From: doconnor@sedona.intel.com (Dennis O'Connor)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: War vs Tourney
Date: 17 Dec 92 08:37:11
Organization: Intel i960(tm) Architecture
Distribution: world, na, usa, local
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In-reply-to: 00mjstum@leo.bsuvc.bsu.edu's message of 16 Dec 92 21:55:41 GMT


00mjstum@leo.bsuvc.bsu.edu (Matthew J. Stum) writes:
] Dennis O'Connor writes:
] > 
] > 00mjstum@leo.bsuvc.bsu.edu (Matthew J. Stum) writes:
] > ] To me, SCA combat is truly _tournament_ combat... not _war_ combat.
] > 
] > To me, SCA tourneys are just one more way to practice for war.
] > War fighting is a lot more fun : out there with your unit,
] > immersed in the swirl and crush of armoured combat.
]
] Let me comment... when I said "SCA combat" I did indeed mean both SCA
] "tournaments" and SCA "wars".  I don't distinguish between the two.
] Our "wars" are, after all, closer to early medieval tournaments than medieval
] wars anyway... at least that's my understanding.  I could be wrong...

The numbers at major SCA wars are comparable to many period battles,
especially early in the period.

] > Maybe this is at the root of some of the misunderstandings
] > about armour I've been a party too : I armour for war,
] > not for tourneys. And I armour to survive my part in war ..
]
] So this raises another question:  Do people have a blow calibration for
] one-on-one combat and another for melee combat?  I've never made a distinction
] when I fight.  I thought we were all wearing leather (or is it mail?) armor
] and open-faced helms... no matter who or what we're fighting?

Yes, there is a de-facto difference in calibration for war, I think.
War is very confusing, and very exciting. Even the most experienced
and chivalrous fighters I know just don't NOTICE some blows when they
are in a melee, most especially when the blow comes from an unexpected
quarter (like an enemy archer). This is human psychology, and I'm not
sure you can do anything about it.

] How does one "armor to survive" a melee any more than one does for a
] tournament?  Or by "survive" do you mean the fatigue factor rather?

I literally mean survive, as in no broken bones or major bruises.
You will get run-over, shoved around, stepped on, fallen on,
thrown about like a rag-doll, hit by three great weapons at once
and in other ways mauled as part of a war. These things don't
happen in tourneys.

] If I took a _true_ war mentality, I'd be frightened of the results...
] "It's me, or him.  I have to do anything to survive, no matter how dirty.
] Unless, of course, he's ransomable... and then I'll leave him to someone
] better suited to subdue him."

Well, we do this a little : killing from behind (although we're polite 
about it), killing people on the ground (again, we're polite), mobbing 
people (two doors and a pole equals one white belt, usually), running people
over (ah, the clash of the shield walls!). None of this is acceptable
tourney behavior, of course. Safety seems the limit more than chivalry
in war. The opposite seems true of many tourney fights.

--
Dennis O'Connor			doconnor@sedona.intel.com
From: larrylf@hpcc01.corp.hp.com (Larry Lynch-Freshner)
Date: Sat, 12 Dec 1992 04:17:13 GMT
Subject: Re: Children in the sca
Organization: the HP Corporate notes server