HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: bb11807@medtronic.COM (Brian A. Blow)
Subject: Re: Whatcha get for Christmas?
Organization: Medtronic, Inc.
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1 PL8]
Date: Mon, 28 Dec 1992 13:49:32 GMT

A long sleeve jersey, full fingered gloves, and a helmet liner--
all from REI.  Good stuff for snow biking!


Brian Blow                         brian.blow@medtronic.com
Medtronic, Inc.                    (612) 574-4030
Minneapolis, MN
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.soc
From: Michel Goudeseune <marcelg@zooid.guild.org>
Subject: aero bar computer mount (was: Re: Whatcha get for Christmas?) 
Organization: ZOOiD BBS
Date: Tue, 29 Dec 1992 07:34:33 GMT

jsweeney@geppetto.encore.com (Joe Sweeney) writes:
>...Oh joy!  I got a Vetta HR1000 and Profile AirStryke (sp?) aerobars...
>I'll post a report on both.  I've installed the HR1000 as an addition
>to my Cat Eye Micro.  Haven't installed the bars yet since they fit
>so close to the stem and leave no computer mounting spot.  

I have a set of Profile AirWave bars on my bike, and came up with a novel
solution to the computer problem.  I took a 1-inch diameter wood dowel, cut to
the distance between the narrow part of the aero bars.  File out the ends of
the dowel so that it fits snugly between the parallel part of the aero bars.
This gives you a mounting place for the computer, about 1 inch in front of the
handlebar stem.  In my case, it fits the (centered) mount of the Vetta C-20
perfectly.

I hope the description made sense.  If not, send me email and I'll make a
better effort to explain it.

Michel Goudeseune
marcelg@zooid.guild.org
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.soc
From: gsurbeck@eng.umd.edu (Gregory D. Surbeck)
Subject: Re: Whatcha get for Christmas?
Date: Sun, 27 Dec 92 05:07:00 GMT
Organization: Project GLUE, University of Maryland, College Park

In article <Bzvv1F.FFC@cs.uiuc.edu> tthiel@cs.uiuc.edu (Terry Thiel) writes:
>I'll start...a Pearl Izumi long sleeve Thermasof jersey and a matching
>jacket.
>-Terry

For Hanukah: full-finger cycling gloves, back-up pair of brake pads,
vistalite ultimate safety light, turbo saddle, neoprene socks (I seem
to be the only person in the world to get cold feet in >40F weather
:-), bike computer (ACT, I like it)

	Have a good new year!
	-Greg

Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.soc
From: marcs@slc.com (Marc San Soucie)
Subject: Re: new year's resolutions
Organization: Servio Corp, Beaverton Oregon, US
Distribution: na
Date: Thu, 31 Dec 1992 22:51:32 GMT

Frank Krygowski (ae505@yfn.ysu.edu) writes:

> Marc San Soucie seems to prefer a wide shoulder separated by a 
> white line.  I don't, BECAUSE the white line keeps cars off.

> At least around here, there's so much gravel, chips of glass &
> other trash over that line, that I can't ride there for fear of
> flats.  If the lane is wide to the left of the line (or if there
> is no line) some of the cars will randomly sweep off the trash.

A beneficial side-effect of poor road design doesn't make it good road 
design. Trash should be swept off the road by the local road crew. You can 
help make that happen by persistently reporting dirty bicycle lanes and 
shoulders, and getting your cycling friends to do the same.

Sometimes there's a real benefit to free street sweeping by cars, but the 
risks associated with it seem too great.


> When I'm riding there, they keep further left - they don't run
> into me.  (I like to assume a cyclist is as much to be avoided
> as a white line.)

Certainly, but motorists are not in the habit of seeing cyclists, while
seeing white lines has been ingrained into the collective motoring 
subconscious. I'd rather gamble on good instincts than good sense.

    Marc San Soucie
    Portland, Oregon
    marcs@slc.com
From: Howard.Gerber@f88.n106.z1.fidonet.org (Howard Gerber)
Sender: Jpunix@urchin.fidonet.org
From: jsweeney@geppetto.encore.com (Joe Sweeney)
Subject: Re: Whatcha get for Christmas?
Organization: Encore Computer Corp.
Date: Tue, 29 Dec 1992 21:06:11 GMT

...so, since there are a lot of nice new bike equipment out there
in netland, will everyone consider a short review of their new
toys?

I'll be posting a short report on my new Vetta HR1000 later this
week...

Later,
Joe


-- 
JOE SWEENEY (jsweeney@encore.com) ENCORE COMPUTER CORP.; MELBOURNE, FLORIDA
My postings/letters are flame proof.  If you've taken offense, you may have
misunderstood me.  If you differ with me, that's just fine and your response
is welcome.  ****Please place :-) at all locations you feel necessary.****
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.soc
From: gsurbeck@eng.umd.edu (Gregory D. Surbeck)
Subject: new year's resolutions
Date: Tue, 29 Dec 92 04:49:21 GMT
Organization: Project GLUE, University of Maryland, College Park

Terry's post a few days ago got my mind on the subject.
Does anyone want to share their cycling resolutions for the new year?
Does anyone want to report resolutions for 1992 that succeeded (like
the Century-a-Month challenge)?  That failed?

Have a happy new year.

I hope everyone in the mid-Atlantic got home okay today.  Tomorrow
it's "just" supposed to be foggy and wet.  I have a lot of respect for
bike commuters.

BTW, the absolute 2 best arguments I have heard against bikeways:
(1) There isn't enough money to fund every bike-related project so
let's fund the best ones (i.e. road improvement with a focus on
cyclists)
(2) Non-cyclists really do seem to feel that cyclists belong on the
nearest bikeway, not the roads.  That one really surprised me, but it
makes sense.

My personal favorite solution:  planned, unmarked, wide right lanes.
What's wrong with them (to be read with the same tone of voice as my
what's wrong with bikeways question -- neutral)?  Thanx for the
information.

Happy, healthy new year to all!

Greg 
gsurbeck@eng.umd.edu
From: woycke@smiley.mitre.org (Daniel Woycke)
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.soc
Subject: Re: Bike paths
Date: 23 Dec 92 16:10:29 GMT
Organization: The MITRE Corporation, McLean, VA

I guess as a part time bike commuter I'd like to put my $0.02 in on
this topic. I disagree that bike-paths and multiuse paths are mutually
exclusive.  The Washington and Old Dominion Trail in Northern VA is
most certainly a mixed use trail. I use it for 11/15ths of my commute.
I certainly cuts time off of my ride.  It follows a former rail
right-of-way and is relatively flat compared to the local streets. It
also has less traffic during rush hours than the roads that I would
use (hey, all of those people commuting are not out walking, gee).  I
admit that on nice weekends in the summer it is hard to go racing
speeds down the trail due to all of the recreational users, but hey,
they are on bikes for a change.  Since the road system in Northern VA
is poorly laid out there are few (if annoyingly many) street
crossings, especially in the outlying area of the trail. The trail is
well maintained and frequently cleaned (since they don't really plow
the streets, why would they plow a bike trail?).  I guess I am lucky.

A car is very convenient and cool to be able to drive when you are 16.
You've been able to ride your bike for a long time, but, man, a CAR!
Sure, you have more rules to obey, but it gets you there quicker.
Bicycles are never going to have that sense of privilege that cars
initially have, especially for adolescents.  I think bicycle education
would be a good thing, and drivers ed is certainly a good thing.
People are not motivated to get out there and learn effective cycling
because they don't NEED to.  I also never want to advocate licensing
cyclists. I think we need to realize that there is room for parkways
and highways.  I think bike trails are a good answer for recreational
users and commuters.  I think rules should be enforced on the road,
and perhaps a licensing process should be put in place for extensive
road use of bicycles.  I don't want any flames here, but everyone who
uses the road should be forced to know the rules of the road. I am
also in favor retesting automobile drivers every few years. 

I think bike commuting will be an appropriate answer for a lot more
people in the coming years, and making it attractive is important.  I
think it is appropriate to start commuting by a bike trail until you
feel confident and have the abilities to commute on the road.

Thank You,

Daniel W. Woycke             |"I went out drinking with Thomas 
Information Engineer (c) 1992|Paine..." -- Billy Bragg
The MITRE Corporation	     |"But I am still thirsty..."
7525 Colshire Drive (MS Z213)|-- Arrested Development
McLean, VA   22102           |These opinions are mine and are not
woycke@smiley.mitre.org      |and will not be held by anyone else.
From: ncherry@cbnewsg.cb.att.com (neil j.cherry)
Subject: Re: Politics of Cycling Speed
Organization: AT&T
Distribution: na
Date: Mon, 21 Dec 1992 15:14:47 GMT

In article <724655546.AA05468@urchin.fidonet.org> Howard.Gerber@f88.n106.z1.fidonet.org (Howard Gerber) writes:
>Neil J. Cherry <ncherry@cbnewsg.cb.att.com> writes:
> NJ> But now I have a question on left hand turns.
>
> Notice that in each case I say to first "look back." This is no
>accident!
> Putting your hand out to signal does not convey any magical properties
>that
> suddenly make the cars go away. Often, just the act of turning your
>head to
> look at the driver of the car behind you will be enough to convince
>that
> driver to let you get into the next lane. You look back to make sure it
>is
> either safe to move or it would be much safer to wait.
>

I actually ride my bike better than I drive (sorry if I convayed the wrong
message.) Also the 35 mph is the best I can expect at all out and I can't keep
it up for a long period. Basically I'm doing what your saying, just wanted to
find out if there was anything more I can do. That is merge when its safe and
wait if you can't merge. I also bought the Effective Cyclinig book and I've
glanced through it. I've found a few answers to questions I've had and I now
have a better understanding for John Forester's positions on various subjects.
Thanks to all who have responded, I'm learning alot.

NJC

Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.soc
From: ae505@yfn.ysu.edu (Frank Krygowski)
Subject: Re: new year's resolutions
Organization: Youngstown State University/Youngstown Free-Net
Date: Thu, 31 Dec 1992 16:45:58 GMT


Mark San Soucie seems to prefer a wide shoulder separated by a 
white line.  I don't, BECAUSE the white line keeps cars off.

At least around here, there's so much gravel, chips of glass &
other trash over that line, that I can't ride there for fear of
flats.  If the lane is wide to the left of the line (or if there
is no line) some of the cars will randomly sweep off the trash.

When I'm riding there, they keep further left - they don't run
into me.  (I like to assume a cyclist is as much to be avoided
as a white line.)            Frank Krygowski  ae505@yfn.ysu.edu
From: ccfa001@utxvms.cc.utexas.edu
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.soc
Subject: Re: Bikes unwanted at U-Michigan (or U.Texas!)
Date: 21 Dec 92 14:30:05 CST
Organization: University of Texas @ Austin
NNTP-Posting-Host: maroon.cc.utexas.edu

In article <92348.155128IDSPG@ASUACAD.BITNET>, SEAN P. GARRETT <IDSPG@ASUACAD.BITNET> writes:
>            ...     It however is not a total ban, you can
> ride but if you get caught it will cost you 18 bucks.  The bike cops are very
> popular here and the collegiate newspaper is often filled with complaints.
>    I hope this clears things up for you.  When I posted originaly I considered
> it a ban and reflecting still do.
> 
> Sean Garrett
-- 
There has been a similar "crackdown" here on the University of Texas at Austin
campus.  Having been a student here for 7 years, and a staff member for
12, I've noticed that these "crackdowns" generally occur whenever someone
complains about having to dodge reckless bicyclers on sidewalks.  The official
restriction here against riding on sidewalks has been on the books for a 
long time, but is only occasionally enforced.  I have noted that now that
most of the students have left for the holidays, that new traffic signs are
being put on the sidewalks banning cyclists ... guess they're getting more
serious.

I do find this ironical for U.T., having had to dodge university service
vehicles, fork-lifts, garbage trucks, and other such moto-vehicles which
drive around on the campus sidewalks every day.  Interestingly enough,
every sidewalk built on this campus over the last 15 to 20 years seems
to be just wide enough to accomodate service trucks.  I'm just waiting
for the first "U.T. truck hits bicyclist on sidewalk" headline ... you can
rest assured that the cyclist would get the blame.:-\
-
Curt Vaughan
Email: ccfa001@utxvms.cc.utexas.edu
From: willmann@seismo.CSS.GOV (Raymond Willemann)
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.soc
Subject: Re: new year's resolutions
Date: 31 Dec 92 14:34:22 GMT
Organization: Center for Seismic Studies, Arlington, VA


In article <725733330.AA08560@urchin.fidonet.org>, Howard.Gerber@f88.n106.z1.fidonet.org (Howard Gerber) writes:
|> Gregory D. Surbeck  <gsurbeck@eng.umd.edu> writes:
|> 
|>  GDS> My personal favorite solution:  planned, unmarked, wide right lanes.
|>  GDS> What's wrong with them (to be read with the same tone of voice as my
|>  GDS> what's wrong with bikeways question -- neutral)?
|> 
|> There's nothing wrong with building such roads. They're probably the
|> safest place for cyclists to ride. Many rural highways in Texas are of
|> that type. Wider outside lanes have the advantage that road surface lasts
|> longer, since motorists have less tendency to drive off the edge of the 
|> paved surface.

I had the impression that the wide shoulders on 2-lane rural
highways in Texas were because of the startling (to a New York
native) practice of pulling onto the shoulder to let faster cars
pass.  This makes sense for tractors, but in 3 years I never got
used to cars traveling 55 mph pulling aside to let me by.  It was
very unnerving for me to drive on the shoulder at 60 mph to let
even faster cars pass.  But this was the local custom and I
learned to do it, since the alternative was to be dangerously
tailgated because of my discourteous behavior.  (I never could
bring myself to pull aside at night, convinced that I would run
off a narrow bridge over a creek, into a disabled car, or perhaps
even into a cyclist.)  

In any event, this road design is certainly better for cyclists
than the typical design in Maryland, where shoulders are usually
gravel or nonexistent.  Would the same longevity argument apply
in northern states, where frost wedging takes a heavier toll?
From: "Michael Smith" <p00004@psilink.com>
Subject: Re: Bike paths (FROM Re: Cycling and Environmentalism)
Organization: Performance Systems Int'l
Date: Mon, 28 Dec 1992 19:20:11 GMT
X-Mailer: PSILink-DOS (3.3)

>DATE:   Sun, 27 Dec 1992 20:00:25 GMT
>FROM:   Harry Phinney <harry@cv.hp.com>
>
>p00004@psilink.com ("Michael Smith") writes:
>: Also, now that I think of it, wouldn't a *love* of cars be more likekly 
>: to bias one's thinking about what's good for cyclists than hatred would 
>: do?
>
>How so?[....]  In what way do you think my love of cars
>biases my thinking about what is good for cyclists?

Dunno. What do you think is good for cyclists?

But seriously, folks...

Did you see the beginning of this exchange? Somebody (I forget who) was 
attempting to dismiss some point by saying that other writers and I just 
"hate cars." After I recovered from this crushing refutation, it 
occurred to me that a hatred of cars would have, at best, a kind of 
vague, Gestaltish influence on one's thinking about the "good of 
cyclists" (John Forester went into this possibility in more detail in an 
earlier post). But I could easily envision a *love* of cars having 
a more direct effect, since (let's face it) there seems to be something 
structural at work that makes a great many motorists quite resentful of 
cyclists. 

Perhaps this is not the case where you live, and if so I 
congratulate you on your good fortune. I'm not so lucky. Indeed, I've 
been thinking about organizing some motorist pathology tours of my area 
-- the way xviii s. Londoners used to visit Bedlam to laugh at the 
inmates. Good clean fun.

--Michael Smith
  
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.soc
From: harry@cv.hp.com (Harry Phinney)
Subject: Re: Bike paths (FROM Re: Cycling and Environmentalism)
Organization: Hewlett-Packard Company, Corvallis, Oregon USA
X-Newsreader: Tin 1.1 PL4
Date: Sun, 27 Dec 1992 20:00:25 GMT

p00004@psilink.com ("Michael Smith") writes:
: Also, now that I think of it, wouldn't a *love* of cars be more likekly 
: to bias one's thinking about what's good for cyclists than hatred would 
: do?

How so?  I've been a competitive bicycle racer for 20 years, having won
my first district championship in 1974, and my latest in 1991.  This has
entailed riding many, many miles on the road.  I also own 6 cars
including a Jaguar, an Austin Mini Cooper S, a Porsche 912, and a
Austin-Healey frog-eye Sprite.  In what way do you think my love of cars
biases my thinking about what is good for cyclists?

Harry Phinney   harry@hp-pcd.cv.hp.com
From: les@SAIL.Stanford.edu (Les Earnest)
Subject: Re: Bike paths
Reply-To: les@cs.stanford.edu
Organization: Computer Science Department, Stanford University
	<1992Dec19.153806.2911@eng.umd.edu>
	<1992Dec20.010813.14801@CSD-NewsHost.Stanford.EDU>
	<1992Dec21.204421.20270@adobe.com>
Date: Tue, 22 Dec 1992 03:03:19 GMT

Responding to my indictment of bike paths, John Ciccarelli agrees with
many of the points but says:
   Methinks you exaggerate.  While I often reduce speed on off-street paths 
   and shortcuts, the distance saved or traffic avoided often makes them 
   attractive.  Your mileage may vary.  [.  .  .]

Yes, I exaggerated, but only a little.  I'm actually a closet bike
path rider because there is one that saves me about a mile on my
commute to Stanford.  However, I would much prefer a road along the
same route for the reasons I have stated.

Also, on my annual ride down the California coast, I ride the beach
bike paths around Los Angeles because the scenery there on a warm day
is so good!  8-)  In fact, I occasionally miss the zigzags and go off
into the sand, which is another hazard of some bike paths that I
neglected to enumerate.

   Having said all this, I still put in the vast majority of my mileage
   on-street, and feel that money is usually better spent for on-street 
   improvements, starting with decent pavement and adequate lanewidth.

Absolutely right.
--
Les Earnest           Phone:  415 941-3984    Fax: 415 941-3934
Internet: Les@cs.Stanford.edu              USMail: 12769 Dianne Drive
UUCP: . . . decwrl!cs.Stanford.edu!Les         Los Altos Hills, CA 94022
From: pershng@watson.ibm.com (John A. Pershing Jr.)
Date: Mon, 21 Dec 92 09:47:34 EST
cc: gsurbeck@eng.umd.edu
Subject:  Bike paths (FROM Re: Cycling and Environmentalism)
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.soc

I'm sure that John Forester will address the basic safety issues better
than I can; however, from a practical viewpoint, you will find that the
"bikes only" rule will not be followed -- the bikepath (especially a
nice, 12-foot-wide one) will immediately be overrun with pedestrians
(many with dogs on leashes), roller skaters, skateboarders, and
probably mo-peds and other small motorbikes.  Even if, for some strange
reason, you find *only* bicyclists on the path one day, you will find
family groups (including very small children on trikes), hacks and
tyros who can barely stay upright on the bike, with many people
ignoring the center line, weaving back and forth, etc.

When I lived in Boston in the '70s, they would close off a major
parkway (Memorial Drive) on Sundays for the exclusive use of cyclists.
You think 12 feet is wide?  This was a 4-lane parkway!  (Admittedly,
these were narrow lanes -- but there were still 4 of them).  These
"Bike Sundays" were one of the most dangerous situations I encountered
in 10 years of riding in and around Boston (this is irrespective of the
occasional intersection with cross-traffic, which were typically
swarming with police (1) to keep cars on the cross roads from running
the red light, since the main road had "only" bicyclists, and (2) to
keep the riff-raff (bikes, trikes, pedestrians, roller skaters,
skateboards, etc.) on the parkway from running *their* red light (after
all, these people were already ignoring every other rule of the
road!)).

Now I live in Westchester County and, guess what?  On Sundays in the
Summer they close the Bronx River Parkway for the exclusive use of
bicyclists.  The only "improvements" from Memorial Drive is that (1)
most of the intersections on the BRP are underpasses (there is only one
at-grade intersection in the section that is closed for bicyclists),
and (2) the BRP is a divided highway so that, for the most part, all of
the people are going the same direction.  Everything else is the
essentially the same:  an intermixture of would-be racers trying to
ride as fast as possible, family groups including 5-year-olds on
tricycles, pedestrians, roller skaters, people who can barely balance
on a bike, etc.

Oh... one more practical problem with bike paths:  the total lack of
maintenance.  Within a few months, the path will be littered with
broken glass and other trash.  If you get snow there, I doubt that the
bike paths will get plowed.  After a few years, it will develop cracks
and potholes that will not be repaired.  At least, this has been my
observation of bike paths that I have known (and avoided).

      John Pershing                             pershng @ watson.ibm.com
      IBM Research, Yorktown Heights, NY        PERSHNG at YKTVMH.BITNET
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.soc
From: richard@pegasus.com (Richard Foulk)
Subject: Re: Politics of Cycling Speed
Organization: Pegasus,  Honolulu
Date: Mon, 21 Dec 92 14:48:47 GMT

>I cannot pretend to imagine the attitude of motorists in the US, but by my 
>reckoning, the chances of being hit from behind are the lowest of all possible
>bicycle accidents(opening doors being the worst).
>

Sounds like someone is riding too close to parked cars ...


-- 
Richard Foulk		richard@pegasus.com
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.soc
From: les@SAIL.Stanford.edu (Les Earnest)
Subject: Re: Cycling and Environmentalism
Reply-To: les@cs.stanford.edu
Organization: Computer Science Department, Stanford University
Date: Mon, 21 Dec 1992 22:56:40 GMT

Ed Ravin writes:
   [.  .  .]
   Let's start naming names and not stereotyping.  I'd be upset about those
   kind of folks too, like the executive director of a local development
   corporation in the Bronx who wants to turn a railroad right-of-way into a
   parking lot rather than a bikeway.  But she's not an environmentalist,
   and I wouldn't sully the word by calling her one.

Why not convert it to something more useful: a road?  If there is some
reason why that won't work, then a pedestrian path or a parking lot
sound to me like better uses for that land.
--
Les Earnest           Phone:  415 941-3984    Fax: 415 941-3934
Internet: Les@cs.Stanford.edu              USMail: 12769 Dianne Drive
UUCP: . . . decwrl!cs.Stanford.edu!Les         Los Altos Hills, CA 94022
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.soc
From: drt@pdh.com (Doug R. Thomas)
Subject: Boise, Idaho
Reply-To: drt@pdh.com
Organization: PDH, Inc.
Date: Mon, 28 Dec 1992 02:06:04 GMT



Hello out there!

I'm a native Californian of the San Francisco Bay Area who has recently  
transplanted to Boise, Id.  

Unfortunately,  I have not been able to hook up with anyone who knows the  
Boise area well.  While I'm sure that there are probably plenty of nice  
areas to ride, all I've been able to find is dry desert and potato fields.

Water is a problem.  In the Bay Area I could always find a place to refuel  
but in Idaho, I get the feeling that I need to carry a 5 gallon water  
bottle on the bike rack.

Just kiddding!  However, the point I wish to make is that we (my wife and  
I ) are looking for couples or ? to bike, backpack, or just enjoy the  
outdoors with.

We are 48 and 49, reasonably fit, and willing to push ourselves.  If  
anyone out there knows of good riding routes, hiking trails, or mountain  
bike trails in the immediate Boise area or would like to meet us and  
introduce us to the area,  please respond.

Happy New Year!