HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: ina_pearce@actew.oz.au
Newsgroups: aus.general
Subject: keating - our hero!
Date: 8 Oct 92 15:30:44 GMT
Followup-To: aus.followup
Distribution: aus
Organization: ACT Electricity & Water

Keating announced yesterday in parliament that the recession finished months ago
and his labour party saved Australia.

I'd love to see him say that face to face to the millions of people who had jobs
back in 1981 and now have no job and no prospect of ever getting a job.

To the millions of families who back in 1981 owned two cars and their home who 
now have to go to the Salvos to get food for their kids.

To the millions of kids who back in 1981 had hopes and dreams of what they
wanted to do when they grew up. Who now are either wasting their time studying
at university because there's no prospect of getting a job when they finish; or
who decided to settle down and got married and either bought their own home only
to have the skyrocketing interest rates send them broke; or who were not even 
able to aford their own home and still could not afford to pay the rent, food,
bills, etc and still ended up broke. Either way not being able to afford to
start a family and most ending up in divorce because of the hardships.

And while destroying all these millions of peoples lives he still managed to 
explode the countries deficit by billions of dollars. It seems the only people
not affected by the labour rule are the super rich who still managed to keep
their pockets filled. I notice Keating himself can still afford his luxury cars
and italian made suits...

what a hero! 
Newsgroups: aus.general
From: dht@cs.mu.OZ.AU (Joyous Dave baby)
Subject: A lift from Melbourne to Sydney
Organization: Computer Science, University of Melbourne, Australia
Date: Wed, 14 Oct 1992 15:22:06 GMT

If you're interested in driving up to Sydney from Melbourne,
please read my article on aus.wanted.

And mail me if you're interested.

dave

-- 
1)-----------------------Rev 6:8 "... They were given authority over a quarter
of the Earth, to kill by the sword, by famine, by plague, and wild beasts."
Newsgroups: aus.general,aus.politics
From: gnb@duke.bby.com.au (Gregory N. Bond)
Subject: Re: implication of GST
Organization: Burdett, Buckeridge & Young, Melbourne, Australia
	<9228218.6616@mulga.cs.mu.OZ.AU> <1992Oct9.004604.25039@trl.oz.au>
	<1992Oct9.212032.1@cc.curtin.edu.au> <miw.718854712@cc.uq.oz.au>
	<1992Oct12.071204.16130@bby.com.au> <miw.718893917@cc.uq.oz.au>
Date: Tue, 13 Oct 1992 00:28:04 GMT

Grrr.  I think I've been fooled by the various uses of the work
"margin".

Gross margin is the markup from wholesale price to retail price, and
10-20% for the low end, up to almost infinity for boutique, is typical.

Nett margin is more interesting from the financial point of view, and
that is the margin after direct costs (rent, wages, phone bills etc)
are deleted; 1-5% is typical, although it can go to 0 or even
negative.

Financing costs, tax and profit come out of the nett margin, so it is
sometimes called the EBIT margin (EBIT = Earnings Before Interest and
Tax). 

Profit margin is the ratio of profit to turnover. This can be
negative; just ask Adsteam.

Greg, slightly red-faced.
--
Gregory Bond <gnb@bby.com.au> Burdett Buckeridge & Young Ltd Melbourne Australia
``USL has never sold long distance.  You're going after the wrong men in black 
  hats.  (Or, in the case of Plan 9, black space suits)'' - Tom Limoncelli

Newsgroups: aus.general
From: stuarta@syd.dms.CSIRO.AU (Stuart Andrews)
Subject: New Newsgroups. How?
Organization: CSIRO Division of Mathematics and Statistics, Australia
Distribution: aus
Date: Mon, 12 Oct 1992 03:11:12 GMT

Can I have some tips on creation of new newsgroups please (at an aus. level)
Stuff like how/who to actually do it, moderation etc...
Thanx in adv
G
.

-- 
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Geoffrey Breach                                   || "Imagination is more
(masquerading as stuarta)                         ||  important than knowledge"
AWA Communications                                ||
Lane Cove, Sydney, Australia. Voice 61,2 413 6333 ||            Albert Einstein
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
AWA Communications don't know I'm doing this and CSIRO think I'm somebody else
so I'm afraid that the only person responsible for this posting can be me!
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: brendan@otc.otca.oz (Brendan Jones)
Newsgroups: aus.general
Subject: Re: Sydney Harbour Tunnel Update #19
Date: 13 Oct 92 23:05:23 GMT

in article <1992Oct12.084209.7920@pta.pyramid.com.au>, bob@pta.pyramid.com.au (Robert Vernon) says:
> So I'd like to thank Brendan for all his postings over the last few months
> (years?).

Thanks!  Yes, it has been years.  I'm glad it's all over (it was a lot of
work every three months getting those things out).
 
> [re speed limit message broadcast over car radios inside tunnel]
> Why didn't the Tunnel Authority hire a nice, well spoken ABC newsreader to
> record their broadcast messages.  Why oh why did they have to use that
> synthesised, american accented, robotic sounding horrible noise.

Good question.  As an infrequent tunnel user, I've not heard that message,
although I suspected that they might do something like that to remind
motorists of the speed limit.  I find it very easy to sneak up to 90 km/h in
the tunnel, especially going down the quite steep incline at the tunnel
entrance on the south side.

I'd agree that a nice 'golden tonsil' recording would be much more pleasant
(and probably more effective).

Cheers!
-- 
Brendan Jones  | ACSnet:  brendan@otc.otca.oz.au               | This space
R&D Contractor |   UUCP:  {uunet,mcvax}!otc.otca.oz.au!brendan | for lease
Network Access |  Phone:  (02)287-3128    Fax:  (02)287-3299   | pending new
|||| OTC ||    |  Snail:  GPO Box 7000 Sydney 2001, AUSTRALIA  | .sig
Newsgroups: aus.general
From: eln235s@lindblat.cc.monash.edu.au (Mr H Hui)
Subject: Thanks(Re: Queries on Vic State Election)
Organization: Monash University, Melb., Australia.
Distribution: aus
Date: Sat, 10 Oct 1992 12:04:49 GMT

Thanks for those who replied my questions.

-- 
------------------------------------------------------------------
Humphrey Hui                      :  Have you taken a risk lately?
HHUI@basil.eng.monash.edu.au      :  Life is boring without risk!
From: beam@peg.pegasus.oz.au
Newsgroups: aus.general
Date: 16 Oct 92 13:35 EST
Subject: Re: Mobile Phones was Re: EFTPOS
Nf-ID: #R:1bdm7hINNegu@uniwa.uwa.edu.au:-1308682873:peg:993300073:000:1160
Nf-From: peg.pegasus.oz.au!beam    Oct 16 13:35:00 1992


>/* Written 10:09 pm  Oct 14, 1992 by cam@syzygy.DIALix.oz.au in peg:aus.general */
>/* ---------- "Mobile Phones was Re: EFTPOS" ---------- */
>
>In article <1bdm7hINNegu@uniwa.uwa.edu.au> scott@psy.uwa.oz.au writes:
> > While everyone is worrying about EFTPOS security what do you all think
> > about the telephone company knowing your location every time you use
> > a mobile phone (well to the resolution of the cell size at least).  
>so what.

there have been cases in america where companies have had access to this
telephone company information for advertising.

picture this:
    your driving down the highway and unwittingly enter a new cell. suddenly
    your mobile phone rings. you pick it up...

    "...welcome to the sunny harris valley. we hope you will enjoy your visit
     here. if your hungry there is a macdonalds on the right over the next
     hill..."

i made that one up, but similar things have happened already. invasion of
privacy by communications companies (or network site administrators) is a
very serious matter.  it may not matter to you now, but your children will
have to live with the precidents you set.

cheers, tim :-)

Newsgroups: aus.general
From: lee@munta.cs.mu.OZ.AU (Lee Naish)
Subject: Re: Queries on Vic State Election
Organization: Department of Computer Sci, University of Melbourne
Distribution: aus
Date: Wed, 7 Oct 1992 02:47:20 GMT

In article <eln235s.718288146@lindblat.cc.monash.edu.au> eln235s@lindblat.cc.monash.edu.au (Mr H Hui) writes:
>On the election day, the ALP admitted losing the election by 2100.
>However, by that time not all the votes were counted.

Yes, but it was clear that they were going to lose.

>Today, I read the
>paper, it appeared to me that not all votes are counted. Thus, can
>anyone on the net tell me :
>
>1. Is it the normal practice here to stop counting the votes once a
>definite winner is identified?

For the legislative assembly (and maybe the council, I'm not sure), all
first preferences of the "normal" votes are counted on election night.
Postal and absentee votes are counted later and preferences are
distributed if necessary.  The official declaration of the poll is
normally weeks after the election.


>2. Some people said that they need to put perferences on the ballot
>paper. Under what circumstance(s) will the 2nd, or 3rd preferences be
>counted? And how does it work, then?

If no-one gets more than half ofthe first preferences, the person with
the least number of first preferences is eliminated and their votes are
redistributed according to the second preference.  If there is still
no-one with > 50% another person is eliminated, etc.

>3. Is the same vote counting method empolyed for all state and the
>federal elections?

No, there are several different systems.  The best & fairest is the
Tasmanian Hare Clark system.

	lee
Xref: sparky aus.general:1872 aus.aarnet:998
From: s924683@yallara.cs.rmit.OZ.AU (CHANDANA PERERA)
Newsgroups: aus.general,aus.aarnet
Subject: Re: EFTPOS
Date: 12 Oct 92 09:45:20 GMT
Followup-To: aus.general
Distribution: aus


  Well I have been told by the engineers who design the ATM mechines and the
  PIN generation mechines that if you guess or generate the PIN using 
  known data (ie Account Num, Name), U will have a proberbility of
  around 1/2^256 (ie one in 2 to the power of 256) of getting it right.

  Also these famed algorithems people are on about which generates the PINS
  and decodes the pins are Only written by ONE engineer.  More people might
  get involved in the process of putting them on the mechines, but at max
  only two people actually see the source code for this.

  The place where the Mechine's are made, There is very high security.  Nothing
  can be brought outside with out security looking at it from what I hear.
  Once the guy who writes these programs, or brought out a box( the type
  photo copy paper come in), by the time he was out the building, and 
  going towerds the gate, The gate security was tiped off, which started a major
  securty search of this box..... which turned out to be a phocopied manuel
  of some type.....
  So these stuff are dome pretty secretly....  I will be more worried that
  some one might watch me typing in my pin, or getting mugged at the ATM
  than about someone making up a card like mine to rip off the bank or My self

-chandi


  
Newsgroups: aus.general
From: bob@pta.pyramid.com.au (Robert Vernon)
Subject: Re: Sydney Harbour Tunnel Update #19 (Q3 92) (FINAL)
Summary: This is a Sydney Harbour Tunnel Authority announcement
Organization: Pyramid Technology Corporation, Sydney
Date: Mon, 12 Oct 1992 08:42:09 GMT

In article <6543@otc.otca.oz> brendan@otc.otca.oz (Brendan Jones) writes:
>SYDNEY HARBOUR TUNNEL UPDATE #19
>
>3rd Quarter 1992
>
>I'm sure all of you will breathe a huge sigh of relief that this is the last
>tunnel update, covering final construction work and the opening.

I've always found the tunnel updates interesting reading, besides
being actually useful to me as a twice a day harbour crosser.  So I'd
like to thank Brendan for all his postings over the last few months
(years?).

Now for the ObQuestion that Brendan or someone might know the answer
to.

    "This is a Sydney Harbour Tunnel Authority announcement.  Motorists
    are reminded that the speed limit is 70 kilometres per hour".

After listening to the above quote repeated over and over on my car
radio one evening, I just had to wonder.  Why didn't the Tunnel
Authority hire a nice, well spoken ABC newsreader to record their
broadcast messages.  Why oh why did they have to use that synthesised,
american accented, robotic sounding horrible noise.


Bob V!

Newsgroups: aus.general,aus.politics
From: miw@cc.uq.oz.au (Mark I. Williams)
Subject: Re: implication of GST
Organization: Prentice Centre, University of Queensland
Date: Mon, 12 Oct 1992 03:14:10 GMT

zrepachol@cc.curtin.edu.au (Paul Repacholi) writes:

>In article <9228418.26288@mulga.cs.mu.OZ.AU>, fgh@hannibal.ee.mu.OZ.AU (Frank Hayward) writes:
>> In article <1992Oct9.212032.1@cc.curtin.edu.au> zrepachol@cc.curtin.edu.au (Paul Repacholi) writes:
>...
>>>A resonable markup is ~100%, so we have at wholesale, $35 plus $11 plus $4 ST.
>>                         ^^^ more like 30-50%
>For a large chain store yes, but I was thinking more 'general retail'.

General retail markups are usually of the order of 35-40%, unless you
are looking at some special items like fashion clothes. 100% markups are
very rare outside of the classiest boutiques.

Anyway, if you buy your groceries anywhare but at a large chain store,
you obviously aren't concerned about the price you pay anyway.

cheers,


--
Mark Williams         The University of Queensland       miw@cc.uq.edu.au
+61 7 36 54012   (w)  Prentice Centre
+61 7 36 54477  (fax) Qld 4072  Australia
Nullum magnum ingenium sine mixtura dementiae fuit.  -- Seneca
Newsgroups: aus.general,aus.aarnet
From: Quinn <quinn@cs.uwa.edu.au>
Subject: Re: EFTPOS
X-Xxdate: Fri, 9 Oct 92 01: 29:58 GMT
Organization: The University of Western Australia
X-Useragent: Nuntius v1.1.1d11
Date: Fri, 9 Oct 1992 01:34:19 GMT

In article <9228217.6147@mulga.cs.mu.OZ.AU> Greg Rose,
ggr@koonda.acci.com.au writes:
>The PIN is not stored directly on the card. Instead it is generated
>from other information on the card (like your account number and name)
>using a keyed hashing technique, and the key for this is kept VERY
>secret (although it is inside all those little boxes...).
         ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Yeah but getting it out of the little boxes without having them
explode in your face is non-trivial in the extreme.  I used to
work (as a grunt) as a company that made EFTPOS stuff and they go
to *great* lengths to ensure that:

  a) no one can snoop the keys as they're loaded
  b) the machine self destructs if it's tampered with

Gee I hope this doesn't break the non-disclosure agreement that I
never got around to signing (-;

Quinn "The Eskimo!"      <quinn@cs.uwa.edu.au>     "Support HAVOC!"
Department of Computer Science, The University of Western Australia
  --  But what does it have to do with aarnet?
Xref: sparky aus.general:1810 aus.aarnet:957
From: stuarta@syd.dms.CSIRO.AU (Stuart Andrews)
Newsgroups: aus.general,aus.aarnet
Subject: Re: EFTPOS
Date: 8 Oct 92 05:53:06 GMT
Distribution: aus
Organization: CSIRO Division of Mathematics and Statistics, Australia

> I'll bet the PIN security is hardwired into the card reader...

No, I don't really know either, but I reckon that if the PIN was hardwired in the reader - ie: no PIN info is transmitted over the lines, then the PIN must be on that little
magnetic stripe on the card. Methinks there are a whole new ballpark of security hassles with PIN on the card if the card is stolen, scrambling aside.

My guess is that the PIN mus be compared with one on the host computer therefore must
be transmitted...

Hey, does anybody work in this game and so know what really goes on???

Geoffrey
.
Newsgroups: aus.general,aus.aarnet
From: summer@mullian.ee.mu.OZ.AU (Mark Summerfield)
Subject: Re: EFTPOS
Organization: Computer Science, University of Melbourne, Australia
Distribution: aus
Date: Sun, 11 Oct 1992 02:38:50 GMT

stuarta@syd.dms.CSIRO.AU (Stuart Andrews) writes:

>work as per a credit card. They wouldn't give me any cash. Interesting thing
>was, they didn't use my PIN, they just took my .signature - no id, no nuthing
>Funnier: My credit union does have a record of my .sig, but others (eg: St
>George Freedom) don't record .sigs for plastic card. therefoe: no security.

There's a signature *on* your card, surely? And the requirements for that
signature are identical to those for a credit card -- that you sign it
as *soon* as you receive it, possibly under supervision from your bank/
building society. The paper EFT transaction is identical in form to
a paper credit transaction, is subject to exactly the same security
check (i.e. the store is supposed to compare your signature to the one
on the card), and your liability (and the bank's) in case of the theft
and subsequent misuse of your card is also identical.

Of course, actual credit cards are often a little harder to forge than
ordinary ATM cards (they have little holograms on them), so the security
is not quite as good -- which is why the idea is that EFT transactions
be purely electronic, and PIN based, and that paper transactions are the
exception, not the rule.

Mark.
          --------------------------------------------------------
              Mark Summerfield,  Photonics Research Laboratory
Department of Electrical and Electronic Engineering, University of Melbourne  
                ACSnet[AARN/Internet]: summer@ee.mu.oz[.au] 
          --------------------------------------------------------
   "This terminal is no more. It has ceased to be. It's expired and gone
    to meet its maker. This is a late terminal. It's a stiff. Bereft of
     life, it rests in peace. If you hadn't nailed it to the bench, it
      would be pushing up the daisies. It's run down the curtain and
            joined the choir invisible. This is an X-Terminal!"
From: summer@mullian.ee.mu.OZ.AU (Mark Summerfield)
Newsgroups: aus.general
Subject: Re: EFTPOS
Date: 15 Oct 92 04:06:51 GMT
Distribution: aus
Organization: Computer Science, University of Melbourne, Australia

brendan@otc.otca.oz (Brendan Jones) writes:

>In fact, I think there are much less than 10000 possible PINs, because I
>have been led to believe that:

>	- PINs do not start with a '0'
>	- PINs do not have more than 2 digits the same

I once had a card (and I wish to stress the fact that I closed this account
some years back, so don't try tracking me down and robbing me!! :-) which
had '7000' as a PIN. At least half of what you have been led to believe
is wrong!

Mark.
          --------------------------------------------------------
              Mark Summerfield,  Photonics Research Laboratory
Department of Electrical and Electronic Engineering, University of Melbourne  
                ACSnet[AARN/Internet]: summer@ee.mu.oz[.au] 
          --------------------------------------------------------
   "This terminal is no more. It has ceased to be. It's expired and gone
    to meet its maker. This is a late terminal. It's a stiff. Bereft of
     life, it rests in peace. If you hadn't nailed it to the bench, it
      would be pushing up the daisies. It's run down the curtain and
            joined the choir invisible. This is an X-Terminal!"
Newsgroups: aus.general
From: matthew@psych.psy.uq.oz.au (Matthew McDonald)
Subject: Re: EFTPOS
Organization: Psychology Department, University of Queensland
Distribution: aus
Date: Tue, 13 Oct 1992 03:26:57 GMT

CHANDANA PERERA writes:
|> 
|>   Well I have been told by the engineers who design the ATM mechines and the
|>   PIN generation mechines that if you guess or generate the PIN using 
|>   known data (ie Account Num, Name), U will have a proberbility of
|>   around 1/2^256 (ie one in 2 to the power of 256) of getting it right.

	Well, a PIN number's 4 digits - no?
	
	This only allows 10,000 different pin numbers. So my odds of a
random 4-digit number doing the trick must be at least one in 10,000.
That's a lot better than 1 in (2^256), just by guessing. Knowing account
numbers and so on might not help much, but the odds will still be much
better than you're suggesting.

|>   I will be more worried that some one might watch me typing in my
|>   pin, or getting mugged at the ATM than about someone making up a
|>   card like mine to rip off the bank or My self
	
	Mugging people at random ATMs sounds like a better way of ripping
them off, IMHO. Better yet, get one of those yellow credit-card-receipt-
-things and just buy stuff using the account number on it, over the phone.
(Now *there's* a real secure system for you!)

=-=-
           Matthew McDonald  matthew@psych.psy.uq.oz.au
     	Kill the Lawyers. 	Boycott AT&T.
Newsgroups: aus.general
From: ggr@nareen.acci.com.au (Greg Rose)
Subject: Re: RE : EFTPOS
Organization: /etc/organization
Distribution: aus
Date: Tue, 13 Oct 1992 01:28:36 GMT

In article <1992Oct12.011909.26755@latcs1.lat.oz.au> koay@latcs1.lat.oz.au (Jin S. Koay) writes:
>malcolm@nutmeg.cs.ntu.edu.au (Malcolm Caldwell) writes :
>
>>   The PIN is not stored directly on the card. Instead it is generated
>>   from other information on the card (like your account number and name)
>>   using a keyed hashing technique, and the key for this is kept VERY
>>   secret (although it is inside all those little boxes...). If you have
>>   the capability to change the PIN, this is actually done by recording an
>>   "offset" on the card. This offset is added (modulo 10000 for 4-digit
>>   PINs) to what you typed in, then compared against the PIN as calculated
>>   by the keyed hash. In other words, there is enough information on the
>>   card for a machine "in the know" to verify a PIN, but definitely not
>>   enough for you to read the card and figure out the PIN (you also need
>>   to know the ATM network's secret key to achieve this).
>
>so the keyed hashing technique is known throughout the world in order for
>us credit card holders to withdraw cash from overseas ATMs? I am worried....

1. Please attribute articles correctly. I wrote the large block of
text above.

2. The whole point of the hashing technique being KEYED is that you
need to know the KEY. Knowing the technique (read algorithm) gives you
nothing. It is a common misconception that hiding a cryptographic
technique might gain you something -- in fact it rarely does. The techniques in
use are drawn from a number of published standards. If this worries
you, go buy a lathe and start making your own screws -- after all the
banks use standard ones to hold on the fronts of the machines.

--
Greg Rose                 Australian Computing and Communications Institute
ggr@acci.com.au                                              +61 3 282 2532
`Use of the standard phrase "HIJACKED" may be inadvisable' -- CAA
Newsgroups: aus.general
From: sfr@pdact.pd.necisa.oz.au (Stephen F. Rothwell)
Subject: Re: V22 time service via a local PSTN c
Organization: NEC Information Systems Australia, Canberra
Date: Thu, 08 Oct 1992 04:00:46 GMT

The number in Sydney is (02) 2674648.  I have not tried this, but the number
comes from much telephone tag in Telecom :-)

There is (and probably will never be) a number in Canberra.

Stephen Rothwell		sfr@pdact.pd.necisa.oz.au
NEC Information Systems Australia
Software Development Centre
Canberra, Australia
Newsgroups: aus.general