Newsgroups: tx.politics,alt.politics.clinton
Subject: <None>
From: davidc@montagar.com (David L. Cathey)
Date: 5 Oct 92 10:20:23 GMT
 <1992Oct4.061216.9949@nntp.uoregon.edu> <21662@rpp386.lonestar.org>
Distribution: tx
Organization: Montagar Software Concepts, Plano TX

In article <21662@rpp386.lonestar.org>, jfh@rpp386.lonestar.org (John F. Haugh II) writes:
> In article <1992Oct4.061216.9949@nntp.uoregon.edu> eisimps@cie.uoregon.edu (Eileen Simpson) writes:
>>In article <21659@rpp386.lonestar.org> jfh@rpp386.cactus.org (John F. Haugh II) writes:
>>>You have that completely wrong.  It isn't my contention that teachers DO
>>>flee the public school system, but rather that they SHOULD.  Leave the
>>>dying carcass to the those that can't get jobs elsewheres.
>>
>>Why should a public school teacher, with the protections afforded
>>government workers (not to mention the grievance process), go to work in an
>>"employment at will" private school, where s/he can be fired for any reason
>>or not reason, and where the pay is about 1/2 of public school pay?
> 
> Because if people like myself have our way, public schools will be
> abolished.  The current public school system, as Curt Finch frequently
> points out with his news service postings, is based on graft, bribery,
> cronyism, and a slew of other unethical practices.

	You seem have a utopian view of private schools.  You don't think
that there is empire-building, politics, cronyism (who runs/manages the place?)
in the private sector as well?

> A =good= private school teacher is protected by the free-market.  If
> you are a teacher and most of your students excell (see Jaime Escalante
> for an example), no private school will ever dump you.

	Sure they would, since he would piss someone off and they would
dismiss him as uncooperative.  Private schools wouldn't shuffle him off to
another school or district, since they own the other schools or districts.
I'm not saying the private schools are bad, but you are painting a rather
biased image...

> Excellence is its own form of protection.

	No so, you have to play the politics as well, get to know the right
people, etc...  True for the public and the private sector.

> 
> As for the economic issue, the simple truth is that virtually any
> college educated person could be a school teacher in some subject or
> another.

	So virtually anyone can become a teacher.  Those graduates unable to
get a corporate job can still fall back to teaching.  Yes, the simple truth is
that teaching doesn't pay enough.  If you are truly good, then you can get a
better paying job.  If you can't, then you are in competion with so many people
that your dollar value immediately goes down.

>            So long as that statement is true, the FREE-MARKET economics
> of education will remain as they are.

	I.e. supply and demand, big supply of teachers mean teachers get paid
less?  You can even do that without reducing quality, since there are any
number of good qualified teachers, and eventually someone will drop their price
because they are hungry.

	And since private schools compete against each other, then they are
going to be cost conscious and reduce teaching salaries to maintain enrollment.
Where the balance is, who knows.  I don't really think you are concerned
with teachers salaries, and don't seem concerned with education either.  How
are the poor supposed to pay for private schools?

	Hey, if my kid is going to be spending 6 hours a day somewhere, I don't
mind forking over a little cash to see that the person doing the job is well
paid enough, not just paid like a babysitter.

>                                        Public schools pay more because
> they have the force of law behind them to steal your tax dollars.  Take
> that advantage away, and public schools won't be able to compete unless
> they begin to deliver the goods.

	Where I came from, they did compete.  Private schools charged more than
the taxes collected, yet I was able to get a good education.  Public schools 
aren't always the scourge you present, and I doubt that private schools are
the salvation that you believe.

> -- 
> John F. Haugh II           [  TSAKC  ]       UUCP: ...!cs.utexas.edu!rpp386!jfh
> Ma Bell: (512) 251-2151    [ DoF #17 ]            Domain: jfh@rpp386.cactus.org
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David L. Cathey		                |INET: davidc@montagar.com
Montagar Software Concepts              |UUCP: ...!montagar!davidc
P. O. Box 260772, Plano TX  75026-0772  |Fone: (214)-618-2117
Newsgroups: tx.politics,rice.politics