From: hayim@locus.com (Hayim Hendeles)
Subject: Re: Torah In A Torah Context (was Re: more of ...can of worms....)
Organization: Locus Computing Corporation, Los Angeles, California
Date: Wed, 02 Sep 1992 17:27:18 GMT

In article <BtxGs5.CrI@mentor.cc.purdue.edu> hrubin@mentor.cc.purdue.edu (Rubin Herman) writes:
>
>Nevertheless, the last two of the rivers described seem to have had
>no problem of identification.  The whole set presumably made sense
>to those reading the Torah, or there would have been no point whatever
>in including it; the names and descriptions of the rivers serve no
>moral purpose whatever. 
>	...
>-- 
>Herman Rubin, Dept. of Statistics, Purdue Univ., West Lafayette IN47907-1399

IMHO, you have missed the point entirely here. You are assuming the
Torah is a History/Science book, and as such feel it essential
to pinpoint these locations. However, no believer has ever claimed
the Torah to be a History book. 

Consider the following: Abraham lived 175 years. He clearly had
a major impact on history, yet the Torah tells us virtually nothing
about his life - except for perhaps a few weeks total. The first
we hear about Abraham, he is already 70/75 years old, and 
he already has a close, personal relationship with G-d. What happened
to him during those first 70 years, and why did G-d single him out
over the rest of the generation? The Torah alludes to the impact
he had on his community ("hanefesh asher asu bcharan" - Genesis 12:5),
yet tells us absolutely nothing about this.

(Of course, the Talmudic literature fills in some of this void,
but that's irrelevant to my argument.)

If this were a History book, you must admit, it's missing an awful lot.

Furthermore, as is well known, the Torah is not necessarily written
in chronological order. Again, for a history book, this is quite strange.

Therefore, I submit to you, that when the Torah identifies these
4 rivers, or the Garden of Eden, its purpose is NOT so you should
be able to go there, and put up a big billboard saying "Adam was here".
Rather, there is something significant about this place, which is
necessarily for a complete and proper understanding of the Torah.

For historical purposes, it may not have made a difference if these
rivers were on the Moon, but from the Torah's perspective, it's
important to note these "seemingly trivial" facts for a PROPER
understanding of the story.  Some of the commentaries deal extensively
with these so-called "trivial" facts that some mistakenly believe serve
no moral purpose.

To borrow an example from Rabbi Shlomo Zalman Volozhin - some of
these so-called trivial details are like stars. When we look in
the sky, all it is is a tiny point of light. However, in reality,
if you could approach the star, you would find it to be immense.
And so it is with these "trivia", if you can approach it closely,
you will also find it to be immense.

I have heard taped lectures from Rabbi Uziel Millefsky, from Ohr
Sameyach in Toronto, who often deals with these "seemingly trivial"
details. His lectures are absolutely profound and mind boggling,
and when you walk away from one of them, you will have a completely
different perspective and understanding of the Torah. His tapes
are available from Ohr Sameyach ( ... standard disclaimer ... I am
not affiliated ... )

Hayim Hendeles
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish