HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: archer@utkux1.utk.edu (T. Archer)
Subject: Re: Libertarian Platform
Organization: University of Tennessee Division of Continuing Education
Date: Thu, 23 Jul 1992 14:45:20 GMT

In article <25726@life.ai.mit.edu> rjc@hal.gnu.ai.mit.edu (Ray) writes:


>  Jim is not only a liar, but also a colossal idiot! If you can
>point out any net libertarian or Libertarian who supports rescinding
>laws against pedophilia please tell me. Libertarians have always claimed
>that one of the valid functions of government is protection from force
>and fraud.  We support government protection against rape, murder,
>theft, property violation, etc, etc.  

I apologise.  Some of this is my fault, although Jim's bias predated my 
comments.  I somehow managed to allow myself to be manipulated into 
supporting pedophelia, a position that neither I, nor the libertarians 
support.  I let my defense of freedom of association get wander afield.

Sorry.

-=-=-
T. Archer  PA142548@utkvm1.utk.edu
University of Tennessee
"Vote Dempublican, it's easier than thinking." -- Unknown
-=-=-
Xref: sparky talk.politics.misc:36407 ca.politics:6095
From: cramer@optilink.UUCP (Clayton Cramer)
Newsgroups: talk.politics.misc,ca.politics
Subject: Re: aids conference in cuba
Date: 28 Jul 92 17:42:27 GMT
Organization: Optilink Corporation, Petaluma, CA

In article <nqscpu4@fido.asd.sgi.com>, dauber@sgi.com (Jeff Dauber) writes:
> In article <11394@optilink.UUCP> cramer@optilink.UUCP (Clayton Cramer) writes:
> >Of course.  Then again, I can keep my pants zipped, unlike the
> >homosexual community.
> 
> Can you say "stereotype"?  I thought so...
> 
> Claytoon, by the time I came out of the closet, AIDS was a fact of life.
> The same is true of almost all of my friends.  How come you seem to be
> able to blame anyone who is gay for the excesses of the 70s... 
> 
> Oh, yes... I know the answer. You are a homophobe.
> 
> FWA

Excesses of the 70s?  Here's a recent posting from soc.motss, 
discussing THIS year.

# From tdbear@tandon.com Wed Jul 22 18:18:53 1992
# Path: optilink!digi!texsun!cronkite.Central.Sun.COM!sixgun.East.Sun.COM!seven-up.East.Sun.COM!news2me.ebay.sun.com!sun-barr!olivea!uunet!psinntp!tandon!tdbear
# From: tdbear@tandon.com (Tom Barrett)
# Newsgroups: soc.motss
# Subject: Re: HIV- cases of full blown AIDS?
# Message-ID: <1992Jul23.011853.8668@tandon.com>
# Date: 23 Jul 92 01:18:53 GMT
# References: <1992Jul20.092306.51548@qut.edu.au> <1992Jul20.082445.5316@resonex.com> <1992Jul20.222410.5476@athena.cs.uga.edu>
# Organization: Tandon Corporation, Moorpark, CA
# Lines: 24
# 
# >Scary stuff. At this rate I might never have sex again. I might never
# >come out of doors.
# 
# It *is* scary... especially for those who formed close
# relationships, got tested every six months, and then began to
# have unprotected sex after a couple or more negative results.
# 
# My current lover has a pretty good solution which I think we
# will both keep up... always assume that your partner is HIV+
# and you will probably not forget to practice safe sex.
# 
# I was visiting out of town this weekend, and I was apalled by
# the number of people who wanted to have unsafe sex with me in
# the clubs... One bear of a man complied with my slight push
# and shaking of my face, but I had to repeatively push another
# man away and even then he seemed to be making moves to catch
# my semen in his hands to taste it... dumb, dumb, dumb!
# 
# 
# -- 
# Tom Barrett (TDBear)    tdbear@tandon.com                 voice 805-378-6207
# Tandon Corporation      tdbear@p6.f1006.n102.z1.fidonet.org fax 805-529-8895
# Sr. HW Design Engineer  "War is Peace, No is Yes, And We're All Free!" 
# [The views expressed herein may not be shared by the organization of origin]




-- 
Clayton E. Cramer {uunet,pyramid}!optilink!cramer  My opinions, all mine!
"Well, maybe the Holocaust was right *for that culture*." -- a moral relativist
with whom I work.
Newsgroups: talk.politics.misc,ca.politics
From: foy@aero.org (Richard Foy)
Subject: Homeless
Organization: The Aerospace Corporation, El Segundo, CA
Date: Mon, 27 Jul 1992 22:46:22 GMT

The other day  I went to the grocery store. A woman with a cardboard sign
was at the door. The sign said "homeless woman, 4 children, will work" etc. 
I went into the store. After I made my purchases I approached her, gave her 
a dollar. She thanked me. Then I asked her how she had become homeless.
She told me a story about injury, problems with obtaining workers
compensation, about buearacracy in obtaining welfare etc. etc. Her story
was believeable. It may or may not have been true.

I have several acquaintainces who used to work in the aerospace industry.
They were laid off. The fact that they were laid off as opposed to others
had IMO very little to do with their technical abilities and job
performance. This happended many moons ago. They have been trying to get
work doing anything. The last I heard from them they had not found work.
At least one of them is close to becoming homeless.

I tell these stories not to try to appeal to anyones compassion, not to
express concern for them. Rather I tell these stories to say that it can
happen to anyone. If one thinks they are invulnerable to this type of
event, think again.

What would happen to you if, for example, you had a mild stroke, one that
left all of your physical abilities, but one that destroyed your analytical 
capability and greatly interferred with your communication skills. And what if
your medical insurance etc. kicked you off their rolls. These things have
and do happen.

Again I discuss this not to try to change your attitudes. Rather I wonder
if you can walk in the shoes of one who is in these straights, and
think about what they might do to survive. Again not for compassion but
rather for understanding. If one does not understand a problem one is very
likely not to be able to do anything about it.

Richard Foy           Standard Disclaimer









Xref: sparky talk.politics.misc:36243 ca.politics:6068 ba.politics:3798
From: cramer@optilink.UUCP (Clayton Cramer)
Newsgroups: talk.politics.misc,ca.politics,ba.politics
Subject: Re: Against Our Will
Date: 27 Jul 92 18:38:31 GMT
Distribution: na
Organization: Optilink Corporation, Petaluma, CA

In article <1992Jul25.230704.3967@PA.dec.com>, gnn@wsl.dec.com (George Neville-Neil) writes:
> In article <11400@optilink.UUCP> cramer@optilink.UUCP (Clayton Cramer) writes:
# #What has changed?
# #
# #1. Homosexuals are no longer an "oppressed minority" (at least in
# #California) -- most of them are aggressively pursuing a campaign to
# #force the rest of us to associate with them against our will.
# #
# Tell that to all the people who get gay bashed every year.

Does that mean that because white males get murdered every year,
they are also an oppressed group?  Of course not.

Individuals who get attacked, regardless of their sexual
orientation, are definitely being victimized.  But that doesn't
mean that the whole group they are associated with are oppressed.

# Associate with you ?  Not on a bet.

Yet, that's what antidiscrimination laws do.

# #2. I now have children, and I worry for their safety.  I have
# #discovered, by reading soc.motss, and watching the coverage of
# #gay parades, that there is substantial support for child molestation
# #in the gay community -- perhaps not a majority, but certainly a
# #large enough minority that there has been great reluctance to
# #exclude groups like NAMBLA.
# 
# You live in a society that glorifies rape, and murder and you complain
# about an organization of 1000 people nationwide ?

I put a bit of energy into that issue as well, in case you haven't
noticed.  We DO live in a society where some elements (like Time-Warner)
DO glorify murder and rape.  And they are getting plenty of flak about
it.

# #3. I have discovered, based on gay-positive textbooks and articles, 
# #that homosexuals are disproportionately involved in child molestation.
# 
# Don't you mean you have invented this agenda ?

No.  The data is very disturbing, and was quite a surprise to me.

[Ad hominem attacks deleted]
-- 
Clayton E. Cramer {uunet,pyramid}!optilink!cramer  My opinions, all mine!
"Well, maybe the Holocaust was right *for that culture*." -- a moral relativist
with whom I work.
From: dowzycki@andromeda.rutgers.edu (Ken Dowzycki)
Newsgroups: talk.politics.misc
Subject: posting to this newsgroup
Date: 29 Jul 92 14:27:09 GMT
Organization: Rutgers Univ., New Brunswick, N.J.


    If anyone can see this posting, please, please contact me
either as a follow up or by e-mail.  I can't seem to get through
to any newsgroups.

    This is being posted on July 29, 10:26 AM EST.

   If you would be so kind to reply please include the date and
time you are reading this.  Thank you.

Email    dowzycki@andromeda.rutgers.edu
From: matt@physics2.berkeley.edu (Matt Austern)
Newsgroups: talk.politics.misc
Subject: Re: Perot's October Surprise
Date: 21 Jul 92 11:09:33
Organization: Lawrence Berkeley Laboratory (Theoretical Physics Group)
Reply-To: matt@physics.berkeley.edu
NNTP-Posting-Host: physics2.berkeley.edu
In-reply-to: pearsodc@NeXTwork.Rose-Hulman.Edu's message of Tue, 21 Jul 1992 14:38:43 GMT

In article <1992Jul21.143843.23744@cs.rose-hulman.edu> pearsodc@NeXTwork.Rose-Hulman.Edu (Douglas C. Pearson) writes:

> Is it conceivable, folks, that Mr. Perot is going to return to the  
> campaign after these raving mad supporters of his get him on the ballot in  
> all 50 states, just like they were commissioned to do?

He is not going to get on the ballot in all 50 states.  I don't know
about the requirements elsewhere, but here in California, his
supporters cannot put him on the ballot without his active
participation.

In California, a candidate must fill out an application requesting to
be put on the ballot; petitions are not enough.  The California
Secretary of State has already announced that since Perot has said he
is no longer a candidate, she will not put him on the ballot.
--
Matthew Austern              I dreamt I was being followed by a roving band of
(510) 644-2618               of young Republicans, all wearing the same suit,
matt@physics.berkeley.edu    taunting me and shouting, "Politically correct
austern@theorm.lbl.gov       multiculturist scum!"... They were going to make
austern@lbl.bitnet	     me kiss Jesse Helms's picture when I woke up.
Newsgroups: talk.politics.misc
From: dbetz@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (Drew Betz)
Subject: Re: Bush/Baker Ticket??
Organization: SigSauer Fan Club 
Distribution: usa
Date: Wed, 22 Jul 1992 19:01:01 GMT

In article <64114@hydra.gatech.EDU> jbutterf@mal-s1.gatech.edu (Jill Butterfield) writes:
>There's a rumor going around here that Baker's first task to help
>out the Bush campaign is to kick Quayle out, and that Baker plans
>on running for VP.
>
I hadn't heard that, but I've long thought that Baker would make a run
in 1996 (this prediction came immediately after Mush's 1988 win).
This is an interesting angle, because it would position Baker nicely,
but the Mush campaign would have to worry about the fallout from
a Quayle ouster.  

Drew 

--
drew betz : wj8k : dbetz@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu   
"Our campaign is the opposite of 'competence.'"
- Clinton aide Eli Segal, quoted in the 7/22/92 _Wall Street Journal_ 
Newsgroups: talk.politics.misc,alt.politics.elections
From: philip@reed.edu (Philip Moore)
Subject: Re: Perot sued!!
Keywords: specific performance
Followup-To: t.p.misc
Organization: Reed College, Portland, Oregon
Date: Wed, 22 Jul 1992 05:30:42 GMT
Summary: specific performance

In article <DOCONNOR.92Jul21154118@potato.sedona.intel.com> doconnor@sedona.intel.com (Dennis O'Connor) writes:
>
>You can't usually sue for specific performance of personal service contracts,
>because that would be indentured servitude. You can only sue for damages.
>Therefor, expect the suit against Perot ( which is asking for specific
>performance as remedy, not damages ) to be tossed out.

Except when the defendant is the only contractor who can perform said service.
Specific performance would apply in this case if the judge determined that
Perot was the only person who could stand as a candidate and pay for a 
"world class campaign."

Of course if this class action suit is in federal court then the judge is 
probably a Reagan/Bush appointee so the liklihood of him getting put back in
the race this way is pretty slim.
-- 
Vincennes shot down an Iranian civilian aircraft while it was inside Iranian
territory.  This act of war was carried out as part of an ongoing illegal
strategy of the Reagan/Bush administration.  When asked about the incident
Bush lied to the U.S. Congress and the United Nations.
From: tesco@bumetb.bu.edu (Dances With Babes)
Newsgroups: talk.politics.misc
Subject: Re: TSONGAS: Convention speech text
Date: 22 Jul 92 01:48:53 GMT
Reply-To: tesco@bumetb.bu.edu (Dances With Babes)
Organization: Boston University

>In article <1992Jul20.232455.2997@desire.wright.edu> demon@desire.wright.edu (Stupendous Man) writes:
>
>     Look.  Bush and the Republicans *never* did any Willie Horton ads.  But 
>most of us are adults here.  We know exactly how the "Republicans for Bush" 
>and other groups work like that work, don't we?
> 


Can we drop Willie Horton already?  Al Gore addressed the furlough issue,
mentioning the Horton case, but you say that was fair.  George Bush (or his
cronies, whoever) brought up the same issue, same case, yet you say this 
was a low blow, if not racist.  And why?  because the ad showed Horton's
picture.  Why is this a big deal?  BECAUSE HE'S BLACK.  If he were white,
I suppose all of you not-by-the-color-of-their-skin-but-by-the-content-of-
their-character liberals wouldn't mind as much.
Newsgroups: talk.politics.misc,alt.politics.clinton
From: bob1@cos.com (Bob Blackshaw)
Subject: Re: Question about Clinton's "didn't inhale" remark
Organization: Corporation for Open Systems
Distribution: usa 
Date: Thu, 23 Jul 1992 14:05:05 GMT

In <s#bmnnn.crisp@netcom.com> crisp@netcom.com (Richard Crisp) writes:

>In article <m#bmzcn.esprit@netcom.com> esprit@netcom.com (Alan F. Perry) writes:
>>
>>Where did the name "Slick Willie" come from?
>>

>It came from his home state of Arkansas. He has a reputation of being
>a man who likes to tell different folks different versions of the same
>story but always has an explanation of why the stories are not really
>different (read that mutually exclusive).

I think it really came from that newspaper owner in Little Rock (who
just happens to be Republican and who lost out to Clinton in an
election one time - nothing like a sore loser as a fountain of
truth :-\).

>In the vernacular of the good ol' boys of the south, "slick" means
>a slippery person that cannot be trusted. Sort of like Edwin Edwards
>of Louisiana for example one of gov Bill's democratic bretheren.

Aha! Cupertino! Well, you may think Arkansas is backward, but do
you want to take any bets that it will be still here long after CA?

>-- 
>Richard Crisp         Cupertino, Ca.         crisp@netcom.com
>(415) 903-3832 wk    "what, me worry?"    (408) 253 4541 fax
>"Bill Clinton said he didn't inhale when he tried marijuana,
>and of course when he tried his first beer in high school, he
>didn't swallow. Then there is Jerry Brown who never exhaled."
>-From Mark Russell, live in San Francisco June 30, 1992

REB

Newsgroups: talk.politics.misc
From: burke@tss.com (Jim Burke)
Subject: Tell me what Bush has done
Reply-To: burke@tss.com (Jim Burke)
Organization: Teknekron Software Systems. Inc.
Date: Tue, 21 Jul 1992 18:53:48 GMT

I would sincerely like for some Bush supporters to list three 
major accomplishments of the Bush presidency.  It seems to me 
that the Bush camp keeps pleading that they could accomplish
something if we would just give them a Republican congress.  This
seems like an implicit admission that nothing has been accomplished.
Surely, there must be at least three notable accomplishments that
George Bush can point to.  Hell, I don't consider the Iraqi war to
be an accomplishment, but okay I'll grant you that given the decision
to go to war (with which I disagreed) Bush conducted the war well.
Okay, then, name two accomplishments.  Any two.  Nope, not the Soviet
breakup or the Berlin wall - forces much greater than George Bush 
brought about those events.  There must be _something_ domestically
that Bush can point to - isn't there?

-- 

	Jim Burke	"Life is uncertain - eat dessert first!"
	Teknekron Software Systems		... burke@tss.com
  	phone:(415) 617-2432			... uunet!tekbspa!burke
Newsgroups: talk.politics.misc
From: MrEd@GreenAcres
Subject: Re: SuperCollider: "For" or "Against" -- Tell the Committee  @ tele...
Organization: McGill University
Date: Fri, 24 Jul 1992 17:17:55 GMT

In article <Brw9w7.G0G@apollo.hp.com> nelson_p@apollo.hp.com (Peter Nelson)  
writes:
> In article <1992Jul24.081846.20002@dscomsf.desy.de> hallam@zeus02.desy.de  
writes:
> >In article <01GMPYXLP9GW001CAQ@utarlg.uta.edu>, B645ZAW@UTARLG.UTA.EDU
> >(Stephen Tice) writes:
> >
> >|>What they aren't saying in the Dallas Morning News is that it
> >|>cost about $8 billion to construct the SSC over 8 years, that
> >|>it has about a 25 year projected lifespan and that it will
> >|>take about a billion dollars a year to run.
> >
> >Thats because it's not true.
> >
then (a) how much will it cost to construct
      (b) how long is the lifespan	
       (c) how much will it cost to run each year.
If you don't know the figures, how can you possibly say that those provided by  
the previous poster were inaccurate. 
Newsgroups: talk.politics.misc,alt.folklore.urban
From: tsmaster@media.mit.edu (David LeCompte)
Subject: Re: Vacation Time!
Organization: MIT Media Laboratory
Date: Wed, 22 Jul 1992 21:13:09 GMT

In article <1992Jul22.070637.18806@hpcvaac.cv.hp.com> billn@hpcvaac.cv.hp.com (bill nelson) writes:
>egl1@cunixf.cc.columbia.edu (Elizabeth G. Levy) writes:
>: 
>: There is a story from Caltech about a student who left for the week
>: to visit his girlfriend.  His friends got a lot of plaster, and made
>: his dorm room door vanish; they even installed some wiring, and put
>: a lamp where the door was.  When their friend returned to find
>: the wall, they denied knowing who he was, as sort of existentialist
>: prank.
>
>I heard this story way back in the 60s - about MIT students. I wonder
>which story came first?
>
>: Now, I ask, is there any way we can pull this off over the Usenet
>: with Mr. Kaldis's metaphorical dorm room?
>
>I think Mr is being too polite. The best thing to do with TK is just
>ignore him.
>
>Bill

Um, as an MIT student, and having heard about many such "Hacks" (the
local name for such inventive time sinks) I *believe* that I would
have heard about this happening at MIT, had it really happened here. I
believe that I have heard about it happening at CalTech.

Likelihood that it happened at Caltech: Fair to Low
Likelihood that it happened at MIT:	Low to Snuff

		-Dave "not really an authority"  LeCompte

-- 
---------------------
ObSig
Xref: sparky talk.politics.misc:36542 alt.politics.elections:9349
From: sunder@altair.crhc.uiuc.edu (Srinivas Sunder)
Newsgroups: talk.politics.misc,alt.politics.elections
Subject: California Fields Poll
Date: 30 Jul 1992 01:58:57 GMT
Organization: Center for Reliable and High-Performance Computing, University of Illinois at Urbana-Champaign
Distribution: world
NNTP-Posting-Host: altair.crhc.uiuc.edu

The California Fields Poll shows Bush to be lagging
34 percentage points behind Clinton, which is the
largest gap ever in the polling history of the 
organization. It is a state-wide poll.

Clinton gets 62%, Bush 28% (I guess error margins
are irrelevant given the size of the margin).

Hope Bush gets the message and decides to take a
walk.

Kemp for President!!!

-- 
Srinivas Sunder                                         sunder@crhc.uiuc.edu

If my employer shares these opinions, he deserves them.
********************************************************************************
Newsgroups: talk.politics.misc
From: sunder@altair.crhc.uiuc.edu (Srinivas Sunder)
Newsgroups: talk.politics.misc
Subject: Re: Bush/Baker Ticket??
Date: 22 Jul 1992 18:54:10 GMT
Organization: Center for Reliable and High-Performance Computing, University of Illinois at Urbana-Champaign
Distribution: usa
NNTP-Posting-Host: altair.crhc.uiuc.edu

In article <64114@hydra.gatech.EDU>, jbutterf@mal-s1.gatech.edu (Jill Butterfield) writes:
|> 
|> There's a rumor going around here that Baker's first task to help
|> out the Bush campaign is to kick Quayle out, and that Baker plans
|> on running for VP.

Three reasons why that won't happen.

i) Bush is already strong on Foreign policy. He doesn't need another diplomat
on the ticket (I am assuming of course, that Bush has the same excellent
judgement that I have (:-:)). He'd be better off with Jack Kemp (domestic policy
and darling of right-wing) or Dick Cheney (keeps the West in an arm-lock and
safe with the GOP) or Lamar Alexander (Education, neutralizes Gore in Tenn.)

ii) Bush was asked today if Quayle's position on the tkt. was uncertain, and
he replied that it was VERY certain that Quayle would stay on the tkt.
[VERY unfortunate, IMHO. Quayle, even assuming he is a smart cookie, looks
like a boob on TV, and will be flattened by Gore in the VP debate]

iii) I heard that Baker had changed his voter registration to Wyoming. If
not, he'd be ineligible to be on the tkt since there can't be two Texans
on the same Pres. ticket (forbidden by the Constitution).

|> 
|> Has anyone else heard this? It could really add another interesting
|> dimension to this already topsy-turvy race.

Sure would.
|> jib
 
|> Jill Butterfield, Research Scientist       EMAIL: jbutterf@mal-s1.gatech.edu

-- 
Srinivas Sunder                                         sunder@crhc.uiuc.edu

If my employer shares these opinions, he deserves them.
********************************************************************************
Xref: sparky talk.politics.misc:36655 misc.invest:10105
From: ekp@mcnc.org (Edward Pavelchek)
Newsgroups: talk.politics.misc,misc.invest
Subject: Re: FACTOID: BANKS HAVE MORE MONEY IN US BONDS THEN LOANS
Date: 30 Jul 92 19:15:03 GMT
Followup-To: talk.politics.misc
Organization: Good place for a disclaimer

In article <l7dk08INNd07@spim.mips.com> mpolen@gelato.mips.com (Michael Polen) writes:
>|> >NEW YORK - For the first time in 27 years banks have more goverment
>|> >securities on their books than business loans.
>Could it be the other way around?  My favorite banker suggested that 
>more money is being put into bonds because business loans are very high
>risk these days.  With the Gov't shutting down banks left and right 
>because of the riskiness of their portfolios (past and present), banks
>are forced to be more conservative today.


Who cares if businesses are higher risk these days?  Banks were formed
to spread risk, and Treasuries are by definition riskless (insert mini
smiley).  If the bank's only function is to act as a check clearing
organization, then they can hold temporary excess funds in them, while
rescaling the executive salary structure towards that of a typical
bulk retailer.  If they are going to be banks, pooling clients money and
investing it in larger and riskier projects than their clients can
handle individually, then they should get out of Treasuries!
Immediately.  The drive for self preservation seems to have caused them
to forget their reason for existence.
-- 
And if your hand or foot offend you,         Ed Pavelchek   ekp@mcnc.org
  Cut it off, lad, and be whole;
But play the man, stand up and end you,
  When your sickness is your soul.           AE Housman
Newsgroups: talk.politics.misc