From: magus@drktowr.chi.il.us (Louis Giliberto)
Newsgroups: comp.org.eff.talk
Subject: Re: Time For.... (was US Makes Commercial Software Piracy a Felony)
Date: 8 Nov 92 05:52:34 GMT
Organization: DarkTower Software
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1 PL6]

Mike Godwin (mnemonic@eff.org) wrote:
: In article <9211024810@drktowr.chi.il.us> magus@drktowr.chi.il.us (Louis Giliberto) writes:

[I had said that EFF funds would be better spent on ads and literature than
 on conferences and awards dinners.]

: This criticism is somewhat inconsistent with another criticism Louis
: makes. See below.
[Here I had talked about the EFF sending someone to speak at an ACM function
 at my school -- read the thread if you're interested]
: 
: Apparently, Louis believes EFF should spend money on literature on ads,
: except when it comes to flying to speak at his meeting in Chicago. Louis
: is mistaken to suppose that EFF board members or employees flew to Chicago
: because "Foley and the other yahoos" are there. Foley and some other
: Chicago people were deposed by lawyers hired by EFF, of course, but those
: lawyers were neither EFF board members nor EFF employees.

Let me clear up a few things.

1) I never asked the EFF to *pay* for anything.  I said if they had
   someone in the area could they shoot them over.  I said this in my
   post, and in my original letters (yes, plural) to the EFF.

   I will gladly provide a copy of my original letter (minus personal
   info like phone numbers) to anyone asking me in e-mail if they
   need proof of this.

2) "Louis is mistaken ... neither EFF board members nor EFF employees."
   No, Mr. Godwin, I think you are mistaken.  I know for a fact that
   the EFF had people in Chicago on and off investigating sundevil, including
   Mitch Kapor himself.  I know that a member of the staff (maybe he is no
   longer a member, but he is still active in the campaign) was in Chicago
   a few weeks ago.  If you are trying to tell me that no one who can
   represent the EFF to the officers' satisfaction has even been in Chicago
   except lawyers deposing Foley et al., then you must think I live under
   a rock.  Do you even know where the warrants were discovered for
   a particular seizure in Sundevil?  The names "Full Disclosure" and
   Chicago come to mind.  I'm sure the EFF legal staff is accepting
   facsimilies instead of federal documents now.  Why would you think
   someone would believe this?  I hope it's an honest mistake on your
   part.
: 
: I'm sorry we were unable to send someone to attend his ACM formation
: meeting, but Louis's inference that we simply chose not to support him is
: mistaken.

That was not my inference, and certainly the smallest portion of my post.
If that is the only point you got out of it, I suggest you re-read it.
The point was the EFF does not do enough to inform the general public,
and should divert funds and energy from other activities to this one.

I used my experience as an example of the negligence of the EFF when it
came to dealing with someone other than a member of Congress, et al.

I have privately sent a fuller description of my concerns to your
associate editor (not secretary!), and I won't go into them here.  But,
I suggest you reread the posting and see 1) Where I defended the EFF
against someone who does take "grass roots" (gack - I hate that -- reminds
me of hippies) efforts to inform the public and even was instrumental
in "breaking" at least part of Sundevil, and 2) what the whole point
of everything was.  I was not bashing the EFF for not bowing to me, I was
bashing them for ignoring an important aspect of any movement for reform:
backing from the majority of the population in a democratic society.

-Louis

--
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 Louis J. Giliberto, Jr.   ! magus@drktowr.chi.il.us
   -sysadmin drktowr       ! lgilibe@orion.it.luc.edu
  Chicago, IL  USA         ! 
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Newsgroups: comp.org.eff.talk