From: shamshoo@shelley.u.washington.edu (Shams Hasan)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.pakistan
Subject: Re: The language on SCP
Summary: It is discretion Ms. Merchant,  discretion, not digression.....
Keywords: Hang loose on the Caboose !
Date: 12 Jan 93 07:07:59 GMT
Article-I.D.: shelley.1itqofINNap2
Distribution: world
Organization: University of Washington, Seattle
NNTP-Posting-Host: shelley.u.washington.edu

In article <1993Jan11.170027.30724@davidsys.com> merchant@davidsys.com (Rukhsana Merchant) writes:
>>In article <1iiabkINNkpq@shelley.u.washington.edu>, shamshoo@shelley.u.washington.edu (Shams Hasan) writes:
>> 
>> Dear Ms. Merchant,
>> 
>> With humble apolgies and scincere respects to the fairer sex and a female
>> muslim I begin this response.
>> 
>> You may not be aware, but, the word *Dear* is a accepted norm of respectable
>> address in the civilized world. Especially with the widespread emanicipation
>
>I am quite aware of the usage of the word *dear*.  The condescending tone
>in which you had replied to the article was quite offensive and if
>you claim to be civilized from a civilized world, then learn to accept
>another's veiwpoint without having to put that person down for that 
>viewpoint.
>
>> of women in the civilized world male muslims, christians, jews, hindoos, etc 
>> all who have come here are becoming more aware of the respect and honesty 
>> required to have good relations with women both at work, and at home.
>> 
>> From your postings in the past on SCP, ie, before the Bhangis/Chamaars came,
>
>I have a past of postings which extends beyond the scope of time since when
>you have been reading SCP.
>
>> you have focused soley on Islam and religious issues in quite some detail.
>
>The articles which dealt with Islam and religious issues were answered
>by what Islam has to say about that particular issue.  The topic is
>reiterated time and again and if the people claim to be muslims and
>follow Islam than they need to hear what Allah (swt) has asked of us as
>Muslims, when we claim to follow Islam.  
>
>> I have read every article to search for myself, the guidance that I have
>> unexpectedly faced when I was least expecting it.
>> 
>> Religion plays an important part in most people's lives around the world.
>> It plays a very important part in my life. However, I chose to learn first
>> from Quran and make the effort to practice in personal life, and donot
>> impose opinions/interpretations as you and others chose to.
>
>I do not choose to put religion in a seperate section of my life and
>only remember it at chosen intervals of my life.  Islam is a way of life
>and everything done with the intention of pleasing Allah (swt) is 
>Ibadat.   Things done without that intention is giving Ibadat to *something
>else* and a form of Shirk.  

Tell me, is Islam your private property ? And if it is, does not it bother
you that your preaching methodology is very much like the barbaric invasions
of the arabs, who have left legacy of illeteracy, corruption, and despotism
in each of the countries they Islamized, with the exception of Malaysia and
Turkey ?


>And I have not imposed anything on you.  You were free not to follow that
>discussion.  A topic closes when there is nothing more to be said.
>There were people interested in that topic.
>
>> 
>> However, SRI soc.religion.islam seems to be quite poorly posted, as compared
>> to SCP and my assumption of your religious postings to SCP is that there was
>> little or no interest from SRI to your postings. I could be wrong, but, that
>> seems a good assumption to make, based upon your repeated posting on SCP.
>
>Make any assumption that you feel satisfied with.  I had something to add
>the discussion at hand.
>
>> 
>> The beauty of Pakistani culture is evident from decent and educated Pakistanis in Pakistan and overseas. However, the postings to which you have called
>> attention to are all Bhangis/Chamaars. Pakistani or Indian or Bengali is
>> immaterial.
>> 
>> True. I am narrow minded and hypocritical to some, and other things to others.
>> 
>> In the end, I would like to apologize once again if I hurt your tender
>> feelings by addressing you as *Dear*, but, that is the only way they teach
>> us in U.S for respectable address to both males and females in print.
>
>Again, please dont concern yourself with my *tender* feelings.  I am 
>quite capable of taking a point without the *dear*, or *Best regards*,
>or concern for my *tender* feelings.
>> 
>> I am, however, open to new ideas and ways of addressing and if you have 
>> innovative suggestions, please offer them, and they will be seriously 
>> considered.
>
>Rukhsana, or Rukhsana Merchant, or Ms. Merchant is fine.  I do not
>need a *dear* attached to it.  However, this is a public forum and
>the point of view is addressed not to a particular person, but
>to the general person so therefore no address is needed, in my opinion.
>In other words, the person who is stating a viewpoint does not need
>to be specified specifically, because he is stating either his viewpoint
>or a viewpoint, so just address the viewpoint.  However, I leave it
>up to your disgression whatever method you choose to apply.  
>
>But for me, I would ask that *I* not be addressed as *Dear*.
>> 
>> Best Regards,
>> Shams Hasan.
>
>Ms. Merchant

Ms. Merchant,

Well, I guess, that seems settled. I am going to make a special consideration
for your sensitivities (note: did not use the word *tender feelings*), and in
your case, will always address with a Ms. Merchant. Happy ?!

So, Ms. Merchant, Islam seems to be something you feel very strongly about,
and as is evidentat least from what I have seen of your postings, you focus on religious matter.

Now, that we all know what a good and upright muslim you are, you may want
to illuminate  the darkness in the *Mushriks* soul  with some guidance, as
to the topic of legal/illegalities of meats, as mentioned in Quran, and as
practiced today.

Maybe you can tell us why, despite the fact that in the place of the revelation
people subsisted on dates and camel/goat milk for centuries, and a animal was
measure of wealth, killed in the name of idol worhip to Kafir gods, or at
a major feast. What provision is provided for today and tommorow, when meats
are a primary diet, not for fifty or hundred thousand malnourished people, but for hundreds of millions and billions in future and is no longer killed for worship of Kafir dieties ? 

Please tell us why, the dogmatic practice on this issue must be observed by
people who donot even offer prayers, a Farz in Islam, and continue to 
preach the same to others ?

Seriously, I am looking for guidance, for illumination and not 
bamboozulment. So, for the mullah types, please spare us, I must request, 
please save your efforts for the unsuspecting and ignorants of your circle.

Best Regards,
Shams Hasan.

btw. please donot qoute whole verses. I keep a copy of the Quran by Yosef Ali
I purchased on Umrah in Saudi Arabia, and a copy of the Bible right next
to my computer. Just refer to the verse should you need to, and that will be
much appreciated. Thank You.