HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Martin Ertl)
Subject: Re: An Open ANSI Forth Implementation
Organization: Institut fuer Computersprachen, Technische Universitaet Wien
Date: Fri, 2 Oct 1992 16:15:50 GMT

In article <9894@kralizec.zeta.org.au>, mikeh@kralizec.zeta.org.au
(Michael Hore) writes: 
|> Also consider native code.

Besides the obvious manpower and maintenance (there are dozens of
target machines and we don't have access to many of them) problems
there's another reason why ANSI figForth will not be native code.

One of the goals (at least one of my goals) for ANSI figForth is to be
a model implementation and an implementation model that is much more
defined than the standard.  Users should be able to exercise a similar
level of control over the system as in fig-Forth. E.g. writing a
decompiler, ticking constants etc. While the internals word set (if it
is ever completed;-) will provide a way for many of these things, the
rest would be machine-dependent or impossible on native code systems.

- anton
-- 
M. Anton Ertl                    Some things have to be seen to be believed
anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at Most things have to be believed to be seen
From: mylai@cs.uh.edu (Ming-Yung Lai)
Newsgroups: comp.lang.forth
Subject: Where is DASH FIND?
Date: 29 Sep 92 03:48:39 GMT
Article-I.D.: menudo.1992Sep29.034839.22477
Organization: Computer Science dept.,  Univ. of Houston (Main Campus)


 Is the FORTH recruiter DASH FIND ASSOCIATION still available?
 Can anyone tell me about their current address and tel#? Thank you.
From: mikeh@kralizec.zeta.org.au (Michael Hore)
Newsgroups: comp.lang.forth
Subject: Graphics, GUIs, and Events
Date: 30 Sep 92 10:58:45 GMT
Organization: Kralizec Dialup Unix Sydney: +61-2-837-1183 V.32


Brian Dunn writes, about graphwin,

>Many people are downloading this, does anyone have suggestions?  Has anyone
>gotten it working on their own systems, and what systems are they?

I now have a preliminary version running under Mops on the Mac(no text
windows or color yet, but all the graphics stuff is there), and
likewise a preliminary version of Brian's Starfighter game which uses
graphwin.

I'll upload both of these to GEnie as soon as I can (GEnie's link
to Australia seems to have gone down at the moment!!)

--------------------------------------------------------
Mike Hore        Internet:    mikeh@kralizec.zeta.org.au
From: Jason.Goga@mailbox.bison.mb.ca (Jason Goga)
Newsgroups: comp.lang.forth
Subject: FORTHNET
Date: 05 Oct 92  09:50:53 CST

Hello,

I'm in Winnipeg, Manitoba, Canada and am getting forthnet via a UUCP gateway into the fido net I'm in. I would like to get it directly. Is this possible? If so could somebody please tell me how.

Thanks,
-Jason

---
 * Origin: C.A. - FrontDoor (1:348/207)
From: ab@ersys.edmonton.ab.ca (Allan Brockman)
Newsgroups: comp.lang.forth
Subject: request info Re: Music tech's forth
Date: Sat, 03 Oct 92 23:44:58 MDT
Organization: Edmonton Remote Systems #3, Edmonton, AB, Canada

I have a forth 82 packege from music technology associates and before I
send off my shairwhare donation I would like to know if they are still in
bussness.
     So does:
          
          Music Technology Associates
          8580 North 54th street
          Milwaukee, Wisconsin
          USA
          53223
          
          still exist ?  Are they (10 years latter) still at that adress
and if not can someone tell me what became of them?  Who, if aneyone, 
still
suports this shairware ?  The package I have has forth for the AtariST
whith sorce code writen in forth and a meta compiler.  Does aneyone have
more ?  For example has and/or did Music Tech produce a sound package to
go whith there forth, or a loadible graphic comand extention, a hypertext
editing enviroment, a debuger, a cross-compiler, ect.   In short I would
like aney info aneyone has on Music Tech's forth.  Email me (where 
posible)
I'll summarize.  
     I would also be interested i finding other forth packages provided
they :
     1) run on the AtariST
     2) have a minimilist core whith sorce code in forth provided
     3) have the sorce code for lots of bells and whisels that can be 
loded
        to make to core more powerfull and userfriendly.
     
     I have also see references to a language called UNTIL.  What is 
UNTIL?
Again send Email I'll summarize.
 

Allan Brockman              ab@ersys.edmonton.ab.ca
From: John_Somerville@mindlink.bc.ca (John Somerville)
Newsgroups: comp.lang.forth
Subject: Re: looking for RTX 2000 chips
Date: 28 Sep 92 02:10:22 GMT
Organization: MIND LINK! - British Columbia, Canada
Distribution: world

Did any company pick up the chips that were already manufactured, or are
RTX2000 chips just impossible to get now?
regards john
--
john somerville B.C. Hydro
affiliations FIG Forth Interest Group
From: dmiller@im.lcs.mit.edu (Dick and Jill Miller)
Newsgroups: comp.lang.forth
Subject: Forth books
Date: 26 Sep 1992 12:33:33 -0500
Organization: UTexas Mail-to-News Gateway
NNTP-Posting-Host: cs.utexas.edu

            -------------------------------------------
            "RARE" FORTH BOOKS CURRENTLY STOCKED AT MMS
            -------------------------------------------
 
Recent ForthNet postings bemoan the lack of sources for good Forth books.  
Miller Microcomputer Services can help!  We currently stock the following 
new and out-of-print Forth books (as well as other books of interest to 
Forth programmers).  MMS invites your phone call (9am-9pm Eastern U.S. 
time) to confirm stock, price and S/H, or to discuss the appropriateness of 
a given book to your needs.
 
MMS also produces and supports MMSFORTH for PC-compatibles, plus MMSFORTH 
extension wordsets such as DATAHANDLER-PLUS, EXPERT-2 in MMSFORTH, 
FORTHCOM, FORTHWRITE and GENERAL LEDGER.  MMS offers custom programming, 
and PC-compatible system selection and peripheral sales -- including Harris 
RTX-2000 Forth chips and the Harris RTXDS Technical Reference Manual, plus 
RTX-2000 support by the MACH1 In-PC Board and FORTH++ from England.
 
A MMS brochure is available via U.S. Mail, free upon request to any of our 
addresses below.  Be sure to include your snail-mail address.
 
Partial listing of books currently stocked at MMS:
 
FORTH: A TEXT AND REFERENCE (Kelly & Spies)             $30.95
  Our vote for best Forth textbook, college-level w/exercises.
THINKING FORTH (Brodie)                                 $26.95
  Out-of-print, but still at MMS - best on Forth strategy.
STARTING FORTH (Brodie)                                 $28.95
  Most popular Forth textbook.
SCIENTIFIC FORTH (Noble; includes 360K disk for PC)     $49.95
  Excellent text on matrix & transcendental math, 8087 chip...
August 1980 BYTE Magazine                               $10.00
  The famous Forth Language issue, collector's item, mint!
THE COMPLETE FORTH (Winfield)                           $15.95
  Older, fine Forth textbook.
LEARNING FORTH (Armstrong)                              $16.95
  Very fundamental "programmed instruction".
BEGINNING FORTH (Chirlian)                              $16.95
  Independent text on earlier MMSFORTH.
FORTH PROGRAMMING (Scanlon)                             $17.95
  Good alternate Forth textbook.
FORTH-79 or FORTH-83 STANDARD MANUAL                    $13.95 ea.
  The official publications.
FORTH CONFERENCE PROCEEDINGS, FORML & Rochester         $25.00 ea. (most)
  Professional papers; incomplete collection, so inquire.
POCKET GUIDE TO FORTH (Baker & Derrick)                 $ 7.25
  Very good for FigForth users.
 
We try to minimize the commercial aspect of our postings here.  I trust 
most of you will agree that this exception, in direct response to the 
current thread on ForthNet, is appropriate and helpful to Forth 
programmers.            --Dick Miller
 
A. Richard & Jill A. Miller            | Miller Microcomputer Services |
InterNet: dmiller@im.lcs.mit.edu       | 61 Lake Shore Road            |
Voice: 508/653-6136, 9am-9pm EasternTZ | Natick, MA 01760-2099, USA    |
From: dwp@willett.pgh.pa.us (Doug Philips)
Newsgroups: comp.lang.forth
Subject: some FNEAS replies are going to bad email addresses.
Date: 26 Sep 92 12:37:02 GMT
Organization: EIEI-U


If you have submitted a request to FNEAS at least two days ago, and haven't
had a reply, it is probably because I either didn't get the message, or
because you have been one of the people whose request's replies have bounced,
and you should resubmit your request using a DIFFERENT email address in your
path command.  Several addresses ending in .edu have come back as
undeliverable, whereas usually the undeliverable addresses that I hear
about are outside North America.

-Doug
---
Preferred:  dwp@willett.pgh.pa.us	Ok:  {pitt,sei}!willett!dwp
Newsgroups: comp.lang.forth
From: mgj@franklin.ee.umr.edu (Mahesh Govind Joshi)
Subject: Errors compiling Aln Pratt's C-Forth. Help ??
Date: Sun, 27 Sep 1992 11:50:25 GMT
Reply-To: mgj@ee.umr.edu (Mahesh Govind Joshi)
Organization: University of Missouri - Rolla
Originator: mgj@ee.umr.edu

Hi,

I tried to compile C-forth on our SunSparc and the make fails
saying "Error code  1", while compiling forth.core;  although forth.core
is created, I have major problems running the editor.
For eg.
1 LIST or in fact any LIST doesnt work.
i.e I just get blank screens wheras forth.block and forth.line 
conatin entries for the screens.

Am I doing anything wrong or is there something missing. I got
the sourcefiles from wuarchive and did a touch lex.yy.c and make
all just as mentioned in forth.doc. Why do i get the error in
Make then ??

Help via e-mail would be appreciated ...

Thanks in advance !!

Mahesh Joshi.
________________________________________________________________________
Mahesh Joshi 			|   Bura duniya ko hai kehta
Help Desk Consultant		|   Aisa bhola to na ban 
Snail Mail:- 1300 N. Oak Street	|   Jo hai karta,woh hai bharta	
#17, Rolla MO 65401.		|   Hai yahan ka hai chalan
Voice:(314)341-8197.		|   Takdeer nahi chalnegi yahan
Email : mgj@ee.umr.edu		|	---- Majrooh Sultanpuri---- 
------------------------------------------------------------------------


Newsgroups: comp.lang.forth
From: mikeh@starnine.com (Mike Haas)
Subject: Re: Floating Point
Date: Thu, 1 Oct 1992 22:24:50 GMT
Organization: StarNine Technologies, Inc.

In article <1423@eouk9.eoe.co.uk> ahaley@eoe.co.uk (Andrew Haley) writes:
>I don't think that there is any real possibility of myself and Mike
>Haas coming to any agreement about the use of locals in floating
>point, and I certainly don't want to participate in a flame war.

No wars.  Just discussion.

>However, I find it easier to understand code which doesn't use lots of
>named temporaries.  

The problem for me is that Forth's alternatives are lacking...

1. Use of global variables (non-re-entrant)

2. Lots of stack dancing.  IMO, this lends itself to much less readable
   code than the use of locals.

>I only want to have the choice, and I don't want to see a standard
>adopted which breaks _my_ existing practice any more than I want
>someone else's code broken.

If the issue is separate stacks vs. one stack, when one is adopted,
somebody's code is going to break.

Actually, I see the consideration of "whose code will break" used
far too much in the discussion of where Forth should go.  Assuming
you actually want to IMPROVE the language, it has always seemed to
me that more emphasis be placed on "does this change enhance
Forth in a general way?", more of a "looking forward" attitude.

Nonetheless, the beauty of locals is that the adoption of a GOOD
standard wordset should break no existing code, as it is pure
extension.

>Some people seem to think that various
>features such as locals are more "modern" than the usual Forth
>features.  These features were common in other languages when Forth
>was designed, and it was decided not to include them.

Common also was the use of file I/O and memory allocations.  Is there anyone
that would argue that Forth would have only benefited if their
importance had been realized sooner, and incorporated into
the language in a standard way years ago?

Besides, this argument boils down to "if it wasn't in Chuck's forth,
it doesn't need to be there."  I actually know little about the
first "Forth", but my understanding is that it was RADICALLY different
from what eventaully emerged as common Forth.  If there are any
that are familiar with the first implemntations, their evolution
would be interesting reading in this newsgroup, I'm sure.
From: ForthNet@willett.pgh.pa.us (ForthNet articles from GEnie)
Newsgroups: comp.lang.forth
Subject: Selecting a Public Domain Kernel
Date: 27 Sep 92 12:59:17 GMT
Organization: EIEI-U

Category 1,  Topic 7
Message 156       Sat Sep 26, 1992
ELLIOTT.C                    at 17:29 EDT
 
 -----via CRS Premium Bulletin Board
 Date: 09-24-92 (23:00)
   To: FORTHNET, GENIE, RIME ...
 From: JACK WOEHR
 Subj: FREE FORTHS


         JAXTHINX that Shareware Forth systems are the wave of
 the future.

                 =jax=

 NET/Mail : RCFB Golden, CO (303) 278-0364 VESTA & Denver FIG for
 Forth! ---
  * The GrapeVine/Ferret Face BBS * NLR,ARK * 501-753-8121 DS *
  * PostLink(tm) v1.02  GRAPEVINE (#318) : RelayNet(tm)

 PCRelay:RUNNINGA -> #2 RelayNet (tm) 4.11                The
 Running Board * 301 229-5342 * MD  

-----
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using e-mail.  Please post a follow-up article, or use any instructions
the author may have included (USMail addresses, telephone #, etc.).
Report problems to: dwp@willett.pgh.pa.us
From: mikeh@kralizec.zeta.org.au (Michael Hore)
Newsgroups: comp.lang.forth
Subject: ANSI Forth question: M+
Date: 30 Sep 92 12:00:57 GMT
Organization: Kralizec Dialup Unix Sydney: +61-2-837-1183 V.32


Anton Ertl writes:

>The Basis 15 before me says:
>
>M+ ( d1|ud1 n|u -- d2|ud2 )
>
>I don't see how M+ can work both for signed and unsigned numbers.
>  ...

You're right, Anton, this needed fixing, and they've done just
that in dpANS-3 where we now have:

M+   ( d1|ud1 n -- d2|ud2 )

Of course in the general case if operands of unequal lengths
are being added or subtracted, we have to know if the shorter
operand(s) are to have their signs extended or not, i.e.
whether they're signed or unsigned.  It looks obvious, but
it's surprisingly easy to forget (a word of personal testimony).

--------------------------------------------------------
Mike Hore        Internet:    mikeh@kralizec.zeta.org.au
Newsgroups: comp.lang.forth
From: mikc@hal.gnu.ai.mit.edu (Mike Coughlin)
Subject: Re: ANS TC Magnet for ROMability
Organization: /etc/organization
Date: Tue, 29 Sep 1992 13:50:22 GMT

In article <4056.UUL1.3#5129@willett.pgh.pa.us> ForthNet@willett.pgh.pa.us (ForthNet articles from GEnie) writes:
>Category 10,  Topic 22
>Message 87        Sun Sep 13, 1992
>B.RODRIGUEZ2 [Brad]          at 08:36 EDT
> 
>> The first step in standardising cross compilers should be to write
> > a clear explanation of how a cross compiler works and publish code
> > that does it in an efficient manner.  We will know the code is good
> > when it gets copied into various new Forth systems.
>
>Sorry, I have to disagree with this.  This seems to be saying that we should
>have one cross-compiler, period....which would by default be standard!  I'd
>rather see variety in cross-compiler approaches.
>
   We can't have anything standardized in Forth because we can't agree what
to standardize. If there was one Forth cross-compilier then there could
be a standard for cross-compiliers. If there is a variety in cross-compiliers,
then there can be no standard. We can't have a standard that allows a large
number and unlimited combinations of options and expect code to be portable.
We might be able to define the terms we use to describe cross-compiling, and
that would be a good idea. But I can't see enough agreement in this subject
to produce any worthwhile word definitions that could be put into a 
standard glossary.

>Re. the published explanation & code, I'm told my article on the subject is
>now appearing in Forth Dimensions.  As to whether it is clear or efficient, I
>can't say.
>
    I could read only the first part of the article since it is being 
published as a series. This will cause a delay of many months in improving
the understanding of Forth and its possible standardization.
Newsgroups: comp.lang.forth
Subject: re: TCJ ( The Computer Journal)
From: mentink@wronz.org.nz
Date: 30 Sep 92 08:13:39 +1200

	
	Can anyone tell me an address for TCJ ( The Computer Journal).
	I would like to subsribe to it, but need address and info on
	costing etc ...

	Thanks in advance.

	Bernie Mentink
	W.R.O.N.Z
	Christchurch
	New Zealand

	email: mentink@wronz.org.nz
From: ForthNet@willett.pgh.pa.us (ForthNet articles from GEnie)
Newsgroups: comp.lang.forth
Subject: From the xCFB's / ForthNet
Date: 3 Oct 92 13:30:56 GMT
Organization: EIEI-U

Category 14,  Topic 2
Message 59        Fri Oct 02, 1992
ELLIOTT.C                    at 13:32 EDT
 
 -----via CRS Premium Bulletin Board
 Date: 09-30-92 (23:00)
   To: JEFFERY WOOD
 From: JIM WENZEL
 Subj: FORTH REPOSITORY PC-BASED

 Jeffery Wood * That's what I'll end up doing when/if I can
                afford to get Postlink and become a node. I
                really appreciate the info. Thank you.
                                  = = =

   You do not need  PostLink or become a member of RIME  in order
   to pull the ForthNet. All  that is required is a .qwk
   importer for your BBS.. and that  your calling BBS have  a
   .qwk compatible door.  What type of software do you run for
   your BBS?
 ---
  * SM 1.06 A0059 * "Facts are stubborn things." - T. Smollett
  * The GrapeVine/Ferret Face BBS * NLR,ARK * 501-753-8121 DS *
  * PostLink(tm) v1.02  GRAPEVINE (#318) : RelayNet(tm)

 PCRelay:RUNNINGA -> #2 RelayNet (tm)
 4.11                The Running Board * 301 229-5342 * MD


-----
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using e-mail.  Please post a follow-up article, or use any instructions
the author may have included (USMail addresses, telephone #, etc.).
Report problems to: dwp@willett.pgh.pa.us
From: kentw@bellcore.com (Kent Wittenburg)
Newsgroups: comp.lang.visual
Subject: Intl Parsing Workshop Call for Papers
Date: 5 Oct 92 18:37:00 GMT
Organization: Bellcore, Morristown, NJ


Subject: SIGPARSE News #92-2

October 5, 1992

   Please post the following announcement on your local 
   bboards/news/mailing-list.  Thank you.

          C a l l  f o r   A b s t r a c t s
         ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
           The Third International Workshop
           on Parsing Technologies (IWPT-93)

     10-11 August, 1993 in Tilburg (The Netherlands)
     12-13 August, 1993 in Durbuy (Belgium)

              Sponsored by ACL/SIGPARSE 
       Association for Computational Linguistics
          Special Interest Group on Parsing

Submissions are invited from all areas of parsing technology.
These areas include, but not limited to, theoretical and
practical studies of parsing algorithms for natural language
sentences, texts, fragments, dialogues, ill-formed sentences,
speech input, and multi-dimensional (pictorial) language.

Schedule:

  February 15, 1993:  Abstract Due
        March, 1993:  Full Paper Due 
          May, 1993:  Notification of Acceptance
         June, 1993:  Final Manuscript Due

Submission:

All abstracts (approximately 300 words) must be submitted
via email to:

    sigparse@cs.cmu.edu

Authors will be then notified how to submit a full paper, which
will be reviewed by the program committee for acceptance.

Workshop Chairman:  Harry Bunt

General Chairman:  Masaru Tomita

Program Committee:  Robert Berwick, Ken Church, Arvind Joshi,
           Ronald Kaplan, Martin Kay, Bernard Lang, Makoto Nagao,
           Anton Nijholt, Mark Steedman, Henry Thompson,
           K. Vijay-Shanker, Yorick Wilks, Kent Wittenburg

P.S. To put your name on the sigparse mailing list, send mail to
     sigparse@cs.cmu.edu

--

Kent Wittenburg
Bell Communications Research
Newsgroups:  comp.lang.visual
From: mcintyre@predator.endicott.ibm.com (Dave McIntyre)
Subject: Prograph
Date: Mon, 05 Oct 92 16:59:20 GMT
Reply-To: mcintyre@cs.rpi.edu (Dave McIntyre)
Organization: IBM Federal Systems Company

I am thinking about buying the Prograph visual programming language,
and am interested in your experiences with it, especially if you have
implemented a large system with it.

What drawbacks does Prograph have over traditional ways of programming
on the Mac?  I guess I am looking more for comments about the actual
system, and less about the "object-flow" paradigm.

               				Thanks, Dave
From: kxs5829@ultb.isc.rit.edu (K.X. Saunders)
Newsgroups: comp.lang.misc,comp.compilers
Subject: Turing info wanted
Keywords: question, Turing
Date: 27 Sep 92 18:06:35 GMT
Article-I.D.: comp.92-09-193
Reply-To: kxs5829@ultb.isc.rit.edu (K.X. Saunders)
Followup-To: comp.lang.misc
Organization: Rochester Institute of Technology
Originator: kxs5829@ultb


	Does anyone know of any ftp sites where I can get a Turing (and
Turing plus) reference manual?  Also, a yaccable grammar would be nice.  

	- Kyle
-- 
kxs5829@ultb.isc.rit.edu, kyle@nick.csh.rit.edu
-- 
Send compilers articles to compilers@iecc.cambridge.ma.us or
{ima | spdcc | world}!iecc!compilers.  Meta-mail to compilers-request.
Newsgroups: comp.lang.misc
From: TOM ZINCK <K1XE@UNB.CA>
Subject: WANTED: BNF descriptions of popular Languages
Organization: The University of New Brunswick
Date: Fri, 2 Oct 1992 12:48:20 GMT

Hello World !!

I am looking for complete BNF descriptions of a few popular languages
such as Modula2, Modula3, F77, F90 and C. Any help would be appreciated.
An FTP site would be fine.

Please e-mail results to K1XE@UNB.CA.

Will Summarize to net.
THANX,
Tom

--------------------------------------------------------
Thomas R. A. Zinck
Faculty of Computer Science  "Beer does the body good"
University of New Brunswick
Fredericton , N.B. , CANADA
K1XE@UNB.CA
--------------------------------------------------------
Newsgroups: comp.lang.misc