From: lmpm@teal.csn.org (L. M. P. McPherson)
Subject: The Strange Affair Between Dave Casper and alt.astrology
Organization: Colorado SuperNet, Inc.
Date: Wed, 7 Oct 1992 21:11:44 GMT


Since everyone is discussing Dave Casper's chart (could it be
those transits of Uranus and Neptune to his IC? Everybody keeps
talking about his mother. Neptune's conjunction is exact on
October 9: encounters with the unknown, i.e., occult, challenging
deeply ingrained beliefs and values -- and during his first
Saturn return, yet!), I thought I'd jump on the bandwagon. Sort
of. This is not so much a reading of his chart as an attempt to
discover the source of his peculiar interest in this group.

For reference, here is Dave's chart (September 8, 1963, 8:35 am
EST, 83W03, 42N20):

+-------<11>19Leo51----<10>16Can13-----<9>11Gem50-----------+
| Ura 06Vir17  | Nod 17Can25r |              |              |
| Plu 12Vir01  |              |              |              |
| Sun 15Vir11  |              |              |              |
| Ven 17Vir46  |              | For 18Gem17  | Moo 19Tau43  |
<12>19Vir18----|-----------------------------|-----10Tau36<8>
| Pal 26Vir23  |                             |              |
| Mer 05Lib00r |                             |              |
| Jun 12Lib34  |                             | Ver 04Tau38  |
|              |                             | Jup 18Ari02r |
<1>13Lib44-----|                             |-----13Ari44<7>
| Cer 16Lib56  |                             |              |
| Mar 27Lib28  |                             |              |
| Ves 00Sco06  |                             |              |
|              |                             |              |
<2>10Sco36-----|-----------------------------|-----19Pis18<6>
| Nep 13Sco25  |              |              |              |
|              |              |              |              |
|              |              |              |              |
|              |              | Sat 17Aqu54r | Chi 12Pis00r |
+-----------11Sag50<3>-----16Cap13<4>-----19Aqu51<5>--------+


One thing that struck me in particular is Dave's stellium in
Virgo. It looked familiar. Turns out that two other formerly very
active members of alt.astrology have a very similar stellium; one
was born on September 13 of 1963, 5 days after Dave, and the
other was born on September 5, 3 days earlier than Dave. I don't
recall any other such clustering of birth dates among salient
members of the group. So I asked myself, why are people born at
that time attracted to this group? In Dave's case, the attraction
is particularly odd (as many have pointed out) because he
professes no serious interest in astrology, his efforts to
convert us to his world view and save our souls from the fires of
irrationality have failed utterly, he is often the victim of
hostile abuse from those who feel his comments are not in sync
with the purpose of the group (which they aren't; sorry, Dave,
but the type of discussion in which you wish to engage belongs in
sci.skeptic, not in alt.astrology; this is not *sci.astrology*),
and yet he has hung around here for the better part of a year.

I decided to look at the chart for the creation of the group to
see what attracts these people with a stellium of Uranus, Pluto,
Sun and Venus in (or near) Virgo. After looking at the chart, the
source of the attraction is obvious.

Here is the chart for the group. I do not know what event
occurred at this time; this chart was posted before I joined the
group, and I received it second-hand. If any reader knows the
nature of the event, please let me know. I suspect it is the time
of the first posting to the group. The data are, July 29, 1991,
6:22:38 pm GST (-10 h), Sydney, Australia, 151E13, 33S52.


+-------<11>19Sag48----<10>15Sco50-----<9>13Lib15-----------+
| Ura 10Cap51r | Plu 17Sco34  |              |              |
| Nep 14Cap49r |              |              |              |
| Nod 18Cap03r |              |              | Pal 00Lib05  |
|              |              | Cer 29Lib25  | For 19Vir47  |
<12>21Cap55----|-----------------------------|-----14Vir51<8>
| Jun 23Cap03r |                             |              |
| Sat 03Aqu20r |                             | Mar 08Vir33  |
|              |                             | Ven 07Vir09  |
|              |                             | Mer 02Vir14  |
<1>20Aqu59-----|                             |-----20Leo59<7>
| Moo 04Pis30  |                             | Jup 20Leo15  |
|              |                             | Sun 05Leo44  |
|              |                             | Chi 01Leo58  |
|              |                             | Ves 27Can35  |
<2>14Pis51-----|-----------------------------|-----21Can55<6>
|              |              |              |              |
|              |              |              |              |
|              |              |              |              |
|              |              |              | Ver 03Can01  |
+-----------13Ari15<3>-----15Tau50<4>-----19Gem48<5>--------+



Behold -- a stellium in Virgo and another in Capricorn (Uranus,
Neptune, Moon's Node). So earthy! No wonder we can't often
sustain intellectual discussions here! The only planet in air is
Saturn, and it is opposed by the Sun and buried in the 12th
house! The chart does have Aquarius rising, though (but the
ascendant is square Pluto and opposed by Jupiter).

For the people born in September of 1963, the Capricorn stellium
is trine their Virgo stellium, and the Virgo stellium in the
group's chart is conjunct part of their Virgo stellium. In Dave's
case, note in particular the tight conjunction of the group's
Venus (07Vir09) and his Uranus (06Vir17). This contact alone
could account for his fascination with the group. As anyone who
has had such a contact with a person knows, the Venus entity is
irresistible to Uranus. (See Ronald Davison's "Synastry" or
Frances Sakoian and Louis S. Acker's "The Astrology of Human
Relationships.")

Another compelling aspect is the sextile of Dave's Venus
(17Vir46) and the group's Pluto (17Sco34). He is drawn to the
group for reasons unknown, and can't escape its pull.

Dave's Taurus Moon receives trines from the group's Capricorn
stellium, although it is squared by its Jupiter (his gut
reactions are at odds with the group's philosophy and higher
knowledge). Dave's Saturn, which is square his Moon, opposes the
group's Jupiter, so he is harshly and coldly critical of the
group's philosophy and learned pursuits as well. The group's
Pluto opposes his Moon, so his habitual reactions, which are
typically stubborn, conventional, impenetrable to new
information, dogmatic and fixed (Taurean), bring out violent
opposition from the group, whose members attempt to eradicate him
with Plutonian force. (They routinely fail.) His Saturn and Moon
form a Grand Cross with the group's Jupiter and Pluto. (His
Neptune at 13Sco26 is also loosely tied into the Grand Cross.)
This is particularly significant because the group's Jupiter and
Pluto are angular, with Jupiter on the descendant (just like
Dave's Jupiter) and Pluto on the Midheaven. (Note that with
Jupiter on the descendant, this group creates many opportunities
for relationships to form. With Pluto on the Midheaven, we may
appear darkly emotional and violent, especially since the square
from Jupiter expands the Plutonian energy, but we may also have
the power of transformation and healing, if we could somehow find
the higher side of Pluto -- right guys?)

Dave's Jupiter (18Ari02) trines the group's Jupiter (20Leo15),
but loosely squares the ruler of the first house, Uranus, and the
planet with which it is conjunct, Neptune. So the group's
unconventional (Uranian) and mystical (Neptunian) nature are at
odds with his philosophy and the knowledge he has acquired
through higher education (Jupiter), but there is a chance for
harmony between the group's philosophy and his on occasion,
probably during transits that reinforce this Jupiter-Jupiter
trine (which is usually overcome by the Grand Cross his Saturn-
Moon and the group's Jupiter-Pluto form). Any transiting planet
near 19 degrees of any fire sign would bring out the positive
effect of this trine. (November 5, Venus reaches 19 Sag, and
December 11 the Sun reaches that point; I guess we'll have to
wait until then for some harmony. No slow-moving planets are in
fire, so don't expect any lasting harmony.)

Some in this group have suggested that Dave projects the feminine
onto the group. I don't presume to know whether this is the case,
but it is not uncommon for youngish men (especially those raised
in Michigan) to project their anima, and his very masculine
persona (which may just be Mars in the first talking; he has four
planets and the lights in feminine signs) does seem to suggest
that he has not yet incorporated the feminine into his
personality, that he has yet to experience the alchemical
marriage, the "mysterium conionctionis" that produces
psychological and spiritual gold. His hostility towards the
occult, an aspect of the feminine, and towards spirituality (or
at least religion) in general, does hint at repression of the
anima. And repression often leads to projection. (See, for
example, Carl Jung's "Two Essays on Analytical Psychology.")

Projection occurs most readily with oppositions. Like the Moon
reflecting the Sun's light at their opposition (i.e., at the Full
Moon), the opposing planet provides a mirror (although the image
is rarely experienced as one's own). The feminine, the Moon, in
Dave's chart opposes the group's angular Pluto, so his anima, if
projected, appears to him in the form of the group's violent
attempts to destroy his ego. (The Moon, which continually hides
one of its faces from us, rules the occult, so a group devoted to
an occult science is lunar. It thus forms the perfect object for
projection of a lunar image -- the anima.) Why is this feminine
image so violent? When such puzzles arise, it is always wise for
the subject to look to his dreams.

Dave's Uranus opposes the group's Moon, so his presence irks us
at a gut level. We just cannot be comfortable around him.

His first-house Mars, the source of his aggression towards the
group (I know, Dave, you don't *think* of yourself as aggressive,
but behind the Libran air of fairness, there is quite some
aggression there...), is loosely square the group's Saturn, a
source of enmity. Mars-Saturn contacts are a bit like a
transformer; Saturn tries to curb the activity of Mars, and like
the transformer reducing a 120 V input to a 12 V output, much
heat is generated. Sometimes the thing just blows.

The group's Mars at 8Vir33 is conjunct Dave's Uranus (6Vir17) and
Pluto (12Vir01). Mars-Uranus produces sudden, heated outbursts,
but also much excitement. Mars-Pluto is violent, with Pluto
drawing out the most aggressive side of Mars, but this contact is
also passionate and compelling. Mars (the group) feels an urge to
probe the depths of Pluto's (Dave's) psyche. And we do. Pluto
(Dave) may deliberately try to make Mars (other group members)
behave rashly, ending in self-destruction. (I don't think Dave
will deny that he attempts to provoke us -- unless such attempts
arise from subconscious quarters, as if often the case with
Pluto.)

Dave's Saturn is conjunct the group's ascendant. This indicates
that he is very critical of the group, and expects much of us. He
is experienced as overly demanding. ("Give me proof!") This
contact also produces an enduring relationship.

The group has Jupiter conjunct Dave's 11th cusp, so it provides
him with many opportunities for impersonal (Aquarian)
relationships in a group setting, and may even tend to foster
friendships. The group has Uranus and Neptune on Dave's IC
(Neptune is especially close), so it tends to work away gradually
at his most unquestioned beliefs and values, subtly and in
unexpected ways.

The group has Saturn on Dave's 5th cusp, reinforcing his natal
placement of Saturn there. His attempts to express himself in the
group forum are met with cold criticism and harsh judgement. He
is denied the pleasure he seeks here. But the group also has the
Moon in his fifth house, so he does find some receptivity, or at
least a reflection of himself.

What about the relationship chart (cast for the mid-point in time
and space of the two births)? It is cast for August 18, 1977,
10:58 am GMT, 94E46, 19N05:


+-------<11>14Sag32----<10>18Sco26-----<9>18Lib13-----------+
|              | Jun 18Sco34  |              | Plu 12Lib18  |
|              | Nep 13Sag23r | Ura 08Sco10  | Moo 09Lib05  |
|              |              | Cer 21Lib42  | Pal 27Vir40  |
|              |              | Nod 17Lib44r | Mer 20Vir01  |
<12>09Cap29----|-----------------------------|-----13Vir06<8>
|              |                             | Ves 10Vir22  |
|              |                             | Ver 08Vir59  |
|              |                             | Sun 25Leo23  |
|              |                             | Sat 21Leo04  |
<1>06Aqu55-----|                             |-----06Leo55<7>
|              |                             |              |
|              |                             |              |
|              |                             |              |
|              |                             | Ven 18Can03  |
<2>13Pis06-----|-----------------------------|-----09Can29<6>
| For 20Pis38  | Chi 05Tau43r |              |              |
|              |              |              |              |
|              |              |              | Jup 29Gem39  |
|              |              |              | Mar 21Gem25  |
+-----------18Ari13<3>-----18Tau26<4>-----14Gem32<5>--------+


Moon-Pluto in the 8th is very compelling -- some might say
karmic. Feelings, both positive and negative, are intense. It is
difficult to be cool. There is an opportunity for transformation
of habitual reactions picked up from the environment and arising
from the subconscious mind, resulting in a penetration of the
mysteries. Neptune on the 11th cusp suggests somehow weird
friendships that are refined and spiritual, characterised by
kindness and a minimal involvement of ego. Note the Sun-Saturn
conjunction in the seventh. This is a very long-term
relationship. Dave is here to stay. But Sun-Saturn binds together
for a purpose: to allow lessons to be learned. This contact
indicates constant criticism and a lack of acceptance. Sun-Saturn
does not believe in "live and let live." The relationship feels
confining. ("If only he weren't around, we could have such great
discussions...") But it has much to teach both parties through an
exposure of their true natures, laying bare any weaknesses they
may have. If the weaknesses could be overcome, this contact could
realise its highest manifestation: mutual respect.

To further understand the purpose of Dave's odd relationship with
this group, I cast a chart for the time of his first posting to
the group, which began (rather arrogantly), "A scientist responds
to `frequently asked questions' after stopping into alt.astrology
for the first time." His apparent aim was to enlighten the
ignorant heathens in this group with his superior scientific
knowledge.

The data are, February 19, 1992, 14:52:09 GMT, Geneva, 6E09,
46N12. Here is the chart:

+-------<11>27Tau30----<10>19Ari28-----<9>18Pis37-----------+
|              |              |              | Sun 00Pis13  |
|              |              |              | Mer 06Pis08  |
|              |              |              | Jun 10Pis48  |
|              |              |              |              |
<12>05Can19----|-----------------------------|-----25Aqu05<8>
| Chi 06Leo12r |                             | Nod 07Cap10r |
|              |                             | Cer 17Cap28  |
|              |                             | Sat 11Aqu41  |
|              |                             | For 24Aqu16  |
<1>06Leo16-----|                             |-----06Aqu16<7>
|              |                             | Ura 16Cap27  |
|              |                             | Nep 17Cap59  |
|              |                             | Mar 01Aqu06  |
|              |                             | Ven 01Aqu08  |
<2>25Leo05-----|-----------------------------|-----05Cap19<6>
| Jup 10Vir54r | Ves 28Vir20r | Plu 22Sco57  | Ver 24Sag05  |
| Moo 18Vir13  |              |              | Pal 25Sag17  |
|              |              |              |              |
|              |              |              |              |
+-----------18Vir37<3>-----19Lib28<4>-----27Sco30<5>--------+


Dave's Jupiter, at 18Ari02, was on the Midheaven at the time.
Jupiter was applying to a conjunction of his Pluto in the 11th
(12Vir01), expanding his tendency to try to overpower, control,
and transform people in group settings. Saturn was just about to
sextile his ascendant (at 11Sag50), and Uranus was sitting right
on his IC (at 16Cap13). So he went out and found (unwittingly) a
challenge to the beliefs he had absorbed from the culture during
his upbringing. (Astrology is ruled by Uranus.) Uranus and
Neptune were (and are) forming a Grand Trine with his Moon
(19Tau43) and his Sun and Venus (Neptune was almost exactly trine
to his Venus -- 13 minutes of arc). The Moon had just crossed his
Venus (at 17Vir46) and was about to trine his Moon (at 19Tau43),
thus adding strength to the Grand Trine pattern. So he was
feeling very expansive and confident, especially since the point
of his natal Jupiter was culminating at the time. He saw himself
as a spokesperson for higher learning (ruled by Jupiter; trines
are also Jovian), as a teacher (albeit one with rather heavy-
handed and tactless teaching methods). So it seems that Dave is
sincere when he says that he is trying to save us from ourselves
as a kind of service to the Truth taught in the universities,
with which he clearly identifies (poor thing). But who will save
him from himself?

The group's Sun (at 5Leo44) was sitting on the ascendant at the
time of his posting, making it the focus of attention. Transiting
Chiron was also on the ascendant. The group's Saturn had just
set, so the group was attracting a critic. Transiting Jupiter
(which was retrograde at 10Vir54) was closely applying to a trine
of the group's Uranus (at 10Cap51), stirring up a little
excitement.


Maggie



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