Newsgroups: bit.listserv.catholic
Date:         Wed, 4 Nov 1992 18:20:45 MST
From:         Brent Winiger <ABDWINIG@IDBSU.IDBSU.EDU>
Subject:      Re: Homosexuality

On Wed, 4 Nov 1992 11:31:16 -0700 WERLING said:
>On Mon, 2 Nov 1992, Brent Winiger wrote:
>
>> Many of us on this list would tell you, Andrew, that
>> we at one time also doubted the existance of God.  I personally will tell you
>> that I could not have returned to Christianity had it not been for an ample
>> supply of historical evidence for the Christian premises.
>
>I'd be interested in learning of this evidence.
>

Oh-oh. Can they kick me off the net for using too much bandwidth?  I'm not
sure, but I know I can get fired from my job if I write as much on this
subject as I'd like.  (Afterthought - because I'd be not working)
     Although my faith, is not entirely dependent on the historical case for
Christianity, I could not have returned without sufficient evidence that the
historical premises are true. For me that means: 1). That Jesus really did rise
 from the dead.  2).  He was who he said - God.  3).  The Bible is the inspired
Word of God and has not been substantially altered in meaning from its original
form.  There are other premises, that further define my faith, such as
Tradition of the Church, but not completely necessary for me to embrace the
basic Chrisitan faith.   Obviously , I can't do justice for the evidence that
these are true in this space, but I'll give you a few highlights Andrew.
     - Many extra-biblical sources from the first and second centuries confirm
Jesus as a man of history, and that he worked supernatural miracles.
     -Twenty-seven New Testament documents give us a pretty good idea of what
kind of man Jesus was.  Evidence is good for those documents authenticity and
accuracy to this day.  (Way too much detail to go in this thread).
     -The witness of the early Church Fathers provides further evidence.
     -The Messianic prophecies that were fullfilled in the Life of Jesus
provide proof of the Diety of Jesus as well as for the inspiration of the
Old Testament.
     - Other prophecies in both Testaments that have been historically and
accurately fullfilled give us reason to believe the Bible is inspired.
     - Confirmation from archaeological sources give us reason to believe in
the accuracy of the Bible.
     - Numerous evidence experts such as Simon Greenleaf (Supreme Court's
expert on evidence) have studied and personally decided in favor of the
Bible's authenticity.
     - The life-changing Christian experience we can witness in millions of
people like myself provides evidence.

     Andrew, note I didn't touch on evidences that a God must exist, such as
those evidences proposed by cosmologists such as Hugh Ross.  Nor did I
mention the more philosophical arguments advanced by people such as C.S. Lewis
or St. Augustine.


>>     Please tell us who you believe Jesus was.
>
>This is what I do believe: Jesus was a thinker, a critic of the Judeaism
>of his contemporaries, and one of many people of his day with followers
>(disciples) who thought he was the messiah.
>

But he didn't claim to be a thinker.  He claimed something much more
significant.  Do you think he lied?  Maybe he was crazy?


>Whether or not he really was more holy than common folk is not for me to say.
>

You are the one who has to decide.


>> According to Scripture, He
>> claimed to be God, and convinced many of his contemporaries that he
>> indeed was.
>
>Lots of people did the same thing.

Nonsense.  Budda didn't claim to be God.  Mohammed didn't make that claim.
Those guys are still in the ground.  Jesus rose from the dead.


>
>> His claim was obviously either true or false and is important enough that it
>> should be given very serious consideration by everyone.
>
>Believe me, I have been giving it serious consideration.  Why do you feel
>it is so important?  Is it really that fascinating that someone calls
>himself God and convinces people that he is?

Only when they can back it up.  In my mind, Jesus has.


>
>Did not Charles Manson do something similar?  How about Pat Robertson,
>Orrell Roberts, et cetera?
>

Again, nonsense.  I've never heard of Manson working a supernatural miracle.
I don't think Mr. Robertson or Mr. Roberts  claims to be a diety.  And when
they die, I doubt if you'll see them back in three days.  I believe the latter
two worship Jesus, and although people give them lots of money, I don't know
anyone who worships Roberts and Robertson.

>> I think that question
>> is in fact, so important, that if a person is in doubt, it greatly out-weighs
>> any other concerns he or she may contemplate.
>
>I don't know if this is true in general or not.  I also don't know if it
>"should" be.  Maybe it's a completely irrelevant question.

Sure it is true Andrew, since our eternity may depend on it.


>
>
>Andrew Werling on Planet Yip   awerling@nmsu.edu   yip@acca.nmsu.edu

Brent
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