From: silber@m.cs.uiuc.edu (Ami A. Silberman)
Subject: Re: To Prof. Petschek on fantasization ...
Organization: University of Illinois, Dept. of Comp. Sci., Urbana, IL
Date: Fri, 24 Jul 1992 17:21:41 GMT

kimmyd@bnr.ca (Kimmy Posey P920) writes:

>As far as people dreaming about raping and being raped and then being appalled
>at engaging in such activities I totally reject the idea for the former and
>whole-heartedly agree with the latter.  How could anyone who dreams about rape
>be horrified by the idea?  Doesn't compute.  And *ANYONE* who is raped is
>horrified whether they fantasized about it before hand or not. 

Because a fantasy about rape usually bears the same relation to rape that
a fantasy about being a cop does to police work, or a fantasy about being
a sports hero does to athletics, or... Most aggressor rape fantasys involve
a victim who is, at heart, willing. This willingness is known apriori. Often
this "victim" is not even a specific person. The basic "script" is "I go
up to this person, throw hir to the bed and make mad passionate love. At first
s/he doesn't want to but the strength of my passion persuades hir and they
end up begging me for more."
The typical "victim" fantasy has a script of "I'm approached by a sexy stranger
who procedes to rip off my clothes and make mad passionate love to me. At first
I struggle and don't want to (although I kind of secretly do want to), but
as s/he pleasures me my inhibitions go away and I beg for more."
	Not very much like an actual rape, eh? Of course, if one actually thinks
that this is the way the world works, that one can actually do this sort of 
thing, that if you force someone into sex they will enjoy it, or that one should
say no when one means yes, then one has problems. For most people, fantasies of
any sort are both a way of experimenting with things one would never do, or
might want to do, and a way of indulging in activities which one has decided not
to do due to reasons of impossibility, imprudence, illegality, personal distaste
etc. (As an analogy, Civil War reenactment groups are very popular. They bear
little resemblence to the real Civil War. People don't get killed, they don't
have lice, their health is better, and none of the participants keep slaves.
People who join these groups do so because they enjoy the activities of these
groups, and desire to take the "fun" part of the Civil War without taking
the "unfun" parts. Similarly with the Society for Creative Anachronism.
They take the fun parts of the middle ages (tournements, chivalry, arts),
and leave out the actual death, health problems, plauge, pogroms etc.)
Most sexual fantasy is like this. As an example, suppose that I have, as
my favorite fantasy, that three lovely people in the class I TA come on to
me when they visit me during my office hours, I respond, we spend a lovely
hour doing all sorts of kinky things, and they leave. Actually indulging
in such behaviour is something that, for a large number of reasons, I am
unlikely to do. It is unprofessional and against the campus code of ethics.
I'm in a stable relationship. It's risky from a health point of view.
Does having this fantasy mean that I take risks of my health, that I cheat
on my partner, and that I am unprofessional?


-- 
ami silberman - janitor of lunacy
	silber@cs.uiuc.edu