HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: steinber@cc.und.ac.za (Michael Steinberg)
Subject: Die Stem
Organization: University Of Natal (Durban)
Date: Tue, 18 Aug 1992 12:20:35 GMT


The ANC does not object to the singing of 'Nkosi sikelel' iAfrica' at 
international soccer matches. On Saturday this anthem was sung at the soccer 
international between Zimbabwe and SA. Why then do the ANC object to an 
anthem being sung at an international rugby game ??
So they are saying that only their anthem is OK or that anthems are OK but 
only at soccer.
This anthem does not represent all the SA people, and neither does Die Stem, 
but it should be every persons' democratic right to sing the anthem of his 
choice.

Mike



 ______________________  __________________________________
/                      \/                                  \
| Michael Steinberg     |  [27] 31 8161137                  |
| University of Natal   |                                   |
| Durban,South Africa   |  steinber@cc.und.ac.za            |
\______________________/\__________________________________/

*   *   **   ***  **  *
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* * *  ****   *  **** *
*   *  *  *   *  *  * ****
The     Last     Outpost
Newsgroups: rec.sport.rugby
Subject: NZ vs SA prediction
From: clive@otago.ac.nz (Clive Boock)
Date: 14 Aug 92 13:35:27 +1300
Organization: University of Otago, Dunedin, New Zealand



News from Seth Efricca this morning that Dr Danie Craven said that New
Zealanders are poor losers and that they should start looking for excuses now
for the coming test as the Springboks will easily beat them.

   Well let's wait until Sunday, Danie, before we see who will require
excuses.  From this distance I would say that Naasty Bootha and his boys from
the veldt will be puffing hard as Wily Foxy pushes them all over the field with
his tactical kicking. And the hard men upfront may well come unstuck against
Fitzpatrick and his men. 
   Shit, I havn't looked forward to a test so much since the All Blacks played
the Wallabies !!  

   My prediction?  All Blacks 30 (3 x converted tries, 3 x penalty)
                   Springboks 13 (1 x converted try, 1 x penalty, 1 x dropgoal)

Clive H. Boock, University of Otago, New Zealand.
From: exubho@exu.ericsson.se (Blake Holman)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.rugby
Subject: Rugby Players Wanted!!!
Date: 21 Aug 92 13:19:24 GMT
Reply-To: exubho@exu.ericsson.se (Blake Holman)
Organization: Ericsson Network Systems, Inc., Richardson Texas


The Dallas Rugby Football Club located in Dallas, Texas, USA
would like to extend an invitation to Rugby players around 
the USA and the world to come to Dallas and play rugby with
our club.

The Dallas Rugby Football Club was founded in 1968 and fields
three to four competitive rugby sides weekly.  In addition,
our club consistently fares well in local, regional and
national competition.

Our club currently has a need for those that play the 'lock'
position.  Ideally, we would like to find some guys that are
6 ft. 4 inches or taller and weigh around 250 pounds that are
interested in coming out and playing lock for us.  However,
no rugby players seriously interested in coming to Dallas 
will be refused.  For those who are serious, we can assist
in finding housing and a job.

If you are one of these interested or know of someone, please
respond via e-mail to exubho@exu.ericsson.se or by letter to
the following address:

Dallas RFC
c/o Jeffrey D. Kolberg
342 Omaha
Duncanville Texas USA 75116

Please reference this posting when responding.

Thanks for your consideration!!

Blake Holman
Ericsson Network Systems, Inc
Richardson, Texas
(214) 997-6784
e-mail: exubho@exu.ericsson.se
Newsgroups: rec.sport.rugby
From: keyser@oliver.sun.ac.za (P.W. Keyser)
Subject: Australia beat N.T.
Reply-To: keyser@cs.sun.ac.za
Organization: Universiteit van Stellenbosch, R.S.A.
X-Newsreader: Tin 1.1 PL5
Date: Fri, 14 Aug 1992 15:56:04 GMT

Australia beat Northern Transvaal by 24-17 today at Loftus Versveld in
Pretoria. Australia gave a poor perfomance. I don't know how they beat 
the All Blacks. Maybe they aren't used to the S.A. conditions yet.

--
  Wouter

------------------------------------------------------------------
P.W. Keyser                      e-mail:keyser@cs.sun.ac.za         
Departement Rekenaarswetenskap,  "These Romans are crazy" - Obelix  
U.S., Stellenbosch, 7600, R.S.A.
------------------------------------------------------------------
Newsgroups: rec.sport.rugby
From: allanc@cs.su.oz.au (Restless Wanderer)
Subject: Re: Any one going to Aus Test
Reply-To: allanc@cluster.cs.su.oz (Restless Wanderer)
Organization: Basser Dept of Computer Science, University of Sydney, Australia
Date: Mon, 17 Aug 1992 23:43:06 GMT

Is anybody going to watch the Aus vs SA live?
If so can you email me please...
allanc

Newsgroups: rec.sport.rugby
From: ccfj@hippo.ru.ac.za (F. Jacot Guillarmod)
Subject: Re: All Blacks vs South Africa
Organization: Rhodes University, Grahamstown, South Africa
Date: Sun, 23 Aug 1992 06:37:32 GMT

In <1992Aug21.145808.10287@waikato.ac.nz> higham@waikato.ac.nz writes:

>It will be intersting to see what happens tomorrow, I hear the Wallabies are
>planning not to play until a minutes silence happens. Maybe there won't be a
>game at all?

The minutes silence occured without incident, and no anthems were
played.  Which probably goes to show that it's faulty logic to
extrapolate the behaviour of rugby spectators (and administrators) at
Ellis Park as somehow representing white South African attitudes.

-- 
  F.F. Jacot Guillarmod     PO  Box 94     \        |     ccfj@hippo.ru.ac.za
  Computing Centre       Grahamstown 6140   \      /     +27 461 22023 xt 284
  Rhodes University        South Africa      ;___*/   33 18 30 S | 26 31 45 E
From: peterda@cs.uow.edu.au (Peter Donald Asquith)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.rugby
Subject: Re: Wallabies vs Western Transvaal
Date: 13 Aug 92 03:15:32 GMT
Organization: Dept of Computer Science, Wollongong University, Australia

s8923098@macnab.mqcs.mq.oz.au (Josef WIDJAJA) writes:

... match summary deleted

>It was a good start by the Wallabies. Western Transvaal lacked skills
>and variety and the Wallabies were able to exploit their weaknesses.

On the strength of this game, (we haven't
seen much of the All Black games) the most apparent difference
between the two teams was the skills in the backs.   
The alignment and passing of the S.A.'s looked a little dated, and
they certainly kicked too much in the Wallabies 22. They also
had trouble controlling the Wallabies rolling maul. 
Western Transvaal had no problems with size though - I thought 
Australia had a big pack!

I'm tremendously excited about the tours of Sth Africa, but
I wonder whether Australia is playing too much rep rugby at the 
moment? Maybe Campo has a point.

Peter Asquith
University of Wollongong
(Kiama Rugby Club)
Australia.
Newsgroups: rec.sport.rugby
Subject: NZ National Champs summary
From: cctr123@csc.canterbury.ac.nz (Alan Murray, CSC Operations, Uni of Canty)
Date: 17 Aug 92 11:31:53 +1200
Organization: University of Canterbury, Christchurch, New Zealand

There have been some National Championship games played over the last week.
I'm afraid I can't remember the scores of all the games but will provide a
summary of the "leading" teams' efforts.

Hawkes Bay came back from the dead last week to defeat a disappointing
Wellington side who made the worst possible start to their 1992 campaign.

Canterbury went north last week for a two match tour and fell foul of yet
another northern conspiracy. I mean the referee in both games - against Waikato
and North Auckland (hi Evan) - was obviously biased. How else could one explain
the manner in which both teams piled on points in the first twenty minutes and
then didn't score for the rest of the match - they must have been cheating!!!
For the record Waikato beat Canterbury by three points (27-24 sounds familiar
though I might have heard that score elsewhere :-)) whilst North Auckland were
slightly more convincing recording a 24-16 win.

Otago had a mixed trip north easily disposing of North Auckland (sorry Evan)
midweek but were then, in turn, cleaned out by North Harbour by the tune of
30-8. North Harbour currently head the table having beaten King Country earlier
in the season.

The big upset came last on Saturday when Wellington defeated Auckland in front
of a deserted Athletic Park. I guess the fans were too embarassed by the
previous loss to Hawkes Bay to front up to what looked like being a hiding.
However Andy Leslie had made five changes to the front five and they seemed to
work a treat. The only try was scored just before half-time and enabled
Wellington to lead 11-6 at the break and they hung on for a 17-9 victory.

All this leaves North Harbour alone at the top with two wins, Auckland,
Wellington, Waikato, North Auckland and Otago with a win apiece and poor old
Canterbury floundering near the bottom


Alan
From: allanc@cs.su.oz.au (Restless Wanderer)
Subject: Re: All Blacks vs Springboks
Reply-To: allanc@cluster.cs.su.oz (Restless Wanderer)
Organization: Basser Dept of Computer Science, University of Sydney, Australia
Date: Tue, 18 Aug 1992 05:19:22 GMT

In article <SAREL.92Aug17221134@ford.ford.ee.up.ac.za> sarel@ford.ford.ee.up.ac.za (Sarel Lugtenburg) writes:
>played together. We'll see on Saturday what happens when they play
>your "World Champions".


	Do the SA rugby public in general sincerely believ that if you beat
	Aus in a one off test that SA were real contenders for the WC.
	From this side of the Pacific the intrepretation is that if you
	do indeed win the Test,that SA will complain about not being allowed
	into the WC.Do you guys believ that a one off test beating the Current
	WC's makes you better than them.?
	What about qualifing rounds where some 'top' teams were upset.?
	No matter what happens on the test game,the SA Boks are a long way from
	being WC beaters.
	Aus has played over 11 international tests in only 6 weeks ,how many 
	have the SA team played in 6 years...... ONE ?

	Don't get me wrong ,but a one off is a bullshit idea.Ask the Kiwi's
	when it comes to a one off Bledisloe Cup..... both sides want a 5-0
	victory,but if we did that ,SA would only get tired and leg sore  
	tourists.We settle for a 3 test series and still woop the arse off 
	those 4th placed WC teams.

	The Blacks had your measure and coasted to victory,sure the SA team
	is impressive,but with 33y.o centres(shit I might make a come back in 
	SA) I think Horan and Little will make him feel like a grandfather.

	Good luck,from one who constantly eats humble pie..eh Clive@NZ ?
	Bad score spread,Clive but real close for the Blacks.Any points
	spread on the OZ game clive.?.

	*Heard on a TV show in Sydney......
	'Those AB's will be glad to get back to NZ after a 9 week tour of SA.
	Even if it is New Zealand' ...............*                      
	
	Rugby before politics.....................                   allanc



>
>
>--
>----------------------------------------------------------------------------
>Sarel P. Lugtenburg
>electronic address : sarel@ford.ee.up.ac.za    voice : (+27-12) 420-2983
>physical address : 749 Kamdebo Ave, Florauna, Pretoria, 0182, South Africa 
>


Newsgroups: rec.sport.rugby
From: scott@cs.sfu.ca (Scott Barney)
Subject: Swansea beat BC President's 15
Summary: Swansea 18-17 over BC 15 for 2nd win of Canadian tour.
Organization: CSS, Simon Fraser University, Burnaby, B.C., Canada
Date: Thu, 20 Aug 1992 18:20:53 GMT

Lifted from the Vancouver Province, 92-8-20:
  Welsh rugby champions Swansea won the second of three Canadian rugby
  tour games Wednesday by beating the British Columbia President's 15
  18-17 in Victoria.  Swansea rallied from 3-14 deficit to go ahead 15-14.
  Centre Scott Gibbs and wing Simon Davies scored tries for Wales while
  out-half Stephan Jones kicked two penalties and a convert.  Out-half
  John Graf landed four penalties for B.C. but then missed a match
  winner with the final kick. Flanker Rob Robson scored a try.

I assume the first game was back east somewhere, if anyone knows how it went
you might let us know.

Scott
From: peterda@cs.uow.edu.au (Peter Donald Asquith)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.rugby
Subject: Re: All Blacks vs Springboks
Date: 21 Aug 92 01:28:35 GMT
Organization: Dept of Computer Science, Wollongong University, Australia

sarel@ford.ford.ee.up.ac.za (Sarel Lugtenburg) writes:

>Did you perhaps watch the game on Friday - the fully fledged Wallaby
>team against a broken down Northern Transvaal team. At least you can't
>complain about the ref here (even though he was a South African). Even
>Campese himself admits that his one try was a knock-on (BTW the score
>was 24-17 for AU. The difference of one goal). In my humble opinion,
>the Wallabies were outplayed by Northern Transvaal, and only bad place
>kicking cost Northern's the game.

>The Springboks were a bit shaky against NZ. It was the first
>international for a lot of the players and also the first time they
>played together. We'll see on Saturday what happens when they play
>your "World Champions".

>Sarel P. Lugtenburg

________________________________
Good Grief,

Peter Asquith
Uni of Wollongong
Australia
From: tratnana@EUREKA-GOLD.WBME.JHU.EDU (Tilak Ratnanather)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.rugby
Subject: LONDON TIMES THURS 13 AUG
Date: 14 Aug 92 12:00:38 GMT

An ex-patriate South African friend faxed me this newspaper
article from the Times (London: Thurs Auguest 13, 1992):

        ALL BLACKS ANXIOUS FOR A FINAL FLOURISH
                (David Hands in Johannesburg)

Even though the Bledilsoe Cup has slipped from their grasp
alreday, NZ's tour to A and SA will be regarded as a qualified
success should they reurn home having beaten SA in that country's
historic return to world rugby at Ellis Park here on Saturday.

To that end, the ABs will field the same XV that last month
deprived A of a 3-0 series sweep. Despite an abundance of injuries,
Jamie Joesph and Michael Jones were selected in the back row which
means no place for that valuable retainer, Andy Earl.

Vai'aga Tuigamala has recoverd from a bruised shoulder and plays on
the left wing while, in the replacements, Matthew Cooper and Eroni
Clarke are bracketed in case Clarke the center does not recover from
muscular strain.

"We have some specific tactics ready for the South Africans which were
used against A" Laurie Mains, the NZ coach, said before his side,
together with the touring Australians and the host team, came together
for a civic reception yesterday at the Gold Reef Mine near here. He did
not enlarge.

South Africa, too, unveiled a novelty when they trained at the Rand
Afrikaans University. Their conditioning coach is Eugene Short, the
former international hurdler, and, so far as I am aware, the only
woman to hold such a post in international rugby. Part of her routine
was to (make?) music, a Michale Jackson number which goes appropriately
...."It doesnt matter if you're black or white".

She worked for four years with John Williams, the new Springbok coach,
on the conditioning of the Northern Transvaal players and believes her
country's players must now change in shape and strength.

"We don't train enough in South AFrica" she said "like in athletics we
must train every day. Some of our forwards must lose weight. I hope I
can motivate them, bring a greater sense of rhythm to their play." Such
is Short's reputation that among with her at Pretoria University have
been Jeff Young (Hey you NZ guys - remember Jazz Muller who busted his
jaw in 1969 when the Triple Crown Welsh team visited NZ and came to
nought against Meads, Lochore, Tremain, Gray, Nathan et al) the Welsh
union's technical director, who is here to see the international.

The Australians, meanwhile have picked for their match against Northern
Transvaal in Pretoria tomorrow all those who did not play against Western
Transvaal on Tuesday. Campese and David Wilson have their second outing
of the week at wing  and flanker respectively.

TEAM:

NZ Timu, Kirwan, Bunce, Little, Tuigamala, Fox, Strachan, Loe, Fitzpatrick,
Brown, Joseph, R Brooke, I Jones, M Jones, Z Brooke

Replacements: Cooper or Clarke, Preston, Dowd, Pene, Earl, McDowell
Newsgroups: rec.sport.rugby
From: davidnz@leland.Stanford.EDU (David Richard Bell)
Subject: Predictions/News on Upcoming Test(s)
Organization: DSG, Stanford University, CA 94305, USA
Date: Thu, 13 Aug 92 17:16:16 GMT

First of all many thanks to those in SA and elsewhere who have been putting
out commentaries on the SA tour (their own and "lifted" ones). They are
greatly appreciated.

Would it be possible for someone to post any news of predictions/outlook/
general comments on the test build up? I understand there is some wrangle over
the T.V. coverage in N.Z. but the newspapers must be saying something?
Also, continued comment from SA would be great. This is a very big match for
both teams - the AB's trying to build up their record, and SA trying to show 
the world that they are still a first class outfit.

Cheers
David B
Newsgroups: rec.sport.rugby
Subject: Re: All Blacks vs Springboks
From: cctr123@csc.canterbury.ac.nz (Alan Murray, CSC Operations, Uni of Canty)
Date: 18 Aug 92 10:04:02 +1200
Organization: University of Canterbury, Christchurch, New Zealand

In article <pieter.714069288@ford>, pieter@ford.ee.up.ac.za (Pieter Vermeulen) writes:
> O, and then there was the intimidation of Botha by FItzpatrick...

Bloody hell here's another of these "your guys are thugs, our guys are angels"
merchants. Explain how it is that Wahl Bartmann was put on a final warning by
the referee and Botha was told to get his players to cut out the dirt. Oh - of
course I forgot - biased referee, sheeesh.

Alan

Newsgroups: rec.sport.rugby
From: pieter@ford.ee.up.ac.za (Pieter Vermeulen)
Subject: Re: All Blacks vs South Africa
Date: 20 Aug 92 19:43:35 GMT
Organization: University of Pretoria, South Africa

hist1261@waikato.ac.nz writes:
>I can of course hear the cries already of "he's a racist, he's a racist", but
>nevertheless I would go further and suggest the arrogance with which the ANC
>has used rugby as a political football over the last few weeks is
>reprehensible.  The only thing worse is the Australian Foreign Ministry's
>willingness to follow each and every utterance from that political movement
>as though it were the word of God.  As worthy as is the fight against
>discrimination and for political equality, surely the ANC at the end of the
>day is a political party, much like that other black group we mysteriously
>hear so little of in the New Zealand media.  To blindly follow the dictates
>of one party is hardly "democratic".
The ANC is just about the only political grouping in the world that
has doubts about a market driven economy (except for the South African
Comunist Party), yet most governments reckon they have the best ideas
there is on South Africa......

>Was there any TANGIBLE damage done because the minute's silence was not
>observed?  Would the observance have brought back the thousands who have
>died, on both sides, due to township violence?  Perhaps such a
>political gesture was inappropriate in such a sporting context in the first
>place - particularly when it cut directly across traditions (and not wholly
>apartheid traditions either) which have been established in International
>Rugby for most of this century.
Damage it did. Just look at the heat it generated. There is no way a
national anthem / flag gan generate so much heat on its own. There was
more to it (the stopping on negotiations comes to mind, etc..)
Anyway, looking at the future of SA, I would think it a good idea to
get politics far removed from sport, since it is one of the few
activities in SA bringing people together without any political
baggage tied to the event.  Just like the world helped us to end
Apartheid, it is maybe time for the world to help us getting this
society back on the road by promoting sport. We need a bit more of
'the ANC ain't that bad a bunch; they helped us to get back in
international rugby' as opposed to 'who the hell are these ANC guys to
tell me not to (oficially) sing the national anthem'.

Pieter
 

Newsgroups: rec.sport.rugby
From: sarel@ford.ford.ee.up.ac.za (Sarel Lugtenburg)
Subject: Re: All Blacks vs Springboks
Date: 20 Aug 92 00:37:48
	<SAREL.92Aug17221134@ford.ford.ee.up.ac.za>
	<1992Aug18.051922.1250@cs.su.oz.au>
Organization: Department of Electronic and Electrical Engineering


>	Do the SA rugby public in general sincerely believ that if you beat
>	Aus in a one off test that SA were real contenders for the WC.
>	From this side of the Pacific the intrepretation is that if you
>	do indeed win the Test,that SA will complain about not being allowed
>	into the WC.Do you guys believ that a one off test beating the Current
>	WC's makes you better than them.?

Having doubts about your team, uh ?  

Let's see what happens on Saturday before starting with such
arguments. We might even lose the match :-)


--
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 _   _         _     _   _
|_> | | |/ |/ |_    |_> | |    |
|_> |_| |\ |\ |_    |_> |_|    .
From: masljg@gdr.bath.ac.uk (L J Groves)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.rugby
Subject: Re: "All Blacks triumph over Fighting Boks"
Date: 18 Aug 92 18:45:52 GMT
Organization: School of Mathematics, University of Bath, UK

In article <1992Aug16.171419.9357@hippo.ru.ac.za> ccfj@hippo.ru.ac.za (F. Jacot Guillarmod) writes:
>...
>Lifted without permission from the Sunday Times, Johannesburg, August 16 1992
>The All Blacks were well served by their loose forwards Jones, Brooke
>and Jamie Joseph who ensured that they were able to corkscrew the ball
>effectively to keep the Springboks on their heels.
>...

The game was shown here on ITV (I'm glad SKY didn't get their mits on that
one), with English commentators who seemed quite hopeful that SA would win
-- fat chance! 

One thing has me puzzled though:

Throughout the game, the commentators kept saying that Robin Brooke had
done such and such, when it was actually Jamie Joseph, or that Jamie Joseph
had done such and such, when it was actually Robin Brooke.  I found this
quite amusing as they commented several times on the fact that Robin and
Zinzan Brooke were brothers, yet they didn't noticed the difference in
colour between Zinzan and the guy they kept calling Robin Brooke!
Eventually, I looked a bit harder and realised that in fact Jamie Joseph
was wearing the no. 5 jersey that I had expected to see on Robin Brooke,
and Robin Brooke was wearing no. 6, so I assumed that the commentators had
been basing their naming of players (not unreasonably) on a team list that
had them the other way around.  Then I looked really hard at the next scrum
and, sure enough, Joseph packed down at lock with Robin Brooke at flank.

So, can someone who paid more attention during the game (or can check it on
video) tell me:  Did Robin Brooke and Jamie Joseph play at flank and lock,
respectively for the whole game?  Did they switch over at some point, or
was I mistaken?  Obviously the newspaper reporter quoted above thought that 
Joseph was playing on the flank.

Cheers
	Lindsay


--------------
Lindsay Groves                     On leave from:	
School of Mathematical Sciences    Department of Computer Science
University of Bath                 Victoria University of Wellington
Bath, England                      Wellington, New Zealand
ljg@maths.bath.ac.uk               lindsay@comp.vuw.ac.nz
 
Newsgroups: rec.sport.rugby