HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: rsholmes@rodan.syr.EDU (Rich 'mcmxciibo' Holmes)
Subject: Re: Sandman - Bring on the C's
In-reply-to: Chagnon_A@msm.cdx.mot.com's message of Mon, 25 Jan 1993 13:37:11 GMT
Organization: Syracuse University
Date: Tue, 26 Jan 93 10:43:21 EST

In article <1993Jan25.133711.22757@isunix.cdx.mot.com> Chagnon_A@msm.cdx.mot.com (Andrew Chagnon) writes:

>
>Destruction - Creation or Change (from all over Brief Lives)
>Death       - Conception         (present at every birth?)
>Destiny     - Choice             (not pre-ordained? I get to choose?)
>Dream       - Consciousness (sic?) (all right..I'm stretching)
>Delirium    - Control            (I think I just snapped)
>
>Any help on the remaining Endless?
>
>Any help on the really bad ones above? 

Desire    - Contentment. I was thinking of "Chastity" but Desire is
            more than sexual desire, and chastity does not always
            equate to lack of desire (but that's another story...)

Then again, one can argue for

Despair   - Contentment

so maybe Contentment is too vague.

--
- Rich "mcmxciibo" Holmes
"Grown men, he told himself, in flat contradiction of centuries of
accumulated evidence about the way grown men behave, do not behave
like this." -- Douglas Adams
Newsgroups: rec.arts.comics.misc
From: bards_n@azalea.cs.odu.edu (Nathan Bardsley)
Subject: Re: Sandman Question ...
Organization: Old Dominion University, Norfolk, Va
Date: Sat, 23 Jan 1993 16:51:59 GMT

Yes, it was SANDMAN #17, =A Midsummer Mights Dream= that won the World
Fantasy Award for short fiction in 1991.  And all the reports I've heard from
folks who were there say tha the crowd went crazy when the winners were
announced.  If there was anyone there who was "shocked or horrified that
a =comic book= beat out works of prose" to paraphrase Mr. Ellison, was
doing a good job of not being noticed by the majority of the folks who
were sincerly happy for Mr. Gaiman.











-- 
Nathan Bardsley -- bards_n@cs.odu.edu
Newsgroups: rec.arts.comics.misc
From: cornwall@bach.udel.edu (Ray J Cornwall)
Subject: Re: IMAGE et al.
Organization: University of Delaware
Date: Thu, 28 Jan 1993 22:26:24 GMT

In article <1k7uagINNg7a@darkstar.UCSC.EDU> intruder@cats.ucsc.edu (Isaac N. Truder) writes:
>
>I haven't found the thin white line thing.  But a lot of the problem
>with the lettering, I think, is that there's lots of sloppiness around,
>and extraneous marks.  This is especially evident on page 14, across
>from the worst-inked page in the book.  I think these problems are not
>due to the letterer, but again, due to Keown's inking.  Comic books are
>lettered over the pencils, and then inked. I think Keown is just sloppy
>enough with the inking that he gets little ink splatters and screw-ups
>all over the speech balloons and panel borders the letterer has drawn.
Oh. Okay. So sloppy inking is why we have "to"?
Sorry. The lettering is REALLY bad, much worse than the inking.
Granted, Keown should consider hiring an inker (like Mark Farmer!!!),
but the lettering was amatuerish (way too big, and the expletive bit,
which was already a bad idea by the writer, looks worse when the
letter "bolds" it...).
Ray
U of D


Newsgroups: rec.arts.comics.misc
From: dvandom@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (Dave Van Domelen)
Subject: Re: Anybody likes Youngblood?
Organization: The Ohio State University
Date: Thu, 21 Jan 1993 15:10:13 GMT

I haven't read Youngblood (BTW, for the record, PAD wrote Youngscuz waaaay 
before YB came out, it was a backup in Dreadstar's last issues), but I find it 
interesting that as his art as improved my opinion of it has lessened even 
faster.  Over break I was alphabetizing my comics for the first time (neat 
trick with 3500 of them) and dug out my doubles stack (one reason I dropped 
Marvel subscription...I got a lotta doubles).  In it was New Mutants #89, the 
second Robby issue, from back when I really liked the guy's art.  As I read 
through it, I realized that his stuff was worse when I liked it than it is now!
Geez.  Shows how rapidly a guy's taste can evolve, I guess.
     Dave Van Domelen, "Barry Allen is back, Superman will return in April, can
Disco be far behind?  Please leave your message after the scream.  
AAAAAUUUGGGHHH!!!!" - my answering machine message
Newsgroups: rec.arts.comics.misc
From: gjh2j@faraday.clas.Virginia.EDU (Im a Joker Im a Smoker Im a Midnight Toker)
Subject: Scourge Hit List
Organization: University of Virginia
Date: Sun, 24 Jan 1993 11:25:04 GMT


Would someone please give me a list of the villains the "enigmatic" Scourge
(Marvel) killed, and possibly the issues......

I know at least thirty died in the first run (and 18 at one time)...but a 
friend told me that Scourge started appearing even after his "subsequent"
death, and that he started running into higher profile villains like the 
Shocker....


Jeff Hawkins
"Justice Is Served"
Newsgroups: rec.arts.comics.misc
From: wesselak@suna0.cs.uiuc.edu (Erik Wesselak)
Subject: Re: JLA #72 and a SERIOUS CASE OF DEJA VU!
Organization: University of Illinois at Urbana-Champaign
Date: Fri, 22 Jan 1993 19:37:56 GMT

lawrence@ctron.com (Gary S. St. Lawrence) writes:

>	For those out there who think that DC has finally done
>*something* original with the Justice League, I have four words:

>	MARVEL'S ... SQUADRON ... SUPREME ... MAXI-SERIES

Heck, half of these things sound like they're straight out of Watchmen.

Erik
-- 
| "'Who did YOU sleep with to reach   | "There's been some      __| /  |__    |
| the top of the food chain!?!'"      |  trouble in London"     __|<  /|__    |
|  --Leonard the Roach,               |                           | \/ |      |
| Beautiful Stories for Ugly Children |  Erik: wesselak@sparc0a.cs.uiuc.edu   |
Newsgroups: rec.arts.comics.misc
From: dani@netcom.com (Dani Zweig)
Subject: Re: SANDMAN: Update about upcoming issues.
Organization: Netcom Online Communications Services (408-241-9760 login: guest)
Date: Wed, 27 Jan 1993 20:25:46 GMT

jhildebr@nyx.cs.du.edu (Jeff Hildebrand):
[Murphy=Morpheus]
>The problem wasn't that someone looked it up. The problem was that
>someone posted it without spoiler warnings. Extremely different situation,
>at least to my mind.

I don't see that as warranting a spoiler warning.  Someone else did some
digging and told us what the Japanese characters said/meant.  Did that
merit a spoiler warning?  Someone else, from his own general knowledge,
suggested that 'Murphy' might be a local personification of Murphy's
Law.  Did that speculation merit a spoiler warning?  Would the answer
be different if that speculation had turned out to be correct?

The general rule is that spoiler warnings are for the protection of
those who don't want to be told key plot elements before they see/read
for themselves.  Subsequent speculation and analysis are not covered
by this convention.

I can see why Gaiman might be annoyed at someone giving away the game
prematurely, but given that the information wasn't privileged, I don't
think he has a legitimate gripe.  To take an example from a few years
back, someone on the net figured out Rorschach's identity at the very
start of the Watchmen discussion.  Should he have posted a spoiler
warning saying  "I think I know who it is.  Don't read this until issue
five comes out."?

-----
Dani Zweig
dani@netcom.com

   God helpe the man so wrapt in Errours endless traine  -- Edmund Spenser
Newsgroups: rec.arts.comics.misc
From: vanyel@camelot.bradley.edu (Alan Williams)
Subject: Re: JLA #72 and a SERIOUS CASE OF DEJA VU!
Organization: Bradley University
Distribution: usa
Date: 22 Jan 93 19:39:46 GMT

tpjg9663@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (Tom Johnston) writes:
>lawrence@ctron.com (Gary S. St. Lawrence) writes:
>>	For those out there who think that DC has finally done
>>*something* original with the Justice League, I have four words:
>>	MARVEL'S ... SQUADRON ... SUPREME ... MAXI-SERIES
>>Marvel's been there, done that ... and probably *FAR* better than we're
>>going to see in JLA with that (&*&^$^&%*!!@ Jurgens at the helm!
>Take a look at most super-hero comics and you'll find that you
>can identify plot elements and events which have been done before,
>usually better.

For those of you who believe DC Comics existed before 1980, remember the
"Crisis on Earth-A" story I mentioned earlier.  Given what I think is
happening with Dr. Destiny, that particular story is *also* applicable
here.

>Anyway, in addition to everyone being out of character, look at
>the inclusion of Red Tornado and Firestorm in the group.  Those
>characters, to the best of my knowledge, don't exist in these
>forms anymore.  So chalk the whole issue up as a dream.  Doctor
>Destiny is probably realizing someone's worst nightmare, possibly
>his own.

>It was a lame issue regardless.  I picked it up because I remember
>the old JLofA and I liked the cover.

Oh, yeah, this is lame.  Real lame.  Right.

The only thing lame around here are the constant complaints about lack of
originality on the part of all companies.  You should all know by now that
these plots have *all* been done before in some form or another.

This issue presented an interesting view of the JLofA that's as consistent
as it's ever been WRT their appearances elsewhere.  The biggest problem
team books have *always* faced is that any character who appears elsewhere
runs the risk of being inconsistently portrayed in the team book.


--

 _______________ Alan Williams | vanyel@camelot.bradley.edu _________________
 \/ KIRA: Red alert!  Raise shields!                                       \/
    O'BRIEN: What shields?
                                --"Emissary," _Star Trek: Deep Space Nine_
From: mre@kepler.unh.edu (Monty Python's Life of MikE)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.comics.misc
Subject: Re: DC: coloring
Date: 25 Jan 1993 13:20:50 GMT
Organization: University of New Hampshire  -  Durham, NH
NNTP-Posting-Host: kepler.unh.edu

In article <lm6u6kINNp7h@news.bbn.com> leekil@bbn.com (Lee Kilpatrick) writes:
>
>Recently in some Dc books they have been crediting the coloring to
>"Digital Chameleon" and "Olyoptics".  The digital chameleon, I know,
>is the coloring computer they use.  What is Olyoptics?  And often,
>they don't even mention a person for coloring, ONLY "Digital
>Chameleon" or whatnot.  So do they have some sort of AI coloring
>software (yeah, right) or do they just give the job to some coloring
>hack and don't credit them?

Yeah, I noticed that, too.  We can only hope that, if there is a human operator,
he/she is getting paid and not the computer.  >;-)

--MikE....First there was Computo....now there's Coloro!  }-)


-- 
********************************************************************************
Mike Escutia       | PLIABLE LAD OF THE LNH  |    UNH's #1 Quantum Leap fan
mre@kepler.unh.edu =============================================================
MikE@unh.edu       | CS Majors Rule!	     |PAD, Valiant, & Tick fan unequaled
********************************************************************************
    Follow the adventures of the Net.Patrol over in alt.comics.lnh and enjoy!
********************************************************************************
Newsgroups: rec.arts.comics.misc
From: mwhatt01@ulkyvx.louisville.edu
Subject: Re: British Authorsnew
Date: Sat, 23 Jan 1993 15:55:03 GMT
Organization: University of Louisville
Followup-To: rec.arts.comics.misc

> The ones that maje it over here are - if they weren't better than the 
> American authors who can meet with their editors for lunch in Manhattan, 
> it wouldn't be worth the hassle of importing them/their work.  
> 
> I actually believe Marvel UK continues to bear this out - bad as it is, 
> the (presumably) local talent they have doing the one-shots in MCP and
> the seasonal books are even worse (especially art-wise).  Although Marvel 
> UK has once and for all put the last nail in the coffin that British
> writers automatically mean comics with a bookish/literary feel.

When I typed the original posting I totally forgot about Marvel UK.
I think you're probably right about the hassle of inporting influencing
the quality.
From: rhr9081@hertz.njit.edu (Ray Rich)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.comics.misc
Subject: Re: Urges of a 501 murderous rage...
Date: 25 Jan 93 20:45:13 GMT
Organization: New Jersey Institute of Technology, Newark, N.J.

In article <1993Jan25.002521.13830@ns1.cc.lehigh.edu> pml3@ns1.cc.lehigh.edu (Paul Michael Lewis) writes:
>I was at the NYC convention this past Saturday (what a miserably produced
>show, BTW), and LO AND BEHOLD, look who came to grace us with his presence...
>
>501 himself!
>
>I was standing six feet away from him.  I could have rid the comics world of
>the high lord of heresy with a simple lunge and a two clenched fists around
>his throat.  But, for some unknown reason, I resisted...
>
>Maybe the size of his head, his short stature, and his annoying personality
>generated enough humor to justify letting him live.
>-- 
>+-| Paul Lewis |--| Jonestown: WLVR 91.3fm  Coming Soon...  |-+-------------+

	I saw button-brain on Sunday.  Quote of the Day: "Y'know, if
Liefeld ever drew the Peanuts' characters, they'd come out proportionate."

						Just my 2 cents,
							Time-Waster Lad
From: morrow@fnalo.fnal.gov (Elmo the Stunt Elk)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.comics.misc
Subject: Re: artists who draw themselves
Date: 26 Jan 93 23:55:15 -0600
Organization: The Eekcidental Tourist
NNTP-Posting-Host: fnalo.fnal.gov

birmingh@fnalo.fnal.gov (Phillip J. Birmingham) writes:
> MORROW@FNAL.FNAL.GOV (Greg Morrow) writes:
>> 	Did I mention[...]

>          Did he mention he's the Anti-pope?   :-)

	HERETIC!  UNBELIEVER!  I call upon all those who follow the 
True Faith of PAD may-his-name-be-blessed rise up and jihad the tar out
of the evil one who comes in the guise of sarcasm!
-- 
"The theologians had asked if women had a soul.  Several centuries later, some
 scientists were ready to refuse them a human intelligence."
--Leonce Manouvrier, 1903, on craniometry
  
elmo (morrow@physics.rice.edu,morrow@fnal.fnal.gov)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.comics.misc
From: jchokey@leland.Stanford.EDU (James Alexander Chokey)
Subject: Re: JLA #72 and a SERIOUS CASE OF DEJA VU!
Organization: DSG, Stanford University, CA 94305, USA
Date: Sat, 23 Jan 93 22:09:36 GMT


In article <C19yBo.HEv@news.cso.uiuc.edu> it was written:
>
>vanyel@camelot.bradley.edu (Alan Williams) writes:
>
>>>It was a lame issue regardless.  I picked it up because I remember
>>>the old JLofA and I liked the cover.
>
>>Oh, yeah, this is lame.  Real lame.  Right.
>
>Well
>  A)  The gratuitous violence didn't add anything to it for me.  eg The
>      mace (or morning star, whatever) to Sinestro's face
>  B)  It's a dream, so everyone can act out of character!  Oh boy,
>      what a great excuse for a writer incapable of writing anyone *in
>      character*
>  C)  No explanation is given for the events shown.  Were the events
>      worthwhile/interesting enough to carry the book on their own and
>      make up for the bad dialog?
>      IMHO, no, they were not.
>

	As opposed to previous issues of JLA?  Let's face it--  JLA is
and always has been a lame series, by the criteria posted above.  Gratuitous
violence has always been a major part of super-hero comic books--  and 
earlier issues of JLA have hardly been an exception to the rule.  As for 
people acting out of character, well, that's a problem that happens every
time different writers take on different characters--  characters's have
new "characters" every time a new writer writes them.  The problem of acting 
out of character, furthermore, is a problem found in virtually every sort of
team book, JLA included.  Bad dialogue has always been a mainstay in the JLA--
this issue is hardly any different from past issues in this regard.

	As for the lack of explanation--  well, I think that's one of the
few things that is actually quite _good_ about this issue.  Part of the fun
of reading it is trying to figure out just what is going on!  If they had 
come out on the first page and simply said "This is the year 1997," "this
is an alternate timeline," or "this is a dream of Dr. Destiny's, then that
_would_ have been truly lame.  At least this book engages the reader's mind
a tiny bit, which is more than I can say of any previous issue of the JLA.
Maybe it is just a rip-off of a Marvel mini-series, but it's still far more
interesting than anything that's appeared in the pages of this comic for as 
long as I can remember.  

	--  Jim C. <jchokey@leland.stanford.edu>




	
Newsgroups: rec.arts.comics.misc
From: jwtlai@jeeves.uwaterloo.ca (Jim W "GrimJim" Lai)
Subject: Re: SANDMAN: Annotation 40
Organization: University of Waterloo
Date: Thu, 21 Jan 1993 06:38:39 GMT

In article <1993Jan20.045656.1069@monu6.cc.monash.edu.au> apn207s@momth3.maths.monash.edu.au (Mr A Dempster) writes:
>I came to the same conclusion as Elmo (or was it LJC?) when I originally read
>this story.  The primary role of Lilith here was that of mother of all demons,
>while it was specifically stated that Eve lived to a very old age.  The
>picture at the end of Eve's story seems to back this up: Adam's last wife
>shown as an old woman (Crone), while the pictures of Lilith showed her as
>quite young and attractive (not at all Crone-like).
>  However, Adam's last wife *was* the Mother of all humanity, and being the
>mother of demons and other icky stuff sounds like the sort of thing a Crone
>would do, so I can see where you're coming from....

The Triple Goddess reference doesn't quite work since the various myths of
Adam's helpmeets (helpmates?) didn't share a common structure from the origin.
Now, how many of you out there knew when the Muses were three...?  Or one?
From: mre@kepler.unh.edu (Monty Python's Life of MikE)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.comics.misc
Subject: Re: Anybody likes PITT? Youngblood?
Date: 27 Jan 93 02:34:15 GMT
Organization: University of New Hampshire  -  Durham, NH
NNTP-Posting-Host: kepler.unh.edu

In article <93026.135055CM26ACCW@MIAMIU.BITNET> CM26ACCW@MIAMIU.BITNET writes:
>Not that Dale's idea was spectacular but the inside cover
>does say that he isn't responsible for the writing.
>It lists a writer.

I havn't bought it yet, but I do know that Keown plotted/coplotted the
book.  
--MikE...no time for a .sig.

-- 
*******************************************************************************
Mike Escutia       | PLIABLE LAD OF THE LNH |    UNH's #1 Quantum Leap fan
mre@kepler.unh.edu ============================================================
MikE@unh.edu       | CS Majors Rule!	    |PAD, Valiant, & Tick fan unequaled
*******************************************************************************
    Follow the adventures of the Net.Patrol over in alt.comics.lnh and enjoy!
*******************************************************************************
From: MORROW@FNAL.FNAL.GOV (Greg Morrow)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.comics.misc
Subject: Re: artists who draw themselves
Date: 21 Jan 1993 20:03:07 -0600
Organization: UTexas Mail-to-News Gateway
NNTP-Posting-Host: cs.utexas.edu

albert@chain.ssctr.bcm.tmc.edu (Rick Jones) writes:
> [elmo said]
>>	(Nope, it's not a good pickup line.  Oh, well.)
> 
> 	It's okay, Elmo.  But it's all delivery.  If you walked up 
> to her in your trenchcoat (after rumpling it) with a day's growth of
> beard, and a Brit accent, well, it might work.

	Trust me, my trenchcoat is -thoroughly- rumpled.  But I shaved
today, damn, and my accents tend to mutate spontaneously.  I did a Jamaican
Scot once....
	Did I mention I was tall, with dark hair, a strong chin, and great
legs (and an eensy weensy butt)?  
	Still no takers?  Ah, my life is hell....


	:-)
-- 
"I have a new philosophy.  I'm only going to dread one day at a time."
--Charles Schultz
  
elmo (morrow@physics.rice.edu,morrow@fnal.fnal.gov)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.comics.misc
From: dvandom@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (Dave Van Domelen)
Subject: Re: JLA #72, Flash's Costume
Organization: The Ohio State University
Date: Thu, 28 Jan 1993 15:24:55 GMT

Actually, note that the belt is only SOMETIMES like Wally's, other times it is 
the correct belt.  It flipflops without rhyme or reason, which would fit in 
with being a dream.
     Dave Van Domelen, beware the belch of the Aardvark!
Newsgroups: rec.arts.comics.misc
From: geurink@ccwf.cc.utexas.edu (Josh Geurink)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.comics.misc
Subject: Martian Manhunter
Date: 23 Jan 1993 20:58:25 GMT
Organization: The University of Texas at Austin, Austin TX
Distribution: world
Reply-To: geurink@ccwf.cc.utexas.edu (Josh Geurink)
NNTP-Posting-Host: sleepy.cc.utexas.edu
Originator: geurink@sleepy.cc.utexas.edu

I just read that new issue of JLA, and I have but one question...

Is the MM as powerful as they make him out to be?!?  I've never been
a particular fan of his... but from what I remember (I've ignored DC
since Crisis happened, with the Exception of Green Lantern) there's no
way he could've trashed Sinestro so easily. 

Of course, I _could_ be wrong...

=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
King Rat                       | "You got the power (Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha!)"
Josh Geurink, C.V.E.           | "You got the might (No way!)"
_C_ertified _V_ampire _E_xpert | "Get ready for battle (Give me your money!)"
geurink@ccwf.cc.utexas.edu     | "Defeat the Black Knight!"
`:'`:'`:'`:'`:'`:'`:'`:'`:'`:'`:'`:'`:'`:'`:'`:'`:'`:'`:'`:'`:'`:'`:'`:'`:'`:'
From: lawrence@ctron.com (Gary S. St. Lawrence)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.comics.misc
Subject: Re: LNH: Continuity
Date: 26 Jan 93 14:51:59 GMT
Reply-To: lawrence@tw1.samsung.com (Gary S. St. Lawrence)
Organization: Cabletron Systems INc.

Are we not MEN?

	NOOOO! Scav *told* you! We are not MARVEL!!!

Get it right, willya? Sheesh!

(  ... Does this also mean that we are not DC? Not Image? Not Darkhorse? 
	Not Impact? Not Kitchen Sink? No .....?)

I sense a pattern forming here.

Saint.

P.M. + O.L.
Newsgroups: rec.arts.comics.misc
From: pduggan@world.std.com (Paul C Duggan)
Subject: Re: Sandman Thoughts!!!
Organization: The World Public Access UNIX, Brookline, MA
Date: Thu, 21 Jan 1993 22:44:27 GMT

In article <93021.113439U58505@uicvm.uic.edu> <U58505@uicvm.uic.edu> writes:
>the flip side of God is the Chaos being from Alan Moore's Gothic Saga in
>Swamp Thing.  According to Milton's Paradise Lost, the Chaos being is an
>entity supposedly equal in power to God.

Say what?!?

Where in Milton do you get that idea?

paul duggan