From: cla04@seq1.keele.ac.uk (A.T. Fear)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.greek
Subject: Re: Greece's 10 Mistakes
Date: 27 Sep 92 10:49:06 GMT
Organization: Keele University, England

From article <1992Sep26.223829.61267@ns1.cc.lehigh.edu>, by dk0a@ns1.cc.lehigh.edu (DIMITRIOS KOUVATSOS):
>>
>>All reasonable people also agree that the ancient Macedonians formed
>>part of the larger Greek culture area.  To what _extent_ they were
>>considered or considered themselves "Greek" is disputed on the net, as
>>among serious scholars.
>>
>>As A.T. Fear points out, neither point is relevant to the current fate
>>of the former Yugoslav republic of Macedonia...
> 
> For the other readers, and not for "s", I point out that of course both points
> are absolutely relevant to the cultural piracy the Bulgarians of Skopjie
> attempt to perform. Every educated and rational person

I hope that 'every rational and educated person' will also have noted
the 'pursuasive definitions' in the above sentence.

> now knows that ancient
> Macedonia was Greek, even though some only agree to it in the cultural sense
> and have reservations or doubts about it in the ethnic sense

Well the ancient Greeks seemed to doubt it strongly in all these senses.

> (and as I said, the evidence at least strongly suggests that the Macedonians were even
> ethnically Greek)

Some of us would beg to differ.

> - that no distinct from the Greeks and the Bulgarians
> "Macedonian" nation ever existed until its artificial political fabrication in
> the 20th century.

As I have already pointed out whether or not the some inhabitants of
Macedonia are Bulgarian in origin, it is clear that some of them had a
sense of identity as Macedonians well before you imply, see Brailsford's
book Macedonia and its account of the uprising of 1903.
As I've already pointed out Greek history itself provides a perfect example of this in
the city-states of the classical period. Talking of Greek history, I
think it would be very hard to prove the existence of a unitary 'Greek nation' in the modern sense that you
are implying in antiquity - Greekness then was a much looser feeling,
more like the modern feeling of being European. Are you suggesting that all nations should be founded on some sort
of notional racial purity? It seems to me that Macedonia as a geographical name is a
step forward from the ethnic chauvinism that is currently plaguing the Balkans.
The point remains that *now* there is a country called Macedonia where
the people call themselves Macedonians. I don't see any one has the
right to tell them otherwise, certainly a discussion of ancient history,
interesting though it is, has no bearing on the subject. 


> But many people already confuse those impostors of Skopjie
> as inheritors of the Macedonian heritage which in reality is Greek.

As Ancient Macedon was neither Greek nor Slavic, I think it is best regarded
as the inheritance of both groups, as something that happened in the past in the land they now
inhabit. I regard the Roman period of my country's history as part of my
inheritance, though none of my ancestors (to the best of my knowledge) would have been in Britain
at the time.

> In a few decades, if the piracy of the Greek name of Macedonia were allowed to stand,
> most people would associate everything that Macedonia ever was to the state
> that would so unjustly bear that name - almost nobody would remember that
> "Macedonia is something Greekish", as a non-Greek netter once described to be
> his historical feeling.

No one has suggested that the Greek province of Macedonia should change
its name so where's the problem?

> And to say nothing about what territorial claims would
> be raised against Greece then, if they are even raised now that the Greekness
> of Macedonian history is still remembered...


Where are these claims? Why is this inevitable? Belgium and Luxembourg
seem to get on alright. 

> Dimitris Kouvatsos
> 

Andy