HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: jhb@calmasd.prime.com (Jim Bishop)
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: Re: An additional christmas wish
Date: 15 Dec 92 00:49:50 GMT
Organization: -

In article <1992Dec11.020828.29142@math.ucla.edu>, 
ramirez@julia.math.ucla.edu (Alice Ramirez) writes:
> 
>[Part of post deleted] 
> 
> In case anyone out in Netland doesn't understand my hatred of bermuda grass,
> let me explain.  Once planted, it is almost impossible to get rid of.  It
> spreads by stolons.  If you, say, rototill, 10 stolons will become 100000000
> stolons, each capable of making baby bermuda grass clumps.  I have seen 
> bermuda grass growing up thru hay bales.  I have seen bermuda grass piercing
> thru black plastic.  It is an amazing survivor.  It is a pain in the a**!!
> It is hateful.  It is grass to be planted by people who are not gardeners,
> who just want to cover their front yards with something that they can waste
> gasoline by cutting down once a week on their precious Saturdays.
> 
> If you are thinking about planting bermuda grass, THINK AGAIN!!
> I don't know you, but I consider myself your friend. DON'T PLANT BERMUDA
> GRASS!!!!!!!!!!!!!  

My entire backyard was Bermuda and Disney ice plant when I bought my
house 9 years ago.  I've removed almost three-forths of the Bermuda
and almost all the Disney.  I used to dig out the top 6 inches (or as
deep as I could get before I hit the caliche) and throw it in the
trash.  For a project I once had to rent 2 dumpsters once to have it
hauled off.  Also the trash collector won't take anything that weighs
over 50 lbs.  This takes only a sq ft of sod to equal 50 lbs.  At a
bag a week it took months to get even a little bit of sod hauled off. 
Also, I was throwing away what little top soil I had.

A couple of years ago I rigged up a screening system with 2 layers of
chicken wire (similar to a screen for sifting compost).  The whole
thing sits on top of wheelbarrow and I now shake apart all the sod I
did out and sift it through the screens.  I then sift the remaining
dirt 2 more times.  This pretty much gets out all of the Bermuda.  I
still have an occasional sprout that I have to dig out by hand.
Luckily I have a hybrid Bermuda that doesn't set seed.

You mentioned rototilling it.  I guess you now know never to do this. 

On the positive side, Palm Springs wouldn't be Palm Springs without
its Bermuda golf courses.  (Of course, I imagine we could argue about
whether P.S. should exist in the first place.)

Jim (Who after typing this in, is thinking twice about all the work it
will take to get rid of the rest of the bermuda.)
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
From: trhan@milton.u.washington.edu (Teri Rhan)
Subject: Re: Broccoflower seeds?
Organization: University of Washington, Seattle
Date: Mon, 14 Dec 1992 21:18:43 GMT

I grew these a few years ago and at that time they were being sold at typical
seed stores under the name of Romanesca which is what it's called in 
Italy where it has been available for a long time, at least according to the 
back of the seed package I had read.   

They grow exactly the same as cauliflower and broccoli, no surprises.

Good Luck
Teri

In article <Bz603J.7zC@hpfcmdd.fc.hp.com> linda@hpfcmdd.fc.hp.com (Linda Jackson) writes:
>I am looking for seeds for Broccoflower, a cross between broccoli and 
>cauliflower.  It is a real taste treat, and I would like to try my
>hand at growing it.  
>
>Do any of you know of a source for broccoflower seeds?  Are there any
>mail order sources? 
>
>Thank you for your help.
>
>				........Linda Jackson
>					Hewlett-Packard
>					Ft. Collins, Colorado
>
>					linda@hpfcmdd.fc.hp.com 


Newsgroups: rec.gardens
From: ramirez@julia.math.ucla.edu (Alice Ramirez)
Subject: ANother thing you might try for feeding bluejays
Organization: UCLA Mathematics Department
Date: Sat, 12 Dec 92 03:56:18 GMT

Another thing you might try to lure bluejays are unsalted peanuts in the shell.
At least the local scrub jays adore them.  They are close relatives of
blue jays.
From: ramirez@julia.math.ucla.edu (Alice Ramirez)
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: more on indoor christmas trees
Date: 12 Dec 92 21:32:42 GMT
Organization: UCLA Mathematics Department


Hi.  I am posting this for someone who is unable to post directly
to newsnet.  If you want to reply, please reply to the email address
below.  Maybe someone with more Unix saavy than me can answer his
question at the end.

From jae@ukc.ac.uk Mon Dec  7 12:20:00 1992
To: ramirez
Subject: Re: caring for indoor christmas trees
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Organization: Computing Lab, University of Kent at Canterbury, UK.
From: jae@ukc.ac.uk
Status: RO

WE have the problem at home (IN Hertfordshire, Southern England) of Christmas
trees being frozen before they have a chance to root!

However, we have two trees successfully growing, both of which were dug up
each Christmas and taken indoors around 22 December, and planted out again
after 12th Night. (6 January).  However, the trees eventually got too tall, so 
we just cut the tops off them......the next year it grew even taller!
The next Christmas, the ground was frozen solid, so we were unable to
dig up our tree, so we bought another one. (The first for 6-7 years).
Ever since, the weather has made it impossible to plant the tree outside
quickly enough after Christmas for it to have any chance.

There are one or two tips which I have picked up over the years:

1. Plant the tree as soon as possible after taking it outside; NEVER leave
it to freeze in its pot .

2. Leave the tree to soak in a bucket of water for several hours before
both bringing the tree inside, and before planting it out.

3. Buy the tree from a reputable nursery, and make sure that it is still
fresh when you buy it, with the roots still moist in a bag of damp earth.
The tree is more likely to re root later if the rrots are kept damp.

For the same reason, keep the tree waterd over Christmas, allow it some fresh air 
from time to time. 

I hope that this helps.

P.S. Who should I contact in order to be allowed to respond on to
the gardens newsgroup... the system won`T let me at the moment !
 
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
From: Bob Klebba <nicmad!klebba%astroatc.uucp@spool.cs.wisc.edu>
Subject: Re: tall grass prairie
Organization: Nicolet Instrument Corporation
X-Useragent: Nuntius v1.1
Date: Thu, 17 Dec 1992 00:12:31 GMT

In article <1992Dec14.132924.202@janus.arc.ab.ca> , thacker@rhea writes:
>I am toying with the idea of putting in a small patch of tall grass
>prairie in my yard.
>
>Last spring I started rows of Indian Grass (Sorghastrum nutans) and
>Big Bluestem grass (Andropogon gerardi) in my vegetable garden.  They
>only reached about 6 inches high by the end of the year, but I 
>understand they could be 6 feet high in several years.
>
>My problem is this.  I want to dig a bed for them and include a 
>number of prairie wildflowers (and I may cheat and add daffodils for
>spring colour), but I don't know the growth habits of the grasses.
>Do they form clumps or do they form a sod?  How quickly do they fill
>out?  If they grow as clumps I can introduce wildflower seeds between 
>the clumps, but if they form a sod quickly I would be better off to
>plant established perrenial wildflowers rather than seeds.  While the
>seed heads can reach six feet high or so, how tall is the actual dense
>leafy growth?  Presumably any wildflower that can grow above the leaf
>cover will have enough light to flower among the heads of the grasses.

Bob Klebba
Madison, Wisconsin, USDA zone 4
Inet: nicmad!klebba%astroatc.uucp@spool.cs.wisc.edu
"Feed the soil, not the plant"
From: klier@iscsvax.uni.edu
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: Re: Tree Stump Removal
Date: 16 Dec 92 19:25:40 -0600
Organization: University of Northern Iowa

In article <742@mtinews.mti.com>, sonia@adara.mti.com (Sonia Lansberg) writes:
> Does anyone know of a safe organic way to get rid of tree stumps?
> These could be stumps in planters or in the lawn.  I don't want
> to pay to have them ground up.

I've accelerated normal stump degradation by drilling a bunch of vertical
holes in the stump and pouring in a slurry of rotting wood and water.
Best stuff seems to be rotten wood from the same species as your stump.
Throw the rotten wood in the blender with some water, homogenize it a bit, 
then pour it into the holes in the stump.  Toss a tarp over the top to keep
the stump moist, and water once a month or so with some high nitrogen
fertilizer solution (a friend uses urine).

Around here, a maple stump will be fairly spongy and able to be easily
kicked apart in less than a year with that treatment.

Kay Klier  Biology Dept  UNI
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
From: dtaylor@stsci.edu
Subject: Crape Myrtle pruning:  HELP!
Organization: Space Telescope Science Institute
Distribution: na
Date: Tue, 15 Dec 1992 19:54:56 GMT


	This past May I planted a Crape Myrtle, "Tuscarora," in full sun 
  in my suburban Baltimore yard (zone 7).  It has grown quite a bit - now about
  four feet tall with three main trunks - and bloomed beautifully from late 
  July to September.  Now, I know that Crape Myrtles bloom on the current
  year's wood.  So here is the problem:  if I prune the tree, cutting off the
  twiggy new growth (which incidently has all the seed pods formed after 
  the blooms), the tree may be encouraged to bloom well next year.  But I want 
  the tree to grow taller, eventually to around seven feet.  How do I prune to
  get both results?  Or do I prune at all?  Any insights appreciated.


	Dave Taylor
	Space Telescope Science Institute
	Baltimore,  MD
	dtaylor@stsci.edu
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
From: bryant@neural.Kodak.COM (Steve Bryant)
Subject: Re: Habenero Pepper problem?
Organization: Eastman Kodak Co., Rochester, NY
Date: Mon, 14 Dec 92 13:19:30 GMT


>It's presently right next to a southern exposure window (triple glazed low e)
>in the warmest part of my house.  Many of the older leaves are turning brown
>gradually from the very tip working back towards the stem. When they get
>about half way, the leaf falls off (the brown part is all dried out).  Does
>this sound like a disease or is it a natural process?  There is a lot of new
>growth that doesn't have any problems.  I can't see any bugs on the plant.

I brought a bell pepper plant in for the winter last year and it did the 
same thing. It lost a lot of the leaves that it had while it was outside
but grew new ones.  My plant did fine, it survived all winter producing
small peppers and in the early summer I put it back outside and I had
full size peppers a month before any of the other new pepper plants.

I think that what you are seeing is a natural process. The leaves that 
the plant had produced while outside expected a heavy dose of sunshine
and the lower light levels inside stimulated the plant to produce new 
more enegy efficient leaves and at the same time lose the less efficient
leaves.
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
From: ceci@lysator.liu.se (Cecilia Henningsson)
Subject: Bird food (Was: ... feeding bluejays)
Organization: Lysator Academic Computer Society, Linkoping University, Sweden
Date: Sat, 12 Dec 1992 18:13:15 GMT

ramirez@julia.math.ucla.edu (Alice Ramirez) writes:

>Another thing you might try to lure bluejays are unsalted peanuts in
>the shell. At least the local scrub jays adore them.  They are close
>relatives of blue jays.

Here they sell "net stockings" with peanuts sans shell for bird food.
The tits love peanut stockings. Strangely enough, the sparrows don't
seem to care for peanuts, or maybe they can't get the hang of the
stocking. :)

If you buy peanuts (and other nuts) clearly labelled as
other-than-human food, make sure that the nuts have been tested for
aflatoxin (sp?), which is a poison for small birds. It develops in
poorly stored nuts.

--Ceci
--
=====ceci@lysator.liu.se===========================================
"Convictions cause convicts." Robert Anton Wilson
"But don't let that become a conviction!" Ceci
===================================================================
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: hello
From: <DCG103@psuvm.psu.edu>
Date: Sun, 13 Dec 1992 22:55:45 EST
Organization: Penn State University

a
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
From: duffett@ug.cs.dal.ca (Thomas E. Duffett)
Subject: Re: Tree Stump Removal
Organization: Math, Stats & CS, Dalhousie University, Halifax, NS, Canada
Date: Thu, 17 Dec 1992 13:29:35 GMT

In article <742@mtinews.mti.com> sonia@adara.mti.com (Sonia Lansberg) writes:
>Does anyone know of a safe organic way to get rid of tree stumps?
>These could be stumps in planters or in the lawn.  I don't want
>to pay to have them ground up.
>
>I came across a product that is sold in a can.  The problem is, after
>you use this stuff, you need to bore holes in the stump, fill it
>with fuel, and then ignite it!
>
>Any ideas?  Thanks in advance.
>
>Sonia Lansberg              sonia@lexcel.com

	Over the years I had to remove many tree stumps on my property.
I purchased some of the product you mentioned, but being my paranoid self. I
was always afraid that the roots grew all the way to my neighbours house. When
I throw the match on the stump, all my neighbours houses would burn to the 
ground.

	The best environmentally safe way I found was the slow and dirty way.
Dig around the stump, cut all the roots and either pry it out with a steel bar
or pull it out with a pulley system. As a side note I found the hard way that 
the easiest way to screw up the chain and bar of a chain saw is to try to cut 
roots. Roots absorb all kinds of minerals and are almost like cutting through
rock.
						Thomas
						 
or pull it out with a pul
-- 
E-MAIL: DUFFETT@UG.CS.DAL.CA	  	          Thomas E. Duffett    
PH: (902) 494-3777  FAX: (902) 494-6889	          Marine Technologist  
Disclaimer:MY OPINION IS MY OWN AND NOT           Earth Sc., Dalhousie Univ.
       	   WORTH THE SCREEN IT'S WRITTEN ON !!    HFX.,N.S.,CA.,B3H 3J5    
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
From: london@sunSITE.unc.edu (Larry London)
Subject: Re: Small vines
Organization: University of North Carolina, Chapel Hill
Date: Sun, 13 Dec 1992 18:11:20 GMT

In article <724257217.0@altern8.mi> Val.Gillman@altern8.mi.org 
(Val Gillman) writes:
>Does anyone know of a small vine -3 to 5 ft- that doesn't need
>much sun? I'd like to train it over my garden gate which gets an
>hour sun in the morning and an hour at night.  Annual or
>perennial.  Ivy was dissapointing last year.  Wouldn't grow.
>Zone 5. Thanks

Woodbine, a wild red honeysuckle or Carolina Jasmine 
(very fragrant yellow flowers) might survive in Zone 5
in protected areas. Woodbine is more or less within the 
size range you specified though C.J., without maintenance
pruning can get pretty bulky.
Maybe there are small-growing varieties of Trumpet Creeper
(campsis radicans is the wild version and gets well out of 
hand in a hurry, but is quite pretty all summer with profuse 
red-orange blooms and later, attractive pale green seed pods)
Don't know if it's hardy in Zone 5 but Gardenia Radicans
(Trailing Gardenia - small, very fragrant blooms), with
proper pruning and fertilizing could possibly be trained over 
a trellis; I think I have seen it espaliered on a masonry wall.

My chice would be Woodbine; there are non-wild cultivars
available by mail order. See White Flower Farm and Wayside Gardens 
catalogues. Gardenia radicans and carolina jasmine are available
in my area from:
Apex Nurseries
Apex, North Carolina
1-919-362-8315
A day-long field trip to this well-run, fascinating nursery
would be time well spent. (note to R.T.P. rec.gardeners).


Newsgroups: rec.gardens
From: hlm@phx.mcd.mot.com (Heather Magill)
Subject: composting old citrus fruit?
Organization: Motorola Computer Group, Tempe, Az.
Distribution: usa
Date: Fri, 18 Dec 1992 17:16:58 GMT


Hi all,
I have a large amount of grapefruit that has been left on the tress
for couple of seasons, they look like pink volleyballs and kids
love to play with them  :-) but I would really like to use them up 
(not put them in the garbage) so the ants don't have a field day 
this the spring.

I would like to put them through a shredder and till them into my garden.  
Does this sound like a okay thing to do?   I live in AZ (obviously) 
where we have a very alkaline soil and I am wondering if perhaps 
citric acid is not a very good thing to add.  

What about composting the shredded grapefruit (although I seem to get
a decomposing pile and not a composting pile :-)?  Any other 
suggestions on what to do with this grapefruit ( I don't think they
are edible ).

Happy Holidays and as always, thanks for the help in advance.

Heather Magill.

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From: klier@iscsvax.uni.edu
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: Re: Prairie Info Update
Date: 15 Dec 92 16:36:24 -0600
Organization: University of Northern Iowa

In article <1gkgi6INN278@usenet.INS.CWRU.Edu>, br105@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Jeffrey A. Del Col) writes:
> 
> Two booklets that might be very helpful to people interested in prairie
> plants are PRAIRIE PRIMER by Stan Nichols and Lynn Entine and tthe
> PRAIRIE PROPAGATION HANDBBOOK by Harold Rock.  Nichols and Entine's book
> is or was available from the Wisconsin Extension Service Agricultural
> Bulletin Building, 1535 Observatory Drive, Madison, WI 53706.  The PPH is
> or was available from the Boerner Botanical Gardens Wehr Nature Center
> 5879 S.92nd St., Hales Corners, WI 53130.

Yes, and also check Proceedings of the North American Prairie Conference,
a biennial meeting of people who are interested in all facets of prairie
research, including restoration.

Most prairie restoration work involves removing existing non-native
vegetation (if you can, it's a great idea to leave the area fallow
for a year or so, cultivating to kill germinating weed seedlings.  That
way, you've reduced the seed bank in the soil at least a bit...

Most people then plant a mixture of prairie grasses and forbs (non-grasses),
and let them grow for a couple of years before the first burn or mowing.
The difficult parts of these first few years tend to be:
  a) weeds (esp. Ky bluegrass, smooth brome, etc.) shade out the
    seedlings -- so you may need to do a fair amount of hand 
    weeding at first

  b) the plot looks so "weedy" the first few years, somebody nukes
    it back to bluegrass or bromegrass...

  c) the grass seedlings overtake and shade out the forbs.

Some year, I'm going to try to reestablish a prairie patch by
seeding the forbs into bare soil and letting them grow for a 
couple of years, then overplanting with prairie grasses.  I *hope*
this will give a greater representation of forbs: most native
prairies that haven't been beaten to death have LOTS more forbs
than grasses.  Most restorations have more grasses than forbs.

Kay Klier  Biology Dept  UNI
From: KJB6@psuvm.psu.edu
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: TYPE OF SOIL
Date: 17 Dec 92 20:11:13 GMT
Organization: Penn State University

This might sound stupid BUT....

When my gardent gets wet either rain or sprinkler, the soil will turn into
mud. I would rather have wet dirt than mud. The mud is much thicker.

Now that it is winter here in the north, is there something I sould put in
the soil now or in the spring to help it ?


Ken Bauer
Systems Analyst      kjb6@psuvm.psu.edu
PENN. STATE - ERIE, The Behrend College
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
From: dr@ducvax.auburn.edu
Subject: Re: Gardening gifts (was weather swap)
Organization: Auburn University, AL
Distribution: usa
Date: Wed, 16 Dec 1992 06:20:37 GMT

In article <1992Dec7.144622.9224@iscsvax.uni.edu>, klier@iscsvax.uni.edu writes:
> ramirez@julia.math.ucla.edu (Alice Ramirez) writes:
>> Dear Kay,
>> 
>> I will gladly trade my disgustingly happi-face winter weather for
>> your snowy-icy winter weather + a good greenhouse.  Fair deal?
> 
> Toss in guaranteed good quality air and it's a deal!   8-)
> 
> _____________
> 
> So, fellow gardeners, what _reasonable_ items are on your holiday wish
> list?  (We know Julia and Keith want greenhouses, Kay wants 40 or 50 
> acres, preferable A grade prairie, and Jeff wants every antique rose 
> ever cultivated...  ;-)  )
> 
> Any good gadgets out there on your lists?  Fascinating plants you've
> asked for?   Fantastic new books?
> 

I'm confused... What's unreasonable about wanting greenhouses or acreage?

Sitting, baffled & perplexed... 

OK - realistically, a decent swing-blade, or some other reasonably quiet 
way to clear the former garden I've let slide... no, *serve* this year
as a small bird, snake and critter refuge, and demonstration plot of 
every field weed in the county.  A planning/log/journal kit that will 
*invite* me to keep notes on what the weather is, what's in bloom, and 
which critters are doing what.  Ideally it would live out in the garden, 
so I could also easily develop the habit of taking it on walking tours...

	D.R.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
David Roller  |    Bitnet = dr@auducvax            |  "Because we're all
Auburn Univ.  |  Internet = dr@ducvax.auburn.edu   |   in this together."
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
From: sweiger@sequent.com (Mark Sweiger)
Subject: Re: Seed starting trays?
Keywords: seeds sources tropical
Organization: Sequent Computer Systems Inc.
Date: Fri, 18 Dec 92 20:20:36 GMT

In article <1992Dec18.183834.18030@almserv.uucp> s5uagm@fnma.COM writes:
>	Now that my forced bulbs are getting ready to bloom,  I'm going to 
>use my indoor growing space to try growing some tropicals from seed.
>
>	I have one of those flimsy 1'x2' seed starting trays with an even more
>flimsy clear plastic cover.  I see Parks has similar trays.  Are these of the 
>same light plastic material?  Does anyone know of a source of a sturdier covered
>starting tray?
>
>	BTW I'm going to try "Bird of Paridise".  Anyone have any experience
>sprouting/raising them.

Sprouting was simply a matter of moist, warm soil for me.  The real
problem is that they take about 3 to 5 years to get large enough
to bloom.  I guess they are worth the effort, though; they have very
beautiful blooms.

--Mark
-- 
phone: (503)578-4329    fax: (503)578-5730   internet: sweiger@sequent.com
Newsgroups: rec.gardens