From: schuck@fraser.sfu.ca (Bruce Jonathan Schuck)
Subject: Re: How easy was the rifle shot?
Reply-To: Bruce_Schuck@sfu.ca
Organization: Simon Fraser University, Burnaby, B.C., Canada
Date: Thu, 13 Aug 1992 00:05:45 GMT

Mitchell S Todd >>>>>  &  >>>  &   >
Bruce Schuck >> & >>>> & >>>>>>

>>>>>>Did he manage 2 shots in the 1.6 seconds between the JFK throat shot
>>>>>>and the Connally back shot?

>>>>>	Connelly is clear that he heard a shot, turned to his
>>>>>	left, and was turning back to face forward when another
>>>>>	shot hit him.

>>>>And Connally is just as clear that JFK was hit by the first shot
>>>>and JC was hit at or around Zapruder frame 238.

>>Nellie Connally saw JFK reacting to his throat wound *before* John
>>Connally was shot.

>	By the time Nelly saw JFK, the Govenor's wounds were well out
>	of alignment, and they never came into alignment again.

Bullshit. Prove it. Point it out on the Z film.

She heard the first shot, turned back, saw JFK reacting to his wound,
and then saw John C get shot.

>	Both the SBT and your latest offering require at the least that
>	Connelly's chest and wrist wounds line up. After 227, at the
>	latest Connelly's right hand is too far up and too far to the
>	right for the wounds to line up. 
>	

Again...bullshit. There does not have to be an *exact* straight line
between exit wound in the chest and the wrist and the the thigh.
The chest exit wound was at least 5cm in diameter. The bullet could
have been easily deflected by the 5th rib, and probably was. 
 
>>>	For the Govenor to have been hit at 238 requires the 
>>>	bullet be a very accomplished gymnast. Being dumb as a chunk
>>>	of lead, I doubt it.

>>For JC to have been hit by the same *bullet* requires gymnastics by
>>either JC and JFK while hidden behind the sign or by the bullet.
>>Neither happened and they weren't hit by the same bullet.

>	Why not? The trajectory analysis done by the HSCA shows that
>	a single track through both Connelly and the president is
>	quite feasible. 

Dr Shaw's testimony is clear. John Connally was hit by a bullet on a
downward trajectory. It was not tumbling. It had not hit anything
before it hit JC. It certainly never hit JFK

>       Connelly was sitting forwards and a bit to the
>	left of the President. The HSCA determined that the President
>	is leaning forwards by 11-18 degrees at Z190 (as Wilber notes,
>	after this time the President leans forwards more as he disappears
>	behind the sign).

11-18 degrees is not enough to compensate for the *upwards* bullet
track if you connect the back wound and throat wound [which are
probably not connected anyway]

> As Wecht notes, JFK is turned a bit to his
>	right from 193 to the time he disappears.

Yes. His throat is facing the grassy knoll.

> The angle between
>	the TSBD's sixth floor and level ground is [Atan (62/195)]
>	17.6deg, and Elm slopes downwards at about 3 degrees away from
>	the depository. The entry wound in JFK's back is about 1 3/8in to
>	the right of his midline, while the throat wound is just to
>	the right of the midline.

There you go. It was a 38 degree angle from the TSBD to JFK.

It is *impossible* for a bullet to enter the 1 3/8 inches to the right
of JFK's spine and exit to the right of midline in his throat if it is
going through his body right to left at an angle of 38 degrees!


>>> Further, Connelly's testimony combined
>>>	with the Z-film shows that the first bullet was fired
>>>	prior to z-160. For the President to have been shot requires
>>>	a mysterious extra shot that no one has ever reported.

>>As I have said before, if there was only 3 shots and the there was a
>>shot a 160 and it missed, then it must be the shot that hit James T
>>Tague near the triple underpass. Since such a shot requires Oswald to
>>have missed high by at least 30 feet [probably more] and to the right
>>by over 25 feet, it is impossible for there to be a missed shot at
>>z-160. It is more than likely that there was a shot at z-189 which hit
>>JFK, and for which there is a lot more proof, and a 4th shot that
>>wounded Tague.

>	To begin with, no one is really sure just what happened to 	
>	james Tague, or when it happened. The first bullet could
>	have hit the curb. 

At 160 the downward angle is over 25 degrees from the TSBD down to the
limousine. The bullet that wounded Tague hit a curb on a different
street over 300 feet from the limousine. It is laughable to suggest
someone shooting from the TSBD could have missed JFK by 300 feet.

> A fragment from the first bullet could have
>	hit Tague. 

Nope. Impossible. Zero evidence.

>a fragment from the third bullet could have hit Tague. 

Nope. Impossible. Not enough energy. Angle all wrong.

There is even the possibility that Tague was wounded
>	some other way.

Really. Nice of you to explain how and offer a reasonable explanation.
Ha ha ha.

>>You've *never* offered any proof that there was a shot at 160.

>	Like hell I haven't.

>	As I've said before, Connelly testified that hye turned to his
>	right just after hearing the first bullet. He does so after
>	Z165 (according to the HSCA he suddenly turns his head right
>	the left before turning right again). 

So he turned right twice. Ahhhh. You picked the one unlikely to have
occurred.

>       This means that the bullet
>	was fired previously to this. Also, according to the HSCA,
>	from about Z155 to Z165, a large number of bystanders stop
>	what they're doing and suddenly start to look around.

Z 155 is the first shot now is it? Considering it takes people 5 or 6
frames to react, that means the shot was at 150. Ha ha ha.

The Warren Commission had so much belief that shots were fired at 160
that they didn't even publish frames 1 to 170.

You've *never* offered *any* proof of a shot at 160, yet you cling to
that belief like a drowning man clinging to a liferaft.

1) The crowd starts to react *after* 189.
2) Zapruder's camera starts to shake *after* 189, as if he heard a
   rifle shot that startled him.

The first shot was at or about Z 189.

>>>>Again, let's look at the testimony of ...Abraham Zapruder.

>>>>"I was shooting through a telephoto lens....and as it [the
>>>>Presidential car] reached about -- I imagine it was around here -- I
>>>>heard the first shot and I saw the President lean over and grab
>>>>himself..."   [7H571]

>>>>The meaning of Zapruders testimony is clear, JFK was shot before 205.

>	Actually, we don't really know how Zapruder saw JFK get hit.

He saw him get hit through the viewfinder of his camera. He said so.

>	Further, we don't know the amount of time Zapruder is talking
>	about. The "lean over and grab himself" part could be the
>	three os so seconds between 160-225. Since Zapruder said only 
>	that he ehard a shot, and then he saw JFK react, he could be
>	describing a shot while JFK was hidden behind the sign 

If you read his testimony again, JFK 'leaned over and grabbed himself'
*after* the first shot. Not after the second! Not after the third!

JFK was hit by the *first* shot. As he emerged from behind the street
sign he was clearly wounded. That was caused by the *first* shot.
Not *your* imaginary one at 160.

>>Connally is clearly hit when he involuntarily expells air from his
>>lungs after being struck in the 5th rib.

>	Is that involuntary? No one knows. Thompsen uses Shaw as
>	a source, but Shaw is really only speculating; doctors 
>	very rarely get to see film of people being shot. The
> 	temporary cavity created by a bullet's passage creates
>	a suction: air from Connelly's lungs would just as likely
>	be sucked into the cavity as it would be pushed out of
>	Connelly's mouth. Further, it would take a lot of air
>	to open Connelly's jaw (it opens when his mouth opens on
>	"the blow"), but most of the air would exit the Govenor's
>	nose.

Ahhhh.....Mitchell S Todd MD. Shaw's the Doctor. You aren't.
If you have any proof people *never* expell air from their lungs when
they get shot in the ribs -- post it.

>	
>	Thompson also tried to use the downward dip of Connelly's
>	shoulder to prove that Connelly was hit at 237. But consider
>	the momentum. If the bullet loses 550ft/s through the
>	Govenor's body, 

Why 550 fps? 

You ignore the massive destruction of the rib, and the explosion
of rib pieces as they are blown out of Connally's body.

Hell....just losing 10cm of rib instantaneously would make me dip *my*
shoulder. Let alone the lung damage, and the 5cm hole suddenly
appearing below the right nipple.

If you really think he could have sat perfectly still for *seconds*
while after that had gone on, you are crazy. 

Connally was hit at 237. Thats when he reacted to his injuries.

JFK was hit before 225. Thats when he reacted to his wound.

JFK was probably hit during frames 207 - 212, the 'damaged' Z film
frames no one [outside of possibly the CIA] has ever seen.