HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: afsar@iscnvx.lmsc.lockheed.com (Haji Firoz)
Subject: Re: Belt test and injury
Organization: Lockheed Missiles and Space Co.
X-Newsreader: Tin 1.1 PL4
Date: Mon, 14 Dec 92 22:34:35 GMT

How did you brake your fingers?. Did you spar with open hands or you did not
close your fist?. I hope you do not brake any more fingers. If you get in to
a real situation then you will be in a real trouble braking fingers. I would
say try to protect your body first before sparring.
If you do not feel testing then you can test again. Do not worry so much about
passing the next level test you can always do it again. 
Good luck
Haji

Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
From: cyeomans@ms.uky.edu (Charles Yeomans)
Subject: Re: Agreed: rec.martial-arts hierarchy
Date: Mon, 21 Dec 1992 02:53:04 GMT
Organization: University Of Kentucky, Dept. of Math Sciences

In article <BzJIMI.JHJ@usenet.ucs.indiana.edu> shulick@navajo.ucs.indiana.edu writes:
>
>I think we should really break up this group.  martial arts as a term is
>so general.  hapkido, judo, 200 types of karate, gun-fu, PCP-fu.. :)
>
>This is just a little suggestion, no need to flame. :)
>

What do you mean, "we", white ?     I believe USENET has a protocol
for the formation of new newsgroups.  Have at it!

CHarles YEomans
From: stark@dwovax.enet.dec.com (Todd I. Stark)
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
Subject: Re: strangleholds, length of time to work, and which are dangerous.
Summary: Instant effect is probably a different mechanism, less reliable.
Date: 11 Dec 92 20:44:40 GMT
Organization: Digital Equipment Corporation
NNTP-Posting-Host: DWOVAX


taddiken@ms.uky.edu (scott taddiken) writes...

>But the effect has certainly never been instant, and I've been
>strangled by some of the best.

>I'd like to ask a little more about this "thump" to the neck which knocks a 
>person unconcious.  The explanation that was given was that the blood backs up
>and then bangs into the brain, knocking him out.  Well, if that were the case,
>then wouldn't I pass out some of the time when I managed to evade a powerful
>"poke choke" just in time (in judo competition)?  I don't doubt that one might
>knock an opponent unconcious with a strike to the neck, especially if some of
>y'all have done it, but this business about it being a quarter-second strangle
>seems unlikely.

I've seen this, seemingly either a wave of blood pressure rise or a wave of 
blood pressure drop (or maybe the effect is caused by the differential ?) 
cause virtually instantaneous effect on the state of consciousness.  Not
always unconsciousness, but a definite effect.  I can't explain why it isn't 
seen in poking strangles you've experienced, other than to suggest that they 
probably don't affect both sides of the next in the same way at one time, or 
that they don't tend to hit right on the carotid sinuses at the same time,
or directly on the arteries in a way that kinks them up momentarily and 
causes this 'wave' or whatever it is that causes this effect.

It isn't a completely reliable effect, either.  I used to try to demonstrate
it deliberately in seminars and had at best maybe a 50% success rate.
I don't know whether this can be attributed to individual tolerance differences
to blood pressure variations, or to anatomical differences or my inability
to locate the right spots accurately.   

>----------------------------------------------------------------------------
>Scott Taddiken, University of Kentucky

							kind regards,

							todd
+-----------------------------------------------------------------------------+
| Todd I. Stark				  stark@dwovax.enet.dec.com           |
| Digital Equipment Corporation		             (215) 354-1273           |
| Philadelphia, Pa. USA                                                       |
|  "I'm in a hurry, I don't know why.  All I really gotta do is live and die" |
+-----------------------------------------------------------------------------+
From: wrat@unisql.UUCP (wharfie)
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
Subject: Time to achieve rank
Date: 11 Dec 92 21:29:41 GMT
Organization: UniSQL, Inc., Austin, Texas, USA

In article <1992Dec10.163217.2910@walter.cray.com> radner@cray.com (Lauren Radner) writes:
>Time to achieve rank is irrelevent and I know you know it. If this were

	Is there any one else (besides me) who feels that the rank
someone's earned in the system they study is a good indication of 
the real progress made?  By which I mean that a certain rank truly reflects
at least a certain level of understanding?  

	I've said that I consider "real progress" to be understanding
the principles.  I'm talking about that in this sense:

	Almost everyone who's been through a driver's education course
knows that when the car fishtails you turn the wheels in the direction
of the skid and get off the pedals.  But only someone who's been in a skid
a few times really KNOWS this: the person who just knows this principle
will probably panic and loose it, while the person who KNOWS will react
correctly _without_ _concious_ _thought_.  

	I feel that this level can be reached in judo more quickly than
in other grappling arts, such as aikido.  This is a Good Thing for a beginner.
From: gints@prophet.esd.sgi.com (Gints Klimanis)
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
Subject: Re: Kenpo
Date: 15 Dec 1992 22:19:26 GMT
Organization: Silicon Graphics, Inc.
Distribution: world
NNTP-Posting-Host: prophet.esd.sgi.com

In article <1992Dec15.134658.2907@gacvx2.gac.edu>,
croberts@next-1.gac.edu (Christopher J Roberts) writes:
|> A local gym recently began to offer classes on Kenpo.
|> My question is "What exactly is it?  I was told it was
|> a Korean style of karate but other than that I am ignorant.
|> Any information would be greatly appreciated.  Feel free to
|> email me or to post.

Kenpo has split into at least 3 branches in its path from over from
China to US via Hawaii, where William Chow taught.  Ed Parker was a
student of Chow.  Ed Parker style Kenpo karate fuels a lot of commercial
kickboxing.  Sam Brown brought over Ken Ju Bo Ai kenpo, which split into
Go Shin Jutsu Kenpo  This style is pokes, punches and rips with max
groundfighting.  Quite brutal.  I have also heard that one instructor
mutated Kenpo and renamed his style Kempo.
From: jmeyers@ecst.csuchico.edu (Jeff Meyers)
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
Subject: Re: Aikido Question (not a poll)
Date: 11 Dec 92 22:17:25 GMT
Distribution: na
Organization: California State University, Chico
NNTP-Posting-Host: psycho.ecst.csuchico.edu

In article <Bz42pr.oK@ecf.toronto.edu> tongl@ecf.toronto.edu (TONG LARRY HIGH YOUNG) writes:

< portions deleted >

>NS is highly athletic and uncooperative as well. It is then tempting to change
>the rules and overcome the NS using more advanced techniques (rather than the 
>one being practiced) OR some MAs have even suggested using a strike! 

< more deleted... >

>But "smacking" or striking the NS to accomplish a technique is NOT OKAY, as
>the purpose of the lesson was, say, a particular grapple, and so there is no
>justification for a hit.

I would have to disagree here - at least in part.  I think using a strike
(smack, whack, whatever) is valid.  If you are practicing one specific
technique and the uki goes along with it, then fine - no strike needed.
However, if the person is resisting, a strike to distract is one of the best
ways to get that specific technique to work.  Otherwise, you would have to
change techniques to fit how the person is resisting.

This is not a smack out of anger or frustration (ok, it could be but shouldn't)
but merely a distraction to facilitate the initial technique.  Usually when
a new student sees that you have an option for the resisting situation, they
will understand that resisting doesn't help and will stop.

-- 
============================================================================
| Jeff Meyers      |  jmeyers@ecst.csuchico.edu      | 39x43'N  121x48'W   |
| Chico, Ca 95926  |  KD6DIS@KE6LW.#NOCAL.CA.USA.NA  | Grid: CN80-CM99 ??  |
============================================================================
From: sog@craycos.com (Steve Gombosi)
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
Subject: Re: Sternum strike vs. Solar plexus
Date: 13 Dec 92 19:04:18 GMT
Organization: Cray Computer Corporation

In article <Bz7CvK.BMB@usenet.ucs.indiana.edu> burdickd@silver.ucs.indiana.edu (Dakin Burdick) writes:
>Mary mentioned a sternum strike as a good defensive move, and this
>suddenly reminded me of a possible topic.  A lot of the USTU people
>that I've met prefer to strike the sternum rather than the solar
>plexus, claiming that it is a more effective self-defense move.  I
>disagree.  
>
>To my mind, the solar plexus is a much better target.  If you
>strike straight in, you knock their wind out.  If you strike
>downwards, you cause them to vomit (according to George Dillman).
>If you strike upwards, you have a very dangerous heart knockout
>(check out Ernst Jokl's book on Boxing's medical aspects).  
>

Exactly where do you strike when you do a "sternum strike"? We punch for
the xyphoid process (also known as the "ensiform appendix"), at the very 
bottom of the sternum. I believe this point is considerably more vulnerable 
than, say, the middle of the sternum - especially since it is only connected
to the rest of the sternum by cartilage until about age forty (according to my 
copy of _Gray's_Anatomy_). This should make it somewhat easier to detach
with a sharp blow. Since the diaphragm is attached to the ensiform appendix,
one would think that detaching it would interfere with respiration ;-). 

Striking higher on the sternum wouldn't be likely to break much of anything,
IMHO, since the ribs would tend to act as "shock absorbers".
>Ever since then, she has emphasized the solar plexus as a target.
>
>Another reason I'm unconvinced about the usefulness of the sternum
>as a target is that when I was taking Tae-kyun, we routinely struck
>to the sternum (full power palm heel strikes) because it was 
>practice, not real-life.  Our instructor made it a point to tell
>us to strike to the solar plexus on the street.
>
>I guess the whole question comes down to efficiency of technique.
>A self-defense technique should work on someone twice your size.
>A sternum strike does not, so I don't think it is a self-defense
>technique.

Consider the case of an assailant with a *really* well developed set
of abdominals, or one with (as Lovret-sensei puts it) "a well defined
center of gravity." Striking such a person in the solar plexus may well
be ineffective, since the intervening tissue may completely absorb the
force of the blow. There is no such protective layer over the ensiform
appendix/xyphoid process - even highly developed competitive bodybuilders
have no muscle lying over this area. It lies low enough on the chest that
even Arnold Schwarzennegar's pectorals wouldn't obstruct a clean shot.

To be sure, a hard shot to the solar plexus will put 99.99% of the population
out of action - perhaps permanently (especially if you whack them when the
abdominals are relaxed). It's that .01% that bothers me:

	Excuse me, Mr. Mugger, but would you please take your shirt off
	before you try to kill me so I know where to hit you?

I don't think so...;-)

Steve
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
From: bburgar@cix.compulink.co.uk (Bill Burgar)
Subject: Re: Bullet catching?
Reply-To: bburgar@cix.compulink.co.uk
Date: Fri, 11 Dec 1992 19:13:00 +0000

In article <kjell-091292100605@g0-mac3.ekti.chalmers.se> kjell@emke.chalmers.se (Kjell Siimon) writes:
>A while ago I saw a film called "Enter the dragon". In this film there was
>a bloke who stopped a bullet with his teeth.
>
>I+m not a MA-exercicer my self, so I would like to know what style I should
>start practicing to be able to do this. I would apreciate any training
>suggestions on the matter as well.
>
>P.S. My roommate at work (he trains Kyokushinkai karate), says that the
>reason that he can't do this is that he don't has the little gap between
>his front teeth that is necessary.
>
>P.P.S. I also would like to crack nuts under my arms. What nuts are the
>best?
>
>
>Kjell the Brave


It's really very simple, as long as the bullet isn't coming out of a
gun. The technique is rather similar to the old party trick of throwing
peanuts in the and catching them in your mouth.


One word of warning tho' - don't swallow the bullets, they hurt like
hell on the way out and could crack the porcelain! ;-)


Bill Burgar.


PS coconuts!


Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
From: wallace@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (Ranger)
Subject: Need info about japan
Organization: University of Illinois at Urbana
Date: Mon, 14 Dec 1992 17:38:59 GMT

I need info on who I can learn MA in Japan?  If really need this info no later
then December 19.  I would like to thank you  in advance.

-- 
**************************************************************************
**    " Life, Librerty, and the slight delay persuit of happiness."     **
**                                             Matthew Wallace, 1988.   **
**************************************************************************
From: t6mx@vax5.cit.cornell.edu
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
Subject: need help in north VA - dojo/train
Date: 12 Dec 92 00:29:40 EST
Distribution: rec
Organization: Cornell University

Need help finding dojo in Northern VA.

Live in Manassas, work in Fairfax.

Also need training partner... karate, tae kwon doe , self defense, aikido

Please contact me if you can help.
Brown belt level...

Ed Landgraf
8275 Vernon St
Manassas VA 22110

703-267-3310 (W)
703-361-8416 (H)
703-866-8552 (Page)

REally need to get back into training since moving...

Thanks,
Ed

Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
From: rjk@iastate.edu (Jeff Kraemer)
Subject: Re: Please list hapkido belts and stages
Organization: Iowa State University, Ames, IA
Date: Sun, 13 Dec 1992 17:44:44 GMT

In article <Bz6G0D.DEI@usenet.ucs.indiana.edu> shulick@navajo.ucs.indiana.edu writes:
>
>Could someone please post a list (in the right order, of course) of
>belts in hapkido?  And please list the stages that come after black
>belt.  Thanks!  And please post it.  I don't want to receive like 6 or
>10 e-mail messages all saying the same thing.  Thanks.
>
>-- 
>    // Amiga 3000   ___ \ Sam Hulick: shulick@indiana.edu (NeXTmail OK!)
>   // 68030 25 MHz /__/\ \ My opinions wear combat boots.  Or whatever.
>\\// OS 2.04       \__\/ / "Walk!  Not bloody likely.  I am going in a
> \/                     / taxi."  --George Bernard Shaw

Well Sam, got kinda bad news for you.  Most places will tend to follow
their (sp?) own order and even color of belts..... so its usually
diffrent at diffrent schools. The system used at ISU by Master Pak
(6th dan) is as follows:

white
orange
green
blue
brown
red 
black

with reccommend and decide splits in each belt.  This tends to be about
the same for most clubs, alltho some I have seen dont have red belts,
they go from brown to black, or some swap the order.  Pretty much just
need to find the school your interested in, and check that instructors
policy. Hope that helped.


-- 
rjk@iastate.edu                 

I think therefore I.......shoot, was I saying something?
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
From: tac@cs.brown.edu (Ted A. Camus)
Subject: Re: WTF + ITF = ???
Organization: Brown University Department of Computer Science
Date: Mon, 14 Dec 1992 21:52:34 GMT


[Author's name deleted to protect the innocent]

>The founder of Hapkido (Choi, Yong Sool) was the adopted son of Japanese
>GrandMaster Takeda, Sogaku.  Choi studied under Takeda in Japan from the 
>age of 9 until Takeda died in 1943.  

  Sokaku kept extremely detailed records, and Choi was never mentioned
  as a student, much less as an adopted son!  There are certainly no 
  pictures of Choi with "dad", that I have seen.  The Encyclopedia of 
  Aikido considers Choi having even met Takeda as "undocumented", to 
  put it politely.  I would not want to be the one to ask Tokimune 
  about his long lost "brother" ;-)
 
  I have a 750-page reference on Hapkido, approved by the former and
  current Presidents of the WHF, which only go so far as to state that 
  Choi was taught by Takeda and "lost his baggage on the trip back to 
  Korea; in these bags were money, and certificates proving his training 
  under Takeda" (how convenient).  


>(gleaned from Tae Kwon Do Times, March 1989)
               ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
  Ah hah!  Where else could such gobbledygook have come from ??

  Note that none of this means that hapkido is not an excellent style
  of martial arts, but this is nonsense (son, indeed! Perhaps they 
  meant to say "the adopted son of Mushashi" instead ?? ;-) --

    -- Ted --

==========================================================
  Ted Camus                          Box 1910 CS Dept 
  tac@cs.brown.edu                   Brown University
  tac@browncs.BITNET                 Providence, RI 02912
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
From: stave@apollo.hp.com (Joel H. Stave)
Subject: Looking for Jujitsu school
Date: Tue, 15 Dec 1992 16:05:34 GMT
Distribution: ne
Reply-To: stave@apollo.hp.com
Organization: Hewlett-Packard Apollo Division - Chelmsford, MA

After 12 years of TKD I'm changing styles.  From what I have
heard about it Jujitsu sounds like it may be the style I am
looking for.  Does anyone out there know of a school in the
Nashua NH to Milford NH area?  How about the Lowell MA area?

As always, any information will win my undying gratitude.

Thanks,
Joel Stave
stave@apollo.hp.com


Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
From: Frank@mindlink.bc.ca (Frank I. Reiter)
Subject: Re: science and ki
Organization: MIND LINK! - British Columbia, Canada
Date: Mon, 14 Dec 1992 19:18:40 GMT

> Peter Capell writes:
>
> Actually I only picked on physics because it raised its head in the
> previous
> post.  You're right, there was no need to single out this discipline over
> the
> other sciences.  They are all of dubious value in sum total of human
> experience.

I'm generally a lurker here, being a MA neophyte, but this has provoked me to
respond.  I've agreed with much you've written, but the sciences are
tremendously valuable - without science you would likely be far to busy
trying to maintain a subsistance level existence to study MA, and certainly
there would be no usenet, or computers, or electricity...

> You're right, I needn't have singled out physicists.  My dad was a chem.
> eng.
> and an interesting guy... unfortunately he categorically dismissed all
> things
> "eastern" as hokum.

This is certainly true of many "educated" westerners, but let's not confuse
the science with the scientists, nor even judge an entire group by the
attitudes of a portion thereof.

Have I misunderstood your "dubious value" statement?

Frank.
--
___________________________________________________________________
Frank I. Reiter                 Internet: Frank@mindlink.bc.ca
MIND LINK! Communications Corp. Surrey, British Columbia, Canada
From: diverson@phys.ksu.edu (David Iverson)
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
Subject: Re: Ki and science
Date: 14 Dec 1992 02:24:31 GMT
Organization: Kansas State University
NNTP-Posting-Host: bohr.phys.ksu.edu


>I hope you realize how true this is.  In other words, if Physics (capital p)
>doesn't have a concept in its canonical lexicon, the "thing" does not exist.
>This (to me) points most of all to the limits of Physics as a discipline.
>In other words, in terms of Physics, prior to this century, ultraviolet
>frequencies did not exist.  

Why does everyone always single out Physics and make it stand by itself in
defense of Western Science versus Eastern Mysticism?  It's ludicrous.  If
you want to understand Aikido from a scientific perspective you have to
listen to the contributions from Physics, Biology/Physiology, Psychology and
Sociology (at least).  Knowing how con-artists and magicians manipulate
people is also really handy, but that could be placed under Psychology.

I've said it before, I'll say it again:  Where did you pick up the awful
notion that Physicists want to reduce the Universe to a boring,
intellectually and emotionally dead place?  Aikido is a marvelous vehicle
for smoothly integrating the increasingly seperated disciplines in the
canonical Western university.  There is a two way interaction in which my
knowledge of science enriches my enjoyment/understanding of Aikido and my
Aikido gives meaning and context to my scientific knowledge.

How much Physics have you studied?  How much Physiology?  Have you given
science a chance?

-David Iverson

--
diverson@phys.ksu.edu
From: bp652@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Gil W. Lau)
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
Subject: Re: Realistic Escrima
Date: 18 Dec 1992 07:12:39 GMT
Organization: Case Western Reserve University, Cleveland, OH (USA)
Reply-To: bp652@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Gil W. Lau)
NNTP-Posting-Host: hela.ins.cwru.edu


In a previous article, silatman@hls.com () says:

>   All Escrima styles must eventually become double-stick
>styles. The reason is that single-stick Escrima has an
>inherent weakness. This weakness is on the side that does
>not have the stick, meaning if you carry the stick in
>your right hand, your left flank is your weakness.

That also depends on what you opponent's got and your range.
What you say is definitely true if you've only got one stick
and your opponent's got two, and you're at medium range.  You're
okay if you're at long range, and you've got the advantage at
short range.  However, this is not the case if you've got one stick
and your opponent's got a knife.  Or two.  Redondo strike...*wham!*
Defang that snake!

>   In addition, you must be able to integrate short range
>and long range with fluidity. For this, your fighting 
>stick should be midway between Serrada and Largo Mano
>length. 
>
True, training to be proficient at all ranges is crucial.
One thing, though.  Don't depend too much on weapons.  I've
seen some guys spar with armor and 5'
staffs.  One guy came in close, dropped his staff, and punched his
partner in the face!

  -- gil

Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
From: wut@acf3.NYU.EDU (Tom Wu)
Subject: Re: Bullet catching?
Organization: New York University
Date: Sun, 13 Dec 1992 03:23:00 GMT

/* acf3:rec.martial-arts / kjell@emke.chalmers.se (Kjell Siimon) /  4:13 am  Dec  9, 1992 */
A while ago I saw a film called "Enter the dragon". In this film there was
a bloke who stopped a bullet with his teeth.

I+m not a MA-exercicer my self, so I would like to know what style I should
start practicing to be able to do this. I would apreciate any training
suggestions on the matter as well.

P.S. My roommate at work (he trains Kyokushinkai karate), says that the
reason that he can't do this is that he don't has the little gap between
his front teeth that is necessary.

P.P.S. I also would like to crack nuts under my arms. What nuts are the
best?


Kjell the Brave
/* ---------- */
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
From: villard@venus.cc.hollandc.pe.ca (Excuse me sir...What does this core meltdown light mean)
Subject: The power of the mind
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41    
Organization: Holland College - Charlottetown PEI
Date: Fri, 18 Dec 1992 13:03:00 GMT

I just wanted to post something with regards to all of the discussions 
on chi and the like.  What one must remember is this, scientists agree 
that the power of the mind, if tapped, could quite logically be 
limitless.  

Now this doesn't mean that we are going to all fly or something, but 
it does mean we can all do the Kreskin thing if we trained our mind. 

Now I cannot speak entirely from experience because in the form of 
combat Jui jitsu that I received my blackbelt in was not big on the 
"spiritual side". I am not saying that it is invalid either.  The 
point is this- we were taught to control pain, this is just a small 
part of the power of the mind and spirit. If properly trained one can 
achieve incredible results, I have seen many masters in action, and I 
will never doubt the power of CHI.

Kent 
2nd Dan Jiu jitsu