HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: le01167@portal.lasc.lockheed.com (Ron Nadel)
Subject: Re: Mahler 1
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41    
Organization: Lockheed Aeronautical Systems Co. - Rye Canyon
Date: Fri, 2 Oct 92 16:08:35 GMT

In article <1992Oct2.022221.5496@cucs5.cs.cuhk.hk>, bmtong@cucs11.cs.cuhk.hk (Tong Bo-Ming) writes...

>	I would also like to hear about all the favourite recordings of
>Mahler's 9th and Song of the Earth.  Any suggestions ?

For me, Haitink's recording from the 70's of Mahler's 9th is just
the greatest (with Concertgebouw).  The sound on the cd is even
fresher than the LP (which was great already), so that the scherzo
sounds terrific!  

In 1973 or '74, Giulini, as guest conductor, performed the 9th with
the LA Phil (sans score with eyes closed).  It was the single most
riveting and simultaneously moving musical experience of my life.
It was unbelievable.  The orchestra had never sounded better, they
responded to him wonderfully, tightly.  The standing ovation lasted
15 minutes!!! I timed it.  My friend and I were so "blown away" that
we said nothing at all on the long drive home.  As students we were
able to get low-cost standby tickets and went again 2 nights later.
Same thing happened.  I wore out my Haitink recording trying to
recapture those performances - to no avail.  Then around '77 or so
Giulini recorded it with the CSO on DGG.  Except for the scherzo
this is a very dissapointing recording.  The orchestra sounds 
great, but Giulini is Too introspective and loses momentum in
the slow movements, worst of all the finale.  I was badly frustrated.

Solti's first recording with the London orchestra was ok, but never
lived up to the Haitink, or my memory of Giulini.  He recently re-
recorded it with CSO, and it's better, but still not the Haitink -
Solti is fine in the inner movements, but not the outer ones.
I also have an older recording of the 9th conducted by Bruno Walter.
on Odyssey.  It is probably my second favorite on LP.  

I'd give anything to recapture that Giulini performance that night in
LA....

For Das Lied, I heartily recommend the Solti/CSO/Kollo/Minton recording
on DECCA, and the old Klemperer/Wunderlich/Ludwig recording on EMI...
both are terrific!

How many remember the "Mahler is Heavy" T-shirts?  And what is Giulini
doing these days.

Ron
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
From: brad@buck.viewlogic.com (Bradford Kellogg)
Subject: Re: Why LPs are superior to CDs (was Re: Why switch to CD?)
Originator: brad@buck
Organization: Viewlogic Systems, Inc.
Date: Tue, 6 Oct 1992 23:32:35 GMT


In article <Oct06.211747.65931@yuma.ACNS.ColoState.EDU>, hurben@lamar.ColoState.EDU (Mike Hurben) writes:
|> >
|> Personally, I treat my CDs with the care and respect they deserve.  I have
|> never broken a case, or snapped a CD in half by trying to yank it out of it's
|> box.  

Really? Neither have I. It seems my attempt at levity must have been a wee bit 
obfuscated (or was it obnubilated?). Oh well. 

Cheers,

- BK
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
From: cb@tamarack13.timbuk (Chris Brewster)
Subject: Re: Speaking of the Ring -- without words
In-reply-to: conrad@brahms.udel.edu's message of Wed, 30 Sep 1992 14:31:27 GMT
Organization: pubs
Date: 30 Sep 92 10:56:47 CDT


I've read that, during the period when Wagner was working on the Ring,
he gathered support for the project by conducting excerpts of it in
concert.  If this is correct (rather than, maybe he conducted older
works, etc), which excerpts did he use, and how did he deal with the
problem of beginnings and endings?

Chris Brewster
cb@cray.com

Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
From: conrad@brahms.udel.edu (Jon Conrad)
Subject: Re: Which forza/carlos/ballo to buy?
Organization: University of Delaware
Distribution: usa
Date: Wed, 30 Sep 1992 15:28:40 GMT

In article <1992Sep29.215959.15955@husc3.harvard.edu> vnguyen@husc8.harvard.edu writes:

>In article <1992Sep29.115834.21442@lloyd.Camex.COM>,

>> There is a Callas recording of Ballo taken from a performance around 1957
>> or so, with Gavazzeni conducting and Giuseppe di Stefano at his best as
>> Riccardo.  

>I would second the
>praise for this one, for those who can bear with live recordings that
>is.  The love dute in Act II has to be heard to be believed, 

Meaning what?  It's awful?  Wonderful?  How about using a few words to
tell us what it's actually like?

>and Callas
>and di Stefano sang as if there would be no tomorrow.  

Which is usually a bad thing in my view.  (i.e., wrecked their voices in
the excitement of the moment)  If you meant something different...again,
some actual brief description would be welcome.

>> There is a recording with Bjoerling and Milanov that is equally splendid,
>> though the sound is much less good, though still listenable.  
 
>Hmm, I thought that Bjoerling never recorded any Ricardo.  Is this one
>another "live recording"?  

From the Met, I would imagine.  They have offered such a performance as
part of their "contribution premium" series -- you give them $125 and
they will "give" you a deluxe copy of this.  (The only way they can
legally make such material available.)  It's also been available through
other channels, though in less good sound.  It should also be noted that
Bjoerling omits his last-act aria, as he always did in this production.

It's also true that he was twice scheduled to record Riccardo
commercially, both times to no avail.  (Toscanini, and the first Solti.)

Milanov and Bjoerling are just about the whole show in this performance,
but they are certainly enough of a show, even for the steep price.
Beautifully centered and focussed, expressive voices really put to
communicative use.  Hearing this recording makes me realize that we've
lost a lot in allotting so much responsibility for an opera performance
to the conductor.  The change happened for good reasons (performances no
longer fall apart for lack of leadership), but we have to do without the
kind of all-conquering "star" performance possible when a Bjoerling or
Milanov is the one "driving" it, and the conductor is, in the best
sense, accompanying them in their effects.  Sometimes only such a
performance makes clear what the music is all about.

Jon Alan Conrad
From: gsinghma@reed.edu (Gaurav Singhmar)
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
Subject: Request info on Weber
Date: 26 Sep 92 09:22:37 GMT
Article-I.D.: reed.1992Sep26.092237.26368
Organization: Reed College, Portland, OR

I recently heard Die Freishuetz by Weber, and I must say I'm very  
impressed. Being quite foreign to the world of western classical music, I  
don't know where to look for collections of his. If anyone would be kind  
enough to direct me, I would be most delighted and thankful.

Please answer through e-mail.

- gaurav singhmar
gsinghma@reed.edu
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
From: tait@cs.columbia.edu (Carl Tait)
Subject: Re: rachmaninoff's 2nd piano sonata scores?
Organization: Columbia University Department of Computer Science
Date: Sat, 26 Sep 1992 07:14:51 GMT

In article <1992Sep26.015347.7741@ALEX.ims.bellcore.com>
pc@thumper.bellcore.com (Peter Clitherow) writes:
>
>i have a recording of horowitz playing the b flat minor sonata that deviates
>significantly from the boosey&hawkes score i have dated 1931 'revised and 
>modified by the author'.  the blurb on the record indicated that horozitz
>felt he had to make some changes, but that he had the full approval of s.r.
>in this...  
>
>anyone have any scores of this work that more closely reflect what horowitz
>was playing in the 60s?  it certainly sounds authentic, and probably more
>difficult than the original score (many more notes!).  the record is
>columbia M30464

In 1931, Rachmaninoff decided that his Second Sonata was just too
long and difficult for pianists and audiences alike.  So he made
sweeping revisions that fall into three general categories:

1. Simplification of thick, uncomfortable passages
2. Deletion of many sections
3. New material to replace existing music

The unfortunate side effect of the new version was that it
made BOTH versions unsatisfactory.  While (1) was probably a
relief to many pianists, some of the cuts in (2) are outrageous:
in the first movement, Rachmaninoff cut (among other things)
the climax (!) of the second theme, and a beautifully moody passage
just before the coda.  But even pianists with the fingers for the
original 1913 version didn't want to play it as written: some of the
new material in the 1931 text was clearly superior -- most strikingly,
the endings of the first two movements.

Horowitz, who was never exactly a purist in these matters, talked
to his friend Rachmaninoff about the situation.  Horowitz played
his own hybrid version for the composer, and claims it was well-received.
It is undoubtedly exciting, and the Columbia recording you have is
far superior to the 1980 RCA version now available on CD, in which
Horowitz' advancing age is all too noticeable.

Many recordings claim to be the "original 1913 version," but among
the ones I've heard, only Howard Shelley follows the original
text exactly.  Van Cliburn's thundering performance -- clearly THE
recording to own of this piece -- is close, but contains a few changes.
Ashkenazy makes a few more, and Collard plays something very close
to Horowitz' hybrid while unabashedly claiming to play the 1913
version.  Heh.

As for printed texts, Musica Obscura has reprinted the original
Soviet edition of the 1913 version, and International Music Co. publishes
an edition by John Browning that includes the scores to BOTH versions.
Browning also includes a table showing how "Frankenstein" Horowitz 
pieced together his own creation.

Carl Tait
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
Subject: Re: works for bizarre bottom-heavy ensembles
From: dgold@basso.actrix.gen.nz (Dale Gold)
Date: 29 Sep 92 23:20:50 PST
Organization: New Zealand Symphony Orchestra

Quoted from <1992Sep25.152404.7756@rz-berlin.mpg.de> by gray@rz-berlin.mpg.de:
> Jack Campin asks for works for instruments that make your stomach
> vibrate:
> 
>   Somewhere there
> is a recording of a concert given by the bass section of the Vienna
> Phil. which includes all sorts of unlikely stuff.  

The Berlin Phil bass section recorded an arrangement of the Blue Danube
for 8 (or is it 10?) basses on a disk which featured various sections of
the orchestra a few years back.

Dale
--
- dgold@basso.actrix.gen.nz
- Korokoro, New Zealand
From: sse@wind.bellcore.com (Samuel S Epstein)
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
Subject: Re: Why switch to CD?
Date: 5 Oct 92 21:57:26 GMT
Article-I.D.: walter.1992Oct5.215726.10290
Reply-To: sse@wind.UUCP (Samuel S Epstein)
Organization: Bellcore, Morristown, NJ


A recent issue of Stereophile has an article about data compression
and recording technology. My recollection of the conclusion is:

	The successor of the CD will accommodate a longer timing on
	a smaller disk, but sound quality will suffer. Market forces
	will inevitably move things in this direction.

Maybe you want to wait (how many years?) for the next generation.
From: rms@hpgrla.gr.hp.com (Rick Scherer)
Date: Fri, 2 Oct 1992 16:27:38 GMT
Subject: Re: Fax or phone number of Haverstick&Ballyk
Organization: Hewlett-Packard, Greeley, CO
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical

In rec.music.classical, A8411DAG@vm.univie.ac.at (Werner Friedl) writes:

>I would like to order CDs from the phone order company Haverstick&Ballyk.
>They only have an 800 number on their catalogue, and I am now outside the US.
>Does anybody know their fax or a regular phone number, which can be called
>from outside the US? Their toll free number is (800) 222 6872.

H&B's fax number is (512) 366-4774.

Rick Scherer
From: pfister@sicsun.epfl.ch (Markus PFISTER)
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
Subject: Re: Mahler 1 (Giulini these days)
Date: 4 Oct 92 14:30:39 GMT
Organization: Ecole Polytechnique Federale de Lausanne

>	I don't think there is a better Bruckner 8th than Giulini.  His 9th
> (DG) is also great, except the recording.  Why didn't he record a complete
> cycle, or the 7th at the very least ?
>
> Tong Bo-Ming

Giulini has recorded Bruckner 7th, 8th and 9th with Vienna Phil. (DG)
I find all three very good, the 9th is absolutly terrific.

---

Markus Pfister
pfister@eldp.epfl.ch
From: ray@thyme.sharebase.com (Ray Gebbie)
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
Subject: Re: obscure but good
Date: 30 Sep 92 17:21:16 GMT
Reply-To: ray@thyme.sharebase.com (Ray Gebbie)
Organization: NCR/ShareBase Corporation

I know that this thread has just about ran out, but I wanted to post a follow-
up anyway.  It just took me a while to remember to get the booklet from this
CD when I was home and bring it to work, so that I could write about it.  This
one is very obscure but very good!

Music of Poul Schierbeck, on the 'Point' label, including Haxa, Op. 48 for
soprano and orchestra, Natten, Op. 41 for orchestra, Overture to "Fetes
Galantes", Op. 25 for orchestra, and Den kinesiske Flojte (The Chinese Flute),
Op. 10 for soprano and orchestra. 

This is really neat music!  Schierbeck (1888-1949) was a Danish composer who
was best known for vocal music, but who also left some excellent works with 
orchestra.  I searched out this recording because of a rave review a couple
of years ago in one of the classical review magazines, and I played the first
piece on the disk (Haxa, based on a Swedish poem "The Witches", by Karlfeldt).
I had not heard such sounds before, and I was fascinated.  The composer was a
superb orchestrator, and the use of an organ with the soprano and orchestra
left me spellbound.  It is hard to describe my feelings, but I played this
disk almost nightly for weeks.

Anyway, the booklet does not show the catalog number for the disk, but if you
are interested, it should be found in one of the record catalogs.  As many of
the critics say at the end of their reviews: Highly recommended!
-- 
Ray Gebbie, NCR Corporation, ShareBase Business Unit, Berkeley, California 
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
From: lms@TorreyPinesCA.ncr.com (Max Stern 310-524-6152)
Subject: Re: Confusion in opera booklet.
Organization: NCR (Torrey Pines Development Center)
Disclaimer: This posting does not neccessarily reflect the opinions of NCR.
Date: Fri, 25 Sep 92 18:03:40 GMT

In article <pmdzakd@rpi.edu> beascoea@colossus.cs.rpi.edu (Alex Beascoechea) writes:
>Today I was looking into PHILIPS' Carmen (Norman/Freni..) and while reading
>an interview published in the italian section under "Vera e falsa Spagna nella
>Carmen" I read with surprise that at a certain point the "expert" replied
>"Appunto; e tieni presente che la manzanilla altro no e un infuso di
>camomilla...( a joke about the librettists )". If I undertand correctly he
>is trying to say that the manzanilla at the Lilas Pastia tavern was just
>a camomile te. Is this a joke? it must be because otherwise he is tolally
>wrong. I wonder if this believe is generalized.
>
>Sorry guys I had a bad day (I even looked into the italian section of a libretto)...
>

Perhaps you should have looked in a Spanish dictionary...

In Spanish, camomile tea is called "te' manzanilla".

What is manzanilla in Italian?
-- 

 |\/|  /_\  \/
 |  | /   \ /\                      Max.Stern@TorreyPinesCA.ncr.com
From: my00@gte.com (Michael Yuen)
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
Subject: EMI labels
Date: 5 Oct 92 13:01:49 GMT
Followup-To: rec.music.classical
Organization: GTE Labs

I have noticed that EMI sells records under many different labels. So far,
I've seen them in "EMI",  "EMI Classic", "EMI Digital", "EMI Angle". Can
anyone tell me the differences?. Thanks.

-Mike

-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+
Michael Yuen                   Tel - (617)466-2919
GTE Labs                          Internet - my00@gte.com
40 Sylvan Road                 FAX - (617)466-2130
Waltham, MA 02254
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
From: spg@Xenon.Stanford.EDU (Stephen P. Guthrie)
Subject: Penguin Guide
Originator: spg@Xenon.Stanford.EDU
Organization: Computer Science Department, Stanford University.
Date: Mon, 28 Sep 1992 13:58:29 GMT

Hello,
I just moved to Germany (although still posting from my old account in the U.S.)
and was wondering how I could get a copy of the new Penguin Guide. I believe
that this is available in England, but it hadn't hit the stores in the U.S
when I was there. Is it possible to buy this within Germany (I'm in the
Stuttgart area) or if not does anyone have an address in the U.K. to order
it from and how much would that cost?
  Thanks muchly,
  Stephen
From: music@moravian.edu (Steve Heller)
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
Subject: Re: music scores cost a fortune!!!
Date: 2 Oct 92 00:46:51 GMT

In <BvGH8L.J2D@dcs.glasgow.ac.uk> jack@dcs.glasgow.ac.uk (Jack Campin) writes:

>(What *is* the copyright status of stuff published under the Nazis, anyway?
>Their patents seemed to lose all force after the war, if the number of Leica
>copies made around the world is any indication - something like 200 makers
>tried this in the 40s and 50s).

Good question!

>On the other hand, I find it hard to imagine how anyone manages to finance
>publishing contemporary music at all.  How many copies of something by a
>youngish and only moderately widely known composer (James Macmillan, say)
>will get sold, and who to?  It's not like the Journal of Obscure Diseases
>of Unmentionable Squidgy Bits, where there's a captive market of Departments
>of Clinical Squidgology that just *have* to take it.  But Macmillan does have
>a publisher nevertheless.

This is where the composer with a PC and good score-writing software
is becoming more prominent. If you can supply a decent copy done with
Finale (or equivalent) to a small publisher you have a better chance
than you did 20 years ago trying to get your stuff type-set, and it's
a lot more useable than some of the hand-copied scores published by
Schirmer (and others) prior to the "microage". I'd almost suggest that
it is an imperative to learn and use such tools to be a self-promoting
composer these days, and fortunately, at this school we do offer
students these tools that they may grow with them.

After looking at the score to Sorabji's Opus Clavicembalisticum, which
must have been a monumental undertaking to typeset, I wonder how he
ever got it published (or IF he would have got it published if he
didn't have the money to do it).
-- 
*-------------------------------------------------------------------------*
#   export meaning_of_life=$(eval 'grep -i truth mind_of_god | sort -u')  #
# Work: music@moravian.edu  <#!AMIGA!#>  Home: moravian.edu!vortex!lothar #
*-------------------------------------------------------------------------*
From: jdooley@maemaster.eng.uci.edu (John R. Dooley)
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
Subject: Re: haydn symphony recommendations
Date: 2 Oct 92 16:09:20 GMT
Article-I.D.: news.2ACC7430.27658
Organization: University of California, Irvine

Neil E. Midkiff (midkiff@btr.com) writes about Haydn and Mozart:
>
>I remember reading that Mozart and Haydn knew each other's string quartets
>well, and each learned from the other's experiments and innovations.  Do we
>know whether Haydn was able to hear performances of, or had access to 
>scores of, the Mozart symphonies?
>
>Still, it would be interesting to know whether some of the same cross-
>pollination effect was at work in the symphonic field between these
>two giants.
>

Ah, Haydn and Mozart...
The greatest case of musical synergism  among
two giants until ... McCartney  and

	                 Davis 


John D.
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
From: ashley@oasis.gtefsd.com (Bob Ashley)
Subject: Re: melody in Rachmaninoff's 2nd Symphony
Reply-To: ashley@oasis.gtefsd.com
Organization: GTE Federal Systems Division
Date: Sat, 3 Oct 1992 00:09:04 GMT

In article 6073@morrow.stanford.edu, AH.PBL@forsythe.stanford.edu (Mark) writes:
>In article <BvGnLI.MrK@cdsmn.mn.org>,
>wells@cdsmn.mn.org (Rich Wells) writes:
>>The third movement of Rachmaninoff's Symphony #2 begins with a
>>melody that I know has been used by some pop/country tune.
>>
>  The title of the song is "All By Myself".  I don't know
>who wrote/sang it, though.  Eric something...?
>
>  "All by myself, I don't wanna be...all by myself...
>blah, blah, blah..."
>
>-- Mark
>

I believe it was Eric Carmen ... 


Bob - I don't believe it was Clapton

------------------------------------------------------------------------
Bob Ashley                        Internet:  Bob.Ashley@oasis.gtefsd.com

Software Engineer, (703)-818-4656  | Winter Bowling Leagues 1992-1993
   GTE Federal Systems Division    |    GTE FSD Mixed Secretary: Thu 17:45
   15000 Conference Center Drive   |    Thursday Mixups:         Thu 20:30
   Chantilly, VA   22021-3808      |    NFL Mixed Secretary:     Mon 21:00
From: lms@TorreyPinesCA.ncr.com (Max Stern 310-524-6152)
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
Subject: Re: Falstaff Returns to the Met
Date: 1 Oct 92 18:54:30 GMT
Organization: NCR (Torrey Pines Development Center)
Disclaimer: This posting does not neccessarily reflect the opinions of NCR.

In article <92270.101732KSSHC@CUNYVM.BITNET> Ken Sherrill <KSSHC@CUNYVM.BITNET> writes:
>The Met's revival of Falstaff last night was a delight...
>
>[remainder of review deleted]

Have you seen Giulini's Falstaff from several (10 or more) years ago?
(I think it's available on video -- was certainly on TV).  Can you
compare and contrast?

I saw Giulini's production at the Los Angeles Music Center and loved
it.  Many critics have called it a crowning achievement of Giulini's
career and a benchmark Falstaff.


-- 

 |\/|  /_\  \/
 |  | /   \ /\                      Max.Stern@TorreyPinesCA.ncr.com
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
From: dbarker@spang.Camosun.BC.CA (Deryk Barker)
Subject: Re: Mahler 9 (was Re:Mahler 1)
Organization: Camosun College, Victoria B.C, Canada
Date: Tue, 6 Oct 1992 17:39:36 GMT

In article <1992Oct6.094108.6316@rkna50.riken.go.jp> shoichi@rkna50.riken.go.jp (Shoichi Kubodera) writes:
>In article <459QBRRW@cc.swarthmore.edu> rbrooks1@cc.swarthmore.edu (Rob Brooks) writes:
>>In article <1992Oct2.022221.5496@cucs5.cs.cuhk.hk>,
>>bmtong@cucs11.cs.cuhk.hk (Tong Bo-Ming) writes:
>>
>>> 	I would also like to hear about all the favourite recordings of
>>> Mahler's 9th and Song of the Earth.  Any suggestions ?
>>>
>>I recently bought Barbirolli's version of the ninth and it is quite good
>>(the finale is magical).  The best I've heard is without a doubt
>>Haitink/Concertge-
>>bow from his 70's cycle and Karajan's is well worth looking into.  As far
>>as "Das Liede" goes the performance on EMI with Klemperer/Ludwig/Wunderlich
>>has this kind of effect on you: A while ago my dad was driving home when
>>this recording came on the radio and he stopped by the side of the road to
>>hear the whole thing.  It's awesome.
>
>I would vote for Karajan's live performance (DG) for the best 9th ever
>officially recorded.

I must register a nay on this. I think his earlier, analogue,
recording was superior. I rushed out and bought the CD version, but
frankly feel that its merits don't stand up to repeated hearings.

>THE best 9th I've ever heard is also Karajan's live at the 100-year
>anniversary concert of the Berlin Philharmonic in 1979 (?). Our
>radio station broadcast that. Oh, there is no question, that is the
>best.

Can't comment as I didn't hear it.

>Recent Bernstein's 9th with Berlin Philharmonic is also awesome. There is 
>a rumor saying;  Lenny made such extraordinary performance with Berlin
>while Karajan was still there. That is the reason Karajan re-recorded the
>9th with Berlin at live. 

I think this is wrong. Bernstein's dates from 1979, I though both the
Karajan's were from the 1980s. Apparently Lenny and the BPO did not
hit it off at all, which is why this was the only time he conducted
them.

Deryk Barker, Computer Science Dept., Camosun College, Victoria B.C.