HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: phsj@marlin.jcu.edu.au (Su Jianfeng)
Subject:  Do the CMFN promoters believe CMFN is good to China  ? 
Organization: James Cook University
Date: Fri, 20 Nov 92 04:43:44 GMT

When an important action which affect many people, such as lobbying CMFN, is 
carried out, what is the normal procedure to start by the persons who
want to work for others ?   It does not matter whether or not you
support the action.  The first should be to investigate both the good
and bad effects produced by the action and then ask for the opinions of
the concerned people.  

In my memory, when IFCSS first started pushing the CMFN bill two years
ago, they ever carried out a poll on this net and the result of the poll
was favor to their decision, which means that they know they should take
care people's opinions.  As soon as the CMFN action was started, there
were stronge objections appeared on the net and then this kind of poll
have never been carried out again by IFCSS.  What does it mean ?   It
only means that the persons in IFCSS only used CSSer's opinions as tool
for their interests.  As soon as the majority of CSSers disagree with
them, CSSer's opinions become unimportant.  But the amount, 50 K, is
still very important for them to keep the American politician's interest
on them.   

When the CMFN promoters first pushed for CMFN, they claimed which aimed
to promote democracy and human right in China.   When they found many
CSSers disagreed with them, they drop the word "democracy" and only claimed
to promote human right in China.   Now, they have found that there are
many persons give the reason that CMFN hurt Chinese people, thus they only
cliam to improve the human right conditions of those political
prisoners.   The human right of all Chinese people have become those of
political prisoners.   The way to know whether or not Chinese people are
hurt by the bill is very simple.  They only need to organise a poll to
ask the opinions of people in Mainland China and Hong Kong, which is their
responsibility, because their behavours have affected other people.
Unfortunately, this has never been carried out.  Thus, it raises a
question that whether or not they care about human right in China, or
they only use CMFN as a tool to carry out their political careers.  

It is also very important that they started lobbying the CMFN bill only
based on one assumption, "The CMFN bill can push the CG to improve the
human right conditions in China.".   There have never been any other
reasonable reason to be given by them to support their action, which
only means they don't care how the CMFN works and they only want to use
CMFN as a chance to start their political careers in China.



J Su
     Have you seen any reasonable reason given by those CMFN promoters ?


Xref: sparky soc.culture.china:31015 soc.culture.taiwan:15530 soc.culture.hongkong:14817
Newsgroups: soc.culture.china,soc.culture.taiwan,soc.culture.hongkong
From: liuyh@vis.toronto.edu (Yuanhui Liu)
Subject: Re: Political Prostitutes or Democractic Activitists ?
Organization: Department of Computer Science, University of Toronto
Distribution: na 
Date: 23 Nov 92 15:14:41 GMT

In article <wshi.722491996@ponder> wshi@ponder.csci.unt.edu (Weiping Shi) writes:
>In <1992Nov23.023056.2465@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu> mlibucha@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (Mark A Libucha) writes:
>
>>I understand the arguments that economic freedoms in China will lead to
>>human rights. However, I don't agree with them. I'd rather concentrate on
>>getting rid of the madman. And I don't think that the loss of MFN would
>>cause great loss of life in China. 
>
>I see. So you want to replace the madman, I assume Deng Xiao-Ping,
>with a wiseman, something like Gorbachev or Yaltin?

so before you know it, instead of one "car", there will be 15 bicycles.  ;->

>I think you are a madman!


Newsgroups: soc.culture.china,talk.politics.china,soc.culture.taiwan
From: xiaobiao@lynx.msc.cornell.edu.UUCP (X(b)Z,408A Thurston Hall,59155,)
Subject: Re: NEWS: China overseas policy change
Originator: xiaobiao@msc2.msc.cornell.edu
Organization: Cornell-Materials-Science-Center
Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1992 01:32:33 GMT

From article <1992Nov19.120457.90647@vaxc.cc.monash.edu.au>, by mte152s@vaxc.cc.monash.edu.au:
> ......
> Indeed, even after TAM in 1989, an American journalist surprisingly found that
> Chinese students were not stopped by the Chinese Government, rather, they are
> refused by US consulate officials in Peking, who were inforcing a new
> tightenening of visa for Chinese students (see an article in the International

------------------------------------------------------------------------------

The stupid American journalist, like most of his western peers, only looked at 
what happened in Beijing around that time, and got his most misleading answer!
:-((
Newsgroups: soc.culture.china
From: cshi@cs.ulowell.edu (Chunde Shi)
Subject: Re: What pride to take in being a Chinese?
Keywords: Mao Zhuxi,6.4
Organization: University of Massachusetts at Lowell Computer Science
Date: Sun, 15 Nov 1992 17:14:17 GMT

In article <1992Nov15.111922.6068@ms.uky.edu> gang@ms.uky.edu (Gang Li) writes:
>zeng@IASTATE.EDU (Shaohui Zeng) writes:
>
>>I was told to be proud of being a Chinese since I was young. Now I am
>>lost as I come up with this question, what pride to take in being a 
>>Chinese?
>
>I did not chose to be born as a Chinese, God did this to me.
>God is great, I am proud of whoever God wants me to be. If I'll be
>Chinese all my life, God means it, if I'll be nonChinese later, God means it.
>God can not be shamed, so as God's decision.
>Hope this can answer this frequetly asked question.
>If you don't have anything to believe, ....
I just talked to your GOD, he/she/it begs me to tell you GOD is dead!
From: chen@digital.sps.mot.com (Jinfu Chen)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.china
Subject: Re: [ answer ] How is IFCSS's president elected?
Date: 13 Nov 92 18:51:43 GMT
Organization: Motorola, LICD, SPS, Mesa, AZ

In article <BxHB42.1IG@acsu.buffalo.edu> xiaofei@acsu.buffalo.edu (XiaoFei Wang) writes:
>First US president election: each state chooses electors who will
>vote for the voters in the state. These electors will meet and cast
>votes in December in Washington DC. The votes from the electors are
>called electoral votes. The popular votes may be different than the
>electoral votes, which happened to the 11th and 29th presidents. 

You've got it almost right.  However, voters vote for electors who have
pledged to certain presidential candidates.  The ommision of this fact makes
main difference than the IFCSS election.

>The IFCSS president election: each school chooses electors who will 
>vote for the voters in the school. These electors will meet and cast
>votes in the IFCSS conference. There is no manpower to calculate the
>popular votes so they are usually unknown.

Correct me if I'm wrong.  In IFCSS election, I don't believe students have
choice of electors who have pledged to vote for certain candidates.  Rather,
they just pick someone to represent their school, and let the so-called
electors vote for whoever IFCSS presidential candidate is.  Under this
scheme, students have no idea which presidential candidate they are
[indirectly] voting for whereas in US presidential election, voters at least
have a choice.

The US electoral system is fairly old and is based on the assumption that
populace can not be trust.  The IFCSS election system, though established in
modern time, is even worst than the US electoral system.
From: yeh@netix.com (Mr Shannon Yeh)
Subject: Re: FAKE e-mail address and other inappropriate use of usenet
Newsgroups: soc.culture.china
Organization: Netix Communications, Inc.
Date: 19 Nov 92 22:38:50 GMT

lix@thames.bu.edu (Xiaowen Li) wrote:

+In article <2B0B50F9.25692@news.service.uci.edu> yeh@netix.com (Mr Shannon Yeh) writes:
+<(deleted)
+<As an FYI, a Chinese student at "cmu.edu" (Carnegie Melon Univ) tried
+<to jam my network, and their university network director had to shutdown
+<the entire departmental network from where that Chinese student "created"
+<the data traffic.  What a terrible thing--the beautiful ideas of distributed
+
+Congratulation for your success in Gao Yang Zhuang. But I see no reason for

	Congradulations for your success in staying quiet when others 
	Gao-ed more Yang Zhuang about Shannon Yeh.

+emphasizing the word Chinese three times in this paragraph. Chinese are not
+very special for such activities, are we? How about to change them to "a netter",
+"that netter", and "those netters".

	No, I am not going to use "netter", necause I need to stay with
	the fact.  The fact is: there is no non-Chinese user trying to
	jam my network.

+<systems have been abused by those Chinese students for non-productive use.
+<(deleted)


I think that some Chinese students are FaYuu(grow) Bu(not) ZhengChang(normal).
They think that they can Gui3Tou2Gui3Nao3-ly do something behind me, and 
that Shannon Yeh cannot find it out.
	
shannon
-------

PS:
	Li Xiaowen pretends to be in the neutral position, but what he did
	is: When blood carders were WuFaWuTian, he stayed as quiet;
	    When Shannon Yeh attacked those blood carders back, he started
	    to noise.
Newsgroups: soc.culture.china
From: u8123033@cc.nctu.edu.tw ()
Subject: Re: A biker ``flies'' over the Great Wall?
Organization: National Chiao Tung University
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1 PL6]
Date: Sun, 22 Nov 1992 17:30:11 GMT

Lao Zheng, UMIST,1984-1988 (PXW10@psuvm.psu.edu) wrote:
: A Taiwanese stunt man planned to ride a bike ``flying'' over the Great Wall
: on the 14th of this month. Anyone out there knows the result?
: Thanks for any answer,

He succeed. :) 

Well, sorry that I can't find any further news on hand. All what I can
tell you is, the stunt man, Ker1 Sho4-Lian2 was one of the earliest
pioneer of people of his job in Taiwan's movie industry and is well-
known in Taiwan. His attempted was also reported by many medias here.
(Too bad, due to my mid term exam, I missed most of them. :>)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.china
From: guohsu@mercury.cs.uregina.ca (Allen Guo-Ching Hsu)
Subject: Re: good good study, day day up
Date: Sat, 21 Nov 1992 00:15:46 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: University of Regina, SK, Canada

In article <g8F=CX#@engin.umich.edu> hua@engin.umich.edu (CHONGYU HUA) writes:
>
>   
>
>-------------------
>Here is a real one:  
>-------------------
>
>An American friend of mine went to China last year.
>In the Summer Palace in Beijing, he met a very nice
>Chinese guy and they talked a while.  Here's part of
>their dialog I was told:
>
>"Do you come to the Summer Palace quite often ?"
>"Oh, yes. I come here almost every day."
>"How come ?"
>"By Bus."
>
-------------------------
  I think this is not that funny after all. I myself never heard of
  people saying "How come?" after I lived in North America for quite a
  few months. It reminded me that a Chinese friend of mine, who got relatively
  high marks on TOEFL(647) and GRE general(over 2100), and even studied
  in a high rank graduate school in the US for one semester, could not
  understood "How come?" when I talked to him over Internet.
  What do we expect those in China?
  I am wondering if your American friend also explained to/corrected him
  while making the joke of the very nice Chinese guy. 

  Have a good day !

  G.C. Hsu
Xref: sparky soc.culture.china:30650 talk.politics.china:2753
From: pwu@ai.mit.edu (Peng Wu)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.china,talk.politics.china
Subject: heirs to the throne
Date: 17 Nov 92 17:56:57
Organization: MIT Artificial Intelligence Laboratory
NNTP-Posting-Host: blackjack.ai.mit.edu

{Disclaimer: This article was originally posted to other news group,
 it is reposted verbatim with the hope that this news group might find it
 informative.  The view contained in this article is the author's.}Newsgroups: 

Organization: Queen's University at Kingston
Date: Sat, 7 Nov 1992 00:30:53 EDT
From: andy <2893684@QUCDN.QueensU.CA>
Newsgroups: soc.culture.usa
Subject: Re: If clinton/gore die NOW, who succeeds?

In article <1992Nov6.153452.5461@desire.wright.edu>, demon@desire.wright.edu
(Stupendous Man) says:
>
>In article <Bx8M6t.5Cx@newcastle.ac.uk>, w.p.coyne@newcastle.ac.uk writes:
>>
>>   If the president of the US dies there is a long list of
>> "heirs to the throne" starting at the Vice-president.
>> But what if the President and Vice-President elect both
>> die before they have nominated people to fill the different
>> offices of state - who becomes President?
>
>        Speaker of the House.  (S)he would then nominate a VP which congress
>would have to approve.
>
>>    They can't (?) hold another election for 4 years.
>> Does the electoral college decide?  Or is this a
>> situation not considered in the US constitution
>
>        That's a possibility.  If they died before Dec. 14th, the electoral
>college would most likely pick the new Prez.  (Which would hopefully be
>Tsongas/Kemp in whichever order.)

Technically, americans did not elect a President or Vice-President this past
Tuesday, they merely selected electors who will go the their respective
state capitals on a fixed date and vote for whomever they want as Pres and VP.
While they are aligned to specific candidates, nothing requires them to vote
for the candidate they are committed to. In 1976 for example, one Ford elector
actually cast his ballot for Reagan giving him one electoral vote. Thus if
Clinton and Gore are both run over by Bush's campaign bus tomorrow,
the electors could decide on whomever they want as President, it is quite
possible that they wouldn't be able to settle on anyone and the issue would
likely end up being thrown to the House.

Does anyone have any idea who the electors actually are this year?

Oh, I'll bet anyone a doughnut that at least one Bush elector will end up
casting his or her ballot for Ross Perot.
Newsgroups: soc.culture.china,soc.culture.hongkong,soc.culture.taiwan
From: echeng@phys.psu.edu (Eddie Cheng)
Subject: Re: Political Prostitutes or Democractic Activitists  ? 
Organization: Penn State, Department of Physics
Date: Tue, 17 Nov 1992 14:54:54 GMT

In article <1992Nov17.124011.797@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu> mlibucha@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (Mark A Libucha) writes:
>>
>	Let me ask you a question. Imagine someone in your family, maybe
>your father or mother, goes into business in China. After some initial
>success this relative finds himself in competition with some government
>official, and is winning the competition. The government official, in 
>fear of going out of business, arrests your relative and puts him in
>jail for 10 years on some trumped up charges. For example, your relative
>is accused of being a "counterrevolutionary". 

	This is probably just an imagination.  I haven't heard cases like
this, although quite a few government-owned business had gone out of
business from competitions.

>	Now, in this situation, would you support CMFN? Or rather, wouldn't
>you support *anything* that might help eliminate such injustices?

	No, see below.

>	(Yes, I'm an American, and yes, America has injustices, too. That's
>not the point.)

	I think it happen to be a very important point.  That is, you don't
throw out your baby with dirty water.  There is injustice everywhere,
but that does not justify supporting *anything* that *might* help
eliminate such injustice (but also *might* cause great harm at the
same time).

	There had been and still is huge injustice to native Americans
in this land.  It might help eliminate such injustice if all nonnatives
are shipped back to Europe, Asia and Africa, etc.  Wouldn't you
support this idea?



	 Eddie


Newsgroups: soc.culture.china
From: mukherjb@dsuvax.dsu.edu (Basu Mukherjee)
Subject: an appeal to help poor children in india
Organization: Dakota State University, Madison, SD
Date: Mon, 16 Nov 1992 21:12:44 GMT

==============================================================================
		An Appeal To Help Poor Students In India
   Contribute to RAMAKRISHNA MISSION BOYS' HOME, RAHARA, WB, INDIA

Swami Vivekananda once said,'Service to man is service to god'. Following
his footprints, Ramakrishna Mission organizations, established by Swamiji
himself, have been serving the poor and the distressed for about a century. 
Millions of people, including this author have directly or indirectly
benifited from the social-welfare and educational programs of Ramakrishna
Mission. Today, after a century old tradition of service, this organization
faces a daunting challenge in the face of a steep economic crisis. 

Ramakrishana Mission, Rahara is an organization that was established about
thirty five years ago at Rahara, a small village near Calcutta, West Bengal.
What started with  twenty eight orphan students under the auspicious
leadership of Swami Punyananda has , over the years, has grown into an
organization of over a thousand students offering educational services at
all levels. Ramakrishna Mission, Rahara has also a rich tradition of providing
free education to thousands of orphan students over these years and help
them become useful members of the society. Right now, there are 750 orphan
students at Rahara whose future is at stake due to a steep budget crisis and
lack of adequate governmental help.

According to Swami Jayananda, secretary, R.K. Mission, Rahara, it takes only 
14 dollars/month to support an orphan student at school in Rahara. 

We are trying to coordinate an effort to help these poor students by 
contributing to Ramakrishana Mission . 

If you are interested, please send e-mail to
	
	mukherjb@dsuvax.dsu.edu
		or
	ritwik@parrot.creighton.edu.

You may also directly contact

		Swami Jayananda, secretary
		Ramakrishana Mission Boys' Home
		Rahara, 24 Paraganas(N)
		West Bengal - 743186 
		India  
		Telephone - 91-33-531219

Your interested may pave the way for an orphan child to a brighter future.
From: jamesou@zygote.hsc.usc.edu (James Ou)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.china
Subject: Re: big lie
Date: 24 Nov 92 05:17:13 GMT
Distribution: soc
Organization: University of Southern California, Los Angeles, CA
NNTP-Posting-Host: zygote.hsc.usc.edu


In <1992Nov23.4298.38657@dosgate>, "micky wong" <micky.wong@canrem.com>
writes:

>The following is copied from 1990 Time Almanac  without permission
>
>    Authorities made clear that the testimony of strangers is not
>enough. It is a citizen's duty to betray his own kith and kin. The
>Zhou clan, willingly or by coercion, did its duty. Zhou Fengsuo,
>22, a physics student at Qinghua University in Beijing, was among
>the 21 student leaders named by officials last Tuesday as the
>country's most-wanted criminals. The next night on television, Zhou
>was shown being led into a police station for interrogation. The
>scene then shifted to the home of Zhou Yanrong, the student's
>sister. Dandling a baby on her lap, her husband at her side, the
>woman explained that after seeing the wanted notices for her
>brother, she contacted security officials.

I feel very sad every time I thought of this story. Yes, I
remember vividly the TV news that reported this incident. The
sister was portrayed by the Chinese government as a great patriot
who could sacrifice her brother for a "good cause" of the nation.
Most people love their parents, their children, their siblings
and their spouses. How can we expect a person who does not love
his/her family to love his/her country? This just does not make
sense. That was the reason why ancient Chinese said,

     "Zi4 Gu3 Zhong1 Cheng2 Bi4 Chu1 Yu2 Xiao4 Zi3 Zhi1 Men2"
     (Ever since the ancient days, patriots always come from
      families that educate their children to be filial pious.)

CCP is doing it the wrong way. It teaches people to be patriotic
and in the mean time teaches people to put their family values
second. People who can betray their family can easily betray CCP.


***Confucius said, "Ju3 Zhi2 Cuo4 Zhu1 Wang3, Ke3 Shi3 Wang3 Zhe3
Zhi2; Ju3 Wang3 Cuo4 Zhu1 Zhi2, Ke3 Shi3 Zhi2 Zhe3 Wang3."
(If the government uses just people and expels unjust people,
then unjust people will become just. If the government uses
unjust people and expels just people, then just people will
become unjust.)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.china,talk.politics.china
From: xiong@bsu-cs.bsu.edu (Bo Xiong)
Subject: Re: Patriotism sucks (Re:  What the HK governor is doing?  Why?)
Organization: Indiana University
Date: Mon, 23 Nov 1992 07:06:28 GMT

cshi@mga.com (Chunde Shi) writes:
>
>You have done a good work in denouncing patriotism. I consider you as some

As your fellow "patriot" in Iowa, your memory stinks!  I just said
yesterday on SCC about the subject:

"It's more accurate to say 'THE patriots from overseas lick and cheap'
 (especially when they don't have to go back to China and live there :-)"

This doesn't have anything to do with denouncing patriotim, though you
may take it as "denouncing loyalty to the gov't" :-)

>what a spokesman for "D-fighters". There might be none-iedeal elements among

Labelling others as "d-fighter" does change the fact that YOU "PATRIOTS"
love China when and only when you are able to stay abroad, it only makes
your licking the repressive gov't more disguesting (you even aren't able
to find a better word than that provided by the gov't you lick :-)

>"patiotic"(I would not even call them patriotic, what those group are
>advocating is just "please do not do harm to China"!) groups, 

And to be echo bugs of the CCP gov't, who simply repeats what CCP says on 
whatever issues (and make it sound like that you are so "patriotic" blah 
blah blah. (simply read the messages under the original subject and compare 
them to what the gov't says :-)

>as during Sino-Japanese War, anti-Japanese guearilla force
>were disproptionally from wealthier Chinese, because there had more 
>spare time and energy to join in. If you "D-fighters" denounce patriatism,
>please do it oopenly, please do not tell the world that your anti-China
>activities are only ment for CCP, not China. Please do not use China as
>step-stone to advance your status in U.S., Please!

Such as getting jobs in netix.com and mga.com, then become a patriot
from outside of China :-)

>This is my least request for you, a Chinese once before. 

Think about yourselves, "pariots", without Bush's 04-11-1990 executive
order, how many of YOU "patriots" would be able to stay here making a
good life with your families while "loving China"???  (Not to mention
many of you will quietly calim the benefit of the protection bill like 
many of you have done with Bush's 04-11-90 executive order, while
condemning "blood carders" :-).

--------------------------------------------------------------------------

Bo Xiong in Chicago
Newsgroups: soc.culture.china
From: hl2a@kelvin.seas.Virginia.EDU (Haiyan  Liu)
Subject: Re: Somebody tell me why this is wrong
Organization: University of Virginia
Distribution: usa
Date: Tue, 24 Nov 1992 03:30:59 GMT

In article <1992Nov23.144306.61211@cc.usu.edu> ma@cc.usu.edu writes:
>
>much the life of the people INSIDE China. Similarly, the Protection Act has
>nothing to do with the people in China, but it may either protect some people
>or at least provide an easy way to stay in U.S. So there is nothing wrong to
>support both UMFN and the Protection Act.

But the Protection Act will make it difficult to the people who came or will
come after April 11,1990.   It benifit the people who came earlier but still
without Greencards but hurt the people who came afterwards.

>dan easy life. The Act is good to those in U.S.  I also believe MFN is good
>for people inside China and it is unfair to put conditions by one side in
>such a trade issue. Therefore supporting both UMFN and PA is a good choice
>because it makes everybody happy. 

I agree with you in UMFN but the PA would not make everyone happy.