HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: rlopez@loanstar.tamu.edu (Robert Lopez)
Subject: Rangers and Clemens (was Re: Boston's outfield)
Keywords: eat more moose
Organization: The Hosequarium South
Date: Wed, 14 Oct 1992 21:36:58 GMT

In article <1992Oct14.172715.1661@news.columbia.edu>, rl24@cunixa.cc.columbia.edu (Robert Lamoureux) writes:
|> 
|> Well, a while back, I suggested that I would deal Clemens for
|> Gonzalez and Ivan Rodriguez, and was also laughed at (or at least
|> told that the deal should include a couple of Rangers' prospects
|> as well).  My question, though, is would the Rangers really be up
|> for parting with two all-star everyday players, *plus* prospects,
|> in exchange for a man who can only help them win every fifth day?
|> My best guess is no; and yet, that's what it would take to pry
|> Clemens loose, as far as I'm concerned.
|> 
|> Rob L.
|> 

I have resisted putting in my two cents because this is all 
way too "what if"ish, but anyway...

With Canseco in the lineup, I think the Rangers *MIGHT* part
with Gonzalez and someone else for Clemens, but I would seriously
doubt it'll be Ivan.  There isn't much left in the organization
catcher-wise who has as much promise as Ivan.  Stanley is a Yankee,
Kreuter a Tiger, Russell is a coach (I think), and Geno, is, well,
Geno.  

I'd go for Gonzalez+Palmiero+ptbnl*{1 or 2} (Fajardo, Champ, etc)
Let Rob Maurer try first.

I am pissed at the poor attitudes of Gonzalez and Ivan under 
Harrah.  I kinda hope they find someone else to manage.  And, dammit,
can Ton House!

-- 
----------------------------------------------------------
Robert E. L\'{o}pez       |       Internet:
Texas LoanSTAR Program    |       rlopez@loanstar.tamu.edu
The Hosequarium South     |       rlopez@cs.tamu.edu
----------------------------------------------------------
                 Texas A&M University 
                   boohoo.onyou.edu
----------------------------------------------------------
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
From: kettler@carlo.mit.edu (KETTLER, THOMAS R.)
Subject: Rijo-lowest era in 1991-NOT! Was: Re: Morris: more fuel for this debate
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.4-b1  
Organization: MIT Lab for Nuclear Science
Distribution: na
Date: Thu, 8 Oct 1992 20:58:00 GMT

In article <1992Oct7.155250.2575@island.COM>, fester@island.COM (Mike Fester)            writes...
> 
>Someone should have told that to Stewart last year: he had great run support.
>Also, Jose Rijo had outstanding run support, the league's best ERA and still
>managed to win precisely half his starts. (ERA 2.51, RS/9 5.1)
> 
>Mike
>-- 
>Disclaimer - I'm only doing what the little voices tell me to do. 

Close but no cigar. As an Expos fanatic, I know that Dennis won the ERA crown 
last year with a 2.39 ERA and a perfect game to boot.

Of course, I'm still waiting to catch for the anti-statheads in the big 
r.sp.baseball softball game since I go by the moto "Have glove, will travel."

					Sincerely yours,

					Thomas R. Kettler "Expos Fantatic"
Organization: Penn State University
Date: Thu, 15 Oct 1992 15:17:01 EDT
From: <RAP115@psuvm.psu.edu>
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
Subject: Re: Was Bream Out?

It was just you.  Bream, though close, was safe.  This from a disappointed
Pirates fan.  Of course people who say home field advantage means nothing?
That ball died in the outfield grass.  On Pittsburgh's turf, Bream is out
by a mile the way he runs, and we're headed for inning No. 10.  home field
advantage was definitely a factore this year!
-Rob
------------------------------------------------------------------------
  "Get Me Past Atlanta, and I'll Win The World Series For You."-(Former?)
Pirate Barry Bonds.  No joy in Pittsburgh now - Go Pens!!!! (2-0-2)
From: rickert@NeXTwork.Rose-Hulman.Edu (John H. Rickert)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
Subject: Re:Alas, Pirates
Date: 15 Oct 1992 23:36:54 GMT
Organization: Computer Science Department at Rose-Hulman
Reply-To: rickert@NeXTwork.Rose-Hulman.Edu (John H. Rickert)
NNTP-Posting-Host: g215a-1.nextwork.rose-hulman.edu

In article <1450.2add6bd0@atlas.nafb.trw.com> mspede@atlas.nafb.trw.com  
writes:
> In article <15OCT92.15303095@vax.clarku.edu>, hhenderson@vax.clarku.edu  
writes:
> > Do you think if Mike LaValliere's arms were just a *little*
> > longer, they could have had Bream at the plate...?
> 
   Since you brought it up......... :-)
 
   I was thinking about the ole "best team is the winning team" arguments.
   Think about how the "best" team was't determined until...
      1) Sid Breams shoe size was determined
      2) LaValliere's arm length was measured
      3) Bonds choked on that throw home (couldn't get it 3 feet closer)
      4) Jay Bell's defensive positioning was off (note: my two year old
         kept me from seeing if Cabrerra's (sp?) hit was a grounder or a
         line drive.  IF line drive, THEN substitute #4 with #4a.
      4a) Jay bell couldn't jump high enough
>      etc 
How about until Belinda threw that pitch just a fraction of a mph too fast.
A little slower and it'd have been pulled closer to Bonds and he'd have  
gotten Bream. A little slower than that and it'd have been stopped by King  
for the 3rd out.

>   Fun game too watch !

I'll second that 

john rickert       rickert@nextwork.rose-hulman.edu
Berryhill *choked*! two men on and he *walks*! *no* runs scored. He cost the  
Braves a trip to the Series. By the way, how many 9th inn.RBI did Bream have?
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
Subject: Don't second guess Jim Leyland
From: rfd2001@andy.bgsu.edu (Ryan D)
Date: Fri, 16 Oct 1992 05:48:27 GMT
Followup-To: rec.sport.baseball
Organization: BGSU

In article <1992Oct15.145525.21623@cs.uwp.edu>, krueger@cs.uwp.edu (Gerald
Krueger) wrote:
> 
> Does anybody remember Fransisco Cabrerra's homerun last year off of
> Rob Dibble?  Cabrerra is a dead fastball hitter and I had a feeling
> he could hit Belinda but not Walk.  I think that if Leyland brings
> in Walk Pittsburgh fans wouldn't be suffering.  Anybody else share
> the same view?
> 
> 						Jerry
> -- How can you second guess Jim Leyland?  The Series should have been over two games ago.  Leyland is an exceptional manager.  Hindsight is 20/20.  Walk did have a good series though.  If I were an expansion team, I would try to sign Leyland as much as trying to sign caliber players.  I can't believe you remember him hitting a dinger off of Dibble though.  Cabrera has only seen limited action in his career, but will live forever in baseball history.  Was that a great ending or what??????
--Ryan--
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
From: mjs@fc.hp.com (Marc Sabatella)
Subject: Re: Random musings upon perusing Baseball Weekly statistics
Date: Wed, 7 Oct 1992 20:42:42 GMT
Reply-To: marc@hpmonk.fc.hp.com
Organization: Hewlett-Packard Fort Collins Site
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1.2 PL6]

: >                LEAUGUE AVG             BEST            WORST           DIFF
: >
: >3B AL           2.77                    Ventura  3.30   Lansford  2.29  1.01
: 							 ^^^^^^^^
: Amazing.  The Washington Post, in its playoff preview of the AL Championship
: Series, raved about "...the imeasurable impact of Carney Lansford's
: great defense on the A's starting pitching staff..."

Hence the technical term "mediot" for "people who loudly and repeatedly claim
that Lansford is anything but a tree stump".

Note isolated raw range factor numbers don't really prove anything, but when
Lansford is the worst in this, ABF/DEG and Defensive Average year after year,
it becomes pretty hard to deny that Lansford is essential immobile.  Of course,
simply watching him yields the same conclusion, unless you are fooled by his
flatfooted dives for anything more than 6 inches to the side, dives that are
doomed to failure if the ball is more than 11 inches to the side...

--
Marc Sabatella
marc@hpmonk.fc.hp.com
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
From: tedward@cs.cornell.edu (Edward [Ted] Fischer)
Subject: Re: Morris: more fuel for this debate
Organization: Cornell Univ. CS Dept, Ithaca NY 14853
Distribution: na
Date: Sun, 11 Oct 1992 00:08:57 GMT

In article <1992Oct10.195301.1095@island.COM> fester@island.COM (Mike Fester) writes:
>In article <1992Oct8.041014.21290@leland.Stanford.EDU> claudius@leland.Stanford.EDU (Nelson Lu) writes:
>
>>Ya know, an MVP is only worth at most 8-9 games.
>
>Really? Ya know, I really think Denny McLain or Bob Gibson in '68 might have
>been worth  a little more than that over, say, Joe Niekro.

Have you been taking lessons from Roger Maynard?  You are simply being
argumentative.  Yes, if you compare two of the best pitching seasons
in recent history with a below-average pitcher, you might get a
difference of more than eight games.  How about comparing them to
league average?  McLain had a 1.96 ERA in 336 IP.  League average was
a 2.98 ERA.  McLain allowed 73 earned runs.  An average pitcher would
have allowed 111 runs in that many innings.

The difference between McLain and an average pitcher that year was
really only about 40 runs or four wins.  The difference between McLain
and Niekro was about 90 runs, or nine wins.  Why did McLain have so
many wins?  Because the Tigers had an offense that was 100 runs better
than the third-best!  They averaged 4.09 R/G.

Wish I knew how many unearned runs McLain allowed that year.  The
league averaged about 1/8 of its runs unearned.  But the Tigers led
the league with the fewest errors.  Figure about 3/4 of the league
average.  Making probably only 1/11 of the runs unearned.  Figure
league average at 2.98, a 3.30 RA is likely.  Given the run support,
you would expect an average pitcher to have a 61% winning percentage,
or a 22.5-14.5 record (in 37 decisions)...  McLain was 31-6.  Clearly
no more than eight or nine wins over average.

I would think it was obvious.  Maybe you see it, but you just enjoy
nit-picking arguments: if you put an average pitcher on a strong
offensive team, he will have a winning record.  If you put a good
pitcher on a weak offensive team, he will have a losing record.  If
you put a weak pitcher on a weak offensive team, he will have a
20-loss season.  If you put a strong pitcher on a strong offensive
team, you get 20+++ wins.

Of course, Clemens managed a winning season pitching for the Red Sox.
But then, he got more run support than his teammates (which isn't
saying much), and besides he is better than merely good.

>Really? Well maybe. But the Angels as a team had the third lowest number of
>blown saves. They also had the 3rd best save conversion rate. But hey, maybe
>they blew 'em all on Abbott.

Quite possibly.  Reardon blew three saves for Clemens (in no more than
half a dozen chances).  There is some reason to expect bullpens to
blow more saves when following up for good pitchers.

-Valentine
-- 
Make outs, not walks!					tedward@cs.cornell.edu
Clemens four Cy Young!
From: jrmst8+@pitt.edu (Joseph R Mcdonald)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
Subject: Re: Pittsburg Fans
Date: 14 Oct 92 23:30:04 GMT
Organization: University of Pittsburgh

In article <1992Oct13.024705.24963@morgan.ucs.mun.ca> tconnors@morgan.ucs.mun.ca (Tim Connors ) writes:
>
>  I think the key to the high turnout of Pittsburgh fans is merely a
>reflection of the great Pittsburgh teams. The pens are the hockey
>champs, any hockey fan would like to see them play, the Pirates are the
>NL east champs, any fan in the area woulf enjoy them. Now if the
>Penguins and Pirates were in their respective basements, do you think
>the fans would turn out in drove? I don't.

But they DID turn out in droves for the Pens from 1984-1990.  The Pens
only made the playoffs once in that span.  

Pittsburgh's metropolitan area is the second smallest in the NL (only
San Diego is smaller).  So 2 million fans *IS* a very large amount in
comparison.  Though they are 11th in market size, they were 7th in 
attendance in the NL this year.  

PLUS....the Braves were drawing only 3000-4000 fans per game before they
started winning.   And they're market size is TWICE Pittsburgh's.  Would
Atlanta fans turn out in droves if they were in the basement?  Nope...they
didn't.   

So lay off Pittsburgh fans when you don't have the facts.

Dean

>     tconnors@morgan.ucs.mun.ca
>          Tim Connors
>
>Jays #1
>Kings #1
>Lions #1


-- 
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Dean J. Falcione                                   Dean's UNIX Exorcism Service 
(using jrmst8 by permission                             "We kill daemons" 
 of the owner, Joe McDonald)
From: sivaram@plains.NoDak.edu (Sivaram Hariharan )
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
Subject: Gruber Back to Form???
Date: 9 Oct 92 18:34:57 GMT
Organization: North Dakota Higher Education Computing Network


The silent bat of Gruber, exploded for a 2-run homer and a 
double, which lead to a run.

Well, if Gruber is back, Cito and the jays should be happy.
It would lend some more depth to the hitting, which looks
limited to the top of the order.

Anyway, I wish the Js the BEST OF LUCK!!!!. 
Kinda feel sorry for them and last year also I could not
help feeling sorry when the Twins beat them.

That McGuire's loud foul off Henke,,, sure made my heart
skip a bit. I think Js fans also underwent the same
experience.

S.H
Forever Twins

Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
From: tedward@cs.cornell.edu (Edward [Ted] Fischer)
Subject: Re: Morris: more fuel for this debate
Organization: Cornell Univ. CS Dept, Ithaca NY 14853
Distribution: na,local
Date: Mon, 12 Oct 1992 15:31:16 GMT

In article <1992Oct11.144529.1@violet.ccit.arizona.edu> f67700241@violet.ccit.arizona.edu (Greg Franklin) writes:
>In Game 4 of the ALCS, with the Jays up 2 games to 1 and looking to
>deal a killing blow to the A's, Jack Morris was taken out of the
>game in the 5th inning, leaving two men on with one out.  Toronto
>trailed 5-1.
>
>Any bets on whether Cito will start him in Game 7?

I bet there won't be one.  No slam on Oakland, but to even *get* to
game seven, they will have to beat Cone and Guzman.  This is a tall
task!  Chances are good that Cone will wrap it up this afternoon.  Of
course that's what I was saying about the Braves last night.  How can
a guy named Bob "Walk" pitch a complete-game shutout?  Not to mention
Barry Bonds breaking out big-time.  (Think he'll be a bit more relaxed
tomorrow?)

Cheers,
-Valentine
-- 
Make outs, not walks!					tedward@cs.cornell.edu
Clemens four Cy Young!
From: rickert@NeXTwork.Rose-Hulman.Edu (John H. Rickert)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
Subject: What's in a name? (WAS Re: 1992 Equivalent Averages-Pitchers)
Date: 9 Oct 1992 22:03:24 GMT
Organization: Computer Science Department at Rose-Hulman
Distribution: na
Reply-To: rickert@NeXTwork.Rose-Hulman.Edu (John H. Rickert)
NNTP-Posting-Host: g215a-1.nextwork.rose-hulman.edu

In article <1992Oct8.224851.6720@murdoch.acc.Virginia.EDU>  
drw3l@delmarva.evsc.Virginia.EDU (David Robert Walker) writes:
> These are the final 1992 statistics for all American League pitchers
> who started at least half of their games and started 10 games.
>                                    Clay Davenport
> 
>                      EPEQA   OUTS
>   1 ELDRED     MIL   0.185   295  (first)
>  71 ALDRED     DET   0.304   185  (last)

Too bad Olerud wasn't first among batters...

john rickert
rickert@nextwork.rose-hulman.edu
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
From: fester@island.COM (Mike Fester)
Subject: Re: Sheffield is NL MVP
Organization: /usr/local/rn/organization
Date: Thu, 8 Oct 1992 15:23:00 GMT

In article <1992Oct6.232744.12347@leland.Stanford.EDU> claudius@leland.Stanford.EDU (Nelson Lu) writes:
>In article <1992Oct6.182056.1015@island.COM> fester@island.COM (Mike Fester) writes:
>>
>>Now, it's no more "absurd" than saying "the problem with SLG is that it doesn't
>>include walks", now is it?
>
>It is.
>
>OBP is supposed to measure how often a player gets on base.
>
>SLG is supposed to measure how much a player moves the runners on base.

It is? I thought it was supposed to measure how far a long a batter moves
himself in a charged at-bat. So why don't they award say, 1.4 bases for a 
single and, oh, 2.5 bases for a double?

>But the problem is that SLG doesn't do that; the fact that it doesn't include
>walks, which moves runners sometimes, makes it problematic.

And Nelson, the fact that it doesn't account for moving runners farther along
than 1 base on a single and 2 bases on a double would SEEM to indicate that
you just aren't understanding the concept here. 

>You mentioned that OBP gives a walk and a homer equal weight, but what else do
>you expect it to do?  It is *not* a measure of total offense; it is only
>supposed to measure how often a player gets on base; no more, no less.

And SLG is SUPPOSED to measure how far the batter gets per at bat without 
costing his team a runner; no more no less.

Mike

-- 
Disclaimer - I'm only doing what the little voices tell me to do.
From: tmiller@prism.gatech.EDU (Thomas Miller)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
Subject: Re: The Jays
Date: 13 Oct 92 21:37:19 GMT
Organization: Georgia Institute of Technology

In article <BvzuJJ.KHI@undergrad.math.waterloo.edu>, sali@undergrad.math.waterloo.edu (Sayf Ali) writes:

...

> Jay's all the way in '92... Are you ready Atlanta?



  Hopefully!     :)




-- 
Thomas Miller      Georgia Tech Network Services        GT EE 1992 (?!) 
WORK: (404) 853-0254 / Rich Bldg Rm 127, 258 4th St  Atlanta, Ga. 30332
HOME: (404) 351-1017 / 1185 Collier Rd NW apt 2A     Atlanta, Ga. 30318 
Internet:  tmiller@prism.gatech.edu   or   thomas.miller@oit.gatech.edu
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
From: ecaxron@ariel.lerc.nasa.gov (Ron Graham)
Subject: Re: RG's 1992 Tribe Front Office Report Card
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41    
Organization: NASA Lewis Research Center
Distribution: na
Date:  7 Oct 1992 09:44 EST  

In article <1992Oct6.082125.4566@desire.wright.edu>, 
     rocker@desire.wright.edu writes...

>	You forgot one really big, great move by the from office.
>	Moving the AAA team into the IL.  Now I can route for a Tribe team
>instead of a Yankee team.

You're right.  There were several announcements made at about the same time:
first, that there would be two new AAA franchises to accommodate Colorado and
Florida; second, that Montreal was interested in the franchise given to 
Ottawa, PO; third, that Colorado was interested in the former Tribe franchise
at Colorado Springs.  These three announcements together left open the new
franchise at Charlotte, NC and the former Expos franchise at Indianapolis.

Either one was acceptable: Indianapolis because it's close to Cleveland and
AA Canton-Akron (I would've gone to see a game at Indy); but the Tribe chose
Charlotte because it's close to several of the lower minors teams, including
A Kinston and A Columbus, GA.

RG

Mark Lewis hit .264 with 5 HR and 30+ RBI and said he had "a great year."
I'd hate to see a piss-poor one.
From: re4@prism.gatech.EDU (RUSSELL EARNEST)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
Subject: The future of AFS
Date: 9 Oct 92 15:38:11 GMT
Organization: Georgia Institute of Technology

Someone earlier pointed out that Atlanta Fulton County Stadium would be used
for parking after the Braves moved to the Olympic Stadium to be built.  This
is true. If you have ever been there, or to any of the 'cookie cutter' stadi
mentioned earlier, you know that access to the upper decks is via ramps about
10 feet wide.

The plan is to tear out all but the steel superstructure of the stadium and
build in parking decks above the field and where the existing seats are.  These
decks would be accessed by the existing ramps.

The field level its self will be perserved as an historic site with things like
a plaque in left center where Hank sent 715 over the wall and the first World 
Series trophy ever brought to the South ensconced at home plate.

There will also be a helicopter pad on the roof to allow rapid transit to and
from Suwanee.

-- 
"I can't understand it.  Everybody I know needs what I'm selling." - Calvin
 - RUSSELL EARNEST     Georgia Institute of Technology, Atlanta Georgia, 30332
uucp: ...!{allegra,amd,hplabs,seismo,ut-ngp}!gatech!prism!re4
ARPA: re4@prism.gatech.edu
From: rinehart@aramis.rutgers.edu (Mark J. Rinehart)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
Subject: Re: Personalities of players
Date: 16 Oct 92 14:23:39 GMT
Organization: Rutgers Univ., New Brunswick, N.J.

In article <1992Oct16.060011.27000@Princeton.EDU> niepornt@phoenix.Princeton.EDU (David Marc Nieporent) writes:

> Rickey Henderson, one of the most maligned people in the game today, at
> least as far as character.
> The New York Times reported yesterday that after the playoffs ended,
> Rickey was the only member of the A's who came over and congratulated
> the Blue Jays.  Joe Carter was quoted as saying, "On the field he's a
> real competitor, but off the field, he's really a nice guy."


And to contrast that, deion sanders dumps 3 buckets of ice water on
Tim McCarver in the Braves clubhouse - apparently, McCarver had some
not so nice things to say about deion concerning playing baseball and
football in the same day, and deion was showing *his* character. Up
til the time I heard that report, I pretty much had been a deion
supporter, but no more. 


Mark
From: tmiller@prism.gatech.EDU (Thomas Miller)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
Subject: Atlanta Destruction
Date: 15 Oct 92 05:55:32 GMT
Organization: Georgia Institute of Technology




  Holy cow!


  Here in downtown Atlanta, on the GT campus, they have created a
huge bonfire in the middle of the street.  Even now, the fire dept.
is spraying down the crowd!  Traffic lights have been torn apart...
chaos everywhere...it's incredible...and I was _there_!  
  This is what I get for working late...   :)

  This city is in a total and complete FRENZY!  Incredible game!
Incredible performances by many people!  No woofing, I salute you,
Pirates.  Drabek, Bonds, Van Slyke in particular.



Thomas


ps  Smoltz got NLCS MVP



-- 
Thomas Miller      Georgia Tech Network Services        GT EE 1992 (?!) 
WORK: (404) 853-0254 / Rich Bldg Rm 127, 258 4th St  Atlanta, Ga. 30332
HOME: (404) 351-1017 / 1185 Collier Rd NW apt 2A     Atlanta, Ga. 30318 
Internet:  tmiller@prism.gatech.edu   or   thomas.miller@oit.gatech.edu
From: drw3l@delmarva.evsc.Virginia.EDU (David Robert Walker)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
Subject: Equivalent Average: Last 10 Years
Date: 8 Oct 92 23:01:23 GMT
Distribution: na
Organization: University of Virginia

This is included for reference's sake with my other EQA postings.
It lists the league champions in EPEQA and EPER since 1982.

      AL      EPEQA           EPER    NL       EPEQA            EPER
1992  Thomas    .349  Thomas     147    Bonds      .378  Bonds      148
1991  Thomas    .346  Thomas     142    Bonds      .332  Bonds      128
1990  HendersonR.378  HendersonR 151    Bonds      .335  Bonds      131
1989  McGriff   .323  McGriff    132    Mitchell   .349  Mitchell   147
1988  Boggs     .337  Canseco    149    Strawberry .331  Strawberry 139
1987  Boggs     .349  Boggs      134    Clark J    .349  Gwynn      134
1986  Boggs     .328  Mattingly  139    Raines     .326  Raines     130
1985  Brett     .346  Mattingly  140    Guerrero   .356  Raines     138
1984  Murray    .327  Murray     136    Raines     .323  Raines     143
1983  Boggs     .324  Ripken     124    Murphy     .314  Murphy     127
1982  Yount     .332  Yount      146    Schmidt    .332  Guerrero   130

Clay Davenport
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball