From: dharma@verdix.com (Manjeri Dharmarajan)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.indian
Subject: Re: Forgeries of Hindu Texts
Date: 13 Apr 92 08:18:43 GMT
Article-I.D.: verdix.4514
Reply-To: dharma@VERDIX.COM (Manjeri Dharmarajan)
Followup-To: soc.culture.indian
Organization: Verdix Western Operations; Aloha, OR

In article <1992Apr12.221150.22533@watserv1.waterloo.edu> mvishnu@sunee.uwaterloo.ca (m vishnu) writes:
>
>I too feel that at least some parts of the popular hindu texts are 
>not authentic, they are too simple-minded, and are disgustingly
>bramin-praising.

No arguments here. The Brahmins, like everybody else, were not above a little
self-aggrandization.

>
>In the book "Bhagavad Gita As It Was", the auther (an Indian) condemns
>the Bramins for the downfall of the great country that was India.

Sigh. I'm sure the author doesn't consider Moghul India "real" India. He 
probably thinks the Taj Mahal is an eyesore, and Urdu poetry is trash. And
don't even mention British, or modern India.

>He says that bramins helped the Muslim invaders thinking that the new moslem
>kings (as opposed to the then present Buddhist kings) would support the
>Bramins and their sacrifices. The details can be found in the indroductory
>part of this book.  

Can you post his arguments. To paraphrase my father, the Brahmins may be stupid,
but they're not DAMN stupid. :-)

The Brahmins had plenty of warning of what was in store for them from Mahmud
Ghaznavis regular trips to Somnath. Atleast, the Buddhist kings didn't loot
temples and kill all "non-believers." And by the time these invasions happened
(11-12th century?), Buddhist was on the wane, and many of the kings were good
old Hindus.

>
>I feel bramins did the greatest damage to my mother tongue, Tamil.  Even 
>now, if you go to a South Indian temple, no non-bramin can go anywhere
>near the shrine. 

Only the priests are allowed in the inner sanctum. All visitors (including
brahmins) can only come up to the door-way. Of course, only brahmins are
priests, but that's by definition, isn't it?

TN has had a DK government (in some incarnation or another) or 25 years now.
They would LOVE to get something new to beat the Brahmins with. If non-brahmins
were really not allowed into some temples, the government would be all over 
them.

The truth is that Brahmins in Tamil Nadu were persecuted by the Govt., and
some segments of the population. Now with Jayalalita as CM, it's probably
decreased.

>Milk, and other foodstuff are poured on the idol in great
>quantity and are wasted.  We can excuse such acts if it is done in a plentiful
>country, but in India, just outside the temple the people are starving.

If you want communism, move to Cuba.

>They only use sanskrit for all communications with the idol.

How does this damage Tamil? I mean, Tamil is used for everything else. Sanskrit
is used ONLY for prayers. If you are worried about the future of Tamil, worry
about Hindi and English.

>
>When the great bhakthi movement swept TN, the nayanmaars (ironically more than
>70% of the nayanmars were bramins!), wrote vast numbers of
>hymns to Siva in beautiful Tamil.  Sambandhar (a bramin), one of the nayanmaar
>is said to have composed more than 65000 hymns, but only 600 has survived
>today.  

So Brahmins helped Tamil! Many of them actually preferred to compose prayers
in Tamil, rather than Sanskrit. Tell me, why didn't the Kings, or other folk
save these hymns? Was there only one copy? Did everybody forget? Maybe they
weren't worth remembering.

[ referring to how Sanskrit "debased" Tamil literature ]
>
>Thevaneyar, in his translation to the Tamil Veda (Thirukkural) has a lot 
>more details regarding this.

Can you post it, please? I'd like to see some proof.

	Dharmarajan