HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: leem@jpl-devvax.Jpl.Nasa.Gov (Lee Mellinger)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: Ontos
Date: 16 Nov 92 16:46:43 GMT
Organization: Jet Propulsion Laboratory (NASA)

In article <1992Nov13.191621.16562@ultb.isc.rit.edu> mxb1517@ultb.isc.rit.edu (M.X. Blair) writes:
:In article <9211121731.AA03799@batcomfs.Eng.Sun.COM> mxb1517@ultb.isc.rit.edu writes: (M.X. Blair) writes:
:#
:#    Ontos, supposedly Greek for "The Thing", was supposed to be
:#    a highly mobile, lightly armoured, and fast vehicle to do
:#    shoot 'n scoop types of operations.  It was a small tracked
:#    vehicle which had not 4, but 6 recoilless rifles.  The crew
:
:		Better check your model - It's four, unless there's a variant
:I haven't heard of.  Got a picture of it in a book of mine.
:
:                                         - Mike

I have never personally seen the Ontos, however I have seen pictures 
this beast and the ones I saw had six recoiless rifles on them.

Lee

"Mit Pulver und Blei, die Gedanken sind frei."

|Lee F. Mellinger                 Caltech/Jet Propulsion Laboratory - NASA
|4800 Oak Grove Drive, Pasadena, CA 91109 818/354-1163  FTS 792-1163     
|leem@jpl-devvax.JPL.NASA.GOV
From: romero@convex.com (Paco Romero)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Spanish gun request
Date: 16 Nov 92 23:10:11 GMT
Article-I.D.: news.1992Nov16.212728.21023
Organization: Engineering, CONVEX Computer Corp., Richardson, Tx., USA

I'm posting this for a friend.  I'd appreciate responses by email.
Thanks so much
-paco
romero@convex.com

----
My friend owns a Spanish-made 9 mm PARABELLUM M-87, manufactured by
LLAMA, GABILONDO & Cia, S.A. in Vitoria (Spain).  He's having a hard time
getting a new magazine for this handgun. The part number is J-725 (cargador
in Spanish), and is not available thru regular dealers.  Does anybody 
have any information about this company, their phone number in Spain, or
a way to obtain this part?  Any info would be appreciated.
From: bobd@marune.acs.ohio-state.edu (Bob DeBula)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: 7.62 Mauser vs 7.62 Tokarev & the CZ-52
Date: 23 Nov 92 14:25:02 GMT
Organization: The Ohio State University

In article <1992Nov20.202541.19606@michael.apple.com> ems@michael.apple.com (E. Michael Smith) writes:
#
#Hmmm...  And how do they all relate to the small Lugar round?  Was it
#a 7.62 mm also?  That is, is the '.30 cal' Lugar in any way the same
#as the 7.62 mm Mauser?
#

.30 Luger is in no way, shape, or form the same cartridge as the
.30 Mauser or Tokerov. I'm pretty sure .30 Luger is a shorter round and 
I believe it is loaded to lower pressures.
-- 
==========================================================================
              Disclaimer: These are my views, not the U's

        "If it's in the paper it must be true!" --- D. Doright
From: miles@ms.uky.edu (Stephen D. Grant)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: Need Accessories for Galil AR .223
Date: 19 Nov 92 15:07:25 GMT
Organization: University of Kentucky, USA. -5 GMT

try Action Arms in NJ (I think).
they are the Galil importer and have scope mounts mags, slings, cases,
etc available for your rifle.
they are not cheap either,, i just got a scope mount and a few extra
mags for a .308 AR.
From: m@crito.stanford.edu (M Carling)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: explosives question
Date: 19 Nov 92 15:09:33 GMT
Organization: DSO, Stanford University

In article <--fqrs+@dixie.com> jgd@dixie.com (John De Armond) writes:
# Some figures for
# the destruction of various types of construction:
# 
# Frame house							0.5-1 psi
# Typical commercial construction		3 psi
# Reenforced concrete construction	>5 psi.
# 

The silos the Soviets built for the SS-18s are estimated to be capable of  
withstanding blast overpressures up to 8000 psi.

M Carling
The Hoover Institution
From: fist@iscp.Bellcore.COM (Richard Pierson)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: Hang Fires
Date: 20 Nov 92 13:47:13 GMT
Organization: Bell Communications Research (Bellcore)

I never had a problem with Hang Fires and I use a Lee hand
primer tool, I set mine so that it just flattens the primer
and seats it flush with the back of the case. The current
batches of .44  I'm loading are using primers I've had for
over 10 years (cci 350 and cci 300) along with the powder
of the same age and have not had a problem with the last
500 rounds. I clean my case after resizing.decapping then
wash them in case cleaner, after drying I clean the primer
pockets with a pocket brush and then go after them with
000 steel wool both inside and out so they look like new
[Does a vibrator do as good a job cleaning them as I can
do using steel wool-go ahead-give me an excuse]. :-)

-- 
##########################################################
There are only two types of ships in the NAVY; SUBMARINES 
                 and TARGETS !!!
#1/XS1100LH	#2/10/10/92
Richard Pierson E06584 vnet: [908] 699-6063
Internet: fist@iscp.bellcore.com,|| UUNET:uunet!bcr!fist  
#include <std.disclaimer> My opinions are my own!!!
I Don't shop in malls, I BUY my jeans, jackets and ammo
in the same store.
From: psaarela@tne01.tele.nokia.fi
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: TC flintlock
Date: 19 Nov 92 15:15:57 GMT
Organization: Nokia Telecommunications.

In article <92322.105755JLW154@psuvm.psu.edu>, JLW154@PSUVM.PSU.EDU writes:
# 
#      I am thinking about buying a Thompson Contender Hawken muzzleloader.  Does
#  anyone have one of these, do they shoot well, what type of ball(maxi,round,etc
# ..) how many grains of powder.  oh it is a 50 caliber, any comments would be gre
# atly appreciated.

        I have Armi San Marco Hawken cal. 50 percussion muzzleloader 
        which I've built up myself. 
        I've shot round .495 balls with 48 grains of black powder. 
        No results yet because I haven't had time to test the rifle seriously.

        Notice that these are the amounts I use.
        If your rifle decides to explode with these amounts, don't accuse me.

# Jay Wade
# 

        Petri Saarela
From: minh@inst-sun1.jpl.nasa.gov (Minh Lang)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Any silhouette match in North Calif?
Date: 19 Nov 92 15:13:55 GMT
Organization: Jet Propulsion Laboratory

Hi, I would appreciate any info  (date/time) on
silhouette matches (IHMSA or NRA) during
Nov 26-29 in the Northern California
area (Santa Clara - San Jose - San Francisco
- Oakland etc...). Also, any info (addresses/phones)
on indoor/outdoor shooting ranges/GUN-R-US shops in the above
areas are appreciated.
Thank you very much in advance. 

  == Minh ==
From: callison@essex.ecn.uoknor.edu (James P. Callison)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: Carrying Weapons Laws - Oklahoma, Arkansas, Missouri
Date: 21 Nov 92 13:19:38 GMT
Organization: Engineering Computer Network, University of Oklahoma, Norman, OK, USA

In article <1992Nov19.222957.13567@chpc.org> rboudrie@chpc.org (Rob Boudrie) writes:
##
##The state regs are irrelevant; Federal law clearly states that you
##can transport your firearms, as long as they are unloaded and either
##in a locked case or in a compartment not accessible from the
##passenger compartment, and as long as you can legally possess them
##at your points of origination and destination. (See the aforementioned
##reference for the actual text of the law.)
#
#Except in Illinois where the state supreme court has ruled that the
#federal law protects the driver from CRIMINAL prosecution, but that the
#police are not obligated to return lawfully stowed in transit guns they
#confiscate.

That leaves the state of Illinois wide open for Federal lawsuits...
Federal law takes precedence over state law, and, since Federal law
was being obeyed, there were no grounds for seizure. If they seized it
and didn't pay for it, they're in violation big time; anything the 
government seizes must be paid for with "just compensation" according
to the Bill of Rights (extended to include the States by Ammendment 14).

Anyone want to volunteer to be a test case? ;-)

					James

James P. Callison       Microcomputer Coordinator        OU Law Library 
Callison@aardvark.ucs.uoknor.edu   /\    Callison@uokmax.ecn.uoknor.edu
	constellation!biglaw!callison@mailhost.ecn.uoknor.edu
DISCLAIMER: I'm not an engineer, but I play one at work...
	I feel lucky, I feel lucky yeah
	Hey Dwight, Hey Lyle, boys, you don't have to fight,
	Hot dog, I feel lucky tonight
			--Mary-Chapin Carpenter, "I Feel Lucky"
From: webdw@mvutd.att.com (Bruce D Woods)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: American Rifleman = Consumer Reports?
Date: 20 Nov 92 22:32:07 GMT
Organization: AT&T

#
#About 1967, Consumer Reports reviewed varmint rifles -- and top-rated
#the Ruger Number 1.  I haven't noticed anything on firearms since then.

Don't hold your breath.  CR has become a captive of the Ralph Nader -
granola - tree hugger - socialized medicine - socially "responsible"
crowd.  If there is any doubt please review the biographies of those
who are on (or run for) the Consumer's Union board of directors; it's
quite enlightening.  Yes sir, Mr. Excellent Moderator, follow-up should
immediately be dispatched to another newsgroup!  :-)
From: loki@acca.nmsu.edu
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: North American .22 Micro Revolver for sale
Date: 17 Nov 92 18:32:10 GMT


	North American Arms .22 LR Micro Revolver, Stainless, with
	'holstergrip'.  This is the newer model with the firing pin
	rest notches between cylinders.  5 shot, test fired by the dealer,
	includes box, manual, small pistol rug, and the ingenious
	'holstergrip', which is a plastic grip that locks in place 
	as an extended grip, or can be rotated to cover the barrel,
	hammer, and trigger.  Holstergrip also has a belt clip. 
	$125 + shipping negotiable.

	contact me via email at loki@acca.nmsu.edu if you're interested.

	--Dan
From: cramer@optilink.com (Clayton Cramer)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: Mauser Info Request
Date: 24 Nov 92 01:50:58 GMT
Organization: Optilink Corporation, Petaluma, CA


In article <168A611A57.HODGSONT@QUCDN.QueensU.CA>, HODGSONT@QUCDN.QueensU.CA (Jake Hodgson) writes:
#     The other is an oddball. It's the Mauser Model FR8 'Special
# purpose rifle'.  The FR8 is a Spanish conversion to 7.62x51 (.308Win)
# based on a K96 Large Ring receiver.  It's fitted with a very short
# bbl for a Mauser (44.7cm... 18.5in)  and I wonder if it was intended
# to be a paratroop/tanker's rifle.
#  
# Jake Hodgson____________________________________________________________

There have been recurring claims that these conversions aren't
strong enough to handle available surplus 7.62x51 ammo.  The
U.S. importers say that's nonsense.  A little caution sounds
worthwhile.
-- 
Clayton E. Cramer {uunet,pyramid}!optilink!cramer  My opinions, all mine!
We could say that Congress spends money like drunken sailors.  But that would
be unfair -- to the sailors.  They, at least, are spending their own money.
From: dnewcomb@whale.st.usm.edu (Donald R. Newcomb)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: AR15 Assembly / NESARD Kits
Date: 17 Nov 92 18:32:49 GMT
Organization: University of Southern Mississippi

In article <9211131850.AA152176@apix.psu.edu> CLF@ECLX.PSU.EDU (Christopher L Frame) writes:
#	I was reading my copy of Duncan Long's "The AR15/M16 A Practical Guide"
#and came across a confusing series of statements about headspace gauges and
#their proper use.  I quote from pg 80:
 [Stuff deleted]
#
#	"Whenever possible, buy only a rifle or barrel that accepts the go and
#field gauge but not the no-go gauge."
#
Christopher,
  My understanding would tell me that the above sentence is a non-sequitur
and may be a typo. A new rifle should accept (bolt closes on) a "go" gauge.
A used rifle may accept a "no-go" gauge. Neither should accept a "field"
gauge. The gauge lengths increase from "go" -> "no-go" -> "field". If you
are going shopping and can only take one gauge, make it the "field".
-- 

Donald R. Newcomb                * The one who dies with the most toys
dnewcomb@whale.st.usm.edu        * has accomplished nothing beyond
newcomb@usmcp6.bitnet            * enslaving himself to his possessions.
From: grant@bluemoon.use.com (Grant DeLorean)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: T/C pistol iron sight question...
Date: 20 Nov 92 22:33:23 GMT
Organization: Blue Moon

jgd@dixie.com (John De Armond) writes:

#minh@inst-sun1.jpl.nasa.gov (Minh Lang) writes:

#No one else jumped in so I'll give it a shot.

##Hi, I have a question that I would appreciate
##any help. I have a T/C 10" 44 magnum with
##a factory iron sight. Using an electronic
##caliper, I measured the rear sight's height
##at different clicks and this is what I got:
##- with the rear sight all the way down, it's
##   2.020 inches.
##- with 5 clicks up, 2.045"
##- with 10 clicks up, 2.063"
##- with 15 clicks up, 2.084"
##- with 20 clicks up, 2.108"
##- with 25 clicks up, 2.128"
##The click adjustments are not consistent. I am wondering
##is this a common problem wihth the factory iron sight?

#Yep.  That's why many of us production class Silhouette shooters lap the
#clicker on the sight and then keep a little 3X5 card with sight 
#settings on it.  The big concern is repeatability, something the T/C
#sight does quite well, particularly after being lapped.

 For what it is worth, doing that takes the gun out of IHMSA production
class. The only mods allowed on a production gun are commonly available
aftermarket stocks (grips) and a trigger job. Sights must be as
manufactured and furnished by the factory.

-- 
\   Grant DeLorean  - IHMSA & NRA Life Member -  (grant@bluemoon.use.com)   /

        Good leaders being scarce, following yourself is allowed.
From: mws20@ccc.amdahl.com (Mark Sechrest)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Shotgun News
Date: 24 Nov 92 01:50:46 GMT
Organization: Amdahl Corporation, Sunnyvale CA


Sorry I didn't save the letter, but, someone was asking about how to
acquire issues of Shotgun News. My roommate subscribes, so here is the
info:

Shotgun News
P.O. Box 669
Hastings, NE 68902

Or you can call 1-800-345-3923. A one year subscription is only $20.
No I am not in any way affiliated with them, just passing along the info.

Mark
From: erudnick@pica.army.mil (FSAC-SID)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: Info. on CZ 9mm pistol
Date: 24 Nov 92 01:50:28 GMT


The CZ 99 is NOT made by Ceskoslovenska Zbrojovka, the Czechoslovakian
arms maker. It is made by Crvena Zastava (Red Star) in (ex?) Yugoslavia.
Evidently the importer felt the opportunity to cash in on CZ's name
and fame (not that the Yugo pistol is bad; just another entry in a 
cluttered market). I had thought they changed the name to Z9 to avoid
infringing on the real CZ's trademark, with a .40 version called Z40.


Ed Rudnicki     erudnick@pica.army.mil     All disclaimers apply
Protect the Second Amendment - boycott Ruger products
Geordi: "...it's like the laws of physics went right out the
window." Q: "And why shouldn't they? They're so inconvenient."
From: kdlin@advtech.uswest.com (David Lin)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Concealed Holster
Date: 16 Nov 92 16:45:57 GMT
Article-I.D.: cherokee.199211160649.AA23305
Organization: U S WEST Advanced Technologies

A friend of a friend is thinking to get the Shadow II Ultra Concealment
Holster. ;) Its new name is LCS II Ultra Concealment Holster for some
reason that I don't know.

I'm wondering if anyone has one or has read a review about it. I'd like it
hear some comments. 

Thanks.

David

-- 
 K. David Lin, Ph.D.              | E-mail: kdlin@advtech.uswest.com  
 Communication Services Research  | Defend your life with style! -- Beretta
 U S WEST Advanced Technologies   | Disclaimer: Only personal opinions
From: bellas@soldev.tti.com (Pete Bellas)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: Bad tactical position ( was Psychology in Defense)
Date: 17 Nov 92 18:31:58 GMT
Organization: Transaction Technology, Inc.

In article <Bxoto5.1Cv@scylax.uucp>, scylax!tiglath@uunet.UU.NET writes:

# OK,  Someone tell me.  I scream at the perp "ON THE FLOOR" 
# He says "fxxx you" ,  I yell "DO IT NOW!"  He calls me "you homo." 
# He does not attack me, but he doesn't obey.  Stalemate.  Do I shoot 
# him or not?  Any takers?

Or, he turns and starts walking away (definately no longer a threat and
now only showing you his back as a target).

Optionally he can say to you (over his shoulder), "I'll be back to take
care of you another day...".

			-Pete-



* Pete Bellas                   "Cogito ergo spud"                         *
* Citicorp/TTI                       I think therefore I yam.              *
* Santa Monica, CA                                                         *
* bellas@gamma.tti.com                                                     *
From: chrisb@wang.com (Chris Bennet)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: .45 caliber handguns
Date: 20 Nov 92 22:33:07 GMT
Organization: Wang Labs, Lowell MA, USA

kdlin@advtech.uswest.com (David Lin) writes:

#In article <1992Nov17.023032.19198@igor.tamri.com> donb@igor.tamri.com (Don Baldwin) writes:
##....
##Anyway, after all that rambling, here is the question I would like to
##ask:
##    Is it possible for me to get an accurate 1911 Colt/clone for less
##    than the price of a Gold Cup (about $800) and STILL have it be a
##    versatile combat handgun?
##
##If the answer is NO, I will have to consider my next two choices (Sig P220
##or Glock 21 (both excellent guns but I LIKE the Colt) more seriously OR save
##a long time and get the Gold Cup.

#Let me take a shot again. :)

#I would ask myself what do I need this gun for. Assuming that I want a 45,
#*I* would get a SIG P220 for defense purpose, and get a basic 1911 clone
#and have lots of work done for target shooting purpose.

#My understanding/experience is that a NIB 1911 *may* need some work done to be
#reliable/accurate. A Sig P220, on the other hand, is *usually* very good out 
#of box. *I* feel a Sig P220 has less recoil than a 1911 in its stock form,
#which can be a big plus in rapid fire. However, an all-out 1911 should be
#faster in target shooting; otherwise, those top IPSC shooters won't use
#them.

#The bottom line is that you may want to determine what this 45 is needed
#for. Just my .02.

I tend to agree.  However...Colt has improved the design of the standard
1911 for '92.  They are still relatively rare, but the new "Enhanced" models
as they are called would be worth a serious look.  I've have yet to see
one, but the improvements [beveled magazine well, bigger beaver-
tail, high visibility sights, etc] seem substantial.  I would sell my
Gold Cup to get one.  I always thought it was kind of stupid that the
1911 didn't come with a beveled magazine well and good sights - things
the Sig 220 has already of course.

 happy shooting,
  Chris

P.S. I'm serious, anybody want to buy a Gold Cup in nice shape ?


Xref: sparky rec.guns:16137 talk.politics.guns:24217
From: holger@vmars.tuwien.ac.at (Holger Reusch (Dipl. Gerhard + Joe))
Newsgroups: rec.guns,talk.politics.guns
Subject: International Gun Laws - Informational Posting
Date: 17 Nov 92 13:26:42 GMT
Followup-To: rec.guns
Organization: Technical University Vienna, Dept. for Realtime Systems, AUSTRIA

This is a reminder about an FTP archive with articles  describing
the   gun   legislation   of  various countries.  I would like to
thank all the authors for their contributions.

The articles are available via anonymous FTP from out  local  FTP
site  ftp.vmars.tuwien.ac.at  (128.130.39.16)  in  the  directory
/pub/misc/guns/gunlaw.  The README file there contains additional
information.

The gun laws of the following countries have  been  described  so
far   ('->'  marks  signify  information that is new,  changed or
extended since my last post, that is, usually, since last week):

	Australia
	Austria
	Finland
	Germany
	The Netherlands
	Switzerland
	United Kingdom
    ->	USA  (Yeah!  I have been persuaded.)

If you are versed in the gun laws of any country but  these  men-
tioned above (or if you find some important points not covered in
the  overviews)  please  send  me  mail  (I  can  be  reached  as
holger@vmars.tuwien.ac.at).   Thanks in advance for your coopera-
tion.

Please contact me BY MAIL.  I am not able to monitor Usenet  news
on a regular basis.  Some articles might get purged before I read
them.

Note: From now on, I *WILL* cover US gun laws.  Just  don't  send
me  the  special  regulations of each county, please.  Let's keep
this on a state-or-above level.

-- 
| Holger Reusch                             |
| Technical University of Vienna, Austria <-+--- No kangaroos here,
| Dept. for Real-Time Systems               |    sorry!
| holger@vmars.tuwien.ac.at                 |
From: viking@iastate.edu (Dan Sorenson)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: Right-handed/left-eyed: how to retrain eyes?
Date: 17 Nov 92 13:15:57 GMT
Organization: Iowa State University, Ames IA

basiji@stein.u.washington.edu (David Basiji) writes:

#I am right handed but left-eye dominant.

#I am
#putting a patch over my left eye for short periods of time (one hour)
#once or twice each day but have only been doing this for a few days.

#Has anyone done this successfully?  Am I going about it wrong? Any tips?

	We went over this a couple months ago, at most, but the base
concensus was to see an optometrist and talk to him; I found that looking
through a screen and focusing on the screen, yard, screen, etc... tended
to help me.  Others have indicated that there may be problems that this
will not help and may, in fact, hurt your vision.  Only an optometrist will
be able to provide the best advice.

< Dan Sorenson, DoD #1066 z1dan@exnet.iastate.edu viking@iastate.edu >
<  ISU only censors what I read, not what I say.  Don't blame them.  >
<  "This isn't an answer, it's a pagan dance around a midnight fire  >
<   written in intellectual runes." -- Rich Young                    >
From: dstine@cisco.com (David Stine)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: 45 ACP, 9mm
Date: 17 Nov 92 18:30:53 GMT
Organization: foobar

In article <m5mauB1w164w@upchrch.UUCP> upchrch!joel@peora.sdc.ccur.com (Joel Upchurch  ) writes:
#
#While I have reservations about the 10mm as a pistol ammo, I suspect
#that it might find a place as carbine and submachine gun ammo. It
#should achieve quite respectable energies when fired out of a carbine
#barrel. I wouldn't be surprised, based on the results I've read with
#.357 Magnum fired out of a carbine, if the energies for the 155 grain
#bullet weren't up in the 30-30 range. There would be obvious advantages
#to getting assault rifle like performance out of a submachine gun.
#

ya, know, this sets me to thinking: the 10 would seem (at first blush) to be
about the right size for a gas-operated semi carbine, say something like an
updated M1 Carbine. A full-house 10 or (ha!) a +P 10 tends to eat handguns up,
but where you could devote some more beef to the receiver and a gas machanism,
I would think that it might be a decent round for a brush-busting deer
carbine.

any other thoughts? am I up too late?

dsa
From: glock@chip.cba.ufl.edu (Joe Granto)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: 10mm subsonic full metal jacket
Date: 20 Nov 92 22:32:50 GMT
Organization: College of Business, University of Florida

To all you 10mm fans:

Who makes 10mm subsonic full/total metal jacket rounds?

Which is the "preferred" manufacturer?






Joe

****************************************************************
**                 GLOCK@chip.cba.ufl.edu                     **
**                                                            **
**     "When the going gets tough, the tough get a GLOCK."    **
****************************************************************