HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
Newsgroups: rec.sport.rugby
Subject: Re: Richard Loe - About Time !
From: nicaugh@otago.ac.nz
Date: 13 Oct 92 10:30:41 NZDT
Organization: University of Otago, Dunedin, New Zealand

> As far as replacements goes, my first pick would be Mark "The Bull" Allen.
> 'Course, they could always give Steve Hotton a run :^)    
Steve is way cool but I dunno Allen sounds better as does that 125kg prop
from King Country. He ran rampant against Otago in the Championship.

One point about Loe, it seem's that he has been made an example of.
Personnally I find Allan Whetton jumping on Steve Bachop's head just as 
offensive yet there was a major disparity in the sentances. Whatever
he has effectively been banned for 13 odd months as the French look
unlikely to allow him to play there in the of season.
You can make all you like of the guy's play but he is a saint 
(appart from the Eye gouge which he has paid for) compared
with some of the player's of yore such as Skinner.
TV seems to be having a very sanitizing effect on the game. As one 
Otago Rugby admin put it, that's good as long as they aren't being
selective about who they spot/ don't follow a player looking for 
trouble.
Last point two leading Kiwi League players in Oz said Loe would have been
banned for life in Sydney League for an Eye gouge like that.

Nigel
===============================================================================
Nigel Caughey                       Phone : +64-3-4799750
Animation Research Ltd              Fax   : +64-3-4799751
Dunedin 
New Zealand                         Email : nicaugh@otago.ac.nz
From: ksrao@power.ee.ndsu.nodak.edu
Newsgroups: rec.sport.rugby
Subject: Kangaroos in UK?
Date: 8 Oct 92 14:13:36 GMT
Reply-To: ksrao@power.ee.ndsu.nodak.edu


        I have seen some raw feed for Channel 7 showing Kangaroo team. Are they
touring Great Britain? Can anybody give me their schedule? It is possible that
their games might be on satellite here. Their TV coverage of their last tour of
GB was relayed through the satellites vieable in North America.


K. Sankara Rao                          e-mail ksrao@power.eee.ndsu.nodak.edu

Department of Electrical Engineering
North Dakota State University
Fargo, ND 58105  USA

Phone:  (701)237-7217  (o)
        (701)235-9912  (h)
From: naicg@vax.oxford.ac.uk
Newsgroups: rec.sport.rugby
Subject: RFL results, 11th October
Date: 12 Oct 92 09:05:55 GMT
Organization: Oxford University VAX 6620

A quick recap on Friday's scores (see earlier posting)
Huddersfield 2 Australia 66
Warrington 4 Bradford N. 22

Sunday's results:
Division one:
Castleford 26 (Tries: S.Middleton(2),N.Roebuck,St.J.Ellis; Goals: L.Crooks(5))
Widnes 14 (Tries: L.Holliday,D.Myers; Goals: J.Davies(3))

Castleford led 14-0 early on, Widnes pulled back before half time with their 
two tries, including one for debutant Dave Myers. Castleford then pulled 
away in the second half. Both sides have 50 per cent records in the league.

Halifax 18 (Tries: G.Austin,M.Preston; Goals: P.Bishop(5))
Sheffield E. 13 (Tries: B.McGuire,D.Mycoe; Goals: D.Mycoe(2); DG: T.Lumb)

Mark Preston's late try, and Paul Bishop's five goals out of five gave 
Halifax a narrow win against the Eagles, who missed four penalties.

Hull KR 30 (Tries: M.Bibby,B.Sodje,P.Lyman,S.Hoe; Goals: M.Fletcher(7))
Leigh 1 (Drop-Goal: M.Blakeley)

Hull KR's first win since the opening day of the season. Leigh remain bottom 
of the table.

Salford 14 (Tries: J.Critchley,M.Ford; Goals: C.Brown(3))
Wakefield T. 8 (Tries: N.Wright,  .Goddard)

Wakefield led 8-4 at half time, but Salford rallied with two second half tries.

St.Helens 38 (Tries:P.Veivers,J.Griffiths,G.Connolly,S.Cooper,S.Nickle,T.Ropati,
              A.Hunte; Goals: B.Dwyer(5))
Hull 8 (Tries: J.Grant,P.Harrison)

Another big win for the unbeaten Saints, who led 30-0 at the interval.

Wigan 24 (Tries: A.Farrar(2),D.Bell,S.Edwards; Goals: F.Botica(4))
Leeds 6 (Try: G.Schofield; Goal: G.Schofield)

Wigan led 16-0 at half time. Former Namibian RU full back Andre Stoop had 
a big hand in two of the Wigan tries. Shaun Edwards and Ellery Hanley were 
sin binned for fighting.

Table:
12 points St.Helens
10 points Wigan,Bradford
 8 points Halifax
 6 points Castleford,Widnes,Warrington,Salford,Sheffield,Hull
 4 points Leeds,Hull KR
 0 points Wakefield,Leigh

Division two:
Bramley 4 Featherstone R. 22
Rochdale H. 20 Oldham 21
Swinton 16 London C. 6

Table:
10 points Featherstone,Oldham
 6 points London,Bramley,Rochdale
 4 points Carlisle
 2 points Swinton,Huddersfield

Division three:
Barrow 50 Chorley B. 4
Blackpool G. 12 Whitehaven 32
Dewsbury 36 Nottingham C. 12
Highfield 7 Batley 22
Ryedale-York 42 Doncaster 22
Workington T. 40 Hunslet 19

Table:
12 points Ryedale-York
10 points Dewsbury,Batley
 8 points Whitehaven
 6 points Workington,Keighley
 4 points Doncaster,Barrow,Blackpool,Hunslet
 2 points Chorley,Nottingham
 0 points Highfield

Back tomorrow/Wednesday with news of the GB squad for the World Cup final

Ian
From: moir@cs.umd.edu (Mark Moir)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.rugby
Subject: Re: This season's internationals
Date: 13 Oct 92 16:38:36 GMT
Organization: U of Maryland, Dept. of Computer Science, Coll. Pk., MD 20742

In article <890091b.5.718989216@ace.acadiau.ca> 890091b@ace.acadiau.ca (HEIDI JILL BURKHOLDER) writes:
>In article <1992Oct13.132109.8083@bradford.ac.uk> S.Burke@bradford.ac.uk (S BURKE) writes:
>From: S.Burke@bradford.ac.uk (S BURKE)
>Subject: Re: This season's internationals
>
>>England v Canada	17 October
>
>	Please post the results of this game! While rugby is growing in 

Better still, please post information about how it can be watched on TV,
if possible.  Won't one of the satellite channels (TSN??) be carrying
it?  If so what time?  What time is the game?  Any information would be
appreciated.

Cheers

Mark

PS.  I am in the Washington DC area, in case anyone knows where I can
     watch it here.
From: cjp@aber.ac.uk (C J Price)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.rugby
Subject: Re: The Flower Of Scotland!
Date: 7 Oct 92 11:23:09 GMT
Organization: Computer Science Dept., UCW Aberystwyth

Thanks to our unknown Scottish correspondent for posting the words to
Flower of Scotland.

Whenever I have heard them, I have found some phrases hard to make
out. The explanation is apparently that they don't make much sense.

"Your wee bit hill and glen", is this supposed to be English?

Cheers,

Chris Price


--
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
Chris Price, Department of Computer Science, University College of Wales,
             Aberystwyth, Dyfed, SY23 3BZ, United Kingdom.
email: cjp@uk.ac.aber (within UK) cjp@aber.ac.uk (rest of world?)
Telephone: 0970-622444
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
Newsgroups: rec.sport.rugby
From: tratnana@EUREKA-GOLD.WBME.JHU.EDU (Tilak Ratnanather)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.rugby
Subject: results?
Date: 12 Oct 92 01:13:26 GMT


Que c'est que se passe dans les jeux a mecredi derniere et samedi?
Je pense que les Springboks ont joues trois jeus.

What news of the Boks in France? Also what happened to Wales vs
Italy? I was reading in Rugby World (October issue) that Wales
have decided that they are in no way going to match the physique
of the English and Southern Hemisphere forwards. However, the
high scores in the first month of the Welsh leagues seem to
reflect a shift in the emphasis on getting the ball out to the
wings a la 'Quick, Quick, Quick' tactics of the Wallabies of
the mid 80s. The catch is that lineout ball is a must and that
is why Llanelli came to nought against Swansea two weeks ago.
Sorry it wasnt in Rugby World but in Oct 4th issue of The
Observer (London). Well, we will see on November 14th and I
expect a Wallabies triumph: I was the only guy around in
South West Wales who predicted that Wales would lose by 25 pts
against the 1989 All Blacks and yet I am proud to be a Welsh
supporter.

Tilak Ratnanather       Internet: tratnana@eureka-gold.wbme.jhu.edu
Dept of Otolaryngology -- Head & Neck Surgery    || Phone 410 955 3877
The Johns Hopkins University School of Medicine  || Fax   410 955 1299
Traylor Research Bldg 522, 720 Rutland Avenue    || Fax   410 955 0549
Baltimore MD 21205-2196                          ||
From: naicg@vax.oxford.ac.uk
Newsgroups: rec.sport.rugby
Subject: RFL results, 9th October
Date: 10 Oct 92 09:57:26 GMT
Organization: Oxford University VAX 6620

An enforced trip to the lab, so last night's results are a couple of 
days earlier than usual

Tour
Huddersfield 2 (Goal: P.Hellewell)
Australia 66 (Tries: G.Mackay(4),B.Clyde(2),T.Brasher(2),P.Harragon,S.Walters,
		    S.Renouf,B.Lindner,D.Gillespie;
	      Goals:M.Meninga(5),T.Brasher(2))
I think the score says it all.

Division One
Warrington 4 (Try: N.Kenyon)
Bradford N. 22 (Tries: G.Cordle(2),D.Shelford,R.Powell; Goals: D.Fox(3))

Bradford continue their impressive run of form with their fifth successive 
league win. Warrington have lost the last two and are slipping back.

Back on Monday

Ian
Newsgroups: rec.sport.rugby
Subject: Re: Richard Loe
From: Andrew.Stock@comp.vuw.ac.nz (Andrew Guy Stock)
Date: Thu, 8 Oct 1992 19:54:22 GMT
Organization: Dept. of Comp. Sci., Victoria Uni. of Wellington, New Zealand.
Keywords: 9 months


Richard Loe has been banned from rugby for nine months.Interesting to see if it
will be the end of his All Black days.
From: shirona@bsu-cs.bsu.edu (for a safer planet)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.rugby
Subject: rugby equipment
Date: 8 Oct 92 11:12:28 GMT
Organization: CS Dept, Ball St U, Muncie, Indiana


hello netters!

we have a rugby club down here in muncie, in. anyone know any rugby store/s in
U.S. that we can get rugby equipment and other rugby supplies ? 
there was a store in portland. i called them and they promissed me that they 
will send me a catalog. but did not receive it so far.
shirona

Newsgroups: rec.sport.rugby
From: moir@cs.umd.edu (Mark Moir)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.rugby
Subject: Re: Richard Loe
Date: 8 Oct 92 14:54:35 GMT
Organization: U of Maryland, Dept. of Computer Science, Coll. Pk., MD 20742

In article <1992Oct8.041410.8584@cs.su.oz.au> allanc@cluster.cs.su.oz (Restless Wanderer) writes:

>Yeah,I know just another whinging one eyed Aussie .
>Get rid of him,he's like aN anchor around an otherwise great side's neck.

No, you seem to share the opinion of most people here.  What I want to know
is whether or not there will be any action against Loe?  Everybody is calling
for long suspensions, etc., but nobody has mentioned the official viewpoint,
if one exists.  Does it?  Cheers.

Mark.


Newsgroups: rec.sport.rugby
From: pavenant@dos-lan.cs.up.ac.za (Paul Avenant)
Subject: Re: Latest Bok Scores
Date: Mon, 12 Oct 1992 06:28:20 GMT
Organization: Computer Science Department, University of Pretoria
Keywords: Viva Springboks1

In article <1992Oct8.191259.21156@gn.ecn.purdue.edu> laing@gn.ecn.purdue.edu (Peter Laing) writes:
>Newsgroups: rec.sport.rugby
>Path: ford.ee.up.ac.za!ee.und.ac.za!shrike.und.ac.za!psgrain!uunet!think.com!spool.mu.edu!news.cs.indiana.edu!noose.ecn.purdue.edu!gn.ecn.purdue.edu!laing
>From: laing@gn.ecn.purdue.edu (Peter Laing)
>Subject: Latest Bok Scores
>Message-ID: <1992Oct8.191259.21156@gn.ecn.purdue.edu>
>Keywords: Viva Springboks1
>Organization: Purdue University Engineering Computer Network
>Date: Thu, 8 Oct 92 19:12:59 GMT
>Lines: 10
>Hey Lads,
>
>Has anybody got the results for the 2nd game of the bok tour?
>They were meant to have played a game on the 7th Oct.
>Still no news?
>Hope it won't be bad news!
>Cheers,
>        Peter Laing
>
>
The Boks won the second game by 29 - 22 scoring 3 tries to one. The same 
team (with Naas in at flyhalf) beat a Midi-Pyr. team on Saterday by 18-15 
after a late penalty by Theo van Rensburg. It seems that this team with one 
or two changes will be the test team. Although they played well at stages, 
they were still far from convincing.
From: sma@waikato.ac.nz (Stephen Anderson)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.rugby
Subject: Re: Richard Loe
Date: 9 Oct 92 08:46:36 +1300
Organization: University of Waikato, Hamilton, New Zealand

In article <1992Oct8.041410.8584@cs.su.oz.au>, allanc@cs.su.oz.au (Restless Wanderer) writes:
> Sam Scott Young .......   15 stitches
> Paul Carozza    .......   Smashed Nose,dislocated cheekbone.
> Cooper          .......   Eye Gouged (his own All Black team-mate (?) )
> Loe             .......   BANNED FOR LIFE.!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Shouldn't that first one have been Brendan Nassar (?) after an alledged
over-vigorous rucking session.  SSY was, as I remember it, the guy who was so
preoccupied with the supposed over-vigorous play of the All Blacks that he
seemed to out-do any All-Black in the rough play department.

Anyway, it is official.  According to the NZRFU, Richard Loe deliberately
inserted his fingers with force into Greg Cooper's eye, and will be banned from
all rugby for nine months from April next year.  For a 32 year old Loe, this
almost certainly means the end of his All Black career.  While the two
Australian incidents could have reasonable doubt (Nassar through agressive play 
and Carozza through trying to stop that player rolling over [believing that he
hadn't yet scored]) the video evidence in this case was unmistakeable.  It is
just a pity that such a fine player as Loe (like a good wine he has improved
with age) should have disqualified himself from rugby in this fashion.


Stephen..
From: naicg@vax.oxford.ac.uk
Newsgroups: rec.sport.rugby
Subject: Sheffield Eagles v Australia
Date: 15 Oct 92 09:12:06 GMT
Organization: Oxford University VAX 6620

Sheffield E. 22 (Tries: P.Broadbent,G.Jack,D.Plange,A.Simpson;
		 Goals:D.Mycoe(3))
Australia 52 (Tries: T.Brasher(2),A.Langer(2),W.Carne,M.Hancock,M.Sargent,
		     B.Lindner,S.Renouf,Kevin Walters; 
	      Goals: T.Brasher(3),W.Carne(2),B.Fittler)

Another big win for the World Cup squad. Three early tries put them in 
command. The half time score was 22-6.

Coming up:
There are a couple of games before Sunday, and a full programme of second 
and third division games then. The first division programme is cut to 3 
games in total because of the Lancs Cup final (St.Helens v Wigan), and 
the Yorks Cup Final (Sheffield E. v Wakefield T.). The Australians play 
their third and final warm up game against Cumbria. This may cause the 
cancellation of a couple of other games, in fact, because of representation 
by players from teams in that County.

Ian
Newsgroups: rec.sport.rugby
From: allanc@cs.su.oz.au (Restless Wanderer)
Subject: Re: Richard Loe
Reply-To: allanc@cluster.cs.su.oz (Restless Wanderer)
Organization: Basser Dept of Computer Science, University of Sydney, Australia
Date: Fri, 9 Oct 1992 04:32:51 GMT

In article <1992Oct9.152013.11336@waikato.ac.nz> rgty_mrw@waikato.ac.nz (Mark Willcock) writes:
>> 	Ditto...
>> 	The real joke is that he got off so leniently and that his
>> 	suspension starts in April.So what about his personal life.
>

>Actually I think the fact the penalty starts in April is good.  Nine months is a

I think April will find Loe coaching some French side,so I've read in papers.
I think the suspension was errant in that Loe should lose this task.I mean
what can he teach... elbow lesson for the day is.../...hacking lessons next
followed by my personal favourite,eyeball bowling. ?
Gad to let him loose with a team.uggghhhh!!!!

As for the nine months..... just hilarious.
In a paper today I read where a NZ schoolboy rugby league player was suspended
for 2 years for stealing a $2000aus( approx = $NZ national debt  ;-)  ) bottle
of port from his host in Australia.
That is what I call responsible action.

So now all the youth in NZ have a top and bottom scale for achievement.
Play union and gouge= 9 months (I don't know too many women who gouged and stillend up getting 9 months)
Play League and steal= 2 years.

Out of curiosity,some months ago I posted about two teams who had an all in
and the ref got punched out.Whatever happened to those thugs.? Just curious.

>fair punishment and starting it in April makes it apply to the next NZ season - 
>the punishment is seen to be served  and virtually ends his career.

Would you like to play with/against a guy whose reputation includes
elbowing,hacking an opponents head and gouging.
It just would NEVER happen in Aus,and if it did I'd be the first to call
for a life ban .Our judiciary would ensure that player never represented
his country again.


*****************************************************************************
* Allan Creighton           Nature allows all, by its murderous laws:       *
* Dept of Computer Science  Incest and rape,all theft and parricide,        *
* University of Sydney      All Sodom's pleasures,Sappho's lesbian games,   *
*                           All that destroys and sends men to their graves.*
*                                " The Truth "   The  Marquis De Sade       *
*****************************************************************************
From: naicg@vax.oxford.ac.uk
Newsgroups: rec.sport.rugby
Subject: RFL results, 6th October
Date: 7 Oct 92 08:49:52 GMT
Organization: Oxford University VAX 6620

The first semi-final in each County Cup went as follows:
Lancashire Cup
Wigan 48 Oldham 8
Shaun Edwards scored his 18th try of the season. Frano Botica scored 
20 points, including 8 goals. Jason Robinson and Joe Lydon each 
added two tries. Despite winning the double for the last three seasons, 
this gives Wigan their first final appearance since 1988.

Yorkshire Cup
Sheffield E. 12 (Try: B.McGuire; Goals: M.Aston(4))
Hull 8 (Try: L.Jackson; Goals: P.Eastwood(2))

Sheffield continue their fine form, having won six games out of seven since 
the opening game. They will be appearing in their first major final, although 
they have won the second division premiership twice. Hull's try came after 
nine seconds of the first half, from a charged down kick. Sheffield's try 
was scored in a similar manner.

Back tomorrow with news of the other two games.

Ian
From: bruce@siesoft.co.uk (Bruce Beadle)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.rugby
Subject: RU Results 10/10/92
Date: 12 Oct 92 16:00:54 GMT
Organization: Siemens Nixdorf Information Systems Ltd.
X-Newsreader: Tin 1.1 PL4

As nobody else seems to be bothering, I thought I'd post these
scores. Please let me know if I am wasting my time, if you can get
this stuff from another source...

Courage Clubs Championship 10th October 1992

First Division

Bristol		12, Saracens		 7
Harlequins	22, London Scottish	22
Leicester	21, W. Hartlepool	 8
Northampton	11, Bath		 8
Orrell		 8, London Irish	12
Rugby		 3, Wasps		34

Second Division:

Coventry	38, Blackheath		15
Morley		12, Waterloo		27
Newc. Gosforth	28, Nottingham		 6
Richmond	28, Moseley		21
Rosslyn Park	13, Bedford		16
Wakefield	 6, Sale		12


--
bruce@siesoft.co.uk   Bruce C. Beadle, SNI, Bracknell RG12 8FZ England.
Phone : +44-344-850485 (Desk).  |  +44-344-862222 (Switchboard)
"Baldrick, your brain is like the great four headed haddock eating
fish monster of Aberdeen - it doesn't exist!"  
Newsgroups: rec.sport.rugby
From: a2824ag@sunmanager.LRZ-Muenchen.DE (Riaan de Jager)
Subject: BOK TEAM PLEASE!!!!
Organization: Leibniz-Rechenzentrum, Muenchen (Germany)
Date: Thu, 15 Oct 1992 10:29:06 GMT

Hi

Could someone please post the SA team for saturday. Info on the last 
match and player performances also welcomed.

Riaan [at last got a bloody french visa and going to Lyon] de Jager
-- 
 ---------------------------------------------------------------------------
|  Riaan de Jager           a2824ag@sunmanager.lrz-muenchen.de              | 
|  Leibniz Rechenzentrum    jager@informatik.tu-muenchen.de    |         /  | 
|  Barer Strasse 21 8000    Tel +49 89 2105 7402                \    *  /   | 
|  Muenchen 2                                                    \     /    |
|  Germany             - Supporter of the Green and Gold -        ;___/     |
 ---------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: fkhan@daisy.ee.und.ac.za (Feroz Khan)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.rugby
Subject: Springbok Side for first test against French.
Date: 16 Oct 92 17:07:17 GMT
Article-I.D.: daisy.1bmeq5INN20j
Distribution: world
Organization: Dept. Elec. Eng., Univ. Natal, Durban, S. Africa
NNTP-Posting-Host: daisy.ee.und.ac.za


Also the selectors have opted for Garth Wright as scrumhalf over Du Preez 
(not too much of a surprise). 

A big surprise is the omission of Drikus Hattingh who is one of few
players who has played consistently during the course of the tour so far.

I consider it a surpirse that they have opted for Naas Botha in place of
Hennie Le Roux (who is a reserve) considering he is having groin problems 
and his reluctance to commit himself when it comes to tackling and this 
could prove to be dangerous in light of the ability of the French to cut 
through the centre.

I'm impressed with the loose trio of Wahl Bartmann, Adriaan Richter and
Tiaan Strauss who are quick to the point of breakdown and I must pay
tribute to the selectors who have confidence in them.

With regards to the choice of Hugh Reece Edwards at fullback, I find it
surprising since Theo van Rensburg (in my opinion) did nothing to warrant
exclusion but it seems that the Springboks are opting to play percentage
game with "Botha kicking the leather of the ball"(Daily News, Durban,
15 October 1992).

Another surprise is the selection of Willie Hills (who was originally chosen
as a prop) at hooker over the specialist hookers Harry Roberts and Andries
Truscott.

The full team (with 5 new caps and 7 changes from the team that was
thrashed by the Aussies 26-3) to play the French in the 1st test is:

* = New Cap
+ = Change

15 *H Reece-Edwards 
11 *J Olivier
12  P Muller
13  D Gerber
14  J Small
10  N Botha (Captain)
9  +G Wright
1   J Styger
2  *W Hills
3  +H Rodgers
6   W Bartmann (Vice-Captain)
4   A Malan
5   A Geldenhuys
7  *A Richter
8  *T Strauss

Reserves:
R du Preez
H le Roux
T van Rensburg
H Roberts
D Hattingh
B Rossouw


Here's my R0.02 for the Springboks. See how they run.

Wishing them the best from the Guys at Elec.Eng at University of Natal
Durban.

-- Feroz
From: cep@cs.nott.ac.uk (Charlie Pearce)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.rugby
Subject: Re: This season's internationals
Date: 13 Oct 92 16:01:38 GMT
Organization: Nottingham University

In article <1992Oct13.132109.8083@bradford.ac.uk> S.Burke@bradford.ac.uk (S BURKE) writes:
>In article <1992Oct13.085422.530@cs.nott.ac.uk> cep@cs.nott.ac.uk () writes:
>>Can anybody give me the missing dates for the following internationals?
>>
>>England v Canada	17 October
>>France v South Africa	17 October
>>			24 October
>>England v South Africa	14 November
>>Ireland v Australia	?
>
>Can anybody tell me why the England v Canada game is being played at
>Wembley and not Twickers?

Yes - the East Stand at Twickenham is being rebuilt. They could only knock it
down after the Middlesex Sevens in May so it won't be finished until around
February, although the bottom tier of the three will be ready for the South
Africa match. Once finished the new stand will provide an extra 10,000 seats
and will join onto the existing North Stand (ie the NE corner will be filled).

Charlie