HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: rjb@milton.u.washington.edu (LeGrand Cinq-Mars)
Subject: Re: New Thread: Pagan Fiction
Organization: University of Washington, Seattle
Date: Tue, 18 Aug 1992 05:05:14 GMT

Now that Alan Garner's name has been mentioned, I'd like to mention
his _The Owl Service_, based around a famous incident in the _Mabinogion_
but played out in the modern world.

--LeGrand
From: cortese@skid.ps.uci.edu (Janis Maria Cortese)
Subject: this Virgin Mary appearance thang
Newsgroups: alt.pagan
Organization: University of California, Irvine
Date: 14 Aug 92 02:58:36 GMT

Okay, so I'm skeptical about it, to say the least.  There is nothing
wrong with wanting a personal sense of connection to a deity, and I
think it IS revealing that the person making the appearance is USUALLY
Mary, and not Yahveh or Jesus or anybody like that.

I'm just reminded of a so-called appearance back home.  There was this
big oval of light that popped up like clockwork about 6pm every night on
the outside of someone's house that VAGUELY resembled a miraculous
medal.  People would gather around it and worship it and all that jazz.

It was a reflection off of the timed streetlamps bouncing off a bar
window and hitting the house.

The problem I see with this is not that people wanted an apparition of
deity -- this is nothing surprising -- but that no one even ONCE
bothered to look at it and ask, "What's this doing here?" and then look
around and examine things for the answer.  They just fell to their knees
and started praying.  This tendency people have for not even BOTHERING
TO QUESTION THINGS IN THE MOST RUDIMENTARY WAY concerns me.  Is is THAT
easy to get people to kneel at your feet?

I saw an episode of Night Court once where there was a bunch of
Polynesians in the court.  Harry joked around and pulled a coin out of
the ear of one woman, and they all promptly starting bowing to him.

Yuk-yuk.  Lookit the funny native-types.  Ain't they quaint?

Blessings,
Janis


Newsgroups: alt.pagan
From: gordons@coopsol.com (Gordon Storga)
Subject: Re: That Virgin Mary really gets around
Organization: Stay Awake Software
Date: Mon, 17 Aug 92 17:56:02 GMT

<1992Aug14.160846.14765@csus.edu> altheimm@nextnet.csus.edu (Murray Altheim) :
>In article <gd6md7-.gordons@netcom.com> gordons@netcom.com (Gordon Storga) :
>><e0LePB7w164w@ailanth.UUCP> ailsa%ailanth.uucp@wang.com (Ailsa N.T. Murphy) :
>>>lip@s1.gov (Loren I. Petrich) writes:
>>>> <11190028@hpfcso.FC.HP.COM> reykja@hpfcso.FC.HP.COM (Reykja Sigurd
>>>[three tiers (one attribution gone) of making fun of the virgin mary deleted]
>>>
>>>i find all this rather odd, myself.  this thread, that is.  i had always
>>>thought the mary sightings were very nice, rather moving.
>>
>>I always thought they were fairly silly.  At least as silly as Elvis
>>sightings.
>>
>>>proof that even christians need the goddess.
>>
>>They don't worship her as a goddess, but as the *human* mother of a god's
>>son.
>
>I hate to tell you this, Gordon, but it is held in some camps that because
>Jesus was divinity, that his mother was also divine, that she does carry
>more power (ie., to answer prayer) than a common mortal. 

OK, I'll admit that I wasn't clear.  I wasn't trying to claim that all
Christians everywhere that have ever been born or that will ever be born
will/have never worship(ed) the VM as a goddess.

>                                                         You are judging
>another faith the same way (in ignorance) we pagans bitch about the 
>Christians judging us. Do you wish to be seen in this light?

I really don't care that much how I'm viewed.  BTW, I'm not ignorant of
Christianity, or Paganism.

...
>>I think it's terrible that people have their hopes raised, spend money
>>they can't afford to spend on travel, only to sit and stare at a knowhole
>>in a tree.  What a waste of humanity.
...

[story of VM appearance turning out to be just a reflection deleted]
>EVEN IF it's just a reflected street lamp, it may be that the VM used
>the reflected street lamp as a source of light to emanate her energy for
>the faithful to see. 

<snicker>

>                     I don't pretend to know otherwise, so I leave them
>to their beliefs as I wish they would leave me to mine. Even if they won't.

Hey, I'm not advocating that they should be stopped from their delusions.
Just that it's dissappointing to me personally.

>Blessings to you and your (chewy buns [for Janis])

T'anks

Gordon
-- 
The opinions expressed are my own, and not the beliefs or opinions
of whatever company you think I work for.  So there, thhhbbbt!
Message to Kodak:  Freedom for Dan Bredy.
Newsgroups: alt.pagan
From: manes@tandon.com (Dane Manes)
Subject: Re: Numbers
Organization: Tandon Corporation, Moorpark, CA
Date: Tue, 11 Aug 1992 17:45:10 GMT

In article <1992Aug10.114743.13565@spider.co.uk> alisonjw@spider.co.uk (Alison J Wyld) writes:
>
>There's no way on this earth that Hitler was a practicing, believing
>Catholic.  He _was_ a very shrewed manipulator, and perfectly capable
>of playing on beliefs like the ones you quote above to whip up hatred.
>He is also on record as saying "one cannot be a True German and a
>Christian".
>
Wait!  Who ever said that Catholics where Christian?  Christians believe in 
the legend of a man named Jesus about 2k years ago, and the Catholics believe
in the Pope!  Not to mention all those virgins, martyrs, and saints and stuff.
Looks pretty polytheistic to me!

/flame armor=on


-- 
Dane Manes                  manes@tandon.com                 voice 805-378-7899
Tandon Corporation          76376.2266@compuserve.com          fax 805-529-9033
Product Support Engineer    "If it ain't broke, it hasn't been tested by Dane!"
---                                                                         ---
Newsgroups: alt.pagan
Newsgroups: alt.pagan

elizabeth a fannin writes:
>"...and hey, i should know:  i'm often putting strands of glass
>beads against my skin, including (woowoowoothat's cold!!!) my
>midsection."

...and sometimes chains and coins too?  Are you a dancer?

Lynne "who can really relate to woowoowoothat's cold!!!" 

Xref: sparky alt.pagan:8121 alt.privacy:1736
From: marlow@egr.msu.edu (PUT YOUR NAME HERE)
Newsgroups: alt.pagan,alt.privacy
Subject: Re: privacy act
Date: 20 Aug 92 20:23:21 GMT
Reply-To: marlow@egr.msu.edu (PUT YOUR NAME HERE)
Organization: Michigan State University
Originator: marlow@frith.egr.msu.edu

In article <1992Aug19.151600.22628@linus.mitre.org> lewis@aera8700.mitre.org (Keith Lewis) writes:
>In article <5810@m1.cs.man.ac.uk>, lilleyc@cs.man.ac.uk (Chris Lilley) writes:
>>Growing grass in your own house is illegal; are you saying that
>>illegal acts become decriminalised if carried out in the privacy of
>                     ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ no, legal
>>your own home?
>
>As long as nobody complains about it.  That is, in fact, how many sex laws
>have become de-facto obsolete.  Law enforcement chose to stop violating a
>person's natural right to privacy.  

Not necessarily true.  If the SWATT    team kicks in your door
and sees you doing something "illegal" sexually, you can be charged for that
crime too.
This actually happened in Georgia with 2 homosexuals at a crack house raid.

Also, if the state police drive by, or fly over your farmland,
and they see your growing marijuana, you can bet they will come 
to get you!

>
>>"Oh sorry sir, I didn't mean to interrupt you beating your wife,
>>excuse me for trespassing"
>
>Currently, if the wife does not press charges, the case is dropped, right?
>I don't see what impact privacy rights would have.
>
 WaWatch it dude, if the neighbors call the cops because your
 slapping the `ole  lady around, your going to jail regardless
 of what your wife says or does.  By law, the police are required to 
 take to jail anyone they have evidence of commiting domestic violence.
 That evidence could be statements made by anyone at the scene, or
 the fact that your house is trashed, and the wife looks beaten up.
 After that night in jail, the wife could press addisioal charges to keep your ass there.  Watch COPS on Fox T.V. channel on Saturday Nights.  This 
 ussually happens a lot on that program.


Mike
From: canders@isr.harvard.edu (Carl E. Anderson)
Newsgroups: alt.pagan
Subject: Re: New Thread: Pagan Fiction
Date: 17 Aug 92 17:06:14 GMT
Organization: Harvard University, Cambridge, MA

In article <1992Aug17.011853.29816@news.acns.nwu.edu> Albert-Lunde@nwu.edu (Albert Lunde) writes:
>Here are some authors whose works are seen as being for children, but
>I would recommend to everyone:
>
>Susan Cooper - esp. "The Dark is Rising" series
>
>Lloyd Alexander - esp. the Prydain series, i.e. The Black Cauldron
>(I think this is a reworking of stuff from the Welsh Mabinogian)

	Along these lines I will recommend Alan Garner's books, especially
my two favorites: "The Weirdstone of Brisingamen" and the "Moon of
Gomrath".  Great Celto-Arthurean-Norse synthesis wrapped around the legend
of Alderley Edge.

Cheers,
Carl

---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Carl Edlund Anderson	            	"Hefi ek ok aldri sva reitt vapn
canders@isr.harvard.edu			at manni at eigi hafi vidh kommit."
OR
anderso2@husc.harvard.edu			- Skarphedhinn Njalsson 
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Newsgroups: alt.pagan
From: casspa@atlantis.CS.ORST.EDU (Paul Cass)
Subject: Re: New Thread: Pagan Fiction
Organization: Computer Science Outreach Services - Oregon State University
Date: Sun, 23 Aug 92 02:11:37 GMT

Have any of the readers of this newsgroup read _Cloven Hooves_ by
Megan Lindholm?  I would be interested in comments on it.
Maiden Bless
Paul

-- 
                          * * * * * * *
"It is possible to join forces, to identify common goals, and to agree on
 common action." - U.N. World Commission on Development and Environment
		       casspa@jacobs.cs.orst.edu
From: donal@brewich.hou.tx.us (Donal)
Newsgroups: alt.pagan
Subject: Re: New Thread: Pagan Fiction
Date: Mon, 17 Aug 92 19:48:49 CDT
Organization: The Brewer's Witch BBS, +1 713 272 7350, Brewich.Hou.TX.US

canders@isr.harvard.edu (Carl E. Anderson) writes:

> In article <1992Aug15.200804.22678@lmt.mn.org> ciaran@county.lmt.mn.org (Ciar
> >  Let's add another thread too -- Pagan Music !!!
> >
> >  [examples deleted]
> >

> [much deleted]
>   
> 	Jethro Tull - surely everyone knows about "Cup of Wonder",
> 		"Beltane" and "Jack-in-the-Green" by now?

How about "Ring Out, Solstice Bells"? and "Weathercock"? and many others!
I am a die-hard JT fan (have EVERY album) or couldn't you tell!

> 	I tend to think of pagan religion as inseperable from folk
> tradition, so I lump a great deal of folk music into the "pagan" cateogry.
> It would be foolish to spit out and exhaustive list here.  I will mention
> bands like Fairport [happy 25th to them], Steeleye, the Albion Band as well
> as newer bands such as the Oyster Band, Phoenix, and Tempest.

Son't forget Battlefield Band, and The Chieftains!

> Cheers,
> Carl

Cheerio!


--------------------
Donal, Sysop of The Brewer's Witch BBS -- +1 713 272 7350
(Internet) donal@brewich.hou.tx.us  (Work) bill%pssi@lobster.hou.tx.us
(CIS) 76460,1443 
(SCA) Ld. Donal Dubh, IC of Dun Bruddair, B of the Stargate, K of Ansteorra
From: canders@isr.harvard.edu (Carl E. Anderson)
Newsgroups: alt.pagan
Subject: Re: New Thread: Pagan Fiction
Date: 19 Aug 92 16:17:43 GMT
Organization: Harvard University, Cambridge, MA

In article <mTgqPB1w165w@brewich.hou.tx.us> donal@brewich.hou.tx.us (Donal) writes:
>canders@isr.harvard.edu (Carl E. Anderson) writes:
>> 	Oh yeah? :) But do you have the "Rocks On the Road" English 2-CD EP
>> set with the original acoustic demo of Jack-a-Lynn?  Or the 2-CD _uncut_
>> original version of "Bursting Out"?
>> 	Well, OK, I don't have that one myself ... yet :)
>> 	I suppose that "Dun Ringill", and "Cold Wind to Valhalla" might as
>> well get mentioned.  "Weathercock" is awesome - I love to listen to that
>> one early on a crisp fall morning.  Ahhh!
>
>:( No, I do not. I am very bummed out. I shall swing no more... (said in 
>a steve martin silly voice)
>I had no idea those recordings existed, but I do have Ian's solo 
>album, and the Classic Case of JT album, as well as a 24k Gold CD of 
>Thick as a Brick (you really can hear the difference, I have the 
>regular CD of TaaB too).

	Ah!  the TaaB gold!  Very nice, I haven't got that one.
	Yes, those other recordings exist and a couple of other strange
CD-singles as well.  I've got an address for some guy in NJ who imports all
the cool weird UK-only Tull into the US; I'll see if I can dig it up for
you ....  Are you aware of the Jethro Tull e-mail digest?  If not then send
a subscription request to <jtull@remus.rutgers.edu> right away! 
	I've got some cool bootlegs around somewhere too ...

>Although it is not really pagan, I have 
>always had a fondness for "Cheerio" on the _Broadsword & the Beast_ 
>album. It evokes that feeling of tradition and friendship, comraderie 
>even that a really good pub has. And of course, there is Aqualung, 
>side two. "Hymn 43", "Slipstream", "Wind Up" and "My God!" had more to 
>do with my beliefs regarding organized religion than other influence.

	"My God!" is awesome.  I've always admired Ian Anderson for being
able to say sensible things about both Christianity and paganism.  I wish a
good live "My God!" was available on CD ...
	There's one song which really gets my good Clan Donald blood
boiling - "Mountain Men" on Crest of a Knave.  I don't know why, I guess
it's all the references to the Western Isles (the middle part of "Ears of
Tin" does something similar to me!).  Gets me all ready to go stand on some
wave lashed rock on Skye and stare grimly across the Kyle at the mainland.
	... 'course that'll get a little cold in a bit, so I'll nip 'round
to that pub you mentioned :)

singing the mainland blues,

Carl

---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Carl Edlund Anderson	            	"Hefi ek ok aldri sva reitt vapn
canders@isr.harvard.edu			at manni at eigi hafi vidh kommit."
OR
anderso2@husc.harvard.edu			- Skarphedhinn Njalsson 
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Newsgroups: alt.pagan
From: billn@hpcvaac.cv.hp.com (bill nelson)
Subject: Re: Firewalk
Organization: Hewlett-Packard Company, Corvallis, Oregon USA
Date: Wed, 19 Aug 1992 19:36:39 GMT

donal@brewich.hou.tx.us (Donal) writes:
: >  >
: >  >These are all 'magick' of 
: >  > the mind. If you are going to post on alt.pagan, perhaps you had 
: >  > better get used to this kind of 'religious' belief. After all, this is 
: >  > a religious newsgroup.
: > 
: > This is a religious group? I am sure that there are many here who would
: > disagree with you. Religion is certainly discussed quite a bit here, but
: > that does not make this a religious group.
: > 
: > If you refuse to acknowledge physical explanations for your experiences,
: > then you become prey for those who live off the gullible. I would rather
: > my spiritual experience be real, rather than with some phoney dressing
: > by some quack promoter.
: > 
: > Bill
: > 
: 
: Now hold on a second! First, this IS a religion newsgroup. Paganism is a 
: group of religions, and this is alt.pagan

I hope we don't get going around and around about this again. This is a
newsgroup about pagans. Just because many of the discussion concern religion
does not make it a religious newsgroup. Also, as has been pointed out before, 
paganism is not a group of religions. Pagans are those who do not adhere to
the "standard" religions - or, even better, pagans are those who consider
themselves to be pagan. Whether they also have a religion, or not, is totally
irrelevant.

: Second, I never said that the scientific explanation was invalid, oinly 
: unnecessary. Richard never tried to say that his experience was 
: metaphysical, nor did he make any reference to the instructor saying 
: anything of the kind. My response to Tim's following post was to the tone 
: of condescension for the mystical experience within the scientificly 
: explainable phenomenon. Never did I say that I rejected the explanation.

Nor have I ever said that explanations were necessary. If you will reread
my response - you will note that I stated "refuse to acknowledge". This
implies that there is a physical explanation, but the person refuses to
admit that such an explanation exists - relying on blind faith instead.

: Third, where do you get off? I have never said that I would never 
: question the why and how, in fact I am rather cynical most of the time, 
: but Richard's post truly touched.

It is possible that I should have not used the generic "you", but used
"people" instead. I was not making any comments about your person beliefs.
I thought it was clear, in context - guess I was wrong.

Bill
From: canders@isr.harvard.edu (Carl E. Anderson)
Newsgroups: alt.pagan
Subject: Re: New Thread: Pagan Fiction
Date: 18 Aug 92 16:54:40 GMT
Organization: Harvard University, Cambridge, MA

In article <1992Aug18.025953.4318@lclark.edu> klotz@lclark.edu (Gretchen Klotz) writes:
>Also, the Deryni series by Katherine Kurtz.  (More magick than pagan.)

	I like these.  She knows something about hypnotism apparently and
uses it to good effect.  Anyone who really dislikes Christianity had best
stay away, as it figures prominently in her books.  I really got into some
of the wild esoteric monastic orders that she sprinkles through her books.
	Its a fair shake though - there are horrible evil high-ups in her
Church hierarchy and really great nice people too.

Cheers,
Carl

---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Carl Edlund Anderson	            	"Hefi ek ok aldri sva reitt vapn
canders@isr.harvard.edu			at manni at eigi hafi vidh kommit."
OR
anderso2@husc.harvard.edu			- Skarphedhinn Njalsson 
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Newsgroups: alt.pagan
From: fannin@news.cis.ohio-state.edu (elizabeth a fannin)
Subject: jet, ruby
Organization: The Ohio State University Department of Computer and Information Science
Date: Wed, 12 Aug 1992 19:48:27 GMT

yeah, ok, so i used "stone" pretty loosely in describing jet.  i *said* i
didn't know much about it--have been really glad to get the very informative
postings on it!!  thanks!

as far as tests:  you can tell glass beads from plastic by tapping them
against your teeth; they make a very different sound (also by looking for
white wear spots on plastic).  *perhaps* one could differentiate true jet this
way also?  and, how about the temperature differences?   while it is difficult
to tell hematite from glass on that basis, i would think jet, as a fossil,
would be less cool than glass in cool temperatures, for instance.  or would
feel that way, the way in a cool room wood never feels as cold as glass (and
hey, i should know:  i'm often putting strands of glass beads against my skin,
including (woowoowoothat's cold!!!) my midsection.

another topic:  in a fiction book i had some years back ruby is described as a
defense against negative energy.  can't remember the title of the dang
thing....anyone heard of this one?  (NOT that i am likely to own any rubies!!)
Newsgroups: alt.pagan
From: Albert-Lunde@nwu.edu (Albert Lunde)
Subject: Re: New Thread: Pagan Fiction
Followup-To: alt.pagan
Originator: lunde@casbah.acns.nwu.edu
Reply-To: Albert-Lunde@nwu.edu (Albert Lunde)
Organization: Ministry of Silly Walks
Date: Mon, 17 Aug 1992 01:18:53 GMT

Here are some authors whose works are seen as being for children, but
I would recommend to everyone:

Susan Cooper - esp. "The Dark is Rising" series

Lloyd Alexander - esp. the Prydain series, i.e. The Black Cauldron
(I think this is a reworking of stuff from the Welsh Mabinogian)

Diana Wynne Jones - esp. Charmed Life

-- 
 Albert Lunde         | Interfaith  |     *Y*Y*      "A branch on the
 Albert-Lunde@nwu.edu |  Bisexual   |      *Y*        tree of life"
 alunde@nuacvm.bitnet |  Feminist   |.......|.........................
Newsgroups: alt.pagan
From: Z57N000 <Z57N@UNB.CA>
Subject: RE: Yet more music...
Organization: The University of New Brunswick
Date: Sun, 23 Aug 1992 15:06:52 GMT

In article <ogorman.714512021@unix1.tcd.ie> ogorman@unix1.tcd.ie (Lucifuge) writes:
>Wrt pagan music and getting away from the ummm new agey stuff....I'm
>like totally shocked that no one has mentioned the one and only supreme
>goddess of us all...Kate Bush...okay not strictly pagan themes but
>definately inclined towards the mystical.
>
>
In a similar stylistic vein, one might also look at Sarah McLachlan's
first album, "Touch."

DARELLA CASSANDRA PIERSON
>.
>.

Newsgroups: alt.pagan
From: ceci@lysator.liu.se (Ceci Henningsson)
Subject: Re: Tarot: What's the blank card for?
Organization: Lysator Academic Computer Club, Linkoping University, Sweden
Date: Wed, 12 Aug 1992 16:10:38 GMT

ailsa%ailanth.uucp@wang.com (Ailsa N.T. Murphy) writes:

>i have been watching this thread in bemusement, but i finally have to comment.
>i must have some pretty broken decks, cos NONE of mine have had blank cards in
>them!  when the first person asked, i had no idea what the hell they were
>talking about, and now i just feel like i bought defective decks or something.
>whihc decks have these blank cards?  Daughters of the Moon doesn't, neitehr
>does the morgan deck or the voyager deck or teh tarot of the ages or the norse
>deck or the morgan-greer...

My deck is the Servants of the Light's deck. The pictures are very
attractive with their intense colours and the big eyes of the figures.
It isn't an 'orthodox' tarot however, as the minor arcana has been
changed. For instance there is a crescents suite. It's amazing how
well the major and minor arcana fit together, considering that they
were painted by two different artists.

Anyhow, the Servants of the Light's deck doesn't have a blank card
either, but it did have to advertisement cards, advertising other
tarot decks by the same publisher. Now, I am certainly not going to
use those two cards! From the back they look exactly like the other
cards.

I bought a book that relates to the deck: _Inner_Landscapes_ by
Dolores Ashcroft-Novicki. It is a pathworking manual for the major
arcana. It seems to contain most of the practical information I need
to get started, but if someone in this group has tried pathworking
with the major arcana, I'd be very interested to hear about your
experiences. I haven't tried pathworking before.

--Ceci
--
=====ceci@lysator.liu.se===========================================
"Vorbedingung des kuenstlerischen Schaffens ist nicht, ein Ereignis
oder ein Motiv so "rein" anzuschauen, dass es auf das betrachtende
Subjekt gar keine Wirkung hat." Hermann Leber: Aquarellieren lernen
Newsgroups: alt.pagan