From: jamesou@liverbug.hsc.usc.edu (James Ou)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.china,soc.culture.taiwan
Subject: Re: Hus Fu and the Japanese
Date: 26 Dec 1992 15:53:42 -0800
Organization: University of Southern California, Los Angeles, CA
NNTP-Posting-Host: liverbug.hsc.usc.edu


In <1992Dec25.015921.19296@CSD-NewsHost.Stanford.EDU>, nlu@Xenon.Stanford.EDU
(Nelson Lu) writes:

>Well, you can argue that the circumstances are different, but huge slaughters
>were not unknown in Eastern Chou and earlier periods.

No, it was not unknown. The point is that Ying Zheng did it. Maybe
you are right that Ying Zheng really wasn't that bad. Here is
a statement of Confucius which can explain why Ying had such a
bad reputation. Confucius said, "Zhou4 zhi1 guo4 bu4 ru2 shi4
zhi1 sheng4 ye3; shi4 yi3 jun1 zi3 er4 ju1 xia4 liu2, tian1 xia4
zhi1 guo4 jie1 gui1 yan1." (The crime of Zhou4 king of Shang
dynasty really wasn't that bad. That was the reason why a
superior person would hate to stay in a bad position. The bad
things in the whole world would be put under his name.)

>
>Well, his palace wasn't really all that extraordinary.

Well, I am not sure. Base on the size of the Qin Tomb, the palace
likely was also very big. In any event, that palace was the first
of its kind.

>Just a few years after
>the collapse of his dynasty, Shao Her, the prime minister of Han, built a
>great palace (Wei Yang Gong) as well, and the palace, by the admission of the
>emperor, Liu Bong, was extravagant.  Also, hundreds of years before Ying Zheng,
>Chu kings have already built such structures as the famous Ling Tower, etc.

Okay, you reminded me of one major difference between the Qin
dynasty and the early Han4 dynasty. Generally speaking, the laws
of the latter were more lenient than those of the former. Liu
Bang received a lot of support from people, because he got rid of
most of the cruel laws of the Qin dynasty. He said, "Sha1 ren2
zhe3 si3, shang1 ren2 ji2 dao4 di3 zui4." (People who kill people
will be executed, and people who injure or rob other people will
pay for their crimes.) This was called "Yue1 Fa3 San1 Zhang1"
(The deal of three chapters of laws). Now, about the palace Wei4
Yang1 Gong1, LiuBang was actually angry at Xiao1 He2 when he saw
the palace. He told Xiao, "People have just been through 8 years
of wars. How could you waste their time and energy to construct
this gigantic palace?"

>>No, historians blamed him because he was indeed a tyrant.
>
>Then, why didn't they blame Liu Che4 (Han Wu Di) for pretty much the same
>things that Ying Zheng did?

LiuChe was often criticized for "Hao4 Da4 Xi3 Gong1, Qiong2 Bing1
Du2 Wu3" (Arrogant and exhausting the nation for wars). When we
look at the Han history, the four emperors flanking him were
highly praised. Historically, the eras of these four emperors
were called "Wen2 Jing3 Zhi1 Zhi4" and "Zhao1 Xuan1 Zhi1 Zhi4".
Wu3 Di4 was left out. Why?

>Why didn't they blame Yang Guang, who was far
>worse than the two mentioned above, as much as they blamed Ying Zheng?

If they did not, then how did you get to know that Yang2 Guang3
was a jerk?  :-)  He murdered his father and his elder brother,
fondled his father's concubines, enslaved people to build the
Great Canal for his pleasure, sent hundreds of thousands of
Chinese to Korea to die, etc. Why did you say that historians did
not blame him for his crimes? :-)


****Confucius said, "Ke1 Zheng4 Meng3 Yu2 Hu3."
(A cruel government is more vicious than a tiger.)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.china