HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: jewell@mace.cc.purdue.edu (Larry Jewell)
Newsgroups: rec.aviation,soc.veterans,soc.history
Subject: "Andrew" takes WWII planes (fwd)
Date: 26 Aug 92 22:34:13 GMT
Followup-To: rec.aviation
Distribution: usa
Organization: Purdue University


Reply-To: rjg@umnstat.stat.umn.edu

A lot of information is going to start coming out of Florida over the
next several weeks, and any information (such as this) which comes out
now will be modified as things are better known.

However, I've been informed by someone who is involved indirectly with
the Kermit Weeks Air Museum, that his collection of WWII and vintage
aircraft is considered a ``near total loss'' following Hurricane Andrew.

The Hurricane not only roared through Homestead, but also Tamiami.
Not all the aircraft were able to be moved into hangars, but the results
didn't matter.  His B-17 was found a mile and a half away with a DC-3
attached to it.  The B-23 ``is just gone.''

The hangar did not survive either.  The doors were blown out and the
structure collapsed on the aircraft inside.  Even smaller aircraft,
like the P-51D "Cripes A'Mighty" was ``70 to 80 percent destroyed.''
His newer restoration building was apparently also collapsed.  The
status of such rare and fragile birds as the Mosquito are unknown.
However, if it was still in Tamiami when the storm hit, I understand
we shouldn't hold out much hope for it being spared any serious
damage or worse.

What aircraft can be salvaged, which were actually destroyed, which
(if any) are safe, etc. will be played out in the days to come.  I know
for a fact that his P-51C rebuild project is relatively safe as the
fuselage and wings are in California.  Not much of the project was in
Florida.

Anyone who has built or restored any aircraft understands the amount of
love you must have for it before you can even begin.  Once you are
finished (you never are), the aircraft is as important as your first
born child.  It doesn't matter if you have one, or as many as Kermit
had.  Each one is your first child in some manner or fashion.

Hopefully many aircraft can be salvaged at least for restoration to static
display.  And beyond that, hopefully some survived in a fashion so as to
fly again.  I'm anxious to hear if anyone has a full story or inventory
as to what occurred, and survived, at Tamiami.

I've been told that Kermit is in ``good spirits,'' which bodes well.
However, many aircraft are gone for good, which is a loss to everyone.

--
Robert J. Granvin                                    Southern Minnesota Wing
rjg@umnstat.stat.umn.edu                               Confederate Air Force

-- 
#Larry W. Jewell (ex-USN)     WWII-L Listowner    jewell@mace.cc.purdue.edu # 
#"Sunday's horoscope is noteworthy because of its strange, sudden and wholly#
#unpredictable and inexplicable occurrences, affecting all phases of life." #
#--"Your Horoscope," L.A. Evening Herald Express, Saturday, Dec. 6, 1941.   #
Newsgroups: rec.aviation
From: bakc@giraffe.ru.ac.za (MR KR COMAN)
Subject: "Aero-car" from 1940's/1950's
Organization: Rhodes University, Grahamstown, South Africa
Date: Thu, 3 Sep 1992 06:29:15 GMT

Browsing thu an old kids aviation book from 1948 and saw a picture of a US 
"aerocar" -- concept involved a small 4-wheel car that had bolt on wings and 
tail assembly.   This jogged my memory regarding a TV series (black + white)
circa 1959 where the star had one of these to buzz around in -- Bill 
Cummings?????

Anyway, what is/was the state of play with aerocars?  They never seemed to 
find a market but surely someone still has one in service  or knows a bit 
of their background/history?

Cheers,
Keith Coman
From: prang@ssc-vax.boeing.com (Ron Wanttaja)
Newsgroups: rec.aviation
Subject: Re: What do you do during long boring flights?
Date: 1 Sep 92 16:59:01 GMT
Organization: Boeing Defense and Space Group, Seattle WA

hchong@netcom.com (Hoi Chong) writes:

>Usually, we listen to radio in the cars during long solo drive, but what do 
>you do for long solo flights (assuming FAA does not permit radio)? 

Generally, I put my feet up on the dash, open a bag of Cheez-Its (tm), and
catch the soaps on the Watchman :-).

Actually, my time during long cross-countries are spend as follows:

1.  Looking for forced-landing spots.  This is also called, "Sightseeing".
2.  Navigating.  Since navigation in the 'Baby is 100% pilotage (whaddya
think, should I by a Pixis?) I spend time comparing terrain features to the
map.
3.  Listening to the engine with various degrees of mistrust.
4.  Squirming on the 'Baby's hard aluminum seat.
5.  Singing.  Flying a single-seat open-cockpit airplane is a good place
for it... no one's there, and at 2,000 feet not many people can hear you.
With the engine noise, you can't hear yourself worth a darn, so the need to
sing well never enters into it.  LOUD is important.  GOOD is irrelevant.

WHAT is left to the memory/imagination of the pilot.  Certain songs, for
instance, seem fit certain planes better.  Richard Bach, for instance, says
"God Rest Ye Merry Gentlemen" goes well in a Sea Bee at cruise.  The Fly
Baby, oddly enough, likes a combination of Glenn Miller and Heavy Metal.
Miller's "Pennsylvania 6-5000" is a nice wing-rocker (although the chorus 
is changed from "Pennsylvania Six-Five-Thousand" to "Fly Baby N-Five
Hundred").  For metal, Bill Idol's "White Wedding" goes well with entering 
the pattern of an extremely busy uncontrolled field.

Of course, no matter what the original song, the lyrics are often changed
by the end of a Looonggg cross-country:

(To the tune of "Onward Christian Soldiers":)

Gee my ass is hurting, gee my butt is sore,
Gee my ass is hurting, gee my butt is sore,
Gee my... (repeat until landing) :-)

                                | "And Vivaldi's 'Gloria' goes well 
                               _|_/ at cruise!"
                 	      /(_)\                       
                      -------:==^==:-------      
                           [[|  o  |]]             
  -----------------__________\_____/__________-----------------
                          _  /     \  _
                         T T/_______\T T      Ron Wanttaja 
			 | |         | |      prang@ssc-bee 
			 """         """      prang@ssc-bee.boeing.com
Newsgroups: rec.aviation
From: doug@alliant.com (Doug Bloomberg)
Subject: Re: AM I CRAZY OR WAS THERE A 'SCREW UP' YESTERDAY
Keywords: Aurora, Secrets
Organization: Alliant Computer Systems Corp.
Distribution: na
Date: Thu, 3 Sep 1992 16:53:45 GMT

>In article <1992Sep3.014522.154@mnemosyne.cs.du.edu> Marshal 
>"Airborne" Perlman) writes:
>Don't ask me where I heard it..I can't remember..it was either
>on the RADIO or in a DREAM <this sounds dumb, but I can't remember!>.
>
>For some reason, the thought of a 747 <commercial> having a 'near miss'
>with a missle or 'high preformance top secret aircraft' <i.e. aurora?>
>comes to my  mind...don't know why!
>
Something on CBS or ABC yesterday. A MD-80 and 767 had a near miss over
Virginia. Seems the 767 was 800ft above the MD-80 flying on a head to
head course. The pilot of the 767 had a TCAS alert and dove the 767. Down
thru the flight path of the MD-80. The 767 lost over 3500' in the dive.
The closest each plane came to oneanother was .6 miles.   

Now all this was on the network news so in actuallity it probably was
a 747 and the Aurora.   But it could be the news reporting on the Santa
Paula incident...


I  don't trust what I read, hear, or see via this country's media.


Doug Bloomberg  (doug@alliant.com)
Littleton, CO

RV-6 Builder
From: prang@ssc-vax.boeing.com (Ron Wanttaja)
Newsgroups: rec.aviation
Subject: Re: Osprey Gear Failure (was Re: Glass Goose)
Date: 2 Sep 92 17:32:30 GMT
Organization: Boeing Defense and Space Group, Seattle WA

In article <1992Sep1.004038.25115@news.arc.nasa.gov>, doshay@ursa.arc.nasa.gov (David Doshay) writes:
> 
> The SeaHawker has severe problems with separation of the flow around the
> fuselage. The Osprey dose not have that problem, although I talked with
> one builder that was not happy with the gear (it colapsed, but no serious
> dammage).

Supposedly, the Sea Hawker's vortex generators solve the flow separation 
problem.  The interesting thing is that the prototype never had a speck of
trouble...

As to the Osprey gear failures, my friend had the same thing happen.  Turns
out the plans called for a torque tube about three wall sizes too small.
My buddy called the designer after his gear failed, and the guy said, "Yeah
we've known about that for years."  Just hadn't gotten the word out....

Turns out, the torque tube is the FIRST thing installed in the cockpit...
to replace it, you've gotta remove a whole bunch of stuff.

My friend's gear failure occurence was interesting.  He had been planning
on making the first flight from the water.  So for his first taxi test, he
went to the seaplane ramp.  The ramp was slippery, and he went down far
faster than he wanted to.

So fast, in fact, that the tailwheel skid struck the ramp and punched up
through the bottom of the hull.  He was taxiing around in Lake Washington
and noticed water on the floor.  He poured on the power and headed for the
ramp.  As he neared it, he cut power and jerked the gear down.  The gear
collapsed when the plane hit the ramp....


                                          Ron Wanttaja
					  prang@ssc-bee
					  ...rutgers!uw-beaver!ssc-bee!prang
                                          prang@ssc-bee.boeing.com
From: bruceh@cray.com (Bruce T. Hill)
Newsgroups: rec.aviation
Subject: Re: Warm fuzzy
Date: 25 Aug 92 22:47:30 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: Cray Research Superservers Inc., San Diego CA, USA

In article <5898@transfer.stratus.com> spenny@sw.stratus.com (Steve Pennypacker) writes:
>Actually, the key is to buy an airplane before you get married and before
>you buy a house (and, I suppose, before you have kids, although I can't 
>speak for that one).  Or to find a rich spouse.

I was an airplane owner prior to marriage and kids.  I am still married,
two kids, no more airplane.  Just a matter of priorities and economics.
With kids you lose that valuable commodity -- time.  With the wife no longer
working, so she can take care of the kids, no more disposable income.
I have every intention of returning to the pilot's seat in a few years.
Right now it just is not in the cards.  Of course if I win the lottery
this could change....

>I made the mistake of not having an airplane when I got married and it's 
>taken me almost 5 years to get an OK for a plane.

I just hope your spouse can except a certain level of airplane related 
expenditures.  Its the money thing that will shock your spouse, and not
the "little airplanes are dangerous" concerns.  Just make sure you have 
lots of money to burn!  I learned the hard way that maintenance costs 
will make the purchase price of your plane look insignificant.

-- 
Bruce T. Hill @ Cray Research Superservers, Inc., San Diego, CA, USA
Email: bruceh@cray.com  Phone: (619) 625-3746  FAX: (619) 625-0641
Humorous quotation:  Nobody looks good wearing _brown_lipstick_. --Frank Zappa
From: gaynier@elec.uq.oz.au (Ron Gaynier)
Newsgroups: rec.aviation
Subject: Re: High or low tow normal?
Date: 25 Aug 92 23:44:18 GMT
Organization: Prentice Centre, University of Queensland

In <25AUG199210445493@vxcrna.cern.ch> cohler@vxcrna.cern.ch (Mike Cohler) writes:

"|"In article <gaynier.714627586@s1.elec.uq.oz.au>, gaynier@elec.uq.oz.au (Ron Gaynier) writes...
"|">In <1992Aug24.023142.29796@nodecg.ncc.telecomwa.oz.au> cstone@nodecg.ncc.telecomwa.oz.au (Charlie Stone 4915162) writes:
"|"> 
"|">"|"In article <1992Aug22.134447.8450@uniwa.uwa.edu.au> kaye@uniwa.uwa.edu.au (Kaye Stott) writes:
"|">"|">
"|">"|">dinsdale@berlioz.nsc.com (Steve McRobert) writes:
"|">"|">>
"|">"|">>BTW, in camden australia the take off straight into low tow.  I can't
"|">"|">>remember whether we climbed to normal high tow position before releasing
"|">"|">>can anyone in aus enlighten me?

"|"Has anyone though about what might happen if you release from tow in the
"|"low tow position, if the aircraft has a bellyhook only ?  The possibilities
"|"for cable snagging are horrendous !  (stuff deleted)

Yes, and for that reason nose hooks are the norm except in the case of glider designs
which will not accomediate a nose hook. I believe a nose hook is required on all new
gliders to obtain a C of A. An aerotow with a bellyhook would be done from the high
tow position.


Ron Gaynier
From: braven@rx.xerox.com (Brian Raven)
Newsgroups: rec.aviation
Subject: Re: Hawker Siddeley Vulcan
Date: 28 Aug 92 09:09:07 GMT
Reply-To: braven@rx.xerox.com
Organization: Rank Xerox Ltd.

For anyone who may be interested in seeing a Vulcan, I have just seen an ad in a local newspaper for the Dreamflight Air Show at Cranfield Airport (Bedfordshire, U.K.) on the 20th September. The ad includes the following:

	FAREWELL VULCAN
	last public appearance

There is also a telephone number (which I haven't tried), which should translate to  +44 959 540959.


---
Brian Raven,
MC&SE, Rank Xerox Ltd., Welwyn Garden City, Herts., U.K. (+44 707 383576)
email (ignore what it says in the header): bfr.wgc1@rx.xerox.com
----------------------
Rebel Without a Clue
Newsgroups: rec.aviation
From: jhenderson@pomona.claremont.edu
Subject: Remote controlled lights
Organization: Pomona College
Date: 26 Aug 92 22:42:57 PDT

With respect to the discussion about radio controlled lighting systems for
runways, what about using a (gasp!) homemade setup on some of the ham radio
bands that allow remote control, such as 50, 220 or 440 Mhz, to mention just
a few? Of course that only applies to us hams (though I noticed quite a few
on this group).

And what about garage door opener setups? I have no idea what the range on
these devices is, or what the FCC would say about it, I'm just bringing it
up as an idea.

And what about those clap-on clap-off devices for which they have ads on
TV??????? (I didn't think so...)

______________________________________________________________________________
Javier Henderson, N6VBG         | Beat the 55mph limit (legally):
jhenderson@pomona.claremont.edu | Learn to fly!
From: scott@hplvec.LVLD.HP.COM (Scott Turner)
Date: Tue, 25 Aug 1992 17:22:53 GMT
Subject: Re: DME Answers
Organization: Hewlett-Packard Co., Loveland, CO
Newsgroups: rec.aviation

In rec.aviation, jle@hpfcso.FC.HP.COM (Jerwrites:

 
>changed back to "GLL".  Then, for the past week, Denver Center has been
>giving vectors toward GLL vor.  When the aircraft still does not report
>"proceeding direct Gill", by 30 DME, Center recites the new frequency
>for the vor.  It makes me wonder where the airline pilots got their
>briefing, since it has been in the NOTAMS and the FSS briefings for
>quite a while.

Never underestimate the power of habit.  I've known about the frequency
change for quite some time.  Yet last weekend, when I hit the "Nav, set"
part of the checklist, I tuned the #1 Nav *away* from 114.2 and back to
112.8.  My home airport, GXY, is a couple of miles away from GLL and
I'm so used to making sure that 112.8 is tuned that my internal
autopilot overroad my recently acquired knowledge.  I corrected myself,
but you've gotta admit, it's certainly easy to get caught up by long
established procedures.


Scott Turner  scott@hpisla.LVLD.HP.COM
HP VXI Systems Division
Turbo Arrow N2134N  "Baby"

Newsgroups: rec.aviation
From: sloubtin@dsg.cs.tcd.ie (Sylvain Louboutin)
Subject: Re: Flying saves money (sic)
Organization: DSG, Dept. of Computer Science, Trinity College Dublin
Date: Fri, 28 Aug 1992 11:41:45 GMT


In <NILES.92Aug27120336@pizzicato.parc.xerox.com> niles@parc.xerox.com (Les Niles) writes:

[...cost of flying versus cost of driving...]

there is just one thing which nobody has taken into account yet:
driving would be much more expensive if it were not subsidized (i.e. you
take for granted that road construction and maintenance is paid by
the tax payer).  How much would it cost to drive if you were paying for
the whole cost involved?

-- 
//Sylvain R.Y. Louboutin, fax: (+353-1)772204, e-mail: Louboutin@dsg.cs.tcd.ie
//Distributed System Group, O'Reilly Institute, room F.35, (+353-1)7021539 ...
//Department of Computer Science, Trinity College, Dublin 2, -Ireland-  ASK-18
From: stadler@Apple.COM (Andy Stadler)
Newsgroups: rec.aviation
Subject: ICOM making Mil hardware????
Date: 30 Aug 92 03:00:03 GMT
Organization: Apple Computer Inc., Cupertino, CA

From Aviation Week & Space Technology, June 1, 1992.  Page 51.
(without permission)

UKRANIAN MIG-29's TOUR CANADA, U.S. AFTER RECEIVING NAVAIDS

MiG-29's are back in North America, but this time it is a pair of Ukranian
air force fighters ... that are participating in a series of 20 air shows as
well as demonstration flights.
...
The MiG's are equipped only with automatic direction finders and lack any
precision approach equipment that would work in North America or even a
transponder.  Canadian military officials asked Northwest Industries, Ltd.
officials if they could help solve that problem.  So after the show, a two-
seat MiG flew to Edmonton International Airport near [Canadian Forces Base
Edmonton] to visit Nortwest's C-130 overhaul facility for a navigational
aid installation.
...
The Northwest mechanics installed a wire antenna on the inside of the rear-
seat canopy to feed a hand-held ICOM-A20 VHF transceiver that picks up VOR
signals and displays them on a liquid crystal display.  [Northwest VP Brian]
McKenzie said the MiG's automatic direction finder frequencies can only be
set on the ground, not in-flight.

An Ameri-King AK350 encoder was installed on the glareshield in the rear
cockpit.  A transponder antenna was placed on the belly of the aircraft as
well.

The avionics will be used primarily as a backup because during most
repositioning flights the MiG-29s will be escorted by Canadian Air Force
CF-18s or U.S. Air Force fighters.  At the end of the tour the Ukranians
will return the avionics to Northwest Industries.

[rest of article deleted]


This should certainly lay to rest the "which handheld should I buy" FAQ...

--Andy    stadler@apple.com


Newsgroups: rec.aviation
From: jkf@Franz.COM (Sean Foderaro)
Subject: Re: how to do a mag check?
Organization: Franz Inc., Berkeley, CA
Date: Sat, 29 Aug 1992 16:22:26 GMT


>>  I don't really know how serious one meg failure is in the air,
>>  and I don't really care to find out with my life!  Anybody knows? 

 I've experienced this.  In my case the engine rpm dropped a 
bit (constant pitch prop), the tach needle oscillated about +-100rpm, 
and the engine just felt rougher (I'd had a lot of hours in this plane
so I could tell).   It's kind of like you're getting carb ice 
except that pulling the carb heat has no effect.   


-sean
From: mikec@tabasco.lcs.mit.edu (Mike Ciholas)
Newsgroups: rec.aviation
Subject: Re: There I was - mag check
Date: 31 Aug 92 15:18:33 GMT
Article-I.D.: mintaka.1992Aug31.151833.22885
Organization: MIT Laboratory for Computer Science

In article <1992Aug31.012736.22545@telebit.com> brent@telebit.com
	(Brent Chapman) writes:
>ron@pilot.njin.net (Ron Natalie) writes:
>>    Unknowingly retracted flaps on short final while trying to land plane.
>
>That particular type of switch (not found only on Cessna aircraft,
>by the way) has been the cause of several accidents, for exactly the
>behavior you describe.  It's spring-loaded from the "down" to the "off"
>position, and it will stay in the "up" position if you put it there.
[edited]
>I much prefer the "lever" style of electric flap controls, common in
>late-model Cessna singles.  The lever has about 4 inches of travel,
>with detents at 1/4 travel and 1/2 travel.  You move it to the first
>stop, you've got 10 degrees of flaps.  To the second, you've got 20.
>To the bottom, you've got all 40 (or all 30, if you have a very late
>model or STC'd aircraft).
>-Brent

... and I much prefer the early Cessna style.  You know, the one with
a large lever about 2 feet long with a latching button at the top of
the handle?  It has nice solid detents at 20, 30, and 40 degrees.
Flap transition time is pretty nice too :-).  The indicator is built
in also!  Should I ever have flap problems, I can very quickly bring
them in or out.

I am sure there are people who like their electric flaps very much.
The best feature is the extra floor space that is freed when the flap
handle is removed.

Someday I'll look at the wiring diagram for the electric flap systems
and see if the wiring can turn on the flap motor if it chafes and
makes contact with the airframe (grounding the wire).  I woud hope the
switch supplies the plus voltage instead (thus a short to ground would
cause flap innop and breaker pull, but not flap deployment).  It is
quite common to have wires ground out on all the sharp edges in an
airframe.

IMHO, I like the mechanical flaps very much.  I wish Cessna had left
them alone.  It wasn't broke.

I fly a Cessna 170B, 1954.

Mike Ciholas
mikec@lcs.mit.edu
Newsgroups: rec.aviation
From: ericth@i88.isc.com (Eric Thiele)
Subject: There I was - mag check
Organization: INTERACTIVE Systems Corporation, Naperville, IL
Date: Wed, 26 Aug 1992 18:58:09 GMT

Another anonymous tale - But I've also committed this one myself! - ET
----------------
One night a friend and I went out for a sightseeing trip mainly so I could
maintain my night currency.  At the time I was flying a C-172 that belonged
to a friend.  Part of the standard run-up procedure is to verify that both
mags are working:  Both - Left - Both - Right - Both.  After "finishing"
the pre-takeoff list I rolled out onto the runway and took off (uncontrolled
field).  I noticed the engine was only producing about 2400 rpm but it
didn't seem too important, Right?  Liftoff distance was about normal but
I could not seem to get more than 200 fpm of climb.  The engine sounded O.K.
so I finished climbing to pattern altitude but I stayed in the pattern.
After getting to downwind I ran down the list of possible problems (that I
could think of at the time):
	- High density altitude?  not really, about 2200' according to the
				  AWOS.
	- Carb ice?  carb heat works normally but doesn't fix the problem.
	- Weight?  full fuel but only two people
After landing I taxied back to the run-up area and went through the
pre-takeoff list again.   Let's see now, mags both... oops..  Seems that
I had forgotton to go back to both after checking the right mag.  I have
yet to figure out why I didn't think to check the mag switch in the air.
Ever since, I've always checked the mag switch as I'm advancing the throttle.