HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: mike@gordian.com (Michael A. Thomas)
Subject: Re: wearing symbols
Organization: Gordian; Costa Mesa, CA
Date: Fri, 21 Aug 1992 17:26:34 GMT

In article <1992Aug21.061406.11439@amhux2.amherst.edu>, twpierce@amhux1.amherst.edu (Tim Pierce) writes:
> In article <1992Aug19.022122.29908@gordian.com> mike@gordian.com (Michael A. Thomas) writes:
> 
> >If Borgesa King
> >co-opted the Star of David it's meaning would be irretreivably lost?
> >What utter drek. You honestly think that the Jews wouldn't point
> >this out, and make certain that everybody knew *exactly* what was 
> >being co-opted? I guess they'd just roll over and play dead, by golly.
> 
> Hang on.  A little while ago you were saying that the mass marketing
> of a pink triangle is simply cultural cross-pollination, which
> suggested to me that you recommend that we simply "roll over and play
> dead" in response.

  Well, both :-) It is undeniable that some percentage of symbols which
get mass marketed will be diluted and their meaning lost. I guess what
my point is that the _process_ of loosing its meaning is where the benifit
can exist. This is a fleeting thing and may or may not have any long
term impact. However, the cross-pollenation occurs only in context of
people understanding (at least initially) where that culture came
from.
  I really don't see this as being much different than the dilution
of ethnic foods into the mass market. Sure, the mass market dilutes
thier cultural significance (like Taco Bell), but if the association
still remains it is a net benefit, IMHO. Maybe what we really need to
do is start a  _Lesbian Potluck Take Out_ chain :-)
 
> >  Like I've said three times before, if the meaning of the symbols
> >are lost because we didn't speak up, whose fault is that?
> 
> It wasn't clear that you were saying this; it sounded more like "it's
> no big deal if the meanings are lost."

  So long as it is understood where they came from as they are being
diluted it's not a big deal to eventually loose the meaning. Just 
create another symbol/fad and start the process over again. Eventually
we will have one that is co-opted which _retains_ some context of its
original meaning.
-- 

		Michael Thomas	(mike@gordian.com)
	"I don't think Bambi Eyes will get you that flame thrower..."  
		-- Hobbes to Calvin
		USnail: 20361 Irvine Ave Santa Ana Heights, Ca,	92707-5637
		PaBell: (714) 850-0205 (714) 850-0533 (fax)
From: adolphso@mizar.usc.edu (adolphson)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: Introduction
Date: 19 Aug 1992 12:49:23 -0700
Organization: University of Southern California, Los Angeles, CA
NNTP-Posting-Host: mizar.usc.edu

I swear this will be my last posting in this tedious thread.

In article <1992Aug19.185212.15508@queernet.org> 
rogerk@queernet.org (Roger B.A. Klorese) writes:
> In article <l952icINN4p2@mizar.usc.edu> 
> adolphso@mizar.usc.edu (adolphson) writes:
...
> That's one way of looking at it.  Many electronic communities (soc.bi,
> the Alternates list, many bulletin board systems) disagree.  So do many
> flesh-n-blood discussion groups.

The soc.bi regulars periodically post introductory autobiographical
essays for the benefit of people who've just started reading the 
newsgroup?  That, I remind you, is what I thought was ludicrous about 
the suggestion that began all this.  If people new to soc.motss would 
like to introduce themselves, or demuffinize themselves, that's great.  
But what are the people who've been here for some time supposed to do?
Post their bios monthly?  Quarterly?

> Of course, if you come on like Miss Social Register of 1992 when you state
> your opinion, that does tend to turn it from a simple statement of opinion
> into a pronouncement...

Hmmmm.  

Yes, a kill file is looking more attractive all the time.

Arne

Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: norris@infonode.ingr.com (Jeff Norris)
Subject: Re: AIDS speech Wed @9PM EST Republican Convention
Organization: Intergraph Corporation, Huntsville, AL.
Date: Thu, 20 Aug 1992 21:58:02 GMT

mara@panix.com (Mara Chibnik) writes:
>carlton@husc10.harvard.edu (david carlton) writes:
> >Speaking of convention stuff, was everybody as thrilled as I was to
> >see Clinton gleefully point out that he had never said that he
> >supported the right of same-sex couples to marry or adopt?
>I missed this, but it doesn't surprise me.  Still, I prefer the
>influences surrounding Clinton to those surrounding Bush, by a lot.

Let's face it, now that it's a two party race, Clinton has the GLB vote
by default; so now he has to pander to those moderate Republicans who don't
like Bush.  That's the politician in him.  I'm not crazy about half-solutions,
but at least a Clinton presidency would be a step in the right direction.

--
Jeff Norris                     Avoiding danger is no safer in the
norris@infonode.ingr.com        long run than outright exposure.
  __                            The fearful are caught as often
  \/                            as the bold.       --Helen Keller
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: georgere@microsoft.com (George V. Reilly)
Subject: Re: Sarcasm
Date: 20 Aug 92 01:09:40 GMT
Organization: Microsoft Corporation

harris@bodie.cs.unc.edu (Trey Harris) writes:
) This is always the way, isn't it?  Every lesbigay I know is at one
) extreme or the other on sarcasm.  I, like many of my friends, view
) sarcasm as a high art form.  Yet, some (less I believe than the other
) group) never get sarcasm, period.
)
) Has anyone else out there noticed this?  

I've noticed that many Americans in general are often
completely sarcasm-impaired.  It frustrates the hell out of me.
Sarcasm is widely understood in Ireland, and I hate having to
back up and explain that I'm being sarcastic.

My brother David claims that the popularity of ending a
sarcastic comment with "NOT!!!" is because if that unsubtle
clue isn't there, most Americans just won't get the sarcasm.
________________
George V. Reilly   <GeorgeRe@Microsoft.Com>
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: sik@cci632.cci.com (Shawn Kammerdiener)
Subject: Re: Those Who Are Gone Now
Organization: CCI
Date: Tue, 18 Aug 1992 13:05:01 GMT

In article <1992Aug18.025657.588@macc.wisc.edu> anderson@macc.wisc.edu (Jess Anderson) writes:
>
>Responding to David Christopher Rogers's excellent
>suggestion to add to the FAQ a list of motssers who are
>now gone, he begins:
>
>rob@mtdiablo.concord.ca.us <Rob Bernardo>
>seth@pbhya.pacbell.com <Seth Miller>
>[???] <Doug Mosher>
>ozdaltx!root@uunet.uu.net <Robert Scott>

           Dirge Without Music
           -------------------

I am not resigned to shutting away of loving hearts
    in the hard ground.
So it is, and so it will be, for so it has been, time out
    of mind:
Into the darkness they go, the wise and the lovely.
    Crowned with lillies and with laurel they go; but
    I am not resigned.

Lovers and thinkers, into the earth with you.
Be one with the dull, the indiscriminate dust.
A fragment of what you felt, of what you knew,
A formula, a phrase remains, -- but the best is lost.

The answers quick and keen, the honest look, the
    laughter, the love, --
They are gone.  They are gone to feed the roses.
    Elegant and curled
Is the blossom.  Fragrant is the blossom.  I know.  But I
    do not approve.
More precious was the light in your eyes than all the
    roses in the world.

Down, down, down into the darkness of the grave
Gently they go, the beautiful, the tender, the kind;
Quietly they go, the intelligent, the witty, the brave.
I know.  But I do not approve.  And I am not resigned.

	Edna St. Vincent Millay
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: ECL4JN2@MVS.OAC.UCLA.EDU (Jack B. Nimble)
Subject: Re: Citizen Cohn
Date: 20 Aug 92 11:12:59 PDT

In article <1992Aug20.074312.5153@reed.edu>, on 20 Aug 92 07:43:12 GMT,
nelson@reed.edu (Nelson Minar) writes:

>
>In article <19920820002011ECL4JN2@MVS.OAC.UCLA.EDU> ECL4JN2@MVS.OAC.UCLA.EDU (Jack B. Nimble) writes:
>>Premiering this Saturday on HBO as a made-for-cable movie is _Citizen
>>Cohn_, a biographical movie starring James Woods as Roy Cohn
>
>hmm, sounds like it might be interesting, even if it is made for
>cable.  Has anyone read the book Citizen Cohn? Is it good?
>
I did read the book (in paperback) about three years ago, and it was a
pretty good poolside type of read.

I also like Von Hoffman's style -- witty and a tad sarcastic. I'm dating
myself, but does anybody else remember when he had a spot at the end of
_60 Minutes_ each week with something called _Point/Counterpoint_? It
was sort of a conservative/liberal mini-debate over a topical issue --
the predecessor to the Andy Rooney shtick.

>--
>                __
>nelson@reed.edu \/                         I can live forever in formaldehyde
>
-jbn
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: ry@cbnewsl.cb.att.com (ryerson.schwark)
Subject: Re: Presumption (now outing)
Organization: UNIX System Laboratories, Summit, NJ
Date: Wed, 12 Aug 1992 12:39:21 GMT

In article <1992Aug12.084808.18938@nwnexus.WA.COM> elf@halcyon.com (Elf Sternberg) writes:

>I think outing is a Bad Thing.  Period.

I agree.  I *NEVER* *EVER* talk about the color of someone's eyes with
someone they don't know unless I have received permission first.  You
can't be too careful.  I have friends who wear colored contacts, and
I respect their right to eye color privacy.  I can't believe that some
people would actually talk about some one's eye color without explicit
permission first.  That's so MEAN.

Ry Schwark
ry@usl.com
From: adolphso@mizar.usc.edu (adolphson)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: Snaps (no, not *that* kind, Elizabeth) (was Re: New queer terminology) (was Re: The media, again)
Date: 20 Aug 1992 11:09:52 -0700
Organization: University of Southern California, Los Angeles, CA
NNTP-Posting-Host: mizar.usc.edu
Keywords: mea culpa, mea maxima culpa

In article <l8vsg4INNt8n@mizar.usc.edu> 
adolphso@mizar.usc.edu (adolphson) writes:

> From the movie version of _Bell
> Book and Candle_ (1958), starring Kim Novak as a beatnik/witch 
> whose familiar is a cat named Pyewacket.  Novak falls in love 
> with a mortal, played by Jack Lemmon.

I hang my head in shame.  

As a very sweet muffin just pointed out to me in email, Jack Lemmon 
plays Kim Novak's *brother*.  The mortal was played by Jimmy Stewart.

*What* was I thinking?  This will teach me to write before double-
checking.

Please forgive me. 

And I didn't even mention Hermione Gingold.  (I didn't mention
Ernie Kovacs because I don't *like* Ernie Kovacs.)

Arne
From: Furr@cup.portal.com (George Dalton Madison)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: net queen??
Date: Thu, 20 Aug 92 07:43:03 PDT
Organization: The Portal System (TM)
  <1992Aug19.232300.855@beaver.cs.washington.edu>
  <2A92F762.1601@ics.uci.edu> <1992Aug20.022648.21099@tc.cornell.edu>

Cindy Tittle Moore writes:
> Either way, though we don't get nearly enough of either the Motss
> Great Dyke OR the Motss Vice Dyke!! (I am, like Mara, turning my head
> carefully away from the double entendres.)  More, more!!

Hmmm... Given Father Amelia's benediction of "Go and sin lots
more," I would say that she's eminently qualified to be the 
Motss *VICE* Dyke.  ;-)
 
() Sex between a man and a woman can be wonderful; provided
() you get between the right man and the right woman.
()      -- Woody Allen
-----
[> George D. Madison | NBCS: B8f+t+w-e+s+k+a!cv | Just say NO to razors! <]
[> It's a BEAR thing -- you wouldn't understand. <|> furr@cup.portal.com <]
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: adolphso@mizar.usc.edu (adolphson)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: Speaking for others
Date: 21 Aug 1992 09:45:50 -0700
Organization: University of Southern California, Los Angeles, CA
NNTP-Posting-Host: mizar.usc.edu

In article <1992Aug21.144346.24036@watson.ibm.com> 
jakec@ralvmm.vnet.ibm.com (Jake Coughlin) writes:
> adolphso@mizar.usc.edu (adolphson):
> > (and why is it that we get under your -- plural, and you know 
> > who you are -- skin like this?)
>
> what's this ``we'' stuff?

You don't read what you write?  

In article <1992Aug20.181848.29442@watson.ibm.com>, you wrote:

> ...  like an whiny Arne ``i'm
> being funny -- why can't you understand my ghettoized West Hollywood
> larger-than-life-but-completely-meaningless'' posting.

One gayboy does not a ghetto make.  If you don't like me, you
sure as hell won't like my friends and acquaintances from the
ghetto.  

Arne

Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: tdbear@tandon.com (Tom Barrett)
Subject: Re: Just please shoot me : )
Organization: Tandon Corporation, Moorpark, CA
Distribution: usa
Date: Mon, 17 Aug 1992 17:29:45 GMT

In article <h!6mhqf.foucault@netcom.com> foucault@netcom.com (Howard Arthur Faye) writes:

>Except for the mosquitos and black flies which swarm in the summer,
>it seems like a nice place.

Eeek!  I forgot about the bugs!  At least they mostly all die
out during the winter.  Burlington does sound like a good
place... only a few miles from Ben & Jerry's (wonder if they
take borders?)...

-- 
Tom Barrett (TDBear)    tdbear@tandon.com                 voice 805-378-6207
Tandon Corporation      tdbear@p6.f1006.n102.z1.fidonet.org fax 805-529-8895
Sr. HW Design Engineer  "War is Peace, No is Yes, And We're All Free!" 
[The views expressed herein may not be shared by the organization of origin]
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: ae642@yfn.ysu.edu (Kelley Miller)
Subject: Re: mandatory service (was Re: Metzenbaum introduces Senate bill to end military ban)
Reply-To: ae642@yfn.ysu.edu (Kelley Miller)
Organization: St. Elizabeth Hospital, Youngstown, OH
Date: Wed, 12 Aug 1992 19:01:25 GMT


In a previous article, shore@theory.TC.Cornell.EDU (Melinda Shore) says:

>In article <15731@star.cs.vu.nl> fjvwing@cs.vu.nl (FJ!!) writes:
>>What _I_ would like to see is the women taking to streets, fighting against
>>this last peice of sexual inequality. Of course, they don't get drafted. Of course, they don't mind _this_ piece of sexual inequality, and who can 
>>blame them?
>
>Oh, please.  If you don't know what you're talking about, don't
>talk.
>
>Women are *very* active in the anti-draft movement, not only on
>the picket lines but also in counseling centers.  And yes, there
>are those women who do feel that women should be drafted.
>
>My own feeling is that the way to resolve the inequity is to
>end the draft.
>
Hear, Hear!!!


>-- 
>       Melinda Shore - Cornell Theory Center - shore@tc.cornell.edu
>
-- 
*...your Friendly Neighborhood Atheist // "Peter...PETER!!  I can see    *
*      the KelleyMan:Kelley L. Miller // your house from here!"          *    
*                  ae642@yfn.ysu.edu // Jesus Christ, from the cross     *
****************Know God...No peace.  No God...Know peace.****************
Newsgroups: soc.motss,alt.politics.homosexuality,soc.culture.latin-america
From: lazarus@wixer.cactus.org (Michael Lax)
Subject: NEED SPANISH TRANSLATOR FOR NICARAGUAN SODOMY LAW
Organization: Real/Time Communications
Date: Wed, 12 Aug 92 23:06:16 GMT


I got a copy of Article 205 and 150 today from the Nicaraguan Embassy, along
with a legal interpretation of 2 If anyone wants to translate this
this and post it, please let me know and I will email/fax it to you.  Thanks.

"For I can see that in the midst of death, Life persists; in the
midst of untruth, Truth persists; in the midst of darkness, Light
persists."

"An eye for an eye will blind the world."
                                      Mohandas Karamchand Gandhi

"I'm here, I'm queer, get used to it."
                                                             ME!

lazarus@wixer.cactus.org
Michael Lax, 12514 Esplanade St., #B, Austin, TX  78727-4409
512.837.1596 (h), 512.836.9715 (fax)
From: adolphso@mizar.usc.edu (adolphson)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: Snaps (no, not *that* kind, Elizabeth) (was Re: New queer terminology) (was Re: The media, again)
Date: 17 Aug 1992 14:31:43 -0700
Organization: University of Southern California, Los Angeles, CA
NNTP-Posting-Host: mizar.usc.edu

In article <1992Aug17.192110.24090@macc.wisc.edu> 
anderson@macc.wisc.edu (Jess Anderson) writes:

> In article <l8vsg4INNt8n@mizar.usc.edu>
> adolphso@mizar.usc.edu (adolphson) writes:

> >As I intimated before, Queers have appropriated some of the
> >outward show of camp, but without any understanding or 
> >humor. 

> Now Arne, *you* know that camp is overstating certain
> things, 

*Overstating*!  What *are* you talking about?

>         like the number of jealous friends who glared at you

Precisely 17.

> as you whisked the grandest item in weeks right out of the

Weeks?  It's been a dry *year*.

> bar under their noses, 

And right out of their talons.

>                        then calling every one of them in the
> morning and rather overdramatizing how long it was you did
> whatever with this divinity and ohmygod, it was *huge*, and
> and and.

*Overdramatizing*?  But since you're asking, doll, we *did* go 
at each other for *hours* and *hours* and mother's feeling quite 
reborn today.

> But in this posting, quite a lot of which I thought on the
> mark, this last you overstate.  I think most young people
> today *do* have some understanding of all sorts of relevant
> issues and modalities; it seems to me it mostly needs to be
> broadened quite a bit.  

Oh, it's not their grasp of the issues and modalities that I
question (or question all that much).  It's their grasp of what
I would argue, pace Nelson, is our shared history and culture.  
I don't know how to explain this.  It's almost as if they respond 
to the obvious jokes as if this were a farce, when what they're
looking at is actually a comedy of manners in which *everything*
is loaded and funny.

>                         TO oversimplify, they need to relax
> and not be quite so self-conscious, to care less for their
> own conformities, and so forth.  

Absolutely. 

>                                   But as you say, to a
> considerable extent, the humor element is actually absent;
> young folks seem to take it all so seriously, and they have
> very little sense of the ways the human comedy directly
> involves them, I think.  As I recall, neither did we, back
> then.

I don't know that this was true of me back when I was a young
thing, since I tended to hang out with old farts in their <gasp> 
late 20's and 30's who didn't let me take anything very seriously.

Arne
From: anderson@macc.wisc.edu (Jess Anderson)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: Introduction
Date: 22 Aug 92 18:34:36 GMT
Organization: Madison Academic Computing Center, UW-Madison


In article <22AUG92.13540829@enh.nist.gov>
aberson@enh.nist.gov writes:

>In article <1992Aug21.174447.20986@macc.wisc.edu>
>anderson@macc.wisc.edu (Jess Anderson) writes:

>>Who'd want to be even 1% of a wizened old crow of 94?  Not even Jess!
>>And by then, probably Donald will be way too old for me.  I'll be
>>gumming the Nelsons Minar, Johns Dorrance, and Sims Aberson of soc.lgb

>Why wait?  I kinda like teeth.

You know, I like this attitude in a man.  When shall I
expect you?  I thought your pic from the con was most
fetching.

<> I remember visiting Dachau, and seeing the visitors'
<> film (in English), where the narrator made the point
<> (as I took it) that Nazi Germany was the product of
<> a handful of men terrorizing a nation into cowering
<> obedience.  What bullshit.  Just how quickly do the
<> history books start getting re-written?
<> -- Joel Parthemore (joelp@cs.man.ac.uk)
-- 
Jess Anderson <> Madison Academic Computing Center <> University of Wisconsin
Internet: anderson@macc.wisc.edu <-best, UUCP:{}!uwvax!macc.wisc.edu!anderson
NeXTmail w/attachments: anderson@yak.macc.wisc.edu  Bitnet: anderson@wiscmacc
Room 3130 <> 1210 West Dayton Street / Madison WI 53706 <> Phone 608/262-5888
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: pst@csd4.csd.uwm.edu (Peter Stephen Thomas Iii)
Subject: Re: UNGAY GAY
Organization: Computing Services Division, University of Wisconsin - Milwaukee
Date: Wed, 12 Aug 1992 20:30:02 GMT

In article <1992Aug12.175827.8132@spdcc.com> rdonahue@spdcc.com (Bob Donahue) writes:
>georgere@microsoft.com (George V. Reilly) writes:
>	The obvious unit is mass per unit height, or mass per units
>cross section (kg/cm or kg/cm^2)...
>
>	Since people aren't cylinders, I suppose we'll have to go with
>the first --- although I suppose one could create a fake cylinder
>using waist size as a representative circumference and then height...
>hmmm...  No I guess not because that is a density sort of thing... although
>that might also be a good unit...
>
>	BBC:
>	2.04 cm/kg   1.68 g/cm^3
>
>	Waldeaux:
>        30.0 cm/kg   0.08 g/cm^3 (est.)
>
>	I guess the "ideal" is something like 2.8 cm/kg and 0.9 g/cm^3
>
>
>	(Note the volume here isn't a real volume - it's a cylinder
>whose circumference is our waist size and whose height is your height.)
>(Also for the record I think the idea of an "ideal" is fallacious!)

Hmmm, nice idea, but let's try for more accuracy!  Instead of averaging out,
just get this HUGE graduated cylinder, fill it half way with water and dunk
our test subject.  Make sure he's completely submerged for an accurate volume
test.

Take the difference with between the two volumes (water with test subject and
water without test subject) to find true volume.  This had best be done with
the test subject wearing no clothes.  

Now take the dry weight of the subject and divide by volume to obtain an
accurate, averaged mass/volume density.

For the fetishists out there, try taking your favorite body part and follow
the same procedure, using only the body part instead of the entire test
subject.

See, isn't that nice and simple!

Now where can we find these *HUGE*  *GRADUATED*  *CYLINDERS*

Peter Thomas

-- 
"I'll lose my beard when they shave it from my cold, dead face!"

Quote from the Razor's Anonymous Handbook
From: dyer@spdcc.com (Steve Dyer)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: Rob Bernardo
Date: 17 Aug 92 22:30:51 GMT
Organization: S.P. Dyer Computer Consulting, Cambridge MA

In article <g95LPB3w164w@penn.Gwinnett.COM> bfbear@penn.Gwinnett.COM (Penn Collins) writes:
>I too, just had to say how startled I was about Bob's death (I don't even
>know if I knew him enough to use his first name).

Hmmm, I have barely managed to read "Robert Bernardo" without flinching.
Penn, there are many "Bob"s in this world, but Rob wasn't one of them.
I wish he were here to start a chorus of joyous indignation at the
mangling of his name!  That would be one sweet flame we'd all welcome.

-- 
Steve Dyer
dyer@ursa-major.spdcc.com aka {ima,harvard,rayssd,linus,m2c}!spdcc!dyer
From: mdrayton@sr.hp.com (Mike Drayton)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: GRANDPA WALTON: Is he gay?  Help please....
Date: 20 Aug 92 21:19:15 GMT
Article-I.D.: scd.BtAwK3.BAr
Distribution: na
Organization: Hewlett-Packard, Santa Clara Division
X-Newsreader: Tin 1.1.1 PL5

John_Graves@cellbio.duke.edu wrote:
 [about Bush's preference for the Waltons over the Simpsons]
 
> He means, much more likely, the Walton's, that fabulous merchant family which
> owns WalMart's and which is considered the second wealthiest family in the
> world.  Valued today at about $28 Billion dollars.
> 
> These are his people, not the poor folk of Walton Mountain.
--------------------
Good observation John, though I'm still hoping for Richard Thomas to 
publicly castigate Bush for trying to use "The Waltons" for his own 
selfish purposes.

Mike Drayton 
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: jns@wam.umd.edu (J. N. Shaumeyer)
Subject: redefining typing
Organization: Militant Homosexual Lobby, Gay Lifestyle, Inc.
Date: Sat, 22 Aug 1992 02:08:23 GMT

Mk Drytn (mdrayton@sr.hp.com) wrts:
 
> Bob Sarver (bobsarv@microsoft.com) wrote:
> > (feminine gay name)
> > should have been:
> > "name of a feminine gay"
> ----------
> No!  Should have been:  "name of a fem. gay".
> Keep on using those abbrevs. to sv bndwdth!  
> Mk Drytn

!2 frgt grtr spd @ sum lss of clrty.

--jns