HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: gthome@dss1.austin.ibm.com (Gerry Thome         (8-2256))
Subject: Re: concerns with well water and a septic tank
Date: Wed, 6 Jan 1993 16:58:42 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: IBM, Austin

In article <4101@ecicrl.ocunix.on.ca> clewis@ferret.ocunix.on.ca (Chris Lewis) writes:
>In article <1993Jan4.151106.26908@hubcap.clemson.edu> hubcap@hubcap.clemson.edu (System Janitor) writes:
>>>No pollution from nukes?  You ever hear of a place called "Chernobyl"?
>
>>The nuke plants in the US are somewhat different from Chernobyl.
>>None of ours have blown up.
>
>But they have leaked.
>
>>You'd be sure to hear about it in the paper.
>
>I heard about Three Mile Island.  Even Canada's CANDU power reactors,
>which experts say are slightly safer w.r.t. catastrophic failure compared
>to the American reactors leak upon occasion.

I too was skeptical about Nuclear Power because of Three Mile Island.  In the
summer of 1988 I worked at Point Beach Nuclear Power Plant near Two Rivers,
WI.  I was a programmer there for the Training department.  The training
department of course trains all employees that work at the plant.  All
the teachers were Nuclear Engineers and most of them were officers on 
Nuclear subs for the Navy.

I was told that prior to Three Mile Island that almost NO regulations were
put on Nuclear power plants by the US government, (i.e. there was little 
or no training of plant employees) but since Three Mile Island every worker
must be trained and certified to do their jobs.

We won't discuss Chernobyl because gross ineptness caused that disaster.

I agree that there are problems with nuclear power, mainly waste.  I do
feel that the plants themselves are safe and reliable. I will also say that
in the 3 months I worked at the plant I was not subject to any radiation,
not even .001 millirem.

How did this discussion get into misc.rural anyway ?


>-- 
>Chris Lewis; clewis@ferret.ocunix.on.ca; Phone: Canada 613 832-0541
>Psroff 3.0 info: psroff-request@ferret.ocunix.on.ca
>Ferret list: ferret-request@ferret.ocunix.on.ca

Gerry Thome
I don't speak for IBM...

From: krause@hpindda.cup.hp.com (Mike Krause)
Date: Mon, 11 Jan 1993 15:33:00 GMT
Subject: Re: Hearths for woodstoves
Organization: HP Information Networks, Cupertino, CA
Newsgroups: misc.rural

Couldn't get mail back to this person:

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Date: Mon, 11 Jan 93 07:00:59 -0800
From: Mike Krause <krause@hpisrhx.cup.hp.com>
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Message-Id: <9301111500.AA13920@hpisrhx.cup.hp.com>
To: lriggins@blackbird.afit.af.mil

Subject: Stoves


The floor has 2x12 joists with 3/4" plywood on top.  I placed another
piece of 3/4" plywood followed by wonderboard, and then the marble.
I only have a back heat shield and the stove is on legs that raise it
up 5-6".  The reason I installed it as though it had no shielding was
to avoid paying for triple wall pipe which costs around $100/ft.  We
did place marble on the wall behind it, but that was more for cosmetic
purposes as well as piece of mind (wonderboard underneath the marble).
Also, since we went with 12" squares of marble, we exceeded the clearance
requirements by several inches in any direction.  This simplified the 
installation while providing a symetrical appearance.  As for things
being near flammables, we just did what the _Universal Building Code_
required which was a concrete piece(wonderboard) and tile.  we did have
the option of buying a pre-made pad which was a steel plate, wonderboard,
and tile, but that pad cost almost as much as the wall and floor pieces
that we installed and since the county said any of the six ways listed
in the code are acceptable, we chose what we did.

The only bad thing that I have to say about my stove is that it is old
enough that it does not have an ash tray for easy clean up.  I highly
recommend that any stove you get has an ash tray - less dust and time
spent cleaning up.  Also, if I had the choice again, I would probably
buy the pellet stove since power losses, while common in the mountains
that I live in, they do not last that long and since we use ceiling
fans to distribute the heat anyway.  I think pellet stoves are a better
choice for primary heat than split wood mainly because they have the
same visual effects plus one only loads the hopper once every 36 hours.
The costs are also cheaper and there is less pollution created.  If 
one is concerned about longer power outages, then one should either have
a backup generator or one could get a combination stove that burns either
material.  BTW, I like the VC pellet stove - nice heat generation and
visually well put together (and there isn't any special piping and such 
required and they can heat 2000 sq ft. house without any problems).

Good luck
Organization: Computing Technology Services, Michigan Technological Univ.
Date: Thursday, 7 Jan 1993 08:41:32 EST
From: <JCLEWIN@MTUS5.BITNET>
Newsgroups: misc.rural
Subject: Re: farmall h

In article <kendall.109@sceng.ub.com>, kendall@sceng.ub.com (Greg Kendall) says
>
>In article <3237@devnull.mpd.tandem.com> marym@mpd.tandem.com (Mary Matejka)
>writes:
>
>
>>We just bought an old tractor. International Farmall H. I understand
>>there are places to get parts. And manuals. Anyone have any info?
>
>>I am in central Texas, but mail order is fine too.
>
>>Thanks.
>
>Have you tried Internationl Harvester, the manufacturer of the Farmalls?
>Back when I worked in auto repair (circa '65-'78) you could still buy any
>part for a Farmall down at th IH dealer.  I don't know about now, but I
>would be interested to hear from other NETers about their current support.
My soon to be father-in-law buys many of his parts at the local auto parts
store.  There are quite a few still in operation in this area.  Even if they
don't have them in  stock, I would think they could order them, or at least
give you a name of a supplier.

JCLEWIN@MTUS5.BITNET  Houghton Michigan, yup, it is still snowing.
Newsgroups: misc.rural
Subject: Re: Profitability of Sheep
From: A.S.Chamove@massey.ac.nz (A.S. Chamove)
Date: Mon, 4 Jan 93 23:22:09 GMT
Organization: Massey University, Palmerston North, New Zealand
X-Reader: NETNEWS/PC Version 2c

I suggest you talk to a local sheep farmer.

Your best market would be to private buyers who will be pleased to
buy lamb at a quarter of market price, AND be able to get organic
meat (or other value added meat).

Seven sheep will graze the amount of 1 cow.
Vet bills are negligible for sheep.
You also may have to innoculate agains some local sheep diseases. You
may also wish to plant a herbal lay or some willow (for dry summers)
or chicory which leads to faster growth. These areas must be
carefully managed and so fenced off.
Sheares will gladly shear for the wool as the wool is worth much more
than the 1 minute it takes a shearer to shear. You'll need a shed
with electricity source for sheering.
Grain is unnecessary but could be used to finish off for a month or so.
Lambs born in the Spring are ready for slaughter by christmas.
Sheep are alot of work. They need to be dagged before lambing, shorn
after lambing, mated in Sept, drenched against worms or moved to
different paddocks carefully.  Read about rearing lambs on "clean"
(no sheep for 6 months) pasture.

You only make a few dollars on each sheep unless you find people who
will pay more than the (here US$10) cost of lambs at market.  Thats
why I suggest selling to friends. A sheep takes up very little room
in a freezer and can be very lean (cholesterol is comperable to that
of chicken).

-- 
-----------------------------------------------------------------
Arnold Chamove
Massey University Psychology
Palmerston North, New Zealand
Date: Tuesday, 5 Jan 1993 13:10:02 EST
From: Jeff Brooks <JEFF@wvnvm.wvnet.edu>
Newsgroups: misc.rural
Subject: Looking for White Ash

I'm restocking a farm woodlot gone to seed, and I'm looking for a
nursery source for white ash (preferably 2-4 foot unbranched, with
good purple fall color, as it'll lie nearest the house).  I don't
need seedless ash cultivars, since I'd just as soon feed the birds,
and seedling control shouldn't be a problem for us.

Any suggestions?

   Jeffrey A. Brooks                  (304) 293-5192
   IBM Systems Group                  jeff@wvnvm.wvnet.edu
   West Virginia Network for Educational Telecomputing
   Morgantown, West Virginia  26505

Newsgroups: misc.rural
From: aad@siemens.com (Anthony Datri)
Subject: Re: concerns with well water and a septic tank
Organization: Siemens Corporate Research, Princeton (Plainsboro), NJ
Distribution: usa
Date: Wed, 6 Jan 1993 22:34:51 GMT

>Agreed.  But when someone asserts that nukes don't pollute *at all*,
>they're wrong.  The mining produces toxic slag, they leak in operation,
>and putting away the waste is a problem.  Better than fossil fuels,
>particularly coal, but not perfect by any means.

Of course, opposition to breeders doesn't help.
-- 

======================================================================8--<
Newsgroups: misc.rural
From: amirza@bronze.ucs.indiana.edu (Anmar Caves)
Subject: Re: felling `fallen' tree
Organization: Indiana University
Distribution: usa
Date: Tue, 12 Jan 1993 12:41:10 GMT

In article <C0pGBr.3Dz@HQ.Ileaf.COM> eisen@HQ.Ileaf.COM (Carl West) writes:
>
>Last month we had a heavy, wet snowfall and fairly strong winds which wrought havoc with the trees in our area (Southern New England). In the woods out back of my house there are a couple of trees that broke at the base of the trunk and are leaning at about 45 degrees on neighboring trees. These are 60-70 foot oaks and I'd like to harvest the wood but I'm a little stuck for how to do so safely.
>
>I was thinking of using the chainsaw to notch the underside, then work from the top with an ax (axes don't kick-back if the wood pinches them) and tying a stout rope or chain to the `moveable' part to keep it from coming after me when it comes loose.
>
>I think this will work OK for some of the tree, but what about the part that's snagged on it's neighbors? Pull it down with a winch?

Ack!  You have a really really dangerous situation here.  There's a
reason they call those "widow makers".  The method you described
should work ok, that's pretty much the method I use, but be damn
careful!  Once you have the tree free and clear of the base pull with
the winch at an angle to the line of the trunk, it comes free a lot
easier.  It would be a good idea to have someone with a whistle to
spot for you, and if they see a dangerous situation they can alert
you.  They can also be there for you if you screw up and get hurt.


-- 
Anmar Mirza   # Chief of Tranquility  #My Opinions! NotIU's!#Purveyor of
EMT-D         # Base, Lawrence Co. IN # Legalize Explosives!#nontraditional
N9ISY (tech)  # Somewhere out on the  # Politicians prefer  #family values
Networks Tech.# Mirza Ranch.C'mon over# unarmed peasants.   #Space For Rent
From: susan@uvmark.uucp (Susan Todhunter - (JWT))
Newsgroups: misc.rural
Subject: Re: concerns with well water and a septic tank
Date: 5 Jan 93 01:30:27 GMT
Article-I.D.: uvmark.1993Jan05.013027.26894
Distribution: usa
Organization: VMARK Software, Inc.

In article <1993Jan4.151106.26908@hubcap.clemson.edu> hubcap@hubcap.clemson.edu (System Janitor) writes:
>
>I have a problem worrying about the potential problems we might face
>with nukes when every day tons of pollution from burning fossil fuels gets
>spewed into the air. Sloppily run nukes *might* cause a problem at some
>time in the future. Every day the burning of fossile fuels *does cause*
>great problems.
>

The major pollution problem with nuclear power plants in the U.S. has to do 
with their decommissioning.  After approximately 30 years of use (and expo-
sure to high-level radiation) nuclear plants wear out.  Storage of the 
spent fuel then becomes a BIG problem, for we have not yet found a secure
place to keep this waste--secure in the sense of keeping the radioactivity
from entering and polluting our environment.  

The problem of storing radioactive waste for thousands of years is no longer
a potential one; our earliest nuclear power plants are now 30+ years old.
Yankee Rowe, in Massachusetts, is currently being decommissioned.  Many 
people in that area are concerned about where the waste is going, and how it 
will get there.










-- 

  Susan Todhunter
 
  Internet: uvmark!susan@merk.com, UUCP: uunet!merk!uvmark!susan
Organization: Computing Technology Services, Michigan Technological Univ.
Date: Monday, 4 Jan 1993 11:03:48 EST
From: <JCLEWIN@MTUS5.BITNET>
Newsgroups: misc.rural
Subject: Truck or trailer?  Was Re:dragging logs

Organization: Computing Technology Services, Michigan Technological Univ.
Date: Wednesday, 30 Dec 1992 15:14:03 EST
From: <JCLEWIN@MTUS5.BITNET>
Newsgroups: misc.rural
Subject: Truck or trailer? Was Re:dragging logs
 <1992Dec29.125500.21858@mlfarm.com>

In article <1992Dec29.125500.21858@mlfarm.com>, ron@mlfarm.com (Ronald Florence
says:
>   How many of what size logs can I expect to be able to haul with a
>   F150 in the truck bed?  How many in a heavy duty trailer could the
>   straight-6 F150 pull in a trailer instead of in the bed?
>
>Small pickups can carry and haul far more than their rated loads.  The
>question is how long you expect the transmission and tires to last and
>how slowly you're willing to drive.  I'd think trailering, with a
>cooler on the transmission, would be a lot better for the pickup than
>trying to haul logs in the bed.
>--
After loading up my small truck (A mazda) with more wood than I probably
should have, I would like the opinion on how other people haul wood.
So....
1) What size truck do you use?
2) How much wood do you put in it (i.e., how full or portions of a full cord -
of what kind of wood)?
3) How far do you haul, and over what sort of roads?
4) Do you load the wood in a trailer?  If so what size, how full, etc?
5) Do you use some other vehical (tractor, etc.)?   If so, details?

I can talley email replies and post.

JCLEWIN@MTUS5.BITNET

The Michigan Copper Country, plenty of snow for skiing, now if I can just get
out of the lab.....
From: pkrause@triton.unm.edu (Paul Krause CIRT)
Newsgroups: misc.rural
Subject: Sheep rations
Date: 11 Jan 1993 16:36:00 GMT
Organization: University of New Mexico, Albuquerque
Distribution: world
NNTP-Posting-Host: triton.unm.edu

Paul


Newsgroups: misc.rural
From: jimc@oakhill.sps.mot.com (Jim Cox)
Subject: Re: concerns with well water and a septic tank
Organization: Motorola Inc., Austin Tx.
Distribution: usa
Date: Wed, 6 Jan 1993 16:41:06 GMT

In article <1993Jan05.234549.790@news.mentorg.com> philip@mentorg.com (Philip Peake) writes:
 
>Every gas appliance with a pilot light that I have EVER seen has
                                             ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>a valve, which is held open by a bi-metal strip, which is heated
>by the pilot light - when the pilot light goes out, the bi-metal
>strip (quickly) bends, and the valve snaps shut, cutting off the gas.
>That is why you have to press the little button, and keep it pressed
>for a few seconds when you (re)light the pilot lights.
>Pressing the button opens the valve, and you wait for the bi-metal
>strip to warm up and hold the valve open.
>
>Philip

Then you have not seen my stove, which was installed new about 9 years
ago by the builder.  My Magic Chef? brand has no such push button.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 
Jim Cox                            Internet: jimc@bartman.sps.mot.com
Phone: (512) 891-3182          UUCP Address: cs.utexas.edu!oakhill!otis!jimc
---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 
Newsgroups: misc.rural
From: aad@siemens.com (Anthony Datri)
Subject: Re: concerns with well water and a septic tank
Organization: Siemens Corporate Research, Princeton (Plainsboro), NJ
Distribution: usa
Date: Wed, 6 Jan 1993 22:38:43 GMT


>Every gas appliance with a pilot light that I have EVER seen has
>a valve

At least one of the local apartment complex here has stoves that I'll bet
don't have such a valve -- the apartments *reeked* of tainted methane, and
the explanation was "the pilot probably went off when they were cleaning".

>That is why you have to press the little button, and keep it pressed
>for a few seconds when you (re)light the pilot lights.

I've seen several without any kind of button.  I have to admit that I was
shocked to learn that these things would even still be made with pilots, since
making a spark isn't all that difficult when one has electricity.
-- 

======================================================================8--<
Newsgroups: misc.rural
From: enenkel@cs.toronto.edu (Robert Frederick Enenkel)
Subject: wood-fired boilers
Organization: Department of Computer Science, University of Toronto
Distribution: na
Date: 4 Jan 93 16:29:44 GMT

Some people have been asking for manufacturers of wod-fired hot-water
boilers for house heating.  Here are two I know of:

Sierra-Riteway Mfg. Co.
1680 Country Club Road
Harrisonburg, VA 22801
USA

They make wod/coal-fired band wood/coal/oil or wood/coal/gas fired
boilers.

Kerr Controls Ltd.
P.O. Box 1500
Truro, Nova Scotia
Canada
B2N 5V2

They make wood-fired boilers and wood-fired warm-air furnaces.

There's also a company called Tarm which makes wood/coal/oil or gas fired
boilers, but I haven't been able to find their address.  I believe they
are in Scandanavia, but have North American distributors.

Robert Enenkel
(Happiness is a warm cast-iron radiator)
Organization: Computing Technology Services, Michigan Technological Univ.
Date: Thursday, 7 Jan 1993 17:04:46 EST
From: <JCLEWIN@MTUS5.BITNET>
Newsgroups: misc.rural
Subject: Re: Hearths for woodstoves
Distribution: usa

In article <1993Jan7.203624.21488@murdoch.acc.Virginia.EDU>,
jwg2y@poe.acc.Virginia.EDU (Warner Granade) says:
>
>Many years ago when I got my woodstove and then went to get my
>renter's insurance, I found that the insurance company
>has specifications including the hearth.  At that time,
>my State Farm agent had a brochure about setting up
>woodstoves with clearances, etc. Your agent might be
>a good source, provided you want to let him/her know
                -------------------------------------
>you have a stove.
------------------
YES, YES YES!
My mom works for State Farm, and has told me in the past they are not very
thrilled about wood stoves.  My guess is that an improperly installed
stove may automatically void a claim, should a fire break out.  I have
friends      renting out their first house.  They had to REMOVE the
stove in order to maintain the insurance on the house in a rental
situation.   It is ALWAYS a good idea to check with your agent, the
consequences of not checking can be _QUITE_ expensive.

JCLEWIN@MTUS5.BITNET  Calumet, MI... Still snowing......
Newsgroups: misc.rural
From: jefftb@sr.hp.com (Jeff Brown)
Subject: Re: Keep grease out of septic tank?
Date: Tue, 12 Jan 1993 16:20:24 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: HP Sonoma County (SRSD/MWTD/MID)
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1.9 PL6]


  I don't know about the septic system but kitchen grease probably
  won't make that far. you are going to have drain problems as this 
  stuff as will clog your drains. If it were me I wouldn't do it. 
  Also, I'm told that you should keep meat stuff out of your composting
  pile.

  Good luck
  Jeff Brown
Newsgroups: misc.rural
From: roberson@eos.ncsu.edu (JAMES D ROBERSON)
Subject: Re: advice sought on bathroom cleaners
Originator: roberson@water1.bae.ncsu.edu
Reply-To: roberson@eos.ncsu.edu (JAMES D ROBERSON)
Organization: North Carolina State University, Project Eos
Distribution: usa
Date: Fri, 8 Jan 1993 14:15:02 GMT


We installed a system a few years ago at my parents' house specifically
for iron in the water (couldn't wash any light colored clothes at times).
If memory serves, it is basically a tall tank (maybe 30 gal) with
filtering that requires periodic backwashing for cleaning.  Price was
$600-$800 range.

jim
From: pa0q+@andrew.cmu.edu (Phil Andrews)
Newsgroups: misc.rural
Subject: Re: Profitability of Sheep
Date: 6 Jan 93 07:11:25 GMT
Article-I.D.: andrew.QfGl_xg00000R0AEYG
Organization: Pittsburgh Supercomputing Center, Carnegie Mellon, Pittsburgh, PA

>From: broy@vaxa.weeg.uiowa.edu (Barbara Roy)
>Subject: Profitability of Sheep
>Date: Mon, 4 Jan 1993 15:16:15 GMT

>I'm toying with the idea of raising sheep as an income source 
I would say forget keeping them as anything except pet/hobby animals or
for personal consumption. Prices paid for market lambs have been at a
ten-year low. Prices at the supermarket are at their highest ever. I
believe There's a senate committee looking into allegations of collusion
by the buyers. In our county there's only one buyer and last year the
price was just over 40 cents/pound.

We have a small flock of 40 ewes, we tried to sell them off but got no
interest whatsoever. Pure bred ewes and rams are are going to market for
meat around here.

As always, other areas of the country may be different, but I wouldn't
bet on it.

-Phil Andrews
From: Andrew.Cohill@vtssi.vt.edu (Andrew Michael Cohill)
Newsgroups: misc.rural
Subject: Re: Hearths for woodstoves
Date: 6 Jan 93 14:37:54 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: Fire in the Mountain
X-UserAgent: Nuntius v1.1.1d13
X-XXMessage-ID: <A77059F60B01047C@thea.cc.vt.edu>
X-XXDate: Wed, 6 Jan 93 09:42:14 GMT

Theoretically, your building inspector should have the final word on 
this.  If you don't heed his advice, you might find yourself making some 
expensive repairs when you try to sell the house, if you live in an area 
where inspections by an engineer are required to sell a house.

The hearth is intended to be a firestop for ashes and cinders that may 
fall out of the stove, so an absolute minimum depth would be about 6" 
more than the distance from the front of the stove to the wall.  12" 
would be better.  In some places the code might well require as much as 
18", but that's overkill, in my opinion.

How thick should it be?  It depends upon what material is used as the 
firestop.  Requirements will differ is you use sheet metal as opposed to 
masonry, for example.  For a stove, the hearth also protects the area 
*under* the stove from getting too hot.  This is really very important;  
wood, if dried out too much over a long period of time, can become more 
readily combustible, to the point of being dangerous, so the hearth under 
and behind the stove must protect the wood framing from overheating. 

You are getting conflicting opinions because there are many ways to 
design this properly, as well as many ways to design it improperly.  One 
thing I always recommend is putting foil-faced drywall on the wall behind 
the hearth.  It reflects a great deal of heat back into the room that 
would normally be conducted to the outer wall and lost, as well as 
insulating the framing better.

Hope that helps a bit.  An architect would be the best source of 
information on this subject, and if you explain what you are doing, all 
you would need is a hand-drawn sketch.  This might cost as little as 
$50-$75.

Andrew
Newsgroups: misc.rural