HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: ellon@ADS.COM (Ellon St. Croix)
Newsgroups: soc.couples
Subject: Re:  wedding etiquette
Date: 22 Jul 92 18:42:27 GMT
Organization: Wild Bill & BabyCat's House of Many Pleasures


 tfarmer@cavebbs.welly.gen.nz (Thomas Farmer) writes:
 I said:
>>   I have to go with Vickie on this.  Being a recent bride myself, 
>>   I can guarentee that if I EVER received a computer generated thank 
>>   you note for a wedding/shower gift, that couple would NEVER receive
>>   another gift from me.  If I took the time to go out and buy
>>   something especially for them, or even if I just wrote them a
>>   check, then they DAMN WELL better sit down and hand write me a 
>>   personalized thank you note. 
>
>What if they find handwriting very hard? I write exclusively with
>computers and find handwriting very difficult now.

     No one said it had to be done in calligraphy, even a nice 
     neat printing job is better than a computer generated thank you. 

>They were simply too messy, too disjointed, too incoherent.
 
     Usually when you sit down to write a thank you, you give some 
     thought to what you want to say before actually writing it. 
     This would elimiate the incoherent part.  The messy and
     disjointed part I would have to say SLOW DOWN, under *most* 
     normal circumstances if you write slower it will be more 
     legible.  Believe me...I didn't want to sit down and write 
     300 thank you notes, because my writing at best is *chicken 
     scratch*...but...well, etiquette demands it.

>Personally I'd rather get an amusing, witty, personal, and readable
>letter written on computer rather than a messy and stilted handwritten
>note.


Why would a hand written note not be, "amusing, witty, or personal"???


   I guess this is just one of those things that people are 
   going to disagree on.  

   
   Again, MHO!


   Ellon

--
Nothin' feels as good, as good as us together.  Nothin' in the world,
no, there ain't nothin' better than this... NEW LOVE! Always feels 
like a new love. Every touch is feelin' so much like the very first
touch. It's like a new love, a new love........  WCS & ESS 4/18/92
From: jclark@sdcc3.ucsd.edu (John Clark)
Newsgroups: soc.couples
Subject: Re: More wedding etiquette
Date: 23 Jul 92 18:13:23 GMT
Organization: University of California, San Diego

In article <22600@oasys.dt.navy.mil> goldberg@oasys.dt.navy.mil (Mark Goldberg) writes:
+In soc.couples, bweiss@cs.arizona.edu (Beth Weiss) writes:
+>> goldberg@oasys.dt.navy.mil (Mark Goldberg) writes:
+>>The source I am down on is the so-called "Miss Manners" (Judith Martin).
+>>I think her orientation is stodgy, arbitrary, and stiff.
+>
+>I think Miss Manners is funny, honest, and a great source.
+
+It is interesting that she claims to be an authority on marriage while 
+still being "Miss" and not "Mrs."

And what word does 'Miss' and "Mrs." stand as abbreviations for, if
not 'Mistress'. So in ether case is is 'Mistress' Manners.
-- 

John Clark
jclark@ucsd.edu
Newsgroups: soc.couples
From: cshertze@silver.ucs.indiana.edu (Candace Shertzer)
Subject: Re:  wedding etiquette
Organization: Indiana University
Date: Tue, 21 Jul 1992 19:47:03 GMT


I have a wedding etiquette question.  How appropriate is it for a couple
to have a small wedding (just immediate family) and then have a "blow
out" reception.  Would it be more appropriate if the inventation said
something in about gifts not being required?

Any suggestions?

Thanks,
Candace
Organization: Penn State University
Date: Wed, 22 Jul 1992 19:45:27 EDT
From: Sonja Kueppers <SEK@psuvm.psu.edu>
Newsgroups: soc.couples
Subject: Re: waiting 'til marriage

In article <1992Jul22.050109.13003@murdoch.acc.Virginia.EDU>,
jlb6s@poe.acc.Virginia.EDU (Jennifer Leigh Bancroft) says:
>
>                    Also, tell me your views on waiting or not.

It wouldn't occur to me to wait until marriage to have sex.  I have
no religious beliefs that tell me not to have sex before marriage.
I believe that STDs and pregancy can be effectively prevented through
the use of condoms, dental dams, and birth control devices.  I know that
sex is both enjoyable and powerful.

However, I think that you should do whatever makes you comfortable.
If, for whatever reason, you don't want to have sex before marriage,
then don't!  :-)

-Sonja
------
SEK@psuvm.psu.edu SEK@PSUVM.BITNET
Love is not enough.  It must be the foundation, the cornerstone --
but not the complete structure.  It is much too pliable, too yielding.
                                            - Bette Davis
From: kleim@bass.bu.edu (Kathryn Kleiman)
Newsgroups: soc.couples
Subject: Re: Wedding Music
Date: 22 Jul 92 00:04:58 GMT
Reply-To: chuck@novusinc.novus.com
Followup-To: soc.couples
Distribution: usa
Organization: Boston University

There are several 'standard' pieces that are played; 'Trumpet Voluntary'
by Jeremiah Clarke; 'Prince of Denmark March' by Purcell... in fact, much
of the Baroque trumpet repetoire is suitable.

btw, no flames about 'Trumpet Voluntary' - it really was Clarke, not Purcell,
who wrote it... unless I've got it backwards :-)

For recessing, I've played 'Rejouissance' from Handel's _Music for the Royal
Fireworks_.

Chuck Stern
Posting from kleim@bass.bu.edu
From: 33s@oasys.dt.navy.mil (Angie Brvenik)
Newsgroups: soc.couples
Subject: Long Distance Relationship
Date: 31 Jul 92 14:46:18 GMT
Reply-To: 33s@oasys.dt.navy.mil (Angie Brvenik)
Organization: Carderock Division, NSWC, Bethesda, MD


I need some advice on how to handle a long distance relationship.  My
other half is in Florida temporarily (7 -8 months) while Im here in Maryland.

HELP!

- Angie
From: sandell@chowning.CNMAT.Berkeley.EDU (Gregory J. Sandell)
Newsgroups: soc.couples
Subject: Re:  Father Fixation
Date: 31 Jul 1992 00:50:45 GMT
Organization: University of California, Berkeley
Distribution: world,local
NNTP-Posting-Host: chowning.cnmat.berkeley.edu

In article <1992Jul30.162405.783@miavx3.mid.muohio.edu>  
jabolliger@miavx3.mid.muohio.edu writes:

> Gentlemen;  so far this discussion has been in the men's room, so what I
> am doing is adding a little female perspective.
> Reminder:  What seems to be bothering Rajiv is his wife has a strong  
relation
> ship with her father.  One gets the impression that he wants to be  
"fixated 
> upon, or attached to himself.  I do not agree with Greg's comfirmation  
that Rajiv's
> wife's, father is over stepping the bounds of marital propriety.  How  
can
> one reach this conclusion given we have heard only one side of this  
story?  

If I remember right, Rajiv's complaint is that his wife is considering her  
father's opinion to come first when it comes to just about any decision  
regarding their own immediate family (i.e. Rajiv, his wife, and their  
children).  Now that's giving a lot of power to an outsider.  As an  
analogy, suppose your daughter decided what college she wanted to go to  
and you approved.  But your husband said that the choice was bad because  
his father said so.  You don't think that being pressured to change your  
opinion, or to go against what you think is correct, is overstepping the  
bounds of marital propriety?

Rajiv's father-in-law already got his chance to raise a family.  Now he  
should offer helpful advice, not try to raise his daughter's family.   
Rajiv's wife should be a grownup now and trust the partnership of her  
husband in decision making.  If she doesn't, she shouldn't have married  
him or maybe she wasn't ready to leave home.  Or maybe the situation can  
be helped with counseling.  But it doesn't sound very nice for Rajiv.
--
Greg Sandell
Research Fellow, Center for New Music and Audio Technologies (CNMAT)
sandell@cnmat.cnmat.berkeley.edu or sandell@garnet.berkeley.edu
Newsgroups: soc.couples
From: cmclark@dri.com (Chip Clark)
Subject: Re: Need help: avoiding jealousy when making new friends
Reply-To: cmclark@novell.com
Organization: Desktop Systems Group/Novell, Monterey CA/USA
Date: Tue, 28 Jul 92 00:04:53 GMT

barks@garnet.berkeley.edu () writes:


]I am in a committed, long term relationship with my SO, and we have
]pledged exclusivity to each other.  We love each other, and our sex
]life is pretty exciting (knock on wood).  I'm male, by the way.

]We make lots of friends together:  sometimes we make friends with couples
]we've met, sometimes there's a single person we both make friends with at
]the same time.  But I'm slightly at a loss as to what to do when I meet a
]woman at a party or wherever and I find that there's a special connection
]there for friendship.

]Specifically, I just met a woman at a dance that both my SO and I were
]at.  Not only did we enjoy talking to each other a great deal, but we
]found each other very attractive.  I let her know about my SO in the
]course of our conversation.  She gave me her business card, and I've
]since called her to continue our interesting conversation.  We've
]put all the cards on the table, acknowledging that I was attached
]and that she wouldn't be predatory, yet that we found each other
]attractive.  In a short space of time, we've made ourselves fairly
]close confidants...we've told each other quite a bit about our lives,
]and what's important to ourselves.  

]She is urging me to tell my SO about this friendship we've formed,
]and she really wants to get to know her, as well.  Of course I agree
]with her that this is a smart and responsible thing to do, but 
]because there's attraction involved, I find the situation socially
]awkward.  My SO is in a vulnerable stage in her life right now...we
]are in a new part of the country, and she's job hunting.  I'm afraid
]that she will be jealous when she sees that I've formed a kind of 
]relationship with someone, even if she totally believes me that no
]romance has been involved.  (She knows me well enough to make extremely
]accurate judgments about who I am attracted to.)  If this leads her
]to dislike my friend, then I'll have a conflict, which probably would
]have to be resolved by putting the relationship with my SO first.

]Kind of an ethical dilemma here.  SURELY it's not necessary to "put the
]blinders on" once you are in a relationship and run away every time you
]find an attractive person of the opposite sex in your vicinity, right?
]It seems the best thing to do is try to be conscious of attraction and
]deal with it in a mature way...but it's no simple trick to negotiate this
]between three people!

]Gary
]-- 

I have never found the will power to resist what I know in the back of 
my head I want - een beyond the consequences.

don't do it!!!

If you're attracted - you have already gone to far by being will to maintain
a secrecy (although slightly thrilling) about this new relationship.


Chip
From: bweiss@cs.arizona.edu (Beth Weiss)
Newsgroups: soc.couples
Subject: Re:  wedding etiquette
Date: 22 Jul 92 00:28:44 GMT
Organization: U of Arizona CS Dept, Tucson

> ellon@ADS.COM (Ellon St. Croix) writes:
> ilana@kiowa.scd.ucar.edu (Ilana Stern) writes:

>>We hand-wrote invitations to the wedding on the reception invitations for
>>our family and those few friends who were travelling a long way. 
>
>      This is exactly the way it should be done.  With the only 
>      exception being, maybe to go ahead and order ingraved invites 
>      for those 20 or so people you invite to the wedding only.

Engraving is a way of mass-producing handwriting.  There is nothing
wrong with handwriting _anything_, especially formal invitations.

--
--Beth Weiss
bweiss@cs.arizona.edu
From: danoc@earlybird.Eng.Sun.COM (Dan O'Connell [CONTRACTOR])
Newsgroups: soc.couples
Subject: Re: Wedding Music
Date: 24 Jul 92 00:22:58 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: Wedding Music Unlimited
NNTP-Posting-Host: earlybird

(Gina Pepitone) writes:

>Does anyone out there have any ideas for a wedding processional
>(please don't say "Here comes the Bride")


How about: "Another One Bites the Dust"?  ;-)

D.
From: squire@sybil.cs.Buffalo.EDU (Debora Squire)
Newsgroups: soc.couples
Subject: More wedding etiquette
Date: 21 Jul 92 17:12:11 GMT
Organization: State University of New York at Buffalo/Comp Sci
Originator: squire@sybil.cs.Buffalo.EDU

Hello everyone!

First, let me share my joy - he proposed this weekend!  It was picture
perfect - on his knee, in a gazebo outside our favorite restaurant, the
sun was setting, and the ducks were on the pond behind us.

Neither one of us have stopped smiling since.  Now, my question - can
anybody recommend a good wedding organizer?  My local bookstore has several,
so before purchasing one, I thought I'd see if anyone can recommend one.

Also, this is my second marriage.  Is it proper for my father to "give
me away" again?  Is there some other phrasing besides "giving me away"?

Thanks for your input!  (Wedding date - sometime in Fall '93)

--debbie
Newsgroups: soc.couples
From: aland@chaos.cs.brandeis.edu (Alan D.)
Subject: Re: waiting 'til marriage
Reply-To: aland@cs.brandeis.edu
Organization: As little as possible
Date: Wed, 22 Jul 1992 19:59:00 GMT

elle@kimbark.uchicago.edu (Ellen Keyne Seebacher) writes:
>jlb6s@poe.acc.Virginia.EDU (Jennifer Leigh Bancroft) writes:

>>We haven't had sex yet... because we bot want to wait until we're 
>>married....  Instead, we've come up with numerous ways to satisfy our
>>desire together..ahem. ;)

>It sounds like you equate the word "sex" with penile-vaginal intercourse.
>If so, why is that qualitatively different from "ahem"?

Because of religious and societal prejudices related to the sexual act
of intercourse.
Organization: Penn State University
Date: Fri, 24 Jul 1992 18:42:50 EDT
From: Sonja Kueppers <SEK@psuvm.psu.edu>
Newsgroups: soc.couples
Subject: Re: waiting 'til marriage
 <1992Jul24.133439.6449@cbnewsi.cb.att.com>

In article <1992Jul24.133439.6449@cbnewsi.cb.att.com>, bicker@cbnewsi.cb.att.com
(The Resource, Poet-Magician of Quality) says:
>
>In article <1992Jul23.164321.16037@city.cs> lionel@cs.city.ac.uk (Lionel Tun)
>writes:
[asks if virgins have happier/longer marriages.]

>So would I, but don't combine happiness and longevity!  I believe they
>can be and are often mutually exclusive.

Hmm.  I would think that marriages where both partners entered as virgins
probably do last longer.  I would theorize this based on the idea that
the same kind of people who would be virgins at the time of marriage (often
sincere Christians in our culture) would be people who highly valued
a lifelong marriage.

I'm not sure how one would quantify happiness, however.  I would like to
think that all marriages are happy, though of course this isn't actually
true.

I'm also thoroughly convinced that longevity and happiness often do go
hand in hand.  I don't think I know anyone who has been married in excess
of 20 years who would not say that they were satisfied with their marriage.
(While their marriages may not be what would make *me* happy, that is
 absolutely none of my affair.)

-Sonja
------
SEK@psuvm.psu.edu SEK@PSUVM.BITNET
Love is not enough.  It must be the foundation, the cornerstone --
but not the complete structure.  It is much too pliable, too yielding.
                                            - Bette Davis
Newsgroups: soc.couples
From: ilana@kiowa.scd.ucar.edu (Ilana Stern)
Subject: Re: More wedding etiquette
Organization: NCAR/UCAR
Date: Tue, 21 Jul 1992 21:38:22 GMT

In article <Brr14C.n43@acsu.buffalo.edu>, squire@sybil.cs.Buffalo.EDU (Debora Squire) writes:
  
 > Also, this is my second marriage.  Is it proper for my father to "give
 > me away" again?  Is there some other phrasing besides "giving me away"?

I never liked either the phrasing or the concept of "giving me away."
We followed an idea from the book "Words for Your Wedding" which extended
this concept into the idea of both the bride and the groom leaving their 
parents' families and forming their own family which is separate from
the parents but still connected to them.  We had our parents stand (we
didn't have a processional, we just stood up with the officiant in our
living room in front of family and a few friends) and say that they 
would encourage us in our relationship and welcome us as a couple in
their homes, something like that -- emphasizing that we were still in
our respective families but forming a new relationship which must be
respected. 

-- 
/\        Ilana Stern DoD#009 | Whoever first said, "Things are seldom as they 
  \_][    ilana@ncar.ucar.edu | seem," was wrong.  Things are usually as they
      \_______________________| seem.  Otherwise, they wouldn't seem that way.
From: annan@vax.oxford.ac.uk
Newsgroups: soc.couples
Subject: Re: waiting 'til marriage
Date: 24 Jul 92 11:46:16 GMT
Organization: Oxford University VAXcluster

In article <1992Jul23.164321.16037@city.cs>, lionel@cs.city.ac.uk (Lionel Tun) writes:
> IMHO it is a good idea to wait until marriage, and if that is
> what you have decided, good for you!
> 
> I would be interested in statistics comparing happiness and
> longevity of marriages where both partners entered as
> virgins against where one or both had had previous sexual
> encounters.
> 
> --
> Lionel Tun   (lionel@cs.city.ac.uk)
> Vision Group, City University, London, EC1V 0HB. 071-477 8000 x 3889

Recent statistics in the papers showed couples who lived together before
marriage were more likely to divorce than couples who didn't. But of course
this doesn't imply causality.

Presumably the same applies to the above enquiry.

-- 
James Annan.
                [--------------------------------------]
                [  "The only good Tory is a lavatory"  ]
                [--------------------------------------]
From: gld@cunixb.cc.columbia.edu (Gary L Dare)
Newsgroups: soc.couples
Subject: Re:  wedding etiquette
Date: 21 Jul 92 20:38:12 GMT
Reply-To: gld@cunixb.cc.columbia.edu (Gary L Dare)
Organization: Curious Goods (formerly Louis Vendredi Antiques)

cshertze@silver.ucs.indiana.edu (Candace Shertzer) writes:
>
>How appropriate is it for a coupl eto have a small wedding (just
>immediate family) and then have a "blow out" reception.

My girlfriend and I may be forced to do that since we'll marry in
either New York City or Northern California, but she's from Munich
(Germany) with parents living in Italy (but could be back in the
States by this time next year) while I'm from Winnipeg (western
Canada) but the bulk of my Canadian friends are in Toronto, Ottawa 
and Montreal.  One of my ideas is to have a travelling roadshow to 
hit all the various spots (with roadies and all ... just kidding!).
Realistically, it'd be a small U.S. wedding followed by receptions
in Winnipeg and Munich to coincide with the holiday season (and to
resolve any legal questions regarding our status and working over
the autumn period).

Also, I have an aversion to wedding reception dinners and would rather
have a dessert and booze ... errr, wine and cheese reception anyways.

gld
--
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Je me souviens ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Gary L. Dare				Elections 1992-93:
> gld@cunixD.cc.columbia.EDU		* Jean Chretien (Canada)
> gld@cunixc.BITNET			* H. Ross Perot (USA)
From: HOLMES@VAXT.LLNL.GOV ("WHAT, ME WORRY?")
Newsgroups: soc.couples
Subject: Re: Survey
Date: 23 Jul 92 03:59:00 GMT

>From: mborgerding@desire.wright.edu
> Questions 1-13 deleted...

answers:yes,yes,yes,yes,yes,yes,yes,yes,yes,1hr,2,2/w,6,30,>50,>100,
        caucation(sp),male,white
12. refer to above answers

When I do a survey, I believe in order. So all answers are given yes/no,
numerical, then alphabetical. I hope this helps.

DkH

>-Mark just-curious B 
Curious HELL, you sound down right horney!!!
Xref: sparky soc.couples:3478 soc.women:14022 soc.men:13641
From: charleen@ADS.COM (Charleen Bunjiovianna)
Newsgroups: soc.couples,soc.women,soc.men
Subject: Re: wedding etiquette
Date: 23 Jul 92 18:19:17 GMT
Followup-To: soc.couples
Organization: The Original Estrogen-Crazed Lust Bunnies

In article <1992Jul23.172653.19259@cco.caltech.edu> peri@cco.caltech.edu (Michal Leah Peri) writes:
>
>(I wish we didn't have this silly custom of changing names upon marriage.
>It really does make everything so much more complicated!)

I suppose that's one way to look at it.

In this era of everyone-retains-their-surname, with casual
friends or new acquaintances, knowing whether or not a couple is
married is problematic and complicates things socially.  I've even been
on the receiving end of negative comments from people who thought the
world somehow "should just know" that they were married, even though
they'd retained individual surnames.

You might say that your marital status is your own business and in
some sense that is correct, but if you're going to interact
socially at all with other people, it does come into play, and if you
retain your own surnames, there will be occasions when you're making
people guess.  Of course, you shouldn't let this prevent you from
doing what you please.

Charleen

[Followups redirected to soc.couples -- please, soc.men has way too much
 crossposted traffic as is!  Thanks.]
--
I'm not fat; I'm gravitationally-challenged.
Newsgroups: soc.couples,soc.women,soc.men
From: ellon@ADS.COM (Ellon St. Croix)
Subject: Re: wedding etiquette
Organization: Wild Bill & BabyCat's House of Many Pleasures
Date: Tue, 21 Jul 1992 17:27:49 GMT


>[ description deleted of mailing out thank you notes immediately after the
>  wedding]
>
>Can someone please explain the belief that thank you notes should only be 
>mailed AFTER the wedding, even for gifts that were given many months or
>weeks in advance?  Sometimes people imply that this practice is merely
>permissible;  others state that prompt before-wedding thank yous are
>incorrect.  Please explain your reasoning.
>



   It is my belief that thank you notes should be mailed upon 
   receipt of the gift.  If it is a wedding gift, then you should 
   use a plain white note with thank you written on the front in 
   gold or silver.  You should NOT use your informals with you married
   name until after the wedding.  Both you and your spouse/fiance
   should sign ALL thank you notes.

   As far as I'm concerned the ONLY time it is acceptable to delay 
   sending the thank you is for gifts received at the
   wedding/reception. 


   IMHO.

   Ellon (who finished mailing ALL her thank you's within 1 week of
          the wedding...) St. Croix


--
Nothin' feels as good, as good as us together.  Nothin' in the world,
no, there ain't nothin' better than this... NEW LOVE! Always feels 
like a new love. Every touch is feelin' so much like the very first
touch. It's like a new love, a new love........  WCS & ESS 4/18/92 
Newsgroups: soc.couples