From: kilroy@gboro.glassboro.edu (Dr Nancy's Sweetie)
Subject: Re: Spiritual leadership in the home
Organization: Glassboro State College
Date: Fri, 24 Jul 1992 03:02:47 GMT


[ This gets a little heavy, but I think we're in a situation where somebody
  gives anti-Scriptural advice based more on pop psychology than on following
  Jesus.  My own, hopefully constructive, advice is at the bottom. ]


Carol Nemec writes that she believes men are responsible for spiritual
leadership in the family, and that her husband does not take an active enough
role in controlling his family's activities.  (Though she does not say what,
precisely, she would like him to do.  Examples might be helpful.)

I can only reply by asking what right she has to question the kind of
leadership he exercises?  If he is supposed to be your spiritual leader, then
you seem to be stuck with accepting his methods.  His interpretation of the
Scriptures, and his efforts to abide by them while also satisfying the needs
and wants of his family, may well be more complex than you know.  Why are you
asking 10,000 strangers instead of asking him?

If this is his style of leadership, aren't you being "insubordinate" by trying
to make him act differently?  So far as I can make out, your position is "He
is my spiritual leader, but he's not leading me how I want to be led.  I want
to tell him what to do, so he'll lead me that way I want."

If he's supposed to be the leader, why do you want to tell him what to do?

 --

Under the heading of "worst advice ever seen on Christia", Roger Phyall
gave two possible steps:

> Come up with a decision that you feel YOU need spritual counseling on with
> his help.  [...]  Having explained ahead of time what you are really
> getting counseling for & your cover topic to your counselor.  You and your
> counselor proceed to *gang up* on your 'hubby' and educate scripturally what
> his *job/role* is.

In other words, lie to your husband and conspire with another person to impose
your interpretation of Scripture on him.  Even though he's your spiritual
leader, what he does isn't what you want so you have to push him into
something he apparently does not believe he should be doing.  In order to
accomplish this you'll intentionally bear false witness.  Mr Phyall, how do
you justify telling a Christian wife to lie to her husband?  What verse of
Scripture endorses the deception your recommend?


Mr Phyall then recommends compounding dishonesty with disobedience:

> Take the "bull by the horns" having girded yourself and the kids for what
> could occur, and make *NO DECISIONS* for him.  "Honey, what do you think"s
> are allowed as long as the final word still comes from him.  Caution, you
> may run out of food because he will not decide if/when/who is going
> shopping.  [...]  Empty bellies learn very quickly.

What if he says "You're in charge of the cooking and the kitchen; take care of
it." ?  Do you suggest that Ms Nemec refuse?  She's to impose her idea of the
Bible on her spiritual leader by refusing to help him with anything?  That's
your idea of how to help a marriage?

Please tell us what Scripture passages justify telling a wife to do nothing
unless she's specificially told to.


Not satisfied with dishonesty and disobedience, we finally turn to the realm
of Pavlov and Skinner:

> This method(s) has been used before to return some of chivary's acts such as
> opening car doors (eventho it gets somewhat cold in that street in the
> winter), attending the chair at the table (tho the ol' stomach gets
> ferocious standing there looking at that food), and such.

... and if he doesn't salivate when you ring the bell, get him with the
cattleprod!

I sincerely hope that nobody will listen to any of Mr Phyall's advice for a
single second; why somebody would post to a Christian list and tell a follower
of Jesus to deceive her husband I cannot imagine.  I doubt that Mr Phyall can
find a single verse of Scripture to back up any of the garbage that he's
dumped here today.

Please tell us, if you have time, what Bible verses say that a husband has to
open the doors for his wife and pull out chairs for her.

 --

My advice is this: tell him, in plain English, exactly what you think.  Use
short, declarative sentences.  Do not say "When are you going to start living
by the Scriptures?" or other riddles.  Say "I believe that such-and-so
Scripture verse means you are supposed to be the family's spiritual leader,
and I feel that I need more leadership."  Then tell him, in plain English,
what areas you wish were more structured.  Ask if he was aware of your wishes;
ask why he does things the way he does them; ask if there's something that
maybe you didn't think of.

For all you know, it may be that he suffers from "education indecision".  Some
educated people often have trouble making decisions because they try to look
at all sides of a problem and consider everything.  But they get bogged down
in too many variables over trivial decisions and have trouble getting things
done.  (I know several people like this.)  If he does this, then simply
knowing that he does it will help overcome it in cases where the decision
isn't a major one.

Perhaps he's afraid of becoming a crutch that you lean on; if he does too
much, then you'll be in trouble if you have to get along without him.

Perhaps he's worried that if he makes too many decisions he'll stifle your
spiritual growth, and he's over-compensating.

Perhaps he disagrees with your interpretation of the Bible, and feels that
some areas of your spiritual life are not under his domain.


I have no idea; I doubt anybody else reading this newsgroup has any idea.
You should be asking him.  Show him your post, and all the other posts.  Ask
what he thinks.

The one thing I AM certain of is that married couples must be able to trust
each other.  You should never, under any circumstances, use deception to get a
counselor to "gang up" on him.  Tricking someone into doing what you want has
no place in a Christian marriage.  That kind of idiotic rubbish should be
relegated to television sitcoms, where it belongs.


Darren F Provine / kilroy@gboro.glassboro.edu
"Love does not delight in evil but rejoices with the truth.  It always
 protects, always trusts, always hopes, always perseveres." -- St Paul
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