From: evc@ccwf.cc.utexas.edu (Edward Van Cura)
Newsgroups: alt.pagan
Subject: re: power
Date: 11 Sep 92 05:26:18 GMT

[If this is double-posted, it is not intentional. ---Thorfinn]

Greetings to Susan and to the Holy Wights!

I appreciate your input. It appears that there exists a fundamental
difference between NewAge StarHawkian philosophy and ancient Germanic
heathen tradition concerning the concept and use of power. The
following is from a Hilda R. Ellis Davidson contribution (chapter 2) 
entitled "Hostile Magic in the Icelandic Sagas" contained in the book,
*The Witch Figure* edited by Venetia Newall (pp. 36-37):

   "Obviously many of the types of magic instanced could be used
   for good as well as evil, and the accounts of the divination 
   ceremony by means of "seidhr" may be classed as benevolent
   witchcraft, as may also the work of a seeress from northern Norway
   mentioned in *Landnamabok* who could attract fish into the sound.
   There are a few references to healing, although this, so important
   in shamanistic practice, plays little part in the witchcraft
   stories. The general assumption in the sagas, partly based on the
   demands of the plot and partly based on observation of human
   nature, is that the powers of witches were in general put to
   hostile use. However, there is no condemnation of magic as such,
   and many using it were highly esteemed in the community; it was 
   only condemned and punished when used to injure or to protect those
   doing harm."

Another example is from *Grettir's saga* where the old sorceress curses
Grettir and later carves runes into a log, colors them with her blood,
chants the appropriate galdor, and finally sends the log out to work
her will (chapters 78-79, see the saga for proper context). 
In the vol.2/nr.1 issue of *Idunna*, Dianne Luark Ross wrote 
an article entitled "Women and the Runes", in which on page 13:

   "This treasured scene in the *Grettis Saga* is important for 
   three reasons. It provides us with additional clues regarding 
   effective rune magic. Also, it is one of the few instances 
   wherein we are provided with evidence of a woman rune-master
   powerfully and elaborately working her magic. Also, it is
   illustrative of the amorality which exists within the lore
   of the people of Northern Europe. Thuridh [the rune-master]
   does not question whether her acts are right or wrong. Though
   Thuridh cursed Grettir for the evil act of breaking her
   thigh-bone, she also cursed him before he threw the giant 
   stone, wishing him abject misery for the rest of his days
   ---out of love and loyalty to Thorbjorn, her foster son.
   The workings of her curse for her own "good" and the "good" of
   Thorbjorn are not fixed on any absolute laws of right or wrong."

The Ring of Troth has neither sacred scriptures, dogmas, nor heresies,
although we heavily rely on internal contemporary source texts such 
as the Eddas and the sagas of the Middle Ages, external contemporary 
source texts such as Greek or Roman writings about Germanic heathens, 
archaeological evidence, folklore, and sound scholarly research.
The Ring takes no position on the use of magic, and we have no
ethics committees. The individual creates hir own wyrd through personal
choice, or as it says in the "Sayings of the High One" stanza 95:

                "Only your own mind knows
              what is dearest to your heart.
                  Each counsels himself.
           There is no worse illness for a sage
                than losing love for himself."

Concerning "power-over" and "power-from-within", both you and I seem 
to be seeing a similar concept of power except that mine is bare, raw,
naked to the world, while yours is fashionably clothed.  :)  If you
perceive a threat to that which you value, you will use "power-over",
will you not (?). The ancient Celts and Germanic peoples had a place
in their society for the warrior (as defender of the tribe). As I
recall from the Persian Gulf War, both you and I rallied against it
while we thought we could make a difference. That evening as the Air War 
began, after we had stormed the capitol building, you made a speech 
saying that there was a time for war and a time for peace, and that
this was not a time for war. We were of similar mind on that issue.

The Ring of Troth is ever growing. Will the Germanic heathen always 
have to fight for a place in the sun? Against the Christians I can 
understand, but why against other pagans? Hofs (temples) will be erected
in or near major cities within 9 years. There is Hof land north of 
Houston already. Although the Hofs will be Germanic in nature, space 
will be rented out to other pagan groups for activities. Within 3
years various fundy X-ian groups will realize that a new group of
pagans has arrived, heathens who actively seek to compete with them,
to build temples next to their sacred churches. Guess who will start
taking the heat. Eventually, all pagans will benefit, though. 

The Pagan Alliance of Central Texas (PACT) claims to serve the wiccan
and pagan community. Will PACT serve pagans who do not subscribe to
StarHawkian philosophy? To followers of certain Caribbean folk
religions who perform animal sacrifice as part of their ways?
               To Germanic pagans (heathens)?

                "Often those who sit inside
        do not know the kin of those who have arrived.
           No man is so good that he has no faults,         ,   ,
        none so evil that he is not worthy in some way." --Havamal 133 

Susan, when you have time, could you post information about 
the Celtic Fairie (sp?) Faith? I would like to read more about it.

=-=-=- Wassail -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
 Thorfinn Einarsson    *    ALU ALU ALU    *   Odhinn er Alfadhir!
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=

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