HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: nusbache@epas.utoronto.ca (Aryk Nusbacher)
Subject: Re: Deportation vs. Murder
Organization: University of Toronto - Office of the Provost
Date: Mon, 21 Dec 1992 20:11:22 GMT

Under international law, it is illegal to deport people against their
will from their country of birth or citizenship.  It is, on the other
hand, quite legal under international law to summarily execute people
in areas under martial law (which includes the Territories).  So it is
indeed illegal to deport these fellows, but it would be legal to hang them.

One more reason why international law is an ass.

Aryk Nusbacher
Not a lawyer, international or otherwise.
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
From: stank@cbnewsl.cb.att.com (Stan Krieger)
Subject: Re: Conversion Question
Organization: Summit NJ
Date: Thu, 24 Dec 1992 15:44:12 GMT

Don Gertler writes:

>What constitutes a Conservative Jew?  Is it that he/she does not
>accept that the Torah was given by G-d to Moshe at Sinai?  Let's
>for the sake of argument, take that definition.  Now, let's also
>say that the O feel that a convert must accept Torah leMoshe miSinai.
>The O may have grounds for feeling that one who does not himself
>accept this tenet cannot be relied upon to impress it upon a convert
>or to question the convert's conviction on this topic.  Now, IF
>all of this were true, would you be have no conflict with O?
>
>Of course, you might like to see further investigation of those
>who claim to be O, since some in this category may also not accept
>TlMmS.

If you want to start another flamefest, you're doing a very good
job with your provocations against your fellow Jews.

The fundamental FACT is that Orthodox Judaism is just one INTERPRETATION
of the Law that God gave us ALL at Mount Sinai.  The R and C observe
the same Law that you observe, consistent with their LEGITIMATE
INTERPRETATIONS of it!

So do us all a favor and stop preaching to us about how only your sect
observes God's Law.  And to also save time, when you start asking
how "A", "B", or "C" can be valid interpretations when the Torah says
something different, we can easily answer that the Torah also says "D",
"E", and "F", but we don't see those as part of your observance of
Judaism today.

Finally, please save your flames for our common enemies.
-- 
Stan Krieger                 All opinions, advice, or suggestions, even
UNIX System Laboratories     if related to my employment, are my own.
Summit, NJ
smk@usl.com
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
From: nusbache@epas.utoronto.ca (Aryk Nusbacher)
Subject: Re: Entertaining suggestions for responses to "Merry Christmas"
Organization: University of Toronto - Office of the Provost
Date: Mon, 21 Dec 1992 19:59:36 GMT

In article <1992Dec20.125346.24650@cbnewsk.cb.att.com> avigross@cbnewsk.cb.att.com (avi.e.gross) writes:

>The space in "Christ Mass" is intentional and I pronounce it as two words
>so it does not rhyme with Christmas. Whether or not many people think of
>it that way, for a serious Christian the real event is supposed to
>represent a "Mass" (as in Catholic Mass) to represent the supposed birthday
>of "Christ". The derivation of the word is obviously ignored by many
>people. I remember my Catholic friends going to a somewhat redundant
>"Christmas Mass!"


Early Protestants made a point of calling the holiday "Christ-tide"
to emphasise the fact that they weren't celebrating the Mass at the
same time.

Aryk

Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
From: kgivon@silver.ucs.indiana.edu (karen lee givon)
Subject: Re: Inquiry
Organization: Indiana University
Date: Sun, 3 Jan 1993 04:57:23 GMT

In article <765332d4919401t196@witsend.uucp> "D. C. Sessions" <dcs@witsend.tnet.com> writes:
>In <1992Dec17.110530.27933@news.weeg.uiowa.edu>, muskudar@news.weeg.uiowa.edu (Michael Uskudarli)  wrote:
># 1) I was told by a muslim that a muslim can eat anything that is Kosher for
># a jewish person. Ias this true? If it is I am dumbfounded. Thinking that for
># a person (muslim) who regards another person ( a jew) as an arch enemy
># and than to claim that since the torah was actually correct at first and
># than corrupted that they can eat what you can. Do you find this utterly
># weird?
>
>  Not really, and neither dis the (VERY traditional) Egyptian family
>  we had as Thanksgiving guests a couple of years ago.  They were
>  glad to get a meat meal in the wilds of North Alabama, and all we
>  had to do was leave the wind out of the recipes.  Fair trade.
>
>  It was sort of interesting, in many ways.  We left the politics
>  off the agenda, in much the same way that my family did when I
>  was in my radical days; agreeing that we disagreed and it shouldn't
>  get in the way of a family reunion (Abraham, right?)  They had
>  rather considerately done some research in advance and admitted
>  being surprised at the amount of shared customs, such as ritually
>  washing before meals.  It really helped!
>
I was eating dinner once with a Muslim Arab friend of mine and we were
discussing the similarities of Islam and Judaism.  He quoted an old
saying that he had heard in his country, Yemen:

it was something like--Eat with Jews and sleep with Christians.
Meaning that a Muslim can trust a Jew's food but cannot trust a Jew
enough to sleep in the same house with him.

-Keren

># 3) Is it true that in order to be a Jew, you must be born into it?
>
>  This would have been most distressing to both Abraham and Ruth!
>
>--- D. C. Sessions                            Speaking for myself ---
>--- Note new network address:                dcs@witsend.tnet.com ---
>--- Author (and everything else!) of TMail  (DOS mail/news shell) ---


Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
From: dkhaikin@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (Dmitry Khaikin)
Subject: Re: Vijay Bhucha: JESUS IS NOT A MESSAYA!
Organization: The Ohio State University
Date: Mon, 21 Dec 1992 17:04:17 GMT

In article <1992Dec21.141801.1174@bony1.bony.com> billg@bony1.bony.com (Bill Gripp) writes:
>In article <1992Dec21.011549.25512@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu> dkhaikin@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (Dmitry Khaikin) writes:
>>In article <1992Dec17.211704.26231@bony1.bony.com> billg@bony1.bony.com (Bill Gripp) writes:
>>>In article <4574@bimacs.BITNET> ehrlich@bimacs.BITNET (Gideon Ehrlich) writes:
>>>
>>>>A messayah is supposed to purify the hearts of people , at least of
>>>>those follow him , writting the above jesus stuff to this forum is an
>>>>immoral behaveiour. Since Vijay defines himself as a jesus follower
>>>>his very writting is a demonstrating of an un pure jesus-follower hart
>>>>and hence it is is a declaration that Jesus is not a messayah.
>
>>>This is akin to saying that Judaism is invalid because of the Babylonian
>>>captivity, the Diaspora, etc.  Should we say Judaism is invalid becuase
>>>the people worshipped the golden calf?  I note you are in the Math Dept, 
>>>I hope you don't teach logic.  =|^)
>
>>I think his logic is pretty good. See, yo missed one very important
>>thing. Yes, they did worship an idol, but noby says that there was a
>>meshiach then either. Moshiah has not come yet, and 'j' is certainly not
>>the moshiach and his argument is pretty good.
>
>The point is that Gideon says that Religion "X" is invalid because
>someone who professes to follow "X" does so imperfectly.  All I'm saying
>is that this is true for ANY and ALL religions (i.e. there are those who
>say they follow "Y" but do so imperfectly) and is therefore an
>invalid arguement (unless you are trying to prove that all religions are
>invalid  =B^]).

That's not what he originally said. What he said was that if j is the
moshiah then how come there is no peace in this world and so on...
That's different. Jews never said that everybody's heart should be pure!
The moshiah is not here, so, it should not be! 

>
>
>>Happy Chanukkah,
>
>Likewise to all in s.c.j.

CHappy Chanukkahhhhhh,
Dima
-- 
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
  "A word is worth one coin; silence is worth two."_____ The Talmud.
  "Silence is good everywhere, except in connection with Torah."____ The Zohar.
  dkhaikin@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu  ( Dmitry Khaikin, Columbus Ohio )
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish,soc.culture.arabic,talk.politics.mideast
From: msilverm@nyx.cs.du.edu (Mike Silverman)
Subject: Re: Name of Palestinian Deportees (part i)
Organization: University of Denver, Dept. of Math & Comp. Sci.
Date: Sat, 26 Dec 92 18:08:50 GMT

You know, you could take a list of the top 50 people in the
the German National Socialism movement of, say 1939 or so
and give their resumes as well, and it would look just as 
impressive as the list of the jobs of the Hamas members
deported to Lebanon.


--
msilverm@nyx.cs.du.edu				GO CUBS!!!

"One likes to believe in the freedom of baseball" - Geddy Lee
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
From: MASH@WEIZMANN.WEIZMANN.AC.IL (Michael Shimshoni)
Subject: Re: Kahane's philosophy
Organization: Mail to News Gateway at Wang Labs
Date: Sun, 27 Dec 1992 15:54:40 GMT

In: <1992Dec27.011755.23978@ennews.eas.asu.edu>
makowsky@enuxhb.eas.asu.edu (David Makowsky) writes:

>In article <3107@israel.nysernet.org> warren@nysernet.org writes:
>
># In <1992Dec18.012721.23664@ennews.eas.asu.edu> makowsky@enuxhb.eas.asu.edu
>(David Makowsky) writes:
>
># me: If an action was objectionable when Jews were the recipient, it
># me: remains objectionable if another ethnic group is, with Jews those
># me: doing it.  Since I agree neither to the expulsion/disenfranchisement
># me: of Israeli citizens based on their religion/ethnicity, nor to the
># me: disbandment of the Jewish State, I prefer other solutions.
>
># > I prefer other solutions also.  Unfortunately, they don't exist.
>
To this replied Warren:

># Were I convinced of this, I would have stayed in the US.
>
>	I would like to be convinced of this also.  What are these other
>solutions?

Is that  the reason that  while Warren posts from  Jerusalem, Makowsky
posts from America.  A careful person that Makowsky....

>makowsky@enuxhb.eas.asu.edu

 Michael Shimshoni
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
From: drukier@cast0.ast.cam.ac.uk (Gordon Drukier)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
Subject: Re: Synagogue MUSIC
Date: 1 Jan 93 11:29:32 GMT
Organization: Institute of Astronomy, Cambridge

In article <4821@moscom.com> de@moscom.com (David Esan) writes:
>In article <VICTOR.92Dec28111023@terse.watson.ibm.com> victor@watson.ibm.com writes:
>>that it was "It's a Small World" (from Disneyland/world).  I asked the
>>chazan about it afterwards.  He told me that, in fact, his family also
>>uses it for Shir Ha'maalot before the Birchat Ha'mazon on shabbat and
>>yom-tov.  I tried it, and it works!
>
>I always felt that "It's a Small World" could drive a person insane if they
>were exposed to it long enough.  I can't imagine it for davening.
>
>My kids used it their Day School Kindergarten graduation: "Ze Olam Katan M'od",
>and I had to listen to them practice and practice ...   I'm better now, 
>thank you.
>
>One of the tunes we adopted to Shir HaMa'alot was "Erie Canal" (I had an
>old mule and her name was Sal, Fifteen Miles on the Erie Canal.)  Fit in 
>well with the second grade history of New York State.  Helps that the Erie
>Canal once ran less than a mile from our house.
>
>I also like the Niggun used by Salah, in the movie by the save name.  
>
>Any other tunes?

Over the Rainbow works beautifully. Especially for Shabbas Noach. :)
>-- 
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> -->     David Esan      de@moscom.com  
> 
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------


-- 
Gordon                             Institute of Astronomy
drukier@mail.ast.cam.ac.uk         University of Cambridge
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish,soc.culture.arabic
From: makowsky@enuxhb.eas.asu.edu (David Makowsky)
Subject: Re: ERETZ YISRAEL (was Re: deportation)
Reply-To: makowsky@enuxhb.eas.asu.edu (David Makowsky)
Organization: Arizona State University, Tempe AZ
Date: Thu, 31 Dec 1992 23:41:07 GMT

In article <532@owl.ukc.ac.uk> dat@ukc.ac.uk (D.A.Turner) writes:

# In article <1hni0gINN4jb@pita.cs.huji.ac.il> Hillel Applebaum writes:

# >Pls tell me if I'm wrong. 
# >I think that regardless to been a left/right winger,
# >all religious Israelis/jews knew that ERETZ YISRAEL 
# >is the homeland of jews and no other nation. The only
# >thing they might disagree about is wheather is worth 
# >trading parts of it for peace.
 
# No, I think this is open to dispute.  In two respects.
 
# 1) I am a British Jew.  My homeland is Britain.  The homeland of Swedish
# Jews  is Sweden, and so on.  Exactly the same as for British and Swedish
# Baptists, or Catholics.

	German Jews thought the same.  Until they found out otherwise.  I
could use other examples, but I should not have to.  Your denial of
your Jewish identity can only serve to hurt you.

# Judaism is a religion, not a nationality.  Most
# Jews  live  in  the  diaspora,  and show no signs of moving - nor should
# they.  Their homeland is the country they are living in.

	However you want to define it, Jews are a people who share a lot,
including a common heritage.  Part of this heritage is ownership of
Israel.  That is part of my heritage, and nothing you say can take it
away from me or any other Jew.

# 2) Unfortunately what you call Eretz Yisreal has almost exactly the same
# boundaries  as  historic  Palestine.   The  Palestinians lived in it for
# thirteen centuries, without doing Jews or anyone else any harm,  and  it
# is  their homeland.  They have no other homeland.  You are a settler - a
# colonist - in another people's land.


	There never was any kind of a State of "plaestine?"!  How often
does this have to be repeated?
--
	There are three types of people in the world.  Those that are good
at math and those that are not.

makowsky@enuxhb.eas.asu.edu
Organization: The American University - University Computing Center
Date: Wed, 23 Dec 1992 16:30:36 EST
From: <CARIAN@auvm.american.edu>
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
Subject: Re: Jewish Christmas Carol Hits

In article <1992Dec23.192309.9329@cbnewsl.cb.att.com>, saal@cbnewsl.cb.att.com
(samuel.saal) says:
>
>In article <72286@cup.portal.com> Arthur_T_Hu@cup.portal.com writes:
>
>>music, and a buck is a buck. Was there ever a Hanakuh hit record?
>
>I understand Tom Lehrer had a song "I'm spending Chanuka in Santa Monica."
>
>I wish I could get a copy of it.  Anyone else even heard of this one?

I not only heard *of* it, I *heard* it, though not the original.
It was sung by a woman singer on Garrison Keillor's recent Xmas
special, which I listened to in the car last Sunday on the way to the
DC/Balt. SCJ gathering. In fact it was so good, the singer had to sing
it twice. I don't remember too much of it but there were lines about
spending Shavuous in East St. Louis and Yom Kippur down in Mississippur.

OK, I've just now publicly admitted listening to Xmas songs on the radio,
and to listening to Kol Isha as well.

Rabbi Charles Arian
CARIAN@american.edu
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
From: hem@col400.att.com (Hillel E. Markowitz)
Subject: Re: Consultations with a Rabbi
Originator: news@cbnewsf.cb.att.com
Organization: AT&T Federal Systems
Date: Wed, 30 Dec 1992 16:01:02 GMT

[deletions to save bandwidth]

In article <6625@pdxgate.UUCP> a0cb@rigel.cs.pdx.edu (Chris Bertholf) writes:
>saal@cbnewsl.cb.att.com (samuel.saal) writes:
>
>>In article <6595@pdxgate.UUCP> a0cb@odin.cc.pdx.edu (Chris Bertholf) writes:
>
>>>Yes. Close your ears and eyes.  Don't listen. Don't think about how
>
>>It is not an issue of rejecting without understanding.  How many times
>>must I read the same stuff with the same fraud before I can reject it
>>from its first sentence?  Why bother reading it after the Nth time?  Why
>
>You are saying that there is a writing (call it P) and that there is another
>writing (call it Q) such that if you have read P, and Q is on the same topic,
>although by a different author with possibly different resources and sources,
>that you know the contents of Q from P.  BWAHHH HAAA HAAAA HAAA! Too funny!
>
>You also call it "the same stuff with the same fraud" without having any
>idea what the document contains.
>
>Get a grip, then repost something intelligent.

Instead of P or Q try something specific.

The Earth is flat because A. B. C. D. E. F. (how far must you read)

Isaiah 7:14 refers to a "virgin" because A. B. C. D.

How far do you have to read before realizing that it is the same
old garbage that has been disproven many times before.  People
get tired of having to repeat the same answers and seeing them
ignored for the next time.
-- 
____________________________________________________
| Hillel Markowitz    |     Im ain ani li mi li    |
| H_Markowitz@att.com | Veahavta Leraiecha Kamocha |
|_____________________|____________________________|
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
From: ask@cbnews.cb.att.com (Arthur S. Kamlet)
Subject: Re: Conversion Question
Organization: AT&T Bell Laboratories,  Columbus, Ohio
Date: Wed, 30 Dec 1992 20:56:38 GMT

In article <294kwB6w165w@cybernet.cse.fau.edu> waldo@cybernet.cse.fau.edu (Todd J. Dicker) writes:
>> >cohen@quartz.ciw.edu (Ronald Cohen) writes:
>> >What constitutes a Conservative Jew?  
>> I guess someone who doesn't accept fundamentalism.
>> 
>> >Is it that he/she does not
>> >accept that the Torah was given by G-d to Moshe at Sinai?  
>-----
>I haven't been following this thread.  Has anybody answered this question 
>yet?  If not, a discussion of Conservative theology might be interesting.

I certainly agree it would be interesting.  Interesting enough to
fill several books, such as Isaac Klein's excellent summary of
Conservative Judiasm, or the older Mordechai Waxman "Tradition &
Change" and many more.

ANd for only $20 a year you can subscribe to the very readable Journal
"Conservative Judasim."   You don't even have to be a conservative
Jew :^)

For an extremely brief, and not sufficiently well described summary
for people with only a few minutes to absorb the basics, the United
Synagogue for Conservative Judaism published a pamphlet called
"Emet v'emunah" (from the song of the same name:^) -- roughly Truth
& Faith.

What has been said above -- that conservtaive Judasim isn't a
fundamentalistic adherence is pretty much true.

Conservative Rabbinical authorities share a basic belief that the
Torah is divinely inspired; it cannot be ignored on a whim or an
internal feeling.  Furthermore, Halacha and the principles on which
Halacha evolved over the centuries, including the fact that some
authorities held differing opinions and these differing opinions
from time to time constituted how the law was followed at the time,
continues to this day.  As new situations arise, the law is examined
and interpreted in accordance with Halacha.

So you would see responsa issued from time to time, which more
orthodox authorities are unwilling to accept.  These include
opinions concerning use of electricity on Shabbat, women's role in
the rabbbinate, in davening, in leading the services, and in the
minyan, and rules relating to dietary laws, to mention just a few.

But I really recommend you sit down with a conservative rabbi for an
hour or so, and begin to have a good discussion along these lines.
I am not a rabbi, not a spokesperson for conservative Judaism, and
cannot begin to do justice to such an important subject in a newsgroup.
-- 
Art Kamlet  a_s_kamlet@att.com  AT&T Bell Laboratories, Columbus
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish,misc.headlines,talk.politics.misc,misc.legal
From: nmiller@starbase.trincoll.edu (norman miller)
Subject: Re: ACLU/AJC Menorah Police?
Organization: Trinity College, Hartford, CT.
Date: Wed, 23 Dec 1992 15:10:31 GMT

In article <1992Dec23.130531.26701@cbfsb.cb.att.com> colten@cbnewsb.cb.att.com (
marc.colten) asks:

>Now, what is the public going to remember - that the Klan put the
>cross up, or (and I'm guessing here) that a Jew tore it down?

I don't know the answer to that, but here's what I wish some of
our readers on s.c.j. would remember: the words of the chief
of police:

>"They're more than welcome to make arrangements with us to put
>up another cross," he said.  "They do have a permit ..."

I hope I'm wrong, but I see in this a hint of the bitter fruit we'll
all be tasting as a result of Habad's mischief.

Norman Miller
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
From: saal@cbnewsl.cb.att.com (samuel.saal)
Subject: Re: Jewish STEREOTYPES - the last time
Organization: AT&T
Distribution: usa
Date: Mon, 21 Dec 1992 14:57:17 GMT

I tried sending this by private mail but it bounced.

In article <1992Dec18.172759.14745@elroy.jpl.nasa.gov>
seth@inst-sun1.tmc.edu (Seth Chazanoff) writes:

>posted a Holocaust joke a couple of minutes ago.  I read it in a book entitled
>"Humor in Hell."

Could ypou please send more information on this book? Author, publisher,
date publised, etc would be appreciated.
-- 
Sam Saal      kingfish!saal OR saal@kingfish.att.com
	Vayiftach HaShem et Peah Ha`Aton
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
From: aaldoubo@copper.denver.colorado.edu (Shaqeeqa)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
Subject: Re: Disturbing comments
Date: 4 Jan 93 02:13:45 GMT
Organization: University of Colorado at Denver

In article <6630@pdxgate.UUCP> a0cb@odin.cc.pdx.edu (Chris Bertholf) writes:
>:In article <CPLS13-181292133056@145.1.92.160> CPLS13@email.mot.com (Steven_Cohn) writes:
>
>>What I see here is the ramblings of anti-semitism!  It is no secret that the
> ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>>parent companies of Prodigy have a strong Jewish backing.  And with a name
>>like "Imran Anwar", it does not surprise me that you should have such a hate
>>for anything that smells Jewish.  In fact, I have a very good Lebanese friend

>Here we go again!  A person with an Arabic surname has an opinion about a
>consumer service.  Of course, we all know that there is Jewish involvement
>with the company, thus so must have the person with the Arabic surname.
>And, obviously, his rambling MUST BE anti-semitic, since he has this
>Arabic surname and has made a general statement of his satisfaction as
>a consumer with a company that has some Jewish backing.
>Do you realize how paranoid you are!
>Sick! Really sick and twisted.


Not only that, but by making such type of character judgements and falsely
accusing someone without proof is slander and should not be tolerated to
any degree.   I was not familiar with the "Jewish involvement with the
company" (perhaps you would like to explain), but a person's personal
opionion on the product itself has no reflection on the participants who
produces it.  And as you said, just because the person carries an Arabic
name promotes such attacks.  Its just an excuse to openly express racism
and hatred with 'justifiable cause'.


Anisa
Date: Sunday, 20 December 1992 11:10:37 MST
X-Mailer: TMail version 1.15R
From: "D. C. Sessions" <dcs@witsend.tnet.com>
Organization: Nobody but me -- really
Subject: Re: Venison
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
Distribution: world

Sheesh!  No sooner does the "Oral Sex" thread die than
someone asks about eating his deer.

Kosher venison isn't all that hard to get if you have the doe.

--- D. C. Sessions                            Speaking for myself ---
--- Note new network address:                dcs@witsend.tnet.com ---
--- Author (and everything else!) of TMail  (DOS mail/news shell) ---
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish