From: parsons@cis.ksu.edu (Scott S Parish )
Newsgroups: alt.atheism
Subject: Re: Weekly bible lesson (have an open mind!)
Date: 12 Jan 93 08:07:18 GMT
Organization: Kansas State University
NNTP-Posting-Host: cygnus.cis.ksu.edu

ethridge@crchh403 (Allen Ethridge) writes:

>Scott S Parish (parsons@cis.ksu.edu) wrote:
>: dgray@menudo.uh.edu (Dennis Gray Jr.) writes:
>: 
>: >Our lesson this week comes from First Samuel chapter 25:
>: [Deletions.]
>: [More deletions.] 

>So, like, according to Christianity, it's OK for me to kill somebody if
>i'm first kind to him and then he insults me?

So, in this story do we ever read God condoning or condemning it?

>Even with this additional explanation it still comes down to David and
>his people killing and stealing from Nabal and his people over a disagreement.
>In civilized societies this is considered criminal.  It follows, then, that
>the Christian god condones murder and theft, at least when it serves his
>purposes.

No, it does not follow from this story.  First, the intent (of David for
retribution, for lack of better terminology) was there, but the act was
never committed.  David flew off the handle, but later calmed down
after Abigal talked to him (v.33).  In fact, in v.34 David attributes
his being stopped to God.  Also, we never hear from God 'directly' 
concerning this little episode.  So without the 'crime' being commited
and no testimony from our 'witness,' we can't conclude what God thought
from reading the story.  If you can, then please show your reasoning.

Now, as for the "Christian God condones murder and theft, at least when 
it serves his purposes", bit...  You do truely show ignorance of the 
nature of God.  This can be disproved in the story of David and Bathsheba, 
where murder (David plans the death of Bathsheba's husband) and theft (in 
a sense, David steals Bathsheba) are both involved, and both are condemned 
and punished.  (If you want to read it for yourself it's 1 Samuel 11-12.)  
Now, I guess you could argue that "it [didn't] serve his purposes."  But 
as far as the story in 1 Samuel 25 or in any other instance, YOU would 
have to prove that God condoned it and it suited his purposes since you
are making the positive assertion in this case.  Based on other "rulings" 
and on Commandments 6 & 8, God does not condone murder or theft.

>Or are you saying that morality is relative? 
Is *all* morality relative?  No, but there are absolutes.
 
>Is it a Christian belief that morality changes from culture to culture 
>and society to society?  
There are some things that are attributable to culture, a noteable cultural 
mores? that most Christians today do not practice is found in 1 Corinthians,
chapter 11:  women covering their head in church.  Or even today, Christians
quibble over alcohol, dancing, card playing, and the like.  All of these are
cultural and sub-cultural within the Christian church.  But like I said there 
are absolutes that are universal.

>There are no god-given absolute morals?
Yes.  The absolutes are addressed in the first five books of the Bible.
If you want to get condensed there are 10 of them.

-- 
Scott Parish                |  The Truth is still the Truth      |  John 14:6
parsons@cygnus.cis.ksu.edu  |  even if you choose to ignore it.  |