HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: clemens@ms.uky.edu
Newsgroups: comp.os.coherent
Subject: Re: Linux v. Coherent: Comments
Date: 7 Jan 93 17:03:18 GMT
Reply-To: "Coherent operating system" <COHERENT@indycms.bitnet>

> > Please, enough of the Linux v. Coherent arguments!  This is the Coherent
>
> Lighten up, man.  The posts were a response to a rookie who was
> interested in hearing a comparison of the two OS's.

I enjoy the comparisons. It provides a very useful review of both systems
and points to features that I may or may not desire in the next release.

I find Coherent very useful but also look forward to the addition of
tcpip.
--

Richard Clemens    Associate Professor of Business and Computer Science
                   West Virginia Wesleyan College
                   Buckhannon, WV  26201  (304) 473-8480
                   acpwvw!auxrcc!clemens@ms.uky.edu
From: magus@drktowr.chi.il.us (Louis Giliberto)
Newsgroups: comp.os.coherent
Subject: Re: Additional Packages for Coherent
Date: 8 Jan 93 18:09:32 GMT
Organization: DarkTower Software
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1 PL7]

Michael Bruce Tepin (mike@shell.portal.com) wrote:
: This is an honest question.  There is no attempt at starting any trouble or
: flame wars or anything.  I truely don't understand.  Why are the GNU compilers
: and utilites FREE for MSDOS, OS/2, and Linux but cost money for Coherent?

So are all the other programs that are on the CohWare disks.  You can
get many of them free if you call mwcbbs.

The difference is that they are precompiled and debugged (well, debugged
is relative).  And shipped to you on disk with installation software.

So the answer is this:  they are free unless you get them from MWC.  If
you get them from MWC, you are paying for distribution, porting, debugging,
etc.  I bought them because I don't have time to fiddle with them, but
if I had the time, I would use what I got off the net.

Also, for people not on the net and too far to call Northbrook, IL, it
works out to be cost equivalent to ordering them.  A call from England,
say, to Northbrook IL to download 1 meg of binaries for GCC would be
$40 easy and that's at 9600bps on a clean line (takes approx. 40-50 
minutes).  At 2400bps it would be even more.  You can get it shipped
to you ready to go for the same price.

So, paying for them is pretty much an option.  You can find most
of them elsewhere.  It's just a service MWC provides at a reasonable
(IMHO) charge.  Most *nix manufacturers provide no such option, and
you have to port/compile/debug on your own.  I think it's a good idea
for people like me.

-Louis
--
--------------------------------------------------------------------
 Louis J. Giliberto, Jr.   ! magus@drktowr.chi.il.us
   -sysadmin drktowr       !   "I had an account at school, but the
   Chicago, IL  USA        !    quota was 300K - what's the point?
Home of DarkTower Software !    One Madonna .gif and it's over!"
--------------------------------------------------------------------
"Try his first wife's maiden name" -- Cheshire Catalyst
--------------------------------------------------------------------
Newsgroups: comp.os.coherent
From: zjoc01@hou.amoco.com (Jack O. Coats)
Subject: Simple Word Processor for Neophite?
Reply-To: zjoc01@hou.amoco.com
Organization: Amoco
Date: Mon, 4 Jan 1993 15:04:42 GMT


Is there a simple word processor that is very easy to use available?  I would like one directed toward the non-computer user but that will run under Coherent.
Xref: sparky comp.os.coherent:6595 comp.os.linux:22848
From: kf8nh@kf8nh.wariat.org (Brandon S. Allbery)
Newsgroups: comp.os.coherent,comp.os.linux
Subject: Re: Linux v. Coherent: Comments
Date: Tue, 05 Jan 93 18:36:32 EST
Distribution: world
Organization: Brandon S. Allbery's Personal System

rick@ee.uwm.edu (Rick Miller) writes:
> > How do the two match up? The technical prowess of the two should
> > be one of the main focal points of the comparison.
> 
> I've never personally used coherent, so I don't know all the specifics.
> And I've heard that there's a new Coherent out (or about to come out)...
>  (deleted)
> If by "standard unix stuff" you mean things like the sources found on
> comp.sources.unix, then Linux will handle most of what you want right
> 'out-of-the-box'.  With Linux, you've got a whole net-full of consultants
> who know various aspects of Linux inside and out (as opposed to the one or
> few who *really* know Coherent).  They're even fairly friendly and helpful!

I'm not a Coherent guru, nor do I play one on the Net :-) but I can answer
some questions about it based on a presentation at the local Unix SIG
meeting.

The BIG advantage of Coherent (including the current 4.0 version) is that
it's compact; it needs less than 10 MB of disk and runs in 1 MB of RAM (!).
(Of course, doing something *useful* on such a system is somewhat difficult
:-)  The 3.x versions run on 286 and possibly still on 8088; 4.0 requires a
386 processor.

Coherent has a fairly good C compiler (the Mark Williams compiler suite).
It does *not* have, and currently extant versions can not support:

- demand paging
- networking (either TCP/IP or Novell, or any other, unless you count uucp or
  KA9Q)
- X

It *does* have limited SCO UNIX binary compatibility, but without C2 (this
is a fault?*  :-), networking, and console ioctls for keyboard/scancode mode,
sound, video modes, etc.

Mark Williams Co. claims the 4.1 version will have TCP/IP and X capability.
(There goes the small size!  :-)

Aside from that I can't say much; you might want to see if there's a
comp.os.coherent.advocacy newsgroup :-)

++Brandon
* SCO's C2 is one of the most obnoxious implementations ever seen on a
computer.  Which, considering that SCO UNIX by itself is not certifiable as
secure, is a bit ridiculous.

He's BAAAACK! Brandon S. Allbery     NOTE NEW ADDRESS!!! kf8nh@kf8nh.wariat.org

Newsgroups: comp.os.coherent
From: sje@xylos.ma30.bull.com (Steven J. Edwards)
Subject: Problem with uucico; fails to call uuxqt
Reply-To: sje@xylos.ma30.bull.com
Organization: Bull HN, Worldwide Information Systems, Billerica, Mass., USA
Distribution: comp
Date: 4 Jan 93 11:40:41

I have a pair of machines in my lab that are both running Coherent 4.0
with the latest standard MWC UUCP software.  I have configured them
both for UUCP; both can call mwcbbs okay, but there is a difficulty
when the two machines connect to each other using uucico via a direct
serial link.

The two machines are configured identically except for two items: the
uucpnames are different (of course), and one machine orginates
connections while the other provides a getty/login.

First, I note that the uucp program works fine from both sides,
although the side that provides a login has to wait for the other side
to call before transferring the files.  There is an occasional
transmission error as one of the machines, a 386 SX, is apparently not
able to keep up with 9600 bps under all circumstances.

Now, for the uucico problem: The connection setup is okay, the
transfers take place without error, and the connection finishes
without any diagnostics.  Unfortunately, while mail is transferred
properly in both directions, only the calling uucico runs uuxqt after
the call.  This means that mail sent and received by the system is
placed into users' mailboxes automatically only by the originating
machine.  I have reversed the configuration on the two machines and
the problem remains: uuxqt (the party responsible for scanning X files
in the appropriate spool directories) is not running on the responding
machine.

I have a workaround for this.  I modified the uucp crontab file to run
uuxqt every fifteen minutes and this forces received mail to be
distributed into users' mailboxes (/usr/spool/mail subdirectories).
However, I feel that there is some implementation fault with uucico
that needs correction: uuxqt on the called side should be run
automatically after each uucico completion.  I see no reason to delay
the local delivery of received mail.

 [The above opinions expressed are my own; not necessarily held by others.]
      == Steven J. Edwards           Bull HN Information Systems Inc. ==
      == (508) 294-3484              300 Concord Road         MS 820A ==
      == sje@xylos.ma30.bull.com     Billerica, MA 01821          USA ==
"That Government which Governs the Least, Governs Best." -- Thomas Jefferson
Xref: sparky comp.os.coherent:6696 comp.os.linux:23304
From: kf8nh@kf8nh.wariat.org (Brandon S. Allbery)
Newsgroups: comp.os.coherent,comp.os.linux
Subject: Re: Linux v. Coherent: Comments
Date: Fri, 08 Jan 93 20:06:43 EST
Distribution: world
Organization: Brandon S. Allbery's Personal System

mtarrant@ATK.COM (Mike Tarrant) writes:
> >   to *get* all that code from?  Are they dealing with Satan? or *worse*...
> 
> I tried to figure out who could be worse then Satan to get
> code from -- then it occured to me -- Microsoft...

Well, no.  We refer to Micro$oft as "the Gates of Hell" for a reason....  :-)

++Brandon

--
He's BAAAACK! Brandon S. Allbery     NOTE NEW ADDRESS!!! kf8nh@kf8nh.wariat.org
From: dragos_m@pi-bucuresti.th-darmstadt.de
Newsgroups: comp.os.coherent
Subject: Serial boards
Date: 6 Jan 93 09:45:48 GMT
Reply-To: "Coherent operating system" <COHERENT@indycms.bitnet>


        Hello !
        For whoever is interested in multi-serial boards, I'm interested too
and I intend to build one on my own (I have some ideas). Any suggestion/ideas
are welcome !
        Please contact me directly.

        Thanks,
        Dragos

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
                           Dragos Manolescu
     Private: Arhitect Stefan Burcus 16, Bucharest 71267, Romania
           Phone/Modem: +40-(1)-618-3167, +40-(1)-618-1681
          Electronic: dragos_m@pi-bucuresti.th-darmstadt.de
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
From: dragos_m@pi-bucuresti.th-darmstadt.de
Newsgroups: comp.os.coherent
Subject: Re: Coherent-Linux
Date: 7 Jan 93 09:51:46 GMT
Reply-To: "Coherent operating system" <COHERENT@indycms.bitnet>

Thanks for your reply. I'll try it very soon.

Dragos
From: kilroy@acme.gen.nz (earthbound misfit, I)
Newsgroups: comp.os.coherent
Subject: Re: ATclock, etc.
Keywords: clock realtime
Date: 5 Jan 93 09:56:05 GMT
Reply-To: kilroy@acme.gen.nz (earthbound misfit, I)
Organization: ACME BBS - Public Access Usenet, Palmerston North, New Zealand

fredex@fcshome.UUCP (fred smith) writes:

> A few weeks ago I got a program "adjclock" from the net. This program
> allows you to run it as a daemon, which will periodically tweak the
> system time a bit in order to compensate for inaccurate clocks. It
> uses stime() to do this. I was thinking, however, that it would be
> nice to actually tweak the hardware clock instead (or in addition to 
> this), so that the hardware and software clocks won't drift apart.
> I could do "system ("ATclock yymmddhhmm.ss");", but that's rather a
> hack.
> 
> This seems like something that a lot of you could use, since I've
> seen a number of complaints on the net about system clocks drifting
> off pretty badly. If I can resolve this problem (and a couple of 
> others) I'll gladly redistribute to Coherent folks.

I wonder how necessary this is? Have you measured the accuracy of the
hardware clock in your system?

The reason I ask is that I've found that if my system is left running for a
week or so, the time will drift up to 10m or so from the correct time, but
the hardware clock remains accurate and the system will show the correct
time after a reboot. I've been meaning to put "date '/etc/ATclock'" in my
root crontab run weekly or something to fix this (or perhaps run with at
instead to prevent odd timing problems).

						- k
-- 
Craig Harding            kilroy@acme.gen.nz             ACME BBS +64 6 3551342
"Jub'er lbh pnyyvat n obmb?"
Newsgroups: comp.os.coherent,comp.os.linux
From: ppc1@cec2.wustl.edu (Peter Pui Tak Chiu)
Subject: cannot login at all!!!
Organization: Washington University, St. Louis MO
Date: Fri, 8 Jan 1993 01:54:10 GMT

hi everyone...

i deleted /etc/utmp in a virtual console and tried to login from another
VC, but linux said "/etc/utmp: no such file or directory" and i was not
allowed to login...

then i created /etc/utmp with a single carriage return in it and tried
logging in aain.  this time it said:
 	must start from the lowest "sh"... something like that...

i thought a reboot would fix it but it didn't.  the same message shows
up when i want to login.  so now i can't login.

can anyone give me a hand?

thanks in advance

peter

Newsgroups: comp.os.coherent
From: d10590@tanus.oz.au (Robert Chalmers)
Subject: elm
Organization: Pro-Net Australia
Date: Sun, 10 Jan 93 07:30:05 GMT

Thanks for the help with elm return addressing file problems.
I got into elm and discovered a few problems. On major one being that
the hdrs/sysdefs.h file was NOY\ NOT being updated by Configure. I ran
the sysdefs.SH file on it and presto. I have also fixed a lot of other stuff
while I was at it. The fixed Coherent version is on its way to MWC, and
from there to raven. Both the elm complete package, and the disk pack of
binaries for beginner installation, with the fixed elm on board. The
first one works, but this one works better.....
who was it who said If it works, don't fix it....
Bob
_________________________________________________________________________
|Robert Chalmers. d10590@tanus.oz.au       Mackay, Queensland. Australia|
|APCUG nanguo!root   (AUS)               UUCP mwcbbs!nanguo!earth  (USA)|
|---------------------* ao zhong youyi wan sui *------------------------|
|  UUCP nanguo!root  +61  79-521070 AEST:24 Hours. in:nuucp rd:uupublic |
|  MYNAME=bbsuser   ~/INFO   Australian-Pacific Coherent User Group     |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------------|
From: dragos_m@pi-bucuresti.th-darmstadt.de
Newsgroups: comp.os.coherent
Subject: Thanks{_
Date: 6 Jan 93 09:45:45 GMT
Reply-To: "Coherent operating system" <COHERENT@indycms.bitnet>


        Hello netters !
        Thanks for the replies I've received.
        Also, thanks for the MS-DOS 'fdisk /mbr' trick.

        As I'll temporary SIGNOFF this mailing list, you could reach me direct-
ly. But I'll be back here, as this is a *VERY* interesting mailing list.

        Good luck in 1993 !


        Regards,
        Dragos

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
                           Dragos Manolescu
     Private: Arhitect Stefan Burcus 16, Bucharest 71267, Romania
           Phone/Modem: +40-(1)-618-3167, +40-(1)-618-1681
          Electronic: dragos_m@pi-bucuresti.th-darmstadt.de
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
From: magus@drktowr.chi.il.us (Louis Giliberto)
Newsgroups: comp.os.coherent
Subject: cpio help needed
Date: 8 Jan 93 12:46:45 GMT
Organization: DarkTower Software
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1 PL7]

Hi guys,

Here is a problem I've encountered 3 times now, and I don't know
if I'm doing something wrong.

Since I've gotten Coh, I've changed hard drives 3 times.  First it
was on a 40 meg drive, then a 60 meg, then a 120 meg.  Now I have
it running on both the 60 and the 120 meg (I made root the
60 meg drive and 120 is partitioned into /usr2 and /usr/local)
drives and it works fine.

When I move it, I back up the system twice (of course) with cpio.  Then
I install coherent on the new disk and restore my backup with cpio.
I adjust the kernel to what it was before and everything like that goes
ok.

The only problem is this:  when I restore a cpio backup, all the file
bits, including any "s" bits that are set, are correct, but the owner
and group are all changed to root (I run shutdown and restore from
single-user mode on the console).  So I have to go through and hope
I get the owner and everything right when I change it all back.  For
the standard stuff, I can mount the distribution floppies and look and
see what it was set at, but for the stuff I installed I tend to forget
(it took me 4 hours to figure out that tin doesn't run setuid/setgid).
Also, cpio doesn't remember empty directories.

Is there any way to get cpio to:

1) Restore the owner and group of the files properly
2) Save and restore empty directories (like might be needed for news 
   and such).

-Louis
--
--------------------------------------------------------------------
 Louis J. Giliberto, Jr.   ! magus@drktowr.chi.il.us
   -sysadmin drktowr       !   "I had an account at school, but the
   Chicago, IL  USA        !    quota was 300K - what's the point?
Home of DarkTower Software !    One Madonna .gif and it's over!"
--------------------------------------------------------------------
"Try his first wife's maiden name" -- Cheshire Catalyst
--------------------------------------------------------------------
From: hph@hphbbs.E.open.de (H.P. Heidinger, Essen)
Newsgroups: comp.os.coherent
Distribution: world
Subject: Re: Coherent v4 SCSI and ST-506
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1 PL8]
Organization: HPHBBS-COHERENT User Conference/Germany (CUC-Ger)
Date: Mon,  4 Jan 93 09:06:04 +0100

Udo Munk (udo@umunk.GUN.de) wrote:
: Trev Roydhouse (trev@asstdc.oz.au) wrote:
: :  > From: udo@umunk.GUN.de (Udo Munk)

: :  > the Adaptec AH-1542 SCSI controller is the best one 
: :  > available today for ISA bus systems. But be warned 
: :  > this controller uses busmaster DMA and has problems 
: :  > with some motherboards. The problem is that you are losing 
: :  > characters on the serial lines when there is heavy disk 
: :  > I/O.  This problem does not occur only under COHERENT, 

: :  ... under MS/PC-DOS too. However, the problem is easily solved by installing a
: : replacement UART, the NS16550AFN in place of the 8250 or 16450. Of course, VLSI
: : serial port chipsets preclude this option, although I hear there is a 16550
: : VLSI chipset now.  

: Not in every case. I know about systems where this problem is worse
: with a 16550, because now a whole FIFO is lost. The problem is the
                                                  ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
: bus on/off timing, if the DMA controlls the bus for a too long time
  ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
: the CPU can't read out the FIFO of the UART. This problem ist greater
: under UNIX then under DOS, because handling the interrupts is much
: more expensive.

  NO! The problem is NOT the Bus-On/Off-Timing. I wrote a tool
  'ahaset' which could set the Busmaster-Timing in the whole range.
  Using this tool I set the bus-timing to 'worst case' for the disk
  i.e. 2 ys (micro-seconds) Bus-On, 64 ys Bus-Off, but this didn't improve
  anything.
  I believe that the new scatter/gather-support in the ADAPTEC-Driver
  crushes other I/O.
  EACH disk access is to detriment of tty I/O - even at only 1200
  baud. With COHERENTs ADAPTEC driver it is definitly IMPOSSIBLE to 
  work over tty lines independent of direction.

  Replacing UARTs (->16550AFN) cures nothing but makes things worse, 
  since disk-access from the provided ADAPTEC driver trashes entire
  FiFo-buffers. Actually it is impossible to use FiFo-UARTs, because 
  UUCPs 'uucico' has severe sycronization problems with whole
  FiFo-buffers trashed, which results in broke UUCP connections all
  the time.
  
  
Regards, Peter
--
####################===============================****************************
# H.P. Heidinger   # Call  : +49-201-287433 (data) * ~~ HPHBBS ~~~ CUC-Ger ~~ *
# Steeler Str. 121 #       : V22/32/42bis, 8N1     * COHERENT User Conference *
# 4300 Essen 1     # E-Mail: hph@CUC-Ger.E.open.de *         Germany          *
# Germany          # Login : guest or "anon. UUCP" * UUlog=nuucp/MYNAME=nuucp *
####################===============================****************************
#  UNIX is a trademark of AT&T ...  AT&T is a modem test command ....  :-)    #
--
From: rmk@rmkhome.UUCP (Rick Kelly)
Newsgroups: comp.os.coherent
Subject: Re: Socket Emulation
Date: 5 Jan 93 22:30:59 GMT
Reply-To: rmkhome!rmk@merk.com (Rick Kelly)
Organization: The Man With Ten Cats

In article <1ic5esINNmpt@uwm.edu> rick@ee.uwm.edu (Rick Miller, Linux Device Registrar) writes:
>kilroy@acme.gen.nz (earthbound misfit, I) writes:
>>A month or so ago I read somewhere (possibly on the Coherent TCPIP mailing
>>list, which has been very quiet if not defunct) that someone had a socket
>>emulation library available for Coherent 4. I'm trying to port a mud (CI Mud,
>>a smallish disk-based server that is probably feasible under Coherent,
>>networking aside) and I need to be able to replace all the socket code to get
>>it running. I'm assuming that the emulation code will use some other form of
>>IPC, to allow processes to talk to each other on the same machine as if they
>>were using sockets.
>
>You mean Coherent doesn't already *have* sockets?!?  NONE AT ALL?!!?

Since you don't have Coherent, don't worry about it.

>Yikes!  I had *thought* that Coherent was a relatively decent OS until now.
>I can understand not having IP ("net") sockets, but you're gonna have a bad
>time porting anything like a MUD if it won't even do UNIX (filesystem) ones.
                                                      ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
?

>Jeeez...  TinyMUSH, PennMUSH, and DikuMUD compile out-of-the-box under Linux.
>Even LP-MUD compiles without too much twiddling.   ...and Linux is FREE.
>
>How much did you pay for COH?  Is it *refundable*?

What's the support telephone number for Linux?

Why does the extfs eat directories?

Why doesn't lpr work on Linux?

How many iBCS binaries run on Linux?

Why is it so difficult to get Linux to boot directly from a hard disk?

Where can I buy the type set, professionally written manual for Linux?

Go back to comp.os.linux and stop trying to start flame wars.

-- 

Rick Kelly    rmkhome!rmk@merk.com    merk!rmkhome!rmk    rmk@frog.UUCP
From: mfaurot@phzzzt.uucp (Michael Faurot)
Newsgroups: comp.os.coherent
Subject: Re: No more lost packets!!
Date: 11 Jan 93 11:27:23 GMT
Organization: A.T.W.W.
X-Newsreader: Tin 1.1 PL4

magus@drktowr.chi.il.us (Louis Giliberto) writes:
: 
: Speaking of which, anyone who has rebuilt their kernel using the new
: DDK:  have you had any problems with minicom?  It no longer seems
: to work with the new kernel.

I had problems with minicom after converting to r70.  I was able to
get minicom working again by switching from using termio routines to
sgtty ones.  Can't remember exactly what I had to do, but it just
basically means getting it to use the sgtty.h header file over the
termio.h one.
-- 
+--------------------+-------------------------------------------------------+
|   Michael Faurot   | Domain: mfaurot@phzzzt.UUCP		             |
|   ------- ------   | UUCP: ...!{irscscm|mimsy}!bogart!phzzzt!mfaurot       |
+--------------------+--------------------+----------------------------------+
| Fleischman:  Ed, are you hallucinating? |    I wanna go home with the      |
|         Ed:  Oh yeah, but not right now.|  Armadillo . . . --Gary P Nunn   |
+-----------------------------------------+----------------------------------+