From: lbs@madeira.phys.ufl.edu (Lech Borkowski)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.polish
Subject: Re: common Polish-German action (was: Nazi Camps)
Date: 5 Sep 92 02:21:17 GMT
Organization: University of Florida Physics Department - CMT Group

In article <1992Aug25.213113.21458@monu6.cc.monash.edu.au> s1137020@giaec.cc.monash.edu.au (Mariusz Prokopczyk) writes:
>In article <a6bc453c@random.se> ianf@random.se (Ian Feldman) writes:

>>  When calling the camps "Polish" the editors are merely trying to
>>  be accurate in geographical terms, isn't that right and, besides,
>>  they're not _accusing_ the Poles of having been in charge, are
>>  they? [rhetorical questions both].

 Now, with all respect to you Mr. Feldman, this is really 
a ridiculous statement.  Since when the word "Polish" refers 
*only* to geography? 
Is it something that all the kids in your neighborhood know and only 
a few stubborn Poles lack brains to understand the true meaning 
of those terms? Quoting Webster's dictionary:
^1 Polish : of, relating to, or characteristic of Poland, the Poles, or Polish
 

 Caling the German Nazi concentration camps "Polish" is just as
adequate as calling the German Wehrmacht "The Russian Army" to describe
the geographical presence of the German forces on the eastern front
in Russia.

 
>I honestly doubt whether the above are rhetorical questions. If someone
>publish that there was an orgy in a family X's house without mentioning
>that family X were terrorized by a bandits which made this orgy, he
>could be easily sued for defamation. The problem might not be so easy
>when it comes to offend a whole nation, but circumstances and emotional
>similarities are clear.
>Prevention of blaming current society for some of its historical actions
>should not be mixed with an attempt to falsify a history.

>>  Hmmm...  perhaps the Poles, that like to think of themselves as
>>  more "churchy" and adhering to Christian values more than others,
>>  ought to study and then live up to the intentions of the 1966
>>  Polish Episcopate's letter to the German clergy, in which the
>>  Polish bishops forgave the German people for past injustices and
>>  asked to be forgiven for any of Polish own in return.

 It is not a matter of forgiveness how you call the German Nazi
camps. Forgiveness does not imply rewriting the history. 
Sorry, but I don't understand what type of "logic" you are 
using here, if any. With equal success you could claim
that the concentration camps did not exist at all.    
 
 

>>  Of course, the popular Polish sentiment in regard to the latter is
>>  that because the Poles were victims and then made to suffer Vile
>>  Foreign Communism for 45 more years then this suffering automatical-
>>  ly ABSOLVES and CLEANS them as a whole from any past wrongdoings
>>  against Germans or any other nationalities among its minorities.

>>  Perhaps the Canadian Polish Congress ought to ask itself aloud
>>  just what IS the goal of its post-factum semantics-righting
>>  activities.  As long as they're mainly interested in substituting
>>  one national label that's associated with those camps with another,
>>  this effort is, to the best of my ability, misplaced and hardly
>>  JUST towards the German people as such.  Remember, the Germans
>>  have wronged but they are not the same people now as of half a
>>  century ago.
>>--Ian Feldman / ianf@random.se /(ianf@dada.uucp)/ "It doesn't matter who

 The last two paragraphs are quite interesting. No one here says
that when using the term "German Nazi camps" we are putting an eternal
blame for all generations of Germans to come.  

 Now, I really would like to know why Feldman so heartily objects 
to calling those camps the German Nazi camps and sugests that we accept
them as "Polish camps"! 

 It seems to me that you are trying to say that it is a matter
between the Germans and Poles to sort out how to call 
the concentration camps and thus implicitly suggest that there was 
a common war-time German-Polish action as well.


 As a side note, I would like to add that the Polish underground
delivered to the Allies detailed description of location and situation
in the German Nazi camps during the war. The Allies, especially 
the British and the American administrations were asked by 
the Polish underground to take decisive action to destroy the camps 
or at least to destroy the communication lines leading to the camps, 
i.e. railways etc. Documentation about the extermination of Jews 
in Poland was delivered e.g. by the secret couriers from Poland to Britain
and US. One of those couriers delivered such material to the Roosevelt
administration. His name is Jan Karski. He is still alive. He briefly
appears in Lanzman's film "Shoah". I read Karski's interview
in which he complained that Lanzman conducted a very long interview
with him but chose to present in the film only the piece that 
suited his vision. Of course, Lanzman had the right to do so,
he was the director after all. But people watching the film should be aware
that a lot of material that did not fit Lanzman's vision was
left out.
 Even Alan Dershovitz (so rabidly Anti-Polish :-)) writes 
in his book "Chutzpah" that somebody high in the Rosevelt 
administration chose not to tell the president about the Karski's
report. Sorry, I don't remember that official's name. You can
check it in Dershovitz's book.
 It is very convenient for the British and the American administrations
to have avoided being questioned on their inaction about
the Holocaust. After the World War II they claimed "we didn't know".

Yes, they did know. 

 Lech Borkowski
Newsgroups: soc.culture.polish,soc.culture.jewish