From: pharvey@mipos3.intel.com (Paul Harvey)
Newsgroups: talk.religion.misc
Subject: Re: I'm God.
Date: 14 Oct 92 20:14:36 GMT
	<71068@hydra.gatech.EDU>
Organization: so play the resurrector and give the dead some life

In article <71068@hydra.gatech.EDU> 
rpitts@emperor.gatech.edu (Richard Pitts) writes:
>In article <fTQ4nf9@quack.sac.ca.us> 
pharvey@quack.sac.ca.us (Paul Harvey) writes:
>|In article <70921@hydra.gatech.EDU> 
>|rpitts@emperor.gatech.edu (Richard Pitts) writes:
>|>In article <fTGg9M0@quack.sac.ca.us> 
>|pharvey@quack.sac.ca.us (Paul Harvey) writes:
>|>|In article <70498@hydra.gatech.EDU> 
>|>|rpitts@emperor.gatech.edu (Richard Pitts) writes:
>|>|>Agreed.  And we have Christianity spread thoughout the world.  It spread 
>|>|>from Jerusalem out rather quickly.  Within a few days of Pentecost there
>|>|>were 3,000 (Acts 2:41) and then 5,000 (Acts 4:4) believers within 
>|>|>Jerusalem.  
>|>|Huh? Are you confusing facts with myth? Christianity was a total dud
>|>|amongst the Hellenistic Jews. It was in the crumbling remains of the
>|>|Greco/Roman empire that Christianity found it's converts. Of course,
>|>|"convert or die" is one offer that is hard to refuse.
>|>Were the Hellenistic Jews the only Jews?  I think not.  On the day
>|>of Pentecost, a big feast day, there were Jews from all over the region -
>|>not just from Jerusalem.
>|I think you are getting things confused, Pentecost is of course a
>|Christian holiday thus unlikely that Jews would come from all over to
>|attend. Shavuot on the other hand is something entirely different. You
>How was it a Christian holiday in Acts 2?????????  It says the people
>were in the house when the day of Pentecost came.  Why was Paul trying
>to return to Jerusalem by Pentecost (Acts 20:16)?
>Why were there God-fearing Jews from every nation under heaven in
>Jerusalem (Acts 2:5)?   

You are confusing facts and myth. You don't know what myth is, do you?

>If you can suppress you gloating, what is the modern day equilvalent
>(Christian or Jewish) term for Shavuot?

The Jewish term is of course Shavuot. The Christians claim this holiday just
as they claim many European pagan holidays as their own. Christians call
this holiday Pentecost which obviously relates to Jesus. You won't find
many Jews worshiping Jesus on Shavuot, for obvious reasons. The so-called
New Testament is written in Greek and represents pagan-Greek-Hellenistic
thought. Don't try to pawn the so-called New Testament off on Judaism. Those
who practice Judaism see no need for any new covenant, the Hebrew scriptures
stand nicely on their own without any pagan-Greek scripture to back them up.
Followers of Judaism see no problem in adhering to the rules of the Mosaic
Law, they see no need for any new covenant to relieve them of this burden. It
was the early Christians who forgot how to read Hebrew and felt that the
Mosaic Law was too great a burden, thus the need for a new covenant in
Greek, of course. Christianity represents the combination of a Greek
translation of the Hebrew scriptures (Septuagint), the Persian light/dark
duality, the Greco/Roman Lord of the Underworld and the pagan trinity, as
well as a few others. Judaism is pure monotheism.

>|Christians are always trying to steal other cultures holidays. You're
>|not going to fool me with your Christian propaganda, but obviously you
>|have already fooled yourself.
>Is the Passover a Christian or Jewish holiday?  

Depends how it is observed. The early Christians were poorly schooled
Hellenistic Jews, they no longer learned how to read Biblical Hebrew and
complained that the Mosaic Law was to heavy a burden to carry, thus the
need for a new covenant in Greek. The Christian impact on Hellenistic Jewry
was almost nil. Christianity came to life in the work of Paul as the falling
Roman Empire was replaced by the Christian Empire. Christianity had its
greatest impact in Europe amongst European pagans. I'm quite sure that the
marketing technique of "convert or die" had something to do with it's
popularity.

>|>|>Oh.  What is the volume of books we call the Bible that predicts and
>|>|>confirms this one man Jesus the Christ as he was to come, was here,
>|>|>and will come again?  I understand that's not enough.  
>|>|Man? Did you say man? I thought Jesus was a God or Son of God or
>|>|something like that. And the "New Testament" was written after the
>|>|facts. Makes prediction rather easy, don't you think?
>|>That's right he was a man, but he was God.  Don't get too excited
>|>about your perception of Jesus being only a man, for he was the fullness
>|>of God in human flesh.
>|Oh, so Jesus was both a man and a God at the same time, and also
>|sometimes a Son of God too, right? So, if Jesus could do it, does that
>Correct.
>|mean we can too? And what's all this pain and suffering and dying stuff,
>We can be a child of God, but not God.

A child of God, like Jesus?

>|this means nothing to God. If Jesus is a God then what is so special
>Jesus is God not a God.

How can someone be a son of God and God at the same time?

>|about what He did? Any God can do that kind of stuff. The Goddess Kali
>Because he was human, too.

Don't you find this reasoning to be somewhat circular?

>|creates and destroys the Hawai'ian islands and is still active today on
>|the Big island. Surely an active Goddess is better than a dead man-god?
>Surely, a live resurrected God-man in an immortal body is better
>than a Goddes who only creates and destroys some islands.  Jesus if
>the creator and he sustains all things - visible and invisible.  He
>is resposible for more than just some islands and he has conquered
>death and has showed to us that there is life after death.

Where?

>|>|What? Buddha acheived enlightenment, that is transcendence of death, yet
>|>|he came back to play with the children. Once you are enlightened, you
>|>|are beyond death. But, being a Jesus freak, this is all beyond you.
>|>What is the after death, if one is enlightened as such and is beyond death?
>|Richard, you ask ME this question? The best have all been humbled and I
>|am not as enlightened as the best. If your God is truly transcendent
>|then the answer will be there.
>I agree :-) the answer is with my God, the Creator, The Father, Son, and
>Holy Spirit.

Only if you seek it, that is seek the truth.

>|>It says "YOUR MEN".  Jesus was God and man.
>|How can that be? I thought man and god were separate and yet you tell me
>|that they are one and the same. Are you sure it is possible for a man to
>|also be a God? That is a very pagan belief.
>This is the mystery of Jesus the Christ - he was and his God in human flesh.

Some mystery. I thought you said Christianity was simple and had all the
answers? Seems like Jesus is all questions and no answers.

>|>|>Jesus rose and proved
>|>|>there was life beyond the grave and death had no more power over him nor
>|>|>will it have power over those who believe, for we will overcome death
>|>|>at the resurrection.
>|>|Oh really, so you predict that you won't die? And where will you go when
>|>|you die? The heavens? What like the moon? Outside of the universe? Even
>|>|at the speed of light, the first Christians haven't yet left the
>|>|universe. Where are you predicting yourself to go?
>|>Ultimately, we will be here on earth (Rev 20-22), but before that
>|>we will be with Jesus, but we are not told much about that.
>|Not told much about that? Where are all the sure answers now? What good
>|is a religion that doesn't answer the BIG questions? Are you telling me
>|that Christians have no idea?
>We have what I stated above.  I never said that we have been given
>understanding about everything.  The Apostle Paul said we see through
>a glass darkly, but then (in eternity) we will know as we are fully
>known.  Somethings are for God and not for us to know - I believe we
>will know them, but the time is not yet.

Oh, is this a Buddhist leaning here? Krishna consciousness? Gnostic mystery?

>|>We do have a couple of stories.  One was his birth - how many other
>|>people have such a documented birth????
>|Oh please!
>Oh please, WHAT?

Richard! Wake up! You have eyes, use them! What kind of a question is: "how
many other people have such a documented birth????" I have seen babies born
live and on videotape, where is the like documentation of Jesus's birth? Where
is Jesus's birth certificate? Where is His circumcision record, Bar Mitzvah
record, etc?

>|>|>They had them figured out.  Joseph was not the father.  Mary was the
>|>|>mother.  The legal line came through Joseph, as Matthew presents it.
>|>|>Matthew does not say Joseph was Jesus' father.  Luke gives the
>|>|>male ancestorial line and so the blood line of Jesus through Mary to 
>|>|>David -  Jesus was the son of each of those in Luke's geneology.  Both 
>|>|>of them mention Joseph.
>|>|Hmm, seems like kind of a screw up, don't you think?
>|>Oh.  Could you elaborate?
>|Unlikely, if you don't see it you don't see it.
>As I've said before, I don't quickly follow your continued reference to what
>I should have seen very well.  If you want a response, spell it out.

See the related treads on this issue, there is no need for us to cover what
has already been covered in other posts.

>For Christ and His Kingdom,
>Richard Pitts
>rpitts@cerl.gatech.edu       |    
>Atlanta, GA                --|-- 
>                        -|-  |  -|-
>                         |   |   |

Hey, you've reduced you idols, very good. You know those old Mosaic Laws
aren't really all that heavy a burden, you should check them out. Discover
your roots, so to speak.