From: "Robert Knowles" <p00261@psilink.com>
Subject: Re: Nailing Christianity: Sufficient Support for Atheism?
Organization: I'm on a coffee break now
Date: Tue, 5 Jan 1993 06:27:10 GMT
X-Mailer: PSILink-DOS (3.3)

>DATE:   Mon, 4 Jan 1993 18:13:22 GMT
>FROM:   Robert Huss <rhuss+@EDRC.CMU.EDU>
>
>	There is a great deal of debunking of Christianity going on
>on this group, but is this really sufficient grounds for Atheism? 

You are correct, it is not.  In fact, as an atheist, I think it is a
total waste of time to attack Christianity.  We have a lot of work to
to do to move atheism beyond its debating phase.  It is just good cheap
fun for atheists to attack religion and a hard habit to break.  I have
my own concerns about all the Bible debating and such that occurs here
as well,  just doesn't seem a proper thing for atheists to do :-}.  But
a good deal of it originates from religious people who monitor this news
group and yank our chains from time to time, from what I have seen.  Some
of the cross-postings do not help, either.

[.. some comments deleted ..] 
 
>	I'm not very schooled in other religions, but I do know that the 
>Islamic faith supports the culture in most Islamic country's and it is likely
>that the culture was similar when the Koran was written.  
>	Christianity is really the only religion to extricate itself from
>the society in which it began.  

Not really,  Islam has spread to a large part of the world and exists in
India, Malaysia and Indonesia which are very different from the Middle East.
Some 90% of the several hundred million people of Indonesia are Muslim.

[..again more stuff deleted..]

>Hinduism, Buddism, Confusionism, Islam, etc..
>all pretty much remained in the area where they formed.  This makes it seem
>like the religion forms the culture.  

Still not true, see above.  Also Buddhism is in Japan and it began near
India/Nepal.  It is true that Hinduism has not moved much (despite the
number of Hare Krishnas you see in airports -- sorry, couldn't resist }:)
but at one time they did move into Malaysia and Indonesia where a few of
them still live.  Confucianism in some form exists just about everywhere
there are Chinese, i.e., all over the world.

[...other stuff deleted, but converse of above applied to Christianity...]

>	Is this enough to say that humans create religion, or just enough
>to say that we shape it to our society?  Is debunking religions enough to
>disprove God?  I'd like to hear what others have to say about this.

Sorry to delete so much, but readers can refer to original, if needed since
your questions still make some sense (I hope).  Besides I need the room :)

I would have to say religion is definitely shaped to our society, and can
point to Malaysia as an Islamic country that is radically different from
say, Saudi Arabia, where Islam originated.  Most atheists are going to
say that humans created religion simply because there is no proof that
anything else was involved.  People may claim religions were revealed to
them in various ways, in deserts, on mountain tops, in burning bushes,
carved in golden tablets, revealed in dreams, etc., but in every case
a human was involved at some point and their claims about the sources of
their inspiration cannot be verified.  We cannot even find Joseph Smith's
golden tablets and that was in the 1800's.  Makes it all very suspect.
No smoking guns to be found anywhere.

Debunking religion does not disprove the existence of god.  We really do
not have to disprove the existence of god.  We simply do not accept the
existence of god until that existence is proven.  A little different, but
more efficient since we would spend our lives disproving every possible
claim of every possible religion.  If someone has a claim, they should
provide the proof.  And the thoroughness of the proof should increase as
the claim grows more spectacular.  God is a pretty big claim, so we would
expect some pretty good proof.  Some atheists say that since there is no
proof, just say it ain't so and get it all out of your life.  

That's my shot at answers.

>
>Bob Huss
>

Newsgroups: alt.atheism,talk.religion.misc