From: v124pz9t@ubvmsb.cc.buffalo.edu (David Cheng)
Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.misc
Subject: RQ: Heroquesting Re-addressed
Date: 31 Dec 92 20:57:00 GMT
Organization: University at Buffalo
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41

Right before Christmas, I spoke to Oliver Jovanovic about the HeroQuesting
thread.  Because I was in a terrible hurry to get home, I did not
have time to post his feedback.  Here it is (BTW, Oliver is the point
man on the RQ4 revisions, and a total Gloranthan scholar too).

I asked if HQing caused retroactive change.  What follows is a rough
paraphrase, from my ever-enfeebled memory:


Heroquesting might be able to cause retroactive change, but the quest
would be so difficult that this is near impossible.  For example,
look at the Trolls.  Some of the best heroquesters ever known, with
the _total_ support of their whole society, have failed to break
the Trollkin curse.  

(DC's side note:  The society emphasis is mine.
In Stafford's new game, this is very important.  A single person can
HQ for for personal gain.  This is "small stakes."  A culture hero can
undertake a quest that can affect the entire society, like breaking
the Trollkin curse, or Harmast questing to bring the proper magic back
to Sartarite society.  This is "big stakes."  You need the support
of your culture in order to succeed.)

Back to trollkin:
Should a Troll hero succeed at some point, it will not be like 
trollkin never existed.  It will be a time remembered as cursed.
But, since no culture likes to dwell upon its weaknesses, over
the long run, that 'stain' on history will be de-emphasized.
Rituals to the hero will still be conducted (lest the curse 
reassert itself), but they will be taken for granted.

Yelmalio and the Hill of Gold:
As Oliver understands it, if a powerful heorquester were to 
take the place of Yelmalio, and beat Zorak Zoran, _only (he)_
would get the fire powers.  He could then try to spread the 
knowledge through the cult, and people following his rituals
could get some limited fire powers back too.  But, his action
alone would not be enough to retroactively change history,
as if all Yelmalians always had the fire powers.  It is
conceivable, but such a quest would be _so_ difficult that 
it is nigh impossible.

Elmal => Yelmalio  (Elmal is the name in 'King of Sartar': just got it!)
and
Caladra and Aurelion

The reason people don't remember the true histories is because they 
have been suppressed.

The Elmal/Yelmalio thing was kind of an embarrasment to both sides.
Elmal was a loyal thane of Orlanth.  But, he kidnapped Lightning
Boy from Orlanth, as a way to gain favor from the Fire gods, whom 
he wanted to join.  Orlanth came along and beat him up, taking 
Lightning Boy back.  Zorak Zoran then came along and beat him 
up some more, taking his Fire powers.  Yet, even after all this, 
Yelm accepted Elmal into the pantheon.  

So, the Orlanthi are embarrassed that one of their own gods 
deserted.  The Yelmi are embarrassed that Yelmalio turned out
to be such a wimp.  Thus, both sides kind of gloss over these
issues, and let the truth fade over time...


While the Elmal/Yelmalio story kind of 'died out,' the 
Caladra & Aurelion story was actively, deliberately erased.
(What are their names... Tessele & something?...)  Anyway,
the two God Learner 'founders' of C&A understood that their
cult would be destroyed in the anti-God Learner backlash.
So, they _specifically_ set out to change history.  They 
quested to alter the mythological story of C&A.

Also, the trump piece of evidence:  Some people _do_ know
the truth.  If history were retroactively changed by 
heroquesting, then the new story becomes the _only_
story, right.  

Well, if you can find someone who was around before the 
God Learners, they can tell you what they remember.  
Ralzakark, King of the Dorastor broos, is one such dude.
(Preview of Dorastor...)  He remembers that Caladra and
Aurelion weren't always siblings.  He remembers when there
were Orlanthi worshipping Elmal in the mountains.  You
just have to have the courage to go to Dorastor and ask
him...



Well, that's the word from the Scholar O.J.  I am but a 
simple scribe on this one (but ask me about Rune Magic...).
Of course, _King of Sartar_, which I have just started to read,
will probably give us ten times more head-spinning stuff to
discuss.

Best,
-David Cheng
 drcheng@sales.stern.nyu.edu
Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.misc,rec.games.board