HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: pmcdermo@cs.utexas.edu (Peter F. McDermott)
Newsgroups: rec.food.veg
Subject: Re: Song by CONSOLIDATED (was Re: "MANLY" food ***)
Date: 27 Jan 1993 03:19:23 -0600
Organization: CS Dept, University of Texas at Austin
NNTP-Posting-Host: rub-al-khali.cs.utexas.edu

In article <BARMAN.93Jan27000144@hatteras.cs.unc.edu> barman@hatteras.cs.unc.edu (Dilip Barman) writes:
>
>Yes, I think that song is by Consolidated.  Does anybody know much about
>this group?  I sampled one (or two?) of their CDs.  It does seem like they
>are into vegetarianism/animal rights, and the song by them I heard
>on the radio refers to "The Sexual Politics of Meat".  But from my quick
>listen to the CD, I couldn't tell if they were also into things like
>"white power" or if they were combatting such fascist ideas.
>
>      Dilip
>--
>  Dilip Barman
>  Dept. of Computer Science:		Home:			
>  University of North Carolina		5129 Oakbrook Drive
>  Sitterson Hall 365, CB 3175		Durham, North Carolina 27713-8005
>  Chapel Hill, North Carolina 27599	(919)493-6661
>  (919)962-1821, fax 962-1799

Dilip,
  I know a little about the group.  I saw them in concert two summers ago.  The 
concert was VERY interesting.  They had a sort of "half time" show where they
left and showed some videos on some TV's they had set up on the sides of the stage.
On the TV's they showed a meat packing plant and (if I remember correctly) talked
about it (voice over) of what was going on.  Geez, it was so long ago, they may
have been playing that "The animal experiences pain" track.  It was also a little
funny during "Typical Male" they showed men wearing condoms masterbating on the
monitors.  They sort of did a chest to knee caps view of the guys.  Also, if you
have (I think it's Product, which I believe (not sure) is their first CD) they
played "This is Consolidated"..well, whatever the last track on the CD is.. and 
changed the words from "Consolidated is not even a consumer product" to            
"Consolidated is now a consumer product".  They also passed the mic around after the
show to get input from people.  You may notice some of that stuff from the crowd 
made in on the Friendly Fascism album.  To answer your question, I suppose the best
way to describe them would be to listen to the beginning of Friendly Fascism.  The
announcer does a good job.  Something like "the biggest Vegetarian, Pro-Choice,
lesbian and gay supporin' mother f***ers from San Fransisco".
								Peter
								pmcdermo@cs.utexas.edu

-- 
-----------------------------
If it ain't broke, break it.
From: tara@starburst.umd.edu (Tara McDermott)
Newsgroups: rec.food.veg
Subject: VEGAN: Kale Cream Pasta Sauce
Date: 21 Jan 1993 23:52:28 GMT
Organization: University of Maryland, Chesapeake Biological Laboratory
NNTP-Posting-Host: starburst.umd.edu

Since Andrea asked for pasta sauces to replace red sauce (which I am
not very fond of), here is my favorite!

This is a recipe from Simply Vegan (Barbara's Kale Sauce):

Ingredients:
1 1/2 cup soymilk (preferably plain, but vanilla will do)
4-6 Tbsp. nutritional yeast
1/2-1 Tbsp. margerine (totally optional - there's no difference in
      taste I have found, and who needs the added fat?)
1/2 tsp. each:  dill, thyme, basil
1 1/2 tsp. garlic powder
1/2 tsp. salt
1/2 tsp. pepper (opt)
3 tsp. flour (ww will do; this is a rough amount.  Use to thicken, so
  the amount varies considerably on how you like it)
4 medium/large leaves of kale

Add everything except the kale and flour to a saucepan and stir.
Steam kale (or if you're making pasta, cook it in the boiling water
before you add the pasta) for about 1-3 minutes, depending on how
crunchy you like it.  Remove and cut up in small pieces.  Add to the
sauce.  Heat the sauce, and when it is fairly warm, start adding flour
slowly, so that it doesn't clump.  Whisk or stir constantly!  When you
have enough flour added, remove from heat, or serve immediately.  I've
found that this tends to burn quickly if left on a warm burner.

--
Tara McDermott               
tara@starburst.umd.edu       
I eat tofu, and I vote.
Newsgroups: rec.food.veg
From: ph@pencom.com (Patrick Hester)
Subject: Re: "The miracle of fasting" by Paul C. Bragg
Reply-To: ph@pencom.com
Organization: Pencom Systems Incorporated
Date: Thu, 21 Jan 1993 19:32:18 GMT

In article <C1471B.88v@dale.cts.com> npm@dale.cts.com (Nancy Milligan)  
writes:
> Cornelius Krasel (zxmkr08@studserv.zdv.uni-tuebingen.de) wrote:
> > In <1993Jan15.205536.9802@imagen.com> avi@seal.imagen.com writes:
> > 
> > >A water fast means, that nothing is consumed but water for the  
duration
> > >of the fast. That includes not only no food, but no juice, tea,  
coffee,
> > >soft drinks, etc. i.e. nothing but water (he recommends distilled  
water)
> >                                                          ^^^^^^^^^
> > 
> > I think your guts would not survive this. Consuming greater amounts of
> > distilled water is toxic, as it damages your intestine.
> 
> I don't understand.  Why would distilled water be toxic?  As I  
understand
> the process, distilled water is merely water that has been turned into
> vapor and then condensed back into water again.  It would just leave the
> heavy particles, like minerals, behind.  Why is that toxic?

OH! You have to let it cool and condense first?
Maybe that was the problem...

--
Patrick Hester   ph@pencom.com   (212) 513-7777   NeXT Mail OK   =8(\/\)
Newsgroups: rec.food.veg
From: ann@tessi.com (Ann Makarias)
Subject: Re: Children begining vegetarians 
Organization: Test Systems Strategies, Inc., Beaverton, Oregon
Date: Thu, 21 Jan 1993 21:52:19 GMT

mjs4709@ultb.isc.rit.edu (M.J. Solomon) writes:

>Do children need to have meat protein for their growing bodies or could
>other things be sustituted without indangering their growth.

Children do not need *animal* protein.  They do need a larger proportion
than adults however.

If children resist eating a variety of vegetables, vitamins are probably a
good idea.

Older children and adults benefit from a low fat diet, but young children
(under 2) do NOT.  In fact, they need fats in their diets for proper brain
development.  I have heard that egg yolks are an ideal "brain food" for
very young children, but I imagine that other fats could substitute.

I concurr with a earlier poster in recommending the nutrition section of
_The New Laurel's Kitchen_ as a reference.

Ann Makarias
Newsgroups: rec.food.veg,misc.health.alternative,sci.med.nutrition
From: zxmkr08@studserv.zdv.uni-tuebingen.de (Cornelius Krasel)
Subject: Re: "The miracle of fasting" by Paul C. Bragg
Organization: Comp. Center (ZDV) U of Tuebingen, FRG
Date: Wed, 27 Jan 1993 19:37:29 GMT

In <1993Jan20.011155.26889@spdcc.com> dyer@spdcc.com (Steve Dyer) writes:

>In article <1993Jan19.231511.4914@sol.ctr.columbia.edu> bobp@msi.com (Bob Pitha) writes:
>>  I think the idea is that if you drink distilled/deionized water, it
>>causes such a difference in ionic concentration between the insides and
>>outsides of the cells in your stomach wall that they burst from osmotic
>>pressure.

Exactly. As far as I know, the brush border cells of the intestine are not
very resistant against differences in osmotic pressure. Of course, a
teaspoonful of distilled water would do no harm to you. But the original
poster recommended the consuming of quite large amounts.

>Why, to get a snicker out of them?  It's utter nonsense.

Could you please elaborate on that?

--
/* Cornelius Krasel, Department of Physiological Chemistry, U Tuebingen    */ 
/* email: krasel@studserv.zdv.uni-tuebingen.de (Internet)   HAS CHANGED!!  */
/*        NO WIN/X400 MAIL POSSIBLE AT THE MOMENT!                         */
/* "People are DNA's way of making more DNA." (R. Dawkins / anonymous)     */
Newsgroups: rec.food.veg
From: kalin@cbnewsm.cb.att.com (andrew.j.kalinowitsch)
Subject: _Sexual Politics of Meat_/gender of meat animals
Organization: AT&T
Date: Mon, 25 Jan 1993 14:39:28 GMT


Aren't most of the animals raised for consumption by the meat
industry female (chickens vs. roosters, cows vs. bulls/steers,
etc.)?  This is an assumption on my part; i have no data to back 
it up.  Does anybody know if this is true, and if so, why?  Is
any mention of this made in _The Sexual Politics of Meat_?

andy
Newsgroups: rec.food.veg,misc.health.alternative,sci.med.nutrition
From: jnielsen@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (John F Nielsen)
Subject: Re: "The miracle of fasting" by Paul C. Bragg
Organization: The Ohio State University
Date: Fri, 22 Jan 1993 00:30:05 GMT

In article <1993Jan21.133330.6116@spdcc.com> dyer@spdcc.com (Steve Dyer) writes:


>I certainly didn't say that.  A typical 1200kcal/day diet won't lead
>to excessive protein loss if it contains adequate amounts of protein.

More accurately, carbohydrates or protein. After the body gets all
it's amino acids, extra protein consumption is not necessary.

>Ketosis tends to lessen the protein loss when you eat little or nothing;
>that doesn't mean that you're not better off eating something!


Sorry, I didn't make myself clear I wasn't trying to imply that. 

Have a good day

john
-- 
John Nielsen   MAGNUS Consultant            ______   ______   __  __	
jnielsen@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu         /\  __ \ /\  ___\ /\ \/\ \
                                           \ \ \/\ \\ \___  \\ \ \_\ \
  Back off man, I'm a Scientist!            \ \_____\\/\_____\\ \_____\
Newsgroups: rec.food.veg
From: don@helix.nih.gov (donald seto)
Subject: Re: Cold cooked rice - dangerous?
Organization: National Institutes of Health, Bethesda
Date: Wed, 27 Jan 1993 22:09:39 GMT

In article <1993Jan27.212544.16060@aber.ac.uk> ckw0@aber.ac.uk (Carl Keri Williams) writes:
>A friend of mine who has done a food hygeine course told me that cooked 
>rice is considered to be a 'danger food' and should be stored in the fridge
>and then reheated thoroughly to render it safe to eat.  I asked for more 
>specific details, but she wasn't really sure of the whys and wherefores of 
>it all, so I thought I'd ask the net.  Has anyone heard of this?  and if so,
>what is the problem?  Is it more dangerous than any other food, or is it just
>that it gets so taken for granted in cafes etc and left around to be reheated

sushi is made from cold cooked rice....people are more worried about the
dead meat on top than the cold cooked rice.  fried rice is traditionally
made with leftover, day(s)-old cooked cold rice.  there's lots of asians
around and walking, so it can't be that bad for you.

--
don@helix.nih.gov
301-402-0580   Bldg10/Rm8D14    NIDDK/NIH       Bethesda, MD  20892
Xref: sparky rec.food.veg:12650 misc.fitness:9907
From: betsys@cs.umb.edu (Elizabeth Schwartz)
Newsgroups: rec.food.veg
Subject: Re: A question from a vegetarian wannabe
Date: 27 Jan 93 04:13:41 GMT
Organization: University of Massachusetts at Boston

In article <1993Jan26.001607.19611@ee.gatech.edu> kevin@manilla.eecom.gatech.edu (Kevin West) writes:

>beings aren't designed to digest animal products.  I adapted a lacto-veg.
>diet, and I immediately started to feel better.  My concentration improved,
>and my stamina improved, also.  I became very relaxed, and my resting pulse
>dropped to 44 beats/min.
That sounds low, unless you are an athlete. Do you do a lot of
exercise, and have you had your blood pressure etc checked by a
physician?

>However, in December, 1991, I began to notice that I was losing weight.  I was
>already pretty thin, and didn't really need to lose any.  My face became thin
>and my friends and family became worried.  I also gradually developed an
>insomnia problem, and by the time this past December came around (1.5 years
>of being a lacto-veg.), I was rarely sleeping and was looking very unhealthy.

You'll probably get a lot of suggestions here for weight-gaining using
vegetarian foods, but I wonder, are you exercising? "The New Fit or
Fat" is a good reference. Although it is not very rigorous in its
scientific  analysis, it has some solid recommendations. Many people
can be skinny but still carrying a lot of fat because they don't have
much muscle. Exercise is also GREAT for helping regulate your appetite
and sleeping habits. 

It is certainly possible to get fat on a vegetarian diet. If you are
an ovo-lacto, eat lots of eggs and ice cream and chocolate and cheese
on everything. Vegans have to get into nuts,
nut-butter-with-extra-jelly sandwiches and date and fig cookies and so
on. Fry your veggies whenever possible, too. (I am NOT recommending
this, just saying it's possible to be a fat vegetarian) 
					
--
System Administrator                  Internet: betsys@cs.umb.edu
MACS Dept, UMass/Boston               Phone   : 617-287-6448
100 Morrissey Blvd                    Staccato signals
Boston, MA 02125-3393                      of constant information....
Newsgroups: rec.food.veg
From: mrb@cbnewsj.cb.att.com (m..bruncati)
Subject: Re: John Robbins New Book
Organization: AT&T
Distribution: na
Date: Mon, 25 Jan 1993 20:41:36 GMT

In article <1993Jan23.225200.6995@hellgate.utah.edu>, llarsen%peruvian.utah.edu@cs.utah.edu (Loren Larsen) writes:
> I just saw a book by John Robbins at the bookstore.  I can't even remember the
> title, and I don't mean "Diet for a New America".  Does anyone know what this
> is called and if it is any good.  What are the differences between DFANA?
> 
> Thanks
> Loren
> 

Loren,

I think it's "All May Be Fed".
I just finished reading it a few weeks ago.  I liked the book
very much.  The first part deals with our personal relationship
with food and then the second half is recipes.  I haven't really
made any of the recipes but I plan to.  (I'm currently - lacto-ovo
and am trying to slowly go vegan.)
It the book takes some info from DFNA but I never finished DFNA 
so I don't know how much more was taken from it.  There is also
a section on things that people can do right now to help the
current food situation.

What I got mostly out of the book is to "think" more about my
food and be thankful that I have it - plus I'm trying to eat
ALOT slower - seem to get more out of my food - I feel like
I have to - trying to go vegan I seem to eat a tremendous amount
of food but still feel hungry - any tips on making the
transition?  

I think the book is worth the read.



Michael
From: red_trek@drycas.club.cc.cmu.edu
Newsgroups: rec.food.veg
Subject: Tofu Spaghetti balls
Date: 24 Jan 93 11:26:16 -0500
Organization: Carnegie Mellon Computer Club

TOFU SPAGHETTI BALLS

1 pound tofu
1/4 cup walnuts, chopped or ground in dry blender
2 medium onions, minced
1/2 cup quick cooking oats
2 Tablespoons chopped parsley
1 teaspoon dried basil
1/2 teaspoon dill weed
1/2 teaspoon garlic powder
1/2 teaspoon thyme
2 Tablespoons soy sauce
1 Tablespoon corn starch
1/2 cup whole wheat flour
Vegetable oil, for browning
2 cups tomato or spaghetti sauce

Wrap tofu in cloth or paper towels for a few minutes to remove
excess water.  Mash and mix well with all ingredients except
oil and tomato sauce.  Form into 24 small balls and flatten slightly
as you place them in an oiled baking dish.  Sprinkle a little oil
on each.  Bake at 375 degrees for 20-25 minutes, turning once to
brown both sides.  Spread tomato sauce over balls.  Bake at
350 for an additional 15-20 minutes.  Serve over pasta or on
French bread as a sandwhich.
Newsgroups: rec.food.veg
From: levin@world.std.com (Levin F Magruder)
Subject: Re: Children... Milk is good food!
Organization: The World Public Access UNIX, Brookline, MA
Date: Thu, 21 Jan 1993 23:35:26 GMT

>Older children and adults benefit from a low fat diet, but young children
>(under 2) do NOT.

not really apropos, but you reminded me of my favorite usenet
witticism, from this very group:

"Milk is good food (if you're a calf and want to gain 500 pounds
this year)."

Anyone else notice the milk industry's changing jingoism?  15 years
ago or so, the slogan was "Milk, the perfect food."  Revised maybe
five years ago to "Milk is good food."  (Now dropped, I think,
in favor of "Milk.  It does a body good.")
From: young@clpd.kodak.com (Rich Young)
Newsgroups: rec.food.veg
Subject: Re: _Sexual Politics of Meat_/gender of meat animals
Date: 25 Jan 93 22:05:50 GMT
Reply-To: young@clpd.kodak.com
Organization: Clinical Diagnostics Division, Eastman Kodak Company
Originator: young@sasquatch

In article <1993Jan25.143928.13077@cbnewsm.cb.att.com> kalin@cbnewsm.cb.att.com (andrew.j.kalinowitsch) writes:
>
>Aren't most of the animals raised for consumption by the meat
>industry female (chickens vs. roosters, cows vs. bulls/steers,
>etc.)?  This is an assumption on my part; i have no data to back 
>it up.  Does anybody know if this is true, and if so, why?  Is
>any mention of this made in _The Sexual Politics of Meat_?

	As a matter of fact, I think it's just the opposite.  Females
	are generally used for non-destructive purposes such as egg and
	milk production, while males, one of which can fertilize many
	females, and which tend to be more aggressive, are used for meat 
	production.


-Rich Young (These are not Kodak's opinions.)
From: dbader@eng.umd.edu (David Bader)
Newsgroups: rec.food.veg
Subject: Re: RECIPE: Vegetarian Kishka
Date: 26 Jan 1993 13:26:20 GMT
Organization: Professional Student, University of Maryland, College Park
Distribution: world
NNTP-Posting-Host: mountaindew.eng.umd.edu
Originator: dbader@mountaindew.eng.umd.edu


In article <20044@mindlink.bc.ca>, Janet_Wilson@mindlink.bc.ca (Janet Wilson) writes:
>I apologize, but what are Tam Tams??

Since I've gotten personal mail asking the same thing.. I guess I had better
explain to all the shiksas and goyim here.. :)

Tam Tams are found in your "Jewish" section of the grocery store. They
are (usually?) Maneschewitz brand and in an orange box.  They are hexagonal
crackers very much like Matzah.  (i.e. you can also use Matzah, or Matzah Farfel
(broken up Matzah)..  Does that clear it up?? 

Ppppppps,
 david

Newsgroups: rec.food.veg
From: singh@leland.Stanford.EDU (Harinder Singh)
Subject: Veg. seeks room to rent in Palo Alto/Menlo area
Organization: DSG, Stanford University, CA 94305, USA
Distribution: ba
Date: Tue, 26 Jan 93 06:08:48 GMT


	Quiet vegetarian seeks room, preferably in
a vegetarian house, in the Palo Alto/Menlo Park area.

	Please call Tanya at (415)324-9966



	[no email please]

Newsgroups: rec.food.veg,misc.health.alternative,sci.med.nutrition
From: rackerma@ugly.UVic.CA (tisk)
Subject: Re: [Question] Side Effects of Valerian?agg
Organization: University of Victoria, Victoria, BC, Canada
Date: Sun, 24 Jan 93 19:53:54 GMT

I was wondering if anybody has a cure for the smell of this stuff (Valerian tea)
I tried this stuff but almost puked because of the smell.  (Something like
a cats litter box that had been left for a couple of weeks)

Thanks for any info.

Rob.
~r.signature


-- 
rackerma@sirius.UVic.CA   |
P.S. everything is IMOHO  |
     and probably very :) |
From: Janet_Wilson@mindlink.bc.ca (Janet Wilson)
Newsgroups: rec.food.veg
Subject: Re: RECIPE: Vegetarian Kishka
Date: 26 Jan 93 01:32:12 GMT
Organization: MIND LINK! - British Columbia, Canada

I apologize, but what are Tam Tams??
From: rfelix@netcom.com (Robbie Felix)
Newsgroups: rec.food.veg
Subject: Re: Hidden Fat In Packaged Foods
Date: 28 Jan 93 15:13:33 GMT
Distribution: world,local
Organization: Netcom Online Communications Services (408-241-9760 login: guest)

In article <35997@rnd.GBA.NYU.EDU> sbhattac@rnd.GBA.NYU.EDU (Shankar Bhattacharyya) writes:

>>Look, Shankar, I'm not trying to be rude, but this is getting out of
>>hand.  I cannot think of a *particular* brandname, but I have *definitely*
>>seen "96%" fat free products being sold that had well over 60% of their
>>calories coming from fat.

On alt.support.diet, where we all watch fat closely, there has been
plenty of discussion regarding these hot dogs and sausages. If anyone
is looking for a specific brand name, I recomend that you post an
inquiry there.

There are MANY fat free and almost-fat-free products becoming
available today. There are definitely VERY low fat hot dogs and
sausages available.

rf
Newsgroups: rec.food.veg
From: Janet_Wilson@mindlink.bc.ca (Janet Wilson)
Subject: Re: Comments on Male Eating Patterns
Organization: MIND LINK! - British Columbia, Canada
Date: Thu, 28 Jan 1993 22:38:26 GMT

I think most non-cooks find it really simple to just broil meat and mike
potatoes after work than plan a meal and prepare it. When I left home for
university, I had almost no cooking skills and kept cooking for 6, like my
mom did at our home. It took a dedicated interest in food, nutrition, and
cooking to learn new cooking and eating habits.
From: prabu@cs.utexas.edu (Prabu Muthu)
Newsgroups: rec.food.veg
Subject: yogurt & leather
Date: 25 Jan 1993 15:22:21 -0600
Organization: CS Dept, University of Texas at Austin
NNTP-Posting-Host: agave.cs.utexas.edu
Keywords: yogurt, leather, shoes

I've just got two questions for anyone who can answer them:

	1)  Is it possible to make good yogurt without using
		milk?
	2)  Where can one purchase dress shoes and basketball
		shoes which are good quality but don't use
		animal leather?  (in the U.S., that is)
		I know in some cities in India, there are
		stores which sell "ahimsa" shoes, which are
		made from leather taken off naturally dead
		animals.

Thanks,
Prabu

-- 
Prabu Muthu				prabu@cs.utexas.edu
Comp Sci/Philosophy
Newsgroups: rec.food.veg
From: Janet_Wilson@mindlink.bc.ca (Janet Wilson)
Subject: Re: Vegetarian Wannabe
Organization: MIND LINK! - British Columbia, Canada
Date: Tue, 26 Jan 1993 18:44:24 GMT

Were you perhaps eating a diet too low in fat?
How about your B vitamins, were they low?
Did you take a vitamin or mineral supplement while a vegetarian, or begin one
after you began to eat meat?

Newsgroups: rec.food.veg
From: rcj10@cus.cam.ac.uk (Craig Jamieson)
Subject: Julie's Pantry Casey Jones?
Followup-To: rec.food.veg, alt.mcdonalds, alt.mcdonalds.gripes
Summary: Best vegeburgers FATTIER than best meatburgers!
Keywords: fat gross plump pudgy obese immense jumbo McDeath saucy cheesey
Organization: U of Cambridge, England
Date: Tue, 26 Jan 1993 11:11:08 GMT

Article 508 of alt.mcdonalds:
Newsgroups: alt.mcdonalds
From: dplumb@cix.compulink.co.uk (Dave Plumb)
Subject: Fat content in Burgers                  
Cc: dplumb@cix.compulink.co.uk
Reply-To: dplumb@cix.compulink.co.uk
Date: Tue, 19 Jan 1993 20:03:00 +0000

Our "Which?" magazine (consumer related subscription mag) did a survey on the 
big UK burger outlets (McD, Wimpy, Burger King, and a few other UK specific 
outlets. 
 
The conclusion was that although the burgers aren't good for you in terms of 
fat content, the main culprits are the cheese and sauces put on afterwards. 
 
McDonalds consistantly came out top (that is, least fat content) on all 
counts, except for their fries, which were the worst. We don't have any of 
the lower calorie burgers over here, which is one criticism they make. They 
also say that though the chicken & fish variants should be better than the 
beef variety, because they're both deep fried the difference is marginal. 
 
The results are as follows: 
 
                  Average 
Product           Cal  Fat   Best          Cal/Fat    Worst          Cal/Fat 
Hamburger         260   10   McDonalds     225  6      all about the same 
Cheeseburger      305   15   McDonalds     270  7      all about the same 
Quarter Pounder   510   25   McDonalds     400 16     Snack Cafe     600 35 
Chicken Sandwich  415   20   McDonalds     370 15     Wimpy          485 29 
Fish Burger       415   20   McDonalds     330 12     Julies Pantry  515 28 
Bean Burger       495   20   Julies Pantry 435 15     Casey Jones    495 27 
Chicken Nuggets   415   25   Only McDonalds provided details 
Medium Fries      305   15                            McDonalds      335 21 
 
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Newsgroups: rec.food.veg