HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: achin@math.tamu.edu (Andrew Chin)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.asian.american
Subject: Any readers outside North America?
Date: 1 Jan 1993 07:36:42 GMT
Organization: Dept of Mathematics, Texas A&M University
Distribution: world
Reply-To: achin@math.tamu.edu
NNTP-Posting-Host: math.tamu.edu

As I'll be moving to London <achin@dcs.kcl.ac.uk> sometime in the next
month, I'm wondering again about this group's readership outside North
America.  (This group was a much-needed lifeline when I was in Oxford,
and I've already made sure that King's College London gets it too.)

In response to some readership estimates posted a few months
back, I countered with the rather wild claim that no one outside the
US even knows of the existence of Asian-Americans.  I only heard 
rebuttals from Canada, so I'm still wondering about the rest of the 
world.

So if you're reading this from outside North America, please send a
quick email message.  I'll summarize repl(y)(ies), if any. 
---
Andrew Chin    Dept. of Math.    Texas A&M U.    College Station, TX 77843
achin@math.tamu.edu   Probably not TAMU's exact opinions.   (409) 845-0261
                * Fighting racism is not a special interest *

Newsgroups: soc.culture.asian.american
From: underdog@leland.Stanford.EDU (Dwight Joe)
Subject: Re: On Languages and Asian Americans
Organization: Miners for a Heart of Gold
Date: Fri, 25 Dec 92 02:06:12 GMT

In article <42860@sdcc12.ucsd.edu> mcovingt@sdcc13.ucsd.edu (Maiko Covington)
writes:
>Okay... If I am truly free to teach my child any language I speak,
>how about if I *huge grin*

<kowaku naridasu>

>decide to teach them.... CHINESE???

<waratte iru>

>Is
>that any worse than my teaching them Japanese, or Inuit?

Tonde mo nai.

Fine with me.  As I've said before, I don't see a problem with learning
the Chinese-cu language.  Heck.  People still learn the languages of
older, now extinct, cultures that were even more unsophisticated than
Chinese-cu culture (as if that were possible).

>I guess I'm
>just going to hell in a handbasket already, because if my Chinese

"Hell in a handbasket"?  Nan to iu koto desu ka.

>approaches decent levels (I hope it will someday) then I'd certainly
>want to teach it to my kid.
>Maybe I'm really awful, but there IS a reason I'd teach my kid
>Chinese if I were Chinese-cu, and Japanese because I'm from there.
>It's simple: it is the language of the culture *I* am a member of. I
>*want* to pass that culture on to my kid, so the language of that
>culture is an obvious choice. There IS more to it than just learning
>a language, in this case. I want my kid to understand ME, to
>understand what world *I* live in, where I'm from. I'm going to
>teach the kid that language so we can communicate these things, so
>he/she can share in my world.
>		Maiko

I agree with this as long as (1) Mai-chan isn't forcing her children to learn
the subject and (2) she agrees that it's perfectly all right for a
Chinese-ge mother to encourage her children to learn Korean-cu instead of
Chinese-cu.  Since she is approaching the matter from that angle, then
more power to her.

Note that this approach is different from the one that Martian-cu parents
use.  They either (1) force their children to learn the Martian-cu language
or (2) think that it's morally depraved for a Martian-ge mother to encourage
ther children to learn Korean-cu instead of Martian-cu.  This is vastly
different from Mai-chan's approach.

We all know who the Martians are.

------------------------------------------------------------------+------------
Jinsei no imi wa nan desu ka.                Sister, can you      |   \|  |`
Shitte itara oshiete kuremasen ka.           spare a coin?        |    | -+-
                                                                  |   /| / \
Copyright 1992.  Disclaimer:  1 + 1 = 3                           |
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Newsgroups: soc.culture.asian.american
From: gld@cunixb.cc.columbia.edu (Gary L Dare)
Subject: Re: On Languages and Asian Americans
Reply-To: gld@cunixb.cc.columbia.edu (Gary L Dare)
Organization: The Bates Motel
Date: Thu, 24 Dec 1992 22:19:08 GMT

yu@physun.physics.mcmaster.ca (Frank F. Yu) writes:
>
>Then we look at the Chinese people in America. Teaching the next
>generation Chinese(Mandarin or Cantonese) has a justifiable high
>priority. Just think about if these kids want to talk to their
>grandma, or a lot of sales people in China town.

This phenomenom has already been well-known in white ethnic
communities.  The necessity for knowing Italian as dropped
dramatically across generations of New Yorkers, but it didn't
drop off overnight.  The evolution of the Corleone family in
"The Godfather", parts 1 through 3 (including flashbacks to
WW I Little Italy when Vito arrived) has similiar parallels
(okay, not the Mafia aspect (-;) equally valid to Chinese or
to Portugese (e.g., in Toronto; a number of secretaries at my
old job in Toronto were Canadian-born children of Portugese
immigrants and I could see the pattern).

>The reason why Chinese people have not become members of this society
>in a sense is the long existing racial discrimination in this country.

If you're new, Mr. Joe's attacks centre around ethnic Chinese with
any sort of old world attachment.  I'll just leave it at that ...

>I don't really belong here because I am not an American. 
>But when there is no soc.culture.chinese.canadian,

I'm Canadian, I think of this as soc.culture.asian.NORTH-american;
the issues discussed are generally applicable through both North
and South America, Australia and Europe, too.

gld
--
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Je me souviens ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Gary L. Dare
> gld@cunixd.cc.columbia.EDU 		Support NAFTA
> gld@cunixc.BITNET			 Eat Mexican  (El Teddy's ad)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.asian.american
From: amiller@almaden.ibm.com (Alex Miller)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.asian.american
Subject: Re: Blonds and AFs
Date: 23 Dec 1992 13:12:08 -0600
Organization: UTexas Mail-to-News Gateway
NNTP-Posting-Host: cs.utexas.edu

In <BzMIHK.Gu7@animal.er.bell.ca>
  rpark@stam (Richard Park) writes:

> As a matter of fact, yes.  If just looking at chinese females and CM, it
> is common that their counterpart is Jewish more often than any other
> race. I don;'t know the reasoning behind this but can only speculate.  The
> chinese females fit along the following lines: eduated, professional,
> intelligent, hard working, not into drugs, alcohol, smoking which I,
> myself, find attractive traits...

I think that Chinese and Jewish students are generally high
achievers who share a common problem:  very pushy parents.

So, there are similar goals and similar problems.

What about deliberate rebellion again their family?

When I was in Junior High School, I recall the scandal that my
cousin Mark caused when he dated, then married Marlene, a black
woman from Jamaica.  I didn't think much of it, since I grew up
in Manhattan and was accustomed to mixed marriages.

Family members chided me about finding a nice Jewish girl to
marry.  They were concerned because my best friend from 4th
grade through college was Chinese, and they extrapolated that
I was also attracted to Chinese women.  By the way, my best
friend married a Jewish woman.

Alex
amiller@almaden.ibm.com
Newsgroups: soc.culture.asian.american
From: ajh@Xenon.Stanford.EDU (Alan Hu)
Subject: Women Asking Men Out (was Re: Asian males aren't attractive?)
Organization: Computer Science Department, Stanford University.
Date: Wed, 30 Dec 1992 19:19:27 GMT

In article <1992Dec30.154435.2597@nynexst.com> clare@nynexst.com (Clare Chu) writes:
>In article <1992Dec29.230100.11946@utagraph.uta.edu> thao@cse.uta.edu (Laly Thao) writes:
	[Anecdotes of Clare's AAF friends deleted.]
>
>  I've had near-zippity-do-da success in "asking" AA guys out.  I usually
>  suggest lunch in the cafeteria, which is okay.  But never followed up on.

You know, I hear women (of all ethnicities) complaining that men (of all
ethnicities) don't like being asked out.  I hear this over and over.
And I can't figure it out.  When someone asks me out, I'm both very flattered
and also very impressed that the woman actually took the initiative and
asserted herself.  That's frequently enough to boost someone who I hadn't
noticed into someone I'm definitely intrigued by.  In fact, off hand, I
don't think I've ever turned down a first date request, unless I was
already busy, in which case I'd try to reschedule.  So am I just weird?
Are most men out there turned off when someone asks them out?

						--Alan Hu

>
>  How can you tell which AF is a twinkie and which one isn't?  Explain.
>  Or do you just blithely assume that any AAF who speaks perfect English
>  and dresses fashionably is a twinkie?  In that case you're the one making
>  unwarranted assumptions.  
>
[A good point I wanted to reiterate.]
From: gwangung@carson.u.washington.edu (Roger Tang)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.asian.american
Subject: Re: Women Asking Men Out (was Re: Asian males aren't attractive?)
Date: 31 Dec 1992 08:37:59 GMT
Organization: University of Washington, Seattle
NNTP-Posting-Host: carson.u.washington.edu

	Then, of course, there's the little matter of WHO is doing the asking.
Guess things are a LEETLE bit different if it isn't Elle McPherson or
Joan Chen who's doing the asking.



-- 
Roger Tang, gwangung@u.washington.edu
Producer Emeritus, Asian Theatre at the UW
	"The definition of balls is for a non-singer to go karaoke singing
with the cast of a musical revue."
From: georgew@hspice.portal.com (George Wu)
Subject: Re: Blonds and AFs
Organization: Meta - Software
Date: Tue, 22 Dec 1992 22:55:55 GMT

In article <1992Dec19.052109.164@sbcs.sunysb.edu> ejohnfel@csws17.ic.sunysb.edu () writes:

>She has also mention that all the American guys who seem to
>actively seek to win her hand are all Jewish. No offense to the Jewish
>population, but has anyone else noticed this phenomenon?

     An AAF friend of mine who has dated several Jewish men asked one of her
boyfriends about this.  He said Jews are pressured to marry other Jews and
Asians disresemble Jews so much that Asians represent the ultimate "forbidden
fruit," and hence the attraction.

     Gee, aren't Asians under some pressure to marry other Asians . . .


							George


-- 
----
George J Wu,  Superior Maker of Technical Snafus,  georgew@metasw.com
Meta-Software,  1300 White Oaks Road,  Campbell, CA 95008,  (408) 369-5400
Never be the first to believe.  Never be the last to deceive.  ---  Chess
Newsgroups: soc.culture.asian.american
From: edwardz@ecs.comm.mot.com (Edward Zhong)
Subject: Re: Hong Kong Students (Was: Re: Asian cliques. Why?)
Organization: trunking_fixed
Date: Wed, 30 Dec 1992 13:52:53 GMT
Keywords: Asian-Americans

In article <1992Dec20.220626.20440@jho.com> john@jho.com (John Ho) writes:
>>>BTW, can anyone explain to me the phenomenon surrounding the students
>>>from Hong Kong?  I seem to get the impression that they all have very
>>>wealthy parents and can afford to drive around BMW's and Porsches
>>>(really! there are usually at least 6 BMW's parked on one block 
>>>on campus).  
>
>Not all HK students come from a wealthy family.  There are those 
>who come to the US on a one-way ticket with only a few hundred
>dollars in their pocket.  
>-- 
>John Ho from Dallas, Texas USA. (john@jho.com)   

asian americans (or hk students) and other americans have different value.
if i have $1000 to spend each month, i will spend $400 apartment, $200 
on food and cloth, another $200 on car (it could be a used bmw), and put the
rest $200 in my saving account. i think a "normal" amercian counterpart
may spend $600 on housing, $250 on food and cloth, and somehow spend
the last $150 on traveling or whatever. he doesn't think he can affort
a car on the $1000 buget.

if you check carefully on the hk student owned bmws, you will find that
90% of them are bought as used.

it is not about what's right and what's wrong. it is culture difference.

-- 
=================================================================================
Ed Zhong, Motorola Inc. (LMPS)      |  my money works for me;
edwardz@ecs.comm.mot.com            |  i work to make my money work for me.
From: david@elwood.NoSubdomain.NoDomain (David Johnson)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.asian.american
Subject: Re: On Languages and Asian Americans
Date: 28 Dec 92 18:09:06 GMT

In article <1992Dec26.180455.9624@mcshub.dcss.mcmaster.ca>, yu@physun.physics.mcmaster.ca (Frank F. Yu) writes:
|> In article <1992Dec25.000616.818@leland.Stanford.EDU> underdog@leland.Stanford.EDU (Dwight Joe) writes:
|> 
|> [Damn, it makes my hands sore to delete this whole bulls**t*]
|> 
|> >
|> >On the contrary, I have just demonstrated (yet again) that another 
|> >Chinese-cu Chinese-ge believes that the state of being Chinese-ge
|> >compels one to be Chinese-cu.  This is a view shared by rednecks,
|> >Klansmen, and Nazis.

|> 
|> It seems that Dwight Joe has yet to learn to respect people who function
|> differently from him. To be honest, if both of us were placed in the current
|> Germany, Joe is more likely to become a skinhead than anyone else.
|> (Could you also imagine Joe ever makes it to the Star Fleet? Never! Unless
|> Hitler is the Head of the Academy.)
|> 
|> That's my opinion. 

I am almost 100% certain that Dwight Joe is Chinese-ge so even if
his statements may sometimes sound skinhead-ish, he would not
be accepted by the "Skinhead mainstream."

Dwight Joe does have at least a foot in this world, at least in
what he said above.  My mother was adopted out to a Hawaiian family
when she was a baby and got to know her natural family (Chinese)
after she became an adult.  One of her natural sisters feels strongly
that my mother should "convert" to Chinese culture since my mother
is ethnically Chinese and pressures her to do so.  The pressures
this sister puts on my mother actually turns her against Chinese
culture.

My mother thought she liked Chinese culture when she got
to know my girlfriend in college who was from Beijing.  After
this aunt found out about my Chinese girlfriend she even put
more pressure on my mother.  Now my mother is totally put off by
Chinese culture and asserts her Hawaiian culture.
-- 
David Johnson
XLNT Designs, Inc. (XDI)
david@xlnt.com
Newsgroups: soc.culture.asian.american
From: epwong@nyx.cs.du.edu (Elliott Wong)
Subject: Re: chopsticks vs forks
Organization: University of Denver, Dept. of Math & Comp. Sci.
Date: Tue, 22 Dec 92 02:35:14 GMT

ajh@Xenon.Stanford.EDU (Alan Hu) writes:
>In article <893@blue.cis.pitt.edu> babar+@pitt.edu (Jonggu Moon) writes:

>>Why did Asia devlope the chopsticks while Europe devloped the fork ?
>>- jon

>Probably materials available and historical accident:
>Europeans were eating with their bare hands, and later bare hands
>and knives, until quite recently, anthropologically speaking.
>(The Oxford English Dictionary gives 1463 as the earliest reference
>to forks being used for food.)  Chopsticks are much older.  Possibly
>the availability of bamboo encouraged their development.
>						--Alan Hu

	According to Yan in PBS' "Yan Can Cook," the Chinese had at
one time in their history used knives and forks. I don't know if it's
speculation or not, but he says that they 'evolved' away from cutting
at the table so food is prepared bite-sized or chopstick sized. Go figure...

Newsgroups: soc.culture.asian.american
From: ra01+@andrew.cmu.edu (Rikiya Asano)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.asian.american
Subject: Re: Looking for African-American female
Date: 31 Dec 92 18:08:53 GMT
Article-I.D.: andrew.YfEwDJi00WBOM2Jlcv
	<C03qt9.IL9@mentor.cc.purdue.edu>
Distribution: soc
Organization: Carnegie Mellon, Pittsburgh, PA

Tony C,

.

    are you That person?
Newsgroups: soc.culture.asian.american
From: yu@physun.physics.mcmaster.ca (Frank F. Yu)
Subject: Re: On Languages and Asian Americans
Originator: yu@physun
Organization: Dept. of Physics & Astronomy, McMaster University
Date: Sat, 26 Dec 1992 18:04:55 GMT

In article <1992Dec25.000616.818@leland.Stanford.EDU> underdog@leland.Stanford.EDU (Dwight Joe) writes:

[Damn, it makes my hands sore to delete this whole bulls**t*]

>
>On the contrary, I have just demonstrated (yet again) that another 
>Chinese-cu Chinese-ge believes that the state of being Chinese-ge
>compels one to be Chinese-cu.  This is a view shared by rednecks,
>Klansmen, and Nazis.
>

It seems that Dwight Joe has yet to learn to respect people who function
differently from him. To be honest, if both of us were placed in the current
Germany, Joe is more likely to become a skinhead than anyone else.
(Could you also imagine Joe ever makes it to the Star Fleet? Never! Unless
Hitler is the Head of the Academy.)

That's my opinion. 

Frank
From: q2tj@vax5.cit.cornell.edu
Newsgroups: soc.culture.asian.american
Subject: religious attitudes of Asian Americans (question)
Date: 27 Dec 92 18:44:36 EST
Distribution: soc
Organization: Cornell University

I'm curious about what religions Asian Americans tend to
follow.  Budhist, Christian, Jewish??? or just plain
old Secular (ie no real religion or affiliations)  Anyone
know any stats on this, or have some feeling on how this
divides up? What about sketches of attitudes on this subject???

thanks
Steve
q2tj@vax5.cit.cornell.edu

Newsgroups: soc.culture.asian.american
From: underdog@leland.Stanford.EDU (Dwight Joe)
Subject: Re: On Languages and Asian Americans
Organization: Miners for a Heart of Gold
Date: Thu, 24 Dec 92 02:39:37 GMT

In article <42841@sdcc12.ucsd.edu> mcovingt@sdcc13.ucsd.edu (Maiko Covington)
writes:
>[good information deleted]
>[Ms. Covington claims/implies that she will teach her children Japanese-ge
> even though she is European-ge.]
>P.S. Let me also add that I don't think only people with some sort
>of other racial background have the opportunity to have their kids
>be bilingual. If you are studying a language in college, or learned
>it some other way, why not teach it to your kid? Heck, I'm white as
>white gets (nihon sodachi though) and since I was raised bicultural,
>I think I have a responsibility to pass it on to my children,
>regardless of what blood they end up having in them.

This is the enlightened approach.

However, there are many bozos (and they know who they are) who claim that
Ms. Covington is committing a grave sin for not teaching her children
the language "of her ethnicity" (quotes intended).  For example, suppose that
Ms. Covington were ethnically German-ge.  Then, the bozos claim that the
heritage of Ms. Covington's children is German-cu and that the language
which she should teach her children is German-cu, in addition to the English
that is taught in the public schools.

This view is extremely bigotted and racist.

A person should be free to choose any heritage or culture that she desires,
regardless of her ethnicity.  Specifically, if you are Chinese-ge, you 
are free to choose Korean-cu culture and language to transmit to your
children.   There is absolutely nothing wrong with this.


------------------------------------------------------------------+------------
Jinsei no imi wa nan desu ka.                Sister, can you      |   \|  |`
Shitte itara oshiete kuremasen ka.           spare a coin?        |    | -+-
                                                                  |   /| / \
Copyright 1992.  Disclaimer:  1 + 1 = 3                           |
------------------------------------------------------------------+------------
Newsgroups: soc.culture.asian.american
From: shaw@au-bon-pain.lcs.mit.edu (Andy Shaw)
Subject: Re: The Chinese Name
Organization: MIT Lab for Computer Science, Cambridge, Mass.
Date: Sun, 3 Jan 1993 23:31:29 GMT

In article <CLIPPER.93Jan3180726@mccarthy.csd.uwo.ca> clipper@mccarthy.csd.uwo.ca (Khun Yee Fung) writes:
   What is a Chinese name? Do all Chinese have Chinese names? Are there
   non-Chinese with Chinese names? Where did the names come from? Where
   are they going?

Well, this doesn't have much to do with s.c.a.a. (other than Dwight's
obsession with Chinese names).

To bring it back to s.c.a.a. content, one of my old friends from Chinese
school recently married a Korean-American guy, and she said that some of
the mothers back in the Chinese community in Cleveland were somewhat taken
aback, but, she said, they all said the same thing: "At least he has a
Chinese name (Lee)".  She was pretty amused ...

-Andy
From: bhchan@soda.berkeley.edu (Billy H. Chan)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.asian.american
Subject: Re: On Languages and Asian Americans
Date: 4 Jan 1993 00:37:22 GMT
Organization: U.C. Berkeley, CS Undergraduate Association
NNTP-Posting-Host: soda.berkeley.edu

Hi, I'm back...
anyway, this is in responce to Ms. Covington's post (which has been
lost/erase/whatever from my server, so I'll have to paraphrase) on
methods to teach kids two+ languages by seperating them locationally.
Ie..Chinese at home, English at school.
Well, personal experience here...
I can't speak Cantonese at all outside my home, though I'm pretty
comfortable with it at home.  But, back @ CAL (berkeley), I understand
what my Chinese friends/peers say when they speak in Cantonese
(and to some extent in Mandarin), but I find it extraordinarily tough
to speak in anything but English in reply.   
I think this is psychologically "imprint"ed because I grew up with
two language modes, Cantonese at home (and perhaps "thus only at
home") and English at School (and thus "only at school")  though the
latter is less "extreme" since I've long lost the ability to think
in Chinese.
More recently, I've tried to break this psychological barrier, but it's
tough.  Anyone have any insight into how this psychological barrier can
be avoided using Ms.Covington's method (since it'll probably be the one
I use when raising my kids (whom I hope to have in the future :)
Thanks.
-- 
-----------------------------------------------------------------
*	Billy H. Chan		<bhchan@ocf.berkeley.edu> 	*
*	Lost at Cal!!!   	<bhchan@soda.berkeley.edu>	*
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Newsgroups: soc.culture.asian.american