From: pharvey@quack.sac.ca.us (Paul Harvey)
Subject: Re: Isaiah does not prophesy Christ
Organization: The Duck Pond public unix: +1 408 249 9630, log in as 'guest'.
	<765330d3663354t188@witsend.uucp>
Date: 20 Dec 1992 03:30:29 UTC

In article <765330d3663354t188@witsend.uucp> 
"D. C. Sessions" <dcs@witsend.tnet.com> writes:
>In <78497@hydra.gatech.EDU>, rpitts@emperor.gatech.edu (Richard Pitts) wrote:
># In article <fWFaqVV@quack.sac.ca.us> 
pharvey@quack.sac.ca.us (Paul Harvey) writes:
># >Only when poorly translated does Isaiah prophesy Christ.
># Are you referring to all of Isaiah?
># Or do you mean the verse that says something to the effect of "for unto
># you a child is born and the government shall be upon his shoulders
># and he shall be called Wonderful Counselor, Mighty God, Everlasting
># Father, Prince of Peace and his kingdom will see no end" - is this
># the verse you are referring to?
>  Dear me.  Please check with your local Xtian scholar; last I heard
>  even they admitted that this one was CONTEMPORARY.  Isiah was
>  referring to a child even then in utero.  Present tense, folks.
>  The Xian versions are derived from a long history of translation
>  going beck to the Septuagint.  Unfortunately, several gross
>  misquotes made it into the Xian scriptures and ever since Xian
>  translators have had to doctor their work to make everything fit.
>  The best-known example immediately precedes the verse you cite,
>  where Xian translators squirm around the fact that Isaiah does
>  NOT say "virgin" despite Xian doctrine.  Oops.

The famous "virgin" verse is a fun one too, let's do it!

Isaiah7:10(KJV): Moreover, the LORD spake again unto Ahaz, saying, (11)
Ask thee a sign of the LORD thy God; ask it either in the depth, or in
the height above. (12) But Ahaz said, I will not ask, neither will I
tempt the LORD. (13) And he said, Hear ye now, O house of David; *It is*
a small thing for you to weary men, but will ye weary my God also? (14)
Therefore the LORD himself shall give you a sign; Behold, a virgin shall
conceive, and bear a son, and shall call his name Immanuel. (15) Butter
and honey shall he eat, that he may know to refuse the evil, and choose
the good. (16) For before the child shall know to refuse the evil, and
choose the good, the land that thou abhorrest shall be forsaken of both
her kings. (17) The LORD shall bring upon thee, and upon thy people, and
upon thy father's house, days that have not come, from the day that
Ephraim departed from Judah; *even* the king of Assyria.

Isaiah7:10(JPS): The LORD spoke further to Ahaz: (11) "Ask for a sign
from the LORD your God, anywhere down to Sheol or up to the sky." (12)
But Ahaz replied, "I will not ask, and I will not test the LORD." (13)
"Listen, House of David," [Isaiah] retorted, "is it not enough for you
to treat men as helpless that you also treat my God as helpless?(f) (14)
Assuredly, my LORD will give you a sign of His own accord! Look, the
young woman is with child and about to give birth to a son. Let her name
him Immanuel.(g) (15) (By the time he learns to reject the bad and
choose the good, people will be feeding on curds and honey.) (16) For
before the lad knows to reject the bad and choose the good, the ground
whose two kings you dread shall be abandoned. (17) The LORD will cause
to come upon you and your people and your ancestral house such days as
never have come since Ephraim turned away from Judah - that selfsame
king of Assyria!(h)
----
f: By insisting on soliciting the aid of Assyria (see 2Kings16.7 ff; cf.
below, v.20). "Treat as helpless" follows the translation of Saadia; cf.
Gen19.11.
g: Meaning "with us is God."
h: Cf. note on v.13.

># Oh, It seems that I keep missing your (PH's) explanation.  Why is it 
># that this JPS translation is superior to say the NASB or NIV or even
># the KJV?  
># It seems that you believe/know that these translators of the JPS
># have mastered both Hebrew and English, but yet no one else seems
># to be able to do that.  

G, good questions Richard! Got any ideas yet!
Newsgroups: talk.religion.misc,talk.religion.newage