From: godura@oin.cis.udel.edu (Ruchir Godura)
Subject: Re: Khalistan
Organization: University of Delaware, Newark
Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1992 17:29:16 GMT

In article <uw8euB3w165w@ersys.edmonton.ab.ca> garyd@ersys.edmonton.ab.ca (Gary Deol) writes:
>A reply to a message written by: kvivek@tiger.ecn.uoknor.edu (Khanna 
>Vivek)
> 
> 
>  I thank you for your support, however I would also like to mention
>that not many (none that i've read or heard about) Hindu families have 

All I can say abou that is thta you don't hear or read much, which
adequately explains the level of your IQ and extent of your knowledge.
FYKI, knowledge about India is not gained by reading propaganda
pamphlets from assholes sitting pretty in gurdwaras in foreign lands or
wily Pakistanis ever ready to dupe stupid morons like you.
You get information about what is happening in India BY BEING IN INDIA, and 
nowhere else in the world. You get your information from the *FREE*
press in India, although the press in Punjab is hardly free, considering
the restrictions imposed on it by the terrorists.
Do you think the Hindus are fools to think of actually migrating to
other states, if it were not for fear of life ? Get real, man, the sole
targets of the terrorists are innocent hindus or sikhs who are seen to
be overly supportive of hindus. And you seem to justify all the
killings. Whoever informs the police is a betrayer of the sikh panth and
deserves to be killed. Is this the sense of democracy and fairplay that
you intend to build your *FICTIOUS* Khalistan on ? Sikhs form a small
percentage of the Indian population today, and you claim they want to
separate from India. What will you do if *dream* in your *FICTIOUS*
Khalistan, 48 % of the people want to break away and form "Vedasthan" ?
Will you gladly grant them half your *FICTIOUS* Khalistan, as you are
urging the Indian govt. to do today ? Or will you simply feel the
"loin" rise inside you, and in an act of unparalleled bravery, pick up
the nearest AK-47 and butcher the hindus you see around you. Knowing
you, sir, you would probably take the latter course, as your lunatic
cousins are doing today in Punjab. That, precisely, is why, no one in
the civilized world wants to listen to you today.

>been killed in predominatly Sikh villages in Punjab, including the 
>Nov. 84 riots!  In my village there are around 12 Hindu families, I 
>had the fortunate chance to talk to one of them on my last trip there 
>and asked if they feel safe here and the person replied `yes and told 
>me the Sikhs think of them as brothers and sisters and even in 84 saw 
>no sense in hurting us!' <-- couldn't say the same for the Hindus 
>in Delhi!

Don't talk about one hindu family. I can show you a million sikh
families in Delhi who will say the same. 
What are you constantly trying to prove in your senseless postings ?
That the Indian government is hindu dominated, that they are all out for
killing all sikhs, except who kiss their ass .. etc. ? 
Has it ever occured to you that if the Indian government wanted to
eliminate sikhs, it would be rather strange for it to start doing so in
Punjab, where sikhs are in a majority. What about all the millions of
sikhs living outside Punjab. Strange that they can live, work, speak,
freely in all parts of India, while, as you say the "hindu" government
policy is to stamp out all sikhs. Do not be under the illusion that it
is not doing so out of fear of international repurcussions .. no one
will lift a finger to support the sikhs were *fantasize* such a thing to
happen. Do you know what has happened in Fiji ? Do you know what happens
in Malaysia ? It's business as usual there. 
The Indian government does not go about systematically discriminating
against sikhs simply because it does not want to, simply because no one
in his sane mind would want to destroy his own countryman, no Indian
would want to do that to another Indian, and we, in India, consider
sikhs Indian. 
I forget, but was it Churchill who said that a democracy will definitely
do the wrong things, but end up finally doing the right thing. Well,
India is a democracy, and the government does wrong things. Remember,
things cannot be better in a democracy, given the current situation.
There are fake encounters. So, they are bound to happen. They are bound
to happen, if the terrorists keep killing the families of policemen.
These harassed Punjab policemen ( a majority of which are sikhs .. but
you will again dismiss them as kiss-ass puppets of the hindu
government) are not superhumans .. they are ordinary mortals, who are
sick and tired of having to live under constant fear of death, not only
for themselves, but also for their families. Do you expect them to risk
their lives to catch a terrorist, and then haul him off to court, where
the possibility of his being hanged for his crime is almost negligible ?
Get it into your thick skull that there is *NO* organised movement to
crush the sikhs. India gains nothing from that, while she stands to gain
everything from a united and prosperous Punjab. Whatever human right
abuses happen in Punjab are instinctive, emotional responses of the
policemen on a thankless duty, who are fighting an unseen, AK-47,
rocket etc., equipped enemy, with rifles and with one arm tied behind
their back. Of course, irrational responses and fake encounters are
severely dealt with if found, but remember, these things are not
difficult to keep secret.


> 
>Another interesting tidbit my cousin, who recently came from India
>told me that most of the Hindu youths at his college support the 
>Sikhs in their fight for self-determination, they've seen how the 

A stupid, imbecilic, self contradictory comment that deserves no further reply.

>people of Punjab have been screwed one time to many by the 
>self-serving Indian gov't.  
> 
>>Some years hence, hindus in Khalistan may form terrorist groups and 
>>start demanding a separate state. What will you do then? Or did you 
>>envisage a hindu free Khalistan Hindus form at least 45% of the 
>>population of Khalistan ( if not more). What do you plan to do? 
>>Exterminate all of these people or perhaps have a situation like
>>1947 again. Are you prepared for that kind of savagery in the 90's. 
> 
>  'Savagery in the 90's' what do you think the Hindu gov't of India
>is doing right now, throwing a birthday party for the Sikhs?  
>As for your comment on Hindus occupying 45% of the population of 
>Punjab, the majority of them are Dalits who come to our Gurdwaras,
>respect the Gurbani, and use our form of the marriage ceremony more
>than likely will go with the Pro-Khalistanies after all for most of 
>them their lively hoods are connected with the people of Punjab!  
>As for the upper caste Hindus i'm sure in time when the pursuit for 
>Khalistan comes in the Sikhs favour they will see the economic 

You're living in a dream land. Not *ONE* hindu is going to stay in
a state built on the bloodbath that you want to create *FICTITIOUS*
khalistan on. Neither will, I can guarantee you, millions of sikhs, who
know that a Khalistan will be a political and economic disaster.. more
so if it is going to be run by goons like you, for whom peace,
brotherhood and tolerance are fictitious words, by goons who are self
proclaimed messaiahs of the community, but, in reality are simply self
serving closed minded nincompoops, like Bhindranwale and his 2-penny
halfpenny "sants".

>benefits associated with Khalistan for Punjab and want a voice in

Benefits ????!!??? You mean an AK-47 in the back every time you open
your mouth ? I can only dream of the benefits the *FICTITIOUS* khalistan
state would give it's minority citizens.


>the government so they to will favour it, that is why the gov't is 
>desperately trying to create a rift among Hindu's and Sikhs!  

Oh, and those gun-toting terrorists are applying the soothing balm to
heal the rift, I suppose ? That is what, probably their aim was each
time they singled out hindus from buses, trains, congregetions, etc, to
mercilessly butcher them ? They, I suppose were simply trying to build a
bond which would unite the Hindus and Sikhs in *FICTIOUS* Khalistan ?

> 
<....... Stuff on why there were no riots when Rajiv Gandhi died ..... >

A very stupid question, but, nevertheless, here goes. The basic, simple
reason, and even my dog Tommy will tell you that is that there weren't
murderous gangs of Tamils roaming the South indiscriminately killing
hindus. And there were no Tamils rejoicing and distributing sweets when
Rajiv Gandhi died. Moreover, India had seen a bloodbath in '84, and was
prepared to handle another such situation. I was in Calcutta then, and
tension did arise in the Tamil inhabited areas, but was quickly
controlled. 

> 
>>        Do you remember the Punjab of the 70's. I am a Punjabi 
>>(native of Batala in Gurdaspur). I love Punjab, and my home there.If 
>>there were to be a free and fair referendum in Punjab, then only a 
>>few districts would clearly emerge as favouring Khalistan.
> 
>  I'm willing the bet that ALL Sikh populated districts would vote 
>unanonymously for Khalistan, I would like to know where your 
>`few districts' were when the elections for chief minister were held 
>and there was 85% (95% said the Panthic Committee but i'll go with 
>the Indian newspaper figures) less turn out!  My cousin who just 
>recently came from India was a total supporter of Khalistan there 

Don't again mouth crap before knowing the facts. In the recent elections
in Punjab, there was a 70 % voter turnout ( I think thsese were
municipal elections). And the lunatic terrorist groups were not taking
part in the poll. What were all these people doing ? Expressing support
for *FICTITIOUS* Khalistan ? Or were they dragged out of their houses by
the police with threats of fake encounters ? Or perhaps they were
bribed. FYKI these people turned out in large numbers to vote because
they were expressing their faith in the Indian system of democracy, as
opposed to the terrorists' rule of the gun. And they did this braving
the threats of the terrorists.
If those terrorists are so sure of getting a majority, why don't they
just let there be free and fair elections? Why do they back out
everytime an election is announced? Why do they sabotage elections by
killing candidates, and calling curfews on election day? WHY DON'T THEY
DISPLAY THEIR CLAIMED LEGITIMACY AS REPRESENTATIVES OF THE PEOPLE JUST
ONCE BY WINNING AN ELECTION ? Don't give me bullshit about rigged
elections and all that. Rigging takes place all over India, but because
of the sheer size of each constituency, rigging rarely swings the
overall result of a vote. Moreover, if the terrorists are powerful
enough to sabotage elections, can't they just make sure there will be no
rigging ?
The simple answer to all the above questions is that the terrorists know
that they are bound to lose an election were they to contest in one. For
they are nothing but just criminals, who deserve to be hanged. Because
for them, a life of pillage, loot, plunder, of free alms from Pakistan,
of lordship over a village or area is far more attractive than one in
the real world, where they have to compete and work for a job. These
terrorists are the ones who are interested most in maintaining the
status quo, because it suits them so, and because there are enough
suckers like GARY DEOL who are willing to finance their easy lives. 
You call these lunatic terrorists "BRAVE"? "MARTYRS"????!!!! Have you
seen any of the confessions they put out on television?
No sooner is a terrorist captured than Doordarshan telecasts a
"confession" from the prisoner. Of course, the terrorists are forced,
maybe even tortured into making them say this. But the whole point is
that no sooner are they caught than they squeal like pigs. I thought
"MARTYRS" and "FREEDOMFIGHTERS" were made of sterner stuff. 

>(He was lucky his uncle used to have a high position in the Punjab 
>police force before he retired so he was able to get him out when the 
>police picked him up because they were threatning to kill him in a 
>`fake police encounter' - they even had the location picked.) along 
>with his class mates and even here in Canada (and don't tell me 
>he is an isolated case), the problem is you guys have been spoonfed 

Definitely not an isolated case. I is natural that he would be
threatened by the police. You yourself say that he was a supporter of
*FICTITIOUS* Khalistan. What do you expect the police to do? Send him a
bouquet of flowers everyday. I would also be interested to know of the
activities of this obviously unemployed youth. Mark my words, the police
are not as irrational and savage as the terrorists are.


Like I said before, get real, get a life, and let others hang on to
theirs.

Ruchir.
-- 
Ruchir Godura
Father,....  Yes, son ..  I want to kill you ..!!    (Doors .. The End)
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