HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: rafem@gvlf7-e.gvl.unisys.com (Ralph Marrone)
Subject: Re: Great American Novel
Organization: Unisys Defense Systems, Great Valley Labs, Paoli, Pa
Distribution: usa
Date: Wed, 29 Jul 1992 15:12:11 GMT

>+-----------------------------------SubG---------------------------------------+
>I can easily see why folks might not enjoy Pynchon;  it's rigorous reading, and
>that's not always what a lad's looking for when he picks up a book.
>
>Overrated?  Possibly.  _Vineland_, _Crying of Lot 49_ and _Slow Learner_
>weren't exactly brilliant.  _GR_, however, is without doubt one of the great 
>novels in the English language and indeed in the world of literature.  And _V._ 
>is pretty good, too.
>
>-SubG
>
>

I totally agree with your assessment of _GR_.  After finishing it, I was
worried that I would never read another book that would have the same 
impact.  My fears were indeed partially warranted;  the only book since
_GR_ that skewered my interest was _Foucault's Pendulum_.  

By the way, do you think that an inverted _GR_ would subtend the arc
that _FP_ cuts?   



Regards

rafem
From: ballard@panther.adelphi.edu (Terry Ballard)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
Subject: re:Dickens vs. Twain
Date: 23 Jul 92 15:35:03 GMT
Organization: Adelphi University Swirbul Library


   I'll take Mark Twain any day of the week.  There are similarities in that 
both writers got a bad deal from movie adaptations that oversentimentalized 
their works.  However, Twain is always interesting, and Dickens, for me, is 
like extra helpings of very thick plum pudding.
   Lesser-known Twain books that I consider worth looking into are Letters 
from the Earth, Clemens of the Call (Newspaper writings from his unknown 
days in San Francisco), and Captain Stormfield's Visit to Heaven.
                
|~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~|~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~|
| Terry Ballard      |    ballard@panther.adelphi.edu           | 
| Systems Librarian  |    or ballard@auvax1.adelphi.edu         |
| Adelphi University |    Garden City, New York, 11530          | 
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*~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~*
*  "Right now I'm having amnesia and deja vu at the same time - *
*  I think I've forgotten this before."                         * 
*                                        Stephen Wright         *
*                                                               * 
* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * 
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
From: mtaranto@shearson.com (Mark Taranto)
Subject: Re: Unspoken Words
Organization: Yale CS Mail/News Gateway
Date: Wed, 29 Jul 1992 19:53:11 GMT


Francis Muir writes:

        Another mathematical one. I have never met an American wdo did not
        mispronounce Sturm-Liouville as Sturm-Louisville. It makes the
        relative positions of Math and Baseball in AmeriKult quite clear.

My experiences with this theorem is that it in fact WAS pronounced correctly,
and then quickly forgotten.  I'll agree about the relative positions of Math
and Baseball.  The USA does get SOME things right.


Mark


Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
From: kmrobert@nyx.cs.du.edu (Kevin Roberts)
Subject: Re: Great last sentences
X-Disclaimer: Nyx is a public access Unix system run by the University
	of Denver for the Denver community.  The University has neither
	control over nor responsibility for the opinions of users.
Keywords: fiction endings
Organization: Nyx, Public Access Unix at U. of Denver Math/CS dept.
Date: Tue, 21 Jul 92 23:43:46 GMT

my favorite last line? Well, I'll cheat and use the last line from a story
none of you have read ;)

I wish to be oblivious. I wish...

summed up the charectars entire feelings and situation.

kmr...
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
From: regan1016@bestsd.sdsu.edu (T. ELIZABETH HARVEY)
Subject: Re: Upton Sinclair's _The Jungle_
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.4-b1  
Organization: San Diego State University - Dept. of Redundancy Dept.
Date: Thu, 23 Jul 1992 02:45:00 GMT

In article <rauser.711503967@sfu.ca>, rauser@fraser.sfu.ca (Richard John Rauser)      writes...
>regan1016@bestsd.sdsu.edu (T. ELIZABETH HARVEY) writes:
> 
>>In article <rauser.711422749@sfu.ca>, rauser@fraser.sfu.ca (Richard John Rauser)      writes...
> 
>>But remember, the extreme melodrama of the plot may be unrealistic, but the 
>>depiction of meat-packing plants *were* realistic.  So realistic that Teddy 
>>Roosevelt supposedly gave up sausage for a least a week, and created the 
>>FDA in response to Sinclair's `expose' ...
> 
>   This is certainly true. However, where the book falls from the category
>of great literature into hack-written propaganda (quite a fall!) is by
>the fact that (a) everything (EVERYTHING) goes wrong for Juris...Sinclair
>is guilt of tipping the scales against his protagonist. The meat packing
>plants are very realistically portrayed...but the hell that Juris goes
>through is too much! Nothing goes right...everything that can possibly
>go wrong, does...no one has any sympathy for him whatsoever. The novel
>descends into an almost Kafkaesque absurdity. Even worse, (b) once Juris
>finds socialism, all his problems are gone overnight! Yech. 

Very true ... the scales are too heavily tipped.  When Juris's wife (I 
forget her name) left him and became a prostitute, I felt someone should 
either shoot the man, or put him back on the boat to Lithuinia (sic), 
because his life had turned into an utter farce ...

There is one thing I liked about the melodrama, though.  When I read the 
book for an English class, the teacher had us give a 'dramatic' exploration 
of the plot in front of the class (we had to 'become' one of the 
characters, and tell the plot from their point of view).  I tied a scarf 
around my head, attempted an Eastern European accent, and hammed it up as 
Juris's grandmother/aunt/mother-in-law/whoever, related the horrors my poor 
family endured ...  I got an 'A' and an ovation! :)

---<--<-{@ | "I believe that before all else, I am a reasonable human being,
Elizabeth  | just as you are -- or, at all events, that I must try and 
	   | become one." _A Doll's House_, Henrik Ibsen
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books,rec.humor,talk.religion.misc,sci.skeptic
From: srutt@boulder.Colorado.EDU (DNA Kaifeng)
Subject: Re: Agnostics and Athiests
Organization: University of Colorado, Boulder
Date: 24 Jul 92 04:14:33 GMT

cadams@athena.cs.uga.edu (Clark Adams) writes:

>In article <3635@blue.cis.pitt.edu.UUCP> seawasp@vm2.cis.pitt.edu (Sea Wasp) writes:
>>In article <1992Jul23.212023.1246@clarinet.com> brad@clarinet.com (Brad Templeton) writes:
>>>I think people put too fine a point on this.   Agnostics proudly stand up
>>>and say that there is no way one can know for sure, but the fact is
>>>that the vast bulk of them do not believe there is a god, and thus
>>>in my book they are athiests, (literally non-theist.)
>>
>>	Well, perhaps I'm unusual, but I put myself in the agnostic camp. I
>>say that at the moment the evidence I see would weigh more towards the 
>>conclusion that there is no "God", but any contrary evidence is welcome.
>>I see the difference between the two [in their MODERN, rather than their
>>older, definitions] as being similar to the difference between your average
>>American Catholic/Christian and a Fundamentalist.

>(Humorous Atheist-Agnotstic Jode Deleted)

>>	In other words, an agnostic is willing to read the evidence as
>>it appears; a TRUE atheist just WON'T believe, even if God Himself
>>were to come down and talk with him.
>>
>>
>>                                 Sea Wasp
>>                                   /^\
>                                    ;;;

>I think you are falling into stereotypes.  Atheism is a default position:
>the lack of belef in G/god/s.  Agnosticism is the position that the 
>existence of G/god/s (and other supernatural stuff) is unknowable (usually
>improbable).  The two positions are not mutually exclusive. Most atheists
>(at least the hundred+ that I know ) would gladly believe in a god if
>it were proven that he/she/it/them existed.  To agree with Brad, most 
>atheists are agnostics and vice versa if you take the words for their
>denotation and not their sterotypical connotation.

>THOUGHTfully Yours:
>Clark Adams
>cadams@athena.cs.uga.edu

I've long been interested in the definition of atheist and agnostic. I've 
heard a few, but I prefer this one: an atheist is one who BELIEVES that 
God does NOT exist and an agnostic is one who is simply skeptical about
the existence of God. So under this definition, only an agnostic can be
a true scientist (of thought, not necessarily profession).

                           -steve

@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@******************************************
@ email: srutt@beagle.colorado.edu @* "Nothing in biology makes sense except *
@   Dept. of Molecular, Cellular   @*  in the light of evolution."           *
@    and Developmental Biology     @*  - T. Dobzhansky                       *
@ University of Colorado, Boulder  @*                   Opinions are my own. *
@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@******************************************
 
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
From: mnemonic@eff.org (Mike Godwin)
Subject: Re: Hate Speech Okay, says the Supreme Court
Originator: mnemonic@eff.org
Organization: Electronic Frontier Foundation
Date: Sat, 25 Jul 1992 16:13:16 GMT

In article <1992Jul25.035109.19479@Princeton.EDU> egnilges@phoenix.Princeton.EDU (Ed Nilges) writes:

>Mike, fine, have it your way.  If you can't see the difference between
>the nuanced comic villain Shylock and the noble Othello, and
>consequently you can't see the difference between referring to the
>former as "usurer" and the latter as "monstrous black miscegenator",
>then we'll add anti-Semitism (or self-hatred if Posner is Jewish) to
>Judge Posner's charge sheet.  The issue is unimportant to me.

Surely one can say that Shylock is more than a mere comic villain without
implying that there's no difference between Shylock and Othello.

As for Posner in LAW AND LITERATURE, it seems unlikely that anyone other
than Ed Nilges thinks him a racist.


--Mike





-- 
Mike Godwin,     |"Of the many definitions of poetry, the   
mnemonic@eff.org | simplest is still the best: 'memorable speech.'" 
(617) 864-0665   | 
EFF, Cambridge   |                     --W.H. Auden 
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
From: mol@jyu.fi (Mika O. Latokartano)
Subject: Re: Asimov and the Decay of SF
Organization: University of Jyvaskyla, Finland
Date: Wed, 29 Jul 1992 11:46:33 GMT

In article <1992Jul28.132912.29431@sco.COM> charless@sco.COM (charles stross) writes:
>
>In article <1992Jul26.175737.17862@morrow.stanford.edu> francis@oas.stanford.edu (Francis Muir) writes:
>>
>>Joanne Eglash wrote:
>> 
>>	Can anyone recommend fiction (both by authors in previous 
>>	decades and current writers) in which the subject of science 
>>	and scientists is handled intelligently?  

>
>Oddly, I can't think of any more off the top of my head. This isn't
>because they don't exist, but because it's rare to find a 
>convincing portrayal  of scientists or the scientific process in
>fiction; most fiction writers know zip about it, and in any case
>it isn't the stuff of heroic fantasy ...

  Does Robert L. Forward (if memory serves...) qualify to this club?
  I only have one book by him, "Dragon's Egg", which was quite interesting.
  He has other books (or another book (?)) out, but the titles escape me.

>
>-- 
>Charlie Stross aka charless@scol.sco.com ..... UNIX oriented text mangler
>WARNING: The opinions voiced in the preceding electronic document are the
>product of a warped mind. Take two before meals. 

	- Mika

-- 
[  Mika O. Latokartano  Internet : mol@jyu.fi     mol@vipunen.hut.fi          ]
[  mol@puukko.hut.fi    Decnet : mol@jylk.decnet  Bitnet : mol@finjyu.bitnet  ]
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
From: mnemonic@eff.org (Mike Godwin)
Subject: Re: Spoilers - continuing discussion, part 2
Originator: mnemonic@eff.org
Organization: Electronic Frontier Foundation
Date: Sat, 25 Jul 1992 18:09:45 GMT

In article <64336@hydra.gatech.EDU> barclay@RAIL9000.gatech.edu (Barclay Blanchard) writes:

>Or maybe it was that Sophie's Choice reminded me of Fowles' The Magus
>because both were told from the POV of (as it seemed to me) intellectual snobs.

I don't recall Stingo well enough to say, but I think it's clear that
Fowles means for us to regard Nicholas D'Urfe as an unlikeable snob.
That's why he needs to be redeemed.


--Mike



-- 
Mike Godwin,     |"Of the many definitions of poetry, the   
mnemonic@eff.org | simplest is still the best: 'memorable speech.'" 
(617) 864-0665   | 
EFF, Cambridge   |                     --W.H. Auden 
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
From: rita@eff.org (Rita Marie Rouvalis)
Subject: Re: Unspoken Words
Originator: rita@eff.org
Keywords: Party games?
Organization: Electronic Frontier Foundation
Date: Thu, 30 Jul 1992 15:03:53 GMT




	h.) whenever "Rand" appears in Subject: line.
	m.) when Clayton crossposts from a .politics group


-- 
Rita Marie Rouvalis              rita@eff.org 
Electronic Frontier Foundation   | Inbred Jed sez: Check with the Mormon
155 Second Street                | Church before marrying; inbreeding 
Cambridge, MA 02141 617-864-0665 | is everyone's problem.
From: crb@doc.ic.ac.uk (Ruth)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
Subject: Re: I don't like Dickens...so sue me!
Date: 21 Jul 92 16:40:48 GMT
Organization: Imperial College London

In article <rauser.711668561@sfu.ca>, rauser@fraser.sfu.ca (Richard John Rauser) writes:
> 
> 
> 
>    As a graduate student in English lit. it sometimes bothers me that I don't
> like Dickens. After all he is, well, Dickens. I love Shakespeare, Dostoevsky,
> Swift, Twain (well, sort of), Kafka, Tolstoy, 


Weird - I love Dickens, but hate Shakespeare (also love Austen, 
Dostoyevsky, the Brontes, Lawrence, Hardy etc.  Oh, yeah - can't *STAND*
Tolstoy!!!!!!

Different tastes I guess (but I still can't understand anyone having a taste
for Shakespeare - I know, burn me at the stake as a heathen, pluck out my
eyes, but off my head............)

Ruth
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
From: dmpowell@rodan.acs.syr.edu (Darin M. Powell)
Subject: Re: Great last sentences
Organization: Syracuse University, Syracuse, NY
Date: Thu, 23 Jul 92 13:39:34 EDT

In article <+1fm8f+.dani@netcom.com> dani@netcom.com (Dani Zweig) writes:

>>>	It was the best of times, it was the worst of times, it was
>>>the age of wisdom, it was the age of foolishness, it was...

>The first issue of Discover magazine (which I failed to save) had
>an article about the then-new Writer's Workbench program.  Mostly
>as a joke, they ran this opening 'sentence' through the program,
>and got told (not surprisingly) that it was too long.  In fact,
>said the program, it appears to be a list, and would probably be
>better rendered as such:  "The times were:  the best and worst,
>the age of wisdom and foolishness..."


	He could have skipped all the bullshit and simply
	written: "Everthing was fucked up. As usual"

	Darin Powell
	etc. etc. etc.
From: ncramer@bbn.com (Nichael Cramer)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
Subject: Re: Penguin Books in Bay Area
Date: 31 Jul 92 09:49:42 GMT
Reply-To: ncramer@labs-n.bbn.com (Nichael Cramer)
Organization: Bolt Beranek and Newman Inc., Cambridge MA
NNTP-Posting-Host: bbn.com

athos@apple.com (Rick Eames) writes:

>.. I yearn for that store in Cambridge, Mass that I visited a year ago....

Sorry to bear sad tales, but so do we here in Cambridge.  It is long gone...

(although many other stores carry sizable bunches of Penguins: e.g. New
England Mobile Book Fair.)

N
Xref: sparky rec.arts.books:12974 alt.books.reviews:11
From: ccaajmf@ucl.ac.uk (John Franks)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books,alt.books.reviews
Subject: Re: RAH
Date: 24 Jul 92 16:32:27 GMT
Organization: Bloomsbury Computing Consortium, London

While RAH has come up (and by the way, sorry if I missed anything along this
line - I just spotted this group), I found a novel called "Farnham's Freehold"
in a little second-hand bookshop near me the other day, and basically, I 
thought it was among the best Heinlein I've read. But I've never seen it new, 
this was a 1967 edition (1964 first published). Any comments? It just 
intrigued me.

By the way, it starts off with a nuclear holocaust and - among other things -
a "young, pretty, intelligent female" type character - much like any of the
ones in many of his other books - dies (with her child) in child-birth. This
really surprised me. 

Comments? Thoughts?

John Franks, ccaajmf@ucl.ac.uk or jmf14@phx.cam.ac.uk to readers in Cambridge.
     "And a thousand slimy things
      Lived on; and so did I." 
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books,rec.humor,talk.religion.misc,sci.skeptic
From: rudis+@cs.cmu.edu (Rujith S DeSilva)
Subject: Re: Agnostics and Athiests
Date: Fri, 24 Jul 92 16:49:31 GMT
Organization: School of Computer Science, Carnegie Mellon

In article <1992Jul24.151332.19380@dcs.warwick.ac.uk> simon@dcs.warwick.ac.uk
(Simon Clippingdale) writes:
>I have no evidence either way that the universe was or wasn't created by a
>19-dimensional divine blue banana.  Do I reserve judgement and pronounce
>myself an agnostic (I don't believe that a 19-D DBB created the universe), or
>do I stick my neck out and pronouce myself an abananaist (I believe that a
>19-D DBB didn't create the universe)?  How small does the estimated
>probability of a theory being true have to get before one comes right out and
>believes it's wrong?

A nice argument, but I don't quite agree with your conclusion.  One does not
have to believe or disbelieve in the DBB; one can merely say that one doesn't
know.  Of course, the real test is when one is forced to decide whether to do
or not to do something depending on whether the DBB exists or not.  In this
case, I see no alternative to resorting to probabilities as you did, or to
Occam's razor (perhaps the same idea in a different guise?).

Anyway, here's the obligatory anecdote (for the benefit of rec.humor): Some
philosopher/theologician, when questioned as to whether he believes in God,
replied, [paraphrased] ``Either God exists or He doesn't.  Either I believe in
God or I don't.  Of the four possibilities, only one is to my disadvantage.
To avoid that possibility, I believe in God.''

BTW, could someone tell me who said the above?

Rujith de Silva.
Carnegie-Mellon University.
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
From: francis@oas.stanford.edu (Francis Muir)
Subject: Re: isolation
Organization: Stanford Exploration Project
Date: Tue, 21 Jul 1992 17:15:23 GMT

Barbara Hlavin writes:

	Vincent Burp (plain) writes:

		I've been interested lately in the effects of prolonged
		isolation of an individual or a small group.  Could any
		body out there tell me of some fiction that deals with
		this or perhaps some pschological works?

		Thanks.

	*No Exit*, Jean-Paul Sartre.  "L'enfer, c'est les autres," or 
	something like that.  Eternity is about as prolonged as you can 
	get. 

My Rose Without a Thorn must not have been keeping up with r.a.b postings
lately.

						Fido
Xref: sparky rec.arts.books:13258 rec.arts.sf.misc:2256 rec.humor:24703 alt.folklore.urban:19941 alt.religion.kibology:3240
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books,rec.arts.sf.misc,rec.humor,alt.folklore.urban,alt.religion.kibology
Subject: who was Sam Walton ( was When did Isaac Asimov die?)
From: derek@nezsdc.icl.co.nz (Derek Tearne)
Date: Mon, 27 Jul 92 05:54:02 GMT
 <1992Jul22.195747.2442@CSD-NewsHost.Stanford.EDU> <1992Jul23.210523.23111@sci34hub.sci.com>
Organization: Fujitsu New Zealand

In article <1992Jul23.210523.23111@sci34hub.sci.com> gary@sci34hub.sci.com (Gary Heston) writes:
>
>The saddest part about his death, though, is that he died the same weekend
>as Sam Walton, and $am got allmost all the press coverage. Wonder which one
>will be better known in 50 years?
>

OK who was Sam Walton?  Whoever he was I saw no coverage of his death.

I think that probably answers your question as well!

Derek Tearne

-- 
Derek Tearne  derek@icl.co.nz or derek@fivegl.co.nz --Fujitsu SDC,Auckland,NZ

My 'self aware' .signature file failed his Turing test.  
It turns out he was just a chess playing midget in a decorative box.
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
From: kamorgan@athena.mit.edu (Keith Morgan)
Subject: Re: Ahasuerus
Organization: Massachusetts Institute of Technology
Date: Sun, 26 Jul 1992 17:08:55 GMT

Roger Squires writes:
>The Dowager Duchess of Denver's cat in Sayers'
>_Busman's Honeymoon_ is named this, and I see that
>Drury Lane in Ellery Queen's _Drury Lane's Last Case_
>mentions Ahasuerus as well.
>
>Who is Ahasuerus?  There is no entry in 
>the Smaller Classical Dictionary, nor in the
>back of the Webster's Unabridged, so 
>I'm confident someone here will know.

	Check the Bible, i.e. Book of Esther. 

	__Keith



--
Keith Morgan		      | Just because your voice reaches half-
MIT Libraries                 | way around the world doesn't mean
kamorgan@athena.mit.edu	      | you are wiser than when it reached 
                              | only to the end of the bar. Ed Murrow
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books,rec.humor,alt.folklore.urban,rec.arts.sf.misc,alt.religion.kibology
From: rogerl@Ingres.COM (Roger Leuthner)
Subject: Re: help please, when did Isaac Asimov die?
Reply-To: rogerl@Ingres.COM (Roger Leuthner)
Organization: Ask Computer Systems Inc., Ingres Division, Alameda CA 94501
Date: 25 Jul 92 16:47:40 GMT

In article <BrupK8.82@ecf.toronto.edu> ricegm@ecf.toronto.edu (George Matthew Rice) writes:
>In article <Brun1F.I7o@world.std.com> lmh@world.std.com (Larry M Headlund) writes:
>>>
>>	Gee, I didn't know Asimov was an engineer.
>
>I thought that he had a Ph.D. in biochemistry and he was tenured at 
>Boston U (or somewhere around there).

Columbia University, NYC
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books