HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.cinema-l
Date:         Wed, 16 Dec 1992 11:27:13 -0500
From:         Ens Alexander W Ellermann <ellerman@NORFOLK.NADN.NAVY.MIL>
Subject:      Angels for Dinner

This movie, AN ANGEL AT MY TABLE, sounds fascinating.  Has anyone
seen it on video?  If so, what are your comments on that version?

                              He of the ever-lengthening "must see" list,
                                                                 Alex
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Date:         Fri, 18 Dec 1992 08:36:47 -0500
From:         FAC_JCLARK@JMUVAX.BITNET
Subject:      Re: Deferred presence, PoMo

Rick,

I don't recall that any of us really got into discussion related to the
lengthy definitions of PoMo you posted before turning off your mail.  But I
will tell you I was working with a couple of students at the time and found
good occasion to pass along a printout of your defs to one of them while
they were working on papers for their class.

I quite agree with the gist of this posting, but have only one comment here
that's humorous at my expense.  There was a time I went through film school,
but was more addicted to literature, my first love.  I came out convinced
that the narrative film was not an art form--at least a major one; and the
fact that it was often touted at the major art form of the 20th C only
demonstrated why our civilization is in such trouble!  (Yes, I was provocative
and perverse, even then.)  If you're going to tell stories, I held, film
couldn't hold a candle to literature.  The only proper realm for film art
is the abstract film... which, of course, with all the advantages of living
and studying in NYC, I still never felt inclined to seek out much. Now, of
course, there's hardly a doubt from the sentiments I've exposed on this list
that that was another person who no longer thinks the way he did.  Maybe I'm
just entirely too generous in middle age....

Jeff Clark
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Date:         Mon, 14 Dec 1992 09:55:00 CST
From:         Rolando Recometa <$W$LB4P@LUCCPUA.BITNET>
Subject:      Re: Hook

Joe,
   Hook came out last year, and I consider it one of last year's
turkeys. Hook was just another version of the yuppie-gets-a-heart
syndrome that plagued Hollywood last year - Regarding Henry(another
turkey), Doc Hollywood, City Slickers, The Doctor, to name a few.
In Spielberg's hands, however, you get the usual big-bucks treatment -
lavish special effects; huge, overbusy sets; overwrought music; and
big, expensive stars who have nothing to do but react to a "blue screen"
and look overwhelmed. Robin Williams as Peter Pan is earnest and dull.
Dustin Hoffman is funny but lacks the necessary menace. And Julia
Roberts as Tinker Bell, despite her tiny presence and brief screen time,
manages to ruin every scene she's in. Hook is strictly for kids and the
Peter Pans of the world who refuse to grow up.
                                              Rolando
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Date:         Thu, 17 Dec 1992 11:13:35 -0600
From:         JACKSOSM@VUCTRVAX.BITNET
Subject:      Re: j-man & purchase recommendations

JC,

Thanks for the consumer purchasing advice.  I need to go look at some
screens before thinking about this anymore.

j-man
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Date:         Fri, 18 Dec 1992 15:17:44 -0500
From:         S1MBM@ISUVAX.BITNET
Subject: Andrei Rublev: pomo iconicity?

What's with Andrie Rublev?  Has anyone here seen it?  I rented it last night
thinking it sounded intriguing from the description on the back.  I haven't
finished watching it yet, but thus far it really seems like a parody of itself,
pomo style.  Perhaps if one comes to the film already deeply familiar with
the story of Rublev the thing makes wonderful sense, but as one who does not
know that story, the thing looks to me like a sort of pomo parody of Bergman,
which might be fine if it didn't seem to take itself seriously at the same
time . . . Didn't Tarkovsky also do that film *Sacrifice* about a nuclear
apocalypse?  I found *that* to be bad Bergman as well . . . Oh well . . .

Still and always a lover of Bergman, Ingmar that is,
michael mcdonald
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Date:         Tue, 15 Dec 1992 09:22:00 CST
From:         Rolando Recometa <$W$LB4P@LUCCPUA.BITNET>
Subject:      Re: The Crying Game

Yes, Neil Jordan's The Crying Game got the LA Crix award for
Best Foreign Film.
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Date:         Wed, 16 Dec 1992 16:27:00 -0600
From:         JACKSOSM@VUCTRVAX.BITNET
Subject:      Re: This year's turkey awards

>
>How about listing 1992 turkeys?
>

>>  BATMAN RETURNS.  To Tim Burton and Warners: P L E A S E -- don't make anothe
   r
>>one!

I'd like to add my plea to the universal filmmaker regarding WAYNE'S WORLD--
please, God, no sequel.  One was plenty.

j-man
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Date:         Mon, 14 Dec 1992 12:47:52 -0500
From:         FAC_JCLARK@JMUVAX.BITNET
Subject:      Re: Laserdisc top of the month

Jim,
Could it be that Elsie the Cow bought it at that "killer intersection" in
the Virgin Megastore parking structure?

Seriously, though, your tip on BALLAD OF A SOLDIER sounds worth checking out.
I'll be searching for a used copy at discount.
JC
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Date:         Tue, 15 Dec 1992 08:42:00 PST
From:         THOMPSON@UCRVMS.BITNET
Subject:      Keaton

(Steamboat Bill does indeed have a Jr.)

Try OUR HOSPITALITY, also starring Natalie Talmadge, then Mrs. Keaton.
You'll never ride a train again.  (Actually, this being 1992 America,
you won't in any event.)  It's available in a great laserdisc edition.

Jim Thompson
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Date:         Fri, 11 Dec 1992 15:43:34 -0600
From:         CDOMS@UMKCVAX1.BITNET
Subject:      Re: ALIEN3 A TURKEY?

You guys should have read the flame wars on this movie on SF-Lovers-Movies
list.  Either folks really liked or hated this movie.

I hated this movie, more so, because I felt it was a mean spirited movie.
It was (IMHO) demeaning to the characters we had gotten to know from
Aliens.

The visuals were good, slick, the art direction was decent.  It would have
been better if it was a monster movie instead of another sequel to two
movies I did like and respect.

I would truely like to see a movie with Sigouney, waking up and finding
Bien in the shower. Alien3 (as far as I am concerned) shouldn't have
been made.

Carol Doms
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Date:         Wed, 16 Dec 1992 17:23:00 GMT
From:         John Smyth <eeijsh@EEIUC.ERICSSON.SE>
Subject:      John and Grand Canyon

><<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
 Or you might get lucky.  Through it all, I think Kasden believes that
> love has a redemptive power to heal.  Not an original idea, but
> certainly not fatalistic, either.
>
> j-man

I'm not doubting Kasdan's sincerity -  I just think the movie labours the
point. Lots of slow-motion shots of people staring into space having deep
 thoughts
etc. And as for Mary McDonnell........

John Smyth
From: FISHERKJ@SNYONEVA.BITNET
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Subject: Full Metal hankies
Date: 15 Dec 92 16:26:21 GMT
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Most of the six handkiers we've mentioned have left me
yodelling with derision rather than weeping bitter tears.
The only post-1980 movies I can recall that left me a
little choky were THE RIGHT STUFF and FULL METAL JACKET.
(no kidding).

I realize these may not be common choices -- but then again,
I also felt the lids a-brimming when the ape discovered the
bone-tool in 2001. (I was relieved to hear that Chaplin also
cried at 2001. But Chaplin cried at card tricks.)

In other matters: register another vote for Laurel & Hardy, and
a distinct but not overwhelming preference for Keaton over Chaplin.

kjf-
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Date:         Tue, 15 Dec 1992 16:37:09 -0600
From:         JACKSOSM@VUCTRVAX.BITNET
Subject:      Re: Dracula

JC,

My impression is that letterboxing and/or windowboxing isn't nearly as
prevalent in VHS format as it is in laserdisc.  Is this because the
general video renting audience doesn't like this method of framing, or
is it because letterboxing forces an additional expense in the video
transfer from film to VHS, hence higher costs and lower sales?

I watched a letterboxed version of SPARTACUS on VHS recently, and it
was annoying until after the first hour, then I got used to it.

On a related matter, what happens to the image when a film shot in 70mm
is projected in 35mm?  Is everything compressed, or do we get a cropped
version of the original?  I realize this question was probably dealt
with in the past, but I missed the discussion.

j-man
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Date:         Thu, 17 Dec 1992 08:46:56 -0600
From:         JACKSOSM@VUCTRVAX.BITNET
Subject:      Re: Dracula

Sony XBR?  Sounds hi-tech.  I'll look into it.
Thanks to kjf for the suggestion.

j-man
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Date:         Tue, 15 Dec 1992 09:56:30 EST
From:         Scott Huddle <grass@CHAOS.ENTO.VT.EDU>
Subject: Re: L.A. Film Critics Awards

>Best Supporting Actress - Judy Davis, _Husbands and Wives_

YESSSS!  Woo woo woo.

--
-scott
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Date:         Fri, 11 Dec 1992 12:56:46 -0400
From:         FISHERKJ@SNYONEVA.BITNET
Subject:      Re: ESCHATOLOGY

>Can you summarize the final chapter
>of the unexpurgated edition [of CLOCKWORK ORANGE]?

Both the movie and the American edition end as Alex triumphs
over his Ludovico conditioning and revels in a porno-violent
daydream.

In the original last chapter (as I fuzzily remember it) Alex,
who has been narrating, brings us up to the present -- he is
older, either married or hoping to be married, and reflects
on his misspent youth. Or some such.

Footnotes To History: Why did Burgess agree to this amputation?
He had been diagnosed (1960ish) with a brain tumor and given a
year to live. To provide for his family, he dashed off five books
during that year, CLOCKWORK among them. He was willing to take the
money and run. He didn't die -- lucky us. He sold the rights to
CLOCKWORK for, I think, $500. The original producer envisioned
Mick Jagger & the Stones in the lead roles.

kjf-
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Date:         Tue, 15 Dec 1992 12:52:14 -0500
From:         HLC2@PSUADMIN.BITNET
Subject:      Listserv info

Hi:

I can't seem to find the paper on which I wrote the address of this listserv.
Can somebody help me out?

Much appreciated!

Heather
<HLC2@PSUADMIN>
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Date:         Tue, 15 Dec 1992 16:31:34 -0400
From:         FISHERKJ@SNYONEVA.BITNET
Subject:      Re: Alien 3, not a turkey but....

>But, man, was it ever dark.  There were interior
>shots where you could barely see who was in the scene.
>I don't think it was the print, but I can't be sure.

A common plaint these days -- vide. BATMAN.

I think the prime culprit here is the almost universal use of cheap
quartz lamps in projectors instead of ole-fashioned superbright
(but power-gobbling) carbon arcs.

Most of the films that seem too dark in theatres look fine on TV,
even though NTSC video has a far narrower range of contrast than film.
The prints may be darker as well, if the labs are using cheap lamps
in their optical printers.

kjf-
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Date:         Fri, 11 Dec 1992 22:29:45 -0500
From:         S1MBM@ISUVAX.BITNET
Subject:      Re: Alien3 and spoilage

Some machine somewhere garbled my message, which was supposed to say "If you
see a film title in the subject heading whose ending you don't want to see
discussed delete the gosh darn message unread.  As if *only* the ending of
a film would warrant a SPOILER!  What are films, vicarious orgasms?

michael mcdonald
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Date:         Fri, 11 Dec 1992 09:10:21 PDT
From:         DU013@OASIS.CALPOLY.EDU
Subject:      dubbing in censorship
              11 Dec 1992 09:48:54 -0500 from Ens Alexander W Ellermann
              <ellerman@NORFOLK.NADN.NAVY.MIL>

From:  Mary Shaffer
       Assistant to the Vice President
       Information Systems
I think most often the editors just "steal" words from other scenes and
dub them into the censored lines.

Thanks,
Mary
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Date:         Tue, 15 Dec 1992 14:41:49 -0500
From:         FAC_JCLARK@JMUVAX.BITNET
Subject:      Au revoir, Liam...

Rather than goodbye.  I hope we'll be entertained by your commentary again
in the not-to-distant future.  For now, best of luck.  JC
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Date:         Wed, 16 Dec 1992 15:11:29 GMT
From:         John Smyth <eeijsh@EEIUC.ERICSSON.SE>
Subject:      Depiction of mental illness, etc

Hi Rolando,
You mentioned the young actor who portrayed Christy Brown as a child
in "My Left Foot". His name is Hugh O'Connor and he did win an award for
his performance in "My Left Foot". The award was for best 'youth' performance
that year, but I can't remember who actually presented the awards. O'Connor
also co-starred with Liam Neeson in "Lamb".

John Smyth
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From: MKERBEL@YaleVM.YCC.Yale.Edu (Michael)
Subject: Re: This year's turkey awards
Organization: Yale University
Date: Wed, 16 Dec 92 14:28:01 EST

>
>How about listing 1992 turkeys?
>
  BATMAN RETURNS.  To Tim Burton and Warners: P L E A S E -- don't make another
one!
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Date:         Tue, 15 Dec 1992 20:05:52 -0600
From:         CDOMS@UMKCVAX1.BITNET
Subject:      Re: Flame-grilled turkey

John-

I don't know why, but your comments on De Niro's scene, reminded me
of my favorite De Niro scene(s).  That would have to be him as the
'renegade repairman' from _Brazil_.  I can visualize him now, zipping
down those lines between buildings.  :) :)

Carol Doms
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Date:         Mon, 14 Dec 1992 12:18:35 -0500
From:         Ens Alexander W Ellermann <ellerman@NORFOLK.NADN.NAVY.MIL>
Subject:      Cook, Thief, Various Acquaintances & Chaplin

Jeff,

1.  Boy, you must be cramped after all the typing you've done today!  You've
put out a mixture of volume & thought that would take many students weeks to
produce.   That was not meant sarcastically, by the way.

2.  I see your point about CTWL's vague morality.  I wonder if morality isn't
built into every drama on some level because someone must be right & someone
wrong.  We want to see how the friction between the right & wrong parties works
out.  Of course, as we've seen on this list, there can be as many
interpretations of the "right" as there are viewers, & it could be that
Greenaway is trying to address this fact in his work.  As with you, I don't
know enough about the director, haven't seen enough of his work, to say.  In
the case of this picture, however, it does seem that he tends to with a stan-
dard semitragic trajectory.  The pattern makes me think that, though he does
not conform with a moralistic formula per se, CTWL does use elements of the
morality play.  There.  Now it's all perfectly clear.  :)
     I see what you mean by the asceticism of the film's construction, though
leaving in only the most important elements can detract from the its impact.
On the other hand, perhaps the inclusion of vaguaries helps to heighten the
film's unreal impression, adding to the effect I discussed in my first posting
on this subject.
     I wholeheartedly agree with anything negative anyone says about TV.

3.  As for Chaplin, I've always liked the tramp character.  Perhaps I've been
conditioned to do so; I don't know.  Whatever the reason, I find scenes like
the department store rolling skating scene in City Lights or the (though its
not the tramp) dance of the globe in The Great Dictator to be a riot.  I dis-
covered the man last summer, when some friends forced me to sit and watch
The Gold Rush & The Great Dictator in a double feature.  I consented on the
grounds that anyone who is interested in film should see some Chaplin, just
as anyone interested in literature should read some Shakespeare (as long as
it isn't All's Well that Ends Well, but that's a discussion for another day).
Anyway, I loved it.  I can't compare him to Keaton, but I've picked up The
General to watch in my weekend film fest, so perhaps that movie will give me
some perspective.  Interestingly enough, I don't like Laurel & Hardy.  I just
don't remember ever laughing in one of their pictures.

4.  Well, enough for now.  Have a good weekend, everyone.

                                                        Alex
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Date:         Tue, 15 Dec 1992 19:57:19 -0600
From:         CDOMS@UMKCVAX1.BITNET
Subject:      Re: turkeys

>I dont think films like Alliens 3 qualify as they are technically well
>done.

I don't think I can agree with the statement that technical achievement
does not equal turkey.  I think we have all seen 'hyped' up movies that
was all glitter and no substance.  It is one of the things that pisses
me off about Hollyweird' production of some Science Fiction movies.
They think that SF = special effects.  Sorry, I like good story line
and good acting to with the special effects.

I will acknowledge that 'technically' Alien 3 looks good.  But I
will not acknowledge that it is a good movie all around (IMHO).

Carol Doms
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Date:         Tue, 15 Dec 1992 15:39:00 CST
From:         Rolando Recometa <$W$LB4P@LUCCPUA.BITNET>
Subject:      Re: Jeff and Alex and tears

Jeff,
    Angel At My Table had less to do with mental illness and more
about a writer's(New Zealand's Janet Frame) road to self-discovery.
The acting and photography were exquisite. And Jane Campion, as she's
shown in Sweetie, has a genuine love for her actors and a great sense of
time and place. As for star mimicry, I felt that way about Dustin
Hoffman's performance in Rain Man. I didn't feel the same way for Robert
De Niro's heartrending portrayal in Awakenings. I felt the character's
anger, frustration, and struggle in the face of adversity to maintain
some kind of dignity. Daniel Day Lewis also did a good job in My Left
Foot although I thought the kid who played the younger version was
unjustly overlooked. I thought the worst performance by a star in recent
years was by Harrison Ford in Regarding Henry, a laughable yuppie-gets-a
-conscience-if-you-blow-his-brains addition to the tearjerker genre.
                                                     Rolando
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Date:         Fri, 11 Dec 1992 22:12:45 -0500
From:         S1MBM@ISUVAX.BITNET
Subject:      Re: Alien3 and spoilage

I've come to believe that spoiler warnings are a big waste of everyone's
time.  If you see a film title in the subject heading whose ending you
don't want tdarn message unread.

ever curmudgeonly,
michael mcdonald
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Date:         Tue, 15 Dec 1992 15:29:48 -0500
From:         Ens Alexander W Ellermann <ellerman@NORFOLK.NADN.NAVY.MIL>
Subject:      The Light & Silent Type

I didn't mean to imply that Laurel & Hardy are on the same (low) level as
the Three Stooges.  I just always felt kinda sorry for poor Stan.  Now that
I'm a big boy, I'll catch the titles you've recommended & reevaluate my
position.  As for Keaton, I'm willing to give him another chance.  After all,
I did see The General very late in the evening and may have been too sleepy to
laugh much.  I'll put SONS OF THE DESERT, WAY OUT WEST, OUR HOSPITALITY, &
STEAMBOAT BILL JR on my "to see" list, after RASHOMON, THE AFRICAN QUEEN,
ALADDIN, & A RIVER RUNS THROUGH IT.

As far as I can recall, by the way, only one movie has made me cry, & that
movie was BABETTE'S FEAST.  Funny thing is, it wasn't even sad; just beauti-
ful.  LOVE STORY, on the other hand, is definitely on my all-time turkey
list. That obnoxious theme, droning over & over, & the cheesiest keynote line
in film history:  "Love means never having to say you're sorry."  I felt like
throwing something.  MHO, of course.  My wife loves it.

                                                Cordially,
                                                        Alex

PS Liam, you wouldn't happen to live anywhere near Holy Loch, would you?  If
so, send me your number & I'll call you next time I'm up that way.
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