From: ACUS10@WACCVM.SPS.MOT.COM (Mark Fuller)
Subject: re: Honest Question for any LDS
Organization: Motorola Inc.
Date: Fri, 9 Oct 1992 18:08:37 GMT

From: ksjwr@acad3.alaska.edu (REDELSS JOHN W)
>
> There is a spirit of wrangling, of contention on this thread that is not of th
> Lord.

And there is a spirit of deception in the LDS.

> Jesus Christ spoke to the young Joseph Smith when he was only fourteen years
> old.
        I think it is an established fact that Joseph's supposed
vision has evolved into what it is today, and is historically
unsuported.

        One of the four standard works of Scripture of the Church of
Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, known as The Pearl of Great Price,
contains a section entitled "Joseph Smith History." In this section of
Mormon Scripture we encounter what is known as the story of the
so-called "First Vision." In brief, it tells of Joseph Smith Jr.'s going
into the woods to pray for wisdom in response to a large religious
revival in the area of Palmyra/Manchester in upstate New York, which,
according to the story, took place in the spring of 1820. Not knowing
what church to join, Smith supposedly decided to ask God in prayer.
Smith tells of being overtaken by a "power of some actual being from the
unseen world" and just at the point of despair, in his own words, "I saw
a pillar of light exactly over my head....When the light rested upon me
I saw two Personages...standing above me in the air. One of them spake
unto me, calling me by name and said, pointing to the other--This is My
Beloved Son. Hear Him!" Upon asking these two Personages which church he
should join, Smith supposedly was told that he should join none, "for
they were all wrong; ...all their creeds were an abomination in his
sight, that those professors were all corrupt...."

        The importance of this "First Vision" to the LDS Church cannot
be over-emphasized. The late Mormon Apostle Bruce R. McConkie wrote:
"This transcendent vision was the beginning of latter-day
revelation;...Through it the creeds of Christendom were shattered to
smithereens, and because of it the truth about those Beings whom it is
life eternal to know began again to be taught among men." (_Mormon
Doctrine_, pg. 285). And, as Mormon Prophet Joseph Fielding Smith wrote,
"Mormonism, as it is called, must stand or fall on the story of Joseph
Smith. He was either a prophet of God, divinely called, properly
appointed and commissioned, or he was one of the biggest frauds this
world has ever seen. There is no middle ground." (Doctrines of Salvation
vol. 1, pg. 188).

        Did Joseph Smith Jr. see God the Father and Jesus Christ as
separate and distinct beings in the spring of 1820? The great mass of
historical evidence now available to the honest investigator gives only
one answer: no. Reproduced on the front cover of this tract is a
photocopy of the earliest account of the First Vision, from 1832,
written in his own handwriting. This account was the beginning of a
history of the LDS Church (see Dean C. Jessee, _The Personal Writings of
Joseph Smith_ pages 3-14). It says:


   "...and while in the attitude of calling upon the Lord in the 16th
   year of my age a pillar of light above the brightness of the sun at
   noon day come down from above and rested upon me...and the Lord
   opened the heavens upon me and I saw the Lord and he spake unto me
   saying Joseph my Son thy Sins are forgiven thee...behold I am the
   Lord of glory I was crucifyed for the world..."

        One will search in vain for any reference to two personages
anywhere in this account. Really, if you believed that God had commanded
that a history of His Church be written (_Doctrine and Covenants_ 21:1,
69:3), would you not include in that history something as important as
seeing God the Father and Jesus Christ as separate and distinct gods?
Remember, this is the earliest account, and the only one written in
Joseph's own handwriting. (See the _Ensign_ of 12/84 for further
corroboration of this account, page 25).

        Joseph's diary of November 9, 1835 contains yet another account,
and here Joseph does mention two personages, only this time they testify
that "Jesus Christ is the Son of God." In this account angels are
mentioned, but not God the Father or Jesus Christ! What makes this
account even more fascinating is the fact that in the _Documentary
History of the Church_, under the date of November 14, 1835 (only 5 days
after the above account) we have another mention of this "vision." When
the account was originally printed in serial form in the _Deseret News_
on May 29, 1852, it recounted Smith's telling Erastus Holmes of his
experiences "...from six years up to the time I received the first
visitation of angels, which was when I was about fourteen years old..."
However, since this contradicts the modern story, recent editions of the
_Documentary History_ have changed the wording: "...from six years old
up to the time I received my first vision, which was when I was about
fourteen years old..." (_Documentary History of the Church_, 2:312).
Given the close proximity in time of the above diary account that
mentions angels, and the editing of the text of the _Documentary
History_ in an attempt to cover up this fact, it seems to be clear that
the "First Vision" story has undergone a substantial amount of
evolution. Is it possible that the LDS Church in 1852 really believed
that only angels appeared to Joseph Smith?

        Most certainly! A brief perusal of the following references from
the _Journal of Discourses_ should suggest an answer to that question.
President George A. Smith taught that when Joseph...

   "went humbly before the Lord and inquired of Him,...the Lord answered
   his prayer, and revealed to Joseph, by the ministration of angels,
   the true condition of the religious world. And when the holy angel
   appeared, Joseph inquired which of all these de-nominations was
   right..." (_Journal of Discourses 12:334).


        Is it really possible that Joseph made up the story as he went
along, adding God the Father only in the late 1830's? Maybe he did not
realize that by doing so he was violating his own revelation in Doctrine
and Covenants 84:21-22, where he says that no man can see God the Father
without the priesthood and live. Joseph supposedly did not receive the
"priesthood" until 1829!

        Another interesting point that must be addressed by the person
who believes in Joseph's story is the fact that though the modern church
in its missionary presentations claims that Joseph immediately came
under persecution for telling people of his "First Vision" story, the
fact is that there is no clear, unambiguous reference to this vision
until many years after the alleged event -- until the late 1830's at the
best. For example, E.D. Howe published the first "anti-Mormon" book in
1834, and never once mentions the "First Vision." If it was so well
known, why did he not take Smith to task for it? Why do we not find
mention of this vision by other Mormons of the time? Why do we not find
many sermons based on the vision from the leaders in Utah? Why such a
deafening silence, such a lack of evidence?

        Modern research has provided us with much more information on
the historicity of this alleged event. In 1967, Rev. Wesley Walters
published an article entitled New Light on Mormon Origins from the
Palmyra (N.Y.) Revival. In this article, Rev. Walters revealed the
results of his study of a question that had not yet been addressed fully
-- was there really a revival in Manchester in 1820? By going to the
original sources themselves, Rev. Walters was able to determine that
there were definitely revivals in the area in 1816/1817 and in
1824/1825, but none in 1820! Though in this limited space we cannot
recount the literally hundreds of facts brought forth by Rev. Walters in
both this study as well as another discussed below, a few items should
be sufficient for our purposes.

        First, Oliver Cowdery's story says that a revival broke out in
1823 under Rev. Lane, a Methodist minister. William Smith's account as
well dates the revival in 1824. Worthy of note as well is the fact that
both of these sources (Cowdery and Smith) by mentioning various
ministers help us to find the date; for both of the ministers they
mentioned were not assigned to that area until after 1822! Second, Rev.
Walters discovered the story of the revival written by Rev. Lane
himself. All of the details of the revival that broke out in September
of 1824 match perfectly with Joseph's own story -- hundreds of people
joined the churches -- Methodist, Baptist, and Presbyterian (401 to be
exact), and it lasted through the spring of 1825. However, when we look
to the records relevant to 1820, we find no evidence of revival at all.
Rather than having hundreds joining the Methodist church, the records
for the entire circuit show that there were losses of 23 for 1819, 6 for
1820, and 40 for 1821. The Baptist Church in Palmyra gained only 6 by
baptism in 1820 (compared to 94 for 1825), and other local Baptist
churches listed losses of 4, 5 and 9 for the year. Add to this the fact
that though the denominational publications had devoted many pages to
the "glowing reports" of the revivals in both 1816/17 and 1824/25,
nothing is mentioned about any revivals in 1820.

        So stood the situation until 1988 when Rev. Walters released new
information from his research. This new information put together records
photo-copied by BYU in 1970, newly discovered land assessment records
from Manchester township and the records of "warning out" from Norwich,
Vermont. What do these new historical sources tell us?

        First, the Mormon story up until this point has been as follows:
the Smith's live in Norwich, Vermont from 1814 to 1816, when they move
to Palmyra. The Smiths live in Palmyra for two years till 1818, at which
time they move to Manchester. Two years later, as Smith states, a
revival breaks out and the First Vision takes place (1820). Any
dis-ruption in this chronology not only threatens the entire story of
the early history of Mormonism, but, since the date of the First Vision
is part of Mormon Scripture (1820), it also destroys the foundation of
Mormon revelation. With this in mind, lets look at just a few of the
facts.

        Recently the record of the Smith's being "warned out" of
Norwich, VT has been discovered. "Warning out" was a common occurrence
during that time period. Towns were responsible for taking care of the
poor within their borders. When a family moved in that appeared to be
less than affluent, they were "warned out" so that the town would not
have to take responsibility for them should they come into need. In the
Smith's case, this occurred March 15, 1816. Now, as the warning out
normally happened very shortly after arrival, and had to take place at
most one year after arrival to avoid difficulties for the town, this
means that the Smiths lived in Norwich from 1816 to 1818. Correlation of
weather records with the story of Lucy Mack Smith confirms these dates.

        Next, the road-tax records from Palmyra indicate that the name
of Joseph Smith Sr. appears from 1817 through 1822. As all men 21 years
of age and older as of April were required to be listed, Alvin Smith's
name appears as well in 1820. It is evident that Joseph Smith Sr. moved
to Palmyra before the rest of his family, who joined him there at a
later date. It is important to note that Smith is listed as living in
Palmyra until 1822 -- despite LDS scholar's saying that he moved from
there four years earlier in 1818.

        Further information has come to light in the land assessment
records for Manchester township. These records make it clear that the
Smith's did not contract to buy the 100 acres of land for their farm in
Manchester county until after June of 1820, for the tax rolls at that
time show that all of the land was taxed to the original owners, the
heirs of Nicholas Evertson. However, in the tax rolls of 1821 we see
that Joseph Smith Sr. is taxed for 100 acres at $7.00 an acre -- the
price of raw, unimproved land at the time. The land is given the same
value in the 1822 assessment, but in 1823 the value rises to $1,000, a
jump of 40%, even though the other land values only went up 4% in the
area. This indicates that, for the first time, improvements were made to
the land, including the construction of a home. What does this tell us?
It suggests that the Smith's moved onto the land and lived there after
the summer of 1822 and before the summer of 1823, which perfectly meshes
with the data provided from all sources, especially the road-tax records
from Palmyra. Then, recall that Joseph Smith himself said that it was
"two years" after their move to Manchester (1822/23) that the revivals
took place (1824/25). This corresponds perfectly to the information that
shows that the revival Smith described took place in 1824/25.

        What then can be said of all of this? First, we see that given
just the brief summary of the information as we have it today, one
cannot help but suggest that the "First Vision" story evolved over time
into the form it has today. Joseph Smith Jr. was simply in error when he
said that this religious experience took place in 1820 -- a very human
error to be sure, but we must remember that this error is part of Mormon
Scripture! Those who claim to be prophets can not make excuses for
themselves. Not only is the status of the "First Vision" placed in grave
jeopardy, but all of the rest of the Mormon story is thrown into
absolute disarray, and the Mormon claim to be "the only true Church" is
left without historical foundation.


Mark
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