From: m23364@mwunix (James Meritt)
Newsgroups: talk.religion.misc
Subject: Re: I'm God.
Date: 29 Sep 92 17:09:25 GMT
Organization: MITRE Corporation, McLean VA

In article <69165@hydra.gatech.EDU> rpitts@emperor.gatech.edu (Richard Pitts) writes:
}Summary of Dr. D. James Kennedy's book "Why I Believe"
}
}[1]Why I Believe the Bible:
}The Bible gives many predictive prophecies.  It tells us of 
}a coming Prophet into whom's mouth God will put his words.  
}It tells not to fear anyone who gives a prophesy that is 
}false.  The Bible even quotes God as saying that there is 
}none like God, himself, declaring the end from the 
}beginning, and from ancient times the things that are not 
}yet done.

rah rah rah.  let me pull out something here on there "prophecies":

	_Evidence_That_Demands_a_Verdict_ is a book that presents "historical
evidences for the christian faith".  It is produced by the Campus Crusade for
Christ, Inc and was prepared by a Magna Cum Laude graduate of Talbot 
Theological Seminary.  

SECTION III. GOD AT WORK IN HISTORY AND HUMAN LIVES
}	Chapter 11. Prophecy fulfilled in history
}	The Prophecies
}		1. Tyre
Dave Butler writes:
" Tyre is now Sur, a coastal Lebanese city of about 10,000 to 15,000 people.
Comment:
Josh is blatantly wrong, and it only took a couple minutes to verify.  His
scholarship is not merely shoddy, but non-existent."
Robert Low writes:
"On the fulfillment of OT prophecy, specifically the fall of Tyre:
(Ezekiel 26ff)
the description given of the fullfilment of this prophecy
could only be held to by somebody who already was committed to
believing that. The prophecy clearly implies that Tyre
would fall to the forces of Nebuchadrezzar, and that Tyre
would be completely destroyed, never again to be inhabited.
Of course, Tyre survived the siege and was not taken until
Alexander built a mole out to the island.  It is hard to 
justify this as a fullfilment of the prophecy, since the
King of Tyre is being told that he will die in the sacking
of Tyre, and he didn't live that long. However, even granting
this, Tyre is still inhabited to this day: McDowell attempts
to extract himself from this by maintaining that what is
"really meant" is that Tyre will never again be prosperous.
Unfortunately for him, Tyre currently has a thriving
tourist industry, and a fishing industry."

James J. Lippard writes:
"According to Ezekiel 26:3-14, 26:21, and 27:36, Nebuchadnezzar would capture
Tyre and destroy it forever, never even to be found again.  Ezekiel 26:12
predicted that he would seize its riches.  In fact, Nebuchadnezzar's siege
lasted 13 years, but he never captured the city, only its outworks on the
mainland.  Ezekiel 29:18 admits that he never captured its riches.  Tyre was
destroyed 240 years later by Alexander the Great, and it was subsequently
rebuilt (and referenced in the New Testament in Matthew 11:21-22, Mark 3:8,
Luke 10:13-14, Acts 12:20 and 21:3,7).  It was destroyed again in 1291 C.E.,
again rebuilt, and continues to exist today.
   Josh McDowell, amazingly enough, cites this as a prime example of a
prophecy that has been fulfilled [McDowell 72, pp. 285-291].  He rationalizes
away the rebuilding of Tyre by making a distinction between "Old Tyre" and
"Tyre", an arbitrary distinction made only by Christian apologists.  He
removes the problem of the prediction that Tyre would "never be found again"
by claiming that Ezekiel 26:21 really means only that Tyre would never regain
its former power."
}		2. Sidon
EZE 28:20  Again the word of the LORD came unto me, saying,
EZE 28:21  Son of man, set thy face against Zidon,  and  prophesy
against it,
EZE 28:22  And say, Thus saith the Lord GOD; Behold, I am against
thee,  O Zidon; and I will be glorified in the midst of thee: and
they shall know that I am the LORD, when I  shall  have  executed
judgments in her, and shall be sanctified in her.
EZE 28:23  For I will send into her pestilence,  and  blood  into
her  streets; and the wounded shall be judged in the midst of her
by the sword upon her on every side; and they shall know  that  I
am the LORD.
EZE 28:24  And there shall be no more a pricking brier  unto  the
house  of  Israel,  nor  any grieving thorn of all that are round
about them, that despised them; and they shall know that I am the
Lord GOD.
EZE 28:25  Thus saith the Lord GOD; When I  shall  have  gathered
the  house  of  Israel  from the people among whom they are scat-
tered, and shall be sanctified  in  them  in  the  sight  of  the
heathen, then shall they dwell in their land that I have given to
my servant Jacob.
EZE 28:26  And they shall dwell safely therein, and  shall  build
houses,  and  plant  vineyards; yea, they shall dwell with confi-
dence, when I have executed judgments upon all those that despise
them  round  about  them;  and they shall know that I am the LORD
their God.

Note that here the LORD is addressing Ezekiel as "Son of Man".

How about a reference after this?
JOE 2:32  And it shall come to pass, that whosoever shall call on
the name of the LORD shall be delivered: for in mount Zion and in
Jerusalem shall be deliverance, as the LORD hath said, and in the
remnant whom the LORD shall call.
JOE 3:1  For, behold, in those days, and in  that  time,  when  I
shall bring again the captivity of Judah and Jerusalem,
JOE 3:2  I will also gather all nations, and will bring them down
into  the  valley  of Jehoshaphat, and will plead with them there
for my people and for my heritage Israel, whom  they  have  scat-
tered among the nations, and parted my land.
JOE 3:3  And they have cast lots for my people; and have given  a
boy  for  an  harlot,  and  sold a girl for wine, that they might
drink.
JOE 3:4  Yea, and what have ye to do with me, O Tyre, and  Zidon,
and  all the coasts of Palestine? will ye render me a recompence?
and if ye recompense me, swiftly and speedily will I return  your
recompence upon your own head;
JOE 3:5  Because ye have taken my silver and my  gold,  and  have
carried into your temples my goodly pleasant things:
JOE 3:6  The children also of Judah and the children of Jerusalem
have  ye  sold  unto  the Grecians, that ye might remove them far
from their border.
JOE 3:7  Behold, I will raise them out of the  place  whither  ye
have  sold  them,  and  will return your recompence upon your own
head:
JOE 3:8  And I will sell your sons and your  daughters  into  the
hand  of  the  children of Judah, and they shall sell them to the
Sabeans, to a people far off: for the LORD hath spoken it.
JOE 3:9  Proclaim ye this among the Gentiles; Prepare  war,  wake
up  the  mighty  men,  let all the men of war draw near; let them
come up:
JOE 3:10  Beat your plowshares into swords and your  pruninghooks
into spears: let the weak say, I am strong.
JOE 3:11  Assemble yourselves, and  come,  all  ye  heathen,  and
gather  yourselves together round about: thither cause thy mighty
ones to come down, O LORD.

Hmmmm.  Seems to be a timing problem here.  It clearely must exist at
the time that Joel talks about - which has not happened yet.


}		3. Samaria
HOS 13:16  Samaria shall become desolate; for she  hath  rebelled
against  her  God:  they  shall  fall by the sword: their infants
shall be dashed in pieces, and their women with  child  shall  be
ripped up.

MIC 1:4  And the mountains shall be molten  under  him,  and  the
valleys shall be cleft, as wax before the fire, and as the waters
that are poured down a steep place.
MIC 1:5  For the transgression of Jacob is all this, and for  the
sins  of the house of Israel. What is the transgression of Jacob?
is it not Samaria? and what are the high  places  of  Judah?  are
they not Jerusalem?
MIC 1:6  Therefore I will make Samaria as an heap of  the  field,
and  as  plantings of a vineyard: and I will pour down the stones
thereof into the valley, and  I  will  discover  the  foundations
thereof.
MIC 1:7  And all the graven images thereof  shall  be  beaten  to
pieces,  and all the hires thereof shall be burned with the fire,
and all the idols thereof will I lay desolate: for  she  gathered
it of the hire of an harlot, and they shall return to the hire of
an harlot.


Boy, this reads llike a nuclear hit.  Mealting mountains and all.
And it is all Jacob's fault...
I must have missed the nucdet.

}		4. Gaza-Ashkelon
AMO 1:7  But I will send a fire on the wall of Gaza, which  shall
devour the palaces thereof:
(KJV claims Amos ~BC800)

JER 47:1  The word of the LORD that came to Jeremiah the  prophet
against the Philistines, before that Pharaoh smote Gaza.
JER 47:2  Thus saith the LORD; Behold, waters rise up out of  the
north,  and shall be an overflowing flood, and shall overflow the
land, and all that is therein; the  city,  and  them  that  dwell
therein:  then  the men shall cry, and all the inhabitants of the
land shall howl.
JER 47:3  At the noise of the stamping of the hoofs of his strong
horses,  at  the  rushing of his chariots, and at the rumbling of
his wheels, the fathers shall not look back to their children for
feebleness of hands;
JER 47:4  Because of the day that cometh to spoil all the Philis-
tines,  and  to  cut  off  from Tyrus and Zidon every helper that
remaineth: for the LORD will spoil the Philistines,  the  remnant
of the country of Caphtor.
JER 47:5  Baldness is come upon Gaza; Ashkelon is  cut  off  with
the remnant of their valley: how long wilt thou cut thyself?
(KJV claims for ~BC607)

Hmmmm.  And this was canonized well after these times.  But the
destruction was apparently past-tense by Jermiah's account.
And the account seems to credit a Pharoh.  Data?

}		5. Moab-Ammon
JER 48:46  Woe be unto thee, O Moab! the people of  Chemosh  per-
isheth:  for  thy sons are taken captives, and thy daughters cap-
tives.

JER 48:47  Yet will I bring again the captivity of  Moab  in  the
latter days, saith the LORD. Thus far is the judgment of Moab.


JER 49:6  And afterward I will bring again the captivity  of  the
children of Ammon, saith the LORD.


}		6. Petra-Edom
Dave Butler writes:
"Petra was on a trade route, stuck around until the 7th century, then the new
trade routes and the Moslem invasion pretty much did it in.  It was recently
rediscovered.  A recent report from CNN pointed out that a small community has
grown up about the place, because of the tourist industry.  That community has
also taken a sever dip recently, as few tourists have been going to Lebanon."

James J. Lippard writes:
"Isaiah 34:9-10 says that Edom's streams will be turned into pitch, its earth
into brimstone, and its land burning pitch which will burn night and day with
its smoke going up forever.  It also says that no one shall ever pass through
it.  All of these predictions are false.  Josh McDowell [McDowell 72, pp.
299-305] ignores verse 9 and the first part of verse 10 and he interprets
"none shall pass through it forever and ever" to mean that Edom will no longer
be a center for trade."
}		7. Thebes-Memphis
Dave Butler writes:
"Memphis is the old Egyptian capital city near Cairo.  It is where the
pyramids and sphynx are located.  While I would not call it in any way 
a thriving city, it is definitely ruled by Egyptians.
Thebes is now a prosperous Greek city called Thivia, located northwest of 
Athens.  The greeks do now rule the city."

James J. Lippard writes:
"Ezekiel 29:9-12 says that Egypt will be an "utter waste and desolation" from
Migdol to Syene and to the border of Ethiopia, and all its cities will be
uninhabited for forty years.  It has never happened."
}		8. Nineveh
}		9. Babylon
Jordan (peacock5293%ISCSVAX.UNI.EDU) writes:
"However, I recall that one of his assertions of the validity of
Bible prophesy was the fact that Babylon has remained under a swamp in
fulfillment of ancient prophesies ... However, when the Gulf War broke out, I
read some "end-time prophesy" books (You know -- With every major world even,
somebody has to write up their own interpretation of Bible prophesy that fits
in with today's news events...) that dealt with Babylon ... and that Saddam
Hussein actually *rebuilt* Babylon (or at least a large portion of it) and had
a parade through it with blaring trumpets and dancing and other things that
supposedly would never happen in Babylon again..."
}	       10. Chorazin-Bethsaida-Capernaum
MAT 11:21  Woe unto thee, Chorazin! woe unto thee, Bethsaida! for
if  the  mighty  works,  which were done in you, had been done in
Tyre and Sidon, they would have repented long  ago  in  sackcloth
and ashes.
MAT 11:22  But I say unto you, It shall  be  more  tolerable  for
Tyre and Sidon at the day of judgment, than for you.
MAT 11:23  And thou, Capernaum, which art  exalted  unto  heaven,
shalt  be  brought  down  to hell: for if the mighty works, which
have been done in thee, had been done in  Sodom,  it  would  have
remained until this day.

"Woe unto thee" sounds like anything at all could be accredited.

}	       11. Jerusalem's enlargement
}	       12. Palestine

Excuse me for not being impressed.