HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: tarkkone@klaava.Helsinki.FI (Lauri Tarkkonen)
Newsgroups: rec.boats
Subject: Re: Full length head sail battens ( was: Tuff Luff...)
Date: 10 Nov 92 11:51:16 GMT
Organization: University of Helsinki

In <1992Nov10.074234.15735@abo.fi> AKILPINEN@finabo.abo.fi (Antti Kilpinen, IAMSR) writes:

>In <1992Nov10.014200.22963@klaava.Helsinki.FI> tarkkone@klaava.Helsinki.FI writes:

>> In <1992Nov9.125516.8324@das.harvard.edu> bloxham@geophysics.harvard.edu (Jeremy Bloxham) writes:
>You seem to have lots of long battens lying around in your boat. Where do you
>stow them? How do you usually pack the full battened head sails while in
>anchorage?. (Just curious.)


The selftacker I usually carry, is always hanked on, and when not in
use, it is in a cover on hte foredeck, if some other sail is set, I leave
the workin jib on hte foredec.

The other two sails with full lenght battens are stored in the forepeak
with under the shelves and they do not take too much room from the people.
The longest battens are removed, one from the heavy one and two from the
120 per cent genoa, so I have three loose battens. They are in the fore-
peak, just under the deck in a U-shaped curve. Most of the people casually
visiting the forepeak do not even notice them.
>> 
>> If one makes a roller reefing headsail, it must be very heavy to withstand
>> the stress of heavy winds, then it cannot be good in light winds. So far
>> I have seen very few sails that have acceptable shape when rolled. My sails
>> are most of the time acceptable (at least to me).                  
>> 

>I don't fully agree. I have seen many sails that have acceptable shape when 
>rolled. My 120% furling genoa is most of the time acceptable, also when 
>rolled. The sail change is easier with hanks, but when cruising, I  have 
>not needed to change the headsail underway- thanks to the furling genoa. 

In winds under 7 knots apparent I like to use a much lighter sail and
the 170% lighter is much more sail than the 120%.  If you roll more than
half of the 120% sail to get to the size of my heavy full batten jib,
the shape of the saill cannot be very good, and if it is heavy enough
to withstand the forces of that wind it is too heavy to be used in winds
suitable for 120%.  Besides I and my crew just love the selftackers.
So we feel it makes sense to change the sail once and save the effort
on the next 20 tacks.

>There seems to be several basic solutions to the head sails problematics. If
>well implemented they all will serve well. The problem is that we see too many
>badly implemented/maintained/used solutions. 

I agree with this, but still I am positive that I get more versatility,
and are better suited for different weathers with mine system than if
I had spent all the money on furling gear and a roller genoa. 

>-antti kilpinen

- Lauri Tarkkonen
Newsgroups: rec.boats
From: mgm@metaflow.com (Gary A. Gibson)
Subject: Re: knotmeter paddlewheel location?
Organization: Metaflow Technologies Inc.
Date: Wed, 11 Nov 1992 01:04:35 GMT

  This knotmeter paddlewheel location thread has me wondering where I should
place one on my power boat.  I intend to install one at the next haul-out
in a month or so.

  Does it make a difference where the paddlewheel is located on a deep-v
power boat (i.e. without a keel) other than being aft far enough that
it remains in the water and foreward of the props ?  Does it need to be
on the centerline ?

-- 


       _                       Gary Gibson
       |_                       PRYORITY I
       | \                 Metaflow Technologies, Inc.
       |__\                4250 Executive Square, Suite 300
       /___\_____          La Jolla, CA 92037
  ____/         /          Voice:  (619) 452-6608 x231
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~        FAX:    (619) 452-0401
E-mail: mgm%metaflow@uunet.uu.net or mgm@metaflow.com
From: tomm@voodoo.boeing.com (Tom Mackey)
Newsgroups: rec.boats
Subject: knotmeter paddlewheel location?
Date: 9 Nov 92 17:30:55 GMT
Organization: Boeing Graphics project, Bellevue WA


Looking for the net.wisdom again...

I found a great deal on an unused knotmeter recently ($40!) and would
like to install it in my Freedom 21.  This boat has a fin keel, and
the hull shape is similar to the J22 and J24.  The sender for the meter
is one of those through hull fittings with a little paddle wheel.  So
where is the best place to put it?  In going back over some posts I
saved, there is some indication that if I place it off center, it will
read differently on opposite tacks, and if I put it too near the keel
it will be affected by the hydrodynamic forces of the water flowing
around the keel, and if I put it somewhere hard to access from the
inside and there is a problem I will quickly own a submarine.  My
current choices are on centerline either in front of the keel, or else
behind the keel as far back as I can get it, say a foot or so in front
of the transom.  The forward location is easier to get to from inside,
but lower in the boat and therefore potentially a more serious problem
if it should spring a leak.  The rear location is very difficult to get
to from inside, but could be reached from over the transom in an emergency
and is a flatter surface to work on.  I'd like to install it in a location
that will provide accurate readings, but will weigh that against safety
concerns.  Opinions?  Recommendations?  (I'm having a hard time
contemplating *deliberately* cutting a hole in my hull! %^)

Thanks,

-- 
Tom Mackey       (206) 865-6575        tomm@voodoo.boeing.com
Boeing Computer Services         ....uunet!bcstec!voodoo!tomm
M/S 7K-20,     P.O. Box 24346,     Seattle, WA     98124-0346
Newsgroups: rec.boats
From: chm@athena.mit.edu (Charles H Mazel)
Subject: Re: Speaking navigation devices
Organization: Massachusetts Institute of Technology
Date: Fri, 13 Nov 1992 14:44:45 GMT

There used to be a product called Depth Talker that did just that --
spoke out the depth in a synthesized voice.  I found it useful when
coming to anchor when short-handed, as it was just one less thing you
had to pay visual attention to.  I don't know whether it is still on
the market.


Charlie Mazel

Newsgroups: rec.boats
From: dlucy@sandr.COM (Doug Lucy)
Subject: Re: computers
Organization: S&R Software, Inc.
Date: Mon, 09 Nov 1992 01:22:54 GMT

In article <sgXVTB1w165w@sound.cts.com>
  markr@sound.cts.com (Mark B. Reinhold) writes:

>Does anyone have any experience with a normal pc on a boat?
>
>I am trying to put a pc and a hp laser printer on a 60 ft sportfisher.
>It would be exposed to the salt air, but not directly to any water.
>
>It has a maxtor harddrive which is a tank, but am wondering if a pc will
>survive the salt air.

Prolonged exposure to the salt air MAY corrode the contacts in any of
the connectors in the machine: disk drive cables, power cables, bus
connectors, etc.

I would think you main concern would be power. Do you have a
generator? How "clean" is the power it produces? How many watts does
oit make? Can you use a laptop with LCD screen and a non-heat/fusion
printer like a DeskJet instead?

-- 
| Doug Lucy             | Although I am responsible for my  |
| S&R Software, Inc     | opinions, I'm not responsible for |
| dlucy@sandr.COM       | my poor spelling.                 |
Newsgroups: rec.boats
From: webb@uhunix.uhcc.Hawaii.Edu (Thomas SM Webb)
Subject: Re: Tuff Luff and other headstay foils
Organization: University of Hawaii
Date: Fri, 13 Nov 1992 03:46:33 GMT

In article <1992Nov9.125516.8324@das.harvard.edu> bloxham@geophysics.harvard.edu writes:
>In article 871@klaava.Helsinki.FI, tarkkone@klaava.Helsinki.FI (Lauri Tarkkonen) writes:
>>
>>>[David Zielke asks about the relative merits of hanks and headfoils]
>>
>>If you want my opinion it is in short: Try to awoid the foil by any means.
>>
>>As said it will give you unnecessary expenses.
>>
>>I claim that mote races are lost than won by headfoils. [...]
>>
>>- Lauri Tarkkonen
>
>I seriously doubt that more races are lost than won by headfoils.[...]
>the most significant developments in sail handling gear for racing boats
>in the last few decades.
>
>A great compromise for the cruiser/racer is the Harken roller furling
>system with the split drum[...]
>I used this system on my
>boat for two seasons before switching to a Tuff Luff (to save a few
>pounds aloft).
>
>Jeremy


Well, let me add a third point of view to this argument;  headfoils
may be advantageous on larger boats in longish races but tend to be
a hinderence when sailing short courses in boats that are picky about
crew distrabution.  Ok, even as hypothises go the former is rather
speculative but here is why I suspect it may have a bit of merit:
Back in 1983 when I was racing j24's seriously I went to the North
Americans, mid-winters, and countless other local and semi-local
events, and there was, as best as I can recall, not a single J in the
fleet that didn't have a head-foil.  THese days I don't see so much of
the best of the class, but as nearly as I can make out nobody is using
foils on J's anymore.  The changeover supprised me a bit since it
happened while I was out of the loop, but the word that I got was that
hanks got the sail up and down faster and kept the crew in the middle
of the boat where they belong.  Makes sense to me, especially on a J24
where the genny is the correct head-sail 95% of the time.  I certainly
wouldn't have a foil on a cruising boat unless it was a nessary part
of a furling system.

ciao,

-tom.
--
===============================================================================
webb@uhunix.uhcc.Hawaii.edu
From: pavlov@niktow.canisius.edu (Greg Pavlov)
Newsgroups: rec.boats
Subject: Re: Abandoned boats and marinas
Keywords: Salvage, Abandoned boats, marinas
Date: 10 Nov 92 13:19:08 GMT
Organization: Canisius College, Buffalo NY. 14208

In article <1992Nov9.152409.5676@porthos.cc.bellcore.com>, keith@iscp.Bellcore.COM (Keith Hawkins) writes:
> 
> I was driving by a bunch of marinas with a friend
> the other day, and he pointed out a whole section
> of old wooden power boats rotting on land.  He said
> that all those boats were just left there by the owners
> and the marinas are stuck with them.  He said that
> the marinas can't sell them, because they don't own
> them.  Yet the owners just leave them there because
> if they try to reclaim them, the marinas will sock
> them with many years worth of storage bills.
> 
  I know of several auctions in the past year that involved or included boats
  that were being sold to cover overdue marina charges.  Some of the boats 
  were old wooden ones - power and sail - but some were quite knew.  Many had
  bank liens against them as well.

  There are a LOT of old wooden cruisers and sailers sitting rotting in yards
  around here.  I don't really know why.  But one reason may be connected with
  what I saw at the auctions:  the average selling price of these boats seemed
  to be in the $500 - $1,000 range.  If I were a marina owner, I might well be
  tempted to hold on to them and continue to hassle the owners in the hope that
  some might come through with back payments.


  greg pavlov
  pavlov@fstrf.org
Newsgroups: rec.boats
From: rwein@spartan.ac.BrockU.CA (Robert A. Wein)
Subject: Re: How to move two Lasers?
Organization: Brock University, St. Catharines Ontario
X-Newsreader: Tin 1.1 PL4
Date: Fri, 6 Nov 1992 05:09:41 GMT

In our travels to CORK, we often had to bring 8-10 lasers with one
vehicle and one trailer (4 laser trailer).  Using 2X4's, carpeting
and a lot of hope/trust, we put 2 on top of a van (hull up/hull up)
and 7 on the trailer.  We found that the hull was solid enough to
withstand the pressure of another laser on top of it.

Getting a laser on top of a car is a 30 job with 3 people and 45 secs
for 2 people.

Finally, a one laser trailer (hull down) can hold a second trailer
quite easily with sufficient cushioning between them.  And, if you
make the cushion properly, you can drill a big hole to handle the
spars.
.

-- 

-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=--
|Robert A. Wein      | rwein@spartan.ac.brocku.ca |        Brock University|
| V401A, Brock University, St. Catharines Ontario, L2S 3A1    416/688-1786 |
From: Konrad.Koenig@f764.n153.z1.ship.wimsey.bc.ca (Konrad Koenig)
Sender: UUCP@ship.wimsey.bc.ca
Newsgroups: rec.boats
Subject: Radio Active Waters ?
Date: Sat, 07 Nov 1992 21:28:00 -0800

The 4,800 tonne Ocean Freighter AKATSUKI MARI set sail today from
Cherbourg on 15,000 mile voyage to Japan.

Her cargo ? 1.7 tonnes of weapons grade PLUTONIUM in 133 casks
"carefully" stowed in its holds.

Who can guarantee fair weather and no mishaps ? Why tempt providence to
pollute our seas with plutonium ............ have we all gone mad ??

THERE ARE FIFTY MORE SUCH TRIPS PLANNED OVER THE DECADE !!!

Who are the beneficiaries of this contract of depravity ?

They are :        JAPAN (world domination)
                  U.S. (the broke world policeman needing money)
                  FRANCE  (both countries bankrupt and ready to
                  U.K.    (sell anything to anyone regardless of risk

As Sailors, you have a vested interest in maintaining "fair winds" and
fair waters. Write, lobby, express your outrage over this
threat to our global waters.

DON'T BUY JAPANESE PRODUCTS THEY THREATEN OUR PLANET !!!

 * OLX 2.1 TD * MSI HQ! BBS - Home of Off-Line Xpress 805-395-0650


Newsgroups: rec.boats
From: robb@tfs.com (Not a tty)
Subject: Re: A social problem
Organization: TRW Financial Systems
Distribution: usa
Date: Thu, 12 Nov 1992 18:50:37 GMT

In article <1992Nov11.130451.25299@cs.brown.edu> jfh@cs.brown.edu (John F. Hughes) writes:
>When we go ashore from Sarah in our dinghy, we either have to put the Seagull
>engine aboard and make it work (noisy, heavy, etc.), or we have to row, which
>is what we do most of the time. Sometimes I row, sometimes Cynthia does. 
>When she rows, we almost always get comments like "How do you get *your* wife
>to do that? I wish I could get *mine* to!" and "Look at that! Living like a
>king!" or "What's your secret, buddy?", or "Hey, how come *you're* not rowing?"
>We've worked on some answers for these folks, but none seem really
>satisfactory. One is "Captain does whatever she wants to do." Another is
>"She's better at it than I am. I do the cooking." And one we've never
>used is "We're on a mission to combat cultural stereotypes." 
>Any suggestions? Any ideas *why* these people cannot imagine a healthy woman
>in her 30's rowing a boat?

How about:

1. "Please don't interrupt, she's teaching me how to row."
2. "I have always relied on the kindness of strangers".
3. "I would, if she would only remove these handcuffs".
4. "Its her boat, I'm just the boyfriend."
5. "What's the use of having a dwarf if you can't make them do things."
6. "You mean your wife doesn't?".
-- 
Robb Kane (robb@tfs.com) | Triarchy - 1: government by three persons   2: a 
TRW Financial Systems    | country under three rulers   3: A large, elegant,
Berkeley, California     | full keeled sailing vessle so named for its crew.
Newsgroups: rec.boats
From: hubertc@cory.Berkeley.EDU (Hung-Hsien Hubert Chang)
Subject: S.F boating?
Organization: University of California, at Berkeley
Date: Sun, 8 Nov 1992 05:07:25 GMT

Hi! I would like to know if it is possible to rent a boat ( small one)
in S.F. kind of for fun 2 hours 3 hours stuff.

Thanks.

Hubert
e-mail:hubertc@cory.berkeley.edu 
Newsgroups: rec.boats
From: stefan@leland.Stanford.EDU (Stefan Michalowski)
Subject: Re: Running Backstay Question
Organization: DSG, Stanford University, CA 94305, USA
Date: Tue, 10 Nov 92 22:55:23 GMT

I wrote:
>>I'm really impressed by these boats, except for the newer ones (ex. 45f5)
>>with their Pininfarina logo...

Then Bruce wrote:

>Blimey! I've been very impressed with the 45f5, usually as they've sailed
>past the boat I'm racing on! The "f" stands for Farr, and it was the Kiwi
>genius that designed them. They're excellent cruiser-racer yachts.

I know that Beneteau uses the best designers like Farr and Frers
(First 42).  They have a deserved reputation for being fast and
rugged. What bugs me is the phoney-baloney appearance of the latest
models. The deck layout on the 45f5 looks like a landlubber's version
of what a sailboat SHOULD look like in the 21st century. I wonder just
how much time the lads at Pininfarina have spent trying to find a good
way to brace themselves while grinding those big winches, or sitting
for a few hours on the rail in the wet and cold? Similarly, the
interiors I've peeked into have that "designer" look, with funereal
dark mahogany and artsy white marble. I'll admit that I haven't sailed
on the newer boats, but I still think Pininfarina should stick to cars
and toasters.


S.
From: advax@reg.triumf.ca (A.Daviel)
Newsgroups: rec.boats
Subject: Re: Abandoned boats and marinas
Date: 9 Nov 1992 14:26 PST
Organization: TRIUMF: Tri-University Meson Facility
Distribution: world
NNTP-Posting-Host: reg.triumf.ca
Keywords: Salvage, Abandoned boats, marinas
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41    

In article <1992Nov9.152409.5676@porthos.cc.bellcore.com>, keith@iscp.Bellcore.COM (Keith Hawkins) writes...
> 
< deleted - software won't let me post with "more included text than new text">
> 
>Can't this situation be avoided with some sort of
>abandonment/salvage claim by the marinas so they can
>get these boats off their property?
>Is my friend correct on this situation??  Does this
>boat owner/marina stalemate really exist?
> 
I don't know for sure, but I think that (in Canada) boats can be seized by 
bailiffs for non-payment of fees, since I have seen stickers to this effect 
on some boats in my marina. I suspect that sometimes the owners sneak in with 
an axe, on the basis that "If I can't have it, no-one else is going to sail 
it". The marina then cuts them up for disposal.

--
 Andrew Daviel, Vancouver, Canada
From: dgs@draco.larc.nasa.gov (Dave G Shively)
Newsgroups: rec.boats
Subject: Outboard HP
Date: 12 Nov 1992 14:32:17 GMT
Organization: NASA Langley Research Center, Hampton, VA  USA
Distribution: world
NNTP-Posting-Host: draco.larc.nasa.gov
Originator: dgs@draco.larc.nasa.gov


I am considering purchasing a small outboard for my Lightning for 
access to more of the local boat ramps which are in some fairly
narrow creeks.  The boat weighs about 700 lbs. + crew and beer.

What size outboard is recommended?

Dave Shively   Lightning #13766    
dgs@draco.larc.nasa.gov
From: bennett@erich.triumf.ca (P.Bennett)
Newsgroups: rec.boats
Subject: Re: Right of Way
Date: 10 Nov 1992 22:27 PST
Organization: TRIUMF: Tri-University Meson Facility
Distribution: world
NNTP-Posting-Host: erich.triumf.ca
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41    

In article <1992Nov10.182630.6635@leland.Stanford.EDU>, stefan@leland.Stanford.EDU (Stefan Michalowski) writes...
>We all know the basic rules:
> 
>    1. On any point of sail, port tack yields to starboard tack.
>    2. On the same tack, boat sailing lower yields to boat sailing higher.
> 
>But, during the great days of commercial sail, the rules were quite different:
> 
>    1. On any tack, boat sailing lower yields to boat sailing higher.
>    2. On the same point of sail, port yields to starboard.
> 
>I have seen the second set of rules in a number of manuals, some of them
>published as late as 1925. Does anyone know when the rules were changed,
>and why?
> 
> 
>Stefan
> 
> 
The current rules are:
1) when each boat has the wind on a different side, the vessel with the wind on
the port side shall keep out of the way of the other.
2) When both have the wind on the same side, the vessel which is to windward
shall keep out of the way of the vessel which is to leeward.
3)If a vessel with the wind on her port side sees a vessel to windward and
cannot determine with certainty whether the other vessel has the wind on the
port or starboard, she shall keep out of the way of the other.

The old rules (pre-1965, apparently) also had:
A boat running free shall keep clear of one close hauled (apparently regardless
of tack - I don't have the legal wording...)

As was shown in the recent thread re points of sail and true or apparent wind,
it is difficult for one vessel to know whether another is close hauled or not.

It would be possible, if my boat pointed better than another to windward of me,
for us both to be sailing close-hauled, but still be on converging courses.  I
think the old rules didn't adequately cover this situation.


Peter Bennett VE7CEI                | Vessels shall be deemed to be in sight
Internet: bennett@erich.triumf.ca   | of one another only when one can be
Bitnet:   bennett@triumfer          | observed visually from the other
TRIUMF, Vancouver, B.C., Canada     |                          ColRegs 3(k)

Newsgroups: rec.boats
From: tomb@atp.serum.kodak.com (Tom "USA" Bullinger (x37419))
Subject: Re: Request for Info: Broker references (east & gulf coasts)
Organization: Clinical Products Division, Eastman Kodak Company
Date: Fri, 13 Nov 1992 13:44:15 GMT

In article <1692@niktow.canisius.edu> pavlov@niktow.canisius.edu (Greg Pavlov) writes:
>In article <w!q1zb+@rpi.edu>, floydb@rpi.edu writes:
>>
>> Anyone have a favored publication with sailboat/broker listings?
>> 
>> In the past I have gone the 'for sale by owner' route for many
>> things (my house, furniture, etc.) and in some respects am biased
>> towards that market. .........
>
>  I don't have a "favorite" publication for sailboat/broker listings because
>  I'm not into owning a sailboat.  But I would say that the publication that
>  seems to me carries both a fair number of sailboat broker ads as well as
>  private listings is a monthly called Soundings.  The range of boats presented
>  is definitely more egalitarian than what is usually encountered in the 
>  monthly glossies.
>
>  greg pavlov
>  pavlov@fstrf.org

Anybody have a phone number or address for Soundings??
Thanks!

	tomb..

	tomb@serum.kodak.com
From: truher@netcom.com (Joel Burke Truher)
Newsgroups: rec.boats
Subject: More MOORE 24 Swimmers
Date: 12 Nov 92 05:35:18 GMT
Article-I.D.: netcom.1992Nov12.053518.28413
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services  (408 241-9760 guest)


So my friends are thinking, "Moore Moore Moore Moore" and I
wonder how many netters sail one of these twenty-four
foot rockets?  Where's a good fleet to check out?

Joel
Newsgroups: rec.boats