HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: torban@csuvax1.csu.murdoch.edu.au (Torban Bennett)
Subject: Re: Son on Sexism in RPG
Organization: Murdoch University
Date: 12 Oct 92 10:36:13 GMT

cn0n+@andrew.cmu.edu (Cynthia K. Neelan) writes:


>Thank all of you for your posts on the subject.  You have offered me
>your insight from years of experience.  I am fairly new to RPB.  I
                                                            ^^^
  ?!?!?  Me too!   We call 'em RPG's  ;-) ;-) ;-)


>For instance I fight sword and shield for the SCA and I love it...
>*grin*
                                               ^^^
     Hang on now I feel like a newbie .  Please explain.

Torban
From: cm182s182@pdrome.UUCP (Clayton Miner)
Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.advocacy
Subject: System for Newbie GM
Date: 11 Oct 92 12:06:02 GMT
Organization: The PowerDrome BBS [(716)825-3614 Excelsior]
X-BBS-Software: EXCELSIOR! v0.960

I think you answered your own question there.  If the GM is willing to learn 
anything and is willing to take the time to delve into a system he or she is 
completely unfamiliar with, then this is fine.  We all have to start some 
where and if this is the genre that this referee is interested in, then let 
them have fun.  Sure, we all make mistakes (I know I do and I have been doing 
this since 1975) but if they learn from these mistakes, then they are a better 
ref i nthe long run.  Sounds like you have a good referee there, don't lose 
him/her.

 Skeksis
From: CS341A002@Husky1.StMarys.Ca (Loki)
Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.advocacy
Subject: Re: A Free (condensed) RPG
Date: 11 Oct 92 15:20:17 GMT
Article-I.D.: nstn.1992Oct11.152703.28098
Organization: The Underground
X-News-Reader: VMS NEWS 1.13.SMU

dfn@ccwf.cc.utexas.edu writes:
> Any feedback on the minirules would be appreciated.

Strikes me as somewhere between DragonQuest and RoleMaster. Since DQ is my
favourite fantasy roleplay system, and I don't mind ChartMaster, not bad.

Only one thing... that SR system. Where you *add* your SR to a D100. I've
always hated that whole idea. I'd rather be trying to roll my target number
or less on the D100... the way DragonQuest does it. (Hey, I've got a 73%
with my longbow, I rolled a 61, that's a hit... or: I rolled a 4, that's a
grievous injury! Yay!)

However, that's not a big thing and it's something I do to modify RM a lot
anyway...

I don't like the point-allocation obsession. There should be, somewhere,
rules for *rolling* up characters, not just generating them. (Point-alloc
is cool, but rolled characters can be more fun sometimes...)

*Not* a system for neos to roleplaying. But then, neither are DQ or RM.

           Most commonly known as Loki, occasionally sysop of TWWOL
      SCA: Brynjolfr Myrkjartanarson, founder of the Compaignie Mercurie
        The Net: cs341a002@husky1.stmarys.ca, cs341a002@stmarys.bitnet

Random Quote of the Day:
The Dark Horde denies all responsibility. No warranty was ever expressed nor
implied, and that knife in your back was probably put there by one of your
friends anyway.

                 --- Smilin' Ali
From: bb2u+@andrew.cmu.edu (Brian Bankler)
Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.advocacy
Subject: Re: PROPOSAL: alt.games.frp.live...
Date: 14 Oct 92 12:54:54 GMT
Organization: Masters student, Electrical and Computer Engineering, Carnegie Mellon, Pittsburgh, PA


	To Arthur C. Adams and anyone else interested in Live Action.

	When I first thought about it, I was of the "Sure!  Great!" Opinion.
(The fact that I am about to formally announce the Live Action Game
that is being run at Balticon could have something to do with that).  But
in calmer moments, I think that you should keep it in the frp.* structure.

	1)  As has been pointed out, IFGS and ILF/SIL games are radically
different.  Most if not all sILf games are not fantasy based, although quite
a few are based on current rpgs, whereas (by my understanding) most if
not all IFGS games are fantasy, outdoors, etc.

	2)  The traffic doesn't really justify it.  I suggest that you start
posting a few threads on the frp group of your choice.  They can handle
it.  If people can post diatribes about Sexism in RPGs, then they can
certainly handle a discussion of new types of gaming.  Which brings me
to my main point.

	3)  I believe that certain systems that allow the rec.* groups
ban access to the alt.* groups.  This would prevent interested parties
from participating.  On the other hand, I know of no system that allows
alt groups that bans rec groups.

	4)  I think that you would create more interest in both IFGS and
sILf games if you post them on a newsgroup that (currently) more people
read.  [Of course, the newsgroup should be topical].  How many people
would like to play in a LARP game but don't know anything, or feel
intimidated or are wondering about How does it Work?  (This question
is rhetorical.  If you feel like answering, Email me and, if the response
is high enough, I'll post a summary).  
	Here at CMU they have an interesting news-server.  It also has,
built in, several mailing lists.  I was doing a scan and I found...
	"internet.sil-info"
	Now, there is no way I would have known that that was a live
action game, were it not for the fact that I was a member.  While your
name does seem a bit more understandable, I still think that you might
miss people who would otherwise be interested.

	In summary, I suggest holding off, starting the discussion on
one of the frp.groups....advocacy or misc or something.  I have already
noticed that frp.announce routinely has live action announcements, so
that is being taken care of.  After a few weeks/months/years, if the
bandwidth warrents, then we can try to get a new newsgroup under
the rec.games.frp.flag.

					Brian Bankler

	Stay Tuned to this Newsgroup for Balticon LARP Info!
Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.advocacy
From: seurer@rchland.vnet.ibm.com (Bill Seurer)
Subject: Re: Sexism in Gaming
Date: Thu, 08 Oct 1992 01:42:21 GMT
Reply-To: BillSeurer@vnet.ibm.com
Disclaimer: This posting represents the poster's views, not necessarily those of IBM
Organization: IBM Rochester

In article <batemanc.718459790@p4.cs.man.ac.uk>, batemanc@p4.cs.man.ac.uk (Mad Chris) writes:
|> 
|> "If a player wishes his character to do <action> he must <action>."
|> 
|> becomes
|> 
|> "If a player wishes to do <action>, they must <action>."
|> 

I hate to be picky, but that is not proper English since "a player" is
singular and "they" is plural (or used with indefinites like "everybody").
Substitute something other than "a player" (like "Sally" or "Joe") and it 
is more obvious then.

Try,

     "If players wish to do <action> they must <action>."

or
     "If a player wishes to do <action> the player must <action>."

(I get burned by stuff like this all the time in my technical writing but
it must be starting to sink in...)

- Bill Seurer     Language and Compiler Development      IBM Rochester, MN
  Internet: BillSeurer@vnet.ibm.com    America On-Line: BillSeurer@aol.com
From: cm182s182@pdrome.UUCP (Clayton Miner)
Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.advocacy
Subject: Re: Newbie System?
Date: 11 Oct 92 12:02:37 GMT
Organization: The PowerDrome BBS [(716)825-3614 Excelsior]
X-BBS-Software: EXCELSIOR! v0.960

The Bond system is an excellent system, but there is one flaw that I can point 
out in it.  As with any system designing characters based on points needs an 
understanding of how those points will effect the charcter's survival (this 
holds true for EVERY game with points, even Star Wars) and it is easy in Bond 
to design characters that all but get in their own way.  For the experienced 
gamer this might not be a bad thing as the gamer will probably just try again 
but for a new gamer, it could put a damper on things being hampered with a 
mediocre character.  When looking for the perfect game for new players the 
frustration factor must be considered also.  Don't get me wrong, I love the 
Bond system and I *do* think it is an excellent, easy to use system that will 
appeal to begining players.  Maybe the ideal solution in this instance would 
be for the referee to create several characters in advance and let the players 
try them out or do as we did for the first session (mind you we were all 
experienced) and spend the evening working on characters, putting them thorugh 
their paces, generally seeing the effects of how we spent the points.
 
Skeksis
Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.advocacy
From: ketil@linerle.ii.uib.no (Ketil M. Malde)
Subject: Re: Y/TCT Minirules
Reply-To: ketil@ii.uib.no
Organization: student of computer science at the University of Bergen, Norway
Date: 14 Oct 92 14:38:34

In article <1992Oct13.234503.21065@trl.oz.au> mathers@sibelius.trl.oz.au (Steven Mathers) writes:

   From: mathers@sibelius.trl.oz.au (Steven Mathers)
   Date: 13 Oct 92 23:45:03 GMT

   We get to pick to pieces someone's game rules?  great!

Yes, isn't it :-)
   .
   :
   You seem to have a LOT of stats here.  Generally I am in favour of
   decreasing the number of stats, especially stats like:

Yes.  Nice and simple.

   Charisma:  Depends largely on the player
   Appearance:  Why not let the player describe the character's appearance?
   Social standing:  More a factor in the character's background than a
		     statistic.
   Intelligence:  Hmmm.  I am inclined to loose this one also.  have you
   ever seen a player roleplay a character smarter than himself?  And in
   95% of the games I have played, player's never really play a dumb
   character as really dumb.  INT seems a kludgey stat at best.

Hmm, yes, I think I agree to that one.  SOme stats need to be
roleplayed, perhaps the rules should be in such a way that the GM has
the *opportunity* to force players to play according to stats, if they
don't voluntarily?  ("Sorry, but you have a WILL of 003, I think you
better roll before you attack the giant Shogwagthz")  I dunno...

   [..]

   YIKES!  Things get scary when a player has to perform grade-school math
   to design a character.  You seem to have played a lot of Runequest I
   would guess.   

As someone pointed out, it can be forgiven in the character creation
stage, especially if you have a char. sheet like that in Twilight2000
where you just have to follow instructions and insert the appropriate
numbers.  DUring game *play* however, math should be kept at a minimum.

   [...]

   |> Combat
   |>         Combat uses the same basic skill system.  Characters purchase
   |> attack and defense skills with specific weapons or techniques,
   |> and the SRs 

I like the idea (though not very original?)
   
   [...]

   REDUCE COMPLEXITY! REDUCE COMPLEXITY!

   My feeling is that comabt systems should be quick, deadly, and exciting.
   Bogging down in calculations is no fun.

   HIT POINTS:  The old standby.  Ever thought of loosing them completely?

Agreed! :-)

  [...]

--
 = Ketil Malde                     In real life:  ketil@ii.uib.no =
 = Nuke the whales!                    Honk if you love unicorns! =
Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.advocacy
From: urban@stout.atd.ucar.edu (Art Urban (PROFS))
Subject: Re: game vs reality simulation
Organization: Atmospheric Technology Division/NCAR Boulder, CO
Date: Mon, 12 Oct 1992 20:34:36 GMT

In article <7eeBsB4w165w@swob.nullnet.fi> maxxon@swob.nullnet.fi (Mikko Kurki-Suonio) writes:
%urban@stout.atd.ucar.edu (Art Urban (PROFS)) writes:
%>  5) HT rolls to avoid knockout due to blows to the head are made at -1 for
%>  every 5 points of basic damage (before armor) done.
%
%This is better, I think I might actually use it. But why BEFORE armor?
%Padded helmets such as motorcycle helmets make your head practically
%invulnerable to fists and most other concussions of not sufficient force
%to affect your neck. If mods are before armor, no amount of padding will
%help you to stay conscious.

Fine. Whatever. I guess I was simply recalling the line in GURPS considdering
knock-back. Armor protects you from the damage, but it does not prevent you
from "feeling" the impact of it.

Keep in mind 14 points of damage is only -2, and 14 points of damage is a
darn fine hit...


--
Art Urban 					       urban@stout.atd.ucar.edu
===============================================================================
 "Oh no! The canary exploded!"                                      -Tom Servo 
===============================================================================
Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.advocacy
From: cm182s182@pdrome.UUCP (Clayton Miner)
Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.advocacy
Subject: Re: Newbie System?
Date: 11 Oct 92 12:06:47 GMT
Organization: The PowerDrome BBS [(716)825-3614 Excelsior]
X-BBS-Software: EXCELSIOR! v0.960

Well...I thought the third movie sucked pretty bad... ;)
 
Skeksis
Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.advocacy
From: thiggins@cix.compulink.co.uk (Tarry Higgins)
Subject: Re: (Hero) What is the best Psionics system?
Reply-To: thiggins@cix.compulink.co.uk
Date: Wed, 14 Oct 1992 18:37:44 +0000


Re: (Hero) What is the best Psionics system?
in Message <1bf603INN62g@charnel.ecst.csuchico.edu> tdunnwrites

> I'd rather there be a system that is conducive to the referee being able
> to maintain some mystery and some wierdness to the game.  It's difficult
> to scare players playing in a brightly-lit room, and it's difficult to 
> scare players playing with a well-structured rules system.
 
well the only way that you can do this is by having rules that the 
players aren't aware of, otherwise how can you maintain the mystery 
and wierdness of the game.  It's harder to scare players who know the 
rules, but not impossible.  What is wrong with rolling dice and 
telling a player he is stunned, you don't have to tell him why, at 
least not until he recovers.  

Taz AKA thiggins@cix.compulink.co.uk AKA Tarry A Higgins
The only valid test is combat,           
The only valid result is victory.
Organization: Arizona State University
Date: Wednesday, 14 Oct 1992 12:05:05 MST
From: <ICECW@ASUACAD.BITNET>
Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.advocacy
Subject:    Dislike role-playing/Love Gming!

I have Dmed/Gmed roleplaying games for 14 years and I love it!  Mostly AD&D,
Runequest, and Warhammer Fantasy Roleplay.  I'm fascinated by game mechanics
and world backgrounds.  But one thing I've never enjoyed much about role-
playing games is role-playing!  I mean, I HAVE role-played, and it's OK,
but I don't enjoy it.  I always thought it was from a lack of really good,
experienced game-masters.  Maybe I'm just a control freak :-)  I dunno!
My games have always been very successful and until recently I've never lacked
players (I think my age group-30+ has kinda moved out of role-playing--kids,
jobs, etc. <love to hear from some older gamers out there!> not that I don't
have both myself I just can't let rpgs go that easy!)

Any comments!  Are there other folks that feel this way?!?
Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.advocacy
From: npb41275@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (Noah Ban)
Subject: Re: Sexism in Gaming
Organization: University of Illinois at Urbana
Date: Wed, 7 Oct 1992 17:13:05 GMT

Concerning Cindy's post on sexism and RPGS:

Let me first say that I agree with most of what you say, but I
don't think that your problems are universal to all gaming groups.
But let me analyze this piece by piece.

1. Damsels in distress.
I agree with this.  This plotline is cliche and stereotypical and being
a writer as well as a gamer I like to avoid this whenever possible.
Have you ever had "mass helpless female rescue missions" in a published
module/adventure?  That would really perturb me.

2. No Female NPCs 
This is a problem, granted, but if your GM is male, give him a little leeway.
I am male, a player and GM in many games, and I find that as a GM
I tend to make a lot of male NPCs out of habit.  It's a flaw, and should
be pointed out.  I'm not sure why this occurs, but I think it's because
I tend to make NPCs I feel I can role-play and unconsciously I feel 
I wouldn't play the woman right.  However, in published supplements and
adventures my players say I play women quite well, so it's probably jsut
me.  I suspect that it's a habit to default NPCs to your own sex, and
I do agree it's a GM flaw that should be worked out.

3. Treating females in the party w/o respect
In the Star Wars campaign that I play in, we have several girls and some
of them are our most valued members!  I think this has to do with the people
you play with and not the game itself.  Although the pool of females interested
in RPGS I have found is quite small, I know in all my games females are never
given any less credit than males.  
The only exception I could see is if you played in a sexist world (e.g. 
Victorian England, barbarian lands, etc.).  But this would be considered
chr.-chr interaction and should not be confused with player opinion.

4.  The male pronoun
An old debate, I won't get into it.  But it should be noted that the Vampire
rulebooks contain more female pronoun references (to the general M or F) than
male.

My humble opinions....

NPB



Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.advocacy
From: wildcard@nevada.edu ( WildCard !!)
Subject: Re: Sexism in Gaming
Organization: Shadowland BBS, RPG Division
Date: Wed, 7 Oct 1992 22:49:35 GMT

In article <Bvrnzu.J05@watdragon.uwaterloo.ca> badorion@watyew.uwaterloo.ca (Brian A. Dorion) writes:

>I'm quite suprised at this, the groups I've played with have usually
>been very open about cross gender role playing.  In fact I've known
>some people who perferred to play members of the opposite sex.

My group is also very open-minded about cross-gender role-playing. There are
no sneers or any other adolescent b.s. about someone wanting to play the sex
that they are not. I guess I'm kinda lucky.  The oddest thing that's happened
is that I have a female player playing a female PC who is an agressive violent
sort, but has a traditionally male name: "Danny" And she denies that it is
short for Danielle or some such name. Her character happens to think the name
"Dan" is the greatest name. The real confusing part is that most players
(especially new or visiting ones) are stunned for a couple seconds when she
says something like "Dan is walking all sexy and trying to seduce the big,
hairy security guard to get him distracted."  then they remember that Dan is
a hetero woman... :)

As a GM, I welcome any cross-gender role-playing. Many have taken up the
mantle, as it were, and done a remarkable job at it. Often, thought, if a male
plays a female, he doesn't control the character realistically like a female.
This is *my* problem, in particular. I can't have female PCs or NPCs I play
"feel" like women to the other players. If it weren't for the physical 
descriptions, most have said that they imagine a man in the N/PCs spot. I
dunno. I can never seem to get it right.   :/
Again, in my experience, women gamers have little or no trouble having their
characters act like convincing males.

I am not in any sense sayingthat this is *how it is*. I am sure that I will
see many posts telling me that my perceptions are wrong. 

I'm just saying "This is my experience with the subject" in the hopes that many
are edified by it. :)

                                        - WildCard !!


+-----------------------------------------------------------------------------+
+"This is typical retrograde, low-tech, Chevy Impala-type thinking. We non-   +
+ linear, postindustrial children of the Information Age, however, know that  +
+ the important thing is the Big Picture."  - Cecil Adams, _the_Straight_Dope_+
+ ---------------     wildcard@redrock.nevada.edu     ------------------------+
From: maxxon@swob.nullnet.fi (Mikko Kurki-Suonio)
Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.advocacy
Subject: Re: game vs reality simulation
Date: Wed, 07 Oct 92 22:01:07 EDZ
Distribution: world
Organization: Sweet Oblivion

a481@mindlink.bc.ca (J.D. Frazer) writes:

> > Pistol rounds are not designed to work against bones (this is true).
> > Hitting a bone WILL lessen chances of mortal wound and incapacitation.
> 
> This is not *entirely* true. The .45 for example.

.45 ACP was not designed to do anything, as we know design today. It was
"designed" at the very start of the century to replace underpowered .38
service cartridge - gunsmiths then knew even less about trauma,
penetration, permanent and temporary cavities etc. than today. It's just
the biggest feasible hole, bullet weight and velocity, given early
1900's technology and materials, that could be comfortably fired from a
handgun. Heck, they couldn't even accurately determine bullet velocity.

.45 ACP is a good cartridge capable of tremendous damage, especially
with modern bullet designs. But it wasn't really designed as later
rounds such as .44 magnum, 10mm auto or .40 S&W were.

> I agree that hitting bone with low energy rounds will lessen chances of
> outright debilitation, but even medium energy rounds like the 5.56mm will
> mess up a sternum.

"Medium" energy 5.56NATO has nearly about 2000 J energy - by comparison,
9x19mm has about 600 J, .45ACP 500 J, .44 magnum 1400 J and .357 magnum
800 J.

Rifle and pistol energies are two totally different things.

> Bryce Koike wrote that. Having a problem with attributions today? :)

This flaming has gone on too long. Sorry for the mistake.

--------
maxxon@swob.nullnet.fi (Mikko Kurki-Suonio)
Sweet Oblivion (+358 0 8092678, V.32bis 8N1) Official SRP Headquarters


Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.advocacy
From: heinr@sci.kun.nl (Hein Ragas)
Subject: Re: First game (was Re: Who do you game with?)
Organization: University of Nijmegen, The Netherlands
Date: Thu, 15 Oct 1992 09:40:02 GMT

In article <1992Oct13.171906.6634@nevada.edu>, wildcard@nevada.edu ( WildCard !!) writes:
> .... [stuff deleted] 
> I have now read several responses and it seems to me that everyone that 
> followed up started out with DND except for me. Now I admit I'm pretty
> young but there had to be more games out there. I myself started playing (and
> GMing) Avlons Hill's ill-fated Powers and Perils and *then* was introduced to 
> DND.
> [more stuff deleted] 
> Anyways, my point is:  did anyone else start out with a game other than DND?
>                       If so, how do you think your game preferences and 
>                       attitudes have been influenced by it?

The first RPG I played was RoleMaster. And, as of today, I haven't ran 
across a game-system that equals it, in both flexability and realism, without
sacrificing playability. (Yes, I know what y'all seem to think about RoleMaster,
but if you have troubles with the charts, then you play it the wrong way.)
I admit I have never played D&D or AD&D, but that's because I think these 
systems stink. I read thru both D&D and AD&D, and it didn't have the feel
of reality I want in a game. It is my personal opinion, that D&D and AD&D
are designed for hack & slay-types of scenarios, and I want more out of
a game. And RoleMaster provides the framework in which I can create 
anything I want. (I GM most of the time.)
To each his/her own, I guess. ;)

Hein Ragas
heinr@sci.kun.nl
From: cm182s182@pdrome.UUCP (Clayton Miner)
Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.advocacy
Subject: Re: Realism Vs. Games
Date: 8 Oct 92 00:29:12 GMT
Organization: The PowerDrome BBS [(716)825-3614 Excelsior]
X-BBS-Software: EXCELSIOR! v0.960

When it comes to Phoenix Command, I tend to use it for a evenings 
RPG/Miniatures game.  That, I think, is really the niche the game fits best in.
 
Skeksis
Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.advocacy