From: kasab@luther.che.wisc.edu (Haig Kasab)
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.catholic
Subject: Re: polls and women priests
Date: 18 Nov 92 00:56:37 GMT
Organization: University of Wisconsin - Madison
Originator: kasab@luther.che.wisc.edu

In article <...> 15942@brahms.udel.edu (Stephen Barr) writes:
>The Church, in spite of enormous pressure to change, in
>spite of the weaker evidence from scripture and tradition,
>in spite of massive dissent even from theologians,
>has shown no inclination to change on contraception.
>If public opinion and agitation and pressure tactics
>could change Church doctrine it would have done so
>on contraception! 

Arguably, the Church is being just as stubborn on the one as it is on the
other.  Arguably, the Church has an institutional pride that precludes
meaningful, thoughtful, and spiritual discussion of these issues.  Arguably,
the Church is wrong in both cases.

>The Pope is very adamant, he appoints Cardinals who presumably share his
>views on this, they will elect the next Pope who therefore is likely to
>share these views also. The Pope is also systematically appointing
>bishops who he regards as orthodox on this question.

This still doesn't mean that the Church should not change its views, it
simply means that it will not change its views in, say, the next decade.  
Furthermore, just because the Pope is stacking the deck in his favor doesn't
mean that he is right to do it, or that the Church is in the right on these
issues.

>     So what will all the agitation and pressure tactics and propaganda
>for women priests mean in the end?  A lot of people will come to believe
>that the teaching is foolish and unjust. When it becomes clear that it
>won't change they will become disillusioned, disgusted with the Church,
>and severely alienated. Many will leave the Church. We see this reaction
>already, but it would doubtless be on a far more massive scale.

Actually, from the news reports that I have seen, many dissatisfied and
disillusioned Catholics would rather stay in the Church and attempt to
reform it than go elsewhere.  The "drop-out" rate for Catholics has not
significantly changed since the 1950's, at least not in the United States,
which is where the liberala are most vocal.  Why do they stick it out, even
though it is futile to democratically change an oligarchy?  Well, it's home
for them--it's what they grew up with, and it is the religious tradition
with which they are most familiar.  

>     Those who find the arguments against women priests weak, could try
>to show where they are weak. Just accusing the hierarchy of sexism,
>insensitivity, the disease of patriarchy, a desire to maintain their
>power, and all the rest, will accomplish exactly nothing toward having
>women ordained, but an enormous amount toward that future massive
>defection from the Church.

More to the point, just naming the problem does not make it go away.  I
doubt that you are going to see a massive wave of defection from the Church
in the future, even in the United States.  I also doubt that the Church will
make any real headway in coping with its ingrained sexism in the next few
years.  Change in the Church comes at a painfully slow pace, especially when
dealing with issues such as the roles of men and women in the Church and in
the world.

-- 
  Haig Kasab                             Arpanet: kasab@cae.wisc.edu
"Even the Devil can cite Scripture for his purpose"  
        _The Merchant of Venice_ I,iii,99
      The NSF and UW--Madison don't speak for me, nor I for them.
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.catholic