HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: edf@amtfocus.amt.gss.mot.com (Ed Federmeyer)
Newsgroups: rec.autos
Subject: Last of the Dodge Daytona???
Date: 28 Jan 93 13:37:02 GMT
Organization: Motorola, Inc.  GSS/AMT,  Arlington Heights, IL

Yesterday I saw a brief (one paragraph) blurb in the newspaper that said that
Feb, 1993 would see the last production runs of Dodge Daytonas, and that
the Daytona name will be used on a different (larger) car from Dodge.

Is there any info on what the new replacement for the Daytona will look like?
Or cost?  Or how it will be equipped?  Will it be one of the new "LH" cars
like the Eagle Vision/Dodge Intrepid/Chrystler Concorde?

I was about to buy a Daytona ES this month (Feb 1993!) and I wonder:

1.  Will I get a better deal on a "discontinued" model?

2.  Will I have trouble getting it serviced in 5 years?

3.  Should I wait until the new replacement is available?

I'd appreciate comments, and especially pointers to trade mags that have
articles on the up-and-coming Daytona replacement.  (If the exist)

Ed Federmeyer (edf@amtfocus.amt.gss.mot.com)
--
Ed Federmeyer,  Motorola Inc.           Internet:  Ed_Federmeyer@email.mot.com
General Systems Sector                  UUCP:      ...!mcdchg!amtfocus!edf
Advanced Manufacturing Technology       Voice:     +1-708-632-6499
From: scott@psy.uwa.oz.au (Scott Fisher)
Newsgroups: rec.autos
Subject: Re: What's Wrong with American Cars?
Date: 26 Jan 1993 02:18:04 GMT
Organization: The University of Western Australia
NNTP-Posting-Host: wapsy.psy.uwa.oz.au

What's wrong?!  Apart from a very few famous sports cars they look UGLY...
Reeeeaaallll ugly....infact soooo incredibly ugly I can't bring myself to 
think about them ;-)

Before I get flame-grilled to charcoal I must say that Australian 
cars are (well I cant say ugly as US cars but) so BORING...so boring as
to .... zzzzzZZZZzzzzzz

I think the Europeans have got the styling fairly right.

Scott...Yawn
_______________________________________________________________________________
Scott Fisher [scott@psy.uwa.oz.au]  PH: Aus [61] Perth (09) Local (380 3272).                
                                                             _--_|\       N
Department of Psychology                                    /      \    W + E
University of Western Australia.      Perth [32S, 116E]-->  *_.--._/      S
Nedlands, 6009.  PERTH, W.A.                                      v       

Joy is a Jaguar XJ6 with a flat battery, a blown oil seal and an unsympathetic 
wife, 9km outside of a small remote town, 3:15am on a cold wet winters morning.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: pem@mahogany25.cray.com (Paul Martin)
Newsgroups: rec.autos
Subject: Is this the correct Newsgroup for advice?
Keywords: I need some advice about buying sporty wheels/rims,
Date: 27 Jan 93 20:21:40 GMT
Organization: Cray Research, Inc.
Originator: pem@mahogany25


"body kits" and other similar items for an 87 Honda Accord.  
A close relative of mine is about to spend a lot of money on 
such articles, and I would like some advice in general, and 
in specific about some of what he intends to get by catalogue! 
   All I want to know now is if this is the best news group
to post such questions to, or would  rec.autos.tech or some 
other one be better? 
   Post to this newsgroup or email to me: pem@mahogany.cray.com
   Thanks very much. 
   Paul Martin 
Newsgroups: rec.autos
From: rjwade@rainbow.ecn.purdue.edu (Robert J. Wade)
Subject: Re: slick 50
Organization: Purdue University Engineering Computer Network
Distribution: na
Date: Mon, 25 Jan 1993 14:59:28 GMT

In article <C1B9LD.n1C@ecf.toronto.edu> wisznie@ecf.toronto.edu (WISZNIEWSKI SEBASTIAN) writes:
> Can anyone tell me if there are better products on the market than Slick 50?
> I'm thinking of using it, but a lot of people tell me that it isn't
> really that good.
>
> Any comments are welcome.
>     Sebastian Wiszniewski  (9T5)   

oh noooooooooooo, the slick50 thread is back!!!!!!!!!
just change your oil and filter every 3000 miles/3 months and relax.

Newsgroups: rec.autos
From: mchaffee@ux4.cso.uiuc.edu (Real Life?!?! HA!!)
Subject: Re: Worst Car Award
Organization: University of Illinois at Urbana
Date: Mon, 25 Jan 1993 22:57:21 GMT

zenith89@bcarh1eb.bnr.ca (Chris VanFleet) writes:

>In article <krothman.727889636@chaos.cs.brandeis.edu> krothman@chaos.cs.brandeis.edu (Ken Rothman) writes:
>>zorro@picasso.ocis.temple.edu (John Grabowski) writes:
>>>I'd like to conduct an informal poll here: what do the gentle readers of this
>>>group think is the WORST car being made today???  (And why?)  It must be a 
>>>car still being manufactured, so a 1975 Dodge Dart doesn't count.  :-)
>>
>>My least favorite car these days has got to be the Chevy Caprice
>>(and the Buick Roadmaster and the Cadillac Fleetwood)
>>The design is just completely IRRESPONSIBLE.
>                               ^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>Funny, these are my favourites. To each his own.... but, how can
>you call these cars IRRESPONSIBLE (in capital letters?!)???? Is
>this some kind of dig at their fuel consumption? 

I think what he meant was that the car is such a visual assault (You are in a
very very very very very small minority in liking the Caprice) that it con-
stitutes irresponsibility to the customers, or perhaps to the GM tradition
of selling cars that people would WANT to buy.....


----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Michael T. Chaffee       | mchaffee@ux4.cso.uiuc.edu  |  ______    
"It has been said - mostly by illiterates and conserv-|  \    /   HATE
atives - that the belief in God is at the base of the |   \  /  is not a
American system, and that the United States is a prod-|    \/  FAMILY VALUE
uct of Christian piety."  -  Leonard Peikoff          |
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Newsgroups: rec.autos
From: pebi@aem.umn.edu (Peter A. Bidian)
Subject: Re: Worst Car Award
Organization: University of Minnesota
Date: Wed, 27 Jan 1993 20:16:49 GMT

tut@cairo.Eng.Sun.COM (Bill "Bill" Tuthill) writes:

>c23st@kocrsv01.delcoelect.com (Spiros Triantafyllopoulos) writes:
>>
>>Some car magazine I checked during lunch actually discussed the ugliest
>>car ever made, and I think the winner (by leaps & bounds) was a
>>French car, I think a Renault 6.  Or, any Citroen (i.e. 2CV to CX)

>French cars have a totally different aesthetic, I don't think it's fair
>to compare them if you don't speak fluent French and enjoy dry red wine.
>Also, the 2CV is a Renault, not a Citroen.

NO! The 2CV (or duck how it's called in german speeking countries) is 
a Citroen. 

Peter

Newsgroups: rec.autos
From: ken@wybbs.mi.org (Ken Jongsma)
Newsgroups: rec.autos
Subject: Re: Is it OK to wash off the engine?
Date: 24 Jan 93 23:10:24 GMT
Reply-To: jongsma@benzie.si.com
Organization: Smiths Industries

derich@netcom.com (Scott A. Steinbrink) writes:

>In my heartful opinion, you should not wash the engine at all,
>but steam it.  Water will cause rust, but steam wouldn't.

Excuse me?????????? Just what exactly is the chemical difference
between water and steam that causes you to make this pronouncement
to tens of thousands of readers?

This is going to be good. I hope you have your flame proof undies on.
You'll need them...


-- 
Ken Jongsma                                     jongsma@benzie.si.com
Smiths Industries                                    ken@wybbs.mi.org 
Grand Rapids, Michigan                      73115.1041@compuserve.com 
Newsgroups: rec.autos
From: hellmann@cs.scarolina.edu (Doug Hellmann)
Subject: Re: Q: how do i know if i need a new catalytic converter?
Organization: USC  Department of Computer Science
Date: 26 Jan 93 04:03:01 GMT

DEVILBISS@OCTAVE.LARC.NASA.GOV (Dave) writes:

> co940@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Nicholas E. Damato) writes:

>> Hi, my milage has dropped, and the car seems sluggish. it has
>>about 70,000 mi, i've looked at a lot of things, but i'm
>>wondering how i can tell if the catalytic is fried.
>>thank you for the info.
>>n.e.d.

>When the catalytic converter gave up the ghost in my JEEP, the symptoms were . . . 

>1.  Oil  & lots of it in the aircleaner. (due to exhaust valve blow by)
>2.  Lack of power.
>3.  It would rattle due to loose bits & peices inside.
>4.  The exhaust was excessively hot.  Also, the converter itself will get rather hot.

>Good luck . . . Dave

Also you might want to hold your hand over the end of the tailpipe when
the car is running.  If you don't feel much air coming out, your
converter is probably clogged.  Also, they say to smell the exhaust and
if it smells like sulfur, some sort of terrible chemical reaction has
taken place inside the converter and it should be replaced.  

I understand that ethanol (or is it methanol?), well, whichever they add
to the gas now, is supposed to clear out converters.

-Samantha
From: tvervaek@col.hp.com (Tom Vervaeke)
Newsgroups: rec.autos
Subject: Re: 4WD's
Date: 26 Jan 93 16:58:15 GMT
Article-I.D.: hp-col.1k3qj7INN42b
Distribution: usa
Organization: HP Colorado Springs Division
NNTP-Posting-Host: itchub21.cs.itc.hp.com


Never pay invoice! Even here in Colorado where 4wd's aren't cheap no one
pays invoice. Do some homework. Get a car price book that has the costs
for: dealer cost, retail price, best price. Add up all the options you
are getting and start at either the best price (in the book) or $300
over the dealer cost.  Dealers want to move cars!


( ___ )------------------------------------------------------------( ___ )
 | / | Tom Vervaeke           Email:tom_vervaeke@hp0800.desk.hp.com | \ |
 | / | Technology Specialist  Snail: 1900 Garden of the Gods Rd.    | \ |
 | / | Hewlett Packard Co.           Colorado Springs, CO 80901     | \ |
 | / | Colorado Springs, CO   Voice    : 719-590-2133               | \ |
 | / | USA                    Fax      : 719-590-2117               | \ |
 | / |--------------------------------------------------------------| \ |
 | / | Quote of the week...                                         | \ |
 |___|           Quote deleted do to lack of creativity !!!         |___|
(_____)------------------------------------------------------------(_____)
   ^                                                                  ^
Newsgroups: rec.autos
From: mperlman@nyx.cs.du.edu (Marshal "Airborne" Perlman)
Subject: Re: Lexus Commericals
Organization: University of Denver, Dept. of Math & Comp. Sci.
Date: Sat, 23 Jan 93 19:17:28 GMT

For a while Infiniti actually advertised their car... I love that car, and 
when I was living at home, I drove it as much as I could... don't know why
they don't sell as much as the Lexus... as the Infiniti is a better car..
like you said.. it came down to advertising. You have to hand it to Lexus
on that... but anyhow:

Remember this Infiniti commerical?

A guy is driving a Q (or Q45 for you non Infiniti folk) and he has the sunroof
open, and looks over at some kid in a old mustang, then passes the guy in the
mustang... don't ask me why I liked it, I just did.

Another favorite of mine was the Camaro Z28 commercial where they made it seem
like dirving the camaro was similar to being on a carrier deck.. that was neat
too...

Just my $.02,

Marshal
Bonneville SSE
--
  |o| Marshal Perlman                       Internet: perlman@cs.fit.edu |o|
  |o| Florida Institute of Technology                        IRC: Squawk |o|
  |o| Melbourne, Florida                             Private Pilot, ASEL |o|
  |o| 407/768-8000 x8435                      Goodyear Blimp Club Member |o|
From: dwsmall@miavx1.acs.muohio.edu (Derek 'Enzo' Small)
Newsgroups: rec.autos
Subject: Re: slick 50
Date: 25 Jan 93 05:34:59 GMT
Article-I.D.: miavx1.1993Jan25.103459.15250
Distribution: na
Organization: Miami University Academic Computer Service"

>  Can anyone tell me if there are better products on the market than Slick 50?
>  I'm thinking of using it, but a lot of people tell me that it isn't
>  really that good.

They're back.....!!!!!

-- 
*******************************************************************************
* Derek "Enzo" Small                   [san.dwsmall]@miavx1.acs.muohio.edu    *
*                                      Miami University, Oxford, Ohio 45056   *
*******************************************************************************
*                                                                             *
*  " Work hard but know your limitations.  Your dog can do things that would  *
*    break you neck."                                                         *
*				Johnny Carson				      *
*									      *
*******************************************************************************
Newsgroups: rec.autos
From: tedebear@leland.Stanford.EDU (Theodore Chen)
Subject: Re: Why is US engine technology so retrograde?
Organization: DSG, Stanford University, CA 94305, USA
Date: Fri, 22 Jan 93 22:10:59 GMT

In article <IfLw32G00ioW8Ns6J6@andrew.cmu.edu> jyri+@CMU.EDU (Jyri Virkki) writes:
>Large, torqey (sp?) engines feel very different from small high
>revving engines. You pick whichever you like the most. Me, I think big
>engines are good for trucks and luxury cars, neither of which I have
>any interest in. For sport[y|s] cars, like your example above, a large
>engine would be disgusting. Large engines tend to be sluggish and low
>revving, thus no fun at all on a sports car.

oh, really.  you haven't driven a corvette LT1 lately, have you?
hair-trigger throttle response at any engine speed.  compare that
to the 300ZX turbo, which needs to see 4 grand to produce any kind
of power.

-teddy
Newsgroups: rec.autos
From: mark@wdcwdc.sps.mot.com (Mark Shaw)
Subject: Re: elderly drivers
Organization: Motorola Western MCU Design Center, Chandler Arizona
Date: Thu, 21 Jan 1993 18:15:55 GMT

In article <1993Jan20.104838.15163@miavx1.acs.muohio.edu>, dwsmall@miavx1.acs.muohio.edu (Derek 'Enzo' Small) writes:
|> First off it isn't fair to rip on a driver based solely on his/her age.  The

This isn't an issue of discrimination, it's a simple issue of degraded driver skills
and abilities.  Numerous studies have shown a dramatic increase in accidents/mile for
elderly drivers (rate is similar to teens).  Most of this is tracked back to such things
as reduced hearing, limited peripheral vision, mental confusion (particularily at
intersections) and dimmer vision at night.   All these factors are related to age.

What the general public needs to come to grips with is that making it possible for
an elderly driver to still drive to the grocery on their own is not really doing
them a service.  With the cost of owning a car going up each year, the real
solution should be to find ways to give the elderly the same mobility at a reduced
cost with more safety.

But as long as the public has this pre-occupation with driving a car as being some
sort of test of manhood or personal worth, I doubt if anything can be done to improve
the situation.

Mark
Newsgroups: rec.autos
Subject: Re: Worst Car Award
From: james@koko.csustan.edu (Jonas Grumpy)
Date: Wed, 27 Jan 93 04:06:04 GMT
Organization: CSU Stanislaus


  Tisk Tisk Tisk how soon we forget...
	I can't beleive you people have left out one of the ugliest
	cars in history!
			CONSULIER!! AAAAAAAAAAAAAAYUGHCKPHOOEY

                      THE turbo charged aerodynamic toilet.
-- 
C MYSIG  ASIG4U 1RADSIG 2BADSIG SIG U 2     U R SIG   1SIGDOG    ADOTSIG
 				The above advice is not to be taken seriously!

Organization: Masters student, Information Networking Institute, Carnegie Mellon, Pittsburgh, PA
Newsgroups: rec.autos
Date: Mon, 25 Jan 1993 17:15:59 -0500 
From: Jyri Virkki <jyri+@CMU.EDU>
Subject: Re: Why is US engine technology so retrograde?
	<1993Jan22.221059.11074@leland.Stanford.EDU>

tedebear@leland.Stanford.EDU (Theodore Chen) writes:
> 
> oh, really.  you haven't driven a corvette LT1 lately, have you?
> hair-trigger throttle response at any engine speed.  compare that
> to the 300ZX turbo, which needs to see 4 grand to produce any kind
> of power.

You seem to imply that 4Krpm is high? Like I said, small and large
engines tend to have different characteristics. If you want your power
at very low revs, say, <5Krpm, get a large engine with lots of torque
at low rpms. Me, I don't particularly care if the engine makes a lot
of power at idle because if I'm racing, the tach will surely stay in
the 5000+ range. 

--
Jyri J. Virkki | DoD#561 | jyri+@cmu.edu | Carnegie Mellon University | MSINI

Newsgroups: rec.autos
From: cka52397@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (Slartibartfast)
Subject: Re: Lexus SC 400 price
Organization: University of Illinois at Urbana
Date: Thu, 21 Jan 1993 20:07:38 GMT

In article <1993Jan21.134910.17346@zellweger.ch> bisc@zellweger.CH (Thomas K. Bischoff) writes:
>
>What is the street price of a new Lexus SC 400 in the USA or Canada.
>
>This car is not available here in switzerland and I would like to import
>one .
>-- 
>Thomas K. Bischoff    Net: bit@ten.ch,bisc@zellweger.ch 
>***** Minds, like parachutes, only function when open.
>
	Close to $40K US.  

-- 
 Chintan Amin  The University of Illinois, Urbana Champaign  c-amin1@uiuc.edu
  "Public speaking is very easy!" <-- Quayle 10/88  ;-)
  "Unfortunately, the people of Louisiana are not racists" <-- Quayle, 10/12/90
NeXTMail Accepted at cka52397@sumter.cso.uiuc.edu  Go Illini Holiday Bowl 1992
From: ebergman@phaedrus.East.Sun.COM (Eric Bergman)
Newsgroups: rec.autos
Subject: Re: yet another consumer reports article (
Date: 25 Jan 1993 23:31:49 GMT
Organization: Sun Microsystems Inc. - BDC
Distribution: world
Reply-To: ebergman@phaedrus.East.Sun.COM
NNTP-Posting-Host: phaedrus.east.sun.com
Summary: statistics is a science
Keywords: consumer reports statistics

> IF you have 10,000 people responding about problems with their Ford
> Ranger  and 50,000 about problems with their Ford Taurus, patterns
> will show up. 

Here is a story about why sample bias is important,
REGARDLESS OF THE SIZE OF THE SAMPLE:

Literary Digest did a telephone survey of Readers in 1936.
They asked for whom readers were intending to vote, and on the
basis of the huge response (over 100,000 people responded!), 
they predicted that Roosevelt would lose in a landslide.  
(For you young folks -- Roosevelt won in a landslide).

You are right to say that "patterns will show up", but you
are wrong to think that we can draw valid conclusions from
those patterns.  

Your email ends with the note "Back off man, I'm a Scientist!",
which I think is great, but really, you should know that there
are people who get PhD's studying how to do valid survey research.
Doing it RIGHT is a science.  It is NOT so simple as to say 
"there are patterns".   That is no more science than it is to
for an Astrologer to say that there are patterns in the stars. 

> And, both with have groups of people who respond
> because they love or hate their machine.

True.  But you can't know what factors will cause people to
respond differentially.  For example, in the poll I cited above,
the reason that Roosevelt did so poorly is that Readers of the
Literary Digest who *had phones* were more likely to be Republicans,
because phones were still relatively expensive in 1936.

For all we know, readers of Consumer Reports are highly likely to
have families -- perhaps in the large samples, the people who
drive the Taurus treat it with greater care than those who drive
an Eclipse, for example.  Who *knows*.  The point is, there are
too many factors that could cause "the patterns" that you speak
of to be utterly meaningless.

The useful information, I think, is not comparative, but descriptive.
Consumer Reports describes cars.  If they use the same criteria, then
comparing the qualitative info in the descriptions is useful.
From: rizvi@ee.ualberta.ca (Syed Rizvi)
Newsgroups: rec.autos
Subject: test
Summary: test
Date: 26 Jan 93 19:50:48 GMT
Organization: University Of Alberta, Edmonton Canada


 testing 1 2 3, eh?

-- 
Syed Rizvi                              rizvi@ee.ualberta.ca
Electrical Engineering                  
University of Alberta 238 Civil Elect   Voice (403)492-2954
Edmonton, Alberta Canada                Fax   (403)492-1811
Newsgroups: rec.autos
From: kelley@cwis.unomaha.edu (Sean Kelley)
Newsgroups: rec.autos
Subject: Re: How to clean you engine?
Date: 28 Jan 93 13:31:59 GMT
Organization: University of Nebraska at Omaha

rjwade@rainbow.ecn.purdue.edu (Robert J. Wade) writes:

>In article <C1Iuxq.Avy@ccu.umanitoba.ca> cshafai@eeserv.ee.umanitoba.ca (Cyrus Shafai) writes:
>>How do you clean your engine?  Can you use water and mild soap like you
>>use for the body of the car?  Is there a danger of shorting some of the
>>electrical systems?
>>
>>Or should you just rub it/the hoses, etc. with a damp cloth?
>>I am current just rubbing dirty areas with a damp cloth.
>>
>uh...i take off all the hoses and belts and run them thru the washer on 'hot'
>and then wax them with turtlewax and then soak them in a vat of armor-all...
>then i put them back on.  

But hen again, i like to go to the local touchless car wash, diassemble
my engine, place it on the hood of the car and send it through a couple
times...cleansx it up real well....

but really, if youwant to clean your engine...you can go to a place such
that has touchless car washing(i mean a buisness whose main buisness is
car washing, not a gas station) and a lot of them have a steam cleaning
service that they offer for about 20-25 dollars...or you can go out to k
mart or some car store and buy some engine degreaser and clean you
engine as it says on the back of the can...but i would not use armoral
on any of the hoses unless you like replace them a lot...the armoral
will dry out your hoses and then you get into trouble...
--
	    ________________-----------------_____________
            \                                            /
             \  SEAN KELLEY    KELLEY@CWIS.UNOMAHA.EDU  / 
              ------------------------------------------
From: scott@psy.uwa.oz.au (Scott Fisher)
Newsgroups: rec.autos
Subject: Re: Worst Car Award
Date: 26 Jan 1993 02:22:03 GMT
Organization: The University of Western Australia
NNTP-Posting-Host: wapsy.psy.uwa.oz.au

zorro@picasso.ocis.temple.edu (John Grabowski) writes:


>I'd like to conduct an informal poll here: what do the gentle readers of this
>group think is the WORST car being made today???  (And why?)  

The Jaguar XJ40

Why?  Looks like something you would expect to see come out of Detroit ;-)
The XJ6 (I, II and III) body styling was superb.  It's a travesty :-(  

_______________________________________________________________________________
Scott Fisher [scott@psy.uwa.oz.au]  PH: Aus [61] Perth (09) Local (380 3272).                
                                                             _--_|\       N
Department of Psychology                                    /      \    W + E
University of Western Australia.      Perth [32S, 116E]-->  *_.--._/      S
Nedlands, 6009.  PERTH, W.A.                                      v       

Joy is a Jaguar XJ6 with a flat battery, a blown oil seal and an unsympathetic 
wife, 9km outside of a small remote town, 3:15am on a cold wet winters morning.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Newsgroups: rec.autos
From: wood@siemens.com (Jim Wood)
Subject: Where is the new Toyota Supra?
Organization: Siemens Corporate Research, Princeton (Plainsboro), NJ
Date: Mon, 25 Jan 1993 14:38:38 GMT

The subject heading asks it all.  I have been looking for this
car to debut for quite some time, expecting it in January of
this year.  Where is it?


Newsgroups: rec.autos