HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: hjfeld@acs.bu.edu (harold feld)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: Period Calendar Wanted
Date: 3 Jan 93 08:09:10 GMT
Organization: Boston University, Boston, MA, USA


Woe and travail on this Tenth of Tevet. May the Lord hear our cries
and redeem us from exile!

In article <1992Dec31.135844.15035@panix.com> ilaine@panix.com (Liz Stokes) writes:
>
>jww@evolving.com (John W. Woolley) writes:
>> Remember that, no matter the time of year, there are twelve equal hours
>> of day and twelve of night; so that in winter day hours are much shorter
>> than night hours.
>>
>>3. Does anyone out there know of any self-adjusting timepieces that would take
>>this stretching and shrinking of hours into account?
>
>	Certainly milord - the sundial. I believe the Romans measured time by
>12 daylight hours and 3 night watches.
>		-Ilaine
>-- 
It is said that King David (the memory of the righteous is as a blessing)
had a magical harp that did wake him and keep the hours in the darkness.

However, for such as us, this is not possible.  since we Jews keep
the division of the day into twelve equal parts and the division of the\
night into twelve equal parts (the parts of the night however are
usually described as four watches of equal length rather than as
twelve hours), we must somehow keep track of the passage of time when there
is no sun.  Several means may thus be employed.

First, recall that the motions of the Sun and the Moon around the
Earth can be predicted by those who have studied the science of 
Astronomy, and thus the length of the day or night can be known.
This knowledge was known even to the philosphers and sages of the
anceint Greeks.  Thus, one need only keep track of the passing
of the minutes, the seconds, or the chalakim (I do not know how
to translate this word, but it is a smaller unit used for the determination
of the rising of the new moon under the calender of Hillel II (on him
be peace).  Perhaps my brother Yonaton, known in this forum as Deudeon,
who has studied more mathematics than I, may know.

Since the length of time may be known in advance, one can 
construct candles that will burn for such lengths of time.
Further, I am told that one of the Rabbis possessed a clock that 
used water, but I know not how this was done.
Perhaps it is Aggadic.

If one is versed in the stars and constilations, and the motions of the
moon, one can tell from observation the time of night.

Alas, I have made little study of this, being an ignorant man
with little time to study.  May the Lord forgive me for neglecting
the sciences which, as our master Moses ben Maimon (may he live to
one hundred and twenty) instructs us, is a worthy thing, teaching
both discipline in thought and the glory of the Creator.

In Service on this 10th day of Tevet,
Yaakov HaMizrachi


Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
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Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
From: mittle@watson.ibm.com (Josh Mittleman)
Subject: Re: German heraldry
Date: Tue, 29 Dec 1992 22:19:34 GMT
Disclaimer: This posting represents the poster's views, not necessarily those of IBM
Organization: IBM T.J. Watson Research Center

Greetings from Arval!

Gwenllian wrote:

>        Ok, do you have a single, widely available, English-language 
>  source for these German words?  One that the local herald of Podunkia 
>  will be able to access when trying to figure out just what the 
>  emblazon should be so they can determine conflict? 

I don't think it is reasonable for blazonry to stand in the way of the use
of a period armorial design element.  Blazonry, as we are fond of noting,
is a convenience for the heralds.  If there is a conflict between an
officer's convenience and that of the people he is supposed to be serving,
then he should adapt his procedures to the requirements of his customers.
To force the customer to adapt to his convenience is exactly backwards.
However, you make a good point: When we use obscure terms of blazonry, we
need to make their definitions easily available to SCA heralds.  That
sounds to me like a logistical problem of education and distribution of
material, which shouldn't be remarkably difficult to solve.  For example,
we could add a short pamphlet to the published A&O which contains
definitions of unusual terms of blazon.  Or we could ask Bruce & Yoshio to
include them in the PicDic.  As an immediate patch, Laurel could publish
explanations in LoAR or even in TI.

>        BTW, would you mind quoting a specific example of a registered 
>  blazon which has the problem you speak of? (German described in multi-
>  word string).

Winifred Schyppewallebotham "Per bend Or and purpure, two linden leaves in
bend sinister, stems issuant from the line of division, within a bordure
counterchanged."  In German, everything but the tinctures & the bordure is
described in the word "Lindenblattschnitt".  There are several other
similar devices registered with the same circumlocution. 

It's worth noting that this problem is not our own invention: mundane
heralds have the same difficulty.  Rietstaap, for example, has at least
four different ways of describing the "nesselblatt", a charge he completely
misunderstood.  In one case he blazons it as "an escutcheon between three
passion nails in pall alternating with three crowns in pall inverted."  And
then his illustrators drew it from the blazon...

===========================================================================
Arval Benicoeur                                       mittle@watson.ibm.com
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
From: PA142548@utkvm1.utk.edu (T. Archer)
Subject: Re: The SCA Religion? ( was: Through a looking glass, darkly)
Organization: University of Tennessee 
Date: Mon, 28 Dec 1992 17:10:59 GMT

>Okay, everybody, so what's the SCA secret handshake?  

I dunno about a handshake, but the secret recognition word is

"How long have you been waiting on your device to pass."

with the correct response being 

"Six months (or more)."
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
Vote Dempublican, it's easier than thinking.
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
From: Tim@f4229.n124.z1.fidonet.org (Tim)
Sender: FredGate@ocitor.fidonet
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: Is the Rialto censored?
Date: Tue, 22 Dec 1992 21:05:39

    Pavel wrote:

 "A> I sent a post responding to Sir John Theophilous about Calontir
 "A> shields. It also mentioned that I have noticed lots of Racism and
 "A> Sexism in the SCA. (almost exclusivly against White males.) and the
 "A> poist just seems to have vanished. I post a 'hello, anyone hear me.'
 "A> and I get 13 replys in 2 hours. What gives. Is the Rialto gone PC?

 Always has been. Does that surprise you?


 * Origin: Herald's Point * Steppes/Ansteorra * 214-699-0057 (1:124/4229)
From: bq434@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Michael A. Chance)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: What harm from a Bad Monarch?
Date: 31 Dec 1992 23:02:09 GMT
Organization: Case Western Reserve University, Cleveland, OH (USA)
Reply-To: bq434@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Michael A. Chance)
NNTP-Posting-Host: hela.ins.cwru.edu


Pardon a moment of negativism, good folks.

Several people have mentioned that the don't see that a "Bad Monarch(tm)"
could do much damage to their kingdom in the few months that they are on
the thrones.  Whilst I hope it never happens, there is actually a
significant amount of damage that such a person(s) could do.

Consider:  How much of your kingdoms regalia is turned over to the
keeping of the new monarchs at their coronation?  Is it inventoried
then?  Is it inventoried when they step down?  How much are your
kingdom's crowns, swords of state, thrones, etc. worth (and how quickly
could they be replaced)?  (Historical note: One of the "incidents" of
the reign of Michael of Boarshaven involved the temporary
"disappearance" and damaging of the Midrealm crowns.)

Consider:  Despite a requirement to consult with the members of the
peerage orders, there is no requirement to follow their
reccommendations.  A set of "Bad Monarchs(tm)" could give knighthoods,
Laurels, and Pelicans to dozens of their friends, all quite legally,
causing major problems for the kingdom for years to come.

Consider:  The Crowns are, technically, official representative of the
Society.  Considering the already shakey reputation that the SCA has in
certain areas of the US, and by certain types of people (some of whom
have large amounts of local influence), it wouldn't take much for one of
the more neaderthal types lucky enough to have won the Crown (or a real
airhead, either gender, to be Consort) to spout off some truly
outrageous half-truth (or outright falsehoods) to the local media (or
worse, to some one from a news service) to cause some major public
relations nightmares for the SCA, Inc. and a lot of its local groups for
years.  (Witness the continuing problem with one or two cases of
suicides erroneously linked to the SCA.)

"Bad Monarchs(tm)" CAN do major damage, if they want to.  Thankfully,
such cases have been extremely rare.

Sorry for the downer during the holiday season, but it is a potential
problem.

Mikjal Annarbjorn
-- 
Michael A. Chance          St. Louis, Missouri, USA    "At play in the fields
Work: mc3078@sw1sta.sbc.com                             of St. Vidicon"
Play: bq434@cleveland.freenet.edu
      mchance@nyx.cs.du.edu
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
From: nusbache@epas.utoronto.ca (Aryk Nusbacher)
Subject: Re: Prepare to receive cavalry!
Organization: University of Toronto - Office of the Provost
Distribution: usa
Date: Mon, 21 Dec 1992 19:13:49 GMT

In article <1h3dv8INN8ld@mirror.digex.com> dickeney@access.digex.com (Dick Eney) writes:

>I don't know who suggested that the infantry shield was to "absorb
>the force of the (cavalry) charge".  No infantry god ever made
>could resist a charge of heavy cavalry by the solidity of a shield
>wall.

Depends on what you mean by "solidity".  

>A charging armored horseman hit with about three times the
>impact energy of a .30 caliber round; if what he hit was you, you
>fell down and probably got trampled.

That is, of course, only IF a charging armoured horseman managed to
hit you:  no small feat.  A horse does _not_ want to charge into a
standing man, and it is generally clever enough to avoid doing so.
Even a trained warhorse _will not_ willingly thump into a barrier.
Stumbling into one is, of course, a different question.

>The way to avoid this was by
>hitting him, or better still his horse, first, with a pike or a
>polearm.  (Note that most pikemen or polearm men didn't carry
>shields at all, so they could use their weapons with both hands.) 

The best way to avoid becoming intimate with opposing cavalry was to
stand fast in a line, thus causing the horses to stop short of your
formation.  Note that by "line" I do not mean a straight line.  Shield
walls seem generally to have been curved; sometimes through 360 degrees.

Pike and pole troops frequently carried shields, though not big
war-board shields.

>By the time pikemen became the regular anti-cavalry fighters, plate
>armor was cheap enough for most grunts to afford it.

There was about a 200 year gap between the development of pike vs.
horse tactics in England, France and the Low Countries (mid-14th
century) and the abundance of cheap, high-grade steel in the 16th century.

The moral of the story for infantry against horse?  Stick together,
and make the cavalry charge you.  If you do the job right, the horse
will have to ride around in frustration while being picked apart by
your archers.  If you're really lucky, the horse will charge right
into you, be disordered by the horses' refusal to thump into your
shields, and the charge will stop dead.  Then you can advance and pike
the opposing horses and riders to death.

Aryk Nusbacher
From: Beth.Appleton@f4229.n124.z1.fidonet.org (Beth Appleton)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Bad kings - IK anthro
Date: 29 Dec 92 19:57:52 GMT


 MAC> foibles made by Crowns (Kings _and_ Queens) since, there has been
 MAC> nothing that even remotely approaches the disaster of the reign of
 MAC> Michael of Boarshaven (not to be confused with 
 Can we swap bad stories?  I'll trade you Pancho of Atenveldt stories...
     Gwenllian Cwmystwyth, Steppes, Ansteorra

 * Origin: Herald's Point * Steppes/Ansteorra * 214-699-0057 (1:124/4229)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
From: rgeorge@staff.tc.umn.edu (Rogers George)
Subject: Re: period firearms
Organization: University of Minnesota
Date: Fri, 1 Jan 1993 00:37:51 GMT

I've been quietly following this thread since its inception, and am curious
about an aspect of period firearm use: at what point were royalty or other
vip's given firearm salutes, either with cannon or smaller arms?

If such a practice is period, it could remove the risks of some* firearm
use at events, if, for example, ONLY blanks were fired, ONLY by those specially
trained / appointed for the purpose, and only as a showy salute to visiting
royals or peers. Such use, of course, would be predicated on the chosen 
period of those being saluted; for early-period monarchs, it wouldn't fit at
all. For kings with far eastern personas, maybe some small (mundanely legal,
whatever that entails) fireworks would be an impressive sight.

The concern with exploding breeches being, unfortunately, all too period,
reminds me of a concern of those who restore old cars. To restore a 40's
(I think) car to its original state involves using cloth-insulated wires,
something that's now recognized as a fire hazard. The compromise accepted
by vintage car clubs was to use normal wire disguised to look like cloth
insulation. Handguns in the SCA may have to undergo a similar 'disguise':
since truly period handguns explode occasionally, semi-modern techniques
may have to be used in gunsmithing, and then disguised somehow to look
like a period weapon.

one possible technique.. for the aforementioned cannon salutes, it may be
possible to construct a cannon that looks extremely* period, even early
period (wooden barrel and everything) that conceals some kind of carbide
"cannon" inside. For those who've never seen these toys, they are designed
to ignite a small amount of acetylene gas, firing nothing, posing no great
fire or explosion hazard (there is no acetylene tank, it's generated by a
reaction between water and .... calcium carbide? I'm probably wrong here.)
and generating one heck of a resounding bang. Very impressive, very period
looking, and nobody but the cannoneers need to know the anachronism that
makes it work.

But these are just a few meandering thoughts... I'm no expert on any of this,
least of all the SCA itself (I've been a member for ~6 months.)

Rogers George
rgeorge@epx.cis.umn.edu
From: sinister@ac.dal.ca
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: Rattan Swords - Looks great, less tape!
Date: 29 Dec 92 23:44:55 -0400
Organization: Dalhousie University, Halifax, Nova Scotia, Canada

In article <graham.725433332@eqsun5>, graham@Civil.Concordia.CA (Graham to my friends) writes:
> I just read a couple articles about rattan swords and the making,
> shrink-wrapping and otherwise altering thereof.
> 
		[stuff deleted]
> ........................ I would say that probably the
> original impetus was to make the swords -silver- with duct tape and thereby
> look like metal (if you squint real hard in the sunset with the sun shining
> into your eyes you might be fooled.) ..........
		[stuff deleted]
> 
> 							Everard.
> 


	Well, if it once was, it isn't now.   I thought I had a great idea, 
shortly after I made my first stick.  I discovered ALUMINUM duct-tape...  
Structural integrity AND great-looking sword, too!
	Except that it seems to fall under the provision of "offensive steel"
within the eric.  So much for looks.... back to the well chewed, drab grey
duct tape we all know and love.

	In Faith and Service,
			Cosmano Piero Michelotto da Roma

_______________________________________________________________
  Cosmano Piero Michelotto da Roma  |    Michel Vaillancourt
    Canton of Seashire              |     Halifax
     Barony of Ruantallan           |    Nova Scotia
      East Kingdom                  |    Canada!
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
|  Disclaimer:  None Required... U of Dalhousie doesn't think |
|           I can do that much damage, even un-supervised...  |
|                                     --'Sinister             |
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
From: jtn@nutter.cs.vt.edu (Terry Nutter)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: 7 On Fealty
Date: 28 Dec 92 04:35:58 GMT
Followup-To: rec.org.sca

Unto the good gentles of the Rialto does Hossein Ali Qomi send greetings and
prayers for the blessings of Allah.

I had taken a hiatus from this bridge for reasons of more pressing business
elsewhere and only happenstancically came upon Master Ioseph's posting on
fealty.  It lacked only a disclaimer to be complete: "The following has
virtually nothing to do with the Middle Ages, the terms have been borrowed
from the Middle Ages to give the appropriate gloss to a work of fiction."
The chief error is starting from the assumption that the political and
sociological structure of the SCA have any relation whatsoever to historical
medieval practice.  They do not.  All the other errors flow from this.

If people were genuinely concerned with recreating the Middle Ages, we
wouldn't need such "scholastic" exercises in explaining the Society's
choice _not_ to be medieval away.

Since I am posting from my lady's account, please send any replies to
greg@silver.lcs.mit.edu.

Best Wishes,

Hossein/Greg
From: rancke@diku.dk (Hans Rancke-Madsen)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: Heraldic questions...
Date: 3 Jan 93 11:59:51 GMT
Organization: Department of Computer Science, U of Copenhagen

Tim@f4229.n124.z1.fidonet.org (Tim) writes:

> Excuse me ... what "Tadhg's definition of Western Culture" are you (and
> others, apparently) referring to here? I am not aware of defining "Western
> Culture" at any time. I have specified the area from which I would prefer
> to see us take our armorial style, and I am of opinion that that certainly
> represents the CORE of the "Western Culture" that the SCA exists to
> emulate, but at no time have I claimed that that area represents the
> *whole* of "Western Culture".

You may not have meant to do so, but that was certainly the impression I,
for one, got. Recalling as best I can without the original postings I think
that Arval argued that Corpora spoke of recreating aspects of the whole of
Western Culture and that consequently the heraldic styles of Scandinavia,
Germany, Hungary, Spain, Portugal, etc. were equally as valid as the style
you (that is, the Society) is currently concentrating on (to the exclusion
of these styles). From your reply I gathered that you did not regard
anywhere outside your "core area" as _truly_ Western Culture (You certainly
defined Scandinavia as "barbarian fringe", a contention that I take issue
with, but will leave aside for the moment in the light of your new message).
Now you made me very confused as to what you really meant. Apparently you
are not saying that "Western Culture" is restricted to your core area. Are
you then saying that

        "Western Culture _as defined in Corpora_ is only really
        the CORE of Western Culture".

or

        "Western Culture as defined in Corpora does include
        all these other places, but it ought not to".

or something else altogether?



      Hans Rancke
University of Copenhagen
     rancke@diku.dk
------------
"Thus at the very dawn of heraldry , and in the most influental part
 of Christian Europe  -  the Holy Roman Empire  -  a dozen or more
 members of the same family would all wear the same arms".
                                Charles MacKinnon of Dunakin
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
From: ewright@convex.com (Edward V. Wright)
Subject: Re: period firearms
Date: Wed, 30 Dec 1992 23:28:20 GMT
Organization: Engineering, CONVEX Computer Corp., Richardson, Tx., USA
X-Disclaimer: This message was written by a user at CONVEX Computer
              Corp. The opinions expressed are those of the user and
              not necessarily those of CONVEX.

In <9212301802.AA04380@math.bu.edu> jeffs@math.bu.EDU (Jeff Suzuki) writes:

>One more factor: where are we going to get functional period firearms?
>I do not know of any company that manufactures them, although I'm sure
>they exist for the appropriate price.  If SCA smiths took to making
>them, they would have to worry about the legal implications of
>manufacturing a possibly dangerous product, etc.  

That would not seem to be an unsolveable problem, since I have
seen several companies advertising period firearms in Tournaments
Illuminated.

Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
From: parr@acs.ucalgary.ca (Charles Parr)
Subject: Re: Too Light Blows (was Re: Face-thrust force/Picts)
Date: Tue, 22 Dec 92 15:32:25 GMT
Distribution: world, na, usa, local
Organization: The University of Calgary, Alberta

In article <1992Dec16.090535.13085@bsu-ucs> 00mjstum@leo.bsuvc.bsu.edu (Matthew J. Stum) writes:

>To me, SCA combat is truly _tournament_ combat... not _war_ combat.  _War_
>combat would also need to include the dirtiest of fighting tactics...
>kicking, shield bashing, grappling, deadly face-thrusts, etc.  

Yeah!!! Oh Boy!!!

I would *love* to see this done. Perhaps a separate authorization
process, more rigid, and a different name. 

It would be lovely to be able to practice *real* combat.

BTW, last thursday I took some old worn-out boiled leather armour
(a pauldron set to be specific), set it up on a post, and
had one of the strongest heavy fighters I know swing at it with
a real sword. Of 5 blows, all of which would have been termed
'excessive' in force, only one completely cut the leather.

The sword was a properly tempered 2.75lb broadsword. The fighter
was a man with ten years of experience, who has been our baronial
champion 4 times.

Food for thought.

Carolus Malvoix
Montengarde An Tir
-- 
Within the span of the last few weeks I have heard elements of
separate threads which, in that they have been conjoined in time,
struck together to form a new chord within my hollow and echoing
gourd. --Unknown net.person