HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: rtut@troi.cc.rochester.edu (Raymond Tuttle)
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
Subject: Bernstein's Mahler 9 with Berlin - a review
Date: 8 Jan 93 01:06:58 GMT
Organization: University of Rochester (Rochester, NY)

Leonard Bernstein invited Herbert von Karajan to conduct the New York
Philharmonic in 1958, but it would be more than 20 years until
Bernstein was to conduct the Berlin Philharmonic, and then the
invitation came not from Karajan but from the director of the Berliner
Festwochen.  The notes to a new Deutsche Grammophon release
documenting this occasion (435 378, 2 CDs) try to squelch any
suggestions of animosity between the two conductors, but it seems
hard to believe that two giants of the podium with two radically
different social backgrounds and musical philosophies did not feel any
tensions between them. 

Bernstein's two performances, on October 4 and 5 1979, were the only
time he was to conduct the Berlin Philharmonic.  The program contained
a single work: the Symphony No. 9 of Gustav Mahler, a work that
Bernstein had already recorded with the New York Philharmonic, and
one that he would return to in his great cycle of the Mahler symphonies
for DG. 

Early in the first movement, we hear orchestral playing that Karajan
quite clearly never would have countenanced.  Karajan was usually
content to reach truth through beauty, and it is a mark of his greatness
as a conductor that he often succeeded.  Bernstein, on the other hand,
was willing to let a phrase curdle and a rhythm jar, and was not
hesitant about making a home or concert listener's eyebrow rise in
pursuit of a long- term revelation.  The comparison may be facile, but
it is tempting to see Karajan as Tebaldi and Bernstein as Callas.  There
are many ways to communicate and conductors have the right to differ
and still be "right," just as listeners do. 

If you already have the later Bernstein recording of this work, then
there is no reason to replace it with this one, unless you have to have
everything that this conductor ever recorded, in which case you will
not be disappointed, for the performance is a great one. The sound is
more than adequate, and each movement is given a handful of internal
cues, making life easy for musicologists and other score-followers. 
Spread over two discs, 82 minutes is short measure, but do you really
want to hear anything after the end of this symphony?  Well, yes: does
anyone else miss applause on "live" recordings? No matter how quiet an
audience is, they are always there,  like a kind of spectral presence, 
and to edit out their final contribution seems unnatural at best, and
disrespectful to the performers at worst. 




--
****************************************   Raymond S. Tuttle
"Dunkel ist das Leben, ist der Tod,"       University of Rochester
but it's nothing to get depressed about!   (still with his two little 
****************************************   white mice).
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
From: tiger@netcom.com (Tiger Zhao)
Subject: Re: Anyone heard of Huenter Kradaken?
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services  (408 241-9760 guest) 
Date: Sun, 10 Jan 1993 09:35:57 GMT

sowhat@gphs.vuw.ac.nz (Christian Zick) writes:

>In article <1993Jan7.183814.5181@fid.morgan.com>, apter@fid.morgan.com (Steve Apter) writes:
>> Daniel Steven Reinker writes:
>> >I am still interested
>> >in knowing about Kradaken, 
>> 
>> and I'm still sceptical 
>> that a composer by this name 
>> ever existed.
>> 
>> 
>You are right. But it is a spelling mistake only: his first name was "Guenter".

Composer Guenter Kradaken was died in jail Oct 30 1939 as a anti-CSBR political
prisoner. His wife Bernazisida went back to Burma and got re-married with
his brother in law, Fuechiwamish who was a flueist, according to Japanese
the " Contemporay Music Concept " ( 3rd Edition, pp339).

His master piece 'dragon' was completed at Moscow, two month before his
arrest by the authority of USSR. All his work had been confiscated and
burned afterwards. But some of them were already available to the
public at that time. The 'trident' was writen when when he lived at
Jaton Town, Vientna.


tiger

>Christian Zick
>sowhat@gphs.vuw.ac.nz
From: dcc@hpcuhe.cup.hp.com (Don Cameron)
Date: Tue, 12 Jan 1993 20:08:55 GMT
Subject: Re: Re: French Baroque HARPSICHORD Music
Organization: Hewlett Packard, Cupertino
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical

mccomt@aix.rpi.edu (Todd Michel McComb) responds

> The New Grove states that Francois Couperin specifically abstained from
> writing unmeasured pieces

Well, 5 (?) of the 8 preludes in Francois Couperin's _L'Art_de_Toucher_de_
Clavecin_ are unmeasured (sort of).  The preludes are written in normal
notation with bar lines, various note values, etc., but the text states that
they are to be regarded as unmeasured except for the 3 which state otherwise,
and that the use of "normal" notation is merely a convenience to the player.

The style (of the music, not the notation) is sufficiently different from
Louis Couperin's unmeasured preludes (which are much more irregular and
free) that it is difficult to assess the impact of the notation.  It would
be interesting to give some Francois' unmeasured preludes rewritten in Louis'
whole-note notation to some hapless harpischord student and see what resulted.

All 8 preludes appear on Gustav Leonhardt's "Couperin" CD, along with
a D minor suite by Louis Couperin, and other pieces by Francois and
Armand-Louis Couperin, all played on a very nice copy of a 17th century
French harpsichord (does anyone know if this is a copy of the 1680 Vaudry?).
Highly recommended.

> because he did not have confidence in his ability
> for the genre.  I do not recall the exact citation, but it is rather
> interesting that the unmeasured genre fell out of favor due to a lack of
> confidence rather than a lack of interest.

There's also the question of the composer's lack of confidence in the
players, rather than him/herself.  J.H Danglebert's autographs of his
preludes were written in Louis Couperin-style whole note notation.
In his later book of harpsichord pieces, the same preludes, although still
without bar lines, were rendered with various note values (i.e., not all whole
notes), suggesting that students might have found the earlier notation
too difficult.

Don Cameron	"my other car is a harpsichord"
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
From: mccomt@aix.rpi.edu (Todd Michel McComb)
Subject: Cabezon review (was: Spanish organ music)
Organization: Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute, Troy, NY
Date: Tue, 12 Jan 1993 18:15:39 GMT

In article <25#3y0j@rpi.edu> I write:
>[Valois series: The Historic Spanish Organ]

>The first volume of the ten is devoted to Antonio de Cabezon (who was the
>subject of my original query some time ago) and performed by Kimberly
>Marshall on three historic spanish organs.  I found this in the "misc organ"
>bin at Tower yesterday.  The production is top quality (which looks to be
>true of the series in general) and presents an interesting cross-section
>of music.  Valois 4645 (the remaining nine in sequence, titles on request).
>Recommended.

Another note concerning my interest in this disc....

Antonio de Cabezon (1510-1566) is considered the earliest important composer
of keyboard music, and his works are among the earliest such music to be
preserved.  He is also known as the "father" of variation form.

In particular, the extended Tiento de Tercer Tono on this disc is a
masterful example of contrapuntal variation.  His thematic material is no
less interesting.

T. M. McComb

Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
From: jfl@panix.com (Jeff Lipton)
Subject: Re: Historical Fidelio recordings
Organization: Panix Public Access Internet & Unix, NYC
Date: Wed, 6 Jan 1993 00:40:33 GMT

In article <1992Dec30.193854.29856@news.acns.nwu.edu> ssc@nwu.edu (Steven Chung) writes:
>
>While at Tower the other day, after finding that Karajan's EMI recording is
>apparently out of print, I came across an import-label recording by Erich
>Kleiber, with Birgit Nilsson in the title role.  Anyone know anything about
>this set (it was from 1955, I think, and was coupled with Beethoven's 5th)?
>
>Also, I saw a CD rerelease of Furtwaengler's 1950 Salzburg bootleg with
>Flagstad.  Are the sonics as truly horrible as on the LPs?  How about
>Furtwaengler's recording with Matha Moedl (soon to be released by EMI), how
>is this?
>
>And finally, are there any Lehmann recordings out there (of Fidelio I
>mean)?
>
>Thanks for any help.


I taped that 1950 Flagstad/Furtwangler Fidelio from the (Nuova Era?) CDs
a few months ago - the sound is clean and adequate, and the performance is
very gripping. There exists a fragment of Lehmann in Fidelio  - from the
1936 Salzburg Festival with Toscanini - it goes through "Aubscheulicher" -
and the sound is truly awful. It did not survive on Selenophone transcripts
as did the other operas performed the following summer.
All in all, you can't go wrong with the Klemperer (EMI) Fidelio. If you
can find it, look for the 1940 Flagstad/Walter recording from the Met-
the MET issued it a few years back, and a friend got a British pirate for
me some time ago. Very exciting.

 - Jeff

-- 
+----------------------------------------------------------------------------+
| Jeffrey F. Lipton, M.D. (jfl@panix.com) |   (212)-982-1219 (home)          |
| 353 E. 17th, #19-E  NY, NY 10003        | "Disobedience was Man's First    |
+------------------------------------------------ Virtue" (Oscar Wilde) -----+
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
From: chrisi@lloyd.Camex.COM (Chris Ischay)
Subject: Re: Live Performances (was: Re: Beginning a classical collection)
Organization: Camex Inc., Boston MA
Date: Wed, 06 Jan 1993 23:05:59 EST

In article <Dec.30.01.14.07.1992.15387@pilot.njin.net>
rhutchin@pilot.njin.net (Roland Hutchinson) writes:

>>>But no one has yet mentioned one seemingly obvious thing to do: go to
>>>some concerts!

In article <1993Jan2.010949.22900@noose.ecn.purdue.edu>
lungtt@gus.ecn.purdue.edu (Terence T. Lung) replies:

>>Wow!  I don't think so unless you know what you're doing.
>>Do you have $$$ to spare for this?  Yes.  Live performances
>>add the extra dimension of participation--audience-performer
>>feedback and can, by all-means be an awesome experience and
>>worth just about any $$$.  But if you don't know what you're
>>doing, it'll drain more than your wallet.

In article <1133@dscatl.UUCP> mgresham@dscatl.UUCP (Mark Gresham) writes:

>Now you've touched a live wire!
>To say, "Don't attend live performances" because you aren't
>sure about what's out there is just plain STUPID.

[most of Mark's well-put impassioned response deleted]

Not all concerts cost a lot of money.  Many are free or cost very little,
and while you won't necessarily always get the top-billed stars, you are
likely to share an intimate and satisfying experience with an enthusiastic
and knowledgeable audience.  Universities and music schools put on
concerts, for example.  Museums put on concert series.  City programs,
churches, chamber groups from local symphonies.  There's a lot going on out
there, and I've been to many performances for less than $10.

You might also consider getting the cheapest seats to events that you'd
think very expensive.  Sometimes the cheap seats are very very cheap, and
there's often the opportunity to move to better seats once you're there.

As far as the statement about not knowing what you're doing, I mean, that's
the point, right?

Chris Ischay
chrisi@camex.com
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
From: apter@fid.morgan.com (Steve Apter)
Subject: Re: Ravel
Organization: Morgan Stanley & Co., New York, NY
Distribution: na
Date: Wed, 6 Jan 1993 19:58:08 GMT

In article <C0G2C2.H7o@usenet.ucs.indiana.edu> smitra@bronze.ucs.indiana.edu (Sami Mitra) writes:
>Someone suggested some piano music of Ravel's played by
>Alicia de laRocha(sp?). For a further exposure to Ravel's
>brilliance I suggest his "Gaspard de la Nuit", especially
>as played by Ivo Pogorelich. Simply awesome!
>


Pogorelich is exciting, but Paik makes you believe that 
Hell is cold, cold place.


>
>Sami Mitra
From: ucap22w@ucl.ac.uk (Martin S T Watts)
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
Subject: Re: Bruckner
Date: 6 Jan 93 12:15:01 GMT
Organization: Bloomsbury Computing Consortium


mvalinis@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (Michael J Valinis) writes:

>Since my posting on Bruckner a few days ago, there have been a few direct and 
>indirect replies, so I thought that a restatement, or perhaps clarification, of
>my position might be in order.

>First of all, I did not say that I hated Bruckner or that he was a bad 
>composer.  Actually< I believe that he was quite competant at what he was 
>trying to do.... it's just not for me.  The carrying of Romanticism to its
>logical extreme (not necessarily a pejorative term) is simply not something
>that would appeal to a person who prefers more compact, formal architectures in
>music.  

It seems rather strange to try to apply logic to Romanticism, but I'd have
thought that if Romanticism in music did have such an extreme it would be found
in the works of maybe Mahler, Wagner or Strauss rather than Bruckner. Bruckner's
works are certainly far from compact, but in many ways, not least in his
approach to form, he seems to me to demonstrate a rather classical mentality.
Look at most of his scherzo movements, for example. I certainly don't see any
lack of form in his works.

>For the people out there who wax ecstatic over B's works, I am glad
>that you have found music that causes such paroxysms of delight.  I simply find
>mine elsewhere.  Oh, BTW, this is not an uninformed or unreasoned opinion on my
>part.... contrary to the implication in one reply, I have listened to all of
>Bruckner's major works.  The result was a reinforcement of my feelings.

Well, I only know his 7th and 8th Symphonies in any sort of detail, so I
obviously don't have the breadth of knowledge that you do, but I've certainly
found perseverance necessary for an appreciation of his music, and ultimately
very worthwhile. Do you not find it intriguing that while nearly everybody is
prepared to admit Bruckner's shortcomings, people still go on listening to his
music? Surely there must be something in it.

Cheers,
Martin Watts.
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
From: adolphso@mizar.usc.edu (adolphson)
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
Subject: Re: Recommend CD of Strauss's Salome
Date: 12 Jan 1993 17:32:48 -0800
Organization: University of Southern California, Los Angeles, CA
NNTP-Posting-Host: mizar.usc.edu

In article <C0qx76.4u1@news.udel.edu> 
conrad@brahms.udel.edu (Jon Conrad) writes:

> I hear exciting things about an early radio
> broadcast by Ljuba Welitsch from the Met (not the later one reissued by
> the Met Guild, for which she was in vocal trouble).

Ljuba Welitsch is *unbelievable* on that broadcast.  It was
difficult to enough to find on LP, and so far as I know doesn't
exist on CD.  A pity.

By the way, Jon, I hear through the grapevine that John
Steane is updating _The Grand Tradition_ for a 1994 (I think)
new edition.

Arne

Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
From: apter@fid.morgan.com (Steve Apter)
Subject: Re: There's nothing wrong with Bolero
Organization: Morgan Stanley & Co., New York, NY
Date: Mon, 11 Jan 1993 23:04:33 GMT

In article <3940066@hpcc01.corp.hp.com> zornow@hpcc01.corp.hp.com (Claudia Zornow) writes:
>dbrooks@osf.org (David Brooks) writes (re Bolero):
>
>> Ahem.  The placement of the trombone and saxophone solos causes an
>> unwelcome (to these ears) interruption in the monotonic increase of
>> tension.
>
>Well, some people feel more tension when listening to a saxophone solo
>than others do.  :-)
>
>> The requirement for three extra percussionists in the last 6 measures
>> (OK, I admit it, bassdrum/tamtam/cymbal can be handled by one player) is
>> a logistical pain.
>> ...
>> Snare-drummers have a dislike for the feeling in the wrists after 17
>> minutes.  That's if they haven't suffered muscle spasm and dropped the
>> sticks by then.
>
>Is Bolero ever performed with multiple snare drum players trading off,
>or is that considered undrummerly?  That would at least give the three 
>extra percussionists something to do.
>
>Claudia



I remember reading that Victor de Sabata asked the members of his orchestra
to shout in unison throug the final stretches of this work.  Apparently
Ravel, who regarded de Sabata as the best interpreter of his music, approved.
Although de Sabata's recording (with the NY Philharmonic, if memory serves) 
is splendid in other respects, it does not contain this modification.




Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
From: b-grant@nwu.edu (Barry Grant)
Subject: When did Ives stop composing?
Followup-To: rec.music.classical
Organization: Northwestern University
Date: Mon, 4 Jan 1993 18:40:59 GMT

I was speaking with someone from our music school who said he though Ives
stopped composing music at age 29. This doesn't seem right to me. Does
anyone know the facts?


Barry Grant
Northwestern Univesity
Evanston, Illinois
b-grant@nwu.edu
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical.guitar
From: jdalin@devildog.att.com (Jimmy Dalin)
Subject: Re: Vaseline Nail Hardener
Organization: AT&T IMS - Piscataway, NJ (USA)
Date: Thu, 7 Jan 1993 19:20:04 GMT

In article <15362.2b4c0c77@ohstpy.mps.ohio-state.edu> egras@ohstpy.mps.ohio-state.edu writes:
>
>
>	There is a new product put out by Vaseline which may be of interest
>to classical guitarists.  It is a hand lotion which is GUARANTEED to harden
>fingernails by 30%.  I have not tried this out yet, but I inteed to purchase
>it soon.
>
>BrianE

Is that using standard Rockwell B or C measurements?
-- 
Jim Dalin            "No Salga Afuera"  
AT&T                    N.Y.C.T.A.
ATTMail id: !jdalin            
Compuserve: 72260,1573
From: pablo@jhunix.hcf.jhu.edu (Pablo A Iglesias)
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical.guitar
Subject: Catalan Fold Songs .
Date: 10 Jan 93 17:54:09 GMT
Organization: Homewood Academic Computing, Johns Hopkins University, Baltimore, Md, USA
NNTP-Posting-Host: jhunix.hcf.jhu.edu


Hi,

I 've got a CD by John Williams on Spanish Guitar music which includes
some traditional Catalan folk songs transcribed for guitar.  I'd really
love to find the sheet music for some of these.  Unfortunately the library
at the Peabody institute which I have access to does not have any.  Could
anyone point me to books which might include these pieces; the university
library will special order them for me.  I believe that the pieces were
transcribed by LLoret (or similar).

Any help would be greatly appreciated.

Pablo Iglesias

-- 
Pablo
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical.guitar
From: slei@boa.cis.ohio-state.edu (shih liang lei)
Subject: test
Organization: The Ohio State University Dept. of Computer and Info. Science
Date: Mon, 11 Jan 1993 15:33:47 GMT

This is a test. Sorry.
From: urain@mcl.ucsb.edu (Lawrence of Arabia)
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical.guitar
Subject: Complete Solo Guitar Works - PAGANINI
Keywords: Paganini - guitar
Date: 13 Jan 93 02:41:38 GMT
uath: mc

hiya, I was wondering if anyone has the recordings for "Complete
Solo Guitar Works for Paganini" ???  I have the 3 volume books that
are for it, and contain sheet music for all of the recordings!! If
anyone has them, I would LOVE to trade you the sheet music for the
recordings.   

Thanks..  

Newsgroups: rec.music.classical.guitar
From: quigley@acs.ucalgary.ca (Martyn Thomas Quigley)
Subject: Re: Catalan Fold Songs .
Date: Tue, 12 Jan 93 04:03:50 GMT
Organization: The University of Calgary, Alberta

pablo@jhunix.hcf.jhu.edu (Pablo A Iglesias) writes:
>I 've got a CD by John Williams on Spanish Guitar music which includes
>some traditional Catalan folk songs transcribed for guitar.  I'd really
>love to find the sheet music for some of these.  Unfortunately the library
>at the Peabody institute which I have access to does not have any.  Could
>anyone point me to books which might include these pieces; the university
>library will special order them for me.  I believe that the pieces were
>transcribed by LLoret (or similar).

Get your library to look for "Diez Canciones Populares Catalanas" versiones
para guitarra sola por Miguel LLobet, Union Musical Espanola #20372.  It's
a classic.

Mart
Organization: University of Maine System
Date: Tuesday, 12 Jan 1993 20:13:30 EST
From: <IO21145@MAINE.MAINE.EDU>
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical.guitar
Subject: dampness!!!??

I just purchased a guitar that is constructed of all South American
woods.. and with the dryness associated with the winter months here
in Maine (as will all those cold regions away from the equator!) I've
realized the need to keep the instrument "humidified". Now my instruc-
tor thinks a damp sponge in a open plastic bag will suffice, while the
guys in the local guitar store suggest a device that can be placed in
the sound hole. I guess it is some sort of sponge covered with a sheath
that ensures the unfinished surfaces inside the guitar will have enough
water to "drink". I was just looking for any comments on such devices
(and the sponges) and suggestions from any other concerned guitarists!

Seth(werty)
From: desilva@argon.gas.uug.arizona.edu (Sirilath J DeSilva)
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical.guitar
Subject: Guitar Prices
Keywords: Classical Guitar
Date: 7 Jan 93 18:30:50 GMT
Organization: University of Arizona, Tucson

I have been presented with an oppertunity of buying an old (about 20 years)
 Yarri Classical guitar. It has undergone a small repair ( a crack in the 
back due to low humidity) and apart from that it looks good and tone is 
sharp and loud with good quality. As I have no idea about its value 
I would like to get some information about its value and other helpful
comments before I make a decision about making an offer. Thanks in 
advance.
Sirilath.
From: clopton5107@iscsvax.uni.edu
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical.guitar
Subject: QUESTIONS about history/more
Date: 11 Jan 93 19:49:30 -0600
Organization: University of Northern Iowa

        I have a few simple questions.  Please mail answers back to me, because
I never read this group.
        Did the instrumant we call the guitar originate in Spain?
        How old is the guitar compaired to the Cello?
        Which came first--the guitar with f-holes, or the guitar with a round
center hole?
        When were guitars first strung with metal strings?
        Are gut strings brighter than nylon strings?
        Do classical guiratists use alternate tuinings (alternate meaning
anything other than EADGBE)
        Do classical guitarists take the notion of extra strings (more than
six) seriously, or are seven and ten string classical guitars primarily for
experimantal purposes?


        Thank you.
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical.guitar
From: dbl10@cunixb.cc.columbia.edu (Dominic B LoTempio)
Subject: Re: Tab to Vivaldi's Concerti
Reply-To: dbl10@cunixb.cc.columbia.edu (Dominic B LoTempio)
Organization: Columbia University
Date: Tue, 12 Jan 1993 19:48:57 GMT



	I have a better question: why doesn't there exist a music notation
program that can display tablature???

	Sure, its great how people manually type up transscription on the
other guitar subs, but wouldn't it be great if you could just post a
UUencoded data file for a program such as Finale or Encore but that could
display tab???

	This has bothered me so badly that I am thinking of writing a
small program that can read .MID files and extract the notes into tablature.
From: easteee@wkuvx1.bitnet
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical.guitar
Subject: Tab to Vivaldi's Concerti
Date: 12 Jan 93 08:54:30 CST
Organization: Western Kentucky University, Bowling Green, KY

I have a question.

Why is there never any classical music transcribed in here??!
 
______ __   ___  ___           o  __   ___  |    Western  Kentucky    |
  /   /__) /__  /__  /     )  /  /__) /__   |       University        |
 /   /  \ (___ (___ (__/__/  /  /  \ (___   |  EASTEEE@WKUVX1.BITNET  |
From: x89olarte1@gw.wmich.edu
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical.guitar
Subject: Segovia collection.
Date: 8 Jan 93 13:34:44 EST
Organization: Western Michigan University

I've got 6 of the Segovia CD collection. Does anyone know the reference
number of all the series so i can order the remaining ones??


Thanks

please E-mail

enrique