HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: mikec@ux1.lbl.gov (Mike Chin)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.asian.american
Subject: Re: Asian-American Guys Superior?
Keywords: whitewater, kayaking
Date: 15 Aug 92 01:26:30 GMT
Reply-To: mikec@ux1.lbl.gov (Mike Chin)
Distribution: na
Organization: Lawrence Berkeley Laboratory

In article <216a02VD1eZH01@JUTS.ccc.amdahl.com> mtw@cd.amdahl.com (Mark Wong) writes:

>I have made a concious decision that hiking, backpacking, XC skiing,
>white water 
>rafting, etc. and the organizations that support these activities are
>
>Mark

My main diversion for the last 6 years has been whitewater kayaking, both
slalom racing & playboating/expedition trips. I've paddled in California,
Idaho, Oregon, & Colorado; I've only met two other AAM paddlers, & none
of my age (early 30's). Conversely, there are 4 local AAFs I paddle with
regularly, or used to when there was water in Ca :-).

I sometimes see Asians in paddle rafts, but usually in a commercial outfit or
university sponsered trip; most likely a group of Asian friends deciding
to try rafting as opposed to a group of rafters who happen to be Asian.
On the other hand, I'm seeing more & more AF raft guides; AF
seem to greatly outnumber AM raft guides (observational bias perhaps)

I'll date any woman that doesn't mind wet smelly polypro :-), but 
of people sharing my interests (outdoors stuff), the M/F ratio is
depressingly high, and (to agree with Mark) are nearly all white.

mike chin
MJChin@lbl.gov
From: jj@alice.att.com (jj, curmudgeon and clueless old white boy)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.asian.american
Subject: Re: Perceptions, Realities, Perceptions
Date: 14 Aug 92 19:51:33 GMT
Article-I.D.: alice.23458
Reply-To: jj@alice.UUCP (jj, curmudgeon and clueless old white boy)
Organization: NJ State Home for Bewildered Terminals

In article <MDAY.92Aug13115336@jukebox.lcs.mit.edu> mday@jukebox.lcs.mit.edu (Mark Day) writes:
>I don't think you have a very good grasp of how thorough the bias
>against non-WASPs was in this country.  It's true that now the
>divisions are "whites" vs. "blacks", "asians", "hispanics", etc.; but
>earlier this century or last century, the idea of a WASP being somehow
>indistinguishable from an Irish or Italian person would have been
>laughable.
That's for sure.  In fact, back in 1959 when I started into
grade school, one of the first things that was pointed out to
me was that I was in no way a WASP.  White, yes, at least
in the face. Anglo-Saxon? Not a chance.  Protestant, well,
yeah, at the time (but no longer).  Now, most of what distinguished
me was that my eyes aren't blue, my hair isn't blonde (and furthermore
it has suggestions of that good ol' Mick red), and that my dad
worked in "the mill" not "in the office".

Would that it was gone in 1959.  History would be different.
Perhaps I would have never hated where I came from, and
all the petty tyrants and bigots who lived there, and I
would have never grown put to be a fer shure research scientist.
I might have stayed in the mill.

Then, just think, I wouldn't have netnews access.  Now, you see?
That's how you would have benefitted from the elimination of
prejudice in 1959.
-- 
 Bush    *Copyright alice!jj 1992, all rights reserved, except transmission
   vs       *by USENET and like facilities granted.      Said permission is
 Clinton  --    *granted only for complete copies that include this notice.
 Just Say !NO!       *Use on pay-for-read services specifically disallowed.
From: jdooley@maemaster.eng.uci.edu (John R. Dooley)
Subject: Re: Hoyt Sze's "Parting Shot"
Newsgroups: soc.culture.asian.american
Organization: University of California, Irvine
Date: 20 Aug 92 19:59:04 GMT

In article <16sf67INNcrs@agate.berkeley.edu> judyy@ocf.berkeley.edu (Judy Y. Tseng) writes:
>
>
>	Accomodation is a synonym for murder; 
>

   Here we have a person whose stayed in a few too many cheap motels.


John D.
From: ag3l+@andrew.cmu.edu (Arun K. Gupta)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.asian.american
Subject: Re: why satti is practiced...
Date: 14 Aug 92 17:00:56 GMT
Article-I.D.: andrew.AeX5R8m00WDM01GlVh
Organization: Physics, Carnegie Mellon, Pittsburgh, PA



Hinduism is what Hindus practice. Let us not get into the sterile mode
of making alibis -- caste-discrimination is not Hindu,  dowry is not 
Hindu, satti is not Hindu and so on.   (These kinds of alibis are used for
example, by Communists -- why communism failed is that we never
had ideal communism; and by some Muslims -- what exists around 
you and what Muslims practice is not `true' Islam and so on. There
may be a little merit in these arguments,  but mostly it is an excuse to
do nothing, to change nothing, to feel no outrage.)

We are to be measured by how much we realize our ideals; and not by
having great ideals which always give us an alibi.  Let us do away with
Satti and teach people to abhor its practice, and thus be able to hold our
heads high.

-arun gupta
ag3L@andrew.cmu.edu
Newsgroups: soc.culture.asian.american
From: thao@bnr.ca (Anthony Murtagh)
Subject: Re: Why do minority groups whine?
Organization: Bell-Northern Research, Richardson, Tx.
Distribution: usa
Date: Wed, 12 Aug 1992 17:08:15 GMT

In article <MDAY.92Aug12105955@jukebox.lcs.mit.edu> mday@jukebox.lcs.mit.edu (Mark Day) writes:

[bukus of stuff deleted]

>
>It's not whining to point out the structural inequities in American
>culture based on "race", income, and social class, and to urge the
>elimination of those inequities.



!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
*									   *
* >What becomes whiney is when people					   *
* >blame those inequities for everything that's wrong with their life.	   *
* >									   *
* >--Mark Day								   *
* >									   *
*									   *
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

exactly!!!  rather than attempt to _act_ (take actions) to make things
better, they're complacent to lay blame on other people (even though 
the initial fault may very well be from that group) and do nothing
more than that.

laly thao "i'd better stop...i'm beginning to feel the "whining" syndrome"


/***********************************************************************************\
*   thao@cse.uta.edu	   |  "The lipstick is purple.  The mecha is Psycho."	    *
*   B645ZAY@UTARLG.UTA.EDU |                          -old Panime newsletter        *
\***********************************************************************************/
Newsgroups: soc.culture.asian.american
From: wung@puttgen.ee.gatech.edu (Peter Wung)
Subject: Re: Perceptions, Realities, Perceptions
Reply-To: wung@puttgen.ee.gatech.edu
Organization: Sun Microsystems
Date: Sat, 22 Aug 1992 19:35:50 GMT

In article 23519@alice.att.com, jj@alice.att.com (jj, clueless old white boy) writes:
>|In article <1992Aug21.141655.20807@ee.gatech.edu> wung@eecom.gatech.edu writes:
>|>In article 23506@alice.att.com, jj@alice.att.com (jj, clueless old white boy) writes:
>|
>|>>|And I don't agree that I'm significantly "one up".  I have already
>|>>|said "a little bit", but frankly, damn little, and no comfort
>|>>|to either of us.
>|
>|>But you are still one up on me, whether you realize it or not.
>|
>|What's your problem, Wung?  What does my paragraph above say?
>|It says I realize it.  It also says that I regard 1 part in 
>|1 million as utterly pointless.
>|
>|What is your problem?  Didn't you bother to read my article
>|before you accused me of saying something I didn't?
>|
>|I'm sorry to get hostile, but YOU are simply ignoring the
>|debate, and trying to create a little bit of hatred
>|by your "proof by exhaustive assertion".
>|
>|Enough.  Let's move on to something we don't agree on, OK?
>|-- 
>| Bush    *Copyright alice!jj 1992, all rights reserved, except transmission
>|   vs       *by USENET and like facilities granted.      Said permission is
>| Clinton  --    *granted only for complete copies that include this notice.
>| Just Say !NO!       *Use on pay-for-read services specifically disallowed.


My problem with you is that you are insistent that being white in this society 
gives you no significant advantage, which is absolute hogwash!  Being white
in white america is a large advantage yesterday, today, but hopefully not
tomorrow.  It isn't until you, the white majority, regardless of economic
stature, realize this that we can go about living together.  I do read your
articles, perhaps your attempts to disregard my arguements prompted my
responses.  Naah, white folks are always right, aren't they?

****************************************************************************
*Peter Wung				Email:wung@ee.gatech.edu	   * 
*Electric Power Laboratory		Snail mail: 33787 Ga. Tech Station * 
*School of Electrical Engineering		    Atlanta, GA 30332      *
*Georgia Institute of Technology				    	   *        *Atlanta, Georgia							   *
*   	"Pass, Set, CRUSH!"...						   * 
*  	Well, 2 out of 3 ain't bad for a short, fat guy.  		   *
*									   *
****************************************************************************

Newsgroups: soc.culture.asian.american
From: rtang@sunee.uwaterloo.ca (The One Your Mother Warned You About!)
Subject: Re: Empathy again (was Re: Disposable Posters of Hypocrisy)
Organization: University of Waterloo
Distribution: na
Date: Thu, 13 Aug 1992 05:58:50 GMT

In article <1992Aug13.003828.17158@oakhill.sps.mot.com> jpak@manute.sps.mot.com writes:
>Sigh.  Why do so many in this newsgroup whip out the dictionary all the
>time?
Its like playing "quick draw", I guess a dictionary is equivalent
to a gun in the newsnet world.

>webster  dictionary
dic-tio-nary \'dik-she-,ner-e^-\
[ML dictionarium, fr. LL diction-, dictio word, fr. L, speaking]
(1526)
1: a reference book containing words usu. alphabetically arranged along
     with information about their forms, pronunciations, functions,
     etymologies, meanings, and syntactical and idiomatic uses
2: a reference book listing alphabetically terms or names important
     to a particular subject or activity along with discussion of their
     meanings and applications
3: a reference book giving for words of one language equivalents in
     another
4: a list (as of phrases, synonyms, or hyphenation instructions) stored
     in machine-readable form (as on a disk) for reference by an automatic
     system (as for information retrieval or computerized typesetting)

Whew! AM I NOT THE WORLD'S FASTEST DRAW?!?!! :)

>Tell me, if someone told you how wonderful Hawaii is and how you should
>definitely move there, and you asked him/her, "When did you live there?",
>and that person said, "I've never lived there.  I've never even been there
>once but I've heard it was nice," do you put as much weight on their words
>as you do with someone who's actually lived there?
>Is that person an "expert" on the "Hawaiian experience"?
Nop, But I suspect he is at least a little OBSESSED with Hawaii,
and rather mentally imbalance! BUT I'd say "Gilligan" just to
see if HE ANSWERS! :)

>If someone said, "Well, I've never been to Hawaii, but I've been to Jamaica,
>and hey, both are tropical resorts and thus I think my experience in Jamaica
>helps me to understand what Hawaii would be like," does that really help?
>If I wanted to know what's it like to live in New York City, why the heck
>would I listen to someone who only lived in LA?  Or vice versa?
Funny you should mention NY and Hawaii together.  A friend of
mine who was recently in Hawaii, described it as "Imagine if
NY City was put on an Island, THAT Hawaii!" :)

>How about if some guy told you how great sex was, and you found out later
>he was a virgin?  What do you think of his opinion then?  "But I tell you,
>it really *looked* good in the last triple-X feature I saw."  Ha ha ha...
I guess he has a GREAT IMAGINATION and A GOOD WRIST! :)

>If somebody told you, "Lui, try bungee jumping, I know it's kind of scary,
>but it's really exhilirating and thrilling," and you asked him when he/she
>did it and he/she said, "Never," what pops into your mind?  I know what
>pops into mine.
I'd say, Let's GO, _I_'ll tie your rope for YOU! hehehe! :)

TOYWMYA

Newsgroups: soc.culture.asian.american
From: garyh@sco.COM (< Gary H >)
Subject: Re: White Guys Superior?
Organization: The Santa Cruz Operation, Inc.
Date: Mon, 10 Aug 1992 20:57:19 GMT


In article <l82ut5INNl6p@male.EBay.Sun.COM> anonymous writes:
!
!Straight Asian females have in college been very rude to me or stand-offish
!in my presence perhaps for my being "another Asian guy" whom they just don't
!need or aren't interested in. One Asian female confided in my white boyfriend
!and said outright "Asian guys are just ugly." (She wasn't too Leave It to 
                    *************************
!Beaver looking herself and she should have told her father that.)

I was flipping through channels the other day and I happen to run across
a Taiwanese soap opera show.  I usually don't judge guys, but after reading
scaa and becoming more aware about AM issues I noticed that the guys in
the soap opera are pretty good looking.  They are tall and very clean looking
and have a good build.  This sure clash with the stereotypical image of a
wimpy, greasy pencil-neck asian nerd.  The AF on the show are also HOT! Boy,
I wish I could understand Mandarin.  Some of the HK soap operas also have
very good looking people.

Gary

-- 
|^^^^^^|            _Yo_Man_____________________________
|      |          /            garyh@sco.com             \
|  _  _|        /             uunet!sco!garyh              \
| (o)(o)      /             425  Encinal Street              \
@      _)   /          Santa Cruz, California  95061          |
 | ,___|   /   W: [408] 457-0195 x7765 / Fax: [408] 429-1887 /
 |   /     \_______________________________________________/
/____\            The Santa Cruz Operation (SCO), Inc.
Newsgroups: soc.culture.asian.american
From: Michael F. Kamprath <kamprath@space-grant.sprl.umich.edu>
Subject: Re: Racial Beating
Date: Thu, 20 Aug 92 11:40:35 EDT
Organization: University of Michigan, Aerospace Engineering
X-Useragent: Nuntius v1.1.1d5
X-Xxdate: Thu, 20 Aug 92 11:40:57 GMT

In article <1992Aug20.134459.24076@natinst.com> Osbert Tan, fellow@natinst.com writes:
>My question to the net is, how do you deal with this type of situation
>(i.e. racial slur), at the same time coming out of it with honor/dinity
>(you fill in the appropriate word(s)) intact and ALIVE ?
>
>-Osbert

Why would one need to defend his honor from those type of guys anyways?  The
Vietnamese guy's actions were probaly just what the thugs wanted.  Sometimes,
"restraint is the better part of valore."  I can understand the "heat of the
moment," I've been in that position plenty of times myself.  But when you
are 19, in Med-school and surrounded by 10+ losers, defending your honor
is a senseless and a lost cause because it will do you no good (and it didn't).  

From a tatical point of view, his best move would have been to retreat and
regroup (gather friends).  But that is starting to sound like gang violence.

========================================================================
| Michael F. Kamprath                   | The University of Michigan   |
|   kamprath@space-grant.sprl.umich.edu |      Aerospace Engineering   |
|   kamprath@engin.umich.edu            |                              |
|---------------------------------------+------------------------------+
|       And if a man can't change the world these days,                |
|       I still believe he can change his own destiny.                 |
|                                 --Michael Peters (The Alarm)         |
|                                   "The Spirit of '76"                |
========================================================================
Newsgroups: soc.culture.asian.american
From: Michael F. Kamprath <kamprath@space-grant.sprl.umich.edu>
Subject: Re: Racial Beating
Date: Thu, 20 Aug 92 17:11:53 EDT
Organization: University of Michigan, Aerospace Engineering
X-Useragent: Nuntius v1.1.1d5
X-Xxdate: Thu, 20 Aug 92 17:12:14 GMT

In article <2A9400C8.18590@orion.oac.uci.edu> John R. Dooley, jdooley@maemaster.eng.uci.edu
writes:
>>The
>>Vietnamese guy's actions were probaly just what the thugs wanted.  Sometimes,
>>"restraint is the better part of valore."  I can understand the "heat of the
>>moment," I've been in that position plenty of times myself.  But when you
>>are 19, in Med-school and surrounded by 10+ losers, defending your honor
>>is a senseless and a lost cause because it will do you no good (and it didn't).  
>I'm certain you do not intend this, but this paragraph makes it sound
>as if you're blaming the victim.  You can't expect everyone to show
>"restraint" when attacked.  If this young man had not been lynched,
>someone else would have been.
>
>

Of course I was not blaming the victim.  I was responding to the original poster's
question of how to "defend ones honor in such a situation."  My response was
to question the need to defend "honor" when doing so gains you nothing.  

I personally do not feel that my "honor" is insulted by the names
other's could call me.  It actually affects their "honor."  But,
obviousely, others do feel that their "honor" is directly related to the
names people call them.  I just don't feel defending one's honor from 
name calling is worth bodily damage.  (Not that I probally wouldn't repsond
in some manner :-))

And remeber, my post was a response to a posted question, not an attack
on the dead guy's actions.  

But, as always, you see what you want to see.  This is a "free" country.


========================================================================
| Michael F. Kamprath                   | The University of Michigan   |
|   kamprath@space-grant.sprl.umich.edu |      Aerospace Engineering   |
|   kamprath@engin.umich.edu            |                              |
+---------------------------------------+------------------------------+
|       And if a man can't change the world these days,                |
|       I still believe he can change his own destiny.                 |
|                                 --Michael Peters (The Alarm)         |
|                                   "The Spirit of '76"                |
========================================================================
Newsgroups: soc.culture.asian.american
From: ajh@Xenon.Stanford.EDU (Alan Hu)
Subject: Re: Caucasians don't understand
Organization: Computer Science Department, Stanford University.
Date: Fri, 14 Aug 1992 22:11:58 GMT

In article <1992Aug14.155011.2853@island.COM> fester@island.COM (Mike Fester) writes:
>In article <1992Aug12.183617.21725@inmet.camb.inmet.com> lrq@fanny (Robert Quan) writes:
>>
	[Robert's assertion that white people cannot fully understand
	 the Asian-American experience deleted.]
>
>There are, however, some of us who have lived in other countries, and have
>friends who have lived in other countries. Outside the US, and a few European
>nations (though not, by any means, all), discrimination on the basis of race,
>creed, color, sex, etc, is not only the norm, but legal. Some of us, Mr Quan,
>HAVE been on the receiving end, yet we still maintain "an optimistic view". 
>Some of us have grown up, spent large amounts of time, or have or currently
>live in "predominantly minority" (boy, I love THAT phrase) neighborhoods.
>
	[Assertion that some white people have family ties and
	 have done volunteer work for minorities deleted.]
	[Defense against hypocrisy charge deleted.]
>Mike
	[.signature deleted.]

I've heard the I've-travelled-a-lot-and-lived-in-places-where-discrimination-
is-against-the-white-people-and-it's-a-lot-worse argument a lot.
(Coincidentally, always from white males.)

I had a white male friend, also named Mike.  (Statistical proof that all
white guys are named Mike!!!)  I was whining, as we all know Asian-American
males are genetically programmed to do, about the problems facing
Asian Americans in the US.  He replied that, yes, he understood fully,
since he had been travelling in Asia and had faced much worse anti-white
racism, which I don't doubt at all.  The fundamental point he misssed, though,
was that he was *travelling* in a *foreign* country.  For Asian Americans,
however, we are not travelling anywhere.  We are not in a foreign country.
We are at home.  This is our only country.  And yet we are not accepted.
(We can no more go "back" to Asia than white people can move "back" to Europe.)

My friend Mike, no matter what treatment he received in Asia, always knew
deep in his heart that his journey would end, that he'd return to the
comfortable white suburbia of his youth, that he wouldn't have to deal
with systematic, institutionalized racism.  Sure, he might feel a little
uncomfortable driving through a neighborhood here or eating at a restaurant
there, but that's not a crushing, omnipresent factor.

For Asian Americans, there is no return to a safe haven.  This is our
country, and this is the haven we must make safe.
							--Alan Hu
Newsgroups: soc.culture.asian.american
From: mark@cs.UAlberta.CA (Mark Green)
Subject: Re: Caucasians don't understand
Organization: University of Alberta
Date: Sun, 16 Aug 1992 02:52:09 GMT

In article <SHAW.92Aug14222100@whopper.lcs.mit.edu> shaw@whopper.lcs.mit.edu (Andy Shaw) writes:
>In article <1992Aug14.221158.2273@CSD-NewsHost.Stanford.EDU> ajh@Xenon.Stanford.EDU (Alan Hu) writes:
>   In article <1992Aug14.155011.2853@island.COM> fester@island.COM (Mike Fester) writes:
>   >In article <1992Aug12.183617.21725@inmet.camb.inmet.com> lrq@fanny (Robert Quan) writes:
>   >>
>	   [Robert's assertion that white people cannot fully understand
>	    the Asian-American experience deleted.]
>   >
>
>Even in foreign countries, white foreigners are often treated very well,

How would you know??  Making claims about how whites are treated in
foreign countries is the same as whites making comments about how
asians are treated in the US, isn't it??? :-)

>because they are automatically assumed to have some sort of power, whether
>it is economic, diplomatic, military, or just some magical power emanating
>from their skin that causes them to be some sort of super-human.

Where did you ever get this idea?  Maybe in tourist areas it might be the
case, as long as you have lots of money, but outside of the tourist areas
you get no special treatment.  There are lots of times that I would like
to have that sort of power, maybe I'm just not white enough, or Canada
doesn't count!

I spend about 15% of my time *working* in China.  Note this is not the
same as travelling, for two reasons.  First, there's no retreating to
the foreign hotel.  You have to be productive in the same environment as
the rest of the people.  Second, even though I come home to Canada, I
also know I will be going back to China.

There is a major difference between racism in North America and China.
In North America the racism is more subtle, while in China its blatant.
In some parts of China, a white person walking on the streets alone
can count on some type of physical attack on a regular basis.  Several
times in a dining hall I've not been served while all the chinese sitting
around have been served.  As far as the waiters were concerned I didn't
belong in China so I wasn't going to be fed.  With this type of racism
you know exactly where its coming from, and where you stand. With the
subtle forms its much harder to tell who your friends really are.

The main point that I'm trying to make is that many groups experience
racism, and each group tends to experience it in a different way.  You
can argue whether one form of racism is worse than another, but in the
end its still racism of some form or another.  So I don't experience
racism the same way that you do, but that doesn't mean I don't experience
it.  You have the same rights to comment on my experiences of racism as
I do to comment on yours.