HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: linnan@sandman.cs.hut.fi (Matti Linnanvuori)
Subject: Re: Ethnic violence in ESTONIA Against Jews
Organization: Helsinki University of Technology, CS lab
Date: Tue, 13 Oct 1992 09:30:58 GMT

In <Bw0MzE.B3y@apollo.hp.com> goykhman_a@apollo.hp.com (Alex Goykhman) writes:
>    Must be an industrious man, as he managed to desecrate 80 graves.
>    Is this the same guy who kept publishing anti-Semitic articles
>    in the mainstream Estonian press and came up with the idea of
>    celebrating the 50th anniversary of the 20th division of the SS?

  In 1944 the Germans were leaving Estonia, and the Waffen-SS troops
consisting of Estonians were the only way the Estonians could defend
their country from the Soviet invaders. It is very easy to use the
decision of those desperate Estonians to promote your anti-Estonian
rage. These SS troops did not kill any Jews, partly because the
Germans had already killed most of Jews living in Estonia.


Newsgroups: talk.politics.soviet,soc.culture.jewish
From: pces1182@altair.selu.edu
Newsgroups: talk.politics.soviet
Subject: <None>
Date: 13 Oct 92 21:45:38 -0600
Organization: Southeastern Louisiana University




From: thietaniemi@cc.helsinki.fi
Newsgroups: talk.politics.soviet
Subject: Re: Furstenberg and other things (Was: Human
Date: 7 Oct 92 09:55:20 GMT
Organization: University of Helsinki

In article <1992Oct7.065846.11089@newshost.anu.edu.au>, 
dam@coombs.anu.edu.au (david mardiste) writes:
> In article <1araklINNj85@uniwa.uwa.edu.au> INFIDEL,
> wojdylo@maths.uwa.oz.au writes:
>>Why on earth should any supporters of the Estonian citizenship laws 
>>learn about Estonian's dubious recent history on matters of ethnic
>>relations ?
> 
> From a political science perspective and from policy analysis it is very
> easy to understand why the previous Estonian government adopted the
> citizenship laws they did. 
> However, it is misleading to imply that those who supported the policy
> decisions on citizenship laws wish to condone the operations of the
> groups you mentioned. 

You are right, it is misleading indeed. It is irritating when not insulting 
to ask us to "explain" or "legitimize" any atrocities that some fascist groups
have done! And this is being done solely because of my race and nationality 
and my support for the people's front in Estonia!

Personally, I was brought up in the ranks of workers' movement with living 
anti-fascistic traditions in outskirts of Helsinki city. My emotional 
involvement with Estonian independence struggle dates back to the very same 
feelings as my involvement in the movement against the war in Vietnam in the 
70ies: A great imperialist power had committed a major injustice that should 
be rectified.

> Obviously, this issue is important to you or why waste the band width and
> the time.However, I would like to know more about the groups that you
> mentioned -- 
> David Mardiste

As a lesson from history, studying the activities of the fascist groups 
everywhere in the world is of great importance. If anyone has new data on 
the history of Estonian militant right wing radicalism, I would also be 
interested in it.

>>JW


Sincerely,
Tapani Hietaniemi, University of Helsinki
Xref: sparky talk.politics.soviet:8443 soc.culture.jewish:17638
From: f33012l@puukko.hut.fi (Janne Kivel{)
Subject: Re: Ethnic violence in ESTONIA Against Jews
Reply-To: f33012l@puukko.hut.fi (Janne Kivel{)
Organization: Helsinki University of Technology, Finland
Date: Thu, 15 Oct 1992 09:35:03 GMT

viznyuk@ohstpy.mps.ohio-state.edu writes:

>to be more precise - most Jews in Estonia were killed
>not by Germans, but Estonian volunteers from SS

Just because Sergey Vizhnyuk says so doesn't mean that this sentence
has any base in reality. And even if this claim were true, would it
have any relevance today? Serega, what do you think was the fate
of the Estonian SS men after the war in the hands of the Soviets?
Do you believe they led their lives happily everafter?

>S.V.

Janne Kivela"
      "N{m{kin pusakat vain viisysiysi. Ja kaikista valtakunnan..."
                     ----- Simo vaatehuoneelta
From: wiener@duke.cs.duke.edu (Edward Wiener)
Newsgroups: talk.politics.soviet
Subject: Re: Kuwaiti Estonia ?
Date: 7 Oct 92 20:17:15 GMT
Organization: Duke University Computer Science Dept.; Durham, N.C.


Jarmo writes:

>Serega is againg making his propaganda. This "40 %" consists
>for instance all the children under 18 years of age and they can
>not vote anywhere. I do not beleieve that even in Russian the
>children cannot vote. To compare Kuwait and Saudi-Arabia with
>Estonia is more joking I would like to add.
>jarmo


      You're in over your head, esteemed Jarmo.  Since ethnic
      Estonian children also are not allowed to vote and unless
      the Estonian birth rate is much, much lower than that
      of Russian-speakers (which is not the case), then this
      figure of 40% not having been allowed to vote is fairly
      accurate.

-- Eduard Wiener
Newsgroups: talk.politics.soviet
From: smir+@CS.CMU.EDU (Yury Smirnov)
Subject: Re: Yeltsin: sorry that I might saved him.
Organization: Carnegie Mellon University
Date: Fri, 9 Oct 1992 22:04:38 GMT

In article <2586@cronos.metaphor.com>, covdy@cronos.metaphor.com (Ivan Covdy) writes:
|> 
|> I made a T-shirt with huge "LIGACHEV?" on the back and
|> "YELTSIN - YES!" on the chest. I put the T-shirt on, and walked
|> down the cetral streets and places in Moscow, including the Arbat,
|> Gorky Stree, the Red Square and GUM. Probably, it was the very first
|> open "public" support of Yeltsin. I don't think that it became known
|> to Yeltsin, but who knows? Probably, it's just a coincidence that soon
|> after that, Yeltsin got on track of recovering and returning to life,
|> including his political re-incarnation...
|> 
|> Sorry, Russian foks! Sorry, that I did it!
|> 
|>   Ivan Covdy, covdy@shemesh.metaphor.com, METAPHOR Inc.,  CA,  USA
 
    It is easy to confess of your sin being employed in California.
    How long did you endue the consiquences of your action ?
    Probably, all present Russian troubles appeared due to your undertaking.
    Did you have the current rate of 370 rbl. to $1 somewhere on your t-shirt?
    
    Yury @ Cranberry Melon university, School of Cucumber Sciences
From: goykhman_a@apollo.hp.com (Alex Goykhman)
Newsgroups: talk.politics.soviet
Subject: Re: CAU$E$ OF WAR$
Date: 12 Oct 92 17:19:46 GMT
Organization: Hewlett-Packard Company, Chelmsford, MA

In article <01GPR2C3KS5K002WEO@cnsvax.uwec.edu> "talk.politics.soviet via ListServ" <TPS-L@indycms.iupui.edu> writes:
...
>               Since early 1979, there has been a secret intelligence
>          war of DOUBLES, [WR, 5-10-79 and following issues], in the
>          United States, Russia, the Middle East, and elsewhere, making
                                                                  ^^^^^^
>          it difficult to tell WHO (including Saddam Hussein?!) is
           ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>          REAL.
           ^^^^ 
...

    It's OK, just keep taking your medications.


-- 
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Disclaimer: all opinions are mine.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Newsgroups: talk.politics.soviet
From:  tiv@gov.chel.su (Tambo\Ctsev Ilya)
Subject: Welcom into the Chelyabinsk / Ural / Rassia
Reply-To: tiv@gov.chel.su
Organization: Region Government
Date: Tue, 13 Oct 92 20:53:48 +0500


   Among East and West, on limit of Europe and Asia you'll see a beautiful
        world, the world of wonder things, people and nature.

                      WELCOM into the Russia !!!
                   WELCOM into the Ural !!!
              WELCOM into the Chelyabinsk!!!

 The Ural is most extensive and industrial part of exSovietUnion.
 Now it is most mobile part of growing Russian economics.

  Here is two offers from touring and hunting firm.
-----------------
 The "Diana - Tour" is a special firm in area of international hunting and
 fishing touring in Chelyabinsk region. We do hunting and fishin tours in
 traditional Russian style and especially for foreign tourist, hunters and
 fishers. The hunting tours are allowed and provided by Department of
 Hunting Industry with quality staff.
-----------------
 The "Victoriya" is a touring agancy  which realize a visits of foreign
 groups of tourists or businessmans to rest and to set a business meeting,
 conference, here in Chelyabinsk and Ural region. You can discover not only
 new people , you can build a areas of new market youself!
-----------------

  *** For more informations about service, transportation, prices
 for an individual tours or a groups of tours ,please call to E-mail address:

              tiv@gov.chel.su    OR   ilya@chel.su

   We also have an interest for business contact with Tour companies!

  If you have another interest in our region, please write to me, you message
  will be saved in Base of offers, and we try to find you want.
  In any case we inform you about it.

  Happy for you!

   Ilya Tambovtsev. ( Information Service)
From: thietaniemi@cc.helsinki.fi
Newsgroups: talk.politics.soviet
Subject: Re: SOME ASPECTS OF THE LAW FOR CITIZENSHIP OF ESTONIA
Date: 8 Oct 92 11:55:29 GMT
Organization: University of Helsinki

In article <1b0mreINNo8i@uniwa.uwa.edu.au>, wojdylo@maths.uwa.oz.au
(INFIDEL) writes:>
> It's obviously hard for the nationalists  to cope with the fact that
Estonia's
> citizenship law denying UNCONDITIONAL citizenship to anyone born on the
> territory is intrinsically unjust; and in the climate of present-day
> Central and Eastern Europe, patently insane.

I am not always sure who is behaving insane and spreading national hatred....

Anyhow, I DO think that the Estonian government should consider giving
the right to acquire citizenship to anyone born in Estonia (with, perhaps,
some recidency requirement but without any language requirement).

But this should not be unconditional. The citizenship should not be given
to anyone against his/her will.

And Estonia requires and should require the citizen's oath as
an expression of this free will. It should not be more complicated than
a civil marriage. But neither easier than that.

with the best regards

Tapani Hietaniemi, University of Helsinki
From: abayer1@cc.swarthmore.edu (A. Penikis)
Newsgroups: talk.politics.soviet
Subject: Ethnicity in Estonia and Lithuania
Date: 14 Oct 92 20:35:50 GMT
Organization: Swarthmore College

Does anyone have, or know where I might find, 1989 Soviet census data on
Estonia and Lithuania by cities and raioni?  I have not had any luck in
tracking down such detailed
data.
From: muh@physics.Berkeley.EDU (Yury M. Mukharsky)
Newsgroups: talk.politics.soviet
Subject: Re: Kuwaiti Estonia ?
Date: 8 Oct 1992 17:54:50 GMT
Organization: University of California, Berkeley
NNTP-Posting-Host: physics.berkeley.edu

In article <1992Oct8.085733.23273@jyu.fi> ryyti@jyu.fi (Jarmo Ryyti) writes:
>Of these 600 000 non-estonians c. 100 000 got 
>the citizenship 
>There were c. 151 000 adults of non-estonian orgin
>There were over 600 000 persons who had a right to vote.
> 
>There are c. 1 600 000 persons living in Estonia.
>aroximately 1,1 mill have got the citizenship.

Moral: this non-citizens are fertile like rabbits! Just imagine:

of 500,000 non-citizens 349,000 are children under 21.

Just compare with citezens: of 1.1 millions only 500,000 children.

Sort of too much, too. Maybe some of them are convicted criminals or
nuts.

Yury
From: lb@cs.man.ac.uk (Luben Boyanov)
Newsgroups: talk.politics.soviet
Subject: Re: CAU$E$ OF WAR$
Date: 11 Oct 92 18:31:42 GMT
Organization: Dept Computer Science, University of Manchester, U.K.

In article <15261801140.ns@sandes.cri.dk> ns@sandes.cri.dk (Nick Sandru [long hair]) writes:

[deleted :-))) ]

>More precisely the analysts were surprised to see these predictions
>scribbled in the restroom of the Banana City trolley station in
>the TV series 'Stinktrek - the Lousy Generation'.

Reading this I also couldn't resist remembering few lines from "Examining
Psychic Phenomena" (author - Woody Allen - 'Without Feathers').

"			Prognostication

Finally, we come to Aristonidis, the sixteenth-century count whose
predictions continue to dazzle and perplex even the most skeptical. Typical
examples are:
	'Two nations will go to war, but only one will win.'
	(Experts feel this probabl refers to the Russo-Japanese War of
1904-05 - an astonishing feat of prognostication, considering the fact that
it was made in 1540.)
	'A man in Istanbul will have his hat blocked, and it will be
ruined.'
	(In 1860, Abu Hamid, Ottoman warrior, sent his cap out to be
cleaned, and it came back with spots.)
	'I see a great person, who one day will invent for mankind a
garment to be worn over his trousers for protection while cooking. It will
be called an 'abron' or 'aprone.' '
	( Aristonidis meant the apron, of course.)
	'A leader will emerge in France. he will be very short and will
cause great calamity.'
	(This is a reference either to Napoleon or to Marcel Lumet, an
eighteenth-century midget who instigated a plot to rub bearnaise sauce on
Voltaire.)
	'In the New World, there will be a place named California, and a
man named Joseph Cotten will become famous.'
	(No explanation necessary.)"



>Sorry, I couldn't resist.

Me too

>Long Haired Nick

Short Haired Luben :-)
Newsgroups: talk.politics.soviet,soc.culture.jewish
From: ryyti@jyu.fi (Jarmo Ryyti)
Subject: Re: Ethnic violence in ESTONIA Against Jews
Organization: University of Jyvaskyla, Finland
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1 PL6]
Date: Thu, 15 Oct 1992 08:37:23 GMT

david mardiste (dam@coombs.anu.edu.au) wrote:
: >In article <1992Oct11.012931.9174@morrow.stanford.edu>
: sandor@sep.Stanford.EDU 
: >(Sandor Talas) writes:
: >>In article <Bvt9yr.2IC@apollo.hp.com>, goykhman_a@apollo.hp.com (Alex
: Goykhman) writes:
: 
: 
: 
: >    Must be an industrious man, as he managed to desecrate 80 graves.
: >    Is this the same guy who kept publishing anti-Semitic articles
: >    in the mainstream Estonian press and came up with the idea of
: >    celebrating the 50th anniversary of the 20th division of the SS?
: 
Yeah, really, can you give the names of the newspapapers you call estonian
mainstream press. To the library of our university comes:
Tarto
: Does anyone know for SURE if the  re-union was for the SS Division or for
: those who served in the German army? And can they tell us the details.
: 
: Does anyone know for SURE if the  re-union was for the SS Division or for
: those who served in the German army? And can they tell us the details.
: Tartu Postmees and to the city library Rahva H{{l. They are supposed
to be number ones in Estonia and I have not noticed anything you
write here. So, please give some information and not only general
accusations towards Estonia. 
jarmo ryyti


: 
: 
: Can you you give me some details on these articles in the mainstream
: press that 
: are anti-Semitic and I will follow them up. 
: 
: This is the first time i've heard of the such things been published in
: the major papers so send the details on!
: 
: 
: 
: david mardiste

Xref: sparky talk.politics.soviet:8424 soc.culture.jewish:17555
From: silber@orfeo.Eng.Sun.COM (Eric Silber)
Newsgroups: talk.politics.soviet,soc.culture.jewish
Subject: Re: Ethnic violence in ESTONIA Against Jews
Date: 13 Oct 1992 18:04:26 GMT
Organization: Sun Microsystems, Mt. View, Ca.
NNTP-Posting-Host: orfeo

In article <1992Oct13.093058.12192@cs.hut.fi> linnan@sandman.cs.hut.fi (Matti Linnanvuori) writes:
>
>  In 1944 the Germans were leaving Estonia, and the Waffen-SS troops
>consisting of Estonians were the only way the Estonians could defend
>their country from the Soviet invaders. It is very easy to use the
>decision of those desperate Estonians to promote your anti-Estonian
>rage. These SS troops did not kill any Jews, partly because the
>Germans had already killed most of Jews living in Estonia.
>
You miss entirely the point, pal! Were not all ss-troops volunteers? 
The very idea that any Estonian, or Frenchman, or Belgian etc. was in
the ss is an indiccation of their pre-existing racist tendancy!
COLLABORATION with the nazis is not the same as suffering their occupation
or the consequences of theri occupation !!!!!!
!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
!!!!!!
There is no sympathy to be lost on any damn collaborator wihth the nazis!



Newsgroups: talk.politics.soviet
From: trh@jack.sns.com (Al Trh)
Subject: Re: Drinking kumys (Was: Enigmatic double
Organization: Systems'n'Software
Date: Tue, 13 Oct 92 04:24:41 GMT

In article <9210112252.AA03632@feds66.Prime.COM> "talk.politics.soviet via ListServ" <TPS-L@indycms.iupui.edu> writes:
>> Date:         Tue, 6 Oct 1992 11:26:34 GMT
>> From: thietaniemi@CC.HELSINKI.FI
>>
>> In article <9210030109.AA24145@feds66.Prime.COM>,
>> dleschin@FEDS66.PRIME.COM ("", Dmitri Leschiner) writes:
>> >
>> > Oh, well, why?? Did you try kumys? You don't like it?
>> > It's unusual, I agree; might be for Finns even more,
>> > but is it so vomit-causing indeed?
>>
>> I have never had a possibility to try it. What is it like? It is not
>> like sour milk with some vodka in it, I suppose... Is it like
>> the Mexican pulque?
>>
>
>I've never tried a Mexican pulque... :-) I guess though it doesn't
>resemble kumys. Kumys _is in fact very much like sour milk with some
>(little) quantity of spirit and also a lot of dissolved gas in it:
>the product of sour milk overfermentation. Sorry that I couldn't
>describe it better. I recommend a trip to Baskortostan (never been
>there myself:) - it must be relatively cheap now for Finns (much
>more expensive for Americans:), and there must still be excellent
>kumys-producing facilities. I'd really like to visit there myself
>pretty much, but I doubt I'll do that soon...
>
>Dmitry
Another place you can find kimiz (this spelling is closer to the
way the word is pronounced in many Turkic dialects) is Turkey. An Ozbek
has been producing it in his farm near Izmir, and seeling it at a
premium in Turkey for a while...

AT
From: smir+@CS.CMU.EDU (Yury Smirnov)
Subject: Re: Ethnic violence in ESTONIA (Was: Fursten
Organization: Carnegie Mellon University
Date: Fri, 9 Oct 1992 18:52:45 GMT

In article <1992Oct9.085231.5568@jyu.fi>, ryyti@jyu.fi (Jarmo Ryyti) writes:
|> thietaniemi@cc.helsinki.fi writes:
|> 
|> Estonia and for instance Karelia is an ethnic heaven
|>  for the russians/ukrainians/belarussians
|> compared with Tadzikistan,Uzbekistan,Azerbeidzhan,Georgia, Chechen-
|> Inguschia,Abhazia etc. you name them. The Russian Army will have
|> the hands full of work and busy to save the lives of Russians
|> in those areas during coming years.
|> 
|> I just wonder if the Russian Army will have an all front war along
|> its boundaries which are tens of thousands of kilometres long.
|> I also wonder if the young russian men really want spent their 
|> younghood by fighthing in a war everywhere like their fathers and
|> grand-fathers did. The Russian Army in order to hold his position of
|> course will see it very important to protect the russians but at the
|> same time the army will protect his own postion in the society.
|> The wisest thing what Yeltsin and the Moscowites would do is to
|> keep hands off Estonia,Latvia and Lithuania and not to provoce problems
|> over there, because I think they have already enough of them.
|> And of those problems you rally cannot blame the Balts and Estonians.
|> Jarmo  
|> SUOMI
 
   If you wish to tell by this article that Balts and Estonians are
   higher civilized and less bloody combats supporters in average
   than Middle Asians or Caucsians, I'd rather agree with you.
   Probably, you were going to say something else ?

   Yury @ Cranberry Melon University, School of Cucumber Sciences
From: FZC@nihcu.bitnet (Message Center)
Newsgroups: talk.politics.soviet
Subject: (none)
Date: 10 Oct 92 00:07:45 GMT
Reply-To: "talk.politics.soviet via ListServ" <TPS-L@indycms.iupui.edu>

Date:     Fri Oct 09, 1992  4:27 pm  EST
From:     J. Biggerstaff 615-574-4754
          EMS: INTERNET / MCI ID: 376-5414
          MBX: JBR@stc10.ctd.ornl.gov

TO:     * Tansin A. Darcos & Company / MCI ID: 506-6432
Subject:  RE: Metric system

Paul:
 Fidonet bounced me -- probably just too complicated for me to type!
 Anyhow, YOU asked, so YOU can try to get the info to your friend.

Per IEEE Std 268-1975, going UP for one in powers of 10**3 [NOT 1024]:

  kilo, mega, giga, tera, peta, exa  (10**18) with Symbols --
   k     M     G     T     P     E     (only "k" is lower case)

Going DOWN likewise:

  milli, micro, nano, pico, femto, atto (10**-18)
    m     [mu]   n     p     f      a    (all lower case -- [mu] is the
                                          Greek letter)

  deka (10), hecto (100), deci (0.1), and centi (0.01) "should be avoided"
   da          h           d                c
Newsgroups: talk.politics.soviet,soc.culture.jewish
From: ryyti@jyu.fi (Jarmo Ryyti)
Subject: Re: Ethnic violence in ESTONIA Against Jews
Organization: University of Jyvaskyla, Finland
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1 PL6]
Date: Thu, 15 Oct 1992 14:29:09 GMT

Oleg Vishnepolsky (oleg@watson.ibm.com) wrote:
: In  <1992Oct15.093022.8989@cs.hut.fi>  f33012l@puukko.hut.fi (Janne Kivel{) writes:
: >oleg@watson.ibm.com (Oleg Vishnepolsky) writes:
: >>Is it not this sickening that no one on the net from the Baltic
: >>region said anything to the effect that he/she is ashamed of these
: >>Estonian actions ? Prove you are not fascists - say 'down with
: >>fascism, down with Estonian neo-Nazis'.
: >
: >Do you want people to officially deny that they are not Nazis? Should we
: >all repeat in choir that 'Nazism is bad'? Why don't all the Russians
: >in the net say 'down with Pamyat, down with Russian ultra-nationalism'?
: 
: As I said, I am yet to see a single word of regret about neo-fascist actions
: from anyone from the Baltic region. All Baltic netters in this group are
: doing is coming up with some pretexts as to why graves were desecrated
: and why SS anniversary should be celebrated. So, I challenge you or anyone
: else from the Baltics to come out and express your anger about the rising
: tide of fascism in the Baltics, Germany and elsewhere in Europe - not just
: Estonia.

I am against nazism and faschism and all totalitarian ideas whereever
they exist even  those in Estonia. 

For me, this is very simply, but I see so that the Western type of
multivalued democracy is challenged by totalitarian, monovalued ideologies.
First we had nazism/faschism and communism and the next challenger will be
fundamental muslims for the pluralistic, western type of democracies.
 I think multivalued, liberal minded, pluralistic
 democracies so far has
won over the nazism and communism or defeated them at least partly
 and they should
not rise again I hope. The next one which is distributing a simple
solution and a very narrow minded message for the people and
"salvation" will be muslim fundamentalism even there may be other
 fundamentalist
religions which give for one a simple answer for every problem.
It seems to be so that some people allways do not like a society where
there are too much individualism. For some it is a chaos to be reorganized
by their ideology. I am for individualism and pluralism, but this so far
only that the western type of democracy will not be in danger because
even that had to be protected somehow. So as early as possible if it
is possible nazism had to be stopped with better arguments, with better
solutions given for those who support such ideas they have.
 The same with the communism and religious fundamentalism.
Jarmo





Newsgroups: talk.politics.soviet
From: rec@nobska.Idbsu.EDU (Robert E. Conant)
Subject: Wanted: Russian->English  xlation s/w
Reply-To: rec@nobska.Idbsu.EDU (Robert E. Conant)
Organization: Boise State University
Date: Wed, 7 Oct 1992 20:34:35 GMT

I would appreciate any information on Russian to English translation software,
commercial or public domain.  Also, what OCR software does anyone have 
experience with for capturing the Cyrillic?
Thanks.
Bob
Newsgroups: talk.politics.soviet