HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: ap1i+@andrew.cmu.edu (Andrew C. Plotkin)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.science
Subject: Re: Teleport Gate Paradox (New?)
Date: 13 Dec 92 17:49:54 GMT
Organization: School of Computer Science, Carnegie Mellon, Pittsburgh, PA

Excerpts from netnews.rec.arts.sf.science: 11-Dec-92 Teleport Gate
Paradox (New?) Sean Morgan@arc.ab.ca (1465)

> Now let's move the gates close together. Soon he can now tap himself on the
> back.  Closer still, and he is crowded up against his own back:

>            |    |
>            |-):-|
>            |    |

> A little harder to see, smiley is still in the middle, but his friend has
> stepped aside.  Now the paradox:  Assuming that the "membrane" of the gate
> cannot transmit a shear stress, what happens when the gates are move even
> closer, or even touch?


My first guess: Since you're trying to force his head into his, um,
tuchus, you'll feel the resistance. That is, you'll feel a force
preventing you from moving the gates closer together. If you push
harder, the smiley will say "ouch", and eventually you'll break his
spine. 

This guess is motivated purely by conservation laws. Replace the smiley
with a spring. Now you're trying to compress the spring, ie put energy
into it. Energy equals force times distance; you're putting in energy as
you move the gate a distance, so you feel a force.

Now do the old trick of putting the receiver gate above the transmitter.
Put a rock in between and let it fall. Now conservation goes all to hell
-- the rock will continually gain kinetic energy from nowhere. *This* is
why I think such gates can never exist.

(Unless the construction is such that you have to plug them in. Then the
above arrangement would suck power from the socket and turn it into
kinetic energy. If the power supply was insufficient, the gates shut off
(and are immediately demolished by the rock.))

--Z

"And Aholibamah bare Jeush, and Jaalam, and Korah: these were the borogoves..."
From: S.A.McIntyre@durham.ac.uk (Scott A. McIntyre)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.science
Subject: Re: Time Travel and Causality Violation
Date: 18 Dec 92 12:47:18 GMT
Reply-To: S.A.McIntyre@durham.ac.uk
Organization: University of Durham

In article <1992Dec16.111449.15440@newstand.syr.edu>, pksuk@mothra.syr.EDU (Peter K. Suk) writes:
|> Dear Scott,
|> 
|> 	I'm a-gonna toast you a little.  It's nothing personal, and we'd 
|> love to hear your input in the future.  But I've got to singe you just
|> a bit right now.
|> 

Well, we all have to do what we all have to do.


|> "Ignoring the fact that the thing is impossible, could we, like, do it with
|> technology doohickies we don't have yet?  Like Sooner!?"
|> 
|> And The Gleeb Glorbles the Garbleflocks.  Voon!     ;-)
|> 

No, my point is that that paradox may be resolvable under a multidimensional reality
framework.  We have not yet developed time travel.  Based upon a rediculous assumption
that we will, we could then export that technology back to the time before that technology
was available under the premise that it will not cause a paradox, but merely fork off
another set of possibilites.  The reality in which time travel was created and allowed the
exportation will still exist, yet we will not be part of it (or we will, depending on
whose point of view you take).  Our present (today) will have the ability to travel
through time sooner and thus, perhaps, develop additional technology and abilities that we
would not have had without the importation of the time travel technology.

It's all theory at the moment, but I think my point is clear.


|> 
|> Could you beam me up?
|> 

And in the winner of the Most Original Comment Ever Made by a Geek to Another Geek Whose
Name Happens to be Scott Award is:

|> 	--Peter Kwangjun Suk


An ex girlfriend used to twist this to her advantage and had a poster in her kitchen which
read "Beam Scotty up me".  I think I preferred that alternative to beaming other people
around.

:-)

Scott

-- 
EMAIL: S.A.McIntyre@durham.ac.uk   OR scott@shrug.dur.ac.uk (NeXTmail)
SNAIL: Pyschment of Departology, University of Durham, Durham, DH1 3LE
SUN Computers:  "Nice chips, shame about her OS"
"If a virtual tree falls in a virtual forest, does it make a virtual sound?"
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.science
From: ingles@engin.umich.edu (Ray Ingles)
Subject: Re: Time Travel and Causality Violation
Date: Tue, 15 Dec 92 11:40:57 EST
Organization: University of Michigan Engineering, Ann Arbor

In article <1992Dec14.110310.1128@newstand.syr.edu> pksuk@mothra.syr.EDU (Peter K. Suk) writes:
>In article <BCR.92Dec12023142@hfl3sn02.cern.ch> 
>bcr@cernapo.cern.ch (Bill Riemers) writes:
>
>>In article <8895@lee.SEAS.UCLA.EDU> 
>>leonardo@mills.seas.ucla.edu (Leonardo E. Blanco De Freitas) writes:
>>
>>>   1) Forget time travel: it is impossible
>>>   or
>>>   2) Allow more than one dimension of time.
>>
>>You forgot two other possabilities possabilities:
>>
>>    3)  Predestiny...[deleted]
>>
>>    4)  Limited predestiny...[deleted]
>
>We dealt with this in the previous discussion.  If the entire history of
>the universe is predetermined, such that no paradoxes occur, the simplest
>configuration for this universe would be:
>
>	There is no time travel.

 I *think* you may have misunderstood 'Niven's Law.' The idea is, *if you
can change the past,* then eventually time travel won't happen. (By 'the
past,' I mean *the* past the you came from, not an alternate universe.)
 Because you will eventually make the change that no time machines are
built, and then no further change is possible.
 But there's no _a_priori_ reason to assume that, if paradoxes are disallowed
and you're travelling to *the* past, that time travel won't happen. The
simplest configuration is that no time travel is invented... but how many
things in nature are in the simplest possible configuration? :->

>If the time continuum heals itself by changing history such that no paradoxes
>occur, the simplest change would be:
>	There is no time travel.

 Small argument here. Somebody posted a bit a while back about "Langevin time,"
which is a conceptual tool in physics, I gather. It can be interpreted
(though I gather most physicists would shudder in horror at the idea) as
a 'hypertime.' This someone claimed that a paradox was set up on a computer,
and the simulation was aged in Langevin time- and came to a stable (non-
paradoxical) equilibrium that still involved time travel. I still have it
on file somewhere...

>	--Peter Kwangjun Suk

 Sincerely,
 
 Ray Ingles
 ingles@engin.umich.edu

 "Is knowledge knowable? If not, how do we know this?" -- Woody Allen
From: max@west.darkside.com (Erik Max Francis)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.science
Subject: Re: General regulations?
Date: 12 Dec 92 20:00:13 GMT
Organization: The Dark Side of the Moon +1 408 245 SPAM

mhorning@zeus.calpoly.edu (Mark E. Horning (Captain Neutrino)) writes:

> 	On  a related note, The Moat around Murchenson's Eye has been
> turned into the publisher, anyone know when it will be released?

I work in a bookstore, and the publication date given for _The Gripping 
Hand_ is February, 1993.

----------
Erik Max Francis   Omnia quia sunt, lumina sunt.  Coming soon:  UNIVERSE _ | _
USmail:  1070 Oakmont Dr. #1 San Jose CA 95117  ICBM:  37 20 N  121 53 W _>|<_
UUCP:  ..!apple!uuwest!max   Usenet:  max@west.darkside.com   464E4F5244   |
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.science,rec.arts.sf.misc,rec.arts.startrek.tech
From: jdnicoll@prism.ccs.uwo.ca (James Davis Nicoll)
Subject: Re: Territorial Disputes
Organization: University of Western Ontario, London
Date: Tue, 15 Dec 1992 17:24:47 GMT


In article <1992Dec15.141750.2877@cs.rochester.edu> dietz@cs.rochester.edu (Paul Dietz) writes:
>
>All this talk about galactic empires shows a typical blind spot that
>occurs in a lot of science fiction.  Specifically: it ignores the role
>of time.
>
>Here on earth, empires collided because they became possible at about
>the same time.  Fundamentally, this is because everyone is of the same
>species, the evolution and spread of which synchronized the clocks, so
>to speak.  In the galaxy, however, different empires will start at
>wildly different times.  Stories that assume everyone is at a low
>level, or is expanding all at once, are just too implausible.  There
>is no longer any good excuse to ignore the Fermi Paradox.

	Actually, there  was  conflict between civilisations  of different
'ages'  (Birth  in this  case being  the local invention of  cities),  but
conflicts like  Aztec  vs  the Spanish tended tobe  a bit one-sided. Too
much difference in the benifits of civilisation  (Tech, military techniques
and diseases,for example) each had  acquired.

	Given speed-of-light limitations, I can't  see  the  edges
of the colonised areas having much to  do with  the core systems.  I'm
not sure (Actually, I strongly doubt)  that much trade will occur,
except perhaps in information.  Perhaps interstellar cultures will  be
like forests, with large  regions  occupied  by old  cultures,  and
'colonization' and the spread of younger off-shoots only possible
where circumstance (whatever the cultural  equivalent  of a forest
fire  or  climactic  shift  is) allows.

	I'd expect in those circumstances that old cultures would run
into  the limitations of their environments and  their abilities,  which
would make territoriality as  useful as here on  Earth. Interstellar
nomads might  not  be loved  by their sedentary kin, if human history
is a guide.

							James Nicoll
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.science
From: foxd@silver.ucs.indiana.edu (daniel fox)
Subject: Re: Time Travel and Causality Violation
Organization: Indiana University
Date: Thu, 17 Dec 1992 21:52:52 GMT


I had at one time thought about the argument if time travel existed wouldn't
we be up to our armpits in time travelers?  After some thought I reached the
following conclusions:

1)  On the average, there is more time and space than there are time travelers
    and places for them to be.  This is of course assuming that an advanced
    civilization doesn't begin a process of establishing colonies throughout
    time and building more time machines to colonize more of time until the 
    entire universe is completely occupied for all time.  This would imply that
    the existence of time travel is incompatable with the existence of other
    intelligent races in the universe since any planet they could arise on
    would be colonized before they could evolve.

2)  Assuming that an advanced civilization decides that time colonization is a
    bad idea, there are only going to be a limited number of time travelers
    who visit any one interesting event in history due to the number of
    interesting events in history and the finite life span and numbers of time
    travelers.

3)  Assuming that time travelers did show up in Dallas during the assasination
    of JFK they would leave a number of unanswered mysteries surrounding the
    shooting.  Strange figures lurking in the area.  People having advanced
    knowledge of the shooting.  That sort of thing.

4)  Most people who came in contact with unmistakable evidence of visiting
    time travelers would twitch all over and run away.  Then would pretend the
    whole thing never happened.
 
new sig.
******************************************************************************
*   You want to take a potato and do WHAT with it?!!!                        *
*   But if we used our callsign people would know who we are!!!              *
*   The capacitor should be put in series with the animal.                   *
******************************************************************************
*          Daniel B. Fox              *          All men are mortal.         *
*              KF9ET                  *          Aristotle is a man.         *
*   FOXD@SILVER.UCS.INDIANA.EDU       *   Therefore: All men are Aristotle.  *
******************************************************************************
* My opinions are my own.   Mine you hear me!!!   MINE!!! MINE!!! MINE!!!!   *
******************************************************************************
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.science
From: drac@uumeme.chi.il.us (Bruce Maynard)
Subject: Re: Do starships collapse when flying near c?
Organization: UUMEME Public Access Xenix
Date: Fri, 18 Dec 92 04:22:07 GMT

re: "Does this mean then that the ship flying at the "right" speed will fall
into a black hole (ie, the rest of the universe)?"

Nonono... the "gained mass", is actually the energy aquired relative to other
objects via HAVING such a high speed... there *is NO* "actual" mass gained
(and therefore no additional gravitational attraction!)

Xref: sparky rec.arts.sf.science:3791 rec.arts.sf.misc:3492
From: pepke@dirac.scri.fsu.edu (Eric Pepke)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.science
Subject: Re: Weapons systems?
Keywords: high-G space weapons
Date: 15 Dec 92 22:48:56 GMT
Reply-To: pepke@dirac.scri.fsu.edu (Eric Pepke)
Organization: Florida State University, but I don't speak for them

In article <1992Nov23.204719.9039@newstand.syr.edu> pksuk@mothra.syr.EDU (Peter K. Suk) writes:
>(* - Of course, computers are highly ordered.  Which means that they 
>have got to produce a corresponding degree of entropy SOMEWHERE.  
>This usually means heat.  Is there any way to avoid the heat?)

According to information theory, energy is dissipated when a bit is destroyed.
If you can avoid destroying bits, you can avoid the theoretical need to 
dissipate heat.  In other words, if you can make the computation reversable,
you don't need to dissipate, in theory.  In practice, of course, it is
unlikely that it could be avoided.

Some theoretical work has been done on reversable computation.  I am not up
on the latest developments.

-EMP
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.science,alt.folklore.science
From: frank@rover.uchicago.edu (Frank - Hardware Hacker - Borger)
Subject: Re: The Marching Morons (was Re: Cindy the Disco Queen)
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41    
Reply-To: frank@rover.uchicago.edu
Organization: Joint Center for Radiation Therapy
Date: Tue, 15 Dec 1992 22:01:00 GMT

In article <pete.724415390@extro.ucc.su.OZ.AU>, pete@extro.ucc.su.OZ.AU (Peter Alexander Merel) writes...
>> The real problem is the sorry state of our educational system, which, like
>>many aspects of the US government today, seems to exist more to keep a bunch
>>of bureaucrats employed than to do anything useful. 
> 
>Woah Jim, while I agree that the US government is noxious, the morons are
>breeding far faster beneath the considerably less enlightened governments 
>that afflict most of the human race. 
> 
	While I strongly believe that a bumbling bureacureacy is a major
	burden on the Chicago schools, I still believe that money is the
	major tail that wags the dog of education.

	Suburban school districts, in areas of relatively high income, pay
	proportionately higher per capita for schooling. Inner city districts,
	make do with less. Answer the following question.

	A good education thru 12th grade is a primary:

	A/ Privilege
	B/ Right
	C/ Absolute necessity

	I find Kornbluth scaringly accurate in his predictions, (much more
	so than Orwell et al.) However it puts me in a quandry.

	A/ I strongly believe that we must support quality education for all
	   as a basic necessity of our society.

	B/ With a current (15 year) history of property taxes rising at the
	   rate of 12% a year, by the time I retire, I will be spending 100%
	   of my income paying property taxes. Obviously I can not do this,
	   (and continue to pay for heat, light etc. not to mention Income taxes.)


   Frank R. Borger - Physicist    __       Internet:  Frank@rover.uchicago.edu
Michael Reese - Univ. of Chicago |___      Phone : 312-791-8075 fax : 567-7455
  Center for Radiation Therapy   | |_) _   
                                   | \|_)  Faith is believing what you know
    "Birthplace of Softball"          |_)  ain't so. - Mark Twain
From: py1djf@sunlab1.bath.ac.uk (D J Ford)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.science
Subject: Re: Alien configuration
Date: 11 Dec 92 18:56:46 GMT
Organization: School of Physics, University of Bath, UK

In the referenced article, d2jonas@dtek.chalmers.se (Jonas Olsson) writes:
>From what I heard of the development of Alien3 they wanted to change the
>alien. They director (?) wanted a fast, vicous and lethal predator capable
>of swift and accurate slaughter. I guess he got what he wanted...
>
	I have to agree with the previous mailer, that
	the aliens assume some of the physical characteristics
	of there hosts.

	But whats too say that there mental characterises would
	not change depending on there environment. You could
	expect ANY species to by utterly hostile when it comes to
	its existence on LV-427 ( even the humans ), but if the 
	Aliens where introduced into a more gentle environment
	maybe they wouldnt react so viciously. Who knows, maybe
	there quite friendly when there happy :->

	All the confrontations seen with the creatures have been
	under circumstances that have been threatening to its existence:-

	ALIEN) the one alien HAD to use the crew of the Nostromo
		as hosts as a basic instinct of species preservation.
		After all if you where the only awake member of your
		species, being hunted down just for behaving naturally
	 	wouldn't you be just a little defensive?

	ALIENS) Initially much the same a in the Nostromo.
		Although no information is given on how more
		of the colonists are 'exposed' to the alien 
		seed pods, I believe that the alien escaped from 
		the colony, when't to the derelict ship, and brought
		back pods.

		Then when the marines arrive, well what do you expect
		There under attack again. But now there in larger numbers
		Id bet that the perhaps recognise the benefit of the
		atmosphere processor ( in a purely simplistic way)
		and then go on the offensive to protect it.

		And the Queen, well, after Ripleys just toasted her 
		nursery, you can expect her to be a little upset.

	ALIEN3) Well, the situations now a hybrid of ALIEN and ALIENS,
		with the dog-alien in an all-out fight for survival,
		but also with a duty to protect its queen-embryo.

		
>My vision of the alien species is that they can be compare to semi-intelligent
>ants: They have a queen alien, fighter aliens, worker aliens etc. with one
>alien for each function. The semi-intelligent aspect makes them just that
>more lethal: They're smart enough to ambush you, turn the lights off, attack
>from a higher/lower floor etc., but they're dumb enough just to keep on
>coming regardless of casualties...	     ^^^^
					      |
					     /
	This isn't dumb, their behaviour  w.r.t.
	the sentry guns in Aliens is clever and a prime
	military strategy with unselfish soldiers. Just ask
	Shaka Zulu, he used it with great success in the
	19th century. 



-- 
	 _________________________________________________
	|  // /||\/| | / ` /| ||       Dave Ford.	  |
	|\X/ /^||  | | \_7/^| ||py1djf@sunlab1.bath.ac.uk |
	 -------------------------------------------------
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.marketplace,misc.forsale
From: db0s+@andrew.cmu.edu (David M. Bartlett)
Newsgroups: cmu.misc.market,rec.arts.sf.marketplace,rec.games.frp.marketplace,rec.arts.comics.marketplace
Subject: Fantastic Jigsaw Puzzles
Date: 12 Dec 92 21:46:08 GMT
Organization: Computer Repair, Carnegie Mellon, Pittsburgh, PA


I'm selling 2 different jigsaw puzzles featuring the art of Frank
Frazetta, a famous science fiction and fantasy novel cover artist
(Robert E. Howard's Conan, Michael Moorcock's Eternal Champion series,
the entire Edgar Rice Burrough's collection, including Tarzan and John
Carter of Mars) and comic book artist (Covers of the classic Warner b&w
comics, Vampirella especially) of the 1960's and 1970's.  If you are a
fan of Boris Vajello, Franzetta was his inspiration, period.

 Each puzzle has 551 pieces, is 18" x 24" when completed, and is in full color.

"Flying Lizards" features a woman with a spear fending off an attack by
Pterodactyls and a sabretooth tiger in a smoky, gloomy cavern.

"Against the Gods"  features a man standing on a peak in thunderstorm
deflecting a lightningbolt from above with his sword.

If you know someone who is into adventure games or fiction AND likes
jigsaw puzzles, or are just looking to pin-down somebody at a card table
while your making Christmas dinner (their original purpose in my case--I
was never one for football games and parades), these are great.  $5.00
each, $10.00 for both.  If outside the Pittsburgh area, postage for
either or both will be $2.00 for one and $3.00 for both.

Send email if interested.

Dave B.
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.marketplace
Subject: Omni Issue #1 and others have value?
From: sandy.dumitru@pcb.batpad.lgb.ca.us (Sandy Dumitru) 
Date: 18 Dec 92 06:00:00 GMT
Reply-To: sandy.dumitru@pcb.batpad.lgb.ca.us (Sandy Dumitru) 
Distribution: world
Organization: The Batchelor Pad PCBoard ~ Long Beach, CA ~ +1 310 494 8084

From: sandy.dumitru@pcb.batpad.ca.lgb.us
Newgroups: rec.arts.sf.marketplace


I have several complete years of OMNI magazine, beginning with
the very first issue.  I also have assorted issues of Analog and
the like from the 70's and early 80's.  Does anyone out there
know if these have any value as collectors items?

Thanks!
Sandy
---
 . SLMR 2.1a . Power corrupts.  Absolute power is kind of neat.
From: robohen@ocf.berkeley.edu (Henry Robertson)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.marketplace
Subject: ONE-DOLLAR JAPANESE COMICS FOR SALE
Date: 17 Dec 1992 14:21:05 GMT
Organization: U. C. Berkeley Open Computing Facility
NNTP-Posting-Host: headcrash.berkeley.edu

I have here a vast collection of rare & unusual manga, that I've trimmed
down through sales....but, I have kept the very best, so that you manga
fans of the world can enjoy them with me.  By just sending ONE DOLLAR,
cash or money order, you receive an 8-page sample of the far-beyond-mainstream
cyberpunk stuff I have to offer.  No, it's not Akira or some other childish
fare.  If what you got out of that stuff was like an amphetamine high, this
would be a crack high.  One dollar is not a very big risk to take, folks.
What I have to offer is some of the most rare Japanese cartoons in existence,
by a man of distubring vision.  If you dare, contact robohen@ocf.berkeley.edu 
I know no holidays.  In any case, if you are interested in the 8-page
sample then send a self-addressed stamped business-size envelope to

Henry Robertson
2206 Durant Ave. #5
Berkeley, CA 94704  

and don't forget the dollar.  I'll look forward to hearing from you.
English subtitles are provided.