HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: cshi@cs.ulowell.edu (Chunde Shi)
Subject: Re: Shen Tong's Arrest Confirmed
Organization: University of Massachusetts at Lowell Computer Science
Date: Tue, 1 Sep 1992 23:55:53 GMT

In article <Btx69J.3L0@usenet.ucs.indiana.edu> "Ignatius Ding" <ding@HPSMTC1.CUP.HP.COM> writes:
>
>      This is a follow-up report to the UPI/CBS news report regarding the
>confirmed arrest of Shen Tong in Beijing at 1:30AM, Tuesday Beijing time, or
>1:30PM/EDT, Monday.  According to Marshall Strauss, Executive Director of the
>Democracy for China Fund of Newton, Mass, two other individuals, Qi Da-Feng and
>Qian Liyan (wife of dissident student Xiong Yang), were also arrested along
>with Shen at his family's home.
>
>      Please call or fax an emergency plea immediately to the U.S. senators of
>your state, or members of national parliament if you live outside of the United
>States.  We must act quickly.  These three courageous young fellows might be
>saved from severe tortures if we can generate enough pressure in the
>international community.
>
>
>Ignatius Ding
>SVDC Communications
This is carfully orchestrated PR action to get "protection bill" passed, as
with the "hunger strike".
Backgrounds:
   1. Yesterday eveny, NPR(National Public Radio) reported that the PR(Public
Relation)Firm that was hired by Kuwait Government, forged "baby incubator was
snatched away" atrocity of Iraqis was hired by "Chinese Students" too. My
speculation is that "Democracy for China Fund" is another "Citizens for Free
Kuwait" pieced together with cash by the PR Firm. 
   2. According to BBC this morning, in the interview with Rose Terrill, who
has very strong British accent, a border memeber of the Organization  and 
went China with Shen Tong, Rose Terrill
said that Shen Tong felt strang that why had not CG interven what He had been
doing in China for Month before the arrest. It indicated that His purpose of
the trip was to get arrested, to create another "human Right abuse" incident,
for the sake of "Protection Bill".
   3. Shen Tong is only a pupet of the Organization. Real power is in the hand
of Marshall Strauss who control the funding. Shen Tong had to consult him
every day through phone when Shen was in China.
   4. In this scheme, they even had coded word for their success: "Is this
Andrea" to indicate Shen was arrested;
   5. Qute Marshall Strauss after their success, in a conference: "The Chinese
are faced with a public relations disaster and the rest of the world must
exert presure for his(shen) release". That is the real purpose, "PR disaster"
for the Chinese.


Newsgroups: talk.politics.china
From: liu9yong@athena.mit.edu ()
Subject: Re: Forwarding: SHEN Tong's Human Rights
Organization: Massachusetts Institute of Technology
Date: Fri, 4 Sep 1992 00:25:52 GMT

In article <1992Sep3.144712.6979@midway.uchicago.edu> xc17@midway.uchicago.edu writes:
>In article <1992Sep3.033616.29670@athena.mit.edu> liu9yong@athena.mit.edu () writes:
>>In article <Btz4yv.7E4@usenet.ucs.indiana.edu> Bo Xiong <xiong@BSU-CS.BSU.EDU> writes:
>>>The following was posted to talk.politics.china but not china-nt:
>>>
>>>(I know this forwarding will go back to talk.politics.china, but it's
>>> not my fault :-)
>>>
>>>------------------------- Forwarding Begins -----------------------------
>>>Newsgroups: talk.politics.china
>>>From: xc17@quads.uchicago.edu (xiaoyong  chai)
>>>Subject: Shameful Speculations
>>>Organization: University of Chicago Computing Organizations
>>>Date: Wed, 2 Sep 1992 16:19:35 GMT
>>>
>>> I finaly saw some sensible posts on this group about Shen Tong's arrest. I
>>>did think we would see no sympathy to Shen in this group.
>>>
>>> A question to all those who seem to have a problem with Shen Tong's plan and
>>>"setup", do you believe that it is Shen's fundemantal human right to do
>>>what he has done. It is well caculated allright, so what,
>>
>>funny! Don't you guys still remember that guy who when interviewed, claimed
> ^^^^^^
>Well, well , well, is this guy trying to show the net that  he has the most
>terrible taste in the world. What so funny about someone else getting arrested
>for exercising basic human right?
>
>>his favorite two fundamental [speaking] rights are "fuck you" and "so what"?
>>and whose favorite [eating] right "cheese"?
>>
>
>Hey, get your point staight (assuming you have one), if you want to making
>fun of human right with your sickening joke which  no healthy mind can enjoy, 
>why don't you send it to "People's Daily"
>
>>These things just poped into my mind when I read your note.
>
>It may not be a bad thing for you to reveal what will automatically
>pop into your  (?) mind.
>
>>
>>To be honest, what's the positive impact Shen Tong's act (note, ACT) will have
>>on the bettering of China and Chinese?
>
>Does anybody smell a fish here? Somehow I feel party political studying session
>just started, I guess you have prepaired a long list which do not better
>China Chinese, (not metion CCP though). i.e. 89pro-democracy movement is
>one of them,   Let's all follow you sneakily skip the question whether the 
>arrest is justified and how to get him released, and starting rerecognizing
>how western human right crap will hurt YOUR "China" and YOUR "Chinese"
>
>Nice try! Keep trying!
> 
>Xiaoyong Chai
>From U of Chicago

Don't get super-sensitive, Mr. :-) My first sentence was intended to relax
everyone a bit, my second question IS a question (which you fail to answer).

By the way, I am very dumb, having never been to a "party studying session"
in my whole, entire life, I would really know something about it from you.
Would you mind telling me?
From: JUENKUNG@RAMOTH.USC.EDU
Newsgroups: talk.politics.china
Subject: Re:  garbage document No.44
Date: 29 Aug 92 00:16:00 GMT
Reply-To: JUENKUNG@RAMOTH.USC.EDU
Organization: Indiana University
Comments: cc: china-nt%uga.cc.uga.edu@USC.EDU


	I agree with you based on my several years of working experiences
in China before I came to USA. Laws, policies, Documents are all garbages
except leader's words. Unfortunately, even leader's words are changing so
fast and so unpredicted, sometime so hard to understand!
From: ifcss@WAM.UMD.EDU (IFCSS HQ)
Newsgroups: talk.politics.china
Subject: IFCSS HQ NR-4014 Shen Tong Rescue Update
Date: 4 Sep 92 17:10:15 GMT
Reply-To: IFCSS HQ <ifcss@WAM.UMD.EDU>
Organization: Indiana University
Comments: To: china-nt@uga.cc.uga.edu

**************************************************************
IFCSS Headquarters News Release No. 4014     September 4, 1992
              SHEN TONG RESCUE UPDATE
**************************************************************
Independent Federation of Chinese Students and Scholars (IFCSS)
   733 15th Street, N.W., Suite 440, Washington, D.C.20005
         Tel. (202)347-0017  Fax: (202)347-0018
                Email: ifcss@wam.umd.edu


               Shen Tong Rescue Update
               =======================

     The following memo was sent to several U.S. Government
offices in Washington D.C. this morning.

----------------------------------------------------------------

     At 10:10 this morning, IFCSS officer Shi Heping called Shen
Tong's mother Li Yining at her residence in Beijing. She had not
heard from Shen Tong since the day of arrest. Yesterday, when she
demanded information on Shen's whereabouts, she was told that
Shen had been sent to an "assigned place."

     According to Shen Tong's mother, no warrant was shown when
Shen Tong was arrested, nor was any specific charge mentioned.
Yesterday, she submitted a letter protesting the unlawful arrest
of her son and demanding his immediate release.

     Shen Tong's mother said that there were rumors that Shen
Tong had already been released. She believed that such rumors
were designed to obstruct efforts to rescue Shen Tong. She
appealed for urgent help.

     Based on above information and on behalf of the Chinese
students in the United States, IFCSS urges your office to take
further actions to pressure the Chinese government to release
Shen Tong and his two associates.

     Thank you for your attention.


***************************************************************
         IFCSS Headquarters Office    Signature
***************************************************************
Newsgroups: talk.politics.china
From: xlli@silver.ucs.indiana.edu (xiao-lin li)
Subject: Re:      Re: someone who sounds funny
Organization: Indiana University
Date: Wed, 2 Sep 1992 21:48:04 GMT

In article <1992Sep2.200110.6956@athena.mit.edu> zhuh@athena.mit.edu (Hui Zhu) writes:
>The fact is:
>CG/CCP didn't bother him for quite a long time, until he was going to hold a
>meeting/ceremony of an orgnization, or whatever, targeting at overtune the government.
>
>Did his action violate any laws in China?  I can not say much before I know
>everything he did, but the likehood is high. Why? Since in China, or in US, 
>any action aiming  at overtune the government is illegal.  Besides, in China, 
>any orgnization, by law, should register itself in PB first.
>
>Therefore, we can see even if Shen did NOT violate any law in China, he is 
>definite a suspect by any means, therefore, PB has the right to "grab"  him.

I would like to say that "overturning" government is too strong a word.
I doubt Shen has motivation and ability to do that. I'd rather think
he was trying to push for co-existence of Chinese people with different
political opinions and different views toward things (such as 6/4 Massacre).
I prefer China to become a country where different opinions (including
communist opinion) can exist peacefully. I think that will make a more
stable society.

The old generation gain their power by fighting the war. They could claim
that the country was their because they had paid blood. But what about
the new generation? The debt of the country has already been paid off to the
old generation. The country does not owe Li Peng for his absolute power.




Newsgroups: talk.politics.china
From: zhuh@athena.mit.edu (Hui Zhu)
Subject: Re:      Re: someone who sounds funny
Organization: Massachusetts Institute of Technology
Date: Thu, 3 Sep 1992 14:20:16 GMT

In article <Btz0K4.33w@usenet.ucs.indiana.edu>, xlli@silver.ucs.indiana.edu (xiao-lin li) writes:
|> In article <1992Sep2.200110.6956@athena.mit.edu> zhuh@athena.mit.edu (Hui Zhu) writes:
|> >The fact is:
|> >CG/CCP didn't bother him for quite a long time, until he was going to hold a
|> >meeting/ceremony of an orgnization, or whatever, targeting at overtune the government.
|> >
|> >Did his action violate any laws in China?  I can not say much before I know
|> >everything he did, but the likehood is high. Why? Since in China, or in US, 
|> >any action aiming  at overtune the government is illegal.  Besides, in China, 
|> >any orgnization, by law, should register itself in PB first.
|> >
|> >Therefore, we can see even if Shen did NOT violate any law in China, he is 
|> >definite a suspect by any means, therefore, PB has the right to "grab"  him.
|> 
|> I would like to say that "overturning" government is too strong a word.
|> I doubt Shen has motivation and ability to do that. I'd rather think
|> he was trying to push for co-existence of Chinese people with different
|> political opinions and different views toward things (such as 6/4 Massacre).
|> I prefer China to become a country where different opinions (including
|> communist opinion) can exist peacefully. I think that will make a more
|> stable society.

Well, in China, (Not stated in Constitution, though), "counter-revolution"
is the correct name for that. Maybe "overturning" government is more
proper there.

However, there no evidence from you on his motivation right now. As for
his ability, that doesn't matter in this case at all.  :)


Newsgroups: talk.politics.china
From: Yuan M Jiang <ymj1@CUNIXB.CC.COLUMBIA.EDU>
Subject:      Hu Ping's New Book (revised posting)
Reply-To: Yuan M Jiang <ymj1@CUNIXB.CC.COLUMBIA.EDU>
Organization: Indiana University
Date: Wed, 2 Sep 1992 18:29:30 GMT
Comments: cc: talk.politics.china@archive.cis.ohio-state.edu

Oxford University Press just published a new book
by Mr. Hu Ping, one of the best known Chinese
dissidents "1989 Chinese Democracy Movement
Reflection."  It's in Chinese.

Hu Ping is well known for his analysis on Chinese
politics and political theory.  His best known
articles include "On Freedom of Expression," which
was first posted in Beijing Democracy Wall and
Beijing University around 1980.  He was the chief
editor for China Spring for many years.

The book is can be ordered from
Oxford University Press
18/F Warwick House
Tong Chong Street
Quarry Bay, HOng Kong
Telefax (852)5658491
Newsgroups: talk.politics.china
From: grad student Weihua Liu <whliu@EE.UMN.EDU>
Subject:      William Deng should go to a Chinese jail
Reply-To: grad student Weihua Liu <whliu@EE.UMN.EDU>
Organization: Indiana University
Date: Wed, 2 Sep 1992 15:12:33 GMT
Comments: To: china-nt@uga.cc.uga.edu

William Deng should have an experience of a Chinese jail to get
a taste of being famous.
Newsgroups: talk.politics.china
From: XIAOJIAN@CCIT.ARIZONA.EDU
Subject:      A reply to xpeng's attack
Reply-To: XIAOJIAN@CCIT.ARIZONA.EDU
Organization: Indiana University
Date: Wed, 2 Sep 1992 04:55:00 GMT
Comments: To: china-nt@uga.cc.uga.edu

From:	IN%"xpeng@Athena.MIT.EDU"  1-SEP-1992 21:10

>>William Deng
-------------
>Nice rationale, isn't it?

>How about a setup like the following:

>A guy loves to be the son of CCP.  It was a real honor and beneficial before.
>While, this guy is smart.  He knows it will look stupid of just being the son
>of CCP at this time.  So he somehow managed of getting a popular "Democracy
>Fighter" mask for himself first.  Then he can be the "Democratic" son of CCP.
>So to join the 89's democratic movemont was just a setup for being the
>"Democractic" son of CCP.  A nicer setup, isn't it? Shen Tong's setup is so
>shallow.  And this guy's vision is so far.

	To clear my name and avoid further personal attack, I have to reveal
some of my previous activities so you could judge whether I am qualified to
call myself a demcracy-fighter:
	In 1986 students movement, I was the first guy in the whole movement
who stood up to call students to demonstate in the street. When: Dec.4,1986.
Where: School hall of USTC (KeDa), Hefei. Audience: almost all KeDa people.
I was also a major organizer of the first demonstation in the 86 movement
which was held on Dec.5,1986 in Hefei, Anhui, and a major dialogue
representative to have dialogue with officers held in the Anhui provincial
headquarter at the same day.


William Deng
Newsgroups: talk.politics.china
From: liang@cs.scarolina.edu (Da Dong Liang)
Subject: Re: response to Mr. W. Dong and Mr. T. Bao's comments
Organization: USC  Department of Computer Science
Date:  3 Sep 92 21:13:38 GMT

s9874194@phobos.ucc.umass.edu (s9874194) writes:
>> 
>>Secondly, the communist authority in Beijing not only broke its own early
>>promise, but also violated the current constitution by arresting Shen Tong.
>>Shen did not take in any "anti-revolutionary" or "anti-constitutional"
>>activities yet before he was arrested by the Beijing authority, eventhough he
>>might have planned to do so.  Based on the current constitution practised in
>>China, its citizen has the right and the freedom to establish organizations, to
>>have meeting or conference.  Shen just wanted to practise his right and
>>freedom conferred on him by the constitution.

Is Mr. Shen still a Chinese citizen? Has he got approvement from Chinese 
government before setting up his office which is in essence a political
organization? 

Even though you don't agree with the laws of China, you still have to obey 
them before they are changed. You can challenge the law by legitimate ways,
though, such as lobbying. 

Consider you are an American citizen. If you don't like abortion, you
can apply for a protest. But if you block the abortion clinic, you will
be arrested. That simple, isn't it?

>> 
>>Thirdly and most importantly, the current constitution practised in China is
>>not writen and has not been approved by the Chinese people, therefore the
>>constitution is not constitutional.  All versons of the consititution were and
>>are passed in the so called "People's Congress", but remember all the People's
>>Congress deputies were and are not elected by the Chinese people, so they could
>>not, can not and never represent the Chinese people.  As this constitution is
>>not constitutional and has not been approved by the its people, therefore its
>>people has no obligation to obbey the contitution.
>> 

The American constitution was written two hundred years ago. The current 
Americans didn't approve it because they were not born yet at that time.
So do you think they have right to disobey it?

>>Fourthly, if that is the case that anyone should be arrested or be executed
>>because he or she violated any consititution, Chairman Mao and the other
>>so-called revolutionaries in China must be first arrested or be executed
>>becasue they first violated the constitution of the Republic of China in 1920s,
>>30s and 40s.
>> 

Most of them were punished by KMT. Mao was just one of the lucky guys among
them. In fact, his first wife and some brothers were killed for the violation
of the laws. If you have the courage to face death, go ahead and don't whine
about being put into jail.  

>> 
>>Petter He
>I just have some comments on your understanding of Constitution. Have you
>approved the Constitution of the United States? Do you have the obligation
>to obey it? If someone want to change it, what s/he should do?

Newsgroups: talk.politics.china
From: Haosheng Zhou <philz@ee.umanitoba.ca>
Subject:      Re: China's Interests
Reply-To: Haosheng Zhou <philz@ee.umanitoba.ca>
Organization: Indiana University
Date: Thu, 3 Sep 1992 08:23:41 GMT
Comments: To: china-nt@uga.cc.uga.edu

I would like to comment on "China's interests" here.

A concept such as "China's interests" is always controversial and cannot
be defined by one sentence. Also, Chinese's interests are not always
accumulative. On the contrary, Chinese's interests are often opposite
with each other.

Let us take a look at Canada. Canada has signed a free-trade contract
with US. But this is still a big controversial issue. Some Canadian
think Canada will benefit from free trade while other Canadian say the
free trade sales Canada to US. Just at the present moment, Canadian in
Quebec are still not sure if they should get independent from Canada.

Now let us take a look at China. The interests of Chinese peoples from
Mainland, Taiwan and Hong Kong are different. In fact, CCP and KMT are
still enemy and CCP is still trying hard to eliminate the living space
of Taiwan in international communities.

In Mainland China, there are interests of Tibetan and Mongolian etc.
In Taiwan, there are interests of DCP (or CDP?) besides of those of KMT.

Question: who can represent all Chinese peoples (or Chinese's interests,
so to speek)? NO ONE CAN except some illusions from politician.

Totalitarianists in China always claim that they represent Chinese
people. For this sake then they have to suppress other peoples who they
cannot represent. This is, part of Chinese people discriminate against
other Chinese peoples. Yes, Chinese people discriminate against Chinese
peoples. Such discrimination is even stronger than that from racism
considering that Chinese are so kind to foreigners.

We need a government and a constitution that do not discriminate Chinese
peoples. We need a system in which different peoples can live, not kill
with each other.

If one can, at the most, represent a group of people, then what can he
do in his activities? Shen Tong, for example, acts for a group of people
who are concerned with human rights. Some of his comrades are still in
jail and some, were dead. I am sure some other people have different
interests but this does not hurt that Shen Tong has done his best for
the interests of his group, with his bravery. Could every Chinese act
for his group, like what Shen Tong has done, China would have a bright
tomorrow.

Bottom line: don't try to represent all Chinese people and their
interests. Always think about yourself and your group. If one can not
identify his group, he will be in trouble.

Haosheng Zhou

P.S. I don't see anything wrong in seeking for greencard. A greencard
holder can be either pro-CCP or pro-D. It is really doesn't matter.
While Chinese leaders enjoy their good lifes, why not other groups of
people?
Newsgroups: talk.politics.china
From: lwang@mariner.amc.edu.au (Lou  Wang)
Subject: test
Organization: Australian Maritime College
Date: Wed, 26 Aug 92 01:40:44 GMT

Please ignore it.
Newsgroups: talk.politics.china
From: "Ignatius Ding" <ding@HPSMTC1.CUP.HP.COM>
Subject:      Letter from U.S. Congressional Offices to Beijing
Reply-To: "Ignatius Ding" <ding@HPSMTC1.CUP.HP.COM>
Organization: Indiana University
Date: Thu, 3 Sep 1992 22:09:26 GMT
Comments: To: Dennis.D.Lee@Eng.Sun.COM, donovan@csl.sri.com,
              hknet@cs.wisc.edu, ho@mips.com,
              ifcss%WAM.UMD.EDU@uga.cc.uga.edu,
              joseph_ng%5y@hp0200.desk.hp.com, jung_lin%40@hp1900.desk.hp.COM,
              sdc@longhorn.Corp.sun.com, ggach@pandora.sf.ca.us,
              xwu@janus.Berkeley.EDU, cnd-editor@sdsc.edu,
              melody@hpsmtc1.cup.hp.com, jchu@hpsmtc1.cup.hp.com,
              wuling@s1.msi.umn.edu, li@perry.berkeley.edu,
              jyee@eclair.berkeley.edu, Isaac.Chen@Eng.Sun.COM,
              ide!ide.com!cai@uunet.UU.NET, wwang@mail1.cis.umn.edu,
              china-nt@uga.cc.uga.edu, china@diva.berkeley.edu

We just received a copy of the attached letter from the office of the U.S.
Congressional Human Rights Caucus.  Post here for your info.


Ignatius Ding
SVDC Communications
===============================================================================

		       Congressional Human Rights Caucus
			 U.S. House of Representatives
			     Washington, D.C. 20513



						   September 3, 1992

Premier Li Peng
Premier, State Council
Beijing, China


Dear Premier Li:


As members of the Congressional Human Rights Caucus, we are writing to express
our deep concern over the recent arrest of Shen Tong, Qi Dafeng, and Qian
Liyun.

We have been informed that these three human rights activists were arrested on
September 1 at the home of Shen's mother in Beijing.  News accounts indicate
that they have been detained on account of their work to establish a branch
office of the Democracy for China Fund in Beijing.  The Democracy for China
Fund, which is chaired by Shen Tong, is committed to the ideas of non-violence
and democracy and is widely respected in the United States.

We strongly protest the detention of Shen Tong, Qi Dafeng, and Qian Liyun, and
we call on you to secure their immediate release from custody.	We urge your
government to respect the rights of those who have dedicated themselves to
promoting human rights and democracy in China.



				  Sincerely,



<Signature>			 <Signature>			    <Signature>

John Porter			 Joseph Moakley 		    Tom Lantos
Co-Chairman			 Caucus Member			    Co-Chairman
Newsgroups: talk.politics.china