HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: sew@philabs.philips.com (Scott E. Wakeman)
Subject: Re: Black Rain conversion
Originator: sew@condor
Reply-To: sew@philabs.philips.com (Scott E. Wakeman)
Organization: Philips Laboratories, Briarcliff, NY 10510
Date: Wed, 7 Oct 1992 13:05:28 GMT


In article <1992Oct6.155308.24510@ifi.unizh.ch>, kunz@avalon.physik.unizh.ch (kunz peter) writes:
|> In article <1992Oct2.174554.9617@philabs.philips.com> sew@philabs.philips.com (Scott E. Wakeman) writes:
|> >|> >
|> >|> >    If you get a chance , can you post the info on getting your gun setup
|> >|> >  with this conversion, cost etc...   ????
|> >|> >
|> >|> back bottle $249
|> >|> bottom line $289
|> >|> 
|> oh, btw, are these also the us prices?
|> 
|> >     jeeesh ... I'll stick with hand warmers taped to the tank ...
|> >
|> are they legal? i rtead in a rulebook something about lighters not
|> allowed... any tourny players out there?

   I use the 3x3 pocket hand-warmers and tape them to the tank. They
  seem to keep the tank at an even temp.

|> 
|> 
|> cu
|> -pete
|> 
|> 
|> 
|> -- 
|> Peter J. Kunz		Home:		(+41) 061 721 75 56 (Weekends)
|> P.O. Box 315		Business:	(+41) 01  261 35 74 (Weekdays)
|> 4106 Therwil		Fax:		(+41) 061 324 71 88
|> Switzerland		E-Mail:		pkunz@amiga.physik.unizh.ch

***********************************************************************
scott  e. wakeman                   *    "LIFE'S SHORT. PLAY HARD"    
North American Philips Laboratories *
email   sew@philabs.philips.com     *  my opinions ...   who elses???
***********************************************************************
 Smart Parts VM-68              ______________-_
                               |    ____________|   ....O.....O......
                   ________    /  /|(|
                  |        \__/__/
                  |________/
***********************************************************************
                          IMAGINE WHIRLED PEAS 
Newsgroups: rec.railroad
From: gregg@pinot.zehntel.com (Gregg Fuhriman)
Subject: Re: Railwork in Cupertino
Reply-To: gregg@pinot.UUCP (Gregg Fuhriman)
Organization: Zehntel, Inc. Walnut Creek, CA
Distribution: ba
Date: Thu, 15 Oct 1992 18:23:37 GMT

In article <1992Oct14.172640.6098@clipper.ingr.com> cantrell@clipper.ingr.com (Loren Cantrell) writes:
>
>happened to catch the train going by, there were three locomotives pulling a
>long line of cars and they were really working hard.  I'm not a diesel        
>  officianado, so I don't know what kind they were.

That train commonly has GP9's, and I've also seen SD9's and GP40-2's.
Last time I saw the Permanente Local it had a Kodachrome GP9 on the point.
That train often still uses a caboose as well.

						Gregg Fuhriman

Newsgroups: rec.railroad
From: ovr@lk-hp-1.hut.fi (Otto-Ville Ronkainen)
Subject: Re: Europe trip report and signals, part 2
Keywords: SJ, NSB, DSB, signals
Reply-To: ovr@snakemail.hut.fi (Otto-Ville Ronkainen)
Organization: L{nsi-Uudenmaan Keisarillinen Polyteknillinen Koulu
Date: Wed, 14 Oct 1992 00:23:31 GMT

In article <30155@dworkin.wustl.edu> jps@dworkin.wustl.edu (James Sterbenz) writes:
>I then headed to Skanderborg.
>The train was a multiple unit diesel trainset with flat ends to allow
>coupling trainsets together -- it sounded more like a bus than a train
>(including shifting gears!).  The electronic displays on the train
>were very impressive: large displays that indicated the next stop, and
>displays above each seat with the person's name for which the seat is
>reserved.

Ah, the IC-3s. Definitely most electronic "bells and whistles" in a train
I've seen so far. Back in the good old days when there were trains and
there were Lyntog, the above-seat displays indicated the distance, for
which the seat was reserved. I think this makes more sense, since it
is possible to travel on InterCity trains without reservation in Jutland
(with some exceptions). BTW, do the on-board phones still not return
unused coins?
--
Ott-Vill R______________________
ovr@snakemail.hut.fi
Newsgroups: rec.railroad
From: dewi@bnr.ca (Dewi Williams)
Subject: Re: Tramway/trolley gauges
Originator: dewi@bcrks78
Reply-To: dewi@bnr.ca (Dewi Williams)
Organization: Bell-Northern Research, Ltd
Date: Tue, 13 Oct 1992 19:22:07 GMT


In article <1992Oct13.161431.7462@sq.sq.com>, msb@sq.sq.com (Mark Brader) writes:
> >   The Landport and Southsea Tramway Company was authorized in
> >   1863 to lay a line from Portsmouth Town Station to Clarence Pier, a
> >   distance of a little over a mile.  It was opened in 1865 with grooved
> >   rails and a gauge of 4ft. 7 3/4in., this being chosen so that ordinary
> >   railway wagons and carriages could use it.  Though there is no
> >   evidence that in fact they did so ...
> 
> But this doesn't make sense, unless (a) the gauge is being measured in
> a way different from railway practice, or (b) the wheels are riding on
> the tracks in a nonstandard way.
 
b) is correct. The grooves in a tramway rail are so shallow that the tire of
   a railway wheel does not ride on the surface of the rail; instead, the
   flange of the wheel rides in the bottom of the groove.
   BUT: the "front" face of the flange is tapered, so the gauge between grooves
   in the tramway rail must be less than the gauge between railway-type rails
   if the flange is to fit in the groove.


               ------------------------
               -----axle---------------
                    |     |    
                    |     |    
                    |     |    
                    |     |    Railway wheel
                    |     |    
                    |___  |    
                        \ |    
                         \|    
                    ____   _     
                    |   |_| |    
                    |       |    
                    |       |  Tramway rail  
                    \       /
                     \     / 
                      |   |    

... Dewi
From: gnn@wsl.dec.com (George Neville-Neil)
Newsgroups: rec.railroad
Subject: Re: LIRR joke
Date: 7 Oct 92 16:52:52 GMT
Article-I.D.: wsl.1992Oct7.095252
Reply-To: gnn@wsl.dec.com (George Neville-Neil)
Organization: DEC Western Software Lab

In article <1992Oct7.153456.23357@s1.gov>, lip@s1.gov (Loren I. Petrich) writes:
|> In article <oeoas1i00WBLM8uMRq@andrew.cmu.edu> Alan Edward Petrillo <ap2z+@andrew.cmu.edu> writes:
|> 
|> >"Did you know that the almighty created the LIRR?"
|> 
|> >"Really?"
|> 
|> >"Sure, the Bible says He created all things that creepeth and crawleth."
|> 
|> >-as quoted in Ron Ziel and George Foster's "Steel Rails to the Sunrise."
|> 
|> >This joke is from the early 50's, when the LIRR suffered a succession of
|> >accidents and a general deterioration of service.
|> 
|> 	I wonder what shape the LIRR is in now. I presume that it has
|> improved at least somewhat since then. I've seen news in a railfan
|> magazine that the electrification on the Ronkonkoma line has been
|> extended out to Rkk itself (or something like that), even though Rkk
|> is not at the end of the Rkk line. This, and the opening of a tunnel
|> to Penn Station, would suggest some kind of commitment to improving
|> LIRR service.
|> 

When I rode the LIRR, from about 1980 to 1985, it was reasonably on 
time and quick.  It's not the cleanest railroad, but it's very useful,
runs frequently and fairly late and the prices were OK.  It's a hell
of a lot faster than driving into/out of NY :-)

Later,
George

PS I lived in N. Babylon so I rode the electrified Babylon branch.
-- 
Who needs the NEA when you have NBC?
From: BRANDT_JOBST/HP1900_01@HPLOMG.HPL.HP.COM
Newsgroups: rec.railroad
Subject: Re: Railwork in Cupertino
Date: 15 Oct 92 00:53:25 GMT

J.R. Stoner writes:

> That section of mainline track is the SP Permanente branch, originating at
> San Jose Cahill and terminating at the Kaiser Cement/Aluminum plant at that
> part of the hill above Cupertino.

This is the Permanente BRANCH.  The mainline runs elsewhere, north and
south from San Jose.  This line was part of the line to Santa Cruz before
the Los Gatos to Santa Cruz part was closed in 1940.  Later the Vasona Jct
to Los Gatos part was dropped when passenger traffic halted and the Palo
Alto to Vasona trains were discontinued.

> There is essentially only that traffic on
> the entire mainline, sending unit coal trains to the plant regularly.

There are many industrial spurs in San Jose and Campbell although there
are few carloadings.

> I think that Kaiser operates the last industrial coal-burning power
> plant in this part of California.

The cement plant at Davenport on the end of the Santa Cruz branch burns
coal as well.  SInce SP and D&RGW joined there has been a steady run of
D&RGW coal cars running with the cement hoppers.

jobst_brandt@hplabs.hp.com
From: 737ochs@gw.wmich.edu
Newsgroups: rec.railroad
Subject: Re: W&S ramblings
Date: 9 Oct 92 05:24:47 GMT
Distribution: na
Organization: Western Michigan University

>>From dave Wed Oct  7 14:34:20 1992
> : [some text deleted]
> :
> :According to the net, Glenn Mohart's F-units are not currently
> :being used, and the Janesville yard is idle.  Janesville was
> :previously the hub for operations to and from Chicago, Madison,
> :Waukesha, and Freeport.  Any idea what their current operating
> :scheme is?  There isn't much trackage available for switching in
> :Madison.  Also, what motive power is being used on old WICT
> :trackage?  WICT had a fleet of blue GP9's (I think) with white
> :lettering.  I suspect they may still be on the property, but I'm
> :in Ohio and can't verify.
> : [more text deleted]

Well, I can tell you where one of his F-Units is, FP7 # 96A is in Paw Paw
Michigan on the Kalamazoo LakeShore & Chicago (KLS&C) running their dinner
train, and once in a while the scenic train if their ex-ATSF GP7u is busy.
It is in the IC-inspired colors or brown and cream (I think that's the
correct colors). They leased this after the E-unit they had died.
(There is a picture of this engine in wuarchive.wustl.edu in the 
/graphics/trains/diesel directory)

Fred Ochs
From: BHARPER@VTVM1.CC.VT.EDU (Bruce B. Harper)
Newsgroups: rec.railroad
Subject: GG1s, E33s, etc.
Date: 16 Oct 1992 14:42:50 -0500
Organization: UTexas Mail-to-News Gateway
NNTP-Posting-Host: cs.utexas.edu

   I'll add two cents to two parts of what started as the "Electric vs.
Diesel Maintenance" thread. . .
   GG1s in Museums --
   There is a GG1 in the Virginia Museum of Transporation in Roanoke,
although I don't remember the number offhand.  It qualifies for exclusion
since the GG1s did cross into Virginia to Potomac Yard.
   There is a GG1 under the trainshed at the Harrisburg (Pa.) passenger
station.  Again I don't remember the number, but it was significant because
it was the first unit into/out of Harrisburg when the passenger line was
electrified to Philadelphia.

   As to E33s --
   This is the Penn Central/Conrail designation.  When on the Virginian,
they were classed EL-C.  Ownership of these GE-built units went:
   Virginian
   Norfolk & Western
   New Haven
   Penn Central
   Conrail

   The perfectly good units were used by the Norfolk & Western for several
years after it merged the Virginian into its operations.  But the Virginian
electrification didn't fit into the N&W operating scheme of moving coal
east (West Virginia to Roanoke) on the easier grades of the VGN and empties
west on the parallel N&W--they either had to run electrified westbounds
against the flow of traffic on the VGN or deadhead the electrics west on
the N&W. N&W opted to take down the cantenary and go all diesel [ :-(  sure
would be nice if they had invested in electifying the N&W instead].  The
suddenly surplus EL-Cs were sold to the New Haven for less than $300,000
for all ten off them (that's total, not each! -- per the new book on
The Virginian published by TLC Publishing, which I can't remember the
name of, but which is advertised in the November _Trains_).
   EL-C 135 in Virginian paint is now in the Virginia Museum of
Transportation, sans internal equipment.  It was obtained by General
Electric (the original manufacturer), restored, and presented as a gift
to Norfolk Southern Corporation (GE is not populated by fools in the
marketing area--this was a good way to make a positive impression on a
major 6-axle diesel customer).  The significance of #135 is that it
existed in the paint and numbers of all five of its owners.
   Apparently there is also another EL-C in existance somewhere (in
New Haven paint maybe?). Any details on this would be appreciated.
Any details on the disposition of the other EL-Cs/E33s would also be
appreciated.  The last I saw of them was in early 1982 when they were
stored dead in Rutherford Yard (former Reading yard) in Harrisburg, Pa.  All
were in Conrail paint and were in the company of some E44s, a number of
GG1s, and a mixed collection of diesels (including a GP-9B, several ex-EL
SDP-45s, and some other odds and ends).
                                                   Bruce


  Administrative Display System      Bruce B. Harper, Manager
  Virginia Tech,  Blacksburg, Virginia  24061-0433
         ==In the heart of Norfolk and Western territory.==
  BHARPER@VTVM1 (BITNET) or BHARPER@VTVM1.CC.VT.EDU (Internet)
From: jmd@bear.com (Josh Diamond)
Newsgroups: rec.railroad
Subject: Re: NYC color-coding, again
Date: 9 Oct 92 23:42:50 GMT
	<1992Oct6.191358.25799@news.columbia.edu>
Organization: Bear, Stearns & Co. - FAST
In-reply-to: brennan@cunixf.cc.columbia.edu's message of 6 Oct 92 19:13:58 GMT


In article <1992Oct6.191358.25799@news.columbia.edu> brennan@cunixf.cc.columbia.edu (Joseph Brennan) writes:

   ...squashed black lumps I've never been able to identify...

Joe, the squashed black lumps are probably chewing gum.

The act of chewing gum is one of the most disgusting habits I have
ever come across.  It makes one look like a cow chewing its cud.  And
why is it that people have the need to stick their gum somewhere, or
spit it on the floor?  It's ghastly.

And to annoy a few more people, why can't cigarrette smokers stub out
their butts and put them in the garbage can?  Why must they throw them
on the ground?

Slobs. Ugh.  :-(

Diatribe complete -- we now return you to previously scheduled posts...

					Spidey!!!


--
 /\ \  / /\  Josh Diamond                                          jmd@bear.com
//\\ .. //\\ AKA Spidey!!!                        ...!ctr.columbia.edu!ursa!jmd
//\((  ))/\\
/  < `' >  \                                              Do whatever it takes.
Newsgroups: rec.railroad
From: terryfry@access.digex.com (Terry Fry)
Subject: Re: Diesel vs. Electric Locomotive Maintenance
Organization: Express Access Online Communications, Greenbelt, Maryland USA
Date: Thu, 15 Oct 1992 17:36:53 GMT

In article <35815@cbmvax.commodore.com> grr@cbmvax.commodore.com (George Robbins) writes:
[things deleted...]
>Well, possibly, though I wouldn't overwork the notion of simplicity, they
>were farily sophisticated for their time and took advantage of the best
>technology available.

Moreso the inherit simplicity of maintenance and repair in a electric,
When built, they were the tip of technology.  It also might be added
they they simply were "well built".

>The other major factor is that they represent a refinement of the basic
>design theme tested over several generations of Pennsy electric locomotives,
>combining the AC motor technology* developed on the P5 and predecessors with
>the articulated frame design successfully used on New Haven boxcabs.

From what I understand, a GG1 and some other unit were tested, the G fully
expected to be out-performed (something of its heritage, being a New haven
based design..).  They however ignored politics and ran with that design.


>* pairs of AC interpole traction motors suspended over the axles geared
>to a "quill drive" consisting of a spool surrounding the axle with fingers
>driving between "spokes" in the wheels.

There is one in Baltimore, maybe I'll take a look underneath... <g>

>Basically, there was nothing "better" available until the refinement of
>high power mercury vapor rectifiers (later solid state) made possible the
>GE E33 and E44 electric freight locomotives which which used diesel
>derived carbodys and DC traction motors.  These (E44) were able to displace
>the older P5 engines and some GG1's in freight service and the resulting
>surplus of GG1's and declining passenger service left them in a situation
>where they really didn't need a "better" passenger locomotive.

Now, the E33's were Virginian property before the Pennsy got them, right?

>The Pennsy's solution to the Northeast Corridor was the Metroliners,
>based on souped-up Budd MU cars.  These were supposed to be capable
>of 120-160 MPH service (track conditions not permitting) and probably
>bridged the gap between relying on GG1's entirely and needing a
>replacement for both the Metroliners and the GG1's.


>The Amtrak euro-engines are kind of a mixed blessing, it's interesting
>to contemplate what the Pennsy would have come up with if they had
>faced the GG1 replacement problem with their engineering powers intact.

Like most Americans & American press, people simply don't know that
the rail systems of Europe, however expanded on, pretty much came from
the Pennsy corridor.  I would liked to have seen an American electric
passenger loco, but I have come to respect and down right like the 
AEM-7's.  I never liked the E60CP's, they even look unreliable...



Newsgroups: rec.railroad
From: dewi@bnr.ca (Dewi Williams)
Subject: Re: Empire Builder Lost? (was: LIRR Joke)
Originator: dewi@bcrks78
Reply-To: dewi@bnr.ca (Dewi Williams)
Organization: Bell-Northern Research, Ltd
Date: Thu, 8 Oct 1992 01:19:03 GMT


In article <16094@mindlink.bc.ca>, Steve_Hooper@mindlink.bc.ca (Steve Hooper) writes:
> > Dan Meyer writes:
> >
> > This supposedly happened, shortly after Amtrak took over the actual
> > operation
> > of their own trains in this part of the country.  The westbound builder
 
(Empire Builder story deleted)


> > figured out that they were seriously lost and took the train the wrong way!
> 
> 
> Call me a non-believer or a story wrecker, but I find this hard to believe.
> Train crews MUST be familiar with the territory they are on, otherwise a
> pilot from that particular area MUST be called.
> 
However, there is also a tale of a Sunday morning Montreal to Ottawa train,
in the days when we had a Union Station in downtown Ottawa.  The story goes
that the tower was unmanned from late Saturday to midday Sunday, but on one
occasion the switch was left set the wrong way, and a novice train crew was
half-way to Carleton Place before they realized they should already have 
arrived at Ottawa.
 
... Dewi
From: asgard@plx.com (J.R. Stoner)
Newsgroups: rec.railroad
Subject: Re: Railwork in Cupertino
Keywords: n
Date: 12 Oct 92 23:50:06 GMT
Distribution: ba
Organization: Heironamous Botch's Murk Works

In article <8103@public.BTR.COM> rah@public.BTR.COM (Richard A Hyde) writes:
_Hi,

_I'm a rail novice, but I thought I'd post this to "ba" in case anyone
_is interested...  :-)

_There is some kind of spur? line running along the west side of Bubb Rd
_in Cupertino and by the 85/280 junction.  It appears to be undergoing
_extensive renovation.  They (SP?) have replaced every 10th tie or so
_along the tracks, dumped a lot of new ballast, tamped it down, and
_straightened the tracks (which were badly out of true).  The work has
_progressed to the 85/280 intersection and seems to be proceeding westward.

_Hopper cars filled with crushed granite go by every few hours during the
_day.  The regular traffic on the section seems to go by between 4:30 and
_5:00 pm weekdays carrying 8 to 10 Rio Grande hopper cars filled with
_coal (coal?  who uses that much coal in the bay area?)   Another, longer,
_train passes north to south along Bubb Rd about 6:30 pm.  I don't
_believe there is any other regular traffic on this route.

That section of mainline track is the SP Permanente branch, originating at
San Jose Cahill and terminating at the Kaiser Cement/Aluminum plant at that
part of the hill above Cupertino.  There is essentially only that traffic on
the entire mainline, sending unit coal trains to the plant regularly.  I think
that Kaiser operates the last industrial coal-burning power plant in this
part of California.  I don't know why SP would be doing maintenance at this
time unless it appears that an upsurge in industrial activity at the plant
is in the offing.  One can have hope for that.
-- 
J.R. Stoner, DWMIT - asgard@plx.com - sun.com!plx!plxsun!asgard
Newsgroups: rec.railroad
From: ovr@lk-hp-3.hut.fi (Otto-Ville Ronkainen)
Subject: Re: Europe trip report and signals, part 2
Keywords: SJ, NSB, DSB, signals
Reply-To: ovr@snakemail.hut.fi (Otto-Ville Ronkainen)
Organization: L{nsi-Uudenmaan Keisarillinen Polyteknillinen Koulu
Date: Thu, 15 Oct 1992 13:19:14 GMT

In article <ns.719067565@csd> ns@csd.cri.dk (Nick Sandru) writes:
>Here is my completion - the result of personal observations made during
>a trip from Turku to Vainikala (sp?) in Dec. 1990 - Jan. 1991.

Vainikkala.

>I have also seen an entry signal with 4 lamps - there was an extra yellow
>lamp atop the others (I could see the colours of the lamps because they
>reflected the headlights of the locomotive). It was at the entrance of a
>large station cca 40 km north of Helsinki on the Lahti line (I have to
>look on a map for the name). That station is the only place where I saw
>new-style signal heads (the distant signals were old-style though).

Yes, I too have only seen the new signals on the Riihim{ki-Lahti line,
there are now several stations with them.

>   R  = stop            G  = clear           G  = slow (35 km/h)
>                                             Y
                                              =
Yes, that should have been G+Y in my article (actually the yellow is quite
a reddish orange).

>I have seen several stations fitted with mechanical signals on the Turku -
>Helsinki line during my trip in Dec 1990. There were also at least two
>intermediate block signals. All these signals had electric distant signals
>fitted with only one green light.

They have probably been replaced with (new) electric signals in conjunction
with the rebuilding of that line.

>In the suburban area of Helsinki I could also see block signals consisting
>of a two-lamp main signal combined with a distant signal - these are spaced
>at 1.2 - 1.5 km intervals (or even closer on tracks used only by the
>suburban trains).

I think they more often have three-lamp main signals. And they are only
used for station exits.
--
Ott-Vill R______________________
ovr@snakemail.hut.fi
From: mangoe@cs.umd.edu (Charley Wingate)
Newsgroups: rec.railroad
Subject: Re: GG1s, E33s, etc.
Date: 17 Oct 92 02:40:14 GMT

Bruce Harper writes:

>   There is a GG1 in the Virginia Museum of Transporation in Roanoke,
>although I don't remember the number offhand.  It qualifies for exclusion
>since the GG1s did cross into Virginia to Potomac Yard.

I have been in this locomotive.  The cab is not too bad, but the passageway
in is incredibly narrow and not very tall.

As far as "qualifying", I would like to know how the Panama Canal motor
managed to "qualify".
-- 
C. Wingate        + "The peace of God, it is no peace,
                  +    but strife closed in the sod.
mangoe@cs.umd.edu +  Yet, brothers, pray for but one thing:
tove!mangoe       +    the marv'lous peace of God."