From: timk@world.std.com (Tim King)
Subject: Re: Tradition
Organization: The World Public Access UNIX, Brookline, MA
Date: Wed, 9 Sep 1992 03:44:14 GMT

creps@silver.ucs.indiana.edu (Steve Creps) writes:

>   My first question is this: by whose authority do you know that
>Scripture has authority?

The ideas to which you are objecting, Steve, are answerable.  Although I
do not have time to compose a complete dissertation on the defense of the
canon, the christian canon is defensible.  I'd recommend you pick up a good
book such as _The_Origin_of_The_Bible_, which wholeheartedly supports the
traditional standards by which the canon has been judged.


>Scripture does not tell you what books belong to it.  Even if it did,
>that would make its authority circular, i.e. you would be believing
>something only because it told you to believe it.

I see a possible need to point out something which may be quite obvious to
some of us.  The bible is not one book; it is a collection of books written
by many authors over more than 5000 years.  If something in Daniel is used
to support something Moses said or Jesus's words are used to support David,
there is no circular reasoning involved.  Therefore, the claim of the Bible
to its own authority is not necessarily circular.


>   The canon of Scripture was determined by the Church over 1500 years
>ago, by the Catholic/Orthodox Church.  This canon was not contested
>for over 1000 years, when Luther decided to drop a few books that
>supported doctrines he wished to do away with.  So one either accepts
>the canon according to Luther (one man, who broke away from the
>Catholci Church), or one accepts the canon defined by an ecumenical
>council by the Catholic/Orthodox Church more than 1500 years ago.

Steve, for the benefit of everyone else here and for the general discussion,
let's get our history straight, okay?  Any quotes in the rest of this message
were taken from the aforementioned book, _The_Origin_of_The_Bible_.

The Old Testament canon was accepted by the *JEWS*.  The New Testament canon
was generally accepted by the end of the first century.
 
"What qualifies a book for a place in the canon of the Old Testament or
New Testament is not just that it is ancient, informative and helpful,
and has long been read and valued by God's people, but that it has God's
authority for what it says." (p. 52)
 
There has been great debate as to whether or not the Alexandrian Apocrypha
is inspired.  However, the traditional Protestant position is not
indefensible.  The Jews did not, and still do not, accept the Apocrypha
as inspired.  There is even evidence to support the statement that
the Alexandrian canon did not include the Apocrypha!  For example,
Philo of Alexandria "ascribes inspiration to many books in all three
[sections of the Jewish canon], but never to any of the Apocrypha." (p. 62)
 
"The Septuagint manuscripts are paralleled by the writings of the early
Christian Fathers...  In their writings there is both a wide and a narrow
canon.  The former comprises those books from before the time of Christ
which were generally read and esteemed in the church (including the
Apocrypha), but the latter is confined to the books of the Jewish Bible,
which scholars like Melito, Origen, Epiphanius, and Jerome take the trouble
to distinguish from the rest as alone inspired."  (p. 62)
 
Although the New Testament canon was written over a much shorter period of
time, the premises for defending it are much like those for defending the
Old Testament canon.  It was written by reliable authors and spontaneously
recognized as canon by independent groups of early christians.
 
Also, the biblical writers *do* make reference to books, passages, and
authors as inspired.  Even Jesus Himself makes a few such references!
 
"Christ and his apostles quote Old Testament texts, not merely as what
men like Moses, David, or Isaiah said (see Mark 7:6,10; 12:36; Rom 10:5,20;
11:9;), but also as what God said through these men (see Acts 4:25; 28:25),
or sometimes simply as what "he" (God) says (1 Cor 6:16; Heb 8:5,8), or
what the Holy Spirit says (Heb 3:7; 10:15).  Furthermore, Old Testament
statements not made by God in their contexts, are quoted as utterances
of God (Matt 19:4ff; Heb 3:7; Acts 13:34, citing Gen 2:24; Ps 95:7;
Isa 55:2 respectively)." (pp. 32-33)
 
Ouch!!!
-TimK

-- 
Tim King                  |  Some of us favor logic in making decisions.
24 Myrtle Street          |  Some, emotions.  I, personally, get very    |\
Dedham, MA 02026          |  emotional about faulty logic! :-)           | >
timk@world.std.com        |                                             <>
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