HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: morna@dcs.ed.ac.uk (Morna J Findlay)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.celtic
Subject: Re: Scotland: Independance v Devolution
Date: 8 Apr 92 15:32:43 GMT
Reply-To: morna@dcs.ed.ac.uk (Morna J Findlay)
Organization: Laboratory for the Foundations of Computer Science, Edinburgh U

In article <1992Apr8.122528.8268@swift.cs.tcd.ie> mbrennan@swift.cs.tcd.ie (Micheal O'Braonain) writes:
>I have a question about Scottish Independance v Scottish Devolution v
>Independance within Europe.
>I really don't know the details of what either would involve, but 
>maybe someone could tell s.c.c. what the story is with regard to 
>
>A parliment - it's powers


Independence : Parliament could do whatever it liked, subject to the
constitution.

Independence in Europe : as above, exept the Bundesbank might interfere
:-)

So onto the Develved Parliament.
>Income     - would all income tax go directly to a Scottish assembly to
>             dole out as it wished, or would it go via London.
>             Does anyone really know what would happen to the oil
>             wells

Current LP thinking is that Income Tax should go to Westminster, they'd
give us a "grant" and the assembly could presumably raise extra taxes.

Some of us think that it's be better to give a grant *to* Westminster
instead, but this has been resisted so far.

>Law making - could a scottish assembly for example permit/forbid
>would              abortion/divorce/cannibus/homosexual acts/other 
>             controversial issues.  Apart from European law, would
>             it be bound by any British constitution.

Many laws,offences and penalties  are already different in Scotland anyway. 
There was recent
controversy when it was suggested that the age of consent for homosexual
sex between two males should be the same as for heteresexual sex ( 16 )
and claims that this is already the law here. I'm not sure about this
though. I've heard the Police here leave gay men between 16 and 21 ( the UK
legal age ) alone.

>passports  - GB or scottish?
>
UK/European


M

--
Morna Findlay 					JANET:morna@uk.ac.ed.dcs 
	Thanksgiving For a National Victory (Robert Burns)
Ye hypocrites! are these your pranks? To murder men and give God thanks?
Desist, for shame! Proceed no further: God won't accept your thanks for murther.
From: smckinty@sunicnc.France.Sun.COM (Steve McKinty - Sun ICNC)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.celtic
Subject: Re: shoot to kill?
Date: 10 Apr 92 17:44:30 GMT
Organization: Sun Technologies Enterprise Inc.
NNTP-Posting-Host: hardy.france.sun.com

In article <92101.110916RBYAML@ROHVM1.BITNET>, RBYAML@ROHVM1.BITNET (Aengus Lawlor) writes:
   > In article <9359@baird.cs.strath.ac.uk>, imcc@cs.strath.ac.uk (Iain McCord)
   > says:
   > >
   > >  I'm afraid I don't understand the phrase 'shoot to kill' : is there a way to
   > >shoot people without killing?
   > Of course there are ways to shoot people without killing. In some cases, it
   > takes more skill to kill than to wound.


That depends a lot on the circumstances. A good marksman in ideal circumstances
can indeed shoot to wound (although a shot from a modern high-velocity weapon
can cause a very serious shock, and death, even hitting a non-vital part of
the body).

In real situations, the only permitted reason for a soldier to shoot someone
is because they believe that person is going to shoot someone else. There's no
point in shooting an armed man in the leg if he's aiming a weapon at you, he
can still shoot back. Given that a soldier may only have seconds to decide,
its asking a lot to expect them to decide which hand the attacker's gun is in,
and then to shoot (and hit) that hand or arm. The only reliable way to
stop an armed attacker is to kill them, and that is what soldiers are trained
to do.

In any event, the phrase 'shoot-to-kill policy' is usually presumed to be a
misnomer used by a politician in the heat of the moment, when he meant to say
'shoot-on-sight policy'.

Steve
From: mbrennan@swift.cs.tcd.ie (Micheal O'Braonain)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.celtic
Subject: Re: Scottish& Irish Gaelic Words for Men and Women
Date: 15 Apr 92 11:42:15 GMT
Organization: Computer Science Department, Trinity College Dublin

> This may sound like a strange request. We are making up signs for the men's
> and women's restrooms (or loos). I would like to add the proper scottish
> gaelic words to the list. The words for "Men" and "Women" should be enough.

Not very helpful to the original poster but ...

The sign on the ladies room in O'Sheas Merchant reads: BANJACKS

(Non-Irish readers note that bean (pronounced ban) is irish for woman
 and jacks is a common name for _that_ smallest room in the house!)

PS:  In Irish gaelic men = FIR and women = MNA/
PPS:	Don't ask why the plural of 'bean' is 'mna/' :-)
-- 
 ,   ,  ,      ,              ,       ,          ,          ,  ,      ,
Micheal O Braonain     Roinn Riomheolaiochta, Colaiste Na Trionoide, BAC 2.
Email                  mbrennan@cs.tcd.ie
"Indecision is not an ignoble condition" - Brian Friel.
Newsgroups: soc.culture.celtic
From: ddaye@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (David C Daye)
Subject: Re: Bagpiper seeks correct newsgroup
Organization: The Ohio State University
Date: Thu, 16 Apr 1992 17:27:14 GMT

In article <1992Apr15.220558.6541@bsu-ucs.uucp> 00rdharringt@bsu-ucs.uucp (Rob Harrington) writes:
>In article <1992Apr15.142934.6482@bsu-ucs.uucp>, 01ksdavis@bsu-ucs.uucp writes:
>> 	I have already looked around for discussion groups of bagpipe players
>> in the classical music newsgroup, but I haven't found any anywhere.
>> 	So, do I post stuff here, it seems rather trivial compared to politics
>> 	Kyle
>
>Yeah post it here.... as a matter a fact we were having a bitchfest on 
>if there should be more culture in s.c.c...

Well there are several Highland and uillean pipers who at least lurk here,
such as myself.  So go ahead and post.

Incidentally, let me introduce myself as the *only* American who has no
position on Northern Ireland.  I'm too busy with my reeds.


--------------------------------------------------------------------
All ideas are mine alone. 
David Daye, DAYE.1@OSU.EDU                   It goes without saying that....
From: billp@pcsbst.pcs.com (Bill Potter)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.celtic
Subject: Going Home
Date: 13 Apr 92 09:40:36 GMT
Reply-To: billp@pcsbst.pcs.com (Bill Potter)
Organization: PCS Computer Systeme GmbH

I haven't seen any mention of this in the group to date so here goes.

While in Inverness last Saturday, I had to pop into the National
Trust for Scotland bookshop on Culloden Moor. I shouldn't do these
things but I do and I'm now about fifty pounds poorer. 

One of the books I picked up is "Going Home - The Runrig Story" by
Tom Morton, Mainstream Publishing, 1991, ISBN 1 85158 4110, Pounds 14.99. 

I found it to be a very interesting book, a cut above the usual 
pop-rock journalism. It traces the history of the band from the childhood
of the MacDonald brothers, through the various stages of their 
educational and musical development to the release of "The Big Wheel"
and the Lomondside concert. 

It deals with the difficulties they had with various rip-off merchants 
in the music industry and explains why so many Runrig recordings are 
sub-standard when compared to the live band. The factors leading to the 
band's work with Grampian's Cuir Car and also with STV and BBC Scotland 
are examined.  It also skirts around the political aspects of the band 
(socialist with a small 's' and nationalist with a small 'n') and their 
relationships with Gaelic traditional music. The West Highland Free Press 
is referenced frequently in the early part of the book.

The writer, Tom Morton, was/is(?) a Glasgow rock journalist who was 
an early, though sceptical, fan of the band. He writes in an easy
to read style without being superfluous. 

Finally the photos. For my taste there are too many pictures of
band-members holding or playing their instrument. However that should
not detract from the large number of pictures taken from photo
sessions for various albums and TV shows, with nice bits of Skye,
and other bits of Scotland, as a backdrop.

As well as recommending this book to all Runrig fans - they've
probably got it already - I think this book would make interesting
reading for anyone who is interested in why and how the mood in Scotland
has changed over the last twenty years, leading up to the forthcoming
prospect of devolution. This book gives examples of somes lives lived in
these times.

        In the name of 
         Capital,
          Establishment,
           Improvers, it's a name.
        The hidden truths, the hidden lies
        That once nailed you to the pain ...
=============================================================================
Bill Potter    : unido!pcsbst!billp       : 1992 - 500th Anniv. of a lost
PCS GmbH       : billp@pcsbst.pcs.com     : Italian sailor and 200th Anniv.
D8000 Muenchen : You can't sink a RAINBOW : of the year of the sheep.
=============================================================================
Newsgroups: soc.culture.celtic,uk.politics
From: cockburn@majors.enet.dec.com (Craig Cockburn)
Subject: SNP Initiative on Referendum
Organization: Digital Equipment Co. Ltd., Newbury, England
Date: Thu, 16 Apr 1992 19:04:00 GMT

From today's Ceefax:

SNP Intiative on Referendum

The Scottish National Party is calling on other political parties to back
an unofficial referendum on devolution.

SNP leader Alex Salmond has written to the Labour Party and Scottish
Liberal Democrats asking them to back a multi-option referendum

With the government almost certain to refuse a ballot, he said, Scotland
should hold one itself.

Without a parliamentary majority for devolution, he said, a decision should
be removed from Westminster and transferred to the people of Scotland.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------
  Craig Cockburn, Digital Equipment Co. Ltd, Newbury, England.  
  ARPAnet: cockburn@majors.enet.dec.com                            Saor
  UUCP:..!decwrl!majors.enet.dec.com!cockburn                      Alba!

  Views here are my own, and are not necessarily those of Digital
Newsgroups: soc.culture.celtic
From: parson_r@cubldr.colorado.edu (Robert Parson)
Subject: Re: Manifest Destiny (Was : Re: 200 years of Peace and Friendship
Organization: University of Colorado, Boulder
Date: Tue, 7 Apr 1992 21:20:37 GMT

(This no longer has any relation to soc.culture.celtic. I will post
a response on soc.culture.usa. Please direct followups accordingly)

Robert
Newsgroups: soc.culture.celtic
From: emcmanus@gr.osf.org (Eamonn McManus)
Subject: Re: Suze / Ireland / Support for paramilitaries
Organization: Open Software Foundation Research Institute, Grenoble
Date: Mon, 6 Apr 1992 17:50:33 GMT

dcnnnghm@unix1.tcd.ie (Mithrandir) writes:
>Suze is an American

No, Suze is an Aperitif, enjoyed all over France by those with a taste
for the bizarrely disgusting.

,
Eamonn
"I would rather staple my foreskin with a Swingline than drink Suze."
  -- Joe Francis
From: gln@cs.arizona.edu (Gary L. Newell)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.celtic
Subject: Re: USA go home (Was Re: Shooting)
Date: 16 Apr 92 17:55:28 GMT
Organization: U of Arizona CS Dept, Tucson

In article <1992Apr16.103601.8276@swift.cs.tcd.ie>, mbrennan@swift.cs.tcd.ie (Micheal O'Braonain) writes:
> In article <15332@optima.cs.arizona.edu>, gln@cs.arizona.edu (Gary L. Newell) writes:
>>  Well, no actually - get your history straight Matthew - the English had long
> > ago wiped out the majority of the native-american population and slaves who
> 
> When you cheered at the death of those 3 people in central
> london the other day, or the death of the army guy leaving his office,

WHAT?!! Look - disagree with what I say but please do not put words into my 
mouth which were never said. I not only did not say that I cheered the deaths,
I simply did not cheer the deaths - I was disgusted by them. 

> or the 80 people who were injured, I suppose you know for a fact that
> the great-great-grandaddy of each and every one of them played a major
> part in the rape and pillage of Ireland?  

Again, I said nothing of the kind and am honestly pissed off at having these
stmts. assigned to me - I never siad it, I never felt it...

> Micheal O Braonain     Roinn Riomheolaiochta, Colaiste Na Trionoide, BAC 2.

		gln
From: dlc@hpfcso.FC.HP.COM (Dennis Clark)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.celtic
Subject: Re: Re: Two Celtic cultures -- two newsgroups
Date: 14 Apr 92 22:14:32 GMT
Organization: Hewlett-Packard, Fort Collins, CO, USA

gedge@cm.cf.ac.uk (Geraint A Edwards) writes:

> gln@cs.arizona.edu (Gary L. Newell) writes:
> }  I can respect that - but frankly, so what? IF this group were
> } named soc.culture.celtic.chris.benson, then I might understand but...
> [..]
> } cbenson@bazooka.Altos.COM (Christopher Benson) writes:
> } > I am sure that I would read both groups
> } 
> } Then clearly it makes little difference if they are in the same place -right?
> [..]
> } OH, well as one of the "dishonest celts" I can only say "screw you"
> 
> It's a shame you found this offensive enough to reply like this.
> There is a point being made here that I sympathise with (well
> said, Chris).  I believe he was calling no-one "dishonest", but
> highlighting what some of us think - that s.c.c. has become too
> dominated with Anglo-Irish talks.
[...]

  That's OK, Gary flames everyone that doesn't like his pet peeve ;*)
Don't take it to heart.  But still, all ya gots to do is skip it, I don't 
use rn so the usual advice on the kill file does not work, I haven't yet 
figured out how to do this from notes.  Anyway, I like to look in now and 
again to see what is happening and Gary is a good counter to the (maybe)
less well informed, possibly misguided romantic.

(OK Gary, you can take a swing now, I have my boxing teether in. 8*()

DLC
From: oconnell@vms.macc.wisc.edu (Kevin Patrick O'Connell)
Subject: Re: What goes around comes around
Organization:  University of Wisconsin Academic Computing Center
Date: 10 APR 92 15:38:24    

In article <92099.164327RBYAML@ROHVM1.BITNET>, Aengus Lawlor <RBYAML@ROHVM1.BITNET> writes...

>The "Troubles" have a great deal to do with the development and survival
>of Celtic culture in Ireland. Irelands attitude to, and support for the
>Irish language is increasingly coloured by official ambivalence to NI.
>It's not very difficult to find people in Dublin who believe that all
>Irish speakers are IRA supporters. When I was in the scouts, 15 years
>ago, we would often sing rebel songs around the campfire. That doesn't
>occur now, which is good from the point of view of progress towards peace
>but bad in that a very rich part of our musical tradition is being lost
>to our young people.
> 

Thank you for making this point!  I guess my distaste for the 
discussions of NI stem from my observation of the worst of them.  The 
sort of anecdote Aengus relates here is just the sort of thing I'd 
like to see more of, rather than disputes over which side in the 
conflict is more to blame for violent acts etc etc.  

>discussion and arguement is, and the difference between arguement and
>bitter arguement? I would contend that if you're not willing to engage
>in valid arguement about your views, you should refrain from sharing
>them with the world. If they're not worth defending, they're not worth
>posting.

This jibes nicely with what I said earlier, I think.  KNee-jerk 
gain-saying about NI is boring and unproductive, whether the parties 
have references for thier points of view or not (IMHO).  Understanding 
how the conflict has shaped who and what and where the Irish are now 
(and where they are going) is interesting (and so is Flann O'Brien :-)).  

>Aengus
>--
>RBYAML@ROHMHAAS.COM                    Aengus Lawlor
>RBYAML@ROHVM1.BITNET                   (who used to be ALAWLOR@DIT.IE)
>"How about some of that famous Dublin wit, Barman?"
>"Certainly, sir. Would that be Dry or Sparkling?"


Kevin
From: oconnell@vms.macc.wisc.edu (Kevin Patrick O'Connell)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.celtic
Subject: Re: Liking Indiana (was Re: Sick'n'tired of the "Troubles"
Date: 8 Apr 92 02:09:21 GMT
Article-I.D.: macc.1992Apr8.022248.7698
Organization: University of Wisconsin Academic Computing Center

In article <92097.080553RBYAML@ROHVM1.BITNET>, Aengus Lawlor <RBYAML@ROHVM1.BITNET> writes...

> 
>(And from somebody who blithely admits that the various foibles of Dev are
>over his head!)
> 
>Aengus
>--
>RBYAML@ROHMHAAS.COM                    Aengus Lawlor
>RBYAML@ROHVM1.BITNET                   (who used to be ALAWLOR@DIT.IE)
>"How about some of that famous Dublin wit, Barman?"
>"Certainly, sir. Would that be Dry or Sparkling?"


After further reflection on this bit of Aengus's post, I'm still 
baffled.  What's the sin in non-familiarity with Eamon(n?) DeValera?
Clearly he played a key role in recent Irish history.  If Aengus 
believes (and rightly) that I have little knowledge of Irish affairs, 
why is he surprised to learn that I know less than he about "Dev" 
(with whom he seems to be rather chummy)?  

I would not like to see this exchange become heated.  Again, I 
apologize for ruffling any feathers.  My earlier statement (to the 
effect of "why are they all fighting--they all look the same to me") 
was more in the tradition of statements like "What if they had a war 
and nobody came?"  Obviously it was taken much more harshly than 
intended, and I am sorry, Aengus, but I stand by John's concern.  
Ireland is more than the NI conflict, and often this group is not.

Kevin
Newsgroups: soc.culture.celtic
From: walker@sun.soe.clarkson.edu (Graham Walker, 227 West Old Main,268-3847,)
Subject: Re: Scotland: Independance v Devolution
Organization: Clarkson University
Date: Fri, 10 Apr 1992 22:11:03 GMT

As i listened to the World service during election night (late evening
over here) the initial feeling was that Scotland was going to be a
"problem" for Major in the next parliment. However, as the evening drew
on, and as a slight swing to the Tories was detected in Scotland, the
concensous was that Scotland would not be an issue for Major to deal
with because "the Scots had shown that then were not interested in these
matters as demonstrated by their lack of support for the SNP." Would
someone in Scotland wish to make a comment on this analysis?

													Graham Walker
From: geraghj@NeXTwork.Rose-Hulman.Edu (John Geraghty)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.celtic
Subject: What goes around comes around
Date: 7 Apr 92 07:24:44 GMT
Article-I.D.: cs.1992Apr7.072444.21041
Reply-To: geraghj@NeXTwork.Rose-Hulman.Edu (John Geraghty)
Organization: Rose-Hulman Institute of Technology


A few weeks back I posted an article to this newsgroup entitled
"Sick'n'tired of the "Troubles" isn't there more to Ireland?". I
expected the replies to flood in...it took a few days but they came.
The first few were encouraging all in agreement with my views. I began
to see hope, a glimmer of light at the end of the tunnel...the birth of
a revolution against the stuck up idealists on this newsgroup who won't
bend or yield an inch....who won't discuss the problems but try to ram
their views down every body else's troaths as if theirs was the only side
of the coin. But sadly I was wrong........how wrong I was

As the days went by and more and more articles were posted in reply my
dream died a slow tortured death. People began to use my views as 
something to argue about and further their own cause - the destruction of
any chance for discussion......My article was never intended to produce
this response, it was intended to encourage people to write about 
(discuss) something that really has something to do with celtic culture or
at least give people an opportunity to hear and discuss the views of
everybody. Instead some people have chosen to use my views as another
opportunity to pick the bones from the carcass and inflict wound upon 
wound until they were satisfied they had totally destroyed any meaning 
that could be possibly gained from the other's views.

Once again I stick my neck out for sanity and beg you to get a life!!!
Before anyone tries to rip this apart on the grounds that I'm not Irish
just another god damn Yank...I've got you there. I was Born and Bred in a  
small town in Co Tipperary in the Republic Of Ireland called Roscrea and  
I'm proud of Jackie Charlton and the Lads. I've only been in the States 
since August and I will be Home soon. Ah I swear to God I'll never 
complain about the Guinness they slop up in the Stables again.

Yes Indiana was fun. Terre Haute has no right to call its self a city
though....It is sadly lacking in facilities for the youth. Also been
only 19 in country that has a drinking age of 21 is no barrel of laughs.
Especially in Terre Haute and I can't say spending a year in an all male
college is my idea of fun either. But besides that I have had a GREAT time

Well here's hoping that not all of what I have said will fall on deaf ears
I am willing to DISCUSS my views. I am not willing however to engage in
bitter argument over my views..
 
Thanks for reading

John Geraghty
**************************************************************************
The views I have expressed are my own. I did not read them in any book
instead I have lived them. They are open to discussion but not to 
argument or deformation of meaning. 
John Geraghty ---- I have fought in the battle of life and survived-so far 
                    anyway
From: billp@pcsbst.pcs.com (Bill Potter)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.celtic
Subject: Election summary
Date: 13 Apr 92 14:10:37 GMT
Reply-To: billp@pcsbst.pcs.com (Bill Potter)
Organization: PCS Computer Systeme GmbH

The following information is gleaned from the Sunday Times

Scotland
========
           Seats         % of Vote       % per seat
Labour     49 (50)       39.0 (42.4)     0.79 (0.84)
SNP         3 (3)        21.5 (14.0)     7.16 (4.66)
LibDem      9 (9)        13.1 (19.2)     1.45 (2.13)
Tory       11 (10)       25.7 (24.0)     2.33 (2.40)

Labour gained Glasgow Govan from SNP
Tory gained Kincardine and Deeside from LibDem
Tory gained Aberdeen South from Labour

Conclusions - 3 out of 5 Scots vote for a socialist party.
            - 3 out of 4 Scots vote non-Tory.
            - England once again dictates the government of Scotland.

Wales
=====

Labour     27 (24)       49.5 (45.1)     1.83 (1.87)
Plaid C.    4 (3)         8.8 (7.3)      2.20 (2.43)
LibDem      1 (3)        12.4 (17.9)    12.40 (5.96)
Tory        6 (8)        28.6 (29.5)     4.76 (3.68)

Labour gained Cardiff Central from Tory
Labour gained Delyn from Tory
Labour gained Pembroke from Tory
Tory gained Brecon & Radnor from LibDem
Tory gained Monmouth from Labour
Tory gained Vale of Glamorgan from Labour
Plaid Cymru gained Cardigan and Pembroke N. from LibDem

Conclusions - Similar to Scotland
            - England once again dictates the government of Wales.
            
N. Ireland
==========

OUP        9 (9)         35.8 (37.8)     2.10 (2.22)
DUP        3 (3)         13.6 (11.7)     4.53 (3.90)
SDLP       4 (3)         22.7 (21.1)     5.67 (7.03)
Sinn Fein  0 (1)         10.3 (11.4)     ---- (11.4)
Alliance   0 (0)          9.1 (10.0)     ---- (----)
Others     1 (1)          8.5  (8.0)     8.50 (8.00)

SDLP gained Belfast West from Sinn Fein

Conclusion - Unionists 58% Nationalists 33% 
           - Carry on arguing

=============================================================================
Bill Potter    : unido!pcsbst!billp       : 
PCS GmbH       : billp@pcsbst.pcs.com     :
D8000 Muenchen : You can't sink a RAINBOW : 
=============================================================================