From: mjbrown@lonestar.utsa.edu (Marc J. Brown)
Subject: Re: Phenomena egos??
Organization: University of Texas at San Antonio
Date: Sun, 8 Nov 1992 05:02:34 GMT

In article <1dhp99INNqn5@gap.caltech.edu> keith@cco.caltech.edu (Keith Allan Schneider) writes:

>Well, commercial people write applications and games and stuff that can
>be easily ported to other machines.  Remember that the Amiga is not the
>most prolific machine in the world.  In the stores here in the US, one
>cannot even purchase Amiga software (of course, there are a few Amiga
>shops, but they are few and far between).

That's the problem with those computers (IBM, at least)... there are such
severe incompatibilities (thanks to the fact that all IBMs are kludges),
people MUST still work around them to get the job done... that on top
of their overall poor coding makes it to where you NEED your 486 with
umpteen-megs of ram and hd-space to get something going.  This is a trend
I'm happy to see that Amiga has avoided as best as possible.

>Todays
>machines are fast enough (unless you're still using a 68000) to handle
>a little code sloppiness.  Portability is more important, now.

The Amiga has probably the best downward-compatibility of any computer...
so I see little need for code-sloppiness.  Eurodemos are an extreme case;
they are like CDs that you can collect for free, if you have the right
CD-player.

>Well, this is not surprising, seeing as how you go around screaming that
>American [insert various things here] suck, etc.  I mean, if someone
>were trying to degrade me, I sure as hell wouldn't want to be a member
>of their little group.

Some people may have an attitude problem, but I say most people are "human"
enough to not act in this manner :).

>Well, this can be debated in .advocacy.  The Amiga was surely the best
>when it was introduced, but now,...

It's still the best, but lacks software... eh, gimme my emulator :).

>Unix machine?  That's right, there's not much point.  Everything is
>written in C, to be portable, and is compiled on the appropriate machine.

Yeah.  Therefore, demos are less practical for these machines.  You may
argue that they're useless wastes of time... but that, obviously, is
the dead-end argument that "a good thing is really a bad thing."

>the configuration is the same.  But alas, you demos will soon become
>a thing of the past.

Downward-compatibility can keep that from happening...

>Each time the hardware upgrades, you have to
>write entire new demos.

Yes.  Of course, by then your demo is also outgraded in quality, as surely
many demos have come out that are far better.  And even if this is not the
case, you CAN always just modify (patch) your demo to work on all formats
(something I rarely see, because the demos are already just too old.)

>going to be programming your A500?  I mean, not that the A500 is a bad
>machine, but in today's market, it just isn't top-of-the-line, frankly.

No, that's the A1200 (IMHO, "top-of-the-line" only applies to what is
generally affordable).

>Once you realize that portability and not size and speed optimization
>is the emphasis, you will see why no one really bothers to write
>demos anymore.

I think you've taken on a corrupt viewpoint of the situation.  People do
write demos.  It is a very fun hobby, and the results are distributable,
and there can even be very positive results of your efforts.  What if I
said "Jeez... CDs sure are a waste of time... can't play 'em on my LD-
player." ...?

>Again, what is the use writing such a thing (other
>than to practice your machine code on a single machine) when it will
>be useless in but a few years?

I have listed some reasons already..lesse... Hobby, fun, recognition,
friendship, possible financially-related results, experience...

>But don't come screaming in here when you find that your demos aren't
>compatible with the new chip set or another new hardware feature.

Actually, the only people who scream are the ones who don't have an A500
with Fatter Agnus :).

>I don't mean to sound harsh here, but I think demos are a thing of the
>past.  They are behind the times.

Many people... even IBM-owners (who are getting their first taste of
demos), would strongly disagree.  Demos keep up with the times, if
anything.

>because the clever people here in the US seem to be doing more
>productive and useful programming.

With personal interest specifically in mind.  That's not an attitude I'd
like associated with me, personally :).  BTW, do you think I'm European?
Sounds like it...

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