From: aabdalla@pollux.usc.edu (Ahmed Abd-Allah)
Newsgroups: talk.religion.misc
Subject: Re: Why I am not a Muslim [was re: Why I am an atheist/Christian...]
Date: 25 Aug 1992 11:13:35 -0700
Organization: University of Southern California, Los Angeles, CA
NNTP-Posting-Host: pollux.usc.edu

In article <1992Aug25.124732.7122@ac.dal.ca> hartigan@ac.dal.ca writes:
>
>In article <l9jcc3INN3hm@pollux.usc.edu>, aabdalla@pollux.usc.edu (Ahmed Abd-Allah) writes:
>> I am deeply saddened by your letter....  It seems you are not objective
>> enough to even mention Islam in your observations...  Why?  
 
>Sorry! It just didn't occur to me. I swim in a sea of Christianity, for 
>better or for worse. Islam is not a strong ideological force in most of
>North America...yet!

The number of Muslims in North America is irrelevant, I think you'd agree, to
whether or not the Qur'an is the Word of God.

>> Hasn't it occured to the disillusioned Christians yet that there is a
>> reason for their disillusionment?  Think!  God sent a messenger to one of the
>> lowliest groups of people (the desert Arabs of that time), and YET the 
>> message is applicable to everyone.  Funny, I'm informing you of a way to
>> the Truth through your mind and heart, but most of you turn away in silence,
>> wanting to wallow in the unfounded 'emotionality' of Christianity.
>Apologies! Most N.A. atheists are "recovering" Christians. In the process of
>this recovery, many do look into other religions.  I find Islam very
>philosophically attractive, but..I don't know, it just seems pretty obvious
>that it's a mythology. This, I think, is an example of cultural programming.
             ^^^^^^^^^^

A gentle reminder: if you make a pointed statement like this, it would help me
understand better if you gave me your support and/or evidence.  I'm willing
to wager that like Mr. Muehlhausen you know virtually nothing about Islam.  And
like I've told him, I don't mean to single you out or cause you any harm.  I
find that I must continually tell Christians of my lack of bad intentions 
because of the enormously bad 'image' of Islam and Muslims in the West...

>I've beentold since infancy that Islam is false/satanic, and that Christianity
                                           ^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Will you follow this without attempting to find out?  Let me reassure you,
Muslims most certainly do not worship Satan, who is man's "open enemy" as 
described in the Qur'an.

>is true/good.  Makes me think that one can really only believe with a whole
    ^^^^

I've pointed out in a couple of other articles that the Bible has enough
errors that it's incorrect to call it 'true.'  The Qur'an is free of these
errors because it is from God Himself - it is not even an 'inspired' word
of a man; rather it is direct Divine revelation.

>heart in the religion of one's childhood. "As the twig is bent, so grows the
>tree."  

The prophet of Islam told us something very similar to your surprising 
insight: "Every person is born a Muslim.  It is only his or her parents
who change them into Christians or Jews."  Don't overanalyze this statement.
The best interpretation is that Islam is the natural state of human at birth,
and that as the human grows and gains the power of reason, the parents can
unduely influence the child to the wrong path.

>> Read the Qur'an.  It supersedes the Bible.  It can't hurt you.
>> 
> I've read bits of the Qur'an (in translation) and find it very beautiful 
>poetry, very different in style from the KJV (which is the benchmark for
>poetry in English) but still beautiful.  Alas - it seems pretty likely that
>is a work of human poetry. A masterpiece, but still human. 

The Qur'an is NOT poetry - but God is aware that you and others will 
initially think that it is.  Here is His answer:

	[36:69]
	And We [God] have not instructed him (the Prophet) in poetry,
	nor is it proper for him: this is no less than a reminder
	and a discourse ("Qur'an") making things clear.

	[26:224]
	And the poets: it is those straying in Evil who follow them.
	Don't you see that they (the poets) wander confused through
	every valley (of words and thoughts) - and they say what 
	they do not practice?

Do these sober answers sound like poetry to you?  A non-Muslim translator
(and even some Muslim ones) may try and match the extreme conciseness of
the original Arabic into the translated language - and the effect is 
often very bad.  I recommend as a starting point you get Muhammad Asad's
English translation of the Qur'an: he was a Christian, and he understands
where you're coming from.

In Arabic poetry (and any poetry actually), the meaning is subservient to
the words.  In the Qur'an, the meaning is what is absolutely important.

Have you read what the Qur'an says on things like war, worship, taxes,
marriage, divorce, creation, law, embryology, entertainment, rain,
work, and other things?  Does the scope of its coverage tell you something
about whether it is "mythological poetry"? 

>Besides on this net alone, I can find you
>
>a Mormon
>a fundamentalist
>a Muslim (you! :) )
>an atheist
>a Buddhist

You put me in the uncomfortable position of invoking a huge amount of reaction
in order to respond to this one ;-)  No, I am not leery of what they might
say, it is just that I have already spent 6 hours within the last couple of
days posting...  and I need to work.  Let me just say why you should
investigate Islam:
	You are obviously inclined to Christianity if you were to
	give up your atheism.  Why?  I can only guess from your 
	words that you admit a certain amount of natural bias from
	childhood, and like I said above, that's to be expected
	according to the Prophet.  Also you may like the idea of so
	much love in Christianity.  Christians often mistakenly
	think that only their religion has love...  Wrong.  Islam
	is from the same One God who sent Jesus as His mortal
	messenger to remind the Jews of the spirit as opposed to
	the law.  Later generations distorted Jesus' message
	terribly.  Hence another prophet was sent with another
	message: the Qur'an.  You'll find the love still present, but
	a funny thing: there's also rationale, reason, and truth.
	Do you know of any other religion so similar to what Jesus
	spoke of, and yet is also at peace with what our minds tell
	us of the natural world?  

>..who can all prove beyond a shadow of a doubt that their religion is the One
>True Faith. What's a guy to do? 

Read.  Educate yourself.  Did you know that the very first verses to be
revealed from the Qur'an in a small dusty cave near Makkah in 610 AD were:

	Read!  In the name of your Lord who created: Created man out 
	of that which clings like a leech.  Read!  And your Lord is Most 
	Bountiful; He Who taught (the use of) the Pen, taught man 
	that which he did not know.

Unusual to the atheist perhaps: God speaking of reading?  writing?  But 
these are the kinds of things a 'rational' being might speak of...  and
surely Islam can't be rational.  Wrong.

"that which clings" is an absolutely accurate description of how the 
fertilized egg implants itself into the uterine wall.  "like a leech"
because it sucks the its nutrition straight from the mother.  The
Qur'an describes the complete embryological process in another verse.
I posted a long article on the Qur'an and science a week ago.  If you
want a copy, let me know.

>Sean Hartigan
>hartigan@ac.dal.ca

Nice talking to you.  Peace.

Ahmed Abd-Allah