From: spectre@uiuc.edu (Ian)
Newsgroups: soc.religion.islam
Subject: Results of some study about the killing issue.
Date: 27 Dec 92 23:33:47 GMT
Article-I.D.: life.1hlegrINNmkr
Reply-To: spectre@uiuc.edu
Organization: University of Illinois, Dept. of Comp. Sci., Urbana, IL
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Originator: gwydion@spiff.gnu.ai.mit.edu

Asalamulaikum.

I have been doing a bit of thinking about the matter of the Filipino
Christian in Saudi Arabia who is sentenced to die on Christmas Day, 1992,
for the crime of trying to spread his religion among people there.

I was disturbed about this incident because it seemed unfair to say that
Muslims may try to spread Islam to non-Muslims, but non-Muslims may not do
likewise with their religions (and in fact, should be killed if they try.)

An American Muslim convert friend of mine, Craig Paul <paul@ukanvax.bitnet>
and I were discussing and studying the Qu'ran about what it says about the
matter. Here's some of the results of our musings.
............................................................................
...............CHRISTIANS,.JEWS.AND.SABIANS.WHO.ARE.BELIEVERS...............
............................................................................
2:62. Surely those who believe, and those who are Jews, and the Christians,
and the Sabians, whoever believes in Allah and the Last day and does good,
they shall have their reward from their Lord, and there is no fear for them,
nor shall they grieve.

5:65. And if the followers of the Book had believed and guarded (against
evil) We would certainly have covered their evil deeds and We would
certainly have made them enter gardens of bliss

5:69. Surely those who believe and those who are Jews and the Sabians and
the Christians whoever believes in Allah and the last day and does good--
they shall have no fear nor shall they grieve.
.............................................................................
........................KILL.ONLY.THOSE.WHO.FIGHT.YOU........................
.............................................................................
4:90. Except those who reach a people between whom and you there is an
alliance, or who come to you, their hearts shrinking from fighting you or
fighting their own people; and if Allah had pleased, He would have given
them power over you, so that they should have certainly fought you;
therefore if they withdraw from you and do not fight you and offer you
peace, then Allah has not given you a way against them.

2:190. And fight in the way of Allah with those who fight with you, and do
not exceed the limits, surely Allah does not love those who exceed the
limits.

2:191. And kill them wherever you find them, and drive them out from whence
they drove you out, and persecution is severer than slaughter, and do not
fight with them at the Sacred Mosque until they fight with you in it, but if
they do fight you, then slay them; such is the recompense of the
unbelievers.
.............................................................................
..........................NO.COMPULSION.IN.RELIGION..........................
.............................................................................
2:256. There is no compulsion in religion; truly the right way has become
clearly distinct from error; therefore, whoever disbelieves in the Shaitan
and believes in Allah he indeed has laid hold on the firmest handle, which
shall not break off, and Allah is Hearing, Knowing.
.............................................................................
.........................CONVINCE.THEM.BY.GOOD.DEEDS.........................
.............................................................................
5:48. And We have revealed to you the Book with the truth, verifying what is
before it of the Book and a guardian over it, therefore judge between them
by what Allah has revealed, and do not follow their low desires (to turn
away) from the truth that has come to you; for every one of you did We
appoint a law and a way, and if Allah had pleased He would have made you
(all) a single people, but that He might try you in what He gave you,
therefore strive with one another to hasten to virtuous deeds; to Allah is
your return, of all (of you), so He will let you know that in which you
differed;
.............................................................................
..................KILL.PEOPLE.WHO.MIGHT.MAKE.YOU.DISBELIEVE..................
.............................................................................
4:89. They desire that you should disbelieve as they have disbelieved, so
that you might be (all) alike; therefore take not from among them friends
until they fly (their homes) in Allah's way; but if they turn back, then
seize them and kill them wherever you find them, and take not from among
them a friend or a helper.

5:32. For this reason did We prescribe to the children of Israel that
whoever slays a soul, unless it be for manslaughter or for mischief in the
land, it is as though he slew all men; and whoever keeps it alive, it is as
though he kept alive all men; and certainly Our apostles came to them with
clear arguments, but even after that many of them certainly act
extravagantly in the land.
.............................................................................
.................SOME.OF.MY.AMERICAN.MUSLIM.FRIEND'S.THOUGHTS................
.............................................................................
Some may try and claim that "mischief in the land" would include
proselytizing against Islam. Yet when Muhammad established himself in
Medinah his pact with other monotheistic tribes included freedom to practice
their religions.

I did some further checking and that pact states that no members of any of
the religions (including Islam) are to proselytize any other.

What Yusof Ali translated as "mischief in the land," the translation I have
uses "corruption on earth". Some understand "corruption on Earth" (validly)
as sedition (not just religious motives, but political motives to weaken the
tribe of Muslims as a  politically and economically powerful entity, much
different than today.)

4:89 appears to refer to a group who were on the Muslim side at the Battle
of Uhud, but who deserted. (Leader of whom was Abdullah b. Ubayy.) b. Ubayy
had counseled against fighting, but Muhammad persisted.  b. Ubayy withdrew
with 1/3 of the entire contingent.
.............................................................................
.............................MY.CLOSING.THOUGHTS.............................
.............................................................................
It seems like it would be somewhat of a contradiction to say "Kill people
who might make you disbelieve," given "Kill only people who fight you" and
"No compulsion in religion."

I'd like to hear the thoughts of other people here.

					Wassalam,
						Ian
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