HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: freshair@iastate.edu (James W Gregory)
Subject: Do humans HAVE to eat protein?
Organization: Iowa State University, Ames IA
Date: Tue, 14 Apr 1992 13:39:03 GMT

I came across the following paragraph in a highly respected
microbiology textbook, _The_Biology_0f_Microorganisms (5th ed.), by Thomas D.
Brock and Michael T. Madigan (Englewood Cliffs, NJ:  Prentice Hall,
Inc., 1988), p. 398:

"One rather dramatic instance of a beneficial role of a component of
the intestinal flora has been the discovery of the significant numbers
of nitrogen-fixing bacteria of the species _Klebsiella_pneumoniae_ in
the intestines of New Guineans subsisting on a diet in which 80 to 90
percent of their calories are derived from sweet potatoes, a food
virtually devoid of protein nitrogen.  This bacterium fixes nitrogen
anaerobically and is a constant member of the intestinal flora of
these people.  Apparently sufficient nitrogen is fixed and passes
through the intestinal wall into the bloodstream so that these
individuals can subsist on a diet that would be unsuitable otherwise."

Does anyone have any more information on this?  If this is _true_, it
would throw a great deal of what is commonly accepted about nutrition
out the window.  

IMHO, I think intestinal bacteria play a MUCH more important role in
human nutrition (e.g. vitamin synthesis) than most people realize, and
is an area that needs _a lot_ more attention.

-Jim (freshair@iastate.edu)
-- 
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Jim Gregory      freshair@iastate.edu    |  "10,000 lemmings can't be wrong"
Dept. of Plant Pathology, ISU (by day)   |          - anonymous
Fresh Aire Delivery Services (by night/weekends)
From: 491miley@gw.wmich.edu (Tim Miley)
Newsgroups: rec.food.veg
Subject: Re: Vegetarianism and war
Date: 10 Apr 92 19:18:38 GMT
Article-I.D.: gw.1992Apr10.141839.3778
Organization: Western Michigan University

In article <1992Apr7.220848.23480@ssd.kodak.com>, young@sasquatch.serum.kodak.com (Rich Young (x37176)) writes:
> 
> I have no desire to get into another interminable discussion of why the 
> morality of some is thought by the holders of that morality to be superior
> to that of others, but a book review taken from t.p.a may be illuminating
> regarding extremism in this area.  Also, I do understand that this is not
> the Singer quoted in Mr. Miley's post.
> 
> -Rich (young@serum.kodak.com)
> 
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> These are MY opinions, don't blame them on my employer.
> 
> Don't get angry, get accurate information.

{anti-AR book review deleted}

Rich, I have no idea why you posted that article.  It did not address the
subject I brought up about animal rights activists feeling that cruelty towards
animals paves the way for human suffering and that animal tortures such as
those in the labs that masquerade as research or those that take place on the
factory farms are unconscionable.

Let me ask you a question, Rich.  Why shouldn't animals be liberated?

-- 
****************************** "My situation is a solemn one: Life is offered
* 491MILEY@GW.WMICH.EDU      * me on the condition of eating beefsteaks...My
* or                         * will contains directions for my funeral, which
* X91MILEY@GW.WMICH.EDU      * will be followed not by mourning coaches, but by
* Tim Miley                  * oxen, sheep, flocks of poultry, and a small
* Western Michigan University* traveling aquarium of live fish, all wearing
* Kalamazoo, Michigan        * white scarves in honor of the man who perished
****************************** rather than eat his fellow-creatures..."- GBS
Newsgroups: rec.food.veg
From: eamayne@eos.ncsu.edu (ELIZABETH ANNE MAYNE)
Subject: Re: Request: Pasta Ceci
Reply-To: eamayne@eos.ncsu.edu (ELIZABETH ANNE MAYNE)
Organization: Project EOS - North Carolina State University
Distribution: usa
Date: Fri, 10 Apr 1992 14:24:44 GMT

I don't know if this is exactly what you're looking for, but what I do 
for Pasta Ceci is the following:

Sautee some garlic (the more, the better), and onions in good quality,
extra-virgin olive oil. Add salt, pepper, spices as you like. I sometimes 
stir in some pesto, and fresh spices (parsely, thyme, basil, oregano) do well,
too. For one or two people, one can of chick peas should be enough. Serve on
chunky pasta (ziti, penne, shells or twists...), or serve just with
some fresh bread.

If you're watching fat content, you can always steam the garlic and onions
in a little white wine, water or broth left over if you used dried chick
peas.

I seem to remember another recipe for a more minestra like version of this,
that is typical in Tuscany, but I'll have to do some searching to find it.

On another note, I take the same approach to a lot of pasta dishes, and add
the vegetables I like, such as broccoli or artichoke hearts, and maybe fresh 
(or at least canned, whole) tomatoes.

Hope this helps!

Beth
From: traub@rtf.bt.co.uk (Michael Traub)
Newsgroups: rec.food.veg
Subject: Re: A suggestion for rec.food.recipies
Date: 10 Apr 92 12:27:59 GMT
Organization: BT Customer Systems, Brighton, UK

In article <gnsjdh=.rfelix@netcom.com> rfelix@netcom.com (Robbie Felix) writes:
>
>While i generally enjoy your posts, I have to say this is a sad
>statement. If we don't learn tolerance amongst ourselves what *is* the
>point of the group? We all have different reasons for being here. Mine
>was to try to learn from other vegetarians about natural remedies,
>recipes, cooking techniques, new foods  etc.
>
>I did not come here to convert or to be converted. I am happy with the
>decisions I have made regarding my vegetarian lifestyle. 
>
>I have decided to move to rec.food.recipes and sci.med.
>I will no longer be reading this group as it has degenerated to
>a tolerance-free zone.
>

You seem to have read into my statement the exact opposite of what I
was trying to get across, I didn't come here to be converted either,
and I certainly am not here to convert anybody.

I merely said that I am fed up with people coming into this newsgroup
and tring to convert us!



-- 
Michael Traub
BT Customer Systems, Brighton Systems Centre. traub@rtf.bt.co.uk
From: mike@isg.llnl.gov (Michael E. Hummell)
Newsgroups: rec.food.veg
Subject: Macrobiotic COOKING CLASS; San Francisco Sat. April 11 10am-5pm
Date: 7 Apr 92 00:14:11 GMT
Distribution: ba
Organization: Lawrence Laboratory  Livermore, CA

Here is a flyer for a Macrobiotic  (Vegetarian, dairy-free) cooking class 
in San Francisco, taught by  *Susanne Jensen  and  *Veronica Crombie.

"                  NATURAL   FOODS   EXTRAVAGANZA  

                         APRIL  11, 1992  

A full day of learning how to create health-giving vegetarian foods
which will tickle your palate and please the eye.

The day will consist of a morning and afternoon class.  In the morning, you
will learn how to make quick and easy lunches.  We will discuss how to create
a balanced diet from beans, grains, vegetables, and sea-vegetables.  We will
talk about how to adjust the diet to the seasons and the importance of pickles
and condiments.

After Lunch and a walk on the beach, we will bake and make desserts.  You will
learn how to make delicious sourdough bread, sea-vegetable strudel, cake,
baked pears, amasake pudding and more.

Time:  10 am -  5pm   Saturday April 11, 1992
Place:  San Francisco
Cost:  $50

For registration/information, call:    (415) 661-4764

* Veronica Crombie is a graduate from the Kushi Institute in Boston.  For the
past five years, she has consulted in nutrition and taught whole foods cooking
in her native Ireland.

* Susanne Jensen has been cooking and teaching Natural Foods Cooking for the
last ten years.  She is a graduate and former teacher of the Kushi Institute.
"
From: traub@rtf.bt.co.uk (Michael Traub)
Newsgroups: rec.food.veg
Subject: Australian Vegetarian/Vegan Societies
Date: 16 Apr 92 07:06:05 GMT
Organization: BT Customer Systems, Brighton, UK

The following is a list of the Vegetarian and Vegan Societies in Australia.

New South Wales:

		The Australian Vegetarian Society (NSW)
		PO Box 65, Paddington, NSW 2021. Phone (02) 698 4339

		The Vegan Society (NSW)
		PO Box 467, Broadway, NSW 2007. Phone (02) 436-1373

		Organisation For Farm Animal Liberation
		PO BOX E65, East Parramatta, NSW 2150. Phone (02) 683 5991 (AH)

		The Jewish Vegetarian Society (NSW)
		C/- Tom Kramer 95/97 The Boulevarde, Strathfield, NSW 2135.
		Phone (02) 642-3110 (AH) or (02) 683 5991 (BH)

		The Australian Natural Hygiene Society, "Hygia"
		31 Cobar Road, Arcadia, NSW 2159.
		Phone (02) 653-1115 or (02) 651-2457


Queensland:

		The Australian Vegetarian Society (QLD)
		PO Box 400, South Brisbane, QLD 4101. Phone (07) 857-5589

		The Vegan Society of Brisbane
		PO Box 400, South Brisbane, QLD 4101. Phone (07) 857-5589

		Tableland Vegetarian Society
		PO Box 25, Millaa Millaa, QLD 4886


Western Australia:

		The Vegetarian Society of Western Australia
		PO Box 220, North Perth, WA 6006. Phone (09) 275-5682


South Australia:

		The Vegetarian Society of South Australia
		PO Box 46, Rundle Mall, Adelaide 5000. Phone (08) 261-3194


Victoria:

		Vegan Society of Australia
		PO Box 85, Seaford, VIC 3198. Phone (03) 862-1686


The  Magazine  is  now nationwide and produced by The Australian Vegetarian
Society,  the  NSW  Vegan  Socciety  and the Vegetarian Societies of WA and
SA.  If  you  join  any  of  these  societies  you  automatically  get  the
magazine.  Somebody  mentioned Tasmania, sorry it looks like you are out of
luck  there,  the  apple  munchers seem a bit behind. If anyone from Tassie
has information to the contrary please post it.

For those of you stuck in the NT apparently the beer is vegan:->



-- 
Michael Traub
BT Customer Systems, Brighton Systems Centre. traub@rtf.bt.co.uk
Newsgroups: rec.food.veg
From: dilip@gaspar.cis.ufl.edu (Dilip Barman)
Newsgroups: rec.food.veg
Subject: Week-long vegetarian conference in Rhode Island in early August!
Date: 14 Apr 92 19:27:42 GMT
Article-I.D.: uflorida.35108
Distribution: na
Organization: Univ. of Florida CIS Dept.



     Several weeks ago there was a posting that there will be a week-long
veg. conference in Rhode Island in early August.  I'll be in Connecticut then
so would love to attend.  Can somebody (re-)post details about the
conference?  Thanks!

      Dilip
From: traub@rtf.bt.co.uk (Michael Traub)
Newsgroups: rec.food.veg
Subject: Re: Dairy farming (Was: Ben & Jerry's ice cream)
Date: 17 Apr 92 08:03:07 GMT
Organization: BT Customer Systems, Brighton, UK

In article <1992Apr16.210732.23036@psych.toronto.edu> michael@psych.toronto.edu (Michael Gemar) writes:
>In article <5020390@hpindda.cup.hp.com> gph@hpindda.cup.hp.com (Paul Houtz) writes:
>
>>Cream is extremely high in saturated fat and cholesterol.  The eggs used
>>are unborn chickens, fertile or not, and I won't eat them.  
>
>Not to pick nits, but unfertile eggs are no more unborn chickens that
>unfertilized ova are unborn humans.  If it ain't fertilized, it ain't
>gonna be a chicken.

On the contrary, they are still unborn chickens. What is so important
about the act of fertilisation? If they are not fertilised, then they
don't become chickens, if they are fertilised they might. So?


-- 
   "This isn't an argument, you're just contradicting me!"  "No I'm not."
   
Michael Traub
BT Customer Systems, Brighton Systems Centre. traub@rtf.bt.co.uk
From: dm3o+@andrew.cmu.edu (David F. McWade)
Newsgroups: rec.food.veg
Subject: Re: A suggestion for rec.food.recipes
Date: 13 Apr 92 16:36:00 GMT
Article-I.D.: andrew.wduPVkG00VB_4Ir0YD
Organization: Senior, English, Carnegie Mellon, Pittsburgh, PA


Rich Young writes:

>  Why run when the odds get poor?  The intolerance can't actually DO anything
>  to you and the more intolerant the statements, the more foolish the speaker.
>  What I'M afraid will happen is that the firestorms and flame wars will
>  drive away the more rational readers and leave a polarized group of flamers
>  like the ones in alt.abortion; if this happens, much useful information
>  will be lost, and some mighty tasty (and healthy) recipes will be kept
>  private.  Carol is the second in a trend starting over the past few days.

Considering, Rich, that you have written some of the most inflammatory
stuff on this list (like your .sig), I really don't think you're one to
talk.

Dave
Newsgroups: rec.food.veg
From: krissie@locus.com (Krissie Griffiths)
Subject: Re: LEATHER
Organization: Locus Computing Corp, Los Angeles
Date: Tue, 07 Apr 1992 16:45:04 GMT

In article <1992Apr7.013529.8091@news.eng.convex.com> jjohnson@convex.com (Jennifer L. Johnson) writes:
>
>I do
>  . give all I can afford (and sometimes more) to animal protection groups
>  . adopt lots of strays and shelter-animals
>  . write letters to manufacturers of cosmetic and household products asking
>      them to stop animal testing, and to congress-critters in support of
>      animal protection legislation
>  . participate in local and national animal rights demonstrations
>  . attend animal rights conferences and symposiums (to stay informed)
>
>That goes a bit beyond your question, but if I'm correct in
>assuming your question is really about consistency, then I've attempted
>to show how at least one "vegetarian of the heart" tries to be consistent.
>
yea jennifer!!!!!!!!!! way to go girl.  from another vegan of the heart who
tries to be consistent.

kg
From: jlacey@cbnewsl.cb.att.com (james.w.lacey)
Newsgroups: rec.food.veg
Subject: Re: Flour Tortillas
Date: 7 Apr 92 16:54:52 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: AT&T

In article <1992Apr7.144911.7380@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu> jhoskins@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (James M Hoskins) writes:
>
>All day long at work I dream about the evening meal and wrapping things up in 
>flour tortillas.  Currently, it's refried beans and rice, plus tomatoes, 
>lettuce, hot pepper sauce etc.
>
>My question is:  would someone post other types of foods and can be wrapped up
>in flour tortillas?

Most vegetables make excellent tortilla fillings, either sauted or
steamed prior to being put in the tortilla.  Examples are
zucinni, celery, carrots, corn, and brocolli.  When I want
a quick dinner, I cook some frozen veggies in the microwave
(there are several choices of mixed veggies available), add
it to some refried beans, wrap in a tortilla, and cover with
some salsa.  Then microwave for a few minutes.

A couple of weeks ago, I had a tofu and mushroom burrito,
which consisted of some tofu cubes and sauted mushrooms
as filling.  Not bad, but a bit bland for my tastes.



-- 
Jim Lacey          
my own opinions    
email:  att!cbnewsl!jlacey  or  jlacey@cbnewsl.cb.att.com
From: parrikar@csn.org (Rajan Parrikar)
Subject: Re: India (was Re: Dairy farming (Was: Ben & Jerry's ice cream))
Organization: University of Colorado, Boulder
Date: Thu, 16 Apr 1992 20:35:10 GMT

In article <1992Apr16.091415.20895@rtf.bt.co.uk> traub@rtf.bt.co.uk (Michael Traub) writes:
>In article <m0lb9A9-00000dC@bootes.cus.cam.ac.uk> RCJ@AUTOMATION.UNIVERSITY-LIBRARY.CAMBRIDGE.AC.UK writes:
>>
>>With regard  to where  the calves go to make way for the ice
>>cream guzzlers, I wonder what happens in India?
>>
>>India has  a dairy  industry. Indians  are not  renowned for
>>widespread veal  consumption. Anyone  KNOW what  happens  to
>>surplus calves there?
>
>This  is  a  complex question and the answer varies wildly depending on the
>region  of  India  you are talking about. I personally only have experience
>with  Southern  India,  particularly  Bombay  and Goa. The information I am
                                       ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Both Bombay and Goa are considered to be in western India.

>providing is therefore often second hand and may be inaccurate.
>
>India  is  a  vast  and  diverse country. Many people think it is a country
>full  of  Hindus  but  this  is  far from the case. India probably has more
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Wrong! India IS full of Hindus. Over 8 in every 10 persons are Hindu.

>different  religions  within  her  borders  than  any  other  country. As a
>result it also has more public holidays than any other country:->
>
>The  dietary  restrictions  of  the  religions  in  India  range  from near
>fruitarian   (the   Pharsees)   to  those  that  would  eat  anything  (the
>Catholics).  The  diet  also  seems  to  change  depending  on  the region.
>Generally  the  further  south  you  travel  the  higher  the  incidence of
>vegetarianism.

There is a strong component of vegetarianism in northern India too. Heard
of the cow belt??

>
>Within  the  Hindu  religion there are many who consume cows without qualm.

There are Hindus who consume cows; however there aren't *many* Hindus
who consume cows. 
(Even among non-vegetarian Hindus, meat is never a central feature
in their diet.)

***deleted***

>
>The  Christians  in India (and there are quite a few) take great delight in
>the  "foolishness"  of  the  other religions and eat whatever is going. All
>the  Catholics  I  met  in  India considered we were insane to not eat meat

None of the Catholics I met in India thought I was insane to not eat
meat. And since I'm from Goa, I should know.


Rajan Parrikar
==============
email: parrikar@mimicad.colroado.edu
From: twain@milton.u.washington.edu (Barbara Hlavin)
Newsgroups: rec.food.veg
Subject: Re: A suggestion for rec.food.recipies
Date: 14 Apr 92 20:41:41 GMT
Organization: University of Washington, Seattle

In article <1992Apr11.133159.21635@clpd.kodak.com> young@sasquatch.serum.kodak.com (Rich Young (x37176)) writes:
>
>  What I'M afraid will happen is that the firestorms and flame wars will
>  drive away the more rational readers and leave a polarized group of flamers
>  like the ones in alt.abortion; if this happens, much useful information
>  will be lost, and some mighty tasty (and healthy) recipes will be kept
>  private.  Carol is the second in a trend starting over the past few days.


Count me the third then.  I've been reading this group and rec.food.cooking 
for three years, and Carol Miller-Tutzauer has been consistently one of 
the nicest, most courteous posters in any group, and I have always 
appreciated both her phenomenal knowledge of food and food preparation and 
her generosity in sharing her resources. 

I am disgusted by Michael Traub's insufferable rudeness to Carol among 
others, and bored with the way he's been monopolising what has in the past      been an interesting and useful discussion group. 

Barbara
From: traub@rtf.bt.co.uk (Michael Traub)
Newsgroups: rec.food.veg
Subject: Re: Is there a doctor in the house?
Date: 16 Apr 92 21:39:17 GMT
Organization: BT Customer Systems, Brighton, UK

In article <1992Apr16.161316.17295@ssd.kodak.com> young@sasquatch.serum.kodak.com (Rich Young (x37176)) writes:
>traub@rtf.bt.co.uk (Michael Traub) writes:
>>>Other articles recently relating to nutrition and the vegan/vegetarian diet
>>>have begun to take the tone of: "Don't trust your doctor, he is a paid
>>>lackey of the meat/dairy industry;  we on the net know the true path to
>>>health and you should trust us."  This is very, very wrong. 
>>>
>>Anyone ever see anything *remotely* like this posted to rec.food.veg?
>>                         ^^^^^^^^^^
>>No, I haven't either. Lying to try and get a point across is bad form.
>
>>>>Anyway, this is what we are up against when arguing veganism or
>>>>vegetarianism for health reasons.  After all, why are people going to
>>>>believe a bunch of "obviously biased" (sarcasm) vegetarians when their
>>>>doctor or nutritionist tells them to drink milk or eat meat?  Trying to
>>>>explain that doctors and many nutritionists recieve a biased education
>>>>and you shouldn't trust them very much isn't going to work with a lot of
>>>>people; saying that vegans and vegetarians live longer and are healthier
>>>>might do some good, maybe.

When I said remote Rich I didn't mean 10,000 light years away. I can't
see *any* references to doctors being paid by the meat and dairy industries
in the paragraph you have quoted.

I also can't see *any* reference to anyone indicating that their word
should be trusted ahead of a doctors.

Do you want to have another go Rich?


-- 
   "This isn't an argument, you're just contradicting me!"  "No I'm not."
   
Michael Traub
BT Customer Systems, Brighton Systems Centre. traub@rtf.bt.co.uk
From: ded@kps.UUCP (David Edwards /DP)
Newsgroups: rec.food.veg
Subject: Re: the single veggie flame war
Date: 10 Apr 92 12:53:25 GMT
Organization: Kuwait Petroleum, Stockholm, Sweden

In article <tBh+Mk_@engin.umich.edu> camber@irie.ais.org (Brian Bruns) writes:
>
>I have a friend who is totally anti-vegatarian.  He won't even consider
>eating a meatless meal.  He actually believes it is God's will that men eat
>meat.  This is an extreme case, granted, but most of the non-veg's I know
>will not eat meatless meals.

Thanks to the person who posted the excerpts from "Diet for a New 
America" a few months ago.

The other day A friend of mine who is an avid runner told me he went 
to a seminar on "Endurance Training". He said they took the question 
of diet and showed a big slide of a piece of meat to show what was 
"necessary", (presumably since meat is full of iron). I told him not 
to believe everything he hears, to which he replied, "But these people 
are *experts*, David. There is nothing you can say! You'd just be
fooling yourself". 

Later I took out a printout of all the veg. atheletes listed in above 
article who have won just endurance events (Dave Scott etc). He was 
speechless.  I hope he converts. He is one of those types who believes 
he must have meat with every meal or else he will surely perish. 

David Edwards
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
The surface of the strange, forbidden planet was roughly textured and green,
much like cottage cheese gets way after the date on the lid says it is all
right to buy it.--Scott Jones
From: mhudak@igc.org (Michael J. Hudak)
Newsgroups: rec.food.veg
Subject: Source of Pizza Hut's meat?
Date: 8 Apr 92 04:27:00 GMT
Article-I.D.: igc.1451200003
Nf-ID: #N:cdp:1451200003:000:230
Nf-From: cdp.UUCP!mhudak    Apr  7 21:27:00 1992


I've heard that Pizza Hut uses meat on its pizzas that is derived
from dead and dying animals that have been relegated to "sick
piles" or "dead piles" at stockyards.

Can anyone substantiate or refute this rumor?  Thanks.

--Mike