From: aap@wam.umd.edu (Alberto Adolfo Pinkas)
Subject: Re: Anti-Orthodoxy (was Re: O-C-R debate)
Organization: Workstations at Maryland, University of Maryland, College Park
Date: Sun, 26 Jul 1992 16:29:05 GMT

In article <1992Jul26.090629.24448@midway.uchicago.edu>, rivk@ellis.uchicago.edu (nora gayle rivkis) writes:

> 
> You try telling me things like "this is bad" about my decision to
> stay out of other people's business and then you call *me* judgemental?

Sure. I never said I was not one.

> 
> Your privilege; I think you're in error, of course, but I don't take
> that as relevant to what you choose to do. I just wish you wouldn't
> go around telling other people it's the only way to go, or wahtever.

I did not said it was the only way to go. I said: anyone should marry anyone,
regardless or race, religion, etc, if they are in love.

> 
> >I have never made anybody marry anybody else. 
> 
> No, but you've told them outright that they should.

Seems that you cannot read. I said that they should if that is what they 
wanted.

> 
> >Actally, I oppose marriage as an institution. 
> 
> This is not particularly relevant to the situation, and again comes
> under the heading of pushing your views on the universe. If you don't
> approve of marriage, then don't get married. But quit bugging other
> people about it.

Well, you say that you lnow about the judiciary system, but this makes it
hard to believe.
There is an imposition from society to get married. It is not a metter of
choice, as you present it.
If you get married, you get a lot of advantages. Even the Vice-President
was talking against people having children without being married.
So, I have to fight back for what I believe, when someone is imposing the 
opposite on me.
Too much law studies don't seem to help you. When you do not change
the status qui, you are supporting it. Indirectly, you are imppossing 
on others the status quo.
Someone said: Now it is time not only to understand the world, but also of
changing it.
I oppose racism, and I bug racists. I oppose segregation, and I bug 
segregacionists. I oppose chauvinism, and I bug chouvinists. 
And, I not only bug them, I fight them.

> 
> >However, I hate when people come and say that
> >intermarriage is killing my culture or something like that. 
> 
> I'm not thrilled with it when you oppose every element of a culture that
> comes up and then get high and mighty about 'your' culture, either, so
> we're even.

This is the most stupid line in a long time.
I do not oppose every element of a culture. Ioppose people like you, 
who pretend to be liberal, but still contribute to the segregation of
others.
You see? Now you claim that I oppose everything on my culture. You are 
based on what to say that? Nothing but ignorance and, of course, confusion.
Too much Aristotelian syllogism have not helped too much.
Secular Jews consider that religion and culture are not the same, even if
they are related. I oppose religious standards.

> anything; I base it on legal reasoning taken from seventeen years of
> American and British judicial history along with a heavy dose of math-
> ematical logic. To suggest that this is 'playing it to justify... sins'
> is to admit to knowing absolutely zerio about the law. 

Well, this makes it. 
You judge religious laws based on American an British law?
Now, that is stupid.
Don't you know that the laws of a country are based on the history of that
country? That the American and British laws cannot be separated from the
main religion in both places?
That is call: Historical.
Laws coorespond to a specific moment on history, on a precise place. Based
on the culture and customs of that place.
Can you really reason Jewish religious law based on American law, which is 
also clearly based on a Protestant view of the world?
Now, if after 17 uears of training, you say something like this, I do not want
to know how much you know about mathematical logics!
> 
> Note: say what you like in return; 

Sure I will. Especially if that helps to stop ignorants.

> This may not
> be interpreted to mean that you've won your point 

Oh, no. I just interpret it as you having no more logic arguments, like the 
one using nuclear bombs!/
God, you are smart!.

> 
> 	-Nora

AAP
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish