HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
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Date:         Tue, 29 Sep 92 00:55:48 MDT
Reply-To:     gomide@BRFAPQ
Comments:     @FAPQ.FAPESP.BR - @FAPQ%FPSP.HEPNET - @BRFAPQ.BITNET - .BR
              gateway
Comments:     Warning -- original Sender: tag was GOMIDE@BRFAPQ
From:         gomide@FPSP.FAPESP.BR
Subject:      Apologies re: InterMeta course
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.history


PLEASE DO NOT SEND MONEY !
It is with regret that I perform this task. Dr. Gelson V. Gomes. a
professor of the University of Parana, Brazil, has exceeded this
privileges and announced a eletronic course:

> ____________________________________________________________
>        Mastering INTERNET Tools, Seizing METANET Power -
>                      The InterMeta Course
> ____________________________________________________________

I must apologize for this flagrant breach of network etiquette. Please
be aware that Dr. Gelson had no right to do so, since this is against
the rules of our ANSP network, and also against the Bitnet rules.
PLEASE DO NOT SEND MONEY!
I will not discuss what his motivations were. But his account has been
revoked, and there will be no such course through my network.

Please write by normal mail, to:
-> Gelson V. Gomes
-> 358, R. Alvaro Andrade - ap.1201
-> Curitiba PR BRAZIL 80610-240
to get more information on his objectives. He may want to give the
course by normal mail.  :-)

With regards,
--
Alberto Courrege Gomide | Fundacao de Amparo `a Pesquisa - (11)831-3357
Software Supervisor     | Rua Pio XI, 1500 - CEP 05468-901 - Sao Paulo
<gomide@fapq.fapesp.br> | FAX (11)261-4167 Telex (11)82014 - Brazil
(ACG8) - .BR Domain Technical Contact. |
--
Date: Tue, 13 Oct 1992 22:49:45 EDT
From: Stephen McCluskey <SCMCC@wvnvm.wvnet.edu>
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.history
Subject: Re: Alexandrian library (was Columbus)

Lenny wrote:

>Did you ever wonder why all the star names are Arabic, while the legends
>are Greek?  It is because the oral tradition of mythology could not be
>destroyed, while star names...many, many of thousands of them...were
>burnt.  The same applies to anatomy and pharmacology, though the names
>escape me.   The earliest star catalog which we have is by Ulgh Begh.
>Not a Greek or Roman gentleman.

     The earliest complete star catalog we have is by a 2nd c. Alexandrian
Greek, Claudius Ptolemy.  The star catalog in the Almagest (Books VII-VIII)
contains the positions of some thousand or so stars (I'm too lazy to count
and I can't find the total number in Pingree's edition)

--  Steve McCluskey
From: LABBEY@GTRI01.BITNET (Lenny)
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.history
Subject: Re: 500 Anniversary of the Admiral's Voyage
Date: 13 Oct 92 21:38:02 GMT
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU
              13 Oct 1992 14:22:00 EDT from <DGPAZ@CLEMSON.BITNET>

Denis, the Spanish treated the Indians the same way they treated their
own citizens.

They tortured them.

Lenny
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.history
Date:         Wed, 14 Oct 1992 10:06:53 +1000
From:         "(Marion Diamond)" <med@LINGUA.CLTR.UQ.OZ.AU>
Subject: Re: Material for blind hist students
Comments: To: HISTORY%RUTVM1.BITNET@pucc.Princeton.EDU

Yes, please, Richard.  We also have a blind student doing a variety of
history subjects - mainly Australian history, but including Austn. foreign
policy, where there may be some overlap.  But alternatively, maybe the
answer is a more general one: is there any way of swapping materials of
this type?  The Brisbane braille library has now produced lots of materials
for this student (and another, some years back).  As far as I know,
nothing is done to make it more widely available, but even a catalogue
made more widely available through the net, maybe, might be a good idea.

On a related point, when I had my books published by Melbourne University
Press, I signed something saying that I permitted the blind institute
(or something) in Melbourne to read the books onto cassette for distribution
if they wanted.  I've no idea if this was done - but presumably the same
goes for everything published by MUP.  It might be worth looking at the
catalogue.

Marion Diamond
med@lingua.cltr.uq.oz.au
From: cpl@PO.CWRU.EDU ((Cheryl P. Lewis))
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.history
Subject: Re: 500 Anniversary of the Admiral's Voyage
Date: 15 Oct 92 18:28:23 GMT
Reply-To: "(Cheryl P. Lewis)" <cpl@po.CWRU.Edu>
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU
Comments: To: HISTORY@UBVM.cc.buffalo.edu

Thank you for saying that. I'm glad someone finally did.

--
Cheryl Lewis           (216) 368-2792
Circulation Assistant   cpl@po.cwru.edu
Law Library
Case Western Reserve University
From: SCMCC@wvnvm.wvnet.edu (Stephen McCluskey)
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.history
Subject: Re: Constellations
Date: 15 Oct 92 22:06:57 GMT


      What a nice question, I'm writing a book about it (he says
modestly :-)
      One indication of why the Carolingians were interested in the
Aratus texts was that they appeared in a series of computistical
collections that emerged around 810.  Besides Aratus these manuscripts
included excerpts from Pliny on astronomy -- and central to the whole
exercise, excerpts from Bede on _Computus_, the art of calculating
the date of Easter.
      This concern with astronomy seems to have been justified by its
relation to Easter.  If you look at the thrust of the passage on
education in Charlemagne's _admonito generalis_ you'll find him concerned
that prayers be done properly, that texts be copied properly, that students
be taught chant, copying of texts, and computus.  The astronomical manu-
scripts are then on a par with the authentic copies of the bible, of
monastic rules, and of law codes that flowed from the Carolingian court.
     And the Carolingians were not averse to mixing a computist like
Bede with classical sources like Pliny and Aratus, after all, Bede himself
had quoted Pliny and Macrobius.
--   Steve McCluskey
From: SCMCC@WVNVM.BITNET (Stephen McCluskey)
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.history
Subject: Re: Alexandrian library (was Columbus)
Date: 14 Oct 92 22:06:12 GMT
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU
Comments:     <Parser> W: TO field duplicated. Last occurence was retained.
Comments: To: DGPAZ@CLEMSON.BITNET

Denis Paz (dgpaz@clemson.bitnet) wrote:
.
>Lenny -- Your point about the Greek names of
>constellations having been preserved and transmitted
>by oral folk tradition made sense -- but how does
>one explain that Greek constellation names replaced
>Germanic constellation names, even in England,
>Scandinavia, and Germany, where there would have
>been no residual graeco-roman influences?

      In fact, the Greek constellation names were not transmitted
by oral tradition, for we have good evidence for the transmission
of them in the Latin translations of Aratus' so-called star catalog.
in fact, Aratus is more a constellation catalog than a star catalog;
the illuminations in the deluxe Carolingian manuscripts do not depict
the positions of the stars with any accuracy, but they do present
artistically idealized pictures of Cygnus, Delphinus, Deltoton =
Triangulum, etc....  These written texts so clearly explain the
survival of classical constellation names that postulating a hidden
oral transmission is indemonstrable and unnecesary.
     This also suggests we must place some limits on the extent of the
negative influence of the burning of the library at Alexandria.  My
personal feeling is that it is more symptomatic of the decline of learning
in late antiquity than its cause.

--  Steve McCluskey
From: ICJME@ASUACAD.BITNET
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.history
Subject: Re: Alexandrian library (was Columbus)
Date: 14 Oct 92 21:41:47 GMT
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU


 *** Reply to note of 10/14/92 13:44
 Greetings and Salutations
 Having had the rather interesting experience of being in Europe for extended
 periods of time (semi-voluntarily - USAF), I can say that if you are in
 Germany, England, or other points north, you tend to miss a lot of the stars
 that are visible from more southern climes. Also, if you do see those stars
 (and constellations), you don't see them for very long, say a month a year?
 When Roman and Roman-influenced information came north, they had names from
 their sources (whatever they may have been) for all of their stars, which the
 Northerners would have used when they saw those stars/configurations.
   Also, did the Northmen have the same tradition of naming the
 stars/constellations as southerners did? (I don't know, but from the dim
 recesses of memory, I recall something about a constellation they called "Old
 One Eye" (Odin, Wodin, Wotan, etc.))
   Just a possible explanation.

 |---------------|
 |Jim Emmons     |  And when are you going to dance with
 |<icjme@asuacad>|  Danny Deever?
 |---------------|
From: DA_AZIZ@FANDM.BITNET (VAX GREMLIN)
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.history
Subject: Re: Novels & History
Date: 14 Oct 92 20:27:58 GMT
Organization: Franklin and Marshall College
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU
X-Envelope-to: HISTORY@RUTVM1.BITNET
X-VMS-To: IN%"HISTORY@RUTVM1.BITNET"
MIME-version: 1.0
Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT

Date sent:  14-OCT-1992 16:19:48
  Well the best historical novel I've ever read is called "Let the Emperor
Speak!" but I forget the authors name. Great book tho. It is much like I
Claudius (covers much of the same time period) but is presented as the long
lost autobiography of Augustus Ceaser! I was hooked from the minute I picked it
up and was the first work of historical fiction I had read (and is still the
best). The mark of a great historical novel to me is that it makes you want to
go out and read more about the history presented in it. After reading "Let the
Emperor Speak!" I was on a Roman history research kick for months and to this
day I still have a interest in the history of Romans first ruling family.
    The best historical work which reads like a novel that I have come across
is BAT-21, about a downed flyer behind enemy lines in Vietnam. Some of you may
have seen the movie version with Gene Hackman (I haven't seen it thought) but I

suggest reading the book as well if you can find it. Totally true and yet reads
fast. If only all history was as well written as this book was/is.
Debbie
%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%
%Debbie A. Aziz           "And pray that there's         %
%206a Lincoln MIll Rd.    intelligent life somewhere up  %
%Mullica Hill N.J.         in space, Because there's     %
%Prodigy:RMPJ97A          bugger all down here on        %
%By way of F&M College:            Earth"                %
%Bitnet:DA_Aziz@Fandm.Bitnet      --Monty Python         %
%Internet:DA_AZIZ@ACAD.FANDM.EDU     The Galaxy Song     %
%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.history
From: creps@silver.ucs.indiana.edu (Steve Creps)
Subject: Columbus, smallpox, and syphilis
Organization: Indiana University
Date: Thu, 15 Oct 1992 18:00:58 GMT


   In the many debates over Columbus, the point of disease is often
brought up.  Of course nobody is saying that Columbus intended to
spread disease to the natives he encountered, although one often hears
the more radical element screaming about how the Spanish explorers
brought disease to them, in attempts to show how "evil" they were.

   I believe smallpox is the disease that actually wiped out so many
of the natives, although there is apparently no evidence that it was
intentional.  On the other hand, there is some evidence for cases of
perhaps English colonists purposely giving smallpox-infected blankets
to Indians.

   Anyway, what I often hear from the more radical revisionists is
saying that the Spanish brought syphilis to the natives, or by
innuendo in referring to the Spanish as "syphilitic."  However, I
thought this was the other way around: that some of the Spanish
contracted syphilis from the natives, thereby bringing it back to
Europe.  What does the historical evidence say about this?

-	-	-	-	-	-	-	-	-	-
Steve Creps, Indiana University
creps@silver.ucs.indiana.edu
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU
Return-Path: <junger@samsara.law.cwru.edu>
X-Mailer: PCElm 3.01
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.history
Date:         Mon, 12 Oct 1992 17:27:08 EDT
Reply-To:     junger@samsara.law.cwru.edu
From:         "(Peter D. Junger)" <junger@SAMSARA.LAW.CWRU.EDU>
Subject: Re: Columbus
Comments: To: history%rutvm1.BITNET@cunyvm.cuny.edu

>Greetings to list members on this, the 500th anniversary of the most
>important single event in the history of the human race.

What complete humbug!  Everyone knows that the most important single
event in the history of the human occurred millenia before when man
first ate an oyster.


Peter D. Junger

Case Western Reserve University Law School, Cleveland, OH
Internet:  JUNGER@SAMSARA.LAW.CWRU.Edu -- Bitnet:  JUNGER@CWRU
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.history
From: pbrown@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (Philip C Brown)
Subject: Re: genocide
Organization: The Ohio State University
Date: Tue, 13 Oct 1992 20:10:32 GMT

Phil Brown
Brown.113@osu.edu
From: LABBEY@GTRI01.BITNET (Lenny)
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.history
Subject: Re: Alexandrian library (was Columbus)
Date: 14 Oct 92 20:19:05 GMT
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU
              14 Oct 1992 12:42:00 EDT from <DGPAZ@CLEMSON.BITNET>

Denis, I think that the Greeks had the prevalent mythology and constellations
to go with it.  I don't know why the Germanics did not have a really
sucessful rival system.

Today we use the Greek constellations, and the Arabic star names.  We also
are aware of some constellations and names recognized by the Egyptians and
Chinese, but this is only a curiosity to us.

Lenny
From: LABBEY@GTRI01.BITNET (Lenny)
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.history
Subject: Re: Novels & History
Date: 14 Oct 92 03:12:31 GMT
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU
              14 Oct 1992 09:02:00 +08:00 from <S30285@BC750.BITNET>

For good historical novels, without philosophical conjectures, or confusing
attempts to find meaning in life, try the stories of Van Wyck Mason.

Lenny
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.history
Date:         Wed, 14 Oct 1992 12:42:00 EDT
From:         DGPAZ@CLEMSON.BITNET
Subject:      Re: Alexandrian library (was Columbus)

On Tue, 13 Oct 1992 22:49:45 EDT Stephen McCluskey
<SCMCC@WVNVM.WVNET.EDU> said:

> Lenny wrote:
>
> >Did you ever wonder why all the star names are Arabic, while the
legends
> >are Greek?  It is because the oral tradition of mythology could not be
> >destroyed, while star names...many, many of thousands of them...were
> >burnt.  The same applies to anatomy and pharmacology, though the names
> >escape me.   The earliest star catalog which we have is by Ulgh Begh.
> >Not a Greek or Roman gentleman.
>
>      The earliest complete star catalog we have is by a 2nd c. Alexandrian
> Greek, Claudius Ptolemy.  The star catalog in the Almagest (Books VII-VIII)
> contains the positions of some thousand or so stars (I'm too lazy to count
> and I can't find the total number in Pingree's edition)
>
> --  Steve McCluskey

So are you saying that Lenny's assertion about the
consequences of the Alexandrine Library's burning
for astronomy is invalid, because it rests on the
mistaken assumption that no Greek star catalogues
existed? How then does one explain the Arabic names
for the stars?

Lenny -- Your point about the Greek names of
constellations having been preserved and transmitted
by oral folk tradition made sense -- but how does
one explain that Greek constellation names replaced
Germanic constellation names, even in England,
Scandinavia, and Germany, where there would have
been no residual graeco-roman influences?

Denis Paz
dgpaz@clemson.bitnet
From: bob@HALFDOME.SF.CA.US (bob pasker)
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.history
Subject: on quoting other's messages
Date: 15 Oct 92 00:40:46 GMT
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU
X-Vms-Mail-To: HISTORY-L
Comments: To: well!rutvm1.BITNET!history@uunet.UU.NET

i have forwarded jim a copy of the magic programs to quote
replies on a vax.  other's who are interested can send me private
e-mail.  also, i have some vax/emacs enhancements for those interested.
- bob
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.history
From: mrr1@Ra.MsState.Edu (mark r rauschkolb)
Subject: Ruthenians / Red Russians
Reply-To: mrr1@Ra.MsState.Edu
Organization: Mississippi State University
Date: Wed, 7 Oct 1992 18:41:05 GMT

I recently discovered that my ancestors are from what is now the lower
left-hand corner of Poland, real close to the Czeck(? sorry I can't figure 
out how to spell ity or abbreviate it) boarder.

I looked up the area (Galicia) in a turn of the century encyclopedia and
almost all it had was serious stereotypes:
   "drink too much brandy and are mean to their wives and children" or
   " are friendly enough, but are untrustworthy"

Can anybody suggest a good source of information?

Thanks

Mark Rauschkolb
mrr1@ra.msstate.edu
From: bsinger@eniac.seas.upenn.edu (Bayla Singer)
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.history
Subject: Re: 500th Anniversary of the Admiral's Voyage
Date: 15 Oct 92 01:38:11 GMT
Organization: Independent scholar

How'd we get diverted into judgemental debates over whether the 
interactions between Old & New Worlds was a <good thing>?  I 
thought we started by speaking of it as <pivotal> -- for good
*or* evil.  After all, I think we all agree that the burning of 
<whichever> Alexandrian library was <not a good thing>, but the
discussion has focussed on whether or not it was *important* as
far as <historical consequences> are involved.

--bayla

 

Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU
X-Envelope-to: HISTORY@IRLEARN.BITNET
X-VMS-To: IN%"HISTORY@IRLEARN.BITNET"
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.history
Date:         Thu, 8 Oct 1992 16:06:00 GMT
From:         ARHN6001@IRUCCVAX.UCC.IE
Subject:      Re: WINDO ALERT no more, please

        I find the WINDO postings informative -- itis nice to see what is
happening in the US, and might happen over here, eventually. If I was a US
citizen, I would certainly take to trouble to write to the public
representatives on the various committees.

        Mike Cosgrave
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.history
Date:         Tue, 13 Oct 1992 23:18:42 CDT
From:         "DAN SMITH U09183.UICVM.CC.EDU (312) 996-3151"
              <U09183@UICVM.BITNET>
Subject:      digitizing 1790 printed census listings

as projected by Steve Taylor at Emory University.

     I have done some work with a sample of household-level
data from the 1790 listings of heads of households.  See
article in AMERICAN HISTORICAL REVIEW 94 (Feb. 1989), 44-79.

     I assume your plan is to scan optically the listings in
the printed volume.  I would find the results useful.

     The main deficiencies of the 1790 listings are:

     (1)  Missing returns for several states in the 1790-
1820 period.  The taxables printed to replace the missing
Virginia lists are not identical to householders or heads of
households.  In particular, there are too few women taxables
(4%) in my samples compared to an estimated "true" figure of
about 8%.

     (2)  Some of the listings are alphabetized rather in
geographic order as the population was enumerated.
Curiously, one North Carolina county was alphabetized by
first name.

     (3)  Very limited information on age structure; this
makes the possible fertility indicator very crude indeed.

     (4)  Some good analysis of the returns appears in W.S. Rossiter, A
CENTURY OF POPULATION GROWTH (Washington, 1909).

     If you were undertaking a project using the original
microfilm, I would suggest either the 1800 listings, because
of its early date, its usable age structure data, and its
proximity to the 1798 Direct Tax, which provides some
economic data at a level below the state.

     However, in economic and demographic terms, the entire
1790-1820 era may be grouped together as part of the
preindustrial period.

     Alternatively, I would suggest the 1820 census, which
has the least missing population (Rhode Island, New Jersey,
Georgia, most of the Northwest Territory, and Arkansas are
missing, according to Rossiter, CENTURY, p. 49).  (This
information might now be incorrect, as I can't locate my Guide
to the Census Microfilms.

     1820 is also the earliest census to have an question of
the numbers in a household in several sectors of the economy.

Daniel S. Smith
Dept of History  m/c 198
Univ of IL-Chicago
Box 4348
Chicago, IL 60680

FAX (312) 996-6377
Office (312) 996-3151
Home (708) 848-2330

EMAIL: U09183@UICVM.bitnet
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.history
Date:         Fri, 16 Oct 1992 00:09:04 -0500
From:         drummond andrew <adrummon@UXA.CSO.UIUC.EDU>
Subject:      Re: 500th Anniversary of the Admiral's Voyage
Comments: To: HISTORY@psuvm.bitnet

Haines, thanks for the commentary; it's certainly worth the the effort of
reading.  I think most of THE POPULACE has decided that Columbus' voyage
had some significance.  Let me ask, though, what significance would be
attributed to Columbus' first voyage if the man had followed the Greeks'
advice and died happy, 5 minutes after his arrival in the New World?
Does a view of the world as influenced by historical forces leave any
room for individual action?  I may be out on a limb here, but I think there
is something very troubling about a view that eliminates the possibility of
people being brave, or good, or, even, "noble".  What is there to aspire to?
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU
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Newsgroups: bit.listserv.history
Date:         Wed, 7 Oct 1992 12:58:30 -0400
From:         Michael Cammer <cammer@AECOM.YU.EDU>
Subject:      socialism (fwd)
Comments: To: history <history@ubvm.bitnet>

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Date: Wed, 07 Oct 1992 07:13:49 EDT
From: pgb3@Lehigh.EDU (Paul G. Beidler)
To: HUMGRAD@newcastle.ac.uk
Reply-To: pgb3@Lehigh.EDU (Paul G. Beidler)


Anybody out there know of a listserv discussion list on political science or,
more specifically, socialism in Europe?  I would appreciate it if you could
send the address of such a list.  Thanks.

                                                        Paul


--591422604-25066154-718477123:#7571--
From: LABBEY@GTRI01.BITNET (Lenny)
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.history
Subject: Re: genocide
Date: 13 Oct 92 21:26:01 GMT
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU

Were entire races wiped out in Uganda, Biafra, and Cambodia?

Lenny
From: MMORSE@VM1.YORKU.CA (Michael)
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.history
Subject: Re: 500 Anniversary of the Queens' English
Date: 14 Oct 92 17:27:38 GMT
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU


  Is Joe Fitzharris an English speaker, or is he merely attempting
the puerile ploy of using "image" as a verb?
Michael Morse
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU