HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
(Smail3.1.28.1 #7) id m0nGNWE-0000DoC; Sun, 24 Jan 93 22: 42 PST
From: tgeer@pro-gumbo.cts.com (System Administrator)
Subject: Re: FOR SALE Apple IIgs Development Software and Books
Organization: TGraphics, Inc.
Date: Sun, 24 Jan 93 21:26:22 CST

In <1993Jan18.161757.13309@newstand.syr.edu>
kskenyon@rodan.acs.syr.EDU (Kevin S. Kenyon) writes:

> Inside the Apple IIgs by Bond
> Programming the 65816 by Eyes/Lichty (THE book to have)

If you don't sell off the package as a whole, I would like to buy the above
two books.  I already have all the others as well as all the software.
Considering that UPS COD is going to run about $9.00, I would be willing to
pay about $5.00 each.  Let me know.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------
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UUCP:    crash!pro-gumbo!tgeer    Fidonet:  tom.geer@f20.n380.z1.fidonet.org
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"I don't believe in astrology - We Scorpios aren't taken in by such things."

Newsgroups: comp.sys.apple2
From: isc10327@nusunix1.nus.sg (ONG TAT-WEE)
Subject: Re: Problems Detected with System 6
Organization: National University of Singapore
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1 PL6]
Date: Fri, 22 Jan 1993 20:21:38 GMT

Mark Manning (mark@pokey.jsc.nasa.gov) wrote:
: 
: 1. I can not format an HFS volume.  The system takes a dump into the
:    monitor when I try.
: 
	I'm having the same problem.  I can't get a working HFS hard
disk volume.  I can format the partition without any problems, but when
copying files into the HFS volume, GS/OS hangs after about 1 meg has
been copied, always!  I have this problem since the first day I get
System 6.0.
	However, I don't have any problems reading/writing to 800k HFS
floppies.  Seems very weird to me.  No reason why hard disk partitions
won't work.  The partition is error-free and ProDOS works fine.
	My GS system is "standard" with 4 meg RAM, High-Speed SCSI, Zip
GSX 9/32 and Audio Animator.  I don't see any reason for HFS failing to
work with my hard disk.

- DOTW -
From: daveh@ccwf.cc.utexas.edu (Dave Huang)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.apple2
Subject: Re: Need help with some text files
Date: 28 Jan 93 08:48:27 GMT
Organization: The University of Texas at Austin
NNTP-Posting-Host: daisy.cc.utexas.edu

In article <jmk3.728194783@crux1.cit.cornell.edu> jmk3@crux2.cit.cornell.edu (Jay Krell) writes:
>>Could you be a bit more specific on the location of the pindarus
>>server?
> 
>pindarus.uiuc.edu

Actually, it's pindarus.cs.uiuc.edu [128.174.240.84]
-- 
David Huang                                 |
Internet: daveh@ccwf.cc.utexas.edu          | "Microwaves: They're not just
UUCP: ...!ut-emx!ccwf.cc.utexas.edu!daveh   |     for cooking anymore."
America Online: DrWho29                     |
From: kimba@gnh-cathouse.cts.com (Kim Brennan)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.apple2
Subject: Re: rSounds -- How to play them?
Date: 24 Jan 93 08:16:01 GMT
Distribution: world
Organization: The Internet
X-Unparsable-Date: Sat Jan 23 93 at 14:02:56 (EST)

> From: joko@well.sf.ca.us (Joe Kohn)
> To prevent stupid mistakes like that, I've demanded that I get to edit the
> editor's editing.

> inCider/A+. Maybe I'm over sensitive, but after getting a flame here the

Good for you. The fewer mistakes in a national publication the better.

As to the flames. I know I sent one to you sometime ago. I apologize now for
it, though at the time I thought it warranted. Defending ones place of
employment is a never ending job, for despite YOUR qualifications there are
others who may not be so friendly with the Apple II community. I speak from
experience with the company I work for...America Online.

                    -=> Message from Kim Brennan <=-
          (kimba@gnh-cathouse.cts.com)  or  (kimbrennan@aol.com)
         {Cathouse BBS (301) 840-8567 3/12/24/9600 V.32 24 hours}
From: uerics@mcl.ucsb.edu (Eric D. Shepherd)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.apple2
Subject: Re: Apple File Exchange problems
Date: 24 Jan 93 23:55:06 GMT

In <635qXB6w166w@hogbbs.scol.pa.us> lone@hogbbs.scol.pa.us (John Hale) writes:

>cb408@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Jason Reames) writes:

>> 
>> 'm STILL having problems converting AW files to Microsoft Works.
>> My school lab has LC2's.  I've installed Apple File Exchange on the
>> hard drive of the LC.  I've formatted a new disk on the GS and then dragged
>> the AW files from the 5.25" floppy to the 3.5" disk, formatted with
>> GS/OS from System 6.0.  

[more stuff about the problem]

>Try a PRODOS disk, as in Mac-to-prodos conversion. That'll (as they say) 
>"probly" do it. GS/OS is just that, GS/OS.      -LW

Uh, no, guy.  GS/OS is an operating system which uses disks formatted
under a number of file systems, the most common of which is the ProDOS
file system.  There is no such thing as a GS/OS disk.

- Eric S.

--
Eric D. Shepherd                   | Apple II Alliance Charter Member
InterNet: uerics@mcl.mcl.ucsb.edu  |           ACM Member
FidoNet:  1:206/2713 Eric Shepherd | Programming Law #1: "When in
AOL:      Sheppy                   | doubt, rewrite from scratch."
Newsgroups: comp.sys.apple2
From: richard@serss0 (Richard A Simm)
Subject: Re: GS-Shell information
Organization: Florida International University, Miami
Date: Mon, 25 Jan 1993 23:26:31 GMT

In article <1k0cjoINN9jp@tortoise.cis.ohio-state.edu> meekins@cis.ohio-state.edu (timothy lee meekins) writes:
}In article <1993Jan24.165136.8050@news.csuohio.edu> damin@randell.cba.csuohio.edu (Greg Boehnlein) writes:
}}
}}Hi all...
}}
}}I am in need of source code for a GS Shell program. Detailed information on 
}}where this could be found would be great. How about the source code to ECP-16?
}}:)
}}
}
}The GNO/Shell source code is available........for a price :)
}
}
}Tim "Make me an offer I can't refuse" Meekins

What kind of information do you need? Let me know and I'll try to help out.
There is no need to spend money for source (yes, I see the smiley).

Albert
Newsgroups: comp.sys.super
From: fineberg@wilbur.nas.nasa.gov (Samuel A. Fineberg)
Subject: Re: i860 performance (was: Re: World's Most Powerful Computing Sites)
Organization: NAS, NASA Ames Research Center, Moffett Field, CA
Date: Sat, 23 Jan 93 20:58:53 GMT

In article <C19s04.3yF@pgroup.com> lfm@pgroup.com (Larry Meadows) writes:
>In article <1993Jan22.015827.26653@nas.nasa.gov> fineberg@nas.nasa.gov writes:
>>In article <1993Jan21.165159.10149@meiko.com>, richard@meiko.com (Richard Cownie) writes:
>>|> 
>Unfortunately, the iPSC/860 board actually takes 3 cycles for a write, so
>the count for the loop is really 7 cycles, or around 11.4 mflops
>
>The i860-XP should be somewhat better, since it can theoretically 
>issue a 128-bit load every other clock.  Of course, everything needs to
>be properly aligned, and the multiply is still 2 clocks.  So around 4-5
>clocks for a daxpy element is more likely.
>
>The problem is that peak mflops performance doesn't give the whole story --
>memory bandwidth is much more important.  Perhaps machines should be
>rated by how long it takes to do a vector add, or some such measure; then
>"super-vector" performance occurs when values can be left in vector registers.
>-- 
>Larry Meadows		The Portland Group
>lfm@pgroup.com
Actually, if there are any vendors out there, this is where peak performance 
numbers can hurt sales.  Intel misled people so much with the iPSC/860's
peak performance, that it made the Paragon look bad (i.e., it only gets 20%
better peak performance).  For the reason's you just ponted out, I expect
the Paragon to do >>20% better than the iPSC/860.  Almost all of our codes
on the iPSC/860 are memory bound. However, Intel can't advertise a >20% 
improvement in peak performancebecause they misled us before.  Of course we 
won't really know how much better the Paragon's nodes are because they have 
to contend with the extra overhead from OSF/1.

Sam

Newsgroups: comp.sys.super
From: hays@ssd.intel.com (Kirk Hays)
Subject: Re: World's Most Powerful Computing Sites
Organization: Intel Supercomputer Systems Division
Date: Fri, 22 Jan 1993 18:51:35 GMT

In article <1993Jan22.015827.26653@nas.nasa.gov>, fineberg@wilbur.nas.nasa.gov (Samuel A. Fineberg) writes:
|> In article <1993Jan21.165159.10149@meiko.com>, richard@meiko.com (Richard Cownie) writes:
|> |> fineberg@wilbur.nas.nasa.gov (Samuel A. Fineberg) writes:

|> |> : Its certainly no less realistic than those for the i860.
|> |> 
|> |> I have to disagree with you there.  I know of *some* applications where
|> |> the i860 can achieve a good fraction of claimed peak speed, e.g. on
|> |> a double-precision matrix multiply you can do over 35MFLOPS, against
|> |> a peak rate claimed as 40MFLOPS (or sometimes 60MFLOPS, because you can do
|> |> 2 adds for each multiply).  In any case, it's well over 50% of peak.
|> 
|> I don't know too many people that write assembly code, and that is what you
|> need to do to get 35 MFLOPs.

False.  Using the PGI compilers on C and FORTRAN source code, selected codes can
achieve > 35 MFLOPS.

As you point out, most codes get less.

-- 
Kirk Hays - NRA Life, seventh generation.
"The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to
do nothing."  -- Edmund Burke (1729-1797)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.super
From: eijkhout@cupid.cs.utk.edu (Victor Eijkhout)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.super
Subject: Re: World's Most Powerful Computing Sites
Date: 23 Jan 93 16:43:14
Organization: /pearl/homes/eijkhout/.organization
Distribution: inet
	<1993Jan22.015827.26653@nas.nasa.gov>
NNTP-Posting-Host: cupid.cs.utk.edu
In-reply-to: fineberg@wilbur.nas.nasa.gov's message of 22 Jan 93 01:58:27 GMT

In article <1993Jan22.015827.26653@nas.nasa.gov> fineberg@wilbur.nas.nasa.gov (Samuel A. Fineberg) writes:

   I don't know too many people that write assembly code, and that is what you
   need to do to get 35 MFLOPs.  As far as I'm concerned, assembly coded
   benchnmarks are useless.

Assembly coded benchmarks, maybe. But the BLAS routines (Basic Linear
Algebra Subroutines) exist on many machines in assembler, and
precisely because they are 1/ standardized across all platforms
2/ optimized for each, you can write real programs in Fortran or C,
with a reasonable speed if you need the BLAS often enough.

Just interface your program to assembler *kernels*.

I know of people who write distributed memory linear system
solvers, that get over 50% performance out of *500 i860's*
using those assembler BLAS.

--
Victor Eijkhout ................................ `There are also a few bugs,
Department of Computer Science .......... though not as many as I've come to
University of Tennessee ............... expect in new [MS]Windows products.'
Knoxville TN 37919 ................................ (from a software review)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.super,comp.parallel
From: stephens@access.digex.com (John Stephens)
Subject: Re: World's Most Powerful Computing Sites
  [ long list of sites/systems deleted from previous posting ]
Organization: Severn Companies, Inc., Lanham, MD 20706
Date: 21 Jan 1993 14:46:57 GMT

It seems as though the list contains redundancies -- when a system
is upgraded, it seems to appear multiple times.  Is this not the
case for (example) Oak Ridge, the first on the list, where there
are three Paragons listed -- are these not the same machine in
various stages of upgrade, both past and planned?  If so, the
MFLOP totals for the site (and probably many others) are
misleading.

Clarification requested.
From: lry1219@cfdd40.boeing.com (Larry Yeagley)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.super
Subject: Re: SSI in deep weeds - anyone know what's going on?
Summary: Steve Chen, SSI
Date: 27 Jan 93 23:06:10 GMT
Organization: Boeing Computer Services, Seattle - CFD lab

Tuesday's (1/26/93) New York Times had an article about the demise of Steve
Chen's company Supercomputer Systems. Some interesting points of the article
are included below.

 . "... Steve S. Chen said today that he was abandoning the project and closing
    his company."

 . "Mr. Chen said that he was closing his factory and laying off his employees
    today. But he said he would continue for several weeks to search for
    additional support, .."

 . "Mr. Chen's company said today that it needed an additional $60 million to
    complete development of its machine and begin manufacturing."

 . "Several executives involved in the project said the computer maker had been
    spending approximately 5$ millon a month recently,...They said that I.B.M.'s
    financial difficulties were not the reason the computer maker had decided to
    end its financing of Mr. Chen's project. Instead it was the continued lack
    of clear evidence that a working machine would emerge soon that led I.B.M.
    to close its purse."

 . The article went on to describe what it saw as the tightening competition
   among conventional supercomputers, massively parallel supercomputers and work
   stations capable of near-supercomputing speeds.

Th-th-th-that's all f-f-f-folks,

+---------------------------+--------------------------------------------+
| Larry Yeagley             |          Cogito, ergo cogito sum.          |
| lry1219@cfdd42.boeing.com |                                            |
+---------------------------+--------------------------------------------+
|  The advice, opinions and mistakes expressed here are my own and       |
|  certainly not Boeing's.                                               |
+------------------------------------------------------------------------+
From: bownes@sunbow.East.Sun.COM (Consultant to the Stars)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.super
Subject: SSI in deep weeds - anyone know what's going on?
Date: 24 Jan 1993 20:44:40 GMT
Organization: School of Corrective Phrenology.
Distribution: world
Reply-To: bownes@sunbow.East.Sun.COM
NNTP-Posting-Host: sunbow.east.sun.com

    I've heard a bunch of rumors in the last 48 hours, some wild, some
    sensible, and few facts. The facts I have been able to confirm are:
    
    Fact #1 - The SSI-IBM partnership expired at the end of Dec 1992. Meant
        SSI was going to have to find funding somewhere. No Surprise.
   
    Fact #2 - SSI locked the doors, disconnected the phones, and shut all
        the systems down Friday night with no explanation to anyone. Anyone
        who does know anything is out of town, or unavailable, or not talking.
   
    Fact #3 - Whomever is running this lock-the-doors circus isn't doing a very good job. 
        There are alot of scared, uninformed employees spending several days speculating 
        on just what is going on. Glad I'm not a manager out there...Glad I'm not out
        there in any capacity anymore.

     With IBM's recent troubles, it's no big surprise that they are cutting SSI's funding, but
cutting them off cold this close to project completion (how close I won't say) seems crazy.
But then there have been those who speculated that IBM was in it for the technology alone.

    I expect Steve and company are spending the weekend (their cars are in the lot...) scrambling
to find the dollars to keep going. But will IBM let them? IBM still has a great deal of say as 
to who they can cut a deal with. If IBM wants the technology and not the machine, they'll nix
any last saving deal that anyone offers, otherwise we might just see them rise again Real
Soon Now. I wish them good luck.

    So, anyway, anyone got any more details? I'd expect we'll see something out of Eau Claire
sometime Moday, but who knows.

Bob

Newsgroups: comp.sys.super
From: eugene@wilbur.nas.nasa.gov (Eugene N. Miya)
Subject: Forwarded anonymous post (SSI)
Organization: NAS, NASA Ames Research Center, Moffett Field, CA
Date: Mon, 25 Jan 93 19:03:10 GMT


It is with sadness that a person emailed this note to me.
They wanted an anonymous post about SSI.  He did not want it
to seem like his company was gloating over the loss of a competitor.

--enm

Radio news conference -- Monday, January 25, 1993  11:15-11:45 a.m. CST

PREPARED ANNOUNCEMENTS

Steve Chen, President/Founder SSI
  - "Unable to secure additional funding"
  - "No alternative but to terminate the project"
  - IPO -- "cannot find investment banker willing to offer stock"
  - They are closing the doors, but will continue to pursue all funding
    possibilities. But he says, "after 2-3 weeks, it will be too late to 
    reverse the path we're now embarking on."

Adam Shear, Exec. VP of SSI
  - "have exhausted all funding"
  - Require $60 Million outside funding in 1993 to cover remaining 
    development and manufacturing ramp-up.
  - "We are AHEAD of the schedule put together two years ago."
  - It is possible that they can still get funding, but "we're not optimistic."
  - Employees will recieve benefits for 60 days, and wages for all vacation 
    accruals.
  - 320 employees (300 in Eau Claire), primarily engineering/technical
  - annual payroll = $15 million
  - "Employees were told that we're closing and ceasing all operations."


QUESTION/ANSWERS FROM THE PRESS

Steve Chen, President/Founder SSI
  - "2.5 ns benchmark shows that we've created the world's fastest computer"
  - "We do have a buyer ... commercial/government"
  - "We're a little behind the 5-year schedule, but accomplished more than
     planned"

Adam Shear
  - "We had expected to ship our first computer in October 1993"
  - "We have a number of patents"
  - "Highly unlikely that the 300 Eau Claire employees will find new
     employment in this area"
  - SS1 is 4-32 processors with entry price of $10 million

Newsgroups: comp.sys.super
From: gary@chpc.utexas.edu (Gary Smith)
Subject: Re: LIST OF SITES - NEW RATINGS
Organization: The University of Texas System CHPC
Date: Fri, 22 Jan 93 15:39:44 GMT

Since many of those sites included [not very interesting] peak MFLOPS
ratings for Intel Paragon and TMC CM-5 machines, but Dongarra's latest
[January 13, 1993] Linpack report STILL has no Linpack numbers for the
Paragons and CM-5s (even in Table 3, where one can make the matrices
as large as they wish!), would some owner of these machines please
give us the Linpack results for those two systems?

---Gary

Randolph Gary Smith                       Internet: gary@chpc.utexas.edu
Systems Group                             Phonenet: (512) 471-2411
Center for High Performance Computing     Snailnet: 10100 Burnet Road
The University of Texas System                      Austin, Texas 78758-4497
Newsgroups: comp.sys.super,comp.arch,comp.compilers
From: jlg@cochiti.lanl.gov (J. Giles)
Subject: Re: How many vector registers are useful?
Reply-To: jlg@cochiti.lanl.gov (J. Giles)
Organization: Los Alamos National Laboratory
Date: Tue, 26 Jan 1993 18:33:43 GMT
Keywords: architecture, vector

kirchner@uklira.informatik.uni-kl.de (Reinhard Kirchner) writes:
> A register has an optimizing effect only when the value in it can be used
                                      ^^^^
> several times, at least twice, to avoid loading the value again from
> memory.  We all know that this is to a great extent possible on scalar
> machines.

Vectors and scalars are not really all that different.  Unless you have
overlap between the vectors they really behave just like large scalars.
My objection to the above is the statement that multiple use is the *only*
optimizing effect.  The other (also true of scalars) is when the value is
an intermediate.  A value which was just produced as the result of an
operation, which is needed as an operand almost immediately, and that's
the last you'll ever use it will not benefit from being written to memory
and read back in again.  Of course, if you can chain your functional units
together without using intermediaries at all, you won't need registers for
this purpose.
--
J. Giles
-- 
Send compilers articles to compilers@iecc.cambridge.ma.us or
{ima | spdcc | world}!iecc!compilers.  Meta-mail to compilers-request.
From: dik@cwi.nl (Dik T. Winter)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.super
Subject: Re: World's Most Powerful Computing Sites
Date: 21 Jan 93 21:33:18 GMT
Organization: CWI, Amsterdam

In article <1993Jan20.232809.29241@nas.nasa.gov> fineberg@nas.nasa.gov writes:
 > In article <1993Jan20.211032.11929@hubcap.clemson.edu>, richard@meiko.com (Richard Cownie) writes:
 > |> This seems to imply a figure of over 4MFLOPS per T800.  Last time
 > |> I programmed one, it was a real struggle to achieve over 1MFLOPS
 > |> even for inner loops of vector routines.
...
 > Its certainly no less realistic than those for the i860.
 > 
I disagree a bit.  It is possible on the i860 to get sensible routines
running at 50 MFLOPS single precision (although also here it is a real
struggle).  But using published peak can be very misleading.  I know
of one machine where the published peak can only be obtained during the
calculation cycles of the vector instruction.  You must ignore instruction
start-up time.  If you included that the peak would be lowered by 25% (yeah,
right, one quarter).  But than we get at the standard question: what should
you use?
-- 
dik t. winter, cwi, kruislaan 413, 1098 sj  amsterdam, nederland
home: bovenover 215, 1025 jn  amsterdam, nederland; e-mail: dik@cwi.nl
Newsgroups: comp.sys.super,comp.arch,comp.compilers
From: grunwald@tile.cs.colorado.edu (Dirk Grunwald)
Subject: Re: How many vector registers are useful?
Reply-To: grunwald@tile.cs.colorado.edu (Dirk Grunwald)
Organization: University of Colorado at Boulder
Date: Mon, 25 Jan 1993 22:47:16 GMT
Keywords: vector, architecture

But having additional VR's means you can overlap load and store with the
computation. Having the size and number be adjustable means you can
balance the needed overlap and reuse with the ability to use long vectors.
-- 
Send compilers articles to compilers@iecc.cambridge.ma.us or
{ima | spdcc | world}!iecc!compilers.  Meta-mail to compilers-request.
From: bownes@peterpan.crd.ge.com (Keptin Komrade Dr. Bobwrench III)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.super
Subject: Update: Re: SSI in deep weeds - anyone know what's going on?
Date: 25 Jan 93 18:47:39 GMT
Organization: School of Corrective Phrenology


I just got this from someone in Eau Claire....

Quotes from the interview/press conference on WAYY, a local
radio station in Eau Claire. It pretty much confirms what I said earlier.


PREPARED ANNOUNCEMENTS

Steve Chen, President/Founder SSI
  - "Unable to secure additional funding"
  - "No alternative but to terminate the project"
  - IPO -- "cannot find investment banker willing to offer stock"
  - They are closing the doors, but will continue to pursue all funding
    possibilities. But he says, "after 2-3 weeks, it will be too late to 
    reverse the path we're now embarking on."

Adam Shear, Exec. VP of SSI
  - "have exhausted all funding"
  - Require $60 Million outside funding in 1993 to cover remaining 
    development and manufacturing ramp-up.
  - "We are AHEAD of the schedule put together two years ago."
  - It is possible that they can still get funding, but "we're not optimistic."
  - Employees will recieve benefits for 60 days, and wages for all vacation 
    accruals.
  - 320 employees (300 in Eau Claire), primarily engineering/technical
  - annual payroll = $15 million
  - "Employees were told that we're closing and ceasing all operations."
  


QUESTION/ANSWERS FROM THE PRESS

Steve Chen, President/Founder SSI
  - "2.5 ns benchmark shows that we've created the world's fastest computer"
  - "We do have a buyer ... commercial/government"
  - "We're a little behind the 5-year schedule, but accomplished more than
     planned"

Adam Shear
  - "We had expected to ship our first computer in October 1993"
  - "We have a number of patents"
  - "Highly unlikely that the 300 Eau Claire employees will find new
     employment in this area"
  - SS1 is 4-32 processors with entry price of $10 million
-- 
Bob Bownes, aka iii - "Fork twice to avoid zombies"
Warning: This may contain opinions. They belong to me, not to Aule-Tek, 
Sun Microsystems, General Electric or anyone else. But you can rent them. 
Newsgroups: comp.sys.super
From: stgprao@st.unocal.COM (Richard Ottolini)
Subject: Re: SSI in deep weeds - anyone know what's going on?
Organization: Unocal Corporation
Date: Mon, 25 Jan 1993 16:12:00 GMT

1/24 LA Times business section said IBM stopped funding Chen's supercomputer project.
Newsgroups: comp.sys.super,comp.arch,comp.compilers