From: jackson@ponder.csci.unt.edu (Bruce Jackson)
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.marketplace
Subject: Re: Do bike stores mark up or mark down?
Date: 13 Jan 93 01:08:14 GMT
Organization: University of North Texas, Denton

>In article <1993Jan12.014550.17101@mercury.unt.edu> jackson@ponder.csci.unt.edu (Bruce Jackson) writes:

[stuff about buying complete bikes mail order deleted]

>>I'd avoid purchasing a bike this way.  You don't get to test ride it.

In article <C0qqvx.L7o@watserv2.uwaterloo.ca> praetzel@maxwell.uwaterloo.ca (Eric Praetzel) writes:

>Of the two better bike shops in this town, neither will let you test ride it.

I have never even heard of a bike shop that doesn't allow test rides.  The
only time I ever refused a test ride was a time an 8 year old wanted to
ride a $600 freestyle bike that I knew that the parents had no intention
of buying.  The parents called me an asshole and took their business to
K-mart (where they would have gone anyway).

>I am not going to throw down $3k on a suspended bike unless I can see how it
>rides. However, for road bikes I perused the catalogs, sent away the cash and
>had parts rolling in within the week.  In one month I had my Klein built for
>1/2 of the Canadian price.  Even if the local shops had test rides I would not
>bother buying from them with that sort of markup.

After shipping and allowing a couple hours labor for the assembly and
adjustments I usually made about 10% margin on pro bikes.  Either you are
halucinating or bike shops do a lot better in Canada than down here.

>  Then again, some of my friends are on the Racer Sportif team and they can 
>get Dura Ace STI bikes for $1700 Cdn which is 2/3 to 1/2 of what I could 
>import one for.  So if you want a cheap bike, join a team and get the sponsors
>product.  Then you can turn around, sell it and get what you have been
>drooling over.

Considering that you think that this is acceptable behavior I can now
understand why the bike shops in your area probably treat you like dirt.
Word gets around.  Don't you think that we notice when people come in and
try on bike shoes, don't buy them, and then magically have a pair a week
later?  I wish I had a nickel for every time someone tried to return to
us defective merchandise that they bought mailorder claiming that we
sold it to them.  After a while we get to know which customers are whores
and gladly send them to the shop down the street.

>All in all I do not think that a test ride is worth much of anything
>unless it is the case of something new (like a fully suspended MTB) and
>in that case the only test ride that will count is getting off road and
>bouncing thru some rock strewn paths.  If you follow the hype and nonsense
>of bicycling; how can you judge a road bike unless you get it on a fast
>desent to see how it shimmies?

It's been a while since I've seen a new bike shimmy.  Anyway, I let serious
customers take bikes for extended test rides.  If it is someone I don't
know I may ask them to leave their drivers license but if they want to
take it on a 20 mile ride, fine!

>>Most good shops will expertly assemble the bike.  The last 3 shops I
>>worked at did all of the first's years labor and maintenance free.

>  Thats a good joke.  Why do you think I bought my own tools?  It was not
>  worth my time to drop the bike off, wait days, pick it up and then have
>  to readjust their mistakes.

I'll bet that I can build up a bike better than you.  Do you have all the
tools?  The shops I worked had the full Campi tool kit, fork truing jigs,
frame gauges, and some really esoteric tools.  Some bigger shops even have
surface tables which I'm pretty sure you don't have in your basement.
Every pro bike I built up had every surface flat and perpendicular and
every thread chased.  While not every shop takes this much care I'll bet
that they can do a more thourough job than you can.

>>All shops give at least a 30 day checkup which catches a lot of potential
>>problems.  

>  The only time I would agree with this is if the person is pretty ignorant
>  of the mechanics of a bike.  But if they are chances are that they will
>  never get on the thing more than once per month.

The person I was answering did not present himself as an expert.  While
you may disagree there are a lot of advantages to buying from a bike shop,
expecially for a novice.  Shops I worked at put on rides of all speeds,
sponsored bike clubs, and racing teams.  I can guarantee you that my
customers had fewer problems than mail order customers and any problems
that they did have were solved or fixed more quickly.  I know somone who
had to hire a lawyer to settle his disupute with a mail order house.  No
problem I ever had went to that level.  Every time I sell a bike I know
that if there is a problem that I will deal with it face to face.  This
is a very strong motivation to make sure that problems do not happen or
are dealt with quickly and professionally.  Mail order houses know that
they will never have to deal directly with their customers.

If all of the bike shops in your area really are as expensive and bad
as you describe I can certainly understand buying mail order.  I suspect
that most cyclists will do better finding the best bike shop they can
and doing as much business with them as possible.  There are folks out
there that love the sport as much as you do and run a bike shop so that
they can make a living out the pastime that they enjoy.  Not every shop
is like this but they are out there (and probably going out of business
since so many of the cyclists they help do not return the favor).

>>ride with the wind...

>  Do you have an enchantment that I can use to get it to blow the other way
>  at the turn around point?

Sorry, no magic incantation for this.  My first bicycle mentor used to say
this.  Don't be so literal.  It sort of means ride like the wind, free,
easy, unencumbered.  He said it with soul and sincerity as each happy
customer rode off (I know it's sorta' hokey).

>- Eric 

ride like the wind...   (better?)

Bruce  -  jackson@cs.unt.edu