HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: stev@vax.ftp.com  (stev knowles)
Subject: Re: Why long end of engine forward?
Nntp-Software: PC/TCP NNTP
Organization: FTP Software, Inc., Wakefield, MA
Distribution: na
Date: Mon, 23 Nov 1992 10:19:40

>    >Does anyone know why Norfolk Southern (and their ancestors, N&W and
>    >Southern) runtheir engines long end forward?
>
>    I always speculated that the powers that be had such a strong tie
>    to steam power that they chose to operate diesel locomotives in a
>    way resembling steam locomotives, with the cab at the rear end.
>
>I think it was actually because the crew is better-protected when the long
>hood is between them and a gravel truck they're about to crunch.
>
>James B. VanBokkelen            2 High St., North Andover, MA  01845
>FTP Software Inc.               voice: (508) 685-4000  fax: (508) 794-4488

i have read that the reason for the long hood forward was as james sez, the
crews were much better protected in the event of a collision. the high short
hoods were ordered to allow for more space for crew and for radio control of
mid train slave diesels ( LOCO-TROL, as i recall?). it also may have had
something to do with the high short hoods on the GP9's, and having them buy
stuff they understood . . . . .

recent purchases by NS have not had the high short hood, and have been set
up to run short hood forward. i believe that the GP 50's were the last units
bought with the high short hoods.  on occasion i have seen GP60's and
DASH8-39B's with the F on the long hood. i am somewhat surpised that NS
hasnt been buying wide short noses, since they have always been concerned
with the space in the cabs. maybe it is that ole time southern conservatisim
 . . . .

does anyone know why NS seems to have liked buying their high power road
diesels with B trucks rather than C trucks? i noticed that their future
purchase plans (from CTC board?) indicated they were going to purchase
mostly 6 axle units, but i dont think i have ever seen any 6 axle units
other than the SD40's and SD40-2's (but, then again, living in mass i only
see NS when visiting my parents in virginia)

does anyone know if the SD-60 or SD-70 are available with a high short nose?
i would imagine that if it came down to it, EMD would put high short noses
on SD-60's if NS promised to buy some, but i dont know. i wont ask about
the GE's, since they were *always* homely with high short noses. . . . . 

Newsgroups: rec.railroad
From: reilley@studio.enet.dec.com (Tom Reilley)
Subject: Request: PRR .gif's ?
Organization: Digital Equipment Corporation
Date: Sat, 21 Nov 1992 03:16:33 GMT


If anyone happens to have any .gif color images/photos of the Pennsylvania RR,
especially any steam locomotives, I'd appreciate it if you could post it
here or send it to me via e-mail. Right now I don't have access to any
color scanners and I'm trying to locate a good PRR image to use for the
background on my workstation screen - within DEC my workstation is
set up with the node name of PENNSY. :^}

I'm posting here because of the specialized nature of the subject :-)
rather than in alt.binaries.pictures, etc.

Thanks!

	*	*	 *        *        *        *       *       *


Tom Reilley                               
DEC 		 	reilley@studio.enet.dec.com
30 Forbes Road
Northboro, MA 01532-2595 USA
Newsgroups: rec.railroad
From: kwyatt@ccscola.Columbia.NCR.COM (Kershner Wyatt)
Subject: Re: GE chugging
Organization: NCR Corp, E&M-Columbia, Columbia, SC
Date: Mon, 23 Nov 92 13:48:54 GMT

In article <FsoiuB2w164w@cellar.org> atrw0176@cellar.org (Atrw93) writes:
>billg@bony1.bony.com (Bill Gripp) writes:
>Don't overlook the fact that the Alcos, 539, 244, & 251 as well as
>all of the GE engines are four cycle engines (like most cars)
>and that EMD stuck with the two cycle concept (like your B&S
>lawn mower engine). The near stall sound on the Alcos was due to the

Sorry, Briggs and Stratton are 4 cycles.  Lawn Boy/Toro (some models) are
2 cycle, as are most leaf blowers, chain saws, and outboards.  Not to mention
the SAAB popcorn machine.

Nit pick, nit pick.  

BTW, a lot of diesel trucks also tend to idle down then
back up.  I've heard every reason from keeping the turbocharger spinning, to
avoiding overheating, to keeping the engine running in the max torque band, 
and providing fuel economy at the same time.
-- 
Kershner Wyatt
kwyatt@ccscola.ColumbiaSC.ncr.com

My opinions are my own and aren't necessarily my employer's.
Newsgroups: rec.railroad
From: pierson@ggone.enet.dec.com (Dave Pierson)
Subject: Re: Compound Locomotives
Organization: Digital Equipment Corporation
Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1992 17:43:28 GMT

In article <74oiuB3w164w@cellar.org>, atrw0176@cellar.org (Atrw93) writes...
>pierson@ggone.enet.dec.com (Dave Pierson) writes:

>> Some one wrote, concerning single axis articulation:

>> >This concept was copied into the GG-1 electrics and provided great
>> >trackability up to 125 mph. And they were able to manuver on even the
>> >poorest yard trackage that could sustain the weight.

>> 	This would have been a little tricky.  The first GG1 (4799, later 4800)
>> 	ran in 1934.  The first A (I looked it up) dates to 1936  (unless the
>> 	reference is wrong.

>Please verify for me, I believe that the articulation concept predated
>the N&W A. 
	Of course.  The original, as I read it, asserted that the A design,
	specifically, and as to the particular form of articulation, predated
	and influenced the GG1.  By the dates, it did not.

>Didn't the UP Challengers predate the A.  The same cocept also appeared in
>some 2-6-6-4's although I don't have the chronology.
	Articulation dates at least to the 1860s.  It reappeared, presumably
	driven by rising traffic (heavier trains...) say about 1900.
	That articulation, per se, preceded the GG1, i wouldn't doubt.  I will
	try to check the Challengers, but other than that, i would need a
	specific type of steam articulated to check.

thanks
dave pierson			|the facts, as accurately as i can manage,
Digital Equipment Corporation	|the opinions, my own.
40 Old Bolton Rd		|I am the NRA.
Stow, Mass		01775	pierson@msd26.enet.dec.com
"He has read everything, and, to his credit, written nothing."  A J Raffles
Newsgroups: rec.railroad
From: rjm@cs.brown.edu (Ralph Marshall)
Subject: Passenger transfers between Boston's North and South Stations
Organization: Brown University Department of Computer Science
Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1992 19:27:40 GMT

In article <lgqcmdINNgd6@news.bbn.com> rnewman@bbn.com (Ron Newman) writes:

[Discussion of how to move trains over Conrail track]

>Much easier to just have passengers take the Orange Line from
>Back Bay station to North Station, an 85 cent ride.   Maybe
>Amtrak could be persuaded to move checked baggage between
>the stations so the passengers don't have to?

It's time for my periodic Amtrak flame.  This may be easier for them,
but how convenient is is for the passengers?!?  Also, well before they
handle checked baggage between the stations I'd like to see them
handle it for one station.  

I've just called them to check on my facts before posting (I know, but
I had to do it anyway.)  If I take the train from Providence to
Altoona (a trip I make about once a year) I have to carry my bags on
the train in Providence, and then check them when I change trains in
Philadelphia.  This despite the fact that I would arrive in
Philadelphia at 5:30 am and not leave until nearly 10:00am.  

So, instead of pulling up to the curb at the airport and handing my
luggage to a porter and not having to deal with it until I get out of
the taxi in Altoona, I have to carry it into the train station, watch
it until the train leaves, carry it onto the train and find a space
for it, and finally reverse the process in Philadelphia.  I'm
currently able to carry as much luggage as I travel with, but how many
travelers can or want to do it?  Just another minor but compelling
reason to skip the train for many people.

While I don't know all the details, I can also remember being at the
station when the person ahead of me was travelling first class to the
west coast.  They offered to check his bags, but said that they
wouldn't be transferred in Chicago and thus wouldn't arrive until the
following day.  This was an elderly couple with two large bags, almost
certainly paying in excess of $1000 for this trip.  How likely are
they to recommend this to their friends and neighbors?

Ralph Marshall
rjm@cs.brown.edu
"Whatever you think, you are under no compulsion to broadcast it.
Free speech is a restraint on government, not an incitement to the
citizen."
	Dean Acheson to Harry Truman, regarding attacks on JFK
From: news@sifon.cc.mcgill.ca
Newsgroups: rec.railroad
Subject: Re: Crossing borders (on VIA's Atlantic)
Date: 21 Nov 92 20:11:04 GMT
Organization: McGill University

In article <1992Nov20.180414.16630@engage.pko.dec.com> pierson@ggone.enet.dec.com (Dave Pierson) writes:
>In article <1992Nov20.160451.25248@galileo.cc.rochester.edu>,
>kolassa@genesee.bst.rochester.edu (John Kolassa) writes, in part:
>
>>I believe that a VIA route crosses into Maine.  Does it stop in the US?
> Used to.  Think it still does.  One stop, maybe two.

Yes, still does.  Six stops in Maine: Jackman, Greenville, Brownville
Junction, Mattawamkeag, Danforth, Vanceboro.
>
>>What are the immigration practices there?
> Based on the "train across Canada documentary" doors are "sealed" at the
> crossings, or before, while US Customs checks the train, probably
> enroute, at least checking any detraining passengers.

A US Customs officer boards the eastbound train in Jackman, and
another boards the westbound in Vanceboro.  They only check passengers
who get on or off in the US.  When the two trains meet, the customs
officers swap trains, so each ends up at his point of origin.
>
Tom Box
CZ94@MUSICA.MCGILL.CA
Newsgroups: rec.railroad
From: M00209@MBVM.Mitre.Org
Subject: Re: UPDATE ON BOSTON TO PORTLAND, ME SERVICE
Organization: The MITRE Corporation, Bedford MA 01730
Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1992 15:47:28 GMT

In article <1992Nov17.121352.2435@merrimack.edu>
gemmellj@merrimack.edu writes:
 
>
>Just a quick update on rail service from Boston to Portland, ME.
>A few days ago, the stops were selected they are:
>1) Boston -orgin
>2) Woburn, MA
>3) Haverhill, MA
>4) Exeter, NH
>5) Durham, NH (note stops only on weekends. probally because the Univ. of NH.
>              (is there)
>6)Dover, NH
>7)      (not sure on these stops, but they are in the state of Maine)
>8)
>9) Portland, ME
>
>
I noted the same story in our local paper (Haverhill Gazette).  The Maine
stops are Wells and Saco, with a seasonal stop added at Old Orchard Beach.
The "Woburn" stop must be the MBTA's Mishawum stop in East Woburn, and this
implies that the train will run via the freight route (the "Wildcat") and
not via Reading.  IMHO, this is a wise decision as the Mishawum stop is
adjacent to the intersection of Routes I-93 and I-95 and has a humongous
parking lot - the "Route 128" of the North Side!  The local paper also noted
that, with equal logic, the "Haverhill" stop will probably actually be Bradford
where parking is available in large quantities rather than the downtown station
where there is no parking.  This could change if the City ever gets the
"Transportation Center" (a la Gallagher Transportation Center in Lowell) that
the MBTA has promised us.
 
 
Len Bachelder        Archives Committee, Boston and Maine RR Historical Society
MITRE Corp.           Secretary, Massachusetts Bay Railroad Enthusiasts
Bedford MA 01730      Member, 470 Railroad Club
<M00209@mbvm.mitre.org>
 
"Amazing love, how can it be that Thou, my God, should'st die for me!"
                                                 - Charles Wesley
Newsgroups: rec.railroad
From: crh@wam.umd.edu (Craig Hinners)
Subject: Invention & Technology Article About Gauges
Organization: University of Maryland, College Park
Distribution: na
Date: Tue, 24 Nov 1992 05:40:22 GMT

For anyone who is interested, there is an article in the Winter 1993 issue of 
"American Heritage of Invention & Technology" about how the railroads
dealt with different gauges during the late 19th and early 20th centuries.
It is written by John Stover, the author of, among other things, "History
of the Baltimore & Ohio Railroad."  The full title of the article is
"One Gauge: How Hundreds of Incompatible Railroads Became a National
System."

It's a very imformative article with incredible facts (one stating that
the Louisville & Nashville once narrowed 2000 mi. of track in a single
day).  Also has a b&w picture and a detailed diagram of "Ramsey's Car
Transfer Apparatus", a stretch of rail where one gauge dropped below
the other, allowing the trucks to be swapped on a freight car.  Neat!

Craig Hinners  ***  crh@wam.umd.edu

Newsgroups: rec.railroad
From: matthew@cs.su.oz (Matthew Geier)
Subject: Re: Stupid People (Rock Throwing)
Reply-To: matthew@cluster.cs.su.oz.au (Matthew Geier)
Organization: Basser Dept of Computer Science, University of Sydney, Australia
Date: Mon, 16 Nov 1992 02:08:48 GMT

In article <1e475kINNc1q@gap.caltech.edu> pvmason@cco.caltech.edu (Peter V. Mason) writes:

>BTW, boneheads along the SP cut along Mission going east from LA
>used to throw rocks at the trains.  Since they were about eye-to-eye
>with the cabs, they managed to prang a couple of engineers.  Does this
>happen elsewhere? 

 I guess this happens every where. Just this weekend I pickuped up on my
scanner a report of kids throwing rocks at passing trains. ( Both Suburban
and Freight.).

 In the summer when the drivers tend to have their side windows open, a few
get hit. Its rare that a kid lobs a rock big enough to break the glass.
(Athough some times they do... ).
 Most of our Suburban fleet now has armoured windscreens so its unlikely that
a rock will break it. The same cant be said for the side windows.
Newsgroups: rec.railroad
Subject: Re: UPDATE ON BOSTON TO PORTLAND, ME SERVICE
From: Robert Chambers <RMCCU@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Date: Monday, 23 Nov 1992 15:19:49 EST
Organization: CUNY/UCC VM Systems

In article <1992Nov19.192212.19048@pbs.org>, btiffany@pbs.org says:
>

>It's been in and out of Washington Union Station for some weeks now (yes, I
>have plenty of pictures! :-)  ).  I don't think it's on a regular run yet.
>For some reason they brought down a Rohr Turboliner (!) to park nose-to-nose
>with it one cold day last week.  I last saw it this morning.  It's called
>the X2000, by the way.

You don't by chance have access to a scanner that could put them in GIF
format do you?  I'm sure many of us here would like to add one of these
to our .trains directories!

>-- Bruce Tiffany

Robert
From: romeo@niagara.Tymnet.COM (Michael Stimac)
Newsgroups: rec.railroad
Subject: Re: Air whistles (was Scaring away meese)
Date: 16 Nov 92 19:29:38 GMT
Distribution: na
Organization: BT North America (Tymnet)

In article <1992Nov15.070123.8912@pasteur.Berkeley.EDU> zephyr@cory.Berkeley.EDU (COIFMAN) writes:
>
> At least one disel railway had whistles instead of horns. When absorbed
>into the Soo Line, all of the locomotives on the Minneapolis Northfield
>and Southern had air whistles. As the engines were absorbed and

And some steam locomotives had air horns. I'll leave it as an
exercise for the net to provide a list of such steam locos.

Michael Stimac
-- 
Michael Stimac
(415) 355-8889
romeo@tymnet.com
These opinions are not necessarily anyone's but my own.
Newsgroups: rec.railroad
From: yves@speedy.dev.cdx.mot.com (Yves Vidal)
Subject: IHB / NYC Caboose information needed.
Organization: Motorola Codex, Canton, MA
Distribution: rec.railroad
Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1992 18:03:01 GMT
Followup-To: e-mail or group
Keywords: IHB

Hi everybody, 

I need to get some information on the cabooses operated by 
Indiana Harbor Belt RR (if they operated any...) which I think 
was owned by New York Central.

I am looking for the colour scheme and the markings used on the
IHB RR caboose or NYC caboose (if this is a realistic alternative...?).

Any information would be more than welcome.
Thanks in advance.

Yves
From: cantrell@clipper.ingr.com (Loren Cantrell)
Newsgroups: rec.railroad
Subject: Re: aus.rail update
Date: 20 Nov 92 16:07:37 GMT
Organization: Intergraph Advanced Processor Division - Palo Alto, CA


Earlier I added my vote to those against the seperate news group so don't count me again.

I want to add another argument against a seperate news group.  We've just been  informed by sysadmin that because of the number of news groups, some will have 
to be deleted.  This means that most likely I'll never have access to aus.rail  and will be lucky to keep rec.railroad.

Is anyone else in the same situation I am?

Loren Cantrell 
-- 
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Loren Cantrell                                       cantrell@clipper.ingr.com
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: ingraham@railnet.nshore.ORG (Dick Ingraham)
Newsgroups: rec.railroad
Subject: Re: Why long end of engine forward?
Date: Sun, 15 Nov 92 09:46:12 EST
Distribution: na
Organization: Railnet BBS +1 216 786 0476

hess@stat.ncsu.edu (George Hess) writes:

> 
> Does anyone know why Norfolk Southern (and their
> ancestors, Norfolk & Western and Southern) run
> their engines long end forward?  Seems like all
> you get from that is a tremendous loss of visibility
> and lots more diesel fumes in the cab.  Do any other
> railroads routinely run their engines this way?
> 
> george_hess@ncsu.edu


Can't say just why but if you  ran into a truck or something else at a 
grade crossing would you want the long or short hood forward.  Not much 
choice is there?  Beside they look more like steam engines with the long 
hood to the front.

Regards,


--
ingraham@railnet.nshore.ORG (Dick Ingraham)
Railnet BBS +1 216 786 0476
From: Steve_Hooper@mindlink.bc.ca (Steve Hooper)
Subject: Re: Stupid People (Rock Throwing)
Organization: MIND LINK! - British Columbia, Canada
Date: Wed, 18 Nov 1992 06:50:45 GMT


Another story I recall...

About 4 years ago, some kid was playing at the edge of the Port Coquitlam
rail yard.  He shot and hit a yard engineer with a pellet gun.  He was hit in
the cheek about 2 inches away from his eye.

The kid was chased but was not caught.


--

 steve_hooper@mindlink.bc.ca   []  The Great White North in
 OR      a777@mindlink.bc.ca   []   Vancouver, BC, CANADA

Newsgroups: rec.railroad
From: eoliver@laurel.ocs.mq.edu.au (Eddie Oliver)
Subject: Re: flashing signals
Organization: Macquarie University, Australia.
Date: Wed, 18 Nov 1992 03:09:39 GMT

In article <10104@kralizec.zeta.org.au> craig@kralizec.zeta.org.au (Craig Dewick) writes:
> 
>You have to be clear on the definitions. And is apparent that some other
>systems (mainly overseas) use 'flashing' to refer to lights that actually
>pulsate (ie. they just alter the intensity, but don't turn off during the
>duty cycle), and vice versa. The NSW definitions are literal.
>-- 


Exactly! That was what I was on about when I started this particular
thread some time ago. I suspect that some of us (myself included) have 
allowed the distinction to get lost in the course of the discussion.

I certainly misunderstood your last posting, in that I thought you were denying
the existence of pulsating main heads as distinct from pulsating turnout bands.
My apologies for the misinterpretation.

However perhaps we can now get back to the original line of enquiry, which some
of us (again myself included) have allowed to get lost. I was trying to find 
out - as were others later - a definitive statement of the systems adopted
around the world. So far we seem only to have concluded:

1. some railroads do have pulsating signals but may describe them as
   flashing;
2. in some cases the pulsations are over such a range of intensity that they
   appear to be truly flashing, but are not really;
3. there are also some installations which are genuinely flashing, i.e. with
   full on/off cycles, but these require some special protection to stop
   failures in the full off position;
4. there is a fairly wide range of flashing/pulsating speeds, ranging from
   maybe 1 cycle per two or three seconds through to several times per second.

What we haven't yet established is which railroad systems use which varieties.
We know that New South Wales is pulsating, and it was said that British Rail
appeared to be pulsating but of type 2 above; can others advise their local
situation, especially re different US and Canadian systems?

Eddie Oliver
Newsgroups: rec.railroad
From: zephyr@cory.Berkeley.EDU (COIFMAN)
Subject: Re: Air whistles (was Scaring away meese)
Organization: University of California, at Berkeley
Date: Mon, 16 Nov 1992 01:09:22 GMT

In article <jwj2.70.721871267@po.CWRU.Edu> jwj2@po.CWRU.Edu (Jermaster) writes:
>The NH air whistles were known as Hancock Air Whistles. I'm pretty sure they
>were standard equipment on most all New Haven locomotives (with exception
>of their ex-Virginian E33's, which still had their originial horns on all
>the pictures I've seen).
>


 Now that you mention it, the MN&S whistles were Hancock Air Whistles
too. 


   _ -----------  -------------  ----------- _  -------------/^^^^^^^^\----
  /^____________||_____________||____________^\|[] ==== ====  ___ ___   == |
 'o-o ------ o-o  o-o ----- o-o  o-o ------ o-o o-o ------------------- o-o
Way of the Zephyrs        zephyr@cory.berkeley.edu             Benn Coifman
                           zephyr@robotics.berkeley.edu
From: elw4@po.CWRU.Edu (Evan L. Werkema)
Newsgroups: rec.railroad
Subject: Air whistle sound file posted
Date: 17 Nov 1992 07:10:26 GMT
Organization: Case Western Reserve University, Cleveland, OH (USA)
Reply-To: elw4@po.CWRU.Edu (Evan L. Werkema)
NNTP-Posting-Host: slc12.ins.cwru.edu


  To go along with the discussion of air whistles, I've posted a .SND of one
to alt.binaries.sounds.misc.  It belongs to Cuyahoga Valley Line (ex-D&H) RS3
4099.  It's not a Hancock Air Whistle, and doesn't sound much like one either.
It looks like a 2 foot long, 6 inch diameter black pipe, and is apparently
a custom application by the CVL...the unit still mounts its air horn in the 
usual place, and the air whistle is mounted on a special bracket on the long 
hood.  Apparently it's removable, as I only saw it used this one time.
  A little history on the CVL: The Cuyahoga Valley Line is a tourist railroad
that uses the ex-B&O trackage from the Cleveland suburb of Independence, OH
south towards Akron.  The line serves Hale Farm Museum and the Akron Valley 
Business District, a one-way distance of 20-some miles.  Mr. Van Huffel can 
probably tell you more, but from what I understand, the CVL originally used 
ex-GTW 4-8-2 (?) 4070, but it kept breaking down on them.  So the CVL retired
the steamer to the roundhouse and bought three Alcos: ex-BN RS3 4056, ex-D&H
4099, and an ex-CN S3.  4099 was used in regular service in superficially
modified D&H paint and the cars were painted to match it (who could conscion 
painting over the grey and blue lightening stripe, after all?  They did 
replace "The D&H" with "The CVL" in the shields though.)  The air whistle was 
probably an attempt to hide the fact that it was, in fact, a smelly diesel and
not a steam engine pulling the train.  Add the famous Alco smoke and 4099's 
propensity for coating itself in black oil, and the illusion of steam is 
complete.

  By the way, 4099 itself broke down last year, and since the other Alcos 
weren't operable, an emergency replacement was sought, in the person of 
high-hood ex-NS GP30 2572!  They've painted out the NS lettering on the side, 
and in place of the stallion on the front, they've pasted a picture of a 
rather bewildered looking Wylie Coyote, but otherwise, the engine is still in 
full NS black.  I saw this engine on its last run of the season, and was told
that the railroad had fallen in love with it...it's powerful and it's reliable.
Sounds like the typical death-knell for Alcos alright...

-- 
   -----_._._,_,,_,__._._     _._.__,_,,_,_._._----      
  _Ioo I ===        ====I     I====        === IooI____   I~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~I
|_II___I____Santa Fe____I_| |_I__Evan Werkema__I__I___I_| I elw4@po.cwru.edu I
`-~O==O~===========~O==O~-`~`-~O==O~=============~O==O~-`~~o==o~\/~\/~\/~o==o~