HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: tucker@mitre.org (William Tucker)
Newsgroups: alt.magick
Subject: Re: Possible to Obtain magic powers>?
Keywords: Re: Possible to Obtain magic powers>?
Date: 22 Jul 92 23:34:48 GMT
Organization: The MITRE Corporation, McLean, VA, USA

You (Eshin-Fun) say:
  >>: I would not strive for more power, I still have not found the bounds of
  : what I have. I give of mine freely, and never run short. My power is only 
  : limited by my limitations, and if I were to believe I would run out, surely
  : I would do so.
  : 
  : 
  : The greatest gift is self.<<

  Unfortunately, though this is very beautiful, and selfless, it is also
  urealistic. Each person comes into this world to learn something. Some
  however, need to pass through difficulties that no one can, no matter what
  power you freely transfer, assist them. The nature of humanity is to be
  ungrateful. We learn appreciation only through philosophical codes or
  integrety, which again is a learning process.
  There's the crux of the problem. An individual cannot learn unless they are
  capable to "see" for themselves.
  If you will to help, the only thing you can do is to inspire them to
  recognize or become aware of that which they seek but you cannot make them
  "see" what they would not want to see. to quote: You can take a horse to the
  water, but you cannot make them drink"

I (William Tucker) think:

You mistake a bit the thought of the writer. Not to sound too eastern here but 
when the cup realizes that it lives in the ocean then there is no paucity of 
water. Everything is power, and we depend on each other for existence. You are 
given a self to take care of to learn that lesson. You are given others to 
interact with to learn that lesson. That can not be given which can not be 
recieved. Knowledge may come also by providing the right environment, not words. 
We all gain when the world is a better place.....when I feel your pain, would I 
cause you more? If the world is alive would not a storm or that behind a storm 
have a reason? Is power not in truth understanding, for what is force without 
application, but a display? Or f = m*a while P = f*d/t, sorry little physics 
humor there I was getting carried away. True power lies in being open and aware 
of the flow through and around you, and sometimes using it. Very good discussion 
guys! Thanks.

Wm T.

.standard disclaimer
Newsgroups: alt.magick
From: Tim.ONeill@english.utas.edu.au (Tim O'Neill)
Subject: Re: Runes (was Re: Odinism Help for Newbie)
Organization: University of Tasmania (Australia)
Date: Thu, 23 Jul 1992 05:09:43 GMT

In article <UeOoXze00WBNM6Bqwt@andrew.cmu.edu>, "Stephen P. Marting" <sm6h+@andrew.cmu.edu> writes:

> A very good introduction to Runes is _Runes_ by Ralph Warren Elliott. 
> It is available at our (CMU) library; your milage may vary.  It's much
> more complete, and it will correct many of the errors in Blum's book, as
> well as admitting where there is not enough information to interpret
> something for sure (Blum just makes up his own world at these points,
> and while he does state this, it's very difficult to tell WHERE without
> another source like Elliott), or where there are wildly different
> schools of thought on a subject (Blum merrily pretends there is only ONE
> way).

While it has been recently reprinted, I'd say RWV Elliott's book
is pretty outdated. A more reliable source for the beginner is
R.I. Page's 'Runes'  or his 'English Runic Inscriptions'. Page's
reassesment of runes and magic is particularly interesting; he 
argues that the runes were simply an alphabet, and only used for
magical inscriptions in the way any alphabet was. There was nothing 
intrinsically magical about the runes.
> 
> However, Elliott doesn't do very much in the area of runic divination. 
> A good source for this (although the great difference in names may be
> confusing) is _The Runic Workbook_ by Tony Willis (thanks Ann!).  It's
> put out by "The Aquarian Press" in Wellingborough, Northamptonshire
> (Elliott's book is published by Manchester University Press, as well as
> St. Martin's Press in New York).  I can't comment too much on this, as I
> haven't had time to do any *serious* studying with it, but it appears
> sound.

I've made a study of books on runic divination over the last four years
and, since both Old English and Old Norse are my fields, I've read all
of the primary literature that I can get my hands on, and in the original
laguages when possible. I can assure you that runic divination is a 
MODERN invention. There is no evidence that it was ever practiced by the 
early germanics. Tacitus mentions several means of divination including
the randomn selection of slivers of wood marked with 'signs', but there 
is no evidence that these were runic and other than this there is NO 
OTHER EVIDENCE FOR RUNIC DIVINATION WHATSOEVER from the middle ages.
It's a con-job.
Wes thu hl
Tim O'Neill
Newsgroups: alt.magick
Subject: Re: Is Magick worth the effort??
From: wce@hogbbs.scol.pa.us (Bill Eichman)
Date: Fri, 31 Jul 92 02:20:15 EDT
Organization: The Heart of Gold BBS, Lemont PA

u9038752@cc.uow.edu.au (roger bolton) writes:

> a) does my perception of magick, that I have obtained just from some
> simple experimentaion and reading, agree with those who have spent the
> necessary time actually practising?

Being able to control your beliefs, to control the reality your nervous 
system "receives" is a part of it, but only a part.

The most important result of magick for me is perhaps best described as 
"waking up", becoming a self-aware animal on the surface of a planet, 
becoming fully concious of my position is history, etc, etc. "ordinary" 
human conciousness is not 'self-aware' in this way; and this 
'self-awareness' enables the use of a whole new spectrum of human 
"powers", subtle things mostly, but remarkable.

There are many more things, the 'results' of magick are not simple.

> b) was it worth it, in the opinions of those who have spent hours/days/years?
> practising the rather tedious magickal exercises, to do so?
> thanks for any comments/opinions/etc

Yes, absolutely, for myself-- but it has meant a great deal of anguish 
and a certain type of irresolvable loneliness. And, I think if I had 
really known what the results of my years of practices would be, I might 
not of tried so hard. When I was young, I sought powers. I attained 
powers, and found that all they brought me was responsilbility. Would I 
have worked so hard if I had known about the responsibility? I'd like to 
think so. But that could be hubris.

Yes, it was worth it, but I did not get what I expected.

Later, Bill
From: cranmer@ohstpy.mps.ohio-state.edu
Newsgroups: alt.magick
Subject: Re: INTERESTED (Philadelphia)
Date: 29 Jul 92 21:03:38 EDT

 Hello,

 Here is a metaphysical/'occult' book-lover's tour of Philadelphia...
 For those not nearby, I apologize for the waste of your bandwidth.

 FIRST, there is South Street - the Greenwich Villiage of Philly.  One
 can hit all of these stores in a row.  It's not a bad walk.

 (1) HAND OF ARIES (620 S. 4th) : a small, but friendly shop focusing
     on Wiccan stuff, but with enough ceremonial magick to make it a
     worthwhile stop for me.
 (2) TOWER BOOKS (425 South St.) : a megalomaniac chain, yes, but with
     a big magazine selection and a few good rows of religion/philosophy.
 (3) BOOK TRADER (501 South St.) : not much occult stuff, but with two
     floors jam packed with used books and records, why pass it up?
 (4) GARLAND OF LETTERS (527 South St.) : your standard "New Age" shop,
     heavy on the incense and Tangerine-Dream-ish background music, but
     with the biggest magick selection in the city.
 (5) HARRY'S OCCULT SHOP (1238 South St.) : infamous for its potions and
     skulls, but with a small and eclectic book selection.
 (6) FACTOTUM BOOKS (1709 South St.) : a nice used/antiquarian bookshop.
     Check out the 2nd floor (watch the rickety steps!) for some religion/
     philosophy/occult, but not a lot.

 Whew.  If you've got any energy left, you can try...

 ROBIN'S BOOK STORE (108 S. 13th St.) : a nice selection of new books:
     astrology, magick, mythology, and used magazines upstairs.

 BORDERS (17XX ? Walnut St.) : okay, another mega-chain, but with a great
     magick selection.  If you drive to the one in Rosemont, you may
     find yet another alt.magick denizen working there....

 LAME DUCK BOOKS (218 S. 45th) : a little out of the way (okay, a lot),
     but worth it.  A lot of the good stuff may be lurking in the
     'religion' category, or behind rickety walls.

 Last, but definitely not least, is the READING TERMINAL MARKET.
     What's that you say? "But this is just an old train station that is
     now used to sell fresh food!"  Yes, but there is a well-hidden
     book stall on the west side that specializes in the esoteric!!!
     The prices may be exhorbitant, but I guarantee you'll see stuff
     found nowhere else in the city.  It's between 11th and 13th, just
     above Market Street.  Sign the petition to keep it open!
____________________________________________________________________________
   "Hold your fire -- Keep it burning bright..."

                                  Steve Cranmer
                                  cranmer@ohstpy.mps.ohio-state.edu
From: oispeggy@ubvmsd.cc.buffalo.edu (Peggy Brown)
Newsgroups: alt.magick
Subject: Re: Goal of Magick
Date: 29 Jul 92 15:03:00 GMT
Organization: University at Buffalo
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41

In article <1992Jul29.095124.23882@newshost.anu.edu.au>,  (David Tomlinson) writes...
> 
>This is my first post to this group so feel free to flame away.
> 
>I have been working on (in my head) an idea about the 
>goals of metaphysical techniques around the world, and it 
>would seem to me that the first goal of all 'Magickal
>Systems' is to stop the internal dialogue ie. your thoughts, 

I agree with this.

>and the second is to obtain control over your dreams.

Optional (IMO).

>Is this making it too simple?

Those who know the most about it (IMO) always point toward yoga.

>Cheers
> 
>David Tomlinson

- Peggy -
From: oispeggy@ubvmsd.cc.buffalo.edu (Peggy Brown)
Newsgroups: alt.magick
Subject: Re: Deryni magic (was Re: Ritual weapons)
Date: 26 Jul 92 17:58:00 GMT
Organization: University at Buffalo
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41

In article <1D1ioB3w164w@netlink.cts.com>, misha@netlink.cts.com (Michael Glosson) writes...
>wt0b+@andrew.cmu.edu (William Henry Timmins) writes:
> 
>> My belief that the over-structure of ordered magic is chaos, and the
>> over-structure of chaos magic is order.
>> 
>> It's a scale thing. I've often seen that if one is focused on, the
>> other is expressed at another level.
>> 
> 
>What?!?!?  Maybe If Zelazny is your God.  Have you looked at Liber Null
>(an IOT tome), or any of the work of Austin Spare?u!
> 
>m
> 

Could you please explain what you find of benefit in the works 
you cited?  I do not find "liber this or that" references to be 
an adequate answer.

- Peggy -
Newsgroups: alt.magick
From: joshua@coombs.anu.edu.au (Joshua Geller)
Subject: Re: Angels
Organization: Computer Services Centre, Australian National University
Date: 29 Jul 92 05:03:48 GMT

ba@mrcnext.cso.uiuc.edu (B.A. Davis-Howe) writes:

>harris@drvax3.msfc.nasa.gov (Mitch Harris) writes:

>>I'm not sure if this is the right group to post in, but here goes:
>>Has anyone read " A Book of Angels", & if so, do you believe in them?
>>Has anyone had an experience which might be construed as an encounter
>>with angels?
>>Thanks!


>I have not read that book, but I have seen the Senior member of our Community
>pull it down as a reference.  That book certainly has no effect on our views 
>on Angels, since the Senior member only got it in the last few years.
>[...]
>        We both experience them fairly often, he more often than I.  It is 
>sometimes quite interesting to be having a conversation with him and to be 
>aware that he is having another part of the conversation with someone (not
>somebody) else in the pauses in his speech.  It is also sometime quite 
>annoying. :-)  

you'll be happy to know that modern antipsychotic drugs can relieve these
symptoms without the harmful side effects that made the phenothiazines so
uncomfortable to use. there is no need for your friend (or you) to suffer any
longer. consult a reputable psychiatrist and these hallucinations can be a 
thing of the past!

josh
From: canders@isr.harvard.edu (Carl E. Anderson)
Newsgroups: alt.magick
Subject: Re: Angels
Date: 28 Jul 92 16:17:56 GMT
Organization: Harvard University, Cambridge, MA

In article <harris.712325926@drvax3> harris@drvax3.msfc.nasa.gov (Mitch Harris) writes:
>I'm not sure if this is the right group to post in, but here goes:
>Has anyone read " A Book of Angels", & if so, do you believe in them?
>Has anyone had an experience which might be construed as an encounter
>with angels?
>Thanks!

	Well, I can't say I've knowingly met any, and I'm not going to say
I don't believe in them.  But I have read a neat book called "A Dictionary
of Angels" which had the list of angels and what they do.  Pretty
interesting stuff.

Carl

---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Carl Edlund Anderson	            	"Hefi ek ok aldri sva reitt vapn
canders@isr.harvard.edu			at manni at eigi hafi vidh kommit."
OR
anderso2@husc.harvard.edu			- Skarphedhinn Njalsson 
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Newsgroups: alt.magick
From: chem8w@jane.uh.edu (Councilman, David A.)
Subject: Re: The art of tarot
Summary: Merlin, Tavaglione, Voyager
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41    
Organization: University of Houston
Date: Tue, 21 Jul 1992 17:06:00 GMT

In article <BrK8GJ.rr@acsu.buffalo.edu>, oispeggy@ubvmsd.cc.buffalo.edu (Peggy Brown) writes...
>In article <=6=m2rk@lynx.unm.edu>, cipher@lacerta.unm.edu (Rev. J. B. Bell) writes...
>>In article <1992Jul14.155737.18218@terminator.cc.umich.edu> briansp@css.itd.umich.edu (Brian Spolarich) writes:
>> 
>>I *really* liked the Major Arcana of the Merlin tarot.  Unfortunately,
>>the minor arcana are not only unillustrated, but downright ugly.  A
>>rather obvious Macintosh production, they are.  Also the rather thick
>>book one is forced to buy with it has only the sketchiest of
>>interpretations for the minor arcana and court cards.  If R. J.
>>Stewart would clean up his scholarship and illustrate the minor cards,
>>I'd buy that deck in a second.
> 
>> 
>>                               --Rev. J. B. Bell
> 
>I'd like to stress that this is not a good deck to start with, 
>like I recently did.  Stewart invents his own symbols for 
>elements (beasts, fish, birds, & snakes) and his own numbering 
>system, which does not correspond with the paths of the Qabalah, 
>or anything else that I've come across.  (Now I've written in 
>pencil on each card the path it belongs to.)  Plus the book 
>sucks.  As mentioned by Rev. Bell, it doesn't give the slightest 
>idea how to interpret the minor arcana and court cards, which is 
>a big problem because Stewart made up his own symbols and numbers.  
>Also, I believe he threw in some extra cards (the aces?) which he 
>claims were originally used in tarot decks back in the middle ages.
>Still trying to figure out what to do with these.
> 
>Its getting easier now, but not a good deck to start with.  If 
>I'd known then what I was getting into, I would have started with 
>the Thoth deck, because then I could have talked to other people 
>about it.
> 
>- Peggy -

While Im not the original poster, thank you for your comments.  I'd 
recently considered purchasing Merlin, and, while not 
completely new to Tarot, I still consider myself a neophyte.

I currently have both Rider/Waite and Tavaglione's Stairs of Gold, and
someday plan to get Thoth.  I also have a deck I havent heard any mention
of:  Voyager.  Any comments on this deck?  Each card, in both Minor and
Major Arcanum, is a collage of pictures reflecting the basic 'mood' of the 
suit and card.  It seems to be, compared to Tavaglione, at least, your basic
politically correct, environmentally-conscious, incapable-of-offending-
any-belief-system-or-mindset deck. I enjoy it when Im in "that sort" of
mood.  

It's also great at parties. =)
Newsgroups: alt.magick
From: harris@drvax3.msfc.nasa.gov (Mitch Harris)
Subject: Angels
Organization: NASA/MSFC
Date: 28 Jul 92 12:18:46 GMT

I'm not sure if this is the right group to post in, but here goes:
Has anyone read " A Book of Angels", & if so, do you believe in them?
Has anyone had an experience which might be construed as an encounter
with angels?
Thanks!


       (Posted for Beverly H.)

--
Mitch Harris                           |  New Technology Inc.
(205)-544-2846                         |  700 Boulevard South, #401
drvax3!harris@freedom.msfc.nasa.gov    |  Huntsville, AL  35802

Organization: Freshman, Physics, Carnegie Mellon, Pittsburgh, PA
Newsgroups: alt.magick
Date: Tue, 21 Jul 1992 21:03:30 -0400 
From: Shawn Clayton Knight <sk4p+@andrew.cmu.edu>
Subject: Re: Odd Fellows
Distribution: usa

I've heard of them, there's a chapter near my hometown which is in turn
near Pittsburgh ...

They seem to be a fraternal group, somewhat along the lines of Masonry,
though nowhere nearly as elaborate or esoteric.  If they're any more
esoteric than many fraternal organizations rich with symbolism, they
hide it well.

-shawn
"OddFellows Local 151 behind the firehouse ..."
-"Oddfellows Local 151", from REM's _Document_ album
From: farris@ruhets.rutgers.edu (Lorenzo Farris)
Newsgroups: alt.magick
Subject: Re: INTERESTED
Summary: The best place I know of in NYC is The Magickal Childe,
Date: 27 Jul 92 22:17:59 GMT
Organization: Rutgers Univ., New Brunswick, N.J.

In article <1097.726.uupcb@factory.com>, harish.reddy@factory.com (Harish Reddy) writes:
> I'm am interested in 'real magic' and I was wondering if someone could
> tell me where I might begin to learn.  Also, possibly the locations of
> places in NYC where I might obtain additional information. Thank you.
>                                             


Check out the Magickal Childe in Manhattan, at 35 W.19th St.
Newsgroups: alt.magick
From: erc@unislc.uucp (Ed Carp)
Subject: Re: Is Magick worth the effort??
X-Newsreader: Tin 1.1 PL4
Organization: Unisys Corporation SLC
Date: Fri, 31 Jul 1992 18:10:43 GMT

oispeggy@ubvmsd.cc.buffalo.edu (Peggy Brown) writes:

: I can't stand it when people mention their powers without 
: explaining what their powers are and how they got them.
: 
: I've come across too many people who do this, and when asked, 
: don't really want to discuss their powers - its a secret.  

Perhaps the secret they refer to is that they really don't have any
"powers" at all, but they want to intimate to people that they do.
I think it's called "insecurity".

: Assuming here that you don't want to talk about your powers 
: either, but if you do, please tell me all about them.

I'd like to know, too.  What powers?  I can't stand all this "secret" crap.
Either you have them, or you don't.  If you do, you have nothing to hide.

I have powers, too.  I can heal.  I can see auras.  I can manipulate energy.
I'm working on my astral travel - I'm not good at it yet, but practice makes
perfect, right? :)
-- 
Ed Carp, N7EKG     erc@apple.com                801/269-8125
"This is the final task I will ever give you, and it  goes  on  forever.   Act
happy, feel happy, be happy, without a reason in the world. Then you can love,
and do what you will."           -- Dan Millman, "Way Of The Peaceful Warrior"
From: egnr76@castle.ed.ac.uk (A Kashko)
Newsgroups: alt.magick
Subject: Re: moderation
Date: 21 Jul 92 10:23:59 GMT
Organization: Edinburgh University

In article <9207171145.AA26888@bailey.cpac.washington.edu > joshua@CPAC.WASHINGTON.EDU (Joshua Geller) writes:
 >
 >the main reason I didn't have the group as a moderated group to
 >begin with was because I didn't want the responsibility of
 >deciding what is worthwhile and what is shit. I have definite
 >opinions as to what is worthwhile and what is shit, and just
 >possibly some of what I think is shit should be seen by others.
 >
 >no, all in all, I don't think I'd want a.m to be moderated.

	
	I second that. Use of a kill file gets rid of most things.
From: harish.reddy@factory.com (Harish Reddy) 
Newsgroups: alt.magick
Subject: INTERESTED
Date: 27 Jul 92 04:33:00 GMT
Distribution: world
Organization: Invention Factory's BBS - New York City, NY - 212-274-1243v.32bis
Reply-To: harish.reddy@factory.com (Harish Reddy) 

I'm am interested in 'real magic' and I was wondering if someone could
tell me where I might begin to learn.  Also, possibly the locations of
places in NYC where I might obtain additional information. Thank you.
From: elendil@mintir.new-orleans.la.us (Edward J. Branley)
Newsgroups: alt.magick
Subject: Re: Angels
Date: Wed, 29 Jul 92 07:00:20 CDT
Organization: Minas Tirith BBS, New Orleans, LA

sallyb@qiclab.scn.rain.com (Sally Bowley) writes:

> an aside to this thread : which particular archangels to you  (or
> anyone else) attribute to each element? i've been doing a fair bit of
> reading lately and have not yet found a consistency for this. thanks!
> sally
>

I guess my reading on this took me in a different course, because I've always
attributed Raphael to Air in the East, Michael to Fire in the south, Gabriel to
Water in the West, and Uriel to Earth in the North.  For me, this goes back
years to my first discovery of Katherine Kurtz' Deryni novels, then grew into
ceremonies like the Lesser Banishing Ritual of the Pentagram.  Kurtz' novels
contain great visualisations of the Archangels, if you like a touch of the
medieval.  They're a great starting point for developing your own images.




>Edward J. Branley         elendil@mintir.new-orleans.la.us<
>Seashell Software, Metairie, LA            +1-504-455-5087<
Organization: Freshman, Physics, Carnegie Mellon, Pittsburgh, PA
Newsgroups: alt.magick
Date: Thu, 30 Jul 1992 02:00:35 -0400 
From: Shawn Clayton Knight <sk4p+@andrew.cmu.edu>
Subject: Re: The Middle Pillar ritual, help needed
	<Bs683v.JK0@acsu.buffalo.edu>

Shawn quotes Marc quoting BranArthur:
>>IMO, forms without context are forms without power.
> 
>I _dare_ you to look a Chaos Magickian in the eye and say that...
 
He _could_ look one of them/us in the eye and try it ... :)

I agree with Bran: a form must have context.  But all a context need be
(IMO) is personal meaning.  A form with some sort of personal
significance, regardless of any other context, can have the power of
directing the will of the soul to which it is significant.  IE, some
form (say, a "magick word") need have no power when Bran says it in a
given situation, but when I say it, it may have significance to me, thus
acting to direct/unleash my magickal power "in accord with Will."

Yes a context is necessary, but yes, it can be personal, not universal, IMO ...

yours in eternal chaos,
-shawn
From: farris@ruhets.rutgers.edu (Lorenzo Farris)
Newsgroups: alt.magick
Subject: Re: The art of tarot
Summary: By the way, I have enjoyed using these decks.
Date: 22 Jul 92 22:06:52 GMT
Organization: Rutgers Univ., New Brunswick, N.J.

In article <Jul.22.17.46.21.1992.16532@ruhets.rutgers.edu>,
farris@ruhets.rutgers.edu (Lorenzo Farris) (me!) writes:

> I find personally that the Voyager deck doesn't work for me.  I have
> ....[lot's of stuff about learning Tarot deleted]....
> 
I forgot to mention, out of my 15 or so decks (more stuff to drain my
bucks) I have regularly used the Mythic Tarot, Rider-Waite,
Universal-Waite (my favorite for a long time), Robert Wang's version
of the Golden-Dawn Tarot, and my current favorite is the Thoth deck.
I have learned from looking at others, but they didn't click with me
for readings.  And I am sure there are others I would enjoy but
haven't seen yet. But again, your choice of cards is a very personal
thing.

 I love you all, whether you like it or not.
 			Lorenzo
 
 farris@ruhets.rutgers.edu
Newsgroups: alt.magick