HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: matt@physics2.berkeley.edu (Matt Austern)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
Subject: Re: Vernor Vinge's new book...
Date: 25 Jan 93 20:12:31 GMT
	<106183@netnews.upenn.edu> <1993Jan25.192653.12088@genie.slhs.udel.edu>
Reply-To: matt@physics.berkeley.edu
Organization: Lawrence Berkeley Laboratory (Theoretical Physics Group)
NNTP-Posting-Host: physics2.berkeley.edu
In-reply-to: nancy@genie.slhs.udel.edu's message of Mon, 25 Jan 1993 19:26:53 GMT

In article <1993Jan25.192653.12088@genie.slhs.udel.edu> nancy@genie.slhs.udel.edu (Nancy Lebovitz) writes:

> I agree, too. The fake usenet was just about the only thing about the
> book I *didn't* like. 
> 
> I was dubious about a lynch mob building up on the net there--the real
> net doesn't seem to have many possibilities for turning readers into an
> enraged mob, and I expect that this would be even truer if there are
> more delays and multiple species of readers.

Except that there was no lynch mob in the book: there was one
power-hungry empire that posted racist messages to conceal its true
aims.  If those messages did anything at all, it was only to keep
anybody else from interering.  (Not that interference would have been
all that likely anyway.)

The Net messages were a bit too lifelike to seem realistic: it's hard
to imagine that level of immaturity when the participants are entire
civilizations, and when posting costs a noticeable fraction of one's
planetary wealth.  Still, even that isn't completely implausible: what
we're reading isn't the postings themselves, but the translations of
the translations of the translations of the postings.  We can imagine
that the postings seem more sensible to the alien civilizations that
posted them than they do to us, and that the sophomoric flavor of many
of the postings is just the way that the translation programs attempt
to deal with what are really incomprehensibly alien viewpoints.
--
Matthew Austern                   Just keep yelling until you attract a
(510) 644-2618                    crowd, then a constituency, a movement, a
austern@lbl.bitnet                faction, an army!  If you don't have any
matt@physics.berkeley.edu         solutions, become a part of the problem!
From: pjs@euclid.JPL.NASA.GOV (Peter J. Scott)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
Subject: Bruce McAllister / Bibliographies on the net
Date: 26 Jan 1993 18:13:59 GMT
Organization: Jet Propulsion Laboratory, NASA/Caltech
Distribution: world
Reply-To: pjs@euclid.jpl.nasa.gov
NNTP-Posting-Host: euclid.jpl.nasa.gov

Friend asked what I knew about Bruce McAllister and all I'd heard
was the name, which was all my s-f-minded friends knew either.
I used xgopher and xwais and came up with references to a story of
his in "Alien Sex" and a book edited by "McAllister and Harrison",
presumably him and Harry.

What else is there to this McAllister fellow and are there s-f
bibliographies on the net?  Couldn't find anything with xwais
and xgopher besides the above.

-- 
This is news.  This is your       |    Peter Scott, NASA/JPL/Caltech
brain on news.  Any questions?    |    (pjs@euclid.jpl.nasa.gov)
From: ig25@fg70.rz.uni-karlsruhe.de (Thomas Koenig)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
Subject: Re: Pern/Computers, and DOS
Date: 23 Jan 93 13:14:07 GMT
Organization: University of Karlsruhe, Germany
NNTP-Posting-Host: fg70.rz.uni-karlsruhe.de

sl7sg@cc.usu.edu writes:

>	Anyhow, I just finished reading the last pern book, and I was hit with
>something odd.  Did you notice that when the AI told Jarom (sp?) to run a
>program onboard the ship, to turn the shields on (during a swarm of thread,
>still in space) it said run DESTROY.EXE
>	Don't you think that is odd, you would have thought they would have
>gotten away from dos, by that timeperiod...(at least the .exe extension).
>	also, I wonder what type of computer Anne Mccaffery uses?   :)

Well, well, looks like DEC's Alpha chip running VMS will have a longer
lifecycle than most of us expected ;-)
-- 
Thomas Koenig, ig25@rz.uni-karlsruhe.de, ig25@dkauni2.bitnet
The joy of engineering is to find a straight line on a double logarithmic
diagram.
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
From: gac2@kimbark.uchicago.edu (Geoffrey A. Coulter)
Subject: Re: Aes Sedai
Keywords: Sedai, Templar, Masonry
Reply-To: gac2@midway.uchicago.edu
Organization: University of Chicago
Date: Sun, 24 Jan 1993 07:47:54 GMT

In article <1jn8f4INNqn8@sumax.seattleu.edu> harrity@sumax.seattleu.edu (Zak) writes:
>Just a couple little tidbits I've come across in the recent past, sorry if
>I'm repeating something you already know:
>
>Aes Sedai:
>
>	For the longest time, nobody I've known or seen the writings of
>has been able to come up with any "real-world" tradition/myth/religion
>that fits the concept of Aes Sedai.  However, I've recently been given to
>know that El Shadai is, if my source was right, a Hebrew term for God. 
>Sorry...no leads on Saidin/Saidar, though.
>
>Grand Inquisitor General of the Children of the Light:
>
>	Or whatever the hell the term was..."Grand Inspector Inquisitor
>Whatever" is a similar term to a Masonic rank.
>
>Children of the Light:
>
>	American Quakers originally referred to themselves by this term.
>
>Whitecloaks:
>
>	An old (derogatory?) term for the Knights Templar.
>
>Sa'angreal:
>
>	The Sang Real = The Holy Grail (a fount of power).
>
>Shayol Ghul:
>
>	Sheol = Hebrew term for "hell"  (So what does "sharom" mean?)
>
>Anybody got any others?  One of these days, I'll compend a list.... :)
>
>Cheers,
>
>
>--
>Daniel John Kelly-Harrity ---------| |--------- "Sooner spit in a 
>Seattle University ----------------| |---------  Wolf's Eye,
>Seattle, Washington ---------------| |---------  than cross an
>USA 98122 -------------------------| |---------  Aes Sedai."
>
>  "Welcome to All Things Scottish...If it's not Scottish, It's *CRAP*!"

Perhaps working on this question from a Scottish end might help.  :-)
I think I have seen sedat used to mean wise or learned in Gaelic, and
since I know nothing about the grammar, perhaps sedai is a more
appropriate form?

Geoffrey Coulter
gac2@ellis.uchicago.edu
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
From: goodin@fraser.sfu.ca (Charles Frederick Goodin)
Subject: Re: Dave Duncan
Organization: Simon Fraser University, Burnaby, B.C., Canada
Date: Thu, 28 Jan 1993 17:02:35 GMT

altam@ocf.berkeley.edu (Allen Tam) writes:

>In article <TOMW.93Jan8193853@orac.asd.sgi.com> tomw@asd.sgi.com writes:
>>
>>EaC is the fourth book in the first series.  TEC is the first book in
>>the second series.  You should be able to find Eac.  It's been out for a
>>while.
>>

>So does _The_Cutting_Edge continue from where _Emperor_and_Clown left
     The Cutting Edge continues 10+ years from where Emperor and Clown left
off, with some new characters, but also with Rap and Inos (and their kids)!
I got it from the local library a while ago, so I don't remember all of the
details, but it's definitely up to the previous four books in quality.
Love the magic system, love the "races".  Can't wait for the second one!
>I'm curious, because I've yet to see it in bookstores yet

> Allen Tam


Organization: Center for Machine Translation, Carnegie Mellon, Pittsburgh, PA
From: w95_cook@wums.wustl.edu
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
Subject: Science catches SF
Date: 27 JAN 93 08:45:14 GMT
Organization: MIT PLASMA FUSION CENTER
NNTP-Posting-Host: msnews.wustl.edu

There was a Times News Service article in the local paper yesterday
describing a Russian space experiment due to take place next month.  It
seems cosmonauts from the shuttle Progress will be unraveling about
65 square meters of reflective foil in space in an attempt to simulate
a "space mirror".  The Russian space agency envisions about 100 orbiting
space mirrors which would be able to reflect sunlight, thus extending 
the daylight hours of their farming communities, and providing a regular
number of daylight hours to the Siberian areas.

Perhaps more importantly for us, this will also be the first attempt at
maneuvering lightweight foil in space, in preparation for the first manned
craft powered by solar sail!  

Solar sails have been around in SF for decades, but it seems we could
actually see one in the years (perhaps decades, unfortunately) to come!

JC



_______________________________________________________________

Jim Cook
W95_COOK@wums.wustl.edu

_______________________________________________________________
From: cwalters@ducvax.auburn.edu
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
Subject: Looking for obscure O.S.Card and H.Ellison
Date: 27 Jan 93 14:15:34 GMT
Organization: Auburn University, AL

Hi all.

I'm trying to test out this new rare/hard-to-find book searcher
here in town, and I need some help... :)

A friend once told me of a book by Orson Scott Card called "Saint Speak:
<something I've forgotten>".  He had a co-writer on this thing, too. I
was reminded of it by a recent issue of SF-LOVERS Digest, which I 
managed to accidentally delete :(

Anyway, it's a book with some views on Mormonism, and if anyone out
there can tell me things like the full name, ythe other writer's name,
the publisher, the publication date, and so on, I'd appreciate it.

Also, I'm trying to get a list of Harlan Ellison books that are 
currently out of print or hard to find.  Any Harlan fans out there
who know of books that just aren't around anymore, please e-mail me.

Thanks a bunch, gang.

Christian Walters
dcwalter@dcw.b23b.ingr.com
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
From: cld@wucs1.wustl.edu (Christopher L. Davis)
Subject: Re: Jack Vance recommendations?
Organization: Washington University, St. Louis MO
Date: Fri, 22 Jan 1993 03:32:35 GMT

In article <TORKEL.93Jan20200651@bugs.sics.se> torkel@sics.se (Torkel Franzen)
writes about The Demon Princes novels, and
>
>  Another superb Vance series is the Planet of Adventure series (4 volumes).
>These exist, or at least they existed, in an omnibus volume.

Torkel is correct about the above series.  It is actually called:
Tschai: Planet of Adventure.  The books are as follows:
 City of the Chasch
 Servants of the Wankh
 The Dirdir
 The Pnume

 My paperbacks are quite old, but the story is quite good.  I will try to
 summarize.  

An Earth ship is shot down over a planet that has been newly discovered and
is being investigated (inhabited planet, that is).  The ship is shot down, 
and (ugh my memory is quite fuzzy here) somehow the story ends up being about
a single human, Adam Reith and his adventures in trying to get back to earth.
It seems that there are humans on Tschai (the planet), and have been there 
for quite some time.  No one believes Reith about Earth.  Four races have 
split up Tschai and govern those areas.  Each has fostered a different 
beginning for man that portrays man as a servant of the "greater race".  The
book is the story of Reith's trials and travails against these races and his
trying to get home.  Well, that's pretty much it.  Doesn't sound like much,
but I consider it a great story.  Check your local used book store.

Chris Davis   cld@wucs1.wustl.edu
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
From: krhill@naz.edu (Kenneth R. Hill)
Subject: Re: PIERS ANTHONYS XANTH BOOKS????????
Organization: Nazareth College of Rochester, NY
Date: Thu, 21 Jan 1993 21:05:36 GMT

In article <93020.123501U52025@uicvm.uic.edu>, <U52025@uicvm.uic.edu> writes:
>  Would someone give me a list of all of Piers Anthonys Xanth books in order
>  that they came out? 

Here you go.  Only the good ones though.
{which means all of them.}

1.) Spell For a Chameleon
2.) Source of The magic.
3.) Castle Roogna
4.) Centaur Aisle
5.) Ogre, Ogre
6.) Night Mare
7.) Dragon On A Pedestal
8.) Crewel Lye
9.) Golem In the Gears
10.) Vale Of the Vole
11.) Heaven Cent
12.) Man From Mundania
13.) Isle Of View
14.) Question Quest
15.) The Color of Her Panties 

Just one comment if #1 was the only good one, then how come the 
printed 14 more?  Could it be that a lot of people actually like them?
-- 
***********************************************************
* Disclaimer:						  *
*	The spelling in this document doesn't necessarily *
* represent the English language, or any other language   *
From: dave@cs.arizona.edu (Dave Schaumann)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
Subject: Ending of _Hemingway Hoax_
Date: 24 Jan 93 03:00:31 GMT
Reply-To: dave@cs.arizona.edu (Dave Schaumann)
Organization: University of Arizona

I just read Haldeman's _Hemingway Hoax_ (the novel version), and I'd
be interested in hearing what others have to say about the ending.

Here's my thoughts on the matter:

   *** SPOILERS ***

In a lot of ways, I was very impressed by this book.  In particular,
the changes as John Baird travels from universe to universe (both
in him and the other main characters) is quite impressive.  I also
like the way the "time police" aspect was used only enough to support
the main story.

I'm not familiar with Hemmingway's writing or style, so I can't really
address the accuracy of that aspect; it was certainly presented in a
way that doesn't leave non-initiates behind.


What I didn't like was the fact that while the "time police" aspect
supports the main story clearly, I can't see that any of the questions
it raised were ever answered:

  -Why was John Baird immune to the kill-stick?
  -Was the "unraveling of reality" avoided?
  -What was the motivating force behind these events?  Was it some
   deity (as John suggests) or something else?  Given the assumptions
   underlying the events, happenstance and coincidence don't quite wash.
  -As I read it, at the end, Baird becomes and/or merges with Hemingway.
   How does this fit with the rest of the story?

-- 
Yeah, right.
From: jc@crosfield.co.uk (jerry cullingford)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
Subject: Re: Covenant with AIDS
Date: 25 Jan 93 14:08:02 GMT
Organization: Crosfield Electronics, Hemel Hempstead, United Kingdom.

In article <1993Jan20.050904.5207@atlantis.uucp> aaron@atlantis.uucp writes:
>Would Thomas Covenant have worked with AIDS instead of leprosy?
>
>He wouldn't be able to determine the effects of the hurtloam as quickly,
>since I don't think AIDS has as perceptible symptoms as leprosy.  And the
>constant need for VSE's in leprosy doesn't really have an equivalent in AIDS.
>But a good writer could, perhaps, think of equivalents or merely obviate the
>need for them.

No, I don't think it could have worked.

Leprosy provided the basic reason why Covenant didn't believe in the Land
(which in turn is the basic drive behind most of his actions);
Nerves don't regenerate; Leprosy can't be reversed. Failure to be constantly
alert will cause further irreversable damage, so ignoring it is extremely
dangerous; You can't pretend it doesn't exist, even for a while.

Therefore a setting where nerves have regenerated must be unreal, and dangerous
to accept.

Now contrast that with AIDS; AFAIK, it's the secondary infections that
cause the problems, and they can often be treated. So presumably it can be
possible to have stable periods between secondary infections, and maybe even
improve during such periods.

Now try that in the Land; there's nothing that says visible symptoms
cannot be treated, no immediately, constantly apparent indication to
contradict the reality of the land, and no reason not to accept the
Land as a pleasant - if temporary - escape.

Think of Hile Troy... A character with AIDS would probably have even less
difficulty in accepting the land; and as much, or more reason to be grateful.



-- 
+------------------------------------------------------------------+     |
| Jerry Cullingford  #include <std.disclaimer> +44 442 230000 x3868|   ,-|--
| jc@crosfield.co.uk (jc@cel.uucp) or jc@selune.demon.co.uk        |   \_|__
+-----(Work)---------------------------------(home)----------------+ \___/
From: schulman@michael.nmr.upmc.edu (Christina Schulman)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
Subject: Re: How To Write.
Date: 25 Jan 93 21:07:14 GMT
Organization: Pittsburgh NMR Institute
X-UserAgent: Nuntius v1.1.1d16
X-XXDate: Mon, 25 Jan 93 16:04:43 GMT

In article <1993Jan17.001220.21195@news.unomaha.edu> Dwight A. Haworth,
haworth@cwis.unomaha.edu writes:
>    A final item: learn from your reviews, if you can get them.  If what
> you produce isn't good enough to print, you need to improve your
writing. 
> Sincere criticism is one source of learning.

Didn't Crawford Killian post several articles a year or two ago
on How to Write Science Fiction?  I seem to remember that they
looked pretty detailed.  They're probably available somewhere in
the sf-lovers archives, maybe at the rutgers site.

----
Christina Schulman
Pittsburgh NMR Institute
schulman@michael.nmr.upmc.edu
schulman@clarity.princeton.edu
From: mt90dac@brunel.ac.uk (Del Cotter)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
Subject: Grendels!
Date: 25 Jan 93 16:16:58 GMT
Organization: Brunel University, West London, UK

<ig25.727797258@fg70> ig25@fg70.rz.uni-karlsruhe.de (Thomas Koenig) writes:
>mt90dac@brunel.ac.uk (Del Cotter) writes:
>>Sorry, the adults of both sexes eat the young, of both sexes.  Read the book.
>
>No.  The young ones are the males, which get eaten by the adult females.
>Those that don't grow up to be females themselves.

Oops!  Read the book again, Del.

And from dpn2@po.CWRU.Edu (Damien P. Neil)

>In article <C1B54s.2IG@brunel.ac.uk> mt90dac@brunel.ac.uk (Del Cotter) writes:
>>Sorry, the adults of both sexes eat the young, of both sexes.  Read the book.
>
>Read the book yourself. Del was right -- the females eat the males.

No, Del was *WRONG*.  I know, for I was that soldier.

I'm pretty sure, though, that Jack Cohen's "African frog with nasty habits"
does it the way I described.  (God, this kid *asks* for trouble, dunn'e?)

In article <C1B54s.2IG@brunel.ac.uk> I wrote:
>Stick to happy, I always do. :-)

Just as well...
-- 
 ',' ' ',','  |                                                  |  ',' ' ',','
   ', ,','    |       Del Cotter       mt90dac@brunel.ac.uk      |    ', ,','  
     ','      |                                                  |      ','
From: klaus@diku.dk (Klaus Ole Kristiansen)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
Subject: Re: Canadian Slave Magic
Date: 22 Jan 93 12:34:04 GMT
Organization: Department of Computer Science, U of Copenhagen

aaron@atlantis.uucp writes:


>Both of them had certain features in common.  Specifically, there were two
>races, one of which was militarily inclined, and had a magic that suited that
>inclination--straightforward, mostly, and geared towards practical and often
>destructive ends.  The other race was more pacifistic, tried to live in
>harmony with nature, and had a magic that also sought this resonance with
>nature.  The military race took the other race as slaves quite commonly.

>Comments?  I guess what I'm driving at is--is this tiny subgenre of fantasy
>a distinctly Canadian phenomenon, or can non-Canadian examples be found as
>well?  And, Crawford, I'd be interested in what led you to come up with the
>configuration you did, if possible...

This sounds a lot like Tanith Lee's Stormlord, though its warrior
race did not have much magic.

Klaus O K
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
From: humphrie@SSC.WISC.EDU (William Humphries)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
Subject: Maureen F. McHugh Wins 1993 James Tiptree Jr. Award
Date: 28 Jan 93 22:34:36 GMT
Reply-To: humphrie@eunice.ssc.wisc.edu

_China Mountain Zhang_, by Maureen F. McHugh is the winner of the 1993 James 
Tiptree Jr. Award.

The award will be presented to Ms McHugh at Wiscon 17 in Madison, WI.

The award is given annualy to the best work of Science Fiction or Fantasy, as
judged by the Tiptree Jury, dealing with the nature of gender.

The award is funded through a combination of individual donations and fund
raising projects such as the Nebula nominated cookbook: _The Bakery Men Don't
See_, bake sales, and the sale of an art quilt depicting a scene from
James Tiptree Jr.'s novel, _Brightness Falls from the Air_, at the San
Francisco World Con.

James Tiptree Jr. was a psudonynm for the late Alice Sheldon, who authored
several award-winning stories before her passing in the mid 1980's. Ms Sheldon
achived a great deal of recognition for "Mr. Tiptree" from both the faanish
and the writing communities in SF without revealing her true identity. The
Tiptree Award is so named in recognition of the games the late Ms Sheldon
played with gender.
--------------
Bill Humphries <humphrie@ssc.wisc.edu> : U. Wisconsin Economics : 608-262-4543
"The best of monopoly profits is a quiet life." -- Lord Hicks
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
From: frank@fnbc.com (Frank Mitchell)
Subject: Re: Tolkien's (and Donaldson's) style (was Re: writing Styles)
Organization: First National Bank Of Chicago, Chicago IL, USA
Date: Tue, 26 Jan 93 19:07:32 GMT

In article <C1H190.Evw@usenet.ucs.indiana.edu> mphall@nickel.ucs.indiana.edu  
(Michael Hall) writes:
> In article <TORKEL.93Jan26155345@isis.sics.se> torkel@sics.se (Torkel  
Franzen) writes:
> >
> >  Yours is the more orthodox view, I believe. I seem to recall that
> >somebody - was it Damon Knight? - invented the term "said-bookism" for
> >"he gasped" etc, and regarded the frequent use of said-bookisms as a
> >sure sign of a poor writer.
> 
> 	Yeah.  A remarkably abusive editor I once had was careful to
> take one of the first assignments I handed in and write WRONG in red pen
> over every retort, quip, response, jibe, and laugh I had thrown in.
> Friendly guy.  Loved his whiskey and Camels, but a friendly guy.

The reason why it's wrong, IMNSHO, is that it's a quickie solution to a  
significant problem:

PROBLEM: a succession of he said -- she said -- he said ... tends to be  
monotonous, and occassionally painful for certain readers (like me).

QUICK FIX: replace all instance of "said" with snazzy synonyms.

NEW PROBLEM: snazzy synonyms are more distracting.


First of all, most of the "said"s are superfluous, especially in a two-person  
conversation.  The reader needs only an occasional reminder of who's talking.   
Second, there are other ways to indicate who's speaking: *sensible* actions  
accompanying speech (what said-bookisms try to suggest), other characters  
addressing the speaker (generally before he speaks, to avoid confusion).   
Third, nothing is absolutely wrong.  But said-bookisms, along with everything  
else, must be used with moderation and judgement -- and a solid idea why he's  
doing what he's doing.  In this case, less is more.

To bring this back to Donaldson (slightly): it's been a long time since I read  
him, but I remember an annoying over-elaboration in his prose.  (Not to single  
him out; early Moorcock also suffers from the "I want to sound like Beowulf,  
only grander" disease.)  And I couldn't find "roynish" in the OED.

--
Frank Mitchell,	Business Systems Analyst, First National Bank of Chicago
email:frank@fnbc.com (NeXTmail)

"I see the problem.  You have a refrigerator on your legs."
-- "Didi", _Death: THe High Cost of Living_
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
From: steevesm@woods.ulowell.edu
Subject: Re: Aes Sedai
Organization: University of Lowell
Date: Fri, 22 Jan 1993 13:20:01 GMT

In article <1993Jan22.034930.4849@sfu.ca>, knott@sfu.ca (Dave Knott) writes:
> 
> For example: The name of Artur Hawkwing. His true name is Artur Paendrag  
> something-or-other. This is suspiciously close to the legend of King  
> Arthur (of Camelot), who was known as Arthur the Pendragon. There is sort  
> of a link here between England's greatest king and the greatest king in  
> the history of the Third Age.

And the sword in the stone bit with Rand....

-darkelf
-----
"I have no brother, am like no brother;
 And this word "love", which the greybeards call divine,
 Be resident in men like one another
 And not in me.  I am myself alone."
	-Gloucester, Henry VI Pt. 3
-----
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written