HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
Via:         UK.AC.CAM.PHX; 26 DEC 92 17:48:40 GMT
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.cdromlan
Date:         Sat, 26 Dec 1992 17:48:57 GMT
              <CDROMLAN@IDBSU.BITNET>
From:         A Grant <AG129@PHOENIX.CAMBRIDGE.AC.UK>
Subject:      Re: OED/Licensing

> This is silly.  Does anybody really buy the suggestion that the mere presence
> of a systems programmer will force an administration to the moral high road?
> I thought not.  As a techie librarian, I have to second Jennifer's comments
> about software pricing and question the absurd suggestion that academics are
> less sensitive to licensing terms than anyone else.

I'm not talking about 'techie librarians', who are career professionals,
but about Prof. X who buys software from his/her local computer store and
'lends' it to Prof. Y and everyone else in their research group.  Setting
up a simple network is getting easier all the time, to the point where it
can be done by non-techies (see PC Mag Dec. 92 for a review of some simple
LANs). This is especially true for Apple Macs, where CD-ROMs can be
networked using Appletalk file sharing, but it's pretty simple for
peer-to-peer PC LAN solutions as well.

I'd guess that unlike Medline or Books in Print or whatever, many copies of
the OED (the disc which started this discussion), as well as other
humanities texts, are bought by individuals rather than libraries. Of
course, there would be less temptation to break the law if the prices of
some CDs weren't so high, but this is a temporary effect. Sooner or later
somebody else will produce an English Dictionary that is just as good as
the OED, and there will be genuine competition. Until then, if you don't
need discs, why buy them?

The attitude that any conflicting opinion that happens to come from outside
the US must be due to national abnormalities is very unconvincing. I suspect
most people on this list know very little about what goes on in the desktop
PCs of their university labs, rather than the libraries or computer
departments.
--
Alasdair Grant                                   A.Grant@ucs.cam.ac.uk
MVS Systems Group / Small Systems Integration Group     +44 223 334447
University Computing Service, Pembroke St., Cambridge CB2 3QG, England
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Newsgroups: bit.listserv.cdromlan
Date:         Tue, 22 Dec 1992 14:02:59 -0600
              <CDROMLAN@IDBSU.BITNET>
From:         SLAW@LIB.DRAKE.EDU
Subject:      MAC CD-LAN

I have been following the Mac vs. HAL discussion and the rest of this list
for some time, but I still have not seen an answer to my specific question:

1.  Is there anyone out there who is now, or knows of someone who is now,
running a MAC-based CD-LAN that operates on AppleShare, using a Quadra or
similar MAC for a "fileserver", and powers 8 or more Mac workstations?  If
so, could you please contact me at the Internet address below.  Any help
along these lines will be massively appreciated.

2.  A different, but related question:  Ruth Glynn reported that the OED2
CD could be read successfully by a Mac CD drive.  For anyone who has a Mac
CD drive: has anyone had any success accessing and running other IBM-based
CDs from a Mac drive?

Thanks again for any help along these lines.  Please respond to me
directly, and I will summarize if there is interest.

Happy Holidays!

*@*$*@*$*@*$*@*$**@*$*@*$*@*$*@*$**@*$*@*$*@*$*@*$**@*$*@*$*@*$*@*$**@*$*@*$*@
*  Bruce Gilbert                               Internet: BRUCE@LIB.DRAKE.EDU *
*  Systems Librarian                              Drake University Libraries *
*@*$*@*$*@*$*@*$**@*$*@*$*@*$*@*$**@*$*@*$*@*$*@*$**@*$*@*$*@*$*@*$**@*$*@*$*@
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Newsgroups: bit.listserv.cdromlan
Date:         Mon, 28 Dec 1992 09:08:00 EST
              <CDROMLAN@IDBSU.BITNET>
From:         "Amy Wang @ Bellcore - Library Network, Piscataway,
              NJ" <january@DONNER.CC.BELLCORE.COM>
Subject:      re: CD-ROM Concepts Guide

Apologies, all--just realized I sent my reply to the group rather than
to Bill Freeman.

Amy Wang
Bellcore, 6 Corporate Place, Piscataway, NJ 08854
Internet: january@donner.cc.bellcore.com
Fax: 908-336-2231      Voice: 908-699-3360
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Date:         Thu, 24 Dec 1992 15:39:00 EST
              <CDROMLAN@IDBSU.BITNET>
From:         "D.E. 'Dave' Bloomberg" <BLOOMBER@FAUVAX.BITNET>
Subject: Re: weather Report (was networking)

Hi,

Brrrrrrrr......gives ya' chills just reading posts like that from
               Ed....   South Florida reporting in for a brisk 75 F
               kinda cloudy day.  No whiteout happening here.


               Happy Holidyas to all!!

               Dave Bloomberg
               BLOOMBER@FAUVAX
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Newsgroups: bit.listserv.cdromlan
Date:         Mon, 21 Dec 1992 14:30:15 CST
              <CDROMLAN@IDBSU.BITNET>
From:         Lezlie Shell <lshell@LOBBY.TI.COM>
Subject:      Job Posting -- Systems Administrator

   Texas Instruments Incorporated has a SYSTEM ADMINISTRATOR position
available immediately.  Applications received by Jan. 8 will receive
first priority.

   The Texas Instruments Information Network consists of 9 libraries and
the Corporate Technical Information Center (CTIC).  CTIC encompasses
technical processes for the libraries, as well as other corporate-wide
information services.  The Information Network has a union catalog of
23,000 titles and a union list of 1,800 serial titles.  TI is about to
purchase a new corporate-wide integrated online library system. The Systems
Administrator will play a key role in implementing the IOLS and will provide
ongoing support for librarians and CTIC staff.

0   DUTIES AND RESPONSIBILITIES:

 -- Plan and execute data conversion project.

 -- Install and maintain IOLS software.

 -- Work with TI Library and CTIC staff to write documentation, establish
    policies, and generate reports and metrics.

 -- Serve as primary interface with IOLS vendor and act as liaison from
    TI to vendors, other information units within TI, and TI Systems staff.

 -- Provide microcomputer, telecommunications and CD-ROM support services
    for the technical libraries and CTIC staff.

 -- Train librarians; consult on program for training endusers.

 -- Plan for new technologies.


 0  MINIMUM REQUIREMENTS:  MS in Library or Information Science with
    3 years experience as a Systems Librarian.

 0  REQUIRED PROFICIENCIES: Experience with MARC record format,
    IOLS and CD/ROM applications.  Ability to coordinate automation
    activities and provide leadership.  Ability to communicate technical
    information to a broad range of audiences. Excellent interpersonal
    skills including teamwork, collaboration, compromise, and negotiation.
    Basic knowledge of client/server applications, telecommunications
    and networking technologies.  MS-DOS, OCLC.

 0  DESIRABLE:  OS/2, SQL, Excel, Windows, Word, Unix.

Texas Instruments Incorporated is an Equal Opportunity employer.

 0  Send resumes to:
    ITG Staffing Administrator
    Texas Instruments Incorporated
    P.O. Box 869305,  MS8431
    Plano, TX  75086

0   Questions: Call Linda Kyprios at (214) 575-3062
               lkyprios@lobby.ti.com
               (include your phone number)
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Newsgroups: bit.listserv.cdromlan
Date:         Tue, 22 Dec 1992 09:44:35 EDT
Reply-To:     chuck@vims.edu
              <CDROMLAN@IDBSU.BITNET>
From:         "Charles A. McFadden" <chuck@BACK.VIMS.EDU>
Subject:      Re: OED/Licensing

The analogy of CDs to books is a good one because it illustrates the
inequities of the system.  If I buy a hard copy of a periodical index, I
own it, and do not have to give it back if I end the subscription.  In at
least some very important cases, if I end a subscription to a periodical
index on CD, I have to give back the CD or destroy it.  You do not own
bibliography any more; you rent it.  In the case of a hard copy index, if I
wished, I could have clipped out the individual entries and pasted them to
3 by 5 cards for interfiling in the card catalog.  In the case of CDs, you
are carefully walled out of access to the records.  Even though a client
may download any number of records and upload them into his/her
professional system, I the librarian may not.  If you try to buy the
records, typically on tape, a $1500 CD suddenly becomes $28,000 for
retrospective records on tape and $9,000 for the annual update on tape.  If
I end the subscription, I must delete the records from my system.  The very
nature of computing makes the copying and integration of records far easier
than it has ever been.  But the system that creates and markets
bibliographic information blocks this next step in the natural evolution of
computing in libraries.  If you are poor but have clever staff and can
devise clever ways to distribute bibliography to your clients (your
job), forget it.  You are not allowed.

The vendors are of course not to be blamed, because they are trying to
conduct legitimate business.  However, their very touchiness as evidenced
by goofy licenses reveals their awareness of how easily the monster of
free bibliography could get out of the attic.

Perhaps bibliography should be treated as a utility, like electricity, gas
and interstates.

Chas. McFadden
VA Institute of Marine Science
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>From: Greg Bruno <gregb@amazon.sandiegoca.ncr.com>
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Newsgroups: bit.listserv.cdromlan
Date:         Thu, 24 Dec 1992 10:32:44 -0800
              <CDROMLAN@IDBSU.BITNET>
From:         gregb@AMAZON.SANDIEGO.NCR.COM
Subject:      Re: OED/Licensing

> Jennifer Heise, writes:

> The computer world is going to have to learn someday that the answer is not to
> make things more difficult to copy, but make them easier to buy.

Companies don't have the responsibility to make their products affordable.
Successful companies adjust to the market, they aren't in it for charity.

> When
> academics were expected to cough up $500 for a piece of software, they could
> not justify being honest and ripped-off (Microsoft ain't in danger of failing,
> kids; neither is Ashton-Tate.  Profits are being made.)

I just the love the attitude of "academics good, corporations bad". Whose
fault is it if you feel "ripped-off"?

You cast a 'yes vote' every time you purchase something. If you don't like
the product (poor quality, too expensive, etc.) you have the freedom not
to buy it.

> Fewer illegal copies
> were made when cheaper "academic" versions came out; fewer still when site
> licenses came out.  I can justify paying $75 for my copy of Microsoft Word for
> the Mac, but $450 is almost 1/3 the price of my computer-- and more expensive
> than a cheap word processor.
> One of the simple rules of intellectual property is that the price of
> producing it is fixed, no matter how many copies there are made (plus a teeny
> markup for copying & distribution).  The more copies you sell, the cheaper the
> per-copy production costs become.  If more people will buy at a lower price,
> you can work it out so that your profits are ABOUT the same.

So what? Companies are in business to maximize profit, not volume. If a company
can maximize its profit by offering a product at a lower price, then so
be it. But where is it written that there is ceiling on a company's profit?

> Plus, you can
> charge high prices to interpret your cruddy documentation (see DBASE), and
> make a bundle.

> Libraries, however, are in an all-the-market-will-bear situation, since there
> are a limited number of libraries, especially libraries with CD systems.

In this hemisphere, it's known as the free market.

Greg Bruno
gregb@amazon.sandiegoca.ncr.com
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Resent-Organization: Southern Methodist University
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.cdromlan
Date:         Mon, 28 Dec 1992 16:05:28 CST
              <CDROMLAN@IDBSU.BITNET>
Comments:     Resent-From: Will Stuivenga <VSGA1001@SMUVM1>
Comments:     Originally-From: Will Stuivenga <VSGA1001@SMUVM1>
From:         Will Stuivenga <VSGA1001@SMUVM1.BITNET>
Subject:      Re: pioneer minichanger
              10 Dec 1992 08:12:57 CDT from <DOUG@MLNC486.MLNC.COM>

On Thu, 10 Dec 1992 08:12:57 CDT Doug Tremere said:
>We have been selling the Pioneer CD-ROM changers for almost 2 years now,
>and have only had 1 returned (defective out of the box) out of
>approximately 200 sold.  I *NEVER* reccommend they be used on a network of
>any type, for reasons I have already seen someone point out, so I won't
>repeat them.
>
>I think they are terrific standalone machines, but have a limited use.
>
>Doug Tremere                        MLNC, Missouri Library Network Corp.
>equipment@mlnc486.mlnc.com          St. Louis, MO        1-800-264-3799
>
What about using the Pioneer changer on a LAN, but for a single product
which requires more than one disk?  Such as UMI's Dissertation Abstracts
(DAI) which currently requires 3 or 4 backfile disks, plus the current
subscription disk.

First scenario:  Imagine that we're paying the LAN license fee for a
"single simulaneous user" if you can imagine such a beast.  The idea
being that putting DAI on the LAN makes it accessible from everywhere
on campus, without having to trudge to the library to use it, but usage
may not be high, and "single simultaneous use" might be sufficient.
In this scenario, "thrashing" could never occur, since only one person
at a time would address the changer.

Second scenario:  Usage increases, and we pay UMI for additional simul-
taneous users.  Currently, they charge a flat $300 per additional simul-
taneous user on a network.  Let's say we decide 3 simultaneous users are
sufficient, and fork out the extra $600 to UMI.  Now we have the potential
problem of one user wanting a backfile disk at the same time another user
wants the most current disk.  Might there be a way to program the software
somewhere along the way to restrict that request?  Whichever user gets on
first, subsequent simultaneous users are restricted to searching the same
disk as the first individual.  Or is this too farfetched a notion?

Comments?  Problems?  Solutions . . .??

Will Stuivenga  <VSGA1001@SMUVM1> or <VSGA1001@VM.CIS.SMU.EDU>
Database Services Reference Librarian, Fondren Library
Southern Methodist University, Dallas, TX  75275-0135
(214) 768-3666    fax (214) 768-1842

"standard disclaimer"
"A man ought to read just as inclination leads him; for what he reads as a
task will do him little good."  Samuel Johnson
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Newsgroups: bit.listserv.cdromlan
Date:         Wed, 23 Dec 1992 14:35:21 EST
              <CDROMLAN@IDBSU.BITNET>
From:         James Jay Morgan <MORGANJ@UCS.INDIANA.EDU>
Subject:      RE: CDPlus

We use BINDVIEW to gather information about user connect time to charge
our external users.  I've found Bindview plus ver.3 to be accurate and
useful since we received it this month.  However it reviews only Novell
bindery stats, so it won't generate stats for systems like Meridian's
cdnet or other independent types of cdrom lan servers.

We have 2 problems with cdpstats.  The first is that users don't formally
end their session on our free inhouse terminals, so a second user often
sits down and picks up the session without being counted or answering
questions.  We set the timeout to 3 minutes to close sessions as quickly
as possible, but this was inneffective because in Plusnet2 the timeout
doesn't work in several of the modules - most importantly the browse
module.  The second problem with cdpstats is that if the session does
timeout, cdpstats does not count it as a completed session.  This may
cause the discrepancy Alan mentioned.

Before we went to Plusnet2 we had a home-brewed counting system that
counted the number of times users started our Lan-based cdrom medline
system.  It was quite a shock to see the number of sessions drop from
c.2500 a month to 1100 a month when we upgraded to the Plusnet2 system,
especially when we were serving more users.

We charge our external users for time used, so getting an accurate reading
of their use was essential. Bindview produced this easily.  My next task
is to have it count the number of logins by user and by public station.  If
this succeeds we'll have the equivalent of the counting system I used
for the old network, and without the trouble of monitoring each station.

I should note that the number of logins for the public stations will not
equal the actual number of users because of the timeout problem, but at
least it will be closer to 2500 than 1100.

We are hoping that CDPStats will be improved in the new Plusnet2 ver3
(OVID).  However in talking with a test site in Nov. I heard that the
new stat package was not yet available (at least at that site).

Jim Morgan
MORGANJ@INDYVAX.BITNET  MORGANJ@INDYVAX.IUPUI.EDU
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Date:         Tue, 29 Dec 1992 10:45:00 EST
              <CDROMLAN@IDBSU.BITNET>
From:         "D.E. 'Dave' Bloomberg" <BLOOMBER@FAUVAX.BITNET>
Subject: Re: pioneer minichanger --> Scenes 1 & 2

    Hi,

    Re: 1st Scene.....

    A) UMI doesn't scam their code to count users (as far as I've seen),
    so YOU would have to use some type of metering software to
    prevent other user access.  B) You are assuming that the Pioneer
    changer would allow the redirector LAN software (CBIS,
    Optinet...) to tie up drive letters; Then in theory, this
    scenario "should" work.  Thrashing should not occur, if the meter
    works correctly, then you have a Very Expensive Stand-Alone
    Networked Soultion (VESANS).

    Re: Scene 2......

    A) Pioneer changers on a LAN are asking for trouble.  Except for
       Scenario 1 above...They are ONE player units with multiple disc
       access; they are NOT Jukeboxes.

    B) Scene 2 is impractical for most people to contend with.  Get
       the 4 single disc players and give access to all 3 users to
       all for discs.  This allows the maximum growth potential too.
       With Pioneer players around $1000, you are only talking an
       extra $1000 to give you FOUR $500 players each of which should
       be much faster than the Pioneer.


Scenario 1 is an interesting idea....It could give people a way to
"re-use" the Pioneers down the road....and give One user-licenses
access to the LAN.


Dave Bloomberg
BLOOMBER@FAUVAX\
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X-ccMail-Date: 12/22/92 12:20PM
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Newsgroups: bit.listserv.cdromlan
Date:         Tue, 22 Dec 1992 13:12:00 PST
              <CDROMLAN@IDBSU.BITNET>
From:         Nick G Carter <ng_carter@CCMAIL.PNL.GOV>
Subject:      Re: CD_ROM for CE dept. Library

On 12/22/92 Dr. Arkin asked:

>Subject:       CD-ROM for CE Library
>We are trying to decide about a CD-ROM for our library, at the National
>Institute for Building Research, Israel.  This is a scientific library,
>serving some 100 researchers in the fields mentioned below.  We prefer
>that the Databases will include mainly (though not only) English
>written articles in scientific or scientific-popular periodicals or in
>scientific books.  It should cover the following topics:

>1.  BUILDING MATERIALS AND TECHNOLOGY;
>2.  CONSTRUCTION MANAGEMENT AND ECONOMICS;
>3.  PHYSICAL PERFORMANCE OF BUILDINGS;
>4.  BUILDING SERVICE SYSTEMS (HVAC; PLUMBING; ELECTRICITY; ELEVATORS
    ETC.);
>5.  STRUCTURES.

We are using the Dialog OnDisc product, Compendex Plus One.  This gives you a
complete year of Compendex (Engineering Index), and quarterly (soon to become
monthly, I think I read) Updates for another year.  Thus, at the end of two
years, you have a decent span of information.  I believe that Dialog has other
time spans of this product available.  In our Sci-Tech library, it is one of the
most popular CDs we have.  The price is rather high, at $3500 for standalone,
and $7000 for network usage.  It has both the Dialog command menu searching, and
an "easy user menu" which is quite good.  ISI is also producing some technical
CD-ROMs, such as Chemistry, and Materials Science.

Nick Carter
Systems Administrator
Battelle Pac N'West Lab
Richland, WA
ng_carter@pnl.gov
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Newsgroups: bit.listserv.cdromlan
Date:         Thu, 24 Dec 1992 10:16:43 EST
              <CDROMLAN@IDBSU.BITNET>
From:         Bill_Erdman.LOTUS@CRD.LOTUS.COM
Subject:      CD-ROM Concepts Guide

Lotus has just published a CD-ROM concepts guide that is available at no
charge.  This guide discusses the overall storage benefits of CD-ROMs and
provides information on attaching CD-ROMs to the network.  While the guide does
not promote any specific products it does provide reference information for
many of the manufacturers and publishers who supply CD-ROM hardware and
software.

Please contact me at the below Internet address if you are interested in
receiving a copy.

Bill Erdman  (Bill_Erdman@crd.lotus.com)
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