HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: ingles@engin.umich.edu (Ray Ingles)
Subject: Re: Why must you act this way?
Date: Fri, 08 Jan 93 13:54:21 EST
Organization: University of Michigan Engineering, Ann Arbor
Distribution: world,public

In article <1993Jan8.051550.29465@julian.uwo.ca> roberts@gaul.csd.uwo.ca (Eric Roberts) writes:
>In article <ksiew.726230394@munagin> ksiew@mullian.ee.mu.OZ.AU (steven kok-hsien siew) writes:
>>muehlhau@en.ecn.purdue.edu (John Muehlhausen) writes:
>>
>>>Right by her side.  Death is a result of sin, and happens from time to time
>>>and for various reasons in our fallen world. 
>>
>> Death is a result of sin? Gee. I don't know. I've always thought that death is
>>when your heart stops beating or if your head gets chop off. Where does sin
>>comes into the picture. Even if you led a "sinless" life you will still die,
>>so what is this death is a result of sin comes from?
>
>Death comes from the original sin, before it man was immortal.

 Look, I hate to do this, but come on. If humans were immortal before
eating the fruit of knowledge, (however you interpret that), then why
does it say in the Bible that God prevented them from *then* eating from
the tree of life, in which case they would become immortal?
 It seems to me that humans were made mortal and then were prevented from
becoming immortal, according to the Christian sourcebook.
 
 Also, note carefully that the rest of the article is not quoted below,
as it is irrelevant to this point. Please consider doing likewise in the
future to avoid posts that are longer than they need to be...

 Sincerely,

 Ray Ingles
 ingles@engin.umich.edu

 "Icky icky icky icky fKANG zoop-boing n zowzyin..." -The Knights Who
So Recently Said "NEE!"
From: geoff@tyger.East.Sun.COM (Geoff Arnold @ Sun BOS - R.H. coast near the top)
Newsgroups: alt.atheism
Subject: Re: A nation chosen by GOD -- New-Israel
Date: 12 Jan 1993 23:04:30 GMT
Organization: SunSelect
Distribution: world
Reply-To: geoff@tyger.East.Sun.COM
NNTP-Posting-Host: tyger.east.sun.com

In article 12JAN199314324699@utarlg.uta.edu, b645zaw@utarlg.uta.edu (Stephen Tice) writes:
##In article <1iuqdeINNo1k@seven-up.East.Sun.COM>, geoff@tyger.East.Sun.COM writes...
##>Actually, I find that you write incoherent rubbish. Is that what you
##>wanted to convey with this sentence?
##
##Gee, GA. Are you in the habit of reading rubbish?

On a.a? All the time, unfortunately.....


---
Geoff Arnold, PC-NFS architect, Sun Select. (geoff.arnold@East.Sun.COM)

Xref: sparky alt.atheism:25792 talk.religion.misc:25973
From: adams@spss.com (Steve Adams)
Newsgroups: alt.atheism,talk.religion.misc
Subject: Re: Madeleine Murray O'Hare
Date: 12 Jan 93 18:02:50 GMT
Organization: SPSS Inc.

mathew@mantis.co.uk (mathew) writes:

>adams@spss.com (Steve Adams) writes:
>>mathew <mathew@mantis.co.uk> writes:
>>>In that case, how would you feel about your children bringing home tracts
>>>from the Church of the SubGenius, the Discordians, or the Church of Satan?
>>>The Unification Church?  The Scientologists?  The Children of God?
>> 
>> Does it matter?  I mean really.
>
>I don't think it does, but I suspect that you'd be none too pleased if a
>teacher started handing out Children of God tracts to your kids at school.

Once again, I don't have a problem with ideas...

>> The point is, ideas are not dangerous....
>
>Not even, say, Neo-nazism?

Repulsive, yes, but dangerous?  Depends on what how mean...but in general,
I don't think the simple exposure to an idea is dangerous, in and of
itself.

 -Steve
--
  The opinions expressed above are those of the author and not SPSS, Inc.
                         -------------------
   adams@spss.com                                  Phone: (312) 329-3522
   Steve Adams        "Space-age cybernomad"       Fax:   (312) 329-3558
Newsgroups: alt.atheism
From: adwright@athena.mit.edu (Andrew D. Wright)
Subject: Christulations (branching from Re: Why must you act this way?)
Organization: Massachvsetts Institvte of Technology
Date: Fri, 8 Jan 1993 20:04:42 GMT

In article <11074@vice.ICO.TEK.COM> bobbe@vice.ICO.TEK.COM (Robert Beauchaine) writes:
>In article <1993Jan7.181314.9181@ra.royalroads.ca> mlee@post.RoyalRoads.ca (Malcolm Lee) writes:
>>I was trying to illustrate the fact that one should be in a humble frame of mind when addressing God.  It's not like talking to one of your surf buddies.  The words don't matter so much as the attitude.  God knows what you are feeling and that is what matters.
>>
>
>  Christ on a stick! Trim your header ...

Any other Jesusial exhortations?  How about:

Christ in a tree!				Jesus H. Christ!
Oh, Christ!					Christ, Christ, Christ!
For Christ's sake!				Go Christ yourself!
Christing annoyance!				I was a teenage Christer!
Eine schleine Christlichs!			Christ in a handbasket!
Here we go a-Christ-a-ling!			Christ the lumberjack!
Hay-zeus Christos!				Gingritch Christ-housen!
Christsmith revisiteded!			Christ in a barrel o' mesquite!
The Christ is gonna hit the fan!		Christ it again, Sam!
If it's not one Christ thing, it's another!	We wish you a merry Christmas!
You're Christ out of luck!			Go ahead, Christ; make my day!
Christ is in the house!			Pump up the Christ!
Grand Central Christation!			Beverly Hills 90Christ10!
Down Christbury Way!				Stop Christ-gaiting!
Read my Christ!				A thousand points of Christ!
It's a new Christ order!			Christ and beans!
The Christcession is over!			Turn over a new Christ!
Operation Christ Shield!			Operation Desert Christ!
Operation Restore Christ!			Teenage Mutant Christ Turtles!
Right turn, Christ!				ExChrist me, baking powder!
Christ, James, and don't spare the Jesus!	Leider-Christen!
Hell, I'd Christ on a Christ-plug if I thought it would Christ any good!
Old King Christ was a merry old Christ, and a merry old Christ was he!
He called for his Christ, and he called for his Christ, and he called for his
 Jesus' three!
Payless Shoe Christ: You could pay Christ, but why!
I've fallen and I Christ get up!		Vote RepubliChrist!
It keeps Christing, and Christing, and ...	PC: Politically Christ!
Taco Christ: Make a Christ for the border!	
If I've told you Christ I've told you a Christian times!
From: birge@guerciotti.EBay.Sun.COM (John Birge)
Newsgroups: alt.atheism
Subject: Re: I feel threatened by Christianity...
Date: 12 Jan 1993 21:18:02 GMT
Organization: Sun Microsystems, Inc.
Distribution: world
Reply-To: birge@guerciotti.EBay.Sun.COM
NNTP-Posting-Host: guerciotti.ebay.sun.com

Allen Ethridge writes :

>Drug use is not sin, and murder sometimes has its place.  However, drug abuse
>nd violence are not a result of moving away from God, they are the result
>of overpopulation, poverty, poor health and nutrition, ecological problems,
>etc.  They have natural, not spiritual, causes.


OK For sake of arguement I'll buy that assertion. Now explain compassion,
love, or self awareness.

Explain the man that helped half a dozen survivors of a plane crash free
themselves from a freezing river losing his life in process. 

I could go on but you get the gist of the question.

Just Curious.....John

Newsgroups: alt.atheism,talk.religion.misc,alt.pagan
From: cdentan@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (Catherine M Dentan)
Subject: Re: Tax the Church
Keywords: loss of tax-base 
Organization: The Ohio State University
Date: Sun, 3 Jan 1993 21:54:24 GMT

In article <1993Jan2.171531.10952@mnemosyne.cs.du.edu> pciszek@nyx.cs.du.edu (Paul Ciszek) writes:
>mam@jcnpc.cmhnet.org (Mike A. McAngus) writes:
>
>>I'm in full agreement.  I find it appalling that more and more property gets 
>>bought up by religious organizations and taken off the tax rolls.
>
>Now it's my turn to ask for a citation.  I had not noticed any such explosion.
>

In the early '70's the real estate agent who was handling the sale of my house
in Buffalo, N. Y. told me that approximately 1/3 of the real property in the
city and its suburbs was owned by the R. C. Church.  She was a member of that
church, but thought it appalling all the same that the church's tax-exempt
status had so eroded the city's tax base.  I do not know the current situation
in Buffalo, or elsewhere, as to specific facts, but certainly it has long been
widely believed that tax-exemption for religious groups undermines the infra-
structure of society by eliminating revenues.

An Episcopal priest of my acquaintance (now retired), who used to teach Old
Testament studies at a well-respected seminary, held the opinion for many years
that no religious group should receive tax-exempt status for any reason.  Of
course, he had also been a member of the CPUSA back in the '30's.

...just my 2 cents

CMD


Newsgroups: alt.atheism
From: jfelder@lerc.nasa.gov (James L. Felder)
Subject: Re: THE MIND OF THE BIBLE BELIEVER
Followup-To: alt.atheism,talk.religion.misc
Organization: Sverdrup Technology, Inc.
Distribution: world,public
Date: Wed, 6 Jan 1993 17:44:36 GMT

In article <1993Jan5.223146.29327@ra.royalroads.ca>,
mlee@post.RoyalRoads.ca (Malcolm Lee) wrote:
> 
> 
> But we can have eternal life and the knowledge of good and evil.
> Sure, when God placed the Tree of Knowledge of good and evil in the Garden, HE
> knew that the people would partake of it and be condemned to death as well as 
> all the generations that followed them.  GOD knew this!  
>    That is why He provided a plan for salvation through His one and only Son,
> Jesus Christ.  We are living in the age of grace whereby we may be saved IF we
> choose to follow Jesus.  There's nothing more to it than that.

Why did it take God thousands of years to send the world JC, and what about
all the people who existed before JC?  Do they get eternal life, or just
because God took his/her/its own sweet time in serving up the savior, do
these people miss out on eternity?  If they do get immortality without
having JC as their middle man, then why do we need him?


James L. Felder            (216)891-4019         -My opinions are MINE-
Sverdrup Technology, Inc.  jfelder@lerc.nasa.gov  I think that should
NASA Lewis Research Center Cleveland 44135        cover all bases, 
                                                  don't you.

"Some people drink from the fountain of knowledge -
    other people gargle"
Newsgroups: alt.atheism,talk.religion.misc,alt.pagan
From: ethridge@crchh403 (Allen Ethridge)
Subject: Re: I feel threatened by Christianity...
Date: Wed, 13 Jan 1993 01:10:52 GMT
Organization: BNR, Inc.
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1 PL6]

John Birge (birge@guerciotti.EBay.Sun.COM) wrote:
: Allen Ethridge writes :
: 
: >Drug use is not sin, and murder sometimes has its place.  However, drug abuse
: >nd violence are not a result of moving away from God, they are the result
: >of overpopulation, poverty, poor health and nutrition, ecological problems,
: >etc.  They have natural, not spiritual, causes.
: 
: 
: OK For sake of arguement I'll buy that assertion. Now explain compassion,
: love, or self awareness.
: 
: Explain the man that helped half a dozen survivors of a plane crash free
: themselves from a freezing river losing his life in process. 
: 
: I could go on but you get the gist of the question.
: 
: Just Curious.....John
: 
Actually, i'm not sure i do get the gist of the question.  Do you mean to
imply that compassion, love and self awareness have spiritual as opposed to
natural causes?  All i can say to that is that i disagree - i see no reason
to search for anything other than natural causes.

Why does a person sacrifice himself to save others?  There are several
possible reasons - rational thinking, a clear understanding of the value of
life, a muddled understanding of the value of life, a delusional belief in
an afterlife, military training...  Any specific reasons or causes would
require detailed knowledge of the individual and the situation, but no need
for a spiritual, non-natural explanation.

I'm not sure i answered your question, but then i'm not sure what your 
question was, or if you were just making a blind assertion.  I'm also not
sure what this has to do with feeling threatened by Christianity.
--
allen@well.sf.ca.us
ethridge@bnr.ca
my opinions are my ow
Newsgroups: alt.atheism
Subject: Re: Nailing Christianity: Sufficient Support for Atheism?
From: rhuss+@EDRC.CMU.EDU (Robert Huss)
Date: Tue, 5 Jan 1993 15:30:01 GMT
Organization: Carnegie Mellon University

In article <76096@apple.apple.COM>, mikel@Apple.COM (Mikel Evins) writes:


|> 
|> >	It is evident that all of the religions there are have certain
|> >inconsitencies within them.  The followers of any given religion may refute
|> >that the inconsitencies aren't important, but they undeniably exist.  
|> 
|> I consider it likely that there are (at least arguably) logical
|> inconsistencies in all religions, but I would not make the
|> positive claim that there actually are such inconsistencies
|> because 1. I don't know the details of every religion; 2. I
|> may very well not know what all the religions are; 3. without
|> such detailed knowledge, such a claim is an overgeneralization.
|> So, do you have intimate knowledge of all the world's religions,
|> or do you have lower standards of evidence when making
|> universal claims about religions? If the former, then could you,
|> for my edification, point out exactly what logical inconsistencies
|> distinguish Vajrayana Buddhism, Santeria, and Australian shamanism?
|> 

	Perhaps I was a bit too forceful in my conclusions.  I cannot
point out the inconsistencies in those specific religions.  The general
message of my post was a question, not a statement.  I can, as a person
raised in a Christian society, point out inconsistencies in Christianity.
I have read about, and talked with people from other backgrounds, who
find similar inconsistencies in their own religions.  If some one
can site a religion that has not had been challenged, I would be very
interested.  
	My supposition is that all religions do have inconsitencies, 
and that the root of these inconsistencies is the society in which each
religion was formed.  This would give support for the claim that humans
created god, rather than the other way around.  

Bob Huss
From: uhschreg@cip.informatik.uni-erlangen.de (Ulrich Schreglmann)
Newsgroups: alt.atheism
Subject: Re: The Moron Posts Again!
Date: Tue, 12 Jan 1993 16:02:08 GMT
Organization: Student Pool, CSD, University of Erlangen, Germany
NNTP-Posting-Host: faui09.informatik.uni-erlangen.de

pdc@dcs.ed.ac.uk (Paul Crowley) writes:

>James F Tims posts a list of studies, many of which show a positive
>correlation between atheism and IQ.  In many ways, I'm not very
>impressed, despite being (a) an atheist, and (b) jolly clever.  What is
>this correlation supposed to demonstrate?  It's not surprising that in
>a society where theism is the default option it's those given to
>thinking who are most likely to change their minds, and in any case
>measuring intelligence by IQ is something akin to measuring digestion
>by turd length.  It certainly says nothing about whether theism is true
>or not, or even for how strong the case for it is.  If only I owned a
>time machine, I'd go and see whether any such correlation existed for
>phrenology.

Yeah, good point! I wonder how these tests would go in the former Soviet
Union. "Default" there is atheism, or rather was, until a very short
while ago, and is certainly not yet looked as askance at, as it is here.

Of course it doesn't prove which ideology is the "true" one, but it cer-
tainly proves which one's followers are cooler.
"Oh God, you are so mighty, so all powerful, I crawl in the dust before
thee,..."
Oh well, I leave the decision to you.  :-)


May the Cool Be with You!

(C)OOL mcmxciii
Newsgroups: alt.atheism
From: madhaus@netcom.com (Maddi Hausmann)
Subject: Re: FISH SIGS
Organization: Society for Putting Things on Top of Darwin Fish
Date: Fri, 8 Jan 1993 22:31:02 GMT

mathew <mathew@mantis.co.uk> writes: >
petel@sequent.com (Pete Lancashire) writes: >>
>> 
>> This reminds me, who is it or where is it, I can get one
>> of the fish with legs for my car (and my 'stall' at work) ?
>
>It's in the FAQ file:
>
>Evolution Designs sell the "Darwin fish".  It's a fish symbol, like the ones
>Christians stick on their cars, but with feet and the word "Darwin" written
>inside.  The deluxe moulded 3D plastic fish is $4.95 postpaid in the US.
>
>Write to:  Evolution Designs, 7119 Laurel Canyon #4, North Hollywood,
>           CA 91605.
>
>People in the San Francisco Bay area can get Darwin Fish from Lynn Gold
><lgold@callahans.cadence.com>.  For net people who go to Lynn directly, the
>price is $4.95 per fish.

I don't know if Lynn's e-mail address works anymore, because she is
no longer at Cadence.  She has an account on netcom now; email her
at figmo@netcom.com.

-- 
Maddi Hausmann                       |  The Truth is still The Truth, forsooth 
madhaus@netcom.com                   |  Even if believing It you refuse
Centigram Communications Corp        |  Complete disproof's uncouth and moot
San Jose California  408/428-3553    |  A Fundie's brain is dead.

Newsgroups: alt.atheism,talk.religion.misc
From: b645zaw@utarlg.uta.edu (Stephen Tice)
Subject: Re: Believers: What Would Make You Not Believe In GOD?
Followup-To: alt.atheism
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41    
Organization: The University of Texas at Arlington
Date: Tue, 12 Jan 1993 22:50:00 GMT

In article <jfelder-120193123846@latvia.lerc.nasa.gov>, 
jfelder@lerc.nasa.gov (James L. Felder) writes...

>> Citation not important:
>> (* -- Isn't that the second law of thermodynamics or something?)
> 
>No the Second Law says that a given thread will diverge from the original
>topic at a speed proportional to the number of people reading/posting :-^).
> This group is living proof! >:-)

Ahhh, gut.

From John R. Pierce's,  
_An Introduction to Information Theory, Symbols, Signals, and Noise_
(c) '61 & '80, Dover Pubs. NYC. p. 80...

	The measure of the amount of information is called
	entropy. If we want to first understand this entropy
	of communication theory, it is best first to clear
	our minds of any ideas associated with the entropy 
	of physics. Once we understand entropy as it is used
	in information theory thoroughly, there is no harm in 
	trying to relate it to the entropy of physics, but
	the literatures indicates that some workers have never
	recovered from the confusion engendered by an early
	admixture of ideas concerning the entropies of physics
	and communications theory. 

>So let me pose this as a companion question.

>If not, what would could cause you to no longer
>follow your current religion while still holding onto your underlaying
>conviction that there is a creator entity behind the universe.

Reading a dictionary definition should do.

_Webster's Dictionary of the English Language_ (c) '87, '89:

	religion ... man's expression of his acknowledgement
                     of the divine....

Thus religion is not from GOD. 

>James L. Felder 

   |
-- J --
   |
   |  Stephen

Newsgroups: alt.atheism
From: mmeyer@m2.dseg.ti.com (Mark Meyer)
Subject: Re: Believers: What Would Make You Not Believe In GOD?
Organization: TI DSEG, Spring Creek, Plano, Tx.
	<9JAN199303004506@utarlg.uta.edu> <11097@vice.ICO.TEK.COM>
	<11JAN199315111090@utarlg.uta.edu>
Date: Tue, 12 Jan 1993 18:14:01 GMT

In article <11JAN199315111090@utarlg.uta.edu> b645zaw@utarlg.uta.edu (Stephen Tice) writes:
> If I believed there was no GOD, well --- I'd be planning how to cause
> or be out causing "accidents," which change society and politics. Like
> poisoning foods and derailing trains. I could become rich, just by
> jerking with the stock market, and there would be nothing worthwhile
> in having this discussion.

	So you NEED belief in God to remain moral?  That's really sad.
	Doesn't mean God exists, though.

-- 
Mark Meyer                                               | mmeyer@dseg.ti.com |
Texas Instruments, Inc.,  Plano TX                       +--------------------+
Every day, Jerry Junkins is grateful that I don't speak for TI.
                                            Remember: If you drive - use a car.
Newsgroups: alt.atheism,talk.religion.misc
From: ron@syacus.acus.oz.au (Ron Williams)
Subject: Re: THE MIND OF THE BIBLE BELIEVER
Organization: ACUS Australian Centre for Unisys Software, Sydney
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1 PL6]
Distribution: world,public
Date: Mon, 4 Jan 1993 21:58:31 GMT

craig sivils (casivils@lescsse.jsc.nasa.gov) wrote:
> Why do weight lifters keep lifting weights when they know they are capable
> of lifting the weight?
> 
> 				Craig

Que? No comprendo.

--
Ron Williams                  ACSnet : ron@syacus.acus.oz
Ph : +61 2 390-1366         Internet : ron@syacus.acus.OZ.AU
Fax: +61 2 390-1391             UUCP : uunet!munnari!syacus.acus.oz.au!ron
Standard Disclaimers Apply
Newsgroups: alt.atheism,talk.religion.misc,alt.pagan
From: swaim@owlnet.rice.edu (Michael Parks Swaim)
Subject: Re: Religious Taxation (was: Madeleine Murray O'Hare)
Organization: Rice University
Date: Sat, 9 Jan 1993 22:50:33 GMT

In article <2935686156.0.p00261@psilink.com> "Robert Knowles" <p00261@psilink.com> writes:
>Due to the generous tax exemptions they receive, Christians have been
>able to purchase entire radio and television stations.  Are atheists
>allowed to respond on those?
  So why not form an athiestic church (yes there have been some) and do the
same thing?



-- 
Mike Swaim            | "101 Dalmations? Yeah I saw that."
swaim@owlnet.rice.edu | "You Did! REALLY? The same film?
Disclamer: I lie      | Let's stop driving! We must get out and jump
up and down and up and down and dance around and around!" Matt and Delerium
Newsgroups: alt.atheism
From: pmoloney@maths.tcd.ie (Paul Moloney)
Subject: Re: God, what use is it ?
Organization: Somewhere in the Twentieth Century
Date: Fri, 8 Jan 1993 14:41:59 GMT

sieferme@stein.u.washington.edu (Eric Sieferman) writes:

>Reading s.r.c. is so entertaining for atheists, and also
>edifying:  it is really amazing to see how goofy
>christians sound when they are talking to themselves.

Naw; s.r.c. is quite rational most of the time (relatively speaking). If you
want to heard christians really letting their hair down - and their
brain out for a walk - try bit.listserv.christia. It's been a bit slow
lately, but they still come up with good stuff every now and again.

Here's one of my favourite postings from there which I saved:

-------------------------

  Look at what has happened in this country just in the last 12 months.
  Earthquakes.  Jeffrey Dahmer.   The government is corrupt and crumbling.
  A resurgence in tuberculosis.  A movement to declare anecephalic babies
  dead at birth.  A how-to book on suicide at the top of the Best Seller
  list.  Giant African snails (see TIME, 5/4/92, p. 24).  Floods.  Continued
  famines.  And, interestingly enough...the vague promise of peace in the
  Middle East.  If these ain't the end times, I'll be very surprised.
  Imagine what the Great Tribulation will be like, if this is all business
  as usual!
  
  Even so, come, Lord Jesus!  Amen.
                                    Love INC,
                                             ---Kerry
-------------------------

P.
-- 
moorcockheathersiainbankshamandcornpizzapjorourkebluesbrothersspikeleepratchett
clive  P a u l   M o l o n e y    "I'm pretty witty and you're itty bitty    pe
james  Trinity College, Dublin     And isn't it a pity the city can't see?   vr
brownbladerunnerorsonscottcardprincewatchmenkatebushbatmanthekillingjoketolkien
Newsgroups: alt.atheism
Subject: Re: Why it sucks to be an atheist...
From: drake+@cs.cmu.edu (Drake)
Date: Sun, 10 Jan 1993 21:52:23 GMT
Organization: School of Computer Science, Carnegie Mellon

>One consolation is that we are living our lives with one less illusion.

Great, so we can feel superior to all the people who ARE happy?

-- 
Love and Laughter,             | NOTE: Private mail must go explicitly
Xeper and Remanifest,          | to drake@seismo.soar.cs.cmu.edu
                       DRAKE   | or it'll bounce back to you...
Newsgroups: alt.atheism