From: mec6@quads.uchicago.edu (rini)
Subject: Re: Why I Am a Feminist
Reply-To: mec6@midway.uchicago.edu
Organization: University of Chicago Computing Organizations
Date: Tue, 10 Nov 1992 16:52:00 GMT

payner@netcom.com (Rich Payne) writes:
>mec6@midway.uchicago.edu writes:
>>payner@netcom.com (Rich Payne) writes:
>>>mec6@midway.uchicago.edu writes:
  
>>>>Rich, the point is that the useage of the term "rape" does not imply  
>>>>that the poster is using it to make men look bad. 
>>>   
>>>That was not -my- point. Make whatever point you wish, but -as- your
>>>point. 
>>  
>>Yes, that was *my* point.  
> 
>">>>Rich, the point is that the useage", notice you said, "the point".

Yes, Rich, *my* point, and "the point" Gordon Fitch made (which was
orignally immediately above my text).  Whatsamatter?  Whats the problem?  
What IS *your* point here???????  Hello?  Anybody home?

>>But who has made it a common word?  People who want to be pronents
>>of men's rights.  Are you saying that by using the word "rape" they
>>are somehow undermining their cause?
>>
>>If you think this, you should check your own posts more carefully,
>>because you have done it several times yourself.
>
>Which completely misses the point. Play the blame game with rini!

What?  WHAT?  WHAT ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT????  Who am I blaming?
For what?  

If I'm missing your point, it's only because it is NOT THERE.

>>>>Second, and most important for your point, there were many 
>>>>more posts which used to term "rape" to point to a negative 
>>>>aspect of "feminism" than used the term to point anything 
>>>>about men.
>>>
>>>Actually, most started from quotes by feminists like MacKinnon, but
>>>the threads often extend far beyond expiration. 
>>
>>Exactly.  When was the last time people used MacKinnon to say nice
>>things about feminism?
>
>See, you treat comments about MacKinnon as attacks upon all of
>feminism. Is this not the same kind of thing GF seems to hate
>about anti-feminists? 

Rich!  You drive me nuts!  Read what I said!  I said people like to use
MacKinnon to point to ->A NEGATIVE ASPECT<- of feminism.  Shit,
Rich, *I* DO THAT!  I point to MacKinnon to point to a negative aspect
of feminism.  What else can you do with it?   What's the problem?

The ^H^H^H  err... *MY* point is that when you say the word "rape" 
chances are that you are using it in the context of bashing Dworkin 
or MacKinnon (at least it appears that way from the data YOU distributed)
and that you are *not* saying it to make men look bad.  Is that so very
hard to grasp?  

>>>>In short, I can't see how Rich got the impression that this news
>>>>group overwhelmingly refers to men as rapists.
>>> 
>>>So you think that this usage is normal.
>>
>>I'm just anylyzing the data you gave me.  It was your "proof."
>
>No, there is no such thing as proof. But there is such a thing
>as evidence. You asked for it, you got it. But you still find
>something to bitch about.

Okay: I'm just anylyzing the data you gave me.  It was your "evidence."

In short, I found *no* support for your contention, looking at the way "
rape" was used in discussion here.  Not *one* post held that the 
average man is a rapist.  Indeed, as I said before, when the words 
"man" and "rape" appear on the same line, the linkage is almost 
always "man as victim of unjust accusation."   In the data you 
gave us, there was not *one* case of, say, "...men rape...".  Not one. 

Really, I think I did a quite careful job analyzing the data which
you held up as your "proof".... err.. I mean "evidence".  If you
can do better, please go for it.  Analyze the data yourself.  
Maybe then you can find some shread of an argument for countering
my claim that what *I* found clearly DOES NOT support your argument.

Unless of course you are flat out arguing the hitting the letters
r-a-p-e on your keyboard in and of itself constitute an assault on the
character of men everywhere.... (?)  (Btw, if this is so, I think it's
just as easily argued that it's an assualt on women everywhere to
mention "rape".)

Now really, this is getting ridiculous.  Try real hard this time to
come up with a real argument.  Please?

Sheez.  And people think feminists are irrational.  Damn.

rini

Newsgroups: alt.feminism