HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: rangarajan-anand@CS.YALE.EDU (Anand Rangarajan)
Newsgroups: soc.religion.eastern
Subject: Re: Questions
Date: 11 Apr 92 16:38:46 GMT
Organization: Yale University, Department of Computer Science

|> 1) If someone asked you, What is enlightenment?, what would you tell them? 
|> 

	That enlightenment is a return to one's original nature. A natural
state of being in which there is no separate sense of ``I'' and ``the real
world''.

|> 2) If someone asked you how they might practically go about discovering
|>    such a realization for themselves, what advice would you give them?  
|> 

	That first of all, you can't. Enlightenment is that which is always,
already the condition and you can't go somewhere to get it. Having said that, 
the advice I would give them is to continuously keep asking ``Who am I''
and to get involved in a spiritual tradition which is based on the
eradication of the separate self sense by either expanding awareness beyond
the ego or ``by letting God strike down the ego''.


|> 3) If someone asked you to honestly state your own current level of spiritual 
|>    understanding or realization, what would be your answer?  
|> 

	I would say that my current level of understanding is a somewhat
spontaneous level of detachment towards my own thoughts. I can usually 
pay attention to the way thoughts pop in and out of awareness without 
much attachment to their actual content. Also, being a researcher in 
computer vision, I can usually destabilize my color and shape segmentation
but not object constancy and depth while in meditation.


Anand Rangarajan
rangarajan-anand@cs.yale.edu
Newsgroups: soc.religion.eastern
From: johnw@farside.eng.ready.com (John Wheeler)
Subject: Questions
Organization: Ready Systems
Date: Thu, 9 Apr 92 21:36:26 GMT

I would like to propose the following questions for discussion.

1) If someone asked you, What is enlightenment?, what would you tell them? 

2) If someone asked you how they might practically go about discovering
   such a realization for themselves, what advice would you give them?  

3) If someone asked you to honestly state your own current level of spiritual 
   understanding or realization, what would be your answer?  

If anyone could respond with a few comments (not more than a paragraph or
so) on each question, I would be interested. I would like to request that
responses be expressed in simple english with as few technical terms as
possible. Quoting authoritative texts is OK, but I would like to request
that you quote only something that is your own direct personal experience.

Thanks.
From: sanders@iitmax.iit.edu
Subject: Delays in posting articles
Organization: Illinois Institute of Technology
Date: Fri, 10 Apr 92 16:32:23 GMT

Our newsfeed was down for a time, for work done at the site that
feeds us.  Naturally, the backlog of articles is pouring in.
This is swamping the free space in our Usenet spooling directory
(disk space).  There have been occasional periods of a day during
the past few days when I was unable to post submissions because of
this lack of spooling disk space.  I am told this may persist for a 
few more days and may recur.  So, postings may be delayed for a day 
or two unexpectedly.  Sorry about that.

                                      -- Greg
From: ddehay@triton.unm.edu (David B. DeHay)
Newsgroups: soc.religion.eastern
Subject: Communes anyone?
Date: 14 Apr 92 21:43:57 GMT
Article-I.D.: iitmax.1992Apr14.214357.23760
Organization: University of New Mexico, Albuquerque


     I am very interested in learning about any experiences anyone
might have had living in a communal setting whether it was 
spiritual or not.  Were there any problems?  Was it what you expected
or felt you needed?  Was there a dominant leader and was this OK
with everyone?  Any "ashram" experiences?
     E-mail or post responses depending on your preference.

			Thanks,
-- 
                        David B. DeHay
     University of New Mexico   e-mail: ddehay@triton.unm.edu
From: johnw@ready.eng.ready.com (John Wheeler)
Newsgroups: soc.religion.eastern
Subject: More questions from John Wheeler
Date: 15 Apr 92 19:57:46 GMT
Organization: ----

In article <1992Apr14.085948.8255@iitmax.iit.edu> of soc.religion.eastern
Toshi Takeuchi stated:

>>Well, telling the world or others that yeah I attained this state 
>>described by such and such only builds up your ego.  It does no good to
>>                                               ^^^
>>others by saying this.

>>It can hinder your development in thinking this because you are
>>just pumping up your ego rather than being of any service.
>>                     ^^^

>>The evaluation that I'm a spiritual being because I feel my heart is hogwash.
>>It's only ego that's preening.
            ^^^

In the interest of focussing the discussion, I would like to ask: 
If someone, not necessarily of a spiritual bent, just a typical person on 
the street, were to ask you the following questions, how would you respond? 

1. What do you mean by the word "ego"?

2. How do you personally experience your ego?

3. Do you use meditation to overcome your ego?

4. To what degree has meditation helped you be free of your ego?

   A. Not at all
   B. Partially
   C. My ego still comes and goes
   D. It mostly comes
   E. It mostly goes
   F. Mostly free of my ego 
   G. I have completely overcome the ego


I would be grateful for any responses. A few words or sentences on these
questions would be helpful to me (and maybe others). Since not every is
familiar with all spiritual traditions and technical terms they use, I
would like to ask that responses use ordinary language. Thanks. 
Newsgroups: soc.religion.eastern
From: tt@wag.caltech.edu (Toshi Takeuchi)
Subject: Simple breathing exercise
Summary: Guaranteed to stop stuffy noses and hay fever.
Keywords: pranayama
Organization: California Institute of Technology, Pasadena, CA
Date: Wed, 15 Apr 92 22:34:52 GMT

Getting back to some more practices, I'll give you a simple breathing
exercise I learned from a friend.

To give you some background, before I started using this breathing
exercise, I had terrible hay fever, I had a stuffy nose 3/4 of the
year, I took sudafed all the time, but it never did any good.

I even took those nasal sprays but they also lost their effectiveness.

Basically, I was addicted to decongestants.

I did this breathing exercise, and within 6 months (along with meditation,
which I discovered at the same time) I hardly ever had stuffy noses
and rarely see any symptoms of hay fever.

I said guaranteed to stop stuffy noses and hay fever in the summary.  Well,
it worked for me, and so I imagine it will work for you if you do it
consistently.

Besides, this exercise only takes 5 min anyhow.  I usually do it before
I go to sleep and before meditations.  Once a day is probably good.

--------

The first step toward breathing is to learn to breathe through your
stomach using your diaphragm.  Of course your chest will also
rise, but it should be in conjunction with the diaphragm.

Place your hand on your belly and when you breathe, you should feel
your diaphragm rising and falling.

If you breathe only through your chest, then you are losing out on alot
of your lung capacity.

If you practice this breathing exercise with this better breathing technique,
which allows for greater use of lung capacity, then you will
begin to breathe using the diaphragm naturally.

-------

The technique (really simple):

Place one hand on the stomach if you need to practice breathing with your
diaphragm.

Take your other hand and close off one nostril with your thumb (or forefinger).
Push the air out of your lungs using your diaphragm and relax
the stomach and allow air to reenter the lungs.

Close off the other nostril (and open the one that was previously closed)
and repeat.  (pushing the air our of lungs, and relax the stomach
and allow air to reenter lungs)

This should be done in two stages.

Stage one about one minute:

quickly alternating the breath through each nostril
probably 2 breaths per second. (of course just a ballpark suggestion)
(I consider a breath an out (in) cycle)

out (in) switch_nostril out (in) switch_nostril etc...


Stage two, two to three minutes:

take slower, longer breaths alternating through each nostril
probably 1 breath every 3-4 seconds or so.

----

The important point to note is that the breathing out stage
is the only time that any effort has to be made.  The stomach should
relax as you breathe in and no effort is necessary.

So there you have it, 3-4 minutes a day, and after a few months, easy
breathing.   Of course good breathing isn't the only benefit, but
it's a good enough reason for me to continue doing it.

Toshi
tt@wag.caltech.edu
From: lefty@apple.com (Lefty)
Newsgroups: soc.religion.eastern
Subject: Re: Any Gelupas out there?
Date: 17 Apr 92 03:56:47 GMT
Organization: Our Lady of Heavy Artillery

[ Note:  This article was delayed several days due to an error.  Sorry.
         I misnamed it, and therefore overlooked it.    -- Greg ]
.............................................................................

In article <1992Mar31.064802.29404@iitmax.iit.edu>, pjm@cshl.org (Pat Monardo)
writes:
> 
> Furthermore, I would like to discuss just who the Dalai Lama
> is, spirutually speaking. At the New York Kalachakra, people
> were calling him Buddha.

The Dalai Lama is held to be an incarnation of Chenrezig (Avalokiteshvara).

--
Lefty (lefty@apple.com)
C:.M:.C:., D:.O:.D:.
From: raj@globe1.att.com (Rajendra P Sharma)
Newsgroups: soc.religion.eastern
Subject: Ramana Maharshi and Buddhist Thought
Date: 7 Apr 92 08:01:12 GMT
Organization: AT&T

Roger writes:

> >You quoted Sri Ramana Maharshi and said you were aware that what he
> >said was not current Buddhist thought.  This bit of seeing into
> >the delusion of i and the fact that all there is is I, is very
> >Zen, but in different language.

> >  "i thought" is not at all the same as "I thought" though.
      --------------------------------------------------------
     [ just as I am is not at all the same as I-AM]

> >i thought gets slain with insight
> >into the non-existence of the separate self, or separate anything.
> >I thought doesn't really translate into language [easily, though.]

	"I thought" doesn't translate into language. PERIOD.

> When you say "I thought ..." who is the "I"? Can you say "I thought.."
> or "I did..." or "I want..." without first have "I"?

> >There is no enduring self to be reborn/reincarnated.  That's the
> >same thing in yet another different garb of language.

> You are starting to sound like me. "same thing in yet another
> different garb of language".

	Aha, how marvelous; this meeting [of minds]
	when stepping beyond the "illusion of words (Sabdjaal)"
	     takes place.
	
	That is the first step.
	Then, beyond all illusions,
	All IS ONE - The SELF.
	
	When all is one, where is this thought or that?
	                 Where is Buddha or Ramana?
	                 Where is you or me?
	                 Who sees whom?
			 Who seeks whom? and How?
			 Only the SELF.
			 Only the SELF.
			 ONLY the SELF.
			
			
---raj
From: radams@cerritos.edu
Newsgroups: soc.religion.eastern
Subject: Re: Questions on Experience
Date: 17 Apr 92 04:11:47 GMT
Organization: Cerritos College, Norwalk CA

In Article: <1992Apr14.031722.17965@iitmax.iit.edu>
johnw@farside.eng.ready.com (John Wheeler) asks:

>1. What form of meditation do you utilize?

I practice the techniques of meditation taught by Self-Realization Fellowship
which are generally referred to as Kriya Yoga.

>2. What is your actual experience in meditation? 

In meditation, one finds increasing peace and bliss. 

>3. How would you describe your experiences in relation to what you 
>   consider to be a fully enlightened state?

Full awakening from this dream is yet to happen.

>4. If you feel your current experience does not match your vision of full
>   enlightenment, how do you account for this? 

Still dreaming.     

>5. Honestly assessing your responses above, and in the light of your current
>   level of experience and understanding, do you think you will realize
>   enlightenment? If so, when? 

If you feel you are not enlightened, you are dreaming. What kind of answer
are you looking for when you ask "when?", do you want someone to say
"a week from next Thursday"? or "20 lifetimes from now"? or "give me another
30 minutes"?

Truth already is and full realization of it comes when your "dream's dream
is done".
                           
"Whence do they come here?
Wither do they flit away?
In all follies dark sway,
keep floating on hope's way.
Take the dust of each one's feet,
serving Mother where She sleeps.
When my dream's dream is done,
She will lift me on Her lap."

[from Cosmic Chants by Paramahansa Yogananda]



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
	Roger Adams
	radams@cerritos.edu               To those in whom love dwells,
	Cerritos College                  the whole world is one family.
	11110 Alondra Blvd                             A Hindu Proverb
        Norwalk, California 90650
	USA        		          292 Dwapara :-)
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: raj@globe1.att.com (Rajendra P Sharma)
Newsgroups: soc.religion.eastern
Subject: Re: looking
Date: 16 Apr 92 15:17:39 GMT
Organization: AT&T

Marc writes:

> CREATIVITY IS IN THE UNMOTIVATED VIEWING WHERE THE SUBJECT IS FORGOTTEN.

WONDERFUL! [but how easily missed; thanks for the reminder].


---raj
From: cmgrawbu@eos.ncsu.edu (CHRISTOPHER M GRAWBURG)
Newsgroups: soc.religion.eastern
Subject: Krishna is "Nice"
Date: 7 Apr 92 21:04:23 GMT
Article-I.D.: iitmax.1992Apr7.210423.7718
Organization: Project EOS - North Carolina State University

Hello again!

First let me say that this question is not intended to pick on anyone
or poke fun at any one religion.

I have talked to a Hare Krishna for several months and have read several
books about Krishna Consciousness. When I was in Los Angeles I noticed
the same thing...Here goes...

Why is it that Krishna devotees use the word "nice" so much.
I have noticed that the word nice is used for so many things
in these books and is used constantly by devotees.

Can anyone shed some light on this??


Chris
From: 75742@novell1.rz.fht-mannheim.de (Marc Wachowitz)
Newsgroups: soc.religion.eastern
Subject: Re: Questions on Experience
Date: 14 Apr 92 09:02:33 GMT
Organization: ----

John Wheeler <johnw@farside.eng.ready.com> wrote:
> These responses have deepened my interest in the topic of experience vs.
> theoretical knowledge.
So now you want more theoretical knowledge about the topic? :-))

> 1. What form of meditation do you utilize?
Being aware of life (not restricted to just "inside" or "outside");
sometimes sitting in half-lotos position when I feel like doing it (not
regularly).

> 2. What is your actual experience in meditation?
Everyday life - like now typing e-mail. Noticing the beauty that lies in
"ordinary" situations.

> 3. How would you describe your experiences in relation to what you
>    consider to be a fully enlightened state?
I don't consider it.

> 4. If you feel your current experience does not match your vision of full
>    enlightenment, how do you account for this?
>   E. Other
See 2./3.

> 5. Honestly assessing your responses above, and in the light of your current
>    level of experience and understanding, do you think you will realize
>    enlightenment? If so, when?
Huh?
[honestly]
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Marc Wachowitz                               75742@novell1.rz.fht-mannheim.de
   *   wonder everyday   *   nothing in particular   *   all is special   *
Newsgroups: soc.religion.eastern
From: raj@globe1.att.com (Rajendra P Sharma)
Newsgroups: soc.religion.eastern
Subject: Re: The absence of True Self
Date: 7 Apr 92 08:02:48 GMT
Organization: AT&T

Tagi responds [to an alledged quote from Buddha]:

> Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the Law.
> The word of Sin is Restriction.

> ... quotes the Buddha, I respond and perhaps jumble it up a bit:

> The Lazy Dude then made some passing remarks to his five friends
> on the presence of the True Self in everything that the senses or
> the mind can grasp.

> The body, friends, IS the self, as much as any self you are likely to
> find.  It lasts longer, it seems more real, it has weakness, it changes.
> Whoever said that the self cannot change?  And who says that because
> a thing is not subject to anguish that it is 1) real or 2) the way we want
> it to be?  No, the Buddha was talking out of both sides of hir mouth.
> 
> There is the path of the Busibody, there is the Path of the Laze.  The
> Busibuddha goes for the gusto, tries for 'enlightenment' and must reach
> the end of such a path.  For the Laze, the body is sufficient.

> Yin or Yang?    Nirvana or Samsara?  What do YOU think?

> The Buddha was talking to yes-men, not monks.

> Another ridiculous question.  Asking for absolutes in a sea of impermanence.

> Buddha and responding animals: "That is impossible, Lord."

> Considering this, O friends, the lowly Laze takes all as Master and
> turns toward the body, feelings, perceptions, predispositions, and
> discriminative consciousness.  Turning toward them, she becomes
> able to see the difference between craving and living; through being
> able to release craving she becomes liberated; and in hir who is 
> liberated the knowledge arises:  'I am free; rebirth is an oversimplification;
> life is to be lived, nothing else; there is nothing to do; so much nothing
> to do that I better get out there and have some fun real soon!


> Thus spoke nobody important from the background.  Not written about in any
> book, not retold to countless followers, perhaps not that interesting to
> all concerned.


Very well said. What a marvellous response.
                (haven't had such a good laugh from netnews in years).
		[for the mind readers: this is not a sarcasm]

Thanks from a lazen dude.

---raj
From: vwi@dretor.dciem.dnd.ca (Vanessa Williams)
Newsgroups: soc.religion.eastern
Subject: Re: Questions
Date: 14 Apr 92 21:43:19 GMT
Article-I.D.: iitmax.1992Apr14.214319.15836
Organization: Defence and Civil Institute of Environmental Medicine


In article <1992Apr9.213626.19123@iitmax.iit.edu> johnw@farside.eng.ready.com (John Wheeler) writes:
>1) If someone asked you, What is enlightenment?, what would you tell them? 

My response would be:
1) I honestly don't know. Even if I did, what could I tell you about it
- "The Tao that can be spoken of is not the true Tao".
2) Why are you asking me? Find out for yourself. [Which leads to...]

>2) If someone asked you how they might practically go about discovering
>   such a realization for themselves, what advice would you give them?  

Giving advice on such a thing is tricky, but I'd probably reply with:
1) Find a spiritual *practice* which suits you. Reading books alone will
   get you nowhere.
2) I would encourage them to get in touch with a true teacher for some
   really meaningful advice. [I'll leave the question of how to find
   such a teacher - that issue's been done to death in this group
   :-)]

>3) If someone asked you to honestly state your own current level of spiritual 
>   understanding or realization, what would be your answer?  

My answer:
I don't know and it doesn't matter. The important thing is just that
one is firmly on the path. I have no idea how many lifetimes I've been
walking. I have no idea how many lifetimes I have to go.

>Thanks.

Peace,

	Vanessa.
Newsgroups: soc.religion.eastern
From: ddehay@triton.unm.edu (David B. DeHay)
Subject: Communes anyone?
Organization: University of New Mexico, Albuquerque
Date: Wed, 15 Apr 92 19:44:36 GMT

     I am very interested in learning about any experiences anyone
might have had living in a communal setting whether it was 
spiritual or not.  Were there any problems?  Was it what you expected
or felt you needed?  Was there a dominant leader and was this OK
with everyone?  Any "ashram" experiences?
     E-mail or post responses depending on your preference.

			Thanks,
-- 
                        David B. DeHay
     University of New Mexico   e-mail: ddehay@triton.unm.edu
From: sanders@iitmax.iit.edu
Newsgroups: soc.religion.eastern
Subject: Delay was a day longer than planned
Date: 7 Apr 92 08:13:44 GMT
Organization: ----

I had said postings would be delayed until Sunday night.
The delay lasted a day longer than planned.  Sorry.
The backlog has all been posted now.

                              -- Greg
From: raj@globe1.att.com (Rajendra P Sharma)
Newsgroups: soc.religion.eastern
Subject: One Man's Pleasure [An Indian Folktale]
Keywords: "Perceptions of Truth," or "How all depends on the Subject"
Date: 14 Apr 92 03:21:21 GMT
Organization: AT&T


                            One Man's Pleasure


       A man from the city of Kabul  in  Afghanistan  once  visited
       India.   Walking  along  an  Indian  street,  he  came  to a
       sweetmeat shop whare all sorts of sweets of different shapes
       and sizes were neatly displayed.

       He knew only a one or two words of Hindustani. He went up to
       the vendor of sweets and pointed at one particular kind that
       looked especially delicious. The man thought he  was  asking
       its  name  and  said, "Khaja." [The word means both "sweets"
       and "eat it up"]. The man from Kabul knew  only  the  second
       meaning  and  so he fell to, grabbing handfuls of sweets and
       gobbling them up with pleasure.

       The vendor of sweets asked the stranger to pay for them. But
       the visitor didn't understand what he was saying and happily
       wandered away. The angry vendor complained  to  the  police,
       who  came and arrested the man from Kabul. The chief officer
       ordered that his head should be  shaved  clean  and  covered
       with  tar, and that he should be mounted on a donkey and run
       out of town in a procession to the sound of drums,  so  that
       everyone  would  know  how  a lawbreaker is punished in that
       part  of  the  world.  Though  this  is  considered   brutal
       punishment  in India, the man from Kabul thought it was fun.
       He even felt charmed and honored by this treatment  and  the
       attention he got in the streets.

       On his return, people asked him, "How was India?"

       He answered, "Terrific! It's a charming country, and a  rich
       country.   You get everything for nothing there. You go to a
       shop and point to a pile of sweets you like, and  they  tell
       you  to  take  all you want and eat it. Then the police come
       with drums and pipes, give you a shave, dye your  head  with
       hair-dye, and give you a nice donkey to ride through town to
       the accompaniment of lovely Indian music.

       And all for nothing!

       Lovely country, generous hosts, beautiful people!"


---raj