From: dyer@spdcc.com (Steve Dyer)
Subject: Re: WARNING: Stealth African Marauding soc.motss
Organization: S.P. Dyer Computer Consulting, Cambridge MA
Date: Mon, 12 Oct 1992 02:34:39 GMT

In article <1992Oct11.210838.14784@wam.umd.edu> lovegod@wam.umd.edu (Donald Andrew Agarrat) writes:
>} >I sure wish soc.motss could be a more positive influence in my life ...
>} Whine.
>Do you think belittling and diluting my comments helps the situation?

Maybe.  Maybe I'm clueing you in to the way you came off in that post
of yours.  Do you think my lying to you and patronizing you would be
better?  Listen, Donald, earlier we were discussing being well-spoken
and articulate.  You were not articulate in that last article of yours
because it didn't describe your situation at all.  Instead, you blasted
in (as you usually do) with a giant chip on your shoulder and no explanation.
There's no mind reader which comes with netnews.  Got it?

>What the  
>fuck are you doing about the problems I've addressed when I DON'T whine.

And what problems are those, Donald?  How much video play Prince's
"Dirty Mothafucker" gets?  If you mean your current situation, hang on
below.  

>Do  you think I'm supposed to be impressed just because you can roll off token
>Black names that you treat like mere accessories in your pocketbook?

That was sarcasm.  You missed it before, you'll miss it again.

>And how  
>can you compare me ranting and raving over serious problems between the races  
>to trite comments about whether or not Madonna or Dietrich will be remembered  
>in 60 years?  And that's only one example!

Donald, you were not ranting and raving over the serious problems between
the races.  You were simply ranting and raving.  "Me, me, me, me, me,
soc.motss sucks--you don't talk about anything I'm interested in, me, me,
me, race relations suck, me, me, me, I bashed a white boy, who the hell
cares anyway, me, me, me."  That's a precis of your article.  OK?  We're not
talking about great oratory here.  We're not talking serious discussion
about anything--it didn't say _anything_ about what happened here.

>It's so obvious that you're not trying to understand.

What?  You?  I think it's real sad that you're so angry.  I think it's
an outrage what you describe below.  Race relations?  That's a big
task--but you're not emblematic for me of the state of race relations.

>I'm glad this is trivial to someone in the world with a name.

Says "Lovegod" to Steve.  Mine doesn't compare.

>When I chose that name, I was such a different person.  So optimistic.
>Actually, that's a song ("Optimistic", by the Sounds of Blackness, a
>gospel choir).  I would just sing along:  "You can win/As long as you
>keep your head to the sky/Be Optimistic."  But it's such a lie!  I
>obviously can't win!  That fact is thrown up in my face everyday!

What's your major, Donald?  Surely it's something more than hash-slinging
in a cafeteria.

>You have said that this is just self-pity on my part, and you are exactly
>right!  It's pity!  I feel pity because I feel that I, as a Black Gay
>man, have no future.

Maybe you need to talk to some other Black gay men.  The ones I know
are as successful as myself and my peers.  That's not to say that they're
representative of all Black gay men--surely not.  There's also self-
selection going on, admittedly.  And they certainly have to face the
racism in our society every day in a way that I don't.  But they're also
not singing your tune: what's the difference there?

>I feel that no matter how I try to be optimistic about race relations,
>I will still have to go to my local campus cafeteria where Blacks
>still serves Whites, where Blacks still must clean up after White
>snot-nosed kids

There are (at least) two issues here.  One is that many if not most
of these cafeteria workers are glad to be employed.  UMD is a school
in the DC area.  There's a big black population in the DC area.  UMD
is a big employer.  Lots of black people are undoubtedly employed there.
The second issue is that due to class and race factors, lots of blacks
are going to be employed in service positions which do not require
higher education.  The same is true for many whites (my own cafeteria
ages ago seemed to consist of Irish grandmothers.)  The issue at hand
is not why Blacks are working in your cafeteria but why there isn't
a better representation at higher positions.  You're not telling me
that UMD is lily-white above this.  At the same time, it's probably
far from satisfactory.  But your own attendance at such a good state
university is precisely how this to to be achieved.

>while being ridiculed by not only the Whites, but also some Blacks
>that probably would not even be in school if not for their sacrifice!

Sounds like there are some Black snot-nosed kids there too.
If these people being ridiculed, it's unacceptable.  Now what?

>But yet, I'm supposed to Be Optimistic and Keep Hope Alive.  Bullshit!

What you're supposed to do is use your wits and not a baseball bat,
if you aspire to something other than a degree in license plate making.

>} Hey, Donald, what's your opinion of BWMT or MACT?
>I think it's a mockery.

I'll bet you do.

>} Well, this sounds familiar in a gay context.  What constitutes "acceptance"
>} by your standards?  As far as "acceptance" on soc.motss goes, what would you
>} want?  What would change your opinion?  Or to be more frank, Donald, what
>} would it take from us or any individual here for you to kwitchur whining
>} and feel like a part of the contributors here?  Or is that even possible?
>
>Don't try to satisfy me now that I have had to "whine."  It only proves my  
>point.  

What point is that, Donald?  That people are obligated to extend to you
courtesies which would make them say "fuck you" to anyone else?  You invited
a "fuck you"; I gave you one.  It was an equal-opportunity "fuck you".

>} You may have to be worried about more than being kicked out.  Beating
>} someone with a baseball bat is a good way to be transferred into one of
>} our institutes of lower education and cell rape.  Anybody who does this
>} has more problems than anyone on the net can solve, regardless of the
>} outrageousness of the catalytic event.  I think a good shrink is in order.
>} Seriously.  _Not_ because you're fed up with white racism, but because
>} you've got to do something more constructive and focussed in response
>} than bash people with baseball bats.
>
>Like what?  Go and vote?  Do little nice things so Whites like you won't feel  
>threatened when Blacks like me get upset.  gee, that sounds so nice, and safe.

Well, son, I'd say study and get good grades...  Listen, what you describe
below is harassment, pure and simple.  You know, there are ways to use the
system for empowerment which do not involve bashing someone with a baseball
bat.  The RA was delinquent.  The students behavior was unacceptable and
grounds for investigation.  There _has_ to be an office somewhere on
campus which deals with such stuff.  Did it occur to you to use that?

>That the long and short of it.  It all started at the beginning of the
>semester, when this White boy stood right there and threw a Frisbee at
>me while I'm standing in the hallway.  He didn't act like he want to
>apologize, so I stepped to him and I wanted to knock his teeth out.
>[...] Three weeks went by and people where throwing shit in front of
>my door, writing shit (anonymously) on the RA's door about me, and
>giving me all kinds of dirty looks.  I went to the RA and he didn't see
>any problem if noone was physically hurting me.

Step 1: take it above his head.

Then what happened?  Donald, bashing the guy with a baseball bat
doesn't solve your problem, it only makes it worse.

>} >while simultaneously wading through the usual White diatribes,
>} Snort.  White diatribes my white ass.
>If the truth hurts, then you'll be in pain.

OK, Donald.  Let me tell you: the paragraph above hurts.  It hurts
to hear that someone has to go thru that today.  If you want to
talk about racism and the trials of being a gay black man, this is a
fine place for it.  Telling me that soc.motss stinks because only
"White" stuff is being discussed (and not going into what was really
eating you) didn't hurt--it just invited dismissal.

-- 
Steve Dyer
dyer@ursa-major.spdcc.com aka {ima,harvard,rayssd,linus,m2c}!spdcc!dyer
Newsgroups: soc.motss