HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: sharen@iscnvx.lmsc.lockheed.com (Sharen A. Rund)
Subject: Re: Taurus tops Accord as #1 Seller in U.S. 
Keywords: Maybe it's a case of fleet vs. personal use...
Organization: Lockheed Missiles and Space Co.
Distribution: usa
Date: Fri, 8 Jan 93 20:21:18 GMT

In article <1993Jan7.180023.5597@novell.com> rjmathia@novell.com (Robert Mathias) writes:
>In article <1993Jan7.153441.10216@metter.fmpmis.metter.com> virgo@metter.fmpmis.metter.com (P. Virgo) writes:
>>
>>Anybody else heard about this?? Anybody got numbers to back this up??
>>Looking at the past few years of Taurus/Accord battles, the numbers that
>>made the difference were usually not that large---and if the Taurus has
>>unseated the Accord, it probably wasn't by much this time, either.
>>
>Honda Accord is still the number 1 seller for the general public.  Remove

only if you look at cars - if ford included their trucks (the top sellking
vehicle is the ford truck)

>Ford's fleet and rental sales, and Honda is still number 1 for the individual
>car buyer.  Having just said that, I also happy to see a come back by US
>Auto companies.  Whether Ford keeps this leadership will depend upon the
>cars they sold this last year.  If they proved to be quality cars, Ford
>should have a rosey future since they should get alot of repeat buyers.
>
>
-- 
________________       __        ________________   "They that can give up
\_________      \     /_ \      /      _________/  essential liberty to 
 \_________      \_____/  \____/      _________/  obtain temporary safety
  \___________________      __________________/  deserve neither liberty 
                     /______\                   nor safety."  
ALL disclaimers apply ....                           --Benjamin Franklin
From: mills@athena.lkg.dec.com (George Mills)
Newsgroups: rec.autos
Subject: Mail order tire companies?
Date: 8 Jan 93 16:56:07 GMT
Distribution: usa

I'd like to order 4 mounted snows for my 93 Grand-Am.
I've dealt with EuroTire in the past and all worked out fine.
But they don't sell U.S. rims.

Can someone recommend a good mail-order place that sells
(steel) RIMs and Tires (snows).
Newsgroups: rec.autos
From: bbenson@sscvx1.ssc.gov
Subject: Re: inaccurate spedometer?
Organization: Superconducting Super Collider Laboratory
Date: Tue, 12 Jan 1993 14:51:34 GMT

In article <C0Jv19.FKn@electra.alb.gvc.com>, marcg@electra.alb.gvc.com (Marc Gauthier) writes:
> Ive been starting to wonder about the speedometer
> in my '87 VW Fox. It seems that the accuracy declines 
> the faster I'm going. For instance, lately I've been
> ...
> I'm begining to think that the accuracy drops somewhere
> after 140 km/h. Is this possible? It's a mechanical device
> so it seems weird that it would follow some exponential
> curve of inaccuracy. Does anyone have any ideas?

Normal stock speedos are *NOT* precision instruments. They are generally
built to maintain a reasonable accuracy (+/-5%) within "normal driving
speeds", meaning in-city as opposed to highway cruising.

Stock speedos are not hard-coupled mechanical devices. Rather the cable
causes a magnet to spin. This causes the speedo needle to want to spin,
and it is restrained by a spiral spring. The balance between the torque
induced by the magnet and the force produced by the spring results in
the needle indicating something. Manufacturers then put a linearly marked
face behind the needle, approximating your speed. Sounds simple. BUT,
physics and engineering aside, the spring is made of physical matter
and is not a precision component. Hence, the spring rate is not even
linear - its not even constant over wide deflections. It tends to be close
over the 90-120 degrees of arc that covers low speed operation, but 
varies widely as the spring deflection increases - ie at higher operating
speeds.

Your Fox probably carries a VDO speedo. VDOs are usually reasonably
accurate up to about 100-110 kph / 65 mph. Above that, they tend to read
faster than you're really going. The VDO in my Audi reads about 10% fast
in the 100-110 mph range. Other VDOs I've tested read higher or lower -
your milage may vary. 

Bob Benson
Ralliest and Generally Strange Person
Purveyor of Custom Speedometers to the Great American Race

Newsgroups: rec.autos
From: virgo@metter.fmpmis.metter.com (P. Virgo)
Subject: Taurus tops Accord as #1 Seller in U.S. 
Summary: this is for the year, 1992
Keywords: Maybe it's a case of fleet vs. personal use...
Organization: Metters Industries, Inc.
Distribution: usa
Date: Thu, 7 Jan 1993 15:34:41 GMT


This morning, I heard on the radio that the Taurus had finally topped the
Accord as the best-selling car in the U.S.

Anybody else heard about this?? Anybody got numbers to back this up??
Looking at the past few years of Taurus/Accord battles, the numbers that
made the difference were usually not that large---and if the Taurus has
unseated the Accord, it probably wasn't by much this time, either.

Well, I guess congratulations are in order for Ford. Second time they've had
a #1 best-seller. Let's hope they DON'T screw it up for themselves...

Else, we'll give it to Mazda/Subaru...hehhehheh...

Comments/opinions/supporting data welcome--bash this about, fellows...

d.j. NetBoy
-- 

d.j. NetBoy
Metters Industries
Arlington, VA 22202
Newsgroups: rec.autos
From: viviana@igor.tamri.com (Vivian Aldridge)
Subject: Mini-van or utility vehicle...4WD vs gas mileage
Organization: TOSHIBA America MRI, South San Francisco, CA
Date: Mon, 4 Jan 93 15:40:57 GMT


Hi,
I'm in the market for a new vehicle, but can't seem to find
what I am looking for. I am looking for a utility vehicle
or mini-van that has a four wheel option meaning when I
drive in mild weather I can can use two wheel drive and
when I am driving in the the snow, I can switch to  four
wheel drive.

My other big concern is gas mileage. 15-18 miles per
gallon is not a spec I can live with. Are there any
vehicles that at least make 25 miles per gallon?

I'm also looking for a shorter vehicle as opposed to
a large vehicle. I live in San Francisco and parking
is difficult there if one owns a large car or truck.

I've read through consumer reports so now my last
hope is to discover info from my friends on the net.

Thanks!
Vivian
-- 
Vivian Aldridge				
		                       o__    
viviana@tamri.com	       	      _.>/ _  Bay Area 
                		     (_) \(_) Commuter
Newsgroups: rec.autos
From: rjwade@rainbow.ecn.purdue.edu (Robert J. Wade)
Subject: Re: Sports Car Opinions Wanted
Organization: Purdue University Engineering Computer Network
Distribution: usa
Date: Tue, 12 Jan 1993 18:58:35 GMT

In article <9068@lee.SEAS.UCLA.EDU> riggert@mott.seas.ucla.edu (Eric F. Riggert) writes:
>My girlfriend has decided to make her next car some sort of sports car
>or roadster (now, before she has kids or otherwise would feel too
>guilty if she splurged on herself like that.... :)   )
>
>She is currently looking at the Mazda MX-3 (V6), Honda Civic del Sol Si,
>Eagle Talon Tsi AWD (did I get that right?), and the Toyota MR2 Turbo.
>Her personal preference is currently the MR2, based mostly on looks and
>options she's aware of (this is also the most expensive - figures).  The
>only car she's actually test driven is the MX-3, which she felt was very
>quick (this is mostly due to the fact that she currently drives an 84
>Sentra :) ), but the styling is sort of quirky (esp. just behind the doors,
>and it looks MUCH better with a spoiler, in Her opinion).  I think she's
>considering the del Sol mostly because it's so new/different.  The MR2
>and Talon are more in line with her performance preference (actually, what
>she would REALLY like is a new 300ZX or RX-7) but not with her pocketbook.
>
>Thanks!
>--= Eric =--
>

for the low end have her check out a sentra se-r.  also the celica, diamond-
star cars and nissan 240sx will be all new for 1994 and they will arrive early
in 1993 as 94 models...so if she can wait 3-6 months she will have more choices.
the mr2 is being dumped..so *maybe* you can get a good deal on a 93...or
maybe they won't deal if demand is high.  the honda del sol si and mx-3 
are underpowered and overpriced(imo, just drive them...i was very unimpressed
by these cars and shocked at their sticker prices).  also check out the 
ford probe gt and mazda mx-6(same car..but thousands more).

Newsgroups: rec.autos
From: hanson@tss.com (Hanson Loo)
Subject: Tricks for cold weather?
Reply-To: hanson@tss.com (Hanson Loo)
Organization: Teknekron Software Systems. Inc.
Date: Thu, 7 Jan 1993 17:38:38 GMT

What's the best trick you've seen for keeping 
locks from freezing in cold weather? I've 
heard about squirting chemicals in the locks,
but can't remember what chemical. My second
question is what's the best trick for unfreezing
them after they are frozen? We are experiencing
some unusually cold weather at our ski areas and
the best snow in years. Needless to say, I 
experienced some of those lock problems last
weekend. Thanks in advance.

         Hanson
From: patrick@csdvax.csd.unsw.edu.au
Newsgroups: rec.autos
Subject: Re: Car dealers
Date: 6 Jan 93 11:09:06 +1000
Organization: University of New South Wales

In article <1993Jan5.043301.23028@leland.Stanford.EDU>, underdog@leland.Stanford.EDU (Dwight Joe) writes:
> 
> By the way, I would suggest to Mr. Tipirneni that he avoid the Toyotas in
> the future.  He should voice his opinion (of the Toyota sales experience)
> with his pocketbook.
> 

Toyota dealers have nothing to do with Toyota. Toyota is a manufacturer
_not_ a vendor. This is why you will find dealers who think of their 
dealership as their own buisness, take pride in it, and therefore try for
total customer satisfaction throughout the sale and after sale service 
(my local Toyota dealership for example, which is owned and run by a well known
local family). There are other dealers that don't really care about sales
or customers or much else because they know (1) Toyota will never go out of
business in their lifetime and (2) The individual doesn't matter anyway because
for every customer you can't sell a small profit margin new vehicle to, you can
always rip off another on a big profit margin used vehicle and (3) There is
always a fleet contract to be had somewhere.

Unfortunatly this is the way it is and the correct way to voice an opinion
is not against Toyota but against the dealer - find a good dealer.

The corporate headquarters is unlikely to be Toyota (Here in Australia for 
example the company is Australian - AMI/THEISS) and make all their own
decisions. Only _major_ planning/financial decisions are made by Toyota.

And BTW, Toyota _IS_ interested in the customer and hearing about problems
you can't get past the corporate headquarters.
From: scott@psy.uwa.oz.au (Scott Fisher)
Newsgroups: rec.autos
Subject: Re: Why is US engine technology so retrograde?
Date: 11 Jan 1993 08:39:16 GMT
Organization: The University of Western Australia
NNTP-Posting-Host: wapsy.psy.uwa.oz.au

Why not have large capacity "high tech" engines like 5.0 L DOHC quad
valve EFI V8's a-la Porche stuff...or how about reeeealll old technology like my
4.2L DOHC EFI 6 cylinder in my Jag.  The XK engine first appeared in 1948
then FORD brought Jag out....then Jags started looking BORING :-)

Regards Scott :-)
_______________________________________________________________________________
Scott Fisher [scott@psy.uwa.oz.au]  PH: Aus [61] Perth (09) Local (380 3272).                
                                                             _--_|\       N
Department of Psychology                                    /      \    W + E
University of Western Australia.      Perth [32S, 116E]-->  *_.--._/      S
Nedlands, 6009.  PERTH, W.A.                                      v       

Joy is a Jaguar XJ6 with a flat battery, a blown oil seal and an unsympathetic 
wife, 9km outside of a small remote town, 3:15am on a cold wet winters morning.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: mills@athena.lkg.dec.com (George Mills)
Newsgroups: rec.autos
Subject: Re: GM Paint peels!
Date: 7 Jan 93 18:58:58 GMT


Giving GM the benifit of the doubt that this probably not a quality
issue.

I had a friend fairly High up at GM tell me this. That the enviromental
impact of painting cars is incredible. In fact GM is only allowed to
paint so many car red and so many cars green etc. Because different
colors cause more polution than others. All U.S. car makers are always
trying to make the paint better AND meet E.P.A.

My guess is that they probably leaned too much toward the E.P.A. in those
years and lost a little on how well it stood up. They surely didn't use
cheap paint as most U.S. auto-maker bashers are probably thinking.

The gelcoat on many boats blister for the same reason and I have one :-(.

Maybe if they made cars smaller they would not have so much to Paint :-)
Newsgroups: rec.autos
From: chuangss@en.ecn.purdue.edu (Shyne Song Chuang)
Subject: Re: Will there be a 94 MR2???
Organization: Purdue University Engineering Computer Network
Date: Mon, 11 Jan 93 15:50:46 GMT

In article <jburney.726346211@hydra.nodc.noaa.gov> jburney@hydra.nodc.noaa.gov (Jeff Burney) writes:
>dhukill@esprit.prime.com (Dave Hukill) writes:
>
>>was not going to be produced after 199? (I don't remember the year). I thought
>>it was the 1993 model year, but that's obviously not true. Anyone hear
>>anything else?
>
>According to several mags. and the Washington car show people, 1993
>is the last year for the MR-2.  Mainly due to its sluggish sales;
>only about 9500 units produced last year.
>

According to the latest issue of R&T, the MR2 will be replaced by a new
front engine, rear wheel drive car to be released in Tokyo in late 93.
The unaspirated enginer develops 220 hp and the turbo engine gives 240 hp.

Kevin
From: neff@diva.Berkeley.EDU (Robert Neff)
Newsgroups: rec.autos
Subject: Re: Taurus #1 in US
Followup-To: rec.autos
Date: 7 Jan 1993 18:07:03 GMT
Organization: University of California, Berkeley
NNTP-Posting-Host: diva.berkeley.edu
Summary: Market share is very important

In article <buck.726418367@granite> buck@granite.ma30.bull.com (Ken Buck) writes:
>dbernard@clesun.Central.Sun.COM (Dave Bernard) writes:
>>According to last year's sales figures, Taurus edged out the Accord as 
>>the US's top-selling car model, and Ford wasted no time in giving itself
>
>all this stuff about "who sold the most" is kind of irrelevant anyway.
>more importantly, what's the company's bottom line?  it doesn't matter
>how much you sell if you're losing money hand-over-fist.  (and as the
>recent Time (tm) magazine article pointed out, Japanese mfgrs. are
>not doing that well these days either, so it seems like everybody's
>in a similar boat...)
>

Ken,

I think you are understating the importance of market share.
Certainly in this country we concentrate on how much money a company
is making in the latest quarter, and probably have to much of a 
focus on short term profits.  In the long term, the market share
you fight for today is the market share which insures your long
term profits.  Japanese companies have been willing to lose money
in the past in the consumer electronics and semiconductor industries,
but today make large profits and can finance new technology from those
sectors (I am thinking of TVs and DRAMs).

I would tend to agree, that in Ford's case, the motivation was to be
able to brag about the best selling car in America for 1992 in their
1993 advertising, as well
as market share and over-supply reasons.  The end of year promotions
cost them something like $2500/car.  Sounds like it was a good time
to buy one.

-- Robert
From: chapman@centerline.com (Scott Chapman, (Scott Chapman x233))
Newsgroups: rec.autos
Subject: Dealer prep
Date: 8 Jan 1993 17:44:15 GMT
Organization: CenterLine Software
Distribution: world
Reply-To: chapman@centerline.com
NNTP-Posting-Host: divine.centerline.com


In article 1ike41INNf4r@usenet.INS.CWRU.Edu, ah190@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Stuart Pearl) writes:
>
>
>When the manager arrived he seemed exasperated with me and immediately
>added $250 for dealer prep.  Naturally, he also attacked my "dealer
>invoice" price list.  "There's no way I'm going to pay for a $250 car
>wash," was my response.  I thought so-called dealer prep went was a
>thing of the past.
Nope, Dealer prep is not a thing of the past, nor is it simply a car wash
as you put it. Generally, the dealer has certain responsibilities to
"finish" the car before you drive, among these are installing any
dealer installed equipment (sometime the air-conditioner is dealer installed).
They are also supposed to do other useful things like balance your
tires, and align your wheels. Most cars do not come from the factory
ready to drive (as far as I know).

>
>He insisted that even on an ordered car the mechanic had to assemble
>the roof rack (true, but that's in the price of the car as far as I'm
>concerned) put on the wheel covers ( he tried to sell the alloy wheels
>which don't have wheel covers) and wash that "special solution" off
>the car with solvent after arrival.  "What special solution is that?"
>I asked.  "We put that on the car at the factory to protect it during
>transport.  You wouldn't want to have to clean it off yourself would
>you?"  What was this guy talking about anyway?
I think the solution he was talking about is what many car manufacturers
put on their cars before they leave the factory. It is a waxy substance which 
protects the finish from the elements. I have seen it before on Hondas, it looks
like nasty stuff, but trust me, when it is removed, the car looks great.

>
>The whole process was insulting to me - the fact that we'd done our
>homework well just seemed to incense the hell out of them.  But
>the biggest B.S. was that high dealer prep; isn't that just pretty
>much an "add on" these days to jack up profit?
Have them itemize the dealer-prep if you think it is too high. In most
cases it is not *that* bad, once you know what they have to do.
                                  |
                    Scott Chapman | chapman@centerline.com
              CenterLine Software | (617) 498-3230
                   10 Fawcett St. | (617) 868-6655 (FAX)
              Cambridge, MA 02138 | (Centerline was formerly Saber Software)
                                  |


Newsgroups: rec.autos
From: rjwade@rainbow.ecn.purdue.edu (Robert J. Wade)
Subject: Re: Skylark and LeBaron feedback needed
Organization: Purdue University Engineering Computer Network
Date: Tue, 12 Jan 1993 16:51:49 GMT

In article <1993Jan12.025656.12364@noose.ecn.purdue.edu> flohr@ef.ecn.purdue.edu (Thomas J. Flohr) writes:
>I'm in the market for a sporty coupe and have narrowed my search
>down to the Buick Skylark GS and the Chrysler LeBaron hardtop.  
>I'm particularly fond of the styling of these two cars and I feel
>they have better acceleration and handling characteristics than
>other cars in their class.  It's a toss up though between the two.
>I would appreciate e-mail from any of you with feedback on these 
>two cars.  
>
>Tom Flohr
>flohr@ecn.purdue.edu
>

i don't believe it...here is the one person on the planet that likes the 
new skylark snoutmobile!!!  ;)  skylark sales are down 64% since the design
change.
From: lcheng@watson.ibm.com
Date: Thu, 7 Jan 93 16:14:18 EST
Newsgroups: rec.autos
Subject: Re: 4-valve heads in Corollas vs. VWs (was Re: AudiWatch Update


eliot@stalfos.engr.washington.edu writes:

>in a sense, yes.  but you should also give credit to manufacturers who
>can market successfully an otherwise dead idea.  audi gets almost all
>the credit for bringing all-wheel drive into the public consciousness,
...
>i don't know who is responsible for the current widespread use of 4
>valve heads (perhaps everybody), but to give exclusive credit to its
>inventor only is also quite ridiculous.

Agreed.  And it should be remembered that refining an idea can take
just as much engineering creativity as coming up with the original
idea in the first place.  The Wankel wasn't invented at Mazda, but
you can be sure that they did some very good work in developing the
apex seals - and certainly should be credited with keeping the Wankel
alive today.

As Eliot points out, Lotus !> VW !> Toyota because Lotus had 4-valve
per cylinder first, nor is Peugeot >> everyone else.  It's simply not
a valid argument.

- Lawrence Cheng
  lcheng@watson.ibm.com

Newsgroups: rec.autos,rec.autos.tech
From: vwelch@ncsa.uiuc.edu (Von Welch)
Subject: Re: Braking techniques 
Organization: Nat'l Ctr for Supercomp App (NCSA) @ University of Illinois
Date: Tue, 5 Jan 1993 17:34:58 GMT

In article <C0E5H1.8vC@news.cso.uiuc.edu>, bsmg9810@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (Bhaskar S.Manda) writes:
|> 
|> Although some posters (& I) agree with the fact that you can lock wheels
|> using either method, I still fail to see why the road conditions are involved
|> with engine braking. 

It's the same as squealing your tires under hard accleration, the engine exerts
a force on the wheels that's greater that the friction from tire/road contact
If you don't see how road conditions are involved in engine braking then please
explain on how you think the car is slowed by engine braking. I think if you
think it through you'll figure it out.

-- 
Von Welch (vwelch@ncsa.uiuc.edu)	NCSA Networking Development Group

- I speak only for myself and those who think exactly like me -
Newsgroups: rec.autos
From: tmr@wdl1.wdl.loral.com (Tim Ryan)
Subject: F150 Transmission Shifting?
Organization: loral western development labs
Distribution: USA
Date: Mon, 4 Jan 1993 16:04:30 GMT

Happy New Year to all!
I've got a puzzeling problem, every time I take my F150 on a long trip the 
truck begins to act weird, it won't down shift when braking. The RPM's
stay at 1600, and it very hard to stop a 5k pound truck when the engine is
at 1600 RPM's, also when driving if you take your foot off the gas the
truck doesn't slow down, it stays at what ever speed you were driving at.
This is very frustrating and dangerous especialy in the snow.

It usualy stop doing it the next day, after letting it sit over night.

I've taken it to the dealer 3 times and each time the truck starts running 
properly. And the deealer can't find anything wrong with it. And of corse
I usualy travel on the weekends, and of course the dealer said, bring it in 
as soon as it starts to act up, but the there not open on weekends@!#$%^##.

Got any Ideas? anybody have a simular problem?
I thinks its a Tempature/Vacuum/Computer Control related problem

Thanks ahead of time.
Tim
Newsgroups: rec.autos
From: issa@cwis.unomaha.edu (Issa El-Hazin)
Subject: Re: LH: Should I or Shouldn't I?
Organization: University of Nebraska at Omaha
Date: Mon, 11 Jan 1993 01:24:06 GMT

tquinn@heartland.bradley.edu (Terry Quinn) writes:


>> Several Americans gripe that American car companies don't produce the
>> cars they want.  The American company then produces a car that's right on
>> target (like the LH), then the same people say "well, it's not proven".
>> These folks never think an American car company can produce world class
>> product.  Seems that the term "America basher" is appropriate for 
>> this type of person.
> 

There are American bashers as well as Import bashers. It seems that
there are more of the later than the former (IMHO). The buy American
campaign, I think, brought more of this out. 

The LH is a great car (about time), but not everybody is going to go
nuts over it. IMHO, the Camry (esp. with a V6) would be my choice over
it.

> 
>HERE, HERE, Tom!!  
> 
>It is about time that close-minded, unpatriotic, _EXCLUSIVELY_ 
>import car owners were called what they are!   

Why when somebody claims that American cars are better they always
have to say these PATRIOTIC things within the same breath. 
Can't American cars stand on their own behalf? Is this the strongest
argument they have for why American cars are better? 

Just an observation.

issa

Xref: sparky rec.autos:31310 rec.autos.tech:17593