HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: Ed Rotberg <gonzo@ntb.apple.com>
Subject: Re: Freak hand. YBTJ
X-Useragent: Nuntius v1.1
Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1992 21:52:43 GMT
     <davidm.722114000@questor>
Organization: Apple Computer

brl@kopasker.is (Bjorgvin Runar Leifsson)

In article <1173@kopasker.is> Bjorgvin Runar Leifsson, brl@kopasker.is
writes:
>>=================== 
>>Freaks are always hard to bid. This hand proved too much for both
>>tables in a recent team game.
>
>>Both Vul.
>>Dealer North.
>
>>                        S Q 7 4
>>                        H 10
>>                        D J
>>                        C A K Q J 9 7 5 3
>
>
>
>
>>                        S A K 6 5 3 2
>>                        H A 2
>>                        D K 10 8 6
>>                        C 10
>
>>Various suggestions have been made. I'm interested in the comments
>>from the net. How do you think the hands should be bid?
>
>As the net has already made various comments about the actual bidding at
the
>two tables, I'm not going to make a follow-up to those, but I wonder if
one
>could force the north hand under the category of 3NT opening, promising a
>solid 7-8 card minor and very little else.  In this case partner can
respond
>with 4NT, asking for side features and the north would answer with 5
spades.
>Then south should be able to bid 6NT with confidence.
>
>Any comments on this?

Bid 6NT that will be played from the wrong hand and could be set with a
diamond
lead if the cards sit right!?!?!?  I think the "safe" slam here is
preferable,
especially since this is a team game and 10 pt. NT differential is worth
zip.

Ed Rotberg                 "Just remember...
Professor of Gonzo          a waist is a terrible
Apple Computer, Inc.        thing to mind"
From: adam@irvine.com (Adam Beneschan)
Newsgroups: rec.games.bridge
Subject: Re: bidding problem
Date: 23 Nov 92 18:03:35 GMT
Organization: Irvine Compiler Corp., Irvine, California, USA


In article <1992Nov19.172930.11072@linus.mitre.org> bs@gauss.mitre.org 
(Robert D. Silverman) writes:

>::> Playing 2/1 GF and no opposition how do you
>::> recommend bidding the following hands.
>::> 
>::> Opener:  KQxx,A,AQxxx,109x
>::> Responder: Ax,Qxx,10xx,AKQJ8
>::
>::     1D   2C (1)
>::     2S   3C (2)
>::     4C   4S
>::     6C   P
>:
>
>And it still isn't the greatest 6C contract. It is a little over 50%.

I usually don't like to repost things just to correct mistakes, but I
really botched this one in my last post.  My thinking was right but my
editing was terrible.

OK, if they lead a trump, win it, ace of hearts, ace of spades, heart
ruff, KQ of spades pitching a diamond, spade ruff (which they cannot
overruff), heart ruff, ace of diamonds and concede a diamond;  now
your hand is high.  If spades are 5-2 and they ruff the queen you can
fall back on the diamond finesse.

On a spade lead, win the king and continue essentially as above.  

On a diamond lead, I'd take the finesse immediately;  if it loses, win any
return and continue essentially as above.

On a heart lead, you're practically cold.  Win, ace of spades, heart
ruff, king of spades, ruff a spade, heart ruff.  You still have a
trump left in dummy, so you can draw trumps and get to dummy with the
diamond ace to pitch another diamond on the spade queen.

                                -- Adam
From: bpwing@phoenix.princeton.edu (Ben Wing)
Newsgroups: rec.games.bridge
Date: 18 Nov 92 11:50:58 GMT
Subject: Re: Another alert problem
Organization: Princeton University
X-Subliminal-Message: You can quit reading news anytime you want.

In article <1992Nov17.221611.3827@speedy.aero.org> (martino@courier6.aero.org(Nick Martino)) writes:
|In article <1992Nov17.134545.11879@eua.ericsson.se>,
|ttllarsa@eua.ericsson.se (Lars Andersson) wrote:
|> 
|> The bidding;
|> S        W        N        E
|> P        1C(1)    3C(2)    D(3)
|> P        3D       P        3H
|> 3S       P        4C(!)    D
|> P        4D       P        P
|> P
|> 
|> (1) 10-17 hcp, 0-4 spades, 3-5 hearts (!)
|> (2) agrement = preemptive with clubs, alerted and explained as 5+ spades and another
|>                5+ suit
|> (3) Negative double
|> 
|> Both pairs compete at the highest national level.
|> 
|At what game, poker?  Seriously, 1C shows WHAT?  And a preempt on the NORTH
|hand (white vs red, no less)?  Actually, against this unwieldy EW bidding
|system, I can see where it would pay to preempt on just about anything.

I think you should probably reserve judgement rather than so quickly
criticize a bidding system you don't understand.  Lots of odd bidding
systems may appear on the surface to be completely unmanageable but in
practice may work out quite well.

ben
--

"Can't we all just get along?"
Newsgroups: rec.games.bridge
From: davidm@questor.Rational.COM (David Moore)
Subject: Re: yellow card system (was Re: Freak hand. YBTJ)
Organization: Rational
Date: Wed, 18 Nov 1992 19:13:20 GMT

tnh@sw.stratus.com (Tim Hill) writes:

>However, David takes some pot shots at the yellow card system, starting with:

>while indicating that he doesn't actually know the system:

Well, I remember looking at it when I first arrived here, and finding it odd.
I have just read through the rest of your post, and it now seems perfectly
reasonable and pretty much in line with what I would play with a pick up partner. 

Either my view of what consitutes reasonable bidding, or elsee
the Yellow card itself, have changed. Has the Yellow card been revised in the
last 5 years or so? 
Newsgroups: rec.games.bridge
From: ttllarsa@eua.ericsson.se (Lars Andersson)
Subject: Re: Some problems from the Finnish Pair Ch
Reply-To: ttllarsa@eua.ericsson.se
Organization: Ellemtel Telecom Systems Labs, Stockholm, Sweden
Date: Wed, 18 Nov 1992 15:30:28 GMT

In article 25958@nntp.hut.fi, m36150p@kaira.hut.fi (Janne Veikko Petteri Kallunki) writes:
>Problem 1B
>E/ALL
>	T82
>	K93
>	J9853
>	T8
>J		Q97643
>J865		AT
>AQ7		K42
>KJ753		94
>	AK5
>	Q742
>	T6
>	AQ62
>In the problem board auction was:
>N	E	S	W
>	2S	2NT	p
>p	p
>And it's two down (200 and 10/50).
>If it's 2 spades it's 9 tricks and it's also below the average.

You get 3 spades, a heart and a club, looks like 8 tricks to me.
At least on a heart lead.

>Problem 2
>E/EW
>	AK754
>	-
>	96
>	AQ7653
>J862		QT
>J86		A9532
>AQ7		KJ5
>T98		KJ4
>	93
>	KQT74
>	T8432
>	2
>
>N	E	S	W(me)
>	1H	2D(?)	D(take out)
                ^^
Looks like a misprint, why bid 2D?? Well, he got away with it so he`ll do it again...

>2S	p	p	D
>3C	p	p	D
>My partner lead the Ace of hearts and then it was ten tricks and no points
>for us.
>

This is an auction that screams for a trump lead...
Against doubled partscores I suggest you lead trumps unless you have something
very specific (like a singleton in partner's suit...).



>Problem 3
>We play Fert and opponents decided to play without defense against 
>our 1 Spade opening.

Very clever opponents ;-)

>I think it's important to decide defense system (like Anti non-sense)
>against Fert 1 spade even in pair competitions.

Yes, especially in pairs tournaments. However I don't think ferts should
be allowed in matchpoints at a low level. Low level would be when less than half
the pairs are likely to know how to defend against ferts.

>
>Problem 4
>E/EW
>	Q9854
>	AK53
>	AK85
>	-
        North


>N	E	S(me)	W
>	1C	p	p
>D	3NT	p	p
>D	p	p	p
>I lead spades and then it's one down and 15 points for us.
>With diamond lead it's two down.


I think your partner is more to blame on this hand. He might guess that E holds
7 club tricks and the ace of spades (possibly the king of spades as well or eight
clubs). He can also assume that you have a fit somewhere (unless you are 2335).
I suggest (resultmerchant) 4C by N in the second round.

--lars

Newsgroups: rec.games.bridge
From: davidm@questor.Rational.COM (David Moore)
Subject: Re: Which inference is better, WAS - "finesse or play for the drop"
Organization: Rational
Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1992 22:43:22 GMT

grabiner@math.harvard.edu (David Grabiner) writes:


>>>This is wrong, of course.  Unless you use a perfect random source for
>>>your shuffles, the conditional distribution of the opponents' cards
>>>will tend to depend upon your cards.

>> Would someone please explain this last point more fully? I am afraid
>> it isn't obvious to me.

Try this experiment. Sort a deck of cards into order (2C 3C .... KS AS) and
then shuffle them. Now count the number of times a card is followed by the
next higher card; that is, they have "stuck together" during the shuffle.

If the shuffle was totally random, the average number of such occurences in
a deck would be 1. In practice, the number will be quite high, even if you
make a good attempt at shuffling. 

Let's suppose you get 10 such pairs. Let us also suppose that the probability
of the K being over the Q in a pack is 10% (before the shuffle). Then the
probability of a finess working is raised to roughly 20%*10% + 50%=52%, and
the probabiliuty of it failing is lowered to 48%. (This calculation is actually not
quite right; the fact that the K and Q are not with you and your partner raises the
probability that they stuck together, so that the answer should be higher, but as we
are guessing at the other numbers, this is of little importance)

So, now the finesse and the drop are about equal probabilities.
From: martel@spider.cs.ucdavis.edu (Chip Martel)
Newsgroups: rec.games.bridge
Subject: Re: hard play problem, answer
Date: 22 Nov 92 20:38:13 GMT
Organization: U.C. Davis - Department Computer Science

The following hand was published by Krysztof Martens in Przeglad
Brydzowy, 1/92. Since it took me some time and has a neat
solution, I thought I would pass it on:

S: K 8 7 2	S: A Q T 9
H: A 4		H: K J 8 2
D: Q 6 4	D: A K T 9
C: A K Q J	C: 6

Give a line guaranteed to make 7NT by West on the club 10 lead.


Answer follows. If you haven't solved it yet you can save it
for later or give up now.


Answer: Play AKQJ of clubs throwing hearts! King of hearts, A,K,Q
of diamonds.The position is now: 
S: K 8 7 2	S: A Q T 9
H: A		H: -
D: _		D: T
If the diamond ten is high, claim, otherwise play the heart ace 
throwing the diamond 10. If the diamond jack is still out, play
the other hand for 4 spades. If someone shows out on the heart
ace, you have a complete count.


Those who solved it enjoyed the problem. The same may not be
true for those who struggled unsuccessfully.
Honor role of solvers (in order received):

Greg Lawler (jose@math.duke.edu)
Frank and Mike Roberts (froberts@csr.uvic.ca)
Nick Martino ( Martino@courier6.aero.org)
Chris Larson
Pekka Viitasalo (piv@cctap.carel.fi)
Peter Montgomery (pmontgom@math.orst.edu)

Correct but overly complex solvers:
 Kenneth Simonsen ( lsimonse@vipunen.hut.fi)
From: brl@kopasker.is (Bjorgvin Runar Leifsson)
Newsgroups: rec.games.bridge
Subject: Re: Freak hand. YBTJ
Date: 18 Nov 92 22:15:24 GMT
Organization: Primary School of Kopasker, Iceland

hargrove@nobelium.asc.slb.com (Jim Hargrove) writes:

>=================== 
>Freaks are always hard to bid. This hand proved too much for both
>tables in a recent team game.

>Both Vul.
>Dealer North.

>                        S Q 7 4
>                        H 10
>                        D J
>                        C A K Q J 9 7 5 3




>                        S A K 6 5 3 2
>                        H A 2
>                        D K 10 8 6
>                        C 10

>Various suggestions have been made. I'm interested in the comments
>from the net. How do you think the hands should be bid?

As the net has already made various comments about the actual bidding at the
two tables, I'm not going to make a follow-up to those, but I wonder if one
could force the north hand under the category of 3NT opening, promising a
solid 7-8 card minor and very little else.  In this case partner can respond
with 4NT, asking for side features and the north would answer with 5 spades.
Then south should be able to bid 6NT with confidence.

Any comments on this?

Bjorgvin R. Leifsson
brl@kopasker.is
From: kibler@turing.ICS.UCI.EDU (Dennis Kibler)
Newsgroups: rec.games.bridge
Subject: Re: bidding question
Date: 16 Nov 92 16:34:50 GMT
Article-I.D.: Paris.9211160831.aa19801



>     QJ2       KT73               W        E
>     AKJ5      T6                1D        1S
>     A985      J                 2N
>     AT        KQ9874


I don't know how to bid this either. In situations like this
I think its best to either a) describe your hand to partner
or b) use your knowledge of partner's hand to guess at the
most likely best contract.   In this case I can't (don't
know how to) describe my hand so I resort to b. Partner has
at least 2 clubs so we have a club fit. His hand has a 5-6
LTC and mine counts at 6 so we can probably make 6 clubs.
So i'd just bid 6 clubs. If I believe partner would understand
4 clubs as Gerber, then I would check, but this can lead to
misunderstandings, e.g    4c - 4h or 4s showing 2( whatever your methods are)
                          4nt  5grapes
                          5nt  6spades
                          6nt

dennis
Newsgroups: rec.games.bridge
From: davidm@questor.Rational.COM (David Moore)
Subject: Re: Which inference is better, WAS - "finesse or play for the drop"
Organization: Rational
Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1992 22:08:11 GMT

reha@cbnewsi.cb.att.com (reha.gur) writes:


>Easley also analyzed lots of computer and hand dealt deals and
>his conclusions are worth paying attention to. He concluded that you should
>play for the finesse on hand dealt hands 

A British Bridge magazine did an analysis of hand dealt hands about 20 years
ago which supported this; because there is some "memory" in a hand-shuffled
deck, Q's lie under K's more than 50% of the time. What they actually showed
ib the magazine was that hands tend to be flatter with hand-shuffled decks.



Newsgroups: rec.games.bridge
From: rudy@netcom.com (Rudy)
Subject: Re: Problems from Portland
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services (408 241-9760 guest)
Date: Wed, 18 Nov 1992 22:20:35 GMT

In article <32651@olympus.wustl.edu> geppo@dworkin.wustl.edu (Giuseppe Bianchi) writes:

>In article <1992Nov17.213628.11446@leland.Stanford.EDU> altus@leland.Stanford.EDU (Steve Altus) writes:
>>More than one person has written something to the effect of:
>>>>> 1. None vul. East dealer. You are West: AJ9542, T, Q7, AT32
>>>>>
>>>I would have opened 2S and avoided much of this mess.

>>you people are all either the worst bunch of result merchants i've
>>ever seen or the worst bunch of bidders i've ever seen.  hell, the
>>ACBL Club Series tells people who haven't played a hand in their
>>life to open this hand ONE spade!  i mean, if you want to play in
>>2S cold for six clubs, i suppose that's your right...

>Those are the observation of one of the worst bidder you've (n)ever seen

Gee, whom did you just call the worst bidder here?  Better watch your
pronouns, Giuseppe.

>1) How many times in your life you'll play 6C opposite a passed hand with
>   this hand, expecially with a *guaranteed* opening hand on your left?

I played 6C once on a hand that at the other table went three passes to
my RHO.  What's your point?  That was a world championship, by the way.

>2) The ACBL Club series tells to open 1H with Kx, AQJTx, QTx, KJx. 

Are you having conceptual difficulty or a language one?  The club series
tells you to open this hand 1H.  If it had 1 more jack, you would open
it 1 NT.  What's your point?

>   What does Steve Altus do with this hand? I don't think he follows 
>   the Club series rules ... or, as usual, am I wrong? 

In the real world, Steve Altus doesn't play the "club series" system.
If he did he would open this hand 1H.  What's your point?

>covers this newsgroup with crap. I'll try to learn something with the help 
>of your constructive suggestions. Thank you.

Good luck.  I'm off to create alt.bridge.constructive.suggestions
Let me know when your site gets it.
From: tnh@sw.stratus.com (Tim Hill)
Newsgroups: rec.games.bridge
Subject: Re: bidding question
Date: 16 Nov 92 20:20:20 GMT
Organization: Stratus Computer, Inc.
NNTP-Posting-Host: bigbootay.sw.stratus.com

In article <1e6gnlINNnh7@sol.deakin.OZ.AU>, doug@cm.deakin.OZ.AU (Douglas Newlands) writes:
> I was playing okbridge yesterday when this hand came to afflict me.
> We were playing 2/1 and this dropped me right into an unfamiliar area and I
> didn't know how to bid it, so any suggestions which explain clearly what to do
> and why are welcome.
> 
>      QJ2       KT73               W        E
>      AKJ5      T6                1D        1S
>      A985      J                 2N        3C
>      AT        KQ9874            3S        3N
> 
> I don't think there are any problems with the first 3 bids but I was unsure
> how to introduce the clubs.

How 'bout introducing clubs at the 6 level?  I agree with Dennis Kibler:
West's 2N rebid gives East sufficient reason to conclude that 6C will be
a good contract (provided West has three aces).  With my regular partners,
4C would be Gerber, so I vote for 1D-1S,2N-4C,4N-6C,P.

(BTW, my preferred agreement is that 4C is Gerber if and only if it directly
follows a natural 1N or 2N bid, or if responder to a 1N opening starts with
Stayman or Jacoby and then jumps to 4C.  RKC responses are used if Stayman
or Jacoby suggested a trump suit.)

> I just took a sure plus eventually but how should
> I continue here. Bid more clubs? How does partner know my clubs are longer?

Partner knows you may have been prevented by the 2/1 agreement from bidding
your suits in natural order, and if you rebid clubs after he shows three
spades, then he should work out that you have just four spades and at least
five (probably six) clubs.

But the premise of this question is that you need to describe your hand to
partner.  Partner's already described his hand to you.  You're the captain.
Take charge.

> Why should 4C not be a cue since we might have agreed spades?

With four spades and 18+ points, opener would have raised straight to four
spades, or splintered, or forced with 2H or 3C and then raised spades.  This
sequence shows three spades.  The search for a trump suit is not over.

> Since partner has opened 1D, is this a place where I can bid 2C and rebid 3C
> non-forcing and give away the spade suit?

In 2/1 according to Hardy, 1D-2C-2X-3C is game forcing and 1D-3C shows about
10-12.  In any case, whichever of those sequences is not forcing should not be
used with a four-card major.  Don't give away the spade suit.

I'd respond 2C with the East hand only if 1D-2C-2D-2S were not game forcing.


                                    Tim
From: dinah@rockytop.tivoli.com (Dinah McNutt)
Newsgroups: rec.games.bridge
Subject: Question about MP Results
Date: 19 Nov 92 20:02:53 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: TIVOLI Systems

On my MP Results I get from the ACBL, there is a line that
says:

QUALS: RR 1

What does this mean?


-- 


Dinah McNutt      TIVOLI Systems, Inc.   (512)794-9070
             dinah@tivoli.com
From: taylor@foraker.NoSubdomain.NoDomain (Eric Taylor)
Newsgroups: rec.games.bridge
Subject: Re: Freak hand. YBTJ
Date: 18 Nov 92 20:50:00 GMT

In article <1992Nov13.082058.13337@eua.ericsson.se>, ttllarsa@eua.ericsson.se (Lars Andersson) writes:
|> In article 1dukuaINN7cq@leo.asc.slb.com, hargrove@nobelium.asc.slb.com (Jim Hargrove) writes:
|> >=================== 
|> >Freaks are always hard to bid. This hand proved too much for both
|> >tables in a recent team game.
|> >
|> >Both Vul.
|> >Dealer North.
|> >
|> >                        S Q 7 4
|> >                        H 10
|> >                        D J
|> >                        C A K Q J 9 7 5 3
|> >
|> >
|> >
|> >
|> >                        S A K 6 5 3 2
|> >                        H A 2
|> >                        D K 10 8 6
|> >                        C 10
|> >
|> >The pairs at both tables were playing the "yellow card."
|> 
|> Don't know this excellent system but here goes;
|> 
|> N       S
|> 1C      2S(Strong jumps simplifies life...)

If you think this is a worth a jump shift.
When you jump shift, you should have a 4 card fit for partner
AND/OR a suit that can play well opposite a void.  I dont't think this
is true for this hand.
Newsgroups: rec.games.bridge
From: bs@gauss.mitre.org (Robert D. Silverman)
Subject: Re: Bidding over preempts - assess the blame
Organization: Research Computer Facility, MITRE Corporation, Bedford, MA
Date: Sun, 22 Nov 1992 00:55:26 GMT

In article <1992Nov20.152935.27683@rayssd.ssd.ray.com> sgm@sgfb.ssd.ray.com (Steve Myerson) writes:
:Bidding over preempts is always a challenge.
:What would you do here? Assess the blame.
:3N makes for NS. 3D went down 4. East opened 3D on T987x of diamonds.
:
:Matchpoints. NS vul. West dealer.
:
:North: KQ7xx,  86x,   KQ6,  J7
:South: Ax,     AKJx,  xxx,  A8xx
:
:West  North  East  South
:pass  pass   3D    pass
:pass  pass
 
No blame. You've been fixed. It happens to everyone.

South has 7 losers and poor shape for a t/o double, despite 4 QT.
North has too much strength in the opponents suit and too many
losers to make balancing attractive. Although of all possible actions,
balancing with 3S seems the best bet. But I can not fault not doing so.

Note that if East has a REAL 3D call, then game becomes much less
a good bet. Spades probably won't break, nor hearts and you have a
shortage of tricks for NT.

--
Bob Silverman
These are my opinions and not MITRE's.
Mitre Corporation, Bedford, MA 01730
"You can lead a horse's ass to knowledge, but you can't make him think"
From: avir@chen.bgu.ac.il (Avi Roy Shapira)
Newsgroups: rec.games.bridge
Subject: Re: Striped-tail doubles
Date: 16 Nov 92 02:47:50 GMT
Organization: Ben Gurion University, Beer Sheva, Israel

kibler@turing.ICS.UCI.EDU (Dennis Kibler) writes:
:
:
: As dealer you pick up  Axx,AQ10x,xx,Qxxx and open 1 club.
: The bidding goes:
:
:
:   1c   1nt  2s   3d*    Alert transfer to hearts
:   p    3h   p    3nt
:   X**  p    p    4d
:   p    p    p
:
:
: ** I believed 3nt as asking for a choice between 3nt and 4hearts
: and felt I could beat either contract.
:     Not - 3nt makes with an overtrick as 1nt bidder held KJXX of hearts.
:
If I get this right, the 3d was not transfer, but natural, and it seems that
there was quite a bit of illegal info on the opponents side. How else do you
explain 1NT bidder failure to correct 4d to 4h with KJxx ?

: Does the double call for any particular suit to be lead?
:
In this instance, 2S is a weak bid. With a good suit and a few points partner
would have doubled 1NT.  The double indicates that you have a high honor in
spades, and also some heart values, and that you can defeat the contract on
your own. Since without the double partner will tend to lead a club, I think
that the double should indicate a spade lead.

Avi
Newsgroups: rec.games.bridge