From: faruk@bcars6f5.BNR.CA (Faruk od Bosne)
Subject: Re: little lies...
Reply-To: faruk@bnr.ca
Organization: Bell Northern Research, Ottawa, Canada
Date: Tue, 15 Dec 92 05:16:34 GMT

part 1

>In article <Dec.10.04.10.16.1992.366@andromeda.rutgers.edu>
>>faruk@bcars6f5.BNR.CA (Faruk od Bosne) writes:
>|>In article <Dec.9.02.23.13.1992.18706@andromeda.rutgers.edu>,
>|>pshane@andromeda.rutgers.edu (Ana M. Shane) writes:
>|> faruk@bcars6f5.BNR.CA (Faruk od Bosne) writes:
>|> 
>|> >If the people of Sandzak and Kosovo do not want to live within Serbia,
>|> >why are the serbs forcing them to do so? That is my basic question.
>There is
>|> >a Jewish proverb: good fence makes good neighbors. It is very true.
>|> 
>|> Well, then, why not the same standard for the Serbs? If the Serbs in
Croatia
>|> and Bosnia and herzegovina do not want to live within these republics, why
>|> should they be forced?
>|> 
>|> See, the arguments in this war, the one based on national rights cancel 
    ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>|> each other!! And Kosovo is the reversed issue: if you apply arguments
    ^^^^^^^^^^^^
>|> that defend borders of Croatia and BiH, then you also have to defend
>|> the borders of Serbia (which have always included Kosovo, even when it was
>|> an autonomous province, it was a province in Serbia). If you say that
>Serbia 
>|> should give Kosovo to Albanians, then why not the Croatian and the Bosnian
>|> Krajinas to Serbs?

> 
>This was my point: 

And point is a point is a point ... 

>the arguments based on national rights cancel each other
>and only add to fear hatred and continuation of the war!!!

... and your arguments stink. 
Good fence makes good neighbors.

>You proceed to prove who has greater national rights:

Not at all. You lost me altogether. I said, as well as all others,
that all nations have their rights. And my positions is that all nations
have equal rights to exist in freedom and dignity. And I was trying to 
give you some facts, with the aim of learning. 

>>Well mme, let's go one think at a time.

>>First I have never said that serbs in "Krajina" should not get the right for 
>>independence. However, at least in Bosnia, they have no "clean"
territory. In 
>>some parts of Bosnia serbs are simple majority, however 10 km down the road 
>>they are minority. (In this respect I would rather call "Krtajina" a region,
>>like  Sumadija or Slavonija, etc.)  President Izetbegovic used to say that 
>>Bosnia is like a leopard fur pattern. It is impossible to draw ethnic lines
>>unless they go through the bedrooms. Kosovo for comparison is not. That's 
>>why serbs in Bosnia resorted to the ethnic cleansing. 

I am talking here about integrity of Bosnia, and separability of Kosovo
from Serbia. 

>But that holds also for Kosovo. Even though it is more homogenuous,
>(90% Albanian) Serbian claims based on history and national rights are
>even stronger there, maybe, than in Bosnia and Herzegovina. Yet, they are
>not just if they hurt the people who live there. 

... and you through me into the history. Toward the end you will abandon
historic arguments.

>As you say:

>>Second is the human rights. Nobody ever drudged serbs in Bosnia. That's why
>>a lot of Bosnian serbs want to live together (listen to bravery award 
>>journalist newswoman from Bosnia Mrs. Dubravka Knezevic, serb). Contrary, 
>>Albanians in Kosovo suffer the most brutal oppression ever known. 10% of
>>serbian population do not allow 90% Albanians to use their language, to have
>>any infrastructure like schools, hospitals, newspapers, TV, but anything.

I am talking here about human rights ...

>This, BTW is not quite true, and there is a longer and complicated history
>of what was going on in Kosovo during past 50 years. That is why the
>problem with Kosovo is even more complicated than the problem with
>Bosnia and Herzegovina. And it is preciselly complicated BECAUSE of the
>nationalism on both sides and because the history of oppression in
>Kosovo runs two ways - That is why any hope for peace there and anywhere
>else must not be based on national rights but on human rights!!!

... you brought me into history. BTW, what is that is not quite true?
You want more: indiscriminate killing by serbian police of demonstrators,
youngsters on the market, 0.5 milion Albanians interrogated in serbian 
prisons. There is not enough space to tell you everything.

>>In addition to that serbs are building the largest serbian church in the
>>heart of Pristina (Kosovo capital). Will the serbs 500 years from now again
>>claim that Pristina is the cradle of serbian nation because of this church.
>>Reversing the direction, shall we now believe serbs when they say same
on the 
>>basis of Pecka patrijarsija. Or maybe Pecka patrijarsia was built with the
>>same intentions as the current church in Pristina. Kosovo is an ubiquitous
>>example of serbian justice toward the non-serbs. 

  With hopes for peace upon you.

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>Ana M. Shane                              voice: (215)-843-2909
>334 Winona St.
>Philadelphia, PA 19144      e-mail: pshane@andromeda.rutgers.edu

Faruk.


Xref: sparky soc.culture.bosna-herzgvna:836 soc.culture.croatia:85 soc.culture.turkish:13180