HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: jaskew@spam.ua.oz (Joseph Askew)
Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast
Subject: Re: Another Missed Opportunity
Summary: It's getting wierder folks
Date: 11 Nov 92 02:43:10 GMT
Followup-To: talk.politics.mideast
Organization: Statistics, Pure & Applied Mathematics, University of Adelaide

In article <1992Nov5.215138.18327@ennews.eas.asu.edu> makowsky@enuxha.eas.asu.edu (David Makowsky) writes:
>In article <1d9tttINNr8n@manuel.anu.edu.au> bdm@cs.anu.edu.au writes:

># >    Going to another David Palmer rally?

># Have you ever considered that maybe I _am_ David Palmer?

>       Would not surprise me one bit.

So Brendan killed Laura Palmer!! I always suspected there was something
strange about him. So why the plastic Brendan?


Joseph
-- 
Joseph Askew, Gauche and Proud  At dawn with staff in hand I climbed the crags,
jaskew@spam.maths.adelaide.edu  At dusk I made my camp amoung the mountains.
Disclaimer? Sue, see if I care  Only a few peaks rise as high as this house,
One China One Korea One Eire32  Facing the crags, it overlooks winding streams.
Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast
From: shaig@Think.COM (Shai Guday)
Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast,soc.culture.arabic,soc.culture.lebanon
Subject: Re: Arithmetic Error (was Re: It's no Use (was Re: ...))
Date: 11 Nov 1992 16:23:51 GMT
Organization: Thinking Machines Corporation, Cambridge MA, USA
Distribution: world
NNTP-Posting-Host: galaxy.think.com

In article <BxK4oK.4pA@newsflash.concordia.ca>, ilyess@ECE.Concordia.CA (Ilyess Bdira) writes:
|> 
|> Israel is not killing Palestinians en masse, they are only killing
|> enough people to prevent Palestinians from acquiring a critical mass
|> in their Intifadah. I would expect them to do so.

I couldn't help but note that if the intifadah were a non-violent
demonstration, the need for violence on the part of the Israeli
gov't would not exist.

Insofar as killing enough people to prevent a critical mass, while
I disagree with this statement, I would like you to define what
would happen once this critical mass were to be reached before I
comment further.

|> As I mentioned before
|> the probability of being killed by IDF is  still very small right now, but still
|> not many people are rebelling although they are opposed to the occupation.
|> In their subconscious, they  have the impression that they will all be 
|> slaughtered if they rebel.. This of course is wrong.

Do you mean that their impression is wrong, or that their actions are wrong?
From: aaldoubo@copper.denver.colorado.edu (Ohm Jihad)
Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast
Subject: Re: Farewell to TPM! :-()
Date: 8 Nov 92 04:08:26 GMT
Organization: University of Colorado at Denver

In article <1992Nov6.201629.14034@discus.technion.ac.il> s2780369@techst02.technion.ac.il (David Ben-ami) writes:
>
>Hello all TPM Readers,
>
>  I am now leaving school after graduation as a BSc in Computer Science
>  and going to fill my duty of army service in the IDF. I probably
>  wouldn't  have any opportunity to participate in the TPM forum.

Mazel tov ya Daoud ...

Just remember us when you are serving in the Occupied Territories -
how we tried to convey the message of understanding and compassion
for our people there.

And when you see the face of an Arab child, think Salam first.
 
Wa aleichem shalom and best of luck to you.

Anisa
	"The best kind - angry, rebellious, critical - a renegade ..."

Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast
From: naftaly@supergas.dazixco.ingr.com (Naftaly Stramer)
Subject: Do they really want peace
Reply-To: naftaly@dazixco.ingr.com
Organization: Dazix
Date: Wed, 11 Nov 1992 16:07:27 GMT



"HADASHOT", (p.7) -- Aharon klein reports that senior officials in the
northern command approved yesterday the findings reported by the U.N.
observation force, on the Syrian violation of the disengagement of forces
agreement.  The sources said that Israel prefers to overlook the Syrian
violations, as stressed by the U.N. observation forces, as well as other
violations, such as the stationing of commando forces in the city of
Kuneitra next to the Israeli border, opposite kibbutz Ein-Zivan.
The officials defined them as "permanent violations".  Official military
sources refused to relate yesterday to this subject.

In the telegram sent by the commander of the liaison unit to foreign
forces, Brigadier Spiegel, to senior elements in the General Staff and the
Northern Command, he emphasizes, among other things, that the reports of
the U.N. observation forces on the violation of the disengagement agreement
between Israel and Syria have been transmitted for a number of years.

According to the [aforementioned] report, which was transferred to Israel
following the inspection which was held on the Syrian side last Wednesday,
the Syrians possess a battalion of 122 millimeter cannons with a range of
over 20 km. near Tel Al-Hara in the center of the Golan Heights strip.  The
battalion is composed of 18 cannons.  The location of the battalion inside
the 20 km. strip in the border with Israel constitutes a violation of the
disengagement of forces agreement which was signed between Israel and Syria
in 1974.

The report also mentions that during inspection, it was disclosed that the
Syrians hold 21 ground-to-air missiles and 8 launchers for these missiles
in the dilution strip along the border with Israel, less than 25 km. from
the border and in explicit contradiction to the disengagement agreement.

In the report which was submitted to Israel, U.N. observers stress that
Syria prevented them from carrying out inspections in seven different sites
along the border with Israel.


----
Naftaly Stramer (303)581-2370, FAX (303)581-9972    Intergraph Corporation
Internet: naftaly@dazixco.ingr.com                  Electronics Division    
UUCP: ..uunet!ingr!dazixco!naftaly  	            5101 Spine Road
Please excuse my English			    Boulder, CO 80301
Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast
From: dzk@cs.brown.edu (Danny Keren)
Subject: Re: Is Assad dead?
Organization: Brown University Department of Computer Science
Date: Sun, 8 Nov 1992 01:51:52 GMT

ilyess@ECE.Concordia.CA (Ilyess Bdira) writes:

#I hope it is not just some wishful thinking by the syrians (from
#where I got this information) This kind of thing happened to Brejniev
#many times before the real thing eventually happened.

With Brejniev it was different - the party had to agree that he
really died :-)

#I heard The next in line is even worse than Assad anyway.

I thought it was his son. Just don't tell me its Mustafa "the cannibal"
Tlas.

-Danny Keren.

Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast
From: ifaz706@utxvms.cc.utexas.edu (Noam Tractinsky)
Subject: Re: Rebel attack kills 5 Israeli soldiers,
Organization: University of Texas @ Austin
Date: 5 Nov 92 18:01:51 CST

In article <1d7u5mINNdkm@manuel.anu.edu.au>, bdm@cs.anu.edu.au (Brendan McKay) writes:
> In article 1@utxvms.cc.utexas.edu, ifaz706@utxvms.cc.utexas.edu (Noam Tractinsky) writes:
>>	Ok, I admit we've occupied the world. Now, I forget, what was 
>>	the British defence? 
> 
> The same as the Romans' defence: they wanted defensible borders.


	Brendan, now that you've refuted the allegations that the
	Brits were only looking for a place where they could safely
	dispose of their worst criminals, you leave me no choice but 
	to conclude that the British case is, after all, different 
	than ours.

 
>>Noam
> 
> Brendan.  PS: :-)


Noam		{:-)
From: aaldoubo@copper.denver.colorado.edu (Ohm Jihad)
Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast
Subject: Re: Hezbollah
Date: 8 Nov 92 22:54:18 GMT
Organization: University of Colorado at Denver

In article <1diktfINNdgj@manuel.anu.edu.au> bdm@cs.anu.edu.au writes:
>In article <1dgq2lINN2r6@usenet.INS.CWRU.Edu> Mark Ira Kaufman writes:
>>   While I would agree that Ariel Sharon is a nasty man, I do not
think that it is wise to make up stories to make him appear worse
than he really is.

My God, how worse can a person be who had knowledge of (and in any
democratic society, this is considered to be an accessory to the
fact/crime, and punishable therein) the bloody massacre of human
beings?

>> Did Sharon know that it was going to take place?  
>
>No.

Bullsh*t.

Trying to influence others that the top intelligence agency in the
world does not know what is going on 'next door' is the most pathetic
excuse I've ever heard.  Of course Sharon knew.  It wasn't in Israel's
interests to intervene, and of course they would support Sharon and
use an excuse possible to wash their hands of the affair.
 
Trying to justify the slaughter of even these human beings just to
absolve that son of a *itch Sharon is unbelievable from rational,
thinking people.  It just proves that they can say and do whatever they
like and no one can challenge it - where is the proof that Israel didn't
know?  This just continues along the lines of double standards - but as
long as it happened to Arabs and not Jews (conveniently by other Arabs),
it is condoned.  No problem.  And those bastards aren't ever getting their
sovereignty.  Israel first and only.

Wonder why we aren't so receptive to peace?

Anisa
	"The best kind - angry, rebellious, critical - a renegade ..."
Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast,soc.culture.arabic,soc.culture.lebanon
From: zmood@vaxc.cc.monash.edu.au
Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast
Subject: Re: MEQ #17: Ben-Gurion on Israeli expansi
Date: 11 Nov 92 23:23:18 GMT
Organization: Computer Centre, Monash University, Australia

In article <1dnnh0INNcie@manuel.anu.edu.au>, bdm@cs.anu.edu.au (Brendan McKay) writes:
> In article 25720@trl.oz.au, faris@sarcasm.trl.OZ.AU (Aziz Faris) writes:
>>In article <1dn0i5INNb29@manuel.anu.edu.au>, bdm@cs.anu.edu.au (Brendan McKay) writes:
>  
>>|> In article 18155@trl.oz.au, faris@sarcasm.trl.OZ.AU (Aziz Faris) writes:
>>|> >In article <1dk9h2INNnqm@manuel.anu.edu.au>, bdm@cs.anu.edu.au (Brendan McKay) writes:
> 
>>|> >|>       MEQ #17.  Teveth on Ben-Gurion's vision of the future of Israel, 1937.
>>|> [...]
> 
>>|> >Did Ben-Gurion have an idea of where the Jewish state's borders should be?.
> 
>>|> I don't have a clear idea of this.  I think it varied during his life,
>>|> but I don't know of any instance where he called for an empire from the
>>|> Nile to the Euphrates as a few Zionists did.  Certainly he wanted all
>>|> of what was called Palestine in 1937 (now Israel+WB+Gaza) but probably
>>|> also Lebanon up to the Litani, the Golan, and parts of Jordan. 
> 
>>Thus if the peace process comes to an end (which it will), Israel will annex
>>south Lebanon. Then 2/3 of the Israeli expansion goal beyond the borders of 
>>Palestine would have been realised. This leaves the east bank of the Jordan
>>river for future conquest.
> 
> I don't think that follows.  Ben-Gurion is not the boss any more, nor is
> Shamir (whose politics was closer to BG's than most people will admit;
> this comment will get me flamed, ho ho :=).  One can speculate that 
> permanent annexation of part of south Lebanon was one of the long-term 
> aims of the 1982 war, but (a) there's no solid direct evidence of that, 
> and (b) Israel now knows that nothing short of the most draconian measures 
> could "pacify" the south to the extent where settlement was possible.
> My bet is that annexation is not currently considered to be a realistic
> option.  I just wish Israel would hurry up and realise that there is
> only one option, and that is withdrawal from Lebanon.
> 
>>A.Faris
> 
> Brendan.
> 
Let us assume that what Israelis call the " Security Zone " is just that. Then
it would follow that withdrawal would only follow when security was ensured.
Hence considering the present situation, the above does not seem imminent even
with withdrawal the prefered option. The question then is, " Whether Israel 
should withdraw regardless of the present situation "? Under article 51 of the
U.N. charter....... Until Lebanon, can assure Israel that its citizens will not
commit hostile acts against Israel, what option does Israel have ?

Daniel Zmood
From: marwang@caip.rutgers.edu (Marwan Gharaybeh)
Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast
Subject: Re: Answer to nabeel
Date: 11 Nov 92 01:49:02 GMT
Organization: Rutgers Univ., New Brunswick, N.J.

anwar+@cs.cmu.edu (Anwar Mohammed) writes:

>It figures...

good you can "figure"...

>If you're an engineer, you should have heard of Harvey Mudd, one of
>the Claremont Colleges (along w/ Pomona, Claremont McKenna, Scripps,....
>feel free to jump in, Geoff).

Ok ... Ok ... I just did not know how prestegeous it is to be in the mud.

______________________________________________________________________________
                                                                             _
Marwan Gharaybeh:                         ||                               _(_ 
                                          ||               | |               |
Better Known as ...                       ||    ()         | |               |
                                          ||           _   | |      .-     | |
Hadi el-gossah gossat hamdah ...          ||      \___/ \__/ |      (_|____/ |
Hamdah, el-rimsh elly yitehaddah ...      ||       |  \_/    |        |      |
galat mareedak ...                        ||  \___/      /   |   \___/    *  |
mareedak, lo tethbahnee be`eedak mareedak.||            /
===============================================================================
From: gmeltzne@jarthur.claremont.edu (Goof)
Subject: Re: Answer to nabeel
Organization: Harvey Mudd College, Claremont, CA 91711
Date: Sat, 14 Nov 1992 02:34:27 GMT

In article <4373@copper.Denver.Colorado.EDU> aaldoubo@copper.denver.colorado.edu (Shaqeeqa) writes:
>In article <1992Nov13.043900.12080@muddcs.claremont.edu> gmeltzne@jarthur.claremont.edu (Goof) writes:
>>
>>	It seems you know less than I thought (if that was possible).
>
>Manu, I suggest that you take this to email.  This is becoming more and
>more redundant and abrasive to many people.  It has nothing to do with
>talk.politics.mideast ... so put a CORK in it!!
			^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^


	And this isn't infantilism?  

>
>>	Uh huh and you know what you're talking about.  
>
>Like YOU really do!  The only thing you understand is how to effectively
>flame and insult people.
>
	At least I understand that the only way to achieve any settlement
	in the mideast is to try to be pragmatic about the situation, and
	not to call Palestinians blood thirsty evil German thieves and
	only offer a solution that gives no compromise.  I don't blame 
	everything that goes wrong in Israel and Jews in general on Arabs.
	I try to look at both sides of the issue which is more than I can
	say for you and your supporters.  I try to UNDERSTAND the claim of
	the Arabs and Palestinians.   I UNDERSTAND that there are 
	problems with Israel but I can do nothing to correct them.However,
	I have yet to read when you have crticized a Palestinian.  I 
	UNDERSTAND that I do not know everything about the history and
	circumstances that surround the area and I try to improve my 
	knowledge.  I know I don't understand everything, but I understand
	more than a little.


>Skout ya ajdab!!!

	I do admit that I don't (unfortunately) understand Arabic.

	Geoff
> 

>Anisa
>


-- 
Email: gmeltzne@jarthur.claremont.edu            

A .sig?  A .sig? We don't need no stinkin' .sigs!
From: bdm@cs.anu.edu.au (Brendan McKay)
Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast
Subject: Re: Another Missed Opportunity
Date: 8 Nov 1992 05:44:09 GMT
Organization: Australian National University
Distribution: world
Reply-To: bdm@cs.anu.edu.au
NNTP-Posting-Host: 150.203.23.70

In article 18327@ennews.eas.asu.edu, makowsky@enuxha.eas.asu.edu (David Makowsky) writes:
>In article <1d9tttINNr8n@manuel.anu.edu.au> bdm@cs.anu.edu.au writes:
# In article 743@ennews.eas.asu.edu, .. (David Makowsky) writes:

># >	This is slightly misleading, unless you meant the Stern gang instead
># >of the Irgun.  The Irgun stayed away (as much as they could) from the
># >British during World War II.  This was one of the differences between
># >the Irgun and the Stern gang.
> 
># You are only correct up to 1944.  The Irgun "Revolt" against the British
># began considerably before the war ended.

>	But not while the end of the war was in doubt.

The "Revolt" was declared on 1 Feb 1944.  That was about four months 
before D-day, and before the outcome of the war on the eastern front
was clear.  I doubt if anyone will buy your argument.

Brendan.

Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast
From: faris@sarcasm.trl.OZ.AU (Aziz Faris)
Subject: Re: Prerequisite to negociations II
Reply-To: a.Faris@trl.oz.au 
Organization: Telecom Research Labs, Melbourne,Australia
Date: Fri, 6 Nov 1992 01:33:47 GMT

In article <Bx7BBE.556@newsflash.concordia.ca>, ilyess@Davinci.Concordia.CA (Ilyess Bdira) writes:
|> No it is not a fairy tale, it is a hypothetical situation.
|> I did not say the Islamists should become secular, I said that they
|> should allow their governments to make peace with Israel, Once that
|> happens, the U.S would not care VERY MUCH who is in power, and the
|> CIA will get lazy and those dictators might feel more pressure from
|> their people while getting less help from the CIA.
|> The only problem I can see is that the Mossad might still continue playing
|> its dirty tricks (like the ones they are playing in Egypt and Tunisia).
|> but if the Iranians beat the CIA, I am sure that Tunisians and Egyptians
|> could be able to beat the Mossad, in the long run. I will not hold my breath
|> though!

How could Islamists allow the leadership to make peace with Israel if they
do not get their noses of the political system and become secular?.

I do not know of devias activities the Mossad is playing in Egypt and Tunisia,
you should have said what they are doing.
 
|> 
|> I do not desagree with your last statement (IMHO,
|> Assad was more helpful to Israel than any other ruler.)
|> But they will choose Sadat over him any time!
|> 

How was Assad more helpful than any other ruler?. Israel cannot afford to make
peace with Syria, the Israelis' have charged Syrians of being terrorists and
even made a movie about us for bombing flight 103. No one knows who the hell
did it as of yet. Israel made peace with Egypt because it could not expand
into Egypt, they have their eyes set on Syria and Lebanon. Once the peace
talks come to an end, south Lebanon will be annexed just like the Golan. Then
they will need another 9 mile buffer zone.

Israel cannot afford to make peace with Syria and Lebanon for the following
reasons:

1. Had they made peace, they could not have become the 5th arms exporter.
2. Had they made peace they could not build a nuclear program, that is
largerly composed of Neutron Bombs. (read the May or June issue of IEEE
spectrum magazine, the one that discusses the destruction of the Iraqi program).
3. Had they made peace they cannot expand into Syria and Lebanon.
4. If they make peace with Syria and Lebanon, they will be competing with a 
an economic, political, and military power (50% of Syrias' population is under
25 years old, that's close to six million).

Syria under Assad had stayed afloat, even though the country was starved from
pressures emminating from the west and Israel. The turks built the largest dam
in the world on the Euphorates river with Saudi and Gulf money. The Euphorates
is Syrias' lifeline. They have exerted enormous economic blockades on Syria 
to bring it to its knees, they couldn't. Many other problems that exist in
Syria are largerly due to its people, not its government.

A.Faris 

Xref: sparky talk.politics.mideast:21924 soc.culture.arabic:4765
From: ilyess@ECE.Concordia.CA (Ilyess Bdira)
Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast,soc.culture.arabic
Subject: Is Assad dead?
Date: 7 Nov 92 14:06:37 GMT
Followup-To: talk.politics.mideast
Organization: ECE - Concordia University


I heard a strange piece of "news" this morning from unreliable
sources; That Assad is dead two to four days ago?
Anybody heard this rumor..
I hope it is not just some wishful thinking by the syrians (from
where I got this information) This kind of thing happened to Brejniev
many times before the real thing eventually happened.

I heard The next in line is even worse than Assad anyway.
From: aaldoubo@copper.denver.colorado.edu (Shaqeeqa)
Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast
Subject: Re: Question in Arabic (was: Re: EGYPT: LET MY....)
Date: 12 Nov 92 03:37:20 GMT
Organization: University of Colorado at Denver

In article <1992Nov9.203010.17734@trl.oz.au> a.Faris@trl.oz.au writes:
>In article <4301@copper.Denver.Colorado.EDU>, aaldoubo@copper.denver.colorado.edu (Ohm Salam) writes:
>  
>> Anisa
 	So, can we apply the meaning to Ms. Koukab Asharaq?  :-)
  
>You must restrict it to Koukab alsharq al awsat, she did not shine on
>the rest of the Asian continent.

:-) ... nor on the Western continent (yet).

A.

Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast
From: faris@sarcasm.trl.OZ.AU (Aziz Faris)
Subject: Re: Question in Arabic (was: Re: EGYPT: LET MY....)
Reply-To: a.Faris@trl.oz.au 
Organization: Telecom Research Labs, Melbourne,Australia
Date: Mon, 9 Nov 1992 20:30:10 GMT

In article <4301@copper.Denver.Colorado.EDU>, aaldoubo@copper.denver.colorado.edu (Ohm Salam) writes:
|> 
|> Of course ... I didn't mean to exclude other contributers to the
|> discussion.  Food for thought ya Ibaa.  :-)
|>  
|> Anisa
|> 	So, can we apply the meaning to Ms. Koukab Asharaq?  :-)
|>  

You must restrict it to Koukab alsharq al awsat, she did not shine on
the rest of the Asian continent.

A.Faris
Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast,soc.culture.arabic,soc.culture.lebanon
From: nabeel@sce.carleton.ca (Bulbul)
Subject: Re: Arithmetic Error (was Re: It's no Use (was Re: ...))
Organization: Carleton University
Date: Tue, 10 Nov 1992 21:30:33 GMT

I, nabeel@sce.carleton.ca (Bulbul) wrote:

>   My assumption was that one thousand Palestinians were killed and that
>p(k_p) = p(k_i) as Dave claimed, so you are solving for another problem.
   Sorry, I meant p(k_p) = 3p(k_i).

And about a peaceful exciting "jihad" Jareer said:

** iNa l^oyOna LatI fI .tarfihA .hawarOn
      qatalnanA thoMa lam yo.hyIna qatlAnA
      
[You know, he'd got some taste! **]

Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast,soc.culture.arabic,soc.culture.lebanon
From: ilyess@ECE.Concordia.CA (Ilyess Bdira)
Subject: Re: It's no Use (Was: Re: Challenging the Emir (LONG))
Organization: ECE - Concordia University
Date: Sun, 8 Nov 1992 18:54:56 GMT

In article <BxEqwB.2Iq@newsflash.concordia.ca> ilyess@ECE.Concordia.CA (Ilyess Bdira) writes:
>

>First of all your numbers are leadingly selective :  in total more than one
Did I make this many typos or something is happening?
Anyway I meant misleading

>>PLO and Palestinians have expressed concern publicly. As illustration:
...
>Of course the quote should be said by a Palestinian Israeli agent..
I meant would