From: devin@frodo.Colorado.EDU (Sonja Orlavski)
Newsgroups: alt.transgendered
Subject: Re: Me? Clueless? Naaah :)
Date: 16 Dec 92 23:14:52 GMT
Organization: University of Colorado, Boulder
X-Newsreader: Tin 1.1 PL5

Roy S. Rapoport (rsr@soda.berkeley.edu) wrote:
: Umm, I dunno ... I don't _think_ I'm trangendered, but I don't even
: _understand_ it, so how can I know it?
:
: What is a TG? Saying "It is a person who self-labels as a woman," to me,
: isn't enough.  I can _accept_ that.  I can _respect_ that.  I can call this
: person by her chosen name, refer to her as 'she', and accept her as a woman
: 
: But there's this frustrating barrier of understanding that stands between me
: and TG.  To me, accepting TG isn't enough.  I want to understand it, if I
: can.  I will acquiesce if you tell me I cannot, but I would like to try ...
: 
: How does one 'self-identify' as a woman? 
: What is the female mentality?

D.Glenn made a good point earlier that applies.  People have certain things
that they just accept about the world, and tend to be surprised when other
people don't feel/act/think that way.  Those fundamental assumptions, the
axioms of one's being if you will, are very difficult to explain to someone
else.

Someone somewhat glibly responded to your question 'How does one
self-identify as a woman' with the statement "I am a woman."  Sounds kinda
silly, but that's about it.  When one of your fundamental axioms about
your world is that your gender is such-and-such (male, female, both, neither,
other, whatever), it becomes very difficult to explain why.  It just is.

: We're getting into gender roles, and I'm not sure how related they are to
: this issue, because I'm not really even clear on them.  

Gender roles and gender identification are related, but not the same.
Gender roles are society's ideas about how someone of a particular gender
are supposed to conduct themselves.  Gender identification is internal,
the fundamental statement to oneself of "I am a man" or "I am a woman" or
"I am both" (etc.).  Usually gender identity and gender role agree.  However,
there are physiological/genetic females who do not fit the feminine gender
role who do identify as female, and the same thing with males.  Not following
gender role is often not an indication of transgenderism.

Transgenderism is a mismatch of some sort between your physical/genetic
sex (which is for all practical purposes strictly binary, male/female)
and your gender identity (which, IMVNSHO, is not that simple, and thus many
people could qualify as transgender by this definition...).

: What does it mean to you, women, who have had to realize that you're women
: despite your body?

It means that I have to go through a lot of trouble just to feel comfortable
living in my body.  :(  Whether that means SRS or other coping mechanisms.

It also means that I tend to understand both males and females better than
either males or females.  That understanding is often helpful.
With the difficulties always come the gifts.

				-Deb

--
Deborah Parks (RP90)  (SotM 7/91)  DoD #0034  deb@boulder.colorado.edu   ------
"It's being both that's a bitch."                                      --\--- /
"I wanted to take my brain to hell and back and see what I had left."  \  \ //
"This howling in the distance, it's a captivating sound.                \  \/
        Can't tell if it's ecstasy or pain..."  -DW                      \/
Newsgroups: alt.transgendered