From: bill@cognet.ucla.edu (William M. Eldridge)
Subject: Re: american opinion
Organization: UCLA Cognitive Science Research Program
Distribution: talk
Date: Tue, 29 Dec 1992 20:48:41 GMT

hm@cs.brown.edu (Harry Mamaysky) writes:

>In article <bill.725596124@bcserv>, bill@bcserv.wustl.edu (Eldridge (Bill)) writes:
>|> >When was the last time you had the privilege of visiting Israel. It is
>|> >most certainly a democratic Western country. It has all the features
>|> >of democracy that we have in the U.S. Perhaps the fact that it is an
>|> >all Jewish country bothers you? 
>|> 
>|> An extremely large population routinely denied suffrage, land ownership,
>|> and subject to discriminatory curfews is one of the features of 
>|> democracy here?  Perhaps thirty years ago this was somewhat still
>|> true, but now it's very inaccurate.  And perhaps you should clue
>|> yourself in that Israel is not an "all Jewish country."  Your
>|> leanings are way out in front, aren't they?

>Israel has something like 700,000 Arabs who are its citizens. They
>enjoy all (most - they do not serve in the army and therefore do not
>have the benefits associated with service. But they do not serve for
>their own benefit. Some or most do not want to fight against their
>fellow Arabs) of the privileges enjoyed by the Israeli Jews. I have
>seen how they live - and they certainly would be among the top 5% of
>well off Arabs in the world. 

>The Palestinians, on the other hand, have never wanted to be Israeli
>citizens. 
>... . It is hardly fair to insist that Israel
>denies citizenship to people who do not want to be its citizens.

Israeli Arabs are among the 5% at the top, but those pesky Palestinians
just don't want to join the success.  Any idea why?  Are the Palestinians
of different heritage than the Israeli Arabs?

So Palestinians in Israel (the West Bank, which Israel claims) are
given no voting rights despite having resided in the territory for
umpteen generations, but this is comparable to western democracy.
Also, I would love to know how easy it is for an Arab to buy prime
real estate in downtown Tel Aviv.

Israel has understood demographics very well in its dealings with
the Arab population, which is how an Arab population got a Jewish
minority state foisted upon it in the first place.

>By the way, the Arab representation in the Knesset is (percentage
>wise) far more reflective of the demographics of the country than,
>say, the black representation in the American Congress. In fact, the
>Arab vote represents a major voice during all Israeli elections.

Get real.  Blacks have major representation in the American Congress,
especially when you consider that whites enact legislation intended
to help blacks - a pretty rare occurrence in Israel, when Arab schools
are often shut down and curfews are imposed on their populations.
Do you remember Shamir or Rabin fervently seeking a coalition with
any Arab factions in forming the government?  Do you remember them
offering concessions to Arab leaders, and not just to the more
soft-hearted Jewish electorate?

>I do not see your claim as valid. Yes, the Palestinian problem must be
>rectified - and soon. However, insisting that Israel give them Israeli
>citizenship is probably the last thing the Palestinians really want.

>|> Perhaps you should look at pictures from Iraq or Sarajevo, and then
>|> give me a definition of "ravaged".  Israel sat tight, and now
>|> expects to be paid very handsomely for it. (or did - there is a
>|> question of whether having the loan guarantees now dooms the
>|> peace process more than any other act).

>Well, what is your point? Yes, Israel was very patient. 

My point is that Israel was not "ravaged" in the Iraq war.
This is just trying to blow up the sympathy level for Israel
to get more money.  Everybody else in the world PAID during that
war.  Israel feels it deserves a profit.
(Casualties?  Ten?  Oh my.)
-- 
{{{{ bill eldridge           310-206-3960                x                }}}}
{{{{ bill@cognet.ucla.edu    310-206-3987 fax           xxx              }}}}
{{{{ ~more, ~better, ~faster [80's motto]                x              }}}}
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Xref: sparky talk.politics.mideast:24004 soc.culture.greek:11834 soc.culture.europe:10762 soc.rights.human:4659