From: skillian@ux4.cso.uiuc.edu (Seth James Killian)
Subject: Re: SFII-CE Match-UPs and Ratings
Organization: University of Illinois at Urbana
Date: Sat, 12 Dec 1992 08:35:00 GMT

caine@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (Lord of the Sith) writes:

>inkblot@leland.Stanford.EDU (Thomas Calvin Cannon) writes:

>>>[My remarks deleted...]

>>Really?   I think it's the other way around; Sagat has a slight advantage 
>>against Ken, and falls a bit behind Ryu.  The deciding factor is the
>>difference between the two's fireballs;  Ken's recovery time is so slow
>>that Sagat can jump over and smack him without having to anticipate the
>>fireball.  Against Ryu, Sagat gets DPed.  So, a defensive Sagat can take out
>>Ken without too much trouble.  

>>ON ANOTHER NOTE...
>>------------------

>>Now that the 'Ryu fireball' thread has died down, how's about discussing 
>>Sagat's low 'tigerball' trap.  I tried it for the first time today, and
>>it seems to be just as (if not more) effective than Ryu's trap.  It's basic
>>execution is exactly like Ryu's (i.e. stand about 3/4 of the screen away
>>from your opponent when he's in the corner and assault him with a barrage
>>of low tigers.)  Any comments?

>  Ok.  About Ken.  After some more thought, I would have to say that I 
>*dislike* fighting Ken with Sagat.  I don't like fighting against the DP of
>his, but I like fighting with it.  To me, Ryu is an easier fight.  I happen
>to play the defensive Sagat, and the only thing that really troubles me is
>the "deep" uppercut.  Once I get that down, I should be more dangerous.
>However, it easy to fall into playing a pattern Sagat, and some Ryu players
>here (yeah, you Seth) are figuring this out.  Grrrrr...

	Hehehe...  While the Sagat pattern can be *very* tough to beat if
	executed perfectly, any set pattern can be beat IMO.  My reasoning
	is basically that pattern play (like you see to a greater or lesser
	extent in most master Sagats) necessarily breeds a certain inflex-
	ibility too.  By shaking things up with varied attacks and the 
	occasional tick, you can rattle a lot of Sagats badly enough to win.
	Sagat still has the advantage (IMO), and I think as Sagat's learn
	to let go of the pattern once it has been broken, you will see more
	Ken/Ryu's go down in flames.  

>  Fireball trap?  I don't think so.  His FB speed is amazing, but the low
>firebird is way easy to avoid for Ken/Ryu.  Nothing a short HK can't fix.
>Guile has his problems...two low firebirds usually do the trick (roundhouse).
>Most players that can propel their bodies (ie. Honda, Bison, etc.) also
>should have any problems in escaping...  The FB trap usually gets started,
>but it is broken by mixing up high- and low-tigers.  I doubt it can be
>sustained as Ryu's can.  Other comments?

	A Sagat FB trap?  I don't think so.  You can toss a slow FB followed
	by a fast one (both crouching) and catch a guy who thinks he can 
	jump in time, but after that, you are free, end of "trap".  Like
	Caine mentioned, a short HK will get you out of this easily, Sagat's
	recovery time is waaay too long to really trap Ken and Ryu, although
	it can be very annoying at times.  Sagat's traps for Ken/Ryu are just
	the tried but true crouching FB, late TU, and the FB sweep out of the
	air thing.  For those of you who do not know, Sagat has sufficient 
	range to roundhouse sweep Ken/Ryu out of the air (that is before they
	hit the ground) if timed correctly.  I think Sagat's main advantage
	lies in his natural strengths against the commonly dominating charac-
	ters (Guile, Ryu).  That's it.  He is still Bison bait:)
>Ken is #1.
>Caine Schneider

	Seth Killian

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