HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: bhanafee@deimos.ads.com (Brian Hanafee)
Newsgroups: rec.music.bluenote
Subject: Re: The Database Project (was Re: Drowning in Recommendations?)
Date: 3 Apr 92 22:48:33 GMT
Article-I.D.: deimos.BHANAFEE.92Apr3144833
	<ALANS.92Mar31174901@abraham.juliet.ll.mit.edu>
	<1992Apr2.182601.18352@cbnewsl.cb.att.com>
	<1992Apr3.102645.29977@ccu.umanitoba.ca>
Organization: Advanced Decision Systems, Mountain View, CA 94043, +1 (415)
	960-7300


In article <1992Apr3.102645.29977@ccu.umanitoba.ca> mcgonig@eeserv.ee.umanitoba.ca (Gordon McGonigal) writes:
>Is anyone else aware of the UTLAS online) database system libraries use
>for cataloguing books? [some additional description deleted]
Yes, I'm aware of it.  I worked for one of their competitors when
I was an undergrad.

>UTLAS (U of Toronto Library Acquisitions System?)
U of Toronto Library Automation System, I thought.

[Good description of how UTLAS works, including some of its drawbacks,
deleted]

There is a standard for library records on media.  It is called "MARC"
records, although there is a variation called "USMARC".  It includes a
header (including card copyright information), a directory of which
fields are available in this particular record, and the records.
Different fields are assigned different three digit numbers, such that
the title of a book is always "010", and the author is "020", etc.  (I
don't remember the actual numbers, and those are probably wrong.)
They aren't very hard to parse, and include special data for audio
recordings.

>Actually, I wonder if there are some "Audio/Visual" cataloguing systems
>or CDROMs that would have some relevant data?  The Library of Congress
>does have many albums in their on-line catalogue, although not in the
>detail required by the format undertaken by Marcel and Sandeep.

Yes, in fact the Library of Congress is an important source of these
records.  The really good news (at least for this instance) is that
there is currently legislation pending to make more US govt databases
more available to the general public (text of the act was posted to
comp.risks recently).

The problem with using existing records is that they are, for the most
part, copyrighted.  Even the records which originate in the Library of
Congress tend to get copyright notices attached by intermediary
companies sometime before they arrive in another library (such as at
your local university).

Obligatory bluenote topic:
I've been wishing I were following the "Hip Voicings" thread, but I
keep getting lost.  What are some good recommendations for intro texts
that might help me understand how to break down the chords into
notes, and maybe describe some of the basic chord progressions?



--
Brian Hanafee                         Advanced Decision Systems
bhanafee@ads.com                      1500 Plymouth Street
(415) 960-7300                        Mountain View, CA 94043-1230
Xref: sparky rec.music.bluenote:3320 rec.music.makers:5574
Newsgroups: rec.music.bluenote

In rec.music.bluenote, sherman@induce.enet.dec.com (My name is...) writes:

> >The interesting thing here is the question: "What is complex music ?"
> >To me, complex music is not heavily sequenced and digitally arranged,
> >programmed, pre-concieved, etc. I believe that jazz, especially when
> >played by players such as Tony Williams, Herbie Hancock, 
> >Jack DeJohnette, Keith Jarrett, etc; is infintately more complex than
> >any arranged midi sequence. And the irony is that it is amazingly
> >simple as well. The complexity is in the rhythms, time, melodic and
> >harmonic concepts. 
> 
> I agree, but not for the reason that followed.  The problem is that
> engineers tend to confuse complexity with lots of events.  I would wager
> that MOST of the information that any of the artists listed can generate
> can somehow, some way be converted into MIDI events such that a synth can
> be convincingly programmed to have indistinguishable feel when compared
> to a "real" musician.  The proof is trivial if you consider a CD to be a
> ROM and a CD player to be a synth.

But the level of information in MIDI versus a CD is entirely different.  That's
like wagering that MOST of the information that Monet generated in one of his
"Water Lilies" could be represented as English text, using as "proof" an ASCII
representation of a digitization of the painting.

MIDI is a relatively "high level" language.  It was specifically designed to
do a good job of capturing keyboard performance, but that is about it.
Remember the discussion recently about whether different pianist could play a
given note for a given length of time at a given volume, yet still impart some
individuality?  This will be argued philosophically for years, I am sure, but
the physical fact remains that those three parameters completely define the
sound of a note on a given piano - the action of a piano is such that you
cannot do anything more.  So yes, given a sufficiently realistic sounding
synthesizer (sample playback with algorithms for handling the harmonics of the
damper pedal), you could indeed convincingly reproduce Herbie or Keith (except
for the groans :-).

However, you'll find that MIDI is unsuited for representing most percussion
instruments, which rules out Tony or Jack.  And it is woefully inadequate at
representing wind or string instruments.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Marc Sabatella      "Blondes and jazz seldom go together" - Cmdr. William Riker
marc@hpmonk.fc.hp.com
From: gwl%wave3_1@MCNC.ORG (Glenn Lea)
Newsgroups: rec.music.bluenote
Subject: Re: ZORN
Date: 17 Apr 92 12:09:20 GMT
Reply-To: gwl%wave3_1@mcnc.org

>>>>> On Thu, 16 Apr 92 10:59:09 -0400, wave3_3!auriga.rose.brandeis.edu!rardin said:


  > I have now lost my "fear" of Zorn! :^)  ...
  >Are SPILLANE and BIG GUNDOWN available on CD?

Yes, both are on Elektra Nonesuch.  

Spillane has 3 cuts: a long ~30 minute audio collage about Mickey
Spillane, with spoken passages by John Lurie, sound effects (it opens
with a bloodcurdling scream), plus all kinds of film-noir style music
by Frisell, Mel Gibbs, Previte, Quine, et al.  The second piece is a
suite of instrumentals written for and played by guitarist Albert
Collins with great drumming by Ronald Shannon Jackson.  The third
piece is performed by Kronos Quartet with turntable-manipulator
Christian Marclay (sp).  This one was also released on a Kronos album.
It's my least favorite, though I haven't listened to it in a couple of
years.

"Big Gundown" is a collection of music written by soundtrack genius
Ennio Morricone ("The Good, the Bad, and the Ugly", "Once upon a Time
in the West", "Once upon a Time in America") reinterpreted by Zorn and
the usual downtown crew.  It's a masterpiece.

Oh, yeah, try to find the "Sonny Clark Memorial Quartet" (Zorn,
Previte, Horvitz, Drummond) "Voodoo", a fairly straight-ahead jazz
album.  It's on Black Saint.  Highly recommended.

  > By the way, do you think it would be worthwhile for me to pick up NEWS FOR LULU 
  > if I already have MORE NEWS?  I'm under the impression that quite a bit of the 
  > same material is covered on them and, since they aren't cheap, I'm inclined to 
  > forego purchasing NEWS.

Yeah, I'd pass on it.  Pick up one of these other ones instead.


--------------------------------------------------
Glenn Lea - reply to gwl@wavetracer.com
Wavetracer, Inc.
From: jaz@icd.ab.com (Jack A. Zucker)
Newsgroups: rec.music.bluenote
Subject: Re: Patitucci Leaves the Electric Band
Date: 9 Apr 92 21:10:21 GMT
Article-I.D.: icd.1992Apr9.211021.6914
Organization: Allen-Bradley Company, Inc.

In article <1992Apr9.164637.5493@cci632.cci.com>, th@cci632.cci.com (Tim Hinton) writes:
|> In article <1279@hydra.bucknell.edu> cwalker@canopus.tmc.edu (carleton walker `93) writes:
|> >In article <JANNE.SALMI.92Apr3032718@psykoman.hut.fi> Janne.Salmi@hut.fi (Janne Salmi) writes:
|> >>
|> >>NO!!!!
|> >>
|> >>Hope that Dave Weckl still stays with them.
|> >
|> >	Patitucci is more established (Weckl only has one solo album,
|> >Master Plan). I'm sure that Jimmy Earl is a great player.
|> >	Can you imagine what jazz would be like if Miles kept all of
|> >his original players?
|> >
|>     Could you imagine what jazz would be like ** Miles & Art ** kept all of 
|> their original players??
|> 
|> Tim

I don't know, but it would be a helluva big band :-)

BTW, some members overlapped I believe...

-Jaz
-- 

                       (Chasin' the Trane)

| Jack A Zucker                              {uunet}!jaz@icd.ab.com |
| Allen-Bradley Company, Inc.                    or  ICCGCC::ZUCKER |
| 747 Alpha Drive                                                   |
| Highland Hts., OH 44143 Phone(216) 646-4668   FAX: (216) 646-4484 | 
Newsgroups: rec.music.bluenote
From: timk@meaddata.com (Tim Klein)
Subject: Austin City Limits schedule?
Organization: Mead Data Central, Dayton OH
Date: Mon, 6 Apr 1992 17:19:59 GMT
Distribution: usa


Anybody know who'll be on Austin City Limits in the coming weeks?

===========================================================================
Timothy Klein                 I wish TV had a knob so you could turn up
timk@meaddata.com             the intelligence.  The one marked Brightness
...!uunet!meaddata!timk       doesn't work.      -- Gallagher
From: ujwb@uxa.ecn.bgu.edu (Jeff Beer)
Newsgroups: rec.music.bluenote
Subject: Re: What in the hell?
Date: 6 Apr 92 21:57:26 GMT
Article-I.D.: uxa.1992Apr6.215726.24954
Organization: Educational Computing Network

Thanks for the info.

I was certain I hadn't discovered some unkown Ornette, esp. not on
domestic labels.           

Jeff
From: herbsman@phoenix.Princeton.EDU (Tal Herbsman)
Newsgroups: rec.music.bluenote
Subject: Re: Mingus + Lacy
Date: 7 Apr 92 03:03:08 GMT
Organization: Princeton University
Originator: news@ernie.Princeton.EDU


In article <1992Apr6.204659.4165@cs.ubc.ca> dadoun@cs.ubc.ca (Nou Dadoun) writes:
>What this actually means is that the re-issue certainly has all of the
>tracks from the original release; the double-album (vinyl) reissue
>had newly-released alternate takes for all tracks but not all could
>fit on a single cd, so the alternate to Ysabel's Table Dance was dropped
>(I think it's still available on the cassette).  The same sort of thing
>happed with Sonny Rollins Quartets  with Jim Hall in the same series; they
>managed to retain all of The Bridge but dropped some interesting other tunes
>along the way.

and this (sniff) is the chief source of bitterness in my life.
I own the double LP complete SR-JH quartets, and this is the most majestic
jazz i know. EACH and EVERY track is priceless. i can never bring myself
to buy the RCA cd rerelease for such an act would be a latter-day
sophie's choice.

please help!! if you know of any import or obscure releases of the
complete album, or its original constituents for which i could 
shell out ridiculous $ please tell.

tal.

secret fantasy: david murray, pat metheny, bob cranshaw, and ben riley
                rerecord the exact same tracks as on the LP configuration

anyone else have such fantasies??
From: hhs@cbnewsm.cb.att.com (Sweetleaf)
Newsgroups: rec.music.bluenote
Subject: Re: April in the City
Date: 9 Apr 92 18:11:27 GMT
Distribution: na
Organization: AT&T


 smehta@nynexst.com writes:
>==============================================================================
>APR 1992 EVENTS (NYC)			     	DATE	       PLACE
>==============================================================================
>
>Avante-Garde Tribute to Louis Armstrong w/   Apr 19, 9pm	Knit Fact
>David Murray, Doc Cheatham, Alan Lowe, 
>Jack Purvas Memorial Band

   This show is also going to be broadcast live on WFMU 91.1 (out of
   East Orange).  I believe the broadcast runs from 10 PM to Midnight.

   Howard
-- 
************* Sweetleaf *************
********* hs@homxb.att.com ***************    
Newsgroups: rec.music.bluenote
From: rardin@binah.cc.brandeis.edu
Subject: Re: RTF
Reply-To: rardin@binah.cc.brandeis.edu
Organization: Brandeis University
Date: Fri, 10 Apr 1992 04:54:52 GMT

In article <35069@uflorida.cis.ufl.EDU>, cthulhu@raybans.cis.ufl.edu (Mark Kupper) writes:
>
>  Has RTF's Where Have I Known You Before been released on CD ever? I've had
>a hell of a time trying to find it. Thanks for any info.
>

It's available on CD as Polydor 826206-2.  I've had it for a couple of years.

-Lynn Rardin (rardin@auriga.rose.brandeis.edu)
Newsgroups: rec.music.bluenote
From: smehta@kwela.nynexst.Com (Sandeep Mehta)
Subject: Re: frisell and Berne?
Reply-To: smehta@nynexst.com
Organization: Speech Technology, AI Lab, NYNEX S&T Inc, White Plains, NY
Date: 13 Apr 92 15:38:35


> v125njuc@ubvmsb.cc.buffalo.edu (DA BIG FAT FUNKY BUTT-GROOVE) writes:

> Bill Frissel called "theoretically" or "Fulton street maul"?

It is out of print but it isn't hard to find, at least not in NYC.
Anyway here are the contents:

Berne, Tim                                                    CBS FC 40530 (LP)
Title: Fulton Street Maul                                                      
Recorded: 8/10/1986 - 8/14/1986 at Mad Hatter Studios, LA                      
Released: 1987
With: Tim Berne (leader), alto sax                                             
      Hank Roberts, cello, voice (voice on Betsy only.)                        
      Bill Frisell, electric guitar                                            
      Alex Cline, percussion, harmonic singing (singing on Betsy)              
Contents: 1) Unknown Disaster                                          ( 05:51)
          2) Icicles Revisited                                         ( 09:29)
          3) Miniature                                                 ( 07:03)
          4) Federico                                                  ( 09:12)
          5) Betsy                                                     ( 12:42)
          Total:                                                       ( 44:17)
Purchased: No Date
Comments: prod by Gary Lucas


p.s. please send me email re. tape copies etc.

/sandeep
--
smehta@nynexst.com
--
"An artist is never ahead of his time but most people are far behind theirs."
	-- Edgard Varese
Newsgroups: rec.music.bluenote
From: mingus@cbnewsl.cb.att.com (Damballah Wedo)
Subject: Re: Dave Holland
Organization: The Poto Mitan in the Houmfor
Date: Mon, 13 Apr 1992 17:20:27 GMT

> tcw@kepler.unh.edu (Timothy C Webb) (in <1992Apr10.185910.11841@nic.unh.edu>):
> 
>    Can anybody recommend some good albums with Dave Holland on bass (excluding
> anything recorded under his own name)? Being a bass player myself, I've
> developed a great respect for his playing, and would greatly appreciate any
> suggestions of recordings featuring his incredible work. 

Here's a partial (i.e. in the 600 records I've managed to enter so far :-);
I'm quite positive I have another 20-30 records he appears on) list of Holland's
work as a sideman:

Abercrombie, John - Gateway                                            (ECM 1975, LP)
Abercrombie, John - Gateway 2                                          (ECM 1978, LP)
Abrams, Muhal Richard - Colors in Thirty-Third                 (Black Saint 1987, CD)
Altschul, Barry - You Can't Name Your Own Tune                        (Muse 1977, LP)
Braxton, Anthony - The Complete Braxton 1971                (Arista-Freedom 1977, LP)
Braxton, Anthony - New York, Fall 1974                      (Arista-Freedom 1975, LP)
Braxton, Anthony - The Montreux/Berlin Concerts             (Arista-Freedom 1977, LP)
Carroll, Baikida - Shadows and Reflections                       (Soul Note 1982, LP)
Coleman, Steve - Black Science                                       (Novus 1991, CD)
Hart, Billy - Enchance                                               (A & M 1977, LP)
Rivers, Sam - Rendez-Vous                                          (Vedette 1977, LP)
Walcott, Collin - Cloud Dance                                          (ECM 1976, LP)
Wallace, Bennie - Big Jim's Tango                                     (Enja 1983, LP)

It's tricky to get files to cbnewsl, which is why you are getting the
short rather than the long listing.

Enjoy!
-- 
Marcel-Franck Simon             	mingus@usl.com, usl!mingus

	" Papa Loko, ou se' van, ou-a pouse'-n ale'
	  Nou se' papiyon, n'a pote' nouvel bay Agwe' "
From: millerje@CS.ColoState.EDU (Jeff Miller)
Newsgroups: rec.music.bluenote
Subject: Re: That Fabulous Fender/Rhodes sound (was Re: Chick-Round II)
Date: 12 Apr 92 19:06:28 GMT
Organization: Colorado State University, Computer Science Department

>Now, does anyone remember the sound of a Rhodes through a ring modulator,
>e.g. Mike Nock in the Fourth Way?  Very hip. 

I believe that Jan Hammer also used a ring modulator on a Rhodes when he
was in the Mahavishnu Orchestra... intense music, VERY weird sound

-- 
 _____________________________________________________________________________
|                                                                             |
| "Nuke the unborn gay whales!" |  millerje@cs.colostate.edu  |  Jeff Miller  |
|_____________________________________________________________________________|
Organization: University Libraries - Administration, Carnegie Mellon, Pittsburgh, PA
Newsgroups: rec.music.bluenote
Date: Wed, 15 Apr 1992 09:59:26 -0400 
From: Ignatios Alexander <ia0n+@andrew.cmu.edu>
Subject: Re: Martin Williams

   
Before finding and reading Martin Williams' books about the music, 
I remember first seeing his name as the writer of liner notes
on some the Atlantic records of Ornette and Coltrane.

I'm sure Gary Giddins will note his passing with an article in
the Village Voice.  In the past Giddins has praised Williams and Whitney
Balliett of the New Yorker as the models that most influenced him.


---Ignatios Alexander
Newsgroups: rec.music.bluenote
From: srcd@faraday.physics.utoronto.ca (Solomon Douglas)
Subject: Re: Hip Chord Voicings
Organization: Dept. of Physics, Univ. of Toronto
Date: Wed, 15 Apr 1992 02:27:25 GMT

In article <17570273@hpfcso.FC.HP.COM> mjs@hpfcso.FC.HP.COM (Marc Sabatella) writes:
>Be careful here.  While the discussion here has made it abundantly clear that
>there are no standards for chord symbols, I do believe "most" people use 7b9b5
>to connote the HW diminshed scale.  Since the HW scale has 8 notes, there are
>bound to be ambiguities (ie, is C#/Db in G HW diminished a raised fourth or
>flatted fifth).  As opposed to the "lydian dominant" scale, which clearly has
>a raised fourth and not a flatted fifth.  Don't let everyone be on the wrong
>beat except you, Sol :-)

Sorry Marc...  I guess I just either never saw b9b5 used for a diminished
scale or I did and didn't realise that was the scale intended.  Thanks for
cluing me in. :)

>OK, enough pedantics.  Jack, I dig your ii-V tritone sub (ie, Abm7-Db7 for G7).
>I use it often as well.  However, it, and your Bird lick with B7 superimposed
>over the G7, reminds me of something.
>
>In "Yardbird Suite", the second measure is listed variously as either Fm7-Bb7
>or Ab7.  Since the first and third measures are C, one might consider either of
>those two versions of the second measures to be substitutes for Dm7-G7.
>Question: has anyone noticed either of these subs used anywhere else?  I've
>never experimented with them to see if they really work for me in general
>(whereas I have with the ii-V tritone sub, and it does), but I probably will
>soon.

I don't know if the Fm7-Bb7 substitutes successfully for Dm7-G7 but I do
know that I've seen Fm7-Bb7 resolve to a C chord lots of times.  Look at
the first few bars of Tad Dameron's "Lady Bird" (or, equivalently, Miles'
"Half Nelson") for example.  Hmmm, where else...  I've used it in my own
compositions but I can hardly use that as evidence... :)  Uhh...  Bars 3-5
of "Just Friends"...  I can't think of anything else off-hand.

Smiles! :)

Sol
-- 
 Solomon <|>   srcd@faraday.physics.utoronto.ca
 Douglas /|\   srcd@sq.sq.com
From: mingus@cbnewsl.cb.att.com (Damballah Wedo)
Newsgroups: rec.music.bluenote
Subject: Re: Black Saint availability (was: Random Thoughts - ROVA, Wire, new stuff)
Date: 13 Apr 92 16:59:48 GMT
Article-I.D.: cbnewsl.1992Apr13.165948.16815
Organization: The Poto Mitan in the Houmfor

> hsu@sp24.csrd.uiuc.edu (William Tsun-Yuk Hsu):
> Speaking of earlier Black Saints, does anyone know a reliable source
> of the things? 

Sphere is the distributor for BS/SN in the United States. Thanks to 
Bonandrini's nothing-goes-out-of-print policy, they carry a pretty
complete (especialyl if you are willing to wait, or if you order
alternates) catalog.

The address is:

Sphere Marketing and Distribution Inc.
Cargo Building 80, Room 2A
JFK Airport
Jamaica, NY 11430

(718) 656-6220

They ship pretty quickly, but they are expensive: $14.99 per CD,
$11.99 per LP. Make sure you ask them if their buy-10-get-4-free
offer is still valid.

Note that they are a bit sleazy in that they will sell you Polygram
Special Import leftovers (i.e. remaindered, i.e. CHEAP!) at the full
price. Complain, complain, complain. First because this is illegal
(yes it is; this is misrepresentation of the product) and second
because if you are loud enough, they might send you 1-2 free things to
shut you up.

-- 
Marcel-Franck Simon             	mingus@usl.com, usl!mingus

	" Papa Loko, ou se' van, ou-a pouse'-n ale'
	  Nou se' papiyon, n'a pote' nouvel bay Agwe' "
Newsgroups: rec.music.bluenote,rec.music.makers
From: tcw@kepler.unh.edu (Timothy C Webb)
Subject: Re: Dave Holland
Organization: University of New Hampshire  -  Durham, NH
Date: Tue, 14 Apr 1992 20:02:32 GMT

In article <SMEHTA.92Apr14134242@kwela.nynexst.Com> smehta@nynexst.com writes:
>> william sadler <wsadler@copper.ucs.indiana.edu> writes:
>> Can you post all of his albums as leader?
>
>This is only what I have. The Berger and Rivers dates are co-led. 
>As a leader:
>Berger, Karl - Transit (w/ Holland, Blackwell)           (Black Saint 1987, CD)
>Holland, Dave - Conference Of The Birds                          (ECM 1973, CD)
>Holland, Dave - Jumpin' In                                       (ECM 1984, CD)
>Holland, Dave - Seeds Of Time                                    (ECM 1985, CD)
>Holland, Dave - The Razor's Edge                                 (ECM 1987, CD)
>Holland, Dave - Triplicate                                       (ECM 1988, CD)
>Holland, Dave - Extensions                                       (ECM 1990, CD)
>Rivers, Sam - Vol. 2 w/ Dave Holland                             (IAI 1977, LP)

  He also did a solo bass album (I think around 1976) called Emerald Tears.

-- 
===============================================================================
|    Tim Webb                \      "I will think of                          |
|     tcw@kepler.unh.edu      \       something really good..."               |
===============================================================================
Newsgroups: rec.music.bluenote
From: herbsman@phoenix.Princeton.EDU (Tal Herbsman)
Subject: Re: Dave Holland
Originator: news@ernie.Princeton.EDU
Organization: Princeton University
Date: Sat, 11 Apr 1992 14:57:36 GMT

In article <1992Apr11.053122.11370@CSD-NewsHost.Stanford.EDU> gidi@Hilbert.Stanford.EDU (Gidi Avrahami) writes:
>APPETITES is my favorite Carla Bley project, and DH
>contributes a neat cello and some fat, funky bass.

he also does some cello on one track off m.r. abrams' _colors on 33rd_

tal.
From: brian@grot.ca41.csd.mot.com (Brian Smithson)
Newsgroups: rec.music.bluenote
Subject: Re: Chick-Round II
Date: 11 Apr 92 13:58:58 GMT
Organization: Brian Smithson

ujwb@uxa.ecn.bgu.edu (Jeff Beer) writes:

>and also BLISS.  It actually was drummer Pete LaRoca's date, but Chick
>had the big name.  Features some great tenor playing of John Gilmore,
>from Sun Ra's band.  Most (if not all ) La Roca's tunes.

Oh, that answers my comment about the writing on this one.  I guess I should
read the cover before posting, yes?

I'd still like to hear about any other recordings of this band.

-- 
-Brian Smithson
 Motorola Inc., Computer Group, Commercial Systems Division
 2001 Logic Drive, San Jose, CA 95124 USA, (408)369-4104
 brian@csd.mot.com, {apple | pyramid}!motcsd!brian