HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: brian@jaguar.cs.utah.edu (Brian Sturgill)
Subject: Re: More tidbits (the week of Nov. 2 was a busy news week).
Organization: University of Utah CS Dept
Date: Thu, 12 Nov 92 08:27:48 GMT

In article <1992Nov11.233637.10508@sjsumcs.sjsu.edu> rick@sjsumcs.sjsu.edu (Richard Warner) writes:
>brian@jaguar.cs.utah.edu (Brian Sturgill) writes:
>
...
>>with PC clones).  Novell's NetWare-Lite (it's peer-to-peer networking
>>for DOS) will quite likely not be able to compete with WfW.  Plus the
>>soon to be out, NT will compete head-on with Novell's NetWare line.
>
>NT will absolutely NOT compete with Netware.  Add-ins to NT will compete
>with Netware.  An important distinction (i.e., out of the box NT will 
>not be a departmental/enterprise NOS).

Microsoft claims that NT out of the box will work for nets the of up
to 100 users.  My personal feeling is that is stretching it a bit... I
think you would want the next step up of tools at 30 or so.  Still
these tools will come out at the same time as NT, so what is your point?
Further 100 or even 30 qualifies as a departmental server, so your point
is simply wrong.

>
>>Both Lotus and Novell make good packages that are expensive and require
>>knowledgable administrators.  What Microsoft has done with WfW (and
>
>For reference, various reviews place Lan Manager, upon which the NT
>add-in will be based, as the most difficult network OS to administer.
>
>>[
>>BTW, the article below keeps saying NetBIOS, but I think it should
>>be NetBEUI. (Remember OST is primarily a Unix rag.) Unless I am
>>misinformed, NetBIOS refers to a DOS set of traps that are analogous
>>to Unix system calls for networking.  NetBEUI is the transport
>>used by LAN Manager, NT, and Windows for Workgroups.
>
>And what is NETBEUI?  NetBIOS Extended User Interface, i.e., NetBIOS!

Why does NetBIOS Extended User Interface equal NetBIOS?  You seem to
lose three words.  Are those three words unimportant?
(I'm serious... I though NetBIOS meant the traps, and NetBEUI meant
the network transport protocols.  Can someone knowledgable set me straight
here?)

>
>>system, LAN Manager. NetBIOS provides dynamic naming for clients as
>>they are plugged into the net. TCP/IP clients, however must be
>>configured with specific address spaces.
>
>And that is a requirement that will need to be met for ANY network
>station that wants to connect to the rest of the world.  If a
>company stays as an island, with no Internet or NREN connectivity, no
>one will give a flying patoot. But any dynamic allocation on 
>Internet/NREN will be viewed as a major potential security breach (the
>potential for forged identification is too great).

Well if you want to go argue with Sun, Microsoft, and Novell that their ideas
to make TCP/IP are against the rules, I'll gladly send you their addresses. :-)
Personally I'd like to see TCP/IP made easy to administer.

Brian
-- 
C. Brian Sturgill                   I strongly encourage you to mail your copy
University of Utah                     of Ross Perot's:  "United We Stand
Center for Software Science            How we can take back our country",
brian@cs.utah.edu; CIS: 70363,1373        to President-elect Clinton.
From: jeh@cmkrnl.com
Newsgroups: comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy
Subject: Re: Pointer to Win versus OS/2 posting
Date: 9 Nov 92 07:59:11 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: Kernel Mode Consulting, San Diego, CA

In article <1992Nov7.133748.6212@gw.wmich.edu>, x90wardell@gw.wmich.edu writes:
> In article <1992Nov6.231441.18959@gmuvax2.gmu.edu>, pfarrell@gmuvax2.gmu.edu (Pat Farrell) writes:
>> A few months ago there was a series of postings that attempted
>> to provide an unbiased comparison between Windows and OS/2.
>> Can someone please point me to where I can get a recent copy?
>> 
> 	Brian did that, though only moderately unbiased but still about
> as unbiased as you are going to get.  He is on this conference now
> primarily.
> 

I'd like to see this too.  If someone has it and can mail it to me, please let
me know (and I will ask ONE of the responders to do so!).  

	--- Jamie Hanrahan, Kernel Mode Consulting, San Diego CA
Internet:  jeh@cmkrnl.com, hanrahan@eisner.decus.org, or jeh@crash.cts.com
Uucp:  ...{crash,eisner,uunet}!cmkrnl!jeh
Newsgroups: comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy
From: pfarrell@gmuvax2.gmu.edu (Pat Farrell)
Subject: Pointer to Win versus OS/2 posting
Keywords: OS/2 Win FAQ
Organization: George Mason University, Fairfax, Virginia, USA 
Distribution: usa
Date: Fri, 6 Nov 1992 23:14:41 GMT

A few months ago there was a series of postings that attempted
to provide an unbiased comparison between Windows and OS/2.
Can someone please point me to where I can get a recent copy?

Thanks
Pat

Pat Farrell,      Grad Student                       pfarrell@cs.gmu.edu
Department of Computer Science, George Mason University, Fairfax, VA
PGP Public key available via finger           #include standard.disclaimer
Send mail to info@rsa.com to ask for a personal use liscense for PGP
Newsgroups: comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy
From: brian@jaguar.cs.utah.edu (Brian Sturgill)
Subject: Re: NT BETA
Organization: University of Utah CS Dept
Distribution: usa
Date: Fri, 6 Nov 92 19:09:26 GMT

In article <1992Nov6.150314.21007@news.eng.convex.com> swarren@convex.com (Steve Warren) writes:
>In article <1992Nov4.143425.6657@spock.UUCP> roland@spock.uucp (David A. Braun) writes:
>>	Can anyone tell me where I can get the NT beta... I
>>want to compare it to OS/2...
>>
>>Roland.
>>
Here's the info for the "pre-beta", it should apply to the beta as well.

Brian
-------
Developer Information

Anybody can get a copy of the CDROM that contains the release of NT I've
been talking about above. The cost is $69.

The CD-ROM contains version of NT for both the
Intel and Mips architectures, 32-bit C/C++ verson of MSC 7.0 for Intel,
a C compiler for MIPS, the MSC Foundation Class library (a really
nice GUI class library w/source), WinDEbug, NMAKE, LIB, LINK, and
the Windows NT System Debugger. All docs normally available in
hard_copy are on-line.

The cost includes all releases of between now and the retail release of NT.

If you want printed copies of the docs, the cost is $399.

If you get the kits you'll get a free version of NT and the SDK tools
when the retail version comes out.  You will need to purchase MSC 7.0
though.

To order either version of the kit call 1-800-227-4679

------

Microsoft is starting a program to support Windows developers (both
3.1 and NT).

This program sends you a CD-ROM every once in a while.
The first will contain: source code form MSJ, specs and tips from
MS, copies of MS-Press books to be searched on-line (for example
Petzold's book).  Cost is $30, contact MS at (800) 227-4679, ext. 11771.
-- 
C. Brian Sturgill                   I strongly encourage you to mail your copy
University of Utah                     of Ross Perot's:  "United We Stand
Center for Software Science            How we can take back our country",
brian@cs.utah.edu; CIS: 70363,1373        to President-elect Clinton.
Newsgroups: comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.setup
From: rvinluan@cs.cornell.edu (Rolando Vinluan)
Subject: Question on Windows for Workgroups
Organization: Cornell University, CS Dept., Ithaca, NY
Date: Wed, 11 Nov 1992 17:15:31 GMT


	Hi, I've just been reading "Focus on Windows"
and have a question about the "Workgroup Connection"
package MS is offering. What I want to do is connect
two computers. One is a 486 with lots of memory and hard
disk space, and one is a Windows-capable 386SX with 4MB,
but *without* a hard disk. With the programs in the
Workgroup Connection package, can I with the SX:

	1) Under DOS, connect to the 486 running WfW.
	2) Load WfW.


	I guess my fear is that the DOS drivers might
conflict with the Windows-loaded drivers. Can somebody who's
tried to do this qualm my fears.

	Thanks in advance.
From: x90wardell@gw.wmich.edu
Newsgroups: comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy
Subject: Re: Try this with Windows
Date: 7 Nov 92 13:41:37 EST
Organization: Western Michigan University

In article <1d32nlINN5mc@golem.wcc.govt.nz>, green_s@kosmos.wcc.govt.nz writes:
> I did...
> 
> I have done the following in Windows 3.1 without a crash:
> 
> Downloading files from the net to my machine (background)
> 
> Playing a MOD files in the background
> 
> UUdecoding/unzipping the files as they arrived (In a full screen DOS window while others are still DLing)
> 
> testing the decoded/decrypted files in a DOS window
> 
> Using Wordperfect to edit a 240k file between DL's
> 
> Using WINJPEG to cycle through over 100 GIF's in the background and display each when it has loaded.
> 
> I was doing this on a 386DX 40 with 4 Megs of RAM.
> Sure... It wasn't running at max speed but it wasn't going too slow either.
> 
> Smile :)
> 
> Si.

	I'm an OS/2 advocate.  But even with that, the only primary
thing that Windows 3.1 needs to wow us OS/2 users is the multi-IO.
This is the true difference.  Without that, us OS/2 users will chime
in, "Try formatting a flopppy or copying something!".  Given 
a version of Windows that has all of Windows 3.1's capabilities plus
a bit more stability and multi-io, and OS/2 2.0, I would stay with
OS/2 ONLY because I like the Work Place Shell.
	Of course, Windows doesn't have this but from the vantage point
of what I would call the majority of OS/2 users, Windows 3.1 lacks only
the robustness ofOS/2, the multi-IO, and the work place shell that
many users don't like anyway.  So the two (on the surfeace) are not
THAT far apart.

							-Brad
From: rvenkate@ux4.cso.uiuc.edu (Ravikuma Venkateswar)
Newsgroups: comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy
Subject: Re: Macintosh bigots
Date: 14 Nov 92 01:27:46 GMT
Organization: University of Illinois at Urbana

>johnsd2@vccnw01.its.rpi.edu.its1 (Daniel Norman Johnson) writes:

>In article 21245@nosc.mil, discar@nosc.mil (Joe Discar) writes:
>>In article <agr1-_b@rpi.edu> johnsd2@vccnw01.its.rpi.edu.its1 writes:
>>[provocation for a Flamewar deleted]

>>  Look at how hard it is to transport a
>>particular formatted file (e.g., a .PCX file)...you have to worry if
>>it's a "Mac Binary", whether it's resource is set correctly for the 
>>application you're trying to use...

>This is something like worrying about if its un-uuencoded, or uncompressed.
>If its not mangled in some way, there's no problem. If it has been
>compressed or the like, there is. A CLI wont help this.

Not exactly. Suppose you want to open a Word file with a text editor... or
a file with no resource fork... I know, there are utilities to change the
ID, but it's not something you really want to have to do.

-- 
Ravikumar Venkateswar
rvenkate@uiuc.edu

A pun is a no' blessed form of whit.
Newsgroups: comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy,comp.sys.mac.advocacy
From: walk@mrcnext.cso.uiuc.edu (Todd Walk)
Subject: Re: Macintosh bigots
Organization: University of Illinois at Urbana
Date: Sun, 15 Nov 1992 21:51:50 GMT
Keywords: PC Good, Mac less so : ) 

dmsilev@athena.mit.edu (Daniel M Silevitch) writes:

>Under OS/2, you can run DOS, Windows, and native OS/2 applications, without any
>add-ons neccessary. When NT comes out, native NT apps, as well as UNIX apps will
>be added to the list of programs that can be run on a single platform.

Microsoft has said that will only guarantee the NT will "run the top
100 Dos and Windows apps.".  NT will only be able to run character mode
OS/2 1.x apps (no 2.0 apps at all), and will be able to run most POSIX
apps (not unix apps).


>Let me insert some hard numbers. Two systems, a Quadra 950 and a 486DX-50.
>Systems both have 8 Megs RAM, ~220 Meg HD. 16" color monitor on Mac, 14" SVGA
>non-interlaced on PC with 1024x768x256 display. Number-crunching power almost
>equal, advantage PC. Cost: Quadra $7200 (edu), PC $2350 (Mail Order). Is the Mac
>so much better to support a 3:1 price differential? (These are actual prices paid)

To the PC add:
high speed SCSI card	($150 min.)
high speed network card	($150 min.)
32 bit local bus high speed video card able to handle page and
2 page monitors (doesn't exist yet).
disk drive able to read more than one drive format ($?)
Ability to add extra processors (only extremely specialized ones availiable).
Ability to use more than 32 megs. (most PCs max out a 32 meg.).
System card bus that can access more than 16 meg. (ISA limit).
(The last 3 are vital to graphic professionals).

Comparing a Q950 w/ a 486DX/50 isn't really good, because a Q950 is set
up to compete against workstations, while the 486 system is set up
to do the stuff slower boxes do but faster (you could by the Q950
for the smaller jobs, but why would you?).  Also, because of the shortage
of Q950s right now, the price is higher because of demand.

Instead compare:
low price:
LC II w/ color monitor to 386/40 w/ color.  About the same price,
386 is much faster running Dos, slightly faster running Windows.

mid. price:
IIci w/color to 486DX/33.  486 much faster running Dos, about the same
running Windows.  486 system is about $600-$800 cheaper.

In the low range, Macs compete well on price.  In the high range, Macs
and PCs don't really compete (aimed at different markets).  In the
mid range, Macs are really hurting (same market, but more expensive).


					Todd Walk
					walk@mrcnext.cso.uiuc.edu
From: dmsilev@athena.mit.edu (Daniel M Silevitch)
Newsgroups: comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy
Subject: How MS could annoy Apple
Date: 13 Nov 92 14:07:59 GMT
Organization: Massachusetts Institute of Technology

What would happen if...

  Microsoft ported Windows NT to the Macintosh and the PowerPC?



Daniel Silevitch                                dmsilev@athena.mit.edu
Massachusetts Institute of Technology
Xref: sparky comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy:2597 comp.os.ms-windows.setup:1940
From: banshee@cats.ucsc.edu (Wailer at the Gates of Dawn)
Newsgroups: comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.setup
Subject: Re: Question on Windows for Workgroups
Date: 12 Nov 1992 01:04:33 GMT
Organization: University of California, Santa Cruz
NNTP-Posting-Host: am.ucsc.edu


rvinluan@cs.cornell.edu (Rolando Vinluan) writes:
>	1) Under DOS, connect to the 486 running WfW.
>	2) Load WfW.
>	I guess my fear is that the DOS drivers might
>conflict with the Windows-loaded drivers. Can somebody who's
>tried to do this qualm my fears.

No.  You can't do this.  Each system must have its own copy of WfW
unless you've a networked copy of windows using some other networking
protocol.  Get a 40 meg hard drive for the 386 and mount your apps from
the 486.

-- 
The Wailer at the Gates of Dawn              | banshee@cats.UCSC.EDU       |
Just who ARE you calling a FROOFROO Head?    |                             |
DoD#0667  "Just a friend of the beast."      | banshee@ucscb.UCSC.EDU      |
2,3,5,7,13,17,19,31,61,89,107,127,521,607....| banshee@ucscb.BITNET        |
Newsgroups: comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy
From: james@library.nrl.navy.mil (James King)
Subject: Re: NT BETA
Organization: NRL
Distribution: usa
Date: Thu, 5 Nov 1992 13:30:50 GMT

In article <1992Nov4.143425.6657@spock.UUCP> roland@spock.uucp (David A. Braun) writes:
>From: roland@spock.uucp (David A. Braun)
>Subject: NT BETA
>Date: 4 Nov 92 14:34:25 GMT
>
>	Can anyone tell me where I can get the NT beta... I
>want to compare it to OS/2...
>
>Roland.

Microsoft told me that they are mainly beta testing through the NT SDK, 
which is available for $69 by calling 800-227-4679.
From: harmsen@cs.vu.nl (Harmsen H)
Newsgroups: comp.os.ms-windows.setup
Subject: AHEAD SVGA
Date: 5 Nov 92 14:17:06 GMT
Organization: Fac. Wiskunde & Informatica, VU, Amsterdam

Can anyone help me with AHEAD SVGA drivers for windows 3.1?

Since I installed win 3.1 I do not manage to load the right 
video drivers. I think I lost some of my original AHEAD drivers.

So, can someone please send them to me or point me to an ftp site
where I can find them. 

Just aheadvdd.zip from cica seems not enough.

Thanks in advance,

Hans-Peter Harmsen		(harmsen@cs.vu.nl)
Free University, Amsterdam
-- 
----------------------------------------------------------------------
| Unbelievable but true: The African continent contains so much sand |
| that, if spread out, it would cover the entire Sahara desert.      |
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Newsgroups: comp.os.ms-windows.setup
From: tfj@apusapus.demon.co.uk (Trevor Jenkins)
Subject: Trident VGA board?
Distribution: world
Organization: Job hunters use Parachute
Date: Wed, 4 Nov 1992 23:57:32 +0000

I have an Olympic Technology 386DX machine which is running DOS 5.0 and
Windows 3.1. When the system boots the VGA BIOS identifies itself as
Trident's and says ``1024K mode''. When I run MSD (from the \windows
directory) it identifies the VGA board as a QUADTEL, also using the 386MAX
equivalent of MSD the claim is that the VGA has 512K of RAM.

Who is telling me the truth?

I RTFMed the VGA manual and it says that the board uses a Trident 8900
chip however there is NO name on the book so perhaps I've a QUADTEL board
with a Trident chipset.

I say all this because I've ftp'ed the Trident drivers from
ftp.cica.indiana.edu over the weekend but I'm reluctant to install them
until I know one way or the other.

-------------------------------------------------------------
Trevor Jenkins                                   Radio: G6AJG
134 Frankland Rd, Croxley Green, Rickmansworth, WD3 3AU
email: tfj@apusapus.demon.co.uk
phone: +44 (0)923 776436 
Newsgroups: comp.os.ms-windows.setup
From: mccall@mksol.dseg.ti.com (fred j mccall 575-3539)
Subject: Re: Need windows 3.1 driver for mouse systems serial mouse
Organization: Texas Instruments Inc
Date: Thu, 5 Nov 1992 16:37:39 GMT

In <8091@lhdsy1.lahabra.chevron.com> hillyer@rrc.chevron.com (Martin J. Hillyer,(510)242-3123) writes:

>A colleague has a mouse systems serial mouse (an old one) which he would like to use in a minimized DOS window.  Does anyone know where a recent driver for this mouse is located?  I've tried cica, but couldn't find anything there.  Of course, if I knew the name of a file it would be easier to find...

He'll have to BUY it.  I understand that they're chargine for this
driver (it is commercial software and can't be posted for FTP).

>thanks for any help.

Uh, you might want to hit the <return> key every 72 characters or so
when you post.

-- 
"Insisting on perfect safety is for people who don't have the balls to live
 in the real world."   -- Mary Shafer, NASA Ames Dryden
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Fred.McCall@dseg.ti.com - I don't speak for others and they don't speak for me.
From: chrisj@pdx041.NoSubdomain.NoDomain (Chris Jones)
Newsgroups: comp.os.ms-windows.setup
Subject: Re: Driver for Trident 1Meg VGA Card
Keywords: VGA Trident
Date: 7 Nov 92 06:12:54 GMT
Article-I.D.: ichips.1992Nov7.061254.27300
Reply-To: chrisj@ichips.intel.com
Organization: INTEL X86 Focus Group

In article <1992Oct30.204623.2520965@locus.com>, jpaul@locus.com (James Hensley) writes:
|> In article <Oct.29.15.08.02.1992.26505@andromeda.rutgers.edu> tmorgan@andromeda.rutgers.edu (Talib K. Morgan) writes:
|> >If anyone knows where I can download a Windows 3.1 driver for my 1Meg Trident 
|> >VGA card, could you please let me know.
|> >Thanks,
|> >Talib
|> 
|> There are some on ftp.cica.indiana.edu under /pub/pc/win3/drivers/video, 
|> you want tvgaw31a.zip and tvgaw31b.zip.
|> 
|> Worked for me.

Has anyone else had problem with some colors on the color palette with
these drivers?  I set up some colors from the control panel, but in
some programs, the hi-lighting turns out white-on-white.  Also, when
picking the colors out of the palette, they don't appear in the
windows to be the same color that I chose.

Any ideas?  Please e-mail!
--Chris
+-------------------------------+---------------------------------+
| Chris S Jones, Intel Corp.    :    chrisj@ichips.intel.com      |
| 2111 N.E. 25th, JF1-19        :    (503) 696-4022               |
| Hillsboro, OR 97124           :    #include <std.disclaimer>    |
+-------------------------------+---------------------------------+
From: mcglob@usissc.DaytonOH.NCR.COM (Brian.McGloin)
Newsgroups: comp.os.ms-windows.setup
Subject: HP Deskjet 500: Any Good???
Date: 10 Nov 92 15:54:09 GMT
Reply-To: mcglob@usissc.DaytonOH.NCR.COM (Brian.McGloin)
Organization: DaytonOH.NCR.COM


I just bought a new Gateway 486sx-25 w/8MB memory, 170 MB HD, and Telepath
modem, and I'm considering buying a decent, quiet print.  I can't afford a 
laser printer, so I was considering the HP Deskjet 500.  A CompUSA store
in nearby Cincinnati had them on sale for $375.

I use Windows 3.1 a lot and I'm wondering how this printer works under Windows?

Thanks in advance !!!

-- 
Brian T. McGloin	| Lift your glasses, friend, with mine 
NCR Corp.		| And raise your hand with me 
USG/ISS-OLS		| I'm England stole, I'm Ireland spent 
Miamisburg, OH 45342	| I'm an outlaw raparee
From: mccall@mksol.dseg.ti.com (fred j mccall 575-3539)
Newsgroups: comp.os.ms-windows.setup
Subject: Re: Need help w/ Win3.1 upgrade
Date: 12 Nov 92 18:46:58 GMT
Organization: Texas Instruments Inc

In <BxIEvM.Ip8@javelin.sim.es.com> bgeer@javelin.sim.es.com (Bob Geer) writes:

>bgeer@javelin.sim.es.com (Bob Geer) writes:
>>My Win3.0 installation works fine, but my Win3.1 upgrade randomly
>>halts w/ a white-on-blue "system halted parity errors" message
>>onscreen.  I have re-loaded my Win3.0 & it runs fine even when
>>stressed with something like 3 rows of icons worth of programs
>>started, incl. lots of graphics display programs.  I re-upgraded my
>>Win3.1 upgrade & get more parity error system halts.  Re-upgrading
>>with a friend's Win3.1 disks does the same thing.

>>I have low-level formatted my disk, have plenty of disk space, run all
>>the diagnostics I have -- DiskManager that came with my Seagate disk.
>>(I don't have a copy of CheckIt yet, unfortunately.)

>Corrected info:

>motherboard: 	DTK 386-20 "FastET20" w/ 1 meg on board
>RAM board:	DTK PEI-301 32-bit bus w/ 8 meg 80ns.
>disk cont:	DTC 7287 RLL Winchester & floppy cont.
>disks:		2 277-r Seagate 62 meg.
>video:		ATI VGA Wonder w/ 512k (I have 3.1 drivers)

>Please help if you can...it's driving me crazy.  Bob

Windows 3.1 is harder on your memory and system timing than Windows
3.0.  The fact that one of them works is NOT an indication that
everything is ok for the other one.  If you can, try adding memory
wait-states on the motherboard and see if the problem goes away (yes,
it will run slower).

The parity error is, of course, complaining that your memory is
generating errors (which usually is the result of marginal memory not
keeping up with the necessary system timing).

-- 
"Insisting on perfect safety is for people who don't have the balls to live
 in the real world."   -- Mary Shafer, NASA Ames Dryden
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Fred.McCall@dseg.ti.com - I don't speak for others and they don't speak for me.
Newsgroups: comp.os.ms-windows.setup,comp.os.ms-windows.misc
From: lari@saadi.berkeley.edu (Francesco Lari)
Subject: Re: Windows with 2M RAM 
Reply-To: lari@robotics.berkeley.edu 	
Organization: UC Berkeley Signal Processing VLSI Group
Date: Mon, 9 Nov 1992 18:55:19 GMT


Hi, 

I got a friend with a 386-SX/33MHz and 2M of RAM, 80M HD. 
Is it possible to run Windows with this configuration? 
I understand it is going to be pretty slow, but she is just going to use 
simple word processing programs like Word. Do you think she will be 
able to run it? 

		      Thanks, 

			  FRANCESCO 





Newsgroups: comp.os.ms-windows.setup