HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: alopez-o@neumann.uwaterloo.ca (Alex Lopez-Ortiz)
Subject: Re: Warning:  notorious Nazi apologist headed our way
Organization: University of Waterloo
Distribution: uw
Date: Fri, 28 Aug 1992 21:37:06 GMT

In article <Btpo2y.II8@watserv1.uwaterloo.ca>, bmaraldo@watserv1.uwaterloo.ca (Commander Brett Maraldo) writes:
> 	Your post about the Idaho thing was hardly convincing me that Idaho
> doesn't exist. 

Any one that read the introduction to the "Idaho posting" knows that it was not 
meant to convince. Here is the paragraph in question:

>As an example of the type of fallacies put forward by revisionists, I'm
>reposting this parody of their arguments. In this context their fallacies
>are self-evident.                         ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
 ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

But I think Brett is just trying to be obnoxious...  

-- 
Alex Lopez-Ortiz                              alopez-o@maytag.UWaterloo.ca
Deparment of Computer Science                       University of Waterloo
Waterloo, Ontario                                                   Canada
Newsgroups: uw.general,kw.general
From: hekunze@jeeves.uwaterloo.ca (Herb Kunze)
Subject: Re: Warning: notorious Nazi apologist headed our way
Organization: University of Waterloo
Date: Mon, 31 Aug 1992 17:43:48 GMT

In article <Btuux0.HH4@watserv1.uwaterloo.ca>, shallit@graceland.uwaterloo.ca (Jeffrey Shallit) writes:
> Mr. Irving is free to speak elsewhere, and does.

  But I get the feeling that this non-academic non-historian would not be 
  able to speak anywhere if Jeff Shallit had his way.  

  If someone claims something, then I look at the argument that "proves"
  it or the evidence that supports/refutes it and draw my own conclusions.  

  In the case of Rushton, I laughed.  In the case of the gender-difference
  brain-size study, I laughed.  In the case of a new study that "shows"
  that babies have a certain amount of innate mathematical ability, I
  laughed.  When presented with certain religious arguments over the years,
  I laughed.  In the past, when I've happened upon a morning talk show with
  guests that spouted certain controversial things, including fellows that 
  shared Irving's beliefs, I laughed.  When I hear some of the arguments
  that the Black Action Defence Committee or the National Action Committee
  for the Status of Women make, I laugh.  And in this case too, I would 
  most probably laugh. 
  
> Would Mr. Kunze welcome cranks coming to
> speak in his department?  I'm the colloquium chairman for the CS department:
> should colloquium slots be allocated to anyone, no matter how dishonest or 
> inept. 

  It's not really the nature of mathematical work to have controversial
  cranks.  Of course, one might argue that quantum mechanics folks are
  on the fringe.  ;-)  

> Keep an open mind, but not so open that your brains fall out.

  Thanks for the advice.  I really appreciate it.

                                                        Herb... 
Xref: sparky kw.general:333 ont.general:1741
From: geoff@zswamp.UUCP (Geoffrey Welsh)
Newsgroups: uw.general,kw.general,ont.general
Subject: Re: Warning:  notorious Nazi apologist headed our way
Date: Mon, 31 Aug 92 01:39:34 EDT
Organization: Izot's Swamp

idfriedm@hertz.uwaterloo.ca (id friedman) writes:

>  Simple. Because saying it didn't is invaraibly Anti-Semitism ( International
>  Jewish cnspiracy, etc...). This is out and out hatred of the kind that has
>  resulted in the murder  of millions.

   Is it?  In many cases it is, no doubt. Or is it, in some cases, a matter of 
exercising your right to question stories about things you didn't see 
yourself?

   You should not expect people to believe you because you say something any 
more than you should expect them to believe some Nazi because he says 
something!

>  Why the hell should I have to defend the fact that it happened!!

   Because you want people to believe that it did, but you don't want them to 
believe those who said that it didn't.

Geoffrey Welsh, 7 Strath Humber Court, Islington, Ontario, M9A 4C8 Canada
geoff@zswamp.uucp, [xenitec.on.ca|m2xenix.psg.com]!zswamp!geoff (416)258-8467
"Feel for the winter but don't have a cold heart" - Little River Band, "Lady"
Newsgroups: kw.general
From: vances@xenitec.on.ca (Vance Shipley)
Subject: Color printing service?
Organization: SwitchView Inc., Waterloo, Ontario
Date: Sun, 30 Aug 1992 16:27:43 GMT

Is there somewhere I can take/send my postscript files and have color
printing done?  I just want to get single copies or maybe transparencies.

-- 
Vance Shipley 
vances@xenitec.on.ca   vances@ltg.uucp   ..uunet.ca!xenitec!vances
Newsgroups: uw.general,kw.general
From: nick@sunburn.waterloo.edu (Nick Fitzpatrick)
Subject: Re: One Bedroom Apartment -- NO STUDENTS
Keywords: Cheap
Organization: University of Waterloo
Distribution: uw
Date: Mon, 31 Aug 1992 00:13:37 GMT

I am right in assuming that this type of discrimination is illegal, right?


Newsgroups: uw.general,kw.general
From: esutherl@undergrad.math.waterloo.edu (EC Sutherland)
Subject: Interested in learning how to play bridge?
Organization: University of Waterloo
Distribution: kw
Date: Fri, 28 Aug 1992 16:54:58 GMT

The Univerisity of Waterloo Bridge Club presents....

		Bridge Lessons for Beginners


Starting September 22nd, and 24th Beginner bridge lessons will be offered
for anyone interested. The time and place will be determined at a later time.
The course is taught by an Accredited teacher, and is Free to all undergrads,
and a nominal $10 charge for Faculty and grad students.

What do you get with this ***FREE*** course??

A study guide to help you along with the lessons. 
A T-shirt saying you are a real bridge player
A one-month introductory membership to the American Contract Bridge League.
And more...

How do you get involved with this incredible program?

Just e-mail me, Eric Sutherland at esutherland@descartes.uwaterloo.edu

Space is limited so reply today.


-- 
I was here but now I'm gone.
Newsgroups: uw.general,kw.general,ont.general
From: mskucher@math.uwaterloo.ca (Murray S. Kucherawy [MFCF])
Subject: Re: Enoughs Enough (was Re: Warning: notorious Nazi...)
Organization: Math Faculty Computing Facility, University of Waterloo, Canada
Distribution: uw
Date: Fri, 28 Aug 1992 19:31:39 GMT

bmaraldo@watserv1.uwaterloo.ca (Commander Brett Maraldo) writes:
>	This has nothing directly to do with Irving.  I had to post something
>about this last statement because it really made me angy.  Just because someone
>hasn't had 'training' doesn't mean they aren't legitimate at what they do.  I,
>for one, learn more on my own and without opportunity for certificate.  I am
>a musician and composer with no training.  I study General Relativity with
>no formal training.  I repair digital electronics, with no training.  I have
>successfully written a string quartet, repaired numerous electronics and written
>a thesis on General Relativity... with no formal training.  Can I not claim
>that I am a composer, electronics repair person and Relativist?  

You can't go around trying to convince people that you are a licensed
electronics repair person, which I imagine is the best analogy.  That would
be misleading, because it's not true, right?
Newsgroups: uw.general,kw.general
From: vhtodd@watcgl.uwaterloo.ca (Val (Todd) Hay)
Subject: One Bedroom Apartment -- NO STUDENTS
Keywords: Cheap
Organization: Computer Graphics Laboratory, University of Waterloo, Ontario, Canada
Distribution: uw
Date: Sat, 29 Aug 1992 15:48:16 GMT

ONE BEDROOM APARTMENT

Location: 50 Central Street, Waterloo
        (close to downtown)

Rent:  $328 plus hydro

Misc.:  In basement of 6 unit apartment
	building.  Nice size windows.
	Dehumidifier provided.

Available:  OCTOBER 1st

CALL: Irene Marschuetz  885-6639
From: gculley@riipsdev (Geoff Culley)
Newsgroups: kw.general
Subject: WANTED: Sansui 6-track recorder (MR-6)
Date: 28 Aug 92 22:37:11 GMT
Organization: NCR Canada Ltd., Waterloo, Ont.


Does anybody have a Sansui MR-6 6-track recorder that they would like
to unload? Please email me with a price.

-- Geoff Culley (gculley@riipsdev.waterloo.ncr.com)


Newsgroups: uw.general,kw.general,ont.general
From: alopez-o@neumann.uwaterloo.ca (Alex Lopez-Ortiz)
Subject: Re: Warning: notorious Nazi apologist headed our way
Organization: University of Waterloo
Distribution: uw
Date: Fri, 28 Aug 1992 16:17:13 GMT

In article <Btp3FJ.95z@watcgl.uwaterloo.ca>, ejdavies@watcgl.uwaterloo.ca (Eric Davies) writes:
> shallit@graceland.uwaterloo.ca (Jeffrey Shallit) writes:
> 
> >I have just learned that David Irving, notorious holocaust denier and
> >Hitler apologist, is scheduled to speak in our area in November.
> >To make it worse, a store on King Street in Kitchener is promoting his
> >talk in their store window, and selling tickets.
>                                  ^^^^^^^
> People are actually going to PAY REAL MONEY to listen to this hoser? 
> I hope he's underestimating the intelligence of the lowest common 
> denominator here. Be wonderfully amusing if his costs exceeded his
> take.

Though your sentence would undoubtly apply in Waterloo, it may not be
the same for Kitchener.

According to sources that shall remain unnamed, European Sound claims to 
have a sizable mailing list of neo-nazi german emigrees in Kitchener.




-- 
Alex Lopez-Ortiz                              alopez-o@maytag.UWaterloo.ca
Deparment of Computer Science                       University of Waterloo
Waterloo, Ontario                                                   Canada
Newsgroups: uw.general,kw.general,ont.general
From: bmaraldo@watserv1.uwaterloo.ca (Commander Brett Maraldo)
Subject: Re: Warning:  notorious Nazi apologist headed our way
Organization: Unit 36 Research
Distribution: uw
Date: Sat, 29 Aug 1992 02:41:13 GMT

In article <Btpqpw.528@math.uwaterloo.ca> alopez-o@neumann.uwaterloo.ca (Alex Lopez-Ortiz) writes:
>
>But I think Brett is just trying to be obnoxious...  

	Ok ok.  It's true.  I am just trying to be obnoxious.  Sorry, I'll
cut it out.  :-)

Brett



-- 
               --------     Unit 36 Research     ---------
	                "Alien Technology Today"
  	 	      bmaraldo@watserv1.UWaterloo.ca
  	           {uunet!clyde!utai}!watserv1!bmaraldo
Newsgroups: uw.general,kw.general,ont.general
From: abrodnik@watdragon.uwaterloo.ca
Subject: Re: Warning:  notorious Nazi apologist headed our way
Organization: University of Waterloo
Distribution: uw
Date: Fri, 28 Aug 1992 04:38:25 GMT

In article <BtnxAx.9nv@watserv1.uwaterloo.ca> shallit@graceland.uwaterloo.ca (Jeffrey Shallit) writes:
>
>Here are just some of the things Irving has claimed:
>	
>	* that the Holocaust never took place.
>	
>	* that the gas chambers at Auschwitz were built by the Poles
>	during the second world war as a "tourist attraction".
>
>	* that the diaries of Anne Frank are a forgery.

			       [ ... ]

So, now I know. My wife's grandfather lost his life in one of these
"tourist attractions" and my grandfather was for four years on
"vacations".-(

>P. S.  Although I detest Irving and his views, I nevertheless
>support his right to speak.  But the Hotel Bayrischer Hof and
>European Sound Import are not compelled to give him a forum,
>and I have every right to express my displeasure at their choices.
>So do you.

I completely agree that he has all right speak, but does he has right
to spread lies? Somehow I can't understand this.

Best regards,

Andrej
Newsgroups: uw.general,kw.general
From: rcrispin@watarts.uwaterloo.ca (Richard Crispin)
Subject: Re: Warning: notorious Nazi apologist headed our way
Organization: University of Waterloo
Date: Mon, 31 Aug 1992 17:54:56 GMT

In article <Btuux0.HH4@watserv1.uwaterloo.ca> shallit@graceland.uwaterloo.ca (Jeffrey Shallit) writes:
>I welcome honest researchers with controversial views.  I don't generally
>welcome hate-mongers, liars, and convicted criminals.  Irving is all three.
                                  ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>
>Keep an open mind, but not so open that your brains fall out.
>
>Jeff Shallit

I agree with everything that Jeff has said except for the above indicated item.
Many "convicted criminals" have reformed and are now productive members of our
society and I am sure the University community. Being convicted of a crime does
not make you an evil person who should be an outcast. It doesn't even mean you
are actually guilty as the Donald Marshall case revealed.

Richard Crispin
Department of Psychology    email:rcrispin@watarts.uwaterloo.ca
Univeristy of Waterloo            psych@watserv1.uwaterloo.ca
Waterloo, Ontario           phone:(519)888-4781  or 885-1211 ext. 4781
Canada   N2L 3G1            fax:(519)746-8631
Newsgroups: uw.general,kw.general,ont.general
From: shallit@graceland.uwaterloo.ca (Jeffrey Shallit)
Subject: Warning:  notorious Nazi apologist headed our way
Organization: University of Waterloo
Distribution: uw
Date: Thu, 27 Aug 1992 22:04:08 GMT


I have just learned that David Irving, notorious holocaust denier and
Hitler apologist, is scheduled to speak in our area in November.
To make it worse, a store on King Street in Kitchener is promoting his
talk in their store window, and selling tickets.

Here are just some of the things Irving has claimed:
	
	* that the Holocaust never took place.
	
	* that the gas chambers at Auschwitz were built by the Poles
	during the second world war as a "tourist attraction".

	* that the diaries of Anne Frank are a forgery.

These are just a few in a long list of Irving's lies:

	* in 1970, he was sued successfully for false statements
	about the Arctic convoy PQ 17.  He had to pay 40,000 British pounds.

	* in his recent translation of Goebbels' diaries, he omitted lines
	that contradicted his thesis that Hitler knew nothing about the
	extermination process; this was discovered by a reporter
	from the Independent.

	* in May 1992, he was fined DM 10,000 by a Munich court for
	"defaming the memory of the dead".  The judge ruled that the
	gas chambers at Auschwitz were "an historically certain fact".

Why is Irving dangerous?  He has strong ties to neo-Nazi groups 
in Germany and elsewhere.  You may have heard about what is happening
now in Rostock, Germany:  neo-Nazis and skinheads have attacked refugees
fleeing from Eastern Europe.  This is the kind of the thing that is
*actively* encouraged by Irving.

	* in June 1984, he gave lectures to outlawed neo-Nazi groups in
	Australia.

	* in 1989, his speech before a Toronto audience drew a crowd
	of 450 cheering people.

	* in November 1991, he was shown on TV speaking to a rally of
	neo-Nazis in Halle, saying their numbers would double and double
	in the next few years, as the crowd chanted "Sieg Heil".

What can you do?

	* Call the Hotel Bayrischer Hof in Milton, Ontario at
	(416) 878-1110.  Ask for the manager and tell him you
	are displeased that they have agreed to host Irving's talk.

	* Call European Sound Import, at (519) 578-3710 in Kitchener.
	Tell them you are displeased that they are selling tickets
	to Irving's talk.


P. S.  Although I detest Irving and his views, I nevertheless
support his right to speak.  But the Hotel Bayrischer Hof and
European Sound Import are not compelled to give him a forum,
and I have every right to express my displeasure at their choices.
So do you.


Newsgroups: uw.general,kw.general,ont.general
From: ejdavies@watcgl.uwaterloo.ca (Eric Davies)
Subject: Re: Warning: notorious Nazi apologist headed our way
Organization: Computer Graphics Laboratory, University of Waterloo, Ontario, Canada
Distribution: uw
Date: Fri, 28 Aug 1992 13:14:06 GMT

shallit@graceland.uwaterloo.ca (Jeffrey Shallit) writes:

>I have just learned that David Irving, notorious holocaust denier and
>Hitler apologist, is scheduled to speak in our area in November.
>To make it worse, a store on King Street in Kitchener is promoting his
>talk in their store window, and selling tickets.
                                 ^^^^^^^
People are actually going to PAY REAL MONEY to listen to this hoser? 
I hope he's underestimating the intelligence of the lowest common 
denominator here. Be wonderfully amusing if his costs exceeded his
take.

Eric
Newsgroups: uw.general,kw.general,ont.general
From: shallit@graceland.uwaterloo.ca (Jeffrey Shallit)
Subject: Re: Warning: notorious Nazi apologist headed our way
Organization: University of Waterloo
Distribution: uw
Date: Fri, 28 Aug 1992 16:42:04 GMT

In article <Btp3FJ.95z@watcgl.uwaterloo.ca> ejdavies@watcgl.uwaterloo.ca (Eric Davies) writes:
>shallit@graceland.uwaterloo.ca (Jeffrey Shallit) writes:
>
>>I have just learned that David Irving, notorious holocaust denier and
>>Hitler apologist, is scheduled to speak in our area in November.
>>To make it worse, a store on King Street in Kitchener is promoting his
>>talk in their store window, and selling tickets.
>                                 ^^^^^^^
>People are actually going to PAY REAL MONEY to listen to this hoser? 
>I hope he's underestimating the intelligence of the lowest common 
>denominator here. Be wonderfully amusing if his costs exceeded his
>take.
>
>Eric

Don't underestimate Irving--he's more dangerous than you might think.

He last spoke in Canada in 1989.  According to the Globe & Mail
for March 6, 1989, his talk "sparked spontaneous cheering and
clapping from 450 people who packed a Toronto hall".  He testified
for the defense in the Zundel case in 1988 (which was
overturned by yesterday's Supreme Court decision).  At that time, the
"$10 tickets for the speech were advertised in community newspapers such
as the Deutsche Press, a German-language newspaper".  

He had been invited to speak to the Carleton University history department
in 1989, but that invitation was cancelled when they found out who
he really was.  Similarly, a talk before the Royal Military Institute 
in Toronto was cancelled when they found out his real message.
According to the Globe & Mail (March 8, 1989), "Col. Hardie said
the institute was unaware of Mr. Irving's controversial [sic] views."

Irving masquerades as an historian, even though he has no historical
training.  This has fooled several organizations into taking him seriously
and inviting him to speak.  At $10 a person, that can be real money.

Jeff Shallit
Newsgroups: uw.general,kw.general,ont.general
From: idfriedm@hertz.uwaterloo.ca (id friedman)
Subject: Re: Warning:  notorious Nazi apologist headed our way
Organization: University of Waterloo
Date: Sun, 30 Aug 1992 19:51:56 GMT

In article <kwy9PB17w165w@zswamp.UUCP> geoff@zswamp.UUCP (Geoffrey Welsh) writes:
>abrodnik@watdragon.uwaterloo.ca writes:
>
>> I completely agree that he has all right speak, but does he has right
>> to spread lies? Somehow I can't understand this.
>
>   I do, even though my aunt still has the brand on her arm.
>
>   I don't wish to go into the philosophical question of "what is truth", but 
>I do want to ask you: how do you know what is a lie and what is true?  You 
>don't know it by the words of a story itself; you examine the sides and 
>determine which is supported by facts. 
>
>   I honestly believe that surpressing an argument gives it credit; if, in 
>fact, the Holocaust happened, why are so many people trying to silence whose 
 ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>who say that it didn't?  My answer is that they suffer from pain, grief, self-
 ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

 Simple. Because saying it didn't is invaraibly Anti-Semitism ( International
 Jewish cnspiracy, etc...). This is out and out hatred of the kind that has
 resulted in the murder  of millions.

 Why the hell should I have to defend the fact that it happened!! Why the hell
 should I have to yell and scream that there *** isn't *** an international
 Jewish conspiracy??? Should blacks have to prove that they were slaves?
                            
>righteousness, and anger... but those who follow Irving have their own answer: 
>because they are afraid that the truth, which contradicts their story, will 
>come out. 
>
>   I know that I am convinced the Holocaust happened, and I'd much rather that 
>those who can prove it would do so publicly rather than try to silence idiots 
>like the one whose appearance started this thread.  We shouldn't need to prove 
>it time and time again, but we do.  The cost of freedom is challenge, and the 
>cost of suppressing those who question and challenge is fierce, mindless 
>opposition. 
>
>   That pretty much sums it up: as long as our tactic is fierce, self-
>righteous, mindless suppression of the lies, then surely we should not be 
>surprised that the liars fight back with the same ferocity, self-
>righteousness... and mindlessness.  The enemy is no more than a mirrored image 
>of ourselves; let us therefore judge carefully how *we* react!
>
>Geoffrey Welsh, 7 Strath Humber Court, Islington, Ontario, M9A 4C8 Canada
>geoff@zswamp.uucp, [xenitec.on.ca|m2xenix.psg.com]!zswamp!geoff (416)258-8467
>"Feel for the winter but don't have a cold heart" - Little River Band, "Lady"

Ishay 
Xref: sparky kw.general:324 ont.general:1733
From: geoff@zswamp.UUCP (Geoffrey Welsh)
Newsgroups: uw.general,kw.general,ont.general
Subject: Re: Warning:  notorious Nazi apologist headed our way
Date: Fri, 28 Aug 92 22:46:43 EDT
Organization: Izot's Swamp

abrodnik@watdragon.uwaterloo.ca writes:

> I completely agree that he has all right speak, but does he has right
> to spread lies? Somehow I can't understand this.

   I do, even though my aunt still has the brand on her arm.

   I don't wish to go into the philosophical question of "what is truth", but 
I do want to ask you: how do you know what is a lie and what is true?  You 
don't know it by the words of a story itself; you examine the sides and 
determine which is supported by facts. 

   I honestly believe that surpressing an argument gives it credit; if, in 
fact, the Holocaust happened, why are so many people trying to silence whose 
who say that it didn't?  My answer is that they suffer from pain, grief, self-
righteousness, and anger... but those who follow Irving have their own answer: 
because they are afraid that the truth, which contradicts their story, will 
come out. 

   I know that I am convinced the Holocaust happened, and I'd much rather that 
those who can prove it would do so publicly rather than try to silence idiots 
like the one whose appearance started this thread.  We shouldn't need to prove 
it time and time again, but we do.  The cost of freedom is challenge, and the 
cost of suppressing those who question and challenge is fierce, mindless 
opposition. 

   That pretty much sums it up: as long as our tactic is fierce, self-
righteous, mindless suppression of the lies, then surely we should not be 
surprised that the liars fight back with the same ferocity, self-
righteousness... and mindlessness.  The enemy is no more than a mirrored image 
of ourselves; let us therefore judge carefully how *we* react!

Geoffrey Welsh, 7 Strath Humber Court, Islington, Ontario, M9A 4C8 Canada
geoff@zswamp.uucp, [xenitec.on.ca|m2xenix.psg.com]!zswamp!geoff (416)258-8467
"Feel for the winter but don't have a cold heart" - Little River Band, "Lady"
Newsgroups: uw.general,kw.general,uw.forsale,kw.forsale
From: nkkwan@undergrad.math.waterloo.edu (Thomas Kwan Nang Kon)
Subject: ADDing RAMs...
Organization: University of Waterloo
Distribution: uw
Date: Fri, 4 Sep 1992 19:36:36 GMT


 I have a Bondwell B310sx laptop computer. I want to add one more RAm to it.
CAn anyone suggest me which computer shop provide this sevirce in K-W area ?

Newsgroups: uw.general,kw.general