HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
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Date:         Sun, 12 Apr 1992 21:26:00 PDT
From:         Michael Bruce McDonald <MCDONALD@OREGON.BITNET>
Subject:      "Kafkaesque"

It's true that i used "Kafkaesque" without defining the term.  While
we've had some very good particular suggestions concerning what the
"Kafkaesque" is, i think that anyone who has read one of Kafka's works
probably has a strong *intuitive* sense of what the term means.  It is
above all, i think, a sense of utter displacement, a sense that the
folkways and institutions of the past, while still very much with us, have
been displaced by something (modernity perhaps) which has yet to fully announce
itself *even as it lords itself over us*; this is what makes the Kafkaesque
simultaneously paranoid and utterly real; this is what enabled Kafka
effectively to predict the nightmarish realities of Nazism and Stalinism
before they actually came to be, and what makes him such a crucial figure
for twentieth century art and artists, a forebear of such diverse figures
as Orwell, William Gibson, Barton Fink, and Margaret Atwood.

And Steve, one dimension of the Kafkaesque *must be* that this is a realm
that renders the notion of SPOILERS entirely ludicrous.  In Kafka,
characters are fallen, and judged, *before they've done anything wrong,
regardless their possible wrongdoing*; in Kafka, the beginning is always
the end, the rest simply the discovery of this horrifyingly simple fact.

MM
From: KRW@PSULIAS.BITNET (WEAVER, KYLE)
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.cinema-l
Subject: Re: Film stars in commercials BEFORE they became famous
Date: 10 Apr 92 20:16:00 GMT
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I don't remember Stallone in a commercial, but he had a bit part as a
subway thug in Woody Allen's "Bananas" in 1971.
Kyle
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Date:         Sun, 12 Apr 1992 21:12:00 EST
From:         "Like the Mary Ellen Carter, rise again!" <ACCDAK@HOFSTRA.BITNET>
Subject:      Welles "The Trial"

I believe Welles' "The Trial" was made in the '60's.  From my dimmer
recesses I recall that he neglected to pay an insurance premium for his
costumes and sets, perhaps he was trying to trim expenses for "The Trial".
Whatever the reason, yup, he lost almost everything in a fire.

My recollection is that Welles had to use a railroad terminal as his set for
the cavernous office shots.  It was from this movie that my cohorts and I
obtained the phrase "ovular" - a non-existant word used in the place of oval.

David ACCDAK@HOFSTRA
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From: aku@leland.Stanford.EDU (Andrew Chia-Tso Ku)
Subject: Re: Europa
Organization: DSG, Stanford University, CA 94305, USA
Date: Mon, 13 Apr 92 06:17:59 GMT

In article <9204122305.AA01200@emoryu1.cc.emory.edu> ilay9228@UNIX.CC.EMORY.EDU (Tanya Augsburg) writes:
>Sysse, No, I haven't heard of Zentropa at all save from this bitnet
>group.  I'd like to hear more, though.
>        Tanya In Atlanta

Zentropa is a Danish movie directed by Lars Von Trier and stars
Jean-Marc Barr, Barbara Sukowa, and Eddie Constantine.  It's been
making the film festival circuit since premiering at Cannes (it'll be
showing at the SF Film Fest in a couple of weeks) but a commercial
release is imminent, since it's been picked up for distribution by 
Miramax.

It's supposed to be stylistically adventurous, with "spectacular
back-projection and superimposition techniques" (I'm quoting Film
Comment.)  I'd speculate that the movie's commercial release was 
delayed and its title changed (from Europa) to avoid any confusion
with Europa,Europa, which shares a similar setting (post-WWII, in
the case of Zentropa).

Andrew
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Date:         Tue, 7 Apr 1992 12:26:00 EST
From:         ACCNEWS@HOFSTRA.BITNET
Subject:      Re: Stephen King Movies List

From: accgsg@hofstra.bitnet (Gary Graffagnino)
Subject: Re: Stephen King Movies List

I don't know for sure, but, did Stephen King do Amazing Stories the T.V. series
a couple of years ago???

>    /\__Edwin Nomura -- enomura@ucsd.edu____________________________________/\
>   / \\               They think our heads are in their hands              / \\
>  /  \\\              But violent use brings violent plans                /  \\
\
> /   \\\\______________________- "Welcome Home (Sanitarium)," Metallica__/
> \\\\
                        They keep me locked up in this cage.  Can't
                        they see it's why my brain says "rage"??


--

                        ____   ___   ___
                       /      /   \  |  \ \   /
                       | ___  |___|  |__|  \ /
                       |    \ |   |  | \    |
                       \____/ |   |  |  \   |

"I go back to the immortal words of Socrates who said
        'I drank WHAT?'."
                        -Val Kilmer (Real Genius)
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Date:         Tue, 14 Apr 1992 10:37:00 EST
From:         "Like the Mary Ellen Carter, rise again!" <ACCDAK@HOFSTRA.BITNET>
Subject:      Re: Stone & The Doors

My recollection of the 60's coincides with that of Rife and Stone's.  The late
Bill Graham, an unimpeachable authority on the rock scene however was quoted
by Rolling Stone as saying that Stone's depiction was all wrong.  Whatever the
case, the students withwhom I saw The Doors did not come away from the showing
with a warm happy glow.

Most had expected a celebration of sex, drugs, and rock and roll.  What they got
   was a picture of a likeable guy killing himself with drugs and booze.  Part o
   f
what made me like The Doors was the way the details of the apartments and the
way people dressed matched my memories.  There was also the sense that it (what
ever it was) was slipping away even as we tried to retain it.

David  ACCDAK@HOFSTRA
From: rowhite@wrdis01.af.mil (Ronald D. White)
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.cinema-l
Subject: Re: death of sam kinnison
Date: 17 Apr 92 14:36:09 GMT
Organization: 1926CCSG Robins AFB

In article <CINEMA-L%92041615101020@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU>, PMCKANE1@UA1VM.BITNET (patrick mckane) writes:
> i'm never happy to see anyone die, but can the world really mourn the
> passing of another loud misogynist and homophobe?
> 
	Excuse me, but, did you know this guy?  Or are you just basing your
	all-mighty judgement on his stage persona and comedy routines?
	I guess, using the same logic, when you die, we shouldn't mourn the
	passing of another loud pretentious spouter of current PC-based 
	bull. 


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Date:         Tue, 14 Apr 1992 01:42:00 PDT
From:         Michael Bruce McDonald <MCDONALD@OREGON.BITNET>
Subject:      older films

i want to join the chorus of voices supporting the idea of discussing older
films . . . what did y'all think of *Reversal of Fortune*?

MM
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Date:         Thu, 16 Apr 1992 14:30:41 PDT
From:         Jennifer Porro <BL.JMP@RLG.BITNET>
Subject:      ENEMIES

REPLY TO 04/16/92 11:49 FROM CINEMA-L@AUVM.BITNET "Discussions on all forms of
Cinema": Re: PPS to Reversal

I can confirm that Isaac Bashevis Singer wrote ENEMIES: A LOVE STORY.

Jennifer Porro

To:  CINEMA-L@AUVM.BITNET
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Date:         Sun, 12 Apr 1992 20:38:09 -0400
From:         Steve Portigal <stevep@SNOWHITE.CIS.UOGUELPH.CA>
Subject:      Re: Kafka
X-To:         CINEMA-L@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU

Tanya referred to: Orson Welles' *The Trial*

   I didn't know there was a movie of this.  I have just started reading the
book.  What are your feelings about the film (no spoilers please, I'm
looking forward to exploring the book)?  Do you think it's on video?

Steve
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Date:         Wed, 8 Apr 1992 22:20:51 EDT
From:         "W. Stephen Marquardt" <WASTMART@UGA.BITNET>
Subject:      Re: Gilliam Viking movie

John Cleese was in Erik the Viking as the Black Knight who tries to stop the
expedition to Valhalla.

--Stephen

"Brave Sir Robin boldly ran away." --MP and the HG
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Date:         Mon, 13 Apr 1992 12:04:08 -0400
From:         Steve Portigal <stevep@SNOWHITE.CIS.UOGUELPH.CA>
Subject:      Re: "Kafkaesque"
X-To:         CINEMA-L@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU

>And Steve, one dimension of the Kafkaesque *must be* that this is a realm
>that renders the notion of SPOILERS entirely ludicrous.  In Kafka,
>characters are fallen, and judged, *before they've done anything wrong,
>regardless their possible wrongdoing*; in Kafka, the beginning is always
>the end, the rest simply the discovery of this horrifyingly simple fact.

  Yes, but perhaps I wish to discover what Kafkaesque truly is, for myself,
instead of having specifics of the book/film revealed for me?  Readers
in Kafkaesque time did not have as clear a notion of his style as we
do now that it has influenced so many other things.  Besides, I was
basically referring to specifics (when the protagonist is beheaded and
then his head survives in order to foretell the doom of the executioner
would be an example of a spoiler that I *don't* want to hear).  I have
a pretty general idea of what form the story will take.
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Date:         Fri, 10 Apr 1992 08:44:50 +0300
From:         CFAVNER@WEIZMANN.WEIZMANN.AC.IL
Subject:      Hook

Sorry for being so  late... I saw Hook last night.  It was great, incredible,
unbelievable...I'll soon  run out of superlatives...  I could not think  of a
better casting  for this film...  Does anyone know  who played Ruphio  ? (the
Thai  boy  ?) If  this  was  already discussed  here, please  mail it  to  me
personally...)
                                           AVNER
                           GOOOOOOOOOOOOOOD MORNING NEVERLAND ! ! ! ! !

=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
Avner Haran                     Bitnet:   CFAVNER@WEIZMANN.BITNET
Faculty of Chemistry            Internet: CFAVNER@WEIZMANN.WEIZMANN.AC.IL
The Weizmann Inst. of Science
Rehovot - ISRAEL
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
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Date:         Wed, 8 Apr 1992 13:31:03 EXP
From:         Stephen Chang <90403035@KRSNUCC1.BITNET>
Subject:      Twin Peaks

  I'm sending from Korea and they didn't have Twin Peaks on local TV here
( they did in Japan and it was a great success ) but I watched
it in the American Forces TV.  I liked it a lot but unfortunately the
final episode was not broadcast.  Can anyone tell me how it ends?  Or did
it just end in Cooper going in to the White Lodge and becoming Bob?
  And one more thing for the list.  I've heard that a movie version of
Twin Peaks is being ( or has been ) produced.  When is it going to be
released?  Does anyone know?
  Thanks in advance.

Stephen Chang
90403035@krsnucc1.bitnet
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Date:         Thu, 9 Apr 1992 13:14:31 EDT
From:         Karrie Agostinelli <AP201092@BROWNVM.BITNET>
Subject:      Re: Film stars in commercials BEFORE they became famous

Wasn't Sylvester Stallone in a commercial (obviously before he made Rocky)?
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Date:         Thu, 9 Apr 1992 09:51:44 EDT
From:         Gayle Williams <GWILLIAM@UGA.BITNET>
Subject:      RE: CIvil War Films

Actually, David, Glory and Gone with the Wind were among the first to be
mentioned.

Do add to the list:

Raintree County
Shenandoah

There is a John Wayne/William Holden film possibly directed by John Ford that's
Civil War era but its name escapes me.

Gayle Williams
University of Georgia Libraries
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Date:         Tue, 14 Apr 1992 02:19:00 PDT
From:         Michael Bruce McDonald <MCDONALD@OREGON.BITNET>
Subject:      Stone & other filmic greats

Peter G, while i appreciate your thoughtful attempt to get past the rather
silly claim that Oliver Stone is somehow "evil," i think that the comparison
you set up between Stone, Scorsese and Allen is patently unfair.  God, just
*look* at Stone's topics; those other cats are *not* making films about
contested areas of U.S. and world history, my very deep appreciation for
what Scorsese and Allen *do* offer us notwithstanding.  i agree that Stone
tends to bludgeon us with his point-of-view, but we get bludgeoned every day
with out f***ing GOVERNMENT'S POINT OF VIEW.  If we lived in a world where
most folks with media access refrained from bludgeoning us, then i'd be more
apt to agree that Stone overdoes it.  But given the fact that we DON'T live in
such a world, i welcome Stone's bludgeoning as a necessary corrective to our
f***ing government's frontal attack.  Also, i think that Stone is getting more
subtle, in fact; i know that most of you won't agree with this, but i actually
think that JFK is a fairly subtle film, more suggestive than propagandistic.
in my view, this subtlety is accomplished through the film's brilliant,
restless use of montage, of a number of story lines, and in the fact that i,
for one, felt free to draw my own conclusions about the assasination.  i
certainly think that JFK leaves more to the imagination than does the silly
plot of *Silence of the Lambs*--regarding which, someone mentioned Jeffrey
Dahmer, but the probable *banality* of Dahmer's sensibility (his horrific
*acts* nothwithstanding) is precisely what *SOTL* *cannot countenance*; i
just don't buy the notion that there are a lot of *brilliant monsters*
running around out there, folks, nor do i believe in the literal existence
of Satan . . .

MM
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Date:         Wed, 15 Apr 1992 09:47:36 +0000
From:         the Freshman Scott Huddle <huddle@VTTCF.CC.VT.EDU>
Subject:      Re: Sam K.
X-To:         CINEMA-L@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU

[The following contains naughty bits, break now]

Another example of Kinnison's "humor".

"What were Christ's last words?"

[dropping to the floor and pounding his fist against it]

[blam]  Ahhhhh!
[blam]  Ahhhhhhhhh!
[blam]  Ahhhhhhhhhhhhhh!

-scott (huddle@vttcf.cc.vt.edu)
From: Peter.Giordano@WILLIAMS.EDU
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.cinema-l
Subject: Stone, Allen, Scorsese
Date: 12 Apr 92 14:39:00 GMT
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The other day I called Oliver Stone evil; let me explain what I mean
by making some comparisons between three directors: Oliver Stone, Woody Allen,
and Martin Scorsese.
In common: they are all independent filmakers who are very concerned about
literate scripts, technically beautiful film making, crisp editing, thoughtful
uses of music, morality, visions of the past, montage, and less interested
in box office than in intelligent cinema.
Woody Allen makes very personal films and often evokes a clear and precise
image of the past (Radio Days, Zelig, Purple Rose of Cario [actually doesn't
JFK have more in common with ZELIG than another American film?]), but nothing
about the way the films are shot, edited or scored demands the viewer to see
the film as anything but Woody Allen's personal views, his own diary, etc. In
fact I think he would be upset if somebody tried to attach meaning or truth
to these films. He wants to entertain and cause people to think and come to
their own conclusions.
Scorsese also makes personal films about the past (RAGING BULL, GOODFELLAS)
often seen through the eyes of his "hero", but although his film are jam
packed with virtuoso camera work, brillant editing, and wonderfully
suggestive uses of music, he manages to keep a distance and perspective
on what he's film which allows the viewer to think and make his/her own
judgements about morality and other issues raised. He neither vilifies nor
sanctifies. He treats the audience like it has a brain.
Oliver Stone evokes a personal image of the past, deals with moral issues,
etc. but he hits the audience over the head with a hammer. In Oliver
Stone's cinematic vision there is no point of view but his. The audience
has no brain and needs to be told everything, over and over again.
Although I think I might share Stone's views on Capitalism and Greed (WALL
STREET), Viet Nam (PLATOON, BORN ON THE 4th OF JULY), Latin America (SAL-
VADOR), and the Kennedy assasination (JFK) I am always offended by the
heavy handed way he tries to manipulate what he considers to be the
truth. Now I know what about to say next will cause a lot of you
guys to go nuts but in my opinion Oliver Stone makes the same kind of
movies that were made in Gernamy between say 1936 and 1945); if you
don't believe me try screening some of Stone's work along side OLYMPIAD
(just to name one less hateful example).
All this is just my opinion.
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Date:         Sun, 12 Apr 1992 22:55:00 EDT
From:         DMICHEL@DUKEMVS.BITNET
Subject:      Welles "The Trial"

Confirmed: it is available on video.
........................................................................

          MICHEL

          Michel Deschuyteneer              (DMICHEL@DUKEMVS.BITNET)
          Div. Neurology, Dept. Medicine, Duke Univ. Medical Center.
          Durham, North Carolina; USA.


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Date:         Fri, 10 Apr 1992 22:46:48 CST
From:         S James <sjames@ADAM.ADELAIDE.EDU.AU>
Subject:      Bill Murray-H.S.Thompson
X-To:         CINEMA-L@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU

I just found out our local art cinema cancelled a screening of
Where the Buffalo Roam, starring Bill Murray as Hunter S. Thompson.
It was supposed be on at 11:15pm to-morrow night...sob

Has anyone seen this film, I have only ever seen it screened once
several years ago. I seem to remember it as being rather good!









Steve James

Mylor -"Up in Them There Hills"
South Australia
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Date:         Wed, 8 Apr 1992 01:17:02 EDT
From:         Zimri Smith <ST701790@BROWNVM.BITNET>
Subject:      Re: medieval film

Anyone suggested "Jabberwocky" yet? I loved the depiction of the
middle ages as disgusting, filthy, and probably incredibly smelly.
Probably a lot more accurate than sanitized/romanticized
depictions.
Quite funny, too, as it was done by various Pythons (and directed,
I think, by Terry Gilliam). (Or maybe it was Terry Jones.)
(Or maybe it was Anne Elk, a director long ignored by the Academy.)

-----------------------------------------------------------------
Zimri Smith                           |
internet: ST701790@brownvm.brown.edu  |           ni!
                                      |
-----------------------------------------------------------------
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Date:         Tue, 7 Apr 1992 11:17:56 CST
From:         Ricardo Noyola Picazzo <AL282897@VMTECSLP.BITNET>
Subject:      medieval films

_The Name of the Rose_ , _Hamlet_ and _The Pit and the Pendulum_ are the
best medieval films for me.
   I remember a film staring Sean Connery about a green knight, but i can't
remember the name. All I remember is that the film was too bad.

 Ricardo.
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Date:         Mon, 6 Apr 1992 13:15:00 EST
From:         Navin Ganeshan <NGANESHA@UDCVAX.BITNET>
Subject:      RE: White Men Can't Jump

Christian Taube <TAUBE@OREGON.BITNET> said:

>I saw this with a bunch of buddies last night, and I'm
>grateful they were there. If you don't like sex or
>basketball or, ideally, both of them featured prominently
>in a movie, don't see it. And also, unbelievably, it runs
>for nearly two and a half hours (though I didn't check
>the _exact_ length). Somebody must have goofed up on
>the screenplay or in the editing room or both. What
>the movie had to say would have been OK for a regular
>length, 90-minute flick.

    I thought it was funny....mildly hilarious.  The best part was the
    first 50 mins...the witty exchanges between the players, the choice
    insults etc.  But then came the fatal flaw - they had a plot !!??!!
    And like Christian said, it was long !

    Some great basketball..and some pretty good sex scenes.

[Spoiler follows]

           ******** Major Spoiler alert  ********


















>And: I didn't get the deal with the two pimps or whatever
>they were supposed to be. Not the whole story, I mean.

    Not much to it...they were loan-sharks that Woody owed money to.

=====------
Navin S. Ganeshan             E-Mail: NGANESHA@UDCVAX.BITNET
Academic Computing Services   Phone:  (202) 282-7343
University of DC, Wash DC.    #include <std.disclaimer>
=====------
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Date:         Mon, 13 Apr 1992 09:04:17 MET
From:         Sysse Engberg <sysse@ANNE.IHI.KU.DK>
Subject:      Re: Europa
X-To:         CINEMA-L@auvm.american.edu

Tanya, I only just got your post and I see that Andrew has already answered
some of your questions.
The film made somewhat of a sensation here in Denmark when it was released
right after the Cannes festival where everyone expected it to get the
Golden Palms. As I said, Lars von Trier, the enfant terrible of
danish Cinema, got into a fit when he was awarded a minor prize (best
technical performance, I think) - according to some, he threw his
diploma on the floor. But this may only be gossip.
I didn't particularly like the film - but then I'm not crazy about
von Trier and the *persona* he creates out of himself for the media.
I'd love to give you more details, but I don't have time right now
since I'm leaving for Cyprus in a few hours.
If you want me to write in a week's time when I'm back again, tell
me over the net, or in a personal mail.
Sysse in Copenhagen
sysse%anne.ihi.ku.dk

I'd loveto join in the Kafka discussion, but NO TIME (sigh!)
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