HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: kautaj@copper.ucs.indiana.edu (john kauta)
Subject: Re: the new 'Africa'
Organization: Indiana University, Department of Mathematics.
Date: Wed, 22 Jul 1992 15:43:43 GMT

In article <1992Jul20.013819.28854@news.uiowa.edu> manhica@icaen.uiowa.edu (Artur Simiao Manhica) writes:
>Dear friends:
>	There is so much arrogance where most of the articles
>seem to focus on 'poor dear brothers' in SA.  Isn't it about 
>time to talk about the real AFRICA?  Apartheid will never die
>it is much worse on the rest of the continent:
>Blacks on blacks (tribal)
>Blacks on Arabs  (regional)
>Arabs on blacks (religion) etc, etc.
>	Did you know that a SA black has many more rights than
>a Mozambican black?  If ever a leader of a SA black movment 
>desappeared...the UN would send an investigator! Was there any
>upheavel when Ouko (from Kenya) died in misterious circunstances,
>which were not so misterious to the people?  Was anyone jailed
>for killing one of the brightest minds in recent Africa?  
>Meanwhile if Mandela's dog had puppies we would have known !!!
>	SA is becoming an escape goat and is hinderig on the 
>rest of Africa's most pressing issues.  But then who cares 
>about the rest of the continent?!
>
>A luta continua!
>
>Artur Manhica,
>
>(don't ignore them because they are dying,
>one day it could be YOU)
>

Oh boy! It almost escaped my mind.....I had completely forgotten that savage
RENAMO hounds and hordes of sympathizers roam freely in the US (and SA).

Adeus,

Joao
From: varvel@plains.NoDak.edu (Andrew Varvel)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.african
Subject: Re: Lies, %%$&* Lies, and Statistics
Date: 23 Jul 92 17:59:38 GMT
Article-I.D.: plains.19306
Organization: Unicversity of North Dakota, Grand Forks

In article <1992Jul22.064750.8979@hippo.ru.ac.za> ccfj@hippo.ru.ac.za 
(F. Jacot Guillarmod) writes:
>In <19255@plains.NoDak.edu> varvel@plains.NoDak.edu (Andrew Varvel) writes:
>>In article <1992Jul18.152758.5167@hippo.ru.ac.za> ccfj@hippo.ru.ac.za 
(F. Jacot Guillarmod) writes:

>>>There are already a few mutters of dissatisfaction about this.  After
>>>all, if there is no breakdown by race in various statistics it becomes
>>>difficult to show that there is possible discrimination in, say, housing
                                                                    ^^^^^^^
>>>loans by banks.
   ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>>There is a very legitimate point here.  However, I doubt that taking racial
>>statistics would combat this problem.  What would keep bankers from lending
>>copious amounts of money to "friendly" blacks (say, the IFP) and "not having
>>enough money" for ordinary South Africans?  This would certainly obfuscate
>>the issue, and make the use of racial statistics worthless.
 
>The point is that the mutters of dissatisfaction are coming from trade
>unions such as Cosatu and community organisations, who no longer have a
>measuring stick to see if discrimination is on its way out or not.  If
>you want to find out whether "affirmative action" is working at a
>university, how do you get the numbers of "black" or "white" students
>if race is not recorded anywhere?

Which seems to say that the Nats and Conservatives aren't the only people in
favor of some kind of group rights.

>As it's easy to get misunderstood in this newsgroup, I'm not saying that
>race is a relevant thing to record - only that not recording it has some
>unexpected results.

Quite true.  However, not recording religion (or lack thereof), sex, sexual
orientation, language, home language, home dialect and/or accent,
handicapped status, level of poverty, rural/urban status, and physical
proximity of one's home to and/or access to public ameneties (such as
libraries, swimming pools, uctvax, etc.) would have have similar results.

There are advantages and disadvantages to group rights.  I have my own
opinions.  If there are good opposing arguments, that's fine.  I welcome
them.
 
>>If group rights are what you want, so be it.  It seems to me that idea
>>of group rights is quite medieval.  It also seems that there may be people
>>other than you who may have doubts about a medieval-style constitution.#

>This isn't the first time that, by trying to explain something of
>academic interest, I get lumbered with being an "apologist" for the
>concept or for something totally unrelated to it. :-(

If I lumbered you with being an "apologist" for a concept, please excuse me.
       
--Andrew Varvel--
From: csfraw@kullero.uta.fi (Francis Akoto)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.african
Subject: Re: Olympics
Date: 28 Jul 92 09:22:46 GMT
Reply-To: csfraw@kullero.uta.fi (Francis Akoto)
Organization: University of Tampere, Finland

In article <-pyx_8n@rpi.edu> adelaf@rpi.edu writes:
>The Olympic games recently began and I wonder :
>Have any African cities bidded to host the games ever? If not, why not?

NO, because firstly the money is simply not there and we lack a lot of basic
facilities for sports.

>Is they are conspiracy against potential African host nations or is the
> continent simply uninterested? 

Conspiracy............  :-) :-)

>It seems to me that there is a lot to gain from hosting the games - 

And there can be a lot of lose. It invovles a lot of money not only fo sports
facilities but hotels, communication, tranportation etc. We simply cannot 
afford these things now.

>
>I remember that Nigeria bidded to host a FIFA  World Cup tournament a few
> years back, but I can't remeber what happened.

Fifa found out that there were not enough international standard stadiums in
the country, and both communication and transportation was not adequate. And
come to think of it Nigeria is one of the richest African countries south of 
the sahara.

>Secondly, will anyone keeping track of "African Olympic medals" please post
> the news?  The U.S. media isn't quite interested in African achievements!!!

As at 28/7/92 no african nation has won a medal. In the football these are
the african results

  Egypt 0 Qatar 1
  Egypt 0 Spain 2   ........ Egypt are out of the competition.

 Morroco 1 South Korea 1

 Ghana 3 Australia 1



--
Francis A-Akoto             | csfraw@vehka.cs.uta.fi| Who the cap fits let
Department Of Comp. Science | csfraw@kielo.cs.uta.fi| them wear it . 
PL 607                      |                       |
33101 Tampere,Finland       |                       |         - Bob Marley
Newsgroups: soc.culture.african
Subject: <None>
From: aali@vax1.umkc.edu
Date: Thu, 23 Jul 1992 16:06:03 GMT
Organization: University of Missouri - Kansas City
Keywords: Somalia
Summary: Somali crisis highlighted

This week, the main US media organizations found some interest in the 
Somali crisis. This new attention is due to the visit of Senator Nancy
Kazebaum of Kansas to the Somalia's capital, Mogadishu, and refugee camp in
 northern Kenya last monday.  On her return and before her departure, the
senator tried to shed light on the disaster in Somalia and convince the US
government to take more pro-active attitude toward the Somali situation.
She advocates for UN intervention  and large increase in food aid to the
starving people in that country.  while she is critical of UN and US inaction, 
she denounces "the warlord" of Mogadishu, Ali Mahdi and Aidid whose actions
resulted the virtually destruction of the city and death and starvation of 
tens of thousands.  She notes that while most food aid from the international
community went to Mogadishu area, yet starvation seemed to be more pervassive
in that area then the rest of the country.  The food is simply looted by these
two factions of Mahdi and Aidid in effect leaving the weak to starve.  
Senator Kazebuam, a senior senate Foreign Relations Commitee, has being active 
in pushing the international community to give more attention to the Somali 
tragedy.  This week, she succeeded in highlighting the ugly situation in
Somalia but it is yet to be seen if her efforts will bring about  US policy
change toward Somalia.  Senator Kazebuam testifies before the House Commitee
For Hunger today.
From: randy@psg.com (Randy Bush)
Subject: Re: The point... why turn Gavin African?
Organization: Pacific Systems Group, Portland Oregon, US
Distribution: za
Date: Sun, 26 Jul 1992 04:44:35 GMT

gavan@UCT_elc.mth.uct.ac.za (Gavan Tredoux) writes:

> Actually, spending on black education has increased 6000% since 1970.

Gak!  Considering what I saw of township schools in 1990, I can not imagine
what things could have been like in 1970.  What is 1/60th of a cinderblock
or mud cube with no chairs, no desks, no books, no blackboard, ...?

Decades absence of universal comprehensive education may be the single most
long-term and pernicious problem that SA faces.  Unless it is overcome ten
years ago (sorry, no time machine here), you may be doomed.

Just look at what similar, but far less extreme, policies (albeit informal)
have caused here in lotus land.  Now up it a couple orders of magnitude.

randy
-- 
randy@psg.com   ...!uunet!m2xenix!randy
Newsgroups: soc.culture.african,sanet.talk.politics
From: gavan@UCT_elc.mth.uct.ac.za (Gavan Tredoux)
Subject: Re: Conscription of Whites into the SADF
Date: Mon, 27 Jul 92 13:51:34 GMT
Organization: University of Cape Town
X-Newsreader: Tin 1.1 PL4

scott@concave.cs.wits.ac.za (Scott Hazelhurst) writes:
: In <1992Jul26.170309.20622@ucthpx.uct.ac.za> gavan@UCT_elc.mth.uct.ac.za (Gavan Tredoux) writes:
: [Disputes my view that the  Supreme Court cannot rule on Acts
: of Parliament, offers counter-examples and logical argument to support
: his view]
: 
: Counter-examples offered
: Most of the counter-examples are cases that took place before 1960.

I take it you're agreeing with me then, Scott. The reason why most of this
was earlier than recent history is simply because of the way the
Nats took over the courts by packing them with their own people, like
Steyn and company, who pursued a minor role. 

With regard to the logic of acts, if a clause is found to be logically
contradictory, IN THE OPINION OF THE COURT, it has no force in law.

Gavan Tredoux
UCT
From: kautaj@copper.ucs.indiana.edu (john kauta)
Subject: Re: Somalia crisis in perspective
Keywords: Somalia, crisis, starvation, Africa, aid
Organization: Indiana University, Department of Mathematics.
Date: Sat, 25 Jul 1992 15:58:00 GMT

In article <antbh.711896628@strix> antbh@strix.udac.uu.se (Bernhard Helander) writes:

[STUFF DELETED]
>In that context it wouyld only seem fair if Israel would pay some of the 
>money it takes to save the Somali people from becoming extinct. after all,
>Israel has the Somalis - or rather the ex-president Siyad Barre - to thank
>for their nuclear arms cooperation with South Africa. For years Siyad Barre
>allowed South African Air force planes bound for Israel to refuel at the 
>Mogadishu Airport, masqued as 'Commorish Airlines'.
                                ^^^^^^^^^

What happened to those *western* mercenaries who used to run the Comoros??
Funny how silent the UN was during the whole ordeal (which lasted many years.
I am not sure if these "soldiers of fortune" left the Islands). Maybe the 
whole thing wouldn't have happened in the New World Order....

J.K.
From: gavan@UCT_elc.mth.uct.ac.za (Gavan Tredoux)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.african,sanet.talk.politics
Subject: Re: The point... why turn Gavin African?
Date: 26 Jul 92 15:07:09 GMT
Organization: University of Cape Town
X-Newsreader: Tin 1.1 PL4

ccfj@hippo.ru.ac.za (F. Jacot Guillarmod) writes:
: In <1992Jul26.044435.26430@psg.com> randy@psg.com (Randy Bush) writes:
: 
: >gavan@UCT_elc.mth.uct.ac.za (Gavan Tredoux) writes:
: 
: >> Actually, spending on black education has increased 6000% since 1970.
: 
: >Gak!  Considering what I saw of township schools in 1990, I can not imagine
: >what things could have been like in 1970.  What is 1/60th of a cinderblock
: >or mud cube with no chairs, no desks, no books, no blackboard, ...?
: 
: Using U.S. military terminology of a tooth to tail ratio, most of this
: supposedly increased spending probably went on the particularly useless
: bureaucratic "tail".

Maybe, and of course the DET has been plagued by corruption, so a lot of
it may have been stolen. Being level headed though, much the same would in all
probability happen to any future increase in spending. Ergo, we cannot
rely on spending alone, even if we could get the money, to solve the
education crisis; it would largely be swallowed by prebends, nepotism,
the bureaucracy, and eventually trickle down to those who need it. 

This makes preserving what we have all the more important. That is not
happening, and that's largely due to the use of schools as political
battlegrounds, consciously and deliberately.

Anyone doubting the accuracy of the 6000% figure is welcome to look it up.
It's quite well known. Try John Kane-Berman's The Silent Revolution.

Gavan Tredoux
UCT
From: kautaj@copper.ucs.indiana.edu (john kauta)
Subject: Re: If Gavan was black!! chapter 3
Organization: Indiana University, Department of Mathematics.
Date: Wed, 22 Jul 1992 17:49:45 GMT

In article <1992Jul22.151619.26372@news.cs.brandeis.edu> mokaba@binah.cc.brandeis.edu writes:
>
>More to come in the next episode ......

Ke emetse ditaba tse di latelang ebile ke fela pelo........


J.K.
From: ccfj@hippo.ru.ac.za (F. Jacot Guillarmod)
Subject: Re: Olympics
Organization: Rhodes University, Grahamstown, South Africa
Date: Tue, 28 Jul 1992 06:50:21 GMT

In <fpyxt0n@rpi.edu> adelaf@rs6124.ecs.rpi.edu (Festus Adelabu) writes:

>Secondly, will anyone keeping track of "African Olympic medals" please post the news?  The U.S. media isn't quite interested in African achievements!!!

Keep an eye on the newsgroup "rec.sport.olympics".  There appears to be
a pretty  comprehensive posting of results, as well as a running medal
count for the various countries.
-- 
  F.F. Jacot Guillarmod     PO  Box 94     \        |     ccfj@hippo.ru.ac.za
  Computing Centre       Grahamstown 6140   \      /     +27 461 22023 xt 284
  Rhodes University        South Africa      ;___*/   33 18 30 S | 26 31 45 E
From: wsargeant@igc.apc.org (Winslow L. Sargeant)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.african
Subject: IPS:Mozambique, Chissano/Renamo talks e'
Date: 27 Jul 92 14:23:07 GMT

/* Written 12:07 am  Jul 27, 1992 by newsdesk in cdp:ips.englibrary */
/* ---------- "MOZAMBIQUE: CHISSANO/RENAMO TALKS E" ---------- */
Copyright Inter Press Service 1992, all rights reserved.  Permission to re-
print within 7 days of original date only with permission from 'newsdesk'.

Area: Agriculture
Reference: Europe, western; Disarmament & Peace
Title: MOZAMBIQUE: CHISSANO/RENAMO TALKS EXPECTED TO SPEED UP PEACE

process

rome, jul 24 (ips) -- the meeting between mozambique's president
and the leader of the armed opposition movement, renamo, to be
held in italy next month, will speed up the mozambican peace
process, italian mediator mario rafaelli told ips on friday.

the meeting between president joachim chissano and renamo
leader alfonso dakhlama, their first since the start of the civil
war 16 years ago, will be held on aug. 4, and not aug. 3 as was
announced earlier.

rafaelli stated that the parties will not sign the final peace
agreement to end the war which has caused over a million deaths,
at the meeting, which will also be attended by zimbabwean
president robert mugabe.

he said that the encounter was extremely important and would
accelerate the discussions which have been taking place in rome
on constitutional amendments and military issues such as the
cease-fire and the formation of a single army.

the italian official added that he expected the final accord
to be signed within a year, bringing peace to mozambique, where a
million lives are threatened by a severe drought.

on july 16 delegates of the two parties signed an agreement
allowing humanitarian aid to be distributed in the country.
(end/ips/trd/so/jp-cs/mv/kb/92)
----


Newsgroups: soc.culture.african
From: philip@ziggy.stanford.edu (Philip Machanick)
Subject: Re: >>Theft of land
Reply-To: philip@ziggy.stanford.edu (Philip Machanick)
Organization: CS Department, Stanford University, California, USA
Date: Tue, 21 Jul 1992 22:46:54 GMT

In article <1992Jul21.190549.202062@uctvax.uct.ac.za> hllhar01@uctvax.uct.ac.za  
writes:
> most certainly do sympathize with people who lost land or weren't able to
> purchase houses because of Apartheid, but at the same time I'm saying that  
even
> without Apartheid things wouldn't have been very different.

I wasn't addressing land confiscation. (Though of course the thread may have  
started that way in previous articles.)

> Now here I actively disagree with you, and for two reasons:
> 
> (1) The amount of total area of land which blacks were forced to vacate is in
>     fact very small in comparison with the area of land owned by whites at  
the
> time. Hence this reallocation of land didn't make a large percentage  
difference
> to the total amount of land owned by whites in 1910 say. Also, most of the  
land
> in question was situated in rural areas. Ergo, as a percentage, 
> the number of whites who benefitted from the exercise has to be small (even 
> counting those who derived indirect benefit as you outlined above). 

Again I wasn't arguing this.

> Even without Apartheid, blacks wouldn't have been able to buy much land etc.
> This is because before Apartheid the black-white economic divide was already
> well-established. White ownership was steadily increasing and black ownership
> was steadily decreasing, and such patterns have the habit of persisting,
> given no intervention.

Who says there has to be no intervention?

The government built whole new cities like Soweto, then insisted that blacks  
could only live in them as tenants. On the other hand, when they built  
sub-economic housing for poor whites, they allowed the option of outright  
purchase (in other words they gave poorer whites the option of capital  
accumulation through property ownership while denying it to blacks).

Are you going to tell me the number of people affected by this issue in Soweto  
alone is insubstantial, or that this is not a consequence of apartheid?

There is still the possibility of at least partially correcting this imbalance  
by allowing renters the option of taking ownership of properties they have  
effectively paid off.
--
Philip Machanick
philip@pescadero.stanford.edu
Newsgroups: soc.culture.african
From: Black_Swan@MTS.RPI.EDU
Subject: E-mail Network at Chula
Date: Thu, 30 Jul 92 21:52:48 EDT
X-Received: by usenet.pa.dec.com; id AA12273; Thu, 30 Jul 92 18:52:55 -0700
X-Received: by inet-gw-1.pa.dec.com; id AA10764; Thu, 30 Jul 92 18:52:52 -0700
X-To: soc.culture.thai.usenet

ssg9328@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (Samart Srijumnong) writes:
 
|S>  According to a former computer science at Chula, the reason why the Thai
|S>  e-mail system connects to the world via Australia because the Australian
|S>  government had financially supported the program. Now the assistance term
 
I see.  That is a good and valid reason for the Australian link.
 
|S>  ended. Concerning Singapore, this informant told me that the Singaporian
|S>  government has not had consistent policy about it. The Thai computer
 
What is ``it''?  You mean Singapore has no intention of providing such
service in the long run or they have no plans at the moment to do so?
 
|S>  scientists are afraid that such uncertainty might creat some problems in 
|S>  the future. Once the system was set up, the uncertainty might lead to 
|S>  a technological breakdown, he said. Besides, the cost charged by the
 
And consequently, you think the service is not on a permanent basis?
 
 
|S>  Singaporian gateway might not neccessarily be less than leasing a direct
|S>  line to the US. Anyone has better information, please share. Thanks.
 
Quite true but then has anyone a number to substantiate this?  I
figure out that the telecommunication charges from Thailand to
Singapore may be lower.  I read in the other newsgroup,
soc.culture.asean, a while back that Singapore TECHNET is offering
commercial instituition and corporation internet access with a charge
of S$ 2000 ( about US 1500) per month per account (not very certain of
this figure).  One of the Malaysian university currently has a BITNET
service via Singapore.
 
 
Black Swan
Balck_Swan@mts.rpi.edu
From: ccav86@ccsun.strath.ac.uk ("T.Laochaiwat")
Newsgroups: soc.culture.thai
Subject: Re: Me Too
Keywords: me too
Date: 21 Jul 92 11:26:34 GMT
Organization: University of Strathclyde

Sawadee Krub.
Term
Organization: Arizona State University
Date: Friday, 31 Jul 1992 10:17:33 MST
From: <ASPRA@ASUACAD.BITNET>
Newsgroups: soc.culture.thai
Subject:    Thai Jet Crashed

Copyright 1992 Extel Financial Limited, AFX News
July 31, 1992, Friday - 12:27 Eastern Time
KATHMANDU, Nepal

     A Thai Airlines International Airbus with 113 people aboard,
including foreign tourists, crashed in bad weather south of
Kathmandu on its way to Nepal from Bangkok, rescue officials said.
A land search team from the Royal Nepalese Army sighted part of the
Airbus A310/300 lying in a valley south of Kathmandu, an army
source said. But the search party could not reach the aircraft,
some 50 kilometres south of the Nepalese capital, because of heavy
rains and lack of roads.
---------------------------------------------------

Copyright 1992 Extel Financial Limited, AFX News
July  31, 1992, Friday - 07:55 Eastern Time

HEADLINE: THAI AIRBUS A310/300 FEARED TO HAVE CRASHED NEAR
KATHMANDU

     A Thai Airlines Airbus A310/300 with up to 210 passengers on
board, bound here from Bangkok, is feared to have crashed somewhere
outside Kathmandu valley, airport officials said.
    They said the flight may have crashed about 90 kilometers south
of the Nepalese capital.