HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: davem@county.lmt.mn.org (David Mackmiller)
Subject: Re: Poker question
Organization: LaserMaster R&D, Minneapolis, MN  USA
Date: Fri, 25 Sep 1992 00:49:45 GMT

In article <+_bz7rm@rpi.edu> kinosr@jec302.its.rpi.edu (Roy Kiyoshi Kinoshita) writes:

>This sounds like a similar game I play with 3 cards called '31.'  Card
>values are the same as in BJ.  If you have the Ace and 2 face cards (or 10)
>in the same suit, you have a '31' and you don't lose.  If you don't have
>a '31' (e.g. A,K,9 same suit=30) you can knock and everyone can draw one
>more card.  The LOWEST hand loses.  If you have a '31' EVERYONE loses.

>There really isn't any betting done.  You start off with 3 piles of chips
>in front of you (say, $2 a pile, so the most you can lose is $6).
>Every time you lose, you throw one of your piles into the middle.  Three
>loses and you're out; the only person remaining with chips in front of
>him/her collects the pot.

>In general, if you have 2 face cards of the same suit (total=20) before
>drawing cards, knocking isn't a bad idea.  Remember, you don't have to
>have the highest hand, just don't have the lowest.

>Also, if you knock and tie, you lose 1.  If you knock and lose, you lose 2.

Funny you should mention, since I'm having a "31" game a my house on
Saturday.  A Californian among us brought us the game under the name
"Butterfly".  We have since changed the name to "Dickhead", which
is what you are allowed to call the last person to win the pot.

When we first started playing the game, it occurred to me that there
must be some average hand value per round of cards drawn and that 
value would indicate when it would be safe to knock.  So I wrote a
quick program which basically showed that if you are dealt a 16+, you 
should knock.  Add two to that total for every round of cards drawn.
(i.e. if you held 24+ after 4 draws, knock).  I always leave these
games a winner.

31 is such an easy game that it's not hard to get a bit drunk,
especially when the games last 6-8 hours.  We have a rather elaborate set of 
rules involving passing a token (we call it a "flange", which for historical 
reasons is the cover of a Honeywell thermostat), which denotes whose turn it 
is to deal.  Since the dealer is at a slight disadvantage (he draws last), 
if you fail to pass the flange *during* your deal, you must also deal the 
next hand.  On especially boisterous nights, we also have a "sub-flange" to 
determine whose turn it is to draw.

Dave "You're knocking on a 16???" Mac


---------------------------------------------------------------------------
              ...it's not funny 'til someone loses an eye.
------------------------------+-----------------------+--------------------
mail: davem@county.lmt.mn.org | flames: alt.good.news | Opinions=mine alone
------------------------------+-----------------------+--------------------
From: mbuck@fibers (Michael D. Buck)
Newsgroups: rec.gambling
Subject: Re: AC Info Wanted
Date: 5 Oct 92 11:25:33 EDT
Distribution: usa
Organization: Allied Fibers, Petersburg VA

In article <BvKBoD.1tB@acsu.buffalo.edu>, v065hpft@ubvmsd.cc.buffalo.edu (Brian R Lippman) writes:
> I'm going to be in New Jersey the weekend of October 16th and was wondering
> if anyone could tell me at which casinos I'd find the best minimums at this
> time of year.

I was just in AC on Septermber 26th, a Saturday.  If you want to play
table games for $5.00 on a weekend, you should arrive *very* early on
Saturday morning.  The $5 tables begin disappearing around 11 AM.  By
5 PM, you'll be hard-pressed to find one anywhere in town.  The only
exception to this seems to be at TropWorld, where they have a specific
section of the casino running under the "Boardwalk Games" banner.  This
area had 8-10 $5.00 BJ tables at 9 PM on Saturday night.  I couldn't
be sure, but it looks like they maintain these tables at $5 at all times.
Applause for TropWorld for bucking the "screw the customer" trend in AC.
Quite a few people were hovering over these tables waiting for a spot,
however.
________________________________________________________________________
Michael Buck                          | "Orange Juice...It's not _just_ 
UUCP: decwrl!twwells!fibers!mbuck     |      for heterosexuals anymore!"
Internet:                             |                -- Anita Bryant, 
  twwells!fibers!mbuck@decwrl.dec.com |                 in a future life
Newsgroups: rec.gambling
From: jacko@cbnewsl.cb.att.com (Jacko)
Subject: Re: OVR/UNDR QUERY
Organization: AT&T
Date: Mon, 28 Sep 1992 15:49:15 GMT

>GOOOOOOOO-O-O-O	BILLS, BISONS, BULLS & er!...well...Sabres, I guess!
>Take Miami vs Seattle

Whoops.  That's the only game I really did well on this weekend (taking
Seattle).  I got lucky on the over, the opening line was 36.5 but it went
down to 35 on Sunday when I took it.  I was shocked the Niners-Saints game
went under.  What a bummer.

Just thought I'd mention that I saw two significant line moves over the
weekend out in Vegas, one was dead right, one was dead wrong.  The line
on the Vikings-Bengals game was Vikings+2 when I hit town on Thursday night,
but by Sunday morning it had actually gone to Vikings-1, (well, PK at the
Sands).   And the Vikings rolled to victory.  The line on the Jets-Rams
game was -1 (opened at PK earlier in the week) and went to Jets -3 at 
game time.  Whoops.  Only lost a little on that one.  Got the under right.

Managed to get the Chiefs - 6.5 at the Sands.  Let's see how that one
works out tonight.

>Peace! 

Never on the gridiron! :-)

Jacko.
From: v065hpft@ubvmsd.cc.buffalo.edu (Brian R Lippman)
Newsgroups: rec.gambling
Subject: AC Info Wanted
Date: 3 Oct 92 20:31:00 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: University at Buffalo
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41

I'm going to be in New Jersey the weekend of October 16th and was wondering
if anyone could tell me at which casinos I'd find the best minimums at this
time of year.  I was in AC in late June and was able to find $5 BJ at most
casinos but if the traffic is down I think it may be a little bit harder
to find these minimums to force people to wager more.

Also, I visited the Indian casino at Foxwoods in Connecticut and found it
rather interesting.  Besides being jammed packed, the lowest BJ min. I could
find was $15 and there was a good 1/2 hour wait to get a seat.  I did like
the fact that there was a no smoking table section.....not just a no smoking
table.

Please post your responses here or e-mail.  Thanks.

Brian
Newsgroups: rec.gambling
From: hall@kronos.arc.nasa.gov (Michael Hall)
Subject: Re: Yet another trip report - Reno (Oct. 2-4)
Keywords: Blackjack
Organization: NASA/ARC Information Sciences Division
Date: Tue, 6 Oct 1992 00:56:17 GMT

In article <10722@wrgate.wr.tek.com> donk@fury.wr.tek.com (Donald C. Kirkpatrick) writes:

>The Fitz/Harolds/Nevada Club stamp a card each time you get a
>blackjack. Seven stamps and the card is placed in a drawing for some
>inconsequential gifts. What the heck, it was free so I participated.

Yeah, I think it's just something to draw in suckers and to get the
names of counters.  High rollers (or even anyone above the poverty line)
shouldn't be interested in a 1 in 1,000 chance (1 prize per week for all three
casinos) of winning a Goldstar bottom-of-the-line VCR, so there's no reason
to get a card which involves giving them your name and address.  Expected
value is maybe a few cents an hour, and that's only if their inconsequential
gift is worth something to you.  Scoff at their suggestion that you
waste your time on their silly promotion.  Spit on them.  Tell them
rec.gamblers are not impressed ;-)

-- 
Michael Hall            \ "Another round?  Another round?"
NASA Ames Research Center\ - anonymous dealer at anonymous casino
hall@ptolemy.arc.nasa.gov \

Newsgroups: rec.gambling
From: yasu@ll.mit.edu (Alan Yasutovich)
Subject: Re: Roulette system(s)
Organization: MIT Lincoln Laboratory
Date: Sat, 3 Oct 92 14:56:32 GMT

In article <1992Oct2.160004.23643@odin.corp.sgi.com> stantz@sgi.com (Mark Stantz) writes:
>In article <1992Oct2.125323.27279@ll.mit.edu> yasu@ll.mit.edu (Alan Yasutovich) writes:
>>In article <1992Oct1.200614.6906@odin.corp.sgi.com> stantz@sgi.com (Mark Stantz) writes:
>>>	All the time you're sitting there trying to find the biased numbers,
>>>betting on odd/even, red/black, etc..., while writing down the results, the 
>>>house percentage is eating away at you...it really adds up, too.
>>
>>
>>	Agreed.  The nature of roulette is different than other "even
>>	proposition" games in that you can sub-divide your bets.  i.e.
>>	not just bet on red/black.  Bet on 1-17 and 23, for example.
>>	This is a powerfull tool. Except that "O" does whittle away.
>
>	This does not make sense.  Assume that we never make corner bets 
>(house advantage worse than 5.26%.)  Then no matter where you put your money 
>on the roulette layout, and regardless of how you proportion it, the house
>will still win an average of 5.26% of the money you bet on each spin.  This is 
>all but certain, since when want to study the outcomes of thousands of spins, 
>you're putting yourself in the game for the 'long run'.  The only sensible 
>strategy is to bet the minimum every time while you're gathering your 
>statistical data.  Doing so on "even-money" bets will tend to reduce your 
>varience while playing.
>
>	-Mark

	What I mean is this.  Wouldn't it be a wonderfully agressive
	strategy to bet on 35 out of 36 numbers? There are certain
	specific numers that don't come in for thousands of spins
	(in a random cyclical fashion).  You could sit there and win
	one unit per spin with great reliablity in a game like craps
	if you could parse your bet out like that.  But one zero
	every so often kills the whole thing.

-- 
	Alan Yasutovich
	"inquiring  (and nosey) minds WANT TO KNOW!!!"
	I can remember when "safe sex" meant having a padded headboard!!
	Tick Tock.....Tick Tock......Tick Tock .....Tick Tock......
Newsgroups: rec.gambling
From: huh@wccf.mit.edu (GENE SIMON HUH)
Subject: maximum expected gain?
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41    
Keywords: maximum expected gain
Organization: MIT - Whitaker College
Date: Mon, 28 Sep 1992 00:20:00 GMT

Dear netsters,

     I'm a little curious about a couple of things, but I'll keep it to one 
thing this posting... :-)

     Let's suppose a purely hypothetical situation wherein a person has a 
perfect memory and a perfect ability to calculate probabilities instantly.  
What would be the maximum expected gain for this person in a single-deck game 
of blackjack, given that this person can keep track of every card and and make 
decisions accordingly?  The many counting strategies outlined in the FAQ 
approach this ideal with varying degrees of success, but it would be 
interesting to know what perfect counting strategy would yield in terms of 
expected gain (besides getting you barred, I mean).  Would it be easy to train 
a computer to play blackjack using a "perfect" strategy?  It doesn't seem to 
me as if it would be too hard, but I'm not computer-literate, so what do I 
know?

     I didn't see this kind of question addressed in the FAQ, so you have my 
apologies if it was.  

Thanks in advance

Gene "no, really, it IS a hypothetical situation" Huh
huh@wccf.mit.edu
From: wellman@oasys.dt.navy.mil (Larry Wellman)
Newsgroups: rec.gambling
Subject: koycerin wagering method
Date: 6 Oct 92 19:26:05 GMT
Reply-To: wellman@oasys.dt.navy.mil (Larry Wellman)
Organization: Carderock Division, NSWC, Bethesda, MD


Anyone know if the "koycerin Wagering Method" works?
Newsgroups: rec.gambling
From: kolt@quads.uchicago.edu (Matt K/Gonzo)
Subject: Keno
Keywords: don't laugh
Reply-To: kolt@midway.uchicago.edu
Organization: University of Chicago Computing Organizations
Distribution: usa
Date: Mon, 28 Sep 1992 23:51:09 GMT

Hey...if someone who goes to LV can grab one of those things that lists all the
payoffs for Keno on a coming trip, I would appreciate their mailing me a copy.
Ya see, I have an incredibly mindless boring horrible job right now and I need
something to do during lunch to make my mind work... I was thinking of 
looking at the different payoffs and comparing them with true odds. I figured 
it would be humorous.

Thanks in advance,
Mattman



-- 
Matt Koltnow   B0 t-- w- c g+ k s+ e r- p   "Truth is not kind; and you
Email: kolt@midway.uchicago.edu              say neither am I." --Toad the    
Ntalk: kolt@ellis.uchicago.edu (or @quads)   Wet Sprocket      
Boycott the IP... R.I.P. MSS...Hugs to all...Standard Disclaimers Apply...
Newsgroups: rec.gambling
From: yasu@ll.mit.edu (Alan Yasutovich)
Subject: Re: Roulette system(s)
Organization: MIT Lincoln Laboratory
Date: Fri, 2 Oct 92 12:53:23 GMT

In article <1992Oct1.200614.6906@odin.corp.sgi.com> stantz@sgi.com (Mark Stantz) writes:
>	All the time you're sitting there trying to find the biased numbers,
>betting on odd/even, red/black, etc..., while writing down the results, the 
>house percentage is eating away at you...it really adds up, too.


	Agreed.  The nature of roulette is different than other "even
	proposition" games in that you can sub-divide your bets.  i.e.
	not just bet on red/black.  Bet on 1-17 and 23, for example.
	This is a powerfull tool. Except that "O" does whittle away.

-- 
	Alan Yasutovich
	"inquiring  (and nosey) minds WANT TO KNOW!!!"
	I can remember when "safe sex" meant having a padded headboard!!
	Tick Tock.....Tick Tock......Tick Tock .....Tick Tock......
Newsgroups: rec.gambling
From: thail@seas.gwu.edu (Samuel R. Posten)
Subject: Connecticut casinos  also Double Exposure
Originator: thail@seas.gwu.edu
Organization: George Washington University
Date: Wed, 30 Sep 1992 04:07:15 GMT

Has anybody been to the casinos in Connecticut that are run by indians?  I
hear they are pretty good, but I want to go to a place thats not as
crowded as AC.

Also Has anybody got an idea of how the odds on the new game Double
exposure stacks up to regular balckjack?  I played for a while at Bally's
Park place and did real well, plus it's so easy that new people can pick
it up faster than BJ.

If you don't know the rules, I'll post them here.


********************************************
*  thail@seas.gwu.edu                 SRP  *
*                                     III  *
********************************************
*                                          *
*  Whoever said talk is cheap obviously    *
*         Never owned a modem...           *
*                                          *
********************************************
From: "al sorhaindo" <al.sorhaindo@execnet.com>
Newsgroups: rec.gambling
Subject: football handicapping
Date: 2 Oct 92 16:14:04 EST
Reply-To: "al sorhaindo" <al.sorhaindo@execnet.com>
Distribution: rec
Organization: Executive Networks Information

Selections for the week

* WEST VIRGINIA +2- over Boston College
* Iowa          +20 over MICHIGAN
* LSU           +7  over Tennesee
* Miami         +11 over BUFFALO
* DENVER        +1  over Kansas City



Remember, recommended money management is
to only play only %1-%1.5 of a bankroll per star.



Season recap 6-8, -4.2 units

Sep 27  * Jets       +1  over RAMS        L 10-18
Sep 27*** NEW ENGLAND+16 over Buffalo     L  7-41
Sep 24  * California +6  over KANSAS St.  W 27-23
Sep 19 ** MEMPHIS ST.+5  over Miss. State W 16-20
Sep 19  * Louisville +5  over ARIZONA ST. L  0-19
Sep 19  * USC        +11 over Oklahoma    W 20-10
Sep 19  * BYU        +1  over UCLA        L 10-17

Sep 14 ** CLEVELAND  +2- over Miami       L 23-27
Sep 13 ** GIANTS     +3  over Dallas      L 28-34
Sep 12  * Memphis St +2- over LOUISVILLE  W 15-16
Sep 12  * Va. Tech   +1  over E. CAROLINA L 27-30
Sep 12  * W. Va.     +6- over PITTSBURGH  W 44-6

Sep 7 *** DALLAS     +2- over Washington  W 23-10
Sep 5   * IOWA       +14-over Miami       L 07-24
---
  DeLuxe 1.21 #11688  al.sorhaindo@execnet.com
--
Executive Network Information System  (914) 667-4567
International ILink Host
Newsgroups: rec.gambling
Subject: BJ: advantage from high count linear?
From: jfeldhouse@miavx3.mid.muohio.edu (Jim Feldhouse)
Date: 29 Sep 92 17:18:24 EST
Distribution: world
Organization: as little as possible

I have read that for each + count using a system like HIGH/LOW
the advantage for the player goes up roughly .5%?
Assuming this is correct, is this linear?
As in, if the count is +10 the advantage that hand is 5%, +20 = 10%?

A related question is, is the advantage per + count using
Wong Halves as opposed to HIGH/LOW the same?  Seems to me that
at least both systems are trying to estimate the same number,
it is just that one is more accurate.

Thanks
JIm
Newsgroups: rec.gambling
From: lien@ucsu.Colorado.EDU (LIEN FANG PEI)
Subject: Re: Colorado Gambling
Organization: University of Colorado, Boulder
Date: Sun, 27 Sep 1992 08:49:43 GMT

In article <bcu103id8e=S00@amdahl.uts.amdahl.com> jsp@pls.amdahl.com writes:
>coburnn@spot.Colorado.EDU (COBURN  NICHOLAS SCO) writes:
>
>}	Just wondering if anyone has any experience with gambling in the
>}small mountain towns of Colorado. These would include Central City, Blackhawk,
>}etc.  I hear that max bets are $5 and that only slots, jack, and poker are
>}available.  True?  Any tips would be appreciated.
>
>I was there a few months ago.  I would say don't bother unless you're
>really hard up for a way to occupy your time, or you're so addicted to
>gambling that you just HAVE to do something.  In the first place, there
>is absolutely NO parking.  If you are lucky enough to find a spot, 
>they'll tell you that you can only go to their casino.  Yes, they seem
>to only have slots, blackjack, and (supposedly) poker.  The limits are
>low and so are the payoffs.  It's clearly meant to be a tourist attraction,
>not a place for "real" gamblers to go.
>
>--James Preston
>

If you can afford $5, I don't think parking is a problem right now.
There are thousands of parking lot in Central City and Blackhawk which
charge you $5 for all day.  They are outside the casino area.  But free
shuttles are available between the parking lots and the casino area.

Douglas Chang

Newsgroups: rec.gambling
From: hall@kronos.arc.nasa.gov (Michael Hall)
Subject: Re: Shuffle procedure...
Organization: NASA/ARC Information Sciences Division
Date: Fri, 2 Oct 1992 00:02:34 GMT

In article <91311@netnews.upenn.edu> nawrocki@stipple.seas.upenn.edu (PaulBear) writes:

>Also, I am looking for a good algorithm for shuffling the cards other
>than your basic traditional "pick a random number using random()".   I
>think that random() is not statistically random enough to use it
>alone.  So if anyone knows of any references, etc.  for this sort of
>thing I would also love to hear of them as well!!!

Well, I *would* post C code for a random number generator and an abstract
data type for a deck of cards, but the government has this big
hang-up about code going out over the net to other countries.  The FBI
just raided the NASA building across the street for that kind of thing,
so I'm feeling rather paranoid, and I'll just have to talk you through it.

First off, you *will* have a more *random* random number generator than
random() even if you use random(), because your deck of cards itself is
storing beaucoup state information, greatly increasing the period of
your generator.  I really don't think you have much to worry about,
unless you use the low bits of rand() or something like that (even
distribution of random numbers is somewhat important.)  Of course,
most random number generators do not use a deck of cards to improve
randomness, simply because it is time-inefficient (there are better
ways to store state information), but since you must represent a deck of
cards anyway, you wind up with a better random number generator as
far as you are concerned.

For your shuffle routine, I highly recommend the following, an incremental
version of Knuth's batch random shuffling algorithm:

|Algorithm P' (Incremental Shuffling). Let X1, X2, ..., Xt be a set
|of t numbers, which we wish to draw randomly without replacement,
|one number each call.
|
|P1. [Initialize] Before first call, set j <- t.
|P2. [Generate U] Generate random number U, uniformly distributed between
|                 zero and one.
|P3. [Exchange]   Set k <- |jU|+1. (Now k is a random integer, between
|                 1 and j.) Exchange Xk<->Xj, return j as index to
|                 dealt card.
|P4. [Decrease j] Decrease j by 1

In my program, the procedure where I claim to the user that I'm
shuffling the deck then becomes trivial, setting the current card
index to the appropriate end of the array, just variable = constant,
step P1.

The incremental approach has the advantage that it does not have
to shuffle all the cards, in some sense, if not all the cards are
dealt.  This can greatly speed-up blackjack simulations on 8 decks
of cards with 70% penetration, for example.  If you are not planning
to run simulations, but just want to let a human play a game, then
obviously the difference in speed won't matter.

-- 
Michael Hall            \ Remember:
NASA Ames Research Center\ Big Brother and the Griffin Agency are watching.
hall@ptolemy.arc.nasa.gov \
From: ricks@luke.nrl.navy.mil (Richard Schumeyer)
Newsgroups: rec.gambling
Subject: Request for Cripple Creek Info
Date: 6 Oct 92 15:51:17 GMT
Distribution: rec
Organization: NRL

I will be in Colorado Springs later this month, and may go over to Cripple
Creek.  Does anyone have any BJ info on Cripple Creek?  Thanks in advance.
--
------------------------
Rick Schumeyer          
Software Technology     
ricks@luke.nrl.navy.mil 
------------------------
Newsgroups: rec.gambling
From: irwin@uvmark.uucp (Frank Irwin)
Subject: Re: Connecticut casinos  also Double Exposure
Date: Wed, 30 Sep 92 15:14:28 GMT
Organization: Vmark Software, Inc.

In article <1992Sep30.040715.18345@seas.gwu.edu> thail@seas.gwu.edu (Samuel R. Posten) writes:
>Has anybody been to the casinos in Connecticut that are run by indians?

Yup.  Going there tonight, as a matter of fact.

>I hear they are pretty good, but I want to go to a place thats not as
>crowded as AC.

Then don't go to Foxwoods (the casino in question).  It's *real* crowded.
If you think about it, they've got a monopoly on the gaming in this area,
so anyone who wants to gamble goes there.  I only go there to play poker,
and that's getting better, but I hear horror stories about the table games.

There's only one casino, BTW, which accounts for the crowds.
-- 
 ============================================================================
 Frank Irwin                   | "The only thing worse than losing 7-27 to a
 Vmark Software, Inc.          |  kitty is losing 7-27 to a kitty that bets."
 irwin%uvmark@merk.com         |     - me
From: stantz@sgi.com (Mark Stantz)
Newsgroups: rec.gambling
Subject: Re: Roulette system(s)
Date: 3 Oct 92 23:16:22 GMT
Organization: Silicon Graphics, Inc.

> What I mean is this.  Wouldn't it be a wonderfully agressive
> strategy to bet on 35 out of 36 numbers? There are certain
> specific numers that don't come in for thousands of spins
> (in a random cyclical fashion).  You could sit there and win
> one unit per spin with great reliablity in a game like craps
> if you could parse your bet out like that.  But one zero
> every so often kills the whole thing.

	There are 38 numbers on a standard American roulette wheel, not 36.

	You can bet on 35 numbers, 37 of the 38 numbers -- even 38 of the 38
numbers.  The house advantage is always 5.26% when you're making single-number
bets on a double-zero wheel.  How many bets you make, how many bets you
make simultaneously, the numbers you put those bets on...none of this 
matters.  Think about this.  If you still think your strategy is a wise one, 
try it in Atlantic City or Vegas some time, and see what happens.

	-Mark
	
Newsgroups: rec.gambling
From: kgirodias@azcc.arizona.edu
Newsgroups: rec.gambling
Subject: downtown LV
Date: 5 Oct 92 16:00:07 GMT
Organization: University of Arizona UNIX Users Group

Hello all,

I have heard from friends and family that the rules in downtown Las Vegas
are more favorable than on the strip. I assume to get people downtown.
I heard the slots pay off better, my question is are the blackjack rules
more favorable downtown? Is it worth going downtown on my next trip up
there?


Thanks,

Ken
Newsgroups: rec.gambling