From: u907736@postoffice.utas.edu.au (Edmund Chia)
Subject: Re: **** Australian citizens kidnapped by Malaysian Prince ****
Organization: University of Tasmania
Date: Fri, 24 Jul 1992 01:34:42 GMT

In article <thos.711874284@suite.sw.oz.au>, thos@suite.sw.oz.au (Thomas Cohen) writes:
> 
> In <1992Jul22.045043.14744@ntuix.ntu.ac.sg> eoahmad@ntuix.ntu.ac.sg (Othman Ahmad) writes:
> 
> >In article <2774@ariel.its.unimelb.EDU.AU> stong@ariel.its.unimelb.EDU.AU (Simon Tong) writes:
> 
> >: Two Australian citizens, both aged under 10, have been kidnapped
> >: by their father, who happens to be a Malaysian Prince.  The natural
> >: parents are divorced and the mother has sole custody.  The Australian 
> 
> >Who gave the custody? Malaysia or Australian government?
> 
> That should have nothing to do with it. They were Australian
> citizens, presumably. If that is the case, then this guy is 
> a kidnapper. I mean, how could the Malaysian Govt. or legal 
> system give custody over citizens of another country?


Actually, that has A LOT to do with it. If we PRESUMED that the wife was a Malaysian
at the time of her marriage, and her kids were Malaysians at the time of their birth,
then it must be asked - HOW did they become Australians subsequently? Did the mother
'kidnap' them and bring them to Australia where she and they became Australian citizens?
So far, we have heard a great deal of speculation but very few pertinent facts. If we
presumed that the Malaysian courts granted the divorce and the custody to the mother,
then there should be no problem - prince or no prince, we can reasonably expect the
Malaysian government(Federal) to return the children, and Daddy will be dealt with.

 
> >: It is incredible that a Malaysian Prince can just came to Australia,
> >: kidnapped the children and vanished.  I know he must have unusual
> 
> >Incredible isn't it? Especially against the children's will. The 9 year olds
> >can already shout at the airports, airplanes etc.
> 
> If he can get out of Australia without passing through customs,
> immigration etc. then he would have no trouble keeping them quiet
> if he wanted to.


I think that a less sensational and exciting explanation for how the children
could be bought out of the country - IF THEY ARE REALLY OUT OF THE COUNTRY(it has
only been rumours of sightings so far) - is for the father to apply for passports
and then bring them out legally. He is their father afterall. As for keeping the
kids quiet, whats the problem, they are kids and they have had no reason to be
afraid ofhim. On the contrary, if he is in the habit of visiting them, they probably
enjoy his visits, presents and all(as is the norm) and might even look forward to
an outing with him.


 
> The base facts as I see them - the kids were Australian citizens, 
> due all the protection of any Australian citizen. By taking them 
> from their rightful custodians (mother and stepfather), the Malaysian
> father broke several Australian laws, and intefered with Australia's
> Sovereignity. (sp?) 


Again, I believe that the above is based on assumptions which have yet to be
substantiated. Based on the existing 'facts', it is possible to suggest that
a 'kidnapping' had occurred, it is also logically possible that the father took
his kids bushwalking and they were all lost in the bush. 


>It matters little in law that a Malaysian court
> has granted the father custody - they shouldn't be out of Australia.
> What I'm almost certain will happen though, is that our government
> (who is supposed to protect us), will not do anything except perhaps
> provide some legal help in Malaysia, which will be useless as the
> courts have already come out in favour of the father.
> -- 
> thos cohen  				       |Softway Pty Ltd
>  The best way to make a Japanese engineer wince|ACSnet:         thos@softway.oz
>  is (when talking about an NSX) to say slowly  |UUCP: ...!uunet!softway.oz!thos
>  'but its _not a Ferrari_ is it?' R.Bulgin, CAR|Internet:    thos@softway.oz.au
> 


On what basis do you say that a Malaysian court had granted the father custody?
On what basis do you claim that a Malaysian court would favour the father, regardless
of the facts of the case? I will make allowances for your opinions born of loyalty to
your country which lead you to believe that Australia is a better place to bring up the
kids. However, your other remarks tend to reflect a prejudice of the Malaysian government
and courts which has yet to be justified in this instance.

Edmund

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