HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
Newsgroups: comp.society
From: samuel@cs.wisc.edu (Samuel Bates)
Subject: Radio Show on Privacy
Organization: University of Wisconsin, Madison -- Computer Sciences Dept.
Date: Wed, 15 Apr 1992 21:32:45 GMT

                    ******** PRIVACY ON THE RADIO ********

                        Where: WORT-FM, 89.9 fm
                        When:  1:00-1:45 pm Thursdays

Tomorrow, April 16th, WORT-FM will be broadcasting the first of a 13-part
series called The Privacy Project, on computers, telecommunications, and
privacy.  Cosponsored by CPSR-Madison and the ACLU of Wisconsin, the series
will discuss such issues as Calling Number ID, e-mail privacy, marketing
databases, 800 and 900 prefix numbers, and much more.  Opinions are sought
from a diverse set of sources:  AT&T, Equifax, Pacific Bell, ACLU, Harvard
Law School, and CPSR, not to mention hackers, crackers, and even kids on
the street.

Tomorrow's show is the introduction to the series.  Starting next week,
after each half-hour episode, WORT will have a local analysis section.
Scott Swanson of CPSR-Madison and Carol Weidel of the ACLU will discuss
the issues as they pertain to Wisconsin and give updates to some of the
legal decisions still pending when the series was produced late in 1991.

                                                        --Samuel Bates
                                                          Chair, CPSR-Madison
Message-Id: <m0lYQpA-000HwhC@heifetz.msen.com>
Subject: Re: Usenet and Archiving of Electronic Journals
Date: Tue, 07 Apr 92 20:47:39 -0400
From: Edward Vielmetti <emv@msen.com>
Newsgroups: comp.society

ah, but one of the hallmarks of a strain of scholarly thought is
that you start to get quoted by other people -- a big string of
references to your own work is hardly a sign of acceptance of this
approach by your peers.  (even if the individual contributions were
reviewed.)

--Ed
Date: Tue, 7 Apr 92 19:30:36 EDT
From: "Stevan Harnad" <harnad@Princeton.EDU>
Message-Id: <9204072330.AA23204@clarity.Princeton.EDU>
Subject: Re: Usenet and Archiving of Electronic Journals
Newsgroups: comp.society

> From: Sterling IMD <root@imd.sterling.com>
> Date: Tue, 7 Apr 92 16:51:55 CDT
>
> I would be interested in your list of 50 that would qualify.
> I would hope that there would
> be a little more to the restrictions (such as no posting) or the net
> will see a potentially large number of anonymous posts from generic
> accounts with no way to trace the offenders.

The message pertained to refereed journals and a few high level
moderated lists, so all posting would be rigorously gated.

> > most of the material on Usenet
> > is not WORTH archiving in perpetuum.
>
> A rather subjective decision and one I would not want to make from a
> general community standpoint...

Peer review is the basis for the decision, the same as in standard
refereed paper journals.

> If you are interested in the NetNews/CD service, either send mail to
> myself or to cdnews@sterling.com.

If this is a commercial service then I think it will not be helpful to
the kinds of mechanisms we are trying to set up, which are
university-based and non-profit.

Stevan Harnad
Message-Id: <m0lYQCb-000HwRC@heifetz.msen.com>
Subject: Re: Usenet and Archiving of Electronic Journals
Date: Tue, 07 Apr 92 20:07:46 -0400
From: Edward Vielmetti <emv@msen.com>
Newsgroups: comp.society

> Peer review is the basis for the decision, the same as in standard
> journals

From earlier discussion, I take it to mean that the standard Usenet
practice of "moderation" doesn't fall into your peer review category,
mostly because there's a single moderator and not a community of peers,
and becuase the reviews and the moderation are hardly anonymous.

> If this is a commercial service then I think it will not be helpful
> to the kinds of mechanisms we are trying to set up, which are
> university-based and non-profit.

Usenet tends to be community-based and self-sustaining; if some people
make a few bucks along the way in order for the whole process to go
forward, that's what it takes.  It remains to be seen whether more
peer-reviewed forums (e.g. comp.sources.reviewed) pop up; given the
costs of coordinating a multiple-reviewer system it may be sufficiently
unwieldy to discourage all but a few.

--Ed
From: mulford@brahms.udel.edu (George Mulford)
Newsgroups: comp.society
Subject: Re: USENET Censorship at Iowa State University
Message-Id: <28767@brahms.udel.edu>
Date: 9 Apr 92 20:33:13 GMT
Organization: University of Delaware


In article <1992Apr4.050354.13778@tssi.com> nolan@tssi.com (Michael Nolan)
 writes:
;
;
; I find the argument that there is a list of those who have requested access
; to the restricted groups specious.  There are likely lists of what books
; I have checked out from the library, and what videotapes I have rented


As a point of reference:

The list of books a reader has checked out is considered confidential
information by librarians of free public libraries.  When a reader took
a gun and shot up some people at random in a mall near my home, the
police investigators visited the library and asked for her loan records.
The librarian refused to release them, cited the relevant (Commonwealth
of Pennsylvania) statute, and made it stick!

--

George W. Mulford                              mulford@brahms.udel.edu
Instructional Technology Center                University of Delaware
Message-Id:  <06APR92.22296018.0155.MUSIC@MARISTB>
Date:        Mon, 06 Apr 92 20:38:39 EST
From:        "John F. McMullen (at Marist)" <KNXD@MARISTB>
Subject: Nanotechnology & Immortality
Newsgroups: comp.society

Ralph Merkle, researcher in nanotechnology at Xerox Palo Alto Research
Center (Xerox PARC) will address a special meeting of the Alcor
Foundation on Sunday, April 28th at 5:00 PM. The subject of his talk
will be "Nanotechnology and Prospects For Immortality".

The meeting will be held at the 72nd Street Studio - 131 West 72nd
Street, New York City. Admission is open to the public at a cost of
$4.00.

Describing the event to me for an article I did on the event, Charles
Platt, science fiction author and a member of Alcor, said "Merkle is
one of the country's foremost experts on nanotechnology and molecular
machines. This is a science of particular interest to those involved in
cryonics as the Alcor Foundation is. Nanotechnology allows the
manipulation of things at the molecular level and provides promise of
being extremely important in the restoration of brain damage that may
be caused by Cryonics' freezing and unfreezing processes."

Cryonics is the process under which people are frozen at the time of
death and unfrozen at a point in time when a cure has been developed for
the fatal illness or accident damage causing death.

Persons wishing further information may contact Charles Platt at
(212) 535-3643.
From: hshubs@eff.org (Howard Shubs)
Subject: Re: I'm not your man.Nor your woman..
Originator: hshubs@eff.org
Organization: Electronic Frontier Foundation
Date: Tue, 17 Mar 1992 17:40:41 GMT

In article <1992Mar17.054531.9932@husc3.harvard.edu> pierce@husc4.harvard.edu (Tim Pierce) writes:
>In article <92076.171113IO81409@MAINE.MAINE.EDU> IO81409@MAINE.MAINE.EDU (Ailsa N.T. Murphy) writes:
>>ever notice that these assholes are always men?
>>i wonder why we never hear from Debbie the gum-chewing
>>homophobic moron like we do from her brother Biff?
>
>Ailsa, you know better than that!  Don't you remember Vicki Goff?
>Don't you remember Susan Forgach with her "homosexuality is equivalent
>to rape" theories?

Ah yes, Susan Forgash.  She of the "one must love one's sexuality"
vacuum skulled "thought".
-- 
Howard S Shubs      hshubs@eff.org      I don't represent the EFF,
The Denim Adept     hshubs@BYTECOSY     but I do agree with them.
Newsgroups: comp.society
From: cmcl2!panix.com!simona@uunet.UU.NET (Simona Nass)
Subject: Re: Nanotechnology & Immortality
Message-Id: <1992Apr8.174435.24313@panix.com>
Date: Wed, 8 Apr 1992 17:44:35 GMT
Organization: PANIX Public Access Unix, NYC

In <06APR92.22296018.0155.MUSIC@MARISTB> KNXD@MARISTB (John F. McMullen (at
 Marist)) writes:

>Ralph Merkle, researcher in nanotechnology at Xerox Palo Alto Research
>Center (Xerox PARC) will address a special meeting of the Alcor
>Foundation on Sunday, April 28th at 5:00 PM. The subject of his talk
>will be "Nanotechnology and Prospects For Immortality".

I think April 28 is a Tuesday. -Simona
--
Disclaimer: I am not an attorney, though I do have an opinion on everything.
     (     simona@panix.com    or    {apple,cmcl2}!panix!simona     )
Newsgroups: comp.society
From: cs4cb3ii@maccs.dcss.mcmaster.ca (Group I)
Subject: Re: USENET Censorship at Iowa State University
Message-Id: <1992Apr6.201903.18335@maccs.dcss.mcmaster.ca>
Organization: Department of Computer Science, McMaster University
Date: Mon, 6 Apr 1992 20:19:03 GMT

In article <1992Apr5.205935.29334@m.cs.uiuc.edu> kadie@herodotus.cs.uiuc.edu
 (Carl M. Kadie) writes:
>If your library is like most, it does not keep a record of the books
>you check out. The importance of this policy was reinforced when the

Sure it does.  Every library I have ever been to has eventually come after
me for my overdue books.  Whether or not this information can be
used, or in what manner it can be used is controlled, but libraries do
at some time, know what books you have.  I would also be willing to bet
that most computerized library systems keep track of your old
records, at least until that particular database record is 'overwritten'
by a new borrower/book record.  Perhaps someone with more knowledge
of computerization in library book checkout could write a comp.risks
article. (?)

Scott G.
cs4cb3ii@maccs.dcss.mcmaster.ca
Newsgroups: comp.society
From: xtjh@sunyit.sunyit.edu (Thomas Hassler)
Subject: Re: USENET Censorship at Iowa State University
Organization: State University of New York -- Institute of Technology
Date: Fri, 10 Apr 1992 14:59:05 GMT

In article <1992Apr6.201903.18335@maccs.dcss.mcmaster.ca>
 cs4cb3ii@maccs.dcss.mcmaster.ca (Group I) writes:
>In article <1992Apr5.205935.29334@m.cs.uiuc.edu> kadie@herodotus.cs.uiuc.edu
> (Carl M. Kadie) writes:
>>If your library is like most, it does not keep a record of the books
>>you check out. The importance of this policy was reinforced when the
>
>Sure it does.  Every library I have ever been to has eventually come after
>me for my overdue books.  Whether or not this information can be
>used, or in what manner it can be used is controlled, but libraries do
>at some time, know what books you have.  I would also be willing to bet
>that most computerized library systems keep track of your old
>records, at least until that particular database record is 'overwritten'
>by a new borrower/book record.  Perhaps someone with more knowledge
>of computerization in library book checkout could write a comp.risks
>article. (?)
>
>Scott G.
>cs4cb3ii@maccs.dcss.mcmaster.ca

I have acquired, installed, modified and otherwise maintained several
automated library systems.  Each of them maintains a linkage between
the patron's identification code and each item they currently have
checked out.  However, when an item is checked back in to the library
the connection between the borrower and the item borrowed is removed,
and no record of this is kept.  However, bear in mind the "Ollie North
Effect," that backup copies of the databases on computers are spun off
to tape.  So if you checked out a book today, the record of that
transaction would be on tonight's backup tape.  If you checked it back
in tomorrow, it would not be on tomorrow night's backup.  The record
on tonight's backup would theoretically be available to anyone who
could/wanted to restore the system to today's database status and
look at the information [this is what happened to Ollie North's electronic
mail.  He thought that once he deleted the messages from his mailbox
they were gone forever.]
From: mhart@blackjack.dt.navy.mil (Michael Hart)
Newsgroups: comp.society
Subject: Re: USENET Censorship at Iowa State University
Date: 10 Apr 92 10:51:14 GMT


In <1992Apr7.192956.6898@m.cs.uiuc.edu> kadie@herodotus.cs.uiuc.edu (Carl M.
 Kadie) writes:

>In article <1992Apr5.205935.29334@m.cs.uiuc.edu>
>kadie@herodotus.cs.uiuc.edu > (Carl M. Kadie) writes:

>>If your library is like most, it does not keep a record of the books
>>you check out.

>I meant to say that if it is like most, it does not keep a record of
>the books you check out *after you return them*. Moreover, no library
>that I know of maintains an explicit list of people-who-read-material-
>that-discusses-sex.

See also my other followup to the thread.

No library that I know of, and I worked for a very large library
system (150 branches) and for a library computer systems vendor,
_ever_ keeps records, logs, or lists of any type of material that
a patron gets.

The other day, I went into my library with my wifes card to see what
she had out, in case any was overdue.  They scanned the barcode,
and would tell me that she had 3 items out, and when they were due,
but would not tell me the titles.

Most libraries will vehemently protect the privacy of their patrons.


--
|   Michael G. Hart                   mhart@blackjack.dt.navy.mil    |
|--------------------------------------------------------------------|
|     You think _I_ speak for the government or the navy?  HAH!      |
| Aviation, computers, quality improvement, Northern Exposure, money |
Xref: sparky comp.society:224 alt.society.civil-liberty:3527
Newsgroups: comp.society,alt.society.civil-liberty
Subject: Re: Removing currency...the effect on societyREAD/NEW
From: allens@yang.earlham.edu (Allen Smith)
Date: 15 Apr 92 19:14:23 EST
Organization: Earlham College, Richmond, Indiana
News-Moderator: Approval required for posting to comp.society

In article <1992Apr10.212549.13920@informix.com>, infmx!.LOCAL!billd@uunet.UU.NE
   T (William Daul) writes:
> I am not sure this is the right place to start this...perhaps it should be
> some political group but, oh well...here goes...
>
> Have people been concerned with the proliferation of point-of-sale
> devices and the long term implications...a cash-less society?  Won't
> this lead to a major loss in privacy?  Are we heading off in this
> direction without complaining?  If people are complaining, who are
> they complaining to?
>
        I have a couple of methods of resisting the trend of traceable
cash (BTW, I believe England had traceable cash (Bank of England Notes) up
until sometime ago (after WWI)). First, I resist using credit whenever
possible (I only own a credit card (max limit 500$) because of the
possibility of emergencies)). Second, I withdraw cash from the bank and
use it instead of checks.
        Admittedly, I'm not always consistent in this; if I forget to go
to the bank, I'll use a check. But I try.
        -Allen
Newsgroups: comp.society
From: infmx!.LOCAL!billd@uunet.UU.NET (William Daul)
Subject: Removing currency...the effect on society
Organization: Informix Software, Inc.
Date: Fri, 10 Apr 92 21:25:49 GMT

I am not sure this is the right place to start this...perhaps it should be
some political group but, oh well...here goes...

Have people been concerned with the proliferation of point-of-sale
devices and the long term implications...a cash-less society?  Won't
this lead to a major loss in privacy?  Are we heading off in this
direction without complaining?  If people are complaining, who are
they complaining to?

--Bill

--
%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%
 William Daul             Advanced Support      INFORMIX SOFTWARE INC.
 4100 Bohannon Dr.        (415) 926-6488 - wk
 Menlo Park, CA. 94025    uunet!infmx!billd  or  billd@informix.com
From: au329@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Ronda Hauben)
Subject: Amateur Computerist Newsletter
Organization: Case Western Reserve University, Cleveland, OH (USA)
Date: Sat, 11 Apr 92 03:39:33 GMT
Newsgroups: comp.society


  The Winter/Spring 1992 issue of the Amateur Computerist
Newsletter is now available. The newsletter has just begun
its 5th year of publication. Articles in this issue include:
   Computers vrs Plant Closures
   Amateur Computerist Index
   Problem Corner
   Union Forever
   Letter to the Editor
   Letters to Amateur Computerist
   Letter to Editor of Utne Reader
   Review from the uPeripheral
   Tribute - Modern Computer Pioneer (Grace Hopper)
   Interview with Staff Member
   One Line Program
   Computers for the People: A History Part III
   Pascal Program

  For information write or send email .

 Also, we are planning to have some articles on Usenet News
for the next issue and would welcome submissions of articles. A free issue
of the newsletter is available for any article submitted for
publication.
                      for the Amateur Computerist
                      Ronda Hauben

--
Ronda Hauben  Amateur Computerist Newsletter
P.O. Box 4344   other email addr:ae547@yfn.ysu.edu
Dearborn, MI 48126
Date: Tue, 7 Apr 92 23:34:17 EDT
From: "Stevan Harnad" <harnad@Princeton.EDU>
Message-Id: <9204080334.AA24486@clarity.Princeton.EDU>
Subject: Usenet Archive
Newsgroups: comp.society

Date: Tue, 7 Apr 92 20:56:36 -0400
From: tale@uunet.uu.net (David C Lawrence)
To: "Stevan Harnad" <harnad@Princeton.EDU>
Cc: "Publishing E-Journals : Publishing, Archiving, and Access"
        <VPIEJ-L@VTVM1.BITNET>

 > > Chuck Bacon [crtb@HELIX.NIH.GOV] wrote:
 > >
 > > >>"Usenet is an anarchic system for remote access to all kinds of rapidly
 > > >>changing data. It was not designed for archival use. There is almost
 > > >>nothing in even the deepest and oldest archives on Uunet, for instance,
 > > >>which is more than ten years old.
 > > >>
 > > >>"Involvement by the management of some of the archiving companies, like
 > > >>Uunet, would do the library community some good (would somebody go but
 > > >>Rick Adams).  Electronic archiving should beocme an important industry;
 > > >>it is not, at present . The safest and best archives still seem to be
 > > >>on paper and film."

The archivists at UUNET are definitely interested in building a better
archive.  Coincidentally, today I suggested that we should attend some
sort of library seminars to learn more about good categorisation.  At
some point I am sure I (on behalf of the company or not) will be
attending such a thing to the end of making our archives better.

It is worth pointing out that this isn't as simple a matter as
attempting to implement an existing library categorisation scheme like
the Dewey Decimal System.  There is a distinct bias in the sort of
archive service which UUNET provides, and such a system does not
adequately help the management and use of that service.

David Lawrence                                          uunet archives
From: rommel@Informatik.TU-Muenchen.DE (Kai-Uwe Rommel)
Subject: Re: Future of fax?
Keywords: fax,e-mail,networks
Organization: Technische Universitaet Muenchen, Germany
Date: Mon, 6 Apr 1992 06:56:45 GMT

In article <1992Apr05.164633.5944@uuisis.isis.org> doug@uuisis.isis.org (Doug Thompson) writes:
>FAX is expensive, inefficient (of human and machine resources) and slow
>compared to e-mail. It is also of relatively limited utility.
..
>We are able to install an inter-contientnal e-mail system in any office
>that has phones, PCs, and electricity for a cost that is lower than the
>current annual FAX bill in most cases. We have done this in ten
>countries in the Third World. Operating costs are so low that the entire
>investment by the customer is recouped in six to 18 months. After that
>they are saving money in a big way. Most users prefer machine-readable
>and error free ASCII data over FAX. E-mail can also transmit binaries -
>like spreadsheet worksheets or Word Processor proprietary files, or
>executable code. This is a MAJOR asset.

Well, you must live in a much different world. Although I like e-mail
too, I can only use University ressources at the moment. I HAVE an UUCP
link at home, but it is *slow*. E-mail to someone else in Germany takes
one to two days while FAX goes within minutes.

As much as I like e-mail and would like to see it on every desk, this
is not yet the case, at least not in Europe. Rarely do companies have
e-mail, mostly only those who grew out of universities or those who are
subsidiaries of US companies.

I *can* get access to Internet directly, but only via two universities
in Germany (as far as I know) and they charge about DM 0.40 per kilobyte
(about $0.25 per k). This is far too expensive to have a 0.5MB mail
amount per month as a single individual (I'm a consultant). In addition,
you need to link to these universities via modem. Both would be long
distance calls for me, which is DM 0.23 per 42 seconds at night and per
21 seconds during business hours.

I gues we will have to wait for ISDN at least, to have e-mail become
wider available here.

Kai Uwe Rommel

/* Kai Uwe Rommel --- rommel@informatik.tu-muenchen.de */

DOS ... is still a real mode only non-reentrant interrupt
handler, and always will be.                -Russell Williams

Newsgroups: comp.society.futures,alt.fax
From: doug@uuisis.isis.org (Doug Thompson)
Subject: Re: Future of fax?
Organization: International Shared Information Service (Ottawa)
Date: Tue, 14 Apr 92 04:11:36 GMT

callahan@itr.wa.com (John Callahan) writes:

> I am optimistic that the advent of multimedia computing may provide the
> integrated communication medium that I would like to see.  When cheap
> scanners are part of every computer system, it will be easy to combine
> scanned immages (i.e. a documents, magazine article, copies of ads or brochur
> with digitally originated text and images.  With that level of convenience,
> fax machines will begin to gather dust. 

That's the word I'm looking for: multi-media! Thanks. Yeah, when you
think about it, a FAX machine is a scanner, a digitizer, and a modem.
If you just take the part that makes a digital representation of the
image - (i.e., a computer file) and then send that file via a 'proper'
network, you achieve quite a bit of economy in contrast with shipping
that same data over the modem.

Now most FAXes start with typed text, and most typed text starts on a
computer these days. Since e-mailing the text typed in a Word Processor
is hugely cheaper than FAXing a picture of the typed text . . . well it
follows that where it is possible and convenient to do that, people will
do that.

Then there is the question of all the things that e-mail can do that FAX
can't. For instance, I *could*, theoretically, find out the FAX number
of everyone who reads this newsgroup. And I could print out this article
and FAX it to you all. Really, I bet I could actually do that! At least
to those of you who *have* FAX numbers.

Would you want your netnews FAXed to you?

=Doug

----------------------------------------------------------------------
UUCP: uunet.ca!uuisis.isis.org!doug                Voice: 613-722-4724
DNS:  doug@uuisis.isis.org, doug@uuisis.UUCP, doug@isishq.fidonet.org
                      SKAN Communications Inc
      POST: P.0. Box 3041, Stn C., Ottawa, K1Y 4J3, CANADA 
FAX: "Just say no"
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Xref: sparky comp.society.futures:211 alt.fax:28