From: daveshao@leland.stanford.edu (David Shao)
Newsgroups: soc.religion.christian
Subject: Re: Death Penalty
Date: 11 Jan 93 08:42:51 GMT
Organization: DSG, Stanford University, CA 94305, USA

In article <Jan.8.00.23.42.1993.2363@farside.rutgers.edu> tapvalli@sara.cc.utu.fi writes:
>In article <Jan.7.01.13.41.1993.6018@geneva.rutgers.edu>, 
>jwmorris@oasys.dt.navy.mil (Jeff Morris) writes:
>
>> Second, while the Law says we shall not murder, it does not prohibit
>> all killing (i.e. self-defense, executions).
>
>  Interesting enough, but in Ten Commandments (at least, in my version)
>  it says 'thou shall not kill'. In my opinion, that sounds like very
>  explicit way of prohibiting *all* killing, doesn't it?
>  
>> God says that anyone who murders shall lose his own life.  
>
>  No, it was Hammurabi, who said this. Remember, "An eye for an eye"?
>  Does your God speak to you like this often? I am really getting worried,
>  because with your attitude we are soon re-employing witch hunts and 
>  other interesting stuff from medieval age.

>
>> We are expected to exact such punishments on those who are guilty.  
>
>  We?? Don't include me in your blood sports:)
>
>	 Merry Killings and Happy Holy wars, Tapsa
>
>Sarcastic?? Who?? Not me!
>

Opponents of the death penalty need a better argument than this.
It is clear from the rest of the Bible that the commandment against
murder did not apply to the just punishment of crime.  

Think of when the repentent thief died on the cross.  Could not Jesus
have used a miracle to spare this man's life at a time when the faith
needed powerful witness the most?  But the Lord allowed the thief
to die and have no works whatsoever other than his final words:

  And one of the malefactors which were hanged railed on him,
  saying, If thou be the Christ, save thyself and us.

  But the other rebuked him, saying, Dost not thou fear God,
  seeing thou art in the same condemnation?

  And we indeed justly; for we receive the due reward of our deeds:
  but this man hath done nothing amiss.

  And he said unto Jesus, Lord, remember me when thou comest into
  thy kingdom.         (Luke 23: 39-42  KJV)

In the parable of the wicked husbandmen Jesus describes the evil
of the tenants in the parable, concluding with

  But when the husbandmen saw the son, they said among themselves,
  `This is the heir; come, let us kill him, and and let us seize
  on his inheritance.' 

  And they caught him, and cast him out of the vineyard, and 
  slew him.    (Matthew 21: 38-39)

Jesus then asks the chief priests and the elders
 
  When the lord therefore of the vineyard cometh, what will he
  do unto those husbandmen?  (Matthew 21: 40)

They answer

  He will miserably destroy those wicked men, and will let out
  his vineyard unto other husbandmen, which shall render him
  the fruits in their seasons.  (Matthew 21: 41)

Jesus then uses their answer to pronounce judgment upon them.  Now
does one believe Jesus would have approved if they had
responded that the householder pardoned the tenants and let them
escape punishment?  The evil that Jesus is attacking is not
the punishment, it's the tenants' treatment of the servants and the
son and their refusal to hand over the produce.  The Lord's call 
for justice is not properly answered by denying the existence of
sin.

In the parable of the wedding feast Jesus says of the king whose
kingdom is compared to the kingdom of heaven

  And the remnant took his servants, and entreated them spitefully,
  and slew them.

  But when the king heard thereof, he was wroth:  and he sent forth
  his armies, and destroyed those murderers, and burned up their
  city.                Matthew 22: 6-7 KJV

The Bible is filled with explicit and implicit statements of approval
of capital punishment.

Now some earnest Christians would support the death penalty were it not 
for passages where Jesus warns against judging others.  Let me suggest
an analogy.  In any finite number of words there is only a limited
amount of information which can be conveyed.  In particular, it is
not easy for us to in one or two sentences to completely express what
we wish to say.  In a textbook on for example physics, any one 
sentence taken from the book is probably false unless the sentence
is read in context to qualify its scope.  (Do objects always fall with
constant acceleration on Earth?)

Furthermore, each person uses language in his or her own unique way.
A particular word may have a different meaning depending upon the
person.  This is why in any face to face interaction between people
there is constant repetition and rephrasing as a check to see whether
the right meaning is being communicated.

I view the Bible as God's textbook for us.  I believe it to be 
philosophically inerrant, that is, there are no contradictions in
it about what is right and what is wrong.  I am thus driven to try
and reconcile seemingly inconsistent ideas, for I know that they
real problem is my lack of understanding, and not a flaw in the
text.

To understand the passages on judgment then we need to read them
bearing in mind that they must be consistent with the rest of the
Bible.  In the context of Jesus's ministry, let me suggest the
following.  First, He viewed his ministry as being to the Jews.
Therefore, when He advocates nonviolence he is telling the Jewish
people that the cycle of redemption through a military leader as
portrayed throughout the Old Testament is no longer in effect.
God's plan is not for a Jewish leader to expel the Roman legions
in battle.  Second, Jesus is denouncing the type of judgment which
would today correspond to stereotyping.  He is saying that people
other than the upper middle class can be the salt of the earth.
Instead of saying that destructive lifestyles are acceptable, and
that once caught in them people should not seek to escape because
that is who they are, Jesus is offering the means of redemption,
of casting off spiritual slavery to sin.  That is why He asks for
repentence and a renounciation of destructive lifestyles.  But 
those who are content, with a stable family and a good income,
might not see the importance of salvation, and might not recognize
God's admonitions in Scripture to help the oppressed because they
feel that "they deserve it."  

In constant struggle, in constant asking of the Lord about his
meaning, in constant rereading and contemplation I believe that one
develops depth in understanding Scripture.  The Bible is filled with
passages where justice is administered only through ruthless violence.
We must come to terms with these passages, not dismiss them as being
the products of philosophically undeveloped savages.  

The argument over captital punishment is merely one small battle in
the larger war over the meaning and direction of Christian faith.
Some have chosen to seek their grounding in Scripture.  Some have
chosen to follow more current secular philosophies.  The differences
may be irreconcilable.

But I ask of the opponents of the death penalty to not dismiss we
proponents with a wave of the hand using Scripture.  From the
perspective of the Bible we have the stronger position, the stronger
arguments, the stronger support.  To assert that we have no arguments
at all is intellectual dishonesty.

Yours in Christ
David Shao