From: thietaniemi@cc.helsinki.fi
Newsgroups: soc.culture.soviet
Subject: Re: "democratic" Estonia
Date: 11 Sep 92 10:00:50 GMT
Organization: University of Helsinki

In article <18nvo5INNdvd@agate.berkeley.edu>, muh@physics.Berkeley.EDU 
(Yury M. Mukharsky) writes:

> When Finland became independend, what did you do with your
> Swedes? Did you ask those long-time occupants of your land to learn Finnish,
> before they can become citizens. No, they became citizens automatically.
> ( you even where not satisfied with amount you have and got a hefty 
> extra at Allans :) ). Their language became second official language.
> And there are much less Swedes in Finland (at least now) than Russians
> in Estonia.

These questions were not directed to me, but I can't resist the temptation
of clearing some profound misunderstandings that are involved here:
- Fist: As Finland became independent, is was a Grand Duchy of Finland,
an autonomous part of the Russian Empire. The most widely used
language in the administration was SWEDISH. All educated finns
spoke swedish. Even the national (finnish) resurrection was initially
started by the swedish-speaking population:

Like one nationalistic thinker, Arwidsson formulated it in the
20'ies of the previous century:

"We are not Swedes,
We will not become Russians,
Let us be Finns!"

Coinincidentally, he said that famous passus IN SWEDISH!

(Such thoughts were considered to be too radical by the Nicolaus I
administration, and Arvidsson spent the remaining part of his life
in exile in Sweden).

But in the beginning, the "Finnish" movement in Finland consisted mostly
of Swedes in Finland, that WERE, OF COURSE, citizens of the Grand
Duchy and loyal subjects of the Czar, that even promoted the
Finnish cultural development (later, from the times of Alexander II)! 

The Swedes in Finland had ALWAYS THE CITIZENSHIP. This and the
previous Swedish legislation was granted by the Czar Alexander
I in 1809, as he came to Finland, and promised to

"raise Finland in to the rank of nations".

Coincidentally, he said this in FRENCH.

During the 19th century *FINNISH* BECAME GRADUALLY THE SECOND OFFICIAL
LANGUAGE.

I consider Finland to be one of the great examples of bilingualism
in Europe: our legislation on language is a marvellous example to
other Eastern Europeans (Finland belongs to North-Eastern Europe).

Fortunately, the Estonian Law on Language was partly copied from
the Finnish legislation and grants a lot of rights to Russian
in Estonia!
I could gladly clarify this later on more thoroughly, IF somebody out there
actually is interested in FACTS about Estonia.

I am deeply convinced that the language regulations in Estonia should
be arranged in the very same manner as in contemporary Finland
(I will post more information about this later!).

 
> Also this repeating of "Ah occupants, ah occupants" does not make any sense
> Who are not. Finns? Look thousand something years ago. Americans? Germans?
> We all are occupants living on occupied territories.

No, we are not!

Of course the History is a horror story about deep injustices. But that
is exactly why during this century we Europeans and Americans created 
organizations like the League of Nations and the United Nations. We should 
support them and not accept any occupation of states accepted by the 
international community.

The Sovietunion commited injustice against the international law when
it occupied a country that was a member of the League of nations!
Therefore, it is an occupation with a totally different sense of the
term than "the occupation of Siberia" by Russians during the centuries
(with many injustices and cruelties, partly peacefully).

When the Baltic states will be re-established, perhaps the we might gladly
state that the Second World War is over.

> My point is that occupation was more or less forgotten in USSR. 

Indeed! Even the contemporary democratic Jeltsin government denies
that the SU ever "occupied" Estonia! And the Estonians will not accept
that there never was any occupation - that's the main problem causing
deep problems in nowadays Russo-Estonian negotiations.


 > I think that for people abroad ocuupation
> of Estonia was much more important than for Estonians themselfs. It is
> very uncomfortable to live with the idea that you are occupied or occupiing.
> People tend to forget, cast away this thought. After you are independend,
> of course, it is time to remeber, that you were brave and overcame occupation.

I totally agree.
 
> The point is not that those Russians should be easier accepted as citizens,
> the point is that it's should be automatical. They are there to stay.

Most of them are in Estonia to stay. They should get the citizenship
as easy as possible. Those who will stay but remain, say, citizens
of Russia or Ukraine, should have almost the same rights as citizens
(expect voting in state elections and such things). Fortunately, the
adapted new election gives the non-citizens the most important basic
rights.
(I could specify this further when necessary, since I have the constitution:
but don't take it just from me: the minority and non-citizen regulations were
scrutinized by the European Council: Estonia will be accepted to
take part of the activities of the European Council, it is accepted
to be "democratic enough").

> Only very stupid peoples starts new life with there roommates from quarrel,
> who is the boss. Fortunately not all Estonians are like that. The leader
> of National Front party seems to be decent guy.

I suppose you mean Savisaar, the chairman of the centrist people's party,
that is a part of national front.
I totally agree:
The first step towards an understanding around the Gulf of Finland
is recognizing that there are different political parties and
political programmes in Estonia! Speaking of "Estonians" en bloc
politically causes just misunderstandings.

I will post more information on Savisaar in the very near future.


> As for information, Jarmo, you should learn Russian saying: "Zapretnyj
> plod sladok". I would guess that average educated Russian have more information
> than average educated Finn. At least judging by some representatives :).
> 
> Yury

Well, that was directed to Jarmo.
I don't know about an "average Finn", but here in Helsinki it's quite
easy to find people like me:
I read regularly some Finnish newspapers (in finnish and swedish),
I work through every week my Der Spiegel and the Economist,
I watch regularly Finnish TV, Estonian TV, Moscow TV, Swedish TV,
3Sat (Germany) and CNN (from Atlanta).

Just how well informed the average educated Russians actually are?
I'll raise my hat!

with best regards

Tapani Hietaniemi, University of Helsinki

Our common aim: Peace, multiculturality, democracy and prosperity
around the Gulf of Finland!