From: celeste%express@freedom.msfc.nasa.gov (Celeste)
Subject: Re: I'm new here
Followup-To: alt.transgendered
Organization: AEGIS
Date: Tue, 5 Jan 1993 19:36:45 GMT

In article <1993Jan2.150621.4492@fuug.fi>, an4361@anon.penet.fi (Claudia)
wrote:
> 
> Hello everyone
> 
[bio deleted]
> 
> By the way, do we have any genetic females out here, or are only genetic males
> whishing to change gender?

Running about 10:1 (m->f vs f->m) to 1:1 for a while and now 10:1.
I have meet one f->M talked to one on the phone.
> 
> If this was so, it would support a theory of mine. As I already complained, my 
> male body keeps me - or should I rather say, culture keeps my body ? - from 
> wearing anything I like in public. 
> 
Read "Vested Intrest". It has some commetary, but it light weight
inspite of its size.

> But why don't we hear much about women whishing to be male? In fact, they exist.

Many of us do..

> I happen to know a girl who in her early youth always was interested in boys as 
> mates, boys' clothes and boys' habits. And she has her difficulties with it,
> too. She now can wear boy's clothes, she can act as she likes, but she still
> suffers of it. But lucky, she she is able to talk about her problems, unlike 
> most men with similar problems.
> 
Untill she gets to the point of wanting to "pass" as a man. Then
she hits "culture anxity".

> At least when clothes are concerned, women have no problems being - in the sense 
> of "Kleider machen Leute" - whatever they like. Men's fashion nowadays is a proper 
> subset of women's fashion. Of course, in other parts of public life, women don't
> have that freedom, they have serious difficulties getting equal (and equally paid)
> jobs as men, they are much more restricted in where they go and what they do,
> because that little anatomic difference also consists of less phyisical power.
> But this is a topic that rather belongs to alt.feminism.
> 
> I believe that a big part of the folk out here in this newsgroup would be helped
> by a 'male emancipation' in fashion. 

Yes, on "casule" day I would LOVE to wear hose, heels and my Kasper suit!

> 
> Now, I hear them yelling out: But male bodies are not by far that attractive as
> female bodies are!!! Look at those hairy legs and chest, those fat bellies, that
> vanishing hair etc.
> 
My legs are BETTER looking than most of women's at work! That come
from my women friends!

> On the first glimpse, male bodies don't seem to be made for these soft fabrics, 
> these nice colors and gadgets that are familiar in women's fashion. As many of
> you are complaining, men are too tall, have hairy bodies, vanishing head hair, 
> things that prevent them from looking female, soft, nice and so on.
> 

Put on makup, a good looking dress, and the right wig, I can "turn a head"
or two. In a bar one time, I was approched once and one guy has his
hand on my knee! (I wanted to put it up the skirt!).

> But look what women are doing to fit the female scheme: bulimia, anorexia
> and other psychic phenomena occur mainly on females; all these drugs and accessories 
> to remove body hair, silicon implants at various places, make-up to smoothen the 
> skin, face liftings and so on.
> 
A LOT of women want to have is narrow hips, small buts and shaply
(musculer) legs. Guys already have that!!!

> I think that males making similar efforts could be made to fit in a scheme they
> don't fit in - like in the female case, where a great many actually doesn't fit 
> in this soft, nice, 'streamlined' scheme.
> 
I have long, sinder arms (I don't to upper body work outs, only walking!)

> In former times, men were 'allowed' to make up their bodies. Costume history 
> shows us that kings and nobles wore things at least as colorful as ladies and
> in old ages there was a strong similarity between the way men and women dressed.
> 
> But more and more, the fashion was specializing not only in the way it adapted 
> to the different anatomies. The different roles of the genders caused men to 
> spend less time and energy on making themselves up and underlining the features
> attractive for the other sex.
> 
> This way it came, I believe, that male fashion in these times is as unattractive
> and boring as it never was before and leaves as little place for expression as
> ever. And more, I believe that this is the reason for many men - also including 
> some folks out here - to be unhappy with their sex.
> 
> My conclusion is that, as women are fighting for emancipation in work and everyday's
> life, men should "fight" for emancipation too in segments of life that seemed to
> belong to women up to now.

In the US, the more "masuline" a women's dresses, the greater her
advancement
in male dominated jobs!

> 
> I hope I didn't bore you with my opinions and my german-ish english. I would like 
> to hear if somebody feels the way I do. If anybody out here liked some help 
> with clothing and sewing, I might be able to give support - feel free to contact me.
> 
> Bye & my best wishes for the new year
> 
> 

Good talking to you.

Love and hugs,

Celeste
Newsgroups: alt.transgendered