HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: steve@cse.fau.edu (Steve Smith)
Newsgroups: alt.config,alt.rave
Subject: read my lips, no new {techno|rave} groups
Date: 18 Aug 92 17:20:20 GMT
Organization: Florida Atlantic University, Boca Raton, FL, USA

In article <16ov3jINNo4e@agate.berkeley.edu> bbehlen@soda.Berkeley.EDU (Vitamin B (Brian Behlendorf)) writes:
>Huh?  You must be one of those strange people who thinks that the only music
>played at raves is wham-bam-side-splitting-biohazardous-"hardcore"-140bpm

Well, I am not.  

I think the whole issue here is that there are people who want to discuss
techno seriously without the party aspect and there are people who want
to discuss the partying.  This would (and did) lead one (me) to believe
that perhaps there is a need for a separate group.  I don't see this as
the case anymore.

The traffic here certainly doesn't warrent a new group.  And I don't think
there are too many people unwilling to wade through party news to get to
techno discussions... in fact most people here seem to be intently interested
in both.  Hence I would vote no to any new group creation.

>I don't know if you'd allow any of those types
>of music to be on rec.music.techno.

I haven't defined techno.  I think techno has a very wide definition and
there is room for discussion of various sorts of music that would fall into
the techno related genre.

>>I think the two topics intersect heavily but neither one is a
>>subtopic of the other.  Hence the need for ttwo groups with different
>>topics.  
>
>Bzzt.  If the music is an integral part of the rave experience, as it is, then
>it should be discussed on alt.rave, or else alt.rave will digress into all the
>other rave non-music topics...

I was thinking that there should be a place for both music and non music
discussions but I don't see the need for this anymore.

>Really, I think the best way to solve all this:

Is to keep the traffic on alt.rave but if you want to discuss DJ topics
w/o the party info (I assume) by all means:

>bpm-request@andrew.cmu.edu
>Subject: Subscribe
>
>It's relatively low volume, but if people start joining maybe we can get 
>more topics discussed...
>
>	Brian
-- 
      ___________________________________________________________
     (_____    |   (______    Internet: steve@cse.fau.edu
___________)___|__________)   Bitnet:   S_SMITH@FAUVAX
From: dan@cubmol.bio.columbia.edu (Daniel Zabetakis)
Newsgroups: alt.config
Subject: Re: Alt.feminism
Date: 17 Aug 92 21:46:30 GMT
Organization: Columbia University, Dept. of Biological Sciences.

In article <4855@blue.cis.pitt.edu.UUCP> tjw+@pitt.edu writes:
>
>Alt.feminism is an unmoderated group for the discussion of feminism and
>issues relating to feminism.
>
   I, for one, am against it. In brief, I don't see how this group would be
any more than Yet Another Flamewar Group. With s.men and s.women, and also
talk.rape and talk.abortion, I don't see the need for alt.feminism. It 
seems to me that a.f will have pretty much an overlapping content with these
groups and others. What aspect of the content of alt.feminism will be
different from these groups?

DanZ

-- 
This article is for entertainment purposes only. Any facts, opinions,
narratives or ideas contained herein are not necessarily true, and do
not necessarily represent the views of any particular person.
From: ahawks@nyx.cs.du.edu (wedge)
Subject: Re: alt.tv.talk, alt.tv.mtv
Organization: Nyx, Public Access Unix @ U. of Denver Math/CS dept.
Date: Sun, 23 Aug 92 02:45:12 GMT


Seems the discussion (what little there was) surrounding the proposal
for "alt.tv.talk" (possibly an "alt.tv.talk.*" hierarchy) seems to've
died...Same with alt.tv.mtv....

Is this just a lack of interest, or is the topic so benine that noone
really cares either way (or both?)....

--
 ahawks@nyx.cs.du.edu   FutureCulture E-List: [future-request@nyx.cs.du.edu]
 andy (hawkeye)         new edge, technoculture, cyberpunk, virtual reality,
                        raves, etc. Home of the famous :) FutureCulture FAQ!
 
Newsgroups: alt.config,alt.rave
From: davisonj@bnr.ca (John Davison)
Subject: Re: proposal for ALT.MUSIC.TECHNO - no
Summary: alt.rave is sufficient
Keywords: techno industrial
Organization: Bell-Northern Research, Richardson, Tx.
Date: Sat, 15 Aug 1992 20:32:06 GMT

In article <16844A8C5.EIVERSO@cms.cc.wayne.edu> EIVERSO@cms.cc.wayne.edu writes:
>A big BTW: please remove alt.rave from the newsgroups line in subsequent
>discussions.

        (Can't Mr./Mrs./Ms. "EIVERSO@cms.cc.wayne.edu" do it himself?)
 
Now down to the relevant stuff:

        I feel that the establishment of alt.music.techno would not constitute
a substantial improvement to the USENET at this time, as it would neither cover
new ground nor appreciably relieve current newsgroups of "information overload"
or excessive topical diversity.  It would, on the other hand, unnecessarily
increase USENET bandwidth, due to an increased number of cross-postings to
newsgroups such as alt.cyberpunk, alt.rave, and rec.music.industrial.

        Renaming "alt.rave" to "rec.music.rave" or "rec.music.techno" may be
advisable since "alt" newsgroups have historically had less public access than
the "rec" groups (or so I am led to believe), but splitting this already
specialized newsgroup into even more specialized subgroups is justified neither
by the traffic flow (which is relatively small) or the diversity of the subject
matter (which is not excessive at this time).


-- 
NOTE: The opinions and other information contained herein are not to be
      construed as representative of Northern Telecom or any of its
      subsidiaries.  Please direct all electronic mail to 
                   =======> davisonj@ecn.purdue.edu. <=======
Newsgroups: alt.config,alt.folklore.urban
From: senetza@xi.uleth.ca (Len Senetza)
Subject: Re: proposal for alt.folklore.ghost-stories
Organization: University of Lethbridge
Date: 13 Aug 92 21:55:06 GMT

In <1992Aug12.214402.17681@javelin.sim.es.com> pashdown@javelin.sim.es.com (Pete Ashdown) writes:
>senetza@xi.uleth.ca (Len Senetza) writes:
>>It sounds like a good idea.  But (there's always one of these), what
>>about using/expanding alt.horror?  Maybe alt.horror.ghosts?

>Because that would tend to give a fictionalized side to the postings.  I would
>like to see accounts or stories with a factual base.  I saw a ghost once and
>there wasn't anything horrific about it at all.

Good point.  Then, yeah, let's do alt.folklore.ghost-stories.

>-- 
>			  I'm not wearing any pants.

And under my clothes, I'm naked.
--
  +-----------------------------------------------------------------------+
  |  Leonard Senetza            |  E-Mail: senetza@alpha.uleth.ca         |
  |  Academic Consultant        |          senetza@hg.uleth.ca            |
  |  University of Lethbridge   |   Phone: 403-329-5162 FAX: 403-382-7108 |
  |  Lethbridge, Alberta        |-----------------------------------------|
  |  Canada, eh?                |  Disclaimer: Why should I tell _them_?  |
  |  T1K 3M4                    |    What they don't know, can't fire me. |
  +-----------------------------------------------------------------------+
From: maas@dutiws.tudelft.nl (Frank Maas)
Newsgroups: alt.config
Subject: Re: rmgroup alt.graphics
Date: 12 Aug 92 09:53:16 GMT
Organization: Delft University of Technology

Refering to the alt.graphics war:

And by the way, Jef isn't playing net.god (there is only one :) ), but he
is doing the right thing. At this moment the charter for comp.graphics is 
the same as that for alt.graphics. However, those who post in alt.graphics 
have a fast less distribution than the comp-gr-posters.
Therefore I sincerely hope that the child who is posting the fake newgroup
messages (note that it isn't simply a newgroup, but a faked one, suposedly
sent by Jef) stops this nonsense. If he wants to create alt.graphics _for a 
different charter_ that's fine, but do it properly.

With Regards,

Frank Maas 	(e-mail: maas@dutiws.,twi.tudelft.nl)
(conductor of alt.graphics survey)
Newsgroups: alt.config,talk.bizarre,misc.test,alt.religion.kibology
From: bdb@becker.GTS.ORG (Bruce Becker)
Subject: Re: alt.religion.carassology
Organization: G. T. S., Toronto, Ontario
Date: Sat, 15 Aug 1992 08:39:15 GMT

In article <1992Aug6.054140.18340@msuinfo.cl.msu.edu> klein@kira.egr.msu.edu (Jeffrey Klein) writes:
|I propose the title group for Carassological discussions.
|About time, isn't it?


	Why waste energy, since "alt.sex.carasso.snuggles"
	already exists for such purposes?


-- 
  ,u,	 Bruce Becker			Toronto, Ontario
a /i/	 Internet: bdb@becker.gts.org	Uucp: ...!web!becker!bdb
 `\o\-e	 "We want the worm, and we want a cow!"
 _< /_	 	- More Jimison, ordering drinks for his table
Newsgroups: alt.config
From: arthurc@sfsuvax1.sfsu.edu (Arthur Chandler)
Subject: Re: Why Alt.Music techno? Read this....
Organization: California State University, Sacramento
Distribution: usa
Date: Thu, 20 Aug 1992 03:59:32 GMT

   You raise some good points brother Pete -- though I'd prefer it if
you could edit out flamelets like "this is silly." Still, I think that
techno deserves its own space for the reasons I gave before.
   How about this:
   "Rave" is not music.  It is a kind of event that includes music --
especially techno -- but much more besides.  "Narcs at raves," "rave
clothing," "why can't ravers really dance," etc. -- these are rave
issues that belong in alt.rave.  But techno isn't just a subset of
raves.  It has a musical language of its own, and it raises issues that
go beyond the rave scene. Furthermore, techno has other contexts than
raves (see my number three above).  
   Finally, I think that "just because we want to" is one -- though not
the only -- good reason for starting alt.techno.rave.  If a number of
people feel strongly that they want to get together on USENET and talk
about what interests them, shouldn't we respect them enough to let them
try out their idea? There are already enough people and institutions in
our lives that prohibit things we want because they "know what's good
for us."  Why not, in USENET at least, let the people who want a techno
group decide what's good for them?
    
Newsgroups: alt.config
From: EIVERSO@cms.cc.wayne.edu
Subject: Re: proposal for alt.music.techno
Organization: Wayne State University, C&IT
Date: Wed, 19 Aug 1992 13:29:49 GMT

In article <1992Aug19.041052.20982@bradley.bradley.edu>
pwh@bradley.bradley.edu (Pete Hartman) writes:
 
>>I really can't answer your question the way you want me to cuz I don't know
>>enuf about raves. And the more I learn, the less I want to know.
>
>That's fine, but why be a snob and effectively "take your ball and go
>away"?  There is plenty of bandwidth in alt.rave to discuss techno
>*without* any content about "rave" per se.
 
It's a convoluted argument that there's room for more techno in
the rave group--and on the other hand, others have cited the potential
"information overload" that will be brought about by the creation of a
seperate techno group. It's a no-win situation for the alt.music.techno
supporters.
 
I guess the sad fact is that there are a number of techno fans who
simply *are* seperatists or isolationists or whatever. They don't
*want* to disseminate information to a group who's primary interest is
rave. This partly explains why there is so little techno-centric
posting in alt.rave in the first place.
 
As much as the rave philosophy might be one of unification and
brotherhood, the true techno spirit was born of a backlash against
the hippy idealism of the 60s and early 70s. Nowhere in the world is
this more prevalent than in my city (Detroit) where contemporary techno
was defined. Here, rave is treated almost like a "bad word" as it was
embraced not by the "underground" inner-city venues, but rather by the
"commercial" suburban clubs. And major techno-rave-dj-parties attract crowds
of a few hundred, not a few thousand--the contrast with LA or europe
should be obvious.
 
In any event, why think of alt.music.techno as "taking my ball and going"?
Think of it more as a group that you could monitor to get more
pure techno music information--a group that will bring greater visibility
to matters of interest to ravers, and contribute to the rave cause by it's
mere existence.
 
If you don't like our seperatist attitude, then you can just stay the
heck out of our group! ;-)
 
--Eric
Newsgroups: alt.config
From: malouin@engin.umich.edu (Curt Malouin)
Subject: Re: proposal for ALT.MUSIC.TECHNO - YESSS!!!
Date: Sat, 15 Aug 92 21:10:24 EDT
Organization: University of Michigan Engineering, Ann Arbor

In article <15AUG199216063068@rosie.uh.edu> st10t@rosie.uh.edu (Bloo Square) writes:
>Exactly!  The difference between rave and techno is that rave *IS* techno, but
>with an attitude of PEACE and UNITY!  Techno is just a general term for 
                                       ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>ANYTHING relating to technology, which in this case would be music technology

I would say that within this discussion, "techno" is not a well-defined term.
When I use the term, I have something very specific in mind.  I would imagine
that this holds true for a good deal of people who have been listening to the
electronic dance music created in Detroit for the last 11 years.  If rave is
in fact techno, then it relates to its origins as metal does to rock and roll.
I would be the last to put "rave" and "techno" in the same category.

>So kick out those elitists, separatists, or whatever.  Rave is only for the
>people who wish to unite for peace and a better world...which we all live in.

I think the attitude has a lot to do with the difference.  I don't know if
Kraftwerk was driven by a "wish to unite for peace", but "uniting" was not
a common theme around Metro Detroit in the 1980's.  I think (or hope, at
least) that the original proposal was for a group which dealt with techno
and electronic dance MUSIC, and not any SCENE.  A lot of the traffic on
alt.rave deals with the rave scene.

A techno mailing list may be more appropriate.  After all, we are "elistists,
separatists, or whatever" :-)

	-curt

+----------------+ Curt Malouin              malouin@engin.umich.edu      #
| , , , , = = ;; |                                                       {|}
| _ _ _ _ __     | CAEN Hotline counselor                                 |
| | | | | || ### | Computer Aided Engineering Network, U of Michigan      |
| | | | | || ### |                                                        |
| -+- + + +- -+. |   "Life is incomplete unless you bang the beat"       /
+----------------+                                                      %
Newsgroups: alt.config,alt.elvis.sighting
From: news@geovision.gvc.com (News Administrator)
Subject: Re: rmgroup alt.elvis.sighting
Organization: Not officially GeoVision Systems Inc., Ottawa, Ontario, Canada
Date: Thu, 13 Aug 1992 13:54:38 GMT

In <!44m=pl.rdc@netcom.com> rdc@netcom.com (Roger David Carasso) writes:

>root@anomaly.sbs.risc.net (PENIS-MAN Network Administration) writes:
>)Please remove.
>Let each site make the decision as to whether to keep a.e.s.

It _STAYS_ here.

-- 
Paul Tomblin, News Administrator Extraordinaire.  (pt@geovision.gvc.com)
You all know that this stuff is my opinion, don't you?  Nothing to do with
GeoVision at all.  Honest!  "I fed the news today, oh boy"
Newsgroups: alt.config,alt.rave,rec.music.industrial
From: EIVERSO@cms.cc.wayne.edu
Subject: Re: REC.MUSIC TECHNO - yes (Re: proposal for ALT.MUSIC.TECHNO - no)
Organization: Wayne State University, C&IT
Date: Tue, 18 Aug 1992 13:56:36 GMT

In article <1992Aug17.232838.541@cs.sfu.ca>
jamie@cs.sfu.ca (Jamie Andrews) writes:
 
>     We were calling Thomas Dolby and Flock of Seagulls
>"techno-pop" way back in the old days of 1983, well before the
>concept of a "rave" existed.
 
Well yes and no: The album "Having a Rave-Up With the Yardbirds" came out
in the late-mid '60s. Not to mention Buddy Holly's late '50s hit "Rave On"
;-)
There may be many other serious historical references I missed, but I am
led to believe rave proper is 1-2 years old.
 
The many techno pop bands of the '80s were inspired by the true roots
of techno--Kraftwerk--who were pumping it out since the mid '70s.
The Detroit techno sound which defined and refined today's techno
was started by Cybotron in '81. Again there may be many serious gaps as I'm
only adressing the early roots here.
 
>     As far as I can tell, there's a continuing tradition there.
>I assume TECHNO is stuff like The KLF?  Wouldn't have been out
>of place in 1983.
 
KLF would have caused riots in '83, today they are relatively tame.
 
>     Of course, if The KLF are Antichrists of TECHNO, I stand
>corrected.
 
I like them (as if that makes a diff)
Arguing over what is or isn't techno seems like a waste of time IMHO.
 
--Eric
Newsgroups: alt.config
From: elle@kimbark.uchicago.edu (Ellen Keyne Seebacher)
Subject: Re: Proposal: alt.tv.blakes7
Reply-To: elle@midway.uchicago.edu
Organization: University of Chicago Computing Organizations
Date: Fri, 21 Aug 1992 16:25:57 GMT

In article <1992Aug21.121909.3610@cas.org> 
 lvirden@cas.org (Larry W. Virden) writes:
>Has any one heard enough legitimate reasons against this group not to
>create it?

Only one:  we _still_ haven't heard whether its boosters still plan
to issue an RFD for a "rec" group.

>If not, I would like to suggest that someone go ahead and create it...

If someone answers the question (negatively), I'll issue the newgroup.

--
Ellen Keyne Seebacher            news@uchinews.uchicago.edu
Newsgroups: alt.config
Subject: Re: suggestion for alt.religion.computers.assembler
From: kilroy@acme.gen.nz (earthbound misfit, I)
Date: Fri, 21 Aug 92 08:15:42 GMT
Organization: ACME BBS - Public Access Usenet, Palmerston North, New Zealand

lasner@watsun.cc.columbia.edu (Charles Lasner) writes:

> kilroy@acme.gen.nz (earthbound misfit, I) writes:
>
> >[...]
> >alt.folklore.computers I will send out newgrps tomorrow for
> >alt.religion.computers.assembler, barring any suggestions in the meantime
> >for a better name.
> 
> how about
> alt.religion.meticulous.codewriters.assemblers
> 
> and
> 
> alt.religion.sloppy.codewriters.hll

Yeah, not bad, but to truly fit the heirarchy they should really be:

	alt.religion.computers.codewriters.meticulous.assembler
	alt.religion.computers.codewriters.sloppy.hll

						- k
-- 
Craig Harding            kilroy@acme.gen.nz             ACME BBS +64 63 3551342
"Jub'f Xvob?"
From: twpierce@amhux1.amherst.edu (Tim Pierce)
Newsgroups: alt.config
Subject: Re: proposal for alt.folklore.ghost-stories
Date: 17 Aug 92 22:50:25 GMT
Organization: Amherst College, Amherst MA

In article <4720@blue.cis.pitt.edu.UUCP> tjw@vms.cis.pitt.edu (TJ Wood) writes:

>At least with afg you probably be able to concentrate on the
>folklore and not Craig Shergold or Snuff films. ;-)

Are you sure?  Snuff films supposedly involve dead people, and if
Craig Shergold ever passes on ....

-- 
____ Tim Pierce                / "Bisexual just means you pay for it."
\  / twpierce@amherst.edu      /  
 \/ (BITnet: TWPIERCE@AMHERST) /   -- Rock Hudson
Newsgroups: alt.config
From: swood@vela.acs.oakland.edu (Scott Wood - EVENSONG)
Subject: proposel for alt.politics.putting.people.first (moderated)
Organization: Oakland University, Rochester MI.
Date: Wed, 19 Aug 1992 16:49:22 GMT

I am currently starting a Putting People First group in my area and
I was wondering if there was any way that I could get a news group
started for feedback.  I would prefer something Moderated and would have
no problem with taking on the responsibility as I do tend to frequent
the computer at least once a day.

If I have found the wronge forum for presenting such a request, I would
appreciate if someone let me know.  I would also appreciate any sources
for more information on how moderated news groups work....

thanks

Scott Wood

-- 
+========================+    -------_________     +=========================+
| WANTED - DEAD OR ALIVE |    o\ o \     ____|o    |  If you see this lure,  |
|  Creek Chub "Plunker"  |      \___\_-o-    viv   | PLEASE send me email!!! |
+========================+            viv          +=========================+
From: porsupah@drycas.club.cc.cmu.edu
Newsgroups: alt.config
Subject: Re: proposal for alt.folklore.ghost-stories
Date: 13 Aug 92 03:16:24 -0500
Organization: Raccoon-Silkies have more fun !

In article <1992Aug12.131711.58082@cc.usu.edu>, slb3y@cc.usu.edu (Punk Rocketeer) writes:
>> Hence, I'm
>> suggesting alt.folklore.ghost-stories to provide an appropriate newsgroup
>> for such messages and for those people who like ghost stories and want to
>> discuss and share them.
> 
>      Probably a good idea.  There doesn't seem to be a place to swap
> and discuss ghost stories.  Count one in favor.

 An appropriate forum for a topic can often bring out a hitherto unrecognised
demand; I'd enjoy seeing a group as above. Count another in favor.

-- Porsupah

\      __     /  ---  porsupah@drycas.club.cc.cmu.edu
 \\     /'   //
  \\\__/!|__///  ---           B5fw-cvdvg+(+)k+s++e+p
Newsgroups: alt.config
From: EIVERSO@cms.cc.wayne.edu
Subject: proposal for alt.music.techno
Organization: Wayne State University, C&IT
Date: Fri, 14 Aug 1992 20:24:08 GMT

Well, how about it?
 
It would be for persons who don't want to wade through alt.music.alternative,
alt.cyberpunk, rec.music.misc, rec.music.synth, rec.music.industrial,
or whatever just to get their techno news.
 
I think the discussion of creating a rec.music.techno has come up before,
and was quashed due to disagreement over what techno was.
 
I say so what? I would be fine by me if persons wanted to discuss any
variety of techno music.
 
Here's a few varieties off the top of my head:
 
Techno pop
Industrial Techno
Synth pop
Belgian Techno
Detroit Techno
New wave
Techno rave
Hardcore Techno
 
Now you see, Synth pop, New wave, and Industrial techno might not
belong on the list for one reason or another--but that's .... OK.
 
I say let's start an alt.music.techno group and go from there.
 
--Eric
 
********************
This .sig is shareware--You may read it and copy it free of charge.
After 30 days, if you decide to keep it, you must send me $5.
From: tjw@vms.cis.pitt.edu (TJ Wood)
Newsgroups: alt.config
Subject: Re: rmgroup alt.graphics
Date: 14 Aug 92 03:15:47 GMT
Organization: University of Pittsburgh

In article <1992Aug12.222848.17211@midway.uchicago.edu>, elle@kimbark.uchicago.edu (Ellen Keyne Seebacher) writes:

> sloane@kuhub.cc.ukans.edu (Bob Sloane) writes:

>>> Alt.sewing is for a _subset_ of textile crafts.

>>Excuse me, but I created alt.sewing, and participated in the move to
>>rec.crafts.textiles.  The groups have identical charters.  Trust me.

> Somebody needs to be clearer about creating lines for the "newsgroups"
> file, then:

>   alt.sewing              Working with needle and thread.
>   rec.crafts.textiles     Sewing, weaving, knitting and other fiber arts.

Is alt.sewing supposed to be aliased to rec.crafts.textiles?  Enquiring
minds, etc, want to know.

Thanks,

Terry
-- 
        INTERNET: tjw+@pitt.edu         BITNET: TJW@PITTVMS
"Laugh while you can, Monkey Boy!"                        - Lord "John" Warfin
"There can be only one!"                                  - The Highlander
"There should have been only one. I want my money back!"  - Terry
Xref: sparky alt.config:5164 rec.arts.tv:16407