HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: fadden@uts.amdahl.com (Andy McFadden)
Newsgroups: rec.games.netrek
Subject: Re: NBR proposal: "Pleiades"; not "Pliedes"
Date: 21 Jan 93 22:35:38 GMT
Organization: Amdahl Corporation, Sunnyvale CA

In article <63571@mimsy.umd.edu> leonard@mimsy.umd.edu (Leonard Dickens) writes:
>"Pleiades"; not "Pliedes"
>  type: server
>  description: change "Pliedes" to the correct spelling "Pleiades"
>  proposed-by: rws3n@astsun8.astro.Virginia.EDU
>
>I am really hoping this one can be made a consensus proposal.  Speak
>now (against the change, with substantial argument) or forever hold
>your peace.

Dare I to spout the usual:

    NETREK IS NOT REALITY

If we want a star called "Pliedes", we'll bloody well have a star called
Pliedes.  Woe be to him/her/it who must now type "ple++" instead of the
far easier "pli++" (note all with right hand).

That's the negative viewpoint.  Personally I don't care, so go ahead and
change it. :-)  Just don't be confused if I still type "pli".

>-Leonard

-- 
fadden@uts.amdahl.com (Andy McFadden)
[ Above opinions are mine, Amdahl has nothing to do with them, etc, etc. ]
From: exodus@IASTATE.EDU
Newsgroups: rec.games.netrek
Subject: Re: From the CounCILboY: Your news reps are... [drum roll]
Date: 28 Jan 93 08:34:14 GMT
Reply-To: exodus@IASTATE.EDU
Organization: Iowa State University




  Dammit, something better be done about that farce of an
election! That rinky-f*cking-dink joke of an election really
irked me off, as I posted previously. You just can't suddenly
post "these are the cantidates, you have one week to vote for
one", even though a quarter of them are NOT cantidates! What
kind of lame sh*t is this? Are you people at INL too goddamn
lazy to even check back with the cantidates before starting
the damn voting? Ooooo, I'm mad. You better do that election
over. You don't post an incorrect list of cantidates, give
people a week to choose one, and then call it final. You
are really dooshing the repuation of INL! Grrrrrrrr. Don't
you think it was a little f*cking obvious something was
wrong when not a single CMU'er got elected to the council?
Do it over, and do it right dammit. Sorry to have to b*tch
like this, but I can't believe you people are passing that
crap off on us and expecting us to swallow it.



					S Charles Sprock
					    (Exodus)
From: mummert+@AUK.WARP.CS.CMU.EDU (Todd Mummert)
Newsgroups: rec.games.netrek
Subject: Re: Scattered Pops in INL- I vote NO!
Date: 25 Jan 93 06:48:08 GMT
Article-I.D.: AUK.MUMMERT+.93Jan25014808
	<C18vDJ.FI6.1@cs.cmu.edu> <C195rE.J92@usenet.ucs.indiana.edu>
	<C1E4H6.5rE.1@cs.cmu.edu>
Reply-To: mummert+@CS.CMU.EDU
Distribution: rec
Organization: Carnegie Mellon

Alec> This is not a fair comparison.  The 40 second pop thing is a bug in
Alec> the server code that some people have learned to exploit.

Mergatroid> it's no bug, it's how they wrote it.  not that i think that
Mergatroid> matters: we should consider and test each change carefully, and
Mergatroid> only adopt those we think make the game more fun.

ok, besides that first statement being outright ludicrous, I can see the point
in the remaining statements above.

Mergatroid> i think this change makes the game less interesting, and have
Mergatroid> posted evidence to back this up.  where's yours?

No, you did not post any "evidence"... whatever that is in this context.  You
opined that random pops would make you less useful since you'd have to pay
attention instead of knowing that there were 40 second gaps in which you
didn't have to worry about planets popping.  Yes, the 40 second pop makes
scout bombing easier, scout taking easier, and allows you to pay attention
a little less.  I hardly call this incontrovertible evidence.  

Mergatroid> finally, you suggest the adoption of the "mathematically clean"
Mergatroid> poisson distribution.  if you're interested in cleanliness,
Mergatroid> just flip a fucking coin.

you're ranting.

BP
...I've never coded something that wasn't how I wrote it
...and I promise I never will
Newsgroups: rec.games.netrek
From: genie@netcom.com (gene choi)
Subject: Re: Halftime
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services (408 241-9760 guest)
Date: Wed, 27 Jan 1993 06:11:13 GMT

In article <1k54u0$2lr@agate.berkeley.edu> tom@soda.berkeley.edu (Tom Holub) writes:
>In article <1k49a5INN35s@hadrosaur.cis.ohio-state.edu> mdm@cis.ohio-state.edu (Michael Moore) writes:
>)
>)	I could use a break about half-time.  I think 2 hours of intense
>)concentration is mentally gruelling.  It isn't that I couldn't do it,
>)but the game would be more enjoyable overall.
>
>The attrition of Berkeley INL players is really remarkable.  The
>Masters, the Ogglies, and now the Golden Bears have all lost 3 or
>4 players after the season.  Ginger Lynn, who's been playing netrek
>for years, told me the other day that, "It's just no fun anymore."
^^^^^^  
err.  1 1/2 years.  Not that long netrek time.  But a lot of
wasted real life time.

And I stand by the second statement.  Xtrek games aren't as addicting
as when I was first learning the game.  Probably due to the decreasing
number of Berkeley "regulars" when I first started playing...

Anyway, good luck in the INL everyone.  May the best team
win (provided the schedules are better).

Gene
aka Ginger etc.

P.S.  I'm not going to play for any team this semester, nor do I want
to.  But if anyone needs a sub for a particular game once in a while,
let me know.  I might play one or two this semester...
Newsgroups: rec.games.netrek
From: rhodesia@wixer.cactus.org (Felix S. Gallo)
Subject: Re: Real Name(s)?
Followup-To: rec.games.netrek
Organization: Real/Time Communications
Date: Sun, 24 Jan 1993 17:27:26 GMT

danhua@garnet.berkeley.edu (Dan Hua) writes:

>Hey folks!  Is ZZNewguy now christopher simmons?
>Also  is sunscreamer felix gallo or felix ortony?  I wish
>I have two names to use too, one for scumming and the other
>for.... more ulterior motoves..
>
>Well so long!

Actually, I'm kinda surprised it's taken so long for this
to come up.

A while back, ZZnewguy and I were playing on bronco one day
and getting really pissed at each other.  Every time he'd
pick up, I'd waste him from the backfield in my scout.
Every time I went to bomb, he'd rip me off the planet and
dump the high heat into my ship.  It was really fucking
unbelievable.  We'd eat our way through crowds of oggers --
Red Shirt, SpaceAce!, Ged, and the like -- only to get
stuffed at the planet by the other guy.

Finally, after we had swung the LPS back six or seven times,
and after Red Shirt had been carted away from his terminal
sobbing and SpaceAce had been seen desperately trying to get
his mouse hand uncurled, it was just him and me, facing each
other across the border of the vast Federation/Romulan Abyss.
"You SWINE," I sent him, "look what you did to poor Red Shirt.
You'll PAY."  "Oh YEAH?" came back his message, "How much do
you want to BET that I'll genocide you FIRST?"

So the brutal contest began.  We dogfought for hours, trying
to get that first kill.  The skies darkened and the planets
paled.  At last, with 99% damage, I expended the last drop
of fuel in my trusty scout to obliterate his, and with that
edge, went on to genocide him in six days.

After the brutal contest, of course, I had him change his
name to Christopher Simmons, get his nose pierced, and tattoo
"sunscreamer is the best yes sir" on his forehead.

Unfortunately, he wanted a rematch, and I gave it to him.
That's why I'm now Felix Gallo and I'm missing my right leg.

I don't think either of us are too eager to go for that
tiebreaking match.


Felix Gallo
rear ensign sunscreamer
and now you know...the REST of the story
-- 
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Felix Sebastian Gallo                              rhodesia@wixer.cactus.org
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Newsgroups: rec.games.netrek
From: jecoleb@eos.ncsu.edu (have clue, will travel)
Subject: This hoser cracked me up...
Reply-To: jecoleb@eos.ncsu.edu
Organization: The Ghost Of Christmas Past Society
Date: Sun, 24 Jan 1993 03:14:55 GMT


I know some of you are getting tired of T-scummers, but the login
id on this one was too ironically humorous to pass by, as well
as the LENGTHS to which this guy took it...

>Server: tardis.cl.msu.edu, port 2592 (Calvin mods)
>Last checked at 19:06:25 (0 minutes ago).

>There are 14 people playing here.

>  Type Rank       Name              Login
>F5 AS  Ensign     guest             Bozo@stein.u.washing
>R2 AS  Ensign     guest             Bozo@stein.u.washing
>R3 AS  Ensign     guest             Bozo@stein.u.washing
>R7 AS  Ensign     guest             Bozo@stein.u.washing
>R8 AS  Ensign     guest             Bozo@stein.u.washing
>R9 AS  Ensign     guest             Bozo@stein.u.washing
>Ra AS  Ensign     guest             Bozo@stein.u.washing
>Rb AS  Ensign     guest             Bozo@stein.u.washing
>Rc AS  Ensign     guest             Bozo@stein.u.washing
>Rd AS  Ensign     guest             Bozo@stein.u.washing
>Re AS  Ensign     guest             Bozo@stein.u.washing
>K0 AS  Lieutenan  varun             varun@stein.u.washing
>K4 AS  Ensign     guest             Bozo@stein.u.washing
>K6 AS  Ensign     guest             Bozo@stein.u.washing
                                     ^^^^

*grin*
             
		--Lieutenant Death & Taxes, NCSU
		--"Ensign I *luv* t-scum joining as F1..."
   
--
     jecoleb@eos.ncsu.edu      \\        pope@aza.csc.ncsu.edu    
 "I don't know where you took   --=--   To KLH: Love ya, Katya!
 me, but I didn't want to leave."   \\  have clue, will travel.
       ---------------------------------------------------
Newsgroups: rec.games.netrek
From: tom@soda.berkeley.edu (Tom Holub)
Newsgroups: rec.games.netrek
Subject: Re: MIRAMAR Clue Game Results
Date: 24 Jan 1993 00:58:56 GMT
Organization: U.C. Berkeley, CS Undergraduate Association
Distribution: usa
NNTP-Posting-Host: soda.berkeley.edu

In article <1jqs7dINNm16@cae.cad.gatech.edu> noah@cad.gatech.edu (Noah White) writes:
)
)  One player, turkey <local1@MORIARTY.THEORY.CS.CMU.EDU>, had some gripes
)about either the server or the players or something. Seeing as this was my
)first time running an `organized' game I am open for suggestions esp. from
)more experienced server gods who have run these types of games. 

Well, the big thing is to use the INL server.  It makes team selection
and the game start much easier, you don't have to worry about resetting
the galaxy or setting the planets to 30 armies, or making people Commanders 
so they can base.  It's really hard to play an organized game on a normal
server.

Also, don't worry too much about people being ghostbusted or whatever.
It's a clue game but it's just for fun; stopping the action every time
there's some kind of problem just isn't worth it.

Unfortunately, the level of play wasn't that high; I had about 14.5 DI
when I got ghostbusted after a little more than an hour.  Losing
turkey (Red Shirt) hurt, of course; he got frustrated with the 
ragged start.
 -Mojo
Newsgroups: rec.games.netrek
From: wildman@athena.mit.edu (Timothy Worsley)
Subject: Re: Indying AGRIs
Organization: Massachvsetts Institvte of Technology
Date: Wed, 20 Jan 1993 23:03:56 GMT

In "Joseph E. Beck" <jb8n+@andrew.cmu.edu> writes:

>Ok, I'll attempt to create an alternate thread for those tired of the
>DD vs SC thing.

>There have been a number of disagreements of neutralizing (making
>independent) an enemies AGRI.  The side for doing this says that
>dropping 4 armies will neutralize enemy army production for awhile and
>is worth it.  The side against this says that after you neutralize an
>AGRI, the enemy can drop 1 army.  Since AGRIs pop to 4 armies very
>quickly, the enemies 1 army has negated your 4.   

>The first time I got involved in this debate was during an INL game
>(being on an @large team, this was a bad time to have the discussion).

>Under what conditions is it ok to neutralize an enemy AGRI?  Sometimes
>(front line planets, or when ahead by a lot), Always, or Never?

[Note : As allways, I presume the game in question is a non-trivial INL game.]

That depends a lot on your team.

During last fall's season with the XGolems, I SC-took 6 AGRI during the
season.   They were positioned just about everywhere, from inner-core [Dra]
to Free Beer [Indi].

I think it all boils down to your confidence in your team, and the enemie's
army supply.

Indi-ing an AGRI when the enemy has easy army access & several carriers is,
IMO, pretty dumb.  In just about every other situation, it is probably a good
idea.  It all comes down to the scouts -- as a scout taker, I find INDI
planets, and INDI AGRIs insanely attractive.  In most of the INL games I can
easily recall which had INDI AGRI, my team [XG] hurled 3-5 scouts at it with
armies until one got through.

If you think your scout-takers can get it later, go for it.

[It's also based on your team's attitude.  XG went into every game with a
"We can win" attitude, so it was only natural to assume that it would be one
of *our* SC-droppers who would get the planet.  Most times, we were correct.]

[It's also a great distraction.  XG indied Eri [AGRI], and in the ensuing
BloodBath managed to take Hyd [ARGI]]

--Warsong

Newsgroups: rec.games.netrek
From: osyjm@cs.montana.edu (Jaye Mathisen)
Subject: Re: From the CounCILboY:  Your news reps are... [drum roll]
Organization: CS
Date: Tue, 26 Jan 1993 18:26:10 GMT

In article <1993Jan26.012013@IASTATE.EDU> exodus@IASTATE.EDU writes:
>In article <1993Jan25.203312.1811@coe.montana.edu>, osyjm@cs.montana.edu (Jaye
>Mathisen) writes:
>> 
>
>  This is totally a joke. I think a new vote should be called. You
>people posted a list of cantidates for us to vote for, even though
>some of them didn't want to be elected. Those of us who voted for
>them didn't get a chance to vote for somebody else. I didn't keep
>the email address to recast my vote, and nobody responded to my
>RGN request for it, so my vote was lost. Many others may not have
>even realized that their votes were lost because they might not
>read RGN every day. INL should have mailed us back saying that
>person had dropped out. Looks at the pathetic number of votes! Please
>call a 2nd election! Nothing against the cantidates who ended up on
>top, but clearly this was all very poorly managed. The cantidates
>who fill these positions are, in fact, very important. Please see
>to this at once. Thank-you.

a)  I'm not your mother, you guys are all adults.  You could've mailed me
and asked me what it was.  The fact that nobody responded on RGN is not
a factor.

b)  Like I posted originally, I thought that the nominators had asked the
nominees if it was OK.  The people that dropped out posted to RGN that
they were not interested, and it was more than a day before the end of
voting.  Next time, the INLC will check with the nominees in advance.

c)  There were 6 total votes for declinees.  2 of those people changed
their vote, all by themselves, I didn't ask them, nor remind them.  (Hell,
one of them was a council member who didn't change his vote.  He shall
remain nameless.)

d)  As to the pathetic # of votes... Who cares.  Obviously not enough
people thought it was important enough.  Hell,  i thought CMU would turn
in 50 on their own in support of Mergatroid, but that  didn't happen.
Even the CMU crowd was split up. (nothing against CMU here, I was just
surprised). 

e)  Hell, you're surprised about votes?  Not even all the council members
voted, although to their credit, some of them had what were certainly 
acceptable reasons.

Anyway, we'll get cracking here.  A follow-up posting about current council
stuff will follow soon.
-- 
 Jaye Mathisen, COE Systems Manager                (406) 994-4780
 410 Roberts Hall,Dept. of Computer Science
 Montana State University,Bozeman MT 59717	osyjm@cs.montana.edu
From: paulsen@eniac.seas.upenn.edu (Brian Paulsen)
Newsgroups: rec.games.netrek
Subject: Re: DD's need improvement!
Date: 25 Jan 93 12:15:02 GMT
Organization: University of Pennsylvania

In article <1jthnnINN6lu@aludra.usc.edu> jimmyhua@aludra.usc.edu (Jimmy Huang) writes:
>paulsen@eniac.seas.upenn.edu (Brian Paulsen) writes:

>>Bigdog had this for a while, I think.  The fact is that people don't get
>>hit by DD torps.  A good CA should get hit by 1 torp at most from any
>>CA - DD battle.  I think what would even up a DD would be 90 point phasers
>>rather than 85 point phasers.

>huh? I eat DD torps like hell all the time.  They run, I chase. I eat torps. 
>They get phasored to death. I have tons of damage, and limp away...

Try chasing him at a *max* of warp 7, and slowing down to warp 4 when you
think he'll fire torps.  Note: you have to be a fairly decent scum to know
when someone should fire torps.  Use tractors before you fire to pull him
in for more damage and release him after the phaser fired.

I was against Bav (probably one of the best DD players) this weekend on bronco
and I think I pretty well proved to him that in a fair dogfight, a CA will
never lose to a DD.  The problem is that fair dogfights have little to do
with netrek.  Yes, it does help from time to time, but it matters little.
If it did, everybody would fly BB's.  The DD's strength comes from cloaking,
speed, and the ability to carry 5 armies.  Trying to make its firepower
match up to a CA's would be like arguing that a CA should be as strong as
a BB.

Brian
From: srt@aero.org (Scott Turner)
Newsgroups: rec.games.netrek
Subject: Abusive Misuse of Tedd Hadley's Server
Keywords: request
Date: 21 Jan 93 18:52:35 GMT
Organization: The Aerospace Corporation, El Segundo, CA
NNTP-Posting-Host: sun-dimas.aero.org

hadley@thoth.ics.uci.edu (Tedd Hadley) writes:
>   My experiments with robot oggers and a robot base...

Tedd Hadley has provided us with the base ogg server, an invaluable
and clever tool.  To our own eternal shame, I feel that the Netrek
community hasn't properly recognized nor appreciated Tedd's effort in
the proper manner, i.e., by abusing it in the most unnatural way
possible.

I therefore suggest a "clue game" on Tedd's base ogg server
(vlsi.ics.uci.edu), say 1/21 and 1/22 at 4:00 PST.  Imagine if you
will a universe where every planet is Agri, Fuel and Repair, every
player can base, and (if Tedd whips some quick mods into the code) where
bases can take planets and bases can dock on bases.

To me, it's the only *real* Netrek.

					-- Scott T.
From: tom@soda.berkeley.edu (Tom Holub)
Newsgroups: rec.games.netrek
Subject: Re: Escorting Tips Wanted
Date: 23 Jan 1993 04:26:00 GMT
Organization: U.C. Berkeley, CS Undergraduate Association
NNTP-Posting-Host: soda.berkeley.edu

In article <1993Jan23.002520.15165@noose.ecn.purdue.edu> mswihart@rainbow.ecn.purdue.edu (Michael R Swihart) writes:
)Lately, I have been trying to practice escorting and generally
)being useful to planet-takers. One thing I have noticed is that
)people will frequently send messages about carrying armies, but 
)seldom do they indicate where they are going. 

Because a good planet taker doesn't know.  Unless it's a totally
obvious choice (which, as far as I'm concerned, means it's the
last planet), I don't make up my mind about which planet I'm 
going to until I'm there.  Generally I'll aim for a planet I'm not
terribly interested in; if they don't defend it, I'll take it,
if they do defend it, I'll go somewhere more desirable.  In any
case, escorts, unless they really know my playing style, can be
more of a hindrance than a help unless there's only one
defender.  Go do something more useful (ogging comes to mind; there
are few escorts that clear worlds as well as an ogger does when he
goes for a carrier).

)P.S. I was also wondering about which ships more clued players
)use for escorting?

The bigger the better.
 -Mojo
Newsgroups: rec.games.netrek
From: ahabig@bigbang.astro.indiana.edu (Alec Habig)
Subject: Re: From the CounCILboY:  Your news reps are... [drum roll]
Organization: Indiana University Astrophysics, Bloomington, IN
Date: Tue, 26 Jan 1993 08:30:39 GMT

In article <1993Jan26.012013@IASTATE.EDU> exodus@IASTATE.EDU writes:
>  This is totally a joke. I think a new vote should be called. You
>people posted a list of cantidates for us to vote for, even though
>some of them didn't want to be elected. Those of us who voted for
>them didn't get a chance to vote for somebody else. I didn't keep
>the email address to recast my vote, and nobody responded to my
>RGN request for it, so my vote was lost. Many others may not have
>even realized that their votes were lost because they might not
>read RGN every day. INL should have mailed us back saying that
>person had dropped out. Looks at the pathetic number of votes! Please
>call a 2nd election! Nothing against the cantidates who ended up on
>top, but clearly this was all very poorly managed. The cantidates
>who fill these positions are, in fact, very important. Please see
>to this at once. Thank-you.

Exodus has a point about the election problems.  However, there is not time to
redo this.  If we want an INL season this semester, the council has to make
some quick decisions and start, or we'll be screwed for time.  The guys elected
are good choices and will be able to do this.  Remember, the rest of th council
was never elected at all, so this this is a good start.

	Alec
	(Entropy)
From: jmn@crown.berkeley.edu (J. Mark Noworolski)
Newsgroups: rec.games.netrek
Subject: Re: Scattered Pops in INL- I vote NO!
Date: 26 Jan 1993 19:20:42 GMT
Organization: University of California, Berkeley
NNTP-Posting-Host: crown.berkeley.edu

ahabig@bigbang.astro.indiana.edu (Alec Habig) writes:
>The INL code (which is what this thread started with) is at 40 sec now.  The
>real question is what to do with this.  It was originally suggested that since
>most servers used 10 sec. pops, that the INL server, which is supposed to
>reflect netrek in general, would better do so if it was also 10 sec.

I don't believe this is a true statement. The following servers run
40 sec pops right now (from memory):

bronco, discovery, guzzler, calvin, fife, bigmax, and several others I can't
be bothered to check.

In any case everybody is ranting about only one half of the debate....

WHAT about planets popping under you?!?!?!?

Seems to me that with continuous pops it is unpreventable (with a 40 sec
timer you can prevent it by timing your takes properly). Also, as I mentioned
earlier, a double take with scouts of an agri (or any planet for that
matter) would be fraught with uncertainty during the time between drops.

If yer gonna screw with the pop timing- you're gonna have to change the
way planets pop in my opinion (so that people don't get screwed with a
planet popping under them). Don't ask me how.

Passing Wind
From: markiel@callisto.pas.rochester.edu (Andrew Markiel)
Newsgroups: rec.games.netrek
Subject: Re: Scummers all over the place!!!!!!!!!!!!
Date: 28 Jan 93 01:22:26 GMT
Organization: U(r) AstroTheory Group

It occurs to me that an interesting way to handle the scumming problem,
while still allowing people to play from the same account/machine, is
to permit the connections, but don't count the extra connections from
the same machine toward t-mode. This way, you can have several people
playing from the same machine, but you need some outside people in
order to go into t-mode. Depending on the type of server and the
security desired, you could limit by client machine, userid, or even
by domain, to stop people with large clusters at hand.

Of course, this is a bad idea if a majority of players on the server
play from the same userid, machine, or domain. Obviously the server
god should adjust according to circumstances.

Just a suggestion.

-Grey Elf
markiel@callisto.pas.rochester.edu