From: bell@beethoven.cs.unc.edu (Andrew Bell)
Newsgroups: rec.games.design
Subject: Re: net.rpg
Date: 9 Nov 92 21:05:21 GMT
Article-I.D.: borg.17346
Organization: The University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill

In article <1di5v4INNggc@charnel.ecst.csuchico.edu> tdunn@ecst.csuchico.edu (Tim Dunn) writes:
>Q2.  Should our system be skill-based or class-based?

>A2.  The answer seems to be that we should be skill-based.  Some of us
>have voiced favor for a career-type skill packaginig system, though,
>which might be a good compromise between skill-based and class-based.

Wel, there's two issues here.  First, how should abilities be characterized.
Other than AD&D, just about every system uses a skill system.  And everything
else said here looks like a uniform skills system is the preferable approach.

The real issue touched on here is how should we determine what skills a
character gets, with the choice being a point allocation-style system or
a character history (career) system, with possibilities of a mix between
those two.

Sorry to be pedantic, but it does avoid confusion down the road.


>Q5.  Okay.  What does the game mechanic look like?

>Each system does seem to work on the attribute (dexterity, for
>example) plus skill (melee weapons, for example) equals your
>character's modification to the die roll.

One system I liked was Ysgarth's, I believe, where a character's skill
has three components, which are something like:  talent (based on
attributes), practice (based on time spent practicing), and essential
knowledge.  The latter was particularly important for things like lore
skills.  Either you know something or you don't, so for a lore skill
it was the essential knowledge that was the determining factor.  Likewise,
either you know how to open a lock, or you're very unlikely to be able
to do it.  If you know and have the right tools, for a standard door lock
it takes five seconds to open it, and you will almost certainly open it.
In contrast, Michael Jordan knows how to shoot a three-pointer, but still
only hits about 1 in 3.  Likewise, the best golfer in the world rarely
hits a hole-in-one.

>Q12. Character II:  How do I improve as a character?

>A12. This is shaping up to be a big battle:

>*  Experience Point systems don't work.  They reward the wrong things,

Depends on how points are awarded, doesn't it?  My own suggestion is
to dole out "experience" for time played, with minor bonuses for the
particular skills used.  The rest of the experience is a bonus to
training, with the rationalization that being in life-or-death situations
gives one an incentive to study/practice harder...

>*  If we don't give out EPs, how will characters change over the
>years?

I don't agree that characters necessarily need to change via large
improvements in their skills;  Traveller seems to do just fine with
no advancement.  There needs to be some sort of rewards for adventuring,
but if the reward is largely getting better at skills, then that can
dominate the reason for going on a particular adventure.  As a player,
I'd rather not have that as an incentive.  Others might differ, so it
might be good to have different systems for different world views.

>Seriously, a potential pitfall of this project is nothing will get
>decided because things never reach a decision-making stage.  I think
>it might be best to have some people making the decisions once a
>subject has reached critical mass.

Remember you don't have to make a single decision about everything.
The things that really need to be decided are the set of attributes,
their typical ranges, and how skills are characterized (is a 4 in
a skill very good or 4% chance of success).  A variety of character
generation, skill resolution, combat, and experience systems can be
built on top of a single attribute and skill system, and that's
probably the best way to satisfy the most people.  We just need to
make sure the different systems result in fairly comparable results.
A weakness of a lot of optional systems is that they change game
balance significantly (like the kits in "The Complete <X>'s Handbook"
for AD&DV2, or various things in Rolemaster), so that's something to
avoid.

   -Andrew Bell
bell@cs.unc.edu