HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: barry@godzilla.quotron.com (Barry Geipel)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Olympic Shooting Results 7/31/92
Date: 31 Jul 92 15:57:58 GMT
Organization: Quotron Systems, Inc.


Olympic results according to the Los Angeles Times:

Mens Rapid Fire Pistol:

	Gold:	Ralf Shumann (Germany)		885.0
	Silver:	Afanasijs Kuzmins (Latvia)	882.0
	Bronze:	Vladimir Vokhmianine (CIS)	882.0

	USA:5th	John McNally			781

	NOTE: Breakdown of scores was not given.

Womens 3-Position Smallbore Rifle:

	Gold:	Launi Meili (USA)			684.3 - 587 + 93.7
	Silver:	Nonka Detcheva Matova (Bulgaria)	682.7 -
	Bronze:	Malgorzata Ksiazkiewicz (Poland)	681.5 -

	Launi Meili's scores set a new new olympic record.

	NOTE: Breakdown of scores was not given.


Mens Free Pistol:

	Gold:	Konstantine Louachik (CIS)	658.0 -	567 + 91
	Silver:	Wang Yifu (China)		657.0 - 565 + 92
	Bronze:	Ragnar Skanaker (Sweden)	657.0 - 566 + 91

	USA: 4th Darius Young			655.0 - 566 + 89 


Mens 50-Meter Free Rifle:

	Gold:	Lee Eun Chui (S. Korea)		702.5 - 597 + 105.5
	Silver:	Harald Stenvaag (Norway)	701.4 -
	Bronze:	Stevan Pletikosic (Yugoslavia)	701.1 -

	NOTE: Breakdown of scores was not given.

	USA:18th Michael Anti				594


Womens Air Rifle:

	Gold:	Yeo Kab Soon (S. Korea)			498.2 - 
	Silver:	Vesela Nikolaeva Letcheva (Bulgaria)	495.3 -
	Bronze: Aranka Binder (Yugoslavia)		495.1 -

	NOTE: Breakdown of scores was not given.

	USA:11th Launi Meili & Debbie Sinclair			391


Mens Air Rifle:

	Gold:	Yuri Fedkin (CIS) 		695.3 - 593 + 102.3
	Silver:	Franck Badiou (France) 		691.9 - 591 + 100.9
	Bronze: Johann Riederer (Germany)	691.7 - 590 + 101.7

	USA:7th	Robert Foth			689.4 - 590 +  99.4


Mens Air Pistol:

	Gold:	Wang Yifu (China)		684.8 - 585 +  99.8
	Silver: Serguei Pyjianov (CIS)		684.1 - 584 + 100.1
	Bronze: Sorin Babii (Romania)		684.1 - 586 +  98.1

	USA:14th Ben Amonette				577


Skeet:

	Gold:	Zhang Shan (China)		223   - 200 +  23
	Silver: Juan Jorge Giha Yanur (Peru)	222   - 198 +  24
	Bronze:	Bruno Mario Rossetti (Italy)	222   - 198 +  24

	USA:6th	Matt Dryke			221   - 198 +  23

	NOTE: This event was open to both men and women. Gold medalist
	Zhang Shan is a woman and the first person ever to shoot a perfect
	200 in olympic competion. This is the last time that women will be
	allowed to compete in skeet (in '96 sheet will be an all mens
	competition). The tie between Juan Jorge Giha Yanur of Peru and
	Bruno Mario Rossetti of Italy was decided in a shoot-off.

Womens Free Pistol

	Gold:	Marina Logvinenko (CIS)			684.0
	Silver: Li Duihong (China)			680.0
	Bronze: Dorzhsureb Munkhbayar (Mongolia)	679.0

	NOTE: Breakdown of scores was not given.

	USA:24th Roxane Thompson 		572
-- 
==========================================================
Barry L. Geipel            || 
INTERNET:barry@quotron.com || Lacking a muse, my mauser
COMPUSERVE:710055,3726     ||  must be my  thunderbolt
From: smpod@mars.lerc.nasa.gov (Stefan)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: A few reloading questions
Date: 22 Jul 92 20:33:37 GMT
Organization: who knows


 donb@igor.tamri.com (Don Baldwin) writes...
#3. A small safety manual came with my 1953 Enfield and it said that
#   only military surplus ammo should be used with it.  Is it at all
#   possible to reload .303 British for the Enfield or is surplus the
#   ONLY way to go?

You can reload for the Lee-Enfield but you can't find any match bullets or FMJ
unless you pull the military surplus which usually is very cheap (for the 
corrosive stuff).
From: webdw@mvutd.att.com (Bruce D Woods)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Davis Derringer (Reply failed, had to Post)
Date: 29 Jul 92 15:00:48 GMT
Organization: AT&T


 Date: Wed, 29 Jul 92 09:56:24 EDT
 From: webdw@mvutd.att.com (Bruce D Woods)
 To: smrtstr!"DONALD!PAUL"@uu.psi.com
 Subject: Re: Davis Derringers
 
 In article <9207281541.AA02447@smrtstr.smartstar.com> you write:
 #Has anybody ever shot one of those Davis Derringers?  They are small 2 shot
 #derringers that come in .22LR, .22Mag, .25acp and .32acp.  I was considering
 
 
 I have a Davis .22 Derringer (I won it at a shoot, I didn't
 buy it).  It has a rough, heavy trigger pull.  The top barrel
 shoots about 5" high and 2" right @ 25 ft.  The bottom barrel
 also shoots high about 1" left @ 25 ft.  Obviously, it is strictly
 a belly gun, but, with such a trigger pull and it being so small
 you can't use two hands it's not a good choice for a real self
 defense weapon.  I couldn't recommend it, but if you really
 want one, I'll sell mine for $40.  New ones should run about $60.
 
 For a real compact defense gun I'd look at either a compact .380
 auto (name brands only) or a S&W or Ruger 3" barrel .38 special
 revolver.  The small S&W is hard to beat for reliability; I'd opt
 for the models with the external hammer although the shrouded
 hammer models are less likely to tear a pocket.
 
 BDW
 

[MODERATOR:  What about a SIG P230 ...?]
From: schow@sol.UVic.CA (Stirling Chow)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: ammo calibers ?!
Date: 21 Jul 92 16:44:51 GMT
Organization: University of Victoria, Victoria, B.C. CANADA

In article <1992Jul21.045503.26614@latcs1.lat.oz.au> jd@latcs1.lat.oz.au (John Dimogotsis) writes:
#
#	Hi there, I know very little about guns and there is one aspect
#		of postings to this newsgroup I do not understand,
#	ammunition is classified either in terms of milimeters 
#	(i.e. 9mm, 7.62mm, 5.56mm etc) or as fractions of inches
#	(i.e. .22 .38 .44 .357magnum etc), are these just two different
#	conventions discribing the same ammo (I have grown up with the
#	metric system, so feet and inches are a bit foreign to me)
#	or is there a significant difference between ammo when different
#	conventions are used? For example 7.62mm translates to .30inch
#	is there a difference when different conventions are used or
#	does this reflect the preference of the writer of the posting?
#			Thanks in advance to anyone who will reply.
#								John.
#
Okay, i'm a bit of a neophyte aswell, but I was at the library a few days ago
and did a bit of reading about calibers.  First off, there is a 
correlation between a millimeter reading and a inch reading.  For instance,
the 5.56mm round is the same as a .223 round and the 7.62mm round is the same
as the .308 round.  I believe, and this is purely speculation, that the usage
of millimeters is because of NATO wanting to standardize measurement units.
As you have listed, all the millimeter measurements (save the 7.62mm) are NATO
standards.  
#

You also mention that 7.62mm translates to .30.  This is true to a certain 
extent.  Shells such as the 30.06, 308, and 303 are all classified as .30
caliber rounds.  However, the added thousandths are to designate the depth of
the rifling.  For instance, the .308 will fire a .30 caliber bullet, but that
does not mean that the bullet has a .30inch diameter.  In fact, the the total
bullet's diameter is .308inches.  The bullet has to be wider than the bore of
the rifle it is to be fired from in order that the rifling can score it and
turn the bullet.  Therefore, the depth of rifling on a .308 is .004inches.

I hope this helps, and please excuse any mistakes that I have made.  I was also
wondering if someone could explain the measurements of the 30.06 Springfield.

Cheers,
   Stirling
From: gwyn@smoke.brl.mil (Doug Gwyn)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: Magic Gun Theory
Date: 23 Jul 92 18:36:47 GMT
Organization: U.S. Army Ballistic Research Laboratory, APG, MD.


In article <1992Jul19.135652.10556@ncsu.edu> hes@unity.ncsu.edu (Henry E. Schaffer) writes:
#"magic gun" discussion.

More succinctly, a firearm is the *last* resort in defense, not the *first*.
From: cramer@optilink.com (Clayton Cramer)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: Rockchucker primer
Date: 23 Jul 92 14:29:29 GMT
Organization: Optilink Corporation, Petaluma, CA


In article <1992Jul21.144845.9470@edsr.eds.com>, edsr!kjs@uunet.UU.NET (Kevin Sedota) writes:
# When I got into reloading I bought on of those RCBS master reloading kits.
# But on the advice of a friend I got a Lee hand primer. His concern was mainly
# that the system on the RCBS was prone to ignighting the entire tube of primers
# thus (PC ALERT !!!! ;-) ) causing serious negative impact on current reloading 
# process. (read: it could really screw up your whole day.)

Hmmm.  Well, that explains why the RCBS factory in Oroville, CA, is
located at the junction of two roads, one of which is named "Liability
Lane."
-- 
Clayton E. Cramer {uunet,pyramid}!optilink!cramer  My opinions, all mine!
"Well, maybe the Holocaust was right *for that culture*." -- a moral relativist
with whom I work.
From: davy.thomas@Corp.Sun.COM (Davy Thomas - N.A. Solution Center)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: Sig P220 vs. Glock 21
Date: 23 Jul 92 23:51:36 GMT
Organization: Sun Microsystems, Inc.

#I like Glocks, but you have to recognize that they can be a pain, since
#once a round is chambered you have to either shoot it or else pull the
#magazine and rack the slide to "safe" the weapon against a simple
#trigger pull.

Isn't the method the same for the SIGs (since they have no active
saftey, either)?

---
Davy
From: jheath@fieldofdreams.npirs.purdue.edu (Jim Heath)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: Ricochets
Date: 23 Jul 92 21:02:51 GMT
Organization: Center for Environmental and Regulatory Information Systems, Purdue University

#From article <1992Jul22.235146.3324@athena.mit.edu>, by sybok@athena.mit.edu (The Rifleman):
# #    BTW, since I posted the article about the BB hit in the nasal opening, I
# # neglected to say that the BB is still there. The doctor that I went to see
# # also thought that surgery was also not needed. I don't have any "trouble"
# # with it, but a few years ago I went to England and it set off the metal
# # detector in BOTH airports. Try and explain THAT to their security! I must
# # admit that the security in England were MUCH more relaxed than here. Here,
# # weapons were drawn and I was carted away. Not too cool.
# 
# When Reagan visited my high school, David H. Hickman in Columbia, MO, in
# 1986, I walked through the detector with a full ring of keys, and it
# didn't go off.  I guess the detectors used in airports are set to lower
# threshold?  (I've never been on a plane.)

When Reagan visited Purdue, I had a couple of pocketknives in my
pockets and the detector they were using that day thought I was
its daddy.  The guy using it let me through though.  I guess he
thought the Secret Service could gun me down before I could get
close enough to harm the president ;-{). (Oh, it found my keys
and pocket change as well.)
-- 
"Land of song, said the warrior bard,           Jim Heath
Though all the world betrays thee.
One sword, at least, thy rights shall guard, (The Minstrel Boy)
One faithful harp will praise thee."         (Thomas Moore)
From: pdavis@itx.isc.com (Phil Davis)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Neophite needs help!
Date: 24 Jul 92 16:50:19 GMT
Organization: Interactive Systems Corporation, Boulder, CO


Hello Everyone,

I am considering my first purchase in a rifle and decided to check with the
net.wisdom.  I have not been around guns and riffles much as I was growing up,
so I don't know much, the only exposure I have had is my M16 and 45 when I
was in the army (several years ago).  Nor have I ever gone hunting before.

I am interested in a rifle for hunting.  I would like it to be good for
both short and long ranges (ie if I can see it I can kill it).  I am also
looking for something that I can knock down large game like elk and mule
dear, as well as protect myself from things like bears.

So you see, I expect a lot from a rifle :-)  If guns are like everything else
in life, I know that no ONE gun will do everything that I desire, well.  So,
I am looking for a fairly good general purpose weapon.  From the research
that I have done, it seems that a 270 is the answer.  It has large
volocity and energy ratings, with a low loss ratio at 500 yards.  It is
small enough that it seems that I could still use it for the smaller game,
but with enough energy to knock down the larger game.

The next issue is after deciding on a bullet size, what rifle to purchase.
I have looked at a few rifles in the past few weeks, there seem to be 3
types: bolt action, semi automatic, and pump action.  I have ruled out the
pump action, as it does not seem comfortable.  Are the semi automatic
rifles accurate and reliable, or is the bolt action the way to go?  Then
with both of these types, several have external clips, should I get the
external clips or not?

Then, after I decide what bullet to use, the action of the rifle, we come
to the last step:  What make and model?  There are umpteen bazillion
different rifles out there.  Who makes reliable rifles?  Are they easy to
maintain? Are parts available?

Whew, I guess, in a nutshell.... If you were buying one rifle (for now),
want it to be a good all-purpose rifle, reliable and accurate, what would
you buy?

					Phil Davis

These are my opinions, would you want to claim them?
From: tjohnson@xenon.stanford.edu (Ted C. Johnson)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: coating on SIG magazines?
Date: 27 Jul 92 21:37:47 GMT
Organization: Computer Science Department, Stanford University.


Every time I get a new 20 round P226 SIG magazine, it always comes with 
some sort of reddish brown coating on it, that has to be scrubbed off.  
Is this coating gun oil gone bad, or is it some special protective "stuff"?

Thanks.

-Ted
From: dstine@cisco.com (David S.A. Stine)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Possible problem with my Glock 19
Date: 21 Jul 92 12:26:50 GMT
Organization: BitBashers, Ltd.

Folks,

Wonder if anyone else has seen the following problem:

Glock 19, about 3 years old, about 3000+ rounds through it. Took it down to
the range a couple weeks ago and noticed after about 30 rounds that it was
stovepiping about 1/3 of the brass being ejected. The rest of the brass had
abrasion/burnishing marks on the brass. The marks are usually about 3mm long,
about 2mm wide. Brass seemed to be ejecting normally. I didn't have any jams
or misfeeds.

It was completely clean before firing. The ammo was 115 FMJ Fiocchi (sp?). I
had also fired some 123 FMJ +P rounds of the same mfr. The 115 FMJ Fiocchi is
my ammo of choice, since it burns more cleanly than most others. Add to that
the fact that it is cheap ($169/1000 locally in Bay area).

I've never had a lick of trouble before. Am pretty complete in my cleaning
treatment. Any ideas? e-mail and I'll summarize.

(and please: no Sig vs. Glock jibes ;-)

thanks,
dsa
From: n9020351@henson.cc.wwu.edu (James Douglas Del-Vecchio)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: British gun laws circa 1960
Date: 24 Jul 92 14:34:03 GMT
Organization: Western Washington University

Webley.  I wrote "Welby" five times.  I have no idea why.
I meant to spell Webley, anyway.
Jim D

[MODERATOR:  So we take it that you are a fan of the old 
TV series featuring Marcus ... ? ]
From: forda@gtephx.UUCP (Andrew Ford @ AGCS, Phoenix, Arizona)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: Ricochets
Date: 23 Jul 92 14:30:16 GMT
Organization: gte

In article <76183@ut-emx.uucp>, dans@ccwf.cc.utexas.edu (Daniel L. Schneider) writes:
# 
# When I was 12 years old, I got into a BB gun fight with my best friend.
# (yeah, I know it was stupid, but I thought it would be funny to shoot
# him in the butt.)
# 
# I was seriously outgunned, as I had a little one pump Daisy and my friend
# had a multi-pump Crosman.  He returned fire, hitting me in the thigh.
# It hurt a heck of a lot, and I screamed for a few minutes, but I saw
# no hole in my jeans, and assumed that it hadn't penetrated.  My thigh
# hurt for the rest of the day, so when I got home, I removed my jeans
# and discovered a hole in my thigh.  The BB had penetrated my jeans and at 
# least an inch of meat.  Anyway, it was deep enough that I couldn't get
# it out myself, and had to tell my mom.  The doctor decided that the
# surgery required to get it out wasn't worth it, so I still have a BB
# in my leg today, 12 years later.
# 
# The point of this story is to show that the BB guns carried by many
# of our children have the potential to cause serious damage.  I escaped
# serious injury only because the BB hit me in a "safe" place.  That kind
# of penetration could have been lethal in other parts of my body, as shown

That kind of penetration could have been fatal in your leg -- had it broken
a major artery you could have bled to death before getting to a hospital.

# in the tragic story related in an earlier post.
# 
# So don't assume that your children aren't capable of being idiots.

Also, don't assume that there are any "safe" places to shoot someone.
Don't shoot anyone unless you have to, and then shoot for the triangle
formed by the nipples and the top of the sternum (base of the throat) --
aka "center of mass".

# Take appropriate precautions.

Plus some.

# 
# Dan
# dans@ccwf.cc.utexas.edu
# 


-- 
"25 States allow anyone to buy a gun, strap it on, and walk down the street with
no permit of any kind: some say it's crazy.  However, 4 out of 5 US murders are 
committed in the other half of the country: so who is crazy?"   -  Andrew Ford
gtephx!forda@enuucp.eas.asu.edu  OR  !uunet!samsung!romed!enuucp!gtephx!forda
From: reb@amc.com (Bob Brunjes)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: Combat Experience w/.45 ACP
Date: 29 Jul 92 11:52:10 GMT
Organization: Applied Microsystems, Redmond, WA

In article <9207241722.AA04466@hpfcmgw.fc.hp.com> bartb@hpfcmgw.fc.hp.com (Bart Bobbitt) writes:
#Oft times, comments on this net are about GYSGT Carlos Hathcock's sniping
#adventures in Vietnam.  Here's one that very few know about, but is probably
#just as good as far as accuracy during combat is concerned.
#
#A Navy SEAL Team was returning from a mission over North Vietnam in a chopper
#when it got hit pretty bad.  The pilot and one crew member were killed and
#the copilot was wounded.  Going into autorotation, the copilot managed to set
#the chopper down in a clearing.  After landing, a few rounds of enemy fire
#were starting to come in.  Seems the M60s were also damaged beyond use by
#the crash landing and initial RPG hit, the only M16 fell out on the way down.
#The only firearms left was M1911s.  
#
#The remaining crew member was carrying a match conditioned M1911 and had a
#few boxes of ammo.  As more enemy small arms fire started comming in, the
#copilot and crew member also noted that the VC were comming out of the jungle
#and approaching them; shooting as they came.  The crew member took out his .45
#and took careful aim as he shot at each attacking VC.  About 30 minutes later
#it was all over.  Between reloading magazines and radioing for rescue, the
#copilot was pretty busy, but a rescue chopper finally arrived on the scene.
#
#As the rescue chopper came in and landed, its crew noticed a lot of dead VC
#laying around.  The downed helo's remaining crew were picked up and on their
#way out, they counted the dead VC; 37 in all.  Their distances from the downed
#helo were from 3 to about 150 yards; all shot by the crew member with his
#M1911 .45 ACP.  About 80 rounds were fired by Petty Officer R.J. Thomas, a
#member of the USN Rifle and Pistol Team.
#
#Petty Officer Thomas was recommended for the Congressional Medal of Honor, but
#by the time the recommendation got all the way up through the chain of
#command, the recognition was reduced to the Navy Cross.
#
#This incident has been cited this as the only known of example of top-level
#combat marksmanship since SGT Alvin York's escapades in WWI.

Now, who's the general who claims that a 1911 is worthless at ranges larger
than a telephone booth?  Evidently the general who hasn't learned to shoot
the weapons issued to him.

I realize that this was a "match-conditioned" piece, but the worst "jingler"
1911 I've ever shot would place all rounds reliably in a man's chest at 100
yards.  I suppose you'd have _some_ chance of survival at 150 yards, but I
wouldn't like the odds.


Bob Brunjes		Applied Microsystems Corp
			Redmond, WA
			reb@amc.com
From: cramer@optilink.com (Clayton Cramer)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: British gun laws circa 1960
Date: 23 Jul 92 14:29:26 GMT
Organization: Optilink Corporation, Petaluma, CA


In article <PRICHARD.92Jul21214843@devon.larc.nasa.gov>, prichard@devon.larc.nasa.gov writes:
# I have a book by an English dude who sailed around the world sometime
# around 1960.  at one point, he mentions checking his Webley .45 since
# the upcoming port had a bad reputation.  
# 
# 1) would this handgun (presumably a revolver) been legal to posess in
#    the British isles, and

There ARE British handgun owners -- the permits are simply ferociously
difficult to get these days.  There was a time, earlier in the century,
when they weren't hopeless.  In any case, there was a provision in the
1920 Pistols Act that allowed those who were going abroad for more than
six months to have a pistol.  ("Must have something to keep those
colonials in line, mustn't we?")

# 2) might this an American cartridge such as .45 Colt or .45 ACP?  .45
#    seems a bit big for an old British revolver.
# 
#  | Devon Prichard                       "Tyrants seldom want pretexts." |
#  | Assistant Towel-Folder                Edmund Burke, 1791.            |

British revolvers were commonly chambered in .455 Webley, and a few
were made at one time in .45 Colt.  Not at all surprising.
-- 
Clayton E. Cramer {uunet,pyramid}!optilink!cramer  My opinions, all mine!
"Well, maybe the Holocaust was right *for that culture*." -- a moral relativist
with whom I work.
From: n9020351@henson.cc.wwu.edu (James Douglas Del-Vecchio)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: $5000 Shopping Spree
Date: 21 Jul 92 17:51:03 GMT
Organization: Western Washington University

C08926RC@WUVMD.Wustl.Edu (Rob) writes:

#Guns magazine is currently running a contest in which the grand prize
#is a $5000 firearms shopping spree.  I thought this would be an interesting
#subject here.

#If you had $5000 to spend on firearms and/or accessories, what would
#you buy?

Glock 20	21	23	19
Ruger GP100 4"	Super Redhawk 7.5"	Mark II 4.75"
Star Firestar nickel .40
Astra A-100 nickel .45
S&W 629 4"
Taurus 85CH	94 3"
Colt Gold Cup Commander stainless .45
Charter Arms .44 Bulldog stainless, no shroud.
SKS		Colt .223 sporter	


At this point I'm sure I would be sick of guns entirely, give them
all to the salvation army, etc.		;-)

	Jim Del Vecchio.
From: TTC103@psuvm.psu.edu
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: Poll
Date: 25 Jul 92 00:29:32 GMT
Organization: Penn State University

handgun: FN P-90
rifle  : HK G-11

If only one gun:  One of those 16 inchers off USS Iowa

	[MODERATOR:  Doesn't it have to be over 18inches for ATF to
	 consider it a real rifle ... ?  Errr ... could be interesting
	 trying to convince a jury of the difference... :-) ]