HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: bohack@cbnewsl.cb.att.com (edward.e.harstead)
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
Subject: Re: Light Weight Back Packing?
Date: 26 Jan 93 17:31:46 GMT
Distribution: na
Organization: AT&T

In article <1993Jan26.011119.1711@yarra-glen.aaii.oz.au> sml@yarra-glen.aaii.oz.au (Steven Law) writes:
>I have done a couple of such walks. On an overnight walk I have taken:
>
>1 stove full of fuel to save carrying a fuel bottle.

Surely we can do without a stove for a couple meals.   Bring iodine
tablets for water purification.

>1 tent fly, poles and pegs.

A bivy sack saves more weight.

I agree that the Thermarest is a must.  This is supposed to be
enjoyable, right?

Ed
From: jagrant@emr1.emr.ca (John Grant)
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
Subject: Re: Recommendation: a place to go with my father?
Date: 24 Jan 93 21:31:49 GMT
Article-I.D.: emr1.1993Jan24.213149.24369
Distribution: usa
Organization: Energy, Mines, and Resources, Ottawa

In article <1993Jan24.200026.1840@murdoch.acc.Virginia.EDU> abl9y@faraday.clas.Virginia.EDU (Andrew B. Lederman) writes:
>After years of claiming that I am crazy, my father hsa decided that he wants 
>to share a wilderness experience with me.  We are planning to go somewhere
>in mid-July, but don't know where to go.  He could probably not deal with 
>carrying a heavy pack for a long time, and canoeing is out, so we are loking
>for a good place to day trip from a lodge or something.  Anywhere in the U.S.
>is fair game, but we'd prefer someplace in the Rockies.  Any suggestions,    
>experiences would be  a great help.  I have to make this a good trip!
	You didn't say whether or not you minded or hated crowds,
	so it's hard to say... 
	
	I'm sure there are many places with day trips from lodges,
	but here's a few:

	1. Jenny Lake lodge in the Tetons - a nice day
	trip is to take a boat across the lake and walk up
	to Lake Solitude (aka Lake Multitude because of
	the large numbers of people).  It's a nice walk and isn't
	too strenuous.  About halfway up you can go left or right,
	either way bringing you into a cirque surrounded by very
	nice mountains.  From either one, you can continue to ascend
	to the tops of the passes.  Either way gives you great
	views of the Grand Teton from the back/sides.
	Note - I believe the lodge is quite pricey.  You can also
	take the lift up at the ski area to the south and walk north
	along the Tetons backbone - easy walking, beautiful meadows
	and wildflowers.

	2. Yoho National Park in the Canadian Rockies.  The lodge
	here is also quite expensive, but it is situated in a bowl
	containing many nice trails and beautiful scenery (its in
	behind Lake Louise).

	3. There are also lodges and cabins in Yosemite Valley.

	I haven't stayed in these expensive lodges, in fact their
	presence annoys me a bit (especially Yoho), but I imagine
	reservations are needed months in advance, if not a year.
	I don't know of any inexpensive lodges.

	An alternative is just to go to any of the big parks and
	do some car camping - reasonably comfortable, showers etc
	and then you can just drive each day to a different day
	hike.  I'm sure you can find enough day hikes to keep you
	busy in any of the National Parks - Banff, Jasper, Kootenay,
	Yoho, Tetons, Rainier, Mt. St.Helens, Yosemite, Rocky Mtn.
	National Park.  Also don't discount the canyon country.
	There are lots of good hikes in Utah - Zion (my favourite),
	Capitol Reef, etc etc.  Ahhhh - my blood is stirring now,
	can't wait to get out west again this summer - 5 months
	to wait.
-- 
John A. Grant						jagrant@emr1.emr.ca
Airborne Geophysics
Geological Survey of Canada, Ottawa
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
From: wl@cypress.com (Wilbur Luo/COMM)
Subject: Re: Altimeter watches
Originator: wl@coast
Organization: Cypress Semiconductor
Date: Wed, 27 Jan 1993 21:18:20 GMT


In article 1k3tgjINNp2n@mojo.eng.umd.edu, moo@king.eng.umd.edu (Deac Moo of the UGC) writes:
>In article <23287@venera.isi.edu>, jdeifik@isi.edu (Jeff Deifik) writes:
>
>>I went to the comsumer electronics show, and heard something about a
>>compass watch from casio.
>
>Wait two years, and you can get the GPS watch.
>	                *** MOO@CADLAB.ENG.UMD.EDU***
>Heaven: Playing craps with HotBabes(tm) screaming "I want you to come for MEEE." 


Yea, but it will cost a princely sum. I hear Trimble is working on something
like this. (purely rumors)

I had a chance to use a prototype of a Trimble "Scout". It's a hand-held GPS
system. They decided to can the project. (BTW, a hand-held system goes for about
$800+).  It was a pretty slick unit, that gives you all the standard GPS
functions as well as various display languages (e.g., french, japanese, nordic, etc..).
It ran on 4 AA batteries (I believe).

The unit with SA turned off had excellent accuracy (i.e., the width of a medium
sized trail). So if you were to grid up a topo map you can get pretty much
nail down your location. The altitude was iffy at times - especially with SA on.
We're talking hundreds of feet.

By the end of 1993, all 24 GPS satellites are expected to be up (21 + 3 spares) for
continuous _global_ coverage. I hope the government continues to fund this, but
I understand it costs upwards of $500 million/year to maintain and replace
inoperative satellites.

-W

Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
From: marco@netcom.com (Marco Flagg)
Subject: Re: Seeking 1-person tent
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services  (408 241-9760 guest) 
Date: Tue, 26 Jan 1993 04:37:53 GMT

The 'Gossamer' from Eureka has been working very nicely for me as a
one person tent. it's a little tube tent, which always makes other
people feel sorry for you. you have to be able to run at least five
stakes into the ground for it to work. i've been using it among other
places during a hike through iceland. got a pretty ferocious storm ther
but it stood up ok. rain never was a problem either. its low profile
enough, so the wind can't attack it much. it's got an interior 'moscito
net' with a rain fly on top of it. weight might be a bit over two pounds
(i'm guessing,  no scale).

marco

Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
From: bohack@cbnewsl.cb.att.com (edward.e.harstead)
Subject: Arrogance in r.b (was Re: Edward Abbey Quote in JFK)
Organization: AT&T
Distribution: na
Date: Thu, 28 Jan 1993 17:24:59 GMT

In article <Jan27.170653.67584@yuma.ACNS.ColoState.EDU> trzyna@CS.ColoState.EDU (wayne trzyna) writes:
>
>Probably because to the average American, "an American naturalist"
>is more meaningful than the name Edward Abbey. 
>
>You know the average American: the one feeding a Snickers bar to the
>Grizzly in Yellowstone Park.
>
>Edward who?
>

True or not, these remarks betray an arrogance that enables "Wise
Use" and other anti-environmental groups to claim backcountry
enthusiasts are "elitists".  Anti-elitism is used as a rallying
point for such groups in their battle against conservation,
restrictions in wilderness areas, etc.

I think that we are all better served if we refrain from displaying
this arrogance in public.

Ed
From: ron@isgtec.com (Ron Lipsius)
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
Subject: Re: Heavy Weight Backpacking (was Re: Light Weight Back Packing)
Date: 28 Jan 93 18:58:04 GMT
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1 PL8]

Kinson Ho (ho@helen.CS.Berkeley.EDU) wrote:

: What are the unusual (and RARELY USED) items people carry when they
: go *heavy* weight backpacking?  

: For example: elaborate repair kits (what?), signal flares, IV sets,
: satellite phones etc.

	Ok, I'll bite!

	Two years ago I ran a little canoe trip going into Killarney 
	(a provincial park.)  I delegated different tasks out, and the
	food was designated to a fellow named John.  (There were two
	John's on the trip, naming is purposefully ambiguous.)  What
	do I find when we actually set up the site?  

		A Heavy Cast Iron Crock-Pot (~20lbs)
		This is on a trip where another person left behind his
		rain-fly to save weight... and it rained.

	After four days it still had not been used, and he got to
	carry it on the portages back.  (Mind you, I have seen many
	classic errors from which I learned lessons in guiding a
	trip... this lesson: inspect peoples kits for stupidity
	before heading out.)



: Kinson Ho

--
Ron Lipsius ron@isgtec.com | Any man, in the right situation, is capable of
 ISG Technologies Inc.     | murder.  But not any man is capable of being a
 6509 Airport Road         | good camper. So, murder and camping are not as
 Mississauga, ONT  L4V 1S7 | similar as you might think.
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
From: gladug@armory.enet.dec.com (ger)
Subject: '93 thru-hikers?
Organization: Digital Equipment Corporation
Date: Tue, 26 Jan 1993 15:43:49 GMT


Just wondering if there are any other potential '93 (northbound) AT 
thru-hikers out there. If there are, let's compare notes. My start 
date is March 23rd.

Gerry Gladu
From: frankpit@eng.umd.edu (Bernard Adrian Frankpitt)
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
Subject: Re: White Gas Names [Was Re: Info on Whisper Lite Stoves]
Date: 24 Jan 1993 03:33:04 GMT
Organization: College of Engineering, Maryversity von Uniland, College Park
Distribution: world
NNTP-Posting-Host: ampere.src.umd.edu
Originator: frankpit@ampere.src.umd.edu


In New Zealand white gas is called white spirits ( as is colourless methylated spirits ) but
it is a bit hard to find under that name. Try going to a BP petrol station ( gas station ) and
asking for britolite - a trade name - and they should be able to pump as much as you will ever 
need out of a forty gallon drum for you.

Bernie
-- 
===============================================================================
      /\
     /  \     __________   
    /    \___/__        \     _
From: jag9931@rigel.tamu.edu (GLENNON, JOHN ALAN)
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
Subject: Enviro Law Schools
Date: 26 Jan 1993 21:07 CST
Organization: Texas A&M University, Academic Computing Services
Distribution: world
NNTP-Posting-Host: rigel.tamu.edu
Keywords: law schools, ewnvironmental programs
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41    

     I am interested in pursuing Law after completing my undergraduate degree.
Particularly, I am interested in environmental law.  Does anyone out there 
know of law schools with good environmental law programs? 

-Thanks-
Alan Glennon
jag9931@rigel.tamu.edu
glennon@tamu.edu
From: bob.kenyon@freddy.ersys.edmonton.ab.ca (Bob Kenyon) 
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
Subject: GAITERS
Date: 24 Jan 93 20:43:00 GMT
Reply-To: bob.kenyon@freddy.ersys.edmonton.ab.ca (Bob Kenyon) 
Distribution: world
Organization: Freddy's Place BBS - Edmonton, AB - 403-456-4241

To: pshannon@iapetus.cv.nrao.edu

PSBK>Has anyone had any experience using gaiters (the Yeti or others)
PSBK>for wading streams?  If I decide to give them a try, where can
PSBK>I order them from?  Any other suggestions for getting across
PSBK>streams quick and dry-footed?

I just use a cheap pair og gaiters, and I find them great for keeping
pant legs dry from morning dew, and mud. They also keep grit, burrs amd
bugs out of my boots.

Mine don't seal water out of my boots, but I do keep them well coated
with repellant.

For crossing stream I'd use one of two methods:

1) Keep the boots on, and put on dry socks to dry the boots out

2) Put on my runners, and let them dry out on the pack.

I'd never go across in bare feet. Too much chance of cutting them on
sharp rocks, or branches. My feet are bad enough, so I have to protect
them at all cost.

/////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////
                       FREDDY'S PLACE BBS
Bob Kenyon             (403)456-4241
Edmonton AB. Canada    USEnet:
                       bob.kenyon@freddy.ersys.edmonton.ab.ca
                       Fidonet: 1:342/14
/////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////


 * SLMR 2.1a * What ever happens. Look as though it were intended to.
               
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
From: sjain@phoenix.Princeton.EDU (Sanjay Jain)
Subject: Re: Himalayan Club?
Originator: news@nimaster
Organization: Princeton University
Date: Wed, 27 Jan 1993 01:20:10 GMT

In article <1993Jan23.212948.17677@Princeton.EDU> sguha@phoenix.Princeton.EDU (Saumyen Guha) writes:
>In article <1jsajuINNbn@hp-col.col.hp.com> chrism@col.hp.com (Chris Magnuson) writes:
>>  Does anyone know of an organization called the Himalayan club?  I 
>>have heard that such a club exists and they publish a newsletter.
>Yes, there is a organization called Himalayan Mountaineering Institute.
>I was a student member until 1989. They train/teach climbing/backpacking
>and organise numerous number of expeditions. Almost all Himalayan
>mountaineers I know of were from this club. But, I am not sure if you 
>can get their news letter from this country. I can try to find out. 
>This will take some time thoough.
>
>>  I would like to have their mailing address, if possible.
>Saumyen Guha
>sguha@phoenix.princeton.edu
>-----------------------------------------------------------------

actually, there is also a (separate and distinct) himalayan club. no
doubt the h.c. and the h.m.i. have "institutional links", but i think
they are distinct entities. the club is the one which puts out a
detailed and comprehensive newsletter (i think quarterly - each issue is
about the size of a book). will see if i can get the address.
regards.

Newsgroups: rec.backcountry,rec.climbing
From: eugene@wilbur.nas.nasa.gov (Eugene N. Miya)
Subject: Re: Bull Fighting (was A-word)
Organization: NAS, NASA Ames Research Center, Moffett Field, CA
Date: Tue, 26 Jan 93 22:16:12 GMT

In article <1993Jan25.233243.26965@ucsu.Colorado.EDU>
marlatt@spot.Colorado.EDU (Stuart W. Marlatt) writes:
>>What would you nominate as the most injurious sport?  I say rodeo riding.
>
>I don't know how various sports stack up statistically regarding injuries.
>I'd imagine mountaineering has a pretty high fatality rate, as would
>cave diving. Football seems to produce a lot of blown knees and separated
>shoulders. Sport climbing has its share of tendonitis and joint problems.

I'm working on the stats for fatalities for the panels.
If you want something in writing, see John Dill's paper in Yosemite Select.
It's harder to count injuries than fatalities.  Yosemite is 2.5 deaths
per year in a population estimated at 25-50K.  John is helping me on this
one.  He's curious too, or maybe he wants a transfer of surplus NASA hardware.

I have had more trouble with skiing injuries than all of climbing.
The velocity has something to do with it.

Been lucky so far and have not yet been thrown by a perfectly good horse.

Watching the GBytes flow by....

--eugene miya, NASA Ames Research Center, eugene@orville.nas.nasa.gov
  Associate Editor, Software and Publication Reviews
  Scientific Programming
  {uunet,mailrus,other gateways}!ames!eugene
Seeking Books to buy:	Bongard, Pattern Recognition
			3 down 1 to go.
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
From: ashley@athena.cs.uga.edu (Greg Ashley)
Subject: Re: a place to go with my father.
Organization: University of Georgia, Athens
Distribution: usa
Date: Mon, 25 Jan 1993 18:26:41 GMT

Organization: University of Virginia
Distribution: usa
Date: Sun, 24 Jan 1993 20:00:26 GMT

After years of claiming that I am crazy, my father hsa decided that he wants 
to share a wilderness experience with me.  We are planning to go somewhere
in mid-July, but don't know where to go.  He could probably not deal with 
carrying a heavy pack for a long time, and canoeing is out, so we are loking
for a good place to day trip from a lodge or something.  Anywhere in the U.S.
is fair game, but we'd prefer someplace in the Rockies.  Any suggestions,    
experiences would be  a great help.  I have to make this a good trip!
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
You should consider Alaska if it is in your budget.  Specifically, I would
recommend Denali National Park.  It is a few hours drive south of
Fairbanks or about 6-7 hours drive north of Anchorage.  It is a 6 million
acre National Park that includes: a lodge, several developed campgrounds,
tremendous backcountry opportunities, abundant wildlife, Denali 
(Mt. Mckinley 20,320 ft.), and much more.  I have only stayed in the 
backcounty and at Wonderlake campground, but the lodge looks nice and probably
isn't too expensive (relative to Alaskan prices which tend to be high).  You
should probably be able to get reservations if you make them soon.  The park
wilderness area is accessible via a 80 mile long road that is not open to
private car traffic.  You can ride any of the park shuttle buses for about $3.
The total roundtrip is about 8-9 hours (you can take shorter trips) and
you'll likely see grizzly bears, caribou, moose, fox, sheep, and possibly
olves.  There are some day hikes, but if you stay at one or more of the
campgrounds located on the interior (I recommend Wonder Lake) there are a lot
of hiking opportunities a few steps away from your tent.  Have a great trip!

Greg Ashley
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
From: allen%asylum.cs.utah.edu@cs.utah.edu (Allen Sanderson)
Subject: Re: A-word and Hemmingway
Date: 22 Jan 93 12:21:39 MST
Organization: University of Utah Computer Science
Distribution: na

In article <1330@xlnt.COM> david@xlnt.com (David Johnson) writes:

>The way I understand it, Hemmingway's quote had nothing to do with
>how physically demanding the activity is.  He said something to the
>effect that "the only true sports are bull fighting, mountain climbing
>and auto racing.  The rest are only games."  I am sure that
>Hemmingway is not claiming marathon running and basketball are not
>physically demanding.  The three sports he claimed to be the only
>true sports are DANGEROUS.  Hemmingway was into macho things.  If
>you life is not in danger then, to him, it is not a sport; it is
>just a game.

I was reminded last night that Hemmingway also wrote about war being
romantic.  Having never been in a war I can't make an objective opinion
so I am not sure what he (Hemmingway) was thinking.

Personally I am of the opinion that each activity has it own physical and
mental demands.  They go together and can not be separated very easily.
A chess match may not seem very physical but the mental strain could
easily drain you physically.  Running an ultra-marathon is physical but
it can also drain you mentally.  So were does that leave things ? Any
activity can be demanding physically as well as mentally. Which activity
is going to be more or less?  NONE - it all depends on the person and
what they are trying to get out of that activity.

So if you think that playing race car driver is more physical than
playing marbles thats fine with me - just remember I can take marbles
and play somewhere else.

Cheers,

Allen R. Sanderson

Salt Lake City, Oootah


"Great spirits have always encounter violent opposition from
mediocre minds."
	- Albert Einstein
From: price@helios.unl.edu (Chad  Price)
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
Subject: Re: Info on Whisper Lite Stoves
Date: 21 Jan 1993 21:30:32 GMT
Organization: University of Nebraska--Lincoln	
NNTP-Posting-Host: helios.unl.edu

scott@hpcvccl.cv.hp.com (Scott Linn) writes:

>Along a not-so-similar line...

>I have heard that unleaded will work in a white gas stove, but the reason
>that stove manufacturers don't recommend it is that white gas (ie Coleman)
>is more finely filtered, and you run the risk of clogging your stove using
>unleaded.

>I have an Optimus 8R I picked up for $1 (yes, that's right), that has a
>built-in cleaning wire.  Could I use unleaded in this stove, and then rely
>on the self-cleaning wire for cleaning after clogging?

I tried... clogging is very rapid  -  I didn't finish cooking a single meal,
never mind more.
--
chad
price@helios.unl.edu
cprice@molecular.unmc.edu
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
From: phr@telebit.com (Paul Rubin)
Subject: Re: Info on Whisper Lite Stoves
Organization: Telebit Corporation; Sunnyvale, CA, USA
	<1993Jan21.200358.27054@hpcvca.cv.hp.com> <30295@optima.cs.arizona.edu>
Date: Fri, 22 Jan 1993 03:42:43 GMT

   >I have an Optimus 8R I picked up for $1 (yes, that's right), that has a
   >built-in cleaning wire.  Could I use unleaded in this stove, and then rely
   >on the self-cleaning wire for cleaning after clogging?
   >

Don't put auto fuel in a camp stove.  Even unleaded fuel has all
kinds of additives which you don't want to get into your food or lungs.
From: hall@vice.ICO.TEK.COM (Hal F Lillywhite)
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
Subject: Re: Avoid Lyme Disease: Go naked?
Date: 28 Jan 93 14:53:01 GMT
Organization: Tektronix Inc., Beaverton, Or.

In article <1993Jan28.024945.77342@ns1.cc.lehigh.edu> mcg2@ns1.cc.lehigh.edu (Marc Gabriel) writes:
>Peter Silsbee (psilsbee@ccwf.cc.utexas.edu) wrote:
>: In article <1993Jan27.160725.18432@ra.msstate.edu> dnewcomb@whale.st.usm.edu (
>Donald R. Newcomb) writes:

>: >deer tics do not tend to bite people at
>: >nudist camps but do bite the same people when not at the camp. 

>I would not bet my health on this *theory*.  Has this theory been put to the
>test?  Has the researcher visited nudest camps and inspected the bodies?

>Sounds like a feeble theory to me.


Sounds to me more like somebody trying to get into a really
interesting research project.  Will NSF fund this?  

(Of course the researcher might get the "Golden Fleece" award.)
From: mcg2@ns1.cc.lehigh.edu (Marc Gabriel)
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
Subject: LymeNet subscriptions
Date: 25 Jan 93 22:06:18 GMT
Organization: Lehigh University


   I submitted the following announcement a few days ago to this board.
Unfortunately, due to technical difficulties, some subscription requests
submitted on Sat. (1-23) and Sun. (1-24) were not processed.  If you
subscribed and did *not* receive confirmation of your subscription from the
list server, please re-subscribe.
   Sorry for the problems.
   The first issue of the LymeNet Newsletter will appear later this week.
   Here is the original announcement...
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Introducing...

******************************************************************************
*                The Lyme Disease Electronic Mail Network                    *
*                               LymeNet                                      *
******************************************************************************

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States.  In 10 short years, this little known bacterial infection has claimed
half a million victims and the number of new patients continues to spiral
upward with no relief in sight.  It is estimated that in 1991, 100,000
Americans contracted this dangerous disease.  If left untreated, LD can cause
permanent nerve, musculoskeletal and cardiac damage.

Unfortunately, many in the medical and political arenas have not given this
epidemic much thought.  Self appointed experts in the academic community have
declared that LD can always be cured with short courses of simple antibiotics.
However, as the number of cases rise, doctors on the front lines are
discovering that LD is more serious that previously suspected, requiring longer
treatment therapies and more complex combinations of medicines.  The battle
lines have been drawn.

And the battles continue at LD conferences, and in the various State
legislatures where insurance companies, terrified at the high cost of LD, are
attempting to short change patients.  Estimates show that the average cost of
treatment for chronic LD patients ranges from $60,000 to $100,000 per patient.

MAILING LIST:
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INTERESTED INDIVIDUALS INCLUDE:
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Newsgroups: rec.backcountry