HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball

> I'm not happy seeing ANY team moving to Tampa.  Another domed ballpark is bad
> enough, but this particular one should never ever be the site of a major league

The stick should never have been the site of a little league game.
Imagine the Giants  not having to suffer from the infield wind blown
triples any longer.  I do not like domed stadia, but any place has got
to be betterthan the stick!

> 
> -- 
> Bill Coleman
> clmn@midway.uchicago.edu

l\
From: snichols@adobe.com (Sherri Nichols)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
Subject: Re: Total Baseball CD
Date: 18 Aug 92 18:20:24 GMT
Organization: Adobe Systems Incorporated

In article <55758@olivea.atc.olivetti.com> rsmith@strobe.ATC.Olivetti.Com (Russ Smith) writes:
>In article <1992Aug18.172745.969@usenet.ins.cwru.edu> sfh@po.CWRU.Edu (Steven F. Hubbard) writes:
>>
>***Total Baseball CD ad deleted ***
>>
>>   A follow up note to this is that you also get Tony LaRussa's "Ultimate
>>Baseball" for free (a $49 program) when you order _Total_Baseball_ on CD.
>>It's a hell of a deal if you've got CD ROM.
>>
>I hate to respond to something I originated, but it was brought to my
>attention via e-mail that this isn't quite the deal I thought it was.
>the last sentence on the ad reads as follows "due to an agreement with
>the publishers, this CD ROM offer is only available if you order a
>BSR CD ROM drive from DAK".
>
>So if you want the disk, you have to buy one of their drives too.
>
>Very sorry for the misleading information, I didn't read the entire ad.

However, you can get the Total Baseball CD ROM from Educorp for $59.95 (or
you could a month or so ago when we bought one).  Educorp's 800 number is
800-843-9497 (If you can't do 800, their regular number is 619-536-9999).

Sherri Nichols
snichols@adobe.com
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
Subject: Re: It ain't over yet
From: clmn@quads.uchicago.edu (Bill Coleman)
Date: Wed, 12 Aug 1992 15:32:48 GMT
Reply-To: clmn@midway.uchicago.edu
Distribution: usa
Organization: University of Chicago Department of Economics

In article <4656@blue.cis.pitt.edu.UUCP> psg+@pitt.edu (Paul S Galvanek) writes:

>This is all very interesting but it seems that for all the talk one important
>aspect is being ignore.  Even if local buyers were come forth wouldn't that
>create a real legal stink for MLB?  
>
>I mean I'm certainly no expert in contract law but didn't Lurie's public 
>announcement of an acceptance of an offer for the purchase of the team 
>constitute a valid contract?  I know the "best interest of baseball" clause
>carries alot of weight in internal baseball matters but now that the deal 
>has been struck with the city of Tampa to not carry through for no other reason
>than an offer from a local buyer n SF would seem to be an open and shut law
>suit for the city of Tampa.
>
>Has anything like this happened in the past?

Yes, it has.

Bill Veeck originally contracted to sell the Chicago White Sox to Edward
deBartolo of shopping center and SF 49er fame.  The commissioner of baseball,
Bowie "Ayotollah" Kuhn, vetoed the sale using his best interest powers on
the grounds that (1) deBartolo was not local ownership and (2) was involved
with horseracing.

As a result, the city of Chicago was saddled with Reinhorn.  Ugh.



-- 
Bill Coleman
clmn@midway.uchicago.edu
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
From: ron@osf.org (Ron Birnbaum)
Subject: Re: Bosox swept!
Organization: Open Software Foundation
Date: Mon, 17 Aug 1992 17:37:49 GMT

In article <1992Aug15.065039.17269@cs.cornell.edu>, tedward@cs.cornell.edu (Edward [Ted] Fischer) writes:
|> 
|> The Red Sox offense stinks! 

  True- but their defense has been perhaps worse!! Did you see a routine 
  fly ball drop between Hatcher and whoever was in left field Friday night?
  And did you see Vaughn play 1st base?? Even Valentin made an error - acutally,
  two - but they only gave him one. 

-Ron



 Eldred held them to three hits and one
|> walk in eight shutout innings.  Not that Greg Harris pitched badly
|> either.  He allowed seven hits (and at least one walk) in the first
|> four innings, but then proceeded to no-hit the Brewers for the rest of
|> the game.  With a bit of luck and good defense, he escaped with only
|> one run.  So his ERA drops below 2.50, but his record is 2-7.  You go
|> figure!
|> 
|> Cheers,
|> -Valentine
|> -- 
|> Ob. woof: Clemens is the best pitcher ever!	tedward@cs.cornell.edu
From: steveh@thor.isc-br.com (Steve Hendricks)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
Subject: Grumbling about Canseco
Summary: What's the story
Keywords: Canseco
Date: 13 Aug 92 00:51:43 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: ISC-Bunker Ramo, An Olivetti Company

I understand that several A's players and LaRussa(?) criticized Canseco
in the last day or so.  Other than passing references to the grumbling,
however, I've been unable to find out what was said.  So what's the
story?  
--
Steve Hendricks                        |  DOMAIN:  steveh@eagle.ISC-BR.COM   
   ISC-Bunker Ramo Corp.  ms LL2-2B    |  UUCP:    ...!uunet!isc-br!eagle!steveh
   E. 22425 Appleway / Box TAF-C8      |  Ma Bell: 509 927-7034
   Spokane, WA  99220-4008             |  FAX: 509 927-2499
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
From: hymowitz@whatever.cs.jhu.edu (Hymie!)
Subject: walt weiss goes 0-0-0-0-0-0-0
Reply-To: hymowitz@cs.jhu.edu (Hymie!)
Organization: Creative Sensualities dept, Jacquie's House of Underwear
Date: Fri, 14 Aug 1992 12:51:58 GMT

can someone explain why walt weiss had no plate appearances in last
night's a's game?  hius replacement had 3 abs, so i guess that means
that he avoided the one-plate-appearance rule.  did he die or something?

--hymie
hymowitz@cs.jhu.edu                                         hymie@jhuvms.bitnet
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
hymie!'s Sig Construction Kit            |(put ascii-art picture of yourself
(put your name here)                     | or bill the cat here)
(put your email.address(es) here.        |
 make sure it's invalid from most sites) |(bar line here indicates separation)
(put a very long quote here.  other people love reading very long quotes)
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: "russell tisseman" <russell.tisseman@canrem.com>
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
Subject: mailing list
Date: 18 Aug 92 20:33:19 EST
Reply-To: "russell tisseman" <russell.tisseman@canrem.com>
Distribution: rec
Organization: Canada Remote Systems

Hi guys, does anyone know if there is a Blue Jays mailing list. And 
how would I join.

                Thanks

               Russel
---
  1st 1.00 #279  1stReader.  Anything else is greasy kid-stuff.
--
Canada Remote Systems  - Toronto, Ontario/Detroit, MI
World's Largest PCBOARD System - 416-629-7000/629-7044
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
From: sjohnson@faulen.asd.sgi.com (Scott Johnson)
Subject: Re: The Astros' Journey
Organization:  Silicon Graphics, Inc.  Mountain View, CA
Date: Fri, 21 Aug 1992 00:05:26 GMT

Dennis Shiao writes:

|Excuse me if this is a dumb question, but why did the Astros take
|off several weeks before the Republican National Convention started ?
|Does it take *that* long to prepare the Dome ?
|
|-Dennis.

not necessarily a dumb question, but yes it does take *that* long
to prepare the dome.  if you see all the huge structures, monitors, 
platforms, etc., you can realize all the scaffolding and construction
that is necessary.  pretty elaborate setup.  those gop'ers aren't
short o' cash, that's for sure.  with all that is riding on this
convention, it is imperative that everything works correctly.

of course, it only takes a day or two to remove it; they 'stros'll be
back dome next tuesday.  it is much easier to verify that something
is removed correctly than it is to verify that it is erected correctly.

sj			-scene not herd-
From: demers@cs.ucsd.edu (David DeMers)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
Subject: Re: Dick Williams as Manager of the Padres?!?!?
Date: 21 Aug 92 21:31:16 GMT
Organization: =CSE Dept., U.C. San Diego

In article <1992Aug21.202231.23018@u.washington.edu> sgs@milton.u.washington.edu (Steven Smith) writes:
>In article <37108@sdcc12.ucsd.edu> demers@cs.ucsd.edu (David DeMers) writes:
>>Yes, players tend to hate [Dick Williams].  He is a bit of a jerk.  But 
>>everywhere he's gone, he's won.  He knows how to manage his players and get
> ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>>the most out of the team.

>With the exception of his most recent assignment, with the Mariners.  

OK, but that was barely a year and I submit that the Mariners
are the most consistently underachieving team for their talent...

Even today:
I still have a hard time understanding how a team with Griffey Jr.
Edgar, Harold Reynolds, Dave Valle (oops) and a surprise
like Fleming can be so bad.  When I think of lousy teams, I
think of, say, the Angels - Polonia is the offensive star(!).

-- 
Dave DeMers			 ddemers@UCSD   demers@cs.ucsd.edu
Computer Science & Engineering	C-014		demers%cs@ucsd.bitnet
UC San Diego					...!ucsd!cs!demers
La Jolla, CA 92093-0114	(619) 534-0688, or -8187, FAX: (619) 534-7029
From: dpassage@eden.CS.Berkeley.EDU (David Paschich)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
Subject: Re: Save the Giants
Date: 17 Aug 92 11:26:01
Organization: Computer Scientists Against the Oppression of Crutons
NNTP-Posting-Host: eden.cs.berkeley.edu
In-reply-to: claudius@leland.Stanford.EDU's message of Mon, 17 Aug 92 17:21:20 GMT

In article <1992Aug17.060506.668@leland.Stanford.EDU>, 
	claudius@leland.Stanford.EDU (Nelson Lu) writes:

   Unlike Bob Lurie (who owns the whole team), if you own a tiny
   fraction of the team, you cannot sell the team to the highest
   bidder on your whim, and therefore I think that in fact you will
   likely not gain anything by investing under this plan.

In article <DPASSAGE.92Aug17005127@eden.CS.Berkeley.EDU>,
	 dpassage@eden.CS.Berkeley.EDU (David Paschich) writes:

   >Sure you can.  It happens all the time.  It's called the stock market.

In article <1992Aug17.172120.29086@leland.Stanford.EDU>, 
	claudius@leland.Stanford.EDU (Nelson Lu) writes:

   One crucial difference: in the stock market, you (generally) get
   dividends for investing in stocks.  Since the Giants *lose* money
   each year, you won't get any dividends.

How does this affect your ability to sell your share in the team?
Sure, it might make the stock less attractive, but there are _lots_ of
people who will pay more than the "book value" just to say they own a
piece of the Giants.

And if stock in the Giants really did go public, we could finally test
Sherri's assertion that no Major League team really loses money, since
they'd have to publish quarterly reports.  In fact, I wouldn't be
surprised if the owners squashed it for just that reason.

David Paschich
From: tf0y+@andrew.cmu.edu (Todd Harris Fletcher)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
Subject: Re: Dream Team
Date: 13 Aug 92 15:52:08 GMT
	<16be90INNeqd@malibog.hal.COM>
Organization: University Relations - Diane, Carnegie Mellon, Pittsburgh, PA

>>No way, no how is David Cone better than Doug Drabek.  Sorry, but no.
>>
>>Todd
> 
> 
>I completely disagree. IMO David Cone is the best pitcher in either
>league (yep even better than Roger Clemens). I wouldn't mention Drabek
>in the same breath.

What exactly are you smoking?  Drabek IS better.  Let's compare:

ERA...Drabek  2.43
      Cone    2.84

Wins..Cone      13
      Drabek     9

K.....Cone     206   <---This is what you are looking at?  Means nothing.
      Ddrabek  135

IP....Cone     190
      Drabek   189

Runners allowed per inning:
      I don't have the exact numbers, but Drabek is MUCH better.

The only two that are fair for comparing two pitchers is ERA and H&W/IP.

Drabek leads Cone in both.

Todd
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
From: st1ge@Rosie.UH.EDU (Edward Hui)
Subject: Re: Giants Roster Difficulties...
Reply-To: st1ge@Rosie.UH.EDU
Organization: University of Houston
Distribution: na
Date: Sat, 22 Aug 1992 06:26:57 GMT

In article <1992Aug21.164601.24780@jpl-devvax.jpl.nasa.gov>, frisbee@jpl-devvax.jpl.nasa.gov (frisbee) writes:
>I know that Heredia got traded to make room for Clayton, but I still
>have a problem with the SF roster... USA Today shows the following
>players active:
>
>	Beck
>	Black   
>	Brantley
>	Burkett
>	Hickerson
>	Jackson
>	Oliveras
>	Pena
>	Righetti
>	Swift
>	Wilson    = 11

        They just sent Jeff Brantley to Phoenix to get his head straight.

>	Bailey
>	Benjamin
>	Clark
>	Felder
>	James
>	Leonard
>	Litton
>	Manwaring
>	McGee
>	Snyder
>	Thompson
>	Uribe
>	Williams
>	Wood	= 14
>
>	The promotion of Clayton brings the total to 26, Heredia's trade
>notwithstanding.
>^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>
>	Inquiring minds want to know...

        Note that the Heredia trade has nothing to do with Clayton's
promotion.  Heredia was not on the major league roster when he was traded
to the Expos for a minor leaguer.  Clayton is up because Jose Uribe went
on the 15-day DL for whatever reason.  Clayton has been hitting the ball
better this time, 3-3 tonight.  One other move:  Chris James was put on
the DL, Craig Colbert comes off.
        Jeff Brantley was NOT sent down to Phoenix, I was just kidding.

>
>			frisbee@devvax.jpl.nasa.gov
>
Edward Hui
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
From: Jarrod.Miller@bbs.oit.unc.edu (Jarrod Miller)
Subject: Re: CRY BABY: PIRATES CRUSHED 15-0
Organization: Extended Bulletin Board Service
Date: Mon, 17 Aug 1992 03:44:29 GMT

You went from one player complaining about the score to saying that
"today's athletes" are too sensitive.  A sweeping generality, no?

BTW, don't blame the Pirates for what one player said.  It's just that
guy's opinion.

-jarrod

--
   The opinions expressed are not necessarily those of the University of
     North Carolina at Chapel Hill, the Campus Office for Information
        Technology, or the Experimental Bulletin Board Service.
           internet:  bbs.oit.unc.edu or 152.2.22.80
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
From: hasch@jhuvms.hcf.jhu.edu (Bruce M Hasch)
Subject: Re: Dream Team
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41    
Organization: The Johns Hopkins University - HCF
Distribution: usa
Date: Thu, 13 Aug 1992 22:53:00 GMT

In article <weWcIcu00iUyQ1GGEc@andrew.cmu.edu>, tf0y+@andrew.cmu.edu (Todd Harris Fletcher) writes...
>>>No way, no how is David Cone better than Doug Drabek.  Sorry, but no.
>>>
>>>Todd
>> 
>> 
>>I completely disagree. IMO David Cone is the best pitcher in either
>>league (yep even better than Roger Clemens). I wouldn't mention Drabek
>>in the same breath.

Say What??

> 
>What exactly are you smoking?  Drabek IS better.  Let's compare:
> 
>ERA...Drabek  2.43
>      Cone    2.84
> 
>Wins..Cone      13
>      Drabek     9
> 
>K.....Cone     206   <---This is what you are looking at?  Means nothing.
>      Drabek  135

Not a particularly important statistic (although in Cone's case, whiffing a
batter means that the Met defense doesn't have to make a play :-) :-) )

> 
>IP....Cone     190
>      Drabek   189
> 
>Runners allowed per inning:
>      I don't have the exact numbers, but Drabek is MUCH better.

Agreed.  Through Wednesday, Drabek had given up 184 H+BB in 181 innings--an
awesome ratio.  Cone, on the other hand, had given up 219 H+BB in 176 2/3
innings, still a decent ratio, but nowhere near as good as Drabek's.  
Cone pitches in a better pitcher's park (although that advantage is probably
neutralized by the Mets god-awful defense).  And, in the end, keeping runners
off base is what it's all about.

> 
>The only two that are fair for comparing two pitchers is ERA and H&W/IP.
> 
Even ERA can be a bit bogus--a pitcher can conceivably be victimized by
one error with two outs, then give up six straight hits, and get NO
earned runs out of it.
> 
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Sign Cal Now!!!                      Bruce 'Slower than Sam Horn' Hasch
"The first pitch to Tucker Ashford is grounded into left field for a 
single--wait, it's ball one, low and outside"--Jerry Coleman
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
From: wlarkin@panix.com (Ward Larkin)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
Subject: village voice quiz answer 11-20
Date: 17 Aug 92 15:42:58 GMT
Organization: PANIX Public Access Unix & Internet, NYC


The following are questions & answers 11 thru 20 out of 40.

11. Which National League president blew his brains
    out with a revolver?

    Harry Pullian, in 1909 

12. Which player ex-murdered his wife and two
    children, then slit his own throat?

    Marty Bergen, in 1900

13. What pitcher and friend of Ernest Hemingway put
    a gun in his mouth and blew his brains out?

    Hugh Casey, in 1951

14. Which player went beserk on an airplane and
    died when the pilot hit him over the head with
    a fire extinguisher?

    Len Koenecke, in 1935

15. Name at least two players who have been brought
    up on murder charges.

    Cesar Cedeno, Hank Thompson, Danny Shay, Charlie 
    Sweeney, Charles "Pacer" Smith

16. Name the only major leaguer to be executed ( for
    murdering his five-year-old daughter and his
    sister in-law).

    Charles "Pacer" Smith, in 1895

17. Which Hall of Famer died after choking on meat?

    Jimmy Foxx
 
18. Which field position has the shortest life   
    expectancy
 
    catcher

19. What Dodger hocked his World Series ring to
    support his drug habit?

    Lou Johnson

20. Name the four Royals arrested and convicted, and
    jailed on drug charges in 1983.

    Vida Blue, Willie Willson, Willie Mays Aikens, 
    Jerry Martin
From: IO20456@MAINE.MAINE.EDU (Ryan Robbins)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
Subject: Re: Clemens wins his fourteenth!
Date: 14 Aug 92 18:22:32 GMT
Organization: University of Maine System

And for Clemens to win 20 games this year, and his chances are still
very good, it will be quite a feat, considering the Sox' dismal
season. Think of how many more wins he would have if the hitting was
there. It made me cringe one afternoon in July when, in an interview
on the radio with Sox announcer Joe Castiglione, Boggs said that
when Clemens is on the mound the whole team has the attitude of
"Let's get Roger a run, that's all he needs."

The Bosox have given Clemens virtually no support at all this year,
and for Clemens to win 20 games, or even 18 or 17, he deserves the
Cy Young Award. Wins are a moot part of a pitcher's record, as
earned run average is the most accurate statistic of a pitcher's
worth, and Clemens has shown he can have a lot of wins and a low
ERA with a losing team.

By the way, Clemens has said that he will not pitch beyond 1999.
His wife has urged him to retire before then. Roger also wants
a World Series ring, and badly. How anyone cannot see Clemens
as being the best pitcher in baseball is beyond me. He is the
one who has won almost all of his games, not the team. And to
some of those on the net who don't believe he's mentally stable
as another netter described him as being? I'd say he's pretty
stable when he can consistently pitch as well as he has when
his team has 0 or 1 or possibly two runs on the board. Any
other pitcher would give up after awhile, but not Roger.

+===============================================================+
||   RYAN ROBBINS                    INTERNET:                 ||
||   UNIVERSITY OF MAINE             IO20456@MAINE.MAINE.EDU   ||
+===============================================================+
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
From: tedward@cs.cornell.edu (Edward [Ted] Fischer)
Subject: Re: Dream Team
Organization: Cornell Univ. CS Dept, Ithaca NY 14853
Date: Wed, 12 Aug 1992 17:21:17 GMT

In article <16be90INNeqd@malibog.hal.COM> rc@hal.COM (Rolland Crunk) writes:
>
>I completely disagree. IMO David Cone is the best pitcher in either
>league (yep even better than Roger Clemens). I wouldn't mention Drabek
>in the same breath.

Better than Clemens?  Why?  He's a better strikeout pitcher, but he
doesn't do anything else very well at all!  He has a lifetime 3.18 ERA
with 3.52, 3.23, and 3.29 ERAs coming into this season.  This year he
has improved to a 2.75 ERA.  This is in the *NL* where he gets to face
pitchers.  And in *SHEA*, one of the best pitchers parks in the
league.  Clemens has a lifetime 2.85 ERA, and is hovering around a
2.20 ERA this year (a decline from 1990).  The highest ERA he has
posted in the last six years is an injury-marred 3.13.  Cone has only
*once* posted an ERA that beats this!

And wins?  Cone has only matched Clemens in wins *once* in his career.
Don't expect him to do it this year, either, despite Clemens' lack of
support.

I said something earlier about preferring Cone to the other free agent
pitchers this year.  I retract that.  I'd take Maddux (better ERA the
last four years and *far* more wins) and possibly even Smiley first.

And preferring Cone over Clemens?  Do you have *any* reason for this?
Cone throws harder, but despite being a mere 5 months younger than
Clemens, he simply isn't *close* in his ability to "pitch" rather than
simply "throw".

Oops.  Guess I must be a stat-head to not see that Cone is *obviously*
the better pitcher.  More mentally stable, too (NOT!!!).

-Valentine
-- 
Ob. woof: Clemens is the best pitcher ever!	tedward@cs.cornell.edu
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
From: snichols@adobe.com (Sherri Nichols)
Subject: Re: Dream Team
Organization: Adobe Systems Incorporated
Date: Thu, 13 Aug 1992 01:35:04 GMT

In article <16c8lrINNgld@malibog.hal.COM> rc@hal.COM (Rolland Crunk) writes:
>I am *not* a Mets fan and never have been. Yes maybe my leaning towards
>David Cone is based on his superior strikeout numbers. But if a batter
>strikes out, there is no possibility of him to:
>
>	1. Get a base hit
>	2. Advance a base runner 
>	3. Reach base on an error

However, Cone is striking out about 10 hitters/game.  That's great, and I
certainly don't mean to diminish that, and it's an important indicator for
looking at how he's likely to hold up over time, but it's not the whole
story by any means.  If we're talking about who the best pitcher is, you've
also got to look at what he does with the hitters he *doesn't* strike out,
and he doesn't deal with those as well as Roger Clemens.  

If strikeouts were everything, Jose DeLeon would have been a top pitcher.  

>How does a particular stadium have any effect on how many batters a
>pitcher stikes out? A better pitching mound? Yeah right...

Visibility (lighting), hitter's backdrop.  Shea is noted for having poor
visibility for the hitter.

>Cone is 29 years old. Nolan Ryan is 45; why is it inconceivable that he
>is beginning to show what he is capable of?

I'm not questioning whether Cone is a good pitcher, but that doesn't make
him better than Clemens.  

>for him to win. ERA? Yeah this stat is a pretty good indicator of how 
>well a pitcher is doing, however it can be a bit misleading and slight 
>variations really don't mean too much.

In what way is it misleading in the comparison between Clemens and Cone?  I
can see two: Clemens pitches half his games in a hitters park, while Cone
pitchers half his games in a park that favors pitchers, and Cone gets to
face pitchers.


>The point I am trying to make is that statistics can be used in any
>way that one wants to in order to support their opinion.

There are ways that hold up, and ways they don't, though.  

> I place
>a lot of weight on strikeouts (see reasons given at the beginning 
>of this message), innings pitched (pitcher normally gets yanked
>when he gets in trouble), and ERA.

I've addressed the problem with placing so much weight on strikeouts.  I do
think strikeouts are important in evaluating what the likely future of the
pitcher is, but not nearly as important as ERA and IP when evaluating how
the pitcher is helping the team *now*.

>I've got one too). You don't have to like it and I'm not gonna spend a 
>lot of time trying to justify it or convince anyone else.

Then what's the point?  This is a forum for discussion; it's not a very
interesting discussion just to say "I think David Cone is great, and that's
all there is to it".  Why are you posting about it?

Sherri Nichols
snichols@adobe.com