From: fester@island.COM (Mike Fester)
Subject: Re: "New fingerprint Procedure"
Organization: /usr/local/rn/organization
Date: Sun, 5 Apr 1992 20:07:17 GMT

In article <HARKCOM.92Apr2135129@spinach.pa.yokogawa.co.jp> harkcom@spinach.pa.yokogawa.co.jp (Alton Harkcom) writes:
>In article <SMITTIE.92Mar29184822@beach.csulb.edu> smittie@beach.csulb.edu
>   (Smittie) writes:
>
> =}What I find foolish is this automatic association between finger printing
> =}and criminal that westerners like to talk about as the reason for resisting
> =}the finger printing process.
>
>   I used to make the same automatic association between fingerprints
>and criminals.  Now that I don't I still don't think it foolish
>because I took the time to understand it.  For most people (civilians),
>the only exposure to fingerprinting is in relation to criminals.  Pavlov
>showed us what this can do.  It is interesting that the same reflex action
>exists in Japan...

Pavlov showed a specific hormonal response in dogs to a stimulus repeated
several times each day for a period of time. I'm not aware of his findings 
regarding fingerprinting. If you used to associate finger-printing with
criminal activity, don't expect much sympathy from those of us who cannot
make such acrobatic leaps in logic (fingerprint = criminal).

And as has been pointed out several times, most people with driver's licenses
and passports have been finger-printed, yet I doubt that they consider
themselves (or are considered by others) to be criminals.

>   However, I do not deny that there is some substance to the stance that
>the association with criminals and alien registration exists.  It is a

I do deny this. I have NEVER heard any Japanese voice this, and you are the
only westerner I have heard voice this opinion.

>reflex action that sometimes surfaces in even the best meaning person.
>But I prefer to believe that those who make such associations are
>slaves to their reflexes and are at fault.

Could you clear this up for me? You claim that there IS some association 
between alien reg and criminals. You then claim that people people who
believe there is such an association are slaves to their reflexes and are
to blame. Are you therefore claiming that this whole misunderstanding is 
your own fault?

> =}Here in the US you are finger printed for a driver's license
>
>   Not in all states...

But in most. Certainly in the most populous. And you ARE fingerprinted for
a passport (or at least I was).

> =}if/when you join the military
>
>   Does this support or rebut your argument?  :)  Some people feel that
>those in the military are no better than criminals...

Personally, I have never met a military man/woman with a criminal record. I
am certain they exist, however, I certainly would not brand then all as
criminals.

> =}and for a variety of other reasons.
>
>   Like when a crime has been committed or you have been accused of a
>crime...

Or when you get a driver's license, passport, green card, are born ...

> =}Some people take issue with
> =}the fact that while foreigners staying in Japan long enough to need an
> =}alien registration card are finger printed, Japanese citizens are not.
>
>   Since the reason usually given for the fingerprinting is for
>identification purposes then it sounds like a valid argument to me...

So why don't you decry the finger-printing procedure in the US? You have the
added advantage of being able to vote for someone who promises to do away
with it.

> =}one could point
> =}to this as an example of Japan's unfair treatment of non-Japanese. Those
> =}who think that way are welcome to their opinion.  I don't agree with it.
>
>   Even if the purpose for the fingerprints was for criminal investigations
>you wouldn't think that it was discrimination against foreigners?

Which fingerprints are you talking about here? The ID card is for immigrants/
long term visitors. I wasn't aware that you had to submit yourself to each
and every criminal investigation in Japan just because they took your
fingerprint.

Mike
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