From: gmark@cbnewse.cb.att.com (gilbert.m.stewart)
Subject: Re: Another thought...(Not even close)
Organization: AT&T
Date: Tue, 5 Jan 1993 17:07:52 GMT

In article <1ibdriINNtmb@ub.d.umn.edu> jgregory@ub.d.umn.edu (jennifer gregory) writes:
>
>In article <93004.153005FDMWINK@UCF1VM.BITNET> <FDMWINK@UCF1VM.BITNET> "Larry Wink" writes:
>>An example of what's wrong with the current educational system (and society
>>as a whole) - let's not ever hold someone reponsible for their actions.
>>Well, jimi, there is obviously no need for a bright boy like you to be wasting
>>his time in college.  After all, what will you end up with?  Some marks on
>>a piece of paper arbitrarily attesting to your knowledge and ability to learn.
>>Run, don't walk, out to the real world.  Its just waiting for another bright
>>boy who knows it all.  An attitude like yours will be justly rewarded.
>>
>
>
>
>I think you've completely missed his point.  If the point of a class is to
>teach one how to perform one specific skill, and consists of nothing but
>repitition of that particular skill, the student who, halfway through the
>course, has mastered the skill should not be penalized for wanting to move

I think we might be reminded at this point of something.  If I were to
tell the professor in that class, "I didn't know we had to do the work
to get a good grade," then I would expect him to laugh at me.

If I were to tell the professor, "I chose to not do the work because
I thought it was stupid," I would not be surprised to hear him say, "Well,
that's your decision, but that is my criteria, and you can't complain
about your grade."

If I were to tell the professor at the point I made my decision, "I
am bored by this.  I know the material.  I'd like something more
challenging," then it is his decision to provide that new challenge,
or to disagree, in which case it is the student's responsibility to
either do the work, or refuse and take the lesser grade (or drop out).

If the student said, "Oh, I could do that, but I just don't want to,"
how is the professor supposed to verfy that other than to ask the
student to do the work or prove it some other way.  And if the
professor designed the course material, I'd say it was highly
probable that the professor thought it was challenging, and might
be hard to convince otherwise.  I'm not sure I would believe the
student, either.

If the professor said, "You have to wear a green hat to class to
pass," you have the choice of wearing the hat, refusing to wear the
hat, or finding some other way to change this requirement, either
by convincing the professor or his superiors.  You have to DO
SOMETHING.  NOT JUST COMPLAIN.

In the end, it is the student's responsibility to either do the
work, or shut up and take the poor grade, or to look for other
things to do.  You make your choice, you take the risk.

I hear all the time about folks who know they're very smart but
don't want to be tested or evaluated in any way to prove it.  It's
fine to take that position, but it's not fine to demand any kind of
recognition or reward without having produced output.  That's
one of the reasons doctors and lawyers and engineers and scientists
have to do lots of "un-fun" stuff in school to get a degree prior
to getting a job.  I personally don't go to doctors that learned
their trade at home.

GMS
Newsgroups: rec.org.mensa