From: nyikos@math.scarolina.edu (Peter Nyikos)
Subject: Re: I had an abortion two days ago
Organization: USC  Department of Computer Science
Date: 14 Oct 92 21:06:17 GMT

In <1992Oct12.110051.15838@hemlock.cray.com> mon@cray.com (Muriel Nelson) writes:

>In article <1992Oct10.054059.10736@pasteur.Berkeley.EDU> c164-ad@po.berkeley.edu (Martin Guerrero) writes:
>>In article <1992Oct9.170338.25387@hemlock.cray.com> mon@cray.com (Muriel Nelson) writes:
>>>In article <1992Oct9.085353.24603@pasteur.Berkeley.EDU> c164-ad@po.berkeley.edu (Martin Guerrero) writes:
>>>
>>>>Also, I mentioned several times that I do recognize the plight of the women.
>>>>People may not trust me in saying that, but that is understandable.  
>>>
>>>Very.  I don't think anything else you have said evidences
>>>any compassion or concern for women.
>>>
>>Why?  There is nothing wrong with wanting BOTH the mother and the unborn
>>child to live.
>>
>Some of these women will die, Martin.  Your response to 
>this sad fact seems to indicate that you think it's OK
>for them to die, since they want to take an action of 
>which Martin disapproves.

The number of deaths due to abortion has next to nothing to do
with whether abortion is legal or not.  Are you not aware of
the mortality statistics over the years?  The big drops came with
the introduction of antibiotics and of safer abortion techniques.

>>I remember you mentioning that I compared women to a location.  
>>
>>Now look at how you invite a comparison between an unborn child and a 
>>rapist.
>>
>The invasiveness of an orgnism growing inside when 
>a woman doesn't want it there, and of the incredible
>violence of birth, is not unlike rape.

So is the incredible violence of abortion.  No penis penetrates
as deeply nor as savagely into the woman as a suction curette
or any of the other D& whatever devices.
>>Is the only way I can "prove" my compassion for women is to become pro-choice
>>and allow abortions to take place?  I don't think so.  

>This depends on what you mean by 'prove'.  It would
>probably take more than a conversion to the pro-choice
>perspective to convince me that you have real compassion
>for women right now, son.

Just as I thought.  Muriel finds being pro-choice necessary, but
not sufficient.

>>                                                         Pro-lifers are
>>not misogynist.  I don't see how Feminist pro-lifers and women pro-lifers
>>can hate themselves and show no compassion for themselves and their sisters.
>>Mother Teresa is pro-life.  I suppose she is a misogynist too.

>How much time does Mother Teresa spend on pushing
>for anti-abortion legislation, compared to the time
>she spends trying to alleviate the suffering of born
>persons, Martin?  "Go, and do thou likewise."

And how much have you done to alleviate that suffering, Muriel?
How much has Adrienne?  You have been remarkably tight-lipped about
this, or do you believe that having been a pro-choicer all one's 
life IS sufficient for being a compassionate person?

>>If I were a woman, would you claim the same things about me?

>It is a known fact that our resident female pro-choicer
					     ^^^^^^^^^^^
>has expressed disdain for other women on several occaisions.

The above has my vote for "Freudian slip of the year."

Peter Nyikos

Newsgroups: talk.abortion