From: lilleyc@cs.man.ac.uk (Chris Lilley)
Newsgroups: alt.pagan,alt.magick,alt.religion.sabaean
Subject: Re: HALLOW'EEN
Date: 1 Oct 92 17:52:19 GMT
Followup-To: alt.pagan
Organization: Dept Computer Science, University of Manchester, U.K.

Well thank you Eshin-Fun. Compared to your last article, there was at
least some factual content in amongst the slagging off.

In article <BvF41n.H8y@ddsw1.mcs.com> eshin@ddsw1.MCS.COM (Eshin-Fun)
writes:

>>>lilleyc@cs.man.ac.uk (Chris Lilley) writes:

>: In article <Bv6yKn.6nr@ddsw1.mcs.com> eshin@ddsw1.mcs.com
(Eshin-Fun) writes: 

>: >Druid and Celtic tribes of Britain 
>
>The Druid refers to: a member of a priesthood in ancient Gaul, Britain, and
>Ireland who are said to have studied natural sciences, prophesied through
>priestly sacrifices, and acted as judges and teachers but who later appeared
>in Irish and Welsh sagas and Christian legends as magicians and wizards.

So they weren't a tribe then. Yes they were Celts. So "Druid and
Celtic tribes" is a tautology.

>While the Celtic tribes of Britain was intended to identify the Celt from
>those who were:
>a member of a division of the early Indo-European peoples in Iron-Age and
>pre-Roman Europe distributed from the British Isles and Spain to Asia Minor
>and in part absorbed into the Roman Empire as Britons, Gauls, Boii,
>Galatians or Celtiberians.

>I spoke not of any Druid tribes. 

Yes you did. Whether you *meant* to is another matter.

>----------------------------------------------------------------------<
> You obviously were not reading in any                                <
> effort to understand what was written only with an impetious         < 
> prejudice to criticize and read in what was not there to begin with. <
>---------------------------------------------------------------------<

I thought this was such a classic that I framed it. I may refer back
to it later.


>Addenda on the Jack-0'-lantern:
>
>Though originally identified with the phosphorescent light frequently moving
>in the air over marshy places; and the corposant or will-o-wisp that
>retreats from those who try to reach or follow it; the  jack-0'-lantern was
>also often called ignis fatuus, foolish fire" the implication being that
>only a fool would follow it,and that the light is foolish to flee from a
>fool.
>In Lancashire folk speech, [ethnocentrict enough for you?] it is called
>either Jack-o'-lantern or Peg-o'-lantern, according to the local concept of
>its sex. The Jack-o'-lantern of German folklore, especially in Lower Saxony,
>is the *Dickepoten*. This is often the soul of someone condemned thus to
>wander for having moved or disregarded a boundary mark. In Ireland the
>phenomenon is variously known as *teine sionniic*,[fox fire; *teine side*,
>[fairy fire]; *Sean na gealaige*,[Jack of the bright light]; *Liam na
>lasoige*, [William of the little flame], etc. and it is commonly believed to
>be the wandering soul of one who has been refused entrance into both heaven
>and hell. He often terrifies travelers; sometimes he warns them. He is
>famous for leading them astray, but has been known to direct those in
>trouble.

Ah, facts. Without references, but facts none the less. Thank you;
that part was interesting.

>: If you want to read up the origins of the pumpkin lantern drag out
>: your copy of the Silver Bough and look up :
>: 
>: guizing or guizers
>: sowens

>-------------------------------------------------------------------<
> You also seem to have a problem with spelling as with references. <
>-------------------------------------------------------------------<

>To begin with there is no "guizers" in the Golden Bough.

*FLAME ON*
Now look here, dickhead!  Read your own criticisms!! I framed them
both (above) so even you can read them. I said the Silver Bough. I did not
say the Golden Bough. If you don't know the difference, it is your
ignorance not mine. Now piss off to a library and dig out the
reference!!!
*FLAME OFF*

>-----------------------------------------------------------------------<
> volume book by Sir James Frazer, but regardless, how dare you         <
> stand to criticize when my reporting is no more alleged than that of  <
> Frazer's reports and then have the audacity to give bogus references  <
> that have nothing to do whatsoever with the subject you are making    <
> "alleged" reference to?                                               <
>-----------------------------------------------------------------------<

*FLAME BACK ON*

If you had taken the trouble to read what I wrote, "The Silver Bough",
you would not have made sush an _utter_ fool of yourself in public. If
I mention a book you have not come accross before, the polite thing to
do is ask me for the full reference. Your spurious references to the
Golden Bough are a complete waste of time and only make you look
stupid.

>Perhaps you should go back to school to learn how to read the English
>language 

Yes, why don't you!! I couldn't have said it better myself!!

An apology would be in order once you have got your head working
again.


>or get out of a cockney enviorment to where you might find a bit more
>illuminating rapport with  the language that you read so you prevent in the
>future making such a stupid fool of yourself!

Ignoring for the moment the racist tone which seems to run through
your remarks - presumably you have something against British people -
and also passing by your perplexing reference to cockneys (I was not
born in sound of Bow Bells or indeed in London at all) -

 - Read your own comments. They *all* apply far more to you than to
me. Particularly the parts about reading what is written, and looking
foolish in public.

As I said, an apology is in order once you have calmed down.


--
Chris Lilley
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