HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: myhui@bnr.ca (Michael Hui)
Newsgroups: rec.autos.sport
Subject: Re: F1:Magic fuels and more...
Date: 11 Apr 92 21:45:12 GMT
Organization: Bell-Northern Research Ltd., Ottawa, Canada

In article <1992Apr11.152109.27802@wes.on.ca> tomh@wes.on.ca (Tom Haapanen) writes:
>But "magic" fuels provide such
>a huge advantage, at such enormous monetary cost, and from a source far
>removed from the racing world, that they contribute nothing to the sport.

Remember that F1 is also a furtile ground for proving mechanical
designs. A more potent fuel puts out more power, hence stressing the
engine components that much more proportionally, hence proving that a
winning engine design, like the Renault, can consistently last a whole
race at that high stress without incident.

Is it not true that no other F1 motor presently has proven itself
capable of enduring more stress than the Renault used by the Williams
team? The mechanical engineers who designed that engine has my full
admiration.

Of course, given the same fuel, another motor may well prove itself
just as capable in lasting a whole race. But even given a lesser fuel,
supposedly, the Honda motor hasn't even proven anything yet !

Renault should re-enter the North American sports car market as soon
as possible, and offer a de-tuned F1 replacement engine for the Acura NSX.

     Michael MY Hui          myhui@bnr.ca           Ottawa Canada
From: welty@balltown.cma.com (richard welty)
Newsgroups: rec.autos.sport
Subject: SCCA flagging, whites
Date: 8 Apr 92 18:07:05 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: New York State Institute for Sebastian Cabot Studies

i'm planning to start working corners at some SCCA events this summer,
as a way of being involved while i'm putting an ITB project together.
anyway, i have no idea what a good source of proper clothing for corner
working is; can any of the flaggers out there give me a pointer?

thanks,
  richard
-- 
richard welty                            518-393-7228
welty@cabot.balltown.cma.com
From: thos@suite.sw.oz.au (Thomas Cohen)
Newsgroups: rec.autos.sport
Subject: Re: Senna bashing
Date: 13 Apr 92 22:38:58 GMT
Organization: Softway Pty Ltd

In <21615.9204091309@dcs.glasgow.ac.uk> roberto@dcs.glasgow.ac.uk (Roberto S. M. Barros) writes:

>Thomas Cohen writes:

>| Personally, I think you've got this arse-about. Mansell and Senna
>| would be toe to toe, and Prost, Berger & Schumacher would be very
>| close behind (actually, maybe Schumacher would be with Mansell and
>| Senna.)

>My intention was to talk about winning the championship not races.
>Mansell is very fast but, when under pressure, makes many mistakes 
>and breaks his car more than the other top drivers.

I wouldn't say he makes more mistakes. I may agree that his car breaks
more often. Well, I never said he was light on machinery.

>| Actually, as you think about it, Piquet has never really shone in a
>| team with a fast team-mate. At Brabham he was virtually alone for
>| many years, and thus the focus of the team's effort. At Williams he
>| was shown up by Mansell, at Benetton he was OK, but as soon as
>| Schumacher came along he was shown up again. Apart from his glory
>| days with Brabham-BMW (not forgetting that he had a couple of hundred
>| Hp more than anyone else), he really hasn't shown up that highly.

>I don't think you are being fair here. Although Piquet did not have 
>a competitive team mate in his Brabham days, his car was never the 
>best either.

It was far and away from being the worst, and with the BMW engine,
he had oodles of power.

>In 81, the best car was the Williams of Jones and Reutmann. But the team 
>failed to decide which of the drivers would be n.1 (as in 86) and lost 
>the championship. 

Being an Australian, I prefer to see it as Reuteman not following
instructions and letting AJ win at one particular track (Spanish GP?)

>In 83, the championship was very very close between 3 teams and was only 
>decided in the last race. More than that, the most powerful engine was 
>Prost's Renault (the only turbo), remember? 

Nope, the BMW was a turbo and certainly quite powerful. Not to mention
the awesome inefficiency of the Renault team who according to many
things I've read since then, just couldn't adjust at anywhere near
the pace that was required to be a consistent front-runner in F1.

>Finally, don't forget last year, when Mansell had the best car for at 
>least 2/3 of the season and (paraphrasing James Hunt) a team-mate one 
>"usually can only dream of", but failed to win the championship again. 

It can be difficult to catch up on a 4GP winning streak. Plus the rules
were different for counting points. Now it is a straight run to the 
post, before you couldn't afford to waste time with 2nd places.

>Roberto Barros
-- 
thos cohen  				       |Softway Pty Ltd
 The best way to make a Japanese engineer wince|ACSnet:         thos@softway.oz
 is (when talking about an NSX) to say slowly  |UUCP: ...!uunet!softway.oz!thos
 'but its _not a Ferrari_ is it?' R.Bulgin, CAR|Internet:    thos@softway.oz.au
Newsgroups: rec.autos.sport
From: jpoller@novell.com (Contents may have settled during Shipping)
Subject: Re: IMSA frequencies wanted
Organization: The Electoral Collage
Date: Fri, 17 Apr 1992 15:22:37 GMT

In article <TiscJB1w161w@gator.rn.com> djd@gator.rn.com (Dennis Dunkman) writes:
=> 
=> Many more frequencies were in use, but these were the only ones
=> that I could relate to a specific car.

Since I no longer flag at a radio track, I don't follow this anymore.
But, I got some info.  I just go the latest Pegasus Catalog, and they
list:

Part Number 5088: Racing Freqeuncy List (teams, tracks, officials,
etc).  As an added bonus we even throw in a few other frequencies such
as sports teams.  WE'LL EVEN GIVE YOU *FREE* UPDATES WHEN YOU ORDER
FROM US FOR A WHOLE YEAR.!

Price $9.95

Pegasus Auto Racing Supplies, Inc.
2475 South 179th Street
New Berlin, WI 53146.

Phone 414-782-0880
Fax 414-782-0484

DISCLAIMER: I am not associated with Pegasus, except as a happy
customer.


JLP

=%=%=%=%=%=%=%=%=%=%=%=%=%=%=%=%=%=%=%=%=%=%=%=%=%=%=%=%=%=%=%=%=%=%=%=%=%=%=%=%
Lex Talionis, 'To The Pain'
From: Alan.Crowder@prg.oxford.ac.uk
Newsgroups: rec.autos.sport
Subject: F1
Date: 15 Apr 92 07:28:04 GMT
X-Mailer: mail-news 2.0.3


Reply-To: iong@madvax.uop.edu
Organization: University of the Pacific, Stockton, CA

<Hello world......

|  I just got off the Compuserve motorsports network where I read a very
|interesting rumour that the new Williams FW15 will feature, among other
|things, ABS and a fully automatic gearbox!!!

|  The ABS rumour was reported by *two* Japanese sources, although they
|conflicted as to when the new car would be released. One said the upcoming
|Spanish GP, while another the British GP.

|  Anyone here able to substantiate these? I certainly hope so......

|IU-JIN

|**** MANSELL FOR CHAMPION - FINALLY ****

Hi

I spoke with a friend at Williams Grand Prix Engineering just last week
and she said that the new car was basically finished and ready to go, but
that its introduction would be delayed untill the rest caught up with what
they had already got ie the FW14B.

They have all the spares etc ready but simply dont want to show the world
the new spec car. After the first three GP's why bother showing your hand
to early.

Yes!  Mansell will take the crown this year.

Alan
Newsgroups: rec.autos.sport
From: johnson@wrs.com (David Johnson)
Subject: Re: F1 - water injection.
Organization: Wind River Systems, Inc.
Date: Wed, 8 Apr 1992 01:22:06 GMT

You? Picky? Naaaaaawwwwww.

>DAVE____________________MAY THE G-FORCE BE WITH YOU!____________johnson@WRS.COM
From: bruno@hpfcso.FC.HP.COM (Bruno Melli)
Date: Wed, 8 Apr 1992 16:24:37 GMT
Subject: Re: Blocking vs. Demolition Derby (was: Senna bashing)
Organization: Hewlett-Packard, Fort Collins, CO, USA
Newsgroups: rec.autos.sport

>>If things stay the same between Williams and McLaren this year Senna's
>>stats will dip under Prost's at the end of the season. Then you will have
>>the Prost Fans rubb it in by telling you that Prost is such a great driver
>>that he can overcome Senna's stats while he is not even racing.
>>

> So by your argument, if say a new grand prix star were to win his
> first race, for sake of an argument assume it is Al Jr in a Williams,
> then never races again, his wins/starts ratio is 100%.
> That would put at the top of the table, effectively for ever.

This was not an argument. This was an attempt at showing that these stats 
were bogus in the first place.

bruno.
Newsgroups: rec.autos.sport
From: taylor@sun.soe.clarkson.edu (Ross Taylor,Peyt312,6652,2655436)
Subject: F1 Spain live on ESPN
Organization: Clarkson University
Date: Mon, 6 Apr 1992 12:43:40 GMT

As announced at the end of the F1 coverage from Brazil, the next race
is May 3 and ESPN is planning to show it live starting at 7.50 AM
Eastern (Daylight savings?) time.

I don't suppose that this will stop all those last minute queries
from those of you that won't write this down.

Ross Taylor

PS: Bob Varsha was missing from ESPN coverage this weekend.  Where was
he? David Hobbs and Victor someone sounded as though they were in a studio
and not at the track at all.  Being in the north country means I can watch
both CBC and ESPN at the same time.  I watched CBC since it started
earlier and taped ESPN.  CBC took the Eurosport (?) feed again but I still
did not find out who was commentator with John Watson.

Newsgroups: rec.autos.sport
From: b790zcd@utarlg.uta.edu (George M. Smiley)
Subject: Re: Winning and !winning (was Re: F1: Piquet)
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41    
Organization: The University of Texas at Arlington
Date: Thu, 9 Apr 1992 13:37:00 GMT

In article <thos.702790786@suite.sw.oz.au>
 thos@suite.sw.oz.au (Thomas Cohen) writes...
>In <5APR199221420779@utarlg.uta.edu>
 b790zcd@utarlg.uta.edu (George M. Smiley) writes:
> 
>>In article <thos.702513817@suite.sw.oz.au>
, thos@suite.sw.oz.au (Thomas Cohen) writes...
>>>In <1992Apr2.153632.2921@fs7.ece.cmu.edu>
 mayor@bayes.ece.cmu.edu (Gilberto S. Mayor) writes:
>>> 
>>>>>Would you prefer to watch someone winning races or winning a championship?
>>>>>I'd rather watch a driver like Gilles Villeneuve trying to win each and 
>>>>>every lap, than someone like Piquet, content to collect championship 
>>>>>points for second or third places.
>>> 
>>>>I can not agree with you. What is the goal of F1 ? Obviously it is win the
>>>>championship. Every sport has its own rules. If points were given to the
>>> 
>>>As Stirling Moss put it "you may drive fast, you may even win races but 
>>>unless you take every corner as fast as you can, you're not a racing
>>>driver" (quote necessarily mangled by memory.)
>>> 
>>Yeah, but, Stirling Moss never won a chapionship, so I guess that makes
>>him a poor source of quote.
> 
>Guess again. If you take the World Championship by itself to be the pinnacle
>maybe.  As I said in reply to another post, I don't see the Championship
>to be the be all to end all. Stirling Moss never won the championship
>true, but the whole thread started because someone (Bruce McCulley?)
>said that a racer is one who finishes, usually winning. My definition
>of a racer is more in line with Moss's above quote. If you do not drive
>as fast as your car is capable of going, then you are just collecting
>starting money.
> 
>All this reminds me of a quote from 'Spy Story' by Len Deighton :
>"You show me a good loser, and I'll show you a loser"
> 
>>George.
> 
>-- 
>thos cohen

Wrong again, the World Championship is the pinnacle, they only run races
so they can crown a world champion. Back before Mansell started driving,
Moss was known as the British driver who won the most races without 
winning a championship - not exactley a positive thing to be known as. The
problem with him and many other 'racers' is that when the car starts to
degrade because of the flogging they have administered to it, they just
keep driving as fast as they were like nothing was wrong. This
both endangers themself as well as anybody who happens to be near them 
when the motor blows and spills oil all over the track. A real racer
would either pull over or try to nurse the car to the finish. In other
words your definition of a racer is someone who wants to die a racer.
I think if you asked the modern racers as to which definition more
suited them they would go with Bruces. The only time your definition
applies is during qualifying and, as Mansell now knows, even that has
its limitations.

George.
Newsgroups: rec.autos.sport
From: rodman@ucsu.Colorado.EDU (RODMAN  CONNIE LYNN)
Subject: In need of sponsorship ideas!
Organization: University of Colorado, Boulder
Date: Tue, 14 Apr 1992 17:07:33 GMT

Hello everyone!

I was wondering if some of you out there may be able to help me:

Last Aug I took the Elf-Winfield course at Paul Ricard. I was not quite good
enough to qualify for the advanced course that year, but was told I would 
benefit greatly from taking the basic course again. (For anyone who doesn't
know, the "Advanced course" is just a quick elimination trial to select the
best students to go to the finals in the Pilote Elf competition.) This June
I will be going back to try once more. I want to get into professional 
racing, but am running into financial problems (who isn't!).
I was hoping that some of you might be able to give me some sponsorship ideas.
Who to approach, how to approach them, who may be interested etc. . .

Anything would be greatly appreciated.

Please reply by mail to gjackson@slate.mines.colorado.edu.

Thanks in advance!!

						--graham
From: usatoday@daimi.aau.dk (Peter Dalsgaard)
Newsgroups: rec.autos.sport
Subject: F1 GP - Brazil. Result - comments
Date: 6 Apr 92 08:11:17 GMT
Organization: DAIMI: Computer Science Department, Aarhus University, Denmark

Result at Interlagos:

1: Nigel Mansell
2: Ricardo Patrese
3: Michael Schumacher
4: Jean Alesi
5: Ivan Capelli
6: Michele Alboreto

Berger went out on the first lap or so, due to problems with the 
semiauto gearbox. Senna went out on lap 18, also with gearbox
problems. Actually he lost 4th (i think) before he had to give up.

Nigel and Patrese was dominating the race as usually. They were the
only drivers on the lead lap at the finish.

Good race from Schumacher too.

FINALLY: Ferrari got their act together, showing a good and competetive
performance over the weekend (not compared with Williams). They seem to
have found some consistency, with both cars finishing the race. Give them
a little more time, and maybe they will find the perfect balance, and the
right engine for the F92A. Currently they are racing 1991 modified engines, 
because the 1992 engine is unreliable and perhaps down on power.

A top six for Alboreto, well done. Actually he was crawling all over
Capelli the last 10 laps or so, but didn't have the mustard to squeeze
through.

Looking forward to Barcelona.

--
   *** Peter Dalsgaard               ***  
   *** usatoday@daimi.aau.dk         *** 
   *** University of Aarhus, Denmark ***
   *** Only Amiga makes it possible  ***
From: ah335@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Richard Banks)
Newsgroups: rec.autos.sport
Subject: Re: F1 HP
Date: 11 Apr 92 19:05:13 GMT
Article-I.D.: usenet.1992Apr11.190513.11433
Reply-To: ah335@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Richard Banks)
Organization: Case Western Reserve University, Cleveland, OH (USA)


In a previous article, johnmac@reg.triumf.ca (JOHNMAC*DOUGALL TRIUMF OPERATIONS) says:

>In article <9APR199215542928@utarlg.uta.edu>, b790zcd@utarlg.uta.edu 
>(George M. Smiley) writes...
>>In article <1992Apr9.171953.844@rti.rti.org>, jbp@rti.rti.org writes...
>>>In article <1APR199221005548@utarlg.uta.edu> George M. Smiley writes:
>>> 
>>>>Last years Yamaha ox99 made 700 bhp at 12,000 rpm.
>>> 
>>>Hmmm....that looks like about 0.2 hp per cc.  Let's compare with a
>>>stock Yamaha kart motor which has about 20 hp and 100cc displacement
>>>-- also 0.2 hp per cc!  But, the kart motor will rev to 14,000+ rpm
>>>and its cheaper...... so there!     :-)
>>>-- 
>>>John Posthill  jbp@rti.rti.org
>> 
>>Okay, let us compare that to Yamaha's 500cc motorcycling GP motor.
>>It makes 170 bhp at 13,500 rpm - that would be .34 bhp per cc. It is
>>not as cheap as the karting motor, yet it is not as expensive as the
>>F1 motor, so there there :-).
>>Too bad they cannot maintain those kind of numbers at 3500cc, that would
>>come in at 1190 bhp at ????? rpm, and we would back to the prime turbo
>>era with 5-valves per cylinder Yamaha on top.
>> 
>> 
>>George.
>
>The Yamaha 500cc GP motor is a two stroke so comparison with a four stroke is
>not appropriate.  Now if they could build a three and half litre two stroke
>and somehow fit it all (the tuned exhaust pipes that is) into a F1 chassis...
>

You have to remember to. F1 engines are under fuel restraints. They start
with about 210 litres of fuel and can't add any during the race. The engine
management computer has to be set-up somewhat lean especially for the
engines that aren't as efficient like the Lamboghini and Yamaha. If F1
cars were allowed to re-fuel I would expect to see a big increase in 
horsepower of the 3.5 engines. 
>-john.
>
From: jbp@rti.rti.org
Newsgroups: rec.autos.sport
Subject: Re: Jordan-Yamaha
Date: 15 Apr 92 22:27:06 GMT
Organization: Research Triangle Institute, RTP, NC

In article <1992Apr13.102358.1@vax1.tcd.ie> scolucci@vax1.tcd.ie writes:
>	Would anybody out there care to share with my depression resulting
>from the (mis)fortunes of the Jordan-Yamaha team in this current F1 season?
>Eddie Jordan and his crew were entirely responsible for generating a sizeable
>intrest in Formula One motorsport here in Ireland that was previously non-
>existant, thus making it rather painful for the long-time devotees among us to
>have to witness disaster after undeserved disaster strike Jordan-Yamaha down.

That's racing...........there ain't no easy way to the top.
-- 
John Posthill  jbp@rti.rti.org
From: cornutt@lambda.msfc.nasa.gov (David Cornutt)
Subject: Re: Bristol: Any comments? I missed it on TV....
Organization: NASA/MSFC
Date: Tue, 7 Apr 1992 22:47:15 GMT

pmh2962@zeus.tamu.edu (Pat Hayes) writes:

>Kulwicki!  He must have had his sh*t together!  Why does he know this track
>so much better than the others?  My other Wisconsin-mate finished 5th -- but
>MRN never mentioned Trickle's efforts.

Funny, I was listening to MRN en route too (between Atlanta and Huntsville,
natch) and I remember Trickle being mentioned several times.  Right at
the end they did quit talking about everyone except Kulwicki and Jarrett,
but that was unstanderable since Schrader and Labonte were obviously not
going to challenge, and the rest of the top-10 were each on laps by
themselves.  (Definitely not a typical WC event.  I can't remember the
last time I saw a car in the top 10 who was five laps down!)

>	Definitely WAS NOT a Ford show; the MRN moderators played some clips
>of conversations with GM crew chiefs.  Apparently the Chev crews are now
>racing to be the *best of the GM* teams -- and have conceded the championship
>to the Ford teams.  What a crock!  That is a darn weak attempt at getting
>sympathy for the poor underpowered (gee, they have more than we have) GM
>teams.  Grow up, R.Childress.

Yeah, it's a crock.  But I think it's become obvious that NASCAR is not
going to do anything anytime soon.

>	Nice gesture by J.Johnson -- getting Sterling into Davey's car
>to get some points for the 28 team. Any word on Allison's injury?

Yeah, very interesting, especially since Marlin was the guy that Davey
and Larry McReynolds blamed for the Talledega debacle last year.  The
last word I heard was pulled muscles in rib cage and a twisted ankle,
neither serious enough to keep him out of the car at Wilkes.

>	Great race by Dale Jarrett!  He looked almost as fast <at the end> as
>Kulwicki.  Nice pick-and-go by AK on the Cope car to get the pass < I stopped
>in a truckstop in TN to watch the last 30 laps!! > done on Jarrett!  I agree
>with some others predicting a first-season win for the Joe Gibbs team.

Well, I've got to admit I was predicting a pretty miserable first season,
and up until the last two weeks that prediction was holding up.  But
it's nice to see "the other Dale" get a good ride.

P.S.: did anyone notice Dave Mader in the Melling car?  If they come up
with some sponsorship, the Alabama Gang just might have another contender!
From: CWL103@psuvm.psu.edu (Chad.....)
Newsgroups: rec.autos.sport
Subject: Re: Seen on a tee-shirt...
Date: 15 Apr 92 14:40:41 GMT
Organization: HAM - Hackers Against MUDs
X-Subliminal-Message: IBM/370 assembler is your friend.

I always liked the one that says.....

Injection is nice,   but I'd rather be blown....

Chad.
Newsgroups: rec.autos.sport
From: tomh@wes.on.ca (Tom Haapanen)
Subject: F1: Magic fuels -- and a proposal
Organization: Waterloo Engineering Software
Date: Tue, 07 Apr 1992 16:35:34 GMT


While it's refreshing to see that it's Williams out front this year rather
than McLaren, it still disturbs me to see this wide a gap between the
frontrunners and the midfielders.  I believe that a big part of this gap
is the special fuel used by the top teams.

The rumoured advantage gained by use the special concoctions ranges from
30 hp to 70 hp -- surely a huge advantage to make up for a smaller team
who already is having to cope with a smaller design and testing budget, and
without any major manufacturer engine development support.  In the past
the gap wasn't, IMHO, so big, as smaller teams were able to get close to
the front by having a brilliant chassis make up for some of the deficiencies
of an ordinary engine.  Now, though, you compound the 60 hp advantage that
a Honda has over a Judd V10 with another 60 hp for using Shell fuel -- and
there is *NO*WAY* any team will be able to keep up with that sort of a
difference.

This would not be so bad if it were possible to do fuel development on a
smaller budget (like John Judd and Ilmor, who developed competitive engines
for 1/20th of what Honda spends annually), but unfortunately the technology
is too advanced for the research to be done by anyone but the top few oil
companies in the world.  And do you think that Shell, Elf and Agip will
supply their fuels to the smaller teams?

So, here is the proposed addition to the FISA F1 rulebook:

    15.7:   All Formula 1 cars shall use FISA-supplied fuel.  This 
	    fuel is to be equivalent to commercially available 99
	    octane (RON) unleaded fuel.

Substitute a slightly higher number if you want, but I would really like to
see something like this enacted (isn't this already done for WS-PC and WRC?).
I don't believe the currently bandied-about unleaded fuel proposal includes
the use of spec fuel.

So, what do you all think?

[ \tom haapanen    "i don't even know what street canada is on" -- al capone ]
[ tomh@wes.on.ca                   "trust the programmer" -- ansi c standard ]
[ waterloo engineering software      "to thine own self be true" -- polonius ]
From: danjones@pyrps5.eng.pyramid.com (Dan Jones)
Newsgroups: rec.autos.sport
Subject: Cool Spins (Was: David Wells-Mansell)
Keywords: Any relation to Nigel?
Date: 17 Apr 92 04:20:13 GMT
Organization: Pyramid Technology Corporation, Mountain View

Tim Dudley writes:

>>     I would have to agree with you that Mansell's spin at Imola in 1989
>>was one of the most fantastic recoveries of all time.
>>
>Villeneuve's recovery of a 320 spin coming onto the pit straight at
>Mosport in the Wolf CanAm car (well, several years ago) is unsurpassed
>by anyone, anytime.  He was correcting the whole time, thrashing the
>gear box, whipping the steering wheel, and knew exactly where he was
>and what was going on, the whole time.  Absolutely awesome to watch.

Well, maybe some awesome displays, but the greatest spin of all time 
goes to Danny Hollywood in '85.  He went on to win the Indy 500.

Dan Jones