HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: kasprj@jacob.its.rpi.edu (Jim Kasprzak)
Subject: Re: Note on Newport News Wreck
Reply-To: kasprj@rpi.edu
Organization: The Big Wedge 
Date: Tue, 18 Aug 1992 04:23:17 GMT

In article <1992Aug17.232202.22145@dartvax.dartmouth.edu>, R.Todd.Minsk@dartmouth.edu (R. Todd Minsk) writes:

|> I realize this was intended to be a humorous statement, but having been
|> spoken to on more station platforms (not to mention engine terminals)
|> than I care to think about, I wonder just what Amtrak and certain other
|> railroads think is so dangerous about being in proximity to stationary
|> locomotives.
 
 Probably it's because stationary locomotives can become mobile locomotives
fairly quickly, and Amtrak would rather err on the side of caution when 
estimating the power of human stupidity. I'm sure a lot of serious railfans
know the signals that would tell them that a loco is starting to move. 
But a lot more of them don't. I know I don't myself. If I want to get a 
close-up of a locomotive, I'll try to find a local Amtrak person and ask,
"Is it safe to stand there and take pictures?" Usually they'll be reasonable
about it - with the expectation that you'll be reasonable as well. If they 
tell you that no, it isn't safe, you should take them seriously. A little 
courtesy and common sense goes a long way on both sides.
------------------------------------------------------------------
     __  Live from Capitaland, heart of the Empire State...
 ___/  | Jim Kasprzak, computer operator @ RPI, Troy, NY, USA
/____ *| Pro-Environment. Pro-Education. Pro-Family. Pro-Choice. 
     \_| Pro-Change. Pro-America. Pro-Clinton.
      ====  e-mail: kasprj@rpi.edu or kasprzak@mts.rpi.edu 

 
Newsgroups: rec.railroad
From: ggg9y@poe.acc.Virginia.EDU (Garth G. Groff)
Subject: Re: Restroom Closings on Amtrak (Was: My Amtrak Vacation)
Organization: University of Virginia
Distribution: usa
Date: Mon, 17 Aug 1992 16:20:21 GMT

Yes, most Amtrak toilets flush directly onto the roadbed.
Some of the older Heritage Fleet cars still have holding
tanks (or had until recently), but the newer equipment 
lacks them (surprisingly).  It has something to do with
the electro-chemical system which supposedly treats the
waste before dumping it.  Many towns have ordinances 
against dumping this "stuff" in their towns, especially
where the trains is stopped and it would build up on the
tracks.  A friend once mentioned that it was a real
problem for fishermen down in Florida who frequently got
showered while passing under bridges.  Seems the fish
thought the best place to hang out was under these 
bridges (wonder why!).
~S
--
Garth (Haridas) Groff
"Not yet famous author"
ggg9y@poe.acc.virginia.EDU         Chant "Govinda Bohlo Hare"
Newsgroups: rec.railroad
From: banarji@unixg.ubc.ca (Ajai Banarji)
Subject: Any Britrail experts out there?
Originator: banarji@unixg.ubc.ca
Organization: University of British Columbia, Vancouver, B.C., Canada
Date: Mon, 17 Aug 1992 21:56:06 GMT

		Any Britrail experts out there?

PROBLEM: To travel from Vancouver to Bradford.

SOLUTION #1: Fly to Manchester, take a train to Bradford
SOLUTION #2: Fly to Heathrow, take tube to King's Cross, and IC to Bradford.
	     If nothing direct is available, take an IC to Leeds and change
	     to a local there.
SOLUTION #3: Fly to Heathrow, take a bus to Stevenage, and take northbound
	     IC from there as in #2.

	The choice between #1 and #2/#3 depends on the relative air fares
to Manchester and Heathrow. My question relates to option 3. Does anyone
know about the frequencies of buses to Stevenage? Do they go to the
railway station or somewhere else? More importantly, do the ICs to Leeds
and Bradford stop at Stevenage? This information was not given in Thomas
Cook's timetable.
	Thanks in advance.
Newsgroups: rec.railroad
From: rob@vitsemi.com (Rob Eccles)
Subject: Swiss Railroad Questions
Organization: Vitesse Semiconductor
Date: Wed, 19 Aug 1992 00:30:36 GMT

I will be spending a week in Switzerland in September.  What are some
interesting railroads to see or ride?

I already plan to take the Glacier Express.  What are some of the 
important landmarks to look for?  How important are reservations?
I am considering disembarking in Chur, should I stay on to go to
St. Moritz?

Any suggestions are welcome.

Rob
-- 
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Rob Eccles         | Disclaimer: The statements made here do not 
rob@vitsemi.COM    | represent my employer or anyone else.
From: forags@yogi.berkeley.edu (Al Stangenberger)
Newsgroups: rec.railroad
Subject: Steam Excursion San Jose - LA Sept 12-13
Date: 20 Aug 1992 16:40:36 GMT
Organization: U.C. Forestry & Res. Mgt.
Distribution: na
NNTP-Posting-Host: yogi.berkeley.edu
Keywords: SP2472

The Golden Gate Railroad Museum is sponsoring a steam excursion from San Jose,
CA to Los Angeles.  The train will depart on the morning of Saturday, Sept. 12,
1992, make an overnight stop in San Luis Obispo, and arrive in Los Angeles in
the afternoon of Sunday, Sept. 13.  Tickets may be purchased for the entire
2-day trip, or for either one-day segment.

This will be the first long-distance operation of recently-restored S.P. 2472.
The train will consist of passenger cars currently used on the D&RGW Ski Train,
along with deluxe private cars.

Seating is available in three classes: Coach, Deluxe, and Premier.  Fares:

                          COACH   DELUXE  PREMIER
San Jose - Los Angeles      280     400     750
Segment 1 - San Jose to SLO 150     225     400
Segment 2 - SLO to LA       150     225     400

[Premier class is in private cars, and semi-formal attire is requested.]

Overnight accommodations in San Luis Obispo are passenger's responsibility.
This is only a one-way trip [anybody know what else 2472 will be doing in
LA?].

For further info:  Golden Gate Railroad Museum
                   P.O. Box 3315
                   Redwood CIty, CA 94064

Phone:             1-800-949-2472

VISA and MasterCard accepted for ticket orders.  Tickets are non-refundable.


-- 
Al Stangenberger                    Dept. of Forestry & Resource Mgt.
forags@violet.berkeley.edu          145 Mulford Hall - Univ. of Calif.
uucp:  ucbvax!ucbviolet!forags      Berkeley, CA  94720
BITNET: FORAGS AT UCBVIOLE          (510) 642-4424  FAX: (510) 643-5438                      
Xref: sparky rec.railroad:6585 ba.transportation:2030
From: romeo@niagara.Tymnet.COM (Michael Stimac)
Newsgroups: rec.railroad,ba.transportation
Subject: Re: RR bridges, was Cost of transit systems vs highways
Date: 17 Aug 92 22:06:21 GMT
Followup-To: rec.railroad
Distribution: na
Organization: BT North America (Tymnet)

In article <1992Aug15.051323.19656@s1.gov> lip@s1.gov (Loren I. Petrich) writes:
>In article <2317@tymix.Tymnet.COM> romeo@niagara.Tymnet.COM (Michael Stimac) writes:
>
>>This is interesting; I've read that it is a general principle of
>>civil engineering that a suspension bridge is not a suitable choice
>>for a railroad bridge. The Golden Gate bridge is of the suspension
>>type.
>
>	I'm mentioning weights here because I wonder if weight is the
>big problem with trains on suspension bridges.

My understanding is that the problem with railroads using
suspension bridges is not that the trains are too heavy for the
bridge (the dead weight load of all the autos/trucks on the GG 
bridge, e.g., is probably much greater than that of a 6-8
car passenger carrying train). Rather the problem is that
a suspension bridge is not a stable, rigid structure. 

Suspension bridges move (quite a bit apparently) as the load
varies over the roadway. A train moving over a bridge is a
very "live" load (not mere dead-weight). A broadly spread out
assortment of motor vehicles probably approximates a static
(non-moving) load to a degree.

So, it is the interaction between the great flexibility of
a suspension bridge coupled with the heavy moving load of
a train that is the problem. As to the mere heaviness of
trains, a bridge can be made (nearly) arbitrarily strong.

Also, it is very possible that small movements of the
bridge roadway could set up sympathetic resonance in the
springing of the locos and rolling stock, and cause them to
derail.  This is a non-trivial accident cause, even on
supposedly 'rigid' track laid on earth roadbed.

In any case, the axle loading of locomotives, e.g., is not
particularly an issue, as the bridge as a whole 'sees' the
locomotive as a whole. The axle loading is more relative to
the design details of the track structure strength and how
it is supported by the cross-members of the bridge. (Yes,
I know about Cooper loadings). The axle loading IS significant
for relatively short bridges in which the span length is a
small multiple of the locomotive length.

ObDisclaimer: I'm not a civil engineer, and the above is
my recollection of reading blurred over time.

Michael Stimac
-- 
Michael Stimac
(415) 355-8889
romeo@tymnet.com
These opinions are not necessarily anyone's but my own.
Newsgroups: rec.railroad
From: jbvb@vax.ftp.com  (James B. VanBokkelen)
Subject: Re: Death Announcement: SEPTA Trolleys in North Philadelphia
Nntp-Software: PC/TCP NNTP
Reply-To: jbvb@ftp.com
Organization: FTP Software, Inc., Wakefield, MA
Distribution: na
Date: Mon, 17 Aug 1992 13:50:00

In article <1992Aug17.124702.4753@midway.uchicago.edu> orc@usite-next.uchicago.edu (David Parsons) writes:

    In article <86217@netnews.upenn.edu> sfsmith@pennsas.upenn.edu (Sandy F. Smith, Jr.) writes:
    |As of yesterday (8/13/92), it's official:  the world's longest trolley line
    |will be no more.
    
       When?

Latest issue of RailPace said that September 6 was going to be the
last day for all the Philadelphia trolleys, except the subway-surface
lines to the west.

James B. VanBokkelen		26 Princess St., Wakefield, MA  01880
FTP Software Inc.		voice: (617) 246-0900  fax: (617) 246-0901

Newsgroups: rec.railroad
From: dave@csd4.csd.uwm.edu (Dave Rasmussen)
Subject: Railbike info sought
Originator: dave@opus.csd.uwm.edu
Organization: Home for insane railfans
Distribution: na
Date: Thu, 20 Aug 1992 20:31:25 GMT


I am interested in any plans or ideas for converting a standard
bicycle to a 3 or 4 wheeled vehicle to roll along on abandoned or
state owned but not in use rail corridors. Noone has to remind me
of the dangers of trespassing on railroad property. The corridor(s)
I intend to use are currently impounded and are used as snowmobile
trails when snow covered, which probably explains why trees haven't
taken them over yet. I am mainly interested in viewing wildlife up and
down the corridors without a motorized vehicle.

I have visions of a bike with either a flanged wheel, or possibly just a
wider rubber tire that would hit the other rail at an angle, the bike leaning
slightly to that rail, with the front wheel braced accordingly, to solve
the problems of steering and shifting off both rails. How well it would work
on switches or grade crossings, I don't care. I would be happy to clip along
at 5 mph. 

Please email me any suggestions, addresses of railbike type groups, pictures
of such gizmos in railroad literature, etc.


Newsgroups: rec.railroad
From: adrian@ntmtv.UUCP (Adrian Brandt)
Subject: Re: Swiss Railroad Questions
Organization: Northern Telecom Inc, Mountain View, CA
Date: Wed, 19 Aug 1992 17:41:12 GMT

In article <1992Aug19.003036.2051@vitsemi.com>, rob@vitsemi.com (Rob Eccles) writes:
|> I will be spending a week in Switzerland in September.  What are some
|> interesting railroads to see or ride?

Many of the best train rides in Switzerland are on private railroads
that usually don't honor the Eurail pass.  The SBB's own "Swiss Holiday
Card" is more widely accepted, but even then, many of the special rides
require that you pay either part or all of the regular fare.

With that said, I would hasten to add that for many of the rides that
won't accept either the Eurail or the Swiss Holiday Card, paying the
extra fare is well worth the experience!  Switzerland certainly must
have some of the best mountain railroad rides in the world. 

Some of my favorites include the "Pilatus Bahn" and the "Brienzer
Rothorn Bahn".  The Pilatus Bahn is the steepest cogwheel train ride
in the world.  I don't remember the grade, but it is very steep!  It
is named after the peak it climbs called the "Pilatus".  It is a short
train ride from "Luzern" (Lucerne).  On a clear day, this ride brings
you to the top of the Pilatus for spectacular views and excellent
alpine hiking possibilities.  Although I've never it, some folks take
the train up and hike down or vice versa.

The "Brienzer Rothorn Bahn" is a steam cog-wheel train ride that climbs
to from the shores of the "Brienzer See" (Brienz Lake) to the top of
the Brienzer Rothorn peak.  This one also affords spectacular views on
a clear day.  They used to run a combination of steam and diesel trains,
but they might be all-steam now--I'm not sure.   Be sure to get a
steamer if you go!  There's nothing quite like riding in a semi-open
car being pushed up through tunnels blasted through rocky cliff walls
by a steam cogwheel steam engine chugging away...

There are many other special trains in Switzerland and I'm sure others
will mention some of them.  Enjoy your trip!

-- 

Adrian Brandt (415) 940-2379
UUCP: ...!ames!ntmtv!adrian
ARPA: ntmtv!adrian@ames.arc.nasa.gov
From: bob@1776.COM (Robert Coe)
Newsgroups: rec.railroad
Subject: Which cars have holding tanks
Date: 18 Aug 92 02:09:48 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: 1776 Enterprises, Sudbury MA

ggg9y@poe.acc.Virginia.EDU (Garth G. Groff) writes:
> Yes, most Amtrak toilets flush directly onto the roadbed.  Some of the old-
> er Heritage Fleet cars still have holding tanks (or had until recently), 
> but the newer equipment lacks them (surprisingly).

This is nitpicking, I guess, but I don't think the "Heritage Fleet" cars ever
had holding tanks.  (I'm old enough to have riden in a lot of them long be-
fore the term "Heritage Fleet" was invented.)  It's the "Amfleet" cars that
have holding tanks.

   ___            _                                           -  Bob
   /__) _   /    / ) _   _
(_/__) (_)_(_)  (___(_)_(/_______________________________________ bob@1776.COM
Robert K. Coe ** 14 Churchill St, Sudbury, Massachusetts 01776 ** 508-443-3265
From: hudson@pnet51.orb.mn.org (Hudson Leighton)
Newsgroups: rec.railroad
Subject: GE spying on EMD? (from Fidonet)
Date: 18 Aug 92 23:20:55 GMT
Organization: People-Net [pnet51], Minneapolis, MN.




From:    Lindsey Jones
To:      All                                      Msg #35, 15-Aug-92 07:25UTC
Subject: Spy Or Buff???

   Trespassing GE employee was caught photographing a brand new GM SD-70 at
the CP Rail Systems yards which is off limits to the public.  This engine was
just unveiled in the new colours and will be moved to La Grange, Ill.  for
testing.
   A CP worker spotted this suspicious character taking photographs so he
escorted him off the property and recorded his vehicle license plate; as it
turns out the vehicle was traced to a Mr.  Robert Lambrecht who is employed by
GE's locomotive division in Erie, PA.  Of course "the intruder" denies spying
on GE and said that he was "just pursuing his hobby"...rail fanning!
   A spokesman for CP Rail said that it's not unusual for rail buffs to
trespass in the yard..."We're up to our armpits with rail buffs", and also
commented that,"the rail nuts wandering around" are usually escorted off the
property.
   The Canadian Security Intelligence Service is investigating the incident.

   Summerized from the "Wall Street Journal", August 12th 1992.

Lindsey.

 * SLMR 2.1a * Wifes motto;Veni, Vidi, Visa: I came, I saw, I shopped!

--- Maximus 2.01wb
 * Origin: Gorre & Daphetid 403-280-9900 Calgary AB Canada HST DS (1:134/14)




UUCP: {crash tcnet}!orbit!pnet51!hudson
INET: hudson@pnet51.orb.mn.org
ICBM: Lat. 44.59 x lon. 93.13
HAM:  NONMX  444.100 repeater
Advertisement: Try the Railway Post Office BBS (612) 377-2197 a Railfan BBS
From: ken@aiai.ed.ac.uk (Ken Johnson)
Newsgroups: rec.railroad
Subject: Re: Any Britrail experts out there?
Date: 19 Aug 92 13:44:13 GMT
Followup-To: rec.railroad
Organization: Bugs-R-Us


One other thing.  Do NOT take the Piccadilly Underground line from
Heathrow to London.  It is the fastest route, but even so it is slow,
with zillions of stops, and packed to the doors.  Take the airport bus
instead.  It takes about the same time, and you can sit upstairs and see
the view. 

-- Ken "I still think he should arrive in Glasgow" Johnson

-- 
////  Advice to dieters:          ////  Ken Johnson, A I Applications Institute
////    Never eat more than       ////       80 South Bridge, EDINBURGH EH1 1HN
////    you can carry.            ////                 E-mail ken@aiai.ed.ac.uk
////               -- Miss Piggy  ////     phone 031-650 2756  fax 031-650 6513
From: johnm@hpmcaa (John Mosbarger)
Newsgroups: rec.railroad
Subject: Re: Tehachapi Re:  High Speed Rail in Southern California
Date: 20 Aug 92 19:05:41 GMT
Organization: HP Cardiology Business Unit - McMinnville, OR
X-Newsreader: Tin 1.1 PL5


     Ah, yes, Tehachapi.  One of the top ten Sacred Shrines of Western States
Railfandom :-).

--
John Mosbarger
HP McMinnville, OR
johnm@hpmcaa.mcm.hp.com
Newsgroups: rec.railroad
From: terryfry@access.digex.com (Terry Fry)
Subject: Re: Restroom Closings on Amtrak (Was: My Amtrak Vacation)
Organization: Express Access Online Communications, Greenbelt, Maryland USA
Date: Fri, 21 Aug 1992 16:56:24 GMT

In article <14400@mindlink.bc.ca> Steve_Hooper@mindlink.bc.ca (Steve Hooper) writes:
>> Derek Morgan writes:
>> 
>> I believe that Amtrak has the installation of holding tanks as a high
>> priority
>> for its fleet overhaul. As cars go in, they are being retrofitted. This also
>> means that slumbercoaches will disappear, since there's no way to add holding
>> tanks for 22 (?) rooms.
>
>
>While on the topic of toilets, I recall reading in Trains a while back that the
>State of Florida was going to ban Amtrak from thei state if Amtrak didn't get
>holding tanks installed on their cars.  This was a very broad statement.  What
>ever came of that?

I lived in Orlando during all that stuff, what ended up happening is Florida
sued Amtrak on a point of local law.  It went as far as a federal apeals court
and was thrown out more on a technical aspect of Florida can't regulate Amtrak.

As to if they ever suceeded, I don't know.
From: schumann@msus1.msus.edu
Newsgroups: rec.railroad
Subject: SD70, Railfans & Spies
Date: 13 Aug 92 09:44:42 -0600
Organization: Minnesota State University System

There's an interesting article in _The Wall Street Journal_ for 
Wednesday, August 12, 1992, on page B6.  Its title is:

     "Rail Buff of a Spy?  GM Investigating Case of the
     Trespassing GE Employee"

While I don't want to take the time to key in the whole article (and I 
don't want to violate any copyrights), I will summarize it.

Apparently a General Electric engineer was found "ogling" (that's the 
term used by the Journal) and taking pictures of two brand new SD70 
(yes, that's not a typo -- SD70) locomotives (which were painted in
maroon, gray, and silver) in a Canadian Pacific Rail System yard.  

These locomotives had been newly assembled at GM's London, Ontario 
plant and were being shipped to GM-EMD's plant in La Grange, Illinois 
for testing.

According to the story, the SD70 was being developed in secrecy for a 
scheduled introduction in September at an industry show in Chicago.

The article went on to explain that the new locomotive model has new 
computers, electronic brakes, and other features that GM doesn't want 
GE to know about yet.

When the person was spotted trespassing in the CP Rail yard, he was 
escorted off the property and his license plate number was noted.  It 
was subsequently traced back to the GE engineer.  GE is claiming that 
the man is an avid rail enthusiast who was pursuing his hobby.  The GE 
engineer, who works in GE's Erie, PA locomotive division, also claims 
that he was doing it on his own and not "acting on GE's behalf."

GM, however, is suspicious and has called in the Canadian Security 
Intelligence Service to assist in the investigation.  One GM-EMD 
engineer is quoted as saying "Usually your average rail buffs stand by 
the track and take pictures.  They don't trespass on railroad 
property."

(Aside:  At least some members of the railroad community recognize 
that most railfans are responsible people who do not trespass.)

A GM spokesperson is quoted as saying "We believe it was more than a 
rail fan taking pictures."

Lesson:  Never trespass.  If you want to enter private property and 
take pictures, get permission.  If you are employed in the railroad 
industry, be especially sensitive to secrecy concerns.

For more information, check out the article in the Journal.
--
   Paul L. Schumann, Ph.D.           |  VAX:  IN%"schumann@MSUS1.MSUS.EDU"
   Professor of Management           |  Office Phone:       (507) 389-5349
   Mankato State University          |  Secretary's Phone:  (507) 389-2966
   Mankato, MN   56002-8400          |  Fax Number:         (507) 389-5497
From: karl@empirical.com (Karl Auerbach)
Newsgroups: rec.railroad
Subject: Driver clunk
Date: 17 Aug 92 01:56:13 GMT
Organization: Empirical Tools and Technologies

A couple of weeks ago I chased 4449 and 2472 down to Watsonville.

While they were turning the train at the Y, I couldn't help but hear the 
drivers on 4449 making rather loud clunks each time the driver went
around.  The 2472 was quiet.

Is it normal for the rods to be so noisy?

			--karl--
Newsgroups: rec.railroad
From: M00209@MBVM.Mitre.Org
Subject: Re: Restroom Closings on Amtrak (Was: My Amtrak Vacation)
Organization: The MITRE Corporation, Bedford MA 01730
Date: Wed, 19 Aug 1992 14:05:03 GMT

In article <1992Aug18.122644.727@murdoch.acc.Virginia.EDU>
ggg9y@poe.acc.Virginia.EDU (Garth G. Groff) writes:
 
>They [Amtrak] still bear some responsibility, however,
>for buying cars without holding tanks.  It is rather
>surprising in these days of supposed ecological consciousness
>that they would have accepted such a design, and even more
>surprising that they haven't bebuilt the systems.
 
These cars were designed and bought just before people started seriously
worrying about such things.  Of course, in fairness, one should point out
that railroad cars have been equipped with toilets that dumped directly onto
the right of way since the dawn of recorded history.  And fifty and more years
ago, there were one Hell of a lot more trains than there are today, and there-
fore presumably one Hell of a lot more "do-do" dumped on the tracks.  Not that
that was "right", just that it was a fact.  It's only in fairly modern times
that they've had water and flushing toilets - remember the P70s and such with
the "dry hoppers"?  GAWD Could they STINK!
 
Amtrak is now under Federal mandate to correct this "problem", and the modern
cars that do not have holding tanks will be retrofitted with them over the next
several years.  This mandate will almost certainly be the reason (or excuse)
for the final death of the "Heritage Fleet", since the conversion supposely
can't be economically justified.  (You mean it costs more to retrofit holding
tanks for the toilets than it cost to convert to HEP?!??!)  I suspect that the
speed of the conversion will depend upon the car supply (i. e., at what rate
Amtrak can afford to take cars out of service to be converted) as much as on
the available funds.
 
 
Len Bachelder        Archives Committee, Boston and Maine RR Historical Society
MITRE Corp.           Secretary, Massachusetts Bay Railroad Enthusiasts
Bedford MA 01730      Member, 470 Railroad Club
<M00209@mbvm.mitre.org>
 
"Amazing love, how can it be that Thou, my God, should'st die for me!"
                                                 - Charles Wesley
Newsgroups: rec.railroad