From: vlaad@Eagles.uucp (Vlaad Thunarsson)
Newsgroups: alt.pagan
Subject: Re: pagan self-defense
Date: Tue, 08 Sep 92 09:44:23 CDT
Organization: Eagles Reaches Church of Asatru - Elder Hof

cortese@skid.ps.uci.edu (Janis Maria Cortese) writes:

> In article <eq0RqB5w165w@brewich.hou.tx.us> donal@brewich.hou.tx.us (Donal) w
> >radzy@ICSI.Berkeley.EDU (T. O. Radzykewycz) writes:
> >[...]
> 
> However, you get the gun, load it and keep it handy, and one day a
> neighbor kid takes it out and wastes Junior with it.  Or perhaps Junior
> takes it out and wastes the neighbor kid, causing you to feel like slime
> for th erest of your life, as well as having a big nasty lawsuit to
> makes matters worse when the neighbors drag your ass in court as guilty
> of endangering their kid's life by leaving a loaded gun where kids could
> find it a play with it.

While there are no absolute guarantees, this really can be avoided.  Take
junior hunting one day and kill something. (please not just for this purpose,
please use it in some way -food, jewelry, sacrifice to your gods, etc) Show
junior exactly what dead is.  Have junior try to get the animal to move or
react on it's own.  Then say something like "See what happens when animals
are shot with guns, junior?  They die.  They never come back.  They die.
the very same thing happens when PEOPLE are shot with guns.  Now, do you 
think guns are toys?"  I think you get the point.  Proper instruction,
discipline, and lack of novelty will keep junior out of trouble with the
instrument.  You can also at this time cover what to do if junior is at a
friend's house who has a gun, or his friend finds YOUR gun. (Keep the dead
animal within sight the entire time.  He/she will get he point.)

> them just too damned dangerous.  They are all one way or all the other
> -- you either keep them loaded and capable of killing 100% of the time
> or they are owrthless little hunks of cast-metal.

This is entirely true.

> There just isn't a resolution for this question, especially if you have
> kids in or around your house at any time.  

I think I covered that, unless you doubt your ability to get junior to 
understand the above. (no flames please)

> 
> >Did you know that the average exchange of gunfire takes place at less 
> >then 12 feet and takes less then 4 seconds?
> 
> Many of these exchanges are taking place TOO quickly, due to the fact
> that sometimes -- and this is just too fucking bad for the NRA types --
> the existence of guns does sometimes promote their use.  You lose your
> temper, pick the thing up, and it acts so quickly that your freedom of
> choice is effectively negated.  Before you have time to cool down and
> think rationally, someone has been killed.  Guns are just too big a can
> of worms for anyone to take a concrete stand on whether they should be
> in the house or not. 

True, but when you go out to the shed and get your bullets, then go to the
sock drawer and get your gun, then load it, etc.   What if the offender is
bigger than you...you'll never make it to the shed.  What if you do?  That
is called PREMEDITATED murder; not the likely man slaughter charge you 
*might* (but not likely) face.  Keep this in mind - The offender is in your
home.  You are the only witness.  As ugly as this sounds: Dead men don't 
testify, and your word is the only word that will be heard.  I have seen
police officers TELL a person what to say on the report to keep them out of
jail in situations JUST like you mention.  BTW- I assume you mean this 
incident would happen in the home, as it is illegal (in Texas) to carry a 
firearm unless you are: 1) A security officer on, at, or coming from work, 
2) a cop, or 3) travelling over more than 2 county lines.  There is, of course
exceptions and provisions for on the way to the target range or hunting.
 

> >BTW, I also load my pistol with an alternating load of Glazer safety 
> >slugs, Silver-tip hollow points, and parabellum solids. The Glazer's 
> >will not go thru walls, the hollow points will destroy anything they 
> >hit, and the 9mm Parabellum has more penetration than a .357 and will 
> >penetrate most brands of body armor, as well as stop the engine of a 
> >mack truck.

This is rediculous.  You only need one kind of round in a gun.  You only
want to stop the offender.  NOT the tv on the other side of the wall as well.
What are you going to do? advance to the next cylinder if you want to use a 
hollow point?  By your own words, there isn't time for that. Besides, if you
were up against a Mack truck you could always DODGE... :>

> Seems to me the hollow-tips would be best, or else some kind of
> fragmenting ammunition.  That way, they hit what they are supposed to
> hit, and lose so much kinetic energy in the process (dumping it into the
> thing you're shooting at and destroying it) that they won't penetrate
> anything else. 

That is precisely what the Glazer round is made for, and it is the only
round that I recommend to people who do security work or use their gun for
home/self protection. 

> >"An armed society is a polite society."
> 
> Nope.  An armed society is one where people are blown away constantly --
[lots stuff deleted]
> Pagans and Witches and other people on the right-wing's hit list who
> have kids are forced to remain at the mercy of the armed freaks around
> them.) 

By my gods, I certainly am not. Period.

Btw- I am a commissioned (armed) security officer in Texas, and have been doing
security for about 6 years.  In that time, I have shot no gun in the line of
duty and only drawn it once.  IMHO, when I work WITH the gun, I have less 
problems than when I work WITHOUT it.  And that I can prove, as I have beaten
the crap out of a lot more people than I have drawn on.

WHEW!
-Vlaad

+======================================================================+
|vlaad%eagles@brewich.hou.tx.us| Hammar I MODEM, Helga Ve Theta        |
|Vlaad Thunarsson of Eagles    |                +===+     Ok Hald Vord!|
|Reaches Church of Asatru, Inc |                |***|                  |
|       -==Elder Hof==-        |            +===+***+===+              |
|Member: Ring of Troth         |             +=========+               |
|Champion of the Hof in Houston|                 ***                   |
|and the House Thunarsson      |     The Hammer Shall Rise Again       |
+======================+===============================================+