From: cramer@optilink.UUCP (Clayton Cramer)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
Subject: Re: The Literary Canon
Date: 17 Aug 92 18:30:06 GMT
Organization: Optilink Corporation, Petaluma, CA

In article <JMC.92Aug16002621@SAIL.Stanford.EDU>, jmc@SAIL.Stanford.EDU (John McCarthy) writes:
> In article <1992Aug15.211500.2458@nic.csu.net> john@csufres.CSUFresno.EDU (John Q. Generic) writes:
> 
>    In article <JMC.92Aug15184604@SAIL.Stanford.EDU> jmc@cs.Stanford.EDU writes:
>    >I will repeat my much earlier contention that there is a world culture
>    >today that is predominantly founded on Western culture.  Western
>    >culture itself is partly founded, before say 1450, on non-Western
>    >cultures, but until say 1950 ran autonomously.  Therefore, Western
> 
>    What about the massive interest in the East that drove exploration
>    during the first half of the period you mention?  Are you denying any
>    influence from the New World?  I think autonomous is too strong of a
>    word. 
> 
> I won't deny the possibility of some cultural influence from the
> new world, but I can't think of much.  Would you count Rousseau's
> writing about the noble savage as cultural influence from the New
> World?  It seems to me that Rousseau made up his noble savages.
> Can you think of a cultural habit from the New World that spread
> through the Old World like the potato spread?  Does smoking
> tobacco count for much?  The old world got the tobacco plant,
> and the information that it is smokable.
> --
> John McCarthy, Computer Science Department, Stanford, CA 94305

Remember, when in doubt, make it up.  For example, I've seen
the claim made (fortunately, not in a scholarly work, but in a
student newspaper, which is close to the antithesis of scholarly
work) that democracy developed in America first, because of the
tradition of democracy among the American Indians, and that this
is where the Founding Fathers got the idea.

Of course, there are serious problems with such a claim:

1. Democracy was a dirty word at the beginning of the American
Republic.  "Ragged Matt the Democrat" was used as an insult to
one of the members of the First Congress.

2. While Jefferson wrote very approvingly of the eloquence of
some Indian chiefs (even when he couldn't understand the words --
now THERE'S an opportunity for some serious deconstructionist
screeching), the overwhelming evidence of debates is that the
traditions of representative government came from Italy, Switzerland,
and England -- not from the Indians.

There is no question that Western culture includes some
elements borrowed from other cultures, and it is both interesting
and humbling to understand to what extent Western culture has
gained from other cultures.  But there is a strong tendency today
to lump all evil in the world today as Western culture's 
heritage, and ignore anything good that came from the West.
The expression, "Throwing out Newton with Nagasaki," comes to mind.

-- 
Clayton E. Cramer {uunet,pyramid}!optilink!cramer  My opinions, all mine!
I can make myself popular on USENET again -- all I have to say is that I'm not 
disturbed by the support for North American Man-Boy Love Association in the 
homosexual community.  Being popular at a child's expense isn't worth it.
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