HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: orourke@sophia.smith.edu (Joseph O'Rourke)
Subject: Reading as an addiction (Was: 92 in rabreview)
Organization: Smith College, Northampton, MA, US
Date: Thu, 31 Dec 1992 05:01:30 GMT

Seeing the astounding quantity of books some posters consumed in 1992
makes me wonder if reading can be a type of (benign?) addiction.  This 
may be an especially apt description of those who (compulsively?) read a 
hundred genre novels a year, mysteries or science fiction for example.
	Among those who are voracious readers, do you feel the
equivalent of withdrawal symptoms when (for whatever reason) you cannot 
read for an extended period? 
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
From: nadel@attatash.aero.org (Miriam Nadel)
Subject: Re: Sjowall & Wahloo and other series
Organization: /usr/lib/news/organization
Date: Wed, 30 Dec 1992 15:54:25 GMT

In article <1992Dec29.001118.10561@eff.org> mnemonic@eff.org (Mike Godwin) writes:
>
>Many people compare Ed McBain's police procedurals to the Sjowall/Wahloo
>books. Me, I like McBain, but I believe that much more planning went into
>the Swedish novels, which were conceived and executed as a 10-book series.
>I strongly recommend that they be read in chronological order, starting
>with ROSEANNA. Those who want to sample McBain's 87th Precinct novels can
>do no better than to start with ICE.

To be fair, Sjowall and Wahloo were journalists who set out to use the
crime novel as a way to explore what they saw as the deterioration in
Swedish society caused by the welfare state.

McBain's motive in writing the 87th precinct novels was just to make money.
In the more recent ones, he's gotten more sociological (particularly in
his criticisms of the justice system, which gets rather intense in _Kiss_)
but the early books are short, snappy, entertainment.  My personal 
favorite is _Calypso_ because it's so grotesque and I have to admit that
I don't much care for the ones which involve the deaf man.

The other major American writer of police procedurals was Dell Shannon/
Elizabeth Linington (I believe Linington was her real name and I think she
used a couple of other names as well).  The Shannon books feature Luis
Mendoza and are fast paced light reading but have somewhat annoying
political undertones.  Still, there are a lot of them and they do capture
a lot of what Los Angeles is like in a post-Chandler era.

Miriam Nadel
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
From: mnemonic@eff.org (Mike Godwin)
Subject: Re: ...and speaking of green, pulpy, slimy lawyers
Originator: mnemonic@eff.org
Organization: Electronic Frontier Foundation
Date: Tue, 22 Dec 1992 18:50:48 GMT

In article <NICHAEL.92Dec22094713@kariba.bbn.com> ncramer@bbn.com writes:
>
>Those interested in pursuing this thread might enjoy looking up the
>somewhat tortuous derivation of "avocado" in a good etymological
>dictionary.

Hey, mess with this advocate and you'll find yourself in deep guacamole.


--Mike




-- 
Mike Godwin,    |"I'm waiting for the one-man revolution
mnemonic@eff.org| The only one that's coming."
(617) 864-0665  |                           
EFF, Cambridge  |                   --Robert Frost 
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
From: mnemonic@eff.org (Mike Godwin)
Subject: Re: *Any* kind of r.a.b split, or at least a *serious* discussion
Originator: mnemonic@eff.org
Organization: Electronic Frontier Foundation
Date: Wed, 23 Dec 1992 21:53:50 GMT

In article <sph0301.131.725131826@utsph.sph.uth.tmc.edu> sph0301@utsph.sph.uth.tmc.edu writes:

>EXCUSE ME? 
>	 'these people'?  'guests'?  Who died and made you king?
>This is a newsgroup, not a private party .....

Quite so. Newsgroups are *public* parties.

> there are no hosts and
>guests, just a bunch of diverse individuals, some of whom would like
>to see more talk about books and less about non-book topics. 

One of the things that never ceases to surprise me is the fact
that those who want to talk more about books rarely seem to start
topics about them.


--Mike




-- 
Mike Godwin,    |"I'm waiting for the one-man revolution
mnemonic@eff.org| The only one that's coming."
(617) 864-0665  |                           
EFF, Cambridge  |                   --Robert Frost
From: mnemonic@eff.org (Mike Godwin)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
Subject: Re: Non-rabelaisian farts
Date: 27 Dec 92 23:47:11 GMT
Organization: Electronic Frontier Foundation
Originator: mnemonic@eff.org

In article <1hl902INNmi3@morrow.stanford.edu> francis@oas.stanford.edu (Francis Muir) writes:

>How on earth is Chaucer "like Rabelais"? And that is pretty much my point.
>Gargantua & Pantagruel are not on our earth. They are giant, grotesque
>denizens of terra incognita. Contrariwise, Chaucer's Pilgrims have their 
>feet solidly planted on terra firma. Chaucer's language is the everyday 
>language of the folk he knew. Rabelais' language is outlandish. In any
>case, with Chaucer living some one and a half centuries before Rabelais,
>the notion of refering to Geoffrey Chaucer as "Rabelaisian" approaches
>a gaffe of formidable proportions.

Nevertheless, both writers relished humor grounded in farts and other
bodily functions. And that was pretty much *my* point.


--Mike



-- 
Mike Godwin,    |"I'm waiting for the one-man revolution
mnemonic@eff.org| The only one that's coming."
(617) 864-0665  |                           
EFF, Cambridge  |                   --Robert Frost 
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books,alt.sex
From: mnemonic@eff.org (Mike Godwin)
Subject: Susie Bright seeks author for erotica anthology
Originator: mnemonic@eff.org
Organization: Electronic Frontier Foundation
Date: Wed, 23 Dec 1992 18:15:04 GMT

Author and editor Susie Bright is searching for a writer whose work
she has nominated for The Best American Erotica fiction anthology
(Susie Bright, editor, Colliers/Macmillan, 1992).

His name is Charles Holdefer and his short story "Sisters" appeared in
Yellow Silk, Issue #39. The publisher has not furnished any information
or forwarded the nomination to him. Please E-Mail Mike Godwin
(mnemonic@eff.org) if you know how to contact Mr. Holdefer.


--Mike



-- 
Mike Godwin,    |"I'm waiting for the one-man revolution
mnemonic@eff.org| The only one that's coming."
(617) 864-0665  |                           
EFF, Cambridge  |                   --Robert Frost
From: spb0457@rigel.tamu.edu (SubGenius)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
Subject: Re: Reading as an addiction (Was: 92 in rabreview)
Date: 31 Dec 1992 17:50 CST
Organization: Texas A&M University, Academic Computing Services
Distribution: world
NNTP-Posting-Host: rigel.tamu.edu
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41    

>As I was told by a friend when I first got married, and started
>complaining about the constant need for more bookshelves, "Would you
>rather be married to a person who couldn't pass a bookstore without
>going in, or one who couldn't pass a bar without going in?"

+----------------------------------------SubG--------------------------------+
All the lasses out there have been spared the dilemma in my case;  I can't
pass either without investigation.

As far as `bizarre book behaviour,' I find that as a rule when travelling I 
cannot resist the urge to drive about any new town I'm passing through looking 
for its bookshops.  Or, in extreme cases, going slightly out of my way in 
order to visit any nearby large towns with the intention of scouting them for
bookshops.

Although my track record for refraining from purchasing books when in 
commercial bookstores (B. Dalton's, Waldenbooks u.s.w.) is generally pretty 
good, I can't recall the last time I've gone into a used book store and not 
walked out with a volume or two.  I'd say it's been four or five years since I 
managed it, and I visit used book stores on (at least) a weekly basis.  This 
means that I buy about 250 to 300 books a year, mimimum.  In the last six 
months or so I'd estimate that I've bought around 150 or 175 books.

As far a reading habits, I'm afraid that I can only manage to read about half 
of the books I purchase in a year, which although an annual reading list of a 
paltry 150 or so books gives me the appearance of one neigh unlettered, it 
also gives me the happy distinction of possessing a library that is not 
composed exclusively of books I've already read.
+--------------------------------------SubG------------------------------------+

[deletia]

>1. When you go to a bookstore with a friend, are you usually carrying
>more books when you leave than your friend is?

[deletia]

>[Janice's note: I scored 17. Can anyone beat me?]

+---------------------------------------SubG----------------------------------+
I think that the only questions on the quiz that I'd have been forced to
answer `no' on would be due to the fact that I don't a)  watch the
carnivorous coaxial Thought Vampire or b)  have a spouse, so I guess a qualify
as being afflicted by whatever it was that the quiz was supposed to test for
(literacy?).

I'm afraid that I can't feel guilty about my `reading addiction' when your
average person spends 30 hours or more a week in front of the bloody 
television.






Yours etc.,



SubGenius



Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
From: hoosiers@carson.u.washington.edu (Mary Loveless)
Subject: Re: Cultural Appropriation and the New Age
Organization: University of Washington, Seattle
Date: Thu, 24 Dec 1992 16:54:38 GMT

In article <1992Dec23.223115.1500@panix.com> jk@panix.com (Jim Kalb) writes:
>In <1h69a2INNjqr@flop.ENGR.ORST.EDU> irwinke@storm.CS.ORST.EDU (Keith Irwin) writes:
>
>>I'd like to know what people think about New Agers (ie, Europeans and
>>Euroamericans) appropriating the spirituality of various indiginous and
>>small scale cultures.
>
>What does it mean to appropriate someone's spirituality?  Is there
>only a limited amount to go around?
>-- 
>Jim Kalb (jk@panix.com)
>"Rem tene; verba sequentur."  (Cato)

"Spirituality" has become big business today, according to critics of the
New Age.  A chief target of such critics is Lynn Andrews, called a
"self-styled shamaness" and so forth.  According to these unbelievers, she
has taken the trappings of Native American religions and parlayed them
into big bucks.  In the meantime many tribes deal with **serious**
poverty.  For them and their allies, the contrast with the prosperity of
Andrews'and others like her is unbearable.  I can speak to the issue to
this extent:  I have read her early book _Medicine Woman_ and I must
confess it appeared to me to be a New Age/Womens' pastiche of Castaneda's
stuff.  Have others read it?  Can anyone speak to my impression that
Andrews goes through all this travail simply to acquire a stunning
artifact for her condo? 

Mary Loveless  hoosiers@carson.u.washington.edu
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
All of my opinions are self-righteously my own and **certainly** have
nothing to do with the University of Washington.

"I wonder how I'd look in *Madonna's* underwear."  Zippy the Pinhead
------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
From: tmaddox@netcom.com (Tom Maddox)
Subject: Re: Non-rabelaisian farts
Organization: Netcom Online Communications Services (408-241-9760 login: guest)
Date: Sun, 27 Dec 1992 21:44:19 GMT

In article <1hj2brINN671@morrow.stanford.edu> francis@oas.stanford.edu (Francis Muir) writes:
>Stanley Holloway reads *The Miller's Tale*
>and Michael MacLiammoir *The Pardoner's Tale*. They represent The Olde
>Barde at his satiric (satyric?) best, and they both employ voices that
>are happy fakes of how we in Merrie Englande used to speak.

	I'll second Fido's recommendation of the Caedmon recordings while
wondering just how *old* he is and whether he has a mouse in his pocket.

	
-- 
				Tom Maddox
		    	    tmaddox@netcom.com
	"That's a bird bone, chair, Bob.  I don't know if I should sit there."
				Tom Waits
From: annie@garnet.berkeley.edu  (Anne Jessop)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
Subject: Re: 92 in rabreview
Date: 31 Dec 1992 03:35:31 GMT
Organization: University of California, Berkeley
NNTP-Posting-Host: garnet.berkeley.edu
Originator: annie@garnet.berkeley.edu

In article <1992Dec31.022551.17233@netcom.com> dani@netcom.com (Dani Zweig) writes:
>Not comic books, graphic novels.  A good graphic novel will take longer
>to read than most books.  (Yes, most graphic novels are collections of
>a run of comic book.)  But I agree that they shouldn't count anyhow.


I am reminded of the first page of _Alice in Wonderland_:  "Once or twice
[Alice] had peeped into the book her sister was reading, but it had no
pictures or conversation in it, 'and what is the use of a book,' thought
Alice, 'without pictures or conversations?'"
Not to put myself in the position of Alice to an older, academically
inclined sister (or brother), but why should graphic novels not "count?"
Some of them (not all) have sophisticated plots, detailed character
development, and interesting dialog.  This is not something that can be
said of all "regular" novels, in any genre (one pulp sci fi novel, 30
years old, that I read recently on a plane comes to mind).  

Anyway, I am just curious ("curiouser and curiouser") as to the standards
for what counts and what doesn't in this tally, first of all, and secondly
(perhaps the same question, worded differently), what is being "counted?"  
Do the backs of toothpaste tubes count?  Aspirin bottles? Instructions for
the proper use of spermicides?   (Just some of the things I have found
myself reading in the bathroom this year when I _forgot_ to bring a book
along.)

All kidding aside, because after all this is rec.arts.books and not
alt.contraceptives or alt.dental.hygiene, why wouldn't graphic _novels_
count?



Hugs and kisses and happy new year,

Annie




Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
From: jmc@SAIL.Stanford.EDU (John McCarthy)
Subject: Re: Celebrating McGonagall
Reply-To: jmc@cs.Stanford.EDU
Organization: Computer Science Department, Stanford University
	<1993Jan2.224613.12367@psych.toronto.edu>
	<1i5cp7INN54r@shelley.u.washington.edu>
Date: 2 Jan 93 18:40:22

Certain aspects of McGonagall's verse are bad, his meter, his rhymes
and his use of cliches.  I think there is something left that is
pretty good, but I can't put my finger on it.  This accounts for
people reading a McGonagall opus to the end.

Test: take a work by McGonagall, choose 3 stanzas at random and try
replace them by your best McGonagall imitation.  Then see if you can
fool the McGonagall connoisseurs about which is the fake McGonagall
and which is the real thing.  If the poetry is purely and simply bad,
this should be easy.

--
John McCarthy, Computer Science Department, Stanford, CA 94305
*
He who refuses to do arithmetic is doomed to talk nonsense.

Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
From: hhenderson@vax.clarku.edu
Subject: RE: Bullshit (was: *Any* kind of r.a.b. split, or at least a *serious*
Organization: Clark University
Date: 24 DEC 92 06:54:59 GMT


I wrote:

>>Oh, bullshit.  Bullshit!  BULLSHIT!!  There's no brand-new culture!  There 
>>are no new rules for politeness and propriety!  What people like you have
>>to understand is: This group is not some kind of shadow play, this is Real
>>Life. You are talking to Real People. 

Mike Godwin wrote:

>I strongly doubt that you and Barbara Hlavin have any significant 
>disagreement on this particular issue. 

Oh really?  I will quote these words of Barbara's for you again:

>>>People who engage in what passes for communication here have to 
>>>understand that we, collectively, form a brand-new culture, one 
>>>that has a life of its own.  Not everyone is comfortable with its 
>>>manners and rituals as they've more or less evolved, just as not 
>>>everyone in the world is comfortable eating with knives and forks, 
>>>or with chopsticks; it's not Their Way.  But it's the way it is 
>>>*here*. 

How would you interpret these remarks?

And let me again quote these words of Barbara's:

>>>this goes with the territory.  One person's attempt at formality 
>>>and courtesy will inevitably be interpreted by *some*one, *some*where 
>>>as rudeness or indecisiveness.  There's no end to the ways we are 
>>>capable of misinterpreting one another. 

And I said:

>>Ever read the Gettysburg Address? 

*Have* you ever read it?  

Can you say that any attempt at courtesy and politeness is rendered
meaningless because someone, somewhere, won't understand it?  Is there no
common ground of civility?  Of decency?  Of honor?

If there is no such common ground, why do we bother talking at all?

Heather
HHENDERSON@vax.clarku.edu
From: mtaranto@panix.com (Mark Taranto)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
Subject: But I *can* Dance.
Date: 31 Dec 92 23:06:47 GMT
Organization: The Inner Clique


Joan Shields writes:

	Joan Shields (me) wrote:

	    Gee, I always thought it was "Mark, the herald angel, sins..."

	Then Francis, El RABworm, wrote:

	  I think you mean:

		Mark, the [30 something]-year-old Angel...

	  Of course, you have to be a New Ager like Mark to 
	  appreciate this one.

	And now Joan Shields (me again) writes:

	No, I meant what I said, "Mark, the herald angel, sins (or sings)". 
	I've never heard or seen him do either but I'll bet he does both 
	beautifully :)

	As for Francis, well, his sins are probably more interesting and much 
	more exotic than the average bear or the average rabworm ... :) :)

	Then again, I'm not a New Ager, didn't think Mark was either... oh well

I don't think I'm a new ager, I'm certainly not an angel, I do not sing well
(although I had a lovely soprano voice until age 12), I am no longer
30-something, and while I have sinned (see Joe Green's WELL MET IN MN),
I, too doubt that my sins are as interesting as those of our favorite 
RABworm.  But I *have* been told I sin beautifully.

Mark


ObBook:  Someone recently pointed out that I always suggest FIFTH BUSINESS
for any thread -- but it seems a particularly good one for discussing
the concepts of Angels, Saints and Sins.
From: mnemonic@eff.org (Mike Godwin)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
Subject: Rabelaisian pieces about farting (Was Re: Ngaio Marsh info requested)
Keywords: braaap
Date: 21 Dec 92 23:11:26 GMT
Organization: Electronic Frontier Foundation
Originator: mnemonic@eff.org

In article <BzMrpC.6BD@mentor.cc.purdue.edu> kelley@vet.vet.purdue.edu (Stephen Kelley) writes:
>- Mike Godwin writes:
>- 
>- 	I'm trying to think of some non-Rabelaisian pieces about farting. 
>- 	Are there any?
>
>"Enderby", by Anthony Burgess.

You're saying Burgess is not Rabelaisian in this book? He certainly is
in some others.


--Mike




-- 
Mike Godwin,    |"I'm waiting for the one-man revolution
mnemonic@eff.org| The only one that's coming."
(617) 864-0665  |                           
EFF, Cambridge  |                   --Robert Frost
From: nichael@bbn.com (Nichael Cramer)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
Subject: ...and speaking of green, pulpy, slimy lawyers
Date: 22 Dec 92 09:47:13
Organization: BBN, Cambridge MA
Reply-To: ncramer@bbn.com
NNTP-Posting-Host: kariba.bbn.com


>> [...] huevos
>> [...] baitzim

[discussion of various testicular foods deleted]

Those interested in pursuing this thread might enjoy looking up the
somewhat tortuous derivation of "avocado" in a good etymological
dictionary.
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books,misc.books.technical,alt.internet.services,comp.org.eff.talk
From: ckd@eff.org (Christopher Davis)
Subject: Re: The Online BookStore Announcement: The Internet Companion
Organization: Electronic Frontier Foundation Tech Central
	<1h33r0INNn82@im4u.cs.utexas.edu> <1992Dec21.023135.5677@spdcc.com>
Distribution: inet
Date: Mon, 4 Jan 1993 04:10:57 GMT

SD> == Steve Dyer <dyer@spdcc.com>

 SD> I have to say that _TIC_ is a wonderful book to give to someone who is
 SD> Internet-naive.  It's written at exactly the right level.  The ORA
 SD> book is more nuts-n-boltz and written for a more sophisticated
 SD> audience.  The two complement each other quite well, and don't compete
 SD> directly.

I must agree.  I've already given my father-in-law a copy of _TIC_ as a way
of giving him an idea of just what the heck I do for a living.  He's not
really computer-aware enough to deal with Ed Krol's book (well, at least
not yet; we're working on him).

(And I didn't give him a copy *just* because I'm quoted in it either! :)
--
Christopher K. Davis      | ``Usenet seems to run much like the Kif (or,
<ckd@eff.org>   EFF #14   |   for the TV generation, Klingon) high command.
System Administrator, EFF |   Whoever takes action and can be heard wins.''
+1 617 864 0665  [CKD1]   |   --Peter da Silva <peter@ferranti.com>
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
From: bmiller@lunatix.uucp (Barry Miller)
Subject: Re: "Ex" Catholics (was Re: 92 in rabreview)
Organization: Lexington Public Access Unix. -KY- (606) 255-9121
Date: Fri, 01 Jan 1993 00:41:52 GMT
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1 PL6]

 (Francis Muir) writes:
 >BTW, there are no ex-Catholics.

Being one myself, I prefer the term "recovered Catholic."

--Barry
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
From: bkt@blacks.jpl.nasa.gov (Barrie Trinkle)
Subject: Re: Mangled song lyrics (was: Cultural Appropriation and the New Age)
Organization: Image Analysis Systems Group, JPL
Date: Wed, 30 Dec 1992 22:05:12 GMT

At a New Year's Eve party 15 years ago, a friend of mine decided
that Fleetwood Mac was actually singing:

	"I'm just sittin' here nude,
 	 I'm just sittin' here nuuuuuuuude..."

It changed forever my perception of "Secondhand News".  It does make
it almost a good song.
 
--
--------------------------------------------------------------------
..nothing is so fatal to maidenly delicacy of speech as the run of 
a good library.
				Robertson Davies, _Tempest Tost_
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
From: s1mbm@isuvax.iastate.edu
Subject: Re: Good Westerns
Reply-To: s1mbm@isuvax.iastate.edu
Organization: Iowa State University, Ames, Iowa
Date: Thu, 24 Dec 1992 10:24:25 GMT


In article <1ha270INNdai@agate.berkeley.edu>, chuahl@ocf.berkeley.edu (Chua HakLien) writes:
>After seeing "Unforgiven", a friend asked for some good western
>( pulp or non-pulp.. ) reccomendations. Can anyone help me out?
>
>Chua
>+==+

Chua, partly as a way to echo all the praise that Cormac McCarthy has
been getting here of late (and well deserved praise it is), I'd like to
recommend *Blood Meridian* as a Western.  If your friend enjoyed the
squinting mordant acidity of *Unforgiven*, this novel should prove
congenial, though friendly it ain't.

By the way, Henry James often uses "ain't" in his books, so I don't wanta
see no flames on this score.

michael mcdonald
From: chuahl@ocf.berkeley.edu (Chua HakLien)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
Subject: Good Westerns
Date: 23 Dec 92 15:56:16 GMT
Organization: U.C. Berkeley Open Computing Facility
NNTP-Posting-Host: sandstorm.berkeley.edu

After seeing "Unforgiven", a friend asked for some good western
( pulp or non-pulp.. ) reccomendations. Can anyone help me out?

Chua
+==+
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books