HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: anon-1012@twwells.com (All Me of Us)
Newsgroups: alt.sexual.abuse.recovery
Subject: Re: Anonymous Posting For a Net-Friend:  She Needs Serious Advice
Date: 22 Jul 92 21:12:15 GMT
Organization: Anonymous Posting Service at twwells.com
X-Email-Accepted: yes

Sherri writes (in response to anonymous letter from Diane):
>One of the most important things you can do is talk to your
>boyfriend about it.  Expect a reaction, he may want to go out and beat the
>guy up.  You may want to think about what you do and don't want him to do
>while you tell him about it and explain it before you sit down.  Make sure
>you have a good chunk of time in which to do this.  A sampler opener may be,
>"I have some things I want to tell you about my life, and they're difficult
>for me to talk about and will probably be difficult for you to hear.  I
>want to tell you when I can have your attention for ___ hours at least.  Is
>this a good time for you?"  If he says yes, you can state some things about
>what your comfortable with.  Would you rather he said nothing until you were
>done or would you prefer that he give feedback and ask questions?  Would you
>prefer not to be touched or would you like to hold hands and be hugged as you
>talk?  Are you comfortable with anger or would it frighten you even if it
>was directed at other people.  The more guidelines you can set the more you
>can insure that you'll be able to really say what you need to say.  It's a
>way of taking care of yourself.

Sherri, this is wonderful.  And it also sounds extremely scary to do.
I remember times when I tried to tell my (almost-ex) husband things
about my past and about my abuse, and all he wanted to do was ask
questions ("who was it? what happened?) instead of just listen to
the stories and the feelings.  I love the part about asking not to
see any anger expressed if it's too hard for me, even if it's directed
at other people.  This is an incredibly empowering list of suggestions;
I hope I can remember it the next time I'm in a relationship where I
feel the need to share parts of my story.

Thanks again.  And good luck, Diane; I hope you find the courage to
do whatever you need to.


All Me of Us




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Newsgroups: alt.sexual.abuse.recovery
From: bear@tigger.cs.Colorado.EDU (Bear Giles)
Subject: Re: PBS documentary "Promise Not To Tell"
Organization: National Oceanic & Atmospheric Adminstration / Boulder Labs
Date: Wed, 29 Jul 1992 02:03:42 GMT

In article <_#nmk3b.boserj@netcom.com> boserj@netcom.com (Jeffrey Boser) writes:
>In article <1992Jul28.171039.23690@usenet.ins.cwru.edu> bu850@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Karla M. Alwan) writes:
>>>     Several lawmakers came forth to say they would fight for
>>>stiff penalties for false accusations of child sexual abuse.  In a
>>>poll taken by a TV station, 87% of Utahans agreed this would  be a
>>>good idea.  9% disagreed.  The other 4% were undecided.
>>
>>Oh great!  that's all we need...  more laws to protect the 
>>child abusers.  When the fuck are people gonna wake up and start
>>making laws to protect the abused?!?!?
>
>Karla, it is now common practice in this country for women to accuse
>the fathers of sexual abuse in separation proceedings.  During the
>hate and pain involved in the separation, these accusations ruin
>the relationship of the father with his children, often get the women
>custody, and also hurt the father's relationship with the community.

I agree.  There's also been an upswing of women falsely accusing men
of rape, incidently.  Thanks to a recent Supreme Court ruling, btw,
the fact the accuser steps forward later and recants _may not_ be
enough to get an innocent man out of prison, or even get him a new
trial!  (Conviction requires establishment of guilt, but release
requires "compelling evidence of _innocence_").

I don't think cracking down on false accusation will protect child
abusers, however:  if there is _any_ physical evidence it will be
impossible to prove false accusation.  But it _will_ stop divorcing
parents from trivializing child abuse by using it as a bludgeon.


Bear Giles
bear@fsl.noaa.gov
From: tcederqu@sdcc13.ucsd.edu (Trevor Cederquist)
Newsgroups: alt.sexual.abuse.recovery
Subject: Re: Multi-generational Abuse
Date: 22 Jul 92 18:01:11 GMT
Organization: University of California, San Diego

In article <o6HmNB3w164w@penn.Gwinnett.COM> tdelaney@penn.Gwinnett.COM (ted delaney) writes:
>ssalter@silver.ucs.indiana.edu (-=[SLS]=-) writes:
>
>> anon-1140@twwells.com (Wild Flower) says:
>> 
>> >  
>> >  This whole thing terrifies me!  Does this cycle ever end?  Is this 
>> >  abusive treat genetic?  I mean, is it possible to carry down from 
>> >  generation to generation?  My two great uncles are the only blood 
>> 
>wierdly enough, that is one reason that I am very very very glad that I am
>gay! I don't have to worry about (pardon the term) Breeding.....and having
>kids....growing up I was TERRIFIED to think of what kind of parenting skills
>I would have, or what kind of parent I would be....(I was abused by all 3 parents)

Yeah, that's the way I felt about getting my tubes tied.  The relief
was incredible...
-- 
===============================================================================

	It is a strong and deep resevoir of hope my partner and
	I keep, to bear children with the confidence that they
	will know a life better than ours, at the very least because
	they will both know supportive and loving parents.	

	We are both survivors of childhood sexual abuse.


    
	
Newsgroups: alt.sexual.abuse.recovery
From: motto@cbnewsf.cb.att.com (mary.rita.otto)
Subject: Re: Loss and how to adjust/Joan's son
Organization: AT&T
Distribution: usa
Date: Sat, 25 Jul 1992 17:07:47 GMT

In article <_7hmdj#.jdiamond@netcom.com> jdiamond@netcom.com (Joan M. Diamond) writes:
>In article <1992Jul23.224504.21017@uc.msc.edu> eab@uh.msc.edu (Edward Bertsch) writes:
>>the other poster's story, but Joan, what ever happened to the guy
>>who killed your son?
>>
>It's funny, but I seem to be the only person who never really cared much
>about this guy's punishment.  Maybe I was too busy with my sense of loss.

>>Prison is too good for people who do
>>things like what happened to your son. 
>>
>He has to live with what he did for the rest of his life.  I can't think
>of a greater justice than that.  He was messed up, an abused kid, he
>believed that he was a good person, administering discipline.  He didn't
>realize how easy it is to go too far.  He lost his temper and I lost my
>child.  If anything, I feel pity.

Joan -
I admire your strength.  I also share your observation that sometimes
it is those who have suffered the loss who care the least what happens
to those who caused the loss.  I have seen how futile anger and blaming
and obsessive interest in the cause of the loss and how it can be
brought to justice has ripped apart people I love.  When in the angry
stage of grieving you are not dealing with things that must be addressed,
but you have to finish the anger and move on in order to live your life.
I have seen too many tragic examples of people who have never been able
to heal from their losses because they stayed angry.

The worst part about "justice" is that it can't bring back what has been
lost.  Nothing can.  And even seeing justice served cannot cure the
bitterness that remains when healing is not complete.  You are wise
and brave to deal with things as you have and to hold fast to the
memories of your son.  I am so glad that you shared your powerful
story with all of us.

Mary Otto


Newsgroups: alt.sexual.abuse.recovery
From: Susan R Pence <srpence@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu>
Subject: Re: uprooting, goodbyes
Organization: The Ohio State University
Date: Mon, 27 Jul 1992 23:10:17 GMT

Lisa writes:

>>I hope I can hang on to the strength I've found here.

I agree and I hope you find new sources of hope and strength!

>>Take care, Lisa

Indeed, take care Lisa! (And take care of Lisa!)

                                           Susan
Newsgroups: alt.sexual.abuse.recovery
From: erc@unislc.uucp (Ed Carp)
Subject: Re: Further to Karla
X-Newsreader: Tin 1.1 PL4
Organization: Unisys Corporation SLC
Date: Fri, 31 Jul 1992 15:58:00 GMT

anon-1159@twwells.com (Kristian) writes:

:     [A note for someone else who posted:  I  do  not  agree that 
:     survivors are only concerned with their own issues and are 
:     unaware of how difficult it is for their partners.  I think 
:     some  of  us struggle constantly to grasp just enough self-esteem
:     to be able for  moment to stop catering to someone else's 
:     needs and sensitivities which we've always put ahead of our own,
:     to give just a little validation to our own identity!]

When I spoke of "their own issues" I was also referring to the need to care
about someone else.  Sometimes that need is so overpowering that the
survivor doesn't see the effect that is having on others - and are hurt when
others reject what the survivor sees as compassionate, loving care.  It's
just another fear-based defense mecahanism - "If I care about you, you won't
have any reason to attack me."

When a survivor develops enough self-esteem to start believeing in themselves,
that usually starts to go away, and life starts becoming more balanced.  Of
course, there's always the danger that it will go the other way, but it
eventually balances out (or one would hope, anyway). :)

-- 
Ed Carp, N7EKG     erc@apple.com                801/269-8125
"This is the final task I will ever give you, and it  goes  on  forever.   Act
happy, feel happy, be happy, without a reason in the world. Then you can love,
and do what you will."           -- Dan Millman, "Way Of The Peaceful Warrior"
From: Bede_Jarrow@hikssrv.lib.purdue.edu (Lisa)
Newsgroups: alt.sexual.abuse.recovery
Subject: uprooting, goodbyes
Date: 27 Jul 92 15:22:20 GMT
Reply-To: Bede_Jarrow@hikssrv.lib.purdue.edu (Lisa)

I've begun to pack now and all seems in disarray.  I hate moving and
disorientation.  However, I'm glad that my friends are helping me; I decided
not to wait for my parents to arrive this weekend, as I know from experience
that I'd have a better chance at getting things packed the way I want if they
did not help.

My therapist told me the hardest people to be assertive with are one's parents;
that's certainly true for me.

Welcome to all the newcomers on the net.  I wish I could stay around to know
you better.  I hope to be back sometime.

A lot of friends are taking me out to lunch this week; that is one good thing
about moving!  

I'm going with another friend to see an insurance agent today.

I hope I can hang on to the strength I've found here.  Please keep me in your
thoughts/prayers.  thanks to all who've sent snail addresses/phones.

Take care, Lisa

P.S.  This is not a final goodbye; I'll post again this week.
Newsgroups: alt.sexual.abuse.recovery
From: anon-1055@twwells.com (m&m)
Subject: Thank you anon-1155
Organization: Anonymous Posting Service at twwells.com
Date: Mon, 27 Jul 1992 15:13:26 GMT

I wanted to send this email, but you are not receiving it.
A GREAT BIG THANK_YOU!

I have received very few replies from parents who have struggled
with this issue.  Yours is especially valuable :)

Fare-Well

m&m



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Newsgroups: alt.sexual.abuse.recovery
From: rbn@ralph.rtpnc.epa.gov (Bob Boyd)
Subject: Re: magazines..
Organization: UNISYS/Environmental Protection Agency
Date: Mon, 27 Jul 1992 21:24:24 GMT

bu850@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Karla M. Alwan) writes:
> 
> 
> Anyone know of any "recovery" magazines around, and where I
> can subscribe to them?  I know there are a few around,
> but I forget what they are, and don't have addresses or
> anything.
> 
> Thanks,
> 
Here is one of them:

US Journal Inc publishes "Changes" for $18 -- 6 issues/year.
You can contact them at 800-851-9100 or
3201 S.W. 15th St.
Deerfield Beach, FL 33442-8190 
USA

There is a bi-monthly magazine available dealing with sex and relationship 
addiction issues from SLAA.  The magazine is called The Journal and I think
it is $12/year.  You can reach the SLAA office at 617-332-1845.
Or write them at: 
PO Box 119
New Town Branch
Boston, MA 02258
USA
--

Bob Boyd
In The Here & Now
Newsgroups: alt.sexual.abuse.recovery
From: bu850@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Karla M. Alwan)
Subject: magazines..
Reply-To: bu850@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Karla M. Alwan)
Organization: Case Western Reserve University, Cleveland, OH (USA)
Date: Mon, 27 Jul 92 20:33:31 GMT



Anyone know of any "recovery" magazines around, and where I
can subscribe to them?  I know there are a few around,
but I forget what they are, and don't have addresses or
anything.

Thanks,

Karla
-- 
|alwan573@pirates.armstrong.edu   <=== USE THIS ONE!          
|Karla.Alwan@lambada.oit.unc.edu             |
|ng548@dsom_op.pnl.gov                       |
|bu850@cwns16.ins.cwru.edu                   |
From: tdelaney@penn.Gwinnett.COM (ted delaney)
Newsgroups: alt.sexual.abuse.recovery
Subject: Re: NEW & ALREADY DISAPPOINTED IN SAR
Date: 20 Jul 92 03:33:14 GMT

Tanya_Davis.esh.qmail.slac.stanford.edu (Tanya Davis) writes:
> 
> Maybe this group isn't what I thought it would be at first glance, but I
> must say I'm very disappointed so far.  I posted, the other day, to say
> that I'm a new user of this net system and that I had seen this group and
> had read some of the postings; I also said that I wasn't exactly sure what
> this group's structure was, or what exactly goes on.  I asked for someone
> to please post back and explain this group/category whatever -- that I
> would like to get involved with this group and talk about some things and
> listen etc.  I haven't received any response, yet I have noticed that this
> category has an abundance of postings all the time.

  well, speaking for me, and me ONLY, I didn't see the post, that is NOT to
  say it didn't go by....for me/us, I have been taking this group with a large
  grain of salt as of late, I am trying to get over a slight aversion to the
  group that resulted due to a sorta flame way/grumpy fest. that recently
  happened....for ME, I have been a little gun shy- sorry I missed your post-
  (I tend to not be one of the welcomers....(that is NO excuse I know..)

Ted
Newsgroups: alt.sexual.abuse.recovery
From: bu850@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Karla M. Alwan)
Subject: all the time
Reply-To: bu850@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Karla M. Alwan)
Organization: Case Western Reserve University, Cleveland, OH (USA)
Date: Mon, 27 Jul 92 17:48:28 GMT


Hi everyone!


...there seem to be cycles in my healing...  Currently
I am in the part in the cycle where I talk about it (or 
rather think about it)  ALL the time.  It is the biggest
part of my life right now...  I think I am getting sick of
that, and I think my friends are too...  I need more in my
life than just dealing with abuse.  But I am so obsessed with
it sometimes...

Then, there are times when I take a break.  And I can go several
months without working on it.  Those are really peacfull times...

Anyone else get times where they talk about it (or think
about it) ALL the time?  

I wish I didn't...  I think I am driving my friends bannanas...

*hugs*  to all that want them...


-Karla
-- 
|alwan573@pirates.armstrong.edu   <=== USE THIS ONE!          
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|ng548@dsom_op.pnl.gov                       |
|bu850@cwns16.ins.cwru.edu                   |
Newsgroups: alt.sexual.abuse.recovery
From: bu850@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Karla M. Alwan)
Subject: Re: Thanks Karla
Reply-To: bu850@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Karla M. Alwan)
Organization: Case Western Reserve University, Cleveland, OH (USA)
Date: Fri, 31 Jul 92 18:08:30 GMT


In a previous article, sandro@asylum.UUCP (Sandro Wallach) says:

>
>>I don't think survivors understand how tough the job is, being their
>>partner.  All they can see is the abuse - they can't see how their reactions
>>to that abuse hurts those who love them.
>
>Please don't generalize like that.
>
>Many surivivors see very clearly how tough if it is to be their
>partner, when partner after partner gives up.  Also, many people
>exclusively date survivors of similar (or complementary) abuse,
>whether they know it or not.  Who is being tough on who, here?

Yeah...  I think *I* know how difficult it is to be a partner
of a survivor...  If someone steps on my toes I don't
automatically dump them...  Although it is a constant
stuggle to figure out did they make a mistiake, or were
they abusive?  should i give them another chance, or just
I tell them to go to hell..   It is very difficult for
a survivor, IMHO, to tell who is doing what right.  And yes,
it is really difficult to be a partner to someone like
this.  But, IMHO, I think I have a pretty clear grasp
of how hard it is.   I am a partner of a survivor too..

I think it is a bit unfair, Ed, for you to generalize that
survivors don't know how hard it is to be a partner...

>
>I tend to fall in love primarily with young men who are visibly
>tortured by the remains of their childhood sexual abuse.  I've seen
>them attacked by their ghosts and forced to reject me to save
>themselves.  It hurts like hell.  (And it forced me to questions why I
>was falling in love with them, and begin the long road of my own
>recovery.  I'm about 17,000 miles down that road know.  Does someone
>have a map handy, so I can see how much farther I have to go?  :-)
    ^^^^^^^^^


hehehe...  this made me laugh...  brightened my day a
little.  Thanks!   BTW, I don't have a map, but if you
find one could you please send me a copy?  thanks...

:)
*hugs* to all that want them...

-Karla


>
>
>>Ed Carp, N7EKG     erc@apple.com                801/269-8125
>
>	-- sandro
>

-- 
|alwan573@pirates.armstrong.edu   <=== USE THIS ONE!          
|Karla.Alwan@lambada.oit.unc.edu             |
|ng548@dsom_op.pnl.gov                       |
|bu850@cwns16.ins.cwru.edu                   |
Newsgroups: alt.sexual.abuse.recovery
From: anon-1159@twwells.com (Kristian)
Subject: A SAFE PLACE to post anon
Organization: Anonymous Posting Service at twwells.com
X-Email-Accepted: yes
Date: Wed, 29 Jul 1992 18:14:15 GMT

A posting from anon-1160 noted concern about posting anonymously.

Please don't feel judged or put a judgment on yourself for making
use of this  anonymous service.  That is what it is there for.  I
was grateful for it  PRECISELY because it gave me a SAFE PLACE to
speak while I am gathering forces.

Part of me has been  so  _freed_ since I started to come to terms
with having been abused as a child -- so much of my life that had
been confusing now makes sense and I  actually  feel  good  about
myself.    The immediate reaction was euphoric and  I  recognized
that, indeed, I WANTED to speak to and share with others.

My experience of abuse, however, told me that I  really  did need
to be assured of a SAFE PLACE (one of the  great things about the
male  survivors group I belong to).  Likewise my experience as  a
gay  man  in  coming out told me at least to be cautious  and  to
choose my forum carefully.

I  think that you can be sure that whatever you say or choose  to
share here  will strike a familiar chord with someone, so that at
least you will  know  that  there  will be understanding.  I have
been amazed at the depth of caring and support that are evidenced
by  some of the exchanges  (there  will  be  some  discussion  of
differences of opinion too, of course).

Anyway, just to let you know  that  numbers  of  us  (still) post
anonymously.  I have been thinking of switching to direct posting
but am still mulling it over.  I don't feel any pressure about it
and  I  am confident that if I do make  that  decision,  it  will
because  I  have become comfortable with it at whatever stage  of
healing I find myself.  Meanwhile, I am finding this a good forum
to read, to ask questions and occasionally to respond to others.

Good luck!  I hope you find strength in dealing with whatever you
have to!

"Kristian"



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Newsgroups: alt.sexual.abuse.recovery
From: boserj@netcom.com (Jeffrey Boser)
Subject: Re: PBS documentary "Promise Not To Tell"
Date: Wed, 29 Jul 92 00:20:56 GMT
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services  (408 241-9760 guest) 

In article <1992Jul28.171039.23690@usenet.ins.cwru.edu> bu850@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Karla M. Alwan) writes:
>>     Several lawmakers came forth to say they would fight for
>>stiff penalties for false accusations of child sexual abuse.  In a
>>poll taken by a TV station, 87% of Utahans agreed this would  be a
>>good idea.  9% disagreed.  The other 4% were undecided.
>
>Oh great!  that's all we need...  more laws to protect the 
>child abusers.  When the fuck are people gonna wake up and start
>making laws to protect the abused?!?!?

Karla, it is now common practice in this country for women to accuse
the fathers of sexual abuse in separation proceedings.  During the
hate and pain involved in the separation, these accusations ruin
the relationship of the father with his children, often get the women
custody, and also hurt the father's relationship with the community.

Before we strike out from our pain, and declare war on what caused it,
lets make sure who our enemies are, ok?  False accusations can cause
alot of damage and pain to those involved.  And I dont like the idea
of sacrificing our rights in our war against what hurt us.  The
founding fathers knew that alot of people would get away with some
terrible crimes because the laws they made...  if we give up that
burden, all or our lives would be forfeit to others, those claiming
rape or murder against us, using the law as a weapon.

The same laws that protect others protect you.  How would you feel
if some neighborhood kid decided to deny is father abused him and
claimed *you* did it.  Assuming innocence is the only thing that
keeps others from taking your kids away, from taking our house away,
from killing us or locking us up.  And we have been slowly giving
up that right because we are afraid of drugs, because we are afraid
of guns..  People who want this say:  'so?  The world is a safer place
because of it'...   I ask if we get the rights back after the war
is over, after we are safe again.  The war never ends.  We are never
safe.

There is no world where people dont hurt one another.  There is no world
where fathers dont rape their baby daughters, where mothers dont hit and strike
their children into silence..  however much we want that love, that peace,
from the world, it will never come.  The only thing we can do is bind
those we love to us, hold them in our arms and hope the world never comes
between us, while knowing that nothing lasts forever.  Its a hard thing
to face, reality is.  And you cannot help but cry if you see it, the
pain it brings...  but it is painfully and sadly beautiful, and occassionaly
something happens, like a friend, or love, that makes it worth while.


.....jeff
<warm embraces for those who need them>