HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: scottb@ppc-a.isc-br.com (SCOTT BURRINGTON)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
Subject: A couple of stories...
Date: 16 Dec 92 21:56:53 GMT
Organization: ISC-Bunker Ramo Corporation, Spokane, WA.


I read a couple of stories in our local (Spokane, Wa.) print media
today that I thought I would retell for you.  The stories were
included in a column by a local writer whose opinions I don't care
for too much, so don't tell anyone that I read it.

Both stories were told by a local TV station sports guy named
Rick Lukens.

1.  In 1928 or '29 Babe Ruth visited Spokane.  He made an appearance
    where a dozen or so kids were picked out of the crowd and given
    an autographed ball.  One of those kids was Lukens' mom.  He said
    the only thing his mom remembered from it was telling Ruth that
    he shouldn't be chewing gum.  Ruth removed the gum and stuck it
    behind his ear.

    Sixty years or so later, Hank Aaron came through town, and Lukens
    got him to autograph the same ball.  "I was having this religious
    experience and to him it was no big deal" said Lukens.

    Lukens (of course) still has the ball.  It is insured for $3000
    and it is not for sale.

2.  Lukens was doing a TV story on a local rookie ball second baseman
    named Kevin Higgins.  Higgins was a fan of Pete Rose, and this
    happened during the time that Rose was having his off field
    troubles.  The angle of the story was that Higgins kept a Rose
    baseball card in his cap when he played.

    The night they did the story, the card was missing, and Higgins
    didn't want to take the field without it.  So Lukens drove home,
    and got a '71 or '72 Pete Rose miniature card of limited release,
    valued at about $30.  Lukens told Higgins he could use it for the
    night, then he had to give it back.

    The summer sped by, Higgins skipped town, and the card was gone.

    So, anyone know what happened to Kevin Higgins, who played for
    the Spokane Indians ( SD Padres rookie ball ) ?

-Scott
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
From: spira@panix.com (Greg Spira)
Subject: Re: The Mets' All-Time Team
Date: Sat, 12 Dec 1992 08:14:56 GMT
Distribution: na
Organization: PANIX Public Access Unix & Internet, NYC

In article <1992Dec10.195806.12740@asd.com> scott@asd.com (Scott Barman) writes:
>
>In article <8DEC199215392991@jhuvms.hcf.jhu.edu> doctor8@jhuvms.hcf.jhu.edu (Jason Abner Miller) writes:
>
>>Announcers:  Ralph Kiner, Bob Murphy, and Lindsey Nelson, the original 3.
>>		I will not accept Tim McCarver on this list because I don't
>>		like him; Rusty Staub is the color commentator
>
>I like Timmy.  He's good to listen to.  Rusty is OK.  I hate Fran Healy
>and wish SportsChannel would dump him.  Oh well...
>
As Curt Smith says in Voices in the Game, Healy considers it his "martial
call to reshape baseball in a cast of boredom."  He is awful, terrible,
etc. and has been since he started doing Yankees radio a decade ago.
And Staub, I think is only a little better, though he has improved since
he started - when he began, his broadcasts were like a 3 hour recital of
cliches.    Virtually everybody on the field under 35 was either "a fine
young player" or "a fine young man."  And Kiner tends to flounder without
McCarver around.

If only Sportschannel could learn from MSG and put together professional
broadcasts with professional announcers.

Greg 


Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
From: scott@asd.com (Scott Barman)
Subject: Re: All-Henderson Team;All-Jewish Team
Organization: American Software Development Corp., West Babylon, NY
Date: Wed, 16 Dec 1992 15:38:41 GMT

In article <1992Dec15.035537.10544@midway.uchicago.edu> thf2@midway.uchicago.edu writes:
>How about an all-Jewish team?
>
>C: Moe Berg
>1B: Hank Greenberg
>2B: Rod Carew
>SS:
>3B:
>OF: John Lowenstein
>OF:
>OF:
>P: Sandy Koufax
>P: Steve Stone
>P: Ken Holtzmann

(In my best downtown Brooklyn/Jewish accent--which isn't too hard for
this native Brooklynite):

So how about Art Shamsky?!  Such a nice boy.  :-)  :-) :-)

-- 
scott barman			| <This space intentionally left blank>
scott@asd.com			|
 (I can barely speak for myself, you expect me to speak for my employer??)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
From: roger@crux.Princeton.EDU (Roger Lustig)
Subject: Re: Mattingly discussion, take 2.
Originator: news@nimaster
Reply-To: roger@astro.princeton.edu (Roger Lustig)
Organization: Princeton University
Date: Sat, 19 Dec 1992 07:05:19 GMT

In article <1gtc3dINNal1@transfer.stratus.com> jmann@vineland.pubs.stratus.com writes:
>In article <949@blue.cis.pitt.edu> genetic+@pitt.edu (Dr. Dave)  
>Why say "don't bother" before looking at the evidence?  I agree

We've looked, believe me.

>with you that all the stats I've seen to date show that
>BA with RISP is basically noise, fluctuating from season to season,
>with a small number of chances in the first place, and therefore
>not reliable.  But I still think that SOME players might bat
>better in some situations in other.  What if someone comes back
>with statistics that say that Joe X (or Don M) hit significantly
>better with runners in scoring position over a large number of
>at-bats. For example, if a player, over a 12 year career, hits
>50 points higher with RISP, that probably says that player does
>respond well in such situations. (Now, I haven't seen any
>stats that show anyone doing this over that period of time,
>but if someone showed them to me I'd guess they'd be significant.)

I wouldn't .  Remember that you have to adjust your alpha levels
(points at which you call a result "significant") to reflect the
fact that you're not looking at one player, but hundreds -- even
random chance will have *some* player doing much better over a long
stretch, if you have enough players.  (Think monkeys and typewriters.)

If you're looking at one player, .050 for 6000 AB is a significant 
diff. at the .05 level; but at the .001 level, I'm not so sure, 
and you need to go way out there to counteract the effect of multiple
experiments, as it were.

Roger

Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
From: thf2@ellis.uchicago.edu (Ted Frank)
Subject: Atlanta Opening Day Starter
Reply-To: thf2@midway.uchicago.edu
Organization: University of Chicago Computing Organizations
Date: Wed, 16 Dec 1992 17:52:45 GMT

In article <1992Dec16.170000.11170@athena.cs.uga.edu> shimkus@athena.cs.uga.edu (Doc) writes:
>In article <texdude.724523154@cs1.bradley.edu> texdude@cs1.bradley.edu (Philip Allen) writes:
>>Just out of curiosity, who will be pitching in the opening game?  
>
>Actually, I would be willing to put good money on Glavine starting game one.

In case it affects anyone's analysis, the Braves open against the Cubs
next season (gotta love 7-team divisions).  Don't know where.

Ryne Sandberg has been blasting Maddux to the press in the last few days.
-- 
ted frank                     | thf2@ellis.uchicago.edu 
standard disclaimers          | void where prohibited
the university of chicago law school, chicago, illinois 60637
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
From: cs902060@ariel.yorku.ca (GEOFFREY E DIAS)
Subject: Re: same name (WAS Re: Maddux signs with Braves (Was Re: Juan Guzman/STATS))
Organization: York University, Toronto, Canada
Date: Tue, 15 Dec 1992 17:41:51 GMT

In article <1992Dec12.230224.28841@athena.mit.edu> cmk@athena.mit.edu (Charles M Kozierok) writes:
>In article <1gdq1iINNqn9@master.cs.rose-hulman.edu> rickert@NeXTwork.Rose-Hulman.Edu (John H. Rickert) writes:
>>In article <1992Dec10.191903.19818@athena.mit.edu> cmk@athena.mit.edu  
>>(Charles M Kozierok) writes:
>>> (good thing the expos traded gardner away, isn't it? can you imagine
>>> having mike gardiner and mark gardner on the same team?
>>> it was confusing enough when they were in different leagues :^)
>>
>>Similar things have happened before.
>>A few years ago the Tigers had Billy Benae and Billy Bean
>>and the 1962 Mets had Bob Miller and Bob Miller.
>>
>>I also saw a AA game a few years ago in which 
>>Chuck Howard faced Chuck Howard (I still don't know 
>>if it's ever happened in the majors - Anyone got some 
>>1981 box scores so that we can check out the Mike Marshalls?)
>
>no, though i do remember the battery of Steve Trout and Steve Lake.
>i always did like that one.
>

	I think a few years back there was a pitcher named Thomas Gorman,
and at the same time there existed slugger Gorman Thomas. I don't think
they ever faced each other though.
From: psg+@pitt.edu (Paul S Galvanek)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
Subject: Re: A little information
Date: 13 Dec 92 15:02:03 GMT
Organization: University of Pittsburgh

In article <1992Dec13.052611.16984@Princeton.EDU> niepornt@phoenix.Princeton.EDU (David Marc Nieporent) writes:
>
>Um, I almost hate to bring this up, but do you think there could be a
>*reason* Bonds and Bonilla weren't the most popular while Van Slyke and
>Bell are?   Notice something about Bonds and Bonilla that's different
>about Van Slyke and Bell?  How do you *know* it isn't white/black?

The difference is something that someone not living in Pittsburgh probably
would not be aware of.  Barry Bonds, while being a great ballplayer, has 
spent the better part of his career here popping of in front of cameras
and mics.  Only a few of his antics have made national news, remember
the shouting matching with Leyland (in a past spring training) over who
would be allowed to take his picture?  That type of behavior was not the 
exception with Bonds, it was the rule.  While Bell and VanSlyke (as well 
as EVERY other Pirates) worked extensively to promote the team and get 
involve in the community, Bonds refused to participate in any events and
often bounced between - I really want to stay in Pittsburgh - and - I can't
wait to get out of this city.  I can tell you for a fact that when my wife
would attend functions, as part of her job, such as the Pittsburgh Chamber
of Commerce lunchs, while every other Pirate was there to meet and greet
and sign autographs, Barry Bonds refused to even attend.  He always was
a spoiled rich kid from southern California who thought himself to good
to for a blue collar town like Pittsburgh.  That's why he was so disliked  

This weekend one of the local sports commentators responded to Sauer's 
lack of remorse over Bonds leaving.  He essentially said that most people
will never know the extent of damage control that Sauer was constantly 
engaged in, with regards to Bonds, and that Sauer owes every sports writer
in Pittsburgh favors for the stories and quotes they didn't write about
concerning Bonds' behavior.   

PSG
?
-- 
America must've gone through quite a change the last month and a half.  Since
Clinton promised a cabinet that "would look more like America," it must be that
we've all become far left academicians or career politicians.  The ivory tower
is rebuilt, communism lives and it's advocates are working for Bill Clinton! 
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
From: kbanaian@bernard.pitzer.claremont.edu (King Banaian)
Subject: Re: Baseball finances query
Organization: Pitzer College
Date: Thu, 17 Dec 1992 21:02:56 GMT

In article <1992Dec17.152407.1@uwovax.uwo.ca> jpalmer@uwovax.uwo.ca (The Econoclast) writes:
>In article  kbanaian@bernard.pitzer.claremont.edu (King Banaian) writes:>
>> Thought I'd bring out the numbers here.  These data were printed in the 7/2/
>> 92 issue of _Financial World_.  They are for the 1991 season.
>> 	Gate	Media	Stad.	Total	Player	Oper.	Oper.
>> Team	Rec.	Rev.	Rev.	Rev.	Costs	Exp.	Inc.

{Other numbers deleted -- you all read them already!}
>> Atl	15.4	18.9	 3.8	40.3	20.4	40.8	-0.5
>                ^^^^
>
>> Min	18.2	20.5	 3.2	44.1	24.1	48.2	-4.1
>> Sea	15.5	22.0	 5.0	44.7	17.4	41.8	 2.9
>> Cle	 9.5	23.7	 6.6	42.0	19.5	46.8	-4.8
>> Mil	14.2	19.4 	 3.0	38.8	26.4	50.2   -11.4
>> Mtl	10.7	23.5	 3.0	39.4	21.8	43.6	-4.2
>
>	I see that the 1991 Braves reported lower media revenues than
>any other team, including the pathetic small market teams of
>Milwaukee, Minnesota, and Seattle. I wonder if Ted Turner is hiding
>just a few dollars of the Braves profits in his TBS numbers. This
>number suggests that TBS is paying only about 3.4m for the right to
>broadcast all those games. 
>
Absolutely right, John!  Notice that he takes enough over from TBS to still 
show a loss on the Braves.  He then has TBS pay MLB $12 million (Fay made 
him pony that up, BTW) and for about $17 million (adding on production 
costs) he has about 450 hours of sports programming -- an absolute bargain.

>	And Seattle reported a profit for 1991?

Yeah, and did you notice their media revs. are higher than Atlanta's?  
Notice they did that on a very small payroll, which helped hold operating 
costs down below everybody except Houston (helps to own the park!) and, 
believe it or not, Atlanta.  What killed Smulyan was the interest he was 
paying on the loan to buy the team, and a decline in his other business
(commercial real estate, of course).  I recall that he was *forced* to sell 
the M's as a condition on a non-baseball loan.
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
From: ncovey@bronze.ucs.indiana.edu (neil covey)
Subject: Re: Brave staff greatest in recent history?
Organization: Indiana University
Date: Fri, 11 Dec 1992 19:53:45 GMT

On paper the Braves certainly have a very good staff.  But, even with
the impressive numbers all of these pitchers have put up, I think we
should wait til October to judge the actual efficacy of the staff.
Right now the Braves have an ideal fantasy league staff, but they've yet to
throw a pitch in 1993.  Strange things can happen.  It looks good for
them, but nothing is guaranteed.
From: nlu@Xenon.Stanford.EDU (Nelson Lu)
Subject: Re: Who are the best pitchers of our generation?
Organization: Computer Science Department, Stanford University.
Date: Sun, 20 Dec 1992 00:10:44 GMT

In article <BzI1J5.FC2@ecf.toronto.edu> hora@ecf.toronto.edu (HO ROBERT ANDREW) writes:
>
>I was just flipping through Bill James' Baseball Book 1991 and stumbled
>accross a comment he made about who the best pitchers of this generation
>are.  Specifically, under his comments for Dave Stieb, he says that
>Clemens, Dave Stewart, Dwight Gooden, and Frank Viola are/were the best of
>this generation, while Stieb and Jack Morris would rank just behind those
>guys.  I was just wondering whether anyone here agrees or disagrees with
>this evaluation.  Who were/are the best pitchers of our generation?  Two
>years later, does James' statement still hold, or was he wrong to begin with?
>Obviously Clemens rates as the best pitcher of his generation, but are
>there any others that you would rate ahead of those guys?  Does anyone else
>besides me wonder who will be remembered as the best of this generation
>twenty years from now?

I would have picked Nolan Ryan (partly for his longevity and partly for his
impossible-to-hit fastball); he's also got a career 3.16 ERA entering this
past season (cf. 3.70 for Stewart (and in Oakland too), and 3.72 for Viola).

Other possibilities that I see include:

Orel Hershiser (2.77 ERA, 4 great seasons)
Fernando Valenzuela (3.34 ERA)
Greg Maddux (not too early; he's already had as many good years as
	Stewart and Viola)
Dennis Martinez (mostly for longevity, but had some excellent seasons)
Bert Blyleven (longevity, 3.27 ERA)
Bret Saberhagen (3.21 ERA)
Jim Acker (just to see if you're reading)

I would rather have Hershiser, Valenzuela, Blyleven, or Saberhagen on the list
than Stewart, Viola, or Morris.

===============================================================================
GO CALIFORNIA ANGELS!
===============================================================================
Nelson Lu (claudius@leland.stanford.edu)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
From: wagnonb@ur.msstate.edu
Subject: Yankees' Record
Organization: Mississippi State University
Date: Tue, 15 Dec 1992 22:19:04 GMT

Can anyone tell me the New York Yankees' record for
1992 and how they finished in the division?  Many 
thanks.

Bill



Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
From: cmk@athena.mit.edu (Charles M Kozierok)
Subject: jays rotation - improvement in the second half of '92?
Organization: Massachusetts Institute of Technology
Date: Fri, 11 Dec 1992 23:56:20 GMT


i have been pretty harsh on the jays about their rotation.
while maintaining that i think gillick does deserve some credit for being
damn smart in the past, the rotation just has not seemed that great to me.

i have heard some people say that the jays' current starters improved
after the all-star break last year. i decided to look at the numbers,
and compare them with Jimmy Key's, the guy i personally thought they should
have resigned.

the over-all numbers look like this:

PITCHER            W  L  ERA    INN    H   ER   HR   BB   SO
morris            21  6 4.04  240.2  222  108   18   80  132
stott             12 11 4.50  174.0  175   87   20   63   98
stewart           12 10 3.66  199.1  175   81   25   79  130

key               13 13 3.53  216.2  205   85   24   59  117


even if you look at the overall numbers, key and stewart are pretty
similar. and based on these numbers, stottlemyre should be put out
to pasture, or at least middle relief.


now look at the second-half stats:

PITCHER            W  L  ERA    INN    H   ER   HR   BB   SO
morris            11  3 3.63  114.0  106   46    4   28   74
stott              7  5 3.35   94.0   80   35    8   23   51
stewart            5  5 3.27   88.0   81   32    7   29   57

key                7  7 4.39   96.1   94   47   13   31   64


a totally different story. even with key's great september run,
he had a very poor second half. morris gave up only 4 HR in the
second half compared to 14 in the first. stewart gave up 7 as
compared with 18. morris really didn't pitch that poorly
in the second half, though certainly not $5M worth.
and the SO/BB ratios look much better.

this may not mean anything, but i found it quite interesting.
if morris, stott and stewart can put up these numbers over a whole
season, the jays may not be in such bad shape after all, esp.
considering their offense is without peer in the AL east.

i still think that milwaukee, boston, and now probably
new york and maybe baltimore have comparable or better rotations.
but they probably aren't much better, and their offenses probably
aren't as good.

the jays still need one more arm though. i hope pat gets
someone good.

--
charles
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
From: dkeisen@leland.Stanford.EDU (Dave Eisen)
Subject: Re: All-Time Phillies
Organization: Sequoia Peripherals, Inc.
Date: Fri, 11 Dec 92 20:48:48 GMT

In article <1992Dec11.200425.29818@news.cs.brandeis.edu> st902415@pip.cc.brandeis.edu writes:
>Didn't want to waste space replying the whole article. But regarding the
>hole at second base

He's probably a reasonable choice. As is Cookie Rojas who played
an above average second base for a longer stretch than Trillo or
any of the players I mentioned in my original list.

Still a pretty weak position for an All-Time anything team.


-- 
Dave Eisen                               Sequoia Peripherals: (415) 967-5644
dkeisen@leland.Stanford.EDU              Home:                (415) 321-5154
       There's something in my library to offend everybody. 
          --- Washington Coalition Against Censorship
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
From: thf2@ellis.uchicago.edu (Ted Frank)
Subject: Re: All-Henderson Team;All-Jewish Team
Reply-To: thf2@midway.uchicago.edu
Organization: University of Chicago Computing Organizations
Date: Tue, 15 Dec 1992 03:55:37 GMT

In article <15DEC92.03193833@vax.clarku.edu> hhenderson@vax.clarku.edu writes:
>Presenting:
>
>*The Clan Henderson* 
>Motto: "Sola virtus nobilitat" (Hit 'em where they ain't)
>
>Our opponents in the All-Name League:  The Smith Brothers, The
>James Gang, The Jolly Millers, The Vodka Collins (well, maybe the
>League wouldn't approve of that name), The Fabulous Baker Boys...
>there must be more...?

The Frank franchise is sadly relegated to Fred Frank, a backup 
infielder for the 1898 Cleveland Spiders.  The team cut him after
that season, he put a curse on them, and the rest is history.

No Frankenthalers, either, as far as I can tell...

How about an all-Jewish team?

C: Moe Berg
1B: Hank Greenberg
2B: Rod Carew
SS:
3B:
OF: John Lowenstein
OF:
OF:
P: Sandy Koufax
P: Steve Stone
P: Ken Holtzmann

There have got to be others, that's just off the top of my head.

Okay, back to studying for exams...
-- 
ted frank                     | thf2@ellis.uchicago.edu 
standard disclaimers          | void where prohibited
the university of chicago law school, chicago, illinois 60637
From: rickert@NeXTwork.Rose-Hulman.Edu (John H. Rickert)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
Subject: Re: Stats Inc Major League Handbook
Date: 14 Dec 1992 18:49:37 GMT
Organization: Computer Science Department at Rose-Hulman
Reply-To: rickert@NeXTwork.Rose-Hulman.Edu (John H. Rickert)
NNTP-Posting-Host: g215a-1.nextwork.rose-hulman.edu

In article <1992Dec13.135338.1588@Princeton.EDU>  
niepornt@phoenix.Princeton.EDU (David Marc Nieporent) writes:
> As an aside, does anyone really believe that they'll be able to develop
> a pitcher projection system?  I don't.

I do. Though I think it'll take them a few years. 
I doubt that it'll be as good as the offensive projections,
but my limited studies of pitchers do show some trends.
They ought to be able to pick up on those a give general
guidelines for future performance.

john rickert
rickert@nextwork.rsoe-hulman.edu
Go Brewers!!...What do you mean "where?"
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
From: tedward@cs.cornell.edu (Edward [Ted] Fischer)
Subject: Re: Holy Mother of God! (was: Re: Lou Gorman is a moron)
Organization: Cornell Univ. CS Dept, Ithaca NY 14853
Date: Mon, 14 Dec 1992 16:28:34 GMT

In article <1992Dec14.145106.22341@samba.oit.unc.edu> jmk.admin@mhs.unc.edu (Jim Kirkman) writes:
>
>Interesting comment by Phil Rogers of the Dallas Morning News 
>in his Major-League Notebook. He puts the Melendez/Plantier
>trade as his best trade winner! Called Ozzie's deal the 
>best contract,player and Griffey Jr. best contract,team. First
>positive comment I've read about Melendez.

So Phil Rogers should be covering tiddlywinks rather than baseball...

Griffey's contract was good for the Mariners, but he's only a fourth
year player.  He wouldn't have gotten any more by going to
arbitration.  The signing reduced tensions, but is hardly a major
deal.  The Braves are clearly the biggest winner this winter, signing
Maddux far below his market value of $7 million/year.  Ozzie's deal
was sweet, but he has earned that kind of respect from the Cardinals.
The Carter, Stewart, and Dawson deals are the most ridiculous signings
this winter.  With the *possible* exception of Carter, none of the
signings involve loyalty, and they are all for a ridiculous amount of
money considering the quality, age, and health of the players
involved.

I'd say that Rogers is 0-3.  The Padres pulled a real coup, getting
Plantier for Melendez.  On the other hand, Melendez is a pretty good
player.  He should help solidfy the Red Sox pen.  And Dawson, while
not as valuable as Plantier, isn't *that* bad.  I mean, he *is* better
than Billy Hatcher...

Lou Gorman is obviously trying to win *now*.  In my opinion, this is
rather short-sighted of him.  I think the Sox would have done better
to spend one *short* year rebuilding, aiming to contend in 1994.  By
then, some of the young pitching will be ready, and Greg Blosser will
be able to help out.

I don't think the current team can contend without a lot of breaks.
They need quality (and healthy) years out of the starting OF/DH:
Greenwell, Burks, Dawson, and Calderon.  IF that happens, the pitching
may carry them to a title.  The infield of Vaughn, Naehring, Valentin,
and Cooper is young but solid.  (Okay, so it has a hole at second
base.)

But how many people expect the outfielders to produce a combined .750
OPS season?  Because that is what the Sox will need.

-Valentine
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball