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Date:         Thu, 10 Sep 1992 18:27:30 CDT
Reply-To:     Cliff Manis <cmanis@CSOFTEC.CSF.COM>
From:         Cliff Manis <cmanis@CSOFTEC.CSF.COM>
Subject:      Are you researching info about SHIPS ?
Comments: To: "(Genealogy Information)" <ROOTS-L@VM1.NoDak.EDU>

"Ships"  and messages about people needing help ! !

During the past two months, we have had several readers send me
Email about some "Ships Information" and some of it was posted
on ROOTS-L, but I am posting this 17k file, and possible help
for any and all who want to read it.

This is part 1 or 2, and I will post the next one sometime in
October/November if their is enough interest ! !

Several of the readers here are researching information about
ships, and below is a copy of the msg which I posted in July92.

>> Why  is it so hard to find information about the old ships, the
>> dates they traveled, where to ports, where from ports ? ?
>>
>> For those who are interested, I will be collecting data posted
>> to the ROOTS-L Mailing List.... and posting a message sometime ...
>> about who is searching for information on SHIPS.
>> Please post messages here.
>>
>> Ship names, dates (if known), ports(if known).
>> If interested, send a message ! ! ! !

I think WE should continue to post information here about researching SHIPS
in an effort to help all the readers.

Below are some of the answers that I received, with the Email
addresses of the researchers, or those sending the message.


>> From: Linda Erkelens <LINDA%UCSFVM.BITNET@VM1.NoDak.EDU>
I would appreciate the smallest bit of information on the two ships.
  "Neptune" came to America in 1754 probably Philadelphia
  "Polly"   came to America in 1765 probably Philadelphia

-==-=-=-=-=-

>> From: Robert Thomin <durango@TSO.UC.EDU>
Subject:      ships:
i contacted the peabody museum,east india square,salem,mass01970 andthe
university of baltimore,sshsa collection,langsdale library,1420 maryland
ave.,baltimore,maryland 21201-5779, and they researched the ship i
was looking for and gave me a lot of helpful information.i also called the
national archives andd they also researched a ship for me,they are about
two to three weeks on doing the research but they will send you a letter
 even if they do not find the information that you are seeking.if you need
more information than this please contact me.
e-mail   durango@tso.uc.edu

-=-=-=-=-

>> Reply-To: Tom Lincoln <lincoln@RAND.ORG>
Subject:      Re: Info about SHIPS ? ? a piggy-back question..
Looking for a merchant ship "WHITE SWAN" which must have gone from
England (or Scotland) to Philadelphia, Newcastle DE, or Baltimore
in the summer of 1784....

-=-=-=-=-
>> Reply-To: Tom Lincoln <lincoln@RAND.ORG>
Here is a starter set of where to look...  from melvyl

18. Passenger and immigration lists bibliography, 1538-1900 : being a guide
to published lists of arrivals in the United States and Canada / edited by
P.  William Filby. 2d ed.  Detroit, Mich. :  Gale Research Co., c1988.

14. Filby, P. William, 1911-
Passenger and immigration lists index : a guide to published arrival
records of about 500,000 passengers who came to the United States and
Canada in the seventeenth, eighteenth, and nineteenth centuries / edited...
1st ed. Detroit, Mich. : Gale Research Co., c1981.

13. Germans to America : lists of passengers arriving at U.S. ports /
edited by Ira A.  Glazier and P.  William Filby.  Wilmington, Del. :
Scholarly Resources, c1988-<c1992 >.

-=-=-=-=-

>> From lmsc5.is.lmsc.lockheed.com!6175190 Mon Jul 27 08:41:36 1992
Subject:      SHIPS - Information
Comments:     Converted from PROFS to RFC822 format by PUMP V2.2
I am interested in information about ships, especially from Germany. Don't
have name of ship, still trying to narrow down actual dates.
Diane

-=-=-=-=

>> Reply-To: "Richard A. Ensminger" <ensmingr@STL-07SIMA.ARMY.MIL>
Subject:      Ship snips
Here are some bits of informatin on ships and their voyages:

THISTLE (bilander type of vessel)
Master: George Houston
Route (both voyages):
     Rotterdam-Cowes, England-Philadelphia
Arrived:
     19 June 1730
        Aug/Sep 1738    142 passengers from "Darmstadt, Zweybrecht"
                        (42 men, 36 boys, 64 females)


NEPTUNE
Master: Captain Ware
Route: Rotterdam-Cowes, England-Philadelphia
Arrived: 30 September 1754    339 passengers from
                              "Darmstadt, Zweibrucken"

SAMUEL of LONDON (not sure if that is the whole name of the vessel)
Master: Hugh Percy
Route: Rotterdam-Deal, England-Philadelphia
Arrived: 17 August 1733   291 passengers, all "Palatines"
                          ( 89 males, 16 and over
                            86 females, 16 and over
                            54 males under 16
                            62 females under 16)

PHOENIX
Master: John Mason
Route: Rotterdam-Cowes, England-Philadelphia
Arrived: 28 August 1750   339 passengers

EUROPA
Arrived: Philadelphia 20 November 1741

Please note the intermediate stop in England on most of these
voyages. This was because England was trying to control trade with
the Colonies at this time. All vessels bound for the colonies were
required to stop at a British port before they could stop at a
colonial port. For the voyages originating in Europe, the English
ports of Cowes and Deal were two of the more common places.
Regards, Rich

-=-=-=-=-=

>> From SSD.intel.com!thorin Mon Jul 27 12:41:47 1992
>> From: Ron Thorin <thorin@SSD.intel.com>
I was reading the net news when I read your article on finding information on
ships.  I am interested in S.S. Saxonia, Cunard Lines, sailing out of London
to Boston as the port of call.  Date is 1903.  What I am looking for is to
find out if it is possible to get a picture of the ship.  This is the vessel
that my grandparents came to the U.S. from London.  Could you possibly lead
me to the proper place / contact to see if it is possible to get a picture of
the ship?
Ron Thorin
thorin@SSD.intel.com

-=-=-=-=-

>> Reply-To: Robert Thomin <durango@TSO.UC.EDU>
I will give you the information that I have on researching the ships
our ancestors came over on.I have contacted the Peabody Museum in Salem
Mass. and they were very helpful.If your ancestors came over in the early
1800's the ship was probably a sailing ship.If you call them they will
look up the information and send you a letter out in about a week.They
are very prompt in everything they tell you or do.They sent me images
of the ship that I was interested in so I could order prints.
Their address is.
                            Peabody Museum
                            East India Square
                            Salem,Mass. 01970
                            (508)745-1876
                         fax(508)744-6776

Other museums are:
                            Mariners'Museum Library
                            Newport News,Va. 23606
                            (804)595-0368

                            Mystic Seaport Museum
                            Blunt White Library
                            Mystic,Ct. 06355
                            (203)572-0711

                            University of Baltimore
                            Langsdale Library
                            Steamship Historical Society of America
                            1420 N. Charles Street
                            Baltimore,Maryland 21201-5779
                            (410)625-3134
Several books that show a lot of ships and information:
                            "They Came in Ships"
                             Author:John P. Colletta

                             "Ships of Our Ancestors"
                              Author:Michael J. Anuta
Also you could call the National Archives in Washington,DC.
                            Fax:(202) 523-3049
                                (202) 523-4357

I believe if you try these,I think you will be amazed at the information
you will recieve.
durango@tso.uc.edu
Robert Thomin

-=-=-=-=-

>> From ddif.enet.dec.com!schoeller Tue Jul 28 14:12:37 1992
From: Dick Schoeller - <schoeller@ddif.enet.dec.com>
Subject: Re: Info about SHIPS ? ?
This is only negative information, but it may help eliminate some searches.
Strassburger and Hinke list 6 ships named Patience (1748-1753) but none in
the early 1800's.  However, that book only covers ships which have a
substantial number of German immigrants or which sailed originally from a
German port.
Dick

-=-=-=-=-=

>> From alux2.att.com!krd Wed Jul 29 10:43:13 1992
Original-From: krd@rdsunb (K. R. Dietzel)

Just as a random brain flash about ships:
There is a book that I have used fairly often over the years called
something like "Immigrants to America" or "Immigrants to America through
the port of Philadelphia" (I will look it up next library trip). Anyhow,
it contains ships names along with the captains name and passenger list.
It usually has the last ports of call also. I mention this book for a reason.

1.Most ships from Europe list "last from Cowes" as the last port of call.
  They usually stopped there to reprovision. Someone said it was for a
  political reason but this practice continued way past the end of the
  revolutionary war. It probably was political in the beginning but became
  a good place to stop to take on fresh water and perishables before the
  "big hop" across the Atlantic. You should really know the "home port"
  of the ship to be sure you have the right one.
2.The captains name is also important because some ships names were very
  popular.
3.A ships name could be changed when it changed owners, so the same
  ship could be called several names during its lifetime and, of course,
  the ships captain could change also.
4.A good description of a ship should contain the ship name, the captain,
  the date, and the home port. Sounds like an impossibility doesn't it.
  Well, fortunately, a lot of ships were unique in name and we can be
  fairly sure of them by name alone. The others take some research.

It might be a good project to go through the ship passenger list books and
compile a index of ships that were mainly used for passenger transport.
Sounds like a great project for someone. I might even think about it!
What I really need is another project!! NOT!
Karl R. (Bob) Dietzel  krd@alux2.att.com

-=-=-=-==-

>> Reply-To: Tom Lincoln <lincoln@IRIS.RAND.ORG>
Sarah (Montefiore) and George Mitchell left England for
Pennsylvania some (short) time after their wedding on May 13
1784 on the ship 'Wight Swan' [Lloyd's lists 140 tons, built
1773 at Piscatiqua (Portsmouth NH), Guille & Company, London,
owners], and went west to Pittsburgh....

Until recently I thought she was the "White Swan" Ah Romance
and the flaws of oral history...

Does anyone have access to newspaper records of merchant ship
landings in Philadelphia, New Castle, or (possibly) Baltimore
in the summer or fall of 1784? Is there any record of the
arrival of the "Wight Swan"?
Tom     Don't Wight.... E-Mail {:-))

-=-=-=-=-=-

Date:         Fri, 14 Aug 1992 10:45:22 EDT
>> Reply-To: "Sharon L Palmateer" <ASDSLP%ALBNYVM1.BITNET@VM1.NoDak.EDU>
    I cannot find an entry in Filby's Passengers and Immigrants List for
PALMATIER?  Can someone suggest where else I might look to see how or when the
family came to the US?  There are dozens of Palmatiers up and down the Hudson
River.  Did they stem from the same family?  There is 'PALMENTIER', could mine
be a derivative?

    Filby's does not have any listings for HOSFORD, either.  Obviously, I need
help.  What else might I look for?  What is the origin of the name?
        Sharon

-=-=-=-=-=

>> Reply-To: "Christine M. Darby" <cmdarby@GIDNEY.OSWEGO.EDU>
Subject:      Passenger lists
A comment was posted recently about using passenger lists.  I also have
had little success using the major lists.  Of the dozen plus families I'm
actively ssearching I've yet to one.  The surname will be found but not
the individual.  Have used Filby's, Germans to America, Famine Immigrants
and many of the smaller volumes.  Dates range from probably 1630/40 to
1910, include early settlers, Irish famine, Germans.
Is it possible to have searches done for you at the National ARchives.
I'm down to that.  Sometimes I think they just dropped in.  Ideas anyone.
Thanks
Chris Darby

-=-=-=-=-=-

>> Reply-To: Lisa Oberg <lisanne@U.WASHINGTON.EDU>
Interestingly enough, I have had a great deal of success using the
_Germans to America_ series and I never expected that I would.  The
ancestors I was searching for all came from Luxembourg and I have thus far
found everyone who immigrated to the U.S. during the time period the
indexes covers that I was seeking.  I don't know if it is dumb luck or
what!  The spellings have even been fairly accurate.  The passenger lists
included in the series are based on whether or not there were passengers
whose nationality was identified as German on board a particular ship.
Many libraries with genealogical collections have this series and it is
worth a shot anyway for those people with ancestors who emigrated from
western Europe.  Since many ships leaving Le Havre, Amsterdam, etc also
stopped at English ports many UK passengers also are included.
Lisa Oberg	lisanne@u.washington.edu

On Wed, 19 Aug 1992, Christine M. Darby wrote:
> A comment was posted recently about using passenger lists.  I also have
> had little success using the major lists.  Of the dozen plus families I'm
> actively ssearching I've yet to one.  The surname will be found but not
> the individual.  Have used Filby's, Germans to America, Famine Immigrants
> and many of the smaller volumes.  Dates range from probably 1630/40 to
> 1910, include early settlers, Irish famine, Germans.
>
> Is it possible to have searches done for you at the National ARchives.
> Chris Darby

-=-=-=-=-=

>> Reply-To: Lisa Oberg <lisanne@u.washington.edu>
Yesterday I posted a message about my success using the _Germans to
America_ series and I received a request for more information.  So...here
is a complete citation to the series and also the indexing coverage for
all of the individual volumes to date.  The original series was for the
time period 1850 to 1855 (vol 1-9) but the series has since continued up to
1870 and it is still being added to to my knowledge.

Germans to America:  Lists of Passengers Arriving at U.S. Ports.  24 vols.
Edited by Ira A. Glazier & P. William Filby.  Scholarly Resources Inc.,
Wilmington, Del.  copyright 1988-     .

Vol:	Date:		Through		Vol:	Date:		Through:
 1	Jan 1850	May 1851	13	Aug 1859	Dec 1860
 2	May 1851	Jun 1852	14	Jan 1861	May 1863
 3	Jun 1852	Sep 1852	15	Jun 1863	Oct 1864
 4	Sep 1852	May 1853	16	Nov 1864	Nov 1865
 5	May 1853	Oct 1853	17	Nov 1865	Jun 1866
 6	Oct 1853	May 1854	18	Jun 1866	Dec 1866
 7	May 1854	Aug 1854	19	Jan 1867	Aug 1867
 8	Aug 1854	Dec 1854	20	Aug 1867	May 1868
 9	Dec 1854	Dec 1855	21	May 1868	Sep 1868
10	Jan 1856	Apr 1857	22	Oct 1868	May 1869
11	Apr 1857	Nov 1857	23	Jun 1869	Dec 1869
12	Nov 1857	Jul 1859	24	Jan 1870	Dec 1870

-=-=-=-=-=-

>> Reply-To: Robert Paul Monschke <Robert.Monschke@ENG.SUN.COM>
My ancestors came through the port of Galveston Texas on
October 4-5, 1884 according to my several of my relatives
naturalization records.

Family recollections/history is that they came from the port
of Hamburg to Galveston.

I have search the Hamburg passenger list from April, 1994
until December, 1884 and not found any record.

The Galveston ship records were destroyed by the hurricane
in 1900.  I have checked the New York ship records and determined
that they did not stop there.

What I would like to know is what were the major ship routes
from Breman and Hamburg to Galveston.

Were there any which were direct from Hamberg or Bremen to
Galveston?

What ports might they have stopped at "other than New York" on
the way to Galveston.
Paul

-=-=-=-=-=


>> Reply-To: Norbert Bambach <usr4656a@TSO.UC.EDU>
Galveston's Texas Seaport Museum has a computerized database
that allows visitors to look up information about immigrants who
entered the US through Galveston from 1846-1920.  The museum opened
October, 1991.  I don't believe they do searches for you.  They are
looking for photos of immigrants who came through Galveston.
Texas Seaport Museum Immigration Project
2106 Strand
Galveston, TX 77550

-=-=-=-=-=-=

>> Reply-To: Robert Thomin <durango@TSO.UC.EDU>
If anyone would like more information on the ship your ancestors came over
on call Angie S. Vandereedt at the National Archives.The telephone number
is (202) 501-5395. She will mail your the information free of charge and
she is very polite and helpful.

-=-=-=-=-=-=

>> From pucc.Princeton.EDU!FRURBB51.BITNET!RIGAUT Thu Sep 10 10:13:06 1992
Subject: Ships
As you offered to collect info concerning SHIPS, here is the ship I'd love
to know more about (= the one on which Peter Rivinac arrived in the USA !) :
"Statesman" -- July 13, 1852 -- Le Havre (France) -> New York.
Jean Paul Rigaut             University Paris 7, France
rigaut@frurbb51

/end of "SHIPS part 1 of ?" file....////

Cliff Manis         K4ZTF        Manis/Manes Family History
Researching: MANIS MANES WHITEHORN CANTER BIRD FRANCIS NEWMAN
USMAIL:   P. O. Box 33937, San Antonio, Texas  78265-3937
BITNET:   cmanis%csoftec.csf.com@NDSUVM1  Caretaker of GENEALOG
INTERNET: cmanis@csoftec.csf.com
 ! !  Generally, It is easier to obtain forgiveness than permission  ! !
  Standard Disclaimer:  We are not associated with anyone. (PERIOD). (.)