HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: heuvdp@cbmnl.nl.so.commodore.com (Paul Heu vd Netherlands)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
Subject: Re: Amiga 4000/Atari Falcon
Date: 21 Aug 92 08:10:47 GMT
Organization: Commodore Netherlands

jerry@connection.prospect.com (Jerry Shekhel) writes:
> heuvdp@cbmnl.nl.so.commodore.com (Paul Heu vd Netherlands) writes:

> >How about the ability to open a shell, start an editor which
> >detaches itself from that shell, opens it's own screen and
> >return the shell to the user who can then use the SAME shell
> >for another operation..
> 
> This is easy to do in OS/2.  If you've never used OS/2, why
> comment on it and spread your ignorance?

You're really saying you can use multiple screen with OS/2..
I have not been able to get this done on the Intelmachine on
the desk across mine.. Please then tell me how this is done. I
cannot say I do not like OS/2. for the Intel platform it is
quite good. But it simply does not feel as smooth as Release 2
on my Amy.. It *IS* good though (my opinion).
-- 
     //        Whatever I write here are my personal opinions..
   \X/         E-mail : heuvdp@cbmnl.nl.so.commodore.com                  

            LIVE from the Mothership, the StarChild is here...
From: root@rkamiga.UUCP (Rick Kelly)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
Subject: Re:  DIR
Distribution: world
Date: 17 Aug 92 15:08:48 EST
Organization: Rick's Amiga

In article <1992Aug17.022544.28157@ucsu.Colorado.EDU> chuj@horton.Colorado.EDU (CHU JEFFREY) writes:
>In article <185@future.sbc.com> mk9629@future.UUCP (Mike R. Kraml) writes:
>>In article <1992Aug13.014759.3055@usl.edu> das9674@usl.edu (Stephenson Daniel A) writes:
>>>I beleive the full 50Mhz 486 runs a little over 40 MIPS, maybe 41-42.          
>>
>>   I kind of doubt it, the 486/50 dx2 which does run internally at 50MHZ
>>   averages 9 MIPs on the C&T MIPS benchmark, which, I believe does a 
>>   pretty good job with a general instruction, integer, memory to memory,
>>   register to register, and register to memory instruction mix.  Granted
>>   the straight 50 will do better on the memory access tests, however, 
>>   its only a fraction of the equation.  Overall, you could probably 
>>   expect around 10-12 MIPS (using a decent MIPS benchmark) on the 
>>   50 MHZ 486 DX chip.  Sorry, couldn't resist.  Mike...
>>
>>>*Dan Stephenson   das9674@usl.edu 
>
>Yet most specs done are not using C&T, I believe they use PM.

OPTI, which made the 386/33 motherboard in my UNIX box use Power Meter 1.30.
They claim 8.120 MIPS.  They used Norton SI version 4.5 and claimed 41.3.
I ran SI 4.5 on the board myself and I got 42.5 as the result.  It does
sound like OPTI was being conservative.


--
Rick Kelly		Rick's Amiga		Framingham, Mass.

		think!unixland!rmkhome!rkamiga!root

Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy,comp.sys.amiga.misc
From: ggiles@cie.uoregon.edu (Gregg Giles)
Subject: Re: Pournelle (and Byte) strikes again!
Organization: University of Oregon Campus Information Exchange
Date: Wed, 19 Aug 92 16:23:14 GMT


   `... the Amiga now boots from ROM ...' (paraphrased)
   Wow! Nobody ever told me that! When did Commodore sneak this one in on us!?
Will the miracles never cease...? <Big hysterical laugh><Grin>

   For the clueless: THAT WAS A JOKE. 

-- 
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Gregg Giles (Dynamix, Inc.)                 BIX: ggiles 
All opinions expressed are my own.          Internet: ggiles@cie.uoregon.edu
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: george@ibmpcug.co.uk (Michael Veltman)
Subject: Re: 21 Rules for c.s.a.a postings
X-Disclaimer: The views expressed in this article are those of the author
	alone and may not represent the views of the IBM PC User Group.
Organization: The IBM PC User Group, UK.
Date: Tue, 18 Aug 1992 19:38:48 GMT

In article <1992Aug17.105340.8911@bsu-ucs.uucp> 01ksdavis@bsu-ucs.uucp writes:
>		14:Postings by alleged artificial intelligence machines must
>		  be backed up by the posting of their source code so we can
>		  distinguish real people from the machines (sorry, couldn't 
>		  resist this, you can ignore it, if you want to HAL :>)


Might I suggest:

                14.5:Postings to c.a.s.a about C='s plans should be sent 
                  with a digitised CAT scan of the poster's brain, so we can
                  see if there's any neural tissue in there generating the 
                  post.

-- 
Michael Veltman          |  george@ibmpcug.co.uk        | email direct, save                             |                              | some bandwidth

"At a cardiac arrest, the first step is to take your own pulse"     Samuel Shem      - The House of GOD -

Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
From: gfm@hal.gnu.ai.mit.edu (George Francis McBay)
Subject: Re: Why the A600? Some ZEN marketing VooDoo?
Organization: /etc/organization
Date: Thu, 13 Aug 1992 20:36:47 GMT

In article <1992Aug12.205736.11004@microsoft.com> iank@microsoft.com (Ian Kennedy) writes:
>What do you think? Why did C= release the A600?

	I've been thinking about it, and taking into account the circumstances
of it's release (Was released in Europe a long time ago, but still not here)
I think it may be a machine they will try to sell mostly to the Eastern
Euro nations, the ones who bought 80,000 c64s.  Of course selling them to
the rest of the world, if profitable,would be good too.  I deleted a lot
of Ian's original message so people who read it didn't have to reread it :)
But...Yes, I think they are going to try and maintain two different lines,
it's not all that strange, there are large differences in the Mac vs Mac II
vs Quadra lines (However the programs written for them almost transparently
accept any system, maybe commodore will eventually be able to work such 'use
it if you got it' hooks into the OS, according to Rumors WB3.0's DIG is a 
step in the right direction)

And also according to rumor: There will be two types of the new machines
, an A1200 (800?) and A4000 (2200?) the 4000 supporting 040, the 1200
supporting 030 or 020, the 4000 having a "Future upgrade" (Ala intel) socket
for DSP chips....So even each line will have an upper and lower end.
From: peterk@cbmger.de.so.commodore.com (Dr Peter Kittel Germany)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
Subject: Re: CDTV is dead.
Date: 17 Aug 92 11:27:59 GMT
Organization: Commodore Germany

In article <Bt1Fo4.JrK@CAM.ORG>, pepin@CAM.ORG (Jean Pepin) writes:
> peterk@cbmger.de.so.commodore.com (Dr Peter Kittel Germany) writes:
> 
> >No way. *NO* serious company would answer such questions about relations
> >with its staff or future politics in public. 

How can you argue with this sentence??? If we would talk about technical
details, ok, then I can understand you want more info. But when it deals
with details of why some person left some company, then such details *have*
to be kept confidential, haven't they? And this was exactly what your
questions were about.

> The question is, it's right or wrong, not serious non-serious. I know CBM 
> associates non-democratic to serious. Did you think i was expecting an answer?

This is even super-democratic! Serving respect to ex-members of a company
and not talking about them after their back is proper behaviour I was
always taught! (BTW, you can't get any info from me, because I really
do not know any details about that. I just had to flame you to ask such
stupid questions.)

> You are just confirm than we can only receive information by respectable
> people like Marc Barrett, who try to retablish democracy. 

This was ironic, I strongly hope. Else prepare for the fact that Marc's
postings more often and often turn out to be blatantly false. And any
company improves its reputation in my eyes that doesn't get provoked
by such attempts and keeps its sound policy.

-- 
Best regards, Dr. Peter Kittel  // E-Mail to \\  Only my personal opinions...
Commodore Frankfurt, Germany  \X/ {uunet|pyramid|rutgers}!cbmvax!cbmger!peterk
				   or  peterk@public.sub.org
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy,comp.sys.amiga.misc
From: das9674@usl.edu (Stephenson Daniel A)
Subject: Re: I'm SICK of Multiple Postings!
Organization: University of Southwestern Louisiana
Date: Sat, 15 Aug 1992 02:47:11 GMT

In article <Mike_Noreen.075k%cave@sweden.eu.net> Mike_Noreen%cave@sweden.eu.net (Mike Noreen) writes:
>Am I the only one who gets annoyed when forced (well, sortof..) to read the
>same messages in two-three conferences?

Isn't it awful?

>-- Via DLG Pro v0.992
>
>Mike_Noreen%cave@sweden.eu.net
>cave!Mike_Noreen
--
*Dan Stephenson   das9674@usl.edu 
*"It reminds me of something Cally said. 'He who trusts cannot be
*betrayed, only mistaken.' It was a saying of her people.... Cally is
*dead. So are most of her people." -Avon, from _Rescue_ (Blakes 7)
From: Ianm@gandalf.UUCP (Ian Moran)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
Subject: Cheer Up
Date: 12 Aug 92 07:48:20 GMT
Organization: Private Amiga Site

I have just come to this newsgroup from Fidonet and must say I'm amazed at
the general lack of fun folk in here have with their Amiga!

--


Regards

  Ian

           //  Fidonet - Ian Moran @ 2:257/10.1 & 2:440/59.5"
         \X/            Usenet - ianm@icsbelf.uucp"
From: daveh@cbmvax.commodore.com (Dave Haynie)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
Subject: Re: No AA machines in September
Date: 13 Aug 92 16:55:11 GMT
Reply-To: daveh@cbmvax.commodore.com (Dave Haynie)
Organization: Commodore, West Chester, PA

In article <AHANSFOR.92Aug6182122@guardian.wpi.edu> ahansfor@guardian.wpi.edu (Andrew L. Hansford) writes:

>Even if the AA machines were announce next month they will probably be
>scheduled to ship in January and actually show up in May. (Remember
>the lag time between A3000 Introduction  and shipping. And the additional time
>to get 2.0 out, 16 month after its initial planned release.)

I remember it well.  The A3000 was introduced on April 24, 1990.  At the 
introduction, it was scheduled to ship in mid June.  It shipped in mid June,
on the 18th as I recall, with 2.00.  2.04 came along later, sure, but that's
because it was decided at some point that we would wait until 2.04 was ready
before any ROM machines were upgraded.  Much of this was based on compatibility
issues.

-- 
Dave Haynie Commodore-Amiga (Amiga 3000) "The Crew That Never Rests"
   {uunet|pyramid|rutgers}!cbmvax!daveh      BIX: hazy
	"Work like a horse, drink like a fish"	- Psychefunkapus
From: lawsons@csgrad.cs.vt.edu (Shannon Lawson)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
Subject: Re: CDTV is dead.
Date: 18 Aug 92 15:39:29 GMT
Organization: VPI&SU Computer Science Department, Blacksburg, VA

In article <34413@cbmvax.commodore.com> daveh@cbmvax.commodore.com (Dave Haynie) writes:
>
>Sure, if you wanted to, you could spend more than $2K on add-ons, but none of
>that was necessary at the time to run games or most other early programs (even
>Deluxe Paint ran in 256K, though it was certainly better in 512K).

Well, yeah, DP did *run*, but it had problems with only 256K.  I got my brand
spanking new A1000 in Spring of '85.  Wow!  A *real* computer!  (I was a C64
owner up until that time).  Got everything hooked up and turned on so I could
play with DP.  I was using some of the fantasy brushes, and noticed that
the larger ones, most notably the knight on horseback, did not appear when
loaded!  I thought for sure something was wrong with my machine.  My friendly
dealer told me I needed the 256K expansion cartridge (for a mere $150 or so,
which I didn't really have at the time...)  Sure enough, that was the problem.
So, yes it was better with 512K.  I could see all the brushes!  :-)

>Dave Haynie Commodore-Amiga (Amiga 3000) "The Crew That Never Rests"
>   {uunet|pyramid|rutgers}!cbmvax!daveh      BIX: hazy
>	"Work like a horse, drink like a fish"	- Psychefunkapus

-----
  Shannon Lawson, Virginia Tech    || E-mail: lawsons@csgrad.cs.vt.edu
  "Knowledge is chimera, for beyond it ever lies other knowledge, and the
   incompleteness of what is known renders the knowing false." - S.R. Donaldson
 
Xref: sparky comp.sys.amiga.advocacy:21708 comp.sys.amiga.misc:12776
From: ata@hfsi.uucp (John Ata FSO)
Subject: Re: Eyecatching Titles, LTD.
Keywords: Life, Amigas, and Everything Else
Reply-To: ata@hfsi.UUCP (John Ata FSO)
Organization: HFSI, McLean VA.
Date: Sun, 16 Aug 1992 19:46:30 GMT

In article <1992Aug14.220057.8379@murdoch.acc.Virginia.EDU> kws1x@cyclops.micr.Virginia.EDU (Kenneth W. Smith) writes:
>
>
>
>     Fellow Netters and Amigoids,
>
>     Pandemonium is reigning in comp.sys.amiga.whining, er, uh, advocacy.
>  I've read this Amiga group (and the others) since the great Hydra effect
>some time ago, and now, Great Rome has passed its zenith.  Originally, it was
>a great idea to have all of the flame-fests centralized.  It has kept the
>other groups somewhat uncluttered.  But now, all the whining, the flaming,
>the yelling, the dark thoughts, they've taken on a life of their own, like
>Barker's "Son of Celluloid".
>     I'm not calling for advocacy's eradication.  It serves a positive
>function, IMHO.  But even those things positive need perspective, and that is
>difficult to achieve given the myriad of personalities and opinions that
>flood the nets every day!
>     Degeneration is a natural occurrence (singing: Entropy!  It's getting
>all over me!).  It's time to muck out the stalls and break out the Mr. Clean.
		.
		.
		.
>Ultimately, we die, kiddies.  Now THERE'S perspective.  :)
>     As exacting (and opinionated) as people tend to be in this group, I
>expect this article to be poked, prodded, ripped, drenched with octane and
>lit, and have some kind souls to point out to me where I've deviated from
>their prescribed paths of "normalcy".  All I can say is have at it and excuse
>the typos.
>     My Amiga is right for me.  If C= drops it tomorrow, it'll still last me
>an extra, EXtra, EXTRA long time.
>
>     K. W. Smith, Jr.
>     kws1x@cyclops.micr.Virginia.edu

I for one, applaud this well thought out article (irrespective of the fact
that I agree with it 100%) and certainly wish more people would take the
time to write such articles even if their opinions are 180 degrees reversed.
-- 
John G. Ata - Technical Consultant | Internet:     hfsi!ata@UUNET.UU.NET
HFS, Inc.		  VA20     |     UUCP:     uunet.uu.net!hfsi!ata
7900 Westpark Drive	 MS:601	   |    Voice:	(703) 827-6810
McLean, VA  22102	           |      FAX:	(703) 827-3729
From: TomK@cup.portal.com (Tom R Krotchko)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
Subject: Re: Lawnmowers VS Go-Carts Re: 21 Rules for c.s.a.a postings
Date: Thu, 20 Aug 92 21:12:11 PDT
Organization: The Portal System (TM)
  <1992Aug20.124149.423@csc.canterbury.ac.nz>

>The only thing I can think of to do it faster

Oops, you forgot CART/Indycars; probably significantly quicker
and faster than F1 cars because F1 banned turbos.

And probably IMSA GTP's are quicker.

(we won't mentioned drag racers...they're not race cars <g>)

Still, I think you could argue that an F1 race car is just an
incredibly complex go-cart (4 wheels, V10 lawnmower engine,
and stickers from french mineral water on the side; pretty
much like every go-kart I've ever seen).

...uh, damn. Thought this was alt.argue.F1.vs.Indycar...sorry
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
From: keith@actrix.gen.nz (Keith Stewart)
Subject: Re: Arthur C. Clarke, Vistapro, and NPR
Organization: Actrix Information Exchange
Date: Fri, 14 Aug 1992 05:10:56 GMT

In article <mykes.0c6y@amiga0.SF-Bay.ORG> mykes@amiga0.SF-Bay.ORG (Mike Schwartz) writes:
> In article <1992Aug10.193043.7520@newshost.unh.edu> ggg@kepler.unh.edu (Gregory G Greene) writes:
> > >I dunno why you'd post this in .advocady... c.s.a.graphics would be better.
> > >But at any rate, Virtual Reality Labs Inc.'s Vista Pro began life as
> > >an Amiga-only program called "Vista" (which is probably still
> > >marketed by them) but has grown tremendously in the last few years
> > >to its current incarnationas Vista Pro 2.0. It's also available for
> > >MS DOS machines but the Amiga version has far more features.
> >
> > 	Virtual Reality just sent me a product sheet about Vista Pro for
> >      MS-DOS.  I was thinking about getting it for my 486.  What does the
> >      Amiga version have that the MS-DOS version doesn't?
> >
> 
> Fewer colors or fatter pixels.

My 24 bit display on my Amiga doesn't doesn't have fewer colours.


> 
> > 							G.Greene
> >
> > >
> > >Harv
> 
> --
> Amiga programmer of: GRn, MailMinder, Budokan, Beyond Dark Castle, Dark Castle
> Sega Genesis programmer of: Dick Tracy and Marble Madness.
> Mike Schwartz  (ames!zorch!amiga0!mykes or mykes@amiga0.sf-bay.org)
> 1124 Fremont Ave.
> Los Altos, CA 94024
> 


Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
From: 10667547@eng2.eng.monash.edu.au (JIMMY FANG)
Subject: Re: HAM/SuperHAM is a joke ; was Re: Where is 1024*768?
Organization: Faculty of Engineering, Monash University 
Date: Thu, 13 Aug 1992 02:29:52 GMT

In article <1992Aug10.155434.7713@gbrmpa.gov.au> matt@gbrmpa.gov.au (Matt) writes:
>>There's more to comparing video modes than static resolutions and colours.
>>
>Try telling that to a top exective giving a slideshow presentation.

Why doesn't the **TOP** executive run SCALA 2.0, like they do at MICROSOFT 
CORP!

>Matt Crowd - Systems Support - GBRMPA

-Jif
Xref: sparky comp.sys.amiga.advocacy:21546 comp.sys.amiga.misc:12704
From: abs0@coos.dartmouth.edu (Kelvin Leung)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy,comp.sys.amiga.misc
Subject: Re: CDTV is dead.
Date: 16 Aug 92 15:26:07 GMT
Article-I.D.: dartvax.1992Aug16.152607.27157
Organization: Dartmouth College, Hanover, NH

barrett@iastate.edu (Marc N Barrett) writes:

>   Hardly.  Just look at the Mac groups for a model of how this would work.  
>For instance, a few weeks ago I questioned Commodore's commitment to 
>AmigaVision, saying that I felt that it had been abandoned.  Nobody came back
>with any solid information, just some general bullshit that Commodore was
>comitted to AmigaVision but with no details.  Compare this to just a week ago,
>when somebody on comp.sys.mac.hypercard questioned Apple/Claris' commitment to
>HyperCard.  A real Apple rep posted a message in return showing Claris' plans
>for HyperCard for the next three years, in detail.  That kind of support is
>all people want here, and there is nothing Orwellian about it.

No offense, Marc, but I experienced the opposite.  I post'd a note on
comp.sys.mac.hardware at one point, asking which Mac is capable of 
using SCSI-II devices.  Four weeks later, I have only gotten *1* answer.
Nonetheless, he wasn't sure himself.  He merely said something like
"I dont think the Quadra 700 can [...] maybe the 950"

Whereas, when I asked the net what's the difference between ZorroII and
ISA (a much more technical question), I got quite a few replies.  One
is, of course, from Dave.  He explained everything clearly... even down to
timing, etc.

I guess it's all depends on what you are looking on.  Pleaes don't just jump
into conclusion.  

Yours Sincerely,
Kelvin
e-mail: abs0@coos.dartmouth.edu
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
From: das9674@usl.edu (Stephenson Daniel A)
Subject: Re: Amiga 4000/Atari Falcon
Organization: University of Southwestern Louisiana
Date: Sun, 23 Aug 1992 01:52:49 GMT

In article <1992Aug22.225809.26006@hfsi.uucp> ata@hfsi.UUCP (John Ata FSO) writes:
>>3) Bridgboards are too slow, limited, and expensive to make it worthwhile
>>to run Windows/DOS programs, so you may count yourself lucky in that regard, if
>>you so choose.  Only for Amigan who need to bring work home, etc. does a BB
>>make sense.  This, for example, is the prime mover in the Apple superdrive.
>
>Slow - The Bridgboard is capable of emulating the target operating
>system at 100% speed.  That is, the 4.77 Mz 8088 bridgeboard will
>run at the exact speed of a 4.77 Mz PC, and a 20Mz 386SX
>bridgeboard will run at the same speed as a 20Mz 386SX clone.  If
>I run Windows on a 16 Mhz 386 clone (as I do at work), then the BB
>will clearly outperform the clone running DOs/Windows programs. 

Where can I buy a 386SX BB? Some people do not think a 20Mhz 386DX is fast enough.  I woul dthink it was fast enough for most things.  I was speaking of the
XT/AT BBs.

>Limited - In what way?  The bridgboard solution allows for complete
>ISA expansion including the adding on of VGA cards.

Yes, but how well can this be done? The 386SX BB, last I heard, cost comparable
to a full up 386SX clone.  Is it worthy compared to that?  Perhaps if desk
space is limited.  How many ISA ports does the BB have?  Oh, that's right, the
Amiga has some..right?

>Price - The retail price of the brideboard is a purely a marketing
>decision, and has nothing to do with the technical merits of its
>capabilities.  Do you have any inside information as to what the
>manufacturing costs are?

Look, I was just explaining why I thought BBs were generally Not Worth It.
It may be worthwhile, as I said, to people bringing workhome, or wanting
the use the extra software, or lacking desk space.  But the price is a major factor.
I do not know what te 286 BBs cost.  It would be hard to compare that to 
286s sold by Clone dealers since I haven't seen a 286 advertised in a long
time.  Wrt the 386SX BB, it is reputed to be quite expensive.  Perhaps in
reality it is merely what one would be worth, maybe $400.  I haven't
seen too many 386SXs advertised lately, but as past postings on the subject
have shown, a full 386SX/VGA/HD,etc can be quite cheap.  Not $400, but pretty
cheap.  Do you know how much the 386SX BBs cost?

>John G. Ata - Technical Consultant | Internet:     hfsi!ata@UUNET.UU.NET
--
das9674@usl.edu
" BERLIN WALL FALLS.  3 BORDER GUARDS LOSE JOBS.  CLINTON BLAMES BUSH! "
        -George Bush, '92 Republican nomination acceptance speech
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
From: das9674@usl.edu (Stephenson Daniel A)
Subject: Re: Sim Earth (was Re: Cheer Up)
Organization: University of Southwestern Louisiana
Date: Thu, 13 Aug 1992 03:05:52 GMT

In article <1992Aug13.024543.21867@maccs.dcss.mcmaster.ca> rickan@maccs.dcss.mcmaster.ca (Mark Rickan) writes:
>In article <1992Aug13.013616.2709@usl.edu> das9674@usl.edu (Stephenson Daniel A) writes:
>
>>>Bzzt. It is available, and having had the opportunity to compare the Amiga
>>>version to the PC edition, I would say that it is graphically superior and
>>>more fully integrates itself with the native OS. Boredom is a state of
>>>mind.
>
>>Curiously, do you know how it compared to SimEarth for Windows?
>
>The Amiga version has been written with AmigaDOS 2.0 in mind, so it has the
>same underlying GUI design principle. Maxis is one of a few companies that
>has utilized the high-resolution capabilities of the system and one which
>I'm willing to bet will develop applications using increased palettes and
>on-screen colours. Nicely done.

gain: do you know how it compaired to the WINDOWS version?  MS-Windows?

>
>Mark
>
>-- 
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------
> = Mark Rickan                         ...!uunet!utai!utgpu!maccs!rickan = 
> = DCSS, McMaster University               rickan@maccs.dcss.mcmaster.ca = 
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------- 


--
*Dan Stephenson   das9674@usl.edu 
*"It reminds me of something Cally said. 'He who trusts cannot be
*betrayed, only mistaken.' It was a saying of her people.... Cally is
*dead. So are most of her people." -Avon, from _Rescue_ (Blakes 7)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy,connect.audit