HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: anderson@macc.wisc.edu (Jess Anderson)
Subject: Certain Cross-Postings
Organization: Madison Academic Computing Center, UW-Madison
Date: Sat, 19 Dec 92 23:55:35 GMT


There is a current thread about the famous 10% figure.  It's
an interesting topic.  But most of it is cross-posted to
talk.politics.misc and alt.sex as well as soc.motss.  I ask
people from soc.motss to drop the other two groups from the
Newsgroups: line when doing followups.

One of the major defects of cross-postings of this sort is
that it brings on massive intrusions from noisy and/or
somewhat phobic newgroups.

-- 
[Jess Anderson <> Madison Academic Computing Center <> University of Wisconsin]
[Internet: anderson@macc.wisc.edu <-best, UUCP:{}!uwvax!macc.wisc.edu!anderson]
[Room 3130 <> 1210 West Dayton Street / Madison WI 53706 <> Phone 608/262-5888]
[---------> Discrimination, Bigotry, and Hate are not Family Values <---------]
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: jlajka@ux4.cso.uiuc.edu (Jason Michael Lajka)
Subject: Re: weird trees
Organization: University of Illinois at Urbana
Date: Wed, 16 Dec 1992 18:29:01 GMT
Keywords: aluminum, tacky, unfathomable

Aluminum Christmas trees were before my time (born in '74), but I did find
your description truly hideous, yet very entertaining!

-----------
Jason Lajka
jlajka@ux4.cso.uiuc.edu
The University of Illinois
From: aberson@enh.nist.gov
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Miami Herald 12/16
Date: 17 Dec 92 22:45:56 GMT
Organization: NIST

In addition to the previous article, there is some other motss-interest
stuff yesterday nobody commented on:

"Republican factions take aim at party's anti-abortion stance"

     "Liberal and moderate Republicans drew battle lines for factional
war Tuesday as they launched a new coalition that aims to pry the
anti-abortion plank from the GOP platform."
..
     "Though the abortion issue is a primary focus, the group's
concerns are broader.  Members said the GOP should not advocate
school prayer and the teaching of creationism, nor should it condemn
homosexuality."

....


Well, it's a start anyway.  The article painted the Christian Coalition people
asrunning scared at the prospect of a fight, and threatening to leave the
party.


In addition, to that article, the front page had a picture accompanying
the articles about the reopening of the MetroZoo, Seaquarium, and
Everglades National Park for the first time since Andrew.  In the picture
were two men walking through the remnants of a trail in the Everglades
and they certainly set of my gaydar.  It's nothing compared to the
full-color picture of the Queer Nation kiss-in  a couple of years back,
but it is nice to see.


Fially, yesterday, the Broward County legilslative delegation, the second
largest in the state, voted unanimously to pursue gay rights legislation
on state and county-wide levels.

Sim Aberson   Ft. Lauderdale, FL   aberson%3328.span@sdsc.edu
"Home is where your roof landed" - t-shirt seen in Miami
Xref: sparky soc.motss:52518 alt.politics.homosexuality:8012
From: may@hpcesma.ce.hp.com (Elaine May)
Newsgroups: soc.motss,alt.politics.homosexuality,
Subject: Re: "Playing the Race Card"
Date: 16 Dec 1992 00:59:50 GMT
Organization: HP Corporate Engineering - Palo Alto, CA
Reply-To: may@hpcesma.ce.hp.com
NNTP-Posting-Host: hpcesmi.ce.hp.com
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1.4 PL6]

 (SECBH@CUNYVM.BITNET) wrote:
: "The minority wedge tactic was also employed in a local anti-gay campaign
: in Louisville, KY.  In his successful efforts to get the Louisville
: aldermen to overturn their own anti-discrimination ordinance, Dr.
: Frank Simon said, "the black churches were extremely important to our
: winning effort.  Blacks were offended by the idea of extending civil
: rights protection to a form of sexual behavior.

CFV played this angle up in Colorado as well.  Although I left the state
in August, I was back for 1 week in late October and "had the opportunity"
to see a pro-Amendment-2 television ad.  It showed a black woman saying
something along the lines of "I'm offended at being grouped in with a bunch
of homosexuals."

In addition, Leon Kelly, a black minister(?) active in anti-gang work in
Denver sat on CFV's board of directors.  A black minister (it may have
been Leon Kelly, I don't remember) invited Bill McCartney (the "people who 
don't reproduce shouldn't have the same rights as the rest of us" coach
of the C.U. football team) to speak at a conference on teenage suicide.
I found this particularly ironic since when this minister's son committed 
suicide a couple of years ago, I started thinking that those "he had 
everything going for him" suicides (which this one was) were likely kids 
who were struggling with same-sex attractions.  [The suicide was a tragedy,
and I don't know whether or not the young man was gay.  I do think inviting
Bill "illogical" McCartney was a mistake].

--
Elaine May                               Hewlett-Packard Corporate Engineering
may@hpcesma.ce.hp.com		         Palo Alto, California
Xref: sparky soc.motss:52608 alt.politics.homosexuality:8025
From: smithw@col.hp.com (Walter Smith)
Newsgroups: soc.motss,alt.politics.homosexuality
Subject: Re: Call/Fax/Write Fernandez
Date: 16 Dec 1992 14:09:37 GMT
Organization: Colorado Springs IT Center
NNTP-Posting-Host: fajita19.cs.itc.hp.com

rhayden@oracle.com (Ronald Hayden) writes:
> So it's pretty frustrating that practically every conversation we get
> into with a straight person (who doesn't have a lot of experience with
> sexuality issues), we have to justify our existance again, and accept
> being "tolerated", if we're lucky.  

How do you mean "justify our existance"?  

> To be told (as I was told by my
> sister-in-law last week), "Oh, I treat my gay friends the same as
> everyone else, even though I think what they're doing is wrong."

Do you treat your fundie friends the same as everyone else,
even though you think what they're doing is wrong?  Or do you 
have any fundie friends? (no flame intended, just wanting you to
look at it from the other side)  

> Really, it's nice that we're tolerated.  It's preferable to being
> completely rejected.  Just don't expect us to invite you to our
> housewarming.

...and if your sister-in-law invited you to hers? 

Walter
From: rjwill6@PacBell.COM (Rod Williams)
Subject: Re: Lesbian opera queens
Organization: Pacific * Bell, San Ramon, California
Date: Mon, 14 Dec 1992 20:54:52 GMT

> adolphso@mizar.usc.edu (adolphson) writes:
>
>Yes, that's been my experience, too.  I've noticed that there
>are a few singers with devoted lesbian followings (Joan Sutherland,
>but also, in the early part of the century, Geraldine Farrar, whose
>female fans were called "Gerryflappers"), but the interest seems
>to be much more focussed on an individual singer, and the range of 
>knowledge and appreciation are less encyclopedic than among opera
>queens.

I think that's a male thing -- like the male sports fans
who amass gigabytes of statistical info on every player
who ever donned a uniform, and like to regurgitate said
info at every opportunity.  Men also seem to obsess more
easily about stuff like child-molesting, gun-owning and
libertarianism...
-- 
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
rod williams -=- pacific bell -=- san ramon, ca -=- rjwill6@pacbell.com
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: cornell@inoc.dl.nec.com (C.J.K.)
Subject: Re: My English Paper (was Re: Accessory question)
Reply-To: cornell@syl.dl.nec.com
Organization: Not very organized
Date: Fri, 11 Dec 1992 19:42:01 GMT

Please at least keep us informed of the outcome in regards to your
teacher's comments and grading...

---cjk
From: jefu@nmt.edu (Jeff Putnam)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: cobalt musings 2
Date: 19 Dec 92 13:55:36 GMT
Article-I.D.: nmt.1992Dec19.135536.15348
Distribution: soc
Organization: The Museum of Differential Geometry

In article <1992Dec15.4342.67725@dosgate> "paul bobbitt" <paul.bobbitt@canrem.com> writes:
>It would appear that night people are a good deal more irritable in 
>the morning than morning people are at night.  All I do is get sleepy 
>and unresponsive when kept up past my bedtime.  I don't issue death 
>threats... although that might just be effective.  <grin>

I'm a morning person and I get rather cranky as the day goes on rather
than sleepy and unresponsive.  I try usually to just be unresponsive
when people irritate me later in the day, but since they (damn
evening people!) tend to be rather insistant about being awake and
chipper, it usually results in severe grumpiness (someone here
likes to call me "grumplicious" - which really makes me grumpy).

In relationships, I believe that more than mixed religion, mixed race
or mixed politics (all of which _can_ be bad for relationships) that
mixed morning people and evening people is the absolute worst
combination and probably pretty much dooms a relationship from the
start.  The two way irritation of "Its morning and I'm chipper
and horny" vs "Its evening and I'm chipper and horny" is a deadly
combination.




-- 
jefu <=> Jeff Putnam - New Mexico Tech <=> jefu@nmt.edu 
"Daffodils go Ping! and Oink! // They Really are alarming 
I'm scared of big geraniums // And I'm sure that Lilac's harming"
(Dr. Bertram X. Fegg)
From: dbidwa@sei.cmu.edu (Daniel Bidwa)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: Devil CD's
Date: 14 Dec 92 18:34:53 GMT
Article-I.D.: sei.1992Dec14.133453.16832
Organization: The Software Engineering Institute


Furr@cup.portal.com (George Dalton Madison) writes:
|> I am *NOT* into Megadeth. While heavy metal may sound all alike to
|> those not fond of any part of it, believe me -- there are major
|> differences. One of the things I like about Metallica is James
|> Hetfield's interesting, intelligent and INTELLIGIBLE lyrics; they
|> don't have a great deal of competition in this field, IMHO.

Blech. Too slow, too slow...

(Not that Megadeth is better, although watching Dave Mustaine's ego as it
attempts to swallow him whole can be kind of fun.)

dan
From: adolphso@mizar.usc.edu (adolphson)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Lesbian opera queens
Date: 12 Dec 92 22:31:44 GMT
Organization: University of Southern California, Los Angeles, CA
NNTP-Posting-Host: mizar.usc.edu

In article <1992Dec12.042141.5107@tc.cornell.edu> 
shore@dinah.tc.cornell.edu (Melinda Shore) writes:
> In article <1gbn21INN1ug@mizar.usc.edu>
> adolphso@mizar.usc.edu (adolphson) writes:
> >I've known lesbians who were *crazy* for Joan Sutherland, for 
> >instance, but I've never met a lesbian version of an opera
> >queen.  Do they exist?  
>
> Not in my experience.  I know many lesbians who attend the
> opera regularly, but none who do the whole opera queen
> thing.

Yes, that's been my experience, too.  I've noticed that there
are a few singers with devoted lesbian followings (Joan Sutherland,
but also, in the early part of the century, Geraldine Farrar, whose
female fans were called "Gerryflappers"), but the interest seems
to be much more focussed on an individual singer, and the range of 
knowledge and appreciation are less encyclopedic than among opera
queens.

>  The closest I've known was an ex of mine whose
> field was 17th century French opera.  She hated it, though,

And who can blame her?

> so we spent one rainy Sunday morning browsing the Chicago
> yellow pages in search of a new career for her.  She ended
> up going back to school to study book restoration, and last
> I heard was in Atlanta working for the Georgia State
> Archives.

Why do archives and libraries always seem to attract so many
gay men and lesbians?  Curious.

> Anyway, to the extent that there might be a lesbian
> aesthetic (and that's certainly arguable), it's my
> impression that opera clashes with it.

Are there any lesbian cults on a par with the whole opera-, 
movie-, Broadway-queen cults among (many) gay men?  I haven't
ever noticed such a thing, but then I haven't any idea what
might be considered as a lesbian aesthetic.

Arne
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: shore@dinah.tc.cornell.edu (Melinda Shore)
Subject: Re: Castro Street (Re: Two threads:  women posting and "cures" and its spinoffs)
Organization: Cornell Theory Center
Date: Sat, 12 Dec 1992 04:21:41 GMT

In article <1gbn21INN1ug@mizar.usc.edu> adolphso@mizar.usc.edu (adolphson) writes:
> I've
>known lesbians who were *crazy* for Joan Sutherland, for 
>instance, but I've never met a lesbian version of an opera
>queen.  Do they exist?  

Not in my experience.  I know many lesbians who attend the
opera regularly, but none who do the whole opera queen
thing.  The closest I've known was an ex of mine whose
field was 17th century French opera.  She hated it, though,
so we spent one rainy Sunday morning browsing the Chicago
yellow pages in search of a new career for her.  She ended
up going back to school to study book restoration, and last
I heard was in Atlanta working for the Georgia State
Archives.

Anyway, to the extent that there might be a lesbian
aesthetic (and that's certainly arguable), it's my
impression that opera clashes with it.
--
       Melinda Shore - Cornell Theory Center - shore@tc.cornell.edu
From: dh0a@ns1.cc.lehigh.edu (DONALD L. HARDY)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: weird trees
Date: 17 Dec 92 21:30:49 GMT
Organization: Lehigh University

>Speaking of tacky Christmas decorations, there is one...
>Yes: the aluminum Christmas tree.    >Complete with color wheel.

Some very good friends of my family had one of those babies in the early
sixties.  I thought it was the coolest thing.  I was four at the time.  I
really wish I could find it now.  Sigh.

Donald
-- 

******************************************************************************

Donald L. Hardy                                    Office of Physical Planning
Project Planner                                    Lehigh University
dh0a@lehigh.edu                                    (215) 758 5110
From: msp@ohstpy.mps.ohio-state.edu (Michael S. Pettersen)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Progress for Transsexuals in France (news item)
Date: 13 Dec 92 16:11:34 EST
Organization: The Ohio State University, Department of Physics

From le Monde, 13-14 December:  

The superior court [cour de cassation], in full assembly on Friday December
11, recognized the right of transsexuals to change their civil status.  This
judgement marks a reversal for the high court [juridication supreme], which
has refused since 1975 to grant this possibility to 13 people who wanted to
change their sex.

Two transsexuals, Rene, 35, and Marc, 24, appealed to the superior court
against two judgements of the court of appeals [cour d'appel] of Aix-en-
Provence, which denied them the right to have the entries concerning their
sex changed on their birth certificates, on the grounds that people's
status is not at their own disposition (no one can modify the status which is
theirs by virtue of law or nature).  The superior court found in their favor
by specifying:  "When, following surgical treatment undergone for therapeutic
purposes, a person displaying the syndrome of transsexualism no longer
possesses all of the characteristics of his or her original sex, and has taken 
on a physical appearance approaching that of the other sex, the principle of
due respect of privacy justifies the civil status indicating the sex
which the person appears to be."  This decision follows a judgement by the
European court of human rights on March 25, which ordered France to pay
an indemnity of 100,000 F [about $20,000] to Mr. Norbert B..., to whom
it had denied a change of civil status since 1979.

After years of legal battle, France thus aligns itself with other
European countries such as Sweden, Germany, Italy, the Netherlands,
Denmark, Turkey [!], Finland and Spain.  But the importance of the
judgement of the superior court is above all in the implied consequences.
In theory, nothing further prevents the marriage of transsexuals or
the possibility of their undertaking adoption procedures.

[end of article]

I hope I've given reasonable translations of the French legal terms.

I was surprised to find this matter still under question.
Anybody know what US law says about it?
--
Mike Pettersen, Ecole Normale Superieure
msp@physique.ens.fr
Perfect love casteth out fear.

Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: ambidge@ecf.toronto.edu (Chris Ambidge)
Subject: Re: That dead horse
Organization: University of Toronto, Engineering Computing Facility
Date: Fri, 11 Dec 1992 20:44:37 GMT

In article <1gaqnkINNprj@mizar.usc.edu> adolphso@mizar.usc.edu (adolphson) writes:
>In article <mattm-111292094529@mcmelmon.apple.com> 


>that has so permanently damaged public discourse and
>intellectual life in 20th century America as has the
>consistent demonization of leftists, from the J. Edgar
>Hoover-led hysteria in the 1910s to.....

JEdgar Hoover was alive and leading public hysteria in the
1910's?

reminds me of a tabloid headline, "Ancient statue
proves Elvis was alive in Ancient Greece"



-- 
Chris Ambidge / ambidge@ecf.toronto.edu / ambidge@ecf.utoronto.ca  
   chemical engineering / university of toronto
   200 college st / toronto ON / M5S 1A4 // 416 978 3106
From: StarOwl@uiuc.edu (StarOwl)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: soc.motss.*
Date: 17 Dec 92 19:07:19 GMT
Reply-To: StarOwl@uiuc.edu
Organization: Actuarial Science Program at UIUC
Originator: mda46419@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu

Well, even though I only very recently started making any pretense of
following this group, I thought I'd contribute my two zlotys' worth....

jns@elea.umd.edu (J. N. Shaumeyer) writes:

>***Serious Proposal #2***

>So, although I don't really like the idea of topical
>reorganization, and urge that we move in the direction
>that I outlined in Serious Proposal #1, I think that a
>good case can be made for

>soc.motss 
>soc.motss.advocacy  [or  soc.motss.activism]
>soc.motss.info [moderated]

Sounds good to me, but I might point out that if/when the proposal
gets to news.groups, the namespace purists are going to have big
problems with soc.motss existing in this scheme.

Although I don't really care, there are folks out there who would
say that it is not a Good Thing for there to be a group foo.bar, 
when groups foo.bar.1, foo.bar.2, etc. exist.  The *sole*
exception for this is *.d groups and their parent groups.
(I.e., the namespace purists tend to accept the coexistence of
 foo.bar and foo.bar.d)

*.misc has become the default name for the "general stuff" group in
the mini heirarchies.  I agree that it isn't the nicest name in the
world, but....   My preference would be for something like
soc.motss.general.

Also, a point could be made for having a soc.motss.info be moderated,
and instructing the moderator[s] to direct the followups to 
soc.motss{.misc|.general|.whatever}.
-- 
Michael D. Adams       (aka StarOwl)	| Of all sexual aberrations, chastity
StarOwl@uiuc.edu       (NeXT mail OK)	| is the strangest. -- Anatole France
anon.46@pax.tpa.com.au (anonymously)	|------------------------------------
an692@anon.penet.fi    (anonymously)	| NBCS: B1f+t-w+g+k++s+me+h-qv	     
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: mara@panix.com (Mara Chibnik)
Subject: Re: A reply to Mr. Pierce (was Re: PHOBE ALERT: That XX Louis Sheldon...)
Date: Wed, 16 Dec 1992 00:29:44 GMT
Organization: (getting there)



Oh dear, oh dear, oh dear, now Steve is really going to think I hate
him and that I think he's one of those ugly misogynistic types and
all of that and I *don't*.  Honest.  But still...

Having made an issue out of use of the word "bitch" that he
characterized (appropriately, I thought) as
 >meaningless except as a vehicle for misogyny
Steve Dyer goes on to say:
 >It's not that *I'm* offended, but that there are people who will be.

Well, I don't offend all that easily.  But when someone uses 
"limp wristed" in my presence as a synonym for weak, I _am_
offended.  When someone is described in my presence as "a
hairdresser type" in a tone of voice that makes it clear that
this is not a compliment, I _am_ offended.  

We could, I think, get into a serious discussion of whether 
these parallels are "off" by enough for me to let Steve off 
the hook.  I have some question about that.  But I also have
a sense-- and here's where we hook into all that stuff about
women here in soc.motss-- that men here don't really have a 
sense of what it is that hits the women's nerves.

In particular, I don't want to lean on Steve because I 
like what he was doing, and I think it was rather unfortunate
that he was called upon do it in the first place.  And that,
more or less, is what he was saying.


-- 

  Mara Chibnik
  mara@panix.com                Life is too important to be taken seriously.

Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: lovegod@wam.umd.edu (Donald Andrew Agarrat)
Subject: Re: My *sigh* ad in the Washington Blade
Organization: Workstations at Maryland, University of Maryland, College Park
Date: Sat, 19 Dec 1992 02:03:17 GMT

You won't believe the bullshit I had to go through to get that  
ad in the Washington Blade, but I did and I won AD OF THE WEEK!

*cheesy smile*

I know it's not a Pulitzer, but damn!

Donald - Who actually MAY go to the D.C. Eagle this winter ...
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: mls@cbnewsm.cb.att.com (mike.siemon)
Subject: Re: Is it actually 10%??
Organization: AT&T
Date: Sat, 19 Dec 1992 04:22:38 GMT
Summary: down with solstices

In article <BzH9Fp.72u@hpuerca.atl.hp.com> mhr@hpuerca.atl.hp.com (Mike Reaser) writes:

>Don't forget, "Happy Solstice!".

I *loathe* solstices.  The impending one marks my having to get UP in 
the dark, and drive HOME in the dark.  The one in the other half of
the year has enough light, but in far too much of the world (i.e.,
where I have found myself living :-)) signifies oppressive heat and
humidity.

I'm an equinox type, myself.
-- 
Michael L. Siemon		   "Oh, stand, stand at the window,
					As the tears scald and start;
mls@panix.com			   You shall love your crooked neighbor
(please note address)			With your crooked heart."
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: dgilly@us.oracle.com (Daniel Gilly)
Subject: Re: pounding the "10%" figure into the ground: Nature, 12/3/92
Followup-To: soc.motss
Organization: Oracle Corporation, Redwood Shores CA 94065
Date: Wed, 16 Dec 1992 19:11:46 GMT
X-Disclaimer: This message was written by an unauthenticated user
              at Oracle Corporation.  The opinions expressed are those
              of the user and not necessarily those of Oracle.

In article <13627@optilink.COM> cramer@optilink.COM (Clayton Cramer) writes:
>
>See "AIDS and sexual behavior in France" in the December 3, 1992
>_Nature_.  The survey questioned 20,055 people aged 18-69.  The
>survey asked about "at least one occurrence of intercourse with
>a person of the same sex during their lifetime", in the past 5 
>years, and in the past year.  The percentages reported were:
>
>           men       women
>lifetime   4.1%      2.6%
>past 5 yrs 1.4%      0.4%
>past year  1.1%      0.3%
>
>This is higher than the 3.3% number for men cited by Masters, Johnson,
>& Kolodny, but roughly in line with the 2.4% homosexual/bisexual
>identification from exit polling in this year's election.

I see ... so if a survey were to ask about intercourse between 
opposite-sex couples, and 70% of the respondents said they'd
had at least one occurrence within the past year, we could conclude
that 30% of the population is homosexual (at least during the past year)?

Amazing!
-- 
------------------------------------------------------------------
Daniel Gilly                                 Oracle Corporation
dgilly@us.oracle.com                         Redwood Shores, CA
Newsgroups: soc.motss