From: ems@michael.apple.com (E. Michael Smith)
Newsgroups: rec.autos.tech
Subject: Re: Methanol in gas, detergent fuels
Date: 14 Oct 92 20:00:46 GMT
Organization: Apple Computer Inc, Cupertino, CA

In article <1992Oct13.001009.17529@jhunix.hcf.jhu.edu> roskar@kavazi.uucp.jhu.edu (Tsuma Kavazi) writes:

>Today I heard that some gas refiners are adding up to 10% METHANOL to
>their gasolines. Is that legal?

It is legal, but I don't think it is done ...
 
In California, all the gas pumps that have alcohol blends in them
have this little sticker on them that says something like 'THIS 
GASOLINE CONTAINS ETHANOL' or some such.  It is a standard sticker
and looks like a government mandated label.  (I could be wrong, but
I think it is mandated by law that alcohol blends be so labled on the
pump.)  I've never seen one stating that METHANOL was blended with
the gas...

Also, I've run alcohol blends in several cars & trucks.  One of them,
a big block Ford V8 doesn't work well AT ALL on alcohol blends.  (It
just barely lights off on gasoline when cold!  Real Hard starts on
alcohol blends when cold.  This is blended gasoline that I've mixed
up myself so that I knew the percent alcohol.)  The truck happily
runs on any of the standard pump gasoline, but complains bitterly
about any labled with the contains alcohol label (by hard starting).

I think this indicates that there is no alcohol hidden in the standard
gasoline ...

>For example, Atlantic (formerly ARCO), gets the methanol from their
>chemical processing industry. 

I've heard this rumor about ARCO before, and have never found any
evidence to support it.  I regularly buy most of my gas from ARCO,
and the Ford Truck runs just fine on it.  It also doesn't have the
particular smell that alcohol blended gasoline has (you can smell
a few percent of alcohol in the gasoline... honest).  Unless you 
can cite a reference on this, it has to be classed as baseless rumor.

>BMW (autos) has recommended against the
>use of methanol in their cars because it may damage parts in the
>fuel/emissions lines.

Methanol can soften and 'rot' some plastics and rubbers.  It does 
nothing to some others.  IF the manufacturer used one of the plastics
that is subject to 'rot', you may have to replace some plastic parts
or fuel line.  Methanol MAY accelerate the corrosion of SOME light
metal alloys used in such parts as carburettors.  I've done a test
of methanol corrosion facilitation that found it to be no worse than
water in most cases, and less corrosive than water in many.  Depending
on how the carb was constructed and the exact set of stuff in the gas,
this may or may not be a problem (there are corrosion inhibitors that
can be blended in with the gas that prevent the 'problem'.)

The bottom line:  Trust what your manufacturer says.  They know what
materials they used in building the fuel system.

>I was aware that ethanol-added gases are bad for cars NOT designed to
>run on gasohol, but why is methanol bad?

Ethanol blends are basically harmless to almost all cars.  
There may be some with some peculiar materials that would not work well
with ethanol blends.  There may be some with gas tanks that would be
prone to more corrosion on ethanol blends.  I would expect those same
cars to suffer far worse fates from a little water contamination in
the gasoline ...

What IS a problem with ethanol blends, is cold starting in SOME engines.
I have a Honda that will eat up to a 1/3 ETHANOL blend and still run fine.
I have a Ford that won't start on 1/10 ETHANOL when cold.  It all 
depends on the engine...

You can blend up to 15% ETHANOL into gasoline for MOST cars with no
evidence that anything at all is happening ...

-- 

E. Michael Smith  ems@apple.COM

'Whatever you can do, or dream you can, begin it.  Boldness has
 genius, power and magic in it.'  -  Goethe

I am not responsible nor is anyone else.  Everything is disclaimed.
Newsgroups: rec.autos.tech