HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: mtrost@convex.com (Matthew Trost)
Subject: Re: Yuppie Harleys, NEW BIKE, rantings
Organization: CONVEX Computer Corporation, Richardson, Tx., USA
Date: Wed, 23 Dec 1992 17:11:03 GMT
X-Disclaimer: This message was written by a user at CONVEX Computer
              Corp. The opinions expressed are those of the user and
              not necessarily those of CONVEX.

In <Stafford-221292162359@stafford.winona.msus.edu> Stafford@Vax2.Winona.MSUS.EDU (John Stafford) writes:

>In article <mtrost.725059881@convex.convex.com>, mtrost@convex.com (Matthew
>Trost) wrote:

>> I like shovels a lot. I want a generator bottom, and a shovel top.

>My man!  But are you saying you want the later pan/shovel that Harley
>made or convert a pan _to_ a shovel (or does it make much diff)

As fas as I know, they're the same bottom ends. A shovel runs cooler though,
and (I'm told) have a stronger top end. I just like the looks of the generator
cam cover, vrs. the cone motors.


>OK, REAL QUESTION -- What are the differences (if any) between the
>1000cc and 1200cc Panhead _lower_ ends.  I've a line on a couple
>1000cc wrecks.  
 I think they are different bottom ends. If I'm not mistaken, the cylinder
 base bolt pattern is a little different, and you have to re-drill the oil
 passages. It can be done, with a die grinder and drill, but I'm not sure
 it's worth the proccess. 
 I could be wrong on this, but I'll check my "What fits what" book. I'd get
 the 1000's, if at a good price.

Matthew
From: ggrevera@gradient.cis.upenn.edu (George Grevera)
Newsgroups: rec.motorcycles.harley
Subject: Re: Why belt drive?
Date: 25 Dec 92 18:20:03 GMT
Organization: University of Pennsylvania

In article <LOTTO.92Dec24163536@laura.harvard.edu> lotto@laura.harvard.edu (Jerry Lotto) writes:
>Harley-Davidson has converted to belts because:
>
> [...]
>

Please read my original post again.  I didn't want to know why you like them or
in what ways they might be superior to chains.  I wanted to know why Harley
spent the time and money on developing them.  They could have spent this money
on a number of other things but chose to spend it on this development.  I
wonder why they made this decision.

Let me put it this way.  Say you were the president of HD in the early '80s.
And you had some extra R&D money.  Would the development of belt drive have been
the top item on your list?  If you were an owner of a late '70s Harley without
belt drive, would you drool over belt drive?


George
ggrevera@gradient.cis.upenn.edu
From: davidsen@ariel.crd.GE.COM (william E Davidsen)
Newsgroups: rec.motorcycles.harley
Subject: Re: Why belt drive?
Date: 28 Dec 92 14:43:00 GMT
Reply-To: davidsen@crd.ge.com (bill davidsen)
Organization: GE Corporate R&D Center, Schenectady NY

In article <viking.725359100@vincent2.iastate.edu>, viking@iastate.edu (Dan Sorenson) writes:

| from anybody, which is no money back to HD.  Finally, belts keep spooge
| from being tossed onto those nifty chrome pieces, which is a further
| point in HD's favor from the prospective buyer, as it the lower
| maintainence.  When Yuppies are a significant portion of your new buyers,
| it makes sense to offer what they want.

  Is wanting a bike you can ride limited to yuppies? Funny, I would have
liked to spend less time wrenching and more time riding right from the
first HD I ever owned (56 dresser in 1960).

-- 
bill davidsen, GE Corp. R&D Center; Box 8; Schenectady NY 12345
    Keyboard controller has been disabled, press F1 to continue.
From: gharriso@hpcc01.corp.hp.com (Graeme Harrison)
Date: Tue, 22 Dec 1992 19:08:31 GMT
Subject: Re: Re: DoH numbers
Organization: the HP Corporate notes server
Newsgroups: rec.motorcycles.harley

/ hpcc01:rec.motorcycles.harley / ed@Tekelec.gecko.uucp (Ed Campbell) / 10:44 am  Dec 18, 1992 /

     I'm new around here. Can anybody tell me if there is some
special meaning to the following numbers?

                 13  69
                1 percent
                   666

Ed Campbell

'57 FL
'76 XLCH
My other car is a '54 Harley Servicar.
=============================================================
You new around here - isn't that an oxymoron? :-) 

13 denotes 13th letter of the alphabet which is *M* and that
letter is commonly associated with Marijuana which indicates
that anyone wearing a patch with *13* smokes dope. 

69 denotes a sexual coupling at opposite ends which cannot be
elaborated on as too many netters are under the age of consent. :-) 

1 percent actually denotes a 1-percenter which is an outlaw biker
such as the Hells Angels as 99% of all riders are decent law-abiding
citizens in the AMA. Nowadays 1-percenters are actually .2-percenters.
Also, only about 200,000 bikers are members of the AMA and we have
about 1 million bikers in CA alone! 

666 denotes mark of the beast or Satan. Wearer of such a patch does
not attend church every Sunday because he's nursing a hangover and
has a devil-may-care 'tude about it anyway. ;-)   

Anyone care to explain *FTW*? :-) 

Graeme Harrison
DoD#649
'Monthly membership dues in Hells Angels is roughly 100 smackeroonies.'
 
Newsgroups: rec.motorcycles.harley
From: dehahn@strokr.shr.dec.com (chris dehahn)
Subject: Re: Yuppie Harleys, NEW BIKE, rantings
Reply-To: dehahn@strokr.shr.dec.com
Organization: Digital Equipment Corporation
Date: Mon, 28 Dec 1992 15:47:12 GMT

--

In article <Stafford-221292162359@stafford.winona.msus.edu>,
Stafford@Vax2.Winona.MSUS.EDU
(John Stafford) writes:

|>OK, REAL QUESTION -- What are the differences (if any) between the
|>1000cc and 1200cc Panhead _lower_ ends.  I've a line on a couple
|>1000cc wrecks.  

I am by no means a Panhead expert. My brother is ('48 FL show bike, '50 FL
Police Special, '52 rat). Since the topic is ramblings here are a few.

I believe the cases are similar, as are the wheels. 
If I remember correctly the differences are in the jugs.
Of course, late model external oiler cases are different in that area.
With 61" motors you have to be careful what cam you want to run
as the stock cam had a very short duration. 

Re: shovel heads .vs. pan heads

The shovel has a bigger intake valve, steel valve seats, larger,
relocated intake ports for better flow, steel rocker shafts with
bronze bushings in an aluminum rocker box, and relocated head
bolt holes.

CdH
 
<<<<<<<<<<<<   Ninety eight....don't be late  >>>>>>>>>>>>
Chris deHahn....CdH....Digital Equipment Shrewsbury MA USA
dehahn@shr.dec.com
Newsgroups: rec.motorcycles.harley
From: m_bellor@nntpd2.enet.dec.com ("Sasquatch")
Subject: Re: Who buys these things?
Reply-To: m_bellor@nntpd2.enet.dec.com ("Sasquatch")
Organization: Digital Equipment Corporation, Colorado Springs, CO
Date: Fri, 1 Jan 1993 09:13:29 GMT


In article <1992Dec30.211454.27385@cbnewsm.cb.att.com>, shz@garage.att.com (Keeper of the 'Tude) writes:
>
>
>I wouldn't mind being 18 again and I paid $11,000 for my 1991 FXSTC.
>Does that mean I'm having my mid life crisis at age 32?
>
>- Roid
>


 Hey 'Roid,

 I'm 32 and I also paid $11K for my '91 FXRS, I guess we should be at
 the Crisis Center and Lounge...

 Sasquatch


--
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
My opinions are my own, and may not be that of my employer....

"They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little
temporary safety deserve neither liberty or safety."  B. Franklin
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
        m_bellor@coors.dec.com
Newsgroups: rec.motorcycles.harley
From: fdvlba@zia.aoc.nrao.edu (Fort Davis VLBA site)
Subject: Re: THE doh ROSTER
Organization: National Radio Astronomy Observatory, Socorro NM
Date: Thu, 24 Dec 92 17:11:08 GMT


>Explain to me once again the point of this news group and why it's
>different from r.m
>
>Terry
>
>-- 
> | Terry Cunningham terry@rsi.prc.com | "I don't like the looks of that      |
> | DoD# 541   'Debunkers of Dogma'    |  teenager over there" Grampa Simpson |
> | Highly Individual Flaming Idiot    |                                      |


At 10% the volume of r.m I find this newsgroup much more manageable.  Do you 
own an H-D, Terry?  Didn't think so, otherwise you might have noticed the 
considerable volume of *hardware* discussion here, versus the miscellaneous
stuff properly left in r.m.  I see r.m.h's value most in being a concentration
of info directly applicable to my motorcycle.  I can ignore the noise much 
more easily with the reduced S/N ratio here.  
__

Steve Cowell......scowell@vlbacc.aoc.nrao.edu


Newsgroups: rec.motorcycles.harley
From: markk@tcs.com (Mark Kromer)
Subject: Re: Why belt drive?
Originator: markk@sparcplug
Reply-To: markk@tcs.com (Mark Kromer)
Organization: Replace me with your organization
Date: Sun, 27 Dec 1992 01:22:56 GMT

In article <103202@netnews.upenn.edu>, ggrevera@gradient (George Grevera) writes:
>In article <LOTTO.92Dec24163536@laura.harvard.edu> lotto@laura.harvard.edu (Jerry Lotto) writes:
>>Harley-Davidson has converted to belts because:
>>
>> [...]
>>
>
>Please read my original post again.  I didn't want to know why you like them or
>in what ways they might be superior to chains.  I wanted to know why Harley
>spent the time and money on developing them.  They could have spent this money
>on a number of other things but chose to spend it on this development.  I
>wonder why they made this decision.
>
>Let me put it this way.  Say you were the president of HD in the early '80s.
>And you had some extra R&D money. Would the development of belt drive have been
>the top item on your list?  If you were an owner of a late '70s Harley without
>belt drive, would you drool over belt drive?

To say that Harley is not significently developing their bikes is
wrong.  The Dyna chassis and the large scale renovation of the
Sportster engine that accompanied the recent change to 5 speeds are
proof.  Belt drive is another.  

What you want to know is why Harley doesn't develop more powerful
engines.  Harley, like any other company which sells to the general
public, weighs the development costs against what they expect the
value of the changes to be to the market segment they target.
Apparently, they are not targeting the sportbike market.  While their
bikes may not satisfy the needs of all motorcyclists, Harleys
trouncing of all the other makers in the cruiser bike market suggest
that they know that market very well (they DEFINE it).  More power to
them (pun intended ;-).

Why doesn't Harley build more powerful bikes?  What percentage of
Harleys sold wind up being modified to increase power output?  What
are the risks to Harley?  Would a modified engine pass increasingly
stringent noise and smog laws?  What about Harley's hard won
reputation for reliability?  Just bolting on some aftermarket-like
parts could generate excessive risks for Harley down the line.

I suspect that Harley concluded that the best way to produce a more
powerful engine that will meet reliability criteria and current and
future government regulations is from the ground up.  They may be
doing that now, they may not, but given their success I won't attempt
to second guess their analysis of their market.

--
- )V(ark)<  FZR400 Pilot / ZX900 Payload / RD400 Mechanic  DoD #400
From: ggrevera@gradient.cis.upenn.edu (George Grevera)
Newsgroups: rec.motorcycles.harley
Subject: Re: lane-splitting etiquette (& **** Harley questions ****)
Date: 22 Dec 92 15:54:04 GMT
Organization: University of Pennsylvania

In article <1992Dec21.230049.7594@megatek.com> tomw@megatek.com writes:
>
>Once when lane splitting on the 405 freeway near LAX on a Friday afternoon, I 
>found that the level of concentration required was so high I very briefly 
>pondered that 20 minutes of successful lane splitting would make a tough
>replacement for the Touring Test of machine intelligence. The image
>recognition, pattern matching, and decision processing demands are very high.
>
>Tom Wright
>'89 Heritage Special Classic

Actually, I don't believe the processing demands are all that high (although
it's still not a trivial problem and mistakes could cost lives).  The
problem domain is quite limited i.e. the name of the game is to move in
the direction of the flow of traffic and not hit anything.  You're really
not concerned with recognizing Volvo's vs. Ford's.  You just want to go
with the flow and avoid hitting anything.  So a range image camera would
be perfect for the avoidance task.  And given another regular camera, try
to find a path between the cars in the direction of the flow.

Of course the initial merge and the final exit are a lot more difficult.
And building a machine to balance and control a motorcycle would be quite
difficult but if you would allow training wheels . . .

Oh.  I'm sorry.  I forgot that this isn't comp.ai.vision.  Please delete
the above and insert one the following questions:

1) Why did Harley deem it important to develop belt drive?  (I know chains
are dirty.)  It seems that many clamor for performance (carbs, cams, exhausts)
but few clamor for belt drive.  Let me put it this way.  From what I gather,
to add belt drive to a Sporty costs about $400-$500.  And an S&S E costs about
$300 and say you get a cam for $200.  Would you rather belt drive or a carb
and a cam for your money?

2) Why do 4 cylinder foreign bikes have 4 carbs but 2 cylinder Harley's have
one carb (although the XR1000 might have had 2)?

3) Why did Harley wait until '91 to give Sporty's a 5-speed tranny?

4) Why isn't a rubber mounted engine at least an option for a Sporty?  Does
any third party manufacture a rubber mount system for a Sporty?

5) Why doesn't Harley manufacture the engine in the XR750 (Rotax of Austria
does I believe)?

6) Why doesn't Harley sell a street version of the XR750?

7) Why is 2-tone paint only an option for the Sporty 1200 (I know about the
custom, pay-through-the-nose program)?

8) Does Harley make more money on bikes or on t-shirts (and other accessories)?


Inquiring minds want to know!


George
ggrevera@gradient.cis.upenn.edu

Newsgroups: rec.motorcycles.harley
From: neal@cmptrc.lonestar.org (Neal Howard)
Subject: Re: exhaust swap
Date: Tue, 22 Dec 1992 01:41:34 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: CompuTrac Inc., Richardson TX

In article <72497167418513@oxygen.aps1.anl.gov> gbanks@oxygen.aps1.anl.gov (Gregory Banks) writes:
>Can the exhaust be swapped on a new Harley before the engine has been
>broken in ? I want to put the 2 into 1 pipes on the bike so I can use
>bigger
>bags. One dealer has said not to change the exhaust until the bike has 
>its first 500 miles, another dealer has said it does not matter, swap
>it when the bike comes in ! Any input on this ?

If you at least leave the stock pipes on for the first 500, then if anything
(God forbid) does go wrong, they cannot say "sorry, the warantee's voided
cuz you did unauthorized modifications". Patience, the first 500 will pass by
quicker than you'd imagine. I seriously doubt that breaking in the engine on
aftermarket pipes would hurt anything though, and it sure would sound better
(IMHO) but as expensive as new Harleys are, I'd still opt for break-in in
bone-stock condition and then go crazy with the add on goodies.

-- 
=============================================================================
Neal Howard   '91 XLH-1200      DoD #686      CompuTrac, Inc (Richardson, TX)
	      doh #0000001200
         "Let us learn to dream, gentlemen, and then perhaps
          we shall learn the truth." -- August Kekule' (1890)
=============================================================================
From: hartzler@cbmvax.commodore.com (Jerry Hartzler - CATS)
Newsgroups: rec.motorcycles.harley
Subject: Re: Who buys these things?
Date: 28 Dec 92 23:38:00 GMT
Reply-To: hartzler@cbmvax.commodore.com (Jerry Hartzler - CATS)
Organization: Commodore, West Chester, PA

In article <1992Dec23.234451.3973@icomsim.com> mmanning@icomsim.com (Michael Mannning) writes:
 
>There are these two FatBoys on the floor (bikes, not salesmen), both `92s, 
>both black. I check the odometers the first one has about 1700, I nearly 
>puked. I go over to the second one and it reads, brace yourself, 562 miles. 
>Even more scary is the prices, both of them were for sale for more than I 
>paid for mine new. Something like $12,700.00 and I'm not sure that includes 
>license, title, tax or not. These had no, absolutely no, add on bits. I've 
>heard of things like this but never actually seen it myself. Not that you'd 
>ever meet one of the people who bought these things, I mean what are the 
>odds of actually catching them riding one.

I saw two silver 92' Dyna Customs in the Lanchaster shop the other day.
Same milage as your FatBoys.  For less than $500 you could have bought
a brand new Dyna Low Rider!  Get this... one was brought in for a trade-in
on a new Harley and the other the dealer got from a local Corvette
dealer who got it on a trade-in!

- Jerry
Newsgroups: rec.motorcycles.harley
From: neal@cmptrc.lonestar.org (Neal Howard)
Subject: Harleys in others' ads (was Re: Cepacol radio ad)
Date: Wed, 30 Dec 1992 17:27:13 GMT
Organization: CompuTrac Inc., Richardson TX

Anyone see the '58 Duo-Glide panhead featured in the AST ad on the back
cover on a PCWEEK magazine?? I think the last one was the Nov. 23rd issue.
I wonder how Harley feels about AST's usage of this photo in their ad?
-- 
=============================================================================
Neal Howard   '91 XLH-1200      DoD #686      CompuTrac, Inc (Richardson, TX)
	      doh #0000001200
         "Let us learn to dream, gentlemen, and then perhaps
          we shall learn the truth." -- August Kekule' (1890)
=============================================================================
From: Stafford@Vax2.Winona.MSUS.EDU (John Stafford)
Newsgroups: rec.motorcycles.harley
Subject: Re: Yuppie Harleys, NEW BIKE, rantings
Date: 21 Dec 92 22:16:34 GMT
 <mtrost.724779547@convex.convex.com> <1992Dec21.163200.2981@rtsg.mot.com>
Followup-To: rec.motorcycles.harley
Organization: MSUS

In article <1992Dec21.163200.2981@rtsg.mot.com>, declrckd@rtsg.mot.com (Dan
J. Declerck) wrote:

[...]
 
> When the economy picks up steam, these trends will drop, like a rock.
> I estimate the post-industrial revivalism to take it's place.
> (Generation X, the post baby-boomers will take it's place).
> A good future trend, is the values presented on MTV.
>                                                 ---
> Can anyone speculate as the taste in motorcycling, and
> possibly it's popularity??
> 

MTV?  Damn, and I thought there was a generation gap between
us.  Not.  There are TWO!
--
Before they became more fashionable, I'd be challenged by the
college career crowd (read: faculty, aspiring admins) to justify
my bike.  I could avoid the ugly truth (it's fun, lots more fun
than you deserve) by giving mileage.  "I always get 50mpg or
better from the Harley and 35+ on a BMW."

Now my damned cage does almost that well so I have to revert to
(sigh) honesty and tell 'em "Cause it's fun!  Risky!  Freedom!"
(and besides, I'm union now so go fugyersef.)
From: edp@sneaks.kodak.com (Ed Pendzik -- Sun Consulting)
Newsgroups: rec.motorcycles.harley
Subject: Re: El pan lower ends
Date: 23 Dec 92 17:50:45 GMT
Followup-To: rec.motorcycles.harley
In-reply-to: Stafford@Vax2.Winona.MSUS.EDU's message of 22 Dec 92 22:30:42 GMT

>OK, REAL QUESTION -- What are the differences (if any) between the
>1000cc and 1200cc Panhead _lower_ ends.  I've a line on a couple
>1000cc wrecks.

the only difference I know of is the oil scraper, because el wheels
are smaller in diameter. this is "what fits what" sez. have you seen the 
book?

	Ed Pendzik

PS I have a line on someone with a perfect 55-57 pan straight leg frame
for $1200. I'm not going for it.
From: car377@druhi.ATT.COM (RogersC)
Newsgroups: rec.motorcycles.harley
Subject: Re: Why belt drive?
Summary: quiet
Date: 25 Dec 92 04:12:16 GMT


 In article <103147@netnews.upenn.edu> ggrevera@gradient.cis.upenn.edu (George Grevera) writes:
[...]
>
>Someone said that belt drive allowed Harley to pass noise regulations.  If this
>is true, what do the Japanese do to their bikes that allows them to NOT have to
>develop their own belt drive?

They make quieter bikes.  

Chuck Rogers
car377@druhi.att.com
From: cscc1f@menudo.uh.edu (Gregory W Hayes)
Newsgroups: rec.motorcycles.harley
Subject: Need help w/ a Sporty Mutant...
Date: 21 Dec 1992 18:05:15 -0600
Organization: University of Houston
NNTP-Posting-Host: menudo.uh.edu
Summary: may purchase a basket case and need some info...

I may be buying a '74 Sporty with a '58 900 Sporty motor.  My idea is to
build it into my own version of an XLCR/XR750 dirt-track streeter (high
pipes, stripped to bare essentials, better suspension, rear-sets, etc.). 

My one worry is the motor.  It has the original cast iron barrels and
heads.  Can these be overbored to 1200cc or is there a relatively easy
swap available to put on later model heads/barrels?  I'm looking for HP
to be somewhere in the 80 hp range.  Will the bottom end be strong
enough?  I don't know how much the Sporty's bottom end has been
redesigned in the past 34 years.  Horsepower is nice, but reliability
comes first. (I do plan on balancing and blue-printing, so it would be a
full rebuild, not just a new top end.)

I've got other questions like adding a black box, etc, but those can
wait until I know if this bike would be suitable for building into a
little hotrod.

Thanks,

Greg Hayes
--
Gregory W. Hayes

GWH@UH.EDU	greg@simpsons.cc.uh.edu
DISCLAIMER: I don't get paid enough to have an opinion...
University of Houston
From: dehahn@strokr.shr.dec.com (chris dehahn)
Newsgroups: rec.motorcycles.harley
Subject: Re: Yuppie Harleys, NEW BIKE, rantings
Date: 21 Dec 92 18:32:59 GMT
Reply-To: dehahn@strokr.shr.dec.com
Organization: Digital Equipment Corporation

--

I guess you can put me down as guilty as charged. I'm one of
the few who've done a LOT of work on HD's and do not believe
the Evo hype about it being better engineered than its pre-
decessors. In some ways it's a better design, in other ways, 
it is not. If all you ever see of an HD motor is the outside you
won't see the compromises. For an off the rack stock bike it's
great. If leaving it completely stock is the goal then by all means
buy an Evo.

Much of the Evo's reliability is from improved, modernized
manufacturing capability, stricter quality control and complete
change in the working environment and shop floor managment.
That's not engineering.

How many r.m.h participants have rebuilt a Harley motor? Bolting
on chrome doesn't count.

CdH

<<<<<<<<<<<<   Ninety eight....don't be late  >>>>>>>>>>>>
Chris deHahn....CdH....Digital Equipment Shrewsbury MA USA
dehahn@shr.dec.com
From: crsg9887@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (Chad R. Sandstrom)
Subject: Re: Harley dealers: complaints
Organization: University of Illinois at Urbana
Date: Wed, 30 Dec 1992 21:04:24 GMT

mtrost@convex.com (Matthew Trost) writes:

>								12/30/92

>  I am compiling  a list of complaints about customer service at Harley
>  dealerships. In the Dallas area you have your choice between 3 Harley
>  dealers. I've had it with the treatment and service, so I want to write
>  the company personally, and include any bad experiences you, your spouse,
>  S.O., or personal friends have had with Harley Authorized dealers you
>  have done business with.
>  Please in include factual information, as accurately as possible, but
>  don't limit yourself. Say what you feel. I don't think names are important,
>  but include them if you wish.
>  Remember, this is *your* complaint, so don't hold back. Be sure it's factual,
>  and not; "my friend's cousin's wife's sister" type thing.

>  Send to:	mtrost@eugene.convex.com
>  or just post to the net

ok, i'll do that


>  Matthew

Here's one better: Would you add to your compilation GOOD
experiences as well.  This  would  establish standard to which
BAD dealers could be expected to live up to ELSE go elsewhere.

Even more interesting would be an upgrade to the H.O.G. national 
map that had little stickers next to the dealers, e.g.:
		  good service, good coffee
		  ok service, hot receptionist
		  bad service, smelly manager
		  etc...etc...

		  chad


Newsgroups: rec.motorcycles.harley