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Date:         Fri, 22 Jan 1993 16:56:55 -0500
From:         MCW001@ACAD.DRAKE.EDU
Subject:      Re: Amendment 2 (Restraining Decision)
Comments: To: POLITICS@ucf1vm.cc.ucf.edu

        For some reason (one I didn't catch whilst news surfing) the decision
has been delayed for two weeks... So, stay tuned...
                                                Travlr
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Date:         Thu, 21 Jan 1993 10:11:16 -0500
From:         Ude Eko <udeeko@GRITS.VALDOSTA.PEACHNET.EDU>
Subject:      Re: Clinton and JFK
Comments: To: politics@ucf1vm.cc.ucf.edu

In a contribution to the previous question, let me remind us that John
McCormack, speaker of the House, was technically vice president upon JFK's
death in 1963.

Clinton does not have the same problem Bush was perceived to have about
Dan Quayle, by having Al Gore.  On the other hand, the fear of Gore is the
beginning of wisdom....(I mean death-accession)

Ude Eko <udeeko@grits.valdosta.peachnet.edu>
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Date:         Wed, 27 Jan 1993 03:31:00 EDT
From:         CLARK@EVMSVMS.BITNET
Subject:      Re: smoke smoke smoke that cigarette

Gee, I wonder whose "license t o lie" has recently been renewed?

-T. says:
>>Still waiting for the numbers that prove such a ludicrous claim,
>>-andy....

>What - Clark doesn't know the literature, or where to look?  Since
>he'd have to go to the library to chase the cite, he can look in the
>obvious places and find it himself.

Since -T. works in the library of a medical school, -T. knows quite
well not only _where_ to get the relevant information - he knows that
-andy is full of bovine fecal matter.

-andy clearly stated that medical malpractice deaths are "at least an
order of magnitude higher" than passive smoking deaths.  Glad, after
many times being foolishly and falsely accused of this, to find
ol' -andy in a blatant lie.

-andy can talk the talk, but when it comes to backing up his
horseshit with actual numbers, we see him shrink away....
maybe the since the argument has to be settled with intelligent thought
and not with his K-Mart semi-autos...

You brought it out - you prove it.

>>Also waiting for the explanation as to why that is relevant to
>>the discussion about passive smoking

>It places the number in perspective.  3,000 deaths doesn't justify
>doing much to a population of 250 million people.  Suppose we value
>those lives at $1M each, that's $3B, which is basically pocket change.
>If we can't save those lives for less than $1M, we shouldn't try.  If
>those people choose their fate, we shouldn't try.  (Consider it
>another form of slow suicide.)

Then I guess we should close the Trauma Centers to all the idiots who
shoot themselves, their friends, their enemies, their spouses, their farm
animals (often same as spouse for NRA members) etc?

I mean, since it's a fact that the overwhelming majority of gunshot
death victims _know_ the person who shot them (and often it's the victim's
own gun) then it's the same as your convoluted 'social program' for
smokers...yeah, kinda like the idea...reducing the enrollment of the
NRA by attrition....

While we're at it - might as well do away with all malpractice claims...
I mean, the people had a _choice_ - they didn't _have_ to go to the
doctor...


-T.
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Date:         Wed, 27 Jan 1993 18:53:26 EST
From:         Kerry Stephenson <KSTE@PURCCVM.BITNET>
Subject:      Re: and another thing

Jamie:

But all disadvantages are subject to constitutional challenge.  The
question is, under what standard?

Gender is not considered to reach the level of a "suspect classification,"
under the "strict scrutiny" requirement.  It is, however, generally
evaluated on a more restrictive basis than the "rational basis" test.
This is known as "intermediate scrutiny," but gender does not reach
the level of a "suspect classification."  (Case in point:  Rostker
v. Goldberg--1980 decision to exclude women from combat.  If held to
the "compelling state interest" requirement, it is unlikely that
race would have passed muster; thus, gender is a lesser category
(in constitutional terms) than race.

--NINAR Kerry
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Date:         Tue, 26 Jan 1993 18:29:00 EDT
From:         CLARK@EVMSVMS.BITNET
Subject:      Rush Limbaugh and STAN JACOBS

I find it interesting that STAN JACOBS places Rush in the same
category as the "talking heads groups" - and talks about how
they say things, and then _other people_  agree or criticize.

Gee, I wonder why Rush doesn't do that....????....

Please don't say "he does on the radio"...he can simply
flick the button and his caller's gone...and/or he can do
whatever he wants with the caller...you can't do that with
live guests, on TV.  I guess we can only surmise that
Rush wouldn't be able to handle that kind of scrutiny and
criticism....which _would_ come.....oh, boy, it would come...


More about Rush t/f....


-T.
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Date:         Thu, 28 Jan 1993 09:54:31 -0400
From:         The Integral Differential <DEMON@DESIRE.WRIGHT.EDU>
Subject:      Re: Gennifer says: [who cares]!
Comments: To: POLITICS@OHSTVMA.ACS.OHIO-STATE.EDU

>> >I'll go further.  The Washington Times is owned by the Rev. Moon. It
>> >is a blatantly biased paper that most people (except Brett') totally
>> >disregard.  And the Post and the Times didn't run the transcripts
>> >_because_ the tapes were doctored.  The doctoring was authenticated
>> >by CNN's audioligist and ABC's.
>>
>>         Better hold your horses there.  I merely forwarded the article from
>> Usenet.
>What is the relevance to this.  I didn't impune your statement, I was
>just putting forth relevant information.

        I have not now nor ever read the Washington Times.

>> >> But Clinton did not *admit* anything either (except the Mario
>> >> reference and that it was basically him on the tape).  And many
>> >> tape-analysts said that the tape had been "doctored"
>>
>>         Except that show where Hillary said she had forgiven him....
>Which show was that?  What did she say that she had forgiven him for?

        Barbara Walters, I believe.

>If you recall, Bill said on "60 Minutes" that he had "caused harm in his
>marriage".  Something like that sounds like something should have been
>forgiven for a marriage to continue.  But it doesn't sound anything like
>"Yeh I did Gennifer but I sure am sorry now."

        Heh, that 'ol "caused harm" must be referring to when he lost the
election for governor then :)
        Of course he's not going to say "did her" when asked.  He's much too
slick for that.  This way he still gets people like you to say "but he never
admitted it!!!".

Brett'
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Date:         Wed, 27 Jan 1993 15:51:19 -0400
From:         The Integral Differential <DEMON@DESIRE.WRIGHT.EDU>
Subject:      Re: Hillary & Health Care
Comments: To: POLITICS@OHSTVMA.ACS.OHIO-STATE.EDU

>Brett':
>
>Hey, wait a minute!
>
>*I* don't approve of HC exercising power in the White House (I couldn't,
>however, care less that her quarters have moved to the same wing as
>the President's, though I understand the symbolic import involved).
>
>And *I'm* not a man.
>
>It's not because you're men; it's because you're *right* (in every sense
>of the word.  :-) )
>
>--NINAR Kerry

        That'll teach you not to mention me as a "worthy" ally.

Brett'
(Deeply hurt)
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Date:         Tue, 26 Jan 1993 18:01:06 -0400
From:         The Integral Differential <DEMON@DESIRE.WRIGHT.EDU>
Subject:      Re: Reagan's legacy and the politics of the SC
Comments: To: POLITICS@OHSTVMA.ACS.OHIO-STATE.EDU

>>
>>         The prez has the edge.  The court can't introduce bills in congress.
>>
>
>What's the use of introducing bills in Congress if the Courts can
>just strike them down?  It's not a very significant edge that the
>President has, is it?
>
>--STAN

        The court can't rule on it if it never gets contested, and it can't
simply x it out without finding a legal reason to do so.

        Witness the War Powers Act, unconstitutional, but still around because
no prez is going to risk their political future by challenging it.

Brett'
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Date:         Thu, 21 Jan 1993 13:46:00 PST
From:         VESA HALME <HALME_V@PLU.BITNET>
Subject:      Re: 12:01 PM

Ditto.
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Date:         Mon, 25 Jan 1993 18:11:00 EDT
From:         CLARK@EVMSVMS.BITNET
Subject:      Re: Zoe Baird

Rick George says:

>Not only did Christine Todd Whitman, the person who almost beat Bill
>Bradley in 1990, confess to having employed two illegal aliens for almost
>four years (and she did not pay taxes on them), but her expected opponent
>in the G.O.P. gubernatorial primary, Cary Edwards has also admitted
>that he had employed an illegal alien for about 18 months while he was
>the Attorney General of New Jersey (and did not pay taxes either).
>
>Whitman admitted her actions, which forced Edwards to admit his.  After
>Whitman's announcement on Friday, a reporter asked an Edwards spokesman
>if Edwards had employed illegal workers.  That spokesman said the Edwards
>had not.  But then late Friday night, Edwards issued a statement admitting
>that he had employed the illegal alien in 1989 and 1990.
>
>It will be interesting to see, given the public outcry at Baird, how
>the New Jersey voters respond to these admissions.  The Republican primary
>in NJ is on June 8.
>
>I wonder how many other politicians will confess to having employed illegal
>workers.

Of course, the above example happened while Edwards _was_ Attorney General...
what was Whitman's employ during the time she hired the aliens?

If while in public office, and it does't get the outcry Baird did, .......



-T.
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Date:         Sun, 24 Jan 1993 23:38:00 EDT
From:         CLARK@EVMSVMS.BITNET
Subject:      Re: bang your head

>Come on.  We all know the job's not worth a bucket of warm virtual spit.
>
>                                                        Dan, ad nauseum


Ah!  Dan's a Jack Garner fan!

Just keepin' you honest, Dan...don't want Biden Syndrome to rear its
ugly head 'round these parts...


-T.
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Date:         Wed, 27 Jan 1993 12:32:00 EST
From:         "Carl A. Lahetta" <U952020@RUTADMIN.BITNET>
Subject:      SAFE T DANCE

   On a lighter note....

   Did everyone enjoy watching Al and Tipper trying to dance to Graceland?
At least we know that Al is hip.  Why didn't Al and Tipper mosh at the MTV
Ball?

Carl---+
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Date:         Mon, 25 Jan 1993 14:00:23 EST
From:         Tim Johnson <ST402711@BROWNVM.BITNET>
Subject:      Re:Re:Monday musings

>Tim doesn't have a problem with US not complying with items that fail
>to become UN resolutions because we veto them. Not surprising that a
>president, even a virtual one, would feel that way.
>fred

  Earth to fred.  Come in fred.  If it gets vetoed, it
doesn't become a UN resolution.
  Presidents also have veto power, though there is an
override procedure.  If Clinton vetoes a bill, it
doesn't become law.  If you disregard that vetoed
bill, you haven't broken the law.

                            -Tim
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Date:         Wed, 27 Jan 1993 14:53:34 PDT
From:         Stan Jacobs <JACOBS@125LAW1.LAW.UCLA.EDU>
Subject:      Re: Fear and loathing of the USSR
Comments: To: POLITICS@ucf1vm.cc.ucf.edu

>
> If you make it past the page after page after page of inauguration-
> related fluff in this week's Newsweek, you come upon an interesting
> 2-pager about biological research in the Soviet Union.

Sorry, NINAR Kerry, no more U.S.S.R.  Of course, I'm not sure what
the new name for today is either, so I guess it's alright.  (We can
be expected to keep names straight when even they can't.)

>
> Seems they've been working on creating a "superplague" since the
> early 80s.
>
> Just a bit:  "It was a vast operation, employing 25,000 people
>              at 18 or more R & D facilities, six mothballed
>              production plants and a major storage complex in
>              Siberia.  The goal was to take known pathogens
>              and alter their genetic structures to make them
>              to make them resistant to Western drugs." (p. 40)
>

You know, this is just one more time when I can't help but wonder if
the U.S. is giving away important secrets to the rest of the world,
via watching StarTrek:The Next Generation....   I mean, I could have
sworn I've seen this on some past episode.  In fact, wait a minute!
That was the two-part episode!  Yes, it's confirmed!  The StarTrek
series is really an espionage tool!

    Someone once said, if you're trying to hide something, make it
very obvious.  (Ich denke, dass es Adolf Hitler war.)  Sometimes,
things that go on in other countries don't get taken seriously, and
when they do hit the media, the media may or may not consider it
important enough or not to actually put in any significant position.

    Who cares if we all are killed by new Russian pathogens?  At
least we know that Hillary needs a new fashion coordinator...


--STAN JACOBS,
        Looking on the brighter side... Where it's still dark.
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Date:         Wed, 27 Jan 1993 18:49:02 -0700
From:         Ed Arnold <era@CSN.ORG>
Subject:      REQUEST FOR ASSISTANCE

We of the Citizens Project (Colorado Springs, CO) are looking for people
who could assist us in re-distributing the Citizens Project Newsletter
to non-Internet computer services.  If you have an account on any such
services (CompuServe, FidoNet, Genie, Prodigy, America Online, and others)
and are willing to help us, please let us know via return email to
era@ncar.ucar.edu.

The Citizens Project is a Colorado Springs, CO - based group of volunteers
who seek to prevent extremists from eliminating our fundamental freedoms,
in the face of growing political and religious intolerance in Colorado.
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Date:         Wed, 27 Jan 1993 15:52:47 -0500
From:         Andrew Allen <E7L8ALL@TOWSONVX.BITNET>
Subject:      Re: Homosexuals in the Military

>Well, it seems that the advocates (including me) want
>no more favor for homosexuals than say for satanists.
>So, is the military officially approve of satanism?

Actually, in point of fact while the military does not specifically
*approve* of satanism any more than it does Catholicism, it does
maintain that soldiers are entitled to practice the faith of their
choosing. There are practicing satanists in the military and among
their rights is access to a minister of their faith.

My significant other knows an active military (navy) person whose
dogtags specify that his religion is "Wicca," (wicca is not satanism,
but is more generally called witchcraft or paganism) which is
probably equally unusual, and equally unpopular among certain
folks.

>--KAT

-other Andy
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Date:         Thu, 21 Jan 1993 10:44:41 -0400
From:         The Integral Differential <DEMON@DESIRE.WRIGHT.EDU>
Subject:      Re: estimating
Comments: To: POLITICS@OHSTVMA.ACS.OHIO-STATE.EDU

>On Tue, 12 Jan 1993 07:06:03 EST K=A*T <MEC038@UKCC.UKY.EDU> said:
>> Jerry: Sir, 425000 square feet is about 5000 square yards, times
>> 8, that is about $40,000.
>Ummmm....in case nobody else noticed, 425000 sq. ft. Is 50,000 sq. yds.
>How about teaching some estimation....

        Or how to divide by nine?

Brett'
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Date:         Wed, 27 Jan 1993 12:57:50 CDT
From:         Robert Moss <SPRG0002@TULSAJC.BITNET>
Subject:      Uncl: Quotable quotes

"Your abortion can be a rebellious and empowering act.  It is an act
 through which you can assert yourself; one which can enable you to
 feel more connected to women around the world.  Indeed, it is a
 surgical operation with a mission."
                 - Rebecca Walker, in Harper's Magazine Nov '92
                   contributing editor
                   Ms. Magazine

 ------------------------------------------------------------------

Mx Walker,

You are a hateful, evil, immoral murderous b____!

                           Sincerely,


---Robert
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Date:         Tue, 26 Jan 1993 17:48:23 -0400
From:         The Integral Differential <DEMON@DESIRE.WRIGHT.EDU>
Subject:      Re: Cap Gains (the famous comic book hero)
Comments: To: POLITICS@OHSTVMA.ACS.OHIO-STATE.EDU

...
>Well, if capital gains are taxed at a rate significantly lower than
>ordinary income, then the tax shelter industry goes into high gear
>finding ways to disguise ordinary income as capital gains.  Hence,
>capital gains tax collections rise.  If the rates are then made even,
>this activity ceases, lowering collections.  Note that, like most
>tax shelters, this has little or nothing to do with productive
>economic activity.

        Perhaps.  But capital in the hands of business does tend to stimulate
the economy.
        And in order for capital gains revenues to rise, capital gains have to
be realized: stocks and/or houses sold for example.  So all that income doesn't
simply get stashed in a portfolio, to be dusted off at retirement.

        Lawrence Linsdey's study of taxes and behaviour found that lower taxes
did get people to change they way they used their idle income.  Mainly, they
put it in places that provided capital to business instead of places that
provided capital to government (taxes and bonds).

        But that is the point of supply-side: to make the supply of
capital/goods easier to get to.

>(Obviously the two phenomena take place at once--people also realize
>gains in anticipation of a rate increase and will also take advantage
>of rate cuts, at least for a while.  But this activity is really just
>an argument against changes in the rate.  The real question is, what
>proportion of the revenue increase is caused by tax sheltering?
>Since conversion of ordinary income into capital gains was a favorite
>trick of tax consultants, I suspect that it is significant.)

        The two periods I have data for (the 60s and 80s) in which declining
rates were followed by increased revenues would seem to indicate a livlier
stock market, and a livlier capital pool for business.  As a result of
sheltering, not a bad thing.  Remeber that in times of high taxes the money
goes into tax-free bonds--mostly to the government.  Which is a more efficient
way to get capital out to those who need it?

>So Brett's proposal (continued lowering of the capital gains tax rate
>until revenues cease to rise) is really just a series of tax cuts for
>the upper brackets.

        Whoa!  Where the heck did that come from?

Brett'
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Date:         Mon, 25 Jan 1993 15:05:41 PDT
From:         Stan Jacobs <JACOBS@125LAW1.LAW.UCLA.EDU>
Subject:      Re: Saint Richard
Comments: To: POLITICS@ucf1vm.cc.ucf.edu

> >

> > (Talk about paranoid?)  He had bugging systems underneath the beds in
> > the family living quarters, and could had the waiting room rigged so
> > he could hear what people were saying just before they came in to see
> > him.  In fact, when moving out of the White House, much of this
> > equipment was left there-- to be found by Richard Nixon.
> >
> Got to hand it to RMN though, genius he isn't. If your going to discuss
 illegal
> cover ups its usually best not to do it in front of listening devices whose
> tapes just MIGHT be used as evidence if word leaked out....

Unfortunately, RMN's downfall was his lack of understanding of
technology.  Admittedly (and reported by all who knew him), RMN-- who
ordered the taping system into the White House-- did not know how to
start and/or stop it...  Therefore, the system remained active during
confidential discussions.  RMN essentially died (politically, of
course) at his own hand...


Stan
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