From: kbibb@maui.qualcomm.com (Ken Bibb)
Subject: Re: [news.admin.policy] Re: (repost) Serdar Argic FAQ - everything you didn't want to know, but he replied anyway
Organization: Qualcomm, Inc., San Diego, CA
Date: Tue, 5 Jan 1993 02:15:50 GMT

In <1993Jan4.225100.22213@walter.bellcore.com> cza@troy.cc.bellcore.com () writes:

>In article <1993Jan4.114135.22082@hellgate.utah.edu> galt%peruvian.utah.edu@cs.utah.edu writes:
>>In article <C0938E.rz@cs.uiuc.edu>, kadie@cs.uiuc.edu (Carl M. Kadie) writes:
>>>But this will disassociate mn.org from anatolia, which would be a Very
>>>Good Thing (tm) for mn.org.
>>>
>>>anatolia would then have to pay for a mail feed, and will be more likely
>>>to curb serdar because anatolia will pay for all of the mail that will
>>>be fed back to it from the posts.  If anatolia wants to pay for the
>>>privilege of being flamed and mailbombed, then that's their business.

>First of all, all commercially operated mail delivery
>systems do not charge for mail received but mail sent.

Are you sure that *all* commercial sites work this way?

>If this sensible rule applies to all networks, I would
>like to see the courage of all those scumbags who mailbomb any site when
>they are asked to put their money to where their mouth/fingers are. 
>Besides, mailbombing or trying to crash a site to silence one or
>too must be a crime.  I think one should press charges for that.
>The same applies to someone who posts to crash sites. 

I am not advocating mailbombing, nor was I one of the mailbombers.
As a past victim of mailbombing attempts, I have little sympathy
for mailbombers.  Argic is just an advanced form of mailbomber
who is trying to make the soc.culture.* newsgroups unusable by
flooding them, forcing uucp sites with small disks to drop those
newsgroups.

>>>
>>>But as I said earlier, I feel that posters *should* have valid email
>>>addresses where they can be reached.  If they are not willing to
>>>accept email, then they should not be a newsite.

>Apperently, there is no such requirement to post for the
>users of any site.   One can complain about about the content of any 
>posting to the newssite operator.  There are laws for
                ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Not when the operator is the user, and not when the feed site is
sympathetic to the cause of the poster.

>obscene, libelous, and malice intended postings to deal with.
>Posting in an irrelevant news group is not a crime based
>on any law or rules and requlations.  It is simply a violation/abuse 
>of network etiquette.  It is left to the judgement call of
>the site operator on how to deal with the user who violates this 
>etiquette.  To cut off people because of this act rather than
>prosecuting mailbombers will have the precedent for the future
>mailbombing acts (at least for mn.org).  

>This case has very unique characteristic and will be
>very problematic repercussion for mn.org in the future.  Because
>the user who is being thrown off from mn.org did not even use
>the mn.org facilities (systems/resources) for the postings.   
>A couple of yahoos traced the path and incited the others willfully to 
>mailbomb the site.  So, what kind of a case that is brought together 

Have you been following this thread for long?  You don't sound like
it.  I suggest you go back about a month and pick up the thread from
the beginning.  Considering the extremely bad publicity that Mutlu
was creating for mn.org, the amount of downtime that he was generating,
and the amount of resources required to transfer his mail, his presence
was beyond the capabilities of a hobbyist to handle and should move
on to a commercial feed.


>Right on the money.  I don't know who Serdar Argic is.  But there is a 
>strong speculation and hints that he might be Hasan Mutlu himself. 
>It is very well true in my opinion but I have no proof of this.
>However, Hasan Mutlu had never posted anything outside of 
>SOC.CULTURE.TURKISH for a long time until people, who did not like his 
>postings, have tried and managed to cut him off from the network using 
>the exact same tactics.  If he is the same person, I wonder why he 
>doesn't want his e-mail address to be public.  I certainly do
>not condone anyone who violates the net etiquette.  However, I
>despise those rebel rousers who mailbomb the sites and the site 
>operators who seem to let them get away with such crime.

I despise those who support blatant violators of the net.

-- 
Ken Bibb                "he heard the snow falling faintly through the
kbibb@qualcomm.com	 universe and faintly falling, like the descent of
jester@crash.cts.com     their last end, upon all the living and the dead."
				--"The Dead", James Joyce