HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: ronkko@cc.helsinki.fi
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.hardware
Subject: Re: C/A is not CBM. Re: The Real A4000 Argument.
Date: 14 Oct 92 22:20:28 GMT
Organization: University of Helsinki

In article <1992Oct14.101834.90331@vaxc.cc.monash.edu.au>, 
bull@vaxc.cc.monash.edu.au writes:
 
> Commodore Buisiness Machines are the marketing people. CBM has branches
> in most countries/global regions, eg CBM-USA, CBM-Canada, CBM-UK,
> CBM-Germany, CBM-Sweden, CBM-Australia, etc.
> 
> CBM does not design the Amiga, they market it.
> CBM decides the powerup deals, educational discounts, prices for the
> different models, etc.
> 
>         Even within the CBM branches, each branch has the right to
> develop their own marketing schemes. The reason why we don't get power-up
> deals in Europe and Australasia is because the CBM branches in those
> areas do not decide to offer them. Look at the A1500 from CBM-UK, but
> not from any other branch. No single branch of CBM is obliged to offer
> any marketing scheme that any other branch of CBM offers. 

But are all of those 'branches' on the same line? Is the cost of a certain 
product the same for e.g. CBM-Sweden and CBM-USA? If not, the consumer
prices are not dependent only on 'local marketing politics'. In Finland
there used to be only one authorized importer of C= products, (PCI-Data; 
bankrupted two years ago, RIP), and their prices for Amiga stuff were extremely
high (the list price of A2620 was 20 000 Fmk, equaling about 4400 USD!). The
representatives of that company eplained that the high prices were due the
fact they had to pay more than other national companies for their machines.
I am not sure if this was the only reason for high prices, but the result 
was that lots of people bought their Amiga products directly from USA or 
Germany, or from some local gray market dealers (these machines were mostly 
from Germany, as far as I know). 
 
So, even if every a subsidiary had the right to decide their own marketing 
politics, it would be VERY WISE for them to COOPERATE and try to offer at least 
roughly the same level of prices and basic support in each marketing area. 
Otherwise people from expensive area just order their machines from some 
cheaper place (or even worse, abandon Amiga totally), and the local marketing 
and support system collapses, as happened here in Finland.

(I know that CBM-USA don't like their products to be sold outside their own
marketing area, but I doubt there is any of them who would have paid over 
4000 USD for A2620, either... But if there is, I can always sell mine just 
for 999 ! Anyone...? ;-)

 
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
  Reijo Ronkko     University of Helsinki, Dept. of General Microbiology,
                   Mannerheimintie 172, 00300 Helsinki, FINLAND
                   Fax +358-0-4735426     Ronkko@cc.helsinki.fi
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: Roger_Nordin@atb.bbs.bad.se (Roger Nordin)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.hardware
Subject: The Real A4000 Argument.  Barrett Bashing, Too... :)
Date: 10 Oct 92 07:24:35 GMT
Reply-To: Roger_Nordin@atb.bbs.bad.se (Roger Nordin)
Organization: ANet Test Bench, Karlstad, Sweden
OD-Comment-To: Internet_Gateway

> 1.  68040 card                $1800.00

Beep! The PP&S original 25Mhz 68040 card costs WAY much less than that, around 
$1000. You're not comparing the A4000 with 28 or 33Mhz 68040 high-tech 
accelerators, are you?

> If someone were to purchase an A3000...   $1450.00
> And "upgrade" to A4000 stats
...then (s)he also needs to add a SCSI host adapter, and preferably a 
flickerfixer. I didn't see you list these items. Also, the A3000/VGA user 
would need to dump his monitor too, as the A4000 lacks a flickerfixer that 
converts the 15Khz resolutions to 31KHz, so (s)he would need a more expensive 
multisync monitor.

> Also note that you still don't get 2000fps,

I was under the impression that this figure was for the doublebuffered 
Release3 routines in the kickstart. A3000 runs Release3 very well, in case you 
didn't know. Developers have been running Release3 on A3000 machines for a 
long time now.

> You would get better graphics in terms of 24bit with the graphics
> card, but it would not be as compatable as the AGA software out there.

Sure thing. It would be as compatible as a 24bit card in the A4000 though, 
when it comes to 24-bit video applications.

> and certainly not as fast.

Do you say DMI Vidid 24 is slower than the AGA chips? Certainly not. Sure, 
just that card will cost you more than an A3000/040 or A4000. :) Seriously, 
the Zorro III bus offers much higher bandwidth than the chipbus in the A4000, 
and video cards often have their own graphic processors. There's actually no 
reason why such a card would be slower than the AGA chips.

> By purchasing the A4000, a user gets a higher end machine

Only concerning graphics colours and improved bandwidth. There's no SCSI bus. 
There's no Zorro III one on the marked to add either, to match the A3000 host 
adaptor. A3000 can be powered with higher-speed '040 cards right from the 
start if desiried. The A3000 supports cheap VGA monitors. It also runs hires/
lace applications with a non-lace 31Khz output. What does the A4000 offer 
instead? More colours and chip bus bandwidth. Which do I think is most 
important? This is the question you must ask yourself. My choise is already 
made. But if an imporoved A4000 is released soon, I guess I have to reconsider 
it.

The A4000 could be a proper high-end machine, if only C= would finish it with 
8Mb CHIP RAM and a SCSI bus. Right now, it feels like a "beta" sort of 
computer design, only half finished!

                        _       .    __
    Roger Nordin     _ //      /!Net /est Bench
 2:203/602.0@fidonet \X/  Internet: Roger_Nordin@bad.se

---
From: ross@cbmvax.commodore.com (Ross Hippely - Manuals)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.hardware
Subject: Re: A4000 Hardware questions
Summary: You can't always get what you want
Date: 16 Oct 92 14:40:39 GMT
Reply-To: ross@cbmvax.commodore.com (Ross Hippely - Manuals)
Followup-To: comp.sys.amiga.hardware
Organization: Commodore, West Chester, PA

In article <3alu03kxadYJ00@amdahl.uts.amdahl.com> alan@uts.amdahl.com (Alan Bomberger) writes:
>daveh@cbmvax.commodore.com (Dave Haynie) writes:
>
>>Anyone who swaps cables around with the power on gets just what they deserve

[...]

>Sorry, I am not all that mad just curious as to why you are so
>emphatic that it is silly for me to want to swap cables while my
>computer is running??

He didn't say it is silly to *want* to.  

Just that it's silly to do so.

-- 
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ross Hippely:                                               Technical Writer
employed by, not speaking for:              Commodore Business Machines Inc.
From: JEFF-G@cup.portal.com (Jeff - Griffin)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.hardware
Subject: Is my HD *dying*?
Date: Wed, 14 Oct 92 01:58:11 PDT
Organization: The Portal System (TM)

I have a Conners 105meg mounted to a GVP SCSI board. This combination hbeen
working w/o a hitch for two+ years until the last few days...
 
Upon cold_starting the HD light remains 'on' (no flickering) for 1+ minutes,
then I am presented with the 1.3 'hand'. I re-boot (ctrl-Amiga-Amiga) and 
or power down/power up only to have the same thing happen. This on/off 
procedure has increased (# of times required before the HD actually 'spins_up
markedly over the last two days, (this morning I had to do it 5 times befo
the HD started spinning/booting).  I have backed_up the drive (whew!). I have
popped the 'hood' and checked all connections (they are solidly connected).
 
Any/all suggestions would be appreciated,          Thanks,  Jeff
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.hardware
From: meisl@forwiss.uni-passau.de (Wolfgang Meisl)
Subject: Re: Info on A2024 monitor wanted
Organization: University of Passau, Germany
Date: Fri, 9 Oct 1992 10:50:42 GMT

In article <35641@cbmvax.commodore.com>, peter@cbmvax.commodore.com (Peter Cherna) writes:
|> In article <1992Oct6.135819.6739@mpifr-bonn.mpg.de> mlelstv@specklec.mpifr-bonn.mpg.de (Michael van Elst) writes:
|> 
|> >>50Hz for 1024x1024 and 60 for 1024x800 is correct. I have one at home and I
|> >>really like it. You don't really see, that it's 50 or 60Hz.
|> >
|> >Yes, the monitor has a long persistence phosphor.
|> 
|> I believe the monitor indeed scans at 72 Hz.  The data update rate (rate
|> at which the Amiga feeds bitplane data to the A2024) is independent of
|> the monitor refresh rate.  Thus, even though the A2024 screen is composed
|> out of NTSC or PAL screens, the imagery is refreshed 72 times per second,
|> which is very steady and flicker-free.

I really can't agree to this!. I use a paperwhite A2024 with a PAL Amiga.
The white screen before the reboot flickers terribly. It even flickers more than
my good old Hercules Monitor, I used before. Since my Agnus don't like NTSC,
I am using a 60Hz software hack, which is really an improvement.
With a green screen, things may look different, but the monitor has definitly 
_not_ a 72Hz refresh rate.

|> The data update rate is really 10 or 15 Hz (NTSC), or 8.33 or 12.5 Hz (PAL),
|> because the A2024 modes are composed of 4 or 6 NTSC or PAL panels.
|> 
|> >Michael van Elst
|> 
|>      Peter
|> --
|> Peter Cherna, User Interface Development Group, Commodore-Amiga, Inc.
|> {uunet|rutgers}!cbmvax!peter    peter@cbmvax.commodore.com
|> My opinions do not necessarily represent the opinions of my employer.
|> "I believe it's bad luck to be superstitious."


Ciao,  Wolfgang 

Wolfgang Meisl -----------------  meisl@mozart.fmi.uni-passau.de
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.hardware
From: ggibeau@ucqais.cba.uc.edu (George G. Gibeau)
Subject: second serial port on A500 or A600???
Summary: Can this be done?
Keywords: Amiga 500, Amiga 600, second serial port
Organization: University of Cincinnati, College of Business
Distribution: usa
Date: Thu, 15 Oct 1992 14:05:39 GMT

Can anyone tell me what the easiest way to add a second serial
port to either an A500 or an A600 might be?  We are developing
a kiosk system that unfortunately uses both a serial touchscreen
as well as a serial laser player (both of which are already
purchased).  The machine has to be either a A500 or A600 udue to
size constraints.

Any help, ideas, comments telling me I am crazy, whatever will be
greatly appreciated.

Regards,
George
-- 
George Gerald Gibeau, Jr.   ggibeau@ucqais.uc.edu
University of Cincinnati    Department of Biological Sciences
Ecologists - we'll save the world, even if it kills you.
From: barre@cenaath.cena.dgac.fr (Roland BARRE)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.hardware
Subject: A590 with scsi HD ?
Date: 16 Oct 92 09:37:07 GMT
Organization: C.E.N.A. (Centre d'Etudes de la Navigation Aerienne)


Please people who install an scsi drive in a590 could email me?

After 8 hours of install my scsi refused to work(correctly) with my A590


thanks

 


-- 
---------------------------------------------------------
Roland BARRE, barre@dgac.fr
              
Centre d'Etudes de la Navigation Aerienne        
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.hardware
From: tsm2124@ritvax.isc.rit.edu
Subject: Re: AdSpeed Info
Reply-To: tsm2124@ritvax.isc.rit.edu
Organization: Rochester Institute of Technology
Date: Wed, 7 Oct 1992 04:07:55 GMT

I have asked them about the 2.x problem and they just said that
the cache is not legal on 68000's and the KS tests screw up.  I
really like their products and the tech support is decent, but they
are very tight lipped.  I had and AdSCSI 2080 and now have an
AdSCSI and an AdRam2080.  I need a new rom for the adscsi and there is
a new coming out "in a week or two" so I am waiting.  I asked them
if it would work ok with 3.x and they said 3.x isn't out yet
and they can't talk about it.  They are also making a new formatting
software.  Anyway the 3.0 rom is needed to work well with 2.x and
3.5 is coming out "soon".   They are also making a new 
HD/memory board with SCSI-2 support and it is supposed to be much 
faster.  He said the 2000 version should be ready in about two months,
so I obviuosly asked about a Zorro-III version and he just shut up
and wouldn't say anything else.  Oh well.... life goes on and I will
have to wait for the damn 3.5 ROM.

		Todd Major
From: grr@cbmvax.commodore.com (George Robbins)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.hardware
Subject: Re: Two A4000 questions
Date: 7 Oct 92 15:52:40 GMT
Reply-To: grr@cbmvax.commodore.com (George Robbins)
Organization: Commodore, West Chester, PA

In article <stefanb.718458688@hathi> stefanb@hathi.informatik.rwth-aachen.de (Stefan Becker) writes:
> Hi!
> Just 2 questions:
> 
> 1) The A3000 supported static column RAM chips. Does the A4000 Ramsey chip
>    support this type too?

Since it's the same chip, in theory yes.  However, since the A4000 uses SIMM's,
it would depend on the avilability of Static Columns SIMM's.  There may be
other system issues that Dave can address, so don't buy chips on my say-so.

> 2) The C= Ethernet board (A205?) is a Zorro-II board. Does it use DMA to
>    transfer its data? If it does, can it still be used in the A4000?

The Ethernet board is set up with a shared memory packet buffer that the
AMD Ethernet chip accesses via "DMA" and the Amiga accesses as memory.

This is fairly traditional, the AMD chip can't tolerate too much DMA bus
latency and the Zorro II bus may have to wait ~50 uS for bus arbitration
if the processor is waiting for a chip memory/register access and you are
using one of the 100% saturation video modes. 
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.hardware
From: mucci@circle.cs.jhu.edu (Philip Mucci)
Subject: How do I convert my 3000 to a 3000T?
Organization: Johns Hopkins Computer Science Department, Baltimore, MD
Date: Thu, 8 Oct 1992 07:03:02 GMT

	Does anyone know if it's possible to convert a 3000 desktop model
to a tower case? I'd love to be able to buy a cheap tower case and
switch. Has anyone done this?
From: ross@cbmvax.commodore.com (Ross Hippely - Manuals)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.hardware
Subject: Re: HELP!!!! Code blue! 3000
Summary: Try pressing chips down
Keywords: a3000 chips
Date: 15 Oct 92 14:02:10 GMT
Article-I.D.: cbmvax.35916
Reply-To: ross@cbmvax.commodore.com (Ross Hippely - Manuals)
Followup-To: comp.sys.amiga.hardware
Organization: Commodore, West Chester, PA

In article <QUINLAN.92Oct14164107@spsd630a.erim.org> quinlan@spsd630a.erim.org (Kevin Quinlan) writes:
>
>My 3000 just went tits-up as well. Same problem you've described. 
>I took it in to an authorized service center and they couldn't 
>diagnose the problem, other than to say "It looks like the problem 
>is on the motherboard. $580 to replace." Of course, my Gold Service 
>warranty expired two months prior. So now I'm stuck with a paperweight.
>Does any one (preferably someone from Commodore) know of a solution?
>
>Kevin Quinlan
>Research Engineer                                  
>Environmental Research Institute of Michigan       
>Ann Arbor, Michigan                                
>INTERNET: quinlan@erim.org                         

One suggestion (only a suggestion; I'm not one of the engineers):

Try pushing down firmly on all the socketed chips in the machine.  I've 
resuscitated an A3000 with similar won't-boot symptoms as the first poster
described by doing so.  Be careful pressing down on ZIP chips, as they can
bend and break easily and then you've got a REAL problem.

As always, take proper precautions (e.g. unplug it first); this is not an
official recommendation from Commodore; your mileage may vary; don't take
any wooden nickels, etc. etc...  

At least you don't have to worry about voiding your warranty, though :-/

-- 
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ross Hippely:                                               Technical Writer
employed by, not speaking for:              Commodore Business Machines Inc.
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.hardware
From: barrett@iastate.edu (Marc N Barrett)
Subject: Re: A4000 graphics
Organization: Iowa State University, Ames, IA
Date: Sun, 11 Oct 1992 05:55:26 GMT

In article <54565@dime.cs.umass.edu> barrett@astro.cs.umass.edu (Daniel Barrett) writes:
>In article <1992Oct9.120923.24835@ifi.uio.no> nilsco@ifi.uio.no (Nils Liaaen Corneliusen) writes:
>>I have followed the "Avoid the Amiga 4000" debate and would like to have the
>>following questions answered:
>>Fact: All old screenmodes will be shown with scanlines/flicker because the
>>the A4000 has no flickerfixer.
>
>	Sorry, but you have not followed the discussion carefully
>enough.  This is NOT a fact.  Old screenmodes automatically get promoted
>to non-interlaced or scan-doubled modes.
>
>	The ONLY exceptions are programs that break the programming
>rules and directly specify these screens.
>
>	And somebody just wrote a hack that even promotes these screens,
>and mentioned it in comp.sys.amiga.misc.

   It still does not work with all programs, particularly games.  And for that
reason it still locks you into purchasing a monitor than can sync all the way
down to the 15Khz modes.

   As I have said, the real fundamental problem with the A4000 is that it 
does not give you the freedom to choose just the right monitor that you get
with an A3000.  I looked through a Computer Shopper last night, going through
all of the ads that list monitors and their specs.  I could only find one
multisync monitor that could sync down to 15Khz.  One ad listed 38 monitors
and only one could sync to 15Khz -- and that was an EGA monitor, which could
only sync to 15Khz.  Another ad listed 20 multisync monitors, and none could
sync to 15Khz.  I am not saying that no other multsync monitors exist that can 
sync to 15Khz, as I am sure they do.  But you will have a very difficult
time finding them.  By comparison, with the A3000 you have the freedom of
being able to choose between about a hundred times as many monitors to find
the one that is just right for you.

   If Commodore or a third-party company or an independent hacker can come up
with a software-only utility which will allow you to use a VGA monitor on an
A4000 with as few problems as you get when you use a VGA monitor with an
A3000, then I promise to formally withdraw all of my comments about the A4000
needing a display enhancer.

> //////////////////////////////////////\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\
>| Dan Barrett -- Dept of Computer Science, Lederle Graduate Research Center |
>| University of Massachusetts, Amherst, MA  01003  --  barrett@cs.umass.edu |
> \\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\/////////////////////////////////////

---
| Marc Barrett -MB-  |  email: barrett@iastate.edu
--------------------------------------------------
      Slick Willie Clinton: JUST SAY NO!!!
From: Roger_Nordin@atb.bbs.bad.se (Roger Nordin)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.hardware
Subject: A4000 Comments
Date: 14 Oct 92 06:40:45 GMT
Reply-To: Roger_Nordin@atb.bbs.bad.se (Roger Nordin)
Organization: ANet Test Bench, Karlstad, Sweden
OD-Comment-To: Internet_Gateway

> And they complain that you need the monitor to sync down to 15 khz
> for the software that the OS won't promote (games).

What type of game is bulit-in the boot screen? I havn't found it, please tell 
me the secret keys I need to press to activate it! :)

Seriously, 15Khz will use used instead of 29KHz Double-PAL in all situations 
when the system hasn't booted from the harddisk. It's first as the workbench 
loads that promotion will get activated.

> Well you need a monitor to sync that on an A3000 anyway to use half the 
screen > modes.

Dead wrong, my friend. Hires will be 31KHz. Lores will be 31Khz. Produtivity 
will be 31Khz. SuperHires will be 31Khz with only approx half the pixels 
visible, or 15KHz with Amber disabled.

All screen modes except SuperHires works just fine on a typical VGA monitor. 
And no, it's not a 200" monitor as you seem to suggest, it's a dirt cheap 14" 
VGA vanilla monitor.

Most importantly, the A3000 offers more non-lace resolution, with flickerfixed 
hires/lace/overscan.

> sync that on an A3000 anyway to use half the screen modes, and playing games 
> with scandoubling on the A3000 can be a real pain when it scrolls or 
something

I've never noticed this as a problem. Instead, I've always thought it was a 
great feature to get lines scan-doubled, as games seldom runs in interlace, 
thus providing a nicer, IMHO, display. But then, I almost never play games.

                        _       .    __
    Roger Nordin     _ //      /!Net /est Bench
 2:203/602.0@fidonet \X/  Internet: Roger_Nordin@bad.se

--- 
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.hardware
From: skip@tacky.cs.olemiss.edu (Skip Sauls)
Subject: Re: A4000 graphics
Organization: University of Mississippi, Dept. of Computer Science
Date: Mon, 12 Oct 1992 21:55:14 GMT

In article <1bcpk7INNdis@uwm.edu> bloc1469@ee.ee.uwm.edu (Gregory R. Block) writes:
>In article <1992Oct12.095359.15985@ifi.uio.no> nilsco@ifi.uio.no (Nils Liaaen Corneliusen) writes:
>>Yep, and that is what I want to avoid. It is still a fact, though.
>>The dblpal/ntsc does not support full overscan and would be useless 
>>in some cases. I want all modes flickerfree on the 4000, and that is 
>>not possible now it seems.
>
>Methinks you've had too much wacky-weed.  DblPAL and DblNTSC both have
>overscan capabilities.  AGA will do everything that the Amber chip did
>and MORE.  Amber could only handle 12-bit color information, and AGA
>will handle 24.

I believe that some folks are upset that the max-overscan is something
like 676 under the DblBLAH modes instead of 724 under BLAH with the
flickerfixer on the A3000.  Personally, I'm willing to give up those 48 
pixels for the extra speed, color, etc., but some folks may not be.  

If full overscan is not supported under standard BLAH, then it might
indeed be a problem for the video folks.

Skip Sauls
skip@tacky.cs.olemiss.edu
From: erd@kumiss.cmhnet.org (Ethan Dicks)
Subject: Obscure fix for broken A2000
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.hardware
Summary: Fix for A2000 with flashing power LED
Keywords: A2000 repair flashing
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1 PL6]
Date: 8 Oct 92 22:00:48 EDT
Organization: Not an Organization

I recall someone one the net asking for some help on fixing an A2000
which just sat and flashed its LED on power-up.  I am in the midst
of repairing an A2000 motherboard which was previously used as source
for spare parts at a now defunct C= dealer in my area.  At power-up,
the LED would flash a bunch (11 or 14 times, I think).  I eventually
traced it to a 74F00 located in the vicinity of the clock circuit.
This chip (u900 on my Rev 4 motherboard) was not documented in my
A500/A2000 tech. ref. manual.  Among other functions, this NAND
gate is used to gate the _BLIT signal between Agnus and Gary.  When
I replaced this IC, the machine came up and asked for a WorkBench
disk.  When provided with a disk, the A2000 booted.  It should be
a decent system once I get the mouse and keyboard working.  The
mouse buttons work, not the motion (I suspect 74LS157 @ U202) and
the machine gets continuously reset when a keyboard is plugged in
(I suspect the LM339 reset circuit).

I hope my toil can be of use.

-ethan

--
Ethan Dicks     N8TVD ! This message is brought to you by the breakfast cereal
erd@kumiss.cmhnet.org ! of Pennsic Veterans everywhere: Beerios.
                      ! "They don't stay crisp in beer, but who cares?"