From: mdoob@ccu.umanitoba.ca
Newsgroups: soc.culture.netherlands
Subject: Re: Job (baan)
Date: 18 Aug 92 17:04:36 GMT
Organization: University of Manitoba, Winnipeg, Canada

Well, lucky me. As an outsider I can make a few comments without being
accused of chauvinism.

>If you mean that the Dutch government doesn't allow people in from abroad,
>you are right. The Dutch government tries to keep out people that come here
>to better themselves, without any benefit to our country. This discriminates
>against poor people, regardless of origin. Last time I looked, most
>of them are white (east european nationals). If you come here with
>money, you have a much better chance of being admitted. And if you're white,
>you have a much better chance of living in a richer country and/or
>have money yourself.

Normally the immigration policy of any country it designed to benefit
that country. It is certainly true here in Canada, in the U.S., and any
country in which I have spent significant time. Consider the lottery
that is now going on for Green cards in the U.S. Is there any country
that has as its purpose of its immigration policy to better the poor of
the world? 

>The Dutch tend to think of themselves as a tolerant society, without
>any basis in fact. Being a very white country until recently, there's
>no history of (white against colored) racism as there is in the US.
>The influx of foreign nationals during the last thirty years made
>racism raise its ugly head.

>The Dutch may seem toleant, but in fact we simply on't care. When it came to
>protecting the jews in WWII, Holland finished second last when it came
>to percentage saved. (Only Poland did worse). You were better of living
>in Berlin, as a jew. So, it may be pleasant to live here if you're
>different, because we don't care what color you are, but when the going gets
>tough, you'd better get the hell out of here.
>(Not that I expect that to happen, but still).

I don't think you are making a serious comment about WWII. It was
outstanding that the Danes,for example, spirited out most of their
Jewish population to Sweden. There was no such opportunity for the
Dutch. In other words, you're simply not making a valid comparison by
counting the percentage of survivors. I'm not saying that there weren't
many Dutch collaborators; it is well publicized that there were. I do
note that the standard excuses (e.g., we didn't know, the Germans made
us do it, it wasn't really our fault, it was only the Nazis) are not
part of the usual Dutch lexicon as they are in most other countries
where many Jews were killed.

>The only time we took in lots of refugees was probably centuries ago,
>when we took in lots of white, predominantly wealthy people with
>a similar religion running from Roman Catholica oppression.


I guess you are refering to the influx of Jews (a similar religion?) in
the late fifteenth century. This was remarkable at a time when they had
been thrown out of both Britain and the Spain and were barely surviving
in several other countries. A look at the history of the following 150
years (Rembrandt, Spinoza). shows a tolerance  and interaction that was
very unusual at the time. Has this pattern changed?

>Casper
>-- 
>						|	Casper H.S. Dik
>						|	casper@fwi.uva.nl

I lived for a time in Yugoslavia. It will probably not surprise anyone
that I found it a less tolerant society that that of The Netherlands.
I am not suggesting that Dutch society is heaven on earth or that I am
unaware of both racist and anitsemitic incidents that have taken place
in recent years. The election of right wing (facist?) members to the
Tweede Kamer has to be of concern. All I'm saying is that by the
standards set by most countries of the world, the Dutch are doing a
pretty good job, and should have some pride (but hopefully not
complacently) in that fact.


Michael
Newsgroups: soc.culture.netherlands