HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: hollombe@polymath.tti.com (The Polymath)
Subject: Re: IQ Test Creation Question
Organization: The Cat Factory
Date: Fri, 13 Nov 1992 16:29:09 GMT

In article <Nov.10.20.32.25.1992.2471@utopia.rutgers.edu> clong@utopia.rutgers.edu (Chris Long) writes:
}In article <01GQZPBF0QIQ8Y5V0F@ccfvx3.draper.com>, Kjeld Hvatum writes:
}
}> That was the LAIT (Langdon Adult Intelligence Test), which is still
}> being used for admission to various high-IQ societies (not including
}> Intertel and Mensa).
}
}Why don't they accept either the LAIT or the other similar tests
}(Mega, Titan)?  Is the floor too high, or just snobbery?

Mensa's charter specifies "... generally recognized tests of intelligence
...", which the LAIT, Mega and Titan are not.

I believe Mensa's supervising psychologist, Dr. Abby F. Salny, is
the arbiter of which tests are and aren't acceptable.

The Polymath (aka: Jerry Hollombe, M.A., CDP, aka: hollombe@polymath.tti.com)
Head Robot Wrangler at Citicorp
3100 Ocean Park Blvd.   (310) 450-9111, x2483
Santa Monica, CA  90405
From: mike_steiner@qm.claris.com (Mike Steiner)
Newsgroups: rec.org.mensa
Subject: Re: Mensa Japan
Date: 10 Nov 92 20:53:48 GMT
Article-I.D.: 192.mike_steiner-101192125247
Followup-To: rec.org.mensa

In article <1992Nov9.132312.1@nlzcl.decnet.philips.nl>,
zwanenbu@nlzcl.decnet.philips.nl (Godwin Zwanenburg) wrote:
> 
> In article <mike_steiner-061192111259@192.35.50.131>, mike_steiner@qm.claris.com (Mike Steiner) writes:
> > In article <1992Nov4.231539.23201@murdoch.acc.Virginia.EDU>,
> > jlc5f@poe.acc.Virginia.EDU (Jean L. Cooper) wrote:
> >> 
> >> The article of the Mensa Constitution that was cited in the
> >> derecognizing of Mensa Japan was IX.D.1, which says:
> >> 
> >> "A national Mensa may be derecognized by the Board after
> >> a full and fair investigation, if, in the opinion of the
> >> Board, the national Mensa has engaged in acts inimical to
> >> Mensa, has failed in a major way to perform its duties
> >> under this Constitution, or has tolerated irregularities
> >> in the testing and admission of new members."
> >> 
> >> That's all I know.
> >> 
> >> By the way, the "Board" mentioned here is the International
> >> Board of Directors.
> > 
> > I read that also.  However, I had previously read (and I don't remember
> > where) that Mensa Japan was derecognized because its membership had fallen
> > below the number that is required to be a national Mensa.  That's all that
> > I have seen or heard about the matter.                        
> > 
> > +---------------------------------------------------------------------+
> > |Now that I have a reader that can do .sigs, I can't think of a witty |
> > |one to put here, so I won't.  All normal disclaimers apply.          |
> > +---------------------------------------------------------------------+

Did you want to comment upon that, or did you think that it was so terrific
that it bore repeating?  If you did, you're probably the only one who did.
:)

+---------------------------------------------------------------------+
|Now that I have a reader that can do .sigs, I can't think of a witty |
|one to put here, so I won't.  All normal disclaimers apply.          |
+---------------------------------------------------------------------+
Newsgroups: rec.org.mensa
From: gmark@cbnewse.cb.att.com (gilbert.m.stewart)
Subject: Re: Astrology: Scientific Research
Organization: AT&T
Date: Tue, 10 Nov 1992 16:41:21 GMT

In article <01GQYES6BNF68Y5NJI@ccfvx3.draper.com> skh4161@mvs.draper.com (Kjeld Hvatum) writes:
>
>>From: "Michael J. Eager" <eager@eagercon.com>
>>Message-ID: <1992Nov9.074936.11584@eagercon.com>
>>...
>>When two events are correlated to a high degree, the general assumption
>>is that there is some relationship.  But correlation does not tell you
>>what the relationship is.  One may cause the other, or they may both
>>be caused by come third, independent, event.  Or both may be related
>>through some long sequence of rather independent events.
>
>One more thing...
>when you look at a given set of data, you also have to consider how it
>got your attention.  Was the relationship picked from among 1,000,000
>different data combinations which someone wanted to have show a
>correlation?  All you need are 1,000 things to compare.  From among
>those things the odds are you'll find something with a "very high
>probability" of not being a coincidence (maybe 99.9999 percent sure),
>but it will still be a coincidence.
>
>In my opinion, this sort of misguided hunting for coincidences is what
>astrology is all about.  Kind of like the "astrological" coincidence of
>finding two people with the same birthday in a room of only about 25
>people.  Too much imagination, and too little understanding of
>probability and its application to the real world.

I don't quite agree with the emotionally-charged use of the word
"misguided", but I understand and empathize with your point.
However, I feel compelled to add that much of what we call
science is the hunting for coincidences.  There is very little
in the real world that can be proven beyond a shadow of a doubt.
My biggest gripe with astrology is with the practitioners that
"prove" it with blinders on to any contrary evidence.  I'm 
reminded of those joke horoscopes with trains like, "You are
fastidious, charming, seductive and twisted.  You should beware
of large groups of people.  You should take advantage of financial
opportunity, or you will take a life in the near future."

GMS
From: quest@iowegia.uucp (Steve J. Quest)
Newsgroups: rec.org.mensa
Subject: Marylin Vos Savant.  Personal info request <=****
Date: Sat, 07 Nov 92 11:20:26 CST
Distribution: world
Organization: Iowegia Public Access Usenet/UUCP, Clive IA USA.

stein@bcstec.ca.boeing.com (Halden Stein) writes:

> I understand how someone with an IQ greater than mine can develop
> test items to judge my abilities. Who creates the test for someone
> such as Marylin Vos Savant (highest IQ at the moment)? It seems that
> the test creators would need to have higher IQs than the test takers.


        I have a question about Marylin Vos Savant.  I have heard 
about this person, but have not heard details ABOUT this person.  
My first reaction to the name is "what a lucky person to have a 
last name of Savant".  The definition of this word is "man of 
learning", quite fitting for said personna.

        If anyone can detail more information, or give me an 
internet address whereby I can contact this person direct, I would 
be most appreciative.  I can not imagine an illuminated mind that 
is not available on some form of telecommunications network- CIS 
or GEnie accounts are also accessable by me for mail transfer.

        I have a theory on names, I call it the "Duberstein 
effect".  There was an employer I once worked for who asked me to 
help evaluate a large stack of resumes'.  The job applicant needed 
to have a minimum of a Bachelors degree- and all of these 
applicants were presorted and were academically equal.  My 
supervisor took initial evaluation of the resumes and handed the 
"interesting candidates" to me for evaluation.  Early in this 
process he hit a name that caused him to laugh.  He was laughing
at the name Duberstein (or was it Dubberstein).  After showing me 
the name on the resume, for my "amusement", he promptly dropped it 
into the trash.  No evaluation of this candidate was made BEYOND 
his name.  He very well may have been the best man for the job- 
but his _name_ prevented him from even getting a chance.

        Name (as all labels, "retard", "ugly", "stupid", or the 
one I often received as a kid, "Einstein") define us internally as 
to who and what we are.  These labels are often given to us by 
external interpretation of our personality.  I myself suffered 
from the "Dubberstein Effect" as a kid.  By changing the label, I 
changed my whole life.  I finally had a future.

        There once was a television program called Remington 
Steel- the concept there being similar to the one I described.  
Tough TV characters are given names synonymous with weaponry.  
This "programming of our psyche" has given need for altering ones 
moniker to suit his lifes pursuits, lest s/he be doomed.

        Entering into this message I didn't realize that I would 
be uncorking something THIS VERBOSE.  I will step down from my 
soapbox now and await feedback on this hopefully passionate issue.

sq


quest@iowegia.uucp
From: jimt@carson.u.washington.edu (James Thompson)
Newsgroups: rec.org.mensa
Subject: Re: Clinton/Gore newsgroup and Voter Tests
Date: 9 Nov 92 04:03:49 GMT
Article-I.D.: u.1992Nov9.040349.9808
Distribution: usa
Organization: University of Washington, Seattle

In article <1992Nov6.155655.17458@cbnewse.cb.att.com> gmark@cbnewse.cb.att.com (gilbert.m.stewart) writes:
>In article <1992Nov5.214115.7361@u.washington.edu> jimt@carson.u.washington.edu (James Thompson) writes:
>>
>>I disagree.  Some of the candidates I rejected, I did so without knowing their
>>views on a great many subjects.  Any single view that I strongly disagree with
>>is sufficient grounds for rejection.  I don't need to know anything more about
>>a candidate, for example, after he says something like "In the wise words of
>>Lyndon LaRouche..."
>
>So you're saying that if someone agrees with one statement a person has
>said, then they are buying into that person's entire philosophy?  
>"Mussolini said the trains should run on time, but Mussolini was a
>Fascist, so..."
>
>I see many people (okay, most people) thinking like this.
>
>"I'm pro-life.  X is pro-life.  I'm for X."
>
>"But X has no economic plan.  What if many children die because of
>X wasting funds to the point of siphoning them off from medical care?"
>
>"I don't care about economics.  I care about life.  Besides, that won't
>happen.  And X can't screw up economics that badly."
>
>"What if X can't affect the government's actions with regard to
>abortion?"
>
>"Oh, but X is pro-life!  And I'm pro-life.  So I'm for X."
>
>And so it goes.
>
>GM("Oh, But That's Different")S

No, that's not different; your point IS valid.  However, my personal
brainwidth (tm) is limited, and one of the things I do to conserve it is to
reject large amounts of data based on small bits that identify them, in my
world-model, as *trash*.

I realize that this may cause me to miss an occasional jewel, but on the
whole, I like having an 'n' key.

Jim (Gee, I wish I thought of doing this with my name first) Thompson
Newsgroups: rec.org.mensa
From: gg@iok.unit.no (Gus Gassmann)
Subject: Re: IQ Test Creation Question
Organization: University of Trondheim
Date: Mon, 9 Nov 92 19:32:04 GMT

In article <597@nate.UUCP>, ken@nate.UUCP (Ken Gacioch) writes:
|> In article <4125@bcstec.ca.boeing.com> stein@bcstec.ca.boeing.com (Halden Stein) writes:
|> >I understand how someone with an IQ greater than mine can develop
|> >test items to judge my abilities. Who creates the test for someone
|> >such as Marylin Vos Savant (highest IQ at the moment)? It seems that
|> >the test creators would need to have higher IQs than the test takers.
|> 
|> Not at all. All it involves is thinking up some really hard questions, hard
|> enough so that nobody could ever answer all of them, and then
|> having enough people try to answer them to generate a fairly smooth curve.
|> Anyone's score can then be expressed as as %ile, number of standard
|> deviations from the mean, or a position on any scale you want to place on
|> the X axis.
|> 
|>    Scores in standardized tests aren't by any means supposed to represent
|> absolute measures of anything, but only indicate ones success in correctly 
|> answering the questions on that one test, compared to everyone who took it
|> while it was being normed.

Yes, but that only begs a larger question: How the hell do you calibrate
such a test? If you administer this test to "the most intelligent person"
presumably this person will score higher on this test than anyone else did.
(At least that's what you want---Scott Tai has been conspicuously absent
from this discussion!) The question is: How much higher does this person 
score? And what does that tell you about this person's "IQ"?

|> 
|>    Thinking up really hard questions isn't that difficult. For example, 
|> "complete the series" kinds of qustions can be damned near impossible to
|> figure out, if a sufficiently devilishly convoluted formula is applied.

Right, but these devilishly convoluted formulas make the result more and
more arbitrary. We had this discussion a few weeks ago. 

Does anyone out there remember the Mensa/Omni "Genius Test" of 1978/79? 
There was no time limit on it (I think they said to try to limit yourself
to a month). They even told you beforehand the scale of evaluation.
I took that test, shooting for, can't remember exactly, 27 correct
answers, which would have translated into an "IQ" of 163. Somehow that 
seemed to be an important goal at the time. They disallowed
three of my answers (didn't tell me which ones or what they considered to 
be the correct answer), so I ended up with an "IQ" of 154. I have no idea
what the hell that means...

|> 
|> KG
Newsgroups: rec.org.mensa
From: rhs@world.std.com (Richard H Schwartz)
Subject: Re: Voting Analysis
Organization: The World Public Access UNIX, Brookline, MA
Date: Sat, 14 Nov 1992 02:02:25 GMT

eager@eagercon.com (Michael J. Eager) writes:

>Well, more recent revelations have sort of put this story to rest.  There was
>a significant amount of correspondence between K & K.  The deal that was cut
>was that Khruschev would remove the missles from Cuba and that Kennedy would
>remove the Jupiter (nuclear warhead) missles from Turkey the following year.

>All of the "hang tough" retoric was only noise.  Kennedy got to look like 
>he stood up to Khruschev's threat, Khruschev got a major concession.

>I haven't heard whether there really were two discordant messages.  But 
>recent documents reveal that no body thought that missles in Cuba were a 
>real threat to the US.

Well, as to the perception of threat... I guess you didn't see the 
interviews I saw recently.  I'm drawing a blank on who it was (maybe 
McNamara) but an interview I saw within the last few weeks starkly
contradicted the reports that claimed the threat was overblown.  At
least for the interviewee (barring outright lying, anyhow), the 
threat was very real.  There was a very strong contingent that believed 
the threat was very real... if not from these missles, from what would 
surely follow.  There were also many who disagreed.

Most of the "new" information I've seen in the last few months is not
new at all.  Allison's "Essence of Decision" covered the angles on this
years ago.  I've also heard nothing that contradicts the two messages
story.

As to the concession on the missles in Turkey, there were a lot of 
questions about those missle's effectiveness there.  Some believe
that Kennedy would have been glad to remove them even without the crisis,
because he feared having nuclear armaments in a place he considered to
be somewhat unstable.

Anyhow, the story of the Cuban Missle Crisis was illustrative of the
point, even if the story really is fiction.  Non-action when action is 
expected or just believed possible *can* convey a message if there is
sufficient history for the parties to draw upon.  This fact is often
used by experienced negotiators in delicate situations.  It is probably
used most frequently by children who defy authority by ignoring it
completely.

-rich
-- 
             Richard H. Schwartz, Scheduling Systems Inc.,
            1000 Massachusetts Avenue, Cambridge, MA  02138
                  (617) 864 8330; FAX (617) 864 8377
                          rhs@world.std.com
Newsgroups: rec.org.mensa
From: gmark@cbnewse.cb.att.com (gilbert.m.stewart)
Subject: Re: Marylin Vos Savant.  Personal info request <=****
Organization: AT&T
Date: Tue, 10 Nov 1992 16:54:52 GMT

In article <09Nov92200433@miracle.com> jcooley@miracle.com (John Cooley) writes:
>edp@math.zk3.dec.com (Eric Postpischil) writes:
>>In article <R1PVTB4w165w@iowegia.uucp>, quest@iowegia.uucp (Steve J.
>>Quest) writes:
>>
>>>My first reaction to the name is "what a lucky person to have a 
>>>last name of Savant".
>>
>>It might not be luck; a family might have been named for their
>>characteristics.  I've been told "Postpischil" is Czechoslovakian for
>>"quick witted".
>>
>>
>>                                -- edp (Eric Postpischil)
>>                                "Always mount a scratch monkey."
>>                                edp@rusure.enet.dec.com
>
>
>Eric, isn't Postpischil a German name though?
>
>                                   -- John who name has many meanings

I think it's Austrian for "One who has made yellow snow."

GMS
From: skh4161@mvs.draper.com (Kjeld Hvatum)
Newsgroups: rec.org.mensa
Subject: computerized GRE
Date: 5 Nov 92 17:59:00 GMT
Organization: Draper Laboratory


Has anyone taken the computerized version of the GRE?  It costs $90 and
you can take it any Monday, Wednesday or Friday at one of 130 Sylvan
Learning Centers that the ETS has contracted to offer the computerized
version of the GRE.  Your scores are computed in seconds after you've
complete the exam, and you can go home with a score report.  That's an
advantage for anyone who has missed one of the regular GRE
administrations (only 5 per year) and has an application deadline.  More
than 700 have signed up to take the computerized GRE so far.

From the Wall Street Journal, Nov 4, 1992, p. B1:

"ETS officials aim by next fall to have the computer GRE adapt the
difficulty of the questions to the test taker's ability.  That means the
questions will get progressively more difficult until the test taker
answers one wrong.  Then, the computer will drop the next question back
to a lower level of difficulty.  If the student answers that one right,
the computer will boost the next question to a higher level of
difficulty.  The seesaw continues, and by the end of the test a level of
aptitude is attained, between 200 and 800 point on the scoring scale."

  (I wonder if it tries to break anybody trying for a perfect
   score by giving additional hard questions.)

"Supporters of adaptive testing believe the method is a better
way to ascertain a student's abilities.  But the idea makes
some people shiver."

"'I think we're doing something that's very dangerous.  We shouldn't
let the technology intoxicate us.' says Howard Gardner, and education
professor at Harvard University.  The adaptive testing, he says,
'presupposes that essential knowledge can be linearized or
hierarchically organized, that one can say this question is harder than
this and infer that if you miss questions two or three you can't
possibly get five or six right.  Notice how insidious that is.'"

The article doesn't mention that adaptive testing also makes it
possible to perform the test in a much shorter time, since the
adaptive hunt quickly eliminates questions which are too hard
or too easy.  Yes folks, soon you can have your basic scholastic
aptitudes measured in mere minutes by a computer.

skh@draper.com
From: jcooley@miracle.com (John Cooley)
Newsgroups: rec.org.mensa
Subject: Re: Prometheus Society
Date: Mon, 09 Nov 92 18:42:04 EDT
Organization: Miracle Computer Consultants

clong@remus.rutgers.edu (Chris Long) writes:
>
>Does this still exist?  My letter to them was ignored.
>-- 
>Chris Long, 265 Old York Rd., Bridgewater, NJ  08807-2618

That's funny; I sent them a letter, too, about a year ago
and never got any reply either...

(They did exist at the time, though, because I know a Boston
Mensan who was quite an active member with them until her school
work took over her life.)

                                            -John Cooley
                                             LocSec, Boston Mensa


 ==========================================================================
       John Cooley              Zappa as a waste management engineer: 
                                  "Hey, there, Brother!  Whatcha
    jcooley@miracle.com            doing with that Cosmic Debris?"
From: eager@eagercon.com (Michael J. Eager)
Newsgroups: rec.org.mensa
Subject: Re: t: Post for Week of Nov  9
Date: 10 Nov 92 23:03:51 GMT
Reply-To: eager@eagercon.com
Organization: Eager Consulting

In article 22825@ncsu.edu, scott@bogus.network.address (Scott Tai) writes:

I love the address.  No more deception, just be blunt.  

And I really love the routing:
>  Path: 
> eagercon!ditka!daver!UB.com!pacbell.com!decwrl!concert!rock!taco!burrito!nacho!
> tostada!crispa!fajita!bogus.network.address!scott

Make a run for the border!!!

But there are still hint, Scott:
> Message-ID: <1992Nov9.173959.22825@ncsu.edu>
> Sender: news@ncsu.edu (USENET News System)


---
Michael J. Eager		Michael.Eager@eagercon.com
Eager Consulting		(415) 325-8077 
1960 Park Boulevard, Palo Alto, CA 94306-1141
Newsgroups: rec.org.mensa
From: sonic@bearpit.cray.com (Curtis Swanson)
Subject: Re: Clinton/Gore newsgroup and Voter Tests
Reply-To: sonic@bearpit.cray.com (Curtis Swanson)
Organization: Cray Research, Inc.
Distribution: usa
Date: 9 Nov 92 09:34:24 CST

In <1992Nov5.214115.7361@u.washington.edu> jimt@carson.u.washington.edu 
(James Thompson) writes:
>In article <1992Nov4.172350.29118@walter.cray.com> sonic@bearpit.cray.com 
>(Curtis Swanson) writes:
>>I don't think that you can solve any problem without affecting many other 
>>issues/programs.  I think that you have to look at the entire range to make
>>sure that the overall effect is good.
>
>I disagree.  Some of the candidates I rejected, I did so without knowing their
>views on a great many subjects.  Any single view that I strongly disagree with
>is sufficient grounds for rejection.  I don't need to know anything more about
>a candidate, for example, after he says something like "In the wise words of
>Lyndon LaRouche..."
>
>Jim

As GMS mentioned, agreeing with an idea held by a candidate by no means 
implies that you agree with that candidate's entire philosophy.  Lyndon
LaRouche has a couple of decent ideas but overall I would not vote for him.
I have yet to see a candidate with absolutely nothing to recommend them.
I've seen plenty with very little to recommend but none that were totally
worthless.

Also, is an idea automatically bad if LaRouche espouses it?  Yes, this is 
the messenger/message distinction bit........

***  Curt Swanson  ***  sonic@romulus.cray.com  ***  IOTTMCO  *********
Bad opening line #106:
     "Say, you own the 'Buns of steel' video, don't you?"
***  Warning: This signature expires on 30-NOV-92!  *******************
Newsgroups: rec.org.mensa
From: ron@syacus.acus.oz.au (Ron Williams)
Subject: Re: Help....college is killing me!!!!
Organization: ACUS Australian Centre for Unisys Software, Sydney
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1 PL6]
Date: Thu, 12 Nov 1992 22:29:53 GMT

Matthew Ivaliotes (ivaliote@ux1.cso.uiuc.edu) wrote:
: but no money and little confidence to execute them.  I feel stuck, unintelligent
: , and dissappointing to thise around me.  I am only taking two classes for  
: credit this semester, and still I am doing horribly.  I am a political science 
: major (focusing on theory and international relations), and a former engineer
: who got REALLY bored.  
: Matt

You have mid-life crisis. Given that you are probably ~20, don't make any long
term plans, epecially for the post 40 years. 

Seriously, though, it look as though you get the buzzer again for choice of
course. You obviously hate what you are doing, since even with heavy going, or
parts of the courses thought to be necessary but boring, you should have enough
enthusiasm for your subject to sustain you. 

There are those who just know, from an early age, what they will do for the
rest of their life. I envy them. My guess is that you will come to do so too.

ron.

--
Ron Williams                  ACSnet : ron@syacus.acus.oz
Ph : +61 2 390-1366         Internet : ron@syacus.acus.OZ.AU
Fax: +61 2 390-1391             UUCP : uunet!munnari!syacus.acus.oz.au!ron
Standard Disclaimers Apply