HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: tmplee@TIS.COM (Theodore Lee)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.mac.misc
Subject: MicroAge Computers
Date: 15 Dec 92 19:56:53 GMT
Reply-To: tmplee@TIS.COM
Organization: Trusted Information Systems

Has anyone had any experience they care to relate with MicroAge
Computer dealers?  (I think they are at least semi-national; when I
called E-Machines to find a local dealer they asked if there was one
near me.)  I just received a quotation from them for a complete
IIvx+E-Machines system that was a good 10% less than the best deal I
had found before and no worse than mail order, not even counting
shipping.  (Whole system is 20% off list, on all components.)

Ted Lee <tmplee@tis.com>
Trusted Information Systems, Inc.
Minnetonka, MN
From: dmeyers@mal-s2.gatech.edu (Dave Meyers)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.mac.misc
Subject: Re: Communications software
Keywords: Modems
Date: 18 Dec 92 21:43:06 GMT
Organization: Georgia Tech Res. Inst./Modeling & Analysis Lab

In <1992Dec16.162313.16422@walter.cray.com> kuz@craig.cray.com (Brian Kuznia) writes:

>I recently acquired a Mac IIsi.  My previous system was a dumb terminal
>and modem for remote computing.  With the Mac at home, I am looking for
>a good communications package to talk to the outside world.  Besides
>connecting to work, I would like to beable to connect to bullentin boards.
>I would like to beable to up/down load files.  I have no experience in this
>area.  Any help would be greatly appreciated.

I recommend Zterm.  It is shareware, very inexpensive, available
by anon. ftp from sumex and other archives, very responsive (even
decently quick on a MacPlus!), and has zmodem for up/downloads.

Try it out.  Won't cost a thing to try.  If it doesn't suit your
needs, then perhaps you might want to look at commercial packages,
all of which cost at least 3 or 4 times as much.

--David
-- 
-- David S. Meyers (dmeyers@math.gatech.edu)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.mac.misc
From: greeny@top.cis.syr.edu (J. S. Greenfield)
Subject: Mystery cdev--Voice Record
Organization: Syracuse University, CIS Dept.
Date: Fri, 18 Dec 92 12:24:01 EST

Last night, I noticed on a Norton Utilities disk report that a control
panel "Voice Record" was loaded into my system from the System Folder (as
opposed to the CP folder).

I checked it out, and according to the "get info" window, it's an Articulate
Systems product.  I tried to open it, and I got a message saying that
it wouldn't work on this macintosh.  (Not surprising, since I don't have
any Articulate Systems product.)

But what's so confusing is that I have no idea how this go onto my machine!

The only package I have that supports voice stuff is MS Word 5.1 (voice
annotations), and perhaps HyperCard.

Anyway, does anybody know if MS Word is responsible for installing this
item?

I also recently installed Norton Utils, and Lotus 1-2-3, but I can't imagine
that it was either of them...


Thanks.


-- 
J. S. Greenfield                                         greeny@top.cis.syr.edu
(I like to put 'greeny' here, 
but my d*mn system wants a 
*real* name!)                        "What's the difference between an orange?"
Newsgroups: comp.sys.mac.misc
From: har1@cec2.wustl.edu (Hasnol Abdul Rahman)
Subject: Re: StartUpScreen under System 7
Organization: Washington University, St. Louis MO
Date: Wed, 16 Dec 1992 16:47:56 GMT

In article <g89s9112.11.724429777@giraffe.ru.ac.za> g89s9112@giraffe.ru.ac.za (MR D STURZEBECHER) writes:
>Hi there,
>  can someone tell me, wich fileformat my own StartUpScreen under System 7
>must be. I tried the MacDraw format but I only got some sort of barcode 
>displayed on the screen. 
>Thanks for answers.
>Dirk.

I've used SuperPaint to display the 1701D and Voyager probe as the startup
screen


From: bayes@hplvec.LVLD.HP.COM (Scott Bayes)
Date: Sat, 19 Dec 1992 00:00:47 GMT
Subject: Re: History was made today...
Organization: Hewlett-Packard Co., Loveland, CO
Newsgroups: comp.sys.mac.misc

> From the 1990 Almanac (I wish I had a later one)
> Sales in Millions:
> IBM  - 59,681
> Apple - 4,071
> 
> As you can see by the sales, Apple has very little to do with the
> success of IBM.
> 

Unless $2G of Apple sales cannibalized $20G of IBM sales (warning, this
is only an example, repeat, an example) to accomplish the same amount of
real work (read:  satisfy same amount of market needs)

After all, one model for the disappearance of big expensive dinosaurs is
that cheap little mammals caused them to starve by eating their lunches.

ScottB
Newsgroups: comp.sys.mac.misc
From: jwa@vipunen.hut.fi (Jyrki J Wahlstedt)
Subject: Apple & Novell???
Organization: Helsinki University of Technology, Finland
Distribution: comp
Date: 11 Dec 92 22:33:04

  Yesterday I read in a somewhat esteemed magazine that there are RUMOURS
  about Apple and Novell getting together? Has anyone else heard anything
  like? It would be logical because of Microsoft's NT (when they get it
  ready :-) and regarding the rumours that Apple is planning a server
  machine. Well, who knows...

  PS. This is not actually in the area, but in another magazine I read a
  column of a PC fellow, who wrote about Bill Gates. He said that Bill
  is very determined and has read several biographies of Napoleon. I just
  wondered what will be Gates' Russia and Waterloo!?!
--
!
!	Jyrki Wahlstedt
!		Jyrki.Wahlstedt@hut.fi
!
!  Our life is no dream, but it should and will perhaps become one.
!
From: miracle@sctc.com (Barry Miracle)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.mac.misc
Subject: Re: MAC emulators on unix
Date: 16 Dec 92 23:02:41 GMT
Organization: SCTC

bbal@nic.cerf.net (Brian Balthazor) writes:

>In article <1992Dec16.162204.13847@mcs.kent.edu> sscott@mcs.kent.edu (Stephen Scott) writes:
>>Has anyone heard anything about LIKEN - this claims to be a macintosh
>>emulation environment for unix systems.  I found it in a SUN World ad
>>by a company called Andataco.  However, the "fine print" at the bottom
>>of the page says - "Liken is a trademark of Xcelerated Systems Inc." 
>>So I assume that Andataco is the marketing firm.
>>
>>- Has anyone used this and have any comments?
>>
>>- Even at the educational price I may be better off buying another Mac
>>  if performance & integration is not outstanding.
>>
>>- Are there any other similar products on the market?

>I have used LIKEN from Xcelerated Systems of San Diego, California. The
>product requires a Sparc2 minimally to run on (preferably a 10) if
>you want to be at all productive. 

>I personally have run several application on Liken and found 
>discrepancies from native Mac operation. Quicen produced strange 
>results, FrameMaker did not run on the first version but will now
>run on the current release, however, it's bombed out several times 
>when working with small documents. Finale (musical application) will not
>run at all, the list goes on. 

>On the better side, many people have used Liken to their satisfaction
>at several companies I'v contracted for. Let's face it, the concept is
>sound - Mac software is much less expensive than it's Sun counterpart.
>But you do lose some performance. 

>Determine what you're trying to accomplish. You can buy Mac powerbook
>100's at Price Club for $700. A liken license is similarly priced for
>single user. 

>Also, liken does not support color, nor does it currently run System 7.0


I found Liken limited and buggy.  I get errors that cause Liken to
"RESTART" frequently.  It has no networking support, so that although
you can run it on your sparc, you can not network it to use that node
as a file server for instance.

I found it slow, over priced and buggy.

Barry Miracle
miracle@sctc.com
Newsgroups: comp.sys.mac.misc,gnu.misc.discuss
From: jimlynch@netcom.com (Jim Lynch)
Subject: Re: Apple/Novell merger discussed
Organization: Netcom Online Communications Services (408-241-9760 login: guest)
Date: Wed, 16 Dec 1992 21:50:33 GMT

In article <suLVVB13w165w@mantis.co.uk> mathew <mathew@mantis.co.uk> writes:
>bskendig@netcom.com (Brian Kendig) writes:
>> San Jose Mercury News via First!: Executives of Apple Computer Inc.
>> and Novell Inc. have engaged in top-level discussions in recent weeks
>> about the possibility of rewriting the rules of the computing world by
>> merging their two companies into an $8 billion hardware-software
>> giant.
>
>That would be interesting.  We'd get to see whether the FSF would stick to
>their professed principles and boycott DOS machines.
>
>
>mathew
>

or any other system using Novell... Let's see: what's on the boycott list
currently? Apple (ROAR! I WANT MAC GNU!!), lotus (so what?) and xerox (The
__ONLY__ company who deserves the copyright since they worked on it for so
long; unless they sold the rights to Apple, then Apple ripped Xerox off,
period (legal or not)).

I wonder what would happen if the boycott were to extend to all UNIX-alikes...

On another subject,

friedman@gnu.ai.mit.edu (Noah Friedman) said recently:
>>>>>
The GNU Manifesto expresses Richard Stallman's feelings as of 1985.  He
still personally prefers that all software be free one way or another.  The
FSF is a different story, though.  It frowns on proprietary software, but
its mission is to promote free software, not to act directly against
proprietary software.
<<<<<


RMS, if this is true, who would work on software, who would fund the work on
software (The US govt??)? This would certainly change the face of things quite
a bit. What would this new face look like?

I have a suggestion: get the copyright office to stop issuing copyrights on
short english phrases, such as "You got the right one baby! Uh Hunh!" The
copyright office (or is it trademark?) is chipping away at our language (you
know, the one we all speak?)... Or short musical phrases such as the one for
NBC (it's not even 8 notes, theminimum copyrightable melody!) Expressions
of music and human language are software too.

Back to _computer_ software... RMS, to hope for _all_ software to be free
is unrealistic, however people can do what they want with _their_ software.

Look-and-feel as it applies to operating systems, however, is a different
story IMO.

Keep doing what you're doing. Your contribution represents incredible value.
Like Rudolph the Red-nosed Reindeer, you'll go down in history.
From: howie@intermec.com (Howard Kaplan x1696)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.mac.misc
Subject: Re: Autodoubler
Date: 14 Dec 92 20:59:28 GMT
Reply-To: howie@intermec.com (Howard Kaplan x1696)
Organization: Intermec Corporation, Everett WA

I figured I would post this here since I would have the attention of the
AutoDoubler gurus.

First off I am not knocking the product. I have been a very satisfied user of
AD/DD since the product first came out until I upgraded to 2.0 recently.
Salienet (now 5th Generation) has always been responsive to problems.

I have them stumped though on an AD 2.0 problem with my Mac SE. I am running
6.0.7 without MultiFinder.  Basically what happens is AD will never quit
scanning! If I set the delay to 3 minutes it will start the scan on schedule
and display the scanning icon as it should. It takes roughly 10 minutes to
scan my 100 meg external Quantum for potential files to scan. When complete
it immediately starts scanning again with no scanning icon visible. Once this
starts it never stops until I hit a key or move the mouse. Checking the AD
control panel usually shows a future scheduled scan as one would expect, but
it never really gets to this since it never stops scanning.  

This problem is driving me and 5th generation nuts. I have tried everthing
they suggested so far inlcuding re-installation, runnning a heap fixer
program (Bootman) and killing all inits excpet AD/DD.  No luck yet! 

I did a control on my machine at work (si running 7.1) and it runs perfectly.
After a couple of passes at compressing AD settles down to just scheduled
scans or brief scans after no activity as one would expect.

Anyone have any ideas?

The last thing 5th Generation said was they wanted to know what software my
HD was formatted with. How could this possibly matter?


Howard Kaplan

Newsgroups: comp.sys.mac.misc
From: Caughill <Caughill@mixcom.mixcom.com>
Subject: Please help with ClicKey extension
Organization: Milwaukee Internet Xchange BBS, Milwaukee, WI U.S.A.
Distribution: usa
Date: Mon, 14 Dec 1992 17:01:53 GMT

I'm having problems designating the "hot" rectangles in ClicKey. If anyone has
any experience with this extension, I could really use some advice. Please,
e-mail me at Caughill@mixcom.mixcom.com. Thanks.

-- 
Caughill@mixcom.com
Xref: sparky comp.sys.mac.misc:20808 comp.sys.apple2:25707
From: zinkin@acsu.buffalo.edu (David R Zinkin)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.mac.misc,comp.sys.apple2
Subject: Is there a BinSCII decoder for the Mac?
Date: 18 Dec 92 01:12:10 GMT
Followup-To: comp.sys.mac.misc,comp.sys.apple2
Organization: UB

Does anyone know of a Mac program that can decode files encoded in
BinSCII on the Apple II?  (No, I won't buy an LC or LC II with a
IIe card... :-)

Thanks!
 -- Dave
Newsgroups: comp.sys.mac.misc
From: ric-mommer@uiowa.edu
Subject: ### 4M SIMMs For Sale
Reply-To: ric-mommer@uiowa.edu
Organization: University of Iowa, Iowa City, IA, USA
Date: Thu, 17 Dec 1992 04:47:01 GMT

FOR SALE

Four 4M SIMMs for Macintosh.  80ns.  $120 each + shipping.

Reply to: ric-mommer@uiowa.edu
From: oberland@vax.sonoma.edu
Newsgroups: comp.sys.mac.misc
Subject: Dream system thread
Date: 14 Dec 92 09:38:55 GMT
Organization: Sonoma State University

My dream system:
(besides the fastest 040 out there)

dedicated graphics chips and built-in 32-bit color for 21inch screens
(you asked-ie: accelerated video with 8 meg ON the MB)
eraseable-optical drive
20 meg floptical that can read 1.4 and 2.8 formats
MIDI
48K sampling
Stereo input with variable impedence switching(or selectable)
8 PDS slots as well as bieng able to use NU-bus cards
FPU for CPU and for the Graphics chips
can use IBM monitors as well as 64-bit RAM.
cache card for scsi and cpu
FASSSSTER scsi
FREE KBD(sheesh-guys! give us the Kbd for free!)
ability to upgrade cpu(easily removeable)-possibly on a 32 or 64-bit dedicated
card.  Replace the card(2-3 inches square at most) to do an upgrade.
ALL other chips like video and ROMS are socketed.  Zip-socketing?

no limit on ram(well, give us 16 slots, capable of up to 256 meg chips)
built-in UPS.
etc...

The Keyboard, Midi, SHD/floptical drive, stereo in, dat sampling, IBM monitor
compatibility, and easy upgrade path are easily do-able right now.

Now when 64 and 128 bit comes out... :)

Joe
From: klliou@stein.u.washington.edu (Kan-Lee Liou)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.mac.misc
Subject: Read DOS files
Date: 12 Dec 92 19:34:57 GMT
Article-I.D.: u.1992Dec12.193457.2006
Organization: University of Washington

I am not familiar with Mac machines, but I have to move some data files from
my IBM PC to a Mac.
Can a Mac read disks in DOS format?  The data files are in ASCII.
Please send me email.  Thank you.

Kan-Lee, klliou@u.washington.edu
Newsgroups: comp.sys.mac.misc
From: parkyn@fraser.sfu.ca (Dale Parkyn)
Subject: Re: MacWorld/MacUser issue with Word 5 tips?
Organization: Simon Fraser University, Burnaby, B.C., Canada
Date: Thu, 17 Dec 1992 16:28:48 GMT

Regarding article on Word 5 tips.
 Can't provide the issue but...
 Some of the nifty double click short cuts are ruler related.
 You can double click tabs -> tab dialog
                body of ruler -> paragraph format dialog.
From: lipa@camis.Stanford.EDU (Bill Lipa)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.mac.misc
Subject: Re: SoftAT demo Scandal?!?!?
Date: 16 Dec 1992 19:25:06 GMT
Organization: Stanford University School of Medicine
NNTP-Posting-Host: camis.stanford.edu


I'm not sure I know what's going on -- I don't recall having a SoftAT demo,
removing it, or anyone complaining. Your message is the first I've seen
suggesting that we had the original on-line.

Bill Lipa
info-mac-request@sumex-aim.stanford.edu
Xref: sparky comp.sys.mac.misc:20716 gnu.misc.discuss:4005
From: harpe@netnews.louisville.edu (Mike Harpe)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.mac.misc,gnu.misc.discuss
Subject: Re: Apple/Novell merger discussed
Date: 16 Dec 92 18:21:30 GMT
Organization: University of Louisville

I wonder how this will hold up if Novell loses the lawsuit?

Mike
Newsgroups: comp.sys.mac.misc
From: neath@brazil.psych.purdue.edu (Ian Neath)
Subject: Re: OK to pass diskette through airport X-ray?
Summary: Yes, if you don't mind the risk
Organization: Purdue University
Date: Thu, 17 Dec 1992 12:31:37 GMT

In <1992Dec17.055403.2955@CSD-NewsHost.Stanford.EDU>, yu@Xenon.Stanford.EDU
 (Chen-Kuang Yu) writes:

>        Is it alright to pass diskettes through airport X-ray?  Is it
> ok if I include them in the luggage?  Are they as sensitive as the
> harddisk to strong magnetization?

A year or two ago MacUser did a pretty good test.  One of the people
who writes the hints page ran some disks through the x-ray machines
1, 2, 3, 4, or 5 times.  He got no problems with the once or twice
disks but quite a few read errors with the 4 and 5 times disk.

Rule of thumb:  if you don't mind losing your data, send it through.
If your data is valuable, don't send it through.  In the US, you can
request (and obtain) a non-xray search.

--
      Ian Neath        | There are four kinds of people in this world:
neath@psych.purdue.edu | cretins, fools, morons and lunatics - U. Eco
From: rwb@alexander.VI.RI.CMU.EDU (Robert Berger)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.mac.misc
Subject: MacCenter vs MacConnection
Date: 15 Dec 92 03:08:19 GMT
Article-I.D.: cs.BzA621.29s.2
Organization: School of Computer Science, Carnegie Mellon


A few weeks ago I ordered a NEC 4FG and a Radius 24XP from MacCenter in
Texas. I place the order only after they assured me they had both
items in stock, and would ship right away.

After three weeks I called to cancel the order. They never explained
why they had lied about having the items in stock, but instead tried
to keep my order by claiming that both items were in short supply
all over the country.

After cancelling, I called MacConnection and had both items the
very next day. Guess which one of these companies will get my
business in the future...
Newsgroups: comp.sys.mac.misc,misc.forsale.computers.mac,misc.forsale.computers,comp.sys.mac.hardware
From: Terri Buchman <buchman@osf.org>
Subject: Re: Bad Experience with MacCenter
X-Xxmessage-Id: <A7533A25D1010817@alimac13.osf.org>
X-Xxdate: Tue, 15 Dec 92 07:30:45 GMT
Organization: Open Software Foundation
X-Useragent: Nuntius v1.1.1d15
Date: Tue, 15 Dec 1992 12:29:44 GMT

In article <BzA05u.3tL@acsu.buffalo.edu> Alexander W. Lynn,
lynn@acsu.buffalo.edu writes:
Good Luck!

I am still trying to get some action on an order that I placed
in July.  I cancelled
the order, the charge for it showed up on my credit card bill
and I have been 
in weekly contact with MacCenter ever since.

Can I haul these folks into small claims court?

TerriB.
Newsgroups: comp.sys.mac.misc
From: pw4963@sarah.albany.edu (Peter G. White)
Subject: Pb100 question
Organization: State University of New York at Albany
Date: Sat, 19 Dec 92 04:11:58 GMT

On my pb100 there is a little arrow pointing upwards next to the balloon
help menu on the menu bar.  What is this?

-Peter

_______________________________________________________________________________
Peter White                                Internet:pw4963@uacsc1.albany.edu
State Univ. of New York at Albany          Bitnet:pw4963@albnyvms
_______________________________________________________________________________


Newsgroups: comp.sys.mac.misc
From: aggie@wealthy.ocean.fsu.edu (I R A Aggie)
Subject: Re: Bad Experience with MacCenter
Followup-To: comp.sys.mac.misc,misc.forsale.computers.mac,misc.forsale.computers,comp.sys.mac.hardware
Organization: An Ol Ag surrounded by a bunch of unfriendly Seminoles
Date: Tue, 15 Dec 92 14:38:58 GMT

In article <1992Dec15.122944.23310@osf.org>, Terri Buchman
<buchman@osf.org> wrote:
> 
> In article <BzA05u.3tL@acsu.buffalo.edu> Alexander W. Lynn,
> lynn@acsu.buffalo.edu writes:
> Good Luck!
> 
> I am still trying to get some action on an order that I placed
> in July.  I cancelled
> the order, the charge for it showed up on my credit card bill
> and I have been 
> in weekly contact with MacCenter ever since.
> 
> Can I haul these folks into small claims court?

Yeah, you can, but you really should have *disputed* your bill to
your credit card company! Did you pay the bill? Don't *ever* pay
a disputed charge! The ccard company has mechanisms to help you
with such problems.

James
Newsgroups: comp.sys.mac.misc
From: Ravi Konchigeri <mongoose@leland.stanford.edu>
Subject: Re: Apple Quality is sh_t !
X-Xxmessage-Id: <A754C279EB0100ED@kimball-pc-316.stanford.edu>
X-Xxdate: Wed, 16 Dec 92 11:24:41 GMT
Organization: Stanford University
X-Useragent: Nuntius v1.1.1d12
Date: Wed, 16 Dec 92 19:21:49 GMT

In article <BzC5uE.IpB@world.std.com> jim bailey, jbailey@world.std.com writes:
>How about using 3 monitors with hellcats over the pacific.  Now that is
>what I call serious overkill, but fun. :-).

"Now that is really bad for the eyes!" - Zaphod Beeblebrox



Ravi Konchigeri.
mongoose@leland.stanford.edu
Newsgroups: comp.sys.mac.misc
From: Sean McMains <mcmains@unt.edu>
Subject: Re: Anyone hear of Apple's OCE???
X-Xxmessage-Id: <A7564CD30B010205@isbdeskmac.acs.unt.edu>
X-Xxdate: Thu, 17 Dec 92 07: 27:15 GMT
Organization: University of North Texas
X-Useragent: Nuntius v1.1.1d12
Date: Thu, 17 Dec 1992 15:26:04 GMT

In article <1992Dec16.193532.7959@linus.mitre.org> Andrew D. Zenowich,
adz@mitre.org writes:
>Has anyone ever hear of something Apple is calling an Open Collaborative
>Environment (OCE). It is supposed to have something to do with providing
>more hooks for network security over AppleTalk among other things. Things
>like better authentication, Kerberose... etc. Has anyone else heard of
>this???

It provides a lot of things -- basically designed to incorporate
system-level E-Mail communication for the Mac, along with the beefed up
security necessary to use something like that safely. It is, according to
MacWeek, due for release in the second or third quarter of 1993.
==========================================================================
Sean McMains <mcmains@unt.edu>        |          University of North Texas
==========================================================================
"An open mind, in questions that are  not ultimate, is useful. But an open
mind about  the ultimate  foundations either  of Theoretical  or Practical
Reason is idiocy." - C.S. Lewis
==========================================================================
Newsgroups: comp.sys.mac.misc
From: majnun@parrot.in-berlin.de (Albrecht Hofheinz)
Subject: Savy? (INIT showing 'System-7-savyness'): meaning of the symbols?
Summary: What's the meaning of the various symbols of the INIT, "Savy?"
Keywords: Savy, System 7
Organization: Parrot Public BBS
Date: Mon, 14 Dec 1992 22:12:55 GMT

TidBits (was it TidBits?) recommended a tiny little extension showing
various icons in the "Get Info" box, indicating whether a particular
application is System-7-savy or not.
Question: What do the various letters mean that appear in different
combinations around the central circle? (I understand the difference
between 24 and 32....)

BTW: Here's my wish to the author of Savy: make it compatible with
non-English-speaking systems! (this should not be a problem, I think).

Albrecht Hofheinz
majnun@parrot.in-berlin.de
From: skippy@jhunix.hcf.jhu.edu (Ian Chesterton)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.mac.misc
Subject: Word 4.0 errors (was Word 4.0b14 errors)
Date: 19 Dec 92 20:33:42 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: Benedict

Hi All,

   A correction to my first posting... 

   Due to a wrongly-named application icon, I erred in saying that we were 
   running Word v 4.0b14 when we experienced the dreaded asterisks-in-your-
   document.  We really, truly, are running 4.0 (yes ... it's old).  
   Hopefully we can fully switch the lab over to Word 5.0 in the near future.  
   I hope that will resolve this situation.

--- Ian ---
-- 
"Sir ... I protest!  I am not a merry man!"
					   - Worf, Q-Pid
Newsgroups: comp.sys.mac.misc