HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: TMCCART3@ua1vm.ua.edu
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: The Unwritten Law
Date: 12 Oct 92 20:48:51 GMT
Article-I.D.: ua1vm.1687EDE6D.TMCCART3
Organization: The University of Alabama, Tuscaloosa

In article <1bcg5jINNsdu@stanley.cis.Brown.EDU>
ST402341@brownvm.brown.edu (Gary Byma) writes:
 
>There has been, at various times in the life of soc.motss, considerable
>bandwidth expended on Christianity's views of homosexuality. With your
>kind indulgence, I would like to add a brief additional viewpoint
>which may be of interest.
>
>Ever since I realized that I was gay (some twenty years ago) I have
>been wrestling with the conflict between what my inner self was telling
>me and what the Bible purportedly taught. For years, I allowed the
>Bible and the interpretation put on it my fundamentalist pundits win
>out. Upon coming out, finally, I realized that there was something
>wrong with this interpretation. How could a God of love have a problem
>with anyone loving someone else? But even more fundamentally, how could
>a just God have two standards, one for gays and one for straights?
>
(Stuff I deleted)
 
>Either you have a just and loving God who has no problem with
>men loving men and women loving women, or you have an unjust
>God. I know which one I would want to serve.
>
>Gary Byma
 
BINGO!! You have articulated my feelings exactly on this issue, but I have
some specific gripes with respect to double standards. My mother, when she
has expressed an opinion on the issue (before I came out to her), had (may
still have) that annoying "hate the sin, but love the sinner" attitude. So-
called "Christians" can explain this away by saying that they have no problem
with our orientation per se -- they're quite sure (some of them) that we have
no choice in the matter. But we can choose whether to engage in homosexual be-
havior. So in other words, some of us are okay as long as we agree to remain
celibate. When I ask them why God picked 10 percent of us and gave us feelings
we couldn't act on but allowed straight people to love, get married, have sex (
not necessarily in that order, of course) they have a considerably harder time
answering. One of the most painful experiences I've ever had involved a beaut-
iful young woman with whom I became close friends (I am female also). Though we
debated about her religious problems with my lesbianism (she's a Baha'i),
she was forced to recognize some latent lesbianism in herself (she developed a
raging crush on me, I'm a little embarrassed to say). Now we can't see each
other anymore because of the internal war she's got going. I asked her once
why her God gave her these sinful feelings she can't act upon, and she said
that everyone is given a cross to bear. What a waste...
 
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: twpierce@unix.amherst.edu (Tim Pierce)
Subject: Re: Ah, Fashion.
Organization: Amherst College, Amherst MA
Date: Thu, 8 Oct 1992 09:09:57 GMT

In article <mattm-061092143948@mcmelmon.apple.com> mattm@apple.com (Matthew Melmon) writes:
>In article <BvptMs.DqH@hpuerca.atl.hp.com>, mhr@hpuerca.atl.hp.com (Mike
>Reaser) wrote:
>
>> If you're buying clothes to try to gain respect, I've got news for you....
>
>There are a number of situations where arriving in a $2,500 dollar suit
>will confer upon you a different treatment than arriving in an old
>grey sweater and tenis shoes.  Fine restaurants.  Banks.  Job interviews.
>First dates.  Proms.  Public speaking events.

Your evident inability to distinguish between "respect" and "slobber"
is, I think, largely responsible for the tone of the followups you've
received.

-- 
____ Tim Pierce                / "You are just naive and repressed because
\  / twpierce@unix.amherst.edu /  penis envy is here and it's now and it's
 \/ (BITnet: TWPIERCE@AMHERST) /  all around you." -- Neal C. Wickham
From: Minotaur@cup.portal.com (Frank - Swilling)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: Tired and Impatient (was Re: Dietrich, Madonna, etc.)
Date: Fri, 16 Oct 92 18:32:01 PDT
Organization: The Portal System (TM)
  <1992Oct14.183409.22436@tc.cornell.edu> <ldoun7INNr11@spim.mti.sgi.com>
  <1992Oct15.012809.7194@spdcc.com> <ldr7f1INNguq@spim.mti.sgi.com>

Jeff Dauber *has* to know this was a great set-up:

>Now, here's a question for you... If you were given the opportunity to
>have a one on one lunch with Jesse Helms, would you take the invitation?
>I certainly would... What about you?

>FWA

Of course, I would, but first I would memorize Michael Corleone's famous
restaurant scene from "The Godfather", and pray that ol' Heart-of-a-Pig
wasn't a film buff.

;-)

Frank
Minotaur@cup.portal.com
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: rdonahue@spdcc.com (Bob Donahue)
Subject: Re: M A D O N N A
Organization: insert anything here
Date: Tue, 13 Oct 1992 14:09:23 GMT

mattm@apple.com (Matthew Melmon) writes:
>Both Bush and Clinton are *pretending* to be Madonna - or like her. 

	BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!

	OK, OK I admit I nearly fell off my chair after reading this.

	Jess - this is the quote du semaine perhaps de siecle.
At the moment I can't recall something as stupid compressed into
something less than 80 characters.  Hmmmm..  "Melmon: the concentrate
cluelessness comes from - now available in spray cans".

	I've finally figured out who MElmon reminds me of: think
along the lines of the bitchy-queen wannabe version of the surfer
guy in "Ruthless People"...

[oooooh, and that reminds me of portable vacuum cleaners --- ObMotss]

BBC
From: dyer@spdcc.com (Steve Dyer)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: M A D O N N A
Date: 13 Oct 92 16:48:35 GMT
Article-I.D.: spdcc.1992Oct13.164835.6137
Organization: S.P. Dyer Computer Consulting, Cambridge MA

Matthew has finally convinced me by the inexorable force of argument
and wit that Madonna is the Mary Pickford of the 90's.

Wow, I'm glad we can get off THAT topic!

-- 
Steve Dyer
dyer@ursa-major.spdcc.com aka {ima,harvard,rayssd,linus,m2c}!spdcc!dyer
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: johnf@uhheph.phys.hawaii.edu (John Flanagan)
Subject: Re: Ah, Fashion.
Organization: University of Hawaii, Dept. of Physics & Astronomy
Date: Sun, 11 Oct 1992 03:03:50 GMT

In article <BvspML.Gz5@unix.amherst.edu> twpierce@unix.amherst.edu (Tim Pierce) writes:
>In article <1992Oct6.180650.810@hemlock.cray.com> steven@cray.com (Steven Levine) writes:
>
>>Just this week Tim Pierce has told us that he will
>>be 22 on November 11.
>
>12.

Which will make Tim the most precocious 12-year-old on the net.  If
not the most precious.

--John
-- 
John Flanagan                          ||"Pretty boys
johnf@uhheph.phys.hawaii.edu           || with the sunshine faces
U. of Hawaii, Dept. of Physics & Astro.|| <mumble mumble>..."
2505 Correa Rd., Honolulu, HI 96822    ||   -- My Bloody Valentine
From: anderson@macc.wisc.edu (Jess Anderson)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: an anonymous posting
Date: 16 Oct 92 23:01:15 GMT
Article-I.D.: macc.1992Oct16.230115.22167
Organization: Madison Academic Computing Center, UW-Madison


In article
<GANDALF.92Oct16132507@damon.ccs.northeastern.edu>
gandalf@dworkin.ccs.northeastern.edu (Thomas M Farrell)
writes:

(A fine story, not free of pain, but moving toward greater
 self-fulfillment, and for which, by the way, many many thanks)

I continue to think, despite the very wide-ranging selection
of topics, interests, approaches, and viewpoints, that
personal coming-out stories are about the best thing that
happens in this newsgroup.  For one thing, there's nothing
to beat the immediacy of a person telling the wide world:
hey, this is what ahppened for me, and while it was in this
or that way not exactly a picnic, in the end it really put
my life on a better level.

Coming out, I think, is the most powerful possible personal
step.

LGB visibility, which depends on coming out, ultimately, is
the most powerful political and social step.

So I don't think we can get too many of these great
accounts; keep 'em coming.  And if you're reading and
haven't come out, I sure hope these stories will help you
take this very important step in a safe and uplifting way.

-- 
Jess Anderson <> Madison Academic Computing Center <> University of Wisconsin
Internet: anderson@macc.wisc.edu <-best, UUCP:{}!uwvax!macc.wisc.edu!anderson
NeXTmail w/attachments: anderson@yak.macc.wisc.edu  Bitnet: anderson@wiscmacc
Room 3130 <> 1210 West Dayton Street / Madison WI 53706 <> Phone 608/262-5888
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: mattm@apple.com (Matthew Melmon)
Subject: Re: Culture (was Re: Ah, Fashion.)
Date: Fri, 9 Oct 1992 23:38:46 GMT
Organization: Apple Computer, Inc.
Followup-To: soc.motss

In article <1992Oct9.211845.751@netcom.com>, jfh@netcom.com (Jack Hamilton)
wrote:

> >> Good try at using the subjunctive, but you need "that" to make it a clause.
> >> I don't think you can omit it in that case and still be grammatical. 
> >
> >I'm sure you are correct.  I am also sure that I shall make many, many
> >such errors well into the future.
> 
> No "live and learn" from you, eh?  

Not at all.  I've corrected my mispelling of Mlle.  I shall use the
Biblically correct spelling of 'Jezebel.'  I shall bear in mind that
Mann's Chinese was not originally Mann's Chinese.  I shall trust that
'To Wit' is correct and 'To Whit' is not (even though it's more fun
to get that 'wh' 'wh' sound in there when the word is spoken).  I do,
however, doubt that I shall pour over my sentences looking for 
misplaced "that's."  

And as for nastiness, I have largely confined my nastiness to those
who, themselves, are most likely to use it.  Adolphson breathes the
stuff.  Anderson is a pompous, arrogant, patronizing asshole who
lacks Adolphson's sense of coming to the point in less than four
screens.  Jason is a whining bitch, intellectually beneath just about
anyone else I can think of.  I've kept my word about Melinda, and
haven't mentioned her since she started ignoring me - a state of 
affairs I find quite pleasant.  I've never attacked jns.  Never
'teased the bear.'  Never took a swipe at FJ! or John Dorrance.  
I've largely ignored Morrissey.  No swipes at Reilley.  Maybe, what,
one at Ry?  For the most part I've been perfectly willing to be
ignored by and to ignore Zwicky.  There are, I suppose, Pierce and
Donahue...  But all in all, I have kept my contempt reserved for
the first-mentioned two (one of whom accounts for a quarter of this
group's traffic, and thereby gives me plenty of fuel...)

Melmothra, ACC
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: henry@ADS.COM (Henry Mensch)
Subject: Re: Vacationing in Europe
Organization: Advanced Decision Systems; a div of Booz, Allen & Hamilton
Date: Mon, 12 Oct 1992 22:43:09 GMT

CJR10@CCCVM.CCC.AMDAHL.COM (Chris Russell) wrote: 
->Does anyone have any recommendations on vacation spots in Europe?

yeah, sure, but ...

->What are we looking for? ... some touristy type stuff, some relaxation,
->some gay places to go would be nice.

"relaxation" varies by the person, the time of day, the weather, etc.
unless people know what you find relaxing, we'll waste each other's
time taking pot shots.

he who relaxes in europe quite often,
--
# henry mensch / booz, allen & hamilton, inc.  / <henry@ads.com>
# "fight the real enemy."  -- sinead o'connor, and many others.
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: kgdykes@thinkage.on.ca (Ken Dykes)
Subject: Re: Ah, Fashion.
Summary: buried alive in the blues
Organization: Thinkage Ltd.
Date: Tue, 13 Oct 1992 14:20:10 GMT

In article <BvvA2s.MG5@scd.hp.com> mdrayton@sr.hp.com (Mike Drayton) writes:
>Frank R.A.J. Maloney (frankm@microsoft.com) wrote:
>> In article <BvrJyz.MBM@scd.hp.com> mdrayton@sr.hp.com (Mike Drayton) writes:
>> [deletion]
>> >Who's Janis Joplin?
>> >
>> 
>> Just a failed goddess. Never mind. Of no importance.
>> 
>> Can someone tell me why love is like a ball and chain?
>--------
>I don't know about that, but won't you buy me a Mercedes-Benz?

get it while you can


-- 
   - Ken Dykes, Thinkage Ltd., Kitchener, Ontario, Canada    [43.47N 80.52W]
         kgdykes@thinkage.on.ca   postmaster@thinkage.com   thinkage!kgdykes
         harley-request@thinkage.on.ca             kgdykes@math.uwaterloo.ca
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: dyer@spdcc.com (Steve Dyer)
Subject: Re: The Unwritten Law
Organization: S.P. Dyer Computer Consulting, Cambridge MA
Date: Mon, 12 Oct 1992 18:56:01 GMT

>Either you have a just and loving God who has no problem with
>men loving men and women loving women, or you have an unjust God.

Then, some people react to this cognitive dissonance with an "aha!"
and realize the the whole line they've been fed is a crock of
silliness, say their final fuck-yous to their co-religionist
tormentors, and get on with their lives free at last of all
that nonsense.

-- 
Steve Dyer
dyer@ursa-major.spdcc.com aka {ima,harvard,rayssd,linus,m2c}!spdcc!dyer
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: dyer@spdcc.com (Steve Dyer)
Subject: Re: Camille Paglia on fashion (was Re: Ah, Fashion.)
Organization: S.P. Dyer Computer Consulting, Cambridge MA
Date: Wed, 7 Oct 1992 06:58:25 GMT

In article <1992Oct7.012335.28329@wam.umd.edu> lovegod@wam.umd.edu (Donald Andrew Agarrat) writes:
>} IN is caring, caring for the environment, for society and
>} for the less fortunate.  We *respect* people of colour,
>} unless they're, er, *too* black, and the differently-abled,
>
>Excuse me, but would you mind filling me in on what it is to be *too* black?

Only the kinds of people being parodied in that article could tell you.
Now, granted, I have a few white male friends for whom it's impossible
for someone to be *too* black, but that's a different thread entirely.

-- 
Steve Dyer
dyer@ursa-major.spdcc.com aka {ima,harvard,rayssd,linus,m2c}!spdcc!dyer
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: anderson@macc.wisc.edu (Jess Anderson)
Subject: Re: Further Butchification
Organization: Madison Academic Computing Center, UW-Madison
Date: Fri, 9 Oct 92 15:09:23 GMT


In article <1992Oct9.050509.18185@netcom.com> jfh@netcom.com
(Jack Hamilton) writes:

Re: Subject: "Further?"  One *starts* with "further?"

>I just finished eating some peas (I don't count them, but
>probably more than 57) in butter (not "butter sauce",
>whatever that is, but actual butter),

Butter sauce is a low-cholesterol, low-calorie Product,
consisting of equal parts canola oil, exotic preservative,
coloring and flavorizing chemicals, and death.

Btw, I thought it was 52 peas; 57 is flavors, Heinz.

>and I'm listening to Mahler's Second Symphony (Resurrection)
>on the VCR, a recording I made from the radio broadcast
>earlier this week.  I saw the concert itself twice, in
>September.  Luscious stuff.

The peas with butter or the Mahler?  The Resurrection might
be more relevant if you'd had butter sauce.

>Anyway, in my quest for further butchification (insert Tom
>Ammiano impersonation here), I bought a motorcycle on
>Monday, a 1984 Honda Nighthawk 650.  

Girlfriend!  Can this be the Jack I know?  I shudder to
think of the next 2-3 upgrades, to both the cycle and Jack.

>I had talked about the
>possibility with several motssers, so this is a general
>announcement for those who might be interested.

I'm getting more seriously tempted myself, though I'm sure
my bones are even more brittle than yours and have even less
meat on them.  Are you letting your hair grow back for the
requisite early-80s look?

>Speaking of butchification, I don't recall having seen
>Arnold Zwicky post for a few days.  Has he disappeared
>somewhere?

Well, he *is* a scholar, so one assumes he's doing research
on future porn sagas with his cast of thousands.

I dunno about the attributions here, I assume this was
a sig quote.  I loved how it keyed to your opening theme.

>=>Why even bother thinking about works one doesn't like
>=>(and some other people do)?

>=Because opera is a blood sport, that's why. Pass the tomatoes. 
>=eschramm@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (eric)

Ich habe deinen Mund gekuesst, Iokanaan.  [...] Hat es nach
Blut geschmeckt?  Nein, doch schmeckte es vielleicht nach
Tomato.  Reich' mir den Mahler, bitte.

<> Here is a supplementary bulletin from the Office of
<> Fluctuation Control, Bureau of Edible Condiments;
<> Soluble, Insoluble, and Indigestible Fats and Glutinous
<> Derivatives, Washington D.C. Correction of Directive
<> 943456201, issued a while back, concerning the fixed
<> price of groundhog meat.  In the directive above-named,
<> the quotation on groundhog meat should read "ground hogmeat."
-- 
Jess Anderson <> Madison Academic Computing Center <> University of Wisconsin
Internet: anderson@macc.wisc.edu <-best, UUCP:{}!uwvax!macc.wisc.edu!anderson
NeXTmail w/attachments: anderson@yak.macc.wisc.edu  Bitnet: anderson@wiscmacc
Room 3130 <> 1210 West Dayton Street / Madison WI 53706 <> Phone 608/262-5888
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: twpierce@unix.amherst.edu (Tim Pierce)
Subject: Re: CABAL stuff
Organization: Amherst College, Amherst MA
Date: Thu, 8 Oct 1992 09:03:50 GMT

In article <1992Oct8.071453.10931@netcom.com> cjlee@netcom.com (Caroline Jean Lee) writes:

>So Mom had to give the turkey away
>(she'd already bought it).  We had vegetable casserole type dishes for
>Thanksgiving instead, and through dinner, my dad was going, "What kind
>of Thanksgiving is it without turkey?"

We've had lamb for Thanksgiving the last three years because my mother
refuses to deal with the hassle of turkey any more.  The rest of our
family is generally very amused, and almost no one is ever
disappointed.

>ObMotss: Fortunately, my vegetarianism at the dinner table does not
>extend to my eating habits in bed.

Thank goodness.  As a friend of mine in high school liked to say, "I
don't eat dead meat."  (The same person who'd say, when asked, "I
don't smoke ... cigarettes.")

-- 
____ Tim Pierce                / "You are just naive and repressed because
\  / twpierce@unix.amherst.edu /  penis envy is here and it's now and it's
 \/ (BITnet: TWPIERCE@AMHERST) /  all around you." -- Neal C. Wickham
From: rogerk@queernet.org (Roger B.A. Klorese)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: Denholm Elliott
Date: 8 Oct 92 21:05:04 GMT
Organization: QueerNet

In article <1992Oct8.003206.13402@netcom.com> foucault@netcom.com (Howard Arthur Faye) writes:
>>THE COURTSHIP OF DUDDY KRAVITZ...
>Uh, Frank, did you mean 'The APPRENTICESHIP of Duddy Kravitz' or
>did I miss a sequel?

...followed in the series, of course, by Mordecai Richler's
heartwarming COURTSHIP OF DUDDY'S FATHER...
-- 
ROGER B.A. KLORESE                                              +1 415 ALL-ARFF
rogerk@unpc.QueerNet.ORG                 {ames,decwrl,pyramid}!mips!unpc!rogerk
"Normal is not something to aspire to, it's something to get away from."
                                                                   -- J. Foster
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: anderson@macc.wisc.edu (Jess Anderson)
Subject: Re: Anagram program
Organization: Madison Academic Computing Center, UW-Madison
Date: Tue, 13 Oct 92 12:05:12 GMT


In article <manz.718957072@ee.ualberta.ca>
manz@ee.ualberta.ca (Brett {Druid Queen} Manz) writes:

>In <1992Oct12.181600.20654@macc.wisc.edu>
anderson@macc.wisc.edu (Jess Anderson) writes:

>>I deleted jess (perfectly good word, but no fun for
>>anagrams on my own name) and such words as joss, which even
>>I am too lazy to look up.

>If you got internet it isn't usch hard work.  All you need
>is a Webster server.  

Hon, you didn't get the full drift of "lazy." I got Digital
Webster on *this* machine ...

>Attempting to connect to webster server 128.100.1.105...Established.
>----------------------------------------------------------------------
>Definition of joss...
>joss \'ja:s, 'jo.s\ n [pidgin E, fr. Pg deus god, fr. L - more at DEITY] : 
>   a Chinese idol or cult image
>----------------------------------------------------------------------

Hm.  Possibly I could relate, I'm pretty good with Chinese
idols, not to mention Chinese idles or Chinese idylls.

>I did that without leaving emacs.

... I could have done that without even starting emacs,
nyah nyah.  Lazy.  Truly.

-- 
Jess Anderson <> Madison Academic Computing Center <> University of Wisconsin
Internet: anderson@macc.wisc.edu <-best, UUCP:{}!uwvax!macc.wisc.edu!anderson
NeXTmail w/attachments: anderson@yak.macc.wisc.edu  Bitnet: anderson@wiscmacc
Room 3130 <> 1210 West Dayton Street / Madison WI 53706 <> Phone 608/262-5888
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: thaaang@cwis.unomaha.edu (John Dorrance)
Subject: Re: Ah, Fashion.
Organization: University of Nebraska at Omaha
Date: Sat, 10 Oct 1992 00:47:00 GMT

shore@dinah.tc.cornell.edu (Melinda Shore) writes:

>In article <thaaang.718509483@cwis> thaaang@cwis.unomaha.edu (John Dorrance) writes:
>|drp@dosbears.UUCP (David R. Preston) writes:
>|>Other than recognizing the name, I don't know anything about
>|>Jayne Mansfield,
>|She did bra commercials. (They *were* pretty pointy bras [ ... ]

>I believe you're thinking of Jane "Busty" Russell.

Whatever.

--
John Dorrance * Alleged Homosexual/Shameless Hussy * thaaang@cwis.unomaha.edu

			Dark. Handsome. 6 feet tall.
		  31 flavors? I believe he's got 'em all!
From: anderson@macc.wisc.edu (Jess Anderson)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: Ah, Fashion.
Keywords: exotic fruits
Date: 13 Oct 92 05:03:03 GMT
Organization: Madison Academic Computing Center, UW-Madison


In article <1992Oct13.043440.6519@news.Hawaii.Edu>
johnf@uhheph.phys.hawaii.edu (John Flanagan) writes:

>Mangos are trivial ephemera, popular among uneducated youth because they
>taste like bubblegum.  

Oh honey, what you said!  If I were you, I'd keep glancing
over your shoulder, because the biggest, sweetest, most
disgustingly blue wave you *ever* saw is going to sweep over
you for defamation of the Smurfs' Golden Idol.  You just
wait, those folks are not to be trifled with, you don't even
*know* what sticky is yet, believe me.

-- 
Jess Anderson <> Madison Academic Computing Center <> University of Wisconsin
Internet: anderson@macc.wisc.edu <-best, UUCP:{}!uwvax!macc.wisc.edu!anderson
NeXTmail w/attachments: anderson@yak.macc.wisc.edu  Bitnet: anderson@wiscmacc
Room 3130 <> 1210 West Dayton Street / Madison WI 53706 <> Phone 608/262-5888
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: mdrayton@sr.hp.com (Mike Drayton)
Subject: Re: Ah, Fashion.
Organization: Hewlett-Packard, Santa Clara Division
X-Newsreader: Tin 1.1.1 PL5
Date: Fri, 9 Oct 1992 20:29:18 GMT

Jess Anderson (anderson@macc.wisc.edu) wrote:
> 
> In article <BvvA2s.MG5@scd.hp.com> mdrayton@sr.hp.com (Mike
> Drayton) writes:
> 
> >I don't know about that, but won't you buy me a Mercedes-Benz?
> 
> Your friends *do* have Porsches, why make amends?
> 
> -- 
Damn, spies _everywhere_!

Mike Drayton      mdrayton@sr.hp.com       Hewlett-Packard Co.
                                           Santa Rosa, California
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: glp@fig.citib.com (Greg Parkinson)
Subject: Re: Culture (was Re: Ah, Fashion.)
Originator: glp@merlin
Organization: Citibank IBISM
Date: Thu, 8 Oct 1992 20:50:14 GMT


In article <mattm-071092122712@mcmelmon.apple.com>, mattm@apple.com (Matthew Melmon) writes:

|> > Again, that's not the point.  What Dietrich was is
|> > pervasive in our culture and informs, for better or
|> > worse, what we think of as glamorous, sexy, beautiful.
|> > For instance: *Every* woman who sucks in her cheeks,
|> > arches an eyebrow, and flares her nostrils in order to 
|> > look sexy is, whether she's aware of it or not, copying 
|> > Marlene Dietrich.
|> 
|> Absurd!  Women do not prance around like Marlene Dietrich anymore.
|> Campy faggots from West Hollywood prance around like Marlene 
|> Dietrich.  *Lesser* goddesses, the likes of Michelle and Melanie and
|> *Kathleen* and Sigourney and Julia do not arch their eyebrows, do
|> not suck in their cheeks, do not flare their nostrils to achieve 
|> what an aforementioned campy faggot would consider sexy.

But the major goddess Madonna does.

-- 
Greg Parkinson                  Phone: 212-657-7814  Fax: 212-825-8607
Citibank,111 Wall Street        E-Mail: glp@fig.citib.com
New York, New York  10043
The opinions expressed are my own and not those of the big 'ol bank.