Newsgroups: soc.culture.french
Subject: Re: Guns, Motorcycles, and Internet Access in Paris
From: zeleny@husc9.harvard.edu (Michael Zeleny)
Date: 22 Aug 92 20:06:25 EDT
Organization: The Phallogocentric Cabal

In article <6322@lhdsy1.lahabra.chevron.com> 
yzarn@lhdsy1.lahabra.chevron.com (Philip Yzarn de Louraille) writes:

>In article <1992Aug22.152202.15017@husc3.harvard.edu>
>zeleny@husc9.harvard.edu (Michael Zeleny) writes:

>... deleted stuff ...

PYL:
>>polite inquiry on s.c.f.  Unfortunately, I haven't counted on the small but
>>vociferous presence of hypocritical, egocentric, condescending chauvinists
>>like you and Luc Maillet, the sort that confuse the crack of their ass with
>>the axis of the universe, just as they habitually confuse the incoherent
>>emissions of their gob with the _vox populi, vox Dei_, and their sincere,
>>ill-considered philistinism -- with the lofty Platonic ideal of morality,
>>the sort that readily grant themselves an unlimited license to prejudge and
>>insult their interlocutor, as well as to bashfully take umbrage at the
>>reciprocal deployment of strong language in their own direction.  Still,
>>you must pardon me for clinging to my naive conviction that the spectrum of
>>French political opinion is not exhausted by your effete and bombastic
>>sort; that there yet remain in France a few heirs of Baudelaire, Vall\`es,
>>Lautr\'eamont, Jarry, Apollinaire, Breton, and Char, who are not liable to
>>faint when confronted with strong language, nor to run away from the sight
>>of naked weapons.  As for the rest, you will understand my not finding them
>>too interesting, and consequently -- not paying too much attention to their
>>numerous opinions.
>>
>>mikhail zeleny@husc.harvard.edu
>>"Un de mes plus grands plaisirs est de jurer Dieu quand je bande."

PYL:
>Say, Michael (or is it mikhail?),

Either way, as you wish.

PYL:
>				   you are starting to become a real
>nuisance.

Thank you; I try my best to please.

PYL:
>The above paragraph applies to you as well, don't you know? With the
>difference that you confuse the length of your erect penis with that 2"
>sub-nose revolver. (cheap joke, but what the hell...)

The salient difference is that when a stranger makes an inquiry pertaining
to the laws of my country, I do what I can to answer, but in any case
abstain from hostile questioning of his motives, intelligence, or sanity,
or from wishing that he fail in his undertaking.  Suppose I had made an
inquiry concerning the availability of emergency medical help for a foreign
national in France; what would you think of someone who would express his
wish that I not be able to get it?

PYL:
>For your information, I did post last sunday a message which summed my
>knowledge of french laws and gun ownerships. When I lived in France, I
>owned several handguns (Smith&Wesson, 357 Magnum and 44 Magnum, in 6" and 8"
>and 3/8 barrel length). I had these legally and could carry them to and
>from the shooting range (dismantled, of course, with some parts in the
>trunk and other parts in the glove compartment).
>
>As you are making a pest of yourself, I am not going to repost my original
>post (what the hell happened to it? I myself never saw it being
>posted....)

Well, your post never made it out here either.  But please tell me -- how
do you expect one to react to the sort of gratuitous, unprovoked insults
that have been meted out to me in the past week?  Would you have liked me
better, had I swallowed my dignity and beat a hasty retreat?  Or should I
have grovelled before the mighty pronouncements of your compatriots,
abjectly deferring to their wishes concerning the disposition of myself and
my weapons?  Sorry, but where I come from, one gives exactly as much
courtesy as one gets.

PYL:
>If you really want to get to the bottom of french laws concerning
>foreigners importing (or carrying) weapons to France, please refer to your
>nearest french consulate. Either that or bring your "tools" to France and
>tell the custom agents when they ask you if you have something to declare
>that you are in possession of several weapons and see them getting in
>action. You will then learn of these laws right away.

I *have* referred to my nearest French consulate, which wasn't terribly
helpful.  My purpose here consisted in eliciting information of private
experience of French shooting enthusiasts, including, but not limited to,
suggestions on how to deal with the local regulations in a relatively
painless fashion.  This sort of information just wouldn't be forthcoming
through the official channels.  Perhaps you might be able to relate to my
predicament, if you tried (for all I know, you already have) asking the US
Immigration and Naturalization service about the best ways for you to get a
US green card.

PYL:
>I know it is really hard for you to understand that, but it is not because
>something is constitutionally "right" in the US that that makes that law
>"right" (in the US and other parts of the world.)

Nonsense.  I have never pronounced that French laws were not "right"; my
sole concern is in finding a way to deal with them so as to get as many of
my wishes satisfied, as I possibly can.

PYL:
>Your last sentence above, when you mention that you do not pay much
>attention to numerous opinions that you do not find "interesting" is at
>the root of your problems. You are a gun fanatic, and fanatics do not
>reason well because they are unable to pay attention to other people
>differing opinions. Fanatics cannot make "reasonnable" judgements because
>they have a vision which is too narrow. It is a self-imposed impairment.

More nonsense.  The sort of opinions I dismiss are the hostile ones, which
I have made abundantly clear in my own retaliatory message above.
Moreover, if you have any supporting evidence for pronouncing me a "gun
fanatic", whatever you might mean by that, please let me see it.  Hint:
nowhere have I made any allusion to any sort of right or principle which
would allow me to place myself above the law, nor have I dismissed or
otherwise failed to address any reasonable expression of opposing views.

PYL:
>You may have noticed that I eliminated the "talk.guns.?" that you had
>redirected these posts to. What is the matter, Michael? Can't you debate by
>yourself? Or do you need the help of others?

It is my custom to cross-post to relevant groups.  However, since your
disagreement is stated with a modicum of good manners (the penis joke and
jumping to conclusions notwithstanding), I'll be happy to respect your
wishes in the present case.  Whatever you wish to debate in a calm,
reasoned manner, will be addressed likewise.

>Have a nice day.
>
>-- 
>  Philip Yzarn de Louraille                 Internet: yzarn@chevron.com
>  Research Support Division                 Unix & Open Systems
>  Chevron Information & Technology Co.      Tel: (310) 694-9232
>  P.O. Box 446, La Habra, CA 90633-0446     Fax: (310) 694-7709

cordially,
mikhail zeleny@husc.harvard.edu
"Un de mes plus grands plaisirs est de jurer Dieu quand je bande."