From: linan@argon.berkeley.edu (Mike Linan)
Newsgroups: talk.politics.animals
Subject: Blatant lies
Date: 17 Aug 92 22:02:00 GMT
Distribution: world
Organization: University of California, Berkeley
NNTP-Posting-Host: argon.berkeley.edu


In article <BszILu.DIn@wpg.com> russ@wpg.com (Russell Lawrence) writes:
>From article <16eeq0INN844@agate.berkeley.edu>, by linan@argon.berkeley.edu (Mike Linan):
>> ... [ much demon-talk and god-talk deleted ]
>ml> For the last time, whether I believe in demons or not is not the 
>ml> point.  CAN YOU UNDERSTAND?  The point is I never told you this 
>ml> and you misrepresented what I told you in an lying effort to 



>If you don't believe in demons, please say so, and I'll be happy
>to apologize.  


I'm sorry Russell.  I guess you aren't capable of understanding.  You 
obviously have some mental deficiancy that will not allow you to realize
that what I believe in is irrelevant to the issue and that the issue
is whether or not I explicitly told you that I believe in goddesses, 
goblins, demons and ghosts as you say I did.  Poor Russell has no way to
prove this and no way to get out of the lie he has told.


>Alternatively, if you think it's logically possible to believe in the 
>literal truth of the bible while not believing in the existence 
>of "demons", I'd greatly appreciate it if you'd explain the how's
>and why's.  In such a case, I think it'd be obvious to everyone
>that one of us has a lot to learn about clear thinking.


Sorry buddy, but it's not my job to explain my religion to you and after
all the crap I've taken from you over what I have disclosed to you, I'm
not inclined to explain anymore to you.  

I think you will find that far more people than you think will consider you 
to be the one who has a lot to learn Russell.


>ml> Is your interpretation of what you call "implying" the same thing 
>ml> as you claiming I SAID THESE THINGS to you?  NO!  The words 
>ml> demons, goblins, ghosts or goddesses have NEVER crossed my lips 
>ml> (or fingertips) when corresponding with you.  

>I believe they have crossed your lips, Mike, although I have 
>neither the time nor inclination to root through several months 
>of backup tapes for messages that may have been deleted prior to 
>the backup capture.  Again, if you don't believe in "spirits", why not
>just say so instead of quibbling about the verbatim text of 
>statements you've made over a period of many months? 

>ml> I believe in what I believe in.  I am not obligated to disclose 
>ml> my entire religious beliefs to you.  

>I would agree with you _if_ your religious beliefs were a private 
>matter, but to the extent that someone like yourself might say that 
>killing witch's or killing homosexuals or killing animals is ok 
>by god ("ok bi-got") then it doesn't make sense for him to turn 
>around and pretend that his beliefs are a private matter.  Such 
>beliefs are public in every sense of the word, since they 
>radically affect other beings.  


I don't have to pretend anything poor sap.  I don't owe you anything 
Russell and your proclaimations mean absolutely nothing to me.  You can
think my beliefs are supposed to be public knowledge for you to scrutinize
but it ain't gonna happen unless I decide so.  Just another example of how
the words and ideas of the Mighty Russell Lawrence are irrelevant to all 
but Russell.


>ml> You are mistaken so please, why don't you tell us why you lied?

>I may be mistaken, but I surely didn't lie.  To illustrate the 
>difference, a man like yourself who believes in demons may be 
>mistaken in his assumption that his beliefs are accurate 
>representations of reality, but this doesn't mean that his false 
>beliefs are deliberate misrepresentations.  After all, he may 
>have been mislead by preachers, or he may have misinterpreted the 
>evidence, or he might be too stupid to think clearly.  


Once again we see the sad example of how poor Russell cannot see that by
his saying I said something to him that I did not, he was lying.  Or, could
it be that this wiley rascal is just playing dumb and innocent to get out
of this lie he has been caught in?


>Suit yourself.  I'm sure that other readers have a pretty good 
>idea of your position.  Unfortunately, they may not fully realize 
>how the ideas that you've set forth have affected (infected) 
>societal distinctions between good actions and bad actions.  


That's good Russell.  I wanted them and you know my position.  So now if
they have only listened to me they will know my position.  If they have
listened to your lies, they will have been fooled by the great deceiver of
t.p.a.  


Hopefully they will be wary enough not to allow someone like you define
what is good or bad and which animals deserve to live or not for them as I'm
oh so sure you would like to do.  


>Russell Lawrence, WP Group, New Orleans (504) 443-5000

Mike Linan