From: colten@cbnewsb.cb.att.com (marc.colten)
Subject: Re: 2nd Ammendment
Summary: Right into the attacks
Organization: AT&T
Date: Fri, 6 Nov 1992 03:36:44 GMT

In article <GERRY.92Nov5155324@onion.cmu.edu>, gerry@cmu.edu (Gerry Roston) writes:
> 
> Marc, 
> You are obviously biased against guns.  You should, however, learn to
> engage your brain before typing...
> 

Guns are inanimate objects, I have no bias against them.  Just as
I have no bias against cars - which also shouldn't be in the hands
of the drunk, the blind, the underage.  As for "engaging brain before
typing" if your gonna attack, get a new line.  jeez.

> In article <1992Nov5.133648.1557@cbfsb.cb.att.com> colten@cbnewsb.cb.att.com (marc.colten) writes:
> 
>    I just want you to clarify your position.  You've stated that
>    the RKBA applies to individuals, and is not modifiable by the
>    states.  Is that right?  I'd like to hear your opinion on the
>    following scenarios, just to see if I understand you:
> 
>    1)  A 12 year old boy takes his father's pistol to school with him.
>        Can school officials take it away?
> 
> Within our society, children have limited rights.  They can not vote.
> They are not allowed to purchase alcohol or drive cars.  BY the same
> token, it is illegal in all states for a person under 18 years of age
> to purchase a handgun.  Children of a certain age (I forget what it
> is, 16 I think) are allowed to buy rifles and shotguns though, as
> these are ostensibly for sporting purposes.
> 
So the RKBA is above all laws, except for minors.  Just what I said,
it's modifiable under the law.

>    2)  A violent criminal is released on bail.  His first stop is
>        a gun store - can he be forbidden to buy the gun?
> 
> A convicted felons' right are not the same as a "ordinary" citizen.
> They are prohibited from owning firearms, and I, believe from voting.
> 
So the RBA is above all laws, except you lose that right when you
are convicted of a crime.  I can also promise you that there are
people who will chime in with the opinion that NOTHING loses you
the right to a gun.  So this right is also subject to various
opinions.

>    3)  I rent an apartment overlooking a schoolyard.  Early one morning
>        I screw down the tripod of an automatic weapon to the window sill,
>        attach the gun so it points down towards the schoolyard,
>        and sit there by the gun, smiling, waiting for recess.  Can
>        anyone make me not do this?
> 
> The worst you could be gotten for is disturbing the peace.  You are
> not committing a crime, nor are you necessarily even planning one.
> P.S., getting a license for a fully automatic weapon is not cheap.
> 
Hey I got the money for the gun and the license, I mean I don't ahve
a life anymore do I?  As I told the newspapers in those 19 page letters
I'm always sending them - my wife left me, my dog died, I was fired
and it was all because of *them* and only a great sacrifice to the
god "RKBA" can appease him.  Okay, off the wall argument - but do
you really think that if it was YOUR kid in that schoolyard you'd
be sitting there telling me I'm not committing a crime or planning
one?  It's always someone elses problem, isn't it.

There's another thread, I think on talk.politics.guns, about a Japanese
kid in the US who went to the wrong house and was shot dead by the
owner.  I've seen two opinions about this matter:

1) The risk that one innocent person might be killed by criminals
   because he didn't have a gun is too great a risk to take, and there
   must be no regulations on the purchase or a gun.

2) No matter how many innocent people get shot in dumb accidents it
   is not too high a price to pay for that freedom.

>    4)  You like to ride on public transportation, holding your Magnum
>        in your hand.  Is this against any law?  Occasionally you playfully
>        point it at an old lady and "Pow!  Pow!".  Is this legal?
> 
> In PA, even with a carry permit, you must carry concealed, otherwise
> they get you for disturbing the peace.  To specifically point a gun at
> a person (unlike #3) can be construed as attempted assualt.
> 
But aiming it into  a schoolyard is not?  so I take it you have no
kids in schools, but you do ride buses.  All this points to the same
thing i've been saying. The RKBA is not carved in stone with the 
10 commandments.  It is a man made law - modifiable by other laws.


marc colten

Newsgroups: sci.skeptic