From: rika@informix.com (Rika Tsitsinia)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.yugoslavia,soc.culture.greek
Subject: Re: Independence for the State of Idaho and its people: Idahi! [Re: Indep..
Date: 31 Aug 92 18:21:53 GMT
Organization: Informix Software, Inc.

In article <1992Aug30.125903.20679@eecs.nwu.edu> efstse@epsilon.eecs.nwu.edu writes:
>In article <1992Aug30.102838.15630@enea.se> sommar@enea.se (Erland Sommarskog) writes:
>>Rika Tsitsinia (rika@informix.com) writes:
>>>	    Native americans would be rightly outraged if anglo-saxons
>>>	    or any other immigrants would call themselves Indians
>>>	    or Anasazi
>>
>>Aren't several of the states and cities in the US named after Indian 
>>tribes?
>

	I have not received Mr Sommarskog's reply yet, so I have to reply
    to a reply. First let me say that Max, who replies to Mr Sommarskog
    got it absolutely right. Many others, including some greeks did not.
    Of course, Mr Sommarskog is unable to get it because he does not
    want to. He still wants to pass the propaganda that the issue
    is the name, when the real issue is ethnic/cultural/historic
    heritage associated with the name Macedonia. Note that Greece
    does not have any problem recognizing these people as a distinct
    ethnic group with their own history and culture -- something that
    Bulgaria refuses to do! All that Greece wants is for the two
    nations/cultures/histories to be identified as distinct, since
    they indeed are. As everyone very well knows, labeling is
    a means of identification and that is why Greece is fighting
    for the name, too. Mr Sommarskog deliberately insists on fighting
    the minor point (the name/label) deprived of its more general
    context, in an effort to belittle the Greek cause.

	Below I quote the excellent argument by Max. BTW, the parallels
    between Macedonians and Anasazi run very deep and it would take
    a lot of space to expand on them. Very briefly: both of them are
    ancient cultures, in the sense that their most glorious history
    is in the past. Their history also represents some of the most
    glorious of their people (Greeks/American Indians respectively.)
    They did not get their name from the land they lived in; rather,
    the land got the name from them. They later "disappeared",
    actually mixed with their compatriots. Their lands were
    subsequently invaded by other people: Slavs and Turks in the
    case of Macedonians, Spanish and Anglo-saxons in the case of
    Anasazi.

	Believe me: any Anglo population that would create a
    country called Anasazi-a and would call themselves the Anasazis
    would encounter the stern fight of the Hopi, the Zuni and
    all the other American Indian nations that descend from
    the ancient Anasazis.

	This post was by

	Georgios

>Sure there are. But you did not get it, did you? It is not the naming of a
>state (that is, a PROVINCE of USA) that would make the outraged but the ethnic
>characterization of the people in it. An exactly similar situation happens
>with the name `Macedonia'. The naming of a province of X-Yugoslavia (or any
>other country) by `Macedonia' (although arbitrary) could be acceptable by
>Greece as th naming of the state Idaho is OK. However, consider the case that
>Idaho becomes an independent state and its inhabitants whether they
>are Aglosaxon, or whatever, are called `Idahi' exactly the same name as
>a native american tribe. THAT would not be acceptable by the native
>americans or anyone else. In the particular case of the name `Macedonia'
>while there was a former X-Yugoslavia Province (that was in essense the
>meaning of `Republic' in X-Yugoslavia) that was named `Macedonia' the
>people had the chance of keeping their ethic identity (Albanians,
>Serbs, Bulgarians, etc.) and still be called `Yugoslavs'. On the other
>hand, what is unacceptable to the Macedonians in Greece is an independent
>state of `Macedonia' where a PSEUDO-MACEDONIAN ETHNICITY is imposed to its
>people, thus creating a historical and cultural confusion regarding their
>culture and heritage. Let alone the realistic fears by the Macedonians
>in Greece that this new state has territorial claims on their ancestral land
>of Macedonia.
>
>>-- 
>>Erland Sommarskog - ENEA Data, Stockholm - sommar@enea.se
>>F|rst till kvarn f}r f|rst vankiva
>
>Max.
>______________________________________________________________________________
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