HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: leej@sgi.com (Lee Jones)
Newsgroups: rec.gambling
Subject: Re: Should I return the money back?
Date: 25 Jan 1993 20:14:38 GMT
Organization: Silicon Graphics, Inc.
NNTP-Posting-Host: diver.asd.sgi.com

In article <1993Jan24.011118.11617@ultb.isc.rit.edu> jsvrc@rc.rit.edu (J A Stephen Viggiano) writes:
>
>I think most everybody is as interested in the moral obligation as in the
>legal . . . . Bravo to the original poster for doing the right thing!

I agree.  From what I know of Nevada casion employment standards, the 
cashier might well have been forced to pay the difference, and/or lost
his/her job.

One of the cashiers at Garden City here in San Jose recently gave me 
$100 too much.  I figured it out about 20 ft. away from the cage.  When 
I went back and pointed out her mistake, we went through the identical
procedure (they ran and checked it on the tape).  Again, I got profuse thanks
from both the cashier (she asked me to take the contents of her tip
basket which I of course declined) and the cage manager.  Unfortunately,
they didn't offer me a free meal at Garden City (man, that prime rib woulda
been *good*).

Regards, Lee


Newsgroups: rec.gambling
From: rpark@stam.QE.Bell.CA (Richard Park)
Subject: Re: Easy money!
Reply-To: rpark@stam.bell.ca
Organization: CER, Bell Canada
Date: Wed, 20 Jan 1993 15:42:31 GMT

In article <zlsiida.771@fs1.mcc.ac.uk>, zlsiida@fs1.mcc.ac.uk (dave budd) writes:
|> At Waikato greyhound track in Wellington, New Zealand, last week, the Tote 
|> continued to accept bets for 3 minutes after one of the races was over.....
|> 36 people were smart enough to bet on the winning tricast (1-2-3 in correct 
|> order), which paid out 3000pounds.
|> 153 people bet on the WRONG dog!
|> 
|>             All creatures will make merry   (on pain of death)
|>     Dave Budd, MCC, Oxford Rd, Manchester, England    (44|0)61-275-6033  
Did the 153 people bet thinking it was the next race?
SO what happened to the 36 lucky people, did they end up cashing their tickets?
Wouldn't the additonal trifecta tickets decrease the payout??
-- 
Richard Park
From: hunt@shy.umd.edu (Brian Hunt)
Newsgroups: rec.gambling
Subject: triple-whatever BJ (was Re: 100% SURE THING)
Date: 22 Jan 93 04:59:32 GMT

freedman@cs.colostate.edu (keith freedman) writes:
>The basic idea on both is not to bust.  Figure anything is better than
>busting since you quickly loose 3 times and loose all hope of the
>dealer even busting once.  Nice is when you loose the first hand and
>win the next two (so your still ahead).  Nicer is to get BJ and get
>paid 1.5 X3.

I wouldn't be too paranoid about busting--in a game where you play one
hand against the dealer's one up card and three different hole cards,
your basic strategy should be the same as in regular blackjack (I'm
assuming you want to maximize expectation, and that the deal is from a
shoe so there's no single-deck effects to worry about).  Granted you
may find it more exciting to (let's say) stand on 14 when dealer is
showing 10, hoping the dealer will bust on at least one hand, than to
run the risk of busting and becoming a spectator for the rest of the
hand, but moneywise you're not doing yourself a favor (keep in mind
that if you stand, your chances of winning all three hands are rather
miniscule, whereas if you hit you afford yourself a much better chance
of winning all three, as well as a better chance of losing all three).

If the dealer has three different up cards for his/her three hands,
then of course strategy becomes much more complicated, but I still
wouldn't worry excessively about busting.  Again, being aggressive and
hitting 12-16 when dealer's up cards look tough to beat should tend to
increase your chances of a big win as well as a big loss.

Brian Hunt
hunt@ipst.umd.edu
From: stank@cbnewsl.cb.att.com (Stan Krieger)
Newsgroups: rec.gambling
Subject: Re: Las Vegas Question
Date: 26 Jan 93 14:25:03 GMT
Article-I.D.: cbnewsl.1993Jan26.142503.2178
Organization: Summit NJ

>Do the casinoes in Vegas accept travelers checks at the tables?
>Or does one have to go to the cashier or change window first?
>
>does it vary from casino to casino?

I had to go to the cashier window to cash a Travelers Check in Reno.

Incidentally, I had a problem with that.  She asked for my drivers
license as ID, and after I showed it to her, and signed the check,
she mumbled something about a photo ID, which I didn't have (in NJ,
photo drivers licenses are optional).  She said she asked for a photo
ID; I answered that all she asked for was a drivers license and that
I had already countersigned the check; meanwhile, it was clear that she
was not aware that photo drivers licenses were not standard in all
states.

She cashed the $20 check, but I learned to cash all my other Travelers
Checks elsewhere, and never let my cash get so low that I had to rely
on using a Travelers Check to pay for something.
-- 
Stan Krieger                 All opinions, advice, or suggestions, even
UNIX System Laboratories     if related to my employment, are my own.
Summit, NJ
smk@usl.com
From: gln@cs.arizona.edu (Gary L. Newell)
Newsgroups: rec.gambling
Subject: Re: Opinions on "Red Dog"?
Date: 22 Jan 93 21:21:30 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: U of Arizona CS Dept, Tucson

In article <74154@cup.portal.com>, Harv@cup.portal.com (Harv R Laser) writes:
> What's the general opinion of the group mind here on the card game
> known as "Red Dog" (also referred to as Acey Ducey, or In-Betweens,
> or Between the Sheets)? 

 I'm sure that someone with more exact knowledge than I can give you
the specifics but everything I have read indicates that it is a big-time
sucker bet intended to draw people who are totally clueless about
playing cards and who would otherwise be too intimidated to play
blackjack for example. I have a book at home which gives the actual
house advantage but if memory serves it was well into the double digits.
I could be wrong but I sure seem to remember something like a 12 or 14%
advantage for the house. Anyone know for sure?


> But I found the game to be a fun time-waster. A huge number
> of lurkers stopped to watch and ask "What is that game?!" and a
> few times the table filled up to capacity, which made it a lot more
> fun, especially the few times the dealer hit a Red Dog (triples)
> and had to pay out 11-1 to seven players :)

 If the odds are as bad as what I read then I'd probably rather kill time
on a BJ table but I suppose for a change it isn't bad ( you certainly
don't have to do much thinking) though I'd rather try the double-down
stud that was discussed here recently.... 

> An initial draw of Ace - Duece (the widest possible spread, 
> Ace always being high) is about as close to a "sure thing" in this
> game, but it's also pretty amazing how often the third card
> comes up Ace or Duece, meaning a loss. Anyway, I just was curious
> if there are any other Red Dog fans in this group and if you have
> any good strategies/tips to offer. The game doesn't seem to have
> a lot of subtleties.. it's fairly simple minded. And very few
> casinos in Vegas offer it.. certainly no more than one Red Dog
> table at each place that did. 

 I saw one or two tables at Slots of Fun when I was there in december.
Not much action on them - they usually closed by 10PM and had only
a handful of folks on them before that.



			gln

> 
> Harv
From: joltman@raisin-nut.ai.mit.edu (T. Andy Frakes)
Newsgroups: rec.gambling
Subject: faq?
Date: 21 Jan 1993 16:46:17 GMT
Organization: MIT Artificial Intelligence Lab
Distribution: world
NNTP-Posting-Host: raisin-nut.ai.mit.edu


Pardon this faq, but is there a rec.gambling faq somewhere?

I'm intersted in worldwide locations for playing blackjack.

-Andy

-- 
================================================================
=             T. Andy Frakes (joltman@ai.mit.edu)              =
=                                                              =
= This user does not believe in smiley faces.  Insert your own =
================================================================
From: ST801904@brownvm.brown.edu
Newsgroups: rec.gambling
Subject: OVER-UNDER BLACKJACK at Foxwoods = Profitable?
Date: 26 Jan 93 18:08:17 GMT
Organization: Brown University - Providence, Rhode Island  USA
NNTP-Posting-Host: brownvm.brown.edu
X-News-Software: BNN via BNN_POST v1.0 beta

Hello... This is my first post to this group, though I've been reading the
group for a while.

I just went to the Foxwoods casino in Ledyard, Conn.  Nice place.  What I'm
really interested in is their over/under 13 blackjack game (8 deck).  The
FAQ gives a scheme with A234 = +1 and 10 = -1 and says that the deck becomes
favorable for counts of +2 and above or -4 and below, and that one should take
over 13 with a count of +3 and above, and under 13 with a count of -4 and
below.

Does anyone have a set of strategy adjustments for this counting scheme?
Also, the FAQ gives an expected gain of 1.5% or more for 6-deck games -- what
would the exp. gain for an 8-decker be, and at what betting spreads?
(Foxwoods cuts off 1.5-2 decks -- that makes a big difference too)

I am normally a Hi-Opt 1 player.  I would assume that I could simply play
the Hi-Opt 1 game and then place over bets when the count is high and under
bets when the count is low, with a negative adjustment for the ace side count.
But at which Hi-Opt count levels do these side bets become profitable?  And
is this as good as using the Over-Under counting scheme from the FAQ?
Can I find the answers to these ?'s in the "outrageously priced" Over/Under
Reoprt by Snyder mentioned in the FAQ?

(As an aside, I varied my bets from $2 to $40 quite obviously and nobody cared.
Also, the dealers were agonizingly slow (3 times slower than Vegas dealers,
IMHO) and made many mistakes (a good way to increase your expected gain if
you pay attention -- I made about $10 from over-paying dealers!))

- Geoff Talvola
  st801904@brownvm.brown.edu
Newsgroups: rec.gambling
From: lizakre@snybufva.cs.snybuf.edu (Rob Lizak Jr.)
Subject: Development in Vegas...
Organization: J. Random Misconfigured Site
Date: Sun, 24 Jan 1993 15:07:00 GMT
X-Posted-From: snybufva.cs.snybuf.edu
NNTP-Posting-Host: sol.ctr.columbia.edu

Hello rec.gamblers!

   I will be making my reservations to head back to Vegas at the end of August
(our travel agent has told us the best deals for August will be available March
1, hopefully :) ).  We will be staying at the Rio once again...  anyone who
rags on the Rios location obviously has never stayed there... the place is just
that nice!  (I mean the rooms guys, not the cocktail waitresses, even though
they are beyond nice  :)  ).  Anyways, my mom asked me to post a message asking
about the developments on the strip, the theme park?  or other things going on. 
If anyone can provide me with some information of whats going on in development
in Vegas, please let me know, I'd really appreciate it.

Thanks!
Rob Lizak Jr.

lizakre@snybufva.cs.snybuf.edu
lizakre@snybufva.bitnet
From: GC.SUL@forsythe.stanford.edu (Sullys Maze)
Newsgroups: rec.gambling
Subject: Re: THE DIVINE MASTERS *AGAINST* gambling
Date: 26 Jan 1993 10:47:17 -0800
Organization: Stanford University
Distribution: usa
NNTP-Posting-Host: morrow.stanford.edu

In article <1993Jan25.172151.3294@cnsvax.uwec.edu>,
mcelwre@cnsvax.uwec.edu writes:
>
>
>     Both "Eckankar" and "Sant Mat" (referred to in the following article)
>PROHIBIT their Initiates from ANY form of gambling:

Saint Matt had a bad year, I lost a ton betting on the Giants.

>
>
>                             THE DIVINE MASTERS

lots of good stuff deleted.  By the way I agree 100% and if only you
had posted a couple weeks ago I betcha $10 I wouldnda lost $60 at
Harvey's in Tahoe.

By the way, who is James Thorpe now and is he old enough yet to
go to Vegas, or at least write another sequel?

>                                           Robert E. McElwaine
>                                           2nd Initiate in Eckankar
>

                                 Michael R. Sullivan
                                 2nd Instance of Dennis Eckersly
From: erwin@bend.ucsd.edu (Sean Erwin)
Newsgroups: rec.gambling
Subject: Re: OVER-UNDER BLACKJACK at Foxwoods = Profitable?
Date: 27 Jan 1993 18:18:45 GMT
Organization: Linguistics Department, UCSD
NNTP-Posting-Host: bend.ucsd.edu

In article <1k3ul5INNo88@cat.cis.Brown.EDU> ST801904@brownvm.brown.edu () writes:
>I am normally a Hi-Opt 1 player.  I would assume that I could simply play
>the Hi-Opt 1 game and then place over bets when the count is high and under
>bets when the count is low, with a negative adjustment for the ace side count.
>But at which Hi-Opt count levels do these side bets become profitable?  And
>is this as good as using the Over-Under counting scheme from the FAQ?

No.  Here's what you do, if you want to get the max. advantage possible for
any BJ on the east coast:  Go to foxwoods.  Stand behind some player, and
keep the over/under count.  Don't bother playing through the shoe, you'll lose.
Then, when the Hi/Lo count goes favorable (remember those are values for *true
counts*, not running counts) near the end of the shoe, put a bet in the
appropriate circle.  At Foxwoods, you can bet on someone else's hand.  Since
you are only betting on the value of the first two cards, no amount of inept
playing on that player's behalf can lose you your money.  Of course, if you're
really daring, keep the normal count simultaneously, and bet behind a player's
bet when it gets good.  But be sure to pick someone who seems to have some idea
of basic strategy!

---Sean Erwin
Newsgroups: rec.gambling
From: messiah@nevada.edu (mw)
Subject: Re: Should I return the money back?
Organization: University of Nevada System Computing Services
Distribution: usa
Date: Sat, 23 Jan 1993 03:03:22 GMT

In article <1993Jan22.211914.26981@ucsu.Colorado.EDU> lien@ucsu.Colorado.EDU (LIEN FANG PEI) writes:

>On my last trip to Las Vegas, a cashier gave me $400     
>more than I cashed in because she miscounted a black $100
>chip as a pink $500 chip.

>Because I didn't want the cashier to have a big
>trouble, I gave the $400 back to the cashier after leaving
>the cashier for five minutes.  Her manager called the
>security department to check the video tape for
>verification.  Yes, it was on the tape.  So, they took the
>money back and I got a sensational thank for my honesty and
>a complimentary meal.

The fact that they gave you a complimentary meal shows some class
on their behalf cause lets face it, you could easily have pocketed
that money had you wanted to. It was not your error, and as they make
errors you could just as easily have made an error in the amount that
you thought you had cashed out, so there was no significant concern
for being challenged on it either. You were being a nice guy.

>I am just wondering what if I didn't return the $400?
>I am positively sure that I won't return the $400 if a
>dealer gives me a pink for a black.  But from a cashier, I
>am still not sure.

>Douglas Chang

Cashiers are supposed to be bonded for that kind of thing. I'm not
exactly sure about the details of such "bonding" but from what I
understand its the equivalent of an insurance against discrepancies
between what was taken in and what was paid out. 

Making up the balance at the cage for that particular shift would have
reaveled that there was a $400 discrepency, but if a dealer makes a 
mistake like that there's no way to track it down with an audit. The
only things that they can keep track of at the table games are what
goes down the "drop slot" and how much went to the table in "chip fills,"
after that everything else is obscured because players come and go with
chips to and from other tables. 

If a dealer paid out $400 too much it would be treated as a loss if no
one caught it, and no one would know the difference. It would probably
be on tape but there would be no reason to look for specifically that
error because there was no audit to point out what happened.

 
         _/     _/ _/_/_/_/ _/_/_/_/ _/_/_/_/ _/_/_/_/ 
       _/_/ _/_/ _/    _/ _/    _/ _/       _/    _/
     _/  _/ _/ _/_/_/_/ _/_/_/   _/       _/    _/   
   _/     _/ _/    _/ _/    _/ _/       _/    _/        |\     /|
 _/     _/ _/    _/ _/    _/ _/_/_/_/ _/_/_/_/          | ``''' |
                                                        \(O) (O)/
           messiah@redrock.nevada.edu                 __  \   /  __
 ----------------------------------------------------oooO--(_)--Oooo--
 





Newsgroups: rec.gambling
From: tdaniel@bluemoon.use.com (Terry McDaniel)
Subject: numbers please
Organization: Blue Moon BBS ((614) 868-998[024])
Date: Sat, 23 Jan 93 21:14:19 EST

Do any of you guys have Columbus, Ohio or 1-800 sports or gambling 
oriented numbers that are free?  Thanks to the feller who posted the 1800
PIK BAJA number, it is ni.  In Columbus, call (614)7945900-Scores Coast
to Coast Columbus, 7945901-Free pick line.  I have a couple others,
including a dumpy 800 number if I can find 'em.  Thanks for your help!

 This is from
     tdaniel@bluemoon.use.com
who doesn't have his (or her) own obnoxious signature yet
From: spx2rbr@thor.cf.ac.uk (Rhun Roberts)
Newsgroups: rec.gambling
Subject: HELP! HELP! BlackJack!
Date: 25 Jan 93 13:34:17 GMT
Organization: University of Wales College at Cardiff
X-Mailer: Cardiff Computing Maths PP Mail Open News Gateway

I have just got a book out from the library about the psychology of
gambling, and in it there was a 10 *10 box matrix describing the Basic
strategy for hard non-pair hands for blackjack. I have been playing the
game solidly over the weekend using 4 packs of cards, but don't seem to
be able to obtain convincing wins over the dealer.

Apparently there are two other matrices describing the best moves for
soft hands and for pairs (regarding doubling and splitting I presume).
  I would very much like to be able to make lots of money gambling
playing poker, since I  am a poor student, and there  is a sexy-looking
casino just down the road!


 My plea is for anyone out there who has had great success with
Blackjack to inform me of the best statistical moves to make when in
possession of soft hands or pairs.

    I cannot wait for any reply i might receive!

Thanks a lot

 Rhun.
Newsgroups: rec.gambling
From: ron@osf.org (Ron Birnbaum)
Subject: Re: Playing slots
Organization: Open Software Foundation
Date: Mon, 25 Jan 1993 17:01:31 GMT

In article <74150@cup.portal.com>, Harv@cup.portal.com (Harv R Laser) writes:
|> >
|> >Is there really a viable "slots strategy", other than continuously
|> >stuffing <coin denomination> into the machine, and hoping it pays off
|> >before your financial resources disappear?  Logic tells me no, but....


  Stick to progressive machines with appropriate payoffs - see the 
FAQ for details.

|> >
|> Well there are a couple other interesting slot tidbits... play
|> a machine to get a few coins to fall out. If the coins are real
|> warm, then they've been in the machine a long time, meaning the
|> machine's primed to spew its load soon. (Slots only pay out a
|> certain few hundreds of coins on a large jackpot, the rest of
|> the payout is handed to the (lucky) winner in cash by a casino
|> worker). If the coins come out stone cold, move to another machine.

  I thought that payoff history had NOTHING to do with the chances the
 machine was about to pay off. Each slot pull is completely random. A
 machine is just as likely to pay a jackpot if it paid one off 5 weeks
 ago or 5 minutes.

|> Or... hand some cash to one of the change women (they're ALWAYS
|> women, at EVERY casino, aren't they? Why is this :-) and tip her
|> and ask her to point you towards a machine that's primed and
|> ready. 

  They'll do anything for a tip!

|> I'll admit that neither of these "tips" has ever worked very well
|> for me at all.. I've played slots, from nickels to dollars at
|> dozens of Vegas casinos and never hit a jackpot over $50 or so.

  Hmmmm, hard to believe...

;-)

-Ron


|> 
|> Harv
Newsgroups: rec.gambling
From: brannon@ssd.comm.mot.com (Steve Brannon)
Subject: SuperBowl Sunday
Organization: Motorola
Date: Tue, 26 Jan 1993 16:43:44 GMT


I will be in Vegas this weekend for the SuperBowl and was wondering where a
good place to watch the game is. Also if there are going to be any other
Rec.gamblers there on sunday, maybe we could all meet up somewhere and watch
the game and cause trouble.

Any help would be appretiated. 


					Stever
					"Personally, I still like SF"
Newsgroups: rec.gambling
From: freedman@cs.colostate.edu (keith freedman)
Subject: Re: Should I return the money back?
Date: Sat, 23 Jan 1993 22:13:19 GMT
Reply-To: freedman@cs.colostate.edu
Organization: Colorado State University -=- Computer Science Department

In article 4163@odin.corp.sgi.com, kubey@sgi.com (Ken Kubey) writes:
>In article <1993Jan22.211914.26981@ucsu.Colorado.EDU> lien@ucsu.Colorado.EDU (LIEN FANG PEI) writes:
>>I am positively sure that I won't return the $400 if a
>>dealer gives me a pink for a black.  
>
>I agree.  A mistake like that at a table would go completely
>un-noticed and no one person would get in trouble.
>
>>But from a cashier, I am still not sure.
>
>I think you did the right thing.  
>Keeping the money would be very much like stealing $400 from 
>someone will they weren't looking.
>
Not sure about Nevada, but Colorado State law says that if a cashier
retruns too much change to a customer, the customer is under NO
OBLIGATION to return any money.  However, if the customer is given
insufficient change, they may request the difference.
---
Keith Freedman
Colorado State University
Department of Computer Science
Systems Administration
From: freedman@cs.colostate.edu (keith freedman)
Newsgroups: rec.gambling
Subject: Re: Should I return the money back?
Date: 25 Jan 93 22:25:48 GMT
Article-I.D.: yuma.Jan25.222548.21279
Reply-To: freedman@cs.colostate.edu
Organization: Colorado State University -=- Computer Science Department

In article 3428@ucsu.Colorado.EDU, lien@ucsu.Colorado.EDU (LIEN FANG PEI) writes:
>While waiting for the report from the security department, I asked the
>cashier who should take care the $400 difference?
>She said: "No body!  But I will be in big trouble!"
>Does it mean casino will take the $400 as loss and fire the cashier?
>
I had a teller at a bank here credit $50 too much to my account and then
realize it.  I asked if she'd get in trouble.
she said, "Not for that small amount."  A lot of 50's add up, I imagine!

>By the way, how does casino prevent this kind of error made by "dealers"
>on the table.  I suppose it will be very hard because there is no audit 
>trail as someone mentioned before.  Are video taping and pit boss supervising
>the only internal controls casino can do on this problem?
>
They have the eye-in-the-sky TM on 24 hours a day.  My understanding is that
they pay attention whenever a payout is taking place.  Therefor,
they can see where the chips are coming from.  They also ALL have to call
a pit boss when a $100 or larger is going out (and when someone bets cash).
---
Keith Freedman
Colorado State University
Department of Computer Science
Systems Administration
From: swood@unixg.ubc.ca (Stephen Wood)
Newsgroups: rec.gambling
Subject: Re: Question about proprieties in BJ
Date: 26 Jan 1993 22:46:37 GMT
Organization: University of British Columbia, Vancouver, B.C., Canada
NNTP-Posting-Host: unixg.ubc.ca

In article <30546@optima.cs.arizona.edu> gln@cs.arizona.edu (Gary L. Newell) writes:
>
[about placing a $5 bet at a $10 table]
>
>
This poses a dilemma as two rules apply.  The dealer should not allow you
to place a bet for less than the minimum and it is his responsibility to
gently remind you of the minimum.  Furthermore he should not allow you to
change your bet after the first card of the round is dealt.  What the 
dealer should have done is call a pit-critter who has the authority to
make an executive decision irrespective of the applicable rules.

Practise at home until you can accept and tip for drinks and play BJ
simultaneously and you won't have this problem ;^).
>


Newsgroups: rec.gambling