HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: snichols@adobe.com (Sherri Nichols)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
Subject: Re: Playoff Tickets
Keywords: $$
Date: 30 Sep 92 20:15:30 GMT
Article-I.D.: adobe.1992Sep30.201530.16726
Organization: Adobe Systems Incorporated

In article <9967@ncrwat.Waterloo.NCR.COM> aclark@53iss5.Waterloo.NCR.COM (Allen Clark) writes:
>2) I shelled out $24.00 (CDN) for a ticket that is $4.00 in the
>regular season. (I know the league sets the prices but WOW, I wonder
>what the $17.50 or $22.00 tix go for?)

The ticket prices for the LCS range from $20 to $40 (US), while for the
World Series they range from $25 to $60 (US).

>3) If the Jays do not make the playoffs I do not get a full refund (I
>lose an admin. fee)

That's unfortunate, but not that unusual.  For sales to the general public
(i.e. not season ticket holders) many teams use a ticket agency these days.
We bought LCS and World Series tickets for the A's through BASS yesterday,
when the remaining tickets went on public sale, and paid a $5/order service
charge (we have more than one order because we wanted to buy more than the
6 ticket/order limit).  That service charge is not refundable. 

>4) They did not accept any credit cards or personal cheques.  This
>forced me to spend even more money on a money order.

That's pretty unusual.

>5) Here is the kicker, the one that is unbelievable...I had to include
>a stamped addressed envelope!  They would not even send me the tix
>($0.42 for a stamp).  

We had to either pay $6.00 for Federal Express delivery, or pick the
tickets up in person (the person who actually placed the order has to pick
the tickets up, because they require a photo id).

Sherri Nichols
snichols@adobe.com
From: gritter@cs.purdue.EDU (Carl R. Gritter)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
Subject: Winning a short series (was Re: TORONTO BLUE JAYS CLINCHED THE AL EAST!!!!!)
Date: 6 Oct 92 20:05:36 GMT
Organization: Department of Computer Science, Purdue University

In article  <17932@ucdavis.ucdavis.edu> zuhars@madrone.eecs.ucdavis.edu (Gary Frog Baseball Huckabay) writes:
>ANYTHING can happen.  It's a short series.  Don't EVER woof in a short
>series.  Billy Bates and Billy Hatcher might jump up and bite you.

ANY team that makes it to the post season in MLB has a chance to win.
In the long run, the teams with most talent will win more often than
teams with less talent, but there are plenty of examples where the
team with the least talent (on paper) won.  The last glaring example
of this is the LA Dodgers in 1988.  They just got hot at the right
time.  One extremely hot pitcher (Herchiser) and a few hot batters can
get you thru.  Every MLB team has streaks where they win 3 or 4 in a
row so for a division winner with less talent to beat a division
winner with more talent in a 7 game series is not a stretch at all.

Thats why all this stuff about a team choking in the playoffs and the
like, is really a bunch of hogwash.  All it takes is one bad week,
which even the best teams in baseball have on occasion.  The problem
is that everyone remembers this bad week for years on end.

>>Congratulations to the Jays in winning the AL EAST.

Yes, a great accomplishment.  Winning a division by playing better
than 5 or 6 other teams for 162 games is a great accomplishment.  It
doesn't happen to everyone (just ask the fans of the Expos, Indians,
Rangers, Mariners, etc.) and it should be appreciated a little more.
The fans in Toronto have seen 4 division winners in 8 years but won't
be happy if Toronto doesn't make it to the World Series.  Toronto may
have the edge in talent but their chances of winning a 7 game series
is probably at most 55-60%.  Why not laud the real accomplishment (a
division title) rather than frown if they fail as a 3-2 favorite (let
alone fire the manager -- don't get me wrong, I'd like to see Cito
replaced, but not making it to the series isn't the reason -- he's
simply not a good tactical manager).  Also, anybody who thinks that
Toronto is more or less likely to win this year because they failed
the last three times, needs to take a course in probability.

Carl
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
From: lsmith@deci.cs.umn.edu (Lance "Squiddie" Smith)
Subject: Re: Now on with the show...
Organization: The Little Squids of the Poor
Distribution: na
Date: Wed, 30 Sep 1992 02:50:24 GMT

In article <1ab0ktINNekv@uwm.edu> paul@csd4.csd.uwm.edu (Paul R Krueger) writes:
>In article <6418@blue.cis.pitt.edu.UUCP> psg+@pitt.edu (Paul S Galvanek) writes:
>>
>>Now that the '92 season is winding down, who was the keeper of the sacred
>>predictions?
>>
>>I do hope that someone who promised to rub it all in our faces this October
>>kept everything 8^)
>>
>   I know that somebody said that if the Brewhas played .667 baseball from
>   a certain point on, that he'd streak down Central Park (or maybe somewhere
>   else). I wonder if winning 10 of 11 has put Milwaukee close to a .667 pace
>   yet?

You're mixing two different bets here. The streaking involved HoJo performing
at a certain level for the season. He didn't. At the moment the net
commissioner is deciding whether the people of Pittsburgh should be spared
the site of one of r.s.b's regulars streaking down Forbes Ave. (Or was it
5th?) since HoJo didn't play a full season.

The Brewhas bet is actually based on a response to a Kruegerpost (so you
should have gotten it right, oh saline one.) On July 28, Gary "Seattle
Wins the Pennant! Seattle Wins the Pennant!" Huckabay stated:

  "And if they play .667 ball from here on out, I'll french kiss Dave
   Kirsch.  (Think anyone will save this text?   :-)" 

Since the stated Organization of said poster was "Lance Smith Tastee Freezes,
Inc."  I felt it necessary to preserve this post.

It is left as an exercise for the reader to decide whether Gary will be
making a trip to Minnesota in the near future.
--
     Lance "William Blake?" Smith     |   "Bring me my bat of burning gold!
         (lsmith@cs.umn.edu)          |    Bring me my pine tar of desire!
 "The Cat. He walked by himself, and  |    Bring me my glove! O clouds unfold!
    all places were alike to him."    |    Bring me my fastball of fire!"
From: spira@panix.com (Greg "Sarcasm Is A Way Of Life" Spira)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
Subject: Re: Defensive Positional Value (was AL ROY, long ago)
Date: 30 Sep 92 18:30:58 GMT
Organization: Boo!

In <6525@blue.cis.pitt.edu.UUCP> genetic+@pitt.edu (Dr. Dave) writes:

(I've eliminated most of the discussion because of various reasons)

>As always, I'm claiming that a player's value is what he gives you that other
>teams aren't getting from their guy(s) at that position.  In that analysis, 
>the intrinsic value of "being a shortstop" cancels out, because everyone has
>it.  If competent fielding shortstops were so rare that not every team could
>lay hands on one, things would be different.  But every team can; it's just
>that some of them aren't major-league hitters.  (And don't tell me about the
>Dodgers; they could have signed Alvaro Espinoza any time...)

This is getting much too complicated, I think.  My question: Can the worst
a replacement level shortstop earn playing time with less offense than
the best defensive first baseman produces while that first baseman does
not earn playing time because he isn't good enough offensively.  If that
situation is possible, than I think the ability to play shortstop must
have some intrinsic value.

Greg 
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
From: thf2@ellis.uchicago.edu (Citecheck Hell)
Subject: Re: Jack is a winner
Reply-To: thf2@midway.uchicago.edu
Organization: University of Chicago Computing Organizations
Date: Wed, 30 Sep 1992 02:23:08 GMT

In article <1aauhuINNe8m@uwm.edu> paul@csd4.csd.uwm.edu (Paul R Krueger) writes:
>>Hm.  Like Friday?  When the Jays had a chance to finally put away the
>>division?  So Morris "pitched to the score", giving up his usual four
>>runs.  His teammates scored only one.  Doesn't sound like a winner to
>>me.  At least not by your definition.
>   
>   That game really didn't mean squat. The Jays weren't really in trouble
>   yet. However, on Sunday the Jays were in trouble 'cause the Brewhas had
>   closed to within two. Morris pitched six shutout innings. Sounds like a
>   winner to me.

Hmm.  If Jack was really a "winner" rather than an slightly above-average
pitcher whose greatest asset is his ability to rack up innings (not something
to be undervalued, mind you), he'd have given up four runs against the
Yanks in the blow-out game and shutout his previous opponent.  That's
two wins instead of one.

>   Also, he pitched that game on three days rest so Gaston could finalize
>   his playoff rotation. Guess who's pitching in game one? That's right,
>   it's the winner!!

Eldred?

It's a bit soon for the Blue Jays to be tasting bubbly.  They probably
will (they get to play Boston in Toronto), but then again, the Brewers
are only two back in the loss column, and could easily win their last
six if the Jays don't win four out of five.  (God forbid the Trib could
print a pennant race schedule--I know Milwaukee plays Seattle Tuesday
and Wednesday, but I don't know anything about their last four games.)
-- 
           .. . . .  .  .   .    .     .     .    .   .  .  . . . ..
          ted frank | thf2@midway.uchicago.edu | standard disclaimers
         the university of chicago law school, chicago, illinois 60637
From: mikef@bvc.edu
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
Subject: GRIFFIN BETTER THAN FIRST THOUGHT
Date: 30 Sep 92 11:13:31 CDT
Organization: Buena Vista College, Storm Lake, IA

I CANNOT ACCEPT THAT ALFREDO GRIFFIN IS THE WORST SS IN THE BIGS.  AS A 
DODGER FAN, I PROMISE YOU THAT WE WOULD TAKE HIM BACK OVER OFFERUPANERROR 
ANY DAY.  IT SEEMS THAT THE DODGERS WON A WORLD SERIES WITH GRIFFIN UP THE 
MIDDLE AND I ADMIRED HIS TENACITY PLAYING WITH A BROKEN CHEEK BONE LAST 
YEAR.  THE MAN IS A WINNER, EVEN IF NOT BLESSED WITH GREAT TALENT.
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
From: dfl@math.wayne.edu (David Frohardt-Lane)
Subject: Re: Cy Young?
Organization: Wayne State University Math Department, Detroit
Date: Thu, 1 Oct 1992 01:25:42 GMT

In article <1992Sep30.152408.13146@cs.rose-hulman.edu> rileyrm@nextwork.rose-hulman.edu writes:
>
>In article <25670@oasys.dt.navy.mil> kiviat@oasys.dt.navy.mil (Brian  
>Kiviat) writes:
>> Just as the title line says.....Who should win the Cy Young?

>Are you concerned with the National League or the American league?
>The national league has to be Tom Glavine without a doubt.  No other  
>pitcher has excelled the way he has in the national league.

The best pitcher in the National League has been Greg Maddux, by far.
He has pitched 43 more innings then Glavine, and given up 3 fewer earned
runs (12 fewer unearned runs).  

I realize that Glavine will almost certainly get the award, but no way
does he deserve it.  I would vote for Smoltz over Glavine at this point.
(Smoltz has pitched 36 1/3 more innings than Glavine, and given up 10
more runs).  I would also give it to Tewksbury ahead of Glavine.

>The american league would probably have to be Roger Clemens again.  Same  
>story.

I agree with you here.  Did anyone see Baseball Weekly's article making
their choices for the award winnners?  They had Jack McDowell as the AL
Cy Young winner!!  The article noted that his ERA was a bit high, but
that he was a good compromise choice (I don't understand this).  They
were also crazy in picking Eckersley for MVP.


--
David Frohardt-Lane   dfl@math.wayne.edu 
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Go Tigers, Lions, Pistons, Red Wings and Wolverines !!!!!!!!!!
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
From: tedward@cs.cornell.edu (Edward [Ted] Fischer)
Subject: Re: Inaction Jackson
Organization: Cornell Univ. CS Dept, Ithaca NY 14853
Date: Sun, 27 Sep 1992 13:51:05 GMT

In article <ePPqRB1w164w@campbell.Gwinnett.COM> bc@campbell.Gwinnett.COM (Bob Campbell) writes:
>
>  In a discussion about Reggie Jackson's post-season performances (vs.
>  Barry Bonds') while with the Oakland A's, Edward Fischer writes...
>
>  > Let's see...  He wimped out of his first world series, claiming an
>  > injury.  Then in 1973, he went 3-21 with 0 R and 0 RBI in the ALCS.
>  > In 1974 he was 2-12 with 0 R and 0 RBI in the ALCS.
>
>    After all the careful research to make your point - which is a
>    good point, indeed - do you really think that a baseball player
>    is going to "wimp out" and claim an injury?  To do WHAT?  Avoid
>    playing in the World Series?

Okay, so I was *really* stretching that one.  :-) I obviously don't
believe that Jackson "choked", was a wimp, or anything else.  I merely
wanted to make the point that it's unfair to judge a player on 18 AB.

>    He broke a leg sliding into home in the playoffs.

You sure?  I thought it was a pulled hamstring.  I've seen *lots* of
players labeled wimps for not playing through injuries like that.
Which is of course ridiculous, but so are many things people say.

Cheers,
-Valentine
-- 
Make outs, not walks!					tedward@cs.cornell.edu
Clemens four Cy Young!
From: tedward@cs.cornell.edu (Edward [Ted] Fischer)
Subject: Re: Jack is a winner
Organization: Cornell Univ. CS Dept, Ithaca NY 14853
Date: Sun, 27 Sep 1992 02:12:42 GMT

In article <1992Sep26.222036.16948@r-node.gts.org> shadow@r-node.gts.org (Jay Chu) writes:
>
>Well salty, I'm with you.  This is exactly why Jack Morris is a winner.
>Who gives a damn about ERA if you consistently lose games.  No matter
>how high the ERA is, if at the end of 9 innings, you get the W, you have
>done your job right, and YOU ARE A WINNER.

Hm.  Like Friday?  When the Jays had a chance to finally put away the
division?  So Morris "pitched to the score", giving up his usual four
runs.  His teammates scored only one.  Doesn't sound like a winner to
me.  At least not by your definition.

>This may depend on luck.  Who
>knows.  But Jack Morris is a valuable asset to the Jays.

He's lost more games than he should, given the amount of run support
he has gotten.  If he had won every game, I would have trouble
criticizing him no matter *what* his ERA was.  But he hasn't been
perfect.  He hasn't even been particularly good, considering the bats
behind him.  I figure he's been a bit better than your average #3
starter...

Cheers,
-Valentine
-- 
Make outs, not walks!					tedward@cs.cornell.edu
Clemens four Cy Young!
From: kbos@carina.unm.edu (Kurt "Some Guy" Bose)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
Subject: Re: Bonds "choke"?
Date: 30 Sep 92 08:19:43 GMT
Organization: University of New Mexico, Albuquerque

In article <1992Sep30.055359.308@odin.corp.sgi.com> kubey@sgi.com (Ken Kubey) writes:
>
>How many WS rings does Jackson have?   How many does Bonds have?
>

a) One more than Lonnie Smith.
b) The same number as Ernie Banks.

What a stupid argument.


-- 
Kurt Bose (as in Daisy, not Rose) * kbos@carina.unm.edu * Make..oh, you know.---
-"The fatal tendency of mankind to leave off thinking about a thing when it is--
--no longer doubtful is the cause of half their errors.  The cause of the other-
---half can be attributed to playing Jose Offerman at short." - John Stuart Mill
From: rickert@NeXTwork.Rose-Hulman.Edu (John H. Rickert)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
Subject: Re: AL Rookie of Year Award?
Date: 30 Sep 92 19:10:22 GMT
Article-I.D.: cs.1992Sep30.191022.16224
Organization: Rose-Hulman Institute of Technology


In article <1ack3lINNlbc@uwm.edu> paul@csd4.csd.uwm.edu (Paul R Krueger)  
writes:
>    What is Brett Butler, about a .280 hitter? You take away his speed and
>    he's a .240 hitter. Take away his 10 bunt singles and 10 infield hits
>    a year that he gets and his average goes way down. Every single Brewer

But this refers to his 'raw speed' (and bunting ability).
In another post you mention that the Brewers *aren't* the fastest team,
just the 'runningist'.

>    hitter has benefitted greatly from the success of the running game. It
>    doesn't matter who's on base (Milwaukee has 11 guys with 10 or more
>    steals), whoever is at the plate is bound to get more fastballs and less
>    attention from the pitcher because that pitcher is worried about the
>    runner.

So what you're saying is that the Brewers BA with runners on should
increase *much* more than is normal.
Last year AL batters were +.014 (ROBBA - BEBA) which raised the league BA
from .254(empty) to .260(total)  (i.e. with men on the BA was .268)
The average 'ROB'(Runner On Base) effect was +6.
Over the last 5 yrs. (1987-91) the Brewers were +18,+12,+16,+9,+14.
You claim that the Brewers BA gets an extra 15 pts. compared to other
teams, so that they should be about +21 this year.
Well, I've gotten myself in trouble with this before, so why not again?
   I'd be amazed if the Brewers really are +21
(this would require ROBBA-BEBA of about 50 pts.)
 Anyone have the data?

john rickert
rickert@nextwork.rose-hulman.edu
Go Brewers! Go Tigers!(please?)
Organization: Sophomore, Electrical and Computer Engineering, Carnegie Mellon, Pittsburgh, PA
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
Date: Mon, 28 Sep 1992 17:10:34 -0400 
From: Eric Alva Dunmire <ed19+@andrew.cmu.edu>
Subject: PIRATES AGIAIN!!!



CLINCHED 3rd STRAIGHT !!!!


ANY QUESTIONS!!!!!!!!
Organization: Ryerson Polytechnical Institute
Distribution: na
Date: Tuesday, 29 Sep 1992 14:24:39 EST
From: <ACPS7151@RyeVm.Ryerson.Ca>
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
Subject: new league

I know that the season is almost over, but this is for next year if anyone is i
nterested in a baseball pool that i want to run.  If so please mail me at the a
ddress so i can get everything working.



Ravi Narine
From: z_copeab@ccsvax.sfasu.edu
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
Subject: Re: Astros
Date: 28 Sep 92 16:21:38 CST
Organization: Stephen F. Austin State University

In article <0a_ph1=@lynx.unm.edu>, kbos@carina.unm.edu (Kurt "Some Guy" Bose) writes:
> In article <BvA143.5sM@rice.edu> tomscud@ruf.rice.edu (Thomas Reid Scudder) writes:
>>What does anyone think of their chances next season?  It looks like they may
>>even have a chance to contend, especially if Atlanta moves to the East.
>>(Of course, they may also be lucky this year... does anyone have their stats
>>in 1 run games (the surest way to gauge how lucky a team is overall)
> 
> It won't happen, and the reason is pitching.  The Astros have he worst starting
> staff in the National League, pure and simple.  

	It is also (one of) the youngest.

>  Despite the good bullpen work, a better lefty
> reliever is needed.  

	Osuna looked good last year, but has had a lot of problems this
season: which performance should the Astros expect? (my guess: somewhere
inbetween)

> The offense has holes at catcher, short, and the corner
> outfield spots.  I can more easily believe that Ken Caminiti and Craig
> Biggio can contribute to a contender than I could have at the beginning of the
> year.  With good defense, Steve Finley is adequate in center.  The power of
> Bagwell is good, but the poster boy for MLEs needs to up his average some.

	I wouldn't have stuck with Eric Anthony for so long. Luis Gonzales
came back a long way after a *horrible* start, and I don't think he's all that
old (25?). Inky will probably be gone to the Marlins or Rockies, but he
provided useful backup this year for Anthony and Gonzales.

	I don't see the Astro's catching situation gettin a whole lot better 
unless they sign a free agent catcher of any quality (doubtful). Not that
Taubensee and Servias won't ever get better, just don't expect much from them.

	Shortstop is a different situation. Yelding simply doesn't have the OBA
to be an everyday majorleaguer. Cedeno has the SLG, but his OBA is worse than
Yelding's, and he is slower on the basepaths and is pretty bad defensively. And
I don't see Ramirez as the starting ss...
 
>  With continued improvement for two
> more years, I can see the Astros contending.  I think they'll be better NEXT
> year, anyway.

	I think next year they can break the .500 barrier. Depending on how the
young pitching does, they might make a run in 2-3 years, but no sooner.

Brandon Cope
From: paul@csd4.csd.uwm.edu (Paul R Krueger)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
Subject: Re: Now on with the show...
Date: 30 Sep 1992 01:41:49 GMT
Organization: Computing Services Division, University of Wisconsin - Milwaukee
NNTP-Posting-Host: 129.89.7.4

In article <6418@blue.cis.pitt.edu.UUCP> psg+@pitt.edu (Paul S Galvanek) writes:
>
>Now that the '92 season is winding down, who was the keeper of the sacred
>predictions?
>
>I do hope that someone who promised to rub it all in our faces this October
>kept everything 8^)
>
   I know that somebody said that if the Brewhas played .667 baseball from
   a certain point on, that he'd streak down Central Park (or maybe somewhere
   else). I wonder if winning 10 of 11 has put Milwaukee close to a .667 pace
   yet?

   --salty


Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
From: peppler@ux1.cso.uiuc.edu (Randy Peppler)
Subject: Re: Unusual Display of Common Sense by Chicago Tribune
Organization: University of Illinois at Urbana-Champaign
Date: Tue, 29 Sep 1992 14:34:01 GMT

In article <1992Sep28.225016.6444@midway.uchicago.edu> thf2@midway.uchicago.edu writes:
>
>On the other hand, they quote Gene Lamont as saying that Frank Thomas as
>the White Sox player that most surprised him this season: "I didn't think
>he was such a good hitter."  So much my feeling that the Sox could do it
>next season.

	Don't give up yet, Ted.  This just confirms my feeling that
	Lamont had no inkling how to manage this team early on.  He
	finally gave up on Thigpen, after getting his rump burned too many
	times.  Now that he's realized Frank is *that* good, we're all
	set for next year!  We need to get some better starting pitching
	between now and then, however...  And, a better DH, I guess?  ;-)

	What else do you experts believe the Pale Hose need to win the
	West next year?  I know that Barry Bonds could be enough, but
	let's not get excited...

-- 
-------------------------------
| Randy Peppler               |
| Illinois State Water Survey |
| peppler@ux1.cso.uiuc.edu    |
From: aaron@juliet.caltech.edu (Packman, Aaron I.)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
Subject: Re: BAERGA best AL 2d base ever?
Date: 5 Oct 92 03:57:00 GMT
Organization: California Institute of Technology
NNTP-Posting-Host: juliet.caltech.edu
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41

In article <1992Oct4.175048.19355@midway.uchicago.edu>, thf2@midway.uchicago.edu writes...
>Sorry to follow up my own post, but thought I'd post some supporting stats.
> 
>In article <1992Oct4.172603.18687@midway.uchicago.edu> thf2@midway.uchicago.edu writes:
>>Given that he isn't even the best AL 2nd-baseman this year, this probably
>>isn't accurate.  (I'd still put Alomar and Whitaker ahead of Baerga, though
>>Carlos should be ahead of Lou next year.)
> 
>BATTERS        BA   SLG   OBP   G  AB   R   H  TB 2B 3B HR RBI  BB  SO SB CS  E
>BAERGA,C     .309  .454  .350 154 628  88 194 285 29  1 20 103  32  73 10  2 18
>WHITAKER,L   .281  .469  .391 126 437  76 123 205 25  0 19  70  80  45  5  4  9
>KNOBLAUCH,C  .301  .360  .385 148 572  99 172 206 18  5  2  54  82  59 32 12  5
>ALOMAR,R     .310  .423  .405 148 558 102 173 236 26  8  7  73  85  51 47  9  5
> 

I think your stats show Alomar to be the best AL 2b-man this year.  Seriously
now, the only advantage Baerga has is more HR.  As to the best of all time,
let me offer the following:

Batter	        BA   SLG   OBP   G  AB   R   H  TB 2B 3B HR RBI  BB SO SB CS E
Lajoie, 1901  .426  .643  .451 145 544 145 232 350 48 14 14 125  24 NA 27 NA NA

NA = not available

I might also add that Lajoie let the league in R, H, 2B, HR, RBI, BA, OBP, & SLG
that year.  

Aaron Packman
aaron@caltech.edu
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball