HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: mikel@Apple.COM (Mikel Evins)
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
Subject: Re: Martial arts and the gut
Date: 8 Jan 93 19:12:21 GMT
Organization: Apple Computer Inc, Cupertino, CA

In article <1993Jan8.162252.9233@ns.network.com> hahn@plugh.network.com (Peter Hahn) writes:
>In article <76235@apple.apple.COM> mikel@Apple.COM (Mikel Evins) writes:
>>
>>I keep a pretty vigorous schedule, but a little while back I
>>decided to start taking aerobics to try to improve my aerobic
>>conditioning. The class was a high-impact step aerobics class;
>>I found it boring and not particularly challenging, and it cut
>>into my practice time, so I gave it up.
>
>I'll bet the reason you didn't find it challenging is 'cause you made
>the same mistake I did when I tried to take one of these classes --
>eliminating the wasted motion and unnecessary tension from the movements.

Good point. I'll bet you're right. I remember thinking "what's
the big deal? We climb up and down and move all around for an hour; so
what?" And I remember noticing that everybody else seemed to be
wasting all kinds of energy jumping and flailing like idiots.
I don't know why I didn't put the two together before. Must be
getting dumber as I get older.
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
From: jwalters@stsci.edu (THIS SPACE FOR RENT)
Subject: Re: Finishing techniques
Organization: Space Telescope Science Institute
Distribution: usa,na
Date: Tue, 5 Jan 1993 02:38:44 GMT


A couple of weeks ago I was messing around with a friend and came up
with a kotegaeshi varient to use against a knife thrust.  Instead of
twisting the wrist outward or straight up the arm, you twist it inward
and drive the tip of the knife right at uke's nose. 

The physical control of uke's center is rather weak, but the
psychological control is quite strong, as my friend will vouch.  Then
of course there is the direct damage which a real knife could cause. 
On the other hand, if uke is quick she can direct the knife over her
opposite shoulder and then try for a reversal. 

I have never heard of this move before, but other people must have
thought of it.  Do the disadvantages outweigh the advantages? 

				Jim Walters
From: Stovall@f88.n106.z1.fidonet.org (Stovall)
Sender: Jpunix@urchin.fidonet.org
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
Subject: Hapkido weapons
Date: Wed, 06 Jan 1993 19:15:02 -0500

DAH>My question is for all students of Hapkido: what weapons are
DAH>taught in your style?

DAH>My own study was in Korea. There we studied the short stick...the
DAH>belt...the cane, and shini (long sword)...

Dwight, our master teaches only the cane. He says that since it's
the only one you can legitimately carry, it's the one we should
concentrate on - especially us geriatric types. His approach to
Hapkido is extremely pragmatic.

Peace in our time,

Tom Stovall
___
 X SLMR 2.1a X ...noli permetere illigetimi carborundum.
From: scheid@danzan.EBay.Sun.COM (David Scheid)
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
Subject: Re: Judo: the value of competition.
Date: 12 Jan 93 17:10:48 GMT
Reply-To: scheid@danzan.EBay.Sun.COM
Organization: Sun Microsystems, Inc.
NNTP-Posting-Host: danzan.ebay.sun.com

In article A2C@hsi.com, mallon@hsi.com (Dan Mallon-Kraft) writes:
>So, is anybody (besides Phil Porter :-) happy with the current state of
>judo?  It's so hard to find a dojo around here that I have to wonder if
>the overly-competitive side is driving people away.

No need to worry, Dan. Remember, I wrote you that when I saw Phil about
10 months ago, he too was despairing at the "state of Judo" - 
(I guess revenues were down). I told him that he was at fault, he
is the head of (one of) the (the largest?) Judo Org in the country,
and the fact that not everyone walking into a dojo wished to compete
in the Olympics seemed beyond his understanding. 

He admitted that perhaps more emphasis on Kata was needed, to get
the people in and help spread the Judo (once again).

We'll see. Willy Cahill believes that a consolidation of Judo Orgs is
needed - remerging the USJF & USJA into USJI (since USJI controls sports).
Again, emphasis is on sports, Gold Medals, etc. People forget that Judo
is supposed to have a larger curriculum. Many know the name of Mifune, but
he is mostly famous for his Kata, not Shiai. 

Consolidating Orgs changes where the revenue goes - so that probably is
out, not withstanding the fact that certain people wish to control promotions
as well.

I guess, what I should do is write a separate article on the meaning of
Menkyo Kaiden. Without appreciating the teaching side of MA, people will
continue to try to organize and work thru orgs, but when they fail will
not grasp that inherent in MA is the creativity of the individual over an
Org. Once the creative side of the individual takes hold, the Org becomes
irrelevant.

---
Dave Scheid - All Disclaimers Apply
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
From: reid@metis.tti.com (Reid Kneeland)
Subject: Re: Car Jack
Organization: Transaction Technology Inc.
Distribution: usa
Date: Tue, 5 Jan 1993 21:29:52 GMT

In article <1icdviINN712@mirror.digex.com> curt@access.digex.com (curt williams) writes:
>In article <1993Jan5.094913.23429@sei.cmu.edu> psc@sei.cmu.edu (Peter Capell) writes:
>>
>>Nonetheless, I couldn't help but wonder why someone didn't recommend carrying
>>a large gun and blowing big holes in the first (second, and/or third) persons
>
>My reply was
>that I live right outside DC, have a big dog and a Glock, and am doing
>very well with regard to the criminal element.
>
>Given the flames I got from that one, you're in for a s..t storm.

Maybe not; people in rec.m-a tend to have a more enlightened view of
sane, law-abiding adults owning weapons.  (Meaning that they
typically posess the requisite complement of neurons to distinguish
between self-defense and criminal violence, and between agent and
tool, unlike your average netter.)

Of course, a gun is not a panacea, and drawing a gun is not always the
most prudent thing to do, especially if uke is already pointing one at
you.  In the case of the hammer (or other blunt instrument), it sounds
like it would work though.

By the way, if you (everyone) haven't yet done so, you might want to
drop in on rec.guns for a while.  Most of the discussion is technical
and hardware-oriented, but there are recurrent threads about the
tactics, psychology, ethics, and legality of self-defense which are
applicable to m-a, especially with regard to weapons and potentially
lethal techniques.  It's a (very well-) moderated group, so the S/N
ratio is one of the best on the net.

=====================================================================
Reid Kneeland
reid@tti.com  (that's MISTER reid@tti.com to you!)
Transaction Technology Inc., Santa Monica, CA, USA (310) 450-9111 x2499
The opinions expressed above do not necessarily etc etc...

Never trust a man who can count to 1,023 on his fingers.
From: esot@troi.cc.rochester.edu (Eric Sotnak)
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
Subject: What is enlightenment?
Date: 9 Jan 93 19:19:41 GMT
Organization: University of Rochester - Rochester, New York


  This doesn't really belong on rec.martial-arts, but since so many
martial arts practitioners have a great interest in Eastern
philosophical/religious traditions (especially via the concept of a DO
(as in aikiDO, juDO, etc.), ...

  The sentiment has often been expressed in this group that
enlightenment is something which cannot be understood by discursive
thought, and therefore anyone who pretends to say what enlightenment is
must not really know.  This sentiment, however, is a manifestation of a
confusion.

  It is very easy to say what enlightenment is.  But saying what
enlightenment is and getting it are entirely different things.

  According to the Buddhist (including Zen) tradition, enlightenment is
(simply) understanding by direct insight the fundamental character of
reality.  This is to be distinguished (classically) from Nirvana, which
is a state (I won't say of existence) characterized positively by
equanimity and free functioning, and negatively by absence of "ill"
(duhkha) and by liberation from the cycle of
birth-death-rebirth-redeath.  Enlightenment is the means to the
attainment of Nirvana (as opposed to pari-nirvana).

  Something else that is frequently overlooked is that enlightenment has
gradations.  Someone may have multiple experiences of enlightenment of
varying degrees of depth and with varying degrees of transformative
effect.  One often encounters such multiple enlightenment experiences in
Zen records.  In modern Rinzai Zen, students must "solve" a progression
of koan, where the solution to each koan is (at least in theory) marked
by some measure of enlightened insight (in fact, students are often
passed without having attained such insight -- a sign of the decline of
the Dharma, perhaps).

  As for the question of whether or not some particular netter or other
is "enlightened," this should be a matter of the profoundest
insignificance.  Such an enlightened one could, at best, simply state
what can be read in many classical Eastern philosophic texts as the the
ultimate character of reality ("Yup, things are characterized by
emptiness of essence, alright.")  Being enlightened won't reveal the
"right" way to do a front snap kick, iriminage, or how to shatter a
brick with one's qi.  Perhaps an enlightened person would display
certain character traits such as an unwillingness to indulge in
flame-wars or to make grandiose claims about him/herself and his/her
martial art, but, after all, this is what we really expect of ANY
civilized participant in this forum.


--
********************************************************************
Eric Sotnak                   |  One life.
esot@troi.cc.rochester.edu    |  One chance.
From: scheid@danzan.EBay.Sun.COM (David Scheid)
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
Subject: Budo DOJO - New Mag
Date: 9 Jan 1993 16:54:47 GMT
Organization: Sun Microsystems, Inc.
Distribution: usa
Reply-To: scheid@danzan.EBay.Sun.COM
NNTP-Posting-Host: danzan.ebay.sun.com


A new magazine called "Budo DOJO", presented by MASTER magazine
is now available. It is published by Pacific Rim Publishing, Inc. 
PO Box 31578, San Francisco, CA, 94131. Street price is $4.95. (Qtrly)

Subscriptions are $19,80/yr and $6.20 for single and back issues.

Pretty good articles.

---
Dave Scheid - All Disclaimers Apply
From: curt@access.digex.com (curt williams)
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
Subject: Re: high school kids
Date: 6 Jan 1993 00:30:45 GMT
Organization: Express Access Online Communications, Greenbelt, MD USA
Distribution: usa
NNTP-Posting-Host: access.digex.com

>	I wanted to say that what makes a Marine a tough person in a 
>hand-to-hand situation is their physical and mental conditioning, not that
>they're expert hand-to-hand fighters, but *I* was afraid to start a flamewar...
>
I agree with you 100%.  There is currently no coherent martial arts training
program in general use within the Fleet Marine Force.  Regardless of who's
been on the cover of Black Belt Magazine in the last ~24 months or what
they've said.  Most Marines who study karate practice Isshin Ryu, because
of informal ties with the founder of that organization.

If anyone would care to flame me on this issue, I be glad to state
exactly what my Marine Corps (I didn't say martial art-- I'm following
the protocol here) qualifications are.

>	Well, *I've* been thrown by a physically weak person...  In fact,
>physically weak, relatively speaking, but she does throw me...  I think this
>is a question of _semantics_ more than anything else...   What's "weak" ?

Semantics it is.  I am not speaking in terms of ability to lift some
specific weight.  I know some children who only dream of lifting the
amount of weight I can lift, but they are by no stretch of the
imagination "weak."  Strength is relative to physical size, age,
development, gender and probably a few other things that escape me 
right now.  Perhaps "toned" or "conditioned" is a better concept.
From: robinson@cogsci.Berkeley.EDU (Michael Robinson)
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
Subject: Re: pinyin
Date: 8 Jan 1993 21:57:42 GMT
Organization: Institute of Cognitive Studies, U.C. Berkeley
NNTP-Posting-Host: cogsci.berkeley.edu

In article <1993Jan8.084010.24802@sei.cmu.edu> psc@sei.cmu.edu (Peter Capell) writes:
>But then again, considering your statement, how can it be true?  There is
>no "q" or "x" in mandarin, so how can native speakers have a sound associated
>with english letters?

Therein lies the source of confusion.  Pinyin has nothing to do with English.

It is a *romanization* scheme, which is to say, it is mapping of Mandarin 
phonemes onto the Latin alphabet.  Of course, some effort is made to make
this mapping as consistent as possible with *all the other languages*
(everything from Turkish to Vietnamese) that map their phonemes onto the
Latin alphabet.


>So what's the point of creating a level of indirection that has absolutely no
>intuitive mapping to normal english phonemes.

Or as some like-minded person once said, "English: if it was good enough for
Jesus, it's good enough for me."

-- 
  ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
  Michael Robinson                          UUCP:   ucbvax!cogsci!robinson
                                        INTERNET: robinson@cogsci.berkeley.edu
From: sog@craycos.com (Steve Gombosi)
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
Subject: Re: NINJUTSU
Date: 11 Jan 93 02:53:09 GMT
Organization: Cray Computer Corporation

In article <1993Jan10.194632.1@desire.wright.edu> jchristian@desire.wright.edu writes:
>In article <7026.897.uupcb@meaddata.com>, jo.lavoy%theweb@meaddata.com (Jo Lavoy)  writes:
>>      I've posted a couple of things here about ninjutsu but rarely see a
>> reply and NEVER a reply to me (which is downright discouraging when you
>> have to wade through hundreds of messages).   Is there nobody else here
>> who studies Togakure ryu Ninjutsu?  Even better would be to "meet"
>> someone who attended Stephen K. Hayes' seminars and who was working
>> within his Kasumi-An system.
>>    
>
>I've tried to email you several times, but I haven't heard anything back.  Just
>in case you're not getting my messages, I figured I would notify you on the
>newsgroup that I'm interested in talking to you.

Well, of *course* you can't email him! Those ninjas are *invisible* to
sendmail, you know!

Steve
From: poore@dirac.scri.fsu.edu (David Poore)
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
Subject: Re: T'ai Chi or Pa Kua in Palo Alto area
Date: 12 Jan 93 13:53:20 GMT
Reply-To: poore@dirac.scri.fsu.edu (David Poore)
Organization: Florida State University

>poore@dirac.scri.fsu.edu (David Poore) writes:
>>In article <1993Jan5.083528.10132@netcom.com> gperkins@netcom.com (Glen C. Perkins) writes:
>>I think you'd be better off in Taipei instead.
>In fact, there is some possibility of my going to either
>Taipei or Beijing in the future. If I could manage it, who
>would I want to study with? (xingyi, bagua) (I speak
>Chinese, BTW, so language is not an issue.)

Well, I was really just joking, though there are many fine boxers in
Taiwan as well as on the mainland. 

Speaking Chinese well (Mandarin?) will certainly help, but without
proper introductions you may find yourself hard pressed to find anything
worth studying. I was refering specifically to the off-shoots of the
Hung family school of Xingyi.

David Poore
poore@dirac.scri.fsu.edu

Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
From: shulick@navajo.ucs.indiana.edu (Sam Hulick)
Subject: Re: The Meaning Behind Style Names
Organization: Vallen Software
Date: Wed, 13 Jan 1993 00:20:12 GMT

In article <naam.726875288@terra.cecer.army.mil>, naam@cecer.army.mil (Ramez Naam) says most sayishly:
>mholden@bcarh786.bnr.ca (Mark Holden) writes:
>
>>Hi,
>
>>I'm a casual reader of this newsgroup. I was just wondering if anybody
>>has a list of, or knows the meanings of, the various style names, or parts
>>of style names.
>
>Gojuryu = go + ju + ryu = "hard" + "soft" + "style".

That's not Japanese, is it?  I thought ryu in Japanese means "dragon."

-- 
    // Amiga 3000   ___ \ Sam Hulick: shulick@indiana.edu (NeXTmail OK!)
   // 68030 25 MHz /__/\ \ My opinions wear combat boots.  Or whatever.
\\// OS 2.04       \__\/ / "Walk!  Not bloody likely.  I am going in a
 \/                     / taxi."  --George Bernard Shaw
From: robinson@cogsci.Berkeley.EDU (Michael Robinson)
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
Subject: Re: Taiji question - long form versus short forms
Date: 5 Jan 1993 22:46:47 GMT
Organization: Institute of Cognitive Studies, U.C. Berkeley
NNTP-Posting-Host: cogsci.berkeley.edu

In article <ofGRHem00iU44FzVc0@andrew.cmu.edu> Stephen Chan <sc1u+@andrew.cmu.edu> writes:
>	Given that you could get equivalent instruction, is the long
>form better for practice or would it be better to have a short form,
>so that you can concentrate on basics?

The important qualifier, though, is, "given that you would spend the same 
amount of time and energy practicing."

In which case, the long form is much better. 

>If the form is very long, then
>you may end up slaving away, trying to remember the fine nuances of
>the form, while your attention to basic principles starts to wane.

Quite the contrary.  Remembering a long form is not much harder than
remembering a short form.  It is, however, much harder to get into the
"groove" during a short form, and there is a greater temptation to be
impatient and hurry because the end is always near.

It is when one is in the "groove" and one's mind is in the moment that
attention to basic principles is most productive.

Short forms are for people who don't have the time and commitment for 
long forms.

>	But if a long form is easy to remember because of multiple
>repeated sequences, then why bother with all the repetition within a
>single form - why not just repeat a shorter form a few times?

Because then you lose the "big picture"--all the subtleties and nuance.
Sort of like a Beethoven piano concerto ("since the same theme keeps occuring
over and over again, why not just repeat the theme a few times instead of
playing the whole thing?").


-- 
  ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
  Michael Robinson                          UUCP:   ucbvax!cogsci!robinson
                                        INTERNET: robinson@cogsci.berkeley.edu
From: joe@bulldog.sybase.com (Joseph Weinstein)
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
Subject: Books on Gracie JiuJitsu?
Date: 11 Jan 93 18:25:50 GMT
Reply-To: joe@bulldog.sybase.com (Joseph Weinstein)
Organization: Sybase, Inc.

I'd be very interested in any books that teach Gracie JiuJitsu.

Also, Are there any schools teaching that style in the San Francisco
Bay area?


--
Joe Weinstein   joe@sybase.com   Sybase 1650 65th st.  Emeryville Ca 94608

NOT A DISCLAIMER!   THIS IS THE OFFICIAL OPINION OF AN IMPORTANT CORPORATE
                    ENTITY (NOT SYBASE).     FOR COMPLETE DETAILS SEND $10
Organization: University of Illinois at Chicago
Date: Mon, 11 Jan 1993 23:13:42 CST
From: David James Alexander Hanley <U16244@uicvm.uic.edu>
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
Subject: Re: Wary about pre-class workouts (*puff puff*)
 <C0p7s4.Jqu@usenet.ucs.indiana.edu>

  In my opinion ( which is just that, my opinion ) excercises before class
are important, and I usually do extra.  Not only does it help to limber you
up, but it gets them primed so that they can really be conditioned by the
upcoming practice.  Also, it is important to remember that if you do need
to use these techniques someday, you might not be in ideal conditions.  You
might be tired, already hurt, drunk, whatever.  I beleive that a BIG part
of martial arts is NOT technique.  It is being able to face the situation
with confidence and a calm( open ) mind.  Practicing tired or under adverse
conditions will help to enforce this.


-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"In every country and in every age, the priest has been hostile to liberty.
He is always in alliance with the despot, abetting his abuses in return for
protection to his own" - Thomas Jefferson, 1814

SEND E-MAIL TO : hanley1@earth.eecs.uic.edu
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
From: afsar@iscnvx.lmsc.lockheed.com (Haji Firoz)
Subject: Re: Attitide to female during sparring.
Organization: Lockheed Missiles and Space Co.
X-Newsreader: Tin 1.1 PL4
Date: Tue, 5 Jan 93 21:27:35 GMT

This is very obvious that a male and female are not physically equal.
However this is the way I spar a person who is not physically equal my strength 
or experience. 
I will attack him/her with full power and full speed but I stop
about 1/4 inches before I strike him/her with my blows. This way the person with
less experience or less strength gets the real feeling of sparring and as he/she
improves I may strike him/her with my belows until he/she is ready for full
contact.
If you hit your partner more than he/she does then in a short time you will lose
your partner. It means they will not come to dojo. I have seen that often and 
it is the instructor's responsibility to match the people.
If you ever think that you are good in sparring then pick on an experience
advance student and you will be humble in a minute.
Please remember never hit/strike the week person since you may be victim too.

Haj
From: jo.lavoy%theweb@meaddata.com (Jo Lavoy) 
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
Subject: RE: NINJUTSU
Date: 12 Jan 93 08:35:00 GMT
Distribution: world
Organization: The Web BBS 1-513-436-9011 6 Lines 1200 News groups 50,000 files!
Reply-To: jo.lavoy%theweb@meaddata.com (Jo Lavoy) 

Ah, but Steve, it's even worse than you think.  "Jo" is a feminine fore,
as opposed to "Joe" which is masculine.  So...I am female.
From: jchristian@desire.wright.edu
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
Subject: Re: Martial arts and the gut
Date: 6 Jan 93 13:50:01 EST
Organization:  Wright State University 

 
> You worry about your belly, but if I were to cut it open with a large
> blade, you would look at me and say not, "Why have you cut my handsome
> belly?" but "Why have you killed my life?"  Then isn't the life more
> important than the belly?  And isn't the spirit more important than the
> life?

Let me play devil's advocate for a moment.

One of Nietzsche's criticisms of Plato was in the whole body/spirit emphasis. 
Plato writes that the body is subordinate to the spirit, like a house that is
useless unless occupied.  Nietzsche called Plato a "despiser of the body" in an
apparent condemnation of the spirit being elevated at the cost of neglecting
the body.

I've read that the mind/body/spirit separation is an artificial one, a
separation that we have created for our own convenience, when in actuality all
three components are necessary for life.  There can be no life without the
spirit, there can be no life without a mind, and there can be no life without a
body to give the spirit and mind material substance with which to act.

It is common for martial artists to aspire to the elevated balance of mind,
body, and spirit.  All three components are necessary for us to exist, and to
neglect or dismiss any one is to neglect or dismiss that which makes us human. 
I, for one, am not willing to give up my humanity to develop a superspirit.  I
would prefer an inspired spirit balanced with an appropriate mind and body.

Again, I'm not necessarily disagreeing with you.  Lots of stuff you've said
that I agree with.  But I'm curious to see how you will respond to Nietzsche's
criticism of an even older argument.

Jeff
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
From: davebeck@sdf.lonestar.org (Dave Beck)
Subject: Re: Hapkido
Organization: sdf public access Unix, Dallas -- 214-436-3281
Date: Thu, 7 Jan 1993 05:15:22 GMT

Under Master Pak where I first studied, the only weapon we worked with was
the Pakiton - basically a tonfa.  A slightly longer version known as a
PR-20 was used by some local police.  Where I study now under Master Kim,
knife defenses are taught at 1st dan, cane techniques at 2nd, staff at 3rd,
and sword at 4th.  A few belt techniques are taught at 3rd, and a few sword 
defenses at each black belt level.  

Dave the Former DM
davebeck@sdf.lonestar.org