HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: kirk@hpcc01.corp.hp.com (Kirk Lindstrom)
Newsgroups: rec.windsurfing
Subject: Re: Going Upwind Again
Date: 12 Aug 92 17:54:35 GMT
Organization: Shredding the water of SF Bay, HP-OCD

>Yes, I know we had this discussion before, but I would like to get a
>snapshot of concensus:
>
Wonder how much out answers change as we get better.....

>QUESTION:
>
>For a fully powered short board going upwind, with the pilot in the harness
>and the straps, which way should you move the mast to improve upwind performance?
With all else being equal (which it never is) moving the mast 1" forward
should increase wetted surface area which slows you down but I believe that
when you rail the board it allows it to track better upwind though slower.
I think this holds true until you are "really good" (TM).  Rob H. discussed
on the net as well as in the parking lot keeping the board flat and your
speed up to go upwind.  Sometimes I can do this.  You do need a modern
slalom board, good race sails and a blade fin to get maximum benefit upwind.
To really fly upwind, you also need to sail overpowered  to the point that it
is scary going on normal beam reaches.  I was just getting to the point in
my progression that Rob recommended I work on sailing way overpowered next
(when not sailing waves at 3rd).

>Last time we had lots of divergent answers, mostly because each respondent 
>had a different scenario in mind. So please keep it to short board fully 
>powered technique.
>
Ability and equipment also matter.  Fin length and style is very
important as is board shape.  As you get better, you can go upwind with
a bit shorter fin (probably since you can keep more board speed so the
smaller fin still works).  For me on my 8'11" CS board, I use a 15.5"
soft blade fin for my 6.1 and a 14.5" soft blade for my 5.6 SailWorks
Race.  I think I could use fins one inch shorter if they didn't have the
twist (i.e.  Rainbow or True Ames).  ANyway, I started with the 14.5"
fin as that was the longest ASD had and what Rob and ASD said I should
use for my new 8'11" board which is optimised for my 5.6 (maybe a 5.7
Waddel Race to be precise).  I found that I couldn't go upwind very well
with my 6.1 SW Race, but it worked great with my 5.6 (as they said).  I
went back a few weeks later and lo-and-behold ASD had longer fins (I
guess I wasn't the only one having the problem).  I bought the 15.5"
blade and it worked great with my 6.1.

After I broke my leg, I lent my 15.5" blade to Walt so he could compare it
to his stiff fin with his 9'1" ASD CS board with his 6.2 Windwing.  I haven't
heard yet how they compare (maybe Walt will read this and post it for
everyone).  Walt did say that it really was "only" 15.25" rather than the
15.5" as labeled.

>Jim Munro

One more thing, I believe I can go upwind with a smaller fin in flat
water since it is easier to keep the board flat and board-speed up.

Kirk out
8'8" Challange Flex, 8'11" & 9'3" ASD epoxy, 9'9" Velocity & 11'6" Malibu 
Wt 213#, Ht. 6'0", Usually sail on SF Bay, Cailf.  (kirk@hpocia.sj.hp.com)
From: bardet@CS.NYU.EDU (Laurent Bardet)
Newsgroups: rec.windsurfing
Subject: Re: baltic sea
Date: 19 Aug 92 18:34:38 GMT
Organization: New York University


In Article 7073 of rec.windsurfing, David Sands (ds@doc.ic.ac.uk) said:
> Here in the UK I sail all year, but I don't often go out in air
> temperatures below 7C (not counting wind chill). This means that I am
> limited to sailing S to W winds (which are much warmer).

    In Brittany (W of France) where I have spent the last three years,
it is the same. It doesn't depend on the sea temperature which stays
between I guess 9 and 11 C in winter. But when the wind heads to NE,
weather is magnificent, it is sometimes difficult to resist. But I
can't below 5-10 C, I tried once, it was 5C. I don't wear any boots,
gloves and hood, I don't mind if my feet are freezing, but the "iron
forehead" and the freezy fingers are very painful (it can take several
painful minutes to recover the sensitivity in the fingers). This
winter, we had NE wind after three weeks of calm. Some crazy guys went
to windsurf, it was freezing all night long and part of the morning,
even by the sea.

    I guess it must be worse by the Baltic sea ! Now some questions:

    How confortable are the gloves and hoods ? Can we hear with
neoprene hood ? How slippy are the hands on the wishbone with gloves ?
Have you got prefered brands ? Since I don't own a van, I change my
clothe outside before to rush into the car. An important question is
how much time do you need to take off all the sucker stuff after the
navigation ?

Sorry if I ask already answered questions.

--Laurent

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
////  Laurent Bardet       //    3rd year student of ENS of Telecommunications
///  research assistant   //                             of Brest (France)
//  New York University  //  I'm searching for a position in Computer Science
/  bardet@cs.nyu.edu    //   located in the Bay (of course, windsurf WE only !)
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: henrik@mpci.llnl.gov (Henrik Klagges)
Newsgroups: rec.windsurfing
Subject: 1991 Tiga 260 Slalom $xxx 8-)
Date: 17 Aug 92 17:28:47 GMT

Bay area. Thing is fast & jiby. Fair price.

Cheers, 
	Henrik


Newsgroups: rec.windsurfing
From: rah@cis.ohio-state.edu (Michael Rah)
Subject: Re: Transitions Boards
Originator: rah@apple.cis.ohio-state.edu
Organization: The Ohio State University, Department of Computer and Information Science
Distribution: usa
Date: Fri, 21 Aug 1992 15:18:23 GMT


I own an O'brien Excellerator (10'4") and I love it.  I couldn't really afford
a bic Samba(10'6") which was my first choice ,but I think I got a good deal for
my money.

I feel the transition board was the right purchase.  I had been sailing for
2 years on a friend's longboard and I wanted to buy my own board.  The wind
conditions around here during most  of the summer are a lot less than
I would like, usually 5-15 mph on most days.  In the spring and fall the 
winds pick up to around 10-25 on most days with good days blowing 20-25+.
Because of the mostly light winds I haven't had many opportunities to 
waterstart.  Basically I have to uphaul to get moving or sit in the water
and wait for a puff, which may never come.

If wind conditions around where you sail are better than mine then maybe a
short board would suit you, but I believe you would be more comfortable 
with a trans. and I think your wife would be more confident too.

A friend of mine also has an O'brien excellerator.  He is about the same size
as you are and had been sailing for three years on a longboard. He tells me
he loves his board too.  He didn't know how to use a harness either before,
but when he got the O'brien he also got a harness and learned to use it.

I'm not sure if this will help but it's my two cents.


_____________________________________________________________________________________
Michael Rah
THE Ohio State University    Columbud, Ohio
rah@cis.ohio-state.edu
From: jmunro@wyse.wyse.com (Jim Munro x2497)
Newsgroups: rec.windsurfing
Subject: Re: Holier than thou, was Re:Fins-Spins etc.
Date: 17 Aug 92 16:47:18 GMT
Organization: Wyse Technologies San Jose, Ca

In article <3706@sol.deakin.OZ.AU> ludwig@cm.deakin.OZ.AU (Ludwig Omachen) writes:
>PS more on the same topic :-),
>
>>From: jmunro@wyse.wyse.com (Jim Munro x2497)
>>Newsgroups: rec.windsurfing
>>
>>I really hate to see surfing attitudes extend to windsurfing and I also hate
>>to see flaming going on in this group. It has been exceedingly well mannered so far..
>
>Why flame the surfing community then ?

Because, as a surfer myself, I am well aware of how surfing works:

You paddle out and wait for waves. While you are hanging around, virtually no one
is friendly or sociable. The young hot shots take delight in hogging the waves, and
I have often seen agression and fights break out over minor incidents.

As a result, I stick to the mellower waves, where the guys are a little older, and a
little more polite. There is certainly a surfer phenomenon which is clearly
linked to testosterone levels and which is reflected in the generally aggressive
and unfriendly attitude at most surf spots, even the uncrowded ones.

I refered to the recent dialog in alt.surfing where there was serious discussion on
whether it is OK to try to stick your fins in someone's back for dropping in
on you, especially if he is some old guy on a long board. Agressive?.... no, just
normal for sufing, but not thank god for windsurfing.
>
>>From: jmunro@wyse.wyse.com (Jim Munro x2497)
>>Newsgroups: rec.windsurfing
>>Subject: Re: Fins - Spins - Booms - Boards - and Boo
>>
>>Children! That's enough! Let's stop insulting each other. This group is beginning
>>to sound like alt.skateboard!
>>
>>Jim Munro
>
>Ditto for alt.skateboard.

I'll retract on this one. However, skateboarders are harrassed by most city
governments to the point where they have a well developed 'us against them' attitude.
Skateboard mentality is a 'rebel' mentality. Surfer mentality is fiercely independent.

It is only among windurfers that I have found a friendly, welcoming attitude at
most locations.

The reason? age and maturity. Most teenagers can't afford serious windsurfing. 

Jim Munro
Newsgroups: rec.windsurfing
From: sfroelic@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (Stephan E Froelich)
Subject: NEED CONTACTS IN CORPUS CRISTI, TX
Organization: The Ohio State University
        Last time I posted this, my mailbox was broken so here it goes...
Distribution: usa
Date: Sun, 23 Aug 1992 02:22:08 GMT

     I'm moving to Corpus Cristi Tx, where I don't know a soul.
        If I could talk to someone from there before I go
          it would help a lot ... I need to know what
             companies there are to work for, what
               there is to do (when I'm not sailing)
                 How to access a net...I'll miss
                   it otherwise. If anyone
                    knows some fun people
                      there, I need to
                       meet or talk
                         them
                          PLE
                           A
                           S
                           E\
                           H
                           E
                           L
                           P

Thanks in advance !!!
Stefan
From: bob@elan.Elan.COM (Bob Taylor)
Newsgroups: rec.windsurfing
Subject: Moving Equipment
Date: 10 Aug 92 15:08:58 GMT
Organization: Elan Computer Group, Inc., Mountain View, CA

Does anyone have any tips for the best way to package your equipment
for taking on an Airplane?

bob
bob@elan.com
Newsgroups: rec.windsurfing
From: billmart@netcom.com (Bill Martinson)
Subject: Re: HELP!:  Carpal Tunnel Syndrome
Date: Fri, 14 Aug 92 03:45:06 GMT
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services  (408 241-9760 guest) 

In article <19920813121151CSMSETS@MVS.OAC.UCLA.EDU> CSMSETS@MVS.OAC.UCLA.EDU (CSMSETS) writes:
>In article <l8l2uvINNpk5@exodus.Eng.Sun.COM>, on 13 Aug 1992 16:20:47 GMT,
>srnelson@speedsail.Eng.Sun.COM (Scott R. Nelson) writes:
>
>>
>>  ...Stuff Deleted...
I remember reading an article several years ago that said to refrain from
drinking fluids before going to bed and make sure while you are sleeping 
to keep your hands flat.  If your tissue is full of fluids they swell and
if your hands are clenched while you sleep it adds additional stress
to the nerves in question.

Another important thing to concentrate on is not gripping the boom.  Put 
the majority of the stress on your harness and a light touch with your 
hands.  One way to accomplish this is to sail with your thumbs resting
on the boom and holding the boom with just your finger tips.

Bill Martinson
US-940

Newsgroups: rec.windsurfing
From: krueger@ssd.comm.mot.com (Kevin Krueger)
Subject: Conditions in Cancun in October	
Reply-To: krueger@ssd.comm.mot.com
Organization: Motorola LMPS
Date: Thu, 20 Aug 1992 16:41:03 GMT

I hear a lot about Cancun as a vacation paradise, but how is the windsurfing
there ?  I think I'll be going there in October.  Any recommendations on 
hotels and places that rent equipment ?  I'd like to rent from a place with
modern (91 or 92) shortboards and sails.  Thanks.

Kevin
krueger@ssd.comm.mot.com
From: dan@kronos.com (Dan Driscoll)
Newsgroups: rec.windsurfing
Subject: Re: Light wind waterstarts
Date: 17 Aug 92 18:04:04 GMT
Organization: Kronos Inc. / Waltham, MA
Disclaimer: This posting is a personal opinion and not that of Kronos Inc.

Because of the idiocy of the forecasters lately, I have found myself trying
to sail in light wind recently. So I have been playing around with Light Wind
Waterstarts. It's actually a pretty cool feeling to waterstart when there is
apparently not enough wind.

The one thing I do that hasn't been mentioned yet is hold the rig by the sail
with my other hand rather than the boom. So I have a hand on the mast midway
between the boom and mastfoot and the other hand gripping the sailcloth out
on the foot of the sail. I then throw the whole rig up into the very light
wind. The wind fills it and the momentum will cause it to almost fall right
over the board to leeward, or it may drift forward, or aft. It is at this point
that you should try to stand, making use of this momentary force. As you are
standing, you can take your hand off the sailcloth and reach up and grab the 
boom and further pull yourself up. Also, it's very key to pull the board under
you with your hamstrings before trying to stand. 

-dan@kronos.com
Newsgroups: rec.windsurfing
From: stu@otop23.oto.dec.com (Stuart MacKay)
Subject: Re: Light wind waterstarts
Reply-To: stu@otop23.enet.dec.com
Organization: Digital Equipment Corporation, Ottawa Ontario, Canada
Date: Tue, 18 Aug 1992 13:59:12 GMT


> The one thing I do that hasn't been mentioned yet is hold the rig by the sail
> with my other hand rather than the boom. So I have a hand on the mast midway
> between the boom and mastfoot and the other hand gripping the sailcloth out
> on the foot of the sail.

I too do it this way.  Unfortunately, a problem can arise that you can start
to rip the hem (?) of the foot of the sail so be carefull that you hold the
sail delicately and not grab it like a boom.

I also sort of enjoy uphauling in light wind.  While this age old art is some-
what akin to tacking or even railriding (remember those),  I find it a very
good exercise in balance.

I sail a bic alto (8'4") and am about 155 lbs, and find it a lot more of a 
challenge and rewarding being able to uphaul and get going concidering the 
water is between knee and waist by the time I start moving!

Regards,
Stu MacKay
Ottawa, Canada
Newsgroups: rec.windsurfing
From: navid@synoptics.com (Navid Razavi)
Subject: Re: Going Upwind Again
Reply-To: navid@synoptics.com
Organization: Synoptics Inc. Santa Clara, California.
Date: Tue, 18 Aug 1992 18:45:57 GMT


I  need some help in choosing a right fin for my 340 Fanatic Board.   I need a fin  to go up wind easily
and be able to  jibe(maneuverable) at Coyote Pnt.
I have seen the following brand of Fins in Windsurf Express:

1) Fin Works.
2) Maui Design
3) Hyper..(sp?)

They all have 10 different models. The price for the fin is from 29$ to 49$.
Could any one tell me which brand and model I should choose?
Thanks in advance
Navid Razavi
From: bw@TorreyPinesCA.ncr.com (Bruce White 3807)
Subject: Re: Sails for light wind
Organization: NCR (Torrey Pines Development Center)
Disclaimer: This posting does not neccessarily reflect the opinions of NCR.
Distribution: usa
Date: Tue, 18 Aug 92 18:38:43 GMT

At the ABK camp, the instructors recommended fully cambered 
sails for light wind. 

For general all-around use, they like slalom sails with one or two external 
cambers.
--- Bruce
Newsgroups: rec.windsurfing
From: wolf@leland.Stanford.EDU (Andy Wolfsberg)
Subject: Re: Transition Board or Short Board???
Organization: DSG, Stanford University, CA 94305, USA
Date: Tue, 18 Aug 92 16:22:40 GMT

In article <4310478@hpcc01.corp.hp.com> short@hpcc01.corp.hp.com (Nancy Short) writes:
>   i would go for the short board option. get something around 9'8" and
>floaty and resign yourself to spending some time paying your learning
>
>  <Schtuff deleted>
>
 I think I told you that you would quickly tire of the transition board.
Well, Three weeks ago my wife learned to waterstart on our Tiga 10"6'.
She has since sailed 2 times.
She's DONE!  
She was out riding some serious chop at Sterling Suites
on Sunday.  Now we need a short board for her, or else I'll
never get to use mine again.

Anyone have a cheap (<$200) ~9'  board for sale to get us through
the season?  We don't know where we'll be next year, so we have to
watch the investments.

Thread to come:
This may be of interest for those who still haven't settled down.

Where else in the country is there decent windsurfing besides SF 
and the Gorge. No offense to those of you in places with good wind,
I just don't know.  We're primarily considering the Western states
and prefer an area with affordable housing.  

  - New Mexico has some strong possibilities jobwise and
close to "home".  Anybody ever hear of any boardsailing there?

Happy Sails, Sales, and Swells,
Andy
From: rafael@flash.ATC.Olivetti.Com (Ralph Grundler)
Newsgroups: rec.windsurfing
Subject: Re: Baja Vanning Tour
Date: 13 Aug 92 16:52:39 GMT
X-Newsreader: Tin 1.1 PL4


	How can I say this with out writing a book! Baha is an adventure waitimgfor you!  I've been to baha many times and think driving and camping along the
way is the way to do it.  The drive is long to the nearest winter sailing spot, but the sceinery is beautiful along the way.  The best place to get info is
AAA or a book store.  First (duh) you need a map of baha! Another helpful item
is "The Baha Adventure Book".  This book is not much for windsurfing but will
give you other things to do(instead of playing volleyball) and a very good
discription of the terain you will encounter.  

	The three best places are Punta Areana, Los Barilles, and punta Chivato.
Punta Areana is a semi protected area located about 30 miles south of Mulahe' in the bahia de conception.  This area is a beach where you can camp(no facilities) and they charge about 2-4 bucks a night.  This is the closest location to the US and is about a 14hr drive from San Deigo. (I drive some what slow and never at night!). Los Barilles is about 8 hours farther and the famous winter hangout.
The sailing there is also good and you can camp in the trailer parks which have showers (I don't remember the price) or stay in the beach front hotels.  A few hours farther is Punta Chivato.  This place can realy blow. I stayed there for two days and the wind was 65mph the whole time day and night! I wanted to stay longer but my girlfriend made me leave because if you got out of the car for very long you would get sand blasted! (needless to say however we broke up). 

	This is just brief intro to the stuff in Baha however you can get more 
info at any Library.  A few words of advice!  Plan you gas consumption very carfully.  Its not the US and quit often gas stations are out of gas! Bring at least five gallons of extra gas.  This is espeacally true during x-mas and easter.
Also bring pleanty of water.  It is also best to drive with caution and you'll
see what I mean when you get there. Good luck and have fun! 

Ralph
From: eaa02@parakeet.amdahl.com (Earl Armas)
Newsgroups: rec.windsurfing
Subject: Re: HELP!:  Carpal Tunnel Syndrome
Date: 12 Aug 92 22:23:36 GMT

In article <1992Aug12.183954.3515@leland.Stanford.EDU>, edwilson@leland.Stanford.EDU (Edward Wilson) writes:
|> I'm beginning to notice symptoms of what I think is carpal tunnel syndrome.
|> 
|>  - My index and middle fingers on each hand sometimes feel numb and 
|>    tingly, especially after a hard day of windusurfing, like I had 
|>    yesterday at Coyote Pt. (4 solid hours of 4.8)

Yes, a most excellent day at the Point.  I sailed for 3 1/2 hrs myself.
For the first time, my left elbow was feeling some tingling (minor pain)
It kinda felt that it was because of continued excessive force used to
keep my arms straight (I was practicing pointing alot).  This got me a 
little scared, so I think Ill take a little break.

|> I think it's in its early stages, and I'd like to nip this thing in 
|> the bud, so does anyone out there have advice on how I can stop this?
|> Reducing time on the water is not out of the question, but I'd prefer
|> something else (perhaps reducing time in front of the computer, but this
|> might be difficult to explain to my boss).

I also sit in front of a computer and sail at least 2-3 times a week.  Our
company is in the process of sending everyone in our organization to an
"Ergonomics" Seminar.  At this seminar, they gave us this "Thera-putty"
(with exercise instructions) that we are suppose to use frequently to 
"exercise" our wrist, fingers, and hand.  They claim this is a preventive
measure for CTS.  I have been using it but cant tell if it is helping...
  
-- 
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
| eaa02@ras.amdahl.com
| Earl Armas
| Amdahl Corporation
| 1250 East Arques Avenue (M/S 148)
| P.O. Box 3470
| Sunnyvale, CA 94088-3470
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: peter@ski.austin.ibm.com (Peter Jeffe 512.838.4019)
Newsgroups: rec.windsurfing
Subject: Re: Moving Equipment
Date: 19 Aug 92 02:22:00 GMT
Organization: The Kernel Group, Inc.

In article <1992Aug15.213850.25513@cs.tulane.edu> gb0wbff@vm.tcs.tulane.edu writes:
>In article <KNABE.92Aug14133534@acrab44.rec> knabe@ECRC.DE (Fritz Knabe)
>writes:
>>Don't try the cardboard and tape route -- I did once and ended up getting a
>>hole in my previously pristine board :-(

If you use enough bubble-wrap or alternative padding, it's possible to
avoid damage, and even a padded board bag doesn't provide what I consider
to be sufficient padding all by itself.  I traveled with an E-Rock and
an 8'3" wave board from Australia-New Zealand-Fiji-Maui-Texas with no
significant damage, and on our budget all I could afford was bubble
wrap.  That includes every mode of transport I can think of, including
planes large and small (they had to remove seats to fit the boards),
public buses, trucks, boats, and cars.

On the other hand, it was a royal pain to always have to find new bubble
wrap to replace the damaged wrap, and tape the damn things up before every
hop.  But it can be done, and it all depends on the time/hassle/money
tradeoff.  Personally, I just ordered a coffin bag from Visual Speed, and
I can't wait to throw my boards (in their own travel bags), rigs, and a
half-dozen sails into the thing and zip it up--all in the time it used to
take me to find the packing tape.  Of course, I'm no longer on a 5-month
trip on $30 a day :-).

>US Air charged me $150 round trip for one board bag (they don't care whats 
>in it) and a quiver bag (New Orleans to NC).  It would have been only $80 round
>trip for just the board bag.

I've paid anything from $0 to $75 for monstrous piles of equipment that
I could hardly carry.  My only hints are to pick the person that looks
the most competent, and/or the one that looks the friendliest.  Some
people tell me that they slip the curbside check-in person a twenty and
have them do it for "no charge", but I've never tried that.

-- 
peter jeffe  peter@aixwiz.austin.ibm.com