From: ems@michael.apple.com (E. Michael Smith)
Subject: Re: Where to get Electric
Organization: Apple Computer Inc, Cupertino, CA
Date: Fri, 6 Nov 1992 20:06:13 GMT

In article <3902.1017.uupcb@spacebbs.com> howard.smith@spacebbs.com (Howard Smith)  writes:

>The accursed, lead acid battery is what is holding the electric
>automobile back, but with the battery consortium sitting on the nickel
>metal hydride battery, 

What 'battery consortium' is 'sitting on' NiMH batteries?  

Given that I've bought 4 AA cells (and others are avialiable from 
Real Goods mail order...) and that the latest Apple product (the 
Duo, I think it's called) uses a NiMH battery, it doesn't look to
me like the battery technology is being sat upon...  It is a new
technology, so there are higher startup costs and tooling time
and market development delays... buy NiMH is growing 'like a weed'!

>and and General Motors sitting on the lithium
>polymer battery 

Another rather new technology.  These were written up in a Sci. Am.
article as something that was being more fully developed by the 
Japanese, but showing alot of promise.

>(the two most likely technologies), we may have a wait
>yet.

Are you really really SURE that these are being sat on?  It looks
to me more like the typical 3-4 year time lag between a technology
being shown to work well, and product rollout in limited markets, 
followed by another 1-2 year lag to shake out the bugs (and licence
fees ...) before rollout to major markets.

Seems like normal 'prudent' business to me ...

>It is also quite easy to destroy a internal combustion engine in 3500
>mile.

Hey!  I've done it in less than that!  (Redline, what's redline? ;-)

>PN>>If it was 'only' a couple of grand to bolt in a {motor,batteries, controlle
>PN>>etc.} I'd be willing to try it ...
>
>PN>You're talking about a lot of fancy expensive power electronics. Cost may go
>PN>down eventually but right now a couple of grand seems very very low.
>
>Your generalization about cost, derived from one poorly written article
>in the EE Times, does not fit today's electric automobile industry
>as a whole. With simpler electronics and the use of the variable gearing
>in the existing mechanical transmission, a California certified
>conversion that will meet his needs can be had for less than $6000.

Unfortunately, $6000 isn't quite what I meant by 'a couple of grand' ...
Guess I'll wait a while longer ...  I can see $1k for the batteries
and $1k for the motor and electronics.  Maybe even another $1k for
a larger battery load if I wanted a range greater than the 30 miles
I really need (i.e. 60 miles so I can do 'long' trips!).  But that
is still only 1/2 of $6k.

Thanks to all the folks who sent me names of suppliers.  As I get time,
I'll contact some of them for prices.  Maybe I can chisle the price 
down by buying some of the parts 'wholesale' ...

>However, the ultimate electric vehicle would employ an electric motor
>in each wheel with coordinated electronic speed control, powered by a
>hydrogen fuel cell, and with dynamic, electric breaking to put energy
>back into storage. 

I've actually considered putting a couple of small Emotors into 
the rear wheel wells and keeping the gas engine in front.  Since
I have a very simple rear wheel arrangement, it should be 'doable'.
It would all be custom work, though, and rather more than I want
to get into right now...

The fuel cell, though, makes it a fuel powered vehicle, not an
electric in the classical sense.  One could argue, by your logic,
that an onboard diesel/electric generator driving an electric motor
made an 'electric car'...

Oh, and one of the biggest potential wins of the NiMH battery is
its very high charge/discharge rate.  Should help soak up peaks
from regenerative braking...

>The reason we don't have mass
>production of such a clean, efficient, electric vehicle is strictly
>political.

Nope.  Mostly market driven.  The vast majority of folks just
don't want a car they can only get 100 miles out of per day 
and that has to have its battery water checked weekly and that
has to have a new set of expensive batteries every couple of years.

And they don't want to pay $10k extra for exotic batteries when gas
is $1.20/gallon ...

-- 

E. Michael Smith  ems@apple.COM

'Whatever you can do, or dream you can, begin it.  Boldness has
 genius, power and magic in it.'  -  Goethe

I am not responsible nor is anyone else.  Everything is disclaimed.