From: rjus@uonline.com (ren_just)
Newsgroups: alt.bbs
Subject: Re: MUD for TBBS?
Date: 24 Dec 92 13:25:52 GMT
Organization: Just Computers!

manes@magpie.nycenet.edu (Steve Manes) writes:
: ren_just (rjus@uonline.com) wrote:
: : I challenged you on this before, and you came up with a less than truthful
: : answer.  Can you please tell us exactly how much it costs to configure a
: : UNIX system with your "cheap" solutions.  And then when you are done with
: : that, calculate how much the learning curve is going to cost the place
: : because they are a DOS house only and don't know UNIX.  For all of the
: : installations that I have done with TBBS, it comes out dollars ahead over
: : what a UNIX installation would have cost.
: 
: Not that I want to enter the TBBS vs. Unix wars but your last
: statement is clearly untrue.  Larry's negative attitude towards TBBS
: (which, BTW, I happen to like very much, despite its limitations
: for some applications) is mirrored by your own negative attitude
: towards Unix so I suspect you haven't done much research into Unix
: solutions and pricing.  The cheapest way to go multiuser is with
: Coherent ($99) and one of the PD source code BBS distributions
: available at net archive sites.  Bang... a multiuser BBS for less
: than a hundred bucks.  Want more lines?  Add a dumb Digiboard.  Want
: database capabilities?  Use Bourne shell scripts (included with
: Coherent).  It may lack dBASE file compatibility but it also allows
: you to employ all the power of Unix (sed, awk, tr, spell, etc.) plus
: any custom extensions you have laying around or have downloaded from
: the internet... support for which, by the way, also comes included
: with Coherent (uucp), which also means support for Usenet via other
: PD programs like TIN, cnews, etc.
: 
: Coherent is the cheapest and isn't a spec Unix but if you want a
: full-blown Unix you can still go it cheaper than with TBBS.  ESIX
: discounts for $499 and USL is coming out with (or has recently
: come out with) a cheap SVR4 Unix.
: 
: There's no generic BBS user so there is no generic BBS application
: and no generic operating system for it to run on.  The point is that
: if you WANT to run a Unix BBS it can be done cheaply and effectively.
: For all its capabilities, TBBS is still an extremely pricey way to
: go, which isn't unknown in the Unix world either.  Commericial Unix
: BBS programs like TeamMate and Coconet are, IMHO, carry obscene
: price tags vs. value, especially given what one can do with a little
: ingenuity on a stock Unix box.
: -- 
: Stephen Manes					   manes@magpie.nycenet.edu
: Manes and Associates/Commontech-NoHo		   New York, NY, USA  =o&>o

As this message gets longer and longer.  Hate to tell you, but UNIX is my
favorite environment.  I own ESIX as well as Coherent and would love the
opportunity to install a BBS for a client running on one of these two
platforms.  I run a modified version of
XBBS and think it is great.  Lots of power on my system and newsfeeds 
besides.  But I hate to break the news.  My clients don't know what a newsfeed
is and could care less.  The systems I design aren't message based.  Sure, 
messages get exchanged, but this is for customer support. 

The part that irks me the most from the messages on here is that a customer
wants the best solution for their problem at the cheapest long-run cost.  I
am sorry to say, but the learning curve for UNIX is horrendous.  My goal as
a consultant is to allow these people to run their own system without my
intervention.  If you go into an office that is using DOS and there are
individuals familiar with DOS, they want an environment they feel comfortable
with.  This is a reality.  Coherent and UNIX are *NOT* cheap solutions by
the time you factor in the learning aspect.  I am really tired of the people
here on the net downplaying this aspect.  The free software is not so free
as well.  It costs a fair amount of time to compile and tweak these apps
to run.  At the typical charge-out rate, by the time you get done installing
UNIX and the app, you are easily in the same price range of TBBS.  Wake up
people!  You aren't doing a true apples to apples comparison. 

Issue #2.  On top of the above paragraph, many offices are familiar with dBASE.
It is a standard and many packages import/export from it.  Can you please name
a dBASE environment for Coherent?  It doesn't exist.   

In short, I am really tired of this attitude that we can cram UNIX down 
someone's throat because we feel it is the hottest environment out there.  I
could say the same about the Mac vs. DOS wars.  A lot of times it doesn't
matter what you think the best environment is, it depends on what the client
has and what will be a feasible solution.  I haven't found a single office
that has contacted me where UNIX was the best choice (and I am hoping).

Randy Just
uonline!rjus@infoserv.com

Newsgroups: alt.bbs