From: mow@hpwin052.uksr.hp.com (Mark Payne)
Subject: Re: What do you charge for a night out?????
Date: Tue, 22 Dec 1992 10:42:43 GMT
Organization: Hewlett Packard Response Centre, England
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1.4 PL6]

>Just curious concerning those who "do" sound for local talent (used loosly :) )
>What do you normally charge and for what services?

I was about to post regarding this stuff.. In a previous discussion, Mur  and
I were "trading jabs" on the subject of technical riders. He was basically 
saying that the band/band soundman should get exactly what they ask for and
my point was at the 500 cap 3K, one night level, they get what I've got.

Now the truth is somewhere between these two points. The PA will be a compromise.. If the band/venue (and normally venue) like my compromises, I get used
again, if not I don't. When I make a mention of my prices, Mur couldn't
understand it (He would need to pull in "BIG FAVOURS" to get at those costs).

What costs..

1K "Vocal" rig.. No subs.. 2 monitors.. 16 Ch.. 1 pair full range.. 100
    this is a "Pub" rig.

2K rig.. 4 subs, 1 pair tops, 4 monitors, 2 mixes.. 24 ch        .. 250

4K rig.. 6 subs, 4 mids, 3 pairs tops, 6 Monitors + drum mon     .. 350
	 on 3 mixes .. 24ch

I will add for distance and unsocial hours. I may deduct for regular work
or guys that I like !

Mur seemed to be talking about 650 for a 4/5K rig.. well this is fair enough
and I would satisfy most tech riders at this level. But with a 500 cap venue
with 300 peeps in it then the promotor has put 2 from his ticket price into my
pocket, then he has lights and the venue and publicity and oh.. the band to 
pay. The gig is NOT going to make any financial sense.

If promotors can't make money, Gigs don't happen and we all go under. This is
real life and why I'm not running round in a 7 tonner (with a tail lift Chris !)and using Court bins and racks full of shit. 

> Is it all
> for fun?? or fun and profit????/

At the moment It's both. This year has been my first serious "Buisness" year
and I'm still full time. I made 11K from the rig (and some supply and install
work) and I put it ALL back in again. My goal for this year was to stop spendingmy own money on sound toys and build a reputation that ... COULD... be the 
foundation of a future buisness.

I am looking at next year to grow the income by 50% and put that back in as 
well.. I can't do anymore with a full time job.. It will kill me and my family.
That takes me to the end of year2 with a paid for rig.

Year3 ?? Well I either make the break or just start taking the jobs I like,
at the money I like and pocket the lot. Always the problem with the big
break is that you run the risk or turning a wonderfull love affair into a 
task master, and end up hating the whole thing. The other problem is that 
MARK PAYNE LTD is already earning good money and will have a hard time doing
as well at the sound game. I'm in love but I ain't stupid.

Comming back to Mur's point on "Market Position". I would say that 75% of my
work to to Venues and Promotors, not directly to bands. The Promotor has the gigand pays the band and me. My customer is the Promotor. In most of these cases
the band are "entertainment" for which they are getting paid. They are not
the "big pull" that they would like to think they are. Maybe 50 peeps out of 
the 250 are paying punters related to the band as such. In this situation 
you can see why a "high Spec" technical rider is shit. The band is getting 
good money to show up and work. The promotor trusts me to do a good job at 
a PRICE that makes his gig happen. I will really work hard to please all partiesbut the band and their sound tech can take the rider thing and shove it.

If the band are a big name and a real pull then this is VERY different and 
to be honest.. this is not where I am at yet. If I was building a Touring
Rig it woyld be at a higher spec to my own rig. I would also expect a LOT 
more DOSH and I would let the Sound Tech have my wife If he thourght it would 
help the gig sound better.

As a foot note to Mur.. I could give you a 4K rig for 350 and it sounds very
nice. I think you are going to turn your nose up at some of the stuff I use.
You would rather pay 700 and get exactly what you [need] want. On my ticket
the punters will have a good time and the band will see an extra 350 at the 
end of the night. You do this a few times a month and one more band member 
can go full time or a few can go part time and commit more energy to the band.

Who is best serving the band.. Me or your technical rider ?? Lets get real.

Regards 

Mark Payne


--
_______________________________________________________________________________
Mark Payne | Mail: mow@hpwin052.uksr.hp.com |  Telephone: (UK) 0735 410580
___________|________________________________|_________________________________
Hewlett Packard, Amen Corner, Cain Road, Bracknell, Berkshire RG12 1HN

I think you will find that HP are not, in any way involved in, influenced by
or responsible for opinions that I express here.... I think....