HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: mkagalen@lynx.dac.northeastern.edu (michael kagalenko)
Subject: Re: Soviet military training
Organization: Northeastern University, Boston, MA. 02115, USA
Date: Thu, 31 Dec 1992 02:33:46 GMT

In article <Dec.30.19.32.11.1992.29935@pilot.njin.net> hubey@pilot.njin.net (Hubey) writes:
>In article <1992Dec30.213232.8829@lynx.dac.northeastern.edu> mkagalen@lynx.dac.northeastern.edu (michael kagalenko) writes:
>
>
>> I spent some time (namely, 2 years) in the Sov.Army & can assure
>> everyone that the cited statement is not just stereotype. As for 
>> Chechen desire to secede from Russia - my opinion ( & of many my friends, 
>> too) that Russia would benefit greatly from "sanitary cordon" on 
>> the border of "Independent Chechnja". 
>
>Hmmm.. there's an idea :-).. Maybe the Estonians, Latvians
>and Lithuanians can start terrorizing everyone in the Red
>Army. Would that result in them being asked to leave and
>be independent :-)..
>

1st : Red Army is not the case (see below). They're worsening criminal 
situation in  the FSU (incl. Baltic rep.)

2nd : When it was the last time you've read something ? Baltic rep. are
independent already. Strong border is a good idea in that case too,
since considerable part of national product of this countries is 
obtained by smuggling valuble metals from Russia (tolerated by 
governments of those rep.) & selling to the west without paying export tariffs.
 
 

>
>
>>Want would you say about
>> politician who use the threats of terroristic actions against Russians 
>> as a tool for pressuring Russian government ? This is precisely what the
>> head of this "independent republic" general Dudaev did repeatedly in his
>> interviews to Russian media. Not to mention mafia structures formed 
>> by the citizens of "free Chechnia" in many Russian citys. 
>
>The kind of statement made by Dudaev is obviously stupid.

I agree (see below) Chechnya does not have external borders & they're 
taking advantage of one feature of Russian character -  getting angry
slowly. However, this kind of stament is typical for Hitler - type
dictators. They're stupid & therefore dangerous. 


>
>But I can't stop wondering how it's possible for a population
>of less than one million people in a nation of about 250-300
>million can produce enough army age recruits to terrorize the
>whole Red Army.
>
>Are they superhumans ? Or are they congenitally born to be
>terrorists ?
>-- 

Who told you that they terrorize the whole SA ? Some divisions of it
were unlucky enough to get a considerable percent of those guys. Typically 
their intellectual level is low, much lower then their self-esteem.
They're dealt with succesfully, however ;->




>
>	mark	
>
>   hubey@amiga.montclair.edu         hubey@apollo.montclair.edu
>   hubey@pilot.njin.net               ...!rutgers!pilot!hubey
From: hubey@pilot.njin.net (Hubey)
Newsgroups: talk.politics.soviet
Subject: Re: Stereotypes of Soviet Peoples
Date: 3 Jan 93 20:13:50 GMT
Organization: Rutgers Univ., New Brunswick, N.J.

In article <Sorokin.38.726065000@ps1.iaee.tuwien.ac.at> Sorokin@ps1.iaee.tuwien.ac.at (Sorokin Zhenya) writes:


> In any case, my remark about osetian was nothing but a joke. It wouldn't 
> have dony any difference, if I wrote "georgian" or "russian", and that's 
> what I wanted to stress! Hasbulatov's way to power have nothing to do with 
> his nationality. Lukianov, for example, tried to do *the same*.
> 

On the other hand, I've seen a real book which claims that Stalin
was an Ossetian. I agree with your statements. When Stalin was
still a hero, he was a homo sovieticus par excellance. When he
became a rascal, he was promptly dumped on the Georgians, who
apparently lost no time dumpig him on the Ossetians.

What I'm still waiting for is for the Ossetians to discover
a 207 year old Ossetian in the mountains who'll remember 
Stalin's ancestors arriving from Chechnia :-).. :-)... :-)..
-- 

	mark	

   hubey@amiga.montclair.edu         hubey@apollo.montclair.edu
   hubey@pilot.njin.net               ...!rutgers!pilot!hubey    
Newsgroups: talk.politics.soviet,soc.culture.soviet
From: hubey@pilot.njin.net (Hubey)
Newsgroups: talk.politics.soviet
Subject: Re: One year of YELTSINOMICS!
Date: 2 Jan 93 19:10:35 GMT
Organization: Rutgers Univ., New Brunswick, N.J.

In article <1993Jan2.165813.1@cc.helsinki.fi> thietaniemi@cc.helsinki.fi writes:

> I would like to start a discussion on the following topic:

Great idea..

> Exactly one year ago, January 2. 1992 the prices in Russia were if
> not set totally free, at least raised three- fivefold. 
> It was the start of Yeltsinomics (or Gairadonomics).
> 
> Why did it not succeed?
>
> Or did it succeed, anyhow?

It's the chicken or egg problem, multiplied n-fold. You need private
enterprises for the pricing system to work--at least competetion. You
also need consumers who are used to having a choice so that they
can take advantage of it. You also need workers and managers who
are used to working in a competetive system--at least managers who
are used to making decisions and being rewarded for making the 
good ones--instead of passing the buck.

HOw do you create such a system ? If only the state enterprises
were to be auctioned off--if some private enterprise existed--
there'd be no serious problems. So where do you start ?

If you want to sell state enterprises, then there are no buyers.
It can't be sold to foreigners (chauvinism), no enterprise in the
country can buy them, and the workers won't gang up and buy them
up because they're too cynical.

The germ of private enterprise exists on small garden plots. And
food is the most important commodity to concentrate on. If by
raising prices (i.e. freeing them), you can induce people to
plant more crops and for some to even try their hand at starting
larger scale private farming coops, then in one year it would
essentially succeed in solving the food shortage problem. We'll
see what happens this summer and next winter.

The industry is a much bigger problem.

 
> Or did some instances (like the central Bank of Russia) sabotage the
> whole reform program?

There's probably an underlying current of resentment among the
middle-management ranks. All they had to do was wait for a while,
and they would have become bigger bosses. After all, didn't they
bide their time patiently and play by the rules ? Now the
rules say that they paid their dues but won't get paid. So every
middle-manager is potentially a saboteur.

And the bigger they are more they have at stake.

As far as the bank, it's easier to control an economy if there's
no one responsible and you strict price and wage controls. Trying
to make the economy work 'properly' with interest rates and money
supply changes is difficult. The Bank might have really done things
wrong and not intend any sabotage. I'm not sure if the evidence
is overwhelming. Would you please elaborate ?


> Or are these questions posed in a wrong manner?

NO. They're just very difficult to answer by anyone especially
by amateur economists :-)..
-- 

	mark	

   hubey@amiga.montclair.edu         hubey@apollo.montclair.edu
   hubey@pilot.njin.net               ...!rutgers!pilot!hubey    
Newsgroups: talk.politics.soviet
From: solodov@monterey1.cs.wisc.edu (Mikhail V. Solodov)
Subject: Re: U.S. reserve officers support program to a
Organization: University of Wisconsin, Madison -- Computer Sciences Dept.
Date: Wed, 23 Dec 1992 18:48:01 GMT

In article <1992Dec23.143001.10809@synapse.bms.com> henry@bms.com writes:
>Why do I have to pay my tax dollars to retrain former soviet officers & millitary personal?
>Don't we have enough discontent in the inner cities where people need training & skills?
>Every time CIS needs new infusions,they begin to blackmail countries to come up with new aid package or else...

     Whom do you accuse ? Russia or the US Congress  ?
     If the latter then elect another one, if Russia
     then save your breath.

>Why the world community can not use the millitary expertise of hi tech, well trained troups of CIS in Yugoslavia to stop the bloodshed?

     It's not the hi tech that stops the bloodshed...

>Where were they 2 years ago when The US, France & GB were risking lives of their personal in the UN declared war on Iraq?

     This is a good one. Why Russia should fight for the strategic and oil
     interests of the US ?!    Sorry, I have forgotten -
     it was all about democracy in Kuwait .

>The only person I noticed at that time, was Mr. Primakov - a special envoy to Iraq, who was negotiating with Saddam.
>If they want to get paid , why not to work for the money ?

     It's absolutely self-evident that the US mind their own interests
     when committing any help (by the way, minimal so far) to Russia.
     So why should Russia work hard for something which is in the
     other country's interest anyway ? Kind of silly from pragmatic
     point of view.

>Henry.

Michael.
From: ceg@dec-4.CE.Berkeley.EDU (Carl E. Grigorian)
Newsgroups: talk.politics.soviet
Subject: Re: Stereotypes of Soviet Peoples
Date: 2 Jan 1993 00:35:06 GMT
Organization: University of California, Berkeley
NNTP-Posting-Host: dec-4.ce.berkeley.edu

In article <Sorokin.36.725923408@ps1.iaee.tuwien.ac.at> Sorokin@ps1.iaee.tuwien.ac.at (Sorokin Zhenya) writes:
>
>Famous, oh yes. You know, Stalin is still the most famous Osetian in the 
                                                    ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^!?
>world...          


Seeing that you know so much about Soviet ethnic groups, I wonder if you can
solve what has been a mystery for me as of late. You see, I was under the
impression that Stalin was a regular Georgian. My Encyclopedia Britannica
is also of the same opinion. It has also been suggested to me by not so
reliable sources that he was a Mountain Jew, whatever that is, despite the
fact that he was a Christian seminary student at one time. Now, you say he
was an Ossetian. Could you elaborate a little bit?


ceg
Newsgroups: talk.politics.soviet
From: Olli-Jukka Paloneva <opaloneva@abo.fi>
Subject: Re: Stereotypes of Soviet Peoples
Organization: Turku School of Economics
X-Useragent: Nuntius v1.1
Date: Wed, 30 Dec 92 15:11:50 GMT

In article <01GSXCK83JTE8WWTNJ@MUVAXJ.RFERL.ORG> ,
BADERTINOVS%NEWS@adminb.rferl.org writes:
>Oh, come on... How can you believe those stereotypes? The
Chechen
>republic wants to secede from Russia--that's the reason for all
>the carefully nurtured rumours and stereotypes, like the one
>that most of them are criminals and mafia members.
>
>Sometimes those stereotypes can be very persistent. For
example,
>many people think that the famous 'Afghantsi' are all macho,
>tough guys who don't care about any dangers. Bull...! They are
>normal young guys not different from other soldiers.
>
>Sabirjan

The source was a Finn, whose parents did not succeed in avoiding
the Soviet Empire by staying for too long in the Estonia. He is
married with an Estonian girl (both of them lives now in
Finland)
has more personal reasons to blame Russians than a minority
nation
the Chechens.

He served in South in a "spade" battallion and saw the Soviet
army at
its worst. Common Russian in a decent or good military unit can
not
imagine that.

The way, how Chechenians treated their superioirs and
colleagues does
not change my personal feelings for example of Ruslan
Hasbulatov, who
is probably the most famous Chechen in Russian nowadays.

Sometimes I wonder, why it is easier to find common sense
between
the foreigners and CISsians than among CISsians?

Olli
From: henry@bms.com (Henry Mednikoff)
Subject: Re: U.S. reserve officers support program
Reply-To: henry@bms.com
Organization: Bristol-Myers Squibb PRI
Date: Wed, 23 Dec 1992 20:56:29 GMT

If people need money and they are offered job to do, they have to take it and do it,
instead of waiting for a wellfare check to arrive.
USSR could greatly enhance its political and financial standing if it millitarily
cooperated in the Gulf War in 1990.
Mikhail Solodov suggests that Russia  is not in the position of "protecting American 
oil interests.." but he complains about little financial help available from America.
Germany is giving a lot in exchange for promise of speedy Russian troops withdroval,
they have their vested interests in such help.
What is American rate of return on huge financial help anticipated?
Safe skies?
Merry Christmas from Eltsin?

Why Mr. Solodov is so angry about US?
It is time to get rid of "Big Brother " mentality.
" Po Senke - Shapka".

It is not amazing anymore to watch the demise of CIS, it is time to pay the bill
for many decades of stupid internal ethnic politics and external,global politics.
Instead of rolling up sleeves and working hard, we hear threats from some Russians:
" Bail us out.!! or hold your breath".


Henry.
From: alderson@LAST-CALL.CISCO.COM (Rich Alderson)
Newsgroups: talk.politics.soviet
Subject: Re: 2Re: Bulgarians - descendents of a Finnis tribe?
Date: 31 Dec 92 18:01:00 GMT
Reply-To: "talk.politics.soviet via ListServ" <TPS-L@indycms.bitnet>

I am a linguist, specifically a specialist in Indo-European historical and
comparative linguistics.  I have, as part of my training, studied the relation-
ships among several other language families, including Uralic and the proposed
Ural-Altaic.

Basque is unrelated to any known language.  (The technical term is "language
isolate.")  This does not mean that it never had relatives, simply that none of
them survived to the present day.  Attempts have been made over the years to
connect Basque to Etruscan, the Caucasian languages, and a number of other
families, but never on systematic, theoretically valid grounds.

As I noted in the post(s) to which you seem to be replying, Finnish and
Hungarian are related to each other, as well as to Estonian and Lapp (also
European languages--as, for that matter, are the languages spoken along the
Volga :-).

Bynon's introductory textbook _Historical Linguistics_ is quite good, if you
wish to pursue this sort of thing.  If you've already studied some linguistics,
you could look for Bjorn Collinder's books on the Uralic languages in your
university library.

                                                                Rich Alderson
From: medev@my12.sm.luth.se (Alexander Medvedev)
Newsgroups: talk.politics.soviet
Subject: waffle girl from Tallin
 <1993Jan2.151932.1@cc.helsinki.fi> <1993Jan2.175525.17213@enea.se>
Date: 3 Jan 93 16:49:43 GMT

>sommar@enea.se (Erland Sommarskog) writes:


>She might not have been caught doing anything illegal, but it is
>difficult to imagine that she has not had contacts with the criminal
>world, voluntary or involuntary. For some reason she has bodyguards...

>--
>Erland Sommarskog - ENEA Data, Stockholm - sommar@enea.se
>Jag gav en k{ck tjeck en check.
I remember that article in Dagens Nyheter you refer to. Actually, it doesn't
contain much information about lady's activities, but gives at least a clue how
she does her business. For example she used to buy junked ships from Aral Sea,
transport them via Russia to Estonia and, eventually, sell them to Sweden.
Could this be accomplished by a "waffle girl" from Tallin? I doubt. One can also
notice that she had begun her trade long before Estonia has got her independence
which fact hints to well-established connections with Soviet red tape. All this
makes me thinking the lady is just a "bulvan" (dummy?) acting on behalf of some
mighty xSoviet mafia. I don't mean ordinary criminals but that scary gang of
industrial managers who run Russia and plunder what's left of USSR.

                                                        Alexander
                                                        medev@sm.luth.se
Newsgroups: talk.politics.soviet
From: mkagalen@lynx.dac.northeastern.edu (michael kagalenko)
Subject: Re: Soviet military training
Organization: Northeastern University, Boston, MA. 02115, USA
Date: Sat, 2 Jan 1993 23:29:03 GMT

In article <01GT1IM6Y24Y8WWYU0@MUVAXJ.RFERL.ORG> "talk.politics.soviet via ListServ" <TPS-L@indycms.bitnet> writes:
>michael kagalenko:
>
>>I spent some time (namely, 2 years) in the Sov.Army & can assure
>>everyone that the cited statement is not just stereotype.
>
>I also spent 2 years in the Sov. Army & can assure everyone that
>the cited statement is nothing but stereotype. I've known many
>Chechens both in the Army and "na grazhdanke". Surely, some of
>them were "ruthless", just like there were many ruthless Russians,
>Ukranians, Armenians, etc. But I wouldn't brand ALL OF THEM "ruth-
>less". There were many nice guys among them. Chechens are a proud
>nation with a strong intellectual capacity. It might be that there
>are fewer educated people among them. But the reason for that has
>nothing to do with their intellectual abilities. As you all probably
>know, because of the russification policy many representatives of
>national minorities in the former USSR couldn't get their education
>in their native tongues (especially on the university level).
>Imagine a young talanted Chechen teenager coming to Groznyi and not
>being able to continue his study in an institute or a university,
>because all teaching is in Russian. Even if he is lucky and is
>admitted to a university, his Russian will not be good enough for
>succesfully continuing his studies. Whole generations of national
>minorities were deprived of education in their native languages.
>And now, when those minorities want to secede from "the prison of
>nations", they are told that they are not intellectual enough to
>create their own independent states. This sounds a bit disingenuous
>to me.
To me, too. I sincerely think that Chechnya should become independent (& separate) 
as soon as possible. BTW, do you remember ,who is the author of the
quoted characteristic of Russia as a prison of nations ? ;->

>
>Sabirjan.
Just couple of facts :
- In many colleges (in Moscow, at least) non-Russian speakers participated
in separate, much easier competiton than Russians (for example, in the
admission exams  Russians wrote "composition", non-Russian speakers wrote 
the the text which was read once in their own words; analog to the
"affirmative actions"for non- Russian speakers did exist in Moscow universityes )
- In the universities outside Russia discrimination against Russians was
very common. How this agree with "rusification policy" stated by you ?
From: thietaniemi@cc.helsinki.fi
Newsgroups: talk.politics.soviet
Subject: RUSSIA and BALTICS in CSCE meeting in Stockholm
Date: 25 Dec 92 16:40:17 GMT
Organization: University of Helsinki

This is from Radio Free Europe/Radio Liberty:

> CSCE, RUSSIA, AND THE BALTICS. Baltfax reports that on 14
> December the Russian Foreign Minister presented a memorandum
> to the CSCE foreign ministers' meeting in Stockholm accusing
> Estonia and Latvia of political, economic, and social
> discrimination against their Russian populations.  The
> document states that it would be better for Estonia and Latvia
> not to force the Russians to return to their historic
> motherland, but to integrate Russians in the native societies
> while allowing them to preserve their ethnic culture.  The
> same day the CSCE foreign ministers discussed a document
> entitled "Shaping a New Europe," which includes a
> recommendation to send a mission to Estonia in order to
> stimulate integration and better understanding between the
> Estonian and Russian communities, BNS reports. The mission, to
> be formed by 15 February 1993, would work in Estonia for six
> months and would focus in particular on ways to diminish
> tensions and increase stability in areas where the population
> consists mostly of Russians and Russian-speakers.  Toivo
> Klaar, Estonian CSCE delegation chief, said that his country
> welcomes the idea. (Dzintra Bungs, RFE/RL, Inc.)


sent without comment by
the observer
Tapani Hietaniemi, Universitas Helsingiensis
                   urbs fennorum
From: hubey@pilot.njin.net (Hubey)
Newsgroups: talk.politics.soviet
Subject: Re: Soviet military training
Date: 1 Jan 93 22:23:12 GMT
Organization: Rutgers Univ., New Brunswick, N.J.

In article <1993Jan1.020135.23560@lynx.dac.northeastern.edu> mkagalen@lynx.dac.northeastern.edu (michael kagalenko) writes:

> Probably this newsgroup is your only source, guy - hence a questions of 
> that kind. Is Cuba independent from America ? (There's an american military
> base there, if you haven't read that before ;-)

I'm not in the mood to continue the pointless rhetoric. Logical
inferences of your posts point in the direction that I pointed out.


> Is it your definition of Hitler (writing nasty books ;) ? Let me ask you
> just 1 (one) lill' question : are you college student ? ;->

No. Is your definition of Hitler wearing black ties, like
Dudaev does :-).. I've deleted most of your pointless rhetoric.
Since Dudaev hasn't put anyone in ovens yet I assume he must
have advocated it since you say he's a new Hitler.

Why don't you try using the finger command to find out what I
do, not that it will make much difference to confused people
like you who apparently prefer ad hominem attacks and 
repeating rumors to logic.


> Note- I haven't said anything like that. Is it your style of discussion -
> posting things I never said as my opinion ?

Logical inference. You said that they're of low intellectual
capability and suggested a 'sanitary cordon'. Why is there a
need for a 'sanitory cordon'? Are they carriers of some kind
of a genetic and infectious disease ? 


> You're implying, that as soon as criminal activity prevented, growing veg. 
> is the only thing they are able to do ? You don't think really good of them :-) 

People of low intellectual capability don't normally get higher
education. Logical inference.


> Well, they still can reach intellectual heights demonstrated by you.

Copycatting too :-)


> Again brilliant piece of ignorance. You have no even slightest idea, 
> how divisions of SA are composed - and still trying to argue.

Instead of high-school level rhetoric and personal attacks why
don't you try posting your knowledge ?

> When & where I said that i implyed (...) without speaking to them
> or hearing other people's opinions ? Oh , I've forgotten- you're
> reading directly my thoughts. ;-)

More ridiculous rhetoric. If you don't know any Chechens, how
do you know anything about their intellectual capabilities ?
You either have personal knowledge or you heard things from
others. Logical inference. You should try it sometime.


> I'd better not to discuss that to preserve the effectiveness of those
> methods   ;-)

Is it original or does "Siberia" enter into these methods :-)..
-- 

	mark	

   hubey@amiga.montclair.edu         hubey@apollo.montclair.edu
   hubey@pilot.njin.net               ...!rutgers!pilot!hubey