HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: terra@athena.mit.edu (Terra Incognita)
Subject: Re: sexism in Judaism
Organization: MIT - DMSE and Bait
Date: Thu, 5 Nov 1992 13:52:26 GMT

In article <1992Nov5.031930.25348@cis.ohio-state.edu> khaikin@neptune.cis.ohio-state.edu (dmitry khaikin) writes:
>
>I am not sure how to answer that. Maybe you could ask me specific
>questions about it... Although, I believe in Hashem and am an Orthodox,
>so my views would be Orthodox as well. I don't understand and don't know
>a lot of things about the proper woman's position in society, but I do
>accept those that I do know and that are in Torah. If I don't understand
>something I ask and learn. That is one of the differences between Jews
>and goyim: Jews never stop learning.

Excuse me, but where is it written that you should insult the goyim
like this?  Dima, I respect your opinions, and I understand that you
have scriptural support for most of them, but that last comment there
is really the limit.  Yes, Judaism places a higher value on education
than many other cultures (one of it's biggest attractions for me, btw),
but that doesn't mean that all goyim are ignorant or uninterested in
learning things beyond their MBA.  Whether or not I ultimately end up
converting, even if I remain a shikseh all my life, I never intend to
stop learning.  Give the goyim some credit, they're part of G-d's
creation too!

--
Terra Incognita                             terra@athena.mit.edu
Massachusetts Institute of Technology, Cambridge, MA    USA
"Work. Worry. Consume. Die. It's a wonderful life." (Lippy)
From: weemba@sagi.wistar.upenn.edu (Matthew P Wiener)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
Subject: Re: Prayer shawls
Date: 12 Nov 92 17:13:59 GMT
Reply-To: weemba@sagi.wistar.upenn.edu (Matthew P Wiener)
Organization: The Wistar Institute of Anatomy and Biology
In-reply-to: carroll@hercules.cis.udel.edu (Mark C. Carroll)

In article <1992Nov12.154123.27080@udel.edu>, carroll@hercules (Mark C. Carroll) writes:
>Gads, what's with all you guys and wool? 

Wool and linen are the only clothing d'oraisa.  Rabbinical leniencies
permit other materials.  Linen is apparently too coarse to be made into
threads, so wool is the winner.

>What's a poor guy like me who's violently allergic to wool supposed to do?

Go naked d'oraisa.
-- 
-Matthew P Wiener (weemba@sagi.wistar.upenn.edu)
From: engelson-sean@cs.yale.edu (Sean Philip Engelson)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
Subject: Re: Noach question...
Date: 5 Nov 1992 09:17:27 -0500
Organization: Yale AI Mobile Robotics Project
Distribution: world
NNTP-Posting-Host: terminator.ai.cs.yale.edu


In article <4NOV199215174825@utkvx2.utk.edu>, egw@utkvx2.utk.edu (Wolpert, Edward Greenwal) writes:
|>         Going back to last week's dvar,... I was talking to a friend, and
|> we were discussing about fish and Noach.  Specifically, did Noach bring two
|> fish on board (For each kind)?  I'm looking to create a discussion about
|> this, and profess no 'true' wisdom on this.  

Well, the issue seems relatively clear from the text.  In Breshit 6:20:

	From the birds by their species and from the land animals by their
	species, and from the crawling things by their species; two from each
	will come to you to be saved.

So it seems that the fish were note included.  A better question than the
"storm" aspect of fish survival is the difference between salt-water and
fresh-water fish---since the whole world was covered in water, it was either
all salt or all fresh.  This could cause serious problems for some of the fish.
Any ideas??

	-Shlomo-
-- 
Sean Philip (Shlomo) Engelson		
Yale Department of Computer Science	
Box 2158 Yale Station			
New Haven, CT 06520			
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
From: er@iscp.Bellcore.COM (Elie Rosenfeld)
Subject: Re: Jewish Movies on Video?
Reply-To: er@iscp.Bellcore.COM (Elie Rosenfeld)
Organization: Bell Communications Research (Bellcore)
Date: Mon, 9 Nov 92 16:12:40 GMT

In article <83150@ut-emx.uucp>, etzhadat@ccwf.cc.utexas.edu (Hydro Man) writes:
|> Negative Stereotype of Jewish woman
|> Night Shift (H. Winkler, his first girl friend, her family)

Jewish?  I didn't get that at all.  Granted, she was neurotic, but her parents
were real old-fashioned southern Baptist types.  Remember her dad's "Mrs. ??? 
and I do *NOT* drink...", and also his use of the term "harlot" for prostitute.
--
Elie Rosenfeld      | "I am what I am, Leila -- and if there are self-made
Bellcore            |  purgatories, then we all must live in them.
Piscataway, N.J.    |  Mine is no worse than someone else's."
(908) 699-8800      |                     - Spock, "This Side of Paradise"
Xref: sparky soc.culture.jewish:19382 misc.headlines:6949 talk.politics.misc:58692 misc.legal:19638
From: thf2@ellis.uchicago.edu (Mmmm... Purple)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish,misc.headlines,talk.politics.misc,soc.culture.african-american,misc.legal
Subject: Re: Say it ain't so
Date: 6 Nov 92 21:54:01 GMT
Article-I.D.: midway.1992Nov6.215401.20508
Reply-To: thf2@midway.uchicago.edu
Organization: University of Chicago Computing Organizations

In article <BxAv09.FKo@world.std.com> srm@world.std.com (Stevens R Miller) writes:
>>Stevens,  you're the one who brought up the mixed jury idea.
>
>So?  Jack suggests that facts can't be found by a mixed jury, unless the
>mix includes Jews when the victim is a Jew.  I say the facts were determinable
>by the mix that existed in the Nelson trial:  Six blacks, three hispanics
>and three whites.  Is anyone claiming that adding a Jew to that mix would have
>improved its ability to find facts?

As I recall, the Rodney King-beating case jury was a "mixed" jury.  That
didn't stop complaints that there were no blacks on the jury.
-- 
ted frank                     | thf2@ellis.uchicago.edu 
also at quibeaux@uchicago.edu | standard disclaimers | void where prohibited
the university of chicago law school, chicago, illinois 60637
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
From: daver@ECE.ORST.EDU (Dave Rabinowitz)
Subject: Halakhah (was Re: Conversion Question)
Organization: ECE Dept.,OSU,Corvallis
Date: Tue, 10 Nov 1992 17:19:52 GMT

In article <10Nov92.035339.18650@granite.ciw.edu> cohen@quartz.ciw.edu (Ronald Cohen) writes:
>I don't know how they can think they are "the legitimate..."
>when they don't even accept the concept of halacha.

I understand that at one time it was forbidden to write down the "oral" law and
that only later it became acceptable.  Why was it originally forbidden and why
was this ban later lifted?  Was there a major change in how the law was
developed when this change occurred?  Thanks.
From: hillel@cbnewsf.cb.att.com (hillel.e.markowitz)
Subject: Re: NEED SOME KNOWLEDGE ABOUT JUDAISM
Organization: AT&T Federal Systems
Date: Tue, 10 Nov 1992 20:22:30 GMT

In article <101385@bu.edu> simon1@bass.bu.edu (Simon Streltsov) writes:
>The following seems to be a good answer, but may violate copyright!
>
>>> I need some knowledge about judaism, could somebody send some basic knowledge
>>> about judaism.!!!!!!!!
>>do not unto others as you would not have them do unto you. the rest is
>>commentary. go and study it.
>>
>>Seth L. Ness                         Ness Gadol Hayah Sham
>~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>>ness@aecom.yu.edu                      
>
>Shouldn'y the signuture say : Hillel (-:[
>
>Simon


I didn't see the original post in time.

If you meant the original Hillel, he doesn't have net access at
this time.

_______________________________________________________________
| Hillel Markowitz        |    Im ain ani li mi li             |
| H_Markowitz@att.com     |    Veahavta Leraiecha Kamocha      |
|_________________________|____________________________________|
Organization: The American University - University Computing Center
Date: Sun, 8 Nov 1992 21:59:06 EST
From: <CARIAN@auvm.american.edu>
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
Subject: Re: McDonalds in Israel
 <92313.2013142893684@QUCDN.QueensU.CA>

In article <92313.2013142893684@QUCDN.QueensU.CA>, andy
<2893684@QUCDN.QueensU.CA> says:
>
>In article <1dkd2iINNbv9@usenet.INS.CWRU.Edu>, bc744@cleveland.Freenet.Edu    k
>(Mar
>Ira Kaufman) says:
>>
>>Is there a chance it will be kosher???
>>
>Kosher Cheeseburgers?  Their milkshakes don't have any milk anyway so at least
>they won't have a problem there (why do you think they call them "shakes")
>
My speculation is that McD's will probably follow the pattern of the other
Israeli hamburger chains -- Kosher in Jerusalem, treif elsewhere.

Actually kosher cheeseburgers are no big trick.  I have had plenty --
either by using parve "soycheese" on a real hamburger (which I have
not done for some time, having adopted vegetarianism some months ago)
or by using real cheese on parve burgers (like those made by Kibbutz
Lochamei Hagetaot, known as Tivoll in Israel and imported to the US
under the brand name Garden Gourment).

Worthington Farms also makes good vegetarian hamburgers (called Grillers)
but these are certified O-K Dairy.

I am waiting for someone to invent totally artificial food which can be eaten
on Yom Kippur without violating the fast. :-)

Rabbi Charles Arian
CARIAN@american.edu

Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
From: cohen@quartz.ciw.edu (Ronald Cohen)
Subject: Re: Conversion Question
Date: 09 Nov 92 14:20:10 GMT
Organization: Geophysical Laboratory, CIW

In article <1992Nov9.004613.1437@cbnewsl.cb.att.com> stank@cbnewsl.cb.att.com (Stan Krieger) writes:
>
>Oh boy, here we go again.  Well folks, here's another reality
>reminder.  Maybe this time it will sink in-
>
>    1.	Orthodox Jews do not "own" our religion; theirs is but
>	one legitimate INTERPRETATION of what God expects from
>	all of us Jews!

I must say that I agree with Mr.  Krieger whole-heartedly.  In
fact, the controversy between O and C seems very much to me like
the controversy between Bet Shamai and Bet Hillel--you can guess
which I equate with which.  Controversy, though, is not
necessarily bad--"A controversy in the name of heaven will lead to
something permanent."

I think what galls Conservative Jews the most is the Orthodox
attitude of "all or nothing," and that only the Orthodox are true
jews.  Meanwhile Conservatives think that their approach better
follows the traditions of the great rabbis.  It is a historical
approach to Judaism that accepts the fact that the interpretation
of the halacha has always changed to meet new historical
circumstances, and that the law was given us for life.  The
emphasis of the law was always on ethical treatment of fellow men,
and the O's often SEEM to us C's to have forgotten that basic
principle.

I think this newsgroup is great place for cross-denominational
discussion, and I do not see why discussions have to turn into
flame wars.  However, every critical discussion is not a flame
war.  We have to consider other opinions and learn from each
other.  This newsgroup is not soc.culture.jewish.orthodox, nor
is it soc.culture.jewish.conservative, and I think that is good.
We need to talk to each other and accept each other as Jews.

And to add to what Stan Krieger said, the antisemites of the
world do not care if we are reform, conservative, or orthodox.
We need to stick together.  But on the other hand, that does not
make heated discussion bad, as long as we accept the standing of
the other groups.  The point here in this whole thread is the O
position that does not even accept the standing of a C bet din.
That should be hard for everyone to swallow--not just O's.
-- 
Ronald Cohen
Geophysical Laboratory, Carnegie Institution of Washington
5251 Broad Branch Rd., N.W.,  Washington, D.C. 20015
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
From: dfs@doe.carleton.ca (David F. Skoll)
Subject: Re: Why I think Kach's policies are racist (AND DANGEROUS)
Organization: Dept. of Electronics, Carleton University
Date: Wed, 11 Nov 1992 02:00:33 GMT

In <1992Nov10.225824.3490@news.tufts.edu> nraclaw@jade.tufts.edu
(Nissan Raclaw) writes:

>To recap, indeed.  By your definition, Israel itself is racist, for in
>its PRESENT policies it distinguishes between Jews and non-Jews. Like
>say in the Law of Return and the policies of the JNF.

Those are two separate issues.  I've already argued that I see the Law of
Return as non-racist, more like an affirmative action program.

The JNF, as a non-government organization, theoretically has the right
to set whatever rules it likes.  But since it controls most of the
non-privately-owned land in Israel, its policies are, as you say,
racist.

>Secondly, it is
>not Kahane who forbids marriage between a Jew and a non-Jew: it is
>Judaism itself.

I agree.  However, if you say that Israel is a democratic state, then
the government has no business in breaking apart mixed marriages which
have already occurred.

>Now, if you are prepared to say that Judaism and Israel
>are both inherently racist, that's a logical position that at least is
>coherent

I do not believe that Judaism is racist.  The laws on marriage are
observed only by those whose conscience tells them to; there is
no human authority which can forbid a Jew from breaking those laws.
It is entirely up to the individual, who can act without governmental
coercion.

I do not believe, either, that Israel is inherently racist, although
it's difficult to justify the continuing policies of the JNF.

>however, neither of the things you described above are solely
>the Kahanism which you so detest.

Agreed.  However, what is solely indicative of the Kahanism which
I detest is the desire to strip non-Jews of whatever rights they
currently enjoy in Israel; to force the expulsion of long-time
residents of Eretz Israel; and to discriminate against non-religious
or non-Orthodox Jews.

Furthermore, the policies of Kach, if carried out, would have the
following consequences - I assure you that they are easily predicted:

1 - Most of the world would cut diplomatic and economic ties with
    Israel.

2 - Israel would suffer the same fate as Yugoslavia - economic
    sanctions and expulsion from the U.N.

3 - The Arab nations would unite as never before, posing a grave
    threat to Israel's existence.

4 - The internal divisions among Israeli Jews would reach the
    boiling point.

So you see, that even if you don't think Kach's policies are racist,
they should be fought simply because of the terrible danger they pose
to Israel and the Jewish people.

--
                     |         | "Step up and shake the hand
David F. Skoll       | ||||||| |  Of someone you can't stand,
|_ _ _  __   __ _ __ |  \\V//  |  You can tolerate him if you try..."
 / |  | |_|   | |  | |  __|__  |  -- Tom Lehrer, "National Brotherhood Week"
_____|________________________________________________________________________
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
From: dzk@cs.brown.edu (Danny Keren)
Subject: Re: Bobby Fischer's anti-semitism
Organization: Brown University Department of Computer Science
Date: Thu, 12 Nov 1992 05:18:35 GMT

Perhaps I should update my previous poster: Fischer beat Spassky
10-5 (without counting the draws) and, it seems, will next play
16 year old prodigy Judith Polgar, a Hungarian Jewish girl. My
estimate is that he will win. However, I find it very hard to
believe he can match today's leading players, like Kasparov,
Timmen, Anandan and the rest.

-Danny Keren.
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
From: ben@vmsa.technion.ac.il
Subject: Re: Pierced Ears
Organization: Computer Center, Technion IIT 
Date: Mon, 9 Nov 1992 14:28:18 GMT

In article <96449@netnews.upenn.edu> weemba@sagi.wistar.upenn.edu (Matthew P
Wiener) writes:
>In article <1992Nov6.015337.5246@msuinfo.cl.msu.edu>, friedenb@topaz (Gedaliah
Friedenberg) writes:
>>Men should not dress as women, and thus earrings are forbidden for men
>>is understood.
>
>But men can dress as men, so earrings are permitted.
>
>What is men's clothing vs what is women's clothing depends on your culture.
Could not a pierced ear be forbidden based on what is the sign that slave must
do to indenture himself?
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
Organization: Queen's University at Kingston
Date: Fri, 6 Nov 1992 15:50:37 EDT
From: andy <2893684@QUCDN.QueensU.CA>
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
Subject: Re: Was the Holocaust Unique?

In as much as Jewish history is concerned, past efforts against the Jews have
been of a religious nature in as much as individuals would usually be spared
if they converted, the Nazis couldn't care less if you were religious, not
religious, assimilated, unassimilated, even being a convert to Christianity
wouldn't spare you.

While there have been other attempts in history to eliminate a people, none
have been as delibirate, as determined as methodical as the Holocaust. Groups
which in the past have tried to wipe out populations (turks against armenians;
or the current "ethnic cleansing" in ex-Yugoslavia) would be satisfied if the
target population emigrated. The ultimate aim of the Holocaust was to kill
every Jew on Earth. This is incomprable to anything else in history.
From: bc744@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Mark Ira Kaufman)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
Subject: Re: Belief and science (Einstein)
Date: 11 Nov 92 13:40:18 GMT
Organization: Case Western Reserve University, Cleveland, Ohio (USA)
NNTP-Posting-Host: thor.ins.cwru.edu


   ...and then there was Aryah Kaplan.

-- 
   "One can be a racist.  Or one can be a human being.  But one
may not be both."
                                 - Rabbi Abraham Joshua heschel
Organization: Queen's University at Kingston
Date: Wed, 11 Nov 1992 20:49:40 EDT
From: andy <2893684@QUCDN.QueensU.CA>
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
Subject: Re: Bobby Fischer's anti-semitism

In article <BxKr7w.JDz@acsu.buffalo.edu>, v206gb6c@ubvmsb.cc.buffalo.edu (IS AN
ILLEGAL PERSONAL NAME) says:
>
>    I just read that former chess champion Bobby Fischer blames his quitting
>world chess play on the Jews.  The article also said he has made other
>anti-semitic remarks in the past.  Can anyone comment on this?

Bobby Fischer is borderline paranoid/schizophrenic. He's convinced everyone is
out to get him. His mother is Jewish and I guess he has some complex about her
and is striking out with extreme lalaland anti-semitism. He joined the
Worldwide Church of God in the 70s but I don't know what his current faith is.
he's a strange cookie indeed.
Organization: University of Illinois at Chicago
Date: Sunday, 8 Nov 1992 21:45:00 CST
From: KAZI ASIMUDDIN <U46833@uicvm.uic.edu>
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
Subject: NEED SOME KNOWLEDGE ABOUT JUDAISM

I need some knowledge about judaism, could somebody send some basic knowledge
about judaism.!!!!!!!!

Thank you
From: chaim@linc.cis.upenn.edu (Chaim R. Dworkin)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
Subject: Any Israeli grammer school teachers out there?
Date: 5 Nov 92 14:46:55 GMT
Organization: University of Pennsylvania


The kids at my local Solomon Schechter Day School have expressed an
interest in corresponding via e-mail with kids in Israel and Jewish kids
in other countries.  Are there any teachers out there of kids ages 6-12,
who have access to the net and are willing to do a joint learning
experience with kids in the US?  Is there someone in Israel reading this
with sufficient interest to give access to your account to a teacher a
couple times a week so the kids can correspond?

I'd like to set up a kids' list and try doing some joint social studies
curricula based on kids corresponding as pen pals.  The kids could learn
a lot about each other.

To make sure I see your reply please respond via e-mail to either of my
addresses: 

chaim@linc.cis.upenn.edu
dworkin@israel.nysernet.org

Thanks!!

Please pass this message on to a grade school teacher if you can.

Chaim R. Dworkin
chaim@linc.cis.upenn.edu
From: dic5340@hertz.njit.edu (David Charlap)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
Subject: Re: sexism
Date: 7 Nov 92 00:00:15 GMT
Organization: New Jersey Institute of Technology, Newark, N.J.

In article <GJSSBPF6@cc.swarthmore.edu> mwertz1@cc.swarthmore.edu (Melanie Wertz) writes:
>No one has answered my questions yet.  Why is it that MEN are not barred
>from appearing provocative to women?  WOMEN EXPERIENCE ATTRACTION TOO!

Actually, men are also required to dress modestly.  Only for them, the
reason is for the image of the community.  A man is (or was once)
allowed to have multiple wives, so it wasn't thought to be as bad if a
married man attracted an unmarried woman.

Today, however, I think one could justifiably add this to the reason
for male modesty.



-- 
David Charlap         |"there aren't 50,000 things for which it's worth writing
dic5340@hertz.njit.edu| software; and the computer industry doesn't have enough
----------------------+ programmers to create that much good software.
Therefore, most of it must be worthless" -- Boris Beizer "The Frozen Keyboard"
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
From: aap@wam.umd.edu (Alberto Adolfo Pinkas)
Subject: reporting people to sysadms
Organization: Workstations at Maryland, University of Maryland, College Park
Date: Fri, 6 Nov 1992 21:39:28 GMT

Personaly, I oppose the idea of people reporting other people to sysadms.
I believe that if someone harrasses you in private, he/she will stop if
you do not answer his/her mail.
About USENET, it is just a matter of seeing who can last longer. 
There are several "groups" in s.c.j. Religious ans secular people, some are
orthodox and other conservative, and others reformist, and others are
just people. 
I would say that what Mr Saal did is wrong, because what is important here is 
to exchange ideas and not who's idea it was.
After all, I just have a computer in front of me, and I do not know if
Mr Saal, Mr. Eliot, Mr. Markowsky, or anyone else, really exist or if
someone has several accounts with different names and posts all the time.
I find reporting people a disgusting act, so, I would sugget to all of you
not to do it.

Alberto Pinkas
From: goldberg@techunix.technion.ac.il (Jacques Goldberg)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
Subject: Re: Noach question...
Date: 6 Nov 92 07:43:52 GMT
Organization: Technion, Israel Institute of Technology

engelson-sean@cs.yale.edu (Sean Philip Engelson) writes:

>So it seems that the fish were note included.  A better question than the
>"storm" aspect of fish survival is the difference between salt-water and
>fresh-water fish---since the whole world was covered in water, it was either
>all salt or all fresh.  This could cause serious problems for some of the fish.
>Any ideas??
      You implicitly assume immediate perfect mixing of all water. Now compare 
the duration of the Deluge with the time that the Atlantic Ocean and the
Mediterranean Sea waters are contiguous for example, and their average level
of salinity... It does seem that reaching the equilibrium situation which you
assume takes longer than you may have thought.
      You further assume that the storm was uniformly distributed over the
world, but ancient texts (Midrash Rabah for example) explicitly claim it was
not. Read for example its explanations on the origin of the olive tree branch
carried by the dove.
>	-Shlomo-
         Yaaqov
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish,misc.headlines,talk.politics.misc,soc.culture.african-american,misc.legal