HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: alizard@pil
Newsgroups: alt.pagan
Subject: who was that scary guy?
Date: Sun, 22 Nov 92 21:31:53 PST

Re: Who was that scary guy?
 
> From: uphrrmk@Msu.oscs.montana.edu
> Newsgroups: alt.pagan
> Subject: Who was that scary guy?
> Date: Mon, 23 Nov 1992 00:33:18 GMT
>      I'm just getting paranoid, maybe because I'm still getting the hang of
> this Northwestern thang.  Just the other week, I read about a neo-nazi compou
> in Idaho, and how these jokers are seriously thinking about an Aryan Home-
> land.  They want Washington, Oregon, Idaho, Montana, and, I think, Wyoming.
> (Read it in the Billings Gazette, can probably get quotes if interested.)
>  
>                                La Mort.

Please get the quotes... I would be interested. And if you have info on local
fanatic fundie / anti-pagan local activity, PLEASE POST. If you run into
local anti-pagan harassment, please report it to 
amer@Blue.Kludge.COM 
Alliance of Magical and Earth Religions
(don't look for the 'k' in magic in this case, there isn't one)

And if the mail bounces, let ME know, it's a relay address on a system I'm
one of the sysadmins of...

blessings
                                                 A.Lizard
====== 93 ====== mea saurus, mea saurus, mea maxima saurus! ====== 93 ======
                  (slogan contributed by Jessica McGeary)
Mail to me should be sent to:       |  There are no fnords in this sig file.
alizard%tweekco%boo@PacBell.COM     |  autoreply to address I posted this
     ^^^ preferred site ^^^         |  from only if you want to wait a
PacBell.COM!boo!tweekco!alizard     |  solstice or two for my answer.
alizard@seer.mystic.com             |              Kallisti!
^^^use ONLY if all else fails       |  PGP2.0 public key available on request
From: marty@world.std.com (Marty M HaleEvans)
Newsgroups: alt.pagan
Subject: Re: the care & feedig f staves
Date: 20 Nov 92 01:48:05 GMT
Organization: Cicely Public Access UNIX, Cicely, AK

While we're at it, can we have a little basic seminar on wands? How 
would one best go about getting and/or making one, what steps should one
(I know that's a loaded word -- how about "would you") use? What are some
of the traditional woods and their attributes? Wands vs. staves: pros and
cons? And what, generally, do you use yours for (if you have one) and why
don't you use one (if you don't)?

Thanks 
(wow, a non-political discussion here about pagan practice!)

Marty


=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=
"Seems like there ought to be a way we could look each other in the eye
To see we're all in this together, and put all thoughts of victory aside.
Seems like there ought to be a way we could turn this fear into trust;
No matter what you say, there has to be a way --
Every living thing is counting on us."      

Marty Hale-Evans                                 M   @   *   O   %   8   U
89 Mass. Ave., Ste. 199, Boston, MA 02115       \|/ \|/ \|/ \|/ \|/ \|/ \|/
Newsgroups: alt.pagan
From: trev@well.sf.ca.us (Trevor Zion Bauknight)
Subject: Re: a potential problem for us all
Organization: Whole Earth 'Lectronic Link
Date: Tue, 24 Nov 1992 04:21:41 GMT

Perhaps it would be a good idea to keep tabs on anti-pagan groups, their
methods and activities through a cooperative effort of monitoring their
television and radio programming and literature within this group.  I
usually try to keep up with some of the more outrageous of these groups,
but it isn't easy.  While I have never been involved in any sort of
public pagan organization, let alone pagan politicical activism, I can
see that it is a good idea to "know the enemy," especially in light of
the recent (and widespread) trend on these programs to treat of the
subject of spiritual/cultural-warfare.  It's sometimes frightening to
consider the vast establishment of ignorance and bigotry within the
Christian church and the influence and high stature the groups hold
in society, even for a very private pagan person like me.  So.

If you as a group feel so inclined, try to do your part and monitor
local and national anti-pagan, anti-religious-freedom programming,
call their telephone numbers and get on their mailing lists and then
distribute your findings on alt.pagan.  I don't mind collecting 
material and re-distributing it in the form of a periodic posting...
Whatever.  My point is that this should be a cooperative, organized
effort, because it does potentially affect everyone who considers
themselves pagan.  I can't imagine a better use for this forum.
 
Trevor Bauknight         trev@well.sf.ca.us       Jes' Grew Carriers
 
                                                     +-----------+
                                                     | _> ###    |
                  Can I get an amen?                 |     |     |
                                                     +-----------+
From: K.M.Hetherington@bradford.ac.uk (KM HETHERINGTON)
Newsgroups: alt.pagan
Subject: Re: Hate-Related Grafitti (was Re: X-trian Right Wingers Strike Again)
Date: 16 Nov 92 16:00:57 GMT
Organization: University of Bradford, UK
Originator: 92129050@ccw302
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1 PL6]

Paul Ciszek (pciszek@nyx.cs.du.edu) wrote:
: Just to keep things in perspective...
: Recently someone went about the University of Colorado campus spraypainting
: "Clinton-Gore" on everything.  Vandalism, yes.  Hate grafitti, no.  If
: painting "Clinton-Gore" on a "Bush-Quayle" poster is not hate grafitti, then
: neither is writing "Jesus Saves" on a pagan display.

And neither is spraying swastikas on Jewish graves? 

Political squabbling is a very different thing from religious/racial hatred.

How would you like it if someone defaced your own religious material?

Feorag
From: cortese@skid.ps.uci.edu (Janis Maria Cortese)
Subject: Re: Women and Men Witches
Newsgroups: alt.pagan
Organization: University of California, Irvine
Date: 15 Nov 92 20:15:53 GMT

In article <1992Nov15.110844.13468@hpcvaac.cv.hp.com> billn@hpcvaac.cv.hp.com (bill nelson) writes:
>cortese@skid.ps.uci.edu (Janis Maria Cortese) writes:
>
>True, if the trait is recessive - then two copies are necessary. That is
>why there are so few color-blind women.
>
>However, if the trait is dominant, then only one copy is necessary. The
>trait can then be gained from either parent.

Yep.  But, one of the good things about lousy genes is that few are
dominant.  This is why men get more genetic problems than women.

Blessings,
Janis


Newsgroups: alt.pagan
From: aph016@cch.coventry.ac.uk (ozzy)
Subject: Re: rats
Organization: Coventry University, Coventry, UK.
Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1992 11:24:31 GMT

In article <BxvoLq.JuH@world.std.com> marty@world.std.com (Marty M HaleEvans) writes:
>Just a perhaps-interesting related tidbit I read once:
>
>Pet rats are particularly prone to cancer because so many of them are related
>to research strains that are *bred* to get cancer easily. So, it's not you nor
>is it coincidence that so many of your pets have succumbed to cancer.
>
>Too bad, really. :-( However, maybe you can feel happy that you gave these
>animals a happier life than they would have had in the short life we provided
>them with in the labs we destined them for.
>
>Marty
>

Is it Yale or Harvard (or some other high and mighty American instituion)
that has actually bred mice in order to develop cancer within 40 days.
I hazard a guess at the fact that this was done by some genetic tampering, and
maybe just a little radiation overdosing :(

Bb,

-ozzy
From: ccs@aber.ac.uk (Christopher "Jd" Samuel)
Newsgroups: alt.pagan
Subject: Re: Just an observation
Date: 20 Nov 92 19:18:25 GMT
Organization: University of Wales - Aberystwyth - Prifysgol Cymru

In article <5HN9TB3w164w@gatecom.UUCP>,
 falcore@gatecom.UUCP (Carolyn C. Doss L.V.T.) doodled:

>Greetings and Merry Meet !

Merry meet to you as well. :-)

>        I have been noticing quite a bit that people tend to associate
>The Craft with satanism (a christian religion) .....This upsets me a
>great deal I do not believe in Satan I am Pagan I am Wiccan I am a
>Witch! I do Magick and I harm none .........Boy it stinks to be trned on
>to something sooo wonderful and not be able to tell the whole world
>without being persecuted
>...

This is mainly down to people being miseducated about what the Craft,
and paganism in general, is.  I know that here in the UK the Pagan
Federation is doing it's best to counter this dis-information with
publicity packs sent to the media, schools, etc.. 

>        So am I on the wrong track here?
>        Am I aggrivating you with these posts?
>        I am learning the Craft and practicing Solitary.

No, No and fantastic! keep at it..

>These are what I see so far ...just want to see if it makes sense to others 

Of course it makes sense to others, otherwise this group would not have
much traffic at all!

>        Being Pagan sure can be lonely at times!

Agreed, but if you can find people who feel the same way to talk to
locally then you may change your mind! Most of all, do not be
disheartened by the false claims about the Craft and Paganism, to borrow
a phrase, these things are sent to try us..  :-)

>My the Lord and Lady guide your lives Journeys into the Shadowland and 
>beyond!
>
>         Blessings!

May what you wish for others return to yourself five-fold.
Bright blessings and hugs,

Chris

-- 
 Christopher Samuel, c/o Computer Unit, UCW Aberystwyth, Aberystwyth, WALES
  RFC: ccs@aber.ac.uk   UUCP: *!mcsun!uknet!aber!ccs   JNT: ccs@uk.ac.aber
          Deddf Iaith Newydd i Gymru | New Language Act for Wales
From: cortese@skid.ps.uci.edu (Janis Maria Cortese)
Subject: Re: Who are we kidding?
Newsgroups: alt.pagan
Organization: University of California, Irvine
Date: 20 Nov 92 01:25:59 GMT

In article <1992Nov19.062412.19164@netcom.com> barry@netcom.com (Kenn Barry) writes:
>
>	Hey, why don't you and Janis get sandwich boards saying
>"Repent! The End of the World is Nigh!" Growing very long beards would
>add to the total effect, but I guess Janis can skip that part.

No, that's okay, Kenn.  I can just borrow your moustache wax and braid
my pubic hair.

Janis the Snotty 

>One of the things that bothered me about your post was your complete
>lack of caring about Janice's feelings and concerns.  It might help
>your growth as a human being if you attempted some understanding 
>rather than slinging insults.  You might even try convincing her that
>she has nothing to worry about.  If you can do that - please convince
>me too.

Not a shock.  This isn't the first time Kenny and I have crossed swords.


Blessings,
Janis
From: falcore@gatecom.UUCP (Carolyn C. Doss L.V.T.)
Newsgroups: alt.pagan
Subject: Pagan Music
Date: Mon, 23 Nov 92 21:58:28 EST
Organization: Gateway Communication Inc.

Merry Meet !

        I just as turned on to a very good tape by another Wiccan I know, I 
thought I would share the title with you so others who may not have heard it 
would have a chance to .......it contains some very beautiful music created 
by Wiccans .....so  here is the info ....hope you all get the chance to 
listen to it .....

Title: Enchantress
Artist: Gypsy
Company: White Light Pentacles/Sacred Spirit Products (BMI)
         P.O. Box 8163
         Salem, Mass. 01971-8163


        I wish I could send you all a copy to enjoy but this is the best I 
can do  :-)!

 
                May the Lady and Lord guide your lifes journey to the Show 
land and Beyond!       Blessed Be!


                       Carolyn

//////////////////////////////\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\
\\\\      Falcore@gatecom.UUCP (Carolyn C. Doss L.V.T. )     ////
////                    I Love My Critters !!                \\\\
\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\///////////////////////////////////
Newsgroups: alt.pagan
From: pciszek@nyx.cs.du.edu (Paul Ciszek)
Subject: Re: burnt at the stake !
Organization: University of Denver, Dept. of Math & Comp. Sci.
Distribution: alt
Date: Tue, 17 Nov 92 06:42:36 GMT

"deron douglas" <deron.douglas@canrem.com> writes:

>A asked her why and all she could say was "that's NOT a religion", I was
>ready to throw some bad "shit" her way but regained my senses.  I tried
>to calmly explain that "The Old Religion" has been around for a very long
>time and is older than Christianity and Islam (she's Muslim)... she just
>walked away.....

THE Old Religion?  Which one?

I have asked this question many times, and have yet to receive a straight
answer:
         Which pre-twentieth-century culture practiced Wicca?

This is a serious question.  I am somewhat familiar with Greek, Roman,
Celtic, and Germanic folklore (I'm looking for good sources on Slavic and
Finnish folklore, BTW) and have yet to see anything that remotely resembles
Wicca or modern paganism.

Newsgroups: alt.pagan
From: radzy@ICSI.Berkeley.EDU (T. O. Radzykewycz)
Subject: Re: Women and Men Witches
Organization: International Computer Science Institute, Berkeley, CA, U.S.A.
Date: Sat, 21 Nov 1992 07:10:35 GMT

holzman@fnalno.fnal.gov (Daniel B. Holzman) writes:
>If it is a set of values, not a gender, being valued over the other, why 
>enshrine either gender in the name of the system and not derscribe the values?
>
>How about calling it Omnifocal?

cortese@skid.ps.uci.edu (Janis Maria Cortese) writes:
> Because women have been so shit on for so long and done nothing about
> it through swallowing all the drek ...  that it is necessary
> to weigh down a little harder on our side. ....  You have to
> smack them over the head with alternative possiblities.

Janis -- I have a *lot* of respect for you, and I really appreciate
when you try to give people a jolt, to get them thinking.  But I
just can't sit here and read this without wondering if you *realize*
that when you talk about smacking people over the head, you're really
describing how much *YOU* desire power-over!

Please, Janis, think about it.  Try to understand yourself.

Bear Blessings!

		-- radzy

------------------------------------------------------------
					|  An it harm none,
	T. O. Radzykewycz	     	|  do as ye will.
	The Incredible Radical Cabbage	|
					|  "Just pray for a
	radzy@cogsci.berkeley.edu       |  tough hide and a
	        			|  tender heart."
	        			|    -- Ruth Graham
------------------------------------------------------------
Tribal Mother was old, and lay ill on a bed of moss and
fern.   Her hair was long and grey.   Her face was very
wrinkled.    Tamura'nun-pa thought:   How beautiful you
are, Mother, so old and wise.
Newsgroups: alt.pagan,talk.religion.misc
From: arromdee@jyusenkyou.cs.jhu.edu (Ken Arromdee)
Subject: Re: Prove That Kids are Precious Gifts From God. (Was: Re: ra-ising c-hildren)
Organization: Johns Hopkins University CS Dept.
Date: Sun, 22 Nov 1992 21:33:04 GMT

In article <thurlow.722464088@convex.convex.com> thurlow@convex.com (Robert Thurlow) writes:
>>I repeat and add, before Lubosh can say that kids are precious
>>gifts from God, he has to prove God exists and that God says that kids are 
>>precious gifts from HIM/HER in a scientifically verifiable way.
>Why?  Who's the anal-retentive person who's going to insist on proving
>something like that in a "scientifically verifiable way"?  And what's
>going to happen to him if he doesn't?
>You need to learn that there are many things you will come to believe
>as truth which you won't have the time/knowledge/resources to _prove_
>to someone who hasn't been down your road.  Some truths aren't even
>provable.

You're missing something here.

"children are precious" and "children are precious gifts from God" are not the
same thing.  Despite some of the nitpicking I've seen, the real dispute is over
the place where those two claims differ.

"children are precious" doesn't need to be proven.  As you noted, it would be
ridiculous to ask for any sort of verifiable proof of such a thing.

"children are precious gifts from God" has an extra clause tacked on the end.
You're trying to fudge around having to prove that extra part by appealing to
the lack of a need to prove the first part.
--
"the bogosity in a field equals the bogosity imported from related areas, plus
the bogosity generated internally, minus the bogosity expelled or otherwise
disposed of."  -- K. Eric Drexler

Ken Arromdee (arromdee@jyusenkyou.cs.jhu.edu, arromdee@jhunix.hcf.jhu.edu)
Newsgroups: alt.pagan
From: marty@world.std.com (Marty M HaleEvans)
Subject: Re: the US elections...
Organization: Cicely Public Access UNIX, Cicely, AK
Date: Tue, 17 Nov 1992 20:35:23 GMT


What do some of you think of the hand-held stun weapons that are coming onto
the market? These are relatively inexpensive (~$100), easy to use, easy to
carry, legal, and produce no lasting harm. Just enough neural disruption to
allow one to escape. There was some writing about them in the newest _MONDO
2000_. My husband and I have been talking about them as a non-violent option
to the self-defense problem. The main problem is that you do have to touch 
the assailant with the weapon, so you have to let him/her get close. Also, 
like any weapon, it can be taken away and used on you. However, that's a 
possibility with any weapon, and I'd rather have a stunner go off accidentally
in struggle or even used on me than a gun or knife.

Any thoughts?

Marty


=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=
"Seems like there ought to be a way we could look each other in the eye
To see we're all in this together, and put all thoughts of victory aside.
Seems like there ought to be a way we could turn this fear into trust;
No matter what you say, there has to be a way --
Every living thing is counting on us."      

Marty Hale-Evans                                 M   @   *   O   %   8   U
89 Mass. Ave., Ste. 199, Boston, MA 02115       \|/ \|/ \|/ \|/ \|/ \|/ \|/
From: c1741@moncol.monmouth.edu (MICHAEL CARSON)
Newsgroups: alt.pagan
Subject: fire arms (was Re: a few words about election returns)
Date: 18 Nov 92 17:33:36 GMT
Organization: Monmouth College, W. Long Branch, N.J.  07764

In article <gate.sN94TB1w165w@pil.UUCP> alizard@pil writes:
>
>Without a Federal Firearms License, it is illegal to possess a fully automatic
>weapon. The license will cost you several hundred dollars. Uzis are a fully
>automatic weapon. 

	Or semi-auto, depending.  Full-auto Uzis are illegally brought in and
used by drug dealers and the like.  Semi-auto versions, of which there are
several, are legally brought in to this coutry for much the same reason as
any other firearm.  Neither of these is an "assault rifle" which is a selective
fire weapon of limited range, firing a cut-down rifle cartridge, frequently
with a rebated case head.  The full-auto variant is a "sub-machine gun" which
fires a pistol cartridge and which has selective fire capabilities.  The
semi-auto variant would, I suppose technically be a pistol.

>A military assault weapon is "selective fire". It can be switched into
>semiauto, burst (e.g. 3 round), and full auto modes. However, a civilian
>"assault weapon" is the same without a selective fire switch. Magazines
>vary in size.

	The modes available depend strictly on the weapon.  I am not aware of
any that possess both 3-round burst and full-auto.  The M-16A1 has "safe"
"semi" and "full".  The A2 model substitutes "burst" for full auto.  I have
been enformed by a Special Forces member that the full-auto version of the AK47
only has "safe" and "full".

>
>A civilian semi-automatic deer hunting rifle is a semi-automatic weapon.
>One shot at a time. Just like a civilian "assault weapon". The differences
>are that the factory magazines are smaller (look through some mail order
>catalogs for larger... or much larger ones) and the stock is carved wood or
>plastic made to look like carved wood. And the caliber is heavier, meaning
>it punches bigger holes at longer ranges.

	Much of the distinction seems to be over which weapons look "mean".
Unable to say this in te laws, the lawmakers are including hunting rifles on
their hit lists. :'(

>As for why I prefer semi-automatics, there's always the chance of missing on
>the first shot. A semi-auto means a second chance, maybe.

	And of finishing a wounded animal, rather than letting it suffer.
This may seem to be a rationalization, but not causing pain is important to
me.  Which, despite being pro-gun, is why if I ever when hunting, my weapon of
choice would be a camera.

|o|\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/|o|
|o| Of Course I speak  |      michael carson       | Carpe Diem, Man.        |o|
|o|  only for myself.  | c1741@moncol.monmouth.edu | Carpe Vitam, too.       |o|
|o| Would YOU let me   +---------------------------+-------------------------|o|
|o|  speak for you?!?  |      All flames to: nobody@moncol.monmouth.edu      |o|
|o|\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/|o|
Newsgroups: alt.pagan
From: holzman@fnalno.fnal.gov (Daniel B. Holzman)
Subject: Re: Women and Men Witches
Organization: Fermi National Accelerator Lab
Date: Tue, 24 Nov 1992 02:42:22 GMT
X-Posted-From: fnalno.fnal.gov
NNTP-Posting-Host: sol.ctr.columbia.edu

In article <1992Nov20.232518.45003@kuhub.cc.ukans.edu>, 
kumagic@kuhub.cc.ukans.edu (Stephen R. Figgins) writes:
> She suggests the word Gylanic better describes a culture of 
> partnership.

Gylanic works for me.  Perhaps we have found a term we can agree on?

-- 
Daniel B. Holzman                    | Eight Words the Witch's Rede Fufill:
HOLZMAN@FNAL.BITNET                  | An It Harm None, Do What You Will
HOLZMAN@FNALC.FNAL.GOV.INTERNET      |
                                     | All Acts of Love and Pleasure are
Love doesn't subtract,               | Her Rituals
   it multiplies    - Heinlein       |
                                     | Speak the Word.
Disclaimer:  Fermilab's far too large to have an opinion, let alone mine.
From: dhardin@bbn.com (Dawn Hardin)
Newsgroups: alt.pagan
Subject: Re: Care & Feeding of Staves
Date: 16 Nov 1992 18:44:44 GMT
NNTP-Posting-Host: bbn.com

In article <1e527jINN917@usenet.INS.CWRU.Edu>, jmm25@po.CWRU.Edu (Jessica M. Mcgeary) writes:
> 
> What we were wondering is, what kind of oils do you
> recommend using on staves besides linseed oil? Anything special we should
> do to them? 

I'm not sure if this would work as well on a large-scale project, but it
worked great on the wands I've made.  I rubbed oil of patchouli on my oak
wand and carnation essential oil on my hawthorne wand.  It polished them
beautifully and the smell lasted for months.  I've redone them several
times now.  Both wands are 2-3 years old now, so it looks like essential
oil doesn't hurt the wood.  And the smells have really sunk down in by
now.

(Paganism is the religion that SMELLS best.)

Dawn

Joseph Campbell gave me hope and now I have been saved.
"Folk Song" by Bongwater
Newsgroups: alt.pagan
From: andy@SAIL.Stanford.EDU (Andy Freeman)
Subject: Re: the US elections...
Organization: Computer Science Department,  Stanford University.
Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1992 02:52:48 GMT

In article <Bxvnuz.IG1@world.std.com> marty@world.std.com (Marty M HaleEvans) writes:
>What do some of you think of the hand-held stun weapons that are coming onto
>the market?

They're a bad joke.

>These are relatively inexpensive (~$100), easy to use, easy to
>carry, legal, and produce no lasting harm. Just enough neural disruption to
>allow one to escape.

No, they don't.  They're not as infuriating as mace (which really
pisses people off), but they're as ineffective.  There's a
self-defense school that demonstrates that by using a zap from a
stun-gun as the signal to initiate an exercise.  (They're good for
that, at least until the participants get used to them.)

-andy
--
UUCP:    {arpa gateways, sun, decwrl, uunet, rutgers}!cs.stanford.edu!andy
ARPA:    andy@cs.stanford.edu