HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: gdb15@grebe.cl.cam.ac.uk (Guy Barry)
Subject: Re: Americanisms (was Re: Back from the UK
Reply-To: gdb15@cl.cam.ac.uk
Organization: U of Cambridge Computer Lab, UK
Date: Wed, 27 Jan 1993 14:59:38 GMT

In article <1993Jan27.134735.9688@dcs.qmw.ac.uk> mmh@dcs.qmw.ac.uk (Matthew Huntbach) writes:
>
>Where DO they get them from? No-one here is denying that
>America is the greatest, most wonderful, freedom-loving,
>oportunity-giving  etc. etc. motherhood and apple pie etc. etc.
>etc. country in the world, but I am sorry, to the British ear,
>all American accents sound much the same. 

Well, maybe they do to yours, Matthew.  I can certainly tell a New
England accent from a West Coast one, or an accent from the Deep
South.  I'm sure my ear isn't anything like as discriminating as an
American's, but I can at least make broad distinctions.

>By which I mean there
>are certain features which are common to most American accents,
>but only found in some British accents.

And I'm sure an American would say exactly the same thing the
other way round.  Remember Dick van Dyke's accent in "Mary Poppins"?








--
Guy Barry, University of Cambridge | Phone: +44 (0)223 334757 
Computer Laboratory                | Fax: +44 (0)223 334678
New Museums Site, Pembroke Street  | JANET: Guy.Barry@uk.ac.cam.cl 
Cambridge CB2 3QG, England, UK     | Internet: Guy.Barry@cl.cam.ac.uk 
Newsgroups: soc.culture.british
From: alla0008@student.tc.umn.edu (Graham Allan)
Subject: Re: The Poll Tax
Organization: University of Minnesota
Date: Thu, 21 Jan 1993 14:54:58 GMT

In article <1993Jan21.092158.16400@osf.org> david@postman.gr.osf.org (David George) writes:
>
>I am definitely against local income tax, which I believe will leave a load
>of rich tossers living in big houses not paying a bean, or at least their
>fair share because their crafty accountants have salted all their cash away
>somewhere.

You can use this objection against normal income tax as well. Do you think
it should be replaced by something else?
There will always be some people who manage to avoid whatever tax regime
is adopted, but I don't think the number of people who could manage it is
all that high. I think a local income tax would probably be fairest to the
largest number of people. Sales tax also hits lower-income people
disproportionately, as they directly spend more of their income than
better-off people (who can afford to put money aside into saving, pension
schemes, etc).

Graham
From: sue@netcom.com (Sue Miller)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.british
Subject: Re: Dianagate [was Re: Different Newspapers ...]
Date: 22 Jan 93 07:21:38 GMT
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services (408 241-9760 guest)

In article <IDF.93Jan22021648@fat-controller.cs.bham.ac.uk> idf@cs.bham.ac.uk (Ian Fitchet) writes:
>
> On 20 Jan 93, Sue Miller wrote
>> Unfortunately for me, I bear a slight resemblance to Mrs. Wales (big nose, 
>> bluish eyes, blonde hair) and several of my coworkers have taken to calling 
>> me this name...
>
> What, `big nose'?

Didn't you hear me?  Oh, you think that's what they
call me.  I wish.  No, I'm "Squidgy".  Sigh.
From: mmh@dcs.qmw.ac.uk (Matthew Huntbach)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.british
Subject: Re: Charles's DNA tested to prove not illigitimate
Date: 27 Jan 93 10:05:16 GMT
Organization: Computer Science Dept, QMW, University of London, UK.

In article <1993Jan25.211333.15955@ttinews.tti.com> jackson@soldev.tti.com (Dick Jackson) writes:
>Apparently the kings and would-be kings did lead their
>gangs/armies into battle and take the chance of being slit up. Question:
>who was the first English monarch not to lead the English army in person?
>
The last "English" monarch to lead the army into battle was
apparently George II. When and where I have not the faintest
idea, but this is one of those useless facts that "every
schoolboy knows" (doubt they do now).

Matthew Huntbach
From: fledgist@weber.ucsd.edu (Fragano Ledgister)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.british
Subject: Re: Britain and HK
Date: 23 Jan 1993 03:53:43 GMT
Organization: University of California, San Diego
Distribution: world
NNTP-Posting-Host: weber.ucsd.edu

In article <1jp8p2INN1n5@bnsgd245.bnr.co.uk> bocmunro@bnr.co.uk (Bruce Munro) writes:
>>
>>Also, the British Indian Ocean Territory, the British Antarctic
>>Territory, Montserrat, the Turks and Caicos Islands, Pitcairn
>>Island, Ascension and Tristan da Cunha, and a couple of rocks in the
>>Pacific.
>
>You sure about Pitcairn Island? I thought it was administered by New
>Zealand these days. Talking about Pitcairn, who owns Norfolk Island,
>where many of the mutineers descendents ended up, these days?
>
The UK High Commissioner to New Zealand is concurrently Governor of
Pitcairn.  Norfolk Island is, I think, an Australian territory.

-- 
Dawn over the dark sea brings on the sun;                      
She leans across the hilltop: see, the light!
--------------------------------------------------------------------
fledgist@weber.ucsd.edu
From: cstadgs@csv.warwick.ac.uk (Mr R J Tinsley)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.british
Subject: Re: seperate hot and cold water taps in th
Date: 26 Jan 1993 22:35:23 -0000
Organization: Computing Services, University of Warwick, UK
NNTP-Posting-Host: lily.csv.warwick.ac.uk

In article <1993Jan26.172500.2923@adobe.com> cjackson@adobe.com
(Curtis Jackson) writes:
>This is true, if you make the quaint UK-centric assumption that the rest
>of the civilised world is still plumbing with lead rather than copper.

geoff@tyger.East.Sun.COM (Geoff Arnold @ Sun BOS - R.H. coast near the top)
writes:
>A report issued [in the US] a couple of weeks ago points out that the alloys
>used to fabricate taps contain a fairly high proportion of lead.

Need I say more? :-)

-Bob

Just my `hundreds if not thousands of dollars' worth
Xref: sparky soc.culture.british:19266 alt.usage.english:10955
From: epp@mala.bc.ca (Lorne Epp)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.british,alt.usage.english
Subject: Re: Back from the UK
Date: 22 Jan 93 18:24:49 -0700
Organization: Malaspina College

In article <1993Jan22.030456.31470@watson.ibm.com>, yozzo@watson.ibm.com (Ralph Yozzo) writes:
> In article <C184s6.G6J@demon.co.uk> gtoal@pizzabox.demon.co.uk (Graham Toal) writes:
>>In article <1993Jan21.170629.31421@watson.ibm.com> yozzo@watson.ibm.com (Ralph Yozzo) writes:
>>:(or the British "How do you do?") 
>>
>>I trust our American readers are aware that the correct response to 'how do
>>you do.' is another 'how do you you do.'  It's not a question, and anyone
>>who answers 'very well thank you' is immediately marked as beyond the pale.
>>
>>G
> 
> If, indeed, it is not a question, then would it not be simpler to merely
> say "hello"?

But isn't "hello" just a contraction of "how the hell are ya"?

----------------------------------------------------------------------
Lorne Epp                                               epp@mala.bc.ca
Newsgroups: soc.culture.british
From: ambidge@ecf.toronto.edu (Chris Ambidge)
Subject: Re: Postperson Pat. Was Re: Britain and HK
Organization: University of Toronto, Engineering Computing Facility
Date: Wed, 27 Jan 1993 18:45:28 GMT

There's been a fair bit of debate about de-sexing Postman Pat's name:


>>Now *here's* an interesting subject.  My daughter and nephews all
>>love Postman Pat.  The name can't be changed, nothing else will
>>scan.  "Postal Carrier Pat and his black & white cat.."  nah.
>>'Postperson' is an abomination, of course.
>

>When I was about five years old, living in Aldershot, Hants., I
>remember one day I happened to see that a woman was delivering our
>post.  I was somewhat surprised by this, and said that she must be a
>"postlady".
>
>"No", explained my father, "She is a postman.  She may be a female
>postman, but she is a postman."
>
>Since that time, I have always thought that this was the simplest
>solution.
>

In this country, the actual title (they even had a union by this
name) is "Letter Carrier", and that sounds like the  best idea
to me.  Changing "man" to  "person" usually sounds pretty ugly,
and is a sore-thumb self-conspicuous retrofit.

It would, though, never  do to change the name of Postman Pat.
Heck, what would Jess think?  And Mrs Goggins would probably faint
away  -- which would  Not Do.

Chris
-- 
Chris Ambidge / ambidge@ecf.toronto.edu / ambidge@ecf.utoronto.ca  
   chemical engineering / university of toronto
   200 college st / toronto ON / M5S 1A4 // 416 978 3106
From: sue@netcom.com (Sue Miller)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.british
Subject: Re: Robert Burns Dinners
Date: 27 Jan 93 03:50:06 GMT
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services (408 241-9760 guest)

James F. Tims writes:
> [alleged Burns poetry deleted]
>
>There's another one about 2 women talking over a fence trying to decide 
>if a penis was muscle or bone.  Probably WAY too indelicate for this group.

[musingly] Is this possible? 

Not that it'll keep me awake at night (hmmmm), but what was their
decision?

>
>Do you read his ribald stuff in the pubs?  Just curious.  
>

Never.
From: CZ94@MUSICA.MCGILL.CA (CZ94)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.british
Subject: Re: Charles's DNA tested to prove not illigitimate
Date: 26 Jan 93 18:00:10 GMT
Article-I.D.: VM1.26JAN93.14043150.0077
Organization: McGill University

In article <1993Jan26.165403.8687@noose.ecn.purdue.edu> garrod@dynamo.ecn.purdue.edu (David Garrod) writes:
>In article <11821@sun13.scri.fsu.edu>, quelch@ibms7.scri.fsu.edu (Geoffrey Quelch) writes:
>> In article <1993Jan25.211333.15955@ttinews.tti.com> jackson@soldev.tti.com (Dick Jackson) writes:
>> >
>> >Apparently the kings and would-be kings did lead their
>> >gangs/armies into battle and take the chance of being slit up. Question:
>> >who was the first English monarch not to lead the English army in person?
>> >
>> The last King to lead his troops in battle was George II at Dettingen
>> (1743). Of course this isn't a direct answer to the question because
>> presumably some earlier Kings may not have had any battles to lead troops
>> in. My vote therefore goes to George III as the first King not to lead
>> his troops in battle.
>> GEQ
>>
>Since the question was monarch not king, I would vote for Mary I.
>Actually, `though it`s been a while (30 years) since I was in
>school, I can`t actually recall Henry VIII actually doing the
>leading.
>.
I don't imagine Edward V ever led an army in battle, since he was only
13 years old, and was only king for a few months.

Tom Box
CZ94@MUSICA.MCGILL.CA
From: jmunro@wyse.wyse.com (Jim Munro x2497)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.british
Subject: Re: england(quite) ? somewhat : very (was: Back from the UK)
Date: 22 Jan 93 21:41:01 GMT
Organization: Wyse Technologies San Jose, Ca

In article <1993Jan20.092846.638@dcs.qmw.ac.uk> mmh@dcs.qmw.ac.uk (Matthew Huntbach) writes:
>In article <4016@wyse.wyse.com> jmunro@wyse.wyse.com (Jim Munro x2497) writes:
>>
>I don't think the upper classes go round saying they're "Great"
>or "Terrible": it's not a specifically working class thing.

I didn't say they did.

>It is rather that the British have avoided linguistic
>inflation. Most of the time one is neither at death's door, nor
>ecstatically happy, so why use words that suggest one is? The
>fact that we generally use fairly mild phraseology means that
>when we use an emphatic phrase, you can be sure we actually
>mean it.

Avoiding linguistic inflation maybe just fine and dandy. However,
the particular speech peculiarity I refer to is saying 'not bad' when
you mean 'good', 'Not too bad' when you mean 'OK', and 'Not too good'
\when you mean 'Poor'. Why the negatives? This seems to me to be an
excessive under inflation!

> Far from showing a lack of emotions, this means we
>have words left we can use to show when we are really
>emotional. I mean, if everything or everyone is "Great" or
>"Terrible" what words do you have left for things which really
>are exceptionally good, or really are so bad as to inspire
>terror?

Well we can always say 'really great' or 'exceptionaly awful'

Nevertheless, I still theorize that the English habit of lack
of outward enthusiasm originates at least in part, in the good old
class system.

Jim Munro
Newsgroups: soc.culture.british
From: rdavis@convex.com (Ray Davis)
Subject: Re: seperate hot and cold water taps in the UK
Organization: CONVEX Computer Corporation, Richardson, Tx., USA
Date: Mon, 25 Jan 1993 23:53:12 GMT
X-Disclaimer: This message was written by a user at CONVEX Computer
              Corp. The opinions expressed are those of the user and
              not necessarily those of CONVEX.

pi101@cus.cam.ac.uk (P.M. Inman) writes:

>feeble, the need for cold water tanks in the loft) derives from an almost
>paranoid concern to protect the purity of the public water supply from
>back-infection from the domestic site.

Which didn't do much good when I lived in Wimbledon and the water
supply was contaminated with almost microscopic worms.  Then there
was the time when dead mice were stinking up the water tank in the
attic.  My recent trip to London and near Birmingham reminded me
that even in a high-class hotel the water often comes out of the
tap looking a bit brown.

Love it.  B-)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.british
From: geoffl@kells.demon.co.uk (Geoff Landergan)
Subject: Re: The Battle of Maldon 
Distribution: world
Organization: Kells Consultancy
Reply-To: geoffl@kells.demon.co.uk
X-Mailer: Simple NEWS 1.90 (ka9q DIS 1.19)
Date: Thu, 28 Jan 1993 00:48:34 +0000

In article <1993Jan27.201111.1@titan.kingston.ac.uk> gl_a214@titan.kingston.ac.uk writes:

>Hiya - I'm interested in the colonization of Britain in the Dark Ages. I was
>reading about one of the few times that the Anglo - Saxons actually managed to
>repel a Viking raid - the Battle of Maldon in 991AD.

Hmm, I think you'll find that alot of viking raids were repulsed quite
easily (the 'raid' being the viking equivalent of nipping over to the
corner shop for 20 Bensons and a four-pack of lager).

As I understand it, the poem of the battle of Maldon is most useful
as an insight into the more organised levying of feudal troops against
serious enemies (the Normans for example, though the Vikings figure
also) as when *Byrhtnoth* alighted from his horse 'amoung the people
where it pleased him best, where he knew his bodyguard to be most loyal'
though the question of how the elite household troops were supplemented
seems to be a much debated question.

I doubt you'll find any book concentrating on the battle of Maldon, but
for more informed opinions than mine, try:-

DJV Fisher, The Anglo-Saxon Age c400-1042;

Stenton, Anglo-Saxon England;

CW Hollister, Anglo-Saxon Military Institutions on the Eve of the 
              Norman Conquest;

Richardson & Sayles, Governance of Medieval England (ch.3);

John, Orbis Britanniae

-- 
      Geoff Landergan                         geoffl@kells.demon.co.uk
      Mitcham, Surrey, UK
      +44 81 646 2605

Newsgroups: soc.culture.british
From: hiscrp@nuscc.nus.sg (C R Pennell)
Subject: guide dogs
Organization: National University of Singapore
X-Newsreader: Tin 1.1 PL4
Date: Fri, 22 Jan 1993 10:29:18 GMT


If we can break away for the moment from discussing German toilets,
AMerican English, and how to mix Martinis, I have a serious question.

I have a blind student, aged 23, here in Singapore who really wants a
guide dog. There are no guide dogs in Singapore.

Please would someone, over the next few days, pick up a phone, call the
local RNIB office/Guide Dogs for the Blind and aks them how he should
pursue this idea. He would be willing to come to Britian one vacation to
be learn how to manage with the dog, and would look after the transport
and arrangements etc.

I  have no idea if this sort of thing is possible, but it would be nice to
know one way or the other. 

Since it's Chinese New Year, it would be even better if we could have an
answer for him (esp if it's possible) when the university re-opens (which
is Tuesday. Could someone help with this please?

For obvious reasons this is directed at British readers.

Thanks

Gong XI Fa Cai

Richard Pennell, History NUS.


Newsgroups: soc.culture.british
From: bemj1@cl.cam.ac.uk (Bernie Jones)
Subject: Re: Have a nice day!
Followup-To: soc.culture.british
Organization: U of Cambridge Computer Lab, UK
Date: Fri, 22 Jan 1993 15:50:56 GMT

In article <1jnv27INNbis@morrow.stanford.edu>, mossop@pangea.Stanford.EDU
(Antony Mossop) wrote:
> 
> In article <bemj1-210193171027@coxsorangepippin.cl.cam.ac.uk> bemj1@cl.cam.ac.uk (Bernie Jones) writes:
> >My pet hate in this country is when Burger King staff say "You got it"
>
> >Yet it's company policy (no doubt from the US HQ!) and I'm sure the staff
> >don't like it.

> >Maybe some letters to Corporate HQ are in order....
> 
> A short reply:
> Burger King belong to Grand Metropolitan which is an ostensibly
> British combine.
> 

Mea culpa, mea maxima culpa! Yes, they are UK owned (cringe). However,
that doesn't make it any better - I still think letters to HQ are in
order - I do apologise for blaming the poor Americans though - I'm
sure they'd never do anything like this... ;-)

--
Bernie Jones            (0)223-335478             bernie.jones@cl.cam.ac.uk
U of Cambridge Computer Laboratory, Pembroke Street, Cambridge, CB2 3QG, GB
Newsgroups: soc.culture.british
From: R.J.Woolley@lut.ac.uk
Subject: Re: london, england
Reply-To: R.J.Woolley@lut.ac.uk (Robert Woolley)
Organization: Loughborough University, UK.
Distribution: soc
Date: Fri, 22 Jan 93 12:13:22 GMT

In article <C15wpw.HIC@world.std.com> eac@world.std.com (Eric A Cottrell) writes:
>SEveral maps that call this section "CITY". I also noticed that regional
>names seem to be London centered, i.e. The North, The West County, etc.
>73 Eric   eac@world.std.com

As far as I'm aware, the origin of the phrase "The West Country" comes from
when Cornwall and the west were full of Britons, and the rest of the country
contained Anglo-Saxons. Can anyone confirm this?

Rob.

Newsgroups: soc.culture.british,alt.usage.english
From: sue@netcom.com (Sue Miller)
Subject: Re: Back from the UK
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services (408 241-9760 guest)
Date: Thu, 21 Jan 1993 18:08:12 GMT

In article <CAH.93Jan21145806@fat-controller.cs.bham.ac.uk> cah@cs.bham.ac.uk (Ceri Hopkins) writes:
> [...]
>How many British people have noticed that if a couple of people are
>talking in an inordinately loud voice [British definition]..
>
>(i) they're having a heated debate (in which all nationalities appear
>to raise their voice), or (ii) they're American
>
>But of course this doesn't take into account all the Americans who go
>unnoticed because they don't display the characteristics of the
>stereotype, and remain unheard.
>
>In Britain, someone with a consistently loud voice (to our ears) is
>often thought to be an overbearing arsehole with little to say in
>content, who uses volume to gain attention.

I can handle the norm in both countries, because I have a fairly
quiet family.  My other half (English), on the other hand, gets a consistent
rating of "too quiet" at reviews & job interviews.  This is a negative
in Silicon Valley companies, it seems.  There seems to be some connection
in the US between one's personal volume level and how effective hiring managers
think one might be.  ?  Don't quite understand it.  

>
>To start another thread. How anyone can put up with the impersonal
>"Have a nice day" without screaming back "Go f*ck yourself"/"Do you
>know me?"/"Do you really care?", I'll never know.  How can there be
>any sincerity wrapped up in this throwaway expression? Answers
>required to (i) how prevalent this is, (ii) what net-people think
>of the practice? (iii) examples from Britain.

Sincerity?  How much sincerity is in "How are you?"  Do you think the
other person really cares?  In any case, it isn't that prevalent here.
I heard it nearly as often in the UK as here, by the way.  It sounds
even less sincere in the UK, because service there is so BAD!

Newsgroups: soc.culture.british
From: sue@netcom.com (Sue Miller)
Subject: Re: Squidgy? Was: Re: Dianagate [was Re: Different Newspapers ...]
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services (408 241-9760 guest)
Date: Sun, 24 Jan 1993 03:47:59 GMT

In article <C1BxMq.9Dx@dscomsa.desy.de> Hallam@zeus02.desy.de writes:
>In article <1993Jan22.210402.29505@netcom.com>, sue@netcom.com (Sue "Squidgy"
>Miller) writes:
>
>|>In article <C19nAp.Kpy@dscomsa.desy.de> Hallam@zeus02.desy.de writes:
>|>>In article <1993Jan22.072138.2697@netcom.com>, sue@netcom.com (Sue "Squidgy"
>|>>Miller) writes:
>|>>
>|>>|>In article <IDF.93Jan22021648@fat-controller.cs.bham.ac.uk>
>|>idf@cs.bham.ac.uk
>|>>|>(Ian Fitchet) writes:
>|>>|>>
>|>>|>> On 20 Jan 93, Sue Miller wrote
>|>>|>>> Unfortunately for me, I bear a slight resemblance to Mrs. Wales (big
>|>nose,
>|>>|>|>>> bluish eyes, blonde hair) and several of my coworkers have taken to
>|>>|>calling 
>|>>|>>> me this name...
>|>>|>>
>|>>|>> What, `big nose'?
>|>>|>
>|>>|>Didn't you hear me?  Oh, you think that's what they
>|>>|>call me.  I wish.  No, I'm "Squidgy".  Sigh.
>|>>
>|>>Ahh... but how do you do in the toe sucking department?
>|>>
>|>
>|>Not applicable.  You should ask me about whether my eating disorder
>|>is under control.  My sister is a redhead, we could ask HER about
>|>toe sucking, but I doubt she'd be very amused.
>
>Not Applicable! No tootsies! Well I never, is it you or your husband who is
>difficient in the sum of two re the foot department? What calamity brought this
>about? Inquiring minds must know!

I think this conversation has taken a wrong turn somewhere.  Squidgy
wasn't sucking toes, it was her ghastly sister-in-law.  I'm sure
this is true, my real sister-in-law made me get her a copy of the
Mirror last summer (August) when they printed the photos.  A week
or so later there was a fancy dress at the village fair and my niece
and nephew went as the toe sucker and red.  Complete with lawn chair
and bald head 'wig'.  They didn't win, don't think the judges were
too crazy about it!!

>
>I won't mention your eating disorder because I wouldn't want to air such
>delicate matters in public.
>

Would be better than me airing my dinner in public.

Newsgroups: soc.culture.british
From: burke@seachg.uucp (Michael Burke)
Subject: Re: london, england
Reply-To: burke@seachg.UUCP (Michael Burke)
Organization: Sea Change Corporation, Mississauga, Ontario, Canada
Date: Wed, 27 Jan 93 16:57:55 GMT

In article <llp785INNco@news.bbn.com>, rnewman@bbn.com (Ron Newman) writes:
> But what would you do instead?   Many US newspapers are also called
> "Times" or "Observer".   No US newspaper is called "Le Monde" or
> "La Stampa", so people don't feel the need to attach city
> names to these.

Are you sure? I know of the New York Times but is there another US based
newspaper just called the Times?

My understanding is the only newspaper in the world called the Times is in
the UK.
-- 
---
Michael Burke

Sea Change Corporation
6695 Millcreek Drive, Unit 8 
Mississauga, Ontario, Canada L5N 5R8
Tel: 416-542-9484  Fax: 416-542-9479
UUCP: ...!uunet!uunet.ca!seachg!burke
Newsgroups: soc.culture.british
From: geoffl@kells.demon.co.uk (Geoff Landergan)