From: pharvey@quack.sac.ca.us (Paul Harvey)
Subject: Re: Men's Mysteries
Organization: The Duck Pond public unix: +1 408 249 9630, log in as 'guest'.
	<2AAEE2D8.20878@news.service.uci.edu> <BuD3nA.n09@encore.com>
Date: Fri, 11 Sep 1992 00:21:26 GMT

In article <BuD3nA.n09@encore.com> aaldrich@encore.com (Al Aldrich) writes:
>For myself, I have started to develop with my closest male
>friends an idea of mentoring each other's kids . 

I think that's good, gives different perspectives, avoids the tension
between father and son that can block progress. A son has to separate
from the father at this age, this is not easy for father or son, other
men and boys can break this tension.

>We have a couple of years
>to go since all of our kids are still < 10, but I think by the time
>they get to the age of transition ( whatever that is ), that we will have
>developed the idea enough to conduct some sort of passage rite that we feel
>is appropriate. 

An idea for what it's worth. Go on a quest, a journey, road trip by car,
backpack, just walk, whatever, some environment that forces the people
involved to address only the issue, no distractions. I'm not saying you
have to talk constantly about the meaning of man, just eliminate day to
day distractions like, gotta go to school, gotta go to work, gotta play
with friends, gotta go to an adult party, etc. Get little sleep, use
sleep deprevation as a food of the gods, it is a powerful drug. Just
father and son, but if other fathers and sons are at the same point,
that would be better. I think it has to be male only, but a father
should not forget his daughters, they may require the same initiation in
the modern world, or maybe the mother should do the same. Don't get to
worried about the proper things to say. The best things can not be said.
The point is that at the end of the journey, both of you are exhausted,
this should be a trip that is never forgoten, you should both feel
changed and ready to face a new world in your new relaitionship of
father to man. This is the standard paleolithic initiation, if there is
such a thing, rather boring don't you think? Only the spectacular and
almost unbelievable initiations get popular press. Fear and violence is a
modern, warfare idea. But, let your son volunteer some ideas also,
perhaps a piercing of some type, if he so desires. The idea is to have a
ritual that is the equivalent of female menses. You start the ritual
with father and son, and you come out both changed, father and man.
Don't forget that you must change also. Time? Probably a week minimum,
maybe a month. This is something that is only done once so don't
trivialize it. Experience? I did this with my dad and I think it worked,
it certainly was something we both will never forget. It forges a new
bond of understanding. I don't think either of us wanted to do it at the
time, but we did, well I don't think I had much of a choice, but I did
agree to do it, I wasn't forced. What did we do? Backcountry for about a
month.

>BTW..who has ideas on if there
>IS an age that is appropriate for this sort of transition message.

I think the way to go is to start making plans a little before puberty
and kind of discuss when and hopefully the son decides when, more or
less with some proding by dad. I think all boys get restless and
rebellious at some age, usually around puberty, that's about the time
for this. The exact time is arrived at by a negotiation process between
father and son, but dad may have to watch the time, it flies fast.
Newsgroups: alt.pagan