HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: dave@clark.dgim.doc.ca (Dave Thompson)
Subject: Re: SMOKING BANS at ballparks?
Organization: Communications Canada
Distribution: na
Date: Fri, 8 Jan 93 21:29:49 GMT

In article <1ikhoaINNdkk@meaddata.meaddata.com> brian@meaddata.com (Brian Curran) writes:
>Today's paper reports that the Orioles have become the fifth major-league
>team to ban smoking at their open-air stadiums.  Two questions:
>
>1) What are the other four?
>2) How effective has enforcement of this ban been?
>-- 
>------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>Brian Curran                 Mead Data Central              brian@meaddata.com 

I know the SkyDome in Toronto has banned it also.( Its open-air when the dome
is open) Don't know what the others are though.

Dave
From: ez027993@dale.ucdavis.edu (Gary The Secret's In The Pesto Huckabay)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
Subject: Re: Expos Clinch! Wallach to Dodgers
Date: 4 Jan 93 22:03:35 GMT
Organization: Reviled By Buffoons , Ltd.

>Valentine writes:
>>Roger "Mmm! Delicious!" Maynard writes:
(Anyone else remember that commercial?)

>>Perhaps because Expo FANS who have watched Wallach over the years enjoy
>>watching him play?  Is this a foreign concept?  Is this too radical?

No, It's not too radical, but I would bet that Montreal fans would rather
win with someone else at 3B than lose with Wallach.  Sound reasonable?

>>Can you prove to me that Hansen is better?  When it becomes obvious that
>>Hansen is better then Wallach should be replaced.

Well, I think that's pretty apparent now.  Hansen's no Mike Schmidt, but
I'd prefer 600 PA of him at 3B rather than Wallach.

>Roger, you are an idiot.  Hansen plays for the Dodgers.  The Dodgers
>are replacing him with Wallach at some cost...

I don't want to be the one to defend Roger, and he probably doesn't want that
either, but it's not reasonable to expect Roger to avoid the ad hominems
if people arguing with him don't.
-- 
   Gary Huckabay    . "Promise me that when you're supreme ruler of the      .
 "Waiting for the   .  universe, you'll see that the adman who came up with  .
  Lance Smith Mr.   .  the 'Swedish Bikini Team' will grate cheese in Hell." .
 Peanut Miniseries.". "He'll assist Richard Simmons, Kath.  Go to sleep."    .
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
From: tedward@cs.cornell.edu (Edward [Ted] Fischer)
Subject: Re: Clark v Thomas
Organization: Cornell Univ. CS Dept, Ithaca NY 14853
Date: Fri, 8 Jan 1993 21:01:57 GMT

In article <sterbenc-080193101614@150.130.23.185> sterbenc@ivhs.mot.com (Joe Sterbenc) writes:
>
>I love Big Frank, but you're selling the Thrill short. Depending on who you
>ask, Clark is either the best defensive first base or one of the best.
>Frank is worse than average.

Okay, fine.  So how much of a difference does that make?  (An interesting
note...  Clark used to be below-average defensively too.  Maybe there is
some hope for Frank's defense, if he works?)

>Despite the recent dropoff in SB, Clark can beat Frank
>around the bases if Frank starts at first.

Come on!  He's not *that* slow.  IMHO, he's faster than most first
basemen, which isn't saying much...

>Most importantly, Clark has supplanted his half-brother Jack as the best 
>clutch hitter in the game. He has produced in the clinch consistently
>for years. I don't believe that Frank has done better in the clutch than
>overall to date.

Believe whatever you like, but when you post to the net you should
back it up.  I don't know what the '92 numbers look like, but in both
'90 and '91, Frank Thomas ran a better BA with runners in scoring
position than did Clark.  I'd say the burden of proof is on you, in
any case...

>I wouldn't complain about either of them. If my team was in the Series and
>I needed one of the two, I'd take Clark. In another two years, I might take
>Frank. I'd certainly take Frank as a long-term investment, and am sure
>he will prove to be a better hitter careerwise than Will.

They are really pretty similar players, except Thomas walks 50-70 more
times each year.  And is still young enough that there is a chance he
will get even better.

Cheers,
-Valentine
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
From: roger@crux.Princeton.EDU (Roger Lustig)
Subject: Re: The Best First-base Player in !993
Originator: news@nimaster
Reply-To: roger@astro.princeton.edu (Roger Lustig)
Organization: Princeton University
Distribution: usa
Date: Sun, 10 Jan 1993 02:50:29 GMT

In article <C0M6pC.IIp@news.iastate.edu> vbdiep@iastate.edu (Vinh Diep) writes:
>	While many of you are arguing about Will Clark and Frank Thomas, and 
>one is better than the other, one player that some of you seem to ignore will
>surprise baseball fans in 1993. That All-Star first-baseman is DON MATTINGLY.
> 	Any questions?

Yes.  What's in the pipe?

Roger
From: paula@koufax.cv.hp.com (Paul Andresen)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
Subject: Re: Garvey!
Date: 11 Jan 93 20:21:40 GMT
Organization: Hewlett-Packard Company, Corvallis, Oregon USA

In article <1993Jan8.213423.21129@leland.Stanford.EDU>, dkeisen@leland.Stanford.EDU (Dave Eisen) writes:
|> In article <93008.142307IO21087@MAINE.MAINE.EDU> IO21087@MAINE.MAINE.EDU writes:
|> >I cannot help but think that what hurt Garvey most in his bid for
|> >the Hall of Fame was the bad press he garnered towards the end of his
|> >career. I am speaking of course about the paternity suits he emassed in
|> >San Diego.

*I* can't help but think that what hurt Garvey was his lack of hall of fame
credentials

|> media capital. And before his paternity troubles, had an amazingly 
|> good rep as a person. Kind of like the Don Mattingly of the 70's,
|> although I don't think he was quite the player Mattingly was.

I disagree. Garvey's image was always one of a carefully crafted "goody two 
shoes". He got exactly what he deserved. When Garvey comes up I always like
to quote Don Sutton, who after a club-house fight with Garvey was quoted as 
saying "What do expect from a man with plastic hair".

--->Paul, Dodger lover, Garvey hater
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
              If you're really hip, the passing years will show.
                                           ......Tower Of Power

  paula@koufax.cv.hp.com   Paul Andresen  Hewlett-Packard  (503)-750-3511

    home: 3006 NW McKinley    Corvallis, OR 97330       (503)-752-8424
                            A SABR member since 1979
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
From: RVESTERM@vma.cc.nd.edu
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
Subject: Re: Cecil signs :-( :-( :-(
Date: 11 Jan 93 17:25:47 GMT
 <1993Jan7.224639.26163@cs.cornell.edu> <1993Jan11.072048.3770@athena.mit.edu>
 <1993Jan11.074701.29475@CSD-NewsHost.Stanford.EDU>
 <1993Jan11.164050.27334@athena.mit.edu>

jonathan katz says a bunch of things, beginning with "i don't understand
you guys."  ah.

"cecil is one of the five best first basemen in the league today."  thomas
is better, mcgriff is better, mcgwire is better, kruk is better, grace is
better, bagwell is better, palmiero is better, olerud is better, (will)
clark is better.  that's nine people.  admittedly, a case could be made
that cecil is better than a couple of these, but i also left out a few
(e.g. sorrento) who can have a case made in their behalf that they are
better than cecil.

"his average last year was clearly a fluke."  first, average doesn't matter
all that much, compared to on base percentage and slugging average.  but
whatever.  what makes you think that last year's average was a fluke? why
wouldn't you think that 1990's was a fluke? he's been going steadily
downhill in average (among other things) since 1990.

"his average wasn't _that_bad_ when you think of all the homers he hit."
i agree.  i think everyone here does, too.  i have never heard anyone call
cecil bad.  just average, or maybe a little better than average.  not bad.

"he has been an all star three times, and a starter twice."  all that means
is that fans, such as yourself, think that he is great. it doesn't mean that
he is great.

"i think he would be well on his way to a hof career if he didn't lose so
much time to japan."  he lost one year to japan.  one year.  before that
year, he was a part-timer, a mediocre platoon hitter who had two good
years and two bad years, and never stepping to the plate even 200 times
in any one season.  now for the hof part.  if he gets in, it will be on
the strength of his homers.  say he'll need 500.  that's about 340 more
than he has now.  say he'll hit 40 a year from this point on.  that's
eight and a half years.  eight and a half years of a fat guy going on
30 years of age hitting 40 dingers a year.  he may do it.  i wouldn't
bet the farm on it, though.  i wouldn't bet anything on it, in fact.
but that's just me.

all quotes approximate.

bob vesterman.
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
From: steph@pegasus.cs.uiuc.edu (Dale Stephenson)
Subject: Re: Lists: The Best Players In Baseeball
Keywords: stars best baseball
Organization: University of Illinois, Dept. of Comp. Sci., Urbana, IL
Distribution: na
Date: Thu, 7 Jan 1993 23:54:40 GMT

In <1993Jan7.210130.16004@cs.wayne.edu> dfl@math.wayne.edu (David Frohardt-Lane) writes:

>In article <C0Gww7.98F@cs.dal.ca> niguma@ug.cs.dal.ca (Gordon Niguma) writes:
[...]
>>
>>Best Players Overall:
>>2B: Ryne Sandberg

>Alomar was about even with Sandberg in 1992, maybe just slightly behind.
>(Sandberg creamed Alomar in SLG, but Alomar was ahead in OBP, plus he's
>faster and better defensively).  So for 1993, I think I'd go with
>Alomar.

While I like Alomar better than Sandberg next year, I'm not convinced he's
better than Sandberg defensively.  Sandberg's range factor was 5.36, while
Alomar was a 4.68, lowest in the AL.  Lacking any better information (like
DA), Sandberg looks better -- though not necessarily faster :->.
-- 
Dale J. Stephenson |*| (steph@cs.uiuc.edu) |*| Baseball fanatic

  "It is considered good to look wise, especially when not 
   overburdened with information" -- J. Golden Kimball
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
From: cmk@athena.mit.edu (Charles M Kozierok)
Subject: Re: Riots and Dodgers?
Organization: Massachusetts Institute of Technology
Distribution: usa
Date: Wed, 13 Jan 1993 02:44:43 GMT

In article <1993Jan13.005857.20025@lds.loral.com> mcgill@lds.loral.com (Chris McGill 5471) writes:
>In article <76567@apple.apple.COM> spud@Apple.COM (Dave "Spud" Kalin) writes:
>>>Last year (63-99) was worse than that.  
>>>Winning pct. of .389 was the worst for the Dodgers since 1912.
>>>Losses (99) was the most for the Dodgers since 1908.
>>>Last place finish was the only time since 1905.
>>
>>
>>This may seem like a foolish question, but it could be food for thought: Do
> ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>Yes, I'd have to agree with you there...
>>you think there may have been some correlation between the LA riots and
>>the LA Dodgers?  Now before you go flaming me, consider that the Dodgers had
>>to reschedule a few home games early in the season; the extended road trip
>>early on could have had an effect on morale, and the rest of the season.
>>Also, people in LA may have had more important things on their mind than
>>going to Dodger Stadium (near downtown, btw).
>>
>>Of course, this is all mere speculation.  Let me know what you think.
>Spud, I sure hope this is supposed to be a joke, but I see no smiley's.
>That is about the most preposterous thing I've seen in this group since
>gaining access this month. If you think the riots were about baseball, I think
>you been living inthe world of baseball too long. It's time to come back to
>the real world and see the state of society today. I hope this does not come
>off as too major a flame, but I was truly insulted by this question....
>Peace...but probably NOT in our lifetime...

that's funny... when i first read Spud's post i thought it was totally
ridiculous too. then i realized that he probably was talking about the
impact the riots had on the Dodgers' season, not the other way around!
after all, the riots did happen either before or very early in the
season, didn't they?

perhaps Spud just worded his post poorly. i don't think what he is
saying is true, but i'd hardly call it insulting, provided you look
at it the right way around! let's give him the benefit of the doubt
until he can explain.

--
charles
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
From: bone@luciano.Stanford.EDU (Douglas J. Bone)
Subject: Pecota
Organization: DSO, Stanford University
Date:  6 Jan 93 21:17:43 GMT

In <8364@news.duke.edu> fierkelab@bchm.biochem.duke.edu writes:


>part-time player next year.  The Braves, like the Expos, are (I hope) too smart
>an organization to stay with aging players as starters just because of past
>heroics.  (See all those posts about the Wallach Deal)  Now, can someone tell
>me why we signed Bill Pecota?

The PEcota signing bothered me.  Once Treadway was let go, I assumed the
infield would be 3B-Pendleton, SS-Blauser, 2B-Lemke, IF-Belliard with the
other reserve spot going to Chipper Jones or perhaps Ramon Caraballo.  I
suspect that the Pecota signing was predicated upon the belief that neither
Jones nor Caraballo will be ready for the majors next year, or that they
wouldn't be suited for a reserve role (What positions has Jones played besides
SS?).  Since Pendleton may well be hurt some, I guess they figured a veteran
reserve was needed.  This is the wrong way to go, in my opinion.  I would
bring the youngsters up.  Even if they aren't any good, it is unlikely to be
a disaster.

I think the Braves should give Klesko and Lopez good chances to crack the
lineup.  I would not want to trade Hunter until it had been determined how
he hits RHP.

Schuerhouz(sp?) has been accused of being enamored of 30 year old veterans.
--
Douglas Bone		Internet: bone@luciano.stanford.edu
Standard disclaimers	BITNET:   bone%luciano.stanford.edu@stanford
apply.			UUCP:   ..ucbvax!luciano!sierra.stanford.edu!bone
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
From: drw3l@delmarva.evsc.Virginia.EDU (David Robert Walker)
Subject: Re: HOF
Organization: University of Virginia
Date: Tue, 5 Jan 1993 15:17:24 GMT

In article <C0Cz3C.EuK@cs.uiuc.edu> epstein@cs.uiuc.edu writes:
>In <1993Jan4.162501.27555@ncar.ucar.edu> wildcat@niwot.scd.ucar.edu (Wes Wildcat) writes:
>
>>	I heard the baseball Hall of Fame ballots are out.  The only eligible
>>names are heard were Reggie Jackson, Steve Garvey and Bill Madlock.  Anyone
>>know who is eligible and i wonder if Leo Duroucher(sp) will get in this time.
>
>Here is a list I saw:
>
>        Dick Allen, Vida Blue, Bobby Bonds, Ken Boyer, x-Rick Burleson,
>x-Bill Campbell, Orlando Cepeda, x-Ron Cey, x-Cecil Cooper, x-Doug
>DeCinces, Curt Flood, George Foster, x-Steve Garvey, x-Reggie Jackson,
>Jim Kaat, Mickey Lolich, x-Dave Lopes, x-Hal McRae, x-Bill Madlock,
>x-Gary Matthews, Minnie Minoso, Thurman Munson, x-Phil Niekro, Tony
>Oliva, Tony Perez, Vada Pinson, x-Darrell Porter, Ron Santo, Rusty
>Staub, x-Andre Thornton, Luis Tiant, Joe Torre.
>

The original poster of the HOF question asked about Durocher; a
followup asked about Rizzuto. The baseball writers can't vote on those
guys anymore; its up to the Veteran's Committee, who, having a
penchant of voting for everyone in sight, will put them in sooner or
later.

Of the official list, if I had a vote, I would certainly vote for
Reggie, Allen, Niekro, and Santo. I would consider Blue, Bonds,
Cepeda, Kaat, Lolich, Minoso, Oliva, Perez, Staub, and Tiant. The
rest, including Steve "which one of you is my wife" Garvey, I would
not vote for at all.

Clay D.

Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
From: lbarnes@alexia.lis.uiuc.edu (Laura L. Barnes)
Subject: Re: Hall of Fame voting (read - Disgusted)
Organization: University of Illinois at Urbana
Date: Fri, 8 Jan 1993 05:18:49 GMT

I still can't believe Reggie Jackson made it and Phil Niekro AND Steve Garvey 
(OK, he's marginal, but less so than Jackson IMHO) didn't.  I think that GArvey
was better in all areas of the game including 'intangibles' than Jackson.  
Whsat did Reggie ever do well except mouth off to the press, appear in 1970's 
and early 1980's TV shows, have a candy bar named after him, fight with Billy 
MArtin, and hit home runs in the post-season?  (I'm not a big fan of 
Reggie's!)  Garvey, on the other hand, was a dangerous clutch hitter ALL 
SEASON and reasonably good first baseman.  I plead ignorance on Reggie's 
fielding abilities because I'm a Cub fan, and only tend to watch National 
League games (NO DH!!)  

Anyway, I think Niekro deserved to be elected because he won 318 games AND 
could throw a knuckleball accurately, which is impressive in and of itself!

Feel free to flame away, if there are indeed any Reggie fans in the universe. 
BTW, I don't particularly care for Garvey either, but he was a better player 
than Jackson.  Post-season heroics have never particularly impressed me.

Just my $.02 worth.

Laura
From: gaf5@ns1.cc.lehigh.edu (Gail A. Fullman)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
Subject: Re: Poor Lonnie Smith
Date: 8 Jan 93 20:28:33 GMT
Organization: Lehigh University

In article <1993Jan6.215430.23926@cs.cornell.edu>, tedward@cs.cornell.edu (Edwar
d [Ted] Fischer) writes:
>In article <8365@news.duke.edu> fierkelab@bchm.biochem.duke.edu writes:
>>One thing that doesn't seem to be in dispute is that Lonnie Smith can still
>>HIT!  The Braves tried for two years to trade him to an American League club.
>>Now Lonnie signs with another NL club.  Doesn't something seem wrong here?  If
>>ever a player was meant to play DH, wouldn't it be Lonnie?
>
>Nah.  Then fly balls to LF would be merely routine.  Spoil all the
>excitement...
>
>Cheers,
>-Valentine
>
And to think he used to be the late inning defensive replacement for the Bull!
-- 

------------------------
|   Gail A. Fullman    |
|   Manager - ADMO     |
|   Ext. 83113         |
------------------------
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
From: drw3l@delmarva.evsc.Virginia.EDU (David Robert Walker)
Subject: Re: Hall of Fame voting (read - Disgusted)
Organization: University of Virginia
Date: Fri, 8 Jan 1993 16:58:58 GMT

In article <C0Is3E.KAw@news.cso.uiuc.edu> lbarnes@alexia.lis.uiuc.edu (Laura L. Barnes) writes:
>I still can't believe Reggie Jackson made it and Phil Niekro AND Steve Garvey 
>(OK, he's marginal, but less so than Jackson IMHO) didn't.  I think that GArvey
>was better in all areas of the game including 'intangibles' than Jackson.  
>Whsat did Reggie ever do well except mouth off to the press, appear in 1970's 
>and early 1980's TV shows, have a candy bar named after him, fight with Billy 
>MArtin, and hit home runs in the post-season?  (I'm not a big fan of 

Jackson and Garvey, career, per 600 AB
        ab  r   h   db tp hr rbi  bb  sb  cs
Jackson 600 94  157 28  3 34 104  84  14  7
Garvey  600 78  177 30  3 18  89  33   6  4

Garvey led league in: hits, twice
Jackson led league in: runs, twice; homers, 4 times; rbi, once;
slugging, three times

Garvey in WS: 74,77,78,81,84; hit .319, slugged .407
Jackson in WS: 73,74,77,78,81: hit .357, slugged .755
Jackson led team to WS in '72, but was injured in the LCS
Jackson was always maligned for his fielding, while Garvey was
praised; there is a general consensus that Garvey was so concerned
about not making errors that he was, in reality, a poor fielder (re
players comments that you could always run on Garvey; he was so afraid
of making a throwing error he would just hold the ball.) Garvey's 20
extra hits can't make up for 16 fewer home runs and 51 fewer walks;
thats why he has fewer runs scored and driven in than Reggie.

>
>Anyway, I think Niekro deserved to be elected because he won 318 games AND 
>could throw a knuckleball accurately, which is impressive in and of itself!
>
>Feel free to flame away, if there are indeed any Reggie fans in the universe. 
>BTW, I don't particularly care for Garvey either, but he was a better player 
>than Jackson.  Post-season heroics have never particularly impressed me.

FTR, I am not a Jackson fan; anything that closely associated with
"Yankees" is abhorrent to me. But credit where credit is due: in terms 
of playing baseball, Reggie was far far superior to Garvey. All during the 
regular season. And again in the post-season, but like you, I don't worry 
too much about that. (Sample size, you know :-)

>Just my $.02 worth.
>
>Laura

See your $.02, and call;

Clay D.

Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
From: niepornt@phoenix.Princeton.EDU (David Marc Nieporent)
Subject: Re: Specualtion Of A Coming Orioles Sale
Originator: news@nimaster
Organization: Princeton University
Date: Mon, 4 Jan 1993 21:26:20 GMT

In <1993Jan4.200811.9256@ultb.isc.rit.edu> smm0264@ritvax.isc.rit.edu writes:

>There have been some rumors flying around Baltimore of a possible sale of the
>Orioles.  The current owner(Eli Jacobs) is reportedly asking in the 
>neighborhood of $150 million for the team(he bought it for $75 million 6 
>years ago.

Ah, close, but not quite.  Actually, Eli Jacobs bought the Orioles *2*
years ago.  Yes, 2 years ago, in 1990.  (Well, I guess that's 3 years
ago, now.)

Yeah, and baseball is in real trouble.  The value of a franchise
*doubles* in 2 years, albeit with the aid of a new stadium, and the owners
actually expect us to believe that the game is in trouble?

Record attendance, AGAIN, even during a recession, with ever increasing
ticket prices, and the owners expect us to believe baseball is in trouble.

If sportswriters had any pretension of being journalists, they'd report
*these* things, rather than the lies they print.

(Yes, lies.  I've actually seen sportswriters claiming attendance is down.)

-- 
David M. Nieporent   | Is it too early to start making predictions for 1993?
niepornt@phoenix.    | Probably, but that never stopped me before.
   princeton.edu     | ALE: Baltimore ALW: Chicago NLE: Montreal NLW: Atlanta
Baltimore Orioles 93 | AL MVP: Cal Ripken  AL Cy Young: Mike Mussina
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
From: djcoll04@ulkyvx.louisville.edu
Subject: Re: Expos news
Date: Sat, 9 Jan 1993 22:53:43 GMT
Organization: University of Louisville

In article <1993Jan9.170659.24642@sifon.cc.mcgill.ca>, bspencer@cs.mcgill.ca (Brian SPENCER) writes:
> Here is a summarof some Expos news in the Saturday Montreal Gazette:
> 
> 1) Apparently, Larry Walker is seeking $3M for next season. He said if
> the Expos offered anything in this area, he'll not go to arbitration. In
> my opinion, $3M per year in this market is a bargain. Delino Deshiel has
> been quoted as saying that "What's good for the goose is good for the
> gander" i.e. I want that too!
> 
It's a fine deal.  They've got money left over from the Calderon and
Wallaceals.  Plus, attendance is up.  Look for 35,000+ on at the
opening afternoon home date against Houston on April 13.
 
> 3) Wil Cordero led Puerto Rican Winter League during the regular season
> with a .304 average...a good sign. As many people know, I criticized
> Cordero for his defense, not his offense (let's drop that)

Yes!!!!  His defense is weak.  If it improves he could be a stellar player.

> 
> 5) Dennis Boyd pitched for Felipe Alou's team in the Puerto Rican
> league. There was some mutterings of the Can returning to Montreal (God
> help us) 

They re-habed Martinez.  Besides, Oil Can is my favorite nickname.
I think it would be a great name for my son, but...