HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: buckland@ucs.ubc.ca (Tony Buckland)
Newsgroups: bc.general,ubc.general
Subject: Re: Air Care, emmissions testing
Date: 5 Nov 1992 19:18:34 GMT
Organization: University Computing Services, UBC, Canada
Distribution: bc
NNTP-Posting-Host: swiss.ucs.ubc.ca

In article <1992Nov5.090403.6194@ee.ubc.ca> jmorriso@ee.ubc.ca (John Paul Morrison) writes:
>The majority of economists believe that a pollution tax would cut pollution
>quickly and efficiently. Air care is sort of a tax, but not really:
>you either pass and get your insurance, or don't pass, and no insurance.
>Instead of causing a scramble, and windfall profits for mechanics, the
>govt could raise money by charging a sliding scale tax based on the
>emmissions. Ie, a car with x% of NOx or CO or whatever, would have to
>pay $50 or $100 or whatever. More pollution, more tax. 
 
 The government could certainly use more tax revenue; but the object
 of this program is not to raise money, rather it is to reduce
 pollution by keeping excessively polluting vehicles off the road.
 Instead of "more pollution, more tax" it's "more pollution, no
 operate."
 
>Qualifying for insurance (spreading and managing risk
>among a large number of policy holders) has absolutely nothing to do with
>polluting  ...
 
 Perhaps.  But the time at which you pay for permission to operate
 your vehicle is the time at which that permission is made conditional
 on also paying for insurance on it, so why shouldn't it also be the
 time at which that permission is made conditional on the vehicle
 producing no more than a permissible level of pollution?  Look at
 the black box at the top right of your form; first comes annual
 license fee, then insurance.  Then look at the form title; it's
 your owner's certificate of insurance _and_ vehicle license.
 
>I also think it's very inconsistent to be basing the tests on the year of
>the car.  ...
 
 Newer cars are less likely to pollute, so it makes sense to use
 the limited available resources on testing older cars until this
 program gets its collective ass fully in gear.
 
> ... Just look at the black filth pouring out of [various vehicles]
 
 It may look horrible, but the invisible gasses are what is causing
 the most damage to the atmosphere.
Newsgroups: bc.general
From: schuck@fraser.sfu.ca (Bruce Jonathan Schuck)
Subject: Re: Transit Levy on BC-Hydro Bills
Reply-To: Bruce_Schuck@sfu.ca
Organization: Simon Fraser University, Burnaby, B.C., Canada
Date: Tue, 10 Nov 1992 17:02:02 GMT

> & >>> John Paul Morrison writes:

>>      Brad Crockett writes:



>Then stop making people who don't drive to work subsidize the system!
>By using it they will pay for it.
>>

>>> >>Let's make a deal: I'll agree to pay the full share of road costs for 
>>> >>my driving, 
>>
>>> >I sincerely doubt you can afford it.
>>   ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

>The tax revenue disproves this , especially when the cost of roads, bridges,
>repairs etc. is amorttized over 20 years of use.

>$20 / week * 52 weeks = $1040

>divide by two to get government's share: = $520
>multiple by 100,000 cars (a very conservative amount) = 52 million per year.

>$52 million is an extremely low estimate, but is still a fair bit of cash.
>I suspect 100 million or more is a good estimate for BC.

>So obviously "I sincerely doubt you can afford it." is false.

The Coquihalla itself cost 1 billion. 

The interest [without paying back capital costs] is between 50 and 100
million a year at current or recent interest rates -- let alone the
one prevalent at the time.

Thats just one highway -- no maintenance costs added in.

Your gas taxes don't pay the cost at all.



-- 
============================================================================
"We've got to get bigger guns" -- Dick Durkin                  schuck@sfu.ca
============================================================================
Newsgroups: bc.general
From: schuck@fraser.sfu.ca (Bruce Jonathan Schuck)
Subject: Re: Transit Levy on BC-Hydro Bills
Reply-To: Bruce_Schuck@sfu.ca
Organization: Simon Fraser University, Burnaby, B.C., Canada
Date: Wed, 4 Nov 1992 22:31:29 GMT

leffler@physics.ubc.ca (Steve Leffler ) writes:

>leon@unixg.ubc.ca (Leon ter Beek) writes:

>>There is a monthly levy of about $1.90 on everyones Hydro bill to
>>subsidize the BC Transit System.
>>Although, I don't mind contributing to public transit, I feel this levy
>>is not equally sharred by all BC residents (one levy per household).
>>Does anyone know why this levy is on the Hydro bill and not incorporated
>>in some tax?
>  
>    This has always perplexed me, too. Even more annoying is the fact that,
>as of a month or two ago, this levy is considered to be subject to the GST.
>When they decided this was to be the case, they billed me (and everyone else,
>I presume) for the back-GST for the last year and a half. What is odd about 
>this is that if the levy is effectively a tax, it shouldn't be subject to
>the GST: I don't think the Federal Gov't has the authority to tax other
>governments' taxes.

I thinks the courts ruled the Hydro Levy not to be tax,
and therefore GSTable. Greedy bastards.



-- 
============================================================================
"We've got to get bigger guns" -- Dick Durkin                  schuck@sfu.ca
============================================================================
From: martin@netcom.ubc.ca (Marilyn Martin)
Newsgroups: ubc.general,bc.general
Subject: Re: Site names
Date: 13 Nov 1992 20:56:04 GMT
Organization: University of B.C., Network Management Centre
Distribution: bc
NNTP-Posting-Host: teak.netcom.ubc.ca

In article <1992Nov10.070434.14675@ee.ubc.ca> johnt@ee.ubc.ca (john jay tanlimco) writes:
>Someone once posted a site where a list of college site names can
>be found, was that last year?  Well, I lost the site name and the 
>list.  If someone knows where I can obtain such a list, please
>email.  Thanks.

There are files of site names in the ftp/pub/networks directory.  These
files are compiled from a number of sources.  I think that the one you
are referring to is a compilation of e-mail addresses for various
collages.  That one is the file faq.email.addresses and it contains
information on where the master file is kept.  I hope that is of
help to 

        Marilyn Martin                       voice mail: 604-822-5438
        Network Management Centre            fax mail:   604-822-5116
        University of British Columbia       e-mail:     nmc@netcom.ubc.ca
        Vancouver, B.C.  Canada  V6T 1Z2
Newsgroups: bc.general,ubc.general
From: schuck@fraser.sfu.ca (Bruce Jonathan Schuck)
Subject: Re: Air Care, emmissions testing
Reply-To: Bruce_Schuck@sfu.ca
Organization: Simon Fraser University, Burnaby, B.C., Canada
Distribution: bc
Date: Fri, 6 Nov 1992 00:30:13 GMT

arnett@unixg.ubc.ca (Bill Arnett) writes:

>In article <schuck.720989040@sfu.ca> Bruce_Schuck@sfu.ca writes:
>>Some very interesting emissions research is being done in Colorado.
>>The professor who has done this research has also come up with a
>>gadget that can be set up on the road side to measure emissions of
>>cars going by. It uses a TV camera to record license plate #'s and is
>>relatively cheap. It is not as accurate as the Air Care type stations,
>>but that isn't important because the 2 out of 10 cars pollute much
>>more than the other 8.

>This sounds ludicrious to me.  How the heck is this device going to
>measure emissions quickly enough to photograph the offender?   It takes
>time for gases to travel to the sensor!  In my case the tail-pipe is
>on the left side of the car so the gases would have to travel 8 feet
>before they reached the sensor.  The car is going to be travel a *long*
>way before the gases reach the sensor.

The device does not sample the gases the traditional way.
As far as I know it measures the spectrum of the light passing from
one side of the gases to the other -- ie one piece on one side of a
lane of traffic and one piece on the other side.

>Besides this, wind direction, wind speed, and air turbulence would all
>have to factored in in order to decide which car produced the emissions
>and how dispersed the gases were by the time they got to the sensor.
>A certain error factor were be tolerable since an additional test would
>be performed, but I can't beleive that this could do much better than
>50% accuracy.

Even 50% aaccuracy -- I thinks its better -- would be adequate because
the goal is to get the worst offenders off the road. His figures were
something like 10% of the cars produce 90% of the pollution. That
means a really polluting car is produces 10 or more times as much
pollution as a relatively clean car. 50% accuracy is more than
adequate in this case. Who cars if you can measure the pollution of a
car to nth percentile. What we really want is the 1 or 2 cars out of
10 producing most of the pollution.


-- 
============================================================================
"We've got to get bigger guns" -- Dick Durkin                  schuck@sfu.ca
============================================================================
From: arnett@unixg.ubc.ca (Bill Arnett)
Newsgroups: bc.general,ubc.general
Subject: Re: Air Care, emmissions testing
Date: 5 Nov 1992 22:11:48 GMT
Organization: University of British Columbia, Vancouver, B.C., Canada
Distribution: bc
NNTP-Posting-Host: unixg.ubc.ca

In article <1dbmnrINN91l@iskut.ucs.ubc.ca> koichi@unixg.ubc.ca (Koichi J Kishimoto) writes:
>
>jmorriso@ee.ubc.ca (John Paul Morrison)writes:
>Yes, and the stories of blown engines shown on TV recently is worrying.

I haven't seen these stories, but I wasn't bothered by the tests.  They
did *nothing* during the test which wouldn't occur in day to day driving.
I suspect that people just aren't used to *standing* beside a car while
it "travels" at 80km/h.  The RPMs used for testing are well within the
spec range of any vehicle. 

>>Special interests like truckers, farmers, airports, busses etc seem to get
>>off the hook, even though their contribution to the problem is significant.
>
>How about gas lawn mowers (real polluters!) motorcycles, power boats, mills
>etc. etc..

These may cause more pollution per litre of gas, but in the overall picture
their contribution to air polution is very small.  Mills of course aren't
normally grouped with motor vehicles :) and are covered under different
regulations.

Bill.
-- 
Bill Arnett                            Internet: arnett@unixg.ubc.ca
Newsgroups: bc.general
From: kenb@ee.ubc.ca (Ken Buckland)
Subject: Re: Air Care, emissions testing
Organization: University of BC, Electrical Engineering
Distribution: na
Date: Sat, 7 Nov 1992 19:47:28 GMT

vanderby@mprgate.mpr.ca (David Vanderbyl) writes:
> jmorriso@ee.ubc.ca (John Paul Morrison) writes (and draws a fancy picture):
> > vanderby@mprgate.mpr.ca (David Vanderbyl) writes:
> > >(This, incidentally, is why a hole in your muffler cannot help
> > > you pass emissions testing.)
> > 
> > Depending on the shape of the hole, and its position, the exhaust gases
> > could easily, and conceivably create a vacuum, and suck in more air into
> > the hole, thus diluting the exhaust.
> 
> As to this vacuum theory, yes it is conceivable that fresh air may enter
> the system.  However, it is extremely unlikely since the muffle/tailpipe
> create a back pressure in the system.  This is why air pumps are necessary
> for air injection anti-pollution systems, and the engineers who designed
> the car cannot simply strategically place a well shaped hole to achieve
> the desired effect.

I was assured by three different muffler technicians (all from reputable
muffler institutes) that exhaust system holes *do* suck air into the
exhaust.  This might be due to a vortex effect - I don't know.  Further,
the air injection anti-pollution systems you describe normally inject
right near (or at) the exhaust manifold do they not?  At that point the
pressures are much higher (due to higher temperatures and narrower
channels) so air pumps are necessary.  The air must be injected at 
this point because the idea is to promote more complete oxidation
(ie.: CO -> CO2) - something that is facilitated by higher temperatures.

> kenb@ee.ubc.ca (Ken Buckland) writes:
> While it is true that the test probe would pick up the extra air, this
> would result in the tester thinking you car has low emissions, not that
> you have holes in your exhaust.

In fact the testers asserted that I had a hole *before* we actually found
one.  It may have been that my emissions were just too low to be believed,
but they did mumble something about impossible gas mixtures (for an intact
exhaust system).

Ken Buckland
kenb@ee.ubc.ca

Newsgroups: bc.general
From: jmorriso@ee.ubc.ca (John Paul Morrison)
Subject: Re: Transit Levy on BC-Hydro Bills
Organization: University of BC, Electrical Engineering
Date: Sun, 8 Nov 1992 06:10:43 GMT

In article <schuck.720981803@sfu.ca> Bruce_Schuck@sfu.ca writes:
>jmorriso@ee.ubc.ca (John Paul Morrison) writes:
>
>>Because it's an underhanded way to slip in an indirect charge, and 99% of
>>people don't complain?
>
>>things should be fee-for-service, pay for what you get, and get what you pay 
>>for. 
>
>I agree 100% and I hope they introduce Toll roads for all the people
>driving cars and polluting the air.
>

but only on roads that our gasoline and other taxes haven't already paid
for.

>I also hope they up the tuition to the full cost of an education at
>places like UBC. That means a 500% increase.
>

Yes, it would be nice to know how much an education really costs. 
Currently we pay a low, subsidized tuition but after graduation
the taxes I'll  pay will outstrip the value of our education and health system.

So yes, I'll take higher up-front tuition fees if that means my
tax rate goes down to about 15 to 25% when I am working.

>-- 
>============================================================================
>"We've got to get bigger guns" -- Dick Durkin                  schuck@sfu.ca
>============================================================================


-- 
__________________________________________________________________________
 John Paul Morrison                     |  
 University of British Columbia, Canada |  
 Electrical Engineering                 |   .sig file without a cause
 jmorriso@ee.ubc.ca              VE7JPM |  
________________________________________|_________________________________
Newsgroups: bc.general
From: schuck@fraser.sfu.ca (Bruce Jonathan Schuck)
Subject: Re: Transit Levy on BC-Hydro Bills
Reply-To: Bruce_Schuck@sfu.ca
Organization: Simon Fraser University, Burnaby, B.C., Canada
Date: Sun, 8 Nov 1992 17:37:25 GMT

jmorriso@ee.ubc.ca (John Paul Morrison) writes:

>In article <schuck.720981803@sfu.ca> Bruce_Schuck@sfu.ca writes:
>>jmorriso@ee.ubc.ca (John Paul Morrison) writes:
>>
>>>Because it's an underhanded way to slip in an indirect charge, and 99% of
>>>people don't complain?
>>
>>>things should be fee-for-service, pay for what you get, and get what you pay 
>>>for. 
>>
>>I agree 100% and I hope they introduce Toll roads for all the people
>>driving cars and polluting the air.
>>

>but only on roads that our gasoline and other taxes haven't already paid
>for.

Other taxes? Certainly you don't mean to count taxes paid by people
who use public transit?

>>I also hope they up the tuition to the full cost of an education at
>>places like UBC. That means a 500% increase.
>>

>Yes, it would be nice to know how much an education really costs. 
>Currently we pay a low, subsidized tuition but after graduation
>the taxes I'll  pay will outstrip the value of our education 
>and health system.

Maybe. 

>So yes, I'll take higher up-front tuition fees if that means my
>tax rate goes down to about 15 to 25% when I am working.

Your taxes will be high because the Tories offloaded corporate income
taxes onto individual income taxes and it is unlikely to go down.
-- 
============================================================================
"We've got to get bigger guns" -- Dick Durkin                  schuck@sfu.ca
============================================================================
From: news@cs.ubc.ca
Newsgroups: bc.news.stats
Subject: UBC CS News Stats
Date: 8 Nov 1992 03:00:27 -0800
Organization: Computer Science, University of B.C., Vancouver, B.C., Canada
Distribution: bc
NNTP-Posting-Host: cs.ubc.ca

----------------------------------------------
Hostname            	Queued	  Got	 Dups	 Junk	 Ctrl
--------            	 ----	  ---	 ----	 ----	 ----
beaver.cs.washington	 6611	  106	    8	    3	    0
canada              	  705	    0	    0	    0	    0
clipper.uvic.ca     	 1707	    0	    0	    0	    0
cs.sfu.ca           	 8156	    0	    0	    0	    0
destroyer.rs.itd.umi	 1590	 6932	  572	  569	   23
fs1.ee.ubc.ca       	 2607	    8	    0	    0	    0
malin1.mala.bc.ca   	 8518	    0	    0	    0	    0
mammoth.tera.com    	   54	    0	    0	    0	    0
merlin              	   92	    0	    0	    0	    0
mprgate.mpr.ca      	 8154	    1	    0	    0	    0
news-server.csri.tor	   38	 1134	   77	   75	    1
news.uvic.ca        	 8165	    0	    0	    0	    0
news.wimsey.bc.ca   	 7973	  187	   50	   48	    0
news2mail           	  534	    0	    0	    0	    0
newshost.ucs.ubc.ca 	 8424	  103	    2	    2	    1
newsserver.sfu.ca   	 8158	   27	    0	    0	    0
orion.gov.bc.ca     	 6732	    0	    0	    0	    0
scapa.cs.ualberta.ca	 8465	    0	    0	    0	    0
soph.cs.ubc.ca      	 2627	    0	    0	    0	    0
--------            	 ----	  ---	 ----	 ----	 ----
Totals              	89310	 8498	  709	  697	   25

Control:
news-server.csri.toronto.edu 1
destroyer.rs.itd.umich.edu 23
newshost.ucs.ubc.ca 1
----------------------------------------------


UUCP Traffic for ALL userids

Remote     K-Bytes   K-Bytes   K-Bytes  Hours  Hours avCPS AvCPS    #    #
SiteName      Recv      Xmit     Total   Recv   Xmit  Recv  Xmit Recv Xmit
-------- --------- --------- --------- ------ ------ ----- ----- ---- ----
alberta     81.596     0.000    81.596   0.05   0.00   444     0   74    0
bowen        1.100     8.224     9.323   0.00   0.01   157   231    2    8
canada      10.546  1031.736  1042.282   0.01   0.43   411   679   18  124
lios         0.000     1.989     1.989   0.00   0.00     0  1572    0    2
merlin       0.000   139.973   139.973   0.00   0.02     0  1669    0   54
oamc1        0.000   272.201   272.201   0.00   0.05     0  1563    0    2
utai        11.900     0.000    11.900   0.00   0.00  3977     0    6    0

Total active uucp sites:	      7

Total files rec d:	            100
Total files xmit:	            190
Total files:		            290

Total bytes rec d:	         107665
Total bytes xmit:	        1489022
Total bytes:		        1596687
From: news@cs.ubc.ca
Newsgroups: bc.news.stats
Subject: UBC CS News Stats
Date: 11 Nov 1992 04:59:57 -0800
Organization: Computer Science, University of B.C., Vancouver, B.C., Canada
Distribution: bc
NNTP-Posting-Host: cs.ubc.ca

----------------------------------------------
Hostname            	Queued	  Got	 Dups	 Junk	 Ctrl
--------            	 ----	  ---	 ----	 ----	 ----
beaver.cs.washington	15168	  349	    7	    1	    0
canada              	 1624	    0	    0	    0	    0
clipper.uvic.ca     	 3397	    0	    0	    0	    0
cs.sfu.ca           	18521	    0	    0	    0	    0
dempster            	    1	    0	    0	    0	    0
destroyer.rs.itd.umi	 5777	13108	  938	  926	   59
fs1.ee.ubc.ca       	 5891	   10	    0	    0	    0
malin1.mala.bc.ca   	18863	    0	    0	    0	    0
mammoth.tera.com    	   53	    0	    0	    0	    0
merlin              	  121	    0	    0	    0	    0
mprgate.mpr.ca      	18513	    8	    1	    0	    0
news-server.csri.tor	   29	 5016	  293	  287	   20
news.uvic.ca        	18627	    0	    0	    0	    0
news.wimsey.bc.ca   	18411	  143	   11	    8	    2
news2mail           	 1075	    0	    0	    0	    0
newshost.ucs.ubc.ca 	18691	  144	    5	    5	    1
newsserver.sfu.ca   	18612	   49	    2	    2	    0
orion.gov.bc.ca     	15331	    0	    0	    0	    0
scapa.cs.ualberta.ca	18658	    0	    0	    0	    0
soph.cs.ubc.ca      	 5924	    0	    0	    0	    0
--------            	 ----	  ---	 ----	 ----	 ----
Totals              	203287	18827	 1257	 1229	   82

Control:
news.wimsey.bc.ca 2
news-server.csri.toronto.edu 20
destroyer.rs.itd.umich.edu 59
newshost.ucs.ubc.ca 1
mala.bc.ca 1
----------------------------------------------


UUCP Traffic for ALL userids

Remote     K-Bytes   K-Bytes   K-Bytes  Hours  Hours avCPS AvCPS    #    #
SiteName      Recv      Xmit     Total   Recv   Xmit  Recv  Xmit Recv Xmit
-------- --------- --------- --------- ------ ------ ----- ----- ---- ----
alberta    138.564     0.000   138.564   0.09   0.00   442     0  114    0
bowen        0.000    12.106    12.106   0.00   0.02     0   228    0   10
canada      14.833  2032.200  2047.033   0.01   0.82   445   702   30  282
lios         0.000     2.017     2.017   0.00   0.00     0  1542    0    2
merlin      15.437   271.696   287.133   0.01   0.05   474  1550   16   74
oamc1        0.000     2.122     2.122   0.00   0.00     0  1616    0    4
utai        74.752     0.000    74.752   0.01   0.00  2831     0   34    0

Total active uucp sites:	      7

Total files rec d:	            194
Total files xmit:	            372
Total files:		            566

Total bytes rec d:	         249432
Total bytes xmit:	        2375825
Total bytes:		        2625257
From: news@cs.ubc.ca
Newsgroups: bc.news.stats
Subject: UBC CS News Stats
Date: 13 Nov 1992 05:22:03 -0800
Organization: Computer Science, University of B.C., Vancouver, B.C., Canada
Distribution: bc
NNTP-Posting-Host: cs.ubc.ca

----------------------------------------------
Hostname            	Queued	  Got	 Dups	 Junk	 Ctrl
--------            	 ----	  ---	 ----	 ----	 ----
beaver.cs.washington	15034	  608	   14	    5	    1
canada              	 1742	    0	    0	    0	    0
clipper.uvic.ca     	 3366	    0	    0	    0	    0
cs.sfu.ca           	18650	    0	    0	    0	    0
destroyer.rs.itd.umi	10571	 8448	  797	  787	   31
fs1.ee.ubc.ca       	 6006	    2	    0	    0	    0
malin1.mala.bc.ca   	19035	    0	    0	    0	    0
mammoth.tera.com    	   43	    0	    0	    0	    0
maps                	  132	    0	    0	    0	    0
merlin              	  248	    0	    0	    0	    0
mprgate.mpr.ca      	18646	    4	    2	    0	    0
news-server.csri.tor	   31	 9655	  521	  511	   24
news.uvic.ca        	18783	    0	    0	    0	    0
news.wimsey.bc.ca   	18583	   71	   93	   92	    1
news2mail           	 1116	    0	    0	    0	    0
newshost.ucs.ubc.ca 	18773	  230	    6	    6	    3
newsserver.sfu.ca   	18763	   46	    6	    6	    0
orion.gov.bc.ca     	15719	    0	    0	    0	    0
scapa.cs.ualberta.ca	18831	    0	    0	    0	    0
soph.cs.ubc.ca      	 5917	    0	    0	    0	    0
--------            	 ----	  ---	 ----	 ----	 ----
Totals              	209989	19064	 1439	 1407	   60

Control:
news.wimsey.bc.ca 1
beaver.cs.washington.edu 1
news-server.csri.toronto.edu 24
destroyer.rs.itd.umich.edu 31
newshost.ucs.ubc.ca 3
----------------------------------------------


UUCP Traffic for ALL userids

Remote     K-Bytes   K-Bytes   K-Bytes  Hours  Hours avCPS AvCPS    #    #
SiteName      Recv      Xmit     Total   Recv   Xmit  Recv  Xmit Recv Xmit
-------- --------- --------- --------- ------ ------ ----- ----- ---- ----
alberta    261.151     0.000   261.151   0.10   0.00   742     0   92    0
canada      13.043   385.642   398.685   0.02   0.17   197   630   32  200
fivel        1.190     0.000     1.190   0.00   0.00   435     0    2    0
lios         0.000     1.920     1.920   0.00   0.00     0  1819    0    2
merlin      11.657  1878.005  1889.662   0.01   0.35   518  1516   12  192
utai        45.857     0.000    45.857   0.01   0.00  1901     0   26    0

Total active uucp sites:	      6

Total files rec d:	            164
Total files xmit:	            394
Total files:		            558

Total bytes rec d:	         340889
Total bytes xmit:	        2319940
Total bytes:		        2660829