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Importance: SEMASSU.EDU was changed to UMASSD.EDU on Aug 10, 1991
Priority: SEMASSU.BITNET was changed to UMASSD.BITNET on Oct 10, 1991
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.christia
Date:         Thu, 9 Apr 1992 11:49:00 EDT
Comments:     A VAX cluster with VMS V5.4-2, PMDF V3.2-19,
              JNET V3.5 & UCX V1.3A
From:         LIZ MOREAU <EMOREAU@UMASSD.BITNET>
Subject:      Re: Confirmation of the Spirit

>You raise some good issues, Liz.  I agree completely.  We should not take
>as final the word of anyone who claims to be an authority on interpreting
>the scriptures.

Definitely!  We should search the scriptures (Bible) ourselves and
pray to God to reveal to us what he wants us to know.  We don't need
an expert.

>  But, in view of the hundreds of Christian denominations
>and myriad interpretations of many of the fundamental truths taught in the
>Bible, the Lord has blessed us with his spokesmen to help us know which
>interpretation is correct.

I can agree with you here.  In the OT times, the priests were the only
ones who knew the Law.  They were the ones instructing fellow
believers what to do.  Since they were only human (even though they
were devoted) they misled the people who then turned to worship false
idols and false gods.  Since they didn't do a good job, our Lord sent
Jesus who then preached to all the true Word and died so that we may
ALL have salvation.  God sent his beloved Son so that we could all
know the truth and be forgiven for our sins.

>  The Lord's house is a house of order.  Truth is
>not a mass of confusion.  Even as the Israelites had prophets in olden
>times to help them know the truth, we have a modern prophet and twelve
>apostles to help us determine truth in our day.

Doug, Jesus fulfills this for us, not another human being.  The
Israelites had prophets because the Word wasn't written down.  They
had to rely on the words of other men and thats where they went wrong.
We can't repeat the same mistake.  If these very same men who the Law
was entrusted to printed out their interpretations, it still would of
been false.  That's why you can put your trust in a human being
(however annointed he may claim to be).

>But we are not expected to take even the prophet's word for ultimate truth
>without studying it out in our mind, and praying to the Lord for
>confirmation by the same Spirit that inspired the scriptures originally.

No, no, no.  You will stand for yourself before our Lord and answer
for your life.  You can't get up there and say, I was misled.  It
won't wash since we are given God's Word (note, not anyone else's) to
model our life after.  Read the scriptures and pray to God to
enlighten you and to give you wisdom to understand what you read.
The Lord said he would reveal His word to us if we just ask.  We don't
need anyone elses viewpoint.  To me this is not trusting in God to
know what He is doing.  We are saying Lord, you mean well and have a
lot of good ideas in that book, but I don't believe I can interpret
them for myself, I'll listen to someone else to do it for me.

>Yes, we will stand before the Lord and answer for ourselves, at the last
>day.  How much better we will stand, Liz, if we reach that Judgment Day
>without having been led astray by "every wind of doctrine."  Indeed, Paul
>taught us in Ephesians, chapter 4:

I can answer truthfully to this.  I don't put my trust in anyone or
anything but the Bible.  Its all we need.  I may stand before God with
sins in my life that I'm working on to change, but I can honestly say
I didn't follow anyone else but the Lord.

>          v11 And he gave some, _apostles_; and some, _prophets_; and
>     some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers;

They guide and they lead and they teach.  If it doesn't line up with
scripture they are considered false prophets and we are to rebuke
them.  That is why you have to decide for yourself just what the Bible
means.  That way you will know false doctrine when you see it.  You
can't follow along with anyone blindly.  On a personal note, my church
is now introducing doctrines I don't feel line up with scripture.  I
am standing up alone to speak out against this.  It is not easy by no
means, but I would rather stand up alone with God, then go along with
the crowd.

>          v14 _That we henceforth be no more_ children, _tossed to and
>     fro, and carried about with every wind of doctrine_, by the
>     sleight of men, and cunning craftiness, whereby they lie in wait
>     to deceive; [emphasis added]

This tells me that again, we have to know right from wrong and can't
trust anyone else to tell us.

>Liz, how wonderful it would be to realize we have apostles and prophets in
>these latter days to help us come to a unity of faith, don't you agree?

These apostles and prophets will not be telling us anything new, they
will just be expousing Biblical facts, if they are in fact genuine.

>He does want us to know more--to know the fullness of the Gospel.  He has
>made Bible #2 available to all, The Book of Mormon: Another Testament of
>Jesus Christ.  And He promises anyone who reads it with an open heart will
>know it to be His word.

No, he has not.  When Jesus came he preached to all - sinners, tax
collectors, the sick, the rich, the poor, and the apostles and
prophets.  He told us all we have to know.  There was never a reason
for another book.  That is saying that when He came he didn't get his
point across and therefore had to have an addendum.  In THE Bible, he
told us all we had to know.  There were no secrets.  Everything can be
known by all, no matter what their status in the community or church.
We weren't required to attain a level of holiness to complete secret
rituals that would enlighten us.  Everything was always in the open
for all to see, nothing was hidden.  Jesus loves us just the way we
are.  He made us didn't He?

>He left it to Joseph Smith, Liz, who didn't start a new church.  Rather, he
>restored the ancient Christian Church, with the fullness of the everlasting
>Gospel.

Doug, the church is the body of believers.  JS didn't start the body
of believers.

>And the Lord has sent His apostles in these latter days to ALL people,
>just as in ancient times.  It's true, Liz.  Allow the possibility in your
>heart; ask the Lord in humility, and He will reveal His truth to you, too.
>I have done just that; and I know it to be true.

He has.  He reveals His truth to me everyday when I pray and read the
Bible.

He hasn't revealed another Bible to me yet!

>I sense the sincerity of most of the participants on Christia, too, Liz.
>And I appreciate their willingness to try to understand different faiths
>better.  I'm pleased you expressed your desire to understand these matters.
>I sense your sincere desire to promote peace and good will among all of
>God's children.

Thanks Doug for your post!

                                        God Bless,

                                        Liz
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