From: snorthc@relay.nswc.navy.mil (Stephen Northcutt - E41)
Newsgroups: soc.religion.christian
Subject: Re: Question on the Bible
Date: 1 Oct 92 03:43:07 GMT
Organization: NAVAL SURFACE WARFARE CENTER

Nick (Friend of Entropy) and I continue the discussion:

I wrote:
>>A point about equality of men and women.... this is a very recent concept,

Nick replies:
>	So when God passed down his laws to Moses, _HE_ was limited by
>the current popular opinions of his creations?  I would hope that Gods
>laws are somehow outside the current state of sexual politics.

Well no, I wasn't implying God's judgment is flawed, but that equality
of the sexes is a new concept that might well not survive another quarter
of a century... put more bluntly, you could be wrong here.  

Put aside the "current state of sexual politics" as you put it.  Now
in strict logical truth, do men = women?  No!  The ability to conceive
comes to mind immediatly.  Now why oh why would you bet your immortal
soul on such an issue?

>In short, God should believe that his followers are equal, even if 
>his flawed creations do not.

Well er uh, I understand that there are passages in the Bible that
trouble you, that is one thing.  But does it make any sense for you
to dictate what God is supposed to believe?

>> A point to consider per slavery.  You ARE a slave.  I AM a slave.
>	This is my point:  how do you know that?  I mean, you brush of
>Gods suposed views about slavery and the sexes, but then you believe all
>the discussions about Satan? 

Nick, I didn't brush off God's view on the sexes, I brushed off your
view.  I am asking you to ask yourself about how many generations there
have been in the history of the world?  How many generations have considered
the sexes equal?  One generation, sort of, in some parts of the world?
I, surprise surprise, side with God's Word on this issue.

Now, slavery.  I am not brushing off God's view, I am pointing out that
we ALL choose to be slaves of either God or Satan.  Have you ever noticed
that people today sell themselves into slavery just as the Jews did?  They
buy a house with a 30 year mortagage, they enslave themselves to alchohol or
drugs.  

> How do you know that those views were not
>merely attempts by the spiritual leaders of that age to keep the followers
>in line.  Something they dug out of old legend, because they thought it
>was nessesary for some reason.  Dont your think you are on shakey ground,
>when you begin to dismiss the relevence of some parts of the bible, but
>believe without question the others?

Great questions!!!!  The pat answer is faith, you just have to have faith.
The intellectual answer is demonstrable fullfilment of prophecy.  Also
there is an incredible amount of work in archeology that corroborates
"the old legend".  I don't want to try any of those answers on you, because
I don't believe for any of those reasons.  I believe because God (more correctly
God - the Holy Spirit) didn't give me much choice.  I was doing a fairly
excellent job of serving Satan, plenty $$$, foxy women, drugs, adventure,
champion full contact heavyweight martial artist... one bad dude.
That was in fact the crack in my hard heart.

One day the illogic of it struck me..... that I was proud I was a "BAD dude".
You see, I had come to think it was good to be bad.  But I realized that
that was stupid, it was bad to be BAD and good to be good!  That was when
I really realized that I was a sinner.  This my friend is the point!

The point is not whether men and women should be equal.  The point is
that you and I sin, we are both sinners.  You can't immigrate to heaven
if you are a sinner, because God hates sin.  What to do?   Ditch the sin.
How?  You sincerely ask Jesus to come into your heart, admit to him you
are a sinner, ask him to forgive you, to SAVE you.  Simple and thus
you can save your soul!

Now, no more old sin.  When you sin AGAIN, ask Jesus to forgive you.  Keep
reading that Bible especially the new testament, put what it says
into practice, pray (a lot).  You'll do fine... well except for the warnings
I gave you last post about being scorned and persecuted :-)  Oh and check it
out!  the formula is EXACTLY the same for men and women, they are equal in
God's eyes :-)

>	Well, if i disagree with Gods views, as expressed in the bible, 
>who exactly am i worshiping then? 

You too are a BAD dude!  :-(

>what reason do i have to worship a god who is behind 
>actions and views that i hate, 

Well, if you will try what I said this post and last post:

>>Which brings up an important point.  Your gonna do a lot better if you
>>start with the most important commandments in the bible and work your
>>way down to worrying about this other stuff.... Start by loving the
>>Lord with all your heart, mind and soul and then love your neighbors as
>>yourself.   Make sure that you have a loving/serving heart attitude with the
>>works to go with it and you won't spend a lot of time getting upset about
>>slavery, equality, capital punishment and whatever else.

I promise you will will be changing your opinion on a lot of things!!!!!

Look you cared enough to read your bible, you cared enough to post your
questions, why don't you take a vacation for a while from serving the world
and give God a try?  If you do this and I am wrong, that your opinions don't
change, hey you can always go back.  Are you a sensitive person?  The
Holy Spirit is trying to get your attention right now, what have you got 
worth losing?  Come on Nick, there is whole legion of angels in heaven
ready to throw a party in your behalf!

God Bless you!  Stephen