HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: stave@frost.apollo.hp.com (Joel H. Stave)
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
Subject: Re: Which is most effective? Point/Edge weapons.
Date: 10 Apr 92 19:47:04 GMT
Article-I.D.: apollo.1992Apr10.194704.29611
Reply-To: stave@frost.apollo.hp.com (Joel H. Stave)
Organization: Hewlett-Packard Apollo Division - Chelmsford, MA

In article <ogorman.702929015@unix1.tcd.ie>, ogorman@unix1.tcd.ie
(Lucifuge) writes:
|> One thing which no-one seems to have mentioned is guards. I can't understand
|> the guards on japanese weapons. They seem to offer absolutely minimal
|> protection. European weapons seem (to me) to be vastly superior in this
|> respect. Then again I know nothing...
|> 
|> Ollie...

According to my kenjutsu instructor the guards are more to keep
your hands from sliding down onto your own blade, than to keep another
blade off your hands.  A lot of the guards are made from brass, bronze
or copper and are not particularly thick or solid and would be quite
easy to cut through.

Joel Stave
stave@apollo.hp.com
From: scheid@danzan.EBay.Sun.COM (David Scheid)
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
Subject: Re: Question on Musashi
Date: 12 Apr 92 17:08:53 GMT
Article-I.D.: male.kugrl5INN3uf
Reply-To: scheid@danzan.EBay.Sun.COM
Distribution: na
Organization: Sun Microsystems, Inc.
NNTP-Posting-Host: danzan.ebay.sun.com

In article 25447@bronze.ucs.indiana.edu, izar@shuldig.huji.ac.il (Izar Tarandach) writes:
>	I remember Sensei comenting that Musashi was twice defeated
>while wandering in search for duels, and that one of the times it
>was by a ninja using a war fan (a metal fan, not a guy that likes
>war...). Having found no reference to this in the Go Rin No Sho, I
>turn to the Net-wisdom in search for an answer: does anybody knows
>the story, and also the other defeat ?

Musashi was defeated only once. It was by Muso Gonnosuke of Jo-jutsu
fame. Gonnosuke created the Shindo Muso-Ryu based upon his study of
the Jo. (He did not like the Bo, feeling it too long and awkward.)

In the book, "Musashi", there are two duals with Gonnosuke (as I recall).
The first did not fare well for Muso as he was using the Bo. He took
the experience he gained from his initial combat and applied it to the
Jo. A few years went by and again he and Musashi dueled. Again, he felt
Musashi's sword near his belly and declared himself once again the loser.
"Not so!" declared Musashi, who open his shirt and showed Muso the mark
on his chest where the Jo struck. If it had been real, that blow would
have been a killing strike & Musashi's sword would never have completed
it's path.

---
Dave Scheid - All Disclaimers Apply
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
From: bud@ms.uky.edu (William K Glunt)
Subject: Re: What's the point?
Date: Mon, 13 Apr 1992 04:26:51 GMT
Organization: University Of Kentucky, Dept. of Math Sciences
X-Bytes: 

In article <1992Apr12.223017.6948@uoft02.utoledo.edu> fax0243@uoft02.utoledo.edu writes:
>	So what's the point of karate, anyway? Our school is very informal and
>the main reason people go is to learn a little self defense, stay in shape, and
>have some fun. Doesn't seem like too many of our instructors (don't call 'em
>senseis here) really have any other point to karate than to be able to defend
>one's self when the going gets tough. 

Howdy Sonya,

 In the end, as with with a lot of things, the only real meaning has to
come from within yourself.  Enjoy the trip.

>	Probably the closest we have ever come to actually covering anything
>about what the whole deal with this karate thing is was when our instructor Rod 
>started reading _Zen In the Martial Arts_ to us. Unfortunately some mom in the
>kids class got ticked off because she thought he was teaching "eastern
>religion" or something...

 Heh heh...not too long ago someone I know was told, seriously, that
all martial art classes are cults.  Heh.

>	Bringing me to my point... What do you all get out of karate? I have
>three things that I think most people get out of karate no matter what style or
>school they come from. Those are: 1). Self defense abilities, 2). Self-esteem
>(at least a little), 3). More or less physical fitness.
>

 There are these, and in my case, the main source of my drive.  I started
training when I was 12 and overcoming the various difficulties encountered
has left me with the firm belief that you really can start from scratch
and do something good with your life, if you refuse to let ANYTHING stop
you.

>I'm just wondering if there's some thing I should actually work for in my quest
>for black belt?
>

  Well, I'll give you some unasked for advice. Don't quest after that
black belt.  If it's going to really mean something, it'll be a symbol
both of achievement and your teachers belief in you.

 Now, if you want a quest,  try making that horse stance a little better
every day.  Despite the smile, I'm dead serious!  :-)

Osu!

Bud

>Sonya Chang
>fax0243@uoft02.utoledo.edu
>


-- 
Dr. William K Glunt     | Are you ABNORMAL?
************************| Then you are probably better than most people!
U of Kentucky math dept | Are alien space monsters bringing a STARTLING NEW
home phone 606 258 8864 | WORLD?  from _The book of the SubGenius_
From: akif@sequent.com (Aki Fleshler)
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
Subject: Re: Musashi Question
Date: 14 Apr 92 18:03:48 GMT
Article-I.D.: sequent.1992Apr14.180348.15933
Organization: Sequent Computer Systems Inc.

In article <1992Apr13.234534.25504@uwm.edu> ninjam@csd4.csd.uwm.edu  writes:
>A white caucasion male showed up in Milwaukee within the past year.
>He says his name is Sabutai Musashi and that he is grandmaster of the
>"Shoga" style ninjitsu system.  

	OOOH! OOOH! I CAN'T RESIST!
	I'm sure I'm revealing my ignorance: I never heard of "Sabutai" 
	as a legit Japanese personal name. However ... :
	Assuming that the "u" in "Sabutai" is silent, this fellow's
	name is pretty close to "Shabb(a)tai Tsvi". Tsvi was a false
	prophet, self-proclaimed Messiah, and general all-around scoundrel
	who misled and corrupted the poor and vision-hungry Jews of
	Eastern Europe, the Balkans, and Turkey several hundred years
	ago... *without* ninjitsu.

-- 
Aki Fleshler                                  * akif@sequent.com
Sequent Computer Systems Inc.                 * (503) 578-4570
15450 SW Koll Parkway, RHE2-775               *
Beaverton OR 97006-6063                       *
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
From: barry@citr.uq.oz.au (Barry Kitson)
Subject: Re: Multiple attackers
Organization: Prentice Centre, University of Queensland
Date: Wed, 15 Apr 1992 23:27:36 GMT

poore@ds9.scri.fsu.edu (David Poore) writes:

>In article <barry.703293689@citr.uq.oz.au> barry@citr.uq.oz.au (Barry Kitson) writes:
>>tac@cs.brown.edu (Ted A. Camus) writes:
>>>  I agree with David Poore, you should deal with the strongest one
>>>  first.  You might as well get it over with, while you're fresh.  
>[Heeeey! My name in lights, I love it!!]
>>	You assume that you will have to fight all attackers (and
>>maybe that you will win :^) .  Why not run?  In order to get away,

>Well, I can't speak for Ted, but this is not my assumtion at all. I am
>assuming (perhaps incorrectly) that if I can drop the 'ringleader' the
>rest of the bunch might start to get cold feet.

	What makes you think you can drop the "ringleader"?  What if
you're wrong and end up on the ground?  Will the others be happy with
the success of their fearless leader and move off to let you rest
comfortably?  Or will they lay into you?

>>run at the weakest point, and if you are surrounded, that would
>>probably be the weakest person.  If you run, and string them out
>>behind you, then even if they are faster you will be more likely
>>to be able to take them one (or a few) at a time.  Besides, things
>>might improve after a little warming up :^) .

>Not likely for me. I am not really that fast a runner, and when I am old
>an fat, I sure wouldn't want to try this (esp. if faced by a pack o
>younguns). 

	If you can't run, you'll have to fight.  Then maybe you'll want
to take a chance on defeating the leader while giving up a few chances
to get away.  Good luck :^)

>Besides, psychologically, if you run, then aren't they going
>to be in predator mode and you in prey mode? 

	After you string them out a bit, turn back into the predator.
*SURPRISE* :^)

	Money or the box?

		Barry.

 _____________________________________________________________________
| Barry KITSON              | TRL of AOTC                   ||   \_() |
| Voice: +61 7 365 4469     | C/- CiTR                     //,____#_\ |
| Fax:   +61 7 365 4399     | The University of Queensland \|   __\   |
| email: b.kitson@trl.oz.au | St Lucia 4072 AUSTRALIA       \|  `     |
|_____ Proof of the above is left as an exercise for the reader. _____|

Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
From: fischer@netmbx.netmbx.de (Axel Fischer)
Subject: Re: multiple opponents; combat vs. self-defense
Organization: netmbx, Berlin, Germany
Date: Wed, 15 Apr 1992 13:29:06 GMT

In article <barry.703210860@citr.uq.oz.au> barry@citr.uq.oz.au (Barry Kitson) writes:
>tac@cs.brown.edu (Ted A. Camus) writes:
>>robinson@cogsci.Berkeley.EDU (Michael Robinson) writes :
>
>>  In many martial arts, it is true that against multiple opponents
>>  the strategy is to take them out as quickly as possible, in rapid
>>  succession.  This strategy is especially true for percussion-effect arts.

We (I do JiuJitsu) do such training almost every trainingssession.
One in the middle against 5 or 6 opponents how attack almost at once.

Our goal is it to look before the opponents strike who has the most 
dangerous weapons (knife, baseball-bat, ..) and take them out first.

Only very fast single stroke techniques. Our trainer says you might 
take a stroke with the hand or a kick but you have trouble recovering from
a knife :-)

-Axel
-- 
fischer@netmbx.de                                                   DoD #0228
CBR600F2 (street) - NS400R (track)
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
From: rtang@sunee.waterloo.edu (He who must not be Named.)
Subject: Re: Bruce flame
Keywords: request for proof/documentation....
Organization: University of Waterloo
Date: Mon, 13 Apr 1992 10:43:13 GMT

In article <1992Apr13.025331.11539@eng.umd.edu> doug@eng.umd.edu (Douglas N. Cohen) writes:
>	as i would be interested in where you get yours (beside the
>obvious plagerisms that have appeared under your post....)
>	and, what the **** is 'an advanced kick'?  this is much of a bull****
>term as ever i have seen.  even the most basic kick is 'advanced' and 
>even the most advanced kick is 'basic' ... ah!!! why do i bother!!! that 
>statement is so irritating..... 
Right ON!  In my oppinion the most 'advance kick' is a straight
front kick to someone chest, sending his chest meeting his back bone 
at Mach 10, and him to his maker!

Ray
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
From: jon@zeus.med.utah.edu (Jonathan Byrd)
Subject: Re: If these postings are a representative sample of the arts...
Organization: University of Utah
	<JON.92Apr15170812@zeus.med.utah.edu>
	<1992Apr16.001414.18162@leland.Stanford.EDU>
Date: 16 Apr 92 10:28:08

In article <1992Apr16.001414.18162@leland.Stanford.EDU> sworking@leland.Stanford.EDU (Scott Workinger) writes:

   In article <JON.92Apr15170812@zeus.med.utah.edu>, jon@zeus.med.utah.edu (Jonathan Byrd) writes:
   |>    You know, for a while there, I was seriously considering studying martial arts. 
   |>    Then I started reading this newsgroup.
   |> 
   |> you're right, of course.  i hope you get a chance to read alt.sex
   |> before you reach puberty.
   |> 
   |> ;-> ;-> ;-> ;-> ;-> ;-> ;-> ;-> ;-> ;-> ;-> ;-> ;-> ;-> ;-> ;-> ;->

   This is simply uncalled for, but it's not a lot worse than some of the
   other stuff that's been posted lately.   (I probably contributed to
   the problem by making statements that certain individuals interpreted
   as denigrating their arts.  Mea culpa.)

it is easy to stand well away from the fray, and take pot-shots at the
people who are struggling in the dirt, and genuinely trying to learn.

note for the hard-of-thinking:

the reference to alt.sex, a high-traffic, low signal-to-noise ratio
newsgroup, was not simply an insult.  it was intended to make a point:
anyone who accepts usenet in lieu of experience should not be taken
seriously.

--
jonathan byrd
jon@apollo.med.utah.edu
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
From: tac@cs.brown.edu (Ted A. Camus)
Subject: Re: Multiple attackers
Organization: Brown University Department of Computer Science
Date: Wed, 15 Apr 1992 01:09:26 GMT


 Barry and Mikel (et al) :

    Here's an example of what I'm talking about.  I'm not claiming that 
  striking arts don't have ways of dealing with multiple attackers; 
  I only intend to say that throwing people into each other is a sounder
  (theoretically ;-) approach.  (Other than running away, which needless
  to say is usually the best thing to do!)

  This example uses shihonage.  Nage is surrounded by two uke's, U & V.

   U_ N   V      Nage blends with right hand strike, grabs arm. 

    |N  V        Nage steps in to U's left (and away from V).  
   U             V closes in !

   N/ V          Nage goes under U's arm (and away from V), twisting U.
   U             V closes in some more!

   N-U*V         Nage performs shihonage, U is thrown into V.

  
  Now here is a (pathetically biased :) version of a bad way to do it:

   U_/F   V      Foo blocks right arm strike.

   U<-F  V       Foo counter-attacks.  V closes in !

   U  F<-V       Foo turns around, V hits Foo.


  This is only meant to illustrate the different approaches.
  In case 1, Nage is simultaneously :
   1) controlling U
   2) stepping away from V,  and finally
   3) breaking U's arm with shihonage while 
      throwing U *into* V (or at least into V's path).

  I claim that with a striking art, maybe you can simultaneously
  block and strike, but to simultaneously 1) block 2) strike 
  3) step away from other opponents and 4) use previous opponent 
  as a weapon vs. the next, is impossible !!


==========================================================
  Ted Camus                          Box 1910 CS Dept 
  tac@cs.brown.edu                   Brown University
  tac@browncs.BITNET                 Providence, RI 02912
From: sog@craycos.com (Steve Gombosi)
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
Subject: Re: Herbal Poultices
Date: 16 Apr 92 15:42:33 GMT
Organization: Cray Computer Corporation

In article <8257@sun13.scri.fsu.edu> poore@ds9.scri.fsu.edu (David Poore) writes:
>
>Herbal Poultices (I've seen Lauren use this term, I sure hope it isn't a
>Meikido copyright infringement for me to use it...Meikido Lawyers
>are a truely frightful thought!)
>
>Anyway, I know that many Chinese systems rely on such formulae to aide,
>and in some cases allow training to continue. These can be part of
>conditioning regimines, used to heal injuries, etc. 
>
>My question is, what sorts of things do YOUR systems use? I am
>especially interested in what sort of substances might be used in
>non-Chinese systems.

Chicken soup. Honest.
From: acharya@HYDRA.ROSE-HULMAN.EDU
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
Subject: Re: Fashions (was: Black Belt)
Date: 8 Apr 92 18:13:15 GMT
Article-I.D.: cs.1992Apr8.181315.14642
Reply-To: acharya@HYDRA.ROSE-HULMAN.EDU
Organization: Rose-Hulman Institute of Technology

In article <MARY.92Apr7191628@martinique.Cayman.COM>, mary@Cayman.COM (Mary Malmros) writes:
>
>   i though tkd people wore a gi (heh heh, a GI)
>
>DOBOK.  DOBOK DOBOK DOBOK.  So there.

now where have i heard that before? dobok...hmmm...dobok, dobok...dobok,dobok
dobok...dobokdobokdobokdobokdobokdobokdo...bokdobokdobokdo...bokdo?? 
bok-do...BUCK-DO!!!!

lets look at tae-kwon do shall we...tae-kwon-do...taek-won-do...take-ones-do?
TAKE-ONES-DOUGH!!!!

well? buck-do...take-ones-do...i rest my case...<dons flame resistant hakama and
awaits first attack wave...>


-m.a.
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
From: troy@intelhf.hf.intel.com (Troy Allison)
Subject: Re: Herbal Poultices
Organization: Development Tools Operation, Intel Corp., Hillsboro  OR
Date: Thu, 16 Apr 92 20:51:04 GMT

poore@ds9.scri.fsu.edu (David Poore) writes:


>Meikido copyright infringement for me to use it...Meikido Lawyers
>are a truely frightful thought!)

I thought all lawyers had at least a first Dan in Meikido, part of
the requirements for law school or something...   :)

Troy
-- 
=========================================================
It is easy to identify a begining martial-arts student:
s/he is the one practicing the most advanced technique
they know, while the advanced student practices the first
From: twcaps@tennyson.lbl.gov (Terry Chan)
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
Subject: Re: Posting guidelines
Date: 16 Apr 92 18:35:26 GMT
Article-I.D.: dog.22750
Reply-To: twchan@lbl.gov (Terry Chan)
Organization: Lawrence Berkeley Laboratory, Berkeley
NNTP-Posting-Host: 128.3.12.117

In article <sgfapINNln4@agate.berkeley.edu> Michael Robinson writes:

 +>The idea is this:  no one will be permitted to write declarative sentences 
 +>about any art unless they have personally trained in it for at least a
 +>month.
 +>Comments?

Aside from the issues of enforcement, censorship and the appropriateness
of the time cutoff (see below), I think that given how many people
study an art for long periods of time without truly understanding the
principles involved, I think it's rather unfair to just nail the
chronologically impaired.


Then David Poore in article <8235@sun13.scri.fsu.edu> writes
 
 +If we made it two months, then you couldn't post any such statements
 +about Aikido!?
 +
 +hehehe
 +
 +Sorry, I couldn't resist...

Bad David!  Bad!


Terry "What's T'ai Chi?" Chan
--
================================================================================
INTERNET:  twchan@lbl.gov              BITNET:  twchan@lbl.bitnet
  "I think it's stupid. We collect all these business cards, and it turns
                    out nobody wants them."
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
From: green_dragon
Subject: Re: Bruce Lee on...
Organization: Wudang
Date: Wed, 15 Apr 92 01:20:50 GMT

In article <12438@auspex-gw.auspex.com>, bae@Auspex.COM (Brian Ehrmantraut) writes:
|> In article <dd50498@pro-haven.cts.com>, warlock@pro-haven.cts.com (Tye Botting, SysAdmin) writes:
|> > In <12417@auspex-gw.auspex.com> bae@Auspex.COM (Brian Ehrmantraut) writes:
|> > 
|> > % In article <1992Apr10.110614.765@gacvx2.gac.edu>, karsten@nic.gac.edu (Karsten Hendrick) writes:
|> > % > Which martial artists do you consider to be exemplary fighters?
|> > % 	Jeff Cooper
|> >        ^^^^^^^^^^^^^
|> >         Is this the same Jeff Cooper that starred in _Circle of Iron_ with
|> >         David Carradine?!?  
|> 
|> 	No - I was referring to Col. Jeff Cooper.  He's never been in any
|> movies that I am aware of, though he may have done some training films.
|> 

Brief Note on Col. Cooper:

Colonel Cooper (He earned the rank in the Marine Corps.) runs a world famous 
program in various types of firearms training from his ranch in 
Gunsite, Arizona.  If you can afford it, it is reputed to be just about the 
best practical firearms training commercially available.  They say that a
surprising cross section of people go through the school, from mercenaries to 
housewives.  Colonel Cooper also writes an erudite and witty magazine column
which is both enjoyable and thought provoking.  I recommend it for those
who can read conservative political commentary without having a bloodpressure 
excursion.  (H--! Read it anyway.  You might learn something.)

A question:

In the 20th century, people who wish a thorough grounding in the martial
arts simply cannot afford to ignore firearms.   And yet, in this newsgroup, 
about all I see is discussion of the traditional ones that predated invention
of the musket.  Why is this true?  Nostalgia?     

Old Joke (This may be from the Colonel, himself):

	Question:  What's the first rule of gunfighting?

	Answer:  Have a gun.
From: psc@sei.cmu.edu (Peter Capell)
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
Subject: Karate (first source)
Date: 10 Apr 92 20:27:47 GMT


As per my original comments:

Date: Fri, 1 Jun 90 09:20:55 PDT
From: scheid@danzan.ebay.sun.com (David Scheid)
Message-Id: <9006011620.AA00989@danzan.EBay.Sun.COM>
To: martial-arts@dragon.cso.uiuc.edu
Subject: re: Kempo and Karate

Sarah writes:

>And yes, the original Kanji was for chinese boxing, but Master Funakoshi
>felt it no longer was a foreign art, that it had developed into a truly
>separate, cultural art, and so re-named it kara-te (empty hands).

At great insistence from the various Japanese ministers for cultural 
affairs who did not wish to acknowledge the Chinese or Okinawan heritage.

And let's not forget, that Funakoshi could not return to his homeland for
over 30 years (somethig like that). This made him basically a captive, 
although he lacked for nothing. 

I'm waiting for someone to rewrite the History of Karate development in
Japan, giving it a more "Western outlook" where things like "at the 
Emperor's behest" are identified as nothing less than a death sentence
if someone went against it. And, the various ministers were really
feudal lords over their Bureaus (ie. agriculture, defense, foreign affairs,
et.al.) with corresponding power.

What is at work is the propagandists. Karate is truly an Okinawan 
form & even the Japanese cannot change that by changing the Kanji.

(Just a little peeve on my part - nothing personal to anyone. It was
part of the nationalism of the times. Kind of like Hitler's ministers
changing the foreign words into German words. Radio = Fernhoerer (not in
use); television = Fernseher (current); telephone = Fernsprecher (current); 
auto = kraftwagen (not in use, although Lastwagen for truck is).)

Dave Scheid

(P.S. compliments to Sarah on her nice presentation).


Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
From: polinger@isis.cs.du.edu (patrisa olinger)
Subject: Inputs to this newsgroup
Organization: Nyx, Public Access Unix (sponsored by U. of Denver Math/CS dept.)
Disclaimer1: Nyx is a public access Unix system run by the University of
Disclaimer2: Denver for the Denver community.  The University has neither
Disclaimer3: control over nor responsibility for the opinions of users.
Date: Wed, 15 Apr 92 22:16:50 GMT

I am new to this system and have been reading some of the martial arts
commentaries....there do not seem to be many (if any) women who have any
opinions on martial arts.
I am in Colorado, and have been doing Jujitsu for the past 7 months...all
of these articles are pretty interesting, no offense to the men, but I
was wondering if there are any women out there who would like to chat with
me about this subject sometime??  Of course, others (men) are welcome to
respond as well.

Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
From: liu-edward@CS.YALE.EDU (Edward Liu)
Subject: Here's one for ya... (Was Re: 2 questions. Please read.)
Organization: Yoyodyne Propulsion Systems
Distribution: rec
Date: Sat, 11 Apr 1992 15:37:21 GMT

In <22592@dog.ee.lbl.gov>, jtchew@csa3.lbl.gov (JOSEPH T CHEW) writes:
>So what about those situations when you have to fight while not
>at your best?  Worth thinking about, and I'm not just talking
>about doing a jump spinning back kick in a street brawl to impress
>the girls without having stretched. :)  Some scenarios:
  [scenarios deleted]

   Here's one that just occurred to me, and which is going to get inserted
(someplace) into the Greatest Martial Arts Movie Ever Made (tm) screenplay (if
I ever get around to actually writing it...:-):

   You're on Rollerblades.  You get attacked by about six guys.  How do you
defend yourself?

   A couple of ideas came to me.  Knowledge of capoeria might come in handy --
in demos of it that I've seen, capoeria-ists are just as comfortable in a
handstand as they are on their feet (or at least the good ones are).  If you
happen not to be a capoeria expert, I would imagine that you would try to use
the speed that you can generate on the Rollerblades to your advantage.  Plus,
Rollerblades would come in really handy when you run away :-).

   Anybody have any other ideas/comments about this?
---
-- 
|  Edward C. Liu              "Not by wrath does one kill,        |
|  liu-edward@cs.yale.edu       but by laughter..."               |
|  P.O. Box 6007 Yale Station    -- F. Nietzsche,                 |
|  New Haven, CT  06520              _Thus Spoke Zarathustra      |