HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: clamen+@CS.CMU.EDU (Stewart Clamen)
Subject: Re: Torah is the center of every Jew? (was Orthadox Judaism and women)
Originator: clamen@BYRON.SP.CS.CMU.EDU
Reply-To: clamen+@CS.CMU.EDU
Organization: School of Computer Science, Carnegie Mellon University
	<1993Jan26.043618.4828@netcom.com>
	<1993Jan26.220346.18877@newshub.ariel.yorku.ca>
	<1993Jan27.011848.17965@blaze.cs.jhu.edu>
Date: Thu, 28 Jan 1993 00:29:53 GMT

In article <1993Jan27.011848.17965@blaze.cs.jhu.edu> arromdee@jyusenkyou.cs.jhu.edu (Ken Arromdee) writes:

   >Theoretically, it's
   >better to let it die out, than to practice *another* religion under the
   >Jewish name.  However, that's all theoretical.  Judaism has lasted the
   >longest of all religions.  Throughout all the persecutions and exiles,
   >Judaism has persisted.  This is not just luck.  It is because there is a
   >deeper meaning to Judaism, and many people recognize it.

   Why _can't_ it be just luck?

   After all, there had to be _some_ religion which survived.  They
   can't _all_ go away.  If we were all Baal-worshippers today, we
   would be saying "isn't it such a wonderful thing that worship of
   Baal has survived for thousands of years"?  In fact, no matter
   which religion has survived, and no matter what reason it has
   survived for, we would be sitting here saying the same thing.

   If there were no deeper meaning to Judaism, and no deeper meaning
   to any religion, we would _still_ say "oh, look how well <pick
   religion> has survived", simply because there has to be some
   religion that does so.  So survival can't possibly tell us anything
   about it.

While it is certainly the case that we cannot authoritatively
determine WHY Judaism has survived as long as it has (I tend to think
one important reason is because non-Jews have always reminded Jews
that they are different), your thesis neglects the fact that not all
religions were created at the beginning of time.  New religions/sects
often spring up and supplant older ones. (The United States has been a
fertile society for new Christian sects), and can replace older ones.
Islam, for instance, did a good job at replacing the pagan religions
of the Arabs and other Asian and African groups.

   It's just luck.

Luck is part of how I interpret many of the Biblical "miracles": the
timing of the Ten Plagues, the "splitting" of the Reed Sea, the mana,
the conquest of Canaan.  If they hadn't all happened, the Israelites
wouldn't have survived as they did.

--
Stewart M. Clamen			Internet:    clamen@cs.cmu.edu
School of Computer Science		UUCP: 	     uunet!"clamen@cs.cmu.edu"
Carnegie Mellon University		Phone: 	     +1 412 268 2145
5000 Forbes Avenue			Fax:	     +1 412 681 5739
Pittsburgh, PA 15213-3891, USA
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
From: joe@dogface.austin.tx.us (Joe Zitt)
Subject: Re: Send a fax to the Almighty!!!
Organization: The Fortress of Ultimate Dorkiness
Date: Sat, 23 Jan 1993 06:39:50 GMT

This is a longshot... but are there any systems in Jerusalem that could gateway
email to a given pseudo-user out to a fax to the Kotel?
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish,talk.politics.mideast,soc.culture.african.american
From: steven@maui.cs.ucla.edu (Steve Berson)
Subject: Re: Martin Luther King Quotes
Organization: UCLA, Computer Science Department
Date: Thu, 21 Jan 93 20:13:50 GMT

jhf@dbrus.Unify.Com (Jeff Fields) writes:

>In article <1jh6jtINNgvm@msuinfo.cl.msu.edu> friedenb@silver.egr.msu.edu (Gedaliah Friedenberg) writes:
>>
>>Being the day after Dr. Martin Luther King's birthday, I felt that it
>>might be nice to post a few of his quotes.  There are many more like
>>these, but I don't have time to look up more at this time.
>>
>>"When people criticize Zionists, they mean Jews; you're taking anti-Semitism"

>Although I am an advocate of M.L.K., I believe that what he said here is
>both a generalization and a promulgation of a term that lacks meaning. I
>know that there are some Jews who do not support Zionism, i.e. not all
>Jews are Zionists nor are all who criticize Zionists anti-Jewish.

>Also not all Semites are Jews. Anti-Semitism was a term invented in the
>Zionist movement of the 19th century. It should have disappeared from
>the world vocabulary then. The Semites are a geographical class of people
>who have traditionally inhabited the area in and adjacent to the modern
>nation of Israel. There are many tribal and religious divisions in the
>Semitic peoples, which include Muslims, Jews, and Christians.
>Jeffery H. Fields               email: jhf@dbrus.unify.com

Someone sent me a more complete version of this quote which I 
include here in which Martin Luther King explains in more detail
what he means about Zionism and anti-Semitism.
Steve

---------------------------------------------------------------------------
From ucla-cs!usc!apple!agate!shelby!lindy!news Fri Jul 20 11:36:32 PDT 1990
Article: 23074 of talk.politics.mideast
From: tova@carson.u.washington.edu (Tova Stabin)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
Subject: Re: Sephardic music
Date: 22 Jan 93 15:12:56 GMT
Article-I.D.: shelley.1jp2toINN9ee
Organization: University of Washington, Seattle
NNTP-Posting-Host: carson.u.washington.edu


rita falbel has some fine tapes out.  check out the next issue of bridges
a journal for jewish feminist and our friends.  it will have an article
about sephardic music and a rountable discussion by various jewish
musicians.  it should be out soon.  write if you need info.
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
From: david@bourbon.ee.tulane.edu (David Kaufmann)
Subject: Re: Alter Rebbe?
Nntp-Posting-Host-[nntpd-26408]: bourbon
Organization: Department of Electrical Engineering, Tulane Univ.
Date: Sun, 24 Jan 1993 04:31:57 GMT

In article <199301211402.AA25753@das.wang.com> MASH@WEIZMANN.WEIZMANN.AC.IL (Michael Shimshoni) writes:
>In: <199301202107.AA26609@cybernet.cse.fau.edu>
>Murray Kahl <kahl@cybernet.cse.fau.edu> brings:
>
>>Tanya for January (gated for YY Kazan)
>
>It starts with:
> >
>>[In the previous chapters, the Alter Rebbe discussed the difference
>
>I am always puzzled when I read this title the Alter Rebbe which means
>the old Rebbe.  I understand that this is how the Chabbad people refer
>to their  founder.  But why  "Alter"? Now  this title surely  fits the
>present Lubavitcher Rebbe,  him being alive but  not especially young,
>but it  seems odd to be  used for a  dead person.  Why not  Rebbe Zal,
>Zatzal, olev  hasholem, if  we already  use the  Yiddish pronunciation
>etc.?
>
>If one could at all give such a  title to a dead teacher, would it not
>fit Moshe much more? Just curious.
>
The honorific "Alter Rebbe" derives from two fact: Rabbi Schneur
Zalman was a child prodigy, young in years but old in wisdom. He was
an expert in halacha and the revealed Torah at a young age and was
called the prodigy of Liadi. (One reason why he was asked to write an
edition of the Shulchan Aruch.)

The other comes from the distinction made by Chabad Chassidim between
himself and his son and successor, Dov Ber, known as the Mitteler
Rebbe (Middle Rebbe). 

Hope this helps.

>Michael Shimshoni


David Kaufmann
INTERNET:	david@bourbon.ee.tulane.edu
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
From: nabil@ncrcol.ColumbiaSC.NCR.COM (Nabil.Idriss:)
Subject: Re: Was ARAFAT A GIRL?
Organization: NCR E&M Columbia SC.
Date: Thu, 21 Jan 93 16:12:13 GMT

In article <4655@bimacs.BITNET> ehrlich@bimacs.BITNET (Gideon Ehrlich) writes:
>In article <277@jcpltyo.JCPL.CO.JP> ohayon@jcpltyo.JCPL.CO.JP (Tsiel
>Ohayon) writes:
>
>>In article <4653@bimacs.BITNET> ehrlich@bimacs.BITNET (Gideon
>Ehrlich) writes:
>
>>>He was born as Yassir Arafat .
>>> "Abu musa" is a nice name he selected, what I overcome is the
>   ^^^^^^^^^
>>>fact that ABU X means , in Arabic, "the father of X " usually that
>>>means that the person actualy has a son named X , but Arafat has no
>>>known son called Ammar ( neither any other son).
>>> Gideon          ^^^^^
>>No Arafat is Abu Ammar, Abu Mussa is another guy. Saddam is now called
>>Abu TimTum.
>>^^^^^^^^^^
>>Tsiel
>
>Please read more then one line when responsing.
>I made the mistake of using " Musa" but later on I wrote the correct
>nick-name of that Yasir.
>
>Abu Timtum Meanth : "the father of idiotism" which , when considering
>Arabic, means " The bigest idiot"
>
>Gideon


Timtum? Is this an Arabic or Hebrew word? I have never heard it before.


-- 
Nabil Idriss                           |   We take customer satisfaction  
NCR - Midrange Products Division       |   personally.
      Columbia, South Carolina         |      
email: nabil@ncrcol.ColumbiaSC.NCR.COM |
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
From: arromdee@jyusenkyou.cs.jhu.edu (Ken Arromdee)
Subject: Re: Torah is the center of every Jew? (was Orthadox Judaism and women)
Organization: Johns Hopkins University CS Dept.
Date: Wed, 27 Jan 1993 01:18:48 GMT

In article <1993Jan26.220346.18877@newshub.ariel.yorku.ca> cs922177@ariel.yorku.ca (DANIEL T FARKAS) writes:
>Theoretically, it's
>better to let it die out, than to practice *another* religion under the
>Jewish name.  However, that's all theoretical.  Judaism has lasted the
>longest of all religions.  Throughout all the persecutions and exiles,
>Judaism has persisted.  This is not just luck.  It is because there is a
>deeper meaning to Judaism, and many people recognize it.

Why _can't_ it be just luck?

After all, there had to be _some_ religion which survived.  They can't _all_
go away.  If we were all Baal-worshippers today, we would be saying "isn't it
such a wonderful thing that worship of Baal has survived for thousands of
years"?  In fact, no matter which religion has survived, and no matter what
reason it has survived for, we would be sitting here saying the same thing.

If there were no deeper meaning to Judaism, and no deeper meaning to any
religion, we would _still_ say "oh, look how well <pick religion> has
survived", simply because there has to be some religion that does so.  So
survival can't possibly tell us anything about it.

It's just luck.

(Besides, if it wasn't luck, the same argument would imply that Christianity
and Islam have deeper meanings than Judaism.)
--
"On the first day after Christmas my truelove served to me...  Leftover Turkey!
On the second day after Christmas my truelove served to me...  Turkey Casserole
    that she made from Leftover Turkey.
[days 3-4 deleted] ...  Flaming Turkey Wings! ...
   -- Pizza Hut commercial (and M*tlu/A*gic bait)

Ken Arromdee (arromdee@jyusenkyou.cs.jhu.edu, arromdee@jhunix.hcf.jhu.edu)
From: ehrlich@bimacs.BITNET (Gideon Ehrlich)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
Subject: Re: Send a fax to the Almighty!!!
Date: 24 Jan 93 06:57:14 GMT
Organization: Math department, Bar-Ilan University, Ramat-Gan, ISRAEL

In article <C18MJ7.9Jt.1@cs.cmu.edu> clamen+@CS.CMU.EDU writes:

>I am having trouble chuckling and dismissing this story, for two
>reasons:
>
>1) Assuming that this will be a very popular service (the version of
>   the story I read had American long-distance providers AT&T and MCI
>   expressing interest in this service), how are they going to find
>   room for all the paper?
>
>2) While I don't know the source of the custom, but I always assumed
>   that you were expected to insert the paper note yourself.
>
 To my best knowledge the origionator of that idiotic custom of puting
the garbage beneeth the western wall stones is Rabin who hold the
title of chief of staff during the six day war.
When he arrived to the western wall he put there some written paper.
Religious persons never put papers ther.
It may be that the custom was somehoe develped from the hasidic custom
of transfering requests to a rabbi through his gurdian (shamash) in
order not to disturb the Rabbi . (quitlach).
That custom was developet later to a custom of putting quitlach ar
Hasidik rabis tombs and later on at other zadikim tombs as well.
There was an old custom among Jews at Jerusalem to put a nail in the
western wall when leaving Eretz Yisrael, as a sign for the hope to
return back ( and taking that nail back ?).

 ( The editorial of Hazofe a religious daily , said that the action of
the Israeli post is one more example of buissnessing everything).

  Shalom   Gideon

Xref: sparky soc.culture.jewish:25759 soc.culture.german:10108
From: monaghan@dcs.glasgow.ac.uk (N.O. Monaghan)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish,soc.culture.german
Subject: Re: Jews For Germans
Date: 21 Jan 93 08:54:30 GMT
Organization: Glasgow University Computing Science Dept.

siegfried_r@spcvxb.spc.edu writes:
>	World War II was clearly Germany's fault, and despite its great public 

Well, let us be fair and also acknowledge that blame for the Second
World War in Europe must also be put on the Soviet Union - certainly not
Germany alone.

---------------------------------------------------------------------
N.O. Monaghan

monaghan@dcs.gla.ac.uk
---------------------------------------------------------------------
From: CFRQC@CUNYVM.BITNET (ToraByte Int'l)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
Subject: A Byte Of Torah - The Plug
Date: 28 Jan 93 05:24:59 GMT
Organization: City University of New York/ University Computer Center


 /////////////////////////////////////////                                 B'SD
         ////                             /////////
        ////  //////  //////    //////  ///     // //   // //////// ///////
       //// //    // //   //  //    // ///     //  //  //    //    //
      //// //    // //   //  //    // /////////    // //    //    //
     //// //    // //////   //////// ///     //     ///    //    /////
    //// //    // //   //  //    // ///     //      //    //    //
   ////  //////  //    // //    // /////////       //    //    ///////
  ////

Shalom Rav L'Ohavei Torasecha! A Byte Of Torah has a subscription list on
israel.nysernet.org. If you would like to subscribe, please send e-mail to
listserv@israel.nysernet.org with the msg :

                  SUB bytetorah <first name> <last name>

This will allow you to receive the current issue as soon as it is published.

                                     L'hit!
                                Zev S. Itzkowitz

                       ____________         ___*___
    T o  B o l d l y  (____________)       (_______)  G o  W h e r e  N o
       Y i d  H a s               \\      //   v        G o n e  B e f o r e
                                   \\    //
            /////                ___\\__//_
       *       //               (__________}                           *
      * *      //         // //                                       * *
   * * * * *  ///////// // // /////// //////// /// /// /// //////  * * * * *
    *     *          // // //      //       //  //  //  //   //     *     *
   * * * * *         //            /        //  // //  //    ///   * * * * *
      * *            //                     //  ////  //      //      * *
       *         /////                ///////// ///////       /        *
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
From: @SEARN.SUNET.SE: 27916070@PLEARN.BITNET
Subject:      MASTURBATION/HANDSHAKING Halachah-Forbidden?
Originator: scj@israel.nysernet.org
Reply-To: <@SEARN.SUNET.SE: 27916070@PLEARN.BITNET>
Organization: Nysernet
Date: Mon, 25 Jan 1993 20:31:58 GMT

Are the following things forbidden by Halachah (Jewish Law)?
(1) Fe/male MASTURBATION
(2) HANDSHAKES
    (a) Jewish Female:Jewish Male
    (b) Jewish:Nonjewish
        (aa) Jew/ess:Goy/ah Idolater/ress
        (bb) Jew/ess:Goy/ah Nonidolater/ress
Your references, opinions, comments, etc. much welcome. Thanks.
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
Subject: Re: ANTISEMITE - Is there a better word? [NO]
From: EXTDSM@LURE.LATROBE.EDU.AU (MADDISON,David)
Date: Fri, 22 Jan 1993 05:55:32 GMT
Organization: La Trobe University
X-News-Reader: VMS NEWS 1.24

I wrote: 
> ...Technically, semites are members of a group which share the semitic 
> languages and include Jews, Arabs, Assyrians etc, all of whom are 
> descendants of Shem. ...


I wrote this because of the wide spread confusion about the use of the term
anti-Semite. Of course, the above-mentioned people are all "semites" which is
why there is confusion with the word. According to the Oxford English
Dictionary, Second Edition, anti-Semite is defined as follows and there can be
no confusion if this correct definition is used and understood:

anti-Semitism Theory, action, or practice directed against the Jews. Hence 
anti-Semite, one who is hostile or opposed to the Jews; anti-Semitic a.

<examples of usage>

1881 Athenaeum 3 Sept. 305/2 The author, apparently an anti-Semite. Ibid.,
Anti-Semitic literature is very prosperous in Germany.

1882 Athenaeum 11 Feb. 184/1 In these days of anti-Semitism.

1935 Economist 24 Aug. 366/1 The Nazi Party stalwarts..have all been leading an
anti-Semitic, anti-Catholic, anti-Protestant..crusade.

1941 J.S. HUXLEY Uniqueness of Man ii. 50 Germanic nationalism on the other
hand and anti-Semitism on the other.


David Maddison
Melbourne, AUSTRALIA
From: ohayon@jcpltyo.JCPL.CO.JP (Tsiel Ohayon)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
Subject: Re: ARAFAT IS A GIRL
Date: 25 Jan 93 08:35:04 GMT
Organization: James Capel Pacific Limited, Tokyo, Japan

In article <1993Jan23.031041.10947@wam.umd.edu> wnbc@next01pg2.wam.umd.edu (Joseph Samuel Kaufman) writes:
>It is true.  Arafat was a girl.  What happened was, they chopped one of  
>his big toes off and sewed it on his private area to make him look male.   
>The only problem is now he pees out his foot.

Ha Ha Ha Ha! Is this the Jewish Joke of the day? If it is why is I'm not
laughing? Com'on guys, lets not get down to the level of some of the people
on this net.


Shavoua Tov


Tsiel
-- 
----8<--------------------------------------------------------------->8------
Tsiel:ohayon@jcpl.co.jp	   | If you do not receive this E-mail, please let me
Employer may not have same | know as soon as possible, if possible.
opinions, if any !         | Two percent of zero is almost nothing.
From: faigin@aero.org (Daniel P. Faigin)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
Subject: Reading Lists
Date: 24 Jan 93 06:26:04
Organization: The Aerospace Corporation, El Segundo, CA
Distribution: soc
NNTP-Posting-Host: solarium.aero.org

I'm going to risk something. I tried posting the updated reading lists last
night, and cross posted them to soc.answers and news.answers because they're
part of the FAQ. They disappeared into the ether. They may eventually show up
again; I have no idea if the moderator received them. So, I'm going to repost
the lists just to s.c.j; if they show up again due to the moderator, please
bear with me. Although I'm old to the net and this group, I'm new to the
process of soc.answers.

Yours for more informed Jews.

Daniel
--
[W]:The Aerospace Corp. M1/055 * POB 92957 * LA, CA 90009-2957 * 310/336-8228
[Email]:faigin@aerospace.aero.org              [Vmail]:310/336-5454 Box#13149
		    "And as they say, the rest is compost"
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
From: dbtdxc@ARCO.COM (David Chapin)
Subject: Re: Davidic Lineage
Organization: ARCO Oil and Gas Company
Date: Tue, 26 Jan 1993 15:39:54 GMT

In article <1993Jan25.220636.6510@cbnewsl.cb.att.com>, sethr@cbnewsl.cb.att.com (seth.r.rosenthal) writes:
> 
> There have occasionally been posts from people talking
> about Davidic lines, in particular missionaries make the
> claim that we have lost all of our Davidic lines.
> 
> Interestingly, in "The Jews of Muslim Spain" there is
> some discussion about the roots of various communities
> of Jews in Spain, and in connection with this it is
> stated that the Abrabanel (Abravanel) family tradition
> was that it was Davidic, descended from Judaean
> nobles who were brought to Spain at the time of the destruction
> of the Second Temple.
> 
> If anyone has to answer the question, from where can the Messiah
> come, here is one answer.
> 
> 
> 		Seth Rosenthal
> 

You might want to look up the subject in the publication "AVOTAYNU:
Journal of Jewish Genealogy". There has been a running debate about
this very subject - I believe it was in the Winter issue. The argument
centers around the ancestors of the Rashi line, which apparently is 
one of the best documented lineages and one that can be traced perhaps
the furthest back in history. I won't bore you with the details, but
suffice it to say that for the Rashi lineage (and for any other lineage that
claims Davidic descendency), there is no solid or documented evidence
of such a linkage. For instance, in the Rashi lineage, there are numerous
gaps, where the direct lineage is simply not known. When you go farther back
in time, the lineage relies more upon word of mouth or second and third
hand testimonials, many of which are several centuries after the fact.
It's certainly possible that descendents from certain families may be
Davidic. However, the ravages of time (especially in the earliest part
of the Middle Ages) have obliterated the record. This is unfortunate, as
the lineage appears to be fairly well documented from David Melech up
until Roman times. Perhaps someone will uncover a document from the early 
Middle Ages that will disclose the missing link. 

        David Chapin
        dbtdxc@er.arco.com
From: chrism@cirrus.com (Chris Metcalfe)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
Subject: Re: Bitachon (Trust)
Date: 27 Jan 93 04:11:01 GMT
Organization: Cirrus Logic Inc.

In article <6324@ceylon.gte.com> sg04@gte.com writes:
>
>
>In article AA17284@das.wang.com, MASH@WEIZMANN.WEIZMANN.AC.IL (Michael Shimshoni) writes:
>]I rather  stop here. The Rebbe  by any possible twist  has to support
>]the believe in the  "good" God.  As I have stated  before on scj, with
>]the Holocaust and its one  million (lacking of merit?) Jewish children
>]and  babes, and  the  many millions  of others  murdered,  no talk  of
>]"revealed bad" but "concealed good", can *conceal* the fact that there
>]was no God there  when he was needed, all the rest  is just talk, talk
>]and talk.
>]
>
>If Michael will permit it, could I tease him just a bit?
>
>I think the problem is exactly that: people decide where they want to stop.
>They will let an argument go only to the point where THEY decide. If the
>argument goes beyond what they already have decided is the "wrong" answer
>they close their minds and solve the problem of further discussion.
>
>In this case. There are incidents in a person's life when bad things happen,
>but then at later date the individual himself decides that there were for
>the good. There are incidents that occur that for the rest of the individuals
>life there is no revealed good to that individual, but others might be
>able to see the good in it. Then there are incidents where all humankind
>cannot see the good in the event. Death and the Holocaust would certainly
>qualify. 
>
>Yechezkal Shimon Gutfreund

For example, I've often heard people comfort themselves that a superpower
government would never actually go to the extreme of nuclear war, because
of the Machiavelian principle that the first order of business is to 
protect the prince's ruling status; the fact that there would be nothing 
left for the leadership to govern violates this principle.

But the manner in which Germany prosecuted WWII, fighting to the death while
the infrastructure was bombed out of existance, and the depth of horror
in the Holocaust, are a glaring historic statement that modern European
governments are capable of pathological self-destruction.  No one should
remain inactive in the struggle to control nuclear weapons, and the 
simultaneous arrival of the Holocaust with the Bomb may add the "meaning"
necessary to avert catastrophy.

-- Chris Metcalfe