Newsgroups: can.politics,soc.culture.canada
From: robinson@mdivax1.uucp (Jim Robinson)
Subject: Re: NDP "communism?" (was Re: A vote for Reform...)
Followup-To: can.politics,soc.culture.canada
Reply-To: robinson@mdd.comm.mot.com (Jim Robinson)
Organization: Motorola - Mobile Data Division; Richmond, BC
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1 PL8]
Date: 21 Jan 93 22:31:33 GMT

John G. Spragge (SPRAGGEJ@QUCDN.QueensU.CA) wrote:
>In article <1993Jan19.174121.4480@mdivax1.uucp>, robinson@mdivax1.uucp (Jim
>Robinson) says:

>>The local Chamber of Commerce and the local small business persons assoc
>>(the name escapes me) are both on record as having *major* problems with
>>Harcourt's legislation. It seems to me that these organizations should be
>>representative of small and medium businesses.  So, one may argue whether
>>they are justified in being upset w/ this legislation, but upset (and
>>alienated) they nonetheless are. And, John, you have to admit that you are
>>not an average small business capitalist by any stretch of the
>>imagination.`

>Business organisations represent their members; nobody else. The
>statement "the Chamber of Commerce says X, so business feels..."
>assumes that all businesses belong to the chamber. Since not all
>businesses do, you can't make such a statement. And your "should"
>makes no sense at all. Why "should" the chamber of commerce
>represent me? I choose not to have them represent me; they
>(quite possibly) would choose not to represent my views.

>Unless you have a statistically valid survey of the attitudes of
>entrepreneurs, I have no intention of agreeing with your definition
>of me as untypical. 

Which is exactly my disagreement with you implying that because you think
that the NDP's labour legislation is positive, most small and medium
business people think likewise. Indeed, I could also ask if you have a
statistically valid survey of the attitudes of entrepreneurs that supports
your contention that only a small minority of squeaky wheels opposes the
NDP's labour legislation.

>I believe the real clash lies between people
>whose business exists as a vehicle for their craft, and those
>whose business exists to manipulate money and property. 

I agree that this could be true. However, the family that runs the store on
the corner of my street, for example, are not in the business because they
enjoy selling grocery odds & ends to people - they are in business to make
money & a living. I suspect (sorry, no statistically valid surveys
available to back this up) most people who run a business do it "for the
money", not as a vehicle for their craft - unless your definition of craft
is much wider than mine. Let's face it, the people that run a corner 7/11,
motel, dental practice, hot dog stand, wig store, plumbing co, etc do not
do it because they think of it as a life's calling; and, by my reckoning,
these people are the majority by far.

>When I
>talk to my fellow craft-business people, the gripes I hear do
>not involve unions; they involve speculators who drive rents up
>(and make lousy landlords); banks which give free rides to massive
>scale bankrupts while applying the thumbscrews to small businesses,
>and things of a like nature.

I'm sure the above bothers non-craft business people as well.

>>Just out of curiousity, do you support doing away with the secret ballot
>>that was used for union certification purposes? This was one of Harcourt's

>Automatic certification exists in Ontario. It seems to me a waste
>of money to run a vote when almost 50% of the possible voters have
>already committed themselves to vote for one side.

What price democracy? At any rate, with this line of reasoning one could
argue that we don't need elections as long Mr Gallup is in business.  As
well, for someone that earlier on was so adamant about not wanting to be
represented by the Chamber of Commerce, you certainly seem terribly
cavalier about not even letting *all* workers have a formal say in who, if
anyone, is going to represent them. What in the world is so terrible with
letting these people reflect upon their decision and then casting a secret
ballot?
-- 
Jim Robinson
robinson@mdd.comm.mot.com
{ubc-cs!van-bc,uunet}!mdivax1!robinson