From: alok@cbnewsi.cb.att.com (alok.vijayvargia)
Subject: Re: To be or not to be - ashamed
Organization: AT&T
Distribution: na
Date: Mon, 28 Dec 1992 20:18:12 GMT

In article <1992Dec21.142157.19637@cbfsb.cb.att.com>, rrp@cbnewsg.cb.att.com (rakesh.r.patel) writes:
> In article <1992Dec20.222823.22976@cbnewsi.cb.att.com> alok@cbnewsi.cb.att.com (alok.vijayvargia) writes:
> >In article <1992Dec17.195628.23998@cbfsb.cb.att.com>, rrp@cbnewsg.cb.att.com (rakesh.r.patel) writes:
> >
> Now I am really lost. Am I supposed to defend the Hindus, admonish the Hindus,
> or empathize with the Muslims and take up arms against Hindus? 

We are having this discussion to address this confusion in which you 
and many others are lost. Even I am lost to some extent.

> You forget, we are ~10,000 miles away for it all, bs-ing on a net in the 
> USA. What we say, hardly matters.

You are probably right about that. I am just taking a chance - may be, may be
it will help in some way ...

> > I don't know what your position has been on this as you rarely
> >speak your mind on serious issues. 
> 
> I think you give this net too much credit.
>  

Once again, you may be right. I perhaps give too much credit to this net.
I perhaps waste a lot of my time.

> >The issue I am concerned about is that Hindus seem to be disowning 
> >their co-faithfuls in hours of need.
> 
> If I don't agree with the actions of a few Hindus, how am I supposed to come
> to their defense? Why should I come to their defense? Wouldn't that make me 
> just as responsible. 

I don't think I asked you to support the kar-sevaks who destroyed the BM.
Sure, you should not come to the defense of those whose actions you
disagree with. However my appeal was to come to the defense of those 
innocent Hindus who are getting caught in this political mess.

> According to you not doing anything, is tantamount to 
> wholehearted support.  

Not really. However it indicates apathy, something which should not be part 
of a true Hindu's dictionary.

> >
> >What I said is that Hindus around the world
> >ought to take more responsibility for the protection of their Hindu kins 
> >around the world.
> 
> That like saying all Muslims should take responsiblity for the actions of 
> Iraq, Ayatollah, etc. 

No again. I am not asking you to take resonsibility of the actions of
the few kar-sevaks who destroyed the BM. I am asking you take more
responsibility and initiative in defending your co-faithfuls around the
globe. Actions of Iraq and Ayatollah were negative. I am asking you
to take and support positive action not the negative one.

> Come on! You are sounding like the guys raving about 
> Islamic brotherhood. Just as their is no Islamic brotherhood there is no
> Hindu brotherhood, or Christian brotherhood, etc.

Unfortunately there is Islamic as well as Christian brotherhoods,
even though you like to believe there is none.

Why do you think there were all these killings and destruction
of temples, properties etc of Hindu minorities in various Islamic 
countries in the aftermath of Ayodhya ? It is because of 
Islamic brotherhood. (Now don't get me wrong - Hindu brotherhood 
I am proposing is not meant for destructive activities but for 
constructive activities starting with protection of life of Hindu kins)
> 
> > What I said is that most Hindus on this net failed in this 
> >responsibility in their fervour to denounce the destruction of a mere
> >building and should be ashamed of themselves.
> 
> I take responsibility only for my actions or inactions. 

That is fine. Your inaction with regards to the protection of Hindu
minorities in states or countries with Islamic majority is what I refered to 
in the last mail. It is this inaction that I questioned for many other
netters, especially those who have been making hue and cry about the
destruction of BM. 

Now you take responsibility for your inactions as well, not just actions 
only, right ?

Listen, you just ended up walking into this thread,
perhaps driven by your consciousness and desire to do something, I hope :)

> I don't believe ( unlike most of the readership) that I can make a 
> difference rehashing stuff which has been said a countless number of times.
> 

Perhaps you can write a letter to NY Times or to Pakistani/Bangladeshi PM
asking for greater protection of Hindu minorities in their countries.

> >
> >You as a Hindu failed to take a stand on anything: whether it is
> >the destruction of BM or whether it is the burning innocent women and 
> >children while praying in temples in Pakistan.
> 
> This net is not a political forum for your fillibustering. This net
> is a stupid net. I don't think what a bunch of expatriate graduates (the
        ^^^^^
> majority on the net) rant and rave about matters too much in the
> scope of things. Besides, as soon as they find jobs with a company to
> sponsor them, say good bye to India and its problems. Which is fine
> by me.
> So, let us
> step back and view this clearly. I find it hard to believe that you 
> actually think what is said on the net somehow adds to a better 
> understanding. It's just a bunch of guys caught in an infinite loop
> of pretending they are Matthew Broderick in "War Games". You know, that
> hacker mentality, flexing their intellectual prowess and all that. 
> 
> Does anyone really read Kant?? 
> 

I am not filibustering. Sure this net is dominated by exptariate graduate
students from India and they often rant and rave about things which
you and I as American citizens are least concerned about.
However do not forget that Hindus live in Americas too. The actions
or inactions of these expatriate graduate students also affect us, not to
mention the actions and inactions of Hindus in India. I was stopped at a
gas station just the other day when a Pakistani gas attendent started 
blaming me for the destruction of the BM. This is the same guy who I gave
a ride a week back in bad wheather. I had even been opposed to BM destruction.
I had to put up with his rantings and ravings for several minutes.

There are a number of hate groups operating even within US. Many such groups
are involved in spreading propaganda against Hindus and Hinduism.

Even before Ayodhya, there have been attacks on and harassments of Hindus in 
this country too. Hinduism have been and and still is assailed on television 
programs, in many Churches, in many Mosques even within USA.

Do you think other Indian HIndus will come to your rescue or support,
should you become (I hope not) a target of such hatred one day ? 

Do you expect them to ? If yes, you should take some action in the support
of protection of Hindu minorities elsewhere too.

Alok
Newsgroups: soc.culture.indian