HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: goldfoot-josh@yale.edu (Josh A. Goldfoot)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.starwars
Subject: Re: Lucas the literary genius?
Date: 21 Dec 1992 16:35:20 -0500
Organization: Yale University Science & Engineering UNIX(tm), New Haven, CT 06520-2158
NNTP-Posting-Host: minerva.cis.yale.edu

julie@alaska.et.byu.edu (Julie Gritton) said:

JG> Shakespeare has a timeless genius that speaks to every
JG> generation. I have yet to see SW do that. I know the kids in my
JG> classes (third grade and up) have no concept of Star Wars and
JG> would much rather see Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles. So far, I
JG> don't see Star Wars spanning the generations.

I know very few third graders who have SEEN the movies. Those idiot turtles
are everywhere. I do know, however, a number of older kids (6th grade and up)
who are very taken by the films.

I was a Star Wars nut when I was young, but I was attracted to it purely
because it was so cool looking. I understood NONE of the plot, though I saw
the movie five times. Children appreciated Star Wars on a decidedly non-
literary level, for the most part. If "Do the Third Graders Like It" becomes
our test for literary merit, then Shakespeare also fails.

JG> And don't tell me they have to be older to appreciate SW. I think most
JG> of us here discovered it when we were their age.

I discovered nifty "laser guns," light sabers, Sand People, the ability to
move objects by thinking, and Greedo. It wasn't until many years later when
I saw the films on the level I now see them. I also liked Battlestar Galactica
when I was a kid; I don't anymore.
From: f92bjsa@fy.chalmers.se (Bjorn Sandberg)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.starwars
Subject: Tech drawings of SD?
Keywords: starwars
Date: 21 Dec 92 11:42:04 GMT
Organization: Chalmers Univ. of Technology, Gothenburg, Sweden


	Hi all Star Wars fans!

	This might not really fit into this newsgroup, but it's the closest
I could get. I am designing a mini-campaign for the Star Wars RPG, where one
part is set aboard a Star Destroyer. The problem is that I haven't found any
technical drawings of any SD:s. Quite strange, don't you think?
	I mean, the Death Star is documented in Death Star Companion and there's
only one of it (at a time, that is...), but there's supposed to be thousands
(or hundreds, at least) of SD:s. Could anyone help me out???

"Never tell me the odds!"		-- BJORN
From: shoham@ll.mit.edu (Daniel Shoham)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.starwars
Subject: Re: Another error?
Date: 31 Dec 92 23:39:18 GMT
Organization: MIT Lincoln Laboratory

>>ONCE AGAIN, it is not the NON-GLOWING of the saber (which I admit may be an
>>FX glitch) it is the VISBILE SHORTENING. (And it is not "some stated", it is
>>only me. No brave soul had backed me up on that one yet!)
>>
>>Ben's fighting technique, the music, Darth comment, and the visuals are all
>>consistent with a shortening saber.
>
>No one has backed you up because without 3-D glasses there is no
>depth perception, and without depth, what you call a shortening
>of a saber blade is more rationally explained as a blade pointed
>towards the camera rather than at a profile.  The blade is not shortened.
>However, believe what you want.

Ahaa. A common fallacy of those who take geometry too literally. It is not
required to have 3D vision to "measure" (or just visualize) an object if
it follows traceable motion on a 2D projection!

- begin lecture mode.

A way to understand this statement, is to first consider a stationary object.
If we view the object with two angularly seperated eyes (i.e. stereo-vision),
we can visualize it's 3D nature easily enough (that's how people get their
normal depth perception). If we view the object with only one eye (or one
movie camera) we only get a 2D projection of the image. HOWEVER, if we image
the object with one eye, and then move the eye to a different position and
image it again, WE NOW HAVE ALL THE INFORMATION NEEDED TO FORM A 3D IMAGE.

- An identical effect takes place if the object changes position while our
eye (or camera) stays fixed.

This is not just a mathematical image-processing algorithm, this is exactly
how the brain works. People with only one eye *DO* have depth perception
(conterary to popular myth), they just have to move their heads a little if
the objects they view are not moving themselves. You too can try this at home:
close one eye and see if you can take action that clearly require depth
perception - like walking up and down the stairs. You will be amazed how well
you can do.

- end lecture mode.

Also note: Never had any other saber suffered from "shortening", which puts
the "viewer angle" counter-theory in serious doubt.

I really recommend you rewatch the Ben-Vader duel scene and look for this
saber-shortening. It really is there.

And will any brave soul back me up now, or must Truth alone be my witness.
:-)


Dan Shoham               shoham@ll.mit.edu
------------------------------------------------------------------------
The view presented are not necessarily those of my employer, etc.

Massachusetts Institute of Technology
Lincoln Laboratory
244 Wood Street
Lexington Massachusetts, 02173-9108
Office B-373
617-981-3515
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.starwars
From: knecht@avalon.physik.unizh.ch (knecht roland)
Subject: RPG - "Haste"-question
Summary: Haste and multiple actions penalty?
Organization: University of Zurich, Department of Computer Science
X-Newsreader: Tin 1.1 PL4
Date: Sun, 27 Dec 1992 21:52:32 GMT


Hi there!

I have one question about the haste rules in the SWRPG Rules Companion and
the multiple action penalty.
Maybe it's just because I'm swiss and english is a foreign language to me
(as you will notice :-)   ).


In combat a player declares an action (a shot)
and a "haste". That will be two actions (Penalty 1D)... right?

If the player declares an action and double haste, will that be two
actions ("action" and "double haste" - Penalty 1D) or three actions
("action" + "haste"+ "haste" - Penalty 2D)?
If it is only two actions - what keeps the player from declaring "one
billion haste" to surely be the first one who acts?

The player declares two actions (2 shots) and a "haste". Does the
haste-action affect both shots or just one of them? Does every "normal"
action need a separate "haste-action"?

The player declares three actions (shots). The first shall be with
tripple-haste, the second with double-haste and the last with normal
haste. Would that be 6 haste-actions (3+2+1) or 3 (tripple-haste) or just
one (one "tripple-haste-action")?


Hope somebody knows the answers ;-)


Greetings!

Roland Knecht

Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.starwars
From: craig@odie.cs.mun.ca (Craig Coffin)
Subject: Re: Future Movies
Organization: CS Dept., Memorial University of Newfoundland
Date: Mon, 21 Dec 1992 06:02:49 GMT

shoham@ll.mit.edu (Daniel Shoham) writes:

>While our heros are heaving some garbage problems in ANH, C3PO says (to R2D2):
>   "Thank goodness, they haven't found them! Where could they be?"
>
>In ESB, (guess when) C3PO says:
>   "Oh, thank goodness we're coming out of the asteroid field"
>
>In ROJ, when C3PO gets up after falling from the Ewok net (just before being
>recognized as a diety), he says:
>   "Oh, my head. Oh, my goodness!"
>
>Also in ROJ, after C3PO ended his jedi-induced flight that scared the Ewok (and
>himself), he says:
>   "Oh, oh, oh, oh! Thank goodness."
>
>And, after R2D2 was put out of action at the bunker enterance (ROJ), C3PO says:
>   "My goodness! Artoo, why did you have to be so brave?"

You missed one:
  "Ne chutta hhat yudd!"   (or reasonable facsimile)
  "Goodness gracious me!"

-- 

Craig Coffin          |  "Try not.  Do, or do not.  There is no try."
craig@odie.cs.mun.ca  |       -- Yoda, TESB

Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.starwars
From: winikoff@cs.mu.OZ.AU (Michael David WINIKOFF)
Subject: Favorite moments ...
Keywords: Darth Vader Luke Cremation
Organization: Computer Science, University of Melbourne, Australia
Date: Tue, 29 Dec 1992 05:11:42 GMT

No one seems to have mentioned this one yet ...

One of my favorite moments in the trilogy is when Luke cremates
Darth Vaders remains in ROTJ.

It somehow makes me feel kinda sad for Darth Vader who, despite
being a bad guy had a sort of integrity and nobility.

Michael
winikoff@cs.mu.oz.au
-- 

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Software Engineering: Quality through Deforestation.

Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.starwars
From: jeffy@cray.com (Jeffrey Neau)
Subject: Re: Meaningless dialogue
Organization: Cray Research, Inc.
Date: 30 Dec 92 13:06:35 CST

In article <1992Dec29.132857.20494@watson.ibm.com> trogers@yktvmv.vnet.ibm.com writes:
>
>Side-bar your honor:  C-3P0 can use contractions, and is thus technically
>superior to Lt. Cmdr Data of STNG.  Also, C-3P0 is a liar, because he
>knows the princess and tells Luke that he doesn't.  ("Who is she",
>"I don't know.  A passenger on our last voyage, I think  Someone of
>importance").

Why do you assume that he knew the princess?  He may have not known...

>We now continue with our regularly scheduled post:  C-3P0 realizes that
>the cannot outrun (the main defensive capability of a blockade runner)
>their enemy with the main reactor shut down.
>
>As for, "The damage doesn't look as bad from out here".  One would assume
>that if captured, the ship had to have surrendered or been overtaken by
>force.  Either way, the ship should be in shambles.  Due to the expert
>targeting by the SD, few shots were needed to disable the BR.
>
>Your story sounds good.  I just assume that mine is possible too?
>
>Regards,
>Tom Rogers
>roy@trigger.watson.ibm.com
>----------------------------------------------------------------------
>| Disclaimer:  The comments in this post  | - What is your name?     |
>|              are not necessarily shared | - What is your quest?    |
>|              with my employer           | - What is...             |
>----------------------------------------------------------------------


Lines: 7
Date: Sat,  2 Jan 93 21:40:28 MST
From: julie@kentucky.et.byu.edu (Julie Gritton)
Organization: Brigham Young University, Provo UT USA
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.starwars
Subject: Re: Denis Lawson
Reply-To: julie@bones.et.byu.edu
Distribution: na

Hey, I'm all for Denis Lawson.  I thought Wedge's role was tragically
short in the trilogy.

Get the cassette of Heir to the Empire.  He reads it.  I never
realized he was British...

"You could use a good kiss!"		JULIE
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.starwars
From: dkemper@oolong.hacks.arizona.edu (David Kemper)
Subject: Re: Another error?
Organization: University of Administrative Incompetence
Date: Thu, 31 Dec 1992 19:55:36 GMT
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.4-a4  
Reply-To: dkemper@oolong.hacks.arizona.edu
Distribution:  world
X-Posted-From: oolong.hacks.arizona.edu
NNTP-Posting-Host: sol.ctr.columbia.edu

In article <1992Dec31.203947.15228@nic.funet.fi>, tapio@nic.funet.fi (Tapio Keih{nen) writes...
>One more... The possible tennis shoe ship in ROTJ.  Who says that
>those Star Wars guys are about as tall as we? I know that some of
>their measurements have been given, for example Chewie is about n feet
>tall. But those 'feet', 'metres', 'inches' etc which appear in Star
>Wars, are probably local measurements and not Tellus measurements. So,
>back to the main point: Some rebel guys, about 0.05 inch tall, came to
>earth and found some lost Nike tennis shoe. They were short of ships
>and noticed that they could use the Nike shoe easily. They just put
>some engines in it and there they went happily again. One biiiiiig
>ship more for them. With the ultimate assistance of this ship they'd
>beat the hell out of Empire!

Actually it's a little known fact that the entire Star Wars universe exists
inside the electron of a carbon molecule within a rock near the south edge
of Sioux Falls, South Dakota.  The proof is too long to present here, but
if you have a PhD in physics and carefully freeze-frame through the Wampa
attack on Luke, taking careful note of the impact of the Wampa's hand and
the subsequent impact of Luke onto the snow, it becomes quite obvious.
Because of this, a tennis shoe from earth would be far too huge for anyone
in the Star Wars universe to even see, let alone use as a spacecraft.  The
real explanation is that we are not meant to take the shoe literally, only
symbolically.  It represents the Rebellion kicking the Empire's butt.

I'm going home now.

--Gallandro

    "Take it easy, kid.  It's only a movie."   --Ham Salad, "Hardware Wars"
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.starwars
From: L.H.Wood@lut.ac.uk
Subject: Re: A star-wars lovers christmas
Reply-To: L.H.Wood@lut.ac.uk (Lloyd Wood)
Organization: Loughborough University, UK.
Date: Sat, 2 Jan 93 06:04:11 GMT

The following talk.bizarre article has to be my favorite post of this year.
(Not difficult, at 5AM on the second of January, but.....)
Enjoy!

L.H.Wood@uk.ac.lut

Article 77144 of talk.bizarre:
From: adw3345@ultb.isc.rit.edu (A.D. Williams)
Newsgroups: talk.bizarre
Subject: CHRISTMAS CRECHE
Date: 1 Jan 93 20:50:01 GMT
Reply-To: adw3345@ultb.rit.edu ()
Organization: Rochester Institute of Technology
Originator: adw3345@ultb


 My sister asked me to set up the creche over the holidays to properly
set the mood for the upcoming holiday celebrations.

 "What's a creche?" I asked, thinking it was some kind of disease like
crabs. She explained with exasperation in her manner to me.

 "Oh yeah" I said.

 "It's in the attic. Go get it."

 I didn't find the creche in the attic, but I found all my old Star Wars
toys. Good enough.

 So I set it up next to the door:

                            THE STAR WARS CRECHE


Wise Man #1:   Darth Vader
Wise Man #2:   Obi Wan Kenobi
Wise Man #3:   Yoda

Camel #1 and #2: Luke Skywalker's Landspeeder (Obi and Yoda)
Camel #3: Banthu Beast

Sheepherders: Sandpeople and Jawas
Sheep: Stormtroopers (3) on all fours

Gifts for Jesus: A lightsabre and two blasters

Angels: Boba Fett (Suspended with his rocket pack thingy), Shock Troop
        Stormtrooper (because of the white cape).

The guiding star: TIE Fighter

Virgin Mary: Princess Leia
Virgin Joseph: Han Solo

Baby Jesus: R2D2


 My sister didn't find it funny. "You shouldn't make fun of Jesus," she
admonished, "he died for all of our sins!" So I put R2D2 and pals away and
ate all the Christmas cookies she was baking.



                                                        Derrick

the FORCE will kick GOD's butt any day
-- 
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
- Derrick Williams   Rochester Institute of Technology | Insert snappy  -
- adw3345@ultb.isc.rit.edu     Computer Science        | quotation here -
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: lebeld@JSP.UMontreal.CA (David Lebel)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.starwars
Subject: Re: trivia buffs... :-)
Date: 22 Dec 92 02:52:31 GMT
Organization: Universite de Montreal -- Montreal, PQ, Canada

In article <BzIuLr.Cn7@nic.umass.edu> HDW@UCSVAX.UCS.UMASS.EDU (H D WALDEN) writes:

>	Piece 'o cake--one that I immediately think of is the tracter(sp?) beam
>in ANH, when Ben turns the power off.
>-dave

	You've got one... 8-]

-- 
 David Lebel              | C-3PO: Sir, the possibility of successfully |
 Universite de Montreal   |        navigating an asteroid field is     <o>
 lebeld@JSP.UMontreal.CA  |        approximately 3720 to 1.             |  Star
 (514) 343-6532 ext 44644 | HAN:   Never tell me the odds!             < \ Wars
From: ted4646@rigel.tamu.edu (cartoon boy)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.starwars
Subject: Re: SWRPG:  Tech drawings of SD?
Date: 26 Dec 1992 14:16 CST
Organization: Texas A&M University, Academic Computing Services
Distribution: world
NNTP-Posting-Host: rigel.tamu.edu
Keywords: starwars
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41    

In article <1992Dec21.114204.10118@fy.chalmers.se>, f92bjsa@fy.chalmers.se (Bjorn Sandberg) writes...
>	Hi all Star Wars fans!

hello.

>	This might not really fit into this newsgroup, but it's the closest
>I could get. I am designing a mini-campaign for the Star Wars RPG, where one
>part is set aboard a Star Destroyer. The problem is that I haven't found any
>technical drawings of any SD:s. Quite strange, don't you think?

>"Never tell me the odds!"		-- BJORN

you may want to check out the module Starfall.  the module plot is an escape
off of a Victory Class Star Destroyer.  one of the goodies included with the 
module is a color cross section of a VSD, with floor plans of the bridge,
one of the numerous bottomless shafts that seem to be commonplace in imperial
design, a hanger bay cross section.  No real floor plans (and not really 
detailed, either), but it does illustrate the area layout of a VSD (just make 
it larger for an ISD.

as for the SWRPG postings, i was around when this newsgroup was first started
and the charter did say that this was an acceptable place for SWRPG postings.
however, due to a low volume of SWRPG posts (and a high volume of "I saw Bigg's
tennis shoe in the asteroid field next to the potato" postings), i left for
a while.  hello again.


just a few random thoughts from thomas, aka ted4646@rigel.tamu.edu

Stupid things to say in the Star Wars Universe:
#4:  "Hey guys, let's follow the _Falcon_ into that asteroid field!"


Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.starwars
From: Ray.Chramega <Ray.Chramega@mixcom.mixcom.com>
Subject: Greedo in 90210... Was Re: Greedo's Ghost in ROTJ?!?
Organization: Milwaukee Internet Xchange BBS, Milwaukee, WI U.S.A.
Distribution: usa
Date: Mon, 21 Dec 1992 20:28:57 GMT


   Greedo is also in the 1991 halloween episode of Beverly Hills 90210.
First the costume is hanging in a costume shop and later you'll see him
again and again in the background at a halloween party everyone attends.


-- 


------------------------------------------------------------------------------
                Email: chramega@mixcom.COM or mmwwmm@mixcom.COM
From: warden@midnite.pinetree.org (Tim Warden)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.starwars
Subject: Re: Luke and Leia confusion
Date: Tue, 29 Dec 92 13:17:33 EST
Organization: Midnite Mania Information Services

uscream@mcl.ucsb.edu (Screamin' Diane d.) writes:

> It seems to me that after watching the three SW films recently that Luke
> and Leia were not intended to be brother and sister.  It just doesn't
> fit with the looks that they gave each other in ANH and the competition
> between Han and Luke.
 
I disagree.  If you will recall, from the beginning Lea and Han have 
always seemed to have this Love - Hate relationship going.  Arguing and 
bickering like veteran lovers...<Grin>.  Whereas the relationship between 
Luke and Lea has always been more of a supportive nature...
 
--
Tim

--
  Internet: warden@midnite.pinetree.org       |
  UUCP:  ...!pinetree!midnite!warden          |  Merry Christmas all!
  Fidonet: 1:163/313      TRFN: 100:649/25    |
  Midnite Mania BBS - Ottawa, Ontario, Canada - +1 613 567 5146 - 2400 BPS
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.starwars
From: bstdenis@mailbox.fwrdc.rtsg.mot.com (Brian St. Denis)
Subject: Re: Another error?
Organization: Fort Worth Research and Development Center, Motorola, Inc.
Date: Thu, 31 Dec 1992 20:43:45 GMT

I can't tell, but it sounds like some people think that Darth with
a green (ok, atleast not red) light saber is, in some strange way,
not an error.  It is a MAJOR error.  Spielberg (sp) is in charge of
the whole movie production and this slipped through.  Now, what type of
error is it?  Even if it is an FX error, it is still there and should not be.

The reason that this is an error worth talking about, unlike the orange beneath
the land speeder, is because this one could have a particular meaning.  The
colors of the light sabers are definitely indicitave of the side of the force
the user is on.  This mistake makes it look like Darth is using a light saber
that the "good guys" would use.  Or, maybe he picked up Ben's?  (Insert smiley.)
Anyway, it is totally inconsistent with the entire good-side bad-side thing and
that is why it is worth pointing out.  I consider it kind of like a trivial
fact that is fun knowing so you can say to your friends (who haven't seen SW as
much as you) "Who can tell me the time when Darth used a non-red light saber?"

Along the same lines, when C-3PO says "I'm not good at telling stories...",
and then, two movies later, is shown being an excellent story teller, this is
also worth talking about for the same reason.  The reason is that this
error/contradiction is a point of interest.  I would not be unhappy if I (or
anyone else) wrote 6-9 hours of movie and only contradicted myself a few (or
less), not very significant, times.

Finally, these errors do not affect the plot at all.  Just because the light
saber is green doesn't mean that Darth was on the good side for that scene.
And, when we see that 3PO is a great story teller, it doesn't mean that he
has learned anything or that he is more human, just that his character SHOULD
be a GREAT story teller.  I don't think we should try to learn anything about
SW from this but maybe learn about making movies.  Period.

I am kinda supprised that when I first mentioned these that people did not say,
"Ya, that is kinda funny that Spielberg did that.  I especially like the one
where..."

Some of those non-cannon made up plot explanations on 3PO's character development
were hilarious.  Too bad they were serious.

-- 

---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Brian St. Denis                       | "Will administer for food."   -JLRU
Computer/Network Administration       | e-mail: bstdenis@fwrdc.rtsg.mot.com
Fort Worth Research and Design Center | phone:               (817) 232-6129
Motorola Inc.                         | digital pager:       (214) 835-0916
From: tchua@soda.berkeley.edu (Terence Chua)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.starwars
Subject: Re: BOOKS ON CD_ROM !!!!?????
Date: 23 Dec 92 06:55:30
Organization: Dept of Law, QMW College, U of London
NNTP-Posting-Host: soda.berkeley.edu
In-reply-to: gt1158@terapin.com's message of 23 Dec 92 00:27:15 PST

Re: DV's mask...

When he removed it in TESB, I recall he was in some kind of chamber. Perhaps
that kept him alive? For the most part, I would assume that the wounds he
sustained in that now-legendary battle we've never seen between him and Ben
Kenobi were so severe that he *had* to keep that cyborg armour on if he
didn't have any other life-support on hand...

Re: open page

I apologise if the following is considered to be wasting bandwidth, but I'm
getting desperate. I know he reads this newsgroup so this is an open call for
Andy Logam-Tan of NTU, Singapore (alias bh7030307@v9000.ntu.ac.sg) to get in
touch with me. E-mail, snail mail, phone, jungle drums, I don't care. I
want that report of yours, Logam!!!

----------
Terence Chua
Snail-mail: 22 Courcy Road, Hornsey, London N8 0QH
Telephone: (044) 081-888-1210
E-mail: TL2010@qmw.ac.uk or T.Chua@qmw.ac.uk or tchua@soda.berkeley.edu
From: greenie@drycas.club.cc.cmu.edu
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.starwars
Subject: Re: New Star Wars Movies
Date: 25 Dec 92 21:35:10 -0500
Organization: Carnegie Mellon Computer Club

In article <ll36484@pro-smof.cts.com>, wixer!cactus.org!wixer!pro-smof.cts.com!rfletcher@cactus.org (Robert Fletcher) writes:
>   You must have missed the one message that was from some guy, who knows a
> person, who is working on the sound stage, where Star Wars is now being
> filmed. ( not too clear...uh )

Which Star Wars?  Is that fatso Mark Hamil in it?  (No offense to Mark, but
he's starting to look like Scotty :-)

Andy, green@ids.net