HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: mykes@amiga0.SF-Bay.ORG (Mike Schwartz)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
Subject: Re: 040 and 486_ (bunch O' Kaka anyway)
Distribution: world
X-NewsSoftware: Amiga GRn V1.29 4/10/92 (Beta) by Mike Schwartz
Date: 17 Apr 92 11:16:12 PST
Organization: Amiga makes it possible

In article <1992Apr16.214839.16965@ctr.columbia.edu> jerry@connection.prospect.com (Jerry Shekhel) writes:
>har@ux.acs.umn.edu (--SeebS--) writes:
>>>Let's stick to the facts, and leave speculation aside.  GNU C is obviously
>>>not *optimized* for either architecture, and yet it seems to produce excellent
>>>code on both.  I just can't think of a test that would be any more fair.
>>
>>I know! Let's throw an 80486 and a 68040 in the ocean. Whichever one floats
>>is a witch.
>>
>
>This from the dude who blasts my .sig for being irrelevant.
>

What were you asking about arrogance?

>>
>>>MIPS are meaningless because the 486 and 040 have different instruction sets.
>>
>>Yuppers. The 68040 instruction set is cleaner, so 1 68040 mip ~= 1.2 80486
>>mips. (Note that mip is not a proper unplural, but it's the most idiomatic
>>word...) Thus, we really have:
>>
>>25 Mhz 486 = 15 MIPS
>>25 Mhz 040 = 24 MIPS
>>
>
>Peter, do you actually believe your BS, or do you just use it for harrassment?
>

Sorry you can't accept facts when they are presented to you.  Denial and
contradiction is all you crave.

You are a walking advertisement for kill-files in a newsreader.  Looks like
I will have to implement that feature into GRn.  Not only will it kill articles
by you, it will kill articles with your name anywhere in it.  Can't wait.

--
Author of Amiga GRn, MailMinder, Budokan, Beyond Dark Castle, Dark Castle,
and Genesis Dick Tracy and Marble Madness.
Mike Schwartz  (ames!zorch!amiga0!mykes or mykes@amiga0.sf-bay.org)
1124 Fremont Ave.
Los Altos, CA 94024
From: TomK@cup.portal.com (Tom R Krotchko)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
Subject: Re: New Amigas Announced!!!
Date: Mon, 13 Apr 92 19:10:15 PDT
Organization: The Portal System (TM)
  <1992Apr11.201139.1@kean.ucs.mun.ca>

There are good US beers. A personal favorite is the Yuengling brewery in
Pottsville, PA. Besides their excellent lager and porter, they produce
Lord Chesterfield ale. Also excellent.

For you history buffs, it is America's oldest brewery (that's still going).
From: Paula_Lieberman@amicol.UUCP (Paula Lieberman)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
Subject: Re: Mac OS just sucks -- "ease of use" = "lack of freedom" ?
Date: 8 Apr 92 14:48:31 GMT
Organization: Amiga Colony BBS

re article by Dan Johnson:  The Amiga chipset offloads stuff like pushing
pixels around on the screen from the 68xxx engine -- it's a piece of
inanity in my opinion that Apple has machines using the 680x0 pushing
screen pixels -- what a waste of a high power microprocessor, hand it off
to something else to instead of wasting a 68xxx cycle doing something a
much stupider chip can handle, and let the 68xxx do things that need a
68xxx, instead of using a Ferrari to take the garbage to the dump......


-- Via DLG Pro v0.991
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
From: pswanson@phoenix.Princeton.EDU (Paul Swanson)
Subject: Word vs. TeX (Was Re:  Mac OS just sucks -- "ease of use" = "lack of freedom")
Originator: news@ernie.Princeton.EDU
Organization: Princeton University
Date: Tue, 14 Apr 1992 14:10:18 GMT

In article <1992Apr13.151251.21255@ms.uky.edu> justin@graphlab.cc.uky.edu  (Justin Sullivan) writes:
>
>The full extent of WHAT ignorance? 
Well, first of all ignorance of how rabid some TeX users are in support
of TeX.  I'm not sure I buy all of the argument but the main points are
first, that TeX is Turing complete.  Meaning that you can program it to
do just about anything.  You could write a finite element package in TeX
if you wanted to (but I wouldn't recommend it).  Second, and most
important, WYSIWYG leads to poor document formatting.  Some may think
that the ability to easily change the layout is a good thing.  A true
TeX user believes that most people shouldn't be ALLOWED to format
documents.  By the time you are qualified to format a document the
intricacies of TeX will be know to you.  Everybody else should use a
formatting style written by a professional.  The ability to format a
document on your own is a minus in terms of general readability.

>Have you used Word 5 (yet?) It is much  
>better suited to scientific/technical applications then Word 4.   
Yes I have used Word 5.  I use Word extensively here because I have to
due to the fact that my boss likes it.  My previous boss liked it too.
In fact, you could say that Word is THE word processor used in chemical
engineering (my field of work).  I agree that it is much better than
Word 4.0 (except that they still haven't sped up the spell checker yet;
it is painfully slow.)  However, the point is not if Word is improving
but if it is better than TeX.  So far it is not, at least for the
documents that I write.  And most importantly, it is not any easier to
learn how to use at the level I need.  Also, once you figure it out, TeX
is in many ways faster to use than Word.

I guess the thing that bugs me most about Word is that with each
revision it incorporates more of TeX or the TeX way of doing things.
Why not get to the end result and use TeX?  This is particularly
relevant since TeX is free.  In fact I believe there is a nice PD TeX
implementation for the Mac although I personally have not used it.
Document preparation would be far better off if programers concentrated
on writing a good GUI front end for TeX rather than reinvent everything
that TeX already does well.  

>Incidentally, how does this relate to the differences between the Mac and the  
>Amiga? 
Ah yes, the gist of the matter.  Arguements favoring the Mac over the
Amiga based on Word Processors are meaningless because no word processor
gives you the price - performance ratio that TeX does and there is no
document formatting task that can't be done in TeX.  Since both the
Amiga and Mac have TeX on them they are even as far as document
preparation goes.

Paul.
From: dtiberio@csws17.ic.sunysb.edu (David Tiberio)
Subject: Re: Amax on a 3000 questions...
Organization: State University of New York at Stony Brook
Date: Mon, 13 Apr 1992 14:26:56 GMT

In article <1992Apr13.165107.1@cc.curtin.edu.au> tlynchhuw@cc.curtin.edu.au writes:
>does AMAX support color monitor emulation? If not will future releases and
>if so when will they come out?

	No, but there is a guy who says he is working on a color Mac
emulator.

>I've heard that the emulation on a stock 500 gives the same performance as 
>a MAC SE, is this correct? How fast is a 25Mhz A3000 (ie faster than a Mac II
>fx or what)?

	The A3000 is a little faster.

>Does AMAX run System 7?

	Some people claim it works for them, But Apple designed
System 7 not to work with the current AMAX.

>What mac programs will AMAX not run?

	Pentominoes. But then again it didn't run on my friend's Mac.

>How much ram would an amiga need to give the mac emulation about 3 meg of
>free ram?

	AMAX is about 50k or so. Very little ram is used.
>
>How legal is AMAX? I hear you need Mac ROM's which may be legal or the ROMS
>on disk which I'm sure isn't.

	It is legal as long as you don't get the roms on disk, copied
from someone else.

>
>What other things should I know before I go and do a deal that I haven't 
>mentioned above?

	Roms can be hard to find. And they can be expensive. But if you
go to an underground or unauthorized Mac dealer, or even an authorized
Mac dealer, ask for a rom. Sometimesthey will get them for about $10.
And that is definitely a good deal. If they cannot provide them, either
go to another dealer or ask another salesperson. If they need to make a sale,
they will


-- 
      //   David Tiberio  SUNY Stony Brook 2-3662  AMIGA  DDD-MEN   
     //  Not the llama! Come here Earl; I want to tell you something...
   \X/  Liverpool, New York	flames to suggestions@cbmvax.commodore.com
From: ajaffe@amiganet.chi.il.us (Adi Jaffe)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
Subject: Re:  Mac OS just sucks -- "ease of use" = "lack of freedom" ?
Date: 5 Apr 92 05:06:06 GMT
Organization: Amiga Network Information Systems

In article <1992Apr1.234629.18713@nic.unh.edu>, ggg@kepler.unh.edu (Gregory G
Greene) writes:
>> 
>> There are more like 5 million Amigas out there.
>> 
>> --
>> Rick Kelly		Rick's Amiga		Framingham, Mass.
>> 
>
>	I think it was Amiga World that just a few months ago said there were
>  3 million amiga's out there.  CBM is doing better then I thought, 2 million
>  machines sold in a few months.
>
>							G.Greene


There are about 3.5 million Amiga users worldwide.
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
From: dv@oahu.linus.mitre.org (Dimitri Vorona)
Subject: Re: Wild rumor, potential for massive sea change in Amiga world...
Organization: The MITRE Corporation
	<1992Apr15.011619.7706@news.iastate.edu>
	<1992Apr15.143822.9901@ra.msstate.edu>
	<1992Apr15.225616.22438@news.iastate.edu>
	<1992Apr16.155725.9650@ra.msstate.edu>
Date: Thu, 16 Apr 1992 19:17:55 GMT

My big theory about why Commodore lost ALOT of sales and market back
in 85' is the fact that they were in direct competition with the ATARI
ST computer.  I remember when I sold my 64 and was ready to buy a new
machine, I saw many of my friends buy into the ST...

ATARI took away much of Commodores sales in the way of the ST.  If the
ST didn't exist and the choices were AT's, Apple II's, and Amigas,
guess who would have won?

---
"The reason grandparents and grandchildren get along so well is that they
 have a common enemy."	-Sam Levenson


     		~	     ~	 ~    __@	Dimitri Vorona
  			~	~   _`\<,_ 	MITRE Corporation
	~		  ~	~  (#)/ (#)	Command Systems Development
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^							
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
From: mrz50957@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (SEQUENT V2.0)
Subject: Re: AppleEvents, how to they work?
Organization: University of Illinois at Urbana
Date: Wed, 8 Apr 1992 14:19:06 GMT

Lee_Robert_Willis@cup.portal.com writes:

>From the Amiga User Interface Style Guide:

>   "Each ARexx port must have a unique name and must be in
>   upper-case.  In AREexx, a port name is derived from:

>      <basename>.<slot #>
>   ...

Unless the application is good enough to recognize AREXX and adjust itself
accordingly.  New Horizon's ProWrite 3.2 no longer requires a port name to be
defined in the AREXX script, but assumes that the first loaded copy of
ProWrite is port 1, and takes all AREXX scripts run from that copy as going
to port 1.  
-- 
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
| Matthew R. Zeier                 __  | "Be content, then, in everything;  |
| University of Illinois,         / /  |  and if you wish to seem so        |
|   Urbana-Champaign         __  / /   |  likewise to anyone, appear so to  |
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
From: justin@graphlab.cc.uky.edu  (Justin Sullivan)
Subject: Re: Mac OS just sucks -- "ease of use" = "lack of freedom" ?
Organization: University Of Kentucky, Dept. of Math Sciences
Date: Wed, 8 Apr 1992 20:37:45 GMT
X-Bytes: 

David Vandeven writes
> Ever heard of MAcMach? It's supposed to be a lot better that A/UX.. I haven't
> seen it, but I hear it's a good thing..  I am somewhat jealous of Amosphiles
> running SCO V. Oh, well. That's balanced out by the fact that most Amiga
> owners seem to develop Virtual Intelligence ;)  

Uh huh.. and OS/2 v1.x  was supposed to be the best thing ever to hit a PC..
(OS/2 2.0 may be, BUT..) You're right though.. Amiga users do have VIRTUAL  
intelligence.. It's not really there! :)
At any rate, MacMach is not nearly as nice as A/UX. No Mac programs, no  
Commando interface, etc..
--
*******************************************************************************
* "Imagine sky.. High above, in Caribbean Blue.." <sigh>                      *
* The University of Kentucky doesn't pay well enough to share my opinions.    *
*******************************************************************************
From: root@rkamiga.UUCP (Rick Kelly)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
Subject: Re:    C= policy (Re: Apple problems "Home computer")
Distribution: world
Date: 13 Apr 92 08:29:40 EST
Organization: Rick's Amiga

In article <1992Apr12.140042.1766@nic.unh.edu> pss1@kepler.unh.edu (Paul S Secinaro) writes:
>In article <root.01df@rkamiga.UUCP> root@rkamiga.UUCP (Rick Kelly) writes:
>>The bottom end of the PC market is so low now, that quality assurance is
>>starting to suffer.  There are 386/486 pc clones being sold that can't run
>>in protected mode due to timing and other problems.  The boards are being
>>designed and slapped into systems as fast as they can make them.  The
>>result is very cheap boxes that can run MSDOS, and that's it.  They are
>>being sold at such a low margin, and there are so many companies trying
>>to undercut each other, that there will soon be a point where small clone
>>companies will start dropping like flies.  The prices will ease back up
>>to the DELL or Gateway level.

>That's fine with me.  Gateway-level prices are quite good.

>I wouldn't class Gateway with Dell, BTW.  Dell is what I'd call a
>"premium" dealer, and they price accordingly.  Gateway is much
>cheaper, but still has good quality (though they're by no means
>perfect).  You can get a Gateway 486-33 ISA with ATI Ultra graphics
>accelerator, 8MB RAM, 210 MB IDE, etc. etc., for about $2800.  Similar
>deals are available from other vendors.  A similar system from Dell
>would probably be in the $4k-$5k range, but you will probably get
>better support, possibly better quality, etc.

True.  Dell isn't cutting prices like they used to.  They used to be
king of the mail order pc business, but they are doing well competing
against the top end now.

>As for the ultra-cheap cloners, yes...they come and go with great
>frequency.  I'd stay away from them, but they aren't your only choice.

Unfortunately, a lot of the Amiga price comparisons in c.s.a.a are made 
against these shakey bottom of the heap machines.  I have seen a lot of
cheap hardware that would run MSDOS, but would fail when attempting to 
run in 32 bit protected mode.  And I have seen cheap hardware that failed
after only a short time.

>>An Intel box that can only run MSDOS would be of little use to me, as
>>I don't use MSDOS.
>
>Well, it will probably run Windoze also (big whoopee! :-) :-)

Right. :-)

--
Rick Kelly		Rick's Amiga		Framingham, Mass.

		think!unixland!rmkhome!rkamiga!root
From: Paula_Lieberman@amicol.UUCP (Paula Lieberman)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
Subject: Re: New Commodore Computers
Date: 6 Apr 92 10:10:09 GMT
Organization: Amiga Colony BBS

An acquaintance who's a consultant who puts together database systems for
clients, and whose office equipment at present includes a Quadra 700 that
he replaced the drive and controller in to improve the performance in
[faster controller, larger and faster drive], and a '486, said he
researched the cost of doing video on Mac versus video on Amiga for
someone, and it was literally half the cost to get an Amiga with a Video
Toaster than to get a Mac with framegrabber and video output suitable for
cable TV which did less and had worse image quality than an Amiga/Toaster
combination..... 


-- Via DLG Pro v0.991
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
From: dac@dacami.UUCP (David Culberson)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy,comp.sys.amiga.games,comp.sys.amiga.misc,comp.sys.amiga.multimedia,comp.sys.amiga.graphics,comp.sys.amiga.hardware
Subject: Re:  Considering switching to IBM
Distribution: world
Date: 10 Apr 92 23:33:24 EST
Organization: My home system.

In article <1992Apr6.221833.19914@ctr.columbia.edu> jerry@connection.prospect.com (Jerry Shekhel) writes:

>>However, now that you've brought it up, you can't use several programs
>>that run in V8086 mode together.
>>
>
>Then I guess my multitasking of 5 DOS apps, each running in V86 mode (under
>OS/2 2.0), is just an illusion?

  You took his post ouut of context.  Not a wise move.  He said  "...you
can't use several programs that run in V8086 mode together."  What he
meant was there aare *some* programs that will not run together in V8086
modes.  Not that you can't run more than one program together under V8086
mode.

>I wish I had a nickel for every time I've seen an Amiga user scream,
>"I *hate* these games that take over the machine!".

  Games require a *lot* of processing power.  They use every feature of 
the computer, most of the time.  Ever try to multitask, say, a terminal
program and, say, Gunship under your beloved OS/2 2.0?

		-David

--
( dac@dacami.UUCP - cis.ohio-state.edu!n8emr!bluemoon!dacami!dac ) Amiga//
( - David Culberson v1.0; 1.2 due out any time now. - )               \X/
From: Paula_Lieberman@amicol.UUCP (Paula Lieberman)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
Subject: Unfair Bad Press
Date: 6 Apr 92 10:01:33 GMT
Organization: Amiga Colony BBS

Someone who works at a Software, Etc. store told me "I HATE Amigas."  Why?
"-Because the programmers write direct to the hardware and half the time
the ganes don't work on the customers' machines."  I tried to tell him
that's the Eurogames programmers' fault, and he pointed at Sierra....  I
still feel that
it's an unfair slam to blame the machine for what loose cannon
hardware-bangers do.....


-- Via DLG Pro v0.991
From: marcus@sun.pcl.ac.uk (Marcus Harvey)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
Subject: Re: Commodore R&D Drops Almost 25%
Date: 7 Apr 92 16:57:38 GMT
Organization: Polytechnic of Central London

In article <1992Apr4.212106.18693@zorch.SF-Bay.ORG> mike@zorch.SF-Bay.ORG (Mike Smithwick) writes:
>In article <kdarling.701884015@garfield.catt.ncsu.edu> kdarling@garfield.catt.ncsu.edu (Kevin Darling) writes:
>>
>>You're both right.  I believe the company name was Amiga Computer, Inc.
>>But to gain name recognition in the game arena, they bought and marketed
>>some things such as the Joyboard.
>>
>>kev <kdarling@catt.ncsu.edu>
>
>Actually, the original name was "HiTorro" (sp?) which came from a 
>Japanese game in the same way the term "Atari" did (I believe that
>Atari was the equivalent to "check" in Go and Hi-torro was the same
>as checkmate, I'm not a Go person, so don't quote me on this). Anyway it
>was changed to Amiga after a couple of months. Amiga was supposedly derived
>from "Amica" or "Amicabilis" which is Latin for "friendly" or "peaceable".
>
The word "amiga" is Spanish for "female friend". They must have known this.

So we have Girlfriend Computer Inc., Girlfriend500, Only Girlfriend Makes it
Possible etc...

Marcus Harvey
marcus@uk.ac.pcl.sun - JANET
marcus%sun.pcl.ac.uk@ukacrl - BITNET/EARN

                                                          ...Bubble Up!
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
From: cstuckless@kean.ucs.mun.ca
Subject: Re: New Amigas Announced!!! 
Organization: Memorial University. St.John's Nfld, Canada
Date: Sat, 11 Apr 1992 22:41:39 GMT

In article <1992Apr11.021254.13318@ra.msstate.edu>, skip@tacky.cs.olemiss.edu (Skip 'AdaX' Sauls) writes:
> Okay, now that I have your attention, I would like to know what brands of 
> beer are the favorites among comp.sys.amiga.advocacy readers.  Over the 
[Stuff Deleted]

> This may seem like an odd topic, but it is about as relevant to the Amiga
> as some of the other stuff discussed here.  Personally, I would rather 
  ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
  You got that right Skip. And a lot of it has been pooring over into 
the other comp.amiga groups lately. But anyway...
  
> have a pint of bitter from a British pub than any other beer, but in this
> hick state I would be lucky to find anything remotely British.  As a 
  
  The clean, crisp waters (Just like in the commercials :) here in 
Newfoundland make for a dandy brew. My favorite brand is Molson 
Canadian, although I often go for some of the smaller brands which are 
unique to Newfoundland - the commerials they have on local radio are 
hilarious. Go to any bar and you're guaranteed to hear someone 
repeating the latest one. Beer Drinking is almost like a sport here 
where I live. All you beer lovers should really come up for a visit 
(especially you Dave, I'll even pay your Hotel fare if you bring me 
one of those 128 Meg Ram boards you seem to have 'lying around' :)

> imports.  My favorite American beer is Coors Light, followed by Miller 
> Genuine Draft Light, Bud Light, and Miller Light.
  
  Sorry Skip, but the American beers really don't compare, maybe we 
need to start a alt.beer.advocacy :)

> I hope no one gets too pissed off by this post, but if you are, why don't
> you grab a cold one, get a little buzz, and enjoy life a bit.  :-)
> 
> Skip Sauls                     //    Graduate Student & Instructor & Beer Lover
> skip@tacky.cs.olemiss.edu    \X/     CS Department, University of Mississippi 
-- 
  
Colin Stuckless          \  The bottleneck for every computer 
FutureVision Ltd          \  platform is the mind's ability to invent 
CStuckless@kean.ucs.mun.ca \  creative new applications for the system 
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
From: nap42487@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (Nishith A. Patel)
Subject: Re: 040 and 486 and nap42487 knows nothing about CPUs.
Organization: University of Illinois at Urbana
Date: Sun, 12 Apr 1992 23:57:51 GMT

I'll tell you wy the benchmarks are accurate. One,you seem to know exactly
what my FP benchmarks do. Why don't you send me a copy of the source code
and we ca look at them and find out that they are not FP tests at all, just
integer tests. The Microprocessor report just does not know the difference
between integer and FP, and just randomly grouped some under integer
(yes, that is integer, i-n-t-e-g-e-r) and some under FP. (F-P). The world
is lucky we have you here as no one else can determine what tests do what,
probably not even the people who made them.

Those benchmarks were not published by IBM or something, they were from the
microprocessor report trying to compare CPUs.

You posted some benchmarks using I/O. Gee, you don't think a workstation
will do better at I/O than a clone, do you? After all, clone makers
make sure they have the highest throghput and best graphics speed, disk 
access, etc so they can rival workstations. Not quite. As Jerry pointed out,
the Apollo has good compilers that are optimized for Dhrystone (This is a 
common thing to do with compilers, optimize them for the Dhrystone benchmark).
I can just as easily show you a 486 system beating an 040 on the Dhrystone
benchmark (I won't post any, as I do not remember the exact numbers for any
of them). Try a Dhrystone on an Amiga with 040 and a 486 using commonly used
compilers for both (say, Borland C++ or MS C 7.0 vs SAS- Sorry to break
your hearts, but BLAZEC doing infinte dhrystones is NOT available for the
Amiga, as many sadly believe).

And how about what I said earlier. About running tw similar apps on an
Amiga and 486? Someone posted some stupid shit earlier about using 
SUPERSUPERDUPERCAD on IBM vs. SUCKCAD on Amiga. That is not what I said.
I said, use AutoCAD 386 and ANY cad program on the Amiga. Then try a series
of tests. If anyone actually does this, don't post, unless you post every
test you did and did every test not knowing how each system might do on it.
I believe in fair benchmarks, impartially and taking account all of them.
Thesystems should be using the CPU only, with similar levels of things
like memory bottleneck (no 40 ns vs 120 ns). If the tests are true and
comprehensive, not just a few selected ones where the 040 is particularly
well suited, then benchmarks do give you a pretty good idea. Because
all people use computers for anyway is to run programs. Nobody runs anything
in theory, Jarkho).

Nish Patel  nap42487@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu
A