HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: hes@unity.ncsu.edu (Henry E. Schaffer)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: Smith & Wesson 627
Date: 29 Dec 92 19:01:41 GMT
Organization: North Carolina State University

In article <9212210340.AA09567@unix.cie.rpi.edu> vanetten@unix.cie.rpi.edu (John S. Van Etten) writes:
#While leafing through the Owner's Manual for the little 631 J-frame that we
#have (what can I say, I was bored), I noticed that they listed a Model 627,
#which is the stainless steel twin sister of the N-framed .357 M27.  Does

  I saw it listed in a manual dated 2/92.  However it isn't in their
1992 catalog (which doesn't list the Model 28 either) and I can't find
it in the Blue Book (13th ed) under either current or past models.

#anyone out there on the net know of a source for this obviously discontinued
#Smith & Wesson?  How common where they (I've never seen one, nor even heard

  Could it be that they haven't been produced yet?

#of it until just now, which I find odd, since I'm a revolver fan)?  ...

--henry schaffer
From: fcrary@ucsu.Colorado.EDU (Frank Crary)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: Glock numbering.
Date: 1 Jan 93 14:38:49 GMT
Organization: University of Colorado, Boulder

In article <1259@blue.cis.pitt.edu> dcwst8+@pitt.edu (David C Winters) writes:
#     The first Glock to hit the market was the 17 - were numbers 1
#through 16 prototype models?

No, the Glock 17 was the 17th design Glock patented. The first 16 were
not firearms. In fact, the Glock 17 was the first gun they ever designed.

#     Also, Glock has the 17, 19, 20, 21, 22, and 23 on the market; why
#is there never any mention of the "Glock 18?"  Does such an animal even
#exist?

The Glock 18 is a limited-production full-auto machine pistol (produced,
I believe, exclusively for an Austrian Army counter-terrorist unit.)
It is identicle to the Glock 17, except for a fire-select lever on
the slide and some internal modifications to make parts _not_ compatable
with the Glock 17 (and thereby prevent conversion of Glock 17s to 
full auto.) The rate of fire is truely excessive: 1200 rpm. Glock also
produced a 33-round magazine for this pistol. But even so, I understand
a great deal of training is required to do anything except unload a
33-round magazine in 1.5 seconds.

                                                    Frank Crary
                                                    CU Boulder
From: vanetten@unix.cie.rpi.edu (John S. Van Etten)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Smith & Wesson 627
Date: 21 Dec 92 14:54:45 GMT

While leafing through the Owner's Manual for the little 631 J-frame that we
have (what can I say, I was bored), I noticed that they listed a Model 627,
which is the stainless steel twin sister of the N-framed .357 M27.  Does
anyone out there on the net know of a source for this obviously discontinued
Smith & Wesson?  How common where they (I've never seen one, nor even heard
of it until just now, which I find odd, since I'm a revolver fan)?  Any info
is, as always, appreciated.


Thanks,

John

--
******************************************************************************
               John S. Van Etten     vanetten@unix.cie.rpi.edu
       Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute  1000 MIPS GaAs F-RISC Project
       --"If sand didn't irritate oysters, there would be no pearls"--
From: les@ulysses.att.com (Leslie Johnson)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: New Jersy Gun Laws
Date: 22 Dec 92 00:00:04 GMT
Organization: AT&T Bell Labs, Murray Hill, NJ, USA

In article <9212190220.AA10665@babs.SFSU.EDU> grey@futon.SFSU.EDU (Herbert Leong) writes:
#
#Does anyone knw waht the gun laws in NJ are like? I am visiting  
#relatives in Verona and would like to bring over some firearms.
#
#Some of the ones I am considering (will most likely bring only one or  
#two): 
#
#Colt Sporter, 16 and 20 inch barrels (.223 rem)
Not legal in NJ

#PWA commando (colt ar-15 look-a-like with 16in barrel) (.223 rem)
Not legal in NJ

#Ruger mini-30 (762x39mm), mini-14 ranch (.223 rem), 10/22  (.22 LR)  
Mini-14 not legal, Mini-30 okay, 10/22 okay

#(10/22 most likely will be the only one I bring--most harmless  
#looking one I have :)
Magazines >15 rounds not legal, so leave Ram-lines, etc. at home

#Springfield Armory M1A (.308 win)
Not legal

#Browning Citori (12 ga)
#Mossberg 500 trophy slugster (12 ga)
#Marin camp-9 (9mm) and model 94 (.44 mag/special)
#IMI TimberWolf (.357mag/.38special)

All legal, as long as the magazines hold 15 rounds or less.
Semi-auto shotguns cannot have folding stocks or pistol grips, and
are limited to 6 rounds max.

--
  - Les Johnson  (les@ulysses.att.com) 1+908-582-5493
       "One Bell System - It Works"
From: osan@cbnewsb.cb.att.com (Mr. X)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Stupid question time, again...
Date: 22 Dec 92 23:47:29 GMT
Organization: Twilight Zone

Hi Folks!

I have a question that has been nagging at me for quite some time.  Why is it
that large artillery guns can toss projectiles out the muzzle at velocities
so much higher than a shoulder arm?  Is there any absolute reason why you could
not build a .30 rifle that spits a projectile down range at 10K fps, muzz. ?

Can anyone give me the Readers Digest (TM) version and/or direct me to some
sources?  I was wondering what such high MVs would do for shooters in 1000
yard matches.  It seems like this would reduce typical group sizes 
dramaticallyi since trajectories would be super flat, flight time ultra short
(like around .4 seconds??) and external effects like cross winds correspondinly
reduced.

Thanks much, and happy holidays to you all.  Good health and good luck for
the New Year!

	-Andy V.
From: towle@vssteg.enet.dec.com (Clark Towle Gunsmith)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: Norinco M14/Mini14/SKS
Date: 29 Dec 92 19:02:19 GMT
Organization: Digital Equipment Corporation


In article <1992Dec28.161310.9899@walter.bellcore.com>, bellcore!torque.bae.bellcore.com!sjs@uunet.UU.NET (Stephen Szymanski) writes...
#In article <1992Dec24.152455.21328@MorningStar.Com>, chris@MorningStar.Com (Chris Miller) writes:

#This is rather interesting in that I own a Mini-14 and can attest
#that it is not exactly accurate, although at 50 feet it seems to
#be quite able to group all the shots in a fairly tight pattern. :^>
#A side question here, just how accurate is the M16 firing .223 at
#similar ranges?

 The least accurate M16/AR15 is still more accurate than the most accurate 
Mini14.. :-)

 The M16/AR15 is generally a one holer at 50 feet.. Even my GI issue skinny 
barrel M16 was easily capable of shooting rings around the best Ruger 
accuracy-wise. At 25 yards using the sighting in target with a 1" aiming 
paster all shots can be kept well within the paster. Try that with a Mini14..
:-)
From: Sproul@sproul.sproul.com (Mark Sproul)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: 223 military brass - how long will it last?
Date: 23 Dec 92 22:59:57 GMT
Organization: Sproul Consulting



In article <BzMEI3.8pC@SSD.intel.com> (rec.guns), cower@SSD.intel.com (Rich Cower) writes:
# 
# Does anyone have any idea of how many times this "once-fired military" 223 
# brass can be reloaded and cycled thru a semi-automatic rifle? 
# 
# Maybe I'll take some cases, powder, trimmer and press to the range some
# day and find this out...
# 
# thanks...rich cower
# 

I have gotten VERY long life out of .223 brass. provided that you
dont stretch it tooo much by pushing the shoulder way back every time.

I have gotten as much as 10 to 15 reloads out of .223 military brass.

-----------------------------------------------------
Mark Sproul - KB2ICI - New Jersey
sproul@sproul.com
From: wkb@cblph.att.com (William K Brummett)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: What does SKS mean?
Date: 1 Jan 93 14:38:48 GMT
Organization: AT&T


    In article <9212311811.AA21826@glv.com>, rcc@glv.uucp (Chris Carpenter)
    writes:
    > Does anyone know the meaning of the SKS designation of the SKS
    > model 56?


        SKS = Samozaridnya Karabina Simonova

    Simonov self-loading (semiautomatic) carbine, adopted by Soviet
    forces in 1945.  Type 56 means, I believe, a copy made in the PRC.

    -- Keith

-- 
    | (614) 860-3187         Copyright (C) 1992, by       AT&T, Room 3B202 |
    | att!cblph!wkb  or,     W.K. Brummett and AT&T      6200 E. Broad St. |
    | wkb@cblph.att.com       All rights reserved.      Columbus, OH 43213 |
    `----------------------------------------------------------------------'
From: purtilo@cs.umd.edu
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: Need a book review -
Date: 30 Dec 92 20:51:48 GMT

a copy for me....  but ....

#  From:           hes@ncsu.edu (Henry E. Schaffer)
#  Subject:        Need a book review -
#  Organization:   North Carolina State University
#  
#  Geoff Miller asked me if anyone had read and reviewed  "The Modern
#  Technique of the Pistol", by Greg Morrison (sp?), an instructor at 
#  Jeff Cooper's API.  I never have seen that book, but it sounds
#  interesting.  Has anyone seen/read it?  If so, it would be nice
#  if someone would post a book review.  (Contrary to the rumors which
#  John B. has spread I do *not* buy every firearms book published -
#  John must have been talking to my wife. :-)
#  
#  --henry schaffer

Henry, 

In a course I took a few months ago on tactical pistol, from a buddy
of Cooper, that book was described to me as essential reading for anyone 
who wanted to keep in practice with techniques taught in the course.
I skimmed through the book once, and it was directly the sort of material
I had in the course.  (Supposedly, though I do not know if he is referenced 
as such in the book, the guy I took the course from is responsible for the 
author (in latest printing) updating the recommended advanced tactical 
reload methods.  Sometimes it is difficult to assess how serious such 
claims are, but I got this from another chap ... John Pepper, of pepper-
popper fame, and a buddy in the same club here ... who *is* explicitly 
referenced in cooper's books as having contributed to the scout rifle 
and other "things" out at API.)

You may also want to pick up a copy of "Principles of self defense"
by Cooper.  It is pretty small/short, though pricey for the size.  But
it is also described as being one of the best summaries of what you
should do for mental conditioning towards surviving an attack.  I 
have read it and found it compelling, though I have only a limited amount
of experiences upon which to judge it (few fights, only one which came
close to my having to return fire.)  Again, I think it is a bit expensive 
for the size, it is more accurately described as a "phamplet" instead of 
book.

Jim
From: hollombe@polymath.tti.com (The Polymath)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: Appreciate some info
Date: 29 Dec 92 01:49:31 GMT
Organization: The Cat Factory

In article <1h8m5hINNq9b@gap.caltech.edu> valluri@cco.caltech.edu (Siddhartha Valluri) writes:

}... what is a good price for

}  SIG P226 + SIGlites + K-KOTE

}  ALL NIB

Mine, with SIGlites & K-kote, cost ~$850 out the door.  That included
sales tax (~8%) and transfer fees ($14) about a year ago.  Probably not
the cheapest, but reasonably in the ballpark.

}And finally is there any need/necessity to get the k-kote option?

There have been rumors of rust problems with non-K-koted SIGs.  My skin
chemistry is particularly corrosive, so it seemed like cheap insurance.

The Polymath (aka: Jerry Hollombe, M.A., CDP, aka: hollombe@polymath.tti.com)
Head Robot Wrangler at Citicorp                "If you can't stand solitude,
3100 Ocean Park Blvd.   (310) 450-9111, x2483  perhaps others find you boring
Santa Monica, CA  90405                        as well."  -- Mark Twain
From: Harry.Johnson@lambada.oit.unc.edu (Harry Johnson)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Recommendations for purchase, high capacity autoloader
Date: 29 Dec 92 01:49:54 GMT
Organization: University of North Carolina Extended Bulletin Board Service


Thanks to everyone who wrote to me with advice (and questions about my
motives) for purchasing a high capacity autolaoder.  A number of people
said that no good advice could be meaningfully given without knowing what
the intended use will be, which makes perfect sense (I should have thought
about that before asking for advice).

I plan to buy a gun to use for defense purposes, but since I expect there
to be problems with obtaining high capacity models in the near future I
plan to buy one of those while I still have the option.  I planned to get
a .22, figuring that it would be cheap to learn on, given ammo prices. 
Several people recommended something more along the lines of a .45 or 9
mm, though, and I think that their advice is valid given the intended use. 

So, then, given these constraints:  intended use of defense, high capacity
(>15 rounds), price <$650 or $700, which gun should I shop for and why? 
Any advice is appreciated, especially with regard to caliber and specific
model selection.

Harry
--
   The opinions expressed are not necessarily those of the University of
     North Carolina at Chapel Hill, the Campus Office for Information
        Technology, or the Experimental Bulletin Board Service.
           internet:  laUNChpad.unc.edu or 152.2.22.80
From: hes@ncsu.edu (Henry E. Schaffer)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Need a book review -
Date: 30 Dec 92 20:52:04 GMT
Organization: North Carolina State University


  Geoff Miller asked me if anyone had read and reviewed  "The Modern
Technique of the Pistol", by Greg Morrison (sp?), an instructor at 
Jeff Cooper's API.  I never have seen that book, but it sounds
interesting.  Has anyone seen/read it?  If so, it would be nice
if someone would post a book review.  (Contrary to the rumors which
John B. has spread I do *not* buy every firearms book published -
John must have been talking to my wife. :-)

--henry schaffer
From: emory!ke4zv!gary@gatech.edu (Gary Coffman)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: Identify this Cannon?
Date: 26 Dec 92 00:17:33 GMT
Organization: Destructive Testing Systems

In article <2sfrh4n@lynx.unm.edu> boardman%cancer.unm.edu@lynx.unm.edu (Bob Boardman) writes:
#
#	Given the mounting with it's seven discrete elevations and the strange
#  chamber/removable barrel/sleeve arrangement, I'm guessing that this might be
#  a naval "line-firing" gun - one of the guns that would be carried out onto
#  the deck, when necessary, for firing a line over to another ship.
#	Any help in identifying this little bronze beauty would be gratefully
#  appreciated.  If anyone has any pointers towards good books about historical
#  naval weaponry, that would also be appreciated.  If I can't figure out what
#  this is and how to fire* it, I may have to put it on the Suburban as a hood
#  ornament ;-}.

My *guess* is that this is a neo-Victorian salute cannon that was designed
to grace some wealthy person's garden in the 1890s. From the description
of it's barrel design, I'd say it was intended to fire nothing more potent
than newspaper wads with a noisemaker BP charge. I wouldn't come near this
thing with propellants until it was examined throughly by an expert.

Gary
-- 
Gary Coffman KE4ZV          |    You make it,     | gatech!wa4mei!ke4zv!gary
Destructive Testing Systems |    we break it.     | uunet!rsiatl!ke4zv!gary
534 Shannon Way             |    Guaranteed!      | emory!kd4nc!ke4zv!gary      
Lawrenceville, GA 30244     |                     | emory!ke4zv!gary@gatech.edu
From: rrubert@cisncc.intel.com (Rubert, Rodney ~)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: Shotshell reloader advice?
Date: 31 Dec 92 01:25:56 GMT
Organization: Intel Corporation




	Can someone out there email me sources of components for 
	shotshell reloading? A versitle supply of wads is my biggest
	problem. I can't find 28ga or 410 wads in the stores and it
	would be nice if there were a catalog outfit with some level
	of selection. Bulk powder and primers would be nice as well.


			Thanks,

			  Rod Rubert
From: cmort@ncoast.org (Christopher Morton)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: 9mmx19 powder choice?
Date: 3 Jan 93 22:59:42 GMT
Organization: North Coast Public Access *NIX, Cleveland, OH

As quoted from <00966026.7F85D760.21893@dymaxion.ns.ca> by rr@dymaxion.ns.ca (Rod Regier):

# I used 158g SWC lead bullets for my "extremely heavy" projectile
# experiment in 9mm.  The pressure signs with HS-6 were acceptable,
# but the mechanical problems with making it work are a BEAR.
# I was using a NATO-spec throated barrel, or else it would have
# been a totally lost cause.  Even then, the bullets have to be
# seated so deep that the case sides bulge.  Many of those
# cases had a large enough bulge that it was impossible
# to get them to chamber.

Try a variety of case brands.  I've found this to be a function of manufacturer.
Norinco cases are VERY susceptible to this.  Other brands less so.  In a Glock,
the tighter chamber makes it very critical.

# If you are looking for accurate, funtionally reliable
# loads in 9mm, stick with 115 to 124 grain projectiles.
# 
140gr. bullets work very well.  I prefer the 147gr. truncated cone from Penn.
Their 145gr. semi wadcutter is also very good, but does create length and
feeding problems.  You have to be VERY careful of seating depth.  Seat the 147s
NO deeper than 1.07"OAL.  You may have to allow for the greater length of the 
145.  If you're just shooting bullseye, cut back the powder charge.  I got 
4.0gr. of bullseye from Ed Harris.  It works VERY well with the 140s, 147s and
145s, IF you religiously adhere to the length figure.  Start long, then seat in
until you get reliable feeding or you hit the 1.07" mark.  If that doesn't 
work, don't use them.  Used with LESS than 4.0gr. of Bullseye, the 145s are 
very accurate and pleasant to shoot.  I think I used 2.8gr.  Stefan Podleski
has the actual load.

Be careful with these loads.  You can get very good results if you're careful.
If you're NOT, you can hurt yourself.  As always, it's YOUR responsibility.

# I strongly suspect your 4.6g of (?Bullseye) with a 158g
# lead projectile for 9mmx19 would have been OVER maximum.

That's WAY out of bounds.  I think that 4.2 was as high as Ed would go with the
147s.  I'd stick to 4.0.  It works, it's accurate, and it's safe.

# Most of the 147g and above data for 9mmx19 uses slower
# burning powders.

Bullseye works.  You just have to be careful.


-- 
------------------------------------------------------------------  

"Well whose opinions did you THINK these were...?" 
------------------------------------------------------------------  
"It's 11:59pm, do you know where your congressman's checkbook is?"
------------------------------------------------------------------ 
Christopher Morton
{uunet|backbone}!ncoast.org!cmort                      cmort@ncoast.org
From: emory!ke4zv!gary@gatech.edu (Gary Coffman)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: light .44 Magnum loads?
Date: 26 Dec 92 00:17:37 GMT
Organization: Destructive Testing Systems

In article <m0n4u4z-000183C@ncoast.org> cmort@ncoast.org (Christopher Morton) writes:
#As quoted from <EDP.92Dec23130521@roo.sneaks.kodak.com> by edp@sneaks.kodak.com (Ed Pendzik -- Sun Consulting):
#
## I have not heard an explanation of the physics/chemistry involved.
#
#There's a good explanation in Ackley.  Apparently the powder gets blown up 
#against the bullet and compacted, detonating rather than burning.

That's Ackley's *theory*, he was never able to prove it. A simple test
might be in order. Putting cotton wadding above the powder gives reliable
ignition and no "detonations". To test Ackley's theory, put the wadding
*below* the powder and see if the gun blows up. I say it won't, you'll
just get a squib and a bullet stuck in the bore. The next normal shot
then blows up the gun.

Gary

-- 
Gary Coffman KE4ZV          |    You make it,     | gatech!wa4mei!ke4zv!gary
Destructive Testing Systems |    we break it.     | uunet!rsiatl!ke4zv!gary
534 Shannon Way             |    Guaranteed!      | emory!kd4nc!ke4zv!gary      
Lawrenceville, GA 30244     |                     | emory!ke4zv!gary@gatech.edu
From: barry@godzilla.quotron.com (Barry Geipel)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: Air Guns
Date: 30 Dec 92 20:51:50 GMT
Organization: Quotron Systems, Inc.

In article <BzxJD6.Eq1@news.cso.uiuc.edu> irvine@uxh.cso.uiuc.edu (Brent Irvine) writes:
#
#	I am looking to buy an airgun to improve my
#	marksmanship, I don't want to have to drive
#	tons of miles to a range - I'd rather plink
#	awy in the backyard.
#

I bought an RWS Model 45 to help me with marksmanship. This is a
German made middle of the road air gun. I added a Beeman aperature
rear sight to better simulate my M1 Garand.

The rifle ran me $170.00 at a local sporting good store. The rear sight
was $40.00 and can be found at a good air rifle store or through the
Creedmoor catalog.

Many people told me not to settle for anything less than a Beeman. My
pocket book told me otherwise, and five shoot groups were every shot
touches eachother has left no regret in my disision



-- 
==========================================================
Barry L. Geipel            || 
INTERNET:barry@quotron.com || Lacking a muse, my mauser
COMPUSERVE:710055,3726     ||  must be my  thunderbolt
From: WES@SSCVX1.ssc.gov (Wes Smith)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Browning BLR Lever 30-06
Date: 22 Dec 92 00:00:57 GMT
Organization: SSC Laboratory


Sometime in recent weeks, a gentleman replied to a string on lever action
rifles and stated that he had won the subject rifle in a raffle for his gun
club.  He also indicated that he was looking to sell this rifle.  I didn't
keep his address, and now that it's too late to simply go back and re-read
the post, I would like to inquire as to it's availibility.  Are you out
there, and is this rifle still for sale?

Also, I would appreciate any feedback that BLR owners might want to share. 
This looks like a really nice gun, and seems that it would be as easily
used by a left-handed shooter (like myself) as with a right hander.

Thanks for all replies - Wes Smith
From: elekokws@nusunix1.nus.sg (Kok Wai Sung)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: airgun lubricant
Date: 22 Dec 92 15:05:43 GMT
Organization: National University of Singapore


A RWS catalog should be helpful in locating a suitable lubricant
for airgun. Although I don't remember the seal needing any.
In fact, if I remember it right, one is not suppose to oil the 
seal.
An airgun needs very little lubricant in normal usage, just one 
or two drops of oil on the main spring should be sufficient.

By the way, don't use any penetrating oil ( like CLP ) on a 
airgun, if they get to the seal, you will have to replace the
seal.

hope this helps.
Merry Christmas everyone!!
-wa
From: post@hpfcso.fc.hp.com (David Post)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: Saved by the gun
Date: 2 Jan 93 14:17:50 GMT

Jim De Arras writes about "hardcopy":

 ># They robbed the cash register.  In the instant the punks turned their
 ># backs on the owner, he pulled what looked like a 9 mm automatic and 
 >  ^^^^^
 ># killed all 4.  He appeared to know what he was doing, discharging 6

 >I have a problem with this, at least as presented here.  If they were leaving 
 >I do not personally feel deadly force was needed at the point they turned thier  
 >backs.  Unless the fact that they were mexican made them fair game.

We can't tell from the recounting of the story above.  But imagining what it
was like there, I would guess the punks probably turned when they heard the
victim scramble for the gun.  Their own guns would still be in their hands,
presenting a situation where it would be reasonable to fire on them.  The
nature of a situation where the felon is holding a gun should naturally
cause one to fear for your life.

But I have no idea what relevance their race has in the original report.

 ># He fell asleep after raping the woman.  She got loose from her chains,
 ># got his gun and killed him.  Police say there will be no charges filed.

Usually, if police do not file charges, everything was clear to them (
assuming professionals, of course ).  When something is unclear, they tend
to refer the case to the District Attorney.  At least that is how things are
supposed to work.

David Post  davep@hpfcpp.fc.hp.com  hplabs!hpfcla!post