HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: mcgrath@bvc.edu
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
Subject: Re: Frequency of Bear Encounters on Hiking Trails
Date: 15 Aug 92 16:28:56 CDT
Organization: Buena Vista College, Storm Lake, IA

In article <1992Aug14.091635.3126@regina.cs.uregina.ca>, craig@phenix.cc.uregina.ca (Craig Knelsen) writes:
> I just returned from spending two weeks camping/hiking in the Canadian
> Rockies (ie. Jasper, Banff, Yoho and Kootenay NPs, Mt. Robson PP). This
> being my third hiking venture into the Canadian Rockies, I was beginning to
> wander if there really were bears in the backcountry. I had seen one
> run across the highway once and that was it. 

On the subject of grizzlies: The September/October 1992 issue of Sierra 
magazine states that, "The grizzly population in the contiguous 48 states 
has dropped from an estimated 50,000 when Lewis and Clark trekked west
[1805] to fewer than 1,000 today.  Some 30,000 bears persist in Alaska, and 
more than 15,000 in Canada, but in the Lower 48 the once-wide-spread griz 
has been confined to a few small pockets of habitat centered around parks 
and wilderness areas in the northern Rockies." (p.61)

"North Cascades Region: An estimated 10 to 15 grizzlies have about 6 
million acres of habitat available west of the Columbia River along the 
Canadian border, including North Cascades National Park. (Another 6 million 
acres of contiguous habitat lie north of the border.) . . ." (p.59)

"Selkirk Mountains: About 35 bears inhabit a 1.3-million-acre recovery area 
at the southern end of the Selkirks." (p. 59)

"Cabinet Mountains-Yaak Valley: Some 20 bears have survived on 1.6 million 
acres in northwest Montana and Idaho, ranging from the Cabinet Mountains 
and the Yaak Valley up to the Canadian border." (p. 59)

"Northern Divide Region: Betwen 400 and 600 bears occupy 6.2 million acres 
of this recovery zone, which encompasses the Bob Marshall Wilderness and 
Glacier National Park." (p. 59)

"Selway-Bitterroot Region: There is no confirmed besar population in this 
3.4-million acre potential recovery area . . ." (p. 59)

"Yellowstone Region: A minimum of 228 grizzlies roam 6.1 million acres 
within the official recovery area, which includes Yelowstone and Grand 
Teton national parks and areas within six national forests." (p. 59)

The above excerpted article, "A Grizzly's Place" by Geoffrey O'Gara is 
quite interesting and informative--it has great bear pictures too!  Check 
it out and support the political efforts of the Sierra club and other 
environmental organizations. 

Away--
From: hens@snipe.cray.com (Tom Stephens)
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
Subject: Re: Moose vs. Elk
Date: 19 Aug 92 16:56:27 GMT
Article-I.D.: walter.1992Aug19.115627.29616
Organization: Cray Research, Inc.


In article <1405@yetti.UUCP>, french@cs.yorku.ca (Lori French) writes:
> 
>   Ok, so how about caribou?  I was under the impression that
>    elk and caribou were the same.   This could become confusing...
> 
>

No, its really not that confusing.  Moose are moose, elk are elk and caribou are caribou. 
For that matter white-tailed deer are white-tailed deer, black-tailed deer are black-tailed deer,
mule deer are mule deer, bighorn sheep are bighorn sheep, goats are goats and antelope are
antelope.  I know I missed some.  


Now it you really want to know what all of these amimals are I suggest that a qualified zoologist
post an article giving us all the Latin names, and we can all call them by those. (yuck)

If it comes to that, I'd rather be wrong or confused.
--
---------------------------------
Tom Stephens
CCN,  Chippewa Falls
Cray Research Inc.  hens@cray.com
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
From: gbt@cray.com (Greg Titus)
Subject: Re: No dogs in Natl Parks
Organization: Cray Research, Inc.
Distribution: usa
Date: 21 Aug 92 13:34:10 CDT

In article <1992Aug21.175840.964@eos.arc.nasa.gov> dencisco@eos.arc.nasa.gov (David Paul Encisco) writes:
>
>With all the National Forest Land you shouldn't be too hard press
>to find someplace to pack with your dog. You could probably take
>a cow into the National Forest if you wanted.

Not necessary, at least in New Mexico (and, I suspect, everywhere
else).  Around here the National Forests come pre-cowed for your
convenience.

greg
-- 
--------------------------------------------------------------
Greg Titus (gbt@zia.cray.com)             Compiler Group (Ada)
Cray Research, Inc.                               Santa Fe, NM
Opinions expressed herein (such as they are) are purely my own.
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
From: jjh00@outs.ccc.amdahl.com (Joel J. Hanes)
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
Subject: Re: Moose & Elk
Date: 18 Aug 92 19:49:20 GMT
Reply-To: jjh00@OUTS.ccc.amdahl.com (Joel J. Hanes)
Organization: Amdahl Corporation, Sunnyvale CA


  rhaar@albert.cs.gmr.com writes (incorrectly):
>
> The North AMerican elk are more correctly called by the Indian name
> wapiti - at least that is what a naturalist at RMNP told us.

I hope you misunderstood.

Wapiti is the Native American name for the Pronghorn "Antelope",
a much smaller animal than Moose, American Elk, or European
Elk.   Wapiti have distinctive short vertical antlers with
sharp tips, and vivid rump patches.  American Elk have much
larger curved antlers, and the male has a heavy rough
shaggy coat about the neck and shoulders that bears no
resemblance to the sleek wapiti at any time of year.

Source: A Field Guide to the Mammals (of North America)
        RT Petersen Field Guide series

---
Joel Hanes


PS.  Most of the barroom "jackalopes" I've seen have been
     constructed from large jackrabbit heads and small wapiti
     antlers.  American Elk antlers on a jackrabbit would
     be a serious size mismatch.
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
From: cyeomans@ms.uky.edu (Charles Yeomans)
Subject: Re: MSR Stoves - Whisperlite Int'l. vs. X-
    <BGLENDEN.92Aug18110634@colobus.cv.nrao.edu>
Date: Tue, 18 Aug 1992 22:38:22 GMT
Organization: University Of Kentucky, Dept. of Math Sciences

In article <BGLENDEN.92Aug18110634@colobus.cv.nrao.edu> bglenden@colobus.cv.nrao.edu (Brian Glendenning) writes:
>
>We pack our Peak 1 inside and worry about it leaking; consequently we
>always take along a fuel bottle. Is it safe to pack a filled Peak 1?
>
>Brian
>--
>       Brian Glendenning - National Radio Astronomy Observatory
>bglenden@nrao.edu          Charlottesville Va.           (804) 296-0286

Sure - although I suppose it depends on what one means by safe.  I've
never had a problem with the Peak 1 leaking.  If it won't leak
whe the fuel is under pressure, then it probzbly won't leak when
it's bouncing around in your pack.

Charles Yeomans
cyeomans@ms.uky.edu
yeomans@austin.onu.edu
From: sjp@hpuerca.atl.hp.com (Steve Phillips)
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
Subject: Re: Re: Goretex Tents?
Date: 14 Aug 92 20:04:59 GMT
Organization: the HP Response Center, Atlanta

Sierra Designs makes a version of their Clip Flashlight tent that uses a
special small-weave fabric to repel water yet allows air to pass through -
called the "Flash-Magic".
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
From: jreece@sousa.intel.com (John Reece)
Subject: Re: Bear Identification
Keywords: bears
Reply-To: jreece@sousa.intel.com
Organization: Intel - Information Technologies
Date: Mon, 17 Aug 1992 16:10:01 GMT

In article <scott.713899114@phylo>, scott@phylo.life.uiuc.edu (Scott Howard) writes:
> Telling the difference between Black Bears and Grizzlies is very easy-

A grizzlie's profile is "indented", i.e., it has a distinctive brow.

A black bear's profile is more ratlike.


------------------------------------------------------------------------
John Reece			"Oop. Ack. Pfffthpt"	
Not an Intel spokesman 			- Bill the Cat 
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
From: jreece@sousa.intel.com (John Reece)
Subject: Re: Frequency of Bear Encounters on Hiking Trails
Keywords: bears encounters hiking
Reply-To: jreece@sousa.intel.com
Organization: Intel - Information Technologies
Date: Mon, 17 Aug 1992 15:31:37 GMT

In article <1992Aug14.091635.3126@regina.cs.uregina.ca>, craig@phenix.cc.uregina.ca (Craig Knelsen) writes:

> I have been reading this newsgroup for a few months and don't recall seeing
> any posts about bear encounters on the hiking trails. Do people just not
> bother with posting articles about bear encounters and how they dealt with it
> or are encounters really that infrequent and of little interest to others?

Shucks, I was just waiting for someone to bring the subject up.

I had a chance trail encounter just 3 weekends ago. I was hiking solo
from Wishon Reservoir to Tehipite Valley in Kings Canyon.  I'm
humping along, staring about at the ground right in front of my feet.  All of 
a sudden I hear something crashing around and clawing at a tree
just off to my right.  I look up, and this black bear is frantically
trying to get to the top of a short snag about 20m off the trail.
I decide to keep walking ahead, and when I get to the point where
my back would be to the bear, I turn around and start backing away.
The bear is peering around the side of the tree, much like squirrels do.
When it sees that I've turned around it gets this "Please Hammer, don't
hurt me!" look on its face, jumps down, and tears off in the opposite
direction.  

This was encounter #4 in 25 years in the Sierra, involving a total of 5-6
adults and 2-3 cubs.

A good example of the way unhabituated bears are supposed to act. This area 
only sees a party every couple of days, and half of them seem to be on
horseback with strongboxes for their food.


> I realize that bears are unpredictable and people don't generally relish the
> thought (myself included) of encountering one in the backcountry. Yet, I
> can't help wonder if the posting of such encounters may alleviate the
> anxiety and fear some may have of going into the backcountry. Or is everyone
> here seasoned backcountry travellers who wish to handle this kind of
> situation in their own way?
> -- 
> 
> Craig Knelsen		craig@phenix.cc.uregina.ca
> 			Craig_Knelsen@f20.n140.z1.fidonet.org

-- 
------------------------------------------------------------------------
John Reece			"Oop. Ack. Pfffthpt"	
Not an Intel spokesman 			- Bill the Cat 
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
From: dencisco@eos.arc.nasa.gov (David Paul Encisco)
Subject: Re: Oregon Wallowas...pack animals
Organization: NASA Ames Research Center
Distribution: usa
Date: Fri, 21 Aug 1992 16:39:34 GMT

mtnbiker@singletrack.EBay.Sun.COM (Daniel Abernethy) writes:

>Why not ban hoofed beasts and use wheels instead???  

Well I think the warranted argument for "hoofed beasts" is that
they allow some people to get into the backcountry who, because
of physical (or mental) disabilities, would not be able to make
the trip. Biking doesn't propose a solution for these people.

>For wilderness SAR a bike can cover/penetrate/search more area and 
>foot bound searchers in a much shorter time, enhacing chances of a 
>lost persons survival.

This is a very interesting point, although when people are lost
they're not typically on the trail.

>Imagine: 
>A 40 mile (80mi.RT) bikepack trip on an old stagecoach route for the weekend.
>In an area of rolling hills, mountainous plateau, etc... (not rugged ^^^^^^^^
>switchback trails).  I don't think a person would find it very pleasurable
>to travel even 15 miles in one day in the backcountry, from the reading
>I have been doing on the net 7-10 miles is tough.

I'm a little confused here. Is it important to cover many miles, or to
enjoy the miles you've covered? It's a personal preference whether the
end justifies the means or the means justifies the end. I find it very
"pleasurable" to travel 15 miles in one day on foot. It largely depends
on the shape I'm in.

>I guess that a bike in motion is seen as a threat.

Animals probably don't have enough time to catch your scent when you're
flying by them on your bike.

>I yield the trails that are multi-use to
>other users all the time EVERY time.  

Thanks! Since I do many day hikes in the Santa Cruz Mountains I
encounter many many mountain bikers. Fortunately my only bad mishap occurred
when a guy attempted to avoid my brother and I on a blind turn. The
guy ended up in the bushes with some minor scrapes. The thing that
bothered me about this, after we helped the guy up, is that he blamed us!
I should of smashed the guy's bike to pieces!

Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
From: blagdon@engin.umich.edu (Kenneth James Clark )
Subject: Re: Razors in wilderness
Date: Fri, 14 Aug 92 13:15:07 EDT
Organization: University of Michigan Engineering, Ann Arbor

In article <1992Aug10.040709.7503@nezsdc.icl.co.nz> derek@nezsdc.icl.co.nz (Derek Tearne) writes:
>
>It seems to me that a battery powered electric razor would have less 
>environmental impact in the wilderness than a disposable wet razor.  The 
>wet razor requires soap and/or an aerosol of foam also irresponsible people 
>may dispose of their razor badly.  The electric razor leaves no extra 
>chemicals behind and is removed from the wilderness at the end of the trip.  
>It is a little more noisy though.

I've been told that razors require various goop to shave with.  I have to
note that I've been shaving for many years with only cold water.  Yes, I
get a very good shave (even according to an Air Force Drill sargent), and
no, it doesn't hurt.  

If I did shave in the backcountry (I don't), I would rather leave wiskers
only and make no noise as I did.  You don't need all that crap to shave.

>On balance however I agree with the other comment that shaving in the 
>wilderness should be illegal.  You should surrender razing irons at the 
>entrance to the area and pick them up as you leave - allowing you to
>shave before returning to the industrial wastelands/dark satanic mills.

Better to laugh and ridicule people shaving in the backcountry if you 
must.  Leave the laws for civilization.  Note that electrics are already
prohibited (as noted previously).

Ken
From: mcgrath@bvc.edu
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
Subject: Proletarian Coffee
Date: 14 Aug 92 19:07:54 CDT
Organization: Buena Vista College, Storm Lake, IA

Am I the only dork whose light weight coffee maker is a ziplock bag filled 
with Folger's Crystals?
From: mcgrath@bvc.edu
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
Subject: Re: Replacing metal Thermarest valves
Date: 14 Aug 92 18:54:24 CDT
Organization: Buena Vista College, Storm Lake, IA

In article <1992Aug13.112221.1@research.ptt.nl>, walvdrk@research.ptt.nl (Kees van der Wal +31 70 332 6295) writes:
> In article <122440161@hpfcso.FC.HP.COM>, ajs@hpfcso.FC.HP.COM (Alan
> Silverstein) writes: 
> 
>> If you own an older Thermarest mattress with a metal valve...  Write to:
>> 
>>     Cascade Designs
>>     4000 1st Avenue S.
>>     Seattle, WA  98134
>> 
>>     206-583-0583
>> 
>> and request a plastic replacement.
> 
> What's the advantage of the plastic version?
> 
> Regards, <kees>


I hope the advantage is that the plastic type does not stick and its rubber 
washers stay in alignment or are nonexistent.  My thermarest performed 
flawlessly for almost ten years and then the valve stuck and wouldn't close 
(even after soaking in WD-40).  I bought a replacement metal valve a couple 
of years ago, but this season the rubber washer which provides the seal for 
the air started to act up and fail at the most inoportune times (midnight 
after hiking all day and in need of rest etc.).  Anyway, thanks for the 
address and revelation that there are plastic valves which I assume are an 
improvemnt.  I'll be ordering mine next week!    

Away--
From: johnf@Auspex.COM (John Fereira)
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
Subject: Re: Oregon Wallowas...pack animals
Keywords: alpine lakes - where?
Date: 14 Aug 92 20:48:19 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: Auspex Systems, Inc.

In article <1992Aug13.195208.22980@colorado.edu> stjohn@newton.Colorado.EDU (MATTHEW STJOHN) writes:
|Tells you how much our federal government know :).

What do you expect from a group called "the department of interior"?

-- 
+============================================================================++
| John Fereira            "Is that all you ever think about?"                |
| johnf@auspex.com                                                           |
+============================================================================++
From: asmcclan@gothamcity.jsc.nasa.gov (Andrew S. McClanahan [DH4])
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
Subject: Re: Acadia Report & A Controvercy
Date: 20 Aug 1992 00:06:39 GMT
Organization: Software Technology Lab - NASA/Johnson Space Center

> Here's the controversial part of this post:  In Bar Harbor, the
> largest town near the park, many of the stores had little information
> sheets printed up next to the cash register.  They begin with "Please
> Don't Buy Souvenirs In The Park!" and continue on to explain how the
> money from sales made within the park don't go to Acadia.  "These
> shops are operated by a slick business corporation, and millions of
> dollars spent there primarily enrich a few corporate shareholders."

Most national parks have a natural history association.  This is a non
profit group that publishes books and pamphlets and promotes the park
from a conservation and naturalist perspective.  National parks also
contract out the concessions, like the gift shops, lodges, and
restaurants.  They may sell the same books, but they are run for
profit, typically by a large corporation like the National Parks
Concessions (what an original name).

In Big Bend National Park, both these organizations exist.
I am a member of the Big Bend National History Association, which
entitles me to 15% discount on items bought through them.  Since I
normally spend $200 per visit on books, maps, and videos, the discount
is nice.  But what is important is the beneficiary of the proceeds.
BBNHA does much more for the park than NPC.  They hold excellent
seminars and field trips.  They sell mail order.  They answer
questions.  They are staffed by volunteers with a genuine interest in
the park.

To benefit the nonprofit organization, ask before you buy.  They
typically run the gift shop in the ranger station or visitor center.
They may have a discount that saves you money including the
membership, plus you will receive an informative newsletter.
The for profit sales would be in the lodge, restaurant, or gas
station.  When I tried to use my BBNHA card for a discount at the
lodge, the response was "We don't honor that."  The membership card is
a good litmus test.

It makes a difference to me.  It might make a difference to you.

Scott McClanahan
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
From: Glenn Stauffer <stauffer@cc.swarthmore.edu>
Subject: Re: Moose & Elk
X-Xxmessage-Id: <A6BB32CE04054333@mac1.beardsley.swarthmore.edu>
X-Xxdate: Fri, 21 Aug 92 04:54:54 GMT
Organization: Swarthmore College Computing Center
X-Useragent: Nuntius v1.1.1d9
Date: Sat, 22 Aug 1992 03:55:26 GMT

In article <Aug18.163628.39397@yuma.ACNS.ColoState.EDU> John Cooley,
johnc@yuma.acns.colostate.edu writes:
>Much to my astonishment, my dictionary (Webster's Ninth New Collegiate
>Dictionary, Merriam-Webster, Inc., Springfield, MA, USA) also gives "elk"
>as a synonymous cross-reference for moose.  I am not familiar with this
>usage, but the other definitions for both moose and elk are clearer. 
There
>is no question that "moose" and "elk" are common names for different
>animals in the formal taxonomy.
>

I have one of those French-English picture dictionaries that shows a
picture of a moose
and refers to it as an American Elk.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------
------------------
Glenn Stauffer
stauffer@cc.swarthmore.edu

CAUTION: At certain times of certain days, the above may be an expression
of wine-induced
babble. "Wine without Fear"  "Wine without Guilt"  "Don't let Anyone get
your goat"
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
-------------------
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
From: hens@snipe.cray.com (Tom Stephens)
Subject: Re: No dogs in Natl Parks
Organization: Cray Research, Inc.
Date: 21 Aug 92 11:14:54 CDT


In article <1992Aug21.155447.11790@unocal.com>, stgprao@st.unocal.COM (Richard Ottolini) writes:
> I see people taking dogs all the time in national parks and to the backcountry,
> so this regulation must be little enforced.


Oh that's just great.  Now another stereotype is born. 
--
---------------------------------
Tom Stephens
CCN,  Chippewa Falls
Cray Research Inc.  hens@cray.com
From: diverson@phys.ksu.edu (David Iverson)
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
Subject: handy tip: priming MSR whisperlite
Date: 21 Aug 1992 17:46:15 GMT
Organization: Kansas State University
NNTP-Posting-Host: bohr.phys.ksu.edu

I got this neat tip from Irv (last name forgotten) whose a member of the
Genesee Valley Chapter of the Adirondack Mountain Club:

Instead of priming your MSR Whisperlite with white-gas from the fuel bottle,
carry along a small squeeze bottle of alcohol.  Just fill up the priming cup
and let go, start the stove as usual after the alcohol has burned off. It's
really neat and clean, and gets the job done (I think it does the job better
than white-gas)  The flame is small and clean, doesn't freak you out when
you're too close to a vestibule or rain-fly, it heats up darn nice and best
off all, the stove doesn't get all gunked up with tons of soot from the gas.

My results from a weeklong backpacking trip in Colorado are that 2 oz. of
alcohol is enough to prime your stove about 20 times.  

And you can't even ask some question like, "What if you run out?" or "What
if it doesn't work in X situation?" because you can always go back to the
white-gas in case of some failure.

Try it, I know you'll like it.

-diverson@phys.ksu.edu




--
diverson@phys.ksu.edu
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
From: jzh2485@zeus.tamu.edu (HINTON, JOHNNY ZANE)
Subject: Re: South Dakota Backcountry
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41    
Organization: Texas A&M University, Academic Computing Services
Distribution: na
Date: Wed, 12 Aug 1992 13:28:00 GMT

>I have heard very good things from a number of people about backcountry
>in the Badlands and Black Hills.  Of course the drive wouldn't be quite
> 

Custer State Park is nice as is Harney Peak.   Great fishing in Lake 
Deerfield.   Harney Peak, I believe, is the highest peak east of the
Rocky Mountains.
				John Z
From: ray@gecko.cis.ohio-state.edu (william c ray)
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
Subject: Water sterilization w/ iodine
Date: 13 Aug 92 17:07:28 GMT
Distribution: na
Organization: The Ohio State University, Department of Computer and Information Science


  I'm sure I have the info somewhere, but I can't seem to find it...
I recently acquired more iodine crystals that I know what to do with
and I thought I'd throw some in a bottle, and try the x drops of 
iodine-water per quart method, rather than buying new tablets for
an upcoming trip.  Would someone please fill me in on what that
x should be?

thanks,

Will Ray
ray@cis.ohio-state.edu
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
From: JB <jbl@mesaadm.cre.nt.com>
Subject: Info Requested, Far North Minnesota
Organization: Censored
X-Useragent: Nuntius v1.1b3
Date: Fri, 14 Aug 1992 17:21:33 GMT

We're planning yet another trip to the BWCA, this time to an area called
"Tip of the Arrowhead".  Question:  why is it called this??  No books
mention the origin of the name, and though I can guess it's cause the
area looks like an arrowhead, well, which area?  Help is truly
appreciated.
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
From: longlegs.systems@mhs.unc.edu (Joel Dunn)
Subject: re: Wanted, good 4-5 day East Coast hike
Organization: UNC Office of Information Technology
Date: Thu, 13 Aug 1992 15:53:40 GMT

The correct spelling for the NC area is "Pisgah".  The Pisgah NF is very 
nice, and a good 35-40 mile hike would be the Art Loeb trail that goes 
thru Pisgah and the Shining Rock Wilderness area of Pisgah.  Very pretty,
high mountains (for the East coast, up to 6200ft), open with lots of views.

I've never hiked the whole Art Loeb trail, but I've wanted to do so.  I've
been out of serious backpacking since the family came along, but when the
kids get bigger, we're going to get back into it.

-Joel Dunn