From: bbooth@x400gate.bnr.ca (Brad Booth)
Subject: Re: Attack of the Seperatists
Originator: bbooth@bcrks6
Reply-To: bbooth@x400gate.bnr.ca (Brad Booth)
Organization: BNR, Ottawa, ON, Canada
Date: Wed, 16 Dec 1992 20:32:16 GMT


iw@tosser.Rational.COM (The_Devine_Dolly) writes:
> bbooth@x400gate.bnr.ca (Brad Booth) writes:
> >> It is not enough to claim that you have feminist principles, if you do not
> >> also have a feminist consciousness.  And more and more I believe in the
> >> politics of oppression which says that if you are not of the opressed
> >> all you can do is be a supporter.  Malcolm X had a lot to offer in some
> >> respects.
> 
> >And in reverse, you can't understand what it means to be a man if you
> >don't also have a male consciousness.
> 
> Whats your point here?

My point being that Vikki and yourself were willing to state that
us guys "don't get it."  That because we are men, there is no way
that we can truly understand.  You are in part doing to us, what
you claim we are doing to you.  How can you claim to know us so 
well, yet turn around and tell us that we can't understand what
it's like to be female.

> But after a certain level, I find - no matter how 
> understanding they are - that there are issues that are important to 
> me, and other feminists, that they just cannot get.  They either have
> to chose to accept our word that it is so based on our life experience,
> or based on their life experiences decide that we are over reacting.
> Thats where the cracks really show - when you are not of the opressed,
> there will be things that you will not understand.

You touched on a key point here... it's based on life's experiences.
Your experiences affect your understanding of the situation.  My
experiences affect mine.  There's probably other feminists that have
different experiences than yourself, and therefore have a different
understanding.

Everyone is unique and has different life experiences.  Is it right
to say that one person's understanding is not correct or invalid
simply because they disagree with you, their a different colour,
a different gender or a different sexuality?

> The same is true in queer/straight politics.  I have given up counting
> the number of times straight people have said to me, that they cannot
> understand why it is so important for gay people to have the military
> ban lifted.

And likewise, there are gay people who can't understand why it's so
important to have same-sex marriages.  Hard to believe, but these
people do exist.  Their experiences are different, but it doesn't
make their understanding of the situation any less valid.

> So while I would like to think that the oppressed and their supporters
> can be unified, I do not believe any more that both can play equal
> roles in the liberation of the oppressed.

I agree, they cannot play equal roles... simply because we are not
all the same.  All our experiences are different, and there are times
where the supporters may play a more key role than the oppressed, and
vice versa.

Ciao,

    __o     Brad Booth              | "I want you/
  _`\<,_    Bell-Northern Research  |  to know me only as/
 (*)/ (*)   Ottawa, Ontario, Canada |  what I believe I am."
----------  bbooth@x400gate.bnr.ca  |     ... Fiftyfour-40
Newsgroups: soc.bi