HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: bjz@sei.cmu.edu (Barbara Zayas)
Subject: Re: January 4th Episode
Organization: Software Eng. Inst.;Carnegie-Mellon U.; Pittsburgh, PA 15213   _USA_
Date: Tue, 5 Jan 1993 13:52:53 EST


In article <rizzoe.616.726244287@FASECON.ECON.NYU.EDU>, rizzoe@FASECON.ECON.NYU.EDU (Emily Rizzo) writes:
|> Finally, I was troubled by the fact that Maurice made an anti-gay comment
|> to Maggie and went unchallenged.  In previous episodes, I'm thinking of 
|> Chris's trial in particular, he has always been called to account for 
|> such bigotry.  Two cheers to Northern Exposure for showing gay characters
|> in non-stereotyped professions but they should have gone all the way and
|> had Maggie challenge Maurice's bigotry rather than let in slide.

I was battling a whopper of a headache last night when I
*thought* I heard Maurice toss out a comment about how
(roughly paraphrased) "fairy's have good upper body
strength."  He said this directly to Maggie as they were
standing in front of her house during the initial excavation
scene (he had apparently hired some help and he was making
references to them).

Anyway, given the state of my headache, I assumed, judging
from Maggie's NON-reaction, that I just misheard Maurice and
didn't think twice about it.

To the degree that they did it last night, it doesn't bother
me that they put such a comment into the dialogue.  What does
worry me is that people like Maurice are real and they carry
with them and often express those sorts of sentiments and
that level of hatred.  Maurice usually makes me cringe, he
reminds me of so many real hate-filled people.  Another
aspect of Northern Exposure's realism (IMHO).

An aside to this issue...there was another product placement
ad last night -- Mike mentioned "[generic] bicycling and
Nordic Tracking".  (This product placement stuff makes the
show more real to me...providing that it's not done too, too
blatantly.)





Barbara Zayas		              Software Engineering Institute
bjz@sei.cmu.edu			      Carnegie Mellon University
Organization: University of Maine System
Date: Friday, 8 Jan 1993 15:22:51 EST
From: <IO11283@MAINE.MAINE.EDU>
Newsgroups: alt.tv.northern-exp
Subject: Re: Why I Liked Survival of the Species

Here, here! Well said- I KNOW there's some stereotypes, and some psychobabble,
or politically correct babble in the 1/4 episode, but I liked the fact that all
of the women- of various ranges on the feminism scale- and all of the men-on va
rious ranges of the "machismo" scale-  were included in that final scene- a bit
 humbling.  I liked the show because I could agree or disagree, and Istill was
surprised a bit by what happenned, and damn it, I still got several great laugh
s. -Jennifer S.
Newsgroups: alt.tv.northern-exp
From: kdc@ccu.umanitoba.ca ()
Subject: Re: Loreena McKennitt
Organization: University of Manitoba, Winnipeg, Manitoba, Canada
Date: Tue, 5 Jan 1993 15:23:02 GMT

In article <1993Jan5.044035.16649@news.acns.nwu.edu> mhw@casbah.acns.nwu.edu (Mike Murphy) writes:
>In article <1993Jan5.041453.24063@sfu.ca> clarkec@fraser.sfu.ca (David Gordon Clarke) writes:
>>Tonight's (Jan. 4, 93) episode ended with a tune by Loreena McKennitt...
>>
>>just thought I would say that...
>
>Well, you just saved me the trouble of asking, so thank you!  I thought it was
>such a beautiful song.
>
>Michelle
>
>


 The song is called Tango to Evora, its on her cassette called _The Visit_
comes right after her incredible version of Greensleeves on side 2).

 Ken D.  U of Manitoba
From: keb3_ss@uhura.cc.rochester.edu (Karin E. Baker)
Newsgroups: alt.tv.northern-exp
Subject: Re: January 4th Episode
Date: 7 Jan 93 06:58:16 GMT
Organization: University of Rochester - Rochester, New York

In <1993Jan5.215006.11294@leland.Stanford.EDU> H. Nunes <hwnunes@leland.stanford.edu> writes:

>In article <rizzoe.616.726244287@FASECON.ECON.NYU.EDU> Emily Rizzo,
>rizzoe@FASECON.ECON.NYU.EDU writes:
>>Finally, I was troubled by the fact that Maurice made an anti-gay comment
>>to Maggie and went unchallenged.  In previous episodes, I'm thinking of 
>>Chris's trial in particular, he has always been called to account for 
>>such bigotry.  Two cheers to Northern Exposure for showing gay characters
>>in non-stereotyped professions but they should have gone all the way and
>>had Maggie challenge Maurice's bigotry rather than let in slide.

>I wasn't surprised when he went unchallenged because he usually isn't. 
>Even when Bernard talked back to him, it just came around to that Bernard
>is also a biggot.

>If you want a really obscure reasons why Maggie didn't talk back to
>Maurice, well, first she wasn't empowered yet.  Second, she is an
>employer of Maurice, as he pays her for Joel's cabin... so he is her boss.


Uh, that he rents a cabin from her doesn't make him her boss. It makes him 
a customer.  A patron.  Maggie makes her own just fine with or without
Joel's rental.

>I was glad that he did make the anti-gay comment, because if he didn't,
>it would have been SO OUT OF CHARACTER!!!

The comment above wasn't against Maurice making the comment, but about 
the fact that it was let to slide.

>As for the gay guys, it was interesting how they were included with the
>men, and how they stood with Joel, Maurice, Holling, and Chris at the end

Ideally, homosexual men would understand the plight of women as being 
similar, but many of the gay men I've known, haven't been very feminist.

>of the show.  Environmentalits and Feminists might have hated the show,
>but those for homosexual rights were once again pleased by NX... didn't
>NX win some award for positive portrayal of a homosexual on television? 

Uh.. I'm confused.. is it a positive portrayal simply because the men 
stood with the men?  Or are you referring to prior characters?  Your 
argument is confusing to me.

>Well, that's my comment.

And mine..
	
-- 
;^) -Karin
keb3_ss@uhura.cc.rochester.edu
From: daq@hpfcso.FC.HP.COM (Doug Quarnstrom)
Date: Tue, 5 Jan 1993 23:23:42 GMT
Subject: Re: Why I Liked Survival of the Species
Organization: Hewlett-Packard, Fort Collins, CO, USA
Newsgroups: alt.tv.northern-exp

In alt.tv.northern-exp, pwjarman@cc.utah.edu (PARRY W. JARMAN) writes:

> I debated whether or not to get in the this discussion, but
> since no one out in NetLand seems to like this show, I thought
> I would throw in a different POV.
> 
> 1) I like the illumination of Maggie's character. The dream
> is a proverbial Rosetta Stone to understanding Maggie's
> hang-ups. Maggie masquerades as a "macho" woman <the hair, the
> plane, the sports etc> but it is an image thing--I think that
> is why "empowerment" is an issue for her. She acts like she's
> tough, but she isn't--I think she genuinely asserted herself
> --empowerment is a pop-culture buzz word for "taking charge
> of your life."  Her fight with Joel, IMHO, showed her insecurities
> clearly and was a prime example of why she is dysfunctional with
> men. I thought Joel genuinely attempted to understand and reach
> her and she pushed him away with feminist platitudes--Doesn't
> look like she is up for the goodie basket yet...:)

I agree completely.  I think her overreaction was largely due
to the fact that she was frightened by the things the dream
said about her character.


> I mean really, I think the worst show ever was Heros--or "Chris
> flings a casket"

Really?  That was the funniest thing ever.
Newsgroups: alt.tv.northern-exp
From: kimi@fang.att.com (Kimiye Tipton)
Subject: Re: 1/4 episode: YUCK
Organization: AT&T Tax Systems Development, Maitland FL
Date: Fri, 8 Jan 1993 20:33:36 GMT

In article <93008.083001IDJMW@ASUACAD.BITNET> <IDJMW@ASUACAD.BITNET>Jo Namio writes:
>Am I alone in liking this episode? I didn't LOVE it, but I did appreciate

Well, as I've said, I like it better the more I think about it.

>Best line was Chris', at the close of the show... about women using their
>intuition... does someone have the exact quote for me???

"Women use their intelligence to find reasons to support their 
intuition...  G.K. Chesterton."  Yeah, I like the quote, although 
it can be misinterpreted.

On the burial, which bothered me badly the first run-through--
I think it's disturbing because it works on many levels: the
Earth Mother reclamation; the shunning of the men and their
materialism and need to own and control; the reverence of the
women for the buried past and apology for disturbing a "grave",
the sharp division between the sexes; the distance between
men and women (peering through binoculars?!?), and Maggie 
deliberately burying those stereotypical "women's" concerns 
like having babies, cooking and sewing that bother her because
of what society (or her family, or Maggie herself) expects
of her.  I'd have felt better if there were a little aside,
like Marilyn saying "I'd like to take a picture" and Ruth-Anne
whispering, "Save a copy for me," but that's just my personal
need for concrete preservation of memories (and I don't think
a particularly male or female thing).

*DEEP breath*  How's that? :-)  Thanks to all you net people
for helping me see all of that. 

Kimiye   kimi@kokomo.att.com

Newsgroups: alt.tv.northern-exp
From: zmyd02@hou.amoco.com (Denton Meredith)
Subject: Re: The Wolf; was Re: Was it 849?
Reply-To: zmyd02@hou.amoco.com
Organization: Amoco
Date: Wed, 6 Jan 1993 17:37:54 GMT

In article 81L@fang.att.com, kimi@fang.att.com (Kimiye Tipton) writes:
>
>Okay, close enough-- the wolf was Maurice.  He sweet-talked her, then
>stole her goodies (artifacts) while she was distracted.  The wolf is
>also Joel-- in Maggie's mind, he's after some other goodies she's got,
>and that's why she blows up at him when he tries to be kind or friendly
>or concerned.  This is because no matter what's going on, when Maggie
>runs into Joel, the first thing she has to suppress is raging desire
>:-)  You know how some shows make a joke of a woman chopping a guy
>off short when he makes some advance, and the guy turns around, grins
>and says, "She wants me _bad_!"?  Well, this is supposed to be what's
>going on with Maggie.
>
>I didn't think the dream was particularly demeaning-- I loved the way
>Maggie argued with the Wolf's interpretations ("It's just a _hood_."--
>when's the last time you heard a clitoral reference on TV?!?)  Yes,
>it was Freudian, but made fun of Freud at the same time.  Maggie's
>putting a lot of energy in denying her sexual needs these days, but
>she's not stupid, so her psyche is trying to wake her up, using the
>very weapons she would refuse to let anyone else use.
>
>Kimiye   kimi@kokomo.att.com
>(see quote inside post)
>


I think this is an extremely good interpretation of the dream sequence.
Maggie feels that men treat her like a child (remember the way the wolf
talked down to her...the "soothing adult" voice for a child who just
doesn't understand), and she feels they're always trying to take away
your "goodies."

BTW, I thought she looked _great_ in the red hood and dark lipstick...
maybe I'll go shopping tonight for a red hood!!   ;-)

Meredith Denton

Newsgroups: alt.tv.northern-exp
From: woods@robohack.UUCP (Greg A. Woods)
Subject: Re: More on the January 4th show
Organization: Elegant Communications Inc.
Date: Mon, 11 Jan 93 01:44:10 GMT

In article <1ihk2tINNes9@transfer.stratus.com> rfw@silvan.hw.stratus.com (Bob Wambach) writes:
> 1) The camera work in the Little Red Riding Hood scene was stunning.  The
> final scene, filling the excavation site, was also beautifully filmed.

W.r.t. Maggie's dream walk with the Wolf -- Indeed!  I was paying so
much attention to the visual effect that I missed some of the dialogue!

As for the final scene of the ladies filling the execavation site:  I
felt that although it tied together nicely with the long shots; and the
medium frontal shot of the men worked nicely [crane shot, or just
aspect of the geography?], together with the way the close-ups were
edited in; but the angles of many of the medium and medium-close-up
shots of the women made me un-easy.  It left me with a feeling they
were trying to hide something from the viewer's eye.  Compared to
earlier shots done when the excavation was well underway, I didn't
even feel as if I was in the same location!

Was I dreaming, or did it seem a bit foggy over in front of Maggie's
cabin, while beautiful evening sun lit the men?  I wonder if this was
intentional, or a facet of filming at different times of day.

Bob, are you a {cinema,photo,video}grapher?  Pro or amateur?  I'm an
amateur all-of-the-above, and I was intrigued by your comment.  I draw
a lot of blank looks from folks when I make remarks about the visual
aspects of television or film [eg. angles, framing, motion, lighting,
editing, etc.], and it seems anyone who will make similar remarks will
have creative interests in the visual arts....

> 2)  I  don't  particularly  miss  the  general absence of kids in NX, but I
> thought Brad helped to make this a cool episode.  Brad wasn't  conjured  up
> out  of wild dreams, [....]

I most certainly agree, though I was surprised by his honesty and lack
of brashness (not that he wasn't bold!).

> 4)  My favorite one liner:  Holling to Brad, "Sometimes, love will pick you
> up by the short hairs, Brad..." I'll bet many viewers did not "pick up"  on
> that one!

Ha!  Yup, I was actually surprised by that one!  Perfectly in
character for Holling though.
-- 
						Greg A. Woods

woods@robohack.UUCP, woods@Elegant.COM  VE3TCP	UniForum Canada & ECI
+1 416 443-1734 [home] +1 416 362-XRSA [work]	Toronto, Ontario; CANADA
From: benwood@carson.u.washington.edu (Ben Henwood)
Newsgroups: alt.tv.northern-exp
Subject: Re: The Wolf; was Re: Was it 849?
Date: 7 Jan 1993 22:30:44 GMT
Organization: University of Washington
NNTP-Posting-Host: carson.u.washington.edu

m4safran@student.business.uwo.ca (Melissa Safran) writes:

>RAE2@psuvm.psu.edu writes:

>> Oh: Chris's voice has also been heard (but not confirmed) on radio ads
>> for the commonwealth of Pennsylvania. What next?
>> 
>I'm not positive but I think that Chris' voice is also doing Nescafe 
>commericals on the radio in Ontario (or maybe English Canada in total).  
>It sounds like his style of poetic rambling (but in a good way) but I 
>only hear it in my car so it's hard to tell if it's really him or if it's 
>someone trying to sound like him.

I don't know if this has been mentioned a zillion times already,
but Chris also does Black Star Beer commercials here in the 
Northwest -- it's a new brew from Portland.  During this week's
NExp they had a spot.  They're pretty funny commercials, as
they give a fictional history of the beer.

Ben Henwood

APL/UW
Seattle

benwood@u.washington.edu
From: vanover@bcsaic.boeing.com (Jann VanOver)
Newsgroups: alt.tv.northern-exp
Subject: Anybody here?
Date: 11 Jan 93 22:40:51 GMT
Organization: Boeing Computer Services, Seattle

I NEVER see anything on this newsgroup.  Is anyone here?
Newsgroups: alt.tv.northern-exp
From: dianem@boi.hp.com (Diane Mathews)
Subject: Re: 1/4 episode: YUCK
Date: Wed, 6 Jan 1993 21:19:42 GMT
Distribution: na
Organization: Hewlett-Packard / Boise, Idaho

>> > I disagree.  I think that Maggie really hates all men and needs to find
>> > new ways and excuses to do so.  It wasn't really about feminism, it was
>> > just another cloak she tried on for a while.  I really like Maggie's
>> > character, but I would run the other way if I ever met someone like her.
>> How can you say that Maggie doesn't like men after all of the icky stuff 
>> she's done with Mike this season?  What about the episode last year with 
>> the bear/man?  What about all of her ex-boyfriends?
>I'm not positive about this, but I think that she just used her ex-boyfriends
>for self gratification and always resented them.  Look at the conversations
>she had with them in this season's opener.  She had major difficulties with
>each one, emotionally.  It's also possible that her ex-boyfriends drove her
>to her current state of man-hating.

Now suppose, as some other folk do, that the show is seen all through the eyes
of Joel.  That would mean that he sees Maggie as using men for self-
gratification, and that she really despises them.  Maybe he sees her as a
rabid feminist.  That would be consistent w/ my impression of Joel, to date.

Newsgroups: alt.tv.northern-exp
From: WVOSS@novell.com (Wes Voss)
Subject: Re: Joel's Red Shirt
Organization: Novell, Inc.
Date: Mon, 4 Jan 1993 21:50:05 GMT

In article <1993Jan4.143054.9641@iscsvax.uni.edu> wiles@iscsvax.uni.edu writes:
>From: wiles@iscsvax.uni.edu
>Subject: Joel's Red Shirt
>Date: 4 Jan 93 14:30:54 -0600
>Does anyone know where a person can buy or mail order a red button down
>casual/dress shirt like Dr. Fleischman wears almost constantly on the show? 
>I've checked department stores around Illinois and Iowa, but no traces of such
>a color.  Any help out there for me?
>
>Also, a semi-beginner's question--What is a GIF?  Thanks, Happy new year to
>all.

Try Lands' End. They have just about everything.... Anyone have a number?

Also a GIF is basically a picture file (image file) that was somehow created 
or copyrighted or something from Compuserve... You need viewers to be able 
to display the pictures...

Wes

--------------------------------------------------
Wes Voss
Internet: wvoss@novell.com
Standard Disclaimer: Yeah, these are my opinions,
and no one elses... You know the rest...
--------------------------------------------------
From: jld7@jaguar.uofs.edu
Newsgroups: alt.tv.northern-exp
Subject: An open thank you to all who emailed me!
Date: 12 Jan 93 00:33:40 GMT
Organization: University of Scranton

A couple days ago, I posted something in the newsgroup in reference to
someone's question (sorry that I've momentarily forgotten the name of the
original poster) who asked fellow netters to respond.  The question was about
what future archealogists would think of what we will leave behind as artifacts.
I apologized for not knowing how to include the original author's response in
my own post for those who may have missed it the first time around.  Well,
surprisingly enough, more people have personally replied to me via mail about
this than the original purpose for writing.  I wanted to individually thank,
and even did thank some, but it started getting ridiculous when I had 25
messages all about the same thing!  Yes, I love email as much as the next
guy/girl, but I had to draw the line when it started to doing nasty things to
my quota. :)
Since I can't thank everyone individually, here, more or less is what I said:
Thank you for replying, I appreciate that you tried to help me, etc. etc.
When I first posted that a couple days ago, I had no idea that there was such
variety in the kinds of usernets out there.  Live and learn.  You see, I had to
get my account as an assignment for my computer lit. class.  We were supposed
to have two classes to teach us how to use the network, and even now, I still
don't understand how they thought everything could be taught in a couple days. 
The first class was spent logging everyone in, and we learned the minimal
basics.  The second class, which we were supposed to learn about the news
feature was cancelled because of snow.  So you see, everything I'm learning
really is through trial and error because I know next to nothing about it. 
(Although this hasn't stopped me from making a fool out of myself before, and
probably won't again.)  Some have asked if I know the kind of usersystem (or
something like that), and in answer to those questions, I unfortunately do not.   
Others have asked if I know how to access commands, and sadly the answer is no. 
I appreciate your interest in trying to help and explaining this t ome a little
more.  Hey maybe by the time I graduate, I'll know what I'm doing!  
BTW, most of my classmates have not kept up with their accounts, but I like it.  
I haven't heard such good discussions about my favorite TV show in a long time!  
And no one else I know watches, although I've tried to convert them.
Well, that's all until probably the next episode tonight; let's hope I get it
right this time! :)
Thanks again,
Jennifer
Newsgroups: alt.tv.northern-exp
From: smorine@nyx.cs.du.edu (Suzanne Morine)
Subject: Re: 1/4 episode: YUCK
Organization: University of Denver, Dept. of Math & Comp. Sci.
Date: Tue, 12 Jan 93 23:44:44 GMT

mark.schumann@pcohio.wariat.org (Mark Schumann)  writes:
[I wrote:]
>!Joel's
>!coming out to tell Marilyn to get a file (and then interpreting their
>!looking at him without moving as their being somehow domineering),

>I don't think he found it "domineering."  More like "accusatory."
>His face bore an expression of "What?  What did I do?"

At first he did, but then he said, as if he were getting wise to a
scheme, "No.  No.  I am not going to be <something> out of my own office.
No."  And he went back to his consulting room.  It was as if he figured
they were trying to take over -- somehow!  Made me laugh.

--
--Suzanne Morine          smorine@nyx.cs.du.edu
--"It is wonderful how much time good people spend fighting the devil.  If
--they would only expend the same amount of energy loving their fellow men,
--the devil would die in his own tracks of ennui."     Helen Keller
Newsgroups: alt.tv.northern-exp
From: H. Nunes <hwnunes@leland.stanford.edu>
Subject: Re: January 4th Episode
X-Xxmessage-Id: <A76F428D3A0700F0@naranja-pc-175.stanford.edu>
X-Xxdate: Tue, 5 Jan 93 13:50:05 GMT
Organization: CaveMakers, Inc.
X-Useragent: Nuntius v1.1.1d17
Date: Tue, 5 Jan 93 21:50:06 GMT

In article <rizzoe.616.726244287@FASECON.ECON.NYU.EDU> Emily Rizzo,
rizzoe@FASECON.ECON.NYU.EDU writes:
>Finally, I was troubled by the fact that Maurice made an anti-gay comment
>to Maggie and went unchallenged.  In previous episodes, I'm thinking of 
>Chris's trial in particular, he has always been called to account for 
>such bigotry.  Two cheers to Northern Exposure for showing gay characters
>in non-stereotyped professions but they should have gone all the way and
>had Maggie challenge Maurice's bigotry rather than let in slide.

I wasn't surprised when he went unchallenged because he usually isn't. 
Even when Bernard talked back to him, it just came around to that Bernard
is also a biggot.

If you want a really obscure reasons why Maggie didn't talk back to
Maurice, well, first she wasn't empowered yet.  Second, she is an
employer of Maurice, as he pays her for Joel's cabin... so he is her boss.

I was glad that he did make the anti-gay comment, because if he didn't,
it would have been SO OUT OF CHARACTER!!!

As for the gay guys, it was interesting how they were included with the
men, and how they stood with Joel, Maurice, Holling, and Chris at the end
of the show.  Environmentalits and Feminists might have hated the show,
but those for homosexual rights were once again pleased by NX... didn't
NX win some award for positive portrayal of a homosexual on television? 
Well, that's my comment.
Newsgroups: alt.tv.northern-exp