From: @moci.uucp
Subject: Re: New Amiga(s) Expansi
Organization: ICOM, Inc., West Allis, WI
Date: Tue, 13 Oct 92 20:13:14 GMT
X-Newsreader: Tin 1.1 PL4

Aric.Caley@ofa123.fidonet.org writes:
: > Organization: The Portal System (TM)
: > From: Christopher_Thomas_Winward@cup.portal.com
: > Message-ID: 67346@cup.portal.com
: > Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.hardware
: >
: >
: > Just what is Commodore trying to do? How is it possible to develop
: > completely
: > dissimilar products in a single product line simply for the sake of
: > product
: > differentiation?  The following examples are what I'm talking about:
: >
: >   1: The development of the A4000 without a SCSI interface. (Obviously).
: 
: It certainly would have been nice for the A4000 to have had a SCSI interface.
: 
: > This means that an A4000 is a scaled-down A3000 with the AA chipset.  It
: 
: Its only "scaled-down" in respect to the harddrive interface.  Everthing else
: has either been expanded or left alone (expanded:  Graphics bandwidth, CPU
: module, SIMM sockets instead of ZIP's, slightly bigger case with more drive
: bays. Left alone: sound, blitter).
: 
: > has a missing interface port, that highly useful SCSI port, that makes the
: > A3000 a truly powerful and extensible system.  'But you can buy one as an
: 
: Its not that big of a deal.  How many people actualy have multiple SCSI
: drives?

True, it's not that big a deal to add a SCSI controller but since you asked..
I'm one of those people that have multiple drives and a tape backup. :)

: 
: > interface board'.  This may be true, but we all know that more devices
: > (and useful ones at that) are able to be produced when developers know
: > that their target machines will definitely have hardware built in that
: > they can support.
: 
: What hardware or software is there that *depends* on the SCSI interface?
: The IDE interface looks like a SCSI interface to the software.
: 
: >   2: The development of the A600 with fully surface-mounted components.
: >
: > The A500 is more powerful than this machine because of its sockets and
: > expandability.  The missing expansion port is another inconvenience.
: 
: Yeah, would have been nice to have an expansion port like the A500.  But this
: machine is obviously going to be bought by people who can't afford an
: expandable machine - and thus they probably can't afford expansions.
: 
: Look how popular the C64 was (is), with no expansion ability.
: 
: >   3: The development of a CDTV/CD-ROM device for the A500.
: >
: > Commodore has just introduced the A600, destined to be a replacement for
: > the A500.  Which must be exactly why Commodore has just released an
: > expansion unit for one of its products which they plan to discontinue.
: 
: Yeah, kinda stupid.  They should have kept the A500 case and expansion slot,
: 
: > It would have been a much more workable solution if they had designed a
: > PCMCIA interface to fit the A500 expansion bus, THEN design a CDTV unit
: > to plug into the PCMCIA connector.  I guess it was too much for them to do
: > something logically at the marketing division?
: 
: It probably would be more expensive that way.  They should have just kept the
: A500 or cost reduced it (surface mount, but same case and side-slot).
: 
: >   4: Producing two completely different standards for 'high-end'
: >      machines vs. 'low-end'.
: 
: Thats why they call one the "low end", and the other the "High end" - because
: they are different (high end is better).  Do you expect AGA on a $300
: machine?  Do you expect ECS on a $3000 one?  They arent that different from
: the software perspective.  Anyone who writes 2.0 aware applications will do
: fine on both an A600 and A4000.
: 
: >   There is no AA chipset in the A600.  There is no 68030 in the A600.
: >   There is no way to upgrade any chips other than the processor in
: >   ANY of the new surface mount Amigas other than a motherboard swap.
: 
: There is no way to do that on most other computers, either.  Can you pop
: out the chips on a Mac IIci and put in the 24 bit graphics of the Quadra?
: I think not.
: 
: > Who in their right mind would ever dare to develop specifically for the
: > A4000 and AA chipset when it only comes on one or two of the most
: 
: Who *wouldnt*???  All you have to do is write your software so it uses the
: monitors system of 2.0.  Then, it will work on everything from an A600 to
: the A4000 to the next generation Amiga.
: 
: > expensive machines?  No real applications will become available to make
: > use of the new chips unless they become standard.  How does Commodore
: 
: Oh, so I guess Prowrite 3.3 and ASDG's ADPro don't exist then, huh?  I guess
: I was just imagining it when I saw ADPro convert a 24 bit picture into HAM-8
: and display it in hi-res on an A4000 (and it looked mighty nice, too).
: 
: > Gives us all lots of reasons to buy the 4000, doesn't it?
: 
: Well, if you like 040's, and 262144 colour graphics, than thats a good reason
: to buy an A4000.  If you dont like speed, and colours, get an A3000 for half
: the price.
: 
: > Three technical questions to Commodore: (postage paid to
: >                                         cbmvax.commodore.com)
: >
: >   1: The MC68060 will probably be 64 bit bus, 128 bit internal CPU.
: >
: > Does the removable processor chip then make sense?  Would you not require
: > an adapter board with the chip anyway, which would be what the CPU slot is
: > for (this assumes the removable processor module is on the CPU socket
: > itself
: > and not the CPU expansion slot, like it would be in an A3000)?
: 
: I'm not quite sure what you are trying to say.  The A4000's CPU module plugs
: into the CPU slot of the A4000's motherboard.  This CPU slot is the same as
: the A3000's.  The A4000 is like an A3000 with a 68040 accelerator card
: installed, except that there isnt an unused '030/'882 on the motherboard.
: 
: >   2: Zorro IV slots?
: >
: > Would it even be useful to come up with a Zorro IV standard for a 64-bit
: > bus
: > and if so would it be possible to do that on 100 pins by multiplexing a
: > few
: > of them like Zorro III (I realize this requires some assumptions about
: > 68060
: > configuration).  Put another way, is it possible to have Zorro II/III/IV-
: > compatible expansion slots?
: 
: Do we even really need such a thing?  We havent even begun to tap the power
: of Zorro III yet.  I dont think we will need a 64 bit bus for some time to
: come (assuming that there will be a 64 bit CPU in the Motorola series).
: 
: >   3: Why not include chipset-expansion cards?
: >
: > Would it be so much more expensive, if you have to surface-mount the
: > chips,
: > to at least allow them to be upgraded by putting them on an expansion
: > card?
: > That way you just rip out the chipset board and install a new one to
: > upgrade.
: 
: It could be done.  In fact I think this is a pretty good idea.  Of course,
: it doesnt leave very much on the motherboard.  And how are you going to
: squeeze a video port, stereo RCA jacks, serial port, joystick ports, and
: diskdrive port on the end of a card?  It would have to be a really odd
: shaped card.
: 
: I think a better idea is to have RTG in the OS, so that you can plug in new
: video cards and use them.
: 
: > Disclaimer: I have never seen an A4000, and have only heard of it through
: > postings around here, where I got my information.  Correction appreciated
: 
: Whatever you do, dont listen to Marc Barret.
: 
: 
: --- Maximus 2.00
-- 
|      //                           |                                       |
|     //  Jerry Ponko               |    ICOM, Inc.        (414) 321-8000   |
| \\ //  (jerry, root, postmaster)  |    2424 S. 102nd St.                  |
|  \X/   UUCP: ...uwm!moci!root     |    West Allis, WI 53227               |