HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: pankow@yoda.fsl.noaa.gov (glen pankow)
Subject: Re: SEXISM IN JAPANESE WORKPLACE!!!!
Organization: Forecast Systems Lab, NOAA, Boulder CO, USA
Date: Tue, 22 Dec 1992 03:17:06 GMT

In article <1992Dec21.105820.4725@spcvxb.spc.edu> mauritz_c@spcvxb.spc.edu
(Chris Mauritz) writes:
> In article <BzKy05.3Lz@jrd.dec.com>, doi@jrd.dec.com (Hitoshi Doi) writes:
> > In article <BzJ4Av.353@CAM.ORG>, cheung@CAM.ORG (Shirley Cheung) writes:
> > # Anyway, I wonder how long will it take to eliminate all the sexist
> > # prejudice held by the corporate society in Japan---> at least to the
> > # same degree in North American. Well, although we still have prejudice
> > # in North Amercia, we have moved quick fast recenty toward sex-equality.
> > # For instance, most of the managers are now females; we have 50% of
> > # female students in Medical and law school; 25% in engineering...etc. I
> > # wonder how long will the Japanse society take to match the same level
> > # of equality as in North America.
> > 
> > Who says equality is good?
> > Who says Japanese women want to be equal..
> 
> This was a joke, right?  I have yet to meet a Japanese woman (and I have
> met many <grin>) who does not express outrage over the situation of
> women in Japan.

And how many of those many women expressed a burning desire to embrace the
wonderful lifestyle enjoyed by so many men?  Who long to be salary(wo)men
so that they might participate in that exciting evening work?  Who are
yearning to arrive home late at night so that they can rise early next
morning to do it all over again?

The (perhaps not as many) women I've met are quite relieved to not to have to
endure that lifestyle.  As bad as the low wages and patronization are, things
could be worse.  They are for the men.

While we're bemoaning the plight of Japanese women, we might want to
consider the plight of Japanese men.  

------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Glen Pankow                       If any of my opinions should be caught or
pankow@fsl.noaa.gov               killed, the Secretary will disavow any
glen@boulder.colorado.edu         knowledge of my actions.
From: robohen@ocf.berkeley.edu (Henry Robertson)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.japan
Subject: Re: brainwashed
Date: 28 Dec 1992 03:27:27 GMT
Organization: U.C. Berkeley Open Computing Facility
NNTP-Posting-Host: tsunami.berkeley.edu


Dwight Joe says

What these events will do is to expose Japanese society, at large, to
a view of the Western mind and society that most Japanese people have
never known.  Before these magazines, the only printed source of information
about the West seems to have come from Japanese newspapers and magazines
that warp the image of the West (mainly the USA) into a society of
druggies, rapists, racists, and other unsavory characters.  The USA is
painted as a dangerous unhappy place created by the unleashing of
"subsersive" social forces like "the women's movement", "the civil rights
movement", blah blah.

Maybe, now, the Japanese will get a better balanced picture of America.
Of course, most Japanese who've actually lived in the USA for an extended
period know that the info from Japanese newspapers (in the previous
paragraph) is just crock.

about the Japanese edition of Newsweek.


Wrong.  The Japanese edition is run by an independent staff, using cuts &
pastes as suits their tastes from the English version.  Remember, Newsweek
is a business, not a scholarly journal embracing progressive values.  They
publish what their audiences want to hear, the perspective they want to see.
I have seen the English & Japanese version of Newsweek side-by-side
before.  Often, their cover stories are entirely different.  Even when
they do run the same cover story, the selection of pictures is different,
as is the content.  In either version, the perspective is mostly nationalistic
and center-right.  I'm afraid that Newsweek does give an emphasis on
druggies, rapists, racists, and other unsavory characters, to make exciting
reading, and stir up reactionary passions.  Therefore, the only difference
is that now they receive more detail about all our domestic problems.
Keep in mind, that there are issues about the US, such as the ruling class
that owns all the businesses, that Japanese media talks about, that US media
never talks about.  Conversely, we hear much more about the extent of
power of the right wing & imperialists that are still lurking in Japan.

You cannot convince me that Newsweek is pro-feminist or pro-civil rights.
Rather, they are the ones that like to put ads for cars & liquor next to
pictures of starving families in the 3rd world.  It's the same story as
before.  Japan used to borrow/steal footage from the US media, and now
they do so legitimately.

Newsgroups: soc.culture.japan
From: fester@island.COM (Mike Fester)
Subject: Re: Not a Myth at All
Organization: /usr/local/rn/organization
Date: Tue, 22 Dec 1992 17:41:03 GMT

In article <BzM42w.94M@unix.amherst.edu> jmfuchs@unix.amherst.edu (JESSE MICHAEL FUCHS) writes:
>	On the subject of whether or not the Japanese exhibit large-scale
>tendencies toward racism, I have one word for you all:
>
>	Burokamin.

There is a similar word in Japan: burakumin. However, it does not refer to a
race, rather to a class of people.

Mike
-- 
Disclaimer - Oh come on! You didn't think I was serious, did you?
Newsgroups: soc.culture.japan,alt.sex,soc.culture.usa,soc.culture.african.american,sci.electronics,misc.consumers,misc.education,misc.entrepreneurs
From: mcovingt@sdcc13.ucsd.edu (Maiko Covington)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.japan
Subject: Days of the Week in Japanese and Korean
Date: 27 Dec 92 21:55:10 GMT
Organization: University of California, San Diego


	The discussion of numbers in Chinese and Japanese has been
rather interesting. One other thing I noticed is that the way to say
days of the week is the same in Japanese and Korean (i.e. written
with the same characters, if you wrote it in characters) but is
different from Chinese. For example, "nitiyoubi" and "ilyongil" vs.
"xing1qi1ri4" etc. 
	Where did the "nitiyoubi"/"ilyongil" way of saying the days of the
week originate? 

Stupid anecdote: I was in Seoul this past winter for about a week,
very poor. So I went into a very tiny restaurant (with EXCELLENT
food, I might add! ^_^) and I managed to order and eat knowing very
little Korean (more like 'none' ^_^). But, I decided I wanted a
glass of water. So, my companion and I called the waitress and I
said 'water' in English and then 'mizu' in Japanese since I didn't
know how to say 'water' in Korean. She didn't understand. So then I
got the idea to write the character for mizu (shui3) on the napkin,
thinking she could read it. She frowned at this for a while, and
then in slow but careful English she said "Today is not Wednesday,
it's Sunday". Wow did I feel silly. ^_^
	I really would like to study Korean, tho'.

Newsgroups: soc.culture.japan
From: fester@island.COM (Mike Fester)
Subject: Re: DOES AMERICA SAY YES TO JAPAN? - Off track!!
Organization: /usr/local/rn/organization
Date: Mon, 28 Dec 1992 20:11:40 GMT

In article <1992Dec24.210950.21525@acuson.com> miklg@acuson.com (Michael Goldman ) writes:
>	At the risk of introducing some actual data into the net (against
>	the rules, I suspect):

>	Interestingly, the balance of investment is now flowing into
>	Japan.  (I.e., more US money is investing in Japan than vice
>	versa.)  There are several reasons for this unheralded
>	reversal.  On the Japanese side investors have less money, what
>	money they do have is needed to cover losses at home, their
>	investments in the US have not been universally successful so
>	they are starting to be more cautious.  On the American side,
>	Japanese prices are starting to get affordable, there has been
>	some liberalization of investment rules by Japan, a growing
>	realization of the importance of Japan's market, and Japanese
>	regulations which are actually designed to _encourage_ foreign
>	investment.  This latter is due to the realization that much of
>	the chronic trade imbalance is caused by wholly-owned
>	subsidiaries importing goods from the parent co.  With more US
>	and European cos. having wholly-owned subsidiaries in Japan,
>	the hope is this may decrease the imbalance and concomitant
>	tensions.

An interesting side-note: NHK recently reported that the only securities
firms expected to turn profits this year are foreign firms. The reason; they
were excluded from those areas where the Japanese economy has taken the greatest
hits, and concentrated on longer-term issues. The Japanese government will
now allow those foreign firms greater access to the overall Japanese securities
markets.

Mike
-- 
Disclaimer - These opinions are not so much opinions, as pearls of wisdom. Any-
one disagreeing is either a) a snivelling, whining, mentally deficient, weak
willed, inconsequential, namby pamby tool of some vaguely defined conspiracy, 
or b) my wife.
Newsgroups: soc.culture.japan,alt.sex,soc.culture.usa,soc.culture.african.american,sci.electronics,misc.consumers,misc.education,misc.entrepreneurs
From: miklg@acuson.com (Michael Goldman )
Subject: Re: DOES AMERICA SAY YES TO JAPAN? - Off track!!
Organization: Acuson; Mountain View, California
Date: Thu, 24 Dec 1992 20:48:39 GMT

fester@island.COM (Mike Fester) writes:

>In article <1992Dec21.220326.21127@chpc.org> rboudrie@chpc.org (Rob Boudrie) writes:
>>
>>>> That's part of the reason why there is less actual wealth in the US
>>>>to invest. (I don't defend the shitty savings rate of Americans,
>>>>although there is more than a casual relationship between small (or
>>>>no) paychecks and savings.)
>>>
>>
>>I think that Japanese citizens are expected to save for their retirement
>>rather than "let the gummit do it for them". 

	Which suggests that total national savings should include the
	retirement funds in each country as well as individual savings.

>However, after the Japanese have spent a larger proportion of their salary on
>food and rent, their disposable income is still not as high as ours. It is
>therefore a problem with our lack of willingness to save. 

	As is pointed out in "Trading Places", the Japanese savings rate was
	not particularly high until the govt. changed the tax laws to exempt
	a certain amount from taxes - sort of like an IRA.  I think the US
	savings rate should be modified to include the enormous pension
	funds which are enforced savings.

	Japanese personal savings are still quite high - on the order
	of $70,000 to $100,000.  However, the savings rate has dropped
	considerably the last few years, from 20% to 7.5% annually in
	1990, and 6.5% in 1991.  Further, Japanese
	personal debt now exceeds that of Americans at about $6K-$7K
	per person.  The reason for the dramatic change seems to be the
	explosion of credit cards in Japan, the high inflation and the
	slowing of growth.  Since savings usually come out of the twice
	yearly bonus, and that has declined considerably recently, from
	an average of 35% to sometimes as low as 6-10%.  Wages have not
	kept up with inflation, and so just as in the US, people are
	saving less and working longer, just to stay even.  The average
	personal income is less now than 10 years ago, after adjusting
	for inflation.


>BTW, in the 1993 World Almanac, they have a chart for taxes, total income, 
>savings rates, etc, over the last 30 odd years. While total taxes have remained
>about the same (~12.7%), savings rate has dropped 2%, since 1965.

	My 92 Almanac has US savings as a % of disposable income fluctuating
	over the past 30 years, 5.6% in 1960, 7.1% in 1965, and so on. It
	seems to have satbilized around 4.6% with a slight upward trend.

	- Michael Goldman

-- 
"History teaches us that men and nations behave wisely once they have
exhausted all other alternatives." - Abba Eban
	Disclaimer:  All views are solely my own & not the views of Acuson.
	<sun!sono!miklg>  or  [miklg@acuson.com]
From: dcroz@twics.co.jp
Newsgroups: soc.culture.japan
Subject: Not a Myth at All
Date: 25 Dec 92 11:32:36 GMT
Organization: TWICS, Tokyo, Japan

--Michiaki writes:
 
=}Most Japanese rather suffer from an inferiority complex towards Americans.
 
     Here we go again.  Keep repeating anything, no matter how silly, and many
people will eventually come to believe it.
 
=}If there is a racism among Japanese against navy servicemen, I'd assume that
=}there WAS something that converted the attitude of Japanese in Yokosuka from
=}inferiority complex to hostility or despise.
 
     Oh, *now* I see.  Japanese racism is okay because the objects thereof
deserve it.
 
=}Puke!  How sickening!
 
     And you say that my style reminds you of R.A.?  How quaint.
 
=}How much can you tell about Japanese culture from which you segregate
=}yourself?
 
     What in the world gives you the idea that I do now or have in the past
segregated myself from Japanese culture?  This is an unwarranted and false
assumption.
 
=}If someone has a biased view based on racism, that person should not whine
=}about someone else's racism.
 
     This line of reasoning has at least two fatal flaws.  
 
     Firstly, it assumes that "someone," in this case American servicemen, do
indeed have "a biased view based on racism."  A very PC assumption, but not a
reasoned argument.  You must either demonstrate it or abandon this defense.
 
     Secondly, it posits that one can *lose* a basic human right.  This seems
an odd idea to me, and I doubt that I'd get much mileage out of saying that
Japanese in the States should shut up about any and all racist discrimination
they encounter because they are not perfectly free from racism themselves.
 
     You're right, unfortunately, it is "nothing novel."  Neither is it a valid
argument, and if it seems "reasonable" to you, I'd suggest you try substituting
various other offenses for "racism" and see how it looks.
 
=}By any chance, do you have access to an account at CMU? Your style reminds me
=}of someone.
 
     Oh, how sad.  My first ad hominem argument in soc.culture.japan.  
 
     Well, I guess you got me.  You're right, I'm a jerk and you're not, so
your opinions are correct and mine not.  End of discussion.
From: ikeda@vxcrna.cern.ch (IKEDA,M./EP)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.japan
Subject: Response to a whiner...
Date: 21 Dec 92 09:46:00 GMT
Organization: European Organization for Nuclear Research, CERN
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41

In article <33832@twics.co.jp>, dcroz@twics.co.jp writes...
in response to Pascal Goguey
> 
>=}How can a guy who says: "more than 99% of Japanese are racist" be objective?
> 
>     Come again?  If I said, "More than 99% of fish spend most of their lives
>in water," you wouldn't declare me "excessive."  What is there in my statement
>that justifies your absolute presumption that it is not objective?  

Because fish "naturally" live in water.  Japanese are not innately racists.

>[some paranoid reactions deleted]

>=}At least not more than in any other country.
> 
>     I can prove to an impartial jury that it is a *lot* more than in the U.S.
>or the Philippines.  I don't know about France.

Gee, aren't you a worldly experienced person?  One who has lived in 
(wow) two other countries and can now make blanket statements that 99%
of the Japanese are racists.

>=}It is like that in any country.
> 
>     Err, sorry. . .no, it's not.

Listen, dude.  Welcome to planet earth.  It IS like that in any country
and the difference is only a matter of degree.

You cry about all those people talking behind your back.  Well sh*t, ain't
that just too bad?  Now you know what it's like for Asian Americans to be
told to go back to Taiwan, and that "we" don't want "you" here.  Now you know
how the Turks feel in Germany, or the Moroccans/Algerians feel in France.
And all your whining about these lunchtime conversations you overhear!  Frankly
I would rather be called a "dangerous Jap" (in the US) or a "chintoque"
(version francais) or a "gaijin" (in Japan) than being beaten to death by
baseball bats like what happened to Vincent Chin or fire-bombed because I
was an auslander.

The worse thing that can happen to you is that you can cry and go home to
the states muttering racist statements under your breath about the Japanese.
For the Asian Americans, Turkish Germans, Arab-French, and Korean-Japanese,
they are already home; they have no place to return to.  Think about that.

The world's full of xenophobes.  Why don't you do your share of helping to
reduce their numbers, i.e. quit whining and complaining and show that you are
made of better material than some of these Japanese racists by not being
racist yourself?

-- Makoto
From: miklg@acuson.com (Michael Goldman )
Newsgroups: soc.culture.japan
Subject: Re: SEXISM IN JAPANESE WORKPLACE!!!!
Date: 23 Dec 92 14:54:58 GMT
Organization: Acuson; Mountain View, California

torkel@sics.se (Torkel Franzen) writes:

>In article <8076@skye.ed.ac.uk> timd@ed.ac.uk (Tim Duncan) writes:

>  >Or you could look at it the *other* way round -- allow men to take paternity
>  >leave, and reduce the hours that men are "forced" to work.

>  Well, in Sweden at least, parents can divide between them as they choose
>their paid paternity/maternity leave. It isn't unusual for men to take
>paternity leave.

	California too.  4 months spread over the first 2 years at the
	discretion of the parent.  _Unpaid_ leave for both.

	- Michael Goldman

-- 
"History teaches us that men and nations behave wisely once they have
exhausted all other alternatives." - Abba Eban
	Disclaimer:  All views are solely my own & not the views of Acuson.
	<sun!sono!miklg>  or  [miklg@acuson.com]
From: nakano@suncom1.cs.shinshu-u.ac.jp (NAKANO Yasuaki)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.japan
Subject: Re: Graft/Miyazawa
Date: 22 Dec 92 08:26:30 GMT
Reply-To: nakano@suncom1.cs.shinshu-u.ac.jp (NAKANO Yasuaki)
Organization: Dept. of Information Engineering, Shinshu Univ.,500 wakasato, Nagano, Japan

I want to rectify some obvious errors.

In article <1992Dec18.095901.1959@lclark.edu> degraw@sun.lclark.edu (David Degraw) writes:
>                                                      Miyazawa, at the
>request of the president of Sagawa-kyubin, a shipping company, has
>funneled several millions of dollars to the Uyoku, to "appease" them
>and 'ensure' security for Sagawa.  However, the Japanese public knew
>that the chairman of Sagawa had strong ties to one of the most influential
>yakuza clans in Japan (i think it was Inagawa-kai).  
>It was very clear that this was a money laundering scheme.  It was
>obvious Miyazawa and Sagawa had a conflict of interest.  As a result
>Miyazawa is being pressured to resign.

If you write Takeshita, a retired prime minister, in place of Miyazawa,
you are correct. Takeshita has already resigned by the Recruit scandal,
but he has been holding power. This time, he is pressured to resign from
the parliament.

>This scandal did not have the drama of Uno's when, Uno's secretary
>took 'responsibility' by committing suicide.

Not Uno's secretary, but Takeshita's killed himself. It is said the
suicide was related to Recruit scandal or Heiwa Sogo Bank one.

Yasuaki NAKANO
Newsgroups: soc.culture.japan
From: cmort@NCoast.ORG (Christopher Morton)
Subject: Re: Where's Rikiya?
Reply-To: cmort@ncoast.org (Christopher Morton)
Organization: North Coast Public Access *NIX, Cleveland, OH
Date: Thu, 24 Dec 1992 14:44:47 GMT
Followup-To: soc.culture.japan

As quoted from <AfCGwB_00iUxM3oDQM@andrew.cmu.edu> by Rikiya Asano <ra01+@andrew.cmu.edu>:

> Mr.JFriedl writes:
> 
> .                  
> 
> >BTW, Rickey, you said you liked Prince.  I too like his music, but I wonder
> >how *you* can like it.... maybe you don't know he's BLACK!  Such a thing
> >doesn't matter to me, but then I'm not racest.....
> 
> A person would have to live in a coma not to know that Prince is Black.

Were you out long?

> More accurately, his father is Black and his mother is Italian. I have
> lived with a black American for the last five years, dude!
> 
Ah yes, the master racialist speaks.

Good going RiKKKiko-chan....

-- 
------------------------------------------------------------------  

"Well whose opinions did you THINK these were...?" 
------------------------------------------------------------------
From: yoichi@carson.u.washington.edu (Yoichi Ii)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.japan
Subject: Re: Not a Myth at All
Date: 21 Dec 92 17:44:08 GMT
Organization: University of Washington, Seattle

In article <2569@usna.NAVY.MIL> wdw@math3.sma.usna.navy.MIL (Wm. Douglas Withers -- math  FACULTY <wdw@sma.usna.navy.mil>) writes:
>[about drunk in Chinese restaurant in Gotanda] The
>restaurant personnel and my Japanese friends were all trying to persuade him
>to leave, with zero effect.  I went over to talk to him, thinking that I was
>in for a REAL test of my Japanese ability.  Hah!  I bowed and said just one
>word:  "Hajimemashite..."  Immediately he stood up and moved to another
>table!  You could almost hear the wheels turning (rather mushily) in his head.
>"Gaijin datte...shiyoo ga nai nee...."

English teaching positions in Japan has become somewhat saturated in 
recent years.  Perhaps this could bring new opportunities to foreigners
seeking a quick buck in Japan ... being a bouncer! :-)
From: yeonwook@hardy.u.washington.edu (Mark Choi)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.japan
Subject: Re: Comfort girls?
Date: 2 Jan 93 08:52:32 GMT
Article-I.D.: shelley.1i3l4gINNsnd
Organization: University of Washington, Seattle
NNTP-Posting-Host: hardy.u.washington.edu

In article <RHB.93Jan1204609@world.std.com> rhb@world.std.com (Robert H Brueckner) writes:
>In article <C072K8.3p4@ulowell.ulowell.edu> cshi@cs.ulowell.edu (Chunde Shi) writes:
>
>
>   In article <1i15rhINN90v@shelley.u.washington.edu> yeonwook@hardy.u.washington.edu (Mark Choi) writes:
>   >overseeing such military brothel operations. On the other hand, it is known
>   >for a fact that the American government didn't encourage the use of sex 
>		       ***************************************
>
>   Nosense! YOu do not need to encourage anybody to have sex. Sex was used by
>   bothj Japanese and U.S. millitary as weapon to degrade the occupied people. It was
>   physically forced in former case, it was finacailly, or dietorily forced 
>   in the later case. By " finacailly, or dietorily", I mean, in the example of 
>   occupied germany, japan, and vietnam, local people were not supplied(generated)
>    enough food, or welth, while G.I. had plentity, local young femal had to do
>   it for servival.
>------------------
>
>It can be proven that the Japanese used sex as a weapon in this case.
>If you presume also to accuse the U.S. in this way, however, you are
>guilty of a material fallacy of logic known as "post hoc ergo propter
>hoc," i.e. "after this, therefore because of this." You are assuming
>that just because prostitution did exist in the occupied countries
>that it existed *by design of the victorious forces* (not all of which
>were U.S., incidentally), which contention was not proven, merely
>stated.  Until you can find a "smoking gun" that links prostitution in
>occupied countries with a specific directive of the U.S. government or
>military, I think you would be better off leaving the debate circuit,
>at least on this issue.
>
>Say what you will, but the U.S. was not guilty of any war crimes on
>any scale commensurate with Japan during World War II. You may not
>know about this because Japanese textbooks don't like to dwell on the
>Rape of Nanking, the Bataan Death March, the "comfort girls" issue,
>etc. (And forgive me if I am incorrect in my assumption that you are
>Nihonjin; your myooji is not one I am familiar with, so I could be
>mistaken).

I agree with this, except that you should have used "forced sex slaves
or prostitutes", rather than just plain "prostitutes".

>RB
>
>-- 
>|"The truth is cruel, but it can be loved, and it makes free those who  |
>| have loved it." -- George Santayana  // Opinions expressed here, when |
>| clear and persuasive, are my own. --Rob Brueckner (rhb@world.std.com) |
>
Newsgroups: soc.culture.japan