From: bense@oasys.dt.navy.mil (Ron Bense)
Newsgroups: talk.abortion
Subject: Re: The christian perspective...?
Date: 14 Sep 92 13:38:49 GMT
Reply-To: bense@oasys.dt.navy.mil (Ronald Bense)
Distribution: usa
Organization: Carderock Division, NSWC, Bethesda, MD

In talk.abortion, mcmillan@vf.jsc.nasa.gov writes:
>In article <24887@oasys.dt.navy.mil>, bense@oasys.dt.navy.mil (Ron Bense) write

>I was an accident, too.  The result of a very cold winter and of a great way
>to keep warm, so my Mom says.  Your Mom and Dad were probably glad you were
>not aborted.  I imagine they loved you some as you grew up.  And I imagine you
>would have been mighty unhappy *while* you were being aborted.

I wouldn't have been anything while I was being aborted. I wouldn't
have had the mental capabilities of being happy or sad. THose are higher
emotions, I think. I might have been warm or cold, uncomfortable, or hungry
(and probably that order too, as you get older and develop more).

>Although I'm not an expert in this, as I'm sure you're not also, I believe

I'm not. That's obvious, otherwise I would probably stick an MD somewhere,
probably in my .sig. :)

>you're wrong about the unborn not feeling pain.  If it can feel then it can
>feel pain, I presume.  Ever touch a bump on your pregnant wife's stomach and
>then have it move in response to your touch?  I have--the child felt me.  I've

Don't have a wife, but I remember my mother when she had my little sister.
I do remember that it took a long time after she told me I was going
to have another brother/sister (they didn't know back then:) before
there was any movement at all.

>talked in detail with my sister-in-law about the unborn.  She's an expert-an
>OBGyn, has worked on hundreds (or more) of pregnant women, delivered hundreds
>(or more) babies.  She says they can feel pain.  That's her business.  I 
>believe her. Being able to formulate an opinion is not the criteria
>for making it wrong to have your head ripped off.

I'd believe her too. But notice that she seems to be talking about babies,
or very late term fetuses, which are quite advanced, and usually not
up for the abortion descision. Abortion generally takes place long before
the nervous system has started to develop to the point that it even
halfway resembles our nervous system, and that until that time, the
most that can be said for it is that it has the brain of a squid, and
that might be giving it more credit than it's due.

>> 1) Do you realize that the fetus draws sustenance, minerals, water, etc
>> from a woman and defecates into the woman, right?

>Not sure about defecation...I thought the baby's waste products were passed

Poor choice of words, but as I've indicated elsewhere, even this happens
sometimes.

>through the umbilical cord and taken care of by the mother's waste system.
>But even if that's wrong, that's one of the many wonderful things about a
>woman's body--they were designed to accomodate and nuture a growing baby.
>They automatically intake more nutrients to account for it.

They do? Or is this some conscious decision of the mother-to-be, and
she must do this, or things like osteoporosis begins to occur?

>If these women are so opposed to ever having children, then they should
>consider being made sterile.  This way they would never have to kill their
>child by abortion.

They might change their mind later, at the moment a child is not a responsible
decision for them. See other post about opinion being a matter of timing,
and that thoughts and wishes change.

>If you were walking around and saw someone beating somebody a lot more
>helpless than they were, wouldn't you feel it was your duty to help (or
>would you rather not get involved)?

Depends on whether they were fighting it or not. On a street, yes,m
I would intervene, if I walked into a bedroom, no probably not. Some
people are into that type of behavior, you know.

>If you were walking on a sidewalk and saw someone drowning in a backyard pool,
>but there was a "No Tresspassing" sign on the grass, wouldn't you break that
>law to go render aid?

That wouldn't be a law, except should the owner wish to enforce it.
In this case, I don't believe it would matter, as even if they wished
to enforce it, no court in their right mind would even consider it (although
some of the recent decisions appear to have a court in their left mind:)
So in this case, that wouldn't even apply, not that I normally pay attention
to such signs, as I generally don't go romping accross other's property,
it's called respecting other people's property.

Ron

Potassium Benzoate included as a preserver.
Newsgroups: talk.abortion