From: brian@lpl.arizona.edu (Brian Ceccarelli 602/621-9615)
Newsgroups: talk.religion.misc,alt.atheism
Subject: Re: Where does Adam and Eve Fit In?   Attn:  Benedikt
Date: 25 Jan 93 20:20:48 GMT
Organization: Lunar & Planetary Laboratory, Tucson AZ.


 
Benedikt Rosenau (I3150101@dbstu1.rz.tu-bs.de) says:

>Anyway, as far as denouncing (our god is bigger than theirs) goes, the story
>tells that god used to care for all humans, but all the other people have
>fallen from grace.

Brian Ceccarelli (brian@gamma1.lpl.arizona.edu) replies:

>Maybe you should read the story before interpreting it for them. Or do
>you believe, Benedikt, that one  can tell us the plot and details and
>purpose of a book and all its characters without reading it?  Guess
>what?  Your two presumptions have no basis.  They are Biblically
>incorrect.

Benedikt responds:

>Biblically incorrect, what a joke.

The two incorrect presumptions that I see in your first statement are
these:

1.  " . . . the story tells that god *used* to care for all humans."

2.  " . . . but all *other* people have fallen from grace."


The story actually says this:

1.  God still cares for all humans.

2.  All people have fallen from grace.  (your meaning of the word grace).

Apparently you missed the most popular verse of the Bible:  John 3:16;
otherwise, you would have refrained from your first presumption.

Apparently you haven't read Romans 3:23 either; otherwise,
you would have refrained from your second presumption.

Benedikt asks:
 
>What do you mean? Do you dispute that there are sayings in the OT
>like that god makes a deal with only a subset of humans?

What does these have to do with God caring for all humans?  Does
God choosing to reveal himself to the world through one people 
mean that he doesn't care for all humans?  Nonseqituir Benedikt.
Try again.   Does the fact that the Red Cross uses volunteers to 
distribute medical supplies to needy people mean that the Red Cross
doesn't care for the needy people because their own staff doesn't
distribute the food themselves?  Red Cross volunteers enjoy what
they do.  They feel good about it.  They are glad to get a piece
of the action.  The recipients of their service also give a hearty,
if not also life-giving, thanks.

>And that those who worship figurative gods are an abomination?

Do you approve of child sacrifices to the fire such as the Ammonites
to their figurative god Molech? 

>And that the deal is not made with them.

Yes, of course, God made deals with the people.  Unfortunately the
Hebrews couldn't keep their end of the deal.  But God kept His
end despite that.  Check out "covenant" in a Bible dictionary.  

Note the words "all", "whoever" and "world" in the following:

John 3:16-17

     For God so loved the *world" that he gave his one and only
     Son, that *whoever* believes in him shall not perish but
     have eternal life.  For God did not send his Son into the
     world to condemn the world, but to *save* the world through
     him.

Romans 3:22-24

     This righteousness from God comes through faith in Jesus
     Christ to all who believe.  There is no difference, for all
     have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, and are
     justified freely by his grace through the redemption that
     came by Christ Jesus.

From the apostle Peter in Acts 10:34.

     The Peter began to speak: "I now realize how true
     it is that God does not show favoritism but accepts men
     from every nation who fear him and do what is right.


Benedikt, I really wish you would read the Bible so that
you would get your story straight.  For your sake.  You can't
pick out a verse here and there and come to a conclusion about
the entire Bible.  From the Christian perspective, the Bible
has one author--God, but many writers--the prophets and apostles
who wrote down what God said to them.  Each book of the Bible
relates to the next regardless of the span of time between
their writings, because God is eternal.  The same God that spoke
to Samuel in 1105 B.C., is the same one that spoke to John in
95 A.D.   Many times we need the perspective of the entire
Biblical context to grasp the significance and meaning of
a single verse, just as we would need principles of arithmetic
to understand algebra.


Sincerely,


Brian Ceccarelli
----------------
brian@gamma1.lpl.arizona.edu

     
Newsgroups: talk.religion.misc