From: "James H. Kiley" <jkiley@andy.bgsu.edu>
Subject: Re: Ord Gods?
X-Gated-By: The Black Marble Wombat@morticia.cnns.unt.edu
X-Gated-From: torg mailing list
Organization: University of North Texas
X-Gatemail-Version: 1.0b
Date: Tue, 8 Sep 1992 20:15:54 GMT



On Tue, 8 Sep 1992, Rick Jones wrote:

> #include <IMHO.h>
> #include <it's_only_a_game.h>

  #include <ditto.h>

> 	Okay, here's my take on religion in Torg.  It says in one of the 
> rulebooks that for each religion there's a cosm with a 33 spirit axiom 
> that is equivalent to the "Heaven" of that religion. (The Silver City, 
> Olympus, Asgard, Lanala's Busom)

	Heh, Lanala's Bosom.  How wonderful. :)  But yeah, so far I agree.

> 	So, the spirit axiom of a cosm is, essentially, a measure of 
> how 'close' the cosm is to their version of spiritual perfection.  
> (since the Priests of Palan have a different version than the Sacellum)
> As the spirit axiom rises, one religion gains predominance, until 
> only one god/pantheon can communicate with the the cosm.  IMHO, 
> were the cosm ever to achieve a 33 spirit axiom, it would merge with
> "Olympus."  Now, most of the cosms we have seen don't have a very high
> spiritual axiom (with the exception of the Living Land, see below), so
> the cosm's the link with their gods isn't strong enough for their 
> gods to directly intervene.  (Which is why Dunad, for example, doesn't
> manifest directly and toss Drakanus into the nearest volcano.)

	[An interesting point here is that while we see that a Magical or
Technological axiom of 33 would have roughly universal characteristics (I 
tend to see a 'topping out' of both magic and tech, leading to one inexorable
conclusion) while a Spiritual or Social axiom of 33 seems to have an 
infinite number of possibilities available to it, with an infinite number of
religions and societies possible.  But ANYhow...]

> 	Now, another problem is that Darkness Devices can use thier 
> power to warp reality to interfere with spirtual energy.  In the 
> Living Land, Kaah has managed to create a new religion and priest 
> class(the gotaks), feeding off the power of the Darkness Device.  
> He's also probably using Rec Pakken to keep Lanala from warning her
> followers about Kaah's odious habits.  (However, since Kaah is 
> letting the optants continue, so long as they don't mess with the 
> gotaks, Lanala may be biding her time with Kaah, and hoping that 
> good edeinos like Elvis and Taztor will bring her lizards back to 
> the old time religion.)

	Yeah, this is what I see and frankly it bugs the piddle out of me.
I don't think that these Darkness Devices should be able to change Gods, and
yet by tampering with the Spirit axiom as well as the religion that's what
they do.

> 	Malraux is doing something similar with Le Croix Noir.  The
> Cyberpapacy is a corruption of the Magna Veritan religion, and as such,
> the energy to fuel the cyberpriests has to come from somewhere.
> {excuse #1634 for Malraux being so slow to expand, his priests are 
> using a lot the the possibility energy that was already low after the 
> tech surge}  The spiritual axiom is low enough (thanks to Malraux's
> corrupting influence on the priesthood) that God(Magna Veritas) can't
> properly defend his priesthood from Malraux.  If the MV priesthood were
> to manage to boost their worshipers enough to raise the spirit axiom,
> they might be able to use more powerful miracles to wonk Malraux properly.

	So you're suggesting perhaps that two or more religions might coexist 
with the same God?  Ick.  I mean, it's pretty accurate, but ick. :)

> Rick Jones				Systems Support Center
> "I'm the Chosen One.  And I choose to go shopping."-Buffy the Vampire Slayer

I think that Rick and I must be the only people in the cosmverse, nay, the
infiniverse, who liked that movie.

JimBo
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