From: markk@sagredo.West.Sun.COM (Mark Kampe)
Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.misc
Subject: Re: cluelessness in mystery games (prep vs improv)
Date: 1 Sep 92 15:57:15 GMT
Organization: SunSoft South
NNTP-Posting-Host: sagredo.west.sun.com

philipla@microsoft.com (Phil Lafornara) writes:
>       "Mystery" is a genre, not a rule-set.  

I thought this thread evolved from an enumeration of playing styles.  For the 
purposes of that discussion "mystery" is not a genre, but a play style 
(of if you insist, a rule-set).

> There has always been a problem in RPGs - specifically, players are not 
> (and shouldn't be, in most cases) their characters.  The players will have 
> different knowledge than their characters, in some cases more and in some 
> cases less.  

There was another thread a few weeks ago about players who were unable to
play their characters.  This works better in dice-dominated games than it
does in player-action-dominated games.

> It is up to the GM to help the player role-play that character appropriately.
> "Your intuition says that was an important clue" seems somewhat blunt but 
> still appropriate for the situation.

Helping players with role playing is one thing.  Fudging their rolls and
giving them answers is something rather different.  

A game should be dominated by what the players are good at or have fun at.
You can put a mystery into a hack and slash game and make it satisfying.

	Player:	I hang around the bar and listen to people.

	GM:	It is pretty noisy in here

	Player:	I carry my drink around and try to get close to various
		groups.

	GM:	Give me dex and observation rolls.

	GM:	(rolls) you hear a local farmer talking to a friend about
		the fact that someone is living in the old Windermeer house
		again.

	Player:	OK, we head out there and snoop around.

	GM:	Give me some stealth and observation rolls.

	GM:	(rolls) you notice two local toughs sitting on the porch
		apparently standing guard.

	Player:	YES!!!

This is a game that seems to involve a mystery, but the players will be able
to play rather than solve it - and they will be able to play it based solely
on the abilities of their characters.

In other mystery games, you only get information by role-playing every
conversation, and you only get clues by looking straight at them.

	Player:	How fast would the train have been going at this point?

	GM:	about 15 MPH.

	Player:	I crawl on my hands and knees along the left side
		of the tracks from the second signal back for about 
		20', looking for blood stains on the track, gravel 
		and ties.

	GM:	the oil on the ties will make it very difficult to
		recognize blood stains there.

	Player:	OK, focusing primarily on the gravel.

	GM:	about 12 feet back from the signal, you find a minor scraped
		depression in the gravel, and near the outside edge are
		several stones showing traces of recent blood.

	Player:	are there clear foot prints?

	GM:	there are skid-trenches that look like they were probably
		made by feet - landing at high speed.

	Player: examine rocks in the right trench, looking for brown stains.

	GM:	you find two rocks, with points covered with brown shoe polish
		and a little bit of scraped leather.

	Player:	YES!!!

Both of these are mystery genre, but they are very different games, and a 
player who was used to playing the second would have a terrible time with
the first ... and vice versa.