From: bkannan@ha10.eng.ua.edu (Balaji Kannan)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.indian
Subject: Re: On the birth of Andhra Pradesh (was Re: I HATE TAMILS)
Date: 26 Aug 1992 00:47:15 -0500
Organization: UTexas Mail-to-News Gateway
NNTP-Posting-Host: cs.utexas.edu



vprasad@uoft02.utoledo.edu writes:

                  [stuff deleted]
>
>  Secondly, no, I never advocated any Jihad to wrest Madras back from
>  TN (which is what you are implicitly accusing me of). I am not even
>  trying to incite any hatred towards Tamils; rest assured, that was
>  never my intention. If anybody does propose anything of that sort in
>  the future, I shall oppose it tooth and nail. Nobody here is even
>  remotely trying to reset the historical clock. No one is blaming the
>  present Tamilians for the mistakes of a *few politicians* of a bygone
>  generation.

           Hey, You are getting too emotional. This response of yours is
           totally out-of-tone with your earlier post and I wonder why you
           should assume that *you* are being accused of inciting hatred-
           implicitly or otherwise. I wonder , if it were the real you that
           posted the previous article and I find this sudden change of tone
           a little discomforting.


                     [stuff deleted]

>  [I don't know if this counts towards proving my goodwill towards
>  Tamilians, but I have lived in Madras for 4 years myself. In USA, in
>  the past 3 years, I had so far *9* Tamilians, *1* Telugu and *1*
>  Kannadigar as roommates. And, *all* my present roomies are Tamilians,
>  all from Madras, with whom I have excellent friendship. It pains me
>  very deeply to be accused of harboring hatred towards Tamilians.]


          Could you show me where in my post I accused *you* of harboring
          hatred. Please do that before overreacting to imagined fears and
          accusations.

             [stuff deleted]

>  You seem to think that Telugus demanded a separate state, *just for
>  the sake of asserting our Teluguness*, judging by the above statements.
>  [What else would have prompted you to comment "looking beyond their
>  own cultural or linguistic backgrounds"?] Which is exactly what we
>  are taking so much effort to negate and disprove.


           I am not saying this is the case with Telugus only. O.K, if
           you feel offended I'll leave out Telugus. This is the case with
           Tamils, Bengalis, .......

              [stuff deleted]


>  Second, Serbs-Croats-Bosnians are agitating to form separate political
>  entities (countries) and want to have nothing to do with each other.
>  Contrast it with our wish to be a only a separate state, but still
>  remain in the same country and never advocating secession. Heck, ever


          The Serbs-Croats-Bosnians are agitating to form separate political
          entities *today*. What makes you think that we Indians would not be
          doing it tomorrow ? The forces at work there are very much in
          presence, however subdued, in India in a lot of Indian states.
          All we need is an issue to ignite it. Once ignited, you, who wants
          all the states to remain united, will have no control over the
          situation. I am surprised at your naivette here. Didn't you read
          about the recent Cauvery waters dispute & how the parties in power
          exploited the situation. The casualty in all this was the goodwill
          of the people of both states. Mind you,that was a relatively less
          volatile and less contentious issue.


>        since the formation of separate states, AP and TN have had excellent
>        relations with each other, as you yourself put it. I see no reason
                                                            ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>        why such a feeling should immediately evaporate to form a Balkan-like
         ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>        situation, when all is being asked for is a proper examination of the
         ^^^^^^^^^^


           I guess you know that "relative deprivation" works both ways.
           [M. Karunanidhi in  his inimitable style put it thus "Vadarkku
           Valargirathu, Therku Theigirathu" meaning, "North is progressing,
           [growing] while the South is wearing out"]. Leave alone the issue
           of Madras. In a country, as diverse and huge as ours, with a
           Centralized politcal structure, it is difficult to ensure that
           all states have an economy that grows at an equal pace and that
           investment is doled out equally to all states. Sometimes these
           are purely politically motivated. The result is, you have some
           states growing at a much faster rate than the rest. The ones
           that have grown economically stronger look forward to enjoying
           political power commensurate with their economic success and find
           the other states  a burden to be borne.[Now, this is a force that
           is difficult to stop. An example of this is Ukraine. A rough
           parallel would be Punjab in India,though there are other factors
           too at work in Punjab].

                                   The economically meeker states on the
           other hand, feel that the reason for their underdevelopment
           is due to  lack of Central investments and infrastructural
           facilities. This could be true or false. The feeling however
           is that another state is growing at their cost. Good excuse for
           some of our politicians there to secede. [Now,this is another
           force that is difficult to stop. If you look at Italy, Spain &
           some other European states these are pulling them apart. In India,
           Orissa' chief minister threatened "secession" if the Centre failed
           to invest adequately in that state in the future. The case of some
           Eastern stets is far worser]. On even the issue of economy of their
           respective states, I think Andhra and T.N can go their own ways.
           If that be the case, I think an issue like "Parts of madras should
           go to Andhra" is simply recipe for disaster. Unfortunately, I don't
           share your optimism that this issue would be allowed discussion
           in T.N,  much less peaceful negotiations.[maybe I am being insecure
           but that is my opinion]. It is not academicians that deicde these
           issues but politicians. About our present day politicians, well,
           you know.


>  *facts* of that era. We are providing our side of the story; if you
>  have info. to the contrary of any of our claims, please share it with
>  us. You will be more than welcome. You have just made a fundamental
>  mistake in logic - that of, "superficial similarities *never* make an
>  exact parallel".
>

        The days of faith in non-violence, satya etc. are gone,my dear fellow.
        You might be one of the rare exceptions, if ever you enter politics,
        to hold fast to such principles. One look at the political situation
        in India will tell you which way the wind is blowing. The younger
        generation is getting increasingly restless and finding refuge in
        "violence" and the politicians have become adept at exploiting the
        situation to suit their ends. If you are telling me that, T.N and
        Andhra will settle this issue through peaceful means, I should say
        [repetition] that you are out-of-touch with the times and with reality.
        There is more than a superficial similarity in this case and I am
        afraid you have missed to notice that. Please do some checking.


>>>    Hope that helps clarify some of my intentions and apologies to you and
>>
>>            You shame me.

>        Now what was that insult for? If you must insist on getting personal
>        and calling me names, I am afraid that I cannot continue this debate
>        with you. Hopefully, you will retract this.
>

             Calling names! I guess you are imagining a lot.
             I guess, I've clarified to you thro e-mail what that meant
             and it was in no way an insult. You apologised twice in your
             post and I felt that you had not personally attacked anyone
             to apologise nor was my response intended to extract one from
             you. Maybe, I should have phrased it differently. At least,my 
             first response on this topic was a little knee-jerk & I didn't
             feel comfortable seeing you apologise instead.  About  your
             inability to carry on this debate with me further, I have
             reciprocal feelings & I think you are getting too sentimental and
             too personal. When I say "resetting the historical clock" I
             don't necessarily mean *you* are the one doing it. When I say, an
             issue like this can poison people froever, I don't mean *you*
             are solely responsible for that unless ofcourse you have
             plans of going back to India and politicizing this issue, which
             I don't think you are going to.

>Siva Prasad                             vprasad@uoft02.utoledo.edu

              This will be my last response on this issue and I don't
              intend interfering any further. Hey, what the heck! I
              am not even from Madras :) [I've lived there for a while
              and stayed there often though]  If the topic were "Should
              Coimbatore be a part of Kerala or T.N, I will begin
              reexamining facts in all earnest and even assume Vishwaroop :)
              I will probably lock horns with Icarus then :)

        cheers,
        Balaji Kannan


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