HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: davidg@aegis.or.jp (Dave McLane)
Newsgroups: alt.bbs
Subject: Re: BBS Standards Committ
Date: 2 Sep 92 02:37:39 GMT
Organization: Aegis Society, Kyoto Japan

cblaise@moose.uvm.edu.UUCP (Chris Blaise) writes:

>From article <2539@aegis.or.jp>, by davidg@aegis.or.jp (Dave McLane):
>> 
>> Going back to what somebody else said (sorry, I forget who), I think
>> it's the case that when TBBS wants to run certain modules/whatever
>> (like handing incoming news) it needs to shut-down on-line operation.
>> 
>> Is this so? 
>	Yes it is...as much as I and many other TBBS SysOps would like
>to say "for now", it doesn't look like something that's going to change
>very soon :/

I can imagine. Depending on how it was written in the first place,
moving a something under a multi-tasking environment can be a cinch
or a major project. 

When I started there were no inexpensive AT clones in Japan so I
wrote a single-line BBS to run under DOS on an NEC 9801. When I
wanted to make it mulit-line I realized that for the amount of work
it would take I could get Waffle, run it under DOS and tweak it to
my heart's content and then when I wanted multi-line run it under
UNIX get both multi-line and multi-tasking as well. But that's
because Waffle was designed from the ground up with DOS<->UNIX in
mind, thus all you have to do is change a few configuration parameters. 

If TBBS (or anything else) hasn't been designed for multi-tasking,
it could be a long long time.

Oh well, lots of time to convince people they don't really need
to run stuff of their own design :-)

Dave

--
Dave McLane 
JUNET: davidg@aegis.or.jp (ONLY within Japan: post otherwise)
Nagaokakyoshi, Kyoto Japan Tel: +81-75-951-1168 Fax: +81-75-957-1087
Newsgroups: alt.bbs,comp.dcom.modems
From: bill@unixland.natick.ma.us (Bill Heiser)
Subject: V.FAST (WAS: Re: RE-USRobotics SysOp deal)
Organization: Unixland Public Access Unix  (508) 655-3848
Date: Mon, 31 Aug 1992 21:54:00 GMT

brad@clarinet.com (Brad Templeton) writes:
>Twice as fast just doesn't sound as exciting as 6 times as fast.  It will
>have a tougher time catching on as non-standard.  Oh, people will buy it,
>but they will not swamp to it.   And before they can, digital connections,
>switched-56 or isdn, should get cheap.

What's the deal with V.Fast?  What are the specs (in general terms)?
How soon is it expected to be in the marketplace?

I still haven't upgraded to 14.4 modems, and am debating whether I should
or just wait for this new thing.

-- 
bill@unixland.natick.ma.us                      ESIX Mailing List Moderator
Public Access UNIX/USENET/E-MAIL!  UUCP Accounts Available!  (508) 655-3848
5 lines  -  Located in Natick, MA   USA    Supporting V.32/PEP/V.42bis, etc.
From: imb@asstdc.oz.au (michael butler)
Sender: fredmail@asstdc.oz.au
Newsgroups: alt.bbs
Subject: BBS Standards Comittee and Graphics
Date: Mon, 31 Aug 1992 13:34:00 +1000

arumble@extro.ucc.su.OZ.AU (Anthony Rumble) writes ..

 > Unfortunately it seems that most sysops (Especially over here) are
 > more interested in how they can get it for nothing, than actually
 > supporting it..

 > (You would be amazed at the number of Beta tester offers I got..
 > none of them wanted to pay anything of course!)

The primary difficulty, of course, is that most SysOp's (in fidonet at least)
believe that they have to start with a working product .. we all know that, in
reality, a new product in development is almost never working :-)

Selling concepts is difficult at best, selling a working product even with
'documented features' is a lot easier,

    michael
--
 Assorted C Software - asstdc.oz.au - 3:712/515@fidonet
      PO Box 595, Kensington NSW, Australia 2033


Xref: sparky alt.bbs:5399 comp.bbs.misc:649 comp.misc:3333
From: scasterg@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (Stuart M Castergine)
Newsgroups: alt.bbs,comp.bbs.misc,comp.misc
Subject: Re: The bogus Nixpub Posting
Date: 25 Aug 92 23:54:16 GMT
Organization: The Ohio State University

In article <1992Aug25.122314.859@aspentec.com> tto@aspentec.com writes:
>
>As a user, I would like to see more information available.  Thus, I would
>like to know about sites that does not give free access to first time
>callers such as John's.  On the other hand, I would also like to see the
>information organized in a sensible way; and having John publishing a list
>that largely duplicates Phil's just adds more confusion.

Hear, hear! I agree. As a user, I feel a little short-changed finding
out that sites like the two in Atlanta aren't listed. Coincidentally,
I just recently had someone asking me for the location of a public
access site in Atlanta and didn't have anything to tell him. It's not
a big deal for most people to have to *talk* on the phone instead of
being able to do online registration.


-- 
scasterg@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu -- Stuart M. Castergine
Fiver: "Oh, Hazel, look! The field! It's covered with blood!"
Hazel: "Don't be silly, it's only the light of the sunset." -- Watership Down
Newsgroups: alt.bbs,comp.bbs.misc,comp.misc
From: keith@ksmith.uucp (Keith Smith)
Subject: Re: Coherent Re: The bogus Nixpub Posting
Organization: Keith's Computer, Hope Mills, NC
Date: Mon, 31 Aug 92 18:50:01 GMT

In article <Btqzrt.6y5@gator.rn.com> larry@gator.rn.com (Larry Snyder) writes:
>kilroy@acme.gen.nz (earthbound misfit, I) writes:
>
>>Coherent is a multi-user multitasking OS that, by all accounts, bears more
>>than a passing resemblance to Unix V7. Virtually any Unix user, given a
>>Coherent shell on a character-based terminal, wouldn't realise they weren't
>>on Unix. The only thing not-Unix about Coherent is the price - I don't
>
>Virtually any user would be able to tell that they were not running
>real UNIX when their favorite applications like Word Perfect, dBase or
>Lotus would not run.  They would also be able to tell when there were no

WHO's favorite app?  Who calls into a PA UNIX site to run flipping WP
over a modem?  Give me a break?  I have NONE of the 3 programs you
mentioned on Any of the 20+ unix boxes I support.

>ports available on the machine, since very few if any of the multiport
>vendors (ie: Digiboard, etc) support unix clones -- after all why should
>they?

Well,  for one they haven't had TIME yet.  The product has only been out
for a month.  I believe Digi is seriously considering their Smart port
drivers and the Coherent Kernel already has built-ins for most of the
popular dumb cards INCLUDING Digi's 16 port and Hostess, and Arnet, and
about 10 or 20 other's.  I think with the current stable 386 product you
will see some vendors picking up the ball within a few months.

And again,  why would someone who wants PA unix care about the ports
unless you were RUNNING the PA system?  My god  If you can run 5 or 6
dial in lines and have newsfeeds and stuff, I'd say you were doing
pretty good.

>
>-- 
>Larry Snyder                                    internet: larry@gator.rn.com
>keeper of the Gator                                  uucp: uunet!gator!larry

-- 
Keith Smith          uunet!ksmith!keith            5719 Archer Rd.
Digital Designs      BBS 1-919-423-4216            Hope Mills, NC 28348-2201
Somewhere in the Styx of North Carolina ...
Xref: sparky alt.bbs:5488 comp.bbs.misc:728
From: leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Newsgroups: alt.bbs,comp.bbs.misc
Subject: Re: BBS Standards Committee Formed (mine)
Date: 28 Aug 92 13:20:01 GMT
Article-I.D.: qiclab.1992Aug28.132001.8459
Reply-To: 70465.203@compuserve.com
Organization: SCN Research/Qic Laboratories of Tigard, Oregon.

dawson@willard.UUCP writes:

>My whole point, but not quite exactly.  I was under the impression that most
>PC BBS systems do not store messages as in a single-message-per-file format,
>but rather in a database of some more sophisticated means of disk space
>management, and I felt that the post to which I responded was actually
>referring to this distinction.

From comments on various Fido echoes, it's far from "most". A lot use
straight Fido MSG (FTS-0001) formats.

>Any BBS that keeps its messages or conferences database in an indexed flat file
>would have improved disk space characteristics over even the best Unix file
>system.  If one takes that one step further and compresses the actual contents
>of the message (requiring a dedicated reader, of course), then the size of the
>message database will have been significantly reduced.

Quickbbs, RA, and SuperBBS all us a common format (stolen from QuickBBS :-)
that does the database bit, but without compression. Compression is likely
to lose more performance than the gain in disk space would justify. 


>Garsh.  What about UUCP/NNTP?  Even if each separate BBS system has a different
>concept of what the message database resembles locally, why should there be
>any work at all left to do with sharing messages?  It is most definitely a
>task that should be left to the implementors of (your BBS name here) to effect
>a utility that converts outgoing messages to the required form necessary to
>work with the existing transport mechanisms.  There's no call to go off and
>create a NEW transport standard.

Congratulations. With the exception of the fact that they use a standard 
FTS defined transport rather than UUCP/NNTP you've just described how Fidonet
does it. You have a mailer that handles inter-system transport of files
and packets(message bundles). You have a "tosser" that moves messages
between the Fido packets and the BBS's message format. And of course, you
have the BBS itself. 

Sometimes these functions are combined (BBSes that do their own tossing,
or mailers that toss). But generally you can make even the combined
programs *not* do the tossing. This gives a *lot* of flexibility.

There are at least 3 major mailers (one of which has a version that
is *free* for non-commercial use). I've got *no* idea how many tossers
there are. I know of close to a dozen just for QuickBBS (including the one
that comes with it). 

So while I agree that we don't have a pressing need for a NEW standard,
which of the *existing* standards do we use? :-)

-- 
Leonard Erickson		      leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com
CIS: [70465,203]			 70465.203@compuserve.com
FIDO:   1:105/51	 Leonard.Erickson@f51.n105.z1.fidonet.org
(The CIS & Fido addresses are preferred)
Newsgroups: alt.bbs,comp.bbs.misc,comp.misc
From: jim@n5ial.chi.il.us
Subject: Re: The bogus Nixpub Posting
Originator: jim@eddie
Reply-To: jim@n5ial.chi.il.us
Organization: me?  have you seen my desk?  : -)
Date: Wed, 26 Aug 1992 18:03:06 GMT

my opinion on the nixpub list is mine alone, and I'm not going to fuel the
fire any....but there is one little crack from John De Armond toward one
of the folks in this thread that just doesn't work out right....

In article <p0an8#h@dixie.com> jgd@dixie.com (John De Armond) writes:
>cain_p@kosmos.wcc.govt.nz writes:

>>But aren't there only TWO "public access" sites in Atlanta?  Two
>>systems missing from out of 130 doesn't automatically make the
>
>Problems finishing the sentence?

problems reading the next line of his post that you so conveniently
deleted?  I went back a few articles, and gee, look what I found...seems
he was quite capable of finishing the sentence.  strange how you chose not
to notice that part.

FYI, here's what he really wrote:

>>But aren't there only TWO "public access" sites in Atlanta?  Two
>>systems missing from out of 130 doesn't automatically make the
>>list bogus.

we now return you to our regularly scheduled program....
   --jim

\input std_disclaimer                     % 73 DE N5IAL (/9)
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"[...] the plural of `mongoose' ought to be `polygoose'." [Jargon file 2.9.10]

INTERNET:  jim@n5ial.chi.il.us  |  grahj@gagme.chi.il.us  |  j.graham@ieee.org
UUCP:  gagme!n5ial!jim@clout.chi.il.us
AMATEUR RADIO:  n5ial@n9hsi (Chicago.IL.US.Earth)
------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Xref: sparky alt.bbs:5440 comp.bbs.misc:683 comp.misc:3365
From: erik@pdnfido.fidonet.org (Erik VanRiper)
Newsgroups: alt.bbs,comp.bbs.misc,comp.misc
Subject: Re: The bogus Nixpub Posting
Date: 26 Aug 92 13:14:34 GMT
Organization: The Source for Source Pub Access Unix

In article <b0=n+#-@dixie.com> jgd@dixie.com (John De Armond) writes:
>A few days ago I noted the Nixpub list appearing in these groups.  I noted
>that neither dixie.com nor the other public access site in Atlanta were 
>on the list.  I dropped Phil Eschallier, the keeper of the list, a note with 
>a description of Dixie.com.  Following is the exchange of mail we had.
>I think it will demonstrate a serious problem with the Nixpub list.
>That is, Phil refuses to list any system that does not have a free login
>where he or anyone else can log into and prowl.  I have no idea
>how many other non-freely hackable systems there are out here but I'd 
>imagine there are quite a few.
>
>Perhaps we need to start a non-bogus list that lists ALL systems, not
>just those who meet Phil's criteria for net.political.correctness.  If 
>there is significant interest, I'll be happy to keep the list here.
>Please note the cross-posting.  I don't read alt.bbs nor comp.bbs.misc
>so either cross-post to comp.misc or email.
>
[180 lines of mindless drivel deleted]

Ah.  Let me re-state my position on "pay BBS's" as follows:

Larry Snyder mentioned that "DOSHeads" expect everything for nothing.  

It seems that more and more Sys[Ops][Admins] expect everyone to pay.

Phil's criteria is fine by me.  

-- 
Like wow...  This be a .sig, eh? 
GEEKS Anonymous - Join today!
The Source for Source - Pub Access Unix.  (516) 968-7824 or (516) 666-5877
Newsgroups: alt.bbs,comp.bbs.misc,comp.misc
From: peterd@pjd.dev.cdx.mot.com (Peter Desnoyers)
Subject: Re: The bogus Nixpub Posting
Organization: Motorola Codex, Canton, Massachusetts
Date: Wed, 26 Aug 1992 17:36:45 GMT

alexis@panix.com (Alexis Rosen) writes:

>larry@gator.rn.com (Larry Snyder) writes:
>>I agree with the author as well.  If dixie.com wanted users, I see
>>nothing wrong with setting up a demo account with maybe 10 minutes of
>>access (that is what we have, 10 minutes -- with limited abilities)
>>Since John had mentioned that he didn't want any more users, it shouldn't
>>matter if dixie.com is in the nixpub or not.

>Furthermore, you don't need to provide an anonymous login at all- just a way
>to register on-line and/or read a help file.

Wait a minute. Nixpub is a list of public access >>>UNIX<<< systems. "a way
to register on-line and/or read a help file" on a UNIX system is going to 
involve a dummy user account, with its shell set to the registration/
help program, and with no password. Hence John's fears of hackers.

Although Phil can put whatever he wants in the NixPub list, I should add
that I am a bit disappointed. I had thought that "public access" meant
that accounts - access - was available to the public, rather than 
restricted to members of some community. (e.g. commercial or university
machines) Silly me - it turns out that "public access" has nothing to
do with the conditions for getting an account on the system, but rather
is based on non-account access given to people without accounts.

For the terminally insecure (a group very over-represented on the net)
this might be an important issue, as otherwise you might have to talk 
to a real, live person to get an account. Or even carry a letter down
the block to a mailbox, and risk having someone see you crawling out 
during the light of day. 

For other individuals who own modems but not telephones, this might be
an issue as well. For the other 99.9% of the general public who would
like to get an account on a public access machine, this criteria seems
a bit bogus. If there were thousands of machines available to the public,
and Phil's list was a boutique, as it were, offering only selections
according to this little quirk of taste, it would be one thing. However,
the current nixpub list probably covers half or a third of all the 
public access systems in the country, and I don't know of any list
covering the rest.

Anyway, just my thoughts on the issue...

				Peter Desnoyers

--
From: davidg@aegis.or.jp (Dave McLane)
Newsgroups: alt.bbs
Subject: Re: NFS mounted news spool (was BBS Standards ...)
Date: 31 Aug 92 21:17:41 GMT
Organization: Aegis Society, Kyoto Japan

ralphs@halcyon.com (Ralph Sims) writes:

>davidg@aegis.or.jp (Dave McLane) writes:

>>but there are a number of options: 1) keep the news on the gateway
>>machine, NFS-mount the news spool the news server and let its CPU
>>work on news, 2) have the news on the news server and let the
>>gateway machine NFS-mount the directories, 3) have the news on the
>>second machine and access it from the gateway (and perhaps other
>>machines as they get added) with NNTP. 

>We have a news spool on one machine mounted via NFS and run the
>threader on a second machine.  Seems to beef up the operation.
>Also, INN may be a workable alternative to cnews, providing even
>faster expires, etc.

I'm not quite sure what you mean by 'threader': same as 'reader'
and or 'users'? That is, the news spool is NFS-mounted on what I
call the gateway machine where people are logged onto and reading
news?

As for INN, I'm only running Bnews (the kanji patches weren't out
for Cnews when I set it up and I haven't had time to change over).

In any case, where do you have /usr/lib/news (or wherever you keep
the news software)? And how does posting an article work: with
'mini-inews'? 

Dave

--
Dave McLane 
JUNET: davidg@aegis.or.jp (ONLY within Japan: post otherwise)
Nagaokakyoshi, Kyoto Japan Tel: +81-75-951-1168 Fax: +81-75-957-1087
Xref: sparky alt.bbs:5546 comp.bbs.misc:796
From: davidg@aegis.or.jp (Dave McLane)
Newsgroups: alt.bbs,comp.bbs.misc
Subject: Re: BBS Standards Committee Formed (mine)
Date: 30 Aug 92 15:47:48 GMT
Followup-To: alt.bbs
Organization: Aegis Society, Kyoto Japan

larry@gator.rn.com (Larry Snyder) writes:

>peter@global.hacktic.nl (Peter Busser) writes:

>>most ports are quite easy. And Waffle is ported to Linux, so there is at least
>>one BBS availlable (that is, if it fits your definition of decent).

>Waffle is about the most cryptic BBS available --  it by no means is
>user friendly -- the user interface is non-standard and "off the wall" requiring
>a steep learning curve.

As it comes out of the box, I would agree. But with some work (especially
running on UNIX where you can easily add a lot of things that are pretty
difficult to do on DOS), it comes out OK.

>Many new users finally hang-up due the the hard to learn user interface.  Users
>want single key commands with hot-keys and ANSI color.

Well, at least that's what they think they want if they've come from
the zillion menus and a zillion hot-keys on most BBS. 

If you think of Waffle as a DOS-based BBS, it leaves a lot to be
desired as most BBS have menus and people get so used to this kind
of user interface they think that it's the only way to proceed. 

If you think of Waffle as a user-interface for a multi-user
multi-tasking system where you have your own home directory and the
commands as languge you speak, it's work OK. 

Dave

--
Dave McLane 
JUNET: davidg@aegis.or.jp (ONLY within Japan: post otherwise)
Nagaokakyoshi, Kyoto Japan Tel: +81-75-951-1168 Fax: +81-75-957-1087
Newsgroups: alt.bbs
From: xx168@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Sysops Sig)
Subject: Re: Freenet
Organization: Case Western Reserve University, Cleveland, Ohio, (USA)
Date: Wed, 26 Aug 92 04:02:14 GMT


In a previous article, zoman@buhub.bradley.edu (Lorenzo Grooms) says:
 
> Does anybody know what happened to Cleveland Free-net, did
> they change there number or what?
 
The number hasn't changed. It's (216) 368-3888. After dialing in,
you have to hit RETURN twice to get a response.
 
There are currently 40 lines on  the rotary for users, soon to be
expanded to 72. Some of the modems now support 9600 baud v32.bis.
Sysops are on a separate rotary.
 
CFN is also accessible via the following Internet addresses:
 
                      freenet-in-a.CWRU.EDU
                      freenet-in-b.CWRU.EDU
                      freenet-in-c.CWRU.EDU
 
Visitors may login and persuse the system. Online registration is
free (just follow the menus). Turnaround time is about six weeks,
with over 1,000 applications per month).
 
The system now  has over 30,000 users, over  400 sysops, and over
1,000 boards, plus interactive access to 3,600 Usenet newsgroups.
 
Internet mail is available, with  gateways to Bitnet and Fidonet.
Realtime gateways are also available to sister systems in sveral
other  cities, and  to over   a dozen  major library  systems and
campuses. User-to-user file transfers are supported.
 
 
            - Jim Kutz (aa387@cleveland.freenet.edu)
Newsgroups: alt.bbs
From: eng20204@nusunix2.nus.sg (LEE MUH HWA)
Subject: RA Doors
Organization: National University of Singapore
Date: Fri, 28 Aug 1992 04:25:56 GMT

Newsgroups: alt.bbs,comp.bbs.misc
From: otto@tukki.jyu.fi (Otto J. Makela)
Subject: Re: BBS Standards Committee Formed
Followup-To: comp.bbs.misc
Organization: The Crimson Permanent Assurance Company
	<1992Aug19.201527.7261@Princeton.EDU> <BtBsp8.DDy@csn.org>
	<1992Aug24.074446.28981@f109f.mil.se>
Date: Tue, 25 Aug 1992 19:51:19 GMT

In article <1992Aug24.074446.28981@f109f.mil.se> nils@f109f.mil.se (Nils Hammar) writes:
   One limit in the RFC-822 format is that the message size is given in
   lines instead of bytes, since it is always faster to process a message
   when you know how large it is, instead of reading line by line, or
   byte by byte.

Actually, RFC822 only specifies that the message headers are separated from
the message body by a empty line, it doesn't specify any special meaning to
the "Lines:" header.  It is only a convenience provided for us humans ;-)
For example, the uucp unbatch format uses byte counts.
-- 
   /* * * Otto J. Makela <otto@jyu.fi> * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * */
  /* Phone: +358 41 613 847, BBS: +358 41 211 562 (V.32bis/USR-HST,24h/d) */
 /* Mail: Kauppakatu 1B18/SF-40100 Jyvaskyla/Finland, ICBM: 62.14N25.44E */
/* * * Computers Rule 01001111 01001011 * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * */
Newsgroups: alt.bbs.lists
From: bdowning@unixland.natick.ma.us (Bill Downing)
Subject: Public UNIX Internet Access sites
Organization: Unixland Public Access Unix & Think_Tank BBS
Distribution: usa
Date: Tue, 1 Sep 1992 17:30:57 GMT

Where would one obtain a list of public UNIX machines with Internet
access in Eastern Mass? Because of a recent move, I may need to find a
machine a little closer to my local calling area.

Regards, 


Bill D. 



-- 
Bill Downing, President		Email: bdowning@unixland.natick.ma.us		
DOWNING ASSOCIATES, INC.
8 Doyle Lane, Hopkinton, MA 01748
508-435-4567
Newsgroups: alt.bbs.lists
From: valet@azur.enet.dec.com ()
Subject: BBS in France ?
Keywords: BBS
Reply-To: valet@azur.enet.dec.com ()
Organization: Digital Equipment Corporation
Date: Wed, 26 Aug 1992 13:31:14 GMT


   Hello, gentlemen...

   Does some of you, in the wide BBS comunity, have some knowledge
about BBS here, in France ?

   I know french telecom are not enthousiast about a competitor to
their dumb and sexy Minitel... but I would be more than than delighted
to get some info (or list) about such BBS.

   Francois (valet@azur.enet.dec.com).
From: festeve@sdrc.COM (Steve Saunders)
Newsgroups: alt.bbs.lists
Subject: WANTED: Boulder/Longmont Colorado BBS list
Date: 30 Aug 92 02:46:11 GMT
Organization: SDRC, Cincinnati
X-Newsreader: Tin 1.1 PL4

Does anyone out there have a BBS list for the Boulder/Longmont Colorado
area?

Thanks
Steve  
Newsgroups: alt.bbs.lists
From: dallas@ravel.udel.edu (Paul Lewis Fincke)
Subject: Looking for a Delaware BBS (area code 302)
Organization: University of Delaware
Date: Thu, 27 Aug 1992 15:55:44 GMT


Howdy,

	Does anyone have a BBS number (preferably free) for Delaware?  I'd 
	especially appreciate it if its a BBS with a list of other BBS's.

	Thanks.
Newsgroups: alt.bbs.lists