From: parr@acs.ucalgary.ca (Charles Parr)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: idiots with guns
Date: 9 Nov 92 20:50:02 GMT
Organization: The University of Calgary, Alberta

In article <1992Nov9.182333.22999@pbhya.PacBell.COM> whheydt@PacBell.COM (Wilson Heydt) writes:
>In article <92Nov09.165851.25398@acs.ucalgary.ca> parr@acs.ucalgary.ca (Charles Parr) writes:
>>In article <1de8siINNdnk@crcnis1.unl.edu> msb@hoss.unl.edu (micheal bloomberg) writes:
>>>In <9211021750.AA23667@math.bu.edu> jeffs@math.bu.EDU (Jeff Suzuki) writes:
>>
>>>If local SCA groups gave constables a half hour or more of 
>>>training every week they would be better trained than the vast majority
>>>of security guards.
>>
>>This is what I would like to see...A small cadre of trained and
>>useful Scadians capable of preventing minor problems, and
>>practicing damage control in large ones. The key here is
>>*trained*...How can I go about finding this training for
>>myself and my fellow constables?
>
>How small a cadre?  To run a 'normal' gate at a Western camping event
>(from around noon to midnight on Friday and 8 am to 6 pm on Saturday)
>requires 30 people in 2 hour shifts.  Some excess over the bare
>minimum are specified to account for the more active arrival times.

We run standard 4hr shifts these days. At a camping event I'd
like to see two on duty at the gate, plus two on patrol. With
headsets, you could drop to one at each station, but they'd 
need to be trained, and not just "guys helping out". 

It's a problem, and one reason why site security is not as
effective as I wouldlike it to be: Not enough constables
are available for duty.

>This means that the Constable-in-Charge is looking for 30 volunteers
>to be away from other activities during the event.  Now *add* to that
>any additional security or fire safety activities that are needed....
>Where are you going to find enough people who are also willing to
>spend additional time being trained--and pay for that training?
>
>>>However, security companies have very specific insurance and bonding require-
>>>ments that would be very expensive to reproduce on a small scale.  By providing
>>>training and whatnot, you would be implying that your security force was 
>>>competent and professional.  You would open yourselves up to immense lawsuits.
>>
>>Hmmmm. I suspect it would be no worse than the liability of the
>>Chirgeonate....
>
>Governing and Policy Decision #11:
>
>"Policy on First Aid at Events" (Aug. 1985)
>
>"While organized first aid services are desireable at Society events,
>the corporation may not be placed in the position of promising to
>provide them.  Therefore, while Society branches are encouraged to
>make every effort to have qualified volunteer first aid personnel
>available, they are specifically prohibited from requiring the
>presence of a medical officer at events, and from in any way implying
>the Society's sponsorship of an event depends upon the prescence of
>organized first aid services."
>
>(Modulo my typing, that's the entire text of G&PD 11.)
>
>If there existed a core group of formally trained security personnel,
>I think you'd find an similar ruling put out covering them.  We really
>are *not* in a position to promise some services--even where wo do
>everything we can to provide them anyway.

It is my understanding, and this is not as solidly based as I
would like it to be, that the laws which are the background cause
to this ruling are not a factor here in Canada.

If I knew *for a fact* that there was no person qualified to
administer first aid at a tourney, I would want to see that
event cancelled.

If there were no constables on duty at the gate of any
camping event, I would not attend it.

Both are, in my opinionated opinion, situations in which we
would be placing ourselves in considerable danger.

Carolus Malvoix
Montengarde An Tir
-- 
Within the span of the last few weeks I have heard elements of
separate threads which, in that they have been conjoined in time,
struck together to form a new chord within my hollow and echoing
gourd. --Unknown net.person
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca