From: ulick@chopin.helios.nd.edu (Ulick Stafford)
Newsgroups: soc.rights.human,soc.culture.europe,soc.culture.celtic,eunet.politics,talk.politics.misc
Subject: Re: Separation vs. integration (Was Re: The European Community Blackmailed by Greece)
Date: 24 Jul 92 18:09:03 GMT
Organization: University of Notre Dame, Notre Dame

In article <1992Jul24.092851.20554@dscomsf.desy.de> hallam@zeus02.desy.de writes:
>|>
>|>Firstly, a correction.  Eire is a Gaelic word and is oncorrect (in
>|>Irish
>|>courts, anyway) when used in an English sentence.  
>
>It's what the country calls itself. The English language is known for
>it's ability to absorb such foriegn words as `bungalow' which you would
>have known wer you au fait with it. The Irish courts are not an arbiter
>of the English language.
>

My, you are an arrogant little bastard.  We all know that the English have a
God given right to abuse their language whatever way they think fit, e.g.
not pronouncing r's and occasionaly h's and using vowals sounds that make
linguists shudder, but I was trying to correct a non English speaker, a
Finn, that Irish people do not like the word Eire, which is Gaelic, being
used as a synomyn for the 26 counties in English sentences.  Eire means
Ireland, which is the entire island, and is the official name for the
country as Gaeilge and it implies a claim on the whole Ireland, and
menas the exact same as Ireland does in English, which is the word that 
should be used when speaking English. If you want to imply Ireland as
the 26 counties, please use the expression `Irish republic'.
 
>|>Ireland is preferred.
>
>Nope, Not in this context, we prefer that you use anything but the
>language of appologists for murder and hatred.

Are you saying that English is the language of apologists for murder and
hatred?  That is insulting to all English speakers including me, many
readers of this, and I guess, yourself.

>Ireland has not separated from the UK, it was partitioned, Southern
>Ireland is not a country, Eire is.

What does this bullshit mean? Western Germany is not a country, 
Deutschland is?  

>Given the logic of the original poster, once we have got shot of Ulster
>they will immediately set up shop as a separate country. The Protestant
>terrorists would probably try at the very least, they have threatened as
>much.

Correction.  Ulster and Northern Ireland are not the same, but then I
suppose, when you use the word Eire to mean
something it doesn't, calling NI, Ulster is a small enough error.

>
>|>But, Ireland was relatively denuded of wealth by Britain in the 19th
>|>century.  
>
>Cue ethnic Irish-American sob story which ends up as the justification
>for blowing the kneecaps of 16 year old kids for joyriding and murdering
>17 year old girls.

Firstly, I am Irish, not American, if that is what you imply, and while
you may claim that the above is a sob story, it is also the truth.  And,
no, it justifies none of the above.  Two wrongs do not make a right, but
you are lowering the tone of this discussion.  Originally, I was simply 
trying to illustrate that there are differences between the historical
relationships of Ireland and Britain, and Bohemia and Slovakia.

>|>No industry was ever developed, except in the Northeast
>|>that Britain still occupies.
>
>Not occupies, remains part of the UK because the people in the north a)
>vote in referendum after referendum to remain so, and b) because the
>protestant terrorists threatened a bloodbath at the time of separation
>and the cabinet were weak kneed.

There has never been a referendum on the Union since NI was formed, and
somehow I don't think the attitude of the British govt. at the treaty
talks and in relation to the subsequent Boundary commission farce could
be considered neutral.

>|>  Agriculture on vast estates owned by
>|>absentee British landlords was the main industry, and while 1 million
>|>people dies of famine in Ireland in the 1840's, Ireland remained a 
>|>net exporter of food - grain that was the landlord's rent.
>
>More blub stories, in case you didn't realise, at the time the British
>empire covered a quarter of the globe and the English upper classes
>didn't have it in for Ireland exclusively.

So, it was OK to screw Ireland too?  And don't blame upper classes.
The UK had a large degree of democracy then, and all strati of society
gained some economic benefit from colonialism.  There wasn't exactly
much opposition to such activities.

 They never asked the British
>people about any of it either. However despite this Ulick will try to
>make it appear that over a hundred years later, after becomming a
>democracy and after the upper classes were brought down to size by
>Llloyd George, that the UK is still the evil empire and that there is
>nothing the british like to do better than have a pleasant evening by
>the fire torturing a young Irish child with a branding Iron.

I never implied anything of the sort.  Show me where in my previous post,
or anywhere I said this.  I was born in England, my mother is English,
many of my relatives are English.  When I visit the country, I find the
people very friendly and hospitable.  But I don't think anybody there 
cares about what goes on in NI, either way, which is indeed true of many
people in the 26 counties.  Naturally, they don't like IRA bombs going
off in London.  That affects them.  But on the other hand you have to 
realise that many people in NI, don`t like the behaviour of the Govt.
there, which is let's face it, not a governemnt of the people there.

>But don't think by this that I am in favour of NI remaining in the UK.
>The sooner we are shot of the lot of them the better. Time for GB to
>declare UDI and parachute out of the Union.

Well why don`t you do something about it then?  If you really cared either
way, you'd at least write to your MP and let him know how you feel, and
save us all the agony of reading through this crap.


+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ 
+ 'There was a  master come unto the earth, + Ulick Stafford, PP-ASEL       +
+    born in the holy land of Indiana,      + Dept of Chemical Engineering, +
+ in the mystical hills east of Fort Wayne'.+ Notre Dame, IN 46556          +
+      B'fhearr liom bheith ag eitilt.      +    ulick@bach.helios.nd.edu   +
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++