From: ustai@memstvx1.memst.edu
Newsgroups: soc.culture.asean
Subject: Re: racial harmony, not a dream...
Date: 16 Oct 92 18:29:27 -0600
Organization: Memphis State University

In article <10792759.6.719207410@eng2.eng.monash.edu.au>, 10792759@eng2.eng.monash.edu.au (YEW YAP) writes:
> In article <1992Oct15.072359.14652@newsroom.utas.edu.au> you write:
>>From: u907736@postoffice.utas.edu.au (Edmund Chia)
>>Subject: Re: racial harmony, not a dream...
>>Date: Thu, 15 Oct 1992 07:23:59 GMT
>>In article <3345@peking.gdwb.oz.au>, mlt@gdwb.oz.au (Mee Teng) writes:
>>> 
>>> siong@fraser.sfu.ca (Siong Heng Chan) writes:
>>> >Stadium Negara hugging their neighbours, regardless of race, hugging
>>> >strangers, congratulating each other etc...  That one brief moment,
>>> >everyone was one race, MALAYSIANS.  I'm not really good at describing
>>> >a situation, but I think you get the idea...  The real situation
>>> >is a hundred times better than how I can describe here...
[left alone cos I liked it]
>>> 
>>> What can I say ? except that you are TOO naive, ignrant & simple
>>> minded !! Obviously you have not stepped out of your shell yet. This
>>> is fact and not meant to be an insult. 

        Simple minded, and that is not an insult?  Yeah, right.  You obviously
feel very strongly about this.  Why do you say racial harmony is a dream?

>>>  Of course, who dosen't ?? But does that mean anything ?? That is your
>>>  side of the story. 

	It obviously is his side of story.  What's yours?  He backed up his
side.  Your turn.

>>> It is a nightmare.

	Again, why do you say so?  Note that I am not agreeing or disagreeing. 
However I think it is certainly better than waving parangs...  Still, convince
me otherwise.

>>> You sure have. Secure & safe under the shell !
>>
>>I believe Siong Heng Chan was not being naive, ignorant or simple-minded.
>>I believe racial harmony in Malaysia is not simply a dream and certainly
>>not a nightmare.
>>I believe people who hope for and are working towards secure and harmonious
>>race relations are not hiding under a shell.
>>Good on you Siong Heng Chan for seeing the side of race relations which is
>>not clouded by prejudice and well-worn cynicism, for looking towards the
>>a better future in spite of a bloody past.
>>
>>Edmund
> 
> I think that Meng Teng's comments are more justified. From history, there is 
> no such thing as racial harmony. Human history had been a struggle between 

	Do realise that from history, there's no <insert PC stuff/good
feelings stuff> anything, because things change.  What we want is change for
the better.  Right now it may be bad, but it certainly improved from 1963,
didn't it?  And if you want a historical view of racial harmony, look at the
babas and nyonyas.

> different races to achieve domination over others. We have now come to a 

	Same thing can be said of individuals.  Don't we call it a rat race? 
So does this mean we are all shitty people?  Probably so, but again, we can
think, and can change for the better.

> stage where various races are forced by circumstances to co-exist together, 
> as the situation is in Malaysia. That does not mean that they can live 

	No, not forced by cirumstances.  Each of the 3 major races found their
own way there, basically because they wanted to be there.  No guns were pointed
at their heads.  In fact, many of the early chinese immigrants had to pay thru
their nose to go to that place "down there".  And currently, I believe a person
can leave the place if he/she doesn't like it there...

> truly in harmony. The just tolerate each other because they know the 
> consequences if they don't (riots). This division is further aggravated by 

	No, they know the consequences if they don't ($$$).  No matter what
happens, the bottom line always matters...

> the multitudes of cultures and religions. As long as these factors exists, 
> different races will never live in true harmony with each other. Note that 

	No, I for one, believe that diversity is good.  If everything is
homogenous, it will be such a boring world.  And imagine, no members of the
opposite sex to talk to.  Wouldn't that be a dreary world?

> even in USA, where the blacks have adopted the culture and religion of 
> the white man, racial harmony is certainly NOT a reality. I don't see how 

	I don't think the blacks have assimilated the whites cultures
completely.  Have you ever been to the two churches?  Very different.  I
believe there are a couple of good books on the assimilation of white culture
by the blacks.  Unfortunately I have forgotten their names.  In the books, the
authors believe that the blacks superimpose/graft the whites culture onto their
own (referring to the slavery period).  So they didn't "adopt" the whites
culture.  And while racial harmony is not a reality in USA, you must agree that
it certainly is better than before.

> racial harmony can be achieved in Malaysia.

	When we learn that multitudes of color and beliefs are actually quite
beneficial.  When we learn to put others before self.  When <insert lots of PC
stuff> etc etc.  Ie when man becomes perfect.  In the mean time, we can just
try very hard.

> Maybe if they abolish all religions and eliminate all cultural differences, 

	That would be a stupid mistake.  Again, without diversity, a society
will only stagnate.

> Malaysia MAY have a slim chance towards the creation of a truly harmonious 
> nation.

	That's pretty pessimistic.  Also if we are all one homogenous people,
then the concept of racial harmony doesn't apply here.

> As I observe the situation now, most Chinese in Malaysia still separate 
								 ^^^^^^^^
> themselves culturally from the Malays. Most find the very thought of mixed 
  ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
	Of course.  Two different cultures.  However we are learning about each
other more and more (could be just govt propaganda tho)

> marriages with Malays repugnant, especially if they must convert to Islam.
                        ^^^^^^^^^
	Sorry, have to disagree with you here...  Many of my chinese friends
have found (quick, name me that pretty 8pm news anchor for TV3 <- that girl :))
to be, ahem, quite attractive...
	I myself have found many malay girls to be beautiful.  However, I don't
believe in th Quran yet, so I don't think I will be marrying any one of
them.... (four wives tho... decisions, decisions... :) :))

> There is no basis to claim racial harmony is an achievable goal in the near 
> future in Malaysia.

	And what platform are you coming from?  From a historical context,
racial relationships seem to be improving, especially in view of the fact that
there has been no riots in the past 20 or so years.

> A realistic guy,

	A realistic guy will see the good points as well as the bad points. 
And to paraphrase the author of "Swimming with the Sharks without being eaten
Alive" '... calls themselves pessimists...  they prefer the term realists'.
	Ciao.

-Tai