HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: hillel@cbnewsf.cb.att.com (hillel.e.markowitz)
Subject: Re: What is Jewish religion? (long...)
Organization: AT&T Federal Systems
Date: Wed, 22 Jul 1992 19:52:57 GMT

In article <14kclbINNeoc@darkstar.UCSC.EDU> sutin@ra.ucsc.edu (Brian Sutin) writes:
>In article <1992Jul22.183547.16457@cbfsb.cb.att.com> hillel@cbnewsf.cb.att.com (hillel.e.markowitz) writes:
>->In article <14k5hgINNe7c@darkstar.UCSC.EDU> sutin@helios.ucsc.edu (Brian Sutin) writes:
>->>
>->>Could you please explain why cannibalism would appear wrong to a cannibal?
>->>If I can gain strength by eating my neighbor, why should I not do so?
>->>
>->The question as phrased is nonsense in the literal meaning of the
>->term.  The question at hand is *Jewish* belief.  I would demand a
>->cannibal stop practicing as a cannibal because it is objectively
>->wrong and the cannibal beliefs are wrong.  I would not try to argue
>->from inside those beliefs.
>
>Why are cannibal beliefs wrong for a cannibal?  Obviously they are wrong
>for a Jew, but to attampt to correct the cannibal would be proseletyzing.

So?  THis is not alt.cannibalism.  Telling someone who is doing
wrong that he is wrong is correct behavior.  For Jews, correct
behavior is the Jewish law.  Correct behavior for a nonJew are the
seven laws of Noah.

>
>->Similarly, a Jew should follow the Jewish principles because they
>->are right and were given by G-d, not because of any "tradition",
>->"culture", or "history" [...]
>
>I disagree.  A Jew should follow Jewish law because of the covenant of
>Israel with G-d.  I'd call that "contract law."  Perhaps the laws

That's what I said, because G-d gave them.

>encompassed by the covenant would be abhorent to a cannibal.  How do you
>know thay are "right?"

Obvious - G-d said so.  If G-d hadn't said so, we wouldn't have
been obligated to follow them in the first place.

>
>Brian Sutin				sutin@helios.ucsc.edu

_______________________________________________________________
| Hillel Markowitz        |    Im ain ani li mi li             |
| H_Markowitz@att.com     |    Veahavta Leraiecha Kamocha      |
|_________________________|____________________________________|
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
From: stephenp@cix.compulink.co.uk (Stephen Phillips)
Subject: Re: What is Jewish religion? (long...)
Cc: stephenp@cix.compulink.co.uk
Reply-To: stephenp@cix.compulink.co.uk
Date: Wed, 22 Jul 1992 14:12:00 +0000


> +From         : faigin@aero.org (Daniel P. Faigin)
> +Subject      : Re: What is Jewish religion? (long...)

> >>Reform is steadily moving towards tradition and practice. You've got Hebrew
> >>in the service; you got both a Reader's and a Mourner's Kaddish (you used to
> >>only have one).
> 
> >  Proof perfect that Reform does not know where it is, and the searching Jew
> >  ought to be aware of this.
> 
> Alternate interpretation: Proof that Reform is a young movement compared to
> traditional Judaism, and is learning the importance of tradition.
> 
> Daniel

It sounds like you've made out a good case for reverting to
"traditional" Judaism.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Stephen Phillips                Tel: 44-895-442141
Burch Phillips & Co.            Fax: 44-895-421231
63a Station Road
West Drayton
Middlesex
UB7 7LR
United Kingdom                  stephenp@compulink.co.uk

Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
From: david@bourbon.ee.tulane.edu (David Kaufmann)
Subject: Re: society as the basis for religion (was Re: What is Jewish religion?)
Nntp-Posting-Host-[nntpd-9644]: bourbon
Organization: E.E. Dept., Tulane University, New Orleans, LA
Date: Thu, 23 Jul 1992 05:27:47 GMT

In article <LERNER.92Jul21174434@division.cs.columbia.edu> lerner@cs.columbia.edu (Michah Lerner) writes:
>Well, here we are again.  The term "ultra-orthodox" is horrible and derogatory,
>as if it says "excessively".  How about just "Orthodox"?  Is there a better
>term?
>
How about "Jew"?

David Kaufmann
INTERNET:	david@bourbon.ee.tulane.edu
From: mannj@acf9.nyu.edu (Jordan Mann)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
Subject: Re: Refrigerators In "Stranger Among Us" (SPOILER)
Date: 28 Jul 92 17:17:19 GMT
Article-I.D.: acf9.mannj.712343839
Organization: New York University

mannj@acf9.nyu.edu (Jordan Mann) writes:

>schwartz@nynexst.com (Steven Schwartz) writes:

>>[...] horen@rs.com (Jonathan B. Horen) writes:
>>> [...] dsg@cbnewsm.cb.att.com (david.s.green) writes:
>>> >
>>> >I heard that one of the original suggestions for the title was:
>>> >
>>> >"Dances With Jews"
>>> 
>>> No, no; that's:
>>> 
>>> "Dances with Wolffs"

>>Anyone for "Fried Green Latkes"?

>One of the critics, I forget which, suggested "Vitness".

Sorry I didn't think of this when I made my 1st post, but how about
"Guess Who's Coming for Sholosh-seudos (seudah shlishit)" ?

--

Jordan Mann at NYU      (mannj@cims.nyu.edu)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
From: rivk@quads.uchicago.edu (nora gayle rivkis)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
Subject: Re: Anti-Orthodoxy (was Re: O-C-R debate)
Date: 31 Jul 92 16:48:51 GMT
Reply-To: rivk@midway.uchicago.edu
Organization: University of Chicago Computing Organizations

In article <1992Jul31.122057.16621@cbnewsl.cb.att.com> saal@cbnewsl.cb.att.com (samuel.saal) writes:
>In article <1992Jul30.042915.10187@midway.uchicago.edu>
>rivk@midway.uchicago.edu writes:
>
>>In article <9207282134.AA28097@ptms_dev.sbi.com>
><gertler@ptms_dev.sbi.com (User - Don Gertler)> writes:
>
>
>>>not transmitted as directly.  They feel that one is not obligated to
>>>observe (all) the dictates of the system as it was handed down through
>>>the generations.
>
>>Yes and no, at least from what I was taught. (I've been told by people
>>like Mr. Faigin that my congregation's branch of Reform is not all that
>>typical, so I have to keep putting the caveats in.) We feel as strongly
>                                                        ^^^^
>>as you do that Torah is directly G-d's laws and must be followed absolutely.
>>We not only think it's unnecessary, however, to follow "the dictates of
>>the system as it was handed down through the generations", we feel it is
>                                                               ^^^^
>>actively *wrong*, as it involves omission of what we consider the correct
>>and necessary interpretations of existing, absolute laws. Call it a form
>>of fundamentalism if you will; it's probably a more accurate term than
>>true Reform. 
>
>On what do you base this feeling other than emotion?  What does it say
>about your earlier claim of adhering to a logical system?

I was making a comparison to the article I was answering, by using the same
terminology as the article Iw as answering used. Check above and you'll see;
you might have done better at discrediting me if you removed the evidence
first. And I already said that my axioms, like everybody's, are not chosen
according to logic; if you try to choose your axioms logically you will end
up with the Cartesian theorem and nowhere else, since logic will not get
you anywhere you didn't start in the first place. What it will do is tell
you whether something is really a part of the set you started with or not;
which is, I believe, what halacha has been trying to do for some time.

>Sam Saal      homxb!saal OR saal@homxb.att.com

	-Nora
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
From: warren@nysernet.org (Warren Burstein)
Subject: Re: jewish urban legend
Reply-To: warren@nysernet.org
Organization: Mail to News Gateway at Wang Labs
Date: 29 Jul 92 00:20:32 GMT

In <1992Jul28.152427.14588@alchemy.chem.utoronto.ca> jgoldber@alchemy.chem.utoronto.ca (Joel Goldberg) writes:

>   I've heard it twice now as a true story.

I've heard that shaatnez has the same etymology as POSH.
-- 
/|/-\/-\       The entire ***		Jerusalem
 |__/__/_/     is a very narrow gazelle.
 |warren@      But the Kibo
/ nysernet.org is not hungry at all.
Organization: The American University - University Computing Center
Date: Sunday, 26 Jul 1992 10:22:43 EDT
From: RABBI CHARLES ARIAN <CARIAN@auvm.american.edu>
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
Subject: Re: Kosher insects (was: Re: 5% bugs in ketchup!)
 <1992Jul26.021108.17434@msuinfo.cl.msu.edu>

Certain types of locusts are kosher.

I had heard it was the Yemenites, not the Ethiopians, who had an ancient
tradition enabling them to distinguish between kosher and non-kosher
locusts. I heard that one of the kosher types had a certain Hebrew
letter on its belly.

I don't know if they taste like chicken or not; nor if they are fleishig
or parve. You can't live without eating locusts?
From: hubey@pilot.njin.net (Hubey)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.turkish
Subject: Ancient Civilizations   (Was  Re: Europeans Stunk
Date: 31 Jul 92 03:07:40 GMT
Organization: Rutgers Univ., New Brunswick, N.J.



A follow up to the ancient technology etc...

from;

Extraordinary Origins of Everyday Things, Charles Panati, Harper and
Row Publishers, 1987


p. 245
			---------------------
...By 3500 BC, the Sumerians in the Tigris-Euphrates valley had 
developed virtually all of our modern methods of administering drugs. They
used gargles, inhalations,, suppositories, enemas, poultices, snuffs,
decoctions, infusions, pills, troches, lotions, ointments and plasters.

The first drug catalogue, or pharmacopoeia, was written at that time by
an unknown Sumerian physician. Preserved in cuneiform script on a single
clay tablet at the names of dozens of drugs to treat ailments that still
afflict us today. As a gargle, salt dissolved in water; as a general
disinfectant for wounds, soured wine; as an astringetn, potassium 
nitrate, obtained from the nitrogenous waste products in urine. And to 
relieve a fever, pulverized willow bark, nature's equivalent of aspirin.

The Egyptians added to the ancient medicine chest.

The Ebers Papyrus, a scroll dating from 1900 BC and named after the
German Egyptologist Georg Ebers, reveals the trial and error 
know-how acquired by the early Egyptian physicians. Constipation was
treated with a laxative of ground senna pods and castor oil; for
indigestion, a chew of peppermint leaves and carbonates (known today
as antacids); and to numb the pain of tooth extraction, Egyptian
doctors temporarily stupified a patient with ethyl alcohol.

The scroll also provides a rare glimpse into the hierarchy of ancient
drug preparation. The 'chief of the preparers of drugs' was the
equivalent of a head pharmacist, who supervised the 'collectors of
drugs', field workers who gathered essential minerals and herbs.....

The modern era of pharmacology began in the sixteenth century, ushered
by the first major discoveries in chemistry....

...but centuries would pass before the superstition was displaced by
scientific fact.
-- 

	mark	


   hubey@pilot.njin.net                   hubey@apollo.montclair.edu
 ...!rutgers!pilot!hubey                  hubey@logos.montclair.edu
Xref: sparky soc.culture.turkish:8080 talk.politics.mideast:17301 talk.politics.soviet:6427 soc.culture.greek:6863 soc.culture.europe:6662 soc.history:6742
From: han@anadolu.michigan.com (hasan.b.mutlu)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.turkish,talk.politics.mideast,talk.politics.soviet,soc.culture.greek,soc.culture.europe,soc.history
Subject: Re: In Its Entire History Greece Has Never Been A Democracy - Except...
Date: 27 Jul 92 20:16:55 GMT





<1992Jul28.044403.21642@wam.umd.edu>
yiannis@wam.umd.edu (IOANNIS VELISSARAKOS  ATHINA-HELLAS)

>	Mutlu, I was just talking with a friend of mine on the phone
>when I got your message concerning the democracy in Greece. 

Here's a phrase we hear a lot: 'You can't trust anybody anymore.'
They're all out to rip you off, right? It ain't necessarily so.

>I started
>reading it outloud to her and her eply was:
>	"THE BOY IS REALLY SCREWED UP"   !!! :))))

Olly-olly-oxen-free. Well, I guess the Greek educational system 
is also in a shambles. The so-called 'cradle of democracy' Greece 
had only 17.5 years of democracy in its entire history. Before 
1974 Greece was ruled either by military dictators or monarchs. 
Greece adopted democracy in 1974 when the ruling military junta
fell as a result of Turkish intervention in Cyprus. In contrast 
Turkiye, three short termed military interventions withstanding, 
had multi-party democracy since 1950, for 32 years.

By the way, did she know that the Greek-PKK collaboration is revealed 
in a report published on December 29, 1989 in Eleftheria Dis Gnomis, a 
Greek Cypriot newspaper? The paper admitted that 
              
 'two of the terrorists killed in PKK raids to Southeastern
  Turkiye were Greeks.'

A PKK guerilla who sought refuge with the people of Turkiye, Fatih
Erbas, confessed that 20 Greek Cypriots terrorists were waiting 
for spring to hit Turkiye with PKK forces.

PKK chief Ocalan's brother Osman Ocalan appears to be providing the
liaison between Apo, Cyprus and Damascus under the code name
'Ferhat.' 

Shall I go on?

Hasan B-) Mutlu

                     'Kill Turks and Kurds wherever you find them 
                      and in whatever circumstances you find them. 
                      Turkish children also should be killed as 
                      they form a danger to the Armenian nation.' 
                                     (Hamparsum Boyadjian - 1914)

Xref: sparky soc.culture.turkish:8016 talk.politics.mideast:17180 talk.politics.soviet:6363 soc.culture.greek:6781 soc.culture.europe:6615 soc.history:6674
Organization: University of Illinois at Chicago
Date: Friday, 31 Jul 1992 13:36:57 CDT
From: <U15231@uicvm.uic.edu>
Newsgroups: soc.culture.turkish,soc.culture.pakistan
Subject: CFV:soc.culture.bosna-herzgvna








                         1st Call For Votes
                         ==================

                     SOC.CULTURE.BOSNA-HERZGVNA
                     ==========================



    Charter
    =======

    Soc.culture.bosna-herzgvna is intended to provide a panel for discussion
    about all aspects of history, culture, social and religious traditions,
    economy, and politics of the newly independent state of Bosnia and
    Herzegovina.

    As the strugle against the agression and for independence, freedom,
    and human dignity continues in Bosnia and Herzegovina, the proposed
    news group will also serve as the vehicle for the preservation and
    disemination of the truth about this proud country, its citizens, and
    their moral values.

    The status of the group is to be unmoderated.





    How to Vote
    ===========

    To vote in favor of soc.culture.bosna-herzgvna send an email message to

                U15231@UICVM.UIC.EDU

    with a word yes somewhere in the subject of your message.


    To vote against soc.culture.bosna-herzgvna send an email message to

                U15231@UICVM.UIC.EDU

    with a word no somewhere in the subject of your message.

    Yes means that you DO WANT soc.culture.bosna-herzgvna to be created.
    No means that you DO NOT WANT soc.culture.bosna-herzgvna to be created.




    Voting Period
    =============

    The vote begins immediately and will end on August 29 at 11:59:59
    pm EST.





Prepared by netters from Bosnia and Herzegovina.

Xref: sparky soc.culture.turkish:7977 talk.politics.mideast:17096 soc.culture.greek:6748
From: cc433336@LANCE.ColoState.Edu (Constantinos A. Caroutas)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.turkish,talk.politics.mideast,soc.culture.greek,soc.cult
Subject: Creating a Kill File (was Re: It Is True That The Goal Of Our Stru...)
Date: 23 Jul 92 17:39:21 GMT
Organization: Colorado State U. Engineering College

In article <5082@transfer.stratus.com> markc@eomer.sw.stratus.com (Mark Christensen) writes:
>Can someone tell me how to create a kill file so that I
>don't have to read all this Mutlu stuff?  I'm new
>to this.  Thanks.

If you use rn, then right after reading this, type

/mutlu/hK

A kill file will be created and will mark as read all articles with the
string 'mutlu' in their headers. Searches will be case independent and so
articles with strings like 'Mutlu' or 'mUTlU' will also be killed.
--
Constantinos A. Caroutas
Xref: sparky soc.culture.turkish:7953 talk.politics.soviet:6323 soc.culture.europe:6563 talk.politics.mideast:17060 soc.culture.greek:6731 soc.history:6609
From: ko@cns.umist.ac.uk (Kutluk Ozguven)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.turkish,talk.politics.soviet,soc.culture.europe,talk.politics.mideast,soc.culture.greek,soc.history
Subject: Re: Mehmed II vs. Count Dracula (was: The Ottoman Empire Was More Like...)
Date: 22 Jul 92 09:27:40 GMT
Organization: UMIST, Manchester, England.

sxoinas@csd.uch.gr (Sxoinas ioannis 150) writes:

>c34657b@saha.hut.fi (Tuomas Viljanen) writes:

>>In article <1992Jul14.102257.29728@ulrik.uio.no> suley@xantos.uio.no (Suleyman Kondakci) writes:
>>>In article <1992Jul14.053331.23673@athena.mit.edu>, ankleand@mtl.mit.edu
>>>(Andrew Karanicolas) writes:
>>>> In article <1992Jul6.124248.14000@cns.umist.ac.uk> ko@cns.umist.ac.uk
>>>(Kutluk Ozguven) writes:
>>>>  
>>>> No, the Ottomans were certainly not heavenly angels by any metric.

>>>	If not Ottomans were heavenly angels then you could not speek
>>>	your own language, you could not practice your own culture by now.

>>Romanian Frankish, perhaps ? Or Byzantine ?

>Excuse me? What do you mean?

"I did it my way-escu"

Kutluk
Newsgroups: soc.culture.turkish,talk.politics.soviet,talk.politics.mideast,soc.culture.greek,soc.culture.europe,soc.history
From: hallam@zeus02.desy.de (Phillip M. Hallam-Baker)
Subject: Re: The 'Mongol's Burden' (destruction of civilization)
Reply-To: hallam@zeus02.desy.de
Organization: DESY ZEUS Central Data Acquisition
Date: Mon, 27 Jul 1992 19:50:32 GMT

In your article, is the Fuller you refer to Buckminster Fuller? I rather
doubt that Tedrick would like his conclusions in Critical Paths which
would seem to blow Tedricks aryan supremacist views sky high. (But I
don't think he's got to that part of the book so far).

Also I think that it is a bit unfair to have a go at the specifics
Fuller presented, the general point he was trying to get across was I
beleive more that our traditional Western view of history (and pre
history) is slanted politicaly. The fertile crescent is claimed as the
cradle of civilisation because it produced the religions that dominate
the West. Two thousand years of Chineese history are arbitrarily dubbed
"mythology", originaly because they would predate the accepted date of
creation, later because the "established" view is prefered. I took the
case to be more that it is necessary to examine why cultures are keen to
accept one view of history rather than trying to prove a certain
chronology absolutely.


Phill Hallam-Baker
Xref: sparky soc.culture.turkish:8114 talk.politics.mideast:17382 talk.politics.soviet:6448 soc.culture.greek:6889 soc.culture.europe:6685 soc.history:6786
From: han@anadolu.michigan.com (hasan.b.mutlu)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.turkish,talk.politics.mideast,soc.culture.greek,soc.culture.europe,soc.rights.human,soc.history
Subject: Barbarism Is The Standard Of Moral Conduct, Determining Armenian...
Date: 23 Jul 92 22:29:33 GMT






<199207241147@AYTOKPATWP-PWMAIWN>

>   Mutlu, your time is coming !  

Now you became a terribly important fixture in my life.

>You and your like scum is going to swim in blood - your own blood - 

That's what your grandfathers sang in 1914. 

Extracts from the November 1914 issue of the "official Armenian Gazette
Huntchak," published in Paris, France, by the Armenian Revolutionary 
Committee of the "Armenian Nation." This was a "call to arms."

 "...The entire Armenian nation will join forces, moral and material,
  and waving the sword of revolution, will enter this World conflict...
  as comrades in arms of the Triple Entente, and particularly Russia.
  They will cooperate with the allies, making full use of all political
  and revolutionary means for the final victory of Armenia, Cilicia,
  Caucasus, Azerbayjan...heroes who will sacrifice their lives for the
  great cause of Armenia...Armenians proud to shed their blood for the
  cause of Armenia..."

And of course,

Source: Alan Cowell, "U.S. and Greece in Dispute on Terror," The New York
Times, June 27, 1987, p.4.

Excerpt:
A dispute developed today between Athens and Washington over United States
intelligence reports saying that Athens had, for several months, conducted
negotiations with the terrorist known as Abu Nidal. 

In Washington, State Department officials said that when Administration
officials learned about the contacts, the State Department drafted a
strongly worded demarche. The officials also expressed unhappiness about
Greece's dealings with ASALA, the Armenian Liberation Army, which has
carried out terrorist attacks against Turks...


Source: The British Broadcasting Corporation, Summary of World Broadcasts,
July 6, 1987: Part 4-A: The Middle East, p. ME/8612/A/1.

Excerpt:
The Israeli secret service, Mossad, is reported to have acquired significant
information in connection with the camps set up in the Troodos mountains in
Cyprus for the training of militants of the PKK and ASALA [Armenian Secret
Army for the Liberation of Armenia].... The same sources stated that Abu 
Nidal's special advisers are giving military training to the PKK and ASALA
militants in the camps...

Mossad revealed that the Armenian National Movement, which is known as the
MNA, has opened liaison offices in Nicosia, Athens and Tripoli in order to
meet the needs of the camps.

Hasan B-) Mutlu

                     'Kill Turks and Kurds wherever you find them 
                      and in whatever circumstances you find them. 
                      Turkish children also should be killed as 
                      they form a danger to the Armenian nation.' 
                                     (Hamparsum Boyadjian - 1914)


Newsgroups: soc.culture.turkish
From: errol@leland.Stanford.EDU (errol craig)
Subject: Gold Metal
Organization: DSG, Stanford University, CA 94305, USA
Date: Wed, 29 Jul 92 16:22:13 GMT

	Weightlifting:
	-60kg

	1. Naim Suleymanoglu, Turkey 320.0 kilos
	2. Nikolaj Pesjalov, Bulgaria 305.0
	3. He Yingqiang, China 295.0
Xref: sparky soc.culture.turkish:8158 talk.politics.mideast:17454 talk.politics.soviet:6475 soc.culture.greek:6926 soc.culture.europe:6713 soc.history:6837
From: han@anadolu.michigan.com (hasan.b.mutlu)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.turkish,talk.politics.mideast,talk.politics.soviet,soc.culture.greek,soc.culture.europe,soc.history
Subject: Nazi Armenians Were Of Service To Germans In Arab Countries As Well.
Date: 30 Jul 92 01:46:04 GMT





 
Nazi Armenians were of service to Germans in Arab countries as 
well. As Uzun put it, one well-known case which received a lot 
of media-coverage involved two Nazi Armenian agents which were
dropped over Syria by Italian war planes. The mission of the agents
was to mingle among the Armenian population in Syria and to acquire
relevant information for the German Wehrmacht on the allied forces
in the area.[1] Nazi Armenians also helped German propaganda efforts
in Arab countries designed to promote pro-Nazi sentiments among the
French- and British-ruled Arab populations. Beirut had traditionally
been strong-hold of the Nazi Armenians and until very recently it was
the center of international Armenian terrorism. 

In Russia General Dro (the Butcher), the architect of the Turkish
genocide in WWI, was working closely with the German Secret 
Service. He entered the war zone with his own men and acquired
important intelligence about the Soviets. His experience with
the Turkish genocide in the Armenian Dictatorship made him an 
invaluable source for the Germans.[2]


[1] Meyer, Berkian, ibid., p. 150. 
[2] Meyer, Berkian, ibid., p. 113; Patrick von zur Muehlen,
    ibid., p. 84.

               (to be continued...)

Hasan B-) Mutlu

                     'Kill Turks and Kurds wherever you find them 
                      and in whatever circumstances you find them. 
                      Turkish children also should be killed as 
                      they form a danger to the Armenian nation.' 
                                     (Hamparsum Boyadjian - 1914)


Xref: sparky soc.culture.turkish:7997 talk.politics.mideast:17141 talk.politics.soviet:6352 soc.culture.greek:6766 soc.culture.europe:6605 soc.history:6657