From: rsm58307@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (Ron)
Subject: Robert Jordan's "THE SHADOW RISING" (SPOILERS)
Organization: University of Illinois at Urbana
Date: Tue, 6 Oct 1992 17:21:30 GMT

SPOILERS BELOW!  Don't read any furthur unless you've read the book.

>>  Ok, I finished TSR today morning, and I was a bit miffed.  Nothing much
>>  seems to happen in this book!  Rand & Co wander around the wastes for
>>  a bit, and end up fighting YET ANOTHER FORSAKEN (no wonder its gonna
>>  take 7 or 8 books, he's still got 8 or so forsaken to "handle"!).
>>  Perrin saves the day in the 2 Rivers.  Nynaeve and Elayne save the
>>  day in Tanchico.  EOF.

I thought it was sort of neat how Rand has a forsaken to teach him
now. First time Rand has shown the intelligence that marked him as
a resurrection of the Dragon. Until now it was alot of power and
word play.

I felt like slapping Nynaeve for letting the Forsaken get away.
Elayne and Nynaeve ARE supposed to be very powerful channelers
so I don't see the bit about handling the forsaken as out of line.

>>  The history aspect was pretty nice, I liked how we find out so much
>>  about the Aiel (the linking w/ the Tuathanan should have been obvious,
>>  but I missed it completely).  On the other hand, it demistifyies them,
>>  and they were my favorite people.
>    I liked this alot.  I'd forgotten what the Tuathanan were like so I
>didn't make the connection until Perrin saw them again.

Yes, that was interesting. I thought the most intriguing concept was
that the chiefs knew the past (it was a cool structure of power - the
Aiel were raised to despise weakness at arms yet the chiefs were always
Aiel willing to accept their heritage and not be overshadowed by it).

>>  The Two Rivers portion was garbage IMHO, Perrin should NOT have survived.
>>  At the least, he should have been captured by the peddler-guy or the
>>  WhiteCloaks.   They way he saves the day and gets the girl in the end
>>  reminded me too much of Eddings work.
>>  Likewise for the Tanchico portion, I find it difficult to believe that
>>  Nynaeve could defeat one of the Forsaken.
>      You have to remember that Nynaeve, Egewene and Elayne are supposed to
>be the strongest Aes Sedai to come around for a long time.  It's very
>possible that Forsaken (forget her name) was overconfident and was cocky and g
>got beaten. 

I think Nynaeve's little episode with Brigitte gave Nynaeve the edge on
the Forsaken since she knew what the forsaken was. The forsaken (M....?)
was already painted as overly cautious yet very skilled. Only the full
realization of how much she had been duped allowed Nynaeve full access
to her powers. Of course, in myself anger can suddenly dissipate; it
would be interesting to see what would have happened to Nynaeve if she
could not have kept up her power (and I think there should have been or was
a very strong possibility of that happening).

As for Perrin, I sort of disliked that portion, except for the incident
with Lord Luc (who is Rand's brother?!?, raised in the Blight and serving
shadow - what future confrontation have we here?).

>>  The bit about the Amyrlin seat was beautiful, I can't wait to see how
>>  it turns out (unfortunately, it'll probably be that Siuan is magically
>>  restored by some angreal, she gets back the Tower, and lives happily
>>  ever after).  
>     I was very surprised about what happened at the White Tower.  Siuan isn't
>going to get her powers back, though.  I believe Egewene will be the next
>Amyrlin seat.  Min sees Gawyn bow to her and Perrin sees Nynaeve and Elayne
>and other women (don't remember if they were specifically Aes Sedai) bowing
>to her as well.

Egwene will get the Amyrlin seat, I agree. There was that little dream
portion Rand/Perrin/or Mat had when the sky was showing pictures; Egwene
with a scared expression on her face (or worried expression) surrounded
by bowing Aes Sedai (or at least Nynaeve was visible and Elayne's hair
was glimpsed in the crowd).

>>  The ending was not satisfactory, I find it hard to believe Lanfear didn't
>>  even bother searching the area for the woman-half of that super-angreal,
>>  take the one from Rand, kill Asmodeus, try to contact Shaitan, etc.
>>  Asmodeus seemed pretty wimpy as well, although I guess thats his
>>  character.  And how did that other Aiel-psuedo-chief get the markings
>>  on his hand?  Who would draw it for him (perhaps he's a darkfriend, and
>>  asked one of the forsaken?).
> I don't get Lanfear.  I don't know if she's supposed to love Lews Therin so
>much that she wants Rand to come to her willingly and she isn't willing to
>push that even for the super-angreal.  By the way wasn't the statue a
>ter'angeal that linked the holder to the strongest sa'angreals? 
>   I can't come up with a viable reason for the pseudo-chief having the 
>dragons on his arms either.

Psuedo-chief: I think either one of the forsaken has helped him, it is
a painted mimic (doubtful) or Leafblighter has done this.

Lanfear had her name mentioned. Was it mentioned before? What was the name of
the wife of Lews Therin Telamon that the Dragon was looking for in the Prelude
to the Eye of the World? (the first book)

I think Lanfear is either going to have a tragic ending or she will side
with Rand against Leafblighter at the very end (or at least be neutral to
the conflict). (that of course encompasses the possibilities)  Anyway,
what I'm trying to say is its obvious she's important to Rand and possesses
a great deal of power. After all she was the one who made the Bore into
the Dark One's prison (and started this entire mess).

I think she is supposed to mimic the character of the Dragon, except
where the Dragon does care for others (and tries not to manipulate those
who do not get in his way) she has a much looser definition for deciding
who gets in her way.

>>  All in all, I feel the entire series is moving more towards formulae
>>  than originality now.  I hope I'm wrong.
>> parik rao						       prao@cs.ucsb.edu
>    I still thought it was a great book and can't wait for the others to come
>out.  These are all just my honest opinions and are open to discussion, but no
>flames please.
>			Shane L. Bell
>			bell@ecs.umass.edu 

I think the books are heading more and more towards intrigue (where different
factions work against and for each other, ignorant of the overall effect).
I think the Dragon can be painted by Jordan in two ways: either he will
be a master manipulator who seems to be losing but actually had a plan all
along or he will lose and gain fairly evenly, only to be nearly defeated,
only to win.

While it is sad that this is the predictable way books tend to go, I think
the reason for this is that the number of emotionally satisfying heroic
endings is sort of few....

One of the best things about this series was the number of secrets. Every
sentence or paragraph (or maybe page at the most) hinted at something
unknown that the reader KNOWS the Dragon should find out. Now that some
of the major secrets are being revealed I hope Jordan is wise enough
to start manufacturing new ones with the same scope and self-integrity
that he has already demonstrated.

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