From: hudson@athena.cs.uga.edu (Paul Hudson Jr)
Newsgroups: talk.religion.misc
Subject: Re: Homosexuality and Christianity
Date: 16 Apr 92 21:12:46 GMT
Distribution: na
Organization: University of Georgia, Athens

In article <adams.703452580@spssig> adams@spss.com (Steve Adams) writes:
>hudson@athena.cs.uga.edu (Paul Hudson Jr) writes:
>>In article <adams.703368767@spssig> adams@spss.com (Steve Adams) writes:

>>In the passage of Romans, God delivers those who become homosexuals up
>>to uncleaness.
>To a Gentile, the concept of 'uncleaness' doesn't exist...

I don't know what Greek word is used here.  I think it is obvious that
what is translated as "unclean" in the KJV is not exactly the same thing 
as kosher.  

>>These unnatural lusts come about as a result of disobedience.
>The sin then is disobedience...

Isn't all sin disobedience?

>>God did create Adam as a murderer, so murder is not a "natural" act for
>>a man to commit.
>I take it you mean 'did not.'

Yes.  I meant to put "did not."  Thanks for catching that.

God created everything, and as such, is the
>creator of all things, good and evil.  Murder could not exist without God's
>permission.  He created man *capable* of murder.

However, in Adam's original state he was not created a murderer.  Murder
came in after he was corrupted by sin.  

>>John said that the one who hates his brother is a murderer.  Little children
>>can hate.  Do we say that hate is natural an not sinful because it appears
>>early on in life?  Of course not.  Hate occurs because sin entered the world.  It is another of sin's corrupting
>Hah.  Hate is learned.  Homosexuality is not.  It is innate and inherant.
>You no more chose to be heterosexual (nor did I) than anyone choses to be
>homosexual.  It is not learned.  Hate *is* learned.

"Hah"?  
You could go smack a little toddler in the face and see if hate is learned.
I can remember hating when I was 4.  I certainly did not know much of anything
about sexual attraction at that age.   Why do you say that hate is learned?
Did you have to say, "Mommy, what is hate" and get an answer before you
could hate when you were a child?

>I disagree with God being in the business of changing people and their
>natures.  We change in response to God and the Spirit, but God no more
>'changes' me than I can change Mt. McKinley.

In both New and Old Testaments, we can see the metaphor that God is the
potter and we are the clay.  God changes us as we yeild to the pressure
he puts on us.  
Another Biblical analogy is that we are living stones.
Stones can be put into place after the are chisled.  

He may provide me with grace
>to understand why I am wrong, but I only change when I stop saying 'No' to
>God.  

We are to yeild to His hand, but without His pressing, we could not change.

>As for homosexuals, you must compare them with heterosexuals.  What is
>natural for heterosexuals is unnatural for homosexuals and vice-versa.
>They are both innate traints, well inside our physiologcal and mental selves
>that we can no more change than we can move the sun from it's path.

Doctors, (medical and phd) are still arguing over this.  
Heterosexual desire can be evil too.  But we are not to yeild to evil
desires.  We are to mortify the deads of the body, so that we can live.

>Why would a loving, omnipotent God create a being who could not gain
>salvation?

Is this a predestination question?  If it is dealing with homosexuality,
God can change the heart of an obedient man.  (He even hardened the 
heart of the disobedient Pharoah.)  The weakness of the flesh is no
reason to be disobedient.  Jesus was human and He did not sin.
Link Hudson.
Newsgroups: talk.religion.misc