From: hackbod@xanth.CS.ORST.EDU (Dianne Hackborn)
Newsgroups: alt.homosexual,alt.transgendered,alt.sex,sci.psychology
Subject: Re: Why?
Date: 8 Nov 92 23:38:16 GMT
Article-I.D.: flop.1dk8d8INNimv
Organization: Buried on the floor somewhere.
NNTP-Posting-Host: xanth.cs.orst.edu

thomas%knoware.ruu.nl@accucx.cc.ruu.nl (Thomas Okken) writes:
>Why would a man who wants to wear a dress stand for being called "TV"? Why
>not realize that our culture is wrong for giving women an area of
>self-expression - their clothes - and denying this to men?

My SO occasionally crossdresses...  While I would agree that it is a
way to express herself, I don't think that she is interested to the
clothes themselves but rather their association with "masculine."
While I am not a TV, I think that saying that males crossdress simply
because society doesn't offer them the ability to express themselves
with their clothes misses the point completely.  The act of
crossdressing only uses the clothes as a way to express the opposite
gender and depends on society's interpretation of those clothes as
belonging to that gender.

>And what about men who want to be women? My heart goes out to all of them,
>and given this culture we live in, I would prefer to be a woman as well. The
>male role is so unnatural, so stressful, so impersonal, so relentlessly
>competitive. No wonder the conditioning of males fails so much more often
>than that of females - the latter can be themselves so much more in our
>culture.

I spent most of my life trying to avoid being aggressive, competitive
and otherwise Stereotypically Masculine as an attempt to make some
kind of compromise with my transsexualism.  However, I discovered that
whatever "masculine" or "feminine" roles society expects of me really
have nothing to do with my identity as a woman.  In fact, as I become
more comfortable with myself I find it easier to accept these
"masculine" parts.  Not because society gives women more freedom to
express themselves, but because these parts of myself are no longer
threatening to my self-identity as a woman.

And if you really think that women have some kind of special pass to be
accepted by society no matter who they are...  Think again.

>No wonder there are so many more gays than lesbians. No wonder there are so
>many more "male-to-female-transsexuals" than "female-to-male-transsexuals".

Actually, I don't think there is really a much larger number of MtF
than FtM transsexuals.  But the occurance of transsexualism in females
has only recently started to get as much publicity as in males, and
the surgery is not nearly as successful and much more expensive.
Additionally, males in our society tend to make more money than
females and thus are more likely to be able to afford the procedure.

>And as for cross-dressers: women in pants, or even suits, are a common sight
>these days. But for a man to wear women's clothes in public was illegal in
>the Netherlands (a supposedly tolerant country!) as recently as 1976.

Again, women have more socially acceptable choices in clothing, but
crossdressing is an act of "wearing the clothes of the opposite
gender."

While some people may complain that society is unfair for not allowing
them to wear the clothes that they want to, I wonder how many would
want to wear a skirt in the same way if it was thought of as a
masculine piece of clothing?

>Any man who finds himself in an inner conflict because of unMale longings
>should ask himself "why?" until he finds the answer. The answer is always
>there to be found, despite of what psychologists say. If you suffer from such
>conflicts, a psychologist will be of no help to you: they will simply attach
>a label to you and maybe try to "help you accept it". Real help would be to
>resolve the conflict!

Well, I've been seeing a psychologist and I don't share your opinion
of them.  Yes, a lot of time is spent helping me to "accept it."  But
that has been what I needed to do to resolve the conflict - to be able
to accept myself as I am.  What conflict are you talking about?  I
don't care if some people think I'm a sick weirdo [and I'll even admit
that I enjoy being weird. :)] and feel no pressure at all to express
an traditionally masculine behaviour.

>Remember: loving a man does not automatically mean you cannot love a woman.

And loving a woman doesn't mean you cannot love a man.  I'm bi. :)

>And wanting to be a woman does not mean you cannot be a man. Ask yourself
>what you mean by "being a man". When I hear someone say: "Real men don't wear
>dresses", I would like to answer: "What, you think my dick falls of when I
>put on a dress"? (But I don't; I prefer not to get in barroom fights.)
>Or do you think maleness equates with sexual performance? Having problems
>with sex doesn't mean you are not a proper man. It usually means that you
>expect too much from it, that's all. Sex is not a competitive sport!

I want to be a woman and have absolutely no desire to be a man.  And
it certainly has nothing at all to do with my perceived sexual
performance.  I spent many years avoiding getting into a relationship
with someone until I could tell them about myself; I didn't have sex
until I was 21, but it was a decision that I made.  And when I did
have sex with the woman that I had came out to, I made one attempt at
normal penile-vaginal sex just because I thought that I should at
least "make the attempt."  However, I really didn't want to do it and
I definately wasn't dissapointed that it didn't work out.  :)

----------------------------------------------------------
Dianne Hackborn                 The healthy .sig:
hackbod@xanth.cs.orst.edu     - Low in saturated quotes
BIX: dhack / IRC: Dianne      - No artificial disclaimers
-- 
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Dianne Hackborn                 The healthy .sig:
hackbod@xanth.cs.orst.edu     - Low in saturated quotes
BIX: dhack / IRC: Dianne      - No artificial disclaimers