HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: moroney@ramblr.enet.dec.com
Subject: Re: Ammonium Nitrate
Organization: Digital Equipment Corporation
Date: Wed, 11 Nov 1992 03:15:24 GMT

In article <1992Nov10.214501.18512@chpc.org>, rboudrie@chpc.org (Rob Boudrie) writes...
>Does this mean that those wonderful exploding targets made by the John
>Drapkus company in Ct will be going off the market?  [ these targets are
>self adgesive 2" squared of 1/2 inch thick styrofoam with a 1" hole
>in the center, filled with flash powder and covered by cardboard on
>each side.  One side has a red dot; the other double sided tape.  You
>really notice when 9ou shoot one of these!!! ]

First, I don't think they're flash, but something more sensitive for more
reliable operation.  Something that's also less static sensitive, if they
put the things in styrofoam.

Second, 50mg or less flash in a "device" is still class C, else no more
firecrackers.

Are completed salutes still B?  A shell with a bottom shot?  Is there a size
limit for B salutes?

-Mike
From: billn@hpcvaac.cv.hp.com (bill nelson)
Newsgroups: rec.pyrotechnics
Subject: Re: plastic explosive (how to?)
Date: 9 Nov 92 19:37:46 GMT
Article-I.D.: hpcvaac.1992Nov9.193746.16595
Organization: Hewlett-Packard Company, Corvallis, Oregon USA

rtaraz@bigwpi.WPI.EDU (Ramin Taraz) writes:
: 
: Hi all, 
: I know this is not a gun question but I assumed at least one of you
: guys can help me out here.
: 
: How do you make plastic explosive (lets say C4) to explode.  I know
: fire doesnt do it because you can just put a match to it and it will
: start burning.  How does the fuse work?

The fuse does not initiate the C4. The fuse ignites a primary explosive 
(in the blasting cap) which undergoes the deflagration to detonation
transition. This primary explosive may initiate the C4 directly or, more
likely, initiate a booster explosive which is also contained in the cap.

It is the blasting cap that initiates the C4.

Bill
Newsgroups: rec.pyrotechnics
From: pkrause@triton.unm.edu (Paul Krause CIRT)
Subject: Re: Help-Thermit
Date: Sat, 14 Nov 92 03:47:51 GMT
Organization: University of New Mexico, Albuquerque NM


Paul's son...
What I have always used for thermite ignition is BaO2 + Mg...
Even though it is recommended in the field expedient books, it does work
well (I suppose especially if you can get the chemicals).  I have no
idea how difficult it is to get the BaO2.  Thermite with Mg powder is
more expensive that with Al, but it is also rather lively.  Of course
quantitatively it doesn't look or seem to different either, so Al is
fine with me.  We just tried the Mg for the fun of it.

On another topic, I was wondering, for igniting the ANFO (from a
great distance of course), how about a little cheap remote control
device to drop a bunch of glycerine in nitric and/or sulfuric acids in
a container on top of the ANFO (or maybe vice versa).  Admittedly this
is rather unpredictable, but it seems as if it might work, especially
if the device used for the drop was located in the ANFO.  The NG formed
_should_ blow up decently, although I don't know if it would deliver
a good enough shock wave to the ANFO to actually get it to detonate.  
This would also scare me a bit if it appeared  to be a dud when used...

Just some thoughts...
Erik
Organization: Central Michigan University
Date: Tuesday, 10 Nov 1992 18:16:57 EST
From: Richard C. Dougherty <344DFYH@CMUVM.CSV.CMICH.EDU>
Newsgroups: rec.pyrotechnics
Subject: Re: BIC lighter explosion
 <1992Nov10.141658.1410@ncsu.edu>

I heard of accidents where weleders have a butane lighter in their
pocket...and had a hot piece of metal "shoot" into the lighter
making it explode and injuring them badly....
                                             Chip..
Newsgroups: rec.pyrotechnics
From: billn@hpcvaac.cv.hp.com (bill nelson)
Subject: Re: Help-Thermit
Organization: Hewlett-Packard Company, Corvallis, Oregon USA
Date: Thu, 12 Nov 1992 19:54:32 GMT

miolnir@stein.u.washington.edu (Scot Thorstad) writes:
:   I made some thermit using 50% black iron oxide and 50% aluminum powder 
: by vol.  The Al was one grade larger than german black.  When I tried to
: light it using Mg ribbin it wouldn't go.  What could have caused this?
: It was drizzling lightly, could the the thermit have absorbed enough H2O
: to kill it?  I was under some trees so there was no direct contact.  I'm 
: confused.

It is not unusual to have difficulty lighting thermine using a magnesium
ribbon. The ribbon tends to extinguish at the point it enters the thermite.
You could attempt to mound a little of the thermite up around the ribbon.

Other igniters which produce a more sustained heat work better. I used to
use KClO3 and H2SO4. It requires caution in use - you do not want any of
the acid to get into the thermite.

You could try the igniter from a highway safety flare - it may easily
produce enough heat.

Take care when using thermite. If there is moisture present, you can easily
get a steam explosion, which can scatter burning aluminum for quite some
distance. 

Bill
Newsgroups: rec.pyrotechnics
From: ahahma@sara.cc.utu.fi
Subject: Re: Ammonium Nitrate
Organization: University of Turku, Finland
Date: Sun, 8 Nov 1992 11:00:15 GMT

In article <1992Nov6.170432.11498@hpcvaac.cv.hp.com>, billn@hpcvaac.cv.hp.com (bill nelson) writes:

> I have also partially detonated ANFO using just a blasting cap. Were you
> able to get fairly complete detonation, or did they damp out over a distance
> of a couple of feet - or less.

The detonation has been complete every time with charges varying from
1 to 10 kg. The results are easily verified from the surroundings
after the detonation. I have even tried explosive welding with
fertilizer ANFO (80 % AN, the rest various carbonates), with a
blasting cap only to set it off.

> I have never worked with anything under about 7 cm.  I was unaware that
> you could work with such small critical diameters, without having some
> more sensitive HE as part of the composition.

There are many compounds, that affect the structure of a salt
solution. If selected properly, they can be very effective
sensitizers, even more effective than high explosives.

> Bill

ArNO
    2
From: beck@irzr17.inf.tu-dresden.de (Andre Beck)
Newsgroups: rec.pyrotechnics
Subject: Re: Glycerin
Date: 5 Nov 92 17:00:58 GMT
Reply-To: beck@freia.inf.tu-dresden.de
Organization: Dept. of Computer Science, TU Dresden, Germany.


In article <1992Nov3.212437.3022@organpipe.uug.arizona.edu>,
tip@lead.aichem.arizona.edu (Tom Perigrin) writes:
>
>>set it off.  (A drop of NG on a steel plate does not explode when hit
>with
>>a hammer).  This is assuming that you properly neutralize your NG
>after
>
>Tenny L Davis (Chemistry of Powder and Explosives, p 209) reports
>that a 2 Kg steel weight dropping 10 -12 cm will reliabily set off
>nitroglycerin.   Mercury fulminate 4.5 cm, lead azide 9 cm, blasting 
>gelatine 12-15 cm, tetryl 30-35 cm.  The sensitivity goes up
>drastically
>on warming.  Frozen NG requires a drop of about 30 cm.
>

To set off small quantities of NG safely, simply soake some filter paper
with it, and hit it with the hammer... this method was shown in the
"Explosives Class", which our university held some time ago.

A completely other question: Does anyone know the exact mixture proportions
to produce "Glaubers Knallsalz" (huuh.. how to translate... may be
"Glaubers bangsalt" ??). This is a simple mix of Potassium nitrate,
Potassium Carbonate and Sulfur. It burns nasty, without great effect
when lighted. The joke is, if you heat it VERY slowly, so if melts
and then you continue GENTLY heating it, it will suddenly detonate with
great BANG. I've seen this also at this class, they used a small magnesia
thingy to put it in, then put it on a trifoot with a wirenet, and heatet
it... the trifoot was thrown to earth and they never saw the wirenet
or magnesia thing again...

--
,------------------------+---------------------------------------------.
| Andre' Beck            |   TCP/IP-Mail: beck@freia.inf.tu-dresden.de |
| HG R 141b              |   VMS        : hermes::beck                 |
+------------------------+---------------------------------------------+
|   Computo ergo sum. Special greetings to BIM, BAM, BOM and HIRN.     |
`----------------------------------------------------------------------'
Newsgroups: rec.pyrotechnics
From: ahahma@polaris.utu.fi (Arno Hahma)
Subject: Re: Story! (was Re: Some misconceptions about "Nitrogen Iodide"
Organization: University of Turku
X-Newsreader: Tin 1.1 PL5
Date: Wed, 11 Nov 92 20:20:45 GMT

Andre Beck (beck@irzr17.inf.tu-dresden.de) wrote:

: Btw, is there a chance to nitrate Sorbit (a hexa alcohol, cheaply avail-
: able as a replacement sugar for diabetics) into a kind of hexanitrate ?

Yes, it is possible and has been done. However, sorbitolhexanitrate is
not easy to make. To nitrate sorbitol to the hexanitrate one requires
very concentrated nitric acid, that has to be absolutely free of
nitrites. Still, the product tends to be impure, i.e. contain much of
the pentanitrate. If so, the product will be a wet mass of crystals,
as the mixture of hexa- and pentanitrates melts relatively low. That
makes the purification particularly difficult. Also, the pentanitrate
is not as stable as the hexanitrate. That is one reason, why
sorbitolhexanitrate is not very stable, but easily starts giving off
red fumes on storage. The compound is also very sensitive to shock and
friction, about as sensitive as nitroglycerine.

A better choice is to nitrate mannitol, an isomer of sorbitol.
Mannitolhexanitrate is much easier to make, it crystallises nicely and
is easily purified by recrystallization from acetone. MHN is much more
stable than sorbitol hexanitrate, but it still requires a
stabilisator, such as akardites or centralites for prolonged, safe
storage.

MHN is very sensitive as well, although not as much as the sorbitol
derivative.  MHN has been used as the base charge for blasting caps,
as it is very easy to ignite even with such a weak initiator as
tetracene. I would still prefer using PETN for caps, though.

: stated above, this may be (if somewhat stable) an incredible bristant
: explosive... Its an idea from my school time, but i never tried

You are right, sorbitol and mannitol hexanitrates are extremely
powerful explosives, more powerful than PETN or RDX. I can't remember
the detonation velocity exactly, but it is in the order of 8500 m/s.
The heat of explosion is more than that of the two explosives
mentioned above.

: I dark remember to have read something like this in one of the
: "Kitchen manufacturing of ..." books but i dunno exactly.

MHN and SHN are not something you want to do in your kitchen. Both of
the explosives are close to the primary explosives in their
properties. In addition, you need really concentrated acids in large
excess to gain any yield and such acids might do some severe damage to
average kitchen furniture. Nitration with 99,5+% nitric acid evolves
incredible amounts of nitric acid fumes.

: | Andre' Beck            |   TCP/IP-Mail: beck@freia.inf.tu-dresden.de |

ArNO
    2
From: lvogt@digi.lonestar.org (Lee Vogt)
Newsgroups: rec.pyrotechnics
Subject: Re: Ammonium Nitrate
Date: 10 Nov 92 15:29:26 GMT
Organization: DSC Communications Corp, Plano, TX

>
>As a note of interest. The BATF? has recently reclassed flash as a Class
>A explosive. That means commercial handling just like with dynamite and
>blasting caps.
>

BATF?  ??  I'm not familiar with this acronym - would that be the Bureau
of Alchohol, Tobacco and Firearms ??  And why the '?' in the original posting ?

Enquiring minds want to know....


****************************************************************************
* MY opinions, dammit !!!                      Lee Vogt                    *
*   Keep your grubby paws off !                DSC Communications Corp.    *
****************************************************************************  
-- 
****************************************************************************
* MY opinions, dammit !!!                      Lee Vogt                    *
*   Keep your grubby paws off !                DSC Communications Corp.    *
****************************************************************************  
Newsgroups: rec.pyrotechnics
From: fernee@newton.physics.uq.oz.au (Mark Fernee)
Subject: Re: Ammonium Nitrate
Organization: Physics Dept. The University of Queensland
Date: Wed, 11 Nov 1992 03:27:12 GMT

In article <wezZdvO00WAtQ1OV0g@andrew.cmu.edu>, Mark Denovich <md3z+@andrew.cmu.edu> writes:
|> I have been following this thread all along, and now am a bit confused....
|> 
|> It was originally stated that there was no chance to have ANFO blast
|> without a significant booster.  It now seems that according to Bill and
|> Arno that it can be detonated with a Blasting cap...  
|> 
|> Confusion #2  It has been stated that AN is very hydoscopic, yet i have
|> seen mention of a water slurry...  
|> 
|> 
|> Will a large (1/4 to 1/2 pound) amount of black powder detonate a few
|> kilograms of ANFO (94%AN 6%FO)?
|> 
|> If so...  on what conditions...
|> 	
|> 	In a hole?
|> 	In a 4'dia piece of PVC?
|> 	In a steel pipe?
|> 	In bedrock?
|> 	In my dreams??????
|> 
|> If not what can I do to make this work?
|> 

What we have ascertained is that fertilizer grade AN can be used in
various explosive mixtures and can subsequently detonated. To use the
FGAN in ANFO, requires some 1-2 days soaking time to be effective.
Conversely, if explosives grade AN is used, the AN and fuel oil/diesel
can be readily mixed on site and immediately detonated with optimum 
performance. This has been repeatedly demonstrated.

As for water slurries, there are a number of possibilities. One of
which I am familiar is 40:40:20 AN:Al:H2O. 

Blasting cap sensitivity really depends on how efficiently the shock
and energy are transferred to the explosive. In prilled form ANFO
has been known to be explosively dispersed by the cap/booster if
unconfined (ie a pile poured on the ground). If prilled ANFO were
reliably cap sensitive, then a booster charge would not be recommended.
However, commercially, ANFO is always blasted using a booster.

The AN based explosives are all shock sensitive. A blasting cap generally
contains a very high power/high brisant explosive like RDX or PETN. These
have detonation velocities between 7000-8000 m/s. If you use a beta-HMX
based detonator, then you are looking at nearly 9000 m/s detonation velocity.
Detonators such as these, transfer a considerable shock to the bulk charge
if they are efficiently coupled. It is this highly energetic shock which
causes the bulk charge to detonate. Now black powder, even if well confined,
will have an equivalent shock of no more than 1000 m/s. The energy per unit
mass of burning BP is a least an order of magnitude smaller than that of HE.

I would be surprised if a confined BP charge could be made to work, even
given good confinement of the bulk charge. Even a if a large amount of heat
is produced, the thermal conductivity of AN would not enable an uniform
thermal distribution within the ANFO, so a heat based detonation is unlikely.

I have heard of flash powders being used to initiate sensitive HEs, but I
have no experience with this.

BTW, a few kilograms of ANFO produces a very large explosion.

Mark.
From: billn@hpcvaac.cv.hp.com (bill nelson)
Newsgroups: rec.pyrotechnics
Subject: Re: questions
Date: 10 Nov 92 18:02:24 GMT
Article-I.D.: hpcvaac.1992Nov10.180224.14546
Organization: Hewlett-Packard Company, Corvallis, Oregon USA

DEY101@psuvm.psu.edu () writes:
: 
: I recal some one once told me that a volume equivalent to an inflated
: football (they weren't too imagiative), that if exploded (no details on
: method, but I've got my own ideas that may/may not work), could produce
: enough force to shatter windows aprox. 1/4 km away.
: 
: Is this anywhere near realistic?

Nope. Not unless it was under rather high pressure, and already mixed
with the proper proportion of oxygen, in the football. Even then, it
might be difficult to get enough compressed gas to do so.
: 
: Also, can acetelyne be ignited by an electic (magneto induced) spark?

Yes, easily. It can also be ignited by static electricity. That is one
of the things that makes balloons filled with acetylene/oxygen hazardous.

Bill
Newsgroups: rec.pyrotechnics
From: umwieb80@ccu.umanitoba.ca (Alexander David Wiebe)
Subject: Small Fireworks display
Organization: University of Manitoba, Winnipeg, Manitoba, Canada
Date: Fri, 13 Nov 1992 21:18:08 GMT

hello

this is my first article I have ever posted, so wish me luck

anyways, up here in Canada around Christmas time (when us university students
actually get a break from studies) we have LOTS of snow.  Therefore I feel that
this is as good a time as any to practice constructing and 'detonating' (correct
term ?) pyrotechnical displays (like nifty coloured flames, sparks, etc).

I was wondering if I could get a few SIMPLE suggestions for some of the basics,
(I'd like to start small before I completely blow myself into eternity).

Note: I am sort of working on eventually creating a relatively large device which
would spray large coloured flames, and shower LOTS of coloured sparks, it when end
with large form of a roman candle (ie: launch a tennis ball full of flaming chemicals)

I already have a fairly strong cardboard tube (1/4 inch thick) mounted on flat
base, and a tennis ball.  As for chemicals, I am looking for gunpowder, saltpeter
(KNO3 ?), and various colouring agents.  I have iron fillings coming out of my
backside and about 1/2 cup of boric acid (dry form - good for green flames/sparks ?).

As for safety, this will be detonated in a LARGE field (numerous acres), with a
LONG wick and LOTS of snow around.

any suggestions or last words can be sent to me at:

umwieb80@ccu.umanitoba.ca

thanks
From: bwm@dcs.ed.ac.uk (Bruce Miller)
Newsgroups: rec.pyrotechnics
Subject: Re: non-toxic smoke
Date: 9 Nov 92 17:24:47 GMT
Organization: Department of Computer Science, University of Edinburgh


 Something I forgot to mention on my previous post about oil smoke.

 Oil smoke is not petroleum based, I don't think, as the name might inply.

the liquid is turned into a vapour by a heater. Not steam but like the visible 
"steam" from a kettle but not as hot. The machines have two disadvantages that
may apply for some people:- 

  as with many things some machines are better than others.A number though drip
 a little at the vapour exit hole . This is normally not a problem but I have seen
 machines suspended above people (on lighting rigs). This can mean hot drips of "oil"
 are raining on the crowd, not a good idea. A simple fix is to attach a "U" bend of
 flexible aluminimum hose (used in car air-heaters) to the exit.

  The last thing is, some most people don't realise the first they use fog machines
 is that the fog has to go somewhere. The fog turns back to liquid and attaches to
 to a convenient surface, usually the floor. Imagine a few bottles of oily liquid 
 spread about the floor and walls of the theater or venue. So if the area is quite
 small with little ventilation don't use too much.

  The first time I used it was for a school rock concert lasting a number of hours,
 at the end all the power plugs,sockets and cables had a glistening coating which
 looked like water. A number of teachers cr**ped their load when they saw it!!

                the truth , the whole truth and nothing but the truth,
                                  I.M.H.O.

                          no offence intended,
                                      Bruce...
Newsgroups: rec.pyrotechnics
From: dunkelza@titan.ucc.umass.edu (KEITH C MCCORMIC)
Subject: Re: Explosive/Pyrotechnic Bookshelf
Organization: University of Massachusetts, Amherst
Date: Fri, 6 Nov 1992 02:02:46 GMT

In article <Bx9sJv.FDs@usenet.ucs.indiana.edu> wwarf@silver.ucs.indiana.edu (Wayne J. Warf) writes:
>
>
>I'm trying to build a library of references on pyrotechnics and explosives, 
>their manufacture and use. I'm looking for suggestions as to what to include.
>These should be books that are relatively layman directed <i.e., not
>directed toward mass manufacture>. I would prefer to, obviously, exclude
>books that are either fraudulent or patently unsafe in their directions/
>methods.
>
>Thanks for the input.
>
>-- 
> +--------------------------------------------------------------------+
> | Wayne J. Warf -- WWARF@ucs.indiana.edu -- I speak for myself only  |
> | Midterm Countdown-Bill and the Congress have to '94 to screw it up |
> +--------------------------------------------------------------------+

   U.S. Army Training Manual ??-???  Improvised Munitions Handbook.  I can't
remeber the number of the book.  Has lots of neat field grade thingies, plus
zip-guns, etc.

Dunkelzahn

Newsgroups: rec.pyrotechnics
From: moroney@ramblr.enet.dec.com
Subject: Re: A Modest Proposal
Organization: Digital Equipment Corporation
Distribution: usa
Date: Wed, 11 Nov 1992 03:27:14 GMT

In article <83314@ut-emx.uucp>, tzeking@ccwf.cc.utexas.edu (chan tze-king) writes...
[deleted; I'm not repeating that]

You may want to know that employees of various Federal agencies certainly read
this group.  Many do not have a sense of humor whatsoever.  Perhaps you already
know this...

-Mike
Newsgroups: rec.pyrotechnics
From: rtaraz@bigwpi.WPI.EDU (Ramin Taraz)
Newsgroups: rec.pyrotechnics
Subject: Re: exploding sodium
Date: 9 Nov 92 18:49:33 GMT
Organization: Worcester Polytechnic Institute, Worcester, MA 01609-2280
NNTP-Posting-Host: bigwpi.wpi.edu
In-reply-to: tsa@cellar.org's message of 8 Nov 92 02:49:33 GMT

>>>>> On 8 Nov 92 02:49:33 GMT, tsa@cellar.org (The Silent Assassin) said:

tsa> er29+@andrew.cmu.edu (Eric M. Rehder) writes:

> Does anyone know a good way to create sodium?
> 
> I saw a video once where some salt was heated up to the point of
> turning the salt into a liquid.  Into this liquid two electrodes
> were placed.  The Na+ would accumulate at the Negative and the Cl-
> would accumulate at the positive.  The video made it a point that
> the heating must be done very slowly.  This is so any water that has
> been absorbed by the salt can evaporate before any Na+ is produced.
> 
> I once tried this method, but I was unable to reach the melting point. 
> What is the melting point of sodium?
> 
> I am what happens at the Positive electrod with the Chlorine?
> Does the Cl-(l)  form Cl2(g).  Correct me if I'm wrong but isn't Cl2 poisonou
> 
> Eric Rehder

tsa> I believe the melting point of NaCl is around 3000 degrees.  It
                                                   ^^^-800 C
Organization: Doctoral student, Urban and Public Affairs, Carnegie Mellon, Pittsburgh, PA
Newsgroups: rec.pyrotechnics
Date: Wed, 11 Nov 1992 11:35:02 -0500 
From: Lawrence Curcio <lc2b+@andrew.cmu.edu>
Subject: Re: non-toxic smoke

If memory serves, when glycerine decomposes, it throws off an H2O
leaving behind a double bond. The resultant compound is related to
acrylic acid. My old organic chem book said that then name, acrylic,
comes from the work, acrid: the pungent oder that evolves from burned
fats. The odor is supposedly caused by the glycerine. 

It's been 1 score and five years, though.

-Larry (alas, _NOT_ Larry Lippman)
Newsgroups: rec.pyrotechnics
Subject: Re: A Modest Proposal
From: David B. Horvath, CDP <MBADBH@rohvm1.rohmhaas.com>
Date: Tue, 10 Nov 1992 15:30:50 EST
Distribution: usa
Organization: Hidden - I don't speak for them...

I'm not even going to include the original text...  Saying things like that
can get you visits from the nice men and women of the Secret Service.  It
is illegal to joke about b*mbs at an airport and its also illegal to
threaten the Pr*sid*nt in any way...

(I watched the Secret Service Movie the other night while catching up on
 my technical reading).

   - Davod
Newsgroups: rec.pyrotechnics