From: prospero@hardy.u.washington.edu (Don't look at me!!)
Newsgroups: rec.games.mud.lp
Subject: Re: **** TOP 10 LPMUDs ****
Date: 18 Aug 92 06:03:19 GMT
Article-I.D.: u.1992Aug18.060319.17314
Organization: University of Washington, Seattle

In article <michael.714053328@aviator.cc.iastate.edu> michael@iastate.edu (Michael M. Huang) writes:
>In <1992Aug17.113249.8144@usenet.ins.cwru.edu> ak853@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Eric Blade) writes:
>
>[Some text deleted]
>>	Have you guys ever heard of a neat thing called simplicity?
>
>Well, to view it from another coin, have you ever heard of a neat thing
>called complexity?  What if someone got on here and started to complain
>about how simple the muds in the current LP world is, and how mindless
>that most of them have become?

I see your point, but does this have to do more with the imaginations of
those coding or the basic lib? On some MU*s it is the wiz's ideas for
areas and guilds. On Genisis (For me, when I logged in) I didn't even
get into the game without being confused. I don't see how someone brand
new to MU*ing can understand it never mind have fun in it. Never mind
finding a fellow player to get help from.

>Maybe the people who code current Genesis *like* the complexity and
>beauty of things.  Maybe, just maybe, there are more players out there
>with more stamina and wit to live in the current Genesis world.  Like
>a favorite cliche from so many postings here "If you don't like it,
>you don't have to stay."  LPMUD, like you said, is programmable.
>And "differences" is the inherent "evil" that comes with the meaning
>of programmability.

A nod to this point as well. For a player who is bored of the whole basic
MU*ing scene and wants something new to sink his teeth into, Genisis may
be the best thing since sliced bread. But a wizard doesn't code for himself,
per se. He wants someone to explore his world. If you are coding a word
processing program for example, do you create an interface that is a challenge
to learn or do you create one where the user can concentrate on the work and
the job at hand? That is how I saw Genisis. I was working so hard to adjust
myself to the mechanics, that I couldn't enjoy the atmosphere.

>LP world used to be pretty much the same.  Every mud you log on all
>look the same.  Most even had same "castles".  You always start up in
>a church (or endoplasmatorium, depending on the side of the Ocean 
>you're on :)  This was the old days.  Then, some insane souls decided
>that "different can be good", and many "different" muds sprang up 
>everywhere.  Different, in those days, meant different baseworld.
>The basic mudlib still remained the same.  Then, people got more
>lunatic and insane and changed the mudlib.  These were not drastic
>changes, mind you.  They were only minor alterations and additions
>here and there.  But, people look at it and say "Different is good".
>From all these ancient alterings (oh... 1-2 years back :) sprung
>the current LP madness, where every mud tries to be different
>and "unique".  But, the truely different muds are those that have
>taken far drastic paths than the rest.

Sometimes different is great, sometimes it don't work so well. It is
like they took a car and made it as complicated as an airplane. The rub
is, that it still does a cars job. Why is this level of complication
needed for Genisis to be different?

>Look around you, mudders.  Sure, most muds are different from each
>other now.  But, if you look closely, they're still the same.  Same
>type of idea operates the same type of mudlib operates the same type
>of gaming system ever since Lars sat down one day and typed in those
>first lines of LP codes.  Many muds claim to be different and running
>the new and improved 3.0, but inherently, they're still the same
>muds that ran on this network highway way back to LPMUD 1.3 or beyond.
>Only a few are the truely original with drastic ideaology changes than
>from the mainstream LPs.  And those are the muds that one should cherish
>and visit, for it would be from those LPs that give rise to the future
>implementations of LP ideas.  When people get sick of the "old ways",
>new ways will be sought out.  And it will be from those muds that the
>copycats of the network will seek their ways.
>

IMHO, I still feel that we are talking about originality. One of the
things I enjoy is a loose theme, but I have seen some original areas that
were well thought out, extremely funny, and a challenge to work through,
that took REAL liberties with that self same declared theme.
The MU* lib was a foundation for the area and not imposed on it. I have
never coded on Genisis (or anywhere else for that manner), but if the lib
is going to enforce a theme, won't that take away from that bit of "self"
that goes into a well thought out area?

>I speak for no particular mud here, only the idea behind "different".
>
>-michael
> From the Grave
> Deceased/retired Vincent's Hollow wanderer.
>
I don't want to take away from the points that I perceive Michael was
making. This was not intended to be critical of him or those who have quite
obviously put in a large load of work into making Genisis work. I recall a
friend, though, who in racing went pro for two seasons. He then returned to
SCCA racing after that period of time. When I asked why, he stated that despite
the quality of the machines and the sponsors, he raced for fun first and money
second. And that racing pro just wasn't fun for him, that it got far too
complicated. I guess I don't care how complicated a MU* gets, as long as it's
fun.

Prospero
Newsgroups: rec.games.mud.lp