HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: akj <anonymus+2278@godiva.nectar.cs.cmu.edu>
Subject: Re: Laws and Discrimination (was that goddamned Measure 9)
Date: Thu, 05 Nov 92 16:07:40 EST
Organization: godiva.nectar.cs.cmu.edu
X-Useragent: Nuntius v1.1

In article <1213@abb-sc.abb-sc.COM> Ashley, ksm@abb-sc.abb-sc.com writes:
I am sure many of you have seen situations where a less 
>competent candidate for a job recieved the position due to their status
as a 
>minority of some sort. 

Yes, I have seen this happen.

I have seen this occur and I would support 
>legislation to make sure that no one got preferencial treatment, no
matter 
>what color, creed, sex, religion or sexual preference they where. 


I agree - totally


>	A person should not be able to threaten a potential employer with a 
>discrimiation lawsuit to bully them into awarding a job to them if they
are 
>not the best qualified applicant. Although this does not happen often,
and I 
>would rather live with this than the rampant discrimination our current
laws 
>protect us from, I cannot help but feel that there must be a compromise,
a 
>middle ground or a way to safeguard against this.
>
>	Discussion anyone?
>
>				- Ashley


Totally in agreement!  :-)
Newsgroups: alt.pagan
From: Angelica <anonymus+2278@godiva.nectar.cs.cmu.edu>
Subject: Re: Annoying, cloying "wann-be"s
Date: Fri, 06 Nov 92 16:20:24 EST
Organization: godiva.nectar.cs.cmu.edu
X-Useragent: Nuntius v1.1

In article <1215@abb-sc.abb-sc.COM> Ashley, ksm@abb-sc.abb-sc.com writes:
>	Each one of the people who call themselves by any one of these 
>names activly disavows the others and says they are the OneTrueName(tm)
for a 
>sci-fi/fantasy fan. They also calim their version of what the genera is
to 
>be the only accurate name for such. If I call a Trekkie a Fen, or any of
the 
>other names for a sci-fi/fantasy fan they scream. So I gave up after
being 
>yelled at for trying to conform to the desired names. Let the children 
>fight it out amongst themselves. There's a new name every month, so why 
>even try? *Most* (exceptions already noted in previous posts) of the
people 
>involved in this scene are not worth associating with anyway.
>
>			- Ashley


Ashley -

I agree with you and I think they are all just a bunch of dweebs 
(my favorite name for them).  It is time for them to grow up and
stop flaming you - if they put their minds to work, they SHOULD
be able to come up with something a bit more constructive
to do with their time!  

To the dweebs reading this, don't even think of flaming me!
From: GC.GGG@forsythe.stanford.edu (Gwyn Gordon)
Newsgroups: alt.pagan
Subject: Re: Gods for jobless people?
Date: 4 Nov 1992 16:22:32 -0800
Organization: Stanford University
Distribution: usa
NNTP-Posting-Host: morrow.stanford.edu

In article <1911@lysator.liu.se>,
ceci@lysator.liu.se (Cecilia Henningsson) writes:
>My SO is out of a job, and has been so for the past 9 months. I'm
>thinking of doing some kind of ritual or composing a prayer to help
>him get a job. For this I would like to hear about godesses/gods and
>similar creatures who in some way or other have to do with being
>jobless or getting a job. Any and all religions welcome, including
>homemade ones.


"Jambalaya" by Luisa Teish (recently brought up on the net re:
Santeria, I believe) has a nice charm to make. It involves certain
plants, a lot of meditation and some symbolically colored cloth and
thread. Wearing it with either get him a job or start a fashion
trend -- or both.

Good luck!

=gwyn

(ps: almost said "Sangria" rather than "Santeria" -- where IS my
head tonight?)
From: gil@Gilsys.DIALix.oz.au (Gil Hardwick)
Newsgroups: alt.pagan
Subject: DAMN THIS LIE!!!!
Distribution: world
Date: Mon, 09 Nov 92 06:21:39 GMT
Organization: STAFF STRATEGIES - Anthropologists & Training Agents


In article <gate.NyNuTB1w165w@pil.UUCP> alizard@pil.UUCP writes:

 > The US has 3 basic classes of items to sell the world:
 > 1. manufacturing / design capability for goods
 > 2. software in the broadest sense... from the MS-DOS or Unix operating
 > system that makes it possible for you to post to this newsgroup to Madonna
 > books, CDs, and videos
 > 3. food
 >  
 > Note that moral leadership isn't on the list. However, I can't think of any
 > country on Earth that is a major vendor for moral leadership... and so what?
 > If you don't like US products, don't buy them.

HHHHHHHHHHHHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA!

Outstanding contribution to modern pagan philosophy, Lizard! If I keep
this up I have no doubt some classics will emerge . . .

--
Gil Hardwick                                      gil@Gilsys.DIALix.oz.au
Independent Consulting Ethnologist                            3:690/660.6
PERTH, Western Australia                                 (+61 9) 399 2401
   * * Sustainable Community Development & Environmental Education * *
Newsgroups: alt.pagan,alt.magick
From: eshin@ddsw1.mcs.com (Eshin-Fun)
Subject: Re: Santeria and Voodoun
Date: Tue, 10 Nov 1992 12:05:59 GMT
Organization: ddsw1.MCS.COM Contributor, Chicago IL
X-Newsreader: Tin 1.1 PL3

>>eddie@hermes.oit.unc.edu (Edward M. Averett) writes:

>waste of redundant bandwith deleted]: 
>>: Mr. Eshin-Fun does seem to know more about Santeria than some other topics
: he has written on. I don't agree with a substantial part of it, but I have
: also not had an opportunity to study his own sources.  Nonetheless, the 
: general line of conversation has not been very illuminating up so far. 
: 
: 			I serve the Loa, 
: 				Edward M. Averett
: 				Bunny with a Thousand Faces...<<


Do I detect a tinge of jaundiced envy?
.....whaaa, your babalawo???? since when do Voodounists that believe in loas
have babalaos? You do say you serve the loa....which?? 

Your eccletic synchronicity betrays not only your vast ignorance but your
conceited conclusions that leave far more to be desired that Migene
Gonzalez-Wippler's books on an attempt to capitalize on American audiences'
interest on Santeria!

You don't even know my gender. I deliberately not made that clear. So where
do you assume I am a Mr.? 

Before you go off and venemnously go off to spout dribbles of misleading
opinions go to the library yourself, or better yet play in the traffic and
see if >your< `babalao' will have better advise for you then.

Joseph Capbell is a nice drop but unfortunately his interest do not have as
much of an impact as Fernando Ortiz who wrote profusely on the
subject....but then again I don't think you can read spanish let alone
french where a better source of material exists.

I >have< noticed that several libraries painfully lack boks on santeria,
either because the librarians take them off the shelves or because the
readers rip them off. Very few libraries carry anything worth while.

 Eshin-fun

: 
: 
Newsgroups: alt.pagan
From: aph016@cch.coventry.ac.uk (ozzy)
Subject: Re: How the hell can religion and action not be related?
Organization: Coventry University, Coventry, UK.
Date: Thu, 12 Nov 1992 08:50:49 GMT

In article <1992Nov11.080024.28199@hpcvaac.cv.hp.com> billn@hpcvaac.cv.hp.com (bill nelson) writes:
>markbr%radian@natinst.com (markbr) writes:
>: >: 
>: >: That's right. Christianity teaches that man has dominion over the earth and
>: >: non-Christians are doomed to Christian Hell and all other religions are
>: >: Christian Devil worship and a good Christian must seek to convert the world
>: >: to the "Absolute Truth" of Christianity. When Jesus became blond, Europeans
>: >: adopted Christianity as justification that they should rule the earth and
>: >: all should be converted to European culture. "Convert or die" is the motto.
                                 ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Errrrhummmm, Dont blame the Europeans, we at least were ready to compromise
at the rio world summit, which is a hell of a lot more than America was
prepared to do! As for everyone being converted to the European culture, I 
thought loads of people were trying to emulate an American standard of living.


>: >: Luke 14:26 is the justification. "Fair trade" meaning the right to rape.

Dont twist the words of the bible. I may not be christian, but I do believe
in not knocking other peoples beliefs, ours are just as easily knocked.


>: >No, all Christianity does not teach that. The fundamentalist sects certainly
>: >do so - many others do not.
>: >
>: >Bill
>: 
>: How about the RC's, and their financing toward the anti-choice candidates
>: on the west coast? And then, of course, there's the Morons, er, Mormons
>: (well, their beliefs *were* revealed by the angel Moroni...(B-)} ). 
>: *sigh*

Any mass-organised religion is crap. Its what within the person that counts.

>As I stated - some do. Your response has not shown that to be false.
>
>Bill

Way to go Bill, why is that there are so many pagans that have a hate for
christians just because they are christian?

Bb
                     -ozzy
From: GC.GGG@forsythe.stanford.edu (Gwyn Gordon)
Newsgroups: alt.pagan
Subject: Re: raising children
Date: 5 Nov 1992 09:32:23 -0800
Organization: Stanford University
Distribution: usa
NNTP-Posting-Host: morrow.stanford.edu

In article <1992Nov5.062046.29558@oucsace.cs.ohiou.edu>,
bwhite@oucsace.cs.ohiou.edu (William E. White ) writes:
>In article <1d9qdlINNino@morrow.stanford.edu> GC.GGG@forsythe.stanford.edu (Gwyn Gordon) writes:
>
>>This is patently false. "Traditional" families make up LESS THAN 30%
>>of American families. Less. Than. 30. Percent.

>
>I do, however, want more detail on the "less than 30%" figure.  I have
>seen it before, along with refutations which have argued that the figure
>commonly quoted (I don't know its original source either) used a misleading
>definition of "traditional" (I think in the particular case, any family
>that had, at any time, involved the parents living separately, was regarded
>as a nontraditional family).

The "traditional" family was based on Father+Mother+kids, nothing
mentioned about living situations. I guess I'd assume they're all
living in the same house, but.......?

>Also, this depends on area.  In many areas, dual hetero parenting is very
>much still the norm.

Yes, but 'the norm' means 'societal norm,' right? Whereas 'majority'
is an objective statistical number, right?

=gg
Newsgroups: alt.pagan
From: aaldrich@encore.com (Al Aldrich)
Subject: Re: Monogamy, Polygamy, and raising children (Was: Falling in Love
Organization: Encore Computer Corporation
Date: Fri, 13 Nov 1992 13:02:23 GMT

Steve.Dugas@iphase.infoserv.com (Steve Dugas) writes:

>     I have seen a lot in here about single parent v/s 2 parents, but
> not much mention of more than that.  What are the advantages of more
> adults in the home?  In older times, the grandparents quite often
> lived in the home or close by and took a lot of the child care duties
> while the parents worked.  That doesn't often exist today, but what
> of pleural marriages?  Does anyone have enough experience in that to
> give us some insite?  This seems to be the ideal solution, if the
> adults can keep their unity and love alive.  This would surly give
> the children a lot more experience observing interpersonal
> relationships which could better prepare them to go out into the
> world when they are grown (hopefully with fewer hangups than most).

I completely agree with this. As you may have heard me say before, it is
our intention to move into a house-sharing situation with a lesbian couple
who happen to be our closest friends. Our kids love them and vice-versa
and it is expected that we will all share the kid raising responsibilities
and fun. I know this can work because I have seen it before in 
`communal' or `community' situations before when it was not apparent to
me who were the parents of the several adults interacting with the kids.
I actually had to ask who the parents were. The kids in this situation
were well adjusted, happy, caring, polite and seemingly secure. on the
other hand, I have seen similar situations where the kids were frantic,
bratty and self possesed and extremely insecure. I don't know what the
key differences were, but it appeared to me that in the former
situation, all of the adults involved got along very well together and
did not pay a lot of particular attention to the children unless it
was required. In the latter situation, the children got a LOT of attention
but the adults didn't agree on anything.. constant arguments.

This seems to support the theory that some have that the best way to
raise happy healthy children is to pay more attention to the relationship
than to the child. If, in a 2 parent home, the relationship stinks, the
child is not going to be happy. Is it better then, to `fix' that by
making it 1 parent? Yes.. I think so. In other words, I don't think the
number or gender of parents matters so much as how they get along.
I don't believe more is better by default. If there IS a good relationship
though, I think the diversity of experience and learning is great.

Blessed Be
al

-- 
Al Aldrich	inet:aaldrich@encore.com
"..if you understood everything I said, you'd be me." miles davis
----------------------------------------------------------------------
MY opinions are not to be construed as those of my employer.
From: michael@albert.bu.edu (Michael Chaplin)
Newsgroups: alt.pagan
Subject: Re: that goddamned Measure 9
Date: 5 Nov 92 21:37:06 GMT
	<Bx92tG.AzH@access.digex.com> <MICHAEL.92Nov5161213@albert.bu.edu>
Organization: Boston University
In-reply-to: michael@albert.bu.edu's message of 5 Nov 92 21:12:13 GMT

In article <MICHAEL.92Nov5161213@albert.bu.edu> michael@albert.bu.edu (Michael Chaplin) writes:
  =In looking over the question (It's reprinted in the NY Times of
  =5 Nov. 92 (Today))- It *is* worded such that not passing it would
  =disallow "preferential treatment" to gays, bi's, and lesbians, as opposed
   ^^^^^^^^
I'm sorry- that should be "allow"...

  =to them receiving equal treatment. However, its wording is structured
  =such that passing it *would* deny them _equal_treatment_.
  =In other words: it was a lose-lose situation.

Whoops,
Chaplin.
--
=========================================================================
Michael A. Chaplin           If you want *their* opinions, ask *them*.
michael@albert.bu.edu ....The Einstein Papers Project, Boston, Mass., USA
chaplin@husc.harvard.edu ....Harvard University, Cambridge, Mass., USA
From: pharvey@mipos3.intel.com (Paul Harvey)
Newsgroups: alt.pagan
Subject: Madonna was Tipper Gore? was the US elections...
Date: 13 Nov 92 19:44:40 GMT
	<2B005554.20979@news.service.uci.edu> <74213@apple.apple.COM>
Organization: in -sist! that your mode is on scramble, remember the skips and enter the sample

In article <74213@apple.apple.COM> russell@Apple.COM (Russell Williams) writes:
>I never paid much attention to Madonna because I didn't care for her
>music. But I went to see her film, Truth or Dare, and was extremely
>impressed. "Slut" or not, she's no passive sex object; not a vapid,

Actually, the MTV full-length parody of Truth or Dare is *much* better. But,
I can't remember the title, maybe someone else does, it's on VCR. So, we go
to Japan and it turns out it's right in the middle of the monsoon season, I
can't believe nobody knew that!
From: lib1p@jane.uh.edu (Tammy Stark Blandino)
Newsgroups: alt.pagan
Subject: Re: Pagan Bumper Stickers
Date: 12 Nov 92 13:47:00 GMT
Organization: University of Houston
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41

In article <1992Nov8.175029.29508@pasteur.Berkeley.EDU>, radzy@ICSI.Berkeley.EDU (T. O. Radzykewycz) writes...
>I (radzy) said:
>>I've seen "blessed Be" and "An it Harm None" bumperstickers at Sci-Fi cons...
> 
>lrfox@silver.ucs.indiana.edu (linda ream fox) writes:
>> This does not necessarily mean that the person with the sticker isn't a pagan.
> 
>No, but the fact that you can *buy* those bumper stickers at Sci-Fi
>cons does imply that not everyone who has such a bumper sticker
>(on their car) is pagan.  Because of this, I'm uncomfortable trying
>to use bumper sticker sales as a measure of how many pagans there are.
> 
>Like I said earlier, "An it harm none" and "Practice random acts of
>kindness" are not implicitly pagan.  There are sources for these that
>are outside of the typical pagan circles (pun not intended).
> 
>Blessings!
> 
>		-- radzy


I'd like to get in on this one.....

As both a pagan and an SF fan (who does the convention thing), I
have found that there is a higher proportion of pagans among SF
people that in the populous in general.  In fact it was one such
SF friend of mine that introduced it to me.  Many of the pagans
I first knew where SF friends of mine.

Given this one must ask why.  I believe it is because SF people
have the ability (as someone once put it) to "consider alternate
possibilities".  This is necessary to break from the religion of
your parents and take a different path.

"Consider alternate possibilities"

Think about it a little. 

Also think about how the average person is unable to do so.

Now, lets re-evaluate the fact that pagan bumper stickers are
found at SF conventions.

Tammy
Xref: sparky alt.pagan:12417 alt.magick:5689
From: pharvey@mipos3.intel.com (Paul Harvey)
Newsgroups: alt.pagan,alt.magick
Subject: Re: Santeria
Date: 5 Nov 92 23:00:04 GMT
	<68938@cup.portal.com>
Organization: and off that bud I was doing the things they hadn't heard of ...

In article <68938@cup.portal.com> 
Tagi@cup.portal.com (Thyagi Morgoth NagaSiva) writes:
>"I wanna be loved by you
>By you, and nobody else but you.
>I wanna be loved by you alooooone.
>Boop-oop-ee-doo!"
>Dunno the name of the song, but Marilyn Monroe is the one I
>remember who sang it. ;>

Hmm, I'm thinkin' Betty Boop which proceeds Norma Jean.
Newsgroups: alt.pagan
From: ag055@yfn.ysu.edu (Ward Chanley)
Subject: Re: Women and Men Witches
Organization: Youngstown State University/Youngstown Free-Net
Date: Mon, 9 Nov 1992 04:59:25 GMT


Re: Will changing from one extreme (patriarchy) to the other
(matriarchy) change anything?

To paraphrase Raine Eisler, and Z Budapest, yes.

I have a fundamental belief that men and women are different 
animals, and that women in power use power differently.  Maybe
this is socialization, maybe it's genetic; but looking at 
the situation we're in after 5,000 years or so of patriarchal 
rule, I'd say it's time to start considering some alternatives.
The closest thing we have to matriarchy these days is Women's
Spirituality, and it remains committed to fighting racism,
sexism (not all Dianic groups are women-only, BTW), homophobia
and other exclusionary systems of thought.

It's also worth noting that the most vocal proponents of those
systems of thought are patriarchal men.

-- 
Newsgroups: alt.pagan
From: crime@grind.cheme.cmu.edu (W. Scott Shannon)
Subject: flames
Organization: Grind Systems, Inc.
Date: Wed, 11 Nov 1992 04:39:04 GMT
X-Posted-From: grind.cheme.cmu.edu
NNTP-Posting-Host: sol.ctr.columbia.edu


This may seem like a childish, simplistic attitude....

But wouldn't it just be great, if everyone could just respect
eachothers opinions, and be nice to eachother for a change?
I knnowpstack 
I know... I know....
It's so much more fun to have really big arguments that go on
for dozens and dozens of postings...
But whats the popstack 
But what's the point?
I'm learning a lot from those of you who post intellligently...

Thanks to you...
as to the flamers..... I try to skip your  articles... but can't
always tell...
being nice can be fun....
Let's all try it, huh?
Scoott
Live for now.. The past is gone,  and the future's too far away.

Keyboard is stipstack 
ill FUBAR
pstack 
please try to reread wpstack 
around tthe errors...z.
From: alizard@pil
Newsgroups: alt.pagan
Subject: re: the US elections...
Date: 12 Nov 92 10:43:53 GMT

Re: Re: the US elections...
By: altheimm #0 @nextnet.csus.edu (Murray Altheim) USEnet      
 
> From: altheimm@nextnet.csus.edu (Murray Altheim)
> Newsgroups: alt.pagan
> Subject: Re: the US elections...
> Date: Wed, 11 Nov 1992 17:59:26 GMT
> >They are to PROTECT us FROM the government.
> I agree that it was written with the intent to allow a civilian population
> to arm against a tyranny, but we've long since passed the point where this
> is possible.
> >And the people reading this group in particular should consider this. It is
> >far from being a remote possibility that the government WILL come after us.
> Well, you're pretty misled if you think you or any number of your friends
> can take on the US government in a gunfight. First you'll battle ALL the
> local police, then the county, then the state police, then the National
> who thinks they can stand up to the might of the entire US police and
> military establishment is delusionary.

The only flaw I can see in this argument is that if things had gotten to
the point that large numbers of organized people were actively at shooting
war with the government, the local police/federal law enforcement
agencies/military would almost certainly not provide a united front for any
length of time. Particularly if the central government engaged in atrocities
against its own people to maintain power. (why else would people be organizing
armed resistance against the government) 

So an armed resistance against genuine oppression would be helped by leaks
from inside government, probably by supplies from supporters working at
armories and depots... 

I'm relieved to say that this discussion is theoretical at this point, the
only uses we currently have to worry about are sport-recreation, personal
protection, hunting, and those are perfectly reasonable rationales for owning
guns up to and including the semi-automatic kind.

blessings
                                                 A.Lizard
====== 93 ====== mea saurus, mea saurus, mea maxima saurus! ====== 93 ======
                  (slogan contributed by Jessica McGeary)
Mail to me should be sent to:       |  There are no fnords in this sig file.
alizard%tweekco%boo@PacBell.COM     |  autoreply to address I posted this
     ^^^ preferred site ^^^         |  from only if you want to wait a
PacBell.COM!boo!tweekco!alizard     |  solstice or two for my answer.
alizard@seer.mystic.com(backup site)|              Kallisti!
From: pharvey@mipos3.intel.com (Paul Harvey)
Newsgroups: alt.pagan
Subject: Re: Oregon Vote Results
Date: 6 Nov 92 21:23:22 GMT
Organization: they cain't relate but i ain't one to front on my one kind, ain't nothin' but a sign in the hills ...

In article <gate.895RTB1w165w@pil.UUCP> alizard@pil.UUCP writes:
>Any residents of CO want to give us a list of targets for boycott? All I
>can think of if Micron Technology (DRAMs) and a unit of Hewlett-Packard,
                 ^^^^^^ Idaho, funded by potato money
>I don't know what it makes. Yet.
Xref: sparky alt.pagan:12646 alt.magick:5773