From: othman@ntrc25.ntrc.ntu.ac.sg (othman (EEE/Div 4))
Subject: Re: Malaysia's racial policies
Organization: Nanyang Technological University - Singapore
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1 PL6]
Date: Sat, 21 Nov 1992 07:19:23 GMT

TSE THAM (projs8@ccu1.aukuni.ac.nz) wrote:
: only be accorded to the Orang Asli, as they've been in Malaysia since about
: 2000BC (that's according to my Form 1 history books). The modern Malays only
: arrived about 3000 years later (I'm not sure about this), so they should not
They have intermarried with the coastal Orang Asli. You can read about the
Tenggang story.

: (strictly) be classified as bumiputera. What about the ancient Indian traders
: who traded with the Sungai Lembing kingdom in the 7th century and stayed?
: The orang asli, polynesians, Malays and Indonesians all originated from a
: region in the South of present day China (and probably northern India) where

Well you're indeed well informed.
: most Chinese in Malaysia originate from (again sourced from the form 1 history
: book and a recent issue of Scientific American). Therefore, since most of the
: major races in present day Malaysia originated from the same geographic region
: and are now again living together, why shouldn't everyone be accorded the title
: of bumiputera? That's an interesting thought, isn't it?)

ALL humans  come from the same lineage. One the the foremost principle of
justice is those WHO COME FIRST, be given first priority.
	You're trying to remove this priority because of personal interests 
and yet surprisingly are so against the Philippino and Indonesian immigrants,
who contribute a lot to the Malaysian economy. The discrimination against 
these groups is so severe to be on the border of slavery. Imagine their 
children are not even given basic education. They do not even get birth
certificates. I do not support that they be given automatic citizenship, but
they should not be mistreated so badly. Humans are humans. If they are so
poor and uneducated, there will be more crime.
	It is the Chinese who are so much against these immigrants and yet
it is the Chinese towkeys who brought them in. What a dilemma?
	However the government is beginning to realise the importance of
controlling them and yet gain the most economical benefit, but following
Singapore style, again thanks to Anuar Ibrahim. However I'm not satisfied
with the government commitment. The levy should be 10 times higher, so that
the minimum salary for locals should be about $300/month.

:  
: >	Even in established government bodies, the minimum wage is $300.00,
: >which admittedly is below the poverty line in Malaysia.
: >	The chinese like these situations because they do not have to 
: >sponsor expensive governments but they have to suffer in other ways.
: 
: What do you mean by "not having to sponsor expensive governments"? The MARA
: scholarships are funded by the government, are they not? Therefore, non bumis

MARA is also a company. They make a lot of money which is used to sponsor
students. MARA is not a fully government body.

: would suffer twice (once for the tax which funds the scholarships and another
: for the ineligibility of their offspring to obtain tax funded scholarships).

If the government servants were rich, then a lot of them will be able to 
afford to send their students overseas. However their salary must be high.
As high as $6000/month, at present cost of living.
	Scholarship has a lot of strings which inhibit the potential of the
recipients. For example I'm still bonded by govermnment, I've not finished
my 10year bond yet.
	Getting loans is messy. You have to beg to a lot of people and subject
to political pressure.
: >So you are against the "affirmative action" in USA to help the blacks,
: >or any special assistance to develop the Black schools or even raise their
: >standard of living to make them competitive.
: 
: You're putting words in to my mouth, Othman. I'm not against affirmative action
: as long as it's available to all who need it, regardless of RACE. It's not
: just the African-Americans who are less priveledged, there are those of other
: races who need help, even some of the European-Americans.

I thought Affirmative action is only for blacks? According to an article in
FORTUNE. It is not for any caucasian or even hispanics.

: 
: >	After all, the richer gets richer. It would be a pity if even the
: >richer can also get assistance instead of the poorer ones, or groups of
: >poorer ones. Sometimes we have to develop a community/race so that they
: >can later help their family members. We must be realistic that family ties
: >are important elements in business, or even in providing a proper environemnt
: >for development.
: 
: That would seem to be what's happening to the scholarships. The better off
: Malays (eg offspring of high government and state officials) seem to be able

high govenment and state officials are not rich, not rich enough to sponsor
their children overseas. Their salary is only about $3000/month, net.

: to easily walk off with the scholarships. Since their parents do not need to
: support them through University, aren't they, who are already rich, getting
: richer?
: 
: >: Africa would do well to heed its own words in this respect. Would not it be 
: >: better, as Othman suggests, to base it on need and merit? In New Zealand, I 
: >: know of a person (non-bumi Malaysian) who has obtained 5 scholarships, 1 
: >: fellowship and 6 prizes in the last 4 years. These were evidently not given on
: >: the basis of a racial bias and therefore there is no feelings of unfairness.
: 
: >If he get get all these scholarships, why bother to get one from Malaysian
: >government? In Malaysia, it is not allowed to get more than one sholarships.
: 
: The point I'm trying to make here is that in New Zealand, the award of 
: scholarships is done fairly on the basis of merit and need and not on an ad hoc
: manner depending on the pigmentation of your epidermis. The scholarships were

It is funny that you miss the affirmative action in USA. Aren't you aware that
there is similar provision for the natives or New Zealand? I believe they
get special privileges but may be restricted to high school, but they are all
half hearted, and not designed to let them to advance to the level of the
whites.

: all less than NZ$1500 and awarded by different firms, unlike the comprenhensive

These scholarships carry more prestige and very useful for his cv.

: scholarships which the Malaysian Government awards that cover almost everything.
: 

You are bonded for 10 years and the amount is designed to let you live as a
poor man in NZ.

: The award of scholarships by the Malaysian Govt still runs contrary to their
: belief in equality for the Africans when opposing apartheid in South Africa. 
: Therefore there's two sets of values, one for foreign affairs as a 'leader' of
: the non-aligned movement and another set for domestic policy.
	CAn you explain why some non-bumi also got scholarships locally and
overseas? You do not seem to answer this? CAn you explain why the non-bumis
are richer than the bumis in Malaysia? Your argument will not make sense to
anyone who has ever gone to Malaysia. You can fool your colleagues who have
never been to Malaysia.

: 
: >We need the money for other people.
: 
: Who do you need the money for? Other bumis? BTW, how many of you bumi & non-bumi
: netters out there are on Government scholarships? It will be good to hear it
: from their perspective.

There are a few but you discard all of them. You're not really searching for
the truth.

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