HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
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Newsgroups: bit.listserv.politics
Date:         Sat, 5 Sep 1992 11:28:00 EDT
From:         GRACZ1@ITHACA.BITNET
Subject:      Re: democratic platform/homosexuality

 >>      Are you suggesting that AIDS is a homosexual disease?  Did you know
 >>   that statistically, heterosexual women are at the highest risk (outside
 >>   intravenous drug users) of contracting AIDS?  And that following them
 >>   are homosexual men, heterosexual men, and homosexual women?  AIDS IS NOT
 >>   A HOMOSEXUAL DISEASE.  I'm sorry, I have to get emphatic -- I may be
>
> Tell ya' what.  Pick an AIDS case, oh just any one of 'em.  Trace the chain
> ALLLLLLLLLLLL the way back to its origin.  Just what did you find?


      Nobody really knows where it came from, actually.  Why assume it
   was because of a homosexual person when you don't know either?


> >   saving your life.  The reason the homosexual population was so hard-hit
> >   in the beginning of the epidemic is due to promiscuity, not the kind of
> >   sex they were having, but how much.  Part of the reason that homosexual
>
> This is more nonsense.  Homosexuals are so promiscuous because they refuse to
> accept the existence of sexual morality.  If you insist that sex with light
> sockets is fine, what difference does it make how you screw (pun intended) ?
> Sorta' gives new meaning to "three-way" doesn't it?
>

         Lets start talking about nonsense.  Just how many homosexual
     people do you personally know anyway?  What makes you think that
     every homosexual person has refused to "accept the existence of sexual
     morality"?  What is "sexual morality", anyway?  Anything you don't
     like?


> ---Robert

           --G. Racz
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Original_To:  BITNET%"POLITICS@OHSTVMA.BITNET"
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.politics
Date:         Fri, 11 Sep 1992 13:27:00 EDT
From:         CMORRISO@SNYESCVA.BITNET
Subject:      RE: Clinton Mailing List

Repeat:  I want mailing nodes and list names for both campaigns so that
I can subscribe via Bitnet.  I would like to be an informed voter.

Chris Morrison
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Newsgroups: bit.listserv.politics
Date:         Wed, 9 Sep 1992 10:49:15 EDT
From:         Jamie <PL436000@BROWNVM.BITNET>
Subject:      KAT is bad if and only if Jimbo is harmful

I have a couple of little comments that I hope will be helpful.

First, I think that Jimbo was asserting an equivalence between bad and
harmful. KAT's objection was not exactly that there are some bad things
that are not harmful, nor that there are some harmful things that are
not bad. He was, I think, claiming that the "harmful" side of the
equivalence has a kind of conceptual priority over the "bad" side, so
that it is correct to say that things are bad because they are harmful,
but not to say that things are harmful because they are bad.
Being harmful, according to KAT, *explains* being bad, but not vice
versa.

Here's an analogy. Being a hippopotamus is equivalent to having
a certain lineage. (Leave me alone, Kilburn. It is so.) Every
animal with that kind of lineage is a hippo. Every hippo has that
kind of lineage. (This is making me hungry.)

However, having the lineage explains why a given critter is a hippo.
It is a hippo in virtue of having that lineage. And not vice versa.

====
Richard seems to be right when he says that "harmful" is value-laden.

KAT says that he can tell easily when something is harmful, but he
can't tell easily when something is bad. But think of a case of
criminal trespass. If someone trespasses on my property and swims in
my swimming pool (yeah, right) while I am not home, has the trespasser
harmed me? Not in any obvious way. But I think Jimbo would say that
criminal trespass is wrong. Bad. Immoral. So he must think that it
is a kind of harm.

There are two possible responses to the claim that criminal trespass
is a harm. (I put that claim in Jimbo's mouth. I'm sure he will
correct me if my oral surgery was unwarranted. By the way, I'm
letting him out on probation.)
One is ridicule. How could it possibly harm me if someone
swims in my pool when I am not home, leaving no trace? The other
is to admit that "harm" is value-laden. We (or anyway some of us)
think that trespass is a harm because we think it is wrong.

If the latter response is correct, then KAT's claim about
explanatory priority is wrong.


I'm trying not to take sides, you'll notice.



Jamie
From: acm@Sun.COM (Andrew MacRae)
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.politics
Subject: Re: clinton and college
Date: 16 Sep 1992 02:36:31 GMT
Organization: Sun Microsystems, Mountain View CA
Distribution: world
Reply-To: acm@Sun.COM (Andrew MacRae)
NNTP-Posting-Host: grendal.corp.sun.com

In article <POLITICS%92091500034857@OHSTVMA.IRCC.OHIO-STATE.EDU>, KSTE@PURCCVM.BITNET (Kerry Stephenson) writes:
 > I was just listening to Bill Clinton on CSPAN.  He suggests that *everybody*
 > should be sent to 2-year college or trade school so they can get
 > "good jobs, not dead end jobs."

I thought I heard him say that everybody should be sent to a 2-year college
or trade school that *wants* to go.  His plan is to set up a system where
a person can learn a skill then pay back the cost of said two year course
either with $ or with community service.  There is quite a difference between
offering a chance to everyone and *requiring* everyone to attend.

Missy, I think you can relax.  Should Clinton win in November, *you*
won't be forced to go to trade school.

						Andrew MacRae
						
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Newsgroups: bit.listserv.politics
Date:         Fri, 11 Sep 1992 08:38:50 -0400
From:         KILBURN@WVSVAX.WVNET.EDU
Subject:      Re: It's always the money

Dunstan:
>Now this is a good thread to develop. I reckon precious metals will
>always have value but, for instance, we have already seen the market
>in classic cars bubble and burst. My money in the longer term is that
>the treasure will be water - we keep increasing our per capita
>consumption from a limitted supply.
>
>What do other readers think ?

Sounds like a good call to me.  Isn't water supply part of the equation in
the Middle East (especially between Israel and Syria)?  Certainly the
western U.S. is having fun with it (I keep meaning to read _Cadillac
Desert_, but never seem to have time).  It may well also be part of the
equation in future U.S. - Mexico relations.

Fossil fuels might also be a good bet :)

Kerry
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.politics
From: bjmccall@cco.caltech.edu (Benjamin John McCall)
Subject: **STUDENTS FOR CLINTON MAILING LIST**
Organization: California Institute of Technology, Pasadena
Date: Fri, 11 Sep 1992 00:19:08 GMT

                   *****ATTENTION STUDENTS!!!!!*****


The Clinton/Gore Email Volunteer Team has started a new mailing list
exclusively for STUDENT groups supporting the Clinton/Gore ticket.

All students are invited to join, whether they belong to a student
group supporting Clinton/Gore are are thinking of starting one.

The list will start out as a vehicle for sharing ideas about student
groups, but should eventually link with national campaign headquarters
so that student groups can receive official campaign materials via
email.

**********************************************************************
To subscribe, send mail to clinton-students@cco.caltech.edu with
the Subject: subscribe

To be mailed more information and a list of commands, send mail to
the same address with the Subject: help
**********************************************************************

If you know of any other student organizations supporting Clinton/Gore,
or have friends who are politically active, PLEASE forward this message
to them.  This is a grass-roots campaign, and you CAN make a difference!

--

Ben McCall (bjmccall@cco.caltech.edu)
Clinton/Gore Email Volunteer

For more info about the Volunteer Email effort, send mail to 
Clinton-Wins@mail.Clinton-Gore.org with Subject: help

-- 
Ben McCall, Caltech - bjmccall@cco.caltech.edu
Clinton/Gore in '92.
Clinton FTP site: ftp.cco.caltech.edu, /pub/bjmccall/Clinton

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Newsgroups: bit.listserv.politics
Date:         Thu, 10 Sep 1992 17:46:00 EDT
From:         GRACZ1@ITHACA.BITNET
Subject:      Re: It's always the money

>>Or is it just *your* religion that gets to play? In which case, why should the
>>numerous Jews, Moslems, Buddhists et al. in this country subsidize the
>>dissemination of your scripture with their hard-earned quarter-cent?
>
>Bingo!
>
>Notice how the $0.64/taxpayer is nothing, when we're talking about the
>NEA, but $0.0025/taxpayer is extreme when we're talking about the
>NEB/R.  The principles are obvious.


    Bingo?  This is not an analogy.  The constitution forbids laws
  doncerning established religions (sorry I can't remember the
  exact wording, after all that we've been through) but says nothing
  about established art.

>-andy

--G. Racz
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Newsgroups: bit.listserv.politics
Date:         Fri, 11 Sep 1992 11:51:24 -0400
From:         SPRG0002@TULSAJC.BITNET
Subject:      re: A light snack

 *** Resending note of 09/11/92 02:48

 >Oh yeah, and just so you can think the worst of me, I think the age of consent
 >should be puberty.
 >                                                              Kai Alexis Price

 You'll fit right in with the NAMBLA ( North American Man Boy Love Assoc.),
 give them a call.

 ---Robert
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Newsgroups: bit.listserv.politics
Date:         Sun, 6 Sep 1992 21:44:36 EDT
From:         K=A*T <MEC038@UKCC.UKY.EDU>
Subject:      Re: homosexuality

From:         Kerry Stephenson <KSTE@PURCCVM.BITNET>

> Sex with children?  "If it doesn't harm the child?"  How can it not?

I kinda think that that was part of the assumption.  How can it not?
If they (the children) cannot consent, it MIGHT harm them and
therefore it would be improper.

> ............................................................  I suppose now
> we can engage in a spirited discussion of whether the "age of consent"
> should be 16--or 6--or 6 months (suppose the baby doesn't cry--what then?)

Well, it seems that SOME religious right think 16 year old can be
executed, maybe even younger ones...

Let me see, did Richard say "if the child does not complain" or
did he say "if it does not harm the child"??  Important distinction,
won't you say?

> --Missy P 2 B

--KAT
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.politics
From: jwales@silver.ucs.indiana.edu (jimmy donal wales)
Subject: Re: the moral is there is no moral
Organization: Indiana University
Date: Sun, 13 Sep 1992 17:18:36 GMT

>Wait...I think I've got it.  You seem to be elucidating a more general moral
>principle that one's visible actions and stated opinions should mirror one's
>internal views, and that allowing oneself to maintain such an inconsistency
>is immoral, since it creates or exacerbates feelings of worthlessness or
>self-loathing, thus diminishing one's potential.

Yes!  Very nicely put, too!

>Ok, *now* this makes sense.  Two agreements in a week, Jimbo - is that a
>record for this list or something?

Yes, record!.  But hard times always have this effect.  It is much easier for
reasonable people to come to agreement with each other when there are
barbarians at the gate.  And lately, on this list, the barbarians have
been at the gate almost daily.

--Jimbo, hoping that gate is being closed now.
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Newsgroups: bit.listserv.politics
Date:         Mon, 7 Sep 1992 12:32:28 EST
From:         Kerry Stephenson <KSTE@PURCCVM.BITNET>
Subject:      Re: The War Between the Jasons

Jamie:

Okay, let's try to explain it then.  My statement: "If the state defines
'marriage as a legal union between a man and a woman, your argument
[of discrimination] is wrong."

You claim that the marriage laws discriminate against homosexuals.
No, they don't.  If "marriage" is definitionally a legal union between
a man and a woman, then homosexuals are not discriminated against, any
more than men are discriminated against when insurance coverage
includes the condition of pregnancy (a condition to which men are
not subject).

If homosexuals wish to marry, they are free to do so, provided that
the marriage is a union between two persons of opposite gender.  There
is no obstacle to such an activity.  There is no law that states that
persons expressing a particular sexual preference are disallowed from
entering into a legal union with persons of the opposite gender.

The union between two persons of the same gender (legally recognized
or not) is not and has never been "marriage."  If the state wishes to
recognize such a union in law, it will have to find a new term for it,
and define laws specific to it.

Ya just gotta play by the rules.

--Missy P 2 B
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Date:         Mon, 14 Sep 1992 09:47:32 -0400
From:         KILBURN@WVSVAX.WVNET.EDU
Subject:      speaking of library fines

. . . I was quite amused to receive, at the end of my first semester here,
a letter from the library explaining that, because I had overdue books,
they were going to hold my grades and transcripts.

I was actually amazed to find, once I became involved with a librarian,
that the "company line" at his library school was that fines are a waste of
time.  Certainly our circulation librarian agrees.  But she has to play
"enforcer" anyway.

Go figure . . .
Kerry
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Organization: Computer Science Department,  Stanford University.
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.politics
Date:         Mon, 14 Sep 1992 10:21:47 -0700
From:         Andy Freeman <andy@SAIL.STANFORD.EDU>
Subject:      Re: read my lips: I have family values

Strawman alert!
>Sorry, I do support competition, but I don't think
>that private inherently means better.

Hint: no one has said they are.  Some private schools are absymal,
just as some public ones are.  Some private schools are great, as are
some public ones.

The "pro-choice" folks think that money should be less of an issue
when parents make their choice.

>I personally think public is generally better, but
>we need to diversify the types of schools we have
>in the public education system.

Then why are you folks so damn afraid of competition from private
schools?

-andy
--
UUCP:    {arpa gateways, sun, decwrl, uunet, rutgers}!cs.stanford.edu!andy
ARPA:    andy@cs.stanford.edu
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Newsgroups: bit.listserv.politics
Date:         Mon, 14 Sep 1992 19:20:36 EDT
From:         Jamie <PL436000@BROWNVM.BITNET>
Subject:      Checkoff Hoax

President Bush has suggested that taxpayers should be allowed to check a
box on their tax forms, stipulating that all or some percentage of their
taxes will go solely to paying off the deficit.

The suggestion has been called unconstitutional, on the grounds that it
gives citizens who pay more taxes more power in deciding how federal
money will be spent, thus violating "One person, one vote." But I think
that's a red herring, because in fact the whole proposal is a hoax.

Imagine that the scheme goes into effect. And suppose quite a lot of
people check the box, so that a large sum goes into deficit relief that
would not otherwise have gone there. What is the effect? The effect is
that there is a budget shortfall, because now the fed lacks the money it
had already budgeted for all of its programs.

What will it do? It will borrow, of course. There is no alternative. So
the deficit doesn't actually change.

Bush says that the proposal would force more cuts in social spending
(his favorite targets seem to be Medicare and Medicaid). But if Bush can
get cuts in those programs, he can get them without the pointless tax
form checkoff.

I suppose Bush, or his advisors, must think his audience
won't notice that the whole scheme makes no sense.

Other parts of the campaign that I am enjoying:

"This time, I REALLY REALLY mean it. NO NEW TAXES."

"I'm more like Harry Truman." "No you aren't, I am."

And the non sequitur award goes to Bob Kerrey:
"Bush has been hounding Clinton about his draft record.
But I'm a  war hero, and I like Clinton. We have to
put Vietnam behind us."

Jamie
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Newsgroups: bit.listserv.politics
Date:         Fri, 11 Sep 1992 09:31:36 EDT
From:         todd pukanecz <CCCS@VTVM1.BITNET>
Subject:      Bush speaks

So, while channel grazing after "The Simpsons" last night (my roommates
and I got tired of creating dialogue for a Mexican "Dark Shadows"
looking soap opera on Univision) I caught the tail end of Bush's speech
to a group in Detroit.  The Prez was taking questions from the crowd.
While making, what appeared to me, an appeal to African-American voters,
Bushy gave me a huge belly laugh.  The speech went a little something
like this... [turns back to audience, runs fingers through hair]

"Don't blacks have a stake in a safer community.  Don't they deserve
tough anti-crime legislation to help the innercity, where many of the
worst neighborhoods are, and where many are populated by mostly blacks.
Don't blacks deserve beefed up law enforcement."  Here I started to
smirk as visions of Rodney King and Ice-T flashed through my melon.
"And I think a black parent will say 'I'm glad that my children can
sleep peacefully tonight, knowing that there is no longer a threat
of a nuclear war with the Soviet Union.'"  Wheeeee-eeew.  It still
makes me giggle.

I think this shows just how out of touch the President is; how far
he lives from reality.  For innercity poor who are serenaded to
sleep by the sounds of gunfire and sirens, who have limited education
and employment opportunities, who are just a paycheck or two from
being homeless, who are caught in a psychologically demeaning welfare
trap, who are surrounded by crime, drug abuse, and general despair,
I don't think that the threat of nuclear war with a country they
may not even be able to point out on a globe is a serious insomnia
stimulus.  Bush would have sounded only slightly more silly if he
had said, "I'm glad my children can sleep knowing that there is no
threat of being molested by a two-headed, intergalactic, homosexual
Elvis impersonator."

Also, the President said he *would* debate Clinton in Michigan.  He
thinks the format is fair, and although he knows Clinton is a well
seasoned debater, he believes that his handlers will have him well
prepared for the confrontation.
    todddddddddd

=========== Wake up John Doe.  You're the hope of the world! ===========
--------     /^^\    ---- Todd Pukanecz ----   ----  CCCS@VTVM1  ----
-----      /      >   --- Ag. Econ. DPL --- "What good is all the vio-
---  /\_ / @       \   -- Virginia Tech --   lence unless it is tempered
-  /________________>   - Blacksburg VA -    with limitless sex?" - GWAR
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Original_To:  BITNET%"POLITICS@OHSTVMA.BITNET"
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.politics
Date:         Thu, 10 Sep 1992 14:10:00 EDT
From:         CMORRISO@SNYESCVA.BITNET
Subject:      Re: rest rooms

The places that say they don't have one are just sick of having to clean
them up, so they lie.  My reaction would be "Well, let all the people who
don't go to the bathroom shop here, and I will shop someplace else."  If
enough people said that, it would change.

                                  Chris Morrison
                                  CMorriso@snyescva.bitnet
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Newsgroups: bit.listserv.politics
Date:         Wed, 9 Sep 1992 21:29:36 EST
From:         Kerry Stephenson <KSTE@PURCCVM.BITNET>
Subject:      Re: Where Carolyn left off

Good post Jason!

Well, I was going to post something on "gay marriage," but I've been working
all day and I have lots of other posts to read, so I'm just going
to finish them off, have a baloney sandwich, and go to bed.

BTW, my "baloney sandwich" is made of spaghetti noodles, tomato sauce,
hamburger, and various spices.

If I say it's a baloney sandwich, it's a baloney sandwich.  I don't
care what you think of it.  What's more, when I offer you one,
I expect you to treat it as you do any other baloney sandwich--eat
it with your hands.

Words mean things, people.  Whether you like it or not.

--Missy P 2 B
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Newsgroups: bit.listserv.politics
Date:         Mon, 14 Sep 1992 15:21:59 EST
From:         Kerry Stephenson <KSTE@PURCCVM.BITNET>
Subject:      Re: what to do in a world that trivializes intelligence

Janet:

Your story is an example of why the public/private question shouldn't
make any difference.  A good school has good teachers, and it produces
good students, with or without computers, field trips, gourmet cooking
days (a big favorite at my school, usually disguised as a "cultural
experience"), and the other things we truck in these days to "entertain"
students.

Teachers are trying to compete with MTV, and they shouldn't.  What they
should do is TEACH--whether they are in a private, public, or religious
school.  THAT's why I have no problem with school choice.  If you can
find a great public school, go there.  If you can find a great private
school, go there.  If you can find a great religious school, go there.

But don't try to tell me that the problem is that we don't have enough
money.  My friend taught in a one-room Mennonite schoolhouse, K-12.
Very little funding, no frills.  And near 100% graduation rates.
The problem isn't money.  The problem is that we come to education with
the assumption that we should try to be just like tv.  And we end up with
adults that read no newspapers and watch 50 hours of tv a week.  Surprise.

--Missy P 2 B
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Original_To:  BITNET%"POLITICS@OHSTVMA.BITNET"
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.politics
Date:         Mon, 14 Sep 1992 13:58:00 EDT
From:         CMORRISO@SNYESCVA.BITNET
Subject:      RE: speaking of library fines

I owe the college library $50 so I can't take out books, but that doesn't
affect my computer account, which is free and which has an 800 line.  They
also just tole me that they won't close it down when I leave unless I tell
them to or don't use it for 6 months.  I wish the library was like that,
my card is invalid whether I pay the fines or not 'cause I'm not officially
registered this semester.  Long story.

Chris Morrison
God I'm starting to talk like George Bush.
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Original_To:  BITNET%"POLITICS@OHSTVMA.BITNET"
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.politics
Date:         Tue, 15 Sep 1992 02:25:00 EST
From:         Tyrone Slothrop <199561011@VUVAXCOM.BITNET>
Subject:      Re: what to do in a world that trivializes intelligence

missy mentioned that teachers find themselves competing with
mtv.

if the teachers would only make their faces flash through thousands
of shapes, colors, and images per minute, the kids would pay much
more attention.  as it is, they have to eat these funny little blotter
papers to get their teachers to look like that.

brni
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