HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: rose@acf9.nyu.edu (David Rose)
Newsgroups: alt.games.torg
Subject: Re: MY VIEW: Cyberpapacy
Date: 10 Apr 92 17:41:16 GMT
Organization: New York University

bpostow@barney.oberlin.edu (Brian Postow) writes:

>an interesting side affect of this system [i don't think it is bad
>either] is that say, a CE person coming into CP will have disco
>problems. Because his automatic pistol and kevlar vest are above the
>12 tech axiom and WERE NEVER BLESSED. only CP tech can be used safely
>in CP... I think that that adds a LOT of spice to the cosm. 

  Exactly. :-)  The other problem is that no one else in the cosm will
be able to use CE's equipment at all, and will understand that something
is up.

>hmm, is it just the tech that has to be blessed or is it ever specific
>item that is blessed? I mean, in a cyberdeck factory, do yo have to
>have a resident Cyberpriest and a resident congregation who ALL day
>long just bless cyberdecks? or does some bishop somewhere look at some
>plans for a cyberdeck and say "cool, it's blessed" or whatever [insert
>ritual here]?

  The former, as the latter would make CP no different from a high tech
realm.  The restriction is that one cannot "bless" ideas, which are what
plans, in essence, are.  One must bless the object itself.

  However rather than have the cyberpriest and congregation bless
cyberdecks all day long, I think that the day's production would be
gathered on the altar of the chapel and then the resident priest along
with the community of the faithful (who probably are the ones who
assembled the decks in the first place) bless the lot.  It would take
longer to bless a lot of decks than it would to bless one, but the
total time would be less, as the focusing and gathering of faith
need only be done once.

  It would also serve to limit the number of decks in the Cyberpapacy.
So they would be precious and there is incentive for the church authorities
to provide public decking places (chapels).  As the priests believe that
the GodNet will be able to punish unbelievers there is little effort made
to check those that use the public nets.  Also, the I-spy equipment of
the Inquisition is also precious, so there is less constant monitoring.
Suspects are monitored by high-tech, and then left to their own devices
for a while to draw in other conspirators.  Then the Inquisition pulls
everybody in ...







--
David Rose
Courant Institute of Mathematical Sciences
251 Mercer Street, New York, NY 10012
rose@math12.cims.nyu.edu
Newsgroups: alt.games.torg
From: aw1s+@andrew.cmu.edu (Andrew David Weiland)
Newsgroups: alt.games.torg
Subject: Re: Psionics and Magic
Date: 11 Apr 92 05:33:42 GMT
	<rose.702929523@acf9>
Organization: Junior, Philosophy, Carnegie Mellon, Pittsburgh, PA

David Rose writes,

>I think that Tech and Social is stable only as a matter of circumstance
>and they are no more inherently stable than the other two.

I think the rules state otherwise, but I'll have to look it up.  But I'm
not hostile to your idea.  Sometimes history makes more sense if you
suppose that there are periodic axiom shifts after which society takes a
long time to catch up.  

In Earth's case, the last tech shift would have been in the 1920s, when
both relativity and quantum mechanics were discovered.  The last social
shift would have been in the 1930s, which saw the spread of facist,
communist, and mixed capitalist governments (of course this contradicts
the assumption that a rise in the social axiom is a good thing).

Myself, I prefer the hypothesis that Earth has always had a high Social
Axiom, and it's only recently that we've been able to use it to its full
potential.  Which unfortunately means that we worry more, because a more
advanced society is truly impossible; that is, for a while.

>>  All of the technology and magic skills are Mind- or Perception-based, 
>
>  some tech skills are dex based, as melee weapons and lockpicking

Good point.

>>and all of the spiritual skills are Spirit- based.  But Social skills
are half
>>mental (trick, test, psionics) and half based on the oddball stat
>>Charisma.
>
>  Q:  What attribute would you base a sexual performance skill on?

Sexual skills, um, can be Dexterity based or Charisma based; they are
concentrations of the Dance and Performance skills (new skills I use,
I'll post them someday soon).

Dance (Sexual) is the purely physical aspects of sex, and is no more
social than Acrobatics.  Performance (Sexual) covers the interpersonal
aspects.

 >Generally I layer the attributes this way:
>
>      STR, DEX  (physical/material attributes)
>      MIN, PER  (mental attributes)
>      SPI, CHA  (spiritual/mystical/emotional attributes)
>      TOU       (life-force, a combination of phys/ment/spiritual
>                resilience.)

I do the same, but I say that Toughness is a physical attribute because
we exist on a primarily physical plane (exception ghosts, constructs). 
One of my weirder ideas was treating Charisma as Spiritual Dexterity;
and basing Focus on Charisma.  Which makes a sort of sense when you
think about it, as Focus is in part a function of leadership ability.


Andrew "Don't change the Cyberpapacy, it's bad enough already" Weiland
Newsgroups: alt.games.torg
From: malloy@nprdc.navy.mil (Sean Malloy)
Subject: Re: How do axioms really work?
X-Gated-By: The Black Marble Wombat@morticia.cnns.unt.edu
X-Gated-From: torg mailing list
Organization: University of North Texas
X-Gatemail-Version: 1.0b
Date: Tue, 7 Apr 1992 16:09:26 GMT

> >The energy that a bow delivers is the result of the bowstave's
> >resistance to being bent. If, under the axioms of the Living Land, a
> >bowstave, regardless of its construction, will store no more energy
> >than a short self bow, then _any_ tree limb in the Living Land will be
> >unable to support the weight of a grown human, regardless of its size.
> 
>     not at all. a tree limb is alive; as such it can support some given
> load based on whatever physics happen to work in the living land.
> your desired bowstave is dead; all bets are off. ESPECIALLY in the
> living land.

A dead limb on a tree is identical to a dead limb on the ground; both
obey the same laws of physics in that cosm; if a thicker branch is
harder to bend, it will give more energy to an arrow if made into a
bow. But I was referring in my example to cutting off a branch and
immediately using it as a bowstave; it takes _days_ for a cut-off limb
to die.

-- 
random sig #104:
                                             | ". . . They always have an air of
Sean Malloy                                  | cheap melodrama about them."
Navy Personnel Research & Development Center | "You will find, my dear, that
San Diego, CA 92152-6800                     | _true_ melodrama _never_ comes
malloy@nprdc.navy.mil                        | cheap."
Newsgroups: alt.games.torg
From: cdr@kpc.com (Carl Rigney)
Subject: Re: the rose papacy
X-Gated-By: The Black Marble Wombat@morticia.cnns.unt.edu
X-Gated-From: torg mailing list
Organization: University of North Texas
X-Gatemail-Version: 1.0b
Date: Mon, 6 Apr 1992 23:39:31 GMT

Aspects of tech that the Pope doesn't understand?  Neat idea.
Hmm, maybe what he needs is some angels that understand technology.
Great opportunity for the Tharkold TechnoDemons if they just apply a
little illusion or doubletalk, e.g. "We look hideous to your eyes
because you aren't capable of perceiving our glory with merely human
eyes.  Here, take these new eyes and see us as we really are."

Probably *too* subtle a ploy for the TD's.

I like the idea of marketing cyber-eyes that have an override to refuse
to see certain things - a great trick for Nippon Tech, especially.
You could pull the same trick with Smartguns, too. :-)

--
Carl Rigney
cdr@kpc.com

"Cybernetic angels drifting through the streets
 looking for a new god to rebel against."
Organization: Junior, Philosophy, Carnegie Mellon, Pittsburgh, PA
Newsgroups: alt.games.torg
Date: Sun, 12 Apr 1992 15:45:35 -0400 
From: Andrew David Weiland <aw1s+@andrew.cmu.edu>
Subject: Re: Is anybody here?

The list is active but you're not getting anything, so I'm sending you a
copy of my message to the group.

Elf-Cyberware: The character isn't really any more limited than any
other character for cyberware.  But cyberware for an Aylse native is
always a contradiction (and a 4-case contradiction in most realms),
checked for at the beginning of every scene & when used.

This is a little bit of a munchkin manuever, and I'd tend to discourage
it.  One thing you could do is make transformation checks for the
cyberware whenever the character disconnects outside of combat.  The
numbers needed are extremely high, but it would make the character think
twice before they got a lot of cyberware.

What would the cyberware transform into?  In Aylse surgery is possible,
including false limbs.  So the cyberware would probably transform into
surgically implanted metal or wood devices; useless, harmless, and
easily removed by magic.

Earth-mage: Grimoire spells are a contradiction for a Core Earth
character, and a 4-case contradiction in Earth, Nippon, Star Sphere, &
Living Land.  I say they're not a passive contradiction, & won't
transform if the character doesn't; you could rule otherwise.
Newsgroups: alt.games.torg
From: gtephx!carnesm@asuvax.eas.asu.edu (Mark E. Carnes)
Subject: Re: unknown difficulty
X-Gated-By: The Black Marble Wombat@morticia.cnns.unt.edu
X-Gated-From: torg mailing list
Organization: University of North Texas
X-Gatemail-Version: 1.0b
Date: Wed, 15 Apr 1992 21:12:10 GMT

> One of the mchanics of Torg is that players can spend to increase their rolls
> when they would otherwise have failed.

The way I remember it, they can spend a possibility if they THINK they may have
failed (which is different).  You don't tell them what the difficulty
is, but if they roll a 5, chances are, they'll spend the possibility.  If they
roll a 15 (wow +2!) chances are they won't unless they've been unsuccessful
before.

                           - Mark
From: soholt@aludra.usc.edu (Timothy Soholt)
Newsgroups: alt.games.torg
Subject: Re: A can of worms to detonate
Date: 11 Apr 1992 23:51:08 -0700
Organization: University of Southern California, Los Angeles, CA
NNTP-Posting-Host: aludra.usc.edu

In article <1992Apr12.020349.8973@muddcs.claremont.edu>
tbrowne@jarthur.claremont.edu (T. Erik Browne) writes:

>I've never seen a quark.  Nobody I know has seen a quark.  If you can't
>observe it, then it doesn't exit.  

There's a big difference between seeing and observing, though. I can't 
_see_ the cold air moving through the room I'm in as I write this, but
I still _observe_ that the air conditioner is working.

-- Tim Soholt (soholt@aludra.usc.edu), The Man With No .sig
From: rose@acf9.nyu.edu (David Rose)
Newsgroups: alt.games.torg
Subject: Toon cosm
Date: 14 Apr 92 16:32:40 GMT
Article-I.D.: acf9.rose.703269160
Organization: New York University

bhv@areaplg2.corp.mot.com (Bronis Vidugiris) writes:

> I see no reason why you can't have Toon phyics in Torg - except
>for disgust on the part of GM's as to what Toon characters will do in the
>'real' world :-).  [Well, there's always ink eradicator].

  The `dip', I presume.  Besides, toons will inevitably disconnect, and
probably will have to go home to reconnect if the difficulty is high
(which it should be).

  "Who Framed Roger Rabbit" is a great example to think about how one
would play a 'toon in Core Earth.  (Toontown is a Toon dominant cosm,
Hollywood is mixed.)

  And yes, the Deity of a toon cosm is the Animator, with whom daffy
duck is known to be on relatively good terms with.

  Toon World Law #32767:  (Law of Stereotyping)

  Each character belongs to a dramatic stereotype and their actions
are modified +3/-3 for actions that confirm/contradict that stereotype.

--
David Rose
Courant Institute of Mathematical Sciences
251 Mercer Street, New York, NY 10012
rose@math12.cims.nyu.edu
From: albert@chain.ssctr.bcm.tmc.edu (Rick Jones)
Newsgroups: alt.games.torg
Subject: Re: Psionic "Energy Routing"
Keywords: TORG
Date: 9 Apr 1992 22:30:02 GMT
Organization: Baylor College of Medicine

In article <1992Apr07.200156.2178@stiatl.salestech.com> rwt@stiatl.salestech.com (Roger Terrell) writes:
>
>I've created a character with the psionic power of "Energy Routing."  Aside
>from grabbing energy from energy weapons, what else can you imagine this
>being used for?  Do you think that the power could be used to wrench
>energy out of electrical sockets, etc?

	Yes, I think someone with ER would be able to grab energy from
sockets.  (Not that much tho.)   It also could be used to drain car batteries,
fry portable computers, and all sorts of other fun stuff.

>Also, how useful is this power vs. energy weapons?  If the "heroes" get
>initiative, then there is no energy being fired at them just then.  If the
>"villains" get initiative, then the character wont get to activate the
>power until after already having been shot...

	If the heroes get initiative, and Mister Mind readies his energy
routing against a villain's GODLight, and then the villain doesn't fire,
then I'd say that Mister Mind can continue abosrbing next turn or try 
something else.  If they lost, and he puts it up, I'd let it work next 
turn.  (of course, if they won the next one, then he's wasted an action.)
-- 
Rick Jones				Systems Support Center
albert@bcm.tmc.edu			Baylor College of Medicine
Voice: 713-798-7352			standard disclaimers apply
Thank you all for coming, I'll spend your money foolishly.-J.Buffett
Organization: Junior, Philosophy, Carnegie Mellon, Pittsburgh, PA
Newsgroups: alt.games.torg
Date: Sat, 11 Apr 1992 02:03:11 -0400 
From: Andrew David Weiland <aw1s+@andrew.cmu.edu>
Subject: Cyberpapacy, Tharkold, Other Stuff

Priests: I looked up the Exorcism miracle in the Cyberpapcy.  The axiom
level seems a little high; especially when you consider that Rood
Awakening (the ubermiracle) is possible at a lower axiom level.

Ward Enemy: I'm not sure I like the fact that a person can take damage
from using this miracle.

Reality Storm: I don't like the idea that reality storms can be
automatically invoked.  I'd like to think that the Cyberpapacy is the
result of a Kandandra reality storm; which illustrates one of the
dangers of reality storms; sometimes they work.

I'd also like to think there are five ways to invoke a reality storm
1) Brute force.  Generate a really high Reality total, say 25.  The one
advantage to this method is that the invocation total is also the first
attack total.
2-5 involve the various axioms, 
2) Magic: Create an invoke storm spell; pattern is Alteration/Life, the
necessary effect value is based on the cosm's magical axiom.
3) Spirit: Use a variant of the exorcism miracle; difficulty is based on
the cosm's spiritual axiom.  Focus invokes the storm, Faith adds success
level (+/- 1-5) to the first attack total.
4-5) Social/Tech: Variants of Telempathy and Nueral Interface.  Don't
worry about it because it's above CE axiom levels.

2nd Idea: Difficulty for a reality storm is 25 minus the difference
rating between cosms; that is, the difficulty number for reconnection.

I Wonder: What connection exists between Tharkold and the Godnet?

Musical Quote--Who Can Identify This?
"I feel a sense of possibility,
"I feel a wrenching of reality,
"The focus is sharp in the city."

Andrew "Enough TORG for one night" Weiland
From: rose@acf9.nyu.edu (David Rose)
Newsgroups: alt.games.torg
Subject: Re: Long time no see! (dammit)
Date: 14 Apr 92 16:25:35 GMT
Article-I.D.: acf9.rose.703268735
Organization: New York University

meaton@musubi.pubnet.com (Michael) writes:

>        One, if nobody objects, I's like to take up the duty of maintaining 
>the Rouge's Gallery, since I've had some cool ideas for additions, and ...

  Great!  So far as I know no one is maintaining the Rogue's gallery
at the present time.

>        Secondly, I've got a bit of a poser here for the folks on the list. 
>I have an idea for a Cosm that is sorta-invading sorta-not invading Core 
>Earth. I think it's a REALLY cool idea, personally (but then I'm biased), 
>and I had originally intended on submitting it to WEG and seeing if they 
>were interested in it. But since Tharkold came out, I'm wondering if there's 
>any hope for the addition of another cosm to the roster (like I said, it's 

  Consider submitting it anyway.  Especially if the cosm fills a gap that
the current WEG cosms don't fill.  The worst thing that will happen is
nothing.
--
David Rose
Courant Institute of Mathematical Sciences
251 Mercer Street, New York, NY 10012
rose@math12.cims.nyu.edu
From: cluther@morticia.cnns.unt.edu (Clay Luther)
Newsgroups: alt.games.torg
Subject: Re: unknown difficulty
Date: 16 Apr 92 18:07:51 GMT
Organization: University of North Texas

Z_COPEAB@CCSVAX.SFASU.EDU (BRANDON COPE) writes:

>Kinda makes spending possibilities to help action kinda useless then, if the
>player, can't be mreo sure what they need. Also really hurts new players BADLY,
>since they don't know the system yet. What you'll end up with is either 
>possibilities being wasted or not used when they shoudl be. If your going to
>make it hit and miss, why bother with them?

Not so Brandon.  A helpful (and intelligent GM) can scoot around the absolutism
of the rules by hinting to the players (when needed or obvious).

Example:

Player wants to swing across Fire-Breathing-Chasm(tm) on Dangly-Vine(tm).
The GM determines the difficulty to be 13 (the Chasm is Fire-Breathing, after
all).

The player has an acrobatics skill of 10.  He somewhat poorly and gets a total
of 9.  He must now consider whether or not to spend a possibility.

As GM in this case, I would describe to the player what's happening (very
cinematic).

"You grab the end of the Dangly-Vine(tm) and leap off the edge of the Chasm.
You're swinging across.  Boy, that vine is slippery.  You're having trouble
keeping hold of the vine.  You're slipping!  You're right over the fire now,
it's burning your toes!"

The player will usually get the hint and spend the possibility.

-- 
Clay W. Luther                  cluther@morticia.cnns.unt.edu
System Manager                  Center for Network Neuroscience
University of North Texas       PO Box 5218 Denton, Texas 76203
817/565-3896,3472               aka. Malraux@GodNet (Bushashuru!)
From: meaton@musubi.pubnet.com (Michael)
Subject: Long time no see! (dammit)
X-Gated-By: The Black Marble Wombat@morticia.cnns.unt.edu
X-Gated-From: torg mailing list
Organization: University of North Texas
X-Gatemail-Version: 1.0b
Date: Sun, 12 Apr 1992 07:28:00 GMT


        Well yes, I've had yet another mailbox overflow, and I lost near a 
week of the list. And if I had FTP, I'd get the archives, but I don't, so I 
won't. If anybody actualy remembers the last response they sent me about 
anything, please mail me. Thanks. Two things:

        One, if nobody objects, I's like to take up the duty of maintaining 
the Rouge's Gallery, since I've had some cool ideas for additions, and 
they'll never get stuck in unless I do it myself! :-) I've already got a 
copy of it mailed to me through a friend, and if Clay sez it's okay, I can 
mail it to him to add to the FTP directories. Comments, questions, death 
threats?

        Secondly, I've got a bit of a poser here for the folks on the list. 
I have an idea for a Cosm that is sorta-invading sorta-not invading Core 
Earth. I think it's a REALLY cool idea, personally (but then I'm biased), 
and I had originally intended on submitting it to WEG and seeing if they 
were interested in it. But since Tharkold came out, I'm wondering if there's 
any hope for the addition of another cosm to the roster (like I said, it's 
not REALLY invading. Similar to the Land Below in that respect), and I'm 
also wondering if I can make it original enough, since my preliminary world 
laws are similar to a world law from Asyle, Nippon Tech, and Tharkold 
respectively. 
        So, what should I do? Scrap the idea entirely? Submit it anyway? 
Create it and send it to the FTP directory? Does anyone want a brief 
overview of the Cosm before they chip in their two cents? Does anybody care? 
Am I asking too many questions? :-) :-) Comments, including flames, are 
appreciated. However, flames will be printed out and used to line the bottom 
of my cat's litter box. :-)

Thanks much.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------
 Internet:  meaton@musubi.pubnet.com (Michael)
   Twisted Pair: +1 800 521 1355
      STUDIO MUSUBI - Home of Hawaii's Anime and Manga Enthusiasts.
          Honolulu, Hawaii's Free Public Access Internet/Usenet System
Newsgroups: alt.games.torg
From: Rick Pim <RICK@QUCDNEE.bitnet>
Subject: things that make you scratch your head, #2.
X-Gated-By: The Black Marble Wombat@morticia.cnns.unt.edu
X-Gated-From: torg mailing list
Organization: University of North Texas
X-Gatemail-Version: 1.0b
Date: Sun, 5 Apr 1992 18:58:00 GMT


a content-free post. sorry.

after the first thing a couple of weeks ago (the Dark Avenger being
converted to Faith (Raya)), last night we had The Most Bizarre Spending
of a Possibility that i've yet seen:

the Victorian Lunatic was trying to discern the whereabouts of Mantooth.
(aside: the first subplot he ever played was a True Identity on the
Orient Express: turns out he looked exactly like the vampire. since then
he's Campaigned a Mistaken Identity with the inevitable consequences.)

in any case, the count was performing his Occult ritual. it involved
(briefly) passing a fly through Mantooth's Ring, playing a recording of
Mantooth's voice to the fly, casting a Bless Perception Miracle on the
fly, and releasing it to alight upon a globe of the earth. the point
where it landed was to be the location of Mantooth.

of course, he botched the miracle. :-) he looked at his Possibility
total (three, i think :-), a his available cards (none relevant - he had
traded to get cards to help with his Occult total), at the potential
ruination of his entire ritual, and said "Spend!" so his third-last
Possibility was spent to bless the perception of a fly. :-)

rp
Newsgroups: alt.games.torg
From: jwchas@eng.clemson.edu (jerry wayne chastain)
Subject: Nippon Tech in Cali
X-Gated-By: The Black Marble Wombat@morticia.cnns.unt.edu
X-Gated-From: torg mailing list
Organization: University of North Texas
X-Gatemail-Version: 1.0b
Date: Wed, 8 Apr 1992 14:33:17 GMT

O.K., for you folks out there with a little bit more knowledge than me, here is
a question.

What exactly happened in the Western Living Land when Nippon Tech took over?

Myself and a friend were looking at the two maps (LL SB and NT SB) and trying
to figure out what exactly happened.  Comparing the two, the farthest south
stelae bounded area in the LL SB (a pure zone including Sacramento where the
bridge came down) had its stelae uprooted and the stelae were replaced with
NT stelae.  3327 then immediately dropped his own bridge into Sacramento and
the area became NT pure.  The question comes in when discussing the mixed
regions surrounding the Nippon Tech pure region.  These regions are mixed LL 
and NT.  Whose stelae are bounding these regions?  These mixed regions connect
directly to both the NT pure and LL dominant regions.  This says to me that 
regions are bounded and the reality altered when any three stelae, not
necessarily three from the same cosm, are in range.  How else can you explain
a transition from NT pure, through a NT/LL mixed, to a LL dominant?

Question number two is, since Baruk Kaah's bridge in the west was destroyed,
how can the LL stelae in the west shunt the possiblity energy they are
collecting to Rec Pakken?  Doesn't there need to be a bridge of some sort
for the possibility energy to flow along back to the DD?  Is 3327's DD ( I 
don't remember the name ) getting that possibilty energy?

Does anyone have any ideas on any of the above.


				O	  "There's death from the
Oyster Boy			O	  beginning to the end of time,
J. Wayne Chastain		O	  and I'm the Cosmic Champion and
jwchas@eng.clemson.edu	  BBBB  *  CCCC	  I hold a mystic sign.  And the
				?	  whole worlds dying and the
Lyrics courtesy of		?	  burdens mine and the black 
Blue Oyster Cult	      ?  ?	  sword keeps on killing to the 
			       ??	  end of time. Black Blade!!!"

Newsgroups: alt.games.torg