From: weiner@bnlls1.nsls.bnl.gov (Gary Weiner)
Subject: Re: taxes, theft, police, etc.
Organization: Brookhaven National Laboratory, Upton, NY 11973
Date: Thu, 3 Sep 1992 22:52:48 GMT

In article <89.2AA3B7D7@toadnet.org> Roger.Franz@p0.f16.n8012.z86.Toadnet.org (Roger Franz) writes:
>
>
> > GW: God, you "taxes are theft" people are so thick it's just incredible. 

I've already said this was out of line...sorry

>Perhaps we're in the majority? 

I doubt it.

> > GW: dollars. Why 
> > GW: can't I just walk into your house, put a gun in your face, and 
> > GW: take what 
> > GW: I like with impunity, because tax dollars pay for police to protect 
> > GW: you. 
> 
>You can probably do that now. The police won't arrive until 15 minutes 
>after you've shot your victim dead. And they can't be sued for poor service
> (sovereign immunity laws), so the poor victim's family has no recourse. 

But would I, no. Why, because as much as I might hate your guts(I don't by
the way) I'm not going to kill you because I will probably go to jail
and lose most of the benefits I've accrued in society. 

Hard core criminals have less to lose than you and I, which is why this
method is less effective no them.

By the way, what do expect from the police, a 24 hour armed guard. The
police are there to enforce the law, not protect you personally. But, 
their enforcement of the law gives you a mearsure of protection that
I don't think you fully realize.
 
> > GW: a government to stand behind  the money so you don't have to 
> > GW: lug a bushel 
> > GW: of wheat around to barter to get shoes for your kids. 
> 
>This didn't happen in other semi-anarchist societies; why would it happen 
>now?  Barter is a long-established custom; it goes on today. The 
>underground economy is close to a trillion dollars strong nowadays, 
>and growing stronger daily. Hooray for capitalism! Down with socialism! 

What is a semi-anarchist society? Is this like being half-pregnant?

And furthermore, without a government, there would be no money. That's
right no money. You might get by with gold or some other intrinsic
value metal, but its damn inconvenient.

Why are you so happy about the underground economy, these are people
who reap the benefits of society and don't pay their dues. I remember
overhearing a man who was talking on a pay phone, he was a carpenter
who was working off the books when he fell off a roof and injured
himself. He seemeed to think that now the government should take care of
him even though he hadn't paid any taxes. These are the kind of poeple
in the underground economy.  
 
> > GW: As a matter of fact, without government funded schools and universitys, 
> > GW:  we 
> > GW: would still be a backward agrarian people. 
> 
>Not true either. You socialists really like to distort the truth. 

Wow, I don't think I've EVER been called a socialist. I should save this
post and show it to my friends.


> > GW: Taxes  are the dues you pay to society in return for all the 
> > GW: benefits you 
> 
>Ah, the benefits. [government abuses deleted]

Yes, the benefits. Do you think you've recieved nothing from the 
government? Police protection, Roads and bridges, protection in the 
workplace, schools, and the network that we now argue on?

> > GW: elect someone who'll vote the way you want. 
> 
>We can't; you won't let us put him on the ballot! 

Sure you can, if you are truly the majority, its not hard at all.
Ross Perot did it, why can you? Or would you rather just whine about
it.
Gary J. Weiner  | Brookhaven National Laboratories  | "The killer awoke 
PO BOX 715      | National Synchrotron Light Source |  before dawn...
Upton,NY 11973  |    weiner@bnlls1.nsls.bnl.gov     |  he put his boots on..."