HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: hamid@engrg.uwo.ca (Mr. Hamid Mir)
Subject: Touring Kayak
Organization: DA&MRL, Engineering, UWO, London Ont. CA
Distribution: na
Date: Tue, 15 Dec 1992 08:45:56 GMT

I am looking at buying a large 16.5 ft two man touring kayak. I got some information about a company called Phoenix Products from Kentuck. They make a large
selection of small fiberglass/Kevlar boats and kayaks. The problem is that 
they do most of their business mail order. I like the look of the boats they 
make but would like to here from some people who would know more about them.
The large kayak I am looking at is called the Vagabond. They make some smaller
boats that might be better known such as the Poke Boat.

PS. Phoenix Products is from Kentucky 

Hamid
Newsgroups: rec.boats.paddle
From: storm@geog.utah.edu (John Storm)
Subject: Winter Play Spots
Organization: DIGIT Lab
Date: Thu, 17 Dec 92 05:20:52 GMT

O.K.  I've been watching it snow now for ~2 weeks off and on, and all this
precipitation has got me anxious to get back in my boat.  1 month off is too
long.  Does anyone out there know of any good play spots with flow.
Moderately cold air temp. is not a problem, but ice is!  I can't drive down
to South America (too far), but a 1 day drive from Salt Lake City would
be doable.  I'm starting to think about Ocean yak surfing in Baja, (at least
its something) so any recommendations for down there would also be welcome.

Don't worry - I'll try not to rip my DrySuit :-)

John Storm
SLC UT
storm@geog.utah.edu
Newsgroups: rec.boats.paddle
From: tmenten@boi.hp.com (Tom Menten)
Subject: Re: Legs falling asleep while 'yaking
Date: Wed, 16 Dec 1992 15:47:11 GMT
Organization: Hewlett-Packard / Boise, Idaho
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1.4 PL6]

Kristian Simsarian (kristian@cs.uchicago.edu) wrote:
: 
: 	The only major complaint I have had about the comfort of
: kayaking is that my legs always "fall asleep".  I am wondering if

  My feet have slept through some wonderful trips, but not my legs.  I 
noticed recently that a passenger with a cardboard splint under her leg 
had her leg go to sleep in the car.  The cardboard was pinching her leg
(my car seats are not spacious.)

From this I conclude that the blood supply must be underneath (not on 
top) the leg.  Maybe someone knowledgeable can check this.

Any way, that suggests to me that the seat is the culprit; if the seat fits
funny (perhaps it's tilted up at the wrong place for you) maybe it's doing
like the cardboard.  You could try reshaping the seat with foam, so your
butt is higher, and the legs don't get squeezed.   
Newsgroups: rec.boats.paddle
From: morgan@nolichucky.rtp.dg.com (Keith Morgan)
Subject: Re: Giardia 
Date: Thu, 17 Dec 92 14:08:42 GMT
Distribution: world 
Organization: Data General Corporation, Research Triangle Park, NC

Giardia, or "Beaver Fever" is a fairly common ailment.  My physician
tells me that he has treated a # of cases caused by contaminated
well water, so it's not a problem confined to hikers that drink
from crystal clear mtn. streams.  I think you have to ingest a
fair sized population of the lil' critters to get the trots, though.
I've canoed lots of water known to carry giardia & had more than
my share splashed in, on, and around me but have never fallen prey
to the vile disease.  Now, a good thrashing in a hole, resulting in
good sized gulps of water being swallowed might be a different
story...

-- 
Keith Morgan                     
Data General                  ------------------------
Research Triangle Park, NC    credo quia absurdium est
(919)248-6078                 ------------------------
morgan@dg-rtp.dg.com
From: kristian@cs.uchicago.edu (Kristian Simsarian)
Newsgroups: rec.boats.paddle
Subject: Legs falling asleep while 'yaking
Date: 15 Dec 92 23:29:23 GMT
Organization: Department of Computer Science, University of Chicago


	The only major complaint I have had about the comfort of
kayaking is that my legs always "fall asleep".  I am wondering if
everyone has this problem and if not, if there is something I am doing
wrong when sizing up my boat.  I haven't had my own boat for a long
time (even when I did it was a permanent loaner). So when I get a boat
I usually have to reset the foot-pegs, etc.

	As I understand it your knees are supposed to be tight up
against the deck pads, while your feet are on the pegs.  I have
wondered if maybe I have made it too tight a fit, but still I haven't
been able to avoid the falling asleep phenomena.  My limited medical
knowledge leads me to conclude that the "falling asleep" effect is
caused by a lack of blood circulation in the legs.  My intuitive take
on this is to say that the lack of circulation is caused by the
relative inactivity of the legs while kayaking.

	I would like to know others experiences.  It can be rather
dangerous if you need to wet exit and your legs seem to be inoperable.
It is also annoying when you step out of the boat and fall down because
your legs aren't reacting to your commands.

	Every boat I have used has caused this, these include: Dancer,
Mirage, MountainBat (UK boat), RiverRunner (now defunct I think), 
and a custom Fiberglass slalom boat.


Thanks for any input,
Kristian




-- 
Kristian T. Simsarian			University of Chicago AI Laboratory
email: kristian@cs.uchicago.edu		CS Dept. Chicago, IL 60637
From: brianj@bedrock.cs.umd.edu (Brian Johnson)
Newsgroups: rec.boats.paddle
Subject: Re: WCC
Date: 14 Dec 92 00:35:11 GMT
Organization: Computer Science, Univ. of MD, College Park, MD 20742
In-reply-to: burns@oread.cc.ukans.edu's message of 13 Dec 92 20:34:59 GMT


Washington D.C. Area Whitewater Clubs:

Canoe Cruisers Association
	Trip Line:	(301) 656-2586
	Membership:	(301) 424-4413
	The CCA is a large (~2000) member organization that does
	everything from family canoeing to the 14th annual New 
	Year's Day Surfing Party.

Blue Ridge Voyageurs
	Trip Line:	(703) 425-7645
	Membership:	Listen to trip line
	The Blue Ridge Voyageurs is more of a Balls to the Walls Half
	the Paddle Twice the Man sort of group.  They're an excellent
	group and much smaller than the CCA.

Baltimore Canoe Club
	I don't belong to this one but it is also "local".

Support your local paddling groups - join 'em ALL!!!  Really, it can't
hurt and many groups support conservation and other paddling interests
(CCA is an olympic breeding ground).

--
Brian Johnson                                       Computer Science Department
brianj@cs.umd.edu                                        University of Maryland
(301) 405-2725                                           College Park, Md 20742

  ...there are no strangers in this world, only friends who have never met...
Newsgroups: rec.boats.paddle
From: mustang@hardy.u.washington.edu (Brian Watson)
Subject: Feet falling asleep
Reply-To: mustang@u.washington.edu
Organization: University of Washington, Seattle
Distribution: usa
Date: Wed, 16 Dec 1992 10:19:57 GMT

   I have the same problem about my feet falling asleep.  I currently
paddle the Perception Reflex and that small boat makes a tight fit for my
big feet.  So, I took out the foam wall in the bow of the boat and shaved
down some of the foam where my feet are.  That helped, somewhat.  Every
chance I get, I slip my feet around the foot braces and try to stretch my
legs out and wiggle my toes a little.
   I also paddled the Pyrahna Mountain Bat and I must say, besides being a
fun boat to paddle, it is extremely comfortable, with the bulkhead foot
brace versus the tiny footpegs Perception uses.  My feet don't fall asleep
nearly as much as they would in a Perception boat.
   If you think a Dancer is bad, you should try kneeling on your ankles in
a Perception Slasher for about an hour.  You ain't felt pain until you've
done that!

				Well anyways, happy paddling!


				Brian Watson


Newsgroups: rec.boats.paddle
From: bblohm@boi.hp.com (Bill Blohm)
Subject: Re: pogies vs gloves
Date: Fri, 11 Dec 1992 19:18:18 GMT
Organization: Hewlett-Packard / Boise, Idaho
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1.4 PL6]

The West System was originally aimed at pro builders, and so is more concent-
rated.   I think.  I know they are supposedly neither harder or easier to use,
are great quality, and have heard they have excellent help for people with
questions.  They also offer a trial kit so you can test using their stuff.  It
comes with what I have heard is a great manual and I think you get the price
of the trial kit back off your order when you order for your project.  I would
suggest you call them and ask them about this.  

I am planning on using their materials with a boat I am going to start this
spring.

Bill Blohm

hpbs1696.boi.hp.com
From: daveni@northstar (Richard A. DAveni)
Newsgroups: rec.boats.paddle
Subject: Re: Legs falling asleep while 'yaking
Date: 16 Dec 92 19:45:26 GMT
Reply-To: daveni@northstar (Richard A. DAveni)
Organization: Project NORTHSTAR, Dartmouth College



I think that the "falling asleep" phenomenon is caused by pressure on
the nerves rather than  lack of blood circulation, and I would guess
he relevant pressure is not on your legs, but on your butt. Is there a
doctor in the house (or on the net?).  Since it happens in every boat
you've tried, you may be out of luck.  One thing that seems to help me
is to take the feet off the footpegs occasionally.

By the way, U of C students are not supposed to do this kind of stuff.
The U of C has to protect its militant nerd reputation.   

Kevin
Newsgroups: rec.boats.paddle
From: morgan@commtg3.rtp.dg.com (Keith Morgan)
Subject: Re: Canoe Racks?
Date: Thu, 17 Dec 92 01:31:01 GMT
Organization: Data General Corporation, RTP, NC.

2 answers for racks for a Jeep Cherokee:

1) buy a pair of Quick&Easys - thingies that clamp onto
   your rain gutters & allow you to put a 2x4 covered with
   outdoor carpeting between them.  I put beaucoup miles
   on my Cherokee with yaks, a tandem C2, and open canoes
   on top with nary a problem.

2) something called RaqAdaptor, available(or orderable) at
   most places that carry Thule or Yakima racks.  It allows
   you to use Yakima or Thule racks with the strip style
   rack mounts that come stock on Jeeps (& vans)..  I bought
   a pair of these, but only got to use them a few times before
   some conehead totalled my Jeep by not looking carefully
   before trying to cross 6 lanes of traffic (I'm now a True
   Believer in the survivability of Jeeps in T-bone wrecks).

All in all, I think the Q&Es with 2x4 crossbars is the better
solution.  They're easily removable, cheap, and can be adapted
to any car with rain gutters by adjusting/replacing the
2x4 crossbars.
Keith Morgan                     
Data General                  ------------------------
Research Triangle Park, NC    credo quia absurdium est
(919)248-6078                 ------------------------
Newsgroups: rec.boats.paddle
From: smay@boi.hp.com (Scott Smay)
Subject: Re: Dry Suit Dangers....NOT!
Date: Mon, 14 Dec 1992 16:56:22 GMT
Organization: Hewlett-Packard / Boise, Idaho
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1.4 PL6]

SCOTT DYLAN HARDING (sdh4@ns1.cc.lehigh.edu) wrote:
: 
:     First of all, the drysuit would not hold in lots of water.  Water would
:     replace trapped air inside the drysuit.  If you put your drysuit on
:     properly, there should not be much air inside.
:
The drysuit will hold *lots* of water because of its loose cut. It has nothing
to do with how you put it on.
 
:     You would not weigh hundred of pounds if the suit did fill with water.
:     You have to remember that the weight of objects in water is a fraction of
:     their weight on land.  You average adult weighs less than 15 pounds in the
:     water.

I suggest an experiment--jump in a swimming pool with your drysuit on and the
closure unsealed. My hypothesis is that you will come to appreciate the difference between buoyancy and mass. Note that I do NOT suggest performing this 
experiment in a river, due to my aversion to wrongful death lawsuits.

: 
:     If your drysuit was already ripped and for some reason you felt it
:     necessary to remove it in a hurry, couldn't you just continue the rip that
:     was already there?

It would probably be just as practical to blow all the water out of it and 
tape it up before getting out of the river.

: 
:     I think you need to paddle more and worry less.  Drysuits are safe and
:     warm.  A good roll will save you from problems.

Drysuits *are* pretty safe, but I don't think this attitude is.

cheers,
scott
Newsgroups: rec.boats
From: spencer@panix.com (David Spencer)
Subject: Re: Coast Guard user fee repealed!
Date: Thu, 17 Dec 1992 14:16:56 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: PANIX Public Access Unix, NYC

gbanks@oxygen.aps1.anl.gov (Gregory Banks) writes:

>Good news! The ripp-off fee that the government imposed on boaters
>that used water accessed by the coast guard is no more as of 1993!

I'm probably the only person who's going to disagree with you here.
The user fee is a terrific idea. My momma taught me to pay for what I
use, and not to slop at the government trough.

Why tax the poor to provide a service to the rich? As for commercial
fisherman, it's a cost of doing business. Only now it's going to be
paid by someone else.

Grow up and shoulder your responsibilities.

dhs   spencer@panix.com







Newsgroups: rec.boats
From: wwalker@qualcomm.com (Bill Walker)
Subject: Re: Loran vs SatNav (Was Bermuda...)
Followup-To: rec.boats
Organization: Qualcomm, Inc.
Date: Mon, 14 Dec 1992 20:04:58 GMT

In article <1992Dec14.112836.25447@zoo.bt.co.uk>, jcs@zoo.bt.co.uk (John C
Sager) wrote:
[stuff deleted]
> GPS also allows height fixes
> (not much use on a boat but great for aircraft & land navigation).
> 
> John C Sager					Mail:	B67 G18, BT Labs
> Email:	jcs@zoo.bt.co.uk				Martlesham Heath
> Tel:	+44 473 642623					IPSWICH  IP5 7RE
> Fax:	+44 473 637614					England

But you have to be aware of what model is used for the earth.  I've seen
GPS receivers indicating negative altitude when I was on dry land here in
San Diego (-11 meters, as I recall).

----------
Bill Walker - WWalker@qualcomm.com - QUALCOMM, Inc., San Diego, CA
All opinions expressed are mine, and do not reflect those of my employer.
"First thing we do, we kill all the lawyers." - Shakespeare
Newsgroups: rec.boats
From: thompson@atlas.socsci.umn.edu (T. Scott Thompson)
Subject: Re: Gybing Centreboards
Reply-To: thompson@atlas.socsci.umn.edu
Organization: Economics Department, University of Minnesota
Date: Thu, 17 Dec 1992 05:29:23 GMT

michaels@oasys.dt.navy.mil (Robert Michaelson) writes:

>As an aside there were some impressive performing bilgeboard big
>boats in the 70's, specifically Hawkeye and Agressive designed by
>Bruce King. If I remember right, they had no keel or centerboard on
>the centerline at all. The rocker of the hull was somewhat deep with
>internal ballast. Lift was provided by 2 foils, one on each side. The
>foils were canted so that when the boat was heeling they were closer
>to vertical, and I think the blades were asymetrical in cross section
>with a built in angle of attack. (anyone on the net know more? my info
>might be off). These boats cleaned up in a big way when they were
>first racing, but the geniuses of IOR penalized them out of existence.

You can sail a 38-footer with most of these features and an enormous
masthead chute even today.  Just come to the midwest and hitch a ride
on an A-scow.  Can you say fast?  How about "don't capsize"!

--
T. Scott Thompson              email:  thompson@atlas.socsci.umn.edu
Department of Economics        phone:  (612) 625-0119
University of Minnesota        fax:    (612) 624-0209
Newsgroups: rec.boats
From: jamesm@lunch.austin.ibm.com (James Miller)
Subject: Lightning (was Re: Confused)
Date: Mon, 14 Dec 1992 19:36:26 GMT
Reply-To: jamesm@lunch.austin.ibm.com
Organization: IBM AWD; Austin, Texas

In message, <1girguINNlgv@male.EBay.Sun.COM>, jeffh@nonsuch.EBay.Sun.COM
(Jeff Huntington) writes:
[lots of stuff about zinc, electrolysis, etc.]
> I think lightning protection is another thing altogther.  One theory says to
> turn your mast into a lightning rod by making a really easy path to ground
> (the water); the other says to prevent paths to ground (usually throught
> your electronics) and let the insulating properties of the boat (wood or
> plastic) render the strike harmless (if you don't create a path to ground
> through yourself.  (ouch!).  :-) In the first case, you will be attracting a
> lot of lightning, but it will usually be harmlessly conducted to the water.
> In the second case, you wull not attract as much lightning, but when you do
> it will usually do no harm.  The bottom line is, there are no guarantees
> either way.  Please don't start a flame war about lightning - I am about as
> far away from a knowledgeable person on the subject as you can find, even
> though my 12 foot boat was once struck by lightning when I was in the middle
> of the lake.  I have been reading quite a lot about lightning, and I tried
> to summarize what has been written.

I surely don't want to start a flamefest either, but I haven't seen any
discussion of lightning on this group recently and would like to.  Why?  One
of the few things that make me nervous sailing on a Central Texas lake is
the rapidity with which a really nasty electrical storm can brew up,
especially from late spring through midsummer.  Floating out in the middle
of several square miles of *flat* water with a 24" (conductive!) aluminum
tube wanging over your head during one of these storms is tempting Fate.

Maybe I worry too much -- I've only heard one story of lightning damage
here.  A friend with a 20-odd ft. Buccaneer had his boat hit while it was in
its wet slip, next to all the other boats, last winter.  The current went
through and exploded the head (port-a-potty).  The worst part of the repairs
was cleaning the inside of the coach roof.  =8^(
--

_________________________________________________________________

  James Miller -- developing Unix software at (!) IBM -- Austin
_________________________________________________________________

  Internet:  jamesm@voyager.austin.ibm.com   (129.35.131.245)
  ibm?net:   jamesm@lunch.austin.ibm.com     (129.35.129.93)
  VNET:      JAMESM at AUSVM6
  yaknet:    512 838-1608
  UPSnet:    11400 Burnet Rd., IMAD 9541; Austin, Texas 78758
_________________________________________________________________
Newsgroups: rec.boats
From: jfh@cs.brown.edu (John F. Hughes)
Subject: Re: TIP: Soldering Wire
Organization: Brown University Department of Computer Science
Distribution: usa
Date: Thu, 17 Dec 1992 19:33:18 GMT

In article <1992Dec17.182040.8285@eng.ufl.edu> fortner@hal.eel.ufl.edu (Dave Fortner) writes:
>
>When I work on repair/replacement of exisiting wiring on
>my boat I find that the stranded copper wire is corroded
>for a long distance up into the insulation. The corroded
>wire will not take solder. TIP: Get a gallon of Muratic (sp?)

Muriatic acid is basically low-grade Hydrochloric acid, I believe.

>Acid (used for lower ph in a swimming pool), get three (3)
>PLASTIC cups and some baking soda. In cup 1, pour about an inch
>of Muratic Acid. In cup 2, put a well rounded teaspoon of
>baking soda and add about an inch of water, mix well. In
>cup 3, fill with water. Cut wire and strip insulation, dip
>bare end into cup 1, and gently move wire around, you'll
>see a small cloud of yellow "stuff" come off of the wire.

This is copper chloride, dissolving in the acid...

>Next, nutrilize the acid by immersing the end of the wire
>in cup 2. Lastly, rinse end of wire in cup 3 and dry with
>a clean cloth. The wire will now "take" solder as good
>or better than new wire.

The exposed copper has a pretty clean finish, and so you're
ready to solder it.

But here's a question: Why are you trying to re-use wire that's 
corroded? If you want to "do things right," I'd recommend the following:
replace the wire, and at the two ends, just short of the attachment point,
put in a couple of loops, so that the wire runs around about a 1" circle
twice. 

Now you've got some spare wire when you next need to trim off the end, 
*and*, if it's attached to your engine, you've built in a little vibration
resistance: the loop will flex instead of the copper strands right at the
fittings, if you're lucky.

One more thing about soldering: it's not so clear that solder's a good
idea in areas that might get salt water on them, since you're just begging
for electrolytic corrosion of the joint. This has been argued back 
and forth a lot by various folks...

I personally really love the Ancor marine fittings. They have a piece of
heat-shrink tube where most crimp fittings have rigid plastic. So...
you stick the wire in, crimp, and then heat shrink, so that the entire
connectiong is encased in a littel watertight seal. They cost a bit
more, but I believe they are worth it.

By the way, if you're doing some re-wiring, consider getting a copy of
the ABYC's list of colors to use for various tasks. If you *know*
that everything's properly color-coded, it makes your job a lot
easier later on. 

-John


Newsgroups: rec.boats
From: Brian_Purdy@mindlink.bc.ca (Brian Purdy)
Subject: Re: Rooftop boat loaders
Organization: MIND LINK! - British Columbia, Canada
Date: Wed, 16 Dec 1992 15:28:07 GMT

Thanks for the response. You might well be right about getting a trailer.
Friends of mine have urged me to do so too, and forget about putting the
kayaks on the roof.

I guess I just have a reluctance to have an elongated van, with another 20 +
feet stuck on the back of it. The van is already about 25'  long.

I too have concerns about putting that much weight that high up. I'm sure it
would affaect vehicle handling - I just hoped it wouldn't be too much.

Well, if I don't find a suitable rooftop loader, it'll be a trailer.

Thanks for your advice.
--
Brian-Purdy@mindlink.BC.CA
Vancouver,British-Columbia
Canada

*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*

Brian-Purdy@mindlink.BC.CAVancouver,British-ColumbiaCanada
From: Gunther.Yip@f764.n153.z1.ship.wimsey.bc.ca (Gunther Yip)
Sender: UUCP@ship.wimsey.bc.ca
From: floydb@rpi.edu
Subject: Request for opinions: Solar assisted electrical systems
Date: Mon, 14 Dec 1992 21:51:23 GMT

I recent saw ads for flexible photo-voltaic power collectors
(solar cells, solar power, etc.).

Anyone have hands-on experience with on-board solar systems?

Given the movement of a sailboat underway it would seem that
the panels couldn't operate near capacity due to the varying
angle of incidence, light/shade conditions from sails, etc.

Given the recent discussions regarding Zinc, grounds, lightning,
etc. I wonder how well solar panels hold up out at sea and
what maintanence is required?...

barry

Newsgroups: rec.boats
From: rwein@spartan.ac.BrockU.CA (Robert A. Wein)
Subject: Sail Related Software
Keywords: sailing software
Organization: Brock University, St. Catharines Ontario
X-Newsreader: Tin 1.1 PL4
Date: Thu, 17 Dec 1992 17:13:11 GMT

I was reading in Sail magazine a while back and they were talking about
sailing software (proprietary) that deals with navigation and such.
They also mentioned that there was a "veritable plethora" of shareware
software out there.

Anybody know of ftp sites that would have this kind of software??

Thanks...
-- 

-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=--
|Robert A. Wein      | rwein@spartan.ac.brocku.ca |        Brock University|
| V401A, Brock University, St. Catharines Ontario, L2S 3A1    416/688-1786 |
From: alicer@gimli.uio.no (Alice Rossmann)
Subject: Re: Request for opinions: Cruising and fishing for food
Reply-To: alicer@gimli.uio.no (Alice Rossmann)
Organization: University of Oslo, Norway
Date: Tue, 15 Dec 1992 08:34:34 GMT

We fished while under sail.. It really isn't a problem if it is pleasant
weather and wind! Off of Mexico (on the pacific side) we got a lot of
Tuna, off of the Pacific North West we got Salmon and in the Atlantic we
got Dolphin Fish... Its a wonderful way to have fresh food while out
sailing. You don't have to worry about catching to big of a fish.. just
use the right hooks! We didn't fish when the wind picked up... to much
to do with the boat never mind fishing!  The only problem you need to
know about is the different laws of fishing when in territorial waters! 
-Alice