HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: elton@sybase.com (Elton Wildermuth)
Newsgroups: alt.pagan
Subject: Re: Survey - an open complaint to Compuserve
Date: 25 Aug 92 18:10:51 GMT
Followup-To: alt.flame
Organization: Paratheo-Anametamystikhood of Eris Esoteric, Edwin Meese Cabal

From article <gqVRPB2w164w@drc.uucp>:
>
>Please remove the Internet access from account number 70253.2621
>Chris and Susan Colvin. These people have broadcast the following
>message on a great many newsgroups they do not have read access
>to, and the annoyed reactions are taking a lot of network bandwidth.

Dear Mr. System Administrator, Sir:

We out here in NetNewsLand are all too immature to be able to stifle
our reaction to an inflammatory posting by someone even more immature
than we are, so we are writing to ask you to help us by slapping these
naughty people's wrists (and please use a BIG ruler!) because it's
just too much work for us to sit on our own hands, so could you please
do it for us, because really, we tried and tried and tried and we just
can't ignore these people, so can you fix it so we don't have to?  It's
ever so much easier to be morally superior when we don't have to put up
with these annoying nuisances making us waste precious space in our
newsgroup.

Thank you, and have a nice day.

			-- alt.pagan
+++
Inside every free thinker there's a cop trying to claw its way out.
From: elton@sybase.com (Elton Wildermuth)
Newsgroups: alt.pagan
Subject: Re: How 'bout some *new* pagan music?
Date: 28 Aug 92 17:05:44 GMT
Organization: Apparently not.

Oh well.
We don't got to show you no steenking encyclopedias

Leigh Ann:
>Me:
>>	where the Calgary prophet lies,
>Edmonton?  No, actually, it's "where the Calvary prophet lies"...

Feh.  One typo in the whole blessed thing, and it would have to be there.
Sosumi.
			-- Elton
Newsgroups: alt.pagan
From: rtsumn01@ulkyvx.louisville.edu
Subject: Re: Who/what is Baphomet?
Date: Sun, 30 Aug 1992 06:40:12 GMT
Organization: University of Louisville

In article <92240.093709ROYBAL@SLACVM.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU>, ROYBAL@SLACVM.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU writes:
> 
>    Subject line says all. An honest, straight forward question.
> I know nothing of the origins or identity of this entity. What can YOU
> tell me? If this is a "forbidden name" or subject, please let me know,
> and apologize for any offense...
> 
>                                /x
>                      (roybal@slacvm.slac.stanford.edu)

Okay, about 15 people came along with the answer I knew already, but it
reminded me of another one. The name Baphomet came up in conversation one day
and one person stated that it was a good deity, the god who killed Tiamat (who
was actually Marduk, if I haven't stayed up *too* late). Can anyone suggest how
this confusion may have arisen?

--Semhaza
From: krikket@meltdown.chi.il.us (D. 'krikket' Krick)
Newsgroups: alt.pagan
Subject: Re: HEAVEN
Date: 29 Aug 92 08:58:52 GMT
Organization: The Meltdown - A Team Star BBS

In article <1992Aug27.201537.532@csus.edu>, altheimm@nextnet.csus.edu (Murray
Altheim) writes:

>I guess I'm just in a talkative mood today, but I thought I'd mention that
>there is a FAIR amount of evidence that many "intelligent" creatures who
>don't happen to fit the Homo Sapiens mold have been shown to not only 
>possess high-level reasoning ability, but imagination as well. Just because
>this intelligence is not like human intelligence OR we just don't understand
>it (the usual case) don't assume we are "so different".

Okay, I'll bite.  Which "'intelligent' creatures" are you refering to, and can
you quote any sources?  (What can I say, I don't want to take the word of a
netter on this one, but if I can be pointed in the right direction through
mentioned sources...)

Krikket               ! krikket@meltdown.chi.il.us ! USnail:3 Danada Square E.
a.k.a Doug Krick      ! Team Star Charter Member   !        Suite 246
Data ph# 708/665-9732 ! #include<std.disclaimers>  !        Wheaton, Il 60187
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
  Just another commentary on the sad state of affairs on our nation today.
Newsgroups: alt.pagan
From: radzy@ICSI.Berkeley.EDU (T. O. Radzykewycz)
Subject: Re: no kill file
Organization: International Computer Science Institute, Berkeley, CA, U.S.A.
Date: Wed, 26 Aug 1992 20:28:06 GMT

txdv1@isuvax.iastate.edu (Angela KAY Rolling) writes:
[another, probably interesting, article, which was unreadable due to TOO]
[many spelling mistakes]

ceci@lysator.liu.se (Ceci Henningsson) writes:
>I am killfiling this person. Please tell me when she has gotten
>herself a spellchecker, and I will remove her from the kill file. Her
>articles seem interesting, but I can't spend half an hour with each of
>them trying to *guess* what she means.

cortese@skid.ps.uci.edu (Janis Maria Cortese) writes:
> Chill!  It's a pain to read, but so what?  Sometimes people have
> problems that keep them from communicating in Broadcast English; her
> posts are worth reading.

I have to agrtee with Janis.  Chill out!  Kay's posts are worth reading,
though they can be a little difficult at times.  I don't really care
what the reason for the spelling is -- this isn't an academic journal
we're talking about here, or you (Ceci) wouldn't be able to post,
either.  

Even if you decide *not* to read her posts, at least have the merest
courtesy to avoid being antagonistic about it.

Blessings -- may your ability to read improve as you grow older, and
may you avoid blaming others for your problems until then!

		-- radzy

------------------------------------------------------------
					|  An it harm none,
	T. O. Radzykewycz	     	|  do as ye will.
	The Incredible Radical Cabbage	|
					|  "Just pray for a
	radzy@cogsci.berkeley.edu       |  tough hide and a
	        			|  tender heart."
	        			|    -- Ruth Graham
------------------------------------------------------------
> Hi! I am a .signature virus. Copy me into your .signature to join in!
From: cortese@skid.ps.uci.edu (Janis Maria Cortese)
Subject: Re: Freedom of Religion as well as everything else
Newsgroups: alt.pagan
Organization: University of California, Irvine
Keywords: Civil Rights, Pagan
Date: 27 Aug 92 17:54:23 GMT

In article <7529@monmouth.edu> c1741@moncol.monmouth.edu (MICHAEL CARSON) writes:
>In article <1992Aug26.215337.8045@pasteur.Berkeley.EDU> radzy@ICSI.Berkeley.EDU (T. O. Radzykewycz) writes:
>>bbooth@x400gate.bnr.ca (Brad Booth) writes:
>>> Is Janis moving to Canada??  ;)  
>>
>>If so, then Canada will become a much better place!  And California
>>will be much much poorer.
>>
>>Blessings!
>>
>>		-- radzy
>
>	Well, I was referring to her (joking, I hope) comment on slitting
>her wrists, if she needed a weapon to survive around here.  But what you
>say about Canada's gain has more than a slight ring of truth.  I just hope
>she can get net.access in Canada, so WE don't have to do without.  :)

If you people had any idea how wonderful it is to read things like 
this . . . 

I love ALL of you,
Janis



Newsgroups: alt.pagan
From: txdv1@isuvax.iastate.edu (Angela KAY Rolling)
Subject: invertied cross
Reply-To: txdv1@isuvax.iastate.edu
Organization: Iowa State University, Ames, Iowa
Date: Thu, 3 Sep 1992 21:38:02 GMT

an in vertied cross (upside down)is The Coss of Peter. the satonic version
of the cross is at an angle mesering ether -45 degrees or 225 degrees- a very
comen misconception (figuers are aproxamit).
Newsgroups: alt.pagan
Subject: Re: Wicca (was Re: Pat Robertson)
From: canders@isr.harvard.edu (Carl E. Anderson)
Date: Wed, 2 Sep 92 16:19:30 GMT
Organization: Harvard University, Cambridge, MA

In article <1992Sep1.200446.11739@bnr.ca> (Michael Snider) writes:
>Wicca is a name used by any of several neo-pagan groups.  Some claim to
>be descended from the pre-Christian folk-religions of Europe.  Most worship
>a Goddess and her male consort in a kind of nature religion.  Some wiccans 
>call themselves witches.  A reasonably good book to start with (I think)
>is _Drawing Down the Moon_, the author of which I can't remember.  You can
>get lots of information, company, and entertainment at alt.pagan.

	Wicca was invented earlier in the middle of this century in England
by individuals claiming connection with "ancient European goddess cults"
that had been popularized by certain scholars at the end of the 19th
century.  These "ancient cults" are widely regarded as a lot of hooey these
days, but it must be said that Wicca has certain genuine folk-traditions
wrapped within its syncretist bundle.  A lot of it seems to be an amalgram
of Celtic and Hermetic (late Judeo-Christian) elements.
	It's probably the best know and most popular of the neo-pagan
movements and has sizeable communities in some areas (right here in
Cambridge, Mass., for example!).

Cheers,
Carl

---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Carl Edlund Anderson	            	"Hefi ek ok aldri sva reitt vapn
canders@isr.harvard.edu			at manni at eigi hafi vidh kommit."
OR
anderso2@husc.harvard.edu			- Skarphedhinn Njalsson 
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: lip@s1.gov (Loren I. Petrich)
Newsgroups: alt.pagan
Subject: Re: some favorite Bible verses... (attention: Chris Colvin)
Date: 1 Sep 92 17:47:41 GMT
Organization: LLNL


	I have a whole fileful of Biblical scandals, in the form of my
Biblical Satanic Verses, available by e-mail.

	I hope to update them pretty soon, so I'd like anything I
haven't covered.
Newsgroups: alt.pagan
Subject: Military ritual?
From: cmacdonald@eagle.wesleyan.edu
Date: 27 Aug 92 21:50:03 EDT
Organization: Wesleyan University

Greetings all,

I used to have (can't find it now) among my papers a letter from an Army pal
describing a ritual he had once seen. If memory serves it involved four members
of the Armed Services arranged thusly:

ARMY            green and brown = Earth     in the North

AIR FORCE        sky blues = Air                   East

MARINES          scarlet and gold = Fire           South

NAVY            blue, white, dk. blue = Water       West


Anybody recognize this or have more info? Please let me know. I wonder what
they do with the Coast Guard?

Joe
Newsgroups: alt.pagan
From: pvisel@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (Patrick E Visel)
Subject: Re: info wanted on runes
Organization: The Ohio State University
Date: Fri, 28 Aug 1992 17:08:05 GMT

In article <1992Aug27.153250.2595@burrhus.harvard.edu> canders@isr.harvard.edu (Carl E. Anderson) writes:

>
>>My point is that describing the Ogham as merely Celtic, you should be a bit
>>more specific and say Irish or British Celtic, or even British Druidic, since
>>it was used (to my knowledge) only by the scholar class, the Druids, and not
>>by the common folk.
>
>	I don't know of any Ogham finds outside the British Isles myself.
>I'm not entirely sure about the Druid Ogham monopoly, since I know that the
>Druids weren't into writing down their lore, but then again I guess Ogham
>inscriptions hardly fall into the same category.
>	Anyone got clue on who wrote Ogham?  This may be one of those
>things nigh well unrecoverable by archaeology ...
>
>Cheers,
>Carl
>
>---------------------------------------------------------------------------
>Carl Edlund Anderson	            	"Hefi ek ok aldri sva reitt vapn
>canders@isr.harvard.edu			at manni at eigi hafi vidh kommit."
>OR
>anderso2@husc.harvard.edu			- Skarphedhinn Njalsson 
>---------------------------------------------------------------------------

     You might want to take a look at

    America B. C.    by  Barry Fell  (New York : Quadrangle; 1976)

While I don't know whether I buy his main thesis (Puno-Celts in Eastern
America), he does provide interesting background on the (re)discovering
of Ogham inscriptions including western Europe (mainly France and Spain).
These are mainly funery inscriptions and/or names.
                                           Just Lurkin'
From: donal@brewich.hou.tx.us (Donal)
Newsgroups: alt.pagan
Subject: Re: no kill file
Date: Wed, 26 Aug 92 17:08:19 CDT
Organization: The Brewer's Witch BBS, +1 713 272 7350, Brewich.Hou.TX.US

ceci@lysator.liu.se (Ceci Henningsson) writes:

> txdv1@isuvax.iastate.edu (Angela KAY Rolling) writes:
> 
> [another, probably interesting, article, which was unreadable due to TOO]
> [many spelling mistakes]
> 
> >ELF-KIN	just because some one segests that one read the bible does
> >not meen that they think that you should beleave it.
> 
> I am killfiling this person. Please tell me when she has gotten
> herself a spellchecker, and I will remove her from the kill file. Her
> articles seem interesting, but I can't spend half an hour with each of
> them trying to *guess* what she means.
> 
> --Ceci, bewildered
> 
> 
> --
> =====ceci@lysator.liu.se===========================================
> "Where is the mythic archetype who will save us from ecological
> catastrophe or credit card debt?" 
> Ian McDonald in King of Morning, Queen of Day

I will forgive you this once for flaming ELF-KIN, because you obviously 
do not know. ELF-KIN has some form of disorder, similar to dyslexia I 
would imagine, that causes him to write the way he does. I have seen his 
posts in many places on may boards, and his posts are always well thought 
out and informative. It just isn't in what you might readily recognize as 
english. Lighten up and ask before you slam, next time.

--------------------
Donal, Sysop of The Brewer's Witch BBS -- +1 713 272 7350
(Internet) donal@brewich.hou.tx.us  (Work) bill%pssi@lobster.hou.tx.us
(CIS) 76460,1443 
(SCA) Ld. Donal Dubh, IC of Dun Bruddair, B of the Stargate, K of Ansteorra
Newsgroups: alt.pagan
From: erc@unislc.uucp (Ed Carp)
Subject: Re: Hitler and Christianity
X-Newsreader: Tin 1.1 PL5
Organization: Unisys Corporation SLC
Date: Thu, 3 Sep 1992 01:49:28 GMT

G. Wolfe Woodbury (wolfe@wolves.uucp) wrote:

: In article <1992Aug24.220857.14243@unislc.uucp> erc@unislc.uucp (Ed Carp) sez:
: >Albert Lunde (Albert-Lunde@nwu.edu) wrote:
: >
: >: There *are* Christians who have more in common with neo-pagans than
: >: with the fundamentalists. Admitting this is one step short of leaving
: >: the Christian church entirely.
: >
: >Oh, I somehow doubt that.
: 
: Ed, which part are you having trouble with?  That there *are* "Christians" 
: that may actually share more with the neo-pagan spiritualities?  Or that for
: them to admit to being more mystically inclined places them in jeopardy of
: being pushed out of the "Christian" community (as re-defined by the 
: conservakooks)?

The latter.  Oh, sure, there are a few on the lunatic fringe that would claim
that "if you don't believe <insert rigid belief system here>, then you're not
a Christian, and you don't belong here!"  The rigid belief system is usually
however the lunatic believes.

: pledges. :-)   Quite a number of very good and interesting folks I met
: along the way are personally quite comfortable with the spirituality of
: the neo-pagan movement and the goals of tolerance and love for persons
: individually.  A number of these folks have followed their own paths and
: have come to the Unitarian-Universalist fold, and some have simply continued
: to remain in the Episcopal congregations, and some have come out as explicit
: "pagans".

And I'll bet that most of them hold to those views ... very privately.

: Oh, a point to this posting?    There *are* Christians who can deal openly
: and honestly with a pagan spirituality and accept it with a good conscience.
: As to their precarious position within the "Church", I'll not really comment.

And, by definition, they aren't *really* Christians, you see.  As Arnold
Nordeng or John Emory would point out, "But Jesus said, 'I am the way, the
truth, and the light.  No one comes to the Father except through Me.'"  This
viewpoint excludes and condemns other spiritual paths.

I won't mention to them the fact that their interpretation of their beloved
Bible is not only incorrect, but heretical.
-- 
Ed Carp, N7EKG     erc@apple.com                801/538-0177
"This is the final task I will ever give you, and it  goes  on  forever.   Act
happy, feel happy, be happy, without a reason in the world. Then you can love,
and do what you will."           -- Dan Millman, "Way Of The Peaceful Warrior"
From: cortese@skid.ps.uci.edu (Janis Maria Cortese)
Subject: Re: some favorite Bible verses... (attention: Chris Colvin)
Newsgroups: alt.pagan
Organization: University of California, Irvine
Date: 1 Sep 92 18:33:59 GMT

In article <1992Sep1.174741.24182@s1.gov> lip@s1.gov (Loren I. Petrich) writes:
>
>	I have a whole fileful of Biblical scandals, in the form of my
>Biblical Satanic Verses, available by e-mail.
>
>	I hope to update them pretty soon, so I'd like anything I
>haven't covered.

A friend of mine has _The X-Rated Bible_.  It's got all the blood and
gore in it, and all the stonings.  Supposedly it was written by a woman
who got badly ill and had to spend time in her house recuperating.  She
had nothing else to do, so out of boredom, she began reading the bible.
She was evidently shocked at the cruelties and bloodshed in the thing,
and published a concentrated version of it -- to demonstrate to people
just what this "good book" really says.

It's worth reading.  Half of you will think it's a hoot, and the other
half will be appalled at how something so nasty could have been taken
to heart by so many people. 

Blessings,
Janis
From: mimir@milton.u.washington.edu (Al Billings)
Subject: Re: Freedom of Religion as well as everything else
Keywords: Civil Rights, Pagan
Organization: The Friends of Loki Society
Date: Tue, 25 Aug 1992 18:58:10 GMT

In article <2A9A6E08.11172@orion.oac.uci.edu> cortese@skid.ps.uci.edu (Janis Maria Cortese) writes:
>Perhaps I should clear something up here.  This is not the first time
>I've wondered if I wouldn't be happier living in another country.
>Canada, south central Spain, and New Zealand are all high on the list
>and have been for quite a while.  The Magnificent Mikey thinks of
>northern Mexico.

 How about Iceland or Finland or Norway?

Wassail,
Grendel

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
| Al Billings - Anthropology Undergrad - Admin for the Troth-l Mailing List | 
| SysOp of The Sacred Grove BBS (206)634-1980 -=- mimir@u.washington.edu    |
------------------------------ Cut Here -------------------------------------
begin 644 GRENDEL.PUB
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LV+1/'DT4SH3V2$'*(9NAE_,+VB9R.4=@$9R.J1?CL3H!9@HR8+7DD3@%`!$%E
``
end
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: radzy@ICSI.Berkeley.EDU (T. O. Radzykewycz)
Newsgroups: alt.pagan
Subject: Re: Scott Mayo no longer on Net
Date: 29 Aug 92 16:17:52 GMT
Organization: International Computer Science Institute, Berkeley, CA, U.S.A.

ciaran@county.lmt.mn.org (Ciaran Benson) writes (at least I think it was Ciaran):
>  I hardly think that responding to an accusation that your
>beliefs are WRONG indicates a "one true way" attitude.

krikket@meltdown.chi.il.us (D. 'krikket' Krick) writes:
> Maybe I'm missing something completely, but I fail to see how someone who is
> proclaiming all other beleifs to be WRONG could NOT beleive in a "one true
> way."  If I'm missing something, or just misunderstanding, please correct me!

Right -- you're missing something completely.  Ciaran is saying
that SCOTT posted that all pagan beliefs are wrong.  SCOTT
believes in a "one true way."  Other people responded to Scott's
post, and for responding to Scott's post, THEY were accused of
believing in a "one true way."  The rest of Ciaran's post
supported the same statement:

> This network's SWIMMING with people who tried to point out a
> wrong and got ... accused of doing exactly what they're trying
> to defend themselves from.

Blessings!

		-- radzy

------------------------------------------------------------
					|  An it harm none,
	T. O. Radzykewycz	     	|  do as ye will.
	The Incredible Radical Cabbage	|
					|  "Just pray for a
	radzy@cogsci.berkeley.edu       |  tough hide and a
	        			|  tender heart."
	        			|    -- Ruth Graham
------------------------------------------------------------
> Hi! I am a .signature virus. Copy me into your .signature to join in!
Newsgroups: alt.pagan
From: bbooth@x400gate.bnr.ca (Brad Booth)
Subject: Re: Canada (was: Re: Freedom of Religion as well as everything else)
Followup-To: soc.culture.canada
Originator: bbooth@bcrks6
Reply-To: bbooth@x400gate.bnr.ca (Brad Booth)
Organization: Bell-Northern Research Ltd, Ottawa
Date: Fri, 4 Sep 1992 13:27:57 GMT


Al Billings writes:
>  But you can die waiting for medical care due to the Socialized nature of
> it. There was an article in the Seattle Times about it this week. A
> patient that NEEDED to have heart surgery immediatly was seeing a doctor
> through a friend here in the States. The doctor called the patient's
> doctor in Canada and was informed that they might be able to get to him in
> a few weeks (or it might have been months, I can't remember). The American
> doctor askes the Canadian doctor if people ever died because of the waits,
> and the Canadian doctor told him "All the time."

At least he's honest. ;)  But seriously, people die in both Canada and the US
waiting for medical care.  It's not that uncommon.  The other thing I think
that you should try to take into context is the fact that Vancouver is Canada's
fastest growing city, and most of that growth is in retired people.  This
large influx of people has put a load on the medical system.  Socialized
medicare is not perfect, the medical professions, governments and people
recognize that and are making moves to improve the service.  But, the key to
*me* is that everyone in Canada has access to affordable medical care.  It
costs, but IMHO I think most Canadians will tell you that it's worth it.

Follow-ups to soc.culture.canada.


Cheers,

    __o     Brad Booth              | "If somebody feels really good
  _`\<,_    Bell-Northern Research  |  about who they are, they don't
 (*)/ (*)   Ottawa, Ontario, Canada |  feel threatened by what other
----------  bbooth@x400gate.bnr.ca  |  people are." - Dr. M. Rubenstein
Newsgroups: alt.pagan
From: ba@mrcnext.cso.uiuc.edu (B.A. Davis-Howe)
Subject: Re: Masons/Knights Templar
Organization: University of Illinois at Urbana
Date: Wed, 2 Sep 1992 00:00:58 GMT

gerda@brewich.hou.tx.us (Gerda Thunarsson) writes:

>> I really doubt the masons are "luciferian" in any religious sense...
>Our Odhinnsgodi has a Masonic Bible that his father had before him.  In 
>that bible it is clearly stated that they are Luciferians.  If i did not 
>have a reason for stating such, I would not have made the statement.
> 
Can you please quote the exact text from the Masonic Bible?  Also, please 
include publishing information so that I can check the reference directly.

              Merry meet, merry part, merry meet again,
                               Br'anArthur

Queer, Peculiar, and Wyrd! :-)
Newsgroups: alt.pagan
From: radzy@ICSI.Berkeley.EDU (T. O. Radzykewycz)
Subject: Re: Opinion on Masonry
Organization: International Computer Science Institute, Berkeley, CA, U.S.A.
Date: Tue, 1 Sep 1992 05:18:25 GMT

cmacdonald@eagle.wesleyan.edu writes:
>Let's clear up, or attempt to, anyway, a few points persuant to this thread.
>The following are the opinions of a Mason who hasn't been to Lodge in a while,
>so take them accordingly.
>
>5. Masonry is often heavily politicized, what with black lodges being
>recognized or not, or those crazy all-females lodges in France, or Masonry
>becoming a sort of glorified Rotary.

cortese@skid.ps.uci.edu (Janis Maria Cortese) writes:
> Oooh, icky icky boo-boo!  All-female lodges!  Oh, yuck!  Must be a bunch
> of bull-dykes who don't shave their legs.  Eeeeeeww! 
> 
> Or do you consider the all-male lodges to be just as "crazy?"

Yup.  That's one of the reasons I never took masonry too seriously.

Blessings!

		-- radzy