From: d89-gsk@nada.kth.se (Gani Skepi)
Newsgroups: talk.religion.misc
Subject: Re: Basics of Islam
Date: 9 Jan 93 12:23:30 GMT
Organization: Royal Institute of Technology, Stockholm, Sweden


In article <1993Jan7.225924.19168@news.cs.brandeis.edu>, aaron@binah.cc.brandeis
.edu (Scott Aaron) writes:
|> In article <1993Jan7.205249.11764@kth.se>, d89-gsk@nada.kth.se (Gani Skepi) w
rites:
|> 
|> [much deleted...]
|> 
|> >So to every nation there was sent a guide with the message of submittance to
|> >God. Some Muslims Scholars even clame that Budda might have been a Prophet 
|> >sent by God, but that his followers changed the religion to something else.
|> >It is the same thing with Hinduism...
|> 
|> This is interesting.  In my pre-Christian days, I believed that all religions
|> were the same and that the various religous founders were merely messengers
|> from God to different cultures.  Is this similar to what these scholars claim?

Yes, as long as they were true and gave the true message, i.e submitt yourself
to God only.

The Islamic idea is that every nation was given a warner (Prophet) to teach
people about the Truth. The idea is that God isn't only for Arabs and Jews 
so Prophets must have risen in other communities too. This is why there are 
so many common divisiors between alot of the religions on Earth. Still Abra-
ham (pbuh) was promised that through his seed (Jews/Arabs) great Prophets 
would arise. From his seed the messengers who whould play the most important 
role for mankind would come.

Still He warns both of these people in their scriptures that if they fail
He will find another people who wont fail...

Jeremiah:(31:36)"If these ordinances depart from before Me, says
the Lord, then the posterity of Israel also shall cease from being
a nation before Me through out the ages."

And according to Jesus (pbuh):

Matthew:(21:43)" I tell you, for this reason the kingdom of God will
be taken away from you and given to a people who will produce the
fruits of it."

And then the Arabs:

In the name of God, Most Gracious, Most Merciful.
(47:38)"And if ye turn back (from your duties and responsibilities)
He (Allah) will substitute in your place another People then they 
will not be like you."

So God is for everyone.....

All the other messangers came for their own people and community and gave
them the things which were particular to them. 

Jesus (pbuh) himself for example is recorded to have stated that he came 
for Jews *only*.

(Matt 15:24)" But he answered and said, I am not sent *but unto* the lost 
sheep of the house of Israel."

And again in (Matt 10:5-6)" These twelve Jesus sent forth, and commanded 
them, saying, Go not into the way of the Gentiles, and into any city of 
the Samaritans enter ye not: But go rather to the lost sheep of the house 
of Israel."

But in (Mark 16:15) it is written: "And he said unto them, Go ye into all 
the world, and preach the gospel to every creature."?????
Yes it is but the verses from Mark 16:9 - the rest of the chapter, do not 
exist in the most acient scriptures. They are interpolations which were put
in later (see the RSV and every new Bible translation worth the name). If 
Mark 16:15 was really a part of the words of Jesus (pbuh) we would propably
have ended up with another one of those contradictions....

So from Jesus (pbuh) *own* words as claimed to have been recorded in the 
Gospels we can draw the conclusion that he came for Jews *only*, i.e. for 
the Jewish community.

So what is the difference with all the other prophets and Muhammed (pbuta) 
according to Islam?

Well, the Muslim idea is that they all came only for their special nation 
while prophet Muhammed (pbuh) came as the last Messenger to the whole world
bringing the Last Testament (if there is something as the OT and the NT then 
the Qurtan must be the LT.. :-)....)..

The Chairman of the Scool of Oriental Studies (propably ex Chairman by now) 
at the Hebrew University in Jerusalem has also something interesting to say 
on this point :

" IN A RECENT FRENCH-ALGERIAN PUBLICATION, ISLAM HAS BEEN CHAR-
ATERIZED AS JUDAISM WITH UNIVERSALISTIC TENDENCIES. THERE IS 
SOME TRUTH IN THIS DEFINITION."(prof. S.D. Goitein in his book -
"Jews and Arabs" page 35)

 
In the name of God, Most Gracious, Most Merciful.
(33:40)" Muhammad is not the father of any of your men, but he 
is the Apostle of Allah and the Seal of the prophets; and Allah 
is cognizant of all things."

          The Holy Prophet said: 'I have been distinguished from the
other Prophets in six things: 1) I have been endowed with the eloquent
speech, 2) I have been succoured with awe, 3) Booty has been made
lawful for me, 4) The earth has been made a mosque for me as well as a
means of obtaining purity (i.e. in my shariah the Prayers can be
offered anywhere on the surface of the earth and not only in specific
houses of worship, and Tayammum (purification through dust) can be
resorted to for ablutions in case water is not available, 5) I have
been appointed a Messenger for the entire world, and 6) With me the
office of Prophethood has been closed'. 
                                (-- Muslim, Tirmidhi, Ibn Majah)

             The Holy Prophet said: 'My position in relation to the
Prophets who came before me can be understood by a parable: A person
erected a great building and decorated and adorned it well, but in a
corner he left a niche, an empty space, for just one brick.  The
people went round the building and wondered at its beauty, but said:
Why was not a brick layed here? So, I am that brick and I am the Last
of the Prophets.  (That is, with my advent the edifice of the
Prophethood has been perfected.  Now there is found no empty niche,
which may have to be filled by another Prophet)'.
                                        (-- Bukhari: Kitab al-Manaqib)

           The Holy Prophet said: 'There is no prophethood after me;
there are only harbingers of good news.  It was asked, 'What are the
harbingers of good news, O Messenger of Allah?' He replied: 'A true
vision,' or said, 'A righteous vision'. (That is, there is no
possibility of Devine Revelation now.  At the most a person may
recieve an inspiration, which will be in the form of a true vision.)
                                (-- Musnad Ahmed, Nasai, Abu Da'ud)


|> How do these Muslim scholars support this view?  In reading surah 2 (as far as 
|> I've read so far so feel free to point out my ignorance), the idea that Jews,
|> Christians, and followers of John the Baptist (Sabatians or some word like that) 
|> were on the "right track" was presented but I saw nothing about non-Middle Eastern 
|> religions.  Everything I've seen (glancing ahead in the Qur'an) seems to focus 
|> exclusively on the Middle Eastern religions as being based on the truth.
|> 

The answer is in the last part of (2:62).

In the name of God, Most Gracious, Most Merciful.
(2:62)" Those who believe in the Quran, and those who follow the Jewish
scriptures, and the Christians, and the Sabians, and those who believe in
Allah and the last day, and work rigteoussness, shall have their reward 
with their Lord, on them shall be no fear, nor shall they grieve."

They fall under the part: Who believe in Allah and the last day and work
righteousness. 

As long as a person does the above things that person is a Muslim (submitter).

But how do we know today what is righteousness????
The answer is simple, you have to go to the words of God and the unaltered 
teachings of a Messenger of His. And today (according to us Muslims) the only
way to do that is to follow what is nowadays called as Islam.

With Christians God means those who saw Jesus the son of Mary (pbuh) as a man 
not like God.

And then as Muhammed (pbuh) was sent for the entire world everyone who hears
about him should follow him.

In the name of God, Most Gracious, Most Merciful.
(5:48)"And unto you  have We revealed the Scripture with the truth,
confirming whatever Scripture was before it, and a watch over it ..."

In the name of God, Most Gracious, Most Merciful.
(8:105)"We sent it down (the Quran) in truth and in truth has it
descended; and we sent thee but to give Glade tidings and to (warn)
sinners".

In the name of God, Most Gracious, Most Merciful.
(41:42) "No falsehood can approch it from before or behind it: It is
sent down by One Full of Wisdom, Worthy of all praise."

In the name of God, Most Gracious, Most Merciful.
(39: 54-59)" And return to your Lord time after time and submit to 
Him before there comes to you the punishment, then you shall not be 
helped. And follow the best that has been revealed to you from your 
Lord before there comes to you the punishment all of a sudden while 
you do not even perceive; Lest a soul should say: O woe to me! for 
what I fell short of my duty to Allah, and most surely I was of those 
who laughed to scorn; Or it should say: Had Allah guided me, I would 
certainly have been of those who guard (against evil); Or it should 
say when it sees the punishment: Were there only a returning for me, 
I should be of the doers of good. 
Aye! My communications came to you, but you rejected them, and you 
were proud and you were one of the unbelievers."

|> >Jesus (pbuh) himself wasn't called Christ in all his life.
|> >He called himself the Messiah. The word Christ comes from the greek Christos 
|> >but the "os" has been chopped off to make it unique. Alot of Christians seem
|> >to walk around with the idea that the word Christ has something to do with 
|> >crucifixion or something the similiar.
|> 
|> Christos and Messiah are the same word, or at least one is a translation of
|> the other:  Maschiach (forgive my spelling) is the Hebrew and Christos
|> translates it to Greek.  Messiah is the Anglicized version of Maschiach and
|> Christ is the Anglicized version of Christos.  Peter called Jesus the Christ.

True, but the point was that Jesus (pbuh) himself *never* heard the word 
Christ as it is a word wich was introduced later on. So he himself could
never have claimed to establish *Christ*ianity.

Peace
Gani Skepi
d89-gsk@nada.kth.se

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(SAHIH MUSLIMIN)" ... I heard the Messenger of Allah (pbuh) saying: 
He who amongst you should see something abominable should modify it
with the help of his hand; and if he has not strength enough to do 
it, then he should do it with his tongue, and if he has not strength 
enough to do it, (even) then he should (abhort it) from his heart, 
and that is the least of faith."
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