HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: ejuv11@castle.ed.ac.uk (Min Tseng)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.taiwan
Subject: Re: BSR and WSR
Date: 14 Sep 92 16:04:12 GMT
Organization: Edinburgh University

>it is the written language as well. Unlike cantonese or Taiwanese, those are
>more  spoken languages.
>
>Eric
This statement is certainly not true.  Before introducing Madarin for an
official language by the goverment, people used to write Han-Ji by the
pronunciation of Taiwanese or Cantonese.  We have been taught to
associate the sound and figure for Madarin, however, if the children
have been taught to associate Taiwanese with Chinese character, they
will never able to see Madarin as a written language and Taiwanese is
only a spoken language.
Ask some Taiwanese experts, they will put everything you spoke in
Taiwanese into Chinese characters if you like.

-Min
Newsgroups: soc.culture.taiwan
From: claudius@leland.Stanford.EDU (Nelson Lu)
Subject: Re: BSR and WSR
Organization: DSG, Stanford University, CA 94305, USA
Date: Sun, 13 Sep 92 07:01:42 GMT

In article <BuI6vr.MxM@acsu.buffalo.edu> v999qx29@ubvmsd.cc.buffalo.edu writes:
>
>When will the distinction between BSR and WSR be totally lifted?
>IMO, that will be when WSR are willing to speak not only Mandarine
>but also Holo(the biggest language goup in Taiwan) or Holo is
>completely destroied, which has become more and more unlikely.

Hopefully it won't, but I am cautiously pessimistic.  No, I haven't been to
Taiwan for the past 3 years, but a friend who visited Taiwan this summer told
me that she (who speaks perfect Taiwanese despite having been born in the
United States) had major problems communicating with the young people at the
church she went to.  And this is in the Taiwanese Presbyterian Church, the
services of which use exclusive Taiwanese.

>I am a BSR and my wife is a WSR. When I heard that some Taiwanese
>Legislators speaking Holo in the conference, I was so excited. But, I
>could feel she was kind of frightened in her subconciousness that
>something has been changed against WSR's profit. Interesting, isn't it?
>Don't be afraid, WSR brothers and sisters. Speaking Holo is a right thing
>to do and it dosen't imply that BSR want to expel WSR. This story
>in my family serves as one of the many proofs of my statement. 
>What do you think?  

Of course.  It always helps to be multi-lingual anyway.  The WSR who learn
Taiwanese won't be losing their heritage; they will merely be able to pick
up new experience.  Taiwanese (like all languages), however, has its limits.
From: rot@multisys.com (Republic of Taiwan)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.taiwan
Subject: Re: Republic of Formosa
Date: 10 Sep 1992 21:57:49 -0500
Organization: UTexas Mail-to-News Gateway
NNTP-Posting-Host: cs.utexas.edu

Newsgroups: soc.culture.taiwan
Subject: Re: Republic of Formosa
Summary: 
Expires: 
Followup-To: 
Distribution: 
Organization: Multimedia Information Systems Corporation, San Jose, CA                        TEL: (408) 436-8929            E-mail: info@multisys.com
Keywords: 

In article <1992Sep8.040846.14108@leland.Stanford.EDU> claudius@leland.Stanford.EDU (Nelson Lu) writes:
=In article <79312@ut-emx.uucp> ifat555@ccwf.cc.utexas.edu (Ray Huang) writes:
=
=>By the way, what's wrong with using ROC if what you want is TI not a 
=>revolution? Chinese had TOO MUCH revolution already! Everybody wants
=>to begin his own dynasty. What the hell is the difference between TIers
=>and Mao? This is why I hate TI!
=
=Well, revolutions can be good sometimes, you know...
=
=But what we need is a velvet revolution, not a bloody one.


It does not matter of the names. It doe matter that people in
Taiwan has their own freedom to choose to decide their own
future.

So if people in Taiwan votes for NOT changing the name of their
own nation, it is their freedom of choice.

So if people in Taiwan votes for changing the name of their
own nation, it is their freedom of choice too.
From: cqu@ringer.cs.utsa.edu (Chang-ning Qu)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.taiwan
Subject: Re: Question about TI
Date: 7 Sep 92 01:34:01 GMT
Organization: University of Texas at San Antonio

In article <laf4l7INN8lk@pollux.usc.edu> mcyang@pollux.usc.edu (Bien-Chao Iunn) writes:
>In article <1992Sep4.133004.9857@linus.mitre.org> 129.83.161.10 (H. Chao) writes:
>>Well, I WAS a TI supportor.  Maybe I was too young.  I used to support
>>Dang3(party)Wai4(outer) and donate my money to them back to the 70's.  When
>>I came to U.S. I still jointed TI meetings. Ironically , I found a rule
>>"CCP= KMT= TI".  
>>It is strange they fight each other, but they are so similar.  They are so
>>narrow minded, they are so power hunger, and they are so blood thirsty. 
>>Somebody tell me it is Chinese nature, and they are Chinese so they share
>>the same character.  Somebody say it is human nature.  People got to "eat"
>>people that is the way to eliminate the "weaker" and keep the society
>>stronger.  Somebody say it is animal nature.  See even monkeys in the zoo
>>will fight for power.
>
>Hmmm... You are the first TI supporter I ever know to change mind.  I have
>some question ...
>
>Who are those Dang3(party)Wai4(outer) candidates you voted for during the
>70's ?  There were not many of them during that time.  It must be very
>easy to remember.
>
>What were those TI meetings you attended ?  Who were in charge ?
>What kind of organization was it ?

    
     Are you an agent of FBI or CIA?
From: yangze@acf3.NYU.EDU (Ze Yang, , , )
Newsgroups: soc.culture.taiwan
Subject: Re: Territory of Ancient China : Qing Dynasty
Date: 8 Sep 92 02:51:00 GMT
Organization: New York University

yewang@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (Yenwen Wang) writes:

>Also remeber, CHINA is also a name given by foreigners!

Many differnt sayings, might from a nothern ethnic group's name: 
Qi4 Dan1 (Chi4 Dan1), then came the meaning china.

>=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
>  Yenwen Wang                        wangy@kaa.eng.ohio-state.edu
>  The Ohio State University          yewang@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu
>=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=

Ze Yang
Xref: sparky soc.culture.taiwan:13019 soc.culture.hongkong:10575 soc.culture.china:25079
From: lai@Apple.COM (Ed Lai)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.taiwan,soc.culture.hongkong,soc.culture.china
Subject: Re: Is Mainland China #3 Economic Power?
Date: 8 Sep 92 20:24:43 GMT
Organization: Apple Computer Inc., Cupertino, CA

If you believe that China has a GNP that is 66% higher than Japan, then indeed
you will believe you can buy the Brooklyn bridge.

Of course comparing GNP by exchange rate has its problem, but so does GNP
by purchaing power. GNP by purchasing power would be accurate if each
country is completely unconnected to other countries economically, and
each country can produce everything it needs, including the most sophiscated
industrial product. But if this is not true, then once you have to trade, you
will be trading according to the exchange rate. In theory if we have perferctly
free trade (of course we do not), then GNP by exchange rate should be no
different from GNP by purchasing power.

Here we are assuming that because of difference in cost of living, one dollar
in China is equal to more than $12 in Japan. Given the high living cost in Japan,
this is not surprising at all. But this kind of assumption may be true as far as
getting your dinner or paying your rent is concerned. It does not means that you
can manufacture a $12000 Japanese car for under $1000 in China, or a $2000
PC for under $200 in China. That is because when you need to buy a 386 chip,
Intel is not going to drop its price by 92 percent because your food and rent
are so cheap. As the country become more industrialized and need to import
industrial equipment and parts, GNP by exchange rate become more and more
meaningful.

/* Disclaimer: All statments and opinions expressed are my own */
/* Edmund K. Lai                                               */
/* Apple Computer, MS37-UP                                     */
/* 20525 Mariani Ave,                                          */
/* Cupertino, CA 95014                                         */
/* (408)974-6272                                               */
zW@h9cOi
From: rot@multisys.com (Republic of Taiwan)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.taiwan
Subject: Re: old Her[4] and Christine
Date: 10 Sep 1992 21:42:48 -0500
Organization: UTexas Mail-to-News Gateway
NNTP-Posting-Host: cs.utexas.edu

Newsgroups: soc.culture.taiwan
Subject: Re: old Her[4] and Christine
Summary: 
Expires: 
Followup-To: 
Distribution: 
Organization: Multimedia Information Systems Corporation, San Jose, CA                        TEL: (408) 436-8929            E-mail: info@multisys.com
Keywords: 

In article <1992Sep7.170800.4548@engage.pko.dec.com> li@sicvax.enet.dec.com (Tong-Kang Li) writes:
=
=In article <Bu7LEA.JAH@multisys.com>, rot@multisys.com (Republic of Taiwan) writes...
=>In article <1992Sep3.120054.24715@engage.pko.dec.com> li@sicvax.enet.dec.com (Tong-Kang Li) writes:
=>=
=>=I am new to this newsgroup (two weeks only). Within two weeks, I have 
=>=already read some hatred messages towards WSR in this newsgroup. Unless 
=>=they are not TI advocators (maybe CCP's spies? :-) )
=> 
=>There have certain Psychos who can feel hate even faceing Saint
=>Marry. You are not one of them, are you?  :-(
=> 
=>=
=>=BTW, I have nothing against the idea of TI. Freedom of speech is my position.
=>=
=>=Tom
=> 
=> 
=
=Within two weeks, in this newsgroup, you have:
=
=1. suggested Haka and Holo to hate WSR.

Only hateful person can feel hate in front of Sanint Marry.
I am sorry you are full of hate.

=2. suggested to move KMTers to Tibet, etc places.

Yes, people will try anyway to twist others' words, if they are
full of hate.

I said "move those KMTers who claim they own KMT's Tibet
to Tibet, who claim they own KMT's Mongolia to Mongolia,
who claim they own KMT's Mainland China to Mainland China."

=3. called Mandarin-speaking people "barbarian".

I believe Dr. Sun-Yet-Soon invented or used that term
'barbarian' when he declare revolution against Chin dynasty.
He said 'get rid of those barbarian and recover Han'.
Mandarin is Chin's official tone and Chin was called
'barbarian' by Dr. Sun-Yet-Soon. So Mandarin is
barbarian's Mandarin, according to Dr. Sun-Yet-Soon.

I sould born before Dr. Sun to invent that term.  ;-)

=
=That is why your little "nation" (or your mental hospital :-) ) is still 
=based in San Jose and you, Mr. whoever, have to hide at the corner to 
=attack people. You are not just stupid, but have gone mad completely.

Such a hateful personality.   ;-(

Look, Saint Marry is crying. You did it.   :-)

=


Newsgroups: soc.culture.taiwan
From: ghe@nyx.cs.du.edu (George He)
Subject: Re: News readers from ROT
X-Disclaimer: Nyx is a public access Unix system run by the University
	of Denver for the Denver community.  The University has neither
	control over nor responsibility for the opinions of users.
Organization: Nyx, Public Access Unix at U. of Denver Math/CS dept.
Date: Thu, 10 Sep 92 20:09:16 GMT

In article <9209101906.AA14885@multisys.com> rot@multisys.com (Republic of Taiwan) writes:
>In article <1992Sep8.172134.19831@mnemosyne.cs.du.edu> ghe@nyx.cs.du.edu (George
> He) writes:
>=
>=I am certain about one thing ---
>="Taiwanese wouldn't want to be ruled by CCP."
>=If CCP remains in power, there will be absolutely no peaceful unification.
>=
>=If what Mr. Yang said is true --- CCP's crash brings major disorder
>=to mainland, why would Taiwanese choose to unify with a more messy mainland,
>=even though it's lousy enough now?
> 
>What's good of a HUGE Nation?
> 
>..........
> 
> 
>What's good of a HUGE Nation?
> 
>You can be proud of it. Nothing more, nothing less.
>This 'being proud of it' is all the good of Huge Country and
>billions of people have died for 'being proud of it'.
> 

If mainlanders just want to maintain their huge country, that's their business.

Unfortunately, there are some DP mainlanders who badly want to drag us 
into their huge country. 
We are now happily living. And these DP mainlanders want us 
as unhappy as they are. What a shame!
From: ifat555@ccwf.cc.utexas.edu (Ray Huang)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.taiwan
Subject: Why support TI?
Date: 5 Sep 92 20:27:00 GMT
Organization: The University of Texas at Austin, Austin TX


    I simply don't understand why do some people support TI, when they
are actually anti-KMTers.

    The difference between TIers and anti-KMTers will appear when KMT
start doing TI officially.  Real TIers will still work on TI, but
anti-KMTers will find other topic to yell.

    What a waste of time and energy. Why don't those anti-KMTers just go
ahead and turn the KMT down directly when I can't find how TAIWAN can 
be more independent than now?

    Is the anser that the name TIer sounds better than anti-KMTer?
From: 2ftzlead@kuhub.cc.ukans.edu
Newsgroups: soc.culture.taiwan
Subject: Looking for a long lost friend
Date: 10 Sep 92 21:52:56 CDT
Organization: University of Kansas Academic Computing Services

Hi everyone,

This is a message from Chun-yen Liu.  I'm looking for a table tennis friend
who told me he would attend Long Island University.  We used to be good friends
in Taiwan; however, we lost track of each other while we came to the United
States.
His name is Chang, Zong-san, who played as captain of National Chung-sing Univ.
He got his master degree in Plant Pathology at National Taiwan University. He
should have stayed in the U.S. for one year
If anyone would be so kind to let me know, please make use of the following
informations.
   (1) Email:  cliu@hawk.cs.ukans.edu
               dragon@oread.cc.ukans.edu
               2ftzlead@kuhub.cc.ukans.edu
   (2) Phone : 913-832-2693
   (3) Address :  Roger C. Liu
                  1809 W 25th St,#E,
                  Lawrence,KS 66046
I'm seeking a master degree in Computer Science at the University of Kansas.
Any help from you will be much appreciated. Thanks !

Sincerely,
Chun-yen Liu  (Roger)

Xref: sparky soc.culture.taiwan:13114 soc.culture.hongkong:10645 soc.culture.vietnamese:13411
From: sqlee@octel.com (Steven Q. Lee)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.taiwan,soc.culture.hongkong,soc.culture.vietnamese
Subject: How to convert solar calendar to lunar calendar.
Date: 10 Sep 92 21:49:30 GMT
Organization: Octel, Milpitas Ca.


Hi everybody,

Does everyone out there know how to convert a day from solar calendar to
lunar calendar?  A friend of mine, his birthday goes by the lunar calendar
(you know, "Chinese calendar").  But I only have his birthday in solar
calendar.  The day is 12/24/1968.  Could someone look up the corresponding
day in lunar calendar for me (the month, day, and year).  Or please show
me the way to convert it.  Thanx.

steven
Newsgroups: soc.culture.taiwan
From: rot@multisys.com (Republic of Taiwan)
Subject: Re: old Her[4] and Christine
Organization: Multimedia Information Systems Corporation, San Jose, CA                        TEL: (408) 436-8929            E-mail: info@multisys.com
Date: Mon, 7 Sep 1992 12:58:57 GMT

In article <1992Sep3.120054.24715@engage.pko.dec.com> li@sicvax.enet.dec.com (Tong-Kang Li) writes:
=
=I am new to this newsgroup (two weeks only). Within two weeks, I have 
=already read some hatred messages towards WSR in this newsgroup. Unless 
=they are not TI advocators (maybe CCP's spies? :-) )

There have certain Psychos who can feel hate even faceing Saint
Marry. You are not one of them, are you?  :-(

=
=BTW, I have nothing against the idea of TI. Freedom of speech is my position.
=
=Tom


Newsgroups: soc.culture.taiwan
From: leung@DSG.Tandem.COM (Steven Leung)
Subject: Re: The AutuMid-Autumn Festival
Organization: Tandem Computers
Date: Fri, 11 Sep 1992 14:44:57 GMT

lix@xanadu.bu.edu (Xiaowen Li) writes:

> Unfotunately, Ms. Chang-O's life is miserable on the Moon. According to
> Tang Dunasty's record, before she decided to have drug and fly to the moon,
> she visited a "Ri Zhei", and the "Gua" was:
> 
> Pian Pian Gui Mei, ( A beautiful lady )
> Du Jiang Xi Xin. (is going to west along)
> Wu Jing Wu Kong, (Don't be scared, don't fear)
> Hou Quei Da Chang ( she will get prosperity later)

Well, if it is only a "Gua," it cannot be used as a proof that Lady Chang's
life is miserable on the moon. (May be the Ri stuff won't work on things
on the moon :-)

> After she arrived at the moon, she found she got fatter and fatter. She finally
> found herself becoming a "Nai Xia Ma" (a kind of frog living on land).

Now, you really need to show evidence about this. All pictures I saw are
either depicting Lady Chang flying to the moon or already on the moon,
and there is absolutely no evidence whatsoever she got "fatter and fatter"
there. I think that is probably a rumor spread by Lady Chang's Qing2 Di2 ...

Steven
------
328. Seek opportunity, not security. ...
        - Life's Little Instruction Book by H. J. Brown, Jr.

Newsgroups: soc.culture.taiwan
From: yuchao@mtu.edu (Edmond  CHAO)
Subject: Re: Happy Moon Festival
Followup-To: soc.culture.taiwan
Keywords: moon festival
Organization: Dept of ME, Michigan Technological University
Date: Tue, 8 Sep 1992 17:04:07 GMT


Dear s.c.t netters:

  I heard sombody said that this Friday is the Chinese Moon Festival(?).

So, if you forgot this day, I would like to post a moon-cake (yue4 bing3)

to remind you.


              ***                                  88
           **    **             88    88          88888888
         **        **           88    88                88
        **          **          88    88           8   88
       **            **         88888888            888      88   88
       **  moon-cake **                  88                   88 88
       **            **                   88      888888888    888
        **          **          88    88   88
         **        **        8888888888888            88
           **    **             88    88             88
             ***                88                  88
                                88888888           888888888



  Happy Chinese Moon Festival!


  Edmond Chao
  yuchao@mtu.edu
  Dept of ME, Michigan Tech. Univ.

PS: Sorry, I don't have time to draw a big fruit called "you4 dz0" to you.
Xref: sparky soc.culture.taiwan:12953 soc.culture.china:24999 soc.culture.hongkong:10530
From: joe@astro.as.utexas.edu (Joe Wang)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.taiwan,soc.culture.china,soc.culture.hongkong
Subject: Re: Can we not all get along?
Date: 7 Sep 92 19:51:16 GMT
Followup-To: soc.culture.taiwan
Organization: McDonald Observatory, University of Texas @ Austin

In article <1992Sep5.041248.20980@pasteur.Berkeley.EDU> thuang@cory.Berkeley.EDU (Tze-yau Huang) writes:
>My view point is simple.  Within the Chinese Proper, there is not such
>thing as singular China.  We cannot say there is one single Chinese
>religion and we also should not say that there is one single Chinese
>culture.  

What's wrong with the idea that there exists a single Chinese people
and a single Chinese culture, and within that single Chinese people
and single Chinese culture, there are a lot of differences which make
this people and this culture, all the more interesting.

>Similarly, there is no justification for Chinese of different
>origins to share a singular homeland.  

Earlier, I gave some economic reasons why "one China" could be
advantageous to people living in it.  My copy of "Guo-fu si-xiang"
goes into considerable detail trying to justify the idea of
"zhong-guo."  You can argue a lot about whether the justifications are
valid, but to say that there are "no justifications" is incorrect.

>The myth of singular Chinese culture or entity will only perpetuate
>culture genecides and negligence toward valueable culture relics
>contradicting the "orthodox" Chinese culture.  

Why?  No one said that "singular" meant "homogenous."  
And how will "Taiwanese nationalism" help matters?

>Holo Taiwanese, marked
>with the Austronesian Taiwanese heritage of "khan-chhiu", the ceremony
>of marriage in the form of holding hands, embedding into a daily word
>that means spouse, have to stop the state from distorying the evidences
>of an ancient Taiwanese culture that once surpassed that of the origins
>of Han nations.  

Again, how will your "Taiwanese nationalism" help matters?  

After all, there is plenty of interesting archeological evidence that
south Mainland China was once dominated by a Tai-speaking empire and
that the people in south China had mastered intensive rice growing
long before contact with the northern Han peoples.  The descendants of
the Tai-speaking people live now in Yunnan.  Also living in Yunnan are
a group of Mongols who are descendants from garrison forces left
behind by Khubulai Khan.

Perhaps, if you can come up with a "Taiwanese nationalism" that will
protect the evidence of ancient Taiwanese culture, you should try to
expand it into a "greater Chinese nationalism" that will protect the
evidences of ancient Mainland cultures as well.

Or are Chinese hopeless?

>The majority of Taiwanese have their root in Taiwan not
>just a couple centuries but milliniums.  This root might seem irrelevant
>from the view point of being a "Chinese", but Taiwanese cannot
>understand their societal behaviors without understanding their
>cosmopolitan past.

You really ought to team up with the "xungen" school of writers on the
Mainland.  They've been trying to make the same point about all
Chinese people.
From: rot@multisys.com (Republic of Taiwan)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.taiwan
Subject: Re: Question about TI
Date: 12 Sep 1992 20:13:52 -0500
Organization: Multimedia Information Systems Corporation, San Jose, CA                        TEL: (408) 436-8929            E-mail: info@multisys.com
NNTP-Posting-Host: cs.utexas.edu

In article <79608@ut-emx.uucp> joe@astro.as.utexas.edu (Joe Wang) writes:

I wrote,
=>Every child born in America knows who he or she is, an
=>American.
=
=I am one "born in America" person who considers himself to be Chinese
=as well as being an American.  That seems to bother some TI people.

I don't know about other's opinion, but it certainly does
not bother me.

It is interested to know what you gonner react, if
there has a war between China and US?

Cut yourself to two half and the left side goes to China to
yell 'long live Mao', 'liberate evil Capatalists'
and the right side stays in the US to yell 'those dirty Commi scums'
'Commi's day is numberd'.

Don't know how they gonner fight each other when
your left side meets your right side in the battle ground.  ;-)

Also, how you gonner split something in your body which
only has one.   ;-(

Xref: sparky soc.culture.taiwan:13341 soc.culture.hongkong:10740