HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: kc2w+@andrew.cmu.edu (Kevin J. Chen)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.animation
Subject: Re: BTAS: silly villians
Date: 14 Dec 92 17:56:48 GMT
Distribution: na
Organization: Junior, Electrical and Computer Engineering, Carnegie Mellon, Pittsburgh, PA

Phil Mueller @b30news.b3 sez:

>BUT, some of the bad guys are utterly silly.  A werewolf??  Man-bat??
>Mr. Freeze??  The guy in Feat of Clay??  The first two violate, among other 
>things, the first law of thermodynamics.  Mr. Freeze:  earth biochemistry 
>can't function below the freezing point of water ( the organisms in the
>polar regions heat themselves up ).  

>I'm not even going to discuss Feat of Clay ( except to mention one good
>thing -- the bad guy escapes at the end, proving that Batman is only human ).

>If they would just get rid of this silliness, the series would be
>much better ( IMNSHO ).

Arguments such as this are (IMO) much sillier than any of the violations
of scientific law that are depicted in the series.  You claim that
Batman is a believable character -- you therefore assume that it is
possible for a man to be so driven that he has devoted his entire life
to the pursuit of justice, and dresses up like a giant bat, to boot. 
The fact that no one has done this in real life demonstrates that this
is, after all, a fiction, and that you're simply willing to accept that
a psychological profile such as Bruce Wayne's can exist.

A similar argument can be used in terms of the science-related content
of the series.  Villains such as Man-Bat or Mr. Freeze postulate (in
comic-book science) that biologies *could* exist such that these
characters are possible (although Clayface's continual loss of mass was
a bit disturbing).  Star Trek postulates the existence of FTL travel; is
that silly, too?

It is also relevant to note that many of these characters were created
in the early days of the comic books, before "realism" became an
important part of the plotting process in comics.

Kevin.
Newsgroups: rec.arts.animation
From: conty@cbnewsl.cb.att.com (E. Kontei)
Subject: Re: Anime will destroy animation as we know it... NOT!!!
Organization: AT&T Bell Laboratories
Date: Thu, 17 Dec 1992 15:55:46 GMT

In article <n11f9t@ofa123.fidonet.org>, Kevin.Kline@ofa123.fidonet.org writes:
>  EK> If you want animation to thrive the way it has elsewhere, you have to
>  EK> diversify.  You have to provide not just the "family entertainment"
>  EK> stuff, but also real-life drama, SF, action-adventure, "art" films,
>  EK> etc.  Yes, that also includes the "girls with guns" B-movie genre,
>  EK> and even animated "porn".  Something for everyone.
> 
[...]
> Afterall, if people think of that junk even in Japan as kids-stuff, what
> makes you think people here (who have a worse tendancy to think animation is
> just for kids)

<THUD!!!>

Read my article again.  Slowly.  The reason that people over here think
that animation is "just for kids" is that people like YOU scream to high
heaven whenever something that ISN'T a chidren's film gets released.
You dug your grave, now lie in it.

> And LAPUTA is one of my favorite pieces of anime
> from that famous Miyazaki (his works would be perfect in terms of showing
> people more mature animation and getting people convinced that more mature
> stuff can be done).

HOLD IT RIGHT THERE.  Miyazaki is (IMO) the most gifted animation director
alive today, but he does children's films.  Don't forget that.

Some people don't like children's films, no matter how good they are.  Thus,
they don't like Miyazaki.  Nothing wrong with that, is there?  There HAS to
be variety in order to attract those people.
-- 
			    E n r i q u e  C o n t y
			The Incredible Man-with-no-Life
			      jester@ihlpm.att.com
		    Disclaimer: You're not dealing with AT&T
Newsgroups: rec.arts.animation
From: ferret@paradox.engin.umich.edu (kenneth r lipka)
Subject: Re: Cameo in _Aladdin_
Date: Mon, 14 Dec 92 10:48:27 EST
Organization: University of Michigan Engineering, Ann Arbor
Originator: ferret@paradox.engin.umich.edu


In article <4f_rjim00ioWAR6Uci@andrew.cmu.edu>, Edward Liu <el24+@andrew.cmu.edu> writes:
>>    In the scene where the Sultan is stacking up the little animals
> (right before Jafar suggests himself as the husband to Jasmine),
> look closely at the stack of animals.  There's one in there with the
> head of the Beast from _Beauty and the Beast_.
> 

	Also, after Aladdin asked the Big G to make him a prince and the Big G is looking through a "Royal Cookbook", take a close look at what he pulled out for Alaskan King Crab (just remember to hum "Under The Sea").

	Ken Lipka
	ferret@engin.umich.edu
From: Kevin.Kline@ofa123.fidonet.org
Newsgroups: rec.arts.animation
Subject: WHAT?????
X-Sender: newtout 0.02 Nov 17 1992
Date: 16 Dec 92  05:16:56

 M> FYI, rec.arts.anime existed long before 
 M> rec.arts.animation and yes it is still
 M> around.... rec.arts.animation was created since it 
 M> was felt non-anime was
 M> unwelcome on rec.arts.anime... which was untrue, but oh well...
 I thought it was the other way around!!!  I thought because the people in
rec.arts.animation were tired of all the anime fans talking about anime in
general (especially the ones promoting "girls with guns", blood and gore
stuff) that rec.arts.anime was created for that purpose...
 :)
 I think this SUB is for discussing and debating all forms of animation...
Afterall I know that Disney animation has it's own sub (Wish they carried it
here on this BBS I call!!), Tiny Toon Adventures has it's own sub, and I know 
a different net has a Simpsons sub.  
 I also think this SUB is to give opinions on different types of animatio
(like we are now) and to see what other people think about different types of 
animation and compare and see what people think is better or how animation
will be affected in general.
 I know a lot of you here are from rec.arts.anime and probably from the
different special subs for certain types of animation.  Glad to see we can all 
be here on this sub to talk about the differences and similarties of the
different animations we do like.  
 Glad to see there is a split in the subs though for special kinds of
animation.  It seems that animation is quite popular (heck a sub for just
TTA?)

--- Maximus 2.00
Newsgroups: rec.arts.animation
From: ij59@vaxb.acs.unt.edu
Subject: Re: Poor writing in anime (Was: Cheap animation)
Organization: University of North Texas
Date: Fri, 18 Dec 1992 00:45:14 GMT

In article <n11f5t@ofa123.fidonet.org>, Kevin.Kline@ofa123.fidonet.org writes:
> [...]
>  This is what turns many people off to anime.  When people think about anime, 
> they think about those saucer-eye characters with all those white specs.
> [...]  If the biggest 
> offending animators in Japan who draw up the characters with a large # of
> white specs would cut down to just 1 white spec per eye, I think more people
> won't be as turned off to anime...The thing you can't do is to put so many white specs it 
> seems the eye as multiple eyeballs/pupils.  That is what people are turned off 
> by.

Interesting.

While a few people here have mentioned a dislike for excesively complicated or
"speckled" eyes, I have yet to meet anyone (on the net or otherwise) who was so
turned off by eye styles that they avoided anime because of it.  But it sounds
like you apparently have.  Where do you get this impression from? (Besides
your own feeling that everyone must have the same personal tastes that you do.
(Heh.  Mild flame, sorry.))
 ________    _______              _
|______  |  |_____  |            | |    | Nippon no anime wa ichi-ban desu!
      / /         | |  _  _   _  |  \   |   Hey, man, I _like_ Robotech.
     /  \         | | |_||_| / / |   \  |----------------------------------
    / /\ \   _____| |   ____/ /  | |\ \ |   Sukotto Miraa/Scott Miller
   /_/  \_\ |_______|  |_____/   |_| \/ |      ij59@vaxb.acs.unt.edu
From: emru@CAM.ORG (Emru Townsend)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.animation
Subject: Re: Defending anime (was Re: Cheap animation)
Date: 12 Dec 92 08:52:09 GMT
Organization: MegaCorp Central Complex

In article <n1111t@ofa123.fidonet.org> Kevin.Kline@ofa123.fidonet.org writes:
> HD> Ranma 1/2 and Lum are not sex-epics..  They are kids shows.
> They are???  You mean those 2 shows are aimed at children or teen-age/college 
>age fanboys?  I would be shocke if they were aime at children considering the 
>nudity I have heard in Ranma 1/2.  (I'll check and see how Lum is with
>"Beautiful Dreamer").

Nudity does not have to mean sex.

And just what is it with you and the word "slut", anyway?  To be honest,
you're making it hard to endear yourself when you throw that word around
so casually.
-- 
This message is brought to you by     |    Emru Townsend  BIX: switch
MACHEESMO, a MAN's kind of cheese!    |    emru@cam.org   Fido: 1:167/133
From: emru@CAM.ORG (Emru Townsend)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.animation
Subject: Re: Perception of Japanimation
Date: 16 Dec 92 05:45:43 GMT
Organization: MegaCorp Central Complex

In article <n11act@ofa123.fidonet.org> Kevin.Kline@ofa123.fidonet.org writes:
> BB> I still fail to see how bad anime can hurt the animation industry.  Do
> BB> bad movies hurt the film industry, bad TV shows the 
> BB> television industry,
> BB> bad books the publishing industry, or bad 
> BB> net.postings the internet news
> BB> hierarchy?
> I can see where bad anime can hurt the animation industry... It is because
>animation isn't quite established here in this country (despite the 3 recent
>Disney animated films) and if we continue to allow trash like "girls with
>guns" and bloody violence to continue.  It will turn off many people to
>animation and you could be looking at an animation drought.  Put it this way, 
>you mentioned TV... Well all the BAD TV shows the last several years has hurt 
>TV in general (MORE people are renting videos and going out to movies instead 
>and TV viewership is WAY DOWN).
> Well if bad animation were to continue, wouldn't you say that viewership of
>animation would be WAY DOWN?  

But...

T'n'A shows didn't kill television,
Jason/Freddy/Chuckie films didn't kill cinema...
Sex comics didn't kill comic books...
Death-metal didn't kill the rock music industry...

I wouldn't worry about it to that extent.  At worst, viewership of Japanese
animation will decline--and even that's doubtful.
-- 
This message is brought to you by     |    Emru Townsend  BIX: switch
MACHEESMO, a MAN's kind of cheese!    |    emru@cam.org   Fido: 1:167/133
Newsgroups: rec.arts.animation
From: conty@cbnewsl.cb.att.com (E. Kontei)
Subject: BRAVE LITTLE TOASTER and THE SNOWMAN (was Re: Perception...)
Organization: AT&T Bell Laboratories
Date: Fri, 18 Dec 1992 17:07:49 GMT

In article <1992Dec18.135246.11801@cas.org>, lwv26@cas.org (Larry W. Virden) writes:
> 
> For those of you who HAVE seen it - what anime would you classify as being
> of similar visual, auditory and mentally stimulating equvilence?

I haven't seen BLT, but it doesn't strike me as something a Japanese
director would do.  For starters, antrophomorphic characters are a lot
less common in Japan than over here.

About THE SNOWMAN, no, nothing comes close in anime (well, maybe KIKI'S
DELIVERY SERVICE, but that's a different kind of feelgood film).  Goes to
show that anime is not the end-all be-all of animation... :-)

-- 
			    E n r i q u e  C o n t y
			       Master of Science!
			      jester@ihlpm.att.com
		    Disclaimer: You're not dealing with AT&T
Xref: sparky rec.arts.animation:6996 rec.arts.anime:27419
From: rnlee@sdcc3.ucsd.edu (Profess'nal Agitator)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.animation,rec.arts.anime
Subject: Re: Defending anime (was Re: Cheap animation)
Date: 18 Dec 92 18:02:43 GMT
Followup-To: rec.arts.animation
Organization: MAWL - Mudd Alums Without Lives

In article <1992Dec17.134901.3862@digi.lonestar.org> emartine@digi.lonestar.org (Edgar Martinez Martinez) writes:
>I'm new to Japanese animation so... are you serious? Why is the word
>"Japanimation" considered inappropiate? "Japanese Animation", "Japanimation",
>sounds good to me, all they are are animated films made in Japan...For that
>matter, why do they call it "anime" and not just "cartoons" or "animated
>films"? How the heck do you pronounce "anime" anyways? Did I miss a joke
>somewhere?

Not everyone is inclined to pronounce it Japan-imation.  Some see it
and pronounce (whether intentionally or not) JapAnimation.  See the problem?

As for "anime," it is a term the Japanese took from French to refer to
all animation.  English-speakers then co-opted it to refer to a
predominant style of Japanese animation.

Agitator
  #->

Take Back the GOP // for the Future:    Dornan/Matalin--Attack Team '96!!
-----------------//---- R E M E M B E R   B E I J I N G -----------------
Only AMIGA!  \\ //   IBM PC  -  Who wants a politically correct computer?
==============\X/==================== Bring Back the Caltech Cannon!! ===
Roderick Lee, HMC '91    "The Professional Agitator"    agitator@ucsd.edu
Newsgroups: rec.arts.animation
From: avatar@wings.micro.umn.edu (Timothy Fay)
Subject: Re: Defending anime (was Re: Cheap animation)
Organization: University of Minnesota
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1 PL6]
Date: Mon, 14 Dec 1992 07:15:24 GMT

Ray Rooney (ray.rooney@satalink.com) wrote:
>
>I am not betting on it being shown. Some guy at a con claimed it had
>been test-run (like Samarai Pizza Cats, I guess)

Which is also available on home video...

--
		Reply to:  avatar@wings.micro.umn.edu

  "My mental facilities are TWICE what yours are -- you pea brain!"
			-Percival MacLeach
From: dvandom@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (Dave Van Domelen)
Subject: Re: School House Rock
Organization: The Ohio State University
Date: Fri, 11 Dec 1992 19:07:42 GMT

As a study break last night while (vainly) studying for my E&M final, I watched
my Science Rock tape.  And when I was done, I immediately drew my version of 
Interplanet Janet, in comicbook style.  Looks like Koriand'r with more 
clothing.
     Dave Van Domelen, making "ack, ack" noises after his final
Newsgroups: rec.arts.animation
From: cmeadows@nyx.cs.du.edu (Chris Meadows)
Subject: Re: Japanimation reviews con't (may contain SPOILERS)
X-Disclaimer: Nyx is a public access Unix system run by the University
	of Denver for the Denver community.  The University has neither
	control over nor responsibility for the opinions of users.
Organization: Nyx, Public Access Unix at U. of Denver Math/CS dept.
Date: Wed, 16 Dec 92 01:18:50 GMT


Let me get this straight.  People are selling off their CD-Roms
because saucer-eyed girls happen to appear in some of the video
games?

HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA (five minutes worth of solid laughter)
HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA!!!!!  

Oh, thanks, Kevin; you've just given me the best laugh I've ever
had in a wrong time.  Like I'm going to go out and get a huge, 
expensive CD-Rom drive for umpteen hundred or thousand dollars, 
then sell it off again (at a tremendous loss of money) because 
some of the video games happen to contain saucer-eyed girls.  Like
ANYBODY is.  Yaright.

--
Chris Meadows  | Editor of Robotech: The Misfold; author of other               
CHM173S@SMSVMA | Robotech/Rifts stories; DEFENDER of PALLADIUM BOOKS!!!         
CHM173S@VMA.SMSU.EDU   | NOTE: I will be on vacation 12/17 to 1/10; if          
CMEADOWS@NYX.CS.DU.EDU | important, please email; posts tend to expire.
From: Kevin.Kline@ofa123.fidonet.org
Newsgroups: rec.arts.animation
Subject: Re: Kevin-style Aladdin review (thanks Ryan!)
X-Sender: newtout 0.02 Nov 17 1992
Date: 16 Dec 92  05:26:14

 LGB> The difference between "Somewhere out there" and a song like "Beauty
 LGB> and the Beast" is that you could take the former 
 LGB> as something completely
 LGB> independent from the movie.  If you had never 
 LGB> heard of "An American Tale"
 LGB> and heard "Somewhere.." on the radio, you'd just 
 LGB> think it was a new love 
 LGB> song, not having any clue that it was sung by 
 LGB> brother and sister mouse 
 LGB> children.  There is no reference in the song to 
 LGB> the movie;  the song is
 LGB> therefore somewhat independent of the movie.  
 LGB> Obviously, Beauty and the
 LGB> Beast (song) is blatantly linked to the movie, 
 LGB> with references to the movie
 LGB> from the title to the things expressed (barely 
 LGB> even friends, then somebody
 I'm not sure if this is true, but I think "Somewhere..." was NEVER written
FOR "An American Tale" but rather just a song they put in that seemed to fit. 
 Since, as you said, the song doesn't have much to do with the movie "An
American Tale" and there aren't any references to the movie. Whereas, "Beauty 
and the Beast" it is quite obvious (and why I consdier that the first song
writtern for an animated feature to become EXTREMELY POPULAR when it sold in
the top 10 in terms of sales!).

--- Maximus 2.00
Newsgroups: rec.arts.animation
From: vgriscep@wam.umd.edu (VGR (Craig Pell))
Subject: Re: Return of the Transformer Toys
Organization: University of Maryland, College Park
Distribution: na
Date: Tue, 15 Dec 1992 00:33:09 GMT

In article <Bz8LE4.BsC@rice.edu> swaim@owlnet.rice.edu (Michael Parks Swaim) writes:
>>>
>>>>Four Autobots will be released.
>>>
>>>	Why only four!!?!?!?!?!??
>>
>>Don't wanna flood the market.  Think about what happened last time.
>  They started releasing really bad toys, and people refused to buy them?

Not IMHO.  Actually, some of the newer figures were quite nice.  I admit the
Micromasters and Action Masters were shoddy (although the comic had a good
explanation in the works for the Action Masters), but ... there were some good
ones.
What I think happened is there were too *many*, and instead of encouraging
people to "collect them all," it made people realize they were being
suckered, that Hasbro was just churning out products to make as much money as
possible.  There were way too many Transformers coming out each year, and
neither the show nor the comic could keep up.  Notice the small Autobots,
like Pipes, Swerve and Tailgate (Tailgate would have been a *great* TV
character), didn't get any time on the show except in "Five Faces of 
Darkness"?  Notice the Monsterbots never appeared in "Rebirth"?  And for
that matter, the Clones and Punch/Counterpunch didn't get a quarter the time
they deserved.  There were just too many Transformers.  And people started
realizing that the show and comic were being forced to become one big
commercial ... which is how a lot of people remember the show now.  :-(
-- 
      | $000C35FA                  <>-----=------------------------=----=----<>
 VGR  | (1812 Overture)            | "The size of the brain is no measure of  |
      | I GIVE UP                  | its capacity."   - Mr. Jonathan Frisby   |
      | YOU MUST BE A  VIDEO WHIZ  <>-----=---------=------------------------<>
From: dcb@wdl1.wdl.loral.com (Predecrement David)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.animation
Subject: Re: Defending anime (was Re: Cheap animation)
Date: 18 Dec 92 23:20:08 GMT
Organization: Gokuraku Videos

rnlee@sdcc3.ucsd.edu (Profess'nal Agitator) writes:
>
>As for "anime," it is a term the Japanese took from French to refer to
>all animation.

That is open for debate.  The Japanese language is recognized to have taken
a number of "modern" English words, and shortened/modified them to suit...

Wapuro = Word Processor
Conputaa = Computer
Biru = Building (?)

--David

"Anime" (Jp) from "anime" (Fr) is satisfying.  It's easy to fall for such
elegant etymological false starts.  Often, the origin of a word is not what
we prefer.  (No, I do not prefer the "animation" origin side of the debate.)
I am merely pointing out that I have not seen conclusive evidence.

+----------------------------------------------+----------------+-----+ 
| David Blume            | "..." "A, Ayukawa!" |  "Moemichan!   |  o  |
| dcb@wdl1.wdl.loral.com | "Kasuga-kuun..."    |   SUKIDA!!"    | ^_^ |
+----------------------------------------------+----------------+-----+
Newsgroups: rec.arts.animation
From: doi@jrd.dec.com (Hitoshi Doi)
Subject: Re: Japanimation reviews con't (may contain SPOILERS)
Organization: DEC Japan Research and Development Center
Date: Tue, 15 Dec 1992 03:44:43 GMT

In article <n118ct@ofa123.fidonet.org>, Kevin.Kline@ofa123.fidonet.org writes:
# > that did things that suggested she was a lesbian!!!!!
#  U> Big deal.
#  BIG DEAL???  Oh boy, so now let's have lesbianism in animation!!  We have
# already gone far enough have we???

I think you have a major misunderstanding of where anime fits in.
It is just another entertainment media.

Just like there are TV series with humans in them for babies, kids,
teenagers, college kids, adults, seniors, the same exists in anime.
There is no difference between TV series and movies with human actors
and anime series and movies with anime characters..
Why should there be any difference?

Doesn't lesbianism exist on American TV?  It does in Japanese TV
and it does in anime..  There's no problem.

#  And don't tell me this stuff is made for the homosexual audience either...
# That's like saying "girls for guns" anime is for females... Complete BS.  
#  I also heard some of the prono animation and comics over there were
# lesbianism dominated... Is THIS TRUE?  

Probably.  There is no difference between porno with humans
in them and porno with anime girls and guys in them.

--
Hitoshi Doi, International Open Systems Engineering        doi@jrd.dec.com
Japan Research and Development Center               decwrl!jrd.dec.com!doi
Digital Equipment Corporation Japan      [from Japan: doi@jrd.dec-j.co.jp]
From: rjung@phakt.usc.edu (Robert A. Jung)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.animation
Subject: Re: GI Joe episodes--the "films"
Date: 12 Dec 1992 16:20:11 -0800
Organization: Southern California Lynx Enthusiasts
NNTP-Posting-Host: phakt.usc.edu

Sorry, GROSS memory lapse there. I thought "Arise, Serpentor, Arise" == "G.I.
Joe: The Movie", and now a deeper part of my memory tells me it was not. For
some reason, I blotted out all appearances of Serpentor before the movie, and
thought he was introduced there for some reason. Just ignore my earlier post.

(That's what I get for writing articles before breakfast...  B-)

                                                --R.J.
                                                B-)

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From: Kevin.Kline@ofa123.fidonet.org
Newsgroups: rec.arts.animation
Subject: Hayao Miyazaki list (was Re: Defending anime)
Date: 11 Dec 92 23:01:36 GMT
X-Sender: newtout 0.02 Nov 17 1992


 C> A listserv list means you have to subscribe to it by 
 C> mail.  All posts are
 C> sent to subscribers by mail (unless your system has 
 C> some sort of central
 C> news system for listserv lists).  To post something, you send mail to
 C> the list's location.  One note--People can get _very 
 C> annoyed_ if someone posts
 C> and posts and posts because the list is distributed by mail, and thus
 C> if someone is subscribed to many listserv lists, their mailers fill up
 C> real quick.
 Thanks for the information on that.  I look forward to subscribing to your
listserv net on Miyazaki stuff!! (First time I have seen E-mail being used for 
"posts" though!!)

--- Maximus 2.00
Newsgroups: rec.arts.animation