From: joe@athena.mit.edu (Joseph C Wang)
Subject: Re: the name?
Organization: Massachusetts Institute of Technology
Date: Mon, 14 Dec 1992 20:43:16 GMT

In article <1992Dec14.170149.22246@cbnews.cb.att.com> liaohen@cbnews.cb.att.com (Heng-Hsin Liao) writes:
>If Taiwanese finally tell the world that "We are Taiwan. We are no
>ROC. Taiwan is not part of China." Do you think "Taiwan is part of China"
>will still be followed world wide?

I don't see how you are dealing with the contradiction in what you are
saying.  You talk about the world accepting the decision of the
Taiwanese, but right now the decision of the Taiwanese seems to be "no
changes in governmental identity."

If you can't accept the situation now, then how to do you expect the
world to accept the situation if it changes.

>We, the people in Taiwan, define what is Taiwan. It's not anybody else.
>The rest of the world definitely can recognize or neglect this fact. But
>they just cannot change the definition made by us.

And if Taiwanese decide "two China" or "status quo"?  Again, you seem
to accept the decision of Taiwanese regarding their governmental
identity ONLY if it is the same as what you think it should be.

There's nothing inherently wrong with believing "Taiwan is not part of
China, no matter what."  The problem comes in that you complain that
other people believe "Taiwan is part of China, no matter what."

There seems to be a big inconsistency in your beliefs.

>Nothing is free. To be an independent country means we really need to be
>"independent". Assume the worst case, nobody cares you are dead or alive.
>Be proud of being a Taiwanese. If China really want to invade, don't
>hesitate, give them a blow.

If you think "Taiwan must be independent, no matter what" then there
is no ground for argument.  The trouble with that attitude is that it
is impossible to convince people to support you unless they already do
indeed support you.  Right now, support for TI in Taiwan not
sufficient to change the government, if you stay with that attitude
then you will lose.

In order to win this argument, you have to convince people who do not
care about ROC/ROT that your side is better for them.  This means
talking about the costs and benefits of the change.

The benefit that have been claims for TI are that it's easier for
Taiwan to get diplomatic recognition.  I have tried to refute those
arguments elsewhere.  Also, it's not been made clear what benefits
real recognition has over "pseudo-recogition."  Claims have been made
that real recognition will help Taiwan protect assets and overseas
citizens, but can anyone list a single specific incident in the past
ten years in which real recognition would have helped?

The costs are possible Mainland invasion, and the end of Taiwanese
business opportunities on the Mainland.  Right now, the PRC offers a
favorable business environment to Taiwanese because "We are all
Chinese."  If Taiwan is "just another country," then the Mainland has
no reason to favor Taiwanese businessmen over Japanese, American, or
European.  Moreover, if Taiwan is "just another country," the PRC can
then seize all Taiwanese investment on the Mainland because PRC has
no obligation to help "foreigners."

Again, these arguments will not convince people who believe "TI no
matter what" or "Unification no matter what."  My suspicion is that
both of those groups are a minority on Taiwan, and that most people
will favor whatever policies benefit Taiwan economomically and
militarily.

Right now, that seems to mean "two China."

>Why, Taiwan is still Taiwan. Every penny our people make is still a penny.
>Don't tell me that billions of dollars that 20 million people earned belong
>to ROC. It's people who own the country, the government. It's not ROC that
>owns the people, the property.

And you don't seem to allow those people to choose "two China."