HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: dig@pro-iisysops.cts.com (Doug Granzow)
Newsgroups: rec.games.pinball
Subject: Re: LW3 - Just a note
Date: 5 Sep 92 15:54:10 GMT
Organization: ProLine [pro-iisysops]

oday@lobster.gsfc.nasa.gov  (Orin Day) writes:

>In article <chupchup.715597895@piggy> chupchup@ferkel.ucsb.edu (Robert Earl)  
>writes:
>> The
>> flippers went dead and I watched helplessly as my third ball sail past
>> them.
>> 
>> Well, guess Data East still makes stupid software.  Why do they shut
>> down the flippers when you lose a ball?  It doesn't make sense.
>
>Actually, it sort of does make sense (from an operators perspective,
>unfortunately).
>

But see, that's where the bug is.  It should be painfully obvious to the
software that there is still a ball on the playfield, since targets are still
being hit.

If the pinball machine has to send out another ball after one gets stuck, it
should wait a few seconds after a drain to see if there is still a ball out
there, since the first *could* get dislodged. If any scoring happens
immediately after a drain, then play should continue.

I've had this happen to me on every Data East games I've ever played.  On
most Williams games, I've never even seen a ball get stuck, so I don't know
if a Williams (or other) pin would act the same way. DE games seem be good at
getting the ball into the air, making it easy to get it stuck somewhere.
From: kjohnson@csugrad.cs.vt.edu (Keith Johnson)
Newsgroups: rec.games.pinball
Subject: Re: T2 weirdness
Date: 5 Sep 92 07:44:17 GMT
Organization: Virginia Tech Computer Science Dept, Blacksburg, VA

I guess I didn't make myself clear enough...  To be very very specific, here
is what happened:

I shot 2 targets at once to start the second multiball.  I locked one ball
right away into the skull.  Jackpot = 1 x 5.7 M or so.  Played with the 2
other balls for about 20-30 seconds (jackpot at this time up to about 6.3).
Shoot the 2nd ball into the video mode lock at the top (escape route, which
was worth "multiball" at the time) and lost the third ball about the exact
same time.  "Multiball" stops flashing (meaning I got that award), and the
game says "Jackpot multiplied 2 x 10,000,000".  At this point I get to shoot
the gun, and make the shot, and then the third ball comes shooting out.
Please note that during this whole time, autofire was NEVER on, because it
only comes on for the first multiball and then never again (for multiball).
(This is the same as HSII, BTW.)

In summary, what probably happened was that since technically I should have
had another chance at jackpot, but since I was ALREADY in multiball, it
just tacked on another 5 M to the jackpot (I guess the base jackpot score
cap is 10 M).  And since there wasn't a good time to re-release the third
ball, it just waited until my jackpot shot to throw it back out.

ANYWAY, I'm pretty sure I understood what happened and why, I just thought
it was kinda strange.  They certainly did think of all possibe cases in
their software design!  (Wish I could say the same for DE, but they're
getting better.)

keith
-- 
|kjohnson@csugrad.cs.vt.edu|\\\XXXXX///|"The players tried to take the field, |
|.....Keith P. Johnson.....| \XXXXXXX/ | The marching band refused to yield.  |
|.1711 Whipple Dr. Apt. 11.| /XXXXXXX\ | Do you recall what was revealed      |
|...Blacksburg, VA 24060...|///XXXXX\\\| The day the music died?" -Don MacLean|
From: overturf@bigbootay.sw.stratus.com (Dallas Overturf)
Newsgroups: rec.games.pinball
Subject: Re: getting inside that coin door
Keywords: coin door, operators, self-test
Date: 4 Sep 92 21:12:11 GMT
Organization: Stratus Computer, Software Engineering

In article <chupchup.715596141@piggy> chupchup@ferkel.ucsb.edu (Robert Earl) writes:
>
>Well, I've finally had it after tonight.  Is it just San Diego, or do
>-all- pinball operators have such a hard time believing that a pin
>failed a self-test?
>
>Here's the thing.  I go into the arcade, look at the Williams or Bally
>machine, and notice the trademark "dot" after "Credits 0" that means
>the machine is on the blink (however minor the problem is).  Go up to
>the nice operator and say, "there's a problem with machine X, could
>you do me a favor and self-test it?"  Blank stares.  "what's wrong
>with it?" "looks fine to me."  I have people play entire games while
>going "nothing wrong here!".
>
>It's very simple to open the darned coin door and press "enter" or
>"advance" or whatever.  It tells you exactly what's wrong with the
>machine.  But you need an operator.

Use to be they told you up front what was wrong; unfortch
operators did not like that.  So that nice absolutely 
perfect feature IMHO was removed and replaced with a simple "dot".

You want it back; write to WMS.  They had it right the first time
but bent under pressure.  WMS address is in the FAQ and you should
copy Marketing and Service.

Second when you see that and the operator
will not check it for you (or cannot due to a lack of a key in many
places), I recommend you play the game.  If trip over the problem
you can request or demand (depends on your personality and that of
the location as well which way you should do it) your money be refunded.
Newsgroups: rec.games.pinball
From: sigma@picasso.ipl.rpi.edu (Kevin Martin)
Subject: Re: LW3 - Just a note
Date: Mon, 7 Sep 1992 22:40:16 GMT

gleeson@mundil.cs.mu.OZ.AU (Red Mountain) writes:
>In <1992Sep4.015615.87291@ns1.cc.lehigh.edu> tek0@ns1.cc.lehigh.edu (TOYOTA ERIC KOMATSU) writes:
[ball stuck at kickback]
>This seems quite common on recent DE pins. I've had it happen on Star Trek
>and Hook, and on Star Trek, it even got to the point that I could give the
>machine the right sort of jolt for the kicker hole to "catch" the ball.

I did this just the other day on a High Speed II.

-- 
Kevin Martin
sigma@ipl.rpi.edu
"We're gonna need another Timmy!"
Newsgroups: rec.games.pinball
From: gleeson@mundil.cs.mu.OZ.AU (Red Mountain)
Subject: Re: The right stuff
Organization: Computer Science, University of Melbourne, Australia
Date: Fri, 11 Sep 1992 05:21:11 GMT

In <1992Sep9.150943.11486@linus.mitre.org> hal@gateway.mitre.org (Hal Feinstein) writes:

Sorry if this seems all over the place, but, hey, random musings are like 
that :-)

>Lets boil this down to a few questions: (1) What makes a game exciting.

I think for most Pinball Players (tm) what makes a game exciting is a 
combination of things -- good game play, depth of rules and a variety of shot
choices, and a fun and interesting game. 

I think there are a few things to note in all the hubub about licenses, etc:
The move towards licensed themes and the massive technological advances in
pinball happened at around the same time. So many associate all the bangs
and whizzes with licensing. There have been a few non-licensed themes, 
e.g. Funhouse, Party Zone, The Getaway and Surf 'n' Safari, that haven't
had licensed themes, but still had all the elements described above that
make them exciting.

>(2) What makes the public want to play a game (hence good for the operator)
>and profitable for the maker.

For first time players, it is definitely the artwork and general "flashiness"
of the machine, and in more recent times, this translates to licensed themes.

Pinball companies are in business to make money. That's their bottom line.
But it's not alll they aim for. To make money, they must produce good games
that attract the inexperienced or first time players, because let's face it,
nobody really makes money out of real Pinball Players (tm). I'll regularly
play for a couple of hours on one credit, and from the manufacturer/operator's
point of view, this is not good. But the games like Addams Family that
attract first timers and Pinball Players are getting the best of both worlds.
They make money out of the first timers, and get the repeat business of 
the experienced ones. Pinball Players will always prefer Williams pins
because the're the only ones to consitently produce games with a lot
of depth and complexity (Sorry, Premier gets a nod for S'n'S, but it's
not entirely their fault that they aren't the size of Wms or DE -- thanks
mainly to Wms (boo Wms)). 

>(3) Must a game be tied to a pop-culture marketing gimmik to make money?

If you ask DE, they'll probably say no, but actions speak louder than words.
My answer is no, but that doesn't mean that you should never build licensed
machines.

>(4) Will a straight forward minimalist game ever compare with TAF for excitment
> and profit.

In a word, no. On both counts. How could it?

Marty.
----------------------=============***O***=============-------------------------
Martin J. Gleeson   | Computer Science, Melbourne Uni, Oz |    ...  __o    Outta
gleeson@cs.mu.oz.au |  E Pluribus Unix  |  BIKE  IT   !!  |  ...   -\<,       my
" We gladly feast on those who would subdue us." - Addams |  ....(_)/(_)..  way!
 "I can't give you brains, but I can give you a diploma." - The Wizard of Oz
----------------------=============***O***=============-------------------------
Newsgroups: rec.games.pinball
From: jrapacz@uumeme.chi.il.us (Justin Rapacz)
Subject: NEW GAMES!!!
Organization: UUMEME Public Access UNIX
Date: Thu, 10 Sep 92 00:06:02 GMT

Anyone know of some new pinball machine games that I would be able to obtain 
new, or are there any collectors out there who know where I can get Funhouse
in EXTREEMLY GREAT condition?
From: yyz@cbnewsf.cb.att.com (donald.w.coons)
Newsgroups: rec.games.pinball
Subject: Re: looking for books
Date: 15 Sep 92 01:15:41 GMT
Organization: AT&T

In article <lba4drINNg49@jethro.Corp.Sun.COM> jrt@Eng.Sun.COM writes:
>Somone posted the name and phone number of a place where
>one could purchase all these wonderful pinball books we keep
>hearing about.
>
>Yes I saved the number.
>
>Yes I lost the saved number.
>
>Can someone please send it to me?!? Or post it. I'm a regular here.
>
>Thanks so much!
>
>joel
>jrt@eng.sun.com

The place for all the books is AMR publishing Company, P.O. Box 3007
Arlington, WA 98223 (206) 659-6434 FAX (206) 659-5994. They take orders
via phone with credit card. Turnaround on orders is about one week.

Don Coons
dwc@wnb3b2.att.com
Newsgroups: rec.games.pinball
From: walkie@netcom.com (Benjamin Wayne Witz)
Subject: Re: The Getaway: Supercharger total?
Date: Tue, 15 Sep 92 08:39:27 GMT
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services (408 241-9760 guest)

It would be great though to be able to collect that 250M total
on SuperCharger :)

My question though: What's the highest value anyone's made
on a single supercharger ramp? As you may (or may not) know,
SuperCharger ramp during supercharger is 5M+ per loop...and
I've been able to run it up all the way to 30M with one shot
up the ramp (with shots of 5M, 10M, ... during the round)

-- 
-------------------------------------------------------
Benjamin W. Witz (WalkieT)   |        walkie@netcom.com
Portage, MI                  |             (616)3276419
-------------------------------------------------------
Newsgroups: rec.games.pinball
From: brady@sed.stel.com (Sean Brady)
Subject: Personal to Steve Pazar
Organization: Stanford Telecom, SED, Reston
Distribution: usa
Date: Thu, 3 Sep 92 00:24:51 GMT

Sorry about the wasted bandwidth, but I've lost his address.

Ouch... oops, sorry about the lack of response.  I am in the process
of sending you the $4.  My apologies for the delay, and thanks again
for your help.

Sean

******************************************************************************
*           Sean Brady              * Mary meets dad (Part 1)                *
*    DoD# 1001001 - '82 Seca 750    *  Doctor - "Mary, this is your daddy."  *
*     "Beware of Tipper Gore"       *  Mary - "WAAAAAAAAAAA!!!"              *
******************************************************************************
*    Disclaimer: They only pay me for my work, not my opinions.              *
******************************************************************************

-- 
******************************************************************************
*           Sean Brady              * Mary meets dad (Part 1)                *
*    DoD# 1001001 - '82 Seca 750    *  Doctor - "Mary, this is your daddy."  *
*     "Beware of Tipper Gore"       *  Mary - "WAAAAAAAAAAA!!!"              *
From: blowfish@carina.unm.edu (rON.)
Newsgroups: rec.games.pinball
Subject: Re: The right stuff
Date: 10 Sep 92 06:34:03 GMT
Organization: University of New Mexico, Albuquerque

In article <1992Sep9.150943.11486@linus.mitre.org> hal@gateway.mitre.org (Hal Feinstein) writes:
>I'm sure this  will get a lot of flame mail but here goes:
>Why do I bring this up?  Well, the pingame manufacturers seem to require each 
>new machine to be tied to some rock, sports and now sci-fi (Dr Who) personality.
>I'm sure they pay good bucks to get the rights to do this but is it really 
>necessary? 

This is why you play pinball, and is why you're not a marketing expert.
Kids nationwide are pumping quarters into Simpsons machines nationwide-
it was a huge marketing success. From a business standpoint, Simpsons
was an excellent machine.
From a >pinball players< standpoint, it sucked. :)

Lets look at reality here- Data East's market success with stuff like
Simpsons or TMNT, has allowed it to start to build (or try to build) some
quality into their machines, instead of generic plastic crap.
r.
From: buzz@apple.com. (Steve Bollinger)
Newsgroups: rec.games.pinball
Subject: Re: The right stuff
Date: 11 Sep 92 18:13:05 GMT
Followup-To: rec.games.pinball
Distribution: na
Organization: Apple Computer Inc.

In article <BuDBDC.K12@csugrad.cs.vt.edu>, kjohnson@csugrad.cs.vt.edu
(Keith Johnson) wrote:
> 
> There was a game out by Bally I believe that let you change settings.  It
> had a pool theme, and you could choose from 3 different pool games.  At
> least I'm pretty sure abouut this, since I didn't play it, just saw it.
> 
> keith

Yeah, that's right, it was a sequel to eight ball deluxe.
I think it was called "Eight Ball Champion", and you could select 8-ball,
9-ball or straight pool at the start. Each played a little different.

-Steve Bollinger
From: tyager@maxx.UUCP (Tom Yager)
Newsgroups: rec.games.pinball
Subject: Re: Gone Fishin'
Keywords: Take the catch home for Christmas
Date: 15 Sep 92 08:17:15 GMT
Organization: New Hampshire Public Access UNIX

In article <6946@tekig7.PEN.TEK.COM>, jerryc@tekig7.PEN.TEK.COM (Jerry C Carathers) writes:
> Over the weekend, I finally had my first opportunity to play Fish Tales. I
> really like it. It's definitely not as good as TAF or T2, but it has a unique
> feel that works.

I like it better than T2, but I'm down on adversarial themes right now. I just
wanna have fun, dammit, without having to kill something or have the pops make
gunshot noises. Perhaps this will pass, but for now, I'm in the mood for some
old-fashioned, silly pinball. The universe can save itself; I want to play.
Fish Tales looks like just the foolish indulgence I seek.

> So what's the general concensus on this piece? Am I the only pinhead foolish
> enough to plunk down $2.9K for it?

I may not be a general consensus, but I'll offer my opinion anyhow.

I'm waiting for the run to start myself. I was almost moved to swap my T2 for
a TAF, but I've already played hundreds of games on that piece in public--it's
getting a little old on me (terrific game, though). No, my mind's 92% made up.
Arnie gets traded in for a casting reel with a 250-pound attachment.

> 		 How Big Was It...

...dat's de biggest feesh I ever saw!
(dat's also the only thing I could hear of the Fish Tales proto I played a
couple of months ago)

> 		 Jerry (Mr. Pinball) Carathers

Always fun to hear from you.
(ty)
-- 
Tom Yager, BYTE Multimedia Lab Director
           Author, Addison-Wesley UNIX programming book (Summer, 1991)
           Author, Harcourt Brace Jovanovich multimedia book (Fall, 1992)
           decvax!maxx!tyager, maxx!tyager@bytepb.byte.com
From: pazar@hpnmdla.sr.hp.com (Steve Pazar)
Date: Thu, 10 Sep 1992 20:31:59 GMT
Subject: FOR SALE: Bally KISS pin...
Organization: Hewlett-Packard, Santa Rosa, CA
Newsgroups: rec.games.pinball

Fellow Pinheads,
  I've decided to reduce the number of toys by one (due to LOTS of
  prodding from my wifee). As the title says, its a Bally KISS pin circa
  1979. It is in good to excellent overall condition. The backglass is
  flawless, no fading scratches, cracked paint. The playfield has two
  small (easily re-touched) places where the paint is worn partially
  through. The largest is .75 X .25 inches. The cabinet has a couple
  of scratches, and some of the orange paint is slightly faded. It is 
  in excellent working condition, and includes the original service
  manual. Price is $800 (firm), or will consider trades (please don't
  tell my wife :-)). It is located about 60 miles north of San Francisco.
  Buyer to arrange for shipping.

  This machine is set up, and I will invite anyone that may be interested
  to stop by and play it!

			   Steve Pazar
			   pazar@hpnmdla.sr.hp.com

Newsgroups: rec.games.pinball
From: dpettit@javelin.sim.es.com (Daina Pettit)
Subject: Re: Older Pinball Machines (Games left light)
Organization: Evans & Sutherland Computer Corporation
Date: Wed, 9 Sep 1992 04:23:32 GMT

In article <1992Sep5.222812.25636@CSD-NewsHost.Stanford.EDU> bhayes@Xenon.Stanford.EDU (Barry Hayes) writes:
>In article <9208261451.AA01348@rwasic24.aud.alcatel.com>, wasallee@RWASIC24.AUD.ALCATEL.COM (}Bill Sallee) writes:
>>       -It was not uncommon to see people rack up 20 or 30 replays.
>
>One very odd feature that showed up on old machines. . .  In some
>places, machines were not allowed to display how many games were left.
>The rationale was that people would sell the games and that this
>would encourage skillful pinball players to be professionals by
>spending a nickle on a game and selling 20 for a buck.  On all old
>machines that I knew there was a light somewhere under the glass but
>off the playfield that was lit if there were more games left -- you
>could tell if there was a game, but not how many.  I never could
>understand why they had that AND the wheel counting games left until I
>heard the above.

So *that's* what the light is for!  I've been wondering for a long time 
why that light was there.  I've seen the light on all Williams and late 
EM Ballys and none on Gottliebs.  The light is on the left side of the
instruction/score card holder and is about the size of a penny.  

With some Williams games, in the packet that contains the score cards and
such is a little piece of self adhesive foil to cover the credit window.
Now I know why.  Thanks Barry.
-- 
  Daina Pettit  (801) 582-5847  dpettit@spiff.sim.es.com   
  Evans & Sutherland  600 Komas Drive, SLC, UT  84108
From: 00tdspence@bsu-ucs.uucp
Newsgroups: rec.games.pinball
Subject: Buying a pinball
Date: 9 Sep 92 17:44:35 GMT


Can someone please tell me where I can get a pinball?
Can I just go to a hardware store and look for a huge ball bearing?  :-)
I am buying one for a friend of mine for X-mas.

Thanks in advance for any and all help.

trav
00tdspence@virgo.bsuvc.bsu.edu
Newsgroups: rec.games.pinball
From: rcb@binstock.osf.org (R.C. Binstock)
Subject: ball return gate: Royal Flush
Reply-To: rcb@osf.org
Organization: Open Software Foundation
Distribution: rec
Date: 8 Sep 92 12:04:11


Royal Flush, Gottleib '76 (two-player version Card Whiz) has a gate,
opened by a rollover, that returns the ball to the plunger instead of
the right drain.

When I used to play RF back in 1976 in my freshman dormitory, we
discovered that if you pounded hard on the glass in a certain place
you could open the gate.  On our "high score" sheet on the side of the
machine we had two columns for High Ball and High Game: "With Pound"
and "Without Pound."  One day the maintenance guy saw it and wanted to
know what gives.  We explained that we liked to read Ezra Pound poems
to each other while playing but he didn't buy it.  That was it for
"With Pound."

rcb
Newsgroups: rec.games.pinball
From: drew@kinglear.cs.colorado.edu (Drew Eckhardt)
Subject: Re: Secret Mania - What is IT (HSII - The GetAway)
Organization: University of Colorado at Boulder
Date: Tue, 15 Sep 1992 22:29:24 GMT

In article <1992Sep15.134500.13672@njitgw.njit.edu> cjm9321@hertz.njit.edu (The InfoMan) writes:
>In article <1992Sep14.130336.2177@merrimack.edu> nin15b0b@merrimack.edu (David E. Sheafer) writes:
>>I was playing HSII - The Getaway yesterday & I got Secret Mania, have no
>>idea how i got it or what it is, or how to get it again
>>
>>Can anyone tell me what it is and how to get it again
>>
>>thanks
>>
>>
>>-- 
>>David E. Sheafer
>>
>>internet:  nin15b0b@merrimack.edu   or  uucp:      samsung!hubdub!nin15b0b
>>
>>GEnie:     D.SHEAFER             Cleveland Freenet:    ap345
>
>	I hate giving away the secret but...
>
>	You get Secret Mania by shifting the gears while there are three
>(3) cops at Donut Heaven.
>
>
>
>	Just a side question...
>
>	What does the cop say the second time you get there?
>
>	It sounds like "... Get that scumbag."
>	or is it       "... Get that suspect."

At our local machine, it's something like 

"This time we'll nail that dirtbag"

-- 
Microsoft is responsible for propogating the evils it calls DOS and Windows, 
IBM for AIX (appropriately called Aches by those having to administer it), but 
marketing's sins don't come close to those of legal departments.
Boycott AT&T for their absurd anti-BSDI lawsuit.
Newsgroups: rec.games.pinball
From: walkie@netcom.com (Benjamin Wayne Witz)
Subject: Re: TAF special
Date: Tue, 15 Sep 92 08:35:24 GMT
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services (408 241-9760 guest)

In article <1992Sep12.020734.13870@umiami.ir.miami.edu> jdeitch@umiami.ir.miami.edu writes:
>
>Easy : Tour the Mansion by getting all the mansion rooms.   The special is then
>       lit and all you have to do is claim it.

EASY!?!?!? I have one horrendous time trying to claim
HALF the rooms in the mansion, let alone tour it
3-4-5times like some of the r.g.p resident experts :-)



-- 
-------------------------------------------------------
Benjamin W. Witz (WalkieT)   |        walkie@netcom.com
Portage, MI                  |             (616)3276419
-------------------------------------------------------
From: s892031@yallara.cs.rmit.OZ.AU (Pumpkin Power)
Newsgroups: rec.games.pinball
Subject: Only ONE reply?
Date: 11 Sep 92 19:58:56 GMT

On all previous machines I've played a replay is awarded at the first replay
score, and at double this score.  Today I played a High Speed II which
awarded only the first scored replay.  Is this operator settable?
I had always figured it was not, as every machine I played had always only
rewarded one - if the local operators want to stop people getting credits
they just seem to set the lowest possible replay scores extremely high.

Peter Barton : s892031@minyos.xx.rmit.oz.au
From: jdeitch@umiami.ir.miami.edu
Newsgroups: rec.games.pinball
Subject: Re: TAF special
Date: 12 Sep 92 02:07:34 EDT
Distribution: world
Organization: Univ of Miami IR

jrt@gap.Eng.Sun.COM (Joel Tornatore) writes:
 
> How do you light the special???

Easy : Tour the Mansion by getting all the mansion rooms.   The special is then
       lit and all you have to do is claim it.

- Jonathan 
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Internet : jdeitch@umiami.miami.edu | Go Braves !! | "I hate it when I can't
---------------------------------------------------| trust my own technology !" 
"Thrills!  Chills!  Magic!  Prizes!"  -- Hurricane |    -- Geordi LaForge

*** Please note, Sep 1st I change to : jdeitch@gisatl.fidonet.org !!!

Gene Roddenberry, Isaac Asimov, Jim Henson, Dr Seuss, Mel Blanc ... Sigh ... 
Newsgroups: rec.games.pinball