From: gsmith@concour.cs.concordia.ca (Gene Ward Smith)
Newsgroups: soc.religion.christian
Subject: Re: Self-love, self-esteem, and "saving the earth" as heresies
Date: 11 Apr 92 03:20:51 GMT
Organization: Centre Interuniversitaire en Calcul Mathematique Algebrique

In article <Apr.9.04.09.42.1992.16946@dartagnan.rutgers.edu>
smayo@wang.com (Scott Mayo) writes:

>>"You are a light for all the world. A town that stands on a hill
>>cannot be hidden. When a lamp is lit, it is not put under the
>>meal-tub, but on the lamp-stand, where it gives light to everyone in
>>the house.  And you, like the lamp, must shed light among your
>>fellows, so that, when they see the good you do, they may give praise
>>to your Father in heaven." Matt 5:14-16

>This is a call, pure and simple, to live as purely as we can, as witness
>to our love for our Lord. This doesn't support your view or mine. It
>simply indicates that we should try to live morally. Neither heresy nor
>very suprising. I sometimes do good; it does not prove that I *am* good.

Well, read what it says! It says you *are* a light. It does have a call,
and the call is--don't hide that light. Let it shine. 

To me this is typical of the way we want to argue with God. We hear,
"You are a light to the world!", and the immediate reaction is, no I'm
not. Someone was asking what sin was. Sin is this argument we carry on
with God, who is not in time. We see ourselves in time, and as sinful
and unredeemed. God sees us as He defines us to be in eternity. Who do
you think will win this argument?

>>"What will a man gain by winning the whole world, at the cost of his
>>true self" Matt 16:26

>>This makes no sense unless your true self--who you really are--is
>>good. 

>Close. The self is *valuable*, extremely so in God's eyes. It is worth
>saving, which is why Jesus died on a cross for us. Valuable does not
>equal good.

What God made--our real self, is good, meaning perfect. Anything God
makes is good. What we think we have made in opposition to God, but
which has no metaphysical standing in eternity is another matter. That
is why the world is well lost if we only gain this pearl, our real
self.

>>"A pupil is not superior to his master, but everyone, when his training
>>is complete, will reach his teacher's level" Luke 6:40

>>Jesus is telling us we will reach his level. An obvious New Age heresy!

>What an interesting translation you are using. 

What is *this* crack supposed to mean? I used the New English Bible,
which I chose not in order to grind any ax, but because I like it
on literary grounds. 

>>Jesus answered, "Is it not written in your own Law, 'I said: You are
>>gods'?  Those are called gods to whom the word of God was
>>delivered--and Scripture cannot be set aside. Then why do you charge
>>me with blasphemy because I, consecrated and sent into the world by
>>the Father, said, 'I am God's Son'?"

>I don't think that *I* can achieve the goodness and perfection of God.

What do you think God has in mind?

>It seems to me that a number of other verses might be marshalled in my
>defense. There are a few potent verses
>in the OT, pointing out that "all our rightousness is filthy rags before
>God", which says it all, really.

Our righteousness is as nothing, if you mean the "righteousness" which
the ego wants to claim in its endless quest for self-inflation. This
is different than the righteousness God offers, *and which it is our
duty to accept*. 

>>The heresy hunters didn't like this sort of talk back then either.  If
>>your impulse when you see someone manifesting their privilege as a
>>child of God is "crucify him!", I think you need to take a look at
>>this attitude and ask why. You might find it is just this attitude
>>which is blocking your progress.

>For some reason "blocking your progress" rings in my ears as a Newage
>buzzword. I'm not making progress, in that sense, at all. 

Well, sorry. Don't you want to?

>I'm being redeemed by my saviour, and doing my best not to make the
>process more difficult than it has to be.

What do you think I am talking about? This is the whole point--you
*are* going to make the whole process more difficult for yourself if
you insist on clinging to your definition of who you are in opposition
to God's definition of who you are. The atonement is the whole point,
so not blocking it is crucial. Don't judge yourself and don't judge
others is crucial! God does not force anything on you, so *you* must
decide you are willing to give up your definition of yourself as a
sinner, and accept instead the definition given by atonement.




--
     Gene Ward Smith/Brahms Gang/CICMA/Concordia University 
                  gsmith@concour.cs.concordia.ca