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Date:         Thu, 5 Nov 1992 10:15:10 CST
Reply-To:     bradk@isdgsm.rtsg.mot.com
From:         "(Brad Kaiser)" <bradk%isdgsm@RTSG.MOT.COM>
Subject:      Re: Free Will and Predestination
              Nov 5, 92 8:37 am

I'd like to jump in, if you and Dave don't mind ...

Michael, you write:

> >And the debate rages: intrinsic righteousness or extrinsic
> >righteousness?  If it's the latter then you have a sound argument.
> >If it's the former then you have a significant problem.
>
> It is both, and one day you and I will laugh about it together, if
> not here, then somewhere.  The intrinsic righteousness of man lies
> in the indwelling Father fragment, of which you and most others do not
> recognize the importance.  The Father fragment carries the divine
> plan of initial life for each mortal, to be utilized or not depending
> on the degree of the mortal's submission to the will of the Father.
> This divine plan for each mortal is the predestined portion of each of
> us.  Since we are on a planet which has seen rebellion by its celestial
> administrators, we are disadvantaged in some ways (advantaged in
> others) including the loss of the planned genetic uplifting which was
> to have been carried out by Adam and Eve.  The upgrade in mortal
> vehicles (host physical bodies) would have gained us the added
> spiritual receptivity to 'hear' the Father fragment more clearly.
> We have been infused with but a small portion of the 'blood of Adam.'

A few questions:

  1) Is Jesus Christ truly God, in every sense?

  2) If so, where on earth today is the infallible source of His
     true doctrine?

  3) Upon what or whose authority do you base *your* teaching?

> We simply disagree.  We are God's children, made in His image and I
> feel certain we are conceived according to His wishes.

Scripture says you were conceived in sin (Ps 51).  Sonship comes only
through adoption into the family of God through the grace of Jesus
Christ (Rom 8:15-17); there is no other Name by which man is to be
saved.  How do you know that your feelings do not deceive you?

> How can you say that we are inherently evil? - do you not believe that we
> are made in His image?  Natural urges can be mastered by the mind.
                          ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Good luck; it never worked for me.  Let me know when you've worked the
bugs out.

> Please answer:
> What do you have to give to God if it is not the submission of your
> sovereign will? (What are you offering to God if not this most sublime
> attribute of man?)

While I believe that man has a will, it is certainly not sovereign.  God
always has the "last laugh", so to speak.  (Not to imply that God laughs
at us; merely a figure of speech.)

> How can you give Him anything if you have no
> part in the decisions in your life.  And lastly, what shampoo is it
> that God chooses for you?

He gave me a mild form of dandruff.  Moved and impelled by this grace of
suffering, I chose Head and Shoulders.

> Your confusion, to sum, lies IMO in the incomplete understanding of
> the following concepts:
>         1. the Father fragment indwelling each mortal and the plan
>              this entity carries
>         2. the ascension plan for mortals on the evolutionary realms
>              after this initial life
>         3. the divine link of creature and Creator/ the true religious
>              experience
>         4. acceptance of mortal literature as 'Divine Word'
>         5. His request that we submit our will to His
>         6. the dual nature of man: flesh and spirit.

My confusion lies in my incomplete understanding of your source of
authority.  If it is based only on your own interior experiences of
"God", you can a) not expect me to accept it based solely on your
word; and b) never have confidence, IMHO, that it really comes from
God.

>    (I'll stop here.)           in brotherhood,  Michael Million

Peace,

Brad Kaiser
(bradk%isdgsm@rtsg.mot.com)

	  Those who trust in Him shall understand truth,
	  and the faithful shall abide with Him in love;
	  Because grace and mercy are with His holy ones,
	  and His care is with His elect.
		    -- Wis 3:9 [NAB]
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