HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: timlee@public.btr.com
Newsgroups: soc.culture.asian.american
Subject: Re: English Only Movement
Date: 13 Apr 92 03:55:40 GMT
Reply-To: timlee@btr.com (Timothy J. Lee)
Followup-To: soc.culture.asian.american

stewartk@garnet.berkeley.edu (Stewart J. Kong) writes:
|I'm interested in what Asians think of the English Only Movement.  My
|feeling is that the real reason for this movement is economic.  The founding
|fathers of America intentionally chose NOT to have a national language so    
|that 200 years later, this movement becomes a dispute.  What I'm saying is 
|that I think it's motivated by the legislature , not for nationalistic reasons,
|but to eliminate non-English or limited English speaking people from entering
|the work force.  In this sense, because this mostly affects immigrants of 
|color, it is a racist policy.  Do you disagree or what?

I have read stuff from and about two groups:  US English and
English First.  Here is what I remember:

US English primarily seeks to pass state laws and constitutional
amendments making English the official language in those states.
Last I heard of its activities, it was somewhat schizophenic, with
some xenophobes and some others who seemed to want to give an
extra push for immigrants to learn English (not that their proposed
laws will do anything in that respect).

English First's primary goal is to pass a national constitutional
amendment for English as the official language.  Its literature
indicates that it is rather xenophobic to the core -- unfriendly
to both immigrants and latino persons.

Anyone can see the that predominant language in the USA is English,
and that anyone who plans to do anything outside of an ethnic
enclave had better have some knowledge of the language.  It is also
obvious that English is not a static language, and any attempt to
define it or make some variant of it the "official" language will
not stand the test of time (read the Declaration of Independence
or the Constitution and compare with present day usage).  Thus
the proposed laws promoted by these groups don't really do anything
useful.

However, other items on their agendas might not be as null.
US English has taken a doctrinaire stand on bilingual education,
specifically opposing anything other than ESL.  English First's
stand on this I don't remember, but from the rest of their stuff
it sounds like they would not even accept ESL, since they sound
like they want to use English as a means of exclusion, not inclusion.

Newsgroups: soc.culture.asian.american
From: tdwu@theory.lcs.mit.edu (Thomas Wu)
Subject: Re: China never as prosperous as Europe?
Followup-To: soc.culture.asian.american
Organization: MIT Lab for Computer Science
Distribution: na
Date: Wed, 15 Apr 1992 22:24:45 GMT



In article <TDWU.92Apr14233040@faust.mit.edu> 
tdwu@theory.lcs.mit.edu (Thomas Wu) writes:

   >>..."Accomplishments" (even defined as narrowly as Dwight
   >>defines them) of societies may fluctuate over time, but "cultures"
   >>(not government/economic/political circumstance) remain relatively
   >>constant over time.  

In article <1992Apr15.174149.13363@leland.Stanford.EDU>
underdog@leland.Stanford.EDU (Dwight Joe) writes:

   >Baloney.  Accomplishments are measured not only in technical terms
   >but also in social terms.  Martin Luther King was largely successful
   >in transforming a portion of American culture in the 60s.

This doesn't apply to the argument because even Chinese social
accomplishments exceeded those of the West in the past.  Since the
cultures remain relatively constant, this must mean that cultures have
very little to do with social accomplishments as well.



In article <TDWU.92Apr14233040@faust.mit.edu> 
tdwu@theory.lcs.mit.edu (Thomas Wu) writes:

   >>Here is Dwight Joe's reasoning.  Let q(t,c) be the average quality of
   >>automobiles at time t for country c.  Then, q(1992,Japan) > q(t,US)
   >>for all t.  Therefore, Japanese culture is superior to US culture,
   >>which is one of the most vile and reprehensible cultures that ever
   >>existed, one that advocates killing millions each year from handguns.

In article <1992Apr15.174149.13363@leland.Stanford.EDU>
underdog@leland.Stanford.EDU (Dwight Joe) writes:

   >No.  This is Mr. Wu's reasoning.  Mr. Wu is taking a single aspect
   >and extrapolating from that.  In order to make conclusions about
   >cultures and societies, one must look at a broad spectrum of activities.
   >An automobile doesn't constitute a broad spectrum.

Actually, my point is against extrapolating from "accomplishments" at
all and making extreme inferences about "culture", especially
inferences about "reprehensibility".  There are precise reasons why
the Japanese automobile industry succeeded, reasons that have nothing
to do with Japanese culture.  Likewise, there are precise reasons why
American culture has succeeded in many areas, reasons that have
nothing to do with American culture.

-------------------------
Thomas Wu
tdwu@mit.edu
From: 6500ursa@ucsbuxa.ucsb.edu (Disco Junkie)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.asian.american
Subject: Re: Oriental bias against Indians ? How true ?
Date: 9 Apr 92 21:51:31 GMT
Distribution: usa

In article <11999@tamsun.tamu.edu> achin@math.tamu.edu (Andrew Chin) writes:

>In article <69988@ut-emx.uucp>, vishram@ccwf.cc.utexas.edu (Vishram P.Dalvi) writes:
> 
>> 	I knew a pretty Asian-American (Oriental) girl who lived in
>> my apartment complex and had developed a liking for her. So after I 
>> thought I knew her fairly well, I was contemplating asking her out 
>> on a date. Since I had never dated any American women before, I decided 

>> 	This friend just asked me to FORGET THE GIRL. He told me that
>> no Oriental girl will go for an Indian.

>Good deal!  Now if only we can get the CM's to consult us first, too....
>
>Andrew Chin    Dept. of Math.    Texas A&M U.    College Station, TX 77843

Good deal?  It's a tragedy to me that any person can't ask someone out
because of racial prejudice.  I'm sympathetic to the dating plight of
many asian males (I as a Japanese-Chinese American, have experienced it), 
and I understand your anger and frustration, but it doesn't mean that one 
should cheer on the misfortunes of others.  Should there be no interracial 
dating at all in your book?

I would tell the Indian fellow to go ahead, the worst he can get is
rejection.  Here at UCSB, I've noticed lots of Indian exchange students,
but almost all of them are male.  With so few Indian females, unless one 
goes for interracial dating or is gay, one might as well say goodbye to any 
notions of dating whatsoever.   Go for it and ask her out.  "Nothing ventured,
nothing gained" applies here.  Good luck.

Please, please, I BEG all of you, let's not start another interracial
dating flame...  The subject has been talked about a lot.  Let's wait
for one more month (unless some juicy, gossipy article is posted, upon
which I will be a hypocrite and reply...like NOW!  ;-)    )

Hypocrites unite,

Disco Junkie
From: garyh@sco.COM (< Gary H >)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.asian.american
Subject: Re: Chinatown unsafe? (was Re: Will America fall?)
Date: Mon, 13 Apr 92 19:21:37 GMT
Distribution: na
Organization: The Santa Cruz Operation, Inc.


In article <1992Apr10.013917.25994@leland.Stanford.EDU>,
underdog@leland.Stanford.EDU (Dwight Joe) says:
!
!In article <1992Apr9.191353.7775@oakhill.sps.mot.com> jpak@manute.sps.mot.com
!inquisitively asks:
!>
!>Is this true?  Is Chinatown (SF) more unsafe than it was, say, five years
!ago?
!>I'd like to know since I'll be visiting the BA this summer and I'd like to go
!>to Chinatown if I can but I'd rather not get caught in the middle of a cross-
!>fire.  [wry :-)]
!
!Please.  For your own sake, don't walk anywhere near China town.  You
!are, however, permitted to spit on the place as you drive by on your
!way to Japan town.

Boy, I'm beginning to think that you've been jumped by Chinese gangs; maybe
you got into a fight with some chinese dude that kick that shit out of you.
I wouldn't be surprised that you would come to the conclusion we are barbaric
from these incidents.

I wouldn't be surprised if you were the dude I knew in HS who tried to fit
in with the chinese gangs, but no one wanted you around cuz you're a dork.
You thought you would fit in with no problem cuz you're white, but little
did you know they mocked you as your white friends did.  

In your view chinese culture is barbaric.  In other countries, life in
American cities are barbaric.  Like someone said a few messages ago, living
in the US is like living in a war zone.  People die of stabbings and gunshot
wounds as you read this.

Gary
-- 
|^^^^^^|            _Yo_Man_____________________________
|      |          /            garyh@sco.com             \
|  _  _|        /             uunet!sco!garyh              \
| (o)(o)      /             425  Encinal Street              \
@      _)   /          Santa Cruz, California  95061          |
 | ,___|   /   W: [408] 457-0195 x7765 / Fax: [408] 429-1887 /
 |   /     \_______________________________________________/
/____\            The Santa Cruz Operation (SCO), Inc.
From: vishram@ccwf.cc.utexas.edu (Vishram P.Dalvi)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.asian.american
Subject: Oriental bias against Indians ? How true ?
Date: 8 Apr 92 06:41:26 GMT
Reply-To: vishram@ccwf.cc.utexas.edu (Vishram P.Dalvi)
Distribution: usa
Organization: The University of Texas at Austin, Austin TX
Originator: vishram@dopey.cc.utexas.edu

Hi SCAA readers,

	I am pretty new to this newsgroup and my subject may surprise 
a few of you. I am an Indian (Asian) and the above question popped up 
into my head after talking to some of my Chinese friends. 

	I knew a pretty Asian-American (Oriental) girl who lived in
my apartment complex and had developed a liking for her. So after I 
thought I knew her fairly well, I was contemplating asking her out 
on a date. Since I had never dated any American women before, I decided 
to consult one of my Asian-American friends about it since I thought
that coming from a similar cultural/family background he would have 
some idea about the psyche of Asian-American women.

	This friend just asked me to FORGET THE GIRL. He told me that
no Oriental girl will go for an Indian. They might go for Caucasians
(no racial thoughts on MY part here) probably, but most of them are
told by their parents (or atleast given the idea) that Indians are poor,
ignorant, good-for-nothin peasants. Also the families are very conservative
(aren't most of us Asians !) and so the parents approve of their daughters 
dating only other Orientals (This didn't surprise me much because a lot
of Indian families here have the same mentality) and a lot of girls,
respecting their parents, will abide by their wishes !

	So I spoke with a couple of other Asian-American friends and
they too kind of echoed the same thought. Let me clarify here by telling
that NONE of these friends is a RACIST or Indian-hater, in fact all my
room-mates and I get along EXTREMELY well with them and we have a lot of
social interaction. So I completely ruled out any feelings of personal
prejudices coming into the picture.

	This revelation upset me very much (not just because I liked
the girl) because I am raised in India in a very free atmosphere
and my parents have been very liberal in my upbringing and I was never
fed any racist or sexist ideas. My parents never restricted my friends
or girlfriends to any specific race/religion or language, nor has any
restriction ever been placed on whom I can marry (though they would
definitely be more happy if I marry an Indian girl !). SO the very idea
of a bias repulsed me and set me thinking on whether this would be true
and WHY ? My personal experience has been that Caucasian women are very
liberal when it comes to social interaction but Orientals are a bit
restricted but I wouldn't say that I have found an overt bias as such.

	I thought that it might be interesting to bring up this question
in SCAA and seek the opinion of all of you. I hope that most of you will
be CANDID and not just try to SOUND like ideal people (If you tell me
what I will like, even if it is not true, then it will defeat the entire
purpose of broaching this issue).
Newsgroups: soc.culture.asian.american,soc.culture.african.american
From: sguillo@intelhf.hf.intel.com (Stanford Guillory)
Subject: Re: Asian Immigrants on SAT English
Organization: Development Tools Operation, Intel Corp., Hillsboro  OR
Date: Mon, 6 Apr 92 16:14:04 GMT

robart@agora.uucp (Robert Barton) writes:

>In article <YdrWPVG00Uh783h4Nn@andrew.cmu.edu> dc4l+@andrew.cmu.edu (Dean Calloway) writes:
>>
>>No. Absolutely great solution.  However, qualify it by FIRST using
>>FEDERAL funds to improve the infrastructure in urban America, to set up
>>effective drug rehabilitation programs, to provide job training to
>>dislocated workers, to set up good day care (my own personal favorite)
>>so that moms can go off to work and finish school, to implement a whole
>>host of social programs that EVERY other industrialized nation (with the
>>exceptiopn of S. Africa) in the world has.
>>
>>Any disagreemnet with this last solution?

>  Yes.  It's unconstitutional.

Let me get this straight. It is unconstitutional to refurbish
our cities? It's unconstitutional to help people with drug problems?
It's unconstitutional to retrain workers for other jobs? Unconstitutional
to provide day care so single parents can better their lives? No
wonder this country is in the state it's in. 

Stanford S. Guillory
sguillor@pcocd2.intel.com

Newsgroups: soc.culture.asian.american
From: gwu@nujoizey.tcs.com (George Wu)
Subject: Re: Will America fall?
Organization: Teknekron Communications Systems Inc.
Distribution: na
Date: Thu, 16 Apr 1992 20:56:25 GMT

In article <1992Apr8.005256.4868@leland.Stanford.EDU> underdog@leland.Stanford.EDU (Dwight Joe) writes:
> 
>As I've said before, the model minority concept might apply to
>the Japanese-Americans and Korean-Americans, but it certainly doesn't
>apply to Chinese-Americans.  A visit to Chinatown should convince
>you.  (I've been told by a couple of Chinese to stay away from
>Chinatown, a very unsafe place--"thanks" to Chinese culture.)

     Here we see another example of Dwight Joe's much lauded Western
thinking.  We Chinese-Americans don't fit the model minority profile
because there's at least one Chinese-American out there who's a criminal.
We're guilty by association, and guilty until proven innocent.  That some
of us might also be hard-working, intelligent, and not gangsters, is
irrelevant.

     Naturally, no Japanese-American or Korean-American has ever committed
a crime, and therefore persons of such ethnic origins easily fit the
model-minority roll.

							George

----
George J Wu, Software Engineer        : gwu@tcs.com or uunet!tcs!gwu
Teknekron Communications Systems, Inc.: (510) 649-3700
2121 Allston Way, Berkeley, CA, 94704 : Quit reading news.  Get back to work.
Newsgroups: soc.culture.asian.american
From: hyx1@cunixa.cc.columbia.edu (Harry Y Xu)
Subject: Re: Asian American amateur athletes
Organization: Columbia University
Date: Sun, 12 Apr 1992 07:08:24 GMT

In article <92101.210250U51115@uicvm.uic.edu> U51115@uicvm.uic.edu writes:
>In article <12183@tamsun.tamu.edu>, achin@math.tamu.edu (Andrew Chin) says:
>>|> take some time.  A year from now, I should be winning regularly.  anyway,
>>|> winning is not a big deal; just have fun.  You can look at it this way: 
>>|> you are computing with yourself (your "old self").
>>       ^^^^^^^^^
>>Alas, the loneliness of the long-distance hacker....
>I wish people would stop making fun of us Asian Americans just because we're s
>lower than any other people. And maybe we're not all that smart either 

	No, we Asian Americans are not slower than any other people.  And 
we are not all that smart.
	It's just that we tend to overlook the importance of sports and 
over-emphasize education.  Comparing to other communities, more of us are
engaged in scholarship than sports proportional to the population.  Therefore
there seem to be more "smart" Asians and less athletes proportionally.
	In the Central Park races every weekend, there are thousands of 
racers.  I only see around 10 Asians, 10/3000=0.33%.  But the Asian 
population in New York City is at least (I guess) 10%.  Just be statistics,
we Asian Amerians are not as likely to win as members of other ethnic groups.

====================================>.sig <====================================
  Harry Xu  (KB2LHA)	   Internet:  hyx1@cunixb.cc.columbia.edu
 *Columbia University Amateur Radio Club (CUARC-<>-W2AEE)  *Founded, 1913*
 *The American Radio Relay League:  Amateur Radio >>---> A National Resource
 *New York Road Runners Club  -&-  Columbia University Road Runners Club 
	"Go run; nothing else makes you feel as good as making love."  --ME
====================================> end <====================================
From: janew@woobaby.EBay.Sun.COM (Jane Woo)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.asian.american
Subject: Re: China never as prosperous as Europe?
Date: 15 Apr 92 19:52:49 GMT
Reply-To: janew@woobaby.EBay.Sun.COM
Organization: Sun Microsystems, Inc.
NNTP-Posting-Host: woobaby.ebay.sun.com

In article 13363@leland.Stanford.EDU, underdog@leland.Stanford.EDU (Dwight Joe) writes:

> In article <TDWU.92Apr14233040@faust.mit.edu> tdwu@theory.lcs.mit.edu
  [stuff deleted for brevity...]
> certainly doesn't make Chinese society superior.  On the contrary,
> it just goes to show how savage Chinese culture really is.  There
> are, in fact, some Chinese who point to Chinese weapons development
> as a source of technological "triumph".  If that isn't barbaric, what is?

Ah.... does this mean that the rules are changing again?  Does this 
statement infer that "those who point to their weapons development as
as a source of technological 'triump'..... are barbaric"??

If that is the case.... you can bet that you can throw in a said Western
country that spends over $3 billion for defense when it is not "at war"
with any other country.  And, at the same time, said Western country has
millions of homeless people and welfare program that doesn't seem to
work.  

What's the deal?

-jane
From: melindac@thedarktower.Corp.Sun.COM (I Shop therefore I AM!!)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.asian.american
Subject: re Chinatown unsafe? (was Re: Will America fa
Date: 10 Apr 92 17:34:56 GMT
Reply-To: melindac@thedarktower.Corp.Sun.COM (I Shop therefore I AM!!)
Organization: Sun Microsystems, Inc.  Mt. View, Ca.
NNTP-Posting-Host: thedarktower.corp.sun.com


		James Pak asks : 
		> Is this true?  Is Chinatown (SF) more unsafe than it was, 
		> say, five years ago? I'd like to know since I'll be 
		> visiting the BA this summer and I'd like to go to 
		> Chinatown if I can but I'd rather not get caught in the 
		> middle of a cross-fire.  [wry :-)]

	Jane Woo(baby) :  
	> Hey, to play it safe... just visit during the light
	> hours... that's about 8:00pm with daylight savings!  You'll 
	> find some of the best roast ducks and BBQ pork in the windows!! 
	> Yum!

Heck, the only time I ever get a chance to go into Chinatown is *at night.*
I've never encountered any problems. Of course, I don't hang around till
after midnight either which is when most of any crime in any city will
happen. I'm going to repeat this again for Dwight's benefit "I don't
hang around till after midnight either ******which is when most of ANY
CRIME in ANY CITY will happen.********"

And as for the roast ducks and bbq pork, don't forget about the roast
pig with its juicy crunchy skin. And don't forget about the bakeries.
Big YUM!

There is also another area in SF where another Chinatown is springing
up. It's on Clement St. near the Presidio (?). It's not as crowded
there although the parking still sucks but not as badly.  :^) 

James, make sure you have a big appetite when you go to Chinatown. Oh,
and be very careful when walking around, the sidewalks can get slippery
especially after Dwight's been spittin' all over it.

	Melinda
From: timlee@public.btr.com
Newsgroups: soc.culture.asian.american
Subject: Re: One more time on this (AA spokesperson)
Date: 11 Apr 92 22:30:50 GMT
Reply-To: timlee@btr.com (Timothy J. Lee)
Followup-To: soc.culture.asian.american
Distribution: na

sieh@midway.uchicago.edu writes:
|jpak@oakhill.sps.mot.com (James Pak) writes:
|>I'm advocating an AA spokesperson who would help broadcast the problem of
|>increasing anti-Asian racism to the general masses.  I would like to see group
|>support from AAs of this person.  
|
|back to the problem of the representation.  Does a Chinese American represent
|the views of the Korean American community or the Filipino Community?  There
|is much more ethnic diversity among the Asian American community than the
|Black American community.

|It is very much like the "white spokesperson".  George Bush is a spokesperson
|for which group?  The whites?  Think not.  The case with the Asian American
|will be similar.

One problem that black and asian people face when someone of their
group speaks on some issue is that others view that person and his/her
views as representative of everyone of that group.  The problem is
worst, of course, when such a person says something very inflammatory
that most others in his/her group don't really agree with.

White people don't seem to face this problem probably because white
people are everywhere, and it is easy to see the political diversity
contained within that group.  Whereas the smaller number of black and
asian people makes it easier for listeners who have had little contact
with black or asian people to assume that the speaker is speaking the
views of most black or asian people.  The fact that some media
organizations and some of the speakers themselves over emphasize
their race or ethnicity in their speeches doesn't make the situation
any better.

Newsgroups: soc.culture.asian.american
From: kerryg@stat.rice.edu (Kerry Go)
Subject: Re: Asian American amateur athletes
Organization: Dept. of Statistics, Rice University
Distribution: usa
Date: Thu, 9 Apr 1992 21:47:14 GMT

In article <1992Apr9.182436.29409@galileo.cc.rochester.edu> mjln_ltd@uhura.cc.rochester.edu (Mikeey J. Lin) writes:
>Advice for today : Never make fun of anyone on the Crew team. They have a
>                   tendency to hurl large objects at you. (eg television)
>		   This often results in bodily harm. (Oouuuccchhhh!!!!!!)

I'd make fun of them before I'd make fun of someone on an archery, or riflery
team :-)