From: sallyb@qiclab.scn.rain.com (Sally Bowley)
Subject: Re: sunrise, sunset...sunrise, sunset...
Organization: SCN Research/Qic Laboratories of Tigard, Oregon.
Date: Wed, 2 Sep 1992 19:01:49 GMT

In article <f_jn4nn.boserj@netcom.com> boserj@netcom.com (Jeffrey Boser) writes:
>sallyb@qiclab.scn.rain.com (Sally Bowley) writes:
>>anon-1160@twwells.com (poohbear) writes:
>>>  I tried ice.  It worked sort of...it postponed the cutting, and I htink
>>>I didn't do it as deep as I might have.  I also wrote on my arm with red
>>>marker; not love mmessages but hate and blood but at least I wrote it
>>>instead of cutting it.  
>>
>>good for you!! i'm so glad. the loving messages will come, i'm sure,
>>the less you feel the need to hate. take your own time; 10 written
>>messages of hate are better than 1 of cutting. it's important for you
>>to see your progress and feel proud of yourself!
>
>May I ask what is wrong with poobear's cutting?  Why is ice better?  Why
>is everybody trying to make poobear do something else?  I see no
>evidence that what poobear is doing is incorrect.  After all, the price
>is poobear's to pay, and noone else's.  And dont say that its wrong
>to hurt yourself..  cause it isnt, and we all do that every day.
>I can understand suggesting new methods to deal with pain, but why
>must these other methods be implicitly better?

i absolutely disagree with what you are suggesting and am shocked that
you say poohbear must "pay the price" - for *WHAT*???? i am trying not
to let my anger at your apparent insensitivity towards this situation
cloud my reply, as i am unsure of where you are coming from to cause
you to condone inflicting possibly fatal wounds on oneself. 

firstly, no one is trying to *make* poohbear or anyone else, do
anything. poohbear posted here in obvious distress about the cutting
and it seemed to me (and i gather from the replies of others) that our
advice and support was requested on how to deal with it. poohbear
certainly did not appear to be "happy" about what was happening and
did not seem to feel that it was a "correct" way to deal with the pain
being experienced. ice was suggested i believe because it still causes
some level of physical pain but is not as potentially dangerous as
cutting. also as it melts it may imitate the feeling of blood - the
red ink would also do the same. we uggested alternatives to cutting,
not to dismiss poohbear's pain, but to minimize the danger and trauma
he/she (sorry poohbear, i don't know if you're a man or a woman ;-))
was experiencing. the "wrong" (your word) thing about cutting to me,
is that it could be fatal, and i for one don't want to see this
happen to poohbear. if alternate less dangerous ways of causing pain
to oneself can be found, i ask you - why deny them to someone?

poohbear (an none of us) must "pay the price" as you suggest. poohbear
is *not* responsible for what is causing the underlying pain and i
feel thatyour suggestion that he/she must pay the price suggests
responsibility for thisi feel thatyour suggestion that he/she must pay
the price suggests responsibility for this. i also see it as damaging,
as it could affirm any feelings of self blame and doubt that poohbear
may have. like "see, i knew it was my fault, i *am* to blame therefore
i must be punished and hurt myself some more". is this what you would
see poohbear do? i think it *is* wrong to hurt oneself - i can see why
it is done and have done similar things to myself, but nothing can be
gained by your Self by inflicting pain on yourself. i see my goal as a
survivir to STOP the hurting by others and myself and live the rest of
my life as free of pain as possible. it begins with taking care of
*me*; only then can i protect myself against others.

i can't speak for poohbear of course, but it seemed from posts
thathe/she was seeking ways to end the pain also. 

ad to poohbear, *you do NOT* have any price to pay - you've "paid"
already a hundred times over. you are a good and special person who
does not deserve pain; i hope  you continue to heal safely.

sally
>.....jeff


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