HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: davep@uk.sun.com (Dave Powell - Sun UK - Tech Support)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.rugby
Subject: Monmouthshire vs Australia
Date: 18 Nov 92 14:48:14 GMT
Reply-To: davep@uk.sun.com
Organization: Sun Microsystems Ltd.

I have just read that this ended in a 19-9 victory for Australia. Apparently the game
was marred by a referee (Irish) who awarded a total of 52 penalties during the 
match. I do not know the proportion awarded to each side - but since there was no 
comment about either side being particularly at fault, I guess it was fairly even.
Obviously, there were a lot of infringements but (according to the Independent) the
referee was far too fussy and never applied the advantage rule. However, Bob Dwyer
complained (yet again) of the opposition's repeated disregard for the laws.

This is getting a bit tiresome - none of the Welsh sides have been anymore guilty
than the Australians of illegal play, and this is just sounding like an excuse for
the poor performances the Australians have given since their arrival in Wales.

Dave
From: gds@casper.cs.uct.ac.za (Riel Smit)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.rugby
Subject: Re: lineouts
Date: 20 Nov 92 07:43:29 GMT
Reply-To: gds@cs.uct.ac.za
Organization: Computer Science Department, University of Cape Town

davep@uk.sun.com (Dave Powell - Sun UK - Tech Support) writes:

>According to Bill Taylor:
>> Not just in line-outs, (oh my, they'll just *have* to stop that lifting, or they'll
>> cut their own throats);

>Hmmmm....will they really? This is something that referees are having great difficulty
>with at the moment.

I agree completely.  The inconsistency with which the rules are applied in
lineouts is incredible.  I think the problem is because it is difficult to
play according to the lineout rules and still play rugby :-).  My vote is that
there should only be two rules in the lineouts (apart from the general ones
like knock-on, foul play, etc.): you must throw the ball in straight (or at
least more towards your opponents :-) and you are not allowed to take
someone's legs from under him as he is jumping for the ball.  If the
forwards want to build a human pyramid or throw one of their teammates a
few meters in the air to catch the ball, that's fine.  Why not?  Or maybe 
one should have a throw-in as in soccer?
-- 
Riel Smit,  Computer Science                              gds@cs.uct.ac.za
University of Cape Town                      gds%cs.uct.ac.za@rain.psg.com
From: preidy@alsvid.une.edu.au (Paul Reidy)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.rugby
Subject: Paul Kahl at 5/8
Date: 18 Nov 92 22:36:37 GMT
Organization: University of New England - Northern Rivers (Lismore)

I can't believe Paul Kahl was picked at 5/8 for the Welsh test.  The selectors
continually overlook NSW players in favour of Queenslanders.  Tim Wallace is a
far more inventive player than Kahl and he can pass both sides of his body
(pretty important I'd think).  What about Jim Allen, he has played great for
NSW and can't even make a tour.

-- 
Paul Reidy  Internet:  preidy@loki.une.edu.au   Phone:  +61 66 ????????
    University of New England, Northern Rivers (Lismore) NSW Australia
From: clive@otago.ac.nz (Clive Boock)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.rugby
Subject: Engl. vs SA
Date: 16 Nov 92 10:19:07 +1300
Organization: University of Otago, Dunedin, New Zealand

   Weekend Results

  Most will know by now that England easily Beat South Africa by 33-16 and that
Llanelli beat Australia and are suggesting that history has been changed.
  The test match showed perhaps how much the South Africans have to learn
about rugby in the 1990's. The statistics at one stage showed that Naasty
Bootha was kicking 72% of the time he received the ball and lifting in the
lineouts seems to be in the blood of the men from the veldt and they were
invariably penalised for it. 
   England didn't really score from enterprising play  but capitalised on the
mistakes of their opponents.  The only time that South Africa really ran the
ball was in injury time and it was far too bloody late by then.  New Zealand,
Australia, France and England have all scored 25+ points against South Africa
in the past few months and although I welcome them back to the test match arena
wouldn't it have been better for them to have started a little more slowly?
   Wales have the mountain to climb on Saturday against Australia and although
the Wallabies were beaten in the weekend I dont expect the Welsh team to have
the cohesion or the committment necessary to beat the world champions at full
strength.

Clive H. Boock, University of Otago, New Zealand.
Newsgroups: rec.sport.rugby
From: cctr123@csc.canterbury.ac.nz (Alan Murray, CSC Operations, Uni of Canty)
Subject: Re: Eng B v SA (Nov 7)
Organization: University of Canterbury, Christchurch, New Zealand
Date: Sun, 15 Nov 1992 21:21:12 GMT

In article <BxM1uz.H6t@hpwin052.uksr.hp.com>, grahamc@hpwin052.uksr.hp.com (Graham Cutting) writes:
> Sean Lineen and Jamie Salmon both come from NZ, and then there's Morris ...

Small correction - Jamie Salmon is as English as John Gallagher, it's just that
the All Black selectors got first chance at both of them.

Alan
From: ksrao@power.ee.ndsu.nodak.edu
Newsgroups: rec.sport.rugby
Subject: Re: Wales v Australia on Satellite
Date: 18 Nov 92 17:43:32 GMT
Article-I.D.: ns1.BxxAKK.FEK
Reply-To: ksrao@power.ee.ndsu.nodak.edu
Organization: North Dakota Higher Education Computing Network

In article <1992Nov17.165436.15171@athena.mit.edu>, gdebelle@athena.mit.edu (Guy L Debelle) writes:
>
>Maybe ksrao can fill in more of the satellite details.
>
    Normally most of the Channel 10 rugby feeds are on the satellite G2. They
have been using the channel 15 for the last few weeks. You can try that channel 
and if it is not there, try flipping the channels. If I see pre-game portion of
the feed, I will post the news. The gave would appear in Black and white on
NTSC TVs (they are sending the signal in PAL)


>Guy
K. Sankara Rao                          e-mail ksrao@power.eee.ndsu.nodak.edu

Department of Electrical Engineering
North Dakota State University
Fargo, ND 58105  USA

Phone:  (701)237-7217  (o)
        (701)235-9912  (h)
From: gds@casper.cs.uct.ac.za (Riel Smit)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.rugby
Subject: Re: South Africa tour in Newsweek
Date: 23 Nov 92 08:32:31 GMT
Article-I.D.: casper.By5uE8.BtF
Reply-To: gds@cs.uct.ac.za
Organization: Computer Science Department, University of Cape Town

cep@cs.nott.ac.uk (Charlie Pearce) writes:
>The Springbok is taken by some parties as an apartheid emblem and there has
>been pressure for it to be removed. I think the BBC had strict guidelines (from
>I know not who) not to mention the word at all during commentary. The new badge
>of the SARFU incorporates the Springbok plus the leaves (sorry, don't know what
>they are) from the former black union (SARB?) as the two have been merged.
^^^^^^^^^ 
         Protea.  Not just the leaves, but a flower as well.  Locally
everyone still call them the Springboks.  The ANC does not like it, so for
how long that will be the case we don't know.  Before the tour there was
talk about calling them the Proteas, but people objected since, the
argument went, then they might as well be called the pansies (and besides
the national universities team used to be called the proteas I think).  
I suspect they will be called the springboks or boks (or bokke) by people 
in the street for a long time to come, regardless of what their official 
name will be.
-- 
Riel Smit,  Computer Science                              gds@cs.uct.ac.za
University of Cape Town                      gds%cs.uct.ac.za@rain.psg.com
Newsgroups: rec.sport.rugby
From: dedward1@cc.swarthmore.edu (Deirdre Edwards)
Subject: Rugby in US?
Organization: Swarthmore College
Date: Wed, 18 Nov 1992 18:27:22 GMT

I'm a new rugger in the US, (just finished my first season), and I was
wondering if there is any way for a aspiring hooker to pick up some
professional rugby on American TV?  Do any of the cable stations carry it?
Also, any songs would be greatly appreciated.  Our club's getting tired of
the same old thing.
Thanx,
Deirdre Edwards
Swarthmore College
Swarthmore, PA 19081
dedward1@cc.swarthmore.edu
Newsgroups: rec.sport.rugby
Subject: Re: South Africa, Australia, New Zealand.
From: geoff@rua.isor.vuw.ac.nz (Geoffrey Grimwood)
Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1992 00:31:11 GMT
Organization: Institute of Statistics and Operations Research, VUW, Wellington, NZ


In article <1992Nov20.131301.12353@waikato.ac.nz>, higham@waikato.ac.nz writes:

[stuff deleted]

|> What about the All blacks of 1987-90? They were, up until the Aussie sunrise,
|> the best team of all time IMHO. Undefeated for like 3 years, 19 tests +, they
|> beat everyone in the world bar SA. Buck Shelford and the team were awesome.

[stuff deleted]

Admittedly the above is IMHO. But do not forget the All Blacks of the sixties.
About whom we were reminded of with Ken Gray's death. If I remember the newspaper
article they planned a fair number of tests for only 2 loses and a draw.

Regards
From: cjp@aber.ac.uk (C J Price)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.rugby
Subject: Are Australia worthy World Champions
Date: 16 Nov 92 08:43:49 GMT
Organization: Computer Science Dept., UCW Aberystwyth

Andrew Manning writes about Oz/NZ:

>>I think that it was obvious to any intelligent observer that the
>>two sides are incredibly evenly matched.

>All I was disputing was an early posting which claimed that Oz was
>far and away the best in the world. From the statistics (winning a
>series 2-1, and by one and two point margins), and from various
>comments on the net (both Kiwi AND Ozzie), I think that the previous
>poster's remarks were totally unjustified.


Like I said, it was fairly obvious from your posting that you were
from New Zealand, despite the mail address.

I saw the first two games, and it would have been fairly unjust if NZ
had won either of them. My reading of what was on the net was that
lots of Kiwis were whinging about losing, and the Aussies were too
polite to crow. 

Remember too that the score between the two teams over the year was
actually 3-1. They beat you in the World Cup too: they really were
World Champions and by far the best in the world.

Sadly, they are looking somewhat match weary and injury hit at the
moment. They will probably still beat Wales, but if Wales do win, it
won't be the World Champions that they beat.

Cheers,

Chris Price


--
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
Chris Price, Department of Computer Science, University College of Wales,
             Aberystwyth, Dyfed, SY23 3BZ, United Kingdom.
email: cjp@uk.ac.aber (within UK) cjp@aber.ac.uk (rest of world?)
Telephone: 0970-622444
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: js0d@ns1.cc.lehigh.edu (JEAN-PHILIPPE STEYER)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.rugby
Subject: France vs. Argentina
Date: 16 Nov 92 15:56:01 GMT
Organization: Lehigh University

Hello everyone !
I have a "sad" news for all the french readers of this mail-list ...
France lost the first test-match IN FRANCE against Argentina : 20 to 24 ...
Sniiif !... Even if France scored two tries, the Argentinians scored 7
penalties and one drop. From what I heard, the french felt asleep in the
second half and didn't do anything.
Does anyone know more about it ?

Jean-Philippe Steyer
Lehigh University
Pennsylvania USA
e-mail : js0d@lehigh.edu
Newsgroups: rec.sport.rugby
From: david@datamark.co.nz (David Rowland)
Subject: Re: Are Australia worthy World Champions
Date: Tue, 17 Nov 1992 01:00:15 GMT
Organization: Datamark International Ltd.

In article <CJP.92Nov16084349@aberda.aber.ac.uk> cjp@aber.ac.uk (C J Price) writes:
>Andrew Manning writes about Oz/NZ:
>
>>>I think that it was obvious to any intelligent observer that the
>>>two sides are incredibly evenly matched.
>
>>All I was disputing was an early posting which claimed that Oz was
>>far and away the best in the world. From the statistics (winning a
>>series 2-1, and by one and two point margins), and from various
>>comments on the net (both Kiwi AND Ozzie), I think that the previous
>>poster's remarks were totally unjustified.
>
>
>Like I said, it was fairly obvious from your posting that you were
>from New Zealand, despite the mail address.
>
>I saw the first two games, and it would have been fairly unjust if NZ
>had won either of them. My reading of what was on the net was that
>lots of Kiwis were whinging about losing, and the Aussies were too
>polite to crow. 
>

I agree with the fact that NZ did not deserve to win the first two
games.  In fact, I will go on and say that NZ should have not even
come close.  (And I am a NZer).  The fact is that Oz played better
than we did on attack but could not convert their opportunities into
points.

I would say, however, that Oz had better watch out or they would get
themselves into the same trap we did after NZ won the World Cup by
relying on the "Old Guard" to try to bring it home again.  We tried
and failed.

My prediction for the next world cup winners: New Zealand. 
(Who Else) :-)
-- 
| David Rowland       | The British are using New Zealanders.  They must |
| Datamark Intl Ltd   | really mean business !                           |
| Wellington          |      -  General Rommel During Northern African   |
| NEW ZEALAND         |         Campaign WWII.                           |
From: gds@casper.cs.uct.ac.za (Riel Smit)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.rugby
Subject: Re: Engl. vs SA
Date: 20 Nov 92 07:47:46 GMT
Reply-To: gds@cs.uct.ac.za
Organization: Computer Science Department, University of Cape Town

grahamc@hpwin052.uksr.hp.com (Graham Cutting) writes:

>Clive Boock (clive@otago.ac.nz) wrote:
>>in the past few months and although I welcome them back to the test match arena
>>wouldn't it have been better for them to have started a little more slowly?

>There were meant to tour Italy and Romania but for reasons that I forget they 
>cancelled.  Money I think.

No, politics.  The ANC aligned national sports body was not in favour of
any other tours.  As it was, they just barely supported this tour. (Note I
am not expressing myself on the merits or otherwise of their position.)
-- 
Riel Smit,  Computer Science                              gds@cs.uct.ac.za
University of Cape Town                      gds%cs.uct.ac.za@rain.psg.com
From: forsyth@cstr.ed.ac.uk (Mark Forsyth)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.rugby
Subject: Re: Eng B v SA (Nov 7)
Date: 16 Nov 92 16:54:08 GMT
Organization: Centre for Speech Technology Research, Edinburgh University

In article <1992Nov16.102112.1@csc.canterbury.ac.nz>, cctr123@csc.canterbury.ac.nz (Alan Murray, CSC Operations, Uni of Canty) writes:
|> In article <BxM1uz.H6t@hpwin052.uksr.hp.com>, grahamc@hpwin052.uksr.hp.com (Graham Cutting) writes:
|> > Sean Lineen and Jamie Salmon both come from NZ, and then there's Morris ...
|> 
|> Small correction - Jamie Salmon is as English as John Gallagher, it's just that
|> the All Black selectors got first chance at both of them.
                               ^^^^^^^^^^^^
I seem to recall John G was turned down by Harlequins before he 
went to N.Z. 
Poor judgement on somebodies part!
From: S.Burke@bradford.ac.uk (S BURKE)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.rugby
Subject: Re: Eng B v SA (Nov 7)
Date: 17 Nov 92 16:53:53 GMT
Organization: University of Bradford, UK
Originator: 91633880@ccw320

In article <1992Nov16.165408.5806@aisb.ed.ac.uk> forsyth@cstr.ed.ac.uk (Mark Forsyth) writes:
>In article <1992Nov16.102112.1@csc.canterbury.ac.nz>, cctr123@csc.canterbury.ac.nz (Alan Murray, CSC Operations, Uni of Canty) writes:
>|> In article <BxM1uz.H6t@hpwin052.uksr.hp.com>, grahamc@hpwin052.uksr.hp.com (Graham Cutting) writes:
>|> > Sean Lineen and Jamie Salmon both come from NZ, and then there's Morris ...
>|> 
>|> Small correction - Jamie Salmon is as English as John Gallagher, it's just that
>|> the All Black selectors got first chance at both of them.
>                               ^^^^^^^^^^^^
>I seem to recall John G was turned down by Harlequins before he 
>went to N.Z. 
>Poor judgement on somebodies part!

Judging by his complete lack of success at Leeds, I doubt it :-)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.rugby
From: cep@cs.nott.ac.uk (Charlie Pearce)
Subject: Re: South Africa, Australia, New Zealand.
Organization: Nottingham University
Date: Thu, 19 Nov 92 11:36:59 GMT

In article <1992Nov18.223940.21423@cs.su.oz.au> allanc@cluster.cs.su.oz (Restless Wanderer) writes:
>In article <BxwAEH.75D@cantua.canterbury.ac.nz> wft@math.canterbury.ac.nz (Bill Taylor) writes:
>>It is clear, I think, that S.A. are nowhere near the 3rd best (i.e. England).
>>Indeed, I think they would lose to Scotland right now; and might have a tough
>>time with Ireland or Wales, even, (though they would win these). So it
>>seems their placing is FIFTH EQUAL; alongside France, (after Scotland).
>
>	I place them at about 7th-9th in the world,just in front of Italy.

What would readers predict as the outcome of a match between the Springboks and
Canada? Hard one to call, IMHO.

Charlie
From: clement@arp.anu.edu.au (CJ Canon)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.rugby
Subject: Test match - Australia v. Wales
Date: 22 Nov 1992 09:06:51 GMT
Organization: Centre for Information Science Research ANU
Distribution: world
NNTP-Posting-Host: 150.203.20.2


For those of you who got my earlier post, I had omitted Rod McCall
from the list of try scorers for Australia. The more correct results
follow:


	Australia:		   |     Wales
======+============================+=========================
Tries |  D. Wilson                 |
      |  D. Campese                |
      |  R. McCall                 |
      |                            |
Goals |  Roebuck (3)		   |   Stevens (2)
      |                            |
======+============================+=========================

Referee:	Tony Spreadbury (England)

Half-time score:	5-3   Australia

Full-time score:	23-6  Australia

Shortly before 1/2 time Willie O. threw some punches in a scrum/ruck
whatever. Wales was awarded a penalty - goal attempt missed.

Lights were turned on during halftime (?) - _very_ dark.

David Wilson went off with a shoulder injury midway thru the 2nd half,
replaced by Troy Coker (# 21).

CJ.
From: cjp@aber.ac.uk (C J Price)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.rugby
Subject: Wales 6 Australia 23
Date: 21 Nov 92 22:14:57 GMT
Organization: Computer Science Dept., UCW Aberystwyth

An interesting game. My heart stopped when I saw the referee was in
white, but it was an Englishman I've never heard of, rather than Fred
Howard, and didn't do too badly.

Wales played fairly solidly in the first half, not exactly
adventurous (Colin Stephens managed to drop the ball rather than a
goal in front of the posts), but defending well when they needed to.

The most amazing feature of the first half was that Wales won good
lineout ball and disrupted some of the Aussie lineouts. Neither side
had much of a platform and the game tended to be played around the
half way line. The Aussie lead (5-3) was due to Roebuck hitting the
post with an easy kick, catching the return and sending his forwards
over. Wow, I wish he could teach me to do that...

Start of second half was a very different story. Aussies dominate
lineout and loose, three trips into Welsh territory come back with two
tries and a penalty which I wouldn't have given. 18-6.

Wales even out a bit, do some adventurous attacking stoutly defended
by Australia. Interception on Oz 20 metre line, kick ahead leads to
only piece of Campese magic in the game as he races 60 yards to
touchdown.

Willy O was pretty huge (but then he always was :->), as were the rest
of the Oz forwards. The centres and Roebuck defended well, although
one felt that the speed with which they came up made it worth trying
the chip that worked for England against SA last week. Maybe the Babas
will try it next week. Is there another Oz outside half over here who
would care to turn up and play a game for his country? Liner is being
sorely missed.

Cheers,

Chris Price
--
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
Chris Price, Department of Computer Science, University College of Wales,
             Aberystwyth, Dyfed, SY23 3BZ, United Kingdom.
email: cjp@uk.ac.aber (within UK) cjp@aber.ac.uk (rest of world?)
Telephone: 0970-622444
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: G.R.Price@cm.cf.ac.uk (G Price)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.rugby
Subject: Welsh team
Date: 16 Nov 92 10:41:40 GMT
Organization: University of Wales College of Cardiff, Cardiff, WALES, UK.
X-Mailer: Cardiff Computing Maths PP Mail Open News Gateway

Alan Davies announced the Welsh side to face Australia on Rugby Special
Wales last night.

T.Clement         Swansea
I.Evans (C)       Llanelli
W.Procter           "
M.Hall            Cardiff
S.Gibbs           Swansea
C.Stephens        Llanelli
R.Jones           Swansea

H.Williams-Jones  S.W.Police
G.Jenkins         Swansea
M.Griffiths       Cardiff
G.Llewelyn        Neath
A.Copsey          Llanelli
R.Webster         Swansea
E.Lewis           Llanelli
S.Davies          Swansea (Pack leader)

Wayne Procter moves from the B team to the full side to win his first cap.
This allows Mike Hall, in outstanding form this year, to move to his favoured
centre position.  Stephens is for some reason preferred to all the other
candidates at outside half, though he had a storming game for Llanelli on
Saturday he has never looked international class. The pack has been settled
for some time though I would like to see Swansea's Alan Reynolds at Blind side
with Lewis switching to No 8 in place of Davies.

Although the, virtually,full strength Oz side lost to Llanelli on Saturday
Tony Copsey failed to win any ball from either Eales or Coker and this was a
rather ominous sign for the test. I can see Australia raising their game and
overcoming the Welsh in what will be I think a VERY close game. 

Gwyn
Organization: Fifth yr. senior, Materials Science and Engineering, Carnegie Mellon, Pittsburgh, PA
Newsgroups: rec.sport.rugby
Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1992 21:08:34 -0500 
From: Christopher Bradley Devlin <cd1i+@andrew.cmu.edu>
Subject: Re: Rugby in US?

>I'm a new rugger in the US, (just finished my first season), and I was
>wondering if there is any way for a aspiring hooker to pick up some
>professional rugby on American TV?  Do any of the cable stations carry it?
>Also, any songs would be greatly appreciated.  Our club's getting tired of
>the same old thing.
>Thanx,
>Deirdre Edwards
>Swarthmore College
>Swarthmore, PA 19081
>dedward1@cc.swarthmore.edu 

Well, there's Rugby World, but Prime sports cable station seems to show
it at random times and days.  Besides, they concentrate mostly on league
for some bizarre reason.  Oh, and it's not professional rugby, no such
thing.  You can most likely rent some tapes of games from your union,
what would that be, Eastern PA Rugby Union?  Fun to get together with
the team off-season and watch.

The only way to get new songs, in my opinion, is to earn them.  You need
someone in the club who can remember new songs they hear from other
teams.  Take a road trip to teams you don't usually play and try and
remember the new songs.  Or order a book (one of the backs should know
how to read).

Good luck.  Welcome to rugby.

Chris