HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: mhi@wet.UUCP (Philip E. Murphy)
Newsgroups: ca.politics
Subject: Re: Gay/Lesbian Equal Rights Needed
Date: 12 Dec 92 16:37:52 GMT
Organization: Wetware Diversions, San Francisco

Again Clayton you fail to realize that aside from research statistics, even
the people on soc.motss are not representative of society.  You just do not
know enough gays to make statements about promiscuity.  And obviously you
do not know about strait behaviour either.   Hetero aids is picking up 
without benefit of needles or blood passage.  Don't forget about all the 
bi-sexual males out there.  But please do not use soc.motss at a window to
reality - that window looks out on an inner courtyard.  Use society, talk to
people and be honest.  You will find some people with many multiple partners,
but dont forget that they are being honest because of the severness of the
disease or the chance of disease.  Straight people do not always tell the truth
especially if they are in a relationship.

The disease is here and everyone is scared.  It is a retro-virus (shifting). 
It was not caused by gays.  They were the first group to get publicity for
it.  Look at Africa and South America - there is the culprint.  Clayton - 
you are fighting the wrong people.  It is always a subset of the people you
hurl epitets at.  Parade organizers and people on soc.motss are a subset.
Do not judge by this sample.

Phil Murphy

-- 

Phil Murphy                                          (415) 285-2595 voice 
P.O. Box 460084 San Francisco,CA 94146-0084          (415) 285-8213 fax 
Xref: sparky ca.politics:10391 talk.politics.misc:64538
From: jyc@leo.Stanford.EDU (Jon Corelis)
Subject: Re: Message Clutter
Organization: DSO, Stanford University
Date: 13 Dec 92 20:13:42 GMT

Ron.Landers@f851.n102.z1.fidonet.org (Ron Landers) writes:

>        I'm a new user, and this BBS program is also new to me.  One
>particular thing I've noticed that I don't like is the amount of clutter the
>posts contain.  I assume that part of this "problem" is unavoidable, with
>respect to the initial NET information that apparently appears in every
>message, regardless.

>        However, one thing I've noticed that IS under the control of users
>is the practice of quoting from the post one is responding to.  It seems
>that virtually EVERY post contains way too much quoting.  For example, I've
>seen countless messages where the user quotes a long passage from the
>original post,followed by their ONE LINE comment.  Is this really
>necessary?

>        To exaggerate my point.  It's like quoting an entire chapter of "War
>and Peace," and at the end of the passage, typing in a line that says: "I
>really like this chapter..."  Couldn't you just say; "I really liked Chapter
>Seven of War and Peace," and spare us the entire chapter?

>        For a good majority of posts on this net, it seems that if you
>SUBTRACTED OUT the lead-in NET stuff, and SUBTRACTED OUT the lengthy TAG
>LINES,and also SUBTRACTED OUT the QUOTES from the original post, what you
>would be left with is a few lines of actual commentary!

>        When I first logged on here and began reading the posts, it seemed
>like there were dozens and dozens of posts, that ALL quoted major sections
>of the same ORIGINAL POST, and we're talking a screen full or two.  So, I
>had to wade through the same message over and over and over again, as quoted
>by all the responders to that post.  This is ridiculous.

>        In my opinion, the feature which allows you to "grab" partial or
>entire quotes from an original message is mostly a CRUTCH.  It comes in
>handy sometimes, but some of you seem to be ABUSING the advantage, to a
>point which seems to smack of intellectual LAZINESS.

>        Well, that's my two cents' worth...

   I agree.
Newsgroups: ca.politics,talk.politics.misc
From: gsh7w@fermi.clas.Virginia.EDU (Greg Hennessy)
Subject: Re: Gay/Lesbian Equal Rights Needed
Organization: University of Virginia
Date: Thu, 17 Dec 1992 00:43:24 GMT

In article <13645@optilink.COM> cramer@optilink.COM (Clayton Cramer) writes:
#So why are so few straights getting AIDS, except through contact with
#prostitutes and IV drug abusers?

Oh really?

From the CDC statistics, the number of heterosexuals males AIDS cases
for the year ending Oct 1991 is 1,215, increasing to 1587 for the year
ending Oct 1992, a 30 percent increase. The number of AIDS cases
amount homosexual men increased 0.8 percent, while the number of cases
from IV drug users increased 2 percent. 

Amoung women, the number of cases for heterosexuals increased from
1987 to 2435, a 22 percent increase, while number from IV drug use
increased 2 percent.

Do you consider 4000 *NEW* AIDS cases amoung heterosexuals to be "a
few"? 


--
-Greg Hennessy, University of Virginia
 USPS Mail:     Astronomy Department, Charlottesville, VA 22903-2475 USA
 Internet:      gsh7w@virginia.edu  
 UUCP:		...!uunet!virginia!gsh7w
Xref: sparky ca.politics:10455 talk.politics.misc:64950
From: pgr@crhc.uiuc.edu (Paul Ryan)
Newsgroups: ca.politics,talk.politics.misc
Subject: Re: Gay/Lesbian Equal Rights Needed
Date: 20 Dec 1992 02:15:45 -0600
Organization: Center for Reliable and High-Performance Computing, University of Illinois at Urbana-Champaign
NNTP-Posting-Host: copland.crhc.uiuc.edu

I write:
> Prejudiced, stereotyped, hatred-based bullshit.

Clayton Cramer writes:
>Shall I post some examples from soc.motss?  

I stipulate that you are capable of finding some post in soc.motss that
will offend anyone.  In fact, you are known to collect such posts.

Likewise, all racists can find a black rapist, all anti-semites can
find a rich, stingy Jew, and all sexists can find a stupid woman to
use as an example to prop up their stereotypes and biases.

Such examples do not prove your prejudices, they simply illustrate them.

As anyone who reads soc.motss knows, the gay community on usenet and in
the real world is a tremendously diverse cross section of humanity.  If
you bothered to listen to us instead of skimming for tidbits of outrageous
sexuality to store away and prop up your prejudices, you would begin to
understand how feeble your prejudices are.

Don't be a pawn for a bigot!  If you feel the need to judge me, come over
to soc.motss and do it yourself.  If you've been basing your opinions on
Clayton's selective quotations, you will be quite surprised.

Paul

-- 
Paul Ryan                  (pgr@crhc.uiuc.edu)     1308 West Main St.
Center for Reliable High-Performance Computing     Urbana, IL 61801
University of Illinois at Urbana-Champaign         (217) 244-7179
Newsgroups: ca.politics,ba.politics
From: hal@netcom.com (Hal Wine)
Subject: Re: Oakland's proposed new firearms ordinance
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services (408 241-9760 guest)
Distribution: ca
Date: Fri, 18 Dec 1992 08:37:27 GMT

In article <1992Dec12.001906.700@igor.tamri.com> donb@igor.tamri.com
(Don Baldwin) writes:
>Funny, my driver's license identifies me pretty well and could be used
>to match my name with my fingerprints already...

I don't know about you, but all the state has on me is my thumb print
from my driver's license application.  In the past, driver's licenses
have been pretty easy to forge -- the newer ones are better in this
respect.
-- 
Hal Wine
Internet: hal@netcom.com		Compuserve: 72267,3346
Xref: sparky ca.politics:10406 talk.politics.misc:64610
From: mhi@wet.UUCP (Philip E. Murphy)
Newsgroups: ca.politics,talk.politics.misc
Subject: Re: Gay/Lesbian Equal Rights Needed
Date: 17 Dec 92 03:30:55 GMT
Followup-To: ca.politics
Organization: Wetware Diversions, San Francisco


>No question, massive education is needed.  But it won't solve the 
>problem of the person who is suicidal, and completely unable to
>control their sexuality (i.e. the average homosexual).
>  
>-- 
>Clayton E. Cramer {uunet,pyramid}!optilink!cramer  My opinions, all mine!
>C++ is to C, as lung cancer is to lung.

Come on Clayton.  Your posts walk the line anyway without saying
"(i.e. the average homosexual)"  You have never met the average homosexual any-
more than we have met Clayton Cramer.  You can only judge from the subset of
the net.  The "average homosexual" is a statistical subset of those interviewed
for a survey.  In a society where "coming out" is still tramatic because of
opinions like yours, you can bet that any survey results will be slanted as 
well.

If you want your posts to have seasoning like a good stew, well then you never
disapoint me.  Along that line, its always good to have a "straight man" in
any comic routine (straight man and fool).  Keep up the posts even if you do
not believe them yourself - its good copy and subject to consistent rebuttal.

"Petaluma was a better place when all it hatched was chickens" - Seneca


-- 

Phil Murphy                                          (415) 285-2595 voice 
P.O. Box 460084 San Francisco,CA 94146-0084          (415) 285-8213 fax
From: steiny@steiny.com (Don Steiny)
Newsgroups: ca.politics
Subject: Re: Perot wrong again, banks fine
Keywords: Perot-noid
Date: 11 Dec 92 15:06:53 GMT
Distribution: ca
Organization: Don Steiny Software

joan@koala.berkeley.edu writes:

>>	In todays SF Chronicle they mentioned that bank failures are half
>>what the FDIC expected.    No special bailout will be needed.   I recall
>>that Perot predicted that after the election it would be announced that
>>there would be a bank bailout.   

>	I recall that he said that we weren't being told the full amount
>it was going to cost, and that about 50 billion more would have to be
>appropriated after the election.  I also recall reading something in
>a newspaper about 2 weeks after the election that said more money was
>appropriated, although I don't remember how much.  How nice if it will
>not be needed.

	It is a fraction of that.   I was told because I read the newspapers.
Some banks failed because of the property problems in LA, but it was a few
billion.   The money was set aside more than a year ago and it was in all
the papers.   He said we would be surprised because it would be much worse
than they had been saying, but we were surprised because it was much better.

-don
-- 
Don Steiny
Don Steiny Software
Santa Cruz, CA 95060
(408) 425-0382
Xref: sparky ca.politics:10292 talk.politics.misc:63925
From: manley@optilink.COM (Terry Manley)
Newsgroups: ca.politics,talk.politics.misc
Subject: Re: Gay/Lesbian Equal Rights Needed
Date: 11 Dec 92 18:16:28 GMT
Organization: DSC/Optilink Access Products

In article <1g85b5INNs8a@copland.crhc.uiuc.edu> pgr@crhc.uiuc.edu (Paul Ryan) writes:
`cramer@optilink.COM (Clayton Cramer) writes:
`
``AIDS is something that gay men did to themselves.
`
`No, AIDS is something gay men saved you from.
`
`Are you familiar with the canaries coal miners took into the mines with
`them?  More sensitive to odorless poison gas, they would die before the
`miners, giving the miners a warning and time to escape.
`
`Well, AIDS was out there.  People had it and were dying of it.  It was
`all over the third world, and out there, it was spread primarily
`through heterosexual sex.
`
`So, AIDS hits America.  Luckily for you, it hit gay men first.  And during
`all the years it took America to wake up and take notice, gay men were
`bearing the brunt of the epidemic, dropping like flies.  During all the
`years it took to identify the virus and come up with a test, gay men died.
`
`Do you *really* think AIDS would never have hit America without gay men?
`WRONG.  WRONG.  WRONG.
`
`It would have hit a few years later.  But it would have hit the blood banks
`first, spreading through hospitals and operations into the straight population,
`then infecting their lovers, spouses and children, all with that nasty
`multi-year incubation period to let it spread.  It would have cut deeper
`into the hemophiliac population, and it would have hit the young straight
`singles crowd like Hurricane Andrew.
`
`But did it?  Nope.  Your canary died first, and you got out of the mine 
`in time.  Clayton Cramer, you should get down on your knees and give thanks
`to the gay shock troops that protected your wife and your daughter from AIDS.
`Has anyone in your family ever needed blood?  In an operation?  In childbirth?
`Know why they're not dead now?  Because someone gay died in their place.
`
`Blaming gay men for AIDS is stupid.  It may make you feel better, but it's
`no brighter than hating a dead canary in a coal mine.
`
`Paul
`
`-- 
`Paul Ryan                  (pgr@crhc.uiuc.edu)     1308 West Main St.
`Center for Reliable High-Performance Computing     Urbana, IL 61801
`University of Illinois at Urbana-Champaign         (217) 244-7179

Do you really believe this?

dave
manley@optilink.com
From: lpb@florida.swdc.stratus.com (Len Bucuvalas)
Newsgroups: ca.politics
Subject: Should Teenage Murderers Be Tried as Adults
Date: 15 Dec 92 23:56:20 GMT
Distribution: ca

Today in the news paper (SF Chronicle) I read the headline:

Youth Gets 6 Months in Fatal Stabbing

This is the wrap up story to the case of the 2-3 teenagers who
stabbed a 41 year old man who was waiting for his daughter
outside of Union City High School.

The man died. One youth will serve 6 months in juvenile hall.
The other will serve tme in a youth detention facility in
Arizona.

And I say BIG F*@&ING deal!

Why shouldn't these miniature crapheads get the chair? They
are nothing more than rabid animals who know nothing better
than to kill for what they want. I say to hell with them.

If you commit an act of murder that is a case of agression and
NOT a case of self defense then the person who was tried and
convicted of that murder should be executed..themselves
murdered..within 7 days or less of the conviction.

I am tired of taxes paying well in excess of 30K per year to house
and cloth and feed convicted murderers. If they have been
convicted of premeditated or frst degree manslaughter (Which
was not in self defense) then they should die.

Now what about these young punks huh? Had that been me I would
have taken the punk's throat out before he could have even
drawn his blade....it is my opinion that these so called
children who kill...they should stand trial as adults and be
sentenced as adults....and suffer the same penalties as
adults.

Those little shits should consider themselves fortunate. Had
it been myself or someone like me that they had
attacked...they may not be alive today to serve their panty
waist time in juvvy!  And had I faced a judge after doing
it..I would smile and tell him that, under the exact same
circumstances, I would do it again!   >:^|

Len

DISCLAIMER: Nothing I say reflects the attitudes or opinions
of my employer.
--
*@*@*@*@*@*@*@*@*@*@*@*@*@*@*@*@*@*@*@*@*@*@*@*@*@*@*@*@*@*@*@*@*@*@*@*
The accountability of government has gone to the point where the very
use of the law is the instrument of illegality.
		-- Ralph Nader @ Harvard Law School, 1/15/92
Newsgroups: ca.politics,ba.politics
From: guido@island.COM (Guido Marx)
Subject: Gennifer Flowers
Organization: Island Graphics Corp.  San Rafael, Ca.
Date: Fri, 11 Dec 1992 20:26:12 GMT

In article <1992Dec10.172718.4708@netcom.com> phil@netcom.com (Phil Ronzone) writes:
>
>And Gennifer Flowers is NOT lying -- and Clinton doesn't deny it.

As I recall, Clinton DID deny that he carried on a 12 year affair
with Flowers as she claims.  He DIDN'T deny that he had ever had
an affair (with her or anyone else).  I took this as an admission
that he HAD had an affair(s).  I personally don't believe
for a minute that they had a "12 year affair" as Flowers claims.  Her
own taped phone call gives that one away.  Do you honestly believe
that someone carrying on an affair of that duration would call her
and say "hi, this is Bill Clinton" ?  

Guido
Xref: sparky ca.politics:10298 talk.politics.misc:63929
From: cramer@optilink.COM (Clayton Cramer)
Newsgroups: ca.politics,talk.politics.misc
Subject: Re: "HIV-infected molest suspect outrages town"
Date: 12 Dec 92 01:57:48 GMT
Organization: Optilink Corporation, Petaluma, CA

In article <104277@bu.edu>, kane@buast7.bu.edu (Hot Young Star) writes:
> In article <13478@optilink.COM> cramer@optilink.COM (Clayton Cramer) writes:
> 
> >By the way, I strongly support employment discrimination against 
> >males (sexual orientation irrelevant) by day care providers, because 
> >males are disproportionately involved in child sexual abuse.
> 
> Hmmm...most molesting involved children between the ages of 6 and 12.
> 
> Therefore, we shouldn't hire any male 1st- thru 6th-grade teachers?

I would have no objection at all to such a rule.
-- 
Clayton E. Cramer {uunet,pyramid}!optilink!cramer  My opinions, all mine!
C++ is to C, as lung cancer is to lung.
Xref: sparky ca.politics:10299 ba.politics:7689
From: cramer@optilink.COM (Clayton Cramer)
Newsgroups: ca.politics,ba.politics
Subject: Re: Men in Day-Care was Re: "HIV-infected molest...
Date: 12 Dec 92 01:59:08 GMT
Distribution: ca
Organization: Optilink Corporation, Petaluma, CA

In article <1992Dec9.160130.15804@elroy.jpl.nasa.gov>, carlos@spanky.Jpl.Nasa.Gov (Carlos Carrion) writes:
> In article <13562@optilink.COM> cramer@optilink.COM (Clayton Cramer) writes:
> >In article <1992Dec7.160957.29132@elroy.jpl.nasa.gov>, carlos@spanky.Jpl.Nasa.Gov (Carlos Carrion) writes:
# ## 	So? Are you saying that you won't hire men because of what they
# ## 	might do?
# #
# #I wouldn't hire men to work in a day care center, that's for sure.
# #
# ## 	Would you support legislation to that effect?
# ## 
# ## carlos.
# #
# #I wouldn't support any law to REQUIRE discrimination against
# #men in employment, nor would I support any to PROHIBIT discrimination
# #against men in employment.  It's not the government's job, just
# #like it's not their job to tell adults who they can or can't
# #have sex with.
# 
# 	You once responded to a post of mine saying that the Federal
# 	Government does not have the right to racially discriminate
# 	in their hiring/firing practices.  Your rationale being that the
# 	Federal Government is a monopoly...
# 
# carlos.

Yes.  The government shouldn't discriminate, because they are
a monopoly. They shouldn't prohibit a private employer from
doing so.


-- 
Clayton E. Cramer {uunet,pyramid}!optilink!cramer  My opinions, all mine!
C++ is to C, as lung cancer is to lung.
From: cramer@optilink.COM (Clayton Cramer)
Newsgroups: ca.politics
Subject: Re: Education Under Attack in Calif.
Date: 12 Dec 92 02:00:24 GMT
Organization: Optilink Corporation, Petaluma, CA

In article <104413@bu.edu>, kane@buast7.bu.edu (Hot Young Star) writes:
> In article <13563@optilink.COM> cramer@optilink.COM (Clayton Cramer) writes:
# #the private school my daughter attends isn't Catholic.
# #The tuition is $2000 per year.  That includes books.
# 
# Sounds like you got a really good deal going.
# 
# I've heard that Massachusetts spends about 5,000 per year educating each
# student in public schools.

California spends about $5200/year in public schools.  Admittedly,
they ARE the government.  You shouldn't expect much efficiency or
competence from the government.

# Is public education in your neck of the woods really that dismal? If so,
# is it a question of underspending, lack of good resources, or lack of
# good, committed teachers?
# 
# Brian

It's too many bureaucrats spending money on fancy district offices.


-- 
Clayton E. Cramer {uunet,pyramid}!optilink!cramer  My opinions, all mine!
C++ is to C, as lung cancer is to lung.
Xref: sparky ca.politics:10442 talk.politics.misc:64877
Newsgroups: ca.politics
Subject: Message Clutter
Date: Fri, 11 Dec 1992 18:58:34 -0800

        I'm a new user, and this BBS program is also new to me.  One
particular thing I've noticed that I don't like is the amount of clutter the
posts contain.  I assume that part of this "problem" is unavoidable, with
respect to the initial NET information that apparently appears in every
message, regardless.

        However, one thing I've noticed that IS under the control of users
is the practice of quoting from the post one is responding to.  It seems
that virtually EVERY post contains way too much quoting.  For example, I've
seen countless messages where the user quotes a long passage from the
original post,followed by their ONE LINE comment.  Is this really
necessary?

        To exaggerate my point.  It's like quoting an entire chapter of "War
and Peace," and at the end of the passage, typing in a line that says: "I
really like this chapter..."  Couldn't you just say; "I really liked Chapter
Seven of War and Peace," and spare us the entire chapter?

        For a good majority of posts on this net, it seems that if you
SUBTRACTED OUT the lead-in NET stuff, and SUBTRACTED OUT the lengthy TAG
LINES,and also SUBTRACTED OUT the QUOTES from the original post, what you
would be left with is a few lines of actual commentary!

        When I first logged on here and began reading the posts, it seemed
like there were dozens and dozens of posts, that ALL quoted major sections
of the same ORIGINAL POST, and we're talking a screen full or two.  So, I
had to wade through the same message over and over and over again, as quoted
by all the responders to that post.  This is ridiculous.

        In my opinion, the feature which allows you to "grab" partial or
entire quotes from an original message is mostly a CRUTCH.  It comes in
handy sometimes, but some of you seem to be ABUSING the advantage, to a
point which seems to smack of intellectual LAZINESS.

        Well, that's my two cents' worth...



 * Origin: Central Computer Banks - mcws.fidonet.org (1:102/851)
Xref: sparky ca.politics:10302 talk.politics.misc:63930