HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: rjhawkin@mothra.syr.EDU (The Virtual Kid)
Subject: Re: Libraries - anti-theft systems
Organization: Syracuse University, Syracuse, NY
Date: Mon, 31 Aug 92 19:09:26 EDT

In article <g89s9141.20.715033335@giraffe.ru.ac.za> g89s9141@giraffe.ru.ac.za (MR K SMITH) writes:
>My initial guess was a magnetic system, ie include some highly magnetised 
>pin in the spine of the book.  So far I have not found any objects in the 
>spines.  It also seems that very narow journal can also be made to trigger 
>the alarm system when not checked out.
>
>A further bit of evidence is that the system does seem to be set off by 
>people with a big bunch of keys in their pockets.
>
>Any ideas?

 Well I dont know how it works but some stores like Babbages, a computer
store in my area, uses an aluminum foil in a spireal(sp?) to
protect their inventory. 

Note: such a foil could also be placed in or under the take out cardholder
      inside of the book.

My guess is that the 2 uprights create a field of electromagnetic radiation
much like a small radio station. The foil passing throught the field distorts
it and the distortion is detected and sets off an alarm. A large bunch of
keys could create such a distortion I guess, but am not sure how.

The one thing I have noticed is that you dont leave the library with 
your books in hand...they usually give them to you on the far side of
the uprights. This is the way it is at our library anyway.

Please either mail rjhawkin@mailbox.syr.edu or post your polite corrections.

SEND ALL FLAMES TO RJHAWKIN@FUBAR.SYR.EDU (F*cked Up Beyond All Recognition)

<><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>
<>  No I dont know what I am talking about, this is just my hobby       <>
<><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>
Newsgroups: alt.locksmithing
From: billn@hpcvaac.cv.hp.com (bill nelson)
Subject: Re: plugs
Organization: Hewlett-Packard Company, Corvallis, Oregon USA
Date: Sat, 29 Aug 1992 22:31:58 GMT

star@husc9.harvard.edu (Joshua Star) writes:
: Recently, I disassembled a few locks which had pins that were too immobile
: to pick.  In order to take the plug out of one lock, I had to either
: pick the lock, or drill through some metal that were retaining the pins.
: In fact, I drilled it, which was surprisingly easy, but is this standard
: practice?  You might say: "standard practice would be to pick it"  but there
: was one long pin at the back ... in the seventh slot .. that was unpickable.
: It was only in the cylinder to retain the plug.  So one question is ..
: Did I have to drill? and if yes,  How does one fill in the holes after?

You could have filed the tops off the spring housing - or popped the cap that
exists on some cylinders. You can carefully epoxy on a thin sheet of brass
before you put the lock back together.

If you drill through the shell or plug, then you can discard that part. It is
not worth the effort to repair it.

: I noticed some interesting things when I took the plug out and the
: spring loaded pins went flying.  One was that there were a few small balls
: that flew out.  About the size of B-B's that fit in the pin slots.  Are
: these some kind of anti-picking device?   How do they thwart picking?

Some locks have these to keep the key from wearing the pins. They would be
put into the plug first, before you put in the pins.

: Putting the lock back together let me make some observations... tell me if
: I'm wrong.: 1) the size of the top half of the pin doesn't affect the keying.
: (I mean the half that will be raised above the shear line.)

True - but they have to be long enough so the spring does not go below the
shear line, and short enough that the spring does not become fully comressed.

: 2) it is very difficult to reach into this small space in the cylinder and
: deposit spring, then pin in the right slot, and hold it down while trying
: to fit the plug in to hold it.  To do all six pins would be very hard like
: this.  I don't have any special tools other than tweezers and the like.  Is
: there something a lot more sophisticated out there that the locksmiths are
: using?

There is a shell vice - but you can survive without it. You put all the pins,
except the top pin, in the plug. You then insert the plug until it is next to
the first hole. Make sure that the pins in the plug DO NOT line up with the
holes in the shell. Note that the shell is in the holder with the holes down.
Now, insert the spring in that hole, then use tweezers to insert the pin part
way into the hole. Gently press the plug against the pin, to hold it in place
and use the tweezers to press the pin the rest of the way down.
Do the rest of the springs and pins the same way. Hold the plug in the shell
and turn the plug until it locks.  Now, test the key, or keys if it is a
master-key system. If all works right, without binding, then complete the
reassembly of the lock.

Bill
From: spt@waikato.ac.nz (Simon Travaglia)
Newsgroups: alt.locksmithing
Subject: Re: Libraries - anti-theft systems
Date: 30 Aug 92 07:28:04 GMT
Organization: University of Waikato Computer Centre

In article <1992Aug30.022411.22557@wolves.uucp>, lance@wolves.uucp (Lance Brown) writes:
> Well, the library at my old school used VERY thin ~1/8 inch wide magnetic
> strips that they "magically" inserted into the bindings of books and
> journals.  They even somehow managed to get these boogers in the 
> "perfect bound" journals without apparent damage.


Yeah, 3M used to make them, I'm not sure if they still do.  They'd be about
so:
	[@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@]

And were double sided sticky.  Great stuff too, because you put it between
a couple of pages, (at the spine of course) slam the book shut and sit on it
for a while (Esp if you're a 50 stone weakling) and the pages just look like
the glue on the binding seeped a bit.  The tape can be put anywhere on the
book, behind "Date Due" labels, in the spine etc etc.  They look almost like
a peice of tin foil, but are a tad thicker.

Don't be a cheap shithead - buy the book.

Oh, and having more than one strip in a book is a favourite trick too and
effects the machine not a tad.

Another interesting point is that some of the units effect walkmans (or maybe
"some walkmans", certainly my Sony.  You're walking thru the sensor, and you'll
hear a "clock clock clock" sometimes.  Of course, it could be some anarchist
with a bomb just pissing me around...

Remember what I said - be good trooper and buy the book.
              /\                                                             
   /\    /\/\/  \/\/\      /\  /\/\        /\                /\            /\  
__/  \/\/            \/\/\/  \/    \/\/\/\/  \  /\/\/\/\/\/\/  \/\      /\/  \ 
A 117 part secret message from Simon Travaglia\/spt@waikato.ac.nz \/\/\/
  /\          /\University of Waikato, Private Bag, Hamilton, New Zealand
\/  \    /\/\/  \/\/\      /\  /\/\Ph: 064-7-838-4008/\  /\  /\    /\      /\ 
     \/\/            \/\/\/  \/    \/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/  \/  \/  \/\/  \/\/\/  \ 
The Generalized Thermodynamic Law (Systems Theory): The things we see more 
 frequently are more frequent: (1) because there is some physical reason to 
 favor certain states or (2) because there is some mental reason.
From: htrober@eos.ncsu.edu (Heath Roberts)
Newsgroups: alt.locksmithing
Subject: Re: ABUS Granite
Date: 4 Sep 92 17:41:56 GMT
Organization: Northern Telecom
X-Useragent: Nuntius v1.1b3

ABUS Granite

The lock you described sounds like an Abloy (or similar design) lock, 
and if so, then yes, it's pretty much pick-proof. It's a sidebar lock, 
which means that there's no way to pick one disk at a time--they
all have to line up simultaneously for the bar to move in and release
the cylinder.

Bicycle locks are often sold as pick-proof (and may in fact be pick-
proof), but nothing works like a good carbide bit on a gas-powered
circular saw. Takes about twenty seconds (nineteen to start the saw).
Newsgroups: alt.locksmithing
From: chad@cix.compulink.co.uk (Charles Dignes)
Subject: Re: Telephones
Cc: chad@cix.compulink.co.uk
Reply-To: chad@cix.compulink.co.uk
Date: Sun, 30 Aug 1992 22:36:09 +0000


> I have heard, though I don't know if it's still accurate, that according
> to the FBI, only one person was ever know to break into pay phones.


What sort of lock does a US payphone use ?
From: billn@hpcvaac.cv.hp.com (bill nelson)
Newsgroups: alt.locksmithing
Subject: Re: Lockset
Date: 4 Sep 92 20:17:06 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: Hewlett-Packard Company, Corvallis, Oregon USA

ifbb657@ccwf.cc.utexas.edu (Douglas Floyd) writes:
: What is the most secure lock-in-the-knob and deadbolt

I know of no lock-in-knob set that is secure. This is due to the
simplicity of just breaking the knob off and opening the door with
a screwdriver.

Deadbolts are much more secure. Even they do little if the door and
doorframe are not strong.  Most  household doors, even with deadbolts,
can easily be kicked in or jimmied with a jack or prybar.

Bill
Newsgroups: alt.locksmithing,misc.consumers.house
From: richg@hatch.socal.com (Rich Greenberg)
Subject: Multiple locks, same key.  yes/no?
Keywords: locks, keys
Organization: Hatch Usenet and E-mail.  Playa del Rey, CA
Date: Sun, 30 Aug 1992 17:50:24 GMT

I would like to collect some net.opinions.
Given a typical suburban house with 2 locks on the front door (a key-in-knob
and a deadbolt), and the same on the back door,  what do you feel is the 
proper number of keys?

On my house, I have all 4 (plus the garage) keyed alike.  IMHO, this
is the proper way to do it. *I* don't want to have to carry a bunch
of similar keys, and have to fumble for 2 keys each time I open the
door.  Other friends disagree, and want all locks different.

How do you feel?
-- 
                
Rich Greenberg - N6LRT - 310-649-0238 - richg@hatch.socal.com
Newsgroups: alt.locksmithing,misc.consumers.house
From: Larry Margolis <margoli@watson.ibm.com>
Subject: Re: Multiple locks, same key.  yes/no?
Date: Fri, 04 Sep 1992 12:46:07 GMT
Reply-To: margoli@watson.IBM.com
Disclaimer: This posting represents the poster's views, not necessarily those of IBM
Organization: The Village Waterbed

In  <1992Sep2.191154.16547@dg-rtp.dg.com>  eliot@chutney.rtp.dg.com (Topher Eliot) writes:
> I used to be of the opinion that locks that can be locked by slamming the
> door were worse than useless, in that they just gave a false sense of
> security.  I had planned on converting our house to having a deadbolt on
> each door, keyed alike, with knobs on the inside, and bedroom door latches
> in place of the current standard knob-in-handle locks.

I absolutely disagree.  When my sister and her new husband moved into a place
that only had two jimmy-proof deadbolts on the door, the first thing I did
was to add a latch.  It might not be great security if used alone - so
don't use it alone - but if someone is following you, you *want* to be able
to slam the door and have it locked so that they can't get in before you
have a chance to fumble with the deadbolts.  (They thought I was being
paranoid at the time; now they're glad I did it.)

[...]

> A freakish situation?  Sure.  But I'm going to make sure that my kids can
> get themselves out of the house with whatever locking scheme I end up with.

Forget about a silly situation where people were looking for them even
though they were home.  What if there was a fire?

Larry Margolis, MARGOLI@YKTVMV (Bitnet), margoli@watson.IBM.com (Internet)
From: ifbb657@ccwf.cc.utexas.edu (Douglas Floyd)
Newsgroups: alt.locksmithing
Subject: Lockset
Keywords: lockset deadbolt
Date: 4 Sep 92 17:47:42 GMT
Reply-To: ifbb657@ccwf.cc.utexas.edu (Douglas Floyd)
Distribution: usa
Organization: The University of Texas at Austin, Austin TX
Originator: ifbb657@doc.cc.utexas.edu

What is the most secure lock-in-the-knob and deadbolt
-- 
ifbb657@ccwf.cc.utexas.edu (Douglas R. Floyd)

MS-Windows NT:              Disclaimer:  I speak for
                            myself.
Better DOS than Windows,
Better Windows than DOS.
Newsgroups: alt.locksmithing,misc.consumers.house
From: cnmne@plex-1.ann-arbor.mi.us (Chris Ellinger)
Subject: Re: Multiple locks, same key.  yes/no?
Keywords: locks, keys
Organization: Plex-1, Michigan's Public Access Usenet Gateway  (Ann Arbor).
Date: Mon, 31 Aug 1992 17:18:16 GMT

In article <1992Aug30.223626.15518@ncsu.edu> hes@unity.ncsu.edu (Henry E. Schaffer) writes:
>In article <Btt5K1.IGM@hatch.socal.com> richg@hatch.socal.com (Rich Greenberg) writes:
>> ...
>>Given a typical suburban house with 2 locks on the front door (a key-in-knob
>>and a deadbolt), and the same on the back door,  what do you feel is the 
>>proper number of keys?
>>
>  My own opinion is that the convenience makes the KA approach very
>reasonable.  It may also cause a small increase in security by
>greatly decreasing the number of keys to be carried, and so perhaps
>decreases the chance of your keys being stolen.  For what it's worth,
>I have all of the key-in-knob and deadbolt locks in my home KA.
>


(stuff deleted)
 
I have all locks keyed alike *except* the front door key-in-knob.  This way 
we can give that key to a relative/visitor/contractor and still be able to 
lock the front door deadbolt for privacy.  When the visitor is expected, we 
leave the deadbolt unlocked.  When no visitor is expected, we can leave the
key-in-knob unlocked, lock the deadbolt, and carry only one key.
 
Chris Ellinger
From: tbutterf@ut-emx.uucp (Jeff Butterfield)
Newsgroups: alt.locksmithing
Subject: Re: Libraries - anti-theft systems
Date: 31 Aug 92 00:15:06 GMT
Organization: The University of Texas at Austin; Austin, Texas

Let's see how we can by-pass the ol' library systems.  I am not advocating
book theft (libraries can least afford it), but present this for informational
purposes.

The most common system is 3Ms tattle tape.  It is a magnetized strip that fits
either along the spine (of say a hardback book) or sandwiched between two pages
really close to the spine (on a paperback).  If you bend the covers of a hard
back in a backwards fashion and look down the spine you should be able to see
the strip (it is usually colored brown to "camo" it).  The safest way to defeat
this system is to remove the strip [tape demagnetisers aren't fool proof].  A
popsicle stick that has been whittled down sharp on one of the curved ends will
work great.  Just pry under it and dig ALL of it out.  You can put the strip in someone's backpack or flush it down a toilet.  Without the strip you can come
and go as you please with the book.

The second most popular system has a magnetic insert under the little card
jacket on the insider cover of the book.  It ALWAYS remains sensitized, but the
librarian "covers" this insert with a DUE DATE card that is somewhat thick and
has a built in shield.  You just check out a few legitimate books.....take them
home....remove the cards.....take them to the library....use them to take any
book you want.  Caveat: Reference books can't be "covered up"....the REFERENCE
USE ONLY stickers need to be cut out as they are also magnetic inserts.

To find out for sure what system you are on consider the following:

	The tattle tape system requires the librarian to slide the books
	across a demagnetiser.  This makes a "clunk" sound when the books
	are slid.  You will also find the strips in the spine.

	The other system uses thick colored DUE DATE cards.  The librarian
	doesn't do any desensitizing.  To double check....legitimately check
	the book out.....lift the DUE DATE card out of its little jacket [but
	not quite all the way out of the book]....then walk out.   It should
	"BEEP"....but you won't get busted since you really checked the book
	out.

If you know of any other systems please let us all know!!!


Xref: sparky alt.locksmithing:1557 alt.folklore.urban:22670
From: richg@hatch.socal.com (Rich Greenberg)
Newsgroups: alt.locksmithing,alt.folklore.urban
Subject: Re: The lady with 7 locks
Keywords: locks, keys
Date: 1 Sep 92 17:17:22 GMT
Organization: Hatch Usenet and E-mail.  Playa del Rey, CA

Tried to respond to this by mail, but my mailer can't figure out
how to get it there.

***** UNDELIVERABLE MAIL sent to toet.echo.tds.philips.nl!dolf, being returned by netcon!uucp *****
rmail: Error # 1 'Unknown system/user' encountered on system netcon

To: Dolf Grunbauer <netcon.smc.edu!toet.echo.tds.philips.nl!dolf>

> >		The "lady with 7 locks" story:
 
> Didn't you leave out the most obvious reason:
>   3) Why would a burglar lock the door when leaving the apartment ?
> 
> Sounds very wierd to me, to say the least.

Nowhere did the story say that the burglar re-locked the door after leaving.  

The point was that if say 4 of the 7 started out locked, and 3 not
locked,  the burglar would not know the 3 were not locked, and would
pick all 7, resulting in 3 now locked and the burglar unable to enter.
Of course this assumes that the burglar can't determine that a given
lock was already unlocked and his picking has locked it.
(IMHO this is unlikely if the burglar is good enough with locks to
be able to pick them in the first place.)

Weird?  Yes.  Urban Legend?  Probably.
-- 
                
Rich Greenberg - N6LRT - 310-649-0238 - richg@hatch.socal.com
From: stormoen@plains.NoDak.edu (Michael D. Stormoen)
Newsgroups: alt.locksmithing
Subject: Slide Locks
Date: 1 Sep 92 22:51:53 GMT
Organization: North Dakota Higher Education Computing Network

I've been helping people get into their cars when they lock themselves
out by using a slim jim.  I can get into quite a variety of vehicles, 
(although it takes a while- I'm not too good at it).

My problem is this:  I have to say, "I can't help you" to anyone who
has slide style locks.  I have only "pulled" the type that move up and
down.  If anyone has any information that might set me on the right
track, or if you think I should give up, please post your insight.
If you would prefer to e-mail me------> stormoen@plains.nodak.edu

Thanks in advance (and perhaps again later).

Newsgroups: alt.locksmithing
From: IQTI400@INDYCMS.IUPUI.EDU (macphil)
Subject: Best Lock
Organization: IUPUI
Date: Fri, 28 Aug 1992 02:15:34 GMT

In article <1992Aug27.224040.40539@watson.ibm.com>
Larry Margolis <margoli@watson.ibm.com> writes:
 
>> a big selection of Best locks...I think it's called "Best Lock" :)
 
>Did you ever try stopping in to make a purchase?
 
>(As far as I know, Best doesn't deal directly with the general public - you
>have to find a distributor that carries their stuff.)
 
Well, I have a couple of close friends who work there, including a college
teammate or two...so that's gotten me a couple of after-hours tours over
the last few years...
Newsgroups: alt.locksmithing
From: Larry Margolis <margoli@watson.ibm.com>
Subject: Re: How to rekey commercial lock?
Date: Fri, 28 Aug 1992 16:27:10 GMT
Distribution: usa
Reply-To: margoli@watson.ibm.com
Disclaimer: This posting represents the poster's views, not necessarily those of IBM
Organization: The Village Waterbed

In  <1992Aug28.142215.16427@Arco.COM>  ericc@Arco.COM (Chang Eric(214)754-3562) writes:
> It does not look
> like a residential deadbolt at all (which I am familiar with).  There are 3
> screws on the jamb section, and none on the inside face.  Is this lock easy
> to remove and rekey?  How is it done?  Thanks in advance.     Eric

See my post from a few days ago which described how to remove a mortice
cylinder.

Larry Margolis, MARGOLI@YKTVMV (Bitnet), margoli@watson.IBM.com (Internet)
Newsgroups: alt.locksmithing
From: tracker@wpi.WPI.EDU (William L Schongar)
Subject: Re: Libraries - anti-theft systems
Organization: Worcester Polytechnic Institute
Date: Sun, 30 Aug 1992 16:44:50 GMT

g89s9141@giraffe.ru.ac.za (MR K SMITH) writes:

>The talk of a magneticaly encoded lock triggered a persistent question of 
>mine.  In our univ. library there is a security system to prevent books 
>being removed without being first, desensitised by the librarians.  
>
>My initial guess was a magnetic system, ie include some highly magnetised 
>pin in the spine of the book.  So far I have not found any objects in the 
>spines.  It also seems that very narow journal can also be made to trigger 
>the alarm system when not checked out.
>
>Any ideas?

 While I'm not sure of the specific tech details, most systems use a
feedback principle to set off the alarms. The 'beeper', the part
attached to whatever isn't supposed to be removed, is a magnetically
sensitive piece of metal which causes the signal passing through the
detector to bounce back to its receiver, setting off the alarm. It's
not a metal detector, so keys and whatnot don't set it off.

 The 'beeper' can be in any form, but two of the most common are thin
small (1-2mm x 6mm) metal strips, or a paper with metal backing. The
former is normally in the spines, easy enough to remove, while the
latter is normally embedded in a highly adhesive bookplate/card
holder, making it quite obvious if you remove it. The latter system is
the more common in stores, where they embed the back of the price tag
with the small metal mazes.

 A 'fun' thing to do with the metal strips is to remove one, and plant
it on someone you don't care for. Great delaying tactic.

-Tracker, Amateur at large.
From: perry@drycas.club.cc.cmu.edu
Newsgroups: alt.locksmithing
Subject: Re: The lady with 7 locks
Date: 4 Sep 92 17:46:09 GMT
Organization: Carnegie Mellon Computer Club



	To determine if the door is locked, put a strong magnet on the
lock.  Sprinkle metal shavings near the door sill where the bolt would
be if the lock is in the locked position.  If the metal shavings stick
to the sill, the bolt is out (and lock is locked).  If the lock is unlocked,
the bolt will be inside the lock, and no metal shavings will stick to the
sill.
Newsgroups: alt.locksmithing
From: sxjwg@orca.alaska.edu
Subject: Getting started - AGAIN!
Organization: University of Alaska
Date: Thu, 3 Sep 1992 02:28:00 GMT

I have a question for all you locksmiths.  I used to help my dad (who is a
very good locksmith by the way) when he went out on jobs.  I now live in Alaska
and he is still in Mississippi.  Is there any books, mail courses, etc. that
I can get my hands on to continue what my dad started.

-- 

********************************************************************************
    UNIVERSITY OF ALASKA - FAIRBANKS, UNIVERSITY OF ALASKA COMPUTER NETWORK
                   James W. (Jim) Grimes, SXJWG@ORCA.ALASKA.EDU
THIRD ANNUAL FARTHEST NORTH COUNTRY WESTERN DANCE FESTIVAL-MARCH 5, 6 & 7, 1993
  Call (907) 479-4282 or write FNCWDF, PO Box 82683, Fairbanks, AK 99708-2683
********************************************************************************
Newsgroups: alt.locksmithing
From: richard@sfu.ca (Richard Chycoski)
Subject: Re: Libraries - anti-theft systems
Reply-To: richard@sfu.ca
Organization: Simon Fraser University, Burnaby, B.C., Canada
Date: Fri, 4 Sep 1992 07:33:08 GMT

In article <1992Sep2.165007.20015@pt.com> kng@pt.com (Ken Gravenstede) writes:
> I really have to set the record straight for most of the theft alarms found
> in libraries, record stores (or CD stores now) etc.  None that I know of are
> based on a magnetic strip.  However, what most (or maybe all) are based on
> is a radio transmitter.
>...
> If someone has actual firsthand knowledge of a magnetic based system I'd 
> like to hear about it since I currently know of none.

Sorry, but there really are (at least) two different technologies used for
library security systems, and one of them uses magnetic strips. I have had
personal experience with the use of the magnetic strip units. Any library
that has a degausser at the desk to 'deactivate' the books is using a
magnetic system... (Some libraries choose not to deactivate the books,
requiring you to pass them around the barrier, but this can be true for
either the magnetic or RF schemes.)

- Richard Chycoski
From: lance@wolves.uucp (Lance Brown)
Newsgroups: alt.locksmithing
Subject: Re: Libraries - anti-theft systems
Date: 30 Aug 92 02:24:11 GMT
Organization: Wolves Den Unix
X-Md4-Signature: 8eb230d73daaca7265365f62a44eb268

Well, the library at my old school used VERY thin ~1/8 inch wide magnetic
strips that they "magically" inserted into the bindings of books and
journals.  They even somehow managed to get these boogers in the 
"perfect bound" journals without apparent damage.

lance