From: snail@lsl.co.uk
Newsgroups: uk.misc
Subject: Re: Transport subsidies - Was: Car Parking
Date: 21 Dec 92 19:34:09 GMT
Distribution: uk
Organization: Laser-Scan Ltd., Cambridge

In article <NaRXVB30w165w@mantis.co.uk>, mathew@mantis.co.uk (mathew) writes:
> snail@lsl.co.uk writes:
>> In article <Ps4TVB21w165w@mantis.co.uk>, mathew@mantis.co.uk (mathew) writes:
> Yes, by paying per-use tolls, walking, or using my bike.  Maybe I just
> don't need to go places as much as some people... although I seem to
> remember not too many years ago it was odd for people to travel
> outside of their local village.

And I suppose the office you work at just happens to be in the same village
as where you live, assuming you still recognise that cambridge is constructed
of many villages. And you never travel to any other villages? Be real.

> The people who have money will presumably have health insurance.
> Those who can't afford it are the ones who will need charity or free
> health care.
> 
> Suppose you have an NHS.  Anyone can "join" by paying the equivalent
> of National Insurance.  Members are entitled to free medical
> treatment.  Non-members who cannot afford National Insurance payments
> are also entitled to free medical treatment, paid for by members.
> 
> Do you think that would work?  If not, why not?  (I think I'd choose
> to get my healthcare that way.  Would you?)

You've just described the NHS. It'll be nothing like that (looking at current
free market private health care) when you have no NHS and private blood 
suckers like Bupa in full flow (rather than the little operations they run
now).

>> > Why is it you assume you need to have a built road (and therefore pay a tol
>> > in order to cycle or walk?
>> 
>> Ever tried walking across the penines, or across a fen? Or even across a fiel
>> in winter?
> 
> When have you ever *NEEDED* to travel across (rather than around) the
> Penines?  Or the fens?

I haven't. But I was refused access to a road near my house, then to get
anywhere outside my village would entail crossing streams, fens, and in two
extreme cases, rivers. There are one or two footbridges, I am lead to
believe, but not many.

>> >> I regard toll roads are more selfish, since it removes peoples individual
>> >> freedom (that word again) of movement - unless of course they have that ke
>> >> ingredient MONEY.
>> > 
>> > Try not having any money for a year.  See how freely you can move.
>> 
>> Precisely my point. Maybe you do understand the argument. 
> 
> In the 'real world', very few people have *no* money.  Even homeless
> people have *some* money, just not 'enough'.  Are you really talking
> about people with *no* money?

Oh sorry, he's got 5 pounds sterling. That'll buy him a hospital bed for, um,
lets think.. 1000 pounds a week, oh I dunno, we'll give him an hour. Be real.

>>                           Money is power, and they'll have more power under
>> the schemes fofp (and now you) advocate.
> 
> Again, I say: only if people give them that power.

If you have enough money, you can buy people. Simple. You can also pay for
people to be bullied, threatened, beaten up, all done by someone not connected
with you. All it takes is money. Again, I say: Money is power.

Ever had your car filled with concrete by someone unknown to you? Neither have
I. But I have heard a story about it happening (as revenge) to a nasty person.
Pretty OTT I admit, and no one got hurt, just a BMW getting trashed and
some hells angels getting some beer.....
-- 
snail@lsl.co.uk      

"Washing one's hands of the conflict between the powerful and the powerless
 means to side with the powerful, not to be Neutral."
                                                     Quote by Freire.
                                                     Poster by OXFAM.