HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: stansbury-travis@yale.edu (Travis Stansbury)
Newsgroups: alt.culture.oregon
Subject: Re: Influx of Californians? Gee--what a surprise!
Date: 23 Nov 1992 20:58:27 -0500
Organization: Yale University
NNTP-Posting-Host: minerva.cis.yale.edu

In article <1992Nov23.083349.657@netcom.com> garyg@netcom.com (Gary Greene) writes:
>
>I might be willing to argue that some places equal Oregon in natural
>beauty.  Others are different but just as beautiful, and watching
>that beauty decay from the assault of uncontrolled growth is just as
>hard on their native population as on you.

Agreed.  I'm worried about Oregon foremost since it is my home - I did
not mean to imply that the CA'ers have singled it out!

[stuff about Oregonians working in CA deleted]
>Oregonians spending part of their working lives in California.  So its not 
>just Californians who are causing the economic problem.  The problem comes 
>from the difference in the two *linked* economies.
 
I think that you are getting some things confused here.  There has never
been, to my knowledge, much of an uproar about Oregonians leaving home to
find work (OR better education), and the results of such can only HELP
Oregon by bringing in money to communities.  This type of activity will
never cause the problems that can be seen in the southern Oregon
communities (esp. on the Coast).  No, the problem is the droves of
retiring CA'ers who sell their little CA houses and come up to Oregon
with tons of cash, drive up the prices of everything, vote down
anything (ie school funding, economic development, etc) that would
possibly threaten their little worlds, and never become part of their
communities.   

>Your Connetticut signature is case in point.  There are a lot of good
>schools in Oregon, but they aren't Yale are they?
 
I do not see what this has to do with anything.  I chose Yale because I
felt it had the most to offer me educationally.  When I graduate, I will
take the knowledge that I gain here and return to Oregon, hopefully to
do some good.  I don't see what my spending a few years out of Oregon
has to do with the destructive and unsympathetic problems created by the
influx of Californians.  Trying to link me to the problems of Oregon
seems utterly ridiculus since there is nothing that I'd rather do than
HELP the people of Oregon. 
-- 
   ______________________________________________________
   | Travis Stansbury, Yale '94  || 2358 Yale Station   |
   | travis@minerva.cis.yale.edu || New Haven, CT 06520 |
   ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Newsgroups: alt.culture.oregon
From: forbesm@atlantis.CS.ORST.EDU (Mark Forbes)
Subject: Re: Woodstocks Pizza
Organization: Computer Science Outreach Services - Oregon State University
Date: Fri, 20 Nov 92 03:26:42 GMT

Woodstock's isn't a chain so much as an isolated set of pizza places catering
to a common theme.

Woodstock's (1) was I believe the Corvallis store.

Later on, they opened in Chico (a small agricultural town with an ag college)
			 Davis ("          "         "   )
           and San Luis Obispo ( "        "          "   )

Does anyone sense a theme here?

They all have the Moo U, but they call it by different names depending on
where you are. The counter help at Davis a few years back was *fascinated*
by my first hand account of the day that the cover photo on the box was taken.

For those of you who've forgotten, that's the picture of the pizzas flying
in like UFO's from somewhere between Witham Hill and Vineyard mountain. I
saw them come in low, evading radar, and settle *right there* on Kings
across from the Waremart. Honest! All the stores use the box, but the 
students serving up the grub just don't get the complete story sometimes.
It's a good thing there's still a few eyewitnesses around....... :-)

Mark G. Forbes | forbesm@atlantis.cs.orst.edu
Corvallis, OR  | 503 757 8416 work phone    | Hardware R & D


Newsgroups: alt.culture.oregon
From: higa@lclark.edu (Keith Higa)
Subject: Re: Wanna Scare Off Californians?
Organization: Lewis & Clark College, Portland OR
Date: Mon, 23 Nov 1992 22:27:24 GMT

In article <1ericvINN45u@flop.ENGR.ORST.EDU> @prism.cs.orst.edu () writes:
>In article <1erfuuINN8ng@agate.berkeley.edu> lindaa@sooth.Berkeley.EDU (Linda Absher) writes:

>I recall one winter when there was measurable rain every day for some
>43 straight days.
 ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

AHA!  God broke his covenant!  He made it rain for 40 days and nights in 
the time of Noah, and here He comes with 43 days...  :-D

-- 
Keith K. Higa                         Lewis & Clark College    
higa@lclark.edu                       Portland, OR, USA
In a hierarchy each member tends to rise to his/her level of incompetence.
                                 --The Peter Principle
Newsgroups: alt.culture.oregon
From: allen@tessi.com (Allen Warren)
Subject: Re: Me be a oregoner
Organization: Test Systems Strategies, Inc., Beaverton, Oregon
Date: Wed, 18 Nov 1992 18:47:54 GMT

dietz@Data-IO.COM (Kent Dietz) writes:

>Also, I hear that the Spruce Goose (Howard Hughes' colossal wooden float
>plane) is being (or has been moved) to McMinnville.  Anyone heard any 
>details on this?  My father-in-law swears that he was in the San Fransisco
>Bay aboard the USS Helena when the Goose took its flight into infamy.  Says
>he came on deck just as the plane cleared the water.  Cool, huh?

Your father-in-law must have GREAT vision, considering the HK-1 made its
one-and-only flight in the Long Beach Harbor!  =)  Maybe the USS Helena was
in Long Beach then?

allen
From: bosticj@CS.ORST.EDU (Jason Bostick)
Newsgroups: alt.culture.oregon
Subject: Re: Woodstocks Pizza
Date: 20 Nov 1992 01:17:33 GMT
Organization: Computer Science Department, Oregon State University
NNTP-Posting-Host: storm.cs.orst.edu

I feel sorry for you Guys...Woodstocks is Great at 10:00 at night.
Newsgroups: alt.culture.oregon
From: wyattr@jacobs.CS.ORST.EDU (Ron Wyatt)
Subject: Re: New thread
Organization: Computer Science Outreach Services - Oregon State University
Date: Thu, 19 Nov 92 05:15:18 GMT

In article <Bxx8An.KBu@unix.amherst.edu> elcranor@unix.amherst.edu (ERICH LEWTHWAITE CRANOR) writes:
>: >I really miss the people from my hometown of Portland.
>: >
>: >Just out of curiosity, are there any native Oregonians out here in LA. 
>: >Maybe we could get together and have a six-pack of Henry's.
>
>	I stayed at school in MA over the summer so I've been away
>from Portland a full year, and it's been the first time in 4 years at
>school that I've started ot get really homesick.  I miss the beaches
>much more than I would have guessed I would.  Henry's, Powell's, laser
>shows, la Patisserie, Rimsky Korsicoffee (or however they spell it),
>the Rhodedendron gardens (a strange one, since I haven't been in
>years), and the gorge, among other things, are definitely missed.
>Beaverton, I don't really miss very much at all.  (I'm specifically
>from Glencullin, a tiny neighborhood between Hillsdale and Raleigh
>Hills, unless one speaks of place of birth in which case I'm from
>Eugene, blah blah blah)
>
>	I'm kind of surprised at the relative dearth of
>Portlanders--but I suppose that's a typical city prejudice.
>
>	I heard, some time ago, about a fire in the gorge, how's it
>looking these days?
>
>	Oh yeah--Willamette Week was much better then the liberal rag
>out here.
>
>Erich Cranor
>[home in a month and counting the days]

As a native Oregonian I was saddened and grieved by the forementioned wild-
fire in the gorge (specifically in the area of Multnomah Falls & Bridal Veil)
but am happy to report it was contained w/ mimimal damage and the actual burn
area consisted of thick underbrush and such and was an asset to the environ-
ment.

Ron Wyatt
.

Newsgroups: alt.culture.oregon
From: lloyd@leland.Stanford.EDU (William Koenig Lloyd)
Subject: Re: Woodstocks Pizza
Organization: DSG, Stanford University, CA 94305, USA
Date: Fri, 20 Nov 92 06:23:02 GMT

In article <1992Nov19.220831.9496@netnews.synoptics.com> franks@synoptics.com writes:
>In article 722203236@zmcipdec1, zrsuk01@zmcipdec1.zdv.uni-tuebingen.de (U. Koch) writes:
>>Nearly the same with me. That's one of the things I miss. But I miss
>>Nearly Normal's a lot more...
>
>Its gone?!?!  I remember when they were in their old place.  
>Decidedly funky.  Their new place was just as funky but in a 
>hippi-yuppie kinda way.  
>
>First it was Nasty Noras in Eugene that disappeared and now 
>Nearly Normals is gone.  Maybe I can't go back to Corvallis.
>
>Whatever you do, don't tell me that Clodfelters is gone.  If it
>is, I'd rather not know.
>
>|Frank Stutzman                    | "Practice makes perfect,
>|SynOptics Communcations, Inc.     |  perfect is a fault,
>|Santa Clara, Ca                   |  and fault lines change"
>|franks@synoptics.com              |             - REM
>
Well, if Nearlys is gone, it's been in the past 2 months, because it was
still there in late September.

Clods is still going as usual.

Bill


Newsgroups: alt.culture.oregon
From: mjb@media.mit.edu (Molly Bancroft)
Subject: I sort of miss Eugene!
Followup-To: other Oregonians
Summary: smell o' pulp, the WOW hall
Keywords: Univ. of Oregon
Organization: MIT Media Laboratory
Distribution: usa
Date: Wed, 18 Nov 1992 22:53:09 GMT

I miss GREEN grass. I miss that foggy beginning to every day,
the soft drizzle, the three-wheel home-made bicycles.  The 
most excellent breakfast places, the Excelsior Cafe, the
jazz community in Eugene (is the oregon electric station still
there?) Um, all those radical marxists still on the faculty!

most of all I miss hopping in a car with a bunch of other people
and going to the coast, renting a cabin for $30 a night, and
having the whole beach to yourself...that wide open untouched surf.

AM I ROMANTICIZING IT????

Ok, some things weren't so great: football, rain, rain, rain.





Newsgroups: alt.culture.oregon
From: mcginnis-john@cs.yale.edu (mcginni)
Subject: Re: Reed College
Organization: Yale University
Date: Mon, 23 Nov 1992 23:00:52 GMT


In article <1992Nov23.223010.11757@reed.edu> pbray@envy.reed.edu (Peter Bray) writes:

> What other reedies read this?
> Also, I think that only people with Oregon email addresses should be  
> allowed to post here!!!
> Go away all you wannabes!
> Peter
> 

Wannabes?  I think not!  I am a native Oregonian who had the misfortune of
thinking that I really wanted to go to school in New England.  :-)  Oh well, I
graduate in 6 months and then hopefully I can reside in Oregon once more!

- mcginni
-- 
--
John McGinnis				There's a feeling I get,
mcginnis-john@yale.edu			When I look to the West,
(203) 436-1504				And my spirit is crying for leaving.
From: pauls@css.itd.umich.edu (Paul Southworth)
Newsgroups: alt.culture.oregon
Subject: Re: Me be a oregoner
Date: 18 Nov 1992 06:03:02 GMT
Organization: University of Michigan ITD Consulting and Support Services
NNTP-Posting-Host: stimpy.css.itd.umich.edu
Originator: news@stimpy.css.itd.umich.edu

In article <1992Nov17.182512.11421@leland.Stanford.EDU> geddy@leland.Stanford.EDU (Scott Schaefer) writes:
>I was a bit surprised to see the word 'culture' in the same sentence
>as 'oregon' tho.

How 'bout llama husbandry?  Tree hugging?  Oregon has lotsa culture.

>My youthful days in the greater Tigard area featured neither ballet 
>nor opera.

Head on down to Ashland, then.
Newsgroups: alt.culture.oregon
From: albert@jomby.cs.wisc.edu (Joseph Albert)
Subject: Re: I sort of miss Eugene!
Keywords: Univ. of Oregon
Organization: Hewlett-Packard Laboratories -- Database Research Dept
Distribution: usa
Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1992 00:39:48 GMT

In article <1992Nov18.225309.11931@news.media.mit.edu> mjb@media.mit.edu (Molly Bancroft) writes:
>I miss GREEN grass. I miss that foggy beginning to every day,
>the soft drizzle, the three-wheel home-made bicycles.  The 
>most excellent breakfast places, the Excelsior Cafe, the
>jazz community in Eugene (is the oregon electric station still
>there?)

don't forget Joe Federigo's jazz bar.
>
>most of all I miss hopping in a car with a bunch of other people
>and going to the coast, renting a cabin for $30 a night, and
>having the whole beach to yourself...that wide open untouched surf.
>
>AM I ROMANTICIZING IT????

well, i think the coast has been sufficiently californicated that you
won't find too many $30/night cabins, or too many beaches that you
can have all ot yourself.

joseph albert
From: dboyes@is.rice.edu (David E Boyes)
Newsgroups: alt.culture.oregon
Subject: Re: New thread
Date: 19 Nov 92 03:01:37 GMT
Organization: Rice University

In article <1992Nov17.232135.250@leland.Stanford.EDU> geddy@leland.Stanford.EDU (Scott Schaefer) writes:
>What do you miss most about the Beaver State?

Silence 
Seasons
Cougar Hot Springs (about an hour into the mountains from
       Eugene). 
UO HC. (If you don't know, you won't understand).
Oregon Bach Festival.
_Jesu meine Freude_ a cappella in the Chapman Hall stairway
the bell at the 3rd floor window in Chapman 
DeFrisco's on warm summer evenings
Hot chocolate at the Glenwood on cold winter evenings
chili at Guido's
cheap lunches at Bamboo Pavilion
Animal House in 150 Geology
Rocky & Bullwinkle in 180 PLC  - booing Snidely Whiplash with 400 of
       your comrades.


(formerly dboyes@drizzle.cs.uoregon.edu, or
556@oregon1, or [10377,556].




-- 
David Boyes
dboyes@rice.edu
From: reidyj@CS.ORST.EDU (Jay Reidy)
Newsgroups: alt.culture.oregon
Subject: Re: Why Anti-California?
Date: 20 Nov 1992 03:35:33 GMT
Organization: Computer Science Department, Oregon State University
NNTP-Posting-Host: storm.cs.orst.edu

In article <1ehiutINNqkj@agate.berkeley.edu> lindaa@portent.Berkeley.EDU (Linda Absher) writes:
>In article <1egl54INNq8h@flop.ENGR.ORST.EDU> @prism.cs.orst.edu () writes:
>>
>>Some of the great things about Oregon are being able to go wherever
>>you damn well please in jeans and a sweater.  The epitome of automotive
  Yeah, but I'd like to wear a tie more often than when I got to a
  job interview!  Maybe it's a little too casual here.


Newsgroups: alt.culture.oregon
From: hjstrayer@violet.uwaterloo.ca (Heidi Strayer)
Subject: Re: new thread
Organization: University of Waterloo
Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1992 15:48:16 GMT

What I miss about Oregon:

Honeymen Park, sand dunes, driftwood laden beaches, small coastal villages,
  the coastal highway
Clean lakes, fast moving rivers, water falls, the lush forests, fruit picking
Year round snow capped mountains, Crater Lake, Mount Hood, Three Sisters ...
The Reindeer farm and red roads near Redmond, Peterson's Rock Garden near
    Bend, the lava fields and caves, hunting for thunder eggs
The cities which I came to know Eugene and Portland, and the towns of 
    McMinnville, Madras
From: reidyj@CS.ORST.EDU (Jay Reidy)
Newsgroups: alt.culture.oregon
Subject: Re: Influx of Californians? Gee--what a surprise!
Date: 22 Nov 92 21:45:20 GMT
Organization: College of Engineering, Oregon State University
NNTP-Posting-Host: storm.cs.orst.edu


Yeah, and they're all on welfare!  In fact, the tax base of
California is leaving.  McDonald Doublass pulled out of Long Beach
for somewher in the south.  15,000 jobs--gone.  Apple, Intel, HP
aren't building OR hiring in California, but they are in Atlanta,
Dallas etc.

TRW laid off 6,000 people in California.  Hughes Helicopter closed 
down and left for cleaner, cheaper better digs.

With the lone possbility of New York, California has the highest
personal income taxes, corporate taxes and restriction  of any state
in the country.

If I can get tax credits for opening a 250,000 square foot plant in
Memphis, Tennessee and can hire quality engineers for, on the
average, $15k less than in California where am I going to go?  Duh!

Does UCLA produce better programmers than Texas-Austin?  Is the
medical care in Pensacola worse than in LA.  Am I going to get sued
in Virginia because one of my employees cuts his thumb on a pop-top
at a company party?

In 1990, the only piece of legislation to come out of Sacramento was
whether or not a veterinarian or just an animal handler could floss a
dog's teeth!  When Jerry Brown was governor of California,the state
had a 2/3 Democratic majority in both houses of the Lesislature, and
the only property tax relief they could deliver was written by a 
lame duch Repbulican.  You guys got Prop 13 and did nothing for
10 years and now you have a $12-Billion budget shortfall, and wnent
59 (?) days with no budget at all.

California is a disgrace to the nation, but as long as you have
air conditioned BMWs, to clog the freeways, where it takes mroe than
an hour to go from Pasadena to Long Beach at midnight (30 miles), you
won't figure it out!

Keep pretending you are the nation's trend setters.  And please keep
sending us your unemployed techies. You'l only get $25K for what you
were getting $50K for in California, but you can buy a four bedroom
house for $85K with 10 acres of land AND ride your bike to work, not
have it stolen and you won't have to carry a gun with you (unless
you're going after deer or pheasant or elk).
From: stansbury-travis@yale.edu (Travis Stansbury)
Newsgroups: alt.culture.oregon
Subject: Re: Why Anti-California?
Date: 18 Nov 1992 03:19:45 -0500
Organization: Yale University
Distribution: world
NNTP-Posting-Host: minerva.cis.yale.edu

In article <1ect72INNog7@terminator.rs.itd.umich.edu> pauls@css.itd.umich.edu (Paul Southworth) writes:
>This is EXACTLY what happened in my home town of Ashland.  Now it is
>a half-yuppie, half-geriatric community.  Property prices and taxes have
>skyrocketed, housing shortages are severe, making it virtually impossible
>to find reasonably priced rental properties, pushing more and more of the
>poorer residents into the semi-rural trailer parks in the surrounding 
>areas, school funding has been cut by the old folx too.  Tourism is one
>thing (that I can live with) but then all these people go "oh what a 
>quaint little town, let's get a summer house!"  Ack.
 
My parents moved to the coast (Coos Bay) after I left home for college,
and the real estate market there is unreal.  In some areas property
prices have literally sky-rocketed, tripling in short periods of time.
Even mobile homes have went up in value on some land (no joke).  The
effect is to take these homes out of the range of many native
Oregonians.  Besides the problems of the real estate market, the influx
of a demographically and often socially (I say that with care) different
group creates other problems as mentioned above and elsewhere.  But what
can be done?  Should things be done?  Would they be legal?  ... At least
I can still say that I've yet to find a place that I'd rather live in -
and I guess that is the most important thing, after all...



-- 
   ______________________________________________________
   | Travis Stansbury, Yale '94  || 2358 Yale Station   |
   | travis@minerva.cis.yale.edu || New Haven, CT 06520 |
   ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Newsgroups: alt.culture.oregon
From: mikelee@oregon.uoregon.edu (Mike Lee)
Subject: Re: Pronunciations (was Re: Help wanted.)
Organization: University of Oregon
Date: Fri, 20 Nov 92 18:44:03 GMT

In article <1992Nov20.104857.26079@jarvis.csri.toronto.edu>,
stephas@explorer-dgp.dgp (Tamara Stephas) writes:
> 
> More stories for the "Pronouncing Gazetteer of Oregon <OR-uh-g'n> Placenames,"

Please excuse the following rant...

ORYGUN! ORYGUN! ORYGUN!

Thank you for your patience.

..Mike Lee, Old Orygun Magazine
..mikelee@oregon.uoregon.edu
Newsgroups: alt.culture.oregon
From: gclapp@javelin.sim.es.com (Glenn Clapp)
Subject: Re: Yet another 'goner...
Organization: Evans & Sutherland Corp.
Distribution: usa
Date: Sat, 21 Nov 1992 00:10:41 GMT

In article <CORYWEST.92Nov17161459@rio-grande.is.rice.edu> corywest@is.rice.edu (Cory West) writes:
>
>
>	Well, I can't believe my eyes :-).  I'm from Talent
>(near Medford and Ashland).  Anyone else from this area?
>
>	Cory West

Me, Me, Me, ME!  Holton Road (THat's off Yank Gulch, which is off
Wagner Creek Road).  It be nice up there.  I miss much.

-- 
=============================================================================
= Glenn Clapp                          |  gclapp@thunder.sim.es.com         =
= Evans and Sutherland Computer Corp.  |  My opinions are my own, but then  =
= Salt Lake City, Utah  (801) 582-5847 |  that's my opinion.                =
From: corywest@is.rice.edu (Cory West)
Newsgroups: alt.culture.oregon
Subject: Re: A Good Home
Date: 19 Nov 92 07:17:39 GMT
Organization: Well, none really, but I know where my socks are!


>  Wow. The way you guys talk about it, I'm homesick for Corvallis too!
>  Strange since I've never lived more than 2 hours from the Atlantic.
>  People need a home more than they need a place to live.
>
>  Comments?


	Only that you're completely right.  Sigh, this is making
me homesick.
Newsgroups: alt.culture.oregon
From: daye@jacobs.CS.ORST.EDU (J. Q. Gumby)
Subject: Re: Help wanted.
Organization: Computer Science Outreach Services - Oregon State University
Date: Wed, 18 Nov 92 19:58:36 GMT

In article <1992Nov18.174828.20560@lclark.edu> higa@lclark.edu (Keith Higa) writes:
>In article <1ecmfqINNns1@terminator.rs.itd.umich.edu> pauls@css.itd.umich.edu (Paul Southworth) writes:
>>In article <1992Nov17.212652.9570@leland.Stanford.EDU> geddy@leland.Stanford.EDU (Scott Schaefer) writes:
>>>There's a good idea for this newsgroup!  Let's put together an FAQ for
>>>pronunciation of Oregon cities.  I cringe when I hear people 
>>>mis-pronounce Tigard.  (Correct: TIE-gard, Incorrect: tiggerd).
>>>
>>>Here's a start:
>>>Salem  SAY-lem
>>>Portland  PORT-lund.
>>>Eugene  you-GENE
>>>Oregon City  OR-uh-gun SIT-ee  (gun, not gone)
>>>Metzger  METZ-ger
>>
>>Perhaps adding Aloha and The Dalles would be appropriate.
>                ^^^^^
Don't forget this one:
Willamette wi-LAM-it

Don't even ask how many times I've been asked if I'm from the wil-uh-MET
valley (*cringe*)

(Ignore my .sig -- I'm in Alaska now)

-- 
|Evan Day                | "Plans made in the nursery can change the
|daye@jacobs.CS.ORST.EDU |  course of history.  Remember that."
|^^^^ - preferred e-mail |                          - M. L. Gore               
|FSEJD1@acad3.alaska.edu | Okay, now just who's opinion is that up there?
Newsgroups: alt.culture.oregon
From: merlyn@ora.com (Randal L. Schwartz)
Subject: Re: Why Anti-California?
Organization: Stonehenge Consulting Services; Portland, Oregon, USA
Date: Wed, 18 Nov 1992 18:36:12 GMT

In article <1ecpp5INN7bl@MINERVA.CIS.YALE.EDU> stansbury-travis@yale.edu (Travis Stansbury) writes:
   [....] it is a fear that the continuing droves of retiring
   Californians with lots of cash will overrun our beautiful state and
   cause all sorts of problems: high property prices due to high purchasing
   power of CA money because of high CA prop. values relative to OR prices,
   voting down school-funding (retirees w/o kids), overcrowding, higher
   crime rates (doubtful), more cars, etc., etc.  I don't think that most
   people are completely serious about being anti-CA, but there is some
   legitimate fear especially amoung the smaller communities.  

And don't forget (yuck) sales tax and (double yuck) pump-it-yerself
gas.  Ptui!

Of course, the *real* gripe I have with the californicators is the
stoopid "bizpark" designers that put a silly concrete divider down the
middle, not realizing that we oregonians cannot make U-turns at the
lights.  What ever happened to simply painting a center lane???

Sigh.

Just another native-born (in "Oregon City"... can't get more Oregonian than that),

--
Randal L. Schwartz / Stonehenge Consulting Services (503)777-0095
merlyn@ora.com (semi-permanent) merlyn@reed.edu (for newsreading only)
factoid: "Portland, Oregon, home of the California Raisins and Lone-Star Beer!"
Newsgroups: alt.culture.oregon