HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: bradbury@sftwks.UUCP (Robert Bradbury)
Newsgroups: sci.med.nutrition
Subject: Re: LOW PROTEIN DIETS
Summary: We all generally consume too much protein
Date: 4 Sep 92 06:28:18 GMT
Organization: Softworks Ltd, Seattle, WA

In article <1992Sep2.235705.181217@ns1.cc.lehigh.edu> ja0f@ns1.cc.lehigh.edu (JEANNE E. ADAMS) writes:
>Does anyone have any information on whether or not low protein diets help
>control the symptoms of renal failure for a patient not on dialysis?  I would
>appreciate any help.  Thank you.

I would suspect that they would help.  I think one of the first things
a good nutritionist would do for people with renal failure is to try
and cut down on the nitrogen input (proteins) in the diet.  The excretion
of excess nitrogen in the diet creates a great deal of extra work for
the kidneys.

The best "popular" work I've seen on protein reduction would be:
  Dr. Mollen's Anti-Aging Diet" bu Dr. Art Mollen, Dutton, 1992, $21.00.
He recomends a protein intake of 1 gm/3 lbs of body weight which is about
half of what the USDA recomends (110 gms/day for the average man).  As early
as 1904 it was shown that adults could thrive on 55gms of protein per day.

This advice corresponds well with information gathered in rodent studies.
Rodents on CR diets which have a high protein content live shorter lives,
dying from kidney pathologies when compared with animals on a high
carbohydrate CR diet.  (In both cases CR animals live longer than
animals fed ad libitum).

It should be noted that high carbohydrate diets may not be appropriate
for the hypoglycemic individuals.  Their problem usually is that excess
sugar intake or a quickly digested large complex carbohydrate meal may
drive up blood sugar levels, this in turn leads to excess insulin secretion
which will drive blood sugar levels back down (the "crash").  They need
to consume either small complex carbohydrate meals or else meals with
a higher protein or even monosaturated fat content (which would digest more
slowly).  Although refined sugar (soft drinks) may keep them from avoiding
the crash, it may cause them to accumulate weight and/or cause excessive
wear and tear on the insulin secreting (beta) cells.  Additionally high
sugar levels are a causal factor in the protein glycation theory of aging.
Ultimately one wants to tune the diet so the blood sugar level is kept
at as low a level as one can tolerate given one's activity and genetic 
differences.


Robert Bradbury			uunet!sftwks!bradbury

Death is an imposition on the human race, and no longer acceptable
				Alan Harrington, The Immortalist (1969)
Newsgroups: sci.med.nutrition,rec.food.veg
From: bagg@quads.uchicago.edu (matthew john baggott)
Subject: Re: VEGETARIAN DIET
Reply-To: bagg@midway.uchicago.edu
Organization: University of Chicago Computing Organizations
Date: Sat, 12 Sep 1992 07:37:46 GMT

In article <hctn+3q.strnlght@netcom.com> strnlght@netcom.com (David Sternlight) writes:

>Their latest book bears testimonials from:
>Glenn H. Koepke, M.D. of St. Joseph Hospital, Tucson, AZ;
>Joseph Girone, M.D. of Temple University Medical School;
>Toni Manos, M.D., Yonkers, N.Y.;
>Joel Fuhrman, M.D., St. Joseph's Medical Center, Yonkers, NY;
>Terry Grossman, M.D., Granby Medical Center, Granby, CO;
>Edward Taub M.D., University of California Medical School, Irvine;
>Joshua Leichtberg, M.D., Suma Medical Group, Beverly Hills, CA;
>Michael Klaper, M.D., Santa Cruz, CA;
>Jerrine Pauling, R.D., American Dietetic Association;
>Phyllis Terry-Gold, Ph.D., Clinical Psychologist, Hofstra University;
>and others with scientific credentials.

Then again, there are those of us who don't consider M.D.s to be
scientists.  My venerable grandfather (an M.D.) always told me
that medicine was an art, not a science.  My father (who has a
Ph.D. in biocehmistry) once told me "No son of mine is going to
become an M.D."  He was half-joking (he married a doctor, after all).
However, many Ph.D.'s whom I have encountered feel that M.D.'s
are not qualified for research because they have typically spent
so little of their training (if any) actually doing research.
Research is felt to be fundamentally different from treating pathology.
While Ph.D.'s ARE generally resentful of the higher status accorded
to doctors, I think this is a good point to keep in mind.
(Since I'm airing all this disciplinary dirty laundry, I might as
well add that Linus Pauling claims that most known cases of scientific
fraud were carried out by M.D.'s.)  

This is probably not worth following up on (at least, not on this
newsgroup).  In any case, I will answer no flames.

As you were.

    --Matt Baggott
From: Scott.Johnson@FtCollinsCO.NCR.COM (Scott Johnson)
Newsgroups: sci.med.nutrition
Subject: Re: Chromium Picolinate vs. Chromium Chloride
Date: 8 Sep 92 07:52:04 GMT
Reply-To: Scott.Johnson@FtCollinsCO.NCR.COM
Followup-To: sci.med.nutrition
Distribution: world
Organization: NCR Microelectronics, Ft. Collins, CO
In-reply-to: abulloch@garnet.berkeley.edu's message of 4 Sep 92 08:02:46 GMT


> 4) Chromium is necessary for insulin to work properly in regulating
> metabolism of carbohydrates, fats and protein. In a couple of university
> studies students taking 200 micrograms of chromium picolinate and
> exercisaing moderately lost 22% of their body fat and significantly
> increased muscle. Chromium picolinate also seems to result in greatly
> reduced sugar cravings.

	Uh, just wondering if you could post the results of the control group
here?  It seems that people who exercise moderately even without the
supplement will have some weight loss and increased muscle.  What kind of
exercise (walking?  weights?  swimming? )  All these factors make a huge
difference, and while we don't need the whole study re-printed here, some of
these control factors and results would be great in making a knowledgeable
decision on whether or not these supplements may be right for us.  Thank you.

--
-----------------------------------------------------------
E-Mail:  Scott.Johnson@FtCollinsCO.NCR.com
	 uunet!ncrlnk!ncr-mpd!Scott.Johnson
My opinions are mine and mine alone (unless I only live in your dream, in
which case they are yours and I denounce all responisbility).
GA to SK
From: tgg@otter.hpl.hp.com (Tom Gardner)
Newsgroups: sci.med.nutrition
Subject: Re: Does vegetarian get enough nutrition from food?
Date: 8 Sep 92 19:21:07 GMT
Organization: Hewlett-Packard Laboratories, Bristol, UK.

Always be careful of this reasoning:
	- diet X is good for people from region A
	- therefore diet X is good for people from region B

Examples:
	- many Japanese are genetically incapable of metabolising alcohol
	  and thus they get very drunk on small amounts of alcohol
	- the Chinese cannot digest cow's milk, and thus they have minimal
	  dairy produce in their diet. I believe this may be due to a lack
	  of the relevant intestinal flora. It is also interesting to note
	  that we send milk powder to Africa, and some newspaper reports 
	  have noted that they cannot digest milk...

What other examples are there?

Are you prepared to take part in an epidemiological experiment to determine
if restricting _your_ diet causes problems?
From: th@isr.harvard.edu (Todd Heatherton)
Newsgroups: sci.med.nutrition
Subject: Re: VEGETARIAN DIET
Summary: A new net-loon
Date: 11 Sep 92 15:43:36 GMT
Distribution: na
Organization: Harvard University, Cambridge, MA

In article <4lvn4q_.strnlght@netcom.com> strnlght@netcom.com (David Sternlight) writes:
>
>Thanks to Steve Dyer for once more demonstrating his dispassionate
>analytic mind through the use of such terms of art as "looney." It's
>a pleasure to participate in such a rational and civilized
>discussion group that "has such creatures in it."
>
>David


I never thought I would see the day when I agreed with both
Gordon Banks AND Steve Dyer :-) but Mr. Sternlight--apparently
a newcomer to the net--has been posting nonsense in more
than one newsgroup, and he also seems to love getting
into flame wars (although he doesn't seem very good at it).
David, some friendly advice, if you want net-warfare, the
group is called alt.flame.  If you want to get into
a nasty exchange with Steve or Gordon, do it by email.
I don't mind having to ignore your topic-relevant postings
(i.e., please continue to spew on about food combining),
but please don't burden my "n" key with more of your
personal fun and games.

To other netters, sorry for wasting bandwith.  But after five years
of reading the net, I get tired of new net-loons showing up
and posting garbage in multiple newsgroups, and then trying
to get flame-wars going with everyone.  There are too many
good newsgroups, too many good postings, and too little time
in the day to waste time ignoring these people.  There, now
I feel better.

Todd Heatherton
Department of Psychology
Harvard University
Cambridge, MA 02138
From: turpin@cs.utexas.edu (Russell Turpin)
Newsgroups: sci.med.nutrition
Subject: Re: Does vegetarian get enough nutrition from food?
Date: 7 Sep 1992 13:51:11 -0500
Organization: U Texas Dept of Computer Sciences, Austin TX
NNTP-Posting-Host: cs.utexas.edu
Summary: They start to like it.
Keywords: vegetarian

-*----
In article <92Sep3.211958edt.111@orasis.vis.toronto.edu> vlee@vis.toronto.edu (Victor Yuencheng Lee) writes:
> Some friends of mine are pure vegetarian, they don't eat meat, don't
> eat eggs, nor do they try dairy food. Only vegetables.
>
> What will happen if they keep doing this for their wjole life?  

Eventually, they will learn to like it.

Russell
Newsgroups: sci.med.nutrition
From: philip@research.canon.oz.au (Philip Craig)
Subject: Psoriasis diet-related information wanted
Organization: Canon Information Systems Research Australia
Date: Mon, 7 Sep 1992 03:15:11 GMT

Hi.

I have a friend with psoriasis (a skin-disease which 3% of the western
world suffers from -- it causes itchy, red patches on the skin).

She has heard that the disease can be partially controlled through diet,
so she is trying this "killer" diet that she has been given information on.
I can see that no one has definitive answers on how much diet-dependence
this disease in fact has, or about which foods to avoid.

I'm wondering if anyone has read anything or seen anything about this
diet issue of psoriasis.

I am asking here for references people have to any respectable articles on
this topic. Any way of getting references would also be good.

Please e-mail me and I'll summarize to the net. Thanks in advance,
-- 
   _/_/_/  _/  _/  _/  _/      _/  _/_/_/ _p_h_i_l_i_p_@_r_e_s_e_a_r_c_h_._c_a_n_o_n_._o_z_._a_u   _--_|\
  _/  _/  _/  _/  _/  _/      _/  _/  _/  Phone: +61 2 805 2951        /      \
 _/_/_/  _/_/_/  _/  _/      _/  _/_/_/   Fax:   +61 2 805 2929        \_.--._/
_/      _/  _/  _/  _/_/_/  _/  _/     PO Box 313 North Ryde 2113 AUSTRALIA  v
Newsgroups: sci.med.nutrition
From: anil@cs.titech.ac.jp (Anil Bhatia)
Subject: greenhouse food is not nutritous?
Organization: Tokyo Institute of Tech., Dept. of Computer Science, Japan
Date: Thu, 10 Sep 1992 12:03:42 GMT

My wife tells me that food grown in a greenhouse is LESS nutritous
than
food grown outside a greenhouse.
Can anyone confirm or deny this for me please.
If you reply to me personally than I will post a summary of
views/results.
Many thanks.
Anil
anil@cs.titech.ac.jp
Newsgroups: sci.med.nutrition
From: ekp@mcnc.org (Edward Pavelchek)
Subject: Re: Diet Coke and Weight Loss (was Re: hypoglycemia)
Organization: Good place for a disclaimer
Date: Thu, 10 Sep 1992 23:39:49 GMT

In article <1992Sep10.194523.24031@walter.bellcore.com> kenl@origami.cc.bellcore.com (Ken Lehner) writes:
>An interesting statistic I've heard is that the introduction and
>widespread use of Nutrasweet has not reduced sugar consumption in this
>country.  It may have been that it has not reduced the GROWTH of sugar
>consumption!

It may be picking a nit, but you don't know where those statistics have
been....

Diet Coke presumably displaces Coke, which aint got much sugar anymore.
They use high fructose corn syrup.  How's it's consumption going?

-- 
Ed Pavelchek   ekp@mcnc.org
But I make a profit of 3 1/4 cents an egg by selling them for 4 1/4
cents an egg to the people in Malta I buy them from for 7 cents an egg.
Of course, *I* don't make the profit.          Joseph Heller, Catcha 22
Newsgroups: sci.med.nutrition
From: jdb@camano.seo.dec.com (Jeffrey D Brennan)
Subject: Re: VEGETARIAN DIET
Organization: Digital Equipment Corporation
	<12SEP92.21451841@nerus.pfc.mit.edu> <14788@gazette.bcm.tmc.edu>
Date: Mon, 14 Sep 1992 23:04:34 GMT

Can't resist jumping in here.  FFL claims that eating foods
in inappropriate combinations causes indigestion and gas.
Something causes eructation and flatulence.  I don't know
if putrefaction or fermentation is the cause but something
is.  And I notice that when I eat rice or potatoes with meat
I feel more bloated and get more flatulent.  Eating potatoes
or meat alone doesn't cause me these problems.

I found it interesting to note that this theory of protein/starch
combination explains why beans are difficult to digest and often
cause flatulence; they are a natural protein/starch combination.

JD Brennan
[jdb@camano.enet.dec.com	Digital Equipment Corp.  Bellevue, WA]
Newsgroups: sci.med.nutrition,rec.food.veg
From: glw@ioit.uswc.uswest.com (Glenn Williams)
Subject: Re: VEGETARIAN DIET
Organization: US WEST Information Technologies
Date: Mon, 14 Sep 1992 14:43:20 GMT

Food combining isn't new. In Diet for a Small planet, it's covered in detail. That book pre-dates Fit for Life by almost ten years.


glenn williams
US WEST

Newsgroups: sci.med.nutrition
From: atalanta@leland.Stanford.EDU (Michelle Renee Dick)
Subject: Re: China Study
Organization: DSG, Stanford University, CA 94305, USA
Date: Tue, 15 Sep 92 05:42:28 GMT

In article <6_znm3+.strnlght@netcom.com> strnlght@netcom.com (David Sternlight) writes:
>
>..... This provides even more recent and stronger evidence that it
>is a good idea, as Tony Robbins and the Diamonds suggest, to cut out
>all meat and dairy for improved health.

BWAAHAHAHAHAHAHA.

Oh my, Robbins and Diamonds are quite the revolutionaries.  Cut down on
fat?!  Who'd have thought that would be so important in a healthful
diet?  

I can't think of one mainstream health organization that WASN'T
promoting a low-fat, high complex carbohydrate diet before the
mass-popularization of Diamonds book in 1986.  

I can't wait to see what new insightful idea these two will come up
with.  Maybe that exercising is good for you (shudder, perish the
thought),  or that lead is poisonous (nah, couldn't be).

>The self-styled experts here
>who are mocking those materials have one more layer of egg on
>their faces, as do those who insist a calorie is a calorie and calories
>are everything.

Where?!? are these "self-styled experts" who fail to recognize that a
low-fat diet promotes good health, or that complex carbohydrates,
besides being lower in calories than fat, require more energy to
process than fat (thus reducing even further their effective caloric
content).


>One may expect the nutritionists, together with the meat and dairy
>industries to do everything they can to try to obfuscate and denigrate
>the results of this study

Take it to alt.conspiracy.  

>the nutritionists because it discredits
>much of what many have been saying

Quite the contrary, it supports the recommendations that a low-fat,
high complex carbohydrate, high fiber diet is good for you.  No
mainstream nutritionist I know has recommended anything else for at
least the past decade.  I don't know why you think your gurus deserve
such kudos for the recommendations they make that parallel the most
accepted, widely known, well researched and darn-near proven
nutritional guidelines.  If you're looking for a visionary who
anticipated some of these ideas before they became well known, I
suggest you take a look at Nathan Pritiken (though his diet is overly
strict for the general population).

--
Michelle Dick
atalanta@leland.stanford.edu


Newsgroups: sci.med.nutrition
From: woodgold@emr1.emr.ca (Cathy Woodgold)
Subject: Re: Red wine allergy
Organization: Energy, Mines, and Resources, Ottawa
Date: Wed, 9 Sep 1992 14:32:53 GMT

jensen@unlinfo.unl.edu (michael jensen) writes:
>C.A.Blunsdon@lut.ac.uk (CA Blunsdon)  writes:

>>Anyone know the basis of an allergy to red wine, and what
>>other 'foods' might be implicated? Thanks in advance.

>...it feels like my brain is swelling like a dried-out sponge. 
>Headache so bad I am nearly blinded. A logey feeling of stupidity and 
>sloth, perhaps from the wicked pain. Red wine does it within half an 
>hour, even with one glass; white takes a couple of glasses to bring it
>on, but I get a reasonably irritating pain even with one glass of 
>white. 
>
>...that red wine made my head ache.
>
I ask you to consider the possibility that what you are describing is
not an allergy but a migraine headache.  Foods known to cause migraines
include chocolate, cheese, red wine, and others.  Different foods
affect different people.  Ask me if you want more information on
migraines and how to treat them.  (I hope to do a posting on this
sometime;  what newsgroup would be most appropriate?  only some of
my treatments are nutritional.)  Of course, whether it's an allergy or
a migraine is not so important to you;  you've found your treatment,
which is to avoid wine.

Cathy Woodgold,  Ottawa, Ont., Canada
woodgold@seismo.emr.ca  OR  woodgold@emr1.emr.ca
There is so such a thing as a free lunch!
(This posting is from me personally and does not represent
the policy of any organization.)
Organization: University of Illinois at Chicago
Date: Friday, 4 Sep 1992 22:18:18 CDT
From: <U59985@uicvm.uic.edu>
Newsgroups: sci.med.nutrition
Subject:    weight training and weight gain

I have a question on weight gain. What is the best way to gain weight safely? I
 know the word "best" means many things to many people. What I want to know is
a safe way to gain weight, and keep it, over a reasonable amount of time.

I read another post that advised to go to a gym and work out. I have been doing
 this for the past month. I think I'm beginning to hit upon the limit that work
ing out will do. I think I'm going to need some change in my diet. I would like
 to avoide the weight gainer's powder and pills and stuff like that. So I guess
 my question is what are some good diet recommendations? I mean in terms of cal
oric intake, carbohydrate quantities, protien quantities, etc.


Thanks,


Thomas
Newsgroups: sci.med.nutrition
From: haydens@bullwinkle.juliet.ll.mit.edu (Hayden Schultz x3685 g42)
Subject: Re: Does vegetarian get enough nutrition from food?
Reply-To: haydens@juliet.ll.mit.edu
Organization: M.I.T. Lincoln Lab - Group 42
Date: 10 Sep 92 12:54:03


In article <1992Sep9.190241.21381@super.org> wheeler@super.org (Ferrell S. Wheeler) writes:

   VEGETARIAN FOODS: POWERFUL FOR HEALTH

	A vegetarian diet has been advocated by everyone from philosophers, such
   as Plato and Nietzsche, to statesmen, such as Benjamin Franklin, to modern
   pop icons such as Paul McCartney and Bob Marley. Science is also on the
   side of vegetarian foods. A multitude of studies have proven the health
   benefits of a vegetarian diet to be remarkable.
	"Vegetarian" is defined as avoiding all animal flesh, including fish and
   poultry. Vegetarians who avoid flesh, but do eat animal products such as
   cheese, milk, and eggs are ovo-lacto-vegetarians (ovo = egg; lacto = milk,
   cheese, etc.). The ranks of those who eschew all animal products are
   rapidly growing; these people are referred to as pure vegetarians or vegans
   (vee' guns). Scientific research shows that ovo-lacto-vegetarians are
   healthier than meat-eaters, and vegans are healthier than ovo-lacto-
   vegetarians.

I'm curious about the scientific research which shows that "and vegans
are healthier than ovo-lacto-vegetarians." Could you please describe
this in a bit more detail?

From another one of your posts you say:

	* Conclusion
	A cancer-prevention diet is one that is high in fiber, low in fat
	(especially animal fat), and includes generous portions of fruits and
	vegetables. It also minimizes or excludes alcohol. The best diets are pure
	vegetarian diets.

I am absolutely convinced that a well-balanced diet which "is high in
fiber, low in fat (especially animal fat), and includes generous
portions of fruits and vegetables" is much healthier than the average
American diet. But I am skeptical of the nutritional basis for your
statement that "the best diets are pure vegetarian diets."

There are a number of healthfull nutrients in meat, fish, dairy
products, and eggs. Calcuim, Omega-3, and B12 come immediatly to mind.
When you claim that the "best diets are pure vegetarian diets," you
imply that any amount of meat, fish, dairy, and eggs is unhealthy.

I'm not claiming to be an expert in this area, but everything I've
read indicates that the amount of these foods that we eat should be a
much smaller proportion of our diet than is currently the American
norm. But I don't understand, even from the arguments which you have
made in your previous articles to this newsgroup, why you say that the
amount of these foods should be zero. 

	Hayden
Newsgroups: sci.med.nutrition
From: y8321@carson.u.washington.edu (Yih-Jin Young)
Subject: Re: Tradeoffs between reproduction and repair [was: weight gain]
Organization: University of Washington, Seattle
Date: Wed, 9 Sep 1992 05:31:42 GMT

In article <TSF.92Sep8161305@U.ERGO.CS.CMU.EDU> tsf@CS.CMU.EDU (Timothy Freeman) writes:
>In article <1992Sep8.070445.6093@u.washington.edu> y8321@carson.u.washington.edu (Yih-Jin Young) writes:
>
>   In article <210@sftwks.UUCP> bradbury@sftwks.UUCP (Robert Bradbury) writes:
>   >There has been alot of speculation in the scientific
>   >literature that low body weight (caloric restriction) has the major effect
>   >of switching energy resources from reproduction to maintenance and repair
>   >of DNA and proteins...
>
>   According to John Bongaarts, malnutrition can impair the function of the 
>   human reproductive process.  
>
>You're talking about malnutrition, but you're responding to a post
>talking about calorie restriction.  They are different things.
>Malnutrition is an uncontrolled reduction of the intake of most
>nutrients, whereas calorie restriction is a reduction of calorie
>intake without reducing the intake of other nutrients.
However if insufficient food intake can have only minor effect on fertility, 
how much difference would it make for calorie restriction on fertility?

Yih-Jin Young

Newsgroups: sci.med.nutrition,rec.food.veg
From: mrl@nerus.pfc.mit.edu
Subject: RE: VEGETARIAN DIET
Organization: MIT PLASMA FUSION CENTER
Date: Fri, 11 Sep 1992 02:14:53 GMT

In a previous article, molnar@Bisco.CAnet.CA (Tom Molnar) wrote:
>You know, I've always had some difficulty coming to grips with the US
>RDA for calcium (btw, my copy of RDA lists the calcium requirement for
>men aged 23-50 5'10" 170lbs as 800mg/day as well).  Has anyone tried to
>eat the recommended amount without resorting to dairy products?  I
>have, and it's tough.  One has to eat a bushel full of green leafy
>vegetables -- and as much as I like my greens, I can't eat that much
>every blessed day.  It's almost as if there is a conspiracy to make me
>drink milk or eat cheese because it's easy to come up with the 800 mg/day
>that way.  I can't help but think of the hundreds of millions of people
>in other parts of the world that never drink milk as adults or touch cheese.
>They don't seem to suffer from osteoperosis, and since they are human too,
>how can they be so different from me?
> 

Probably because another factor is exercise.  The rest of the world don't have
a cushy life style like us and are much more active.  Everyone always points
out that the Chinese don't eat dairy, but they also work 7 days a week, and I
mean really WORK.  Exercise reduces the need for calcium.

Mark