From: Nick_Janow@mindlink.bc.ca (Nick Janow)
Newsgroups: sci.energy
Subject: Re: ZERO Nuclear impact (was: Is car pooling for real? etc)
Date: 27 Jul 92 07:49:36 GMT
Organization: MIND LINK! - British Columbia, Canada
Distribution: world

rwallace@unix1.tcd.ie (russell wallace) writes:

> That doesn't prove that they are not intelligent.  They could have reasons
> for letting men kill them; reasons that they understand but we don't.  Look
> at all the absurd things humans do in the name of religion.  Aliens judging
> humans by a few religious fanatics might decide that humans aren't
> intelligent.  :)

By that argument, you could suggest that chairs are intelligent, but for
reasons we do not understand choose not to reveal that intelligence, and
instead let humans sit on them and push them around.

Actually, I made no mention of proving that whales _are_ intelligent; I simply
pointed out that your argument did not prove that whales were not intelligent.
Likewise, a chair's lack of apparent intelligent response is not sufficient
proof that it is not intelligent, though it certainly doesn't support a theory
that it is intelligent.  :)

> I would suggest that there is absolutely no reason to believe whales are
> intelligent, ...

There is reason to believe that they might be.  They have large, complex
brains, communicate via complex sounds (though we don't know how much
information is actually exchanged), and engage in activities that could be
signs of intelligence.  However, there is nothing yet that I know of that
convinces me that they are intelligent at a level that makes them more than
simply an animal.  There is also nothing that convinces me to the contrary.

> ...and that furthermore they definitely do not do certain things that can
> reasonably be regarded as showing intelligence, such as using it to preserve
> their lives (when humans evolved intelligence, this was the *first* thing we
> use it for), and that therefore it is reasonable to conclude that whales are
> not intelligent, unless and until we find some evidence that they are.

That only proves that they don't possess both human intelligence _and_ human
thought patterns (motivations, philosophies, etc).  It is not sufficient proof
that they are not intelligent.  I don't believe that human motivations are the
only ones intelligent beings can possess.

Imagine that whales have intelligence at our level, and they all share a common
religion.  This religion states that life is a temporary phase on the way to
something better, and that dying is nothing to be concerned about.  That
religion might also state (through an interpretation of the "Dead Sea Song")
that revealing to any non-whale beings that whales are intelligent is a
terrible sin which would send that whale to eternal agony.

There: an explanation for whales' apparent lack of intelligent activity or
concern for death.  Mass beachings could be a religious ceremony equivalent to
sacrificing a goat to bring the sun back, or bowing to Mecca at noon.  It is no
more ludicrous than most human religions.  Perhaps whale's form of intelligence
makes belief in religion far stronger than humanities (ie. whales have less
doubt), and thus no whales sneak off to talk to media reporters.  :)

--

Nick_Janow@mindlink.bc.ca
Newsgroups: sci.energy