From: viking@iastate.edu (Dan Sorenson)
Subject: Re: Eating killed animals (was Re: Gun Control Petition)
Organization: Iowa State University, Ames IA
Date: Fri, 25 Dec 1992 08:36:21 GMT

[NOTE: After much ado in my mailbox, I'll keep this in Canada newsgroups
until Rosemary or others decide it's of no interest.  Set your follow-ups
accordingly and press "n" if you're not interested.]

g9rwaigh@cdf.toronto.edu (Rosemary Waigh) writes:

> viking@iastate.edu (Dan Sorenson) writes:

>>	Now then, on the front end you place a pair of specialized
>>pliers over the horns and squeeze.  The horn is pulled cleanly from the
>>skull socket, exposing the artery.  The artery is then grabbed with a
>>hemostats, stretched, and snipped with a scissors.  This causes the
>>artery to retract into the skull and clot.  A few shakes of sulfa
>>powder to fight infection and that end is done.

>Is any anesthetic used?  Is the procedure done by people with veterinary
>training?

	A vet supervises, if he doesn't perform the procedure himself.
At the very least somebody with extensive experience performs the procedure,
since a bleeder (an artery that doesn't clot) will cause death in a fairly
short time, and we're after profit here -- dead livestock don't pay bills.
This procedure is so simple a vet is not required to do it, but his
presence is a considerable comfort.  And no, there is no anaesthetic used.
Why should there be?  My tibia wasn't set with an aneasthetic, nor was it
broken with one, and frankly it wasn't that painful.  If you have ever
had a bone set, or had a dislocated joint set, it's a similar action and
hence I suspect a similar amount of pain.  Note also that anaesthetic is
not needed for brief pain in animals or humans.  It merely increases the
risk of reaction, the time, and the cost.  I still know dentists who do
not use anaesthetic, and quite a few doctors who do not.  There is a big
difference between setting or breaking a bone and performing surgery.
(FYI: tibia broken in 20mph encounter with a '63 Chevy while motorcycling)

>Again, is any anesthetic used?  Is the procedure done by people with
>veterinary training?

	See above.  With castration, the same applies.

>A while back I posted excerpts of an article from _Cattleman_ magazine,
>a Canadian beef industry journal, in talk.politics.animals.  The article
>indicated that both the surgical and elastrator methods of castration caused
>some pain.  If anyone cares I can repost the article next week when I return
>from my holiday.

	I'm sure they do.  I'm in some pain right now, simply because I did
a bit of lifting today and my back is bothering me a touch.  It's not even
worth taking an aspirin for, let alone a local injection.  What is this
fascination with pain people have?  It seems they would rather go through
life numb rather than suffer the brief pain of popping a pimple, let alone
getting a paper cut or having a bone set.  Pain can be tolerated; it is
merely a sensory perception of something happening that is not the
normal operating procedure.  Big deal.  I've gone through more
invasive procedures than I wish to recount without aneasthetic, and at
no time was one really necessary or even needed.  Get off the pain kick,
Rosemary -- I am under no obligation to cause absolutely no pain, and
likewise no pain has ever been a condition of my life.  Minimizing pain
is one thing, but to my mind a bit of pain can be tolerated and is
acceptable in many instances.  This is one of them.

>>	Note this isn't just what I've seen, it's what I've done for
>>years.  It is also, in my experience, more typical than the abuses
>>Rosemary had recited from _Diet for a New America_ I believe it was.

>To me what you have described is abusive, and is comparable to what is
>documented in _Diet_for_a_new_America_.

	And to me, what you find abusive I find perfectly palatable (a
bit of a pun intended) and have also found to be SOP in many instances
regarding humans.  Face it, Rosemary, life isn't easy and painless.  To
me, you're just shrieking that something might be uncomfortable and
possibly painless.  I can only wonder if you'll be under local or
general anaesthesia should you give birth, and I even wonder which you
will choose to have a wart burned off.  Both are painful, you know, but
the extent to which pain intrudes upon you varies.  Frankly, from the
reactions of the cattle and pigs, even a local is overkill, and if you
wish I can tell you that a good spanking from parents is far more
painful than any of the procedures performed upon me without
anaesthetic.  If pain is the absolute criterion in your life, I highly
recommend an IV drip of morphine.  I've had it, and it's *WONDERFUL*.
No pain, and no cares.  At all.  Try it.  Then tell me why a terminal
cancer patient can only rarely get it at will while some people
seem to wish novocane be required for clipping the nails of my ferrets.

< Dan Sorenson, DoD #1066 z1dan@exnet.iastate.edu viking@iastate.edu >
<  ISU only censors what I read, not what I say.  Don't blame them.  >
<  "This isn't an answer, it's a pagan dance around a midnight fire  >
<   written in intellectual runes." -- Rich Young                    >