HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: deadboy@mindvox.phantom.COM (The Dead)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
Subject: Re: _Agrippa_ The Legend Grows!
Date: 16 Dec 92 05:23:35 GMT
Organization: [Phantom Access] / the MindVox system

falconer (Steve Copold) writes:

> I found the following in SF Lovers Digest. Saul Jaffe, the Moderator,
> grants permission for reposting if headers are left in place. So, there
> are no problems (re: copyright) associated with placing this in a forum.
> In light of the recent discussions on Vox, and the fact that the cracked
> _Agrippa_ is in the archives, I thought that many of you would find
> this to be pretty amusing stuff.
> 
>  -Falconer
> 
> *************************************************************************


Today's Mindvox news: Weird shit happened today. I'm not sure who all the
participants where, but Kroupa and some other people on Mindvox wrote a
parody of Agrippa, called "Agr1ppa", this is part of the original title
that went out in irc:  


AGR1PPA 2.01 - NEW & IMPROVED (Fixes Bugs from Version 2.00)
(A Book of The Mentally Disturbed -- Even FUNNIER than the original!)
Text by US@phantom.com
Etching by THOSE_PEOPLE@phantom.com
(C)1992 THE POWER COMPUTER (In My Mind Since 1979)
syberspa(e
All Bytes Preserved


And then tonight God came down from the mountain and spoke to Kroupa.
William Gibson called him on the phone to talk to him. And Kroupa pulled
it out of "respect for Gibson's work" which I think is a crock. It's a
joke, if Gibson can't take a joke, then why bother............

I am totally angry at this, it is extremely cool that William Gibson is
into all this and behind Mindvox, its almost like the God of cyberpunk
smiling on it all, but I think its a total crock that something which is
obviously a joke can get pulled because Gibson might frown and get upset.

My unasked for .02 cents.
From: mab@buphy.bu.edu (Michael Burstein)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
Subject: Re: Heinlein purchase?
Date: 11 Dec 92 18:24:39 GMT
Organization: Boston University Physics Department

In article <Bz0262.5wJ@news.cso.uiuc.edu> lkb50902@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (Laura K. Bunting ) writes:
>
>I was increadibly disappointed with The Cat That Walked Through Walls,
>is there any book that is suppose to follow it up? or at least give it
>and ending....It felt like Heinlein just got tired of writing and decided
>to stop where the book ends....

If you read "To Sail Beyond the Sunset" it ties up some of the loose
ends in "The Cat Who Walks Throuh Walls," but mostly as an aside...








-- 
Michael A. Burstein
Physics Department, Boston University         mab@buphy.bu.edu
590 Commonwealth Ave.                         (617) 353-9437 (o)
Boston, MA 02215                              (617) 735-9433 (h)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
Subject: Re: SF novels that have become movies (update) 
From: hairy@sloth.equinox.gen.nz (Phil Anderson)
Date: Wed, 16 Dec 92 11:51:04 GMT
Distribution: world
Organization: Lethargy Inc.


In article <BzBMEq.I6z@undergrad.math.waterloo.edu> 
gjschmid@leibniz.uwaterloo.ca writes:

  > Someone claimed that the Richard Matheson book is _My Name Is Legion_, not
  > _I Am Legend_, as my text had indicated.  Can anyone else confirm or deny
  > this?

Richard Matheson did write "I am Legend" (1954), his first SF novel. 
It was filmed as "The Last Man on Earth" (1964) and "The Omega Man" 
(1971). 

I don't know if he ever wrote anything called "My Name is Legion", but 
Roger Zelazny certainly did.

Phil

 ----------------------------------------------
 Phil Anderson  ***  hairy@sloth.equinox.gen.nz
 ----------------------------------------------
       "No-one is equal to anyone else!"
From: sfd@soda.berkeley.edu (Scott Drellishak)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
Subject: Re: LENSMAN?
Date: 11 Dec 1992 19:23:58 GMT
Organization: Metaphor Computer Systems
NNTP-Posting-Host: soda.berkeley.edu

In article <522@blue.cis.pitt.edu> seawasp@vm2.cis.pitt.edu (Sea Wasp) writes:
)In article <1g8p60INN77j@agate.berkeley.edu> sfd@soda.berkeley.edu (Scott Drellishak) writes:
)>I agree.  Here's a koan to consider: GOOD Golden Age space opera is
)>the same as BAD Golden Age space opera.  Doc was the first, and
)>deserves credit, but the reason space opera is fun is because it's
)>*so* silly.  "QX" indeed.
)
)	What's wrong with "QX"? Don't tell me you've never typed or 
)written "OK", which is the obvious thing that Doc was replacing there.
)I thought that was one of the neater touches he had in the series; 
)putting in tiny changes which were close enough to the originals so 
)that there was no doubt what they meant, but still changed enough
)so they emphasized the DIFFERENCE of the location.
)
)	Now "clear ether" used to sound awfully silly to me... until
)I heard people routinely saying "have a nice day"... 

What about (from memory): "cool your jets", "hipe!", "zwilnik", "space
louse", and the all-powerful Negasphere?  *These* are examples of
really bad "futuristic" jargon.  I still love the books, but they're
not really science fiction -- they're adventure/fantasy/romance novels
written with (rather clumsy) science fiction trappings.  Kind of like
Star Wars, which borrowed heavily from Doc Smith.
-- 
/--------------------------------------------------------------------------\
| Scott Drellishak   sfd@neuromancer.metaphor.com                          |
|                "Spumco ... the Danes call it quality."                   |
\--------------------------------------------------------------------------/
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written,soc.history
From: miklg@acuson.com (Michael Goldman )
Subject: Re: Civil War Alternate Histories
Organization: Acuson; Mountain View, California
Date: Fri, 18 Dec 1992 23:01:28 GMT

cthorne@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (Charles E Thorne) writes:

>At the time slaves were introduced into the American Colonies (West Indies
>in the 16th century) there was a need for agricultural workers who could do
>well in that climate.  There was no great desire on the part of European
>farmers to emigrate and thus the slaves fulfilled the need.  This also was
>the case later in the American South.

	The American colonies of Britain were largely populated by
	prisoners who were given the choice of punishment or
	"transportation" to the wilds of America.  Given the
	limited ability of a London pickpocket to survive in 16th 
	century America this might appear a difficult choice. However,
	since the penalty for pickpocketing was hanging even as late
	as the 1840s, the choice was easy.  By 1776, fully 1/3 or so
	of American colonists were transportees or their descendents.

	The shortage of labor was not by itself sufficient to introduce
	slavery.  I would guess that it was that the kind of labor
	which used slaves did not produce sufficient profit to make
	it profitable to pay wages.  Mechanized work using water
	power does produce sufficient surplus profit to allow for
	wages.  Thus, the introduction of the industrial revolution
	eliminated the need for serfs or slaves.

	- Michael Goldman

-- 
"History teaches us that men and nations behave wisely once they have
exhausted all other alternatives." - Abba Eban
	Disclaimer:  All views are solely my own & not the views of Acuson.
	<sun!sono!miklg>  or  [miklg@acuson.com]
From: mike-b@hpfcso.FC.HP.COM (Michael Bishop)
Date: Sat, 19 Dec 1992 06:50:42 GMT
Subject: Short Story: War of the Words
Organization: Hewlett-Packard, Fort Collins, CO, USA
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written

Hi.  I'm looking for a very old short called "The War of the Words".  I
believe it appeared in the 1960s in an issue of _Analog Science Fiction_
but I'm not sure, and I have no clue as to who wrote it.  It was a quite
funny story involving the WAC wing of the Pentagon, unfriendly aliens,
and a headless robot wielding an M-16 machine gun.

If anyone has any idea where I might find this story, I'd really 
appreciate a pointer.

Michael Bishop
Hewlett-Packard Company
Internet: mike-b@fc.hp.com
CompuServe: 71552,1341
From: cozzlab@garnet.berkeley.edu ()
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
Subject: Re: Writers who get paid too little (used to be Co-authored books)
Date: 16 Dec 1992 21:06:31 GMT
Organization: University of California, Berkeley
NNTP-Posting-Host: garnet.berkeley.edu

In article <9212162008.AA06846@enet-gw.pa.dec.com> marotta@hannah.enet.DEC.COM ("Hurt not the Earth, neither the sea, nor the trees.   16-Dec-1992 1508", Revelations 7:3) writes:

>[lots of stuff deleted]

>On the other hand, so many poor and simply awful books are published and
>distributed.  The publishers seem to have little or no sense of
>quality and pride.  The consumers seem to be buying this dreck,
>though I certainly do not understand why!

Because that's what they _like_.  One reader's dreck is another reader's
Real Neat Stuff.
 
>When the writer of a fabulous novel, as Guy Gavriel Kay....

As for example.  I can't stand Kay.  I tried the first volume of the F.T.
(which I'd heard people raving about for years) and couldn't get through
Chapter Two.  Screaming "DERIVATIVE" at the top of my tattered lungs,
I drop-kicked it into the recycling.  So... Is Kay Real Neat Stuff, or
is he dreck?  Depends on who you ask.
 
>[he buys the stuff he likes, which he defines as "quality", and refuses
>to buy the stuff he doesn't like, which he defines as "dreck."]

>What else can the lowly consumer do, other than to refuse to pay
>hard-earned dollars for poor quality goods?

But that's what everyone does--but they have their own definitions
of "high" and "low" quality.  

Witness the Trekkie quoted by Ellison in that infamous article, the one
who told a pro who'd written both Trekstuff and other stuff, "If it ain't
Star Trek, it ain't shit."  (Or maybe he said it WAS shit, but you get
the idea.)

Everybody buys according to his own taste--and we have the disadvantage
that our tastes are shared by a relative few, it's those Other Guys
buying all the books we call dreck and urging the publishers to print
more of it.  It doesn't matter the slightest bit whether "our" tastes are
"better".  You do get, from time to time, publishers who want to publish
"quality" (however they define it) instead of catering to majority opinion.
They generally don't stay in business very long, and I don't think there's
anything we can do about it.

I wish _I_ could write bushels of dreck and make money.  It'd never work,
though; I have a weak stomach.....


Dorothy J. Heydt
UC Berkeley
cozzlab@garnet.berkeley.edu

Disclaimer:  UCB and the Cozzarelli lab are not responsible for my
opinions, and in fact I don't think they know I have any.
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
From: parmentier@iowasp.physics.uiowa.edu
Subject: Re: Auto-buy lists
Organization: Department of Physics and Astronomy, University of Iowa
Date: Fri, 18 Dec 1992 02:43:00 GMT

In article <1992Dec18.015418.23388@galileo.cc.rochester.edu>, colin@callisto.pas.rochester.edu (Colin Roald) writes:
> swf@tools3teradata.com (Stan Friesen) writes:
>>Yes.  Kay is now on my (very short) auto-buy list.
>>[Along with David Brin].
> 
> I'm suddenly curious--what authors are on other people's "auto-buy" lists?
> Meaning that if you see one of their books and you don't have yet and the 
> money is in your pocket, you buy it--no further questions asked.
> 
> Myself, I've got David Brin and Lois McMaster Bujold.  I also have a couple
> of probationary candidates, like Norman Spinrad (RUSSIAN SPRING just blew
> me away) and Terry Pratchett. [...]

Jack Vance
Lloyd Biggle, Jr
Glen Cook
PC Hodgell
Lois McMaster Bujold
Emma Bull
Niven & Pournelle

-- 
"Science without religion is lame,
religion without science is blind." Albert Einstein   _/_
      _, .__  _  _,  _,      _   _, .__  ____  _  __  / o _ .__
     (_)_/ (_(/_(_)_(_)_    |_)_(_|_/ (_/ / /_(/_/ /_/_/_(/_/ (__
      /|         /|  /|    /|      ___ Gregg  Parmentier ___
     |/         |/  |/     |/ parmentier@iowasp.physics.uiowa.edu
Organization: Center for Machine Translation, Carnegie Mellon, Pittsburgh, PA
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
Date: Mon, 14 Dec 1992 18:44:53 -0500 
From: John Robert Leavitt <jl3j+@andrew.cmu.edu>
Subject: Author Polls: Michael Moorcock

Welcome to the author polls.  This week's author is Michael Moorcock.

INTRO to AUTHOR POLLS  (skip if you've participated before):

   Since no two readers can generally be expected to agree
   about the quality of a given author, an overall poll
   like that used in rec.arts.movies would be useless
   except as an incendiary.  However, there is often good
   agreement about which books by a given author are most
   worthy: thus this poll.

IF YOU MISSED AN EARLIER POLL and want to contribute, please
   feel free to DO SO.

BALLOT FORMAT  (read this once):

   You have four votes, one each at +3, +2, +1, and -1. You
   may vote for a work of any length, though you may wish
   to restrict yourself to the form in which the author was
   most prolific.

SAMPLE BALLOT (just a reminder):

   + 3 <vote for at most one work>
   + 2 <vote for at most one work>
   + 1 <vote for at most one work>
   - 1 <vote for at most one work>

SEND BALLOTS TO THIS ADDRESS.  If you prefer multiple choice,
you can obtain fairly complete bibliographies by anonymous ftp
from gandalf.rutgers.edu, in /pub/sfl/authorlists.

LAST WEEK'S RESULTS:

Charles Sheffield
-----------------
 The Nimrod Hunt                   +   7
 Sight of Proteus                  +   7
 Summertide                        +   7
 The McAndrew Chronicles           +   4
 <The Heritage Universe>           +   3
 Cold As Ice                       +   2
 Divergence                        +   2
 Between the Strokes of Night      +   2
 Proteus Unbound                   +   1
 My Brother's Keeper               +   1
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
 The Web Between the Worlds        -   1

PREVIOUS AUTHOR LISTS are available via Email from this address,
via anonymous ftp from any CMU CS machine (e.g., ftp.cs.cmu.edu
[128.2.206.173]), or through AFS in the directory:

         /afs/cs.cmu.edu/user/jrrl/public/authorpolls/

If accessing this directory through anonymous ftp, it is important to
"cd" to the directory using one operation, as some of the superior
directories on the path are protected from access by anonymous ftp.

PREVIOUS AUTHORS:
  Roger Zelazny
  Orson Scott Card
  Ursula K. Le Guin
  Larry Niven
  C.J. Cherryh
  Robert A. Heinlein
  David Brin
  Arthur C. Clarke
  Isaac Asimov
  John Brunner
  Frank Herbert
  Jack Vance
  Philip K. Dick
  Samuel R. Delany
  Greg Bear
  Robert Silverberg
  Philip Jose Farmer
  Poul Anderson
  Frederick Pohl
  Joe Haldeman
  Stanislaw Lem
  Cordwainer Smith
  Tanith Lee
  Gordon R. Dickson
  Walter Jon Williams
  Fritz Leiber
  Clifford D. Simak
  Harlan Ellison
  Gregory Benford
  Theodore Sturgeon
  George R. R. Martin
  Ray Bradbury
From: andy@ccwf.cc.utexas.edu (Andrew Hackard)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
Subject: Re: Heinlein and "wimmin"
Date: 17 Dec 92 01:37:56 GMT
Organization: The University of Texas at Austin, Austin TX

In article <11DEC92.15625014.0172@UNBVM1.CSD.UNB.CA> O2NY@UNB.CA (O2NY) writes:

>If there is any greater contribution to
>humankind than procreating, I would really like to know what it is.

[Andrew.  Bandwagon.  Thump.]

Pity that poor Jesus ben Joseph guy...he died childless.  What a wasted
life HE led.

>David Szemerda
>the cursed SF fan

I can tell.

--
--Andrew Hackard                                 If I spoke for UT, this post
  andy@ccwf.cc.utexas.edu                        would make even less sense.

                  "Hallelujah!  Noel!  be it Heaven or Hell,
                     On Christmas we get what we deserve."
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
From: naam@cecer.army.mil (Ramez Naam)
Subject: Re: Auto-buy lists
Organization: US Army Corps of Engineers Construction Engineering Research Labs
Date: Sat, 19 Dec 1992 03:33:47 GMT

Dan Simmons
David Wingrove
Melanie Rawn
Ian M Banks, as of just recently.
--
Ramez Naam
naam@terra.cecer.army.mil
From: CDOMS@VAX1.UMKC.EDU
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
Subject: Re: Gibson, electronic books
Date: 16 Dec 92 02:02:51 GMT

Just an observation.

I find it ironic that AGRIPPA is an "electronic book format ONLY" by
Gibson.  Yet, NEUROMANCER was written with the common typewriter, and
not a computer (word processing program).

Carol Doms
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
From: pnh@panix.com (Patrick Nielsen-Hayden)
Subject: Re: Child of an Ancient City?
Date: Thu, 17 Dec 1992 14:41:34 GMT
Organization: PANIX Public Access Unix, NYC

Actually, it will appear in paperback from Tor (we won the rights at
auction), but not until spring of 1994 at the earliest.

-- 
Patrick Nielsen Hayden      :     senior editor, Tor Books
pnh@panix.com : CIS 72701,1344 : GEnie PNH : opinions mine
From: dswartz@sw.stratus.com (Dan Swartzendruber)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
Subject: Re: Auto-buy lists
Date: 18 Dec 1992 18:34:04 GMT
Organization: Stratus Computer, Inc.
Distribution: world
NNTP-Posting-Host: redondo.sw.stratus.com

In article <1gt3ieINN6kc@transfer.stratus.com>, jmann@vineland.pubs.stratus.com (Jim Mann) writes:
> In article <1gt2boINN68l@transfer.stratus.com>  
> lmann@vineland.pubs.stratus.com (Laurie Mann) writes:

[deleted]

> Roger Zelazny used to be on the list.  Too many Amber books
> changed that.  

Me too.  As recently as 2 years ago, I'd have automatically bought *anything*
with his name on it.  Now, well, let's just say I don't have any of the Amber
books since the original set taking up shelf space.  IMO, not only did he jerk
us around by prolonging things unmercifully, the later books weren't even as
well written.  And I'm *still* waiting for him to finish the Changeling/Madwand
trilogy (at least it seemed obvious to me it was supposed to be a trilogy.
Either that or he is a complete sadist).

> --
> Jim Mann            
> Stratus Computer   jmann@vineland.pubs.stratus.com  
> 

-- 

#include <std_disclaimer.h>

Dan S.
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
From: charles@zip.eecs.umich.edu (Charles Jacob Cohen)
Subject: I think the last few pages are missing :(
Organization: University of Michigan EECS Dept., Ann Arbor, MI
Date: Wed, 16 Dec 1992 03:57:29 GMT

I was thouroughly enjoying Gordon R. Dickson's "None But Man", a very
old (1969) book, and I get towards the end and I think the last two
pages are missing!!!  HELP!  If anyone has this rare book in their
clutches, could they e-mail me? I have know idea if I'm just missing
a paragraph or several pages. Thanks - Chuck


-- 
"I do not feel obliged to believe that same God who endowed us with sense,
reason, and intellect, had intended for us to forgo their use." - Galileo
"I'm an engineer, not a dictionary!" - Me
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
From: gallim@stsci.edu (Jack Gallimore,P254)
Subject: Rama Revealed (was Reveiled)
Originator: gallim@icarus.stsci.edu
Organization: Space Telescope Science Institute
Date: Thu, 17 Dec 1992 02:49:39 GMT

From article <oz.724556011@yorku.ca>, by oz@nexus.yorku.ca (Ozan Yigit):
> Matthew P Wiener writes [regarding RWR]:
> 
>>Exactly.  It's called "sense of wonder", something science fiction
>>likes to pride itself on, but missing far too often.  RWR is one of
>>the ultimates, lifting most readers to an astonished awe and joy.
> 
> I agree whole-hartedly. I consider it one of the finest I have ever read,
> and I *distincly* remember the *lift* Matthew is referring to. It also was
> my first Clarke, and I remember standing on the grounds of York university,
> clutching the paperback that I had just finished reading, wondering how
> thank the person who had recommended it to me.
> 
>>I, for one, absolutely refuse to look at the sequels.
> 
> Same here.
> 
> .... oz

You are wise.  I've suffered permanent brain damage after reading
them.  Of course, some say it's been an improvement...

I just posted this to get rid of the gross spelling
error.  Please feel free to use this subject header in future
post....

-- 
         Jack Gallimore
        Academic Affairs
Space Telescope Science Institute
        gallim@stsci.edu
From: rhine@gdc.com (Helen Rhine)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
Subject: Heinlein and "wimmin"
Date: 18 Dec 92 15:26:00 GMT
Organization: General DataComm Ind. Inc., Middlebury, CT 06762


 I have just re-read 2 of Heinlein's books (_Puppet Masters_ and _The Door
into Summer_) after a gap of decades.
 I was _very_ surprised that they were as enlightened about women as they
were, especially since they were copyrighted in 1957, just about the time
that my high-school career-aptitude test results came back and I was told
that I could be a teacher or a secretary since _I scored so high in both
science and language skills_.
 I especially was pleased because the books didn't make a big deal of it.
It is as if it could just be assumed that women could be physically strong,
smart, heroic, somewhat leery of marriage, could be government agents and
engineers, etc.   There were no lengthy explanations or justifications for
this state, it simply was that way.
 And I cannot really fault him because of the women falling in love, marrying,
having babies, and, in general, being ecstatic about it because the men were
doing _exactly_ the same thing.  His male characters are just as dippy and
giddily romantic as the female ones when it comes to affairs of the heart (at
least in these 2 books).
 In the same vein, I read some of the lensmen books when I was a teenager;
when the girl was not allowed to become a lensman, I closed the book, returned
it to the library without finishing it, and never let a lensman book darken 
my psyche again.  

Regards,
Helen Rhine
I'm the NRA, and I vote


Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
From: tara@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (Lady Johanna Constantine)
Subject: Re: Auto-buy lists
Organization: University of Illinois at Urbana
Date: Fri, 18 Dec 1992 03:13:23 GMT
Keywords: tigana

Okay, here's my auto-buy list:

Neil Gaiman
Anne Rice (even if its dreck like Witching Hour, it still tends to be a 
fun read)
Jennifer Roberson (love her characters)
Marion Zimmer Bradley (not that she has written much recently, but edits lots)
Tom Deitz
Peter David (the only really good trek writer IMO) though I will admit, I
have never read any of him marvel comics.  I have a moral objection to
reading an X-book.  I just can't bring myself to do it.
Mark Olden (Eastern thriller/action books.  Loads of fun)


I will read anytjing in the TOR/ACE Fairy Tale Series edited by Terry Windling,
ad I am looking forward to picking up _Snow White, Blood Red_.  I also liked
the one Boardertown novel I have read thus far, _Elsewhere_.


that's my list.

LJC

-- 
Lady Johanna Constantine is going home for vacation from 12-18-92 until 1-10-93
tara@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu*I will miss you all (except Kevin Kline on r.a.animation) 
Founder of the Church of Our Lady of the Perpetually Clueless
Disclaimer: The U of I doesn't give a damn or blast WHAT I do
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written,soc.history