HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: jj@alice.att.com (jj, curmudgeon and all-around grumpy skeptic)
Newsgroups: rec.audio
Subject: Re: Audio
Date: 27 Jan 93 16:13:14 GMT
Article-I.D.: alice.24718
Reply-To: jj@alice.UUCP (jj, curmudgeon and all-around grumpy skeptic)
Organization: NJ State Home for Bewildered Terminals

In article <1993Jan26.221704.16884@borland.com> dominic@borland.com (Dominic Yip) writes:
>One might like to sit in their living room listening to 
>pulse train or white noise instead of music.  Its subjective, 
>freedom of choice.  I remember when I was in college I listen
>to 1812 cannon and pink floyd helicopter all day and show
>people what that sounds like and think that might impress them !

>At certain stage, one would like hi-fi only but in the long run
>people will switch and became music oriented.  Try some
>Conrad-Johnson gears, it may change your perspective.
Of course, this Yip critter has ignored the followup article
pointing out some real music one could use to excite the same problems
in the same algorithms.

Then, this Yip person proceeds to ad-hominem attacks.

You, Yip, are incapable of learned discourse.  You are unable to
understand what a followup is, unable to use your mental facilities
to figure out what one might listen to in MUSIC to hear the same
sorts of effects, and seem concerned only with prating about
your superiority to people who actually know what they're doing.

I don't know why I bother with this newsgroup.  Yip, I expect an
apology forthwith.  You had no need to be insulting, you had no need
to go raving about "... music- oriented..." and so on.  You COULD
have asked "what sort of music has these effects", but you didn't,
you went for the rhetorically dishonest cheap-shot instead,
showing us all that you don't CARE about quality, or about
careful testing procedures (because you aren't interested in
critical material), but you DO care about attacking your fellow
human just for the heck of it.

Why don't you go join Kurt and Sud, those two people who put
words in my mouth to shoot down, when they realize they're wrong
and can't refute the ones I've said, in your own newsgroup,
oh, say, let's call it "rec.audio.I.dont.care.about.quality".

No, that doesn't fit for Kurt, he cares about quality, to his
own metrics (i.e. preference), so it has to be something different.

Tell you what, let's have a contest. Everyone post their proposal
for a newsgroup to include Sud, Strain, Yip, and that fellow who
wrote the intemperate anti-lp ravings I just 'n'ed past.
-- 
Copyright alice!jj 1993, all rights reserved, except transmission by USENET and like facilities granted. Said permission is granted only for complete copies that include this notice. Use on pay-for-read services specifically disallowed.
---------
Member HASA - Athiest Scum Division
"Extremism in the defense of liberty is no vice" - AuH2O for President
From: rmp@crashnburn.Eng.Sun.COM (Richard Pottorff)
Newsgroups: rec.audio
Subject: Re: Skin Effect in cables - what is it ?
Date: 22 Jan 1993 22:44:31 GMT
Organization: Sun
NNTP-Posting-Host: crashnburn
Keywords: cable skin effect

In article <1993Jan16.165520.4833@bernina.ethz.ch> torda@igc.ethz.ch (Andrew Torda) writes:
While trying to extract still more money from me, the man in
the hi-fi shop harassed me about my thick speaker cable and
claimed they suffered from "skin effect".

He was no physicist and was not going to explain this further.
What is the "skin effect" ?

-Andrew
-- 

Andrew Torda, Computational Chemistry, ETH, Zurich, torda@igc.ethz.ch


I add:

The guy was trying to "skin" you.

There truly is such a thing as skin effect (ask Madonna :-) ), but what
he was talking about was the tendency for alternating electric currents
to generate an electromagnetic force in a wire. That EMF causes the current
to confine itself to  mostly the wire's surface.

Amateur radio operators notice this in the MHz and higher ranges. It might
even be DETECTABLE at audio frequencies, but only at the higher frequencies
and with large amounts of current.  But, I'd venture to guess that you are
just starting out, and probably don't own a system that's otherwise 
perfectly even in frequency response from 20 Hz to 20 KHz. So, don't worry
about skin effect.

The salesdroid was full of it when he ridiculed you for the thickness of
your inter-connects. Actually, the thicker the wire, the less pronounced
the skin effect at any given frequency and current. There are two reasons
for this. 1) The thicker the wire, the more surface area a given length
has, and thus the lower the resistance. 2) The thicker the wire, the
further from the center of the magnetic flux the surface is, thus the
current can penetrate further into the wire, also decreasing resistance.

Just remember two things about audio cables: 1) They can never be too
thick, and 2) make sure they are of sufficient gauge to handle the 
power being applied to the speaker.

Rick


-- 
Stolen signature:
GILLETTE'S PRINCIPLE:
  "If you want to make people angry, lie. If you want to make
   them absolutely livid with rage, tell the truth."
From: tom@afthree.as.arizona.edu (Thomas J. Trebisky)
Newsgroups: rec.audio
Subject: Re: CD vs. LP again
Date: 26 Jan 93 19:15:47 GMT
Organization: University of Arizona, Tucson, AZ

kurts@hpnmdla.sr.hp.com (Kurt Strain) writes:

> ...  That's why people spend upwards of $25K for a turntable system,

Are there actually people who spend this kind of money for a TURNTABLE ??!!
What have they been smoking?? Get with it man, haul those LP's and that
turntable to the dump!  I'm sorry, anyone who spends this kind of cash
on a total system even, has lost all credibility with me, that's for sure.

I got rid of my turntable and all my LP's years ago and no regrets from
me.  I can start fresh and build a music collection with superior technology.

Are these people actually serious about advocating LP's over CD's ?
Do I need to clean the wax out of my ears?  They want the scratches and
pops, the needle reaming their records smooth on every playing.  Dragging
a rock thru congealed petroleum, yeah, that's the technology for me!
They want the compressed dynamic range, a whole 30 minutes or whatever
it is of music before you have to flip the thing over?  The wonders of
RIAA equalization curves, low tracking weight tonearms skidding across
your precious vinyl when some clod bumps your turntable.

I can't think of any reason to prefer LP's to CD's, except that some
music has not been properly remastered for CD's and is available in a
good LP -- or is not available at all on CD.  I think the LP heads are
just hoplessly biased by shelf-fulls of LP's they don't want to admit
are obsolete.  I have done my time with LP's and CD's both, the choice
is clear to me.

(Is this LP-advocacy serious -- have I just misinterpreted some kind of
net-joke?)
--
	Tom Trebisky	ttrebisky@as.arizona.edu

This program posts news to thousands of machines throughout the entire
civilized world.  Your message will cost the net hundreds if not thousands of
Newsgroups: rec.audio
From: grimme@sword.eng.hou.compaq.com (David Grimme)
Subject: Sony Carousel Problem
Organization: Compaq Computer Corp.
Date: Mon, 25 Jan 1993 15:51:31 GMT


My Sony cd carousel occassionally exhibits a rather annoying problem, and
I am curious if other carousel players (particulary Sony players) commonly
suffer from the same problem.  Occassionally, when I power on or change to
another disc, the platter does not halt at any disc but just spins forever.
Turning the player off then on several times eventually "cures" this, at 
least until the next time it happens.  Is this a known bug?  Are there any
known fixes?  This player is about three years old, but the problem has 
occurred once in a while for a little over a year now.

Another data point on Sony Amps:  My STR 910 also has substantial background 
noise.  I have not yet tried to screw down the PCB more securely, but will 
do so soon.  (With the amp unplugged of course.)


Dave



David J. Grimme
Compaq Computer Corporation
grimme@twisto.eng.hou.compaq.com
grimme@sword.eng.hou.compaq.com
From: rsud@sw.stratus.com (Rajiv Sud)
Newsgroups: rec.audio
Subject: Re: Comments on analog music
Date: 25 Jan 1993 15:21:18 GMT
Organization: Stratus Computer, Inc.
Distribution: world
NNTP-Posting-Host: ernie.cac.stratus.com

In some post a short time ago I made references to "engineers" vs
engineers. Looks like serious "engineer" alert here....

as jj writes:
> You have NO technical facts to stand on, and we both know it.

	You know what, jj, you are absolutely right.

	In a prior post you also pontificate on how my liking
analogue was a preference. Right on again. IT IS a preference and
one based on not a single idy bity fact! (two for two! high fives
for jj all around)
	But you know what, I also can't give you a single fact or
equation as to why I prefer to eat at a gourmet resturant instead
of pulling into a mcdonalds.
	Can't offer any facts or equations as to why I would prefer
a good european larger over a six pack of bud.
	Can't offer any of your coveted facts for why one might
prefer to read an acknowledged literary work over a harlequin(sp?)
romance.
	You may be thinking I'm off the track here but, no, this is
where the crux of this debate lies. We are not able to attach facts
or equations to most things in life. What we do have is that HUMAN
search for truth and beauty. And if you suggest that everything that
needs to be measured has been, well, thats crock from an "engineer".
	Distortions from a turntable are generally euphonic and it
is (you'll love this part) a measured fact that better turntable
designs minimize these distortions. Ascending to better turntable
designs (ones with measured reduced distortions) resulting in better
sound would seem to put a bit of a hole in your "analogue is liked
because its distorted" theory.
	In digital much of the distortion is in the signal itself.
Some of these distortions have been identified after "prefect sound
forever" was unleashed. Gain riding is one example. Jitter, known
about for some time, but now getting lots of attention is another.
	The nature of turntable and digitial distortions and their
sonic effects makes them literally apples and oranges. Share with
us what FACTS you have used to equate the two and pronounce digital
distortions as less.
	Bottom line may be that you, indeed, have reached the limits
of your hearing. My experience reveals that this is more often due
to a closed mind and "good enough for me" mentality then by genetics.
	Considering the steady advance of digital over the past 11
years of consumer availability perhaps you can tell us at what point
digital became better for you. This would actually work out to be a
good gauge of your hearing limitations.

..Rajiv
Newsgroups: rec.audio
From: palane@iastate.edu (Paul A. Lane)
Subject: Re: Liquid Cooled Speakers?
Organization: Iowa State University, Ames IA
Date: Sat, 23 Jan 1993 05:37:46 GMT

In <5070326@hplsla.hp.com> kens@hplsla.hp.com (Ken Snyder) writes:

>/ tony@hpcupt1.cup.hp.com (Tony Marriott) /  asks:
>> I have some speakers which claim that the tweeters are "liquid
>> cooled". Can anyone out there help me understand what this
>> means and how this effects the sound that the speakers
>> generate? I assume that this process should somehow make the 
>> speakers sound better. Or does it just allow the speakers to
>> be more efficient, prolong the life of the speakers, or what?

>    Many speakers nowadays have what is know as ferrofluid injected
>into the area between the voicecoils and magnet assemblies.  This
>normally is an air gap.  The ferrofluid is a light oil with small
>magnetic particles in it.  It has the advantages of improving the
>magnetic coupling between the magnet structure and voicecoil and
>the thermal coupling as well.  (hence the "liquid cooling")  In
>reality it can be a good thing.  It does, however, change the Q
>and damping of the speaker due to the mechanical reaction it poses
>to movement of the voice coil.  It is typically only used in tweeters
>whos voice coil movement is very small.

I have a modest problem with the terminology the manufacturer is using.
Any system I used that is "liquid cooled" means that I'm forcing liquid
around devices which produce heat (lasers, magnets, etc.) It appears that
the manufacturer is using ferrofluid as a heatsink. I may be picking a
nit, but dubious advertising annoys me.

Paul

Newsgroups: rec.audio
From: brambo@eco.twg.com (Mark Bramblett)
Subject: Re: Sony TA-E2000ESD DSP A/V Surround Preamp
Followup-To: rec.audio,rec.video
Organization: The Wollongong Group (East Coast Operations)
Distribution: rec
Date: Fri, 22 Jan 93 17:22:16 GMT

In article <C17zCv.Awv@ampex.com>, dna@ampex.com (David Altekruse) wrote:
> 
> Mark Bramblett writes:
> >
> >On the TAE1000ESD you can't set up a custom equalization curve for your
> >room, but you can for the other digital sound processing modes. To me that
> >is screwy.  Is this possible on the TAE2000ESD?
> >
> I'm not sure I follow your question.  There are ten user programable 
> selections so you can set the equalization on any or all of them.  You
> can disable the other DSP functions on any of them, of course, leaving
> one of them just for equalization, if you want.  If you want the same
> equalization on all selections you do have to program each one of them
> separately which is more work than ideal.  
> 
> - David Altekruse, dna@ampex.com


What I meant to say is that on the TAE1000ESD, equalization and dynamic
range expansion/compression is disabled.  So if you have refined an
equalization curve that works for your room set up, you cannot take
advantage of it when you are in DOLBY SURROUND mode.  I was curious if
this design limitation had been removed in the new model.

Thanks,
		Mark
Mark Bramblett

VMS Program Mgr
The Wollongong Group

brambo@eco.twg.com
From: checksix@flyboy.EBay.Sun.COM (Al Conte)
Newsgroups: rec.audio
Subject: Re: Skin Effect in cables - what is it ?
Date: 23 Jan 1993 00:21:34 GMT
Organization: Sun Microsystems, Inc.
Distribution: world
Reply-To: checksix@flyboy.EBay.Sun.COM
NNTP-Posting-Host: flyboy.ebay.sun.com
Keywords: Skin the Cat

At audible freqs, skin effect does not come into play.
Our simulation tools here at Sun, do not look at skin effect on
signal transmission until we approach designs of well above 80 mghz.
Audible freqs, run out at 20,000 hz.
Measured skin effect differences at 100 mghz is less than .01 percent
from the outside of the wire to its core.
You tell me if that makes any difference. NOT !!!!!!


Al



Newsgroups: rec.audio
From: moskowit@panix.com (Len Moskowitz)
Subject: Re: Where can I ftp "Perfect Box"
Organization: Panix Public Access Internet & Unix, NYC
Distribution: rec
Date: Fri, 22 Jan 1993 14:43:36 GMT

Brian St. Denis writes:

>I have PerfectBox.  Send e-mail and I'll send it.
>
>PS.  To those of you who have asked me to send it and still have not
>received it, I tried but your address was unreachable.

Keep in mind that Perfect Box is not public domain software; it's
shareware.  If you use it, please send its author (Warren Merkel) some
money.  He worked long and hard and deserves your support.

-- 
Len Moskowitz
moskowit@panix.com
Newsgroups: rec.audio
From: mpalmer@encore.com (Mike Palmer)
Subject: Re: Receivers: Pioneer VSX-D901S vs. Yamaha RX-V1080
Organization: Encore Computer Corporation
Distribution: na
Date: Thu, 21 Jan 1993 17:38:46 GMT

mowat@slipknot.eng.pyramid.com (Eric Mowat) writes:

>I've read some recent negative reviews of Pioneer receivers: they don't
>sound as good as the Yamaha, etc.  And everyone seems to love the
>Yamaha 1050.  Does anyone have any opinions on the D901S?  It has S-video,
>good rear/center channel power (45/55 watts), a few more DSP modes (8
>vs. 5), and a subwoofer connection.  Yamaha features are pretty similar,
>with the biggest advantage being the level controls for front/rear/center 
>speakers and a DSP mode called 35mm.

>What it comes down to is price.  Best 1050 price I found is $888 vs. the
>901S price of $690.

>So what in your opinion makes the Yamaha worth it?  I want to be convinced :-}

You should also look at the Denon 1010 - around $800 and IMHO it's MUCH
better than the Pioneer and Much (Only Capirtal M) better than the Yammy.
Newsgroups: rec.audio
From: rsilvers@nynexst.com (Robert Silvers)
Subject: Re: Those b*s*a*ds in the white van - I hope they got them.
Organization: Nynex Science and Technology
Date: Thu, 21 Jan 93 15:17:13 GMT

In article <1993Jan18.225320.26727@schbbs.mot.com> bstdenis@mailbox.fwrdc.rtsg.mot.com (Brian St. Denis) writes:
>In article <1993Jan13.165228.7220@hubcap.clemson.edu> michaet@hubcap.clemson.edu (michael dale townsend) writes:
>>bill@bilver.uucp (Bill Vermillion) writes:
>>>The typical 'pitch' is that 'they ordered 4 speakers and were shipped 4
>>>PAIR so we are trying to sell them'.
>>

	I called the police with the license plate number once.  The police told me
they knew about them and what they were doing was legal.

						--Rob.

Newsgroups: rec.audio
From: amigo@halcyon.com (Scott Rowin)
Subject: Re: Speaker vent placement question
Organization: Northwest Nexus Inc. (206) 455-3505
Date: Wed, 27 Jan 1993 07:49:35 GMT

bower@pecan.cns.udel.edu (Ty Bower) writes:

>Najeeb writes:

>>I have a Paradigm 7SEII and it is ported on the rear with two small bass ports.
>>Both ports are vents from one enclosure.  

>The Paradigm 11seMkII has three ports in the rear.  Two are right next
>to each other, the third one is slightly farther away and towards
>the bottom.   It almost appears that it ports into a seperate section
>of the cabinent  (there are screws between the top two and the bottom
>one which indicate the presence of a separating piece of MDF.)


	Porting is best done at the rear, 180 degrees out of phase with the
cone, also the port should be moved up slightly so the woofer dosen't have
direct-firing through the port (middle or higher of the box). The reason
for rear mounting? Front mounting could incur the infamous whisting effect
where rear mounting can eliminate some of that since it fires away from you.
There's been many to argue on it, but I find that if you must front-mount
at least keep to mounting the port a decent distance from the cone so as
to eliminat coupling that can cause distortion. The experts agree typically
on rear-mounting ports - and the "bible" of loudspeaker design (Loudspeaker
Cookbook) mentions rear mounting as the optimum position.

							--> Amigo
Newsgroups: rec.audio
From: joe@avs.com (Joe Peterson)
Subject: Re: AAAAAAAAAAAUGH! (Was: DAT, DCC and MD)
Organization: Advanced Visual Systems Inc.
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1 PL8]
Distribution: na
Date: Thu, 28 Jan 1993 22:02:17 GMT

Adam J. Weitzman (weitzman@chaos.cs.brandeis.edu) wrote:

: Take a listen and make your choice. But don't bitch here about why other
: people don't agree with you. It gets tedious.

Yes!  It's about time somebody spoke some sense!
Newsgroups: rec.audio
From: interpol@casbah.acns.nwu.edu (Drew Cheng)
Subject: Re: Advice on bookshelf speakers
Organization: Northwestern University, Evanston Illinois.
Date: Fri, 22 Jan 1993 20:22:54 GMT

In article <1993Jan21.233410.1255@cmkrnl.com> jeh@cmkrnl.com writes:
>In article <1993Jan21.145404.16320@news.nd.edu>, mike@nowaksg.chem.nd.edu (Michael George Buening) writes:
>> In article <1993Jan20.225752.4956@news.acns.nwu.edu> interpol@casbah.acns.nwu.edu (Drew Cheng) writes:
>>>In article <0fLQQQm00iUy45YXB7@andrew.cmu.edu> Martin David Frankel <mf3s+@andrew.cmu.edu> writes:
>>>>I am looking for a small and relatively inexpensive bookshelf speaker in the
>> [deletion alert!]
>>>Take a look at the PSB Alpha bookshelf speakers.  Good price at $299/pair, and
>>>they sound great.
>>>
>> 
>> Is it just me or just South Bend or what?  $299/pr for PSB Alpha is not that
>> good of a deal 
>
>I don't know where the $299/pair price came from, list is $199, and don't 
>expect discounts. 
>

My mistake.  The correct list price is $199.  My apologies.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------
| Drew S. Cheng, BA '91 MD '95           | "Compelling, yet tedious...I    |
| Northwestern University                |  feel spent, like a man who is  |
|  Medical School, Chicago, IL USA       |  forced to wear his genitals    |
| Internet : interpol@nwu.edu            |  like a pendant."               |
|                                        |    - Dieter, "Sprockets"        |
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: dencisco@eos.arc.nasa.gov (David Paul Encisco)
Subject: Re: Thiele cs2.2 opinions wanted...
Organization: NASA Ames Research Center
Distribution: usa
Date: Mon, 25 Jan 1993 17:31:36 GMT

co940@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Nicholas E. Damato) writes:


>Hello, my neigbor is buying new speakers, he has narrowed his choice
>down to three:
>1. paradigm studio monitor
>2. vandersteen 2ce
>3. thiele cs2.2
> 
>he's got a great quote on the thiele's ($1950) and asked me
>to post hear for opinions (no pun intended...)

That's a pretty good price for the CS2.2. They were $2290 when
I auditioned them. For that price I'd give the Apogee Centaurs
or the Stages a listen to. One thing you have to examine before
you purchase speakers is your listening habits. Do you sit all
the time? Read? Work on your computer? Throw parties? I'm constantly
doing things while I listen to music. I realized when I brought
home a pair of Centaurs that they weren't real conducive with my
listening habits. I ended up with the Vandersteen 2CE and have been
real happy. Another consideration for your neighbor is the PSB
Stratus Gold for around $2000.

Dave
From: moskowit@panix.com (Len Moskowitz)
Newsgroups: rec.audio
Subject: Re: Inline attenuator (RCA-->reduce volume-->RCA)
Date: 26 Jan 93 15:17:17 GMT
Article-I.D.: panix.C1Gvsu.1KB
Organization: Panix Public Access Internet & Unix, NYC


Laird P. Broadfield writes:

> Can somebody point me to a source for an inline attenuator (preferably
> by mail order)?  Some friends have a *very cheap* integrated system,
> plus a standalone CD player, the problem is that the entire range
> of listenable volume is between 0 and 1 on the control. 

Radio Shack sells an attenuating cable with RCA plugs on both ends.
Under $10.


-- 
Len Moskowitz
moskowit@panix.com
From: shetline@bbn.com (Kerry Shetline)
Newsgroups: rec.audio
Subject: Re: Comments on analog music
Date: 24 Jan 93 16:50:18 GMT
Followup-To: rec.audio
Organization: BBN
NNTP-Posting-Host: bbn.com

In article <3340422@hpcc01.corp.hp.com>, kirk@hpcc01.corp.hp.com (Kirk
Lindstrom) wrote:
> and could hear that they knew what they were doing.  Even now I'm leary
> of buying CDs unless I trust the engineering:  GRP, Chesky, Schefield
> and Telarc though I think the first 3 are "more musical" as a whole at
> times.  I've heard some good remastering done on the "Verve label" that

Be careful, Kirk. I don't think it's politically correct on rec.audio to
say anything nice about Telarc. And to mention Telarc in the same breath
with Schefield? You're in trouble now! :-)

-Kerry
Newsgroups: rec.audio