From: rfelix@netcom.com (Robbie Felix)
Subject: Re: Apology to Dan Blomquist
Date: Sun, 05 Apr 92 16:56:19 GMT
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services  (408 241-9760 guest) 

In article <1992Apr5.024417.16833@techbook.com> burt@techbook.com (Burt Keeble) writes:
>
>
>Hi rfelix
>    I'm really sorry your dad inflicted so much punitative abuse on
>    you.  You got a rotten deal in that parent!
>
>    I'm the original poster.  I got a few spankings when I was a kid
>    and I can remember all of them.  Some I deserved; one in particular
>    I did not deserve.  I don't feel that I was abused.
Dear Burt,

I wondered what happened to you! Dan Blomquist kinda stepped in and we
never heard from you. Glad you are back.

>    I'm not happy with my career either.  I've been dealt some really
>    bad cards, and it's frustrating!  But I'd never take it out on my
>    children.  I wouldn't raise bruises and welts on my children for
>    the best job on earth.
>
>    You're right in that there are other ways to discipline.  But I felt
>    challenged to use the most disagreeable means available. He is an
>    old kid to be displaying such atrocious behaviour.  And I could just
>    see him doing the same thing with a teacher or a boss.  There's no
>    way I could allow that to happen through my neglegence as a parent.

Burt, I would like to suggest a few ways you might try so your kids
can solve their own disputes and leave you and your wife in peace.
Here are a few ideas I had that could be useful:

1. Have your children think up an outing that they really would like 
( a day at the beach? a fishing trip? whatever) and give it to them as
a reward for working out their own disputes for one whole month.
The reward is fun family time spent together.

Don't create a deadline, the idea is they may need to practice to do
this, after all it is a new set of behaviors for them! But now you all
have a goal to work toward that has you working as a team.

2. Have a meeting with them. You are all calm and mellow because this
is done when there are no disputes. Have them think of solutions to
their own problems. You write them down. No blaming is allowed, their
sole task is to think up positive problem-solving strategies. Your
sole task is to write them down. Later when they are having a dispute
you can hand them their list and help them apply their own solutions.

They get so solve their own problems, you are part of a team working
on the problem. I think that everyone benefits from discussing
solutions at times other than in the heat of a dispute.

>
>    The next day, he and I went for a bicycle ride and had a good talk.
>    I cut the curfew back to a week.  I promised to more watchful of the
>    things his kid brother does that bug him so much.  He has been
>    almost a model kid all week.  This doesn't mean that spanking works.
>    But he'll sure remember his stinging butt the next time he is tempt-
>    ed to behave that way.  And he'll remember that I could also be rea-
>    sonable when he was ready to be reasonable.

I think in an ideal world the child will remember the problem-solving
techniques that you teach him the next time he is tempted to solve a
dispute in an unproductive way.(what an awful sentence!) A stinging
butt may serve as a brief reminder, but teaching someone the techniques
to solve problems as they appear will serve them for a lifetime.

I am reminded of the adage "It is better to teach a man to fish than
to give him a meal" ( sorta funny as I am a vegetarian:-)). In the
same way it is better to teach a person to resolve disputes than it is
to remind him how not to resolve disputes.

I do not single you out on this, Burt. I think most people can benefit
from reading a few books on solving their problems with others. One of
my all time favorite books is called "When I Say "no" I feel guilty".
The whole book is tools for resolving disputes and dealing with
difficult people. It is full of great ideas for being heard, for not
getting sucked into personal attacks, etc. I have also read a lot of
books on win/win negotiation.

I did not recieve the tools to go out in the world and effectively
deal with others from my parents. They did not have the tools
themselves.
 

>    had left for school.  My wife and I discussed the punishment and we
>    are making him wash all the dishes this weekend.  I also warned him

I love it! I always like it when I get an appropriate disciplinary
action for my daughter that keeps me out of the kitchen!

>    that if he did it again, he would get a spanking, even if it came
>    the following day.  I sure hope I never have to enforce it!
>
>    Also BTW, I think your posts have encouraged a healthy debate and
>    are therefore valuable.  It's O.K. to get emotional to make your
>    point.  And it's O.K. to disagree.  I know I have certainly received
>    some wonderful mail since my post of a week ago.  My wife will read
>    it and I hope she also gains from it.
>
>    Thanks to you, and to everyone else who has joined this debate.

Well, Best wishes to you and your wife. After your original post, I
was kinda wondering if you were sharing any of this with her. I am
glad to hear you are.

I hope that your kids can learn to solve their own problems. In a few
years it will be primarily you and your wife and hopefully your
marriage will be even stronger from weathering the tough stuff
together!
rf

>
>    On with the messages,
>    -burt
>
>"He ransacked his memory for past proofs of hiw own greatness.  He
>ransacked his memory like a thief going through another man's billfold".
>(K.V. The Sirens Of Titan)   burt@techbook.com
>-- 
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