From: kim@i5160e.nrl.navy.mil (Elisabeth Kim)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.german
Subject: Serbians vs. Croatians (was Re: Germany's aggression against Turkey)
Date: 8 Apr 92 13:45:08 GMT

In article <gdrIc1u00iUyI8QX0E@andrew.cmu.edu> mf0w+@andrew.cmu.edu (Michel Fougeres) writes:
>contrary, to-day's Germany is almost the only European power that has
>the moral courage to defend a horribly persecuted people, the Kurds. 
>Just as it was the only big power that had the courage to try to stop
>the bloodbath created by the imperialistic Serbs in former Yougoslavia. 
>France and England were looking the other way and Bush wanted to keep
>artificial Yougoslavia together at any cost, even if it meant some kind
>of slavery for the Croats and other minorities.
>

>Bush was also too ignorant of history (or too well paid by somebody) (or
>maybe he just lacked the moral courage) to prevent the Serbs from trying
>to take over all of Croatia and slaughtering the Croats in the process. 
>Thank God Genscher and Kohl finally put their foot down, and thank God
>now Germany tries to defend the Kurds.  To me those actions show that
>Germany DID learn a lot from its mistakes of the past and is ready now
>to take its rightful place as a big benevolent (and ultra civilized)
>Western power.

I am sorry if I happen to reopen an old debate, (i have only been reading
internet news for a little while and haven't seen the topic come up before
now, although i am sure it must have been debated in this newsgroup a few
months ago).  But, I felt the need to put in my $0.02. So here goes: 

While I agree that the Serbians are no angels themselves, I was under the
impression that they were quite willing to let the Croats have their indepen-
dence.  I understood that the problem that they had with Croatian independence
was the placement of the border.  The current borders of Croatia are those
imposed by the former Yugoslavian communist regime.  Quite arbitrary, no 
historical significance to it.  These borders include a region which is   
inhabited by mostly serbians (i understand it is somewhere in the %90s).
These Serbians did not and do not want to be part of Croatia, not only 
because they feel emotionally part of the rest of Yugoslavia, but also because
they are afraid they might get massacred by the Croatians as they were under 
the fascist regime during WWII.  This fear was hightened when the Croatians
passed laws which in effect made second class citizens out of all non-Croatians.
It also didn't help to allay the Serbians' fear when the Croatians raised their
flag.  This flag apparently seems to be the equivalent of the German swastika.

I was under the impression that the Serbians did not want to let the Croatians
have their independence until this issue was resolved, thinking that it would
be much harder to settle this conflict in favor of the Serbians inside of the
current borders of Croatia once Croatia had been officially recognized.    

I assume the issue is a little more complex than that.  I assume that a lot
of economic issues play a role here, too.  But i understood that this was the
official reason for this "war".

Please, correct my ignorance, if necessary. I received my information from 
NPR, which I listen to regularily.  A while ago they had an interview with 
some Serbian political activist, who gave out all this information.  I realize
that this is pretty one-sided information, but i have not heard anything to
the contrary since, event though the press here also seems to be in favor of
the Croatians (if not as much as in Germany). 

Oh, one interesting side-line. I talked to some older german woman about this.
She was quite in favor of the Serbians.  During our discussion, this open 
minded woman suddenly had a flash of insight.  She said: "Oh my gosh, i just 
realized something!  When I was a child (she was 10 years old at the end of 
WW II), we always heard about those barbarian and uncultured Serbs. "
The Serbians at that time were on the side of the allies. Do you think that 
this german bias toward the Croatians still stems from WW II, when Croatia
was allied with Germany?

If you want to keep this discussion of the net to avoid repetition of earlier
ones, please e-mail.

 
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email to:        | My professors are not at fault.  | First things first.  
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                 | I am not a grad student yet.     | in that order.  - who