HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: hjfeld@acs.bu.edu (harold feld)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: Citrons (was Re: Linen and wool)
Date: 11 Oct 92 05:09:14 GMT
Organization: Boston University, Boston, MA, USA

In article <BvqBA2.18M@gpu.utcs.utoronto.ca> aryk@gpu.utcs.utoronto.ca (A.J.S. Nusbacher) writes:



>You hold the citron together with a bundle which includes a palm stalk, two
>willow switches, and three myrtle twigs.  Every morning of the holiday of
>Sukkot (the Holiday of Living Outside in Huts) except Saturday you make a
>blessing and give them a shake.  During morning prayers there's one part
>where Ashkenazic Jews shake the bundle (called a "lulav" after the palm
>stalk, and "etrog" which means citron) while singing psalms, and Sephardic
>Jews gesture with it as though it were a rifle with a bayonet.

Hardly the most romantic description but I suppose it will suffice.

>Sukkot (which may be the first recorded historical re-creation) is a reminder
>of living in the wilderness in huts during the escape from Egypt.  When the
>holiday is over (it culminates in the slightly drunken celebration of the
>end of the annual cycle of reading the Torah), the citron is either kept wrapped
>in tow until it dries out, and is then used as part of a potpourri; or it is
>combined with citrons collected from one's neighbours and turned into 
>marmalade.
>
>Aryk Nusbacher

Actually, many people I know clove their etrogs and use
it for spices in the Havdala service (service that closes
the Sabbath every week).  I have to resist the urge to pluck
out one of the cloves. :-)
When I was in Israel, I made a batch of etrog mead for Purim.
The batch went bad, so Inever found out if it tastes different 
from lemons.

Yaakov

Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
From: u883161@postoffice.utas.edu.au (Alex Tewes)
Subject: Request for contact
Organization: University of Tasmania
Date: Wed, 14 Oct 1992 05:27:51 GMT

Greetings...

I am trying to get in contact via email or this forum with anybody from 
the Barony of Wintersgate  or from the Shire of Jabal al-Samira.

nothing urgent.


Martin de Mont Blanc (mka Alex Tewes)
u883161@postoffice.utas.edu.au

Shire of Ynys Fawr / Lochac / West

Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
From: mittle@watson.ibm.com (Josh Mittleman)
Subject: Re: regalia trailer
Date: Tue, 13 Oct 92 15:28:55 GMT
Organization: IBM T. J. Watson Research

Greetings from Arval!  Vashti wrote:

> [Ansteorran] Baronies are required to maintain a set of thrones for their
> Majesties. 

Every barony?  By law?  Interesting; does any other kingdom have such a
law?

The East is working on getting a regalia trailer, but we don't have one
yet.  Most of the regalia is maintained, stored, and transported by the
often-overworked Chamberlain, Master G. Emerson True.  That includes
crowns, banners, thrones, and sometimes a pavillion or baldequin.  Other
things that are virtually regalia are privately maintained and transported,
e.g. the royal gate used at Pennsic, the twelve banners for Pennsic Great
Court. 

===========================================================================
Arval Benicoeur                                       mittle@watson.ibm.com
From: salley@niktow.canisius.edu (David Salley)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Long Distance Drives (was Re: Garb Research)
Date: 16 Oct 92 00:56:54 GMT
Organization: Canisius College, Buffalo NY. 14208

Elizabeth "E.B." Braidwood writes:
> I've discovered that netting (making the ground for lacis) is the only 
> handwork that I can do in a moving car and get a satisfactory result.
> (Although I have yet to try needlepoint.) So tell me, what do YOU do in the
> car on a long journey to a far-away event?

Drive! ;-)  Unfortunately, my lady does not have a driver's license.  The  
recession being what it is, we can't always get a car pool together for a 
non-royal event.  My lady generally reads to me to keep me from getting 
highway hypnosis.  When she's tired of reading, we talk.  

                                                       - Dagonell

SCA Persona : Lord Dagonell Collingwood of Emerald Lake, CSC, CK, CTr
Habitat	    : East Kingdom, AEthelmearc Principality, Rhydderich Hael Barony
Disclaimer  : A society that needs disclaimers has too many lawyers.
Internet    : salley@niktow.cs.canisius.edu
USnail-net  : David P. Salley, 136 Shepard Street, Buffalo, New York 14212-2029
Pirates of the Carribean Event - Dec 12 - Rhydderich Hael - Write for details.
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
From: nomad@castle.org (Lee Damon)
Subject: Re: Unescorted Minors at Events
Keywords: minors releases
Organization: The Castle, not-yet-Public Access Un*x Systems; Mahopac, NY
Date: Fri, 16 Oct 1992 02:29:48 GMT

In article <patmcg.719008826@merit.edu> patmcg@home.merit.edu (Pat McGregor) writes:
>  
>And it would also mean that people in our household couldn't take our
>daughter to events we can't attend. A loss, in my book.
>

Sure they can, if you sign a release for them. (Though in PA this is
not the case, sad to say).

I used to have the chronicler for my group publish the minor wavor
(medical and site) in the newsletter every May, with a big sign saying
"COPY THIS FOR FUTURE USE" and an explination of what it was.

I encourage every branch (including kingdom and principality) to do
this. At least once, preferably 3 or 4 times a year.

Get the wavors out there, where they can do some good. (I have a huge
box full that I enherited when a constable moved out of An Tir. I still
have most of them, I can't give the darn things away even to the people
who need 'em! <sigh>).

Christopher Thomas                                          mka Lee Damon
Constable (very much) at large, An Tir
(now surviving in Northpass, EK)                            Mahopac, NY

nomad
-- 
play: castle!nomad or nomad@castle.org                                 \
work: nomad@watson.ibm.com                  - Lee "nomad" Damon -       \
Seneschal; The Castle, Public Access Un*x Systems.                     / \
  - Unashamed -                                                       /   \
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
From: kevin@isi.COM (Keradwc an Cai)
Subject: Mushrooming houppelandes (was: Autocr Dancing from Pictures; Waivers)
Organization: The Internet
Date: Thu, 8 Oct 1992 23:31:36 GMT

Aryk, responding to Dave Aronson, wrote:

| >So tell us, Aryk, why ARE the women dressed like mushrooms???
|
| I'm buggered if I know.  I think some Western woman once saw a picture of
| a 16th century German woman with her skirts hiked up over a belt, and so
| they all do it with their 16th century German dresses.  And it makes them
| look like mushrooms.
|
| Overheard in the West:  "I just found documentation for mushrooming
|			houppelandes!"

'Shrooms aren't so bad. It's the BON-BONs you really have to watch out for.

Keradwc
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
From: schuldy@progress.COM (Mark Schuldenfrei)
Subject: Re: One Oh
Organization: Progress Software Corp.
Date: Fri, 9 Oct 1992 17:19:07 GMT

Gerhun wrote (about there being 12 kingdoms):
  Not so quick :-)  Drachenwald has petitionned the East, and the board
  has approved their request, to go kingdom.   So you need a new 12.

Interesting.  My correspondence with members in Drachenwald, and my
reading of the Drachenwald mailing list shows that no petion has
been circulated.  Neither the April nor July Board meeting minutes
show any discussion of the issue, and the October meeting is to be
held the 17th (this is the 9th).

I am greatly mistaken, or are you making this up?  Or, are you
confusing what happened at Pennsic with reality? (The Prince and
Princess of Drachenwald presented a request to their Majesties of
the East, who accepted it.  It was not a real petition, though,
and the Kingdom of the East doesn't have the authority to create
another Kingdom.)

	Tibor
--
Mark Schuldenfrei (schuldy@progress.com)
[I'm just showin' you my opinions: this ain't a gift]
From: bnostran@lynx.dac.northeastern.edu (Barbara Nostrand)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: Why have the SCA, Inc.?
Date: 15 Oct 92 05:32:17 GMT
Article-I.D.: lynx.1992Oct15.053217.23371
Organization: Northeastern University, Boston, MA. 02115, USA

Nobels!

Aryk suggests that the SCA might be in danger of sliding into Japanese
or Refair recreation.  Actually, I very seriously doubt the former and
I somewhat doubt the latter since it requires a degree to theatrical
commitment that most people in the SCA appear to be unwilling to make.
The real danger to the SCA which has existed since the ancient past
is conism.  The intrusion of SF and Fantasy convention elements into
SCA events is and has been a persistent feature of the SCA.

As for Japan, I see nothing wrong with Japanese households or
predominantly Japanese groups.  The way in which the SCA does things
pretty much prevents it being taken over by any particular ethos.
And, this is particularly true for one which (although there are wonderful
research resources available) is relatively inacessible to the majority
of the membership.

I have heard many make all sorts of Euro-centric complaints.  This seems
to be something of a "religious issue" in the SCA.  I prefer to see
people do real research and recreation in the time frame of the society.
Pretty much every documentable society on the planet was known to 
Western civilization by 1601.  (There may be a few ancient civilizations
which this precludes but I can not think of any off the top of my head.)
I would really like to see 16th centuiry Amerind culture at an SCA
event.  However, I cringe everytime I see people playing mid 19th
century Cheyene at Pennsic.

There are also folks who appear to want to chop off history at the early
end.  I disagree with this as well.  Perhaps in SCA antiquity the scope
statement should have been written as "post migration germanic culture"
which would have ruled out all sorts of things like arabs and celts but
would have definitely and intelligibly limitted things while retaining
an astonishing breath.  However, that genie has long since escaped from
the bottle.  Energy is much better expended (in my opinion) toward
encouraging people to research and recreate elements of actual pre-1600
societies.

					Your Humble Servant
					Solveig Throndardottir
					Totally Ignorant
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
From: habura@vccnorthc.its.rpi.edu (Andrea Marie Habura)
Subject: Re: FRP negative stereotypes
Organization: Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute, Troy, NY
Date: Fri, 16 Oct 1992 12:44:17 GMT

Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: FRP negative stereotypes
Summary: 
Expires: 
Followup-To: 
Distribution: 
Organization: Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute, Troy, NY
Keywords: 

Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: FRP negative stereotypes
Summary: 
Expires: 
Followup-To: 
Distribution: 
Organization: Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute, Troy, NY
Keywords: 
Ekkehard writes about FRP in the SCA.

In my opinion, even what you describe isn't appropriate for an SCA event. In
my mind, what makes the SCA the SCA is not that everyone's playing the same
game, but that everyone is interacting with everyone else. Since I do a bit
of gaming myself, I know that gaming properly precludes interaction with 
anyone who isn't playing. Therefore, what we have is a bunch of gamers either
sitting over in a corner or running through an event, not bothering anyone, but
not interacting either. The rest of the event might as well not be there at 
all. So, I wonder: Why bother to go? You're not learning anything, you're not
contributing, you're not *getting* anything out of it...why pay money to go
sit in a corner and game? You can do that in your living room for free.

I know it isn't because there's no other place to go. A good friend of mine is
a high muckety-muck in the FRPG (he GM'd ten slots at GenCon this year, if that
tells you anything), and he's at a Con every other weekend. (He'd go to more, 
but his wife has this thing about being home occasionally.) Cons are *meant*
to be gamed at. The SCA is for doing medieval recreation. Gaming isn't, as far
as I know, medieval recreation. (If you want to prove otherwise, don't 
"imagine" that Leif Eriksson did war-gaming...do some research. If this sort
of thing was actually done in period, I'd love to hear about it.) In other
words, I feel that gaming is not a bad activity, but SCA events are the wrong
place for it. It's like playing checkers at a tennis match, or writing a novel
during a cocktail party. 

Alison MacDermot
*Ex Ungue Leonem*
From: kuijt@umiacs.umd.edu (David Kuijt)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: Membership Statistics
Date: 9 Oct 92 16:59:09 GMT
Organization: UMIACS, University of Maryland, College Park, MD 20742

Hal posts membership stats:
>              July 1992 
>             For.  Total
...
>Atlantia       1    1348
...
and asks:

>Does anyone know, off hand, *where* the foreign member of Atlantia
>lives?
>
>	--Hal

Egypt, I believe.

Dafydd ap Gwystl


Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
From: peterh@netcom.com (Peter John Harrison)
Subject: Re: Unescorted Minors at Events
Keywords: minors releases
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services  (408 241-9760 guest) 
Date: Wed, 14 Oct 1992 06:02:23 GMT

whheydt@pbhya.PacBell.COM (Wilson Heydt) writes:

>Opening the can of worms a little wider:  What does one do if the teen
>wants to participate and the parents are opposed without understanding
>what the SCA does?

Unfortunately, there is no *legal* way to do anything but turn the kid
away.  In most states, encouraging a minor to disobey his/her parents
(except in matters where said parental instructions are illegal or
defensibly infringe on what rights minors *do* have) is considered
"contributing to the delinquency of a minor."

In your service,
Gregory of Malvern
===========================================================================
Peter John Harrison
peterh@netcom.com
From: whheydt@pbhya.PacBell.COM (Wilson Heydt)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: Decentralization and Minors
Date: 16 Oct 92 18:08:44 GMT
Reply-To: whheydt@PacBell.COM (Wilson Heydt)
Organization: Pacific * Bell, San Ramon, CA

In article <1992Oct16.162215.4669@umr.edu> asparrow@mcs213f.cs.umr.edu (Angelia Sparrow) writes:
>Cariadoc makes a point about increasing paperwork
>in the last 20 years and how a big group is
>as juicier target than many little ones.
>
>Good people if you think the SCA is
>paranoid, you should see a Girl Scout Leader's
>paperwork some time.  When you combine
>the two....

This puts a whole new light on the complaints of too much bureacracy
in the SCA....

On the whole, I think the SCA runs pretty lean.

>Aethelynda, MoA/S who has writer's cramp from her forms.

My I suggest that computers hold out some hope of easing the writers
cramp?  Set up each form and then merge in the names and print them
out.  That way, the only thing that'll need to be *written* will be
signatures.

(This also points out what I think is one of the *real* priveleges of
membership.  :-)  You don't have to fill out the full waiver every
time you go to an event!)

	--Hal

        Hal Ravn, Province of the Mists, West Kingdom
        Wilson H. Heydt, Jr.,  Albany, CA 94706,  510/524-8321 (home)
-- 
Hal Heydt                    |    "Boycott Time-Warner"
Analyst, Pacific*Bell        |         --J. Danforth Quayle
510-823-5447                 |    "... kill all the lawyers."
whheydt@pbhya.PacBell.COM    |         --William Shakespeare
From: mittle@watson.ibm.com (Josh Mittleman)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: What is a Baron
Date: 16 Oct 92 18:57:19 GMT
Organization: IBM T.J. Watson Research Center
Disclaimer: This posting represents the poster's views, not necessarily those of IBM

Greetings from Arval!  When Vashti wrote:

> Here in the Barony of the Steppes, we have at least 3 and sometimes four
> meetings on weeknights per week, in addition to events and special...

I replied:

> What stops you from adding more?  If there are enough people to support a
> dozen meetings on a particular night, why not have a dozen meetings?  I
> think that many of the problems that plague large branches grow from a
> mistaken notion that everybody should play together.  That's silly: Not
> everybody is playing to same game, and some people simply don't like each
> other.

Gwenllian wrote: 

> But....... we LIKE to play together.  

Every single person in the barony?  Are there no sub-groups who'd prefer to
do things their own way?  If so, the Steppes is unlike any large branch
that I've ever seen.  When you get a large group of people together to
share in an activity as broadly-defined as the Society, it is inevitable
that there will eventually be groups with different interests.  Even with
the best motives and with nothing but friendship, differences in opinion
will arise.  Usually, our large groups resolve those differences by making
a choice and allowing one group to do what they want while the other has to
wait for another chance.  Even if no one is upset at having to subordinate
his own interests to someone else's, the group has missed the chance to tap
twice as much creativity!

> And there *are* a few night-conflicts here and there.  It just seems that
> invariably a conflict is forcing *someone* to make a choice between 2
> things they'd like to do.  Sure, most of us are making choices anyway,
> just so we can still have a life squeezed in among the SCA stuff, but in
> general we'd prefer not to have to make a choice on a given night.

Of course not, but what happens when someone wants to start a new regular
workshop?  Or when a sub-group wants to hold its own fighting practice?
Eventually, a large group will grow to the point where it can no longer
reasonably expect everyone to play together all the time; the population
will outgrow the resources available to a completely unified group.  At
that point, you either have to create more resources by allowing sub-groups
some autonomy, or you have to quash somebody's interests.  One of the
responsibilities that comes with the privileges of baronial status is the
management of separate activities in a diverse population.

===========================================================================
Arval Benicoeur                                       mittle@watson.ibm.com
From: UCCXDEM@MVS.UCC.OKSTATE.EDU (UCCXDEM)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: Pickup Trucks (was Re: regalia trailer)
Date: 15 Oct 92 13:39:00 GMT
Organization: Oklahoma State University Computer Center

>In article <19921014082357UCCXDEM@MVS.UCC.OKSTATE.EDU> UCCXDEM <UCCXDEM@MVS.UCC.OKSTATE.EDU> writes:
>>Our little fighter practise group(3 knights, 6 squires and 7 fighters)
>>regularly has 2 times as many trucks as cars show up. One of the knights
>>H.L. Marke
>
>
>Hmm!  2 of the knights and squires don't fight? :-)
>
>
>badger                                      Don Alexandre Lerot d'Avigne
>Jeff Berry                                  Seneschal of Caer Galen, Outlands
Sometimes injuries prevent fighting or they arrive late.
Marke
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
From: mabr@sweden.hp.COM (Morgan the Dreamer Broman)
Subject: Multi-Multi-Dukes
Organization: The Internet
Date: Fri, 9 Oct 1992 07:31:38 GMT


	As far as Drachenwald goes there is only one person who has been
	Prince twice and that is Viscount Reim Hyndll (hope I spelled it right)
	mainly because very few have had the option to try more than once AND
	why be Prince twice anyway ???

	This will definitely change when we go Kingdom, and more native Europe-
	ans start to play. They will be here for a looong time and becoming a
	Duke (for some) would be a lot of fun.

	We will see...!!!
--
HP   : Morgan "the Dreamer" Broman			mabr@sweden.hp.com
SCA  : Morgan deGrey
APD-I: Shade
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
	What is life, but a sequence of fragments of time put
	together in a random fashion, to create eternity...

	[R] Shade
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
Nothing stated here is an official statement by the Hewlett-Packard Corp.
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
From: carole_newson-smith@net.COM (Carole Newson-Smith)
Subject: Fighter Membership
Organization: The Internet
Date: Wed, 7 Oct 1992 09:20:47 GMT

                                           10/7/92      5:10 PM
                                       Fighter Membership
Greetings to Hal Ravn, and also to the Rialto
from Cordelia Toser

Hal, it must have been a while since you worked
behind the list table.  

For the last 3 years I have been a list officer and 
can verify that in the West Kingdom at all levels it
is currently the  responsibility of the list officer to 
check the fighter's cards - both membership and 
fighter authorization.  That  frees up the marshall 
on the  field to initial the list card when s/he has 
inspected the fighter's armour. 

This division of labor is probably due to the fact that 
signing up takes considerably less time than 
inspection, and with the size lists we have, that is
the practice that makes sense.   We had 97 in the
Crown list last Saturday. 

If any running around is to be done in order to get 
someone signed up, the list officer is usually the 
one who does the running.  On Saturday we had
at least 3 fighters who could not produce documents.
One whose wallet had been stolen, one who moved
the previous week and probably had packed his 
cards, and one who got to the site and realized that
his cards were at home.  All three were verified by me
and allowed to fight.  This doesn't count renewals of
expired fighter cards, nor any other special cases 
that I may not be aware of.

In service,

Cordelia Toser
Southern Shores, Mists, West




Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
From: bnostran@lynx.dac.northeastern.edu (Barbara Nostrand)
Subject: Re: Stereotypes; Legends; Bureaucracy; History; Dance
Organization: Northeastern University, Boston, MA. 02115, USA
Date: Thu, 15 Oct 1992 14:52:28 GMT

Nobles!

Master Justin recently described his rule of thumb for weeding out
certain post period dances.  I am puzzled by this rule since it
seems to exclude Horses Bransel which is described in Orchesography
by Thoinot Arbeau:

	Doube a gaul.  Double a droit.  Double a gaul. Double a droit.
	Double a gaulche.  Double a droit.  Double a gaul.  Double a droit.
	Two tappements droits by the man.
	Pied largi droit
	Pieds joints
	Pied largi gauche
	Pied droit approche
	Pied largi gauceh
	Pieds joints
	Two tappements droits by the woman
	Pied largi droit
	Pied joints
	Pied largi gauche
	Pied droit approche
	Pied largi gauche
	Pieds joints
	This done, the dancers join both hands again and repeat
	from the beginning.

An interesting feature of this tablature is that both the men and
the women are described as turning to the left.  If both turns
travel even slightly, each dancer naturally moves one half position
in the oposite direction and obtains a new couple.  While this is
weak evidence, it certainly offers the possibility of organized
partner exchange.  Beyond that, Countess Mara has recently cited
several texts describing what is known localy as "kidnapping" so
couple exchange does appear to be a strong possibility at least
in this dance.

					Your Humble Servant
					Solveig Throndardottir
					Totally Ignorant


From: Ruth.Woodring@f4229.n124.z1.fidonet.org (Ruth Woodring)
Sender: FredGate@ocitor.fidonet