HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: noring@netcom.com (Jon Noring)
Subject: Re: Advice Wanted on Home Workout Equipment
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services  (408 241-9760 guest) 
Date: Tue, 10 Nov 1992 01:48:30 GMT

In article glex@nitro.cray.com (Jeff Gleixner) writes:

>> as well as the family.  Since I intend to get my cardiovascular workout from
>> sports such as tennis, table tennis, bicycling, and strenuous climbing, I'm

>FYI: The sports listed above, not including bicycling, are not going to do
>much for you aerobic/cardiovascular wise.  They are short duration, anerobic 
>type exercises.  So don't count on them to help you lose weight, or strengthen
>your heart, they will help fight bordom.

My cardiovascular system is fit enough.  I'll compare my cardiovascular
fitness with most other men my age and younger (age 37, blood pressure 105/65,
rest pulse 55 and lower, cholesterol 110-120, excellent HDL/LDL ratio,
optimal body fat, and I don't diet at all, I eat like a horse).  Not only
will I out eat anybody here and maintain optimal weight, I'll out hike
anybody here on strenuous vertical Class II and III climbs in the High
Sierra.  I do need, however, muscle toning, especially upper-body and that is
the reason for my post.  Anyway, from the most very recent statistical
evidence that I've seen of factors for *longevity* (Harvard Medical School?),
one does not need to exercise at anywhere near the levels once believed just
a couple of years ago to maintain adequate cardiovascular fitness for
maximizing longevity (to the chagrin of those fitness fanatics who spend
inordinate amounts of time to "keep in shape").  Methinks that many people
overdo so-called cardiovascular fitness programs;  if they enjoy doing it,
fine, but if they're obsessed, they should probably see a therapist.  Let's
keep in touch 60 years from now - I definitely intend to live to a hundred
(I've got excellent genes) and want to die at the hands of a very jealous
husband. :^)

Jon "living to a 100 if it kills me" Noring


Please, I'd still like to get recommendations as to workout equipment.

-- 
=============================================================================
| Jon Noring          | noring@netcom.com        | "The dogs bark, but the  |
| JKN International   | IP    : 192.100.81.100   |  caravan moves on."      |
| 1312 Carlton Place  | Phone : (510) 294-8153   | "Pack your lunch, sit in |
| Livermore, CA 94550 | V-Mail: (510) 862-1101   |  the bushes, and watch." |
=============================================================================
"If your annual income today is $50,000, you have the same buying power as
the average coal miner did in 1949, adjusted for taxes and inflation," John
Sestina, nationally recognized Certified Financial Planner;  quoted in 1987.

------->   I VOTED FOR PEROT IN '92
------->   support UNITED WE STAND!
From: nyp00@cd.amdahl.com (Nicholas Y. Pang)
Newsgroups: misc.consumers
Subject: Re: IKEA MAIL ORDER: YES!!!
Date: 11 Nov 92 19:54:01 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: Amdahl Corporation, Sunnyvale CA

In article <1drhk7INN1pi@usenet.INS.CWRU.Edu>, jxs18@po.CWRU.Edu (Jerry
Sy) writes:

|> Let the Buyers Beware !!  Don't Go For it as the original poster advised
|> or you'll be sorry!

It's meant for people who have asked about IKEA mail order. I don't approve
or disapprove IKEA merchandise, just a satisfied customer since 1987 when I
first bought a coffee table from them in Vancouver, B.C. (the paint is still
holding up after all these years and I have two sons abusing it daily!).

-- 
Nicholas Pang         nyp00@cd.amdahl.com       
Amdahl Corporation    nyp00@outs.ccc.amdahl.com 
Newsgroups: misc.consumers
From: jfurr@nyx.cs.du.edu (Joel Furr)
Subject: Re: Nope again (was Re: Yup, Amway's a scam)
X-Disclaimer: Nyx is a public access Unix system run by the University
	of Denver for the Denver community.  The University has neither
	control over nor responsibility for the opinions of users.
Organization: Nyx, Public Access Unix at U. of Denver Math/CS dept.
Date: Sat, 7 Nov 92 03:49:05 GMT

In article <2070033@hpkslx.mayfield.HP.COM> lou@hpkslx.mayfield.HP.COM (Lou Kvitek) writes:
>In misc.consumers, abulloch@garnet.berkeley.edu (Anthony Bulloch) writes:
>
>> the company could in practice stamp out such practice if they
>> wanted to) with Amway.
>
>That would be impossible to police.  We're talking about 1 Million
>distributors in the US.  How does Espial or NuSkin 'stamp it out'?  
>
>> But, no, I don't think you _will_ find anyone in Nu Skin or
>> Espial using this kind of dissimulation; more than likely
>> the individuals who are in Amway that employ deception of this
>> kind wouldn't want to be in Nu Skin or Espial anyway: but if
>
>Why not?  These unscrupulous people merely see what the power of 
>building a large MLM business can do.  Why should they care what 
>product they are moving?  Seems to me they want to generate their
>volume by continually signing up new people (very short sighted).
>
>> they did sign up with either of those companies I think it's
>> _very_ unlikely that they would use the same recruitment
>> 'methods'. 1) they would be trained differently; 2) what you
>> might call the ethos of these companies is very different.
>
>Training is great if the trainee listens and applies it, but we
>are all in our own business and are free to ignore any and all 
>training if we so choose. 
>
>I don't know what 'ethos' means (philosophy?), but are you suggesting
>that Amway would train its people to be deceptive?  Oh-oh Anthony,
>I don't think that's what you mean.  Amway's reputation as a corporation
>is unimpeachable - 33 years in business with volume over $4 BILLION,
>environmental awards from the UN, founders consulted by US Presidents
>on business issues, etc, etc.  You don't achieve what Amway has achieved
>by having bad business practices (ie, a poor philosophy).

Unimpeachable?  Give me a break!  Amway's reputation is SO BAD that they
go out of their way to conceal who they are.
From: nyp00@cd.amdahl.com (Nicholas Y. Pang)
Newsgroups: misc.consumers
Subject: IKEA MAIL ORDER: YES!!!
Keywords: IKEA mail order
Date: 11 Nov 92 16:31:38 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: Amdahl Corporation, Sunnyvale CA

Thanks for all the responses regarding IKEA Mail Order. I guess nobody has
done any mail ordering with IKEA. Their 1993 catalog specifically say that
IKEA is not a mail oder house. I didn't want to give up. I know that 
Christine (response to Internet if you are reading this) from IKEA mentioned 
sometime back that they are starting mail order soon.

I called IKEA Burbank (CA) and they ARE taking mail orders! 

(1) Get the latest catalog (I sent a $3 check to the Burbank branch). It takes
    about a week.

(2) Call up Customer Service. They will take mail orders. Their Shipping Dept
    will call you back in 3 days to tell you what the shipping costs are.
    Carriers include UPS and Ryder.

(3) I haven't odered yet but will do so before Thanksgiving so no experience
    with how long it take for the merchandise to arrive.

(4) They don't ship glass/china/breakables etc.

(5) Go for it!


                 PLEASE POST EXPERIENCES/UPDATES!!!

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Nicholas Pang         nyp00@cd.amdahl.com       
Amdahl Corporation    nyp00@outs.ccc.amdahl.com
From: ray.normandeau@factory.com (Ray Normandeau) 
Newsgroups: misc.consumers
Subject: HAIR REMOVAL DEVICES (EP
Date: 6 Nov 92 20:57:00 GMT
Distribution: world
Organization: Invention Factory's BBS - New York City, NY - 212-274-8298v.32bis
Reply-To: ray.normandeau@factory.com (Ray Normandeau) 

-> My wife is interested in one of these "Epilady" devices but would
-> like some opinions from others. Are they effective? Do they hurt? How
-> long before the hairs regrow? There is also another device which
-> looks like an electrolysis gadget (called "Finally Free"). Is this
-> similar to the Epilady? The ad says it doesn't hurt - but does it?
-> How long before the hairs regrow?

As a professional product demonstrator the Epilady is one of the
products that I have demonstrated.
Baiscally it is electric tweezers that tweezes a clump of hair at a
time.
Some people love it
Some people hate it.

Try out a friend's first.
One F W Woolworth in NYC area was clearing them out at $6.95 (about 90%
off).
From: egreen@east.sun.com (Ed Green - Pixel Cruncher)
Newsgroups: misc.consumers
Subject: Re: Financial records (how long to keep?)
Date: 10 Nov 1992 15:16:27 GMT
Organization: Sun Microsystems, RTP, NC
Distribution: world
Reply-To: egreen@east.sun.com
NNTP-Posting-Host: laser.east.sun.com

In article 1dm5n0INNlq6@uwm.edu, fino@point.cs.uwm.edu (Alexander Finogenov) writes:
>In article <1992Nov7.221625.29262@cbfsb.cb.att.com> vinlai@cbnewsb.cb.att.com (vincent.lai) writes:
>: I'd like to know how long should I keep records like my paycheck stubs,
>: my bank statements, etc.  They're accumulating to the point where I have
>: to do some housecleaning.  What's the recommended rule of thumb?

Seven years.

---
Ed Green, former Ninjaite |I was drinking last night with a biker,
  Ed.Green@East.Sun.COM   |and I showed him a picture of you.  I said,
DoD #0111  (919)460-8302  |"Go on, get to know her, you'll like her!"
 (The Grateful Dead) -->  |It seemed like the least I could do...

Newsgroups: misc.consumers
From: mpalmer@encore.com (Mike Palmer)
Subject: Re: FORD visa vs. DISCOVER
Organization: Encore Computer Corporation
Date: Thu, 5 Nov 1992 13:41:10 GMT

nfs@elan (Norbert Schlenker) writes:

>In article <1992Nov3.173729.1@vaxb.acs.unt.edu> ff76@vaxb.acs.unt.edu writes:
>>
>>That's correct.  I should have pointed that out.  DISCOVER's cash back rates
>>are tiered.  The cash back rate for expenditures up to $1000is 0.25 percent. 
>>For the second $1000 it is 0.5 percent, for the third $1000 it is 0.75 percent. 
>>For expenditures over $3000, it is 1 percent...
>>
>>So for folks who pay off their monthly balances and charge over $3,000 a year,
>>*DISCOVER pays a higher amount of cash back*.  FORD visa pays 1.5 percent
>>*only* when you carry forward a monthly balance.  Then, it's not a cash back
>>anymore (even if they call it that).  It then becomes a minute rebate on the
>>enormous interest rate typical of charge cards.
>>
>>Any disgreements?

>Sure, I'll disagree.  Am I the only one who has one of these cards?
>Are you getting a commission on the issuance of Discover cards?

>I quote from the Ford cardholder agreement:

>  "The annual rebate is earned by using the Card for purchases; it is not
>   earned for cash advances. ... In each anniversary year, the amount of
>   your annual rebate is: 

>     - 1/2% of the first $1,000 of net purchases
>     - 3/4% of the second $1,000 of net purchases
>     - 1% of the third $1,000 of net purchases
>     - 1 1/2% of the amount of net purchases in excess of $3,000"

>The rebate is uniformly better than Discover, for a card that is
>useful at many more places.  I confirmed these terms with customer
>service at 800-638-FORD ten minutes ago.

>Followups to misc.consumers only - this has nothing to do with investing.

>Norbert
>nfs@cs.princeton.edu
Newsgroups: misc.consumers
From: georgec@eng.umd.edu (George B. Clark)
Subject: Re: Nope again (was Re: Yup, Amway's a scam)
Date: Sat, 07 Nov 92 14:42:50 GMT
Organization: University of Maryland

In article   writes:
>hp.com!fritz
>From: fritz@fc.sde.hp.com (Gary Fritz)
>
>Lon, if someone called you a thief and a child molester in a public forum,
>wouldn't you be tempted to try to clear your name? 
>
>In the case of this particular discussion (the "Yup, Amway's a scam"
>thread), it started with an unprovoked attack.  Most of the "incessant
>yammering" STARTS with the non-MLMers, NOT with the MLMers.

I followed this Amway/MLM thread about 3 weeks ago, and today I'm
looking at again for the first time since then. Gary was the focal point of 
the argument then, and I see Gary is still the focal point now.

Gary, "trying to clear your name" and insisting on having the last word
are not the same, and you haven't learned the difference.

By always insisting on having the last word, you yourself become the fuel and 
the focal point for this endless discussion. Others come and go, but you are
always here like a permanent fixture. 

We know where you stand, and we give you credit for stating some informed
opinions about MLM, even though some of us disagree. But it is time to let it
be, and let others pursue your cause with new personalities and fresh
ideas, if there are others who care to.

And Gary, please. Don't retort with a point-by-point rebuttal. Everyone
knows how you feel, and we know what you are going to say, even before
you say it.

At this point, if you really want to impress us, the best way to do so
would be to say nothing at all. Show us that you, too, are someone who
has learned how to state an opinion without insisting on having the
last word.
From: lstowell@pyrnova.mis.pyramid.com (Lon Stowell)
Newsgroups: misc.consumers
Subject: Re: Nope again (was Re: Yup, Amway's a scam)
Date: 6 Nov 92 21:17:16 GMT
Reply-To: lstowell@pyrnova.pyramid.com (Lon Stowell)
Organization: Pyramid Technology Corp., Mountain View, CA

>wrote:
>:    And few 7-11 owners bore the heck out of the newsnet with
>:    incessant yammering about whether or not their product is or is
>:    not a scam...as if anyone with a life really gave a rat.
>
In article <BxAyn7.JHw@fc.sde.hp.com> fritz@fc.sde.hp.com (Gary Fritz) writes:

>Lon, if someone called you a thief and a child molester in a public forum,
>wouldn't you be tempted to try to clear your name?  Most of the
>"incessant yammering" is started because 1) someone asks an innocent
>question, 2) some rabid anti-MLM person jumps in with the pronouncement
>that all MLMs are scams and all MLM people are slime, 3) the MLM people
>say "Hold on a second here," and 4) it degrades from there.
>
   No, most of the time it is some MLM'er who doesn't have the
   decency and good taste to take the discussion to another board.

>In the case of this particular discussion (the "Yup, Amway's a scam"
>thread), it started with an unprovoked attack.  Most of the "incessant
>yammering" STARTS with the non-MLMers, NOT with the MLMers.
>
    Hmmmmmm, "unprovoked" in whose opinion.   

    Perhaps if the AMWAY bigots would cease their incessant postings
    of "marvelous career opportunities" they wouldn't BE so soundly
    attacked every time they post.

    And, although there are mixed opinions on the quality of AMWAY's
    products, their recruitment and marketing techniques exhibited
    on the net, and in any contact I've personally had with them,
    certainly are of a style that raises the "scam alert" flag.

    If you don't like being termed a thief and child molester, how
    about being up front with the NAME AND NATURE of what it is you
    are talking about when "you" post?  After all, if you are
    wandering around playgrounds and/or or carrying a jimmy, please
    don't be offended if someone makes the obvious assumption.

    Oh, and PLEASE stifle the typical cross-posting impules...and
    take it to alt.scam or whatever the name of that mlm board is.
From: cp01081@dcsc.dla.mil (Eric A Yruegas)
Newsgroups: misc.consumers
Subject: Buying a house
Keywords: mortgage house
Date: 9 Nov 92 13:59:42 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: Defense Construction Supply Center, Columbus

Hello net.home-buyer.collective.widsom!

My wife and I are thinking of buying a "starter home" sometime in the next
year to year and a half.  Hopefully the interest rates won't skyrocket in
that timeframe (wishful thinking, right?).

We are a young couple with combined income in the high-$30k range.  Looking
to purchase a house in the $35k to $45k range (which we think is quite 
affordable at current rates).

Question is:  what's the best way to go about all this?  Does anyone have
information on "First time home-buyer" plans/incentives?  How much should we
plan on paying as downpayment?  15yr vs. 30yr mortgages?  Work equity? (Pro-
bably doesn't apply to "used" homes, right?)

Well - that's more than one question :), but I want us to be prepared.  I
don't want to walk into a realtor's office with my guard down.

Thanks in advance!  Email replies appreciated - will post summary if there's
interest...

Eric
cp01081@dcsc.dla.mil
From: fino@point.cs.uwm.edu (Alexander Finogenov)
Newsgroups: misc.consumers
Subject: Re: Insurance Agent
Date: 5 Nov 1992 19:10:52 GMT
Organization: University of Wisconsin, Milwaukee
NNTP-Posting-Host: 129.89.2.5

In article <1992Nov5.162853.23441@cs.brown.edu> del@cs.brown.edu (David E. Langworthy) writes:
: Does anyone have suggestions on selecting an insurance agent?  I am
: looking for a combination renter's/auto/umbrella policy.
: 
: Dave
: del@cs.brown.edu

I think that an insurer (insurance company) is much more important than
an agent.

Talk to several agents. After you get quotas on policies from several insurers,
ask around if anybody had a problem with them getting claims paid. After all
any insurance is as good as actual benefits you can get under it. I prefer to
pay more for a policy I'm completely confident in being enforceable without any
significant efforts from my side.

After you've made your pick read your policy carefully and make sure you
understand EVERYTHING in it.

I prefer American Family Insurance. I had an accident many years ago
and had only couple conversations with them over the phone and never heard
about this again - they took care of everything. They are a bit expensive,
but you get what you've paid for.

Alex
Lines: 58
From: bill@bilver.uucp (Bill Vermillion)
Subject: Re: SANTRON 5 OF 5
Organization: W. J. Vermillion - Winter Park, FL
Date: Mon, 9 Nov 1992 16:08:55 GMT

In article <4370.25.uupcb@uttsbbs.uucp> paul's.friend@uttsbbs.uucp (Paul'S Friend)  writes:
>Santron, Part V of V: The Nightmare Ends (almost).

>     Like all good stories and 90210 episodes, we have to end
>with a moral, so here it is:

>     If you should ever happen to call Santron to order
>something,  .....
>Check
>out their policy on adding cards to the computer, (you might want
>to add or replace a modem one day).  Check out if they use new or
>used parts for repairs.  Check out how long they take for repairs
>and what they will do if they can't get the right parts,
>especially under warranty.  Check out what they actually mean by
>"one year full warranty" and what happens to the level of service
>as the end of that year approaches.  And remember, whatever the
>salespeople tell you, GET IT IN WRITING.  It may not help much at
>repair time, but at least you and the judge can have a good laugh
>later.
>                                                                      

The above should apply to any dealing not just with 'Santron'
line.

Now - since your friend is a computer consultant (I also call
myself the same thing - but I do wish there was a name that had
a better reputation - something at least as good as "used car
salesman") he should really have known better.

Isn't that what a consultant is all about.

And if you absolutely depend on a machine to make a living -
buying the cheapest is probably not the way to go.

Spend a bit more - get a brand name on the front (even a clone
brand name such as Packard Bell, Zeos, Gateway, Dell, or a
zillion others) - and get a service contract on it.

I have picked up clients from consultants whose main motto
seems to 'the cheapest we can find - at any price'.
Those are the machines that seem to fail and something is
non-standard so the end-user has to pay more for repairs than
neccesary.

Your portable story reminds me of another local consultant who
had many problems with a machine.  One vendor had shipped a
motherboard with bootlegs proms.   He got replacements from the
original designed in return for a signed letter detailing the
previous purchase.  He finally got his machine, a luggable with
a plasma display like your firends, operational after about 6 months
of putzing around.

Losing only a few hours of billable time would usually make up
for paying a few dollars more at the outset.   

You get what you pay for - but in the cheap clone business -
you often don't even get that.


-- 
Bill Vermillion - bill@bilver.oau.org  bill.vermillion@oau.org
                - bill@bilver.uucp 
                - ..!{peora|tous|tarpit}!bilver!bill

Newsgroups: misc.consumers,alt.drugs
From: thomasr@cpqhou.compaq.com (Thomas Rush)
Subject: Re: Doctor ripoff, or just reality?
Reply-To: thomasr@cpqhou.compaq.com (Thomas Rush)
Organization: Compaq Computer Corporation
Date: Thu, 12 Nov 92 20:26:54 GMT

In article <Uf0C8uW00YUnQ1TElU@andrew.cmu.edu> "Bartley R. Troyan" <bt26+@andrew.cmu.edu> writes:
>>         We expect that this stuff will be covered by the health
>> insurance company, but we are still a bit enraged at this pricing.
>> 
>>         So tell me, is this normal, or is the doctor screwing
>> us over?
> 
>Of course it's normal--all doctors screw you over (well, most).
>The dermatologist I went to charged me I don't know how much ($100 or
>so) to remove a wart, but she didn't do it right and it came back
>anyway.
> 
>The costs just keep going up and we keep paying them in the form of
>more costly insurance...and the insurance companies try to screw you
>too by refusing to pay stuff that they should (at least mine does)
> 
>That's why we need some changes made, Mr. Clinton...
>
>--Bart

One of the reasons that health care has gotten so expensive is that
we now expect to be reimbursed for every little visit to the doctor.
We want low deductables.  

So once we have such a plan (with all the concomittent paperwork,
both for the insurer and the insured), we feel that we have to get
our money's worth -- we go to the doctor when we might not, were 
the bill ours to pay alone.  And the doctor has less incentive to 
keep her rates down; after all, the patient has insurance, no?

Perhaps we could take all the little scrapes and colds to nurse
practitioners instead of MDs.  Perhaps we could have insurance 
policies with high deductables, maybe $500/incident like on an
auto policy.  Perhaps we could eliminate the AMA's monopoly on
licensed health care provision.  

Were those the kind of changes you had in mind, Bart?  Somehow
I don't thik they are the kinds of changes that Mr. Clinton has
in mind.


thomas rush			compaq computer corporation	
thomasr@cpqhou.compaq.com	their employee, not their opinions.
I believe all human interactions should be based on mutual consent.
Xref: sparky misc.consumers:19068 misc.invest:13728
From: colburn@Oswego.EDU (Bret Colburn)
Newsgroups: misc.consumers,misc.invest
Subject: Re: FORD visa vs. DISCOVER
Date: 13 Nov 92 19:05:44 GMT
Reply-To: colburn@oswego.Oswego.EDU (Bret Colburn)
Organization: Instructional Computing Center, SUNY at Oswego, Oswego, NY

Can someone post (or mail me) the details or phone number for the FORD visa?

					Thanks,

+-----------------------------------------------------------------+
|  Bret Colburn                                                   |
|  CAE Link - Link Flight Simulation Division                     |
|                                                                 |
|  u6k75@lfkw2.bgm.link.com     or     colburn@oswego.oswego.edu  |
+-----------------------------------------------------------------+