From: smayo@wang.com (Scott Mayo)
Newsgroups: soc.religion.christian
Subject: Re: Prove it to me! New question!
Date: 18 Aug 92 06:22:11 GMT
Organization: Wang Labs, Lowell MA, USA

studman@casbah.acns.nwu.edu (Daniel Tseng) writes:

>	Hello everybody.  Some of you may recognize me and my past posts about
>prooving the whole religious thing as real.  Many of you have basically said
>that it comes down to faith, and I agree wholeheartedly.  Now, let's say that
>okay, I agree that Jesus died for all of our sins including mine, I believe
>that what you're telling me is the truth.  Now what?  Now that I've "accepted"
>Jesus as my Savior, what is that supposed to do to me?  I haven't noticed a
>change in myself, nor what I believe, nor what I wish to believe or do.  Is
>there some revelation that I'm supposed to see now, that makes me want to go
>out and get baptized.  If there is, I've completely missed the boat.

If you have really done this, congratulations! You have done something few
people do, and no one does lightly. (I hope. For their sakes.) You have
become a Christian.

What is it supposed to do for you? Ideally, you will begin to see things
in your life that make it obvious. Immerse yourself in prayer and scripture
reading. Try to discover who Jesus was and what he means to you. Examine
yourself closely for places where you have fallen short of what God wants,
and ask forgiveness and help in doing better. That's as much the work calls
you into after one day of being a Christian as it is after fifty years. I
suggest you find yourself a good church.

>	I understand about God's love and everything, and many of you all want
>to be a part of that as much as possible, why?  I mean, it might be great for
>all of you, but I'm doing just fine right now, knowing God loves me, and not
>following the Bible word for word.

No one does. Even the folk who try to do this don't succeed. The great thing
is to try.

>I think I'm supposed to change the way I
>act now, but I don't feel like it.  I basically do everything the Bible has
>said anyways, but don't WANT to follow it by the letter.  

Not everyone here takes the Bible as absolute master of their life. Indeed, I'd
say that that attitude can be taken too far - Jesus is Lord, not a book. But
let's not toss the book aside. Read it instead. You don't want to do what it
says? Not a surprise, really; I don't always either. Living up to what Jesus
asks can be unpleasantly hard. Can you make yourself try to be as good as
He was? Never mind that you won't succeed; can you push yourself to try? If
you cannot, perhaps you aren't taking it all seriously. Or maybe you need
to pray very, very hard that you would understand what "Jesus is Lord of
my life" really means. Salvation *is* free. Jesus forgives those who come
to him. But coming to him is not exactly a trivial execrise, for us fallen
humans. And the Bible is a blueprint of how the Christian life is done,
as well as an overview of the nature of God and a nice list of commandments.

>	I don't even begin to dare calling myself as Christian, just because I
>believe that the son of God, Jesus, died thousands of years ago to save all of
>our sin.  Do you all act in the name of the Bible because you feel completely
>in debt of Jesus?  Don't you feel in debt to all your parents for simply
>giving you life?  If you do feel in debt to your parents, do you follow
>everything they say word for word no matter how much you disagree?  

If you can't call yourself a Christian, you probably are not one. You are
right that a merely intellectual belief doesn't go far enough; one must *act*
on the belief. BTW, I don't do *anything* in "the name of the Bible." I do
embarassingly little in the name of Jesus.

If you feel no wish to change, I will have to say that you are either kidding
yourself about having become a Christian, or are tossing out hypothetical
questions. Sometimes the change does not come overnight, but ask anyone
who has become a Christian and stuck with it if it has made no change at
all in their life. I *know* it has changed mine.

>	It appears to me that Christianity gives everyone a sense of security,
>trust, and love by an all-forgiving being.  Great, I'm completely in favor of
>that, actually it's a pretty cool feeling, BUT why force yourself into
>following the Bible word for word, when some of it may not apply to society
>thousands of years after it was written.  I already know it's the truth and
>everything is the way things SHOULD be, but as many people can point out,
>there are contradictions in ideas and wording found in the Bible.  I know
>that's not a really big deal, because some translater could have screwed up,
>but still, some of that stuff is sort of "old-fashioned".  I know that God has
>a reason for asking us to follow it like robots, and it's for our own good,
>but I don't feel I'm doing anything wrong to myself or any of my neighbors by
>not being able to sacrifice my child for God, like Abraham was going to do. 
>Even if God asked me, I don't think I could do it, partly because I don't
>think it's necessarily the biggest sin in not obeying God. Denying God is the
>biggest sin, obeying the ten commandments is next important.  If he's
>all-forgiving and loving, then he'll certainly understand if I prefer not to
>kill my child in His name.

OK. At this point I begin to suspect that you are attempting a few slaps
at Christianity. Or you have some *severe* misunderstandings. Or both. No one
asked you to kill anyone in Jesus's name. If you had read enough of the
New Testament to have any idea who Jesus is, you would know this. Give
that book a go.

>	I think I'm missing something in all this Christian and religious
>stuff.  It seems so simple to me, maybe too simple...accept that Jesus has
>forgiven me for all of my sins, and thank and praise God for all of that, but
>that seems about it.

Well, for maybe the first five minutes of Christian life, that's about it.
The New Testament talks about 'milk' and 'meat' when it comes to understanding
Christianity. You haven't even gotten to the hind-milk yet. Following Jesus
requires thought, faith, practice, prayer, questions, and actions. It's
sort of life-involving. If you get to the point of saying "Thank you Jesus,
for dying for me and forgiving my sins," and STOP there - not, for example,
recognising what those sins were or trying to stop them - you don't have
much of a relationship with your Lord.

>  Life is pretty cool with him, and it ain't bad without him either,...

Hey, life in the world is a blast. Guaranteed good time. Who needs Jesus
to have a good time? Who needs to think about being good, or dealing with
guilt, or worshipping the creator? If you want all that, with a sprinkling
of good feelings from being in touch with some "divine" who will sponge
away your fears and give you backrubs - may I suggest that Christianity
is not the way to go? Some other religions may be more suited: just
grep your usenet newsgroup list for New Age, and follow the references.

Christianity is about "getting right with God." That can be a wonderful
feeling in and of itself, but if you're looking for a cool life, you
will get nowhere. Even the sillier religions available today can't help
you for long.

The moderator did a wonderful job of answering. I won't reproduce his
answer, but read it if you haven't yet.
--
"On guard, you musty sofa!"        James Thurber _The 13 Clocks_
smayo@wang.com