HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.christia
Date:         Tue, 10 Nov 1992 13:46:32 CST
From:         Tom Brewer <NOTTMB@LSUVM.BITNET>
Subject:      Re: CHRIST AS A ROLE MODEL.
              10 Nov 1992 14:03:00 EST from <GRAHAM%DRCV06.decnet@DRCVAX.AF.MIL>

Dan:

Concerning Christ as a role model, that is what the so-called "Neo-Orthodoxy"
teaches. The first Adam failed; the second Adam succeeded. We can act like
the second Adam because He has freed us from sin. And of course with this
false teaching comes a universal salvation.

I have the desire to be more like Christ, but I know that I can never become
righteous as Christ is righteous in perfect holiness. I cannot work myself into
holiness. I need a substitute to plead my case. I have the righteousness of
Jesus Christ because of His grace, not because of my works. The holiness God
requires, God has provided.

Tom Brewer
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Date:         Sat, 7 Nov 1992 13:56:55 -0700
From:         ERNESTOM@EPCC.BITNET
Subject: Re: Trinity

AT THE RIVER JORDAN - THE LORD'S BAPTISM

       Matt. 3:13-17  - Jn. 1:26-34

This manifestation was a sign for John the Baptist so he would be
able to identiy the Lord Jesus Christ as the Lord's outward appearance
was like any other man John 1:26, 31 and 33.   John 3:13 - He is on
earth and heaven at the same time.
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Newsgroups: bit.listserv.christia
Date:         Tue, 10 Nov 1992 12:44:37 CST
From:         A16905@ITESO.BITNET
Subject: Re: The Gospel

Jesse,

What do you mean ? You mean for example, veneration to the Virgion and Saints ?
Well, that is not as fundamental as the Bible.

The main problem is that many christians say 'All the Bible and just the Bible'
while the general catholic position is 'All the Bible applied to our present
reality and all that doesn't go against the Bible and is good for people'.

By 'Owner of the Universe' I mean that
Jesus has property rights over all creation.
Doesn't He ?

Shalom,
Memo.
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Newsgroups: bit.listserv.christia
Date:         Wed, 4 Nov 1992 11:24:54 CST
From:         Jesse Carnes <NOTJIC@LSUVM.BITNET>
Subject:      Jesse puttin' money where his mouth is!!

Dear All on Christia ;

I am saying this as a public post.
This is in reply to Brad Kaiser who made the assertion that firstly, I was
being a racist and secondly, that I needed to support MY assertion regarding
the Council of Trent PUBLICALLY.

Now I am not going to reiterate Brad's statements, for he is capable of
being honest, so to speak.

So, what I did was to speak in "american" dialect, phonically, as if a
person from the East were attempting to speak english, but with difficulty.
My motive was to use humour to cool down a bit, rather than scathe at Brad.
We all need to avoid acting like the liberals do and have a sense of humour for
a change. :-)
Seriously though, I was accused of not being forthright in the most pointed
of terms.  Now, I CAN go to the Council of Trent and support my position
against Free Will by indicating what ROME   O F F I C I A L L Y    teaches.
If someone out there wants me to put my money, PUBLICALLY, where my mouth
is, I am willing to do it.  Otherwise I would like Brad to research this
himself.  And serious research is somethin' many on the "net" need to do
more ... and   p l e a s e   do not say that I think that I am superior in
that regard, for I do need improvement ... the Lord knows.


Rather sad over it all, really   :-(
Jesse Carnes
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Newsgroups: bit.listserv.christia
Date:         Sat, 7 Nov 1992 16:00:33 EST
From:         JEK@NIHCU.BITNET
Subject:      Willibrord of Utrecht (7 Nov 739)

      WILLIBRORD OF UTRECHT, ARCHBISHOP AND MISSIONARY (NOV 7 739)

      Willibrord, first Archbishop of Utrecht, is one of the
missionaries sent out by the Anglo-Saxon Christians about a century
after they had themselves been Christianized by missionaries in the
south and east of England from Rome and the Continent, and in the
north and west from the Celtic peoples of Scotland, Ireland, and
Wales.
      Our information about Willibrord comes to us from the
Venerable Bede (HISTORY OF THE ENGLISH CHURCH AND PEOPLE, v. 10-11)
and from a biography by his younger kinsman Alcuin (Minister of
Education under the Emperor Charlemagne). Willibrord was born in
Northumbria in England about 658, and studied in France and Ireland.
In 690 he set out with 12 companions to preach to the pagans of
Frisia (now called the Netherlands). His work was interrupted
several times by wars, and he left for a while to preach to the
Danes instead. He died 7 November 739.
      Willibrord is a symbol of ties between the Christians of
England and those of Holland. Today the historic See of Utrecht is
in full communion with the Church of England.

        Almighty God, who in thy providence didst choose thy
   servant Willibrord to be an apostle to the Frisian people, to
   bring those who were wandering in darkness and error to the
   true light and knowledge of thee:  Grant us so to walk in that
   light, that we may come at last to the light of everlasting
   life; through the merits of Jesus Christ our Lord, who liveth
   and reigneth with thee and the Holy Spirit, one God, now and
   for ever.
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Newsgroups: bit.listserv.christia
Date:         Mon, 9 Nov 1992 21:12:00 EST
From:         MSIMMON1@ITHACA.BITNET
Subject:      Re: Freedon of speech.

Just a little food for thought (even if you're not hungry):

If Christians go out of their way to ban everything that is even slightly
against them (us), then effectively they (we) will create a country that
denies evil, at least in classroom literature.  Doesn't that defeat the
purpose of Christ's death on the Cross?  He died to give us a CHOICE for
salvation and eternal life - if all non-Christian literature is banned,
then where is that choice?  I say leave it there - don't be so sensitive
brothers and sisters - our children need to learn that all the world is not
pure, but we must strive for purity - though it be uphill in a hurricane -
using the salvation of Jesus Christ.  That would also be my argument AGAINST
home-schooling.  Sheltering children in their early years only makes sin more
tempting later on.  Trust me, I know - I have friends who will testify to it.
We are "Living in a Lost World" (WhiteCross) and you just gotta "Choose to
lose of Live to Win" ('Love God, Hate Sin' - Mylon).
MCS-IC

p.s.   I meant "you gotta 'Choose to lose OR Live to Win"'  thanks  :)
From: MNHCC@CUNYVM.BITNET (Marty Helgesen)
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.christia
Subject: Re: CALL
Date: 8 Nov 92 20:43:21 GMT
Organization: City University of New York/ University Computer Center

In article <921108.13100092.053311@USM.CP6>, THERESA BLACKWELL
<TBLACKWL@USMCP6.BITNET> says:
>
>Marty.  You said that the magazine/publication is free to college
>students???? How can I get it?
>Just wondering, because I'm most definately a pro-lifer.
>Thanks for the interesting, and informative post...
>"G"
>
> * <TBLACKWL@USMCP6.BITNET>
Write to:
 Collegians Activated to Liberate Life,
 1605 Monroe Street, Suite 107
 Madison, WI 53711

or call 608 238-5262

Marty Helgesen
From: gjm11@cus.cam.ac.uk (G.J. McCaughan)
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.christia
Subject: Re:      Freedom Withheld
Date: 9 Nov 92 02:33:16 GMT
Organization: U of Cambridge, England

In article <CHRISTIA%92110717545056@ASUACAD.BITNET>,         "Michael A. Kline" <MKLINE@VDH.BITNET> writes:

> A junior from South Albany High School stated that he has been forbidden
> to end a school newsletter article with the words "God Bless." The
> principal states that nothing can be printed in a school publication that
> might appear to be religious in nature.
> 
> The school however does REQUIRE students to read "One Flew Over The
> Cuckoo's Next;" a book which contains profanity and perversion, even the
> gang-rape of a mentally disturbed man."
> 
> President Bush and Clinton end their speeches with "God Bless America"
> but in schools no freedom of speech.

Careful. The Bible contains war, adultery, attempted gang-rape, actual
rape, demons, all sorts of things. Just because a book mentions something
doesn't mean it approves it; I'm pretty sure "One Flew Over The Cuckoo's
Nest" is not advocating any of the things you describe.

It's sad that children are not allowed to put "God bless" at the end of an
article, and that is something worth making some fuss about, perhaps. But
I really don't think you should jump on the bandwagon of complaining about
books so readily: that way madness lies, as with the group that recently
tried to stop primary schools using the Narnia books of C S Lewis because
there was a witch in one of them.

-- 
Gareth McCaughan     Dept. of Pure Mathematics & Mathematical Statistics,
gjm11@cus.cam.ac.uk  Cambridge University, England.    [Research student]
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From: ksb@santafe.edu
Subject: Before the Foundation of the World
Date: Wed, 11 Nov 92 18:25:11 GMT
Organization: Santa Fe Institute
Reply-To: ksb@santafe.edu

I have an infant godson who is going to be baptized in the Catholic church
soon, and his parents have indicated to me that God will not know of this
child's entry into the world until after he has been baptized.

 Can anyone point me to a passage in the Bible indicating that God has
knowledge of the entry into this world of each and every human being via a
physical birth and that He has had this knowledge *on His own* since before the
foundation of the world?  I recall vague references to this matter in the
churches (Baptist, evangelical) I have attended over the years, but I can't
find a scriptural reference to back it up.  Please pardon my paraphrasing here,
but the passage I'm thinking of reads something like "He knew you before the
foundation of the world..."

While I do not intend to debate this point with the parents of my godson (nor
do I wish to start a long thread of Catholic-Protestant debate [a fruitless
endeavor for all] by asking this question), I would greatly appreciate your
pointing me toward the appropriate passages in the Bible.  

(Perhaps I am wrong and there is no scripture that points to this.)

Thanks for your help.

ksb@santafe.edu  


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Newsgroups: bit.listserv.christia
Date:         Tue, 10 Nov 1992 16:32:05 EST
From:         carol nemec <YA67@FERRIS.BITNET>
Subject:      CHRIST AS A ROLE MODEL.

WHAT STANDARD DO WE USE TO MEASURE OUR CHRISTIAN LIFE?  NO STANDARD IS
OFFERED IN THE NEW TESTAMENT.  WE DON'T NEED A STANDARD, WE NEED ONLY TO
KEEP LOOKING AT THE SAVIOR AND LISTENING TO THE PRODDINGS OF THE SPIRIT.
WE DON'T NEED TO EXAMINE OURSELVES FOR SIN.  PAUL'S EXHORTATIONS TO SELF
EXAMINATION, TAKEN IN CONTEXT, ARE REFERRING TO DOCTRINE AND BELIEF, NOT
SINS.

YOUR TALLY OF SINS HAS NOT THING ONE TO DO WITH YOUR SALVATION, OR KEEPING
YOUR SALVATION, SO WHY COMPARE YOURSELF TO ANYONE?

DAN GRAHAM


Well, I think there is a place in the New Testament that says we
should be perfect...

Be ye therefore perfect, as your Father in heaven is perfect. Mat 5:48

Since Jesus and the Father are one, then we should try to be like
Jesus.  I will never attain this, but I know when I am forgiven,
my sins are forgotten, and I am perfect, until the next sin.  But
God has forgotten the previous sins.

So I will use Jesus alone as my role model and ask forgiveness the
many times I fall so short of His example.

On another topic...

Didn't Jesus also say something about doing for the least among us...
feeding, clothing,etc...and thus doing for Him?  Perfect example
of what are responsibilities are while in this world.  It is hard
to make a disciple of one who is starving.

Carol Nemec
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.christia
Date:         Mon, 9 Nov 1992 07:23:09 CST
From:         Jesse Carnes <NOTJIC@LSUVM.BITNET>
Subject:      Re: Blood of Christ
              8 Nov 1992 03:02:38 EST from <AMZIMM01@ULKYVM.LOUISVILLE.EDU>

Angela ;

Murder indeed is wrong.
Even the Jewish Torah's "Ten Commandments" say as much.
However, when we look at the Pentateuch's 16th chapter of the book of
Leviticus, we see a paradigmfor the removal of sin.
Substitutionary sacrifice of animals was the Old Testament's ritual for the
removal of guilt ... at least for purposes of acceptability for approaching
the Lord God in worship.

Jesus Christ was, as the New Testament book of Hebrews reports, the final
sin substitute for sins.  By His substitution of himself in the place of
sinners, their sins were ACTUALLY removed (Expiated).
The book of Hebrews also says specifically that "...without the shedding of
blood there is NO FORGIVENESS of sin."  Further, it goes on to say that Jesus'
blood did what the blood of bulls and goats could never do and in fact were
never designed to do.

It sounds heinous, sscandelous, indeed, but it was the shedding of an
innocent man's blood for guilty people that their sins are removed and
the Father is completely satisfied in His justice.


I can write more to you if you desire.


Jesse Carnes
From: FACN34B@SAUPM00.BITNET (zane of dhahran)
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.christia
Subject: advice
Date: 10 Nov 92 12:22:33 GMT
Organization: King Fahd University of Petroleum and Minerals, S.A.
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Ok, I am sure some of you parents out there have had to deal with this so I'd
like to know how you handle it.

Yesterday my 11 year old son was slapped around by a local kid in front of the
kids parents and they didn't do anything to stop it. I wasn't there.  My son
says he wasn't going to fight back in front of the kids family because if they
were letting the kid hit on him, he didn't figure he'd get a good deal if he
started fighting back.  Maybe he was just scared too.  He is a pretty sensitive
kid.

In the states we generally told them to just get away quick and not fight back
because 1) we don't think fighting is Godly, 2) When you are a minority and you
fight back with White kids, you usually get blamed whether you started it or
not. (no offence intended here, that is just what we've experienced)

What kind of advice do you give your kids about this sort of thing?  And what
is your theology behind the advice?   Help...
                                                      zane of dhahran
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Newsgroups: bit.listserv.christia
Date:         Fri, 13 Nov 1992 10:39:00 EST
From:         "SHELBY A. CROSS" <LIBSAC@EMUVM1.BITNET>
Subject:      Reply-Prayer Request-Matthew

Hi Matthew,

You are  exactly right. This  indeed is  an attack from  satan. Sometimes
this  happens to  me. Satan  just  wants to  see  what you  will take.  I
will wake  up in  the morning  not being  able to  breathe hardly  at all
and  my chest  will be  very conjested.  Last year  I said  that I  would
not just  sit and  take any  sickness satan  throws at  me. So  when this
happens, I  get up and command  satan to leave  in Jesus Name. I  tell my
flesh  that it  will have  to  line up  with  God's Word  that by  Jesus'
stripes I  am healed and  that I  am not moved  by symptoms of  any kind.
I thank  the Lord  for my healing  in advance and  believe that  God will
honor His  Word and that whatever  God has called  for me to do  that day
will  get done  in Jesus  Name. I  go back  to bed  still not  being able
to breathe,  but thanking  the Lord  for my healing  and standing  on His
promise. I  get up a couple  of hours later, breathing  normally, healed.
This is  just like combat.  Will we just lie  down and take  anything and
or will  we fight back? The  mere fact that  God has given you  a message
will let  you know  that satan  wants to stop  this message  from getting
out.

Rise  up Matthew  to  the occasion  to  fight back  the  forces of  evil.
Believe  and receive  God's  promise for  your health.  By  the time  you
get where you are  going, most of the time the  symptoms are gone, Praise
God!!!  This happens  to my  husband most  of the  time before  and some-
times  after the  Lord  uses him.  The  devil  does not  want  you to  go
forward  at all,  but this  is not  going to  go the  devil's way  - it's
going to go God's way in Jesus Name.

Dear Heavenly Father,

We come against  every symptom, all sickness, and disease  in Jesus Name.
We take  authority over this  and speak to  this mountain of  illness and
command it  to leave. Sickness,  disease, and pain  we resist you  in the
name of  Jesus. You're not  the will of God  for Matthew. We  enforce the
Word of  God on you.  We will not tolerate  you in Matthew's  life. Leave
his  presence. In  the Name  of Jesus  Matthew will  not allow  you back.
His days of sickness and disease are  over. Matthew is the saved, and the
healed; and because  Jesus bore his sickness, weakness,  and pain Matthew
is free  in the mighty  Name of Jesus. Sickness  shall no longer  lord it
over Matthew,  he's been redeemed  because Jesus  has paid the  price for
for  his  spirit,  soul,  and  body. We  proclaim  Matthew's  freedom  in
Jesus Name.  We receive  the Gospel,  we act on  the Gospel,  and Matthew
be  healed  in  Jesus Name.  In  Jesus  Name  we  pray. Amen.  and  Amen.

Your sister in Christ,

Shelby and Christia Prayer Warriors (Smile)
From: A16905@ITESO.BITNET
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.christia
Subject: Re: The Gospel
Date: 12 Nov 92 18:04:48 GMT
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU

Jesse,

You can't be diametrically opposed to Catholicism, you preach, as we do, that
Jesus is the Lord.

Shalom,
Memo.
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Newsgroups: bit.listserv.christia
Date:         Wed, 4 Nov 1992 15:39:38 CST
Comments:     Answering received message
From:         THERESA BLACKWELL <TBLACKWL@USMCP6.BITNET>
Subject:      Last shall be first...

And the Humble shall be exhalted.  I know, but still... there should
be things taken into consideration...like Senior standings and whether or
not one is a music major.  These two things should be FIRST and foremost in
the mind of the adjudicator, right?
Makes sense to me...
I'll not be ho-hum about this much longer, because I'm gonna work my rear
end off, and see who sits in my current spot next time.
I have one year.
"G"

 * <TBLACKWL@USMCP6.BITNET>
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Newsgroups: bit.listserv.christia
Date:         Tue, 10 Nov 1992 11:06:20 CST
From:         Jesse Carnes <NOTJIC@LSUVM.BITNET>
Subject:      Re: WHAT WE OFFER GOD?
              10 Nov 1992 11:40:16 -0500 from <ewanco@MLO.DEC.COM>

Eric ;

How do you KNOW for certain, within Biblical perameters that our wills are
merely WEAKENED ... by Biblical definition?


Jesse Carnes
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Newsgroups: bit.listserv.christia
Date:         Tue, 10 Nov 1992 05:19:51 EST
From:         "SHELBY A. CROSS" <LIBSAC@EMUVM1.BITNET>
Subject:      Reply-Prayer Request-Glenn

Hi Glenn,

You never know  what tool God will  use as a witness. The  Word says that
some plant,  some water, but God  gives the increase. God  also says that
His Word  never returns unto  Him void, but  will prosper where  He sends
it.

Dear Heavenly Father,

We thank you for  all the many blessings that you bestow  on us each day.
We ask Father that you will prosper this opportunity for Glenn to witness
using this  avenue, and that  souls will be  drawn by your  precious Holy
Spirit. Lord  use Glenn to  be able share the  Good News to  others. Help
us all to let Your light shine through  us. Lord we ask you to give Glenn
your wisdom  and understanding.  May he  have your  love, joy,  and peace
always.  In Jesus mighty Name.  Amen.

Your sister in Christ,

Shelby--
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Date:         Thu, 12 Nov 1992 14:05:09 -0600
From:         MARCHIBOLD@MSCD.BITNET
Subject:      Re: Whose will is dominant?

Jesse -

Scott answered your question of me.  When an unsaved person chooses to believe
that Jesus is who He said He is and to call Jesus his/her Lord and Saviour
he/she has made a good choice.

Molly
From: gjm11@cus.cam.ac.uk (G.J. McCaughan)
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.christia
Subject: Re:      Whose will is dominant?
Date: 13 Nov 92 00:26:16 GMT
Organization: U of Cambridge, England

In article <CHRISTIA%92111111594396@ASUACAD.BITNET>,         "DRCV06::GRAHAM" <GRAHAM%DRCV06.decnet@DRCVAX.AF.MIL> writes:

> You are walking down the street and a man comes up to you and takes your
> arm, opens your hand and places a bundle of 100 dollar bills in it.  He
> closes your hand, says, "This is yours, you have it, it cannot be taken
> from you," and moves on.  You are going to argue?  You are going to insist
> you want to have a choice?  You are going to tell him you want the right to
> choose or reject the gift?  I think not.
> 
> Speaking only of salvation, why on earth do you want a choice?

I'm not all that bothered whether I get a choice or not. I want everyone to
have a choice; I'm no happier at other people being condemned to hell than
I would be with myself being condemned to hell.

This is not my reason for not having the same view of predestination as yours,
by the way; it's just an answer to the question of why I want there to be a
choice. Of course my wants don't come into it much.

-- 
Gareth McCaughan     Dept. of Pure Mathematics & Mathematical Statistics,
gjm11@cus.cam.ac.uk  Cambridge University, England.    [Research student]
From: NOTJIC@LSUVM.BITNET (Jesse Carnes)
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.christia
Subject: Re: Whose will is dominant?
Date: 12 Nov 92 16:15:53 GMT
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU

Dear Molly ;

What do you mean when you say we must "ACCEPT" Jesus' sacrifice?
The Word of God says that we are to believe the Gospel and repent.
(SEE my post on "What is the Gospel?")

Jesse Carnes
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.christia
Date:         Wed, 11 Nov 1992 09:24:03 CST
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From:         JLong <JLONG@UA1VM.BITNET>
Subject:      Re:CHRIST AS A ROLE MODEL.

Maybe I'm reading something different here but Paul said "follow me as I
follow Christ".  Because he could fail.  But Jesus never fails.

Not to put man down but he can fail or might let us down.  But Jesus won't.
We need to get our eye off of man and look to Christ.

Your sister in Christ
Janie
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