From: efk00@cd.amdahl.com (Eddie Kieger)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: AR-15/sporter info request summary
Date: 8 Apr 92 20:27:04 GMT
Organization: Amdahl Corporation, Sunnyvale CA


Earlier, I asked for recommendations for 5.56 rifles (.223 Remington) similar
to the AR-15 sporter HBAR. I also saiod I would summarize to the newsgroup.

The following are the various pieces of mail I got.  Thanx to all who 
responded.

I am keeping the included responses anonymous, even though my post DID say
that I was going to post answers to the net.......

Here is the question:

#Im in the market for a 5.56 semi auto that can be legally purchased in 
#California. I would ideally like a Colt sporter HBAR, but with the recent
#Chap. 11 filing, I think the prices may rise out of my range.
#
#I was wondering if anyone can recommend any other good 5.56 semis.
#
#I would really like something that takes AR-15/M-16 magazines RELIABLY
#and has a heavy barrel (accuracy like the colt HBAR)
#
#I have heard about rifles by Eagle Arms and Olympic Arms.
#
#Comments?? Suggestions??
#
#Any input is appreciated, and I will summarize responses on the net.
#
#Thanx, Eddie
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As for a Colt rifle, you can still buy them, but the price will
be a bit higher than last year, when they were available for ~600 wholesale.
Semantics is very important here. An AR15 is no longer sold, but the Sporter
or the Match Sporter is legal to buy and own. Even if the Colt's aren't 
around anymore, not likely, there are still other manufacturers that make 
rifles like the Sporter. Eagle Arms and Olympic arms are two good examples.
The Eagle, I've been told from folks who own one, is better made than 
Colt. 

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Choosing which rifle to buy depends on what you want out of it. If you 
intend to shoot competition, I'm of no help. If you want something that
will retain a lot of it's value, a Colt will do this. Most of my shooting
with this type of rifles is with the M16A2 in the Marine Corps and I 
can say that the Sporter Match is quite accurate, not that the M16A2 is 
a bad shooter.

The Eagle Arms rifle costs a bit more than a Colt. The wholesale price
is comparable, but about 100 bucks higher, the last time I looked.
The Colt Match Sporter, which is the model I have, is basically a semi-auto
M16A2, but with a heavy barrel. The Colt Sporter Government model has a 
tapered barrel like the M16A2. Then Colt introduced the Lightweight model,
or something like that. It's a semiauto version of the M16A2, but with a
shorter barrel, I think.  

Eagle Arms is considered to be higher in quality than Colt by some 
people because Eagle Arms has gunsmiths putting together their guns. Many
of the parts in their guns are new parts, but they also have surplus government
parts. This situation might have changed since when I last looked at the
rifles. Also, I recalled seeing the Eagle Arms rifles sold as kits where
they include all the parts you'll need to build a rifle, and charge less than
for a completed rifle. My friend told me that they also have good customer
relations and will solve any problems a customer might have if a kit is 
incomplete or parts don't fit. Colts are only sold assembled.

 It'll help to look at a copy of Shotgun News and call some of the 
distributors that advertise in there and ask if they have any Colt
Sporters and 
how much they cost. The distributors might ask if you are a dealer at
which
time you tell them yes, otherwise they wouldn't tell you the wholesale
price.
This is a strange policy of the distributors since no one besides FFL
holders 
can order firearms.

If you order a kit, it's not very difficult to put together a rifle. There's 
only one special tool and two guages needed.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Eddie

The best AR15 available today is the XM15E2 made by Bushmaster
Firearms / Quality Parts in Windham, Maine. Their product is identical
to a MIL-spec M16A2 (except no selective fire, only semi-auto) in
every way. Its pretty expensive though, around $700-800. BFI/QP is one
of the three (Colt and FN are the other two) companies to have
produced M16's for the U.S. Gov't. Len.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------
It is well known that Quality Parts produced the best AR-15 semi-auto
rifles.  Colt quality in recent days are not too great.

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# > It is well known that Quality Parts produced the best AR-15 semi-auto
# > rifles.  Colt quality in recent days are not too great.
# 
# But do they make a rifle available here in the Peoples Republic of 
# California?? (i.e. no bayonet lug, 5 round clip, AND not on the 
# "illegal list"???)

Quality Parts rifles come complete with the "evil" stuff (bayonet lug and
30-round magazines).  However, since they are not on the "black" list,
they are legal in California (last I heard about a year ago).

Call you local gun store.  They should be able to tell you whether there
was any new legislation against QP, EA or the such.

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{ response about whether QP guns are legal in CA....}

No problem. Yeah, the standard XM15E2 comes with a bayonet lug and a
30 round magazine. QP/BFI also sells a semi-auto AR15 carbine *with*
telescoping stock (for some reason, Colt won't sell these to civilians
- police only). Here are other alternatives you may consider:

0.) Talk to QP/BFI - they may be able to sell you an XM15E2 without a
bayonet lug and with a 5 round mag.
1.) Build your own AR15 from a kit (see Shotgun News - 
quite a few places sell these - the kits are cheap, but are kind of
tedious to assemble and could be dangerous if you don't headspace it
properly.)

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In article <52098@mimsy.umd.edu> you write:
#
#I have heard about rifles by Eagle Arms and Olympic Arms.

I have an Eagle Arms EA-15E2 HBAR; it's an excellent rifle.
Very accurate and very reliable.  You can contact Eagle Arms at
309-799-5619 for a sales/info brochure.  If you have a more
specific question in mind "fire away."

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Eagle Arms EA-15 HBAR.  A friend has one for sale, very slightly
used.  (He has been out of work for a while, and needs to liquidate
some assets).  I have one of my one, and I will NEVER sell it.
I've shot .45" groups at 100 yards using SS109 ammo, and .75"
groups with factory 55 gr. ammo.  Every part interchanges with
an AR-15 HBAR, and it's not on the Assault Weapons list here
in California.

{anybody who is interested in the friend's # to buy the gun, contact me}
{  at efk00@cd.amdahl.com }

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The eagle arms and other manufacturers all use the  same magazines. The 
AR15/M16 magazines are all the same and they are cheap, since there's a lot
of surplus of them. If you want to order an Colt Sporter or some rifle like'
it, then look into Shotgun News. There are a lot of dealers that advertise in
that magazine. I ordered my Colt Match Sporter from a friend who has a FFL 
so I got my rifle for wholesale + 10%. Now I build AR15's for a hobby and 
sell them to friends. 

If you want to buy a AR15 type rifle, there's no rush on buying one unless
you really want a Colt. The rush with the Colts isn't from Colt going
Chapter 11, it's from the assault rifle law that took effect on January 1.
The Attorney General office is reviewing the law and until they come out
with a decision on the AR15 type rifles, you can still buy Colt Sporters.
The Eagle Arms and Olympic Arms rifles seem to be exempt from the 
new law.

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well, kinda, sorta, yeah, you are gonna get screwed...
	now that the news has broken out there will be a "run" on anything made
by Colt.   
Your best bet is to find a friend who collects them and buy one from
him... (since your from  
California like me, you would have to find somebody witha "Sporter"
(ar-15 are not leagal  
to transfer anymore) and beg and moan him to "give it away" to ya. :)
	Or you can join the crowds :)
	Or if you don't mind driving to Fremont, I can give you a name and
phone number of  
a friend of mine who could get you deal (it depends on what he has on
stock). Not likely
	OR (this is the big one)  you can get an AR-15 that is made by some
body else (i.e.  
NOT having "Colt" stamped on the side does NOT bother you)  SGW makes
really good  
recivers, Eagle Arms makes OUTSTANDING (according to the gun rags
:)Match grades,  
and PWA makes reliable guns as well....

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Incidentally, I did buy a Colt HBAR sporter, and got it for $680 + tax and
california extortion fee ($14) thru a local guy with an FFL that I met at a 
gun show.  Haven't got it yet, but I'm looking forward to it.