HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: cozzlab@garnet.berkeley.edu ()
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
Subject: Re: Books I Hate to Love
Date: 30 Sep 1992 20:55:42 GMT
Organization: University of California, Berkeley
NNTP-Posting-Host: garnet.berkeley.edu

In article <BvEM73.Ln7@news.cso.uiuc.edu> levine@symcom.math.uiuc.edu (Lenore Levine) writes:
"The recent thread on linguistic SF led me to think about books
"I hate to love .....
"
"And the winner is:
"
"1) That Hideous Strength, by C.S. Lewis. (How could his Fairy 
"   Hardcastle character have anticipated Camille Paglia so well? :-) )

I never heard of Camille Paglia--but it's frightening to think Hardcastle
has a real-world counterpart.

Where Lewis _got_ Hardcastle was probably from taking the horrid old woman
he lived with most of his life and exaggerating her a bit.

.....

"3) ... Native Tongue and The Judas Rose, by Suzette Haden Elgin. 

Oh.  Is that the one where she invented her own language--and decided
that the Western subject-verb-object syntactical pattern is just too
*pushy* and *domineering* and *masculine* and invented one where
everything is in the passive voice, like Tibetan?  Thus reinforcing
the "men are active, women are passive" stereotype, of course, which
I'm sure was not her intention....

The only thing I really remember is that there's a word whose literal
translation is "holidays" and whose connotation is "horrible times when
all your relatives descend like a plague of locusts and the men hang
around and party and the women have to do lots of extra work."

(Make that "the unintelligent women have to do lots of extra work and
the intelligent women, having shed all their relatives somewhere around
graduate school, are off to the Sing-It-Yourself-Messiah.")


Dorothy J. Heydt
UC Berkeley
Disclaimer: This is the Cozzarelli Lab's account, not mine--but I don't
think anybody else ever reads it.
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
From: ins894r@aurora.cc.monash.edu.au (Aaron Wigley [Wigs])
Subject: Re: Julian may: history of the rebellion??
Organization: Monash University
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1 PL6]
Date: Thu, 1 Oct 1992 11:04:54 GMT

Rebecca Drayer (REBECCA@YaleVM.YCC.Yale.Edu) wrote:
: What I'm wondering is whether or not there will be any more books AFTER the
: Milieu trilogy.  I really want to know how Marc and Elizabeth will fare in the
: Duat Galaxy, and am curious if any books like that are in the planning stage.

I don't think so. The 'Pliocene Companion' (written by Julian May and 
is a refrence book on the Pliocene Triolgy), says she originally 
planned the Milleu Trilogy (Jack the Bodiless, Diamondmask, etc..), 
but felt she would be causing readers to jump straight into the 
Intervention and Rebellion, and would turn readers away, so she wrote the
Pliocene books as background. There was no mention of others.

I'll dig out my copy of the Pliocene companion, and transcribe exactly what
she said/wrote.

: (My personal theory is that the Family Ghost is a sort of duality of Marc's
: and Elizabeth's minds, rather like the one Felice and Culluket became in _The
: Non-Born King_.  I didn't get a chance to finish _Intervention_ yet, so I
: could be stating common knowledge.)

Possible Spoliers for those who haven't read all of Intervention, or
Jack the Bodiless:


The Family Ghost (Atoning Unifex, head Lylmik) is without a doubt Marc.
There are references in JtB where Rogi almost calls the Family Ghost Marc.
I have not seen any hints anout Elisabeth, except at the start of JtB,
where the Family Ghost says to Rogi on Denali, just before Marc/Ghost 
D-jumps Rogi back to Earth, about how he avoided Denali during the 
pre-rebellion years, as it was Elisabeth's homeworld. My bet is Elisabeth
is long dead (remember only Marc has the Immortality genes).

: Rebecca A. Drayer, EMT        |    Rebecca@Yalevm.Ycc.Yale.edu

The Wigs of Oz,
Just another Julian May fanatic,
Aaron Wigley
From: wmperry@bronze.ucs.indiana.edu (William Michael Perry)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
Subject: Brian Lumley's NecroScope Series
Date: 6 Oct 92 20:39:26 GMT
Article-I.D.: bronze.WMPERRY.92Oct6153926
Organization: Computer Science Student, Indiana University

Hello all,
   I just finished reading Brian Lumley's latest NecroScope book
(Blood Brothers) last night.  Anyone know when the next one is due
out?  Only thing I didn't like about this one were the 4 or 5
gratuitous sex scenes.
   Has anyone else out there read these books?  They deal with
vampires as parasites in human hosts (leeches) that amplify their
hosts emotions, etc.  Also about a man who can speak with the dead
(thus Necroscope) who finds out about them when a murder victim asks
him for help.
   Pretty vague plot recap, but I'm posting before I head to work :)
I'd really like to know what other people have thought of these books,
and if anyone knows when the next one will come out (Blood Brothers
says it will be called "The Last [Aeirie,Stack?]".

Thanks,
	Bill Perry
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
'Who finds a thought that enables him to obtain a slightly deeper glimpse into
 the eternal secrets of nature has been given great grace.'
    - Albert Einstein
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
From: andy@research.canon.oz.au (Andy Newman)
Subject: Re: Apology for the Hinz "Paratwa" question's
Keywords: hinz
Organization: Canon Information Systems Research Australia
Date: Wed, 30 Sep 1992 09:53:44 GMT

yshah@lucpul.it.luc.edu (Guessing) writes:
>>From: Al Billings <mimir@u.washington.edu>
>
>> Thanks for the spoiler warning, asshole. Luckily, I realized you were
>>giving away the plot of the third book (which isn't even out in paperback)
>>and cleared the screen. Learn about spoilers before you post this crap as
>>most of us haven't read the book yet.
>
>
...stuff deleted...
>And lastly Mr. Billings I had thought the book had been out for quite some
>time.  I went to the local library, why don't YOU try that?!  Would it have
>been so hard to say it nicely.
>

Its been out for a while, even in Oz (notorious for slow access to
books thanks to monopolistic publishing/copyright laws). And in
paperback. I read all three at least 9 months ago.
-- 
Andy Newman (andy@research.canon.oz.au)		"int - God's own type"
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written,rec.arts.books
From: spb0457@venus.tamu.edu (SubGenius)
Subject: Re: Science Fiction books with linguistic content
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41    
Organization: Texas A&M University, Academic Computing Services
Date: Sun, 27 Sep 1992 22:58:00 GMT

Curtis Yarvin writes...
>One would expect this, since Hoban is not a hack.  But how does
>respelling common English words help?  I can understand
>inventing new words for concepts which do not exist in present
>society, but (to pick the first word I saw, when I opened the
>book) what does spelling "kind" as "kynd" do for a novel?
>The mode of this question is curious, not rhetorical.
>c
+---------------------------------------SubG-------------------------------+
Why did Bob Heinlein use pidgin English for _The Moon Is A Harsh Mistress_?
'Cause the narrator was supposed to have been raised in an environment
where the Queen's English was not spoken.

Riddley Walker's world is supposed to be a by-product of the Powers That
Be giving the world that we know the big firework.

Given that most r.a.b.bers can't function flawlessly in the construction of
sentences or rendering of spellings with (one would guess) many years of
formal education geared toward that end, it would be a bit of a stretch
to expect a hunter/gatherer to manage said feat(s).






Yours etc.,




SubGenius
Xref: sparky rec.arts.sf.written:13063 sci.lang:7361
From: edgar@function.mps.ohio-state.edu (Gerald Edgar)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written,sci.lang
Subject: Hoban(was: linguistic content)
Date: 27 Sep 92 06:40:03 GMT
Article-I.D.: function.1a4h43INN4aj
Organization: The Ohio State University, Dept. of Math.
NNTP-Posting-Host: function.mps.ohio-state.edu


* The only other Hoban I've read is _Pilgermann_

Hoban wrote _Turtle Diary_ which was made into a movie recently.

He has also written children's books, such as _The Mouse and His Child_.
-- 
  Gerald A. Edgar                Internet:  edgar@mps.ohio-state.edu
  Department of Mathematics      Bitnet:    EDGAR@OHSTPY
  The Ohio State University      telephone: 614-292-0395 (Office)
  Columbus, OH 43210             -292-4975 (Math. Dept.) -292-1479 (Dept. Fax)
From: jmann@vineland.pubs.stratus.com (Jim Mann)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
Subject: Re: Dewey Decimal for some authors
Date: 2 Oct 92 17:40:01 GMT
Reply-To: jmann@vineland.pubs.stratus.com

In article <1992Oct2.155628.21009@cs.cornell.edu>  
moudgill@cs.cornell.edu ( Mayan Moudgill) writes:
> Here are the dewey decimal numbers for some authors.
> (I've got a list of about 150 authors. These are the authors in the
> first quarter of the list which our library has).
> 
> Alan	_	Garner		PZ7.G236,PZ8.1.G23,PR6057.A736
> Andre	_	Norton		PZ7.N87,PS3527.O778
> Bruce	_	Sterling	PS3557.I14
> C.	J.	Cherryh		PS3553.H565
> Chris	_	Bunch		PS3552.U54
> Cordwainer	_	Smith	PS3523.I42	Paul M.A. Linebarger
> David	_	Brin		PS3552.R57
> Frederick	_	Pohl	PS3566.O37
> Fritz	_	Leiber		PS3523.E33
> Gene	_	Wolfe		PS3573.O448
> Harlan	_	Ellison		PS3555.L795,PS3555.L782
> 

Those don't look like Dewey Decimal numbers, which sometimes
end with letters but never begin with them.  Are they
perhaps Library of Congress numbers? (I don't now Library of
Congress near as well as I know Dewey Decimal, since I grew up
with the latter, and my local library still uses it.)



--
Jim Mann            
Stratus Computer   jmann@vineland.pubs.stratus.com
From: cg01@RULHP1.LEIDENUNIV.NL
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
Subject: Zelazny/Wurts
Date: 1 Oct 92 12:24:22 GMT

Hi,
Can somebody please tell me if Roger Zelazny has written a sequel to
Changeling and Madwand ? The dutch translation I have claims on the
cover of Changeling that it is a trilogy ! But I have never seen a sequel
to Madwand...

My second question:
If I know about the following books by Janny Wurts:
Stormwarden
Keeper of the keys
Shadowfane
Sorcerers Legacy
Master of Whitestorm
+ 3 Empire novels in co-authorship with Raymond E. Feist,
then can somebody tell me if I have missed some ?

Regards,
Simon

PS. You can't mail me directly, because this account is public, so anybody
    in this universe can read, but more to the point, delete any mail you
    send...
From: ott@ansoft.com (nancy ott)
Subject: Cherryh's female characters
Keywords: Cherryh, women
Organization: Ansoft Corp. Pittsburgh
Date: Tue, 29 Sep 1992 17:05:26 GMT



C.J. Cherryh's women are products of their environment.  In the
Union/Alliance universe, being vulnerable and feminine do not seem to
be survival positive qualities.  You're tough, or you're dead.  

Given that, it's not suprising that most of Cherryh's female
characters are strong and competant.  They are survivors.  However,
they are not all "superwomen" or "ice queens" by any means.  For
instance, Elizabeth Magee in 40,000 in Gehenna is hardly a superwomen
-- she bungles the first contact with the group of Gehennans she's
assigned to study.  Other characters like Altair Jones in Merovingen
Nights or Meg Kady and Sal Aboujib in Heavy Time are basically working
women trying to get by in hostile situations.  

Strong and unemotional female characters like Signy Mallory or
Morgaine are usually in a line of business -- such as Fleet Captain or
professional Gate destroyer -- which would tend to make a person
emotionally numb.  How else could you survive, knowing that your
actions caused the deaths of hundreds (or in Morgaine's case,
thousands) of innocent people?  Cherryh is also not afraid to make her
female characters nasty -- Mallory also being a good example of this.
Perhaps this is what disturbs people about them.


- nancy





Xref: sparky rec.arts.sf.written:13034 sci.lang:7346
From: edgar@function.mps.ohio-state.edu (Gerald Edgar)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written,sci.lang
Subject: Re: Science Fiction books with linguistic content
Date: 26 Sep 1992 10:07:09 -0400
Organization: The Ohio State University, Dept. of Math.
NNTP-Posting-Host: function.mps.ohio-state.edu


One of my favorites is _Riddley Walker_, by Russel Hoban.
The whole thing is in the narrator's own dialect, which is a future
form of English.  It requires concentration to read, but I think
it is well worth the effort.
-- 
  Gerald A. Edgar                Internet:  edgar@mps.ohio-state.edu
  Department of Mathematics      Bitnet:    EDGAR@OHSTPY
  The Ohio State University      telephone: 614-292-0395 (Office)
  Columbus, OH 43210             -292-4975 (Math. Dept.) -292-1479 (Dept. Fax)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
From: pciszek@nyx.cs.du.edu (Paul Ciszek)
Subject: Re: Musical SF and F
Organization: University of Denver, Dept. of Math & Comp. Sci.
Date: Sat, 3 Oct 92 01:21:01 GMT


Anderson's "The Queen of Air and Darkness" and "Goat Song" ought to be on
everyone's reading list, plug plug.

Would Heinlein's "The Green Hills of Earth" qualify as "musical SF"?

--
Paul Ciszek, pciszek@nyx.cs.du.edu | No nation was ever drunk when wine was
                                   | cheap.   -- Thomas Jefferson
From: apash@mta.ca
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
Subject: Re: Robert Jordan's "Shadow Rising"
Date: 28 Sep 92 18:31:43 GMT
Reply-To: apash@mta.ca
Organization: Mount Allison U, Sackville, N.B. Canada

In article <6386@blue.cis.pitt.edu.UUCP>, amigaman+@pitt.edu (Russell A Howard) writes:
>
>  I just picked up the fourth book in Robert Jordan's Wheel of Time series
>entitled "The Shadow Rising".  It costs $24.95 and I picked it up at my local 
>Waldenbooks store.  Just thought I'd let everyone know that this book is out.
>

   THANK YOU THANK YOU THANK YOU!!!!!
                             A.PASH
From: Jonathan.Deitch@p7.f411.n133.z1.FIDONET.ORG (Jonathan Deitch)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
Subject: annoyed at Gerrold (was Re: Chtorr & Gerrold.)
Date: 2 Oct 92 02:42:37 GMT
Organization: FidoNet node 1:133/411.7 - (GIS)Atlanta, Atlanta GA


 * Original from UUCP at sdr57@cas.org

Dateline Mon, 28/Sep92 17:14.
In , UUCP of sdr57@cas.org wrote to All at 1:4549/7,

 > In article <eBusRB1w165w@pain.la.ca.us> d_moran@pain.la.ca.us (Daniel Keys 
 > Moran) writes:
>>  The fourth Chtorr book is "A Season for Slaughter," as somebody
>>mentioned recently. I had the opportunity to read it in manuscript, and
>>it's *very* damn good. Surely one of the few really interesting series
>>going on in SF right now. (That I'm reading, anyway.)

 > Was anyone else who bought the first two books when they first came
 > out bothered by the vanishing act followed by the *revised* return
 > of the series? Just curious.

It's nowhere near as annoying as the mythical third and fourth book of
the Door series by Diane Duane ... supposedly the third book is supposed
to come out this spring several (many) years late ...

Isn't it annoying when authors (and publishers) do this ?

- Jonathan



--  
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(________)  (_/(_|(____/ (jm)   (GIS) Atlanta            

UUCP: gatech!warlord!gisatl!411.7!Jonathan.Deitch
INTERNET: Jonathan.Deitch@p7.f411.n133.z1.FIDONET.ORG
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
From: dani@netcom.com (Dani Zweig)
Subject: Time and the New Sun
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services  (408 241-9760 guest) 
Date: Wed, 7 Oct 1992 03:08:00 GMT

It's harder than it seems at first glance to decide on the time scale
of Gene Wolfe's "New Sun" books.  Most of the changes that suggest
millions of years -- resource depletion, evolution of new species,
even the extinguishing of Earth's fires -- could have been achieved
in far less time through technological intervention.

Trying a simpler question, as a means of getting a handle on the
harder one, how much time passed between Ymar's day and Severian's?
The clues conflict.  Ymar lived in the first days of the dying of
the sun, in the last days of Earth's diastrophism, and in the last
days of Earth's interstellar empire.  (It may have even been in
his day that the Autarchy lost most of Earth outside South America.)
On the other hand, he lived in a world little different from
Severian's, where even the small villages were the same.  We also
note that it was reasonable to expect a coin from Ymar's time to
survive -- badly corroded -- in Severian's:  There is reason to suspect
that common words such as 'copper', 'stone', 'wood', often refer to
far more durable materials than we associate with them.

-----
Dani Zweig
dani@netcom.com

  The surface of the strange, forbidden planet was roughly textured and green,
  much like cottage cheese gets way after the date on the lid says it is all 
  right to buy it.--Scott Jones
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
From: lgs57@cas.org ()
Subject: The Watcher's Mask-Laurie J. Marks (spoilers)
Organization: Chemical Abstracts Service, Columbus, Ohio
Date: Thu, 1 Oct 1992 12:52:04 GMT


I loved the premise of this book.  The main character has two
personalities-Alasil, the passionate executioner and Jamil, the
emotionless tool of the Emperor.  A third personality is emerging.  As a
result, Jamil doesn't remember what she has done.  The conclusion is
suspenseful and exciting as the three personalities merge and confront the
Emperor.

I thought the scene where Jamil-Alasil find the bodies of the children was
gruesome and effective.  I disliked the last few pages.  I thought Jamil
should return to the Asakeiri.  I also disliked the sections for the travel
from the Asakeiri to the Emperor.  I don't see how they moved the plot along.

Did anyone one else read this book?  What did you think?  Have you read any of
her other books?
From: James_Williams@ess.niaid.pc.niaid.nih.GOV (James Williams)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
Subject: Piers Anthony: Tantham Mound
Date: 30 Sep 92 20:45:20 GMT

In one of his earlier books, Piers Anthony says that Tantham Mound is 
his first serious novel in years.  Now that its out in paperback, I was 
thinking about giving it a try.  Has anyone read it and if so, is it 
worth bothering with?

--------------------------------------------
| James Williams                           |
| Bitnet: JWW%ESS%NIAID@NIH3PLUS.BITNET    |
| Internet: JWW@ESS.NIAID.PC.NIAID.NIH.GOV |
| CompuServ: 70304,2462                    |
--------------------------------------------
From: ARL00SJB@UNCCVM.UNCC.EDU
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
Subject: Re: Robert Jordan's "Shadow Rising"
Date: 29 Sep 92 15:24:48 GMT
Organization: UNC Charlotte

Didn't I hear/read that there would be 7 books total in this series?
 
--Jean
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
From: dchhabra@stpl.ists.ca (Deepak CHHABRA)
Subject: Re: The Dragon Reborn / Did Jordan mess up?
Reply-To: dchhabra@stpl.UUCP (Deepak CHHABRA)
Organization: Institute for Space and Terrestrial Science
Distribution: na
Date: Mon, 5 Oct 92 19:55:22 GMT

In article <1992Oct01.205757.16833@brtph560.bnr.ca> cboeker@bnr.ca writes:

>|> >all the "details" as some put it....there simply just too much of it.  I got
>|> >tired of "Rand does better with girls..." constantly throughout the book.
>|> 
>|> I thought this thread was hilarious.
>|> 
>
>Did you notice that each of the three boys (Mat, Perrin and Rand) though
>  that the other two were better with girls?  Although it was a bit
>  repetitious I found it amusing (and will admit it took me a while to
>  catch on )

I noticed it fairly early on, so I never really considered it repetitive. But
it was definitely funny.

Regarding Jordan's mess-up: in Chapter 52 (In Search of a Remedy), Mat takes
Thom to Mother Guenna to heal his cough.  He identifies himself as Mat Cauthon.
No problem here.  However, when he asks about Nynaeve, Egwene, and Elayne, she
responds "...You are too late, **Matrim** Cauthon..."  Yet nobody ever said his
full name was Matrim.  Three times after that, she calls him Mat Cauthon.

Did anybody else notice this?  And if not, does anyone else think it's an
outright mistake?  I'm discounting the possibility that Mother Guenna is more
than she seems to be.  It wouldn't make a great deal of sense if she were, and 
I don't think it's realistic to expect that Mat himself wouldn't have noticed
her knowledge of his full name.  It's perhaps possible that Mat is a known
short form for Matrim, but I don't buy that theory either.  Any thoughts?

dchhabra@stpl.ists.ca
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
From: hunt@oils.ozy.dec.com (Peter Hunt)
Subject: Eddings : Domes of Fire.
Reply-To: hunt@oils.ozy.dec.com (Peter Hunt)
Organization: Digital Equipment Corporation
Date: Mon, 5 Oct 1992 00:24:38 GMT


	I saw numerous copies of a new David Eddings book, _Domes of Fire_
, in a bookshop last week. It's the first in a new series (a trilogy,
apparently) called the Tamuli. It's a sequel series to the Elenium, and
basically, from flicking through it, it's more of the same. A repeat plot,
with one-dimensional characters acting in predictable ways.

--
+---------------------------+------------------------------------------------+
| Peter Hunt                | I'm digging in the dirt,                       |
| Networks and Comms (Aust) | to find the places I got hurt,                 |
| Digital Equipment Corp.   | to open up the places I got hurt.              |
+---------------------------+--------- Peter Gabriel, "Digging in the Dirt" -+
From: shrum@hpfcso.FC.HP.COM (Ken Shrum)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
Subject: Re: _Chanur's Legacy_ ... reviews?
Date: 25 Sep 92 18:49:03 GMT
Organization: Hewlett-Packard, Fort Collins, CO, USA

In rec.arts.sf.written, emma@Csli.Stanford.EDU (Emma Pease) writes:

> I'm still puzzled about
> why Hilfy was wearing black in the opening chapter (I thought only
> immunes wore black).   

The way I see it, Chanur is now an Immune clan, since Pyanfar is the
Personage for hani.

    Ken Shrum
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
From: lairdb@crash.cts.com (Laird P. Broadfield)
Subject: Re: Pournelle isn't PC, minor Man-Kzin Wars V spoiler
Date: 30 Sep 92 19:29:47 GMT

>In article <6357@blue.cis.pitt.edu.UUCP> seawasp@vm2.cis.pitt.edu (Sea Wasp) writes:
>>In article <1992Sep27.150837.25375@unixland.natick.ma.us> eclipse@unixland.natick.ma.us (Mark Urbin) writes:
>>>   If you want to find out where Pournelle picked up his style and subject
>>>for writing, read H. Beam Piper.  Pournelle writes fairly decent military
>>>based
>>	Er, depends on WHICH HBP, eh? I don't think Pournelle's style
>>and subject were derived from _Little Fuzzy_...

[I *think* I got the attributions right....]

Errrrm, I'm not sure I'd dismiss LF that quickly.  Indeed, some of 
Piper's other stuff is on the surface more obviously related to
Pournelle's military-SF, although my example would have been _Lord
Kalvan of Otherwhen_, but while LF (and it's sequels) are primarily
fun stories about small cute sapients, there are clearly *very* strong
themes of personal responsibility, government by the consent of the
governed, and strict limits on the power of government.

I would submit that all of these are fundamental characteristics also
of the societies that are *positively* portrayed in Pournelle (e.g
Falkenberg's Legion, Sparta.)

Style and subject, perhaps not.  Fundamental outlook, definitely.

-- 
Laird P. Broadfield     lairdb@crash.cts.com    ...{ucsd, nosc}!crash!lairdb
Hi!  I'm a shareware signature!  Send $5 if you use me, send $10 for manual!
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written