HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: thietaniemi@cc.helsinki.fi
Newsgroups: talk.politics.soviet
Subject: ESTONIAN elections - final results
Date: 26 Sep 92 07:58:14 GMT
Organization: University of Helsinki

-------------------------------------------------------------
THE RESULTS OF THE ESTONIAN PARLIAMENTARY ELECTIONS
-------------------------------------------------------------
Because of the complicated system, these are the final results of
the parliamentary elections (At least, I hope so! I had to combine four
different sources, but this seems to be the final result. I update
the results, when it happened not to be the case.).

The characterizations in "quotation marks" are my own.

RIIGIKOGU                                          101 seats

Fatherland "conservatives"                          29
ERSP "right wing conservatives"                     10
The Moderates "right wing social democrats"         12
-------------------------------------------------------
The core of cabinet coalition: at least             51 seats

Secure home "post-communist managers"               17
People's front "left wing social democrats"         15
Estonian citizen "Estonians in exile"                8
The royalists "court jesters"                        8
Enterpreneurs' party "Tiit Made"                     1
The greens                                           1
---------------------------------------------------------
The maximum for opposition                          50  seats

As you see, the previous figures have somewhat changed. The main thing is
that now the right wing and the right wing social democrats can form 
a majority government.

Estonia will have her first right wing government (with right wing social
democrats) in 52 years. This coalition will without doubt elect Lennart
Meri president. I'll bet that the conservative prime minister will be
Mart Laar (the historian) or Ulo Nu"gis (the former Supreme soviet
chairman).

It seems that the Estonians say farewell to president Arnold Ru"u"tel,
a patriot and a statesman, who brought the Estonian independence back
from Moscow, signed by Yeltsin, in his briefcase. (Upcoming:
the Ru"u"tel memoirs?)

Lennart Meri, a schooled polyglott diplomat and writer, who speaks
better Finnish than most of the Finns do, will have no problems at least
with his neighbours in the North!

Now, there will inevitably be various propaganda attacks against Meri.
Let us observe carefully his actual statements and propositions!
                             ------
with the best regards
the observer
Tapani Hietaniemi, University of Helsinki
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
The very best thing: People are actually speaking about Estonia and usually
they even spell the names right! Estonia EXISTS.
Newsgroups: talk.politics.guns
From: alane@microsoft.com (Alan Ezekiel)
Subject: Re: Re: A little on self defense (what should I carry ?)
Date: 03 Oct 92 00:50:12 GMT
Organization: Microsoft Corporation

m0102@tnc.UUCP (FRANK NEY) writes:
>
>Notes on self-defense locked in a safe-deposit box??????!!!!!!!!
>
>What is Ayoob teaching in there that he is so afraid of being found
>out by society at large?  Or is this just a ploy to get him more
>students?
>
>Frank Ney N4ZHG EMT-P  LPVa NRA ILA GOA CCRTKBA "M-O-U-S-E"

Massad Ayoob teaches his students two kinds of survival: living
through a criminal assault (if such should ever happen to you) and
surviving the legal prosecution that will follow.  In his view, it
makes little sense to take the effort to train with firearms and
carry them daily, while avoiding the minimal effort necessary to keep
you out of prison if you are ever forced to shoot an attacker.

There are many concepts which are critical to your court survivability.
For a solid treatment of these issues, I highly recommend Ayoob's LFI-1
course.  But to answer your specific question:

When the jury considers a self-defense case, they are required to
consider whether the actions taken by the defendant were reasonable
and necessary ACCORDING TO THE FACTS AND CIRCUMSTANCES AS KNOWN TO
THE DEFENDANT AT THE TIME.

Example: a police officer mistakenly shoots a youth with a toy gun.
         The officer explains to the jury that he _believed_ it was
         a real weapon.  Since the officer must be judged according
         to the facts AS KNOWN TO HIM AT THE TIME, he is likely to
         be exonerated, even though the decision to shoot was clearly
         wrong in retrospect.

How does this apply to your class notes?  Simple.  All of your training
and the knowledge that you gained is admissible evidence in court,
PROVIDED THAT YOU CAN PROVE YOU KNEW IT BEFORE THE ATTACK.  You will be
able to stand up in court and explain how you _knew_ that a knife was
lethal even 21 feet away because you learned it in Ayoob's class, and
by golly, here are the notes you took!

The problem is that the prosecutors will think you made this stuff up
after the incident to cover your butt.  So you have to be able to prove
the notes pre-date the incident.  Ayoob's suggestion: photocopy your
notes, mail them (by registered mail) to yourself, and stuff the still-
sealed envelope in your safety deposit box at the bank.  This way, you
can submit the sealed, dated folder as evidence if you should ever be
charged in court.

                               -- Alane --
   /-----------------------------------------------------------------\
  /   NOBODY shares my opinions,    |    "I am a jelly doughnut"      \
 /    especially not my employer    |    -- President John F Kennedy   \
/-----------------------------------------------------------------------\
Newsgroups: talk.politics.guns
From: amirza@bronze.ucs.indiana.edu (Anmar Caves)
Subject: Re: Re: A little on self defense (what should I carry ?)
Organization: Indiana University
Distribution: usa
Date: Wed, 30 Sep 1992 00:58:37 GMT

In article <1992Sep29.212358.5360@cbfsb.cb.att.com> osan@cbnewsb.cb.att.com (Mr. X) writes:
>
>	Personally, I'd LOVE to custon order a 50 "D" cell Maglite and go a
>	strollin' down the street with it and see what the asshole cops thought
>	of that.  I'm sure I'd wind up in the hoosegow pronto.  Could you
>	IMAGINE the press??  "Man with deadly *50* cell flashlight terrorizes
>	downtown neighborhood..."
>
>	Hate to say it, but Illinois sounds like one SORRY fucking hole in the
>	wall to me.  Even New Jersey ain't *that* bad.  You have my sincerest
>	sympathy.

Funny this should pop up.  A friend handed me a cartoon earlier today.
The caption was "You might be a redneck if...   ...your flashlight
holds more than four batteries"  Cute drawing of a guy on a step
ladder with an armload of cells dropping them in the end of his light.

Pertinant:
I use a 4 D-cell maglight with a .5A QH bulb as a backup light for
caving.  It's also big enough to use as a cane in low stoopways, and
comes in handy for subduing cave vandals until the sheriff can come
and properly beat them.  I also use it when I go out walking at night,
but I live in a town where such silly nonsense as banning a flashlight
isn't tolerated.

-- 
Anmar Mirza   # Mayor of Dogspit, IN  #My Opinions! NotIU's! #Purveyor of
EMT-D         # Located somewhere in  # Legalize Explosives! #nontraditional
N9ISY (tech)  # the Outback of the    #I've got my own fusion#family values
Networks Tech.# Mirza Ranch.C'mon over#plant. Just ask me.   #Space For Rent
From: tomm@voodoo.boeing.com (Tom Mackey)
Newsgroups: talk.politics.guns
Subject: Re: What Happens to Your Gun if You Defend Yourself at Home ?
Date: 3 Oct 92 00:59:09 GMT
Organization: Boeing Graphics project, Bellevue WA

In article <1992Sep25.000053.16753@cbnewsd.cb.att.com> jhg@ihlpa.att.com (John H Gustavson) writes:
>It just occurred to me that if a perpetrator invaded my house and
>I defended myself and shot him/her, would the gun I shot the perpetrator
>with be confiscated for 'evidence' or whatever ?


>This brings up an important issue to me:  If my gun is confiscated,
>I will need more than one in order to defend myself and family against
>another invasion.

>Anyone out there know the laws in Illinois ?


>P.S.   	Thanks to all of you who replied via Email on my first
>	Ruger/Chevy/Toyota.., etc.  post.

>	All replies were civil, courteous and informative.
>	I have benefited from all who took the time to reply.  Thanks.

>					John H. Gustavson

>[MODERATOR:  Don't assume that *all* firearms won't be taken from
>the house, likewise plan on a search of the whole premises for large
>amounts of cash, etc., that you can say goodbye to.  At least, if you
>live in Maryland, or someplace like it.  But I digress from our charter...
>I'm posting there here so regulars can help John off-line with the gun
>law question, but all followups go to t.p.g.....]


I took the first part of Mas Ayoob's LFI-1 course recently.  He addressed
this concern and recommended that you have a backup gun that you loan to
a trusted friend or relative on a semi-permanent basis -- that is, until
you ask for it back.  BTW, his course is excellent and I highly recommend
that you take it if he should ever be in your area.  I intend to take the
second part of the LFI-1 course when he comes back in the spring.  If you
consider using a firearm in self defense, take his course.  It was the
best $125 I have ever spent.

-- 
Tom Mackey       (206) 865-6575        tomm@voodoo.boeing.com
Boeing Computer Services         ....uunet!bcstec!voodoo!tomm
M/S 7K-20,     P.O. Box 24346,     Seattle, WA     98124-0346
From: lvc@cbnews.cb.att.com (Larry Cipriani)
Newsgroups: talk.politics.guns
Subject: Re: Brady bill decoupled from Crime Bill
Date: 30 Sep 92 20:41:21 GMT
Organization: Ideology Busters, Inc.

In article <1992Sep30.184421.22878@SSD.intel.com> hays@ssd.intel.com (Kirk Hays) writes:
>
>Apparently, the Brady bill (no telling what version) has been decoupled
>from the Crime Bill, and there is an attempt underway to force a vote in
>the Senate by October 3rd.

What is the number of the Senate crime bill ?  Will this new version
of the Brady bill have a new number or will it be called S. 257 ?

>If the Senate version (very Staggers-like) passes, then the Joint
>Conference must reconcile the differences.  Typically, in the past,
>this has resulted in the *worst* of both bills being put into the
>final version, wrt gun control.

>T>Today would be a very good day to call your Senators at (202) 224-3121
>and register your opposition to any form of the Brady Bill.

John "I never saw a gun control law I didn't like" Glen and
Howard "I don't care about airline safety, I just want to ban
plastic guns" Metzenbaum ?  Why waste the money!  Maybe a call is
in order to my representative, John Kasich, who has an excellent
track record.
-- 
Larry Cipriani, att!cbvox1!lvc or lvc@cbvox1.att.com
Newsgroups: talk.politics.guns
From: rats@cbnewsc.cb.att.com (Morris the Cat)
Subject: Re: Candidate ratins on RKBA
Organization: AT&T
Distribution: usa
Date: Tue, 6 Oct 1992 19:36:14 GMT


|Anybody have a list like this for any other states, particularly Illinois?

The latest American Rifleman/Hunter sent to Illinois residents has a
a similar voting chart... ask any Illinois NRA member for this...

Another possibility might be the NRA-affiliated Illinois State Rifle
Association BBS system... ISRA/LIS 708-335-2787... If it isn't online,
ask the BBS sysop if they can place it online... I don't have a
document scanner so if some other Illinois resident has access to one
and has the NRA rating list, feel free to post it here...
From: dgdhome!ddavis@meaddata.com (Don Davis)
Newsgroups: talk.politics.guns
Subject: Re: Grrr! _Atlanta_Constitution_ vs. NRA
Date: Sat, 03 Oct 92 12:41:52 EDT
Distribution: world
Organization: The Davis Home

bill@tesla.eedsp.gatech.edu () writes:

> 
> [Forwarded from a local newsgroup to t.p.g - I figured the interest
> would be there, too]
> 
> The Atlanta Constitution had control over last Sunday's (9/27) editorial
> pages.  In it, they took a scathing, factless attack upon the NRA.

[...]

> [Cynthia Tucker is the editor of the Atlanta Constitution's editorial
> pages]
> 
> I took the time (about an hour, really) on Sunday night to redress each
> innuendo and each attack.  I went through, point by point and rebutted
> each assertion made against the NRA.  When it was in final form, the
> letter comprised about three paragraphs.  I checked and rechecked my
> letter to be sure that my ducks were all in a row and then I faxed
> the letter to the fax number given for letters to the editor.
                    ^^^^^^^^^^
                     - note -
[...]

>        The letter printed in today's Constitution (how ironic, that
> name!) was a completely gutted version of what I had written.  The
> editors at the Constitution had removed each of my rebuttals and simply
> printed a portion of my last paragraph.  The thrust of my letter had
> been diverted [...]

[...]

Perhaps if you posted that fax number, some of the readers of this
newsgroup would use it to express their concern about the newspaper's
policies. Any other phone numbers for the Atlanta Constitution which you
decide to post might also receive some calls.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Don Davis  |  Internet: dgdhome!ddavis@meaddata.com  |  Voice tel: 513-235-0096
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
                              Never look back!
                   (Something might be gaining on you!)

Newsgroups: talk.politics.guns
From: clc5q@hemlock.cs.Virginia.EDU (Clark L. Coleman)
Newsgroups: talk.politics.guns
Subject: Re: Brady Bill dead for the year!!
Date: 5 Oct 92 22:20:04 GMT
Organization: University of Virginia Computer Science Department

In article <3778@bcstec.ca.boeing.com> robs@bcstec.ca.boeing.com (Robert Sipe) writes:
>
>   Republicans were able to block the Brady Bill in the Senate.  Senator
>Joe Biden, sponser of the Brady Bill, has pronounced the bill dead!

What? Republicans killed the bill, and the sponsor was a Democrat?
Unheard of!

-- 
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
"It is seldom that any liberty is lost all at once." David Hume
|||  clc5q@virginia.edu (Clark L. Coleman)
Newsgroups: talk.politics.guns,talk.politics.misc,alt.rant.rockford.illness
From: draughn@iitmax.iit.edu (Mark Draughn)
Newsgroups: talk.politics.guns
Subject: Handguns 'n' Long guns (Was: Re: Libertarians, guns, etc.)
Date: 5 Oct 92 23:24:40 GMT
Organization: Illinois Institute of Technology

In article <1760@rwing.UUCP> pat@rwing.UUCP (Pat Myrto) writes:
[...]
>The idea a handgun is intended to surprise someone in order to murder
>that person is patently false.  One could say the same of a rifle, used
>at long range, and make no more sense.

Consider the situation here in Chicago:

You can make a very good case that a handgun is a better self-defense
weapon than a rifle for use in a typical city housing environment.
The handgun is easier to hide in the home, so it won't be stolen; is
more concealable when carried, so it won't frighten people; can be
used one-handed; is easier to maneuver through narrow doors and
corridors; and uses readily available low-penetration ammunition to
avoid hitting neighbors.  All in all, handguns are very good
self-defense weapons.

Naturally, handguns are forbidden in Chicago.

On the other hand, rifles are bulky, difficulty to maneuver, require
both hands, and have far more power than is needed.  Weilding a good
high-powered hunting rifle, you can shoot through walls (let alone
"bullet-proof" vests), kill with one shot, and hit targets hundreds of
yards away with deadly accuracy.  What possibly use is such a weapon
in a big city?

Hunting rifles are perfectly legal in Chicago.

Useful handguns?  No.  Powerful long-range weapons?  Yes.  It makes no
sense.

I think there are three basic reasons for this state of affairs: (1)
Hunters have a better lobby than self-defense folks, (2) self-defense
is often ignored as a reason to own a gun, and (3) gun control
promoters tend to ignore the utility of guns and just focus on the
negative aspects, so since handguns are used in more crimes, they are
more heavily regulated.

(I have nothing against long-guns or hunters.  The injustice in
Chicago is not that long guns are permitted, but that handguns are
not.)
-- 

Mark Draughn    | <draughn@iitmax.iit.edu> or <SYSMARK@IITVAX> on BITNET
----------------+ Academic Computing Center, Illinois Institute of Technology
+1 312 567 5962 | 10 W. 31st Street, Chicago, Illinois  60616
 
Q: What's the Saudi Arabian national anthem?
A: Onward Christian Soldiers.
-- Joke told by Gulf war soldiers, reported by P. J. O'Rourke
From: bobd@marune.acs.ohio-state.edu (Bob DeBula)
Subject: Re: Stupid question time
Organization: The Ohio State University
Distribution: usa
Date: Mon, 5 Oct 1992 16:10:20 GMT

In article <1992Oct5.140938.15926@cbnewsc.cb.att.com> rats@cbnewsc.cb.att.com (Morris the Cat) writes:
>
>
>|> [Much deleted for bevity]  I asked her, "What
>|>happens if they find you guilty -- do they send you to IBM Jail?"
>
>|Nope, they permanently revoke your IBM cafeteria privileges. The
>|only worse thing I can think of offhand is to have your AT&T
>|cafeteria privileges revoked :-).
>
>Not so fast there, sonny. Colleagues here have so far discovered
>beetles in their Macaroni & Cheese here, and one observed one of the
 ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
 You lucky person! Folks around here aren't allowed
 protein, it makes 'em too rowdy and non PC.

>cooks SMELL some grey looking ground beef to ensure that it was
		  ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
		  Wow! You get *grey* ground beef simulations?
		  Ours tends toward greenish! 

>indeed ground beef before processing it for the grill... perhaps
>revoking AT&T cafetaria privileges might be the start of something
>healthy... :-(

Eat out of the "fud" dispensing machines at a major University
*before* you say that. Actually, my AT&T cafeteria experience
was at the ed center in Dublin, where I'm sure things are nicer.
Still, I remember those hearty meals at the AT&T cafeteria with
fondness every time I am faced with the "eat vending fud or die"
dilmena when I've forgotten to pack lunch or the weather is
ratty :-(

Obligatory t.p.g. tie in:

Some nebulous number of people die every year by pulling vending machines
over on themselves! Ban the evil, baby killing (they *could*
have been wearing one of those papoose thingies when it happened after
all), vending machines! Ban flammable objects!  Ban bans! Er, wait
a minute there.....

:-) :-) :-)
-- 
==========================================================================
              Disclaimer: These are my views, not the U's

        "If it's in the paper it must be true!" --- D. Doright
From: fcrary@ucsu.Colorado.EDU (Frank Crary)
Newsgroups: talk.politics.guns
Subject: Re: Privileges and Rights. (was: Re: GORE...)
Date: 30 Sep 92 05:53:55 GMT
Organization: University of Colorado, Boulder

In article <6828@transfer.stratus.com> cdt@sw.stratus.com (C. D. Tavares) writes:
>> 	False.  A felon loses the right to vote and to firearm
>> ownership during incarceration in many instances (if not all), but
>> the former is returned upon leaving prison...

>Depends on the state, I believe.  Many of them don't.

The federal law, with respect to firearms ownership, is that the state
must restore this right, if and when they restore other rights of
citizens (voting, sitting on a jury, etc...) Here in Colorado, that is
as soon as they leave jail, for non-violent felonies, or after ten
years, for violent ones.

                                                  Frank Crary
                                                  CU Boulder
From: p00056@psilink.com (Faustus)
Newsgroups: talk.politics.guns
Subject: Re: Morton Grove appears in Newsweek
Date: 27 Sep 92 15:58:46 GMT
Organization: Inferno
X-Mailer: PSILink (3.2)

>DATE:   25 Sep 92 19:54:52 GMT
>FROM:   Mr. X <osan@cbnewsb.cb.att.com>
>
>In article <1992Sep23.144619.5424@csi.jpl.nasa.gov> mwette@csi.jpl.nasa.gov (Matt Wette) writes:
>>Morton Grove, Ill., the model city for violent crime control, appears
>>in Newsweek of Sep 28, 1992, in the Periscope section (p.6):
>>   "Chicago is talking ... about a rash of assaults on women by at
>>    least one man posing as a police officer.  In Morton Grove, Ill.,
>>    She fought off the fake cop and escaped.
>>    In two similar incidents earlier this summer women were abducted
>>    and raped.  A fourth woman driver was stopped in southern
>>    Wisconsin last week by an imposter matching the description from
>>    previous attacks -- tall, white, with brown hair and a mustache.
>>    Local officials are considering a crackdown on the sale of phony
>>    cop gear."
>
>	They'd better make flashing lights illegal as well.  Legislate,
>	legislate, legislate... oh JOY for legislation!!
>>
>>The $64 question is
>>	How can women in Morton Grove protect themselves?
>
>	You IDIOT, don't you know ANYTHING?!  They call 911, of course.
>	The police will be there in a jiffy to thwart the evil criminal.
>	Sheesh, some people...
>
>	-Andy V.

Hmmm to flame? Thats is the question, whether Tis be a satirical comment
by Andy V. or in truth he doth believe.. What the hell.. Andy V. do you
really believe that trash you've typed.. Oh big Mister policeman is on the
way.. Well, how in fucking hell is she supposed to call 911 while being raped,
murdered, mutilated or stapled.. What fucking low brained imbeciled narrow
thinking cervix did you crawl out of.. Actually, if you believe protecting
yourself is anothers duty... lets test it... Give me your address.. I could
stalk you for awhile and take your worthless life.. keep a phone around..

Enough innocents have died by the hands of the oppression, evil and Ill not
lie down as one of the countless sheep.. waiting for my turn under the knife.
If you are too cowardly to defend yourself, does this give you any right
to deny honest, good people from doing so. Get a life.. since your wasting
this one..

Faustus

==============================================================================
	A free people ought ... to be armed.
					- George Washington
==============================================================================
Newsgroups: talk.politics.guns
From: uk09365@nx01.mik.uky.edu (robert i kesten)
Subject: Re: Re: A little on self defense (what should I carry ?)
Organization: University Of Kentucky, Dept. of Math Sciences
Date: Wed, 30 Sep 1992 00:01:08 GMT
Distribution: usa

In article <1992Sep29.212358.5360@cbfsb.cb.att.com>  
osan@cbnewsb.cb.att.com (Mr. X) writes:
> 
> 	Personally, I'd LOVE to custon order a 50 "D" cell Maglite and go  
a
> 	strollin' down the street with it and see what the asshole cops  
thought
> 	of that.  I'm sure I'd wind up in the hoosegow pronto.  Could you
> 	IMAGINE the press??  "Man with deadly *50* cell flashlight  
terrorizes
> 	downtown neighborhood..."

MAN WITH SEVEN FOOT LONG FLASHLIGHT WREAKS FEAR AND HAVOC.

LEGISLATURE SHOULD BAN 50 CELL FLASHLIGHTS:  POLLS SHOW
95% OF POPULACE SUPPORTS BAN

Newsgroups: talk.politics.guns
From: lambert@spectrum.cs.unsw.oz.au (Tim Lambert)
Subject: Re: NSW homicides
Organization: none
	<LAMBERT.92Oct1021348@henna.spectrum.cs.unsw.oz.au>
	<1992Oct5.030244.17339@mtu.edu>
Date: 6 Oct 92 17:07:42

>>>>> On Mon, 5 Oct 1992 03:02:44 GMT, cescript@mtu.edu (Charles Scripter) said:
> (Tim Lambert) writes:

>>(21

> Huh!?  19 degrees of freedom!  That's enough to least-square fit an elephant!

Explain to us how 19 df allow you to "fit an elephant".

>> data values less two fitted parameters) in the Chi square statistic.
>> Should I have use 18 df?

> I suspect you're drawing meaningless conclusions from your pseudo-
> scientific method...

Your suspicions are incorrect.

Tim
Xref: sparky talk.politics.guns:21729 misc.legal:18122