HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: peter@ux1.cso (Peter R. Tattam)
Subject: rec.audio.high-end is humorous
Originator: tjk@csd4.csd.uwm.edu
Organization: Psychology Department, University of Tasmania
Date: Fri, 11 Sep 1992 17:38:43 GMT
  (5.67a8/IDA-1.5 for <rec-audio-high-end@ux1.cso.uiuc.edu>); Thu, 10 Sep 1992 14: 14:04 -0500
  (5.67a/IDA-1.5 for rec-audio-high-end@ux1.cso.uiuc.edu); Thu, 10 Sep 1992 19: 14:02 GMT

I am an engineer and I have read this group for some time now, not for 
information, but for laughs.  The people in this group that think audio is 
an art and not a science obviously don't know anything about the science.  
An amplifier isn't just 'painted' it is engineered using SCIENTIFIC 
principles.  The people who hear the difference between gold and silver 
plated contacts are the ones that I like best.  A recent issue of radio and 
electronics proved that the 'AUDIOPHILE' test methods (prolonged listening) 
are bogus.  In an A-B-X test most of your theories would be proved wrong. 
The people who think it's an art should learn more about the psyco-acoustics 
and the power of the mind.  If you THINK it is better, you will actually 
hear a difference.  The A-B-X test is a way of proving.  Somewhere someone 
told somebody that there was an electrical difference between silver and 
gold.  While this is measureable (barely) the amount of difference it would 
make by just plating the ends and contacts could not possibly be heard.  Don'
t flame me on Gold plated ends,  I do think there good but only because they 
corrode less and even the corrosion has a low resistance.  I'm not 
calling any of the audiophiles out there names or saying they are 
stupid,  but some of them are extremely misinformed.  The case I cite 
is one an engineer friend of mine ran across.  In a local high-end 
stereo store an self-proclamed audiophile was listening to a set of stereo 
speakers. He appeared to like them until my friend went up and noticed that 
the tweeters were completely dead.  He hadn't noticed at all that there were 
no highs.  Many people who claim they can hear little differences really hav 
e poor overall hearing when tested properly.  Have your hearing checked and 
do some proper testing of your theories,  many of them will turn out false.

MGM

Newsgroups: rec.audio.high-end
From: peterca@ento.csiro.au
Subject: Re: Tube sources
Originator: tjk@csd4.csd.uwm.edu
Organization: University of Wisconsin - Milwaukee
Date: Thu, 10 Sep 1992 12:56:09 GMT


>In article <9209030534.AA02737@spider.ento.csiro.au>, Peter Campbell writes:
>|> 
>|> Dan Kester asks various questions about tubes.  I am fairly new to this too
>|> but will pass on what I have gathered.
>|> >Is there a difference between 12AX7 and 12AX7A?
>|> I'm told it is a small internal mechanical improvement- not something to
>|> worry about.
>
>It depends on your point of view -- the "A" version has "controlled" noise
>and hum characteristics, having an average of 1.8uVRMS (10KHz bandwidth)
>refered to the grid.  Note that this is narrow by an octave and only 60dB
>below a typical phono source in the millivolt range.  Furthermore, the number
>is essentially meaningless as the spectrum is not given.  I wouldn't suggest
>either device for low noise applications.
>
>Rich
Thanks for the extra detail.  However good ones can be quiet.  I have a
valve MC cartridge stepup which was made locally (Cohan brand, for sale
too!).  It had some ordinary 12AX7s in it when I got it and it was very
noisy.  I replaced these with Golden Dragon 12AX7s and it is now adequately
quiet even with my very low output cartridge (100uV).  (It was replaced
with a stepup transformer which was quieter and small improvements in other
respects)

Also posted was:

>Yes, I also am new in the tube area.  I have a DYNA PAS preamp which I am 
>told needs new tubes.  "Golden Dragons" or something were specifically 
>mentioned.  How do I make these decisions and where would I order from?

Sorry if I forgot to say.  PM Components (see recent posting) sell Golden
Dragon as well as other high spec varieties.  For example, 12AX/T/U7s are
4.95 pounds.  KT66s are 20.00 pounds per matched pair on my price list
(last year).  I understand others are selling these at much higher prices.

----------------------------------------
Peter Campbell
C/O Div. Entomology, C.S.I.R.O.
Box 1700 Canberra A.C.T. 2601
Australia  (peterca@ento.csiro.au)
Ph.61-6-2464158 (w), 61-6-2516213 (h)
----------------------------------------


Newsgroups: rec.audio.high-end
From: Richard Zimmerman <YAQX@cornella.cit.cornell.edu>
Subject: Repair Information
Originator: tjk@csd4.csd.uwm.edu
Nntp-Posting-User: rsz1@cornell.edu
Organization: Cornell University
Date: Tue, 15 Sep 1992 13:54:35 GMT
  (5.67a8/IDA-1.5 for rec-audio-high-end@uunet.uu.net); Mon, 14 Sep 1992 13: 41:07 -0400

	About 2 years ago I purchased a Carver HR-752 receiver.  It has worked
fairly well until recently.  Unfortunately, it no longer powers up.  I'm
wondering if anyone out there has had any experience in dealing with the
"official" Carver service centers.  I'm pretty handy myself in fixing
such things, does Carver provide any technical/repair literature or does
Sam's have a publication out on this particular unit?   Any help would be
GREATLY appriciated!

 ---- Richard Zimmerman (rsz1@cornell.edu)

Newsgroups: rec.audio.high-end
From: nursalim@suna0.cs.uiuc.edu (F.X. Nursalim Hadi)
Subject: Electrostatic/Ribbon/Dome speaker questions
Originator: tjk@csd4.csd.uwm.edu
Organization: University of Illinois at Urbana-Champaign
Distribution: rec.audio.high-end
Date: Tue, 15 Sep 1992 13:58:45 GMT
	(queueing-rmail) id 234419.3044; Mon, 14 Sep 1992 23: 44:19 EDT
  (5.64+/IDA-1.3.4 for rec-audio-high-end); Mon, 14 Sep 92 21: 37:16 -0500
  (5.65b/IDA-1.4.3 for uunet!rec-audio-high-end); Mon, 14 Sep 92 21: 37:10 -0500


I would like to ask opinions regarding -conventional- speakers,
i.e. Thiel CS2.2, -ribbon- speakers, i.e. Magnepan 2.6/R or
Apogee The Stage, and -electrostatic- speakers, i.e. Martin Logan
Sequel II.

Different technology of speaker components makes me wondering: what does
it gain from the tecnology ? Specifically, in what things that 
conventional speakers are generally better than ribbon ones, or 
vise versa. Ribbon vs electrostatic, and conventional vs 
electrostatic. 

I am considering to buy a pair of speakers, however, I have difficulty
in judging/comparing those different speakers w/ different technology
for this purpose. Comparing sound coming from them (i.e. Mirage M3 and
Magnepan 2.6) is more difficult than that from same conventional speakers
(i.e. Thiel CS3.1 and Thiel CS2.2, or Thiel CS2.2 and Mirage M3)
Could somebody out there kindly explain to me, specifically,
why somebody prefers conventional speakers over ribbon ones, or vise versa. 
Conventional vs electrostatic, and electrostatic vs ribbon ?
For example, in clarity, stereo imaging, flat/no flat sound design, 
favoring one type of voice/instrument over another, frequency tendency
(midrange/base/etc), size and naturalness of soundstage, hall effect,
speed, transparency, left-right/back-forth imaging, type of music,
wow I could not think more... not to mention, demand to good power amp ? 

Emails to my account or this news board are greatly appreciated, since
these are two main questions that haunt me...
I'm sorry if this kind of question has already come up before.
I will do summary after I get a good number of responses.


Nursalim

Newsgroups: rec.audio.high-end
From: peterca@ento.csiro.au
Subject: Women and Hi Fi
Originator: tjk@csd4.csd.uwm.edu
Organization: University of Wisconsin - Milwaukee
Date: Thu, 10 Sep 1992 12:56:16 GMT

Derek writes with bits deleted,
>Have we learned any valuable lessons on the dangers of semi-permanent tweeks,
>boys and girls?
>Records and Armor All???
which leads me to wonder are there any girls out there tweaking (or even
reading this) or is it just us boys.  The women I know all seem to enjoy
quality reproduced sound and just as many women as men are knowledgable and
enthusiastic attenders of concerts.  I know more female rugby players than
female HiFi enthusiasts which must make this just about the most exclusive
special interest I can think of.  Why?  Hi Fi is  expensive and a luxury
with technical overtones.  Maybe having generally less secure finacial
prospects together with discouragement in matters technical makes women
doubly disadvantaged.  I won't presume to provide a feminist critique of
HiFi but maybe a female reader would care to comment if one exists.

----------------------------------------
Peter Campbell
C/O Div. Entomology, C.S.I.R.O.
Box 1700 Canberra A.C.T. 2601
Australia  (peterca@ento.csiro.au)
Ph.61-6-2464158 (w), 61-6-2516213 (h)
----------------------------------------


Newsgroups: rec.audio.high-end
From: wkb@cblph.att.com (William K Brummett)
Subject: Re: What is MDF?
Originator: tjk@csd4.csd.uwm.edu
Organization: AT&T
Distribution: usa
Date: Fri, 11 Sep 1992 17:40:47 GMT


    A follow-up to my orignial answer to "what is MDF?":

    The acronym does indeed stand for "medium density fiberboard".  Audio
    Concepts uses 49.3 pounds/cubic foot Willamitte MDF.  They claim to
    have used FFT analysis to determine this optimum density.  I claim that
    it's still just particle board.

    -- Keith

-- 
    | (614) 860-3187         Copyright (C) 1992, by       AT&T, Room 3B202 |
    | att!cblph!wkb  or,     W.K. Brummett and AT&T      6200 E. Broad St. |
    | wkb@cblph.att.com       All rights reserved.      Columbus, OH 43213 |
    `----------------------------------------------------------------------'

Newsgroups: rec.audio.high-end
From: John Stimson <jstimson@jarthur.Claremont.EDU>
Subject: Re: Maggie/Vandersteen Amp Matching
Originator: tjk@csd4.csd.uwm.edu
Organization: Harvey Mudd College, Claremont, CA 91711
Date: Wed, 9 Sep 1992 12:39:21 GMT
          8 Sep 92 18: 27 PDT


In response to a query about amp matching with Vandersteens:

Vandersteens (the 2Cs, at least) are very good about being drivable.
I have a Yamaha integrated amp which claims to only like 8 ohm loads.
I had a pair of Infinity Ref-3s, nominally 6 ohms (I measured them down to
around 4 at points) which the Yamaha absolutely hated - activated the
protection circuitry quite often at moderate levels.  The 2Cis I just got
are rated at 7 ohms nominal (4 ohms minimum), and the Yamaha is happy driving
them very loudly (past the point at which the amp starts to distort and I
back off).  If the 1Bs are in any way similar, I wouldn't worry about driving
them with an "8 ohm minimum" amp.
								John

Newsgroups: rec.audio.high-end
From: jas@proteon.com (John A. Shriver)
Subject: 12AX7 versus 12AX7A
Originator: tjk@csd4.csd.uwm.edu
Cc: rsd@sei.cmu.edu
Organization: University of Wisconsin - Milwaukee
Date: Thu, 10 Sep 1992 12:55:24 GMT

Moreover, most of the "low noise" tubes were for lower noise on AC
filaments.  No serious high end gear uses small signal tubes with AC
filaments, they have DC supplies, usually regulated.  (Power tubes do
want AC filaments to avoid hot spots.)  Thus, these distinctions are
less relevant these days.

Nowadays, get a pool of tubes, and select the phono input ones for low
noise by ear.
Newsgroups: rec.audio.high-end
Subject: Speaker builder
From: Marcio Chiaramonte <MJCHIARA%BRUSPVM.bitnet@UICVM.UIC.EDU>
Date: Tue, 8 Sep 1992 21:23:15 GMT
Organization: University of Wisconsin - Milwaukee
Originator: tjk@csd4.csd.uwm.edu

I am a Home Audio Builder and at a moment i decided to build one speaker for my
 Audio system, and don't have the idea about one good project who I can build.
I need one speaker compatible with my OTL, who have output power aproximately
60W @ 8ohms, and need one speaker who have this or more impendance.
In Brasil are dificult to take good material for build one speaker with quality
.  For other hand, after two weaks I going to Europe during one month for study
 and vacations and like to sel loudspeakers to build my new speaker.
Have you any sugestion???Whem is possible I take this components at low price??
?  Thaks   Marcio Chiaramonte
From: johno@sdd.hp.com (John Ongtooguk)
Newsgroups: rec.audio.high-end
Subject: Re: rec.audio.high-end is humorous
Date: 14 Sep 92 12:58:34 GMT
Organization: Hewlett-Packard, San Diego Division
Originator: tjk@csd4.csd.uwm.edu

In article <peter.4@ux1.cso>, peter@ux1.cso (Peter R. Tattam) writes:
|>          ..............  The people in this group that think audio is 
|> an art and not a science obviously don't know anything about the science.  
|> An amplifier isn't just 'painted' it is engineered using SCIENTIFIC 
|> principles.  

   Most consumer electronics are engineered per marketing and 
   accounting principles, which is why there is so much junk
   out there. An engineer would be inclined to say that there
   can't possibly be an audible difference between X and Y
   while using a scientific approach one would test for possible
   differences. Someone who cares about their product would also
   listen to it, and listen to customer opinions.

|>                                         ............. Somewhere someone 
|> told somebody that there was an electrical difference between silver and 
|> gold.  While this is measureable the amount of difference it would 
|> make by just plating the ends and contacts could not possibly be heard.

   Gold contacts usually consist of an alloy plated on top of nickel
   for wear resistance, while silver tends to have a chromate or
   rhodium overcoating for corrosion resistance. I don't know how
   different just the contacts would sound, but a consistent comment
   is that even with everything else being equal silver cables sound
   different than copper cables. 

   I think that good engineering is the basis of a good product, but
   it might be too soon to say that engineers know everything there is
   to know about audio products, or that we can purchase audio products 
   using only engineering data. 

   John Ongtooguk (johno@sdd.hp.com)
From: scott@psy.uwa.oz.au (Scott Fisher)
Newsgroups: rec.audio
Subject: Re: Very expensive cables
Date: 10 Sep 1992 02:43:11 GMT
Organization: The University of Westrn Australia
NNTP-Posting-Host: wapsy.psy.uwa.oz.au

MATGBB@LURE.LATROBE.EDU.AU (BYRNES,Graham) writes:

>So it is, Seth, to abuse someone without reading their post. ( I do it too.)
>Read the 2nd para.
>I said that the makers rep has to be able to HEAR the difference. That is,
>I ask only that there be ONE PERSON in the whole world who can reliably
>HEAR the difference.
>And remember that wine judges test blind: they don't see the labels before
>they taste, sunshine. 

This is why "cheap" wines often win competitions.  Good news for the consumer

>So is it outrageous to ask someone to hear a cable
>without seeing it?
>Also, MSA on wine DOES reveal differences.
>Graham B

Scott.
From: mbk@lyapunov.ucsd.edu (Matt Kennel)
Newsgroups: rec.audio
Subject: Re: Sony's CD advertising
Date: 15 Sep 1992 17:53:06 GMT
Organization: Institute For Nonlinear Science, UCSD
NNTP-Posting-Host: lyapunov.ucsd.edu
X-Newsreader: Tin 1.1 PL3

curt@oasys.dt.navy.mil (Curt Welch) writes:
: In rec.audio, mbk@lyapunov.ucsd.edu (Matt Kennel) writes:
: >And also, the tracks on MD's are allocated in a "filesystem", so that
: >you can rerecord over a previous track which had a different length
: >and not lose any music, or create any gaps.  No other consumer medium
: >has ever done this.
: 
: This is just too cool.  Where did you hear this?  Are you sure this is
: a feature of the MD?  I've read a lot of articles about the MD and I've
: never seen this discussed.  If this is true, then then DCC just got
: another nail in it's coffin.

Unfortunately, I can't remember for sure. It was written in the context of the
data compression scheme, though.   The fact that the hardware can read
bits off the disk faster than necessary for the audio I/O meant that 
with a buffer you can afford the time to re-seek after a bump without
disruption, and also to seek to the new section of a disk during a selection
if it was fragmented into multiple parts.

It sounded like that these were as important reasons to use data compression
as simply reducing the data requriement.

: This should also mean that players (at least some day) could easily
: delete/renumber/re-order tracks with little problem.

Of course.

: Curt Welch

--
-Matt Kennel  		mbk@inls1.ucsd.edu
-Institute for Nonlinear Science, University of California, San Diego
-*** AD: Archive for nonlinear dynamics papers & programs: FTP to
-***     lyapunov.ucsd.edu, username "anonymous".
Newsgroups: rec.audio
From: tlode@nyx.cs.du.edu (trygve lode)
Subject: Re: Off-center sound stage?
Organization: Nyx, Public Access Unix @ U. of Denver Math/CS dept.
Date: Tue, 8 Sep 92 07:43:09 GMT

In article <18hivfINNbec@agate.berkeley.edu> henken@ocf.berkeley.edu (Matthew J. Henken) writes:
>Hello all!  I'm hoping you can help me with a problem I'm experiencing and
>I've never even *heard* of before:  My soundstage is shifted to the left.
>
>That is, things seem to be in a proper relation to one another, but the whole
>works seems to be centered about a point much closer to the left speaker than
>the right speaker.

Actually, this sort of thing is quite common--one of the most likely causes
is the acoustics of the room near the speakers.  For example, if the
speakers are placed different distances from the side walls or one side
wall has very different sonic properties (more or less absorbtive, 
diffractive rather than reflective, etc.), this can cause precisely 
the effects you describe.  Do you have furniture arranged asymetrically
near the speakers (bookcases in particular) or a doorway near one speaker
and not the other?

Another possibility is that it may be a problem with the hardware itself;
try swapping the speakers and/or the left and right channels of the 
source and amplifier.  (It's also conceivable that it's a cable, so
you'll want to try swapping those as well.)

Newsgroups: rec.audio
From: shiv@bnr.ca (Shiv Naimpally)
Subject: Re: Hi-Fi VCRs
Reply-To: shiv@bnr.ca (Shiv Naimpally)
Organization: Bell-Northern Research Ltd.
Date: Mon, 14 Sep 92 19:01:49 GMT

A good cassette machine (3-head) with dolby C or dbx on metal tape
can do better than VHS HiFi. If you do use HiFi for music recording,
use a premium grade tape and SP speed (to avoid dropouts).
From: wayne@ultra.com (Wayne Hathaway)
Newsgroups: rec.audio
Subject: Re: Pro-Logic Recievers (STRAV1070/D1S/etc) Summary!
Keywords: pro logic surround receiver summary sony pioneer strav1070
Date: 14 Sep 92 16:00:08 GMT
Reply-To: wayne@ultra.com (Wayne Hathaway)
Organization: Ultra Network Technologies

I looked at the various Kenwoods myself recently, and was very
surprised to find that the lower models do *NOT* have S-Video
connections.  To me this is just too short-sighted, even though my
current VCR doesn't have S-Video either.

Anyway, I was very happy to find that the KR-V9030 *DOES* have S-Video
capability, as well as 130 watts per channel and just about every
other bell and whistle I could think of (including DSP).  And it
sounds *GREAT*!

And as for price, I got mine for $503 delivered.  I bought it from
Illinois Audio and it was delivered, with serial number intact, in a
little over a week.  I'd strongly recommend both the KR-V9030 and
Illinois Audio -- they're at 800-621-8042.

    Wayne Hathaway               domain: wayne@Ultra.COM
    Ultra Network Technologies     uucp: ...!ames!ultra!wayne
    101 Daggett Drive             phone: 408-922-0100 x132
    San Jose, CA 95134              FAX: 408-433-9287
 
Newsgroups: rec.audio
From: slee@eng.auburn.edu (Sanguk Lee)
Subject: MAY I HAVE PHONE NUMBERS OF MAIL ORDER AUDIO SHOP!!!
Reply-To: slee@eng.auburn.edu
Organization: Auburn University Engineering
Date: Mon, 7 Sep 1992 16:26:33 GMT
From: smee@bristol.ac.uk (Paul Smee)
Newsgroups: rec.audio
Subject: Mysterious hum
Date: 11 Sep 92 16:10:22 GMT
Reply-To: P.Smee@bristol.ac.uk (Paul Smee)
Organization: University of Bristol

OK, since we seem to be discussing hums today, I've got a mysterious one,
anyone got any ideas?  Description:

Power supply hum in my amp.  (Probably power supply, since it doesn't
come through the speakers.) Very low level, so it doesn't bother me.  I
can hear it while I'm over at the stack changing a record or CD, but
not once I've moved a few feet away.  (That's why it hasn't bothered me
much.)

The mysterious bit is that it only happens after about 10 at night.
(No, I don't know what time in the morning it stops, but by the time i
get up it's gone.  Latest I can speak for is 2AM, when it still hums.)
Nothing to do with how long it's been on.  If we've gone out for the
day, get back after 10, and I turn the thing on, it starts humming
instantly.  If it's an at-home day, and I turn things on when I get up,
it all stays dead quiet until 10 PM, when it starts to gently hum.

We don't have anything in the house on a timed circuit which cuts in or
out at that time.  It's not synchronised with the streetlight, or when
we decide to turn on the livingroom lamps, or anything else obvious.
Ghosts?  Should I be suing my power company? :-)

(Don't waste lots of time thinking about this, since it's not loud
enough to be a problem.  Just makes me curious, if you've got any top
of the head ideas...)

-- 
Paul Smee, Computing Service, University of Bristol, Bristol BS8 1UD, UK
 P.Smee@bristol.ac.uk - ..!uunet!uknet!bsmail!p.smee - Tel +44 272 303132
Newsgroups: rec.audio
From: zarthac@camelot.bradley.edu (Matthew Simmons)
Subject: Sony's CD advertising
Organization: Bradley University
Date:  6 Sep 92 20:06:57 GMT


Why is Sony advertising CD's as the greatest thing since sliced bread
(I've seen at least 5 ads in on hour on MTV) when they're just going
to introduce the MD and have to sell THAT as the latest and greatest.
Wouldn't it make more sense to not advertise the CD, but say something
like "coming soon, .... I suck at writing these things..." but
basically piquing public interest in the MD?

Newsgroups: rec.audio
From: drraymon@watdragon.uwaterloo.ca (Darrell Raymond)
Subject: Re: Jacked up CD prices again
Organization: University of Waterloo
Date: Tue, 15 Sep 1992 01:38:22 GMT

In article <JGJ.92Sep14160247@rcx1.ssd.csd.harris.com>, jgj@ssd.csd.harris.com (Jeff Jackson) writes:
> 
> > The price they were quoting seemed to be about $18.00.
> > What can we do?
> 
> Do away with our capitalist economy and adapt communism.

  Why, did the Soviet Union have cheaper CDs until just recently?  :-)

  My option: get a good tuner and save most of the money you would have
spent on CDs.

-Darrell.
Newsgroups: rec.audio
From: lindholm@ucs.ubc.ca (George Lindholm)
Subject: THD numbers question
Organization: University Computing Services, UBC, Canada
Date: Tue, 8 Sep 1992 23:12:50 GMT

Whats a good, bad, acceptable THD number(s) for an amplifier nowdays? Thanks

   George
-- 
George Lindholm                                  phone:    (604) 822-4375
University Computing Services, UBC               fax:      (604) 822-5116
6356 Agricultural Road, Vancouver, B.C., Canada  internet: lindholm@ucs.ubc.ca
V6T 1Z2                                          bitnet:   USERGNL@UBCMTSG