HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: peter@global.hacktic.nl (Peter Busser)
Newsgroups: comp.unix.questions
Subject: Re: IS UNIX DEAD?
Date: Thu, 12 Nov 1992 13:28:29 GMT
Organization: Global Village 1

>left cursor right and insert text simply. This is a drawback with unix : if
>you don't know how to use vi or emacs you cant edit your command line.

Hmm, I always use bash and in emacs mode it understands cursor keys...

>>Most DOS editors have a help key, they often show which commands are availlable
>>on the screen, have mouse support, pull-down menus or WordStar commands.
>Mouse support is certainly tricky under unix if you are connected with a
>vt100 and a modem :-)

But not for a graphical screen.

>>And emacs is easier to learn than vi? <grin> Besides that, the programs you
>>mention are editors. A typical programmer's tool. What about a decent word
>>processor? (Oh please, inform me about the 'user friendliness' of troff and
>>(La)TeX... :)

>I don't see your point here. Wordperfect and Microsoft word exist under unix,
>amongst other.

For WHICH UNIX?

>>Now you're talking. Let's face it, most users know DOS and not UNIX.
>I wonder what you understand by the word "know". I agree that there are more
>people who use programs on ms/dos machines that there are people who use
>programs on  unix machines. But I wouldnt say that they have a knowledge of
>ms/dos. 

They for instance know to type 'dir' and what it does.

>>Without changing Makefiles??? Gee!
>Major unixes have an option in many makefiles (there is always a make sco or
>make sysv or make bsd).

Most programs I've seen don't have a 'make sco'. Most have a 'make sysv' or
'make bsd', but unfortunately SysV isn't always SysV and BSD isn't always BSD.
Compare for instance the wait3() function on a Sun and on other BSD systems...

>>Yep, but the problem is that even on the same processor it's not always
>>possible to exchange executables. Ever tried to run BSD/386 executables under
>>System V.4?
>Ever tried to run a windows programm under dos?

Ever tried to run X binaries without running X? I just did (xterm): Error:
can't open Display. Anyway, I can run a DOS executable under DR DOS, which is
a DOS clone. Many UNIXes don't allow this.

>and even sometimes no backups). I think we go back to your airplane example :
>under dos there is less to administer but the user is in charge of the whole
>machine, under unix the user doesnt have the hassle to administrate and can
>enjoy his programs fully.

We can have a UNIX which has UUCP, TCP/IP and such features disabled (note: NOT
removed). If someone wants to use those features, (s)he has to learn the
difficult part of using UNIX. But (s)he doesn't need to do that right from the
beginning.

Newsgroups: comp.unix.questions
From: martin@datacomm.ucc.okstate.edu (Martin McCormick)
Subject: adjtime
Organization: Oklahoma State University, Stillwater, OK
Date: Thu, 12 Nov 1992 21:06:18 GMT


I have determined that our Sun sparc's real-time clock gains about a minute
every three months.  Is the adjtime call appropriate to use to slow down
the system clock to compensate for this error?  When reading the manual
entry on it, I was a little confused as to whether this was meant for only
synchronizing other system's clocks to a master time server or if it did that
in addition to introducing a correction factor to the host system clock.
I would like to hear from anybody who has actually used it.
	There are various hardware solutions to synchronizing clocks, but
I feel that our system would be pretty accurate, for our needs, if a correction
factor could constantly be in effect to nudge the system in to counting time
a little more slowly.  Any help such as whether or not this does what I think
it does, or examples of what the C code to call it looks like would be
appreciated.
Newsgroups: comp.unix.questions
From: papresco@napier.uwaterloo.ca (Paul Prescod)
Subject: Re: IS UNIX DEAD? (long)
Organization: University of Waterloo
Date: Wed, 11 Nov 1992 21:46:05 GMT

> BTW, I do think you all are overestimating the power of the "average
>user" when it comes to deciding the course of the PC world. The "average
>user" couldn't afford to buy a machine powerful enough to run GUIs when
>they first came out, but look where we went... Yeah, Joe Stupid may be a
>large part of it, but he ain't the only thing determining what the next
>operating system will be. (We all gotta keep in mind that not every
>"average user" is stupid to the core, as several of the "common user
>advocates" have suggested.)

Overestimating the power of the "average user?"  Underestimating his/her
intelligence?  Not me!

Look at the most popular operating system today: DOS.  A 1970s cpm rehash
with a 640k memory limit.  Guis took off when Joe Average could afford
to buy a gui based computer.  It's not that they are stupid, just poorly
informed.  Many, many people don't know there are opearting systems
other then DOS.  Those that do, usually crinkle their noses if you tell
them about Unix.  "I heard that has a brutal learning curve."

In other words, while "average users" are smart, they are not computer
literate, they don't know a good OS from a bad one, and they will not
use something with a reputation for user-unfriendliness.
From: peter@global.hacktic.nl (Peter Busser)
Newsgroups: comp.unix.questions
Subject: Re: IS UNIX DEAD? (long)
Date: Wed, 11 Nov 1992 22:39:46 GMT
Organization: Global Village 1

sherman@unx.sas.com (Chris Sherman) writes:

>In <1992Nov6.113324.6348@global.hacktic.nl> peter@global.hacktic.nl (Peter Busser) writes:


>>user interfaces. With NT or OS/2 you only need to learn only *1* user
>>interface.

>Suppose you don't like it...

Then you're stuck with it. But then at least you're stuck consistently... :-)
From: tpm@ecs (TP Monks)
Newsgroups: comp.unix.questions
Subject: Re: How to cd "a b c d"
Keywords: help
Date: 9 Nov 92 13:50:23 GMT

qian@kappa.uleth.ca (Howard Chien) writes:


>Hi! I have a simple question: How can you cd a directory with a name such as

>a b c d (1 directory)?

>Thanks for the help.

>howard,


ooooohhhhh! you're going to get flamed for that...

try:

cd 'a b c d'


--
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Tim Monks                                Vision, Speech and Signal Processing
tpm@ecs.soton.ac.uk                                    Southampton University
Tel: +44 (703) 592774                                   Fax: +44 (703) 592895
From: olsenc@carson.u.washington.edu (Clint Olsen)
Newsgroups: comp.unix.questions
Subject: Powerful command line (UNIX dead?)
Date: 12 Nov 92 23:06:26 GMT
Organization: University of Washington, Seattle


I remember reading about someone saying what UNIX needs to survive in
the next decade.

The one about a "more powerful command-line" was probably an unqualified
statement.

First, what is meant by it?  What's powerful?  I particularly find the UNIX
prompt an excellent place to get my work done.  In fact, one of the
biggest complaints about UNIX is that the command-line is TOO powerful.

A user can mistakenly wipe out their entire directory in one line!  A
user can clobber their files if they misuse shell metacharacters like
"*" when using an "mv" command.

For commands which are extremely long, command-line editing provided by
"ksh" or "bash" makes substitutions and corrections a snap.

With UNIX, I can move entire filesystems with a command line.  I can have
mountable file systems and I can access files over the network.  All of these
features I find extremely powerful and easy to use.  Furthermore, they
don't require 40 disk installations of Novell!  Networking is built in!

Software development is great.  I have access to great compilers and debuggers
from the Free Software Foundation.  I don't know about you, but I'd
prefer NOT to reboot my machine everytime I accessed guarded memory.  With
UNIX, you get a core dump and you can step through a debugger to see what
happened.  Isn't a protected system great?

Obviously, there are problems with UNIX.  For one, the hardware requirements
are pretty high.  Furthermore, it's not easy to learn.  Commands are 
abbreviated because when it was invented, people were typing on mechanical
terminals that required 5lbs. of pressure for key presses (exaggeration)!

Without turing this into a flame-fest, before you get on the net and flame 
UNIX, why don't you do your homework first.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Clint Olsen 
olsenc@u.washington.edu
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Newsgroups: comp.unix.questions
From: papresco@napier.uwaterloo.ca (Paul Prescod)
Subject: Re: IS UNIX DEAD? 
Organization: University of Waterloo
Date: Wed, 11 Nov 1992 21:27:33 GMT

>Yes, but when will it be available ? Solaris 2.0 will be ready by then.

I hope so, and I hope it's everything I dream it will be.  But if it is,
it won't be the unix that some people here know and love.  It may have some
ease-of-use enhancements.  It will probably be graphical.  It may "pander
to the lowest common denominator."  I'm crossing my fingers.

>If Joe User prefers a comercial program why not go with SCO or NeXTstep.
>
Because a NeXT costs >$5000.00 (for greyscale) and a PC with scos almost
as much.  SCO costs more then many systems for sale today.
From: clewis@ferret.ocunix.on.ca (Chris Lewis)
Newsgroups: comp.unix.questions
Subject: Re: Cancelled articles
Date: 7 Nov 92 05:42:57 GMT
Organization: Elegant Communications Inc., Ottawa, Canada

In article <2AFA26BB.26077@news.service.uci.edu> ruman@meroot.eng.uci.edu (ruman) writes:
>   I would like to know if it is possible to read a cancelled article
>without sending a control mesg cancelling the cancel. I read news via
>NNTP. I tried telnet to the NNTP port to retrieve the cancelled
>article, but am unable to get it. ("article number invalid", was the
>the message i believe). 

Sorry, not possible.  Once the cancel for the original article
arrives, the original article is removed completely.  There is
no article to retrieve.  Cancelling the cancel just removes the
article that did the cancel, so you couldn't retrieve it either.

"cancel" means destroy the article to be cancelled.  Not
"prevent the newsreader showing it to the user"..
-- 
Chris Lewis; clewis@ferret.ocunix.on.ca; Phone: Canada 613 832-0541
Psroff 3.0 info: psroff-request@ferret.ocunix.on.ca
Ferret list: ferret-request@ferret.ocunix.on.ca
From: lwall@netlabs.com (Larry Wall)
Newsgroups: comp.unix.questions
Subject: Re: Erasing words with less than n letters
Date: 5 Nov 92 18:31:33 GMT
Organization: NetLabs, Inc.

In article <1992Nov5.011854.25944@umbc3.umbc.edu> rouben@math9.math.umbc.edu (Rouben Rostamian) writes:
: In article <1992Nov4.180618.9183@inesc.pt> jota@iguana.inesc.pt writes:
: >	Is there a way of erasing the words with less than n letters
: >using unix ? sed ? awk ? The words (in a dictionary) are sorted and
: >one per line.
: 
: To print input lines containing n or more characters:
: 
: awk 'length($0) >= n { print }'

Here it is in sed (using 9 for our "n" to avoid confusion with -n):

    sed -n '/.\{9\}/p'

Of course, maybe you prefer grep:

     grep '.\{9\}'

Or nroff:

    #!/bin/sh

    (
	cat <<-'END'
	    .de TR
	    'di
	    .pl 1000v
	    .if \\n(dl/24>=9 .aa
	    .ST
	    ..
	    .de ST
	    .pl 1n
	    'di aa
	    .nr .i 0
	    .it 1 TR
	    ..
	    .nf
	    .ST
	    END
	cat ${1-"$@"}
    ) | nroff

Larry Wall
lwall@netlabs.com
Newsgroups: comp.unix.questions
From: ebo@nyx.cs.du.edu (es bo)
Subject: crypt a file
X-Disclaimer: Nyx is a public access Unix system run by the University
	of Denver for the Denver community.  The University has neither
	control over nor responsibility for the opinions of users.
Organization: Nyx, Public Access Unix at U. of Denver Math/CS dept.
Date: Thu, 12 Nov 92 19:22:53 GMT


hi, there,
In our machine, we have not the crypt program, and if I want to
do some cryptage of my file, how can I do it? how I read it after?
I have not normal access to this group, so your reply to me is 
prefered. Thankx.
From: jmd6@unix.brighton.ac.uk (Durrant;f110or89;[05306)
Newsgroups: comp.unix.questions
Subject: Info wanted on UNIX std?
Date: 13 Nov 92 11:55:34 GMT
Organization: University of Brighton, UK


I am currently doing some research for a disertation for the final
year of my degree in computer science. I have chosen to do the
research on unix and its standadisation.

I therefore interested if any one has any interesting articles on
unix stadadisation on SVR4 or OSF/1 or perhaps other standards. I
am finding that articles are hard and slow to get hold of through
interlibrary loans so any electronic articles you can send me 
would be of use.

I'm also intresting in peoples views of what might happen to unix in
the next few years. So please send me any strong view you have. 

My reseach has covered some intresting articles such as 
IS UNIX DEAD from Byte
THE CASE AGAINST UNIX STANDARDS from UKUUG comference
and is now heading in the direction of the following questions:

Will open systems save unix?

Has POSIX compatibility on proprietry systems (eg OPEN VMS) killed
unix?

Is SVR4 the new unix standard?

Will any one use OSF/1?

Will Windows NT replace UNIX?

Also does any one know if open systems has taken unix SVR4 to be
its standard, and if any other POSIX standards besides 1003.1 have
become ISO standards.


Thanks for you help

Jon Durrant (jmd6@uk.ac.bton.unix) JANET address
From: zzassgl@uts.mcc.ac.uk (Geoff Lane)
Newsgroups: comp.unix.questions
Subject: Re: net.views - mainframe programmers in an open systems world
Date: 4 Nov 92 08:31:44 GMT
Organization: Manchester Computing Centre, Manchester, England, M13 9PL.

In article <e1Uo03mWb7nw00@amdahl.uts.amdahl.com> ansell@uts.amdahl.com (Steven Ansell) writes:
>wagner@utoday.com (Mitch Wagner) writes:
>
>
>>           Is it possible to put the skills of mainframe programmers
>>           to use in open environments? If so, how?
>> 
>
>Please define what is meant by a "mainframe programmer".  As someone who 
>works on Amdahl's UTS Operating System I program on a mainframe *and* in
>an open environment!
>
>------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>| Amdahl Corporation                    |      -Steve Ansell                 |
>| 1250 East Arques Ave (M/S 316)        |       ansell@uts.amdahl.com        |
>| P.O. Box 3470                        	|      	!amdahl!ansell               |
>| Sunnyvale, CA 94088-3470              |       (408) 992-3110               |
>|                          [ I speak for myself only ]                       |
>------------------------------------------------------------------------------




Ditto ... What a stupid question!

But what would you expect from a comic which changes it's name just to
follow the current fashionable vapourware hyped by Microsoft :-)

















-- 
Geoff. Lane. | Internet: zzassgl@uts.mcc.ac.uk | Janet: zzassgl@uk.ac.mcc.uts
UTS Sys Admin,  Manchester Computing Centre,  Oxford Rd,  Manchester, M13 9PL
Any TV light entertainment show with more writers than performers will be crap.
Newsgroups: comp.unix.questions
From: rahardj@ccu.umanitoba.ca (Budi Rahardjo)
Subject: Re: IS UNIX DEAD?
Organization: University of Manitoba, Winnipeg, Canada
Date: Sun, 8 Nov 1992 11:24:54 GMT

peter@global.hacktic.nl (Peter Busser) writes:

>pfcouvar@unix.amherst.edu (Peter F. Couvares) writes:

>>	Before you try to convince people of unix's flaws, I suggest you
>>first make sure you have a clue what you're talking about.

>Where can I get toll-free support for Linux?

Where can I get NT, now ? 

-- budi
-- 
Budi Rahardjo <Budi_Rahardjo@UManitoba.Ca>
Unix Support - Computer Services - University of Manitoba
Newsgroups: comp.unix.questions
From: dennis@solar.csie.ntu.edu.tw (Dennis Cheng-Zen Yang)
Subject: Summary 2 :benchmark for file systems !
Organization: Computer System Lab, NTU, Taiwan
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1 PL6]
Date: Mon, 9 Nov 1992 02:55:59 GMT


There are two additional replies. Thanks to :
schreib@fzi.de (Hartmut Schreibe) and
tbray@watsol.uwaterloo.ca (Tim Bray)

----------------------------------------------------------------------
schreib@fzi.de  (Hartmut Schreibe) writes :

Ni hao!

There IS! The name is nfsstone but I don't know, where to find sources for it,
so if you get more answers, please forward them to me.

Yours sincerely,

  Hartmut
----------------------------------------------------------------------
tbray@watsol.uwaterloo.ca (Tim Bray) writes :

Here is a very general purpose file-system benchmark named 'Bonnie', 
which has been widely used around the Unix community to perform a
variety of filesystem measurements.
----------------------------------------------
 .....
 [program deleted, you can email to tim for request]
 .....

Thanks !

--
Dennis Cheng-Zen Yang                    Inter: dennis@solar.csie.ntu.edu.tw
Computer System Lab.                     Tel  : 886-2-3630231 ext 3236 or 3016
Dep. of Computer Sci. and Info. Eng.        ___  ___      ,   __  .  
National Taiwan University                 /    <__      /    __> |__
				          <___  ___>    <___ <__| |__>     
Newsgroups: comp.unix.questions,comp.unix.shell
From: lie6@ellis.uchicago.edu (Jonathan Lieberman)
Subject: Thank you to everyone who responded.
Reply-To: lie6@midway.uchicago.edu
Organization: University of Chicago Computing Organizations
Date: Fri, 6 Nov 1992 07:19:23 GMT

THANKS! Do to the overwhelming response 31 messages in 24 hours I have
canceled the message, but thanks to all who helped.

Summary:
head -50 text.file.txt 
cats the first fifty lines.
-- 
____________________________________________________________________________
                            | People demand freedom of speech to make up 
Jonathan Lieberman          | for the freedom of thought which they avoid.
lie6@midway.uchicago.edu    |                        -Kierkegaard
Newsgroups: comp.unix.questions
From: bill@Celestial.COM (Bill Campbell)
Subject: Re: IS UNIX DEAD?
Organization: Celestial Software, Mercer Island, WA
Date: Fri, 06 Nov 1992 07:17:31 GMT

In <1382@netxcom.netx.com> jwc@netx.com (Jeffrey W. Comer) writes:

:Having worked my way up the ranks from MVS to VM and then DOS, with side
:trips into VAX and NOS, and finally *NIX, I must say UNIX beats them all
:hands down. No other OS has the flexibilty and power the others do. I'll
:take three boxes running UNIX over a whole roomfull of IBM mainframes any
:day. I am convinced JCL was the result of a freshman prank gone awry. And
:IEFBR14? Come on, this must be somebody's idea of a joke!

No joke!  IBM's software was all designed to sell more hardware.
Every time a job fails because of bad JCL, it's more computer
time (hardware sales) for IBM.  I remember how pissed everyone
was when I was at Bendix Radio and our G-20 was being replaced by
two 360/50s.  A FORTRAN job that would take less than a minute on
the G-20 would take 25 minutes on the IBM.  The FORTRAN
equivalent of a 'Hello World' program would require 50 cards of
JCL to compile it, and probably another 50 to execute the sucker.

:And hey! Don't knock DOS! It may be a wimpy little thing in the corner, but
:it got the micro revolution started, and I wager alot of us are employed 
:today thanks to this boon. DOS has its problems too, and if *I* had any say
:in its design, it would look a lot better, but remember DOS was originally
:designed to fit onto and operate from a SINGLE 360K floppy! Which versions 
:of UNIX can make that claim?

But then so could TRS-DOS, and it had on-line help!

Bill
-- 
INTERNET:  bill@Celestial.COM   Bill Campbell; Celestial Software
UUCP:   ...!thebes!camco!bill   6641 East Mercer Way
             uunet!camco!bill   Mercer Island, WA 98040; (206) 947-5591
SPEED COSTS MONEY -- HOW FAST DO YOU WANT TO GO?
Newsgroups: comp.unix.questions
From: cecchinr@hornsby.cs.rpi.edu (Ron Cecchini)
Subject: Getting a file's size with the FILE data structure
Organization: Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute, Troy, NY
Date: Thu, 12 Nov 1992 21:14:35 GMT

Hi again,

 I found that you can use the FILE ds to get a file's size.  However,
there seems to be a glitch with it.  For one, the data structure is
NOT initialized after the fopen().  So, thats no good.  And you can't try
to fseek() to the beginning and look at ->_cnt.  What I found you have to do
is: fgets() a line from the file and *THEN* fseek() back to the beginning
of the file.  *NOW* ->_cnt contains the size of the file.

Ron

p.s. I have received info on using the stat() command to also get the info.

Newsgroups: comp.unix.questions
From: twpierce@unix.amherst.edu (Tim Pierce)
Subject: Re: IS UNIX DEAD? (long)
Organization: Homosexual Fascist Lobby, Rampant Paranoia Division
Date: Tue, 10 Nov 1992 06:02:05 GMT

In article <gglass07.721361955@ursa> gglass07@ursa.calvin.edu (Gideon Glass) writes:

>Listen, if you don't like VI, don't use it.  Can't you get the point?
>Those of us who like UNIX use it.

Or get ourselves another editor.  I got Emacs.  My users don't like
Emacs.  I got Pico.  My users are happier now.

Unix has survived without marketing with a mostly technical audience
for years.  It will continue to do so.

-- 
____ Tim Pierce                / 
\  / twpierce@unix.amherst.edu / I use antlers in all of my decorating.
 \/ (BITnet: TWPIERCE@AMHERST) / 
Newsgroups: comp.unix.questions
From: twriter@rd.hydro.on.ca (Timothy Writer)
Subject: Re: PC-NFS advice
Reply-To: twriter@rd.hydro.on.ca
Organization: "Ontario Hydro - Research Division"
Date: Fri, 6 Nov 92 04:23:47 GMT

jeffm@wrq.com (Jeff McKay) writes:

>I'm looking for some advice on PC NFS products.  I'm currently looking at
>Beame & Whiteside NFS and Wollogong Pathway.  I understand that both 3com

I have used both.  IMHO, BWNFS is far superior.  Wollongong is buggy!
With Wollongong, two (or more) UNIX files (in the same directory) can
map to the same DOS filename.  DOS can then trash one (or both) of the
UNIX files.

>and Novell OEM the B&W product.  Is that correct?  Does anyone have any
>opinions about these products?  What criteria should I use when evaluating
>NFS packages?  Does anyone know of any published reviews or benchmarks?

A recent UNIXWorld reviewed several, but not BWNFS.

I have personally evaluated BWNFS, Wollongong, and FTP.  IMHO, the ONLY
criteria is that it works with YOUR applications and YOUR
configuration.  If you have anything but the simplest configuration,
you'll be lucky if you can get more than one package to work.  I run
XVision or eXceed/W (X servers) within Windows 3.1, as well as BWNFS and
Netware.  I use 386Max to pack all this into high memory, leaving
myself with ~570K of low DOS memory.  I was able to do the same with
Wollongong but I didn't like the bugs!   I couldn't even come close with
FTP.  Using the settings Hummingbird recommends for using exceed/W with
FTP, FTP's total memory footprint is ~130K, in two chunks of 70K and
50K.  Furthermore, one of these drivers crashed 386Max so that I was
unable to effectively use high memory.  After an afternoons work I
couldn't even get Windows to start in 386 enhanced mode due to lack of
memory.  After that I gave up.

Hope this helps.

Tim

-- 
Tim Writer			     phone:  (416) 231-4111 ext. 6990
Ontario Hydro Research Division	     fax:    (416) 237-9285
Toronto, Ontario		     e-mail: twriter@rd.hydro.on.ca
CANADA