HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: comptec92024@camins.camosun.bc.ca
Subject: Re: Even Mongols may eventually "get it".
Organization: Camosun College
Date: Mon, 11 Jan 1993 04:20:06 GMT

(Dennis O'Connor) writes:
> 
> BTW, Mongols DID get it : they got more of "it" than anyone
> ever had, and more of "it" than anyone ever did again until
> the British Empire and the USSR.
> 
> By "it" of course I mean the _real_ it : real estate !
> 
> And they got "it" the old fashioned way : they took it !
> --
> Dennis O'Connor			doconnor@sedona.intel.com
            
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Yes, the Mongol did take a great deal of real estate, but it was not until 1404
at the battle Ankara that Timur prefected the art of dragging people by the
ears. Although the Mongols knew the basic principle, they had progressed no
farther then leading people by the nose. 

				Mackenzie.
From: ak508@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Raymond Benne)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: Oldest/Youngest Rulers
Date: 9 Jan 1993 04:46:54 GMT
Organization: Case Western Reserve University, Cleveland, OH (USA)
Reply-To: ak508@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Raymond Benne)
NNTP-Posting-Host: slc10.ins.cwru.edu


In a previous article, nusbache@epas.utoronto.ca (Aryk Nusbacher) says:

>Hanno won Eastern Crown when he was 17, and was king at 18.
>
>Aryk
>

But who was the oldest to win crown by his own hand?

This is most interesting to me (being 38)

I believe Tadashi was oldest Midrealm winner but I am not sure how old he was
at the time.

Does anyone know?



Miles Ravenslock d'Arcy
Middle 
-- 
A Second is the duration of 9 192 631 770 periods of the radiation correspondin
to the transition between the two hyperfine levels of the ground state of the
cesium-133 atom. Or about as fast as you can snap your fingers twice real quick
(ME).                                           ak508@Cleveland.freenet.edu
From: SAUNDRSG@qucdn.queensu.ca (Graydon)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: long reigns
Date: 4 Jan 93 07:06:00 GMT
Organization: The Internet

I don't think it is the length of reign that matters so much, as the
idea that the Royalty have to go somewhere every single weekend.

This, to my mind, is quite abjectly mad.  Once a year is *plenty*
of royalty visits for a given group; I would advocate a little less,
but then again there are about 120 groups in the Middle, counting
all the incipient ones.  Given 50 weekends a year, and the Crown and
the Heirs both going somewhere every weekend, this is almost doable.

It's also crazy - Royalty visiting should be special, and unusual.

Graydon
From: Tim@f4229.n124.z1.fidonet.org (Tim)
Sender: FredGate@ocitor.fidonet
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: Heraldric Questions...
Date: Thu, 07 Jan 1993 23:09:18

 CT> To all upon the Rialto doth Charles the clerk send his greetings!

 CT> Parlan MacGillievray writeth:
 CT> > 
 CT> > Then, I must ask, why is it that we gentle people of the Rialto
 CT> > give words with each other with a harshness and inflexability
 CT> > equal to two alley cats battling for the smallest amount of
 CT> > territory?  Must we tear down our fellows, to which we have so
 CT> > *much* in common, because thay disagree or are less informed?

 CT> This suggestion would require less typing from Arval, Tadhg, Tibor, and
 CT> the others involved, and also be easier on the rest of us.

 Aw, you never let us have *any* fun....! (And if you're going to class me
 with those amateurs, I insist on top billing.)

 CT> Once a week, each of these gentles might post a message stating, "I
 CT> disagree with everything that the following have posted in the past week:"
 CT> and then list all the appropriate gentles.  Indeed, they might include
 CT> this as a postscript to a message with some content.

 I like it. I like it a lot. This is almost as useful an idea as the Twit
 Filter....

 CT> Please send flames to me personally, the rest of the Rialto doesn't want
 CT> to see them.  (I don't, either, but I concede that that is the penalty for
 CT> obnoxious remarks like this.)

 Ah, but now that you've "made your bones" we can share the Secret
 Handshake with you....

    Tadhg

 * Origin: Herald's Point * Steppes/Ansteorra * 214-699-0057 (1:124/4229)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
From: mittle@watson.ibm.com (Josh Mittleman)
Subject: Length of Reigns
Date: Tue, 05 Jan 1993 20:30:42 GMT
Disclaimer: This posting represents the poster's views, not necessarily those of IBM
Organization: IBM T.J. Watson Research Center

Greetings from Arval! 

Gwenllian wrote:

>  Again, I feel as if I'm talking out of school, because I don't have 
>  the appropriate reference to hand, but what I recall was that there 
>  was a requirement to change kings a minimum of twice per year.  Lenght 
>  of "term" wasn't specified, simply "a minimum of twice a year".

Sorry, no.  Corpora says absolutely nothing about the length of reigns.  

===========================================================================
Arval Benicoeur                                       mittle@watson.ibm.com
From: Longshot@f19.n291.z1.fidonet.org (Longshot)
Sender: FredGate@ocitor.fidonet
From: ds4p+@andrew.cmu.edu (David Schroeder)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: recreating the middle ages
Date: 9 Jan 93 17:18:02 GMT
Article-I.D.: andrew.QfHtJe200WB7AvG7MW
Organization: Doctoral student, Industrial Administration, Carnegie Mellon, Pittsburgh, PA

Greetings friends,

Graydon writes:

> I've got a problem with this - it involves things I regard as unethical.
>  
> For instance, being a proper Hundred Year's archer would involve (to stick
> to the typical) a tendency to loot anything not bolted down, get roaring
> drunk (if possible), wench indiscriminately, and sometimes shoot at 
> heralds. I have no desire to act like that.
>  
> To recreate an Arthurian romance, being a proper archer involves being part
> of the scenery, since all the characters are either noble or holy and
> sometimes both.
> I like trees, but I don't really want to be one, or indeed any other part
> of the scenery.

But _gee_ Graydon, why not re-create a "Robin Hood" romance?  :-)

[Caveat, folks...  I'm not a pure "romance/fantasy" or "historical/
authenticist" by any means...  I'm in favor of the eternal search
for a practical balance between the two...]

As a member of the Merry Men you may still feel invisible, Graydon,
but that's just because you're wearing Lincoln Green for camoflage.
[Remove tongue from cheek now].

Take care friends -- Bertram

+-----------------------------------------------------------------------+
Bertram of Bearington                                      Dave Schroeder
Debatable Lands/AEthelmearc/East               Carnegie Mellon University
INTERNET: ds4p@andrew.cmu.edu                         412/731-3230 (Home)
+------------------------ PREME * Press On * PREME ---------------------+
      "He indulged in every excess, yes in each licentious whim..." 
From: Longshot@f19.n291.z1.fidonet.org (Longshot)
Sender: FredGate@ocitor.fidonet
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Is there SCA Miniatures' Wargames rules ?
Date: Mon, 04 Jan 1993 00:11:22

A node called Tuomas Viljanen coded to node All,
on 00 Jan 04  03:05:00, about Is there SCA Miniatures' Wargames rules ?;

 TV> Oyez !

 TV> I wonder if there are any miniatures' wargames rules composed by SCA,
 TV> or some "official" SCA miniatures' wargames rules. I am a wargaming
 TV> afficionado and I would be very pleased to have any answers.

 TV> (If there are no SCA miniatures' wargames rules, I could create them
 TV> by myself: they would be, of course, public domain)

lo'
   I have found that the AD&D Battlesystem (for large scale combat) from TSR
works fairly well if you remove the obvious rules (magic).

                                             ~ Aindries



... The way the FBI classifies the SCA, "A para-military organization".
 * Origin: Calontir -- We Deliver. (1:291/19.0)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
From: schuldy@progress.COM (Mark Schuldenfrei)
Subject: Re: Drachenwald Kingdom ideas
Organization: Progress Software Corp.
Date: Fri, 8 Jan 1993 22:42:59 GMT

Gwenllian wrote:
  Okay, I'm a holder of a Grant of Arms, and 3 or 4 other awards/orders. 
  Do I get to have them all mentioned if we hold a March Of Precedence?
  This is kinda silly, in relation to the rest, but I still don't see
  that  you've answered my question, particularly.

Well, it's up to each Kingdom to assign precedence it's own way (according
to Corpora).

If I were in charge (and you all know how bad that would be), I might play
with the following theory:

  The date of your admission to the court (receipt of "Arms" in any form),
  would be your level of precedence.

  Membership in orders, especially orders at a less than Kingdom level,
  would not matter one whit.  Pehaps SCA-wide orders would have carry
  a small amount of weight.

In period, orders, guilds and tournament society membership mattered
somewhat, but those were private matters that a noble you would process
before wouldn't care about (especially membership in guilds).

Does anyone have any period models they can elucidate about?  Were
Rolls of Arms for tournaments kept in a particular order?  Was there
a marching order on Crusade that was based upon "rank"?

I'm groping toward a period sort of order of precedence.  Can I get
some help?

	Tibor
--
Mark Schuldenfrei (schuldy@progress.com)
[I'm just showin' you my opinions: this ain't a gift]
From: branwen@cerebus.ccc.amdahl.com (Karen Williams)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: Lilies VII
Date: 12 Jan 93 01:30:11 GMT
Organization: Amdahl Corporation, Sunnyvale CA

In article <C0psrC.Izu@undergrad.math.waterloo.edu> icklinck@cayley.uwaterloo.ca (Ian "Rhys" Klinck) writes:
>In article <1993Jan11.175350.14702@odin.corp.sgi.com> lindal@goddess.asd.sgi.com (Linda Levy) writes:

>>I know scheduling is difficult when you get this many Kingdoms together,
>>but this seems to be scheduled opposite the West kingdoms Crown Tournement.
>>So the best won't be there. How did this happen?

>Undoubtedly an Eastern plot.

Besides, everyone knows Western fighters are no good in wars; they're
just a bunch of individualistic tourney fighters. :-)

Branwen ferch Emrys
The Mists, the West

--
                                          Karen Williams
                                          branwen@cerebus.ras.amdahl.com
"Don't whine. Warrior women speak in a husky whisper."
  -- Brat Pack #3
From: dgreen@athena (David Greenebaum)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: dollar cost for awards
Date: 12 Jan 1993 23:25:23 GMT
Organization: /etc/organization
NNTP-Posting-Host: athena.berkeley.edu

Hello from Bjalfi!

Quoth Rhys:

> I would like to "upgrade" to a "real
>longbow" eventually, but between the cost and what I know it will do to my
>scores, I'm really hesitant.  I guess if longbows were given special
>consideration (as little as a separate class, even - which, I suppose, would
>require more longbow(wo)men than there are currently, to make it worthwhile),
>that would counter the scoring problem... now if we could only do something
>about that cost thing...

Uh.. 'Scuse me if I'm being dense, but in my copy of the Page, under
the Interkingdom Archery Competition headings, there are results published
for the Open division, Crossbow division, and Traditional Longbow
division.  Is this different from the "separate class" you're
talking about?

---------------------  Bjalfi Thordharson/College of St. Katherine/Province of
 |\  | |\  |\  |// |       the Mists/Principality of the Mists/West Kingdom
 | > | |\\ | \ |/  |   David Greenebaum/University of California/Berkeley, CA
 |<  | | \ |   |   |   dgreen@athena.berkeley.edu, dgreen@garnet.berkeley.edu
 | > | |   |   |   |
 |/  | |   |   |   |   "I make mistakes, but I am on the side of good -- by
---------------------  accident and happenchance." -- the Golux
From: Longshot@f19.n291.z1.fidonet.org (Longshot)
Sender: FredGate@ocitor.fidonet
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Children in the SCA
Date: Mon, 04 Jan 1993 22:22:15

A node called Wilson Heydt coded to node All,
on 00 Jan 07  07:06:00, about Children in the SCA;

 WH> Reply-To: whheydt@PacBell.COM (Wilson Heydt)

 WH> I guess it's time to put my couple of _denier_ into this perennial
 WH> topic....

 WH> I happen to think that one of the very positive aspects of the SCA is
 WH> that children have a much greater chance to be integrated into general
 WH> activities--rather than being shunted aside into "Children's
 WH> Activities."  I will grant the caveat that this is best done with
 WH> "well behaved" children.  However, the more the kids get *included*
 WH> (rather than excluded) the better behaved they're likely to be--and
 WH> the more the get treated well starting with a default assumption that
 WH> they are well-behaved nad treated accordingly, the more likely such
 WH> behavior will be encouraged.

 . . . (Late that night, the editor struck!)

 WH> In addition to the things I've cited, serving at table is something a
 WH> child of fairly tender years can do.  Hit the books and find out at
 WH> what age kids in period were taught what skills.  Modern kids are just
 WH> as smart as their Medieval counterparts--even if they have more
 WH> distractions.  Such research can even be used as lever... "If a child
 WH> of 10 could do that 500 years ago, what's stopping you at 12 from
 WH> learning how?"

lo'
   Many excellent points!   I think that they serve to help bring home that
Children are a responsibility, as well as a privilage.   Like all 
responsibilities and privilages they require a lot of work to turn out well.
   Thank you for an excellent essey.
                                                ~ Aindries


... "The soul's Rialto hath its merchandise."   -  E. B. Browning
 * Origin: Calontir -- We Deliver. (1:291/19.0)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
From: comptec92024@camins.camosun.bc.ca
Subject: Re: non-fighting rulers
Organization: Camosun College
Date: Mon, 4 Jan 1993 20:50:39 GMT

In article <726159969.F00002@ocitor.fidonet>, Tim@f4229.n124.z1.fidonet.org (Tim) writes:
>     Mackenzie wrote:
> 
>  C> It is us who make Royalty special becouse " WE ARE SPECIAL ".
> 
>     As in "Special Olympics" and "Special Education"....
> 
>  * Origin: Herald's Point * Steppes/Ansteorra * 214-699-0057 (1:124/4229)
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Please be "Special" any way you like, or have the abillity to be.
From: Tim@f4229.n124.z1.fidonet.org (Tim)
Sender: FredGate@ocitor.fidonet
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: Name
Date: Thu, 07 Jan 1993 22:50:31

 L>    Could some one please define "Rialto"?   Sorry, had to ask.

 L>  TOA> Name of the "main drag" in Venice.

 L>    Off hand, why is the main drag in Venice called the Rialto?

 "Rialto" means an exchange or mart in Italian. The Rialto in Venice was so
 called because the Exchange was there (kinda like "Wall Street" in New
 York). [Compact Edition of the Oxford English Dictionary, p. 2538]

 * Origin: Herald's Point * Steppes/Ansteorra * 214-699-0057 (1:124/4229)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: Heraldic questions... 
From: bloodthorn@sloth.equinox.gen.nz (Jennifer Geard)
Date: Thu, 07 Jan 93 00:11:29 GMT
Distribution: world
Organization: Lethargy Inc.


Tadhg wrote, one the pronunciation of his name:
  >  Pronouncing it like the first syllable in "tiger" is acceptable. The
  >  Completely Accurate Pronunciation has two barely separated syllables,
  >  approximately "tie-ug" ("tie" as in what goes around your neck, and "ug"
  >  as in what Arval says whenever he sees one of my messages...)

]-)  Thank you, my lord.  That is a small but persistant devil off my 
shoulder.

Pagan
________________________________________________________________________
Jennifer Geard                         bloodthorn@sloth.equinox.gen.nz
Christchurch, New Zealand
From: bloodthorn@sloth.equinox.gen.nz (Jennifer Geard)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: German heraldry 
Distribution: world
Date: Mon, 04 Jan 93 23:08:02 GMT
Organization: Lethargy Inc.

Greetings from Pagan unto Gwenllian,

Apologies, my lady, for failing to reply earlier:  at any given time in the 
past week or so either I've been away from sloth-node or my gateway has been 
down... (or both).

You asked about a readily available source for German terms:  I regret to say 
that I can offer none.  (If anyone can suggest something please let me know).  
Arval has kindly mentioned the linden-leaf line of partition and there seems 
also to have been discussion of nesselblatten -- these are SCA registerable.  
Could I have comments from heralds on one of my favorite German lines of 
partition (for which I do not, I fear, know the German blazon)?  It looks 
like a kiss-curl or (to me) an upside-down wave and koru (awfully PC where I 
live), and is drawn as number 83 on Plate IX (opp. p. 32) of the big Fox-
Davies (1976 reissue) which describes it thus: 

    83 is not an English form ... but a literal translation 
    of the German blazon of No. 83 would be "gules, a snail reversed 
    and issuant from the sinister"  (Fox-Davies, p. 62).

I like it, but I don't know whether it's period.  And besides, it doesn't 
match my name...

I sympathise with the plight of Podunkian heralds worldwide ]-), but 
unfortunately I can't offer much more than the suggestion of supplements to 
the Pic-Dic (what about a loose-leaf hole-punched format?).  I also don't 
think that the body of registerable armory should be limited to what's 
available to the most heraldically challenged.

Pagan le Chaunster 
________________________________________________________________________
Jennifer Geard                         bloodthorn@sloth.equinox.gen.nz
Christchurch, New Zealand
From: bq434@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Michael A. Chance)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Tadhg's Preferred Geographic Area
Date: 8 Jan 1993 21:41:52 GMT
Organization: Case Western Reserve University, Cleveland, OH (USA)
Reply-To: bq434@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Michael A. Chance)
NNTP-Posting-Host: hela.ins.cwru.edu


Hallo!

Tadhg has stated a preferrence for limiting the geographic scope of the SCA
to the area "west of the Rhine, north of the Loire, and south of the
Trent".  Being curious as to what this defines, exactly, I went to my handy
map of Europe (oh, no, not a Norseman with a map of Europe! 8-).  Here then
is what seems to be the area described:

West of the Rhine:

This excludes about 80% of the German (Holy Roman) Empire.  Included are
the Rhineland Palatinate, Luxembourg, Flanders, Brabant, and the southern
half of the Netherlands (from about Utrecht south).

Excluded are Baveria, Franconia, Westphalia, Swabia, Saxony, the north
German heath, Brandenburg, Thuringia, Pomerania, Silesia, Bohemia, Moravia,
Austria, Hungary, Poland, Lithuania, Switzerland, Italy, and all points
east.


North of the Loire:

The Loire fairly neatly bisects modern France.  Included in the area north
of the Loire are Brittany, Normany, Champange, Lorraine, Picardy, Artois,
and the Ile de France.

Excluded are Poitou, Berry, Burgandy, Marche, Limousin, Savoy, the Franche
Comte, Guyenne, Gascony, Anjou, Aquitaine, Languedoc, and Provence.


South of the Trent:

Hard to judge, as the Trent runs mostly south to north.  Being generous, I
took the line from Liverpool to Kingston-on-Hull.  Included are all of
southern England, including Wales and Cornwall.

Excluded are Yorkshire and Northumbria (i.e., the "Danelaw"), as well as
the rest of the Celtic British Isles (primarily Ireland and Scotland).

Obviously excluded, as well, are all of Scandinavia, the Iberian peninsula,
North Africa, the Middle East, and the rest of the globe.

So, Tadhg, have I got it right?


Mikjal Annarbjorn
-- 
Michael A. Chance          St. Louis, Missouri, USA    "At play in the fields
Work: mc3078@sw1sta.sbc.com                             of St. Vidicon"
Play: bq434@cleveland.freenet.edu
      mchance@nyx.cs.du.edu
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
From: blaxson@shade.UWaterloo.ca (Brian A.Laxson)
Subject: Re:  Sca Gaming Rules
Reply-To: balaxson@systems.watstar.uwaterloo.ca
Organization: University of Waterloo
Date: Tue, 5 Jan 1993 15:10:19 GMT

> A node called Tuomas Viljanen coded to node All,
> on 00 Jan 04  03:05:00, about Is there SCA Miniatures' Wargames rules ?;
> 
>  TV> Oyez !
> 
>  TV> I wonder if there are any miniatures' wargames rules composed by                            
> SCA,
 
>  TV> or some "official" SCA miniatures' wargames rules. I am a wargaming
>  TV> afficionado and I would be very pleased to have any answers.
> 
>  TV> (If there are no SCA miniatures' wargames rules, I could create  
them
>  TV> by myself: they would be, of course, public domain)

> lo'
>    I have found that the AD&D Battlesystem (for large scale combat) from  
> TSR
> works fairly well if you remove the obvious rules (magic).
> 
>                                              ~ Aindries

If you want more one on one/ small skirmish rules then take a look at  
RuneQuest.  The author apparently based the combat system on his  
expericiences in the lists of the SCA.  The game is also more realistic  
and it can be fun to see what happens if a knight really did *try* to kill  
a giant.....:-)


Brian Goodheart, The Catatonic


Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
From: jeffs@math.bu.EDU (Jeff Suzuki)
Subject: blow calibration
Organization: The Internet
Date: Mon, 11 Jan 1993 18:36:15 GMT


>> A pig carcass was draped with a piece of padding, then a layer of thick
>> leather, then a layer of riveted mail. The whole mess was then attached
>> to a tree, so it couldn't get loose. A "standard" swing of a broadsword
>> didn't damage the armor much, but did break ribs underneath the armor. 
>> A thin bladed spear went between the links of the mail, through the
>> leather, padding AND the pig and stuck in the tree behind. OUCH.

There's just one thing that makes me a bit suspicious about this
particular experiment; the pig wasn't dodging.  Also, by being tied to
a tree, it couldn't move very much, whereas someone being hit by a
really hard blow would be expected to absorb considerable momentum.
Has anyone done a similar experiment with, say, the carcass weighted
down (i.e., so its mass was approximately that of a man) but able to
move freely?  That would be a more valid test of damage potential.

Fujimoto