HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: grego@bit.UUCP (Greg Sanguinetti)
Newsgroups: rec.audio
Subject: Re: Prewiring a new house for sound...
Date: 16 Oct 92 15:06:34 GMT
Article-I.D.: bit.446
Reply-To: grego@bit.UUCP (Grego Sanguinetti)
Distribution: usa
Organization: BIT  Portland, OR

In article <1992Oct13.221336.8216@tandem.com> Brady_David@Tandem.Com (David Brady) writes:
>
>permit.  Since I have access to the house framing now I'd like to put
>some pre-emptive wiring in.  What can I do now (at a minimum cost) to set
>myself up for the future?
>-----------------------------------
>email: Brady_David@Tandem.Com

Be certain to use wiring that is rated for "in wall" use. That is if you want
it to be legal and not be sued in the case of a fire. This kind of wire is
available, even at rat shack.

Several people have suggested running conduit so that you can pull whatever
you want, when you want it. BE FORWARNED, in most cases this is ILLEGAL!!

The electrical inspector will likely make you remove it. My copy of the
NEC (National Electrical Code) is at home so I can't give you all the
specifics. Their explaination is that conduit for cable is also a good
conduit for fire. Also wire runs hotter in conduit than in free air although
this is only an issue for power wiring. You can run conduit outside the wall.

You can run cable trays if you have a suspended ceiling but then your cable
will all have to be plenum rated.

Talk to your electrical inspector first. He will most likely be happy to give
you suggestions.
-grego
-- 
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Grego Sanguinetti, Bipolar Integrated Technology | Water, water everywhere,
grego@bit.uucp or grego%bit%ogi.cse.edu          | but I'd rather drink
or bit!grego@ogi.cse.edu or ...!ogicse!bit!grego | beer.
From: lstowell@pyrnova.mis.pyramid.com (Lon Stowell)
Newsgroups: rec.audio
Subject: Re: Very expensive cables
Date: 13 Oct 92 20:06:15 GMT
Reply-To: lstowell@pyrnova.pyramid.com (Lon Stowell)
Organization: Pyramid Technology Corp., Mountain View, CA

In article <1992Oct13.114152.25877@edscom.demon.co.uk> rpt@edscom.demon.co.uk (Richard Tomlinson) writes:
>My turn to throw some more petrol on the fire...

   And absolutely no enlightenment whatsoever.

   Perhaps you slept thru human history and missed the part where
   philosophers sat around and theorized about "what if's" and
   performed all sorts of mental gymnastics to determine the nature
   of nature by power of reason alone.

   They were soundly displaced by a few low life early scientists
   who took the radical step of actually TRYING out their theories
   by experimentation.   

   Human rationalization had an extremely ugly collision with
   reality and the results were earthshaking.

   Rather than trying to return humans back to the days of mental
   masturbation and superstition, why not flesh out your thought
   experiment a bit and see if

      o It is worth persuing as a physical experiment?

      o What would be the expected magnitude of the effects and
	would it make a difference to signals in the range of
	interest?
>
>People who've tried to explain why cables make/don't make a difference to the
>sound of a hifi have concentrated on capacitance, inductance etc. I have 
>another suggestion. If you don't agree with me, please mail/post a reasoned
>explanation as to why I am wrong.
>
   You pose yet another theory, which may or may not be
   applicable...but totally fail to put it to a mental test
   yourself.  If you are a ham radio operator, you should know
   roughly what the voltages of junction diodes are, what the common
   impurities of cables are, and whet type of effects you would
   expect to see from any/all of these.

   I DO disagree with your strawman claiming to summarize the
   postings of the audio engineers on the 'net.   

>I know that a rusty piece of metal near a transmitting aerial can cause
>interference to nearby receivers. This happens because the rust acts like a
>semiconductor diode causing non-linearities that produce harmonics. If a
>length of cable carrying an audio signal contains impurities then maybe it
>effectively contains diodes that may cause distortion. Presumably, the
>manufacturers believe that oxygen free copper and crystalline structures
>avoid these effects.
   
   What are the electronic effects of a diode?  Would you expect
   all the diode-like elements in the cable to be aligned in the
   same direction?  

   What's the equivalent circuit of a diode in parallel with a piece
   of wire?   

   Seems to me your theory should be EASILY capable of
   verification...all you need is a non-linear cable to prove it is
   true.   
Newsgroups: rec.audio
From: DPierce@world.std.com (Richard d Pierce)
Subject: Re: Science versus TechnoBabble and Golden Ears
Organization: The World Public Access UNIX, Brookline, MA
Date: Fri, 16 Oct 1992 15:27:33 GMT

In article <Bw7Fx6.A2E@solbourne.com> kucharsk@solbourne.com (William Kucharski) writes:
>While reading article <23900@alice.att.com>, I noticed that
>jj@alice.UUCP (jj, really disgusted curmudgeon) said the following:
> >This is part of why the US HAS no audio industry.
>Uh, I know it's hip and trendy in this thread to bash the Golden Ears, but
>in reference to the comment above, try the following exercise:
>1) Pick up a copy of the October, 1992 issue of Stereophile.
>2) Scan through both the "Recommended Components" and the advertisements
>   within, and note the number of companies located overseas.
>As opposed to mass-fi, the locale of high-end audio manufacturers breaks down
>more or less as:
>	90%	United States
>	 5%	Europe
>	 3%	Canada
>	 2%	Japan

Now, look at the high-end speakers in the list. Take them apart. Look at
the sources for the drivers. You'll see something like:

         30%    Europe
         60%    Japan, Far East
          5%    United States
          5%    others

This country, through nothing short of simple business incompetence, has
pissed away any mid- or high- end driver manufacturing capability, There
is no domestic manufacturing source for semi-custom low and mid-frequency
drivers suitable for use in moderate or high-end systems. There is
absolutely no domestic source of even medicocre quality tweeters. 

Companies such as Thiele are forced to use drivers from Scan-Speak, Vifa
and Seas at a price which is not consistant with the real manufacturing
costs of these units.

I would also presume the same ratios or worse for active components used
in domestically manufactured electronics.

Yeah, we may have something that looks like a string domestic high-end
manufacturing sector, but it's as much as shell as real, just packaging stuff.


-- 
|                Dick Pierce                |
|    Loudspeaker and Software Consulting    |
| 17 Sartelle Street   Pepperell, MA  01463 |
|       (508) 433-9183 (Voice and FAX)      |
From: kurts@hpnmdla.sr.hp.com (Kurt Strain)
Date: Wed, 7 Oct 1992 17:57:47 GMT
Subject: Re: Re: Choosing Cables (Was  Re: Very expensive cables)
Organization: Outpost 1T
Newsgroups: rec.audio

In rec.audio, tony@cns.nyu.edu (Tony Movshon) writes:


> Oh, *now* I understand. Even though it looks like a duck, walks like a duck,
> swims like a duck, and quacks like a duck, we should open our minds to the
> possibility, based on blind faith alone, that it's really a pterodactyl. Hmmm.

Finally, you use the same argument on us that we've been using on you.
You're finally coming around.  Thanks for the input.
From: igb@fulcrum.co.uk (Ian G Batten)
Newsgroups: rec.audio
Subject: Re: optical vs. coax digital interconnects
Date: 13 Oct 92 14:03:26 GMT
Organization: Fulcrum Communications


[[ following up followups to your own articles is fair enough.  changing
your domain to make it look like you're not isn't...it's coincidence,
believe me! ]]

In article <Bw27t6.5ME@ssesco.com> nau@ssesco.com (William Nau) writes:
> >CD-ROM uses a much stronger Error Correction strategy, I believe.
> 
> I don't understand what difference that makes.  If it can get all of the
> bits right for $400, why not do the same in audio?  Even on a CDrom errors

The CD ROM error correction takes up more space on the disk, and
requires more silicon to implement.  Remember that CD ROM is later than
CD and benefitted from cheaper silicon (early CD players didn't use all
16 bits of resolution, didn't oversample, etc etc etc).

It's OK to use less EC on audio, because on audio you can interpolate
whereas you can't interpolate your kernel.  But if you're feeling fussy,
interpolation is a Bad Thing.

ian
Newsgroups: rec.audio,rec.video,misc.consumers
From: mpalmer@encore.com (Mike Palmer)
Subject: Re: Extended Warranties
Organization: Encore Computer Corporation
Date: Fri, 9 Oct 1992 13:06:34 GMT
Keywords: Electronic Wholesalers, Mitsubishi U57 VCR

chus@troi.cc.rochester.edu (Chunwei Shih) writes:

>For Sale:
>Eico Model 666 dynamic conductance tube and transister tester. good
>condition. size: 15"X12"X6". Asking $50/BO

>If interested, please e-mail to "sshw@db1.cc.rochester.edu"

What has this to do with extended warranties?
Newsgroups: rec.audio
From: simonh@amtfocus.amt.gss.mot.com (Simon Hu )
Subject: Advice needed on Surge Protector/Line Conditioner
Organization: Motorola 
Date: Thu, 15 Oct 1992 18:33:40 GMT

Hi All 

    I remember a while ago there were some discussions about surge 
    protection/line conditioner.  I am now think about buying one for
    my new stereo system. But I cannot remember the recommended brand name
    and mail order tel#. Is there an archive of FAQs for this group? 
    If not, I'd appreciate any suggestion or recommendation.   
    
    Thanks much!

    Simon 

    simonh@amtfocus.amt.gss.mot.com
    Motorola Manufacturing System, IL
    Schaumburg, IL 60196
From: fnord@panix.com (Cliff Heller)
Newsgroups: rec.audio
Subject: Re: Green Markers?
Date: 10 Oct 92 02:33:14 GMT
Organization: Right Bleedin' Church of Libertine Obfuscatology

In <1992Oct7.152655@usho21.hou281.chevron.com> hhtra@usho21.hou281.chevron.com (T.M.Haddock) writes:


>  What's this about "green markers" and CD's?

They really work.  Try one and you'll see.

Highs sound higher.
Lows sound lower.
Mids sound midder.

-- 
    / \      Reverend fnord                 | "King Kong died for your sins!"
   /   \     fnord@panix.com                | 
  / <0> \                                   | "Don't just eat a hamburger, 
 /_______\   Church of Obfuscatology, Inc.  |  eat the HELL out of it!"
From: "herb chong" <herb.chong@channel1.com>
Newsgroups: rec.audio
Subject: dolby c vs. dbx
Date: 12 Oct 92 20:02:55 EST
Reply-To: "herb chong" <herb.chong@channel1.com>
Distribution: rec
Organization: Channel 1 Communications

TM>You've got your theory right, but terminology wrong.  Dolby amplifies,
TM>expands the high frequencies during recording, then compresses them du
TM>playback.  That's one reason to critically check the recording levels 
TM>recording with all Dolby NR systems.  Too high a level will saturate t
TM>and distort like crazy.  That's where Dolby HX helps; it can help redu
TM>tape saturation effects of high frequencies by attenuating the recordi
TM>during high-level high-frequency passages.

i think you are backwards about your terminolgy and the msg you were 
replying to is right. take a look at some response curves in the article 
on Dolby S in Audio. Dolby HX compensates for overbiasing by high level 
high frequency sound sources as the high frquency material acts to self 
bias the signal.

a properly adjusted dbx system does not breath or pump enough to notice. 
what many people who try a dbx unit fail to account for is a misadjusted 
unit as shipped from the factory. that happened much more often than dbx 
ever admitted.

i use a Telefunken High Com unit on my Nak 700ZXL. it delivers slightly 
better SNR than dbx and certainly better than the Dolby B or C. in fact, 
i'm limited by the buffer amp noise in the outs of my deck and crosstalk 
from the display drivers. i have recorded some extremely dynamic music on 
several decks using the High Com system and only the most percussive music 
has any audible pumping. most people would not know it is there without 
having heard the original first.

i don't use my High Com unit much though because Dolby C is about as much 
as anything i usually record demands. High Com is for something special, 
like recording live music without limiters.

Herb...

---
  WinQwk 2.0 a#314  I'm not nearly as think as you confused I am.
--
Channel 1 (R)   Cambridge, MA

Newsgroups: rec.audio
From: j_adams@fc.hp.com (John Adams)
Subject: Re: Why switch to CD?
Organization: HP SESD, Fort Collins, CO
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1.4 PL6]
Date: Wed, 7 Oct 1992 15:33:12 GMT


There are 3 "Laser" turntables from Finial:
   LT-1   ($13,500)
   LT-1L  ($25,000)
   LT-1X  ($35,000)

I believe the 1L and 1X models are second generation models re-worked by
a outside company (Japanese I believe).  These were said to have
corrected some of the playback problems in the original.

For information contact:

   Finial Technologies
   (505) 662-1415
   (505) 667-1330


John Adams
Newsgroups: rec.audio
From: image@leland.Stanford.EDU (John B. Mooney)
Subject: Re: D->A Converter Recommendation
Organization: DSG, Stanford University, CA 94305, USA
Date: Fri, 9 Oct 92 20:02:41 GMT

In article <1992Oct9.060220.10657@netcom.com> daniel@netcom.com (Sam Daniel) writes:
>vern@canopus.Kodak.COM (Mark Vernacotola ) writes:
>
>>Does any one have any recommendations for separate (outboard) D->A converters
>>with a maximum price range of ~$4000?  (i.e. Mark Levinson #30 -- except cheaper)
>
>I personally think the Audio Research DAC1-20 is excellent, and
>extremely musical.  Price is somewhere between $3500 - $4000.
>
>-- 
>*
>*
>Sam Daniel          *   UUCP (Smart):  daniel@netcom.com
>Paramax Systems     *         (Dumb):  {...}!uunet!netcom!daniel
>1001 W. Maude Ave.  *          Voice:  1-408-235-2661
>Sunnyvale, CA 95131 *     Disclaimer:  It's only my opinion, but it's
>                                       a DAMN good one...

Audio Research will be introducing a newer DAC for about the same price.  I
had the opportunity to hear this DAC in AR's sound room.  They did some A-B
comparisons and the newer DAC blew away the DAC1-20.  I'm not sure what they
are going to name it.  They are also introducing a budget ~$500 DAC which
sounded a lot better than many other DACs I've heard.  (Of course, the pair of
AR Classic 150's and the Infinity IRS Betas will help make anything sound 
"good.")

-- John
 

Newsgroups: rec.audio
From: jmauric@eng.clemson.edu (John Maurice)
Subject: Surround CDs
Reply-To: jmauric@eng.clemson.edu
Organization: College of Engineering, Clemson Univ.
Date: Thu, 15 Oct 1992 18:49:16 GMT

What CDs do you know of are in surround? Please give specific titles.
Where can I get these CDs? Mail Order houses? Phone numbers?
Thanks.
---

                                            --John

============================================================================
Reply to JMAURIC@ENG.CLEMSON.EDU       |    300 Rippleview Dr.
Phone: 803-653-3893                    |    Clemson, SC 29631
============================================================================
From: bill@bilver.uucp (Bill Vermillion)
Newsgroups: rec.audio
Subject: Re: CD skipping comment
Date: 16 Oct 92 14:49:49 GMT
Article-I.D.: bilver.1992Oct16.144949.24820
Organization: W. J. Vermillion - Winter Park, FL

In article <1bks22INN1v4@darkstar.UCSC.EDU> haverl@cats.ucsc.edu (Carl A Haverl) writes:

>Older CD players that start skipping can usually be rejuvenated with
>one or two drops of teflon containing oil on the rails that the optical
>assembly slides on.  I use Tri-Flow, which is available in bike shops.
>The aeresol is OK too, just don't hit the optics.

If you go back and read what I said when I started this new
title, you will see that I reported it skipped only on the
longer discs when I hit a bump.  (This is a car player, a
Sanyo, about 5.5 years old - only one on the market I could
find then.)

I guess I expected that the readers would understand from what
I said.

My intuitive guess is that since the long discs achieve their
long lengths by using the minimum spacing tolerance in the
specifications, that these discs, because of the narrower
spacing of the groove, cause the mis-tracking by vibration,
whereas the discs cut with normal groove spacing are tolerant
of the vibrations.


-- 
Bill Vermillion - bill@bilver.oau.org  bill.vermillion@oau.org
                - bill@bilver.uucp 
                - ..!{peora|ge-dab|tous|tarpit}!bilver!bill
From: dbwebe@bb1t.monsanto.com
Newsgroups: rec.audio
Subject: Re: Elect. Ground = Expensive cables?
Date: 12 Oct 92 16:09:03 CST
Organization: Monsanto Company, St. Louis, MO

In article <1992Oct9.160853.4540@bb1t.monsanto.com>, rghoff@bb1t.monsanto.com writes:
> 
> 

> 	Use a copper grounding spike for you house wiring instead of 
> 	hooking up the the cold water pipes. The idea being that you will
> 	isolate your wiring from the rest of the neighborhood - or 
> 	something like that.
> 	
> 
> 	Rick Hoffman.





	Rick, 

		This hint really works. I used this same technique when I
	was getting some real static from one of my Teal speakers. As a matter
	of fact, I think the copper grounding spike was suggested to me 
	earlier from someone on the net. The grounding spike really worked
	in alleviating the static, but boy it was a mess to clean up after
	when I was done installing it. Thanks for reminding me of this
	solution.

	Debbie

	p.s. at least I treated myself to a good dinner that night after
	cleaning up!
From: bender@oobleck (Duke of Canterbury)
Newsgroups: rec.audio
Subject: optical vs. coax digital interconnects
Date: 11 Oct 92 05:24:58 GMT
Reply-To: bender@oobleck.eng.sun.com
Organization: SPARK's R US
NNTP-Posting-Host: oobleck
X-Newsreader: Tin 1.1 PL3

I'm considering upgrading my audio system with a new CD player and external
D/A, but I'm not sure if I should get a player/converter with optical or
coax digital interconnects.  I've heard that the coax interconnects are
susceptiable to picking up ambient RFI from other electronic devices such as
computers and VCRs, and this will affect the soundstage and transient
response of my setup.  However, I've also read in this newsgroup several
months ago that optical interconnects must be routed correctly, i.e. no
sharp bends that are at a harmonic of any frequencies in the audio range
because this will cause "flattening" of the sound since the digital bitstream
will reflect inside the optical fiber and cause reflections which will cause
the D/A converter to mistrack.

I have noticed that in my fiber optic ethernet network whenever the fiber
was bent or twisted inadvertantly, the display on my network connected
Xterminal would appear "squished" and the rendered fonts would not be as
crisp as they are when the fiber is undisturbed, so I would assume that the
same thing would happen to the digital audio data coming out of a CD player
and going to an external D/A converter connected by fiber, but manifesting
itself as a decrease in auditory definition.

Any ideas would be much appreciated, as this is a fairly substantial
investment for me.

mike

--
%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%
    Grashopper, you have been many years in the training, and I grow old,
    expecting the day when I receive the SIGXCPU, and _exit this world.
    I see that you are ready.
Newsgroups: rec.audio
From: covingc@ee.tamu.edu (Mouse)
Subject: Where to look for SAE parts?
Organization: Texas A&M University
Date: Wed, 14 Oct 1992 18:32:46 GMT

I have a sick SAE A202 power amp, and I've traced the problem to a part
that has an odd-ball part number that I haven't been able to find (not
listed in ECG, NTE, or any other book I've looked in).  I'm looking 
possible sources of parts for this beast.  The part itself is marked as
K333 (I assume its 2SK333) and its some sort of matched transistor pair
in the input stage of the power amp.

Thanks in advance,
Eric Covington
covingc@ee.tamu.edu
Newsgroups: rec.audio
From: ftsang@Cadence.COM (Frank Tsang)
Subject: B&K EQUIPMENT FOR SALE
Followup-To: poster
Keywords: AUDIOPHILE MINT CONDITION
Organization: Cadence Design Systems, Inc.
Distribution: na
Date: Mon, 12 Oct 1992 22:17:46 GMT

FOR SALE: Audiophile Preamp

B&K PRO-5  Pre Amp.     $300 obo + Shipping

Both mint; original owner;
with original packaging, manuals.
Will deliver within the SF bay area.

-- 
Regards,    + Frank Tsang                   |   ^++^    "__"    +
            + (408)-894-2448 (W)            |  @ oo @  @ .. @   +
Frank       + (510)-791-0658 (H)            |   ([])    (())    +
            + e-mail: ftsang@cadence.com    |   Heeelllloooo    +
From: "herb chong" <herb.chong@channel1.com>
Newsgroups: rec.audio
Subject: stereo review
Date: 16 Oct 92 16:39:21 EST
Reply-To: "herb chong" <herb.chong@channel1.com>
Distribution: rec
Organization: Channel 1 Communications

DK>I've seen very few (none?) posts from people who have heard difference
DK>cables trying to explain those differences.  I have seen MANY posts fr
DK>who have all sorts of explanations why I shouldn't be able to hear the
DK>differences I claim to hear.  Who then leap to the conclusion that I d
DK>really hear them at all!

i have heard differences. the only factor was thickness of the conductor. 
12 ga cable gives better bass extension than 18 ga cable. this is the ONLY 
difference that i have heard and proved to my satisfaction was a real 
effect of different cables. put another way, there is a slight rolloff at 
low fequencies because of cable impedance. that is audible and repeatable. 
so i use 12 ga zip cord with expensive jacketing so that the conductors 
don't oxidize. i used to use 8 ga wound zip cord to minimize inductance 
effects, but the jacket was cheap and the cable looked awful. i switched 
back to the lower gauge cable for aesthetic reasons, not audible.

Herb...

---
  WinQwk 2.0 a#314  A pinch of probably is worth a pound of perhaps
--
Channel 1 (R)   Cambridge, MA

Newsgroups: rec.audio
From: strong@tc.fluke.COM (Norm Strong)
Subject: Re: Black rubber CD rings - Any good ?
Organization: John Fluke Mfg. Co., Inc., Everett, WA
Date: Mon, 12 Oct 1992 14:29:40 GMT

In article <1992Oct7.090051.15754@news.weeg.uiowa.edu> smills@news.weeg.uiowa.edu (MuffinHead) writes:
}gre253@mis.csiro.au (Steven Green (+61 6 276 6813)) writes:
}
}>I have often seen adds for these black rubber CD rings in hi-fi magazines and
}>thought nothing of them. Yesterday I borrowed an "Audio test" CD from a freind.
}>It had one of these on it. The music tracks on this CD sound great. I tried
}>it without the ring and could not detect any difference.
}>Whats the feeling of people out there regarding these rings. Are they simply
}>another snake-oil remedy or do they actually work ?
}
}   The only thing they DO do is keep the edges from chipping if you happen
}to drop the CD on concrete. They do NOTHING for the sound. It's another
}Green Magic Marker phenomenon.

As a matter of fact, they may actually ruin the sound.  The mass of the
CD is part of a servo loop that controls the speed of the disc.  This is
a negative feedback loop.  Adding mass to the CD just may cause this
loop to become unstable.  It probably won't, because there is
undoubtedly a large phase margin in the loop.  But it might! 
-- 

Norm Strong  (strong@tc.fluke.com)
2528 31st S.   Seattle WA 98144   USA