HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: Jack_Webb@mindlink.bc.ca (Jack Webb)
Subject: Re: The Christian Argument for Vegetarianism
Organization: MIND LINK! - British Columbia, Canada
Date: Fri, 25 Dec 1992 22:19:48 GMT

> Mark Bevan writes:
>
> Msg-ID: <0NRcwB1w165w@ersys.edmonton.ab.ca>
> Posted: Fri, 25 Dec 92 12:22:32 Org.  : Edmonton Remote Systems #3,
> Edmonton, AB, Canada
>
> Wow, now that was comedy at its best, My friends and I laugh for a hour
> on that, please do a follow-up!!
> Well, I'm taking my friend hunting tommorrow (I don't hunt.. I enjoy
> the outdoors, He hunts... he also enjoys the outdoors), I also like
> moose meat and deer meat (My friend so far this year has got 6 deer
> and 2 moose).
> BTW We are Christians (Not the bleeding heart liberal type):)
>
> Mark Bevan              mbevan@ersys.edmonton.ab.ca



Please don't listen to this man... he is from Edmonton alberta, canada... it
is a small city full of gun racks and rednecks (I should know, I used to live
there myself).

There are pockets of vegies in Edmonton, and pleasant Christians there, too,
... please don't judge them all by this man.

Merry Christmas, mark... remember that not all bleeding hearts are bad... how
much meat do you think Christ ate on a regular basis? (hypothetical question,
I don't want a response from you, you philistine!) ;)

I hope he doesn't come back to our forum again.

*j*
--
WE SAIL TONIGHT FOR SINGAPORE - WE'RE ALL AS MAD AS HATTERS HERE!!

*******************Jack_Webb@mindlink.bc.ca***********************
****VANCOUVER, BRITISH COLUMBIA, CANADA...HOME OF THE NEUROTIC****
Newsgroups: rec.food.veg
From: altar@beaufort.sfu.ca (Ted Wayn Altar)
Subject: Vegetarian Cats2: Nutritional Needs
Organization: Simon Fraser University, Burnaby, B.C., Canada
Date: Mon, 28 Dec 1992 18:44:13 GMT




E.  WHAT DO VEGETARIAN CATS NEED?

First, cats also need an exogenous source of the amino acid,
     TAURINE (2-aminoethanesulfonic acid)  There is no known
     practical source of taurine found in plants (apparently,
     some plants do have trace amounts) but it can be obtained in
     abundance from "lower" animals like clams or chemically
     synthesized.

Second, unlike dogs, cats need PREFORMED VITAMIN A.

Third, cats need a preformed source of ARACHIDONATE ACID which
     most other animals can adequately synthesize from linoleic
     acid.  The effeciency of cats is less than optimal.

Finally, some other less crucial nutritional concerns with a
     plant diet for cats include a direct source of niacin (other
     animals normally convert tryptophan into niacin (vitamin B).
     Nutritional yeast (not to be confused with brewers yeast).
     is an abundant source of niacin that one should feed to cats
     in any case (most cats really like it).  An supplements of
     B12, zinc, an ideal calcium to phosphorous ratio of 1.2-1.4
     to 1, a plant form of calciferol (so-called "vitamin" D),
     and some vitamin C (the efficiency of cats to produce their
     own is not always optimal).

The above is not intended as an exhaustive listing of the
nutritional needs of cats, but simply to indicate what an approved
vegetarian cat food would at the very minimum need to provide. 
Owners are not, therefore, advised to try to make up their own
preparations but used approved commercial products.


Newsgroups: rec.food.veg,sci.med.nutrition
From: kalin@cbnewsm.cb.att.com (andrew.j.kalinowitsch)
Subject: sea salt versus "table" salt
Organization: AT&T
Date: Wed, 30 Dec 1992 18:02:55 GMT
Followup-To: sci.med.nutrition


are there any health benefits derived from using
sea salt over regular table salt?

and what's so bad about table salt anyway?

[followups to sci.med.nutrition]
Newsgroups: rec.food.veg
From: chandy@marais.inria.fr (Chandra SHEKHAR)
Newsgroups: rec.food.veg
Subject: Re: Limited vegetarianism of India
Date: 21 Dec 92 10:29:11 GMT
Organization: INRIA, Sophia-Antipolis (Fr)

In article <shenoy.724867912@pv0260.vincent.iastate.edu>, shenoy@iastate.edu
(Shiva Shenoy) writes:
|> In <1992Dec20.081129.6411@abo.fi> abulsari@abo.fi (Abhay Bulsari VT)
|> writes:
|> 
|> >well. One  argument given  to me  was that  cows  would not  give milk
|> >before they fed  the calves. This  does change my stand, even if it is
|> >true, and I don't think that is true.
|> 
|> There is some truth to that especially in villages where a family owns a
|> few
|> heads of cattle. People do respect the animals even today. This is
|> obviously
|> not true in urban areas which are in a minority anyway. After giving birth,
|> the mother does produce an excessive amount of milk and there is a limit to
|> how much a calf can feed same as any human being. 

In 99.99 % of the cases, all male calves are killed soon after birth.
To persuade the cow to keep giving milk, the dead calf is stuffed
with straw and placed near its mother. I have seen this done in
some of the most orthodox Brahmin households in Southern India.
Can't say I am greatly impressed by the humanitarian values displayed
here ...

|> As far as changing food habits when they go abroad, a lot of it because of
|> the inavailability of vegetarian food. Your only choice is to cook it
|> yourself. People are only human. Try and come to Iowa sometime. They are
|> still 25 years behind in the times. This place is the leading pork
|> producer.
|> People associate vegetarianism with eating raw vegetables and bland salads.
|> 

Abhay's basic point is still true. Indian vegetarianism is a matter of
habit and compulsion, and not of conscious choice. Indians therefore do 
not deserve much credit it. Concern for the plight of animals is usually
just a post facto explanation, rather than a real motive for vegetarianism.


Chandy
Newsgroups: rec.food.veg
From: wheeler@super.org (Ferrell S. Wheeler)
Subject: UPC on Turkeys
Organization: Supercomputing Research Center (Bowie, MD)
Date: Wed, 30 Dec 1992 17:18:53 GMT


                      FOOD FOR THOUGHT
 
Treated with respect, domestic turkeys are friendly birds who
enjoy human companionship.  Like their wild relatives they are
avid foragers who thrive on grass and a healthful outdoor
life.  They are not suited to the harsh turkey confinement
systems in which 15,000 or more sensitive birds are forced to
sit and stand jammed together in filthy litter breathing
burning ammonia fumes and lung-destroying dust.  They develop
respiratory diseases, foot ulcers, breast blisters, and
ammonia burned eyes.  They are dosed with drugs, vaccines and
antibiotics to prop them up till marketing time.
 
These turkeys are bred and fed to become pathologically obese.
Their skeletons are so weak under their bloated muscles
("meat") that many birds collapse, unable to stand.  The
modern turkey muscle is undergoing degenerative changes
reflecting the birds' forced rapid growth and overblown body
weight (Turkey World, 1992).  Oxygen deprived and grossly
overburdened, many turkeys' hearts explode.  Consumers could
eat a diseased turkey or turkey part for dinner:  "Researchers
are looking at ways to keep afflicted birds alive long enough
to get them to market" (Associated Press 1991).
 
Turkeys are brutally debeaked.  As a result, they cannot eat
or preen properly.  Research has shown that the hot debeaking
blade cuts through the sensitive beak tissue causing lifelong
pain and suffering in the mutilated, disfigured bird.
 
Modern turkeys are so heavy and misshapen they must be
artificially inseminated to reproduce.  Obscenely, the males
are "milked" of their semen by phallus manipulating teams who
stick it in the upside down turkey hen's vagina with a
hypodermic syringe or the operator's breath pressure blown
through a tube.  The U.S. does not even provide humane
slaughter protective legislation for turkeys.  For more
information contact United Poultry Concerns, P.O. Box 59367,
Potomac, MD  20859 (301-948-2406).
 
                     + + + + + + + + + +
 
United Poultry Concerns addresses the treatment
of domestic fowl in food production, science,
education, entertainment, and human companionship
situations.


Newsgroups: rec.food.veg
From: young@clpd.kodak.com (Rich Young)
Subject: Re: Vitamin D from sunshine
Originator: young@plasma
Reply-To: young@clpd.kodak.com
Organization: Clinical Diagnostics Division, Eastman Kodak Company
Date: Sun, 3 Jan 93 16:32:38 GMT

In article <1993Jan3.064859.10918@spdcc.com> dyer@spdcc.com (Steve Dyer) writes:
>In article <1993Jan3.043954.1262@sarah.albany.edu> la1002@albnyvms.bitnet writes:
>>How much do Full Spectrum lights cost, Ted? And where can I buy
>>them? I have an apartment in the basement with only one tiny
>>window - it's HORRIBLE!
>
>Full spectrum lights do not produce significant amounts of UV; they do not
>cause sunburn (thankfully), and they're used by indoor gardeners to improve
>their plants--I think Ted is wrong here.  Unless you're a plant, I don't
>think this will address your problem.

	There ARE fluorescent lamps made specifically for UV emission which
	are sold in pet stores (and perhaps elsewhere) for the purpose of
	keeping lizards, many of which have the same vitamin D problem that
	afflicts humans.  An iguana without UV, for instance, will develop
	rickets.  I believe that these lamps are made with silica, not glass,
	envelopes so that the natural high-UV emission of the mercury arc
	can escape.  These lamps are not inexpensive, however.  Ask any
	reputable pet store, but be CERTAIN that they are the real McCoy!
	I've seen pet stores try to pawn off a standard "Gro-Lite" as UV-
	emitting and suitable for lizards.

	By the way, these "lizard lights" are NOT the standard deep purplish
	"blacklight" one might visualize from bars...they're actually more
	like a standard fluorescent lamp.


-Rich Young (These are not Kodak's opinions.)
From: indira+@cs.cmu.edu (Indira Subramanian)
Newsgroups: rec.food.veg
Subject: seeking info: cheddar cheese without rennet
Date: 27 Dec 92 05:00:22 GMT
Article-I.D.: cs.BzwJ8n.8rE.1
Distribution: usa
Organization: Electrical and Computer Engg., Carnegie Mellon

Hi!

I notice that packaged cheese such as Kraft specify "cheese culture"
as one of the ingredients. I am certain that cheese culture must be
an euphemism for rennet/rennin.

I am a lacto vegetarian and I have been eating mostly cheddar (Kraft "light 
naturals"). Unfortunately, I learnt about rennet only recently. Now, I simply 
can't get myself to eat cheese without being 100% certain that it uses a 
vegetarian type culture (not killed-animal based) and absolutely NOT rennet. 
The only animal foods I consume are milk and cheese.

Where can I find cheddar made from dairy milk without rennet? Are there any 
brands that I can look for?

I just started reading this bboard. I have already browsed the FAQ message.

Thanks a lot and New Year Greetings,
Indira (indira@cs.cmu.edu)
Electrical and Computer Engg.,
Carnegie Mellon, Pittsburgh, PA
===============================
Newsgroups: rec.food.veg
Subject: Re: VEGAN:  long haired gourmet goes nuts for NYE
From: stvnolan@oneb.almanac.bc.ca
Date: Sat, 02 Jan 93 23:55:30 PST
Organization: The Old Frog's Almanac, Nanaimo, B.C.

la1002@albnyvms.bitnet (Clover M.) writes:

> Firstly, I want to thank you for the recipe. even though I think you
> posted it to keep me from eating a non-vegetarian Jello - except Jello BRAND
> pudding IS vegetarian.  Only their famous Gelatine product is made
> with the gelatine. 
 
Oops!  *grin*  After discovering how gelatin is made, I never again looked 
at _anything_ bearing the name "Jello".  My mistake.
 
> Is there anything I can substitute for the nut milk? I don't have a
> working blender and don't know where I can BUY nut milk. 
> What is "grain coffee substitute"? I THINK I might know, but I'm not
> sure...
> And why is it 2 - 3 Tablespoons of agar?  How do I know how much to
> use? I have never used Agar before, you see...
 
Hmm.  I suppose you could try using a thick soymilk, and substitute honey 
for the rice syrup..  I've never considered it before.  If you do, try to 
use a vanilla flavoured soymilk with quite a lot of body..  The nut milks 
are very creamy.  I really do suggest picking up a small blender though; 
you'll find it's probably the single most-used vegetarian cooking 
instrument. :-)  Grain coffee substitute is any grain beverage such as Inka 
(cheapest), CafLib, Pero, Cafix, Pioneer, etc.  It's an instant coffee 
substitute made from soluble extracts of roasted cereal grains.  (Most of 
them taste better than they sound.. :-))  Regarding the agar:  You should 
use the lesser of the two quantities.  The larger amount is for using the 
custard as a pie filling.  I meant to add a note to that effect, but it was 
late, and I forgot.. Sorry!  And how does it taste when it's done?  
Absolutely wonderful!  It's a very thick, creamy sweet mocha flavoured 
pudding that harmonizes beautifully with the strawberry/almond garnish.  
It's well worth giving a shot at least once.  Just make sure that your agar 
is COMPLETELY dissolved, or you'll have thousands of tiny little gelatinous 
lumps in your otherwise perfect pudding.. Good luck!
 
 -Steve.

           stvnolan@oneb.almanac.bc.ca (Steve Nolan)
     The Old Frog's Almanac  (Home of The Almanac UNIX Users Group)    
(604) 245-3205 (v32)    <Public Access UseNet>    (604) 245-4366 (2400x4)
        Vancouver Island, British Columbia    Waffle XENIX 1.64  
Newsgroups: rec.food.veg
From: altar@beaufort.sfu.ca (Ted Wayn Altar)
Subject: Re: Lecithin
Organization: Simon Fraser University, Burnaby, B.C., Canada
Date: Mon, 28 Dec 1992 18:32:45 GMT

abulsari@abo.fi (Abhay Bulsari VT) writes:


>I find from the Animal free shopper of the Vegan Society that 
>Lecithin is a fatty substance found in nerve tissues, egg yolk,
>blood and other tissues. Mainly obtained commercially from
>soyabeans, peanuts and corn.

>Will someone (Shankar Bhattacharya or anyone else) tell us about how
>it is made ?

Hopefully, Shankar who is always informative will help us out.
Just to help provide more of a context for your query, the
following comes from Doris Sarjeant & Karen Evans' book,
THE TRUTH ABOUT FOOD ADDITIVES, 1980.

	Lecithin may be used in infant formula, bread, cream,
	milk (naming the flavour), relishes, processed and cream
	cheese, cocoa, ice cream, milk chocolate, mustard pickles
	sweet chocolate, sherbert, margarine, and unstandardized
	foods as an emulsifying, gelling, stabilizing and/or
	thickening agent; upon surfaces that come in contact with
	food as a releasing agent and in fats, oils, lard,
	monoglycerides, diglycerides, shortenings and some 
	unstandardized foods as a preservative.  It is a natural
	occurrence in almost all plant and animal tissue and is
	generally obtained commerically from soybean.  Lecithin
	is considered to be non-toxic.  Permitted for use in U.S.A.;
	A.U.C.

It can, however, be made from eggs, so one can't always be sure
that a vegan source was used, but presumably it is obtained
more cheaply from soybean and therefore this is the more frequently
used source.

					Happy Vegetarian New Year,
						ted
From: abulsari@abo.fi (Abhay Bulsari VT)
Newsgroups: rec.food.veg
Subject: Re: Nice cows and humane dairy
Date: 25 Dec 92 08:33:49 GMT
Organization: Abo Akademi University

In article <1hd5boINNpra@morrow.stanford.edu> andy@pangea.Stanford.EDU (Andy Michael USGS Guest) writes:

>Is it possible to have a humane dairy industry?  

Exploitation is not humane. 

I have met dairy cows
>that seemed quite well treated and content (and I respect the farmer in
>question).  

I have seen cows in monasteries in India where they are treated in a
very humane manner, except for the fact that they are kept primarily
for milk. 

Or is the industry intrinsically inhumane because of
>problems due to having too many male cows born?  Perhaps we could just
>put them all out to pasture.  There would certainly be fewer of them than
>there are meat cows currently.
>
>Andy

Abhay
Newsgroups: rec.food.veg
From: Rosemary Waigh <rwaigh@zooid.guild.org>
Subject: Re: Kosher slaughter (was Re: Medicine & the Mall)
Reply-To: rwaigh@zooid.UUCP (Rosemary Waigh)
Organization: The Zoo of Ids
Date: Wed, 23 Dec 1992 16:38:02 GMT


According to _Diet_for_a_new_America_, in Sweden the Orthodox Rabbis
have decided that animals may be stunned before slaughter.  Hopefully
someday rabbis in the rest of the world will follow suit (or better still,
everyone will become vegetarian :-) ).
From: booninvail@guvax.acc.georgetown.edu
Newsgroups: rec.food.veg
Subject: animal rights 101
Date: 22 Dec 92 16:13:16 GMT
Organization: Georgetown University

I am a visiting assistant professor in the philosophy department at 
Georgetown University, and I just finished teaching a course on ethics 
and animals.  The course was organized around a close reading of Tom 
Regan's Case for Animal Rights, supplemented by readings from the 
Regan/Singer anthology Animal Rights and Human Obligations and a 
special issue of the Monist on Animal rights.  Following Regan, the 
course was roughly divided into three units: (1) questions about what 
animals are like: what reasons do we have for thinking that they are 
conscious, have feelings, beliefs, desires, intentions, etc?  Was 
Descartes right that they are merely complex mechanisms?  What, if 
anything, about their mental life is implied by the theory of natural 
selection? (2) questions about moral theory: what are the merits of 
utilitarian and non-utiltarian theories, and what do they imply about 
the moral status of animals? (3) questions about applying moral theory 
to particular issues: vegetarianism, scientifc experimentation, 
endangered species.  This was the first time I taught such a course, 
and since I never had a chance to study this stuff while I was an 
undergraduate or graduate student, I sort of had to wing it.

So: I would like to hear from people who have taken or taught such 
courses.  I'd be especially interested in hearing about texts that 
were used, specific topics that were covered, what seemed to work and 
what didn't, whether the students seemed to enjoy the course and 
benefit from it, what sort of students tended to take the class, and 
anything else that might be of use in trying to improve the course for 
next time.

This seems to me an important issue: there is a tremendous incentive 
for professors to teach the material that they were taught in graduate 
school.  It's just a lot easier than learning something new.  But the 
result is that since the animal rights literature is not often taught 
in graduate school, it is not often taught to undergraduates either, 
and this just perpetuates the cycle.  But the material is important 
and I think should be taught.  So I would find it both helpful and 
reassuring to hear from others who have been involved in such courses.

Thanks,

David Boonin-Vail
Dept. of Philosophy
Georgetown University
 
Newsgroups: rec.food.veg
From: Jack_Webb@mindlink.bc.ca (Jack Webb)
Subject: Re: Gay cats? *Great*! (was "vegetarian cats2...", I think)
Organization: MIND LINK! - British Columbia, Canada
Date: Thu, 31 Dec 1992 02:08:22 GMT

> 11jsutton@gallua.gallaudet.edu writes:
>
> Msg-ID: <1992Dec30.182657.1@gallua.gallaudet.edu>
> Posted: Wed, 30 Dec 1992 23:26:5
>
> Org.  : Gallaudet University
>
> On Dec 30 George B. Clark said:
>
> >No cat with any self respect would accept a vegetarian diet. Without
> >meat, a cat would soon become an impotent, gay, wimp, unable to
>                                             ^^^
> >stand tall among his neighborhood peers who hunt birds, mice, and
> >squirrels for their meals.
>
> Eating vegetarian food causes a cat to become gay?  Wonderful!  This
> is the best news I've heard in a *long* time!  I mean for years now
> I've been telling friends and strangers alike that they should
> spay/neuter their pet cat to help stop the problem of unwanted
> kittens being born, but now it seems there's no need to pay for an
> operation, if vegetarian food will in fact make a cat turn gay!  Now
> all we have to do is get pet owners everywhere to switch to veggie
> fare for their cats, and soon there'll be no more kittens being put
> to sleep because no one wants them.  This is birth control made easy!
> Someone write and tell all the papers about this!
>
> ;-)     ;-)
>
> --Jennifer Sutton (11jsutton@gallua.bitnet)


heh heh heh.... i like it :)
*j*  :)

--
WE SAIL TONIGHT FOR SINGAPORE - WE'RE ALL AS MAD AS HATTERS HERE!!

*******************Jack_Webb@mindlink.bc.ca***********************
****VANCOUVER, BRITISH COLUMBIA, CANADA...HOME OF THE NEUROTIC****
Newsgroups: rec.food.veg
From: altar@beaufort.sfu.ca (Ted Wayn Altar)
Subject: Re: Vegetarian Cats2: Final Word
Organization: Simon Fraser University, Burnaby, B.C., Canada
Date: Wed, 30 Dec 1992 18:42:05 GMT

georgec@eng.umd.edu (George B. Clark) writes:


>No cat with any self respect would accept a vegetarian diet. Without
>meat, a cat would soon become an impotent, gay, wimp, unable to
>stand tall among his neighborhood peers who hunt birds, mice, and
>squirrels for their meals. 

My cat, zoe, took deep offense to this vilification of her
furry-personhood.  She wanted me to tell you that your descriptors
apply more to humans than to cats.  She also is wondering if you
are having second thoughts about being a vegetarian  ;-)  :-)  :-)

				Happy Vegetarian New Year
					ted and zoe
I
Newsgroups: rec.food.veg
From: tomek@ufcc.ufl.edu (Tomasz Mazur)
Subject: Re: Stuffing Mushrooms .... HELP!
Followup-To: rec.food.veg
Organization: University of Florida
Date: Thu, 31 Dec 92 19:15:19 GMT

In article <1992Dec31.154004.2086@hou.amoco.com>, zkym02@hou.amoco.com
(Keerthi Y. McIntosh) wrote:
> 
> HELP!  I am having a New Years Eve Party and I am planning to serve stuffed mushrooms.
> I bought the big mushrooms, so that 2 per person would go a long way.  But now I am
> worried they will not cook through.  I am thinking about boiling them first... 

    Don't worry, they'll be fine *without* boiling them.  You just might
have to bake them longer.  I use a similar recepie and they usually take
20-25 min. to bake (they're ready when soft but not too soft-poke'em with a
fork to check).
 
> My recipe is as follows:
> 
> 40 Mushrooms Caps washed and peeled (peeled only if I have time)
> A few stems chopped finely

    I think they would be better if you use *all* of the stems.

> Pre-heat oven to 350 degrees.Fry onions, garlic and mushroom stems in olive oil until 
> soft but not brown.  Add seasonings and bread crumbs and some parmesan.  Warm thru. 

    Don't let them get too soft (they will bake more later); also, you
don't have to worm the stuffing up.

> Stuff mushrooms with bread crumb mixture and place on a greased cookie sheet.  
> Sprinkle parmesan cheese on top of mushrooms.  Bake mushrooms 10-15 minute or until 
> mushrooms are soft thru.  If parmesan get brown to fast, cover with foil and continue 
> baking.

    It'll probably take 25 min. or more to bake them. 

    Good luck!       

> Keerthi

   Tomek   tomek@ufcc.ufl.edu
Newsgroups: rec.food.veg