From: shannah@netcom.com (Teri Miller)
Subject: Re: Picking up the Tab (was: Re: What is gold-digging?)
Organization: Netcom Online Communications Services (408-241-9760 login: guest)
Date: Mon, 21 Dec 1992 06:18:20 GMT

In article <1992Dec20.003840.24916@cs.ucla.edu> gds@cs.ucla.edu (Greg Skinner) writes:
>In article <1992Dec19.224000.28895@netcom.com> aahz@netcom.com (Mean Green Dancing Machine) writes:
>>The problem is this: if we spend all our time negotiating behavior
>>patterns with every new person we meet, it's rather inefficient.  We
>>need default behavior patterns.
>
>Negotiating behavior patterns doesn't take that much time.  If you
>find you can't negotiate in a few minutes, maybe it's a sign that you
>won't be able to go on to the kind of relationship you had thought you
>might (whether it be friendship, romance, or what have you).  It also
>saves a lot of confusion, hurt, and misunderstanding in the long run.
>
I agree with Greg.  Being able to come up with methods that suit both
partes can be very easy, and when it's not, I think it's a sign of
trouble.

Besides, who says that "default behavior patterns" that might work for
you will work well for others?  After all, look at how well you and I
get along.  We have never been able to negotiate methods that suit both
of us, and as a result, at least one of us has difficulty simply being
civil when we're at the same gathering.

On the other hand, when Greg and I run into each other at gatherings, 
we generally spend time talking with one another, and I enjoy the time
we spend.  If we decided to go out and get something to eat, we could
figure out then who would pick up the tab (probably me, since he treated
last time, but I would ask) and arrange that so we would both be comfortable.

>>The counter-problem is that each of us is unique, and we live in a
>>heterogeneous society where people have different expectations.
>
>Even more reason why we should try to negotiate in order that we can
>come on more common ground.
>
If each of us is unique, how in the world does having "default behavior
patterns" help?  Everyone has different feet, too, and it sounds to me
like you're advocating something like everyone getting the same shoes,
because it's so difficult and time-consuming picking out ones that fit
and look good.

Some of us like the process.  Some of us like the result.

>>Overall, I think that if two people are getting together on a Date, the
>>default assumption should be that the asker will pay --
>
>Why?
>
Well, it would help you weed out those who disagree.  On the other hand,
if the goal is to get to know the person involved, even if you happen to
disagree on this one issue, it might not be such a great idea.  What if
the woman is one who assumes that if someone who asks insists on paying,
they're not for her, what then?

I figure there is plenty of time to find out if the person I'm going out
with and I have enough in common to be friends or SOs - using artificial
rules to try to weed them out seems kinda silly.

>
>>but both should
>>be alert to the nuances of language that will indicate that the other
>>person has a different default preference.
>
>OK
>
"Nuances of language"?  In other words, if I say "<sigh> Oh, okay, that's
fine" you should pick up on that I don't want you to pay, but if I actually
say "No, but thanks, Aahz, I'd just as soon pay my share" that's not okay?

If you're going to have a default, and that's going to be the rule, make
it the rule.  If you're going to try to mindread based on nuances in
someone else's speech, why not just find out?  I'm not talking being 
pushy or confrontive - just dispelling doubts and making sure the two of
you are making the same assumptions before you proceed and wind up stepping
on your partner's toes.

You know, there's a positive side to this negotiation business that I
don't think I've mentioned, and don't recall having seen posted.  That is
that you can use the negotiations to put your date at ease, or even to
convey appreciation or make compliments.

"Hey, remember that great dinner we had at the Chinese restaurant in
Mountain View?  Well, I found another good Chinese place in Palo Alto:
may I treat you to dinner there?"  (Conveying that I appreciated the
meal he treated me to.)

"I'm so glad you got the job.  I've been looking forward to working with
you!  How about if we take the referral bonus I got, and go have a great
meal on it? "

"Gosh, we haven't been to that Cajun restaurant in ages.  I think it's
my turn to treat - would you like to go back there?  I'm so glad you
recommended it the first time: I've had a lot of good meals there."

It certainly has a little more flair than simply saying "Let's go to
China Delight for dinner." and assuming that I'm going to pick up the
bill.

-- 
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Teri Miller                    tmiller@cisco.com -or- shannah@netcom.com
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Newsgroups: soc.singles