HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: nelson@reed.edu (Nelson Minar)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Public displays
Date: 1 Sep 92 06:54:06 GMT
Article-I.D.: reed.1992Sep1.065406.6303
Organization: Reed College, Portland, OR

>Public displays of affection, hand-holding, kissing, should be 
>done without any feeling of shame or impropriety.

My esteemed colleague, formerly of Reed, is right - Reed is a damned
good place to be queer.

There's this guy I flirt with here. We're not "serious", and I don't
know that we will ever be, but I really enjoy being *queer* with him.
I enjoy touching him, and I enjoy kissing him.

And here at Reed, I actually feel safe enough to go up to him at any
time in any group of people and just kiss him. On the lips, tongue,
the whole bit. Doesn't matter if the folks around are strangers or
friends, if we're in private or surrounded by a hundred people.

Is this freedom?
-- 
                __
nelson@reed.edu \/                       Shop as usual and avoid panic buying
From: anderson@macc.wisc.edu (Jess Anderson)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: Sim? status?
Date: 29 Aug 92 20:47:17 GMT
Organization: Madison Academic Computing Center, UW-Madison


In article <thaaang.715114248@cwis> thaaang@cwis.unomaha.edu
(John Dorrance) writes:

>fjvwing@cs.vu.nl (FJ!!) writes:

>>thaaang@cwis.unomaha.edu (John Dorrance) writes:

>>>Jess/Sim Andraberson.

>>By Mavis (*), this sounds absolutely de-gorgeous. I think it is time
>>for another conceptual marriage, if only to keep the word Andraberson
>>alive.

>You horrid creature! Don't marry off *either* *one* of them! One might
>turn jealous and not let the other boink freely. And marriage is a
>strayt institution anyway...

On the last point, things are gay if I say they are.

Since I am not married as of yet, willing suitors are
perfectly welcome to try being charming.  I've been known to
yield to various alluring types.

-- 
Jess Anderson <> Madison Academic Computing Center <> University of Wisconsin
Internet: anderson@macc.wisc.edu <-best, UUCP:{}!uwvax!macc.wisc.edu!anderson
NeXTmail w/attachments: anderson@yak.macc.wisc.edu  Bitnet: anderson@wiscmacc
Room 3130 <> 1210 West Dayton Street / Madison WI 53706 <> Phone 608/262-5888
From: jfh@netcom.com (Jack Hamilton)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: Too straight looking to be gay??? (was re: UNGAY GAY)
Date: 29 Aug 92 02:52:15 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services (408 241-9760 guest)

In article <vanyel.715029696@camelot> vanyel@camelot.bradley.edu (Alan 
Williams) writes, perhaps in attempt to get a speechwriting job with Ronald
Reagan:

>Fuck off, Arne.  Just fuck off.  Not all of us adhere to your the-universe-
>is-out-to-get-me attitudes.  Some of us would prefer harmony to the kind of
>discord you seem to enjoy.

I detect a certain incongruity between the first two sentences and the
last. 

Some of us would prefer harmony to discord, but would also prefer discord
to the false harmony you're talking about.  You want everything to look
smooth, regardless of what emotional price people must pay for making
themselves conform to an exterior standard. 

-- 

-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Jack Hamilton   jfh@netcom.com   P. O. Box 281107   SF, CA   94128-1107
From: sfsmith@pennsas.upenn.edu (Sandy F. Smith, Jr.)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Paging Ron Rizzo...
Keywords: Third time's the charm?
Date: 3 Sep 92 20:51:48 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: University of Pennsylvania

As I was clearing my in-box after two weeks away from the office (Philadelphia
is a wonderful place to visit, everyone should do it sometime), I stumbled
across a matter I meant to follow up on before I left.

In an earlier article describing the motss.con in Portland, one author spoke
of a "Ron Rizzo from Boston" who had attended all five cons.

*Question:* Did this Ron Rizzo ever sing in the Boston Gay Men's Chorus?

If the answer to this question is "Yes," could someone let him know that I
said hello and wonder what he's been up to in the eight or so years since
I left the Chorus and Boston?  (And apologize to him for me for not having
replied the one time he wrote.)

If you're reading this, Ron, drop me a note at my e-mail address below (or,
if you prefer paper, to 1214 Waverly Walk  #304, Philadelphia, PA  19147),
and let me know how you're doing.

Thanks....
**************************************************************************
Sandy F. Smith, Jr. ____________________________ sfsmith@pennsas.upenn.edu
Graduate Division, School of Arts and Sciences, University of Pennsylvania
16 College Hall, Philadelphia, PA 19104-6378.  (Opinions mine, not Penn's)
 
"The God I serve don't make no trash!"
      -- Rev. Emanuel Cleaver, Mayor, City of Kansas City, Mo.
From: rdonahue@spdcc.com (Bob Donahue)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: Guess my age and win a valuable prize!
Date: 24 Aug 92 02:33:20 GMT
Organization: insert anything here

In article <1992Aug23.235720.2341@morrow.stanford.edu> AS.DLH@forsythe.stanford.edu (David Hatt - 5-0083) writes:
>This mystery has puzzled me for awhile and I'm hoping the *motss and
>the cabal would help me see solve this mystery.  This mystery has to
>do with age.
>
>Guys I meet in bars are asking me my age.  I don't get it.  If I'm
>talking to someone, age doesn't matter.  If I'm interested in taking
>him home, age isn't an issue.  I think in a relationship, I would
>like to know his age for milestone birthdays.  We usually exchange
>names and then it is, "So, how old are you, Dave?" "DOES IT SAY 'ASK
>ME MY AGE' ON THE BACK OF MY SHIRT?" I've always told the truth.
>And their jaws drop.  And for enquiring minds, I'm 39 and I look
>younger than that.
>
>Just last night, I was dancing with a friend in a gay bar, when some
>middle-aged woman with her middle-aged male friend tapped me on my
>shoulder and motioned for me to interrupt my dancing to step two
>feet so she could say something to me.  That something was "My
>friend says your 25 and I say you're in your thirties.  So, how old
>are you?" I look at her incrediously and told her.  I dislike stock
>phrases like, "It's none of your business," "What's it to ya?" etc.
>This woman didn't ask other people their ages, just me.
>
>One more thing, it's usually the younger guys asking my age.  The
>woman last night skewed my statistics.
>
>What gives?  Should I take it in stride?  Should I lie about my age?
>(I don't want to do that.)
>
>Is my age part of my persona?  Sorta like my job?
>
>Is it common to exchange ages like dick sizes?  Are there
>hankerchiefs out there to wear in my pocket to classify my age?
>
>Well, cabal and *motss people, what am I not seeing here?
>
>Thanks in advance.
>
>Dave
From: hughes@dogwood.botany.uga.edu (Wayne Hughes)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: Too straight looking to be gay
Date: 3 Sep 92 22:39:47 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: Botany Department - U of Georgia, Athens

In article <1992Sep03.195138.1089@microsoft.com> frankm@microsoft.com (Frank R.A.J. Maloney) writes:
>In article <vanyel.715396480@camelot> vanyel@camelot.bradley.edu (Alan Williams) writes:
>[deletions]
>>
>>I don't like "nelly" behavior.  Period.  I've received nothing on here to
>>suggest that I *should*--only flames for not thinking like *you*.  When
>
>And we can be sure the nelly queens ain't so hot about you,
>either.
   
   Nelly queens aren't the only ones who object.  Of course, we've
   seen that any who object are automatically defined a nelly queen,
   *of course*.

>Of course, we can also be sure you've received simply tons of the
>most scrumptiously supportive e-mail from just all over.
>
>And don't let the fact that categorical hatred is bigotry
>bother one little bit.
>
   Clearly they haven't.  Of course, as bigots do, they call it 
   something else.

   Wayne
Xref: sparky soc.motss:37642 soc.history:7911
From: geb@dsl.pitt.edu (gordon e. banks)
Newsgroups: soc.motss,soc.history
Subject: Re: A Short History ofDiscrimination in the Military
Date: 31 Aug 92 16:08:12 GMT
Followup-To: soc.motss
Organization: Decision Systems Laboratory, Univ. of Pittsburgh, PA.

In article <11954@optilink.UUCP> cramer@optilink.UUCP (Clayton Cramer) writes:

>
>Blacks served in the Confederate Army from 1862, and the Union
>Army from 1863.  There were segregated black units from then

That's interesting.  It was my understanding that the Confederate
Army didn't have blacks.  What is the story on this?

-- 
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Gordon Banks  N3JXP      | "Skepticism is the chastity of the intellect, and
geb@cadre.dsl.pitt.edu   |  it is shameful to surrender it too soon." 
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: manz@ee.ualberta.ca (Brett {Druid Queen} Manz)
Subject: Ontario Human Rights ruling
Organization: University Of Alberta, Edmonton Canada
Date: Thu, 3 Sep 1992 11:46:58 GMT

 
Redefining Marital Status in Ontario
 
        An Ontario Human Rights Commission board of inquiry passed a 
ruling Tuesday that will have far reaching effects in Ontario, and 
could trigger similar changes across Canada.  The Ontario government 
must now extend survivor pension benefits to partners of Gay and 
Lesbian civil servants.
 
        The words "of the opposite sex" have been removed from the 
Ontario Human Rights Code in definitions of marital status.  This 
means that the ruling will also affect the private sector.
 
        "The Human Rights Code now applies with its new wording to 
all employers in Ontario," said the Ontario Human Rights Commission's 
chief commissioner, Catherine Frazee.
 
        "Protection under the Human Rights Code for Gays and Lesbians 
in Ontario extends to protect the relationship as well as the individuals 
who are Gay or Lesbian," she said.
 
        The three member board of inquiry's rulings are legally binding 
and take effect immediately, although they can be appealed through the 
courts.
 
        44 year old Michael Leshner, the Crown attorney who initiated 
the case in 1988, heralded the victory as recognition for homosexuals 
that is long overdue.
 
        "I think today represents the legal emancipation of Gays and 
Lesbians in Ontario and in Canada," he said.
 
        Leshner's partner of ten years, 34 year old Michael Stark, is 
now entitled to pension benefits, and Leshner was also awarded $3,000 
in general damages.
 
        An Ontario Chamber of Commerce, executive director Jim Carnegie, 
said it was too early to comment on what the response of the private 
sector would be.
 
        "The only way you're ever going to find out about it is when an 
employee comes up and requests those sorts of rights," he said.
 
        The Ontario government extended health and dental coverage to 
same-sex partners of employees last year, but at the time said provisions 
of the federal Income Tax Act prevented them from extending pension 
benefits.
 
        The board of inquiry decided that the government had been 
"laggard" in attempting to get the federal government to amend the Income 
Tax Act.
 
        Ontario Attorney General Howard Hampton said that he agrees with 
the decision.  He also noted that the provincial government has been given 
three years by the board to convince the federal government to ammend the 
Tax Act.
 
        Two of the three members of the board of inquiry found that 
denial of benefits violates the Charter of Rights, while the third 
found that it violates the Human Rights Code itself.

-- 
---------------------------------+-------------------------------------
 My opinions are my own.         |  You can't be proud of who you are
 The truth belongs to everyone.  |  if you're ashamed of what you are.
 Civil Rights Are For Queers!    |  Cruise Men, Not Missiles! - anon
From: jhb@calmasd.prime.com (Jim Bishop)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: Gay names
Date: 26 Aug 92 07:03:53 GMT
Organization: -

In article <1992Aug21.140916.3978@macc.wisc.edu>, anderson@macc.wisc.edu (Jess Anderson) writes:
> 
> Not directly on the topic, I *despised* the name Jess until
> I was about 20.  It was my father's name, and I certainly
> didn't like him.  I didn't much care for being Jesse James
> (the outlaw; my middle name is in fact Claire) in grade
> school or other variants later on.  

I'll bet the taunts were endless considering what a hot news
item Jesse James must have been in those days.  

And just what was Thomas Jefferson *really* like?

Jim
From: anderson@macc.wisc.edu (Jess Anderson)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Don't Wait to Check
Date: 27 Aug 92 00:27:16 GMT
Organization: Madison Academic Computing Center, UW-Madison


                  William J. Caucutt
                     1950 - 1992

Billy Caucutt was not known to soc.motss, but he was to many
friends here in Madison, Wisconsin, as well as to his
family.  He died yesterday of complications related to AIDS.
Born in Waunakee, a few miles north of Madison, Billy had
majored in psychology and human factors engineering at the
University of Wisconsin-Madison.  For some years he had
worked for Webcrafters, a major printing firm here.  At the
time of his retirement for health reasons early last year,
he was designing an information system network for
Webcrafters' many presses.

I first met Billy 21 years ago.  He was involved in the
cause of gay liberation almost from its inception on the
Madison campus.  He was incredibly energetic and
enthusiastic, and he was always keenly critical of
half-baked ideas or careless thinking.  But his sharp
analytical powers were leavened by a wonderfully outgoing
and agreeable nature.  One could hardly be around him for
more than a few minutes without being engulfed by laughter.

In recent years our lives had taken us on separate paths,
and I hadn't seen him since a lunch more than a year ago
with a mutual friend.  He told us with evident delight how
great Webcrafters had been about his HIV disease, really
very supportive and accomodating, valuing his services as a
production manager.  Quite by accident I picked up this
morning's paper and saw his name and an obit there.  I had no
idea he was close to death or even seriously ill.  That's
one reason I memorialize him here, for I'm sure many of us
have friends we haven't checked up on recently.  I wish I'd
tracked Billy more closely, for now he is gone.

-- 
Jess Anderson <> Madison Academic Computing Center <> University of Wisconsin
Internet: anderson@macc.wisc.edu <-best, UUCP:{}!uwvax!macc.wisc.edu!anderson
NeXTmail w/attachments: anderson@yak.macc.wisc.edu  Bitnet: anderson@wiscmacc
Room 3130 <> 1210 West Dayton Street / Madison WI 53706 <> Phone 608/262-5888
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: twpierce@amhux1.amherst.edu (Tim Pierce)
Subject: Re: Too straight looking to be gay??? (was re: UNGAY GAY)
Organization: Amherst College, Amherst MA
Date: Thu, 27 Aug 1992 04:35:09 GMT

In article <1992Aug24.044354.1301@reed.edu> nelson@reed.edu (Nelson Minar) writes:

>Aren't you boys crushed that this big strong man doesn't want to fuck you?

Terribly.  I crush myself daily in misery.

-- 
____ Tim Pierce                / "I don't know how much support NAMBLA
\  / twpierce@amherst.edu      /  has in the gay community."
 \/ (BITnet: TWPIERCE@AMHERST) /   -- Clayton Cramer, August 1992
From: pauli@sgi.com (Paul Isaacs)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: Ball Snaps and Calla Lillies, and a game.
Date: 1 Sep 92 02:53:09 GMT
Organization: Silicon Graphics

In article <la5g2gINN3ab@mizar.usc.edu> adolphso@mizar.usc.edu (adolphson) writes:
>In article <p9cqsi0@fido.asd.sgi.com> 
>pauli@uniblab.asd.sgi.com (Paul Isaacs) writes:
>> So we watched the movie "Stage Door" this weekend.  Great flick.  
>> Lucille Ball, Katheryn Hepburn, Eve Arden, Ginger Rogers, and more.
>
>Katharine Hepburn.  She's *very* sensitive about the spelling
>of her name.

Ah, so *THAT'S* why she stopped inviting me over for cocktails.


>> [1] I distinctly saw Lucille Ball *snap* at one of the other characters.
>>    The film was made in 1937, so this seems to be a very early occurence, no?
>>    Has there been a thread on the origin of the snap?  Did it go back this
>>    far?  I'm curious if this was a common thing in the thirties.
>
>Aaaaargh.  The threadlet I started was not about [insert list of snaps here]
>nor any
>of the other kinds of snaps performed by one person at a time.  No.  The
>threadlet I started was about rhythmic unison snapping by groups of
>people, snapping that takes the place of hand-clapping.  

Dearest Arne.  And I was truly looking forward to your comments.  But it looks
as though your ego has gotten the better of you this time.  I was actually
referring to the set of ALL threads about snaps, not merely the set of threads
about snaps introduced by Arne.  There have been others before you, Honeylamb.
And no offense, but actually I skipped your last snap thread.  (Or is that 
"I just snapped a thread skipping?  Ah, well, no matter)


>Read-you-up-down snaps are much in evidence in bitchy comedies from the 
>thirties, so I would imagine they were known out in the real world, too.

Now that's more like it!  This is the info I was sure you could come up with.
Have you got some examples?  And more importantly, where did this start?
Is it a hollywood thing, a bohemian thing, or what?


>> [2] In the film, Katheryn Hepburn gets a part in a play (called something
>>     like "Enchanted April") and her first line on stage is "The calla
>>     lillies are in bloom again. I wore them on my wedding day..."
>>     Now, this line is from "Long Days Journey into Night," isn't it?
>
>Not that I can recall, 

Ah, well.

>Umm.  "Long Day's Journey" *was* first a play.

Umm. Thank you. This much I did know.

>>                                I can't believe Tenessee Williams would
>>     lift a line from "Stage Door," so is it the other way around?  
>
>Umm.  You mean Eugene O'Neill.  

Oops.  And I came real close to looking it up, too.

Well, if we don't come up with some definite answers I'll have to do
one of two things. [1] watch the film again, which I happen to love. It 
reminds me of my family.  or [2] Find someone who'se got the play on
line and search for the word "calla"

Thanks Arne!


pauli.
From: goldfarb@husc4.harvard.edu (Warren Goldfarb)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: UNGAY GAY redux (Was: Re: Too straight looking to be gay)
Date: 4 Sep 92 03:38:41 GMT
Organization: Harvard University

In the light of recent discussions here, I couldn't resist posting
this amusing classified from the most recent issue of _Au_Courant_,
a Philadelphia weekly.  Compared to the original "Ungay gay" ad,
it does accentuate the positive, in a manner of speaking.

MALE BONDING
Athletic masculine guy, 29, seeks firm handshaker for football
watching, pool, breeder bars.  Want your masculine interests.
Write Au Courant ...

Talk about paraphilias!!!


Warren Goldfarb
Department of Philosophy
Harvard University
From: michelle@rlgvax.Reston.ICL.COM (Michelle Elliott)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: move to canada, eh?
Date: 28 Aug 92 16:31:24 GMT
Reply-To: michelle@rlgvax.Reston.ICL.COM (Michelle Elliott)
Distribution: na
Organization: International Computers Limited, Reston, Virginia, USA

In article <1992Aug26.160734.7637@bradley.bradley.edu> larry@bradley.bradley.edu (L. D. Stratton) writes:
>In <1992Aug26.941.54425@dosgate> "paul bobbitt" <paul.bobbitt@canrem.com> writes:
>
>>Given that fact, perhaps some of you exhausted American Gays should
>>consider visiting Canada for the next 10 years or so.  We'd love to
>>have you, and it probably won't be long before same sex marriages are
>>allowed up here, so we could get you across the border that way...
>
>>So, how 'bout it?  Come to the cold country with the warm heart!
>>Paul D. Bobbitt
>   
>   We just may HAVE to and start an underground railroad to get our
>   brothers and sisters out of this country if the Republican party
>   and the folks in Oregon get their way. 


There is one big reason why we in the U.S. of America cannot and should
not simply flee for higher ground to avoid the flood of bigotry:

Unlike Jews fleeing Germany or black slaves fleeing the American
south, we truly leave our fellows behind when we flee.  It is
impossible for all gays to leave the U.S.

Why?  There are more of us born every day.  Think about it.
Even if every gay alive today in the U.S. left, there would be
more again tomorrow.  Picture those gay youths growing up without
a single adult role model or supporter...

Earlier I said "Please Vote".  Now I say "Please Stay".

You can be male or female, butch or femme, Kinsey 6 or Kinsey 3 --
it truly doesn't matter.

             We must *all* stand and fight.


Michelle, who is sinking into seriousness and thus is desparately
          awaiting a silly post to which she can respond
From: drp@dosbears.UUCP (David R. Preston)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: Sim is OK!!
Date: 1 Sep 92 18:39:06 GMT
Reply-To: drp@dosbears.uucp
Organization: DosBears

In article <31AUG92.15262645@enh.nist.gov> aberson@enh.nist.gov writes:
>In a previous article, anderson@macc.wisc.edu (Jess Anderson) wrote:
>>I'm very sorry, I failed to recognize the name Daivd as
>>other than a typo for the extremely common name David.
>
>It's just to catch the eye, since Daivd is in theatre, and casting
>agents, producers and directors are more likely to remember unusual
>names.  It is pronounced like David, just spelled differently.

Oh. Just like Luxury Yacht is pronounced Throat-warbler Mangrove.

--
         David R. Preston   drp@dosbears.uucp dosbears@netcom.com
              Information gladly given but safety requires
               the avoidance of unnecessary conversation.
            D. R. Preston 584 Castro St. #614 SF CA 94114 USA
From: julie@hood.nrl.navy.mil (Julie Hood)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Canadian immigration policy (was Re: move to canada, eh?)
Date: 28 Aug 92 15:37:33 GMT
Distribution: soc

queer people write: 
> >What are Canada's immigration policies about gay men/lesbians?
> 
> As far as I know there are no policies against immigration.  I do
> know that spousal equivalence, in regards to sponsoring foreign
> partners for citizenship, is not given.

Too true regarding queer spouses for citizenship but the same restrictions
on landed immigration status (green cards) apply to hets as to queers.
I'm a US citizen & was considering a position at UBC and checked out 
immigration and health benefit info out for my lover.  Even if I was `legally'
married to a boy, oops nelson, MAN, he would NOT have been granted 
landed immigrant status by virtue of my having a job in Canada.
This is what the Canadian Embassy here in DC told me a few months ago.
Apparently this is a recent (within the last few years) ruling.
However, the University would have extended health care to my spousal
equivalent, even though she is (obviously, to me anyway) of the same sex. 
<gasp!>
But I'm still confused why she would have the domestic partner benefits
but not be legal to work in Canada?!? I though things like health care
were part of Canadian government's socialist structure.
Anybody have some clues... ?
I'm *not* pursuing that job anymore but I am still curious.
Is this the same way it works here in the US?
A foreigner can bring the spouse (only a motos, of course BUT NOT FOR LONG!)
and the spouse is then legal to stay here and can get the domestic partner 
bennies,.... but that spouse can not legally work?

--
Julie, A Hood  
**So many equations, so little time...
(more like **So many questions, so little time...)
Newsgroups: soc.motss