HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: boba@miki.pictel.com (Bob Alexander)
Subject: Re: Bearing arms: our first line of defense
Organization: PictureTel Corporation
Date: Mon, 31 Aug 1992 16:51:35 GMT

>>There are two issues here: "Is all gun control unconstitutional?" and "Is
>>it a good idea?"  In the latter, we can agree to disagree and fight it
>>out in the legistature.  In the former, we can look to the Supreme
>>Court, and see what it has said.  Convicted felons cannot own guns,
>>therefore some controls are constitutional.

This is a common fallacy.

When the Supreme Court rules that a law is constitutional, that does
not mean that the law is, in fact, constitutional.  All it means is
that a majority of nine legal scholars have the opinion that the law
is constitutional.

If the Court rules 5-4 that a law is constitutional, there is still
plenty of room for plausible debate as to whether the law really is
constitutional.  Even if the Court rules 9-0, there is room for
plausible debate if constitutional scholars disagree with the Court.
After all, the 9 people on the Court are not the be-all and end-all of
constitutional law.

If Congress passed a law outlawing Judaism, and the Supreme Court
ruled that it was constitutional, that would not mean that it is,
really, constitutional.  All it would mean is that the Court would not
try to prevent the gov't from enforcing the law.

Likewise, when the Court allows gun control laws to stand, that does
not resolve the issue of whether they are consistent with the 2nd and
9th amendments.

     Bob Alexander                                     boba@pictel.com
       The more the government does, the better libertarianism looks
     -----------------------------------------------------------------
     Organizations don't have opinions; people do.  The above opinions
     do not reflect those of the directors, stockholders, managers, or
     other employees of PictureTel.

Newsgroups: ne.politics
From: gjc@mitech.com (George J. Carrette)
Newsgroups: ne.politics
Subject: Re: Foreign policy musings
Date: 26 Aug 92 11:19:35 GMT
Followup-To: r.std.c <bzs.92aug25221546@ussr.std.com>

Organization: Mitech Corporation, Concord MA

In article <BZS.92Aug25221546@ussr.std.com>, bzs@ussr.std.com (Barry Shein) writes:
> But that just begs the original point, obviously Japan (as well as the
> US) did without both Kuwaiti and Iraqi oil for several months and I
> don't remember any major disaster.

Because of massive world-wide reserves of OIL. Thats why they "did without"
with no problem. Simple storage effects.

Obviously my comment about these massive reserves got lost in verbage.

But these reserves were being used. And as soon as the amount-of-time-left
in the reserves started to get close to the amount-of-time-to-restart
the oil production at places like the OIL SHALES, you would find
futures prices for oil going up to the levels that would make
production in such places profitable.

> It really depends on how dire you believe the options are. If you're
> out to avoid some discomfort, yes, Japan is important. If you're
> fighting for your life, much less so.

If Japan was cut off from oil supplies, what would it do?
What did it do the last time it was cut off from (US) oil supplies?

Gives new meaning to the word "some discomfort."

-gjc
Newsgroups: ne.politics
From: cory@enigami.mv.com (Cory Kempf)
Newsgroups: ne.politics
Subject: Re: Bearing Arms
Date: Thu, 27 Aug 92 12:21:30 EST
Organization: EnigamI, Inc., Nashua, NH
Reply-To: cory@enigami.mv.com
X-Mailer: uAccess - Macintosh Release: 1.6v1


In article <2-JNEWS-2.1@nyqrn.UUCP> (ne.politics), raf@nyqrn.UUCP (Hugh Sider) writes:
>							 My personal interpretation
> may even be looser than yours, but here it is.
>
>      The consitution was written when law enforcement, in general,
> was conducted by the army.  This amendment gives the enforcement of
> civil law to civilians.   Police have a constitutional right to
> keep and bear arms.  We don't.

Is this a deliberate misreading?  The constitution says "...The Right
of the *PEOPLE*..." not "police", not "militia", not "army", etc.

Really, I cannot understand how *ANYONE* can misinterpret that statement
to mean "...the right of the government to keep and bear arms..."
This one is really beyond me.  It has to be a deliberate thing.  Logic
hass nothing to do with it.

>      Go ahead and flame.  Just be aware that the constitution
> specifically ties this right to the maintenance of a militia.  My
> fallback organization (to play the role of militia) is the National
> Guard.

Yet another person who flunks basic logic.  Just because A implies
B, does not mean that B implies A.

At any rate, the national guard is NOT the militia, they are a reserve
unit of the U.S. Army.  In otherwords, they are a part of the government,
*NOT* the people (e.g. civilians) (well, at least while they are on
duty).

>    Waiting periods are a practical way to reduce crimes of passion.

There are several states that require waiting periods.  They don't
work.

>    As an aside, most waiting periods are for handguns.  You want to
> stop the rioters at your door, buy a shotgun.

Thanks, but I have my own preferences.  A shotgun has too low a rate
of fire, takes too long to load, and takes far to much time to bring
to bear.  Nice if you only have one or two targets that are reasonably
far away, but more or less useless for most protection needs.  (Have
you ever tried to fit one in a nightstand?)

>     Question for you, Murph.  Willing to fund the teaching of
> firearms safety in public school?  Please remember that the vast
> majority of your fellow Americans are pretty clueless about the
> subject.

I think that the NRA would love for the chance to teach firearm safty
in the public schools!

It would be a damn site better than what currently passes for "education"
in those glorified baby-sitting centers.

+C


-------------------------------------------------------------
Cory Kempf                    EnigamI, Inc.
cory@enigami.mv.com           ...!decvax!enigami!cory
Annon:	wi.5036@wizvax.methuen.ma.us

"F' cryin' out loud, it's *your* life; shouldn't you at least examine 
your lifestyle values to see if they are really what *you* want."
										--Keith Lim
Newsgroups: ne.politics
From: cmr@world.std.com (Charles M Richmond)
Subject: Re: Flat taxes
Organization: Integrated International Systems Corp. One Longfellow Place, Suite 3309, Boston, Ma.
Date: Sat, 29 Aug 1992 17:30:19 GMT

rdonahue@spdcc.com (Bob Donahue) writes:


>	There more to it than that:  with a flat tax and no 
>deductions/exemptions you come very close to eliminating the need
>for an IRS, especially if all taxes are taken out at the time
>you're paid.  Since the tax is flat the amount withheld is easily
> ......

>	OF course this will never happen since it would mean that
>all the tax shelters people put money into would go away.  (awwwwww.)
>But the majority of people, however, it means more $$$ in their pocket
>and a greatly simplified duty.

>	People who have played with the numbers have also said that such
>a system would add literally hundreds of millions of dollars to the economy.
>The only reason it isn't being done is greed.

>BBC


It is not just greed. Loopholes and exemptions are a favorite tool of
reformers of the left and the right. Bush wants to modify the economy
by providing low tax rates on capital gains. Others try to encourage
debt accumulation by allowing tax deductions for interest paid out. Still
others want to channel that debt accumulation into increasing home
ownership by allowing deductions of mortgage interest. Others would like
to incourage capital accumulation by placing lower taxes on interest
earned. Others wish to give deductions for daycare expenditures. On and
on, on and on.  There are many worthwhile reasons for modifying the tax
code , some of which directly contradict each other. As long as we are
using the tax structure to perform social engineering we will never be
able to simplify it. Good meaning, well intentioned person wreaking
havoc with our taxes... not just greedy ones!

Charlie


-- 
*****************************************************************************
*  Charles Richmond 	Integrated International Systems Corporation        *
*  cmr@world.std.com	(Temporary) cmr@chiechan.mro4.dec.com		    *
*  Specializing in UNIX, X, Image Processing, and Communications.           *
From: gjc@mitech.com (George J. Carrette)
Newsgroups: ne.politics
Subject: Re: Foreign policy musings, HUBRIS indeed
Date: 25 Aug 92 13:22:04 GMT
Followup-To: r.std.c <jturner.92aug22123019@splinter.coe.northeastern.edu>

Organization: Mitech Corporation, Concord MA

In article <JTURNER.92Aug22123019@splinter.coe.northeastern.edu>, jturner@splinter.coe.northeastern.edu (Jeffrey Turner) writes:
> 	The US has set itself up as policeman to the world, with that
> sort of hubris why wouldn't the US be able to invite an Iraqi invasion.

The US has set itself up as the policeman of the world.
That is, the US (the world's largest economy) has created and maintained
the military structure needed to deal with something like an Iraqi invasion,
and has maintained some amount of exclusivity in this "large capability"
of force structure, only because the US does not want to see
the world's 2nd and 3rd largest economies, Japan and Germany,
similarly armed-to-9's with a large and *mobile* force structure
that can be brought into play in order to police those matters of
concern to those countries.

Hubris indeed. An interpretation in classical Greek mythology would
have the opposite (encouraging Japan and Germany to re-arm) as being
the the embodiment of hubris.

-gjc

[Editors note. Hubris is a greek world, ok. The only reason I would
 bring up Greek mythology in ne.politics].
From: pha@sparc51.hri.com (Paul Anderson)
Newsgroups: ne.politics
Subject: Re: I'm in a gay mood!
Date: 1 Sep 92 17:18:12 GMT
Reply-To: pha@hri.com
Organization: Horizon Research, Inc.


In article <Jsq3PB5w165w@buscard.fidonet.org>, murph@buscard.fidonet.org
(Brian Murphy) writes:
>
> More than flavor or preference, though, homosexuality is unnatural.  It is
> more than a matter of the color of someone's skin, it is going against
> nature's grain.  It is not something to be encouraged or accepted any more
> than someone having cancer is.

Homosexuality exists in non-human species.  That it exists, then, in the
human species is perfectly natural.

> Like a chronic nose-picker or someone else with an annoying habit, they can
> say they were born that way, can't help it, should have all the rights that
> everyone else has, etc., but, when it comes right down to it, annoying is
> annoying and is going to be shunned.

Public diplay of affection (in general) is one issue, but what people do
in the privacy of their homes between consenting adults is none of your or
my business.

> 
>                                       - - - Murph

Paul Anderson
pha@hri.com
From: gordon@lugh.think.com (gordon linoff)
Newsgroups: ne.politics
Subject: H. 5194 and Rep. Hildt
Followup-To: ne.politics
Date: 28 Aug 92 15:41:36
Organization: Thinking Machines Corporation, Cambridge MA, USA
NNTP-Posting-Host: lugh.think.com
In-reply-to: ptrei@bistromath.mitre.org's message of Mon, 24 Aug 1992 17:21:34 GMT


In article <1992Aug24.172134.16562@linus.mitre.org> ptrei@bistromath.mitre.org (Peter Trei) writes:

	. . .

		      HOUSE . . . . . . . . No. 5194

	       ============================================

     By Ms. Hildt of Amesbury, petition of Barbara Hildt, Mary Jeanette
   Murray, Nancy H. Evans, Marc D. Draisen, Barbara Gardner and Sally
   P. Kerans for legislation to protect the civil rights of women and
   children from pornography and sex discrimination.  The Judiciary.

	       ============================================

		    The Commonwealth of Massachusetts

	   In the Year One Thousand Nine Hundred and Ninety-Two

   AN ACT TO PROTECT THE CIVIL RIGHTS OF WOMEN AND CHILDREN

	. . .


Thank you very much for posting this.  I believe this bill
is dying a slow death in the Judiciary Committee and there
is no danger of it ever getting out of the committee.

Of particular interest is Rep. Hildt's role.  Not only is
she the chief sponsor, but she arranged some loud press
coverage during committee hearings.  This was an organized
effort and she was one of the organizers.

She is now running for Mavroules's seat in Congress.  This
is a significant blemish on her record which is otherwise
pro-active and very good (pro-choice, pro-gay, pro-women's
issues, etc.).

Several people (including myself) from the Coalition for
Lesbian and Gay Civil Rights wanted to endorse her over
Mavroules.  Although she says that she no longer supports
such legislation and would oppose it at the federal level,
she refuses to put such statements in writing.

I encourage everyone interested in freedom of expression to
call her campaign office and urge her to issue a statement
opposing such a definition of discrimination.  Her campaign
numbers are:  (617) 595-9722 and (508) 922-4404.

The stated purpose of this bill is to prevent violence
against women.  However, the bill focusses only on sex and
would selectively be used against lesbian, gay, and feminist
book stores.  Earlier this year, the Canadian Supreme Court
ruled on a definition of obscenity similar to that expounded
by MacKinnon and proposed in H. 5194 (that of depicting
certain acts as opposed to actually offending someone).  The
major use of this new interpretation has been to harass
lesbian and gay book stores.

--gordon
Coalition for Lesbian and Gay Civil Rights
P.O. Box 206
State House Station
Boston, MA   02133
From: gonzalez@bbn.com (Jim Gonzalez)
Newsgroups: ne.politics
Subject: Re: Bearing arms: our first line of defense
Date: 1 Sep 1992 19:53:32 GMT
NNTP-Posting-Host: bbn.com

In article <2798109875@dwetzel.mis.stratus.com> Dave_Wetzel@vos.stratus.com 
writes:
>
>of anything here).  These results are rediculous.  As long as gun-control 
>laws are local, there can be no effective gun control.  

We already have national laws, including a ban on interstate sale of
handguns.  What law do you propose adding?

>		      Outlawing guns in Washington DC means nothing when 
>you can drive 10 mins out of the city and buy a gun.  

There are two states within 10 minutes of DC by car: Virginia and
Maryland.  Both have mechanisms in place to further enforce the federal
law against interstate sale of handguns.  In Virginia, they have an
instant check system.  In Maryland, they have a waiting period.  No DC
shoppers there.

>						       Clearly, if we can't 
>get national legislation then we might as well open the floodgates and 
>legalize the kind of anarchistic vigilantism that the NRA seems to 
>advocate.

Self-defense is not vigilantism.  It's that attitude that has the
Middlesex DA prosecuting a guy for stabbing a gun-wielding home invader
(one of two) for murder.

				-Jim.
From: bzs@ussr.std.com (Barry Shein)
Subject: Re: Bearing arms: our first line of defense
Organization: The World
	<BZS.92Aug24194712@ussr.std.com> <2797583861@dwetzel.mis.stratus.com>
Date: Tue, 25 Aug 1992 21:43:48 GMT


From: usenet@transfer.stratus.com (Mr. Network News) [responding to me]
>> Besides, what's a "ya-hoo"?
>
>Criminals definately qualify.  Anyone anarchistic enough to concieve of a 
>drive-by shooting qualifies.

Well, gun laws don't do much to curtail these folks.

>The folks that invade Penn's Woods every 
>deer season with cases of beer AND guns.  Hunters who shoot at anything 
>that moves (I'm sorry, but hunting is not a game.

That should all be illegal as driving and drinking, or reckless
driving etc. Heavy fines and jail sentences etc.

>True, only criminals will have guns (actually, if we make guns illegal, 
>then *BY DEFINITION* anyone owning one will be a criminal but that's not 
>the point).

Well, no, I wasn't making a trite point. You can sort of own a gun in
Massachussetts (a long gun at any rate), but it's fairly difficult and
enough to discourage all but the most motivated. The result is that
it's much easier (and more likely) that anyone who owns a gun in this
state is otherwise a criminal (i.e. not by virtue of his/her gun, but
why s/he owns it.)

>The question is how many criminals will have guns?  That's 
>the goal of gun-control to reduce the number of guns in the hands of 
>criminals by reducing the number of guns available.

Gee, worked well with illegal drugs! (I say with a tone of sarcasm.)

I just don't believe it will make much any dent.

>> You can always walk into the right bar with a few
>> hundred dollars in your pocket and an hour later have all the guns you
>> want. Particularly if you're known to the underworld community.
>
>Yes, right now you can, because there is no control on firearms (sorry but 
>if it's not a national regulation, it's too easy to circumvent by hopping 
>from state to state).  This doesn't adress how things would change if guns 
>were illegal (and therefore fewer available).

Again, you can walk into that same bar and walk out with as much crack
as you like (within reason), so what are we to conclude?


--
        -Barry Shein

Software Tool & Die    | bzs@world.std.com          | uunet!world!bzs
Purveyors to the Trade | Voice: 617-739-0202        | Login: 617-739-WRLD
From: lead@athena.mit.edu (Lead)
Newsgroups: ne.wanted
Subject: Women's bike wanted
Date: 3 Sep 92 14:33:42 GMT
Organization: Massachusetts Institute of Technology

I am posting this for a friend. If you have a women's bike for sale and
if it costs less than $100 and is in good condition, please reply to
me:  lead@athena.mit.edu

Thanks
Organization: University of Maine System
Date: Wednesday, 26 Aug 1992 22:05:55 EDT
From: Robert Roxby <RROXBY@MAINE.MAINE.EDU>
Newsgroups: ne.wanted
Subject: Marine VHF handheld radio wanted

Somebody advertised one recently, but I lost it.
From: obrien@sparc28.hri.com (Jim Obrien)
Newsgroups: ne.wanted
Subject: LAPTOP computer wanted.
Date: 1 Sep 92 15:31:06 GMT
Reply-To: obrien@bigbird.hri.com
Organization: Horizon Research, Inc.


I am looking for a used laptop computer. Model and make
are not important, but condition should be good. 

                                 thankx Jim...


+-+-------------+-+----------------------------------------------------+-+
|o|    /////    |o|              Jim O'Brien (obrien)                  |o|
|o|   | @ @     |o|           Horizon Research Inc. (HRI)              |o|
|o|   c  _)     |o|        1432 Main street Waltham Ma. 02154          |o|
|o|    \ o      |o|   obrien@HRI.com (617) 466-8364 FAX (617) 466-8323 |o|
+-+-------------+-+----------------------------------------------------+-+




Newsgroups: ne.wanted
From: johnson@speshr.enet.dec.com (Pete Johnson)
Subject: Wanted: Delta 14" or 16" band saw
Organization: Digital Equipment Corporation
Date:  4 SEP 92 11:23:00 EST

I'd like to own a Delta 14" or 16" band saw but can't afford a new one. If you
have any idea where I can find a used one (I have checked the WANT ADvertiser)
please let me know.

Thanks.
From: khoo@husc3.harvard.edu
Newsgroups: ne.wanted
Subject: WANTED: Futon+Frame or Fold-out Sofa
Date: 3 Sep 92 14:54:43 GMT
Organization: Harvard University Science Center

I want to buy either a futon+frame or a sofa with a fold-out bed.  Must be in a 
reasonably good condition and a 'nice' colour.

Thanks, you can call me at 864-7712 (home).  
Lawrence

-- 
khoo@husc3.harvard.edu      Lawrence Khoo       Computer Consultant
khoo@husc9.harvard.edu      (617) 496-8992    Econ. Dept, Harvard U.
Xref: sparky ne.wanted:1182 misc.wanted:8107
From: selick@csa.bu.edu (Steven Selick)
Newsgroups: ne.wanted,misc.wanted
Subject: Looking for best price on oil heat in Brighton, MA
Date: 31 Aug 92 18:18:18 GMT
Followup-To: ne.wanted
Distribution: ne
Organization: Computer Science Department, Boston University, Boston, MA, USA
Originator: selick@csa


I have recently moved from an apartment in Boston into a 3 family house
in Brighton. I am looking for the best deal in oil heat for one floor of
the 3 decker. How many gallons should a 3 bedroom floor take per month
at, say, 72-75 degrees? What should I be paying per gallon? What is the
best price per gallon in the area?

Thanks,
Steve <selick@csa.bu.edu>
From: churley@warren.med.harvard.edu (Carol Hurley)
Newsgroups: ne.wanted
Subject: Phantom Tickets
Date: 28 Aug 92 13:21:20 GMT
Followup-To: ne.wanted
Organization: Harvard Medical School

***Posted for a friend***  Please reply to rnawn@warren.med.harvard.edu

would you please send out a request over the

network for 2 tickets for Phantom at the Wang?  It doesn't matter what the

date or time, but we would like two together in CENTER ORCHESTRA, ROWS E TO
O

OR DRESS CIRCLE LEFT OR RIGHT.

These are for Phil's mum and dad for their 52nd wedding anniversary.

Thanks!!


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Carol Hurley
churley@warren.med.harvard.edu

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Newsgroups: ne.wanted
From: liu@athena.mit.edu (Xiaojun Liu)
Subject: Q-size Boxspring WANTED
Organization: Massachusetts Institute of Technology
Date: Thu, 27 Aug 1992 19:47:15 GMT

I'm looking for a cheap queen size boxspring, around Boston
area. If you have one available, send me a message. Thanks.


Newsgroups: ne.wanted
From: pedro@wpi.WPI.EDU (Kerry Ivan Kurian)
Subject: KORG 01/W
Organization: Worcester Polytechnic Institute
Date: Thu, 3 Sep 1992 19:28:21 GMT

That's right boys and girls.....I NEED a Korg 01/W.

  If you have a 01/W to sell, or if you know someone that has one to sell,
    make a connection and we'll see if we can make a deal.  Thanks.

pedro@wpi.wpi.edu

Voice and Fax (508) 791-2834.
From: khoo@husc3.harvard.edu
Newsgroups: ne.wanted
Subject: Want to buy: 2 BR apt near Harvard U.
Date: 26 Aug 92 17:50:17 GMT
Organization: Harvard University Science Center


I'm thinking of buying a 2 bedroom apartment within 15 minutes walk of Harvard 
University.  If you know of anyone willing to sell for around $150,000 please  
e-mail or call me at 864-7712.  Thanks          

-- 
khoo@husc3.harvard.edu      Lawrence Khoo       Computer Consultant
khoo@husc9.harvard.edu      (617) 496-8992    Econ. Dept, Harvard U.
Newsgroups: ne.wanted
From: tcb@wombat.gnu.ai.mit.edu (Ted Beatie)
Subject: *WANTED* QIC-60 Tape Drive for one evening *BRIBE* Food
Organization: Fandom House
Date: Fri, 4 Sep 1992 03:00:49 GMT


I need to borrow a Sun 2 compatible QIC-60 Tape Drive for an evening.
I will bribe with Pizza, Chinese, Indian, or whatever is the
preference of the generous soul (or even an account on our Network,
once we get it running...)

Please leave mail to tcb@gnu.ai.mit.edu, or call me at 617/776-6486
Leave a message if I'm not home!  Thanks!

--


=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
Ted Beatie                                   Yes, this .sig was done in a hurry
(617)776-6486
                   
It's a surreal world out there...
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
Newsgroups: ne.wanted
From: outten@bellcore.com (Todd Outten)
Subject: alto sax wanted
Reply-To: outten@bellcore.com
Organization: /u/outten/.organization
Distribution: ne.forsale,ne.wanted,misc.forsale
Date: 25 Aug 92 22:20:00


if anyone has an alto sax lying around, please let me know -- thanx!
todd