From: ravid@herky.cs.uiowa.edu (Ravi Dronamraju )
Subject: Re: 14 August.....
Date: Fri, 11 Sep 1992 21:55:08 GMT
Organization: University of Iowa, Iowa City, IA, USA

From article <94967@bu.edu>, by amuh2@bu-pub.bu.edu (muhammad ahmed):
> 
>  Your reply to my E-mail fails to answer the points raised by me. It seeems you are still living in the Era of JAHALAT. This comes to me as no surprise as your articles in SCP are filled with the usual rhetoric that is being taught as "HISTORY" in your country. Although it is highly unlikely that a fanatic like you could be convinced by reasoning, I reckon it to be still worth an effort;
> 
>       Shayad kay teray dil may utter jaey meri baat
> 

 I would like to know what all these poems interspersed mean
 Can you be kind enough to post this article again with their meaning??

 -Ravi



>> WHEN DOES YOUR HISTORY START?....
> 
>    
> I will still maintain that HISTORICALLY PAKISTAN WAS NEVER PART OF INDIA. Todays Pakistan has no significant history. It, however, does have a certain BUDH history but that too has a little, if any at all, significance to our present. History only tells about the past, and that does not mean that we should start living in past. One does not start living like a stone-age man just because that has been a part of history.
> 
> Pakistan came into existence well before 1947, I.E. when the very first hindu converted to Islam. To understend this philosophical claim you need to have a clear impartial state of mind as well as a thorough knowledge of ISLAMIC concept of nationalism, which you lack, sadly. Once again I would like to quote Allama Muhammad Iqbal on the concept of muslim Nationalism;
> 
>          Apni millat ka qayyas aqwam-e-maghrib pay na ker
>          Khas hay tarkeeb may qaum-e-rasool-e-hashmi
> 
>>When I mean Pakistan I also include the GHANDARA age which is present >Afghanistan.
> 
> You must realize that the underlying basis to unite different people as a nation is atleast one common denominator among the people, such as idealogy, religion, ethnicity, language, norms, culture etc "AND NOT HISTORY". WHAT DO YOU SEE IN COMMON IN AN AFGHAN AND YOURSELF????
> 
>>During the time of Ikshwakus an Iranian princess was married to DASHARTHA...
> 
> What significance does this marriage has either on your or Iranian history? If you mean by this that Persia should be a part of AKHAND BHARAT then by your logic Egypt should also be a part of your AKHAND BHARAT as late Shah of Iran's son got married to Sadat's daughter. And, perhaps, Italy as well. :)
> 
>>Its true that during the ISLAMIC CRUSADES India was weak internally and we all
>                                                                          ^^
>>lost, ...
> 
> What do you mean by "WE" here. Definitely "YOU" were the losers then and you are the losers now. For us it was the dawn of the ultimate enlightenment and the begining of very own history. BTW, you have never been strong internally. Every Tom, Dick and Harry had bulldozed you whenever they felt like doing so. You are not even any stronger today. As I have pointed out in my E-mail that Punjab, Assam, Tamil Nadu etc are at the brinck of disintegration from India. I puposely did'nt include Kasmir above a
> 
> 
> 
> as never belonged to India. You must realize that this an era of search of one's identity and cause of bondage as a nation. India is bound to disintegrate due to the lack of any common bond.
> 
>> you would be happy to note that HINDUS thru out country revolted to save the >country, to break the shackles.
> 
>           Kya Piddi aur kya Piddi ka shorba.
> 
> It is a BUNYA mentality to seek his monetary interests under any situation. All along the British rule you had expexcted to be rewarded with share in power. Thus you had no motives or even enough courage to revolt. As long as British were strong you enjoyed as their yes-men. And it were the muslims like Haider Ali, Tipu Sultan, Nawab Sirajudolla, Shah Vali Ullah, Syed Ahmad Shaheed, Titu Meer, Hosh Muhammad Sheedi, and many more who scripted OUR history of Independence with their blood. As soon as Br
> 
> 
> 
> got weaker by the WW2 (not Wasim & Waqar), you as was expected by the typical Bunya mentality, turned against them under the non-violent hypocritic leadership of messers Gandhi and Nehru from a platform (Congress) that too was formed by a Brit. This is what's called Namak Harami!!!!
> 
>>But it was also during this time when we were in DARK not exactly knowing whom >to believe whom not to.
> 
> You are still in DARK and Confused.
> 
>>I can understand your frustration being a poor nation, but also realise that in >collectivity we are a major force in the world. ARE WE NOT RESPONSIBLE for our >poverty? WE DIVIDED OUR NATION, THEN FIGHTING AMONG OURSELVES and then get >frustrated with our poverty. FRUSTRATION is GOOD but should be diverted to >COSTRUCTION.
> 
> Your posting articles in SCP is an evidence of "YOUR" frustration. You seem to be desperately seeking sympathy using your theory of AKHAND BHARAT.
> 
>  Although the countries in South Asia are generally poor, Pakistan is quite well off with better per capita income, industrial growth and potential for growth as compared to the other countries of the region. 
> 
> Majority of people in India are surviving in below poverty level conditions. The only source of protein (honorable) for people in certain parts of Bengal is worms from filthy ponds (source WHO and CNN). So you should not be shocked when BOB COSTAS comes along to remind you of your state of poverty. HAVE YOU EVER GIVEN IT A THOUGHT WHY IS IT SO?  If not, let me help you. It is the intellectuals like you who believe in AKHAND BHARAT as the solution to all your  problems. But as we can all see this mech
> 
> 
> 
> is working the other way. Ironically, your leadership is still busy in burning country's resources in AGNI, caring less for millions of mouths to feed. Let me again enlighten you with poet philosopher Iqbal's saying;
> 
>          Jis khet kay dehkaN ko muyyassar na ho rozi
>          Uss khet kay her khosha-e-gandum ko jalaa do.
> 
> The solution of your problems lies in the further division of India like your ex-masters the Soviet Union. That's the only key to your noticeable survival.
> 
>> KNOW THAT YOU CAN STAND UP IN THE WORLD AS BHARAT WITH OUT ALMS OF U.S.A. 
> 
> Every developing country needs assistance for its progress and defence. Especially, when the country shares its boundaries with fanatic neighbours having evil designs of expansion to achieve "AKHAND BHARAT". Yet we have managed to improve the condition of our masses.
> 
>>Its high time we realise our lost bonds.
> 
> Refer to the earlier discussion.
> 
>>HOW MANY YEARS WILL YOU BE IN THE ILLUSION and LIVE an existence of NON-HINDU.
> 
> The hindu state of existence has been elaborated previously. I can only add;
> 
>              Yeh jeena bhi koyee jeena hay lalloo.
> 
>>DO REMEMBER 65 and 72 before you talk anything about KASHMIR
> 
> For a better view of the exact situation of 65 war please refer to New York Times, Newsweek, and Times of London, dating from March 65 to October 65.
> 
> As far as 71 (not 72) is concerned, that has been the  whole point of our discussion. Both of us have been better off since then.
> 
>>YOU STILL BELIEVE IN JINNAH and OTHERS who could really not get anything by >themselves and could not assimilate in the nation and thus started groups that >were cancerous and lived like parasites. Thus when we really got the >INDEPENDENCE the parasites groups had their share. 
> 
> Jinnah and our other leaders were men of principles and were clear minded and fore sighted all along. There were no hypocracies and contradictions in their characters like Gandhi and Nehru had. Gandhi believed in indigenous-ness, perhaps thats why he was always almost naked. Whereas his right hand Nehru was just the opposite believing in the philosophy of 
> 
>     Mera joota hay Japani, Yeh patloon Inglistani
>     Sir pay laal topi Russi, dil hay phir bhi hindustani.
> 
>>***    GARV SE KAHO   HUM HINDU HAI ***
> 
>             ToR day butt khana-e-azar kay sub laat-o-manat
>             Muntizar hay teree zarb-e-la illah ka somnat.
> 
> ISLAM ZINDABAD
> PAKISTAN PAINDABAD.
> 
> Muhammad Ahmed.
>  
> 
> 
> 
>