HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: b-grant@nwu.edu (Barry Grant)
Subject: Re: FYI: Lovely Music....
Followup-To: rec.music.classical
Organization: Northwestern University
Date: Tue, 29 Dec 1992 20:07:32 GMT

In response to Edgar Erwin's questions about my post on Improvement:

There is a complete recording of Perfect Lives, 3 CD set from Lovely. The 1
CD recording with Tyranny and Ashley is called, I think, Private Lives. The
complete opera also has Tyranny with a couple of "singers" joining Ashley.
I think Tyranny plays all the music--piano and synthesized sounds.
 
Tyranny isn't on Improvement. The cast includes Ashley, Joan LaBarbara,
another fellow named Ashley, Thomas Bruckner(?), and a few others. I don't
remember reading that any musicians were named. It all sounds synthesized
and is pretty spare. Judging from the cover photo and credits to a costume
designer, it seems to be a "traditional" opera. If I remember correctly,
Imp is part of the final part of Ashley' s opera trilogy, Now Eleanor's
Idea.

"Do the words tell a story in the  conventional sense, or is it like PL, in
that the words paint pictures, still  lives, so to speak?" This is hard to
answer. Like PL, Imp has a "plot": The opera starts with Don leaving Linda
at a public restroom, and then more or less follows Linda's life for a
while. She meets a man, has an unpleasant experience in a restaurant, drops
her purse, meets Eleanor, gets a letter from her son, thinks about her
life...  Is that a plot? To me, here I'm getting beyond my limits of
expression, Imp is less poetic,  less mysterious, and more literal than PL.



Barry Grant
Northwestern Univesity
Evanston, Illinois
b-grant@nwu.edu
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
From: curtis@sun1.aer.com (Curtis Heisey)
Subject: Re: Ozawa
Organization: Atmospheric Environmental Research Inc., Cambridge, MA USA
	<CURTIS.92Dec23074412@sun1.aer.com>
	<RLK.92Dec23095322@underprize.think.com>
Date: Wed, 23 Dec 1992 20:10:26 GMT

In article <RLK.92Dec23095322@underprize.think.com> rlk@underprize.think.com (Robert Krawitz) writes:
   <Ozawa bashing deleted>

   Quite honestly, I haven't figured this one out.

Okay, some specific examples of how Ozawa conducting lacks.

My basic complaint is that the BSO plays very unevenly under Ozawa's
hand, i.e. strings come in at different times, the brass doesn't sound
cohesive or confident, and the like.  The exception is the string bass
section which plays extremely cohesively, like a single unit.  Many of
the individual players are exceptional, as witnessed in solo passages,
but the players as a whole ensemble often play raggedly.  I don't think
that this is a matter of taste, nor a BSO problem, because these
technical playing issues often dissappear with guest conductors 
(For example, The Brahams under Haitink sounded very cohesive).

My taste-related complaint is that Ozawa is just plain dull,
especially in the Baroque/Early Classical repertoire, which too often
sounds like a grind through of the notes.   

I do think that Ozawa does a good job with the contemporary repertoire,
such as Saxton's *The Creation*.  I must admit that I've only heard Ozawa
when he leads the BSO, and I haven't heard the BSO on tour with Ozawa, so I 
can't judge Ozawa in his entirety as a conductor.

But ... Zinman's Boston SO Mahler First had more life, Rattle's Mahler Seventh 
burned the house down,  Maacal's someting-or-another exhibited more spontaneity, 
and Lutoslawski with his own works showed more sensitivity than Ozawa.


--
Curt Heisey     curtis@aer.com
From: jde0@ns1.cc.lehigh.edu (JON DAVID EISENBERG)
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
Subject: Havergal Brian Symphony
Date: 22 Dec 92 07:48:18 GMT
Organization: Lehigh University

A couple years ago I read a posting about a synphony by British composer
Havergal Brian (sp?).  The name of the piece was symphony #1 "the GOTHIC".  I
have looked at every store I could find, but there was no knowledge of such a
composer, let alone the piece itself.  I would appreciate any information
about recordings/performances that are available.

                    Thanx (in advance),
                    Jon Eisenberg
                    Lehigh University

                    
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
From: dbarker@spang.Camosun.BC.CA (Deryk Barker)
Subject: Re: Ozawa
Organization: Camosun College, Victoria B.C, Canada
X-Newsreader: Tin 1.1 PL4
Date: Wed, 23 Dec 1992 18:32:07 GMT

sampson@nosc.mil (Charles H. Sampson) writes:
:      In a recent thread on Greatest Living Conductors, one respondent
: placed Ozawa near the very bottom of his list.  I have to agree.  I
: never cease to be amazed at the breadth of styles that he manages to
: mangle.  Yet he continues on, conducting all over the world.  Clearly
: there are some Ozawa fans out there.  What kind of music does he do
: well?  Are there any particular recordings that show his "talent" in
: a favorable light?

The only recording of his I've ever enjoyed is the 1968 Toronto SO
Turangalila on RCA - long out of print.

--
Real:  Deryk Barker, Computer Science Dept., Camosun College, Victoria B.C.
Email: (dbarker@spang.camosun.bc.ca)
Phone: +1 604 370 4452
From: potoole@maths.tcd.ie (Peter O'Toole)
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
Subject: Re: Lost Masterpieces
Date: 21 Dec 92 13:52:32 GMT
Organization: Dept. of Maths, Trinity College, Dublin, Ireland.

>In article <1992Dec17.225720.4602@fid.morgan.com> apter@fid.morgan.com (Steve Apter) writes:
>
>>New thread:  Presumably great works which were, or might have been, 
>>lost or destroyed.
>>Does anyone have a sense of what might be out there, lying around in
>>someone's attic, or buried in the Vatican archives?

I'll throw these in:

Godowsky: paraphrase on Strauss' Blue Danube for piano ( 2 hands).
Left in Vienna with some other stuff, current whereabouts unknown.

Godowsky: Piano Sonata [ no.3 ]
No.1 was an early work which was not published. No.2 is the sonata in Em
from 1911. No.3 is in MS somewhere and is surely more mature.   

Alkan: Symphony in B minor.
An early(ish) work for orchestra, never performed or published.

Joplin: Operetta "Guest of Honour"
Lost in the US mail! Left in a trunk somewhere, possibly.

The above may not be masterpieces, but are little musical grails for me.

Peter O'Toole,
Trinity College Dublin.
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
From: s9874203@titan.ucc.umass.edu (s9874203)
Subject: Re: Greatest living conductors
Organization: University of Massachusetts, Amherst
Date: Mon, 21 Dec 1992 19:10:59 GMT

In article <1992Dec18.015111.13047@news.columbia.edu> rsm13@cunixa.cc.columbia.edu (Ravi S Moorthy) writes:
>In article <BzF575.C2C@news.cso.uiuc.edu> bjh42543@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (Brian J. Haag) writes:
>>fernande@cps.msu.edu (Jose Roberto Fernandez) writes:
>>
>>>Inspired by the recent thread about greatest living pianists, I
>>>propose another thread on the "greatest living conductors."  So,
>>>who do you think are the greatest living (or recently died) 
>>>conductors?  I nominate the following for the top tier:
>>
>>>*Karajan, Solti, Giulini, and *Bernstein
>>>(additional possibilities being Abbado, Haitink, and Maazel)
>>>(*-died recently)
>>
>>Giulini is good, but I really don't think that he belongs in the same category
>>with the other three that you mentioned.  Also, I would nominate the fast-
>>rising Simon Rattle for the second tier along with Giulini.
>
>I would add 
>1)  Michael Tilson Thomas to it.  I liked his Prokofiev's
>    Symphony no 5
>
>2)  Pinnock, Ashkenazy, Dutoit, Boulez, Jarvi and Leppard.
>                                                                       
>There are other names also but I would stick to these.
>
>Ravi

How about Zubin Mehta?
From: dbarker@spang.Camosun.BC.CA (Deryk Barker)
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
Subject: Re: Furtwaengler on Toscanini
Date: 30 Dec 92 19:20:39 GMT
Organization: Camosun College, Victoria B.C, Canada
X-Newsreader: Tin 1.1 PL4

bwalsh@math.rutgers.edu (Bertram Walsh) writes:
: Re just a couple of the more egregious things in Chris Ischay's post
: on the Furtwaengler letter:
: 
: >I don't have any references here at work, but my recollection is that
: >Furtwangler had reason to be jealous of or inimical toward Toscanini.
: >And he was not the only conductor.  Competition was not unknown back
: >then, and I think Toscanini horned out a few Big Names in his time.
: 
: Hey, you think competition ever was unknown?

I seem to recall the date on the letter being 1924, so it would be
before the infamous NYPSO debacle of 1927/8 in which Olin Downes and
the 'society' types who ran the symphony society muscled out
Furtwaengler (and Mengelberg) in favour of Toscanini.

I am still amazed at what those seasons must have been like, with
those 3 at the helm of the orchestra. Unimaginable today.

--
Real:  Deryk Barker, Computer Science Dept., Camosun College, Victoria B.C.
Email: (dbarker@spang.camosun.bc.ca)
Phone: +1 604 370 4452
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
From: "alexander inglis" <alexander.inglis@canrem.com>
Subject: maria callas video sugges
Reply-To: "alexander inglis" <alexander.inglis@canrem.com>
Organization: Canada Remote Systems
Distribution: rec
Date: 27 Dec 92 16:49:40 EST

BK>But of course, most of us will think of the famous film of Act II from
  >Tosca in the Zeffirelli Covent Garden production (1964) -- which isn't avail
  >commercially.

Isn't there a fairly widely broadcast version of the Vissi d'arte scene
(or is it the whole act?) with Callas and Gobbi from the Ed Sullivan
Show? Or is this the Covent Garden I'm thinking of?

Alexander Inglis  |  InterNet: alexander.inglis@canrem.com
Toronto,  Canada  |  CompuServe: 70307,20     BIX: aingli
--
Canada Remote Systems  - Toronto, Ontario
World's Largest PCBOARD System - 416-629-7000/629-7044
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
From: dbrooks@osf.org (David Brooks)
Subject: Re: Saxophone, use of - : list v1.0
Followup-To: rec.music.classical
Reply-To: dbrooks@osf.org (David Brooks)
Organization: Open Software Foundation
Date: Wed, 23 Dec 1992 20:22:48 GMT

jwenger@ulci06.unil.ch () writes:
> The earliest piece I could
>locate is the Berlioz, performed in 1844 (The saxophone was invented in the
>early 1840's, patented in l846).

My 1981 _Guinness Book of Music_ claims the prize for J. G. Kastner's
oratorio "The Last King of Judah".  It also gives 1844, so it must have
been close.
-- 
David Brooks					dbrooks@osf.org
Open Software Foundation			uunet!osf.org!dbrooks
Shine out, fair sun, with all your heat!  Black winter freezes to his seat...
The boneless fish close quaking lies...the stars in icicles arise!
From: bwalsh@math.rutgers.edu (Bertram Walsh)
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
Subject: Re: Opinions sought: Beethoven's Late String Quartets
Date: 28 Dec 92 15:32:15 GMT
Organization: Rutgers Univ., New Brunswick, N.J.

>John Grabowski posts:

>Possibly my favorite recording in my entire collection is of the Op.
>131 String Quartet transcribed for an entire string orchestra.
>Conducted by Bernstein, with the Vienna Phil., it's not the textbook
>way to do it, but it is nonetheless, a stunning musical experience.

My impression was diametrically opposite to this one: I thought it
worked about as well as using a chorus of sixty-odd distinguished
actors as the protagonist in _Hamlet_.  Oh, what rogues and peasant
slaves are we!  Instead of four focused single lines, you get some-
thing perilously close to Mantovani (anybody remember him?).  This is
all right as an exercise in virtuosity -- Revelli had the whole first-
clarinet section of the Michigan band play the polonaise of the second
v. Weber concerto, too, just to show how good they were (and he was)
-- but the quartet timbre and intimacy are part of Beethoven's concep-
tion, and you're doing enormous violence to that conception when you
put huge string sections on those lines.  (The Mendelssohn octet does
not suffer so much when conductors do the same thing to it, because
there are already so many people around with one instrument per line
8-).)

BTW, to Deryk Barker's enthusiastic mention of the pre-WWII recordings
of the Beethoven quartets by the Busch quartet, please add the pre-WWII
Budapest recording of Op 131.  While I was an undergraduate I must
have contributed mightily to wearing out the 78-rpm recordings of this
performance in alma mama's music library.

Bertram Walsh  Mathematics Dep't  Rutgers University New Brunswick NJ 08903
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
From: conrad@brahms.udel.edu (Jon Conrad)
Subject: Re: Valkyrie recordings
Organization: University of Delaware
Date: Wed, 30 Dec 1992 22:28:19 GMT

In article <1992Dec27.040241.6728@walter.bellcore.com> hsong@ardour.bellcore.com (G. Hugh Song) writes:

>I'd like to buy a CD set for Valkyrie.   I found that Jon and others 
>omitted a comment about this recording except the comment about Vickers.   
>Or I must have missed an article in which you wrote a review on this 
>recording.   What is your opinion about Leinsdorf recordin in comparison 
>to others such as Solti's?

My own opinion is that Leinsdorf's Walkeure isn't outstanding.  The
blame would mostly be shared between him (sounds like an efficient
get-the-job-done-and-go-home kind of "interpretation," and the London
Symphony sounds overbright and brassy under him) and the recording,
which does less than justice to the voices of Nilsson and London.
Outstanding features are Vickers (pace Ken Sherrill), Gorr, and a good
Covent Garden team of Valkyries.  Nilsson's great, but she was better
yet for Solti.  Preferable recordings of the opera include Solti,
Furtwangler (his studio recording), Karajan, Levine, Haitink, Goodall,
and Janowski.

Jon Alan Conrad
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
From: potter@movies.enet.dec.com (Alan T Potter)
Subject: Re: The BEST finale!
Organisation: VMS Engineering, DEC, Scotland
Organization: Digital Equipment Corporation
Date: Tue, 22 Dec 1992 15:51:55 GMT


broken@venison.bae.bellcore.com (Tony Brokenborough) writes...
> 
>Oh please shut up !!!!!!
> 
>99% of the people on the net HATE's Bruckner's music.

I take it that this is a joke (the `Broken' in the username kind of gives it
away).  Or is this person just exceptionally immature?

Happy Christmas, anyway!

/atp

+-----------------------------------------------------------------------------+
| Alan.Potter@edo.mts.dec.com   | My opinions are mine, not DEC's 0506 423307 |
| NTS: GM7GLJ@GB7EDN.#77.GBR.EU |  VMS Engineering, Livingston, UK  EH54 6AG  |
+------------- The bridge is crossed, so stand and watch it burn -------------+
From: rika@informix.com (Rika Tsitsinia)
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
Subject: Re: CD prices
Date: 29 Dec 92 05:24:29 GMT
Organization: Informix Software, Inc.

In article <1992Dec24.191243.9008@jhunix.hcf.jhu.edu> velde2@jhunix.hcf.jhu.edu (Francois Velde) writes:
>
>I just want to comment on Chris Brewster's comments about the prices 
>of CDs.  He posted a text by R. Goiffon, the president of Harmonia 
>Mundi USA trying to convince consumers to tolerate even higher prices 
>for classical CDs.
>
>Let's give the man a break.

	First of all, it's a woman: Rene Goiffon, President of the
    USA branch of HM, and a well known personality, I thought,
    among record buyers, especially vinyl junkies.

>
>Otherwise, I agree with most of what Chris Brewster wrote, and I certainly
>find Goiffon's plea clumsy and unconvincing, to say the least.
>
>-- 
>
>	Francois Velde


	I agree with Francois' assessment. It is a clumsy plea.

	But I also happen to think that people who complain that
    CDs are expensive because prices have not gone under $10, as
    everybody initially expected, are wrong. I don't enjoy paying
    higher prices, but compared to LPs, CDs are cheap and getting
    cheaper. This has to do with the qualities of the medium,
    recording time that I find increasing and, lately, reissues
    of full-price recordings at mid or even budget price.
    
	Just witness the Sony Royal edition, Mercury CDs (2LPs on
    one CD), certain recent EMI reissues and even HM itself has
    lately reissued selections of its stuff at budget price.
    Add to that the fact that the prices have kept constant and
    CDs _are_ a good value, after all. About the little factoid,
    that CDs go for $21 in Europe: I think that includes the VAT,
    while the USA price does of $14-15 does not include the sales
    tax (5-8% in most states.) So, a $21 in the USA would be
    unfairly high.

	Should the price go up? It is not for Goiffon or me alone
    to decide. The market will do that. Will Harmonia Mundi go out
    of business if they increase the price of the CD to $21?
    I certainly hope not. Will I stop buying their CDs if they
    do so? No. The measure of the value of a CD is not cost, or
    cost per recording minute or even whether there is another
    recording of the same work selling at budget price. CDs, like
    concert performances, are _not_ a commodity.
    
	Hell, people spend $40,000 for a car. I cannot justify
    more than $8,000. Most people spend under $1,000 on their
    CD-player/amp/speakers. I spent $5,000. Different priorities.

	Having said that, let me plug the value of your local
    Used CD store. Not only good to unload what you consider duds,
    but it is amazing what excellent recordings turn up in its
    bins. I usually keep a long list of recordings I want to buy,
    since I cannot remember everything and I can easily find 2-3
    in my Used CD store. And I always buy CDs from Tower on sale.
    Especially the big one coming up in January.

    Georgios
From: m1wrp99@milo.uucp (William R. Palenske)
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
Subject: Re: lost masterpieces was re:
Date: 21 Dec 92 16:25:10 GMT
Distribution: rec
Organization: Federal Reserve Board, Wash, DC

alexander inglis writes:
>  >z    Subject: Lost Masterpieces was Re: Dresden was Re: One-work-composers
[stuff deleted]
>SA>>--The other 100 Bach cantatas
>  >>...and, of course, John Ernest Galliard's Sonata for 24 bassoons
>  >>and continuo -- though that one may have been destroyed on purpose.  8-)
[stuff deleted]
>If you're looking for a recording with a need for an unreasonable
>number of wind players ... try Handel's Musick for the Royal Fireworks
>on Hyperion with a (supplemented) King's Consort. The 1749 scoring they
>play calls for 24 oboes, 12 bassoons, 9 trumpets, 9 horns, 4 sets of
>timpani and deaf neighbours.

wasn't the music to accompany a fireworks display ? [ i guess that's what
i deduce from the title. ]  i, myself, haven't heard any quiet fireworks
displays.  maybe handel wanted some of the folks to have a _chance_ to
hear some music and see fireworks similtaneously?  maybe ?


-- 
   Bill Palenske            Board of Governors of the Federal Reserve System
   m1wrp99@fed.frb.gov      Washington, D.C.  20551
   uunet!fed!wrp            DISCLAIMER: MY OPINIONS ARE MY OWN.
From: Mike_Quigley@mindlink.bc.ca (Mike Quigley)
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
Subject: Re: The BEST finale!
Date: 22 Dec 92 18:00:53 GMT
Organization: MIND LINK! - British Columbia, Canada

> Tony Brokenborough writes:
>
> Oh please shut up !!!!!!
>
> 99% of the people on the net HATE's Bruckner's music. Even his contempories
> and the critics of his day hated his music. Whenever his music was
> critisized,
> he changed it !!!  That's why there are numerous 'originals' to many of his
> works. (The 'Bruckner problem' !!!!! )
>
> I guess you haven't read the article posted here which talks about one
> performer getting PHYSICALLY ILL after playing some of Bruckners junk !!!


The reason the performer allegedly got physically ill (I was the guy who
posted that, by the way) was because he was an orchestra member in a country
which had been overrun by the Nazis during World War II, and playing one of
B's symphonies, apparently under a German conductor, brought back a lot of
very unpleasant memories. It really didn't have that much to do with the
music in terms of its structure or whatever.

I really think some of us should try to be a little less hysterical in
dealing with certain composters like Bruckner, Messiaen, etc. These adverse
reactions remind me of a guy I knew in high school who just about totally
freaked over some of Schoenberg's piano music which I was studying and
admiring at the time. I couldn't understand his reaction, and I can't
understand some of the reactions in this newsgroup. Listening to music, no
matter how weird or bizarre, isn't going to kill anyone or cause cancer.
From: sekey@engrhub.ucsb.edu (Andrew Sekey)
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
Subject: Re: Recorded using B&W speakers
Date: 23 Dec 92 23:02:58 GMT
Followup-To: Walkure recordings
Organization: University of California, Santa Barbara

Sami Mitra writes:

        >A related recording of the 2nd act of the Walkure has also
>been rereleased. It is not as seamless as the one above. The different
>scenes have been conducted by two different conductors. Walter conducts
>the scene with Wotan's monologue and one other; I forget the other
>conductor's name. Melchior is Siegmund. I forget the other principals....

	There is some history behind this "mixed" recording. The original
conductor was Leo Blech, and the original Brunnhilde Ella Flesch. However,
both were Jewish, and were jettisoned from the record before it was released.
Most of it was re-recorded with Bruno Walter and Martha Fuchs (Brunnhilde).
The Wotan, too, was originally Alfred Jerger, replaced by Hans Hotter, who
was more acceptable to the Nazi regime...
	(I cannot remember exactly why the last scene remained with the old
version. Perhaps the re-recording had to be stopped before it was completed.)
	Hotter and Melchior are both in superb voices on this recording.

	Andrew Sekey
	sekey@ece.ucsb.edu
From: skitchen@pilot.njin.net (Sco3tt Kitchen)
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
Subject: Re: TRUMPET INFO needed before Xmas, BACH?
Date: 22 Dec 92 17:10:03 GMT
Organization: Rutgers Univ., New Brunswick, N.J.

In article <1h6ahuINNqv2@cat.cis.Brown.EDU> ST801578@brownvm.brown.edu (Calvin Lee) writes:

> Help me quick!  I need info about TRUMPETS.  I don't know anything about
> them I just play the violin.  Here's the story:  my friend's mom wants
> to buy a new trumpet for her talented son.  This is supposed to
> be a christmas present.  She wants to buy one of the best trumpets available
> under $3,000.  Well, she doesn't know anything about trumpets either, so
> she came to me for help... What's a violinist supposed to know???  But she
> does know that her son mentioned a trumpet made by BACH...  Is there a
> particularly good model made by that company.  If so, how much for a brand
> new and how much for an old one.  Or do you have recommendations for another
> brand.  I think we're primarily interested in getting one of the best models
> made by BACH but we've haven't started our search yet, and don't even know the
> model name/number/identification....  Help us please.  It's almost x-mas.
> Many thanks in advance...  Your info will help us from getting ripped off.

Bach Stradivarius trumpets are very good.  Or at least mine was when I
was regularly playing.  I'd recommend that personally.

Just be careful of perspiration; buy a handguard, too.

Scott
-- 
Scott Kitchen  |  Net.handsome.lug  |  ICBM: 40.88 N  74.56 W
------------------------------------------------------------------
Kitman's Law: Pure drivel tends to drive away ordinary drivel.
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
From: Mike_Quigley@mindlink.bc.ca (Mike Quigley)
Subject: Re: Bernstein's "Live" Mahler
Organization: MIND LINK! - British Columbia, Canada
Date: Fri, 1 Jan 1993 09:46:15 GMT

> Deryk Barker writes:
>
> Mike_Quigley@mindlink.bc.ca (Mike Quigley) writes:
> : (come to think of it, my favorite CD store is having a 20% off sale
> : which ends tomorrow...).
>
> Yeah - tell me about it, I just blew $200 in their Victoria branch.


$200? Sheesh, I only spent about $150! You'll be pleased to know that the
sale has been extended until January 10th, by the way.

Speaking of CD's and such, I think it would be interesting to hear what
people got for Christmas, either from others or gifts they gave to
themselves! I'll tell about mine tomorrow. It's 1:42 in the morning and I'm
pooped!

Happy New Year!

Newsgroups: rec.music.classical