HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: eric@milton.u.washington.edu (Eric Hirst)
Newsgroups: rec.climbing
Subject: Re: poor belays
Date: 19 Aug 92 23:46:27 GMT
Organization: University of Washington

Another observation related to iffy pro and belays (and a revelation which
I'm sure is my own and uniquely original).  On traditional granite
routes, belays are often set in broken sections, spots which may contain
the loosest blocks on the route.  Just remember -- If you think you might be
able to budge it with a crowbar, you might also be able to pry it off with
a good load on a nut or cam.  Contrary to popular belief, there are still
plenty of refrigerator-sized blocks just itching to join their comrades in the
talus below.

Eric Hirst
eric@milton.u.washington.edu
Newsgroups: rec.climbing
From: AS.MSW@forsythe.stanford.edu (Marc Whitney)
Subject: Re: unexpected hazards of climbing
Organization: Stanford University, California, USA
Distribution: usa
Date: Thu, 20 Aug 1992 22:05:31 GMT

In article <1992Aug20.161131.27888@newshost.lanl.gov>,
mwj@beta.lanl.gov (William Johnson) writes:
>In article <80717@bcsaic.boeing.com> kew@bcsaic.boeing.com (Keith Williamson) writes:
>>
>>I had an interesting experience this weekend, involving a hazard of
>>climbing that I had never thought of before :-).
>[amusing story of an encounter with a hungry mountain goat deleted]
>
>I gather from a ranger met in the Pecos (we shared a good laugh about the sheep
>incident) that salt deficiency is the main drawback of the high-country ecology
>as far as herbivores are concerned; there is plenty of green and growing stuff
>for them to munch on, and once you get away from the trailheads full of
>hunters, there's nothing left to eat *them* any more.  He indicated that the
>lack of salt was causing observable health problems with the sheep, although
>it obviously wasn't stopping them from reproducing. :-)  They were thinking
>about setting out salt blocks in remote areas, not so much for the good of the
>sheep as to motivate them to look for their salt in places other than
>campsites and frying pans.  This has its own environmental objections, though,
>and I don't think they've done it yet.
>
A valid question would be:  So what do these animals do for salt in
an environment that has never had a human impact?  Isn't putting out
salt blocks a little like putting out bales of hay to help the the
poor critters through the winter?
Organization: Penn State University
Date: Fri, 14 Aug 1992 18:08:32 EDT
From: jim bowers <FQV@psuvm.psu.edu>
Newsgroups: rec.climbing
Subject: Re: More info on Climbing Wall book and Petrogrips
 <1992Aug14.210138.6900@pony.Ingres.COM>

In article <1992Aug14.210138.6900@pony.Ingres.COM>, rogerl@Ingres.COM (Roger
Leuthner) says:
>
>In article <92227.124953FQV@psuvm.psu.edu> FQV@psuvm.psu.edu (jim bowers)
>writes:
>>MODULAR HOLDS
>
>Next time you're outside, you might try picking up a few rocks that have
>reasonably flat backs.  Then buy yourself some of the epoxy that road
>markers are glued down with.  Combine two (add wall) and you've got just
>about the most realistic, safe, cheap practice-climbing setup around.  I
>don't do a lot of fake wall action, but i've climbed what I'm describing
>and have no complaints.  (if you're doing high fake walls without top
>roping it then hmmm)
>
>As far as paying 5-10 bucks for a hunk o'simulated rock, well, uh, yea -
                                ************************
>I've got this nice big red bridge that I'll give you an excellent deal on.

Well I'm not sure of the point here but Petrogrip's ARE actual granite that
has one side ground flat, a hole countersunk for a mounting bolt and
a whole drilled through for mounting with a 3/8" allen head bolt onto
a Plywood wall using T-nuts on the back.  Basically they are half the
price of plastic and far more realistic.  Also, this system is much easier
to set up than gluing on holds, and YOU WON'T GET BORED WITH YOUR CLIMB cause
you can change the holds around on a whim - try doing that with epoxy.

Also, I'd like to see you glue holds onto a 45 degree overhang or a horizontal
roof.
                   Jim Bowers
From: rogerl@Ingres.COM (Roger Leuthner)
Newsgroups: rec.climbing
Subject: Re: More info on Climbing Wall book and Petrogrips
Date: 14 Aug 92 21:01:37 GMT
Reply-To: rogerl@Ingres.COM (Roger Leuthner)
Organization: Ask Computer Systems Inc., Ingres Division, Alameda CA 94501

In article <92227.124953FQV@psuvm.psu.edu> FQV@psuvm.psu.edu (jim bowers) writes:
>MODULAR HOLDS

Next time you're outside, you might try picking up a few rocks that have
reasonably flat backs.  Then buy yourself some of the epoxy that road
markers are glued down with.  Combine two (add wall) and you've got just
about the most realistic, safe, cheap practice-climbing setup around.  I
don't do a lot of fake wall action, but i've climbed what I'm describing
and have no complaints.  (if you're doing high fake walls without top
roping it then hmmm)

As far as paying 5-10 bucks for a hunk o'simulated rock, well, uh, yea -
I've got this nice big red bridge that I'll give you an excellent deal on.
Newsgroups: rec.climbing
From: AS.MSW@forsythe.stanford.edu (Marc Whitney)
Subject: Re: emergency techniques (was Re: Cathedral Pk. Accident, Yosemite)
Organization: Stanford University, California, USA
Distribution: usa
Date: Fri, 21 Aug 1992 22:50:33 GMT

In article <LIZB.92Aug21113859@klosters.ai.mit.edu>,
lizb@zurich.ai.mit.edu (Liz Bradley) writes:
>I've always wondered about the topology here: how can a rope get a net
>twist in it at ALL when the climbers attached to its two ends don't
>rotate?  Shouldn't the number of clockwise and counterclockwise twists
>be equal?  When you're trying to coil my rope after belaying through a
>munter hitch or a figure 8, it certainly *seems* like a net twist has
>been applied.  Confused.
>
>(Sorry; this is what happens when you let an MIT nerd go climbing :-)
>
Personally, I'm convinced that climbers rotate!  On the ground, on
belay ledges and so on.  The real question is why do we each have a
preference for one direction or the other (If we didn't the twists
would average out over time.)
Newsgroups: rec.climbing,rec.backcountry
From: mwj@beta.lanl.gov (William Johnson)
Subject: Re: unexpected hazards of climbing
Organization: Los Alamos National Laboratory
Date: Thu, 20 Aug 1992 16:11:31 GMT

In article <80717@bcsaic.boeing.com> kew@bcsaic.boeing.com (Keith Williamson) writes:
>
>I had an interesting experience this weekend, involving a hazard of
>climbing that I had never thought of before :-).  
[amusing story of an encounter with a hungry mountain goat deleted]

Stories like this aren't uncommon, and you've correctly identified the reason
underlying them: salt.  I had a somewhat similar mountain-goat encounter while
strolling up Grays and Torreys Peaks in Colorado (along with half the 
population of Denver, it appeared ...), have watched salt-hungry Rocky Mountain
sheep trash out campsites in the Pecos Wilderness, and marveled at teeth marks
produced by a marmot chewing on an ice-axe cover -- left by a climbing partner
at the base of the summit pitch on Mount Wilson (CO), well above 14,000'.  I 
thought he was going to skin and cook that marmot right there and then.  I 
must admit that I've never been literally dumped on by a salt-seeker, though!

I gather from a ranger met in the Pecos (we shared a good laugh about the sheep
incident) that salt deficiency is the main drawback of the high-country ecology
as far as herbivores are concerned; there is plenty of green and growing stuff
for them to munch on, and once you get away from the trailheads full of
hunters, there's nothing left to eat *them* any more.  He indicated that the
lack of salt was causing observable health problems with the sheep, although
it obviously wasn't stopping them from reproducing. :-)  They were thinking
about setting out salt blocks in remote areas, not so much for the good of the
sheep as to motivate them to look for their salt in places other than
campsites and frying pans.  This has its own environmental objections, though,
and I don't think they've done it yet.

Once your campsite has been mugged by one or two of these salt monsters, your
attitude toward hunters and/or reintroduction of predators is likely to, shall
we say, crystallize in a certain position. :-)

-- 
Bill Johnson				| "This is a bit complicated, so let
Los Alamos National Laboratory		| me explain it backwards."  (first
Los Alamos, New Mexico USA		| line of a memo from a fellow Los
!cmcl2!lanl!mwj (mwj@lanl.gov)		| Alamos physicist who will go unnamed)
From: eugene@wilbur.nas.nasa.gov (Eugene N. Miya)
Newsgroups: rec.climbing
Subject: Re: unexpected hazards of climbing
Date: 21 Aug 92 21:16:55 GMT
Organization: NAS, NASA Ames Research Center, Moffett Field, CA

In article <3391@bcstec.ca.boeing.com> leathley@bcstec.ca.boeing.com
(Scott Leathley) writes:
>Trailhead crime (theft, vandalism, etc...) has become a real promlem here in
>Washington.  How is it else where? 

Trail head crime is becoming a big deal near LA, SF, and the Sierra
in recent discussions with rangers.  I have had one car broken into at
a trailhead (years ago, lost a small amount of cash, credit cards, and
a set of work keys: stuff was recovered, it was a ring doing the taking).
That's human activity.  Animal activity is major on various Western Sierra
slope trailheads from Mineral King to Donner Pass: marmots and porcupines,
bears, etc.

--eugene miya, NASA Ames Research Center, eugene@orville.nas.nasa.gov
  Resident Cynic, Rock of Ages Home for Retired Hackers
  {uunet,mailrus,other gateways}!ames!eugene
Second Favorite email message: Returned mail: Cannot send message for 3 days
A Ref: Mathematics and Plausible Reasoning, vol. 1, G. Polya
Newsgroups: rec.climbing
From: eugene@wilbur.nas.nasa.gov (Eugene N. Miya)
Subject: Re: Known details of Cathedral accident (additions/changes) to Morton
Organization: NAS, NASA Ames Research Center, Moffett Field, CA
Date: Wed, 19 Aug 92 23:31:22 GMT
Distribution: usa

In article <1992Aug19.211037.7498@morrow.stanford.edu>
AS.MSW@forsythe.stanford.edu (Marc Whitney) writes:
>Thus if the belay stance is definately known, examining it
>for each of these conditions could shed some light.

This is one major unknown.

>Can anyone suggest other failure modes?

Morton and others have pointed out particularly hard rock, smooth sided
cracks.  

--eugene miya, NASA Ames Research Center, eugene@orville.nas.nasa.gov
  Another one of Dill's Techno Geeks
  Resident Cynic, Rock of Ages Home for Retired Hackers
  {uunet,mailrus,other gateways}!ames!eugene
Second Favorite email message: Returned mail: Cannot send message for 3 days
A Ref: Mathematics and Plausible Reasoning, vol. 1, G. Polya
Newsgroups: rec.climbing
From: weydanz@fraser.sfu.ca (Wolfgang Joachim Weydanz)
Subject: climbing in Vancouver B.C.
Keywords: Climb B.C.
Organization: Simon Fraser University, Burnaby, B.C., Canada
Date: Mon, 17 Aug 1992 22:55:43 GMT



Hello everybody.

I lost my one and only climbing partner in the area, not by accidnet fortunately, but by moving onn his side.

I was woundering, if anybody has information on southwest B.C. climbs and
would be interested in doing some of them with me.

Mainly I am looking for heavy mountaineering and some rock climbing.

PS: I anybody has information on Mt. Logan I would appreciate some general
tips on how long, hard and accessible this mountain is.

Please respond by E-mail, if possible. My address is:
weydanz@fraser.sfu.ca

Thanks, Wolfgang
Xref: sparky rec.climbing:3118 rec.backcountry:6384
From: czichon@psyche.csc.ti.com (Cary Czichon)
Newsgroups: rec.climbing,rec.backcountry
Subject: Re: unexpected hazards of climbing
Date: 20 Aug 92 20:23:47 GMT
Organization: Texas Instruments

What about experiences with some of the worst salt mongers, porcupines.  I
recall camping at Snowmass Lake under Snowmass Mountain and being awakened by
a very large, ill-tempered porcupine at 3:00 am.  He was trying hard to
remove my Vasque hiking boots from a plastic bag just outside the tent door.
I managed to chase him away.  He went directly to another camp site and ate
all the tops off the nalgene water bottles lined up by their tent.  He then
went to a third campsite and ate all the straps off their backpacks.  I guess
I'm lucky I can't sleep soundly in tents.

Cary Czichon
czichon@csc.ti.com
From: uchpcjv@Msu.oscs.montana.edu
Subject: PIE SHOP THANK-YOU NOTE
Reply-To: uchpcjv@Msu.oscs.montana.edu
Organization: Montana State University
Date: Fri, 14 Aug 1992 11:00:33 GMT

Thanks to all the people that sent/posted info. following my request (PIE SHOP,
CA/NV).  Surprisingly (?) I received 25-30 Emails, all of which contained some
valuable information (and opinions) about the crag.

Thanks again.
Jim Vivian
Bozeman, MT
Newsgroups: rec.climbing
From: pat@summit.opus (pat gioannini)
Subject: poor belays
Organization: /home/pat/.organization
	<1992Aug18.163523.8100@serval.net.wsu.edu>
Date: Wed, 19 Aug 1992 14:45:11 GMT


>>I was taught to always have a minimum of 3 anchor points. I was also
>>taught to equalize the anchor points so that no one point is bearing
>>all the load.  

>>On the other hand, I have also learned from practical experience not to put 
>>in a particular anchor point if it is questionable... I was climbing up at
>>snow creek wall in Leavonworth Wa. with a friend of mine. I had finished leading
>>a pitch and put in a belay station. I had two anchor points that I knew were 
>>bomber points, but I was having a hard time finding a third point that would
>>help equalize the anchor. I finally decided on a point that would hold, only
>>if weighted in the right direction... My climbing partner followed me up, and
>>as I was to lead the next pitch as well we traded positions. In the process,
>>the questionable piece popped out... 

>>Even though the other two points held securly, this almost scared my partner
>>to death. After he got over his shock, I had a long time in convincing 
>>him that the other two points were secure... In fact the points were secure
>>because we had to leave one of the nuts behind in the crack it was wedged 
>>in so tightly.

>>So my question is: Should I have used only the two points I was pretty sure
>>to be secure, or should I have spent as long as necessary to find a third 
>>anchor point? As I have only 2-3 years experience, it still takes me quite
>>a while to set up an anchor point that I am confident in.  This can be
>>frustrating to the person who is following me. How should I handle the 
>>temptation of using only two anchor points when it seems that there is 
>>no place where I can put a third? 


I would usually go ahead and use the third piece.  I think it is very important
to inform your climbing partner if you can not set up a good belay.  I often 
climb harder variations when following and would not if I knew the belay was not
good.  I would try very hard to not fall or perhaps talk to the leader about
retreating.

--
pat gioannini
pat@psl.nmsu.edu

Newsgroups: rec.climbing
From: cptully@med.unc.edu (Christopher P. Tully,Pathology,62679)
Subject: Re: emergency techniques (was Re: Cathedral
Reply-To: cptully@med.unc.edu
Organization: UNC-CH School of Medicine
Date: Fri, 21 Aug 1992 17:49:44 GMT


In article 92Aug20185538@aeolia.nmsu.edu, ted@nmsu.edu (Ted Dunning) writes:
[deleted...]
>   >Yes.  And speaking of which, the munter hitch - which I would always
>   >choose over a hip belay - has been significantly absent from this
>   >thread of discussion.  Any comments about the relative merits of these
>   >two techniques?
>   >
>   >Liz Bradley 
>   >MIT AI Lab
>   >
[deleted...]
>
>most rope twist can be avoided with the munter hitch if you take the
>effort and know how.
            ^^^^^^^^
>
>--
>
>There ain't nothin' in this world that's worth being a snot over.
>	Larry Wall

I think that the twisting results from the mantle shifting position
relative to the kernel. But, then again, I've never studied this in
great detail.

And, on the matter of avoiding twisting your rope:

Ted-
It seems to me that a true non-snot would elaborate on this
technique, for those of us who are unfortunate to not already know it,
rather than just mysteriously mentioning its existance.  So, how do I
avoid twisting my rope with the munter hitch?

Chris
---
*********************************************************************
Christopher P. Tully				<cptully@med.unc.edu>
Univ. of North Carolina - Chapel Hill		1122 Vic Charles Dr.
Department of Pathology				Raleigh, NC 27606
CB# 7525			work: (919) 966-2699
Chaple Hill, NC 27599		hone: (919) 851-8816
*********************************************************************
 All opinions above are Copywrite <current year> Christoper P. Tully
From: cranch@novell.com (Christopher Ranch)
Newsgroups: rec.climbing
Subject: Re: emergency techniques (was Re: Cathedral Pk. Accident, Yosemite)
Date: 21 Aug 92 17:46:04 GMT
Followup-To: rec.climbing
Organization: Novell Inc., San Jose, Califonia

In article <1992Aug20.212555.318@halfdome.sf.ca.us> bob@halfdome.sf.ca.us (Bob Pasker) writes:
>In article <1992Aug21.013132.7368@novell.com>, cranch@novell.com (Christopher Ranch) writes:
>> In article <TED.92Aug20185538@aeolia.nmsu.edu> ted@nmsu.edu writes:
>>>There ain't nothin' in this world that's worth being a snot over.
>>>	Larry Wall
>> 
>> 	I'd be most interested in a explanation of this technique...
>
>simple: coun't to ten before you get angry, don't cuss and keep your elbows off
>the table. 
>
>-- 
>-- bob pasker
>-- bob@halfdome.sf.ca.us 
>--

Good one!  You forgot 'leaving the toilet seat down'...  Really, I'm 
interested in the munter hitch technique that won't twist the rope that
Larry mentioned.
---
Chris Ranch
Internetworking Products Division
Novell, Inc.  San Jose, CA
(408)473-8667  cranch@novell.com
I may work for Novell, but I don't speak for them...
From: tom@afthree.as.arizona.edu (Thomas J. Trebisky)
Newsgroups: rec.climbing
Subject: Re: Cathedral Pk. Accident, Yosemite
Date: 19 Aug 92 03:03:54 GMT
Organization: University of Arizona, Tucson, AZ

kjones@yoda.eecs.wsu.edu (Kent Jones - EECS) writes:
>So much for my experience with marginal protection... 
>What does everyone else think? 

Well, since you ask ....

When marginal protection is all you can get, go for it, maybe you will
get lucky.  Actually, I find that once I get a few feet above even a
crummy piece, I tend to forget how bad it is and get kindof a confidence
boost looking down at the rope passing thru something.  So I am able
to keep a cool head, climb safely, and avoid falling and pulling out that
lousey nut and killing myself.

Or you can just be honest about the whole thing and get into really
long leadouts.  A real drawback with fooling around with bad placements
is wasting a piece you could maybe get in somewhere else, not to mention
time and energy fiddling around.  On the other hand, when you am really
determined to get something in, it is amazing some of the placements you
can pull out of the hat.

BTW, the 3 anchor points for a belay has me thinking.  I have usually
strived for two bomber points, often in opposition, so really the whole
setup hangs, so to speak, on just one piece....

It is much easier to judge how solid a big nut is than a small one.
When I am using small wired nuts for a belay, I tend to want at least
3 or so of them, but I feel pretty happy anchored to just my big mother
camalot in a perfect crack.

--
	Tom Trebisky	ttrebisky@as.arizona.edu
...."There's no sense in being precise when you don't even
.... know what you're talking about." 
                       - John von Neumann  
Newsgroups: rec.crafts.misc
From: parnass@cbnewse.cb.att.com (Bob Parnass, AJ9S)
Subject: Re: help with 
Organization: AT&T Bell Laboratories, Naperville, IL
Date: Thu, 20 Aug 1992 01:07:41 GMT
Summary: source for wax, toilet seal


I wanted wax to use in my woodworking projects, so I bought
a wax ring normally used as a seal against the base of toilets.
It was about $1.50 at the local hardware store.
-- 
==============================================================================
Bob Parnass, AJ9S  -  AT&T Bell Labs  -  parnass@ihlpm.att.com - (708)979-5414
Newsgroups: rec.crafts.misc
From: Ann.Feeney@bbs.oit.unc.edu (Ann Feeney)
Subject: CZs
Organization: Extended Bulletin Board Service
Date: Thu, 13 Aug 1992 15:49:01 GMT

Sorry not to post this as a follow-up, but our site didn't save the
message long enough.
I've been happy with Griegers, though it is a bit more
expensive than Rio Grande.
They're in the 800 directory--don't have the address or ph #
on me.


--
   The opinions expressed are not necessarily those of the University of
     North Carolina at Chapel Hill, the Campus Office for Information
        Technology, or the Experimental Bulletin Board Service.
           internet:  bbs.oit.unc.edu or 152.2.22.80
From: mouse@kuhub.cc.ukans.edu
Newsgroups: rec.crafts.misc
Subject: Nancy's "Inspiration" booth
Date: 18 Aug 92 13:48:06 CDT
Organization: University of Kansas Academic Computing Services

I'm writing this to ask fellow netters for ideas and advice.

Our local Antique Mall has closed their second floor for renovation
during the summer months.  When it re-opens on September, this area
will be devoted to arts and crafts products from local artisans in
the Lawrence area, displayed in period/antique/vintage settings.

I have taken a booth in this new area.  I am starting with a strong
emphasis on textile arts, since I have 2 vintage weaving 
looms with all the accessories to sell, as well as
lots of yarn, knitting books, crochet hooks, knitting needles, beads,
antique sewing tools, etc.  I would also like to offer UNUSUAL raw
materials for crafters.  What I mean is... I don't want to offer the
usual basic stuff that "Hobby Lobby" and "Yarn Barn" and "Stitch-On"
shops already have.  The crafters can go there for the basics.  And
there is also plenty of mail-order supply sources, too.  But when
you want something UNIQUE, something out-of-the-way, unusual,
different, one-of-a-kind, ... then I would like them to think of me.  
With that in mind, I've been watching for unusual beads, out-of-print 
patterns, ethnic yarns, etc., to offer.  Wondered what you-all thought
about possible things to include in such a booth.  What would you LOVE
to find... but can't?  What sorts of things do you see in your part of
the country that you think would be special here?   Like buttons...
how about them?  And maybe pottery or ethnic "dangles"?  Vintage
ribbons?  Ummmm.... what else?  Any and all ideas are welcome, both
in e-mail and on net.  And I'll keep you informed on what happens...
as of now, I'm due to open on Sept. 1.

Nancy

* - * - * - * - * - * - * - * - * - * - * - * - * - * - * - * - * - * - * - *
|  N. L. Sliker, Director/Engineering Computing                             |
*  3043 Learned Hall                                                        *
|  University of Kansas            "Everything goes wrong all the time -    |
*  Lawrence, KS  66045                  What you do is fix it."             *
|  mouse@ukanvax.cc.ukans.edu                     -  Gus Pagonis            |
*  (913) 864-3692                                                           *
|  Disclaimer:  My opinions are my own; nobody else is even interested.     |
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From: gwynh@diva.Berkeley.EDU (Gwyn Horn)
Newsgroups: rec.crafts.misc
Subject: Re: Supply for findings?
Date: 20 Aug 1992 19:07:05 GMT
Organization: University of California, Berkeley
Distribution: world
NNTP-Posting-Host: diva.berkeley.edu
Keywords: findings mailorder

Try Fire Mountain Gems 
28195 Redwood Hwy
Cave Junction Oregon 97523-9304
800-423-2319

just ask for their current catalogs.
they have beads (all kinds) howto books, 
 findings, and misc. more!

good prices from what I have seen.

Gwyn