HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: wdb3926@zeus.tamu.edu (BRUTON, WILLIAM DANIEL)
Subject: Re: Interactions between astral and phyisical planes ?
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41    
Organization: Texas A&M University, Academic Computing Services
Date: Fri, 21 Aug 1992 06:55:00 GMT

In article <92233.174934SRK8@psuvm.psu.edu>, <SRK8@psuvm.psu.edu> writes...
>To start with, I have never had an OOBE, but reading the posts here I gather
>that one does interact with other people.  So, are these people also in the
>astral plane or are they in the physical plane.  One poster says that
>"barely do they even notice me".  Can u be more specific as to the "amount"
>of interest they showed in u ? and what could be the possible reason of
>"barely noticing" ? has anyon emadde attempts at contacting pple in their
>physical plane ?
> 
>It could be true that since I have really not had an OOBE, my questions are
>nonsensical, but please try to answer as much as u can.  thnakx in advance.
> 
> 
>Kumar

Those are good questions.  I remember seeing a few people during oobe's
on a rare occasions.  I do not know whether these people were others
having oobe's or just my imagination (I have found that things just
appear when you think of them during an oobe).....or perhaps someone in
the "astral" plane who does not have a physical body at the moment.
I cannot be sure that it is even the "astral" plane that I'm going to...
however I suspect....
I'm still conducting test to see how "real" this place is.

One of the persons that I saw was a young girl playing with blocks and
toys of some sort.  She was too busy playing to see me.  I'm 
fairly certain that she was not in the "physical plane".  That's
about all I can say for sure.

The techniques that I sometimes use for relaxation (for stimulation oobe's) 
are similar to those suggested by Self-Realizaiton Fellowship (SRF).  
They offer some lessons for relaxation.  
Although their lessons never say the words "out of body" the 
techniques work well for relaxation.  (They say "samadhi" which
may be related to oobe's......not sure.)

Write
	Self-Realization Fellowship
	3880 San Rafael Avenue
	Los Angeles, California 90065

and ask for info on lessons if you're interested.

Anyone ever heard of SRF?

Have a good day,
Dan
From: SRK8@psuvm.psu.edu
Newsgroups: alt.oobe
Subject: Re: This naming stuff!!
Date: 20 Aug 92 02:31:59 GMT
Organization: Penn State University

In article <1992Aug19.161436.14169@doug.cae.wisc.edu>, christin@cae.wisc.edu
(Christine Haas) says:
>
>There is all this talk about what to name this group!
>
>What is wrong with alt.oobe??  I like it!!  It has many
>benefits.. skeptics will not know what oobe is so they will
>most likely just ignore it and those who know what it is will
>most likely have something good to offer to the group!

I entirely agree. I would really like this group to go full swing.

Kumar
Newsgroups: alt.oobe
Subject: Re: experiments
From: jtulli@eagle.wesleyan.edu
Date: 18 Aug 92 14:17:12 EDT
Organization: Wesleyan University

this is my own personal opinion regarding experiments like those that have been
discussed here recently--you know, the one where you try to look at a card
while out of body.
well, it seems to me that once out of body, we don't want to do something as
mundane as looking at a card; it feels real so for the moment we want to enjoy
the experience or at least experience the experience; you know--work on areas
of personal growth and that kind of thing.  it's only when we get back to the
body that we think "i should have looked at the card".
i think a variant of such an experiment in which two close friends or lovers,
at least one of whom can project, are separated and then recount their
experiences during the time of the experiment, especially but not only if at
least one of them was successful in inducing an obe would be a more successful
way to gather evidence.  unfortunately people might say "they agreed on a story
beforehand," but to my mind it is easier to do something out of body if there
is a deep-rooted desire to do it.  and it's not that easy to foster a desire to
spend precious out-of-body time trying to prove that what is real to us now is
indeed real.
(just my opinion, remember :)

Jude
Newsgroups: alt.oobe,alt.config,alt.dreams,alt.paranormal,alt.consciousness
From: jgn@vixen.uucp (22122-niederberger)
Subject: Re: OBE Newsgroup Name
Reply-To: jgn@vixen.UUCP ()
Organization: Bellcore, Livingston, NJ
Date: Mon, 17 Aug 92 14:04:38 GMT

In article <Bsvx72.GyD@watserv1.uwaterloo.ca> mjanzen@healthy.uwaterloo.ca (Michael Edward Janzen) writes:
>
>I've spent a lot of time choosing between 2 grad schools.
>On Sunday I had a dream about #1 (the one I eventually chose).
>It had a strong hint that going would be a mistake.
>Yesterday I had a dream about #2, in which I stated that I 
>wanted to go there.
>
>I wonder whether I should really have gone to #2 instead.
>Do you think the dreams might mean this, or is it just
>an invention of my anxiety?

I'm not an expert Jungian, but I've found his writings on dreams to be
interesting and helpful in understanding my own dreams. My
interpretation (of Jung--not of your dream), in a nutshell, is that the
unconscious mind revealed in dreams often plays a counterbalancing role
to the active, willful mind of waking life.  This balancing force is
necessary for the continued health and growth of the individual, but
should not be taken as "manifestations of higher wills" or what have
you.

Having said that, it would seem likely that such dreams as yours could
occur whenever one is faced with a difficult choice.  If I were you, I
would write down the pros and cons of each school once more, and try to
understand more deeply why I had chosen school #1, and whether there
were not aspects of school #2 that I was currently *undervaluing* in my
waking life.  After that, I might still choose #1 (or not)--the review
of *why* might be valuable though, and lead to new appreciations--
a wider horizon, so to speak.  The raising to consciousness of new values
is a lifelong work; some might say it is the work of life.

And the disclaimer:  I wouldn't care to defend any of this on
*theoretical* grounds.


Peace, 

Joe N.
Newsgroups: alt.oobe
Subject: Re: Monroe's upcoming book
From: jtulli@eagle.wesleyan.edu
Date: 18 Aug 92 14:10:45 EDT
Organization: Wesleyan University

Monroe has already written a new book, Ultimate Journeys, which hasn't yet been
published.  i hope it comes out soon though because i really really loved Far
Journeys. :)

Jude
From: wdb3926@zeus.tamu.edu
Newsgroups: alt.oobe
Subject: Survey
Date: 18 Aug 1992 06:12:00 GMT
Organization: Texas A&M University, Academic Computing Services
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41

Hello everyone, 
	I've had oobe's off-and-on for about five years.  I must
say that I do not totally understand want is going on during the
oobe's.  I'm interested in your ideas about oobe's and your experiences.
	
About how long do your oobe's last?  (1min, 10min, 30min, or longer)  

When you begin the oobe, do you start in the room?  
				or start in a void?  or where? 

If your oobe's are in the your room,
	about how far do you travel away from your physical body? (in meters)

	do you ever see your physical body?

Do you every see someone else during the oobe?  who?

I have trouble convincing people that oobe's exist.  I seems that
we need some kind of scientific data to prove that they occur.
Does anyone have any ideas about how to prove that oobe's occur
and that they are not halucinations or dreams?

Perhaps if two people could communicate during an oobe....that might
add some evidence....

I've place a random card from a deck of cards face up
on a high surface and tried to see if I could view it during an oobe.
However during oobe's I cannot travel very far and have
difficulty controlling the motions of the "new" body.....so I have
been unsuccessful as of yet.

What do you think this "new" body is?  an astral body?  or soul?  or what?

Thanks for you reply,
Texas

WDB3926@tamvenus.tamu.edu
Organization: University of Maine System
Date: Wednesday, 19 Aug 1992 12:39:48 EDT
From: Even better than the real thing. <IO10781@MAINE.MAINE.EDU>
Newsgroups: alt.oobe
Subject: OBE's in general.

   Ok. So far in this newsgroup I have read articles from people who
claim to have had many (compared to my none (I think)) sometimes hour
long out-of-body experiences. I have always been interested in this
area (or any paranormal discussions). I'm the type of person who always
plays a wizard in role playing games or what have you. :)
   Do you suppose the ability to have such experiences as OBE's is
ingrown or can be learned by someone never to have had one (conciously
anyway)? Could a one Robert Monroe mentioned in the newsgroup as having
written a few books on the subject and having had many OBE's explain it
all much better?
   Let me just put this plainly. I want to get involved here!
   oh, BTW, I vote for alt.paranormal whichever letter that was.


.---------------.-------------------------------------------------------.
|  ___________  |  MST3000 * Monty Python * Ren&Stimpy * IRC * Erasure  |
| (__  ., . ._) | Calvin & Hobbes * //\ *  The Muppets  *  Duran Duran  |
| ___) |\ | |   | Douglas Adams * \X/--\migas * IO10781@Maine.maine.edu |
`---------------'-------------------------------------------------------'
Newsgroups: alt.oobe
From: gen5006@husky1.stmarys.ca
Subject: Re: Survey
Organization: St. Mary's University, Halifax, N.S., Canada
Date: Thu, 20 Aug 1992 19:12:43 GMT

> About how long do your oobe's last?  (1min, 10min, 30min, or longer)  
> 
1min - 1hr 15 mins

> When you begin the oobe, do you start in the room?  
> 				or start in a void?  or where? 
> 
random, sometimes in my room sometimes in a void, sometimes in
different locations

> 	do you ever see your physical body?
Yes, occasionally at least.
> 
> Do you every see someone else during the oobe?  who?
> 
I sometimes see people in my obes, but very rarely do they even
notice me.

> I've place a random card from a deck of cards face up
> on a high surface and tried to see if I could view it during an oobe.
> However during oobe's I cannot travel very far and have
> difficulty controlling the motions of the "new" body.....so I have
> been unsuccessful as of yet.
> 
> What do you think this "new" body is?  an astral body?  or soul?  or what?
> 
Energy?  I've found going near power lines while ob causes a lot of problems.

> Thanks for you reply,
> Texas
> 
> WDB3926@tamvenus.tamu.edu              

Bill.

Newsgroups: alt.oobe
From: KHATCH@130.187.170.178 (kh)
Subject: Re: Getting Back
Organization: Terra Incognita
Date: Mon, 17 Aug 1992 15:00:09 GMT
X-News-Reader: VMS NEWS 1.11

In <1992Aug15.071552.7687@tamsun.tamu.edu> wdb3926@zeus.tamu.edu writes:

> Questions:  Anyone keep a log of their OOBE's?  
> 	    If so, how many OOBE's per month or year do you have?
> 	    Are most of your OOBE's planned or unexpected?

    I've been OBEing for about a year. I do keep a log. Over that period I
have averaged around 1.5 per month.  They almost always begin with
middle-of-the-night paralysis, which I've experienced all my life but only
recently learned to use as an OBE induction tool.  I guess you could say that
they are planned but only so far as they are based on an unexpected
phenomenon. 

    How about you?
Newsgroups: alt.oobe
From: KHATCH@130.187.170.178 (kh)
Subject: Re: Guided Imagery Exercise
Organization: hypergatory
Date: Wed, 12 Aug 1992 15:52:59 GMT
X-News-Reader: VMS NEWS 1.11

In <1992Aug10.184329.28090@wam.umd.edu> angelai@wam.umd.edu writes:

> Essentially, I was telling myself what to do/say for this.  It
> did not produce OBEs in any of the 18 subjects, but it produced
> "pre-OBE" sensations in some:  

  Thanks for the posts Angela.  Two questions:

  1) I was wondering what results you have had from your personal studies and 
exercises. Have you/do you experience OBEs and if so, is it a result of a 
structured program or a natural occurrence?

  2) Did this post get through?
From: rcbi27@muvms3.bitnet (DBRUM)
Newsgroups: alt.paranormal
Subject: Re: Physical Evidence
Date: 13 Aug 92 19:00:12 GMT
Organization: Marshall University

Get one of those little spoons that says, like, "Thanks for stopping
at Orion!" or something, maybe also for good certainty with an outline
of the galaxy on it.

:-))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))
-- 
	"Were his solid black square paintings really,
	as the artist claimed, simply neutral, abstract
	compositions devoid of external references and
	meanings?" ***********************************
From: revpk@cellar.org (Brian 'Rev P-K' Siano)
Newsgroups: alt.paranormal
Subject: Re: UFOs and abductions
Date: 13 Aug 92 03:48:36 GMT
Organization: The Cellar BBS and public access system

jtulli@eagle.wesleyan.edu writes:

> i know this might sound fishy, or like a cop-out, but has anyone out there ev
> considered that physical beings from another home planet, able to transport
> themselves through the emptiness of space to this humble solar system might
> also be able to cover up their tracks regarding the abduction of human beings
> 
> i think this idea deserves serious consideration.
> 
> Jude

        Gee, and I thought it was the leprechauns who were able to do that.


-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Brian "Rev. P-K" Siano                                  revpk@cellar.org
"What? They have BIGGER DICKS?! _BOMB THEM!!!!_"
                        Our Leaders, paraphrased by George Carlin
Newsgroups: alt.paranormal
From: johnm@cajal.uoregon.edu (John Martin)
Subject: Re: Ufo's and abductions
Keywords: n
Organization: Institute of Neuroscience, University of Oregon
Date: Fri, 21 Aug 92 18:50:27 GMT

In article <714291712.0@iphase.FidoNet.Org>, Jason.Dempsey@iphase.UUCP (Jason Dempsey) writes:

>        About all of these people who claim that they were abducted by UFO's or whatever they were, are or were or could these people just be schizophrenics(sp).  It is a very serious disease.  Could that be a possibility?


Well, it could. This suspicion is why people who report that they were abducted
are frequently sent to the shrink. I know that not all are mentally ill, but
I don't know the numbers. I suspect that the percentage of persons that are
mentally ill is probably close to the percentage that occurs in the general
population. Anybody have any numbers on this?

Let's think a sec, though. a LOT of people report abductions (and many more
experience them, but don't say so for fear of bringing the suspicion you have
raised down on them).  It would  be incredible if all or even most of them
them were ill, let alone sharing the same disease!!


-- 
John Martin                                        johnm@cajal.uoregon.edu
Institute of Neuroscience,   University of Oregon,    Eugene, OR,    97402
From: tcederqu@sdcc13.ucsd.edu (Trevor Cederquist)
Newsgroups: alt.paranormal
Subject: Important Topic for People (:
Date: 17 Aug 92 17:32:01 GMT
Organization: University of California, San Diego

FROM the desk of TREVOR C. CEDERQUIST

trevorcederquisttrevorcederquisttrevorcederquisttrrevorcederquisttrevorceder
-===========================================================================

  	I've discovered this "visitor experience" to be common
	to many of my friends.  I've also read of very similar 
	experiences by Ann Shulgin (in _Pihkal_) and by Terence
	McKenna.  I was wondering if others out there have exper-
	ienced this phenomena.

	I dug up this illustrative abstract from Medline:

==============================================================================


Persinger MA.
     Geophysical variables and behavior: LV. Predicting the details of visitor
     experiences and the personality of experients: the temporal lobe factor.
   Perceptual and Motor Skills, 1989 Feb, 68(1):55-65.
     (UI:  89183516)
     Pub type:  Journal Article; Review; Review, Tutorial.

Abstract: The visitor experience, a more intense form of the normal sense of
    presence, emphasizes the deep belief of personal contact with an
    extraterrestrial (or religious) entity. Phenomenological details of visitor
    experiences are expected to reflect the functions of deep temporal lobe
    structures; common details involve cosmic meaningfulness, vestibular
    experiences, flickering, complex visual sensations and alimentary
    references. After intense experiences, interictal-like behaviors similar to
    religious conversions (widening affect, sense of personal, desire to spread
    the word, concern about Man's destiny) emerge. Normal people who are prone
    to these experiences show frequent temporal lobe signs and specific
    personality characteristics that include enhanced creativity,
    suggestibility, mild hypomania, anxiety, and emotional lability. Learning
    histories that encourage the use of right temporal lobe functions for the
    consolidation of memory, such as compartmentalization of beliefs or
    repression due to early sexual abuse, predispose to intense visitor
    experiences. The most frequent precipitants are psychological depression,
    personal (existential) stress and proximal exposure to the focal tectonic
    strain fields that accompany luminous phenomena. Possible
    neuropsychological mechanisms are discussed.
=======================================================================
tcederqu@sdcc13.ucsd.edu
Trevor C. Cederquist
From: szucheng@cheng.Eng.Sun.COM (Szu-Cheng Sun)
Newsgroups: alt.paranormal
Subject: Re: what a joke!
Date: 20 Aug 92 22:00:54 GMT
Reply-To: szucheng@cheng.Eng.Sun.COM
Organization: Sun Microsystems
NNTP-Posting-Host: cheng

>   in giskard@ccwf.cc.utexas.edu of 20 Aug 92 19:31:10 GMT
>
>   3)  There are no such things as ghosts.  I think this was proven several 
>       times when a crew of 'parapsychologists' attempted to film a poltergeist
>       or 'spirit' and of course never didn't.  If they really existed, wouldn't
>      be likely that most people would have some sort of experience and beyond
     that, some sort of documentation?


Once upon a time, there was a space craft landing at desert sahara.  A lot of
instruments were set up to search for human beings.  After 3 weeks of extensive
search, no human being was found.  Then the space craft left with one conclusion
- there was NO human being on the earth.
From: rutkows@ccu.umanitoba.ca (Chris Rutkowski)
Newsgroups: alt.paranormal
Subject: Re: Important Topic for People (:
Date: 19 Aug 92 16:39:29 GMT
Organization: University of Manitoba, Winnipeg, Canada

In <36922@sdcc12.ucsd.edu> tcederqu@sdcc13.ucsd.edu (Trevor Cederquist) writes:

>  	I've discovered this "visitor experience" to be common
>	to many of my friends.  I've also read of very similar 
>	experiences by Ann Shulgin (in _Pihkal_) and by Terence
>	McKenna.  I was wondering if others out there have exper-
>	ienced this phenomena.

>	I dug up this illustrative abstract from Medline:

>Persinger MA.
>     Geophysical variables and behavior: LV. Predicting the details of visitor
>     experiences and the personality of experients: the temporal lobe factor.
>   Perceptual and Motor Skills, 1989 Feb, 68(1):55-65.
>     (UI:  89183516)
>     Pub type:  Journal Article; Review; Review, Tutorial.

It's interesting, but there's one slight problem.

Persinger's TST theory has been shown to be full of holes.

And I'm not even a debunker!

Persinger has published over 75 articles about his geophysical theory
of UFOs, ghosts, and ESP.  Basically, energy released by seismic
activity deep underground affects peoples' temporal lobes and makes
them think they have had unusual experiences.  Unfortunately,
Persinger's data and procedures are badly flawed.  In some cases, the
correlations between events (UFOs, ESP effects, ghosts, etc.) and
sesimic activity were only found after allowing "lag" or "lead" times
of six months to a year between the two, and allowing distances
separating the events and the seismic activity of as much as 600 miles!
That means that a ghost observed in Texas in 1992 could be linked
statistically to a minor tremor (barely felt in some cases) two or
three states away, several months earlier.

Sound plausible?  No, most geophysicists don't think so, either.  

If you're interested, and you have MEDLINE, look up my two published
criticisms about Persinger's work, also published in P & MS.

There MAY be some relation between natural Earth energy and paranormal
phenomena, but Persinger's research certainly doesn't bear it out.


-- 
Chris Rutkowski - rutkows@ccu.umanitoba.ca
Royal Astronomical Society of Canada
University of Manitoba - Winnipeg, Canada
From: giskard@ccwf.cc.utexas.edu (Daneel Olivaw)
Newsgroups: alt.paranormal
Subject: what a joke!
Date: 20 Aug 92 19:31:10 GMT


   There are no such things as ghosts, spirits, flying saucers, OBE's,
close encounters of the third kind, mind power, psychic healing or any
other trash that is commonly talked about in this group.  I say this 
because you are all wasting your time talking about such nonsense.  But,
now I have some time to waste, so I would like to hear from some of you
about the following:

1)  How come I can read my horoscope in one paper and it will be totally
    contradictive (or opposite) in another paper?  Also, they are never
    true.

2)  OBE's are just a dream and certain people make them out to be more 
    than that.  IT is all in the head, the idea of actually leaving your
    body and often looking back at your lifeless lump of skin is so 
    ludicrous that one who claims this, must have definite mental problems.

3)  There are no such things as ghosts.  I think this was proven several 
    times when a crew of 'parapsychologists' attempted to film a poltergeist
    or 'spirit' and of course never didn't.  If they really existed, wouldn't
    be likely that most people would have some sort of experience and beyond
    that, some sort of documentation?

4)  psychics are idiots, and some of them are lucky

5)  As far as life after death--- although I dont believe in 
    it.  It is fairly obvious that the people who almost died and had some
    kind of experience, were hallucinating.  There is a common notion that
    when you die you experience a warm, gentle, solitude feeling and every
    thing is white.  THis occurs due to last second brain activity that
    accesses this notion which is stored in memory.


I might not have proof for the things that I just said, but there is no
proof for any of the stuff mentioned in this group.

feel free to comment

Brandon

Xref: sparky alt.paranormal:2116 alt.consciousness:403