HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: thornto@next2god.heart.rri.uwo.ca (Mike Thornton)
Subject: Re: Cyling and Doping
Organization: University of Western Ontario
Date: Mon, 14 Dec 1992 19:58:10 GMT
Keywords: Drugs

In article <1992Dec14.151644.13814@cbnews.cb.att.com>  
ampe@cbnews.cb.att.com (john.e.ampe) writes:
> In article <1992Dec14.141023.14742@oakhill.sps.mot.com>  
mack@oakhill.sps.mot.com (Gregg Mack ( Sun )) writes:
> ><K3018E9@ALIJKU11.BITNET> writes:
> >
> >>- What do you know about doping?
> >>- What do the pros take?
> >>- Do you take anything?
> >
> >>Steve.
> >
> >What kind of BULLSHIT is this?  This is no place for discussions on
> >crap like this.
> >
> >(Just my $0.02 worth.)

Good posting John now would you like to join us in the real world of high
performance cycling.

To answer the original posting, since doping is a part of racing and 
should therefore be included in the racing news group. 

It has been my experience and obsevation (totally my own, and I'm not
speaking for others) that a great many racers will take anything and
everything to help them perform better. I believe that there is a 
statistic that says that no Tour de France winner has ever lived past the
age of 57. This not to say that drugs are taken by all winners but there
is something to it.

Riders will take stimulants which include caffine and ginsing extracts to
things like decongestants containing phenylephrine and caffine. Of course
some take amphetamines which is the big stimulant. Not only do these cause
vasodilation and inrease heart rate but they also spare glucose in favour  
of high energy fats.
Some riders also believe that pain tolerence is increased also (I don't
know,that though).

Then there are the regeneratives as I call them, steroids. These help in
recuperation, strength increases, inrease in RBC's and oxygen retention 
(higher affinity). This one is well publicized.

Also there are funny things as I call them like EPO which gives blood the  
viscosity of sand and kills 26 yearold cyclist by inducing heart failure.

If you would like to get on the altruistic band wagon and bash me go right
ahead. But let me tell you this, I went to Europe to race when I was 15-20
and there I raced amature classics as well as pro-ams and I can tell you
that there are all kinds of guys looking very strange after races. Also my
coach who road in 8 world championships for an eastern european country  
told of me plenty of doping stories.

As for me doping I can only be honest and say that I did take aspirin to
help ease the pain of racing for 5 days straight and I did take dristan
to let me breath given my terrible allergies. Those are banned substances
by the UCI. I don't think that makes me cheater just someone who loved 
cycling. But of course that's just my opinion. Others I know have gone 
much further and I don't try to judge them all great performances are
deserving of respect and until you're in the position its hard to judge.

Responses and disscussion are welcome.

Michael M. Thornton

Heart Valve Lab : Robarts Research Inst
University of Western Ontario
London, Ontario, Canada

 "I hate quotations"
        -Ralph Waldo Emerson
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.racing
From: tthiel@cs.uiuc.edu (Terry Thiel)
Subject: Re: Dave Harvey Speaks Out on Drafting!
Organization: University of Illinois, Dept. of Comp. Sci., Urbana, IL
Date: Wed, 16 Dec 1992 22:18:47 GMT

kcary@pepvax.pepperdine.edu writes:
>>Personal to Kim:
>>I'm not wearing pink panties under my Pearl Izumis. How about you?
>OK, Terry Thiel and Thomas Kuenich, I give, I did laugh at pseudo-dave's
>humor. I'll even admit that he/she may have used these phrases in the same
>letter intentionally. 

Coolness.
-Terry
From: fleurant@hri.com (P.Fleurant)
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.racing
Subject: Re: Rudy Dhaenens.
Date: 18 Dec 92 14:51:16 GMT
Organization: Horizon Research, Inc.

In article <BzFKK4.JnF@news.cso.uiuc.edu>, jly33321@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (John L.Yoon ) writes:
> 
> >In article <BzAwF4.MFA@sunlab1.bath.ac.uk> ccsdhd@sunlab1.bath.ac.uk (Dennis Davis) writes:
> 
> >>"Rudy Dhaenens, the Belgian who won the world professional road race
> >> title in 1990, has retired from competition at the age of 31 because
> >> of a heart problem."
> 
> too bad... I'll miss him.  When I think of Dhaenens, I don't think of 
> the professional road race champ, 
I think of the pro road race champs in Japan, when the real hero of 
that race, his then team-mate (I think it was Dirk De Wolf) who 
just cramped up in the last meters when Rudy stole it!! The 2 of them were
away for the last ~2 laps.

Dhaenens didn't do much since then as I recall.

I also think of Dag-Otto Lauritzen (then 7-eleven) riding into the
same Dirk De Wolf and dropping his chain! 

-----------
P.Fleurant
From: gnome@pd.org (Mike Mitten)
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.racing
Subject: Re: Fozen water bottles
Date: 11 Dec 92 18:15:05 GMT
Organization: The Laughing Gnome Software Farm, Atlanta, GA, USA
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1 PL6]

Jobst Brandt (jbrandt@hplred.HPL.HP.COM) wrote:
>[...]  Many bikers don't know what to do at an intersection without a
>bottle.  Like man, you've gotta be doin' something with all those car
>drivers staring at your Day-Glo stuff at the traffic light.

I thought that's what track-standing was for.  :-)

  -Mike

Mike Mitten - gnome@pd.org - ...!emory!pd.org!gnome - AMA#675197 - DoD#522
Irony is the spice of life.     '90 Bianchi Backstreet  '82 Suzuki GS850GL
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.racing
From: marquis@netcom.com (Roger Marquis)
Subject: Re: USCF 1993 Categorization Guidelines (cat.2 -> 1)
Organization: Netcom 
Date: Thu, 17 Dec 1992 04:44:28 GMT

In article <1992Dec16.094553.18147@CSD-NewsHost.Stanford.EDU> les@sail.stanford.edu (Les Earnest) writes:
>The top 200 men and 120 women on points at the end of the season,
>from the National Ranking System, are Category 1 for the next season,
>along with National Team riders.  All Category 1 riders who fail to
>finish in top 200 men or 120 women will be automatically downgraded
>one category.
>Les Earnest           Phone:  415 941-3984    Fax: 415 941-3934

I spoke with John Tarbert this morning and he did confirm exactly what
Les has outlined.  His rational for the 200 rider cat.1 limit was that
it would eliminate the qualifications rounds at Nationals and also
make cat.1/open a viable category.  

Given that this rule is scheduled to go into effect at the _end_ of
1993, and the next USCF voting meeting is in September, I think we all 
have some time to comment to the USCF. (I did make the following concerns 
known, to John Tarbert at least)

If you want your opinion to be heard next September I recommend
writing to the editors of VeloNews and Cycling USA.  My concerns with 
the new rule are:

* Is the previous year's performance a valid criteria for selecting
  cat.1 status?  After all, a lot can happen in 6 to 12 months.

* Do we want to remove the incentive and prestige of cat.1 status for
  a large number of riders?  As a coach I don't think we do.

* Will there be enough pros and cat.1s to make the cat.1/pro or 'open' 
  category viable?  I personally don't think we have enough cat.1/pro
  riders _currently_ to hold many of these races.

* Do we want to eliminate the incentive of 'category 1 status' and a
  trip to Nationals for _hundreds_ of riders?  

* While the National's qualification process (by elimination races)
  has drawn a fair share of criticism (mostly from promoters) is this
  (limiting cat.1 status) a good way of addressing these criticisms?
  We could limit Nationals eligibility in other ways, without 
  restricting the cat.1 ranks.

* Will there be enough (of the 200) cat.1s who will actually travel to 
  nationals to hold a decent race?

* Does your region need a viable category 1?  Here in Nor Cal we could 
  use another 2 categories to reduce our excessive field sizes.

>Results in competitions outside of the U.S. will not count towards upgrading
>from 2 to 1.

This really doesn't make a lot of sense either.  

Opinions?
Roger Marquis (marquis@netcom.com, USCF# L0006570)
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.racing
From: tomk@netcom.com (Thomas H. Kunich)
Subject: Re: Dave Harvey Speaks Out on Nipple Rash
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services (408 241-9760 guest)
Date: Tue, 15 Dec 1992 02:18:30 GMT

In article <9212150046.AA07451@pepvax.pepperdine.edu> kcary@pepvax.pepperdine.edu writes:

>come on harvey sympathizers, write us a few lines about the benefits
>supporting an obscene caller.

Does the phrase, "Get a life," sound _real_ familiar to you? When you
find it see if it doesn't have the faintest sense of humor in it.

Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.racing
From: tommy@hilbert.att.com (Tom Reingold)
Subject: Re: Cyling and Doping
Reply-To: tommy@boole.att.com
Organization: AT&T Bell Labs, Holmdel, NJ, USA
Date: Tue, 15 Dec 1992 21:04:59 GMT
Keywords: Drugs

To paraphrase Dan Mocsny, the only way of getting athletes to stop
taking drugs is to stop rewarding them for winning.
-- 
Tom Reingold
AT&T Bell Labs, Holmdel, NJ
tommy@boole.att.com or att!boole!tommy
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.racing
From: djconnel@leland.Stanford.EDU (Daniel Connelly)
Subject: Re: Thermodynamics
Organization: DSG, Stanford University, CA 94305, USA
Date: Tue, 15 Dec 92 21:49:13 GMT

In article <17837@pitt.UUCP> wjtomer@cs.pitt.edu (Bill Tomer) writes:
>Many netters would do well to pick up any introductory book on 
>thermodynamics versus discussing points on cooling (and heating) 
>of water on the network.  

I am interested in this.  I consider myself familiar with introductory
thermo and yet the analysis isn't clear to me as the skin and the
ambient are at different temperatures.  This is a transport problem
and I guess I am not familiar with the relevent equation.

Thanks,
Dan


-- 
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.racing
From: "Michael Smith" <p00004@psilink.com>
Subject: Re: Dave Harvey Speaks Out on Nipple Rash
Organization: Performance Systems Int'l
Date: Tue, 15 Dec 1992 21:15:03 GMT
X-Mailer: PSILink-DOS (3.3)

>DATE:   14 Dec 1992 18:45:13 -0600
>FROM:   kcary@pepvax.pepperdine.edu

[material deleted]

>However, anyone who supports the guy or
>gal playing harvey might want to re-think the difference between a joke and
>fraud; come on harvey sympathizers, write us a few lines about the benefits
>supporting an obscene caller.
[....]
>One does not have to be clever at all to beat the SMTP system the way
>pseudo-harvey does. No coding involved.
[....]
> Probably a recent teenager, and judging from the
>language/topics, one who is uncertain in gender identity
[....]
>Kim Cary, GSEP Systems Support, Pepperdine University
>

Whew! Well, here's one Harvey fan responding. 

Harvey is a titanic figure in the tradition of Cu Chulainn, Paul Bunyan, 
Mike Fink (King of the Keelboaters), Herakles, Orlando Furioso, and all 
the other anarchic, shape-shifting berserkers of popular legend (I am 
not referring here to domesticated, Christianized, law-abiding epigoni 
like Beowulf). Folkloric motifs of immemorial antiquity recur with 
gratifying frequency in the Harvey corpus; see, for example, the PhD 
thesis pseudonymously submitted in the name of Jobst Brandt to the 
University of Gottingen, "Totem und Substrat im Harveyepos", which in 
spite of its suspect provenance contains much acute analysis of the 
shamanistic and totemistic elements in the developing Harvey legend, and 
the penetrating essay, "Cycl/ops: Deconstructing the Preternatural in 
Homer and Harvey," by Timmy O'Danaos and Donna Ferentes, in the fall 
issue of _Velodrone_, a new quarterly critical journal devoted to 
bicycle literature (in fact, I believe it's published right there at 
Pepperdine University).   

Hope this helps.


--Michael Smith

Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.racing
From: tomk@netcom.com (Thomas H. Kunich)
Subject: Re: Rudy Dhaenens.
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services (408 241-9760 guest)
Date: Tue, 15 Dec 1992 21:42:56 GMT

In article <BzAwF4.MFA@sunlab1.bath.ac.uk> ccsdhd@sunlab1.bath.ac.uk (Dennis Davis) writes:

>"Rudy Dhaenens, the Belgian who won the world professional road race
> title in 1990, has retired from competition at the age of 31 because
> of a heart problem."

I will miss Rudy if for no other reason than I always wondered how to
pronounce his name. :-)

Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.racing
From: zstern@adobe.com (Zalman Stern)
Subject: Re: Cyling and Doping
Organization: Adobe Systems Incorporated
Date: Wed, 16 Dec 1992 03:10:02 GMT

In article <1992Dec15.163017.21766@julian.uwo.ca>  
thornto@next2god.heart.rri.uwo.ca (Mike Thornton) writes:
> 
> >  I don't know offhand what Dristan contains 
> 
> NO kidding you don't know what it contains but caffine (a good sized dose)
> and phenylephrine are two ingredients (one is a limited substance the
> other banned).
> 
> 

Many (most?) apsirin tablets contain caffeine as well. What is a "limited"  
substance? What is the limit for caffeine? 
--
Zalman Stern		   zalman@adobe.com		    (415) 962 3824
Adobe Systems, 1585 Charleston Rd., POB 7900, Mountain View, CA 94039-7900
  "Yeah. Ask 'em if they'll upgrade my shifters too." Bill Watterson
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.racing
From: stevec@stimpy.water.ca.gov (Steve Croft)
Subject: Re: Cold Weather hydration (was: Re: Frozen water bottles)
Organization: California Department of Water Resources
Date: Tue, 15 Dec 1992 15:14:11 GMT

A recent ski film focused on water loss during skiing.  It mentioned that
you can dehydrate at a rate equivalent to jogging in the desert on a
100-degree day.

My own personal experience is that on cold days I always seem to be going
to the water bottle to keep my throat dry.

None of this is scientific; I'd appreciate hearing about studies on the
subject (jes' curious, y'understand!)

steve
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.racing
From: bobk@netcom.com (Bob Knight)
Subject: Alto Velo
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services  (408 241-9760 guest) 
Distribution: ba
Date: Thu, 17 Dec 1992 01:58:33 GMT

I have just joined a new bike club, Alto Velo.

I noticed on the application their was an entry
for your net address.  Are their really Alto Velo
netters out there?

I attended the masters team meeting at Raster Graphics.
Someone suggested we pick some races and try and get
a good number av's to show up.

I am planning on doing the Paterson road race at the
end of Jan (an early bird).  Has anyone raced this before?

This is my first year as a licensed racer.
Anybody have any bay area road race favorites?
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.racing
Subject: racing
From: F.Brown@massey.ac.nz (F.J. Brown)
Date: Wed, 16 Dec 92 20:45:15 GMT
Organization: Massey University, Palmerston North, New Zealand
Summary: Russians in NZ
X-Reader: NETNEWS/PC Version 2c

Dear netters,

Jonathon Dod writes: (re Russian - Kazakhstan - top amateurs and their
recent exploitsa in Australia and New Zealand)

>some riders in New Zealand recently for the NZ Post Cycling Classic.

>On one leg a Russian rider punctured and upon trying to fit a 'standard'
>wheel on as a replacement found it didn't fit his Russian bike (apparently
>this wasn't just a problem of hub width or such like).  And the latest issue

Gary Buys from Pedal Pushers, the bike shop that sponsors me, was neutral
support mechanic on the Commonwealth bank Tour in Australia directly before 
the NZPost Tour.   Amongst other stories he told me that one of the
Russians was riding a bike with an ancient 5-speed set-up, he thought
it was the very first Shimano 105 (this is a very knowledgeable guy -
previously TdF mechanic).   He punctured and it took them about 5 minutes
to spread the guy's dropouts and force a standard wheel in, upon which
the guy soloed back up to the bunch.
   
>of Cycling Magazine NZ says that some Russian riders were still using cleats
>and straps and that their tubulars were cheap jobs made from the same rubber
>used for Lada tyres.

I think the Lada tyre-rubber might be a bit of an urban legend, but, yes,
they were horrific tyres, heavy and rough.   One of the guys in our
training group acquired one, and we now carry it on our tandem, which
has Sun Chinook 48-hole clincher rims, as an emergency spare.   Stretch
it right over the top and away you go.   Yes, we have had to use it (50 km 
home), yes, it was wide and heavy enough to be successful, and no, this
is not an urban legend.

>Any comments 

We had a good look at the Russian bikes when they came through Palmerston
North.   They were mostly Colnagos, lovely frames but very old and battle-
scarred, perhaps remnants from the Soviet days.   All showed lots of
dents and scratches.

Gary's other comment was that the Russians were constantly on the scrounge
trying to buy discarded parts, tyres to mend, rims that were being tossed,
anything they could lay their hands on.

Cheers,

Frith

-- 
==============================================================================
Frith Brown                           E-mail:  F.Brown@massey.ac.nz
Department of Plant Science Level 2   Phone:   +64 06 356 9099 ext. 8800
Massey University                     Fax:     +64 06 350 5614
Palmerston North                      
New Zealand                :-) Ride the bike, ride the bike, ride the bike ;-)
==============================================================================
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.racing
From: curt@mcm.hp.com (Curt Simkins)
Subject: Re: 1992 World MTB Championships on TV
Organization: HP Cardiology Business Unit -  McMinville OR
Date: Tue, 15 Dec 1992 15:09:50 GMT

In article <vk+vHk#9db@atlantis.psu.edu>, burkins@green.crayola.cs.psu.edu (Chad T Burkins) writes:
|> paynter@bnr.ca (Stuart Paynter) writes:
|> : 
|> : The 1992 World MTB championships is going to be aired on TV
|> : this Thursday evening on the Canadian sports channel TSN.  For
|> : those of us who get TSN, it will be on:
|> : 
|> :                  Thursday, December 17
|> :                  8:00 pm EST
|> 
|> 	Does anyone know if this will be aired in the States ?  I just
|> took a quick look in a TV guide, but couldn't find anything on ESPN.
|> However, my guide doesn't have a specific sports section, so I couldn't
|> research it very thouroughly.  Any help would be appreciated.
|> Ride on........
|> -- 
|> Chad Burkins           |Life is short,     ---   __ o    __~o    __ o
|> -----------------------|    ride like    ----    _`\<,   _`\<,   _`\<,
|> ctb103@psuvm.psu.edu   |      the wind.    ---  ( )/( ) ( )/( ) ( )/( )
|> burkins@crayola.cs.psu.edu |----------------------------------------------
|> 
|>  
|> 
|> 
   This has been shown once in the US already (September I beleive)...
   Maybe keep your eye on the TV schedule in Velo-News in case it
   is repeated...
 
   Curt
From: bhilden@bigriver.Eng.Sun.COM (Bruce Hildenbrand)
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.racing
Subject: Re: Cyling and Doping
Date: 17 Dec 1992 19:40:47 GMT
Organization: Sun
NNTP-Posting-Host: bigriver

In article <cfar1yq@lynx.unm.edu> warsa@polaris.unm.edu (j warsa) writes:
>les@cs.stanford.edu, in rec.bicycles.racing, writes: 
>
>Janelle Parks (some of you may remember her - I'd guess Les would) tested 
>at 14.5 mcg/ml urine in 1989 during the PostGiro in Norway, an eight day 
>women's stage race held in late May. She had taken two UPTime tablets 
>(containing 90 mg caffeine each) and two cups of coffee prior to the stage 
>at 10:00 a.m. Her urine sample was taken at about 4:30 p.m. after she won 
>the last stage (6th overall). She got suspended and was removed from the 
>Len Pettyjohn led Lowery's team. Since she was my girlfriend at the time, 
>I know that she took it pretty hard especially since it was her living. 
>

Gosh, I must be naive but, what was she taking two UPtime tablets for.
Since these things are loaded with caffeine, it probably wasn't because
she had a headache!  This sounds to me like a clear case of caffeine
abuse and she tested positive because of it.

Sorry to be so hard on this drug issue, but I am having a difficult
time here seeing the injustice of this particular situation.

Bruce
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.racing
From: thornto@next2god.heart.rri.uwo.ca (Mike Thornton)
Subject: Who is Dave Harvey
Organization: University of Western Ontario
Distribution: usa
Date: Wed, 16 Dec 1992 18:25:44 GMT
Keywords: Dave  Harvey


I know this maybe a stupid question but here it is anyway;

Who is Dave Harvey?

Is he someone I should know from racing? And is the lemond in his e-mail 
address a reference to Greg? 

It does sounds though as if he would be a good candidate for a racing team
which one of my old teammates was thinking of starting. The team was
going to be called 'NBNP' ...No Brains, No Pain Racing team. The idea
was to have a team of riders who did massive training and would just
ride at the front all out and attempt 80 km breaks continually.

Just curious;

Mike Thornton
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.racing,rec.bicycles.marketplace
From: freytag@seas.gwu.edu (Richard Freytag)
Subject: Re: LOOK mtb pedal/shoe system
Organization: George Washington University
Date: Fri, 18 Dec 1992 10:33:58 GMT
From: kcary@pepvax.pepperdine.edu
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.racing
Subject: Re: Dave Harvey Speaks Out on Nipple Rash
Date: 14 Dec 1992 18:45:13 -0600
Organization: UTexas Mail-to-News Gateway
NNTP-Posting-Host: cs.utexas.edu

In article <28.1992.LID@lemond.harvey.com>, you [pseudonymously] write:
>I am not Mike Johnston! If I was I might be a cool guy but I would not

Yah, probably not (this guy or gal better not be a system administrator
anywhere; after the plug is pulled on his company's connection, the firing
and lawsuit could ruin its life). However, anyone who supports the guy or
gal playing harvey might want to re-think the difference between a joke and
fraud; come on harvey sympathizers, write us a few lines about the benefits
supporting an obscene caller.

If this harvey guy or gal was so cool, we would see some super-human
funnies, or parody. Instead we get un-cool behavior: personal abuse, a foul
mouth, bragging, & taunts. This isn't just the occasional slip that we all
have seen or an outburst we've been involved in on the net. This wretch has
these behaviors as his reason for existence. 

This trash comes from someone who is scared to use his or her real name.
One does not have to be clever at all to beat the SMTP system the way
pseudo-harvey does. No coding involved. However, it takes the mentality of
a computer-virus writer to do what he/she does with that tiny knowledge. 

>I am not Mike Johnston! 

Yah, probably not. Probably a recent teenager, and judging from the
language/topics, one who is uncertain in gender identity, abused and
unliked by those who do see him/her face to face, and who has a great deal
of trouble liking him or her self.

Cheer up, pseudo-dave! And get a life. Go out and talk face to face 'til
you find some humans who like you, even if you're not LeMond.
Kim Cary, GSEP Systems Support, Pepperdine University

Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.racing
From: CMSC28@maccvm.corp.mot.com (Mark Hickey)
Subject: Re: Dave Harvey Speaks Out on Nipple Rash
Organization: Motorola
Date: 11 Dec 1992 17:14:30 CST

I thought I had it all figured out......
Dave Harvey was my hero... my idol... my pattern for living...
*Then*  I find out he's actually someone named Mike Johnston!

Just when I was going to go hang my tights up and weep.....
Bob `Bear' Geer(bgeer@beorn.sim.es.com) sez....

>Ah-hah!!!!  dharvey is really Tom Robbins in disguise.  Say "hi" to
>Fran the Tark for me!!!

Hmmmmmm. Maybe "Dave Harvey" is more like a cosmic cycling power
that decends on ordinary mortals like Mike and Tom for a while.
Suddenly, they find the words to flame anyone who can't deform a
Super Record bottom bracket... the audacity to challenge Jobst...
and maybe *just maybe* the quads to fly up the hills at warp
speed.  Gee.... maybe "Dave" will pay me a visit someday too.
I just hope I'm close to the finish line so "he" doesn't trash
my bike with his "power"!   *sigh*

Mark (come back, Dave... we need you.  and you.  and you.) Hickey
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.racing