HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: grumpy@jpradley.jpr.com (Jeff Markel)
Subject: NT support for Win3.x & DOS to be strictly limited
Organization: Unix in NYC
Date: Mon, 27 Jul 1992 17:22:07 GMT

Today's (7/27) issue of PC Week has as its lead front page article a story
headlined "Win NT Limits Support For DOS, Win 3.1 Apps".

The gist of the article is that Microsoft has stated its intention to focus 
their efforts on "major" DOS and Win apps. NT, they continue, will not
support DOS device drivers in VDMs.

They quote Bob Muglia, MS director of NT development, as saying:
"We'll look at what are the top 100 Windows applications and the top 100 DOS
applications, and focus on those rather than on those that haven't sold as
well..."

The article goes on to say that NT also will not support video modes in VDMs
that is not also supported in native NT.  I.e., if there aren't any NT drivers
for a particular device, you cannot use that device.

              ============================================

Well - looks like OS/2 is the winner here - I can use my Scanman quite 
happily in a VDM, and I can run SVGA apps under DOS, but won't be able to
do either under NT.  Guess which system I'M sticking with?
 
I am also wondering who picks those "top" apps, and how many will be
Microsloth products.  What are the odds that MS will put much effort in
getting BC++ or 123 or WP running when they could "better" spend the time 
getting Excel and C7 and Word running instead?

                        Jeff Markel

Jeffrey Markel | uucp:     jpradley!argos!markel   | Argos Computer Systems Inc
KD2HN          | internet: grumpy@jpradley.jpr.com | 110 W. 32nd Street 
(212)594-5400  | amprnet:  kd2hn@kd2hn.ampr.org    | New York, NY 10001
===============================================================================
	The New World Order is ... "Shoot to kill!"
===============================================================================
From: xtifr@netcom.com (Chris Waters)
Newsgroups: comp.os.os2.advocacy
Subject: Re: New version of DOS coming out? (NOOO!! Anything but *that*!)
Date: 28 Jul 92 19:06:34 GMT
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services  (408 241-9760 guest)

In <1992Jul28.153134.11068@twisto.eng.hou.compaq.com> darylb@sword.eng.hou.compaq.com (Daryl Biberdorf) writes:

>I wonder which particular end-user needs they're talking about?  Maybe 
>they'll finally lose that ridiculous 128-character PATH size limit.

Um, in the interests of fairness:

1.  DOS does *not* have a 128 character PATH limit.  What it has is a
128 character input line at the prompt.  There are plenty of programs
around that will let you edit and extend your path.  What there also are
is *programs* that cough and gag if the PATH is over 128 characters. 
These programs are, IMO, seriously flawed, but there they are.  Hardly
MS's fault.

2.  Contrariwise, I can't imagine why anyone would need more than 80
characters for PATH.  PATH=/bin:/usr/bin:/usr/local/bin is sufficient
for much larger, more powerful systems.  I have an opinion of people who
complain about only being able to have 128 characters in their path, but
I'm far too polite to express that opinion here.  :-)

Chris "Just using OS/2 'cause it's cheaper than a home UNIX" Waters
-- 
Chris Waters    | the insane don't | NOBODY for President!
xtifr@netcom.COM| need disclaimers | Because Nobody's perfect!!
Newsgroups: comp.os.os2.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy,comp.sys.acorn,comp.sys.mac.misc,comp.sys.ibm.pc.misc
From: jyoung@nyx.cs.du.edu (Jeff Young)
Subject: Re: New MultiTOS PC (Atari Falcon)
Organization: Nyx, Public Access Unix at U. of Denver Math/CS dept.
Date: Sat, 25 Jul 92 20:51:14 GMT

In article <1992Jul16.233302.15441@cs.aukuni.ac.nz> jwil1@cs.aukuni.ac.nz (TMOTA) writes:
>>NEXT OS might be ported to Falcons!!!  So all the best operating systemes
>>in the world can run on Atari Falcons.
>
>Gosh! Remind me to buy one in 1997 when these wonderful things actually
>become available!

Atari is releasing Falcon '030 at German Atari show (august 21-21)
so you can be reminded less than ONE month!!

>
>No, actually, I'll just wait until there is a Falcon emulator for a decent
>machine...

Since one developer said very fast '040 can be put in Falcon for low
cost you will have to wait loong time!  No sense emulating Falcon '030
because price is only $700-900!!


Newsgroups: comp.os.os2.advocacy
From: kcurtis@inthehat.engin.umich.edu (Keith Curtis)
Subject: Re: Impressions of the July NT Release
Date: Wed, 22 Jul 92 20:10:35 EDT
Organization: University of Michigan Engineering, Ann Arbor
Keywords: NT
Originator: kcurtis@inthehat.engin.umich.edu


>I'd say you've got bigger problems with your machine than NT.  I installed 
>NT on a 386-33 with only 8 Meg, and it runs about the same as OS/2 2.0, except
>for the size of the paging file.


I'm comparing NT to Windows 3.1.

I load up telix.  the screen updates and the communication are way too slow.  Sometimes it will take 5 seconds or more before what I type appears on the screen.

The Win-16 apps probably run at about the speed of a 286, not an 8086.  I can't speak for OS/2, but it is not nearly as fast as Win3.1. I was able to format a floppy, though, without slowing my system down.
From: ccusekh@prism.gatech.EDU (Kevin Hodge)
Newsgroups: comp.os.os2.advocacy
Subject: Re: Dvorak next to quit?
Date: 24 Jul 92 21:35:24 GMT
Organization: Georgia Institute of Technology

In article <6wgFoB4w164w@dvss.UUCP> dvss!jtroy@udel.edu (Jay Troy) writes:
>
>
>
>Anyone see the Dvorak column in the August '92 PC Mag?  Something must be
>seriously wrong!!!  He raves about OS/2 2.0.  I just don't get it anymore.

Actually, I think it's pretty simple.  He installed OS/2 on his machine
and then he tried it.  That done, there was little else he could do but
sing its praises.  Wouldn't it be interesting if more journalists were
to take such a radical approach as to actually try the product?

-- 
Kevin A. Hodge                |   "I'll show you a life of the mind!"
Engineering Psychology        |            Madman Mundt
Georgia Tech                  |
Newsgroups: comp.os.os2.advocacy,comp.os.os2.misc,comp.os.os2.apps
From: exujlg@exu.ericsson.se (Jon L. Gauthier)
Subject: Re: The Ultimate OS/2 FTP Source
Keywords: FTP, OS/2, FREE, SOFTWARE
Organization: Ericsson Network Systems, Inc.
Date: Thu, 23 Jul 1992 20:21:09 GMT

In article <1992Jul23.113237.24621@actrix.gen.nz> Steve.Withers@bbs.actrix.gen.nz writes:
>From: Steve.Withers@bbs.actrix.gen.nz
>Subject: Re: The Ultimate OS/2 FTP Source
>Date: Thu, 23 Jul 1992 11:32:37 GMT
>Keywords: FTP, OS/2, FREE, SOFTWARE

>In article <exujlg.113.0@exu.ericsson.se> exujlg@exu.ericsson.se (Jon L. Gauthier) writes:
>> 
>> I've checked it out (albeit a few days ago, and it is a new system) and it
>> was, to be kind, anemic.  ftp-os2 (hobbes) has FAR more files, new patches,
>> etc.  I'll check Watson again, just to make sure!

>You might be expecting too much. The IBM FTP site is the authoritative source
>for OS/2 updates and info. I can't see it being a shareware collection point.
>They have probably set it up to use for distributing the upcoming CSD via
>Internet.I am happy they even have the facility. Having called the IBM NCS BBS
>a few times at $3.00/minute, I am much happier FTPing for free.
> 
>Comments?


>Steve
>-- 
>Steve Withers - Wellington, New Zealand | "But the glory kept shining
>Steve.Withers@bbs.actrix.gen.nz         |  and bright in my eyes, 
>withers_s@kosmos.wcc.govt.nz            |  And the stars going round in 
>**** Happy user of OS/2 v2!! ****       |  my head." R. L. S.


Not that I am expecting too much, it's just that the original poster's 
message gave me the impression that he hasn't seen what's available on
ftp-os2, since he referred to Watson as the 'ULTIMATE OS/2 FTP SITE' (at
least I think those were his exact words).

Anyway, it seems that ftp-os2 has (or had) more of the latest patches.  I
don't mean to shoot down Watson, I just think it will take a little time
before it gets up to speed.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Jon L. Gauthier                                 Ericsson Network Systems, Inc
EXU/IS/TP Systems Programmer                                  P.O. Box 833875
+1 214 997-0157                                     Richardson, TX 75083-3875

Disclaimer:  "My opinions are my own - my employer would take the 5th on
             everything I say."  Surely it's been said before!...
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: ghenniga@NMSU.Edu
Subject: Re: New version of DOS coming out? (NOOO!! Anything but *that*!)
Reply-To: ghenniga@NMSU.Edu
Organization: New Mexico State University - Electromagnetics Group
	<1992Jul29.012627.19901@tamsun.tamu.edu>
Date: Wed, 29 Jul 1992 21:14:03 GMT


In article <33mm!zf.xtifr@netcom.com> xtifr@netcom.com (Chris Waters)
writes:
(Stuff deleted)
>2.  Contrariwise, I can't imagine why anyone would need more than 80
>characters for PATH.  PATH=/bin:/usr/bin:/usr/local/bin is sufficient
>for much larger, more powerful systems.  I have an opinion of people who
>complain about only being able to have 128 characters in their path, but
>I'm far too polite to express that opinion here.  :-)

	I have an opinon about people with useless opinons but that's for
another group!:)

	I'd love to have a file tree identical to Unix but that's just not
realistic in the real PC world. Other than the point Daryl made about no
logical links there is one MAJOR problem, I have yet to see a PC set up the
same as another (excluding large site installations). This is not true of
most Unix installations which have a nice logical order to there file
trees. Everybody sets up their file structure the way they like it on their
own PC, which I personally like.
	Another thing is I can't count the number of times I've downloaded
software and then decided I didn't like so I wiped it out, not an easy
thing to do when all the files are in a common subdirectory tree, a very
easy thing to do if all the files associated with a particular software
package are in a specific subdirectory.
	Finally and most importantly I haven't yet seen a software
"standard" for file placement that comes close to Unix. I remember in my
bad ole DOS days I tried to get WordPerfect and DrawPerfect to coexist in
the same subdirectory, what a joke! They had files with the same name but
different functionality which made it impossible to put the two in the same
subdirectory, and this was from a single company! Can you imagine what
happens when you install software from five different companies!! I can
think of one quick example MS Fortran and GNU GCC have the same OS/2
library name, os2.lib, think they're the same?!


Just my 1.5cents,
Gary Hennigan
+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=++=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=
+= PhD Student, Computational Electromagnetics  | Member: Utilitarian  +=
+= New Mexico State University                  | .signature club      +=
+= Phone: (505)646-4808                          ----------------------+=
+= email: ghenniga@NMSU.Edu                                            +=
From: thg@cam-orl.co.uk (Tim Glauert)
Newsgroups: comp.os.os2.advocacy
Subject: Re: IBM vs. MS development kit prices?
Date: 23 Jul 92 08:30:29 GMT

In article <22JUL199216591556@lims01.lerc.nasa.gov>, scdorcy@lims01.lerc.nasa.gov (JAMES DORCEY) writes:
|> Hey, that's great.  Instead of paying $XXX retail or $YYY as an upgrade 
|> from someone else's C++, I can get MSC/C++ 7.0 for $69. Hell, for that 
|> price, I won't even worry about loading the pre-beta version of NT, I'll 
|> just load 7.0.

That's MSC/C++ for NT we're talking about, so you have to load NT to run it.

|> Either that or just get the $69 SDK, put it on the shelf, 
|> and get the full blown NT when released for free (an estimated $500 to $999 
|> value).
|> 
|> What's wrong with this picture?

You need a CD-ROM drive and you don't get any paper docs, but otherwise it's a
great deal.

See comp.os.windows.programmer.win32 for a previous discussion of this.
From: "bill dehaan" <bill.dehaan@canrem.com>
Newsgroups: comp.os.os2.advocacy
Subject: hardware requirements
Date: 29 Jul 92 19:29:44 EST
Reply-To: "bill dehaan" <bill.dehaan@canrem.com>
Distribution: comp
Organization: Canada Remote Systems

In message <22JUL199217583215@lims01.lerc.nasa.gov>, James Dorcey
writes:

JD>When I went from DOS/Windows 3.1 to OS/2 2.0, it was almost a wash as far
JD>as hard disk use, since I deleted the following items:

JD>Windows 3.1
JD>DR-DOS 6.0
JD>QEMM 386
JD>Desqview 386 (& applets)
JD>Most of PCTOOLS 7.1

Funny, this is  almost my exact  pre-OS/2 setup. I  keep DRDOS/QEMM, but
I've deleted PC Tools (and then re-installed CPBACKUP). Unfortunately, I
still need DOS to run my CMS tape drive (sigh). Other than that, I  find
that I use the DOS stuff less and less. I might even delete the DV if  I
ever need the space (although I hope to never be so desperate that  half
a meg  makes that  big a  difference). Here's  hoping for  a version  of
Stacker for OS/2 soon...

----------------------------------+-----------------------------------------
Deus Ex Machina                   | Internet:   bill.dehaan@rose.com
Software Consulting and Gator Pit | I'm a brain in a vat. What about you?
----------------------------------+-----------------------------------------
---
  SLMR 2.1a  Scotty! Beam me AUGGGG!!!! b~ NO CARRIER
--
Canada Remote Systems  - Toronto, Ontario/Detroit, MI
World's Largest PCBOARD System - 416-629-7000/629-7044
Newsgroups: comp.os.os2.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy
From: lai@seas.gwu.edu (William Y. Lai)
Subject: Re: Origins of IBM / Microsoft rift
Organization: George Washington University
Date: Wed, 29 Jul 1992 06:58:21 GMT

In article <1992Jul25.005338.4298@microsoft.com> gordonl@microsoft.com (Gordon Letwin) writes:
>>If the released projections from IBM are correct, that should be
>>1Q93, sort of a New Years Resolution...
>
>The key phrase here is "if the released projections...are correct".
>The statements IBM makes to the press about the # of copies sold don't
>match their royalty statements to us, not by a very large factor.
>This is not just a matter of closing dates on the statements; even
>correcting for that there is no match.
>
>It's my personal opinion that this is one of the reasons that IBM has gone
>out of it's way to start a pissing match between IBM and Microsoft.  Then
>IBM can say anything that they want for sales figures and if Microsoft
>says that it doesn't agree with our royalty statement then IBM hopes that
>some people will think that Microsoft is just lying because of all the bad
>blood.
>
>Microsoft will start developing for OS/2 when there are close to 2 million
>USERS of OS/2, not just when IBM starts to claim that figure, or not
 ^^^^^
 ^^^^^
>just when 2 million bundled installs have been done.  Obviously our
>apps group, like any other software company, cares about the number of
>potential customers for the product, not the real or imaginary count
>of cardboard boxes that have been printed.
>
>So IBM can say what it wants about OS/2 numbers; if they're playing games
>this will become clear to ISVs, who watch the customer demand curve,
>over the next year or two.  You won't see any major articles saying
>"IBM fibbed"; you'll just see small articles saying that ISVs are
>decommitting because of "disappointing sales".  That's how you'll know.
>
>	gordon letwin
>	not speaking for microsoft


Geez Gordon, since when did Microsoft start to count by units being USED,
rather than units SHIPPED?  It has always been Microsoft's accounting policy to
count units sold as they leave the factory/installed, not units USED, no?

Let's at least agree not to have double standards in accounting, if Microsoft's
apps group is indeed "unbiased."

And for that matter, can you prove that there are 2 million copies of Windows
being USED?  And how do you define used?  Installed?  Used intermittently?
Daily?

Let's be honest here, if Microsoft's apps group does not want to lend a hand
to the success of OS/2, just come out and say so.  I, like most users, can
understand MS for not developing for a competing platform.  And given MS's
clout, it might just work.  In that case, IBM has nobody to blame but them-
selves for not drumming up enough apps to support OS/2.  But please, MS,
don't insult us users' intelligence with these BS.  Fight, MS, is fine, but
weaseling is not.


IMHO, of course.


-- 
email: lai@seas.gwu.edu | "I want to do everything.  I want to have everything.
Dept. of Electrical Eng.|  I have a wonderful, wonderful life.  But there's so
George Washington Univ. |  much more out there.  Do I have it all?  Yes.  Do I
Washington, D.C.        |  want more?  Yeah, sure."     -Demi Moore
From: dvss!jtroy@udel.edu (Jay Troy)
Newsgroups: comp.os.os2.advocacy
Subject: Dvorak next to quit?
Date: Fri, 24 Jul 92 13:54:16 EDT
Organization: Delaware Valley Solution Systems, Inc.




Anyone see the Dvorak column in the August '92 PC Mag?  Something must be
seriously wrong!!!  He raves about OS/2 2.0.  I just don't get it anymore.



 Jay Troy        Delaware Valley Solution Systems, Inc.
                 Computing Solutions for Business and Industry
                 P.O. Box 190 // Claymont, DE 19703 // (302)798-DVSS
                 Internet: ...!udel.edu!dvss!jtroy (jtroy@dvss.UUCP)
--
Xref: sparky comp.os.os2.advocacy:3109 comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy:1498 comp.sys.acorn:7993
From: drxmann@ccwf.cc.utexas.edu (Dustin R. Christmann)
Newsgroups: comp.os.os2.advocacy
Subject: Re: Paid Microsoft employees
Date: 23 Jul 92 06:40:55 GMT
Organization: The University of Texas at Austin, Austin TX

In article <1992Jul21.193529.4530@njitgw.njit.edu> dic5340@hertz.njit.edu (David Charlap) writes:
>>     I'll assert that your commute is longer than most.  It six times
>>longer than mine.  Not that this makes much of a difference.
>
>Neat.  Is this just something typical of the Northwest, or is it
>Microsoft that gets its emplyees houses near the plant?  In Northern
>New Jersey, a 20-mile commute is common.  Many commute 40 or 50 miles
>to work each day.  The "benefit" of living in the suburbs.  After
>counting traffic jams during the rush hours, a 30-minute commute isn't
>unusual at all.

No, it isn't typical of the NW, just any place that isn't a megalopolis. :-)
Seriously, a 30-minute isn't uncommon in Houston (2-3 million metro population)
but in thirty minutes you can go from well north of Austin (600-700 thousand
metro population) to well south of town.  And Austin is arguably the #2 high
tech area in the US, behind Silicon Valley, earning it the nickname Silicon
Prairie.

[We now return you to comp.os.os2.advocacy.gordon.letwin.rant.and.rave.] :-)

-- 
Thanx,			|   Team OS/2	| Internet: drxmann@ccwf.cc.utexas.edu
Dustin R. Christmann	| (I was there) | Bitnet: DRXMANN@UTXVM
  Editor-in-chief of the ARAPOUT: All the news that is fit to print...NOT!
	Alpha Rho Chapter - Alpha Phi Omega - The University of Texas
"My grandmother started walking five miles a day when she was 60.  She's 93 to-
day -- and we don't know where the hell she is."	-- Ellen DeGeneres
Newsgroups: comp.os.os2.advocacy,comp.os.os2.misc,comp.os.os2.apps
From: exujlg@exu.ericsson.se (Jon L. Gauthier)
Subject: Re: The Ultimate OS/2 FTP Source
Keywords: FTP, OS/2, FREE, SOFTWARE
Organization: Ericsson Network Systems, Inc.
Date: Wed, 22 Jul 1992 17:35:08 GMT

In article <Jul.21.20.50.06.1992.7441@pilot.njin.net> johnt@pilot.njin.net (John Thiruvathukal) writes:
>From: johnt@pilot.njin.net (John Thiruvathukal)
>Subject: The Ultimate OS/2 FTP Source
>Keywords: FTP, OS/2, FREE, SOFTWARE
>Date: 22 Jul 92 00:50:07 GMT


>I'v noticed that a lot of people on this and other OS/2 forums have
>either asked for or have provided sources for OS/2 FTP goodies.

>To help you out with what should be the final time this question is
>answered or asked, I have stubbled upon probably the best anonymous
>FTP: the one run by IBM itself!!

>Wow!! How do I access it you ask??

>The source is : SOFTWARE.WATSON.IBM.COM  and look into the pub\os2\
>directory.  There are also other goodies for other IBM os's like AIX.

>This is probably the best source as it is likely to get the latest
>doodads and bug fixes FIRST!

>I'm sure many of you already have heard about it but just kept a lid
>on it.

>George Thiruvathukal

I've checked it out (albeit a few days ago, and it is a new system) and it
was, to be kind, anemic.  ftp-os2 (hobbes) has FAR more files, new patches,
etc.  I'll check Watson again, just to make sure!

Regards,
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Jon L. Gauthier                                 Ericsson Network Systems, Inc
EXU/IS/TP Systems Programmer                                  P.O. Box 833875
+1 214 997-0157                                     Richardson, TX 75083-3875

Disclaimer:  "My opinions are my own - my employer would take the 5th on
             everything I say."  Surely it's been said before!...
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Newsgroups: comp.os.os2.advocacy
From: pvonk@scott.skidmore.edu (Pierre VonKaenel)
Subject: PC Week dumps on NT
Organization: Skidmore College, Saratoga Springs NY, 12866
Date: Wed, 29 Jul 1992 13:31:18 GMT

Someone recently posted a description of the latest PC Week's article
on NT and how it won't run all DOS and Windows programs.  As I read
through the magazine, I was amazed to find article after article
dumping on NT or raising doubts about its capabilities in the initial
release.
Talk about an about face! 



-- 
Pierre von Kaenel	| Skidmore College	     | pvonk@scott.skidmore.edu
Math & CS Dept.		| Saratoga Springs, NY 12866 | (518)584-5000 Ext 2391
When asked his position on euthanasia, our local state rep. responded:
"I support youth all over the world."
From: scdorcy@lims01.lerc.nasa.gov (JAMES DORCEY)
Newsgroups: comp.os.os2.advocacy
Subject: Re: Origins of IBM / Microsoft rift
Date: 31 Jul 92 15:00:00 GMT
Organization: NASA Lewis Research Center
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41

In article <1992Jul30.161639.5706@microsoft.com>, gordonl@microsoft.com 
(Gordon Letwin) writes...

>    2) OS/2 runs windows applications.  I hear every day how well it
>    	does so.  So who in their right minds will write apps for
>    	OS/2 PM - and only run on OS/2 - when they could write apps
>    	for Windows and run on BOTH platforms?

Based on this rationale, why write applications for Windows if Windows will run 
DOS applications?  That way the same app could be run from DOS, DOS+Windows,
and OS/2.  Or are you saying that the OS/2 PM does not give the user 
anything that Windows doesn't.

JD 
Xref: sparky comp.os.os2.advocacy:3053 comp.os.os2.misc:25082 comp.os.os2.apps:4648
From: johnt@pilot.njin.net (John Thiruvathukal)
Newsgroups: comp.os.os2.advocacy,comp.os.os2.misc,comp.os.os2.apps
Subject: The Ultimate OS/2 FTP Source
Keywords: FTP, OS/2, FREE, SOFTWARE
Date: 22 Jul 92 00:50:07 GMT
Followup-To: comp.os.os2.advocacy
Organization: Rutgers Univ., New Brunswick, N.J.


I'v noticed that a lot of people on this and other OS/2 forums have
either asked for or have provided sources for OS/2 FTP goodies.

To help you out with what should be the final time this question is
answered or asked, I have stubbled upon probably the best anonymous
FTP: the one run by IBM itself!!

Wow!! How do I access it you ask??

The source is : SOFTWARE.WATSON.IBM.COM  and look into the pub\os2\
directory.  There are also other goodies for other IBM os's like AIX.

This is probably the best source as it is likely to get the latest
doodads and bug fixes FIRST!

I'm sure many of you already have heard about it but just kept a lid
on it.

George Thiruvathukal
Newsgroups: comp.os.os2.advocacy,comp.os.os2.programming