HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: lee@bluefuzz.sw.stratus.com (Lee Cooprider)
Newsgroups: rec.aviation
Subject: Re: Where oh where is mpuckett?
Date: 17 Aug 92 13:29:35 GMT
Organization: Stratus Computer, Software Engineering

>>In article <5528@transfer.stratus.com> lee@bluefuzz.sw.stratus.com 
>>   (Lee Cooprider) writes:

>>It's been so long since there has been an mpuckett from-line that my local
>>archive has purged them all and I can't find an address to email to.  Has the
>>ecoaviation business dried up, or are you just keeping it to yourself? :-)

>In article <1992Aug13.200750.3107@SSD.intel.com> earlb@ssd.intel.com 
> (Earl Brabandt) writes:

>I hope Margaret doesn't mind if I relate this but I ran into her at OSH and 
>I believe the flames awhile back were unfair to her and she's now kind 
>of burned out (so to speak) on Rec.Av from them--thus no recent postings.  
>Maybe if she's still listening, a few e-Mail apologies from those involved 
>will bring her back.  (Try mpucket@jacobs.cs.orst.edu.)  From what 
>I saw of the flame war, things were getting a little too personal.

Well, I glad I asked, and I am pleased with the tone of the discussion that
continued on this thread.  We need to be thoughtful when using this faceless
medium.  While I don't appreciate the "you idiot" flames, the "bzzzt, wrong"
style of presenting another point of view, I really cringed at the tone of
condescension that characterized a couple of the messages in the thread
mentioned above (note genders involved, also).

So, let's cheerily share our flying experiences, understandings, and opinions,
and let the perceptive readers sort the wheat from the chaff.

On that note, I spent a delightful day Saturday at the Geneseo Wings of Eagles
warbird airshow just south of Rochester, NY.  On airshow days, you have to
land at Dansville, 15 miles south, but the museum at the Geneseo grass strip
airport is worth a visit any day.  Dansville's FBO did a nice job of hosting
those of us who arrived by air, providing shuttle busses to the show, and the
SUNY campus in town provided cheap dorm rooms complete with flashbacks.

There was a flight of 18 AT-6's that arrived together Friday night and flew in
several formations during the show.  Plus the normal (for Geneseo) assortment
of bombers, trainers, reconnaissance and other aircraft from 1915 to the
Korean war, all of them flying.  This year they also had a C130 flyby, an
F-18 demo, an A-10 demo, and the Thunderbirds (though I found myself having
more fun with the older planes).

Given the cost of people maintaining and flying these old planes ($2000 per
hour to fly, for example, a B-25), I can't imagine that there will be airshows
like this 50 years from now where private citizens bring F16s and B52s to
airports around the country.  And, of course, the old warbirds are going away
faster than others are being reconditioned.  See them while you can.
-- 
Lee W. Cooprider				PP-ASEL/IA
Lee_Cooprider@vos.stratus.com			Skylane N2908F "Wiley"
From: cessna@kn5f.jsc.nasa.gov (Mark Taylor Evert)
Newsgroups: rec.aviation
Subject: Re: Who pays for it???
Date: 20 Aug 92 14:02:26 GMT
Organization: Loral Space Information Systems

In article <1992Aug19.150642.10242@sdf.lonestar.org> 
rjohnson@sdf.lonestar.org (Robert C. Johnson) writes:
> The other day I was talking to my (non-pilot) Dad about weather briefers,
> FSS's, VOR's, DME, TRACON, etc, etc, and he came up with a question
> that I could not answer:  "Who pays for it all?".
> 
> Ummm. . .Well. . .Ahhh. . .Heck, Dad, I don't really know!

It is funded by the Federal Aviation Administration through tax dollars.  
Some of those tax dollars come from federal taxes on aviation fuel and 
taxes on airline tickets as well as other user fees.


Mark T. Evert
Friendswood, TX

My opinions are my own.
Newsgroups: rec.aviation
From: amazon@sgi.com (Stormwind)
Subject: Flames (and bumper stickers)
Organization: X Industries, Heavy Weapons R&D
Date: Mon, 17 Aug 1992 14:29:21 GMT

(Mary Shafer) writes:
>You know, I've sat in meetings in which we discussed a test pilot's
>performance, examining his errors, playing back tapes and pointing
>things out on strip charts, but I have _never_ seen the kind of
>acrimonious behaviour that I've seen in the newsgroup.  

it's not just this newsgroup, it's 
the entire net at large.  if you want
a REALLY good example of unreasoning
name calling and mud flinging, take a
(short) look at talk.abortion.  
rec.aviation can't hold a candle to 
THAT group! (pun intended)

>Even the posters on rec.motorcycle, whose motto is "Flame to live,
>live to flame", have better manners.

actually, that's the motto of the Denizens
of Doom motorcycle club.  most of the 
DoD members are fairly humorous people
who "flame" for fun.  many of the flames
are of the rib-jostling type.

>I'd suggest that people who _have_ to be right and who _have_ to have
>the last word, no matter how trivial the provocation, find another
>group.  Try talk.bizarre.

ACK! NO! wrong group.  as an ex-t.b 
inhabitant myself, t.b is suffering
from an influx of uncreative newbies
and boring flaming.  alt.flame would
tend to be more appropriate for people
who have to have the last word.

most appropriate would be to put 
those people whose postings make
your hair stand on end into a killfile
of some flavor, if your newsreader
provides that wonderful facility, and
make sure you stay well out of that
person's airspace.

at times it's unavoidable to read 
hostility into such a sterile medium.
with a lack of tonality and body language,
it can be very hard to tell if someone
is being jocular, accusative, or downright
aggressive, and many people tend to read
in the negative reaction rather than taking
the neutral implications.  it's something
to keep in mind when both posting *and*
reading.

and on a lighter note, i REALLY liked 
the suggestion that another poster made
about r.a bumper stickers.  perhaps something
along the lines of the patch, something
smallish to go with the AOPA/EAA wings?

			stormwind

			hell's amazon
From: shoopak@romulus.rutgers.edu (-r.)
Newsgroups: rec.aviation
Subject: Ultralights ***
Keywords: ultralights, recreational flying
Date: 22 Aug 92 03:50:03 GMT
Organization: Rutgers Univ., New Brunswick, N.J.
Cc: shoopak




Hello, I know this may be a little out of the blue, but...oh, my, I >am<
sorry, that was a bad pun, ooops...anyhow, I was wondering who knows what
about Ultralights.  I took a look at the FAR's regarding their operation,
but what I would really like to know is:

	What's the average price for one?

	Is there any place in NJ where I can contact someone for
	instruction...e.g. club, Certified Instructor who delves
	in or specializes in ultralights?

	What is the practicality of using a "leisure/recreation"
	craft for short commuter hops?

Please reply by e-mail, thank you.

shoopak@romulus.rutgers.edu
From: dst+@cs.cmu.edu (Dave Touretzky)
Newsgroups: rec.aviation
Subject: nose gear guard; also Lifeguard
Date: 21 Aug 92 04:38:06 GMT
Organization: School of Computer Science, Carnegie Mellon


To guard against oversteering accidents damaging my nose gear in the future,
one of my mechanics built me a custom nose gear guard, which I will describe
in detail.  Other netters might want to make one for themselves, but my guy
is also willing to make them to order if you tell him what model aircraft
it's for.  His name is Jim Dietz and he can be reached c/o Corporate Jets
Maintenance at 412-466-8420.

Okay, here's what the thing looks like.  Take a big red banner and add
lettering to both sides that says "Do Not Exceed Turn Limits".  (He had the
lettering done by a shop that prints customized team jackets, so it should
hold up well outside.)  Now add some long strips of material at one end of
the banner.  Drape the banner over the nose wheel.  The long strips of
material go around either side of the nose gear fork and fasten with velcro.
It is not possible to attach a towbar to the nose gear while the banner is
velcroed in place.  A third long strip of material reaches up from the
banner and goes around the nose gear strut or trunnion, again fastening with
velcro, to call attention to that area.

In order to tow the aircraft, the line person has to remove this banner,
which forces him to spend some time staring at various pieces of your nose
gear which he could break if he oversteers it.  The lettering on the banner
is an additional reminder to be careful.  The thing is a bit of a pain to
remove and reinstall, which is the whole idea.  It's not enough of a pain to
prevent towing the aircraft, but it's enough to be an effective reminder
that the owner of this bird wants it treated specially.  I think it will be
effective.  Of course, if every plane on the ramp had one, then the
effectiveness would be reduced, but I see little danger of that happening.

................

I'm still flying around with the welded nose gear centering pin, waiting for
Piper's part to show up.  Yesterday I flew two livers for the Pittsburgh
Transplant Foundation.  I love working the radio as "Lifeguard 8147E"; we
got direct routings through the TCA, and Teterboro Tower even held some
planes that had called ready so we could take off as soon as we reached the
runway.  Talk about service!

-- Dave Touretzky,  CFI-AIM,  Seneca N8148E (``The Lifeguard Beast'')
Newsgroups: rec.aviation
From: dinsdale@berlioz.nsc.com (Steve McRobert)
Subject: Re: Glider Tow Pilots
Organization: National Semiconductor Corporation
Date: Sat, 22 Aug 1992 00:35:01 GMT

In article <1992Aug19.210751.14810@clpd.kodak.com> lafford@serum.kodak.com (Rick Lafford) writes:
>> 	That being said, if the soft release pop-up is done improperly,
>>or something untoward happens, there is a risk that the divergence Chris
>>mentions will occur.  After some reflection on all this, I am a lot less
>>enthusiastic about soft release than I used to be.  Net.widom strikes
>>again...
>
>I'm both an instructor and tow pilot so I'm curious; what advantage does a 'soft' release 
>that overcomes the various disadvantages.?

Well, right or wrong theh NCSA at byron CA usa advocates a soft release.
The advantage to us is that if someone does a hard release it puts a
knot in our towrope which means we can't wind it in with our winch.

OK, the towpilot should notice, and shouldn't snag the power lines with
the towrope, but it's fairly easy to just push the button and assume
the rope wound in.  We use the winch to avoid hitting the power line on
the approach to 19 and to speed up our operations.

I can't see it being very likely that the glider will hit the ring, we
just pulled up above the towplane remember?   You'd have to do a demon
dive to get down to where the ring goes.
As far as knowing when the glider went, both at byron and truckee the 
protocol is for the glider to call "off tow" on teh radio,
In any case, even after a bang and jerk I always look back to see the
glider has gone before I turn.

BTW, in camden australia the take off straight into low tow.  I can't
remember whether we climbed to normal high tow position before releasing
can anyone in aus enlighten me?

p.s. If anyone from the southern cross gliding club is reading this, or
anyone can forward it I'd like to say thanks for making a US pilot very
welcome, especially the towpilot who took me flying in his own tiger
moth after towing me and tolerated my appalling flying of his pride and
joy.
Bit disgraceful really, I am an expatriate brit but could NOT get used 
to holding LEFT rudder while climbing!
-- 
Steve Mc Robert (a.k.a. Dinsdale Piranha) PP ASEL, Glider, Tow Pilot
Organisation: National Semiconductor. Aircraft: DG300 GJ
Want to soar?  Call the Ames soaring club 510 516 1745 at Byron airport
Xref: sparky rec.aviation:13406 eunet.aviation:28
From: adf@crosfield.co.uk (alex france)
Newsgroups: rec.aviation,eunet.aviation
Subject: Re: DO228 and other type-rating questions
Date: 14 Aug 92 08:42:26 GMT
Organization: Crosfield Electronics, Hemel Hempstead, United Kingdom.

In article <WD.92Aug9180043@sam.cs.tu-berlin.de> wd@cs.tu-berlin.de (Wolfgang Diestelkamp) writes:
>On a related matter: Could people list the dirfferent
>requirements to get (or need) a type-rating in
>different countries.

A UK PPL allows me to fly as pilot in command of 'any single engined
landplane with a maximum take-off authorised weight of less than 5700 Kg'
So, currently, I could legally fly an AN-2, BAe Hawk, etc. There is a
multi-engined rating here, which requires an approved course of
tuition, a written exam (I think), and a flight test. It is not type
specific and carries the same 5700 Kg MTAW limit.

This is all about to change courtesy EEC normalisation to :-<

 - Multi-type ratings in manufacturer class (eg Beech, Piper, etc)
much as Wolfgang describes for Germany.

 - Type ratings for turbo-prop and jet engines.

 - no automatic 'Certificate of Experience' on twins - annual flight
tests come in.

However, in the articles I have seen they have not mentioned any
change in the MTAW of 5700 Kg. Does this mean that soon all European
PPL's will be allowed to fly an AN-2 as PIC?

Sorry, I don't know what's required for a DO228 type rating, but I'll
have a look and see if its in CAP-53 (at home). I'm sure we are all
intrigued to know how come Wolgang is looking for a Do228 type rating.
Care to expand Wolfgang?

Alex France, UK PPL/IMC.

# Alex France, Crosfield Electronics, | Phone: +44 442 230000 xt.3541 #
# Three Cherry Trees Lane,            | Fax:   +44 442 232301         #
# Hemel Hempstead, HP2 7RH, England.  | Email: adf@crosfield.co.uk    #
From: bwood@diva.Berkeley.EDU (Blake Philip Wood)
Newsgroups: rec.aviation
Subject: Re: Corrosion pinholes in an aluminum C-150 fuel tank
Date: 12 Aug 1992 13:08:11 GMT
Organization: /etc/organizaton
Distribution: usa
NNTP-Posting-Host: diva.berkeley.edu

In article <1992Aug11.161617.20549@nntpd.lkg.dec.com> landry@solvit.enet.dec.com (Chris Landry) writes:
>
>	I'm still pretty new at all this, but departing on a coast-to-
>	coast-to-coast trip with a known fuel tank leak, especially
>	one that is leaking right through the skin, doesn't seem
>	particularly safe to me.
>
>	Any thoughts?
>
>	I'm glad it worked out OK for your Dad.
>
>	chris

The stain on the side of the plane was thought to be from the tank 
overflow, which is normal.  It went very quickly (as in two fuel stops)
from a nuisance to an obviously severe problem.



-- 
                 Blake P. Wood - bpw@ctxsys.lanl.gov (505) 665-6524
                 Group P-1, MS-E526, LANL, Los Alamos, NM  87545
From: dmcleod@ducvax.auburn.edu
Newsgroups: rec.aviation
Subject: Re: Towing Mooneys
Date: 15 Aug 92 22:17:46 GMT

In article <19832@leadsv.UUCP>, netnews@leadsv.UUCP (Leads Network News) writes:
> One of the advertisers (Norm ?????) in the "MAPA Log", the newsletter
> for the Mooney Aircraft Pilots Association, sells a device that locks
> into the nose-gear of a Mooney and prevents anyone from inserting a
> tow bar.  The device is very light and inserts in such a manner that
> it will not interfere with normal operation of the landing gear should
> you forget to remove it before flight.  I have one of these and use it
> whenever I park my plane away from home at an FBO.

Having worked on a flight line for a while I do have one comment on these
devices.  It is sometimes necessary to move transient aircraft for
various reasons.  We used to _request_ that pilots not use these devices
if they were parking on the main ramp.  We would park them on the grass
beside the ramp if they wanted to use these.  It would be a good idea to
inform the FBO that you have one of these before you leave the airport if
you're not at your home field.  Otherwise, the only method of moving the
plane (I'm talking single-engine) is to have one person sit on the tail
to lift the nosewheel and point it in the direction it needs to be rolled.

- David McLeod
- dmcleod@ducvax.auburn.edu
From: dmcleod@ducvax.auburn.edu
Newsgroups: rec.aviation
Subject: Re: Why not a bi-winged sailplane??
Date: 20 Aug 92 18:06:46 GMT
Distribution: usa

All of this talk about interference between biplane wings has gotton my
curiosity up.  Can someone explain to me why the twin hulls of something
like a catamaran reduce drag through the water (yes I know a sailplane
and a sailboat are not the same... unless you're having a really bad day
in the air or a good day on the water :-).  I have always heard that the
twin hulls accelerate the water between them.  I would assume that the
same would hold for any fluid-foil (my own word).  Anybody know why this
doesn't hold in the air?

- David McLeod
- dmcleod@ducvax.auburn.edu
From: cruz@ACF3.NYU.EDU (Nancy Cruz)
Newsgroups: rec.aviation
Subject: Scanner Recomendations.
Date: 13 Aug 92 17:29:17 GMT

Hi, I am interested in purchasing a scanner to pick up Air Bands.
Can anyone recomend one.  I saw one made by Sony called IC-PRO-80 on sale 
for 319.00.  Has anyone had any experience with this model?

	Thanks.

	cruz@acf3.nyu.edu
From: jeq@i88.isc.com (Jonathan E. Quist)
Newsgroups: rec.aviation
Subject: Re: That would never happen to me...BUT
Date: 13 Aug 92 16:24:00 GMT
Article-I.D.: i88.1992Aug13.162400.26582
Organization: INTERACTIVE Systems Corporation, Naperville, IL

In article <ty4mgdq@quantum.on.ca> aboyd@quantum.on.ca (Andrew Boyd) writes:
>On the way to oshkosh, after clearing customs at chippewa county (CIU,
>SW of Sault St Marie) I heard some yo-yo in a cherokee call chippewa 
>unicom asking them to send the fuel truck out, as he had run out of gas 
>on the taxiway (!)
...
>sadistic, even for an instructor.  Imagine how anxious the pilot must 
>have been, looking at those fuel gauges.  Imagine how badly he must 
>have had to pee if he actually took off with full tanks :->
>
>Worse, you're not supposed to leave the a/c (even to pee) until the 
>US customs guy has said it's OK to.  I wonder if he made it to oshkosh?

Oh, I don't know.  If he had been watching the fuel guages on the way
in, and knew how low his fuel was, he probably no longer had to pee.
-- 
Jonathan E. Quist                              INTERACTIVE Systems Corporation
jeq@i88.isc.com  '71 CL450-K4 "Gleep", DoD #094        Naperville, IL
Which is worse: using vast wealth to trounce a small country on the battlefield,
or using vast wealth to trounce several countries on the basketball court?
From: spenny@sw.stratus.com (Steve Pennypacker)
Newsgroups: rec.aviation
Subject: Re: BD-10 status
Date: 14 Aug 92 16:51:06 GMT
Organization: Stratus Computer, Inc.

In article <1992Aug13.170131.7675@nlm.nih.gov>, masys@nlm.nih.gov (Dr. Daniel R. Masys) writes:
> In article <1992Aug13.151227.8115@CSD-NewsHost.Stanford.EDU> ginsberg@t.Stanford.EDU (Matthew L. Ginsberg) writes:
> >
> >2.  They have 61 orders for aircraft kits thus far.
> >
> >They have a newsletter that I will now be getting and I'll post its
> >contents on a regular basis.
> >
> So Matt, does this mean the natural follow-on to building an Eagle
> is to build a pressurized supersonic jet?  Gonna opt for the taildragger
> version? :-)

I've heard he's going to put an extra wing on top and be the first person
to fly supersonic in a biplane.

-- 
     Steve Pennypacker		     PP-ASEL

     spenny@wiley.ts.stratus.com     Stephen_Pennypacker@vos.stratus.com
From: ron@pilot.njin.net (Ron Natalie)
Newsgroups: rec.aviation
Subject: Re: What type of plane is a King Air Super 200?
Date: 23 Aug 92 15:00:45 GMT
Organization: Rutgers Univ., New Brunswick, N.J.

> Seems to me that both those wouldn't have a problem... of course, the takeoff
> roll on the shuttle might be a little long... :-)

Nah, the shuttle hardly uses any runway after you stand it up and
strap on those JATO bottles :-)
Newsgroups: rec.aviation
From: BCLEWIS@LSTC2VM.stortek.com (Brian Lewis)
Subject: Re: DME Answers
Organization: StorageTek SW Engineering
Date: Tue, 18 Aug 1992 14:46:48 GMT

As a follow-on to Dave's posting:
 
I've never heard the T-E-S-T identifier broadcast, but I have tuned VORs
which had *NO* identifier when they were out of service or in maintenance.
I don't know if the DME part of a VORTAC or VORDME can be operational
when the VOR is not, but (not having perfect pitch), I make sure I hear the
identifier twice within 30 seconds before relying on the VOR.
 
Brian
From: dfr@usna.navy.mil (PROF D. Rogers (EAS FAC))
Newsgroups: rec.aviation
Subject: Re: IFR/Semi-Auto Horror, Aerobatics, & maybe some other stuff
Date: 15 Aug 92 01:46:49 GMT
Organization: U. S. Naval Academy, Annapolis, MD

In article <19920814.132639.414@almaden.ibm.com> martinl@torolab6.VNET.IBM.COM writes:

!! (quoting from memory) .. customs was upset at Bill's semi-automatic rifle,
!! which was banned in Canada.

!Banned? Since when? I my guess is that you either had some exotic looking
!piece of hardware, or an ignorant customs officer, or a combination of the
!two. Personally, I have not had any problems taking my handguns back and
!forth over the border (with the correct paperwork), but I have heard some
!stories where people did, due to lack of training on the custom's part.
!Most likely, you were doing something perfectly legal. What type was it,
!anyways?

I've posted previously on the actual text in the AOPA CANADA book
which does not mention semi-automatic weapons. I also talked
to Cindy (forget her last name) at AOPA headquarters. She read me
the actual Canadian regulations. It seems that there are three
categories -- not allowed, restricted, and by implication allowed.

It turns out that semi-automatic weapons are on the restricted list.

So we probably have a customs official that is a little unclear what
is and is not `allowed' plus the lack of prior paperwork creating
an unsure situation on the official's part. In any case the
customs lady and the security people were all as nice as can be
and it all worked out.

The bottom line is that I would not recommend taking such a weapon
into Canada. A shotgun or bolt action rifle would be just as
satisfactory a survival weapon and not create doubt in the
custom peoples minds.

It was a Ruger 227 centerfire.

Dave Rogers

P.S. I think we have exhausted this topic.
From: wjb@hplvec.LVLD.HP.COM (Bill Buse)
Newsgroups: rec.aviation
Subject: Re: Jets and short fields
Date: 18 Aug 92 22:44:13 GMT
Organization: Hewlett-Packard Co., Loveland, CO

In rec.aviation, cessna@kn5f.jsc.nasa.gov (Mark Taylor Evert) writes:
 > I need to double-check, but I beleive that the main runway on Maui is 
 > under 5000' long (maybe only 4000') and 737's are routinely operated off 
 > of it by Hawaiin Airlines.

About 14 years ago when I flew into St. Thomas on an Eastern Airlines 727,
the runway there was under 5000' (seems like 4500' if I remember correctly).
To make things worse, the ocean was at one end of the runway and a hill was
at the opposite end.  At that time, the St. Thomas airport was rated by the 
ALPA as the most dangerous (or unsafe) commercial airport.  

Bill Buse
wjb@hpisla.lvld.hp.com