HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: whheydt@pbhya.PacBell.COM (Wilson Heydt)
Subject: Re: Saints' Days
Reply-To: whheydt@PacBell.COM (Wilson Heydt)
Organization: Pacific * Bell, San Ramon, CA
Date: Tue, 5 Jan 1993 22:12:09 GMT

In article <MAILQUEUE-101.930105115036.416@flis.toronto.edu> TALLAN@flis.utoronto.ca (David Tallan) writes:
>BUT, while you bring the matter up, I was under the impression that
>sometime within the past century, the Vatican did a "housecleaning"
>of saints, removing from the rolls some of the more "fictional"
>seeming saints (e.g., St. Expeditus, St. George (?), the dog saint,
>etc.)

I think the most famous example from that 'housecleaning' effort was
Christopher--which spawned innumberable tales of poeple offering a
*great* deal on "Mr. Christopher Medals."

	--Hal

        Hal Ravn, West Kingdom
        Wilson H. Heydt, Jr.,  Albany, CA 94706,  510/524-8321 (home)

Nothing in this missive constitutes an act or opinion of the Lord High
Constable of the Kingdom of the West unless otherwise explicitly stated.
-- 
Hal Heydt                    |    
Analyst, Pacific*Bell        |            You!
510-823-5447                 |    Out of the Gene Pool!
whheydt@pbhya.PacBell.COM    |
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
From: ilaine@panix.com (Liz Stokes)
Subject: Re: Aryk on equipment economies of scale
Organization: Panix Public Access Internet & Unix, NYC
Date: Fri, 8 Jan 1993 11:59:39 GMT

In article <9301072024.aa04090@mc.lcs.mit.edu> SAUNDRSG@qucdn.queensu.ca (Graydon) writes:

>[...] Rather like I suspect most fiber types would object
>to hand woven cloth in garb as a minimum standard.)

	nah, *garb* types might object. Fiber types will think it's a great
idea ;-)
					-Ilaine



-- 
Liz Stokes         | 	Ilaine's E-Z Garb Workshop
Ilaine de Cameron  | 	We're going to try an experiment now. Instead of using
                   | 	a loom, we're going to wind all the yarn into balls
ilaine@panix.com   |    and adopt an infinite number of kittens...
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: HELP! name searching.
Date: Thu, 07 Jan 1993 14:04:52

 ]E> Greetings from William de Corbie.

 ]E> Regarding "anti-social" bynames, I gather that by this one means
 ]E> names of a derogatory kind. These were not at all unusual in our
 ]E> period. My impression is that the Scandinavians were particularly
 ]E> fond of giving each other such nicknames. It is sometimes hard to
 My all-time non-favorite registered period derogatory byname <whew> is 
 "Bloodaxe".  While it just sounds SCA-fantasy-biker, it was given to 
 this fellow in period who knocked off his (whole?) family with an ax 
 one day.  Since they were *his* family, he didn't have to pay were-
 gild, but they gave him this byname.  I suppose it should warn off 
 anybody who'd want to get close to the dude, eh?
     Gwenllian Cwmystwyth, Steppes, Ansteorra

 * Origin: Herald's Point * Steppes/Ansteorra * 214-699-0057 (1:124/4229)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
From: habura@vccnw01.its.rpi.edu (Andrea Marie Habura)
Subject: Re: Fighting for Crown..Another question.
Organization: Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute, Troy, NY
Date: Mon, 4 Jan 1993 19:50:22 GMT

Royal pairs: The heads of my household regularly fight for each other in 
the East's crown list. It is certainly allowed. The only restriction is that
the two must fight *for each other*; no daisy-chains like Lord A fighting
for Lady B fighting for Lord C.

Alison MacDermot
From: ds4p+@andrew.cmu.edu (David Schroeder)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: Dollar Cost of Awards
Date: 6 Jan 93 06:13:04 GMT
Article-I.D.: andrew.EfGkIE200WB=81qDke
Organization: Doctoral student, Industrial Administration, Carnegie Mellon, Pittsburgh, PA

Greetings good gentles,

Arenwald von Hagenburg of Lochac makes some interesting comments about
the "costs" associated with getting awards under the current system.
He also makes a reference I'm happy to acknowledge...

> As Bertram would say, just a few comments, I look forward to your
> responses over time. Keep well,

It's always a pleasure to be referenced!  ;-)

I'd also like to add two thoughts...

   First, in most kingdoms you don't become a peer or gain an
   award without traveling...  The costs of getting around to
   events to be seen must be sizable.

   Second, to quote from Matthew, "For where your treasure is,
   there will your heart be also."  Or more appropriately reverse
   the statement -- we put our money into things we love.  I drive
   a four year old car but have up-to-date computer hardware, for 
   example.  

   Another way of interpreting the New Testament phrase
   parallels my long-term feelings about organizations and rewards,
   namely, "What is rewarded is what you will get..."  For instance,
   if business managers are rewarded for short term profits and not
   long term corporate health we end up with sick corporations...

   So the question on awards boils down to "*What* are we rewarding?"

Take care, good friends...  My best to you and yours -- Bertram

+-----------------------------------------------------------------------+
Bertram of Bearington                                      Dave Schroeder
Debatable Lands/AEthelmearc/East               Carnegie Mellon University
INTERNET: ds4p@andrew.cmu.edu                         412/731-3230 (Home)
+------------------------ PREME * Press On * PREME ---------------------+
      "He indulged in every excess, yes in each licentious whim..." 
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
From: gleason@scf16.scf.loral.com (Robert Gleason)
Subject: Estrella
Organization: Loral Space and Range Systems, Sunnyvale, CA
Distribution: rec
Date: Fri, 8 Jan 1993 19:35:13 GMT


Greeting to all,

I am in need of information about Estrella next month. Our
newsletter has very little info about it.  I've never been
there and I have no idea of what to expect. I could at least 
use dates and directions to Goodyear.

Thanks,

Parlan MacGillivray,  the directionless Westie.
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: Non-fighting Royalty
From: kwilliam@wndrsvr.la.ca.us (Karen E. Williams)
Date: Thu, 7 Jan 1993 04:31:40 GMT
Organization: Wonder Server - Public Access for SoCal

dburgdor@cwis.unomaha.edu (Darryl Burgdorf) writes:

> 
> "Civil War", eh?
> 
> I like it, Dennis.  I really do.  ;)
> 
> I'm not sure how *practical* it is, but hey, the current system isn't really
> likely to change, anyway.  So we might as well have some fun with the
> alternatives.
> 
> 	-- Elwyn
> 
> 		(going off to consider plotting an insurrection)

list

/list
Sorry, I'm still learning this thingie, and this is my very first post.
 
Ah, to answer several things I've seen as I've been reading along this 
rainy Caidan evening, Princess Lorissa was ten during her reign...she was 
the monarch of Caid when I joined the Society.
 
Civil war in the manner originally mentioned is practised by the Kingdom 
of Adria, who tend to show up en masse at Estrella.  I have an early 
draft of their rules somewhere in my living room, known as the Filing 
System of Doom.  Like fiber, the FSoD lets SOME things come out 
eventually.
 
Ciorstan MacAmhlaidh
/save

[*> Management may or may not agree with the above comments.
[*> Wonder Server; Just Waffling around... Call 1-310-370-3069
From: Tim@f4229.n124.z1.fidonet.org (Tim)
Sender: FredGate@ocitor.fidonet
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: non-fighting rulers
Date: Tue, 05 Jan 1993 23:37:12

    Anonymous wrote:
 C> In article <726159969.F00002@ocitor.fidonet>,
 C> Tim@f4229.n124.z1.fidonet.org (Tim) writes:
 C> >     Mackenzie wrote:
 C> > 
 C> >  C> It is us who make Royalty special becouse " WE ARE SPECIAL ".
 C> > 
 C> >     As in "Special Olympics" and "Special Education"....

 C> Please be "Special" any way you like, or have the abillity to be.

 Well, ain't that special....

 * Origin: Herald's Point * Steppes/Ansteorra * 214-699-0057 (1:124/4229)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
From: nusbache@epas.utoronto.ca (Aryk Nusbacher)
Subject: Re: Vittorio's response to my post on William's requiring authenticity.
Organization: University of Toronto - Office of the Provost
Date: Wed, 6 Jan 1993 15:44:18 GMT

In article <9301051741.aa22395@mc.lcs.mit.edu> SAUNDRSG@qucdn.queensu.ca (Graydon) writes:

>So, you're looking at a minimum of 2 years and about 1 500 $CDN; I do
>not think it is reasonable to restrict archery contests *or* awards
>to people willing to plunk down an equipment outlay of 1 500 $.


If archery competition were limited to authentic equipment, then economies
of scale would bring the price down.  Your post made it quite clear
that an authentic shooting kit would be a complete special-order, and
that the only person for miles around who would be shooting with
complete authentic kit would be you, Graydon.  As long as it is only
you, Graydon, then it will continue to be very expensive.

Two counter-examples:

Once upon a time, plate gauntlets were considered high-tech luxury
items.  Now they are practically required.

Once upon a time, authentic crossbows were considered high-tech luxury
items.  Now, everybody and his uncle has a Iolo bow (though perhaps
with an aluminium prod) kicking around the apartment.


Aryk
From: leighann@quetzal.sybase.com (Leigh Ann Hussey)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: To Duke Cariadoc
Date: 11 Jan 93 17:48:03 GMT

Your Grace:

If you see this, would you be so kind as to respond; I have a question for you, but cannot find your
email address.

If anybody else is reading this, STOP IT^H^H^H^H^H^H^H please let me know his grace's email address;
that way I should be sure of getting it.

Y'r s'v't
	- Siobhan

----------------
Leigh Ann Hussey
leighann@sybase.com        {sun,lll-tis,pyramid,pacbell}!sybase!leighann
Siobhan ni hEodhusa, ORL, OGB, etc.
Argent, a pale vert, surmounted in base by a lion dormant or, on a chief
wavy vert an Irish harp or.
"The West is the best."  -- Seamas MacMhoire
From: odlin@reed.edu (Iain Odlin)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: timepieces
Date: 12 Jan 93 09:40:06 GMT
Article-I.D.: reed.1993Jan12.094006.26785
Organization: The Stuffed Animal Trauma Team  (We're Trained Professionals)


  Good gentles:  For all of you interested in solar time-pieces (equal-hour,
  portable, sundials, etc) may I recommend "Sundials: Their Theory and Const-
  ruction" by Albert E Waugh and published by Dover books.  It is somewhat
  lacking in historical background (though he does attempt to indicate when
  certain pieces were used), but it is replete with the Why and the How
  of telling time by the sun.

  Enjoy.
-- 
 --------------------------------- Iain Odlin ---------------------------------
                  10 Crosby Street, Level 3, Portland ME 04103
                                 odlin@reed.edu
 ------------------ Pessimist by nature -- Optimist by trade ------------------
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
From: jww@evolving.com (John W. Woolley)
Subject: Re: HELP! name searching.
Date: Sat, 09 Jan 1993 00:30:15 GMT
Organization: Evolving Systems, Inc.
X-Newsreader: Tin 1.1 PL4

brandon@gauss.math.brown.edu (Joshua Brandon) writes:
: Henry did write:
: 
:    I remember some allusion to Scots borderers for bynames [...]
:    The only one that sticks in my mind is David No-Good-Priest.
: 
: I was looking through an encyclopedia article on some aspect of early
: Norman-English history recently and noted the surname "Mauclerc", which I
: assume refers to a lousy scholar....

I would have thought that "No-Good-Priest" was merely a translation of
"Mauclerc", although "poor scholar" would be another possibility.  (Not
"lousy", which has special significance in period.)  "Clerk" used to
have much the same meaning as the modern "cleric", or "clergy[man]".
--
Fr. John Woolley         For al so siker as In principio,
jww@evolving.com         Mulier est hominis confusio, --
                         Madame, the sentence of this Latyn is,
                         "Womman is mannes joye and al his blis."

-- 
Fr. John Woolley         For al so siker as In principio,
jww@evolving.com         Mulier est hominis confusio, --
                         Madame, the sentence of this Latyn is,
                         "Womman is mannes joye and al his blis."
From: Longshot@f19.n291.z1.fidonet.org (Longshot)
Sender: FredGate@ocitor.fidonet
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Bardic echo
Date: Wed, 06 Jan 1993 14:53:32

A node called Dave Aronson coded to node All,
on 17 Dec 92  15:16:16, about Through a looking glass, darkly;

 DA> troll@sug.org (A. Newman) writeth:
 
 AN> Join the Storytellers Mailing list!  storytellers-request@world.std.com

 DA> Have you considered taking over the Bardic list, which appears to be
 DA> dead (as in not just unused, but broken)?  We of Fidonet are starting
 DA> to use it more and would LOVE to have some Usenet folks join in - just
 DA> tell me a working address!  Otherwise, we're going to declare it a
 DA> "colony" of the Fidonet Medieval echo, thus part of my "empire"....

lo'
   Dave, just wanted to let you know to expect bits of the Barony of Vatavia,
Kingdom of Calontir to be arriving in the Bardic Echo shortly.   
                                                                ~ Aindries


... Joan of Arc is alive and medium-well.
 * Origin: Calontir -- We Deliver. (1:291/19.0)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
From: schuldy@progress.COM (Mark Schuldenfrei)
Subject: Re: Thinkwell; Drachenwald ideas; Alternate Crown Types
Organization: Progress Software Corp.
Date: Wed, 6 Jan 1993 23:25:12 GMT

Hal Ravn wrote:
  It occurs to me that there is (somewhere--certainly in West Kingdom
  Law and I *think* in Corpora) a requirement for the Royalty to
  'consult with the Order(s)' before elevating anyone to them.

Corpora 8/1992
  VI.A.2.a.4: The Crown may elevate subjects to the Peerage by granting
  membership in one of the Orders conferring a Patent of Arms, after
  consultation with the members of the Order, and in accordance with the
  laws and customs of the kingdom.  Restriction:  to advance a candidate
  to the Order of Knighthood, a Knight of the Society must bestow the
  accolade. (See VII.A.4.a.)

Hal, again:
  I don't seem to recall anything that binds to consult *only* with the
  specific order in question.

True enough.

	Tibor
--
Mark Schuldenfrei (schuldy@progress.com)
[I'm just showin' you my opinions: this ain't a gift]
From: doconnor@sedona.intel.com (Dennis O'Connor)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: dollar cost for awards
Date: 11 Jan 93 11:03:27
Organization: Intel i960(tm) Architecture
NNTP-Posting-Host: potato.intel.com
In-reply-to: icklinck@cayley.uwaterloo.ca's message of Mon, 11 Jan 1993 15:38:40 GMT


icklinck@cayley.uwaterloo.ca (Ian "Rhys" Klinck) writes:
] However, I do agree with the sentiments expressed in your missive.  I,
] personally, shoot a modern recurve.  I would like to "upgrade" to a "real
] longbow" eventually, but between the cost and what I know it will do to my
] scores, I'm really hesitant.  I guess if longbows were given special
] consideration (as little as a separate class, even - which, I suppose, would
] require more longbow(wo)men than there are currently, to make it worthwhile),
] that would counter the scoring problem... 

In Atenveldt, you can earn rank (Novice, Bowman, Yeoman, Forester, Bowmaster...)
in each of the Open (all non-crossbows), Longbow and Crossbow categories.
Longbow does allow fiberglass longbows, and has a minimum draw weight
requirment of 45 pounds. Longbows can be shot in the Open category.

--
Dennis O'Connor			doconnor@sedona.intel.com
From: tip@lead.aichem.arizona.edu (Tom Perigrin)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: A woodplane in a device?
Date: 11 Jan 93 23:57:42 GMT
Organization: A.I. Chem Lab, University of Arizona

Unto the Heralds of the Rialto, doth Thomas Ignatius Perigrinus send his 
humble greetings,

Good Heralds, I crave from you a boon of help and advice, in a matter most
sore vexing, but now sore pressed upon me as well.   For one score years less 
one year I have been priviledged to call myself a member of our fair Society.
In antique days long passed by I twice did assay to create and register 
a device with our College of Heralds, and twice I was rebuffed in a fashion 
most discouraging.  And thus I said unto myself, let this pass, for it is
a matter of no import to a simple scholiard.

But now, their Most Gracious Majesties Trelon and Varia have elevated me with
an Award of Arms, and so I am now charged to consult with the College and
it's Heralds, to choose and register a device.   I fear me that I would ne'er
disobey these two most Magnificent and Gracious Magesties, and so once
again into the fray I throw my poor wit, against the massed nay-saying might
of the College of Heralds.

My Lords, pray, take pity upon this poor scholiard, who had found comfort
in humility in the eyes of man and God, and pray, help me in this my quest.

I have thought long and hard, and I find that an I wert to be represented
by any device, it should not be a lordly one of stars, or moons, or ermine,
or gold.  My device should, I think me, reflect my humble origins and
remind me that even though ennobled, it is not by my hand but by the Hands
of Their Most Gracious Magesties.  I remain a simple scholiard, who hath
been elevated from the ranks of common joyners and turners.

Thus, I would ask, would a simple woodplane proper, upon a single tincture,
find favour before the College of Arms?

I fear me to seal this missive, for twice I have addressed the College of Arms
with desire in heart, and twice have my desires been dashed. But mayhaps
God in his wisdom hath decided that a dozen years and more of humilty
has served to cleanse my heart, and so mayhaps this small boon may be
granted unto His now repenetent and humble servant.  And so, in hope,
but moreso in humilty, I remain,

Thy Humble and Obedient Servant
Thomas Ignatius Perigrinus
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
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From: mikes@cs.indiana.edu (Michael Squires)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: antipathy to fencing
Summary: Easy source
Date: 10 Jan 93 17:08:28 GMT
Organization: Indiana University, Bloomington

In article <1993Jan8.231044.7601@progress.com> schuldy@progress.COM (Mark Schuldenfrei) writes:
>Graydon writes:
>  My feeling about this is that SCA fencing has exactly the same problem
>  SCA archery does; it is a modern activity in funny clothes.
>

In the Museum Replicas catalog is a book that turns out to be a summary of the
works of de Grassi, Saviolo, and Silver.  The authors don't
seem to have looked much at primary sources nut it is easy to get and 
easily applied to both fencing and armored fighting.
-- 

Mike Squires (mikes@cs.indiana.edu)     812 855 3974 (w) 812 333 6564 (h)
mikes@cs.indiana.edu          546 N Park Ridge Rd., Bloomington, IN 47408
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
From: jdoucette@venus.cc.hollandc.pe.ca (I rush forward with my spear set in a charge!)
Subject: Authenticity
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41    
Keywords: DANGER
Organization: Holland College - Charlottetown PEI
Date: Sun, 10 Jan 1993 05:03:00 GMT

	Although I am still in limbo and for the moment primarily soaking 
up the various threads on the Rialto, the post on legislating authority 
caught my eye enough that I thought I'd post something.
	If there are laws saying "You must wear X and Y and Z" or things 
along those lines for kit, then be prepared to lose people.  The area I am 
trying to start a chapter in has the second highest unemployment in the 
country and I fear that when I go to potential members and say "You're 
going to be looking at spending X amount of dollars" (which will be 
considerable) the potential members are going to run scared.
	The best way I can put this is to use an exerpt from "The Misplaced 
Legion".  The conversation was about Roman legionaries starting to worship 
gods other than Rome's and the centurion was going to order them to stop.  
The tribune responded by saying "You can't order them to feel Roman -- it 
has to come from within.  If you order them, they'll buck and soon they'll 
stop wanting to be Roman. And that shall be the day they stop being Roman".
	That was more-or-less what the tribune said and I think it applies 
here.  You can't order people to have fun and put out the expense to be 
authentic.  You have to make them want to be authentic.  If you can show 
how being authentic helps to up the fun-meter, then the results you want (
more authenticity) will follow of its own accord.

John Doucette, soon to be SCAdian

Go maire tu i bhfad agus rath.
From: ds4p+@andrew.cmu.edu (David Schroeder)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: Oldest/Youngest Rulers
Date: 4 Jan 93 05:13:16 GMT
Article-I.D.: andrew.gfG5EAe00WB6E=ea80
Organization: Doctoral student, Industrial Administration, Carnegie Mellon, Pittsburgh, PA

Excerpts from netnews.rec.org.sca: 4-Jan-93 Re: Oldest/Youngest Rulers
by Charles Parr@acs.ucalgar 
>>Hanno won Eastern Crown when he was 17, and was king at 18.
>>
>>Aryk
> 
>How did he do as King?

Hanno was actually a bit older than that -- more like 19 when he
won and 20 when he ruled.  He did, as one might expect, no worse
and no better than most...

Take care -- Bertram

+-----------------------------------------------------------------------+
Bertram of Bearington                                      Dave Schroeder
Debatable Lands/AEthelmearc/East               Carnegie Mellon University
INTERNET: ds4p@andrew.cmu.edu                         412/731-3230 (Home)
+------------------------ PREME * Press On * PREME ---------------------+
      "He indulged in every excess, yes in each licentious whim..."
From: mitch@novavax.UUCP (Mitch Silverman)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re^2: Non-fighting Royalty
Date: 5 Jan 93 03:35:19 GMT
Organization: Nova University, Fort Lauderdale, FL

doconnor@sedona.intel.com (Dennis O'Connor) writes:

>dburgdor@cwis.unomaha.edu (Darryl Burgdorf) writes:
>] Given that *no* method of "choosing" royalty is period ...

>There is one period method of "choosing" royalty the SCA could use :

>			Civil War.

Well, the last Prince of Trimaris (Sir Seosaidh mac Seosaidh) did
something similar--rather than have the preceding Prince (Sir Baldar
Longstrider, I believe) 'coronet' him, he took advantage of his 
Scots persona... and did a Robert the Bruce.  "I have killed my
liege!" he said, and, as his men-at-arms finished the job, one said
"No, my lord, ihe lives still!" (Or words to that effect.)  It made
for *marvelous* theater, siiting in Court and watching the two of
them roll around on the ground fighting over a (safe but pretty
authentic) knife.  Ahh, those were the days.

There is something similar I've been noddingly interested in, a
dispute-resolution procedure from period that isn't used in the 
Society, that would (IMHO) work well--provided it were *not*
used for serious problems.  (I mind the time that one Trimarian
gentle stood before the Court, accused of stealing another
gentle's sheep--fun stuff.)

How about trial by battle?  The two sides petition the Crown
or Coronet, take up arms, and whoever wins must have been right.
Single combat, melee, individuals *and* households who are
(again, not authentically) at odds.  Hey, it'd give fighting
households an excuse to fight!

What I have in mind is to document the forms and procedures used
in medieval trial by battle, then write it up for T.I. or some such.

Any thoughts?  This isn't something I intend to do next month, either.
Perhaps when I graduate from law school....

Melech Lazer ben Nuchum Schmuel ben Melech

Mitchell L. Silverman              | As Voltaire never said, "I
Student, New College of            | disagree with what you say,
the University of South Florida    | but will defend to the death
Reply-to: mitch@cfraix.cfr.usf.edu | your right to say it."
From: Patricia.Thorp@f56.n105.z1.fidonet.org (Patricia Thorp)
Sender: postmaster@therose.pdx.com