HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: philip@utstat.uucp (Philip McDunnough)
Subject: Re: I DID giev up on the Amiga!
Organization: University of Toronto, Dept. of Statistics
Date: Thu, 23 Jul 1992 08:41:04 GMT

In article <pmagrude-230792103952@skippy.jpl.nasa.gov> pmagrude@tusol.cs.trinity.edu (Patrick Magruder) writes:

[ ]
>
>Well, I have to say something about this:  (my sources are mostly MacWEEK
>issues, but in particular, the July 13, 1992 issue)
>
>Apple and IBM are working on a UNIX system called PowerOpen.  By combining
>the
>features of IBM'S AIX and the core technologies of Apple's A/UX, they are
>going
>to  enable people running on a 680x0 (I would expect an '020 w/ PMMU to do
>it, but not a 68000) to run OSF/Motif as well as the Mac interface.  Still
>running on schedule, it's slated for release in early '93.

Well all of this is fine in theory. However, you are really talking 
vapourware of the finest kind. Alliances come and go and rarely produce
great results. There are only a finte number of programmers of excellent
quality out there. It's fine for Apple and IBM to say they will do this, that
and whatever...Coming up with a finished product is a different matter.
IBM is in the workstation/Unix world. Apple is not. An alliance won't get them
in.

As far as relying on MacWeek, well...

[ Stuff re schedules of an unbelievable nature...]

Philip McDunnough
nextwave!seacove!philip@epas.utoronto.ca
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
From: umpistun@ccu.umanitoba.ca (Brent Pistun)
Subject: Re: A4000 article
Keywords: A4000, new, Amiga
Organization: University of Manitoba, Winnipeg, Manitoba, Canada
Date: Wed, 29 Jul 1992 00:49:22 GMT

In article <1992Jul28.043842.17143@ultb.isc.rit.edu> kxs5829@ultb.isc.rit.edu (K.X. Saunders ) writes:
>This is typed from the _AMIGA news_ newspaper, volume 1 no. 7.
>
>			The A4000
>		The Scoop on Commodore's Newest!
>			 by Anon
>
>I've been chomping at the bit to speak out and right now I just don't care
>about the non-disclosure agreement.  We have been beta-testing the A4000 and
     Arrrggghhhhh, when is this story going to stop getting circulated!!???



-- 
Brent E. Pistun                       Computer Engineering            \  /|
umpistun@ccu.UManitoba.ca           University of Manitoba            'o.O`
                                                                     =(___)=
                                                                        U
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
From: das9674@usl.edu (Stephenson Daniel A)
Subject: Re: Games on consoles
Organization: University of Southwestern Louisiana
Date: Fri, 31 Jul 1992 04:17:11 GMT

In article <1992Jul30.182623.7547@cheshire.oxy.edu> leavitt@cheshire.oxy.edu (Thomas VanNess Leavitt) writes:
>Star Trek: 25th Anniversary takes 4 hours to load on a 286, 2 hours on a
>386, and an hour on a 486 running at 8 mhz.

That is absolutely, totally false. Totally and completely.
To LOAD my ST:25th Anniversary games, I type 'trek' at my C: prompt
and it pops up a few seconds later...

Oh! You mean INSTALLING the game!  Of course I knew you meant that all along,
I just wanted to point out the BIG difference between loading and installing.
Not only do you installation times seem far too long, but the time is 
trivial compared to the time playing the games.
>
>thom
>


-- 
*Dan Stephenson das9674@rouge.usl.edu                                          *
*                                                                              *
* "Is it that Blake has a genius for leadership, or merely that *you* have a   *
*  genius for being led?" -Avon, from Blakes 7                                 *
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
From: torrie@cs.stanford.edu (Evan Torrie)
Subject: Re: I DID giev up on the Amiga!
Originator: torrie@Xenon.Stanford.EDU
Organization: CS Department, Stanford University, California, USA
Date: 27 Jul 92 07:04:25 GMT

gblock@csd4.csd.uwm.edu (Gregory R Block) writes:

>I bought the Amiga because I like it, and I like its capabilities,
>which haven't been matched by any past, present, or future Apple or
                                                     ^^^^^^
>IBM products.

  Have you been looking into your crystal ball to predict the
future again, Greg?  

-- 
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Evan Torrie.  Stanford University, Class of 199?       torrie@cs.stanford.edu 
Embrace rationalism, reject superstition.           Break away from the past.
From: thad@cup.portal.com (Thad P Floryan)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
Subject: Re: Obituary [Amiga's] in Silicon Valley newspaper
Date: Tue, 28 Jul 92 14:09:50 PDT
Organization: The Portal System (TM)

In article <1992Jul28.185652.7018@msi.com> bill@snoopy (Bill Poitras) writes:

| I'll bet SGI X runs GL applications much faster than X11R5 does.  It all
| depends on what you need.  Since a lot of people buy SGI machines for
| thier 3D graphics, which is very fast, the performance of the server
| isn't that big of an issue.
| [...]

This is true.  The support for GL on the SGI boxes is backed-up by,
I believe, custom ASICs, so GL is fast.  In a sense, it does for SGI
what the custom chipset does for the Amiga (and I have NO complaints
about the Amiga's windowing speed :-).

GL is also (today) proprietary, though I understand it's been licensed
to IBM for the RS6000 boxes.

And GL also does *NOT* operate over the net onto X-terminals or any
functional equivalent, so one would have to buy a complete SGI box
for every "seat" in a multi-user GL-based application.  This is
simply not acceptable for MANY end-user applications.

After 20+ years of being a DEC shop with proprietary OSs and other
"gotchas", it doesn't make sense (for my cpmpany) to continue that
dependency on any single vendor.  UNIX-/X-based apps essentially ARE
portable, and for software developers that's very important given
the cost of software development.

Don't misunderstand what I said: I praised the HP-9000/700 series and
I really like the SGI boxes.  But their X performance from the vendor
leaves a lot to be desired.  SGI is still at X11R4 as is HP; from the
release notes of X11R5 (from last year, BTW), it's considerably faster
than X11R4.  Why have some companies taken so long to upgrade?  As I've
already discovered, every X11R4 app that was of interest to me continues
to function unchanged under X11R5.

I still submit here's another untapped potential niche for the Amiga:
X-terminals (and, possibly, GL terminals (cover all bases! :-)).

Thad Floryan [ thad@cup.portal.com ]
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
From: lovealld@infonode.ingr.com (David Loveall)
Subject: Re: Obituary [Amiga's] in Silicon Valley newspaper
Reply-To: dave@xanadu.reston.ingr.com
Organization: Intergraph Corp. Federal Systems Division, Reston VA
Date: Thu, 23 Jul 1992 21:13:16 GMT

In <mykes.09pk@amiga0.SF-Bay.ORG> mykes@amiga0.SF-Bay.ORG (Mike Schwartz) writes:

>I pitched an Amiga project to a very big software publisher in the US.
>They said NO, we don't expect the Amiga to be around next year.

Isn't it a little galling that, should that prophesy come true, that 
their decision would have played a good part in it?  I'm sure they 
wouldn't see it that way, though.  

Its funny, though for how long the Amiga's imminent demise has been 
predicted.  Four or five years? 

... and the Windows lemmings continue to march on, sigh.

>--
>Amiga programmer of: GRn, MailMinder, Budokan, Beyond Dark Castle, Dark Castle
>Sega Genesis programmer of: Dick Tracy and Marble Madness.
>Mike Schwartz  (ames!zorch!amiga0!mykes or mykes@amiga0.sf-bay.org)
>1124 Fremont Ave.
>Los Altos, CA 94024

-- 
David Loveall                      | "Invent a new Mexican Junk   
Intergraph Corp, Reston VA         |  food and the world will make
dave@xanadu.reston.ingr.com        |  a run for YOUR border..."
 ..uunet!ingr!reston!xanadu!dave   |                    - MST 3000
From: mykes@amiga0.SF-Bay.ORG (Mike Schwartz)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
Subject: Re: A4000 article
Distribution: world
X-NewsSoftware: GRn 1.16f (beta) by Mike Schwartz & Michael B. Smith
Date: 30 Jul 92 00:48:20 PST
Organization: Amiga makes it possible

In article <haley.712466527@unixg.ubc.ca> haley@unixg.ubc.ca (Ross MacGregor) writes:
> In <Mike_Whalen.0ki7@agwbbs.new-orleans.LA.US> Mike_Whalen@agwbbs.new-orleans.LA.US (Mike Whalen) writes:
>
> [to Skip on the great roomer]
> >  Plus, you are a coward by not putting your name on it and pinning it to a
> >newspaper that already exists.
>
> >  I suppose you won't mind if I just call them and tell them that you are
> >using their name to spread lies? Maybe they won't mind? Who knows, though,
> >eh?
>
> Chill out there Mike!  It was no secret who wrote it.  Although he should
> have known this might happen, there was no evil intent in the article.
> I think it shows just how desperate the Amiga community is.
>

It is an old tactic called the big lie.  Lie, but tell people what they
want to hear, and they will believe it.  Slu suckered quite a few people.
Great joke.  He fooled the magazines who published his article even.  So
neener neener neener :)

> --
> Ross MacGregor           |  These views are my own and can be considered
> haley@unixg.ubc.ca       |  absolute truth.

--
Amiga programmer of: GRn, MailMinder, Budokan, Beyond Dark Castle, Dark Castle
Sega Genesis programmer of: Dick Tracy and Marble Madness.
Mike Schwartz  (ames!zorch!amiga0!mykes or mykes@amiga0.sf-bay.org)
1124 Fremont Ave.
Los Altos, CA 94024

Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
From: gerald@seas.gwu.edu (Gerald G. Washington)
Subject: Re: I am not giving up on the Amiga
Organization: George Washington University
Date: Tue, 28 Jul 1992 23:20:17 GMT

pdb059@ipl.jpl.nasa.gov (Paul Bartholomew) writes:
>mykes@amiga0.SF-Bay.ORG (Mike Schwartz) writes:
>>gerald@seas.gwu.edu (Gerald G. Washington) writes:
>>> What are some other good X applications?  I need to see if we can get
>>> some at work.
>
>> OK all you Unix/X guys out there.  Let's start a list.  I'll start it off,
>> you can add to the end :)
>> 
>> 1.	FrameMaker
>> 2.	XGuide
>> 3.	XRn
>
>You asked for it:

[Wow!  What a list!]

Thanks.  Let me go save this list for later scrutiny...

-- Gerald
From: lindblad@klaava.Helsinki.FI (Jarkko Lindblad)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
Subject: Re: I am not giving up on the Amiga
Date: 26 Jul 92 11:01:16 GMT
Organization: University of Helsinki

jerry@connection.prospect.com (Jerry Shekhel) writes:
: mykes@amiga0.SF-Bay.ORG (Mike Schwartz) writes:
: >
: >I for one am not giving up on my Amiga.  I have been pricing $4K and up
: >PC systems, and in this price range, the Amiga 3000 with 040 board is
: >the price/performance leader.  At $6K, the Amiga 2000 with GVP 040
: >and 24-bit board pushes systems at 4x the cost (i.e. SGI Elan).
: >
: 
: Mike, if you think that an Amiga with an accelerator and a 24-bit TIGA
: board can even begin to approach the performance of an Indigo Elan, you
: are badly disillusioned.  On the other hand, that Elan graphics board alone
: costs something like $16K.

Did Mike mention TIGA? To me it seems that he meant GVP's 040
accelerator _and_ GVP's EGS-board (which indeed is from another planet
when compared to TIGAs).

--
Jarkko Lindblad
lindblad@cc.helsinki.fi
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
From: pss1@kepler.unh.edu (Paul S Secinaro)
Subject: Re: AmigaDroids will *never* change
Organization: University of New Hampshire  -  Durham, NH
Date: Tue, 21 Jul 1992 12:24:20 GMT

In article <1992Jul21.025547.13061@seas.gwu.edu> gerald@seas.gwu.edu (Gerald G. Washington) writes:

>Besides this, anyone requiring such a powerful system can surely afford to
>add an extra board for memory.

Not if you want the best performance.  You need to add memory to the
CPU local bus unless you want to slow down your CPU, and hog up the
I/O bus to boot.  As I understand it, most of the huge memory
expansion products we hear about for the Amiga involve a card that
sits on the Zorro III I/O bus.  In comparison, many 486 systems allow
up to 64MB either directly on the motherboard on on a special memory
daughtercard.

But I agree that very few people need these huge amounts of memory, at
least for now.  Certainly 16MB should be sufficient for most purposes,
even when running a big OS like UNIX.

Paul
-- 
Niven's Law #14:   There exist minds that think as well as you do, but
                   differently.
Niven's Corollary: The gene-tampered turkey you're talking to isn't
                   necessarily one of them.
From: jerry@connection.prospect.com (Jerry Shekhel)
Subject: Re: Obituary [Amiga's] in Silicon Valley newspaper
Organization: Molecular Simulations, Inc.
Date: Sat, 25 Jul 1992 21:56:11 GMT
X-Posted-From: connection.prospect.com
X-Posted-Through: sol.ctr.columbia.edu

plouff@kali.enet.dec.com (Wes Plouff) writes:
>
>Windows NT? Maybe a start at a paradigm shift, maybe what MS-DOS should
>have been years ago.  Definitely surrounded by hype.
>

Microsoft has hired Dave Cutler, who worked extensively on VMS.  Dave
decided that the successor to VMS is:

		VMS + 1 = WNT (increment each letter)

which is, of course, Windows New Technology.  Well, guess what!  The
successor to WNT already exists:

		WNT + 1 = XOU

which is, of course, X On Unix.  I wonder how long it'll take Microsoft
to develop that and claim that they invented it.

:-) :-) :-)
--
+-------------------+-----------------------+--------------------------------+
| Jerry J. Shekhel  | Molecular Simulations | Time just fades the pages      |
| Drummers do it... | Inc.  Waltham, MA USA | in my book of memories.        |
|    ... In rhythm! |     (617) 890-2888    |              -- Guns N' Roses  |
+-------------------+-----------------------+--------------------------------+
|           ...! [ princeton mit-eddie bu sunne ] !polygen!jerry             |
|                            jerry@polygen.com                               |
+----------------------------------------------------------------------------+
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
From: leavitt@cheshire.oxy.edu (Thomas VanNess Leavitt)
Subject: Re: OS Names - what they are...
Organization: Occidental College, Los Angeles, CA 90041 USA.
Date: Fri, 31 Jul 1992 00:15:14 GMT

Most Atari owners use a replacement desktop (such as NeoDesk)... this
point should be included in a comparison (Windows/GeoWorks, etc are
similar).

Thom
From: mykes@amiga0.SF-Bay.ORG (Mike Schwartz)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
Subject: Re: I am not giving up on the Amiga
Date: 27 Jul 92 07:35:43 GMT
Organization: Amiga makes it possible
X-NewsSoftware: GRn 1.16e (7/4/92) by Mike Schwartz & Michael B. Smith

In article <1992Jul26.202329.17323@seas.gwu.edu> gerald@seas.gwu.edu (Gerald G. Washington) writes:
> dtiberio@libws2.ic.sunysb.edu (David Tiberio) writes:
> >jerry@connection.prospect.com (Jerry Shekhel) writes:
> >>Mike, if you think that an Amiga with an accelerator and a 24-bit TIGA
> >>board can even begin to approach the performance of an Indigo Elan, you
> >>are badly disillusioned.  On the other hand, that Elan graphics board alone
> >>costs something like $16K.
> >
> >	I agree with both of you. The Amiga does achieve the performance from
> >the specs I have seen (within 10% on raw data), but of course would lack
> >the specialized software. Which in fact may be even more felxible if
> >programmed on an Amiga...that is dependant on my next question of course.
>
> I dare say that Mike Schwartz knows a thing or two about programming.  One
> might even say that he prefers to right his own applications if he has the
> necessary hardware and a good compiler.  I would not presume to speak for
> Mr. Schwartz though...
>

Speaking for myself, I would easily be able to program the PC with SVGA
or the Amiga with the GVP board.  However, I don't want to invent every
piece of software to run on these boards - my time is limited to what one
(or two or three, tops :) programmers can do in a lifetime.  I would much
rather buy an off-the-shelf 24-bit paint program than write one of my
own...

> >	What does an Indigo have in it hardware wise? What kind of expansion
> >slots does it have? What OS does it run (UNIX?)?
>
> I am curious about the Indigo's software.  We have some 3D graphics packages
> here, but I have not discovered any wordprocessors, databases, etc.
>

I in no way intend to slam anything SGI has ever built.  Other than Amiga
Corp. and to a lesser extent CBM, SGI has been the most innovative systems
designers around.  I see the SGI as the Amiga's big brother in soooo many
ways - almost proprietary OS, fast animations on screen, high quality
audio builtin, high performance bus architecture, etc.  The SGI machines
are a BIG step up from Amiga, though.  24-bit color and 16-bit audio is
something that stock Amigas don't do...

As for Apps, the Indigo has plenty to choose from, albeit they are very
expensive.  I do not know for sure if FrameMaker exists for the SGI, but
if it is, you won't find a better desktop publisher/word processor on
any platform - especially the Mac (which claims this kind of app as
a strength).  FrameMaker is available on the Mac in a crippled/slimmed
down version of what the X version does...

> -- Gerald

--
Amiga programmer of: GRn, MailMinder, Budokan, Beyond Dark Castle, Dark Castle
Sega Genesis programmer of: Dick Tracy and Marble Madness.
Mike Schwartz  (ames!zorch!amiga0!mykes or mykes@amiga0.sf-bay.org)
1124 Fremont Ave.
Los Altos, CA 94024
From: mykes@amiga0.SF-Bay.ORG (Mike Schwartz)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
Subject: Re: I am not giving up on the Amiga
Distribution: world
X-NewsSoftware: GRn 1.16e (7/4/92) by Mike Schwartz & Michael B. Smith
Date: 25 Jul 92 22:44:15 PST
Organization: Amiga makes it possible

In article <1992Jul25.183355.29495@mnemosyne.cs.du.edu> jyoung@nyx.cs.du.edu (Jeff Young) writes:
> In article <mykes.0a41@amiga0.SF-Bay.ORG> mykes@amiga0.SF-Bay.ORG (Mike Schwartz) writes:
> >I for one am not giving up on my Amiga.  I have been pricing $4K and up
> >PC systems, and in this price range, the Amiga 3000 with 040 board is
> >the price/performance leader.  At $6K, the Amiga 2000 with GVP 040
> >and 24-bit board pushes systems at 4x the cost (i.e. SGI Elan).
> >
>
> If you are paying thousands to PC dealer then Amiga dealer will
> lose money and sale.  You are MAJOR developer too so if all
> you money go to PC then now it will be very hard for Amiga
> companies.
>

I am NOT giving up on the Amiga.  There isn't anything at the
Amiga dealer I want to buy.

> PC is like TYRANNOSORUS REX. It eats everything else, stinks
> and it is terrible neighbor.  Computer evolution got BEST
> MUTATION with A500 and soon Atari Falcon will be born.

NeXt is better than either Amiga or Atari, but suffers from the same
problem.  I want to be able to go to the store and find something
new and good OFTEN.  Amiga, Atari, NeXt don't provide this if you
buy their machines.


--
Amiga programmer of: GRn, MailMinder, Budokan, Beyond Dark Castle, Dark Castle
Sega Genesis programmer of: Dick Tracy and Marble Madness.
Mike Schwartz  (ames!zorch!amiga0!mykes or mykes@amiga0.sf-bay.org)
1124 Fremont Ave.
Los Altos, CA 94024

Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
From: skip@tacky.cs.olemiss.edu (Skip Sauls)
Subject: Re: A4000 article
Keywords: A4000, new, Amiga
Organization: We Want New Amigas, Inc.
Date: Tue, 28 Jul 1992 15:50:22 GMT

In article <1992Jul28.122455.5873@dartvax.dartmouth.edu> abs0@coos.dartmouth.edu (Kelvin Leung) writes:
>OH no... Not again... that article was a cruel joke.  It was created
>right here @ comp.sys.amiga.advocacy!!!  Please... don't repost it again.

Actually it was created on an Amiga telneted to a Sun under emacs and
and posted with rrn to c.s.a.advocacy.  :-)

>Skip, would you say something to these folks, please?  I am getting
>a little tired reading about the Amiga Classic(tm).

If I thought that saying something would do some good I would.  Over the
last year or so I have been reading and posting to c.s.a.advocacy and
truly enjoy the less than serious attitude which prevails.  Mine was not
the first "New Amigas" post and unless Commodore does something I doubt
that it will be the last.

I doubt any of the decision makers at Commodore has read the article, but 
if they did and it pissed them off, GOOD!  If those idiots would open their
eyes and ears they'd see how poorly the Amiga is doing in the US.  Do they
really expect to continue to sell their outdated technology forever?  How
many new Amigas are sold to persons other than Amiga owners?  I'd bet that
there are a few due to the Toaster and a few to parents who see the A500 as
a Genesis with a floppy and keyboard.

Commodore's little letter posted here was truly pitiful.  They proudly
proclaim that they are a Billion Dollar Company.  Oooohhh...  Jump back
everyone, don't mess with the big C=!  If they truly consider themselves a
big company then they need to start acting like one and doing more to promote
the Amiga instead of pleading with owners to start a write-in campaign.

Commodore now looks more pitiful than ever.  But the funny thing is that
I'll probably be suckered once again if they do release something this 
fall that looks interesting.  :-)

>Thanks.
>
>Yours Sincerely,
>Kelvin
>                                            ____________________________
> __________________________________________/ Undergraduate, Class of 94 \___ 
> ____________________________________________________________/_____\________
>| Kelvin     /   Internet: Kelvin.Leung@Dartmouth.edu       ({o   o})       |
>|   Leung   /       or     abs0@Coos.Dartmouth.edu        <  #  ^  #  >     | 
>|__________/_______________________________________________(vvvvvvvvv)------|
>| "Unless someone like you cares a whole |  Aaahhhh!!! It's a beast...      |
>|  awful lot, nothing is going to get    |    ... no, no... it's a doll...  |
>|  better.  It's not."                   |       ... what is it?            |
>|               -- Dr. Seuss (The Lorax) | either way... it's here!!!       |
> ________________________________________^__________________________________ 

                                                          ___         __
  Skip Sauls, TKKC Charter Member                          |  |/  |/ / 
  skip@tacky.cs.olemiss.edu                                |  |\  |\ \__