HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: sflynn@krusty.ee.udel.edu (Steven J Flynn)
Subject: Re: Question about buying American?
Organization: University of Delaware, Newark
Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1992 13:39:18 GMT

In article <BxxI2D.32A@news.cso.uiuc.edu> djm48887@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (Dan Moisson) writes:
>I have a question about buying American cars.  I am sure if we all
>could find the perfect vehicle for us that was produced by
>an American car manufacturer, we would.  Like, helping our
>country out if possible.  Therefore, knowing the situation
>with the Diamond Star and other "joint" ventures, is there
>any advantage to the good ole' U.S. to buy say a Plymouth Laser
>over a Mitsubishi Elcipse?  Or Stealth vs. 3000GT?  ie, would it
>help the US more by buying a US name plate??
>

I recently purchased a '92 Stealth Twin Turbo.  I had my heart set on
a 3000GT, but as soon as the 93 model year arrived the Mits. dealer
marked up the price of their 3000GT's $5000 across the board, this
included the REMAINING 92s still on the lot.

They didn't even try to hide it.  All the stickers has $5000 hand
written in pen.  The list price of a 93 3000GT VR-4 was now $40,000.  I went
to the Dodge dealer across the stree and bought a 92 Stealth for
about $29,000. (the sticker was $32,000).  I don't think I could have
talked the VR-4 down to less then 33-34000, and they are the exact
same car!!! (unless you consider the active aerodynamics worth
$5000!!!)

Buy a Dodge, the salesmen aren't as stuck up about themselves, probably
because they sell Dodges.

Steve Flynn
University of Delaware

Newsgroups: rec.autos
From: murthy+@EDRC.CMU.EDU (Sesh Murthy)
Subject: Re: Whining about buying American cars
Organization: Carnegie Mellon University
Distribution: usa
Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1992 19:05:53 GMT

In article <2179@shaman.wv.tek.com>, andrew@frip.WV.TEK.COM (Andrew Klossner) writes:
|> []
|> 
|> 	"For comparable products I prefer my money to go and put food
|> 	on some kid from Detroit's table rather than be used somewhere
|> 	else."
|> 
|> Let's drag it out into the sunlight.  You'd rather help feed a kid from
|> Detroit than a kid from Tsutsumi.  Is this not racism?
|> 
|>   -=- Andrew Klossner  (andrew@frip.wv.tek.com)
|>                        (uunet!tektronix!frip.WV.TEK!andrew)
Andrew, this is not playing fair.  What you are doing is the equivalent of
McCarthyism.  Labelling something communist meant that you could not
discuss it then.  Labelling something as racism means that it automatically
becomes bad now.

In fact I admire the Japanese.  They are the first people to show in this
century that you do not have to be white to be smart.  

However the question has nothing to do with race.  Can you as an engineer 
or factory worker go and work in Japan if you lost your job.   

If Wang were to become so powerful that IBM went out of business, I would
not care.  I could go and work for Wang presumably. (yes I know Wang went
bankrupt but I am just making a point.)

But if Toyota, designing its cars and making most of the parts in Japan,
manages to make GM and Chrysler close up 50% of their plants
then a whole host of people get unemployed here  and they cannot go to
work in Japan.  I get to pay the taxes to 
keep these people alive, and I get to deal with the society that decays
because of a lack of jobs.  Lastly where is my daughter going to find
jobs if I managed to export all jobs to foreign countries.

If I because of my shortsighted greed force American plants to close,
a whole host of manufacturing skills will disappear.   Does anyone know
how to mass-produce TVs VCRs and Flat-panel displays in the US anymore.

Do  you want the same thing to happen to car manufacturing.

Buying American is just common sense.  It has nothing to do
with racism.  I do not even belong to the same race as the people
who make my cars.

Sesh Murthy
 
Newsgroups: rec.autos
From: cka52397@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (Slartibartfast)
Subject: Re: Stats on Auto fatalities - selected nations
Organization: University of Illinois at Urbana
Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1992 05:31:04 GMT

In article <1992Nov18.130945.3149@infonode.ingr.com> greg@cherokee.b23b.ingr.com (Greg Moritz) writes:
>Saw a recent chart on Auto fatalities (deaths per 160 million kilometers):
> Lawyers per 100,000 people...
>
>      US          315<-------------
>      Japan       100<-------------
	Ever wonder why the US isn't as competetive?  Look at these and then
check out the engineers per capita numbers...




-- 
"The Clergy Dazzle us with Heaven or they Damn us into Hell"  Billy Bragg!!!!!
IIIII  L    L    IIIII NNNNN IIIII   Chintan Amin c-amin1@uiuc.edu DEPT of E.E.
  I    L    L      I   N   N   I   RUSH	YES FLOYD METALLICA PEARLJAM REM PG
IIIII  LLLL LLLL IIIII N   N IIIII   GO TARHEELS  GO CAPITALS GO COWBOYS
From: johns@trident.datasys.swri.edu (Stephen Johns)
Newsgroups: rec.autos
Subject: Re: HOW TO AVOID HITTING THE WALL IN GARAGE
Date: 20 Nov 92 14:47:20 GMT
Organization: Southwest Research Institute

In article <1992Nov19.213538.14792@noose.ecn.purdue.edu> rjwade@rainbow.ecn.purdue.edu (Robert J. Wade) writes:

[stuff deleted]

>
>here's a crazy trick i have learned...as i drive into the garage i look out
>thru the windshield at the wall and the front of the car and i *stop* before
> the front of the car gets to the wall.  may sound weird...but try it...it 
>really works!

Amen, brother!  Sheesh, I don't believe this thread is happening!!!


SOMEONE -
		PLEASE -
			   MAKE IT STOP!!!
-- 
Stephen Johns, Research Analyst
Southwest Research Institute, SA, TX 78228 (512) 522-5751
Newsgroups: rec.autos
From: jwg@sedv1.acd.com ( Jim Grey)
Subject: Re: HOW TO AVOID HITTING THE WALL IN GARAGE
Organization: Applied Computing Devices, Inc., Terre Haute IN
Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1992 13:35:33 GMT

In article <1992Nov19.020843.4524@attila.weitek.COM> ehsan@attila.UUCP () writes:
>
>hi, I am sure a lot of people have a similar problem. Where can one buy
>blocks of cement/concrete so that we know how far to drive a car into
>garage. similar to one found in parking lots?
>thanks.


There are other ways to avoid smacking into the back wall of your garage:
 
1.  Attach an old tire to the back wall.  When you bump up against it, stop.
 
2.  Hang a tennis ball from a long string, at about the place where your
    windshield should be when the car is where you want it.  When your
    windshield hits the tennis ball, stop.
 
3.  Paint a mark on the left or right wall of the garage at about the place
    your body is in the car when the car is where you want it.  When you
    drive in and are lined up with the mark, stop.
 
I've seen all of these tricks used, to great success.
 
jim grey
jwg@acd4.acd.com
Xref: sparky rec.autos:27605 rec.autos.tech:15719 ba.market.misc:8759
From: jamesf@btr.btr.com (James G. Franklin  jamesf@btr.com)
Newsgroups: rec.autos,rec.autos.tech,ba.market.misc
Subject: Performer manifold, Holley carbs for sale
Date: 22 Nov 92 19:25:55 GMT
Followup-To: rec.autos
Distribution: ba
Organization: BTR Public Access UNIX, MtnView CA. For info contact: info@BTR.COM

I have laying around from my car wrenching days an Edelbrock Performer
manifold, and two Holley carburators. The manifols is for a small block
chevy, and the carbs will fit most small displacement (350 & under) GM
engines. One is a spreadbore quadrajet, the other a square bore. Prices
are $50 for manifold, $25 each for carbs, all negotiable. I can be reached
via email at jamesf@btr.com, and phone at 415-322-7367. I am in Palo Alto.

jim
 
Newsgroups: rec.autos
From: schludermann@sscvx1.ssc.gov
Subject: 4 320is wheels for sale/trade
Summary: 4 BMW 320is wheels
Keywords: wheels
Organization: Superconducting Super Collider Laboratory
Date: Wed, 18 Nov 1992 16:27:25 GMT

   I've 4 BMW 320is (bbs basketweave) wheels 13xj5.5 for sale/trade. I'm
willing to trade towards a set of 14x7 or 15x7 wheels to fit a datsun roadster.
14x6 z-car wheels have worked in the past, but the roadster can not accomidate
any more positive offset. I'm not to particular about the style something
basic like spoke or indy sloted wheels, nothing to late model in design
though. 

Kris
From: colombo@neal.fnal.gov
Newsgroups: rec.autos
Subject: Re: Ultrasonic deer repellent whistles
Date: 23 Nov 92 20:02:47 GMT
Article-I.D.: neal.1992Nov23.140247.1
Organization: Fermilab Computing Division

In article <9211211714.AA26913@ncsuvx.ncsu.edu>, PNCSPPC@ccvax1.cc.ncsu.edu writes:
> Do those ultrasonic deer repellent whistles that you mount on the front
> bumper really work?  Supposedly, they will also repel dogs and other animals,
> too.  I was thinking about getting a pair since where my parents live
> there are a lot of deer, and I'd prefer not to have one jump in front of my
> car.  However, it seems as though it wouldn't be very easy to test the
> efficacy of these things.  Any comments?
>  
>  

Do you mean can the deer hear it?  I suppose so, but nobody told the deer
that the noise means to get the f*ck outta the way, a car is coming.  ;-)

-- 
 ___________________________________________________________________________
 *****  *   *  From the e-net desk of: Rick Colombo CD/DCD/DSG    *    *
 *      **  *  Fermi Nat'l Acc'l Lab   708-840-8225 Fermilab     * *   *
 ***    * * *  P.O. Box 500   MS 369   Feynman Computer Center  *****  *
 *      *  **  Batavia, Ill. USA 60510 Colombo@fnal.fnal.gov    *   *  *****
 *     Of course I speak for Fermilab, Congress and the President... NOT !!!
Newsgroups: rec.autos
From: awds_ltd@uhura.cc.rochester.edu (Clarkkent)
Subject: Gatorbacks traded for Snow Tires: where's the beef?
Organization: University of Rochester - Rochester, New York
Distribution: na
Date: Thu, 19 Nov 92 16:58:55 GMT

Thought I'd post this for anyone who owns/drives a sporty car with
high performance tires(in the winter) 

After much 'hemming and hawing' I decided to order a set of four snow
tires to go on my Thunderbird Turbo Coupe's 16"x8" aluminum rims.
This was pretty much my last resort aside from parking the car for the
winter or braving it with the Goodyear Eagle vr(22560r16).
I'd been looking for steel wheels for the car, but no tire dealer/wholesaler 
could locate 15 inch size which would make it easier/more economical to 
get decent winter grip.

So, I called the various mail order companies listed in C&D, R&T, etc, 
came up with a relatively inexpensive solution.  The Continental Winter
Contact TS 750.  I got 4 of them (22560HR16) shipped to my home for
410$.  No tax is nice.  I thought that'd be a good deal, at least
until Pep Boys charged me 72$ to change 'em to my wheels.  That's
not a cut on Pep Boys, my Goodyear dealer(where I recently bought
4 new Gatorbacks) wanted over 100$!

So, I add 18$ to each of the tire's 98$ price to arrive at 116$,
mounted, balanced, stemmed, whatever..  This is only 10$/tire
cheaper than a better name all season (BF Goodrich Comp T/A VR4)
at retail.  Still 10$ cheaper, but through mail order I DON'T
have the option of road hazard coverage.

Now on to the tires themselves.  The tread is deep block, with lots
of sipes all over the place.  The tire looks narrower overall, despite
its 225 dimension, but that's probably due to tread design, the side
where the tread meets the sidewall has treading on it as well.

I thought I was going to get a traffic ticket yesterday when I pulled
out into traffic, beside a State Trooper!  I let out the clutch as
I was used to with the stickier Goodyears, and 'SQUAAAAAAAAAWWWWWK!"
Those little fuzzy tire hairs must've gone then.  

Cornering is diminished as well.  It's easier to provoke all four
wheels to skid and squawk when cornering at moderate(for the car)
speeds.

I haven't had the fortune to try these in the snow, but I'll be in
Maine over Turkey Day(I'll be dropping in 200# in the trunk also)
and am looking forward to some 4wheeling(I should be entitled to
it for over 400$!)  

If anyone is interested in how they work, email and I'll get back to ya

Cheers!

Adam 

awds_ltd@uhura.cc.rochester.edu

Newsgroups: rec.autos
From: rjwade@rainbow.ecn.purdue.edu (Robert J. Wade)
Subject: Re: Plymouth or Oldsmobile?
Organization: Purdue University Engineering Computer Network
Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1992 15:53:27 GMT

In article <1992Nov20.135531.14519@kocrsv01.delcoelect.com> c23st@kocrsv01.delcoelect.com (Spiros Triantafyllopoulos) writes:
>In article <1992Nov19.214222.14916@noose.ecn.purdue.edu> rjwade@rainbow.ecn.purdue.edu (Robert J. Wade) writes:
>>yea, plymouth name sucks.  no one wants to own a *plymouth*.  same with 
>>OLDsmobile.  an OLD-car...for OLD-goats.  i think xlyer should dump the 
>>plymouth name.  eagle is cool name and mostly cool products(not the premier though).
>
>Gee Robert, 
>
>I guess you've never heard of the Olds Aerotech in the Late 80's... World
>Speed record for closed circuit, specially modified quad 4 engine (600 to
>800 hp), super-aero, sustained speed on a circle of around 270-280 mph...
>
>Took a 20 year standing Mercedes Benz record down. And that was an Olds
>project...
>
>Anyhow. 
>
>Spiros
>-- 
actually i have.  that was a cool special effort and speaks well of the quad4.
my point is they don't apply those efforts the cars they make that one can
buy.  they just make a bunch of fake-plastic-chrome/fake-plastic-wood 
trim-mobiles that are pretty uninspiring.  maybe the 94 aurora will break that
trend...i'll have to see the interior to know for sure.
Newsgroups: rec.autos
From: henry@bms.com (Henry Mednikoff)
Subject: Re: Whining about buying American cars
Reply-To: henry@bms.com
Organization: Bristol-Myers Squibb PRI
Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1992 16:02:28 GMT

In article 1eh1bvINNmv3@gap.caltech.edu, lxrosser@cco.caltech.edu (Alex Rosser) writes:
>jimf@centerline.com (Jim Frost) writes:
>
>>WRT the Japanese vs American argument, I don't consider it relevant
>>anymore.  I pointedly avoided looking at American-built cars and
>>kicked myself later for not looking at the Saturns.  It's become
>>obvious that American cars *can* compete effectively with the
>>Japanese, it just took the big three a long time to decide to do it.
>
>
> One thing that gets me is, if American car companies can build
>cars of comperable quality to imports(and I prefer European to
>Japanese and Japanese to American) why does Saturn have to make
>such a big deal about being an American car company that is building
>cars that are on par with the Japanese quality wise?
>
> For me, what it boils down to is, if I'm paying for a car I'm going to
>buy the best car for my money. I don't give a damn where it's built as 
>long as it's built well. And right now, it seems to me that while the
>quality of American cars is improving it's got miles to go. 
>  -Alex Rosser
>   lxrosser@cco.caltech.edu
>


I agree with Alex  100 %.
The only thing I would like to add is the price of the car.
Japanese cars are overpriced.
Sometimes it makes more scence to buy an American car for less money than Japanese car,
getting more value  per $.
But at the same time I had nothing but problems with my brand new Olds. Toronado..
I had to get rid of it after I reached 80.000 mi.
Now, I have a Honda, which has no appeal and luxury of Toronado, neither its power,
but IT IS SUPER RELIABLE & ROBUST AFTER 2.5 YEARS & 103,000 MI.
What else do I need ?
I would like to see GM begging me to change my heart & to become more patrotic.
(They might succeed if the price is right.. and the quality is at least 50% of Honda's.).

Henry.
Newsgroups: rec.autos
From: rjwade@rainbow.ecn.purdue.edu (Robert J. Wade)
Subject: Re: Fast Japanese Sports Cars
Organization: Purdue University Engineering Computer Network
Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1992 20:57:27 GMT

In article <74435@apple.apple.COM> chmilar@Apple.COM (Michael Chmilar) writes:
>In a nutshell:
>
>3000 VR-4:  Ugly, ugly, and ugly.  Did I forget to mention:  it is U-G-L-Y?
>            It gets my vote for grossest car of the '90's.  Whoever did the
>            styling on this thing should be killed.
-----disagree...i think styling is cool.
>
>RX-7:       Brutal.  Some of the light weight is acheived by flimsy
>            construction.  Check out:  Entire interior, door latches, inside
>            of the wheel wells.  This is a $34,000 car?  If you drive on
>            rough roads, make sure your health insurance covers rehabilitating
>            bruised kidneys.  Looks nice and aggressive, but the R1 has
>            that cheesy, ugly spoiler.  With the combo of stiff suspension
>            and flimsy construction, it may well shake itself to pieces in
>            a few years.  These cars are not selling well, so you can
>            probably name your price for one.
-----agree...my 10 mile test drive easily convinced me that i would not want
             this car.  don't care for the styling either.
>
>300ZX:      Refined.  Elegant.  Best styling job that Japanese designers
>            have ever done.  Also, goes like stink, and handles well.  Best
>            interior too.  Control placement is nearly perfect, and quality
>            is high.
-----agree...cool looks, great mechanicals!


Newsgroups: rec.autos,misc.consumers,misc.kids,talk.politics.medicine,sci.med
From: tedebear@leland.Stanford.EDU (Theodore Chen)
Subject: Re: Seat Belts Releasing in Crashes: Institute for Injury Reduction
Organization: DSG, Stanford University, CA 94305, USA
Date: Fri, 20 Nov 92 09:12:45 GMT

In article <1992Nov20.002400.23792@netcom.com> feustel@netcom.com (David Feustel) writes:
>Simple solution to the seatbelt problem: buy foreign. Having walked
>away from a headon collision at 45 mph with a John Deere tractor, I
>can guarantee you that Nissan seatbelts work very well.

maybe.  the 300ZX turbo i drove tonight had door mounted belts.
big minus.
-teddy
Xref: sparky rec.autos:26908 rec.autos.tech:15489
From: mshar@mentor.cc.purdue.edu (Mike Mshar)
Newsgroups: rec.autos,rec.autos.tech
Subject: Re: How do you set timing for optimum performance?
Date: 16 Nov 92 16:30:22 GMT
Article-I.D.: mentor.BxtHun.LtM
Distribution: na
Organization: Purdue University Computing Center

> rossi@gvlf9-q.gvl.unisys.com (Pete Rossi) writes:

>With all this talk about recent changes in the gas, how could one go
>about finding the optimum timing setting with this new gas?  For that
>matter, the best timing setting in general.
>
>**NOTE** I am talking about older cars that don't have computers, etc,
>that dynamically set the timing.
>
>I would think that under certain conditions the 'spec' setting may not be
>the *best* setting.
>
>Is there a way to determine a *best* setting other than by trial and
>error?  I would guess that you would have to start at the spec setting
>and just keep advancing it 1 or 2 degrees at a time until it starts to
>ping then back off.  Seems to me that this could take a bit of time to
>get it just right.  Any other methods?

Bingo, you just said it. If emmissions are not that important to you, than
this is the best way to achieve optimum performance with a specific
gasoline. 


The reason emmissions years' cars have the timing set so retarded is
because they are supposed to run on the worst gas, and because retarded
timing promotes better emmissions quality. So, if you don't like the lower
performance, change it.

I advanced the timing on my Monte from a stock setting of 6 degrees before
TDC to about 12 degrees before TDC. The performance difference is very
noticable, so if you want to try it, go for it!

BTW GM cars with computer controlled distributors (computer HEI) can have
their timing advanced. The only problem is that if spark knock occurs
because of over-advancing, the computer will automatically retard the
timing very far to prevent the ping. So, you basically have to advance the
timing as far as you can without making the knock-sensor go off because of
over-advance. Read the under-hood sticker to see how to set base timing
with computer HEI units. 

Mike
-- 
|       Michael G. Mshar        | My Life-Long Goal: To keep common sense    |
|   mmshar@mn.ecn.purdue.edu    | alive and keep the idiots from taking over.|
|  mshar@mentor.cc.purdue.edu   |     \\President, Nice Guys Anonymous//     |
|____>>> United States Steel, Mechanical Engineer, Technical Services <<<____|
Newsgroups: rec.autos
From: alter@rchland.vnet.ibm.com (Eric Alter)
Subject: Re: Experiences with Pickups
Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1992 17:05:10 GMT
Distribution: usa
Reply-To: alter@rchland.vnet.ibm.com
Disclaimer: This posting represents the poster's views, not necessarily those of IBM
Organization: IBM Rochester Mn

To add my $0.02...

At my dad's company, they have used both the GMC (heavy-1/2 tons)
and Ford trucks (F-250 was the last I saw).  He says that the Fords tend
to have more problems with wheels and such than the GMC's.  More repairs
are done to the Ford's.  don't know too much about engine problems and
such.

I tend to side that the GMC's are "better".  I know how the delivery folks
at this place drive.  They drive hard.  They drive these trucks into the
ground until they die.  I have one of my dad's trucks from his salesjob
(puts on about 80k miles before the company get the truck.  this takes
about around 2 years).  Sure, it has its problems (frozed EGR pump, broken
A.I.R. tubes, I replaced the tranny (old one had ~210,000 miles on it) after
it froze.  I think it was going years before I had the truck.)
but based on how I know they treat their vehicles (very poorly), there must
be some value in what he says if they beat the trucks to death.

btw, I personally like the Toyota trucks (styling) but don't like lack of
power, poor gas mileage (for a small truck), and high price (high for
what I'd want :-) ).
-- 

Eric Alter		alter@rchland.vnet.ibm.com
IBM Corporation		Rochester, Mn
From: jtchew@csa3.lbl.gov (Ad absurdum per aspera)
Newsgroups: rec.autos
Subject: Re: Ford kicked my ass in court
Date: 20 Nov 1992 15:41 PST
Organization: Lawrence Berkeley Laboratory - Berkeley, CA, USA
Distribution: world
NNTP-Posting-Host: 128.3.254.198
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41    

In article <1ejgh8INN1l5@armory.centerline.com>, jimf@centerline.com 
(Jim Frost) writes...

>This is only partially true.  If you find the name and address of
>several real live people in responsible positions -- particularly if
>one or more is the boss of the others -- and you send copies of the
>letter to all of them (indicating names in a Cc: at the bottom)...
>particularly if you hit people at several different levels...

Speaking as a professional writer and as a minor bureaucrat in a large
organization (though hopefully an organization that is on the side of
the angels :), I heartily endorse this advice.  As Jim points out, the
recipient doesn't dare "lose" or ignore a letter that someone, especially
his or her boss, might inquire about later on.  Send it to multiple,
specific people and you've got a fighting chance that it will become 
the "action item" of someone important enough to be useful.

The only potential pitfall is that if you *do* have a useful working
relationship with someone and want to consolidate it, you might not
help your cause by telling his bos and his boss's boss what a lousy
deal you're getting.  But this does not usually apply to the wronged
consumer sallying forth against a corporate stone wall.

Good luck,
--Joe
"Just another personal opinion from the People's Republic of Berkeley"