HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: jrk@information-systems.east-anglia.ac.uk (Richard Kennaway)
Newsgroups: alt.pagan
Subject: Re: Ceremony Suggestions?
Date: 12 Oct 92 11:24:13 GMT

christin@cae.wisc.edu (Christine Haas) writes:
>Save your son *a lot*
>of pain and possible complications later in his life -- get him
>circumcized now, while he still won't be able to remember the pain!

gil@Gilsys.DIALix.oz.au (Gil Hardwick) writes:
>Circumcision at puberty is extremely painful since all the penile
>nerve endings are fully developed by then.

Without anaesthetic?  I imagine it would be.

>I have met men who have
>remained through their lives very deeply shocked by the experience
>through not being properly cared for during their circumcision with
>the appropriate entry and exit rituals.

Two weeks ago today, I was circumsized at the age of 37.  For medical
reasons (paraphimosis).

The entry ritual was a general anaesthetic, the exit ritual was having
the doctor look at the swollen, oozing mass a few days later and pronounce
it par for the course.  :-)

No big deal.  Not much pain, though it was several days before I could
stand wearing clothes again.

Of course, if the subject *wants* to experience the pain, then by all means
dispense with the anaesthetic, but there's no reason it has to be painful.

--
Richard Kennaway     SYS, University of East Anglia, Norwich NR4 7TJ, U.K.
Internet:  jrk@sys.uea.ac.uk               uucp:  ...mcsun!ukc!uea-sys!jrk
From: altheimm@nextnet.csus.edu (Murray Altheim)
Newsgroups: alt.pagan
Subject: Re: Amazon warriors
Date: 15 Oct 92 19:33:14 GMT
Organization: California State University Sacramento

In article <10678@baird.cs.strath.ac.uk>
    imcc@cs.strath.ac.uk (Iain McCord) writes:
>: In article <2ADB9475.15006@news.service.uci.edu>,
      cortese@skid.ps.uci.edu (Janis Maria Cortese) writes:
>
>  The part about Celtic women is reported as recently as the Young Pretender;
>an english officer defended his part in killing some welsh camp followers by
>saying that he mistook them for highland women, who were known to use force
>of arms alongside their menfolk.
>: 
>: 	Hey,  check out the armies of Israel and most of the Commonwealth of
>: Independent States for well established modern examples of women in Warfare.
>
>  Israel no longer uses women as front line troops ( not alongside men anyway ).
>This is not due to any lack of nerve on the part of the women.  What happened
>was that when a man was injured, both sexes could carry on with their job.  
>If, however, a woman was injured the women got on with the job whilst the men
>paid attention to her.  Seems men are more squeamish than women.
>: 	
>: 
>: 						-Matthew.		

I hardly think male soldiers are any more squeamish than other men, and men
take the roles of doctors, paramedics (and soldiers) just fine. It's all in
the training. A more reasonable conclusion is that men have generally been
raised to not only hold open doors for women, but PROTECT them as well.
This is not a value judgement, just an observation. And it varies depending
on what part of what country one is talking about. My SO says men in the
southern US are much more "gallant" about protecting women from a hostile
situation than in the North, but are also more chauvinistic. Maybe this 
goes hand-in-hand.

When a woman falls on the battlefield, I would imagine the same "instinctual"
response occurs in men as when a child falls around women in the yard. Again,
this is not a value judgement, just an observation and not meant to be all-
inclusive. It goes back to our "basic training."
 
And in line with my last post, PEOPLE generally try to help each other out
when another is hurt. A battlefield probably just brings out reactions 
normally hidden in day-to-day life, due to the "unusual" circumstances of
seeing injured and dying people all around. I would hope that someone would
come to my aid regardless of whether they or I was man or woman.

Blessings,

Murray

-- 
Murray M. Altheim      "Ils ont l'orteil de Bouc, & d'un Chevreil l'oreille,
Instructional Consultant    La corne d'un Chamois, & la face vermeille
CSU, Sacramento          Comme un rouge Croissant: & dancent toute nuict
altheimm@csus.edu       Dedans un carrefour, ou pres d'une eau qui bruict."
Newsgroups: alt.pagan
From: fannin@news.cis.ohio-state.edu (elizabeth a fannin)
Subject: women warriors contd
Organization: The Ohio State University Department of Computer and Information Science
Date: Wed, 14 Oct 1992 19:43:17 GMT

ARRRRGGGGH.  damn keyboard.  ahem.

anyhow, when these shawnee women beat up on the soldiers, the soldiers *didnt'
say a word.* after all, who would want to admit he was beat up by a bunch of
women?  so, got rid of the (now terrified) soldiers, and no war.  

walking song says the only shawnee who was hurt was one of the men's war
group, who went along to watch.  they climbed trees.  they guy fell out of his
tree laughing.....

bear in mind, there are substantial cultural differences between eastern
"woodlands" tribes and plains tribes.  but if you want examples of women
warriors, look to native american stories and cultures!!
From: cortese@skid.ps.uci.edu (Janis Maria Cortese)
Subject: Re: Amazon warriors
Newsgroups: alt.pagan
Organization: University of California, Irvine
Date: 16 Oct 92 07:15:57 GMT

A response to three questions:

1) the best you can do out of a round of arrows is 45, which is then
doubled to give you your score out of 90.  Low 40's translates as high
80's out of a possible 90 points.

2) to get a look at hermaphroditic statues, look up Near Eastern myth.
As a jumping-off point for references, Barbara Walker's infelicitously
titled _The Woman's Encyclopedia of Myths and Secrets_ is good.

3) I forget the third question.  Ah, yes -- men having babies.  Think
about it from a population point of view.  If most men die, but most
women survive, the population survives.  If most women die, the
population dies.  Q. E. D.  You're not being chauvinist; it's true.
There are few instances of women fighting in organized large-scale
warfare precisely because it is not wise.  The brunt of the discussion
going on in the other newsgroup that Bekki mentioned, however, centered
around women being naturally caring and nonagressive and how men are
supposed to (biologically) be fierce to defend the women.  He badly
needed counterexamples as to how women can kick ass when they feel
motivated to do so.  Though it is unusual to find women fighting in
large scale wars, it is not unusual to find women who know how to fight.
I think this is the jist of the conversation.

Blessings,
Janis 

Newsgroups: alt.pagan
From: kditto@nyx.cs.du.edu (Kimborly Ditto)
Subject: More Poetry...
Organization: Nyx, Public Access Unix @ U. of Denver Math/CS dept.
Date: Fri, 16 Oct 92 02:16:42 GMT


OK, all - here's some more of my poetry for those of you who said they
wouldn't mind seeing it.  Comments are welcome, appreciated, and
encouraged - how else can I get better?? :)

(untitled)

I have seen the rites at Stonehenge,
  when the stones were freshly hewn;
I have wittnessed the flood of the Nile,
  and seen the rule of the Pharohs;
The Games at the Forum I have seen,
  gladiators, lions, Christians;
Troy, in all its granduer,
  and when its walls crumbled;
The court of Camelot,
  the Knights of the Roundtable;
War, famine, triumph,
  games, advance, regression;
I have seen them all,
  and shall see all;
Eternity is but an instant,
  and an instant can last an eternity;
Some might call me enemy,
  others friend;
I observe and exist,
  impartial, unjudging;
Alone.

Written approx 1987, Kimborly A. Ditto
Blessings, and Enjoy!
x
From: emarsh@hernes-sun.Eng.Sun.COM (Eric Marsh)
Newsgroups: alt.pagan
Subject: Re: help from you guys
Date: 7 Oct 92 20:22:53 GMT
Organization: Sun Microsystems, Mt. View, Ca.
NNTP-Posting-Host: hernes-sun

In article <2AD252EB.28154@news.service.uci.edu> cortese@skid.ps.uci.edu (Janis Maria Cortese) writes:
>You've talked in the past about what you've said to fundies when they
>pushed you to keep the situation from getting out of hand.  I think I
>need some help in that department.

>I'm TA-ing an anthropology class this quarter, and one of the subjects
>we touch on, of course, is evolution.  I thought ABSOLUTELY NOTHING
>about it until I was approached after class by one of the students who
>asked me what the anthropologists thought about the Bible.  The phrasing
>he used made me think he was sympathetic to creationism.

>I replied that the anthropologists considered that that theory was not
>well enough supported with fact.  He replied, "Yes, but some people
>believe it."

>I have to teach these kids in my discussion section on Friday, and I'm
>concerned that, offhand and reflexively, I will respond to a question
>like that by saying, "All kinds of mutually contradictory creation myths
>are supported by religion.  Why should one supersede the others?"

This is exactly what I would do. This is a class context, not a
religious context. The facts should be examined. Personal belief is
not what the class is about.

>In short, how do I challenge something like that without starting
>something?  Fundies are notorious for taking any difference of opinion
>as a personal affront, and I am tempted to say, "Well, if you believe in
>creationism, what the hell are you doing in an anthro class, damn it?"

I think that if you keep it academic the school will back you up. If
the fundys want to make a stink, let them. The will just end up looking
like idiots.... as ususal.

>Blessings,
>Janis  

Eric
Newsgroups: alt.pagan,alt.magick,alt.astrology,alt.religion.sabaean
From: ksm@abb-sc.abb-sc.com (Ashley)
Newsgroups: alt.pagan
Subject: Re: An amusing, but true story, And where is Nancy?
Date: 8 Oct 92 23:26:03 GMT
Organization: Kaos Laboratories



> 
>Hey! you're new! You probably haven't seen the joke somebody made a while
>back, that I've repeated: 
>   Q: how do you tell a *real* witch from a New Age witch?
>   A: you load all their crystals on them and throw them in the water. The
>	New Age witch will sink...
> 
>	mark

		AAarrgh! That's TERRIBLE. I like it! Reminds me of how I "came 
out of the broom closet" to a friend who had been suspecting for some time. 
We where in a Honda motorcyle shop, jumping on various bikes and drooling 
over what we couldn't afford. There was an old broom in the corner, so I 
grabbed it and shouted at her "Hey! Where's the throttle on this one?"

			I don't think the Honda dealer got it either.
			.........Guess you had to be there.

					- Ashley




	Also, Nancy, E-mail me your e-mail address! For somereason I can't 
send to you. have I got it right? I have a reply waiting for you.
From: brandy@fsinfo.cs.uni-sb.de (Mat Brandy)
Newsgroups: alt.pagan
Subject: Re: Samhain
Date: 16 Oct 92 09:58:56 GMT
Organization: Fachschaft Informatik, U of Saarland, FRG

Sitting on my hill and waiting for the "connections".

-mat-
From: genek@neptune.informix.com (Gene Kain)
Newsgroups: alt.pagan
Subject: Info needed
Summary: The Practice of Wicca
Keywords: Wicca
Date: 8 Oct 92 21:18:09 GMT
Organization: Informix Software, Inc.



      i'm reposting this because i didn't say everything


   i wanted to know. what i need is info on the practice of


   wicca and general info .


  sorry about the last one that was in all caps
From: christin@cae.wisc.edu (Christine Haas)
Newsgroups: alt.pagan
Subject: Re: Ceremony Suggestions?
Date: 9 Oct 92 23:35:41 GMT
Organization: U of Wisconsin-Madison College of Engineering

In article <BvpEx7.J0u@ddsw1.mcs.com> eshin@ddsw1.mcs.com (Eshin-Fun) writes:
>i>>post@hpfcso.FC.HP.COM (David Post) writes:
>: May I have some guidance, please?  I think I could use some.
>: 
>: The short story is a boy is about to be born and I have been asked to do a
>: ceremony for his circumcision.  Neither of his parents are Christian or have
>: spiritual purposes in mind for doing this.
>: 
>: It is to be done for hygenic, aesthetic and medical reasons.<<
>
>According to Pagan tradition, circumcision is considered barbaric and only
>in a few isolated instances does it seem if at all practiced.
>
>There are >NO< hygenic, or aesthetic or medical reasons to induce this
>custom that *was* practiced by the ancient Egyptians for certain religious
>purposes. 

I beg to differ on this point!  Circumcisions are done to AVOID 
infections - which are quite common since bacteria can gather
in the folds and cause very painful infections.  In face, a couple
of my friends who were not cirucumcized at birth, had to be
as adults due to infections -- and I can guarantee that it was NOT
an enjoyable experience as you can imagine.  Save your son *a lot*
of pain and possible complications later in his life -- get him
circumcized now, while he still won't be able to remember the pain!

Chris.
From: ba@mrcnext.cso.uiuc.edu (B.A. Davis-Howe)
Newsgroups: alt.pagan
Subject: Re: Myer-Briggs <was: Re: a nice experience last night>
Date: 11 Oct 92 13:39:03 GMT
Organization: University of Illinois at Urbana

dlg1@quads.uchicago.edu (deborah lynn gillaspie) writes:

>Br'an, 
>Sounds like a good book, I haven't seen it. Does she say anything about
>other combinations, such as if you're Intuitive AND Feeling? Reminds me
>  
She doesn't address combinations since the issue she is addressing is the
magic circle and the four Elements--her point is balancing all four. The comment
about the two Trads. she belongs to was a side note.


              Merry meet, merry part, merry meet again,
                               Br'anArthur

Queer, Peculiar, and Wyrd! :-)

******************************************************************************
Newage is hypoallergenic spirituality--
it's for people who are allergic to the word religion.
                                   --Jon Jay Obermark
Newsgroups: alt.pagan
From: pharvey@quack.sac.ca.us (Paul Harvey)
Subject: Re: The Serpent
Organization: The Duck Pond public unix: +1 408 249 9630, log in as 'guest'.
Date: Thu, 8 Oct 1992 05:26:26 GMT

In article <6oo9RB1w165w@eagles.uucp> 
thomas@eagles.uucp (Thomas Hoffman) writes:
>you know the scary part is that all legends are supposed to be based on some
>sort of fact. so what happened to all the big snakes or lizards?

Well, funny you should ask. If you have a little imagination, I think
their ancestors are still here. Of course any contact will have to be on
your own initiative, the serpents have learned to be relatively quiet
after they got slandered by the Christians in their interpretation of
Genesis. If you reread Genesis, it shouldn't take much to realize that
the serpent is aiding Eve in discovering something that she had all
along, the knowledge of good and bad. Certainly the serpent should be
praised for that action and Eve also for taking the initiative. I
thought Eve and the serpent handled the situation diplomatically, but
obviously the Christians did not. They failed to see expulsion from the
Garden as symbolic of birth, instead they saw it as bad so therefore Eve
must also have been bad and she must have been misled by the serpent who
must be the Christian Devil. Strange that the Christians always see so
much evil. In many ways, you are the gods and goddesses you conceive of
and it was the Christians who conceived of the Christian Devil and a
world dominated by natural evil. It's been said that Heaven is right
here, right now, only most don't see it for what is is. Hell is not
seeing it. Clearly most Christians see only Hell and treat the earth and
its beings as such.

>did all these manly god types kill them off?:)

That is for you to answer. Are they all dead for you?

>are there any female heroes that killed the serpent archetype?

I'm fairly certain there are but can't think of any off hand. Some one
else will have to cover that.

>what about the psychological analogy for the serpent as a phallus?

Ah, a Freudian twist. Try rereading Genesis now. And you wonder why Adam
was so quiet?
>                                    /\
>                                   / l\
>                                  /  l \
>                                     l
>                                  l  l  l
>                                  l  l  l
>                                * l\ l  l *
>                                  l \l  l
>                                  l  l\ l
>                                  l  l \l
>                                  l  l  l
>                                  l     l

Is that a serpent or are you just happy to see me?  ::B^}
From: twisted@bessel.umd.edu (Rick MacKinnon)
Newsgroups: alt.pagan
Subject: Fond farewells
Date: 9 Oct 92 16:33:49 GMT
Organization: University of Maryland

Well, now's the time to say goodbye to all our company.  My net access will
be removed as of 5:00 (EST) today. :(  I just wanna say that y'all are a
neat bunch of people, and I wish we could get together someday to do a
circle, do tarot readings for each other, or just sit and gab about
chocolate.

Just a few personalized farewells:

Janis:  Be true!  Keep this group from getting too complacent!  (Love the
ideas about seashells, BTW.  Makes me yearn for the BLUE waters of the
Pacific...)  [BTW, the e-mail address you have for me is still good.]

ailsa:  If you ever feel too isolated there, come down to Washington, D.C.
Plenty of us weirdos here!  (BTW, considering the choice of men, especially
in New England, lesbianism makes *perfect* sense to me!!)

B'ran:  (hope I got the apostrophe right, terrible memory.)  Please continue
giving a positive image of men!  I know that most guys deserve the bashing
they get, but remind everyone that there are a *few* worthy men out there!

Tammy, Jessica, other "newbies":  Continue your questioning!  Keep the old
timers on their toes!  A cookie to the first person that can stump Janis!


Well, so as not to be totally left out of some ancient threads:

Birthdate: August 26, 1969 (missed Woodstock by a month!  Damn!)  Makes me
a Virgo with some Leo traits (an introvert who loves the spotlight!  What a
combination!)  Place: San Francisco (Letterman General, to be specific.)
Don't know the time, don't know a damn thing about houses and planets.

Myers-Briggs: INFP.  The "F"eeling is pretty borderline, as "T"hinking is my
forte!


Well, keep the faith, people.  Get dutifully angry for me when you hear about
oppressed pagans.

Twisted

P.S.  By the way, Eshin-Fun.  You are an arrogant asshole.  I just thought
someone should inform you of this.
From: thomas@eagles.uucp (Thomas Hoffman)
Newsgroups: alt.pagan
Subject: Re: Youthful experiences
Date: 6 Oct 92 18:42:22 GMT
Organization: Eagles Reaches Church of Asatru - Elder Hof

> 
> 	Anyway, I have noticed that these experiences are common to many of us 
> and aside from a family traditionalist who was trained from birth, I have nev
> met a witch who was voted Ms. Congeniality / Mr. Personality in school. What 
> are your experiences?
> 
> 
> 			- Ashley
> 
well i was well liked in school and was even in the national who's who of
highschool students one year. my senior year i was battalion sgt.maj. for my
schools rotc group, first chair bass all four years in orchestra, i even had
several friends. so my studying to be a vitki has nothing to do with rebellion
or justifying not fitting in.
   once again(the veiws expressed in this posting are not in anyway to be 
misconstrued as being the doctrine or true faith of anybody other than myself.
i am not acting as a representative of eagles reaches, the asatru faith, the
ring of troth, or anybodies "true religion. this has been added for the benifit
of the wolfes of the field.)
i took out stock in an asbestos underwear plant so, flame away.

well met and wassail
Thomas of House Hoffman


       I'm so happy, i found my friends, they're in my head..... nirvana
                                                                _LITHIUM_
From: acarr@pell2l15.alleg.edu (Amelia Carr)
Newsgroups: alt.pagan
Subject: Re: Seashells
Date: 11 Oct 92 18:55:57 GMT
Organization: Allegheny College

For the lovers of chocolate, the city of Regensburg in Germany  also makes  
shell-shaped chocolates, known as "Regensburger Muscheln."  That city is  
an old Celtic site--Ratisponensa--on the Danube.  I've always thought the  
custom to be some sort of Goddess holdover.  One of the many features that  
attract me strongly to that city.
Amelia
Newsgroups: alt.pagan
From: pharvey@quack.sac.ca.us (Paul Harvey)
Subject: Sinead jah Goddess, was (just wondering)
Organization: The Duck Pond public unix: +1 408 249 9630, log in as 'guest'.
	<1992Oct6.181358.14326@lmt.mn.org>
Date: Thu, 8 Oct 1992 05:49:29 GMT

In article <1992Oct6.181358.14326@lmt.mn.org> 
ciaran@county.lmt.mn.org (Ciaran Benson) writes:
>  I have to admit a major crush on Sinead.  Her politics, her
>music, her (imnsho) major bod.  Yowsers!

I'll second that. She reeks of "I am alive". I've always found that to
be very attractive. Strickly Dionysian in an Apollonian world.

>  A lot of people who I work with really, really -- and I
>mean almost to the point of displaying an obsession, hate
>Sinead "and all she stands for"
>  "What's she stand for?" I ask.
>  "You know.  THEM."

Um, I know. She is an individual, she does not belong, she shakes up the
status quo. She is quite clearly a Secular Humanist, that most evil of
evil. And imagine, a fair skin European woman talking like Bob Marley. What
will happen to the youth next! It is all the fault of that demon rock
and roll, that back beat from Africa. Government says don't use jah
'erb, it make you rebel. Against what?
Newsgroups: alt.pagan
From: markbr%radian@natinst.com (markbr)
Subject: Re: The Dragon
Date: Mon, 12 Oct 1992 21:54:56 GMT
Organization: Radian Cormp.

In article <-1367161483snx@Gilsys.DIALix.oz.au> gil@Gilsys.DIALix.oz.au (Gil Hardwick) writes:
>
>In article <fTAjrAk@quack.sac.ca.us> pharvey@quack.sac.ca.us writes:
>
> > Couldn't agree more. War makes a very poor metaphor for life. As
> > Nietzsche put it, don't cast out the devil in you for fear of losing your
> > best part. Make love with your self, not war. Turn the energy around. Do
> > the right thing.
>
>Hm. Do I detect a trace of latent nobility here?
>
Sounds to me what THWhite had Arthur doing in Once & Future King: put
Might on the side of Right. On the other hand, Paul's attribution, in
context, makes the dragon a devil, which I disagree with. (Hmph!) I might
point out that in one way, we are *all* children of the Dragon: Sol resides
within the constellation of Draco.

>It was around the 12c that the Chinese Emperors found themselves
>actually descended from a dragon. Married into the family, so to
>speak.
>
>Is that what you mean by "Turning the energy around"? Incorporating
>the energy? This is an interesting thread.
>
>Gil

	mark (the Silverdragon)
From: boylan@sltg04.ljo.dec.com (Steve Boylan)
Newsgroups: alt.pagan
Subject: Re: Amazon warriors
Date: 14 Oct 92 19:23:52 GMT
Reply-To: boylan@ljohub.enet.dec.com (Steve Boylan)
Organization: Digital Equipment Corporation


About female warriors in Europe . . . I don't have the
information myself, but I think I know who to ask about
female warriors during the Middle Ages.  Those odd but fun
folks in the SCA originally held that, since knights and
warriors in the Middle Ages were all men, only men could
fight in their tournaments - until someone presented solid
historical evidence that there WERE female warriors.

I've sent a request to a couple of people who'd know the
references;  I'll post anything that comes back.

				- - Steve

				boylan@ljohub.enet.dec.com