HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: garrett@Ingres.COM (IF YOU CANNOT CONVINCE THEM, CONFUSE THEM)
Newsgroups: talk.politics.misc,alt.activism
Subject: Re: Phil H-B's delusions (Was: "New Right" Libertarians?)
Summary: Econ 101
Date: 27 Jan 93 02:25:37 GMT
Organization: ASK Computer Systems, Ingres Product Division
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.4-b1

In article <1993Jan26.035805.19563@microsoft.com>, leecr@microsoft.com (Lee Crocker)                          writes...
>hallam@zeus02.desy.de (Phill Hallam-Baker) writes:
>Man, where do you get these wild fantasies of yours?  Have you ever
>even been to a meeting of the Libertarian party?  Have you even read
>the program or our newsletter?  I have yet to meet one who wouldn't
>puke at the very thought of associating with Pat Buchanan or any other
>Right-wing Wacko like him.
>Do we want the same things?  Get a clue.  Does Buchanan want a world
>where all races and nationalities are free to travel across borders,
[...]
>Does he want
>a world where the lowliest farmer can hold onto his 4 acres of land
>no matter how many outsiders want to sacrifice it to the "public"?

>It is a common misconception among political circles that Libs are
>just "Republicans into drugs".  I think of myself more as a Democrat
>who passed Econ 101.  I would no sooner associate with the radical

If you think a farmer can both live and feed himself on 4 acres of
land, then maybe you should take Econ 101 over again.

>Lee Daniel Crocker    | Free minds; free bodies; free trade.
>leecr@microsoft.com   | Libertarian Party  1-800-682-1776

-Garrett
Xref: sparky talk.politics.misc:69787 alt.activism:21352
From: cramer@optilink.COM (Clayton Cramer)
Newsgroups: talk.politics.misc,ca.politics
Subject: Re: safer sex question
Date: 26 Jan 93 19:04:13 GMT
Organization: Optilink Corporation, Petaluma, CA

More evidence of the sensible, normal, deeply meaningful and loving
relationships that homosexuals engage in, from soc.motss:

In article <1993Jan21.173839.28696@lclark.edu>, snodgras@lclark.edu (Bil Snodgrass) writes:
# My roommate on occasion would suck off 30 to 40 men a night at the Wilsonville
# restop!  For years.  He jokes everytime we go their that his car veers right
# trying to go in.....
# 
# My roommate is very negative.......
# 
# It is funny that people play with these numbers....yet get in their car
# with no problem......
# 
# Bil


-- 
Clayton E. Cramer {uunet,pyramid}!optilink!cramer  My opinions, all mine!
"When freedom destroys order, order will destroy freedom." -- Eric Hoffer
Not a goal, just a statement of reality.
Newsgroups: talk.politics.misc,alt.politics.clinton,alt.president.clinton
From: ataylor@nmsu.edu (Nosy)
Subject: Re: "It's the economy, stupid!"
Organization: NMSU Computer Science
	<1993Jan20.133520.2550@linus.mitre.org>
	<C16q75.JpI@newsserver.technet.sg>
	<1993Jan21.144844.18829@linus.mitre.org>
	<ATAYLOR.93Jan21140236@gauss.nmsu.edu>
	<15597.2b5f3fb5@ohstpy.mps.ohio-state.edu>
Distribution: usa
Date: Sun, 24 Jan 1993 22:09:45 GMT

In article <15597.2b5f3fb5@ohstpy.mps.ohio-state.edu> vancleef@ohstpy.mps.ohio-state.edu writes:
<   > 
<   > 	With Bill in the White House, we have no problems
<   > 	anymore. 
<   > 
<   > 	My TV set told me so.

<   Is it me, or do these whining Republicans sound just like us liberals did
<   during 12 years of Reagenbush :D

	Uh, Garrett, hate to break it to you, but I'm a registered
	Independent and always have been.

	And my TV told me nothing but Bad News for 12 years....it
	*never* told me that the White House was going to fix
	anything.

	Unlike today....

	In fact, I just saw a child with a runny nose; but I'm
	sure Mr. Bill will send a federal grant to hire someone
	to help the parent wipe the child's nose....




Xref: sparky talk.politics.misc:70116 alt.pagan:15939 talk.religion.misc:27698 talk.abortion:58255
From: alizard@tweekco.uucp (A.Lizard)
Newsgroups: talk.politics.misc,alt.pagan,talk.religion.misc,talk.abortion
Subject: Re: Freedom of Religion
Date: Tue, 26 Jan 93 13:07:01 PST
Organization: Tweek-Com Systems BBS, Moraga, CA (510) 631-0615

redsonja@olias.linet.org (Red Sonja) writes:

> And now, pagans, what do we do about the computer game Darklands which
> is actually extolling this activity, proudly cites the HexenHammer (as
> it was called in Germany) as a reference, and turns seeking out and 
> destroying witches and pagan altars into a game?!??? Has anybody seen
> this game yet??? I was stationed in Germany for a while and this is my
> first year back, and my fiancee purchased the game as a gift. Supposedly
> it re-creates medieval Germany. This particular aspect of the game is
> extremely disturbing. It is presented in a very jaundiced and intolerant
> way in the manual as well.
> 
> Suggestions very welcome!! 

The name and address of the manufacturer would be helpful, including
electronic mail addresses, if any. The names of the programmers
would also be helpful. (home addresses especially useful in this case)

Perhaps it's time for us pagans to do some hunting of our own.
                                         A.Lizard

-------------------------------------------------------------------
A.Lizard Internet Addresses:
alizard%tweekco%boo@PacBell.COM        (preferred)
PacBell.COM!boo!tweekco!alizard (bang path for above)
alizard@gentoo.com (backup)
PGP2.1 public key available on request.
Newsgroups: talk.politics.misc,alt.sex,soc.college
From: k044477@hobbes.kzoo.edu (Jamie R. McCarthy)
Subject: Re: Shocked Beyond ALL BELIEF!!!!!
Organization: Kalamazoo College
Date: Thu, 28 Jan 1993 02:35:58 GMT

leecr@microsoft.com (Lee Crocker) writes:
>>Would you be more shocked to learn that prostitution is legal here in stuffy 
>>old Britain? It's only *soliciting* that is illegal.
>
>Even stranger is Amsterdam: prostitution is legal, solicitation is
>legal, but _renting a room for the purpose of prostitution_ is not.
>This latter law is largely ignored, but it is occasionally used to
>shut down unclean or unscrupulous brothels.

The law in Germany, I believe, is that prostitution is illegal only in
cities of less than 10,000 population.  Kind of a bizarre rule.  I hear
it's common for small town governments to try to keep their census
figures under the magic number, to keep the prostitutes from moving in.
-- 
 Jamie McCarthy      Internet: k044477@kzoo.edu      AppleLink: j.mccarthy
 "A degree in Computer Science from Berkeley didn't much qualify me to uphold
  the banner of Chaos against the forces of Order."              - R. Zelazny
Newsgroups: talk.politics.misc,talk.politics.theory,alt.fan.rush-limbaugh
From: blh@uiboise.idbsu.edu (Broward L. Horne)
Subject: Re: WELLLLL! IT'S DAY ONE. WHERE'S THE PLAN??? 
Date: Fri, 22 Jan 93 15:48:24 MST
X-Received: by usenet.pa.dec.com; id AA17570; Fri, 22 Jan 93 16:53:06 -0800
X-Received: by inet-gw-2.pa.dec.com; id AA04173; Fri, 22 Jan 93 16:53:04 -0800
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	(16.6/16.2) id AA03449; Fri, 22 Jan 93 15:48:24 -0700
X-To: talk.politics.misc.usenet
X-Mailer: Elm [revision: 66.25]

> 
> In a previous article, bob1@cos.com (Bob Blackshaw) says:
> >
> >and acted together, like I said below, all talk no action. If you
> >are so damn smart and have all the answers, how come I didn't see
> >your name on my ballot?                     
     
	    I was pretending my name was "Hilary".

	    Go with a working plan, I always say.

             

Xref: sparky talk.politics.misc:70199 alt.peeves:19701 talk.politics.medicine:740 soc.culture.usa:10219 soc.culture.african.american:14432 sci.med:24540
From: zursch@whizkid.wpd.sgi.com (Jeffrey B. Zurschmeide)
Newsgroups: talk.politics.misc,alt.peeves,talk.politics.medicine,soc.culture.usa,soc.culture.african.american,sci.med
Subject: Re: Statement of President Clinton on Health Care Reform Task Force
Date: 26 Jan 93 23:12:47 GMT
Reply-To: zursch@whizkid.wpd.sgi.com (Jeffrey B. Zurschmeide)
Organization: Silicon Graphics, Inc.

In article <C1H6AK.2In@umassd.edu> pmsc13sg@UMASSD.EDU writes:
>Yeah, that's right. The government should steal money from those who 
>have it and give it to those who don't...

Spoken like a true University student. The only sad thing is that 
University students are supposed to be idealistic and humanitarian,
while you are merely grumbling over the thought that some of 
daddy's money might have to go to taxes rather than to buy you
some more CDs and a nicer car. 

The for-profit health care system
in this country is manifestly broken. The insurance companies 
providing "health care coverage" are little better than your average
coke dealer. I've been steadily employed since leaving college and 
I've never had more than the most minor occasions to use my
benefits. (The odd wound requiring sutures or a trip to get my 
prescription for my contact lenses updated.) And even though I
belong to one of the better "self-funded" plans, I have yet to ever
have the insurance company pay a claim without sending me 
some kind of nasty note disputing the nature of the claim or
my coverage under some small print. It's ludicrous.  

I took EMT training a short while ago, and the guy who taught
it was an ex-paramedic. He told us that he tries to get everyone
he teaches or knows to get a medic-alert bracelet with their 
insurance information on it, because without it, you simply will
not get treated until someone plunks down a card for you. He said
that this is especially important for non-white people, who routinely
die in the ER for lack of care because they don't assume that you
can pay or have insurance.

The point is, you will pay for it one way or another. You can either
shut up and pay taxes and get some warm fuzzy somewhere in
your being that you are doing your part to keep your fellow humans
out of poverty and degradation, or you can work to achieve some 
Libertarian fantasy world. Which, now that I think about it, isn't
such a bad thing for you to do, since it will keep you out of the way
of those of us who have real work to do. But even if you achieve 
some kind of Libertarian/Feudal utopia, you'll pay for security
*from* the poor if you don't pay for security *for* the poor. Louis
XVI found that out the hard way....   

Am I the only one who gets bored stiff listening to Libertarian 
drivel all the time?  You'd think that we were living under maoism
in this country the way these bozos whine about everything...Bill
Clinton starts talking about basic health coverage and they start
going on like he's gonna come by and steal the food right outta
their children's mouths. Get a grip and grow up, people.

JZ

 
Xref: sparky talk.politics.misc:70029 alt.fan.rush-limbaugh:13940
From: kane@buast7.bu.edu (Hot Young Star)
Newsgroups: talk.politics.misc,alt.politics.homosexuality
Subject: Re: This Shall Not Stand!
Keywords: homosexuality
Date: 28 Jan 93 22:16:06 GMT
Followup-To: talk.politics.misc
Organization: Astronomy Department, Boston University, Boston, MA, USA

In article <Jan.28.10.02.43.1993.2520@romulus.rutgers.edu>
kaldis@romulus.rutgers.edu (Theodore A. Kaldis) writes:

&>The homosexuals are not going to prevail in this society, nosirree!
&>Now, whatever consenting adults want to do behind closed doors is
&>entirely their business, and there really isn't much anyone can do
&>about it without eroding the right to privacy.  But many homosexuals
&>want much more than this.  It seems that they _DO_ want special
&>privileges at the expense of society in general.

Ted, you never respond to my responses, but I thought I'd try anyhow:

Please enumerate these "special privileges" you are talking about.

Brian
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
kane@{buast7,astro}.bu.edu (Hot Young Star) Astronomy Dept, Boston University,
Boston, MA 02215. True personal salvation is achieved by absolute faith in
ones true self.
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
Newsgroups: talk.politics.misc
From: VEAL@utkvm1.utk.edu (David Veal)
Subject: Re: Universal Coverage != Socialized Medicine!
Organization: University of Tennessee Division of Continuing Education
Date: Wed, 27 Jan 1993 22:56:33 GMT

In article <1993Jan27.204852.20253@news.columbia.edu> gld@cunixb.cc.columbia.edu (Gary L Dare) writes:
>jpr1@ns1.cc.lehigh.edu (James P. Reynolds) writes:
>>
>>Why do the conservatives think that universal health insurance 
>>is socialized medicine?  Clinton is not thinking of having the 
>>government employ doctors.
>
>It seems like that's too subtle a distinction for some Americans.

      Distinctions sometimes get so subtle that people decide the
distinction isn't worth noting.  In either case the doctors end up
getting paid via the government, and that is what people object to.
(Among other things, of course.)

------------------------------------------------------------------------
David Veal Univ. of Tenn. Div. of Cont. Education Info. Services Group
PA146008@utkvm1.utk.edu  (Mail to VEAL@utkvm1.utk.edu will bounce.)
"For every action there is an equal, and opposite, government program"
Xref: sparky talk.politics.misc:70168 misc.legal:23442
From: thf2@ellis.uchicago.edu (Ted Frank)
Newsgroups: talk.politics.misc,misc.legal
Subject: Re: Zoe Baird
Date: 27 Jan 93 07:24:39 GMT
Reply-To: thf2@midway.uchicago.edu
Followup-To: talk.politics.misc
Distribution: usa
Organization: University of Chicago

In article <1736@tecsun1.tec.army.mil> riggs@descartes.tec.army.mil (Bill Riggs) writes:
>The Republicans put loads and loads of women up for
>the US Senate in 1990 - some of the best Congresswomen in ther Republican party
>risked their political careers to get a shot at a Senate seat. (All natives
>of the great state of Illinois should be familiar with Lynn Martin's
>debacle.)  

I think you're forgetting the main reason bunches of Republicans got
creamed in 1990.  It has to do with the acronym RML.

Followups to talk.politics.misc.
-- 
ted frank                     | thf2@ellis.uchicago.edu 
standard disclaimers          | void where prohibited
the university of chicago law school, chicago, illinois 60637
Xref: sparky talk.politics.misc:70192 alt.peeves:19685 talk.politics.medicine:739 soc.culture.usa:10215 soc.culture.african.american:14427 sci.med:24538
From: donb@igor.tamri.com (Don Baldwin)
Newsgroups: talk.politics.misc,alt.peeves,talk.politics.medicine,soc.culture.usa,soc.culture.african.american,sci.med
Subject: Re: Statement of President Clinton on Health Care Reform Task Force
Date: 27 Jan 93 20:46:05 GMT
Organization: TOSHIBA America MRI, South San Francisco, CA

In article <1993Jan27.073404.6712@genie.slhs.udel.edu>
starr@genie.slhs.udel.edu (Tim Starr) writes:
>}The for-profit health care system
>}in this country is manifestly broken.
>
>Yes, if you mean broken by statist interventions.  No, if you mean it's a
>market failure.

Feh.  If anything has ruined the health system, it's a combination of
doctors' greed and spurious lawsuits by patients.

>}But even if you achieve 
>}some kind of Libertarian/Feudal utopia, you'll pay for security
>}*from* the poor if you don't pay for security *for* the poor. Louis
>}XVI found that out the hard way....   
>
>State medicine bears far more resemblance to pre-Revolutionary France than
>would a free market.

Really?  In what way?

>}Am I the only one who gets bored stiff listening to Libertarian 
>}drivel all the time?
>
>Nope, and you certaintly aren't the only one who doesn't pay enough attention
>to get it, either.

I think I "get it"; I like the Libertarian stands on civil liberties; however,
there are several areas (e.g., against anti-discrimination laws) where I
feel you need some work.

    don
Xref: sparky talk.politics.misc:69805 misc.legal:23301
From: jmann@vineland.pubs.stratus.com (Jim Mann)
Newsgroups: talk.politics.misc
Subject: Re: Libertarians
Date: 25 Jan 1993 21:17:34 GMT
Organization: Stratus Computer Inc, Marlboro MA
Reply-To: jmann@vineland.pubs.stratus.com
NNTP-Posting-Host: gondolin.pubs.stratus.com

In article <1993Jan25.182436.29796@nntpd.lkg.dec.com>  
edp@math.zk3.dec.com (Eric Postpischil) writes:
> In article <C1F34B.B77@dcs.glasgow.ac.uk>, jack@dcs.glasgow.ac.uk  
(Jack
> Campin) writes:
> 10.  UNIONS AND COLLECTIVE BARGAINING
> 
> We support the right of free persons to voluntarily establish,
> associate in, or not associate in, labor unions.  An employer  
should
> have the right to recognize, or refuse to recognize, a union as the
> collective bargaining agent of some, or all, of its employees.

I see. Libertarians support the right for workers to unionize but
also support the right of employers to bust unions. It sounds
like a number of other Libertarian positions: it sounds nice
in theory but it really doesn't work in practice.  Unless there 
are at least some restrictions on union busting, unions have
a real hard time forming.  The employer holds almost all the
cards.

Note: I say this despite the fact that I really don't like most
unions. I wouldn't want to join one myself and I think these
days they often do more harm than good. (Take a look at the
recent newspaper strike in Pittsburgh. In attempting to 
save unnecessary jobs, the union cost yet more jobs by 
forcing one of the local papers out of business.)  On the other
hand, I think the workers have a right to unionize and that
we need at least a few basic laws to prevent the employer
from busting the union.

--
Jim Mann            
Stratus Computer   jmann@vineland.pubs.stratus.com  

Newsgroups: talk.politics.misc,alt.president.clinton
From: cindy@solan10.solan.unit.no (Cynthia Kandolf)
Subject: Re: Madeleine Murray O'Hare
Followup-To: talk.politics.misc,alt.atheism,talk.religion.misc
Organization: /home/ludviga/cindy/.organization
	<Jan.15.22.05.57.1993.26003@romulus.rutgers.edu>
	<1993Jan21.162625.17617@aber.ac.uk>
	<Jan.22.07.10.37.1993.754@romulus.rutgers.edu>
Date: 22 Jan 93 21:19:12

Ted Kaldis says another weird one:
>> Is this the same Ted "Tyre-Iron" Kaldis
>
>This is America here.  In this country, the word is spelled "tire".
>You Brits do as you like, but if you are going to address us Yanks,
>please do us the courtesy of spelling the words as we would perceive
>them to be spelled correctly.

No, this is Norway here.  I checked.  In this country, the word is
spelled "dekk".  You folks over on that side of the ocean do what you
like, but if you're going to set the distribution to "world", please
do us the courtesy of writing your posts in all of our native
languages, not just your own.  Thank you.

-Cindy Kandolf
 cindy@solan.unit.no
 Trondheim, Norway
From: cramer@optilink.COM (Clayton Cramer)
Newsgroups: talk.politics.misc
Subject: Re: CDC Summary 1/22/93
Date: 25 Jan 93 23:47:25 GMT
Organization: Optilink Corporation, Petaluma, CA

[From...]
#                       AIDS Daily Summary
#                        January 22, 1993 
# "Some Library Patrons Want Gay-Lesbian Magazine Removed" United Press 
# International (01/21/93)
#      Goshen, Ohio--The gay-lesbian magazine The Advocate has evoked  
# controversy in a small Cincinnati-area community, where patrons  of a 
# local library want officials to remove the publication from  library 
# shelves.  Dave Macksam, director of the Clermont County  Public Library, 
# said three people have filed written requests to  have library staff 
# examine the magazine.  He said, "We try to  look at reading interests on 
# a community basis.  It was the  opinion of the staff at the branch that 
# there was a reading  audience for it."  One of the complaints about The 
# Advocate was  that it was "inappropriate material" for the library.  
# However,  Barbara Galik, assistant university librarian for information 
# and research services at Miami University and Northern Kentucky  
# University, argued, "The articles in there are quite good.  If  you want 
# up-to-date information on AIDS and AIDS research that is the place to 
# get it.  We've had no complaints."  Betsy Gressler,  president of 
# Stonewall Cincinnati, a gay and lesbian group, said  the magazine does 
# not contain sexually explicit photos or  advertisements, but does 
# provide information on fashion, music,  and books, and also shows 
# positive homosexual role models.  "In a lot of rural areas, having 
# access to magazines such as The  Advocate is the only link to the gay 
# and lesbian community that a lot of people have.  I think any attempt to 
# have it removed is an attempt at censorship," said Gressler. 

Gosh, I can hardly wait for the library to subscribe to (effectively,
subsidize) whatever sleazy rag Aryan Nations puts out. :-)  My, won't the
screeching be different then!

Public libraries, like public schools, make this sort of conflict
inevitable.  We would be better off without the government's 
involvement.
-- 
Clayton E. Cramer {uunet,pyramid}!optilink!cramer  My opinions, all mine!
"When freedom destroys order, order will destroy freedom." -- Eric Hoffer
Not a goal, just a statement of reality.
Xref: sparky talk.politics.misc:69235 alt.conspiracy:14481 alt.activism:21198
Newsgroups: talk.politics.misc,alt.conspiracy,alt.activism
Subject: Re: Destruction of the U.S.
From: bpharmon@miavx1.acs.muohio.edu
Date: 22 Jan 93 09:13:32 -0500
Organization: Miami University Academic Computer Service"

In article <C11xyo.Hss@apollo.hp.com>, nelson_p@apollo.hp.com (Peter Nelson) writes:

> 
>   Why has South America remained poor and politically oppressive/unstable
>   despite the fact that it achieved independence from Spain only decades
>   after the US achieved independence from England, and despite a wealth
>   of natural resources?   Mainly because of cultural differences.  

	..hmm well yeah, But The US had a realy big adavantage of receiving
the most fertile and prosperous frontier on the Northern Continent (but not as
large as Canada's -- just better for exploitation)

> 
>   The world over, those nations that were former colonies of Spain/Portugal
>   and internalized their values and religion (S/C America, Cuba, the
>   Phillipines) have remained poor, unstable, dictatorial, and easily
>   exploited by their neighbors.  

	There may be  some dynamics other than culture here.  One could say,
for example, that the Philipines have remained poor,etc. BECAUSE they were
exploited by their "neighbors"  -- The US, Spain (when it was a colony), Japan
(WWII) etc. etc.


> 
>   So my point is not that English culture is *better* than Iberian
>   culture; only that I and most USA-ians and Canadians are better
>   off under this culture than we would likely be under Iberian
>   culture.   So I certainly don't favor any union with Mexico.

	Well, we are for now...


=======================================================================
Brian Harmon           "I will have no inellectual training.
Miami University	  Knowledge is ruin to my young men."
Oxford, Ohio 45056  		-Adolf Hitler
(513) 529-2063	        
 yeech! ack!	       "Politics has no relations to morals"
  ungh!				-Niccolo Michiavelli
--------------bpharmon@miavx1.acs.muohio.edu--------------------------

Newsgroups: talk.politics.misc,misc.legal,rec.arts.tv
From: m23364@mwunix (James Meritt)
Subject: Selling  of tv rights
Organization: MITRE Corporation, McLean VA
Distribution: usa
Date: Thu, 21 Jan 1993 15:38:39 GMT


How did the Clinton Campaign manage to sell exclusive rights to something happening
at a national monument on public land to a private business (HBO, for example)?


--
James W. Meritt:  m23364@mwunix.mitre.org - or - jmeritt@mitre.org
The opinions above are mine.  If anyone else wants to share them, fine.
They may say so if they wish. The facts "belong" to noone and simply are.