HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: UFTRT@NERVM.BITNET (Tim Tumlin)
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.psycgrad
Subject: Re: Prof needs Proof
Date: 16 Oct 92 17:49:39 GMT
              <PSYCGRAD@UOTTAWA.BITNET>
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU

Mr. Smith,
In case you're on Psycgrad:
I think you would find a PsycLit machine valuable in starting your research.
Tim
From: KMORGAN@WHEATNMA.BITNET
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.psycgrad
Subject: Re: Cognitive & Brain Functioning
Date: 16 Oct 92 22:48:00 GMT
              <PSYCGRAD@UOTTAWA.BITNET>
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU
X-Envelope-to: PSYCGRAD@UOTTAWA.BITNET
X-VMS-To: IN%"PSYCGRAD@UOTTAWA.BITNET"

Jesse--

        It's a darn big elephant we're working on
out there (the mind and behavior) and I think it
helps us "blind folk" to have as many colleagues as
possible feeling their part of the elephant and
reporting their ideas to us all.  The whole picture
is three-dimentional--thus it will take a multiple
of levels of perspective to "get it right."
--Kathy Morgan
kmorgan@wheatnma.bitnet
From: RSIMPSO3@UA1VM.BITNET (Royce Simpson)
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.psycgrad
Subject: Re: INTRODUCTION
Date: 14 Oct 92 17:27:14 GMT
              <PSYCGRAD@UOTTAWA.BITNET>
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU
              13 Oct 1992 17:58:44 -0400 from <SO92006@GSVMS2.CC.GASOU.EDU>

Vann Scott
What exactly is social cognition?  I'm just an ole run of the mill cognitive
psychologist and I was just wondering what the similarities/differences were.

Royce Simpson
University of Alabama
rsimpso3@ua1vm
Organization: Queen's University at Kingston
Date: Wed, 7 Oct 1992 16:45:03 EDT
From: Solace <SETOM@QUCDN.QueensU.CA>
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.psycgrad
Subject: Re: criminal psych programs

Not to be contrary, but there is a strong forensic specialization within the
Clinical Psychology program at Queen's.  In particular, there is ongoing
research on witness testimony, sex offenders, management of violent offenders,
prediction of recidivism, and personality factors including psychopathy.

We also have the added bonus of having five federal penitentiaries within
easy commuting distance of Kingston.  :)
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.psycgrad
Date:         Sun, 11 Oct 1992 05:32:55 EST
              <PSYCGRAD@UOTTAWA.BITNET>
From:         "(Remo Ostini)" <rxo868@CSCGPO.ANU.EDU.AU>
Subject:      relative effectiveness, behaviorism, and personality

>When the therapist looks for underlying causes of symptoms which
>become manifested in various forms, the medical model is kicking in.
>Look at the language, "...what's eating them."  This almost sounds
>organic.  I know.  It is just a metaphor.  However, it is the
>metaphor of the virus or the parasite that stems from the medical
>model.  This is not bad, I think.  The metaphor is alive in this

Metaphor not withstanding, I would have to disagree with you that postulating
underlying causes implies the medical model.  There are other structural or
functional models that involve underlying causes.

I also take your point about different therapies being good in different
situations.  That is actually part of what I was referring to when I mentioned
my impression of behaviour therapy as being limited.  But I would suggest
that limitations are not just in the eye of the beholder, just as I would
contend that personality is more than just behaviour patterns (habits).
There are aspects of what it is to be human that transcend the labels we put
on them.  One of those aspects is that there is more to a person than meets
the eye (to use another poor metapho!).  I am firmly of the conviction that
there is a richness and texture to human existance which is simply not
done justice by terms such as 'habit patterns', and I don't even like the
psychodynamic approach, so it can't be because I'm Freudian :-)!



Remo Ostini 		       *  rxo868@huxley.anu.edu.au
NCEPH, ANU		       *  "Morality is a vast and inescapable
GPO Box 4, 		       *  conspiracy in which we all participate."
Canberra  ACT 2601, Australia  *  				- Norma Haan
From: HESSJX@UNCG.BITNET
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.psycgrad
Subject: Re: INDIVIDUAL COMPONENTS
Date: 15 Oct 92 21:18:37 GMT
              <PSYCGRAD@UOTTAWA.BITNET>
Organization: University of NC at Greensboro
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU
X-Envelope-to: PSYCGRAD@UOTTAWA.BITNET
X-VMS-To: IN%"PSYCGRAD@UOTTAWA.BITNET"
MIME-version: 1.0
Content-type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII
Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT

Eric,
I missed the original post, I apologize, what are you measuring, where, and what
   do you want to find out.  There are other ways of making direct infusion of
small quantities of drugs that are much less destructive than cannulae.  As
for systemic effects, they can be pretty profound.  Let me know what you
are doing.  I just saw the post from Jason Becker and am left hanging.
Jennifer
From: URSINOA@CWU.BITNET
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.psycgrad
Subject: (no subject given)
Date: 15 Oct 92 23:04:00 GMT
              <PSYCGRAD@UOTTAWA.BITNET>
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU
X-Envelope-to: PSYCGRAD@UOTTAWA.BITNET
X-VMS-To: IN%"PSYCGRAD@UOTTAWA"

HELLO:

My name is Angela Ursino and I recently subscribed to the list.  As you can
tell I have already messed up on the subject line !!!  In any case, this is an
introduction.  I am in the second year of a masters in experimental psychology
at Central Washington University in Ellensburg.  My primary interests are
industrial/organizational psychology, small group behavior, leadership and
gender.  I plan to consult in organizations for a couple of years following
this program and then pursue a PhD.  I look forward to some good discussion and
sharing of ideas.  By the way, the notion of repeating some of the classes I've
had at Central in a PhD program makes me cringe!! I think this will be my two
cents worth for now.

Until later,
Angela
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.psycgrad
Date:         Wed, 7 Oct 1992 12:02:16 EDT
              <PSYCGRAD@UOTTAWA.BITNET>
From:         "Gerri Oppedisano (8-863-7225)" <gerri@WATSON.IBM.COM>
Subject:      MP or behavior patterns

Thanks, Matthew.. That was very clear and interesting. I agree that focusing
on the end result is desirable, however, I think you can focus on the end
result in bringing together separate personalities into one. It didn't occur
to me though that the clear personality constructs could be difficult to
overcome. That's an interesting point.

gerri
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.psycgrad
Date:         Wed, 14 Oct 1992 00:49:21 EDT
              <PSYCGRAD@UOTTAWA.BITNET>
From:         Monika Trzcinska <054470@UOTTAWA.BITNET>
Subject: Re: answer to "Who are you?"

Jennifer,
I think you "hit the nail on the head" about psychology and neuroscience!
At times I feel that what I do doesn't really belong to psychology...
I feel more comfortable, especially at conferences, talking to people in
various domains of neuroscience than I do talking to my fellow "clinicians"
here at U of O (with a wonderful exception of my husband: Matthew Simpson,
but that is a story in itself...:-)).
I honestly believe that we are witnessing some kind of a "split" that
biology experienced much earlier in the history of science...
There are more and more depratments being created that are no longer
called "psychology- with that "funky" physiological twist", but "behavioural
neuroscience"...Here at U of O we are trying very hard to establish just
such a department.
To be honest, I feel much more like a neuroscientist than like a psychologist.


                                 _
    ) (    Monika Trzcinska    _- o   ) (   054470@ACADVM1.UOTTAWA.CA
   )   (----------------------- o o  )   (----------------------------
    ) (                        -_ o   ) (
                                 -
 "Before we can have applied science, we must have a science to apply"

                                                              D.O.Hebb
From: lindberg@PSYCH.SSCNET.UCLA.EDU
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.psycgrad
Subject: What it takes to be a professor in the
Date: 17 Oct 92 00:47:00 GMT
              <PSYCGRAD@UOTTAWA.BITNET>
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU
Encoding: 11 TEXT
X-Mailer: Microsoft Mail V3.0 (beta-1)


     Hi all,
     This is about the uphill road leading to full professorship.
     I know that the title of full professor is not only a question of time
on the job, but that quality and quantity of work (and grant$ obtained, and
political issues, of course) are the key factors.  I have also heard that not
granting full professorship to someone that has been tenured for a long time
is one way departments sometimes use get around the tacit rule of not firing
professors they don't want (the assumption being that the tenured individual
will rather quit and go somewhere where he/she will be more appreciated).
     Is this true?
From: gerri@WATSON.IBM.COM (Gerri Oppedisano (8-863-7225))
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.psycgrad
Subject: (no subject given)
Date: 16 Oct 92 15:51:56 GMT
              <PSYCGRAD@UOTTAWA.BITNET>
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU

> I just met for a discussion with
> one of our cognitive faculty last night who said that there is no reason
> psychology--cognitive Psy, in particular should care about neuroscience.  He
> says there is no reason he should even care about the underlying mechanisms
> of memory (NEURAL mechanisms)  and says that when I go to look for a job I
> will not be able to justify why my work is important.

Well, you know, professors are people too, and therefore there are just
as many professors who can be wrong (i.e. jerks), than there are pee-on
students.. Bascially, Jennifer, I would say not to take what this faculty
member said to heart. It is not only untrue in my opinion, but sounds
utterly rediculous. I wonder if it was even a serious comment.

> Anyway, I am about to
> conclude that to grow and be successful maybe we need to move away from this
> interdisciplinary approach and make neuroscience in it's own right--even at
> the undergraduate level.  What do you think?
> Jennifer

I'm all for interdisciplinary work for a fuller picture. The drawback
definitely is that it's more difficult and more time consuming. However,
that doesn't mean neuroscience shouldn't be more focused on at the
undergraduate level.. I think that would be a good idea.

My 2 cents..
gerri
From: KMORGAN@WHEATNMA.BITNET
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.psycgrad
Subject: ATTEN: MARK, re APS Employment Bulletin Query
Date: 15 Oct 92 15:29:00 GMT
              <PSYCGRAD@UOTTAWA.BITNET>
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU
X-Envelope-to: PSYCGRAD@UOTTAWA.BITNET
X-VMS-To: IN%"PSYCGRAD@UOTTAWA.BITNET"

My apologies to the net, but I could think of no other
way to do this.

Will the person who contacted me  (Mark??) about the
APS Employment Bulletin please contact me again?  I
have more information for you, but I have lost your
address.

Thanks!

--Kathy Morgan
kmorgan@wheatnma.bitnet
From: TBN@UTXVM.CC.UTEXAS.EDU
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.psycgrad
Subject: multiple regression texts
Date: 9 Oct 92 17:35:31 GMT
              <PSYCGRAD@UOTTAWA.BITNET>
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU

I higly recommend _Applied Multivariate Statistics for the Social Sciences_
by James Stevens. Not only is it clearly written and have a nice balance
between theory and application, it also has a lot of clear examples and,
perhaps best of all, examples of analyses *and* interpretation of SAS and
SPSS outputs (as well as the command code used to produce said analyses).

He's just come out with a second edition, too.

1992, Lawrence Erlbaum Publishers
From: PSYGRDDEC@ORION.DEPAUL.EDU (CASE ELIZABETH)
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.psycgrad
Subject: social cog
Date: 14 Oct 92 22:25:00 GMT
              <PSYCGRAD@UOTTAWA.BITNET>
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU

Royce,

We recently had a long discussion on what is social cognition, though
it was more focused on how it differs from social psychology.  You can
go to the archives if you want to see all of that discussion.

Being a social cog person, I'll briefly give you my definition.

It's how people think about themselves and others in a social context.
(yes, i know the definition has problems.)  As I see it, social cog takes
the "in social context" from social psychology, and its focus on process
from cognitive psychology.

Elizabeth in Chicago
psygrddec.orion.depaul.edu

p.s.  We've been having some problems with internet, but i think they're
fixed now.  In case the mail never made it to the list, I am offering my
services to any and all who needed information about Chicago.  Just send
me personal mail, and I'll be glad to help.
From: PS201A01@CANISIUS.BITNET
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.psycgrad
Subject: Disenfranchised Grief
Date: 7 Oct 92 17:01:00 GMT
              <PSYCGRAD@UOTTAWA.BITNET>
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU
X-Envelope-to: psycgrad@uottawa
X-VMS-To: IN%"psycgrad@uottawa"

Hello!

I have recently become interested in the concept of disenfranchised grief.
   I was wondering if anyone is familiar with the term and has some information
they could share.

Thanks - Kate Barry
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU
X-Acknowledge-To: <HOPE@UKANVM>
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.psycgrad
Date:         Thu, 15 Oct 1992 22:29:17 CDT
              <PSYCGRAD@UOTTAWA.BITNET>
From:         Mike Babyak <HOPE@UKANVM.BITNET>
Subject:      Re: to neuropsycgradders
              15 Oct 1992 17:13:00 CDT from <B057RAYL@UTARLG.UTA.EDU>

Ray, I liked your car analogy with one exception, don't forget those
who are interested in what the car means :-)

MIKE BABYAK UNIVERSITY OF KANSAS         *THERE'S NO PLACE LIKE HOME*
HOPE@UKANVM
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.psycgrad
Date:         Tue, 13 Oct 1992 09:55:45 EDT
              <PSYCGRAD@UOTTAWA.BITNET>
From:         "Gerri Oppedisano (8-863-7225)" <gerri@WATSON.IBM.COM>
Subject:      Who are you? (Psychology and/or Physiology)

> I am now looking at competition and activity-
> dependency in neocortical development (prenatal and perinatal).  I am interes
> tedin behaviour, but at a very molecular level.  Is this psychology?  Many of
> my fellow grad students and professors in this dept. don't seem to think so.
> How do the rest of you (both Physio and Non-Physio) feel?  Do you (physio
> people) share a similar experience?
> Jennifer at UNC-Greensboro

As a Non-Physio, I would say it's a tough call. In the areas of
psych which are a combination of psychology and some other field
(biology for example) there are going to be people whose
specialty will land somewhere closer to the "other field", but
I think it's important (or at least, personally, I am glad) that
these people (like you, Jennifer) are still in psychology because
this will hopefully broaden the scope of psychology rather than narrow
it. I think others in psychology who don't directly research physiology
need the results of your work - people studying visual cognition, perception
and/or cognitive development, for instance - and it makes sense for these
areas of research to be in the same field since they all deal with explaining
behavior and development and would hopefully be combined anyway for a fuller
picture. You might ask then why two separate fields couldn't simply work
together to achieve this goal, and I don't claim to know the answer to this
but perhaps it's political. If you are in the psychology dept, you might
work more readily with psychologists interested in your work than you might
if you weren't in the psychology dept..

Does this make sense to you?

One thing I'm wondering is is it only the neuropsych people who are tired
of the discussions here or are most others tired of them also? I find in
most network newgroups, regardless of the field or particular subject
matter, 80% of the articles are "filler" and 20% are topics you really find
interesting.

gerri
From: jmw1@ST-ANDREWS.AC.UK ((Julie Marie Williams))
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.psycgrad
Subject: RE: From Master's to PhD's
Date: 14 Oct 92 17:48:13 GMT
              <PSYCGRAD@UOTTAWA.BITNET>
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU
Via:        UK.AC.ST-AND; 14 OCT 92 18:48:49 BST

Elizabeth,

***********************CONGRATULATIONS********************************

Was it all worth it, then?
Never mind, I'm sure it was character building!
Well done!

Julie
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU
X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.3 PL11s]
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.psycgrad
Date:         Wed, 14 Oct 1992 10:33:29 MDT
              <PSYCGRAD@UOTTAWA.BITNET>
From:         jdbecker@ACS.UCALGARY.CA
Subject:      Re: K.I. Synder query

Kathryn, Kimron Shapiro at the U of Calgary, Calgary, Alberta,
Canada is big time interested in visual attention and cognition.
Maybe check out some of his work. The U of C is supposed to have
some of the best funding in Canada.

And if you get tired of boxology the U of C has a great
Behavioral Neuroscience program of which Dr. Cooper (a student of
the late great D.O. Hebb) is the vision guy.

Jason Becker (Behavioral Neuroscience Research Group, U of Calgary)
From: GALLOGLY@CWU.BITNET
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.psycgrad
Subject: RE: neuropsycgradders
Date: 16 Oct 92 16:27:00 GMT
              <PSYCGRAD@UOTTAWA.BITNET>
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU
Original_To:  BITNET%"PSYCGRAD@UOTTAWA.BITNET"

>The real question
>I find here is, what is the role of the person behind the wheel?
>
>Do we classify this person's influence on the car as merely environmental
>influences?  What do we say of the person's intentions?

No, the real question is, "Is there really a person behind the wheel?"  Or is
the driver just a convenient construct that has been invented to help explain
the functioning of the car?  We should strive for explanations of car behavior
that do not rely on hypothetical "drivers" or motivational constructs such as
"transportation" and "travel".

Don
GALLOGLY@CWU.bitnet
From: IRENES@UNC.BITNET (Kathryn Irene Snyder)
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.psycgrad
Subject: Re: Psychonomics and JDM in St. Louis
Date: 15 Oct 92 18:00:00 GMT
              <PSYCGRAD@UOTTAWA.BITNET>
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU

Yes, I am going to Psychonomics and JDM. Several of us are getting tog
ether at Psychonomics. THe current plan is to meet at the Spaghetti
Factory Thursday night for dinner. We are also looking for someone else
to share a room for JDM or the whole weekend. We have  a room athe
Marriot across the street, at $49 anight. Email me directly if you'd
like to know more...I seem to be the PSycgrad coordinator for this
shebang,
Irene
irenes@unc.bitnet
From: KMORGAN@WHEATNMA.BITNET
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.psycgrad
Subject: Re: A List of Psychology-Related Lists
Date: 14 Oct 92 22:18:00 GMT
              <PSYCGRAD@UOTTAWA.BITNET>
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU
X-Envelope-to: PSYCGRAD@UOTTAWA.BITNET
X-VMS-To: IN%"PSYCGRAD@UOTTAWA.BITNET"

Matthew,

        My thanks for a truly useful and wonderful list--
THANK YOU, THANK YOU, THANK YOU!!!! :-)
        --Kathy Morgan
        kmorgan@wheatnma.bitnet
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU
Subject: (no subject given)
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.psycgrad
Date:         Wed, 7 Oct 1992 09:33:11 EDT
              <PSYCGRAD@UOTTAWA.BITNET>
From:         "Gerri Oppedisano (8-863-7225)" <gerri@WATSON.IBM.COM>

> Conceptually, I see behavior patterns as much more malleable.
> Perhaps describing these patterns as "potentials for experiencing"
> would offer a more fluid and changeable client.  I consider
> these possibilities because I place my values on utility alone.
> It is much more useful for me to change behavior patterns than it
> is for me to get rid of disorders.
>
O======================================================================O
 | _  l  _  * Matthew Simpson          * BITNET:                      |
 |  \_l_/   * School of Psychology     * 054340@uottawa.bitnet        |
 |    l     * 145 Jean Jacques Lussier * INTERNET:                    |
 |    l     * Ottawa, Ontario K1N 8P5  * 054340@acadvm1.uottawa.ca    |
O======================================================================O

What is the difference between looking at it as a behavioural patterns
and looking at it as different personalities?? Wouldn't the person in
either case be, shall we say, Truly Unique anyway? If one says Multiple
Personalities, without the word Disorder, would that be satisfying to
you? Or how about Multiple Personality Syndrome? I think that Mulitple
Personality brings to mind a pretty clear image of what's going on,
whereas Changing Behavioral Pattern is more vague.. Why be vague? What
is the real difference? ...As you can see, I'm confused and don't quite
get your point, Matthew.. I follow your leading questions argument but
if the patient falls into that, what does it mean? When the therapist
asks if "the little boy" has a name, does the client provide a name? If
so, why does the client provide a name? What does that mean? If the
client is willing to go along with "the little boy who has a name" to
get some handle on the change in behavior, why is this not a good
approach?

Thanks for any more insight..
gerri@watson.ibm.com
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.psycgrad
Date:         Sat, 10 Oct 1992 01:57:20 PDT
              <PSYCGRAD@UOTTAWA.BITNET>
From:         "(Andres Consoli)" <6500EDU@UCSBUXA.BITNET>
Subject: Re: functional "madness"

Cathy in Exeter, UK. in a recent post you wrote "I... think that Laing was
'slightly mad' himself (!)"
Could you say more about your statement/impression??
Thanks,

Andres Consoli
UCSB-USA
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU
Subject: (no subject given)
From: joppa@PSYCH.PURDUE.EDU ((Margaret Joppa))
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.psycgrad
Subject: Re: Us "Phsyiological" Folk
Date: 13 Oct 92 16:37:24 GMT
              <PSYCGRAD@UOTTAWA.BITNET>
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU

Yippee!  I am releived to know I am not alone in my interest in psychobiology.
I am doing research on estrogen's effects on the brain and behavior of female
hamsters.  Yes, hamsters. I would like to solicit information on premenstrual
syndrome and hormones, generally.  It would be interesting to create an animal
model for it. In fact, hamsters are highly aggressive pre-estrous (toward both
females and males), but with the addition of estrogen and progesterone they
allow the male to mate but will still attack a female.  Yes, it's stretching to
suggest hamsters suffer PMS.  But let me know if anyone knows if indeed PMS is
a real phenomenon in humans.
Margaret
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU
X-Envelope-to: psycgrad@UOTTAWA.BITNET
X-VMS-To: IN%"psycgrad@uottawa.bitnet"
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.psycgrad
Date:         Fri, 16 Oct 1992 09:21:00 CDT
              <PSYCGRAD@UOTTAWA.BITNET>
From:         B057RAYL@UTARLG.UTA.EDU
Subject: RE: neuropsycgradders

The meaning of cars?  Individual car differences!?!  This is great.  One
of the really great things about psychology in genral and PSYCGRAD in
particular is the diversity we have in viewing behavior.  There is still
much to learn about this most complex of all phenomena.  Even as a
neuroscientist, I have a hard time believing that someday "all" behavior
will be reduced to neurophysiology.  Somehow it seems that you would lose
sight of all of the higher order concepts of behavior that make psychology
important in the first place.

Ray Lopez -- University of Texas at Arlington --  B057RAYL@UTARLG.UTA.EDU

"HIRE ME!!" (grovel.. drool.. beg..) "HIRE ME!" (snivel.. kiss ass.. grovel)
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU