HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: bagiffel@mosaic.uncc.edu (Barry Andrew Giffel)
Subject: Graphical E-Mail Chess Interface
Organization: Chessnews list (chessnews-request@tssi.com)
Date: Sun, 16 Aug 1992 21:09:20 GMT


Please accept our apologies if you have seen this message previously.
We have had some problems with our news distribution.

---
                       !!E-MAIL CHESS PLAYERS!!

        We have recently written programs which provide graphical user
interfaces to chess played by E-mail.  These programs run under both
X(Xview) and GL, and should be portable to a variety of
workstations, though we have tested them only on Suns(OW2+3) and SGIs. 
We are doing a general interest survey to determine whether distributing
these programs would be worth the time and trouble.  If you often play
chess by e-mail, or would with a good graphical interface, please let
us know.
        The interface itself consists of a resizable playing board and
a control panel.  It will automatically and invisibly read, process,
and write mail messages to the player.  It keeps a complete history of
the game(s).  The maximum number of concurrent games is completely
user-definable.  
        We have played several small tournaments using the programs
and they are quite effective!  If you are interested in possibly
helping test these programs please tell us what machine you are using
and whether you have X(Xview) and/or GL support.

                    Please E-mail all responses to:
                     bagiffel@uncc.edu or
                          hcj@gull.uncc.edu




Newsgroups: rec.games.chess,rec.games.go,rec.games.board,rec.games.programmer
From: karttu@mits.mdata.fi (Antti Karttunen)
Subject: Strategic games, computational cost & implications (was Re: rec.games.strategic)
Keywords: checkers, shogi, othello, hex, alquerque, ashtapada, hnefatafl, etc.
Organization: MITS, Helsinki, Finland
Date: Sun, 23 Aug 1992 02:25:21 GMT

In article <darse.714354066@silver-vly> darse@cs.UAlberta.CA (Darse Billings) writes:
>
>Here is a starting list of the games which might be discussed:
>
>Awari, Chase, 8x8 Checkers, 10x10 Draughts, Chinese Chess, Connect
>Four, Dominoes, Hex, Go-Moku, Renju, Reversi (Othello), Nine Men's
>Morris, Nim, Qubic (4x4x4 Tic-Tac-Toe), Scrabble, Shogi

What about Alquerque, Ashtapada, Halatafl, Freystafl, Hnefatafl,
Tablut, Seega, Ludus Latrunculorum, Tablan, Hasami Shogi, Pallanguli,
Chisolo?
(Sorry, couldn't resist. These are from "Board and table games from
many civilizations", by R.C. Bell, M.B., F.R.C.S, published by
Oxford University Press, 1960).

Now that I have found this thread I can continue to crosspost my drivel to
these various newsgroups...
Questions I have wondered:

1) What is the most complex (human invented) game 'computationally'?
Go???

2) What will happen when computers finally beat all human beings in
Chess? Will there be less interest in Chess after that, or more?
Or will there be a migration to Shogi or Go?


>
> - Darse Billings, 2100 CM, 7 kyu.
>
>Go is better than Chess.  Poker is more lucrative.  Sex is more fun.

Not kyuu, dan nor grandmaster, just an eternal beginner inherently interested
about all kind of strategic games...

-- 
Antti Karttunen       --  $B%"%s%C%F%#!!%+%k%C%H%%%M%s(J  (et{ty|t|n)
karttu@mits.mdata.fi  --  Apatheist, although not particularly proud of it.
Newsgroups: rec.games.chess
From: jhc@m2lll.uucp (James H. Coombs)
Subject: Re: Mandatory human-computer tournament play (was Re: US Open)
Keywords: computers, pairings
Reply-To: jhc@iris.brown.edu.UUCP (James H. Coombs)
Organization: IRIS - Brown University
Distribution: usa
Date: Wed, 19 Aug 1992 19:36:22 GMT

In article <1992Aug19.151458.2688@cis.uab.edu> hyatt@cis.uab.edu (Robert Hyatt) writes:
>In article <1992Aug19.022125.17183@afit.af.mil> wbralick@afit.af.mil (Will Bralick) writes:
>>
>>In article <1992Aug18.022521.2346@cis.uab.edu> hyatt@cis.uab.edu (Robert Hyatt) writes:

>if the majority agree that having computers in tournaments is a good thing,
>then the minority is either going to have to go along or play elsewhere.

Big word there, IF.  I did not know the that the majority had been
polled.  I was not given a chance to vote.  Or do you mean the majority
of the minority, that is, the members of a committee, which members
were chosen by, well, by what process?  I was not given a chance to
vote for members of the committee (or was the vote just before my
time)?  Well, if the committee consists of something other than elected
representatives, then we seem to be getting more of an oligarchy than a
democracy.

You did say IF, but you did not say what majority and what minority.
Seems to me that perhaps the majority of committee members will be
deciding, but the "minority" that will have to go along consists of
thousands, not a few dissenting members of the committee.  In other
words, your minority is thousands greater than your deciding majority.

>Granted, some like to intimidate their opponent, and it's "hard" to
>intimidate a computer, but that IS NOT part of the game.  You aren't
>supposed to slam pieces down, slam the clock, lean over the board and
>scowl, or do anything else that disturbs your opponent.  If you play
>like this, the computer simply makes you follow the rules, since it
>ignores all of the "action" you present.

You have been unfairly selective in your representation of the
psychology of chess.  Psychology is part of chess.  You are supposed to
do things that disturb your opponent.  Lasker knew this, and so have
most of the top players since then.  Instead of elaborating, I will
simply refer readers to Benko's *Winning with Chess Psychology*, an
important book and an interesting read.

--Jim
From: Bruce_Leverett@TRANSARC.COM
Newsgroups: rec.games.chess
Subject: Re: Man vs Computer Checkers Championship
Date: 21 Aug 92 14:15:43 GMT

How can they play up to 4 games a day if the games are on the order of 5 hours?

It's incredible to me that Tinsley could maintain a pace of 12 games in 4 days.
Weekend chess tournaments used to be like this (3 games Saturday, 2 games
Sunday, at time controls which led to 5-hour games), but that format has been
almost universally abandoned because it was too strenuous.  International
chess tournaments are held at 1 game a day, and even this is too strenuous
for many players.


Newsgroups: rec.games.chess
From: jhc@iris.uucp (James H. Coombs)
Subject: Re: Suggestions for chess program?
Reply-To: jhc@iris.UUCP (James H. Coombs)
Organization: IRIS - Brown University
Date: Mon, 17 Aug 1992 17:36:34 GMT

In article <1992Aug17.170359.15566@colorado.edu> perlman@qso.Colorado.EDU (Eric S. Perlman) writes:
>In article <1992Aug17.164657.27653@cs.brown.edu> jhc@iris.UUCP (James H. Coombs) writes:
>>In article <2a8d4bfdwnr070@ark.abg.sub.org> ralf@ark.abg.sub.org (Ralf Stephan) writes:

>>>But if he later buys a faster PC, he won't have a stronger program.
>>>I recommend M-Chess (about U$100-150) that plays at Mach III level
>>>even with a 286 with 12 MHz.

>>More precisely, CCR adds 60 points to 386/33 results to get an
>>estimated result for 486/33.  I don't know what adjustment to make for
>>a 286/12.  In any case, the speed of the machine does affect the

>From memory, the increase in processing speed from a 9 MHz AT to a 25
>MHz 80486SX is roughly a factor of 12 (but you can check me on this).

CCR gives MChess on a 486/25 a speed index of 29.43 vs. a Fidelity
2000.  For a 286/12, divide by 5, giving MChess a speed index of about
5.9.  The only guideilne that CCR gives for interpretation is that
MChess would then play at about 2000 with only 30 seconds per move.  I
can only guess then, that MChess would be about 2250 at 40/2.  CCR
gives about 2400 for MChess on a 486/33.

--Jim
From: nash@visus.com (Richard V. Nash)
Newsgroups: rec.games.chess
Subject: Re: Checkers match
Date: 20 Aug 92 21:01:55 GMT
Reply-To: nash@visus.com
Organization: Visual Understanding Systems, Pgh PA

In article <1992Aug20.172712.24197@watson.ibm.com> msc@watson.ibm.com (Murray  
Campbell) writes:
> There is currently a match going on between Marion Tinsley (sp?),
> who has been world checkers champion for many years, and
> "Chinook", a checkers program out of the University of Alberta written
> by a group headed by Jonathan Schaeffer.  The match is taking
> place in London, England.  I heard that on Wednesday August 19,
> Chinook managed to beat Tinsley to level the match at one win each
> with 6 draws.  This is notable because Tinsley has lost only a
> handful of games in his 40 year career, and has had no losses
> in the past ten years.  The match is supposed to continue
> until August 29, with a total of 40 games to be played.

I thought checkers was solved. Is it not?

--
+---------------------------------------------------------------+
| Richard V. Nash  | Visual Understanding Systems, Inc.         |
| nash@visus.com   | Tel. (412)-488-3600   Fax. (412)-488-3611  |
+---------------------------------------------------------------+
Organization: University of Illinois at Chicago
Date: Monday, 17 Aug 1992 16:58:32 CDT
From: <U55342@uicvm.uic.edu>
Newsgroups: rec.games.chess
Subject: Fischer-Spassky and rating points

... uh, .... er, .... do you all think that Fiscer will lose rating points
in Fischer - Spassky II like he did when they played in 1972 ?! If Fischer
wants to avoid this, he's gonna have to make fewer draws!

                                                          See Ya!
                                                           Bert

P.S. I don't appreciate all the Gligoric - bashing that has been going on;
     Gligoric's game collection that was published by RHM was the first
     game collection I ever read (I was about 12 yrs old), and furthermore,
     if any of you bashers are King's Indian players then Shame On You -
     Gligoric was (and perhaps still is!) The Dude, The "King" in the name
     "King's Indian Defense!" You know the Classical main line of KID, the one
     that goes 1.d4 Nf6 2.c4 g6 3.Nc3 Bg7 4.e4 d6 5.Nf3 00 6.Be2 e5 7.00 Nc6
     8.e5 Ne7-this should have been named after Gligoric and not Mar del Plata!

     And hey, I will post something similar if anybody slams Batman or
     the Green Lantern!
                                               :-)


........................................................................
: Bertrand L. Wilson                :"My personality has been sanitized:
: Department of Linguistics         :   for your protection."          :
: University of Illinois at Chicago :                     Bert Wilson  :
:                                   :                                  :
: U55342@UICVM.UIC.EDU              : "The only problem with resisting :
:                                   :   temptation is that it may never:
:                                   :   come your way again."          :
:                                   :                     Anonymous    :
:...................................:..................................:
From: loon@underdog.ee.wits.ac.za (LOON M J)
Newsgroups: rec.games.chess
Subject: Re: chess psion versions
Keywords: psion, versions
Date: 19 Aug 92 11:05:57 GMT
Article-I.D.: underdog.loon.29
Organization: Wits Electrical Engineering (Undergrads).

In article <u251014.11@hnykun11.urc.kun.nl> u251014@hnykun11.urc.kun.nl (Hans Schilderman) writes:

>Could anyone inform me about recent versions of the chess game 'chess' form 
>psion lim.?
>I am using the version of 1985 (version 1.01) and am curious to know whether 
>more recent versions are available

>best wishes Hans Schilderman

I would like to know the same. Please mail me.
--
Marc Loon <loon@underdog.ee.wits.ac.za>
Student No: 8807871/X (just thought you'd want to know)
University of the Witwatersrand
Johannesburg

Conversation: a voice competition between two people
in which the one taking a breath is called the listener.
Newsgroups: rec.games.chess
From: hyatt@cis.uab.edu (Robert Hyatt)
Subject: Re: Man vs Computer Checkers Championship
Organization: University of Alabama at Birmingham
Date: Fri, 21 Aug 1992 03:09:28 GMT

In article <BtAoJ0.5zD@math.uwaterloo.ca> alopez-o@neumann.uwaterloo.ca (Alex Lopez-Ortiz) writes:
>
>
>Today's newspaper has a picture of Marion Tinsley palying a computer with 
>the caption [my comments are in brackets].
>
>   World checkers champ Marion Tinsley ponders his next move against
>   the Chinook Supercomputer in London, England, yesterday during the 
>   World Draughts [checkers] Championship. The computer is ranked 
>   second in the world [the checkers program was written by J. 
>   Schaeffer of the Univiersity of Alberta]. Tinsbury, of Tallahasee,
>   Florida, as of yesterday had won one game and drawn five in a 40-game
>   series against the computer.
>
>
>Does anybody has more information on the match?
>
yes.  the current score is one win, one loss and 6 draws for an even
match.  Tinsley has only lost 6 games total (including the one game
to Chinook) in the past 35 years or so.

Bob

-- 
!Robert Hyatt                    Computer and Information Sciences   !
!hyatt@cis.uab.edu               University of Alabama at Birmingham !
Newsgroups: rec.games.chess
From: bruno@hpldsla.sid.hp.com (Bruno Bienenfeild)
Newsgroups: rec.games.chess
Subject: Re: Rating Chess Players - Literature and Software...
Date: 19 Aug 92 19:45:29 GMT
Organization: HP Scientific Instruments Division - Palo Alto, CA

You will find 26 pages on ratings in " The chess competitor's handbook "
by Bozidar M.Kazic with co-authors A.Elo et.al - Arco Publ.Inc. N.Y.

from the log of AA6AD
From: schwamb@Aero.org (Karl Schwamb)
Newsgroups: rec.games.chess
Subject: Re:
Date: 19 Aug 92 16:33:23 GMT
Organization: The Aerospace Corporation

In article <9208181803.aa12067@Bonnie.ics.uci.edu>, jriechel@Bonnie.ICS.UCI.EDU writes:

|>   -----------------------------------------
|> 8 | *R |    | *B | *Q | *K | *B |    | *R |
|>   -----------------------------------------
|> 7 | *P | *P | *P | *N |    | *P | *P | *P |   P = Pawn
|>   -----------------------------------------   N = Knight
|> 6 |    |    |    |    |    |    |    |    |   B = Bishop
|>   -----------------------------------------   R = Rook (aka Castle)
|> 5 |    |    |    | *P |  N |    |    |    |   Q = Queen
|>   -----------------------------------------   K = King
|> 4 |    |    |    |  P | *N |    |    |    |
|>   -----------------------------------------
|> 3 |    |    |    |  B |    |    |    |    |   *'s precede Black pieces
|>   -----------------------------------------
|> 2 |  P |  P |  P |    |    |  P |  P |  P |
|>   -----------------------------------------
|> 1 |  R |  N |  B |  Q |  K |    |    |  R |
|>   -----------------------------------------
|>     a    b    c    d    e    f    g    h
|> 
|> Problem #1:  White to play and draw (by repetition).

This is a well-known position in the Petroff.  An earlier post claimed
a draw by 6. Nf7 Kf7 7. Qh5+ etc.  However, black has the more interesting
choice 6. ... Qe7 with the threat of Nc3+.  This line is given in
Petroff books as drawish but there's plenty more play in that line than
the dull 6. ... Kf7.  Sidenote: The Qe7 line has been played by Karpov.
At any rate, there's no forced draw from this position.

-Karl
Newsgroups: rec.games.chess
From: jhc@iris.uucp (James H. Coombs)
Subject: Re: US Open
Reply-To: jhc@iris.brown.edu.UUCP (James H. Coombs)
Organization: IRIS - Brown University
Date: Thu, 13 Aug 1992 17:04:55 GMT

In article <1992Aug11.163422.26408@sco.com> richardr@sco.COM (Richard Robinson) writes:

>Lastly, those who felt that there were not enough tournaments of their
>kind are always welcome to put their own mental health on the line and
>organize and direct their own tournaments!

Yes, and those who don't think there are enough good restaurants in
town can just go ahead and start their own!  --Jim
Newsgroups: rec.games.chess
From: jhc@iris.uucp (James H. Coombs)
Subject: Re: US Open
Reply-To: jhc@iris.brown.edu.UUCP (James H. Coombs)
Organization: IRIS - Brown University
Date: Wed, 12 Aug 1992 19:46:09 GMT

In article <1992Aug12.143506.44514@uvmark.uucp> jim@uvmark.uucp (Jim Todhunter) writes:
>In article <SCHILLER.92Aug11212347@tira.uchicago.edu> schiller@tira.uchicago.edu (Eric Schiller) writes:

>>Banning machines hardly seems like a democratic idea.
>>I don't think machines should play for National titles,
>>and so voted in the committee.

>The notion that a decision to exclude computers is not democratic
>is a ruse.  The membership of our Chess Federation is dominated by
>humans, not machines.  The decision to provide a more favorable
>environment for computer participation forwards the financial
>interests of a few, at the expense of many.

Good point, and freedom of choice would be putting the issue to a vote
by the members of the organization.  THAT is democracy in action.

Oh, yes, and on freedom of choice.  Before, TDs could choose whether or
not to include computers, and players could choose whether or not to
play against them.  Now TDs will retain their freedom of choice, but
players will lose theirs.  So, clearly a reduction in freedom of choice.

--Jim
Newsgroups: rec.games.chess
From: direwolf@seismo.gps.caltech.edu (Kathy Watts)
Subject: Re: Re : Lasker at odds
Organization: California Institute of Technology, Pasadena
Date: Sat, 22 Aug 1992 16:53:20 GMT

Perhaps I heard a more endearing version of this apocryphal story:

Lasker is watching someone play chess on the ship, who notices him, and invites
him to play.  He says he doesn't know how, but is roped into "learning."

The teacher even spots Lasker a queen in the first game or two, and Lasker lets
him win.  Then Lasker insists on trying to give the teacher queen odds, and
wins.

Lasker then declares that obviously playing without the queen constitutes some
major kind of advantage.

(Warning - I'm a lousy story teller - if someone's got a better version, please
post it!)

-Hal Bogner

Newsgroups: rec.games.chess,comp.ai,rec.games.programmer,rec.games.go
From: os9ug@gkcl.ists.ca (OS-9 User Group)
Subject: Re: comp.games.research
Reply-To: sizone!justin@ee.ryerson.ca (justin)
Organization: y
Date: Tue, 18 Aug 92 09:12:47 GMT

In article <AeY6O9a00VpNA7hml5@andrew.cmu.edu> "Jonathan R. Ferro" <jf41+@andrew.cmu.edu> writes:
>os9ug@gkcl.ists.ca (OS-9 User Group) writes:
>> How about a more general newsgroup devoted to computing research in
>> any and all tactical/strategic games?
>
>This is what rec.games.programmer is supposed to be for, but it gets
>difficult to define when a topic has crossed the line from "programming
>games" to "programming this specific game effect on a PC/Amiga/whatever

Hmm.  Reading through the articles here, I got the impression that
rec.games.programmer was a much more general conference, and was 
concerned with any and all types of games.  The focus of the 
discussion in the last 100 messages I scanned through seemed to be
primarily video games, text adventure games, etc..  I
imagined that lost in the midst of all this, the occasional thread
concerning chess or go might occur -- so I cross posted the 
suggestion to rec.games.programmer as well.

What I was thinking of, re: comp.games.research, was a conference
specifically devoted to the analysis of tactical/strategic board
games like chess, go, othello, etc. -- and the more general domain
of rec.games.programmer, which seems to be all games of any sort.
From: rcs@CS.ARIZONA.EDU ("Richard Schroeppel")
Newsgroups: rec.games.chess
Subject: comp.chess.research
Date: 18 Aug 92 21:28:16 GMT

How about a mailing list instead?
It requires much less organizing effort, and can reach people who
don't get news, or don't want to read news.
It can also be moderated if necessary, and it's trivial to archive.

Rich Schroeppel  rcs@cs.arizona.edu
Newsgroups: rec.games.chess
From: pmbarlow@miavx1.acs.muohio.edu (Dan Fielding)
Newsgroups: rec.games.chess
Subject: Re: 1. A4   WARE OPENING
Date: 14 Aug 92 16:43:33 GMT
Organization: Miami University Academic Computer Service"

In article <13AUG199215390887@lims01.lerc.nasa.gov>,
scridd@lims01.lerc.nasa.gov (JEFFREY RIDDLEBAUGH) writes:
> It's named for a 19th century player named Preston Ware, who played
> 1. a4 or 1... a4 quite a lot.  1. a4 is also called the Meadow Hay Opening.
           ^^^^^^^

You realise, don't you, that this is impossible in almost every type of
annotation...


Finding new and exciting ways to lose...

Dan Fielding.
Newsgroups: rec.games.chess
From: tim@maths.tcd.ie (Timothy Murphy)
Subject: Handicap story
Summary: Is this a well-known chestnut?
Keywords: Lasker chess story
Organization: Dept. of Maths, Trinity College, Dublin, Ireland.
Date: Sat, 22 Aug 1992 13:48:36 GMT

Mention of handicapping reminds me of the following story
I heard from a friend years ago.
Is it well-known? It is too much to hope it is true!

Lasker was crossing the Atlantic in a liner.
An obnoxious bighead was offering all-comers a rook handicap.
Lasker took the offer, and duly lost.

"There must be some advantage in only having 1 rook," said Lasker.
"Maybe I'd do better if I gave you the rook."
At which he gave the big-head a rook, and duly won.

-- 
Timothy Murphy  
e-mail: tim@maths.tcd.ie
tel: +353-1-2842366
s-mail: School of Mathematics, Trinity College, Dublin 2, Ireland
From: malingka@cps.msu.edu (Richard Malingkas)
Newsgroups: rec.games.chess
Subject: US Open (standings)
Date: 13 Aug 92 06:35:03 GMT
Followup-To: rec.games.chess
Distribution: usa
Organization: Dept. of Computer Science, Michigan State University
Originator: malingka@atlantic.cps.msu.edu

Leaders after round 9 (including USCF rating):

8 :   	Kaidanov, Gregory (2694)
	Tsemekhman, Vadim (2435)
7.5 : 	Ivanov, Igor (2621)
	Finegold, Ben (2543)
	Strauss, David (2482)
	Basin, Leonid (2472)
	Stone, Ray (2423)
	Johnstone, Glenn (2391)

Round 9 was played on Tuesday Aug. 11.

Results of top 5 boards on round 10 (Played on Wed. Aug 12) :
G. Kaidanov - V. Tsemekhman	: 1-0
L. Basin - I. Ivanov		: 0.5
B. Finegold - R. Stone		: still playing when I left the tournament
G. Johnstone - D. Strauss	: 0.5
S. Kudrin - D. Thompson		: 1-0


Richard Malingkas
-- 
*----------------------*
  _Richard Malingkas__                      
  malingka@cps.msu.edu                 
*----------------------*
From: elkies@ramanujan.harvard.edu (Noam Elkies)
Newsgroups: rec.games.chess
Subject: Re: Correction! (Bishops and Queens)
Date: 22 Aug 92 15:39:20 GMT
Organization: Harvard Math Department

In article <14495@mindlink.bc.ca> Bruce_Harper@mindlink.bc.ca
(Bruce Harper) writes:
>My mistake - the position I was thinking of was a position where if a Bishop
>were on a certain square, that side would win, while if a Queen were there,
>that side would lose.  Promotion was part of the puzzle, but it wasn't exactly
>an example of e8 = B wins and e8 = Q loses.

I still don't believe it.  The only situations where you'd want to have a
Bishop rather than a Queen on the board, i.e. when the extra power of the
Queen would only hurt you, involve stalemate --- either the Queen would get
your opponenet stalemated, or the Bishop gets *you* stalemated.  Both
situations can arise(*), though to my knowledge the latter has never come
up in over-the-board play, and even the former is extremely rare, with only
a handful of examples known from master practice.  But in neither case can
having the Queen turn a win into a loss.  (A Knight, yes, because it has
powers that the Queen doesn't; a Rook also, but only in cases involving
castling(**), so in particular not a promoted Rook --- excluding the joke
about castling with a Rook promoted on K8.)  I suppose one can barely
conceive of a position where with a Bishop you can prove by retrograde
analysis that it's your move, and with a Queen that it's your opponent's
move, and the extra tempo makes the difference between win and loss even
with the extra material; but that's cheating even if it's possible.

(*) White Kd3, Nc1, c7; Black Ka1, Rb8.  White to move wins only with cxb8=B!
 White Kh8, Nf8, g7; Black Ka2, Rb8, Qf4.  White to move draws only with g8=B!
 [Both examples from the Lommer and Sutherland _1234_.]
(**) White Ke1, Ra1, b2, e2;  Black Kb8, h2, e3.  White wins with 0-0-0.
 Replace Re1 with a White Queen, and White loses after ...h1=Q.

--Noam D. Elkies (elkies@zariski.harvard.edu)
  Dept. of Mathematics, Harvard University
Newsgroups: rec.games.chess