From: stanley@verga.enet.dec.com (Rising of the Light)
Newsgroups: alt.magick
Subject: Re: Singin' Those Apocalypse Blues
Date: 17 Dec 92 15:09:14 GMT
Organization: Digital Equipment Corporation


In article <1992Dec16.200810.3828@sobeco.com>, ladislas@sobeco.com (Ladislas A.) writes...
>I wrote:
>>>This civilization is gangrenous.  Like the Phoenix, it must immolate itself
>>>to be reborn from its ashes.  The collapse of the roman civilization didn't
>>>wipe out all existing knowledge as some fear would happen should ours collapse.
>>>I'd say the collapse of the roman civ. paved the way for our civilization.
>>>I heard somewhere that when something dies, it favors the birth of something
>>>new.
> 
>You (stanley@verga) respond:
> 
>>Oh... well then why don't we just throw ourselves on the pyre like the other
>>dorks.
> 
>*If* you consider yourself a dork...  I, on the other hand, consider myself
>a survivalist.  Civilization is just a structure by which I have lived for
>some time.  I choose to remain even if the structure must collapse.

So do the rest of us.

>>>In our century, we have become obsessed with keeping death away at all cost.
>>>How many terminally ill patients await their death in sufferings because we
>>>might find someday, a way to cure them?  Some are prepared to suffer in the
>>>hope that they can be cured.  Some would be content to die but they are
>>>robbed of that freedom.  Lately, euthanasia (sp?) as been granted to some
>>>people.  My opinion is that our civilization is terminally ill.  Refusing
>>>to let it die when its time's up might only cause greater suffering.
> 
>>Oh yea?  What if you're just another idiot?  Then we allowed out civilization
>>to die for nothing.
> 
>If I'm just another "idiot" as you say, then I can't possibly be right and time
>will prove me wrong.
> 
>Since I'm prepared to face the possibility that you're right, I'm willing to
>consider your plan for world salvation.  Have you got a spell to make it all
>better?

It could be guided through if we pooled our mutual talents and were able to
identify the critical trigger events that set the spiral in motion.... once
we identify the trigger events we might... and I stress *might* be able to
avoid them or reconfigure them.  Certainly not something a single magickian
could do but it's possible that a team of them could do it.

Anything's possible in the land of the living.

>>>>>... problem with the human specy really is: greed.
> 
>>Some people are greedy... some aren't.
> 
>I can't disagree with you here.
> 
>>>I find it hard to believe that even magick can have such worldwide effects.
> 
>>Then you're not much of a magickian, are you?
> 
>I'm not a "magickian" at all.  In the sense that I don't practice ceremonies.
>But then again, I never pretended I was.  I just consider myself open-minded
>enough to accept that magick exists.  But I'm not so foolish as to think that
>magick is omnipotence.
> 
>Ladislas.

Well I don't practice ceremonies either, Ladislas... and I'm not so foolish as
to think that magick is all omnipotent all the time.  But it doesn't take being
right all the time to accomplish an objective... just that once, Ladislas...
just that one time... and then another one... and then maybe we dust off those
rusty strings just one more time.. and we make then shine...

That's all it takes...  Chaos loves company...