HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: entropy@world.std.com (The Entropic one)
Subject: Clinton delays more, keep calling!
Organization: The World Public Access UNIX, Brookline, MA
Date: Thu, 28 Jan 1993 10:23:40 GMT

According to the latest batch of Clarinet articles Clinton has decided
to put off removing the ban. They didn't give many details but I assume
this means that he will not be ordering the military to stop discharging
people.

Does anyone know if anyone will be in Washington protesting? If anyone
is I'm in the mood to join them.

While Clinton has wimped out some, the real target of any protests should
be congress, expecially democratic leaders who turned on us.

Is QN or any other groups starting a fund to remove these bozo's from
office? If so where do I send my check. 

Lets keep the phone lines tied up long after the fundies have stopped.
-- 
------  Linux, Religion, and electronic shopping all in one place!
\    / Repent of Bean eating, MS-DOS, OS/2, and windows NT, no sales man
 \  / will hassle you, no priest will sacrifice you. Free 9600 baud download.
  \/ Call the Virtual World Information Systems BBS at 508-793-9568        
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: mike@gordian.com (Michael A. Thomas)
Subject: Re: Clinton is President, Bush is not even history
Organization: Gordian; Costa Mesa, CA
Date: Thu, 21 Jan 1993 18:32:17 GMT

In article <1993Jan21.131625.7630@macc.wisc.edu>, anderson@macc.wisc.edu (Jess Anderson) writes:
> Be that as it may, a program of disarming the people is even
> less likely to succeed than the War on Drugs, and as I'd
> like actual and incipient fascism to cease being a force in
> this society, I think it's a mistake to conflate one's
> anti-gun sentiments with those worthwile objectives.

  I would go further to say that a disarmed populace is
ripe for any thug to plunder -- a chilling thought considering
the quality of thugs which we have around.
 
> The answer to fascism is to push a better program.  What the
> fascists have that we don't have is single-mindedness and
> excellent organization.  Liberals by their nature are always
> weak on organization.

  I don't think this is quite on target. "Conservatives", in the
true sense of the word (ie those who want the status quo) are
always weak in organization. It is the activist front which
always will be better organized, be it socialism, fascism, 
theocracyism, or, even, libertarianism. 
  The fact that religious right has become radical only speaks
to the fact that they are *not* part of the status quo. The 
fact that "liberals" are weak in organization (now) speaks 
greatly to the notion that they *are*.
-- 

		Michael Thomas	(mike@gordian.com)
	"I don't think Bambi Eyes will get you that flame thrower..."  
		-- Hobbes to Calvin
		USnail: 20361 Irvine Ave Santa Ana Heights, Ca,	92707-5637
		PaBell: (714) 850-0205 (714) 850-0533 (fax)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: lazarus@wixer.cactus.org (Michael Lax)
Subject: Homoeroticism on Northern Exposure
Organization: Real/Time Communications
Date: Tue, 26 Jan 1993 13:04:19 GMT

Last night on Northern Exposure (a repeat) Maurice got an antique
clock - which came with a _beautiful_ technician to install it.  While
this technician (who's charachter name I forget) was eating at the Brick,
he saw Ed and started talking to him.  Ed took him home, showing him
his video collection - and, when asked, showed him his broken movie
camera.  Well our friendly German fixed it.  They then started going around
town filming this and that, and Ed took some shots of his new friend.
At the end of the show, after his new friend had left, Ed was watching
the film, and smiling at his new friend.  Yes, this could just be a
perfectly unsexual friendship, but.....
From: rhayden@oracle.com (Ronald Hayden)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: Prodigy/Genie/et. al.
Date: 25 Jan 93 22:56:33 GMT
	<1j3q5mINNgc0@transfer.stratus.com>
Organization: Oracle Corporation, Belmont, Ca.
X-Disclaimer: This message was written by an unauthenticated user
              at Oracle Corporation.  The opinions expressed are those
              of the user and not necessarily those of Oracle.

In article <1j3q5mINNgc0@transfer.stratus.com> lmann@vineland.pubs.stratus.com (Laurie Mann) writes:

   I've been active on GEnie for about a year and a half, mostly in the science  
   fiction area (which is extraordinarily active).  There is "private space" for  
   gay folks and their friends, and some public discussion elsewhere.  The phobe  
   level seems quite low.  There is a reasonably active "Homosexuality in Fantasy  
   and Science Fiction" area in the science fiction BBS, which tends to be a  
   meeting area for gay, bi and gay-supportive people in fandom.  It's only 
   $4.95 a month for GEnie Basic services (unlimited access to many bulletin
   boards between 6pm and 8am---real time conferences extra hourly charges ($6
   an hour at nights I think)).  GEnie isn't very user-friendly, but it is
   quite inexpensive.  By contrast, most USENET news reading software is
   more user-friendly.

A good friend of mine (Martha Soukup) is a sysop in GEnie's science
fiction roundtable, and she is extremely gay-friendly.  Hell, even
though she's straight, until I got active recently she was much more
of a gay-rights crusader than me!
--

  - Ronald Hayden

    ----------------------------------------------------------------
   | Documentation Manager, Oracle Toolkit Group                    |
   | Co-chair of Oracle Lambda, Oracle's Gay/Lesbian/Bisexual group |
   | Writer, magician, and various other things                     |
    ----------------------------------------------------------------
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: jls2@spdcc.com (Jeff Stoner)
Subject: Tuesday on TV
Organization: S.P. Dyer Computer Consulting, Cambridge MA
Date: Mon, 25 Jan 1993 18:44:32 GMT

Noticed in the TV listing in the Sunday paper here that there will be a
show of interest on Tuesday night on NBC... Here's what little was in the
listing:

	First Person with Maria Shriver
		"The Gay 90's: Sex, Power and Influence"
			Shriver examines the homosexual community's
			growing influence in mainstream America.

	(Boulder/Denver: Channel 4; Tuesday; 9 p.m.)

-- 
====== Jeff L. Stoner === Boulder, Colo. ============ /\ = /\ ========== |
   Work: jls2 @ ellery.esi.com                   /\  /  \ /  /\  /\    --*--
   Home: jls2 @ bearhug.boulder.co.us         /\/  \/    /  /  \/  /\    |
   News: jls2 @ ursa-major.spdcc.com       /\/  \   \  /\  /    \    /\
From: tdbear@dvorak.amd.com (Thomas D. Barrett)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: Clinton Names White House E-Mail Director
Date: 27 Jan 93 18:56:10 GMT
Organization: Advanced Micro Devices, Inc.; Austin, Texas

In article <C1Hno9.9ou@athena.cs.uga.edu> wells@athena.cs.uga.edu (Scott Wells) writes:
>There's not a useful e-mail address yet, and nothing like
>bill@whitehouse yet.

That one and bill@oval.gov got as far as ames.arc.nasa.gov for me :)
-- 
|Tom Barrett (TDBear), Sr. Engineer|tom.barrett@amd.com|v:512-462-6856 |
|AMD PCD MS-520 | 5900 E. Ben White|Austin, TX  78741  |f:512-462-5155 |
|"No is yes, And we're all free" ---Tracy Chapman, "Why?"              |
|My views are my own and may not be the same as the company of origin  |
From: pfritsch@skid.ps.uci.edu (Paul Fritschle)
Subject: Re: Initiatives Planned in Other States
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Organization: Miskatonic University Department of Computer Science
Distribution: usa
Date: 23 Jan 93 17:23:56 GMT

buckmr@rpi.edu (Ron Buckmire) writes:

>_NEWSWEEK_ magazine has reported that anti-gay ballot initiatives are being
>organised in 11 states, namely: 

>MICHIGAN
>IDAHO
>OHIO
>WASHINGTON
>MONTANA 
>MINNESOTA
>CALIFORNIA

My understanding is that the right to privacy stated in the California
should make such an initiative as unconstitutional as a ban on
abortion would be.

>MAINE
>GEORGIA.

>   
>---
>RON BUCKMIRE
>Fundraising Committee for the Procurement of a mesh tank-top for LL Cool J
>11 Colvin Circle, Troy, NY 12180-3735
>uunet!rpi.edu!buckmr||buckmr@rpitsmts.bitnet||buckmr@rpi.edu||+1 518 276 8910
--

Paul Fritschle                                         pfritsch@skid.PS.UCI.EDU
                 Have you hugged YOUR shoggoth today?
From: steven@cray.com (Steven Levine)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: finding each other at MOW... an idea
Date: 27 Jan 93 21:46:58 GMT
Organization: Cray Research, Inc.

John Dorrance:
>>Okay, fine then. We'll all be Steven groupies and tote bass drums.

Brian Jarvis:
>I'll have one hell of a time explaining it at the border...

It's luggage, Brian.  Remove one head of the drum and stuff
if with all the chiffon and chintz you will be needing
for the weekend of the March.  Then replace the head.

My old volkswagon beetle once drove from New York City to
Boston with four people, their weekend luggage, a baritone
horn, a trombone, a trumpet, and a bass drum.  The key?  Stuffing
the soft luggage in the drum before tying the drum to the
roof.

Today's drum travel tip:  Loosen your drum heads before
checking your drum on to the plane.

-Steven Levine
 steven@cray.com

[Why am I talking about this?]
Newsgroups: soc.motss,pnw.motss
From: jackies@fc.hp.com (Jackie Sheddy X6958)
Subject: Re: Question? Military Ban
Date: Thu, 28 Jan 1993 06:43:48 GMT
Organization: The Edge of the Final Frontier
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1.3 PL6]

Bil Snodgrass (snodgras@lclark.edu) wrote:
: 
: But I have a question.  How did this one issue become our
: playing card into the Federal Government?  Why didn't we
: push Clinton to fight for a "federal equal rights" bill?

	I  think  it  became  our  'playing  card'  because  during  the
	campaign,  Clinton  promised  to  lift  the  ban on gays  in the
	military.  He has  shown  that  he is  willing  to  back  up his
	campaign promise.

: It appears that Clinton is very very pro-Gay so again why was this
: one issue pushed?  

	Again  it goes  back to a  campaign  promise.  I don't  think he
	wants to be remembered like his "read my lips" predecessor.

: Bil Snodgrass III
: (I am not condemning the move...I am excited that anything is up
: there, I am just wondering how this approach is going to help
: the rest of us.)

	The  military  is one of the last  bastions  of  bigotry in this
	country.  (that is, aside from a lot of religions) If we can get
	this  issue  resolved,  I feel that we will  have  come one step
	closer to gaining rights in other areas.

--
Regards,

Jackie
jackies@hpxxx.fc.hp.com
Hate is NOT a Family Value!!
From: lazlo@triton.unm.edu (Lazlo Nibble)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: Arthur S. DeMoss Spots... news release
Date: 27 Jan 93 18:43:37 GMT
Article-I.D.: lynx.1k6l4pINNrmv
Distribution: usa
Organization: Mr. Lazlo's Temple Of The Mighty Rude-Boy Skank
NNTP-Posting-Host: triton.unm.edu

tdbear@dvorak.amd.com (Thomas D. Barrett) writes:

> "Kind and gentle way"?  Bull-hockey... "I wasn't born, I was aborted"  is
> not such a kind and gentle way.  No wonder that particular spot has been
> withdrawn.

Withdrawn?  Maybe in some markets, or maybe it's not being placed in
nationally-broadcast spots, but it's still airing.  I saw it this past
Sunday.

--
Lazlo (lazlo@triton.unm.edu)
From: sbgreene@phoenix.Princeton.EDU (Steven Greene)
Subject: Where is Ron Dellums? (was Re: Congressional Contacts...)
Originator: news@nimaster
Organization: Princeton University
Date: Wed, 27 Jan 1993 14:43:56 GMT

Has anyone heard from Rep. Ronald Dellums, Mr. Liberal himself, the new
chair of the House Armed Services Committee?  Why hasn't he had
anything to say about lifting the military ban?  Maybe we should get
on the phone to him.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------
I hear the distant thunder-hum, Maryland!               Steven Greene
The Old Line Bugle, fife and drum, Maryland!            greene@choice.
She is not dead, nor deaf, nor dumb--                   princeton.edu
Huzza! she spurns the Northern scum!
She breathes! she burns! she'll come! she'll come!    (Time to change
Maryland! My Maryland!                           the state song, no?)

Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: ecl@cbnewsj.cb.att.com (Evelyn C. Leeper)
Subject: Re: Congressional Contacts on Military Unban?
Organization: AT&T
Distribution: usa
Date: Wed, 27 Jan 1993 15:37:36 GMT

In article <1993Jan26.125528.17136@mic.ucla.edu> cjones@physci.ucla.edu (Chad Jones) writes:
> Here are the numbers for the California Senate delegation:
> Barbara Boxer  voice (202) 224-3553  [they wouldn't give me the fax
> number.  "It's for emergencies only."]  Los Angeles Office  (310) 414-5705

To which my response would undoubtedly have been, "This *IS* a fucking emergency!"

Evelyn C. Leeper  |  +1 908 957 2070  |  att!mtgzy!ecl or  ecl@mtgzy.att.com
--
"To make the point [that homosexuals hamper military effectiveness] I'd
say that you would have to sift through your military history till you
find an instance in which failure has been attributed to the presence
of homosexuals on the losing side.  I'm not aware of any such case in
the past 2500 years, but I'd be interested to hear what you find."
-Nathan Engle
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: rjwill6@PacBell.COM (Rod Williams)
Subject: Re: No Liberty Without Ethics
Organization: Pacific * Bell, San Ramon, California
Date: Wed, 27 Jan 1993 21:27:33 GMT

> onr@netcom.com (D. Owen Rowley) writes:
>> smoir@world.std.com (Scott A Moir) writes:
>>The basis for having equality for all of us exists in the rules that our
>>country uses now. We need to point out the fact that they are there, they
>>are being ignored, and that this must change. I agree that we need to
>>stick to a set of ethics, but that could mean as simple a concept as
>>self-consistency.
>
>The republican senator ( can't recall the anme right this minute) who
>came out on Clintons side yesterday said as much.
>
>Simply put, equal rights should be applied equally.

It was Senator Al D'Amato of New York.  And he might have
learned it from the late Justice Thurgood Marshall...

"Equal means getting the same thing, at the same time, and in
the same place."
-- 
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
rod williams -=- pacific bell -=- san ramon, ca -=- rjwill6@pacbell.com
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: ah505@yfn.ysu.edu (Brian Quinby)
Subject: Re: Pedophilia as sexual orientation
Organization: Youngstown State/Youngstown Free-Net
Date: Wed, 27 Jan 1993 06:30:32 GMT


Maria (LASAGA@corral.uwyo.edu (LASAGA) writes:

pedophilia "involves the desire for sexual gratification
from another nonconsenting human being, ...

Since when did "nonconsenting" or consenting enter the definition?

		Brian
From: LASAGA@corral.uwyo.edu (LASAGA)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: Pick and Choose? (was Re: God is intolerant of sin!)
Date: 25 Jan 1993 15:17:00 -0600
Organization: UTexas Mail-to-News Gateway
NNTP-Posting-Host: cs.utexas.edu



In article <1993Jan25.055718.22462@syacus.acus.oz.au>,
brent@syacus.acus.oz.au (Brent Davies) writes:

>smithw@col.hp.com (Walter Smith) writes:
>
>>Evelyn, what is your religious upbringing?  Were you taught any of 
>>the tenants of Christianity, from the point of view of any denomination
>>in particular, or any at all?  Do you really not have any understanding 
>>as to why laws like those from Leviticus are not still followed, while 
>>sexual morality/conduct ones are?   
>
>WHAT?! You gonna try and tell me that the injunction against looking upon
>"the nakedness of thy son's daughter or thy daughter's daughter" was a
>*ceremonial* injunction and not a *moral* one?

And what about the injunction against a man having sex with his wife
when she is menstruating?  That's in Leviticus, too.  It says something
about how a man shouldn't even look upon the nakedness of a woman
who is menstruating (I believe the technical term in the passage
is "unclean")  For shame   :-)

-maria
From: dh0a@ns1.cc.lehigh.edu (DONALD L. HARDY)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Born vs. Made
Date: 28 Jan 93 15:40:41 GMT
Organization: Lehigh University

A co-worker of mine is receiving tons of flack for supporting the proposition
that homosexuality is a physiological phenomenon.  Other people in the
office claim that being gay is a lifestyle choice.

For some reason they don't ask ME about it.  Seems to me that *I* would know
a LITTLE bit about it.  :-/

Does ANYONE out there have sources, studies, documented information
supporting the "homosexual men and women are born that way" theory of sexual
orientation?  Any reference material would be appreciated: studies, graduate
theses, books, films, ANYTHING.  E-mail the name and author and any other
bibliography type information directly to me, please.  I will save it and
combine it and post it.

My address is dh0a@lehigh

Thanks.

Donald
-- 

******************************************************************************

Donald L. Hardy                                    Office of Physical Planning
Project Planner                                    Lehigh University
dh0a@lehigh.edu                                    (215) 758 5110
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: henry@ADS.COM (Henry Mensch)
Subject: Re: Prodigy pulls the plug
Organization: Advanced Decision Systems; a div of Booz, Allen & Hamilton
Date: Thu, 28 Jan 1993 07:44:57 GMT

larry@bradley.bradley.edu (L. D. Stratton) wrote: 
->Prodigy has terminated an adult section of their BB center.  

ordinarily, i'd be inclined to ask why you spend your money on
prodigy.  isn't netnews enuf?  :)

--
# henry mensch / booz, allen & hamilton, inc.  / <henry@ads.com>
# "fight the real enemy."  -- sinead o'connor, and many others.
From: nelson@reed.edu (Nelson Minar)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: ALL ELEVEN STATES: a person in Iowa
Date: 24 Jan 93 23:23:14 GMT
Article-I.D.: reed.1993Jan24.232314.16806
Reply-To: nelson@reed.edu (Nelson Minar)
Organization: Reed College, Portland, OR

In article <1993Jan24.133830.10124@iscsvax.uni.edu> weaverli0469@iscsvax.uni.edu writes:
>As a person that has just come out, the note "ALL ELEVEN states ..."
>has got me in an uproar. What does that exactly mean for me as a
>peoson from Iowa?

It means you've got a lot of work to do. Welcome to the fight, sister,
it's a long haul.

If you're still at the University of Northern Iowa, where you are
posting from, then you've got a wonderful base of people to organize
from. Form a group, fight the bigots. We need all the help we can get.
                __
nelson@reed.edu \/  Homosexuals were invented for an episode of Barney Miller
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: anderson@macc.wisc.edu (Jess Anderson)
Subject: Re: Arne Adolphson, Moron At Large
Organization: Madison Academic Computing Center, UW-Madison
Date: Sun, 24 Jan 93 20:47:01 GMT

In article <1993Jan24.063940.14104@adobe.com>
asente@adobe.com (A Usenet Pal) writes:

>In article <1993Jan14.203815.12526@spdcc.com>
rdonahue@spdcc.com (Bob Donahue) writes:

>>	(Yes, dearie I know that Portal ain't a UNIX box, but it 
>>was UNIX boxes that made theARPANet...

>Where DO these children get these ideas?

Gawd only knows!!  For anyone interested in something a
little closer to the facts, check out "Internet System
Handbook," by Daniel C.  Lynch and Marshall T.  Rose, ISBN
0-201-56741-5 (Addison-Wesley, 1993), $58.95.  An excellent
book all around, the first part gives considerable history,
written mostly by the people who made it.

Casual networkers may find it too technical, in which case
the more user-oriented "The Whole Internet," by Ed Krol,
ISBN 1-56592--025-2 (O'Reilly, 1992), $24.95.  Does not go
into the history of the Internet, however.

<> Do you think that you shall enter the Garden of Bliss
<> without such trials as came to those who passed before you?
<> -- Quran
-- 
[Jess Anderson <> Madison Academic Computing Center <> University of Wisconsin]
[Internet: anderson@macc.wisc.edu <-best, UUCP:{}!uwvax!macc.wisc.edu!anderson]
[Room 3130 <> 1210 West Dayton Street / Madison WI 53706 <> Phone 608/262-5888]
[---------> Discrimination, Bigotry, and Hate are not Family Values <---------]
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: tim@ear-ache.mit.edu (Tim Wilson)
Subject:  Re: "No Wavering on Gay Soldiers"
Organization: Massachusetts Institute of Technology
	<AWOOTTEN.93Jan21160942@slacktide.cv.nrao.edu>
	<1993Jan22.151129.5392@dvorak.amd.com>
Date: Sat, 23 Jan 1993 02:14:02 GMT

In article <1993Jan22.151129.5392@dvorak.amd.com>
tdbear@dvorak.amd.com (Thomas D. Barrett) writes: 

   Clinton, as well as Bush, is welcome to publically come out in favor
   of one program or another, but it is ethically wrong for them to force
   their ideology on the rest of the nation if the rest of the nation
   wants something else.  That is the main thing that is wrong with
   politics now.  We have a bunch of old queens sitting on seats of power
   and dispensing their tired old beliefs.  It is the PEOPLE that they
   represent who should have the voice... especially in major policy
   decisions.

The only thing that's clear, regardless of the opinion polls and the
exit polls and the call-in shows, is who got enough votes to win.  No
single voter goes in and endorses every position of any candidate.
Except for referenda, the voice of the people is expressed in who won.
The referendum process sometimes shows just how awful the majority
might behave in a democratic system.  

Can you think of a good example?  What?  Those folks in Colorado, in
Colorado Springs aren't people?  They're not my kind of people, but
they're people, nonetheless.  And they're a big part of "the people."
Too big of a part for my tastes.

Believe me, I'm perfectly happy to go about getting people who might
not wholeheartedley support gay rights -- and you know I mean equal
rights for gay people -- to vote for politicians who do.  I want the
rights that are properly mine.  I want them instituted, and I want
them to have time to settle in and become the status quo.  I have a
hard time imagining that happening by giving "the people" all the
choices.  We'll be waiting forever to get our rights without the
bravery of some inspired politicians going against the will of "the
people."

--
Tim Wilson
Internet:  tim@ear-ache.mit.edu	
UUCP:  mit-eddie!mit-athena!tim
Bad Colorado.  No business.
From: lmann@vineland.pubs.stratus.com (Laurie Mann)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: Congressional Contacts on Military Unban?
Date: 28 Jan 93 13:23:00 GMT
Reply-To: lmann@vineland.pubs.stratus.com
Organization: Stratus Computer Inc, Marlboro MA
NNTP-Posting-Host: ansible.pubs.stratus.com

Robert Coren writes
>In article <C1I5nq.IGA@unix.amherst.edu>, twpierce@unix.amherst.edu (Tim  
Pierce) writes:
>> In article <1993Jan26.152523.17237@news.columbia.edu>  
jsb16@cunixa.cc.columbia.edu (Jennifer S Broekman) writes:
>Well, I called them anyway. I figured it wouldn't hurt to give them
>reinforcement, especially as Kennedy chose this moment to announce
>that he was (finally) signing on as a sponsor of the Federal gay
>rights bill. I wanted to make sure that I was recorded in favor.

Good!  I hear we all should be writing Senator Kerry thank-you notes after  
making an excellent speech against the ban yesterday in the Senate.  Maybe I'll  
add Kennedy to the list.

>What *I* hope is that the gay and supportive folks in the 3rd and 6th
>are *deluging*  Blute and Torkildsen with calls.

I can't call during the day (too bad they don't have E-mail addresses ;-))
but I did write Blute a very strongly-worded letter against the ban.  I haven't  
heard anything back yet.  I'm 90% certain Blute is a phobe, but it's worth  
reminding him that not all his constituents are.

** lmann@vineland.pubs.stratus.com (Internet) Laurie.Mann (GEnie) **
******      And now for something completely different...     ******
Newsgroups: soc.motss