HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.deaf-l
Date:         Sun, 27 Sep 1992 23:27:00 GMT
Reply-To:     ishbeld@cix.compulink.co.uk
From:         Ishbel Donkin <ishbeld@CIX.COMPULINK.CO.UK>
Subject:      Re: Volunteering to firefighting etc.

Discussion of deaf fire-fighters brings to my mind a wartime memory
(WWII) of a totally deaf man I knew who was a fire-fighter (voluntary)
with the UK's Auxiliary Fire Service, which was inaugurated around 1940 to
fight incendiary bombs in Southampton, UK.  I believe he saw some
action in the bombing raids made on Southampton which left the town
centre in ruins.  He was killed, not in action, but in a tragic
motor-cycling accident not long afterwards.  He was an accounts-typist
with a firm of accountants, and used shorthand. He also travelled extensively
in Europe in the 1930s with his motor-cycle, and could speak Swedish
although I was told he was voiceless, and also was a fluent signer.

I remember too he was arrested by a country policeman, together with
his deaf friend, in a lonely village during WWII because he was talking
to a deaf friend in sign, on suspicion of being a German spy...many
hours elapsed before the deaf men were freed upon a phone call from a
parent.  They could not convince the policeman, who had clearly never
met up with any deaf people before...  Paranoia reigned supreme in
those days!

Ishbel.
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Date:         Sat, 26 Sep 1992 10:24:25 +0200
From:         Omer Zak <XLACHA1@WEIZMANN.WEIZMANN.AC.IL>
Subject:      Re: Re:credit where credit is due
              25 Sep 1992 15:56:51 BST from <KEOWN@WINVMC.VNET.IBM.COM>

Bosco Keown told us how he got along in his academic studies.  I wonder
whether he encountered any instance of professors or other instructors
who didn't accommodate to his needs e.g. by refusing to give him syllabi
or things like that.
It is in such situations where services for the hearing impaired are
important.  I recall one professor in my B.Sc. studies who had the
following situation.
1. In the Technion, students may appeal their grade points in final
   exams.  Appealing mid-term grades is according to professor's option.
2. The particular professor ruled no appeals on mid-term exams.
3. The professor refused to hand out the written exams with his remarks
   (where the student was wrong and why).
4. I got unexpectedly low grade and couldn't figure out where I was wrong.
   So I had to appeal to get the professor's remarks.
   I needed the remarks to understand the professor's point of view toward
   the subject matter (which I didn't get during the lectures because it
   is philosophical, and not reduced to a set of equations).

(For the experts: the course was about electromagnetic fields and the
missing piece was the philosophy behind the quasi-classical approximation.)

I got the Student Union involved in the matter.  I even considered violent
methods of getting the information which I needed in order to be successful
in the final exam - until I was told that it is possible to sue the academic
institution if it doesn't explain you why you flunked in your studies.

Eventually the matter was settled in unofficial way.  I didn't get remarks
but I was handed a paper which explained the point of view which the professor
used in his course.  At the final exam I got satisfactory grade.
                                                              --- Omer
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Newsgroups: bit.listserv.deaf-l
Date:         Wed, 30 Sep 1992 19:38:06 IST
From:         Lew Golan <LEW@TAUNIVM.BITNET>
Subject:      parental motivation

Omer --

> My parents went the oral route on advice from the experts.

     Bottom line, all things considered, are you saying this was -- or was
not -- in your best interest?

> When they saw that oral doesn't work well for me socially, they
> encouraged me to go to Gallaudet (and I choosed the Technion instead).

     Again, bottom line: which was best for you -- to be in a signing
environment without engineering, or in an engineering environment without
sign?
     Either your parents were ignoring what was best for you, or you were
ignoring what was best for you.

> it is very small leap of faith/imagination/logic to assume that
> parents who want their offspring to follow the same religious beliefs
> as them

     Is it egoistical, selfish and wrong to want your offspring to be
Jewish?

> and to hold the same values as them

     Is it egoistical, selfish and wrong to want your offspring to value
education, independence, freedom, friendship, caring, peace, cooperation,
happiness, excellence, language, achievement, etc.?

> would also want their offspring to be as 'hearing' as they are.

     Is it egoistical, selfish and wrong to want your offspring to have the
broader opportunities of the hearing world open to them -- such as an
engineering education at the Technion?

Lew Golan, Tel-Aviv University <lew@vm.tau.ac.il>
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Date:         Wed, 30 Sep 1992 19:12:23 -0500
Comments:     Warning -- RSCS tag indicates an origin of 11CWATT@GALLUA1
From:         "Keith Watt - Gallaudet Dept. of Education"
              <11CWATT@GALLUA.BITNET>
Subject:      Re: Vounteering to firefighting etc.

Hello everyone -

>Depends on the situation...if, for instance, a particular engineering
>work group made heavy use of e-mail, a deaf worker might fit in
>without much trouble.  Larger firms, such as Digital and AT&T, provide
>interpreters for deaf workers at meetings.  (I suspect that before the
>Americans with Disabilities Act went into effect, they were required
>to do this because they are big government contractors, and the
>Vocational Rehab Act therefore requires them to make "reasonable
>accommodations" for disabled workers.)
>
>I believe Keith Watt, formerly of NASA, can give more reliable info.

Well, I can only report my experience, but communication at NASA was rarely
a problem.  Email is VERY important, mainly because you are communicating
not only with your working group, but also with groups at NASA centers
across the country.  Additionally, email provides an automatic written
record of the development process, which is extremely important in this
type of work (I worked in orbital mechanics and mission planning, for those
of you who are new since I had to "disappear" from the list for a while)

As for meetings, at first I only had an interpreter for large, "important"
meetings and I would read my boss' notes over his shoulder for other
meetings.  However, their came a time when my interpreter for a large
meeting happen to be able to show up for a small meeting as well.  My boss
was so impressed with the difference it makes that he started having an
interpreter come to all our meetings.  It worked out quite well. I have
absolutely no complaints with the work environment at NASA - it's a
wonderful place to be, Deaf or hearing.

Keith

===============================================================================
Keith Watt                              |
Gallaudet University                    | "Exit, pursued by a bear."
Department of Education                 |     Stage direction in Shakespeare's
                                        |     _The Winter's Tale_ (1611)
BITNET:                                 |
11CWATT@GALLUA.BITNET                   |
===============================================================================
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.deaf-l
From: famatthews@GALLUA.BITNET (Allen Matthews)
Subject: Re: Volunteering to firefighting etc.
Organization: Gallaudet University, Washington, D.C.
Date: Sat, 26 Sep 1992 15:31:13 GMT


	Last summer, I decided to investigate to see if I could be
a volunteer firefighter..  I was surpised that there are more deaf
or hard of hearing fire fighter or EMT  (Emergency Medical Techican)
out on the fields..

	Audrey Hill is current a EMT with Bladenburg Volunteers Fire
Dept..     She also mentioned that there is a deaf paid EMT who is now
in supervisory position somewhere in PA..

	I just met another volunteer fire fighter who just retired after
26 or 27 year of services...   I also have heard of other guy who was
a volunteer fire fighter 

	Now I see more deaf or HOH firefighters popping up all over
the world.  Now I see Mike from Michigan who is the newest guy on DEAF-L

	I would like to start a support group via e-mail and if anyone
who are interest in being a support group, send me e-mail 
FAMATTHEWS@GALLUA (Bitnet) or FAMATTHEWS@GALLUA.GALLAUDET.EDU.
The purpose of this group is to keep each other in contact and
exchange ideas or give support to those who want to get into fire
fighter or EMT..

					- Allen -

P.S. Roy, It is good to see that you are doing great and glad to meet you
	in person last summer...  
= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
Allen Matthews - Supervisor, Computer Operation
Gallaudet University Computer Services, Washington, D.C. 

  Bitnet: FAMATTHEWS@GALLUA			(202) 651-5276 TDD
INTERNET: Famatthews@gallua.gallaudet.edu	(202) 651-5300 Voice/TDD
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.deaf-l
Subject: Re: John Tracy Clinic
From: zevpeter@chen.bgu.ac.il (Bill Peter)
Date: Mon, 28 Sep 1992 19:58:45 GMT
Organization: Ben Gurion University, Beer Sheva, Israel
Originator: zevpeter@chen.bgu.ac.il


In article <DEAF-L%92092702243211@SIUCVMB.BITNET>, Chris Hafemeister-Salage <CHSHC@CUNYVM.BITNET> writes:
|> Bill:
|>
|> I can see the point u r comming from but I strongly suggest u take the same
|> effort to learn abt ur son's culture -- Deaf. Two books will start u out..
|> "Seeing Voices" by Dr. Oliver Sachs, and "Deaf in America - Voices from a
|> Culture" by Carol Padden and Tom Humphries. I wud also suggest u try contacting
|> Marie Phillip at the Learning Center in Framington Mass.

     Chris, thanks for the info.  But why do you say my son's culture is Deaf?  It's
     like saying his culture is Cute or Brown-Hair.  Yes, my son is profoundly deaf,
     and cute, and has brown hair, but to define him completely by his hearing (or
     lack of same) is as silly as defining him by his brown hair.

     I am willing to learn more about this culture that you define as being common
     to all deaf, however.  How bad does one's audiogram have to be in order to be
     a part of the culture?  What language does this culture use (ASL, BSL, Signed
     Hebrew)?  How about culinary dishes?  (My son would never be a member of a
     culture whose members don't eat lots of Tehina, Hatzilim, and pita :-) :-))

     But seriously, having lived and traveled in a fair number of countries in my life,
     I don't see that, for example, a deaf Israeli shares the same culture as a deaf
     Texan, or a deaf Chinese.  Are you claiming that they do?
--
Bill Peter
Physics Department
Ben-Gurion University, Beersheva, Israel.
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Newsgroups: bit.listserv.deaf-l
Date:         Mon, 28 Sep 1992 08:46:19 EDT
From:         A249000 Mike Wilson <A249@NMUMUS.BITNET>
Subject:      Re: support in school

Hi everyone, I have to agree with Mireille. If DVR(Division of Voc.
Rehab.)wasn't paying for my classes this year, my first, I won't be here
because I didn'tqualify for financial aid. And I'm having a real hard
time adjusting to college so I can use all the help I can get. In this
case tutors. Thats about it for now, see you. Mike
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Date:         Fri, 2 Oct 1992 21:03:18 +0200
From:         Omer Zak <XLACHA1@WEIZMANN.WEIZMANN.AC.IL>
Subject:      Re: parental motivation

Lew Golan asks if it is egoistical and wrong for parents to want their
offspring to be Jewish/well-educated/'hearing' etc.

Let's make the distinction among wishing that your offspring be so-and-so
and FORCING him/her to be so-and-so even if you see it would harm his/her
life.

In retrospect, the best educational method for me might have been something
like this:
1. Any cumpulsory education (in Israel - until 10th grade) - mainstreamed
   but have one or more fellow deaf students in my class (and not in other
   schools as the situation was).
2. Obtain matriculation certificate (needed for admission into university)
   by exams, rather than by attending high school.
3. Have social life among the signing deaf.
Most of what I learnted, I learned by reading things, so the only benefit
from actually going to school was the social one (which turned out to be
dubious).

Matter of fact, my father told me about the possibility of taking exams
but he decided not to pursue this due to the social aspect of going to
school and interacting with fellow students.

Lew, you see that my parents were concerned about my social life.  However
the experts misled them.  Academically I could do well even if my social
life were among the signing deaf.  But not socially.
                                                        --- Omer
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Newsgroups: bit.listserv.deaf-l
Date:         Thu, 1 Oct 1992 08:19:02 IST
From:         Lew Golan <LEW@TAUNIVM.BITNET>
Subject:      John Tracy Clinic

Keith --

     Welcome back, shana tova...and en garde.

     Whether the ASL community is a culture in the broadly accepted sense
of the word is an issue I'll leave aside for another day. For the moment,
I'll use your terminology.

> Certain members of this list will tell you that being a part of Deaf
> Culture will mean limited opportunity in the primarily hearing work
> world.

     If you (as some do) define the Deaf culture as embodying a complete
rejection of the use of speaking and speechreading, then the sentence
quoted above is essentially correct -- although I never put it that way.
     If, on the other hand, your view of the Deaf culture acknowledges that
it's acceptable for a member to use both ASL and oral skills -- Chris, for
example, describes himself as "an oral deaf adult (altho I'm bilingual in
ASL and English and bicultural in both deaf/hearing worlds)" -- then you
are attributing to me a claim that I (or Mimi or David James or Bosco or
anyone else) never made.
     What we *have* said is that a refusal or inability to use speech and
speechreading will mean limited opportunity in the primarily hearing work
world. This is radically different from the words you put into my computer.

> I cannot fully experience the hearing culture. . . .I can, however, fully
> experience the Deaf Culture. This, for me, gives me a fuller sense of
> self.

    The core of the Deaf culture consists of prelingually deaf people. And
an essential part of the Deaf experience is growing up deaf. Since you had
normal hearing and speech until you were 24, you did not go through that
experience.
     I can understand that someone get can satisfaction and enjoyment and a
sense of self from identifying with the Deaf culture without being able to
*fully* experience it.
     It's true that I cannot fully experience the hearing world, either --
but, nevertheless, I get a great deal of satisfaction and enjoyment and
sense of self from being part of it.
     We're both in the same boat. And if the boat leaks, as it does, then
it comes down to (as Mimi says) different strokes for different folks.

Lew Golan, Tel-Aviv University <lew@vm.tau.ac.il>
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Newsgroups: bit.listserv.deaf-l
Date:         Tue, 6 Oct 1992 15:06:27 EDT
From:         "(Mark Hunt)" <markhunt@ZEN.CAC.STRATUS.COM>
Subject:      Biography

After subscribeing to this list, I received mail from Roy Miller asking
I provode some sort of biography.  So, here is a quick response to Roy's
outline.



NAME:                 L. Mark Hunt
AGE:                  33
OCCUPATION:           Senior Communications Software Engineer
                      Stratus Computer
                      Marlboro Mass.

HEARING STATUS:       Hearing.
SUBSCRIPTION REASON:  I am interrested in the deaf culture and problems a deaf
                      person is confronted with.  The high school I attended
                      had a program for deaf students and provided interpreters
                      for any classes that deaf students attended.  There were
                      two students in my home room for my softmore, junior and
                      senior years with whom I became friends.  The more the
                      friendship developed, the more I wanted to be better
                      able to communicate.  In my junior year, the school began
                      offering a course in ASL.  Although I did learn enough
                      to be able to communicate better than before, I never
                      achieved any level of proficency.  After graduation, I
                      lost touch with my school friends and what little I
                      learned, I began to lose.  Now, 15 years later, I find
                      I still want to know sign language and have just
                      enrolled in an ASL class taught at a local school for
                      deaf children.

QUESTIONS/COMMENTS:   As I just discovered and subscribed to this group, I
                      have not thought of any questions yet.  I would love
                      to hear from the other people on the mail list regarding
                      what are the biggest and/or most common problems they
                      encounter routinely.

FAVORITE SAYING:      You gotta make your own fun!

FAVORITE MOVIE LINE:  "No matter where you go, there you are."

       ---------------------------------------------------------------------
     /             E-MAIL:  markhunt@zen.cac.stratus.com                   /
   /                   or:  Mark_Hunt@vos.stratus.com                    /
  ----------------------------------------------------------------------
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Date:         Sat, 26 Sep 1992 14:51:59 EDT
From:         Mireille Caissy <M104540@UQAM.BITNET>
Subject:      Support in school for deaf and HoH

Bosko,

I think like Mimi that if something work for you it is not always the same
for others...In some place, we have always to fight to have good services and
support to go throught University and College. It's not all the fields that
can permit you to go on with only reading materials, and some people like me
want to participate in class and the interactive activities with other
students and the teacher...I don't think I use the tax payers money on
something that I have not the right to have !

I am proudly independant as a person and I don't need a notetaker or interprete
r every minutes of my life, but it's always a dangerous behavior to  refuse
the help you can have. Here, when too much deaf or HoH students decide that
their indenpendance come first, the services and support that we have fighting
for are in jeopardy !
I think we have the rights to have this services and add to our possibilities
of success.I get throught my college years alone without any support services,
I did so-so...But I found it really depressing. So when I had the chance to go
to university, Ihad to fight to have decent services...And now, there is more
deaf students at this level, but without it, I don't think they would have the
guts. And that they are oralist or Sign language users don't matter !
You are like Lew and couple of other on this list an exception...You may be
one of the most brilliant poeple around, and I think that you would have
succeded deaf or not ! But there is people out there who need the support and
the help they can have.
So it's not a matter of oralist doing better on the mainstream than Deaf
signers, it's a matter to have the support you need to succed in what you
really want to do !

Sorry if I am boring...It's just make me angry when people make themseleves
such good exemple of how they can succed without any help...We all need some
help at time in our lives, and we have to accept it and don't let our pride
take all the place !

Ok, I will stop here, this look a little bit like flaming...But I had to
fight too much to go to university and it touch me real hard...

Mireille, Montreal, Quebec (Can.)
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Newsgroups: bit.listserv.deaf-l
Date:         Fri, 25 Sep 1992 23:01:13 -0400
From:         "(Seth Gordon)" <sethg@SILVER.LCS.MIT.EDU>
Subject:      LGB language and deaf-l
              23 Sep 1992 13:47:29 EDT <9209231753.AA09030@silver.lcs.mit.edu>

The discussion of LGB language grew out of a discussion of how, if at
all, LGB people are like deaf/Deaf people; the discussion as a whole
*is* relevant to the list, even if a couple of the followups, taken
out of context, are not.  It seems to pop up again every year or so.

If you don't like seeing *any* mention of LGB issues on the list[*],
even just delete any mail with "LGB" or "lesbian" or whatever in the
subject line.  It's just e-mail.  It doesn't bite.

    [*]Suppose the President of the NAD (Ms. Rosen, if memory serves) is
    caught having a torrid affair with Marlee Matlin?  :-) :-) :-)
    (No, I have no information which suggests that this might happen.
    I'd better head off rumors in advance.)

By the way, I found out about DEAF-L because one DEAF-L subscriber
joined BISEXU-L for a few months and got into a heated debate about
ASL with another BISEXU-L subscriber.  And yes, there already is a
"gaynet" mailing list.
--
seth gordon ... <sethg@silver.lcs.mit.edu>   ... .sig under construction;
mit bs '91  ... learning ctr 4 deaf children ... pardon the inconvenience
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Date:         Mon, 28 Sep 1992 15:57:00 EDT
From:         FREEDOM OF SPEECH IS A CONSTITUTIONAL RIGHT
              <SG1787@ALBNYVMS.BITNET>
Subject:      Re: RE:question on vocabulary

Is that the right or left earlobe?

Sarah@ALBNYVMS.BITNET
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Date:         Mon, 28 Sep 1992 19:03:08 -0600
From:         The Shadow <THESHADO@CORRAL.UWYO.EDU>
Subject: Re: RE:question on vocabulary

>Is that the right or left earlobe?

Right hand on the right earlobe.


Kirk Haines
theshado@outlaw.uwyo.edu
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Newsgroups: bit.listserv.deaf-l
Date:         Mon, 28 Sep 1992 20:05:00 -0400
From:         "(Seth Gordon)" <sethg@SILVER.LCS.MIT.EDU>

's message of Sat, 26 Sep 1992 17:02:00 EDT
 <9209262118.AA09549@silver.lcs.mit.edu>

Sarah, let the Rehab people decide whether or not they have enough
money to give you the services you need.  And if they don't, find
other people in the same boat as you and lobby some sense into the
state legislature.
--
seth gordon ... <sethg@silver.lcs.mit.edu>   ... .sig under construction;
mit bs '91  ... learning ctr 4 deaf children ... pardon the inconvenience
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Newsgroups: bit.listserv.deaf-l
Date:         Thu, 1 Oct 1992 10:51:26 -0600
From:         /PN=BRENDA.L.MONENE/O=DEAFTEK/ADMD=TELEMAIL/C=US/@SPRINT.COM
Subject: Re: phone answering machine

 <"IGJC-5445-2904/36"*/PN=BRENDA.L.MONENE/O=DEAFTEK/ADMD=TELEMAIL/C=US/@sprint.c
 om>

I live in Massachusetts and am aware of the answering service.  However, when
I asked if they would also answer TDD calls with this service, I got answers
from "no" to "we will look into it".  There is technology out there to accept
both TDD and Voice calls on a voice mail system for large companies....Dirad
for one.

My business needs both voice and TDD calls accepted.  Currently I am using a
modified GTE answering machine which accepts both kinds of calls...it is sold
by Heidco.

Brenda
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