HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: wrat@unisql.UUCP (wharfie)
Newsgroups: soc.men
Subject: Violence && Freedom (was Philosophy for Gordon )
Date: 28 Sep 92 12:48:07 GMT
Reply-To: wrat@unisql.UUCP (wharfie)
Organization: UniSQL, Inc., Austin, Texas, USA

In article <1992Sep26.130832.19088@panix.com> gcf@panix.com (Gordon Fitch) writes:
>Freedom and violence are antithetical

	Isn't it sometimes necessary to respond to attempts to restrict 
your freedom with violence sufficient to ensure its continued existence?
Newsgroups: soc.men,soc.women,alt.sex
From: pete@cssc-syd.tansu.com.au (Peter Alexander Merel)
Subject: Re: Female "Wiring"
Organization: AOTC - CSSC
Date: Sun, 27 Sep 1992 20:43:07 GMT

hamton@byron.u.washington.edu (MrEuStress) writes:
>   I'm baffled by "Webster's Ninth New 
>Colegiate Dictionary`s" less-than-accurate 
>discription of: cli to ris: (1615) :a small 
>organ at the anterior or ventral part of the 
>vulva homologous [similar in structure] to 
>the penis.  -- It should have read: "homologous 
>to the _glans penis_"

I take it then you've never heard of the Lowndes's crowns theory? There's
a book on it - "Eve's Secrets" or something like that ... suggests that
the clitoris is analogous to the the penis shaft up to but not including
the glans, and that the flap of flesh around the exterior of the female
urethra is the actual glans analog. The book seems quite well researched
and convincing. I'll see if I can't dig it out to give you a better pointer.

-- 
Internet: pete@cssc-syd.tansu.com.au   UUCP: {uunet,mcvax}!munnari!cssc-syd!pete
Snail: 1/18-20 Orion Road, Lane Cove NSW 2066 Australia    Phone: +61 2 911 3130
The game is afoot!
From: geb@cs.pitt.edu (Gordon Banks)
Newsgroups: soc.men
Subject: Re: Aspirin, heart disease, and women?
Date: 30 Sep 92 14:35:00 GMT
Reply-To: geb@cs.pitt.edu (Gordon Banks)
Distribution: usa
Organization: Univ. of Pittsburgh Computer Science

In article <1992Sep29.043611.18661@unixg.ubc.ca> schultz@unixg.ubc.ca (Stewart Schultz) writes:
>In article <1992Sep29.011341.2517@leland.Stanford.EDU>
>farthing@leland.Stanford.EDU (ljf) writes:
>>
>>Do you know, for
>>example, if the "aspirin-a-day helps cardiac patients" claim works for
>>women, since no women were included in this study?
>
>That this is an urban myth seems the obvious conclusion.  If anyone has
>a source for the story I'd be interested in seeing it.

The initial aspirin in TIA studies were done at the VA hospitals
and there were no women included.  Thus until more studies were
done, it was only proved beneficial in men.  People still gave
it to women, though.





-- 
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Gordon Banks  N3JXP      | "I have given you an argument; I am not obliged
geb@cadre.dsl.pitt.edu   |  to supply you with an understanding." -S.Johnson
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Newsgroups: soc.men,soc.women,alt.feminism
From: sheaffer@netcom.com (Robert Sheaffer)
Subject: Re: Re :Female "Wiring"
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services (408 241-9760 guest)
Date: Mon, 5 Oct 1992 23:11:58 GMT

In article <1992Oct5.060921.15054@s1.gov> lip@s1.gov (Loren I. Petrich) writes:

>	And you deleting of "soc.women" from the subject line, Robert
>Sheaffer, suggests something suspicious about you and the female sex.
>

I wasn't going to reply to this until I saw the above paranoia. I didn't
delete ANYTHING from any "subject" line (you're starting to sound like
Brian Siano here). Feel free to post this stuff to "alt.lesbian.leather"
for all I care. Hell, I *add* newsgroups to the stuff I write, not delete
them (at least until people start complaining).

I did enjoy your comments about Susie Bright's Joy of Fistfucking; I wasn't
aware that stretching the vagina for childbirth was generally considered
a pleasurable experience. Most women tend to say it hurts like hell.
But then Camille Paglia keeps reminding us that in the pursuit of "pleasure", 
"pain" is susally not far off. See, maybe Bright and Paglia can agree on
something? :)

Maybe she should try gerbils?   :)

(BTW, where is the Bright/Paglia exchange published?)


-- 
  
        Robert Sheaffer - Scepticus Maximus - sheaffer@netcom.com
  
 Past Chairman, The Bay Area Skeptics - for whom I speak only when authorized!

       "Beware when the great God lets loose a thinker on this planet.
        Then all things are at risk. It is as when a conflagration has
        broken out in a great city, and no man knows what is safe, or
        where it will end."
                               - Emerson: Essay, "Circles"
Newsgroups: soc.men
From: jwales@silver.ucs.indiana.edu (jimmy donal wales)
Subject: Re: We, the persons
Organization: Indiana University
Distribution: usa
Date: Mon, 5 Oct 1992 21:17:11 GMT

In article <1992Oct5.154235.15608@mr.med.ge.com> larry@ducktales.med.ge.com (Larry Landwehr) writes:
>
>"We, the people" is from the constitution, not the declaration of
>independence.  I found this out before anyone told me, so flame-off.

Wow!  This Larry Landwehr person is actually on the list!  I
sort of figured he was one of the 'hit and run' flakes.

Welcome, Larry.

I thought your post was completely idiotic.  You'll fit right in
with the other mindless conservatives on this list.

--Jimbo
Newsgroups: soc.men
Subject: Re: If his dick offends thee, cut it off?
From: rivero@mdcbbs.com
Date: 2 Oct 92 09:50:08 GMT
Organization: Electronic Data Systems, Unigraphics Division, Cypress CA
Nntp-Posting-User: goldsmith

In article <3851@unisql.UUCP>, wrat@unisql.UUCP (wharfie) writes:
> In article <1992Sep30.224237.21257@unixg.ubc.ca> schultz@unixg.ubc.ca (Stewart Schultz) writes:
>>penile amputations in the U.S. each year, and that most of these
>>occur during domestic disputes.  The gist of the story was that
> 
> 	To me, the interesting part of this is that the choice of target
> indicates that these incidents are probably not self-defense but that the
> attacks are intended to cause pain and cripple the target.  
-- 

  Also, given that a normal man would be less than cooperative, it implies
somehow having subdued the man with the intent of performing the operation.
That in turn implies premeditation and what the courts term "malice of
forethought".  The case of Abdul Motaleb is a good example. 6 months
after the divorce, his wife, Sharmin Begum called him saying their 2 year old
was ill. When he arrived to help care for the child, Sharmin's friends
pinned him to the floor while she applied the razor.

  I don't know. Maybe he ate her chocolate Easter bunny or something. :)




<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
|  Michael Rivero        rivero@dev8j.mdcbbs.com     "A Human's Human!"  |
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
|                       I CAME,  I SAW,  I DIVORCED                      |
<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

Newsgroups: soc.men,alt.feminism
From: sheaffer@netcom.com (Robert Sheaffer)
Subject: Re: Female "Wiring"
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services (408 241-9760 guest)
Date: Sun, 4 Oct 1992 19:06:21 GMT

In article <1akqddINNd82@gap.caltech.edu> peri@cco.caltech.edu (Michal Leah Peri) writes:
>
>Robert,
                 [Personal insults deleted]>
>
>							--  Michal

I posted the quote from Simone de Beauvoir (whose feminist credentials
are impeccable) discussing how women who hold a grudge against their
husbands for various reasons will use their power to withhold sex to
spite their husbands. If you think this is an untrue statement, then you need
to explain why you think that de Beauvoir made it up. Perhaps she wanted
to malign and slander women, and make men feel better? (HA!) Or perhaps
it sometimes is true?

Incidentally, I received private email saying how astonishingly accurate
that quote seems to have been!

-- 
  
        Robert Sheaffer - Scepticus Maximus - sheaffer@netcom.com
  
 Past Chairman, The Bay Area Skeptics - for whom I speak only when authorized!

       "Beware when the great God lets loose a thinker on this planet.
        Then all things are at risk. It is as when a conflagration has
        broken out in a great city, and no man knows what is safe, or
        where it will end."
                               - Emerson: Essay, "Circles"
Newsgroups: soc.men
From: charleen@ADS.COM (Charleen Bunjiovianna)
Subject: Re: Amy Fischer: The Circus Continues
Organization: The Original Estrogen-Crazed Lust Bunnies
Date: Mon, 28 Sep 1992 18:17:22 GMT

In article <Bv77qB.B7y@cs.psu.edu> beaver@castor.cs.psu.edu (Don Beaver) writes:
>
>(And no, I don't believe this is a disparagement of rape concerns, 
>which are very serious, but it is a disparagement of the unreasonable
>movement to redefine "rape" as "harassment," which itself detracts 
>from the seriousness of rape.)

I think what you actually meant to say was:

...redefine "harassment" to be included in "rape".

You don't mean that a woman who has been raped has, in reality, simply
been harassed.

Yours for clarity,
Charleen

--
From: wrat@unisql.UUCP (wharfie)
Newsgroups: soc.men
Subject: Re: Music Suggestions
Date: 28 Sep 92 22:20:35 GMT
Reply-To: wrat@unisql.UUCP (wharfie)
Organization: UniSQL, Inc., Austin, Texas, USA

In article <Bv9464.32q@acsu.buffalo.edu> dgthomas@ubvmsb.cc.buffalo.edu (David Gilles-Thomas) writes:
> We're looking for songs that will express some aspect of being a man

	"Hard to Handle", "'Till the Mornin' Comes", "Money, Money", "I Will Take You Home",
all performed by the Grateful Dead.
From: rmcewen@spcb.bbn.com (Regis McEwen)
Newsgroups: soc.men
Subject: .Re: Choice for men: moving beyond anti-feminism
Followup-To: soc.men
Date: 1 Oct 1992 04:16:34 GMT
Reply-To: rmcewen@spcb.bbn.com
NNTP-Posting-Host: spcb.bbn.com

In article <19sc7cINNcus@gap.caltech.edu>, peri@cco.caltech.edu (Michal Leah Peri) writes:
>oneil@cwis.unomaha.edu (Sharon O'Neil) writes:
>
>>And yet, I am expected to take the Pill each and every day, despite the
>>fact that there are extremely serious health risks that I have to take
>>into consideration every time I swallow one.
>
>I once came across a man who "expected" me to be on the Pill.
>I told him I "expected" him to leave.  
>Women don't need to put up with that shit.  
>There's *lots* of sexy men out there who come condom-equipped.
>
>(puns intended)
>
>					--  Michal
>

[Sent to soc.men, only, because I don't get alt.feminism; although I'd
appreciate it if someone would forward it there as well. [RPM] ]


	Michal, I'm curious as to whether or not *you* see that this man's
	"expectation" of *you* to be on the Pill, is no different than your
	"expectation" that a "sexy man out there" wear a condom with *you*?
	("come condom-equipped")
	
	Leaving aside for the momment the fact that condoms protect against
	STDs (and therefore very prudent to use !!): do you accept that a
	man can express the same indignant outrage in the same manner with
	*you* if *you* expected him to wear a condom and that he "expect[s]
	*you* to leave" -- "[Men] don't need to put up with that sh*t" in
	a similiar fashion?

	[I realize that both parties don't have to "put up" with anything that
	they don't want to, but I'm asking *you* from a principled standpoint:
	whether or not *you* accept HIS indignant outrage from *YOUR*
	VIEWPOINT and recognize it as an *equally valid* "expectation" and
	an *equally appropiate *response*?

	Or are you saying that it is an acceptable "expectation", in general,
	regarding condom use ("come condom-equiped") and that "expectations",
	in general, regarding taking the Pill ("Women don't need to put up
	with that sh*t") are not?]


							-Regis


Xref: sparky soc.men:17288 alt.feminism:1989
From: peri@cco.caltech.edu (Michal Leah Peri)
Newsgroups: soc.men,alt.feminism
Subject: Re: Female "Wiring"
Date: 3 Oct 1992 18:56:45 GMT
Organization: California Institute of Technology, Pasadena
NNTP-Posting-Host: sandman.caltech.edu

lip@s1.gov (Loren I. Petrich) writes:

>In article <1992Oct2.011417.18251@netcom.com> sheaffer@netcom.com (Robert Sheaffer) writes:
>::
>::This is the most *utterly* *ridiculous* thing I've seen posted here
>::today!  Although the post about withholding sex because the male desires
>::it is a close second.
>:
>:What's so ridiculous about that? It's called "spite," a consequence of
>:"envy", one of the so-called 'seven deadly sins.' And it's extremely common.
>:

Robert,

Are you trying to tell us that you are so inspiring of spite that a 
woman would withold sex from you just to spite you?

Or are you trying to tell us that you are so undesirable that 
it is easy for her to withold sex from you?

							--  Michal
Xref: sparky soc.men:17345 soc.women:17383
From: shimeall@taurus.cs.nps.navy.mil (timothy shimeall)
Newsgroups: soc.men,soc.women
Subject: Re: CONDOMS! and AIDS
Date: 6 Oct 92 00:24:53 GMT
Organization: Naval Postgraduate School, Monterey CA

In article <1992Oct5.032540.4753@cbnewsk.cb.att.com> noraa@cbnewsk.cb.att.com (aaron.l.hoffmeyer) writes:
>2 to 5% of the world's population will contract an HIV virus in the next
>10 years.  Do you want to be one of those people?
>
>Use a condom!  If you don't like the way they feel, experiment around
>with them - stick with latex, though.  When you find one you can
>tolerate, let others know.  

Unfortunately, no one has done reliable tests on the efficiency of
condoms at preventing HIV infection.  (To my knowledge,
counterarguments citing references are welcome.) We know that condoms,
used properly and unbroken, are about 85% effective at preventing
pregnancy.  Given the female fertility cycle, this means that (worst
case) condoms may block sperm transmission only about 60% of the time.
However, the latex used in condoms is also known to tend to have
channels penetrating it that are 5-10 times the diameter of HIV (HIV is
much smaller than sperm). Hmm, sounds nice and "safe" doesn't it...

2 to 5% of the world's population will contract an HIV virus in the
next 10 years. Do you want to be one of these people? Then trust a
condom.  

The only known methods for being _sure_ to avoid HIV are:
 + sexual and intraveneous drug abstinence
 + mutual exclusivity in sexual practices with an uninfected 
   non-intraveneous-drug-using (NIDU) partner (of course, now 
   you need some way of ensuring partner remains exclusive and NIDU...)
					Tim
-- 
Tim Shimeall ((408) 646-2509)
The proper response to detecting a bug isn't to fix the bug - it's to make 
sure you'll never have to worry about that bug again.  --- Richard Hamming
Xref: sparky soc.men:17073 soc.women:17155 alt.child-support:3365
From: peri@cco.caltech.edu (Michal Leah Peri)
Newsgroups: soc.men,soc.women,alt.child-support
Subject: Re: Another Irate Dad Kills
Date: 29 Sep 92 18:27:13 GMT
Organization: California Institute of Technology, Pasadena
NNTP-Posting-Host: sandman.caltech.edu

allanc@cs.su.oz.au (Restless Wanderer) writes:

>I have a very perplexing question to pose to the readers of this group.
>I do not post often,but after all the hype on father/mother bashing threads.

>Why in christs'name do you guys WANT to procreate?
>Guys claim they get dumped on.
>Women claim they get dumped on.

>Why not just do the right thing and stop this stupid reproduction nonsense.
>Economically ,we'd all be better off.

Yeah.... For about 1 generation.

							--  Michal
Newsgroups: soc.men,soc.women
From: Will Steeves <goid@zooid.guild.org>
Subject: Re: Vicious woman bus con
X-To: MIKE POWELL
Organization: The Zoo of Ids
Date: Wed, 16 Sep 1992 03:41:00 GMT

mikep@hpmwtd.sr.hp.com (Mike Powell) writes...
MP>         ug.

MP>         Will.... I think you missed the sarcasm.


Sorry...it's that "humourless activist" thing again....UGH!!!

---
Will Steeves, goid@zooid.guild.org                      "Neil Hull is GOiD"
ZOOiD BBS, Toronto, Ontario - The Zoo Of Ids            "GOiDS Rule"
(416) 322-7876
---
 * SLMR 2.1a * "Take my Worf... please."
Newsgroups: soc.men,alt.feminism
From: sheaffer@netcom.com (Robert Sheaffer)
Subject: Re: Female "Wiring"
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services (408 241-9760 guest)
Date: Fri, 2 Oct 1992 01:14:17 GMT

In article <137606@lll-winken.LLNL.GOV> lisa@zeppelin.llnl.gov (Lisa Corsetti) writes:
>
>This is the most *utterly* *ridiculous* thing I've seen posted here
>today!  Although the post about withholding sex because the male desires
>it is a close second.

What's so ridiculous about that? It's called "spite," a consequence of
"envy", one of the so-called 'seven deadly sins.' And it's extremely common.

If you don't believe me, maybe you'll believe Simone de Beauvoir (from
"The Second Sex", Vintage edition, p. 521):

     Where it is impossible for her to contest the mental superiority
     of her husband, she will try to take her revenge on the sexual
     level, by refusing to permit her husband's embraces until she
     gets what she wants, or by insulting him with a show of frigidity,
     or by reducing him to the position of a suppliant for her favors,
     through capricious and coquettish behavior; through flirting,
     making him jealous, deceiving him in one way or another, she
     tries to humiliate him as a virile man.... There are women,
     sometimes likened to the praying mantis, who wish to  triumph
     both by night and by day: they are cold in lovemaking, scornful
     in conversation, tyrannical in conduct.

Today that sort of behavior is held up as the ideal!  :)

-- 
  
        Robert Sheaffer - Scepticus Maximus - sheaffer@netcom.com
  
 Past Chairman, The Bay Area Skeptics - for whom I speak only when authorized!

       "Beware when the great God lets loose a thinker on this planet.
        Then all things are at risk. It is as when a conflagration has
        broken out in a great city, and no man knows what is safe, or
        where it will end."
                               - Emerson: Essay, "Circles"
From: dgthomas@ubvmsb.cc.buffalo.edu (David Gilles-Thomas)
Newsgroups: soc.men
Subject: Music Suggestions
Date: 27 Sep 92 19:15:00 GMT
Organization: University at Buffalo
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41

I'm looking for some music for a workshop entitled 'On Being
A Man" that I am designing.  The workshop participants
will be college students.  We're looking for songs that
will express some aspect of being a man -- identity, 
sexuality, fatherhood, socialization -- we're pretty open
at this point, we have just begun designing this thing.

So, I'd be interested in any suggestions you might have,
especially songs that have touched you in a personal way.

If you want you can send your suggestions to me directly,
and if I get enough of a response I can collect all the
responses into a list and post the results.

----------------------------------------------------------------------
David L. Gilles-Thomas                      Confusion is the state of
Coordinator of Outreach Services            promise, the fertile void
Counseling Center, SUNYAB                   where surprise is possible
120 Richmond Quad                           again.
Buffalo, N.Y. 14261                                - Paul Goodman
716-645-2720
From: gazit@duke.cs.duke.edu (Hillel Gazit)
Newsgroups: soc.men
Subject: Re: Value of Womens' Lives (was: _Backlash_)
Date: 26 Sep 92 06:10:26 GMT
Reply-To: gazit@cs.duke.edu (Hillel)
Organization: Nefolet shel nemushot (Fallout of Wimps)

In article <1992Sep25.150951.17523@mahendo.jpl.nasa.gov> 
julie@eddie.jpl.nasa.gov (Julie Kangas) writes:

>This may sound it, but I'm not bitter. I just want women to be
>able to rejoin the human race.  To get off the pedestal and

Will you give your priority in divorce and custody for that?

Will you give your priority for a life boat for that?

Will you give men some choice in a case of unwanted pregnancy for that?

Will you give your affirmative action priorities for that?

Will you be willing to give up your status as draft exempt for that?

(These are not rhetorical questions.)
Xref: sparky soc.men:17138 soc.women:17213
From: starbuck@ucrmath.ucr.edu (starbuck)
Newsgroups: soc.men,soc.women
Subject: Re: [Pet Peeves] What irritates you or your partner?
Date: 30 Sep 92 15:29:20 GMT
Followup-To: soc.men
Organization: University of California, Riverside

In article <1992Sep29.173300.29857@linus.mitre.org> cgates@mitre.org (Curt Gates) writes:
>In article <1992Sep29.145124.19856@gdr.bath.ac.uk> ccsmh@gdr.bath.ac.uk 
>(Mark Harding) writes:
>> I have recenetly moved in with my girlfriend and have started to discover
>> that she, to me at least, seems annoyed at things I think are trivial.
>
>Clue #1:  You moved into *her* place. Comprende? 

Oh, yes, good, very good point.

Solution #1: Find a new place together if your relationship survives.

My marriage is 14 years "in the making".  We first lived together "at her
place".  We didn't have a problem because I just adapted to her standards,
until ... we moved.

The friction began once we we on the road to marital bliss.  All such roads
have potholes where you cannot see them.  Some of these potholes are a bitch
to get out of.  In some marriages the only way to get out is divorce, in
ours has been to "work out the problems together".  Working it out together
can at times make divorce a very attractive option.

We spent a good many years working out the problem of who will do what and
when, and how and...  The key to comming to agreements on the domestic side
of a things is to decide on standards.  Much of the time we found that the
attitudes we had were one's that we had adopted from our parents.  So we
worked out each "homelife realted issue one by one" until we came to an
agreement, until we came to create our standards.  "And the torch is passed
to the next generation".

In the area of "household chores" we made three lists, titled Like, Dislike,
and Don't Care.  We then discussed and divided the housework based on giving
each of us as many chores that we liked, or didn't care about.  What was left
was what we both disliked.  We divided that group fairly between us.

Anyone who has gone through the rigors of working out the "housework", which
includes the manly art of mowing lawns, will find it is only the begining.
Just wait till you get around to talking about M  O  N  E  Y. ( dosn't talk
is swears -- Bob Dylan ).

starbuck
Newsgroups: soc.men,soc.women,soc.singles
From: sheaffer@netcom.com (Robert Sheaffer)
Subject: Re: Book Rec.: _Bodies: Overcoming the Tyranny of Perfection_
Date: Mon, 28 Sep 92 17:39:57 GMT
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services (408 241-9760 guest)

In article <1992Sep28.035904.21232@cs.ucla.edu> coleman@rocky.cs.ucla.edu (Mike Coleman) writes:
>
>   Christine, for instance, the corporate vice-president, made
>   it very clear she has no interest in "pale hairless guys who
>   make great pasta," whom she calls "newts."  She dates tall,
>   well-built, handsome fellows.  "I don't need to be taken
>   care of," she said, " and I can forge my own way and make a
>   lot of money.  I'd sort of like the feminine side of me
>   reinforced by being with a man who is more male than I am.
>   Dealing with a man who has a real female side is
>   unsettling."

I think that just about every woman wants to be with a man who is "more
male" than she is. However, the big problem for many modern women is:
having moved so far in the direction of "maleness" herself, the number
of men noticeably "more male" than her is unfortunately rather small. 
And, she has a lot of competition!

-- 
  
        Robert Sheaffer - Scepticus Maximus - sheaffer@netcom.com
  
 Past Chairman, The Bay Area Skeptics - for whom I speak only when authorized!

       "Beware when the great God lets loose a thinker on this planet.
        Then all things are at risk. It is as when a conflagration has
        broken out in a great city, and no man knows what is safe, or
        where it will end."
                               - Emerson: Essay, "Circles"
Newsgroups: soc.men,soc.women,alt.child-support