From: Bill.Carlson@p0.f18.n104.z1.FIDONET.ORG (Bill Carlson)
Newsgroups: alt.messianic
Subject: Clean And Unclean Under The New Cove
Date: 23 Jul 92 18:41:03 GMT
Organization: FidoNet node 1:104/18.0 - Midrash, Denver CO


 -=> Quoting Tom Albrecht to All <=-
 TA> From: tom@portland.mdc.unisys.com (Tom Albrecht)
 TA> Date: 21 Jul 92 20:54:56 GMT
 TA> Organization: Unisys - Applied Technology
 TA> Message-ID: <1992Jul21.205456.8854@portland.mdc.unisys.com>
 TA> Newsgroups: alt.messianic
 TA> 
 TA> In article <139234.2A672EC0@paranet.FIDONET.ORG>
 TA> Bill.Carlson@p0.f18.n104.z1.FIDONET.ORG (Bill Carlson) writes: >
 >BH> which include it are the Amplified, the New American Standard...
 > 
 >You'll also note that it is given in []'s.  The reason for this; is
 >the entire 1st half of the statement isn't even in the Greek.  ...
 TA> 
 TA> Not in the NASB.  There are no brackets, no marginal comments
      Yes, in the NAS Bible.  I have a copy here at work; and it says:
      (Thus He <-{these two words are in italics} declared all foods
      clean)  The entire phrase is in ()'s in my NAS, and if you'll
      note, the word "declared" is also not in the Greek anywhere.
 TA> happened to be in a Christian bookstore and consulted a number of
 TA> commentaries on Mark.  None of them hinted at questionable text
      Not surprising; most commentaries today have little value anyway.
 TA> As to context, that's quite plain. Jesus said NOTHING going into a
 TA> man can defile him.  Does NOTHING mean nothing?  It would seem to
 TA> in this instance. The text and context is plain.  Food cannot
 TA> defile.
      The context is no food with unwashed hands.  "Nothing" unwashed
      is the context.  Read a harmony account of both versions
      together.  Yeshua was stating that it wasn't anything with
      unwashed hands that they were putting into their mouth that was
      defiling them; it was rather what came out of their heart.
 TA> The reason, according to I Timothy, the Word of God has come and
 TA> "purified" all that God created.  We are no longer to call unclean
 TA> what Almighty God, Jesus Christ, has declared clean.
      Like I said; Yeshua, who said that He came to uphold, NOT ABOLISH
      the Torah, said the least stroke of the Torah would stand till
      heaven and earth disappeared.  He also said to teach them
      concerning ALL that He had commanded unto the Talmidim.  Since
      He declared the "least" Mitzvot of being worthy to be done; your
      words are in contradiction with the Good-News account, and
      invalid.  Please show me where it says: And G-d said, the
      hazer/pig, which I previously said you shall not eat, in the
      commands that I gave you forever and to all generations, I've now
      changed My mind, and it is a good thing for you Jews to eat.
           Can't - of course you can't.  Your commmentaries are an
           exercise in dogmatic gymnastics.
 TA> Objectively speaking, is it sin today for a Jewish believer in Messiah
 TA> Jesus to fail to circumcise his male child on the 8th day?
      I would have him read ACTS 21b; where Ya'akov declares that it was
      a LIE that Sha'ul would say that the Jewish Believers should not be
      circumcising their children, and forsaking Torah; and let him draw
      his own conclusions :-)
 TA> Objectively speaking, is it sin today for a Jewish believer in Messiah
 TA> Jesus to fail to celebrate Yom Kippur?
      Y'shua IS our Yom Kippur.  Why would a Jewish Believer not want
      to celebrate this?
 TA> How should I disciple this convert to Messiah?
      Well; after listening to you over the years; I'd say the best
      advice for him would be for you to council him to turn tail and
      leave your discipleship as soon as possible!

... 012 Am Israel Chai! 210          
--  
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