HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: ahmad@seas.gwu.edu (Aftab Ahmad)
Subject: Re: Gallery of Freedom Fighters 
Originator: ahmad@seas.gwu.edu
Organization: George Washington University
Date: Wed, 19 Aug 1992 15:46:35 GMT


	Nadeem Malik wrtes:
khan@ces.cwru.edu (Mansoor Khan) writes:
: 
: 
: 		Gallery of Freedom Fighters
: 		===========================
: 
: 	Pakistan International Airlines( PIA) published 
: a diary on The Golden Jubilee celeberation of Pakistan Resolution
: in 1990. Along with lots of stuff on the history of Pakistan Movement,
: it also contained profiles of some of the freedom fighters.
: I hope to post these articles on S.C.P for the benefit of its
: readers all over the world.
: 
: Mansoor Khan
: Cleveland, Ohio.
: 
: P.S. The diary talks about following people,
: 
: 	Sir Syed Ahmed Khan, Hasan Ali Effendi, Mohsin-ul-mulk Mehdi Ali Khan,
: Navab Viqar-ul-Mulk, Sir Sultan Muhamad Shah( The Aga Khan III),
: Maulana Obaidullah Sindhi,  Maulana Shaukat ALi, Maulana Muhammad Ali( Johar),
: Hakim Ajmal Khan, Navab Salimullah( of Dhaka), Maulana Hasrat Mohani,
: Maulana Zafar Ali Khan, Chaudhary Rahmat Ali( who gave Pakistan its name),
: Dr. Allama Muhammad Iqbal, Maulvi A.K. Fazlul Haq(Sher-e-Bengal),
: Chaudhary Khaliquzzama'n( who was elder brother of famous Dr. Salimuzzama'n
: Siddiqee of Pakistan), Sir Abdullah Haroon, Navab Bahadur Yar Jang,
: Hussain Shaheed Suhrawardy, Raja Sahib of Mahmoodabad( Amir Ahmad Khan),
: Khwaja Nazimuddin(2nd Gov. Gen and 2nd Primeminister of Pakistan),
: Navab Muhammad Ismail Khan, Sardar Abdur Rab Nishter, Allama Shabbir Usmani,
: Ms. Fatima Jinnah, Begum Shahnavaz, Lady Haroon, Liaquat Ali Khan,
: and Mohammad Ali Jinnah( Quaid-e-Azam).
: 
: ==

There are two notable ommissions from this list:

Hazrat Mirza Bashiruddin Mahmud Ahmad (2nd Khalifa, Ahmadiyya Movement In Islam)
He led the Kashmiri Independence Movement for afew years before Partition.


and 

Sir Muhammad Zafarullah Khan, First Foreign Minister of Pakistan appointed
directly by the Qaid-e-azam. He was also an emminent Judge, serving for two
sessions as the senior Judge at the International Court Of Justice. He was
also presented of the U.N. General Assembly for one session.


Off course, their ommission has got nothing to do with the fact that they were
both Ahmadi Muslims! I guess there must be some other reason.

-Nadeem Malik

p.s. No flames will be responded to.


	

	The involvement of Ahmadies in Pakistani politics has
	been not only prominent but also been appreciated by
	many leaders, including Jinnah, the Qaid-e-Azam of the
	movement. Since Bhutto's era, it has been made less
	known to the public for some unknown reason.
	An Ahmadi friend told me that when M.A.Jinna left
	India (permanently?) around 1929(?) desparate of
	the Hindu-Muslim confrontation, it was an Ahmadi who
	met him in England and convinced him to come back 
	and work for the ML. In text books I have read that
	it was Liaqat Ali. If it is a fact that it was an
	Ahmadi who convinced Jinnah come back to India, it
	is not far from believing that their role in the
	movement was far more than what we know from text books.

	Anyone there???
regards,

aftab ahmad
From: ahussain@prism.poly.edu (Arshad Hussain)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.pakistan
Subject: Woody Allen Joke
Date: 20 Aug 92 21:00:45 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: Polytechnic University, New York

>From: ali@mcclb0.med.nyu.edu
>Subject: Woody Allen Joke 

>Did you hear the title of Woody Allen's latest movie??
>
>Its called 'Honey I slept with the kids'

19-year old Adopted Kid!!!! 
Abhi to main Jawaan Hoon

'Honey, I molested a 7-year kid'

Even polygyny offers no soluton for that.

>jahanara

Arshad
Newsgroups: soc.culture.pakistan
From: ahussain@prism.poly.edu (Arshad Hussain)
Subject: Re: Dear deb/ Al-Islam
Organization: Polytechnic University, New York
Distribution: na
Date: Tue, 18 Aug 92 19:10:20 GMT

>From: debchat@vax2.concordia.ca (DEB CHATTERJEE)
>Subject: Re: Dear deb/ Al-Islam
 >  ......               Moderates always tried to appeal to the weak-minds
 >via their escapist `ahimsa' policy -teaching the people to reject the struggle
 >achieveable (sp.?) via armed resistance. This, is what I hate about the 
 >moderates in both INC and Muslim League (Sir Syed Ahmed).

 You hate Sir Syed 100 years after he died? Muslim League was formed in
1905-6( 10 years after Sir Syed died). He was one of the greatest muslims ever
born in India. He was NOT a politician. He was an EDUCATOR for muslims.
He was not moderate. He revolutionized the Islamic thoughts.

Yes, he said Hindu and Muslims cannot live together. Does it means he
was politically corrupt? He did not appeal to weak-minded. Led by Mullahs, the 
illiterates were after him calling him Kafir.

>[1] Muhammad Asghar Khan (ed.), "Islam, Politics and the State: A Pakistan 
>    Experience ", Zed Books, London, 1985. (Read Ch. 4 by Ziaul Haque).

I scanned through this book 4-years ago. It is not relevant to the issues
I was discussing.

Arshad

PS: In one letter, you talk about independent issues or  sometime
mutually orthogonal issues. Please dont let your vast knowledge overflow.
Newsgroups: soc.culture.pakistan
From: obaidr@ecf.toronto.edu (OBAID ARIF)
Subject: Re: Bosnia: Another Spain? (The need for urgent Muslim Action )
Organization: University of Toronto, Engineering Computing Facility
Date: Sun, 23 Aug 1992 04:22:52 GMT

In article <2884@ucl-cs.uucp> B.Kumar@cs.ucl.ac.uk writes:
>( The situation in Bosnia is really very very bad and unimaginable
>brutality has been done by both sides on innocents citizens belonging 
>to other side of ethnic devide.) 
>
>Though above steps may help, but, I think, muslim "brothers" in Bosnia will 
>be better served by sending 200,000 soldiers from country like Pakistan- a 
>great islamic power that maintains over 800,000 muslim soldiers and reserves.
>I am sure that 200,000 muslim soldiers should be sufficient to defeat an 
>army of just about 40,000 to 50,000 serbian army of christian "brothers".
>Condemining serbian agression is not sufficeint.
>
>What is the use of maintaining such a big muslim army, if muslim "brothers" 
>are sufferring terrible brutality in the hands of non-muslims "brothers".
>Please write to  prime minister and presidents of Pakistan to send
>army to fight in Bosnia and save the life of muslim "brothers".
>
	They would if they were REAL Muslim Brothers.  They would if they
	ever stop trying to please their master...America! They would if they
	had an ounce of humanity.....all they are concerned about are their
	pockets and their seats!

	
>No flame please. 
>
>regards,
>
>bkumar alias b. khan

Arif.

Newsgroups: soc.culture.pakistan
From: arkay@leland.Stanford.EDU (Abdur Khan)
Subject: Re: Mild warning
Organization: DSG, Stanford University, CA 94305, USA
Date: Fri, 14 Aug 92 05:24:02 GMT


>I agree with some SCPians have incredible tilt towards right.

these fascist pigs. 

>
>I was brought with lot of open-mindedness. Islam was not a matter
>of everyday discussion. As a result, all my brothers and sisters
>have somewhat different attitudes to Islam and religion and we all
>live peacefully together. A very heathly sign.
>

naveed sahib,

whether you live peacefully with your brothers and sisters is not the
proble. Whether you can live with GOD and accept his will and not your own.

sahibzada rafay khan[ are mullahs conservative]
>regards,
>
>-Naveed
From: ag3l+@andrew.cmu.edu (Arun K. Gupta)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.pakistan
Subject: RE: PAKISTAN AND INDIA
Date: 15 Aug 92 17:34:18 GMT
Article-I.D.: andrew.8eXP2O600VogAF4Wpz
Organization: Physics, Carnegie Mellon, Pittsburgh, PA


Pakistan will never make a complete break with India.
After all their cricket team needs somebody to beat :-):-)
-arun
Newsgroups: soc.culture.pakistan,rec.sport.cricket,rec.sport.hockey.field
From: amatin@prism.poly.edu (Akbar Matin)
Subject: Re: Please Help...
Organization: Polytechnic University, New York
Date: Thu, 13 Aug 92 13:45:30 GMT



		Attn: Dr. Sanjiv Gossain

	I don't want to be polite. People like you can go to hell. I got a
very good response to my queries. If you don't want to read such stuff just
go on to the next one. It doesn't take long to do so unless you are a very
lazy guy. All of this definitely sounds rude 'coz it's meant to be like that.

	I'd also like to take this opportunity to thank all those who sent 
me answers to my questions individually and on the network.

	Take care.





Newsgroups: soc.culture.pakistan
From: ahussain@prism.poly.edu (Arshad Hussain)
Subject: Re: Multiple wives
Organization: Polytechnic University, New York
Date: Fri, 21 Aug 92 21:24:37 GMT

>From: ali@mcclb0.med.nyu.edu
>Subject: Re: Multiple wives

>In article <1992Aug18.101149.30461@davidsys.com>, merchant@davidsys.com (Rukhsana Merchant) writes:
>> 
>> 	The point of Islam allowing multiple wives is not an issue that
>> is debatable.  It is allowed and it is the sunnah of Prophet Muhammed (phuh)
>> and it is still valid today as it was fourteen centuries ago. 

Once, I asked a great Ahl-Hadith scholar and member of the Islamic Ideology
Counsel of Pakistan, Late Maulaana Mohammad Haneef Nadvi a question.

Q: What is your opinion on the Theory of Abrogation regarding Quranic verses?
A: Mian! it is the TIME that abrogates. For example, there are a number
   of verses in Quran regarding slave women. One third of our FIQHA deals only
   with this issue: their rights, duties, support, marriages, children, 
   distribution of wealth among them etc. This issue does not exists any more.

BTW, I do not belong to that sect of Islam(I am an orthodox sunni ahmadi) but
I could never have solved the issue of polygyny without this argument.

                       POLYGYNY IS ABROGATED

Ms Merchant, Time has advanced, same with civilization. No slavery, no polygyny.

>> There are  **reasons why** it is permitted and the guidelines in Islam are
>> for all people and all time.

Tell me **one**!! 
Why the hell do I  carry  'Dont Dare' threat in my pocket all the time.
I 'll appreciate your help.


Arshad
From: tahassan@lonestar.utsa.edu (Tawfiq . Hassan)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.pakistan
Subject: Punjabi Night Celebration in San Antonio...
Date: 22 Aug 92 06:37:03 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: University of Texas at San Antonio

Hi guys!

On behalf of the Punjabi Group of San Antonio let me welcome you
all to the wonderful "PUNJABI NIGHT"...

            Folk Dances of Punjab, North Indian State
Join us for a fun-filled, entertaining and educational evening!!

                            September 5th, '92
                            6:00 - 10:00 pm
                Churchill High School, San Antonio, Texas

                                FOOD!!
                    Enjoy North Indian Cuisine
                    Food & Social 6:00 - 7:30 pm

                            Entertainment!!
                    A Delightful variety program
                    Bhangra, Gidha, Punjabi Geet,
                    Fashion Show, and much more...
                    Program I       7:30 - 8:30 pm
                    Intermission    8:30 - 8:45 pm
                    Program II      8:45 - 10:00 pm

                        For tickets or Information
                    Dr. or Mrs. Mangat (512) 661-6135
                    Mr. or Mrs. Rai    (512) 699-3078
                    Mr. or Mrs. Gill   (512) 698-1982
                    Dr. or Mrs. Singh  (512) 697-3459
                    Mr. or Mrs. Bains  (512) 696-6692

                            Ticket Prices:
                    Adults :                 $5.00
                    Children under 12 yrs. : $2.00

We are expecting about 450 people, so see you there...

Sincerely,
From: shah@orange.tutee.tut.ac.jp (Q. H. Shah)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.pakistan
Subject: Re: Need comments about latest indian movies
Date: 10 Aug 92 01:00:27 GMT
	<1992Aug4.001656.3152@newton.ccs.tuns.ca>
Organization: Kanto Lab., Dept. Ener. Eng., Toyohashi Univ. Tech.

We must be very careful about indian muslims because many of them may not be
muslims at all but they use muslim names and post such articles that muslims
may fight against each other. We have few of them around here too.
--

                          o=====================o
                          |  QASIM HUSSAIN SHAH |    
                          |  TOYOHASHI    JAPAN | 
                          o=====================o

=================================================
FARD-E-MILLAT RABT QAAIM SE HAI TINHA KUCH NAHIEN
MOJ HAI DARYA MEIN AUR BEROON-E-DARYA KUCH NAHIEN
=================================================
Xref: sparky soc.culture.pakistan:14039 soc.culture.indian:29091
From: msardar@digi.lonestar.org (Mohammed Tariq Sardar)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.pakistan,soc.culture.indian
Subject: DESI JOKES (adults)  #7
Date: 21 Aug 92 19:15:26 GMT
Distribution: na
Organization: DSC Communications, Plano Tx.

No discriminations are intended towards any minority group, purpose of
the joke is to build bridges and see the lighter side of our culture.



	 Title of the Joke:	     MEHMANN
 				     -------


*********************WARNING WARNING AUTHOR DOES NOT TAKE RESPONSIBILITY**************


Definition of MEHMANN : " A guest"

A PUNJABI is visiting some distant relations, after waiting for several hours
its becoming more and more clear that his hosts are not going to offer him any food.
Being a PUNJABI he tells his host :

	SALLAY, AGAR ROTI NAIN DANEE,  GHAND HE MAROO LOO, KUCCH TAA ANDAR JYAA
          
	(If you are not going to offer me any food at least screw me, that way
	 i'll have some thing going inside me).



						Tariq Sardar
From: D.Tambunan@massey.ac.nz (D. Tambunan)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.pakistan,soc.culture.afghanistan,soc.culture.bangladesh,soc.culture.india,soc.culture.asean,soc.culture.yugoslavia,soc.culture.iranian,soc.culture.african
Subject: Re: Bosnia: Another Spain? (The need for urgent Muslim Action )
Keywords: bosnia
Date: 23 Aug 92 11:40:11 GMT
Organization: Massey University, Palmerston North, New Zealand
X-Reader: NETNEWS/PC Version 2c

eoahmad@ntuix.ntu.ac.sg (Othman Ahmad):
>The cruel serbs are not true christians and unfortunately they
>were communist trained and indoctrinated. Unfortunately morality
>in formerly christian people are not as strictly followed as in
>formerly muslim people.

To what Muslim category do the Bosnians belong to? True Muslims or
untrue Muslims?

>Islam is very slow in converting because the penalty for apostasy
>is high, forceful conversion is against Islam, and really drummed
>up in Islamic teachings.

On the other hand convertion from Islam to another religion is
punishable in some Islamic countries. This is one issue that the
Amnesty International is currently dealing with. Recently in
Pakistan, a man was arrested after converting to Christian. He was
beaten up to death in jail. His mother was forced to bury him under
a Muslim way. Obviously the police never acknowledeged
the true reason behind his death.

Just another question: whereas criteria for being a true Muslim are
clear (as stated in Quran), how do you categorize Muslims in
countries like Malaysia and Indonesia. Are they true Muslims?.

--
>Othman bin Ahmad, School of EEE,
>Nanyang Technological University, Singapore 2263.

Cheers,
don

ps. You may say there is a newsgroup (alt religius islam (?) to
discuss this issue.
Xref: sparky soc.culture.pakistan:13751 soc.culture.indian:28320
Newsgroups: soc.culture.pakistan,soc.culture.indian
Subject: Re: Contradictions in the Qu'ran
From: vivek@ecst.csuchico.edu (Vivek R. Prabhu)
Date: Sun, 16 Aug 1992 04:08:20 GMT
Organization: California State University, Chico

In article <1992Aug15.175035@IASTATE.EDU> jakhan@IASTATE.EDU (Javed A Khan) writes:
>
>
>
>
>I agree with you when you say that we are (at least I am) influenced to some 
>extent by western ideas. But its unfair to assume that it implies a blind
>acceptance of their values and customs by these 'modernist' muslims and that it
>leads them to surrender their right to think and form an opinion on social 
>matters.


Even many Hindus are guilty of the same approach of blindly aping the west, 
and, it only serves to perpetuate the myth that the Western sense of values 
is the best.


>
>By the way I was told that in the Hindu (Personal) Law it is a non-cognisible
>offense if a Hindu male takes on a second wife without the consent of the 
>first wife. But if the first wife consents the husband may not be prosecuted. 
>I dont know how far this is true.

>Perhaps someone more knowledgable might want to comment. 
>But if this is true then this would be polygamy not objected to by law and
>identical to polygamy allowed by the Qu'ran !!!! 
>
>--Javed.



Sadly speaking this is true. In fact it is required by the Law that the first
wife has to take up the matter,  and if she gives her consent to the marriage
(the second one) of her husband then there is nothing the Law can do about it
except maybe that it can be amended.

An interesting side-light is that in the case of polyandry if all the parties
concerned have given their consent, then too, the Law is helpless. This is of
relevance particularly in a case in U.P. where a woman loved by two engineers
of the PWD,  and she loved them both,  were married, and to this day the U.P.
Govt. has not been able to decide what to do. The main reason for all parties
consenting in this case was the fact that the two guys were friends.

Regards,
Vivek.


-- 
vivek@cscihp.ecst.csuchico.edu (Vivek R. Prabhu),
Research Assistant, Department Of Computer Science, 
School Of Engineering, Computer Science And Technology,
California State University, Chico, California.
From: aq0@engr.uark.edu (Amer Qureshi)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.pakistan
Subject: Re: Asma Jhagir: Human Right Activist
Date: 19 Aug 92 21:17:42 GMT
Organization: University of Arkansas

aq0@engr.uark.edu (Amer Qureshi) writes:

>ahussain@prism.poly.edu (Arshad Hussain) writes:
>
>>>From: myadav@ruhets.rutgers.edu (Mahesh Yadav)
>>>
>>>Times of India Aug,5,1992
>>>The Times of India News Service
>>>NEW DELHI, Aug 4:
>>>
>>>	Women of Indian subcontinent suffer disrespect and indignity, 
>>>Ms  Asma Jhangir, secretary-general of the Human Rights Association of 
>>>Pakistan said here yesterday.
>>
>>
>

       *****************stuff deleted*************************
>
>
>THE INTERESTING RESULTS WERE...........
>
>after that story was aired....
>
>a) a PAKI dude who was about to marry an AMERIKAN had to sign up
>   a pre-nuptial agreement that, she would not go to waten-e-aziz
>   with him.
>
>b) many cool PAKI dudes lost their AMERIKAN sweet hearts.
>
>c) now RAFEY ABDUR KHAN would know, why is so to find a BLONDE.
                                     why it is so hard to find a blonde.
               (a correction)
>

>Amer[why ask why, try a brunette] Qureshi.
From: mughal@iago.caltech.edu (ASIM M MUGHAL)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.pakistan
Subject: Re: Multiple wives
Date: 23 Aug 92 06:58:00 GMT
Organization: California Institute of Technology
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41

In article <1992Aug21.165517.30472@davidsys.com>, merchant@davidsys.com (Rukhsana Merchant) writes...
>In article <1992Aug21.163826.30471@davidsys.com>, merchant@davidsys.com (Rukhsana Merchant) writes:
>> IMHO, a woman is not suited to a relationship with more than one husband.
>> It has to do with the way a woman loves, but I will stop here, since it is

     Hmm... what way is it different than how a man loves? He is willing to
     give up *everthing* for her!
     {play Mr. Bolton's song 'When the man loves a woman'}

>> more of a personal opinion. 
>>> 
>> -Rukhsana Merchant
> 
>A second point is that men are not able to deal with past relationships
>of women, no matter their own past relationships.  It is not in man's
>nature to share his wife with another.  

     Very true. Not just men, our indo-pak society as well. Even if the man
somehow comes to terms with it, the family & friends will not (including
female relatives). They will never accept the woman with past relationships.

     In Western society, the women normally forgive their spouses for 
extra marital affairs and try to 'work things out' but in the reverse situation
the marriage is bound to dissolve.

> 
>The obligations and duties may not be identical but they also best
>suit the nature of each of the sexes.  Trying to say that Islam is 
>sexist because something given to one sex is not given to the other
>is not correct because there are benefits given to one that are
>not given to the other and visa versa.  They have different obligations
>and rights but there is equality.

Agreed. 'My sentiments(understanding) exactly.' As I would say :)

> 
>-Rukhsana Merchant 

Asim Mughal
[Standard Disclaimer]
Newsgroups: soc.culture.pakistan,soc.culture.indian
From: dasu@sscux1.ssc.gov (Sridhara Dasu)
Subject: Re: USA and the Gulf War
Organization: SSC Laboratory, Dallas, TX
Date: Fri, 21 Aug 1992 23:47:15 GMT

In article <1992Aug21.091658@IASTATE.EDU> jakhan@IASTATE.EDU (Javed A Khan) writes:

...
> Again Bush, in his acceptance speech, reminded the delegates that he had
> served American Natl. interest by preserving American access to Middle East
> oil (paraphrase).
...
   --Javed.

I woke up to Bush's voice on NPR this morning and I though he said 
"our energy sources" instead of "Middle East oil". That seems to sum
up what Bush and the like feel. Middle East oil is theirs and nobody has
a right to prevent American access to it.

			- Sridhara

ps. I don't mean to support Saddam by any means but I am just suggesting
that American interest is well spelt out, and is by no means noble.
From: ag3l+@andrew.cmu.edu (Arun K. Gupta)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.pakistan
Subject: Re: Polygamy and Polyandry
Date: 16 Aug 92 20:14:12 GMT
Organization: Physics, Carnegie Mellon, Pittsburgh, PA


  An atheistic and rational view of `why get married ?' , `why not
just live together ?' is that marriage is a way of registering the
contract and making sure that both partners know the rights and
responsibilities that go with it. This includes the way the property
is to be settled in case of divorce, child-support, inheritance, etc.
etc. etc., even upto who in next-of-kin in case permission is needed
for emergency surgery or turning off life support. Without the formality
of marriage, the rights of live-in partners would have to be continually
negotiated in the courts.

Thus there are sound reasons for a notion of marriage. Similarly, Nadeem
Malik's argument that polygamy ought to be allowed for similar reasons
(to keep things above-board) makes sense.

On the other hand, society has to enforce the rules that go with these
institutions. For example, in this country, it seems that many men ignore
the responsibility of child-support and get away scot-free. In such cases,
the logic of a legal recognition of a marriage relationship is lost --
society is not implementing the protections that it promised.

Thus, as a friend pointed out, when a woman is financially dependent on
her husband, then polygamy or concubine, her ability to protest her husband's
behavior is severely limited, and once again, laws which were meant to protect
do not serve the purpose.

-arun gupta
ag3L@andrew.cmu.edu
Newsgroups: soc.culture.pakistan