HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: sasghm@theseus.unx.sas.com (Gary Merrill)
Subject: Re: Science of Ethics
Originator: sasghm@theseus.unx.sas.com
Date: Thu, 17 Dec 1992 13:58:20 GMT
Organization: SAS Institute Inc.


In article <4180@eastman.UUCP>, mcgraw@titan.ppd.kodak.com (Edward McGraw) writes:
|> I think Gary Merrill asked me to explain the phrase 'Science of
|> Ethics' that I used in my last posting. I only meant that science
|> is an ordered body of knowledge; knowledge attained through study.
|> From the philosophical point of view, science is an intellectual
|> virtue which consists in the knowledge of a limited bit of reality
|> from a limited point of view. For example, Anatomy is the Science
|> of the human body from the point of view of its component parts.
|> Ethics is the science which studies the moral order, the order 
|> which reason establishes in the free acts of the will; in 
|> voluntary acts.

Well, basically I ain't gonna touch this with a fork for reasons
obvious to most readers of this group.

|> The use of the word 'virtue' above is not from theology but from
|> philosophy, where I believe virtue is defined as a good habit.
|> Therefore, a good habit, or permanent disposition, of the intellect
|> in this context, is to acquire knowledge.
|> 
|> Back in my time, philosophy depts. taught courses in ethics. I don't
|> know if they still do, or if they do, what they contain. Perhaps
|> someone could comment.  mcgraw@titan.ppd.kodak.com

Back in my time they did too.  They still do.  What they contain
varies widely from traditional normative ethics to meta-ethics.
-- 
Gary H. Merrill  [Principal Systems Developer, C Compiler Development]
SAS Institute Inc. / SAS Campus Dr. / Cary, NC  27513 / (919) 677-8000
sasghm@theseus.unx.sas.com ... !mcnc!sas!sasghm
Newsgroups: sci.philosophy.meta
From: shaman@cix.compulink.co.uk (Leo Smith)
Subject: Re: Basis of Knowledge...
Reply-To: shaman@cix.compulink.co.uk
Date: Fri, 18 Dec 1992 23:41:00 +0000

nreary@nyx.cs.du.edu (Nellie Reary) writes..

>Greets!
>Can anyone provide me with an answer to the question:

>        What is the Basis of Knowledge?

Yes. Personal direct experience is the basis of knowledge, coupled
with that extraordinary human talent to discriminate and associate
certain parts of that experience.

The  sum total of those discriminations and associations is human
knowledge.
Newsgroups: sci.philosophy.meta
From: shaman@cix.compulink.co.uk (Leo Smith)
Subject: Re: Existence (or Grossmans back)
Reply-To: shaman@cix.compulink.co.uk
Date: Fri, 18 Dec 1992 23:42:00 +0000

Well hellO sweetie. I too have been busy. I see they are all still
confusing the map with the territory, the mind with the world and
language with experience.

What rhymes with Shnorkel? and should we all dive so deep?
What rhymes with Peril, and are our minds asleep?
What rhymes with Hash, and is of mathematical bent?
What rhymes with Sucker, and is it astral sent?

Merry Christmas to you all.
From: hiho@csd4.csd.uwm.edu (Mark Peterson)
Newsgroups: sci.philosophy.meta
Subject: Re: Monkeys (was Folk theories)
Date: 19 Dec 1992 14:21:45 GMT
Organization: University of Wisconsin - Milwaukee
Distribution: inet
Reply-To: hiho@csd4.csd.uwm.edu
NNTP-Posting-Host: 129.89.7.4
Originator: hiho@csd4.csd.uwm.edu

From article <memo.820151@cix.compulink.co.uk>, by shaman@cix.compulink.co.uk (Leo Smith):
> zeleny@husc10.harvard.edu (Michael Zeleny) writes..
> 
>>>In fact self evident truths are derived from the believer's
>>>assumptions, biases, emotions etc. This at least means they have a
>>>relationship to human psychology and/or physiology.
> 
>>You should look into the difference between truth and opinion.
> 
> Those of you who have read Kiplings 'Just So' stories will be
> reminded of the troop of monkeys, jumping up and down and screaming
> 'we all say so, so it must be true'.

Hi there Leo,

This reminded me of something else I hadn't remembered for a while:
Hume's little contention that, finally, *no* beliefs are rational. ;-)

Kipling's monkeys are better though.


hiho

-- 
mark ce peterson   | uw-washington county  | hiho@csd4.csd.uwm.edu 
dept of philosophy | west bend, wi.  53095 | (414) 335-5200        

     The shorter the tether, the sooner the goat starves.
Newsgroups: sci.philosophy.meta
From: pmsc13sg@UMASSD.EDU (Stephen Grossman)
Subject: Existence
Reply-To: pmsc13sg@UMASSD.EDU
Organization: UMASS DARTMOUTH, NO. DARTMOUTH, MA.
Date: Tue, 15 Dec 1992 01:45:05 GMT

    As Arnie the Terminator might have said, "I'm beck!" As General Doug might
have said, "I have returned."
    
    It's sad. I've been gone less than two months from our hallowed net and look
at the lot of you, talking about das volk and Wittgenstein (not that there's
much difference, mind you) and, o horrible day, taking Zeleny seriously. A lot
of faces are missing. My august personage should draw them back into the fold.
Why, I  recall our scintillating discussions of (TAH DAH) Existence... I warn my
philosophical enemies that I just finished Bruno Snell's _The Discovery of the
Mind in Greek Philosophy and Literature_ and I have less patience with fools 
than before. O Zeus, o Apollo, o Athena, we offer a sacrifice of The Spirit of
Wittgenstein {SHAZAM!}and pray that you gods light the way to Enlightenment.
    
    Let's begin, shall we, with something moderately important. Gary Hull, in
"The Black Hole of Contemporary Philosophy (2nd Renaissance Books, Oceanside,
CA, audio, 1992), says the various parts of the mainstream of contemporary
philosophy have coagulated into [OMIGOD] postmodernism in the last few years. PM
reaches back, even before Kantian subjectivism, to critique Plato's introduction
of their bete noire, system. Yes, kiddies, they don't like system, any system,
objective, subjective, or whatever. Rorty is a biggie in this fetid pond. His
book, _Contingency, Irony, and Solidarity_, has the claim that we should not ask
about truth or falsehood but only about social solidarity. This, I presume,
derives from the claim that truth and reality are arbitrary and conventional.
    Comments, tomatoes, applause..?
================================================================================
	"In that world, you'll be able to rise in the morning with the spirit
you had known in your childhood: that spirit of eagerness, adventure and cer-
tainty which comes from dealing with a rational universe."
                                                              AYN RAND
================================================================================
Stephen Grossman <PMSC13SG@UMASS.EDU>
Subject: Re: MINDWALK - An exercise in Passionate Thought 
Distribution: world
Organization: KaKadu Systems
Reply-To: nick@nomad23.demon.co.uk
X-Mailer: Simple NEWS 1.90 (ka9q DIS 1.19)
Date: Sun, 20 Dec 1992 03:46:56 +0000

In article <1992Dec18.055715.16775@dunix.drake.edu> 
dtg001@dunix.drake.edu writes:

>I find it fascinating that physics, a purely scientific and 
>                                    ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>'reason-based' discipline
>^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Well I hope from the response to your naive, but well-intentioned, even
joyous attempt to communicate your discovery to this group has put paid
to that illusion.

	THESE ARE THE LORDS OF THE NEW CHURCH

	Enemies of the Open Society

	Proponents of Science as Thought Control - rigor become rigor mortis.

	And they are scared, scared they might just be wrong.

	So instead of the 'reasoned' response you might have expected from
	such erudite disciplined minds, we get undisciplined incoherent abuse.

	SCIENCE AND TRUTH - They think they already possess it, and those who
	still question, those opposed to the power structures they support and
	empower are dismissed as heretics (or worse).

	"I know that most men, including those at ease with problems of the
	greatest complexity, can seldom accept even the simplist and most 
	obvious truth if it be such as would oblige them to admit the falsity
	of conclusions which they have delighted in explaining to colleagues,
	which they have proudly taught to others, and which they have woven,
	thread by thread, into the fabric of their lives." 
                                                             Leo Tolstoy
	
	So can we please start a more constructive debate on Fritjof Capra -
	like why he ignors the Western Hermetic and Kabbalistic traditions out 
	of which Newton & Liebnitz constructed the foundations of classical
	physics - and the challenge that recent developments in nonlinear
	dynamics, together with vast increases in computing power, are posing
	for the metaphysical basis of that philosophy, as Steve correctly
	indicates. (for example)

	Nick

-- 
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Newsgroups: sci.philosophy.meta
From: pmsc13sg@UMASSD.EDU (Stephen Grossman)
Subject: Phil/Rush
Reply-To: pmsc13sg@UMASSD.EDU
Organization: UMASS DARTMOUTH, NO. DARTMOUTH, MA.
Date: Fri, 18 Dec 1992 20:57:11 GMT

    In a few minutes, at 4pm EST, on the Phil Donahue Show(TV), Donahue will
debate Rush Limbaugh. Liberalism vs. conservatism or social emotions vs.
religious tradition. No reason. This is the death of the mind and of philosophy.
They will probably argue past each other and without clearly defined principles
and with excessive, out-of-context details. We need Objectivism to guide
culture. Save us from windbags.
================================================================================
	"In that world, you'll be able to rise in the morning with the spirit
you had known in your childhood: that spirit of eagerness, adventure and cer-
tainty which comes from dealing with a rational universe."
                                                              AYN RAND
================================================================================
Stephen Grossman <PMSC13SG@UMASS.EDU>
================================================================================
From: gil@tillage.DIALix.oz.au (Gil Hardwick)
Newsgroups: sci.anthropology
Subject: Barrow and Seidenberg on origins
Distribution: world
Date: Fri, 18 Dec 92 08:36:44 GMT
Organization: STAFF STRATEGIES - Anthropologists & Training Agents


In article <djoyce.723835138@black.clarku.edu> djoyce@black.clarku.edu (Dave
 Joyce) writes:

 >  The structure shown in the three geographically diverse examples above is so
 >  similar, even to the extent that the larger number precedes the smaller in
 >  the conjunctions, the peoples involved are so primitive in other ways and
 >  their locations are at the extremities of civilization, that it invites a
 >  speculation.  [Yes, I agree, it does invite speculation.]  The independent
 >  invention of this counting system by such tribal groups seems most unlikely.
 >  [Oh, that unlikely?]  If this had been the case, one might expect to find
 >  far more similar counting systems spread randomly about, but there are
 >  virtually none.

Please do explain what is meant here by "so primitive" with reference
to Aboriginal Australia.

--
Gil Hardwick                          Internet:  gil@tillage.DIALix.oz.au
Independent Consulting Ethnologist                  Fidonet:  3:690/660.6
PERTH, Western Australia                         Voice:  (+61 9) 399 2401
   * * Sustainable Community Development & Environmental Education * *
Newsgroups: sci.anthropology
From: pound@ruf.rice.edu (Christopher Brian Pound)
Subject: Re: Yanomami warring & sexal frustration.
Organization: Rice University
Date: Thu, 17 Dec 1992 18:48:43 GMT

In article <Bz2xKI.AnH@javelin.sim.es.com> SJOSEPHS@130.187.170.178 (STEVEN JOSEPHSON) writes:
>Chagnon, by the
>way, is pretty much *the* ethnographer for this group.   

Maybe, but maybe not the *best* ethnographer for this group.  ;)

An article in Cultural Anthropology by a Brazilian whose name is just on the
tip of my tongue reviewed the work that has been done on the Yanomami by
Napoleon Chagnon, Jacques Lizot, and Bruce Albert, pointing out weaknesses in
each of them but concluding that Albert's work was strongest (In Her Humble
Opinion, of course).  Regrettably, Albert's dissertation hasn't been
translated (or even published as a book) as far as I know.  Still, the article
I'm thinking of is a pretty interesting critique of Chagnon and Lizot.

That article was recently (VERY recently) reprinted in _Rereading Cultural
Anthropology_, edited by George Marcus (a fine collection of articles that
appeared in the journal while George was editor -- before my time, here at
Rice).
-- 
Christopher Pound	+	I am human by my hands and my feet, my guts,
Anthro Grad Student	+	my meat heart, my stomach whose knots fasten
pound@ruf.rice.edu	+	me to the rot of life.	   -- Antonin Artaud
Newsgroups: sci.anthropology
From: 6500cga@ucsbuxa.ucsb.edu (Fegliano Barumfski)
Newsgroups: sci.anthropology
Subject: Re: Yanomami warring & sexal frustration.
Date: 14 Dec 92 02:54:00 GMT



John, I've not read any of Harris's stuff lately; but I got
to tell you this sounds like some twisted version of the
debat between Harris and Napoleon Chagnon.  Harris believed
that warfare and female infanticide were caused by population
pressure in the Amazon.  Chagnon, finding plenty of food, felt
the Yanomamo were competing for women.  BUT, I like your version
better. ...think I'll take a trip to the zoo.

-Feg
From: gil@tillage.DIALix.oz.au (Gil Hardwick)
Newsgroups: sci.anthropology
Subject: Yanomami warring & sexal frustration.
Distribution: world
Date: Mon, 14 Dec 92 00:52:12 GMT
Organization: STAFF STRATEGIES - Anthropologists & Training Agents


In article <1992Dec11.160737.11806@unocal.com> stgprao@st.unocal.COM writes:

 > In article <723994123snx@tillage.DIALix.oz.au> gil@tillage.DIALix.oz.au (Gil
 > Hardwick) writes:
 > Counter example: grad students- they are frustrated but don't war (at least
 > at my school) :-)

I am a little frustrated by your radical editing here; to which specific
comment of mine do you refer?

Americans students do play competitive sports, don't they?

--
Gil Hardwick                          Internet:  gil@tillage.DIALix.oz.au
Independent Consulting Ethnologist                  Fidonet:  3:690/660.6
PERTH, Western Australia                         Voice:  (+61 9) 399 2401
   * * Sustainable Community Development & Environmental Education * *
From: fuller@athena.cs.uga.edu (James P. H. Fuller)
Subject: Help finding a citation
Organization: University of Georgia, Athens
Date: Wed, 16 Dec 1992 14:49:49 GMT


     The citation is,

     "Holloway (1969) has defined "arbitrariness" as the key dimension
     of culture that distinguishes human behavior from that of other
     primates."

     That's all I've got: Holloway (1969).  I've searched the local
library catalog for books and articles with culture in the title and
Holloway as the author and have found an unmanageably large number of
Holloways writing about culture: David, Charles M., Emory, Harry, Jeremy,
etc. etc.
  
    Does anyone recognize this notion of arbitrariness?  Or, failing that,
can anyone tell me which among all the Holloway culture mavens in interested
in nonhuman primates?

    Thanks very much!

                                                  -- jf



| James P. H. Fuller, research director        Soil/Water Biology Laboratory |
|                                              Institute of Ecology          |
| work: fuller@athena.cs.uga.edu               University of Georgia         |
| home: (crom2 rejoins the bitstream one day)  Athens, GA U.S.A.             |

 
Newsgroups: sci.anthropology
From: danny@cs.su.oz.au (Danny)
Subject: Anthropology Journals
Organization: Basser Dept of Computer Science, University of Sydney, Australia
Date: Tue, 15 Dec 1992 01:58:04 GMT

In article <Bz8H0r.2q8@NeoSoft.com> claird@NeoSoft.com (Cameron Laird) writes:
>2.  It's a particularly good idea in anthropology to scan
>    current journals.  They're often accessible at an
>    undergraduate level (in contrast to what prevails in,
>    say, mathematics or physics, or, in a different way,
>    in psychology).  *Current Anthropology* of course
>    deliberately sets out to illustrate the dialogic
>    intellectual essence of the discipline, and its inter-
>    national character, and so is instructive in the ways
>    of anthropology in general.  Among specialized periodi-
>    cals, *Economic Botany* reliably exemplifies many of
>    the small pleasures of anthropology:  the dialectics
>    of psychology and material reality, language and folk-
>    ways, human society and allo-human biology, and
>    economic calculation and liminal experience.  It's a
>    good read.

I would like to see a list of anthropology journals, together with
information on how to subscribe to them.  If people who know about
these things mail me descriptions/reviews/information, I will collate
it all and post a list.  (Perhaps something that could go in a 
sci.anthropology FAQ)

Danny.
From: irwinke@storm.CS.ORST.EDU (Keith Irwin)
Newsgroups: sci.anthropology
Subject: Cultural Appropriation and the New Age
Date: 19 Dec 92 05:48:49 GMT
Article-I.D.: flop.1gud41INNpip
Distribution: world
Organization: Computer Science Department, Oregon State University
NNTP-Posting-Host: storm.cs.orst.edu


I'm new to this internet thing and thought I'd post a few questions for
general discussion, just to test the water, so to speak.

I'd like to know what people think about New Agers (ie, Europeans and
Euroamericans) appropriating the spirituality of various indiginous and
small scale cultures.

What are some of the ethical issues involved?

What does this sort of New Age appropriation say about members of the
"dominant" culture?

What kind of effect might it have on the cultures being appropriated from?

Would you say that the New Age in its various manifestations,
especially in regard to this issue of spiritual appropriation, fits
within the framework of AFC Wallace's revitalization movement theory?

Thanks,

Mary.

----------
Mary Smith-Nolan
Dept. of Anthropology
Oregon State University
Newsgroups: sci.anthropology
From: rspear@sookit.jpl.nasa.gov (Richard Spear)
Subject: harris's paper
Organization: Image Analysis Systems Group, JPL
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1 PL6]
Date: Mon, 14 Dec 1992 23:12:00 GMT


i did not attend the aaa convention in san fransisco. a fellow
student who did attend told me that marvin harris presented at
the conference and was quitee critical of "geertz and company".

i would like a copy of harris's paper...i guess i will have to get
it from him. does anyone know how to reach marvin harris? (u of f,
i believe).

thanks for any help and please respond by email so as notto clutter
the newsgroup....

--
richard
rspear@sookit.jpl.nasa.gov
all disclaimers apply
Newsgroups: sci.anthropology
From: cchampod@ulys.unil.ch
Subject: Fingerprints & Anthropology II
Organization: University of Lausanne - CH (Switzerland)
Date: Mon, 14 Dec 1992 10:51:33 GMT

Fingerprints and Anthropology


I'm sorry for the incomplete first message on Newgroups, the first time wasn't
so easy!

I'm working on a Ph.D Thesis on the assessment of the evidential value of
partial fingerprints in forensic sciences.
I'm looking for data about anthropological variations on fingerprints,
with particular interest for data on minutiae variations (type and number) 
with anthropological variables (sex, ethnic population, heredity, etc.).

I'm also interested in informations about fingerprint embryology which could
explain minutiae distribution on the papillary surface.

Thanks a lot for your help, Chris.


Contact: Christophe Champod
         Institut de Police Scientifique et de Criminologie
         Faculte de Droit/ Universite de Lausanne
         Place du Chateau 3
         CH-1003 Lausanne (Switzerland)
Newsgroups: sci.anthropology,bionet.plants
From: Thomas Bjorkman <Thomas_Bjorkman@cornell.edu>
Subject: Re: [ARCH] Re: Which Came First, Agriculture or Pastorialism? [LONG]
X-Xxdate: Fri, 18 Dec 92 10: 05:43 GMT
Nntp-Posting-User: tnb1@cornell.edu
Organization: Cornell University
X-Useragent: Nuntius v1.1.1d7
Date: Fri, 18 Dec 1992 15:01:44 GMT

In article <BzFqIG.HnM@NeoSoft.com> Cameron Laird, claird@NeoSoft.com
writes:
>No, I'm serious.  Europeans say "elk", and
>mean <<Alces alces>>, which is what all
>English speakers in North America call
>"moose".  Any Scandinavians care to confirm
>this?

I refer to one animal as moose in English and a"lg in Swedish.
A different animal I call elk and hjort in resp. languages.
Newsgroups: sci.anthropology,talk.religion.misc
From: lgarde@scorch.apana.org.au (Leon Garde)
Subject: Re: Hermaphrodites
Organization: Craggenmoore public Unix system , Newcastle , Oz
Date: Sat, 12 Dec 1992 01:13:58 GMT

dabbott@augean.eleceng.adelaide.edu.AU (Derek Abbott) writes:


|Does anyone know of any reference of a case study of how a
|religious group/entity responded (in practice & in their theology)
|to a real case of a hermaphrodite wanting to get married.


Get real ... Hermaphrodites prove
christianity utterly bogus.


leon
From: v065r7b7@ubvmsb.cc.buffalo.edu (we bury those we love)
Newsgroups: sci.anthropology
Subject: Re: Anthropology Journals
Date: 16 Dec 92 04:27:00 GMT
Organization: University at Buffalo
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41

In article <1992Dec15.015804.21557@cs.su.oz.au>, danny@cs.su.oz.au (Danny) writes...
> 
>I would like to see a list of anthropology journals, together with
>information on how to subscribe to them.  If people who know about
>these things mail me descriptions/reviews/information, I will collate
>it all and post a list.  (Perhaps something that could go in a 
>sci.anthropology FAQ)
> 
>Danny.


That would be great. I was just looking at some journals because I thought t
that I would become more involved with my major and upto date on "things".
Yes..I know the library is a great place, and I agree, but it's not like
having your own copy.  It's a collections of sorts.  Anyhow, I was checking
out the prices and I see that for  Current Anthropolgy  the subscription
was something like $200.00+ for an institution but then $25.00 for students.
  I thought that the American Journal for Physical Anthropology would be set
up the same way, but I was wrong.  It didn't mention anything of a student
rate, only the US rate of $898.00 for a year.  Which I tend to think is an
awful lot of money.  So unless something comes that I can afford, it's to the
library I go.

Oh by the way.  I'm beginning to look into Forensic Anthro. Does anyone have
any constructive advice on what angle I should approach this?  I've heard
that people generally don't specialize in this field.  Let me know.

                                                 -Steve

*******************************************************************************
 "Let me hang upon the highest bough - for all their world to see
       and let my belly be slit open - to reveal all that's inside of me.
   Let them know - what I was - and what I am - and what I wished to be.
      Let them know - what they want to know - now that I'm passed - reality." 
                                                                   -SC
*******************************************************************************
   VMS Bitnet: v065r7b7@ubvms.cc.buffalo.edu          Stephen D. Clark
      UNIX:  clark@acsu.buffalo.edu               Department of Anthropology
         CS :   clark@cs.buffalo.edu                 University @ Buffalo
           CEDAR:   clark@CEDAR.buffalo.edu            1-(XXX) XXX-XXXX
*******************************************************************************