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Date:         Tue, 15 Sep 1992 08:24:58 EDT
From:         DDAVIDSON@CBACC.CBA.UGA.EDU
Subject:      Re: Hi everyone

Jill, it is good to have you back.
a servant of Christ,

 -------------------------------------------------------------------
 | Dennis Davidson             |                                   |
 | ddavidson@cbacc.cba.uga.edu |                                   |
 | University of Georgia       |                                   |
 | 706-542-3821                |                                   |
 -------------------------------------------------------------------
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Newsgroups: bit.listserv.christia
Date:         Thu, 10 Sep 1992 15:13:28 EDT
From:         carol nemec <YA67@FERRIS.BITNET>
Subject:      Favorite Scripture--phillipians 4:13

I can do all things through Christ who strengthens me.

Also Romans 31-39

Carol Nemec
ya67@ferris
From: anb1@ns1.cc.lehigh.edu (ANDREW N. BRIMER)
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.christia
Subject: Re: Spiritual Gifts
Date: 10 Sep 92 19:12:08 GMT
Organization: Lehigh University

In article <9209090718.AA03854@a-hp.au.oracle.com>, iwilliam@AU.ORACLE.COM (Ian
Williams) writes:
>Wolfgang,
>If people perminately had the I cor 14 gifts then pray tell why are not
>all our hospitals empty/demons cast out/ seas parted etc etc etc..
>
>No one PERMINATELY has the gift of Miracles, not even Jesus. Jesus acted
>under the annointing of the Holy Spirit as a man, no one PERMINATELY has
>any of the 1 Cor Gifts (oh I wish we did)..
>
>Public Tounges for the edification of the Body are not something we have all
>the time either (IMHO). Tounges for ediification of the body is really
>just a prophesy in a non native language to the hearing audience.
>
>Personal tounges for self edification/prayer/intercession is another matter.
>
>Ian Williams

The scripture states that all believers are given at least one of the gifts in
order that the church might be built up.

All of our hospitals are not empty because of the symptoms of our sinful
nature.  Sin the the condition, and the sins are the result. As long as evil
remains on the earth, we cannot be free from the sickness.  Also, look a
little into the gift of healing.  Is it the person who is praying for another
to be healed the one with the gift?  Could it be that the person who receives
the healing is the one who momentarily has the gift.  This may seemingly
contradict what I said earlier about gifts being permanent.

A good point which has been brought up in other posts is that one gift is not
better than any other.  They are all equal in God's sight.  Why do we have the
tendency to list things from top to bottom?  We are all equal in God's sight,
so why do we try to make ourselves better than the next person?

Andy
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Resent-Subject: *PRAISE REPORT: MANGNITUDE 1*
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.christia
Date:         Fri, 11 Sep 1992 10:08:36 CDT
Comments:     Resent-From: THERESA BLACKWELL <TBLACKWL@USMCP6.BITNET>
From:         THERESA BLACKWELL <TBLACKWL@USMCP6.BITNET>

 Typed this out to my Pastor's son, Matt... thought I'd share
 it with you guys as well (Carol got it privately, too, I think!)
 WOW..... ALL I CAN SAY, IS WOW.....
 Nothing God ever does is in vain... might be another door open
 in the future.
 I'm so glad that Virginia and I can set aside the Denominational
 differences, and just get down to the business at hand.
 Praise is all we're interested in here, but if you can't praise
 his name, and give it the best you got, then WHY DO IT IN THE FIRST
 PLACE???
 God Bless you all real good today.
 PRAY FOR VIRGINIA AND ME... we'll need this!
 "G"

 * <TBLACKWL@USMCP6.BITNET>


    Sent: 09/11/92 09:55  Rcvd: 09/11/92 10:04  Number: 17
      To: matt@sparc.ncpa.olemiss.edu             From: THERESA BLACKWELL
 Subject: "Reason to Rejoice"

  I do have a reason for rejoicing this morning!!! God's opened
yet another door for me here at USM... here's the deal:
  David's Mother is music minister at Westlake United Methodist
  here in the Burg.  She called Kathy (David's sis) to ask what
  instrument I played... she could not remember! ANYWAY... David
  was called by Kathy and he told her that I played flute.

  Virginia then called me last night... upon which I returned her
 call this morning, to find out that I'd play with the choir in
  the SUNDAY MORNING WORSHIP services there on September 27th!
  I'm gonna love this opportunity, because not only will I know
  the minister of music, but I'll also get a chance to play in
  front of total and complete strangers.
  Maybe this will relieve the "jitters"... dunno.
  I'm so happy right now.
  To think that David's Mom would ask such from me...
  I'm glad that David and I decided to remain friends.  Due to
  that fact, Virginia and I still talk, and WE are best friends as
  well...

  She (Virginia) also offered to pay me from the Church music
  fund, or however they pay their music ppl... I declined that,
  because I would have done that just for the praise opportunity,
  but... she insisted.
  Maybe I can apply the check to school???
  Sometimes God does things in ways we don't understand, but I"m
  praisin' him right now.... as I type this.

  I do not understand HIS ways, but I'll use my music to
  praise HIM as long as I can.
  I'm also thinkin' that this might open a door for David and I.
  (There I go again... hopes up... oh well... only in this for the
 praise ... if David does show up that Sunday, I will deal with
   crossin' that bridge later... )
  Who knows????
  Gotta run... find out who made Wind Ensemble...
  Love you, in JC!
  "G"

 * <TBLACKWL@USMCP6.BITNET>
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Newsgroups: bit.listserv.christia
Date:         Thu, 10 Sep 1992 10:27:00 EST
From:         "DRCV06::GRAHAM" <GRAHAM%DRCV06.decnet@DRCVAX.AF.MIL>
Subject:      Spiritual rape.

Ian, you can attach any emotionally charged term you wish to the doctrine
of sovereign election, but it won't change a thing.

Surely, from our standpoint, Jesus is standing at the door knocking, and we
certainly do have to make a choice, but that is only from our standpoint.

From God's point of view, He has chosen us in eternity past and has enabled
us to answer that divine knock.

It seems we've been around this before, maybe we shouldn't start again, so
I'll shut up now.

Dan Graham
From: lcrew@andromeda.rutgers.edu (Louie Crew)
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.christia
Subject: Re: Spong
Date: 8 Sep 92 04:23:42 GMT
Reply-To: <lcrew@andromeda.rutgers.edu>
Organization: Rutgers Univ., New Brunswick, N.J.

Z_STAFF_CL@SOUTHAMPTON-INSTITUTE.AC.UK writes:


>As for pay structures, for good reason they are kept separate
>from the theological side.   I believe this is standard
>practice in many organisations where independance of belief
>is held to be important.

I serve on Diocesan Council, and on its budget committee, which charts 
finances for the Diocese of Newark, where Bishop Spong is our Ordinary.

I cannot imagine getting more for our money!  We have a bishop who not 
only reads (rare these days!) but actually writes books, and writes them
so well that people read them who do not even have to!   In the past
the House of Bishops had many who could lay claim to such disctinctions,
but we have fallen on the blandness of the age.

The first commandment calls upon us to love God with our Minds!  Yet that
comes as news to millions of people who thought they knew all about all
commandments.

Bishop Spong just sent us his report of his projects completed while he was 
on a mini-sabbatical as a Fellow in England this spring.

Last spring I went for several nights in a row to a packed room in 
Montclair where Bishop Spong held enthralled for over three hours for 
four nights in a row a congregation of some of the most educated 
persons in our society, people who run many of the major institutions in
New York and northern New Jersey, and what was he talking about during 
all those hours....   The bible, with heavy references to the original
languages.   

How many Bible thumpers do you know who could engage intellectuals for 
such a marathon?

Ah, but someone thinks, he's only able to do that by telling them what 
they WANT to hear!

Not so.  He's telling them to pay higher taxes; to bring justice by
reinvesting in the lives and personhood of the poor and oppressed right 
here in our own community; to risk jeopardy in their corporate competition
by taking all the measures that preserve our environment.........

You haven't heard about  that?  Why?  Because fundamentalists are 
so sex-crazed that they forget the real fundamentals:  Do justice,
love mercy, and walk humbly.

Louie/Quean Lutibelle

-- 
  ==========================================================================
  Louie Crew, Assoc. Prof., Academic Foundations Dept., Rutgers U./NWK 07102
  lcrew@andromeda.rutgers.edu                                   201-485-4503
                    Heteroprivilege is against New Jersey law!
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Newsgroups: bit.listserv.christia
Date:         Tue, 15 Sep 1992 13:07:26 EDT
From:         Leo W <Leo_W@QM.CIRCA.UFL.EDU>
Subject:      Re>Tradition

Nabil wrote: "What was written is a subset of what was passed on by the
Apostles. So in no way "Sola Scriptura" can be justified."

I am currently re-reading the surviving writings of the earliest church
fathers.  During this very early period (1 and early 2 century) the Scriptures
we have in our NT canon are the ONLY apostolic traditions the authors
consistently appeal to when discussing doctrine, stewardship, prophecy, and
practice.

When they mention the beliefs and practices of the various churches as living
testimonies to the apostolic traditions, it is only when criticizing a heresy
in a manner similar to, "Well, NOBODY believes that nonsense!"  The very early
church fathers always proved their traditions were apostolic by appealing to
the NT Scriptures, never by appealing to each other.  Was their Sola Scriptura
tradition not justified?

"Using the Scriptures, the person who serves God will be ready and will have
everything he needs to do every good work" (2 Timothy 3:17).

Yours in Christ Jesus,
Leo
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Date:         Tue, 15 Sep 1992 08:39:26 PDT
From:         Barry Wadsworth <BARRYW@UCSFVM.BITNET>
Subject:      Re: Gays want to be left alone???

Tim,
If you want to hear ranting, look at this weeks Newsweek.
Talk about BIASED JOURNALISM!

It is interesting how people who don't agree with me
will try any tactic to shut me up or make what I said
look rediculous.  But, just read Romans 1:26. Then
re-read what I said.  Just because I feel that we should
heed warnings written in the Bible, does that mean I
should seek professional help?

Anyway, thanks for your opinion.
BarryW
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Date:         Mon, 7 Sep 1992 13:05:48 EST
From:         Kerry Stephenson <KSTE@PURCCVM.BITNET>
Subject:      Prayer request--crime & violence

Hi all:

The mall where I work is increasingly becoming an occupied zone.  It is
occupied by skateboard punks from the high school, drunken freshmen,
and what passes for gangs in this community.  It is what is called
a "strip mall" rather than an indoor mall, so the activity going on
in the parking lot has a very significant effect on business and
its reputation.  Since the traffic pattern changed last May, we have
all experienced drastic losses of business.  Since another bar opened
nearby (which does not have its own parking lot), we have had a horrible
parking problem.  Since the closing of the nearby cafe where the radical
punks (high school and college) used to hang out, they have moved to
our side of the street.  Since the University passed a regulation to
allow skateboarding and such on campus, we have had skateboard punks
jumping the steps and riding the ramps of the local businesses and
racing each other in the parking lot.  Last week, at 3 o-clock in the
afternoon, I watched as a jeep full of youth pulled up into a space
outside of Taco Bell.  They turned up the stereo, got out of the
jeep, and just stood around smoking cigarettes and swearing at people
for the better part of a half an hour (then I had to go back to work,
so I don't know what happened next).  Their "music" mostly involved
a pounding beat and a guy shouting obscenities about women (this is
apparently one of those songs that isn't on the radio!)  I work until
9 on Friday nights, and leaving the store to walk home is a truly
unpleasant experience.

Yesterday, the local paper carried a story detailing the police activities
on campus for Saturday evening (the reporter rode around with the police
and wrote about all the parties and fights going on).  Our mall was
prominently mentioned as the site of violence, fights, at least one
visit from the paramedics, and several arrests for assault and
underage drinking.  I am beginning to lose all hope that our store can
ever recover its business, with nothing being done to stop the
degeneration of the area.  Bear in mind, as well, that this was
the first Labor Day Weekend that Purdue has ever taken as a holiday,
so a very large number of potential revelers were not even *here*.
The coming weekend promises to be worse, since there will be a football
game that we will almost certainly lose (badly), and students will
have remained mostly on campus.

I am terribly concerned, not only for the business, but for the community.
I was *born* here, and I have never seen anything like current conditions.
In addition, businesses are leaving the mall in droves--and we just
brilliantly signed a 3-year lease last summer (but it did include con-
cessions from management to do something about the parking problems,
which they have not yet done.)  Even if the business can move, the
community cannot.  I *live* in this neighborhood, and it grieves me
to see such evil destroying a community I love.

Help!

Love INC,
         --Kerry
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From: FACN34B@SAUPM00.BITNET (zane of dhahran)
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.christia
Subject: the suffering church
Date: 12 Sep 92 14:00:15 GMT
Organization: King Fahd University of Petroleum and Minerals, S.A.
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X-Acknowledge-To: <FACN34B@SAUPM00.BITNET>

Recently a man was beheaded in a city north of here for denying that Mohammed
was a prophet.  Was he a heretic or a saint?  God will be the judge.
Recently it has been reiterated in the press that mails coming into this
country that have crosses or other religious symbols on them are to be
confiscated.

So, we are going to sell the Saudi government 72 new F-15s.  Good idea.
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Newsgroups: bit.listserv.christia
Date:         Wed, 9 Sep 1992 14:32:32 CDT
From:         Jesse Carnes <NOTJIC@LSUVM.BITNET>
Subject:      RE: HOW are we RIGHTEOUS in Christ?
              9 Sep 1992 10:56:06 -0700 from <DRAKE@ASUCHM.LA.ASU.EDU>

Dear Mark Drake ;

Read "The Attributes of God" by Stephen Charnock ( 2 vol. )
God has 2 types of attributes :

1) communicable

2) incommunicable


Those of the second catagory CANNOT be given to anyone outside of the
Godhead, without making some created being or thing as absolute as the Lord.
Example, God is omnipresent.  He cannot give that to any created thing, for
that would be to create additional Diety, and Diety, by definition, CANNOT
be created.
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Date:         Wed, 9 Sep 1992 02:18:17 EST
From:         Kerry Stephenson <KSTE@PURCCVM.BITNET>
Subject:      Re: Liberty University???
              8 Sep 1992 10:24:39 EDT from <CA36%CATCC.BITNET@VTVM2.CC.VT.EDU>

St. John:

I am unaware of problems with Liberty U.  Jimmy Swaggart Bible
College, however, is very near to going under, I understand.

(Too bad.  One of my best friends went there, back when it was something
worth going to.) :-(

Love INC,
         --Kerry
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Date:         Thu, 10 Sep 1992 16:18:46 CST
From:         Ian Williams <iwilliam@AU.ORACLE.COM>
Subject:      RE: HOW are we RIGHTEOUS in Christ?
              at Sep 9, 92 5:55 am

>
>Dear Mark Drake ;
>
>Mayby I should use the word, HOLINESS.
>It is inherent only with the Lord.
>Angels are called "holy" but they are NOT inherently so.
>All Truth, all Light, all righteousness, all holiness is intuitive ...
>inherent with the Lord.
>All that is beyond His metaphysical being is derived from Him.

>The angels do not sin, for example, not because they have inherent power
>over it, but that God Himself keeps them free of it.
>
>
>Jesse Carnes
>

I believe that the angels do not sin because they choose not to. They have
not a fallen nature but obviously we see that at one stage some of them
(some say a third) did decide to Sin and rebel against God! (ouch here
comes that nasty free will argument again huh??????)

The 'inherent' ability that Angels have over sin is their choice not to
engage in it..


---------------------+-------------+-----------------------------------------
Ian Williams         |    _--_|\   |      Internet: iwilliam@au.oracle.com
Oracle Systems       |   /      \  |	  Phone	  : +61 8 239 3900
Adelaide, Australia  |   \_.--*_/  |
                     |         v   |
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.christia
From: timk@world.std.com (Tim King)
Subject: Re: Tradition & Sola Script
Organization: The World Public Access UNIX, Brookline, MA
Date: Fri, 11 Sep 1992 03:25:16 GMT

Perhaps we are not all using the same definition of Sola Script.
Sola Script is the statement that all teachings necessary for salvation
are in the scriptures.  Someone please correct me if I'm wrong about
the definition.

Sola Script is not the statement that all true statements are in the
scriptures and that all statements not in the scriptures (including
tradition) must be false.

Incidentally, Steve, good choice of references.  You pose a good
argument.  Job well done.

However, in order to accept a tradition as divine, I would
expect to have some assurance that (1) it is authentic and (2) it has
been accuratly transmitted.  The authenticity and accuracy of scripture
has been reaffirmed time and time again.  Although not everyone has
agreed on what should constitute "inspired scripture," the questioning of
it seems to have only resulted in a confirmation of its correctness.
But even if this were not the case, the accuracy of the transmission of
the written word is by nature more accurate than that of the oral word.
Anybody got statistics?  Anybody ever play Password?  (I think that's
what the game's called.)

-TimK
-- 
Tim King                  |  Some of us favor logic in making decisions.
24 Myrtle Street          |  Some, emotions.  I, personally, get very    |\
Dedham, MA 02026          |  emotional about faulty logic! :-)           | >
timk@world.std.com        |                                             <>
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X-Resent-Orig-To: YA67@FERRIS,CHRISTIA@ASUACAD
Resent-Subject: once again...
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.christia
Date:         Fri, 11 Sep 1992 10:15:14 CDT
Comments:     Resent-From: THERESA BLACKWELL <TBLACKWL@USMCP6.BITNET>
From:         THERESA BLACKWELL <TBLACKWL@USMCP6.BITNET>

 HOPE THIS GETS THERE THIS TIME.
 -------
 I typed this to Matt... hope everyone here got it as well.
 Something this great, can't be held in.
 :) God keeps opening doors .... I don't think he'd have done
 this if he didn't want me to be there helpin' Virginia out.
 After all, Musicians have to stick together, and ESPECIALLY
 CHristian musicians.
 :)
 Please pray that God uses us mightily that Sunday.
 Theresa

 * <TBLACKWL@USMCP6.BITNET>


    Sent: 09/11/92 09:55  Rcvd: 09/11/92 10:04  Number: 17
      To: matt@sparc.ncpa.olemiss.edu             From: THERESA BLACKWELL
 Subject: "Reason to Rejoice"

  I do have a reason for rejoicing this morning!!! God's opened
yet another door for me here at USM... here's the deal:
  David's Mother is music minister at Westlake United Methodist
  here in the Burg.  She called Kathy (David's sis) to ask what
  instrument I played... she could not remember! ANYWAY... David
  was called by Kathy and he told her that I played flute.

  Virginia then called me last night... upon which I returned her
 call this morning, to find out that I'd play with the choir in
  the SUNDAY MORNING WORSHIP services there on September 27th!
  I'm gonna love this opportunity, because not only will I know
  the minister of music, but I'll also get a chance to play in
  front of total and complete strangers.
  Maybe this will relieve the "jitters"... dunno.
  I'm so happy right now.
  To think that David's Mom would ask such from me...
  I'm glad that David and I decided to remain friends.  Due to
  that fact, Virginia and I still talk, and WE are best friends as
  well...

  She (Virginia) also offered to pay me from the Church music
  fund, or however they pay their music ppl... I declined that,
  because I would have done that just for the praise opportunity,
  but... she insisted.
  Maybe I can apply the check to school???
  Sometimes God does things in ways we don't understand, but I"m
  praisin' him right now.... as I type this.

  I do not understand HIS ways, but I'll use my music to
  praise HIM as long as I can.
  I'm also thinkin' that this might open a door for David and I.
  (There I go again... hopes up... oh well... only in this for the
 praise ... if David does show up that Sunday, I will deal with
   crossin' that bridge later... )
  Who knows????
  Gotta run... find out who made Wind Ensemble...
  Love you, in JC!
  "G"

 * <TBLACKWL@USMCP6.BITNET>
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.christia