HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: music@moravian.edu (Steve Heller)
Subject: Re: Mahler and all that Rott
Date: Tue, 29 Sep 92 19:18:49 EDT

In <1992Sep29.174248.16005@fid.morgan.com> steve@fid.morgan.com (Steve Apter) writes:

>In article <1992Sep28.232232.11517@nuscc.nus.sg> Smoliar@ISS.nus.sg (Stephen Smoliar) writes:
>>
>>I found the following material about Rott in the de La Grange Mahler biography:
>>
>>	....  Before his innocence was finally proved, Rott
>>	went insane and was shut up in an asylum, where he used his
>>	manuscripts as toilet paper, saying:  "That's what human works
>>	are worth!"
>>

>This is graphically depicted in Ken Russell's Mahler film, though I seem to
>recall the subject being Wolf.
> 
Yes, it was Wolf, who also went insane...
-- 
*-------------------------------------------------------------------------*
#   export meaning_of_life=$(eval 'grep -i truth mind_of_god | sort -u')  #
# Work: music@moravian.edu  <#!AMIGA!#>  Home: moravian.edu!vortex!lothar #
*-------------------------------------------------------------------------*
From: zorro@picasso.ocis.temple.edu (John Grabowski)
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
Subject: Re: five worst classical recordings
Date: 27 Sep 92 14:06:25 GMT
Organization: Temple University
X-Newsreader: Tin 1.1 PL5


Bernstein/Stern: Beethoven Violin concerto, 1959, Columbia.  HORRIBLE!!!
(Bernstein, that is; Stern is fine.)

von Karajan/Christian Ferras: Beethoven Violin Concerto, mid-eighties, DGG.
Awful violin-playing.  Can hear him changing strings, missing entire passages,
and his tone is painful.  Herbie sounds like he'd rather be sleeping.  This
record went out of print shortly after it came out.  No surprise.


John Grabowski
zorro@picasso.ocis.temple.edu
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
From: wikla@cs.Helsinki.FI (Arto Wikla)
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
Subject: Re: Encores? Unusual performance by the Melbourne Symphony Orche
Date: 30 Sep 92 10:50:55 GMT
Organization: University of Helsinki, Finland

Mike_Quigley writes:
>> Richard A. Muirden writes:
>>
>> The pianist, an american japanese was wonderful, and he was so nice, when
>> he finished he *hugged* the conductor...
>>
>> Jon Kimura Parker, piano.
>>
>What kind of program notes do you have? J.K. Parker is CANADIAN!! 

I thought Canada was in America, but I must check my atlas!! :-)

Arto Wikla Europe (Finland (Helsinki))

Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
From: hudu@well.sf.ca.us (Scott Marley)
Subject: Re: Haydn symphony recommendations?
Organization: Whole Earth 'Lectronic Link
Date: Tue, 29 Sep 1992 23:45:09 GMT


Anyone who likes "La Poule" ought to try the rest of Haydn's "Paris"
symphonies.  They're numbers 82 through 87.  My favorite recording is
currently two discs by the Orchestra of the Age of Enlightenment, led by
Sigiswald Kuijken, on the Virgin Classics label.  (One disc is 82-84, the
other is 85-87.)  These are astonishingly wonderful performances.

That comment about "if you're looking for some excellent Haydn, get some
Mozart" is pretty dumb.  Haydn and Mozart were after different things in
their music, and both were complete masters of their respective styles.

Anyway, you might consider that of Mozart's 50-odd symphonies, about a dozen
are masterpieces worth listening to repeatedly; of Haydn's 106 symphonies,
I'd say about three-quarters are of similar quality.  You're missing out on
an awful lot of great music if you dismiss Haydn unthinkingly as Mozart's
inferior.

Scott Marley
hudu@well.sf.ca.us
From: Mike_Quigley@mindlink.bc.ca (Mike Quigley)
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
Subject: Re: Dido and Aneas -- Reminds Me...
Date: 28 Sep 92 03:11:44 GMT
Organization: MIND LINK! - British Columbia, Canada
Distribution: world

(to get back to that "mindless thread")...

Dildo and Anus
And what about Pelly's Ass and Melly's Hand?
From: rodean@fc.hp.com (Bruce Rodean)
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
Subject: Re: Why switch to CD?
Date: 5 Oct 92 21:43:45 GMT
Article-I.D.: fc.Bvo4Cx.5Ls
Organization: Hewlett-Packard Co., Fort Collins, CO
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1.4 PL6]

Try this experiment with your cassettes:  play the second, fourth,
seventh, first, and third track in that order.  Of course I don't do
that much with classical CDs, but often do with other musical genres.
There was one CD I recall hearing about which had two different endings
to the same piece of music (the composer had changed things at one
point) and you could program your CD player to play the sequence which
you preferred.

--
Bruce Rodean                          Hewlett-Packard Company
rodean@fc.hp.com
From: dube@milton.u.washington.edu (Ric Dube)
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
Subject: Haydn symphony recommendations?
Date: 27 Sep 92 06:32:10 GMT
Article-I.D.: milton.dube.717575530
Organization: University of Washington


     I have just recently started listening to classical music and have
determined that a lot of music from the late 1700's appeals to me.  I
especially like Haydn's "La Poule".  Would anyone be able to recommend
any of his other symphonies which may have a similar feel?  I'm not
really looking for any recordings in particular, but just his symphonies
which are generally considered his best compositions.   
Thanx!

Dan-O
From: dbrooks@penge.osf.org (David Brooks)
Subject: Re: Who wrote "A Midsummer Night's Dream"?
Organization: Open Software Foundation
	<BvHJFu.9ox@comp.vuw.ac.nz>
Date: 2 Oct 92 16:23:45

brian@comp.vuw.ac.nz (Brian Boutel) writes:
> And Britten did compose an operatic version of A Midsummer Night's Dream, I
> saw it performed (in German) in Osnabruck, I think, in the early '60s. My
> hosts were somewhat bemused. Their only reaction was that they thought they
> preferred German Music.

One of Britten's funniest pieces of music is the play put on by the
mechanicals.  To parallel Shakespeare's parody of Romeo and Juliet, Britten
delivers a delightful parody of Grand Opera.  It segue's into one of the
most haunting nocturnes I've ever heard.

I just thought of another entry for the Dan Quayle Operatic Role contest:
Starveling (Moon) in MSND...
--
David Brooks					dbrooks@osf.org
Open Software Foundation			uunet!osf.org!dbrooks
Four more months!  Four more months!
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
From: gustavo@dent.uchicago.edu (Gustavo Comezana)
Subject: Re: Which forza/carlos/ballo to buy?
Organization: Dept. of Mathematics, U. of Chicago
Distribution: usa
Date: Tue, 29 Sep 1992 15:32:55 GMT

My two cents: for Don Carlos, go for Giulini (EMI). Impressive cast,
impressive conducting, impressive recording. This is not only my
opinion, but that of a large number of knowledgeable aficionados I
have talked to. The text is more complete than the one used by
Karajan, but it is not the original, French version. A word of
warning, however: I have heard the LP's only, and I have read a
strange comment (in the now defunct Ovation magazine) about the bells
in the Auto-da-Fe scene having gotten lost in the CD transfer. I do
not know whether this should be interpreted literally or it is a
figure of speech, but caveat emptor.

As for Ballo, I recently had a chance to listen to the Muti recording
(also EMI, midprice), and I thought it was excellent (Domingo in
particular is in great voice). However, I hasten to point out that one
listen is not enough to judge a performance, therefore I may be under
a superficial impression.  One should never lose sight of the fact
that recordings are things one lives with for a long period of time,
and little flaws that would be absolutely forgivable and forgettable
on stage (or in a one-time listen) become maddeningly irritating with
repetition.

                               G.C.
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
From: smoliar@argon.iss.nus.sg (stephen smoliar)
Subject: Celibidache in Singapore
Reply-To: Smoliar@ISS.nus.sg (Stephen Smoliar)
Organization: Institute of Systems Science, NUS, Singapore
Date: Tue, 6 Oct 1992 02:19:55 GMT


I do not really have time to write a lengthy report.  However, I figured that I
had better post an article to the effect that I DID here Celibidache conduct
the Munich Philharmonic Orchestra here in Singapore last Friday night.  There
were only two works on the program:  Mozart #39 and Beethoven #5.  Considering
his Bruckner repertoire, this was a rather light-weight program.  However, it
is unclear that Singapore is ready for Bruckner;  so a couple of universally
accepted war-horses (which tend to receive almost daily airing on our excuse
for a classical radio station) probably made for the most appropriate
selection.

Needless to say, Celibidache did not conduct these works as if they were
war-horses.  The performances were fresh and alive, raising the ears to
attend to new perspectives with every phrase.  Some might accuse the Mozart
of having been two slow.  My guess is that the slower tempo was meant to
accommodate the larger orchestra.  He wanted to both work with
nineteenth-century resources and have the music heard.  The only
way to keep the detail from being drowned out would be to play everything
slower.  The result certainly felt slower, but it was still the most
interesting reading I have ever heard.

The Beethoven tempi were closer to expectations.  Here there was always
flirtation with the brink of control.  Indeed, at one point he had the
violins sawing away with so much energy that they returned to a piano
passage on open strings only to find that those strings were now out
tune!  However, this was a minor quibble.  There are so few opportunities
to hear "real" Western music performances in Singapore that this evening
was a genuine treat.  My only regret was that Michelangeli was not part
of this tour.  (He will only join up in Tokyo on October 15 for two
performances of the Schumann concerto.)
-- 
Stephen W. Smoliar; Institute of Systems Science
National University of Singapore; Heng Mui Keng Terrace
Kent Ridge, SINGAPORE 0511
Internet:  smoliar@iss.nus.sg
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
From: bmtong@cucs11.cs.cuhk.hk (Tong Bo-Ming)
Subject: Re: Mahler 1
Organization: Faculty of Engineering, The Chinese U. of Hong Kong
Date: Fri, 2 Oct 1992 02:22:21 GMT

rbrooks1@cc.swarthmore.edu (Rob Brooks) writes:

>In article <QH7QBXJN@cc.swarthmore.edu>, enute1@cc.swarthmore.edu.cmccon1
>(Daniel Gottlieb) writes:
>> 
>> 	I realize that this may open myself up to a deluge of replies, but I would
>> like to hear about all the favorite recordings of Mahler 1 out there.  My
>> personal favorite is the most recent Bernstein D.G. with the Concertgebow,
>> but I've heard that the new Tenstett (spelling?) C.S.O. live recording on
>> Angel/E.M.I. is just incredible.  Any advice?
>> 
stuff deleted...
>greatest Mahler conductor ever) and Solti/LSO.

>Rob

	I have a complete cycle of Solti/CSO (DECCA).  I bought it simply
because it's cheap.  The early symphonies, including No.1, are excellent,
but from No. 5 (70s, not the latest one) onwards, it's less satisfactory.

	I would also like to hear about all the favourite recordings of
Mahler's 9th and Song of the Earth.  Any suggestions ?

 ________________________________________
|                                        |
| Was entstanden ist, das muB vergehen ! |   From Mahler 2, of course.
| Was vergangen, auferstehen !   ________|___________________________
|_______________________________|                                    |
                                | All that is created must die.      |
Tong Bo-Ming                    | All that has died must rise again. |
                                |____________________________________|
email:bmtong@cucs11.cs.cuhk.hk
From: mgresham@dscatl.UUCP (Mark Gresham)
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
Subject: Re: Margaret Hillis to leave Chicago Symphony
Date: 30 Sep 92 19:52:23 GMT
Reply-To: mgresham@dscatl.UUCP (Mark Gresham)
Organization: Digital Systems Co,  Atlanta, Ga

In article <CB.92Sep29134034@tamarack13.timbuk> cb@tamarack13.timbuk (Chris Brewster) writes:
>Jack Hamilton writes:
>
>   BTW, I also had the opportunity to sing under Margaret Hillis, and
>   she is terrific.  And that voice!
>
>For those who don't know what Jack is referring to, Hillis's speaking
>voice is about as low as my father's (and he sang bass in her chorus).

And Margaret smokes like a furnace. :-(
  Although she is retiring from Chicago (actually delayed a year
due to the selections process; last year wa supposed to have been
her last!) she is not retiring from active conducting, but freeing
herself from the day-to-day of Chicago to accept many guest
conducting invitations.


Cheers,

--Mark Gresham

dscatl!mgresham@gatech.edu

==========================
From: lms@TorreyPinesCA.ncr.com (Max Stern 310-524-6152)
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
Subject: Re: Orchestras/conductors -- corrections
Date: 2 Oct 92 00:09:16 GMT
Organization: NCR (Torrey Pines Development Center)
Disclaimer: This posting does not neccessarily reflect the opinions of NCR.

Incoming music director of Los Angeles Philharmonic is Esa Pekka
Salonen.
-- 

 |\/|  /_\  \/
 |  | /   \ /\                      Max.Stern@TorreyPinesCA.ncr.com
From: gr@st-andrews.ac.uk (Gavin Ramsay)
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
Subject: Re: Lincoln portrait & Prokofiev
Date: 27 Sep 92 13:44:15 GMT
Organization: St. Andrews University, Scotland.

>>I'd like to hear Gorby doing the voice-over for Prokofiev's "20th Aniversary
>>Cantata" -- the bits where Lenin's "Take control of the pumping stations and
>>telegraph offices" speech and Stalin's "Lenin funeral" speech are set to music.
>>Was there ever a recording available of this (not by Mikhail Sergeeyvich
>>needles to say). 
>
> I noticed that a recording of this has just come out on Chandos (I think)
>- anyway, it's part of Naeme Jervi's continuing survey of all northern
>European/Scandinavian/Russian music, in particular Prokofiev. The 
>advert I saw said the recording `includes the voice of Lenin'
>
>
>>Bill
Yes this is just out on Chandos, he conducts the Philharmonia Orch and Chorus.
The voice of Lenin is spoken by Genady Rozhesdevsensky (sp). I was at the 
concert they did of this just before the recording and it was an experience 
if nothing else. It features a huge orchestra, 2 brass bands and harmonia
ensemble (?) 'squeeze boxes'. Not on of his best works but worth a listen!
Gavin Ramsay

C
C
C
C
Yes it  is out on Chandos. He condu
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
From: Bill_P_Pearce@cup.portal.com
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
Subject: Question for musicologists about Schumann
Date: Fri,  2 Oct 92 22:17:44 PDT
Organization: The Portal System (TM)

   I picked up and have been reading a fascinating book about Schumann
this week: "Schumann, The Inner Voices of a Musical Genius", by Peter
Ostwald, sort of a psycoanalytic study of Schumann, and one observation
in the preface piqued my curiosity.  The author (writing in 1985) mentions
that in the last ten years a great deal of information about Schumann has
become available, including diaries and household books for nearly every
day of his life from age seventeen.  It seems very surprising to me that
all of such material had not been pored over and examined and published
in great detail much earlier, given how famous Schumann is and how thorough
I perceive German scholarship to be (I don't know if I am right, but I
have always had the impression that German scholars tend to produce huge
detailed studies of material like that).  Did the diaries and household
books only come to light in some archive in recent years, or did it make
any difference that Zwickau, where he was born, was in East Germany?
       Bill Pearce
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
From: dbarker@spang.Camosun.BC.CA (Deryk Barker)
Subject: Re: Orchestras/conductors
Organization: Camosun College, Victoria B.C, Canada
Date: Fri, 2 Oct 1992 03:54:03 GMT

In article <PQ8QBMD7@cc.swarthmore.edu> rbrooks1@cc.swarthmore.edu (Rob Brooks) writes:
>In article <1992Oct1.042835.13776@nuscc.nus.sg>, art30248@nusunix1.nus.sg
[....]
>BBC Symphony  - Colin Davis


NO!!! It's Andrew Davis. Colin was there in the late 1960s. He is now
at the Bavarian Radio SO. I think Celibidache is with the South German
Radio SO.

Deryk Barker, Computer Science Dept., Camosun College, Victoria B.C.

Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
From: bmtong@cucs11.cs.cuhk.hk (Tong Bo-Ming)
Subject: Re: Bruckner editions
Organization: Faculty of Engineering, The Chinese U. of Hong Kong
Date: Tue, 6 Oct 1992 03:57:53 GMT

cb@tamarack13.timbuk (Chris Brewster) writes:

>Tong Bo-Ming:
>   >	I don't think there is a better Bruckner 8th than Giulini.  His 
>   >9th (DG) is also great, except the recording.  Why didn't he record 
>   >a complete cycle, or the 7th at the very least ?

>Deryk Barker:
>   He did - the 7th with the VPO is on DG 419 627-2. (Or my copy is anyway).

>Any discussion of Bruckner 8 (especially Giulini's recording) should
>mention the question of editions.  Some of the best-known recordings
>(such as Haitink) use Haas, and Giulini uses Novak.  If you know and
>love the work, you *will* notice the difference--it's not trivial.
>(Haas was the version I knew first, and my first hearing of Novak was
>striking and intriguing.)  Following is a repost on this subject:

>Symphony #8 : A confusing case! Nowak has edited a version of the 1887
>original score, but it appears that Bruckner himself was dissatisfied
>with this one, and he responded to (conductor) Hermann Levi's criticisms
>with a thoroughgoing revision which Haas (and Cooke) considered to be
>"authentic Bruckner improvements" except for some cuts which were
>apparently influenced by Schalk.  So Haas came up with a version which
>incorporated the 1890 improvements but restores the 1887 material in
>those places where Schalk's cuts leave gaping holes.  Nowak's edition of
>the 1890 version rejects this approach as too conjectural, and presents
>the Bruckner-Schalk version of 1890.  Cooke prefers the Haas version as
>closest to what Bruckner's own rewrite would have been without Schalk's
>interference.

True, the only thing I am dissatisfied is that Giulini used the Nowak edition.
That passage just after the exposition in the 4th mvt., which may well be one
of the most beautiful passage in the piece, together with several others,
are missing.  Worst still, after such cuts the piece started to sound
disproportionate.  However, the choice of edition is much a matter of
personal taste.  Moreover, it takes a very good conductor to hide those
cuts to make them sound seamless.  Personally, I like the Haas edition
better.  The editions are different, but not so differently as to make them
become two different pieces, right ?

Tong Bo Ming
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
From: music@moravian.edu (Steve Heller)
Subject: Re: Beethoven's 32nd Sonata
Date: Mon, 5 Oct 92 12:52:27 EDT

In <1apr01INN3mv@news.aero.org> marcus@aero.org (Leo Marcus) writes:

>The Beethoven "jazzy" variation, at the climax of a gradual increase
>in rhythmic complexity starting from an almost static theme and
>progressing step-by-step adding on syncopations, finally breaks the
>bounds of propriety and throws itself around orgiastically until it is
>spent. The movement then settles down for some much needed rest before
>moving on to a higher spiritual plane.

I like that, Leo!
-- 
*-------------------------------------------------------------------------*
#   export meaning_of_life=$(eval 'grep -i truth mind_of_god | sort -u')  #
# Work: music@moravian.edu  <#!AMIGA!#>  Home: moravian.edu!vortex!lothar #
*-------------------------------------------------------------------------*
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
From: hudu@well.sf.ca.us (Scott Marley)
Subject: Re: haydn symphony recommendations
Organization: Whole Earth 'Lectronic Link
Date: Fri, 2 Oct 1992 05:28:04 GMT


Neil Midkiff asks if Haydn knew of Mozart's works.

Definitely yes.  The two men knew each other, and admired each other's works
enormously.  They influenced each other a lot.

Scott Marley
hudu@well.sf.ca.us
From: mgresham@dscatl.UUCP (Mark Gresham)
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
Subject: Re: Orchestras/conductors
Date: 4 Oct 92 00:30:37 GMT
Reply-To: mgresham@dscatl.UUCP (Mark Gresham)
Organization: Digital Systems Co,  Atlanta, Ga

In article <1992Oct1.042835.13776@nuscc.nus.sg> art30248@nusunix1.nus.sg (NG LING LING) writes:
>I wonder if any of you can help me. I'm doing a compilation of some of
>the big name orchestras and hope to do a list of who's conducting who
>(or who's the Musical Director).

A thought for the original poster:

See if you can obtain a few big musical directories
like the Musical America Directory, or see if you have access
to one in a library.  I see you are posting from
Singapore, and I know those kinds of things may be
absurdly difficult to find there.  If one is not
available in a major Singapore library, perhaps you can
convince the librarian to get a current one.

Cheers,

--Mark Gresham

dscatl!mgresham@gatech.edu

==========================
From: diarmuid@uniwa.uwa.edu.au (Diarmuid Pigott)
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
Subject: Re: A Brief Review
Date: 29 Sep 1992 12:29:30 +0800
Organization: The University of Westrn Australia
NNTP-Posting-Host: uniwa.uwa.edu.au
X-Newsreader: Tin 1.1 PL5

haus der luge (al@sys6626.bison.mb.ca) wrote:
:  
: I borrowed a copy of RCA Victor's recording of Kazuhito Yamashita's 
: performance of Stravinsky's Firebird Suite on solo guitar (!?!).
:  
: This is an utter piece of garbage.  That he takes credit for arranging 
: this transcription should shame him forever.  Yamashita's attempts to 
: approximate an entire orchestra by simply playing his instrument as loud 
: and obnoxiously as possible must be some sort of inside joke. 

Why does Mr der Luge praise the experiments of Cage, and show such
disrespect to this experiment?  Are there rules to the language game after
all?  Or is it (Shock! Horror!) a matter of taste? 

(Answers on one side of paper only, and use of the words "genius" or 
"paradigm", or their near synonyms will result in instant failure.)
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
From: chrisi@lloyd.Camex.COM (Chris Ischay)
Subject: Re: London Philharmonic Orchestra
Organization: Camex Inc., Boston MA
Date: Thu, 01 Oct 1992 14:07:24 EDT

In article <1992Oct1.160010.18986@fid.morgan.com> steve@fid.morgan.com (Steve Apter) writes:
>In article <+5-p#ck@lynx.unm.edu> lundgren@vesta.unm.edu (Chad Lundgren) writes:
>>As an interesting side note, I extrapolate that in the future, Europe will
>>have a stranglehold on all the top notch and innovative orchestras because 
>>the U.S. government does not help the symphonies nearly as much as European
>>governments seem to.
>
>Tax the many to subsidize the pleasures of the few.  Way to go, Chad!

I don't particularly like to debate issues like this, and I don't
mean to start up another thread (seems this one comes around from
time to time), but this seems to me a distortion.

Is the only benefit of subsidy of the arts "the pleasures of the few?"
I don't think so.

Chris Ischay
chrisi@camex.com
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
From: jwa@vipunen.hut.fi (Jyrki J Wahlstedt)
Subject: Re: modern liturgical music
Organization: Helsinki University of Technology, Finland
Date: 27 Sep 92 01:11:06

  If I haven't missed too many articles on this thread, nobody has
  mentioned Penderecki. I am not quite certain, whether some of his
  works can be seen as liturgical, but he has several sacred works,
  however. Some of them are St. Luke Passion, Dies irae and Utrenia.
--
!
!	Jyrki Wahlstedt
!		Jyrki.Wahlstedt@hut.fi
!
!  Our life is no dream, but it should and will perhaps become one.
!