From: jsm@rosencrantz.osf.org (John S. Morris)
Subject: Re: Dealer won't budge on '91 ST1100
Organization: Open Software Foundation
Date: Mon, 11 Jan 1993 17:26:31 GMT

In article <1993Jan11.150155.24990@linus.mitre.org> crawford@boole.mitre.org (Randy Crawford) writes:
[much detail about the K1 deleted]

You seem to be arguing about the K1's abilities. No argument that the K1 
missed the boat (and had terrible graphics ta boot!). My point was in 
response to:

>> >Harley, BMW and Ducati have developed styles of their own over the years.
>> >Now they are enslaved to them.  None can (or would) adapt to the technical

pointing out that BMW is by no means "enslaved" to their past. They leverage
their past. If you stop by the BMW museum you'll see all the BMW technology
"firsts", like ABS, the cat, etc. Innovative engineering and style is high 
on the BMW agenda. They just don't change things for change's sake. Even the 
Bimmers adhere to that philosophy. They might not be tops in HP (and in fact 
the Lexus' do have more HP), but they're damn fun to drive and now they're
recylcable!

>> Germany currently has a voluntary 100HP limit, the EC will make that law.
>Did this 100 BHP limit precede the advent of the K1?  Or was the K1 always
>slow and heavy, for other reasons?
Yes, the 100HP limit precedes the K1. 

>> but touring and sport touring rides. If you doubt there's insufficient
>> hp for competing in that market you haven't talked to anyone who's
>> come up against Pridmore on his K bike.
>
>His STOCK K bike?  Comparing professionally modified versions of cycles is
Yes, his STOCK bike. As far as I know, he doesn't own a modified K bike.
Last I knew he did have a modified R bike (this data may be old). The person
I know who was decimated by Pridmore said he was on a CLASS K bike. Nothing
special but the rider.

>:-)  `Piddling 58 hp' isn't a great way to convince _this_ reader of BMW's
>conviction to keep up with the Joneses.  And that's just what it takes.
You missed the sarcasm and the point. The point was you don't *need* lots
of horsepower to have fun. Unless you're a bench-rider. The ZX-11 (here
come the flames!) is designed to maximize power and speed. And I understand
from reading a service bulletin that the frist two years' tranny has a 
difficult time handling the power (second gear alignment problems). The 
Beemer's are conservatively built such that they should never suffer a 
serious engine failure from stress. And my point about the Luft turbo -
people add turbo's to K bikes producing incredible hp (why people do this I
don't know) without any internal mods but the clutch. How many other engines
can take such stress? My bottom line - BMW "keeps up" on a different level.

>Why would anyone prefer less power or poorer handling or less reliability
>(not a BMW issue) when more is available?  Why spend those hard earned bucks
There's very little competition for the GS or PD in the States. There used to 
be the Transalp and now there's the TDM and the Guzzi. The K100 has lots of
competition in the Concours, the ST1100 and now the GTS1000, however the
Beemer adheres to the 100HP limit because it's primary market is Germany
and most K100RS riders are not clamoring for more HP - they just want
that buzz to be fixed. 8-) I've never met a K rider who says, "yup it's
a real nice bike, but I wish it would go 17 MPH faster to 157MPH like that 
ZX11!" or "I wish I could lop a second or two off my 1/4 mile times for
those trips to the bank". So why do people buy the Kawi's or Honda's? Either 
because they're cheaper or faster. If it's the faster reason - I suspect it's 
because people lean more towards sport riding that the target BMW touring 
audience. Check out the Iron Butt riders - they're on BMW's or Wings.

>and then place your life in the hands of a bike which will (relatively
>speaking) bore you or fail to protect your arse to the best of modern 
>technology's ability?  That isn't logical. So it must be emotional.
I've never heard someone describe the GS as boring - either on the net
or in the press. In fact Cycle World and Motorcyclist have both said the 
GS may be the best all-round bike anyone makes. (And that's with the 
"piddling" hp!) However there's no argument that my buying a GS was emotional.
I just can't buy that it can't have logic for some folk.

>It's that trade-off between logic and emotion (and income) that dictates 
>the bike each of us rides.  Because the Beemers are not the lightning-fast, 
>great handling, inexpensive rides they could be, many of us will not buy them.
>Those who do must do so because they place greater value on other measures.
>It's my contention that those other measures are style or character.
This is true when you discard ill-founded rationales, sentimentality and 
hyperbole.

============================================================================
           Jono    DoD: 316    Beemers: '85 K100RS '92 R100GS 
    Voice: +1 (617) 621-8739 Fax: +1 (617) 621-0584 Email: jsm@osf.org
           "Too much of a good thing is never enough." -Luba