From: uunet!infmx!hartman@ncar.UCAR.EDU (Robert Hartman)
Newsgroups: soc.feminism
Subject: Re: Mythopoetic ritual (a possibly Very Weird topic)
Date: 16 Dec 1992 06:14:05 GMT
Organization: Informix Software, Inc.
Distribution: world
NNTP-Posting-Host: remarque.berkeley.edu
Originator: muffy@remarque.berkeley.edu

In article <1ge9maINN6h3@agate.berkeley.edu> farthing@leland.Stanford.EDU (ljf) writes:
>In article <1g969kINN9vv@agate.berkeley.edu> vanhoek@bend.UCSD.EDU (Karen van Hoek) writes:
>>It does seem very sad that the notion "phallus" has become
>>so strongly identified with "weapon" that the thought of a
>>men's movement which emphasizes celebration of the phallus
>>is scary.
>
>The problem I see is that for a long time, it's been the male side of
>our culture that has been identifying the phallus as a weapon.  When
>feminists note this and use the same language, it's suddenly
>misandrist and male-bashing.

Indeed.  That's why I'm always careful to identify the problem as one of
male culture, and not of men per se.

>Take, as one example, much of Norman Mailer's work.  Would anyone,
>male or female, want to be on the receiving end of the penis of most
>of his male characters?  His characters do seem to see the phallus as
>a weapon, only rarely used in acts of love, usually used as a means to
>power and domination of partners, whether male or female.  Is Mailer
>misandrist to see the phallus as mostly a tool to dominate others?

Those representations of his certainly are misandrist.  Men and women
both carry and propagate mysogynist as well as misandrist values.
That's where the value of male-only and female-only consciousness
raising sessions comes in, as well as joint consciousness-raising
work.  It's demanding work that requires rock-bottom honesty and a
willingness to bear grief.

>There is also the simple fact that during a rape by a man, often the
>penis is used as a weapon, along with fingers and objects.  If as many
>women are sexually abused as some studies suggest, no wonder some
>view the phallus as a weapon, at least some of the time.  When a male
>rapist is using it as a weapon, of course it is.

Although one cannot compare this with the trauma of rape, it is also
true that when women use the conditional rationing of sexual favors as
a means to control the behavior of men--as our "glorious" culture
prescribes--female sexuality is also being used as a weapon.  To me,
this is one of the legitimate grievances men do have.  But please note
clearly that I am talking about _behavior_ sanctioned by _conventional_
_women's_culture,_ not _women._

>>  What if,
>>as part of the Great Phallus celebration or whatever, the men 
>>took some time to mourn the way that the penis has been
>>identified as a weapon, and how that way of thinking about
>>masculinity has separated men from women? 
>
>This seems reasonable to me, but I hope that the men involved in these
>groups are identifying the source of "phallus as weapon" and not just
>putting the blame on feminists and women who complain about rape.  

Absolutely!  This is imperative.  Otherwise the men's movement will
become just another mysogynist fad.

> ... If
>our culture celebrates the phallus as a weapon and the expression of
>male (hetero)sexuality as a god-given right (regardless of what his
>partner wants), it's no wonder that women and feminists consider this
>celebration as shameful.

No kidding.  In my admittedly limited experience of men's-movement
activities, a great deal of effort is spent debunking that myth.

-r


-- 
Post articles to soc.feminism, or send email to feminism@ncar.ucar.edu.
Questions and comments should be sent to feminism-request@ncar.ucar.edu.  This
newsgroup is moderated by several people, so please use the mail aliases. Your
article should be posted within several days.  Rejections notified by email.