From: bhatnagr@ucunix.san.uc.edu (Raj Bhatnagar)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.indian
Subject: Re: RAMAJANMA BHUMI: AYODHYA-New Archaeological Discoveries
Date: 8 Nov 92 02:45:37 GMT
Organization: University of Cincinnati

In article <92311.123757RKD100@psuvm.psu.edu> RKD100@psuvm.psu.edu writes:
>If one grants the fact that there was a hindu temple even before the
>11th. century, and that it was indeed replaced by a masjid, what's
>the proof that this is ram's birth-place?  

The point is not whether it is Ram's birth place or not, but that a
temple *believed to be representing Ram's birthplace* stood at this site.


>Moreover, nobody has
>ever replied cogently to the question "So what if it was Ram's
>birthplace?"

And has anybody ever cogently tried to answer the question "So what
if Babar's victory tower is demolished?"


>: the fact is that it is disputed, best to leave it
>alone and not try to show one's purushatva by trying to undo history.


And the basic underlying current of the Mahabharata is that Kauravas
had made everything disputed - starting from the Kingdom down to the 
personal freedom of Draupadi - and that did not mean that the things 
should not have been Righted! 

>One cannot conquer time. Even if the hindu temple is put up, what will
>it prove?  that we are "men" enough to "redeem" our ancestors'
>collective honour?  

No. The question is not as much of redeeming our ancestor's honour, as
it is of driving home the point that in future the attitude of insult
and agression towards the native culture, heritage, and institutions
will not be allowed to go unchallenged.

>sorry, i don't think it will prove anything except
>that we are a fractious idle lot with nothing better to do than fight
>over ruins that our ancestors at least had the gumption to build.

And the point being advanced by the opponents of RJB is that nobody's 
ancestors never built no building at no site anywhere near no temple
in Ayodhya.
(Get it?)
A change in this attitude, an acceptance that what was done was wrong,
and that in today's India the attitude towards the native culture will
have to different, are some minor evolutionary changes that will bring
a lot of social peace into Indian society.

>Why not let sleeping dogs lie and build a Ram Janmabhoomi Smarak half
>a mile away and put up a big signboard near the mosque that says:
>
>WE THE HINDUS OF  ___  IN OUR MAGNANIMITY GRANT THIS MOST SCARED SITE
>TO THE MUSLIMS AND IN MEMORY OF OUR GREAT SACRIFICE HAVE BUILT AN
>EVEN GREATER TEMPLE HALF A MILE AWAY WITH A TRANSPONDER THAT RELAYS
>YOUR PRAYERS TO THE SAME PLACE THAT IT WOULD HAVE BEEN RELAYED HAD YOU
>PRAYED IN THE ORIGINAL SPOT!!!.

And what's wrong with the sign:

>
>WE THE BABRI SUPPORTERS OF  ___  IN OUR MAGNANIMITY GRANT THIS MOST 
>SACRED SITE TO THE HINDUS AS A SIGN OF OUR BELIEF THAT WHATEVER BABAR
>DID WAS WRONG, AND IN MEMORY OF OUR GREAT CHANGE OF HEART HAVE BUILT A
>BABRI MEMORIAL WITH THE HELP OF THE HINDUS HALF A MILE AWAY FROM THE 
>SITE WHICH BABAR HAD DESTROYED.

YES, I know what is wrong with this sign. It implies suffering on part
of the memory of the psecular Babar and his supporters, and in case of your
suggestion the suffering will rightfully be inflicted on the communalistic
Hindu traditions of the communalistic and decadent ancient Indian civilization.

>Surely this will be in the finest hindu tradition of giving away what one
>holds most beloved, 

Sir, the era when Hindus gave away what they loved most is gone. That 
tradition was meant for the Yuga of decency and not today. Today's hindu
is out to recover whatever has been stolen from him/her over the last 
numerous centuries by the barbarian (but Psecular, though!) invaders
aaiiicchhhh. . . , bhikshuks.

>even to the extent of one's own son (e.g. the ganting
>of Nachiketa to Yama) in order to achieve salvation.
>

No sir, First I want to secure the survival of my home, my hearth, 
my life, my culture, and my religious and social institutions in 
THIS world, and then and only then Will I worry about the hereafter.
May I request you to lock this stuff about "salvation" and "hereafter"
in a box - and may as well donate it to the psecular bhikshuks?


>Ahimsa virasya dharmam.... regards, Rajib

Shariramaadyam khalu dharmasaadhanam.....

(Trans : Preserving the body is the first step towards being
able to perform any Dharma/duty, and I am referring here
to the body of the Hindu Sociaety)


---raj
Newsgroups: soc.culture.indian