HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: dtate+@pitt.edu (David M Tate)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
Subject: Re: Taking Third
Date: 29 Jul 92 19:18:55 GMT
Organization: Factors of Ys, Inc.

In article <1992Jul29.172601.13911@u.washington.edu> hiegel@redx.washington.edu (Brian Hiegel) writes:
>What is the value of third base when there are two outs?  Is it ever worth 
>the risk to steal third with two outs?  I know the old saying "never make 
>the first or third out of an inning at third," but is that always the case.
>Can someone tell me a situation when you go against this rule?

With 2 outs, moving a runner from second to third increases your chance of
scoring at least one run by about 0.05, and your expected runs scored by
about 0.06 or so.  If you have a poor hitter coming up, you need to be at 
least 80% sure of stealing successfully, in order to make this a good gamble.
With a good hitter up, you need to be 90% sure or better.  (Roughly)

Of course, if the bad hitter who is up is the pitcher, and this isn't a one
run situation (9th inning, tie score), then the value of clearing the pitcher
in the batting order probably outweighs the marginal value of the extra base.
The traditional wisdom on this play seems quite sound.  On the other hand,
if they're going to *give* you the base by not holding you or covering third,
by all means take it.



-- 
        David M. Tate        | "And that inverted Bowl we call The Dome
   dtate@unix.cis.pitt.edu   |  Whereunder crawling coop'd we field and bat,
   Edward "Mike" Fitzgerald  |     Lift not your eyes to *it* for help--for it
     from "The Ruthaiyat"    |  Will drop the tow'ring fly upon your hat."
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
From: silber@m.cs.uiuc.edu (Ami A. Silberman)
Subject: Re: OBPxSLG
Organization: University of Illinois, Dept. of Comp. Sci., Urbana, IL
Distribution: na
Date: Thu, 23 Jul 1992 00:13:52 GMT

dtate+@pitt.edu (David M Tate) writes:

>>and ERA as a pitching measure.

>Fine, as long as you take park effects into account.

And ignore it for relievers. (Or at least take it with a grain of salt.)
It doesn't count inherited runners. Myself, I use OBA+SLG for pitchers as
well.
-- 
ami silberman - janitor of lunacy
	silber@cs.uiuc.edu
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
From: piz@cbnewsl.cb.att.com (G G ZIPFEL)
Subject: Brett Update?
Organization: AT&T
Distribution: na
Date: Tue, 28 Jul 1992 18:16:51 GMT

	Any Brett-Heads out there? How has Brett done this week?
	I haven't seen a box score in a while (for KC).

	Can he make it this year? He still needs more than 1 hit per game 
	right?


-- 
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
          Zip                  |   Owner/GM West Chicago Zippers,           
Steelers in 92, Bubby's Back!  |   Obviously the funniest team in the IBL.   
"Anything that travels that far oughta have a damn stewardess on it"
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
From: exujeff@exu.ericsson.se (Jeff Thompson)
Subject: Re: ruling question
Organization: Ericsson Network Systems, Inc.
Date: Sat, 25 Jul 1992 13:26:11 GMT

In article <BrxJG5.H2J@news.cso.uiuc.edu> jcp29389@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (BEACH VOLLEYBALL!!!) writes:
>Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
>Path: exucom.exu.ericsson.se!ericom!sunic!mcsun!uunet!munnari.oz.au!mips!mips!sdd.hp.com!ux1.cso.uiuc.edu!news.cso.uiuc.edu!uxa.cso.uiuc.edu!jcp29389
>From: jcp29389@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (BEACH VOLLEYBALL!!!)
>Subject: ruling question
>Message-ID: <BrxJG5.H2J@news.cso.uiuc.edu>
>Sender: usenet@news.cso.uiuc.edu (Net Noise owner)
>Organization: University of Illinois at Urbana
>Date: Sat, 25 Jul 1992 05:33:40 GMT
>Lines: 13

>what if a batter hits a line drive that hits an umpire and deflects to a
>player who catches the ball before it hits the ground.  is that a catch or
>is the umpire considered to be part of the ground?

>jay
>-----------------------------------------------
>i guess of all my uncles, i liked uncle
>cave man the best.  we called him that
>because he lived in a cave and because
>sometimes he'd eat one of us.  later
>on we found out he was a bear.     -Jack Handey
>-----------------------------------------------

}I beleive the play is dead if a player did not have a chance to field the 
ball. Since both 1st base and Third base upms are in foul territory, a line 
drive is hardly considered playable I would think...I will look up the 
ruling a post mon.
/jeff
============================================================================
Jeff Thompson M/S B-07     || DAoubULLS                 || YOU CAN'T HEAR
Ericsson Network Systems   || TWIN for the TWINS in '92 ||    IF YOUR
P.O. BOX 833875            || PURPLE IS IN              ||    LIPS ARE
Richardson, TX. 75083-3875 || WOLVES ARE CHRISTIANs TOO ||     MOVING
============================================================================
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
From: thornley@cs.umn.edu (David H. Thornley)
Subject: Re: MLB Standings and Scores for Mon, Jul 27th, 1992
Organization: University of Minnesota, Minneapolis, CSci dept.
Date: Thu, 30 Jul 1992 16:33:45 GMT

In article <1992Jul29.235454.21369@uwm.edu> paul@csd4.csd.uwm.edu (Paul R Krueger) writes:
>In article <1992Jul29.232312.9566@leland.Stanford.EDU> claudius@leland.Stanford.EDU (Nelson Lu) writes:
>>In article <1992Jul29.215400.4939@uwm.edu> paul@csd4.csd.uwm.edu (Paul R Krueger) writes:
>>
>>>
>>>And, no I don't want to start a big diccussion about it, but stats are
>>>overrated! 
>>>
>>
>>I agree with your last statement 100%!  The most overrated one of them all
>>is the W-L stat...
>>
>  Yet in my mind, the most important...
>
W-L is the most important stat for the team (in some contexts, the only
important one).  For pitchers, it is extremely overrated.

If you want a little perspective, find an Elias analyst and look at the
team articles.  They provide W-L records for games that each player started
at each position.  Last year, for example, the Twins went 20-15 in games
where Morris started as pitcher, and 40-21 on games where Shane Mack
started in right field.  By this line of reasoning, Shane Mack was far
better at winning as a right fielder than Morris was as a pitcher, and with
a much larger sample size to boot.

Should the newspaper listings for the Twins have listed the starting
right fielder rather than the starting pitcher?  Should we call Mack a
winning right fielder just like some people are calling Jack Morris a
winning pitcher?  If not, why not?  We are proceeding from the same
reasoning, W-L records when players start.  You can argue that the pitcher
has more influence on the game than the right fielder, but if you
discount all the pitcher's other stats (ERA, H/9, W/9, K/9, etc.)
you discount the primary ways the pitcher can influence the game, so
that argument is of no avail.

David Thornley
"When a pitching coach thinks more of himself than the team, and in all
his actions seeks his own profit, such a man will never be a good pitching
coach" - Niccolo Machiavelli

Sh


Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
From: dtodd@wizard.encore.com (Donald Todd)
Subject: Info needed
Reply-To: dtodd@wizard.encore.com (Donald Todd)
Organization: Encore Computer Corporation
Date: Tue, 28 Jul 1992 17:31:35 GMT


A group of co-workers were having a discussion and the topic of Oriental
Baseball Players came up.  We were wondering if there were any Oriental
players in MLB.

Someone suggested that Rafael Belliard (SS, for Atlanta) may be Oriental,
even though his name implies that he may be Hispanic.

Does anyone know what his nationality is?

Thanks!

-Don

Please send responses to dtodd@encore.com
From: ccastmm@prism.gatech.EDU (Mike Marler)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
Subject: Re: WHAT SHOULD THE DODGERS DO???
Date: 27 Jul 92 17:59:33 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: Georgia Institute of Technology

THE DODGERS SHOULD SUFFER IN THE LOWER HALF OF THE DIVISION - just like the
Braves (Standing O - please), Astros and Padres have for years :-).

In <182791@pyramid.pyramid.com> stown@pyramid.COM (Scott Townsend) writes:

>Another thing that I fel that the Dodgers need to do is to give Lasorda
>another job in the organization and take him off the field as manager.

Any bets on after this season?  Or does he want to go out on a better note?

>Tommy has done many great things for the team. But, I feel that he no longer 
>has the ability to manage in the majors. His constant shuffeling of players
>on and off the field is ,to me, an indicationof his uncertainties. He also
>seems to stay with his starting pitchers too long. He also seems to have
          ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Can anyone think of a worse "practice" by Pasta Tommy?
And "while Tommy is at it", he should tell all of his players to stop
getting injuries :-).  Without their injuries where would they be at?

>trouble communicating with the superstars. Why didn't Daryl go to a rehab
>assignment in AAA before making his totally unimpressive return after many
>days on the DL. 

Ask the Strawman.  I have a different question.  Is Strawberry the next
Bob Horner type?  I am sure that he has had to play in pain many times
before now.

And remember to keep 'dem Dodgers done - now, now - just kidding.
Aw, shucks and Los Bravos are moving to the East next year.


-- 

Mike Marler                        | "Saving every nickel to spend on my
Internet: ccastmm@prism.gatech.edu |  my next set of thrills..." -somebody
Disclaimer: These views are not and should not be viewed as those of OIT.
From: cubbie@garnet.berkeley.edu (   )
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
Subject: Re: GMaddux to Test Free Agency Waters
Date: 21 Jul 1992 19:59:58 GMT
Organization: University of California, Berkeley
NNTP-Posting-Host: garnet.berkeley.edu

Dennis Eckersley accepted a two-year 2 million/year contract with the As.
He said he was thankful that the As gave me a chance in 87 (after the
bad season with the Cubs) and he would not think about playing elsewhere.
He may earn more than Maddux if he enters free agency. It is nice to hear
some human-touch at the midst of $$$ and contract disputes.




Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
From: usscoop1@bnr.ca (Chuck McCusker P015)
Subject: Re: The Two Ways Of Looking At The A's Chances
Organization: Bell-Northern Research, BNR-RTP 
Distribution: na
Date: Thu, 30 Jul 1992 12:19:26 GMT

In article <Bs5IEw.MpK@cs.dal.ca>, niguma@ug.cs.dal.ca (Gordon Niguma) writes:
|>   I find the A's perhaps the most interesting team thus far in the American
|> League and there are two ways of looking at their chances for a championship
|> season:
|> 
|>   1) They don't actually have that great a team. How many good players do they
|> The team just doesn't have enough to win.
|>   2) Well they've gotten this far with what they've got and when Henderson (Dave
|> and Rickey) and Canseco snuff up to form the A's will really start to kick butt.
|> Considering their injuries early to their two best players the A's can still
|> win the division.
|> 
|>

I think that both ways are correct. They dont have a great team but they have
gotten this far with what they got. Plus the Twins, until the A's came to town
(woof) :) have been playing over their heads. I do agree that the Twins are the
best team in the West, but I think their slow start will hurt them. The one 
thing I've noticed the last two years is that the spirit of the team has been
missing. Meaning in 89 and 90 (I didnt see many games in 88), when I would
watch an A's game it always seem to follow this scenerio - Two or three
innings at 0-0. Opposing team scores a run in their half of the inning, A's
score 2 or three in the next half. I can remember at least 4 or 5 called shots
on my part. You could feel when Jose or Mark were going to hit one out. And
no that wasn't 4 or 5 out of 30. It was 4 or 5 out of 5 or 6. Anyway - Last
night was the closesting I've seen to a team spirit in a while. Down 4-2 to
the Twins in the top of the 9th "BOOM" 3 run HR by Fox (who?). Last year the
A's would have just rolled over. I'm hoping this continues. Well, there is my
not-so-technical evaluation of the A's.

Chuck Ross - As long as they are a power team, A's forever.
From: jm0i@ns1.cc.lehigh.edu (JOSEPH ALOYSIUS MCVEIGH)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
Subject: Re: Cone threw how many pitches?
Date: 24 Jul 92 21:13:02 GMT
Organization: Lehigh University

kbos@carina.unm.edu (Kurt Bose "of Biscayzee") writes:

>Buddy Harrelson must be back.  Cone pitch counts last year included 148, 137,
>138, 139, and 141.  The most pitches thrown an ANY NL game last year was 154.

Well, he survived and pitched well in his last start. But according to the NY
Times, he's averaged 141 pitches over his last six starts. This is
confirmation that the home bullpen at Shea is there solely to save HR balls
for the next day's BP.

-- 
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Joseph Aloysius McVeigh  | "When you're a guru, it's easy to emphasize your
       **********        |        successes and ignore your failures."
       "N.I.N.A."        |   (John Rekenthaler, on stock market "experts")
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: rogers@pnet51.orb.mn.org (Bob Rogers)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
Subject: Hardball III
Date: 24 Jul 92 21:25:01 GMT
Organization: People-Net [pnet51], Minneapolis, MN.

I'm looking for a source of team files for the game "Hardball III".  Since it
can use files from "Tony LaRussa Baseball" and "Earl Weaver II", any pointers
to ftp sites and/or BBSs for those would be appreciated, too.  Also, I'd like
to hear from you if you know about utility programs for "Hardball III" or have
figured out the file formats to write team or stadium utilities.  Please
respond via email to "rogers@itech.com", thanks.


UUCP: {crash, kksys, petrus, quest}!orbit!pnet51!rogers
ARPA: crash!orbit!pnet51!rogers@nosc.mil
INET: rogers@pnet51.orb.mn.org or rogers@itech.com
GEnie: R.C.ROGERS
From: kbos@carina.unm.edu (Kurt Bose "of Biscayzee")
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
Subject: Re: Value of Stats
Date: 22 Jul 92 05:13:14 GMT
Organization: University of New Mexico

In article <BrrGCL.FI7@undergrad.math.waterloo.edu> djohnson@cayley.waterloo.edu (David Johnson) writes:
>In article <1992Jul21.193757.8909@maccs.dcss.mcmaster.ca> sinhaa@maccs.dcss.mcmaster.ca (Anand Sinha) writes:
>>In article <Brr235.D8s@undergrad.math.waterloo.edu> djohnson@cayley.waterloo.edu (David Johnson) writes:
>>>In article <1992Jul21.160012.29170@maccs.dcss.mcmaster.ca> sinhaa@maccs.dcss.mcmaster.ca (Anand Sinha) writes:
>>
>>Are you sure that having a good time creates a better atmosphere? How do 
>>Rance Mulliniks, Derek Bell and Rob Ducey feel about Winfield? Could they 
>>blame him for lack of playing time? I don't know, but it's a worthwhile
>>consideration.
>
>If Rance Mulliniks, Derek Bell, and Rob Ducey don't think that a .300 hitter
>15HR and 50 RBI man so far shouldn't be playing then they shouldn't be
>considered team players as well.  
>
OK, Dave, at your company, instead of having you make 30 widgets a day, we're
going to pay some guy who makes 40 widgets a day three times as much as you.
I certainly hope you're going to be a team employee about this.  Especially next
year when we cut your salary by 10% because you didn't make any widgets last 
year.  What, you say?  You could have made some widgets last year if we gave you
a chance?  You ungrateful lout.  You're just not a team employee.  

>>Hm. "Obviously good for the team"?? How is it "obviously good for the team" when
>>it meant that Syl Campusano had to play the OF and Cecil Fielder got no PAs? Let's
>
>It is obvious that the team didn't think much of Cecil at that time as they
>let him leave for Japan.
>
Er, huh?  Fielder ASKED to go to Japan, because he was playing behind Bell and
Freddie McGriff, and therefore couldn't play full time.

>Even if the Bell to DH move would be a bad one Bell should have respected the
>manager and either agreed to play there part time or privately ask for a 
>trade like some players.  If he had of been a little quieter about him not
>wanting to DH but still privately discuss the issue with management then
>the fans would have never booed him and he may still be in Toronto (Awful
>Thought).
>
>     b)If the management doesn't respect you and doesn't think you
>       are doing a good job, why should he have to respect the management.

You referred to Winfield here, defending his New York surliness label, but 
apply it with your other quote about Bell, above.  Whoa. Contradiction city.

Question:  If the management doesn't respect Bell and doesn't think he was doing
a good job, why should George have to respect Jimy Williams?


-- 
*  Kurt Bose (as in * I am NOT the Antichrist, no matter what my future mother
*  Daisy, not Rose) * in law may think. Nor do I pretend to speak for UNM. Tried
*kbos@carina.unm.edu* it one time, but they caught me at it. I think they were a
*  Junior Stathead  * tad miffed at me, sure, but the Dean's hair DID grow back.
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
From: tanenbla@cs.columbia.edu (Michael Tanenblatt)
Subject: Re: Cone threw how many pitches?
Organization: Columbia University Department of Computer Science
Distribution: na
Date: Wed, 22 Jul 1992 18:12:48 GMT

In article <3488@blue.cis.pitt.edu.UUCP> rrmst3+@pitt.edu (Roberto R Molinari) writes:

  From: rrmst3+@pitt.edu (Roberto R Molinari)
  Date: 22 Jul 92 04:45:47 GMT

  While watching some of the Dodgers/Mets game tonite I remembered something
  I heard a day or so ago, but I just can't believe is true.  According to the
  some announcers (I can't remember who since I don't remember which game I was
  watching at the time), David Cone threw *166* pitches in his start last week.
  Can anyone confirm/deny this?  And on the same subject, what's the record for
  most pitches thrown by one pitcher in a game.  I'd especially like to hear
  what the record is for the last 15 or so years.

  thanks,

  bert
  -diehard sox fan (red that is)

Yes, this is true.  If Franco was available, maybe Cone would have been
pulled for the ninth, but he did have a shutout going, so perhaps not.
Whatever bad things people have to say about the Mets (myself included),
you must admit that this guy can pitch.  In fact, Dwight Gooden has said
that Cone is the one guy he loves to watch when he is on the mound, since
he has so many good pitches and he is not afraid of anyone.  And, of
course, you never know when he'll lose his cool and do something totally
new and different, like hold the ball and argue with an umpire while people
are circling the bases...

--
Michael Tanenblatt
tanenbla@flounder.cs.columbia.edu
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
From: stanm@comm.mot.com (Stan Macasieb)
Subject: Game 1: Cubs vs Buckos
Reply-To: stanm@comm.mot.com
Organization: Motorola
Date: Tue, 28 Jul 1992 16:23:09 GMT

Wow, what a pitchers' duel between Doug Drabek and Greg Maddux, the Battle
of the Free Agent Pitchers.

In the end, Mad Dog had just a little more moxie, Sammy Sosa exploded in
his first game back, and Cubs had just enough offense to edge the Pirates
3-2 and move to within 5.5 of the frontrunners.

This afternoon, it's Randy Tomlin vs Mike Morgan. Should be interesting.

Sorry, no Harry Carayisms today.

--Stan Macasieb (stanm@comm.mot.com) watching the Olympics to see the next
    time Charles Barkely gets a technical.

Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
From: meadows@cslvax.weeg.uiowa.edu
Subject: Re: Cub's question
Reply-To: meadows@cslvax.weeg.uiowa.edu
Organization: U. of Iowa - Weeg Computing Center
Distribution: usa
Date: Thu, 23 Jul 1992 16:50:36 GMT

In article <1992Jul23.001129.2238@dartvax.dartmouth.edu>, riff@coos.dartmouth.edu (Christopher P. Riff) writes:
>I see that Mike Harkey started for the Cubs a couple of nights
>ago.  Who did the Cubs drop from the roster to make room for 
>Harkey?  Thanks in advance,
>
>Chris Riff
>riff@dartmouth.edu
>
    It was third baseman Doug Strange who was sent to their Iowa AAA
team in Des Moines. Sammy Sosa is due back in a week or so, and they'll
need to make another roster move then. I suspect it'll be one of the
outfielders or Luis Salazar.

Howard

***************************************************************************
* Howard Meadows       Sr. Systems Programmer     Weeg Computing Center   *
* University Of Iowa   Iowa City, Iowa  52242     Phone: 319-335-5519     *
* meadows@cslvax.weeg.uiowa.edu        or         meadowva@uiamvs.bitnet  *
***************************************************************************
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
From: cwhui@cayley.waterloo.edu (Chen W. Hui)
Subject: Re: Jays: Gillick says there will be a trade
Organization: University of Waterloo
Date: Fri, 31 Jul 1992 14:18:11 GMT

In article <Bs89AL.G1B@undergrad.math.waterloo.edu>, cjlee@laplace.uwaterloo.ca (Ironman) writes:
> Pat Gillick says that he is "confident" that he'll make a trade soon.
> Just who will the Jays get?  I know they need a left-handed bat.
> With KC in town, would George Brett be the one?  And what about that
> California rumor?
> 
> And who would the Jays give up?  Gruber?  Stottlemyre?  Steib?
> 

A trade was made on Thursday between the Jays and California.
The Jays gave away Ducey and Myers for Mark Eichorn, the submarine pitcher
who has previously played for Toronto.

Personally, I think this is a great deal.  The Jays need bullpen help - I 
was at Wednesday's game where Timlin pitched himself and the team out of a
close game.  Both Myers and Ducey were basically bench warmers and are better
off getting a chance to play more regularly.  Besides, Toronto has a couple of
good, young catchers in Randy Knorr and Ed Sprague, both of whom were called up,
to backup Borders.

I think there may be another deal today but I hope Gillick doesn't give away
the bank to get Abbot or another starter.

Chen.