From: mikeh@starnine.com (Mike Haas)
Subject: Re: The piracy argument to end all arguments....
Date: Tue, 17 Nov 1992 02:45:34 GMT
Organization: StarNine Technologies, Inc.

In article <1992Nov5.173908.12482@ugle.unit.no> eyvind@Lise.Unit.NO (Eyvind Bernhardsen) writes:
>In article <Bx8AC6.FAC@starnine.com>, mikeh@starnine.com (Mike Haas) writes:
> > In article <OA92-901-306p1_DC448B13@piraya.bad.se> Hans_Bergengren@p1.thulos.bbs.bad.se (Hans Bergengren) writes:
>
> > >Yup, that's the best way, really. Better
> > >than reading every Amiga rag there is, since magazines always lag behind, and
> > >a written review is not as good as actually trying out the software for
> > >yourself.
> > 
> > So let's not only steal from the manufacturer of the software, but
> > let's cheat the magazine publisher of an honest sale?
>
>What?  You're seriously saying that finding out about a game before it comes in
>the magazines is a crime?

No, I'm saying that copying commercial software is a crime.  YOU'RE the one
who said that stealing software was a good way to find out about 
software without waiting for magazine lag time.

>Forget the piracy, what about News?  Should I avert my
>eyes from an article about the A1200, or a new game, or whatever, just because I 
>might see something that would make me think twice about buying a magazine? 

That wasn't the issue at all.  But since you brought it up, if
someone were to post the passwheel information for a game here, you
would be committing a crime by using that information.

>You're just reaching for a reason to flame here...

I had a feeling you might see it that way.  But I'm addressing
piracy.  period.

>
> > > WS> And no intelligent pirate (I see the contradiction there) is going to
> > > WS> start arguing for piracy here as giving away his email address 
> > >effectively WS> gives away his identity to the world.
> > >
> > >Why shouldn't you be able to argue for piracy?
> > 
> > This is a real moron!  Ahhh!  SORRY!!!!  I didn't mean to slander
> > the honest, hardworking morons in the world.
>
>Did you ever hear of the concept of 'free speech'?  I guess not.

Not when it comes to supporting crime.  You can't post phone
numbers on BBS's, you can't upload commercial games... trying to
convince people that it's OK to do these things is immoral.

There ARE limits to free speech.  Freedom never means "do what you
want".  It means "make your own decisions within these moral
guidelines".

>
> > Thief.  That's the word.  Common thief, except that every product
> > he swipes in the Amiga industry probably has more negative impact
> > that the average equivalent $$ common theft... Don't you wonder
> > how many "friends" he "shares" his "better than a written review"
> > illegal copy with?  How many BBS's?  How many FTP sites?
>
>Can you back this up?  Are you saying that this person is a pirate and actively
>spreads software illegaly?  Maybe you don't understand the meaning of the word
>'libel' either?

I have not spoken past a hypothetical "he" "him" etc.  Please do not
take these statements personally unless you steal software.  Then, please
take them VERY personally (as I do when someone steals MY software).
>
> > >In one Swedish FidoNET echo, we have had a piracy debate
> > >since about a month, and both sides can share opinions and views. I think that
> > >is a good thing.
> > 
> > Yes, In marketing Amiga software, one becomes quickly aware of the
> > terrible piracy problem that exists overseas (term intentionally broad).
> > I know of companies that have refused to work with foriegn distributers
> > because the controls are so loose.
> > 
> > And you countries which socially allow this atrocity do it to yourselves.
> > Really.  A debate over the ethics of thievery?  How low
> > can you go?
>
>Ah.  I see. you really DON'T know the meaning of free speech.

Methinks it is YOU that have a twisted idea of freedom.

>Did you actually READ the article?  This person was, in fact, arguing against
>piracy, yet you contrive to claim that he's a pirate.  Libel's illegal too,
>whether it's on an electronic network or not.

No libel intended.  Just statements about pirates.  Actually, that's
MUCH too glamorous a word for thieves.

My intent is to show the speciousness of discussions about "Why Thieves
Steal" which ultimately want to cast blame on the manufacturers of
the products.  I desire to expose the lack of integrity of those who
do not vigorously denounce software theft, but instead choose
to defend the practice with rationalizations and lies which
seriously hurt all of us.