HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: nathan@laplace.biology.yale.edu (Nathan F. Janette)
Subject: Re: journalistic integrity
Reply-To: nathan@laplace.biology.yale.edu
Organization: Yale University, Department of Computer Science, New Haven, CT
Distribution: na
Date: Thu, 13 Aug 1992 19:35:45 GMT

In article <833@rtbrain.rightbrain.com> glenn@rightbrain.com (Glenn Reid)  
writes:
> Kristin Dyer writes
> > John Robison writes
> > Reviews are written to get advertisers (and perhaps inform the  
> > readers). 
> >         
> > you have picked the number one way to infuriate a journalist.
> 
> > reviews are *not* written to get advertisers, much to our ad sales reps  
> > chagrin.
> 
> As a major advertiser in NeXTWORLD, I definitely have to side with
> Ms. Dyer.  We've gotten some very mixed reviews of our products, and
> we don't even get to see the reviews before the editions come out.
> Sometimes we're not even told ahead of time that the reviews are being
> written, or what the schedule might be.

I notice that ads are often located on pages near articles reviewing
the product.  I wonder if other magazines do offer companies the
opportunity to place such ads near the review pages.

--
Nathan Janette		"I'm a NeXTstep man,
Dept MB&B, Yale Univ	 I'm a NeXTcube guy"
New Haven, CT
nathan@laplace.biology.yale.edu (NeXT)

Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.advocacy
From: kocks@jessica.stanford.edu (Peter Kocks)
Subject: Re:  NeXT's, Amiga's, PC's, MAC'S, (was Re: Question #2 "Are Macintosh Users Really Happy?")
Organization: Academic Information Resources
Date: Wed, 12 Aug 92 22:52:19 GMT

In article <dillon.0l6j@overload.Berkeley.CA.US> dillon@overload.Berkeley.CA.US (Matthew Dillon) writes:
>In article <1992Aug9.134307.22108@corndog.id.com> walters@id.com (Chris Walters) writes:
>>In article <dillon.0kwu@overload.Berkeley.CA.US>
>>dillon@overload.Berkeley.CA.US (Matthew Dillon) writes:
>>While
>
>    As an example of general consumer goods, you can count the number of
>    word processors available on the NeXT on one hand, while other
>    platforms have a multitude (DOZENS) of word processors to choose from.
>    It simply isn't possible for those few word processors on the NeXT to
>    fit everyone's needs and much of the potential user market is lost.
>    While the two software packages enjoy a large market share due to lack
>    of competition, the NeXT machine itself suffers greatly because the
>    lack of choice causes many people to simply not consider the NeXT
>    at all.

A similar argument was used to argue against the Mac in 1985.  I.e.
"Ok. So it's neat, but you don't have the application base of DOS."
Well, they were wrong.  And as NeXT becomes more and more object
oriented (for the general user), everyone will have an os that tries
to look like a NeXT does now.  Ciaro (MS) will try to do the same, but
it will be so buggy and require so much ram (compared to Windows 3.1)
that no one will use it.  

Of course, you do pay for the NeXT.  Just like you paid more for the
Mac in 1985.

--Peter Kocks
  kocks@chemistry.stanford.edu
Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.advocacy
Subject: Re: NRW prototype demo?
From: eer1@midway.uchicago.edu(Paul Woods)
Date: Mon, 17 Aug 1992 14:30:05 GMT
Reply-To: eer1@midway.uchicago.edu
Organization: University of Chicago Computing Organizations

> ALSO: Beyond 2000 (pereinal whiz-bang science TV show down here) had a  
special
> on computer technology this week. I caught the last bit, and NeXT was  
plastered
> all over it.


We get it up here too (on cable)







____________________________________
	Paul R. Woods
     University of Chicago
Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.advocacy
From: shawn@monitor.com
Subject: Re: software ports to NeXT (was Re: Attitudes: NeXT users and Sun users)
Reply-To: shawn@monitor.com
Organization: Monitor Company / IE
Date: Wed, 12 Aug 1992 17:06:19 GMT

>Annard Brouwer writes
>>dillon@overload.Berkeley.CA.US (Matthew Dillon) writes:
[ stuff about porting apps from pc to NeXT ]

While we would all prefer to have the NeXT 'best of breed' apps that each  
software concern could pump out, NeXT and the NeXT community need to  
understand that the lack of software is HURTING NeXT.  I think that what  
you bring up here is partly a chicken-and-egg problem:  no software, no  
buyers, no impetus to write 'best of breed' apps.  However, this isn't my  
point.

Look around at the software vendors out there.  Just about everyone is  
supporting multi-platform software.  I always hear this "well the first  
ports of PC software to Mac were crap, so DON'T PORT!" complaint.....

1st:  PC software itself was mostly crap in '84 '85.  
2nd:  Mac software was not too far from crap in '84 '85 as well.  

      Do the math crap + crap = ?????

3rd:  People hadn't really thought about what was involved in doing a port  
-- the PC was the first mass-market, high-volume, truly-successful device  
of its kind --- so of course the ports from it weren't stellar.  However  
people now have a better understanding of porting (not perfect, but  
better).

4th:  Adobe, WordPerfect, Wingz, Frame, and others have done admirable, if  
not laudable, jobs porting their software from other platforms -- these  
ports are not as bad as the oft-compared PC-to-Mac ports of years gone by.

5th:  Yes, you're correct that these ports will not fully exploit the  
wonders of NeXTSTEP, which is unfrotunate, but see the chicken-and-egg  
section above, and see the competition section below :-)

6th:  NeXT is NOT doing very well in the workstation competition.  The  
poop is that their sales figures for Q1 and Q2 (calendar) were far far  
below expectations (one item I heard used the words 'horrid' and  
'abysmal')

NeXT has a lot of problems and issues it needs to confront and attack  
intelligently.  Lack of software is, unfortunately, just one of many.  

Don't scare off potential 'porters', and don't urge NeXT to not support  
those people -- NeXT needs the help, the community needs the apps, and the  
vendors (if things work out right) would enjoy the revenue.  

Remember too that competition is the purest form of market cleansing.   
When Virtuoso is released (RSN) it's going to clobber Adobe, and force  
them to get their app up to par; Mesa has been released and upped the ante  
for Wingz; PasteUp will force Frame's hand......

Shawn Broderick
shawn@monitor.com




Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.advocacy
From: david@postman.gr.osf.org (David George)
Subject: Re: Byte: Is Unix Dead ?
Organization: OSF RI Grenoble
Date: Thu, 20 Aug 1992 13:09:45 GMT

In article <1992Aug19.225125.13807@resonex.com>, zenon@resonex.com (Zenon Fortuna) writes:

|>      "The NeXT computer, though not a best-seller, has proved that the 
|>	concept of invisible Unix is a viable one and that graphical
|>	workstations can be safely placed on the desks of general users."
|>	(according to Tevanian it is the only way to "get up to the millions of
|>	units")

Which NeXT are a long way off... however the other example, OSF Motif is a lot lot closer to this figure and is nowhere near so seamless as NeXTStep.  DOS is another example of a million seller which essentially presents nothing more than a shell (okay, who runs DOS nowadays ?  quite a few people according to Microsoft.)

Presumably NT's Microkernel technology will give them the edge with porting to other architectures, which was, of course Unix's strong suit.  Interesting also to note that some of Avie's fellow Mach pioneers are now at Microsoft.

David.
Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.advocacy
From: thf@zelator.in-berlin.de (Thomas Funke)
Subject: Re: Byte: Is Unix Dead ?
Reply-To: thf@zelator.in-berlin.de (Thomas Funke)
Organization: NNU Corp. - NeXT is Not UN*X
Date: Sat, 22 Aug 1992 11:10:57 GMT

In article <1992Aug21.173027.8004@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu>  
mitroo@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (Varun Mitroo) writes:
> >>Otherwise, who would ever have bought IBM RS/6000s?
> >
> >Got me, man.. Rotten performance for most applications, lousy operating
> >system, slow I/O (SCSI-1), and lack of a multiprocessing model.
> 
> I beg to differ.  They offer MUCH better performance than many other
> workstations in many important aspects.  From my experiences, I have  
found
> the hard disk to be much faster than NeXT.  The really big win is with  
the
> compilers.  IBM has spent a lot of effort, and it shows.  Compiles are  
VERY
> fast, and the executables are very small in size.  Even things like unix
> compress runs at incredible speed.
> 

Can't agree. Running the same compilations on NeXT and a RS6000/320h, the  
NeXT is about 20-30 % faster, even if it has a slower CPU. And RS6000  
executables are VERY big compared to NeXT. Because RS6000 are paging all  
the time with 16 MB, you have to buy 32 MB to make them usable. It's not a  
very advanced system compared to NeXT, but has better security at least.  
And number-crunching should be better too. But not more....


-- 
------------------------------------------------------------------
Thomas Funke  ** E-mail: thf@zelator.in-berlin.de
NeXT-Developer * Unix-Consultant
------------------------------------------------------------------
Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.advocacy
Subject: correction->Re: Byte Unix Dead
From: mneideng@thidwick.acs.calpoly.edu (Mark Neidengard)
Date: Thu, 20 Aug 1992 16:07:13 GMT
Organization: Academic Computing Services, Cal Poly San Luis Obispo

oops.....that should have read...
"...the fundamental lack of THE power that X users have come to take for
granted."                   ^^^

aigh.

Mark Neidengard
From: dhg@sinix.UUCP (David Griffith)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.advocacy
Subject: Re: Poll results Re: "NeXT Developer Marketing Programs"  : -)
Date: 21 Aug 92 11:19:19 GMT
Organization: Primitive Software Ltd.

In article <845@rtbrain.rightbrain.com> glenn@rightbrain.com writes:
>
>My own opinion is that we're collectively reaching critical mass in the
>third-party software arena, and when we reach it, the world is going to
>renew its interest in the NeXT as a high-end Mac/PC, and will surprise
>NeXT with strong sales that have nothing to do with custom applications.
>Expect NeXT to then revise its marketing strategy again to once again
>encompass dealers, end users, Mac and PC owners.  NeXTstep 486 will also
>help enormously.
>

NeXTStep 486 could and should have been the thing to save NeXT, but it 
probably won't succeed for two reasons: it'll be too late and too expensive.

But I think you're right about the critical mass thing. And it's not just
a critical mass of just any old applications, the crucial thing is that
these will be applications of high quality. They will utilize the features
of NeXTStep 3.0 to the full. The greater integration and inter-operability
will pay dividends. (Make sure you provide cut and paste of RTF!). People
may no longer perceive a _need_ for the big apps that don't fit in - WP etc.

Dave Griffiths
From: toon@moene.indiv.nluug.nl (Toon Moene)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.advocacy
Subject: Re: Question #2 "Are Macintosh Users Really Happy?"
Date: 14 Aug 92 20:59:27 GMT
Organization: Moene Computational Physics, Amsterdam, The Netherlands

In article <1992Aug12.212216.13347@csi.on.ca> richard@csi.on.ca (Richard  
Martin) writes:
> In article <1992Aug11.004009.10542@leland.Stanford.EDU>  
kocks@jessica.stanford.edu (Peter Kocks) writes:
> >In article <1992Aug6.143640.17193@ms.uky.edu> borders@ms.uky.edu  
(Johnny Borders) writes:
> >a lowly Mac Classic with a 68000
> >which came out in what, 1980, can do it in half the time.
> >--Peter Kocks
> >  kocks@chemistry.stanford.edu

> I _think_ that the first Macs came out in 1984.
> There was a really big ad campaign about breaking
> free of Big Brother (IBM) etc.  I was 8.  I don't
> know why I would remember, and not you.
> Richard.

My God, am I old already - from my '84 pocket agenda, in Dutch:
Dinsdag 24 januari: 's middags announcement Macintosh, Apple.
At that time I worked for the Dutch PTT (100,000 employees); clearly Apple  
thought it to be an interesting market - they sent us a LISA in 1983 and  
several tickets for this announcement ...

--
Toon Moene (toon@moene.indiv.nluug.nl)
Kantershof 269, 1104 GN  Amsterdam, The Netherlands
Tel.: + 31 20 6982029; Fax: + 31 20 6003411
No Disclaimers; a NeXT at home protects against this occupational hazard.
From: shanega@athena.mit.edu (Shane G. Artis)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.advocacy
Subject: Re: political propaganda in tag lines
Date: 14 Aug 92 15:45:26 GMT
Organization: Massachusetts Institute of Technology

In article <1992Aug13.211433.18234@leland.Stanford.EDU> m@crito (M Carling) writes:
>
>That was the argument put forth by Herman Goering at the Nuernberg  
>tribunals in defense of the atrocities: that the socialists had violated  
>no law. But law is not limited to that which is made by man. Such man-made  
>law is called positive law. Natural law, on the other hand (which  
>proscribes killing the innocent), is the basis of the Declaration of  
>Independence, the abolition of slavery, and the Nuernberg tribunals, and  
>is, ultimately, the only intellectual foundation on which human freedom  
>rests.
>
>M Carling
>--
>Save a child, shoot a drug dealer.
>Save a thousand, shoot an abortionist.

Take if OFF-line!  I have no interest in your abortion viewpoint, or in the
views of those who rose to the bait of your deliberately inflammatory .sig.

Shane
From: m@crito.stanford.edu (M Carling)
Subject: Re: bang contact
Organization: DSO, Stanford University
Date: Thu, 20 Aug 92 21:11:12 GMT

In article <20858@optima.cs.arizona.edu> kline@cs.arizona.edu (Nick Kline)  
writes:
> About contacting bang. I sent mail to info@bang.org about 6 days ago
> and haven't gotten any response.  I'd like to join but I can't get any
> info.  Could some bang member tell me how to contact them?

I'm surprised to read that that didn't work. To join BANG, send $35 for a  
one year membership to:

BANG
P.O. Box 1731
Palo Alto, CA 94302

Include your name, address, phone, email, etc.

M Carling
Director, Bay Area NeXT Group
--
I believe George Bush, Anita Hill, and Pinocchio.
Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.advocacy
From: randy@appsoft.com (Randy Adams)
Subject: Re: software ports to NeXT (was Re: Attitudes: NeXT users and Sun users)
Organization: Appsoft, Inc.
Date: Mon, 17 Aug 1992 05:54:04 GMT

Keywords: Appsoft Pages RightBrain Lighthouse
Reply-To: randy@appsoft.com
Distribution: world

In article <1992Aug13.174553.399@prim> prim!dave@germany.eu.net (Dave  
Griffiths) writes:
> And is it just my imagination, or has there been a freeze on upgrades or new
> ports of the "big" applications to the NeXT? I have a feeling they're
> standing back to see if NeXT survive. Improv, WordPerfect, Wingz, FrameMaker
> etc were all ported to the NeXT quite a while ago. Since then, no upgrades  
and
> no other big ports to join them. (The only exception possibly being 
> Illustrator, but then Adobe, through the DSP connection, have more interest 
> than most).

You are right.  The larger software companies are no longer investing money in  
the NeXT platform.  The market hasn't materialized fast enough for them and  
they are waiting to see what happens with NS 486.  

In the meantime, small companies are still investing.  Appsoft has invested  
(spent) over $1,000,000 so far to develop a line of NeXT-only products which we  
will be introducing later this year.  

We most recently bought the rights to PowerStep, the NeXT only spreadsheet  
developed by Ashton-Tate and later acquired by Borland. Ashton-Tate probably  
spent in excess of $2,000,000 to develop this program but they never got to  
ship it.  We have had the code in-house since June and we are reworking it to  
be the best spreadsheet on the platform - the 3D graphics are stunning and the  
macro language is incredibly robust.  We will release a fully functional beta  
on the archives next week.  

We also have 5 new products under development in addition to WriteNow, Draw and  
Image (our new Photo Retouching/ Image processing product which will be  
released in early October).  We have more than 20 NeXT programmers under  
contract or hired as full time employees to develop application software and 15  
other people in sales, marketing and support -- all for NeXTSTEP !

You don't have to be a BIG company to do great software.  Adobe Illustrator was  
initially developed by ONE person, PhotoShop by TWO people.  

The truly great products for NeXTSTEP will not be developed by BIG companies  
but small ones like Lighthouse, RightBrain, Pages and Appsoft who despite the  
odds, contrary to the wisdom of the Software Giants and at great financial  
risk, continue to believe in the viability of this platform.

randy adams
Appsoft, Inc.

randy@appsoft.com
Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.advocacy
From: samurai@homer.cs.mcgill.ca (Darcy Brockbank)
Subject: Re: Question #3 "Display PostScript--so what?"
Reply-To: samurai@uriel.cs.mgill.ca
Organization: SOCS, McGill University, Montreal, Canada
Date: Sun, 16 Aug 1992 20:20:11 GMT

In article <1992Aug6.150734.23788@ms.uky.edu> borders@ms.uky.edu (Johnny  
Borders) writes:

> When I can sit and actually watch a fast machine redraw Display PostScript,
> which do I tell people is slow? The pretty PostScript, the CPU, or the 
> operating system? It's very difficult to convince people to use a NeXT when
> they watch it struggle to keep up with itself.

Something is wrong there.

It's more than just saying "Duhhh, something's slow!" There are many many 
things that can affect a machine's performance. Since DPS is NOT
slow and the 68040 is NOT slow, and the OS is NOT slow, then I'd
place my money on the user or sysadmin doing something silly with
the machine (ie. running 800 apps at once on an 8 Meg machine, seen
it, seen it many times).

I'd say to learn what you're doing before you go around blaming
the machine (speaking from experience :-).

- db
From: basiji@milton.u.washington.edu (David Basiji)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.advocacy
Subject: Re: NeXT's, Amiga's, PC's, MAC'S, (was Re: Question #2 "Are Macintosh Users Really Happy?")
Date: 19 Aug 92 17:25:42 GMT
Organization: University of Washington

pitre@n5160d.nrl.navy.mil (Richard Pitre) writes:

>If you die and go to user heaven, there will be a Macintosh on your desk.

>If you die and go to hacker heaven, there will be an Amiga on your desk
> with no Commodore logo on the box.(Commode door will be in hell.)

>If you die and go to hacker-user heaven, there will be a NeXT on your
>  desk. (God bless Steve Jobs)

>If you die and go to bragger heaven, there will be a 100 Mhz intel 586 
> with a 1 billion gigabyte, nanosecond access hard drive on
> your desk running, CPM with subdirectories/DOS 2.3, 3.3, 4.00.1.1.3, 5.0,
> Windows, Windows NT, OS2, and the ultimate consortium's ultimate answer 
> to everything. (IBM will be in hell.)

>If you die and go to hell you will have a DOS machine with 2^16
> interacting dip switches on the motherboard, 6 or 7 kinds of expounded    
> distended memory, several kinds of DOS emulation, and a word processor
> with so many device drivers and features that there is no room in memory
> or the hard disk for the actual program. ( the machine will only cost 50 
> cents and there will be a truck load of applications free for the taking)

...and then there's my job, which is like hell, except that there are
twelve of these machines. They are networked together with a single, 
unreliable file server, a CDROM-based program that was never meant
to run over a network, and a slave print server.

Oh yeah, I almost forgot, they're all running(?) Windows.


Dave "I'd put a bullet in my brain but the pay's too good" Basiji


-- 
David Basiji 
"C neophyte, Bioengineering Grad Student, Internet Personality"

email: basiji@u.washington.edu          
NeXTmail: basiji@larry.pathology.washington.edu

		"Whining is just anger coming out of a very small hole."
            --Stuart Smalley
From: pitre@n5160d.nrl.navy.mil (Richard Pitre)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.advocacy
Subject: Re: Summary of Amiga REXX, as it applies to NeXT
Date: 19 Aug 92 14:23:23 GMT

The Amiga has a multitasking REXX server.
NeXT has a Display PostScript server which might be made to perform the  
same function as the REXX server except for possibly the multitasking  
aspect. I'm not sure that the Display PostScript server multitasks. I'm  
also not sure that that would be important.

The REXX server communicates with Amiga processes via its kernal's  
interprocess messaging system which is like a subset of NeXT's Mach  
messaging system.

So all of the pieces seem to be there. If every application were made to  
respond to messages consisting of ascii strings  which are the  
application's menu item names and if any process could send these messages  
to any other process(by process name) via the server then we would be in  
bussiness. 

A lot of the REXX functionality can be had on the NeXT via piping, the  
clip board, services, and the new remote object stuff in 3.0. One thing  
that REXX provides that seems to be still missing on the NeXT is a system  
wide macro language. I thing that using PostScript as the macro language  
is better than integrating another language like REXX into the NeXT  
system. 

- Richard

Pretend that I put some distillate of political drivel here.
Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.advocacy
From: marcu@leland.Stanford.EDU (Marc Albert Ullman)
Subject: Re: Boot 3.0 from other devices.
Organization: DSG, Stanford University, CA 94305, USA
Date: Thu, 20 Aug 92 05:20:30 GMT

In article <1992Aug19.194532.20530@leland.Stanford.EDU> m@crito.stanford.edu (M Carling) writes:
>> So why not simply let the user do it.  If you set up a machine at a
>> user meeting or something, you could let the user hit the <CR> or
>> click the mouse rather than having someone else do it for them.
>
>Because we have about 100 members outside of North America.

Oh, I didn't realize that BaNG was such a disperse organization.

--Marc
From: jmd@cube.handheld.com (Jim De Arras)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.advocacy
Subject: Re: Next vs Macintosh for the Graphic Professional (rtf)
Date: 23 Aug 92 15:46:53 GMT
Organization: Hand Held Products, Inc.

In article <1992Aug21.173350.620@prim> prim!dave@germany.eu.net (Dave  
Griffiths) writes:
> In article <860@rtbrain.rightbrain.com> reynolds@rightbrain.com writes:
> >
> 
> [68,000 characters deleted, half of which was in RICH TEXT FORMAT]
> 
> I have to pay for my news feed. Please take your marketing elsewhere.
> 
> Dave Griffiths
I have to pay for my feed, too, $25 a day, and I enjoy Mr. Reynold's articles.

If you can't afford the connection, don't use it, but don't drag the rest of us  
to your tolerance level.

Jim De Arras
Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.advocacy
From: kocks@jessica.stanford.edu (Peter Kocks)
Subject: Re: Question #2 "Are Macintosh Users Really Happy?"
Organization: Academic Information Resources
Date: Wed, 12 Aug 92 22:55:24 GMT

In article <1992Aug12.212216.13347@csi.on.ca> richard@csi.on.ca (Richard Martin) writes:
>In article <1992Aug11.004009.10542@leland.Stanford.EDU> kocks@jessica.stanford.edu (Peter Kocks) writes:
>>In article <1992Aug6.143640.17193@ms.uky.edu> borders@ms.uky.edu (Johnny Borders) writes:
>>a lowly Mac Classic with a 68000
>>which came out in what, 1980, can do it in half the time.

I was trying to say the the 68000 came out in something like 1980, but
I don't know.  Yes, the Mac came out in 1984.  Of course, the date is
beside the point.  The fact is that the 68000 is OOOOLLLLDDDD.

--PK
Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.advocacy