HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: iant@teleride.on.ca (Ian Thomson)
Subject: Re: CBM mention on 12/11/92 Computer Chronicles
Organization: Teleride Sage Ltd.
Date: Tue, 29 Dec 1992 13:36:33 GMT

This is the first time I have posted to this group, I have read it for almost
a year now.  I would like to comment on this Windows/AmigaDos debate.

I have used SUNs, SGIs( INDIGO ), Amigas, PCs with SCO and Interactive Unix, 
Windows and Ataries.  For PCs windows are a major improvement,  I don't care
much about what is an OS what is not, I look mostly for ease of use, speed of
opening windows, and how it looks.

Windows: I don't like it too much, the way the menus work is not what I am 
	 accustomed to, and having to go into dos to run some programs, because
	 of memory limitations etc is a bit much.

AmigaDOS: A bit better, but does things different from Windows, has a different
	  feel.  For me I prefer it, not because it is that much better but
	  I prefer to use it.

Sun/Openlook: This I really like, good, snappy easy to use, the 3 button
	      thing took a bit getting used to, but I think it is great.

Mac: I think this is the ultimate in simplicity, one button to press on the
     mouse, VERY user friendly, and intuitive.  I like this a lot.

SCO: I hate!!


Now all of you netter will pick apart what I said and go for your favourite
GUI.  My point is that they are all fairly good, and that it is a matter of
preference, what you are accusomed to  or what you use the GUI for.

It is like trying to prove which religion is right.  They are all right for
the people who believe in them.

For a programmer, this person might have different needs to a someone who 
is creating Animations or writing a book, or doing scientific research.

A lot of people who use computers to accomplish tasks could not care what
it is running on using which GUI once it is easy to use, there is good
technical support, reliable, good software, and has some measure of 
compatability with the outside world.  PCs fall into this bracket, this
is why the sell a lot.  MACs also fall in this bracket.  Amigas sort of,
but hopefully that is changing.

I like Amigas a lot, they are neat machines, before the 1200 I would have
suggested someone to by a PC if they were looling for a new computer, but
the A1200 looks very good and is priced right.  And somehow there seems
to be less fiddling with Amigas and MACs that PCs to get them working 
smoothly.

Flame away.

Ian
From: bmccnnll@unix1.tcd.ie (Barry McConnell)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
Subject: Re: World of Commodore Toronto
Date: 20 Dec 92 20:39:15 GMT
Organization: Trinity College, Dublin

In <71847@cup.portal.com> TomK@cup.portal.com (Tom R Krotchko) writes:

>Moral 1.a. Assign T: to a hard drive. Turbotext will keep generational
>backups in T:. You can at least go to one older version.

You can actually tell TTX to put its backups anywhere; T: is just the default.
I did originally think of this, but didn't like the idea of some of my larger
(1MB) text files suddenly being duplicated... :-)  However, I may actually
start using this option, and see if it comes in handy in the event of an
emergency in the near future...

Barry.
From: bloc1469@ee.ee.uwm.edu (Gregory R Block)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
Subject: Re: CBM mention on 12/11/92 Computer Chronicles
Date: 29 Dec 1992 05:46:21 GMT
Organization: Electrical Engineering Dept. University of Wisconsin - Milwaukee
NNTP-Posting-Host: 129.89.2.33

In article <1992Dec28.202743.17526@sol.ctr.columbia.edu> jerry@msi.com (Jerry Shekhel) writes:
>That's not what I see.  The only people I've seen claim that Windows is not
>an OS are fanatics of one system or another.  Unfortunately, they run into
>serious trouble when they try to classify it as something else...

What else CAN you classify it as?  There has NEVER, in my memory, been
a program that acted similarly.  Windows seems to get a classification
of incompetence all its own.  Unfortunately NT promises to be that and
more.

>I always found it rather well-designed and powerful.  It has complete
>device independence for graphics, sound, and printing devices.  How many
>kludges and hacks are this flexible?

Only one, obviously.  Doesn't your average MS-DOS game come with lots
of drivers?  Think of it like that.  This program happens to have lots
of drivers, and gives the user programs access to them through support
functions.

It's an "operating environment", I guess.  That's what Gates had
called it upon its misconception, before the miscreants rose up to
deem it an "OS".  I still hold that it is nothing more than an
Operating Environment.  While an OS is also an Operating Environment,
an OE is NOT an OS.  It's kind of like a square is a type of
rectangle, but a rectangle is not a square type of deal.

>As is Windows.

Usable, yes.  But it has no merits as an operating system.

>How can you say that without ever seeing the released product?

Must I use every operating system out there to understand the
theories, practices, architectures, and workings within?  I think not.
At least I hope not, or I'll be buying thousands of operating systems
just so I have a clue.  I find that NT has the best and worst of many
worlds.  It has a powerful filesystem architecture similar to that of
the Amiga.  It has an advanced microkernal (though flaws about its
operation are still undetermined), LOTS of features, and a size that
could give many UNIX systems a run for your performance.
Unfortunately, I don't believe NT can compete with unix.  And it may
have to.

Greg


--
(: (: (: (: Have you overdosed on smileys today?  Why NOT!?! :) :) :) :)
(: "Our father, who art in Iowa, Hollow be thy head, Thy ideas run    :)
(:  Thy will be done, At Commodore as it is at Apple"  -Dan Barrett   :)
(: (: (: (: (: (: (: (: (: (: (: (: () :) :) :) Wubba, the Dark Angel :)
From: AVID@cup.portal.com (Jim C Plant)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
Subject: Re: Commodore Amiga Dealerships?
Date: Mon, 21 Dec 92 18:16:12 PST
Organization: The Portal System (TM)
Distribution: na

Try calling Commodore's main number (215) 431-9100. That should get
you on the right track. Good Luck! We need more (good) dealers!
From: das9674@usl.edu (Stephenson Daniel A)
Subject: Re: Some Amiga questions!
Organization: University of Southwestern Louisiana
Date: Wed, 23 Dec 1992 19:56:06 GMT

In article <29835@castle.ed.ac.uk> marks@castle.ed.ac.uk (Mark Steyn) writes:
>das9674@usl.edu (Stephenson Daniel A) writes:
>
>>I found where to change the pointer... I made something a lot better...
>>but now when I click on the desktop, or something, it changes into
>>the number '1016' with a red band on the top and bottom if it...
>>and THAT acts as the '
>>pointer!
>
>It's a clock Dan.  You must be using the Clock pointer utility in the
>Utilities directory.  To edit the pointer you use the preferences
>utility. 

Gahh, I think you're right.  I remember clicking on something like that
'to see what would happen'. 8)

>>Dan Stephenson                                         das9674@usl.edu  
>>"Yes Dan, I have heard of Ultima Underworld.  From my point of view it
>> appears to be a rather large stick which you seem to be using to beat
>> everbody in this group with." -Mark Steyn, comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
>
>AARRRGGGHHHHH!!!!! :-( :-( :-(

What?  You have a problem with this?

>	Mark
>"A little nonsense now and then,                \ Mark Steyn :          \
> Is relished by the wisest men"                  \ marks@castle.ed.ac.uk \
>          Willy Wonka                             \ mpjs@dcs.ed.ac.uk     \
--
Dan Stephenson                                         das9674@usl.edu  
"Yes Dan, I have heard of Ultima Underworld.  From my point of view it
 appears to be a rather large stick which you seem to be using to beat
 everbody in this group with." -Mark Steyn, comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
From: mikeh@starnine.com (Mike Haas)
Subject: Re: Comdex/Quicktime released for the PC
Date: Thu, 24 Dec 1992 03:53:07 GMT
Organization: StarNine Technologies, Inc.

In article <1992Dec14.210945.2081@pcnntp.apple.com> Dale_Adams@gateway.qm.apple.com (Dale Adams) writes:
>In article <1992Dec14.114702.4604@memstvx1.memst.edu> 
>cse_stu@memstvx1.memst.edu writes:
>
>> I work on mac's and amiga's and when the program tells you that you are 
>> doing 30 frames a sec it will not allways give you that output. I can test 
>> the amiga easily by recording the animation onto videotape where I can step 
>> through each frame to see if there are any changes. On the mac you are not 
>> as lucky but if you can go to video tape that will be the real test.
>
>The Quadras will produce NTSC or PAL timing so the video output can easily 
>be sent to videotape.  (You do need an external RGB-to-composite converter 
>to produce color composite video.)  I haven't tried this.  It sounds like 
>an interesting test, though.  I have simply asked the animation program to 
>play back at the maximum rate it can.  The output rate is definitely 3 
>times the rate of a slower Mac whose maximum frame rate is 30 fps using 
>the same software.  Slower Macs scale similarly.

All you can speak of is the top-of-the-line mac!  So unless you
spend the max, you can't get decent animation, eh?

Really sounds like a machine and OS TUNED for video, right!

>
>> I've seen a Quadra running quick time and the sales guy said it was 30 
>> frames per sec and 24 bit color but when I looked at
>> the picture it was at best 10 or 12bit color and 8 to 10 frames per sec.
>
>I never said I was using QuickTime.  If you're trying to get the maximum 
>frame rate possible, QuickTime is not what you want to use.  

If you're trying to get the maximum frame rate possible, A
Macintosh is not what you want to use.

>And never, 
>never believe the sales guy.

And never, never buy a Mac.

(Although using QT 1.5 I can playback 320 x 
>240 animations at 30 fps on a 16 bit/pixel screen.)

Using only the most expensive mac.  Go ahead, pay apple for the priveledge
of doing what an Amiga 600 can do better.

>
>> I should know because I have been dealing in animations for the past 5 
>> years and I can tell 30 frames per second and I have never since any mac 
>> that is able or has the specs to have full frame rate, full screeen 
>> animation.
>
>Then meet my Quadra 950.  (Maybe you haven't been using the right 
>software?)

And the fact that you need an 040 to do simple 30fps anims indicates
you're not using the right computer.
From: bloc1469@ee.ee.uwm.edu (Gregory R Block)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
Subject: Re: CBM mention on 12/11/92 Computer Chronicles
Date: 24 Dec 92 00:03:12 GMT
Organization: Electrical Engineering Dept. University of Wisconsin - Milwaukee
NNTP-Posting-Host: 129.89.2.33

In article <1992Dec22.203903.26699@sol.ctr.columbia.edu> jerry@msi.com (Jerry Shekhel) writes:
>You're quite wrong about that.  The Windows solutions are extremely well
>integrated, and have excellent keyboard, menu, and panel access to the
>screens which they manage.

Yes, but the PROGRAMS, lad!  I'm sure you can GET to those screens,
but the gymnastics you must perform to get your WINDOWS there must be
hell?  2.0 and up programs will open on the default public screen,
which just happens to, at first, be the Workbench.  PS-aware programs
can be given the name of a public screen to open on.  If it is there,
it opens on it.  If not, it opens on the default public screen.  If
it's pre-2.0, or you want EVERYTHING somewhere else, you can set a
"Shanghai" mode which pulls EVERYTHING to one window.

>The window opens in the current screen, and then you can move it to a
>different one.  Unfortunately, your usage of the verb "shanghai" eludes me,
>so I can't answer the rest of your questions.

There ya go.  :)  No utilites exist to move already-opened windows on
the Amiga--it simply opens on the one you want it to, the first time
around.

Shanghai:  To kidnap.  :)

>If you're talking about extending real estate, it's still a half-baked,
>if fast, solution, as screens are limited by Chip RAM.  Put a high-color paint
>program on a screen, and there goes half your Chip RAM.  I know, I know,
>"Why would you need more than that?"

Well, assuming you're painting in 800x600x8, you'll eat about 460k of
ram.  The question comes in "how many do you need" style...  You _DO_
have two megs of chip, these days, you know.

Greg

--
(: (: (: (: Have you overdosed on smileys today?  Why NOT!?! :) :) :) :)
(: "Our father, who art in Iowa, Hollow be thy head, Thy ideas run    :)
(:  Thy will be done, At Commodore as it is at Apple"  -Dan Barrett   :)
(: (: (: (: (: (: (: (: (: (: (: (: () :) :) :) Wubba, the Dark Angel :)
From: ggg@kepler.unh.edu (Gregory G Greene)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
Subject: Re: 1200/4000 pricing
Date: 30 Dec 1992 23:46:13 GMT
Organization: University of New Hampshire  -  Durham, NH
NNTP-Posting-Host: kepler.unh.edu

In article (Tim Ciceran) writes:
'>This price is quite high. In Canada, the three pieces are going for $1300 or
'>~$1000 U.S. This includes a 40 MB drive and 1960 multisync. For an additional,
'>$79, most dealers will bundle an 80 MB drive.

	Tim, I don't know where you are getting these exchange rates.  I live
   in the US and the 2 places that sell Amigas near me are certainly not using
   your exchange rate.  The A1200 + 40meg HD + 1960 is at least $1300 here.

							Greg Greene
                                                        ggg@kepler.unh.edu
Organization: Queen's University at Kingston
Date: Thu, 24 Dec 1992 19:13:14 EST
From: <LEEK@QUCDN.QueensU.CA>
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
Subject: Re: Future Amiga chipsets
 <1992Dec13.042019.10045@sol.cs.wmich.edu>
 <BzFFFz.1uG@undergrad.math.waterloo.edu>

In article <BzFFFz.1uG@undergrad.math.waterloo.edu>,
papresco@cantor.math.uwaterloo.ca (Paul Prescod) says:
>
>Yeah, right.  I can GUARANTEE you that the PC will have a 64 bit bus
>before the Amiga, no question.
>
>Hear me now, believe me later.  There will be 64 bit bus PCs before
>the end of 1993.                              ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Make that "There will be 64 bit PC buses....."

The PC crowd even have problems settling on a standard local bus at
the moment.  The 64-bit 'bus' you are hinting is probably the raw
CPU bus signals + a few control lines.  The high bandwidth that comes
with it would only be useful for memory expansion (eg. cache, ram)
hardly a general purpose bus for peripherals.  Eventually there might
be a 'standard' for a more general purpose high performance bus, but
that's a few years down the road.

K. C. Lee
Elec. Eng. Grad. Student
From: jaker@csugrad.cs.vt.edu (Jake Rose)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
Subject: Re: Portable GUI Builders and *YOU* (Call now!)
Date: 25 Dec 92 13:51:34 GMT
Organization: Virginia Tech Computer Science Dept, Blacksburg, VA

tmc@spartan.ac.BrockU.CA (Tim Ciceran) writes:
>In article <Bzq1yq.6Iu@csugrad.cs.vt.edu> jaker@csugrad.cs.vt.edu (Jake Rose)
>writes:
>>I'm well aware of the existence of the AppBuilder project - believe me,
>>it makes a difference (now if it were only *free* :) ), but the point of
>>this is not to have an interface builder for the Amiga, it's to make
>>people aware of the Amiga as a viable market.  If they're writing software
>>on a PC with these systems, it's no sweat to build an Amiga version if
>>they support the Amiga.

>I appreciate your concern, but the viability of such a product is a bit
>dubious. The effort must come from CBM.

I hate to point this out, but CBM is actually doing *work on the Amiga*
right now.  I'm so impressed!  I don't want to disturb them! :)
-- 
::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::
Jake Rose               :: I like work - it fascinates me.
jaker@csugrad.cs.vt.edu ::                  I can sit and look at it for hours!
::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
From: jerry@msi.com (Jerry Shekhel)
Subject: Re: Don't let the Amiga Die (Part II)!!!
Organization: Molecular Simulations, Inc.
Date: Tue, 29 Dec 1992 17:33:09 GMT
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1 PL8]
X-Posted-From: hemi.msi.com
NNTP-Posting-Host: sol.ctr.columbia.edu

Ray (rjc@hal.gnu.ai.mit.edu) wrote:
: >
: >Right.  You think a 512KB Amiga (with no virtual memory, of course), could
: >ever run something like Word?  FrameMaker?  Quicken?  Improv?  Paradox?
: >Falcon 3?  Ultima Underworld?  Think again, denizen.
:
: Ever heard of overlays Jerry? Did you know that a very popular computer
: used to run applications of this calibre using only 140k more ram than
: the Amiga?
:

Overlays are cute (if slow) for squeezing lots of code into a small space,
but what about data?  What happens when the image I import into FrameMaker
takes up more than 512K?  There is a reason why overlays never replaced
virtual memory, you know.

And BTW, the PC can't run any of the above-mentioned apps with just 640K.
--
+-------------------+----------------------------+---------------------------+
| JERRY J. SHEKHEL  | Molecular Simulations Inc. | Time just fades the pages |
| Drummers do it... |     Burlington, MA USA     | in my book of memories.   |
|    ... In rhythm! |        jerry@msi.com       |         -- Guns N' Roses  |
+-------------------+----------------------------+---------------------------+
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
From: jerry@msi.com (Jerry Shekhel)
Subject: Re: CBM mention on 12/11/92 Computer Chronicles
Organization: Molecular Simulations, Inc.
Date: Sat, 26 Dec 1992 20:32:12 GMT
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1 PL8]
X-Posted-From: hemi.msi.com
NNTP-Posting-Host: sol.ctr.columbia.edu

John Bickers (jbickers@templar.actrix.gen.nz) wrote:
:
: > I disagree.  Why is it, then, that Amiga programs *don't* have consistent
: > user interfaces?  IMHO, screens are useful on the Amiga for two reasons.
:
:     What worthwhile PC OS has programs with consistent user
:     interfaces?
:

Windows and OS/2.

:
:     Also, with Snap or PowerSnap, it is easy to cut and paste from one
:     application to another. God knows how you do it under Windows or
:     OS/2.
:

You use the Clipboard.  I thought the Amiga had one too.  What's with this
"Snap" stuff?

:
:     The Amiga has better GUI performance than most systems mentioned
:     here, except maybe the Archimedes.
:

I always found the GUI performance of my 386+VGA to be as good as or better
than that of a stock A3000.

:
:     This foolish statement is very reminiscent of what Dan S said
:     about people twisting HDs into a Bad Thing. The different video
:     modes that the Amiga hardware supports are a Good Thing, and DIG
:     is irrelevant to them.
:
:     The fact that the OS can manage the different video modes in a
:     manner that is _better_ than OS/2 2.0 just shows how slick the
:     Amiga is.
:

Slick, yes.  Particularly useful?  IMHO, no.

:
: *** John Bickers, TAP.                   jbickers@templar.actrix.gen.nz ***
:
--
+-------------------+----------------------------+---------------------------+
| JERRY J. SHEKHEL  | Molecular Simulations Inc. | Time just fades the pages |
| Drummers do it... |     Burlington, MA USA     | in my book of memories.   |
|    ... In rhythm! |        jerry@msi.com       |         -- Guns N' Roses  |
+-------------------+----------------------------+---------------------------+
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
From: jerry@msi.com (Jerry Shekhel)
Subject: Re: CBM mention on 12/11/92 Computer Chronicles
Organization: Molecular Simulations, Inc.
Date: Tue, 29 Dec 1992 17:53:09 GMT
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1 PL8]
X-Posted-From: hemi.msi.com
NNTP-Posting-Host: sol.ctr.columbia.edu

Martin Ozolins (monster@mbear.apana.org.au) wrote:
:
: Pls do not start this again Jerry, the last time you did you went away 
: for a few weeks after you were proved incorrect about what an OS is
:

Or maybe I went away because my company moved and our new router was
blocking out the NNTP port?

:
: Martin Ozolins :Internet monster@mbear.apana.org.au
:
--
+-------------------+----------------------------+---------------------------+
| JERRY J. SHEKHEL  | Molecular Simulations Inc. | Time just fades the pages |
| Drummers do it... |     Burlington, MA USA     | in my book of memories.   |
|    ... In rhythm! |        jerry@msi.com       |         -- Guns N' Roses  |
+-------------------+----------------------------+---------------------------+
From: bruce@zuhause.MN.ORG (Bruce Albrecht)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
Subject: Re:  Does reading this group make you depressed? The story of a victim.
Date: 1 Jan 93 00:11:14 GMT
Organization: Society to Stamp Out Bogus Organizations

In article <C03GDA.HoJ@news.iastate.edu> barrett@iastate.edu (Marc N. Barrett) writes:
>   I stated that there is no Amiga CD-ROM or (good) productivity software 
>available for the Amiga.  Perhaps my qualifying productivity software with the
>word "good" confused people.  I did this because the Amiga does have some
>productivity software available, but no really good productivity software
>available.  Perhaps if I had stated "there is no CD-ROM or productivity 
>software available for the Amiga", leaving out the word "good", it would 
>have made more sense.  But then people would have countered by naming apps
>like Final Copy which are productivity apps, but not very good productivity
>apps.

It's tough to counter a Marc Barrett argument.  Just what are "good" productivity
apps?  Apparently anything written for any machine EXCEPT the Amiga.  Seriously,
most of the Amiga WP software is comparable to the WP software one gets in packages
like MS Works.  It's true that WP5.1, MS Word and Ami-Pro are a step above the Amiga
WP, but many of those features that are lacking in the Amiga WP software aren't used
by most DOS/Mac users.  The two areas where I'd say the Amiga is way behind Mac/DOS
apps are spreadsheets and databases.
--
bruce@zuhause.mn.org
Youth is wasted on the young.
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
Subject: Re: UI Re: CBM mention on 12/11/92 Computer Chronicles
From: jbickers@templar.actrix.gen.nz (John Bickers)
Date: 27 Dec 92 20:02:47 PST
 <jbickers.0m2d@templar.actrix.gen.nz> <1hia1bINN6l8@mozz.unh.edu>
Organization: TAP

Quoted from <1hia1bINN6l8@mozz.unh.edu> by ggg@kepler.unh.edu (Gregory G Greene):

> '>    Given comparable hardware, Workbench will outperform the OS/2
> '>    thing. If an A500 outperforms a '386 at window updates, then a

> 	Sure, but whats the resolution and colordepth of WB on that A500?

    On the one hand the A500 does have less data to move around. On
    the other hand the A500 has a bandwidth problem to CHIP RAM and
    the display is planar, whereas a 256-color VGA display is chunky.
    The latter means the A500 has to do more with its data, or would
    if it didn't have the extra hardware that makes an Amiga what it
    is.

    The other factor of course is how the software does refreshing.

>      Saying an A500 running a low resolution 4 color WB outperforms a 386
>      running Win3.x or OS2 at a minimum of 640x480x16 isn't saying much.

    It could be saying that the PC systems have chosen an unfortunate
    resolution to operate in. PCs under MS-DOS got along fine for
    years with an 80x25 display, even in PAL countries.

> '>    suitably beefed up Amiga will also outperform a '486. Even if the

>         Yeah, but whats that beefed up Amiga gonna cost?  The above system

    Sorry, are we talking about cost now? The A500 provides all the
    GUI performance you need, if you're willing to give all this other
    esoteric stuff a miss.

>      And it will also be burning a much larger whole in your wallet.

    No doubt about that. I don't think Amiga users would beef up their
    displays just to get a faster Workbench. In fact, I sometimes use
    MultiRipper to drop _down_ to a 1-plane Workbench screen, just for
    a change.

> 							Greg Greene
--
*** John Bickers, TAP.                   jbickers@templar.actrix.gen.nz ***
***    "Radioactivity - It's in the air, for you and me" - Kraftwerk    ***
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy,comp.sys.amiga.misc