From: root@rwsys.wimsey.bc.ca (Superuser)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.canada,can.politics
Distribution: world
Subject: Re: Negative Income Tax (Was: Social programs)
Organization: RWSYS Exporter BBS system
Date: Fri,  1 Jan 93 14:12:05 PST

golchowy@alchemy.chem.utoronto.ca (Gerald Olchowy) writes:
> In article <1992Dec31.183210.27586@athena.mit.edu> cmk@athena.mit.edu (Charles M Kozierok) writes:
> >In article <1992Dec31.072545.19630@alchemy.chem.utoronto.ca> golchowy@alchemy.chem.utoronto.ca (Gerald Olchowy) writes:
> >>
[...]
> >your political rights" is to walk into a voting booth. *anyone* can do that --
> >we do not have widespread famine and starvation on a Somalia-like scale here.
> >and we wouldn't under an objectivist society either. this is simply a crutch
> >you keep leaning on to justify socialist policies while insisting that they
> >are not socialist...
> >
> 
> A starving homeless person with pneumonia cannot exactly make it to the
> voter's booth...but such a person has the right to vote, and it is
> a legitimate function of the state to act so that person has the capability
> to vote, just as it is for the state to set up courts and police forces
> to protect the right of property.

I value democracy. My experience is that democracy falls apart in the face
of wide spread poverty. The poverty doesn't have to be brutal, merely
widely resented in order to put democracy at risk.

I lived in L.A. in the mid-80's amidst the economic boom. Though I made
some good money, I left because the violence was rediculous. I got robbed
at gun-point, broken into, my neighbor was shot at when he tried to stop
a burglar, and the proprietor of a restaurant next door to my workplace
was murdered so a thief could make off with the til. Now, I see the L.A.
riots as merely a peak in a continous violence. I think of this
'criminal' activity as politcal activity resulting from the failure
of the free market.

The remarkable thing about L.A. is the intense contrast of economic
stratification. Most of the violence that I saw came from people in 
the lower end of the economic strata. It is also notable that most
places in the US provide strong police, courts and many jails to
combat this threat. But, It doesn't work, In my opinion, other than
to redistribute some wealth to the burgeoning justice system. I
suspect the democracy in America is vulnerable to some sort of
"justice-industrial complex".

After a year in L.A. I moved 'back' to Vancouver, BC. I make a similar 
amount of money, but taxes are higher. Never-the-less, I get to keep 
what I get (beyond my taxes). With a tax based redistribution of my 
wealth, I get a vote. At the point of a gun, I had no say what-so-ever. 
There is violence here. I read about it in the paper, otherwise, I
wouldn't know it exists.

There are many people on welfare. I pay the taxes that support them
and I do not feel compelled to say that they must work in order to
get a slice of my tax dollars. Now, if I resented my own work, I might
feel that it is unfair that others should be able to escape misery that
I have to endure. 

Finally, it is evident to me that human enterprise IS motivated by
money, power and prestige. But it is not neccesary for people to 
become billionaires in order to have sustained motivation.

Human enterprise does not collapse when high incomes are taxed. I would 
indeed love to make a greater personal prosperity so I could pay more of 
this kind of taxes I pay here in Canada. 

There are a couple of things that can ruin my rather happy feelings: 

1. If the tax I paid was being disproportionatly used to fatten an elite
from which I were excluded.

2. If the tax rates became so onerous that I began to have difficulties 
exceeding what I see as my basic needs. That is, I must continue to 'profit' 
by my enterprise.

Randy

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