From: rdd@cactus.org (Robert Dorsett)
Subject: Re: playing with jackals
Organization: Capital Area Central Texas UNIX Society, Austin, Tx
Date: Thu, 27 Aug 1992 22:03:50 GMT

In article <1992Aug27.172524.24871@news.acns.nwu.edu> drmax@casbah.acns.nwu.edu (Marianna Max) writes:
>>
>Your characterization of both me and Margaret is as impolite as many that
>people have been objecting to here. You may not be swayed by either
>arguement but many people are swayed by one-sided presentations of issues,
>especially if they appear in a public forum. 

Oh, dear, and for these *stupid* people, you're going to be their protector,
right?  Lord save us from control freaks.

Here's a tip: it doesn't work.  The more extreme you get, the more you try
to get the last word in, the less credibility you have.  Yes, this is 
a tempting thing to do, and I've been a frequent violator--but, on average,
once the dust settles, I've never ceased to be impressed by the intelligence
of the people who quietly sit by and let the assholes make spectacles of them-
selves.  Despite everything, they still make up their own minds, and aren't 
"programmable" by some nerd typing at a keyboard.  ESPECIALLY assholes who 
choose to dump on people who clearly try to represent themselves as impartial 
to the issues, and who try to moderate things a bit, as Mary tried to do.  
What are you afraid of, that she might make sense, and stop the flaming?

Take this discussion to email, to the eco group, to alt.flame, to /dev/null,
for all I care.  Just get it off rec.aviation.


As for Margaret's posts?  I'd say that if at least 50% of content is
not directly aviation-related, it should be directed to other, more approp-
riate newsgroups.  But since there IS a strong "flying" component to much
of it, she may find it of interest to create a mailing list (and make it 
publicly available) for those aviators who are also interested in ecological 
activism to discuss the stuff to their hearts' content, perhaps posting a 
pointer to the list every few weeks.

In fact, if she has no way to do this, I'll set it up on rascal.   This
stuff has been almost continuously on rec.aviation, for the last six months;
I'd say a mailing list is overdue. 


>Now if Margaret wants to push the no clear
>cutting issue, then this isn't the forum for it. If she doesn't want to
>push it but wants to talk about it relative to her flying in this group 
>I do think she has some obligation to try to present a balanced view. 
>This is of course just my opinion and I would be as opposed to someone
>pushing their view that clear cutting is the best thing in the world for
>the environment (sic) while telling a story about flying. 

That is a load of claptrap.  You're not attacking her because she's violating
net.propriety.  You're attacking her because she's attacking net.propriety
AND pissing you off, and you want to muzzle her because her views contradict 
yours.  At least give us the courtesy of being honest about it.


It's been my observation that those who whine the most about the poor
weak-minded masses being swayed by "one-sided" debate are also those who
feel they're on the losing end of such rhetoric: rationing water on a 
sinking boat.  Either improve upon that rhetoric, or concede defeat.





---
Robert Dorsett
rdd@cactus.org
...cs.utexas.edu!cactus.org!rdd