HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: lavaughn@eos.ncsu.edu (LAWRENCE ANTHONY VAUGHN)
Newsgroups: soc.religion.christian
Subject: Re: Our Daily Bread
Date: 19 Nov 92 07:36:51 GMT
Reply-To: lavaughn@eos.ncsu.edu (LAWRENCE ANTHONY VAUGHN)
Organization: North Carolina State University, Project Eos

Hi, Cho.  Just happen to have a copy of the Daily Bread in my bag right here.
I get it in the mail monthly at no cost.  It's published by 

Radio Bible Class
Grand Rapids, MI  49555-0001

Sorry I don't have the phone number, but this should be sufficient to obtain it from information.
From: ppxpmd@unicorn.nott.ac.uk (P.Debenham)
Newsgroups: soc.religion.christian
Subject: Re: God is dead said nitzche
Date: 22 Nov 92 22:42:00 GMT
Organization: Cripps Computing Centre, University of Nottingham

When people are looking at trying to PROVE the existance of God, the following
attributed to G.K Chesterton (feel free to correct on this) comes to mind.
  "The only reason to have an open mind on a subject is so you are able to
   close it on the truth"

Or slightly less intelectually from the singer Steve Taylor
  "You are so open minded your brain leaked out"

PETER
From: mkkuhner@phylo.genetics.washington.edu (Mary K. Kuhner)
Newsgroups: soc.religion.christian
Subject: Re: Liberal/New Age Religion (Was: Santeria and animal-sacrifice)
Date: 18 Nov 92 09:15:45 GMT
Organization: University of Washington, Seattle

Peter Farrell (ptfarre@afterlife.ncsc.mil) writes:

>I unabashedly say to those who would prefer to return to the pagan rites
>and value systems of the occultic to go somewhere else. I AM for barring
>them even though the Constitution seems to protect them because over and
>above the Constitution also sits the law of common sense and above that
>Divine law itself. 

I will return to the question which Jeff Stehman posed a few weeks ago:

Suppose that I stand before you, a convicted pagan, and you strip me of
my job, my home, my rights under the law, the company of my family and 
friends, and send me into exile in a foreign country because of my faith--

Do you have any chance of sharing the Good News of Jesus with me?

Do you have any chance of convincing me that you serve the One who said
"But I tell you, you should love your enemies and do good to those who
persecute you"?

I don't think so.  You will not bring very many people to the God of
Love if you use the methods of hatred.

Mary Kuhner mkkuhner@genetics.washington.edu
From: Richter@lrz.lrz-muenchen.dbp.de (Helmut Richter)
Newsgroups: soc.religion.christian
Subject: Re: Jesus, not dogma
Date: 22 Nov 92 22:40:07 GMT
Reply-To: Richter@lrz.lrz-muenchen.dbp.de
Organization: Leibniz-Rechenzentrum, Muenchen (Germany)

dabbott@augean.eleceng.adelaide.edu.au (Derek Abbott) writes:

>In article <Nov.17.02.59.20.1992.25966@geneva.rutgers.edu> tebert@utdallas.edu (Tim Ebert) writes:
>>I must admit I am rather disappointed in this group.
>>(Perhaps there is another group, but I don't think so..)
>>
>>I don't want to hear arguments/discussions about dogma:
>>I want to hear about Jesus.  I want to hear people talk
>>about how God has become REAL for them in their lives.

>I've felt that at times too. I wonder if it would be a
>good idea to create a soc.religion.christian.theology group
>for intellectual stuff, and then keep this group for
>experiential & spiritual stuff?

>Anyone second the motion?

>[Moderator's comment deleted]

I beg to differ. I enjoyed the mixture of theological and more 
personal stuff as we had it in the past. Everybody could pick
what he ("she" is always included without further notice) considers
appropriate, and there was always a chance that someone might
discover that his way of treating his faith so exclusively intellectually
or so exclusively non-intellectually might be inadequate.

I agree with Tim and Derek that spiritual life must have precedence
over intellectual reflection. But I disagree if they imply that
the "spriritual" people must be shielded off the theological stuff
by separating newsgroups. On the contrary, the two "interest groups"
are in dire need of each other's correction (yes: bi-directional!).

If anyone feels that spiritual experience has too little room here,
he is free to post about his spiritual experience and to solicit
discussion. The character of each newsgroup is formed by the people
who post in it.

Regards,
Helmut
From: msh9848@hertz.njit.edu (-Unknown-)
Newsgroups: soc.religion.christian
Subject: There is no god
Date: 18 Nov 92 06:23:06 GMT
Organization: New Jersey Institute of Technology, Newark, N.J.

This is a challenge to Xtians out here. Convince me to believe in Xtianity 
without quoting the bible. If you prefer , do it by email. 

I do not believe that "god" gave man the bible nor do I believe in
god, heaven or hell. Also I can not be convinced using hell fire and
brimstone fear tactics.

Matt Harelick
 
[My first inclination was not to post this message.  Not long ago we
finished a long discussion about proofs of the existence of God, the
problem of evil, etc.  I try to steer a middle course between not
allowing atheists to speak and having a posting like this every couple
of days.  However I'd like to have an FAQ to hand people when I reject
a posting, and at the moment I don't.  While many postings of this
sort are probably more incitements to flame than requests for
information (a characteristic not limited to our atheist posters, by
the way), I still think it makes sense to have a document in the
archives that deals with some of these issues.  I'd appreciate it if
people would like to contribute something, either as postings or as
email to me for inclusion in an FAQ.  --clh]
From: ceb@dbrus.unify.com (Caroline E. Bryan)
Newsgroups: soc.religion.christian
Subject: Re: Messiah Soon?
Date: 22 Nov 92 23:08:34 GMT
Organization: /usr/lib/news/organization

In article <Nov.17.03.28.54.1992.26413@geneva.rutgers.edu> xxbrent@convx1.lerc.nasa.gov (Brent Anderson) writes:
>
> I have some questions on the subject of the return of Christ:  Do most
> Christians believe that we are living in the "End Times"?  What are the
> signs of the "End Times"?  (Bible quotes, if possible)  What are some com-
> mon interpretations of these verses?  Where does the term "Rapture" origin-
> ate, and what does it mean?  How will people recognize Christ when He re-
> turns?  What is the purpose of His returning?
>
> I would appreciate seeing various opinions posted on this subject.  I have
> been told different things by some of my Christian friends and relatives,
> and I would like to try to get a fuller picture of people's beliefs.
> Thanks in advance.

*I* believe that the Rapture is not supported scripturally.  *I* believe that
no one shall know the day nor the hour, not even Christ Himself, but only His
Father in heaven.  I believe that the question "When were You hungry, that we
did not feed you, and when did You thirst, that we did not give You to
drink?" is so much more important than when will Christ return to Earth (if
Christ will manifest Himself physically to literally return to the physical
Earth, that is, and the whole thing isn't an analogy like other parts of the
Bible), that the latter question is not worth spending time on.

The attitude "what's the deadline, so we can party now and get ready later"
is promoted by attempts to second-guess God (which Jesus Himself disapproved
of).  Jesus said we should *always* be ready.  If you want to prepare for
His return, be ready now, and be ready in 5 minutes, and be ready for next
week, and be ready for 43.592 years from now.


Carrie		ceb@rechenau.unify.com	x6244
+-----------------------------------------------------------------------------+
|    For every vision there is an equal and opposite revision.   -- Anon.     |
+-----------------------------------------------------------------------------+

[The usual intent of people preaching about the end-times is not to
allow partying in the interim, but to help people understand that they
need to be ready.  Most typically, end-time preaching does not set an
actual date.  It simply says:  See all the signs that look similar to
those described in the Bible.  It's coming soon.  Be ready.  --clh]
From: phoenix@cwis.unomaha.edu (Shannon Chris Saltzman)
Newsgroups: soc.religion.christian
Subject: God is dead said nitzche
Date: 19 Nov 92 07:15:01 GMT
Organization: University of Nebraska at Omaha

"God is dead!!"proclaimed Nitzche proudly!!  Nitzche is now dead.In
more ways than one.  "Nitzche is dead!!" But God would not be happy
saying that.  Prove God exists! I have heard this challenge so many
times.  A loving God wouldnt send people to Hell.I agree.  People are
not sent, they go willingly. "They what?!!" the person would say. I
would repeat myself and explain.  Only those who dont want to be with
God will not be(As salvation is a choice to accept or reject) Prove
God exists! It is repeated again.  But I musnt use scripture because
whoever doesnt believe in God wont believe in a Book,Amen?  So I can
only point to the difference he has made in peoples lives.  "Positive
thinking and a good dose of niavity!!"they would say.  I can not prove
anything to anyone who isnt willing to open their minds to the
possibilty. I cant even prove I exist to someone who wont believe it!!
I can however one again point to the difference Jesus has made in the
lives of millions. There is tragedy that just cant be solved with
positive thinking.  I can not change lives by telling someone who
believes there is no hope to just think positive. But if I explain to
them that Gods love for them is infinite and unconditional, there is
no question that if they give Jesus a chance he will transform their
lives forever.  Thats the only proof I have.

-- 
From the coffee table of MR SHANNON SALTZMAN
"Is doggie heavan kitty hell?"
     Stephanie Phoenix(age 6)
This in everyway represents the authors opinion!!!(take it if ya want)
From: jmoon@cco.caltech.edu (Jong H. Moon)
Newsgroups: soc.religion.christian
Subject: Re: Is heaven really desirable?
Date: 17 Nov 92 08:05:26 GMT
Organization: California Institute of Technology, Pasadena

Christ...There's been a lot of this nonsense on what heaven is like recently
in this newsgroup.  Who the hell cares???  If I were a Christian, I think
REALLY knowing that there is a God out there who cares for me would be reward
enough.  Really being able to believe that a completely innocent man died to
give us hope for salvation is a lot more interesting than (as a recent post
suggested) visiting quasars or black holes or whatever.

I know that a lot of you feel pretty secure, _knowing_ you are going to
heaven, so you can sit around and speculate on what it'll be like _when_
you get there; but there seem to be much better ways to glorify God than
concentrating on what you're getting from Santa Claus, rather than on being
good so you'll be sure to get anything at all.

Not as bitter as I might sound,

Jong
From: tcchao@undergrad.math.waterloo.edu (T.C. Chao)
Newsgroups: soc.religion.christian
Subject: Re: Better than Daily Bread
Date: 23 Nov 92 01:58:46 GMT
Organization: University of Waterloo

In article <Nov.19.02.18.53.1992.1084@geneva.rutgers.edu> cho@wdl1.wdl.loral.com (Il Hyung Cho) writes:
>Actually, does anyone have any other recommendations
>regarding devotional guides for Youth & College/Young Adult
>Certain guides like the DB and the Upper Room is very
>hard to relate or they discuss things like marriage, family,
>etc that I cannot currently relate to.   Any and all feedback
>is welcomed.

Try Campus Journal, by R.B.C. (same publisher as DB).
Write to: Radio Bible Class, Grand Rapids, Michigan 49555-0001


-- 
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------T.C.Chao                                                                        Addresses: 450 Hazel Street, Waterloo, Ontario, N2L 3P9, CANADA                            232 York Mills Road, Willowdale, Ontario, M2L 1L1 CANADA             Voice: (519) 746 0633
Emails:  tcchao@descartes.uwaterloo.ca                                                   tcchao@m-net.an.arbor.mi.us                                                     an819@freenet-in-a.cwru.edu                                                     73750.315@compuserve.com                                                        tsunco@192.67.241.11                                                            tchao@nyx.cs.du.edu                                                    -------------------------------



-------------------------------------------------
From: caw@gtech.com (Christopher A. White)
Newsgroups: soc.religion.christian
Subject: Re: Ends justify the means?
Date: 17 Nov 92 08:28:29 GMT
Organization: GTECH Corporation, West Greenwich, RI

[interesting heaven/hell discussion deleted]

This is just a tangetical thought (or maybe not). I have often asked 
people the question: "If you got nothing from serving Christ; no power,
no peace, no wisdom, no love; if you still went to hell (which you
still deserve); if you go *nothing* of benefit from serving Christ, 
would you?" 

Whether they answer yes or no is not nearly as telling as why. Now,
(here is where this hooks in) people begin to wonder if they are only
serving God to escape hell. If the only reason you want to serve Christ
is to escape hell, who are you really serving?

Just a question ...



Topher
-- 
 Christopher A. White                    | 
 caw@gtech.com                           | Free will is largely overrated. 
 GTech Corporation, West Greenwich, RI   | 
 The opinions expressed are mine alone   |           - Topher
From: moy@acf3.nyu.edu (Gloria J. Moy,N.DORM C3,(212)9983456,)
Newsgroups: soc.religion.christian
Subject: suicide- is it a sin in God's eyes.
Date: 16 Nov 92 02:53:33 GMT
Organization: New York University


	Is suicide a sin in the eyes of God?
From: phoenix@cwis.unomaha.edu (Shannon Chris Saltzman)
Newsgroups: soc.religion.christian
Subject: Re: hell and heaven
Date: 22 Nov 92 23:10:47 GMT
Organization: University of Nebraska at Omaha

You will probably recieve twelve thousand and one(dont forget that one)
followups for this article so I will be as short as possible.
1...No one goes to hell that doesnt make that choice.
2...God sends no one to hell(kind of redundant)
3...What  makes hell,hell is the lack of God, love and mercy.
4...If a person loves God,love and mercy they will not go to hell.
5...The road to God is easy, the road to hell(believe it or not)is harder
6...If your spouse truly wants to go to hell God will understand but
be hurt by that decision. You would understand despite the hurt also.

I can not emphasis enough that God is more than willing to see to it
that you not go to hell if you dont want to.
Dont love God?Ask God for help(he wont force you but he will help you)
Dont understand God?Ask God for help.
Dont even give a @#!@@ about God? You can still ask God why you should.
No one you love will go to hell if they dont want to, if thy do want to
then love them enough to let them make their own decision.

-- 
 "Is doggie heaven kitty hell?" Stephanie phoenix(age 6)
 "God is the oldest person around and has no age" Me
 "How does teflon stick to a skillet when nothing sticks to teflon?"
 "Let God instruct them on what a christian really is..."Mike Warnke
From: mpaul@unlinfo.unl.edu (marxhausen paul)
Newsgroups: soc.religion.christian
Subject: Re: Need Christian Jokes...
Date: 23 Nov 92 01:57:58 GMT
Organization: University of Nebraska--Lincoln

gslade@nowhere.uucp (Greg Slade) writes:

>In article <Nov.10.02.10.21.1992.12496@geneva.rutgers.edu> rphroy!hydra!hamilton@uunet.uu.net (William E. Hamilton CS50 CS/50) writes:

>>There's also a magazine called The Wittenburg Door which publishes Christian
>>Humor, but I don't know how to make contact with them. Anyone else know?

Contact:
Youth Specialties
1224 Greenfield Drive
El Cajon, CA 92021


--
paul marxhausen .... ....... ............. ............ ............ .......... 
 .. . .  . . . university of nebraska - lincoln .  . . .. . .  .. . . . . . . .
 .     .    .  .   .     .   .  .    .   .  .   .    .   .  grace .   .    .  . 
   .         .       .      .        .        .      .        .   happens .
From: mmrwlm@sn535.uca (Wanda L McCrae)
Newsgroups: soc.religion.christian
Subject: Re: Sexuality (was: Re: REFRESH)
Date: 22 Nov 92 23:05:06 GMT
Reply-To: mmrwlm@sn535.uca
Organization: General Electric

In article 12073@athos.rutgers.edu, hudson@athena.cs.uga.edu (Paul Hudson Jr) writes:

>If you really think about it, do you think that Paul and Barnabas performed
>this act on themselves on their missionary journeys?  Or do you think
>that Jesus did this?

I've GOT to play "devil's advocate" here and ask, do you KNOW that
they didn't?  :-)  (On with the asbestos suit...)

Over the years I have learned that I should stop where the bible
stops.  The bible says nothing about masturbation, so I think
that if a person masturbates, it is between her/him and God.  If a person
feels guilty because of it, it is probably wise to discontinue it.  If
the person does not feel guilt, far be it from me to try to make them
feel guilty.

---
______________________________________________________________________
Wanda L. McCrae            | "Free your mind and the rest will follow.
mmrwlm@sn370.utica.ge.com  |  Be color-blind.  Don't be so shallow!"
                                 - En Vogue
From: jspence@cmptrc.lonestar.org (John Spence)
Newsgroups: soc.religion.christian
Subject: Re: Lost Salvation
Date: 17 Nov 92 08:20:14 GMT
Organization: CompuTrac Inc., Richardson TX

In article <Nov.10.02.27.50.1992.12658@geneva.rutgers.edu> hudson@athena.cs.uga.edu (Paul Hudson Jr) writes:
>What would happen if someone believed and then began to villify and
>curse the Holy Spirit, a sin for which there is no forgiveness?

The curse against the Holy Spirit was only valid when Christ was alive,
that is present in the flesh on earth, not now. Pick up a copy of
Barcley's Commentaries. I think that he offers the best explaination on
this sin.
-- 
jspence@cmptrc.lonestar.org                                (214) 235-7161 x4100
John E. Spence                                                  CompuTrac, Inc.
"I don't speak for CompuTrac, and CompuTrac doesn't speak for me!"
From: mdw@cbnewsg.cb.att.com (mark.d.wuest)
Newsgroups: soc.religion.christian
Subject: What is an Evangelist?
Date: 22 Nov 92 23:03:10 GMT
Organization: AT&T

In article <Nov.20.00.49.10.1992.12048@athos.rutgers.edu> hudson@athena.cs.uga.edu (Paul Hudson Jr) writes:
>I noticed your use of "our evangelist" in this article.  Do mainline
>Churches of Christ recognize the office of evangelist?

It varies by congregation.  Most do not have anyone they call an
evangelist, preferring "minister" for the title.  The only Biblical
qualm I have is that, in the Bible, evangelists appointed elders,
where in "mainline" churches of Christ today, elders hire evangelists.

>What is a "Boston" Church of Christ evangelist, and how is he
>different from an evangelist in evangelical circles, say, like
>Billy Graham or Reinhardt Bonnke?

A "better" question might be, "What is an evangelist in the Bible?"
We believe that that is what our evangelists are like.  If not, well
then we'll just have to change!

In the Bible, evangelists (eg: Timothy) started churches, appointed
elders, and lead in some special way.  I've not studied this a lot,
so *I* would be interested in what others have read.  Can I change
the subject to "What is an evangelist?"

This is basically what our evangelists do.  They lead the congregation.
In Boston, their evangelist appointed their elders, choosing men who
met the qualifications Paul told Timothy and Titus to use for elders.
It's no secret that they are very close to appointing elders here in New
York.

Mark
-- 
Mark Wuest                              |     *MY* opinions, not AT&T's!!
mark.wuest@att.com                      |
mdw@cheshire.att.com (NeXT Mail)        |
From: adpgate!miked@urbana.mcd.mot.com ( ADP OPuS)
Newsgroups: soc.religion.christian
Subject: Re: Our Daily Bread
Date: 20 Nov 92 06:20:34 GMT
Organization: ADP Dealer Services R&D, Portland, OR

Il Hyung Cho (cho@wdl1.wdl.loral.com) wrote:
: Does anyone out there have an address and/or phone number
: of the publishing company that puts out Daily Bread?
: If possible, I would like a phone number.
: 
: I need the information in a hurry so please email it to
: me at the address below.
: 
: Thank You...
: 
: Il Hyung Cho
: "I always thank God as I remember you in my prayers..."  Phil 4

The address is:

Our Daily Bread,   Copyright 1992, Radio  Bible Class,  Grand  Rapids,
Michigan 49555-0001
-- 
+---------------------------------------------+--------------------------------+
| Michael A. Dalton i'net: miked@adpgate.UUCP | "What I say to you, I say to   |
| CIS 71410,2624  Voice: (503) 294-4200 x2541 |  everyone: Watch!" -Mark 13:17 |
+---------------------------------------------+--------------------------------+
From: twiggs_te@alice.lrc.edu
Newsgroups: soc.religion.christian
Subject: ECSTACY followup
Date: 18 Nov 92 09:15:16 GMT
Reply-To: twiggs_te@mike.lrc.edu
From: jfb@macsch.com (John Baskette)
Newsgroups: soc.religion.christian
Subject: Church Persecutions
Date: 22 Nov 92 23:20:22 GMT
Organization: MacNeal-Schwendler Corp.

Subject: Re: The pope and Galileo

In article <Nov.18.05.17.53.1992.4542@athos.rutgers.edu> altheimm@nextnet.ccs.csus.edu (Murray Altheim) writes:
>In article <Nov.15.21.54.29.1992.23803@geneva.rutgers.edu> jfb@macsch.com (John Baskette) writes:
>>
>>1.)  The poster seems to imply that heresy in the 2nd century of Irenaeus
>>     time could result in the execution of the heretics.  My understanding
>>     is that the early Church never resorted to violence to propogate
>>     the faith, and that the first time heretics were ever executed was in
>>     the late 4th century, a good 350 years after the time of Christ and 
>>     the apostles.  Am I wrong?
[various book references omitted]

Thank you all for the book references.  Murray could you please cite any
instances of persecution or execution of heretics or other groups (Jews?)
by Christians in the 2nd or 3rd centuries?  Your original post implied
that gnostics of the 2nd century when Irenaeus lived faced the possibility
of death at Christian hands.  I do not think that this is true.  

Thanks.

John
From: norris@athena.mit.edu (Richard A Chonak)
Newsgroups: soc.religion.christian
Subject: Re: exorcism
Date: 16 Nov 92 03:27:38 GMT
Organization: Massachusetts Institute of Technology

In article <Nov.13.02.17.48.1992.19278@geneva.rutgers.edu>, g91a2724@giraffe.ru.ac.za (MR GJ ANDREWS) writes:
|> Need info on exorcism - would appreciate anything. E-mail or posted here.
|> Thanks
|> Greg

Hi, Greg--

Ex-Jesuit Malachi Martin wrote a book about it some years back, called 
"Hostage to the Devil".

May I ask why you're looking for information on this rather scary subject?

-_RC
From: REXLEX@linac.fnal.gov
Newsgroups: soc.religion.christian
Subject: Dr. Lloyd Jones Tapes
Date: 17 Nov 92 08:17:09 GMT
Organization: FNAL

1600 titles available on tape from.
Albums of series, and individual tapes.  
Complete Catalog $2

Sound Word Associates
PO Box 2035
Michigan City, IN  46360
(219)879-7753
From: msh9848@hertz.njit.edu (-Unknown-)
Newsgroups: soc.religion.christian
Subject: Re: There is no god, Modified by author
Date: 20 Nov 92 05:14:16 GMT
Organization: New Jersey Institute of Technology, Newark, N.J.

I am not interested in starting a flame war nor am I looking for philosophical
proofs. I can accept the idea of an intelligence managing the universe. 

What I am trying to find out is why christians chose christianity for their
view of the universe as opposed to Judaism or Wicca, etc. 

Matt Harelick
From: cho@wdl1.wdl.loral.com (Il Hyung Cho)
Newsgroups: soc.religion.christian
Subject: Our Daily Bread
Date: 16 Nov 92 02:43:09 GMT
Organization: LORAL - Western Development Labs

Does anyone out there have an address and/or phone number
of the publishing company that puts out Daily Bread?
If possible, I would like a phone number.

I need the information in a hurry so please email it to
me at the address below.

Thank You...

Il Hyung Cho
"I always thank God as I remember you in my prayers..."  Phil 4