From: solman@athena.mit.edu (Jason W Solinsky)
Subject: Re: Institutional racism 
Organization: Massachusetts Institute of Technology
Distribution: usa,local
Date: Thu, 24 Dec 1992 00:16:02 GMT

In article <1992Dec21.143251.1@skyblu.ccit.arizona.edu>, ohall@skyblu.ccit.arizona.edu writes:
|> In article <1992Dec21.040250.21819@athena.mit.edu>, solman@athena.mit.edu (Jason W Solinsky) writes:
|> > In article <1992Dec15.092141.1@milori.ccit.arizona.edu>, ohall@milori.ccit.arizona.edu writes:
|> > |> In article <BzAvB2.38v@quake.sylmar.ca.us>, brian@quake.sylmar.ca.us (Brian K. Yoder) writes:
|> > |> > In article <1992Dec14.112048.1@milori.ccit.arizona.edu> ohall@milori.ccit.arizona.edu writes:
|> > |> >>In article <1992Dec12.145948.923@blkbox>, collins@blkbox (Chad R. Collins) writes:
|> > |> >>> kls30@cd.amdahl.com (Kent L. Shephard) writes:
|> > |> >  
|> > |> >>  Maybe it's because we are the most easily identifiable.  I have known blacks
|> > |> >>  who look white and they have expressed the discrimination the face when it is
|> > |> >>  discovered that they are black.  White females in the work force are commonly
|> > |> >>  faced with the problem of it not being discovered that they are married to
|> > |> >>  a black man.  Co-workers of mine experienced it and told me so. 
|> > |> > 
|> > |> > So, what are they worried about?  Being fired because they are married to
|> > |> > a black man?  I think in most places all it would get you is a few unwelcome
|> > |> > stares.  More than anything I think this is mostly just a case of the
|> > |> > unusual attracting attention.  I KNOW it makes a big difference where you
|> > |> > live too.  Here in Hollywood, I see mixed race couples all the time and I
|> > |> > rarely take more than a passing notice of it (and neither does anyone else).
|> > |> > In less-integrated places (places where mixed marriages are more rare) such
|> > |> > a relationship would probably attract some attention, but do you really
|> > |> > think it would get you fired?
|> > |> >
|> > |>   Why should they chance it?  Besides who enjoys being stared at because you 
|> > |>   are married to one of another race.  This nation is terribly behind.  It
|> > |>   hurts and it is sick!
|> > 
|> > Don't be a fool. Everybody notices the unusual most often. It is human nature
|> > and there is nothing wrong with it. If they don't enjoy being stared at they
|> > should avoid unusual things. In Arizona, Inter-racial couples are unusual.
|> > I pity anybody who is so shy, they are distrubed by a little extra attention.
|> >
|>   A little extra attention.  Is that what you call it?  Why is it to most of
|>   you whites I have been conversing with everything that bothers me and other
|>   blacks seems to be little?  
|> 
|>   It may seem little now!


I have encountered a very strong version of the bias against inter-racial
relationships. I am aware that it can be bad, but there is nothing wrong
with other people expressing their opinions about your decisions. If you can
not take additional attention, it is probably a mistake to be involved in
such a relationship. (This is probably a good test for weeding out bad
relationships anyway. If it matters what others think that your relationship
isn't that strong.) Some people honestly believe that there is something
intriniscally flawed about an inter-racial relationship. They should be allowed
to express this opinion. You don't have the right to force somebody to change
their beliefs just because they don't agree with you. This would be like a KKK
person asking for compensation because people won't hire him because he is
racist. If people don't agree with your decisions, they have a right to express
it.
 
|> > |> >>  It's kind of bad when in a white school system a white girl says to a black
|> > |> >>  boy "I like you but my dad would not approve...".  
|> > |> > 
|> > |> > I think these days most parents would be a bit more open-minded than that
|> > |> > don't you?
|> > 
|> > Yeah, right? It hasn't happened yet. A large fraction of the people who are
|> > parents now would get really pissed. Fortunatelly, this is not the case for
|> > the people who will be parents in years to come. Give it 20 years.
|
|>   That remains to be seen.  
|>   Hey joker, why didn't you speak up when response > |> > above was originally
|>   posted?  I guess there is a white man who doesn't live in Hollywood who 
|>   agrees that parents aren't open minded. 
|>   If you agree that this large fraction of parents would be pissed, then why 
|>   do you have trouble believing that there is extreme predjudice in the job
|>   market, etc.?  Where does this large fraction of parents work?

There is a huge prejudice. I have lived it. And I know that it shouldn't
matter. Who cares? If somebody decides not to hire me or to harrass me
because of a personal decision that I make, that is clearly not a job
or person that I am interested in.
|> 
|>   Give it 20 years!! That's a common expression.  Things are getting better.
|>   Give it time.  The check is in the mail.

They have gotten better. If things stopped getting better, that would be one
thing, but with consistent progress it is sheer foolishness to complain.

|> > |>   As a brother stated earlier, why so long after our so called freedom we
|> > |> finally get the supreme court to remove laws used to oppress blacks off of the 
|> > |> books.  Do you understand the damage that has been done for such a long period
|> > |> of time.  This nation lied and said we were free when we were not.  Like I said
|> > |> this baby is slow.
|> > 
|> > You were completelly free. 100%. This freedom included the ability (guaranteed
|> > in the constitution) to move from one state to another if you disliked the laws.
|> > This guarantee (made over 200 years ago) was included for prcisely this reason.
|>
|>   Why should there be laws I wouldn't like in a particular state unless they
|>   were racist?   No one legislated racism in the work force 200 years ago yet
|>   it existed.  Don't tell me about your laws!!!  I learned from whites that
|>   rules are made to be broken.

It was created to prevent any state from enslaving its populace. The way to
absolutely prevent slavery from existing is to guarantee a method of leaving.
That is what our founding fathers were thinking of. It had nothing to do
with blacks. They were looking out for their own hide at the time. But it has
applied for blacks too since 1865.

Jason W. Solinsky
Newsgroups: alt.discrimination,soc.culture.african.american,misc.education