HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: onf@cbnewsg.cb.att.com (omar.farooq)
Subject: RE: National language
Organization: AT&T
Date: Tue, 21 Jul 1992 17:38:14 GMT

In Article 25942
----------------------------
Article 25942 in soc.culture.pakistan:
From: ahasan@cae.wisc.edu (Ali Hasan)
Subject: Re: national language
Organization: U of Wisconsin-Madison College of Engineering
Date: 21 Jul 92 10:02:02 CDT

[....deleted...]

        NOT!!
        Faarsee was the language of the Mughal courts, Urdu was perpetuated
        and supported by Firangis to try to take muslims away from their
        ruling past.

        You should have paid more attention in those urdu classes ;-)

                                                --ali.

A point of quite important correction by Ali.  However, regardless of the nature
of Urdu's political/social implications in the Subcontinent's history, it
was the language of the Muslims of India.  Urdu is a mixture of the
pre-Islamic Hindu languages, Turkish, Pharsee, Arabic, and some Greek in
Northwest Pakistan (Sikander's route).  So whether Urdu became popular during
the decline of the Mughal Empire or it was a Farangi tool, it is a language
which is indigenous to the subcontinent as a result of the inter-mingling
of the Muslim influence from the West and North, and the local Hindu
culture.

Just for the record: Urdu means army in Turkish (it's oldest influence is from
the Turkic tribes who entered through Afghanistan from Central Asia).
Thabhee kaihthay hain kay Urdu lashkaree zaban hay, which evolved to its
high litereary status it enjoys today!

Enough, I got work to do.
later
omar

Newsgroups: soc.culture.pakistan
From: raza@surya.ccs.uwo.ca (Mr. Raza Syed)
Subject: Re: Pakistani marriage arguments and discussions...
Organization: University of Western Ontario, London
Date: Sun, 26 Jul 1992 02:11:06 GMT
Keywords: killing wife, divorce, backward tribal laws

In article <1992Jul25.161557.7905@panix.com> ruthless@panix.com (Ruth Ditucci) writes:
>It seems to me that arguing about what is and isn't right in a marriage
>between a man and woman who live in a country which allows men to
>murder their wives when they're done with them is a rather-
>
>	moot point.
>
>Allow Pakistan to work on the simpler things such as their water
>system and their thousand diseases which are running rampant.  They
>are far from ready to work on things- social.  
>
>.


Are you from South Africa???

S.R.Raza.
From: samaddar@siemens.com (Sumitro Samaddar)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.pakistan
Subject: Re: Urban Sindh / CSS
Date: 21 Jul 92 02:58:02 GMT
Reply-To: samaddar@siemens.com

khan@ces.cwru.edu (Mansoor Khan) writes:

>of equal opportunity. This will mean people from Karachi
..
> will be able
>to compete on all the seats( not 2% khairaati seats) for Government,
>education institutions, S&T scholarships, Bank loans for business,
>and military.

Hey, come back to India. You can compete on more than 2%, kind of like
60% of open seats for most places.

>	When Pakistan was founded in 1947, two thirds of the Muslim ICS offficers who opted for pakistan were from those areas which never became part of 
>Pakistan. Rest were from Panjab. There were no Bengalis and there were no

Hey, come back to India. With muhajirs gone, the muslim share in those
areas has fallen. We need you to shore up the balance.

>	The story is too long. Any person who knows the history of PAkistan
>will remember the systematic elimination of muhajirs in Pakistan.

Hey, come back to India. Miandad can become captain of Indian cricket team,
and India can again win the hockey gold in Olympics :-) BJP leader Advani
can return to Karachi, and the Babri masjid will not be in danger.

Sumitro

Newsgroups: soc.culture.pakistan,soc.culture.indian
From: rachada@icaen.uiowa.edu (Ramakrishna Chada)
Subject: Re: ANOTHER JOKE, no offense!
Summary: HOW LONG CAN A MOUSTACHE GROW IN ONE WEEK ? 
Date: Fri, 24 Jul 1992 20:12:34 GMT
Organization: Iowa Computer Aided Engineering Network, University of Iowa

In article <1992Jul24.143342.3648@cbfsb.cb.att.com> onf@cbnewsg.cb.att.com (omar.farooq) writes:
>
>A Sikh newlywed couple is given a house in a village as a present.
>The village is mostly Hindu and Muslim,and they are the only Sikhs
>in the area.  Since they have just moved in, the house is mostly
>empty and bare.  
>
>So one day, the wife says:
>"Bazar ja kay ik almari thay laia!"
>
>The husband, perturbed at the reaction of the local people, decides to 
>wait a week and come back with a different look.  After one week, he
                                                   ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>has removed his beard and Sikh turban and grown a long moustache and
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>a regular turban with a long kurta and dhothi.  He then walks into
>the same store and says:

Removing beard is fine, but how long can anybody's moustache grow in one
week. With all sorts of records floating around, I am sure some one
will have the record rate at which anybody has grown a moustache.
Is there any ftp site for such info. :-) :-)

Ramakrishna Chada

Newsgroups: soc.culture.pakistan
From: usman@leland.Stanford.EDU (Usman Hameed)
Subject: HALLO HALLO   (was NATIONAL LANGUAGE)
Organization: DSG, Stanford University, CA 94305, USA
Date: Thu, 23 Jul 92 20:21:24 GMT

In article <1992Jul22.221955.18403@leland.Stanford.EDU> arkay@leland.Stanford.EDU (Abdur Khan) writes:

>why arabic, just because we are muslims, what utter rot. Lets just have punjabi
>as the national language as a large number of pakistani's speak it already.
>Arabic, if we learn arabic we might turn out to be like arabs, god forbid.
>
>sahibzada rafay khan[]


Hey Raf, I don't think you're allowed to say that because some
prophets apparently were of that persuasion.  You're just jealous 
coz they're rich, arrogant and get all the flake-head blonde and 
shia bachchis at CSU Long Beach.  And do us jamatoids a favor by 
using uppercase G for God.  

Furthermore, brother Hamza might be reading, and we know what 
happens when he gets pissed.  No more channel 54 for Kashmir House 
ttharkis.

Usman
From: sherwani@sol.cs.wmich.edu (Naveed Sherwani)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.pakistan
Subject: Re: Why Do We Propagate Our ReligionS
Summary: We propagate other things beside religion
Date: 24 Jul 92 20:55:29 GMT
Organization: Western Michigan Univ. Comp. Sci. Dept.

In article <1992Jul23.080418.22335@cc.uow.edu.au>, g9220348@cc.uow.edu.au (adil shaikh) writes:
> umnoor@ccu.umanitoba.ca (Nasir Ahmed Noor) writes:
> 
> >(As usual :-)) I was thinking and noted a phenomenon which I find very
> >interesting (now).
> 
> >Why do we so strongly propagate our religion?
> >It seems to be the man's nature to propagate his religion. There are other
> >beliefs that one has regarding different aspects of life and society and
> >culture and most often no body messes with you and you dont mess with
> >somebody, but as for as religious beliefs are concerned, most people are
> >ready to "go to the war" at any time. Don't know WHY?
> 
> >just a thought!
> 
> >--nasir
> >umnoor@ccu.umanitoba.ca
> 

Nasir Bhai:

 We do promote other things also. Examples include (in case of 
Pakistan), the caste/ethnic background. Some Punjabis only
marry within punjabi circles. 

 Religion is a one of the hazy things which are very hard to 
debate and even harder to compare and evaluate. They are 
designed to be like that. A very precise religion would be
rather useless (IMHO). I am not saying that in some negative
manner. I am just pointing out a basic assumption of almost
all religions. (I some ways it would be like having a very
precise astrologist)  

 Moreover, the idea that all of us propogate very heavily
our religion is not true for people brought up in more
liberal societies. Many educated american dont care about
your religion and would never bring up the subject, even if
they do have a religion. 

 Our societal makeup is different. We have been taught to believe 
that among many choices only one is correct. We apply this
rule to all aspects of our life. Being Engg. and Dr. is good
all other choices are bad. etc. One religion is good. One 
culture is good. One language is good. One skin color is good. 

 One thing we learn from more liberal societies that more than
one choice may be correct. If computer science is good for
me, it may not be good for you. May be you should be studying
swimming/football etc.  

 Once we learn the concept that more than one concept can be 
correct depending on the circumstances, we begin our new life
as a citizen of a tolerant society. A society which believes
in individual making his/her choices and others respecting 
those choices. 


regards,

-Naveed
 
Newsgroups: soc.culture.pakistan
From: usman@leland.Stanford.EDU (Usman Hameed)
Subject: Re: Regarding RAW-Mossad Nexus to Fight Terrorism
Organization: DSG, Stanford University, CA 94305, USA
Date: Thu, 23 Jul 92 22:09:25 GMT

In article <1992Jul23.193950.11543@news.uiowa.edu> abdutta@icaen.uiowa.edu (Abhijit Dutta) writes:
>|* RAW-Mossad Nexus Fights Terrorism  
>|
>|U.S intelligence officer confirms their training in Israel
>|
>|A crack battalion of Indian intelligence agents back from training in
>|Israel, a new found ally of India, is all set set to launch a major
>|counter-terrorism offensive against separatist forces in Kashmir,


Only time will tell if suppression, or should I say counter-terrorism,
is the solution to problems in Kashmir, Assam and E. Punjab.  Some
quarters naively feel a political resolution is necessary :-)   

Hum kiya jaaneiN.

Usman
From: ahasan@cae.wisc.edu (Ali Hasan)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.pakistan
Subject: Re: national language
Date: 22 Jul 92 16:56:23 GMT
Organization: U of Wisconsin-Madison College of Engineering

In article <samaddar.711750061@dumbo> samaddar@siemens.com writes:
>ahasan@cae.wisc.edu (Ali Hasan) writes:
>
>>	Faarsee was the language of the Mughal courts, Urdu was perpetuated 
>>	and supported by Firangis to try to take muslims away from their
>>	ruling past.
>
>Are you recommending Faarsee as the national language of Pakistan to take
>muslims back to their ruling past? Incidentally, how many Pakistanis have
>ancestors that were part of this ruling past? I mean, a high officer in the
>army, a governor of a province, etc.
>
>Sumitro

	My my... aren't we paranoid ;-)
	I don't think any of my ancestors were "rulers", I don't care
	even if they were, what is important is what *I* am, which,
	unfortuanately :-( is not much.

						--ali.

-- 
**********************************************************************
* Ali Hasan			Computer Aided Engineering	     *
* ahasan@cae.wisc.edu		UW-Madison.			     *
**********************************************************************
From: parimal@ccwf.cc.utexas.edu (Parimal)
Newsgroups: ut.general,soc.culture.pakistan
Subject: Airticket from Newark/NJ to Austin/Houston for sale
Date: 31 Jul 92 16:50:59 GMT
Reply-To: parimal@ccwf.cc.utexas.edu (Parimal)
Followup-To: ut.general
Organization: The University of Texas at Austin, Austin TX
Originator: parimal@dewey.cc.utexas.edu

I have two oneway  airtickets for sale from Newark, NJ to Austin, TX.

Tickets are on Continental Airlines for 25th of August, changeable at

$25. If you don't have luggage to check-in, these could be used for one

way travel to Houston also. Asking $75 each. If bought together $135.

Call (512) 476-7134. E-mail : parimal@ccwf.cc.utexas.edu 

			      parimal@alpha.iat.utexas.edu
Newsgroups: soc.culture.pakistan
From: nnk@surya.cs.wayne.edu (Nasir Khawaja)
Subject: Re: How formative years' education can ruin an adult male pakistani
Originator: nnk@surya.cs.wayne.edu
Organization: Wayne State University
Date: Fri, 24 Jul 1992 22:55:21 GMT

In article <1992Jul24.005951.9583@panix.com> ruthless@panix.com (Ruth Ditucci) writes:

[narration about how "a" Pak'stani was a total tyrant deleted]

Ms. Ruth, I'm sure you must have gone through quite a tough time
in your life working with this "fool" as you put it since evidently
you are so bitter from the experience that you made a blanket statement
including all adult male Pakistanis in your subject line. I'm sure 
that being a sane lady (I hope :), you did'nt mean to do that. I can
give you, right off the top of my head, at least twenty cases where I
had cause to belive that Americans were nothing more than filthy pigs
who would even cut their own children's throats when it would come to
monetary dealings. However, refraining from such behavior is exactly
what separates "us" from "them". I'm sorry that you had to go through
such traumatic period at the hands of a person from my country. But if
you're seeking an apology from this newsgroup, in return, please send 
us all emails asking forgiveness on behalf of all the Americans that 
have discriminated/foul mouthed/married-then-ran-away-with-another-
person/been a fool/tyrant to us.



PS: I'd really like to know what you sought to achieve by posting this...
    If it helped you vent out your bottled up anger, glad we could be here 
    for you ;) 
--                                            ____
Nasir Khawaja      ___  _ _ _    _ _    _____|____|___      ___ |
(nnk@cs.wayne.edu)    | | | | |\/   |   ___||| _|_| _|    _/__/ |  *
                      | |/_/  | \  _|   \| ||| \  | \  __/      |____/
From: brockus@usc.edu (Jeffrey Brockus)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.pakistan
Subject: Urdu/Punjabi Word
Date: 21 Jul 92 18:20:23 GMT
Distribution: na
Organization: University of Southern California, Los Angeles, CA
NNTP-Posting-Host: sal-sun66.usc.edu


  A friend of mine is going back to the subcontinent and we were 
planning a farewell for him. So can anyone email me:
what is the translation for "Good-bye" in Urdu and/or Punjabi.
TIA.


brockus@usc.edu
 
Newsgroups: soc.culture.pakistan
From: jakhan@IASTATE.EDU (Javed A Khan)
Subject: RE: National language
Reply-To: jakhan@IASTATE.EDU (Javed A Khan)
Organization: Iowa State University
Date: Tue, 21 Jul 1992 20:30:19 GMT

In article <1992Jul21.173814.15153@cbfsb.cb.att.com>, onf@cbnewsg.cb.att.com
(omar.farooq) writes:
> In Article 25942
> ----------------------------
> Article 25942 in soc.culture.pakistan:
> From: ahasan@cae.wisc.edu (Ali Hasan)
> Subject: Re: national language
> Organization: U of Wisconsin-Madison College of Engineering
> Date: 21 Jul 92 10:02:02 CDT
> 
> [....deleted...]
> 
>         NOT!!
>         Faarsee was the language of the Mughal courts, Urdu was perpetuated
>         and supported by Firangis to try to take muslims away from their
>         ruling past.
> 
>         You should have paid more attention in those urdu classes ;-)
> 
>                                                 --ali.
> 
> A point of quite important correction by Ali.  However, regardless of the
nature
> of Urdu's political/social implications in the Subcontinent's history, it
> was the language of the Muslims of India.  Urdu is a mixture of the
> pre-Islamic Hindu languages, Turkish, Pharsee, Arabic, and some Greek in
> Northwest Pakistan (Sikander's route).  So whether Urdu became popular during
> the decline of the Mughal Empire or it was a Farangi tool, it is a language
> which is indigenous to the subcontinent as a result of the inter-mingling
> of the Muslim influence from the West and North, and the local Hindu
> culture.
> 
> Just for the record: Urdu means army in Turkish (it's oldest influence is
from
                       ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

I thought the word Urdu meant a "camp".


> omar
>
From: jamalin@newton.ccs.tuns.ca (Nadeem Jamali)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.pakistan
Subject: Re: Muhajirs in Sindh (was Re: Urban Sindh's performance in CSS)
Date: 21 Jul 92 17:59:57 GMT
Distribution: na
Organization: Technical University of Nova Scotia, Halifax, N.S.

In article <samaddar.711667626@dumbo> samaddar@siemens.com writes:
>nadeem@igpho (Nadeem Malik) writes:
>

...... stuff deleted

>
>>History is about what was, not what might have been; once we start speculating
>>about what might have been then anybodies opinions can be taken. For example
>>one can equally well argue that Hindus left over in Pakistan may have kept all
>>business to themselves, rather like Jews in many parts of the world ... but 
>>this is not what happened!
>
>I am curious to hear the opinion of some Sindhi muslim on this. How much of
>the business "kept to themselves" by Sindhi hindus was actually given over
>to Sindhi muslims and how much of it was just taken over by the incoming
>muhajirs? Did anyone exploited by those 'hindu banias' benefit from the
>replacement?

"Muhajirs" were "considered" the most "deserving" "people".

>
>>It should not be forgotten that Karachi was not a big city before the partition.
>>It was the influx of Indian Muslims which made Karachi into Pakistan's premier
>>city.
>
>Why did most urdu-speaking Indian Muslims (muhajirs) head for Karachi? Where
>were most of the industry and/or educational institutions in Pakistan in 1947?

Sindh province was selected because the middle class was mainly constituted
by Hindus... rest of it is clear from what has been quoted from Dr. Agha's
posting. Karachi was selected because it was the most major city of Sindh.
In a public speech in one of the Hindu-majority states of India, Liaqat
Ali Khan has been quoted to have said something like: "Pakistan chalo...
jaibain bhar jaa'ai(n) gee(n). I'll leave finding the references to someone
else. I don't have specific references and admit this. I know that someone
will take this as an opportunity to make it the focal point of this posting
and put everything else in the background... just like Mr. Nadeem Malik 
did with my response to Dr. Shafqat's remarks.

My knowledge about industries may be limited, but I am aware that there were
very respected educational instuitions... many of which continue to be the major
institutions in Pakistan. Some of these institutions cannot be availed by
native Sindhis because they require a Karachi domicile...  and I need not 
mention that because of concentration of "muhajirs" in government offices
in Karachi, it is practically impossible for non-"muhajirs" to get a Karachi
domicile certificate, even if they were born in Karachi. This is evident from
the fact that many "muhajirs" use the term "muhajir quota" synonymously with
"urban-Sindh quota".

.....   stuff deleted

>
>Sumitro

Nadeem

-- 
Nadeem Jamali                                     jamalin@newton.ccs.tuns.ca
						 
School of Computer Science			  
Technical University of Nova Scotia		  (902)420-7882
From: bashir@ecn.purdue.edu (bashir)
Newsgroups: purdue.forsale,soc.culture.pakistan,soc.culture.india
Subject: apartment for rent for 1992-93
Date: 27 Jul 92 15:04:15 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: Purdue University Engineering Computer Network

I have a nice, 2 bedroom aprtment for rent for the year 1992-93. The lease
could start as early as august. Its a 2-bed room apartment in Williamsburg
on the Wabash. The rent is 505.00 per month and I will pay the deposit
which is a months rent and yours to keep. I will also help with phone
connection. It is close to campus with about a 12 minute walk. There is also a
 free bus service from the apartment to Campus(to all buildings) for the 
residents. It is right next to the river and has a nice view.
 
If interested please contact Rashid or Raja at 317-743-6142, 317-494-3464. This
news is being posted to different newsgroups in US to help new incoming     
students in Purdue this Fall. 

Rashid Bashir
Newsgroups: soc.culture.pakistan
From: onf@cbnewsg.cb.att.com (omar.farooq)
Subject: Urdu/Punjabi word
Organization: AT&T
Date: Wed, 22 Jul 1992 12:15:02 GMT

-------------------------
>Unless you consult an extensive English-Urdu lughat, I can onyl think of
>KhudaHafiz, or perhaps Ruqsat-ul-khair (more like Arabic style phrasing)
>                   or Ruqsat-e-khair (Persian phrasing).

If you place more faith on the fancy inscriptions on trucks in
Pakistan, then a popular one is "khair naal ja, tey khair naal aa."

Usman
-------------------------

wah bhaee wah, kee marya, thay kee chadiaa
Yes those truck and van drivers sure have a way with words!

Omar
Newsgroups: soc.culture.pakistan
From: obaid@ecf.toronto.edu
Subject: Re: Pakistani Olympic Athletes
Organization: University of Toronto, Engineering Computing Facility
Date: Tue, 28 Jul 1992 19:46:24 GMT

In article <1992Jul28.194254.3196@julian.uwo.ca> raza@surya.ccs.uwo.ca (Mr. Raza Syed) writes:
>In article <1992Jul28.181341.27875@ccu.umanitoba.ca> umnoor@ccu.umanitoba.ca (Nasir Ahmed Noor) writes:
>>
>>Last olympics, a Pakistani won a medal in boxing, did he make it this
>>time? If not, does any body know why?
>>Also what other events Pakistan is competing in besides field hockey?
>>There was another Pakistani who won a medal in wrestling in last olympics,
>>did he make it this time?
>>
>>--nasir
>>umnoor@ccu.umanitoba.ca
>
>No wrestler won any medal for pakistan in last olympics, only Hussain shah
>won bronze in boxing.
>

Did we not win any medals in yachting ?
In '84 olympics we won 1 or 2 gold medals in yachting.

NadeemS
From: ag3l+@andrew.cmu.edu (Arun K. Gupta)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.pakistan
Subject: Re: NATIONAL LANGUAGE
Date: 23 Jul 92 06:34:44 GMT
Article-I.D.: andrew.8ePgC4q00VAw8KU28L
Organization: Physics, Carnegie Mellon, Pittsburgh, PA


Actually this national language thing is another distraction.
A small country like Belgium has *TWO* languages, and has held
together for quite a while (look at your history books). It is
basically because no-one has felt the need to `uniformize' the
people. When you stop trying to do that, people stop viewing
each other with suspicion.

The myth of nation-building in India and Pakistan has been that
everyone must fit one mold. That is why our nations are moldy.

-arun gupta
Newsgroups: soc.culture.pakistan
From: khan@ces.cwru.edu (Mansoor Khan)
Subject: Teaching Positions in Karachi (Hamdard Univ.)
Organization: Computer Engineering and Science, Case Western Reserve University
Date: Wed, 29 Jul 92 05:08:01 GMT



	Job Opennings at Hamdard University, Karachi.
	---------------------------------------------

	The Hamdard Institute of Management Sciences, Hamdard Univ.,
Karachi, Pakistan, requires teaching staff in
	* Business Administration
	* Economics
	* Statistics
	* Public Administration
	* International Relations

	Applicants must have a Ph.D. in the relevant field. Three year
contracts and one or two visiting appointments available. Send cover letter,
resume, and off-prints to :
		Projects Coordinator
		Hamdard University
		Mohammad Bin Qasim Avenue
		Off Shahra-e-Madinat-al-Hikmat
		Karachi 74700, Pakistan
		Tel: (21)332434 Fax: (21)611755

Source:  IIIT/AMSS News Bulletin

Mansoor Khan
Cleveland.
Newsgroups: soc.culture.pakistan