HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: jmann@vineland.pubs.stratus.com (Jim Mann)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
Subject: Re: 10 Best Space Operas (Written / Film)
Date: 27 Jul 92 12:11:54 GMT
Reply-To: jmann@vineland.pubs.stratus.com

In article <1992Jul26.175045.22709@usenet.ins.cwru.edu>  
at674@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Pete Nofel) writes:
> 
> In the Re: space opera -- definition thread someone suggested a
> list of the 10 best. Here's an off-the-cuff contribution in no
> particular ranking:
> 
>    Written                        Film
> 
> The Mote in God's Eye          Star Wars
> Skylark of Space               The Return of the Jedi
> Footfall                       ST:TNG, the Borg episodes
> The Black Star Passes          ST:TNG, Yesterday's Enterprise
> Forever War
> The last 0.25 of Earth
>   (this doesn't really count)
> Invaders from the Infinite
> (and any other John W. Campbell
>  super-science epic)
> 

I don't know that I'd call The Forever War space opera (nor the two
Star Trek episodes for that matter).  But anyway, from you list
the only book that would make my list of best of type would be
The Mote in God's Eye.

My choice for best space opera (and by "best" here, I'm looking at
novels that are also good books, not just "fun but awful" stuff
like E. E. Smith) is Blish's Cities in Flight series.  The middle
two books in the series, in particular, are about the best space
opera I've ever read.

For movies, I'd pick the Star Wars film you left off your list: 
The Empire Strikes Back, which I like more than the other two
put together.


--
Jim Mann       jmann@vineland.pubs.stratus.com  Stratus Computer
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
From: lpj@col.hp.com (Laura Johnson)
Subject: Re: Errors in Covers (was Re: Hyperion covers)
Date: Fri, 24 Jul 1992 16:11:56 GMT
Organization: HP Colorado Springs Division

chuq@Apple.COM (Chuq Von Rospach) writes:
> 
> Wrong. What you have are DISTRIBUTORS and BUYERS in regions of the country
> that won't buy the books. A few, well=placed bigots that make sure the
> general populace never gets a chance to see it.
> 
> 
> -- 

Good God. This is appalling. I'd like to suggest that, as rec.arts.sf.*
posters discover such books, they prominently post the titles. (_Friday_
and _The_Cat_Who_Walked_Through_Walls_ have been mentioned so far, I
believe.)

Then I'd like to suggest that rec.arts.sf.* readers (and their friends,
coworkers, etc.) boycott these books. If you want to read them, get them 
from the library or borrow them from a friend; just don't pay money for 'em.

Ideally, of course, such a boycott is accompanied by letters to the
publisher, explaining "Why I Didn't Buy This Book" in short words and
simple sentences.

-Laura ("Not easily shocked") Johnson
-- 
lpj@hpctdls.col.hp.com
Opinions expressed are my own, but may be licensed for a nominal fee.

Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
From: betsyp@apollo.hp.com (Betsy Perry)
Subject: Re: Merlin Backwards (was Re: My view of the ESF stories ..)
Date: Fri, 31 Jul 1992 18:04:50 GMT
Organization: Hewlett-Packard Corporation, Chelmsford, MA

In article <1992Jul31.062031.21173@neptune.inf.ethz.ch> qvortrup@inf.ethz.ch (Michael Qvortrup) writes:
>In article <1992Jul30.214934.27426@kakwa.ucs.ualberta.ca> aaron@space.ualberta.ca writes:
>>...
>>Next was "Winter Solstice".  I don't know if there's precedent in Arthurian
>>mythos for Merlin's living backwards.  
>
>I am fairly sure that there is a strong precedent for Merlin living
>backwards, but I can't remember where I got it from. 

T.H. White, *The Once and Future King*.

-- 
Betsy Hanes Perry   (note P in userid)     betsyp@apollo.hp.com
Hewlett-Packard Company
"It seems to us that the readers who want fiction to be like life are
considerably outnumbered by those who would like life to be like fiction."
From: goldfarb@ocf.berkeley.edu (David Goldfarb)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
Subject: Re: Fantasy winning Hugos
Date: 23 Jul 92 06:10:24 GMT
Reply-To: goldfarb@ocf.berkeley.edu (David Goldfarb)
Organization: The Sinister Icy Black Hand of Death Club
NNTP-Posting-Host: whirlwind.berkeley.edu
Originator: goldfarb@whirlwind.berkeley.edu

In article <711701461.F00002@tdkt.kksys.com> ddb@tdkt.kksys.com (David Dyer-Bennet) writes:
)McCaffrey's "Weyr Search" won [the Hugo] as a
)novella (tie) in 1968, and the SF underpinnings of that universe
)hadn't been revealed yet back then.
	
	Well, yes and no. We didn't know all the details about the
genetic engineering and whatnot that have been revealed at this point,
true. But that prologue in _Dragonflight_ -- the one that begins,
"When is a legend legend? When is a myth myth?" -- was part of 
"Weyr Search" and does mention that the story takes place on a planet
in another star system rather than an invented fantasy world.

-- 
   David Goldfarb          |"I'm going to die if you touch me one more time.
goldfarb@ocf.berkeley.edu  |Well, I guess that I'm going to die no matter what."
goldfarb@UCBOCF.BITNET     |          -- They Might Be Giants
From: u9161910@cs.uow.edu.au (Gareth William Omeara)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
Subject: Dick bio
Date: 29 Jul 92 02:33:08 GMT
Organization: Dept of Computer Science, Wollongong University, Australia

Can anybody recommend a good biography of Philip K. Dick.I read in the
afterword to my copy of Clans of the Alphane Moon that he believed
in later years there was a cosmic force centred on his apartment
guiding his career and I would like to know more about the life of
this obviously totally fucked up guy who wrote such great novels.





************************************************************************
*                 u9161910@wraith.cs.uow.edu.au                        *
*                                                                      *
*              "FUCK,FUCK,FUCK..." - Me during exams                   *
************************************************************************
From: IRH@utrc.utc.COM
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
Subject: Re: Werewolf Science Fiction
Date: 23 Jul 92 11:57:00 GMT

From:    Irene R. Harrison ( IRH )               Postmark: 23-Jul-1992 07:58am
Dept:    Computer Applications                   Tel No:   8-446-7415

TO:  Remote Internet User                 ( _in%sf-lovers-written@Rutgers.Edu )


Subject: RE: Werewolf Science Fiction


I originally posted a request for the correct title and author for a book
my friend read in the 60's with the title SONS OF THE WOLF by Lupin, Lupis,
or Lup... I had determined that SONS OF THE WOLF by Barbara Michaels was
not Sci Fi (a gothic actually).  I also couldn't find any author who's name
started with Lup...

First I want to publically thank the people who responded to my quest.  I'm
a little surprised that there weren't more responders but then again I
requested that replies be E-mail and that is a problem for some people.  I
hope that it doesn't reflect that werewolves are 'out-of-fashion'.

Sam Paik suggested that I "Try Lupoff".  I now have. My copy of SCIENCE
FICTION & FANTASY AUTHORS, by Currey, has him listed, but no wolves.

Jerome Buhman, ("Sometimes it pays to be in Information and Library
studies!") sent me several references the first of which set of the
proximity alarm.

>the book you are referring to is probably "Sons of the Wolf" by Adam
>Lukens.The citation I have says it was published by Avalon Press in 1961.
>BTW, I also have "Son of the Wolf" by Jack London, and "Son of the White
>Wolf" by Robert Howard.

Thank you all for reading and responding, when possible. This is the second
time I have conducted an all out search for a book.  The first time was
looking for an obscure book, now reprinted, by Andre Norton. Back then a
network among club members helped me discover that the Library of Congress
does inter-library loans.

Irene Harrison
IRH%UTRC@UTRCGW.UTC.COM
From: deb@loni.ucla.edu (Debjoti Sensharma)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
Subject: Re: Lovecraft
Date: 21 Jul 92 23:47:19 GMT
Organization: UCLA Laboratory of Neuroimaging


> They are probably the standards against which most modern horror is 
>measured, and the better horror writers of today generally acknowledge a
>debt to one or both of them. There are blatant Lovecraftian elements in
>some of Stephen King's earlier works, for example.
>------------------------------------------------------------------

Actually a recent King novel, Needful Things, has quite a few references 
to Yog-Sothoth (sp?)...




Debjoti Sensharma
UCLA Laboratory of Neuroimaging
[************YOU WILL BE ASSIMILATED****************]
[*************RESISTANCE IS FUTILE******************]
From: jdnicoll@watyew.uwaterloo.ca (James Davis Nicoll)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
Subject: Re: _Jaran_ by Kate Elliott
Date: 23 Jul 92 14:37:43 GMT
Organization: University of Waterloo

In article <02Ct02Yf1bzg01@JUTS.ccc.amdahl.com> branwen@cerebus.ccc.amdahl.com (Karen Williams) writes:
>The book was written to be read by a primarily American audience, and
>Americans are the most free people on Earth. 

	Yeah, right. That's why you folks have five times as many people in
jail per capita than does Canada. Do the words 'War on Drugs' mean anything to
you?

	Is it perhaps possible that there are several nations whose degree
of freedom is similar, while not quite covering the same liberties? I could
be arrested for 'hate proaganda' in Canda, but I don't have to worry about
civil forfeiture, or being the target of profile arrest.

							James Nicoll
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
From: misch@rbhp90.rbg.informatik.th-darmstadt.de (Clemens Misch)
Subject: Re: Gibson's _agrippa_: Not A Hoax
Originator: misch@rbhp90.rbg.informatik.th-darmstadt.de
Date: Tue, 21 Jul 1992 14:17:40 GMT
Reply-To: misch@rbhp90.rbg.informatik.th-darmstadt.de
Organization: Rechnerbetriebsgruppe FB20; TH Darmstadt (Germany)


In article <711701461.F00004@tdkt.kksys.com>, Joel.Rosenberg@f341.n282.z1.tdkt.kksys.com (Joel Rosenberg) writes:
> In a message to All <13 Jul 92 15:21> Clemens Misch writes in and says:
> 
[ deleted ]
>  >>
>  >> Somebody's going to hack it.  You _know_ somebody's going to hack it.
> 
>  CM> This could be the cause for the "book" in first place. He is after all
>  CM> the 'inventor' of cyberpunk (or ma I wrong? ).
> 
> 
> You're wrong; the term was invented by Bruce Bethke for the story of the 
> same name, which appeared in print before anybody applied it to Gibson and 
> his coterie -- a fact which irritates the cyberminorpunkies to no end.
> 
>  * Origin: The Terraboard, Minneapolis MN (1:282/341.0)

Thanks. In fact I did not know.
-- 
===============================================================================
Clemens Misch                                        Rechnerbetriebsgruppe FB20
                                                     Merckstrasse 25 
EMail: misch@rbhp90.rbg.informatik.th-darmstadt.de   W6100 Darmstadt (Germany)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
From: lga@sandman.stanford.edu(Laurent Amon)
Subject: Re: "Buffalo" is SF? /Hugo nominated/ SF?!
Reply-To: amon@cs.stanford.edu
Organization: DSO, Stanford University
Date: Thu, 30 Jul 92 08:39:44 GMT

In article <l7f56aINNhfp@exodus.Eng.Sun.COM> kcr@rushforth.Eng.Sun.COM (Kevin  
Rushforth) writes:
[...]
>  "In the Late Cretaceous", on the other hand, was fresh and
>  entertaining.  True, Ms. Willis did portray her characters with broad
>  strokes -- almost as caricatures -- but it worked (for me at least).
>  It was a funny look at office politics with a serious edge to it.  It
>  also explored how different people react to adversity or threats to the
>  status quo.  Even though the situations were patently absurd, I
>  sympathized with the characters.
>  

	From the few posts on this subject, it seems that nobody saw 
what I saw in that story. So is everybody missing the point or am I 
completely off track?

<Spoilers ahead>








(and can somebody tell me how to insert a ^L with Newsgrazer?)

The whole point of this story is the parallel between the title and the 
text. The characters are not almost caricatures, they *are* caricatures.
And if they were not, the story would be very depressing indeed. It seems 
to me that the major point of 'Late Cretaceous' is the parallel between
what happens in the story, and what the archeology professor teaches: That 
the dinosaurs became extincts because they could not adapt to a changing
environment. And the story is about academics, a whole society set in their 
ways and unable to change. They are not unwilling, they perfectly see the 
problem, but they are incapable of mustering the will to do anything else 
than being borne away, from one day to the next, on the wave of the
present. 

I apologize if I'm only pointing the obvious, and now retire to a good (but
short) night's rest, to be reborn tomorrow on the crest of the future.

Lga.
---
                                       |"I don't know what it's called, but
Laurent Amon                           | we're doing one about going to see 
       e-mail: amon@cs.stanford.edu    | a wizard. Something about following
           lga@sandman.stanford.edu    | a yellow sick toad. (Moving Pictures)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
Subject: Re: Science Fiction Book Club
From: ozymandias@desire.wright.edu
Date: 21 Jul 92 18:15:55 EST
Organization: Wright State University 

In article <qrdmjhn.xtifr@netcom.com>, xtifr@netcom.com (Chris Waters) writes:
> In <1992Jul19.200915.1@vax1.umkc.edu> nvaught@vax1.umkc.edu writes:
> 
>>> In article <142e8pINNlsp@network.ucsd.edu> earharta@sdsc.edu writes:
>>>>  Bad Points - 1) I HATE that stupid 'check this and send it in by
>>>>                  such-and-such a date or get some books.'  I got a
>>>>                  lot of books from them because I was soooooo lazy
>>>>                  about sending in that card (like the music clubs 
> 
>>If I got a book I didn't order, I would send it back unopened, with return to
>>sender on it.
> 
> I've sent them back *opened* (and resealed) many times, and always
> gotten a refund with no questions asked.  I often forget whether I have
> any orders outstanding, and besides, I'm willing to glance at an
> unordered book to see if I might want to keep it.  I've been very happy
> with the SFBC.
> -- 
> Chris Waters    | the insane don't | NOBODY for President!
> xtifr@netcom.COM| need disclaimers | Because Nobody's perfect!!

After sending back 3 shipments inside 5 months I (and everyone I've told about
this) got put on a "special" plan where they just send you the notices and you
only have to send in the card if you WANT the shipment to be sent. :)

Terry Chlebek
ozymandias@desire.wright.edu
From: matt@physics2.berkeley.edu (Matt Austern)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
Subject: Re: New Book -- Cherryh: Chanur's Legacy
Date: 29 Jul 92 15:39:56
Organization: Lawrence Berkeley Laboratory (Theoretical Physics Group)
Reply-To: matt@physics.berkeley.edu
NNTP-Posting-Host: physics2.berkeley.edu
In-reply-to: quasar@ctt.bellcore.com's message of 29 Jul 92 10:37:05

In article <QUASAR.92Jul29103705@samurai-cat.ctt.bellcore.com> quasar@ctt.bellcore.com (Laurence R. Brothers) writes:

> I wonder though, if anyone finds Cherryh's attribution of a sort of
> Pacific Rim pidgin dialect to the Mahendo'sat offensive? Perhaps for
> anonymous lower class Mahendo'sat it's OK, but it's hard to believe
> that educated members of a powerful starfaring culture would all talk
> like some Hollywood image of a Hong Kong street vendor. Of course, it
> makes it easy to tell who's talking when you see the pidgin in print
> in the middle of a bunch of dialogue.

This language was very deliberate, and Cherryh did it to make a point:
the Mahendo'sat think so differently from the Hani that communication
is difficult, and it is impossible for either species to speak
fluently in the language of the other, or to understand the other's
language.  

I thought that the use of language was nicely done: interspecies
communication in these books is never straightforward, but there are
gradations.  Communication with the Kif is reasonably clear; with
humans and Mahendo'sat, a bit more confused; with T'ca, it requires
the use of a computer to guess at the meaning(s); and with Knnn, it is
completely impossible.

Whether or not you think that Cherryh succeeded in what she set out to
do, you should recognize what she was attempting.
--
Matthew Austern              I dreamt I was being followed by a roving band of
(510) 644-2618               of young Republicans, all wearing the same suit,
matt@physics.berkeley.edu    taunting me and shouting, "Politically correct
austern@theorm.lbl.gov       multiculturist scum!"... They were going to make
austern@lbl.bitnet	     me kiss Jesse Helms's picture when I woke up.
From: jc@crosfield.co.uk (jerry cullingford)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
Subject: Re: The Moat around God's Eye
Date: 27 Jul 92 13:08:24 GMT
Organization: Crosfield Electronics, Hemel Hempstead, United Kingdom.

In article <1992Jul24.164152.10280@wpi.WPI.EDU> jsinger@ascoli.WPI.EDU (Joel Singer) writes:
"The Oort cloud may not be habitable, but say one master decides to send his
"entire "family," including himself, on a long round-trip cometary orbit 
"through the Oort cloud.  (They have the suspended-animation techniques from
"the original light-sail probe.)  The master times his ship to come back in the
"middle of the Moties' most savage period of breakdown, whereupon with his own
"loyal Warriors he takes over the planet.  His last step is to impose the birth
"control hormonal shots for all other Masters except himself and direct, loyal
"progeny.  He's got the entire planet under his thumb, with control of the
"Warriors, mediators, and all masters.  Bingo.  Cycles broken.
"
"Oh, yeah, there might be some practical problems along the way, but in theory
"this ought to work.  Any suggestions as to why it hasn't happened?

Yes... Either his descendants multiply and start the Cycles again, or
one or more young Masters escape before the birth shots and rebel, or
if they stick to a single heir, sooner or later the heir dies before breeding
and the Cycles start again.

Always assuming the other masters let him get away with it in the first place.
A fleet big enough to rule the world is too big to send off without being
noticed, and someone in suspended animation is _very_ vulnerable..
-- 
+-----------------------------------------------------------------+     |
| Jerry Cullingford  #include <std.disclaimer>     +44 442 230000 |   ,-|--
| jc@crosfield.co.uk (was jc@cel.co.uk) or jc@cel.uucp      x3868 |   \_|__
+-----------------------------------------------------------------+ \___/
From: steinly@topaz.ucsc.edu (Steinn Sigurdsson)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
Subject: Re: Science Fiction Book Club
Date: 22 Jul 92 00:57:12 GMT
Organization: Lick Observatory/UCO
NNTP-Posting-Host: topaz.ucsc.edu
In-reply-to: bt16+@andrew.cmu.edu's message of 21 Jul 92 19:15:15 GMT

In article <0eP693m00UhWI4b7RF@andrew.cmu.edu> bt16+@andrew.cmu.edu (Bill Thomas) writes:

   >Just to save a little volume around here, eveyone who's been asking/answering
   >about the SF Book Club should read  rec.arts.sf.misc message #2386 which
   >explains why the discussion is a waste of our time.

   Does anyone else really hate this kind of obnoxious message? As someone
   who's not lifeless enough to camp out on the net, reading every message
   for the past few years, I'd like to thank the people who have posted
   items concerning the Science Fiction Book Club. I've often wondered if
   it was any good, and now I have a clear idea of its good/bad points.

   Also, I don't know how you search for messages but I use MacMail on a
   Macintosh. Having "message #2386" as a reference is pretty useless. Why
   don't you not waste our time and post a copy of the message?

What is really amusing is that the message # quoted is a local
number, and will not correspond to anyone else's message-id.
The generic message id's - that some newsreaders can search for
are the "<0eP6........edu>" bits. For comparison, the message
I'm responding to is something like #10283 on the local system,
and somehow I don't think anyone is now referring to message #2386
 - unless they have more disk space than is good for them...

|  Steinn Sigurdsson	|I saw two shooting stars last night		|
|  Lick Observatory	|I wished on them but they were only satellites	|
|steinly@helios.ucsc.edu|Is it wrong to wish on space hardware?		|
| "standard disclaimer"	|I wish, I wish, I wish you'd care - B.B. 1983	|
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
From: hillyard@msc.cornell.edu
Subject: Re: Brain size (was Re: the "cause" of homosexuality)
Originator: hillyard@tiger.msc.cornell.edu
Reply-To: hillyard@msc.cornell.edu
Organization: Cornell-Materials-Science-Center
Date: Thu, 23 Jul 1992 18:02:35 GMT

From article <BruMts.JwE@news.cso.uiuc.edu>, by levine@symcom.math.uiuc.edu (Lenore Levine):


> 
> There may very well be some statistical differences between the
> sexes, but I don't think you've chosen a very strong example...
[math]

Math is a very large area of study.  I think there are only a few areas
where man seem to have an advantage.

The one that springs to mind is 3d visualization.  Men seem to be naturally
better at such things as mentally rotating a 3d object.

Note that I'm certainly not an expert in this area.

SEH
From: swf@teradata.com (Stanley Friesen)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
Subject: Re: Restricted breeding (was Re: The Moat around God's Eye)
Date: 21 Jul 92 15:07:48 GMT
Reply-To: swf@tdat.teradata.com (Stanley Friesen)
Organization: NCR Teradata Database Business Unit

In article <1992Jul17.070458.2156@oracle.us.oracle.com> mfriedma@uucp (Michael Friedman) writes:
|
|I also strongly urge both of you to read a text on thiws subject - the
|best I know is Richard Dawkins, The Selfish Gene.  Once you do you
|will understand why the statement above is wrong.

No, it is *not* one of the best.  It is extremely one-sided, and
very preachy.  I prefer less volatile presentations of population
biology.

|Just for starters, mind telling me who it is who is thinking "Hmm.
|Better Make female rabbits reabsorb embryos in crowded conditions so
|they don't boom and bust."?  Is it the rabbits?  The genes?  God?
|Who?

Teleonomic behavior does not imply intentionality.
Rabbits resorb embryos because that increases their chances of successfully
raising young, later.  This is the reason for the behavior, whether there
is intentionality on the part of the rabbits or not.
-- 
sarima@teradata.com			(formerly tdatirv!sarima)
  or
Stanley.Friesen@ElSegundoCA.ncr.com
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
From: jalea@iat.holonet.net (Jackie McClure)
Subject: Re: Paratwa Saga
Organization: HoloNet (BBS: 510-704-1058)
Date: Sat, 25 Jul 1992 19:09:05 GMT

tedk@jpl.NoSubdomain.NoDomain (Ted Ko) writes:
: Does anyone know the story on Christopher Hinz's Paratwa Saga?  I read the 
: first book Liege_Killer 5 or 6 years back and since then was checking for a
: sequel every time I entered a book store.  I only recently discovered that there
: was a sequel and when I ordered the book from Encore books, I find out that
: the one I ordered was the THIRD book.  The second one, Ash_Ock isn't even
: in print anymore I think.  For such an awesome beginning the series died
: incredibly fast...any clue why?
: 
: <--The-Dark-Elf-<<<
   
I know what you mean. It took me about a year of searching through dusty
used books stores before I found the last two books in the series. 
It was disappointing. After such a great beginning, the storyline sort of
rolled over and died at the end. I don't have a clue why either. Just
thought I'd commiserate.

Jackie McClure        
JALEA@HOLONET.NET     
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written