From: schoinas@fox.cs.wisc.edu (Yannis Schoinas)
Subject: Re: Linovambakoi (Re: Turkish Cypriots reject ENOSIS)
Keywords: Ali Pasas, The King, Makarios, Chrysostomos, Vasiliu, Enosis, Palikaria, Akritas
Organization: U of Wisconsin Madison - Computer Sciences
Date: Tue, 26 Jan 1993 08:58:26 GMT

bse@sage.cc.purdue.edu (Besime Erin) writes:

>In article <C17tv0.HnG@news.cso.uiuc.edu> msg7038@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (Michalis  Syrimis) writes:
>>bse@sage.cc.purdue.edu (Besime Erin) writes:
>>
>>>In article <C12Kqz.4C9@news.cso.uiuc.edu> msg7038@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (Michalis  Syrimis) writes:
>>>>Regarding the thesis that some Turkish Cypriots are of Greek origin, 
>>>>linobambakoi, an undisputable fact supporting it is that many Tyrkish 
>>>>villages had names of Saints.  The one that comes to my mind now is
>>>>Ayios Nikolas (Saint Nicholas) in the Paphos District, close to Platres
>>>>and Arsos. 
>>>>
>>>>Anybody else knows any other ones? I can look in a map that I have
>>>>and give you some more.
>>>>
>>>>-- 
>>>>Michalis Syrimis
>>>>University of Illinois
>>>>Urbana-Champaign
>>>>
>>
>>>GET OFF of it Symiris !!!
>>Besime control yourself, you are becoming a public scene.
>>Watch your typing too.  

>I don't really care much as to how I am perceived on a simple computer
>network !

>>
>>>Turkish Cypriots ARE TURKISH Cypriots.
>>
>>Exactly.  In your previous article you presented your arguments, which
>>were perfectly logical, and with which I agree completely.  It's how one 
>>feels that determines his ethnicity / nationality and not his genetic code.
>>Read also the posting by Lambros Skartsis about the more general subject, his
>>views are not very different than ours.
>>
>>However, the fact remains that some of the Turkish Cypriots indeed were 

>Do you have factual information or documents proving your claim ?
>[By the way, you called it a thesis in the quoted part above, why and how
>did it suddenly turn into a fact ?] 

>>Greek Cypriots who converted to islam during the years of the Ottoman rule.  
>>Historical Truth is Historical Truth.

>Again, any documents, any facts ?

>and let's say some Greeks were in fact converted to Islam, why should they
>also start speaking Turkish ?????? or have traditions really similar to people 
>in certain parts of Anatolia ????? [which how most Turkish Cypriots are]
>Can you explain that ?

Childish argument. See below.

>[ so you might say they were forced to speak Turkish, then why are there plenty
>of Greeks in Cyprus right now who speak Greek and are Christians. Only a 
>privileged few were forced to change their religion and language ? ]

>>That's the whole point I was trying to make, but your went several steps 
>>ahead and saw different intentions and implications.

>I just didn't like the way you guys jumped on the idea or accepted right 
>away Theodore's claim that "some" Turkish Cypriots were/are in fact Greeks.
>You didn't even question it, because it sounded good, didn't it ? 
>Everyone in this world are decended from us, vow..... 

But you cannot that the basic stock of eastern Mediterranean has not changed
significantly with the arrival of the original Turks. And probably it didn't
change much with the hellenization of Asia Minor that was completed during
the first centuries of the roman empire. But what is more important is the 
culture, official and popular. The official culture of the Turks was the 
islamic one, with persian and arabian influences. But the popular culture,
as attested in the songs, myths, tools, foods, beliefs in saints, folk rituals,
is quite similar to the preturkic roman culture of Asia Minor. And from there, 
you can trace it as back as you like. Asia Minor was always a meeting place of 
all the peoples and races from Europe, Asia and Africa.

>>>>Regarding the thesis that some Turkish Cypriots are of Greek origin, 
>>>>linobambakoi, an undisputable fact supporting it is that many Tyrkish 
>>>>villages had names of Saints.  The one that comes to my mind now is
>>>>Ayios Nikolas (Saint Nicholas) in the Paphos District, close to Platres
>>>>and Arsos. 

>The fact that some majority Turkish vilages had Greek names is no fact 
>supporting that "some" Turkish Cypriots are actually Greek. 

Indeed not. But unless you can prove that you have an ancestor among the
nomads that inflitrated into Asia Minor after Matzikert this doesn't make
you a "proper" Turk.

						 Bye,
						Yannis.
Newsgroups: soc.culture.greek,alt.news.macedonia