From: scific@cbnewse.cb.att.com (randy.c.jones)
Subject: turntable information
Organization: AT&T
Distribution: usa
Date: Wed, 30 Sep 1992 14:12:39 GMT

Only one person responded with wanting the same information I was
looking for, but I thought there might be other wallflowers out
there, so here is what I obtained.

Thanks to following people that responded to my turntable query:

1) kester@mat.mte.ncsu.edu (Dan Kester)
2) "Rich Carlson (814) 863-1736" <CVY@PSUVM.PSU.EDU>
3) ssr@reddog.cypress.com (Bapcha/FPGA)
4) Tim Bray <tbray@watsol.uwaterloo.ca>
5) exulox@exu.ericsson.se (Lasse Ohlsson)

And while I haven'd bought the turntable yet, I now have ideas
as to what to look for, what to avoid, and which  manufacturers to
look at.

Once again, thanks.

Randy Jones
scific@ihlpy.att.com

**************************************************************************

From att!mat.mte.ncsu.edu!kester Thu Sep 24 17:24:49 0400 1992
From: kester@mat.mte.ncsu.edu (Dan Kester)

>My turntable has had an untimely death and I want to replace it
>before production of turntables is halted.

Randy-

Factors affecting your choice of turntables:

	1) How is the rest of your system?  If your system is a $1000
	   system you don't want a $3000 turntable.  If you have a
	   $5000 system, you don't want a $200 table.
	
	2) How much will you listen to records? Will it be your primary
	   source, or only occasional?
	
	3) How much do you want to play with and adjust yourself
	   (versus a work-right-out-of-the-box table)?
	
	4) Money.  There are turntables for under $200, and for $10,000.
	
Surprisingly, turntables have greatly improved in recent years
(10 years).  They are becoming something of a specialty item, as is most
high end audio, but it seems unlikely that production will be halted in
the near future.

I guess by your post that you are not a fanatic audiophile, or you would
already have strong ideas about what you want.  Therefore, you don't
need a super turntable.

In terms of features: the better the table, the less features.  Things
like auto-return will tend to increase the noise, and decrease the
sound quality.  Most high quality tables are completely manual.

Consumer reports is only interested in features, they are not interested
in sound quality.

Some suggestions: Linn Basik, Rega Planar, Revolver Rebel, Thorens, Dual
CS-5000.  Avoid Technics, Pioneer, Sony, and other Japanese mass-market
companies.  The tables mentioned above are $4-700, generally without
cartridge.

> I used to have a Dual 1229 that went bad.  Has Dual gotten better or
> remained status quo?
>

It is at the low end of those I mentioned, but definitely better than the
Japanese tables.  One reason for very simple turntables, is that there is
less to go wrong, just a high quality motor and power supply.

>Is belt drive or direct drive better?  Does the strobe actually assist?
>What kind of cartridge is best?

Almost all good turntables these days are belt drive.  Most don't have
strobes, the motor should be good enough to keep the corect speed.  As to
cartridges, that's a whole another area.  This year the Sumiko Blue Point,
at $100, is hot: good quality at a relatively good price.  For cheaper,
Grados are good, other Sumikos.

That's what you should spend to get a good quality table that will last.
Some companies make only tables (Revolver).  They may not be around
very long.  Others make all kinds of things (Linn).  They may be around
longer.

One thing I found was that the top-end dealers ended up being where
I prefered to shop.  They knew what a system could sound like
(money-no-object) and were best at suggesting those reasonably priced
components which came closest to that top-end sound. They also often were
really into audio, and as interested in me getting something appropriate
as in making a sale.  Mid-fi dealers only wanted to sell. So I suggest
finding a high-end store.  A way to do this is to find out the high-end
brands (Krell, Vandersteen, Conrad-Johnson, Threshold, Counterpoint,
Linn, look in Audio magazine for lots of others) and look in the yellow
pages for who carries those.

Again, look for those tables I mentioned before.  In descending price
(estimates based on memory): Rega Planar $700, Linn Basik $600, Revolver
Rebel $450, Thorens, Dual, also Denon maybe, all less (maybe $400).  I
ended up getting (after considering the first three above) a Roksan
Radius.   It lists for $1300, I got a dealer's demo for $800.  More
than I had planned to spend, but a good deal.

Dan Kester
kester@mte.ncsu.edu
Dan Kester
North Carolina State University
919-515-2867
kester@mte.ncsu.edu

-------------------------------------------

From cbnewse!att!PSUVM.PSU.EDU!CVY Fri Sep 25 08:07:37 1992
From: "Rich Carlson (814) 863-1736" <CVY@PSUVM.PSU.EDU>

I recently (well, about a year ago) bought a Rotel RP-855 for just under
$300, intending it to be my final turntable purchase.  It is very basic,
totally manual (thus not much to break in the future!), and comes with
a pretty decent Audio-Technica cartridge.  I've been very happy with it,
and find myself listening to vinyl more than I expected to.  If it is in
your price range, I recommend checking it out.  -- Rich

----------------------------------------------

From cbnewse!att!cypress.cypress.com!uucp!reddog.cypress.com!ssr Fri Sep 25 17:13:44 1992
From: ssr@reddog.cypress.com (Bapcha/FPGA)

Try the Technics SL1200 series II or something.  Available from
J&R radio. It is a heavy duty DJ CD player.  The sound quality is
not like a Linn,  but it sure stands up to a lot of abuse....

Good luck...

-bapcha-


-- 
Bapcha - A very bad boy from Cypress Semiconductor
3901 N.  First Strasse
San Jose,  CA 95134, 408-943-2719

--------------------------------------------------------

From cbnewse!att!watsol.uwaterloo.ca!tbray Sun Sep 27 10:28:55 1992
From: Tim Bray <tbray@watsol.uwaterloo.ca>

Last year, I bought a turntable, and was sufficiently wowed by it to
post a gushing article to this newsgroup, which I reproduce below.  A year
later, I'm still in love.  Furthermore, *after* having bought it, I stumbled
across a couple of very positive reviews in snooty audio mags.  This thing,
with a cartridge, will cost you the best part of $500.  On the other hand,
I think that it, paradoxically, makes good sense to spend serious $$ on a
turntable right now, since, (a) you'll probably never buy another, and
(b) your record collection is probably largely irreplaceable now, so you
want to take good care of them.  A point that I touch on in my posting of
last year, but have grown to appreciate still more, is that having a good
turntable gives you the possibility of from time to time killing an hour
or so in a used record store, which seem to have an endless inventory of
really good music at ridiculously low prices.

Oh, yes, features:  The turntable discussed below has none, aside from
a cueing arm to lift the needle up and down, and an on-off switch.

Cheers, Tim Bray, Open Text Corporation


		(Tim's previous posting)
		

In 1985 or so, I got disgusted with the sound of my system, the front
end of which consisted of an ancient Dual 505 with a cartridge I can't
even remember the name of.  Worse, the sound of my precious record
collection was audibly degrading.  So I stopped listening to it.
Just about then I bought a first generation CD player and loved it so
much (hence standing revealed as a specimen of low-fi untermensch)
that I rapidly built a big collection and started getting into
audiophilia.

But I had 1,000 LP's in the basement that I never listened to.  Just this
summer, decided this was stupid.  So I went out to local high-end store
and bought myself a Rega Planar 3 with a Roksan Corus cartridge.  They
*really* tried to sell me a Linn Axis for another $450, but I couldn't
convince myself the difference was worth it; in fact, while audibly
different, I couldn't convince myself the Linn was *better*.  I don't
know enough about vinyl technology to judge whether these brands are
well-regarded.

It all sounds very good.  The improvement in enjoyment, as measured in
International Pleasure Units (IPU's) went from 0.000 with the LP's in the
basement to a very significant positive value.  Clearly, the increase in
enjoyment is literally infinite.

I guess this means I can start throwing high-noise-content verbiage
around on the subject of analogue-vs.-digital.  Hmmm... 20 min. is too
short for a chunk of music.  Surface noise is very irritating.  The
Rega is physically very beautiful, and playing records now feels sensuous
in an archaic way.  I want to play LP's with the volume higher; they
*sound* quieter even when driving the amp to the same output levels.
Surface noise is REALLY VERY irritating.  A *really* nice thing about
LP's is all the seedy back-street record stores with cheap good-condition
used LP's containing all sorts of obscure hard-to-find stuff.

My provisional opinion (but the jury's out) is that the influence of the
producers and engineers on the sound of the music is substantially greater
than whether it is stored as vinyl squiggles or binary digits.

Cheers, Tim Bray, Open Text Corporation

-------------------------------------------------------------

From att!exu.ericsson.se!exulox Mon Sep 28 18:36:38 CDT 1992
From: exulox@exu.ericsson.se (Lasse Ohlsson)


 I recently bought a Linn Sondek turntable and am very happy with it.
 It may be somewhat expensive (2000 bucks) but I am sure that it will
 last me 30 years or so.  Linn is probably one of the few turntable
 companies that are still increasing their turntable sales and the 
 Sondek (or LP12) is their top-of-the line deck.

 I have compared several decks, one of the better was a Roksan Radius
 with the Tabriz tonearm and Sumiko Blue point cartridge, (Unfortunately
 I didn't have the Roksan top-of-the-line to compare with) but it would
 not quite match the Linn Axis (model cheaper than LP12 - same price
 range as the Radius) with Akito tone arm and K5 cartridge.
 At the same time I listened to the LP12 with the same config. and it
 sounded a lot better. I had to have it!

 An advantage with the LP12 is that it comes in so many configurations.
 I chose one of the cheaper ones and can upgrade along the road as I
 earn more money ;-)

 I've got a LP12 with a used Valhalla power supply (people trade in their
 Valhallas for the new Lingo power supply - I got a great deal!) Akito
 arm (their cheapest one) and K9 cartridge (second to cheapest).
 This setup beats all turntables I have heard so far in this price range
 and I can upgrade anytime I want if I want to.
 A table I can "grow" with!

 I saw a review by Consumer Reports a couple of years ago of the Linn
 Basik.  They liked it a lot!  Lotsa bang for the buck.  I bet you can
 find it if you go to the library and use their computer to search.

 If you wanna go American, check out VPI or SOTA. They make some good
 stuff! Or check out a Rega (brittish). Cheap and sturdy. Or try a 
 Well Tempered... Enuf! :)

Go check it out!
Lasse