HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: aws@iti.org (Allen W. Sherzer)
Subject: Re: The Crimes of Nicaragua (V)
Organization: Evil Geniuses for a Better Tomorrow
Date: Mon, 14 Sep 1992 15:09:05 GMT

In article <1992Sep12.084316.12270@mont.cs.missouri.edu> harelb@math.cornell.edu (misc.activism.progressive co-moderator) writes:
>The Crimes of Nicaragua (V)...

You would think a posting about the crimes of the Sandinsitas would
mention all those political prisoners. But then Harel is pretending
they don't exist.

>*Over 150,000 nicaraguans displaced or relocated.

Interesting harel should bring this one up. Most of those where moved
where Contra supporters forcibly moved to make it harder for the
Contras to get local help.

Strangely enough (or not so strangely when you think about it) the
Salvadoran govenrment did the exact same thing for the exact same
reason. Dispite Harel's violent objection to the Salvadoran program
of forced relocation he seems to see no problem when his friends
do the exact same thing.

>* Defense budget increased from 7 percent of GDP in 1980-1981 to 40
>percent in 1985.

This was also in the cards. In 1980 (more than a year before there where
any Contras) the Sandinsitas had five times as many tanks as all their
neighbors combined.

When you intend to set up a dictatorship you got to have guns.

   Allen

-- 
+---------------------------------------------------------------------------+
| Allen W. Sherzer | "If they can put a man on the Moon, why can't they     |
|  aws@iti.org     |  put a man on the Moon?"                               |
+----------------------222 DAYS TO FIRST FLIGHT OF DCX----------------------+
Xref: sparky alt.activism.d:3105 alt.rush-limbaugh:4934 talk.abortion:36660
From: mcgredo@prism.CS.ORST.EDU (Don McGregor)
Newsgroups: alt.activism.d,alt.rush-limbaugh,talk.abortion
Subject: Re: Tom and Jerry? (was Snapple "Anti-Choice?")
Keywords: flubbydubbysnertwerts
Date: 15 Sep 92 22:09:01 GMT
Organization: Oregon State University, Computer Science Dept.

In article <1992Sep15.191208.18251@ncsu.edu> sgparker@eos.ncsu.edu (SCOTT GRAHAM PARKERSON) writes:
>
>
>} Remember boycott Tom and Jerry ice cream.
>
>Ekscuze me, but why should _I_ boycott Tom and Jerry ice cream (or are you
>talking about BEN and Jerry's ice cream--I've never heard of T&J's)?  What the 
>hell did the product do that was so bad that _I_ should boycott?  Please
>explain.  That's all I ask for.
>
John knew it was actually called that other name, but he didn't want
to mention it and give them free advertising.

B & J use the proceeds of their product--a substance known to be
a contributing factor to one of the major killers in America, 
heart disease--to support a variety of left-wing causes.

_One carton_ of their product could, if injected directly into the brain,
kill tens of thousands of people.  Menthane from livestock in Vermont
contributes to global warming, perhaps killing us all some day.
One recent study found that many pastures were filled with cow
pies.  Women and children picnic and sunbathe in these pastures!

Don McGregor             | "I..I blame society.  Society made me  
mcgredo@prism.cs.orst.edu|  what I am."
-- 
Don McGregor             | "I..I blame society.  Society made me  
mcgredo@prism.cs.orst.edu|  what I am."
Newsgroups: alt.activism.d
From: brian@coombs.anu.edu.au (Brian)
Subject: Re: The Crimes of Nicaragua (V)
Organization: Computer Services Centre, Australian National University
Date: 16 Sep 92 00:41:53 GMT

aws@iti.org (Allen W. Sherzer) writes:

>The fact remains that the words and actions of the Sandinsitas
>show that they had no interest in democracy. 

	Rather like how the US government has no interest in anything except the
form, not the real substance of "democracy" - particularly if that form means 
that the US will no longer be able to expploit that nation.


--
Brian Ross____________________________________________________________________
	"If this is the revolution, why are the drinks so fucking expensive?"
		- unsigned Graphitto, Paris, 1968
______________________________________________________________________________
Newsgroups: alt.activism.d
From: adamsr@netcom.com (Rick Adams)
Subject: Re: Chicago Demonstration 9/19/92
Date: Thu, 10 Sep 92 18:22:43 GMT
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services (408 241-9760 guest)

Thus spake susan_soric@upubs.uchicago.edu (Susan Soric): 

>There will be a massive demonstration
>in downtown Chicago at 2 p.m. Saturday,
>September 19 at Daley Plaza, sponsored
>by a coalition of Muslims, Christians, and
>peace and justice groups united in their
>call to end the arms embargo against
>Bosnia-Herzegovina and Croatia.
>
>The demonstration will call for
>the American public to protest U.S. Pres.
>Bush's policy of inaction in the Balkans.
>
	Do I understand this correctly?

	You believe that the cause of peace demands the shipment of arms?

	You also believe that the United States must prove it's dedication
to peace through military action?

	AKQJ1098765432
	AKQJ1098765432
        AKQJ1098765432
        AKQJ1098765432
        JokerJoker

	I just thought I would send you a new deck - the one you are
currently playing with OBVIOUSLY isn't full.

>Disclaimer: The abovementioned announcement
>is provided by the sender alone, and has no
>connection whatsoever with the University of
>Chicago.
>
	Nor does it have any connect with any peace group that I can
imagine. Would you care to name the "peace and justice" groups involved in
this "coalition?"

-- 
    rick.adams on GEnie   /|\  Reliable and affordable public access to 
     adamsr@netcom.com  /  |  \  telecommunications services is the 
    adamsr@irie.ais.org \ /|\ /  first step toward a global community.
   adamsr@norwich.bitnet  \|/  Send Email for files on GEnie and Netcom.

Xref: sparky alt.activism.d:3083 alt.rush-limbaugh:4844 talk.abortion:36525
From: jym@mica.berkeley.edu (Jym Dyer)
Newsgroups: alt.activism.d,alt.rush-limbaugh,talk.abortion
Subject: "Snapple" Anti-Choice?
Date: 15 Sep 92 00:13:40
Organization: The Naughty Peahen Party Line
NNTP-Posting-Host: remarque.berkeley.edu

=o= I heard that "Snapple" brand drinks -- the favorite of
everyone's favorite idiot radio show host -- donates part of
their profits to anti-choice groups.  Can anyone confirm or
deny this rumor?
    <_Jym_>
Xref: sparky alt.activism.d:3108 alt.rush-limbaugh:4944 talk.abortion:36681
From: eyc@acpub.duke.edu (EMIL CHUCK)
Newsgroups: alt.activism.d,alt.rush-limbaugh,talk.abortion
Subject: Re: "Snapple" Anti-Choice?
Date: 15 Sep 92 23:53:48 GMT
Followup-To: alt.activism.d
Organization: Duke University; Durham, N.C.

jmc@cs.Stanford.EDU writes:
+I particularly like Snapple raspberry flavored iced tea.  My six
+year old son likes it too.
+
+Remember boycott Tom and Jerry ice cream.

This will probably be pointed out already, but it's Ben and Jerry's.
Which comes to this thought: is it politically neutral to make an ice
cream float with Ben and Jerry's ice cream in Snapple Tru Root Beer? 
-- 
Emil Thomas Chuck (Duke BME '93)		eyc@acpub.duke.edu
I'm too busy for my class, too busy for my clubs, too busy for my work.
I'm too busy for my mail, too busy for my news, too busy for my calls.
I'm too busy for this .sig. 
Newsgroups: alt.activism.d
From: jmc@SAIL.Stanford.EDU (John McCarthy)
Subject: Re: Usual Libels against Chomsky
Reply-To: jmc@cs.Stanford.EDU
Organization: Computer Science Department, Stanford University
	<1992Sep14.204254.2783@techbook.com>
Date: 14 Sep 92 15:57:19

>Let's see, to begin with, let's mention I.F. Stone repeating the
>Stalinist lies about the the South Koreans starting the Korean
>War and the U.S. using germ warfare.

     Stone's assertions were very well documented, but of course
     since Stone was a paid stooge of the Soviet Union (ha ha!
     what a scream!), we can't believe a word he wrote, can we
     McCarthy?

As to Stone's well documented assertions about the South starting the
Korean War, we have Khrushchev's report in the last installment of his
memoirs of Kim Il Sung successfully getting Stalin and Mao to agree to
his starting it.

More recent Soviet sources have added more detail.  Stalin was
reluctant at first, but when Mao supported Kim, Stalin decided to
go along too.

As for Stone taking KGB money, we have Kalugin's story that he
personally gave the money to a prominent American journalist, and
another KGB veteran confirming in Moscow that it was Stone.
Perhaps not quite conclusive, but would Jeff Frame like to bet $50
that further evidence against Stone won't turn up in the next
five years as more Soviet archives become available.

Now as for "Stone's assertions were very well documented", now that we
know that Stone's assertions were lies, we should look at the sources
of the documentation and try to see who concocted them.
--
John McCarthy, Computer Science Department, Stanford, CA 94305
*
He who refuses to do arithmetic is doomed to talk nonsense.

Newsgroups: alt.activism.d
From: aws@iti.org (Allen W. Sherzer)
Subject: Re: The Crimes of Nicaragua: Using Resources to benefit the Majority
Organization: Evil Geniuses for a Better Tomorrow
Date: Tue, 15 Sep 1992 14:22:03 GMT

In article <1992Sep13.095455.29823@mont.cs.missouri.edu> harelb@math.cornell.edu (misc.activism.progressive co-moderator) writes:

>The Sandinista's commitment to political empowerment of the poor...

The only people the Sandinsitas are committed to empower is the Sandinsitas.

I have a question for you Harel (although I'm sure your going to ignore
this the way you ignore all questions you find uncomfortable):

How do the Sandinisa political repressions including censorship, jailing
dissidents without trials, mass killing of opponents, laws restricting
the formation of political parties, suppression of independent labor
movements, and other abuses 'empower' the poor? Is if because the
Sandinsitas are the vanguard of the poor?

  Allen
-- 
+---------------------------------------------------------------------------+
| Allen W. Sherzer | "If they can put a man on the Moon, why can't they     |
|  aws@iti.org     |  put a man on the Moon?"                               |
+----------------------221 DAYS TO FIRST FLIGHT OF DCX----------------------+
Newsgroups: alt.activism.d
From: brian@coombs.anu.edu.au (Brian)
Subject: Re: Usual Libels against Chomsky
Organization: Computer Services Centre, Australian National University
Date: 16 Sep 92 00:45:17 GMT

jmc@SAIL.Stanford.EDU (John McCarthy) writes:

>Now as for "Stone's assertions were very well documented", now that we
>know that Stone's assertions were lies, we should look at the sources
>of the documentation and try to see who concocted them.

	Well, going by my memory of Stone's book on the subject he quoted 
an awful lot of US government and military sources (including signals from 
MacArthur's HQ to Washington).  Its interesting that the US government made 
no effort to deny the contents of the signals, rather it just instead banned
the book from publication (funny that, in a nation where there is "Freedom
of the Press" enshrined in the constitution).
	Stone's premise, that it was possible for the South to have actually
started the war is still quite valid, particularly when one considers that
the South did, upon several occassions before June 1950 cross the border
into the North and provoked several border incursions from the North (and
no, I'm not denying that the North wasn't also doing it).  When coupled 
with the calls by Rhee for "reunification" through force if necessary, it
does paint quite a picture of an aggressive and militaristic regime in
the South.
	However, Stone's premise falls down when one considers the reports
from the assorted UN observers who patrolled the border and reported upon
conditions there _before_ the outbreak of war.  According the report of
one, an RAAF officer who happened to visit the section of border where
the first attack occurred, 24 hours beforehand, the South had no units in
the vicinity (this account was published about 7 years ago in the Australian
Defence Force Journal).


--
Brian Ross____________________________________________________________________
	"If this is the revolution, why are the drinks so fucking expensive?"
		- unsigned Graphitto, Paris, 1968
______________________________________________________________________________
From: dean@vexcel.com (Dean Alaska)
Newsgroups: alt.activism.d
Subject: Re: The Crimes of Nicaragua (VI)
Date: 14 Sep 92 03:08:03 GMT
Organization: VEXCEL Corporation, Boulder, CO

In article <1992Sep13.231823.19322@iti.org> aws@iti.org (Allen W. Sherzer) writes:
>In article <1992Sep12.155922.16968@mont.cs.missouri.edu> harelb@math.cornell.edu (misc.activism.progressive co-moderator) writes:
>
>>"Achievements in health care have also been great...
>
>Except of course for the people tortured and killed by the Sandinista
>army and Security Police. But then I'm sure Harel will assure us that
>they deserved it. Got to break a few eggs to make a good omlet.
>
>  Allen
>
>-- 
>+---------------------------------------------------------------------------+
>| Allen W. Sherzer | "If they can put a man on the Moon, why can't they     |
>|  aws@iti.org     |  put a man on the Moon?"                               |
>+----------------------223 DAYS TO FIRST FLIGHT OF DCX----------------------+

How many people were tortured and killed?  I just received about half a dozen
documents from Amnesty International.  They talk endlessly about bad trials
for former National Guardsmen.  They so say that there never was a policy of
torture, except by the contras.
-- 

		dingo in boulder	(dean@vexcel.com)
From: stojanov@husc10.harvard.edu (Milan Stojanovic)
Newsgroups: alt.activism.d
Subject: Re: Chicago Demonstration 9/19/92
Date: 10 Sep 92 01:17:03 GMT
Organization: Harvard University Science Center

In article <1992Sep10.000619.24788@mont.cs.missouri.edu> susan_soric@upubs.uchicago.edu (Susan Soric) writes:
>There will be a massive demonstration
>in downtown Chicago at 2 p.m. Saturday,
>September 19 at Daley Plaza, sponsored
>by a coalition of Muslims, Christians, and
>peace and justice groups united in their
~~~~~~

>call to end the arms embargo against
         ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

>Bosnia-Herzegovina and Croatia.


You must have meant war and persecution ? 
And why Croatia?  Oh, you have already given up Herceg-Bosna.
Newsgroups: alt.activism.d
From: cmort@NCoast.ORG (Christopher Morton)
Subject: Re: Guzman captured
Reply-To: cmort@ncoast.org (Christopher Morton)
Organization: North Coast Public Access *NIX, Cleveland, OH
Date: Tue, 15 Sep 1992 19:38:45 GMT
Followup-To: alt.activism.d

As quoted from <1414@esl.ESL.COM> by drm@esl.com (Don McGregor ):

> 
> Abimael Guzman, founder and leader of Peru's Shining Path movement, was  
> reported captured by Peruvian police saturday.   
> 
> Attempting to try him in Peru should be interesting, given the  
> difficulties of maintaining order in a state under martial law and under  
> guerilla attack.  I wonder if they'll extradite him to the US for trial on  
> drug smuggling charges.  Probably not, given US-Peru relations.

Well, Shogun por la Vida, Fujimori is already talking about how he can't
stand in the way of the death penalty if that's what the people want. :)

Personally, I think that Guzman and company will be going to visit Andreas
Baader and Ulrike Meinhoff real soon.  I expect that he's going to become VERY
despondent and shoot himself seven times with a S&W .38 revolver.

Wasn't it a famous Soviet who once said, "Any fool can commit a murder, but it
takes an artist to commit a suicide...."? :)

I think we've about reached the end of the sendero... if the Shogun's smart.

-- 
------------------------------------------------------------------  

"Well whose opinions did you THINK these were...?" 
------------------------------------------------------------------  
Xref: sparky alt.activism.d:3056 misc.activism.progressive:6374 soc.culture.china:25004
From: dan@chaos.cs.brandeis.edu (Dan Schwarz)
Newsgroups: alt.activism.d,misc.activism.progressive,soc.culture.china
Subject: ACTION: Rally at Brandeis U. for Shen Tong 9/10/92
Date: 7 Sep 92 20:32:00 GMT
Followup-To: alt.activism.d
Organization: Brandeis University
Originator: rich@pencil.cs.missouri.edu

A coalition of students, faculty, and alumni at Brandeis University
have joined together to support fellow alumnus Shen Tong '91, who was
arrested September 1 in Beijing, China for scheduling a press
conference to promote his Democracy for China fund.

A rally is tentatively scheduled for 12:30pm, 9/10/92 at the Usdan
Student Center on the campus of Brandeis University in Waltham,
Massachusetts.

The coalition is planning future actions to support democratic reforms
in China and to secure the freedom of Shen Tong and other Chinese
dissidents. We need your help!

* Organizing larger events in the Boston area and at other campuses

* Coordinating efforts between college campuses

* Speakers (Boston Area) who are familiar with the democracy movement
  in China

* English->Chinese and Chinese->English translation

If you are interested in helping out, please telephone the WATCH office
at Brandeis University, (617) 736-4776 and ask for Jen Lewin or leave
a message on the answering machine. You may also send email to this
account (dan@chaos.cs.brandeis.edu) but replies may take a week.

-----------------------------------------------------------------

Everyone is welcome to attend the rally as well; here are basic directions
to Brandeis University:

By MBTA: Take the Commuter Rail (Fitchburg/Gardner line) to the Brandeis/
Roberts stop. You can pick up the Commuter Rail from the Red Line at
Porter Square. Once you are at Brandeis/Roberts, go across the parking lot,
make a right and walk up the hill, and you're on South Street. Follow
directions below.

By Car: Brandeis is at the intersection of Rt. 128 (95) and Mass Pike (90)
Take Exit 24 off Rt. 128, make a left at the top of the ramp and your first
right. This is South Street. Follow directions below.

Take Exit 14 off the Mass Pike, follow signs towards rt. 30. Make a right
onto Rt. 30 (TOWARDS Newton) and take your first left at the arrow. This is
South Street. Follow directions below.

Follow South Street over a bridge, past the railroad tracks, and up a hill.
You'll see signs for Brandeis University on your left. Enter and ask at the
main gate for directions to Usdan Student Center.

----------------------------------------------
Newsgroups: alt.activism.d
From: joec@fid.morgan.com (Joe Collins)
Subject: Re: "No New Taxes!"                 (*)For the rich
Organization: None
Date: Tue, 15 Sep 1992 21:37:07 GMT

In article <1992Sep15.194252.16716@mont.cs.missouri.edu> harelb@math.cornell.edu (misc.activism.progressive co-moderator) writes:
>
>                --------------------------------------
>                Study: 90% Pay More due to Tax Changes
>                --------------------------------------
>
>    "WASHINGTON-- 90% of American families pay more in federal taxes
>    now than they would if the tax laws existing in 1977 had been left
>    in place, Citizens for Tax Justice reported Thursday.
This group is funded by either labor or a liberal group,
I forget which. It doesn't make it bad but its worth knowing who is
behind the group.

>    But the very rich, as a result of tax-law changes over the last 13
>    years, are paying up to 36 percent less than they would have, the
>    group said.
Per the Wall Street Journal, the wealthy are paying more than ever.

>    The results are similar to finding reported two weeks ago by the
>    Congressional Budget Office.
Controlled by the Democratic majority in Congress.

>    Several congressional Democrats cited the report as additional
>    proof of their contention that the Reagan and Bush administrations
>    pushed changes in the tax law that reward the rich and penalize
>    everyone else."
It is an election year...We will hear charges and counter-charges
from both sides.

>[From: Chicago Tribune, 3/9/90 p.12. While our Free Press reports
>"Read My Lips" etc as front-page material, this little fact, affecting
>only 90% of their readers, was reported by the Tribune in the tiny
>note I've just reproduced, near the bottom of page 12.]

The Wall Street Journals counter to the above story was their lead
editorial about 2 weeks ago. I just wish I saved it.

Joe
joec@morgan.com
usual disclaimers....
Newsgroups: alt.activism.d,alt.rush-limbaugh,talk.abortion
From: titmas@chdasic.sps.mot.com (Eric Titmas)
Subject: Re: "Snapple" Anti-Choice?
Organization: SPS
Date: Wed, 16 Sep 1992 02:05:31 GMT

In article <1992Sep15.150319.10154@guinness.idbsu.edu>, jahn@guinness.Idbsu.EDU (Greg Jahn) writes:
|> In article <1992Sep15.134140.9520@mtu.edu>, mtjachim@mtu.edu 
|> (Mr. M. T. Jachimstal) writes:
|> |>jrs@netcom.com (John Switzer) writes:
|> |>>In article <JYM.92Sep15001340@remarque.berkeley.edu>
|> |>jym@mica.berkeley.edu (Jym Dyer) writes:
|> |>>>=o= I heard that "Snapple" brand drinks -- the favorite of
|> |>>>everyone's favorite idiot radio show host -- donates part of
|> |>>>their profits to anti-choice groups.  Can anyone confirm or
|> |>>>deny this rumor?
|> |>>
|> |>>Anti-choice? Ah, you mean pro-life. I hope the rumor is true. If so,
|> |>|>>I'll start buying more of it.
|> |>>-- 
|> |>>John Switzer               | 50 years from now, nobody will
|> |>>                           | remember Candice Bergen or Murphy
|> |>>74076.1250@Compuserve.com  | Brown, but every school kid will
|> |>>jrs@netcom.com             | be taught about President Quayle.
|> |>
|> |>So if pro-life=anti-choice then pro-choice must mean anti-life, eh?
|> |>
|> |>Sounds good to me. Time to go out and buy a few cases of Snapple.
|> |>
|> |>Matthew
|> 
|> Hey, I think it's great both you GUYS will never have an abortion,
|> I probably will not either, now, let everyone else, particularly
|> the women that will actually have to confront the situation, come
|> to their own conclusions.
|> 
But the baby should get the ultimate decision!

-- 
Eric Titmas      Motorola ASIC       titmas@chdasic.sps.mot.com               

It is impossible to take in more money than Congress can spend.  - Thomas Sowell
Xref: sparky alt.activism.d:3102 alt.rush-limbaugh:4923 talk.abortion:36646
From: cj@eno.wpd.sgi.com (C.J. Silverio)
Newsgroups: alt.activism.d,alt.rush-limbaugh,talk.abortion
Subject: Re: "Snapple" Anti-Choice?
Date: 15 Sep 92 21:14:30 GMT
Reply-To: cj@sgi.com
Followup-To: misc.test
Organization: SGI TechPubs


In article <1992Sep15.182627.13591@news.uiowa.edu>, bnolte@herky.cs.uiowa.edu writes:
|I can't confirm or deny this rumor, but if it's true, it gives
|me one more reason to be a proud Snapple drinker.  By the way,
|friend, it is pro-life.

By the way, my friend, it's "pro-life-until-birth, we-don't
give-a-damn-afterward".  I've read enough of you so called
"pro-lifers" here wishing an early death to people who disagree
with you (Steve Arnold did it just this week) to believe your
"we like life" lie any more.

---
cj@eno.wpd.sgi.com	C J Silverio/Brahms Gang/Berkeley CA 94720
"She knew not how to reconcile two such very different accounts of the 
same thing; for she had not been brought up [...] to know to how many 
idle assertions and impudent falsehoods the excess of vanity will 
lead." --Jane Austen