From: mhz@casbah.acns.nwu.edu (Mariam Hakim-Zargar)
Subject: Re: Why Tashdid?
Reply-To: MHz@nwu.edu (Mariam Hakim-Zargar)
Organization: Northwestern University, Evanston, Illinois, USA
Date: Thu, 21 Jan 1993 19:28:00 GMT

In article <1993Jan21.122304.22371@netcom.com> of soc.culture.iranian,
  bavafa@netcom.com (Hooshyar Naraghi) writes:
> In article <1993Jan21.012223.8049@news.acns.nwu.edu> MHz@nwu.edu
> (Mariam Hakim-Zargar) writes:
> 
> I asked:
> >> So the question is why dovom became 'dov-vom' and sevom became 'sev-vom?'
> 
> >Hooshiar jAn,
> bA dorood bar shomA Maryam.
> 
> >	Dovvom and sevvom, have a tashdid for the same reason avval does.
> 
> avval is Arabic so one can apply tashdid rule to it.  dovvom and sevvom
> are not Arabic words - they are definitely Persian - yet we apply tashdid
> rule to them.  I am not at all suggesting this is wrong.  I am searching
> for a possible explanation, if any.

Aha!  Well, sorry about that.  I always thougth that dovvom and sevvom were
arabic words!  You seems to be quite certain they are Farsi.  Well, I don't
know about that.  How does everyone else feel?  So did the arabs borrow these
words from us?!

> Let me confide in you that my 11th grade fArsi teacher in Iran who happened
> to be a knowledgeable teacher sincerely believed this was a mistake.  I
> don't know myself.  He never told us how this mistake could have happened.

Well, languges undergo many changes over the years, and this could be one of
them.  As language is passed on from one generation to the other, and as it
moves from one geographical area to the other, it has a tendency to change
abit with each move it makes.  This could be just one of them.  Linguists of
the western languages (romance and germanic for instance) can easily trace
workds back to their origins by following certain rules of sound
transformation.  For instance, the letters "P" and "F" are interchangeable
letters, and there are many more such examples which I won't  bore you with. 

Now, for this pattern in avval, dovvom, sevvom (I will assume you are right
and they are farsi):

Think about it this way.  Say, at some time, dovom and sevom were not
pronounced with a tashdid, and avval was.  Try to count these three, out loud.
 What happens?  There is a rhythm of speech which is disrupted when you dont
pronounce the tashdid for dovom and sevom.  It makes it hard to go from the
"harsh," "powerful" word of "av-val" to saying a somewhat "limp" word of
"dovom" and "sevom".  Just try it for yourself and see that it is hard not to
put a tashdid on number two and three.  Therefore, it is possible, that at a
certain time in history, people decided that it was easier to say "dov-vom"
and "sev-vom" instead.  The rythm and music of speech has a great impact on
the the psychology  of a people, and I think that in this case, the change is
purly due to a tendency of the speakers to keep the rythm of counting, in with
the rythm of the word.  Notice too, that the first 10 numbers all have two
syllables.  

Well, that's all I'm going to say.  It's just a suggestion and may not have
any truth to it.  I'm not a language expert, so decide for yourselves.
 

RoozetAn khosh,

		MHz
Newsgroups: soc.culture.iranian