HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: golchowy@alchemy.chem.utoronto.ca (Gerald Olchowy)
Subject: Re: Senate Interrogation
Organization: University of Toronto Chemistry Department
Distribution: can
Date: Thu, 12 Nov 1992 12:35:55 GMT

In article <schuck.721542163@sfu.ca> Bruce_Schuck@sfu.ca writes:
>golchowy@alchemy.chem.utoronto.ca (Gerald Olchowy) writes:
>
>>Why should anyone believe that the CBC's ombudsman's credentials are
>>any better (or worse) than Brian McKenna's...
>
>>The CBC bureaucracy has basically decided it wants to become a
>>propaganda arm of the Canadian government.
>
>A report by the Ombudsman challenging the facts makes up for 3 hours
>of heavily promoted prime time? Ha.
>
>>The story is that CBC succombed to political intimidation.
>
>Really? The story is that the CBC Ombudsman wrote a report supporting
>some of the allegations of factual inaccuracy. I haven't seen any
>programming changes or 3 hours of prime time given to the veterans.
>

Today's Globe and Mail contains an excerpt from the CBC ombudsman's
report, and McKenna's response to its criticisms...(Nov.12,1992)

>>This does not make it moral...war is not a pleasant business, and
>>because we deemed that evil and immoral acts were necessary on our
>>part to win the war, doesn't mean that we have to deny the fact that
>>they were evil and immoral acts to assuage our consciences and our
>>guilt. 
>
>Evil? Immoral? You are now deeming the bombing of factories producing
>war material evil? Did you expect England to do nothing while London
>got bombed by V-1's, V-2's, Stukas and Heinkels? 
>

No...I said "we (the Allies) deemed that evil and immoral acts (on
our part) were necessary to win the war"...war is basically an evil
business...because we sometimes find ourselves unable to avoid it,
does not make it morally acceptable or justifiable.  

>
>>The Senate was successful...authorized cleansed history will be
>>preserved.  
>
>Please let me know which veterans group was fighting for 'cleansed'
>history and what they said. I'm curious to hear.
>
>>We only need concern ourselves with the war crimes of
>>our enemies, not our own.
>
>War itself is not a war crime, but it is abhorrent.
>

Intentionally fire-bombing cities is a war crime...in my opinion...
but as with all wars, the war crimes of the victors go unpunished.

>Please let me know which "war crimes" of the allies you are talking
>about, since none come to mind that even come close to the war crimes
>of the Third Reich.

Because the other side committed greater and more numerous atrocities
than our side did, does not give moral sanction to the atrocities we
committed.  No wonder it is so hard to find a peaceful solution in
Yugoslavia...even in Canada, 50 years after the end of WWII, we cannot
even take a critical look at our own participation in that war without
putting on the rose-colored propaganda glasses.

Gerald
Organization: Queen's University at Kingston
Date: Wed, 11 Nov 1992 13:42:14 EDT
From: John G. Spragge <SPRAGGEJ@QUCDN.QueensU.CA>
Newsgroups: can.politics
Subject: Re: The partition of Quebec (from an APEC pamphlet)
 <CLAMEN.92Nov9222301@BYRON.SP.CS.CMU.EDU>
 <1992Nov10.163452.495@bmerh85.bnr.ca> <schuck.721424426@sfu.ca>
 <CLAMEN.92Nov10195055@BYRON.SP.CS.CMU.EDU> <schuck.721445040@sfu.ca>
 <CLAMEN.92Nov11002646@BYRON.SP.CS.CMU <schuck.721472936@sfu.ca>

Since this thread has turned to dealing with negotiations, I would
like to point out that dealing with positions makes little sense,
since (particularly in this case) the positions rest on little
but some pretty strong negative emotions.

Fortunately, studies of the theory of negotiation have produced an
alternative to bargaining over positions. Its inventors call it
"principled negotiation", and describe it in a book called "getting
to yes". You can probably find it in most university bookstores.

This practise calls for focusing on interests (what each side wants)
and principles (the values behind what they want) rather than positions.
In this case, negotiators would not start with a demand for one side
or the other to take up a certain percentage of the debt; they would
instead focus on the interests each side has (getting along, having a
viable credit rating, etc.). They would also focus on principles,
such as the right of self-determination, individual rights, and so on
to decide who got what real estate, who got what citizenship, and so
on.

All in all, a better approach, and one that would avoid the possibility
of violence, much better than the posturing some people are advocating
here.

Your culture will adapt to service ours - Columbus to Natives, 1492
Your culture will adapt to service ours - Borg to Captain Picard, 24th C.

standard disclaimers apply ----------------------- John G. Spragge
From: riese@litsun.epfl.ch (Marc Riese)
Newsgroups: can.politics
Subject: Re: "canada is like a dull party"
Date: 10 Nov 92 10:59:23 GMT


David Meadows writes:
>Something that we, in Canada, and those who observe us from across the
>pond or across the 49th parallel, should realize is that the information
>the world gets about Canada is nowhere near what we might expect.

What exactly is it that you might "expect", as you say?
And what are the exact justifications that allow you to expect that?
Perhaps you could compare your expectations with what others
might expect of Canadians as opposed to what Canadians actually know.

>Near as I can tell, world economists and investment `experts'
>only know about Canada what they happen to pick up off Reuters
>newswire, or perhaps off UPI.

I suppose that depends what you read.
I think that "The Economist" is among the best journals for
in-depth, well-researched reporting and high-quality analysis.
Compared to it, "Maclean's" is a news-free rag with lots of photos and
stories about celebrities who may have some vague connection with Canada.
If you don't believe me, buy an issue of each and compare them yourself.
It makes one appreciate the CBC.

>Fortunately, however, the vast majority of Canadians are confident enough
>of the values inherent in their citizenship that they can rise above media
>and government inspired attempts to force views upon them.
>Unfortunately, the rest of the world just doesn't see that.

Very heart-warming. When Canadians are criticised, that means
that the journalists are just trying "to force views upon them".
However, we Canadians are too smart to listen.
Wishing bad news away is comforting, but
you did not respond to the journalist's criticisms.

Marc Riese
Ecole Polytechnique Federale de Lausanne
Suisse
Newsgroups: can.politics,soc.culture.canada
From: thood@corvus.matrox.com (Thomas Hood)
Subject: Canada vs. Quebec Pension Plan
Organization: Matrox Ltd.
Date: Wed, 4 Nov 92 15:44:09 GMT

alain@elevia.uniforum.qc.ca (W.A.Simon) writes:

>	You don't even know half of it...
>	Ask your favorite elected representative about
>	our Canada Pension Plan... where is the money?
>	How come the Auditor General is not even allowed
>	to ask about it?  

This is something worth discussing.  As far as I know, the Quebec
pension plan premiums have been invested by the Caisse de Depot,
whereas Canada pension plan premiums have been spent.

In other words, pension obligations are a hidden part of Canada's
debt.

Does anyone have more information on this subject?

--
Thomas Hood                                                     thood@matrox.com
Newsgroups: can.politics
From: schuck@fraser.sfu.ca (Bruce Jonathan Schuck)
Subject: Re: Plan B
Reply-To: Bruce_Schuck@sfu.ca
Organization: Simon Fraser University, Burnaby, B.C., Canada
Date: Mon, 9 Nov 1992 19:46:47 GMT

cbbrowne@csi.uottawa.ca (Christopher Browne) writes:

>In article <schuck.721292081@sfu.ca> Bruce_Schuck@sfu.ca writes:
>>cbbrowne@csi.uottawa.ca (Christopher Browne) writes:
>>
>>>In article <schuck.721245605@sfu.ca> Bruce_Schuck@sfu.ca writes:
>>
>>>You don't like Quebec, and like the idea of hurting its people.
>>>That's hatred in my books.  Not a good way or reason to start a new
>>>country.
>>
>>It's not me or BC threatening to tear this country apart every time BC
>>doesn't get its way. It's Quebec.

>Very good.  Changing the subject.  You're getting defensive, because
>you don't actually want to respond to what said.  

>I've asked (indirectly) a number of times whether hatred towards
>Quebec/Quebeckers is a component in your arguments.  It APPEARS to be,
>and I want to give you the opportunity to deny that there's hatred
>involved.  You haven't cooperated by either acknowledging or denying
>that hatred is involved.  So which is it?  (Remember that a refusal to
>answer is often interpreted as "Yes, but it would look bad if I
>admitted it!")

Ok. Do I hate individuals in Quebec? Absolutely not.
Do I hate the nationalists in Quebec for blackmailing Canada. Yes.

>When you start talking about BC separating, that's not something
>Quebec chose.  That's something YOU are choosing.  The separation of
>BC would have surprisingly similar effects on Canada to the separation
>of Quebec.

>So, what's immoral for Quebec is perfectly acceptable for BC?

The proper response for BC to Quebecs separation -- if Quebec MP's,
PM , Senators, senior civil servants etc are not removed from office
-- is to separate unilaterally and immediately. It would be stupid to stay.

>If it is right for Canada to be ruthless towards a separatist Quebec,
>then why should Canada NOT be ruthless towards a separatist BC?

Since your argument is to be *not* ruthless, why threaten BC with
ruthlessness? Why kill the messenger?

>"They started it" isn't an acceptable answer, by the way.

Yes it is. I wouldn't be talking about it if was not a possiblity and
if they hadn't initiated it. It wouldn't even come up in converstion
or thinking.

>If people let anger rule their decisions concerning "separation", they
>WILL make irrational decisions, and big things (like pension funds)
>will get trampled on and lost along the way.  Pension funds are merely
>one example; I'm sure there's others.

If you think British Columbians will *allow* Quebeckers to negotiate
for us or rule us after a PQ government is elected with a *mandate*
for secession, then you are being irrational.


-- 
============================================================================
"We've got to get bigger guns" -- Dick Durkin                  schuck@sfu.ca
============================================================================
Newsgroups: can.politics
From: marky@engin.umich.edu (Mark Anthony Young)
Subject: Re: Plan S -- Quebec separation
Date: Mon, 09 Nov 92 23:48:42 EST
Organization: University of Michigan Engineering, Ann Arbor

Bruce_Schuck@sfu.ca writes:
>marky@engin.umich.edu (Mark Anthony Young) writes:
>
>>In my opinion, the only reasonable thing for the federal government
>>to do in the case of a unilateral declaration of independence by
>>one of the provinces is to ask all federal office holders/employees
>>to choose between the two countries -- and perhaps to require those
>>choosing Canada to renew their oath of loyalty/office.  Only those
>>choosing the new country would have to resign.  
>
>Considering that half the civil service operates out of Hull that
>would be impossible. It's laughable to think Canadians would be let
>themselves be governed by foreign citizens from a foreign country.
>
Those that chose to be foreigners would be foreigners.  Those that
chose to be Canadians would be Canadians.  Is that so hard to
understand?  Just because someone was born or lives in Quebec does
not mean that they would choose Quebec over Canada when the time
came.

Besides, how would what I suggest be any more impossible than what
you suggest (if you'll accept degrees of absolutes)?  Under what
I suggest, you'd have to re-swear thousands of people into their
jobs.  Under what you suggest, you have to hire thousands of new
people and swear them into those same jobs.  My system is only 
about half as impossible as yours.

...mark young
Xref: sparky can.politics:9464 soc.culture.canada:8379
Organization: Queen's University at Kingston
Date: Sun, 8 Nov 1992 00:38:08 EDT
From: John G. Spragge <SPRAGGEJ@QUCDN.QueensU.CA>
Newsgroups: can.politics,soc.culture.canada
Subject: Re: Releasing Results B4 the polls close (was Re: Referendum and the w
 <1992Nov5.021059.1037@ee.ubc.ca> <1di0rtINNrpl@iskut.ucs.ubc.ca>

Interestingly, the US. networks respect Canadian law on this matter.
They didn't publish Canadian voting results until the polls had closed.
Their stated reasoning: it's our election. Americans who liked the idea
took out an ad in the NY times to plead for the same courtesy to US
voters.

The problem with this comes less from the West Coast voters who switch
their votes than from those who just stay home. The ones who reason
that they'll have to stand in a long line, and the $#^&@!!'s (won/lost)
anyway and don't vote neglect their civic duties.

I believe, however, that this kind of censorship makes no sense. The
government should simply seal the ballot boxes until the polls close
everywhere (send the scrutineers out for coffee). It'll lower the
E-day ratings for the CBC in Atlantic Canada, but I think it would help
reduce western alienation.

Your culture will adapt to service ours - Columbus to Natives, 1492
Your culture will adapt to service ours - Borg to Captain Picard, 24th C.

standard disclaimers apply ----------------------- John G. Spragge
Newsgroups: can.politics,soc.culture.canada,can.followup
Newsgroups: can.jobs,misc.jobs.offered
Subject: (Agency)PC/SW Technical Support\Vancouver Canada\BACS\DBASE\FOXPRO\C
From: jtrumbull@coast.almanac.bc.ca
Date: Fri, 06 Nov 92 12:04:55 PST
Distribution: ca
Organization: Coast Personnel Services Ltd., Nanaimo, B.C.

Reference #JO1106A

**Posted as was requested by Arnie Marks - Staffing Coordinator**

*******************************Please Note**************************************
We are an employer fee paid firm; there is no charge to candidates.  Companies
pay our fees to provide them with qualified, experienced personnel.  Therefore,
we are unable to assist recent grads in their search for gainful employment
unless they have previous industry experience.  Canadian candidates and/or
landed immigrant status candidates with employment authorizations will be given
first consideration for employment.
********************************************************************************

Type of Industry: Software Vendor and Distributor
Functional Job Title: PC/SW  Technical Support
Location: Vancouver B.C. Canada
Company Benefits: Medical, Dental, Stock
Salary Range: 30-45K


Duties:

Provide telephone technical software support to end users and non technical
sales force (Hotline or Helpdesk).  Answer and troubleshoot problems over
the telephone.


Essential Skills:

Telephone support experience (at least one year)
PC hardware knowledge (3 to 4 years experience)
Programmed in dBASe, Foxpro, Clipper and/or other databases
Exposure to Mainframe data downloading issues


Desired Skills:

Understanding and experience with auditing procedures


Qualifications:

Ideal person is a CA, CGA or an articling student
Bachelor's degree or diploma in Computer Science or who had minored in
Computer Science

Should you have the necessary qualifications and are interested in being
considered for this position, contact:

Arnie Marks
Staffing Coordinator
(see sig.)

All email resumes in ASCII only.  They will be forwarded to Arnie Marks.
Please quote Reference #JO1106A in your response.

jtrumbull@coast.almanac.bc.ca   Jim Trumbull
Coast Personnel Services Ltd., 103 - 65 Front Street, Nanaimo, B.C. V9R 5H9
Personnel Placement for Western Canada, From the Heart of Vancouver Island
1-604-753-4465 (Voice)                                 1-604-753-2278 (Fax)
Xref: sparky can.jobs:707 misc.jobs.offered:13639
Newsgroups: can.jobs,misc.jobs.offered
Subject: (Agency) Senior Systems Analyst\HP\CASE\MPE\UNIX\Central BC Canada
From: vincew@coast.almanac.bc.ca
Date: Fri, 13 Nov 92 12:37:53 PST
Distribution: ca
Organization: Coast Personnel Services Ltd., Nanaimo, B.C.



**Partial Repost**

New graduates: Employers utilize the college placement offices to hire new
graduates. They do not employ recruiting firms for this purpose. We are
unable to assist recent graduates.

Reference #JO1113A

Functional Job Title: Systems Analyst - Senior
Education: Degree or Equivalent
Industry: Integrated Forest Company
Company Benefits: Comprehensive
Salary: $55,700 - mid point
Interview: Company Paid
Relocation: Company Paid

The candidate will provide leadership to team members in the development and
support of computerized systems, and should have the capability of management
succession.

Qualifications include:

- demonstrated ability conceptualizing and documenting business environment.
- expertise with structured design and development, preferably using CASE
  methodology.
- proven skills in the coaching and development of team members - a mentor.
- relational database experience.
- experience in pulp or forestry a plus, but not essential.
- environment is HP, running both MPE and UNIX.

Our client is a major employer with a good reputation in the industry.
Location is in the Interior of B.C. and offers a wide range of activities plus
low cost housing.

The company offers relocation, hotel until home purchase, legal fees on sale &
purchase, $2,000.00 mortgage penalty, merit and performance reviews annually,
share participation, relocation and a paid interview trip.

For consideration for this position, contact (see sig.)

Telephone or FAX, snail mail or email resumes (ASCII format only).
Please include reference #JO1113A in your posting.

vincew@coast.almanac.bc.ca   Vincent Willden
Coast Personnel Services Ltd., 103 - 65 Front Street, Nanaimo, B.C. V9R 5H9
Personnel Placement for Western Canada, From the Heart of Vancouver Island
1-604-753-4465 (Voice)                                 1-604-753-2278 (Fax)
Newsgroups: can.jobs
From: icpa@iat.holonet.net (Tony Rodriguez)
Subject: International Software Jobs
Organization: HoloNet (BBS: 510-704-1058)
Date: Fri, 13 Nov 1992 20:57:05 GMT

	The International Computer Professional Association is a member 
supported organization for experienced software professionals who want to
work overseas. By using our network of over 750 technical recruitment firms 
in the US and abroad, members can find contract and permanent software jobs
throughout the world. If you are interested in working overseas, contact us
including your name, address, and evening phone number and we will send you
information on membership with the ICPA.


Sincerely 

Tony Rodriguez

Director ICPA


International Computer Professional Association
2261 Market Street, Suite 309
San Francisco, CA 94114
USA

Tel: (415) 695 - 7618
Fax: (415) 252 - 5769

email icpa@holonet.net



Newsgroups: can.jobs,misc.jobs.misc
From: cbl@bcrks93.bnr.ca (Clifford Liem)
Subject: Re: Interview preparation (H2H)
Organization: Bell-Northern Research Ltd.,
Date: Mon, 9 Nov 1992 15:21:42 GMT


> 
> A survey of managers showed that fully 75% think that they are in
> the top 90% when it comes to judging people.  Since this is flat out
> impossible, ...
>

Ooops... 75% is usually less than 90%, so I think this is quite possible.

Perhaps you meant they think they are in the top 10% ??


cl
Xref: sparky can.jobs:694 misc.jobs.offerred:13
From: RandD@qcc.sk.ca (Research and Development)
Newsgroups: can.jobs,misc.jobs.offerred
Subject: SENIOR SYSTEM DESIGNER/SOFTWARE ENGINEER (Sask.)
Summary: Job position in system/software design/implementation
Date: 9 Nov 92 22:01:35 GMT
Distribution: can
Organization: QCC Communications Corp, Saskatoon SK Canada

QCC Communications Corporation
No. 4 Airport Place, 2345 Ave. "C" North
Saskatoon, Saskatchewan
S7L 5Z5 Canada
Sask#Net/Internet: RandD@qcc.sk.ca
tel: (306) 665-6488   fax: (306) 665-9936

SENIOR SYSTEM DESIGNER /
SOFTWARE ENGINEER

QCC Communications Corporation, a Saskatoon technology company active in the
fields of telecommunications and computer networking, has a requirement for
an experienced Software Engineer/System Designer for its development team.

The successful candidate must be able to assume project design,
implementation, test and support  responsibilities within the company's
development program for advanced technology communications and networking
systems and services.

The ideal candidate will be a graduate engineer or computer scientist with
several years of proven product and system development experience in the
telecommunications and computing fields. Preferred candidates have
demonstratable skills in identifying, developing and delivering practical
technology solutions to real customer communication requirements.  Proven
competence and experience with 'C' and 'C++' programming languages, a Unix
development environment, PC platforms and with professional development
methodologies are minimal requirements. Experience with User Interface
design or with embedded database systems would be particularly useful.

This position offers an attractive hands-on opportunity for a motivated and
achievement-oriented individual within a flexible, small company
environment. QCC provides an attractive remuneration package, including a
comprehensive benefits program.

Please forward your resume in confidence to: 

EMAIL

Sask#Net/Internet: RandD@qcc.sk.ca

PAPER MAIL

QCC Communications Corporation
No. 4 Airport Place, 2345 Ave. "C" North
Saskatoon, Saskatchewan
S7L 5Z5 Canada

FAX

fax: (306) 665-9936
-- 
Research and Development                          QCC Communications Corporation
(306) 665-6488                                          #4 - 2345 Avenue C North
FAX: (306) 665-9936                                      Saskatoon, Saskatchewan
RandD@qcc.sk.ca                                                  CANADA  S7L 5Z5
Xref: sparky can.jobs:686 misc.jobs.offered:13278
Newsgroups: can.jobs,misc.jobs.offered
Subject: (Agency)Sr. Systems Analyst\Central B.C. Canada\HP\MPE\UNIX *Repost*
From: vincew@coast.almanac.bc.ca
Date: Thu, 05 Nov 92 14:56:04 PST
Distribution: ca
Organization: Coast Personnel Services Ltd., Nanaimo, B.C.

**Repost**

New graduates: Employers utilize the college placement offices to hire new
graduates. They do not employ recruiting firms for this purpose. We are
unable to assist recent graduates.

Reference #JO1103A

Functional Job Title: Systems Analyst - Senior
Education: Degree or Equivalent
Industry: Integrated Forest Company
Company Benefits: Comprehensive
Salary: $55,700 - mid point
Interview: Company Paid
Relocation: Company Paid

The candidate will provide leadership to team members in the development and
support of computerized systems, and should have the capability of management
succession.

Qualifications include:

- demonstrated ability conceptualizing and documenting business environment.
- expertise with structured design and development, preferably using CASE
  methodology.
- proven skills in the coaching and development of team members - a mentor.
- relational database experience.
- experience in pulp or forestry a plus, but not essential.
- environment is HP, running both MPE and UNIX.

Our client is a major employer with a good reputation in the industry.
Location is in the Interior of B.C. and offers a wide range of activities plus
low cost housing.

The company offers relocation, hotel until home purchase, legal fees on sale &
purchase, $2,000.00 mortgage penalty, merit and performance reviews annually,
share participation, relocation and a paid interview trip.

For consideration for this position, contact (see sig.)

Telephone or FAX, snail mail or email resumes (ASCII format only).
Please include reference #JO1103A in your posting.

vincew@coast.almanac.bc.ca   Vincent Willden
Coast Personnel Services Ltd., 103 - 65 Front Street, Nanaimo, B.C. V9R 5H9
Personnel Placement for Western Canada, From the Heart of Vancouver Island
1-604-753-4465 (Voice)                                 1-604-753-2278 (Fax)
Newsgroups: can.jobs,ab.jobs,misc.jobs.offered