HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: mc@vicorp.com (Mark Charalambous)
Subject: Re: Keith and Donna
Organization: V. I. Corporation, Northampton, Massachusetts
Date: Fri, 31 Jul 1992 20:31:08 GMT

"st. stephen" <ST402836@brownvm.brown.edu> writes:


>From: mc@vicorp.com (Mark Charalambous)

>|The lasting contribution of these guys is all those horrible sounding
>|board tapes from 73 and 74 that have a sound that could be described as
>|"The Grateful Dead featuring Keith and Donna". Ever notice how the piano
>|is by far the loudest instrumnent in those recordings? And right up front,
>|too.

>    Yeah, I agree with you, and i think it's criminal.  So I've started
>this program where I intend to rid the world of all those horrible sounding
>boards, especially from '73 and '74, but also right up to '78.  Want to
>help out?  Just send me any copies you have in your collection and I'll
>make sure that they won't bother the world anymore.  Send 'em to:
>Steve Hall

>    Since I know how strongly you feel about this Mark, I'm sure I'll
>be seeing that package from you real soon.

Okay, but. There are good audience tapes out there. Naturally they have
the sound the way it sounded in the audience coming from the stage.
I look for those. And then ther are radio shows which are the best bet
from the K&D era. F'rinstance 11/7/71. 

But don't hold your breath waiting for my K&D-era boards -- I'm going to hold 
onto those tapes. One day when the technology's here and I have the equipment, 
I'll get those tapes fixed and make 'em listenable.
From: zane@ddsw1.mcs.com (Sameer Parekh)
Subject: Re: Tipper Update!
Organization: ddsw1.MCS.COM Contributor, Chicago, IL
Date: Tue, 21 Jul 1992 06:14:21 GMT
X-Disclaimer:  Material posted in this article is the sole responsibility of
                the poster and does not represent MCSNet or the system owners.

In article <14f16bINN1l0@stanley.cis.Brown.EDU> ST702459@brownvm.brown.edu (Jordan Schwartz) writes:
>I think that it is a dangerous over-simplification of the situation to say
>that Tipper is "against free speech". I mean, we all agree that noone has
>the right to yell "fire" in a crowded theatre. Now we take the song
>"cop-killer" by Ice-T. Many would argue that he is simply venting his
	I think "Cop Killer" is more like shouting fire in a crowded theater
WHICH IS ON FIRE!

>justifiable anger against a bigotted society. However, how would we feel if
>the song was called "Jew Killer" or "Head Killer". There are clearly some
	Jews or Heads as a group have not killed people just because of
their race.

>cases where we can see intuitively that it is abuse of "free speech" to
>use the media to spread "dangerous" ideas. Of course, this begs the question
>"who defines 'dangerous'"? Well, someone HAS to, otherwise cross-burnings,
>etc. will be legal and common. Now, at present, I don't have a great deal
	A cross-burning, as long as it is on property owned by the person
doing the cross-burning, should be legal. (As long as it doesn't endanger
others-- sparks igniting other buildings, etc., etc.)

>of faith in the good judgement of our elected officials, but I don't think
>that this means we should simply dismiss the idea of controlling what kinds
>hateful words impressionable youth are exposed to. Tipper, I believe,
>supported warning labels, not necessarily outright bans. While I think that
>in practice this would probably be counterproductive (consider how you would
>prefer to see an R movie rather than a G movie...), I do believe that free
>speech is a privilege that should not be abused. By encouraging hateful
	Free speech is not a privilege. It is a RIGHT!
	
>and demeaning attitudes towards women, groups like 2 Live Crew are abusing
>the American system and giving free speech a bad name. Let's save our
>amendments for when it matters, such as political issues. We can all see that
>2 Live Crew and Ice-T do not deserve our support.
>
	I don't care if Ice T deserves our support. I haven't heard the
song, so I can't say whether it is good music or not. I would think,
however, that Ice-T's "cop killer" is a political song, advocating violent
retribution against the oppresive government. (Granted, I think violence is
wrong, but that's what it is advocating..)  (I *have* read the lyrics.)

-- 
  _Sameer_Parekh_zane@ddsw1.MCS.COM_zane@infopls.chi.il.us__________________
 / STOP The War on Rights          | | Restore liberty in the United States \
 | "Specialization is for Insects" | | Vote Libertarian 1992          ______/
 \________- Robert A. Heinlein_____/ \_ap.2363@cupid.sai.com (anon)__/
From: lstein@adobe.com (Larry Stein)
Newsgroups: rec.music.gdead
Subject: Re: 9/2/77 Englishtown (to the Donna-bashers)
Date: 31 Jul 92 17:53:59 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: Adobe Systems

In article <1992Jul29.204253.11725@dirac.physics.sunysb.edu>, jeff@dirac.physics.sunysb.edu (Jeff Althoff) writes:
> 
> 
>    IMHO 9/2/77 Englishtown has good Donna harmonies on Looks Like
>    Rain. 
> 
>    My guess is that the Donna-bashers are for the most part folks
>    who got on the bus either before they joined or after they split.
>    Just like the Brent-bashers when Brent joined.....
>    I enjoyed all the shows I saw where Keith and Donna played ---
>    Donna left the stage for Dark Star, though.

       Not me.  I got on the bus when the Godchaux's were in the
       band.  When the band played quietly enough where Donna could
       hear herself, then she was fine.  The other 80% of the time
       I wanted to strangle her.  IMHO, the timbre of her voice did
       not fit in with Jerry's and Bob's and when she sang out of
       tune, it was like nails on a chalkboard.

       A friend told me a story about this when he was at one of the
       Berkeley Community Theater shows in 1972.  At that time, the
       band would usually take about 10 minutes to tune up between
       songs.  At one point, Donna came up to the mike and said
       something to the effect, "Well, what's your feeling about
       having a chick in the band?" and a voice from the audience
       said "Fine, but not you!".  If she had done this at Winterland
       in 1977, I think a couple of thousand people would have said
       this, including me.

       Believe me, after experiencing the decline of Keith and Donna
       in 1978, Brent was a breath of fresh air.  Bashing him was the
       furthest thing from my mind.

       --larry
> 
>    This is of course, subjective

     It always is  %*)
 
>    Jeff A.
> -- 
Newsgroups: rec.music.gdead
From: dittrich@milton.u.washington.edu (Dave Dittrich)
Subject: Re: spin docs and bela fleck
Organization: University of Washington
Distribution: pnw
Date: Wed, 29 Jul 1992 19:25:05 GMT

FYI for those in the PNW, Spin Docs and Bela Fleck are among the many
who will be at Bumbershoot in Seattle in early September.  Also I
remember seeing the names, John Lee Hooker, They Might Be Giants,
Michelle Shocked, The Crazy 8's, and Up With People (only kidding on the
last one! :-).  Special tickets will be available this year ($25/day)
that guarantee entry to shows in the Coliseum and Opera House.

Watch your local paper (or the Rocket).
Newsgroups: rec.music.gdead
From: Steve Golston <ASSSG@asuacad.bitnet>
Subject: GD Hour in Phoenix??
Reply-To: ASSSG@asuacad.bitnet
Organization: The Internet
Date: Mon, 27 Jul 1992 21:12:43 GMT

Attention all Arizona heads:  We might just have a chance to do something about
the deplorable (IMHO) state of radio in the Phoenix area.  Station KMXX (101.5-
-currently adult contemporary mix-mash) will be changing format and call
letters on Friday, July 31.  They will now be KZON and will be playing a range
of rock/"alternative"(what's that mean anyway?) music.  It sounds like they
are truly going to make an attempt to bring some variety to the airwaves--and
I've been here just long enough to have forgotten what "variety" means. . .)
They're hiring Mary McCann ("The Bone Mama") and purportedly will be allowing
the dj's to put together their own shows (could this be real?)

This sounds like a great chance for us to get together and see the GD Hour
scheduled here in the Valley of the Sun!  I've contacted David Gans, so he
knows about this new possibilty.

We are going to need a lot of phone calls and letters in all probability, so
here's some of the vital info:

Station:  KZON (101.5-FM)  General manager:  Mike Jorgenson
Program director:  Jim Trapp    Address: 4745 N. 7th St. Suite 135, Phx, 85014
Phone:  602-234-1015

Gimmee a break--this is a metopolitan area of over 1.7 million people! We gotta
get this thing done!!

****************************************************************
Steve Golston
ASSSG@ASUACAD
Arizona State University
"Greet the morning air with song. . . .
****************************************************************
Newsgroups: rec.music.gdead
From: "Doug Budzak" <DBUDZAK@IVY>
Subject: personal for Seth Gordon #2
Reply-To: DBUDZAK@IVY
Organization: The Internet
Date: Wed, 29 Jul 1992 19:43:34 GMT

Hi Seth - I had your message on my answering machine when I returned
from vacation, but my wife accidently erased it. I do believe you
wanted to talk to me about 2-14-70 & 6-18-74. If you want to try giving
me another call, here's the #'s again: (317) 921-4792 days, (317)
253-3251 eves. Hopefully I'll be around next time!
From: jjfink@skcla.monsanto.com
Newsgroups: rec.music.gdead
Subject: Re: STRAW POLL RESULTS!
Date: 31 Jul 92 10:06:23 GMT
Organization: Searle, Skokie, IL
Nntp-Posting-User: cjpull

In article <1992Jul30.213253.1538@uvaarpa.Virginia.EDU>, Phydeaux <reb@ingres.com> writes:
> The following people each received one vote:
...
> NOBODY (Who will solve all our problems? Nobody! Who will lower taxes? Nobody!)

There is a man in (I think) Nebraska who changed his name to Absolutely
Nobody.  Mr. Nobody is running for some public office there (it might have
been vice governor?), on the platform that if elected, he'd eliminate the
office. :^)

Joel
-- 
jjfink@skcla.monsanto.com
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Portions of the preceding were recorded.  As for the rest, I quite fear that
 it was all in your mind" -- Alfred Hitchcock
From: 7039P@navpgs.bitnet (Emil Petruncio)
Newsgroups: rec.music.gdead
Subject: Re: Train Lyrics
Date: 28 Jul 92 19:25:53 GMT
Reply-To: 7039P@navpgs.bitnet
Organization: The Internet

Train wheels runnin' through the back o' my memory...

Thanks a bunch for all the file searches and suggestions... over 30
songs (if you include covers and JGB tunes)!!!  Sorry Wharfie, I didn't
count your Z-rated input... very imaginative, though 8*). I found one
more the other day, while listening to good ol' Operator:

 my rider left upon the Midnight Flyer, singin' like the summer breeze

All aboard for the next thread... Z-rated lyrics!  (Just kiddin')

Emil
Newsgroups: rec.music.gdead
From: "Q 8^)" <castro@alm.admin.usfca.edu>
Subject: RE: Dead-Flames Digest #63
Reply-To: castro@alm.admin.usfca.edu
Organization: The Internet
Date: Tue, 21 Jul 1992 23:09:28 GMT

Hey Now,

A friend of mine has a Dead tape on which a motorcycle (presumably
in the audience) is reved up in a rhythmic pattern resembling
the claps to Not Fade Away.  The audience picks up this rhythm and
eventually the Dead play the song.  What show is this and what is the 
situation behind it? Any thoughts?

Ciao, 
Jeff
Newsgroups: rec.music.gdead
From: dittrich@milton.u.washington.edu (Dave Dittrich)
Subject: Re: First and LAST visit to a Grateful Dead Concert. Yuk!
Keywords: Dead-Heads, filthy, moronic, drugs, deplorable
Organization: University of Washington
Date: Wed, 22 Jul 1992 00:30:34 GMT

bz206@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Joseph Hack) writes:

>"What kind of man would bring a Porsche to a dead-head concert?"

Wow!  The Porche Guy returns!  I've read of the infamous Porsche Guy in
the FAQ(tm), and as this IS the Internet I new if I waited long enough
the post would return like a long lost dream! :-)
From: WS3X@cornellc.bitnet (Bill Sloan)
Newsgroups: rec.music.gdead
Subject: Tipper & Nassau County Cops
Date: 24 Jul 92 20:01:31 GMT
Reply-To: WS3X@cornellc.bitnet
Organization: The Internet

!eric!, you forgot to tell that guy that Corrina is really about Tipper ;-);-)

Yes, Nassau County cops are some of the biggest, fattest pigs on earth.
The Dead stopped playing there for a couple of years because they got tired of
the numerous busts that always seem to occur there.  you'd think w/ all the
concerts scences that  they must see they'd appreciate the Dead scence (althoug
h it is certainly is high energy at Nassau) but that county is the biggest Repu
blican machine in the country.

Cause the cops don't need you, and man, they expect the same.

(I started out on Hienikins but I soon hit the harder stuff!)
From: ST702459@brownvm.brown.edu (Jordan Schwartz)
Newsgroups: rec.music.gdead
Subject: In defense of the Gores
Date: Tue, 21 Jul 1992 12:14:33 EDT
Organization: Brown University - Providence, Rhode Island  USA
NNTP-Posting-Host: brownvm.brown.edu
News-Software: BNN via BNN_POST v1.0 beta

Aside from all the other issues involved in a free speech debate, I think
this is the most important thing to keep in mind: We must not let our
opinions of whether or not Tipper Gore is a goody-goody, a righteous
woman, or a fanatic to negatively effect the aspirations of the Clinton/
Gore ticket. It is our only hope to get our sorry ass country out of the
mess that 12 self-indulgent Reagan/Bush years have gotten us into. In any
case, I'd have twice as much respect for someone who stands up for what she
believes in, regardless whether I agree with it, then some dumpy old nobody
who is content to live in her big husband's shadow.

As far as free speech goes: We all agree it is not an *absolute* right.
You cannot yell anti-semitic slurs in a synagogue and I don't think that
you should be able to advocate violence against women (2 Live Crew). I'm
exercising my "right" to free speech and saying that that's got to go.
I think warning labels would be practically ineffective, but not politically
indefensible. I think you SHOULD have a right to decide what you're children
listen to, and that warning labels are a way of helping you make that choice
not making that choice for you (you can still buy it).

From whence come "rights"? A piece of paper written by aristocrats of the
eighteenth century? That piece of paper says they come from God. Well, I
haven't heard from Her/Him lately, so I think that my rights better come
from somewhere else. Rights come from us. I have the right to do something
because I do it. A right is earned, not given. If you abuse it, it can
be revoked.

Jordan (ST702459@BROWNVM.BROWN.EDU)
Newsgroups: rec.music.gdead
From: quaglia@seas.smu.edu (Bruce Quaglia)
Subject: Re: the perennial subject of donna and keith
Organization: SMU School Of Engineering and Applied Science
Date: Thu, 30 Jul 1992 02:56:13 GMT

>Bravo, wharfie.  Especially when the other guy -- the guy being flamed
>-- has on several occasions claimed that his ... um ... "OPINIONS" are
>the objective truth, & that anyone who disagrees with him (i.e. almost
>everybody on r.m.gd, since he thinks that the Dead have not had a
>single decent show since circa 1977, & maybe even 1970) is (and I
>quote) "clueless."
>
Oh well gee, "clueless"? If you really like Donna's singing, you might try
checking out your average canine howling when the moon is full, because it
bears remarkable similarities both in timbre and general intonation-
although Donna would still be by far the louder of the two....You should
get a clue. It isn't a matter of opinion- it is a question of poor vocal
ability.
From: bs810@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (D. Eric Nay)
Newsgroups: rec.music.gdead
Subject: More on Tripper
Date: 24 Jul 92 01:31:26 GMT
Organization: Case Western Reserve University, Cleveland, Ohio, (USA)


No ODC
To furthur amuse, as long as I'm posting and Tipper seems to be a topic
of interest, I recall an Arsenio Hall show a while back, long before Al
became VP nominee, where Arsenio had been talkin' to Al about how he and
Tipper used to smoke the evil weed, then Arsenio made as if to leave the
subject, then says real seriously, "You know, there's just one thing I really
want to know, between you and Tipper,(dramatic pause) Who rolled the BEST
joint??!"  Al kinda grinned about it, but never answered the burning question.
Anyway, that's about all I've heard about our next Second Lady, barring the
hype surrounding PMRC, which has been already discussed with much vigor. Guess
she hadn't heard any of Prince's better stuff. Lazer daze,
eric n
ODC: uhhhh, The Grateful Dead have done Day Tripper...
-- 
I dropped out of college to find myself, and when I finally came across
me, I said, "Dude, why aren't you in college?"   -me
Newsgroups: rec.music.gdead
From: jonnyk@majestix.cs.uoregon.edu (Jonathan Dennis Kirshbaum)
Subject: Re: Englishtown is 9/3/77
Organization: University of Oregon Computer and Information Sciences Dept.
Date: Thu, 30 Jul 1992 19:19:24 GMT

In article <1992Jul30.134336.7845@dirac.physics.sunysb.edu> jeff@dirac.physics.sunysb.edu (Jeff Althoff) writes:
> So Sorry, Englishtown is 9/3/77, should've checked my ticketstub....
> Still, Donna sounds good on the tape. I liked the extra texture 
> they had with her. I also think the Grateful Dead sound fantastic now. 
> Vince is great! 
>
> One person's interesting vocal modulation is another person's out of tune
> singing :-):-):-)
>
> Jeff A.

I agree completely.  I think that we might all benefit by remembering that
when it comes to musical preference, there are no ``objective'' facts, just 
opinions.  I don't know how many times I've heard that the Dead are the
lamest, most boring band ever!  To those of us here, this is not
the case.  But as people who dearly love the music of this band in a world
where many others do not, let's keep in mind that liking Donna's singing
(I do sometimes, but not always) is just the same as liking the Dead as
a band - anyone who calls me wrong for either one is being close-minded,
and is missing the point - great art is what you like!

I guess what I'm trying to say is that as I sit here each day reading 
gdead posts, I would be a little happier if we could talk as 
friends about our opinions, not repeatedly post to defend our 
judgement of another's opinion as wrong.

Have a nice day ;v)

jon


Newsgroups: rec.music.gdead
From: scanlon@emba-news.uvm.edu.UUCP (Terrance J Scanlon)
Subject: Re: Phish & Phish Fans 
Originator: scanlon@griffin
Organization: University of Vermont -- Division of EMBA Computer Facility
Date: Tue, 28 Jul 1992 21:43:55 GMT

From article <1992Jul24.144445.1@eagle.wesleyan.edu>, by jlovkay@eagle.wesleyan.edu:
> I finally saw Phish, and was VERY impressed ! Even having a few live tapes, I
> was not expecting the quality of the show I saw (7/21, Great Woods). Now I have
> to see them when they aren't warming up for a headliner, the 45 minute set was
> just a tease, I wanted MORE !
> 
> Anyway, the point of this pointlessness is that the only crowd to assemble in
> the lot before the show were those there to see Phish, not Santana. 
> 
> What makes me post, is that while this crowd was strikingly younger than a
> Grateful Dead crowd (similar but without as many old farts like me), there was
> none of the regular bullshit that accompanies the GD scene. No ticketless
> bozos. No trash scattered hither nor tither. I saw no blatent drug use, and
> none of the irresponsible abuse that you just can't escape when you go to see
> The Dead.  
> 
> And here I've been blindly assuming that it was the younger faction of the G. 
> Dead scene that caused the trouble. PERHAPS NOT ! 
> 
> And Phish fans know how to dance :-)
> 
> Jim 'Not Runaway' Lovkay
Newsgroups: rec.music.gdead
From: sax.uoregon (Norma Sax)
Newsgroups: rec.music.gdead
Subject: personal to david hatcher
Date: 22 Jul 92 22:30:41 GMT
Article-I.D.: nntp.1992Jul22.223041.18184
Organization: university of oregon

hi david. my name is norma sax - you might recognize me as the saxaphone of the OCF board minutes. i was tickled to see a fair family member on the network and tried to e-mail you a note but i don't think it went through. if it did, you're reading this twice. twice.
i wrote to the fellow who asked about biking to the site and told him there are a few back roads he can take to get there safety, if not quickly. you probably don't know about them because you don't live in eugene.
i have a different opinion from you about the eight being open. i think it's a great idea to keep it closed. look how it was with 50,000 (50,400 to be exact) people tramping on it for three days. think of what it would be like with 80,000 hippies over two days. the mind boggles and the heart is very appreciative of wise decisions to keep the eight closed. 
anyway, it's a real treat to have read about the OCF on the network. may be the peach be with you!!
Newsgroups: rec.music.gdead
From: akr@sei.cmu.edu (Astrid Rapp)
Subject: Personal to Tom Lobonc (redfreak@....)
Organization: Software Engineering Institute
Date: Tue, 21 Jul 1992 20:11:28 GMT

Hey Tom!!

Sorry I haven't gotten back to you sooner, but I just logged onto the net
Today and tried to reach you.  All the mail is bouncing at both with and
without Softcopy.  Please e-mail me.  I'll try to send you info tomorrow.

Astrid 
akr@sei.cmu.edu
From: wrat@unisql.UUCP (wharfie)
Newsgroups: rec.music.gdead
Subject: out here in the fields
Keywords: opinions
Date: 31 Jul 92 16:12:21 GMT
Reply-To: wrat@unisql.UUCP (wharfie)
Organization: UniSQL, Inc., Austin, Texas, USA

In article <1992Jul30.192705.20431@athena.mit.edu> wam@athena.mit.edu (William A Mayer) writes:
>Baba O'Reilly indeed - does any one else get that slight mocking feel?

	Absolutely.


Newsgroups: rec.music.gdead
From: marcus@vestek.com (Mark Stephen)
Subject: Re: East Coast
Organization: Vestek Systems
Date: Thu, 23 Jul 92 15:28:44 GMT

In article <1992Jul22.214319.24996@sequent.com> mac@sequent.com (Cormac Burke) writes:
>In article <1992Jul22.184205.1489@vestek.com> marcus@vestek.com (Mark Stephen) writes:
>>>
>>     I know the Dead are banned from Berkeley CA, so that makes 2 WEST COAST venues
>>the Dead dont do. What East Coast cities have said no more Dead ?
>>
>
>When were the Dead banned from Berkeley? I know that they haven't
>played the Greek in a few years (I sure miss those shows!), but
>I wasn't aware of any formal 'ban'. If there was such a ban of 
>shows at the Greek it'd be the University that was responsible, not
>the city. 
>Cormac
>
     It was my understanding that it was the city that said no more shows

     Marcus
From: les@chopin.udel.edu (Matthew Re Templeton)
Newsgroups: rec.music.gdead
Subject: trade grov'lin'
Summary: a small and lonely box of tapes needs new friends! :-)
Date: 28 Jul 92 02:46:14 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: University of Delaware

Howdy folks.  Like the subject line says (sort of...) I have a small
collection of tapes and I'm looking to make it bigger little by
little.  If any of y'all are interested in doing small trades, drop
me a note and a tape list and I'll send you mine.  If you've gotten
in touch with me already, drop me a line too, just to prod me into
getting organized! 8-)  Thanks a bunch...

Yes, I finally installed a newsreader on my own account!!!
Matthew Templeton les@brahms.udel.edu or les@chopin.....
A spiffy new .sig coming soon....
From: AUDPH@ASUACAD.BITNET
Newsgroups: rec.music.gdead
Subject: Re: GD Hour in Phoenix??
Date: 29 Jul 92 19:32:08 GMT
Organization: Arizona State University

You can bet I'll be putting in my .02c worth.  Thanks for the info!!!
Newsgroups: rec.music.gdead