From: eliot@lanmola.engr.washington.edu (eliot)
Subject: Re: G20 vs. Altima, Fast vs. Slow
Organization: clearer than blir
Date: Tue, 17 Nov 1992 10:05:36 GMT

In article <1992Nov17.082314.29660@leland.Stanford.EDU> tedebear@leland.Stanford.EDU (Theodore Chen) writes:
>i think the question was why buy the infiniti G20 when you can get
>a sentra SE-R with the same engine for 6 grand less.  a pretty fair
>question, i think.

sure.  i hope you did not misinterpret my response as a flame.  it
wasn't intended to be one.

>i think the G20 would be terrific if it cost $15k.
>it is very smooth and has excellent handling.  but... it still feels
>like a small car, and i think $19k is a bit much for that.
>when the sentra SE-R (admittedly noisier and less refined) can
>be had for considerably less, the G20 starts looking worse.  if i 
>had the cash for a G20, i'd probably be looking at a taurus SHO or 
>maxima SE instead.

let me put it another way: the g20 is not for the person who compares
all the numbers and let the numbers decide.  it is for the person who
goes for the finer subtleties of engineering, which may not
necessarily be expressible in a number or formula.  if you are not
into this stuff, then the g20 is not for you.  

for me, it is so refreshing to find a japanese car built to priorities
other than mere numerical superiority.  the g20 was designed to go
head-on in europe with all the major european brands based on sheer
engineering finesse rather than hide behind consumer reports or JD
Power endorsements.  consider it a privilege that nissan is selling
the car here, out of place as it is in this market.  the masses will
logically buy the se-r or the maxima; they will never really know what
they are missing.  so be it.  it makes appreciating the car all the
more sweeter.

>i've said this before, but i don't think the integra's handling is
>as absymal as you say it is.

i personally can't remember having driven anything worse. even some
el-cheapo econoboxes can serve up better damping than the integra.
the term "bad handling" is relative of course, which is why i
contrasted the integra's handling with the g20's.  night and day.
even a sentra se-r will put the integra to shame with its long travel
and firmly damped suspension.  i am outspoken about the integra
because:

1) the way it is marketed as if it had a lot of McLaren Honda blood in
it.  it doesn't.

2) the way it understeers given such generous rubber.  the subaru
legacy with skinny 175/70 tires will outcorner it handily.  so will
any vw; fox, golf, jetta.. you name it.

3) the way it was praised to the skies when it first appeared.  i was
never impressed from the first time that i tried one despite all the
positive press.

4) the unfulfilled hype about "double-wishbone" suspension.  by right
you should be getting pretty good grip, given the above and 195
section tires.  the truth is, most humdrum cars with humble struts and
175 tires will easily beat it, not to mention a g20 or anything more
special.

> i've been playing around with tire
>pressures lately and increasing the pressure helps considerably in
>reducing understeer.  right now i'm running 34 psi front and 32 psi rear.
>understeer is drastically reduced but i think the ultimate grip has suffered
>so i'm going to reduce the pressures a little.  

well, if what you say is true, then honda still deserves to be bashed for
building a chassis that is so sensitive to tire pressures and recommending
pressures that are way off optimal.


eliot