From: Cannam@sc.ZIB-Berlin.de (Chris Cannam)
Newsgroups: alt.flame
Subject: Re: Girls & alt.flame
Date: 27 Jan 93 11:16:59
Organization: Konrad Zuse Zentrum fuer Informationstechnik Berlin
Distribution: alt
	<CANNAM.93Jan26115608@borodin.sc.ZIB-Berlin.de>
	<1k3uh0INN4ej@lily.csv.warwick.ac.uk>
NNTP-Posting-Host: borodin.zib-berlin.de
In-reply-to: maufd@csv.warwick.ac.uk's message of 26 Jan 93 18:05:20 GMT


In article <1k3uh0INN4ej@lily.csv.warwick.ac.uk>
maufd@csv.warwick.ac.uk (Mr J S Graley) writes:

   In article <CANNAM.93Jan26115608@borodin.sc.ZIB-Berlin.de>
   Cannam@sc.ZIB-Berlin.de (Chris Cannam) writes:
   |
   |In article <1k24p6INNoer@clover.csv.warwick.ac.uk>
   |maufd@csv.warwick.ac.uk (Mr J S Graley) writes:
   |
   |   [...] My dad did philosophy as a degree, and
   |   he advised me to take maths.
   |
   |My dad did languages, and _he_ advised me to take maths.  Why?
   |Because I was better at it than at languages.  So fucking what?

   Oh dear. The newbie cuts a paragraph in half, destroying its meaning, then 
   puts 'so what' in the gap. This guy isn't just stupid, he's fucking stupid.
   If you wanna know 'what', read on...

No.  Firstly, the `newbie' crap is pretty good coming from you: I've
been here longer than you have.  Secondly, my point was perfectly
valid: what your dad advised you to has bugger-all to do with your
argument.  You have flamed Katherine for quoting from her course
texts.  Don't quote from your dad.  If you want to say something, say
it yourself, if you can.

   |The connection between a pure maths degree and `the world and life' is
   |also extremely tenuous.

   Your point would be relevent if I had claimed there is a connection between
   doing a maths degree and learning about 'the world and life'. I did not. They
   are independent pursuits. You have made a second irrelevent statement.

Your point would be relevant if Katherine had claimed there is a
connection between doing a philosophy degree and learning about `the
world and life'.  She did not.  She claimed that there was a
connection between doing a philosophy degree and learning about logic.
Your comeback was a non sequitur.

   |                                 I don't think a philosophy degree has that
   |much connection either, but I don't think you're qualified to sound
   |off like this.

   Pardon me? Are you the new moderator of alt.flame? I suggest you fuck off or
   come up with a proper flame. (No doubt he'll try)

I know perfectly well that I'm not a good flamer: that's why I rarely
post to alt.flame.  If you want to bring a serious thread in here,
though, which it seems you do (or did), you can expect serious
replies.

   |You wanna be a mathematician when you grow up?  So few people become
   |successful mathematicians... 

   Incorrect. Mathematics is a degree directly related to a large number of 
   careers. With a maths degree, you can get jobs in computing, business,
   design, and statistical research to name but a few off the top of my head.

Okay.  Later you say you think a successful philosopher is someone
able to make a contribution to the current state of philosophical
thinking.  Why, then, is a successful mathematician not also someone
able to make a contribution to the current state of mathematical
thinking?  Why should you define success in mathematics in career
terms?

   |                                    What do _you_ think a `successful
   |philosopher' is?  A philosopher with a 9-5 job and steady earnings?

   Naah. I mean someone who is able to make a contribution to the current state
   of philospohical thinking, thereby putting their knowledge of philosophy to 
   good use. The only other use is to teach it, which is a bit of a sick joke
   really, if you think about it.

This is probably true.

   |And what has logic got to do with alt.flame?  What has logic got to do
   |with anything?

   What has your posting got to do with anything. Why did you post it?

For amusement?  Because I'm a stupid git who can't resist hitting the
`F' key?  Because I saw you were trying to put together a reasoned
argument, and I thought your point was wrong?

   |   Sorry to shatter your dreams, Kathy.
   |
   |I doubt if you have.

   So do I. Kathy never actually reads any of the flames anyone puts her way
   because it is too painful for her.

...and Andy Hart seems quite willing to take over as macho protector
and read them for her.

   | [...]  The ability to prove something
   |logically is not likely to get you very far anywhere.  Most of the
   |things people hold as fundamental truths are logically wrong.  That
   |doesn't mean they aren't true.

   I could have put it better myself.

Go ahead.

--
           on sighting mathematicians it should unhook the algebra from their
             minds and replace it with poetry;  on sighting poets it should
               unhook poetry from their minds and replace it with algebra

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