HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
Organization: Emory University - Atlanta, Georgia, USA
X-Acknowledge-To: <LIBSAC@EMUVM1>
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.christia
Date:         Wed, 30 Sep 1992 15:36:28 EDT
From:         "SHELBY A. CROSS" <LIBSAC@EMUVM1.BITNET>
Subject:      RIGHT STANDING WITH GOD?

Greetings in  Jesus Name!! This  is my first time  sending in a  reply so
count all mistakes  as love. 1) You  need to have faith in  Christ - John
3:16 and salvation; 2) You must love the  Lord thy God with all thy heart
soul and mind; and love your neighbor as yourself; 3) We need the indwel-
ling of the Holy Spirit - Acts 1:8; 4) We need Agape love - 1 Corinthians
13th Chapter.
If you live this you will fulfill  all the requirements. Jesus is the au-
thor and finisher of our faith and  Bishop of our souls. Without faith it
is impossible to please  Him. We must worship Him in  Spirit and in Truth
and God is a rewarder of them  that diligently seek Him. Prov. 3:5-6 says
Trust in the  Lord with all thine  heart and lean not on  your own under-
standing. In all thy ways acknowledge  Him and He shall direct thy paths.
This is a promise dear friends that we can count on.
Jesus said  if you love me,  keep my commandments  - It's not hard  to do
what God requires of us; there is  now no condemnation for those who walk
not after the flesh but after the Spirit.  Pray for me as I will be pray-
ing for you all!

Yours in Christ,
Shelby  -  Emory   University,  Atlanta,  GA.  LIBSAC@EMUVM1.CC.EMORY.EDU
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.christia
Date:         Mon, 28 Sep 1992 10:02:55 EST
From:         Kerry Stephenson <KSTE@PURCCVM.BITNET>
Subject:      Small group alert

Hi all:

Sorry to bother the list with this, but I am having difficulty reaching
some people.

Would the following people please email me and let me know whether you
have received the small group messages and whether you are still interested
in being in the group?

The study will begin this Wednesday night.

Thank you.

                 Scott Derby
                 Juan Perla
                 Michael Bruce
                 Kim Laird
                 Julie Nott
                 Francis Botelho
                 Toni Benner
                 Kay Kowalski
                 Fritz Block
                 Marci Hendrix
                 Fran Burkert
                 JStahley
                 Scott (?) Armstrong


Love INC,

--Kerry (KSTE@PURCCVM.BITNET)
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.christia
Date:         Mon, 28 Sep 1992 07:06:05 CDT
From:         Jesse Carnes <NOTJIC@LSUVM.BITNET>
Subject:      Re: Why Did Jesus Die?
              25 Sep 1992 03:56:59 GMT from <gjm11@CUS.CAM.AC.UK>

Dear Gareth ;

This post to you et al, might be somewhat replicated in my long E-mail to
you which is soon to come ... hopefully.

Nevertheless, if we say that Jesus died for ALL of the sins of ALL persons
without exception, a problem arises :

The "Unpardonable Sin"


Now, this sin is unpardonable on two possible bases :

1) Jesus' blood had only limited power to save

2) This sin was never within the purview of Jesus' atoning death.


I hold to # 2 because number one does no justice to the omnipotence of
God.
If that sin was greater in power than Jesus' power to save, then who or
WHAT is God around here?

To say that Jesus died for ALL of the sins of ALL people is to include
those misfortunates who commit this sin which Jesus says "will not be forgiven
in this age nor in the age to come."

Also, "will not" seems to have a different taste than "can not."

If Jesus did cover ALL sins of ALL people, how can there be an unpardonable
sin ... now please do not say how we respond to the Gospel or not ... that is
not even a part of Jesus' atonement, unless we believe WE had a part in saving
ourselves at the cross.  In other words, do WE determine the power or lack
thereof in Jesus' death??

If there is an unpardonable sin as Jesus' denotes, then there are a few
who commit it.  Either Jesus did not die for ALL sins of ALL people, or He
died for ALL sins of SOME people.

To say that He died for ALL sins of MOST people and SOME sins of OTHERS
is to be rediculous :

WHY die for the unatonable?
Why substitute for the unsavable?
Does God do the superfluous??



Jesse Irwin Carnes
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU
X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.3 PL0]
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.christia
Date:         Thu, 1 Oct 1992 16:24:54 CST
From:         Ian Williams <iwilliam@AU.ORACLE.COM>
Subject:      MEETING GOD

I was thinking about a post someone just sent about what they
would feel like when meeting God, her friend said she would dread it,
and she said she was looking forward to it..

This got me thinking,
I was reading the lryics to a recent Carmen album where he describes
a fictional (I think) NDE (near death experience). He describes
becoming aware of the presence of God and the ultimate VIRTUE of the
living God and how it affected him..

I think that if it was for my performance on earth, the way I have lived
and the things I have done, I would not be able to be in the same place
as God. His very virtue would demand that I be removed..... However, I
can rest assured that it is _NOT_ my performance that will be the
measuring mark when I stand before the Lord - it will be the standard
of JESUS CHRIST. I will share in the righteousness of Christ, because the
bible says that we are the rightousness of Christ Jesus..

I will be able to stand and rejoice in the presence of God, because I know
that Jesus died for me, he made me acceptable to God, that my shortcommings
and failures and even sin will not disqualify me from heaven..


---------------------+-------------+-----------------------------------------
Ian Williams         |    _--_|\   |      Internet: iwilliam@au.oracle.com
Oracle Systems       |   /      \  |	  Phone	  : +61 8 239 3900
Adelaide, Australia  |   \_.--*_/  |
                     |         v   |
From: TUK@IAEA1.BITNET (Peter Tuff)
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.christia
Subject: Re: males vs females and God/PRAYER REQUEST!
Date: 2 Oct 92 19:33:33 GMT
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU

Hi Ian!

> Do any of you out there think or wonder if being a male or female can affect
> your relationship with the Male Jesus, and the male way that we tend to
> see the Father (although he is without sex).

If you mean without sexuality (?) I s'pose I'd agree, although I think
one could refer to God the Father as being MASCULINE, even the "God is
Spirit, and they who worship..." etc.

I like C.S. Lewis' comment (paraphrased), " He is so masculine, that
all of us, male and female, are feminine by comparison." (from one of
the Space Trilogy - don't remember which... last one, I think - "That
Hideous Strength)

Something I want/need right now is to discover my first love for Jesus.
I don't want to try and manufacture or conjure something up.  I think I
just need to spend time with Him - in His Word and in prayer/quiet time.
How can I grow in my love for Him if I don't "show up" for our meetings/
"dates"?  I find myself dashing off to do whatever in full-fledged
"Martha-mode" with a "Thanks for everything, Lord" hollered quickly over
my shoulder as dash off to something unimportant in the grand and
glorious scheme of things.

HELP!  Please pray for me!

with love in Jesus,

Peter
IAEA, Vienna
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU
X-Envelope-to: CHRISTIA@ASUACAD.BITNET
Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT
X-Vmsmail-To: SMTP%"CHRISTIA%ASUACAD.BITNET@vaxf.Colorado.EDU"
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.christia
Date:         Thu, 1 Oct 1992 23:32:57 -0600
From:         "(Glenn Radinsky)" <S05152@DOC.FLC.COLORADO.EDU>
Subject:      What I think my place in heaven would be like

Hello again:

     Carl Lahetta writes:

>   Jesus mentioned that he goes and prepares a place for us
> in Heaven.  What do you think your place would be like?
>
> Carl----+

     I don't really have any idea of what this would be
like.  Sometimes when I am feeling kinda righteous and am
hanging around with other righteous people, I think of this
big mansion up there that has a glorious view of all the
heavenly scenery...

     But sometimes when I am sinful and have just caught
myself in this state, I think that I would be lucky if I
even got an outhouse up there.  But then again, I think that
an outhouse in heaven beats a mansion here any day.  The
main thing I look forward to as far as Heaven is concerned
is that I am finally going to cast my crown at my Father's
feet without my own sin and selfishness getting in the way.
And that is going to be done awesome day!

                         God Bless,



                            Glenn
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.christia
Date:         Mon, 28 Sep 1992 09:40:12 EST
From:         Kerry Stephenson <KSTE@PURCCVM.BITNET>
Subject:      Re: Rush, a Christian?
              28 Sep 1992 09:23:00 EST from <GRAHAM%DRCV06.decnet@DRCVAX.AF.MIL>

Dan:

What you have missed is Rush's sense of humor.  He is a Christian.  He
is also a social satirist.  He is not a Nazi.

Love INC,

--Kerry
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.christia
Date:         Mon, 5 Oct 1992 13:05:00 EDT
From:         "Joseph_I.Scully" <21010JIS@MSU.BITNET>
Subject:      The Jerusalem conference.

Sorry, Dan, but I just can't let this one go by. Those "silly Jewish
regulations" James talks about in Acts 15 refer in part back to the Noahide
laws given to men (Jew and Gentile) in Genesis 9 (v.4. but you must not eat
meat that has its lifeblood in it). Note that this preceded both the Abrahamic
and Mosaic covenants. Regardless of your position of these particular issues
(as a Messianic Jew I am still undecided whether it is appropriate to abide
by this, although I know that by grace I am not required to do so), these are
real issues based on real scripture.

I have to finish a statistics assignment today; otherwise I'd have looked up
the other references on the other points and responded more fully.

In Christ,

Joe Scully
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU
X-Delivery-Notice:  SMTP MAIL FROM does not correspond to sender.
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.christia
Date:         Mon, 28 Sep 1992 14:23:12 -0400
Reply-To:     ewanco@mlo.dec.com
From:         Eric James Ewanco <eje@IRENAEUS.MLO.DEC.COM>
Subject:      Re: CHOOSING Christ as dead men

Excerpts from christia: 28-Sep-92 CHOOSING Christ as dead men Jesse
Carnes@LSUVM.BITNE (1338)

> 2 Corintheans 2 indicates that the unregenerate man who does not possess
the Spirit of God CANNOT receive the things that are from God.

No, it doesn't.  1 Corinthians 2 says that no man can accept the Gospel
without the Spirit of God (to help him).

Two points:
1) It does not say that anyone who is helped by the Spirit of God is
regenerate.  Hence, an unregenerate man can still receive the grace of
the Holy Spirit enabling him to believe.  He is still dead, but the Holy
Spirit aids him to believe.
2) It speaks of unbelief of the Gospel, NOT the inability to receive
grace.  You are misreading the passage.

> Well, if we believe that the Gospel of Jesus and His substitutionary
> death for sins is the Saving message from God, then HOW can DEAD
> unregenerate people believe it without extrinsic aid from God?

Right.  But Scripture does NOT say that one must be regenerated in order
to receive extrinsic aid from God.

> The problem thickens as we see that Paul states also that those who are
> perishing are blinded to the Gospel by the devil so that they cannot
believe it.

Not on their own power, no, but by the grace of God they may, even
before they are regenerated.

> Can ANYONE who is blinded by satan and without POWER to receive
> Spiritual things of God BE ABLE to CHOOSE Christ . . .People do have a
> WILL but can it be employed when blinded and without power to receive
> Spiritual things from God?

This is not the question -- the question is, does God give power to
believe ONLY to the regenerate, or does he, by his grace, enable the
unregenerate to believe?

You see the difference between saying that man is able to believe on his
own power -- a heresy called Pelagianism --, saying that God grants
grace to the unregenerate man so that he has the free will to believe,
and saying that God does not enable anyone to believe nor does he give
any graces until a person is regenerated?

Eric
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.christia
Date:         Wed, 30 Sep 1992 02:42:58 EDT
From:         JEK@NIHCU.BITNET
Subject:      Jerome, Bible translator (30 Sept 420)

JEROME, PRESBYTER, MONK, AND SCHOLAR (30 SEPT 420)

Jerome was the foremost biblical scholar of the ancient Church. His
Latin translation of the Bible from the original Greek and Hebrew
texts, known as the Vulgate version, along with his commentaries and
homilies on the biblical books, have made him a major intellectual
force in the Western Church.

Jerome was born in about 347, and was converted and baptized during
his student days in Rome. On a visit to Trier, he found himself
attracted to the monastic life, which he tested in a brief but
unhappy experience as a hermit in the deserts of Syria.  At Antioch,
he continued his studies in Hebrew and Greek. In 379, he went to
Constantinople where he studied under Gregory of Nazianzus. From 382
to 384 he was secretary to Pope Damasus I, and spiritual director of
many noble Roman ladies who were becoming interested in the monastic
life. It was Damasus who set him the task of making a new
translation of the Bible into Latin -- into the popular form of the
language, hence the name of the translation: the Vulgate.

After the death of Damasus, Jerome returned to the East, and
estabished a monastery at Bethlehem, where he lived and worked until
his death on 30 September 420.

Jerome's irascible disposition, pride of learning, and extravagant
promotion of asceticism involved him in many bitter controversies
over questions of theology and of Bible interpretation.
However, he was candid at times in admitting his failings, and was
never ambitious for either worldly of churchly honors. He was a
militant champion of orthodoxy, a tireless worker, and a scholar of
rare gifts.

PRAYER
   O Lord, thou God of truth, whose word is a lantern to our feet
   and a light upon our path: We give thee thanks for thy servant
   Jerome, and those who, following in his steps, have labored to
   render the Holy Scriptures in the language of the people; and
   we beseech thee that thy Holy Spirit may overshadow us as we
   diligently study the Scriptures, and that Christ, the Living
   Word, may transform us according to thy righteous will; through
   the same Jesus Christ our Lord, who liveth and reigneth with
   thee and the same Spirit, one God, now and ever.
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU
X-Delivery-Notice:  SMTP MAIL FROM does not correspond to sender.
X-Vmsmail-To: SMTP%"CHRISTIA@ASUVM.INRE.ASU.EDU"
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.christia
Date:         Fri, 2 Oct 1992 16:22:43 -0700
From:         "(MARK DRAKE)" <DRAKE@ASUCHM.LA.ASU.EDU>
Subject:      Re: Job Opening

	I think we're getting a little carried away here about the job
opening.  If I remember, it is an opening at a state school.  So they
want an expert on catholism?  How is that different than wanting an
expert on the regency period in england? Or how is that different than
having a specialist in modern american religious trends?  Or someone
who specializes in lung cancer - shouldn't he be simply a cancer
specialist??

	Universities now-a-days look for people who specialize in a
particular subject when they hire faculty.  Usually they are trying to
balance a department or impove a particular program.  Is there
anything wrong with that?

Mark
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.christia
From: timk@world.std.com (Tim King)
Subject: Re: Sinless Perfection
Organization: The World Public Access UNIX, Brookline, MA
Date: Sat, 26 Sep 1992 05:25:15 GMT

JHART@UMASSD.BITNET writes:

>     1 John 3:6 says "No one who lives in him keeps on sinning.  No one
>who continues to sin has either seen him or known him."

>   Does this say there is such a thing as 'sinless perfection'?

Note what follows in verses 10-15:

 ...In this the children of God are manifest, and the children of the devil:
whosoever doeth not righteousness is not of God, neither he that loveth
not his brother.

 For this is the message that ye heard from the beginning, that we should
love one another.  Not as Cain, [who] was of that wicked one, and slew his
brother. And wherefore slew he him? Because his own works were evil, and his
brother's righteous.  Marvel not, my brethren, if the world hate you.

 We know that we have passed from death unto life, because we love the
brethren. He that loveth not [his] brother abideth in death.  Whosoever
hateth his brother is a murderer: and ye know that no murderer hath eternal
life abiding in him...


As a matter of fact verse 6 is located between two discourses on love.  It
would appear that godly love is intimately linked with righteousness.
(Mat 22:37-40; Mk 12:29-31; 2 Pet 1:1-11)

Also, even as christians we are not perfectly in tune to God's will.
(Rom 7:14-25; 1 Jn 1:8-2:2)

I think the key is in a continual submission to God, constantly growing more
and more like Him.  Note Romans 12:2:  "And be not conformed to this world:
but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind, that ye may prove what
[is] that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God."  The word
"transformed" indicates an ongoing process.

It was once explained to me like this:  Our minds have been programmed by
the world (and the ruler of this world, which is Satan).  When we are born
anew in Christ, he replaces our heart, but the old, ungodly programming
is still there.  Now, with His help, we must continually erase the old
programs, replacing them with new ones:  those of His Word.

-TimK
-- 
Tim King                  |  Some of us favor logic in making decisions.
24 Myrtle Street          |  Some, emotions.  I, personally, get very    |\
Dedham, MA 02026          |  emotional about faulty logic! :-)           | >
timk@world.std.com        |                                             <>
Organization: Penn State University
Date: Sat, 26 Sep 1992 21:00:18 EDT
From: Tim Bieling <QAA@psuvm.psu.edu>
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.christia
Subject: Re: Bush/Clinton/Politics

In article <CHRISTIA%92092418213753@ASUACAD.BITNET>,
MKLINE%VDH.BITNET@VTVM2.CC.VT.EDU says:
>
>Subject: Bush/Clinton/Politics
>
>[...]
>3) Have heard on the radio that Clinton had raised over 100 taxes. I think
>   there was a brief blurb in yesterday's 700 club that he was taxing the
>   income from Federal food stamps until the feds heard about it. I think
>   it was stated he wanted to come in with an instant $400 million in
>   taxes.

The number tossed out by the Republicans is 128.  This number is very
mis-leading because, for example, a liquor tax increase was counted as
three - one for beer, one for wine, and one for spirits.  Other "tax
increases" were such things as extending racetrack betting hours, FEE
increases, etc.  If you use the same criteria with Bush, from what I've
read, the number of times Bush increased taxes exceeds Clinton's.  Also
remember that Bush had 4 years, Clinton had 12.  (the original list was
published in the NYT, I believe - I can try to get an actual copy)

While I don't think either candidate is perfect, I see more deception
with the Bush campaign, and I don't trust him.  I see Bush kissing
up to any group which will produce votes for him.  (If you want a good
example of his deception, look into his visit to PSU this past wednesday.
I envision a number of civil lawsuits filed against the university, the
GOP, etc because of what happened here)

Just 4 more weeks.

-Tim
From: GRAHAM%DRCV06.decnet@DRCVAX.AF.MIL (DRCV06::GRAHAM)
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.christia
Subject: Lordship and MacArthur.
Date: 2 Oct 92 16:39:00 GMT
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU
X-Delivery-Notice:  SMTP MAIL FROM does not correspond to sender.

I have read MacArthur's book and listened to a long series of his sermons
on the same topic.  It is good in places, but contains some of the most
insidious works theology I have ever seen.

There is no difference between Jesus being your Lord and your Saviour.  He
is both and there is no separation between the roles because they are the
same.  The concept of "making Jesus Lord of your life" is as much works as
would be doing good things to earn salvation.  You cannot make Jesus
anything, either He is your adopted brother by the work of God, outsied of
you, or He is not.  This Lordship stuff is subtle and very dangerous.

Is Jesus lord of your life, if you are born again, of course He is.  It is
not something you do, or even are, it simply is.  Works of any type, in any
form, have nothing to do with whether Jesus is lord of your life or not.

Dan Graham
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU
X-Delivery-Notice:  SMTP MAIL FROM does not correspond to sender.
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.christia
Date:         Wed, 30 Sep 1992 08:51:52 -0400
From:         Eric James Ewanco <ewanco@MLO.DEC.COM>
Subject:      Re: Right Standing with God?

Excerpts from christia: 30-Sep-92 Right Standing with God? Jesse Irwin
Carnes@LSUVM (571)

> I have a question for you guys :

> "What puts you in right standing with God ... OR WHAT does God demand of
> us so that we are not under Divine condemnation?

> You have F O U R choices :

Too bad, I am answering this as an essay question.

God demands that we be cleansed and purified of all sin and
unrighteousness.  The only way that we can be cleansed is by the
sacrifice of Christ through His blood, not by our own works.  Through
the blood of Christ, our sins are removed, cleansed, blotted out, so
that we are really and truly righteous in God's eyes.  Then we may enter
the presence of God in heaven.

This cleansing comes through saving faith in Jesus and repentance.
Without repentance there is no forgiveness of sins; without forgivness
of sins, there is only condemnation.

Saving faith is not mere belief in Christ as the Son of God -- even the
demons believe, and shudder.  Saving faith is not merely praying the
sinner's prayer.  Saving faith is submission to the Lordship of Jesus
Christ and perseverence through trial.  "We do not want you to become
lazy, but to imitate those who through faith and patience inherit what
has been promised."  (Hebrews 5:12). "Watch your life and doctrine
closely.  Persevere in them, because if you do, you will save both
yourself and your hearers." (1 Tim 4:16).  "See to it, brothers, that
none of you has a sinful, unbelieving heart that turns away from the
living God.  But encourage one another daily, as long as it is called
Today, so that none of you may be hardened by sin's deceitfulness.  We
have come to share in Christ if we hold firmly till the end the
confidence we had at first." (Heb 3:14).  "Consider therefore the
kindness and sterrness of God: sterrness to those who fell, but kindness
to you, provided you continuein his kindness.  Otherwise, you also will
be cut off."  (Rom 11:22).  "He must not be a recent convert, orhe may
become conceited and fall under the same judgment as the devil." (1 Tim
3:6).  Saving faith also produces good deeds, as James teaches.  The
good deeds "complete" our faith; without good deeds, our faith is dead,
and does us no good.  Christ tells us in the Gospels that those who do
not bear fruit will be cut off and cast into the fire.

Eric