HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
Organization: Penn State University
Date: Fri, 14 Aug 1992 12:49:53 EDT
From: jim bowers <FQV@psuvm.psu.edu>
Newsgroups: rec.climbing
Subject: More info on Climbing Wall book and Petrogrips

Well, since I've been mildly diluged with requests for info on Petrogrips
and the climbing wall book I'd though I post some more info.

First, the address
                   Petrogrips
                   108 E. Cherry Lane
                   STate College PA, 16803

How to build Affordable Climbing Walls, 48 pages, $7.00 (Netland price)

MODULAR HOLDS

 Black Granite Holds - A dark, fine grained, very strong rock with good
climbing texture (lots of detail but not abrasive)

                           Sizes

Granite Micros ($3.00 each Netland Price) - small Krimper size holds with
  a fiberglass/epoxy coating on the back for strength.

Small Granite Buckets (3.25 each Netland Price) - 1/2 to 1 inch edges for 2
  or 3 fingers.  Back ground perfectly flat for strength.

Medium Granite Buckets ($4.25 each Netland Price) - large, often incut holds
  for overhanging walls.

Large Granite Buckets ($5.50 each Netland Price) - very large (heavy - 1-3 lbs)
   holds.
Newsgroups: rec.climbing
From: AS.MSW@forsythe.stanford.edu (Marc Whitney)
Subject: Re: Flashbulbs (was: Public Perceptions)
Organization: Stanford University, California, USA
Distribution: usa
Date: Fri, 14 Aug 1992 19:39:09 GMT

In article <1992Aug14.180917.1283@hpcvca.cv.hp.com>,
scott@hpcvccl.cv.hp.com (Scott Linn) writes:
>teshima@uhunix.uhcc.Hawaii.Edu (A. Lani Teshima) writes:
>:
>: If you would like to take panoramic photos on your hike, but feel
>: uneasy about using single-use cameras, I would suggest the RE-USABLE
>: panoramic cameras.
>
>What is reusable about these cameras?  Do you mean that you (personally/
>easily) can replace the film?
>
>Scott Linn
>scott@hpcvccl.cv.hp.com

It has been reported that the film developer ships the empties back
to Kodak which then either reloads them or salvages as many of the
parts as they can.
Newsgroups: rec.climbing
From: eugene@wilbur.nas.nasa.gov (Eugene N. Miya)
Subject: amazing week here in CA
Organization: NAS, NASA Ames Research Center, Moffett Field, CA
Date: Thu, 13 Aug 92 21:13:59 GMT

I guess something like five people have died climbing this week in
CA (well, one was a hang glider accident).  One died two days ago
next to my climb for the weekend.  SO it goes.

--eugene miya, NASA Ames Research Center, eugene@orville.nas.nasa.gov
  Resident Cynic, Rock of Ages Home for Retired Hackers
  {uunet,mailrus,other gateways}!ames!eugene
Second Favorite email message: Returned mail: Cannot send message for 3 days
A Ref: Mathematics and Plausible Reasoning, vol. 1, G. Polya
Newsgroups: rec.climbing
From: bruceb@roadrunner.denver.sgi.com (Bruce Bailey)
Subject: Re: Stupid quotes
Keywords: > Ilana> "Pull-up or shut up!">  Second on a climb   "Shut up and pull!"
Organization: Silicon Graphics, Inc.
Date: Wed, 12 Aug 1992 18:25:15 GMT

In article <1992Aug11.222743.7732@hellgate.utah.edu>, jrose@cs.utah.edu (John H. Rose) writes:
|> 
|>   Stupid Quote:  "You're doing good...as far as you know!"
|>                                                   __ Scott Roach to climbing
|>                                                      student ( Moab,92)
|> 

Dr. OW to hapless partner attempting to follow hideous pitch.

"Just do whatever feels good to you..."

              or

"You're really going to 'enjoy' this next section..."

Bruce Bailey (Dr. OW)
Newsgroups: rec.climbing
From: cptully@med.unc.edu (Christopher P. Tully,Pathology,62679)
Subject: Re: Cathedral Pk. Accident, Yosemite
Reply-To: cptully@med.unc.edu
Organization: UNC-CH School of Medicine
Date: Thu, 20 Aug 1992 14:39:10 GMT

In article 5045@gold.gvg.tek.com, jimd@pequod.gvg.tek.com (Jim Delwiche) writes:

[stuff on belay etc.]

>It would be a good thing if the new generation of climbers was taught
                                 ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>the body belay, if for no other reason than the chance of a dropped
 ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>belay appliance.  Since the arm motion in a catch is opposite that
>with a figure eight, (cross over the body instead of pull to the side
>and back,) it takes a little practice to become automatic.
>
>Another call by an old pharte for a return to the olde days...
>
>Jim D.

I was, last year...


---
*********************************************************************
Christopher P. Tully				<cptully@med.unc.edu>
Univ. of North Carolina - Chapel Hill		1122 Vic Charles Dr.
Department of Pathology				Raleigh, NC 27606
CB# 7525			work: (919) 966-2699
Chaple Hill, NC 27599		hone: (919) 851-8816
*********************************************************************
 All opinions above are Copywrite <current year> Christoper P. Tully
From: rogerl@Ingres.COM (Roger Leuthner)
Newsgroups: rec.climbing
Subject: hip belay
Date: 22 Aug 92 00:15:21 GMT
Reply-To: rogerl@Ingres.COM (Roger Leuthner)
Distribution: usa
Organization: Ask Computer Systems Inc., Ingres Division, Alameda CA 94501

>In article <1992Aug21.213427.6180@organpipe.uug.arizona.edu>,
>>IMHO, I think hip belays should go the way of Goldline ropes. Sure, they
>>were the safest thing going, but belay devices are in general much more
>>reliable. Quang-Tuan Luong is right: people should know how to hip belay,
>>just in case they have to, and I agree with Liz Bradley: a Munter hitch
>>is preferable to a hip belay. But, from some recent postings, I got the impression
>>that some people were still using hip belays as a matter of routine. I
>>think this is foolish.

I strongly disagree.  A proper hip belay can add dynamics to what might
be a static fall (the kernmantle rope will also add some) which could
pull pro.  The biggest problem with belay devices is that most completely
remove this dynamic (aside from 'munter hitch' (aka 'death hitch') rope
twisting problems).

I usually ask a belayer to use a device if on top rope or if I'm seconding.
For a lead, this added dynamic element could mean the difference between
an elastic rebound and pulled protection.

It may be wise to override this consideration if you are climbing with
an inexperienced partner, or a partner who is substantially 'less substantial'
(less strength or weight).  I'll also usually forgo the hip belay if the route
is stoutly bolted.
Newsgroups: rec.climbing
From: allen%asylum.cs.utah.edu@cs.utah.edu (Allen Sanderson)
Subject: Re: emergency techniques
Date: 20 Aug 92 13:08:17 MDT
Organization: University of Utah CS Dept

>(Quang-Tuan Luong) writes:
>
>   |> new climbers should be taught all the traditional techniques that were 
>   |> developed before modern technology made our lives so much easier. 
>
>   I agree entirely.
>
> lizb@altdorf.ai.mit.edu writes:
>Yes.  And speaking of which, the munter hitch - which I would always
>choose over a hip belay - has been significantly absent from this
>thread of discussion.  Any comments about the relative merits of these
>two techniques?


I like the munter hitch because it is quick, unfortunately I have found
that it twists the rope so much that it is not worth using.  This past
weekend I used it for some quick belays while crossing a snowfield, after
one rope length I had to untie from the rope to get the twists out. That
sucked !!  BTW, I also used a boot ax belay, well sorta, it took me a couple
of tries to get it right.  Oh how soon the memory fades.

Allen R. Sanderson

Salt Lake City, Oootah


"Pucky lads, a wee bit over their heads"

	Doug Scott after encountering two climbers
	on Denali suffering from exposure.
From: trzyna@CS.ColoState.EDU (wayne trzyna)
Newsgroups: rec.climbing
Subject: Re: Why 5.7 is harder than 5.10 (was ratings)
Date: 14 Aug 92 19:27:22 GMT
Organization: Colorado State University, Computer Science Department

In article <1992Aug13.013729.16775@nas.nasa.gov> eugene@wilbur.nas.nasa.gov (Eugene N. Miya) writes:
>
>1) The MAJORITY of people I have met who CLAIMED they could "climb" 5.10
>never LED 5.10.

I can CLIMB 5.10X!  Pretty bold, eh?

-- 

-Wayne Trzyna
 trzyna@CS.ColoState.EDU
From: ted@nmsu.edu (Ted Dunning)
Newsgroups: rec.climbing
Subject: Re: emergency techniques (was Re: Cathedral Pk. Accident, Yosemite)
Date: 22 Aug 92 18:42:36 GMT
	<LIZB.92Aug19111201@klosters.ai.mit.edu>
	<1992Aug19.181901.29163@ucsu.Colorado.EDU>
	<TED.92Aug20185538@aeolia.nmsu.edu>
	<LIZB.92Aug21113859@klosters.ai.mit.edu>
Reply-To: ted@nmsu.edu
Organization: Computing Research Lab


In article <LIZB.92Aug21113859@klosters.ai.mit.edu> lizb@zurich.ai.mit.edu (Liz Bradley) writes:

   Ted Dunning writes:

      most rope twist can be avoided with the munter hitch if you take the
      effort and know how.

   I've always wondered about the topology here: how can a rope get a net
   twist in it at ALL when the climbers attached to its two ends don't
   rotate?

(a climber after my own heart.  i have wondered exactly this as a
brought up a second and had to feed a bunch of coils through my belay
device.) 

   Shouldn't the number of clockwise and counterclockwise twists
   be equal?

the situation is actually quite complex because the sheath can twist
slightly relative to the core, but yes, the clockwise and
counterclockwise twists should be equal.  they just can't necessarily
get to the same place in the rope.

   When you're trying to coil my rope after belaying through a
   munter hitch or a figure 8, it certainly *seems* like a net twist has
   been applied.  Confused.

_coiling_ a rope is the best way in the world to add twists to a rope.
stacking it is both faster and better from the standpoint of avoiding
twist.  the only disadvantage is that a stack can't go around
something making some tricks with packs and injured climbers more
difficult.  i find that by stacking a rope over my neck, i can almost
stack two ropes in the time it takes other people to coil one.  this
is very nice in thunderstormy weather.


the answer to the question about how to avoid twists in a rope when
using a munter hitch is simple.  you just watch the rope you are
feeding for twists.  as they form, you force them through the belay
device by grabbing the rope a bit farther from the belay device than
usual and forcing the twist through the belay.  this keeps the twist
and untwist near each other and allows them to untangle each other.


--

There ain't nothin' in this world that's worth being a snot over.
	Larry Wall
Newsgroups: rec.climbing
From: rainer@spot.Colorado.EDU (Rainer Malzbender)
Subject: Re: Easterners in the Front Range (long)
Organization: University of Colorado, Boulder
Date: Fri, 14 Aug 1992 18:46:22 GMT

In article <1992Aug12.170844.1@ccsua.ctstateu.edu> white_hae@ccsua.ctstateu.edu writes:
>Here's a report on an Easterner's first trip to Boulder...
>
>Monster Woman is a Colorado 5.8??

Monster Woman has sort of a reputation around here as the world's easiest
5.9 (the rating according to Erickson's book anyway, maybe 9-, I forget).
Perhaps that's why it's been downgraded - it should probably be downgraded
further to 5.7, although short people may not agree.

-- 
Rainer Malzbender
Post-doc, Physics
U. of Colorado, Boulder (303)492-1366           rainer@shelley.colorado.edu
From: gjh@galen.med.Virginia.EDU (Galen J. Hekhuis)
Newsgroups: rec.climbing
Subject: Re: Amazung week in CA
Date: 18 Aug 92 16:27:12 GMT
Organization: University of Virginia Health Sciences Center

In article <1992Aug18.081053.58230@cc.usu.edu> sinclair@cc.usu.edu (Bob Sinclair) writes:
}Eugene writes that five people have died in CA this week
}(Well, one was a hang glider accident)......

}Hang gliding *IS* climbing isn't it? 

In a word, no.  Hang gliding should not be confused with climbing.  
Neither should caving.  Please, for the sake of the sport of hang
gliding, you should make every effort to clear up any association
people might have with (I hate to even say the word) climbing...

--
       hang gliding mailing list: hang-gliding-request@virginia.edu 
     Galen Hekhuis  UVa Health Sci Ctr (804)982-1646 gjh@virginia.edu
  chinaware from China, indiaware from India, and underwear from down under
From: jahn@guinness.Idbsu.EDU (Greg Jahn)
Newsgroups: rec.climbing
Subject: Re: Misleading News Reports (was Amazung week in CA)
Date: 20 Aug 92 20:37:46 GMT
Reply-To: jahn@guinness.idbsu.edu
Organization: BSU - Data Center

While we're on the topics of news articles and untimely deaths
in the outdoors ... could someone explain exactly what
they mean when they say the two following types of things?

1) He/she died of natural causes ....
                  ^^^^^^^ ^^^^^^
2) He/she was found in about 15 different pieces, partly
   stuffed into a glove compartment and otherwise stored
   in the refridgerator, foul play is suspected.
                         ^^^^ ^^^^ ^^ ^^^^^^^^^

Don't mean to sound callous to what's been going on, ...
just trying to lighten things up a bit.
          
--
Greg Jahn, Boise State Univ.|"In this selfish age, public-spirited
/ jahn@guinness.idbsu.edu / | acts were left to the individual, and
/ dosjahn@idbsu.bitnet    / | what could the individual do on his
/ (208)385-3891.thephone  / | own?"        - Adolfo Bioy Casares
Organization: Penn State University
Date: Wed, 12 Aug 1992 21:47:51 EDT
From: jim bowers <FQV@psuvm.psu.edu>
Newsgroups: rec.climbing
Subject: Book and Video on building climbing walls

Seeing as there's been some interest on climbing walls lately I'd though
introduce a new VIDEO on building climbing walls by Petrogrips.  This
VIDEO is about one hour long and is sort of a this old house type of
presentation on all aspects of building climbing walls.  The VIDEO will
be available beginning of august and will cost around $19.95 (of course
there will be a netland discount).

Until the Video is available there is still the Petrogrip Guide to Building
affordable climbing walls ($7.50, 48 pages, $7.00 for netlanders).

                            Jim Bowers
From: luong@naxos.inria.fr (Quang-Tuan Luong)
Newsgroups: rec.climbing
Subject: Re: amazing week here in CA
Date: 17 Aug 92 16:17:50 GMT
Reply-To: luong@sophia.inria.fr
Organization: Inria Sofia Antipolis

In article <1992Aug13.211359.28427@nas.nasa.gov>, eugene@wilbur.nas.nasa.gov (Eugene N. Miya) writes:
|> I guess something like five people have died climbing this week in
|> CA (well, one was a hang glider accident).  One died two days ago
|> next to my climb for the weekend.  SO it goes.

What were the causes of the accidents ? 

Tuan.
From: luong@cuba.inria.fr (Quang-Tuan Luong)
Newsgroups: rec.climbing
Subject: Re: emergency techniques (was Re: Cathedral Pk. Accident, Yosemite)
Date: 19 Aug 92 10:22:14 GMT
Reply-To: luong@sophia.inria.fr
Organization: Inria Sofia Antipolis

In article <1992Aug18.144727.307@halfdome.sf.ca.us>, bob@halfdome.sf.ca.us (Bob Pasker) writes:

|> new climbers should be taught all the traditional techniques that were 
|> developed before modern technology made our lives so much easier. 

I agree entirely.

|> but its another thing to rappel when your descender has just fallen and hit
|> your partner on the head, knocking him out.  fancy devices are no substitute
|> for an understanding of friction.

Friction rappelling is the last thing to do. If you have still an harness,
which is likely when you climb, and a few or a single carabiners (quite
frequent also when you climb), you have best make an emergency descender.

Tuan.
Newsgroups: rec.climbing
From: eugene@wilbur.nas.nasa.gov (Eugene N. Miya)
Subject: Re: Please explain the rating system
Organization: NAS, NASA Ames Research Center, Moffett Field, CA
Date: Fri, 14 Aug 92 02:14:39 GMT

In article <1992Aug13.025821.7613@ucsu.Colorado.EDU>
marlatt@spot.Colorado.EDU (Stuart W. Marlatt) writes:
>(Eugene - your pictures are on their way home...thanks for the gift!)

Yeah I like the atmospheric phenomena pictures on the wall at NCAR.
The SB is given to you guys (I've not heard from Symthe) in the spirit
of Quint in Jaws: like giving a life vest in shark infested waters.
"May you never have to use it."  Or like the character Joubert in Condor:
"Until that day."

>>I don't think it's that difficult.  Ever read the qualitative descriptions
>>of the Richter scale?  Can't we even begin to describe what a *typical*
>>5.9 would be?  One example- at what level do overhangs typically begin?

I'm still trying to figure this out.  The scale is log base 10 with
certain coefficients, but the 5.9 problem is a multivariant problem
(hold size, steepness, texture, etc.).  Richter's scale is attempting
to characterize the magnitude of energy from physical displacement.
Richter chose a log scale for not only the large range, but low frequency
of large-scale events.  The problem is there's large amounts of very hard
rock (climbing) out there.

--eugene miya, NASA Ames Research Center, eugene@orville.nas.nasa.gov
  Resident Cynic, Rock of Ages Home for Retired Hackers
  {uunet,mailrus,other gateways}!ames!eugene
Second Favorite email message: Returned mail: Cannot send message for 3 days
A Ref: Mathematics and Plausible Reasoning, vol. 1, G. Polya
From: pears@latcs1.lat.oz.au (Arnold N Pears)
Newsgroups: rec.climbing
Subject: Re: Where to mail-order a rope from?
Date: 23 Aug 92 02:54:40 GMT
Organization: Comp Sci, La Trobe Uni, Australia

In article <BtC4Gz.555@cs.dal.ca> gauthier@ug.cs.dal.ca (Paul Gauthier) writes:
>I am located in the barren wastelands of Canada where rope prices are
>insanely high! It costs about $US140 for a standard length rope (about

A reasonable upper range 11mm rope in Aust was about
$US200 to $US220 the last time I looked.

So count yourself lucky....

Arnold.

-- 
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Arnold Pears.  Computer Sci Dept		ACSNET : pears@latcs1.oz
La Trobe Uni, Bundoora 3083.			"Well here we all are then."
    Ph (03) 479-1144						-ME
Newsgroups: rec.climbing
From: timsc@hwcae.Honeywell.COM (Tim Schneider)
Subject: New location for gif files
Reply-To: timsc@hwcae.honeywell.com
Organization: Honeywell, Air Transport Division; Phoenix, AZ
Distribution: rec
Date: Fri, 14 Aug 1992 14:36:09 GMT


Here's the new location for the gif files.  I received email back from
one of the administrators, and he asked me to place them on the host
below in pub/climbing_pics.  I also told him about the other directory
on the archive machine.  He may delete those or leave them, I didnt
hear what he intended to do with those.  So presently there are two
places to grab the gif files from.  last.cac is the "official" one the
other is a directory I was able to create.  If you want the gif index
(name of gif file and contents), let me know I'll be glad to email
those out to whoever requests them.


Name:           last.cac.washington.edu
Address:        140.142.113.176
the directory:  pub/climbing_pics.




I dont know how long the following directory will be online (see below)

 >Name:          wuarchive.wustl.edu
 >Address:       128.252.135.4

 >the directory: graphics/gif/Incoming/climb.

--
tim schneider                       honeywell air transport systems division
ph: 602.436.3078 fax: 602.436.2252   po box 21111 ms k26e2 phoenix, az 85036
email: timsc@hwcae.honeywell.com  or  uunet!asuvax!hwcae.honeywell.com!timsc

Newsgroups: rec.climbing
From: brodesky@td2cad.intel.com (Michael Brodesky)
Subject: test
Organization: intel corporation
Date: Thu, 13 Aug 1992 00:08:53 GMT



Sorry about this but our news was shut off.

--
Michael Brodesky Internet Mbrodesky@sc9.Intel.com
UUCP : {pur-ee,qanad,oliveb,decwrl,hplabs}!intelca!mipos3!td2cad!brodesky
Sally sold sea shells. Ned Needamyer needled his nose on the nose. 
During the week I climb left to right. On weekends I climb up and down.
Newsgroups: rec.climbing,rec.backcountry
From: misterl@athena.mit.edu (Lawrence P Lubowsky)
Subject: Re: Flashbulbs (was: Public Perceptions)
Organization: Massachusetts Institute of Technology
Date: Mon, 17 Aug 1992 20:13:27 GMT



There's an important aspect of the single-use cameras which I don't
believe was mentioned.  In addition to the fact that most of the
camera is reused or recycled, the camera doesn't use batteries.  

I used the panoramic one when I went to Acadia.  There was no problem
developing the film, and no extra cost or extra time required.  I had
them done at a "one hour" place.  Nice photos!


Larry
--
  Larry Lubowsky         | I'm looking for a job in the Boston area.
  misterl@athena.mit.edu | Computers, Bio-electrical Eng., Medicine
			 | MIT Graduate.  Ask me for my resume.

Newsgroups: rec.climbing
From: ahdlm@Msu.oscs.montana.edu
Subject: Re: Bozeman info wanted
Reply-To: ahdlm@Msu.oscs.montana.edu
Organization: Montana State University
Date: Thu, 13 Aug 1992 15:29:56 GMT

In article <0095F069.B817FD60@Msu.oscs.montana.edu>, ahdlm@Msu.oscs.montana.edu writes:
>In article <revillot-100892145550@mm-mac19.mse.uiuc.edu>, revillot@ux1.cso.uiuc.edu (Judy Tolliver) writes:
>>Last Spring, I requested this same sort of information about Placerville,
>>California and got some very helpful responses.  The result was that I did
>>go out there to check it out and decided that it was not the place for me.
>>
>>In a nutshell, my husband has a bookstore on the campus of U Illinois in
>>Urbana.  After 15+ years of living among corn and beans, we would like to
>>relocate somewhere closer to some wilderness "out west," yet not starve to
>>death.  Unfortunately, most towns we'd like to live in (Ouray, Durango,
>>Madison, etc.) either already have good bookstores or do not have the
>>business climate that would support one.  Looking for another place has now
>>become something of a hobby.   For reference, we'd like to run a bookstore
>>along the lines of Tattered Cover (Denver), Cody's (Berkeley), Elliot Bay
>>(Seattle), but on a much smaller scale.  The current town we're looking
>>into is Bozeman, Montana.
>>
>>I'd appreciate any comments on Bozeman or suggestions of other "good" towns
>>that could use another bookstore.
>>
>>Thanks!
>>
>>               Judy Tolliver
>
>
>Judy,
>
>	Hello!  I saw your post and will try to help.  The Sports Cove is an
>excellent place to contact for information about climbing in the area.  I live
>in Bozeman and rent from an avid climber and he recommended this store for
>information.  Their address is 407 W. Main, Bozeman, MT  59715  or if you
>prefer to call - (406) 585-9926.  If you would care for more information, you
>may write Curt Shirer, P.O. Box 274 Gallatin Gateway, MT  59730-0274.  Curt
>will help you find what you are looking for.  I work in the p.e. dept. and
>there is access to a climbing wall for off season training.  Curt could help
>with information that as well.  

Excuse the faux pas - my server screwed up and I replied to the wrong message
with this info - anyway - Bozeman is a wonderful little town.  I have lived
here for the past 11 years.  There are many professional people here, artists,
cowboys, intellects, you name it - they are here.  We have a few bookstores but
only 1 or 2 that are really worth visiting on a regular basis.  It is hard to
say whether it could hold another bookstore or not - it depends on what you
would like to market to.  I think Bozeman could support a culturally expressive
one.  I ran across a really nice bookstore in Santa Barbara  where it was a
place for people to recite poetry, review books, play selective music - really
nice atmosphere.  I believe that Bozeman could support something like that -
something that is a little more culturally expressive.  There is a lot of
western literature available and somewhat of an overkill, IMO.  Does this help? 
Would you like more info?