From: danb@zx.qsp.UUCP (Daniel Benbenisty)
Newsgroups: soc.singles
Subject: Re: Credibility...
Date: 25 Jan 93 23:46:55 GMT
Organization: Quality Software Products, LA, CA

In article <C18H9H.M5I@news.udel.edu> helie@bach.udel.edu (Ray Helie) writes:
>
>being single.  Dan's point is proven if you can find someone who
>does not desire to experience that level of emotional and physical
>involvement with someone.  That could /also/ translate to:  the pain 
>experienced by having to "give up" certain freedoms to be in
		^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>a relationship /outweighs/ the pleasure gotten experiencing 
>that deep emotional and physical bonding.  It's a matter of the
>sacrifice being worth it.
>
>Ed, it might be that /that/ is what you meant -- that everyone would
>be much, much happier experiencing this level of emotional and
>sexual bonding in their life, ... rather than that no one is able 
>to enjoy being single.  

As you pointed out, unless you have to sacrifice something for that 
bonding.  Also, you're neglected from your equation the inevitable
sacrifices that go with ANY good relationship, regardless of other
time commitments.  Sometimes there are fights, miscommunications,
and sometimes you get hurt.  You have to put in a reasonable amount 
of work into a relationship, ensuring communication, etc. - it's not
trivial.  I agree that this is usually well worth it - without 
considering OTHER TIME COMMITMENTS.

>If that is what you actually meant, I agree 
>with you wholeheartedly!  I can be perfectly happy while being single,
>but there is no doubt in my mind that I am many times happier when
>I am in a relationship that is right for me!  8-)

UNLESS YOU HAVE TO SACRIFICE SOMETHING FOR THAT BONDING!
So, this may be right for you, and right for Ed, but NOT right
for me and millions of others like me.

>Dan, it seems that giving up some of these activities causes enough
>pain for you to not make it worth it to get involved in a relationship.
>Experiencing that high level of emotional and physical involvement is
>enticing to you, I'm sure (?), but the pain of the sacrifice outweighs
>it(?)
>
>Can I paint a scenario for you (remember how I mentioned a /personally
>ideal/ relationship):  Suppose you met a woman that you felt the 
>same way about as your last SO that you mentioned.  Well, suppose 
>/also/ that she plays an instrument (and is in a band as well, and 
>could even join your band) she composes music (and does it even
>better than you do), likes to party, enjoys cooking (and is willing
>to show you how so you can cook together),  enjoys doing chores
>together (if you wanted to, doesn't matter), has errands of
>her own to run when you are running yours, likes to try reading the
>books you do, likes it if you wanted to read the books that she
>does (so you can talk about these books sometimes), and doesn't
>mind cuddling with you when you watch TV (or working on her designs
>for a better electronic guitar, if you'd rather be alone).
>
>In this situation, I don't see you having to sacrifice much at
>all to be in a relationship with /this/ woman.  /Then/ would you be
>even happier single, versus being with /her/?  If not, then you
>are not happier being single -- you just haven't found the
>right woman yet ... 8-)  It would be easy to confuse the
>two.  8-)  Not an attack, just an opinion.  

Hey, I'm in love :)
I DON'T have to sacrifice anything to be with this woman - I just
close my eyes and masterbate.  Unlike Ed, I'm not complaining.:)
But seriously, this sounds like a great woman.  The easiest way 
for me to find such a woman would be, ironically, to keep plugging 
away with my band with 100% devotion (i.e. no time to spare for 
searching for this woman by going out with lots of women) until my band 
gets more notoriety and visibility.  That's exactly what I'm doing.
That's essentially what Paul McCartney did, for the purposes of this
discussion!

To answer your question, yes I could see myself being happy with a 
woman who would conveniently overlap with all of my time-consuming 
and esoteric interests so as to spend time with me without distracting 
me.  Someday, when I don't spend as much time on these esoteric activities,
I will have time to actively look for one.  However, I have dated some 
nice women, and determined that right now, I don't want a women.  It's 
just not realistic to find a "DREAM" woman - and as you pointed out, 
that's pretty much what I would need to be happier than being single.

Just to find my MALE bandmates took me about two years of playing
around, auditioning, and searching to find talented enough guys
who were also interested in doing progressive rock.  I did not audition 
any woman - they are as rare as chicken teeth in progressive rock.
Let me correct myself - there was one.  She was also pretty sexy, but 
unfortunately, 1) we had different ideas musically, 2) she had a boyfriend
already (might not have been a prob. if I'd made a move), 3) she didn't
seem like the kind of woman I'd want in a relationship.  To tell you
the truth, having a relationship with a female bandmate is a titillating
prospect, but not a realistic one.  Bands, which are very volitile and
fragile, usually can't take the strain of a romantic relationship.
I've seen a few bands first hand break up horribly because of this.

I would NOT be happy spending all my time dating OTHER woman to find 
this needle in the haystack, while in the meantime all my other stuff 
was put on hold.  Not be be immodest, but to play in my band, she'd
need to be pretty damn good, so presumably it would take a good deal
of time to find her - and when I found her, this supergoddess would
need to like ME too!

So, there you have it.  On the balance, I have made the correct decision
in ensuring my present and future maximum possible happiness.  I am
much happier now than I have been in my past relationships, most of which
have been quite nice in themselves (and probably representative of future
relationships).

Jeez, I hope this is the last time I have to say all this!

>>>===Pan-Handle-Dan===>	danb@qsp.com
Daniel Benbenisty		Guitarist for EARWURM