HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: stank@cbnewsl.cb.att.com (Stan Krieger)
Subject: Re: Scouting Roundup
Organization: Summit NJ
Distribution: usa
Date: Fri, 14 Aug 1992 19:37:49 GMT

>>Perhaps we'll move on to useful discusssions on what to do with (boy,
>>Webelos, cub) scouts given that the school year will soon be starting.

As a Troop Committee member, one of my concerns is smoothing the
transition from 5th grade Webelos to the Troop.  Over the past
few years, the 5th graders have been woefully unprepared, to the
point that we need to retest the boys on everything that they were
supposed to have done to get the Arrow of Light (e.g., we can tolerate
a bit of fumbling over the Scout Law, but when they get bogged down
on "trustworthy", there's a problem).

How have other Troops and 5th grade Webelos Dens worked together?  Also,
in what month do you have crossover (or do the boys finish the year
with the pack and not join the Troop until the start of 6th grade)?
-- 
Stan Krieger                     All opinions, advice, or suggestions, even
AT&T UNIX System Laboratories    if related to my employment, are my own.
Summit, NJ
smk@usl.com
From: rickc@pogo.wv.tek.com (Rick Clements)
Newsgroups: rec.scouting
Subject: Re: SCouting and the age of the scout
Date: 18 Aug 92 00:00:13 GMT
Organization: Tektronix, Inc., Wilsonville,  OR.


In article <1992Aug17.004317.1817@drycas.club.cc.cmu.edu> naraht@drycas.club.cc.cmu.edu (Randolph J. Finder) writes:
>BSA has already split things somwhat with the overlap between Boy Scouts
>and Exploring. Would making BSA and Exploring so that the ages did not overlap
>and making up to First Class BSA awards and shifting Star Life and Eagle
>to Exploring Badges perhaps be better.

The Explorer program is very different than the Scout troops.  (Most of the
posts are any way.)  I joined the Explorer program as the change to the special
interest posts was going on.  Part of the reason for the change was to attract
boys who had never been in Scouting.  (They soon added girls as members.)

The post I was joined had 30 members when I joined.  Ten were former Scouts.
Eight of them were former Girl Scouts.  With only one other former Boys Scout,
we both lost interest in working on rank advancement.  I had only one other MB
to finish for my Eagle.  (I don't remember what it was now, but I had saved
an easy one for last.)

There are some posts which have a program similar to troops.  But, from what
I've seen BSA is trying to seperate them farther than from the troops.  They
can no longer elect OA members.  I'm not sure if they can work on rank any more
or not.

>"Service to others is the rent that we pay for living on the planet"(quote?)

I believe it was Mohammad Ali, in Time 1978.  (At least that's what the line
in my cookie file says.)
-- 
Rick Clements (RickC@pogo.WV.TEK.COM)
Newsgroups: rec.scouting
From: glenski@cray.com (Joe Glenski)
Subject: Re: Address for No. Wisconsin Canoe Base
Organization: Cray Research Inc
Distribution: usa
Date: 17 Aug 92 19:03:54 CDT

In his recent posting <23721@oasys.dt.navy.mil>, Harry Ford asked if
anyone had information on the Northern Wisconsin National Canoe Base
in Bolder Junction, WI.

That BSA high adventure base was closed about 5 years ago.  (No wonder
your mail was returned :-)

Since the Maine National High Adventure base was closed at the end of 
last year, there are now only three BSA National High Adventure bases 
in operation, (although many councils run their own local ones, and
some groups of councils will run area ones).  The three remaining 
national ones are: Philmont Scout Ranch, the Florida Sea Base, and 
the Northern Tiers High Adventure Base.  

(Northern Tiers is a relatively new name for what was most recently 
called the Charles L. Sommers Canoe Base.)

------------------------------------------------------------------
Joe Glenski (glenski@cray.com) 
Cray Research, Inc.  655F Lone Oak Drive, Eagan, MN  55121  USA
Xref: sparky rec.scouting:2491 alt.politics.homosexuality:5456 alt.atheism:15475
From: cdt@sw.stratus.com (C. D. Tavares)
Newsgroups: rec.scouting,alt.politics.homosexuality,alt.atheism
Subject: Re: BofA thinks the BSA allows gay scouts
Date: 20 Aug 92 23:16:24 GMT
Followup-To: rec.scouting
Organization: Stratus Computer, Inc.

In article <2233@catfish.ocpt.ccur.com>, hilding@catfish.ocpt.ccur.com (Hilding Holroyd) writes:

> "Recently, the Boy Scouts of America has been attacked by special
> interest groups who claim that we will not allow them to participate
> in the BSA because of their differences with our long-held standards.
> 
> They're absolutely correct.

> "Scouting has NEVER denied the rights of homosexuals to their life
> style, NEVER said that atheists could not maintain their viewpoints.

> "Parents and youth become active in Scouting because they know what
> the BSA stands for, and they want these values for their families.
> We pledge to you and them that we will continue to fight for
> these priciples."
> [quoted from Scouting Magazine, Sept. 1992]


In article <1992Aug20.162241.1023@m.cs.uiuc.edu>, kadie@herodotus.cs.uiuc.edu (Carl M. Kadie) writes:
> Here is the Bank of America press release:
> 
>    SAN FRANCISCO--(BUSINESS WIRE)--BankAmerica Corporation said today
> that, as a result of a clarification of the membership policy of the
> Boy Scouts of America, the organization would once again be eligible
> for charitable donations.
> 
>    BankAmerica said that its understanding, based on communications
> which it initiated with the national leadership of the organization,
> is that the opportunity to join the Boy Scouts of America is open to
> all boys who subscribe to the Scout oath and law, Cub Scout promise or
> Explorer code (Exploring includes teenage girls).
> 
>    Boy Scouts of America, being open to all boys, which is the classit
> is designed to serve, meets the bank's contributions criteria...
> The Boy Scouts' eligibility for charitable contributions
> from BankAmerica is determined by its policy regarding youth
> membership.
> 
>    CONTACT:  Bank of America Corporate Public Relations
> 
>           Peter Magnani, 415/953-2418
>           John Keane, 415/622-2773


Thank you both for posting these.  I have a call in to Mr. Magnani to
discuss this contradiction with him.  (His secretary tells me that I am
far from the only one.)  I have also requested a copy of the communication
from the national leadership.
-- 

cdt@pdp.sw.stratus.com      --If you believe that I speak for my company,
OR cdt@vos.stratus.com        write today for my special Investors' Packet...
From: ajj@ecs.soton.ac.uk (Andy Jackson)
Newsgroups: rec.scouting
Subject: Re: HELP- History of Scout Promise
Date: 21 Aug 92 15:12:18 GMT


Hi Folks,

	In the UK the promise and law are as follows :

	On my honour I promise that I will do my best
	To do my duty to God and the Queen
	To help other people 
	And to keep the Scout Law.

	A Scout is to be trusted
	A Scout is loyal
	A Scout is friendly and considerate
	A Scout has courage in all difficulties
	A Scout is a brother to all Scouts
	A Scout makes good use of his time 
		and is careful of posessions and property
	A Scout has respect for himself and for others.

	The spelling and slight errors (if they occur) are my own. I come from 
time when we had to remember this for investiture. They get to "repeat after
me" now. Not quite as good in my opinion, but I must be old (26!).

Andy Jackson
ajj@uk.ac.soton.ecs

ASL 25th Northam Sea Scouts, Southampton, UK.
Newsgroups: rec.scouting
From: edelheit@smiley.mitre.org (Jeff Edelheit)
Subject: Re: Scouting
Organization: The MITRE Corporation, McLean, VA
Date: Wed, 12 Aug 1992 17:55:32 GMT

In article <1992Aug12.144428.20889@msuinfo.cl.msu.edu> lemek@egr.msu.edu (John P. Lemek) writes:
>In article <14011@gazette.bcm.tmc.edu> rchafetz@cephalo.neusc.bcm.tmc.edu (Ross Chafetz) writes:
>>
>>
>>
>>I think this group has lost that scouting spirit. :)
>>
>>Ross
>
>I agree.  I thought that we had gotten off the argument about Levis about
>a month ago.  I guess I was wrong(too trusting I guess).
>
Perhaps we'll move on to useful discusssions on what to do with (boy,
Webelos, cub) scouts given that the school year will soon be starting.

Jeff Edelheit		email:  edelheit@mitre.org
The MITRE Corporation	voice:  (703) 883-7586
7525 Colshire Drive	FAX:	(703) 883-1397
McLean, VA   22102
Newsgroups: rec.scouting
From: wjturner@iastate.edu ()
Subject: Re: HELP- History of Scout Promise
Organization: Iowa State University, Ames, IA
Date: Fri, 21 Aug 1992 20:07:21 GMT

>
>>Interesting.  In the U.S. it is (please excuse punctuation):
>
>>On my honor, I will do my best, to do my duty,
>>to God and my country,

Don't forget "and to obey the Scout LAW"!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

>>to help other people at all times,
>>to keep myself physically fit, mentally awake, and
>>morally straight.
>
>South Africa's is:
>
[DELETED]
>
>What about the Scout Law? We have ten, which we think are the
>usual ones, summed up by:
>
>Trusty, loyal and helpful,
>Brotherly, courteous, kind,
>Obedient, smiling and thrifty,
>Clean in body and mind.

In the US the Scout Law is:

  A scout is trustworthy, loyal, helpful, friendly, courteous, kind,
  obedient, cheerful, thrifty, brave, clean, and reverent.


William Turner
ASM, Troop 182, Ankeny, Iowa, Mid-Iowa Council, BSA
Eagle Scout class of 1987
Vigil Honor member, Mitigwa Lodge #450, Order of the Arrow


-- 
Will Turner,  N0RDV		 --------------------------------
wjturner@iastate.edu		| Whatever the mind can conceive |
twp77@isuvax.iastate.edu	| and believe, it can achieve.   |
TURNERW@vaxld.ameslab.gov	 --------------------------------
From: lemek@egr.msu.edu (John P. Lemek)
Newsgroups: rec.scouting
Subject: Re: Scouting
Date: 12 Aug 92 14:44:28 GMT
Reply-To: lemek@egr.msu.edu (John P. Lemek)
Distribution: usa
Organization: Michigan State University
Originator: lemek@kira.egr.msu.edu

In article <14011@gazette.bcm.tmc.edu> rchafetz@cephalo.neusc.bcm.tmc.edu (Ross Chafetz) writes:
>
>
>
>I think this group has lost that scouting spirit. :)
>
>Ross

I agree.  I thought that we had gotten off the argument about Levis about
a month ago.  I guess I was wrong(too trusting I guess).

+----------------------------------+-----------------------------------------+
| John P. Lemek                    |  The Standard Disclaimer                |
| email: lemek@egr.msu.edu         |                                         |
|        lemek@cps.msu.edu         |                                         |
| Snail                            |                                         |
| Mail : A204 Bryan Hall           |                                         |
|        Michigan State University |                                         |
|        East Lansing, MI 48825    |                                         |
+----------------------------------+-----------------------------------------+
From: kadie@herodotus.cs.uiuc.edu (Carl M. Kadie)
Newsgroups: rec.scouting
Subject: Re: <None>
Date: 18 Aug 92 21:25:58 GMT
Organization: University of Illinois, Dept. of Comp. Sci., Urbana, IL

afd@bellcore.com (Alex F. Dietz) writes:

[..]
>This newgroup, however, is for the exchange of
>BSA program ideas.
[...]

That is not what the charter says. This newsgroup is not restricted to
BSA topics. It certainly is not restricted to pro-BSA viewpoints.

- Carl
--
Carl Kadie -- kadie@cs.uiuc.edu -- University of Illinois at Urbana-Champaign
Newsgroups: rec.scouting
From: fell@sol.UVic.CA (Stuart Fell)
Subject: Re: <None>
Organization: University of Victoria, Victoria B.C. CANADA
Date: Tue, 18 Aug 92 23:15:59 GMT

In article <1992Aug18.182639.11327@porthos.cc.bellcore.com> afd@bellcore.com writes:
>
>I have to agree with cataldi (the original poster) on this one.  There are
>forums for discussing the material brought up by G. Skillman, but 
>rec.scouting is not one of them.  Perhaps there is a need for a newsgroup
>that discusses BSA policy.  This newgroup, however, is for the exchange of
>BSA program ideas.  I'd like to see it return to that point.
>
>-A Dietz
>Eagle class of 1979

I would like to know when this group became officially for BSA program
ideas?  I thought this was supposed to be an international scouting
conference...

Stuart Fell 
Newsgroups: rec.scouting
From: sayano@micro.caltech.edu (Masahiro Sayano)
Subject: National Flag Disposal (USA)
Organization: California Institute of Technology, Pasadena
Date: Thu, 20 Aug 1992 16:33:51 GMT

Greetings, Fellow Scouters!

I've read some of the postings on disposing of the American flag, and I'd
like to share my experiences on the matter.

When I was a scout, at one summer camp, a worn-out flag was first saluted,
the Pledge of Allegiance recited, and, while everyone held their salute, the
flag was burned in the campfire.  (The color guards were wearing white gloves,
and these were burned, too.)  It was very dignified and solemn.

Years later, when I came into posession of a worn-out flag, I tried to find
out what the accepted, traditional disposal method was.  I called the U.S.
armed forces recruiting offices and nearby bases, and this is what I got:

Army (Captain):  I don't know; I've never seen one done.  Why don't you just
                 seal it in a box and throw it out?  I don't know if you can
                 burn one . . . .
Navy (Lieutenant):  The Navy doesn't fly that many flags, and what gets worn
                    out from sea duty just gets sent back to the base.  I
                    assume they are destroyed by burning . . . .
Air Force (Lieutenant):  (said about the same thing as the Navy officer)
Marine Corps (Gunnery Sergeant):  Well, I've been in the Corps for some years,
                                  but I've never seen one done.  But, if I were
                                  to do one, I would first put everyone at
                                  attention, present arms (salute), destroy the
                                  flag in a wood fire, wait until the flag was
                                  completely destroyed, order arms (back to
                                  attention), and then dismiss the troops.

Well, there's hope for the armed forces yet --- at least the Gunnery Sergeant
knew what to do, or at least think about how to do it.  We ended up doing as
the sergeant said, but we added the Pledge of Allegiance, too.

Oh, by the way, what do other nations do when they want to destroy or retire
a worn-out flag?

Yours in Scouting,

Mas Sayano
Assistant Scoutmaster, Troop 738
Los Angeles Area Council
Boy Scouts of America
Newsgroups: rec.scouting
Subject: Re: <None> (purpose of newsgroup)
From: jkusters@zeus.calpoly.edu (Chrome Jester)
Date: Fri, 21 Aug 1992 02:41:56 GMT
Organization: California Polytechnic State University, San Luis Obispo

->I for two would like to see a bit more of the stuff that keeps most of us
->in scouting and a forum for communicating the ideas to keep kids
->interested.  I'm sure many scouters around the world have ideas they'd like
->to share.

I must be missing something.  What is keeping you from discussing ideas like
that?  Is there some ban on this channel that says only social issues can be
discussed?  If you're interested in that topic, then start posting about it.

JOhn.

-- 
/-John A Kusters, jr.----------------------------------------------------______
| jkusters@ares.calpoly.edu & phule@bbs.fubarsys.com                     \    /
Silence keeps us all in darkness, We can't change things overnight;       \  /
But we can shed a little light, Be Political not Polite! -Romanovsky & Phillips
From: choffman@adobe.com (Charles Hoffman)
Newsgroups: rec.scouting
Subject: Re: Scouting Roundup
Date: 13 Aug 92 15:48:20 GMT
Organization: Adobe Systems Incorporated

In article <1992Aug12.175532.24390@linus.mitre.org> edelheit@smiley.mitre.org (Jeff Edelheit) writes:
>Perhaps we'll move on to useful discusssions on what to do with (boy,
>Webelos, cub) scouts given that the school year will soon be starting.
>
My Webelos den was active all summer, including full attendance 
at the Distric Day Camp.  We are putting together a slide show of the boys
activities (swimming, rowing, snorkling, collecting rock samples, collecting
leaf samples, hiking, and just messing around having fun).  This plus a static
display of some of their collections will be part of the in school 
presentation.  

This is even more effective with the younger boys who will see their school 
friends having a great time Scouting.

At our actual Roundup night we make sure that we have small craft activities
for siblings to do, and someone to lead the future Cubs in games.  This allows
the parents to talk to the Pack leadership in a quiet (well almost!) setting.
As we brought 20 new Cubs and 24 new Tigers in last year, this advance 
planning was all that allowed any control over the chaos.  80% of those who
attended the Roundup decided to join the pack.

Charles Hoffman,                       You are not judged by how much you love 
Weblos Den leader, Eagle Scout '74     but by how much you are loved by others
Newsgroups: rec.scouting
From: dadams@cray.com (David Adams)
Subject: Levis' Drop like Dayton-Hudson? 
Reply-To: dadams@cray.com
Organization: Cray Research, Inc.
Date: 17 Aug 92 15:19:29 CDT


When the Dayton Hudson Corp. decided to stop contributing to Planned
Parenthood about 2 years ago, here in MN, the pro-choice people raised 
a big ruckus and threatened to boycot until Dayton-Hudson broke down 
and gave in and started giving again.  (Which taught the MCCL people
that they had to threaten a boycott too.)

So how does that differ from the BSA people boycotting Levi's.

It's all just a big political football.

---
--David C. Adams  Statistician  Cray Research Inc.  dadams@cray.com
___________________________________________________________________
       member--Minnesotans for Global Warming.
From: kadie@dante.cs.uiuc.edu (Carl M. Kadie)
Newsgroups: rec.scouting
Subject: "Scouting's values merit her pledge"
Date: 19 Aug 92 21:57:33 GMT
Article-I.D.: m.1992Aug19.215733.16456
Organization: University of Illinois, Dept. of Comp. Sci., Urbana, IL

Sunday's Chicago Tribune included a column about the BSA. It was on
page 1 of section 2 (Chicagoland), final Midwest edition.  The column
was by Eric Zorn.

It tells of Lyn Niemann, a Naperville housewife, who has established a
Boy Scout Fund to help the replace the money that the BSA will no
longer get from the United Way. The columnist says the drive "deserves
the enthusiastic support of those who share the values, and
prejudices, of Scouting."

The columnist says, a former scout, says "The [BSA] membership
requirements, however, strike me as unnecessary, narrow-minded and, in
their enforcement, cruel." He says that Lyn Niemann says "'They
reflect good family values I also believe in'".

He continues "Where Niemann and I agree, however, is in the belief
that citizens who wish to support Scouting should give money to the
Scouts. 'These are private ideas,' as she put it, 'and they should be
privately funded.'"

"Exactly. The United Way of Chicago, though it is not a public
institution as such, ask for donations while waving the banner of
equal opportunity and fairness to all. I no more want it giving money
to a group that expressly excludes gays and those who do not wish to
commit on the biggest question of all than I want it funding any other
group, no matter how noble its deeds, that excludes obese people, for
example, or those who do not believe in the divinity of Jesus."

He says that when he asked the Scouts why they don't decline money
from organization that prohibit the BSA's exclusionary practices,
Chicago Council spokeswoman Susan Teplinski said "'It would be
wonderful to be that wealthy.'"

As as aside he says "The Girl Scouts also wouldn't be involved because
they 'never discriminate against anyone on the basis of these private
matters,' according to Chicago spokeswoman Thelma Walker."

- Carl
--
Carl Kadie -- kadie@cs.uiuc.edu -- University of Illinois at Urbana-Champaign
From: kati@glnserv.UUCP (Lady Dragon)
Newsgroups: rec.scouting
Subject: Song
Date: Thu, 20 Aug 92 20:33:30 CDT
Organization: Vermi-net, Houston, Tx. 77098

Here's a nice little song with two ways to sing it:

Hello
-----

I love to hear the word Hello,
Wherever I may go.
It's full of friendship
And good cheer
And warms the heart up so.

Hello, Hello, Hello, Hello,
Hello, Hello, Hello...

When e'er we meet
Like friends let's greet
Each other with Hello.

Hello, Hello, Hello, Hello,
Hello, Hello, Hello...

(sung to the tunes of: Auld Lang Syne -or-
Coca Cola's I'd Like to Teach the World to Sing)

* * email address: nuchat!xcluud!glnserv!kati * Houston, Texas, USA, Earth * *




Newsgroups: rec.scouting
From: dsugar@nyx.cs.du.edu (Dave Sugar)
Subject: Re: Scouting Roundup
X-Disclaimer: Nyx is a public access Unix system run by the University
	of Denver for the Denver community.  The University has neither
	control over nor responsibility for the opinions of users.
Organization: Nyx, Public Access Unix at U. of Denver Math/CS dept.
Distribution: usa
Date: Fri, 14 Aug 92 22:20:47 GMT

In article <1992Aug14.193749.18092@cbnewsl.cb.att.com> stank@cbnewsl.cb.att.com (Stan Krieger) writes:
>>>Perhaps we'll move on to useful discusssions on what to do with (boy,
>>>Webelos, cub) scouts given that the school year will soon be starting.
>
>As a Troop Committee member, one of my concerns is smoothing the
>transition from 5th grade Webelos to the Troop.  Over the past
>few years, the 5th graders have been woefully unprepared, to the
>point that we need to retest the boys on everything that they were
>supposed to have done to get the Arrow of Light (e.g., we can tolerate
>a bit of fumbling over the Scout Law, but when they get bogged down
>on "trustworthy", there's a problem).
>
>How have other Troops and 5th grade Webelos Dens worked together?  Also,
>in what month do you have crossover (or do the boys finish the year
>with the pack and not join the Troop until the start of 6th grade)?
>-- 
>Stan Krieger                     All opinions, advice, or suggestions, even
>AT&T UNIX System Laboratories    if related to my employment, are my own.
>Summit, NJ
>smk@usl.com


Some things that we used to do in the troop was to have a Den Chief from the
troop to the Webelos den.  Then when the Webelos came over to the troop this
Den Chief would become the new scouts patrol leader.  Mainly this kept them
together so they wouldn't get lost in the troop, they could be in a patrol
with people they know.  Then after a little while a patrol leader would be
elected from one of the patrol so the Den Chief wasn't the patrol leader
any more.  I was a Den Chief for a while and to me this seemed to work
pretty well.  It might take a little bit more from the person but if they
are willing to do it, and are good at it I guess it's better than someone
who doesn't really care etc..

Dave Sugar				ASM T743
udsugar@mcs.drexel.edu			Randallstown, MD
dsugar@nyx.cs.du.edu
Newsgroups: rec.scouting
From: philipla@microsoft.com (Phil Lafornara)
Subject: Re: <None>
Date: 19 Aug 92 20:35:08 GMT
Organization: Microsoft Corporation

In article <1992Aug17.185621.1@heroes> castaldi@heroes writes:
>
>LETS START A NEWSGROUP CALLED BITCH.SCOUTING.  ALL YOU GUYS THAT HAVE HI-
>JACKED REC.SCOUTING CAN GO THERE! I THOUGHT THE REC. STOOD FOR RECREATION!
>
>IF YOU WANT TO POST CAMPFIRE SONGS, SKITS, TROOP ADMIN INFO, SCOUT CAMP
>REVIEWS, EAGLE PROJECTS, QUESTIONS, RANK ADVANCEMENT, JAMBOREE ETC.. , THIS IS
>THE PLACE!  AS FAR AS I AM CONCERNED, AND I BET 99% OF THE PEOPLE WHO READ
>THIS, ALL THAT OTHER STUFF IS WASTED DISK SPACE.

      As has been said many times before, there is ample bandwidth
available for both.  If you don't feel like reading the debate
articles, then don't read them.
      By the way - the caps-lock key is likely somewhere towards the
left of your keyboard.

					-Phil
 


-- 
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
Phil Lafornara         				1 Microsoft Way         
philipla@microsoft.com				Redmond, WA 98052-6399 
Note:  Microsoft doesn't even _know_ that these are my opinions. So there.
Newsgroups: rec.scouting