HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: b259phl@utarlg.uta.edu (PHILIP LIPPEL)
Subject: Re: Newbie Wants Advice on C-Programming
Summary: Begin at the beginning ...
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41    
Organization: The University of Texas at Arlington
Date: Sun, 27 Dec 1992 22:50:00 GMT

> 
>You really have to learn C before learning C++, but you might as well learn
>C++ _programming_ directly.
> 
>> ...
>> 3) How robust is C compared to Fortran for purely number crunching, scientific
>>    type applications on the PC?
>To my taste, nobody has beaten K&R II for C.  For C++, or the non-C part of
>C++, you'll need at least two books: a book from which to learn and the ARM
>(Elis and Stroustrup, _The Annotated C++ Reference Manual_) for checking the

There is a pretty nice book on C for those who know FORTRAN which you might
want to look for. Sorry I can't give you the exact reference right now as I
gave the book to a student so he could start learning C over semester break, 
but it shouldn't be too hard to find in a good technical bookstore.
Newsgroups: alt.msdos.programmer
From: daled@cadence.com (Dale DePriest)
Subject: Re: bidirectional centronics port
Organization: Cadence Design Systems
Date: Mon, 28 Dec 1992 22:38:50 GMT


--
    _      _     Dale DePriest  		San Jose, California
   /`) _  //     daled@Cadence.COM		voice: (408) 428-5249
 o/_/ (_(_X_(`	 
Newsgroups: alt.msdos.programmer,comp.os.msdos.programmer,comp.sys.ibm.pc.programmer,comp.lang.c++,comp.lang.c
From: bank@lea.csc.ncsu.edu (Belgarath the Sorcerer)
Subject: Re: Newbie Wants Advice on C-Programming
Organization: /etc/organization
Date: Fri, 25 Dec 1992 05:05:15 GMT

    I'd like to follow-up on some subsequent Posts on this thread.

1) C is NOT a sub-set of C++. C++ is a superset of C. Yes, I
    know, that is a semantical splitting of hairs. But the first
    expression leaves the reader with the idea that C++ came
    before C, when in fact C predates C++ by the better part
    of two decades.

2) The "Learn C or C++?" question can ONLY be answered by first
    asking "OOP or traditional?" If you are and/or want to stay

    a traditional, top-down programmer, go with C. If you want
    to get into OOP, go with C++.

3) If you are going to go into OOP, DO NOT start off with
    stuff like Pascal, as one person has suggested. OOP is a
    completely different mindset than the traditional forms used
    by Pascal and C. The best language for learning OOP is,
    of course, Smalltalk. I wouldn't want to DEVELOP anything
    in Smalltalk, but if I were to start learning OOP, I think
    that would be the best language to learn the concepts in.

4) Even if you're not going into OOP, do NOT take up Pascal as
    a road to C. Pascal is a language that assumes you know
    very little and places lots of restrictions and
    inhibitions on you. If you already are a traditional-style
    programmer, you don't need the knowledge Pascal will
    teach you (modularization, declaration, etc). Go on into
    C and avoid having to unlearn all the limits Pascal will
    place on you.

5) Picking up Assembler prior to learning C isn't a bad idea.
    Hardly required, tho.

Belgarath the Sorcerer
bank@lea.csc.ncsu.edu

DISCLAIMER: The above Post constitutes an honest effort by the
             author to impart information he knows, or
             reasonably knows, to be true. All other interpretations
             are in error.
 
Newsgroups: alt.msdos.programmer,comp.os.msdos.programmer,comp.sys.ibm.pc.programmer,comp.lang.c++,comp.lang.c
From: pjh@mccc.edu (Pete Holsberg)
Subject: Re: Newbie Wants Advice on C-Programming
Organization: The College On The Other Side Of Route One
Date: Mon, 28 Dec 1992 18:19:53 GMT

In article <1992Dec24.154204.25248@blkbox> collins@blkbox (Chad R. Collins) writes:
=noring@netcom.com (Jon Noring) writes:
= 	Well, when I went from Basic to C (one of the best moves I ever made :)
=I used to book called "C:step-by-step" by Waite & Prata. It is a very good
=book for basic C.... I still use it now when I have to clarify something.
=It doesn't cover C++ at all, though, so if you want to learn that you might
=want to look for something else.

C:Step By Step and its alter ego, The New C Primer Plus are both full
of errors!

Newsgroups: alt.msdos.programmer,comp.os.ms-windows.programmer.tools,comp.os.msdos.programmer,comp.sys.ibm.pc.programmer,comp.windows.ms.programmer
From: jbii@HDFS1.acd.com ( John O. Bell II )
Subject: Re: Borland C++ 3.1 vs Microsoft C/C++ 7.0
Summary: *zing*
Organization: Applied Computing Devices, Inc., Terre Haute IN
Date: Tue, 22 Dec 1992 20:03:03 GMT

In article <richard.724967376@dutepp13> Richard.Kooijman@dnpap.et.tudelft.nl (Richard Kooijman) writes:
>martens@prl.philips.nl (martens p) writes:
>
>>I have found the Microsoft people in the Netherlands to be *very* helpful
>>and knowledgable. I have received minor updates, technical notes and 
>>even reprints of useful articles from them, all for free. Maybe you have
>>an attitude problem?
>
>No, I haven't contacted Microsoft, but another member of our team.
>So, it can't be me.
>
>>>We will would 'like' to settle with that until Borland comes out
>>>with another fine product.
>
>>And deal with Borland support?
>
>I yet have to use a Borland product (and I have used and am using
>more Borland products than Microsoft products) for which I NEED support.
>The Microsoft compilers I have worked with, all have been so
>bug ridden that I surely needed not only support but also updates the
>day after the original product arrived.
>
>Richard.

Touche. Microsoft should observe IBM and realize that will be them in another
5 to 10 years if they don't watch it. Better invest in quality people and
products instead of middle management that drools all over Big Bill's shoes.

John Bell
Applied Computing Devices, Inc.
jbii@hdfs1.acd.com
Newsgroups: alt.msdos.programmer,comp.os.msdos.programmer
From: mkohtala@lesti.hut.fi (Marko Kohtala)
Subject: Re: Is findfirst/findnext deterministic? (same order each time)?
Reply-To: Marko.Kohtala@hut.fi
Organization: Helsinki University of Technology, Finland
Date:  3 Jan 93 17:50:25 GMT

In <JViRwB4w165w@vsystem.wimsey.bc.ca> rick@vsystem.wimsey.bc.ca (Rick Vandenberg) writes:
>pdh@netcom.com (Phil Howard ) writes:
>> raymond@kronos.arc.nasa.gov (Eric A. Raymond) writes:
>> >Are the DOS findfirst/findnext directory functions deterministic.
>> >That is, will they report the files in the same order for a given
>> >disk?

To make a point to all the replies to this question, I must remind you
that not much is guaranteed of the operation of those functions.
OS/2, NT and any installable file system will implement their own ways
to order the files. 

So one should not rely on some file system feature that depends on FAT
and MS-DOS, at least unless makes sure there IS FAT and MS-DOS and not
some emulator.
-- 
---
Marko Kohtala - INTERNET:Marko.Kohtala@hut.fi, mkohtala@otax.tky.hut.fi
Student at (not representative of) the Helsinki University of Technology
From: tomcat@cwis.unomaha.edu (Jeffrey S. Jo)
Newsgroups: alt.msdos.programmer
Subject: Re: bios password problem (how to bypass)
Date: 1 Jan 93 23:42:02 GMT
Organization: University of Nebraska at Omaha

umfinla5@ccu.umanitoba.ca (Doug Finlayson) writes:

>I have a friend who has inadvertently added a password to the bios and 
>then forgotten it. Is there an easy way to reset the bios , without
>attempting to remove the battery ? 
>I don't know the bios manufacturer . 
>Is there  a default password for AMI bios ,for example? 

>Thanks for any help,

>Doug Finlayson


Well, there is a default password, but you'll have to pull the battery
for about a half hour and then turn on the computer.  Default password for
the AMI bios is AMI...they may have changed it but this was the last I heard
it was.  What you may also want to do is to read the manual that came with
the computer and see if you can pull the chip that holds the password.
Other than that, I don't know of any other way to get to the password.

Any other suggestions out there?

--
|Jeffrey S. Jo                   | 	         F-14D Tomcat                 |
|Computer Operations		 |             VF-142 Ghostriders             |
|University of Nebraska at Omaha |       United States Navy F-14 Tomcat       |
|tomcat@cwis.unomaha.edu         |              Fighter Squadron              |
From: lord@tradent.wimsey.bc.ca (Jason Cooper)
Newsgroups: alt.msdos.programmer
Subject: Trident TVGA 89C Support
Date: Wed, 23 Dec 92 23:17:03 PST
Organization: TradeNET International Trade Corp.

In the manual for the Trident TVGA 89C I saw no mention of a technical 
support number so I though I'd ask here.  The 8514 emmulator included in 
the package closes when I use the closegraph() C function.  I run the 
emulator then tell the program to use 8514 graphics.  The graphics look 
fine but I get a bunch of random characters on the screen and the system 
goes berserk when I use closegraph().  I am using Borland C++ v.3.1 
w/Application frameworks and programming in MS-DOS.  Can anyone help me 
with this problem or lead me to a BGI or revised emulator for my card?  
Thanks.
Organization: Penn State University
Date: Mon, 28 Dec 1992 00:21:40 EST
From: Spaceman Spiff <SXK129@psuvm.psu.edu>
Newsgroups: alt.msdos.programmer
Subject: how to swap keys?

i've got a game in which the movement of the cursor is controlled by the
a,w,s and z keys. i find this incredibly annoying and uncomfortable. is there
any way for me to be able to swap the a, w, s and z keys with the left, up,
right and down cursor keys respectively?
all help will be greatly appreciated.
---
later,
sunil
Newsgroups: alt.msdos.programmer,comp.os.msdos.programmer,comp.sys.ibm.pc.programmer,comp.lang.c++,comp.lang.c
From: jimlynch@netcom.com (Jim Lynch)
Subject: Re: Newbie Wants Advice on C-Programming
Organization: Netcom Online Communications Services (408-241-9760 login: guest)
Date: Sat, 2 Jan 1993 16:33:24 GMT

P.S: GNU CC and C++ delivers some of the best code around (when it's machine
description is set up right...)
From: scott@mycro.UUCP (Scott C. Sadow)
Newsgroups: alt.msdos.programmer
Subject: Re: This is strange, div doesn't work....
Date: Sat, 19 Dec 92 10:49:45 EST

In article <1gp6q9INNgdd@aludra.usc.edu>, Michael Duffy (mduffy@aludra.usc.edu) writes:
>I hope someone can help me, 'cause I'm at a loss.
>
>The following code gives me a divide error:
>
> mov  ax,0035h
> mov  dx,01h
> div  dx
>
>It should work.  I don't know why it doesn't.  Could some assembly language
>genius please show me the light?  E-mail please since I don't check this
>group very often.  Thank you much,
>Michael Duffy (mduffy@aludra.usc.edu)
>


The problem is that "DIV <word>" means to divide DX:AX by <word>.
Therefore, the above example is dividing "00010035H" by "0001". This
causes a divide error because the result cannot fit in one word. Try the
following instead:

   MOV   AX,0035H
   XOR   DX,DX
   MOV   BX,01H
   DIV   BX


(this answer was posted because it seemed like something many people w
Newsgroups: alt.msdos.programmer,comp.os.msdos.programmer,comp.sys.ibm.pc.programmer,comp.lang.c++,comp.lang.c
From: mat@mole-end.matawan.nj.us
Subject: Re: Newbie Wants Advice on C-Programming
Organization: :
Date: Sun, 27 Dec 1992 03:11:57 GMT

In article <1992Dec25.070024.15672@grebyn.com>, malak@grebyn.com (Michael Malak) writes:
> In article <1hdpluINN1lv@agate.berkeley.edu> faustus@ygdrasil.CS.Berkeley.EDU (Wayne A. Christopher) writes:
> >In article <1992Dec24.172333.7339@grebyn.com> malak@grebyn.com (Michael Malak) writes:

> >> ...  I feel the following must be learned in order:
> >>   1) Pascal, with two semesters experience

> >IMHO, Pascal has nothing useful that C doesn't have, except for array
> >bounds checking.  You you use C++ you can use a vector class that
> >gives you that.

> Pascal has the following advantages over C:
>    1) It has structured syntactic blocks for constants, types and
>       variables.

This is no advantage.

A program is a model: an abstraction expressed in a representation.  The
Pascal seperation of constant, type, and variable classifies the tools of
representation; it is irrelevant within a program.  Would you require a
cook to measure out all the ingredients specified by tablespoons before
measuring any ingredient specified by cups?
 
>    2) It has nested procedures.

True to a point.  See Kernighan's _Why Pascal is not my Favorite Programming
Language_ for the limitations of nested procedures.
 
>    3) Most importantly, the good structured programming professors
>       wouldn't be caught dead teaching C (biggotry in my opinion).

Besides which, people who learn Pascal first seem to take three or four
times as long to learn how to use C pointers as people who don't learn
Pascal at all, and Pascal introduces people to some really poor habits.

The classical Pascal expression of a loop-and-a-half cannot be written
as a while() because Pascal's expression syntax is too weak.  It cannot
be written as a loop-and-a-half because Pascal doesn't allow a `break'
from a loop.  What results is a circumlocution involving more code in
control flow and temporary variable managing than in solving the problem;
worse, one branch of an  if-then  is related to the circumlocution and
one to the problem to be solved.  This is a very bad form of incohesion:

	if not X
		manage the loop
	else
		solve the problem

This seems to me as damaging to potential software designers as BASIC
is claimed to be to potential programmers.
-- 
 (This man's opinions are his own.)
 From mole-end				Mark Terribile

 mat@mole-end.matawan.nj.us, Somewhere in Matawan, NJ
Newsgroups: alt.msdos.programmer,comp.os.msdos.programmer,comp.lang.c
From: chambles@whale.st.usm.edu (John William Chambless)
Subject: Re: Newbie Wants Advice on C-Programming
Organization: University of Southern Mississippi
Date: Wed, 30 Dec 1992 01:41:33 GMT

>>>
>>>Thank you very much, but no, C is just fine for me.
>>>Really.
>
>>ADA: Another Dumb Adaptation...
>
>If we're happy with C (I'm happier with C++, personally), why waste
>time and bandwidth bashing someone else's choice?  There are people
>who love Ada; let them use it.  What's the big deal?
>
 I wasn't so much bashing ADA as the idea of a "general purpose" language.
The first attempt at a GPL was COBOL, which turned out to be great for
some uses, awful for others. It is interesting, BTW, that Grace Murray
Hopper, the main creator of COBOL, promoted the idea of having many
special purpose languages, rather than some mega-kludge that would almost
work for everything.

Personally, I agree with you about letting people use what they like.

At the same time...C++ seems to have wandered into becoming a general purpose
language by default. From the little bit that I've played at C++, it seems
to have the potential. 

-- 
* Billy Chambless   University of Southern Mississippi, USA 
*   chambles@whale.st.usm.edu
*    
Newsgroups: copm.os.msdos.programmer,alt.msdos.programmer,comp.msdo.programmer,comp.sys.ibm.pc.programmer
From: nejib@krusty.eecs.umich.edu (Nejib Ben Hadj-Alouane)
Subject: MS-DOS Extenders
Organization: University of Michigan EECS Dept., Ann Arbor, MI
Distribution: na
Date: Tue, 22 Dec 1992 20:41:32 GMT


Hello,

I am working on a large C (Microsoft C) program. I am 
afraid that it might get bigger that 640 K and that I might need
to use an "MS-DOS extender". I am wondering if anybody has experience
with "extenders" that he/she might be willing to share (does the
code need any modifications; speed, this is a real-time application; 
what is the best extender to use). Better, yet
does anyone know how to get around using any "extenders". I appreciate
any help. Please e-mail; if I get enough answers, I will compile and
post a message.


                                --Nejib

Thanks in advance.
                             --Nejib
Newsgroups: alt.msdos.programmer,comp.os.msdos.programmer,comp.sys.ibm.pc.programmer,comp.lang.c++,comp.lang.c
From: alan@sal.wisc.edu (Alan Watson)
Subject: Re: Newbie Wants Advice on C-Programming
Organization: Space Astronomy Lab, Madison WI
Date: Fri, 25 Dec 1992 18:42:59 GMT

I came to C from Fortran a few years back; with a Fortran background,
there are two distinct things one needs to master to program
effectively in C.

Firstly, one must master the new programming techniques, such as
linkage classes, scope, pointers, heap memory management, and
recursion.  Secondly, one must master the notation and semantics of the
C language -- C is a very dense and tightly-woven language.

One can attempt to learn both of these concepts simultaneously, by
plunging straight into C, or one can learn the first using Pascal, a
much simpler, smaller, and more limited language than C.  This was the
path I would recommend, with a couple of months with Jensen and Wirth
to learn the new concepts (where new == late 1960s) with Pascal and
then a couple of weeks with Kernighan and Ritchie to learn the C
language per se.

There is so much new stuff in C that I would learn it first and then
C++.

****

Fortran possesses several advantages over C in numerical computing, but
none of them are overwhelming.  There are better and more extensive
libraries available in Fortran (but f2c exists), Fortran compilers on
fast machines generally produce better scalar code than C compilers
(but only by perhaps at most 25%), Fortran has complex numbers
(although these can be added easily to C++), and Fortran code will
often vectorize more easily and with less intervention that C code (but
often even Fortran code needs tweaking or re-writing to take full
advantage).  Still, I work almost exclusively in C because I find I can
write, debug, and understand my programs more quickly and easily, and
still get within 25% of the speed of Fortran.  Your milage may vary.

****

On a separate issue, some people insist on making the age-old assertion
that C is a kind of portable assembly language.  This is simply not
true.

C deals with the kind of objects and operations that many assembly
languages do, but it gives one no information on the REALIZATION of the
language on the machine.  For example, the language does not specify
the format (or even the existence) of the call stack, so it is
impossible to garbage-collect the stack in standard C, just as it is
impossible to do this in, say, standard Pascal.  (Yes, I know one can
do it in both C and Pascal for specific implementations.)  It is true,
however, to say that C (and similar languages, such as BCPL and BLISS)
replaced assembly language in many tasks.
Newsgroups: alt.msdos.programmer,comp.os.msdos.programmer,comp.sys.ibm.pc.programmer,comp.lang.c++,comp.lang.c
From: malak@grebyn.com (Michael Malak)
Subject: Re: Newbie Wants Advice on C-Programming
Organization: Grebyn Timesharing
Date: Mon, 28 Dec 1992 05:01:33 GMT

In article <1992Dec27.031740.27262@mole-end.matawan.nj.us> mat@mole-end.matawan.nj.us writes:
>In article <1992Dec25.073517.16089@grebyn.com>, malak@grebyn.com (Michael Malak) writes:
>> In article <1992Dec25.050515.20871@ncsu.edu> bank@lea.csc.ncsu.edu (Belgarath the Sorcerer) writes:
>
>> >4) Even if you're not going into OOP, do NOT take up Pascal as
>> >    a road to C. ...
> 
>> Oh?  Have you ever seen C code written by a former FORTRAN programmer?
>> If so, by how many?  Universally you will find:
>>    1) Very short, illegible variable and function names, with the
>>       first character wasted (all integers must start with 'i', don't
>>       you know)
>>    2) No use of structures
>>    3) No linked lists or trees
>>    4) No whitespace
>>    5) Lots of illegible "creative" formulas
>>    6) No comments
>
>As one who learned FORTRAN first, I consider this a slur; were it applied
>to me directly it would be a libel.  The word `Universally' is used in
>error.

My error, and it is genuine, is that I omitted "self-taught"; i.e., I
was referring to those FORTRAN programmers who taught themselves C in a
vacuum.

Newsgroups: alt.msdos.programmer,comp.os.msdos.programmer,comp.sys.ibm.pc.programmer,comp.lang.c++,comp.lang.c
From: mat@mole-end.matawan.nj.us
Subject: Re: Newbie Wants Advice on C-Programming
Summary: Yes, I have seen C written by a FORTRAN programmer ...
Organization: :
Date: Sun, 27 Dec 1992 03:17:40 GMT

In article <1992Dec25.073517.16089@grebyn.com>, malak@grebyn.com (Michael Malak) writes:
> In article <1992Dec25.050515.20871@ncsu.edu> bank@lea.csc.ncsu.edu (Belgarath the Sorcerer) writes:

> >4) Even if you're not going into OOP, do NOT take up Pascal as
> >    a road to C. ...
 
> Oh?  Have you ever seen C code written by a former FORTRAN programmer?
> If so, by how many?  Universally you will find:
>    1) Very short, illegible variable and function names, with the
>       first character wasted (all integers must start with 'i', don't
>       you know)
>    2) No use of structures
>    3) No linked lists or trees
>    4) No whitespace
>    5) Lots of illegible "creative" formulas
>    6) No comments

As one who learned FORTRAN first, I consider this a slur; were it applied
to me directly it would be a libel.  The word `Universally' is used in
error.

Before I learned C I began to declare all my FORTRAN variables; there
were no wasted initial letters.  And after I learned C, my FORTRAN began
to look like C.

A FORTRAN programmer who meets bad C will not learn good habits from it;
a FORTRAN programmer who meets good C will.  `Good C' does not just mean
C free from the defects you give; it means C that expresses a good design
using C's idioms well.

If the FORTRAN programmer whom you have watched learn C did not have good
C to learn from, do not blame C.
-- 
 (This man's opinions are his own.)
 From mole-end				Mark Terribile

 mat@mole-end.matawan.nj.us, Somewhere in Matawan, NJ
Newsgroups: alt.msdos.programmer
From: umfinla5@ccu.umanitoba.ca (Doug Finlayson)
Subject: bios password problem (how to bypass)
Organization: University of Manitoba, Winnipeg, Canada
Date: Fri, 1 Jan 1993 20:17:01 GMT

I have a friend who has inadvertently added a password to the bios and 
then forgotten it. Is there an easy way to reset the bios , without
attempting to remove the battery ? 
I don't know the bios manufacturer . 
Is there  a default password for AMI bios ,for example? 

Thanks for any help,

Doug Finlayson
From: Jon Freivald <jaf@jaflrn.UUCP>
Newsgroups: alt.msdos.programmer
Subject: Re: bios password problem (how to bypass)
Date: Sat, 02 Jan 93 17:19:01 EST
Organization: The Wizzard's Cave, East Meadow, NY

umfinla5@ccu.umanitoba.ca (Doug Finlayson) writes:

> I have a friend who has inadvertently added a password to the bios and 
> then forgotten it. Is there an easy way to reset the bios , without
> attempting to remove the battery ? 
> I don't know the bios manufacturer . 
> Is there  a default password for AMI bios ,for example? 

Depends on the machine...  If it's a Zenith, the password is stored in
N-RAM -- the only way to get the password removed is to return the
machine to an authorized Zenith repair center to have the chip replaced.
No, they will not sell the part direct... :-( (Actually, not a bad
policy, albeit a pain in the @$$.)  No BIOS I know of has a "default" or
"back-door" password...

=============================================================================
                   Jon Freivald ( jaf%jaflrn@uunet.UU.NET )
	 Nothing is impossible for the man who doesn't have to do it.
		    PGP V2 public key available on request
=============================================================================
Newsgroups: alt.msdos.programmer,comp.os.msdos.programmer