HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: dblakele@acpub.duke.edu (Dean Blakeley MD)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: Strait folks ain't got no shame
Date: 3 Sep 92 02:31:11 GMT
Organization: Duke University; Durham, N.C.

In article <Sep.1.16.22.53.1992.4717@andromeda.rutgers.edu> <lcrew@andromeda.rutgers.edu> writes:
>
>A UPI item from August 7th that demonstrates clearly the double standards 
>most heterosexuals employ:
>
>
>                  HETEROSEXUAL DOCTORS TWICE AS LIKELY TO
>
>                        HAVE SEX WITH THEIR PATIENTS*

Could somebody do me the distinct favor of a specific pointer in regards to
this particular item.  I imagine that it probably was a UPI posting of an
article that appeared in the medical press.  (Kind of like reading the 
Thursday paper and watching CNN that morning to find out what is going
to be said before I have a chance to actually read JAMA or the NEJM)

Thanks.

Peace (from one who's been combing MEDLINE on this subject today and 
       planning a suitable rebuttal while never letting a challenge
       go unanswered)



-- 
| Dean D Blakeley, MD            | Internet:dblakele@acpub.duke.edu           |
| Ambulatory Care Service (11C)  | BITNET:blake007@dukemc.mc.duke.edu         |
| Durham VA Medical Center       | FORUM:blakeley,dean d@durham.va.gov        |
| Durham NC 27705                | NeXTMail accepted  #include <disclaim.h>   |
From: harris@currituck.cs.unc.edu (Trey Harris)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: What is virginity?
Date: 1 Sep 92 02:57:38 GMT
Organization: The University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill

In article <1992Aug31.220654.17780@quantime.co.uk>
roger@quantime.co.uk (Roger Phillips) writes:

>Recently, I've heard more than one (ok, two, if you must know)
>gay (ok, I'm assuming they're not bisexual) man
>describe himself as a virgin.
>Too polite to ask directly,
>I find myself at a loss to know what they mean.

I'm assuming I'm one, and THANK YOU for noticing! :-)

>Might a gay man who calls himself a virgin mean
>that he's not had sex with a man?

I have met one man who used this as his definition, he had DEFINITELY
had sex with women.  That isn't my definition, for it implies that you
may lose your virginity twice: once with a motos, and once with a
motss.  This just doesn't sound right to me, but maybe that's because
I'm too high on the Kinsey scale...

>My personal problem with this is that
>I find it difficult to tell where simple touching stops and sex begins.
>Where does kissing fall?

I haven't kissed yet, either... (*sigh* came close tonight, though...
does putting my fingers to my lips and pressing them against Akira's
count?  Didn't think so...) so I don't think I'm in a position to
comment, but I would guess that you can kiss and still be a virgin.  I
mean, that's generally the assumption for heterosexuals, doesn't it?

>I *assume* that gay male virgins are talking about anal fucking
>[I originally wrote "penetration" but that felt
>too, oh, retentive, if you know what I mean],
>but do they mean (using "fuck" to mean being a "top")
>not-having-fucked, or not-having-been-fucked?
>If one has been on only one end of the stick,
>is one still half a virgin?

I don't know that it matters.  I would consider myself no longer
virginal the first time I "had sex" in whatever fashion.  What is
"having sex," the question may be asked?  I dunno, but I think I
wouldn't be a virgin after having participated on either side of oral
sex or mutual masturbation as well...

>Is the unqualified term "virgin" useful?
>It means not-having-done-*something*,
>but I don't think it's clear, for non-heterosexuals especially,
>what the something is.
>Are there concepts of virginity for lesbians or bisexuals?

Sure, I talked to a lesbian virgin only yesterday.  She hadn't had
sex, so... I think you're too hung up on penetration.  Maybe it's
required legally (or maybe even by some religous codes), but I don't
think I need to necessarily penetrate or be penetrated...

I also spoke tonight to a bisexual woman who DID feel she had only
"halfway" lost her virginity, that is, she had had sex with motss, but
not with motos.  As I strongly doubt I'll ever sleep with a woman, I
would consider my virginity gone and done with the first time I sleep
with a man. ("Sleep" being in a euphemistic way, of course... ;-)

I don't know, I suppose others would be more qualified to present the
legal or religious definitions of virginity, but this is how I
approach it...

Trey Harris
--Stranger in a Strange Thread!
From: dyer@spdcc.com (Steve Dyer)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Al Parker
Date: 28 Aug 92 21:42:09 GMT
Article-I.D.: spdcc.1992Aug28.214209.21708
Organization: S.P. Dyer Computer Consulting, Cambridge MA

In article <l9t5b1INNhnu@mizar.usc.edu> adolphso@mizar.usc.edu (adolphson) writes:
>I asked him what was wrong,
>and he pulled out a copy of Update (a gay paper), flipped to the
>obituaries, and pointed out the obit for Al Parker.

Huh?  When did THIS happen?


-- 
Steve Dyer
dyer@ursa-major.spdcc.com aka {ima,harvard,rayssd,linus,m2c}!spdcc!dyer
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: dyer@spdcc.com (Steve Dyer)
Subject: Re: Vacation
Organization: S.P. Dyer Computer Consulting, Cambridge MA
Date: Thu, 3 Sep 1992 22:44:43 GMT

In article <65211@cup.portal.com> Furr@cup.portal.com (George Dalton Madison) writes:
>I myself prefer either sweet pickle relish,
>potato chips or tortilla chips.  Yes, *IN* the [PB] sandwich.

You're playing with my mind, George.  Stop joking...

-- 
Steve Dyer
dyer@ursa-major.spdcc.com aka {ima,harvard,rayssd,linus,m2c}!spdcc!dyer
From: jfh@netcom.com (Jack Hamilton)
Subject: Re: Folsom ST Fair
Date: Wed, 02 Sep 92 04:42:40 GMT
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services (408 241-9760 guest)

In article <65097@cup.portal.com> Furr@cup.portal.com (George Dalton Madison) writes:
>Stephen Arrants writes:
>>Well, what other place has PBJ sandwiches *AND* can seat 40+?
>
>And it only goes to show just how very, **VERY** little Mr. Dyer
>knows that this is based in another one of his fuckups. I no more
>eat "peanut butter and jelly sammiches" than I do Szechuan food
>or old tractor tires.

No doubt you do things with your old tractor tires that I couldn't even 
think of, and wouldn't want to. 

-- 

-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Jack Hamilton   jfh@netcom.com   P. O. Box 281107   SF, CA   94128-1107
From: dyer@spdcc.com (Steve Dyer)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: Folsom ST Fair
Date: 1 Sep 92 17:08:35 GMT
Article-I.D.: spdcc.1992Sep1.170835.9873
Organization: S.P. Dyer Computer Consulting, Cambridge MA

In article <jtjnzkg.stephena@netcom.com> stephena@netcom.com (Stephen Arrants) writes:
>Ugh. I'm with George on that opinion. Sorry, but that jellyfish stuff spooked
>me for a week.

You're talking to someone who thought he was eating Chinese fettucine
at the '88 motss.con.  So, yes, I am a survivor of San Francisco dim sum.

>>I don't think there's a place which serves peanut butter and jelly sammiches
>>AND has room for 40+ leatherfolk. :-)
>I'll check the SF Board of Education and see what the schools have on the
>menu that week.

Great image.


-- 
Steve Dyer
dyer@ursa-major.spdcc.com aka {ima,harvard,rayssd,linus,m2c}!spdcc!dyer
From: markm@ogicse.ogi.edu (Mark Morrissey)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: Geography (was Re: Guess my age and win a valuable prize!)
Date: 26 Aug 92 15:07:27 GMT
Article-I.D.: ogicse.41957
Organization: Oregon Graduate Institute (formerly OGC), Beaverton, OR

In article <1992Aug26.082224.6318@quantime.co.uk> roger@quantime.co.uk (Roger Phillips) writes:
>In article <41919@ogicse.ogi.edu>,
>markm@ogicse.ogi.edu (Mark Morrissey) writes:
>> I was just looking through my copy of the
>> "Purity of the Pacific Northwest Oath and Way of Life" handbook
>> ... I noticed that under the second signature line for affirmation of Pacific
>> Northwest Cultural Purity (just above where you get it notorized),
>
>Help!  I didn't get notorized!
>And I was trying *so* hard when I was there.
>Can someone put in a bad word for me please?

Well, we can't just waive the rules for just anyone!  I suppose that this
means that you will have to come back out for more orientation.  I do
hope that someone gave you the test while you were here.  If not, we will
have to find you a private instructor.  Any takers?

Don't worry about the stamp, Roger.  The pdx-motss-cabal has one or two
worthy notories who would be *most* happy to press you should you decide
to take on our stamp.

--mark
--
Mark Morrissey           One Hatred to rule them all.  One Hatred to find them.
markm@cse.ogi.edu        One Hatred to bring them all and in the darkness bind
                         them.  In the land of Bigotry where the Shadows lie.

Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: anderson@macc.wisc.edu (Jess Anderson)
Subject: Re: Gravely Mixed Up
Organization: Madison Academic Computing Center, UW-Madison
Date: Mon, 31 Aug 92 20:37:43 GMT


In article <4997@news.duke.edu> John_Graves@cellbio.duke.edu
writes:

>In article <1992Aug29.031721.8152@macc.wisc.edu>
>anderson@macc.wisc.edu (Jess Anderson) writes:

>>In a long article I won't bother to cite, John Graves, who
>>is a Christian minister, says, of me:

>Sorry, but I don't know why you think of me as a Christian
>minister.

I've corrected that already.

>My position is that all beliefs could be considered to be
>religious based.

This amounts to redefining for others what they think.  It's
the height of hubris.  You are free to do for yourself what
you like, but it is *very* annoying that you are so
self-centered as to suppose that you can delegate unto
yourself the task of *redefining* the beliefs of others, and
then (this blows me away) you blithely imagine that they
should accept that interference.

>A" non-religious belief" is a restatement about the type of
>religious beliefs or perceived lack of them that you have
>described to me.

We have not discussed any of this that I recall.  What I've
said (on the net; I don't think I've said it to you) is that
my religious beliefs are no one's business but mine.  I'm
certain I've not discussed them with you in any detail, and
I'm positive I've not told anyone I had none.

>A "non-religious" religion could be described as

Sophistry, that's what!

>We are not in the business of redeeming souls, but in
>working towards making the world a nicer place to live for
>all.

Start by not interposing your cockeyed notions on others!
You will doubtless bleat that you're being misinterpreted.
Too bad.  I take it rather ill when someone like you comes
along, and with *endless* high-flown theoretical blather
about "a better world" starts telling others what these
others believe.  I protest only on my own behalf, though
I'd be very surprised if I were alone in this.

If you say, "I believe thus and so," then I'm free to
respond with "That's interesting," "I think so too," "I
doubt it," or "Baloney," as the case seems to me to warrant.
But kindly do not tell me what *I* think.  I'm quite capable
of determining that for myself.

And if someone comes along who says to you something like,
"But I'm not religious," refrain from what (I know) you will
want to think and say, "Oh, but you *are*!"

You boast of your fitness as a minister.  You suppose your
congregation has no question as to your fitness.  If I were
part of it, I would.

<> As I watched the seagulls, I thought, "That's the road to
<> take; find the absolute rhythm and follow it with absolute
<> trust." -- Nikos Kazantzakis
-- 
Jess Anderson <> Madison Academic Computing Center <> University of Wisconsin
Internet: anderson@macc.wisc.edu <-best, UUCP:{}!uwvax!macc.wisc.edu!anderson
NeXTmail w/attachments: anderson@yak.macc.wisc.edu  Bitnet: anderson@wiscmacc
Room 3130 <> 1210 West Dayton Street / Madison WI 53706 <> Phone 608/262-5888
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: anderson@macc.wisc.edu (Jess Anderson)
Subject: Re: Sim is OK!!
Organization: Madison Academic Computing Center, UW-Madison
Date: Fri, 28 Aug 92 22:15:58 GMT


In article <28AUG92.16130489@enh.nist.gov>
aberson@enh.nist.gov writes:

>In a previous article, anderson@macc.wisc.edu (Jess
>Anderson) wrote:

>>Good news about Sim & David.  I hope the rabbit's OK too.

>I forever fail to understand why people spell Daivd's name
>wrong.  Sheesh!

I'm very sorry, I failed to recognize the name Daivd as
other than a typo for the extremely common name David.
Indeed, I've encountered no other instance of the name in my
travels.  Is the ai a single vowel (maybe a diphthong) or is
there a syllable boundary between a and i?

Apologies to him as well, of course.

-- 
Jess Anderson <> Madison Academic Computing Center <> University of Wisconsin
Internet: anderson@macc.wisc.edu <-best, UUCP:{}!uwvax!macc.wisc.edu!anderson
NeXTmail w/attachments: anderson@yak.macc.wisc.edu  Bitnet: anderson@wiscmacc
Room 3130 <> 1210 West Dayton Street / Madison WI 53706 <> Phone 608/262-5888
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: anderson@macc.wisc.edu (Jess Anderson)
Subject: Vintage Bobbie
Organization: Madison Academic Computing Center, UW-Madison
Date: Fri, 28 Aug 92 12:09:22 GMT



In article <1992Aug28.041045.28703@microsoft.com>
bobsarv@microsoft.com (Bob Sarver) writes:

>Trying to pretend that something doesn't bother you while
>simultaneously attempting to beat it to death is pretty
>unconvincing.

You're mixed up.  Again or still.  Bobbie the person doesn't
bother me.  His ideas (or what passes for them) do.  I don't
care that much about him, but I'm very much against most of
what he represents in his postings here.  I can see it
annoys the dickens right out of him, but I *will* say so.

Beating to death and being unconvincing are more in your
line than mine.  By any objective measure.

<> If God didn't intend for there to be lesbians, she wouldn't
<> have designed in fingers and skin.
<> -- Melinda Shore (shore@theory.tc.cornell.edu)
-- 
Jess Anderson <> Madison Academic Computing Center <> University of Wisconsin
Internet: anderson@macc.wisc.edu <-best, UUCP:{}!uwvax!macc.wisc.edu!anderson
NeXTmail w/attachments: anderson@yak.macc.wisc.edu  Bitnet: anderson@wiscmacc
Room 3130 <> 1210 West Dayton Street / Madison WI 53706 <> Phone 608/262-5888
From: dyer@spdcc.com (Steve Dyer)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: Not necessarily Christian
Date: 31 Aug 92 23:50:43 GMT
Article-I.D.: spdcc.1992Aug31.235043.29562
Distribution: na
Organization: S.P. Dyer Computer Consulting, Cambridge MA

In article <5014@news.duke.edu> John_Graves@cellbio.duke.edu writes:
>I would hope you would understand that often a
>homosexual person, much like a woman or a black person has to be and show
>over-competence.

Wouldn't that require some self-restraint on your part?

-- 
Steve Dyer
dyer@ursa-major.spdcc.com aka {ima,harvard,rayssd,linus,m2c}!spdcc!dyer
Newsgroups: soc.motss,ba.motss
From: dyer@spdcc.com (Steve Dyer)
Subject: Bay Area lawyer needed
Organization: S.P. Dyer Computer Consulting, Cambridge MA
Distribution: ba
Date: Tue, 1 Sep 1992 13:28:50 GMT

Steve Dyer is posting this anonymously for me.  Please post
responses rather than replying to him, if you can.  If you're
more comfortable replying by e-mail, he has graciously
agreed to forward messages.  Thank you, Steve.

I need a recommendation for a good lawyer in the San Francisco
Bay Area (preferably South Bay) who can do a conscientious
job of defending someone who's charged with lewd conduct
in a gay context.  I need help ASAP and would appreciate
any and all pointers.

Thanks very much.

-- 
Steve Dyer
dyer@ursa-major.spdcc.com aka {ima,harvard,rayssd,linus,m2c}!spdcc!dyer
From: nelson@reed.edu (Nelson Minar)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Texas
Date: 1 Sep 92 07:26:45 GMT
Article-I.D.: reed.1992Sep1.072645.9298
Organization: Reed College, Portland, OR

>the meaning of humility?

There's a saying from somewhere, "It's hard to be humble when you are
from Texas."

My regionalism is strangely split. You got to hear my Pacific
Northwest rant a few days ago. As someone pointed out, I have no claim
to be a PNW seperatist. I only came here three years ago (but lord,
how I love it. You should have seen this sunset on the coast last
week. And the stars!)

I grew up in Houston, Texas. All told it's not a bad place to be from.
Texas has its share of problems - it's definitely good ol' boy
country, and the weather isn't very friendly, the coast is completely
fouled with oil spills, there are rattlesnakes, and the only
queer-friendly places to live are huge metropolises. (Well, there's
Austin).

But Texas has some nice things about it. Did you all take Texas
history in eighth grade, like we did? So much interesting stuff to
learn - the Alamo, "the yellow rose of Texas", the six flags, the
rivers, Texas independence, our role in the civil war.. It's got a
very colourful history.

I'd still rather live in Oregon. And so I do.
-- 
                __
nelson@reed.edu \/                         I can live forever in formaldehyde
From: anderson@macc.wisc.edu (Jess Anderson)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: Guess my age and win a valuable prize!
Date: 28 Aug 92 22:04:07 GMT
Organization: Madison Academic Computing Center, UW-Madison


In article <1992Aug28.122220.719@calmasd.prime.com>
jhb@calmasd.prime.com (Jim Bishop) writes:

>Apparently something in my conversation didn't agree with his
>impression of me and he blurted out; "How old are you?"  I told him I
>was 37 and he said; "Oh, I thought you were closer to my age (27) and
>just hadn't taken very good care of yourself."

Now there's *just* the ploy for me!  When people ask my age,
I'll say: "Oh, I'm 27 (pause for disbelief to register), but
I've done nothing but sex, drugs, and rock n' roll since I
was 5 and I *know* I look like death warmed over, so go
easy, OK?"

-- 
Jess Anderson <> Madison Academic Computing Center <> University of Wisconsin
Internet: anderson@macc.wisc.edu <-best, UUCP:{}!uwvax!macc.wisc.edu!anderson
NeXTmail w/attachments: anderson@yak.macc.wisc.edu  Bitnet: anderson@wiscmacc
Room 3130 <> 1210 West Dayton Street / Madison WI 53706 <> Phone 608/262-5888
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: carlson@ab24.larc.nasa.gov (Ann Carlson)
Subject: Re: Texas
Organization: NASA Langley Research Center, Hampton, VA  USA
Date: Fri, 4 Sep 1992 11:44:00 GMT

In article <1992Sep3.200147.9231@panix.com>, mara@panix.com (Mara Chibnik) writes:
|>  
|> I guess NYState devotes 4th grade social studies to local history.
|> At that time I lived in Massena, NY, way up on the Canadian border.
|> Guess what _we_ spent the whole year studying, as if nothing outside
|> of St. Lawrence County existed?
|> 
|> 

But Mara, that's true!  Life only pretends to exist outside St. Lawrence
County.  There's almost life in Franklin County, but it drops drastically
any further away than that.

Ann ( who lived in Lawrenceville, in the town of Lawrence, went to St.
Lawrence Central High School, in St. Larwrence County, in the St. Lawrence
River valley, ... you get the idea.)
-- 



*************************************************      
*Dr. Ann B. Carlson (carlson@ab24.larc.nasa.gov)*       O .
*MS 366                                         *         o  _///_ //
*NASA Langley Research Center                   *          <`)=  _<<
*Hampton, VA 23681-0001                         *             \\\  \\
*************************************************
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: vanyel@camelot.bradley.edu (Alan Williams)
Subject: Re: Too straight looking to be gay??? (was re: UNGAY GAY)
Organization: Bradley University
Distribution: usa
Date: 28 Aug 92 19:26:54 GMT

In <1992Aug28.184322.5652@PacBell.COM> rjwill6@PacBell.COM (Rod Williams) writes:
>> vanyel@camelot.bradley.edu (Alan Williams) writes:
>>                                         ...In fact, I can occasionally
>>lapse into a two-second "camp" phase with certain friends, but I generally
>>feel slightly queasy afterward...
>Oh, Mary -- get over it.

Is this what Bob Sarver means by groupthink?  I'm starting to think so....

--

 ________________ Alan Williams | vanyel@camelot.bradley.edu _________________
 \/ "Are you afraid I'm jeopardizing my secret identity, Ned?  I don't     \/
     *have* one, remember?"  --The Black Condor, _Black Condor_ #5
From: dyer@spdcc.com (Steve Dyer)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: Donald Spoto on Dietrich et al.
Date: 31 Aug 92 23:37:18 GMT
Article-I.D.: spdcc.1992Aug31.233718.28925
Organization: S.P. Dyer Computer Consulting, Cambridge MA

In article <la51mbINNq86@mizar.usc.edu> adolphso@mizar.usc.edu (adolphson) writes:
>>         ...Mary Martin and Janet Gaynor going off on vacations
>>         together, leaving their homosexual husbands alone to
>>         console each other.  
>For god's sake, what kind of outing is this?  Anyone with half
>a mind knew about Mary Martin and Janet Gaynor *years* and *years*
>and *years* ago.  It was no secret.

"Oh."

<mega-smiley head here>

-- 
Steve Dyer
dyer@ursa-major.spdcc.com aka {ima,harvard,rayssd,linus,m2c}!spdcc!dyer
From: anderson@macc.wisc.edu (Jess Anderson)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: musical finale
Date: 24 Aug 92 00:29:58 GMT
Organization: Madison Academic Computing Center, UW-Madison


In article <l9g2jjINNphg@mizar.usc.edu>
adolphso@mizar.usc.edu (adolphson) writes:

>Sing me out with a Hugo Wolf recital, including at least 
>the following:

>"Im Fr"uhling"
>"Die Spr"ode"
>"Die Bekehrte" 
>"Anakreons Grab"
>"Ganymede"
>"Nachtzauber"

Bravo, Arne!  What would I want, I wonder (oh Nachtzauber, that
*was* brilliant!)?

Bist du bei mir (Bach)
Abendempfindung (Mozart)
In questa tomba oscura (Beethoven)
Die Kraehe (Schubert)
Verlassende Maegdlein (Wolf)
Es ist vollbracht (Bach)

In another vein altogether, I'd be glad to be sent off
with Arvo Paert's "Passio" (the St. John Passion).

One of the great things about *all* the great suggestions
we've read on the subject, you don't *have* to die to enjoy
any of it.

-- 
Jess Anderson <> Madison Academic Computing Center <> University of Wisconsin
Internet: anderson@macc.wisc.edu <-best, UUCP:{}!uwvax!macc.wisc.edu!anderson
NeXTmail w/attachments: anderson@yak.macc.wisc.edu  Bitnet: anderson@wiscmacc
Room 3130 <> 1210 West Dayton Street / Madison WI 53706 <> Phone 608/262-5888
From: Furr@cup.portal.com (George Dalton Madison)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: memorial wishes
Date: Sun, 23 Aug 92 09:49:10 PDT
Organization: The Portal System (TM)
  <1992Aug22.144740.4272@cis.ohio-state.edu> <64445@cup.portal.com>
  <td-nzb-.jfh@netcom.com>

Jack Hamilton writes:
>>I mean, can you imagine a crowd full of leather people and grubby
>>bikers in a place like Forest Lawn???  With the "Guest of Honor"
>>dressed in *his* leather, septum-bone in place? (At least, prior
>>to being cremated....)
>
>That's a very good idea.  I think you should throw in a few drag queens for
>color, though.  They can be leather drag queens if you want.

No, thank you.  And not so much because you're suggesting drag
queens as because you're suggesting anything at all. I feel that
if someone wants their death to be celebrated in a certain way, it
should be done as *exactly* as possible, without addition or
improvisation.  At the risk of starting that eternal flame war
again, I don't see drag queens of any type at this event; you're
perfectly welcome to have as many as you want at yours.
 
() One of my favorite philosophical tenets is that people
() will agree with you only if they already agree with you.
() You do not change people's minds.
()      -- Frank Zappa, 1979
-----
[> George D. Madison | NBCS: B8f+t+w-e+s+k+a!cv | Just say NO to razors! <]
[> It's a BEAR thing -- you wouldn't understand. <|> furr@cup.portal.com <]