HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: hoosiers@carson.u.washington.edu (Mary Loveless)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
Subject: Re: Stein and Hemingway (was: *Any* kind of r.a.b. split...)
Date: 28 Dec 1992 17:15:57 GMT
Organization: University of Washington, Seattle
NNTP-Posting-Host: carson.u.washington.edu

In article <1992Dec26.184949.340@panix.com> mtaranto@panix.com (Mark Taranto) writes:
>
>
>hhenderson@vax.clarku.edu (Heather) writes:
>
>[interesting and thoughtful response to Michael Wise deleted]
>
>
>Good article.
>
>Mark

I agree, Mark.  I have watched the whole series of exchanges with rapt
attention, and Heather, I appreciate your reasoned and balanced response.

 Mary Loveless  hoosiers@carson.u.washington.edu
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
All of my opinions are self-righteously my own and **certainly** have
nothing to do with the University of Washington.

"Too much of a good thing can be wonderful."  Mae West

"I wonder how I'd look in *Madonna's* underwear."  Zippy the Pinhead
------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
From: dani@netcom.com (Dani Zweig)
Subject: Re: Project B.F.D. (was: An apology)
Organization: Netcom Online Communications Services (408-241-9760 login: guest)
Date: Tue, 22 Dec 1992 01:10:39 GMT

pnh@panix.com (Patrick Nielsen-Hayden):
>Admittedly, there's lots of self-actualization potential in the
>shining-armor routine...

It may be more a lack of alternatives.  Who was it who said "You can
pretend to be wise, but you can't pretend to be witty"?

-----
Dani Zweig
dani@netcom.com

Roses red and violets blew
  and all the sweetest flowres that in the forrest grew -- Edmund Spenser
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
From: ekman@netcom.com (Crossly the Glad-Eyed Bear)
Subject: Re: Mangled song lyrics (was: Cultural Appropriation and the New Age)
Organization: Home for the Terminally Infirm
Date: Wed, 30 Dec 1992 18:01:49 GMT

In article <1hs4avINN8nn@usenet.INS.CWRU.Edu> bh419@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Ted B Samsel) writes:
>
>Then there's the children's song GLADLY THE CROSSEYED BEAR.....

And, in the spirit of the Christmas season:

While shepherds washed their socks by night....
-- 
Crossly the Glad-Eyed Bear              ekman@netcom.com
Home for the Terminally Infirm, Redwood City, California
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books,news.groups
From: mnemonic@eff.org (Mike Godwin)
Subject: Re: *Any* kind of r.a.b split, or at least a *serious* discussion
Originator: mnemonic@eff.org
Organization: Electronic Frontier Foundation
Date: Wed, 23 Dec 1992 03:16:12 GMT

In article <23DEC92.01535476@vax.clarku.edu> hhenderson@vax.clarku.edu writes:

>But if you want to whine about the behavior of "guests" as though
>rec.arts.books is a private party for you and your friends, you can ram your
>inconsequential remarks up your ass.

Don't repress, Heather. Try to tell us how you *really* feel about it.


--Mike



-- 
Mike Godwin,    |"I'm waiting for the one-man revolution
mnemonic@eff.org| The only one that's coming."
(617) 864-0665  |                           
EFF, Cambridge  |                   --Robert Frost
From: mtaranto@panix.com (Mark Taranto)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
Subject: Re: *Impromptu*
Date: 1 Jan 93 22:25:26 GMT
Organization: The Inner Clique


s1mbm@isuvax.iastate.edu (michael bruce mcdonald) writes:

> Francis, thanks for mentioning this film, which is one that I dearly 
> love.  In fact, I highly recommend everything with Judy Davis in it
> (*Passage to India*, *Kangaroo*, *Naked Lunch*, *Barton Fink*, *Husbands
> and Wives*, and I'm sure there are more . . .).  Something there is about
> Judy Davis that absolutely drives me wild, not so much with lust, but with
> sheer desire for her presence . . . yet I remain a
> happily married man,

I agree with Michael's assessment of Judy Davis.

The first Judy Davis movie which I saw was MY BRILLIANT CAREER.
It is a wonderful movie -- but it is also a wonderful book, by Miles 
Franklin (1879-1954).  It is a novel which many people assumed was 
autobiographical.  She wrote it at age 16, and it was published 
when she was 21.  She would not allow it to be reprinted while 
she lived, because the book was viewed as pure autobiography.

Mark
From: dac@prolix.apana.org.au (Andrew Clayton)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
Subject: Re: Maddoxian flatus (was Re: Flatulence)
Date: Mon, 28 Dec 1992 06:36:30 GMT
 <RAwbs*4M0@prolix.apana.org.au> <1992Dec27.222452.20233@netcom.com>
Organization: More like Dis~, really.
X-Newsreader: Arn V1.00

In article <1992Dec27.222452.20233@netcom.com>, Tom Maddox writes:

> 	I am touched by your conviction that with a little effort my literary 
> efforts can be made to stand beside those of the immortals

A mere bagatelle.

> 	Perhaps your ambivalence is caused by two things.  First, you are
> overwhelmed by the magnificence of _Halo_, which is touching.

I was underwhelmed by your book, mostly because it wasn't
anywhere near as entertaining as most of the other SF books in my
collection, but partly because I thought you might be able to
write better than, say, Jean M. Auel. Instead I found that I was
the "proud" owner of a twee little work that meandered around,
getting precisely nowhere, and not doing anything interesting
in between.

Simon Ing's _Hot Head_ was a more vivacious work, by a very young
and much less qualified [or should I say 'crusty'?] person than
you pretend to be.

> the alternative explanation is that you were simply too stupid to inquire 
> about a paperback).

A snide allegation, fully filling the promise of the persona you
usually project into this, and other, newsgroups.

> Second, alas, you remember with some bitterness the time I
> called you Caliban, and you didn't know who that was.

What I recall was that you loudly proclaimed that you were a
clever sod, and I disputed your arrogant opinion.

Obviously your memory of the heady days of your short lived visit
to alt.flame, was brightened at the thought of being able to
trounce someone with your splenetic displays of "Tom, the
masterful erudite pedant in action." 

> I would have considered you more Bottom than Caliban perhaps (this time, 
> Andrew, ask someone who Bottom is, and don't get all petulant about your 
> ignorance).

With your ``huge, vast, boundless knowledge of English writing,''
is it merely manners on your part that you choose to equate me
with yet another Shakespearian character?  Droll, Tom.  And I
would wager that such a tired pedestrian progression was about
the limit of your sense of fair play.

Do have fun being a pompous ass. One, after all, should excel at
what one is truly interested in.

Dac
--
dac@prolix.apana.org.au              David Andrew Clayton.           // _| _  _
dac@prolix.sserve.cc.adfa.oz.au      Canberra, Australia           \X/ (_](_](_
                    <Using ARN on an Amiga 4000. Yay!>
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
From: hennebry@plains.NoDak.edu (Michael J. Hennebry)
Subject: Re: Morally good hypertext
Date: Wed, 23 Dec 1992 20:36:03 GMT
Organization: North Dakota Higher Education Computing Network

In article <1992Dec23.161048.7518@spdcc.com> dyer@spdcc.com (Steve Dyer) writes:
>engineers.  This is why Drexler's quote makes grown people chortle.

Some grown people think that the quote, taken out of context, which is the
only way I have ever seen it, says that when you see these bad things,
pause, think of hypertext, and realize that things could be much worse.

-- 
Mike   hennebry@plains.NoDak.edu
"I myself have had to change banks having filled the first one up."
                                                            Terry Pratchett
From: jzimm@ccwf.cc.utexas.edu (Joann Zimmerman)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
Subject: Re: Reading as an addiction (Was: 92 in rabreview)
Date: 1 Jan 93 20:13:41 GMT
     <1hvhr4INN1vo@FRIDGE.AI.CS.YALE.EDU> <31DEC199217501608@rigel.tamu.edu>
     <1993Jan1.020337.1@acad3.alaska.edu>
Organization: UT Art History
X-UserAgent: Nuntius v1.1



In article <31DEC199217501608@rigel.tamu.edu> SubGenius,
spb0457@rigel.tamu.edu writes:
>As far as `bizarre book behaviour,' I find that as a rule when
travelling I 
>cannot resist the urge to drive about any new town I'm passing through
looking 
>for its bookshops.  Or, in extreme cases, going slightly out of my way
in 
>order to visit any nearby large towns with the intention of scouting
them for

I've noticed one other interesting phenomenon. I'm unable to be in a new
town without opening up the Yellow Pages to the "book dealer" section.
Points assigned on proportion of proper book shops to those "Christian"
places that sell more prayer books and fishy bumper stickers than
anything else. Oh, the terror of being in a place with five Bible Book
Stores and no Den of Novels. I start feeling very itchy, and become
desirous of leaving. I also begin to suspect, rightly, the quality of the
cuisine.
--

"They like sitting around reading all the books there are. And then they 
love arguing about them. Some of those arguments go on for millenium 
after millenium. It just seems to keep them young, for some reason, 
arguing about books." -- Julian Barnes          

Joann Zimmerman (jzimm@ccwf.cc.utexas.edu)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
From: elekokws@nusunix1.nus.sg (Kok Wai Sung)
Subject: help to find a book
Organization: National University of Singapore
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1 PL6]
Date: Tue, 22 Dec 1992 06:15:06 GMT


my last post got eaten by the mailer, so here's goes again.

I'm looking for a book on Shakespeare's plays, it is a collection
of insults used in the plays. I believe it was used in some UK
prison as a text book for English literature.

please send me the ISBN # if you know this book.
please reply by email to elekokws@nuscc.nus.sg as I don't read
this newsgroup often.
thanks and merry christmas.
-wa
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books,alt.news-media
From: robj@netcom.com (Rob Jellinghaus)
Subject: Re: Morally good hypertext
Organization: Netcom Online Communications Services (408-241-9760 login: guest)
Distribution: net
Date: Wed, 23 Dec 1992 03:23:33 GMT

In article <15213.2b37800c@ohstpy.mps.ohio-state.edu> wagner@ohstpy.mps.ohio-state.edu writes:
>In article <1992Dec22.215515.27418@netcom.com>, robj@netcom.com (Rob Jellinghaus) writes:
>> No one is claiming future hypertext systems will be a panacea.  But I
>> see no reason to claim, _a priori_, that any such system--no matter
>> how widely distributed, how anarchically organized, and how open to
>> general discourse--will simply wind up suffering from exactly the same
>> problems of our current one-way, single-source, mass media.
>> uunet!netcom!robj  |       -- K. Eric Drexler, _Engines of Creation_
...
>My optimistic techie friend, what makes you think that people disinclined
>to walk to look at books to settle some question of fact will start 
>clattering on keyboards?

I never claimed that hypertext would magically make everyone in the
world into a dedicated and skilled researcher.  Nor did I claim it
would magically induce couch potatoes to begin writing avidly.

>In fact, usenet is growing so fast that the speed required to keep all
>that information stored will exceed c (3x10^10 cm/s) soon. No trouble
>with relativity, though, because no information is being transmitted.

Then why do _you_ bother with usenet?  Think of a hypertext system as
a much friendlier, richer, and larger version of Usenet.  Might that
not be decidedly useful to at least some of the population?

>Then think again about whether hypertext will stop
>lying demagogues who make you feel good about the world and your 
>place in it.

I also never claimed hypertext would wholly supplant current media,
with all their associated problems, nor that hypertext would spawn no
new problems of its own.  And ESPECIALLY not that it would eliminate
all lying and all demagogues.  At the most, it could make a lot more
good information immediately accessible to people interested in using
it.  Yes, that cuts both ways.

I'm not interested in persuading the entire net that hypertext will be
the best thing since sliced bread.  It may well not even be true.  We
can continue this discussion, or I would be happy to agree to
disagree, at least until there actually _are_ some hypertext systems
of the sort Drexler is describing.  (No system has yet come close.)
If and when that happens, we can decide whether we'd rather resume the
discussion here on usenet, or there on whatever-it's-called.
-- 
Rob Jellinghaus    |  "Next time you see a lie being spread or a bad 
robj@netcom.com    |   decision being made out of sheer ignorance,
robj@xanadu.com    |   pause, and think of hypertext."
uunet!netcom!robj  |       -- K. Eric Drexler, _Engines of Creation_
From: jzimm@ccwf.cc.utexas.edu (Joann Zimmerman)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
Subject: Re: Rabelaisian pieces about farting (Was Re: Ngaio Marsh info requested)
Keywords: braaap
Date: 23 Dec 92 23:24:22 GMT
Organization: The University of Texas at Austin, Austin TX

In article <1992Dec21.231126.25984@eff.org> mnemonic@eff.org (Mike Godwin) writes:

>In article <BzMrpC.6BD@mentor.cc.purdue.edu> kelley@vet.vet.purdue.edu (Stephen Kelley) writes:

>>- Mike Godwin writes:

>>- 	I'm trying to think of some non-Rabelaisian pieces about farting. 
>>- 	Are there any?

>>"Enderby", by Anthony Burgess.

>You're saying Burgess is not Rabelaisian in this book? He certainly is
>in some others.

Interesting question: Does "Rabelaisian" mean "like Rabelais, in the
spirit of Rabelais" or does it mean "specifically by Rabelais"?

If the former, then a lot of stuff qualifies; if the latter, only
Rabelais himself will do.

And are we taking "like Rabelais" to mean any of Rabelais' subject
matter, or limiting it to stuff that fits Bakhtin's definition of
"carnivalesque," which is at least as much (in my view) a social and
class definition as it is of subject matter. (Here, Jack Campin! Here!)

I will digress at this point to recommend Michael Camille's _Image on
the Edge_, a discussion of the imagery in the margins of medieval
manuscripts. It is Camille's position that these marginal images
show societally marginal activities. Sex and defecation are most
prominent, and much reference is made to Bakhtin, carnival, Rabelais
and Foucault. I don't entirely agree with Camille's thesis for
methodological reasons (I just wrote a paper on all this) but it's
still an interesting book, and gives a rare glimpse into one of the
more bizarre byways of medieval studies.


-- 
"Every passion borders on the chaotic, but the collector's passion
borders on the chaos of memories" 
                                                -- Walter Benjamin
 ...!cs.utexas.edu!ccwf.cc.utexas.edu!jzimm   
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
From: dyer@spdcc.com (Steve Dyer)
Subject: Re: Bullshit (was: *Any* kind of r.a.b. split, or at least a *serious*
Organization: S.P. Dyer Computer Consulting, Cambridge MA
Date: Thu, 24 Dec 1992 08:25:53 GMT

In article <24DEC92.06545989@vax.clarku.edu> hhenderson@vax.clarku.edu writes:
>Barbara said:
>>>>People who engage in what passes for communication here have to 
>>>>understand that we, collectively, form a brand-new culture, one 
>>>>that has a life of its own.  Not everyone is comfortable with its 
>>>>manners and rituals as they've more or less evolved, just as not 
>>>>everyone in the world is comfortable eating with knives and forks, 
>>>>or with chopsticks; it's not Their Way.  But it's the way it is *here*. 
>
>How would you interpret these remarks?

This is simply stating the obvious, and it's not a phenomenon limited
to electronic communication.  Imagine a group of people who have become
familiar with each other through working and talking with each other
over time.  Someone wanders in (completely freely, of course), starts
participating, and has no idea of what has gone on before.  Such a
person is probably going to misconstrue exchanges, and an intelligent
person lays low until they get a feel for what the status quo is.
Someone who is oblivious to this, or someone who just doesn't care
about this aspect of social interactions, might make a mistake or two
and occasionally be called on it.  Now, this can happen both in face-to-face
organizations and here on r.a.b.  That's just the way it is.  Railing
against the "clique" is a waste of energy.  The clique disappears as you
rub your rough edges against the other participants, thereby becoming part
of the group.  That is, unless you insist on filing and sharpening them
by cries of "bullshit", etc.  Get over it, Heather.  Get off the topic,
get off your butt and start participating, and this will be done and finished
with.  The net has a short memory, and you're only as good as your last
article.  (Except in the case of MZ, of course!)

>Can you say that any attempt at courtesy and politeness is rendered
>meaningless because someone, somewhere, won't understand it?  Is there no
>common ground of civility?  Of decency?  Of honor?
>If there is no such common ground, why do we bother talking at all?

I must admit that I didn't pay much attention to this little tempest
until these cries of "bullshit".  Strange to see pleas for civility
coming from the same author!  I'm always one for a well-placed profanity
as punctuation; it can be useful as irony or to make a point, but I
think you can stop flogging this horse; it's been dead a while and it's
beginning to stink.

-- 
Steve Dyer
dyer@ursa-major.spdcc.com aka {ima,harvard,rayssd,linus,m2c}!spdcc!dyer
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
From: yarnot@babbage.csus.edu (Jan Yarnot)
Subject: Re: 92 in rabreview
Organization: Moi?
Date: Wed, 30 Dec 92 23:36:06 GMT

In article <1992Dec30.204310.4367@netcom.com> dani@netcom.com (Dani Zweig) writes:
>Jan Yarnot:
>>I've had an eventful r.a.b. year.  I read some 220 books...
>
>Whether I'm way over that or Not Even Close depends on what counts
>as having read a book.  Does schlock sf count?  Does rereading favorite
>schlock (sf and other genres) count?  Do children's books count?  How
>about graphic novels?

Yes of course, yes of course, depends on if it's _The Secret Garden_ or
_Goodnight Moon_ (length and relative difficulty, not quality), and
*comic books*???? You're kidding, right?

(I would be a good deal higher if we counted all the comic strip collections
I tend to gather... but then we might start counting newspapers, netnews,
magazines, cereal packets...)

>Dani Zweig
>
--
---Jan Yarnot, net.grandma.-- | When you go out into the world,
			      | watch out for traffic, hold hands,
                              | and stick together.
CSUS depends on my every word.|             --Robert Fulghum
From: joem@meaddata.com (Joe Mehrle)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
Subject: Request: History books
Date: 22 Dec 1992 14:50:39 GMT
Organization: Mead Data Central, Dayton OH
Distribution: world
NNTP-Posting-Host: baseball.meaddata.com

I am new to this group so excuse me if I am not following protocol.
I am determined to self-educate myself extensively on American History
and Politics.  So, I want to develop a list of books to read starting
with the Magna Carta period (1254 ?) and working up through the Bush
years.  So, to all the informed readers out there I would greatly
appreciate your recommendations via e-mail, especially books starting
with the Magna Carta era up through the civil war.  Thanks in advance.


-- 
Joe Mehrle                       "I don't know why I
Mead Data Central, Dayton, Ohio   did it, I don't know why I liked it,
Internet: joem@meaddata.com       and I don't know why I'll do it again"
UUCP:     !uunet!meaddata!joem           -Bart Simpson-
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
From: don@helix.nih.gov (donald seto)
Subject: Re: For newbies (was: Re: Project B.F.D. (was: An apology))
Organization: National Institutes of Health, Bethesda
Date: Mon, 21 Dec 1992 23:17:00 GMT

In article <1992Dec21.222446.7832@samba.oit.unc.edu> joan@med.unc.edu (Joan Shields) writes:
>thoughtfully.  I can at least appreciate a good arguement, whether or not
>I necessarily agree with the point taken.
>
>
wouldn't it be better if we all just got along....

--
don@helix.nih.gov
301-402-0580   Bldg10/Rm8D14    NIDDK/NIH       Bethesda, MD  20892
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
From: hhenderson@vax.clarku.edu
Subject: RE: Impromptu
Organization: Clark University
Date: 1 JAN 93 03:43:37 GMT

Francis Muir writes: 

>After a morning's sail out into San Francisco Bay in a fresh breeze 
>and myself suitably wrapped up in foulies, I spent part of the afternoon 
>watching IMPROMPTU, a film largely about Armandine Aurore Lucie Dupin, 
>baronne Dudevant. Better known to most of you, perhaps, as the author 
>George Sand. It turned out to my delight to be quite superior entertainment,
>and I recommend it both for a peek at a remarkable person and as a piece 
>of pleasant fluff. Quite early on it did occur to me that George Sand 
>was very Heather_Hendersonian, and I am looking forward to seeing HH 
>dressed up in that very fetching Louis Napoleonic outfit. 

Well, this is a first.  Nobody else has ever connected me with George Sand. 
I have it on good psychic authority that my soul goes back no further than
Roger Bresnahan (Hall of Fame, 1945), catcher and manager for 17 years in the
majors, the inventor of the shin guard.  Feisty, Irish, and short.  I don't
know about the Louis Napoleonic outfit, but I look nifty in flannels.

Heather
HHENDERSON@vax.clarku.edu 
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
From: mnemonic@eff.org (Mike Godwin)
Subject: Re: *Any* kind of r.a.b split, or at least a *serious* discussion
Originator: mnemonic@eff.org
Organization: Electronic Frontier Foundation
Date: Mon, 21 Dec 1992 21:15:38 GMT

In article <102840@netnews.upenn.edu> crawford@ben.dev.upenn.edu (Lauren L. Crawford) writes:

>Here's one vote that says stay.  

It would be as crazy for Mark Taranto to depart as it would be for Heather
Henderson to. 

Incidentally, I have it on good authority that every time someone posts
that he or she "doesn't believe anyone in rec.arts.books is talking about
books," a little r.a.b.worm dies somewhere.

Ob. Author Reference: J.M. Barrie


--Mike



-- 
Mike Godwin,    |"I'm waiting for the one-man revolution
mnemonic@eff.org| The only one that's coming."
(617) 864-0665  |                           
EFF, Cambridge  |                   --Robert Frost