who? Anyone care to 
: ] offer some reliable info?
: 
: 
: Well depends on who you talk to.
: 
: Theory One: the CND [Campaign for Nuclear Disarmament] was
: alledged to have brought it about as a 'signal flag' representation
: of their call letters.
: 
: theory two: {More Probable} Given that the CND folks were lead
: by folks Like Bertrand Russell, who was SOFT on Communism, it
: is CLEARLY a Satanic Kult Ritual Sign indicative of a broken
: Upside down cross used during Black Masses and Communist
: Inner Party Meetings. {Sorry, those are redundently reptative,
: as Black Masses and Communist Inner Party Meetings are one
: and the same thing.}
:
A while ago The Grauniad had something on this in its Notes & Queries
section I haven't got the article with me and neither can I give an
exact reference , but another two explainations are:-

theory three: Apparently it is semaphore. If you split it up into
three component parts you get 0,| and Y(inverted) the O stands for
whole and the other two are semaphore for  N and D (ie total Nuclear
Disarmament). (This sounds very silly I know but it wasn't me who
dreamed it up).

theory four: Well not so much a theory but... It was a symbol of one
of the panzer divisions in WWII and was made the CND/Peace symbol by
someone with a cruel sense of humour. (There were pictures showing
this in the article).

Hope that helps.

Paul Herzberg.

P.S. This is my first post to AFU and I've read the FAQ and have been
reading  AFU for months. Is this unique?
P.P.S As it is my first post can you please go easy on my spelling and
grammar.
Newsgroups: talk.religion.misc
From: bskendig@netcom.com (Brian Kendig)
Newsgroups: talk.religion.misc
Subject: Re: 1/26/93   God's Promise in Isaiah 65:24
Date: 26 Jan 93 20:46:53 GMT
Organization: Starfleet Headquarters: San Francisco

psyrobtw@ubvmsb.cc.buffalo.edu (Robert Weiss) writes:
>
>	And it shall come to pass,
>	that before they call, I will answer;
>	and while they are yet speaking, I will hear.

	unless they fall prey to the temptation of Reason,
	and make the sinful mistake of trying to understand the universe,
	in which case I'll ignore them,
	and I won't have anything to do with them.

-- 
_/_/_/  Brian Kendig                             Je ne suis fait comme aucun
/_/_/  bskendig@netcom.com                de ceux que j'ai vus; j'ose croire
_/_/                            n'etre fait comme aucun de ceux qui existent.
  /  Nolite te bastardes     Si je ne vaux pas mieux, au moins je suis autre.
 /    carborundorum.                                             -- Rousseau
Newsgroups: talk.religion.misc
From: mlee@post.RoyalRoads.ca (Malcolm Lee)
Subject: Re: Athletes thanking Jesus for victory
Organization: Royal Roads Military College, Victoria, B.C.
Date: Fri, 22 Jan 1993 18:46:44 GMT


In article <CINDY.93Jan21204602@solan10.solan.unit.no>, cindy@solan10.solan.unit.no (Cynthia Kandolf) writes:
|> You know, it's not just athletes who thank God/Jesus for their
|> successes.  Actors and actresses do it, too, when presented with
|> awards; same for musicians.
|> 
|> Given the relative lack of success enjoyed by my adoptive countrymen
|> and -women (did that make sense?) in their attempts to succeed in
|> these areas, i feel compelled to ask: what are we doing wrong?  Are we
|> supposed to pay off God or something?  If so, what adress do we send
|> the bribes too (and what's the postal code for heaven)?
|> 
|> Just wondering...
|> -Cindy Kandolf
|>  cindy@solan.unit.no
|>  Trondheim, Norway

God doesn't take bribes.
Too often, we try to do things that we would "like" to do but have no
talent for.  We should be thankful for the talents that God does give
us.  Not everyone was meant to be a superstar.  All are equal in the 
eyes of God . . . and equally loved.

God be with you.
Xref: sparky talk.religion.misc:27822 alt.pagan:16027 alt.folklore.urban:35186
From: hooker@aristotle.ils.nwu.edu (BOB HOOKER)
Subject: Re: Peace Symbol
Organization: ILS
Date: Mon, 25 Jan 1993 22:03:42 GMT

In article <1993Jan21.171942.10237@infonode.ingr.com>,
haefner@infonode.ingr.com (Mark W. Haefner) writes:
> 
> 
> Recently several articles have been on the ankh and I thought I would
> ask if anyone has information on where the "peace symbol" is derived
> from. I have heard that its origins are occultic and was used by some
> ancient pagan societies. Is this true? If so, who? Anyone care to 
> offer some reliable info?
> 
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> Mark
> 

Everything I have ever read stated that the symbol was created for the
English Anti-Nuclear movement in the 1950s.  Bertrand Russell is to have
been one of its creators.  The symbol was at first to be very negative, 
the symbol for man turn upside,  a symbol of the crisis to humanity caused
by the arms race.  But as with the Christian cross it took on a positive
meaning.  

Most interesting about the peace sign is the fluidness it has as a symbol. 
In 10 years it went from a negative to a positive message.  Today it seems
to  mean little more then the smiley face.  But the symbol has survived, 
and it has never been brought under the control of a political power group
like the Swastika or the Hammer and Sickle. 

 In the peace symbol we see the birth of a sign.  A sign free of meanings
that governments give signs which impose a single "meaning" on them.  In
studying how it grows we may gain some insight into the semiotics of
religious symbols.