From: jsast@unix.cis.pitt.edu (Jonathan S. Anderson)
Newsgroups: alt.desert-storm
Subject: Re: Desert Storm vs. Vietnam
Date: 17 Apr 92 01:58:08 GMT
Organization: University of Pittsburgh

In article <2531@creatures.cs.vt.edu> sahle@csgrad.cs.vt.edu (Eskinder Sahle) writes:
>-----------------------------------------------------------------
>The writer of this post is Ahmed Bouzid, and NOT Eskinder Sahle
>-----------------------------------------------------------------
>What disheartens me most about what has happened is that America seems to have 
>reached the unalterable conclusion that the treatment it gave its Vietnam 
>veterans was shameful.

The treatment we gave the veterans was shameful.  Don't believe me?  Ask
the veterans.  There's more stories out there than could fill a book.

>In my opinion, I believe that not ever a nation in the 
>whole history of Humanity acted more honorably and showed itself to be ahead, 
>way ahead, of the rest of humanity in seeing things for what they 
>were--killing as killing, and not as "the inccurring of collateral human 
>damage," as Bernard Shaw (who was pissing in his pants under a bed when he 
>was caught in the cross-fire in Baghdad) put it while talking about civilian 
>deaths that a bombing of some facility or other was bound to cause--as the
>people of America acted when they held each and every soldier who came
>back from Vietnam accountable.

I understand how you feel, and it is somewhat natural to feel this way.
However, you have to remember that the majority of people who went to Vietnam
went because their conscience told them it was the right thing to do.  I
don't agree with this, but it is hard to fault someone for obeying their
conscience.  When ex-soldiers were spit on, had eggs thrown at them, etc.
it simply implied that the people who were constantly screaming tolerance
showed little tolerance of their own.  Please don't look back at the 60's
through rose-colored glasses.  I disagree with American involvement in 
Vietnam, but I still have to admit that the way we treated the
Vets was one of the most shameful acts the American people have ever
comitted.  (And there is a decent-sized list)

>The American people of then were thinking:
>they did not get confused, they were thinking in terms of
>responsibility, and the artifices and contrivances of "the honor of the army" 
>and "the pledge of allegiance," and "dying for your country," did not fool them.

That crap doesn't fool me either.  However, why do you look down on people
who believe in these things?  Believe it or not, they are still decent people.
They just hold a different opinion from you and me.  Tolerance in most things
is golden and you'll catch more flies with honey than with vinegar.

>They saw that murder was murder, and that a soldier was before anything
>else a human being who needed to think for himself and act according
>to his conscience.  How far ahead of everybody else you were.  How
>wonderful a step humanity was making then--people who were starting
>to realize that War was evil, hell, and not the glory it was sung 
>throughout the ages.  And a world peopled by men who think like this 
>is bound to be a world of peace, a world safe of all wars.

You are quite correct about your feelings towards war.  However, you had better
step back and realize that most people at the time who were against the war
, were not against ALL war, but mostly against the VIETNAM war.  Whatever
the hippies might have told you, the average Joe who didn't like the war
saw nothing wrong with US involvement in WWII.  Where's the idealism and
Utopia?

(By the way, you're last sentence above is a grave error.  Even if all men
believed in the things you state, there would still be violence in the world.
This place will never be perfect and there is no Utopia.)

>And so, what a sad step backward the Gulf War was, where that very
>spark of hope that might have put you at the helm of a truly glorious
>new world order was so carelessly put out by a guilt that should have
>been pride in the first place.
>
>Ahmed Bouzid.

The Gulf war was a very sad thing, simply because a number of countries felt
it was necessary to get together and kill their brothers and sisters.  This
is where the tragedy lies.  Whether we praise or despise the people who were
responsible for this, the deed is done and cannot be reversed.  What good
would it do to treat the soldiers like dirt?  Will even one dead civilian
be brought back if we spit on a veteran?  What's the point, other than 
sowing more discontent and hatred in the world than there already is?
You see, that's what the REAL legacy of the Vietnam war was...

-Jon Anderson

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  Jon Anderson                                      jsast@unix.cis.pitt.edu
      "Won't you look down upon me Jesus, you gotta help me make a stand,
       You've just got to see me through another day.
       My body's aching and my time is at hand,
       And I won't make it any other way. "                 -James Taylor
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