HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: greg@saltydog.dpsi.com (Gregory R. Travis)
Subject: Re: I give up...
Organization: Data Parallel Systems, Inc
Date: Thu, 20 Aug 1992 14:59:12 GMT

In <23479@alice.att.com> ark@alice.att.com (Andrew Koenig) writes:

>In article <greg.714148959@saltydog> greg@saltydog.dpsi.com (Gregory R. Travis) writes:

>> Question:  Why do they insist that you specify the "route" portion of
>> your IFR flightplan in the NE?  It's not like you're EVER going to use it!

>Because you aren't always cleared all the way to your destination
>before departure.  If you have a radio failure, they will expect you
>to follow your clearance until it ends, then follow the route in your
>flight plan.

Two REAL-LIFE (tm) examples to illustrate the COMPLETE futility of filling
in the route portion in the NE:

As Filed Route #1 (to be picked up over CMK in VFR conditions):

CMK (Carmel VORTAC, over Danbury, CT) ORW COSSY MVY
(specifically to limit the over-water portion)

What I got:

CMK HFD TMU MVY
(fish-food)

As Filed Route #2 (picked up before departing MVY in IFR conditions)

MVY TMU CMK SAX ETX HAR JST LBE
(exactly 3:50 cruise, leaving me with 1:40 fuel at my destination (LBE) -
 plenty to get to my alternate (AGC) which was forecast VFR)

What I got:

MVY PVD PUT BAF V292 V408 LHY JST LBE
(which was a 5:20 minute flight.  I had to shoot an approach into
Wilkes-Barre (near LHY) three hours into the flight for fuel)

You'll note that in each of these cases the only common portions are the
origination and destination points; leaving me with some question about
my lost comm procedures (once at LHY it was clear that I could NOT complete
the flight to LBE or my alternate.  However, the ENTIRE east coast that
day was IFR.  Had I had a comm failure, I would have been faced with shooting
an approach to an airport that did not expect me at all.  In reality, I
probably would have COMPLETELY deviated from my filed or given
route and proceeded NW hoping to break out before the fuel gave out)

greg
--
Gregory Reed Travis				D  P  S  I
Data Parallel Systems Incorporated   greg@dpsi.com (For MX mailers only!)
Bloomington, IN			     greg@indiana.edu (For the others)
From: lafford@serum.kodak.com (Rick Lafford)
Newsgroups: rec.aviation
Subject: Re:Glider pilots : how many are you ??
Date: 19 Aug 92 20:50:37 GMT
Reply-To: lafford@serum.kodak.com (Rick Lafford)
Organization: Clinical Products Division, Eastman Kodak Company

I think the list is a great idea but unfortunately, I have a real job
in addition to being the local netministrator. My contribution to the
list would be:

Rick Lafford/lafford@serum.kodak.com/I+T/Dansville, NY/Discus

	Regards,

Rick Lafford  Eastman Kodak Co.  | If you vote for the same old
Clinical Products Div.                  | lot, you'll get what you've
lafford@serum.kodak.com            | always got.  - me
From: kzk00@ccc.amdahl.com (  200  Klaus Kraemer)
Newsgroups: rec.aviation
Subject: Re: His Airworthiness (E. Allen Engelhardt)
Date: 14 Aug 92 22:46:54 GMT
Reply-To: kzk00@JUTS.ccc.amdahl.com (  200  Klaus Kraemer)
Organization: Amdahl Corporation, Sunnyvale CA

>>Some months ago I attended a rather entertaining and informative
>>FAA safety seminar.
>>The speaker I remember only by his selfassigned title
>>of "His Airworthyness".
>>He is a Big Iron pilot who gave a humorous and practical talk on
>>weather.
>
>Yep, that would be E. Allen Engelhardt.  I've attended a few of his
>seminars.  He's certainly well informed, well prepared, and a pretty
>good speaker, to boot.  BUT, has anyone else found his somewhat
>egotistical manner to be rather annoying?  Perhaps I was being a
>little too sensitive, but I was _distracted_ by his style.
>
>
>-- 
>Mark Joseph             University of Illinois / Speech & Hearing Science
>Technical Support Mgr.  901 S. Sixth St., Champaign, IL 61820
>m-joseph@uiuc.edu       (217)244-2569   FAX:(217)244-2235
>
...and I was afraid *I* was the only one who didn't like the attitudes
of this guy. Did I read something on the net referring to him as
"His Airship"? While it was certainly more interesting to listen
to him rather than an FAA bureaucrat, I'll gladly trade an hour of his
arrogant talk for five minutes of Rod Machado.

Klaus Kraemer, PP-ASEL IA, Mooney N201MX
"My employer *does* pay me to have opinions. Guess whose..."
From: barney@sol.usc.edu (Barney Lum)
Newsgroups: rec.aviation
Subject: Re: TRSA's
Date: 20 Aug 1992 17:02:36 -0700
Organization: USC University Computing Services, Los Angeles
NNTP-Posting-Host: sol.usc.edu
Summary: Why are They?

What I'm not really sure of is why Terminal Radar Service Areas exist in 
the first place.  Is it something political?  Something to denote the 
amount/type of traffic at a particular airport?  Conversely, why
aren't all facilities with radar denoted as TRSA's?

It seems to me that "TRSA" was just something to officially state that radar 
services *are* available.  Since participation is voluntary,  I don't know 
why the dimensions (vertical and lateral) vary or are even depicted on 
charts.  I'd think that one "block" of airspace up to a certain altitude 
would be sufficient in that respect.  If not participating, then 
aircraft could legally just fly by Airport Traffic Area rules.  If
landing, bypassing the Approach controller and sequencing/seperation
probably isn't all that nice.

What does it mean when a TRSA doesn't exist?  There are numerous airports 
with what could be considered "Stage III" services, but which don't have 
a TRSA/ARSA/WhateverRadarServiceArea.  Examples are Bakersfield, CA, 
NAS Lemoore, NAS Pt. Mugu and Vandenberg AFB, all of whom regularly provide  
flight following/advisories.  To my surprise, VBG has even worked me into 
the "system",  handing me off to Santa Barbara, in turn to Pt. Mugu and 
Burbank before landing back at El Monte.  They provided all the fun of a 
TRSA, but they just don't have the traffic/title?  I suppose "Class C 
Airspace will give them an identity :).

--------------------------------------------------------------------------
              >|            
              >|      barney@usc.edu  Barney@USCVM
 -->  -->  --> |   =======    ---    ---    ---    ---    ---   ---    ---  
              >|      Permanent Student Pilot, On the Numbers   
              >|
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: val@swamps.UUCP (Val Christian)
Newsgroups: rec.aviation
Subject: Re: That would never happen to me...BUT
Summary: Dip Gauges do work in Cessnas
Date: 17 Aug 92 03:57:24 GMT
Article-I.D.: swamps.646
Reply-To: val@swamps.UUCP (Val Christian)
Organization: Swamp Systems

In article <1992Aug10.191409.4269@peck.com> geoff@peck.com (Geoff Peck) writes:
>In article <1992Aug4.124714.57840@cc.usu.edu> clayton@cc.usu.edu writes:
>> Buy a "dip gauge" this is a clear tube with graduated markings, then make a
>
>DANGER!  These "dip gauges" are subject to all sorts of errors, particularly
>in Cessnas, including:
>
>    -  they won't read correctly unless the aircraft is precisely level
>    -  aging of fuel bladders can dramatically reduce available fuel capacity
>    -  calibrations for a "generic" Cessna XXX may not apply to your Cessna
>       XXX (long range tanks, slightly different capacites in different
>       model years, etc.)

I've been using a Dip Gauge, pre-marked for a C172, in our C172M, for many
years.  With the airplane relatively level, I consistently get readings within
1 gallon per tank.

I urge students to monitor fuel in several ways:
	
	-dip
	-power setting & mixture (fuel burn rate)
	-look at, but don't believe, the electric gauges
	-double check fuel burn with fuel slips (bills)

Often I'll dip a tank _before_ filling on a XC, just to verify my estimated
fuel burn.  

It is probably appropriate to remind people that fuel burn increases with 
weight for the same aircraft performance.  As an example, expect a plane loaded
at 3000 lbs to burn _at_least_ 20% more fuel for a leg, than it would at
2500 lbs.

In summary, the dip gauge approach is just one component of fuel awareness,
and in my experience, a reliable one.

Val Christian
(h) ...uunet!sisd!kodak!swamps!val
(w) val@kodak.com
From: tpickett@auspex.com (Tom Pickett)
Newsgroups: rec.aviation
Subject: Re: Small crash / Chrokee Question
Keywords: Cherokee Models
Date: 19 Aug 92 21:06:08 GMT
Reply-To: tpickett@auspex.com (Tom Pickett)
Organization: Auspex Systems, Inc.  Engineering

In article <1992Aug19.200234.4084@erenj.com>, bdboyle@erenj.com (Bryan D. 
Boyle) writes:
> In actuality, the Cherokee 160 was one of the first models of the breed
> introduced in the '61 timeframe, according to the Cherokee Pilots Assoc.
> It had a 160hp O-320, 2-window side profile, and was rated for 2250 lb
> TOW.  The Cherokee 140 was a variant of that model (in actuality, they
> used a different prop which limited the rpm of the engine to 140 at
> full throttle...), and the 180 was an O-360-A3A engined model introduced
> in 1962.  The 160 was made (if my memory serves correctly-no
> guarantees...flames to /dev/null) from '61 to '65(?)...they are all
> PA28-1xx, the Cherokee 6 was a PA32 and the first version was a 260 hp
> variant (stretched, slight increase in wingspan...) of the 180...
>  

Exactly what I was gonna say, but I seem to remember the Cherokee
160 & 180 lasting into the late 60's and early 70's.  I may still have
a marketing brochure at home on it...


Tom Pickett 
tpickett@auspex.com
SHO  GOZE
Newsgroups: rec.aviation,aus.aviation
From: ron@pilot.njin.net (Ron Natalie)
Newsgroups: rec.aviation
Subject: Re: TRSA's
Date: 20 Aug 92 15:25:52 GMT
Organization: Rutgers Univ., New Brunswick, N.J.

>      Back when we had one here, we pronounced it "tersa".
> Now, though, we pronounce it "Vancouver Class C airspace".  :-)

That's a good point.  The US Report and Order on the new airspace
doesn't even mention TRSA's (Class C is newspeak for ARSA).  Either
they're just going to be ignored (they aren't airspace like ATA's
used to be?) or the TRSA's days are numbered and will be abolished
(turned into ARSA/Class C).

-Ron
Newsgroups: rec.aviation
From: jhenderson@pomona.claremont.edu
Subject: Where to rent in Miami, FL
Organization: Pomona College
Date: 22 Aug 92 22:06:44 PDT

Hello,

I'll be spending a week's vacation in Miami, FL, in late september, and I'd
like to do some flying while up there.

Can anyone recommend any FBO's in that area?

Thank you.
______________________________________________________________________________
Javier Henderson, N6VBG         | Beat the 55mph limit (legally):
jhenderson@pomona.claremont.edu | Learn to fly!
From: spenny@sw.stratus.com (Steve Pennypacker)
Newsgroups: rec.aviation
Subject: Re: Gear down
Date: 21 Aug 92 21:36:45 GMT
Organization: Stratus Computer, Inc.

In article <Aug21.192843.25143@yuma.ACNS.ColoState.EDU>, wendt@CS.ColoState.EDU (alan l wendt) writes:

(beginning of story deleted)

> [the nose gear] hit at about 45mph and
> promptly collapsed.  We dug a 30-foot groove right down the center of
> the runway.

If you were flying a taildragger,




Oh, nevermind.

;-)   (again, for the humorously challenged)

-- 
     Steve Pennypacker		     PP-ASEL

     spenny@wiley.ts.stratus.com     Stephen_Pennypacker@vos.stratus.com
From: ron@pilot.njin.net (Ron Natalie)
Newsgroups: rec.aviation
Subject: Re: 5 in a 4 seater (was: Small crash / Chrokee Question)
Date: 20 Aug 92 15:28:48 GMT
Organization: Rutgers Univ., New Brunswick, N.J.

The US Far's require each passenger to be in a seat equipped with a
seat belt.  The ambiguity is if whether two children in one seat
sharing the seatbelt meats the letter of the regulation.  At least
one FSDO says yes.

-Ron
From: bills@hplvec.LVLD.HP.COM (Bill Standerfer)
Newsgroups: rec.aviation
Subject: Re: High Altitude Leaning Question
Date: 12 Aug 92 15:32:13 GMT
Organization: Hewlett-Packard Co., Loveland, CO

In article <l80cv4INNg5o@sol.usc.edu>, barney@sol.usc.edu (Barney Lum) writes:
>In addition to leaning the mixture for high (dens) altitude, are there 
>any techniques/procedures for adjusting variable pitch props?  Does one 
>simply set it full forward (keeping it under red line), or should it be 
>pulled back until say, a slight drop in RPM?

If you set the mixture full forward on a nonturbocharged engine at high
density altitudes, you'll often flood it into oblivion!  Assuming a constant
speed propeller (not just variable pitch as on some older types like the
Navion) you can lean for a slight increase in manifold pressure or, in some
cases, RPM.  You should not lean far enough to get a *decrease* in RPM unless
you use that point to decide where to stop, then richen from there somewhat.

As I said in my previous posting on this subject, all bets are off when
talking about turbocharged engines.

Bill Standerfer
Newsgroups: rec.aviation,sci.aeronautics
From: dfr@usna.navy.mil (PROF D. Rogers (EAS FAC))
Newsgroups: rec.aviation
Subject: Re: I give up...
Date: 20 Aug 92 03:16:25 GMT
Organization: U. S. Naval Academy

In article <23479@alice.att.com> ark@alice.UUCP () writes:
!In article <greg.714148959@saltydog! greg@saltydog.dpsi.com (Gregory R. Travis) writes:
!
!! Question:  Why do they insist that you specify the "route" portion of
!! your IFR flightplan in the NE?  It's not like you're EVER going to use it!

Interestingly enough I've been getting a lot of as filed in the NE lately.
Maybe, it's because I now know what they'll give me so that's what I
file for.

Dave Rogers
From: IO20081@MAINE.MAINE.EDU (robert eric beckwith)
Newsgroups: rec.aviation
Subject: Re: Dip Gauges
Date: 12 Aug 92 21:24:17 GMT
Organization: University of Maine System

I use a dip gauge on the Lake all the time, it is the only way to
visually check fuel (factory part).  There are a few problems with it:
The fuel will wick up the stick very fast and give the wrong reading.
Since the tank might not have a flat bottom or aircraft is not level
and you might might get incorrect readings.
.........robert
If you leave the stick out on a Lake it gets munched by the prop..
From: rcm@Apple.COM (Robert Charles Monsen)
Newsgroups: rec.aviation
Subject: Precision Circling Approaches
Keywords: IFR
Date: 14 Aug 92 00:39:36 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: Apple Computer Inc., Cupertino, CA

I have a question about circling procedures on an ILS. The question is,
where is the MAP? If its an ILS, the MAP is defined as the intersection
of the DH and the glideslope. However, for circling approaches, that would
put one far out the glideslope, perhaps miles, when beginning the missed
approach procedure. (for an 800' circling altitude, thats almost 3 miles
on a 3 degree glideslope).

I suspect that circling approaches are only defined for non-precision
procedures, and that the MAP is always defined the same way the corresponding
MAP for the non-precision approach is defined, either time, cross fix, or DME.
If there are circling minimums for an ILS, they apply to the corresponding
localizer approach.

Well? I can't find a reference in the AIM to confirm or deny this. 

Bob Monsen
Orion Network Systems
Berkeley, Ca. 

GLOSSARY

ILS = instrument landing system
MAP = missed approach point
DH = decision height
DME = distance measuring equipment
MDA = minimum descent altitude
From: laubach@hpl.hp.com (Mark Laubach)
Newsgroups: rec.aviation
Subject: Re: New ARSA question
Date: 12 Aug 92 20:35:23 GMT
Organization: Hewlett-Packard Laboratories Palo Alto,CA
X-Newsreader: Tin 1.1scd1 PL4

IMHO, quite normal. SJC just feels you are far enough away that you
are not a traffic problem for them anymore.  They still have you on
their scopes, i.e., they know who you are and where you are going.

Also, what they are may be asking you to do there is contact Moffet
asap to get clearance from them - if you are in their airspace.  What
they should normally do is to tell you to contact Moffet on the
appropriate frequency rather than just drop you, depending on where
you are of course.

--
Mark
PP-ASEL-GAT
From: ron@pilot.njin.net (Ron Natalie)
Newsgroups: rec.aviation
Subject: Re: Speaking of DUAT
Date: 15 Aug 92 14:16:53 GMT
Organization: Rutgers Univ., New Brunswick, N.J.

DUAT is just not good enough.  The teletype notams are good for
runway/navaid out, but many of the Class II modems just don't come
across that way.  For example, the teletype OSH Notams were just a
couple of "caution air show trafic" lines, certainly a far cry from
the over 20 pages that comprised the Class II Notam on the airshow,
which had the VFR arrival procedures, the IFR procedures, the NORDO
procedure, the Warbird procedures, ..., complete with pictures.

Sometimes there is more infomration to be had from
1-800-VFR-NOT-RECOMMENDED than from the computer services.

-Ron
From: kirsten@Apple.COM (Kirsten Nelson)
Newsgroups: rec.aviation
Subject: Instrument Ground School at Apple
Keywords: ground school, instrument, commercial
Date: 20 Aug 92 04:23:43 GMT
Distribution: ba
Organization: Apple Computer Inc., Cupertino, CA

Apple Aviators will offer an instrument ground school this fall.  
(By the way, if you want the private pilot course, we'll probably 
offer that this winter.) Here's the scoop on the instrument ground 
school.  We will run the course if we have 15 paid students by Sept 3.  
 
Instrument ground school runs September 17 - December 17.  We 
will meet Thursday evenings, on the Cupertino campus from 6-9:30 pm.  
Course materials will cost $195 plus a fee (appox. $25) if you 
decide to take the FAA  written exam.  This course fee covers the 
complete Jeppeson instrument and commercial student kit, including:  
textbooks, workbooks, practice tests, sample charts, as 
well as a detailed course notebook with all slides.  Part of 
the course fee also goes toward the video materials used in 
class, plus additional copying of materials, and, of course, 
includes sales tax. The course is ground school only, although 
we will try to arrange at least one flying event during the term.  
If possible, we'll also schedule a tour of either 
Bay Approach or Oakland Center.  The course will cover 
all required material for both the instrument and 
commercial written exams.
 
Course material isn't inherently difficult, but does 
require some memorization, and some dusting off of the 
meteorology and physics you learned in high school. And of course, 
there are those wonderful FAA questions.  You can take ground
school before starting your instrument flight training--you'll 
have two years from the date you pass the written test to complete 
flight training.  You needn't be an Apple employee to take the 
class, but we do ask that you have an Apple contact, or an internet 
email address.  (Once or twice we've have to move a class on 
short notice.)
 
The instructor will be Lee A. Barford, CFII and AGI/IGI, 
and Accident Prevention Counselor.  (Geoff Peck fans note:  
Geoff has other commitments for the fall, but may be back to 
teach private course in the winter.)  To enroll in the course, 
write a check for $195, payable to Lee Barford.  Grab a 
scrap of paper, and write the student's name, email address, 
and daytime phone number on it. Put check and paper 
scrap in an envelope.  Mail it to Lee Barford, 
4270 Terman Dr. #204, Palo Alto, CA  94306.  Please be sure 
to include your email address on or with your check!  
We've never had this happen, but if we don't get enough 
students enrolled to offer the course, we'll send your 
check back to you.
 
The first class will meet Thursday Sept. 17.  You'll receive 
a confirmation notice with location and directions by email 
when we receive your check.  If you have questions 
(or would like to audit), call (415) 852-9625 evenings 
before 11:00 p.m. If you are interested in being a TA, please 
email barford@hpllabs.hpl.hp.com.
From: cap@selway.umt.edu (Charles A. Smith)
Newsgroups: rec.aviation
Subject: Re: fly-in community
Date: 12 Aug 92 16:36:48 GMT
Organization: University of Montana

>  Even if
> it took an extra 15 to 20 minutes, I think I know what I would rather do!
 
The thing is, though, that one can commute in a car in a sort of daze.  Car
commuting becomes a mindless act, during which one can wake up a bit
before arriving at work.  The same would not be true, I hope, of commuting
in a small plane.

I found a better solution to commuting in the Bay Area.  I moved to Montana.

Cap "there's no crime here, either" Smith



-- 
Cap Smith                 Assistant Prof. of MIS           
cap@selway.umt.edu        University of Montana
From: pvf@alantec.com (Paul Fries)
Newsgroups: rec.aviation
Subject: Re: MD88 ice detectors
Date: 12 Aug 92 16:43:30 GMT

hutton@ncrcol.ColumbiaSC.NCR.COM (ed Hutton ext. 6488) writes:


>       A friend of mine was recently flying as a passenger on an MD88.
>He noticed a small (6 inch) lanyard in a yellow triangle placed closed to
>the fuselage. He asked the aircrew what was the purpose of this device.
>The response was that they were for ice detection. Does anyone know how
>these devices work?

I asked the cockpit crew about this also.  I also continued to ask
how it worked.  The answer was so simple, it made me laugh.

Somebody LOOKS at the yarn... if it ain't moving (yes, while in flight)
then there is ice on them thar wings.
Newsgroups: rec.aviation
From: t-dougf@microsoft.com (Douglas Fields)
Subject: Re: Cellular phones again!  Argh!!
Date: 21 Aug 92 20:38:57 GMT
Organization: Microsoft Corporation
Distribution: usa

In article <Bt7242.J3q@taligent.com> cep@taligent.com (Christophe Pettus) writes:
>In article <16pdiiINNoje@darkstar.UCSC.EDU> rob@cats.ucsc.edu (99708000) writes:
>>
>>I thought they were "not OK" (in flight, anyway).
>>
>Well, from the FAA's point of view, it is OK, as long as it doesn't
>interfere with the other radios.  It's the FCC that doesn't like it,

Let's see... From the FAA point of view, operating any radios, etc., is
subject to the permission of the PIC, and that it does not interfere with
other radios, instruments, etc.

The real problem lies in the design of the cellular system. As everyone
knows, the UHF frequencies (800-900 MHz) that the cellphones use is basically
a line of sight wave. As one ascends, the "radio horizon" gets further
away, and the coverage area increases. The problem then is that your
cellphone signal is going to be heard in multiple cells, and the phone
company is going to disable your ESN when it gets signals from your phone
in five or six cells.

I also believe there is a rule on the books limiting the altitude which
you can use them. Whether it is an FCC, cellphone company, or other rule,
I don't know.

Cheers,

Doug
Newsgroups: rec.aviation
From: rcm@Apple.COM (Robert Charles Monsen)
Newsgroups: rec.aviation
Subject: Re: DME Answers
Date: 18 Aug 92 18:12:47 GMT
Organization: Apple Computer Inc., Cupertino, CA

In article <168477B7B.BCLEWIS@LSTC2VM.stortek.com> BCLEWIS@LSTC2VM.stortek.com (Brian Lewis) writes:
> 
>I've never heard the T-E-S-T identifier broadcast, but I have tuned VORs
>which had *NO* identifier when they were out of service or in maintenance.
>I don't know if the DME part of a VORTAC or VORDME can be operational
>when the VOR is not, but (not having perfect pitch), I make sure I hear the
>identifier twice within 30 seconds before relying on the VOR.
> 
>Brian

It is possible for a VORTAC to have the DME signal INOP when the VOR signal
is operational. This happened with the OAK VORTAC in california recently.
It was NOTAMd that they were working on the DME, and when I went to fly,
sure enough, the DME signal wasn't coming over when I tried to identify
it. 

The implication here is that you should ALWAYS identify the DME if you
are planning it use it on an approach, even if you already identified the
corresponding VOR.

Bob Monsen
Orion Network Systems
Berkeley, Ca.
From: lee@bluefuzz.sw.stratus.com (Lee Cooprider)
Newsgroups: rec.aviation
Subject: Where oh where is mpuckett?
Date: 12 Aug 92 19:48:28 GMT
Organization: Stratus Computer, Software Engineering

It's been so long since there has been an mpuckett from-line that my local
archive has purged them all and I can't find an address to email to.  Has the
ecoaviation business dried up, or are you just keeping it to yourself? :-)
-- 
Lee W. Cooprider				PP-ASEL/IA
Lee_Cooprider@vos.stratus.com			Skylane N2908F "Wiley"
Newsgroups: rec.aviation