HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: 22black@sol.cs.wmich.edu (Martin Black)
Subject: Re: Amiga or Messy-DOS
Organization: Western Michigan Univ. Comp. Sci. Dept.
Date: Sat, 21 Nov 1992 06:11:49 GMT

barham@qut.edu.au writes:

>> >Oh, you wanted some serious, comparison, fact and figure type
>> >reasons?  They have been bandied about here often enough, and when it
>> >all comes done, pretty well everything the Amiga can do a PC can do
>> >also (if you add enough hardware), but just not as nicely %^)
>         ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>         This was my point, here.

>> If a PC can du anything that a Amiga can du then all it boils down to is
>> the price, and then the choice is pretty clear. In that case a PC is the
>> only viable option. Why pay $1000-$1500 more for the same functionality?

>Your figures don't compute to me.  Show me in figures how you will be
>paying $1000-1500 hundred more for the SAME functionality - that
>includes coprocessed graphics and 4 voice sound (so don't just throw
>in a sound blaster card).  Actually, don't worry - this price thread
>has been done to death.  Amigas have been dropping radically in price
>recently - $1500 hundred will get you an A3000 in the States I hear -
>take $1500 off that and you wont get much of a computer %^)

Wait a minute there, you must first find a low priced eisa 486 to compare 
to an amiga a4000.  I priced shopped and found a couple eisa 486's at about
$2800.  And I have seen an a4000 at $3000 [ w/monitor ].  So the price diff
is about $200.  But then the eisa comp didn't come with a multi-tasking os.
So add another $100.  And still then the cpu gets used very heavily to do
graphics, while on the amiga there is a lot less contention with the cpu
for the graphics.

Now remember EISA is very important to have when you are talking about 
comparing the amiga with a clone.  I meen give me a break having graphics
on a board that has a max throughput of 8mhz on a 50mhz cpu is down right
silly and slow.  Or worse having those damn local bus cards that grab your
cpu in a way that hampers it's multi-tasking ability is a real joke.  And 
you know what since there hasn't been these Eisa clones out and selling 
heavily there is a fairly small market for stuff made for it in mind.
Ie games and animation software, but that isn't the only thing.
And by the way where could one get a eisa sound card?  I know isa boards
can be put on the eisa.  But I also know that the bus runs only as fast
as the slowest board on it, ie isa sound board. [ this part of speed on 
the eisa being hampered is of recent info I recieved from a mag and haven't
been verified yet ]

And I haven't started talking about the completely inferiority of the 486
machine language, ie assembly programming.  While the 040 is much better
equipped at doing more things in one instruction than the intel counter
part.

Martin


Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
From: torban@csuvax1.csu.murdoch.edu.au (Torban Bennett)
Subject: Re: Mid Range Computers
Organization: Murdoch University
Date: 16 Nov 92 08:52:59 GMT

csmith@terapin.com (Colin Smith) writes:

>Hey you all! Any Idea when the Mid range AA based Amigas will be out? (Machines
>between the 4000 and the 1200) I heard of an Amiga 4000 with a '030' cpu in it
>will soon be released. Is this true? (Also, I'm new to this net mail stuff. It
>would me nice to engage in a good mail-chat or debate with one or several
                              ^^^^^^^^^^^^^     ^^^^^^^
>people. Thanks!!)

Hmmm, advocacy is a dangerous place for it ;-)
But, awww, what the heck!
Well _I_ heard that the 4000 with a 030 is more or less going to be a
reality.  What I'm really interested in though, is the not too recently
mentioned 2200.  What's the latest?  What's the wishlist for it? etc etc
and why have advocites stopped babbleing about it?

Torban Bennett - available for personal email discussion.  Post to
			torban@murdoch.edu.au, 
please only serious contacts.  ;-) sheees, on this group? who am I kidding?
From: fheitkamp@desire.wright.edu
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
Subject: Re: IBM Develops PC Product in 14 weeks
Date: 18 Nov 92 12:28:39 GMT
Followup-To: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
Organization: Wright State University

In article <BxvyqF.7MA@news.iastate.edu>, barrett@iastate.edu (Marc N. Barrett) writes:
> [The following is from USA TODAY, 11/17/92]
> 
> 
>    If you think IBM won't be venturing into personal communications, think 
> again.
> 
>    [At Comdex] IBM showed a prototype device that features an on-screen keypad
> and runs on MS-DOS.  Weighing just 16 ounces, the PS/2 personal communicator

	[lots of so-what stuff deleted]

>    Commodore can't even develop a screen blanker in 14 weeks!  Now that IBM
> has improved their ability to respond to technological changes in the computer
> industry, Commodore has now become by far the slowest company in the computer

	[lots of blah, blah, blah]

> industry in this respect.  IBM has reduced their response time to industry
> announcements to hours in some cases.  When Compaq announced cuts in the list
> prices of their systems, for instance, IBM responded by reducing the list
> prices of their PS/ValuePoint systems within the same hour.  
> 
>    By comparison, Commodore's response time can almost be measured in decades.
> Commodore responded to Apple's announcement of the Mac II by shipping a system

	Mark,  we've heard all of this crap from you thousands of times.
	
	Doesn't this belong in advocacy?  Better yet take to the PC groups,
	where I'm sure they'll make you a hero.  We all know Commodore as
	a company is not perfect.  But they're still here, not like some
	of the clone manufacturers.  Evidently, they must be doing something
	right.	

> ---
> | Marc Barrett -MB-  |  email: barrett@iastate.edu
> --------------------------------------------------
> 
Fred Heitkamp,  ** Not an organization.  My opinions only **
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
From: tmc@spartan.ac.BrockU.CA (Tim Ciceran)
Subject: Re: NEWTEK: WHAT HAPPENED?
Organization: Brock University, St. Catharines Ontario
Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1992 18:16:24 GMT

In article <1egoneINN41l@network.ucsd.edu> simon@ivem.ucsd.edu (Simon Lee)
writes:

>From what I've heard, they've had a falling through with CBM, and CBM
>isn't too happy with them either.  Did you notice the post by CATS about
>OpalVision, and it's merits as a video productivity tool?  But no Toaster?

I don't think this can be construed as patronage on the part of CBM, as
six other vendors with competing products (particularly GVP and DMI) were
at the Comdex exhibit as well. Newtek undoubtedly had their own display.

>I think NewTek is about to jump Amiga ship and hop on the Mac/IBM bandwagon.
>That's why they've had so much more Mac/IBM coverage than the Amiga.
>Why would anyone need to use a Mac to control the Toaster when you can control
>it with the Amiga itself?  It has to be a defection.

The whole issue of Mac/PC support has really been blown way out of proportion.
In the video industry, there is less emphasis on dedication to a particular
computing platform, with greater concern for promoting a product which is
feasible and works with existing hardware. It is only natural for NewTek to
cater to the needs of specific platform users by providing an interface which
they find intuitive.

As for not lauding the Amiga in their ads, I don't find this problematic
either. The Toaster is marketed to a specific niche which is familiar with
standalone solutions and often a bit phobic of the computer connection.
By selling them their product and not all the political baggage it carries
with it, everyone is happy. I'm sure that if some company developed a device
which the Amiga only accessed through ARexx, we'd be a bit miffed as well.
 
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
From: amiga@Hawaii.Edu (ftp Amiga Manager)
Subject: Re: A few comments about productivity (short rant!)
Organization: University of Hawaii
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1 PL6]
Distribution: na
Date: Wed, 18 Nov 1992 02:46:04 GMT

Thorne Kontos (kontos@clipper.ingr.com) wrote:
: Every so often, I update my resume. So here is my experience with
: Word for Windows. Why did I use it? Mainly to get the output done
: on a laser printer. My foolish mistake was not in realizing that
: Word is definitely NOT WYSIWYG.
: 
: Basically I wanted all major headers in BOLD (using the same font)
: 
: <BOLD>     HEADER 
: plain      * job skill 1
:            * job skill 2
: 
: Please note the alignment - a perfect straight row up and down. When
: I printed the resume, nothing lined up...NOTHING. And I was not about
: to count the stupid dots by sticking my nose two inches away from the 
: monitor. I ended up printing and reprinting until everything was aligned.
: Was this productive - NO. The worse part of all this was I could have
: accomplished the same task on the Amiga using ProWrite (the first version)
: in a quarter of the time. For those of you that bitch, I never read the
: instructions for ProWrite, so why should I have to for Word for Windows.
: 
: Was I productive with Word for Windows? NO. (TWO HOURS wasted and it still
: wasn't quite right - small alignment errors due to Fonts not being the
: same when in BOLD.) I could have done the job faster with a typewriter.
: And that is no lie. No wonder American business is in its current state,
: with such useful tools as Word. HAHAHAHAHA!
: 

Well, I can't say that I've ever actually used Word for Windows, but 
Microsoft Word on the Mac, and just about every other halfway decent 
word processing avoids your alignment problems by either using tab or 
margin/paragraph settings.

-baron

--
  // uhunix amiga archive | amiga@ftp.hawaii.edu         | ftp: ftp.hawaii.edu
\X/  my alter ego account | baron@uhunix.uhcc.hawaii.edu |      128.171.44.7
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
From: suopanki@stekt7.oulu.fi (Heikki T. Suopanki)
Subject: Re: Oh my God! Help my friend not buy an IBM!
Reply-To: heikki.suopanki@phoenix.oulu.fi
Organization: University of Oulu, Dept. of EE, Finland
Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1992 14:28:47 GMT


>IDC have a definition of a workstation:

What is IDC?

>* The main difference is in the operating system.
>* A PC uses DOS, OS/2 or MAC OS.
>* A workstation uses specific OS, UNIX, VMS, MVS and so on.
>* The secondary difference is the CPU.
>* PCs uses 8, 16, 32 bit CPUs.
>* A workstation uses M680x0 or a RISC.

By that definition Sun-3 is a workstation, but Sun 386i is not....
That doesn't make sense.

-Heikki
From: kar5@po.CWRU.Edu (Kevin A. Roll)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
Subject: Re: The piracy argument to end all arguments....
Date: 16 Nov 1992 01:11:21 GMT
Organization: Case Western Reserve University, Cleveland, OH (USA)
Reply-To: kar5@po.CWRU.Edu (Kevin A. Roll)
NNTP-Posting-Host: slc12.ins.cwru.edu


In a previous article, martin@TIGGER.STCLOUD.MSUS.EDU (Psigon Matrix....do you DOUBT us??) says:

>Not to join either side here, but I bet many of the "honest" people on the
>net here have a copy of an audio cassette, or a CD, or have copied pages
>from a book w/o authorization....it's called hippocracy, and it's far more
					      ^^^^^^^^^^
>rampant than the piracy of software...but...back to the subject.

Is that a system of government where the people are ruled by large
African river-dwelling mammals?

Try "hypocrisy."


-- 
AMIGA///| Zeta |  / |/  | | | | | \ /  |\ | | |\ |\ \ / |
    /// | Psi  |  \ |   | |\| |\|  |   |/ | | |/ |/  |  | These are a few
\\\///  |      |  / |\  | | | | |  |   |  |_| |  |   |  | of my favorite
 \XX/   |      |  S  K  I  N   N   Y   P   U  P  P   Y  | things...
From: root@rkamiga.UUCP (Rick Kelly)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
Subject: Re:  Future Entertainment Show, London
Distribution: world
Date: 19 Nov 92 13:29:32 EST
Organization: Rick's Amiga

In article <kdarling.722051540@garfield.catt.ncsu.edu> kdarling@garfield.catt.ncsu.edu (Kevin Darling) writes:
>Farrukh Alavi writes:
>> The CDTV Photo CD demo wasn't running off a Compaq - it was running off a
>> CDTV. Both the CDTV and the DCTV box required to view Photo CD files were
>> available for sale. The only thing preventing Commodore from promoting
>> Photo CD compatibility (within the context of the DCTV box) was the
>> licensing arrangement (Kodak was willing, Philips wasn't).
> 
>That's a great story, but it seems to ignore a few critical points.
>In order to be promoted as a full "Photo CD" player, there's a lot more
>involved than just reading some picture files off the disc.
>
>The CD-ROM drive would first need to be able to handle multisession discs.
>The player *must* also use Kodak display algorithms, it (probably) needs
>a Bridge Disc (modified ISO9660) file manager, and (probably) will need
>to be able to use the coming expanded Photo CD menuing/audio features...
>which is handled on Kodak players via a custom ASIC, and on CD-I players
>by including a CD-I program on each Photo CD disc.
>
>So it would seem that CDTV didn't meet Kodak specs as a "Photo CD player."
>
>> On the subject of Photo CDs, HAM-8 with a Photo CD datatype on the new
>> Amigas makes an excellent way of seamlessly integrating Photo CD into the
>> Amiga OS. Hope that Philips drops its objections to Commodore licensing
>> the technology - after all, they don't mind Apple building Photo CD
>> support into QuickTime. 
>
>Right, which again is why I doubt Philips is the main holdup.  It's likely
>far more a matter of Kodak hiring someone internally to do an Amiga port...
>the same problem which faces an awful lot of other computer types, btw.
>
>> Of course, if they don't, it is not impossible to reverse-engineer the
>> Photo CD file format and release it as a public domain datatype...;-).
>> (Not that I'm necessarily advocating this 'brute force' approach).
>
>There's already source code for that posted on the net ;-)  Unfortunately,
>Kodak says anything not licensed from them can't be called "Photo CD", and
>since "Photo CD" covers more than just their file formats they have a point.
>Which is why I think we should just call it something else and have fun :-)

Also, there was a recent thread in alt.sources, where a Kodak representative
was claiming that any attempt to read in pictures from a Photo CD without
first paying them $695 for a license for their development software, was a
violation of their copyright/patent on the compression methods that they use.

Of course, they only have $695 developer packages for the Mac, MSDOS, and
Windows 3.x.

--
Rick Kelly		Rick's Amiga		Framingham, Mass.

		think!unixland!rmkhome!rkamiga!root
From: root@rkamiga.UUCP (Rick Kelly)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
Subject: Re:  MORE POLITICS! Re: PC, Redneck President, and other bad news
Distribution: na
Date: 17 Nov 92 12:43:01 EST
Organization: Rick's Amiga

In article <1992Nov16.180823.29788@usl.edu> das9674@usl.edu (Stephenson Daniel A) writes:
>In article <root.02ul@rkamiga.UUCP> root@rkamiga.UUCP (Rick Kelly) writes:
>>According to an article in the Boston Sunday Globe for 11/15/92:
>>
>>Clinton's top economic adviser said that action on many of his campaign
>>promises, including a middle-class tax cut, will be postponed until the
>>economy is strong enough to sustain new pressures on the federal budget.
>>
>>Hah!
>>
>>Business as usual.
>
>Hmmm... maybe there ought to be another election.

I've always thought there should be another box on the ballot that says:

Get rid of these bozos and give us some new candidates. (yes/no)

>I think it is hilarious how Clinton shows his true self after putting
>on for the election.
>
>This is great - it is SO OBVIOUS how Clinton totally duped all those 
>STUPID voters out there into voting for him.

He's now realizing that the US ain't Arkansas.  There is a world wide
recession, and a lot of political upheaval, similar to the 1930's.

He ran with the idea of being another FDR.  He forgot that what saved FDR
was WWII, which created lots of jobs.  WPA and all those other make work
programs hardly did anything for the country.

Also, he has to live with the last budget that Bush signed, at least until
the end of the next fiscal year.  And then he has to fight for a new budget.

He can't play with the money supply as he doesn't have direct power over the
Federal Reserve.

The media touted all these new senators and congressman as being a fresh
voice in the government.  According to what i have read, they are all running
around trying to get into the power groups of their choice.

It's business as usual.  The game on capital hill didn't change, just because
there was an election.  Clinton should have asked Carter for some advice
before he starting making wild promises.

>>Rick Kelly		Rick's Amiga		Framingham, Mass.
>>
>>		think!unixland!rmkhome!rkamiga!root
>>
>So Rick, you like own an Amiga store that has Internet, or what?

I wish I did own an Amiga store.

I'm a self-employed UNIX consultant.  Rkamiga has a UUCP connection to my
UNIX box on the other side of the room, which brings in my news and mail
from the net.  I figured that if I was going to post to the Amiga groups,
I should do it from my Amiga.  So I have AmigaUUCP set up for news and mail,
and get the amiga newsgroups sent over from rmkhome.


--
Rick Kelly		Rick's Amiga		Framingham, Mass.

		think!unixland!rmkhome!rkamiga!root
From: matt@gbrmpa.gov.au (Matt Crowd)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
Subject: Re: EMPLANT vs. QUADRA Price
Date: 18 Nov 92 03:53:26 GMT
Organization: Great Barrier Reef Marine Park Authority

In article <sf0jj5i00iUz87ghhK@andrew.cmu.edu> bc2y+@andrew.cmu.edu (Brian T Cheek) writes:
>It's funny to see people compare the price of an A4000+EMPLANT with a
>Quadra.  The Amiga configuration might be cheaper, so might the Quadra.
>
>You forget one thing; how much is a Quadra system that emulates an Amiga?

You forgot one thing, EMPLANT doesn't work.

>Waiting...

Waiting...

>-Brian :)

-- 
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Matt Crowd - Systems Support - Great Barrier Reef Marine Park Authority - AUS
Voice +61 77 818825, Fax +61 77 726093, email matt@gbrmpa.gov.au
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
From: eyvind@Lise.Unit.NO (Eyvind Bernhardsen)
Subject: Re: Why consider an Amiga?  [A stoned Mac user wants to know]
Organization: Norwegian Institute of Technology
Date: Mon, 23 Nov 92 19:35:40 GMT

In article <84082@ut-emx.uucp>, ifbb657@ccwf.cc.utexas.edu (Douglas Floyd) writes:
 > Here are a couple of questions (Flames OK)
 > 
 > 1:  What is the difference between programming on a Mac or an Amiga?

Depends how you program...  Never programmed a mac, but I hear the user interface
is a bitch to get right...

 > 2:  Will Apple's ButtKicker line (PowerPC) kill off the C= line?

Nope (My opinion only, of course...)

 > 3:  I heard the Amiga is the only computer out there with every
 >     major app key-disk or hardware copy-protected.  It this true,
 >     or crockery?

Well, it's crockery.  I don't have a single app that has *any* c/protection (don't
have too many, tho...  SAS/C big enough..?) - my impression is that most
c/protected high-end software uses dongle protection...

 > 4:  How large is the C= presence in the US and worldwide?

US, not much...  World wide, the Amiga's pretty big (Well, Europe-wide :)

 > 4.5:  What are these freddie fish, or whatever thingies that are at
 >       the local archive site?

PD/shareware compilations...  XLent, if you ask me...

 > 5:  Is the Amiga considered a workstation? :-) (For people reading c.s.m.a)

Shouldn't think so...  I don't read c.s.m.a, o/c...

 > 6:  Is there a UNIX that is runnable on the systems?

Yup...  Minix (also others, I think, but Minix I'm sure of)

 > 7:  Where can I find a C= dealer?  (These birds are as rare as
 >     hen's teeth around Austin, TX)

Stateside, use mail order (Your fault for not living in a REAL country ;)

 > 8:  What encryption proggies are there to secure hard disks or files?

None, I think...  Notsure what you mean, tho...  Give PC or Mac examples of these
things, and I might know what you're after...

 > 9:  Does C= sell TEMPEST spec Amigas?

Nope...  You can get a BLAZEMONGER spec Amiga, tho :)

 > 10:  How crashworthy is the Amiga OS?

*embarassed shuffling*  Actually, it's not *that* bad; OS2.0 will generally let
you carry on doing other things, freezing the crashed task; unless, of course, you
did something REALLY stupid ($00000003 exception, f.ex...  Address exception, that
is...  Where's that Memory protection? *sigh*)

 > 11:  (The beeg question :-)  Why should I port stuff over to the
 >      Amiga line?

'Cos otherwise me 'n' the boyz're gonna drop by 'n give ya a small anatomy lesson,
orright?  Nuff said...

 > ********** ifbb657@ccwf.cc.utexas.edu (Douglas Floyd) **********

 > You WANT your hard drive trashed now.

My harddrive IS trashed right now...  Aaaaaargh!

-Eyvind

-- 
     //|                             | DISCLAIMER: I don't HAVE opinions.
    // |                             | I just repeat what everyone else says!
\\ //--|miga: There can be only one. |
 \X/   |         eyvind@lise.unit.no | Aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaargh!  Ackpth!
From: alan@uts.amdahl.com (Alan Bomberger)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
Subject: Re: Air time
Date: 18 Nov 92 17:46:42 GMT
Organization: Amdahl Corporation, Sunnyvale CA


My local cable company (Cable Coop of Palo Alto)
uses an amiga to maintain a nice program schedule
display on one channel.  If you get up early enough
on Sunday (looking for Meet the Press) you can 
spot the Workbench Screen while the program boots
up.  Community College channel uses an Amiga also
as I have seen its Workbench screen.  Don't know
what they use it for though.

-- 
Alan Bomberger     | (408)-992-2748  | alan@uts.amdahl.com
Amdahl Corporation | Opinions are free, worth it, and not Amdahl's

Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
From: jgrimm@TorreyPinesCA.ncr.com (Jeffrey Grimmett 9999)
Subject: Re: Oh my God! Help my friend not buy an IBM!
Organization: NCR (Torrey Pines Development Center)
Disclaimer: This posting does not necessarily reflect the opinions of NCR.
Date: Wed, 18 Nov 92 22:24:07 GMT

Quoth linville@garfield.catt.ncsu.edu (John W. Linville):
]> 
]> Finally, for those who devalue high processor speeds, try getting 30-40 back-
]> ground processes running and then tell me how well your Amiga compares to my
]> PC running OS/2.
]> 
]> John W. Linville

Provided you are doing the same thing under OS/2, an Amiga will compare quite
well.  Hell, I routinely run 10-12 tasks concurrently on my 'puny' 020 and
notice very little degradation of the system unless there is wicked hard drive
access going on with two or more tasks.  I presume an 040 or 030 would offer
even better performance.
-- 
@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@********************************************
Jeff Grimmett [SuperBitMap BBS]          * fido!1:202/1401.0 [619-460-7290]
jeff_grimmett@f1401.n202.z1.fidonet.org  * jgrimm@TorreyPinesCA.ncr.com
 The opinions expressed in this message are thoughtful, reasoned, and logical.
      	It goes without saying that they are not those of my employer.
*******************************************************************************
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
Subject: Re: Sega stats. VS. Amiga
From: <DXB132@psuvm.psu.edu>
Date: Sun, 22 Nov 1992 00:59:30 EST
 <hgm.722004736@news.ncsu.edu><1992Nov17.215302.29266@news.uit.no> 
 <Bxzqrx.7FB@ccu.umanitoba.ca><etxansk.722276283@garbod20> <udmx.722383399@mcl>
Organization: Penn State University

In article <udmx.722383399@mcl>, udmx@mcl.ucsb.edu (Richard Boyd) says:

>In <etxansk.722276283@garbod20> etxansk@garbo writes:

>>remilld@ccu.umanitoba.ca (Jason Remillard) writes:


>I thought Sega did all of their game development on an Amiga.  This would
>imply
>that the capabilities (game-wise) are at least equal.

Some Sega developers use PCs. Does that imply that PCs are equal game-wise
to the Genesis? It implies nothing.

Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy