HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: elee74l@Rosie.UH.EDU
Subject: Re: homophobes sabotaging motss
Reply-To: elee74l@Rosie.UH.EDU
Organization: University of Houston
Date: Wed, 29 Jul 1992 06:05:29 GMT

In article <1992Jul29.050644.25185@wam.umd.edu>, jns@wam.umd.edu (J. N. Shaumeyer) writes:
>
>Jess Anderson (anderson@macc.wisc.edu) wrote:
> 
>> ....  In light of the recent invasions,
>> I've adopted policiy of hitting n on all cross-posted
>> aricles, irrespective of topic, author, or newsgroups
>> involved.  That means about 80% of the content of soc.motss
>> for the past couple weeks.
>
>During the height of the I-post-everything-here wars,
>I kept statistics on motss articles, in several
>categories.  [Oh, c'mon, I *am* a scientist, at least
>sometimes.]  That seemed a period of particularly
>bad pollution of our pure spring waters.
>
>Of the 683 articles posted between 0634 [GMT] 15 June 
>and 2326 [GMT] 20 June, 26% were cross-posted.
>
>[By *my* reckoning, only 12.7% of the total motss volume
> was devoid of discernable motss relevance; the rest of
> the results are as yet unpublished.]
>
>--jns

So what's so bad about soc.motss's articles being cross posted.
Don't we want to communicate and share our commons with groups like
alt.gay.political and soc.bi?
Haven't we been advocating the public to accept us as who we are?

If it wasn't for the cross posting of soc.motss and soc.bi, I would have
never heard of this newsgroup.

Ken   elee74l@jetson.uh.edu
From: mara@panix.com (Mara Chibnik)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: the b-word
Date: 21 Jul 92 15:12:09 GMT
Organization: (getting there)


I've lost track of what's being discussed here.  

In article <1992Jul21.060314.15058@macc.wisc.edu> anderson@macc.wisc.edu (Jess Anderson) writes:
>
A while ago, anderson@macc.wisc.edu (Jess Anderson) wrote:
   >>> If the term really applies *only* to hostiles, are any of
   >>> *those* people included in your highest personal esteem?  If
   >>> not, then I think your point is deflated.  And if so, then
   >>> why are you holding crud in high esteem?

and tdober@llnl.gov answered:
  >>Jess, it sounds to me like you're saying the term "breeder" has only
  >>one meaning: the meaning you intend it to have. 
Jess:
>Not me -- I don't use it, remember?

TDO:
  >>You say, "If the term
  >>really applies *only* to hostiles...". 
Jess:
>"If..."

TDO:
  >>My question is, do the non- hostiles know that? Since they haven't
  >>been privy to this whole discussion, I suspect that the answer is "No".
  >>*You* may intend it to apply only to hostiles, but each person who
  >>hears you applies their own set of perceptual filters to every word you
  >>say. You can control what you say; you cannot control what they hear.
 >That's not strictly true, but let's get off it.

I'm not interested in pursuing the question of how much control one
has over what others hear in one's words.  But I am interested in the
question of whether the insult reaches its target.  Steve Dyer's
comment-- that the strength of the insult comes from the manifest
pejorative in a term designating what is normally greatly admired--
is very perceptive.  But I'm still not sure that it's clear who is
meant when the word is applied.

Do celibate priests consider themselves breeders?  Pro-natalists
that they are, they certainly ought to.  But if you yell out at
them, "!@#$ !@#$ Breeders!" as you pass them on the street, will
they understand?

TDO, again:
  >>If I remember correctly, Tim mentioned that Ailsa has a problem with
  >>"breeder" as an epithet. I would not place her particularly high on my
  >>list of "people who need enlightenment (whether they want it or not)".
 >She said she objected to it.  But she's not straight, and I
 >have limited my discourse to them.

But why?  If I have use for an insult-- any insult-- I want it to
have sufficient focus to "work" as an insult.  If it seems to
designate people to whom I'm not referring, and doesn't seem to
designate people to whom I want to refer, what good is it?

-- 

  Mara Chibnik
  mara@panix.com                Life is too important to be taken seriously.
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: rjwill6@PacBell.COM (Rod Williams)
Subject: Re: Clinton in Seattle
Organization: Pacific * Bell, San Francisco
Date: Tue, 28 Jul 1992 02:52:16 GMT

> waveland@milton.u.washington.edu (Eric Holeman) writes:
>> tardis@u.washington.edu writes:

>> His answers to these last question frighten me. He appears
>> to only support Gay and Lesbians only as the absence of discrimation.
>> We then are no longer productive members of American society.
>
>Not that the government has EVER perceived us as such, mind you.  
>
>I neither ask nor expect the majority in this country to love us.  
>All I want is a fair deal.  Yes, Clinton offers the bare minimum
>in that regard, but it's still a step forward.

I did get to shake Clinton's hand here in San Francisco
this afternoon.  I had planned to ask him to clarify his
position on educating children about sexual orientation,
but...uh...it was rather crowded and noisy and he couldn't
have heard me through all the screams anyway. :-)

Maybe next time...
-- 
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
rod williams -=- pacific bell -=- san francisco -=- rjwill6@pacbell.com
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: pst@csd4.csd.uwm.edu (Peter Stephen Thomas Iii)
Subject: Re: RFD: Still in print?
Organization: Computing Services Division, University of Wisconsin - Milwaukee
Date: Thu, 30 Jul 1992 19:37:25 GMT

In article <70615@apple.Apple.COM> stevenso@Apple.COM (David Stevenson) writes:
>kgdykes@thinkage.on.ca (Ken Dykes) guesses:
>>>
>>>(Perhaps Steve just did too much LDS in the '60s. ;-)
>>                                  ^^^ Long Distance Sex ??
>                                   ^^^ Long Dong Silver ???
                                     No, silly boy!!!

				     Latter Day Saints!!!

Peter Thomas




-- 
"I'll lose my beard when they shave it from my cold, dead face!"

Quote from the Razor's Anonymous Handbook

Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: katbea@auto-trol.com (Kathy Beatty)
Subject: Re: Noun Sex (wasRe: Family Values (Clinton/Gore))
Organization: Auto-trol Technology Corporation -- Denver, Colorado
X-Newsreader: Tin 1.1 PL3
Date: Wed, 22 Jul 1992 04:31:48 GMT

mdrayton@hpmwtd.sr.hp.com (Mike Drayton) writes:
:  katbea@auto-trol.com (Kathy Beatty) writes:
: >mdrayton@hpmwtd.sr.hp.com (Mike Drayton) writes:
: >:  katbea@auto-trol.com (Kathy Beatty) writes:
: >: 
: >: > Rep. Joseph Kennedy III ... talking about how the Republikans
: >: > have white, country club values that in no way represent most
: >: > of our families' values. 
: 
: >: So what color country club values do the Kennedys have?
: >: (Yes, I'm a lifelong Democrat, but I can't let this slip by.)
: 
: >Well, at least some of them seem to have values that include ideas
: >like public service. 
: 
: >Holy shit, I'm defending rich white boyz!  8^) 
: ----------
: That's OK, you're having this conversation with a middle-class
: white boy -- ideologically just as bad, and without the leisure to
: do public service!
: 
And notice that I answered the question I wanted to answer, not the
question you asked. So, in answer to your question - I don't know,
but I bet it isn't pink!


Kathy
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: steven@cray.com (Steven Levine)
Subject: Re: sex with gay and bi men (part 2)
Organization: Cray Research, Inc.
Date: 30 Jul 92 10:27:59 CDT

In article <1992Jul30.022427.24120@cis.ohio-state.edu> amz@iguana.cis.ohio-state.edu (Arnold M Zwicky) writes:

>arnold (who originally thought this was going to be a short
>          chatty thing, and who worries how long it will go on)
>  [irreverent echoes of the shape-note song here:
>     "how long, dear savior, oh how long
>      will this bright hour delay?"]

Not so irreverent, and leading to the response, three verses
later:

      "his own soft hand shall wipe the tears
       from every weeping eye
       and pains and groans and griefs and fears
       and death itself shall die."

But whose soft hand?  Gabe's?  Biff's?  Do we look to one or the other
for salvation?  Much as I seem always to be looking for Biff, I'd
put my money on Gabe.

--
steven levine
steven@cray.com




Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: michael@resonex.com (Michael Bryan)
Subject: Re: Gay Beer
Keywords: gay, marketing, beer
Organization: Resonex Inc., Sunnyvale CA
Date: Wed, 29 Jul 1992 08:23:43 GMT

In article <manz.712354796@ee.ualberta.ca> manz@ee.ualberta.ca (Brett {Druid Queen} Manz) writes:
>  Thanks to Brick Brewing, gays and lesbians can now drink beer 
>with pride.
>
>  The Waterloo brewery is producing a new beer for the gay 
>community.  It's called Pride and is sold in bottles and on draft 
>in about 25 gay and lesbian bars across southern Ontario.

This reminds me of a "commercial" on Saturday Night Live, which was a
spoof of all the women-in-bikini beer ads.  Two guys are walking
through a house one of them just bought.  They get to the pool in the
backyard, which is run down, cracked, overgrown with weeds, and dry.
The new owner turns on the water, which results in sparkle special
effects, and the pool suddenly fills up and looks wonderful.

Then this Adonis lookalike comes out of the water and says something
like "You boys looking for something wet?"  Cut to various shots of
half a dozen gorgeous men wearing tight bikini briefs, having fun with
our two lucky boys, and beer being passed around.  Eventual closeup on
the beer, which says something like "Schmidt's Gay", and an announcer
saying "If you're gay, and you drink beer, then you'll love Schmidt's
Gay."

And now a real "gay" beer.  Life imitating art...

-- 
Michael Bryan        michael@resonex.com                     |     ,_,
"Pretenders I meet are making a trail along the way.         |    /oo \
They say that they know how to show me a path to guide my    |    <>__|
way to truth..." --- David York, "The Quiet of a Candle"     |    |  U|
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: henry@ADS.COM (Henry Mensch)
Subject: Re: the b-word
Organization: Advanced Decision Systems; a div of Booz, Allen & Hamilton
Date: Thu, 23 Jul 1992 18:36:11 GMT

jakec@ralvmm.vnet.ibm.com (Jake Coughlin) wrote: 
->private, get down on your knees and give me 50! 

even if those are centimeters, that's still a lot.

ever been called a "size queen" before? :)

--
# henry mensch / booz, allen & hamilton, inc.  / <henry@ads.com>
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: rdonahue@spdcc.com (Bob Donahue)
Subject: Re: motss.com
Organization: insert anything here
Date: Thu, 30 Jul 1992 16:36:09 GMT

shore@tc.cornell.edu writes:
>I had considered going, but decided not to because

>4)  Few women would be there

	What density would be required to make this reason satisfied?
It's sort of a self-defeating argument.  While admittedly, USENET (and 
motss) is severely male-dominated, I can't think of anyway to even things
out except to set a limit to the number of men allowed to attend, or
for all the womyn who opt not to attend because of the paucity of womyn
there to show up, thereby making things that much closer to the ideal.
Seems to me the latter makes more sense.

	If Ellen chooses to bid for Chicago for motss.con.6 for next
year (and I hope she does), perhaps that will make next year's con more
inviting to the womyn who read soc.motss.  It would be VERY nice to
find a solution to this annual problem.  It would be nice if some
of the womyn here would offer suggestions/insight/ideas that could
lead to a resolution of  this dilemma.

	This circularity brings to mind something that happened in
high-school.  Every year when they talked about courses for next year
they went through the list of options in assembly and for sevearl courses
said "well it's in the book, but no one ever chooses it, so we never
offer it".  You needed 12 people to get a course offered.  I found 12
people for one of those courses one year, we sat thru the assembly,
and presto! 4 people changed their minds because they saw it as a 
futile effort.  And the status quo was unchanged...

	Status quo's are rarely if ever that wonderful.

BBC
From: nelson@reed.edu (Nelson Minar)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: the new innocent
Date: 30 Jul 92 04:45:23 GMT
Article-I.D.: reed.1992Jul30.044523.29904
Organization: Reed College, Portland, OR

In article <1992Jul30.041101.1254@menudo.uh.edu> elee74l@Rosie.UH.EDU writes:
>What?  Straight??  A 'straight' man wouldn't be so desperate to be
>the insertee, would he?  If he likes to be fucked by penis that much,
>he just can't be all straight.

(get out your Antique Olive Bold font, please. Black ink, orange paper)


                             "Straights do X"
                              "Queers do Y"
                                  wrong
-- 
                __
nelson@reed.edu \/       Before the cream sits out too long, you must whip it
From: joe@spdcc.com (Joseph Francis)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Gay and Lesbian Film Study
Date: 21 Jul 92 16:39:12 GMT
Article-I.D.: spdcc.1992Jul21.163912.21200
Organization: S.P. Dyer Computer Consulting, Cambridge MA

The UCLA film school has announced as part of its lesbian and gay film
retrospective program "Outtakes", they have a special segment devoted
to the peep-show genre of filmmaking of the past, now superceded by
low-budget video filmmakers, called "Showing 8". 

"There is a literal treasure trove of material surfacing in Santa
Monica Bay", said Gayle Ourage, director of the formant film division
of the school, "scratchy, oddly color balanced, featuring naturally
groomed young men displaying a variety of stereotypical gay behaviors
which have virtually disappeared from the scene today. It looks like
MTV on Aphrodisiacs."

The films have been cut and blended to show a logical progression of
styles and genres, highlighting 70's peepshow techniques for a new
generation of Auteurs being groomed by the filmschool. The "long
take", the use of "super-8", the use of surface and faded color, zoom
synched to musical beats, the fade-to-white. Such peep classics as
"Berlin Biker Rape", "Spank Boys", "Kock Krazy", "Uncle Lovers", and
the often-referred-to but rarely-seen "Bubble-Butt Fuckers".

"We want to take the dust off of what clearly is powerful archival
material. Think of what 'Basic Instinct' would have looked like if
these films had been more part of a cinematic volcabulary".

Regular round-the-clock screenings, every 45 minutes, will be shown in
the Alice Tulley Hall, with special guest appearances by William
Higgins, Toby Ross, and other short-film format pioneers. On the final
day, a discussion panel will be led by Rex Reed, Gore Vidal, Derek
Jarman, and special guest Bruce Weber on the topic "'Pussy-Boy
Bootlicker', Fassbinder, and Moholy-Nagy: three views".

You can obtain advance ticket seatings at the UCLA cinema box office,
or through Ticketron or Chargeline. Visa and Mastercard accepted.
-- 
US Jojo; damp, slighly soiled, but tasty nonetheless.
From: anderson@macc.wisc.edu (Jess Anderson)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: I LOVE HATERS
Date: 30 Jul 92 10:29:49 GMT
Organization: Madison Academic Computing Center, UW-Madison


In article <1992Jul29.225708.3737@reed.edu> nelson@reed.edu
(Nelson Minar) writes:

>That manifesto was anti-sex, anti-fun, full of misdirected animosity.
>A perversion of the original uplifting "I Hate Straights" message that
>was responsible for a lot of my own queer sensibility.

>Nelson, whose posts are becoming less and less coherent.

*Not* less.  More.

-- 
Jess Anderson <> Madison Academic Computing Center <> University of Wisconsin
Internet: anderson@macc.wisc.edu <-best, UUCP:{}!uwvax!macc.wisc.edu!anderson
NeXTmail w/attachments: anderson@yak.macc.wisc.edu  Bitnet: anderson@wiscmacc
Room 3130 <> 1210 West Dayton Street / Madison WI 53706 <> Phone 608/262-5888
From: msp@ohstpy.mps.ohio-state.edu (Michael S. Pettersen)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Meeting the Parents
Date: 27 Jul 92 11:35:46 EDT

My folks came down to visit over the weekend.  Things went pretty well.  
They met Jim, and liked him, though I deliberately scheduled things so that 
they only had to spend a limited amount of time with him.  I hoped that 
they would be able to acclimate gradually that way.

Mom asked if Jim had _told_ his parents yet; and I asked whether she was 
sorry I had told her.  I was feeling a little guilty about coming out to 
them.  I don't _need_ parental approval of my lifestyle, and if it makes 
them uncomfortable, why should I burden them with having to make such an
adjustment at this time of their lives?  (It would have been different if I 
were younger and needed support, and they were younger, and better able to 
give it.)

To my surprise, they answered simultaneously:
 Dad:  Of course not, it's better to be open about these things.
 Mom:  Yes and no.

On the other hand, Mom spontaneously suggested that they might come to 
Columbus to spend Christmas with us.  I have to give her credit for having 
a lot of courage.

On another note:  if you're thinking of going to Ameriflora, don't.
-- 
Mike Pettersen
Ohio State Physics, msp@ohstpy.bitnet, msp@ohstpy.mps.ohio-state.edu
Perfect love casteth out fear.
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: elee74l@Rosie.UH.EDU
Subject: Re: the new innocent
Reply-To: elee74l@Rosie.UH.EDU
Organization: University of Houston
Date: Wed, 29 Jul 1992 05:55:26 GMT

In article <1992Jul29.053127.26318@wam.umd.edu>, jns@wam.umd.edu (J. N. Shaumeyer) writes:
>      According to the results of a 1991 study by
>   the Maryland Campus AIDS Research Effort, 21%
>   of the 3,394 campus students surveyed had had
>   10 or more sexual partners.  Also, 25.3% of those
>   surveyed reported having heterosexual anal
>   intercourse, and 12.6% reported having had a 
>   sexually transmitted disease.
>
>I was shocked to see that so many had reported
>having *heterosexual* Gay Sex [tm], not to mention
>their unbridled promiscuity.

The article you read is only based on the 3394 students who are WILLING to
volunteer for this survey.  In which means, there is a failure in random
simpling.  So there is no need to be shocked.

By the way, the article says "heterosexual anal intercourse", doesn't it
mean male's penis inserts into female's anal?  So where did you get this
"heterosexual *GAY* Sex" idea???
Well.... I guess it can mean female brings over a fake penis and insert into
male's anal, but that's HIGHLY unusual.


>When some of these people develop AIDS, how long
>will it take to transform them into 'innocent'
>victims?
>
What do you mean?  I assume your definition of 'innocent' victims are the ones
who are HIV negative.
One doesn't have to have AIDS developed to transmit the decease.
As long as one who is HIV positive, he can transmit decease to anyone by 
sexual intercourse or by blood transfer at anytime.

Ken   elee74l@jetson.uh.edu
Newsgroups: soc.motss,talk.politics.misc,alt.individualism,alt.activism
From: twpierce@amhux1.amherst.edu (Tim Pierce)
Subject: Re: On Banning Private Discrimination
Organization: Amherst College, Amherst MA
Date: Thu, 30 Jul 1992 15:18:41 GMT

In article <1992Jul26.183822.6063@cs.mun.ca> brian@odie.cs.mun.ca (Brian Paquet) writes:

>In article <1992Jul25.224611.3640@queernet.org> rogerk@queernet.org (Roger B.A. Klorese) writes:
>
>>I am Jewish, an atheist and a leftist.  When my Judaism is not
>>known, I do indeed have an automatic "in" into the power elite.  I benefit
>>from its privilege daily.
>
>You are? Gee I'm a white het male and I can fake the leftist part.
>I have a degree in economics, could you swing a good summer job for me
>[too late for this summer] for that matter a good part time job during
>the semester would be nice, Sure just call yoour connections [being a 
>member of the elite..
>Luh I hate to bust peoples buble, but white het males don't go around
>organizing meeting on how to keepo  others down

What school do you go to?  Who were your parents?  Are you a member of
the Elks, Lions, Masons?  Depending on the answers to these questions,
the question of "could you swing a good job for me" might be
answerable.

Whether or not conspiracy is endemic to being a straight white male,
it's amazing to see how common it is for straight white men to
organize networks to keep others down.

-- 
____ Tim Pierce                / "You mean there are TWO of you, Pierce?
\  / twpierce@amherst.edu      /  God help us all."
 \/ (BITnet: TWPIERCE@AMHERST) /   -- Major Charles Emerson Winchester III
Newsgroups: soc.motss,talk.politics.misc,alt.individualism,alt.activism
From: rogerk@queernet.org (Roger B.A. Klorese)
Subject: Re: On Banning Private Discrimination
Organization: QueerNet
Date: Thu, 23 Jul 92 12:32:57 GMT

In article <1992Jul22.202834.16597@pony.Ingres.COM> rogerl@Ingres.COM (Roger Leuthner) writes:
>In article <nkghems@fido.asd.sgi.com> dauber@sgi.com (Jeff Dauber) writes:
>>libertarianism would give white heterosexual males the freedom to return
>>to the exploitive days of the past.
>This has nothing to do with race, gender, sexuality.  It is becoming rather
>typical that this particular group is blamed for anything bad that
>was/is/will-be.

This has everything to do with race, gender, sexuality, not as a matter of
"blaming this particular group for anything bad," but as a matter of
admitting that exploitation (not bigotry -- that's en equal-opportunity
matter) depends on power.
-- 
ROGER B.A. KLORESE                                              +1 415 ALL-ARFF
rogerk@unpc.QueerNet.ORG                 {ames,decwrl,pyramid}!mips!unpc!rogerk
"Normal is not something to aspire to, it's something to get away from."
                                                                   -- J. Foster
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: jakec@ralvmm.vnet.ibm.com (Jake Coughlin)
Subject: Re: The sexiest man on TV
Originator: jakec@ralvmm.vnet.ibm.com
Date: Wed, 22 Jul 92 12:38:36 GMT
Organization: IBM T. J. Watson Research

booter@Autodesk.COM (Elaine Richards):
>>however, Picard is too perfect in my mind, the Commander Data of
>>the human condition.
> 
> The fascination that over-controlled people have for the rest of
> us mortal schlumps is that a person who is so tightassed, remote
> and controlled is often the most feeling person and is all encased 
> in control to protect that bundle of sensitivity. This is what
> straight women call "a challenge". Its like watching a rose unfurl
> its petals - a very Tantric emotional exercise. To force the bloom
> would be to wound the flower, but patience yields a golden center.

well, ok, i see what you mean, but that's not really what i meant.
Picard always has the answer, even when he's debating, and you want
to talk about "over-educated"?  take a peek at Picard.  he seems like
the embodiment of rational thinking, and it just doesn't work for me.

i hate Ryker, but i can sympathize with his character because
he seems more human.  he makes mistakes.  he loses his temper.
he winds up landing in the right spot, but unlike Picard, it
was a challenge to get there.  i find Ryker much more interesting
than Picard, but i don't find him in the least bit attractive. :-)

actually, about the only people i usually find attractive are
the temps.  i was wide eyed at the young medical technician who
was accused of being a Romulan spy in the episode called "The
Drumhead."  there was a red-head bridge crew member in one of
the episodes who always caught my eye, but i think he got
killed off.  he must have been gay.
-- 
Jason Coughlin ( jakec@ralvmm.vnet.ibm.com )
Queer Without A Cause!
"I find myself suddenly in the world, and I recognize that I have one
right alone: that of demanding human behavior of the other." -- Fanon
Xref: sparky soc.motss:32577 alt.politics.homosexuality:5194
From: IO81409@MAINE.MAINE.EDU (Ailsa N.T. Murphy)
Newsgroups: soc.motss,alt.politics.homosexuality
Subject: Re: Christians & Homosexuals: Who are the bigots?
Date: 26 Jul 92 03:51:48 GMT
Organization: University of Maine System

thereby giving the christians MORE ammunition against the gay community.
yeah, right.

                                      -ailsa
It's not what you got, it's what you give           _______________
It ain't the life you want, it's the life you live. \    DYKE    /
It's not what you got, it's what you give             \ PRIDE! /
And it ain't what it's not, but what it is.             \    /
(IO81409@maine.maine.edu or wang.com!ailanth!ailsa)       \/