HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: 01sybok@ac.dal.ca
Newsgroups: soc.college
Subject: Re: Re^2: Frats
Date: 6 Nov 92 08:01:34 -0400
Organization: Dalhousie University, Halifax, Nova Scotia, Canada

In article <4210@novavax.UUCP>, vest@novavax.UUCP (Steven Vest) writes:
> jagreath@eos.ncsu.edu (JOSEPH ALAN GREATHOUSE) writes:
> 
>>I think the entire problem here, Ted, is that you don't understand the *depth*
>>of the commitment a man feels for his Fraternity.  I know you had problems with
>>unrecognized Fraternities at Brandeis.  But you don't know the inside working
>>of a Fraternity.  You haven't been exposed to the idealism and beauty of a 
>>Fraternity's Ritual.  And you take your experiences at Brandeis and try to apply
> 
> My God.  The last time I heard someone use phrases such as this they were
> either trying to sell me a poppy or get me to put down the shotgun and let
> them in off the porch so that they could go over the latest issue of 
> The Watchtower with me.  You know there is this group of guys in Philadelphia
> who will try to deprogram you for a price.
> 

Actually I agree with the first poster. There is a lot of beauty in a 
fraternity ritual. I realize that when fraternity members try and explain
the commitment they feel to their fraternities they end up sounding like 
fanatics, but what they say is true (and yes, I am a proud fraternity member).

Joseph is correct about Ted, too. He has a history of trashing fraternities
and backing up his claims with evidence that simply does not make the grade.
I concluded long ago that either Ted made up his mind that he didn't like 
fraternities and then founf evidence to back up his claim, or he simply does
not understand experimental design. In any case, there are two exptremes in 
the fraternity/non fraternity view, and Ted is just the Frat-Nazi side of 
things. 


Mike
From: alasnik@casbah.acns.nwu.edu (Adam Lasnik)
Newsgroups: soc.college
Subject: A very sad a capella person :-(
Date: 9 Nov 92 20:02:06 GMT
Organization: Northwestern University, Evanston, Illinois, USA


Hello, folks...

I was surprised and thrilled at how many of you kind souls were thoughtful
enough to drop me a note about a capella music at your college.  I had a
chance to write many of you back and thank you... but then, some real jerk on
our system mailbombed someone else, and managed to kill off all my mail (and
the mail of many other people as well) as a side-effect :-(

I'm not even gonna ask you folks to write again (unless you had managed to
save your note to me, by wild chance).  Rather, I'd just like to apologize to
those of you that I didn't have a chance to reply to.  Though I obviously no
longer have the specific info you sent me, I still have many of the school and
group names in the back of my head, and will put them to good use :-)

Thanks again for your original helpfulness!

--ADAM "KEYS" LASNIK

P.S. -- In addition to mail problems, our system mail feed has been kinda
buggy recently... this is the earliest I've been able to post.  I actually
only lost mail sent to me up until Nov 4th.
From: schumacher-jeffrey@cs.yale.edu (Jeffrey Schumacher)
Newsgroups: soc.college
Subject: University of Wisconsin-Platteville
Date: 7 Nov 1992 20:50:03 -0500
Organization: Yale University Computer Science Dept., New Haven, CT 06520-2158
Distribution: usa
NNTP-Posting-Host: cardinal.zoo.cs.yale.edu

Does anyone know the e-mail address format for undergraduates at the
University of Wisconsin at Platteville?

        ///       Jeffrey P. Schumacher        \\    //
       ///                                      \\  //
AMIGA ///     Yale University, Class of 1996     \\//
\\\  ///                                        9 || 6
 \\\///        schjefp@yalevm.ycc.yale.edu        ||
  \XX/        xschumac@suned.zoo.cs.yale.edu      ||
From: 01sybok@ac.dal.ca
Newsgroups: soc.college
Subject: Re: frats
Date: 6 Nov 92 08:47:47 -0400
Organization: Dalhousie University, Halifax, Nova Scotia, Canada

In article <1992Nov3.042313.29333@midway.uchicago.edu>, thf2@ellis.uchicago.edu (Ted "not a Terry" Frank) writes:
> In article <1992Nov1.164012.8706@cc.umontreal.ca> cholette@JSP.UMontreal.CA (Cholette Martin) writes:
>>In article <1992Oct31.054400.10769@midway.uchicago.edu> thf2@midway.uchicago.edu writes:

> Truth by blatant assertion?  I'm sorry, a bland dismissal by a fraternity
> member of articles published in over a dozen peer-reviewed journals and
> in every major newspaper in the country hardly counts for much.  Surely
> there's *one* peer-reviewed article out there that supports your opinion,
> no?  Or is it a huge conspiracy by the entire academic community to close
> off that idea?  I mean, if *every*single*article* pointing out the
> dangerous aspects of the fraternity system suffered from the flaws you
> accuse them of, surely there exists one clever professor out there
> with the same analytic skills that you have who can point out these flaws
> with a flick of his wrist.
> 
> With all due respect, I reject your argument that you are a maverick
> scholar better qualified than every academic out there to judge the
> nature of fraternities.

So what you're saying is that not one scholar will argue the other side and 
then when one does you try to discredit him. Well, I give you a 4 for effort.


> You assume wrong.  But I'm impressed by your ability to make judgments
> about studies and literature you haven't read or seen. 

True, Ted. It's almost as good as yours. I recall a certain paper you cited
about fraternities and rape that (as it turned out) had nothing to do with
either fraternities or rape.

Mike
Newsgroups: soc.college
From: thf2@ellis.uchicago.edu (Mmmm... Purple)
Subject: Re: frats
Reply-To: thf2@midway.uchicago.edu
Organization: University of Chicago Computing Organizations
Date: Fri, 6 Nov 1992 15:41:30 GMT

In article <1992Nov6.084747.8663@ac.dal.ca> 01sybok@ac.dal.ca writes:
>In article <1992Nov3.042313.29333@midway.uchicago.edu>, thf2@ellis.uchicago.edu (Ted "not a Terry" Frank) writes:
>> Truth by blatant assertion?  I'm sorry, a bland dismissal by a fraternity
>> member of articles published in over a dozen peer-reviewed journals and
>> in every major newspaper in the country hardly counts for much.  Surely
>> there's *one* peer-reviewed article out there that supports your opinion,
>> no?  Or is it a huge conspiracy by the entire academic community to close
>> off that idea?  I mean, if *every*single*article* pointing out the
>> dangerous aspects of the fraternity system suffered from the flaws you
>> accuse them of, surely there exists one clever professor out there
>> with the same analytic skills that you have who can point out these flaws
>> with a flick of his wrist.
>> 
>> With all due respect, I reject your argument that you are a maverick
>> scholar better qualified than every academic out there to judge the
>> nature of fraternities.
>
>So what you're saying is that not one scholar will argue the other side and 
>then when one does you try to discredit him. Well, I give you a 4 for effort.

Mike, which scholar was that?  I'm looking for the publication?  Where is it?
Please, tell me, I'd love to read it.  What I'm saying is that not one
scholar will argue the other side.  Period.   
-- 
ted frank                     | thf2@ellis.uchicago.edu 
also at quibeaux@uchicago.edu | standard disclaimers | void where prohibited
the university of chicago law school, chicago, illinois 60637
From: matthews@lynx.dac.northeastern.edu (Matt Sullivan)
Newsgroups: soc.college
Subject: Re: attendance policy
Date: 6 Nov 92 22:04:53 GMT
Organization: Northeastern University, Boston, MA. 02115, USA

In article <1def56INNn6t@master.cs.rose-hulman.edu> erwinaw@NeXTwork.Rose-Hulman.Edu (Anthony W Erwin) writes:
>In article <92309.162902IO00052@MAINE.MAINE.EDU> <IO00052@MAINE.MAINE.EDU>  
>writes:
>> This post is a survey of college/universities to check on your school's
>> policy of attendence.  The information collected will be used in a report

[...]

>> 
>>                                         Thanks in advance,
>>                                             Rick
>
>	If it's that hard for you to go to class, then maybe you should find a  
>factory job.  By the way, exactly how many classes do you think that a person  
>should be allowed to miss? 
>	 I don't see any real reason to miss class unless there is a serious  
>conflict such as illness.  You now that you're paying for that class don't you?   
>If you don't go, you don't learn as much.  I've known guys with really bad  
>grades that are amazed when they stop cutting class and their grades go up.
>
>				Sincerely,
>				Tony Erwin
>PEROT '96!
>
>erwinaw@nextwork.rose-hulman.edu

I really don't think that he wanted your opinion of skipped classes,
just what your POLICY is at your school.



Matthew Sullivan     Northeastern U.  |
                                      |  Some of it's magic, and some of
MatthewS@Lynx.CRC.Northeastern.Edu    |  it's tragic, but I had a good
MWS@Maine.Maine.Edu                   |  life all the way.
                                      |                 --Jimmy Buffett
------------------------------------------------------------------------
                        Go U.Maine Black Bear Hockey!
From: an725@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Paul L. Fortman, Jr.)
Newsgroups: soc.college
Subject: Re: University of Florida at Gainesville:  email address
Date: 7 Nov 1992 21:27:48 GMT
Organization: Case Western Reserve University, Cleveland, OH (USA)
Reply-To: an725@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Paul L. Fortman, Jr.)
NNTP-Posting-Host: hela.ins.cwru.edu


In a previous article, 50monk@cua.edu () says:

>PLEASE HELP ME!!!!!!!!!I need the UF at Gainesville e-mail address.  Send it
>to:  in%"50monk@cua.edu"

I would like the e-mail address for U of Florida in Gainesville too.

-- 
fortmapl@dayton.bitnet
fortmapl@udavxb.oca.udayton.edu
Newsgroups: soc.college
From: fulton@silver.ucs.indiana.edu (Ben Fulton)
Subject: Re: This "Frat" discussion...
Organization: Indiana University
Date: Mon, 9 Nov 1992 16:56:01 GMT

In <1992Nov6.191622.8680@ac.dal.ca> 01sybok@ac.dal.ca writes:

>That is of course your privilidge. I however am not wild about calling 
>a Ms. Magazine article hard scientific evidence. Call me kooky...

I didn't look at that one.  However, there were also references from
a Campus Violence conference, Sociological Inquiry, Sociological Quarterly,
Sociology and Social Research, Medical Aspects of Human Sexuality,
and several books on the subject.

-- 
ben
fulton@silver.ucs.indiana.edu
Violence is the last refuge of the incompetent.
Government is sanctioned violence.
From: judson@watserv.ucr.edu (Michael Judson)
Newsgroups: soc.college
Subject: Marin Academy
Date: 11 Nov 92 04:55:59 GMT
Article-I.D.: galaxy.23836

I was just wondering if anybody knew anyone who, like me, went to Marin
Academy, a small private high school in Marin County, California.
I was just curious as to how many people read the news on internet and if
anyone of those people may have gone to, or know someone who went to, Marin
Academy.

--

judson@watserv.ucr.edu
From: 01sybok@ac.dal.ca
Newsgroups: soc.college
Subject: Re: frats
Date: 6 Nov 92 08:39:53 -0400
Organization: Dalhousie University, Halifax, Nova Scotia, Canada

In article <1992Oct31.054400.10769@midway.uchicago.edu>, thf2@ellis.uchicago.edu (Ted "not a Terry" Frank) writes:
> In article <1992Oct31.041544.11949@cc.umontreal.ca> cholette@JSP.UMontreal.CA (Cholette Martin) writes:
>>Ted, If you have problems with certain organizations than complain about
>>them.  
> 
>>Ted, you should make an excellent lawer, you talk in circles quite well!
> 
> I fail to see where I've talked in circles.  If I make a good lawyer, it's
> because I do my research.  


Hmm... I remember that piece of research. You do reasearch, alright, just
not very well, as I recall.
 
But it's irrelevant -- the debate isn't about
> me, it's about the system.  So, let's leave out the ad hominems, shall we?
> -- 

Let's not, since you seem to love lobbing them in other newsgroups.

Mike
Newsgroups: soc.college
From: thf2@ellis.uchicago.edu (Mind the Gap)
Subject: Re: frat questions
Reply-To: thf2@midway.uchicago.edu
Organization: University of Chicago Computing Organizations
Date: Tue, 10 Nov 1992 05:03:22 GMT

In article <1992Nov10.030516.7903@galileo.cc.rochester.edu> DSCT@db1.cc.rochester.edu (DAVID SCOTT) writes:
>	I guess that this post may invite the wrath of ted, but his nonsense
>has continued long enough.

I'm confused as to which Ted you're talking about.  As far as I can tell,
I'm the only Ted that's posted on fraternities in the last two weeks, but
I haven't made any of the arguments you attribute to this mysterious person.
-- 
ted frank                     | thf2@ellis.uchicago.edu 
also at quibeaux@uchicago.edu | standard disclaimers | void where prohibited
the university of chicago law school, chicago, illinois 60637
From: MIKEF@brownvm.brown.edu (Mike Fessler)
Newsgroups: soc.college
Subject: Clauses of interest from our bylaws
Date: Fri, 6 Nov 1992 03:47:18 EST
Organization: Brown University - Providence, Rhode Island  USA
NNTP-Posting-Host: brownvm.brown.edu
News-Software: BNN via BNN_POST v1.0 beta

Ted, I'm a member of a co-ed fraternity at Brown University. Here's a question
for you: given the following two clauses from our bylaws (accurate in substance
if not in exact phrasing -- I don't have them in front of me, but I was on
our bylaw revision committee a couple of years ago so I remember the gist)
and the fact that our emphasis on alcohol since our founding ten years
ago has been minimal to nil, are you still prepared to condemn me because
I'm a fraternity member?

1) The Kappa Chapter of the Fraternity of Delta Psi shall not discriminate,
either in the selection of its members or in participation in its activites,
on the basis of sex, race, religion, handicap, national origin, or sexual
orientation.

2) The Kappa Chapter of the Fraternity of Delta Psi shall not engage in
any physical or psychological mistreatment of its pledges or members, including
but not limited to "hazing" as defined by Brown University policy and Rhode
Island law.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
Michael Fessler                                   mikef@brownvm.brown.edu
   To light a candle is to cast a shadow.  -- Ursula K. LeGuin
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: v115maec@ubvmsb.cc.buffalo.edu (Michael L. Kohan)
Newsgroups: soc.college
Subject: Re: False fire alarms: Are they a problem for you?
Date: 11 Nov 92 00:45:00 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: University at Buffalo
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41

In article <1992Nov10.182833.13541@mnemosyne.cs.du.edu>, bdennen@nyx.cs.du.edu (Bill Dennen) writes...
> 
> 
>After being woken up in the middle of the night for the third time in the
>past five days, a thought occurred. Are fire alarms a problem all over the
>place? (false alarms specifically)
> 
>What solutions do other schools have for this problem? 
> 
>Here at Stony Brook, there appears to be no solution. My dorm is a 24-hour
>locked dorm, so key access is supposedly required to enter. We'd assume
>that people who pull these alarms do not live in the building. Of course
>that assumption may be false. Anyway, the RAs have not caught this person
>(persons) and everyone on the hall is pissed.
> 
>Any other similar experiences?
> 
>Bill

I'm at U at Buffalo, where on the Amherst campus we have two residential areas:
The Ellicott complex and the Governor's Residences. Most of Ellicott has had
extensive problems with false alarms, due to the fact that since it's all one 
interconnected mess of buildings, when one quad is evacuated two quads to
either side are evacuated with it. My friends at Ellicott tell me that there
are drills in their building at least twice a week.
I live at Governors, where I am happy to report not a single fire alarm all
year so far (knocks on wood), probably due to the fact that Governors is
inhabited by lots of Grad students and honors program-types. The rest are
freshmen, mostly. We also have a closed dorm, where we have swipe cards in order
to get in after 8pm. Perhaps this has helped to prevent people coming in to 
pull our alarms. Ellicott doesn't, but then I'll bet most of Elli's alarms are
pulled by it's residents.
-Mike
(BuffaloChip)
From: judson@watserv.ucr.edu (Michael Judson)
Newsgroups: soc.college
Subject: Columbia/Barnard E-mail address wanted
Date: 11 Nov 92 04:00:13 GMT
Article-I.D.: galaxy.23833

The subject says it all.  Could you E-mail me if you know it?
Thanks.

--

judson@watserv.ucr.edu
Newsgroups: soc.college
From: thf2@ellis.uchicago.edu (Mmmm... Purple)
Subject: Re: frats
Reply-To: thf2@midway.uchicago.edu
Organization: University of Chicago Computing Organizations
Date: Sun, 8 Nov 1992 03:23:22 GMT

In article <1992Nov6.170040.14603@cc.umontreal.ca> cholette@JSP.UMontreal.CA (Cholette Martin) writes:
>In article <1992Nov6.154130.8640@midway.uchicago.edu> thf2@midway.uchicago.edu writes:
>>Mike, which scholar was that?  I'm looking for the publication?  Where is it?
>>Please, tell me, I'd love to read it.  What I'm saying is that not one
>>scholar will argue the other side.  Period.   
>
>why not check out some of the works of Dr. William Muse.  

Because my library doesn't have any of his books.  Do you have more
information?  Cites to articles he's written? 
-- 
ted frank                     | thf2@ellis.uchicago.edu 
also at quibeaux@uchicago.edu | standard disclaimers | void where prohibited
the university of chicago law school, chicago, illinois 60637
From: aelman@Xenon.Stanford.EDU (Adam Elman)
Newsgroups: soc.college
Subject: Re: Frats
Date: 5 Nov 92 07:01:56 GMT
Organization: CS Department, Stanford University, California, USA

Erik Warren Selberg <es2q+@andrew.cmu.edu> writes:

>The basic reason I don't want women in my fraternity is I don't see
>my house (or the Greek system, or for that matter 90% of college
>students) as being mature enough to deal with close relationships very
>well. I doubt very much if these are the same reasons for excluding
>blacks / Jews / pre-Law people, etc. However, I do see these reasons
>as being used for justification for some fraternities to exclude gays
>/ lesbians [incidentally, my house doesn't (we did pledge at least one
>gay member), but I don't know what kind of reaction we would have if a
>brother started dating a brother].

>Erik

That's exactly the problem.  The fact that people are not "mature
enough to deal with close relationships very well" is precisely what I
see as the problem in having single-sex groups.  Let's face it -- a
single-sex organization hinders this type of maturity from developing.
Trying to eliminate this psychological problem by associating only
with your own gender is like slapping a band-aid on a bullet wound.
Fraternities promote the mentality which considers women basically as
either little sisters or potential girlfriends, which is exactly the
problem you state above.

If women were allowed to join your fraternity, I can imagine that
there would be problems like that at the beginning.  But in the long
run, it would be accepted.  The Stanford Band was once a male-only
organization; now I can't imagine it as anything but coed.  Sure, we
don't have as strong traditions or as strong a feeling of
"brotherhood" as a fraternity, but I can't imagine that a fraternity
couldn't deal with that sort of thing the same way.

Adam Elman
aelman@cs.stanford.edu
From: jmartin@eniac.seas.upenn.edu (Jason J Martin)
Newsgroups: soc.college
Subject: Does anyone know if there is......
Date: 9 Nov 92 05:00:47 GMT
Organization: University of Pennsylvania


I am looking for a BBS in the area of Altoona, PA.  It needs to have acess to the internet, and if the sysop charges, it's gotta be a feasable charge.  I'm not too worried about files, or multiple lines, but there always nice.


thanx in advance........

Please e-mail responses to:
   jmartin@eniac.seas.upenn.edu




thanx again.....
Newsgroups: soc.college
From: mharper@next08cville.wam.umd.edu (Michele Lynn Harper)
Subject: Vegetarians??
Organization: Workstations at Maryland, University of Maryland, College Park
Distribution: usa
Date: Fri, 6 Nov 1992 05:07:36 GMT

I am currently trying to improve the quality of vegetarian meals at my  
university. If your school has a good vegertarian meal plan, I would  
appreciate any information about your school and its plan. Also why you  
would think such a plan is important.
				Thanks,
					Michele 
					mharper@wam.umd.edu
From: v115maec@ubvmsb.cc.buffalo.edu (Michael L. Kohan)
Newsgroups: soc.college
Subject: Dimes for Mike
Date: 13 Nov 92 08:00:00 GMT
Organization: University at Buffalo
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41

I read once about a kid years ago who paid his tuition by asking for a penny
from people, and got enough to pay his way thru college. Well, recession being
what it is, I'd like to try with dimes. Anyone with a dime to spare, please
help a poor guy pay his way through UB. I have a job, but It's not enough.
If you'd like to help, please send one dime to:

Michael Kohan
310B Lehman Hall
University at Buffalo
Buffalo, NY 14261-3310  USA

Thanks alot... Around February I'll post how much I have.
Pass around my address!
-Mike
(BuffaloChip)
Newsgroups: soc.college
From: ckincy@mcs213f.cs.umr.edu (Charles Kincy)
Subject: Re: Frats
Date: Mon, 9 Nov 1992 01:19:55 GMT
Organization: University of Missouri - Rolla

In article <seyWO1W00iV3M9kYpi@andrew.cmu.edu> ac4x+@andrew.cmu.edu (Ariye M. Cohen) writes:
>
>On 05-Nov-92 in Re: Frats                    
>user J.H. Huebner@ultb.isc.ri writes:
>>organizations. Also I would argue that the most powerfull and in my
>>opinion healthiest Fraternity on campus is APhiO the National _CO-ED_
>>sevice fraternity.
>
>First, the greek system has a higher GPA than the rest of campus (2.87
>vs 2.4). Also 70% of all orientation counselors are greek (shows their

This is highly campus-dependent.  Here, the non-Greeks smash the Greeks
in GPA.  Furthermore, it is a good argument that Greek GPAs are dis-
torted because pledges are required to keep large amounts of study 
hours, while actives have no such requirements.  And pledges get fac-
tored in with the rest of the actives for GPA determination.

[Although, I will grant, that more Greeks graduate than non-Greeks,
proportionally.]

>activity on campus and leadership positions). With over 30% of CMU
>student's in the Greek system it is obvious that they play an important
>part as the backbone of the campus community. Also it is the greek

This hardly means that they are desirable and beneficial to the campus.
A circular argument, to be sure.

>system which is the most charitable section of the community (through
>fundraisers, activities, etc.). 

Can you say "corporate sponsors salting the tip-jar."  I knew you 
could.  Most non-Greek students have to scrape and do without just
to be there.  There is no extra money for things such as charity.
True charity begins at home; why don't I see Greek fundraisers helping
needy students?  [well, ok...forget that last question.]

>No one is pressured if they are not affiliated with a particular house
>or no house at all...however a majority of the leaders (or at least the
>visible leaders) are members of the fraternities. I have noticed this in
>my first few months here.

This could be that the only effective way to network among students
is to be Greek, ne c'est pas?  Like I said, another circular argument.

>The Greek system as a whole...if run the way it was supposed to...works.
>CMU's IFC just adopted a new constitution that makes it necessary for
>houses with chronic problems to shape up and ship out. 

I'm not arguing that it doesn't work.  In fact, that it *does* work
is what bothers me.  It works to keep the rich, elitist people in
power, and the poor NT types out.  The fact that most
politicians were once Greek affirms this, in my mind.

Service fraternities, however, such as APO, are beneficial, because
their main drive is *service*, not "brotherhood" or fun.  And 
professional societies, such as Tau Beta Pi, are extremely useful at best,
and harmless at worst.  These are not really part of the "Greek system,"
however, because these organizations hold no real power.

cpk