HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: Justin Norfleet <jpn1@cornell.edu>
Subject: Re: Rappeling in Rochester ?
X-Xxdate: Wed, 9 Sep 92 17: 55:49 GMT
Nntp-Posting-User: jpn1@cornell.edu
Organization: Cornell University
X-Useragent: Nuntius v1.1.1d7
Date: Wed, 9 Sep 1992 21:50:52 GMT

Subject: Rappeling in Rochester ?
From: Matt Ross, mrss_ltd@uhura.cc.rochester.edu
Date: 9 Sep 92 14:52:50 GMT
In article <1992Sep9.145250.17963@galileo.cc.rochester.edu> Matt Ross,
mrss_ltd@uhura.cc.rochester.edu writes:
>Does anyone know of a good place to learn rappelling in the Rochester, NY
>area ?  Or suggestions for a good ropes course or survival course. 
>I am trying to do some programming for a group of 30 of ages 18-20.
>Any help would be greatly appreciated.
>Please include price estimates if known.
>Thanks.
>Matt
>-- 
>Matt Ross
>mrss_ltd@uhura.cc.rochester.edu
>What ever you do, take care of your shoes.

Matt, 
You might want to contact Eastern Mountain Sports. They do programs like
this I think.  I know that they do wilderness courses and such.  If there
isn't one in the Rochester area, I know that there are a fw in Syracuse. 
 And if you are at UofR, you might be able to do something with ROTC. 
Here at Cornell, ROTC did rappelling off the back of the stadium for
members of the campus community.

Justin "still working on my .sig" Norfleet
j_norfleet@cornell.edu
Newsgroups: rec.climbing
From: billw@ace.mentorg.com (Bill Wright)
Subject: Re: Aiding Free Routes
Originator: billw@ace
Date: Fri, 11 Sep 1992 18:20:30 GMT
Reply-To: billw@sjc.mentorg.com
Organization: Mentor Graphics 
Keywords: 
Followup-To: 


In article <92255.090848HYD@psuvm.psu.edu>, <HYD@psuvm.psu.edu> writes:
|>  Over the weekend someone aided a classic free route called "Colman's a
|>  Faggott" in the Bellefont Quarry, PA. The offending climber used pitons to
|>  climb this obliviously clean finger crack. Since Colman is a major classic 
I am sure you mean this, but let me just make it clear.  There is NO problem
with aiding a free climb.  NONE.  The problem is that the guy hammered pins
into a CLEAN climb.  Actually, the subject of aid and free is irrelevant.
The real issue here is clean vs. hammered.  It is very bad style to hammer
your way up a previously clean (meaning hammerless) climb.  Of course, on
big walls this is unfortunately done more frequently, but probably has more
justification (i.e. only one very good team has climbed the route clean and
not most people climb the route free.)

-- 
             Bill Wright / bill_wright@mentorg.com

                  "When in doubt, run it out!"
From: trzyna@CS.ColoState.EDU (wayne trzyna)
Newsgroups: rec.climbing
Subject: Re: Grease
Date: 7 Sep 92 16:35:41 GMT
Organization: Colorado State University, Computer Science Department

In article <21459@optima.cs.arizona.edu> sarah@cs.arizona.edu (Sarah M. Officer) writes:
>Some German friends of mine told me about a route in the northern
>alps (southern Bavaria) where climbing with chalk is mandatory.  I
>forget the name of this popular route, but I believe it is on 
>limestone.  There is a traverse around a corner with a handrail
>where generations of sweaty palms have reacted with the limestone
>to polish it smooth.  I'm fuzzy with my chemistry, but I believe 
>that chalk is basic and palm sweat is acidic, and climbers have 
>been asked to use chalk to neutralize their palm sweat and reduce
>further impact to this route!

Yes, I don't see chalk as a problem, and it may be an asset.  Recall
that its use grew from precedents in gymnastics, where it is used to
protect the equipment among other things.  I think John Gill (gymnast
and boulderer extrordiaire) was the first climber to use chalk.

-- 

-Wayne Trzyna
 trzyna@CS.ColoState.EDU
Newsgroups: rec.climbing,rec.skiing
From: loa@ibc2.irkutsk.su (Lebedeva Olga Alexandrovna)
Subject: Travel around Baikal
Reply-To: loa@ibc2.irkutsk.su
Organization: Irkutsk Bysness Centre
Date: Mon, 14 Sep 92 12:05:52 +0400

Tourist company "Baikalcomplex" offer different types of TRAVEL
at the region of the world-famouse LAKE BAIKAL and SIBIRIA:
walks, treks and adventures (foot,canoe,rifting, lease of ships,
fishing, skin dising, mountain bycycles,cross country ski, motor
sledge and etc.)
    Also CLIMBING of the all regions of the USSR, include SUMMITS
higher 7000m above level sea.
    Big discount for groups, consisting of only students and
youngmen.
    Will be glad contact with tourist companes.

        Apply for details:
1. 664029 Russia Irkutsk-29
   P.O.Box 3598 "Baikalcomplex"
2. Telex: 231522 BTB SU Att. "Baikalcomplex"
3. Fax: 095/4202106 Att. "Baikalcomplex"
4. Phone: 3952/462437
5. E-mail: loa@ibc2.irkutsk.su













Newsgroups: rec.climbing
From: timtow@timtow.b1.ingr.com (Tim Tow)
Subject: Re: Ego's and Chalk, a walk down posting lane
Reply-To: timtow@timtow.b1.ingr.com
Organization: Intergraph Corp, Huntsville, Alabama
Date: Thu, 10 Sep 1992 01:59:16 GMT

In article <1992Sep10.004917.8923@news.mentorg.com>, billw@ace.mentorg.com (Bill Wright) writes:
|> 
|> Ah, a public flame war amongst past partners.  How invigorating!  I

Lots of stuff deleted!

|> |> 	Who are the big Ego climbers that use chalk. Bill has told
|> |> us that he does not climb with people better than him most of the time.
|> |> How would he know that climbers who use chalk have big ego's? 
|> Once again, I NEVER stated this and don't believe it.  Obviously Brodesky
|> just wants to fight and not have a reasonable discussion.  He knows where
|> I live.  Come and get me.

to go climbing?  To borrow from the wise man Indiana Jones (referring to asps)
"Crags... very dangerous...  You go first!"    "On belay!"


|>              Bill Wright / bill_wright@mentorg.com
|> 
|>                   "When in doubt, run it out!"

"In the headlines today..  two climbers were severely injured today 
 when the lead climber, in a moment of doubt, he ran out of cliff 
 before he ran out of rope...  His fall was cushioned considerably 
 when he landed squarely on his climbing partner...."

Sorry.. I couldn't resist   :-)

-- 
 ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
 Tim Tow                              |                                      
 Intergraph Corporation               | "Injustice anywhere is a             
 Huntsville, AL                       |      threat to justice everywhere"    
 Mailpath:..timtow@timtow.b1.ingr.com |                                      
 Voice:                  205-730-2117 |         - Dr Martin Luther King, Jr
 ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: sinclair@cc.usu.edu (Bob Sinclair)
Newsgroups: rec.climbing
Subject: chalk does make things safe :-)
Date: 9 Sep 92 19:27:50 MDT
Organization: Utah State University

Well, Ive got to completely disagree with some of the comments about chalk
not making things safer. Its certainly saved my life on more than one
occasion. Let's face it, there you are driving to the crags, jabbering 
excitedly about routes that are on the days hit list, or the gems that
were ticked on the last visit. All of a sudden, sweaty hands. Not just
the minor perspiration you get when on an actual route mind you, I mean
they really go for it. You're suddenly so slick that turning the wheel
is impossible, and you're still doing a safe and sane 80 on a dirt road
that sports loose gravel and tight bends in a typical climber-mobile that
doesn't have power steering. Reach for the magic dust.

CHALK. Get to the crags alive.

(It's been one of those days I'm afraid - Bob)
Newsgroups: rec.climbing
From: jmorton@euler.Berkeley.EDU (John Morton)
Subject: Calif. Needles Guidebook?
Reply-To: jmorton@euler.Berkeley.EDU (John Morton)
Organization: University of California, Berkeley
Distribution: na
Date: Mon, 14 Sep 1992 16:00:32 GMT

Has anyone seen the guide to the Needles (California) which is
supposed to appear about now?  I think Sally Moser is doing this one.
Where can I get it?

Does anyone wish to divulge useful information on favorite routes,
campsites etc.?  My sole source of info is Rock & Ice #22.


John Morton					University of California
jmorton@euler.berkeley.edu			Mechanical Engineering
{decvax,cbosgd}!ucbvax!euler!jmorton		Machine Shop
Newsgroups: rec.climbing
From: sam2747@shuksan.boeing.com (Scott Moody)
Newsgroups: rec.climbing
Subject: another fatality: Mountain Mag
Keywords: adds
Date: 11 Sep 92 15:29:55 GMT
Organization: The Boeing Co., MMST, Seattle, Wa.

Well another fatality during this strange year
is Mountain Magazine. They have sorta merged with High Mountain Sports Mag.

Mountain says:
	"After 23 years of independent existence, economic tough times
	have squeezed Mountain into a non-viable financial position.
	..
	After careful consideration and much heart-searching it was considered
	to everyone's advantage to sell the title to High Mountain Sports Mag.
	This would allow the merger of part of the editorial content, 
	keeping in particular the prestigious 'Mountain Info' papes
	which are so popular.
			--Paul Nunn "
		

We now we get another magazine with too many adds :-(
-- 
Scott Moody   (206) 477-4295   "There are no answers .. just cross references"
     scott@shuksan.boeing.com  
     uunet!bcstec!shuksan!scott
From: sinclair@cc.usu.edu (Bob Sinclair)
Newsgroups: rec.climbing
Subject: last post: re spider mits, ignore this
Date: 10 Sep 92 10:10:49 MDT
Organization: Utah State University

I hate it when that happens, the machine slows, you miss a prompt and
bam, no subject line!
Sorry!
Newsgroups: rec.climbing
Newsgroups: rec.climbing

> 
> > Other eldo grease ratings:
> > 
> 
> What about the footholds on C'est La Vie?  G3?
> 
> 

I wasn't aware there *were* any footholds on C'est La Vie!    There's
a small lard nodule to the right...

John
From: mangin@debussy.inria.fr (Frank Mangin)
Newsgroups: rec.climbing
Subject: Re: emergency techniques
Date: 7 Sep 92 08:47:29 GMT
Organization: INRIA, Sophia-Antipolis (Fr)

-- 
In article <l9tbrkINNl4n@exodus.Eng.Sun.COM>, bhilden@bigriver.Eng.Sun.COM (Bruce Hildenbrand) writes:

|> 
|> This is simply not true.  There are cases, especially when you have
|> questionable anchors(this happens sometimes!), when being able to
|> absorb some of the fall with a body belay can actually be safer.

  Ok, I should have been more accurate: using a belay device doesn't mean 
being attached to anchors. I fully agree that using your body as an anchor is
sometimes faster and safer, and I often do it, however I still use a belay
device attached to my harness...

|> 
|> I am amazed at all this negative publicity.  I might remind the
|> readers of the net that nearly all great alpine and rock faces
|> (yeah, like the Eiger, Walker Spur, Cime Ovest, El Capitan,
|> etc., etc.) were first climbed using body belays.
|> 

  Just one more example of silly argument... 

|> Bruce

	Frank Mangin                
	Inria                            Phone #93 65 78 66
	2004 route des Lucioles          Email: mangin@mirsa.inria.fr
	06560 Valbonne Cedex
	France
From: schuck@dciem.dciem.dnd.ca (Mary Margaret Schuck)
Newsgroups: rec.climbing
Subject: What about X-Factor?
Date: 15 Sep 92 13:09:40 GMT
Organization: Defence and Civil Institute of Environmental Medicine

In all this hullaballoo about chalk, no one has mentioned that there
are alternatives.

I've been using x-factor for over 6 months now and I find it a vastly
superior alternative to chalk.  If the literature is to be believed,
it's an environmentally friendlier solution than chalk, and it's also
clear and colourless.  Most important, it doesn't give my hands that
slightly smooth feel that chalk does, instead it does for my hands
what sticky rubber does for my shoes--it feels like it's helping me
stick.

(It doesn't seem to work as well on plastic as on real rock, but
that's a small drawback.)

So anyhow, why is this alternative being ignored?  Have people tried
it and don't like it?  Is it not generally available out there?  It
can't be the cost; I'd have gone through 3 or 4 blocks of chalk in the
time I've been using one pouch of x-factor (which only cost me $3.50
Cdn at the time).  Is it a cultural thing, that people are used to chalk
and just feel happier with it?

My personal guess would be that no one wants to be seen using
something with a geeky name like x-factor, but you could always just
hide it in an old chalk-bag...

	Mary Margaret.

-- 
______________________________________________________________________________
        	  My mailer hates everyone.  Be sneaky.
schuck@ben.dciem.dnd.ca     		{decvax,attcan}!utzoo!dciem!ben!schuck
schuck@dretor.dciem.dnd.ca  	 	{decvax,attcan}!utzoo!dciem!schuck
Organization: Penn State University
Date: Fri, 11 Sep 1992 09:08:48 EDT
From: <HYD@psuvm.psu.edu>
Newsgroups: rec.climbing
Subject: Aiding Free Routes

 Over the weekend someone aided a classic free route called "Colman's a
 Faggott" in the Bellefont Quarry, PA. The offending climber used pitons to
 climb this obliviously clean finger crack. Since Colman is a major classic for
 the area and has been led clean many times, the person who did this is way out
 of line. Due to the relatively soft nature of limestone, the Bellefont cracks
 will not withstand much aiding with pitons. The local climbers who I've talked
 to are very angry about this. If anyone knows who did this please tell them to
 talk to locals before hammering their way up a route. This, by the way, is
 the only acceptable behavior when traveling to any climbing area. Just imagine
 how you'd feel if someone bashed their way up your favorite finger crack.

                                           Paul
From: kg@hpsad.sad.hp.com (Ken Gurley)
Date: Tue, 8 Sep 1992 15:04:51 GMT
Subject: Re: suggestions for climbing in the San Jose area
Organization: HP Signal Analysis Division - Rohnert Park, CA
Newsgroups: rec.climbing

Information on bay area climbing locations can be found in the guide
book :    Bay Area Rock
          Author - Jim Thornburg
A copy can be purchased at the local REI store.
From: apurmal@us.oracle.com
Newsgroups: rec.climbing
Subject: Climbing gym in the Fort Worth/Dallas area?
Date: 10 Sep 92 23:14:24 GMT
Organization: Oracle Corporation, USA
X-Disclaimer: This message was written by an unauthenticated user
              at Oracle Corporation.  The opinions expressed are those
              of the user and not necessarily those of Oracle.


     I'll be on a buisness trip to Fort Worth TX week after next and
I'm wondering if any of you know of a climbing gym in the area.

Thanks

Tony Purmal
apurmal@us.oracle.com
From: hallinan@gramian.harvard.edu (Peter W. Hallinan)
Newsgroups: rec.climbing
Subject: Re: Rope decay
Date: 8 Sep 92 22:16:55 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: Harvard Robotics Lab, Harvard University

In article <1992Sep8.123252.20163@hellgate.utah.edu> allen%asylum.cs.utah.edu@cs.utah.edu (Allen Sanderson) writes:

   Yes, once the rope is exposed to air.  Most ropes regrade
   significantly in the first year of their life and seem to tapper off.
   You did not mention if the rope was new "never out of the bag" or has
   been used (even once).  Even new ropes will degrade unless they are
   keep in an air tight bag.

I know about damage due to UV, heat, abrasion, and chemicals, but not
about damage due to exposure to air. Are you talking about an
oxidization process and if so what is oxidizing? I have to admit my
Blue Water 9's came sealed but the care instructions didn't mention
anything about damage from air.

Very curious,
	Peter
Newsgroups: rec.climbing
From: frankw@rice.edu (Frank Whitby)
Subject: climbing matterhorn and in alps.
Organization: Rice University
Date: Sat, 12 Sep 1992 18:02:48 GMT


in reference to the person asking about the costs and difficulties 
involved in climbing the matterhorn:

1) I havot climbed it.
2) I didI did climb(unguided) ks in the alps.
3) I wasld by friends that the matterhorn was easily climbed
without a guide.  I tend to believe this.

The europeans have a long tradition of guiding and you may or may not
want to partake of the available services.  I found that the standard 
routes in the Bernese Oberland and on Mt. Blanc were well trodden and
there were even handles glued to rocks in areas where the scrambling
was tough.  This sort of stuff is comforting to some and saddens others.

There was a recent article in Climbing magazine about some of the popular
walk-up routes in the alps. 

My experience has been that hundreds of people will be climbing mt.
blanc on a summer day and many fewer will be in the bernese oberland.


Newsgroups: rec.climbing
From: kevo@carina.unm.edu (Kevin Smith)
Subject: Re: beginner
Date: Sat, 05 Sep 92 05:24:37 GMT
Organization: University of New Mexico, Albuquerque
Distribution: usa

	Does anybody know of some mial order places to receive gear.

I would like to know either the addresses or the phone numbers of some

.of the places.  I need to get some more gear.  

Also thanks to everybody who replied on great places to climb in New

Mexico.  I appreciate it much.

kevo
email kevo@carina.unm.edu
From: ai065@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Thomas Hill)
Newsgroups: rec.climbing
Subject: NOTICE:"Bigfoot/Sasquatch" Sightings Request
Date: 14 Sep 1992 03:00:58 GMT
Organization: Case Western Reserve University, Cleveland, Ohio (USA)
NNTP-Posting-Host: slc10.ins.cwru.edu


   Our research group is currently investigating reports and sightings of the
animal known as "Bigfoot" or "Sasquatch". If you or somebody you know has had
such a sighting, or come across what may be evidence supporting the existance
of such an animal, please get in contact with us in one of the following
formats:
 
o Leave a private message in electronic mail.
o Call Thomas Hill at 216-362-6529.
o Or write:
 
  Thomas E. Hill
  16124 Richard Dr.
  Brook Park, OH 44142
 
 Contact with us can be totally anonymous if you wish. We are especially
interested in Ohio sightings but are by no means limited to investigations in
that state. Please, serious responses only.
-- 
"A large creature about 7 1/2 to 8 foot tall. It was greyish black in color,
and as it went away from me I seen the backside of it walking as a man would
walk on it's hind legs."- Former Sheriff Oliver Potter, Vancouver, Washington
The Cryptozoology Information Network. Want on our Email mailing list? Amiga!
From: eazcdr@unicorn.nott.ac.uk (C.Rudd)
Newsgroups: rec.climbing
Subject: Re: Wolfgang Guellich is dead
Date: 10 Sep 92 15:27:46 GMT
Organization: Cripps Computing Centre, University of Nottingham

Yesterday evening, someone in the gym told me that he fell asleep at the wheel

Chris Rudd
From: jjk@astro.umd.edu (Jim Klavetter)
Newsgroups: rec.climbing
Subject: Re: Reasons for using chalk
Keywords: save your butt
Date: 9 Sep 92 17:32:51 GMT
Organization: U. of Maryland @ College Park, Astronomy

In article <20138@drutx.ATT.COM> r.g.olsen@att.com writes:
>Chalk has on more than one occasion saved my butt
>from a potential disasterous fall:
>
[various examples of perceived help by chalk deleted]
So, if it means not falling using "clean" techniques it is ok?  How
about a bolt?  (yeah, right, see below).  How about something more
drastic (glueing a hold, etc).  When does any damage become
"justified."  I'm not totally against chalk (I'm the one who thinks it
is necessary or at least VERY helpful in a non-ego way in the east),
but your attitude is scary (see below).

>As far as the environmental impact of chalk: give me a break.
>The use or non-use of chalk has NO long-term impact on the survival
>of the earth or humankind; same as bolts.  More environmental change is wrought
>by natural forces (rockfall, earthquakes, hurricanes,
>etc.) than by all the world's climbers using chalk.  The impact of
>chalk is purely a visual aesthetic issue, not an environmental one.
>Remember, much of what we are now climbing was under the sea
>millions of years ago, and probably will be again long after we
>are gone.
>
Whoa, Ron...  Where does it end?  Toxic waste in rivers?  Dumping
garbage in Grand Canyon?  Does anything matter with this attitude?

Sorry to interupt climbing with these concerns, but I guess we will
lose access to climbing areas with these attitudes.

jjk@astro.umd.edu also for Athabasca and Reudi
Jim Klavetter
Astronomy
UMD
College Park, MD  20742
From: j_elison@hpfcso.FC.HP.COM (Jeff Elison)
Date: Mon, 14 Sep 1992 21:03:37 GMT
Subject: Chalk substitutes
Organization: Hewlett-Packard, Fort Collins, CO, USA
Newsgroups: rec.climbing




Since we have been discussing chalk does anyone have experience with
alternatives?  I've used X-factor twice.  The first time was on a very
hot day while climbing in direct sun.  It did nothing under those
conditions.  The second time was in a gym that does not allow chalk.
It was warm, but not hot.  I still wasn't impressed.  The gym owner
claimed that it works best if you only squeeze the bag every 15 or
20 minutes.

I've also been told that X-factor feels slick on heavily chalked holds.

Mort

Newsgroups: rec.climbing
From: timsc@hwcae.Honeywell.COM (Tim Schneider)
Subject: Re: Reasons for using chalk
Reply-To: timsc@hwcae.honeywell.com
Organization: Honeywell, Air Transport Division; Phoenix, AZ
Date: Mon, 14 Sep 1992 22:16:56 GMT


Yes I've tried it... It does dry the hands, but seems more like a
rosin bag.  I still had trouble with my hands sweating, and they
seemed to sweat more with x-factor than with chalk.

Guess it depends what you're used to.  If I had never used
chalk then tried x-factor, it would probably be okay.  Maybe it's
purely psychological, seeing the white stuff on your hands makes your
grip better?!

I dont know, but I've tried both and like regular old white gymnastic
chalk over the colored chalks or x-factor. 

Hopefully the new-improved version of X will be better and I'll stop
using white chalk altogether!

--
            tim schneider

    timsc@hwcae.honeywell.com  OR
  uunet!asuvax!hwcae.honeywell.com!timsc
           (602) 436-3078
From: trzyna@CS.ColoState.EDU (wayne trzyna)
Newsgroups: rec.climbing
Subject: Re: How strong do you have to be?
Date: 7 Sep 92 16:22:44 GMT
Organization: Colorado State University, Computer Science Department

In article <0095FF20.B8C8EE20@Msu.oscs.montana.edu> uchpcjv@Msu.oscs.montana.edu writes:
>In article <1992Aug31.223908.7157@access.usask.ca>, choy@skorpio.usask.ca writes:
>>How strong do you have to be to climb a cliff? Do you have to support
>>yourself a lot with your arms?
>
>It depends on a lot of factors; how steep the "cliff" is, whether you're
>climbing cracks, face, slabs, etc.  And unless you're climbing much harder
>than about 5.10b/c -- and arguably even at the hardest grades -- you SHOULD
>be using your feet more than your arms.  

Asking how strong you need to be to start climbing is alot like asking
how resiliant your skeletal structure needs to be when you fall.
A little skill and training goes a long way toward making the questions
irrelevant.

-- 

-Wayne Trzyna
 trzyna@CS.ColoState.EDU
Newsgroups: rec.climbing