HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: tal@plts.uucp (Tom Limoncelli)
Subject: Re: postcard mutilations?
Organization: Tom's Box of Ahedonia
Date: Sat, 11 Apr 1992 21:53:12 GMT

In <19287@sybase.sybase.com> black@lester.sybase.com (Christina Black [Chris]) writes:

>My housemate Andy recently got back from the post office a mutilated
>shred of the "yes I'm glad to be gay" postcard he sent to Ann Landers.
>The post office says it was accidentally damaged in transit.  We suspect
>that it was homophobic vandalism.  Has anyone else had a similar
>experience?

Louis Crew (lcrew@andromeda.rutgers.edu) had "faggot" written all over
his mail once.  Since it was mail delivered to his PO box, a postal
employee must have done it.  The Postmaster General refused to give
a written appology.

You can write to him for details.  He posted about it on the net at
least once.

Tom
-- 
Tom Limoncelli -- tal@plts.uucp (play) -- tal@warren.mentorg.com (work)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: Tom Christiansen <tchrist@convex.COM>
Subject: Re: outing the stars
Originator: tchrist@pixel.convex.com
Reply-To: tchrist@convex.COM (Tom Christiansen)
Organization: CONVEX Realtime Development, Colorado Springs, CO
Date: Tue, 14 Apr 1992 20:15:18 GMT
X-Disclaimer: This message was written by a user at CONVEX Computer
              Corp. The opinions expressed are those of the user and
              not necessarily those of CONVEX.

From the keyboard of markm@ogicse.ogi.edu (Mark Morrissey):
:In article <kukfq2INNcj0@mizar.usc.edu> adolphso@mizar.usc.edu (adolphson) writes:
:Ya sure, ya betcha, Arne.  Would ya be bringin' some ludefisk to the
:con, now would ya?  Ack, but the winds are good and the fishes be runnin'.
:(believe it or not, but this could be an actual conversation in Ballard, Wa)

The conversations in Ballard, WV are similarly difficult to decode.

--tom
From: 00darentfrow@bsu-ucs.uucp
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Gay Supremecy
Date: 16 Apr 92 16:41:39 GMT

The question of the day is...
Do you believe that Gay Supremecy exsists?

I heard a quote.
"Homophobia is no worse than Gay Supremecy."

What do you think?  Is it true?  Just asking.	
	
What if we switched it?  "Gay Supremecy is no worse than Homophobia."
Does this drastically change the quote?

Or if we applied it to something else....
"Racism is no worse than Black Supremecy."

	Your insight would be appreciated.

- Don
alechi@bsu-cs.bsu.edu
From: heath@athena.cs.uga.edu (Terrance Heath)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: IS OUTING ETHICAL?
Date: 17 Apr 92 15:15:31 GMT
Organization: University of Georgia, Athens


     I have argued about outing with several people inthe gay community here, adn I have come full cirlce in how I feel about it.  I still, however, believe it my be justified in the gays of public figures who are privately gay and publicly homophobic.  In other words, I think people who privately enjoy what the gay community has to offer its membvers while publicly doing things to hurt the gay community, should have their hypocisy exposed.  Unless we can, by consensus, oust these people from our organizat


ions, our bars and our beds, outing them seems to be an effective means of exposing their hypocrisy and thus stopping them from doing further damage to the rest of us.
     Others have told me that I must consider the mode of punishment, that homophobic gays who have public support will - when exposed - be punished by that straight public for their homosexuality, rather than their hypocrisy.  However, say in the case of a politician who is privately gay and publicy anti-gay, if we do not expose them they may continue to get a majority of public support.  Some will suggests electing openly gay candidates as a solution, but in a homophobic district, an openly gay candidate


 may not likely be elected.  So what to do, other than outing?
    I'm interested in hearing how other people feel about using outing as a sort of political weapon, or about other strategies if we feel we can't ethically out people.  

    Terrance Heath
From: ry@cbnewsl.cb.att.com (ryerson.schwark)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: IS OUTING ETHICAL?
Date: 17 Apr 92 14:53:50 GMT
Article-I.D.: cbnewsl.1992Apr17.145350.13003
Organization: UNIX System Laboratories, Summit, NJ

In article <farenebt.703519960@craft.camp.clarkson.edu> farenebt@craft.camp.clarkson.edu (Big Bri) writes:
>I think the subject says it all. Personally, I think it's very unethical
>for gays to out other gays. 

For a bleeding heart liberal you haven't learned the important lesson
of shutting your mouth and opening your ears.  The issue is vastly
more convoluted than your simple analysis and strikes to the heart of
many issues facing the gay community and your volunteered opinion from
the sidelines isn't helping.  Mind you we don't necessarily object to
by-standers, but walking into our party and saying "I don't know anything
about you, but I'd like to give you my opinion" isn't likely to meet
with a friendly reception.

Why don't you spend a little time thinking about:

1) gay rights is not about right to privacy.  It is about the right
to openness.  It is about walking down main street and kissing your
lover on the corner in full view like all the strayts do.

2) Privacy implies secret implies bad.  As long as our sexuality is
something that shouldn't be talked about, we'll be something that should
be tolerated.

3) Why is it different saying "Johnny Depp likes to take it up the butt
and is queer as a three dollar bill" and "Johnny Depp likes the color
red"?  


Ry Schwark
ry@usl.com
From: gnn@wsl.dec.com (George Neville-Neil)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: Lip synching and stuff
Date: 14 Apr 92 16:49:27 GMT
Reply-To: gnn@wsl.dec.com (George Neville-Neil)
Organization: DEC Western Software Lab

In article <jgimkqo@fido.asd.sgi.com>, dauber@sgi.com (Jeff Dauber) writes:
|> 
|> Oh, and I sing along in public as well...
|> 
|> 
Did your mother tell you that if you sang at the supper table you'd have
a crazy wife ??  Mine did, and I thought this was a popular "old wives tale" but I don't know anyone outside my family who knows it.

BTW I still sing in public and at the supper table :-)

Later,
George


-- 
Why don't they just hire taller ballet dancers instead of making
them dance on their tip toes ??		M. Rochlin
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: mike@gordian.com (Michael Thomas)
Subject: Good news from La La Land
Reply-To: mike@gordian.com (Michael Thomas)
Organization: Gordian; Costa Mesa, CA
Date: Thu, 16 Apr 1992 20:18:38 GMT

  If people have not heard about this yet, the police commission in LA
has made their decision on the new Chief of Police: Willie Williams from
Philidelphia. For those who don't know, Chief Darrel Gates is one of the
most bigoted redneck bastards in the state if not the nation. Every time
I've heard him speak gives me awe and horror that this sort of person
is even a cop let alone chief of police. I don't have any specifics, but
I know that his views on LGB issues are not particularily comforting
(being behind the Orange Curtain, I actually don't pay much attention to
LA politics). Gates hemmed and hawed about the Rodney King incident which
was very incriminating (as if more proof were necessary), and the commission
"forced" him to retire. The trial for the 4 cops accused of the beating
is going to the jury in the next few days. If (when) convicted, this ought
to send a strong message to our White Hooded men in blue. 
  As a bonus, Robert Vernon, Gates bible thumping cronie has announced he
is retiring as well. He is openly homophobic as I recall, and an all around
bastard as well.
  Does anybody know anything about Willie Williams? There is no possibility
that he could be worse than Gates, but from what I've heard he may actually
be good (!?)

  Ding Dong the Bastards are Gone!
-- 


		Michael Thomas	(mike@gordian.com)
	"I don't think Bambi Eyes will get you that flame thrower..."  
		-- Hobbes to Calvin
		USnail: 20361 Irvine Ave Santa Ana Heights, Ca,	92707-5637
		PaBell: (714) 850-0205 (714) 850-0533 (fax)
Newsgroups: soc.motss,alt.homosexual,alt.politics.homosexuality,ne.motss
From: psarrisd@woods.ulowell.edu
Subject: Mike Duffy speaks @ UMassLowell
Organization: University of Lowell
Date: Wed, 8 Apr 1992 22:46:50 GMT


Mike Duffy, head of the Massachusetts Commission Against Discrimination (MCAD),
will speak at the University of MassLowell on Tuesday, April 14th. 
It will take place at 7:00 p.m. in the South Media Center, Room 222.
He will speak primarily about issues of discrimination against the gay and
lesbian community in the commonwealth.  Michael Duffy is the highest authority
on discrimination issues in Massachusetts.  He is also a founding member of the
Mass. branch of the Log Cabin Club, an organization which supports gay or
pro-gay Republican candidates for public office.

	For more information, contact 
		psarrisd@woods.ulowell.edu
From: junikka@schaefer.math.wisc.edu (Jari Junikka)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: NYQ is no more!
Date: 15 Apr 92 03:19:21 GMT
Organization: Univ. of Wisconsin Dept. of Mathematics

Anyone know how much a subscription to NYQ, I mean QW, is?
Address?

jari
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: rjwill6@PacBell.COM (Rod Williams)
Subject: Re: Opera Queens (Re: PDX con & bickering)
Organization: Pacific * Bell, San Francisco
Date: Wed, 8 Apr 1992 21:41:22 GMT

> adolphso@mizar.usc.edu (adolphson) writes:

>Oh, I see that we were arguing about two different recordings.  I have
>never heard the live recording issued by the Met Guild.  The faaaabulous
>recording I was talking about is the one Mr. Conrad mentions here.  It
>used to be available on BJR and had a blue cover.  The sound isn't all
>that bad (if you want *bad* sound, listen to the Mapleson cylinders),
>and the performance is magnificent.  Welitsch is sexy and creepy and
>no one else comes close.

Excuse me.  There are only three "a's" in faaabulous.
Or was that a *Southern* California variation?

What's that?  *Opera* Queens?  Not *Spelling* Queens?

Never mind.
-- 
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
rod williams -=- pacific bell -=- san francisco -=- rjwill6@pacbell.com
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: chrism@hpic001.mentorg.com (Chris McCabe)
Subject: Re: Too Sexy for My Love?
Originator: chrism@hpic001
Date: Wed, 08 Apr 1992 17:34:03 GMT
Organization: Mentor Graphics 
Keywords: 
Followup-To: 


In article <1992Apr7.144551.12906@fig.citib.com>, glp@fig.citib.com (Greg Parkinson) writes:

|> What I'm learning is that I shouldn't worry about being
|> <x> enough - because I am, by definition, <Greg> enough. 
|> And that's something I can be happy about and satisfied
|> with.

  Very well put.  This is what I have been trying to communicate
but haven't put it as eloquently as this.

  One caution I might add is that you don't avoid people because
they are exceptionally attractive or are noticed by everyone.  I
have found that a lot of people are very wrong about what a person
is really like when they base their opinion soley on casual observation.
  When I go out to bars in Portland, I know many people there and I
have a good time socializing with them all, so people assume that I
have this gigantic circle of friends and have done everything known to
man.  Certain people avoid me because of this, and it is usually the
people I would like to get to know!
  The fact is that I have a very small number of friends, and have
no 'group' of friends that hangs out together as a group.  I am a shy
person, so I usually only meet people that approach me first.  I am
working on it so I can meet a better variety of people, but it will
take time.
  I guess the moral of the story is :  Don't assume that the social
butterfly has enough aquaintances to be able to find their best friends
or partners.  It might be you.

  This sounds pretty sappy.  Oh well, I guess I'll just post it anyway.
Back to the lighter side...


-- 
Chris McCabe   chris_mccabe@mentorg.com
    Mentor Graphics Corporation       
(503) 685-7000 (w)   (503) 232-4250 (h)
Newsgroups: soc.motss,ca.politics
From: rhiann@milton.u.washington.edu (Sandra Hereld)
Subject: Re: Charles Turing's Untimely Death
Organization: University of Washington, Seattle
Date: Fri, 10 Apr 1992 02:50:43 GMT

Xref: sparky soc.motss:20427 ba.motss:781
Newsgroups: soc.motss,ba.motss
Subject: Dance and Campout with Cal Poly GLBU
From: jkusters@polyslo.csc.calpoly.edu (The Chrome Jester)
Date: Wed, 15 Apr 92 19:11:26 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: Cal Poly State Univ,CSC Dept,San Luis Obispo,CA 93407

[I apologize for the wide distribution for California events, but I
couldn't find a California-only distribution.  But, hey, if you're
going to be visiting California during either of the below events,
please stop by!]

Greetings!

Gays, Lesbians, and Bisexuals United (GLBU) of Cal Poly San Luis
Obispo would like to invite any an all to attend a couple of events
coming up in May.

May 16th:  The second annual Cinco De Mayo dance
           Sponsored by Gay and Lesbian Alliance of the Central Coast
           and Gays, Lesbians, and Bisexuals United, Cal Poly
           Cost is $10 at the door.

May 30th and 31st:  GLBU campout at Lopez Lake
           We have reserved several camping spots at the Lopez Lake
           recreational area.  Come on down and enjoy windsurfing,
           hiking, campfire, and other "outdoor" activities.  We only
           have room for 32 campers (8 vehicles), so if you're
           interested in joining us, please RSVP soon.  There will be
           a cost to join the campout, but this has yet to be
           determined.  It will most likely be around $5.  Bring your
           own camping equipment and food.

For more information about either of these events, please feel free to
e-mail me.

We would be very interested in having joint activities with other
local campus GLB organizations.  If you are a member (or an officer!)
of a campus GLB organization in California, let me know so we can get
some stuff going on during the Summer and the next year.

Thanks!
JOhn.
-- 
/-John A Kusters, jr.----------------------------------------------------______
| jkusters@polyslo.csc.calpoly.edu & phule@bbs.fubarsys.com              \    /
Silence keeps us all in darkness, we can't change things overnight!       \  /
But we can shed a little light, Be Political not Polite! -Romanovksy & Phillips
From: aberson@enh.nist.gov
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: RE: IS OUTING ETHICAL?
Date: 17 Apr 92 18:38:37 GMT
Organization: NIST

In a previous article, farenebt@craft.camp.clarkson.edu (Big Bri) wrote:
>In your attempt to be sarcastic you neglected to answer the question.

No I didn't. 

Clues for sale.

                                                                        __
    Sim David Aberson   Ft. Lauderdale, FL   aberson%3338.span@sdsc.edu \/
From: mara@panix.com (Mara Chibnik)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: Murdering Adonis
Date: 10 Apr 92 09:55:07 GMT
Organization: (getting there)

jns@wam.umd.edu (J. N. Shaumeyer) writes:

 >My current reading, far from socially relevant, is
 >_Thus Was Adonis Murdered_, by Sarah Caudwell.
Ah, yes.  The fact that it's current (or perhaps, by now,
recent past) didn't have anything to do with my (er)
emphatic suggestion that you move it to the top of
your "to read" pile, did it?

 >In view of the fact that it's a crime novel, and that
 >I'm at the midpoint, I can't say just how much motss
 >relevance it has; so far, g/l topics are not
 >*invisible*, nor are they so far sensationalized.

They're there.  Not much in the book is sensationalized.  
I don't think it's possible to sensationalize in that 
particular tone of voice, which is one of the things I 
like about it.

 >Anyway, there are passages in the book that were too
 >good simply to pass by without record:

 >  [The protagonist, Julia, is thinking of Ned, soon
 >	to be late, and his travelling companion Kenneth:]
 > [passage deleted]

I started by assuming that Ned and Kenneth were an item (not
just traveling companions).  I'm not going to tell you whether or
not I needed to adjust the assumption because it might spoil
something for somebody.

I should mention that Julia is obviously also taken with a young
woman, who is rather taken with her.  Nothing seems to come of
this, but the suggestion is made quite directly and it's not
a notion that gives any of the characters any trouble.  Indeed, the
Major (who is not a particularly sympathetic character) is the only
character in the book who expresses any homophobic sentiments (those
that Jeff quoted).

Delicious reading, for those mysteriously inclined.  
-- 

  Mara Chibnik
  mara@panix.com                Life is too important to be taken seriously.
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: carlson@ab24.larc.nasa.gov (Ann Carlson)
Subject: Re: silliness on a thursday
Organization: NASA Langley Research Center, Hampton, VA  USA
Date: Fri, 10 Apr 1992 18:40:07 GMT

In article <1992Apr9.235237.20906@spdcc.com>, dyer@spdcc.com (Steve Dyer) writes:
|> In article <jbhdoa0@fido.asd.sgi.com> dauber@sgi.com (Jeff Dauber) writes:
|> >Angry thought for the day:  Yet another PWA says upon admitting his status
|> >"I got it through a transfusion."  Who is it today?  Arthur Ashe.  Oh well,
|> >yet another "innocent victim".  (snear when you say that).
|> 
|> I thought Arthur Ashe's press conference was the height of classiness
|> and dignity.  Is there a reason not to accept his statement that he got
|> it from a transfusion?   He did have bypass surgery twice.
|> Is AA on some list I'm unaware of that we shouldn't take him
|> at his word?
|> 

I didn't interpred Jeff's comment as being specifically against Ashe, but
more about the publicity concerning this new case.  Our newspaper article
on the day after his press conference said only a very little about Ashe
himself and how he is handling the disease, glossed over the press tactics
which forced him to go public, but talked *a lot* about the means of 
transmission and how they were sure that he *must* have gotten it from the
blood transfusions.  Without specifically saying so, I got the impression
that the reported thought that there are acceptable and not-so-acceptable
means of contracting the virus and that he wanted his readership to know
that Ashe was *ok*.  I was offended, but not by anything Ashe did or said,
just by the way the story was reported.
-- 



************************************************      
*Ann B. Carlson (carlson@ab00.larc.nasa.gov)   *       O .
*MS 366                                        *         o  _///_ //
*NASA Langley Research Center                  *          <`)=  _<<
*Hampton, VA 23665-5225                        *             \\\  \\
*(804) 864-7050                                *
************************************************
From: Furr@cup.portal.com (George Dalton Madison)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: Asimov and sexism
Date: 9 Apr 92 01:33:24 GMT
  <92088.113847IO81409@MAINE.MAINE.EDU> 
  <1992Apr3.181340.17432@rlgvax.Reston.ICL.COM>
  <1992Apr7.174307.39120@kuhub.cc.ukans.edu>
Distribution: na
Organization: The Portal System (TM)

Kathryn Huxtable writes:
>At least he's been quite outspokenly feminist (and
>pro-choice---imagine Heinlein pro-choice!) in his
>non-fiction for awhile now.  I assumed it was Janet's
>influence....

Not to mention pro-gay.  In one of his essays on overpopulation,
he remarked that gay people, as a segment of the population that
neither reproduce madly *nor harms anyone*, should hardly be
discriminated against in any way.

And I have to disagree somewhat with the response to his writing,
though I have to concede that this may be simply my male
viewpoint. Realizing that the first three books of _Foundation_
were written in the early 50's, characters like Bayta Darrel
might be seen as steps forward -- and in the more recent books,
the Mayor of Terminus was a woman (though the description was
admittedly less than flattering.)

Not perfect, no, but far ahead of any number of others.

>I still haven't quite assimilated the news of his death.

Neither have I. I'm rather surprised at the depth of the
loss I feel.
 
() We cannot go around shooting others, just because they
() have no reason to live -- or else, there'd be no TV
() Evangelists....
()      -- Judy Tenuta

-----
[George D. Madison, a/k/a Furr | 8-{)##] | NBCS:B8f+t+w-e+s+k+a!cv PIG 8/7]
[> furr@cup.portal.com <#> It's a BEAR thing -- you wouldn't understand. <]
From: anderson@macc.wisc.edu (Jess Anderson)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: John Haugh's Current Incarnation
Date: 11 Apr 92 14:55:07 GMT
Article-I.D.: macc.1992Apr11.145507.26660
Organization: Madison Academic Computing Center, UW-Madison


In article <1992Apr11.003827.23579@spdcc.com> dyer@spdcc.com
(Steve Dyer) writes:

>In article <29E5DF2E.13162@ics.uci.edu> tittle@ics.uci.edu
>(Cindy Tittle Moore) writes:

>>I *am* surprised to see this coming from JFH -- he's
>>usually a reasonable person in my experience.

Note: Of jfh's there are two.  Cindy means Johh Haugh (the
IIth), not Jack Hamilton (the one and only).

Since you mention it, I'll echo that.  When I've encountered
him in his more usual stamping grounds, computing-related
stuff, he's calm, collected, and usually extremely helpful.
Certainly not in the present incarnation on soc.motss,
though, where he's virtually raving.  It's cognitively a bit
dissonant with his reputation as one of the better Unix
weenies.

>This is God's way of punishing all of us for my disinviting
>Clay Bond from my machine.  Haugh was only reasonable when
>Bond was there to let him know when he was being an idjit.
>He's over the edge now...

My guess is he's bored with whatever he was doing, so he's
coming over here to stir up a little ruckus.  It's been
quite some time since the last visit, I think.

I was struck the other day by his referring to himself as
heterosexual.  We corresponded a bit that last time he was
around, and I could swear he told me he was bisexual.  He
was not very calm in his postings that time either, but was
a lot more so in email.  Eccentricities being something
most of us need to overlook, I rather liked him.

Clay had quite a bit of fun with him, it's true.

Computing seems to gather *such* strange people together.
Not any of *us* of course, but you know what I mean.

-- 
Jess Anderson <> Madison Academic Computing Center <> University of Wisconsin
Internet: anderson@macc.wisc.edu <-best, UUCP:{}!uwvax!macc.wisc.edu!anderson
NeXTmail w/attachments: anderson@yak.macc.wisc.edu  Bitnet: anderson@wiscmacc
Room 3130 <> 1210 West Dayton Street / Madison WI 53706 <> Phone 608/262-5888
From: anderson@macc.wisc.edu (Jess Anderson)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: Seasoned Motssers (was Re: Responding to Bigots)
Date: 9 Apr 92 14:59:58 GMT
Article-I.D.: macc.1992Apr9.145958.6131
Organization: Madison Academic Computing Center, UW-Madison


In article <1992Apr9.142915.2865@osf.org> coren@osf.org
(Robert Coren) writes:

>Jess Anderson		A complex flavor, hard to pin down. Thyme,
>			tarragon, a little mustard, a pinch of
>			cayenne, cinnamon (or maybe nutmeg?).

Don't forget the vanilla!

-- 
Jess Anderson <> Madison Academic Computing Center <> University of Wisconsin
Internet: anderson@macc.wisc.edu <-best, UUCP:{}!uwvax!macc.wisc.edu!anderson
NeXTmail w/attachments: anderson@yak.macc.wisc.edu  Bitnet: anderson@wiscmacc
Room 3130 <> 1210 West Dayton Street / Madison WI 53706 <> Phone 608/262-5888
From: max@athena.mit.edu (Max Meredith Vasilatos)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: Russ & Copyright (was Re: Asimov and sexism)
Date: 9 Apr 92 18:49:14 GMT
Article-I.D.: athena.1992Apr9.184914.7131
Distribution: na
Organization: Massachusetts Institute of Technology

ecl@cbnewsj.cb.att.com (Evelyn C. Leeper) writes:
>twpierce@amhux1.amherst.edu (Tim Pierce) writes:

>> "When It Changed," 
>Just a reminder: The story is copyrighted and should not be posted here
>without Russ's authorization.

If you care about copyrights (Max doesn't).  I wouldn't 
post it because it's too long and available elsewhere.

Max
max@athena.mit.edu