From: selvakum@watserv1.uwaterloo.ca (C.R.Selvakumar - Electrical Engineering)
Subject: On Indian Civilization being the oldest...
Keywords: Adi Sankara, Madhvacharya, Ramanujachrya
Organization: University of Waterloo
Date: Wed, 11 Nov 1992 21:16:26 GMT


In article <BxBoqK.1xr@cs.psu.edu>, narayana@psuvax1.cs.psu.edu (Kuram T Narayana) writes:
> In article <MANI.92Nov6130141@sabotage.Berkeley.EDU> mani@cs.stanford.edu writes:
> >In article <Bx7LJF.7D3@cs.psu.edu> narayana@psuvax1.cs.psu.edu (Kuram T Narayana) writes:
> >
> >   with whether Shankara, Ramanuja, or Madhva were Tamilians. For your info. 
> >   Shankara was a Malayalee, Ramanuja was a Telugu (he was born in our Tirupathi) 
> >   not anywhere in Tamilnadu.
> >
> >No, Ramanujacharya was born in Sriperumbudur, between Madras
> >and Kanchipuram, and was definitely a Tamilian. There is a
> >shrine dedicated to him next to the Vishnu temple there.
> >
> He was born in Tirupathi. He lived most of his life in SriRanga
> Patnam. The shrine dedicated to him at SriPerumbudur, I donot know.
> Incidentally I only read about it recently, till then I was thinking that
> he was born in SriPerumbudur.
> I did not visit SriPerumbudur the last time I went to Kancheevaram. 
> My heart was sapped after seeing the decay of the Kamakshi temple.
> 
> >   Again the metaphysical content of Shankara, Ramanuja, and Madhva are
> >   all founded on Badarayana's works. Indeed he is the fulcrum of thought.
> >   Just because X happened to be a Tamilain, or just because Y happened
> >   to be a follower of X, does not damn make the thought dravidian, whether
> >   in racist terms or cultural terms.
> >
> >Well, actually, although Ramanuja's thought is based on
> >Badarayana's Brahma-Sutras, he is described by Sri Vaishnavas
> >as an Ubhaya Vedantin, one who practices both the Sanskrit and
> >the Dravida Vedanta.  Tradition is quite clear in stating that
> >the meaning of the Upanishads was made clear by the content of
> >the poems of Nammalvar, who wrote exclusively in Tamil.
> >
> 
> It is true that Ramanuja that Ramanuja synthesized the devotionalism of the
> Alvars (more specifically of Nammalvar) which is Tamilian. But the vedanthic
> aspect of it is fully Aryan; meaning that it is Badarayana's axiomatization
> of the Brahman that was the fulcrum of all the south Indian thought. In 
> analogical  reasoning up with the axioms is perhaps the toughest especially
 ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
> at that abstract level. The credit for such abstract and superlative
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
> metaphysical thoughts should always go to the Aryan rishis. I am not
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

      Would you please care to explain what you mean by "The credit
      for such abstract and superlative metaphysical thoughts should
      always go to the Aryan rishis" ? 

      Is this one of the axioms of Badarayana's or Narayana's ? ;-)

      [ I don't mean any disrespect to Badarayana or Aryan rishis
       whom I respect. But I'm afraid I don't understand what you mean by
       'should always go to the Aryan rishis'.  It sounds like
       some 'exclusivity' of some sorts !! which I've not heard expressed
       so eloquently before !]

      What need to be known is given in the short 'naan aar' ( = Who am I)
      by Sri Ramana Maharishi. Too much metaphysics is counter productive,
      and Sri J.Krishnamurthy used to ridicule the 'commentaries'. Sri
      Ramana Maharishi also says that there is no point in searching
      garbage ( 'kuppai') [ he discourages excessive poring over too
      abstract stuff. The implication is you don't achieve self realization
      from such heavy reading :-) Remember, Sri Ramana Maharishi emphasized
      Gnana margam and hence 'enquiry' but not in abstract metaphyics
      but HONEST questioning of the mind to trace the origin of thoughts;
      When one knows the 'basics' then Badarayana's work and other works
      might make sense and even then more as corroboration of ones 
      experience than as 'source'. ] 

> trying in any way to diminish the contributions of Ramanuja, Shankara,
> or of Madhva who are amongst the great philosophers that our land 
> has generated.
> 
> >So the tradition of Ramanuja is clearly a product of the
> >confluence of Sanskritic and Tamil streams of religion. I must
 ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
> >agree, however, that this is more of a cultural division than
> >an ethnic one.

      The above one sounds reasonable ! 
      I think this is the first time you have said something positive
      about Tamil contribution !
      
> >
> >Mani
> >

     Regards
     Selva Selvakumar

Xref: sparky soc.culture.indian:36281 soc.culture.indian.telugu:897