HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: makowsky@enuxva.eas.asu.edu (David Makowsky)
Subject: Re: Autopsy - Kahane and Rosenbaum
Organization: Arizona State University
Date: Fri, 13 Nov 1992 19:54:47 GMT

In article <2790@israel.nysernet.org>, warren@nysernet.org (Warren Burstein) writes:

# In <92313.1945472893684@QUCDN.QueensU.CA# 2893684@QUCDN.QueensU.CA (andy) writes:
 
# [Two eyewitness accounts of acts of violence committed by members of
# the funeral procession (one of them mine) deleted to save space - go
# back and read them if you've forgotten.]
 
# >If Kahane had lived, what would he have thought?
 
# I don't know what he would have thought (although I can make some
# uncomplimentary guesses).  But I imagine he would have said that while
# his followers had nothing to do with it, he does not condemn the act.
# This is what he used to say after other violent acts were committed
# against non-Jews.

	I had nothing to do with the liberation of Jerusalem during the six
day war (which involved violence against non Jews).  I also do not condemn
the act.  I guess I am a racist.

# Unlike him, I do condemn these acts.

	What do you mean "unlike him"?  Because he is dead?  How do you
know what he would have dne or said.  That is a cheap shot.

# Unlike you, I do condemn his murder.

# People on both sides, please fire away - I'm going to duck.
# -- 
# /|/-\/-\          Adif tzav pinui metzav shmoneh.
#  |__/__/_/    
#  |warren@     
# / nysernet.org 			    Jerusalem


Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
From: scarfman@wam.umd.edu (Jonathan Smith)
Subject: Ohr Samayach, Jerusalem
Organization: University of Maryland, College Park
Date: Fri, 6 Nov 1992 03:21:14 GMT

Two Questions:

	-Do any current students at Ohr Samayach use the net.  Or, do any JLE's stay in touch?
	-How can I reach OS in the UK?

-thanks,
	jonathan

-------------------------------------------------------------
From Jonathan H. Smith       ||  Isaac Asimov  1920-1992
At the University of Maryland||------------------------------ 
in College Park		     ||  
			     || Now Residing in England
"What color is your scarf?"  || 
-------------------------------------------------------------
From: aplebaum@irs01.cs.huji.ac.il (Hillel Applebaum)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
Subject: Re: Modest dress in Judaism (was Re: sexism in Judaism)
Date: 8 Nov 92 15:10:16 GMT
Distribution: na
Organization: The Hebrew U. of Jerusalem, Computer Science Dep.
NNTP-Posting-Host: irs01.cs.huji.ac.il

In article <moochie.720983949@camelot>, moochie@camelot.bradley.edu (Melissa Koontz) writes:
|> 
|>    How would one determine what is modest dress for a young lady who
|> is attending a university?
|> 
For a young unmarried Jewish girl in a US university ? very easy:
a dress that would cause the non-Jews to turn away from you
BUT in the same time cause the Jewish boys turn and look at you

- o
 |
\_/

-- 

-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*--*-*-*-*-*-*-*-
/ Hillel P. Applebaum  |> ISRAEL - where all
/ Jerusalem,   Israel  |  jews should live !
-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*--*-*-*-*-*-*-*-
From: lmk2@garnet.berkeley.edu ()
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
Subject: Re: NYC Parking rules on Wednesdays - Why?
Date: 10 Nov 1992 03:23:46 GMT
Organization: University of California, Berkeley
NNTP-Posting-Host: garnet.berkeley.edu

In article <1992Nov9.090223.22084@sarah.albany.edu> sarah@albnyvms.bitnet writes:
>My great-grandmother had two kitchens - one next to the dining room 
>and the other hidden in the basement.  Why?  Her husband wanted her to
>cook trayf and she refused in "her" kitchen.  So he built another kitchen.
>She cooked "his" food in "His" kitchen. I can't remember it ever being
>used for any of us, though.  I guess maybe WE deserved better :-)
>
>Sarah, in Albany with a Migraine

So did my great-grandmother in Winnepeg (they came from the Ukraine).  The
family legend is that my great-grandfather ran away from Yeshiva there
and went to Canada, after he discovered that he could fill his empty
stomach by going to one villager's house for a dairy meal followed by a
visit to another house for a meat meal.  All that happened is that he
didn't go hungry (he said).  My great-grandmother's father was a Rabbi,
and he discovered this kitchen, but never said another word about it.

Leslie
Organization: Queen's University at Kingston
Date: Thu, 5 Nov 1992 23:54:47 EDT
From: andy <2893684@QUCDN.QueensU.CA>
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
Subject: Re: Andy Who Cares
 <96095@netnews.upenn.edu> <emc.720893206@tomalak>

In article <emc.720893206@tomalak>, emc@doe.carleton.ca (Eli Chiprout) says:
>The problem is that Sam is looking for hidden devils everywhere.  What
>Mr. X has to say should be more important than who he is.  Give the
>man the benefit of the doubt until he proves himself guilty of
>anti-semitism (which he has not done so far.  Disagreeing with Jews
>is not a mark of anti-semitism.  Racial slurs and hatred are).
>
>The price we pay to have our views heard, is to let others have
>as say as well.

This is true. I found it interesting Sam has not bothered to respond to the
fact that his own post shows the veracity of my claim that my student number
and userid are identical. I must assume he can no longer argue the point but
lacks the honour to concede he made a mistake or retract his accusation that
I am a "lier".

Also, there's a bit of bait and switch. His post seems to suggest that he
contacted a supervisor here and attempted to get me into trouble, thus my
getting upset. Sam says nothing in the original post about his not informing
Mr Hooper of my id or not returning his request (in any case, I have
corresponded to Mr Hooper myself whereupon he asked me to send him copies of
Sam's postings which are personally abusive, I shall do so only if Sam persists

) After I castigate him for getting trying to get me into trouble, he accused
me of being paranoid because he did not inform Mr Hooper of my userid or
persue the matter. This is a bit much since he did not include these facts
in his original post, thus I had no reason to know that I needn't get upset.

As for anti-Semitism, a frankly libellous charge which Sam has repeated.
Despite his insistance that he only uses the phrase with great care he has, as
of yet been unable to show any instance where I have said anything even
remotely anti-Semitic (unless he views anyone who is anti-kahane as
anti-semitic, absurd if this is the case). And has refused to even define
anti-Semitism. Indeed, some weeks ago, he claimed that Christians (Ross Perot)
who allegedly object to their daughter marrying a Jew are not anti-Semitic
but simply respect the Jewish ban on intermarriage.

All and all I find Saal intellectually dishonest and completely unable to
concede making any mistake, indeed, point out a mistake and he escalates his
attack. Hopefully, he has learned something about himself through all this
and will be more prudent in future, I certainly hope so.
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
From: shimoff@umbc4.umbc.edu (Eliot Shimoff)
Subject: Re: Hebrew origin of some English words
Organization: Univ. of MD, Baltimore County
Date: Thu, 5 Nov 1992 13:15:35 GMT

In article <9211031424.AA04415@helix.nih.gov> <norm@helix.nih.gov> writes:
>>In article <1d443bINNef2@agate.berkeley.edu> rice@enterprise.Berkeley.EDU (Daniel S. Rice) writes:
>>>In article <emc.720724980@tomalak> emc@doe.carleton.ca (Eli Chiprout) writes:
>>>>In <1d1ne1INNbt5@morrow.stanford.edu> aliki@nova1.stanford.edu
>>>(Alexandra Schmidt) writes:
>>>>>How about "l'hitbasess", to be based on?
>>>>That last one is directly from English,
>>>
>>>	From Greek, actually.  The word ``basis'' is atrributed in the
>>>Talmud.  In its modern form, it has expanded to take on most of the same
>>>meanings as the English words ``base''  or ``basis'' such as a military
>>>base, a base chemical, a historical basis, etc.  All of this info comes
>>>straight from Even-Shoshan.  Forms such as ``l'hitbasess'' are straight-
>>>forward extensions of the original word.
>>>	Look this stuff up before you post, folks!
>>>
>>>						Dan
>>
>>FANTASTI!  B'CHLAL FANTASTI!


>Why are you posting at 3 in the morning?

Hashkama posting?  (Actually, it was posted at some more reasonable
time, but worked its way through the net at 3 am.)



-- 
Eliot Shimoff                  |    n   n   n
   shimoff@umbc3.umbc.edu      |   X + Y = Z .  Easy to prove no solutions
Ashamnu, bagadnu, gazalnu ...  |   for n greater than 2.  Darn.  Can't fit
Better luck next year!         |   it into this little .sig file.  Oh well.
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
From: jgoldber@todah.chem.utoronto.ca (Joel Goldberg)
Subject: Re: Noachide marriage procedure.
Organization: University of Toronto Chemistry Department
Date: Thu, 5 Nov 1992 16:40:07 GMT

In article <1992Nov5.054307.1789@lugb.latrobe.edu.au> EXTDSM@LURE.LATROBE.EDU.AU (MADDISON,David) writes:
>            I think that the same criteria for marriage apply to both Jewish
>marriages and Noachide ones, i.e. giving of something of value with intent to
>marry, consumation, and (I think) signing of some form of marriage contract.
  There is no obligation of kiddushin for non-Jews according to Judaism.
From: hrubin@pop.stat.purdue.edu (Herman Rubin)
Subject: Re: Conversion Question
Organization: Purdue University Statistics Department
Date: Tue, 10 Nov 1992 20:58:29 GMT

In article <1992Nov10.200405.16219@umbc3.umbc.edu> shimoff@umbc4.umbc.edu (Eliot Shimoff) writes:

			....................

>But I remain confused about why a Conservative rabbi would accept a
>Reform coversion.  First, it seems likely that Reform rabbis would not
>meet [Orthodox] halakhic requirements for a bet din; at the  very least,
>they (the rabbis) are likely to be public desecrators of Shabbat.  Wouldn't
>that disqualify them from serving on a Conservative-acceptable bet din?
>And doesn't the Conservative halakha demand sincere acceptance of
>halakha, again presumably absent in a Reform  conversion?

There can be no reconciliation until the O and C accept that the R follow
their version of halakhah.  Serious Reform Jews take Shabbat very seriously,
but their interpretation of what is work differs.
-- 
Herman Rubin, Dept. of Statistics, Purdue Univ., West Lafayette IN47907-1399
Phone: (317)494-6054
hrubin@snap.stat.purdue.edu (Internet, bitnet)  
{purdue,pur-ee}!snap.stat!hrubin(UUCP)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
From: horen@netcom.com (Jonathan Horen)
Subject: Re: If I could read only one book on Judaism, what would it be?
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services  (408 241-9760 guest) 
Date: Thu, 12 Nov 1992 17:16:27 GMT

In article <40857@sdcc12.ucsd.edu> ph600fcy@sdcc14.ucsd.edu (Matthew Harrington) writes:

>Let's say that I'm a Martian and am assigned to learn all about
>Judiasm in one week.  What book do you suggest I read?  It has been
>recpmmended to me that I read "Jewish Literacy" by Telushkin, I
>believe.  What do you all think?

I disagree. That is, don't read someone else's opinions "about" Judaism,
read Judaism itself -- read the Torah (the "Old Testament").

The Torah *is* Judaism. Read it, see what interests you, and form your own
opinions. *Then* read what someone else has to say about it.

Just my $0.02


horen@netcom.com

Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
From: seth@inst-sun1.tmc.edu (Seth Chazanoff)
Subject: Re: Welcome to s.c.j.
Organization: Jet Propulsion Laboratory, Pasadena, CA, USA
Date: Wed, 11 Nov 1992 22:05:23 GMT

Richard

Re: The current OCR "Flame Fest", and the guys on the other side of the arguement are the enemy ...

	With all due respect, the guys on the other side of the arguement are our friends and family.  If you can't scream, yell, and swear at your friends and family (who understand, and love you), who can you scream, yell and swear at?<G>




					Seth
From: aplebaum@irs01.cs.huji.ac.il (Hillel Applebaum)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
Subject: Re: sexism
Date: 8 Nov 92 10:58:13 GMT
Organization: The Hebrew U. of Jerusalem, Computer Science Dep.
NNTP-Posting-Host: irs01.cs.huji.ac.il

In article <GJSSBPF6@cc.swarthmore.edu>, mwertz1@cc.swarthmore.edu (Melanie Wertz) writes:
|> No one has answered my questions yet.  Why is it that MEN are not barred
|> from appearing provocative to women?  WOMEN EXPERIENCE ATTRACTION TOO!

1. As a teacher in a boys school here I tell you that we don't allow
   our young studets to dress immodestly.
2. Why there are less cases of women raping man then vs. ? I think that man
    are less human and more animallike then women :-) ? :-( ?
-- 

-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*--*-*-*-*-*-*-*-
/ Hillel P. Applebaum  |> ISRAEL - where all
/ Jerusalem,   Israel  |  jews should live !
-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*--*-*-*-*-*-*-*-
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
From: lerner@cs.columbia.edu (Michah Lerner)
Subject: Re: WARNING: Sam Saal coercion
Organization: Columbia University Department of Computer Science
	<92311.1600102893684@QUCDN.QueensU.CA>
	<goldberg.721325500@techunix.technion.ac.il>
Date: Mon, 9 Nov 1992 19:10:12 GMT

In article <gold
->they inform him that if he persists in his activity, he will be reported on.
e
-    I am fond of what Sam writes. Therefore I suggest that if anyone else is
- being pleased as I am by Sam they inform him that if he dares stop his 
- activity, he will be reported on.
-    I can't speak for Sam, but I personally feel much more frightened by the
- WorldMaster than by postmasters, by the way.

  Sam?  Sam I Am?  Reporting? I do not like it!  I do not like it, andnd I dnot
like green eggs and ham.  I do not like it sam I am.  Would I like it in a cart
no I would not like it in a cart.  I do not reporting on, Sam I am.
--
/M
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
From: jgoldber@todah.chem.utoronto.ca (Joel Goldberg)
Subject: Re: Kosher Honey - Still no answer
Organization: University of Toronto Chemistry Department
Date: Tue, 10 Nov 1992 15:08:33 GMT

In article <1992Nov10.050529.13117@eskimo.celestial.com> chips@eskimo.celestial.com (:crp:) writes:
>And PLEASE!, the bible only talks about DATE honey !
  While this is true of much of biblical honey, isn't the honey in
  Samson's (Shimshon's) dead lion bee honey?
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
From: mandel@litp.ibp.fr (Arnaldo MANDEL)
Subject: Re: Kosher & Jewish Holidays (2 different subjects)
Organization: Chaos
	<1992Nov5.152621.2481@porthos.cc.bellcore.com>
	<MANDEL.92Nov6181009@litp4.ibp.fr>
	<1992Nov9.133705.22504@umbc3.umbc.edu>
Date: Tue, 10 Nov 1992 09:56:18 GMT
Full-Name: Arnaldo MANDEL

In article <1992Nov9.133705.22504@umbc3.umbc.edu> shimoff@umbc5.umbc.edu (Eliot Shimoff) writes:

>In article <MANDEL.92Nov6181009@litp4.ibp.fr> mandel@litp.ibp.fr (Arnaldo MANDEL) writes:
>>In article <1992Nov5.152621.2481@porthos.cc.bellcore.com> lise@kepler.uucp (80734-romanov) writes:
[...]
>>>    My understanding is that congregational rabbis are not paid per se for
>>>    holiday and Shabbat services.  They are compensated because the preparation
>>>    (ongoing) required for services combined with constant service to the
>>>    community restricts them from making a living otherwise.   
>>

>>Typical make believe hypocrisy of the kind that makes more and more people
>>lose all respect for institutional religion.  Orthodox Judaism is certainly
>>full of this (starting, perhaps, with the "shabbes goy" of old).

>Oh.  In other words, before learning about the shabbes goy and Hillel
>directors, you had respect for institutional religion?

No, I lost respect much earlier, while I was still a child in Jewish school,
and by the time I started to think with my own mind and to question the
thruths handed over from heaven.  However, as my parents so required, I
finished it, with excelent marks on all Jewish subjects.  So, when I learned
of all these loopholes the halacha seem to allow in following some precepts, I
just added these to my gripe bucket.  As simple as that.  The posting was just
a gut reaction to a topic which usually gets on me.

>Also, try checking both the definition of hypocrisy and the halakhic 
>system before making such broad accusations.  Your ignorance is
>appalling.

While I do not profess to be deeply knowleadgeble on halacha (there are so
many more subjects of higher priority to learn first), I have had very good
schooling, and occasional reading on it.  I stand by what I say, except that I
may be wrong in overemphasizing "hypocrisy" as a reason for people to lose
respect for religion.  There are lots of other reasons, equally as good, and I
do not have any data which allows me to make such assertion with any assurance.

--
............................................................
Arnaldo Mandel   ---  am@ime.usp.br
Temporarily: mandel@litp.ibp.fr
From: bc744@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Mark Ira Kaufman)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
Subject: Re: Einstein and Judaism
Date: 9 Nov 1992 20:36:00 GMT
Organization: Case Western Reserve University, Cleveland, Ohio (USA)
NNTP-Posting-Host: slc5.ins.cwru.edu


   Eli, you ask some very complicated questions!  I think that so
much of what people see in life is self-fulfilling prophecy.  The
fact that I am beginning to find a spiritual Judaism is due to an
eagerness to find it.  When I read the Einstein essay, I got this
vague idea that Einstein's vision of G-d was that of a demanding,
cruel, and vindictive G-d.  I don't think that he saw the way the
Jewish people were guided by G-d into being moral beings.  If G-d
asked Abraham to kill his son, Einstein seemed to take this event
at face value.  And even though Abraham did not have to carry out
this act, Einstein seemed to see nothing but cruelty in this test
of Abraham.
   Possibly because of the power that Einstein saw G-d using, and
because of the Holocaust, he may have taken a dim view of G-d.  I
must say that this is all speculation.  I would very much like to
get you to read this brief work, and share your thoughts on these
views of Einstein.  
   I should also mention that, although the Holocaust has touched
me just as it has every Jew, and although I lost relatives, I did
not live during WWII.  I believe that Holocaust contemporaries in
general will have had a completely different response to it.
-- 
   "One can be a racist.  Or one can be a human being.  But one
may not be both."
                                 - Rabbi Abraham Joshua heschel

Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
From: er@iscp.Bellcore.COM (Elie Rosenfeld)
Subject: Re: Prayer shawls
Reply-To: er@iscp.Bellcore.COM (Elie Rosenfeld)
Organization: Bell Communications Research (Bellcore)
Date: Wed, 11 Nov 92 18:08:47 GMT

In article <9211102318.AA05344@host0.COLBY.EDU>, jjsulliv@COLBY.EDU (Nice Young Lady(tm)) writes:
|> 
|> I've even seen one with BLACK stripes 
        ^^^^
"Even"???  About 90% of all tallaisim in most shuls I've been to have black
stripes.  Are there shuls/minhagim where the prevalent custom is other than 
black stripes?  Which ones?  (I'm just curious.)
-- 
Elie Rosenfeld      | "I am what I am, Leila -- and if there are self-made
Bellcore            |  purgatories, then we all must live in them.
Piscataway, N.J.    |  Mine is no worse than someone else's."
(908) 699-8800      |                     - Spock, "This Side of Paradise"
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
From: solovay@netcom.com (Andrew M. Solovay)
Subject: Re: If I could read only one book on Judaism, what would it be?
Organization: International Irony League -- Death before smileys!
Date: Thu, 12 Nov 1992 18:45:46 GMT

In article <40857@sdcc12.ucsd.edu> ph600fcy@sdcc14.ucsd.edu (Matthew Harrington) writes:
>Let's say that I'm a Martian and am assigned to learn all about
>Judiasm in one week.  What book do you suggest I read?  It has been
>recpmmended to me that I read "Jewish Literacy" by Telushkin, I
>believe.  What do you all think?

For a general introduction to Jewish custom & practice, I'd
recommend "To Be a Jew" by R. Donin.
-- 
Andrew Michael Solovay    

"We know that Solovay is a misogynist an an idiot..."
		--Melinda Shore
From: jim@netlink.cts.com (Jim Bowery)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
Subject: MOTT?
Date: 11 Nov 92 16:17:34 GMT
Article-I.D.: netlink.ZR23TB2w165w
Organization: NetLink Online Communications, San Diego CA

What does "MOTT" stand for/mean?

--                    
INTERNET:  jim@netlink.cts.com (Jim Bowery)
UUCP:   ...!ryptyde!netlink!jim
NetLink Online Communications * Public Access in San Diego, CA (619) 453-1115
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
From: makowsky@enuxva.eas.asu.edu (David Makowsky)
Subject: Re: Why I think Kach's policies are racist (AND DANGEROUS)
Organization: Arizona State University
Date: Fri, 13 Nov 1992 19:44:19 GMT

In article <1992Nov11.024447.18923@alchemy.chem.utoronto.ca>, jgoldber@todah.chem.utoronto.ca (Joel Goldberg) writes:

# In article <dfs.721447233@ro# dfs@doe.carleton.ca (David F. Skoll) writes:

# >Furthermore, the policies of Kach, if carried out, would have the
# >following consequences - I assure you that they are easily predicted:

# >1 - Most of the world would cut diplomatic and economic ties with
# #    Israel.

# >2 - Israel would suffer the same fate as Yugoslavia - economic
# #    sanctions and expulsion from the U.N.

# >3 - The Arab nations would unite as never before, posing a grave
# #    threat to Israel's existence.

# >4 - The internal divisions among Israeli Jews would reach the
# #    boiling point.

# >So you see, that even if you don't think Kach's policies are racist,
# >they should be fought simply because of the terrible danger they pose
# >to Israel and the Jewish people.

#    Ah, but David, God is on our side! We can force God to cause the
#    world to work differently from the way it would "naturally." In
#    short, we force God to perform miracles for us.

	What you do not seem to realize is that the "natural" workings
of the world are going to lead it to do things that will be worse than
whatever will happen if Kach's policies are adopted.

#    And of course, this is precisely where the late R. Kahane's plan
#    of action is in fact completely *un*Jewish. We don't force God's
#    hand and we don't demand miracles of him. (Shmuel 1, Chps. 4-6)

	That is not the point, although G-d has made certain promises
that if X happens he will do Y.  Unless you are willing to call G-d a
liar, we can force Y by seeing to it that X occurs.
From: bdm@cs.anu.edu.au (Brendan McKay)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
Subject: Re: How to destroy a population
Date: 6 Nov 92 06:44:18 GMT
Reply-To: bdm@cs.anu.edu.au
Organization: Australian National University
NNTP-Posting-Host: 150.203.23.70


In article <dfs.720976414@crusher>, David Skoll writes:
>I just want to take issue with one point that Brendan makes:

>In <1d8bcpINNper@tyl.anu.edu.au> bdm@cs.anu.edu.au (Brendan McKay) writes:

>>Your first sentence is illogical.  It is easier to destroy a
>>dispersed (thus weak) population than a concentrated one.

>I don't agree.  It has been the policy of those wishing to destroy
>populations to concentrate them in ghettos first.  We saw this with
>the Nazis, and we see it now in Bosnia, as ethnic "cleansing"
>concentrates minorities in a few small centers.

I can't argue with your first example, and won't argue with the second.
However, there is an awfully big difference between concentrating a 
largely powerless (in military terms) population in a ghetto and enriching 
the population of a nation state with a proven army.

I really can't agree with Seth's idea that Iraq tried to weaken Israel
by allowing its Jews to leave.  (It did have plenty of other reasons,
though.)  Amongst other things, they didn't expect more than a few
tens of thousands to take the opportunity (general agreement between
sources).  One thing that nobody mentioned yet is that Iraq originally
proposed a 1-1 swap for displaced Palestinians, but this deal fell
through due to opposition from the Arab League and the Palestinian
leadership.  (Syria made an offer like that too; I forget the details.)

Brendan.
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish