From: gsnow@clark.edu (Gary Snow)
Newsgroups: rec.photo
Subject: Re: 7xi or 10S (was Re: Minolta Maxxum 7xi or Cannon EOS Elan)
Date: 28 Aug 92 18:23:27 GMT
Article-I.D.: clark.1992Aug28.182327.3005
Distribution: na
Organization: Clark College, Vancouver, Wa.  USA

yz@broca.acc.virginia.edu said:
>>>
>>>It has three widely spaced AF sensors which in my opinion is better
>>>than few big sensor bunched around the middle like in the 7xi.
>>
>> Lets see, my 10s has 3 sensors, and my 7xi has 4. My 7xi definately
>> has the wider autofocus area, and about 10 times the autofocus height
>> of my 10s. The autofocusing area of the 7xi clearly beats the area of
>> the 10s.
>
>Well, I don't know about that. Minolta claims the 7xi has the largest
>AF area of any camera. I have always believed them until now. After
>reading this message, I checked out these two camera in the back
>issues of Pop. Photography (Mar,92 and Feb,91). When I calcuted the
>tested (as opposed to the marked) AF areas of both cameras, the 10S
>actually had a bigger total AF area. In fact, more than twice as big!
>You can claim what ever you want, but since I doubt any of us has the
>extensive amount of test equipment of the magazine, I tend to believe
>their tests.
 
           Minolta 7xi                              Canon EOS 10s
 
 ---------------------------------        --------------------------------- 
|                                 |      |                                 |
|                                 |      |                                 |
|           _         _           |      |                                 |
|          |    [V]    |          |      |                                 |
|          =           =          |      |                =                |
|          H    [V]    H          |      |         [V]   [X]   [V]         |
|          =           =          |      |                =                |
|          |_         _|          |      |                                 |
|                                 |      |                                 |
|                                 |      |                                 |
|                                 |      |                                 |
 ---------------------------------        --------------------------------- 
 
Ok, now take a look at the viewfinders above.  Granted the marked area
of the 7xi isn't its exact actual focusin area, but neither is is on
the 10s. By adding up the areas of each individual sensor you can
clearly see that the 7xi has a larger area.
 
>>>The camera (10S) will pick the AF sensor to use or allow you to pick the
>>>sensor. This way you don't always have to keep the main subject in
>>>the center.
>>
>> Gee, so with the 7xi.
>
>Not so, if you'll look in you viewfinders again (or Pop. Photography),
>any body can see the sensors on the 10S is more spread out than the
>7xi. You still would have to keep the main subjext relativly in the
>center.
 
No, thats not true, both cameras' AF Sensor cover the area of 1/3 the
width of the viewfinder.
 
In addition the 7xi's sensors cover approx 1/5 to 1/6 of the height of
the viewfinder
 
>>>The central AF sensor will focus on both vertical and horizontal lines.
>>
>> So will the centeral focusing area of the 7xi.
>
>Wrong! The 7xi's top and center are sensitive to vertical lines, while
>the outer two vertical sensors are sensitive to horizontial lines.
 
Look, draw a a HORIZONTAL line through the center of the viewfinders I
have (drawn?) above. Notice that the line will pass through the two
sensors to the side that are sensitive to HORIZONTAL lines. Now do
the same with a VERTICAL line....it will pass through the top and middle
sensors that are sensitive to VERTICAL lines. Therefore it has the same
cross sensing capability as the 10s.
 
>And if you look at Pop. Photography's AF speedd tes, you'll notice 10S
>is actually faster than the 7xi in most light levels. So there goes
>the claim about faster focusing speed of 7xi.
 
Well, I don't know about Popular Photography, but I use these cameras
every day, and I KNOW which one is faster. The 10s with a USM lens
can't even keep up with an on-coming jet aircraft or race car at much
over 100 miles an hour, where the 7xi can do so, even while whipping 
off 4fps.
 
>>>It also has a built in flash, although without red eye reduction.
>>
>> Both the Elan and the 7xi have the red-eye reduction, and the Elan has
>> quite a few other flash features as well that the 10s doesn't.
>>
>>>It doesn't have Elan's quiet belt drive but it is still quieter than
>>>most AF cameras.
>>
>> Its sort of quiet, but try and use it during a wedding is will sound more
>> thunderous. Changing the film during the wedding vows get everyone to look
>> your direction.
>
>Try to do it with the 7xi! With it's powerzoom, AF motors, winding
>motors, and god knows what else, you'll get thrown out of the wedding.
>In Pop. Photography test, the 10S was consistently quieter than the
>7xi.
 
Power Zooming is VERY quiet (just sliightly louder then a focusing USM
lens). I don't use it anyway, its almost always turned off. I will
admit that a focusing USM lens is quieter then a focusing xi lens, but
we were talking about camera quietness. The winding motors on the 10s
are noticable louder then on the 7xi.
 
>>>The 10s is also easier to use than the 7xi.
>>
>> How do you know that, do you own both like me?  I think that the are
>> equally easy to use, if anything the 7xi is a little easier, because
>> you don't have to spin the dial to the correct PIC mode....the 7xi
>> does that automatically.
>
>Sorry, Gary. I don't own both. Us students with a large can't exactly
>let our photographic whims dictate our measly budget. But I have often
>used a friend's 7xi. The 10S was way easier to learn how to use. To
>access some functions, you even have to do it by opening that little
>door.
 
Oh, I'm sorry, I didn't think that opening a door and pushing a button
was harder then pushing a button. Besides only the least frequent
functions are behind that door (like card adjustment, manual ISO setting,
and manual film rewind).
 
>Another thing, 7xi don't have pic modes, in case you haven't noticed.
>In want a landscape mode, you need cards.
 
Well, then its user friendlyness worked on you didn't it? You see, it
does have PIC modes, but it chooses them automatically based on its
"Expert Intelligence" programming. You were using them and didn't even
know it. The card that are available only expand on this same
functionality, and give you a little more control.
 
>Let's see what else is 7xi missing. 10S has infred remote control, 7xi
>need a special wire remote control.
 
As I already stated in my comparision of the Elan to the 7xi....
 
>10S is lighter.
 
Yeah, and that extra 3oz's is a real killer on the old arm....:-)
 
>10S has built in interval timer, the 7xi need a card.
 
True.
 
>10S has built in brackting, the 7xi need a card.
 
True, but the bracketing provided by the card allows you to take 3,
5, or 7 exposures with variations down to 1/3 of a stop. Not just
3 exposures with a variation as small as 1/2 stop. Small concession
granted, but its there.
 
>10S have mirror lockup
 
Yeah, but only in the Self Timer mode (one of the only things I hate
about my 10s)
 
>DOF preview, no matter how many cards you buy for the 7xi, you can't
>have that.
 
True, but at the loss of partial metering.
 
>10s has 14 built in custom function, you need another card to change
>only some of the same features of the 7xi.
 
True, but how many of those 14 functions do you use, me personally
I only use #2 and #6 (I hate that beeper).
 
>10S has built in PIC modes, you need cards for them in 7xi.
 
As a stated above, thats not true.
 
>And "how many cards can the 7xi hold?" you ask, only 1!
 
And how many can the 10s hold NONE.
 
>And now consider that each of the cards cost around 20 bucks at least.
>That can become quite a large sum.
 
Only if you buy every card, and they all just aren't that useful to
buy them all.
 
I am not trying to make it look like a worthless piece of junk. It is
a wonderful camera.
 
And neither am I of the 10s, after all I did buy BOTH cameras. Of the
Minolta line, I only liked the 7xi (and now the 9xi), but of the Canon
EOS line, I have a Rebel S, and Elan, and a 10s.
 
>If I had the money, I'll probably get one.
 
Do so, its a useful camera.
 
>And Gary, if you read my first post right, I wasn't trying to compare
>the 10S and 7xi, I was trying to suggest a better alternative to the
>EOS Elan.
 
I did go back and read your post, and there was some 7xi bashing in
there, (I can't stand it when a good camera is put down, no matter who
the manufacturer is) and some erroneous info, so I felt it necessary
to comment on it.
 
Cheers......
 
Gary
 
P.S. please reply via email as well as via this newsgroup. Its the start
of the weekend, and I don't usually get on during the weekend, and your
reply might get expired by Monday morning.....thanks.
-- 
-----
Gary Snow
uunet!clark!gsnow  or  gsnow@clark.edu
Newsgroups: rec.photo