HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: markbr%radian@natinst.com (markbr)
Subject: Re: Documented Evidence
Date: Tue, 5 Jan 1993 19:02:51 GMT
Organization: n.o.y.b

Robert Mathieson's mention of mid-19th C mind-over-matter leads me to add this
to the thread: there was a attempt to make scientific some of this by mid-
century. When I used to work at an institution in Philly, there was, in the
library, a large number of antiqu books. I checked one out on animal magnetism,
published in 1854, that was a manual for doctors (early New Age thinking?).
It resembled laying on of hands (except you kept them an inch or so above the
body). It seemed to work, at least to some degree. As an anecdote, I offer that
I tried it on several people (holding the hands over the body, preferably as
they lay down, and passing the hands downward toward the feet; bring the hands 
out, and shake them, as though shaking off water from your fingertips, and
repeat). On *one*, I felt extra heat over their chest, as though I was feeling
extra heat radiation from their body. A day or two later, they came down with
a severe cold (or was it bronchitis? it's been a looong time). 

The point is that there is a clear relationship to the mind-over-matter stuff
from that time period.

	mark
From: lib1p@jane.uh.edu (Tammy Stark Blandino)
Newsgroups: alt.pagan
Subject: Re: Subject: Re: Meaning of pentagram, pentacle for You
Date: 4 Jan 1993 21:00 CST
Organization: University of Houston
Distribution: world
NNTP-Posting-Host: jane.uh.edu
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41    

In article <C09t7r.J67.1@cs.cmu.edu>, drake+@cs.cmu.edu (Drake) writes...
>lib1p@elroy.uh.edu (Tammy Stark Blandino) writes:
> 
>>between the States (Civil War to most).  The only real difference between
>>the KKK and Nazi's is that the KKK has never risen to political power like
>>the Nazi's did and the KKK often use religion as an excuse for their
>>existance and tactics.
> 
>The Nazi Party often used religion as an excuse as well.  Germany, note,
>was a Christian nation.  Hitler was commended as a defender of the faith
>by the Pope at the time.
> 

You're right.  Pardon me and let me rephrase my statement.

The only real difference between the KKK and Nazi's is that the KKK 
originated in the United States and the Nazi's originated in Germany.
Other than that (and maybe primary target and some tactics) they are
essentially the same.

Tammy the Nigger Lover according to her step-sister's husband
(and PROUD of it)
From: corun@access.digex.com (Corun MacAnndra)
Newsgroups: alt.pagan
Subject: Re: Space, the final frontier
Date: 4 Jan 1993 15:39:54 GMT
Organization: Express Access Online Communications, Greenbelt, MD USA
NNTP-Posting-Host: access.digex.com

In article <1993Jan3.041409.915@murdoch.acc.Virginia.EDU> pmw2c@csissun12.ee.Virginia.EDU (Paul Michael Wayner) writes:
>
>
>Another possible way of way of shooting objects into space is to use a
>gas-gun.
>It's a piece of SDI technology that is just recently being declassified.
>In a
>gas-gun a large chamber is filled with explosive gases and ingnited. 
>The 
>expanding gas is funneled into a constricting tube which increases the
>pressure
>of the explosion.  At the end of the tube you have the payload which is
>shot
>into space by the expanding gas.  This technique holds a lot of
>promise.
>
>					Paul Wayner

This is not a new idea, but only a reversed version of the old Atomic Rocket
idea from the fifties. The idea was to use a series of small atomic explosions
to propel a rocket into space. A small scale test was done using conventional
explosives. Needless to say, the radiation hazard makes the idea infeasable.
But it's like putting a firecracker under a tin can. It's also what the
folks who developed Star Trek used for the engines of the Enterprise. They
shoot a photon and an anti-photon into a chamber and use the energy released
from the resulting explosion to power the warp engines. Of course the matter
and anti-matter are encased in a magnetic bottle, and the whole technology
is about three hundred years beyond us.......but I digress. ;-)

If you want to see a model of the proposed Atomic Rocket, go to the Air and
Space Museum at the Smithsonian in Washington D.C.

Bb,
Corun

-- 
===========================================================================
    Corun MacAnndra    |
  Dark Horde by birth  |	Avid readers make novel lovers.
    Moritu by choice   |
Newsgroups: alt.pagan
From: marty@world.std.com (Marty M HaleEvans)
Subject: Re: Help with Songs...
Organization: Cicely Public Access UNIX, Cicely, AK
Date: Sun, 10 Jan 1993 04:17:27 GMT


>I've been looking for my copy of the Ladyslipper catalog of Women's
>music to post the address but no luck. They have a goodly amount of
>pagan stuff, mainly from pagan women. Anyone else have this?

I have a Ladyslipper catalog around here somewhere, but I can't find it now.
I'll try to find it again later if we need it. :-> I've never ordered anything
from them yet.

Let me also mention a store called Abyss here in MA that has a *great* 
mailorder catalog for music, books, etc. for pagans of most stripes. Again,
I'll post the address later if I can find it. I haven't ordered from there
yet because I hope to roadtrip to the store soon, but the catalog is
impressive.

My current favorite pagan singers are Goddess Gospel. Are they local? I don't
know, but I think their stuff is great. They are a gospel group for women's
religion; they do styles that range from traditional-sounding foot-stomping
gospel to Native American-sounding chants, all with Goddess and woman-centered
lyrics. Check them out if that sounds interesting to you.

Marty


=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=
"Seems like there ought to be a way we could look each other in the eye
To see we're all in this together, and put all thoughts of victory aside.
Seems like there ought to be a way we could turn this fear into trust;
No matter what you say, there has to be a way --
Every living thing is counting on us."      

Marty Hale-Evans                                 M   @   *   O   %   8   U
89 Mass. Ave., Ste. 199, Boston, MA 02115       \|/ \|/ \|/ \|/ \|/ \|/ \|/


Xref: sparky alt.pagan:15105 talk.religion.misc:25557 sci.skeptic:22195
From: bouche2@server.uwindsor.ca (BOUCHER DAVID            )
Newsgroups: alt.pagan,talk.religion.misc,sci.skeptic
Subject: Re: Critique of Gimbutas "Idyllic Goddess" Claims
Date: 8 Jan 1993 16:29:42 GMT
Followup-To: alt.pagan
Organization: University of Windsor, Ontario, Canada

>In article <1993Jan7.011122.27059@netcom.com> sheaffer@netcom.com (Robert Sheaffer) writes:

>	... all over the globe clay models very similar to [alleged "Goddess"
>        figurines] of the Neolithic are made as children's dolls.

20,000 years from now, when future archaeologists are excavating the remains
of our civilization, they will undoubtedly conclude that we lived in a 
matriarchal society and worshipped a female deity named "Barbie".  Plastic
lasts a long time.

- db
 

Newsgroups: alt.pagan
From: Albert-Lunde@nwu.edu (Albert Lunde)
Subject: Re: Quilts (was: Re: sowing bags)
Followup-To: alt.pagan
Originator: lunde@casbah.acns.nwu.edu
Reply-To: Albert-Lunde@nwu.edu (Albert Lunde)
Organization: Ministry of Silly Walks
Date: Mon, 4 Jan 1993 07:57:41 GMT

I wrote:
>Penrose Tiles have 5 fold symmetry on the average I think.  I'm not
>sure, but it may be possible to fill the space between pentagons or
>stars on various lattices with Penrose Tiles (they can fill the plane or leave
>various shaped "holes".

I just came upon a picture of Penrose tiles. There are two shapes,
both "diamond" shaped (parallograms with four equal sides).

In one case the acute angle appears to be one tenth of a circle (36
degrees), in the other, it is a fifth of a circle (72 degrees).

Each type can be arranged in a "star" (5 or 10 pointed), and
several combinations of the two make 10 sided regular polygons.

Getting back to the quilting idea, I would suggest trying to put pentacles
incsribed in 10-gons, and fill the space between with a "sea" of penrose
tiles.

-- 
 Albert Lunde         | Interfaith  |     *Y*Y*      "A branch on the
 Albert-Lunde@nwu.edu |  Bisexual   |      *Y*        tree of life"
                      |  Feminist   |.......|.........................
Newsgroups: alt.pagan
From: luikero@pcuf.fi (Lauri Kero)
Subject: Re: Meaning of pentagram, pentacle for You
Organization: The PC-users of Finland
Date: Mon, 4 Jan 1993 12:53:04 GMT

To_article_from: uphrrmk@Msu.oscs.montana.edu
 
> Thanks.. It does make me feel better, and I'm sorry if I got hostile
 
        Hey, forget it, all of you who got in a bad mood about it.
        I forgave all of you Pagans a second after the moment I realized
        who bad it is for you. It makes me feel very sad for you all, I
        hope things will get better as soon as possible.
 
 
>>>> They are a part of my soul. Like my hazel eye
>> What is this hazel eye?
> Oh, That....Tammy has hazel eyes, kinda blue-brown-green.
 
        Oh! I somehow got the idea that there is somekind of a magickal
        ...thing, wonder where I got that idea from.. ah, maybe because
        Tammy didn't write 'eye' in plural form.
 
> We had a real long discussion about them once, lots of fun and silly
> stuff.  I bet she looks cute with Hazel eyes.
 
        I bet anyone does! :-)
 
> P.S. Thank you so much for cheering me up a bit.
 
        No problemo, it's the least I can do. If only I could do more...
From: dhardin@bbn.com (Dawn Hardin)
Newsgroups: alt.pagan
Subject: Re: Documented Evidence
Date: 5 Jan 1993 14:51:02 GMT
NNTP-Posting-Host: bbn.com

It's been a long time since I've been so interested by a thread.  This is
something that I've been thinking about for several years now, but not
nearly as articulately or as knowledgeably as Robert and Amanda are
discussing it here.  My mother's family in Alabama had some strange 
traditions that I recognized when I was reading about African religions
(we're white) and I'd been wondering if these beliefs had maybe filtered
through slaves that the family had owned before the Civil War.  Different
from the type of alternative spirituality that you've been talking
about, but it led me to some of the same lines of thought and research
that you've been discussing in this thread.

SL500000@brownvm.brown.edu (Robert Mathiesen) writes:

> family stories, it is pretty clear that she had occult interests, and
> these interests are probably reflected in the rather unusual first names
> of her daughter (Zena) and her two granddaughters (Edris and Muriel).
> Edris, in particular, is the same as Idris, the Islamic Enoch-type
> figure (an antediluvian patriarch who never died, but was taken living
> up to heaven, and derived from that source all his arcane lore, which he
> passed on to his children and ultimatelty to all mankind); and the
> immediate source from which Zena took it was an occult novel by Marie
> Corelli.  Muriel is originally one of the cabalistic angels, and also
> was taken from Corelli.  I'm not sure what the source for Zena was.

This was something else that caught my interest.  I had a great-aunt
Zena, and this is only the second time that I've seen the name.  There's
Zenna Henderson the fantasy writer, but I've never seen it with only one
'n'.  My grandmother and other great-aunt were named Zoah and Zola.
At first I was disappointed that you didn't have a source for the name
Zena, but then I realized that my grandmother might know where her 
parents found it.  So I called her up last night (and I haven't called
her in about a year, so this thread was responsible for one solid good
deed, if nothing else) and asked her.  She said that it came from a 
book about Indians that her mother had read.  She couldn't remember the
title, the author, or the tribe that the Indians were supposed to be
from, but she was pretty sure that it was fiction instead of non-fiction.
My great-aunt was born in 1904, so it would have been published sometime
before that.  I'm going to call my mother sometime this week and ask
her if grandma might have mentioned the book to her sometime when her
memory was in better shape.  Of course, your great-grandparents may not
have had the same source that mine had, but it seems like it might fit 
the pattern of non-pagan alternative spirituality that you're talking
about.  Wish I could be more specific, but it's at least a fraction of
a source.

Dawn
"What if I had PMS all my life, and told you you looked just like Barney Fife,
What if I twisted it in like a knife, Until it made you cry? Until it made
you lie? Would you still love me?"
"What If..." by Bongwater
From: cortese@skid.ps.uci.edu (Janis Maria Cortese)
Subject: I boned again.
Newsgroups: alt.pagan
Organization: University of California, Irvine
Date: 12 Jan 93 03:04:28 GMT

Sorry about the bandwidth, BUT . . .

ailsa, I'm an idiot.  I have something I want to send to you
and I forgot your physical mail address.  Could you mail it
to me?

For the flamers here, I would mail her in private, but I can't
connect to her machine.

T'anks,
Janis 

Newsgroups: alt.pagan
From: patrick@rio-grande.is.rice.edu (Patrick L Humphrey)
Subject: Re: MMOH
Organization: THE university of Houston :-)
Date: Thu, 7 Jan 1993 17:15:31 GMT

On 7 Jan 1993 06:55 CST, lib1p@jane.uh.edu (Tammy Stark Blandino) said:
>NNTP-Posting-Host: jane.uh.edu
>News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41    

>In regards to Madeleine Murray O'Hare or O'Hair or whatever.  

>Listen guys, I spent a lot of time in my late teens and early twenties
>searching for my path.  One path I considered was atheism.  Now in my
>time in the church and later I came across a number of things concerning 
>MMOH.  My general OPINION of her has been that of a fanatic.  Since I'm 
>                  ^^^^^^^
>               (please note!)
>not out to fight AGAINST anybody and since MMOH holds nothing for me, I have
>since started ignoring her unless something comes my way that I must address.
>As a result I have forgotten a lot of the reasons why....its unimportant.

>IN MY OPINION MADELEINE MURRAY O'HARE IS A FANATICAL ATHEIST!!!!!!!!!!
>      ^^^^^^^
>I do not have to prove an opinion, and you all have not proven nor attempted
>to prove that she is not a fanatic.  All you have proven is that she gets
>results. Fanatics generally do...look at the PMRC and Fundamentalist Xtianity.

That's all fine and dandy.  The problem is, based on your remarks of a
couple of days ago, you appear to be basing a large part of your opinion on
Mrs. O'Hair on something that never happened.  (Did you see what Wayne Aiken
had to say about it?  It's a freaking *urban legend*, for crying out loud.)
That doesn't mean you hve to change your opinion, but it does mean that
there will be people who *will* recognize that you're possibly being just
the least bit misinformed with this particular opinion.

>In any case, The person's orginal statement was that they did not know of
>any fanatical atheist.  So I pointed out MMOH.  

>NOTE:  I AM NOT THE ONLY ONE WITH THIS FUCKING OPINION!!!!!!!!!!1

No one said you weren't -- I'm just pointing out the possibility you may be
basing it on a fallacy.  Your mileage, as always, may (and probably does)
vary.

>Tammy the exasperated

--PLH, who wants to see O'Hair weekly on Channels 14 *and* 22...:-)
--
From: vossdavi@student.msu.edu (Lisa Ann)
Newsgroups: alt.pagan
Subject: Re: the PENTACLES, people!!!!
Date: 12 Jan 93 02:38:44 GMT
Followup-To: alt.pagan
Organization: Chaotic Goods
NNTP-Posting-Host: cemmac28.cem.msu.edu

In article <93011.45407.L629159@LMSC5.IS.LMSC.LOCKHEED.COM>,
L629159@LMSC5.IS.LMSC.LOCKHEED.COM wrote:
> 
>
> 
>   I share your frustration at the ability of netters to ignore the
> importance of a post to pervert a thread into a discussion of
> whatever they individually find interesting.  That said...

> Al Moore
     
     My appologies for ignoring the original subject of the thread. I was
newly annoyed by the subject of ritual abuse when it was brought up.
Besides, Janis pretty much said it all. I am in full agreement and am in
the process of writing Ms. to give them my 2 cents. I probably should have
mentioned that, huh? Sorry, Janis.

     Blessings, Lisa Ann, or she who is easily led astray of the subject at
hand.

********************************************************************************
     I'd tell you what I thought about fogetfullness, but I can't remember
what I was going to say. _um?
********************************************************************************
Newsgroups: alt.pagan
From: jad44314@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (Janet A Dornhoff)
Subject: Herbs for torn tendon?
Organization: University of Illinois at Urbana
Date: Thu, 7 Jan 1993 21:22:40 GMT

A few weeks ago, I tore the tendon in my right bicep.  I saw the doc,
and he gave me an anti-imflammatory; the arm has improved, but it still
has a few twinges.  I know it's healing, but I'm wondering if anyone
can suggest an herbal remedy now that I'm out of the pills.  Anything
better than, or in addition to, aspirin?

[Remember, whenever posting about an herbal remedy, include what the
safe dosage/method of application is, and any side effects you've
heard of from that herb.  Herbs are drugs - know what you're doing or
don't do it!]

---------------------------------------------------------------------- 
jad44314@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu   Janet Dornhoff    God's too big to fit  
                                               inside of one religion!
----------------------------------------------------------------------
From: cortese@skid.ps.uci.edu (Janis Maria Cortese)
Newsgroups: alt.pagan
Subject: Re: Ways to connect to Gaia (Re: Ritualistic questions)
Date: 12 Jan 93 18:21:11 GMT
Organization: University of California, Irvine

>In article <1ij0mgINNgn1@leela.CS.ORST.EDU>, casspa@atlantis.CS.ORST.EDU (Paul Cass) writes...
>
>(...clip...)
>
>>What is needed is a new creation myth.  One that speaks to the issue 
>>of the Earth as a biological entity.  One that addresses the degradation 
>>of society and the biosphere.  In short, a creation myth that incorporates
>>humanity into the patterns of life on Earth rather than appointing
>>dominion over all else.


The first tenet of which should be . . .

The Earth is finite.
The Earth is finite.

Repeat after me . . .
The Earth is finite.
The Earth Is Finite.
THE EARTH IS FINITE . . .

Blessings,
Janis 
Newsgroups: alt.pagan,talk.religion.misc,alt.atheism,alt.slack
From: swaim@owlnet.rice.edu (Michael Parks Swaim)
Subject: Re: God's math accuracy was The meaning of "pagan"
Organization: Rice University
Date: Sat, 9 Jan 1993 22:54:30 GMT

In article <fXKMWZi@quack.sac.ca.us> pharvey@quack.sac.ca.us (Paul Harvey) writes:
>In article <1993Jan8.192559.29023@radian.uucp> 
>markbr%radian@natinst.com (markbr) writes:
>>Aw, c'mon. 3 is perfectly good enough for a scientific approximation. The
>>order of magnitude is even right!
>
>Exactly! As they say, one digit accuracy is close enough for God!
  OK. I'll bite. How many digits of accuracy would make you happy?
(For that matter, if the dimensions given are so bad given the accuracy
of the tools they had, how did it get built?)


-- 
Mike Swaim            | "101 Dalmations? Yeah I saw that."
swaim@owlnet.rice.edu | "You Did! REALLY? The same film?
Disclamer: I lie      | Let's stop driving! We must get out and jump
up and down and up and down and dance around and around!" Matt and Delerium
Newsgroups: alt.pagan,talk.religion.misc
From: altheimm@nextnet.csus.edu (Murray Altheim)
Subject: Re: The Christian Bible(s) -- Part I
Organization: California State University Sacramento
Date: Fri, 8 Jan 1993 02:06:06 GMT

In article <1993Jan7.184153.22238@radian.uucp> markbr%radian@natinst.com (markbr) writes:
>Y'know, yl'all, this is fascinating (does it mean that the xians split every
>500 years? Does this mean it'll happen again, somewhere in the next 50? 
>Is this why the Yugoslavians are busy tearing each other to shreds, and the
>Armenians & Azerbaijanis? (tacky alert) Does this demonstrate the wonderfulness
>of xianity? (end tacky alert)), but... is it really *relevant* to the main 
>subject of this newsgroup? Maybe it should be on another newsgroup, or email?
>
>	mark

Mark,

I can't disagree with you on the "suitableness" of a discussion on variations
in the Christian Church, except that many of us involved do consider our-
selves pagans, and this discussion wouldn't survive very long on 
soc.religion.christianity. And not because of their moderator, who is
very fair and impartial. The fundamentalist static is just too loud.

My personal interest is in the roots of Christianity, the Jewish Freedom
Movement (of which the Jesus and his crowd were probably involved), and
the Dead Sea Scrolls (and related texts). I've found most people are
interested to some degree in these topics because of their impact on not
only the pagan community, but the entire world. I hardly need state it. 

It also provides "ammunition" when discussing religion with Christians,
and can easily be tuned out -- it's only one thread. Kill it if you like.

Murray

-- 
Murray M. Altheim      "Ils ont l'orteil de Bouc, & d'un Chevreil l'oreille,
Instructional Consultant    La corne d'un Chamois, & la face vermeille
CSU, Sacramento          Comme un rouge Croissant: & dancent toute nuict
altheimm@csus.edu       Dedans un carrefour, ou pres d'une eau qui bruict."
From: mimir@hardy.u.washington.edu (Al Billings)
Newsgroups: alt.pagan
Subject: Re: Documented Evidence
Date: 4 Jan 1993 05:47:55 GMT
Organization: The Friends of Loki Society
NNTP-Posting-Host: hardy.u.washington.edu

In article <1993Jan4.020504.1435@mnemosyne.cs.du.edu> pciszek@nyx.cs.du.edu (Paul Ciszek) writes:
>I think the question being asked here, and I would also like to see it
>answered, is if there is any evidence of Wicca existing before Gardner.
>Family traditions are a separate issue, unless these traditions appear
>to be related to Wicca.

 To be brief, not really. What evidence there is (which is debatable)
points to something that perhaps pre-dates Gardner by a decade or so (The
Rosicrucian Theatre and the New Forest Coven), but it isn't really
verifiable that they were doing anything like what Gardner was.

Wassail,
Grendel Grettisson
From: troyce@pro-haven.cts.com (Troyce Wilson)
Newsgroups: alt.pagan
Subject: Re: Need Name of Song
Date: 12 Jan 1993 21:26:20 -0600
Organization: ProLine [pro-haven] - Pariahs' Haven BBS, 409/846-3177, 9600-300
NNTP-Posting-Host: cs.utexas.edu

"All that is gold does not glitter,
 Not all those who wander are lost;
The old that is strong does not wither,
 Deep roots are not reached by the frost,
From the ashes a fire shall be woken,
 A light from the shadows shall spring;
Renewed shall be blade that was broken,
 The crownless again shall be king."

That's by J.R.R. Tolkien, from THE LORD OF THE RINGS.  It's a poem that
Bilbo wrote about Aragorn.
---
Internet: troyce@pro-haven.cts.com
UUCP:     crash!pro-haven!troyce