HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: bx916@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Ross W. Starkey)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.movies
Subject: BR: Raw oysters, boiled dogs, tequila worms, calfskin wallets.
Date: 5 Oct 1992 04:15:07 GMT
Organization: Case Western Reserve University, Cleveland, OH (USA)
Reply-To: bx916@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Ross W. Starkey)
NNTP-Posting-Host: hela.ins.cwru.edu


To get away from the shouting match for a while:

In Blade Runner (all cuts), why would Rachel turn in a guy for giving
her a calfskin wallet?  What's the big deal about calfskin?  Not like
the world's gone veggie or anything... 


-- 
Whom first, whom later         No one is fool enough to choose war instead of
did you kill in battle,        peace - in peace sons bury fathers, but in war
Patroklos, when the gods       fathers bury sons.  It must have been heaven's
were calling deathward? HOMER  will that this should happen...      HERODOTUS
Xref: sparky rec.arts.sf.movies:7694 rec.arts.movies:29429 alt.cult-movies:8675
From: bx916@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Ross W. Starkey)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.movies,rec.arts.movies,alt.cult-movies
Subject: BR: Raw oysters, boiled dogs, tequila worms, calfskin wallets.
Date: 5 Oct 1992 04:29:40 GMT
Organization: Case Western Reserve University, Cleveland, OH (USA)
Reply-To: bx916@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Ross W. Starkey)
NNTP-Posting-Host: hela.ins.cwru.edu


To get away from the shouting match for a while:

In Blade Runner (all cuts), why would Rachel turn in a guy for giving
her a calfskin wallet?  What's the big deal about calfskin?  Not like
the world's gone veggie or anything... 


-- 
Whom first, whom later         No one is fool enough to choose war instead of
did you kill in battle,        peace - in peace sons bury fathers, but in war
Patroklos, when the gods       fathers bury sons.  It must have been heaven's
were calling deathward? HOMER  will that this should happen...      HERODOTUS
From: mst@vexpert.dbai.tuwien.ac.at (Markus Stumptner)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.movies
Subject: Re: Deckard is NOT a Replicant
Date: 30 Sep 92 18:29:21 GMT
Organization: DB and ES Subdivision, TU Vienna

From article <1992Sep30.043900.3312@socrates.umd.edu>, by caruso@socrates.umd.edu (John Caruso):
> In article <5964@vexpert.dbai.tuwien.ac.at> mst@vexpert.dbai.tuwien.ac.at (Markus Stumptner) writes:
>>The point is not that Deckard is weaker, but that he is TOO WEAK to do
>>his job properly, considering the opposition he is up against.
>>Therefore his being a replicant is not PLAUSIBLE because it would not
>>be a REASONABLE assignment.  
 
> Crucial to your argument is the assumption that when Deckard was created,
> the full capabilities of Roy-style Nexus 6 replicants were known and would
> have disqualified Deckard from consideration as a blade runner. 

Which is the natural thing to assume, since if memory implants are not
recent, the whole Rachel subplot makes no sense.  It only makes sense
if either Rachel (or Deckard, if he is a replicant) is to be tested,
otherwise they would just be jeopardizing a perfectly ordinary mission
by bringing them together.  But if they are new, and Deckard is being
field-tested, then he must certainly be younger than the 3-year old
Nexus-6's.

> Or put
> another way, that if Deckard is a replicant he MUST be as powerful as a
> Nexus 6, and since he isn't that powerful, he's not fit for the job, so
> he can't be a replicant in the first place.  These are big assumptions.

Aren't you guys reading what I write?  I NEVER said Deckard has to be
as powerful as a Nexus-6, I just said he has to be better than he is
portrayed.  This is not hard if he even is a mere contemporary of the
Nexus-6s.  Since he is armed, as was pointed out, it would be
sufficient to give him senses and reflexes adequate to deal with them.
Mere fast reflexes don't give anyone away, and muscle power, up to a
degree, doesn't either.  Besides, why not give him memories of years
of physical training.

> But Deckard could have been brewed
> before Roy and company

But then Rachel could not be an experimental model, and Tyrell would
not show any special interest in either her or Deckard.  

> Again I say, the problem with substantiating any claim about Deckard's
> nature is Ridley Scott's desire to make it UNCLEAR.

Sorry, but it has been explicitly stated before (not by me, so I can't
prove it) that Scott wanted to make it clear at the end and the
unicorn obviously was his tool for the job.  And I don't like that.
It shows that Scott is willing to throw away the discussable qualities
of his film and the consistency of it's plot just so he can have a
nice spectacular plot twist at the end.  Still, why then did he allow
them to take the scene out?




-- 
Markus Stumptner                                mst@vexpert.dbai.tuwien.ac.at
University of Technology Vienna                 vexpert!mst@relay.eu.net
Paniglg. 16, A-1040 Vienna, Austria             ...mcsun!vexpert!mst
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.movies
From: sjurk@dhhalden.no (SJUR KRISTIANSEN)
Subject: Re: Alien Jaws
Organization: Ostfold College
Date: Thu, 1 Oct 1992 14:01:53 GMT

In article <1992Sep29.090806.1@woods.ulowell.edu> stancad@woods.ulowell.edu writes:
>From: stancad@woods.ulowell.edu
>Subject: Re: Alien Jaws
>Date: Tue, 29 Sep 1992 14:08:06 GMT
>In article <1992Sep21.032102.1032@cssc-syd.tansu.com.au>, pete@cssc-syd.tansu.com.au (Peter Alexander Merel) writes:
>> jjfink@skcla.monsanto.com writes:
>>>I finally found the terrestrial inspiration for the thrusting
>>>Alien inner jaw:  Sharks!
>> 
>> I disagree. There's none of the sawing action you get with sharks. I think
>> that the inspiration for Giger's Alien mouth is easily identified from 
>> contemporaneous sketches of his; it's a penis. 
>> 
>> -- 
>> Internet: pete@cssc-syd.tansu.com.au   UUCP: {uunet,mcvax}!munnari!cssc-syd!pete
>> Snail: 1/18-20 Orion Road, Lane Cove NSW 2066 Australia    Phone: +61 2 911 3130
>> The game is afoot!
>
>You guys are sick!

No, actually it is Giger who is sick... :)
Check out his artwork!
                          ___
SJURK@SOFUS.DHHALDEN.NO  /// I've seen things you  people wouldn't believe. 
Sjur Kristiansen        /// Attack ships on fire off the shoulder of Orion. 
Ostfold College   ___  /// I watched  C-beams glitter in the dark near the 
N-1750 Halden      \\\/// Tannhauser gate.  All those moments will be lost
NORWAY              \/// in time - like tears in rain...       Time to die.
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.movies
From: gdg019@cch.coventry.ac.uk (Ridley McIntyre)
Subject: Re: BLADERUNNER: City (was : Race and class)
Organization: Ironpig Arcadia, Coventry, UK
Date: Wed, 30 Sep 1992 10:22:36 GMT

In article <5957@vexpert.dbai.tuwien.ac.at> mst@vexpert.dbai.tuwien.ac.at (Markus Stumptner) writes:
>From article <2006@coyote.UUCP>, by jeffs@almaden.ibm.com (Jeff Schneiter):
>> From what I remember from the book, the people that are left on Earth live
>> in areas that are low in radiation (from what cause, I do not remember).
>
>> This is another reason I find the happy "driving in the countryside"
>> ending so full of s#!t. Outside of the cities it was essentially a  barren
>> waste, definitely no hiways like they showed either.
>
>I agree that the ending felt (and was) tacked on, but using the book
>as a basis for argument on what amounts to a detail issue is not
>really warranted, since except for the basic ideas at the outset, book
>and film are so different.  Since the core of the plot (i.e., the
>nature of the replicants) has been completely changed in the film, the
>fact that of such virgin landscapes are still presumed to exist in
>natural parks or not is not really that important in comparison.

It was just pilfered footage from The Shining. Everyone knows that 8*).

-- 
        	 **Ridley McIntyre - Ronin Ironpig**			
		     gdg019@cck.coventry.ac.uk
		 -----------------------------------
     	     "He's in a wibbly-wobbly world of his own."
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.movies
From: gre253@mis.csiro.au (Steven Green)
Subject: Re: MAD MAX...best of the series
Organization: CSIRO ITS
Date: Mon, 28 Sep 92 06:55:12 GMT

In article <6385@blue.cis.pitt.edu.UUCP> seawasp@vm2.cis.pitt.edu (Sea Wasp) writes:
>In article <1992Sep28.041143.21389@athena.mit.edu> eprice@sql.sybas.com writes:
>>Someone:
>
>>>>> Talking about Mad Max, which of the 3 do you think are the best
>
>>warda@vax.oxford.ac.uk:
>>>>Well, for what it's worth, I preferred MMI by far.  II was certainly more
>>>>spectacular, and III was, to me, a good example of what can go wrong when you
>>>>get a substantial budget increase, and your backers have high expectations of
>
>>gre253@mis.csiro.au (Steven Green):
>>>I agree 100% ! The original is a classic movie! II sucked, and III ( well
>
>>I am very happy to see that there are others who share my opinion on
>>these movies; I agree 100% as well.  But I notice that both of you are
>>outside the USA!  I know of very few (any?) Americans, besides myself,
>>who prefer MAD MAX to ROAD WARRIOR (MAD MAX 2).
>
>	Oh, well, with three artistic boosters up there I might as well
>fulfill my apparent role as net.philistine and say
>
>	I found Mad Max to be a good film, but a bit choppy. The Road 
>Warrior was an improvement. Thunderdome was a pleasant surprise, a
>big-budget upgrade that seemed, to me, to preserve the spirit of
>the first two while giving it the extra boost of the money and 
>production values.
>
>	So I rate them precisely opposite. So sue me. 
>
>
>                                 Sea Wasp
>                                   /^\
>                                   ;;;

Hey - Your'e American - What can I say!
-- 
* Steve Green     *  "Hey Rocky, watch me pull a rabbit outa my hat!"    *
* Comms Group     *  "That trick never works"                            *
* ITS Branch      *  "Nothin' up my sleeve - PRESTO"                     *
* CSIRO Australia *  "No doubt about it - I gotta get another hat"       *
Xref: sparky rec.arts.sf.movies:7736 rec.arts.movies:29545 alt.cult-movies:8745
From: K.R.Catchpole3@lut.ac.uk
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.movies,rec.arts.movies,alt.cult-movies
Subject: Re: Deckard as 6th Replicant doesn't hold water
Date: 6 Oct 92 10:30:19 GMT
Reply-To: K.R.Catchpole3@lut.ac.uk (Uncle Bill Burroughs)
Organization: Loughborough University, UK.


	Call me a stupid moron, but I thought one of the main themes in BR
was the fact that Deckard IS NOT a replicant but the job was so inhumane that
to cope he had to disconnect himself from his emotions, thereby BECOMING what
he hunted as those he hunted became more human. By being separated from his
wife and choosing a replicant over a 'human' for a relationship (i.e Rachel)
confirms the idea. This is why Gaff lets Deckard escape and the unicorn is his
way of telling Deckard that he understands. Gaff, after being portrayed as a
cold hartless character for most of the film, finally being given some human
(or humane) aspects.

	In summary, I thought that the whole point of the film was that
Deckard is not a replicant and neither are any of the rest of the 'human'
characters but all are so similar to the replicants that to make a distinction
between them and kill the replicants is NOT HUMAN.

P.S. I haven't been following the discussion so don't flame me if I've missed
	something.

Uncle Bill Burroughs Patent Adding Machine User 

	"a Word to the Wise Guy"
Organization: Penn State University
Date: Fri, 2 Oct 1992 11:25:31 EDT
From: <CMH114@psuvm.psu.edu>
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.movies
Subject: Bladerunner in State College

Wadda ya knaw, the directors cut just showed up here. Is it going into general
release, or is it because this is a College town?

     Seeing as a rival, much more
powerful on-campus film group took over my organizations showings of Princess
Bride this weekend, I'm gonna have time to see this deathless work of art in
glorious 35mm. Yaaay.

Mitch Hagmaier         One Moment in Annilihation's Waste,
Quest Laboratories     One Monent, of the Well of Life to taste-
Terraforming Division   The Stars are setting and the Caravan
State College, Pa      Starts for the Dawn of Nothing - Oh, make haste!
cmh114@psuvm.psu.edu
From: seawasp@vm2.cis.pitt.edu (Sea Wasp)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.movies
Subject: Re: MAD MAX...best of the series
Date: 28 Sep 92 04:33:41 GMT
Organization: University of Pittsburgh
Originator: seawasp@pmax1.cis.pitt.edu

In article <1992Sep28.041143.21389@athena.mit.edu> eprice@sql.sybas.com writes:
>Someone:

>>>> Talking about Mad Max, which of the 3 do you think are the best

>warda@vax.oxford.ac.uk:
>>>Well, for what it's worth, I preferred MMI by far.  II was certainly more
>>>spectacular, and III was, to me, a good example of what can go wrong when you
>>>get a substantial budget increase, and your backers have high expectations of

>gre253@mis.csiro.au (Steven Green):
>>I agree 100% ! The original is a classic movie! II sucked, and III ( well

>I am very happy to see that there are others who share my opinion on
>these movies; I agree 100% as well.  But I notice that both of you are
>outside the USA!  I know of very few (any?) Americans, besides myself,
>who prefer MAD MAX to ROAD WARRIOR (MAD MAX 2).

	Oh, well, with three artistic boosters up there I might as well
fulfill my apparent role as net.philistine and say

	I found Mad Max to be a good film, but a bit choppy. The Road 
Warrior was an improvement. Thunderdome was a pleasant surprise, a
big-budget upgrade that seemed, to me, to preserve the spirit of
the first two while giving it the extra boost of the money and 
production values.

	So I rate them precisely opposite. So sue me. 


                                 Sea Wasp
                                   /^\
                                   ;;;
From: v115p8d6@ubvmsb.cc.buffalo.edu (I have a cunning plan...)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.movies
Subject: Re: BR: Raw oysters, boiled dogs, tequila worms, calfskin wallets.
Date: 5 Oct 92 13:19:00 GMT
Followup-To: rec.arts.sf.movies
Organization: University at Buffalo
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41

In article <10516@uqcspe.cs.uq.oz.au>, muzzle@cs.uq.oz.au writes...
>In <1aogbkINNcl0@usenet.INS.CWRU.Edu> bx916@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Ross W. Starkey) writes:
> 
> 
>>To get away from the shouting match for a while:
> 
>>In Blade Runner (all cuts), why would Rachel turn in a guy for giving
>>her a calfskin wallet?  What's the big deal about calfskin?  Not like
>>the world's gone veggie or anything... 

maybe it has. considering how rare real animals are, society may have changed
to protect the few that are left so that giving someone a calfskin wallet
might provoke the same reaction that giving them a wallet made of human
skin would.

just a thought.

> 
>Remember that "real" animals are extremely rare and expensive....
> 
>eg:
> 
>DECKARD: [looking at snake] Is it real?
> 
>ZORHA: Of course not.  Do you think I'd be working here if I could afford a
>       real one?
>
From: daf31428@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (David A. Fleming)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.movies
Subject: Alien director's cut
Date: 30 Sep 92 23:34:12 GMT
Article-I.D.: news.BvF051.5Ev
Organization: University of Illinois at Urbana


	Well, I haven't seen it mentioned here, so I guess _I_ will. :-

	The last time I was up in an store specializing in LDs in suburban
Chicago, they had a notice put up for the director's cut of Alien (no, NOT
plural :-).  It's the same kinda deal they had for the sequel -- CAV,
letterboxed, added scenes, blahblahblah.  Cost?  Only $100.  Not TOO much,
huh?  Right... :-
	If I remember correctly, the release date was to be sometime towards
the end of October -- maybe Halloween.


			Dave Fleming
			daf31428@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu
From: smith@ctron.com (Larry Smith)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.movies
Subject: Re: Aliens & Predators
Date: 2 Oct 92 17:19:11 GMT
Reply-To: smith@ctron.com
Organization: Cabletron Systems, Inc.

What would an Alien look like and be like if it incubated _inside_ a
Predator???  Now _that's_ something I _really_ wouldn't like to meet
in a dark alley - or in broad daylight, for that matter...

Larry Smith (smith@ctron.com)  No, I don't speak for Cabletron.  Need you ask?
-
How about we all do something reasonable?  I bet that'll confuse 'em!
From: jmann@vineland.pubs.stratus.com (Jim Mann)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.movies
Subject: Re: Jules Verne Movies - Mysterious Island
Date: 28 Sep 92 14:56:40 GMT
Reply-To: jmann@vineland.pubs.stratus.com

In article <2ac348cd@ESS.NIAID.pc.niaid.nih.gov>  
James_Williams@ess.niaid.pc.niaid.nih.GOV (James Williams) writes:
>> The second is the traditional version of the Verne Story with  
Captain 
> Nemo and the island of strange creatures.  I think that Ray  
Harryhausner 
> did the special effects for this movie.
> 

Depends upon what you mean by "traditional."  The book did not
have all the strange creatures found in the movie, and was much
closer in ways to Robinson Crusoe.  Of course, the book has
major chronolgy error: Nemo supposedly goes to the island
after the events in 20,000 Leagues Under the Sea.  The others
show up around the time of the Civil War. Yet, 20,000 Leagues Under
the Sea took place about 20 years after the Civil War.

--
Jim Mann            
Stratus Computer   jmann@vineland.pubs.stratus.com  
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.movies
From: chrstie@ccu.umanitoba.ca (William John M. Christie)
Subject: Re: GUNHED - Translator wanted!!!
Organization: University of Manitoba, Winnipeg, Canada
Date: Tue, 29 Sep 1992 06:57:09 GMT

Although I haven't seen the movie Viz Select Comics did a short series on
it.  The comic adaptation I guess seemed fairly adequate (until I can find
it here I can't really compare) and was done of course in English.

==========================================================================
  Any opinions expressed above are usually made with some thought which   
  is my own and is not intended to represent the University in any way.
==========================================================================
A day will come when beings shall stand upon   |    Wm. J. M. Christie
this Earth as one stands upon a footstool, and |  University of Manitoba
laugh and reach their hands amidst the stars.  |   Winnipeg, MB, Canada
                           --H. G. Wells, 1902 | chrstie@ccu.UManitoba.CA
==========================================================================


-- 
==========================================================================
  Any opinions expressed above are usually made with some thought which   
  is my own and is not intended to represent the University in any way.
==========================================================================
From: CDOMS@VAX1.UMKC.EDU
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.movies
Subject: Cameron's cut "Abyss"
Date: 26 Sep 92 19:21:04 GMT

I have heard (yet another) rumor about Cameron's cut of the Abyss to 
be released on Laser Disc.  This rumor gives the month of December
as the time for the release (sorry I did not hear a day).  Can anyone
deny or confirm this rumor?

Carol Doms
University of Missouri-Kansas City
cdoms@umkcvax1
cdoms@vax1.umkc.edu
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.movies,rec.arts.movies,alt.cult-movies
From: mcginnis-john@CS.YALE.EDU (John McGinnis)
Subject: Re: BR: was the U.S. defeated by Japan in a war?
Organization: /m/mcginni/.organization
Date: Mon, 5 Oct 1992 15:21:14 GMT


In article <1aog6dINNcjj@usenet.INS.CWRU.Edu> bx916@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Ross W. Starkey) writes:

> 
> For your consideration - two datum from the film:
> 
> 1. The police I.D. badges display information in both English and
> Japanese.
> 
> 2. Near the beginning of the film, the aerial billboard advertising the
> offworld colonies - the "badyear blimp" if you like :-) or don't like -
> is sponsored by
> "[Japanese-sounding-company] - helping America into the NEW ORDER".
> 
> Now I'm not sure if all the information I present in (2) is correct,
> but I'm DAMNED sure about the "new order" bit.  This was something
> like eight years before George Bush, trusting his speechwriters, 
> uttered his "new world order" line.  the "New Order" line in Blade
> Runner was undoubtably inspired by the use of that phrase by the
> Axis powers (Germany and Japan) in World War II.
> 
> 
> Are we to gather, based on what we see in the film, that there has
> been a non-nuclear war between the United States and Japan, which
> Japan won?
> 
> Noodles and sushi for thought.
> 

My impression from the book and the movie run very contrary to this.  In the
book, there most definiately was a war, but it was nuclear.  In the book, the
Japanese element is just not there.  There is some reference to the Soviets,
but they are just as messed up.

In the movie, I got the impression that things were more just a result of a
cultural amalgamation.  Due to the large number of foreign immigrants in the
US, American culture had changed to include their culture.  Hence the Japanese
billboards and the sushi bar.  If you notice, the powere structure is still
white - the blade runners, the police, and Tyrel are all white and English
speakers.  But the culture on the street is sort of a jumble of everything.  It
is sort of like American cities now, with various areas where English is not
the common language, and mainstream American culture is not present, except
that the areas have all melted together.

- John
--
===========================================================================
|                                     | "Just like the Pied Piper         |
|        John McGinnis PC '93         |  Led rats through the streets.    |
|       mcginnis-john@yale.edu        |  We dance like the marionettes,   |
|           (203) 436-1504            |  Swaying to the Symphony...       |
|                                     |  Of Destruction"                  |
===========================================================================
-- 
===========================================================================
|                                     | "Just like the Pied Piper         |
|        John McGinnis PC '93         |  Led rats through the streets.    |
|       mcginnis-john@yale.edu        |  We dance like the marionettes,   |
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.movies
From: wildman@athena.mit.edu (Timothy Worsley)
Subject: Re: MAD MAX...best of the series
Reply-To: eprice@sql.sybas.com
Organization: Massachusetts Institute of Technology
Date: Mon, 28 Sep 1992 04:11:43 GMT

Someone:
>>> Talking about Mad Max, which of the 3 do you think are the best
>>> MMI
>>> MMII (Road Warrior in the US)
>>> MMIII Thunderdome

warda@vax.oxford.ac.uk:
>>Well, for what it's worth, I preferred MMI by far.  II was certainly more
>>spectacular, and III was, to me, a good example of what can go wrong when you
>>get a substantial budget increase, and your backers have high expectations of
>>commercial success.  I liked the Gothic minimalism of the first one - it felt
>>like a good Western.  Also the smaller touches - weird characters and

gre253@mis.csiro.au (Steven Green):
>I agree 100% ! The original is a classic movie! II sucked, and III ( well
>what can I say ) It REALLY sucked. Classic example of taking a good theme,
>moving it to another country ( the U.S of A ), hiring some "name" actors
>( Tina Turner et al ), spending LOTS of money and ending up with - CRAP!

I am very happy to see that there are others who share my opinion on
these movies; I agree 100% as well.  But I notice that both of you are
outside the USA!  I know of very few (any?) Americans, besides myself,
who prefer MAD MAX to ROAD WARRIOR (MAD MAX 2).

I think that MAD MAX : MAD MAX 2 is similar to TERMINATOR : T2.  The
originals are infinitely superior (if less spectacular) films.  If
they make a T3 I would not be at all surprised if it is as stupid as
the third Mad Max film either...

(All IMHO, of course.)

-Ed (not Tim), eprice@sql.sybase.com (not wildman@...)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.movies