From: gauri@ux1.cso.uiuc.edu (Gauri Pavate)
Subject: Re: Arrogant Indians and Susan Forgach
Organization: University of Illinois at Urbana
Date: Tue, 15 Sep 1992 21:54:20 GMT

nyikos@math.scarolina.edu (Peter Nyikos) writes:

>In <BuDCqL.Hp0@ux1.cso.uiuc.edu> gauri@ux1.cso.uiuc.edu (Gauri Pavate) writes:


>>	Well, actually it is found that most abortions in the U.S.
>>do take place quite early on in pregnancy and much before the
>>viability of the fetus.

>>	About 91 percent of all abortions are found to occur in the 
>>first trimester (1-12 weeks), about 9 percent occur in the second
>>trimester (13-24 weeks), and only  .001 percent occur in the third
>>trimester (past 24 weeks) when the fetus is considered viable.

>There are several distortions here.

>1.  Viability can occur as early as 19 weeks.


	From what I've read fetal viability (the capacity for
sustained survival outside the uterus) is currently considered
to be at around 24 weeks.  Apparently a fetus cannot be sustained
even with a respirator until at least 23 weeks.  And a 1989
report by scientists says that this scene is not likely to
change in the near future.  

	However, this is in general.  Its possible for the point 
of viability to vary in certain pregnancies.  And where this has
been an issue, the Supreme Court seems to have ruled that viability
must be determined by the physician with reference to the specific
case involved.  This rules out any arbitrary application of 
definitions.


>2.  Putting the beginning of the 3rd trimester at 24 weeks is
>mathematically incorrect.  Correct is close to the end of the 26th
>week.

	Why is this mathematically incorrect?  At any rate
the definitions of trimesters that I quoted are based upon
medical definitions offered by physicians.


>3. .001 percent of 1,600,000 is taken by dropping the last five
>zeros and arriving at 16.  No quoted figure is this low.  Perhaps
>the intended figure was .01 percent.

	Yes, I'm afraid that should've read .01 percent (and not
.001 percent)!  I'm really sorry for the mistake. 

>3.  The figure of .01 percent is based on what abortionists admit
>to, and ignores the fact that the most famous 3rd trimester abortionist,
>"Killer" Tiller of Wichita, places the beginning of the 3rd trimester
>at the end of the 26th week.

	I don't know what you mean in this case.  The figures are
based not on anybody's admissions but on research.  And research
shows that abortions after the 26th week are rare (can you provide
figures to the contrary?).  Don't know anything about this person
you are referring to.  If any physician is breaking any law,
they should be held responsible.


>>	Factors accounting for abortions after the first trimester
>>include undiagnosed pregnancies (especially among teenagers),
>>unforseen tragedy in the woman's life, medical complications, severe
>>defects in the fetus, etc. 

>The etc. includes abortions for gender selection.  [Query: does chorionic
>villi sampling detect gender?  Is chorionic villi sampling widely available
>in India?]  Very relevant to India, and to leave it
>out is bordering on dishonesty.

	Well, I did not talk about gender selection because I was
really talking about the U.S.  Gender selection is definitely
an issue in India.  However, to my knowledge, almost every
Indian group that supports reproductive freedom considers
gender selection to be an abuse of the abortion facility.  Most
groups have called for a strict monitoring of the amniocentesis
procedure which can among other things detect the sex of the fetus.
It has been proposed that results from amniocentesis should be made
available only for determining the health of the fetus and not
to reveal the gender.  I think concerned physicians' groups and
women's groups are working on legal and other strategies to 
effectively implement this.


>>	However, the very few but absolutely late third trimester
>>abortions occuring after fetal viabilty are found to invariably
>>take place only when the woman's health is at grave risk.

>This is completely false.  Tiller's ad for abortions after the 26th
>week makes no mention of "grave risk" to the woman's health, but
>it does mention fetal deformity.


	Again, the research that I have come across show that
abortions after the 26th week are v. rare and that women do
not have access to them until their health and life is at 
risk.  Again, have no idea of this person you are talking
about and based upon whom you are making generalizations and
allegations.  If there is anything illegal going on anywhere,  
it should certainly be investigated.


					Gauri.