HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: bryan@uhura1.uucp (Bryan Curnutt)
Subject: Re: Which commercial UNIX to choose for my PC ?
Reply-To: bryan%uhura1@uunet.uu.net
Organization: Stoner Associates, Inc./DREM Incorporated, Houston Texas
Date: Fri, 25 Sep 1992 05:48:44 GMT

In article <1992Sep24.130127.12079@texhrc.uucp> ak45ldp@Texaco.com (Larry D. Pyeatt) writes:
>IMHO, you should go with a good SVR4 such as Dell or (ugh!) SCO at home, and

Erm, SCO is SVR3, not SVR4.
-- 
Any opinions above are mine, and do not necessarily reflect the views of SAI.
Bryan Curnutt
bryan%uhura1@uunet.uu.net
Newsgroups: comp.unix.pc-clone.32bit,comp.unix.bsd,comp.os.linux
From: peter@ferranti.com (peter da silva)
Subject: FAS-compatible drivers
	Re: The evitable question -- MGR
Organization: Xenix Support, FICC
Date: Wed, 30 Sep 1992 19:06:55 GMT

I asked:
> Anyone working on MGR for 386BSD or Linux?

The answer was: it's there.

Side question: what mice does it use?

OK, the next question. I know Steve Nuchia is working on FAS for 386BSD. Is
there FAS or equivalent for Linux. I'd like to use one of these dumb multiport
boards...
-- 
Peter da Silva                                               `-_-'
Ferranti Intl. Ctls. Corp.                                    'U` 
Sugar Land, TX  77487-5012
+1 713 274 5180                                   Har du kramat din varg idag?
Newsgroups: comp.unix.pc-clone.32bit
From: pauls@css.itd.umich.edu (Paul Southworth)
Subject: Re: Running X and Xremote on a PC clone, do you do it? Dell comments
Organization: University of Michigan ITD Consulting and Support Services
Date: Fri, 2 Oct 1992 17:44:01 GMT

In article <BvHt7E.35y@gator.rn.com> larry@gator.rn.com (Larry Snyder) writes:
>robertb@cs.washington.edu (Robert Bedichek) writes:
>>Their fastest machine, a 66 MHz 486, won't run their own UNIX because
>>"it is too fast for UNIX."  It is amazing and disturbing to me that
>
>Hmm.  Interesting.  I've run Dell on 386/20, 386/25, 386/33, 386/40, 
>486/33 and currently on a 486/50 without any problems..

A *micro* too fast for Unix?  Har har har -- that's a good one.  I suppose
a Sun 10/41 is too fast for Unix too, eh?

Paul Southworth                    |     ftp redspread.css.itd.umich.edu
Consulting and Support Services    |        Anonymous Political Archives
Information Technology Division    |                     100% 386BSD 0.1
University of Michigan, Ann Arbor  |  Coming soon: mirror of ftp.eff.org

  <Representing myself.  Everything I say is for educational use only.>
From: iiitac@cybaswan.UUCP (Alan Cox)
Newsgroups: comp.unix.pc-clone.32bit
Subject: Re: UNIX on a PC clone
Date: 2 Oct 92 10:16:07 GMT
Organization: University College Swansea


Linux is stable, and stable enough to use in a commercial environment. You 
don't have to keep adding version upgrades to your system, and for a long
while I ran 0.96c watching 0.97 develop and never having to worry about it.
In the end I upgraded to get tcpip and file locking support when I needed it.
Im now watching 0.98 come out, but it will be a while before I upgrade
to it. At the moment the kernel changes minor version about 3 times a month,
I've had upgrades and patches to commercial stuff come in that rapidly
before now - if you make a nuisance of yourself and demand every fix on time
as it comes out. Vendors on the whole don't keep feeding you all the fixes
because its easier for them to do a major upgrade, its easier for you
to do the occasional major upgrade, and tech support can always give
you the minor upgrade you need if you phone up and say help help this
doesnt work.

My linux machine is an ax.25 and tcp/ip router over radio, it plays
a lot of rogue and nethack, and I'm doing a lot of dos emulator development
and multi-user game development on it. It's running on some thrown together
plug and play hardware (including an old mfm disk controller and for 
a while a herc card, and also for a bit no video card (I had console on
a serial line.). It does its stuff very well. I know people running 386bsd
on commercial systems too.

Alan
Newsgroups: comp.unix.pc-clone.32bit
From: foudil@npac.syr.edu (Kamal Foudil-Bey)
Subject: backup routine for msdos (to partitione disk)
Organization: Northeast Parallel Architectures Center at Syracuse University (NPAC)
Date: Mon, 28 Sep 92 11:02:11 EDT

I need a program to help me backup my system before using fdisk to reformat
my HD (in order to create a partition for bsd386). Any help would be 
greatly appreciated.

Newsgroups: comp.unix.pc-clone.32bit
From: peter@ferranti.com (peter da silva)
Subject: Re: X fascination (was Re: Attempted summary (Was Re: UNIX on a PC clone))
Organization: Xenix Support, FICC
Date: Tue, 29 Sep 1992 20:31:18 GMT

In article <pdhatchm.717595194@syzygy> pdhatchm@socs.uts.edu.au (Paul Hatchman) writes:
> I run X on a 486-50. The server rarely uses up more than 10% of CPU time.
> (Usually about 5%). The server is using less than 2MB at the moment and has 
> been running most of the day. 

> The X server plus numerous clients + manuals + libraries etc takes up about
> 30MB

> Now I dont really call this excessive .. do you?

Yes.

I have a 386/16. It probably doesn't provide 10% of a 486/50, but it's still
more than most people can afford (386SX/20 is the big seller, these days). I
have 4 MB of RAM. Now, most of these 386SX/20s support 8 MB, but that's still
1/4 the memory of the machine just for the window system! I've got a 70 MB
hard disk, which is still pretty large for a PC.

I also have a 68030/16 running a window system called Intuition. It takes up a
negligable fraction of the CPU. The intuition library takes up a part of the
512K O/S image, plus a couple of hundred K of RAM for screens and buffers.
The whole O/S and tools take up about half of a 6 MB partition, and can run
from a DS/DD 3.5" floppy.

The whole computer can be had for about $300 these days.

$300 will just about buy enough RAM to run your system.

Yes, I'd say X is Xcessive.
-- 
Peter da Silva                                               `-_-'
Ferranti Intl. Ctls. Corp.                                    'U` 
Sugar Land, TX  77487-5012
+1 713 274 5180                                   Har du kramat din varg idag?
Newsgroups: comp.unix.pc-clone.32bit
From: sdw@meaddata.com (Stephen Williams)
Subject: Re: X fascination (was Re: Attempted summary (Was Re: UNIX on a PC clone))
Organization: Mead Data Central, Dayton OH
Date: Fri, 25 Sep 1992 14:41:00 GMT

int177c@aurora.cc.monash.edu.au (Jae Won) writes:
: In article <1992Sep24.195925.23312@csx.cciw.ca> hcp@csx.cciw.ca (H.C. Pulley) writes:
...
: One thing...it is very free.....
: Another thing, it is not made by Microsoft.
: One more thing, it is nicer than Windoze anyway.
: 
: >I agree completely.  I don't understand this widespread fascination with X.  It
: >is a huge piece of software demanding great CPU and disk resources.
...
: >For those who want graphics you need only to look at the IRIS from SGI to see
: >load.
: [stuff about iris being slow thanks to X]
HP boxes flew with X.  Scrolling was amazing.  Sun boxes aren't bad
either, especially ballistic scrolling under Interviews apps.

: >Unfortunately, X has already become entrenched as a standard in the industry.  
: >I still don't understand why people want to run it on their (relatively) slow 
: >PCs.
: 
: I dunno...I like it. I have bought 4 extra megs of ram just for X and am ext-
: remely happy with it. It is a very handy package and I think lotsa thing in 
: the package were built with some thoughts in it.
: Also, X is state of the art. Do you seriously think Windows NT will be useful?

I have to agree.
A 40Mhz 386DX motherboard is less than $200, 16MB ram costs less than
$500, and with shared libraries (which Dec Ultrix still doesn't have),
most systems use very little memory for X and apps.  X, when running
normal apps, takes 1 to 3MB.  X apps with shared libraries are 30-150K.
(500K to 1.5MB without shared libraries!!!!)
A 50Mhz 486 Mother board is less than $800.
Don't believe the prices: send me money and find out.... :-)

That doesn't seem so bad to me.  Especially with the quality,
features, source code, networking, extensions, portability, etc.

Actually, I think the worst part are the bloated toolkits (MOTIF!);
the protocol and the server are fairly trim.  (The server gets big
mainly from bitmap tracking IMHO.  Backing store for 10 windows and
backround on a 1280x1024 screen with 8 or even 24 bitplanes is a huge
amount of data.  1280*1024*3 = 3,932,160 bytes for 1 image.)

Sure Windows is small and fast with 640x480x1 = 307200 bytes.

--
Stephen D. Williams  Local Internet Gateway Co.; SDW Systems 513 496-5223APager
LIG dev./sales       Internet: sdw@world.std.com CIS 76244.210@compuserve.com
OO R&D Source Dist.  By Horse: 10028 Village Tree Ct., Miamisburg, OH 45342
GNU Support          ICBM: 39 34N 85 15W I love it when a plan comes together
Newsgroups: comp.unix.pc-clone.32bit
From: robertb@cs.washington.edu (Robert Bedichek)
Subject: Running X and Xremote on a PC clone, do you do it?  Dell comments
Organization: Computer Science & Engineering, U. of Washington, Seattle
Date: Thu, 1 Oct 92 18:15:24 GMT

I would like to run X on my 386 clone at home and serve clients over a
v.32 phone connection.  I can get X from a number of places, both under
DOS (e.g., Desqview) and under various flavors of UNIX (e.g., Linus,
Dell SVR5, etc.)

With some of these it is possible to run SLIP and thus do what I want
to do (run X at home, serve clients on the other end of a phone
connection).  However I understand that X on SLIP at 9600 baud is too
slow for good interactivity.  Xremote is a protocol designed by NCD,
the maker of X terminals, to run between X terminals and clients over
phone lines.  Xremote was incorporated into the X11R5 server by MIT.

So Dell advertises a big UNIX package that seems pretty good (but no
source :-(, understandable, but I'm spoiled with GNU ware and being at
a site where we have the source to all the UNIX's that we use).  The X
is X11R5.  They say that some customers run SLIP and that they know
that Xremote is in their server.  But they don't know if it actually
works.

So I'm posting to find out what the collective wisdom of the net is on
this.

	Rob Bedichek   robertb@cs.washington.edu

Side question: what do users of Dell UNIX think of their Dell's version
of UNIX?  How is the support?  Do you think they are really committed
to the product?  A sales guy at Dell gave me the impression that their
UNIX was a minor side show, makes me wonder whether or not they will be
updating for a couple of years.  

Their fastest machine, a 66 MHz 486, won't run their own UNIX because
"it is too fast for UNIX."  It is amazing and disturbing to me that
they haven't fixed whatever timing problem they have so that their
biggest OS package can run on their highest performing machine.  I have
been a contractor for companies pushing UNIX's out the door and when we
had had a problem like that, there would be a team that would nail the
problem fairly quickly.  Does Dell contract out their OS work?  If
so, to whom?  (maybe they need some help :-)).

Newsgroups: comp.unix.pc-clone.32bit
From: bill@Celestial.COM (Bill Campbell)
Subject: Re: vi on a PC
Organization: Celestial Software, Mercer Island, WA
Date: Tue, 29 Sep 1992 15:21:34 GMT

In <1992Sep28.180644.8751@parc.xerox.com> fishkin@parc.xerox.com (Ken Fishkin) writes:

:Thanks to the many people who helped me find versions of "vi"
:which run on a PC running DOS. I also received a number of requests
:asking me to share the answers, which were:
:    1) "Elvis", available from wuarchive.wustl.edu under 
:/mirrors/mdsos/editor, or oak.oakland.edu under pub/msdos/editor
:    2) "Calvin", available from oak.oakland.edu under pub/msdos/editor
:    3) "pc-vi", available from plains.nodak.edu under /pub/pc/editors
:    4) MKS toolkit, commerically available for around $100.

The last time I looked (January) the MKS toolkit retailled for
$250 with a ``street price'' around $200.  Has the price dropped?

Bill
-- 
INTERNET:  bill@Celestial.COM   Bill Campbell; Celestial Software
UUCP:   ...!thebes!camco!bill   6641 East Mercer Way
             uunet!camco!bill   Mercer Island, WA 98040; (206) 947-5591
SPEED COSTS MONEY -- HOW FAST DO YOU WANT TO GO?
Newsgroups: comp.unix.pc-clone.32bit
From: mju@mudos.ann-arbor.mi.us (Marc Unangst)
Subject: Re: Many questions..
Date: Wed, 30 Sep 1992 02:19:45 GMT
Organization: The Programmer's Pit Stop, Ann Arbor MI

In article <BvCz9K.5Fw@gator.rn.com> larry@gator.rn.com (Larry Snyder) writes:
>Or, a 386/40 unless you plan to do a lot of math work --  

A 386DX/40 is about as fast as a 486DX/20, assuming you are leaving
floating-point math out of the benchmark.  A 486DX/33 will blow the
doors off a 386DX/40.

He also said he wanted to run X.  X, if I am not mistaken, benefits
quite a bit from the addition of a FPU.

-- 
Marc Unangst, N8VRH         | "There are two ways to solve this problem:
mju@mudos.ann-arbor.mi.us   | the hard way, and the easy way.  Let's start
                            | with the hard way."
                            |   - W. Scheider, from a Physics lecture
Newsgroups: comp.unix.pc-clone.32bit
From: shj@swl.msd.ray.com (STEPHEN JOYCE)
Subject: ieee-488 interface software
Summary: Need vendor info on ieee-488 interface sw
Keywords: ieee,488,interface,driver,unix
Organization: Raytheon Company, Tewksbury, MA
Date: Wed, 30 Sep 1992 17:50:17 GMT


I'm looking for the IEEE-488 bus interface card for
the PC unix compatible software driver. Does anyone
know of a vendor that supplies one?
  So far all I've found is that Hewlett-Packard
makes a card/driver combination but it just
runs under MS-DOS and not a Unix PC.
Newsgroups: comp.unix.pc-clone.32bit
From: drwho@iastate.edu (Greg Bentley)
Subject: boot disk for Convergent CTIX/386
Organization: Iowa State University, Ames IA
Date: Mon, 28 Sep 1992 23:28:02 GMT

I don't if anyone has ever even heard of this flavor of unix before, but
some people I know need a boot floppy for Convergent's CTIX/386.  They have
a boot tape, but for some reason need a floppy.

I'm afraid I don't have many details (version, etc.) but I do know that this
is a SysV variant.  Also, Convergent has been bought out (i.e. no longer
exists), so going to them for help is pretty much out.

If anyone knows where to get a boot floppy for this, or how to make one,
please let me know.  It will be greatly appreciated.

        Greg Bentley                             Computer Engineering
        drwho@iastate.edu                        Iowa State University

Newsgroups: comp.unix.pc-clone.32bit
From: larry@gator.rn.com (Larry Snyder)
Subject: Re: Many questions..
Organization: The Gator Conferencing System 219-289-3745 
Date: Wed, 30 Sep 1992 16:53:03 GMT

mju@mudos.ann-arbor.mi.us (Marc Unangst) writes:

>He also said he wanted to run X.  X, if I am not mistaken, benefits
>quite a bit from the addition of a FPU.

I asked this specifically, and was told no, unless the application
under X took advantage of the FPU

-- 
Larry Snyder                                    internet: larry@gator.rn.com
keeper of the Gator                                  uucp: uunet!gator!larry
From: fischer@iesd.auc.dk (Lars Peter Fischer)
Newsgroups: comp.unix.pc-clone.32bit
Subject: Re: UNIX on a PC clone
Date: 27 Sep 92 05:59:06 GMT
	<1992Sep23.052359.6059@wam.umd.edu>
	<1992Sep23.092500.827@klaava.Helsinki.FI>
	<1992Sep25.213540.22889@rosevax.rosemount.com>
Organization: Mathematics and Computer Science, Aalborg University


>>>>> "Michael" == Michael Foerster (mikef@bigbird.rosemount.com)

Michael> I was wondering if Linix or BDS386 will run DOS program, or is
Michael> it strictly Unix type executables?

There is a DOS box for Linux in the works, but nothing final yet as
far as I know.

/Lars
--
Lars Fischer, fischer@iesd.auc.dk | It takes an uncommon mind to think of
CS Dept., Aalborg Univ., DENMARK. | these things.  -- Calvin
From: kfoudil@rodan.acs.syr.edu (Foudil-Bey)
Newsgroups: comp.unix.pc-clone.32bit
Subject: bsd386 rebooting problem
Date: 28 Sep 92 23:03:40 GMT
Organization: Syracuse University

I managed to reboot my system from tiny bsd. When I get to the part
where it says remove floppy to reboot from hard drive,   the system
starts rebooting continuously without ever stabilizing. 
Any clue to what I am doing wrong.
From: scott@ryptyde.cts.com (Scott McClure)
Newsgroups: comp.unix.pc-clone.32bit
Subject: Re: DOS and Unix on one disk?
Date: 27 Sep 92 03:00:09 GMT
Organization: Ryptyde TimeSharing, San Diego, CA

ucosmo@mcl.ucsb.edu (Boris Burtin) writes:

>Everyone seems to be talking about whether to run DOS or Unix.  Is it possible
>to run both from one disk?  Granted, not at the same time, but maybe determine
>which system to run at boot time?

>--
>     - Boris
>(cosmo@cs.ucsb.edu)


Yes, it is possible.  The actual way it works depends on the Unix vendor.
For SCO, you get a boot prompt that looks something like this:               

			UNIX System V

			Boot 

			:

If you press <RETURN> at this prompt, Unix is booted.  If you type "dos"
and press <RETURN>, the system is booted from the DOS partition.
Other vendors (such as ISC/SunSoft) may require you to boot the machine
with a DOS boot floppy in drive A:, but it still works.

Hope this helps,

Scott
 
-- 
INTERNET:  scott@ryptyde.cts.com                     | "Nuke the homeless gay
ARPANET:   ryptyde!scott@nosc.mil                    |  baby whales for Jesus!"
UUCP:      {crash, nosc}!ryptyde!scott               |    - bumper sticker
Newsgroups: comp.unix.pc-clone.32bit
From: balasub@organ.cis.ohio-state.edu (Krishna Balasubramanian)
Subject: Re: UNIX on a PC clone
Originator: balasub@organ.cis.ohio-state.edu
Organization: Ohio State Computer Science
	<9210010028.47@rmkhome.UUCP>
	<1992Oct1.202105.5690@terminator.cc.umich.edu>
	<9210021514.34@rmkhome.UUCP>
Date: Sat, 3 Oct 1992 11:26:03 GMT

>>In article <9210010028.47@rmkhome.UUCP> rmk@rmkhome.UUCP (Rick Kelly) writes:
>>>Coherent is a better choice for someone who doesn't want to recompile the
>>>kernel, the compiler, and every command in the system once a week.
>>
>>Pshaw.  This is a ridiculous exaggeration and simply not true.

>Comp.os.linux can give someone that impression.  Every time gcc gets 
>upgraded, certain things seem to stop working.  Although it doesn't 
>seem to be as bad now as a few months ago.

Now the shared libraries use jump tables so binaries work with
new versions. 

>A friend of mine was running 0.12.  It seemed to run pretty well.  But
>he was never able to get X working.  I posted to the net with specific
>questions that included the type of video card nd monitor that he was
>using.  The email responses were mostly, "if you figure it out will
>you email me?".  We gave up after a week.  And both of us have set up
>X on commercial UNIX boxes.

As I recall X11 support came in after linux-0.95 so it wasn't too
likely it would work with linux-0.12.

>He tried to upgrade gcc, but he couldn't get it to compile itself.  The
>doc files that he had were sparsely written, and seemed to contain a lot
>of conflicting information.  And at that time the Linux FTP sites appeared
>to have wildly different revisions of software.

GCC has been distributed in binary form since 0.95  so I
believe your info is somewhat out of date (by 5 months or so, 
which is significant as linux has been around just twice as long?)
The GCC docs have been a subject of criticism and have been updated.

>He finally gave up, and he is now running OS/2.

>I like Linux, and I will probably set up a 386SX machine so that I can
>fool around with Linux and 386BSD.  I have more experience than he does
>with porting software, and debugging other peoples sources, and I will
>probably get things up and running in a reasonable time frame.

Perhaps if you gave this machine 640K  RAM and a 5 Meg HD you will
be able to conclude that neither OS worked -- ouch :-).

krishna



Newsgroups: comp.unix.pc-clone.32bit
From: thia@sce.carleton.ca (Yong Thia)
Subject: Solaris
Keywords: Solaris
Organization: Carleton University
Distribution: na
Date: Wed, 30 Sep 1992 15:14:12 GMT

Hi! Could someone please explain what Solaris is and where I can get
information on it. I understand is a SUN product. Is it UNIX on a PC
and what is this version different from SuUN UNIX on the workstartion.

ANy pointers will be greatly appreciated.







Newsgroups: comp.unix.pc-clone.32bit
From: mmaster@parnasus.dell.com (Michael Masterson)
Subject: Re: Running X and Xremote on a PC clone, do you do it? Dell comments
Organization: Dell Computer Co
Date: Fri, 2 Oct 1992 23:34:41 GMT

robertb@cs.washington.edu (Robert Bedichek) writes:

>Their fastest machine, a 66 MHz 486, won't run their own UNIX because
>"it is too fast for UNIX."  It is amazing and disturbing to me that
>they haven't fixed whatever timing problem they have so that their


Ouch, I wish you hadn't said that, now I'm afraid that my machine will
quit working... ya know, don't tell me it's impossible and I'm likely
to go ahead and do it... 

all kidding aside, parnasus.dell.com is running on one of our 466SE
machines, and has been rock solid, (since I quit running beta code
(grin).  Parnasus isn't the only 486/66 running Unix here, either,
our news server is a 466DE, needed to keep ahead of the volume of news
we hub for central Texas as a community service... that's just a
couple of the 66mhz systems here. So, yes, Dell Unix works fine on our
66mhz machines.

cheers.
-- 
Operated by professionals, do not try at home, see your dealer for details.
Your mileage may vary. Call before digging. Best if eaten by date on package.
Apply only to affected area. Batteries not included. Member FDIC.
Michael Masterson                                   mmaster@parnasus.dell.com
Newsgroups: comp.unix.pc-clone.32bit
From: keith@ksmith.uucp (Keith Smith)
Subject: Re: UNIX on a PC clone
Organization: Keith's Computer, Hope Mills, NC
Date: Thu, 01 Oct 92 01:10:38 GMT
Keywords: Linux, Coherent, comparisons, *_OPINIONS_* ;^)

In article <4231@svin09.info.win.tue.nl> alph@win.tue.nl writes:
>keith@ksmith.uucp (Keith Smith) writes:
>
>>Linux is great.  If you have a lot of time, and want to really roll up
>>your sleeves and build that car from scratch, AND if you are already
>>familiar with UNIX in the first place, go with LINUX.
>
>>If you just want to get a feel for a Unix like operating system, and
>>you'd like an easy installation, and one place to go with your problems
>>to get it fixed, along with some stability, and binary compatability,
>>and some reasonable documentation try Coherent.
>
>easy installation: the SLS-package
>one place to go: comp.os.linux

	Ahh,  It won't install on my 7287,  What's the phone number?
( :) :) = for the humor impaired)

>stability: (I really don't know why linux has updates, i haven't found
>	    anything wrong with it so far :-)

I like to beat them up.  I was quite able to crash linux easily at .95
and .96.  Random problems, nothing concrete, wierdness in pipes, stuff
like that.  It does work though

>compatability: you compile everything yourself, with the gcc-compiler
>	       what more do you want? You're not dealing with MS-DOS...

C'mon now.  *NO* Commercial software compatability.  If you wanna hack
LINUX is a hacker's delight.  A lot of people wanna diddle a little
code, and run some Commercial apps.

>documentation: if you print all the README's you'll be busy for the
>	       rest of the week (that's printing, the reading will take
>	       you an additional two weeks :-).

They are by no means complete.  I have an 8X11 3" binder full of Linux
stuff.  Not really what I consider documentation dreamery.  Sorry I'm
spoiled, I grew up on SCO documentation.

>
>>Keith Smith
>
>Gert-Jan Hagenaars
-- 
Keith Smith          uunet!ksmith!keith            5719 Archer Rd.
Digital Designs      BBS 1-919-423-4216            Hope Mills, NC 28348-2201
Somewhere in the Styx of North Carolina ...
Newsgroups: comp.unix.pc-clone.32bit