HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: miles@ms.uky.edu (Stephen D. Grant)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: LUBES (PRELUBE?)
Date: 7 Apr 92 18:13:18 GMT
Organization: University Of Kentucky, Dept. of Math Sciences

sybok@athena.mit.edu (The Terminator) writes:

#What lubricants should I use on my parkarized 1911 for
#  (a) A general lubricant of outer surfaces and lockwork
#  (b) A bore lubricant which has teflon-like additives
#I'd prefer dry lubricants over oils, I think.
#Lastly, for a brand-new gun, that's never been fired, should it
#be taken down (field-stripped) and coated with lubricant before
#--T2

I have been trying a new product called "Tetra-Lube".
I am quite pleased with the "apparent" results. Although I personally have not
used a chronograph to verify the results, I have been told by someone that
used it and *did* use a chronograph that this stuff increased velocity in a
Remington 700 .308 by alomst 100 fps after the first use!
It uses a teflon-like polyflouromer. Only the "particles" used in Tetra-Gun
(sorry, its Tetra-Gun, not Tetra-Lube) are 5 times smaller than tgose found in
Teflon.
The manufacturer claims an increase in velocity of up to 10%, and an increase
in accuracy of up to 13%.
It also is effective in preventing corrosion by filling up the "pores" in the
metal with the "particles". They did a test where they submersed a firearm in
seawater for many hours with no corrosion apparent.
Also, on a standard lubricity test, the Tetra-Gun beats EVERYTHING! Including
triflow, rem-oil, break-free, wd40, and every other lubricant they showed.
In fact, it lubricated SO well, that the machine used in industry to measure
lubrication properties couldn't measure it (it went OFF the scale)!
Tetra-Gun can be bought from Champions Choice (or me) for about $20 a kit.
The kit contains oil (with particles), cleaner (non-toxic, with particles), and
grease (with particles) as well as a polishing cloth (impregnated with particle)
and patches, and swabs.
I bought a case for myself and my friends, and we are all pretty pleased.
I treated every gun I own with it.
From: btree!hale@UCSD.EDU (Bob Hale)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: Gun Laws
Date: 14 Apr 92 20:17:24 GMT
Article-I.D.: mimsy.53224
Organization: Brooktree Corporation, San Diego

In article <53079@mimsy.umd.edu> BCC100@psuvm.psu.edu writes:
#Please Help:
#
#     I am a student in Pennsylvania and currently own a Ruger GP100 .357
#magnum, a Remington 870 shotgun and a Marlin 336CS rifle.  I recently
#accepted a job in New Jersey and have heard stories about the gun laws there.
#Can anyone help me with the real story.  I would also like to know if it's
#possible to get a permit to carry concealed in New Jersey.  Thank you.
#                                                      B.C.


If you decide that it isn't currently feasable to have your guns in
New Jersey you might want to consider storing them somewhere for a
while.  It seems that the people of New Jersey voted out most of the
anti-gun types in the last election; perhaps the new representatives
will repeal or otherwise improve the New Jersey gun laws.

Bob Hale                                      ...!ucsd!btree!hale
...!btree!hale@ucsd.edu                       ...!ucsd!btree!hale@uunet.uu.net
From: dickwin@sequent.com (Dick Winningstad)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Glock 21
Date: 12 Apr 92 23:23:28 GMT
Organization: Sequent Computer Systems, Inc.

Anybody used a Glock 21?  I'm thinking of buying one, but would like
to hear from happy or sad users first.
What are the advantages or disadvantages to using this gun?

----------------------------------------------------------------------
Dick Winningstad           My boss isn't aware of any opinions I have.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
From: upchrch!joel@peora.sdc.ccur.com (Joel Upchurch  )
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: Advice on Polar Bear protection requested (no kidding!!!)
Date: 10 Apr 92 23:21:03 GMT
Organization: Upchurch Computer Consulting, Orlando FL

bobd@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (Bob DeBula) writes:

# In article <52863@mimsy.umd.edu> sybok@m4-035-13.MIT.EDU (The Terminator) wri
# #You could always hit the bear with a blast of 5% Capstun and see how well
# #it can chase humans it can't see, or engulf it in flames with a shotgun
# #shell of DRAGON'S BREATH(tm).
# #
# 
# I would think that doing either of these things to a Polar bear would
# get you top billing on the menu as the special du jour. Just my
# opinion of course. Anyone ever heard of someone who did anything like
# this to a bear and lived to tell? (It probably comes under the heading
# of "teasing the bear" as far as the park service is concerned :-)


As I recall there is some 10% Capstun marketed as bear repellent and
the way Capstun works should be effective against almost any mammal.
Of course any sane person would only try it if all their other
alternatives had been exhausted. It would probably be a good idea
to keep the can inside your parka, since I'm not sure how well the
propellents would work if they were cooled to 30 below.

(If your mail bounces use the address below. My map entry is new.)
Joel Upchurch/Upchurch Computer Consulting/718 Galsworthy/Orlando, FL 32809
joel@peora.ccur.com {uiucuxc,hoptoad,petsd,ucf-cs}!peora!joel (407) 859-0982
From: paulh@tekcae.cax.tek.com (Paul Hammer)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: alternating 00 buck and slugs t
Date: 10 Apr 92 18:20:39 GMT
Organization: Tektronix, Inc., Beaverton,  OR.


#Oh, and if you're steadfast on a shotgun, don't use any kiddy calibers like
#0.410 or 20-gauge--use a 12-gauge semi-auto with 00 Buck alternated with slugs
#in the magazine. :-)

Should a slug be first, or a 00 buck?

-rickf
From: osmith@abbott.SEAS.UCLA.EDU (Owen I. Smith)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: Scoring Targets
Date: 8 Apr 92 20:27:36 GMT
Organization: SEASnet, University of California, Los Angeles


In article <52677@mimsy.umd.edu> jheath@fieldofdreams.npirs.purdue.edu (Jim Heath) writes (in response to the question as to how groups are measured):
#
#Unless otherwise stated, I would assume they are measured from
#center to center.  The group size would be the distance between
#the two holes which are farthest apart.  If only one is off by
#itself, you will probably see some reference to a flyer.
#
#Just for curiousity, is there some reason why groups with larger
#numbers of shots in them are usually bigger?  Is it just that the
#shooter gets tired? 

Of course there's a reason.  A rigorous explanation would have to involve
statistics, but here's a simple illustration:

Suppose you fire 10 shots at the same target, keeping track of each shot
as it hits.  The size of the 10-shot group would be the distance between the
centers of the holes furthest apart, say 2 inches.  Alternatively, you could
view this a a set of five 2-shot groups, e.g. shots 1&2, 3&4, ... 9&10.
Now if the group size were independent of the number of shots, you would expect
the 10-shot group size to be equal to the average of the five 2-shot group
sizes.  However, a little reflection will convince you that this cannot possibly
be true.  For example, let's take the most favorable circumstance and suppose
that the two furthest apart shots were part of the same 2-shot pair, say 1&2.
The group size for the first 2-shot group would then be 2 inches (the
same as the 10-shot group).  The other 2-shot groups would obviously be 
smaller (since the first one contained the two shots that were furthest apart).
Hence, when the sizes of the five 2-shot groups are averaged, the result must
be LESS than 2 inches.  Actually, the situation is worse than this, because
it unlikely that the two furthest apart shots would be members of the same
subgroup.  In this case the average of the 2-shots groups will be still
smaller, e.g. further from the 10-shot group size.

Therefore, ON THE AVERAGE, a group of N shots will be AT LEAST as large as 
the LARGEST of M groups, each of consisting of N/M shots. Possibly, depending
on N and M, the N-shot group size will be MUCH larger.  Several conclusions
can be drawn from this

(1)  Unless the number of shots is quoted, the group size is meaningless
(2)  A 3-shot group, or even several of them, is not much of an indication 
     as to how well a rifle will perform in a typical competitive stage 
     consisting of 20-40 shots
(3)  Assuming the shooter has done his or her part, you might view the WORST 
     of as series of groups as being a truer representation of a rifle's 
     accuracy than the best (the one cut out and pinned to the wall by the 
     loading bench).



Owen I Smith; UCLA DEPT CHEM ENG; 5531 Boelter Hall; LA CA 90024; (213)825-2125
Internet:osmith@SEAS.UCLA.EDU                 UUCP: ... {ucbvax!ucla-cs}!osmith
From: n9020351@henson.cc.wwu.edu (James Douglas Del Vecchio)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: Advice on Polar Bear protection requested (no kidding!!!)
Date: 7 Apr 92 13:05:59 GMT
Organization: Western Washington University

rboudrie@chpc.org (Rob Boudrie) writes:

#   (a) Is *ANY* handgun cartridge useful against polar bears?  (He's
#       thinking of a .454 Casull)
#   (b) Are semi auto rifles appropriate, or does the cold weather 
#       interfere with reliability?
#   (c) What calibers and gusn are recommended?

.44 mag ought to have some utility.   .454 casull is hotter, but
the ammo is harder to come buy, and .44 mag will allow a six round
double action revolver, rather than a 5 shot single action revolver.
Of course, the 454 will have more terrible recoil.

.44 mag can be handloaded pretty hot, especialy in a sturdy gun like
the ruger super redhawk.   The hercules catalog lists a 240 grain slug
as being safe at 1,440 fps with some powders.   A 310 grain slug at
1,150 fps would deliver good penetration.   I've even seen hotter with
the heavy slugs.  

In .44 mag a good gun is the Ruger Super Redhawk, which comes stainless
with a 7.5 or 9.5" barrel.   The Ruger Redhawk comes in 5.5 or 7.5", and
lacks a scope mount, but that would be no consequence for carry.   The
shorter Redhawk is a big sturdy gun, but ought to be fine for open carry.

The S&W 29 and 629 in 5" would also be a good gun, but I doubt it can take
super hot handloading like the Rugers.     Either can take unlimited factory
loads and sensible handloading.

If he wanted an autoloader, he could look at a glock 20, which holds
15+1 rds of 10mm.    This is a far cry from .44 mag, and may be useless
against polar bear, but it is the next best thing.   The glock ought to
work at any tempeture, and the greater controlablity and # of rounds 
might make up for the weaker caliber in his mind.   He ought to get
the hottest heavy hollowpoints for this purpose.   I think some companies
load the 10mm to 170 grains at 1340 fps, but I may be wrong.

There are a few pistols, such as the LAR grizzley, and the imi Desert
Eagle, that fire the .44 mag, and the LAR (a heavy 1911 clone) is also
chambered for .45 win mag, which is a tad hotter than .44.    I don't
know if these pistols would be suitable.  Wildey also makes some high
powered hunting pistols in various obscure calibers.   .45 win mag is
sold in stores around here, but I wouldnt count on finding it anywhere.
I've always wondered how reliable the magnum autoloaders are.


For a rifle .458 magnum ought to be ok, however, I believe that this
caliber, along with .416 rem mag, are only to be had in double barrels
and bolt actions.   If he thinks he will have time to only need one or
two shots, they would do fine.  A 12 gauge shotgun slug ought to work also,
and in a more compact package.

the .458 is a 510 grain slug at 2040 fps
the .416 is a 400 grain slug at 2400 fps
the 12 ga   a 440 grain slug at 1760 fps

Jim Del Vecchio
From: miles@ms.uky.edu (Stephen D. Grant)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: Mini 14
Date: 10 Apr 92 23:21:07 GMT
Organization: University Of Kentucky, Dept. of Math Sciences

aeporro@ariel.lerc.nasa.gov (Bob Porro) writes:

#There's a gentleman that I see occasionally at the OGCA gun show who goes 
#by the name of Chief AJ and shoots Ruger 10/22's and Mini 14's exclusively.
#The last time I saw him, he had a display of customized Mini-14's.  I didn't 
#talk to him about how accurate these rifles were, but I got the impression that 
#he does accurize Mini-14's.  I don't have his address, but I think he is from 
#Illinois and does advertise in Shotgun News once in a while.
#| Bob Porro                    || (The opinions expressed here are not       |

Cheif AJ does do "reworks" on the mini-14, but unfortunately it requires that
the rifle be fitted with a new heavy barrel (read expensive).
He also does nice work on Mark IIs.
His 10/22s are quite accurate!
I have talked to him many times, and he seems to get good results. However,
his prices are not cheap and in my case were not worth it (except for the
Mark II accurizing job).
From: wernewa@sage.cc.purdue.edu (Wayne A. Werne)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: machine gun shoot
Date: 7 Apr 92 18:13:28 GMT
Organization: Purdue University Computing Center


 Well I guess its about that time of year again -- the second weekend of
 April.  The semiannual Knob Creek, KY machine gun shoot should be coming
 up and I wonder if anyone out there can confirm whether it is indeed on
 the 10, 11, and 12?  Replies before that time would be appreciated.  I know
 how to get there but I need to know when to get there.

 Thanks

 wernewa@sage.cc.purdue.edu   aka   Wayne Werne   aka   W^2
From: mtxinu!ataraxy.sybase.com!thorick@ucbvax.Berkeley.EDU (Thorick Chow)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: Shotguns vs Handguns (was: Gun Recommendations Sought)
Date: 9 Apr 92 14:04:32 GMT
Organization: Sybase, Inc.


In article <52611@mimsy.umd.edu> lriggins@galaxy.afit.af.mil (L. Maurice Riggins) writes:
#In article <52601@mimsy.umd.edu> bp816@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Stuart Krivis) writes:
#|One thing no one has mentioned...  Don't use handloads for self-
#|defense. They will make you out to be a monster in court if you
#|ever actually have to shoot someone.
#
#Why?  I doubt anyone is going to distinguish my handloads of Remington JHP
#in Remington cases from the factory ammo.
#

I was in a gun store once when a detective type was getting 'expert'
advice as to whether some 44 spl  cases picked up at the scene
of a crime were indeed handloads or factory...

the decision was 'handloads'..  the giveaways ?

in this case..  the primers were set a bit erratically in the cases
in a way that no fired factory ammo looks like.  Another consideration
would have been light scratch marks showing evidence of re-sizing,
but apparently, this person used new cases.

speculation, even if you did use Remington Bullets and Remington cases
(and Remington Primers !)...  if someone were really serious about
trying to prove something, wouldn't the burnt powder residue 
be a giveaway ?  Might they not match up residues from canister
grade powders (as opposed to the factory powders which may vary
more from lot to lot as I understand it) ?

-t.c.




.......................................................................
All of the above is from Thorick Chow - DoD #129, and not Sybase, Inc..

Chill the Planet..       Save the Old Growth Front Lawn...
From: anthrax@vax1.mankato.msus.edu
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: Sights on a Beretta 92
Date: 15 Apr 92 14:04:00 GMT
Organization: Mankato State University

In article <53182@mimsy.umd.edu>, james@teal.csn.org (Jim Phillips) writes:
# I AM NOT AN EXPERT AT AIMING A PISTOL.
# 
I own a 92FS (my baby) and i have a working knowledge at firing pistols (don't
claim to be an expert either)

# A friend of mine has a Beretta 92F.  It's a fun gun but we
# are having a bit of a problem.  The gun *seems* to shoot a 
# low and to the left.  At 25 yds I'd say the results are 
# about 12" low and about 6" left.  These are rough approximations
# of the center of the groupings from both of us. We are 
# shooting as slow and steady as we can using a rest. 
For the 92F Good shooters have no problem with 2" groups at 25 yards, it starts
going low after that...
 
# We are using factory reloads.
That could be part of the problem, but not enough to get the results you are 
getting.

# 
# We can compensate for this by aiming high but this is 
# undesirable as I normally like to *see* what I'm shooting at.  
# 

# We have considered these possible explainations...
# 
# 1. We're just bad pistol shots.  That's certainly possible
#    however, we are good enough to not experience the same
#    problem with my Browning Buck Mark (standard).  Granted,
#    there may be a big difference in aiming a 9mm and a .22
#    that we are not aware of.
I hate to say it but that's probably the case.

# 
# 2. This is an intentional feature of the Beretta (or all
#    pistols) for reasons that escape me.
That's not it.
# 
# 3. This is an artifact of using factory reloads.  I believe
#    we are using UMC ??? or something like that.
# 
# 4. The sights are askew.  Since they are fixed sights how 
#    could this happen?  How could they be corrected?
If the sights were askew to the point where you were getting the results that
you are getting, they would be pretty noticeable.

# 
# 5. There is something wrong with the gun.  My friend is
#    not the original owner.
That could be it too.

# 
# Please let me know if you have any ideas on what the problem
# could be.
# 
# Thanks in advance
# james
I'd suggest bringing it to your local Berretta armourer or authorized dealer
and haveing them look it over to make sure the previous owner didn't screw it
up somehow.  It the gun is ok, it's most likely your skill level.  Practice
makes perfect (or at least a reasonable facsimily thereof).  It takes time, It
still shoot a tad low and to the left, myself, but I do that with my other
pistols also, so I know it's the user that is defective and not the weapons.

Good Luck.  92's are fine weapons.

Eric Huber
Mankato State University
Law Enforcement Program
From: baechler@lia.di.epfl.ch (Emmanuel Baechler)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: .357 145 gr. Sivertip
Date: 7 Apr 92 18:13:02 GMT


#Are you allowed to re-load your own bullets?
#
#  Do they place the same restrictions on bullets (only) as they do on
# live rounds?

Reloading is perfectly legal. In fact I am considering to buy a preogressive
press for my .357. For self defense I however prefer to stay with commercial
ammunition.

Emmanuel Baechler.
Laboratoire d'Intelligence Artificielle
Ecole Polytechnique Federale de Lausanne
MA-Ecublens
CH-1015 Lausanne	Switzerland
Tel.: ++41-21-693-2732
e-mail: baechler@liasun6.epfl.ch
Standard Disclaimer

Ban the bomb. Save the world for conventional warfare.
From: me@asmodeus.u.washington.edu (My Account)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: bullet & gasoline truck
Date: 12 Apr 92 21:30:51 GMT
Organization: University of Washington

In article <53046@mimsy.umd.edu> miles@ms.uky.edu (Stephen D. Grant) writes:
[part omitted for clarity]
# running and showing that the motor does NOT die. They also shoot tires and
# show that they do not "blow up". All in all a very good video.

Well, if you shoot the block with a .44 MAG then damn right it's gonna stop  
functioning (I should know, I'm a mechanic)

Engines just don't like running with cracked blocks...

-Cohort
From: gwyn@smoke.brl.mil (Doug Gwyn)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: 9mm vs 40S&W - which to choose?
Date: 14 Apr 92 14:30:51 GMT
Organization: U.S. Army Ballistic Research Laboratory, APG, MD.


In article <53072@mimsy.umd.edu> barry@uts.amdahl.com (Barry Needham) writes:
#The .40 S&W is an OK round, the primary advantage being that it can fit in a
#smaller package than the full house 10mm or .45 ACP; and it's much better than
#a 9.

Right.

#  The real point is that ballisticly the 10mm can do everything that the
#.40 S&W can, and a whole lot more besides.

But projectile ballistics are not the whole picture.

#For example, the .40 S&W and 10mm Hydroshock rounds are identical; same bullet
#weight (180 Grains) and velocity (980 FPS).  The advantage that the 10 has is
#that it can go higher, much higher.

The obvious question is, why did Federal download their 10mm Hydra-Shok then?
I think the answer is that, as the FBI determined, maximum 10mm loading was
actually a disadvantage in typical practice, and that downloading made for
improved controllability (perhaps also for improved pistol longevity).

#Now penetration, or over penetration, can be a very interesting subject.  It
#depends a lot on what type of problem you're trying to solve.

Right again.

#...  I see the advantage of the 10 in that I can load to solve
#any of these, and in my mind more is probably better than less.

It's certainly nice to have options.  I'm not convinced that 10mm is the
best option if you expect to have trouble with 300-lb armored bikers or
especially bears, but it would undoubtedly have an edge over .40S&W in
such situations.

On the other hand, if you're not carrying the 10mm gun because it is too
big, you would have been better off with a compact .40S&W or even perhaps
a .25ACP if that's what would have been carryable at the time.  Such
factors need to be taken into account when selecting a gun.  Concentrating
on just one aspect, say caliber, is as foolish as buying a car based
entirely on its paint color or a stereo based entirely on its advertised
"wattage".
From: webdw@mvutd.att.com (Bruce D Woods)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: polar bear...
Date: 10 Apr 92 18:20:18 GMT
Organization: AT&T

In article <52923@mimsy.umd.edu> spacelab@milton.u.washington.edu (scott west) writes:
#In article <52683@mimsy.umd.edu> glock@glock.chip.cba.ufl.edu (Joe Granto (BACL)) writes:
##The .454 Casull is a good round, but...
##
##
##I think the Desert Eagle .50 would be the way to go.  It is nice and heavy, 
##which means the kick shouldn't be that bad.  It is also semi-auto, wich is 
##just too much.  The bullets it shoots are about the same weight and velocity 
##shot out of a musket...

The .454 Casull can be loaded to higher KE levels and power
factors than the .50 DE.  But, that's not the main point;
the point is that if it is cold, unless you are carrying the
DE "cocked & locked" you may have a problem getting it to operate.
Even the DE safety might be balky at cold temperatures.  At -20 F.
I would want a revolver not a semi-auto for a polar bear.

But, as Canadian netters have noted, stage the polar bear
experiment in Alaska so the handgun is perfectly legal.

BDW
From: baechler@lia.di.epfl.ch (Emmanuel Baechler)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: SIG Sauer P226 vs. P228
Date: 10 Apr 92 18:20:00 GMT

In article <52919@mimsy.umd.edu>,  (Lee Mellinger) writes:

|> 
|> The original designation of the P7 was PSP, the P7 refers to the
|> BDR competition.  The Bundeswehr adopted the P7 as their standard
|> sidearm after an evaluation similar to the US Army's.

And "PSP" are the intials of "Polizei Selbstblade Pistole". As you mentionned
the P7 designation comes from the german police evaluation. I didn't hear
however that the german army adopted it as its standard sidearm. Do you have
any detail about this?


-- 
Emmanuel Baechler.
Laboratoire d'Intelligence Artificielle
Ecole Polytechnique Federale de Lausanne
MA-Ecublens
CH-1015 Lausanne	Switzerland
Tel.: ++41-21-693-2732
e-mail: baechler@liasun6.epfl.ch
Standard Disclaimer

Ban the bomb. Save the world for conventional warfare.
From: jackson@bluemoon.rn.com (jack cole)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: machine gun shoot
Date: 9 Apr 92 14:04:44 GMT
Organization: Blue Moon BBS ((614) 868-998[024])

wernewa@sage.cc.purdue.edu (Wayne A. Werne) writes:

# 
#  Well I guess its about that time of year again -- the second weekend of
#  April.  The semiannual Knob Creek, KY machine gun shoot should be coming
#  up and I wonder if anyone out there can confirm whether it is indeed on
#  the 10, 11, and 12?  Replies before that time would be appreciated.  I know
#  how to get there but I need to know when to get there.
# 

I'm looking at my flyer and the dates are Friday April 24 thru 
Sunday April 26.  If you want to confirm, their phone up there is 
(502) 922-4457.


Is fearr an troid na` an t-uaigneas
               -  The Rambo Republican
The Rambo Republican