HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: solovay@netcom.com (Andrew Solovay)
Subject: Silly digression (was Re: Dworkin)
Organization: Free Faerie Front
Date: Tue, 5 Jan 1993 05:25:11 GMT

In article <1993Jan5.030042.10601@netcom.com> onr@netcom.com (D. Owen Rowley) writes:
>
>Power is an individual thing, and each person either finds it within
>themselves or accepts it from outside themselves. 

Hence the old saying, "Some men are born great, some achieve
greatness, and some have greatness thrust within them."

(Jess? Does this get me in your quotes file?)
-- 
Andrew Solovay    

"I is not now, nor has I ever been, a Human Bein'!"
                ---Pogo Possum
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: Charlie Fulton <charlie@isis.mit.edu>
Subject: Smells Like Bisexual Spirit
Organization: Ctr for Advanced Rsrch in Oppressive Binarisms
X-Useragent: Nuntius v1.1
Date: Mon, 11 Jan 1993 16:20:58 GMT

Another one out, and this one's a biggie: I just heard on the radio that 
Kurt Cobain has declared he is a "practicing bisexual."  (his wording, 
no flames please)

If your reaction to this news is "Who's Kurt Cobain?", ask the nearest
disaffected teenager who he is.  Or pick up a copy of "Sassy."

I'm *very* pleased by this news.  Bob Mould and Michael Stipe
can pussyfoot around the issue all they want now, because Nirvana
Has Spoken.  I didn't really like _Nevermind_ when it came out
last year, but that don't matter.  *Legions* of teenagers did like it
and any burgeoning homophobes among them will now have to 
re-evaluate their bigotry. Yip yay!

Charlie
From: rdonahue@spdcc.com (Bob Donahue)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: Baaahr Manners in Bahwston
Date: 10 Jan 93 17:20:20 GMT
Organization: insert anything here

dyer@spdcc.com (Steve Dyer) writes:
>rdonahue@spdcc.com (Bob Donahue) writes:
>>>Besides, the cost of owning a car in Boston is so high that
>>>>it would cut too dearly into our clothing allowance.
>>>Huh?
>>>My insurance doubled when I moved from Boston to San Francisco...

>>	Oh, don't mind him Roger, I think he's trying to be the Melmac of
>>the East.

>I prefer to think of him as the Arne of the east.  Think about it...

	No, Arne has style.

>>BBC, whose insurance went down going from
>>NM to Boston...

>That's because you live in a toxic waste dump, dear.  If you lived
>in Boston, you'd have a different experience.

	No, it would have gone down if I had moved to Cambridge or
Somerville.  You should check your facts first.  About the only suburb
place it would have gone up (I checked at the time, becuase I was
so stunned at the decrease in rate) was Lawrence or Chelsea.  
(Although Chelsea is not really a suburb...)  Being totally
honest, I think Cambridge was close to break-even (I think it was
about $20/year cheaper).

	As for where my home is - I don't recall you EVER complaining
any time we've invited you over, including Friday night.  IF you
prefer to be spared the embarrassment of being caught dead outside
of 02138, I'm sure we can do our part to arrange that...  <snap!>
I mean, we've shown you every courtesy, *including* hiding the
three-eyed geese that normally roam the parking lot not to mention
the added burden of having to paint over the walls that have the 
chemical-eating algae on them before your visits...

	Besides - I have a better chance of spitting into Stoneham or
Winchester from my bedroom window than I do of hitting Woburn center.

	And the idea of comparing where I'm living now to where I 
lived *before* I moved back is completely ludicrous.  I liked my
old place for a number of reasons, amenities were NOT one of them.
And I'm certain the drinking water was a hell of a lot less pure...
Besides, since you *know* we're planing to move in closer in the near
(maybe next month) future, why the feeble cheap shot?  I don't recall
you having any relative in the insurance industry...

BBC

P.S. The whole business of the 30-yr old Woburn toxic waste problem
smacks of "psuedo-science"... if you've read up on it...
From: dyer@spdcc.com (Steve Dyer)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: Changing standards of female beauty
Date: 4 Jan 93 08:12:33 GMT
Article-I.D.: spdcc.1993Jan4.081233.27128
Organization: S.P. Dyer Computer Consulting, Cambridge MA

In article <1993Jan4.025343.5786@macc.wisc.edu> anderson@macc.wisc.edu (Jess Anderson) writes:
>>Absolutely.  My roommate's most recent boytoy moved in a
>>couple of weeks ago, and the bathroom is now filled with
>>styling mousse, hairspray, skin bronzer (although since he's
>>Mexican, and hence naturally dark-skinned, I wonder why),
>>clay masques, two different shampoos and a collection of
>>conditioners and moisturizers for his hair, all sorts of
>>skin moisturizers and who knows what else.
>
>You give the impression (perhaps only to my ear, which would
>then say something more about me) that you don't entirely
>approve of this invasion of emollients into your bath.

I think they're preposterous.

>Maybe this violates your sense of the simple, but it's my
>impression most gay men have very well furnished baths, with
>most of that stuff.

Not the gay men I hang out with.  A very few of my friends and acquaintances
might, I suppose, but they have their own bathrooms, so I am spared any sense
of personal assault.  One of two of my friends will join me for a concert or
other event, drenched to the gills in some cologne.  I am too polite to tell
them what I think of this.

>Besides, quite a lot of these products are rather fun.

To each his own.  I once had a hunky houseguest I was slobbering over
until I noticed his bottle of "Oil of Olay" on the nightstand.  That took
care of my ardor rather neatly.

-- 
Steve Dyer
dyer@ursa-major.spdcc.com aka {ima,harvard,rayssd,linus,m2c}!spdcc!dyer
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: czmt@gibbs.oit.unc.edu (Season Marie Taylor)
Subject: Re: Wil Wheaton at MacWorld!!!!!
Organization: University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill
Date: Wed, 13 Jan 1993 01:54:07 GMT

In article <1993Jan12.230836.696@Princeton.EDU> spencer@phoenix.princeton.edu (S. Spencer Sun) writes:

>He ever been in
>anything else?)

he was in the movie Stand By Me in which four kids go out to find the body
of some other kid who has been hit by a train.  River Phoenix was also in it.

-- 
                     ____
Season Taylor        \  / "we are one body/we are one spirit/one breath/one
czmt@gibbs.oit.unc.edu\/   dream of life and death/.../one sex"
(yes, as in the 4)                          -sophie b. hawkins
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: fy@lucid.com (Frank Yellin)
Subject: Re: Seid umschlungen, Millionen.  Diesen Kuss der ganzen Welt!
Organization: Lucid, Inc., Menlo Park, CA
	<C0p94w.G62@queernet.org> <1993Jan11.182214.8035@spdcc.com>
Distribution: na
Date: 11 Jan 93 14:31:36


>
>   >>You're talking about _My Queer Body_, I guess.
>   >
>   >Nope.  The new show is not "My Queer Body" -- it's called
>   > "sex/love/stories," 
>   >as Jack said.
>
>   Duh.  Maybe I should try reading for a change...
>
>   Steve Dyer

"sex/love/stories" is supposed to be both some of Miller's old material and
some newly written material.  There was no overlap with "My Queer Body."

I saw it on Saturday night.  A wonderful performance.  I recommend it
hightly.

-- Frank Yellin
   fy@lucid.com
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: ry@cbnewsl.cb.att.com (ryerson.schwark)
Subject: Re: Congratulating (het) parents on their new baby
Organization: UNIX System Laboratories, Summit, NJ
Date: Wed, 6 Jan 1993 16:46:19 GMT

In article <1993Jan6.161634.11857@midway.uchicago.edu> elle@midway.uchicago.edu writes:
>
>I know it's a tired question, Ry, but so am I:  if you're so bloody
>concerned about overpopulation that you feel it necessary to criticize
>others for having children, why not just save everyone the trouble and
>bump yourself off?
>

Because I'm a selfish pig, and I like being alive.  I also value
existing life very highly, so the only way to fix the problem that
is acceptable to me is to discourage people from adding more people
to the population.

>I'd say it's too bad you've never met Peg's kids; the next generation
>as to come from _somewhere_, and a lovelier, brighter, more queer-
>positive bunch of children you won't find anywhere.

I'm sure I'd like them.

>
>>Too bad.  I am anti-family if being for family means following
>>the mooing herds that trumpet the joys of breeding.  There are
>>plenty of people on this planet already.
>
>I haven't the faintest idea why you're extrapolating "mooing herds"
>from what she said.  If it's a choice of ceding breeding rights to the
>'phobes or to Peg, it's a damned easy choice.

Oh, I wasn't really.  I was just being tired and repetitive.  I hadn't
fulfilled my necessary quota because of the holidays and I was trying
to catch up.

Ry
ry@usl.com
From: adolphso@mizar.usc.edu (adolphson)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: Year of the Queer
Date: 12 Jan 1993 13:59:33 -0800
Organization: University of Southern California, Los Angeles, CA
NNTP-Posting-Host: mizar.usc.edu

In article <1993Jan12.212533.28069@psych.toronto.edu> 
jarvis@psych.toronto.edu (Brian Jarvis) writes:
> In article <C0rDI0.EtB@unix.amherst.edu> 
> twpierce@unix.amherst.edu (Tim Pierce) writes:
> >In article <1993Jan12.182645.16870@psych.toronto.edu
> > jarvis@psych.toronto.edu (Brian Jarvis) writes:
> >
> >>I'm just trying to reconcile these
> >>all-inclusive simplistic statements with my knowledge that there's a
> >>_lot_ of diversity in a population of 5 billion across six* continents
> >>and a recorded history of more than 5000 years.

And I'm still trying to reconcile what possible difference
to my life as a gay man in urban North America is the
knowledge that in rural Latin America (and elsewhere),
a man who often enjoy inserting his penis into another 
man's anus would not ever consider himself to be "homosexual" 
or "gay" or "queer", precisely because he's the one who's
"acting like a man".  So the fuck what?  What does that
have to do with "gay pride"?

> >I find this argument astonishingly naive.  History has spoken, and it
> >spoke at Stonewall.  If you or anyone else can suggest a single event
> >that was even comparably significant with respect to gay liberation in
> >the same way that Stonewall is, then we have a debate.  Otherwise,
> >those 5000 years don't add up to bullshit.
>
> So that's it?  There was Stonewall and nothing else?  Anywhere?  At any
> time?  Nothing before?  Nothing after?  Not a single victory worth 
> celebrating or a loss worth mourning?  Just Stonewall?

Stonewall is the event that radicalized gay men, first in
New York, then elsewhere.  All contemporary gay political
organizations, from Queer Nation to Lambda Legal Defense
to the Log Cabin Club to ACT UP, find their origins in 
Stonewall.

> No court cases?
> No civil rights marches?
> No civil disobedience events?

Yes, there were isolated court cases and civil disobedience events,
and even some picketing, but no *gay* civil rights marches that
I'm aware of before 1969.  Can you provide an example or two?

> No AIDS crisis?

No, the AIDS crisis began after Stonewall.

> No election campaigns?

Where?

> No civil rights legislation?

No.  (OK, the state of Illinois.  The Netherlands.)

> Nothing?

Stonewall was the catalyst for what we have now.
Do you think there would have been all those Toronto
bathhouses in the first place had it not been in
the Canadian psyche to slavishly copy from the
American example?

Arne
From: Furr@cup.portal.com (George Dalton Madison)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: Arne Adolphson, Moron At Large
Date: Sun, 10 Jan 93 15:18:37 PST
Organization: The Portal System (TM)
  <73219@cup.portal.com> <1993Jan10.163010.12041@spdcc.com>

Bob Donahue writes:
>Furr@cup.portal.com (George Dalton Madison) writes:
>>BBC writes:
>>>>John, who somehow senses George would rather die than do drag
>>>Hon, he IS doing drag!  Think about it.
>>*NOT*.
>
> In your strive to be minimalistically articulate, you've
>left yourself open to being miss-interpreted.  So, I'll step in.
>Your use of this horrible cliche,

Which is entirely appropriate to the level of discourse,
IMHO....

>means either:
>1) you don't do drag, in any form, which I can easily shoot
>down by either expanding the definition or just 

Any definition can prove whatever you want if you expand it beyond
the bounds of sanity and reason.

>waiting until I see you in anything-but-your-persona clothing.
 
This will be rather difficult, considering you live ~3000mi away.

>I wouldn't have to even hold my breath.

Wrong.  But you'll turn a *lovely* shade of blue doing so.

I've said before that I simply don't buy the argument that
"everything you wear is drag!" I think it's overly simplistic,
and I also think it rather insults the ingenuity and daring of
the people from whom the term "drag" has been generalized -- the
"drag queen."

In the *classic* sense of drag, I don't participate. In this,
John was essentially correct.  And IMHO, BBC was just looking
for an argument, an excuse to read his own typing, or both.

[Gaia knows I understand that motivation!  ;-{)##]

>in La Furr's reaction
    ^^   
That would be "Le Furr," to get it correct, assuming you're
swiping from French.

>I don't believe that he actually has the disdain for people who ARE into
>drag that his e-persona would have us believe.

Even my e-persona doesn't have a disdain of this nature. My
e-persona was simply stating that drag is an activity I don't
participate in. I also don't play rugby or have macrame as a
hobby -- so what?

>the increasingly-often used term, 'Furrbaiting'

As someone who was bullied extensively through grade school, I
frankly don't put any stigma on a person who responds to a
taunting jerkwit; said jerkwit is 100% at fault, IMHO. I've said
this before, and I'll say it as many times as I need to.
 
() Faith: Belief without evidence in what is told by one who
() speaks without knowledge, of things without parallel.
()      -- Ambrose Bierce
-----
[> George D. Madison | NBCS: B8f+t+w-e+s+k+a!cv | Just say NO to razors! <]
[> It's a BEAR thing -- you wouldn't understand. <|> furr@cup.portal.com <]
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: foucault@netcom.com (Howard Arthur Faye)
Subject: Re: This Opera Bouffe we call life (was Re: Travel Advice Needed - Tuscany)
Organization: Netcom Online Communications Services (408-241-9760 login: guest)
Date: Sat, 9 Jan 1993 03:49:27 GMT

In article <1ilcqrINNbpr@mizar.usc.edu> adolphso@mizar.usc.edu (adolphson) writes:
>In article <1993Jan9.012047.3731@netcom.com> 
>Have you ever tried any of Rossini's recipes, Howard?
>Did you ever cook any of Rossini's recipes, Howard?

The temptation to essay Tournedos Rossini was too great for me. But
I was disappointed to discover that Rossini managed this and other
dishes with benefit of a silver syringe, which, alas, I do not
possess.


-- 
Howard Arthur Faye * Panglossian Acres * Box 7 * Littlerock, CA   93543

"To eat, to love, to sing, and to digest; in truth, these are the four
acts in this opera bouffe that we call life, and which vanishes like 
bubbles in a bottle of champagne."     --Gioacchino Rossini



Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: hsu@walnut.sfsu.edu (William Hsu)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: race based fetishes
Date: 13 Jan 93 00:28:48 GMT
Reply-To: hsu@walnut.sfsu.edu

Caroline Jean Lee:
> 
> The difference for me, between being attracted to someone for their
> race and being attracted to them for, say their mustache or their
> bubble butt, is that race carries a lot of associations, stereotypes,
> and other baggage that many other physical features do not.  Race is a
> loaded category in our society.

Well-put. And good article in general.

What is important to me is whether I'm forced into certain stereotypical
roles in relationships or social situations, because of my race. When
that happens, it's time to think about walking out.

But it's not easy to separate race-based characteristics from non-race
-based physical characteristics, cultural characteristics etc. Just last
night I was talking with a friend's Mexican artist boyfriend about Frida
Kahlo and light in Chinese painting (of which I know very little) and
traditional brush techniques in Chinese calligraphy (which I know 
something of). Now if we were trying to pick each other up, we probably
would have been talking about the same things, but it wouldn't be as
if I *expect* him to tell me all about Kahlo, or he expects any Asian
to tell him all about Chinese calligraphy.

Bill, who had a date with a boy he thought is part-Japanese, but it
turned out he is Irish/Polish, and they ended up talking about Butoh
anyway
From: mikel@dosbears.UUCP (Mike Lipsie)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: some thoughts of mine. It might not be very interesting to you.
Date: 5 Jan 93 05:44:59 GMT
Reply-To: dosbears!mikel@pyramid.com
Organization: DOS Bears

In article <C0CA8w.FB2@cs.vu.nl> fjvwing@cs.vu.nl (FJ!!) writes:

And does so beautifully.

This is why I read this news group and regret the times I can't.

Thank you, FJ!!

I do, however, have to make one comment.

>				I post here to greet.
>
>So many people from here I've met last year! And they were all so much
>fun! Geez, I must be lucky that only the nice people seem to come over
>here. 

I have discovered that nice people only meet nice people.  If you 
look for the ugly in someone, you will find it.  But usually, it is
a reflection.  I don't think FJ!! has any ugly in himself to reflect.

--
Mike Lipsie                            584 Castro #614, San Francisco, CA 94114
dosbears!mikel@pyramid.com
mikel%dosbears.uucp@ingres.com    Running rn (for DOS) with UUPC/Extended 1.11k
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: thaaang@cwis.unomaha.edu (John Dorrance)
Subject: Re: Bar etiquette
Organization: University of Nebraska at Omaha
Date: Mon, 4 Jan 1993 20:45:47 GMT

Charlie Fulton <charlie@isis.mit.edu> writes:

>Darts aren't better than pool because 1) you don't have to bend over
>to throw a dart.

#1 in the Top Ten Reasons for Knee-Hi Dartboards in Taverns

The other reasons:

2. Potential for crippling annoying bar patrons with little repercussion
   ('Well, they weren't looking where they were walking!')

3. Allows players to shove faces into crotches of attractive bar
   patrons while reaching between their legs, with excuse that
   they're 'blocking the dartboard'

Oh shit, I can't think of any more... help!

--
thaaang@cwis.unomaha.edu * John Dorrance * Disco Diva y Flamenco Chico

      You would be surprised at what resides in your insides.
From: carlson@ab24.larc.nasa.gov (Ann Carlson)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: Geography (was Capitalization, still dubious MOTSS content)
Date: 7 Jan 1993 14:27:31 GMT
Organization: NASA Langley Research Center, Hampton, VA  USA
Distribution: world
NNTP-Posting-Host: ab24.larc.nasa.gov

In article <C0GKrB.6r9@panix.com>, mara@panix.com (Mara Chibnik) writes:
|> 
|>  >|>  It was very hard to get
|>  >|>used to the idea that where I lived wasn't "Upstate," which ended a
|>  >|>good two hundred miles south of where I lived.
|> 
|> carlson@ab24.larc.nasa.gov (Ann Carlson) writes:
|>  >Brent forgot the fourth part of New York.  There's The City, Lon-Guyland,
|>  >Upstate *and* The North Country.  Mara and I are from The North Country.
|>  >Look on a map, it's just a little south-west of Montreal.
|> 
|> No, that's not (conceptually) part of New York.  That's
|> (conceptually) part of Canada.  Or maybe Greenland.
|> 

Oh oh!  so how does one word the proper answer when asked "Where were you
born?"  I'm not so good at all this "conceptual" stuff, you know...
-- 



*************************************************      
*Dr. Ann B. Carlson (a.b.carlson@larc.nasa.gov) *       O .
*MS 366                                         *         o  _///_ //
*NASA Langley Research Center                   *          <`)=  _<<
*Hampton, VA 23681-0001                         *             \\\  \\
*************************************************
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: fjvwing@cs.vu.nl (FJ!!)
Subject: Re: Bob Paris
Organization: Fac. Wiskunde & Informatica, VU, Amsterdam
Date: Thu, 7 Jan 1993 15:33:08 GMT


"FJ, a couple of years ago, I went through the top-ten of the Mr
Olympia.  Eight of them were hustlers, and they didn't do women."

My source on this is known to exagerate but I got this one perl of
wisdom out of him:

"Look, do you really think that as a man you can slave all day, keep
refining, poses and take the utmost care of yourself like bodybuilders
do, and be _totally_ unintersted by the male body?"

								FJ!!
From: his@the-temple.East.Sun.COM (Howard Solomon - SunExpress Support Engineer)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: long-term relationships...success sto
Date: 4 Jan 1993 21:29:17 GMT
Organization: Sun Microsystems, Inc.
Distribution: world
Reply-To: his@the-temple.East.Sun.COM
NNTP-Posting-Host: the-temple.east.sun.com

In article F6J@agora.rain.com, bcapps@agora.rain.com (Brent Capps) writes:

> Some of these rules we've also used; in addition we have another.
> When one of us is out of town for business or whatever, the other
> partner must have the house spic n' span upon his return.
> -- 
> Brent Capps                          |        

Brent:

How do you work that one?  I come back from a business trip (even the long ones)
and there is no improvement in the "clutter factor".  Please let me in on your
secret.

Howard

---
========================================================================
Howard I. Solomon			|
Software Support Engineer, SunExpress	|
his@east.sun.com			|
=========================================================================

Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: an4782@anon.penet.fi
Subject: Approaching strangers
Organization: Anonymous contact service
X-Anonymously-To: soc.motss
Date: Mon, 11 Jan 1993 16:33:00 GMT

It's not often that I bump into a guy whose looks alone make me desperate
to want to speak to him, but this has been happening over the last few
weeks.  Best of all it's been happening in the changing rooms at the 
campus sports center, so I've had a pretty comprehensive view of the guy,
and I personally think he's stunning.
Normally I wouldn't really pursue the matter any further, as (i) I'm still
closeted, though I don't mind telling other gay people about myself (ii) I
would assume he's straight and so not worth chasing - except I happen to
think his face and body are just absolutely my type!  Furthermore I get
the impression it's not just me peering at him, I sometimes think he is 
stealing glances at me although our eyes seldom meet.  And I don't know
if this is significant, but the guy has unusually classy taste in underwear.
He doesn't wear the standard briefs or boxer shorts that most (British)
guys wear, I think he wears these French-made Hom things; they're grey, have
a cut a bit like Jockey briefs and a wide black waistband.  Anyway, I think
the guy cares about the way his (ample) basket looks when he's stripped
down to bare essentials, which means he's certainly keen on impressing 
someone!
So: what do I do?  I am almost at a point where I want to take the guy 
aside and - no, not for *that* - just say, "Can I ask a personal question;
are you gay?"  Of course the problem is in how he might react if he isn't.
If he's just flattered by my interest and is willing to keep quiet about it
thereafter, fine.  But if he gets upset and, if worst comes to the worst
even wants to use my revelation against me...well that's just no good.
An alternative tactic is not to take the drastic step of asking him point-
blank but to just keep looking at him if we continue to bump into each other,
maybe smile a lot at him as well and hope he gets the picture.
So what do other motss'ers think?  How do you get acquainted with a
mysterious but very attractive stranger?
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Newsgroups: soc.motss