HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: anil@CS.TITECH.AC.JP
Newsgroups: sci.lang.japan
Subject: Trick Answer
Date: 29 Sep 92 14:50:18 GMT
Article-I.D.: bloom-be.9209291452.AA28868
Reply-To: NIHONGO@mitvma.mit.edu
Organization: The Internet


     ____
    /    \
   / \    \
   l  \  / \
   l   \/   \
    \__/     \


1) Det-tara, me (if the two lines within the "no"
came out it would be an eye)

2) Detarame (random, no meaning)

Any other possible answers?
--
Anil
Newsgroups: sci.lang.japan,comp.sys.mac.programmer
From: philip@research.canon.oz.au (Philip Craig)
Subject: Anyone know "Learning the Kana" stack location?
Organization: Canon Information Systems Research Australia
Date: Sun, 4 Oct 1992 23:22:38 GMT

Hi,

I'm looking for a better idea of where the program mentioned in the
below reference could be:

If you've got access to the first couple of Apple's Developer CD-ROMs,
there was a Hypercard stack, titled "Learning the Kana" I believe, on
one or more of them, but it disappeared from later editions of the
CD-ROMs.  It has a typo or two, but an icon editor can fix those; and
it doesn't require KanjiTalk...

I do have access to some of the first Apple Developer CDs, but I couldn't
find the stack on these. Does anyone here know the name or edition number
of the CD that this stack is on?

Thanks in advance for any help -- please email replies.
-- 
   _/_/_/ _/  _/ _/ _/     _/ _/_/_/ _p_h_i_l_i_p_@_r_e_s_e_a_r_c_h_._c_a_n_o_n_._o_z_._a_u   _--_|\
  _/  _/ _/  _/ _/ _/     _/ _/  _/  Phone: +61 2 805 2951        /      \
 _/_/_/ _/_/_/ _/ _/     _/ _/_/_/   Fax:   +61 2 805 2929        \_.--._/
_/     _/  _/ _/ _/_/_/ _/ _/     PO Box 313 North Ryde 2113 AUSTRALIA  v
From: edhall@rand.org (Ed Hall)
Newsgroups: sci.lang.japan
Subject: Re: huh..  was Re: 26 blah
Date: 27 Sep 92 03:50:21 GMT
Organization: RAND Corporation.

In article <38585@sdcc12.ucsd.edu> djohnson@cs.ucsd.edu (Darin Johnson) writes:
>>	d + a (as in add, or as in aero-)
>
>Hmm, 3 different sounds I see there :-)  I've noticed often that
>what people and textbooks like to list as the English equivalent
>of a vowel sound depends strongly on local pronounciation.

It will depend as much on the author's own pronunciation of the English
"equivalent" as anything.

>For example, my text says the Japanese "e" is pronounced as
>the English "bet", but on tapes it sounds more like the
>first part of "bait"...

I wouldn't think so, unless you pronounce "bait" as two syllables.
One of the more unusual aspects of English is the abundance of
diphthongs--gliding from one vowel sound to another within a single
syllable.  Along with sounds such as "oy", "ow", and so on, all the
"long" vowels but "E" are diphthongs.

With the possible exception of the "ya-yu-yo" row, Japanese is pretty
much diphthong-free.  (Let any linguists among us clarify or correct
this...)

>(and just how *is* karaoke pronounced, with a "ke" or a "kay" on
>the end?  Maybe the word on the concept should just be banished.)

"ke", as in "bet" :-)  Unless your speech is particularly clipped,
you'll pronounce "kay" as a diphthong.  That would be wrong... :-)

This is one reason why you should work with a teacher--a native
speaker if at all possible--at least when starting out.  Even
language tapes are of limited help, since there are differences
in vowels that your ears are likely not to pick up without outside
direction.  And a Japanese friend might be too polite to point
out your mistakes.

		-Ed Hall
		edhall@rand.org
From: asano@UCSU.COLORADO.EDU (ASANO Yoshiteru)
Newsgroups: sci.lang.japan
Subject: Re: kanji of the day ?52
Date: 6 Oct 92 15:42:53 GMT
Reply-To: NIHONGO@mitvma.mit.edu
Organization: The Internet

Your comment reminds me of those sentences appeared in our first textbook of
English.  They are:
   This is a pen.  I am a boy.  You are a girl.  I have a pen.
Perhaps, those sentences are most famous English sentences in Japan, in terms
of their 'recognizability' (=everyone can understand the meaning).
  y.a.
Newsgroups: sci.lang.japan
From: edmtl@alf.uib.no (Thor Legvold)
Subject: Re: How to use openwindows to read/write japanese language ?
Organization: University of Bergen, Norway
Date: Wed, 30 Sep 92 08:26:17 GMT

In article <1992Sep25.213021.11568@athena.mit.edu> ross@minnie.mit.edu (Ross Levinsky) writes:
>
>
>Hi,
>
>To the best of my knowledge, you're going to have a hell of a time
>running the latest versions of Japanese software on any Openwindows
>platform, because their libs are based on X11R4, and the latest versions
>of jserver, kterm, kinput2, etc., all require X11R5.
>
>Again, to the best of my knowledge.

Bzzzt - wrong.
I run jserver, Wnn4, kterm, & Nemacs (with EGG) on a NeXT with X11R4...
Of course you'll need to find the right patches to work on a Sun.
I think the key word here is 'latest version' (I thought I _had_ the
latest??? ;-), although I have no (well, a few ;-) problems with my
setup.

>
>A word of advice - unless you are REALLY addicted to icons, or REALLY
>need NeWS, and REALLY can't/won't use ghostscript/ghostview, then change
>to X11R5. It's much faster than OW, and quite a bit smaller. And, you
>can do Japanese (fairly) easily.

100% agreed - drop OW and get R5.

>
>
>
>				Ross
>				ross@mecha.mit.edu
>
>
>P.S. I've heard of people merging X11R5 into the OW3.0 distribution but
>have no details on this. If it is possible, the compatibility problems
>might be solved, but I can't tell you how to do it...
>

Nor can I.

Regards,
Thor

Newsgroups: sci.lang.japan
From: stueber@VAX.MPIZ-KOELN.MPG.DBP.DE
Subject: Re: kanji of the day ?48
X-Unparsable-Date: Fri, 2 Oct 1992 04: 18:50 TZONE
Reply-To: NIHONGO@mitvma.mit.edu
Organization: The Internet
Date: Fri, 2 Oct 1992 08:21:07 GMT

Hi,
Your request for old versions of the Kanji of the Day messages has been
received. If possible try to obtain the messages from the ftp site that
is decribed below. Please report any difficulties to me

Greetings Kurt



NEW FTP SITE FOR JAPANESE LANGUAGE SOFTWARE

   The University of Washington Technical Japanese Program is now operating an
anonymous ftp server for Japanese software and information files.  The address
is:
      uesama.tjp.washington.edu       (128.95.202.40)

     We will be using this site to store that latest versions of freeware,
shareware, and demonstration versions of commercial software.  There will also
be information about using Japanese on computers (including Ken Lunde's famous
"JapanInf"), announcements of new products, descriptions of Japanese language
programs around the country, and anything else that might be useful.

Currently we are featuring the following items:

KANJI OF THE DAY - These files from Kurt Stueber
(stueber@vax.mpiz-koeln.mpg.dbp.de) offer one method of daily study of kanji.
Each file contains a kanji (drawn in ascii-graphics), onyomi, kunyomi, a
mnemonic and/or derivation, common compounds, and computer code equivalents.
Currently the first 34 files are available, complete with corrections from
previous postings.  New files will be added periodically as they are updated.
[no japanese software required]

BEGINNING JAPANESE - This software from the University of Minnesota consists of
seventeen lessons in grammatical instruction and drill for students at an
elementary level of Japanese Study.  Two of the lessons are devoted
specifically to mastery of the hiragana and katakana writing systems.
[requires KanjiTalk 6.0.7 or later and HyperCard 2.1 or later]

KEN LUNDE - His latest software is available in /pub/Japanese/KenLunde.  These
are among the most useful utilities available on any platform for working with
Japanese characters.

NEWSAGENT1.24 - A USENET-news reader for the Macintosh capable of handling JIS,
Shift-JIS, or EUC (7- or 8-bit) codes.  The easiest way to read the fj.* groups
on the Macintosh.  [requires KanjiTalk 6.0.5 or later]

SHINBUN -- The standard OPEN LOOK based interface to the USENET news system
that uses the NNTP remote news server for accessing newsgroups and articles.
Handles JIS, Shift-JIS, or EUC (7- or 8-bit) codes in both reading and
composing.  [requires Japanese fonts, front-end processor, and multi-byte
character capabilities].


    Suggestions for further additions (or problems) should be sent to Jon
Wiederspan <jonwd@uwtc.washington.edu>  or may be submitted directly to the
site in /incoming.  Direct submissions should include the name and e-mail
address of the uploader in case of questions.
Newsgroups: sci.lang.japan
From: yxizaki@pbhyf.PacBell.COM (4E700)
Subject: KANJI-TALK
Organization: Pacific * Bell
Date: Wed, 30 Sep 1992 19:27:48 GMT



Hello,

Just bought a new MAC(powerbook).
And I'd like to install a KANJI-TALK.
Where can I buy it around SF Bay area(preferably east bay)? Anybody knows?
Thank you in advance!

Yasuki Izaki
(510) 831-4480
-- 
Yasuki Izaki		Email: yxizaki@Pacbell.COM
39 Beta Court, Room 220G
San Ramon, CA 94583
(510) 831-4480
From: santos@mickey.ai.kyutech.ac.jp (Rafael &)
Newsgroups: sci.lang.japan
Subject: Re: Having fun with the Canon Wordtank
Date: 28 Sep 92 11:02:53 GMT
	<1992Sep25.102452.25969@kuis.kyoto-u.ac.jp>
Distribution: sci
Organization: KIT Iizuka, AI Dept, JAPAN.
In-reply-to: chosei@aoi.kuis.kyoto-u.ac.jp's message of 25 Sep 92 10:24:52 GMT

In article <1992Sep25.102452.25969@kuis.kyoto-u.ac.jp> chosei@aoi.kuis.kyoto-u.ac.jp writes:

>> Just some more information on the Canon Wordtank. 
>> Here are some entries I saw in the model 7100, while
>> I was snooping in. Since I found them (at least) interesting,
>> I am postin them here. Try for yourself !
>> 
>> UTSUUTSU - 2 equal kanjis, with 29 strokes each one, meaning gloominess
>> YUUUTSU - another difficult kanji combination: melancholy
>> MEIKA,the third option- an easy word in Japanese, a long concept in English
>> NARADUKE - another difficult explanation in English
>> NAMUAMIDABUTSU - A LOT of kanjis and a long meaning in English
>> NAMYMYOUHOURENGEKYOU - you need to see to believe...
>
>I couldn't find this in my ID-8500. how you enter it in the Wordtank?
>(either romaji or hiragana is fine).

My model is set up for entry in romaji and conversion to kana.
Here are the entries again, in hiragana. Sorry for the people who
cannot read in their terminals...

 UTSUUTSU - $@$&$D$&$D(J 
 YUUUTSU - $@$f$&$&$D(J $@M+]5(J
 MEIKA - $@$a$$$+(J   
 NARADUKE - $@$J$i$E$1(J   $@F`NIDR(J 
 NAMUAMIDABUTSU - $@$J$`$"$_$@$V$D(J  
 NAMYMYOUHOURENGEKYOU - My fault. the correct entry is 
 NAMUMYOUHOURENGEKYOU - $@$J$`$_$g$&$[$&$l$s$2$-$g$&(J
 ERUPI-BAN - $@%(%k%T!<$P$s(J

Just remembering: this information have no pratical purposes,
only to take a look at strange entries in the Canon ID-7100.

>Claudio

Another brazilian lost here, I guess :)

Rafael.
Newsgroups: sci.lang.japan
From: sdfncr@ritvax.isc.rit.edu (SUSAN_FISCHER)
Subject: dyslexia
Reply-To: sdfncr@ritvax.isc.rit.edu
Organization: Rochester Institute of Technology
Date: Wed, 30 Sep 1992 19:33:47 GMT

I have also heard that there is much less dyslexia with kanji in both
China and Japan.  Some dyslexia can be caused by aphasia (resulting
from a stroke or head trauma) and is very interesting.  Sasanuma and her
colleagues have reported that kana or kanji can be affected differentially
depending on the locus of the brain injury.  Inability to read kana is
associated with the part of the brain that produces speech, while difficulty
in reading kanji is associated more with the part of the brain that
processes meaning.  Ths preceding is a gross oversimplification, but it
may have some explanatory value.
S. Fischer
Newsgroups: sci.lang.japan
From: anil@CS.TITECH.AC.JP
Subject: Re: Sale of Macintosh PowerBook 100
Reply-To: NIHONGO@mitvma.mit.edu
Organization: The Internet
Date: Fri, 2 Oct 1992 07:01:50 GMT

No, you can get a new one in Tokyo for about 33 man, and memory is
very cheap nowadays. Software is usually not included in the
budget for computer, only hardware (see PC review back issues on
software piracy). This issue of software does NOT reflect MY opinion,
just a fact of the copmuter world: when people buy a computer, they
very rarely have a software budget.
The fact that a new model (powerbook 145) has superceded the pb100
also means that the price has recently come down. Bad time to sell
I guess.

Anil
Newsgroups: sci.lang.japan
From: gperkins@netcom.com (Glen C. Perkins)
Subject: Re: Why not learn "26 more" characters
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services  (408 241-9760 guest) 
Date: Fri, 2 Oct 1992 18:26:58 GMT

dan@cafws2.eng.uci.edu (Dan Harkless) writes:

>In article <ghawkins.717267544@unix1.tcd.ie> ghawkins@unix1.tcd.ie (George C. Hawkins) writes:
>>sdwyer@AGSM.UCLA.EDU (Steve Dwyer) writes:
>>
>>>> Why did the advertising moguls decide to pronounce "Hyundai" as
>>>> "hun-day"?
>>
>>>What is the correct pronunciation?  Before marketed in the U.S., the
>>>Wall Street Journal said Hyundai is rhymes with Sunday.
>>
>>I wonder why Americans should choose a different pronunciation to Europe
>>where it is hi-yun-dye.

>	Well, a wrong pronunciation is a wrong pronunciation - no use discus-
>sing the relative merits of different ones...

That's a pretty silly comment. "Wrong pronunciation" can only be
considered as a matter of degree since no two people ever pronounce
things EXACTLY the same way, whether "native speakers" or "foreign
speakers" (which is also a matter of degree.)

If, in telling you my phone number, I pronounce "five" as "fibe", it
shouldn't cause you much difficulty, but if I pronounce it as "thrive"
you'll have a problem. "Hunday" is MUCH closer to the "correct"
pronunciation than "Hie-un-die." It is far more likely to be
recognized by a Korean speaker which, I suppose, makes it a little
more "authentic" as a pronuciation of the real Korean name.
-- 
+-----------------------+---------------------------------------------------+
|--- Glen C. Perkins ---|                                                   |
| <gperkins@netcom.com> |             "Don't forget, your mind              |
| Native Guide Software |              only *simulates* logic."             |
| Palo Alto, California |                                                   |
+-----------------------+---------------------------------------------------+

Newsgroups: sci.lang.japan
From: 6o25@SDF.LONESTAR.ORG ("Stephen M. Jones")
Subject: Re: kanji of the day ?47
Reply-To: NIHONGO@mitvma.mit.edu
Organization: The Internet
Date: Sat, 3 Oct 1992 02:21:00 GMT

could you send me 1-46 =)  thank you!

--
Stephen Jones - SysAdm/SDF - 6o25@sdf.lonestar.org
From: yawei@bronze.ucs.indiana.edu (~{QG9p~})
Newsgroups: sci.lang.japan,soc.culture.china,soc.culture.japan
Subject: Re: Dyslexi in china & Japan
Date: 26 Sep 92 06:49:48 GMT
Organization: Indiana University

In article <1992Sep24.132545.15389@alf.uib.no> edmtl@alf.uib.no (Thor Legvold) writes:
>
>I just got back from a lecture (I'm a graduate student - psychology),
>where the professor said that he had heard that dyslexi was 
>unknown in China because the kanji (don't know the Chinese
>name for them :-) are picture based instead of arbitrary symbols
>such as western alphabets.  But following his logic - there
>should be Dyslexi in both China and Japan (more in Japan) because of
>the phonetic values associated with the characters.

>Does anyone have any data/references to support/refute this???

I don't know, but a very high percentage of the Chinese population
are funtionally illiterate.  I guess most dyslexies would just
be camouflaged among the tens of millions of school drop-outs and not
easily recognized as a problem.

What exactly is the definition of dyslexis anyway?  If just 
simply as inability to learn to read, then 1/2 of my primary
school class was probably dyslexies. :-)
Newsgroups: sci.lang.japan
From: jwb@capek.rdt.monash.edu.au (Jim Breen)
Subject: Re: Having fun with the Canon Wordtank
Organization: Monash University, Melb., Australia.
Date: Mon, 28 Sep 1992 01:16:29 GMT

harry@issun1.kfk.de (Harald Kucharek) writes:


>In article 92Sep25183205@grape.mickey.ai.kyutech.ac.jp, santos@mickey.ai.kyutech.ac.jp (Rafael &) writes:
>>
>>Just some more information on the Canon Wordtank. 
>>Here are some entries I saw in the model 7100, while
>>I was snooping in. Since I found them (at least) interesting,
>>I am postin them here. Try for yourself !
>>
>>UTSUUTSU - 2 equal kanjis, with 29 strokes each one, meaning gloominess
>>YUUUTSU - another difficult kanji combination: melancholy
>>MEIKA,the third option- an easy word in Japanese, a long concept in English
>>NARADUKE - another difficult explanation in English
>>NAMUAMIDABUTSU - A LOT of kanjis and a long meaning in English
>>NAMYMYOUHOURENGEKYOU - you need to see to believe...
>>ERUPI-BAN - means the long-play, a mix between romaji and kanji

>Anyone out there who can type in and post these things in JIS? Thanks!

$@]5]5(J [$@$&$D$&$D(J] /gloominess (WT)/
$@M+]5(J [$@$f$&$&$D(J] /melancholy (WT)/
$@L>2H(J [$@$a$$$+(J] /distinguished family (WT)/
$@F`NIDR(J [$@$J$i$E$1(J] /pickles seasoned in sake lees (WT)/
$@FnL50$LoBKJ)(J [$@$J$`$"$_$@$V$D(J] /I sincerely believe in Amitabha (WT)/
$@0$LoBK(J [$@$"$_$@(J] /Amitabha (Budd. deity) (WT)/
$@FnL5(J [$@$J$`(J] /amen (WT)/
$@FnL5L/K!O!2Z7P(J [$@$J$`$_$g$&$[$&$l$s$2$-$g$&(J] /Glory to the Sutra (WT)/
$@%(%k%T!<HW(J [$@%(%k%T!<$P$s(J] /LP/long-playing record/

Can never resist a challenge!


-- 
Jim Breen                           JIS:$B%8%`!!%V%j!<%s(J
Department of Robotics & Digital Technology. Monash University. 
PO Box 197 Caulfield East VIC 3145 Australia (ph) +61 3 573 2552 
(fax) +61 3 573 2345  AARNet/Internet:jwb@capek.rdt.monash.edu.au
From: burress@twics.co.jp (Tim Burress)
Newsgroups: sci.lang.japan
Subject: Re: Dyslexi in china & Japan
Date: 29 Sep 92 16:23:30 GMT
Organization: TWICS, Tokyo, Japan

In article <1992Sep24.132545.15389@alf.uib.no>, edmtl@alf.uib.no (Thor Legvold) writes:
> I just got back from a lecture (I'm a graduate student - psychology),
> where the professor said that he had heard that dyslexi was 
> unknown in China because the kanji (don't know the Chinese
> name for them :-) are picture based instead of arbitrary symbols
> such as western alphabets.  But following his logic - there
> should be Dyslexi in both China and Japan (more in Japan) because of
> the phonetic values associated with the characters.
> 
> Does anyone have any data/references to support/refute this???

It has been ten years since I looked into this, and at the time, yes, I did find
scholarly papers on the subject.  I'm not sure that dyslexia is the proper term,
though you would know better than I.  Anyway, I remember one which may even have
compared Chinese and Japanese patients with similar brain injuries.  Both were
able to perceive and understand kanji, but the Japanese patients could not 
process kana.  I don't remember if they were able to _pronounce_ the Han
characters or not, however.

The difference appears to be that the structures used for processing kanji do
not require the intermediate conversion into a sound representation before the
meanings are evoked.  Actually I find myself doing something similar, since I
learned Chinese ten years ago, forgot it all, then came to Japan.  Often I'll
know what things mean without being able to pronounce the word in either
language.

Anyway, I suggest doing a literature search with keywords like Japanese, Kanji,
and then all dys's and a's (dyslexia, dysgraphia...  alexia (?), agraphia...
there are lots of them).  And if you find something good, please share it!
I'm far from my home library just now...

Tim Burress                                     Internet:  burress@twics.co.jp
TWICS Co., Ltd.
1-21 Yotsuya, Shinjuku-ku, Tokyo 160 Japan
Xref: sparky sci.lang:7417 sci.lang.japan:4274
From: ecovingt@sdcc13.ucsd.edu (Maiko Covington)
Newsgroups: sci.lang,sci.lang.japan
Subject: American Translators Association - San Diego conference
Date: 29 Sep 92 21:46:00 GMT
Followup-To: sci.lang
Organization: University of California, San Diego



		AMERICAN TRANSLATORS ASSOCIATION
		33RD ANNUAL CONFERENCE - SAN DIEGO
			NOVEMBER 4-8

The American Translators Association (ATA), founded in 1959 and with
a current membership of 4000, is holding its Annual Conference this
year at the San Diego Princess Resort. This event consists of panel
discussions, workshops and scholarly papers and features lively
presentations, exhibits, a job exchange, accreditation testing and
an opportunity to make professional contacts.

	For registration information, please contact the National
	headquarters:

		American Translators Association
		1735 Jefferson Davis Highway, Suite 903
		Arlington, VA 22202-3413

		Telephone (703) 892-1500
		Fax (703) 892-1501

	Office hours 9:00 AM to 5:00 PM (Eastern Time)
From: miner@kuhub.cc.ukans.edu
Newsgroups: sci.lang
Subject: Re: Cognitive Phonology (was Cognitive Linguistics...)
Date: 30 Sep 92 21:10:14 CDT
Organization: University of Kansas Academic Computing Services

In article <1992Sep28.035310.25284@midway.uchicago.edu>, goer@ellis.uchicago.edu (Richard L. Goerwitz) writes:

[discussion of Chomskyan ascendancy in Linguistics]

> Mr. Householder was one of the few people to recognize what was going
> to happen, so I gather.  You were one of his students, right?  Why did
> he give up?

He got a certain amount of criticism for closing that debate about
phonological features so abruptly (and, on the face of it, weakly).
But one factor may have been plans for retirement, and also
preoccupation with his book on the Greek syntax of Dionysius Thrax and
probably other projects.

It's sort of interesting to remember what Householder was known for at
Indiana when I was there: he defended eclecticism in linguistic
theory, and opposed psychological realism in theory-building, saying,
If I couldn't write a better description of a language than what
speakers have in their heads, I'd pack up and go home!  (I don't recall
his exact words).  That's almost incomprehensible today, though to be
frank, we never really understood what he meant by it then either...

Hockett went on to write the best anthropology textbook I've ever
seen, but as he remarked himself, "it hit the market with a dull
thud."
-- 
********************************** +.............................+
*- Ken <miner@kuhub.cc.ukans.edu>* :All opinions expressed herein:
*There is no privileged position.* :are my own and are not to be :
*	-God, Derrida, others    * : attributed to my employer   :
********************************** +.............................+

Newsgroups: sci.lang
From: pesetsk@athena.mit.edu (David M Pesetsky)
Subject: Re: SVO / VSO
Organization: Massachusetts Institute of Technology
Date: Mon, 28 Sep 1992 21:07:16 GMT

In article <1992Sep28.142016.13855@midway.uchicago.edu> goer@midway.uchicago.edu writes:
>
>Given the already extremely anglocentric nature of generative grammar, it
>is a bit suspicious, isn't it?  Given the logical unity of predicate (V-O) and
>subject (S), isn't it clear why order-happy linguists would want them to
>be discrete and non-interleaved?  I hate to hear bad stuff said of Richard
>Sproat, though...

Forgive the rudeness, but please read the literature before passing off
sociological speculation as fact.  "Order-happy linguists would want
them to be discrete and non-interleaved" indeed.  The prevailing wisdom
10 years ago held that there were "non-configurational" and
"configurational" languages, with different laws governing the two
types.  VSO languages were supposed to lie in the non-configurational
camp, to one degree or another.  Chung's earlier work on Chamorro, for
example, posited that VSO order involves at most a "virtual" VP. It was
a set of empirical results by many investigators looking at a number of
languages that pulled the field in the other direction.  Serious people
doing serious work cannot be dismissed by idle taunts.  You go out and
show that these results are wrong, and then you too can influence the
field.

-David Pesetsky