From: roger@crux.Princeton.EDU (Roger Lustig)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.german
Subject: Re: CLARIFICATION: Translation help, bitte.
Date: 12 Nov 92 18:20:13 GMT
Reply-To: roger@astro.princeton.edu (Roger Lustig)
Organization: Princeton University
Originator: news@nimaster

In article <1dtchkINNb5u@iraul1.ira.uka.de> s_titz@ira.uka.de (Olaf Titz) writes:
>In article <1dt277INNh50@manuel.anu.edu.au> bdm@cs.anu.edu.au writes:
>>In article 1dn6tjINNcie@manuel.anu.edu.au, I wrote:

>>>In the course of some research into Middle East history, I need
>>>to interpret the following sentence from German Foreign Ministry
>>>archives (1941):

>>>    Das deutsche Ziel w\"urde dann lediglich die Vernichtung des 
>>>    im arabischen Raum unter der Protektion der britischen Macht 
>>>    lebenden Judentums sein.

>>>I have two professional translations, namely:

>>>(a) Germany's only objective would then be solely the destruction 
>>>    of the Jewish element residing in the Arab sphere under the
>>>    protection of British power.
>>>(b) Thereafter, Germany's only remaining objective in the region 
>>>    would be limited to the annihilation of the Jews living under
>>>    British protection in Arab lands.

>>(b) The speaker (S) is a top Nazi (I will identify him later.).
>>(c) The listener (L) is a foreigner who wants German support for 
>>    his own nationalist aims.  (I will also identify him later.)
>>    He is definitely NOT a confidant of the Nazi leadership; i.e., 

>Then I would suggest you take the first translation...

I wouldn't suggest that in any case.  The translation is erroneous,
or very free -- including elements from sentences not given here.

How do we get *only* and *solely* into the sentence, for one thing?
"Lediglich" means "simply" or "merely."  In this case, the former 
makes more sense.  Worse, "Jewish element" is simply wrong for "Judentum,"
which means, plainly and simply, "Jewry."  One might say "the Jews"
as in (b); but "element" has no place here.

What does "dann" mean?  "In that case"?  "Then"?  Can't quite tell from
the sentence, but the former is suggested by the subjunctive.

My translation:

"In that case, the German goal [Germany's goal] would simply be the
annihilation [etc. as in (b)]

>>...
>>My problem is NOT "what did the Nazi S actually mean?"  It is:

>>  ** What did the foreigner L believe he was being promised? **

Can't tell.  What does "dann" mean here? What does it refer to?
Whoever is speaking is saying that, in some circumstance, the Germans
would act toward (or support or encourage -- "das Ziel" can be taken
several ways) the annihilation of Jews living in British-controlled
Arab lands.

>...for this reason. Even Nazi diplomats were diplomats and took a lot
>of care about what they said, to not reveal too much of their true
>intentions.

What has this to do with it?  I don't follow.  The speaker is saying
that, under some circumstance, the Germans would aim for annihilation
of these Jews.  What they'd do toward that aim is not clear, but the
aim is.

>>To elaborate a little, would L have come away with a clear belief 
>>that the Nazis would kill every Jew in Arab lands, or might he
>>have reasonably interpretted those words as just a more forceful
>>way to promise "Beseitigung der nationalj\"udischen Heimat"?

False dichotomy.  Certainly not the latter, but not necessarily 
the former: the Nazis might try to get someone else to do the killing.
or decide that the goal was not worth pursuing right away.  However, the
death of the Jews -- one way or another -- would be their aim.

>I think he would have done the latter, as this was likely what S
>wanted him to believe.

How can you tell?  Are you deriving this from that one sentence?  How?

Roger
Newsgroups: soc.culture.german