HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: kalel@cbnewsg.cb.att.com (peter.t.mcdermott)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.startrek.current
Subject: Troi's Mom-To Know Her Is To Hate Her
Keywords: Please Go Away
Date: 15 Apr 92 18:46:02 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: AT&T

Well, I'm what you would normally call a "lurker." But seeing as ST-TNG
is wasting another episode on Mrs. Roddenberry, I cannot restrain myself.
Before you flame, or not, let me say these words compromise my _opinions_
and don't get upset if you don't agree. Just counter-post!
I for years have held a great dislike for Mrs. Roddenberry's "acting"
abilities. Namely the problem being she has damn little acting ability.
She had a couple of moments in the old show where she reacted to Mr. Spock
in a manner that was I admit indicative of a star-crossed lover. But let
us face facts that anyone who would love Spock would have to be considered
star-crossed. At BEST, her acting abilities were minimal. Her first role
on the old show's pilot as the emotionless #1 was probably her best shot
at no one recognizing she _can't_ act! Now that Gene's gone, rest his soul,
she is living off of what I feel is at best described as "after-death 
nepotism" which frankly gives me the creeps. Now before anyone jumps to
her defense. let me say that as a human being she may be a damn fine person.
But if Gene hadn't created Star Trek, I'll bet you would never have laid
eyes on her in regards to acting work. I admit that I usually follow the
axiom of "There are no bad characters, just badly written ones." However,
when I see her arrogance as Troi's mom come across the screen. I do not feel
she is acting anymore. I believe that she has actually come over the years
to feel as though she is part of the reason for all the Star Trek success,
and is simply walking through the, ugh, yearly tip of the hat to TOS 
episode. Many might say that if you feel the arrogance she has succeeded in
her actress' charter. But I'm sorry, it won't wash. She can't act. She would
_NEVER_ be seen on _ANY_ show if Gene hadn't met with success. And if they
have to resort to this to continue making ST-TNG, I for one don't like it
one damn bit. So there. I've vented. Purged myself. Permanently threatened
my non-status on the net as a "lurker." But gosh I feel good. Later Y'all!

							Peter T. McDermott
						e-mail: attmail!kalel
P.S. No .sig. Just little ole' me!
From: v075q5fr@ubvmsb.cc.buffalo.edu (Scott J Gorcey)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.startrek.current
Subject: Re: Locarno = Kirk (Spoilers "First Duty"))
Date: 7 Apr 92 23:09:00 GMT
Organization: University at Buffalo
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41

In article <1992Apr7.182322.28548@dartvax.dartmouth.edu>, nathans@coos.dartmouth.edu (Nathan Shafer) writes...
>In article <1992Apr5.221926.12208@acsu.buffalo.edu> v075q5fr@ubvmsb.cc.buffalo.edu (Scott J Gorcey) writes:
>>Important Pieces of the Discussion After Spoiler:
>>     Is hiding on Vulcan for three months while being tried in absentia
>>     the act of a man willing to immediately face the music?
> 
>    No, it's the act of a man who is waiting for his friend to recuperate,
>and knows (wisely) that once things at home run their course, and tempers
>cool, then the music he will face will likely be just and fair music, and
>not an "Off with 'is 'head!" reaction.

     Why is Kirk allowed the breadth of discretion to ^think^ and ^plan^
     when he is going to follow Starfleet orders and Federation subpoenas
     and Locarno is not?

>>     And anyway, you are overlooking the point: Locarno is Kirk ^as a
>>     cadet,^  as a KID.  I sincerely doubt Kirk was hatched a fully formed
>>     Captain Horatio Hornblower.  Let's remember who cheated on the 
>>     Kobyashi Maru simulation.  
> 
>    Cheating on the Kobyashi Maru simulation was not likely to get anyone
>even hurt, much less killed. Therefore, it is a totally different issue.

     Beyond the death involved, cheating on an incredibly important
     Academy exit-exam is a much bigger breach of regulations than
          performing an against-the-rules maneuver.  The death involved 



>>     In the end, Locarno lived up to his stated code of honor - put the
>>     team first, no matter what - by taking all the blame and being the
>>     only one expelled.  If you go back and look at the episode, you'll
>>     see that Locarno's every act was an attempt to safeguard THE TEAM
>>     as a whole.  
> 
>    Except for the one who got killed, eh?
> 
>    What Locarno did at the end was not some act of grand heroism...it was
>only the decent thing to do, what I would expect of anyone in the situation.
>Look at it this way: the truth was out, and he (Locarno), as team commander,
>was going to get canned one way or the other. There was no way out of that.
>So taking all the blame himself and trying to save the butts of the rest of
>the group was not an act which held any risk for him.
> 
>Nathan Shafer
>Dartmouth College, NH

          ^Hot Damn, That Pie Was Good!^
                     Common Phrases Heard at
                     RR Diner #32.

          ^Scott Gorcey, v075q5fr@ubvmsb.cc.buffalo.edu^
Newsgroups: rec.arts.startrek.current
From: demillo@juliet.ll.mit.edu ( Robert DeMillo )
Subject: Re: Comment on Wesley's room (First Duty)
Organization: M.I.T. Lincoln Lab - Group 43
	<DEMILLO.92Apr6115717@egeus.juliet.ll.mit.edu>
	<8APR199217124231@reg.triumf.ca>
Date: 13 Apr 92 17:44:16

In article <8APR199217124231@reg.triumf.ca> music@reg.triumf.ca (FRED W. BACH) writes:
> In article <DEMILLO.92Apr6115717@egeus.juliet.ll.mit.edu>, demillo@juliet.ll.mit.edu ( Robert DeMillo ) writes...
> >In article <1992Apr6.150336.1734@osc.edu> phil@stupid.cgrg.ohio-state.EDU (Phil Ritzenthaler) writes:
> > 
> >> In article <1992Apr6.074215.12501@usenet.ins.cwru.edu>, bn981@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Ryan Mathews) writes:
> >> |> 
> >> |> The door had a doorknob, and it swung open.  Awfully low tech, dontcha
> >> |> think?
> >> |> 
> >> |> Either there's some point to this, or the average college dormitory in
> >> |> the 24th century is as old and unmodern as the ones today.  :-)
> > 
> >I thought this was great and made a lot of sense for exactly the 
> >reason the previous poster listed. Most of the dorms in older colleges
> >that I have been to are always about 100 years out of date...sometimes
> >more in the case of some of the 200+ year old ivy colleges. I thought
> >it was a great touch...
> > 

>  I must agree.  I think young people need to live a little (during their
> impressionable period) in some kind of atmosphere which puts them IN TOUCH
> with their history...

Sorry, I didn't mean anything quite this prosumptious. What I meant
was that it was a great touch because a school *never* spends any money
on student living conditions unless it absolutely has to. ;) (You know,
death by falling through rotted floors, that kind of thing.

So, to sum up:
 *yes* I do agree that it was a great touch to put "older" features
 in the academy dorms
 *no* I don't think it was done to "put students IN TOCUH with their
      history." I'd rather think the academy did it because they
      didn't pay attention to the students living conditions....


--
 - Rob DeMillo			| Internet: 	 demillo@juliet.ll.mit.edu
   MIT Lincoln Lab 		| Also Internet: rjd@brown.cs.edu
   Weather Sensing - Group 43	| Reality: 617-981-2105 (office)

"Operation Goofy now in effect!"
	--- Tom Servo, "Gamera vs. Gaos," Mystery Science Theater 3000

Newsgroups: rec.arts.startrek.current
From: haller@schaefer.math.wisc.edu (Kirk Haller)
Subject: Re: What did Picard do? (minor TFD spoiler)
Organization: Univ. of Wisconsin Dept. of Mathematics
Date: Mon, 6 Apr 92 00:34:33 GMT

rvc40592@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (Bob Cadman) writes:

>I hope this works:







>Something has really been annoying me about this episode:  What exactly
>is it that Picard did when he was at the academy?  I'm referring to the
>conversation where he thanked Boothby.

>Another thing ... did you notice how when Geordi told Picard about the
>valve (or whatever) being opened, Picard immediately knew exactly what
>it was they were doing?  Isn't that just a wee bit to convenient?  (I
>was also wondering if anyone remembered how long they said that 
>maneuver had been banned at the academy ... 100 years?)

>And does anyone think there could be a connection between these two
>questions?   :-)



We had the same observation and question when we watched the show. After
rewatching a couple of scenes, I am of the opinion that Picard had done
the exact same thing (or something very similar). The expression of
extreme interest when Picard sees the new formation, the quickness that
he guesses the true nature of the accident, and his comments to Wes all
seem to support this conclusion.

Kirk.

haller@math.wisc.edu
From: 0juan_e@spcvxb.spc.edu
Newsgroups: rec.arts.startrek.current
Subject: Need STNG Info -Please Help.
Date: 9 Apr 92 00:23:16 GMT
Organization: St. Peter's College, US


To any Trekker within a lightyear of this post:

    S.O.S.T.  Need information concerning Deep Space 9.
I have heard rumors of this show and cancellation of STNG, please give
confirmations on this.  Would greatly appreciate information on this
subject in my E-mail -just REPLY to this post to invoke mailer, if you're
new to InterNet.

                             Thanks,
                              Ned
                              St. Peter's College
Organization: Wherever it lands, it stays 'til I need it
Date: Tuesday, 14 Apr 1992 06:51:36 EDT
From: Kurt Ludwick <KEL111@psuvm.psu.edu>
Newsgroups: rec.arts.startrek.current
Subject: Re: Please Help!!! Need info for a project
 <29E60CE3.5588@noiro.acs.uci.edu>

In article <29E60CE3.5588@noiro.acs.uci.edu>, cortese@hepxvt.ps.uci.edu (Janis
Maria Cortese) says:

>Translation:  I've waited until the very end of the semester to start in
>on this project that I've known about for the last 14 weeks, and I don't
>feel like going to Pattee to Look Stuff Up.  Could you please research
>everything for me, and highlight the relevant parts?  I'll make sure you
>don't get credit.

Interesting you feel this way.  So how is the research I'm doing here, in
addition to the research I will do at the library (w/ *sources* to which I
have been referred) different from any other research I could do?  Oh, well,
if someone helps me out and really, -really- wants his name mentioned in my
speech, then... that person needs a life. :-)

------------
Kurt Ludwick
------------
Newsgroups: rec.arts.startrek.current
From: gberigan@cse.unl.edu (Life...)
Subject: Re: Boothby, Deues Ex Machina, "The First Duty"
Organization: Ursa Minor Beta, 402-476-8047 @ 2400
Date: Sat, 11 Apr 1992 08:41:31 GMT

andy@ccwf.cc.utexas.edu (Andrew Hackard) writes:
>v075q5fr@ubvmsd.cc.buffalo.edu (Scott J Gorcey) writes:

[Control-L's replaced with Caret-L's, point made later.]

>>_Spoilers_(maybe):^L
>[deleted, cuz I haven't seen it yet]

>Scott, the ctrl-L has to be at the beginning of the line, like this:

>^L

>Putting it later in the line (like here ^L) doesn't do a damn thing.

Depends on the newsreader.  I know the program rn that I used to use
acted that way, but this copy of nn will pause on a control-L no matter
where it is located.  Gets damned annoying when people put them in the
middle of a line, too.

Still, it is best that it be in the 0th column, to retain compatibility
with the ancients.

>BTW, that's _Spoilers_(definitely).  Lots of people, me included, haven't seen
>TFD yet--in fact, if you'd keep the spoiler prot on for another week or so,
>you'll even catch through the first reruns.  Go check out Matt Gertz's
>netiquette guide for proper spoiler etiquette.

And the fact that 8 days was sufficient for ol' rec.arts.startrek.  If
you can't be bothered to look at a subject line before you leap into the
body of the text, then you have no grounds to complain, if it clearly
stated episode name and SPOILERS.  After 8 days, posters are no-longer
_obligated_ to use ctrl-L or a bunch of blank lines, and those who
followup are within their rights to delete them.

Now, if I read this case correctly, the article referenced did not state
the presence of spoilers in the subject line, but a valid attempt was
made at protection in the body.  Thus, I am glad to see that the
response...

>was only a test.  Had this been an actual flame... ;)

Still, I just felt clarification was warrented. :-)

>--Andrew Hackard                    Disclaimer: As usual, I wasn't consulted.
>  andy@ccwf.cc.utexas.edu           

--
  ///   ____   \\\       | CAUTION:
  | |/ /    \ \| |       | Avoid eye contact.  In case of contact, flush
   \\_|\____/|_//        | mind for 15 minutes.  See a psychiatrist if
       \_)\\/            | irritation persists.  Not to be taken
gberigan `-' cse.unl.edu | seriously.  Keep out of sight of children.
Newsgroups: rec.arts.startrek.current
From: tlynch@cco.caltech.edu (Timothy W. Lynch)
Subject: More on the Locarno/Kirk issue (was Re: (Spoilers First Duty))
Organization: California Institute of Technology, Pasadena
Distribution: usa
Date: Thu, 9 Apr 1992 17:25:18 GMT

goodwin@orionsci.uucp (Ben Goodwin) writes:

>First duty spoilers: Assumptions!


>Let's see, two things I thinkg:

>1) All of you who say Locarno was OK are making a *big* assumption.
>   You assume that the accident was Josh's fault.  

I don't think anybody here is saying the accident was Josh's fault.  I also
don't think most people are saying "Locarno was a great guy".  I think they're
disputing the "Locarno was scum through and through" interpretation.  

And I think your casting of it in terms of "all of you who..." is divisive.

>   There was no real evidence to support that Josh caused the crash.
>   NONE!

Agreed.  Who is saying otherwise?

>2) Kirk=Locarno theory: BS!

Few if any people are saying the parallel is perfect.  I believe it's 
strong, given certain parameters.

>   You are all basing your theories on no data.  We have almost
>   no data on Kirk's days at the academy.  As a matter of fact the Kobyashi
>   Maru is the only reference I've seen to Kirk's Academy Days.

There are others, but the KM is the most vivid.  And as I and others
have been arguing, Kirk's reactions to the Kobayashi Maru test display a 
very basic immaturity and character flaw, both of which were used expertly
in ST2.  Being unwilling to face a scenario that exists and is realistic is
not a bright thing to do--although it's a very human thing to do.

>Therefore I wish to present an alternate equation! (Drum roll ...)

Why?  Because you're upset at the Kirk concept?

>  Locarno = Picard (at academy)

>No more far fetched than the other equation.  We even have evidence to
>support theory.

And some against.  Locarno was referred to as "coach, surrogate father and
best friend all in one".  He had some form of innate charisma that drew people
to him no matter how bizarre his ideas were.

I don't think you'll find a great many people who find that those traits 
describe Picard in the least.

>a) Picard was stabbed through the heart by some alien while a cadet
>   because he was a hotblooded youth, reckless in a word.

Ahem.  Ensign, not cadet.  A bit later in life.

>b) Picard was thanking Boothby (overplayed IMHO) for getting him out of
>   trouble when he was a cadet.

Yeah, and most cadets got in some form of trouble at the Academy.  It seems to
be a fact of life.

>Sounds like a real troublemaker to me.  Remember the Picard of today is
>(so some have said) approximately 60 years old.  He was probably a wild
>freewheeling seat of the pants Captain in his younger days (Just like Kirk)
>but he has matured.

Fine.  No one's arguing Picard was free of rough spots in his Academy days.
But exactly how this implies that Kirk was free of them and that the parallel
is "BS", to use your phrase, is far from clear.

Ben, I think you're overreacting.  You seem to think that if I demonstrate a 
flaw in X, that I intensely dislike X.  Not so; most people realize perfection
is unrealistic.

Tim Lynch
From: rdshepherd@lescsse.jsc.nasa.gov (Rick Shepherd)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.startrek.current
Subject: Re: Deckyon field
Date: 6 Apr 92 15:24:35 GMT
Article-I.D.: node_e88.rdshepherd.702573875
Organization: Planning Research Corporation

In <mXRRiB3w164w@berry.Cary.NC.US> pat@berry.Cary.NC.US (Pat Berry) writes:

>rdshepherd@lescsse.jsc.nasa.gov (Rickey D.) writes:

>> Try the new spreadsheet, Lucutus 1-2-3, where no matter what you enter, it ge
>> assimilated, but is still irrelevant! By Cyberdine, Inc. The makers of Skynet
>> 
>> Rick D. Shepherd // Internet: shepherd@taronga.com

>The company that developed SkyNet is Cyberdyne (spelled with a Y).
>CyberDine, Inc. is the Starfleet subcontractor that produced the
>computer-controlled food replicators for Galaxy Class starships.

>:-)
Aha, so that it the tie in in "How much for Just the Planet?", where
the food replicators were causing so much havoc.  (Electric blue
orange juice for starters) 8-)

>By the way, Rickey D., are you related to Mickey D., the villain of
>Commander Riker's favorite novel (NOT!), "Hotel Royale" by Todd
>Matthews?  If so, I just want to warn you that this newsgroup's charter
>prohibits fictional characters from posting articles.

No, absolutely no relation, I am a real person.  Just ask me to quote
any work of fiction, er, no, ask me to name any author's bio.., no,
I mean ask me to prepare any essay.., er, oops.   *POOF!*
AAAIIIEEE!  It's a thesaurus!!
 
>Pat Berry                    pat@berry.Cary.NC.US

Rickey D.

--
Try the new spreadsheet, Lucutus 1-2-3, where no matter what you enter, it gets
assimilated, but is still irrelevant! By Cyberdine, Inc. The makers of Skynet!

Rick D. Shepherd // Internet: shepherd@taronga.com
From: wilde@husc8.harvard.edu (Robert Wilde)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.startrek.current
Subject: Re: Picard remembers Starburst (minor TFD spoiler)
Date: 9 Apr 92 15:40:42 GMT
Article-I.D.: husc3.1992Apr9.114043.10877
Organization: Harvard University Science Center

In article <aelman.702774486@Xenon.Stanford.EDU> aelman@Xenon.Stanford.EDU (Adam Elman) writes:
>lllowen@netcom.com (lllowen) writes:
>
>>In article <aelman.702602908@Xenon.Stanford.EDU> 
>>aelman@Xenon.Stanford.EDU (Adam Elman) writes:
>>>
>>>It seems perfectly reasonable to me that someone moderately familiar
>>>with the methods and history of the flight team at Starfleet Academy
>>>-- which it is perfectly reasonable to assume that Picard was --
>>>should remember a routine that spectacular with so many cues.  
>
>>I would think that if that were the case, the Superintendent would have
>>thought of that during the hearing.  I am not arguing your point, because
>>I do agree that it might be a SF legend, but the hearing committee should
>>have figured out that's what they were attempting IF it were a "legend."
>
>>-Lon   (lllowen@netcom.com)
>
>Ah, but they did not have the information about the coolant interlock
>during that testimony.  Geordi and Data found the information --
>Picard was the first and perhaps only person they told.
>
>Adam Elman
>aelman@cs.stanford.edu

It's reasonable to assume Starfleet Academy could recover the same data from
Wesley's flight recorder.  In that case, supposing the stunt were part of a
"legend," the Superintendent probably knew what Nova squad was trying to do.
Even with this knowledge, though, just like Picard she has no proof.  At the
end of the inquiry she does say something to the effect that she doesn't
believe them, maybe she was waiting for someone to step forward and if nobody
did she would make their remaining time at the Academy difficult.
Bob
Newsgroups: rec.arts.startrek.current
From: goodwin@orionsci (Ben Goodwin)
Subject: Re: Boothby, Deues Ex Machina, "The First Duty"
Reply-To: goodwin@orionsci.UUCP (Ben Goodwin)
Organization: Orion Scientific, Inc.
Date: Mon, 06 Apr 1992 21:13:50 GMT

In article <1992Apr3.200229.24037@CSD-NewsHost.Stanford.EDU> kanamori@Xenon.Stanford.EDU (Atsushi Kanamori) writes:
>
>Spoilers
>

>>Lemme get this straight.  You went non-linear over a couple of neon
>>uniforms, but the disappearance of (arguably) the most important person
>>in Picard's youth wouldn't have phased you?
>
>That he's important to Picard's *youth* doesn't make it important to *me*.
>How they'd handle the challenge of making those "neon uniforms" look at 
>home in a TNG episode *was* something to look forward to (though not 
>something to go "non-linear" over either.) I don't see what the fuss over 
>Boothby was about.

Actually, considering how old Picard is and how old Boothby was when
Picard was in the academy, I expected him to be dead, or dying when
Jean Luc arrived.

Boothby: "Jean-Luc, Jean-Luc, use the force"
Picard: "Yes Master.  I shall."

Oops, wrong show. :)
-- 
============================================================================
| uunet!orionsci!goodwin        | you with your hair that's always combed,
| Ben Goodwin                   | your suit is always white, your car is
| Washington DC (703) 524-0504  | always clean.  You I hate!!! -Great Race
============================================================================
Newsgroups: rec.arts.startrek.current
From: barry@mauser.quotron.com (Barry Geipel)
Subject: Re: Why did the Glass Break! Cause and Effect
Organization: Quotron Systems, Inc.
Date: Thu, 16 Apr 1992 13:42:24 GMT

>On board the NCC-1701-D?  No, I can't say that I ever did.  How about
>you?  Can you name one episode of ST:TNG in which an anti-grav unit is
>used, or even mentioned?

Do't know the name of the episode right off the top of my head, but I
could have sworn that Barkley ( Brocolli :-) ) was fixing one in the
first episode that he was on...

Barry Geipel - barry@quotron.com

Newsgroups: rec.arts.startrek.current