From: rivk@quads.uchicago.edu (nora gayle rivkis)
Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast
Subject: Mark's put both feet in his mouth and tried to jog
Date: 5 Apr 92 08:51:51 GMT
Article-I.D.: midway.1992Apr5.085151.6858
Reply-To: rivk@midway.uchicago.edu
Organization: University of Chicago Computing Organizations

In article <1992Apr5.002822.1649@usenet.ins.cwru.edu> bc744@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Mark Ira Kaufman) writes:
>
>   We're still waiting.  Are you claiming that Arabs denounce 
>terrorist acts, but they just do it secretly?  

No; he, and I, are claiming that Arabs denounce terrorist acts
openly. It's just not the Arabs with a level of prominence likely
to get them in the newspapers.

>What kind of shit 
>do think the world will believe?  You are so full of shit, you
>could fertilize the world with your crap!  

Mark, you're embarrassing the people who started on your side, and
hurting your own case with this kind of insulting garbage. You threw
an unwarranted fit, got a more courteous answer than you deserved (from
Anwar; I can't say about mine, I may have lost my temper), and are com-
pounding the offense not only by repeating it, but by demonstrated that
you haven't understood a word of a simple and rational argument.

>Since the distintion
>between 'Arab' and 'prominent Arab' is so important, why have'nt
>YOU denounced any terrorist acts committed against Jews?  

He has. In answer to a challenge that I posted, which I've cited
for you and can quote if you want. He also sandblasted me for 
assuming he wouldn't be prepared to denounce it and so making him
go through the process of denouncing every idiotic statement and
action any Arab makes -- I have some disagreements with him over
that, but I'll give you the quote if you want it.

Or you could take the word of someone who's fairly well-known to
be about as pro-Zionist as you are, just a bit more effective at
it and, if your recent articles are any clue, a whole lot saner.

>I am
>asking you to quote ANY Arab leader that has denounced terrorism
>against Jews.  

We've been through this before, Mark; the Arab leaders don't, some
of the Arab people do. There are political reasons for this, some
of which I can understand and some of which I consider garbage, but
all of which has been explained to you fairly patiently by the target
of your recent campaign of unwarranted abuse, and I see no need to
repeat something you probably will ignore or not understand anyway.

>And if Arabs in general are against terrorism of 
>Jews, then your leaders do not represent the attitudes of the 
>Arab world.  And if this is the case, then why are they your leaders?

Because a lot of people who are doing some things their followers
like will also say things that are full of shit on occasion? Because
there's a deadly game of oneupmanship going on, where any one of them
who tries to be moderate will be in a lot of trouble with all the others?
Because they've got other agendas to worry about besides making Mark
Kaufman happy?

Note: I don't approve of most of these reasons. I do recognize that
they're reasons, though, and I don't try and claim to anyone's face
that they haven't said something they have.

>I suggest that you stop being a total embarrasment to the world's
>Arabs.  

I suggest that you stop being a total embarrassment to the world's
Jews. And I have a bit more of a right to speak for the people I'm
a part of than you do for the Arabs.

>And as I said before, put up or shut up!

You've demonstrated you can't do the first. Go do the second. Your
socks are soggy and the foam around your mouth is mixed with shoe
polish.

	-Nora
-- 
Oseh shalom b'imromav, hu ya'aseh shalom aleinu v'al kol yisrael.
Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast