HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: pfarrell@gmuvax2.gmu.edu (Pat Farrell)
Subject: Re: RFD: sci.crypt.research
Organization: George Mason University, Fairfax, Va.
Date: Tue, 29 Dec 1992 13:19:05 GMT

A while back, comp.compression was swamped with requests for
"where can I find the latest PKZIP?" and similar noise, much
like sci.crypt is swamped with legal and political noise.
The solution for the comp.compression folks was to simply
create comp.compression.research. Unmoderated.

The name is sufficient to scare away most folks. Moderation
explicitly requires a moderator. Before we can talk about
moderating it, we need a volunteer. I don't know what the 
tradition is, but it seems to me that discussing a moderated
group without identifying a group of volunteers is premature.
 
I have nothing against a talk.crypt group, but doubt that
there will be that much interest. I expect that the
availability of RIPEM and the RSN availability of TIS' PEM
will cause a serious increase in volume as folks compare
the three packages. It would be nice to have the split
resolved before that happens.

Pat
 
Pat Farrell,      Grad Student                       pfarrell@cs.gmu.edu
Department of Computer Science, George Mason University, Fairfax, VA
Public key available via finger           #include standard.disclaimer
Newsgroups: news.groups
From: Bucky.Whaley@launchpad.unc.edu (Bucky Whaley)
Subject: Re: Babylon5
Organization: The Lutefisk Watch 
Date: Tue, 29 Dec 1992 20:18:04 GMT

geoffb@Dartmouth.EDU writes:
>In <Blue-Knight.04p3@bknight.jpr.com> Blue-Knight@bknight.jpr.com (Yury German) writes:
>
>>What is the newsgroup that has all the information about upcoming TV movie
>>Babylon5. I have no time to look through each of the SCI-FI newsgroups and
>>such....
>
>There is no specific group dedicated to Babylon5 discussion but it is
>discussed from time to time in rec.arts.sf.tv.

And occasionally in rec.arts.startrek.current.


You don't wake up from The Big Disclaimer:
--
   The opinions expressed are not necessarily those of the University of
     North Carolina at Chapel Hill, the Campus Office for Information
        Technology, or the Experimental Bulletin Board Service.
           internet:  laUNChpad.unc.edu or 152.2.22.80
Newsgroups: news.groups,news.admin.misc
From: solovay@netcom.com (Andrew Solovay)
Subject: Re: Soc.Motss.*
Organization: People's Front of Judea
Date: Tue, 22 Dec 1992 22:40:38 GMT

In article <1992Dec22.151219.13249@bsu-ucs> 00daspeakman@leo.bsuvc.bsu.edu (David Speakman) writes:
>OK how about the following:
>
>soc.lesbigay.announce <for news events,march info,etc.>
>soc.lesbigay.archives <glossaries,bearcodes,sodomy law states,stonwall history>
>soc.lesbigay.culture  <philosophical discussion on the non-het condition>
>soc.lesbigay.talk     <the current whatever-goes soc.motss setup>

Looks good to me. I think we ought to make .announce and
.archives moderated, since these groups ought to have as high a
signal:noise ratio as possible.  Discussion about posts to these
groups probably ought to end up on .culture and .talk.  Anyone
agree? (More to the point, anyone volunteer to moderate?)
-- 
Andrew Solovay    
                "I know that, in America and under capitalism,
                 I am the freest woman in history."
                                --- Camille Paglia
From: alain@elevia.uniforum.qc.ca (W. A. Simon)
Newsgroups: news.groups
Subject: RFD: sci.crypt.research
Date: 28 Dec 92 14:13:56 GMT

In <4fDb2em00WB=84isY1@andrew.cmu.edu>
strong+@CMU.EDU (Thomas W. Strong, Jr.)
aka ts49+@andrew.cmu.edu
requests a discussion:

>  This is a formal Request For Discussion regarding the establishment of
>  a newsgroup to discuss scientific and technical aspects of
> [ ... ]

	should not this have gone to the moderated
	news.announce.newsgroups
	first?

> [ ... ] 
>		create	sci.crypt.research

	not my favorite solution but I would support it in
	the interest of a fast resolution.  But read on...

> [ ... ]
>  The idea of a moderated group has been floating around for a while,
>  and it appears that there is sufficient support for it.

	You are projecting a bias here and you are trying to
	sweep under the carpet a number of opposing views
	which were clearly and numerously expressed before.
	Make it the object of a vote as well.  To bundle two
	issues into one vote is an old trick of politics, but
	nevertheless a shamefull one.


--
 Alain - Canadian Patent #1310575
 [ ... usual disclaimer... ]
Newsgroups: news.groups,news.admin.misc
From: twpierce@unix.amherst.edu (Tim Pierce)
Subject: Re: PROPOSAL:  Yes votes >= 200+2*No Votes
Organization: Elitist Usenet Administrators, Turkey Division
Date: Tue, 22 Dec 1992 02:41:51 GMT

In article <1992Dec21.191558.28303@ennews.eas.asu.edu> sridhar@asuvax.eas.asu.edu (Sridhar Venkataraman ) writes:

>Can u please explain why the 100+ rule is obsolete? I can give you
>atleast 2 examples for groups which passed by wafer thin margins and
>are far healthier than groups which passed by 400+ votes. IMO, the
>100+ rule is still doing a wonderful job of what it is meant for.

Sounds to me from this example as if the minimum number of votes on a
group has absolutely no bearing whatsoever on its volume.

-- 
____ Tim Pierce                / 
\  / twpierce@unix.amherst.edu /               Rocks say goodbye.
 \/ (BITnet: TWPIERCE@AMHERST) / 
Newsgroups: news.groups,news.admin.misc
From: peter@ferranti.com (peter da silva)
Subject: Re: PROPOSAL:  Yes votes >= 200+2*No Votes
Organization: Xenix Support, FICC
Date: Thu, 24 Dec 1992 01:39:45 GMT

In article <EMCGUIRE.92Dec23140018@fuller.intellection.com> emcguire@intellection.com (Ed McGuire) writes:
> I wouldn't say it is irrelevant.  See my other article for an
> explanation.

So you think a group with 1 article per month should not exist? I'm sure
glad you're not there to pull the plug on the RSTS group. I've got a dozen
groups in my newsrc that have picked up under 10 messages in the past year.
They're right at the front of the list.
-- 
Peter da Silva                                            `-_-'
Ferranti International Controls Corporation                'U` 
Sugar Land, TX  77487-5012 USA
+1 713 274 5180                            "Zure otsoa besarkatu al duzu gaur?"
From: hades@coos.dartmouth.edu (Hades)
Newsgroups: news.groups
Subject: Re: Manly Geoff Bronner (Re: RFD: soc.culture.native.american)
Date: 29 Dec 92 05:12:52 GMT
Reply-To: hades@Dartmouth.Edu
Organization: Dartmouth College, Hanover, NH
Disclaimer: Personally, I really don't care who you think I speak for.
Moderator: Rec.Arts.Comics.Info

emcguire@intellection.com (Ed McGuire) writes:

>In article <1992Dec23.200434.17982@dartvax.dartmouth.edu> geoffb@coos.dartmouth.edu (Geoff Bronner) writes:

>   >Be serious, it's hard for me to type and laugh at the same time.
>   >What's your damage?  Who's being rude?  It was rude of Brian to foist
>   >his minority view of the issue on me and everyone with his comment
>   >"what we want here is soc.culture.native," 

    "Foist"? I haven't foisted anything upon anyone. If you don't want
to see my opinions then don't read my articles. I was calling into
question the very real possibility that too much is trying to be
accomplished all at once. Things need to be kept simpler, otherwise the
chance of the proposal failing increases. This is commen sense in UseNet
and not a "minority opinion".

>I referred to his view as "minority" because his first post was so
>seriously at odds with the consensus established on the issue.  But
>you thought I referred to his race instead.  I hear a knee jerking.

    What consensus? There were about 20 people in the discussion, and
even they couldn't aggree on the issues.

>Raise Usenet quality.  Read news.announce.newgroups and vote.

    What about those who can't read newsgroups at all?

--
-Brian V. Hughes
	     "If you could care less, then why don't you?"
Xref: sparky news.groups:24947 sci.crypt:6248
From: cme@ellisun.sw.stratus.com (Carl Ellison)
Newsgroups: news.groups,sci.crypt
Subject: Re: RFD: sci.crypt.research
Date: 29 Dec 92 00:35:40 GMT
Organization: Stratus Computer, Software Engineering
NNTP-Posting-Host: ellisun.sw.stratus.com


This sounds like a great idea.

Is it possible to start a group as unmoderated and then change it over
later, if the nonsense traffic migrates to it?  If not, then I would
welcome a moderated group.  If so, I might try it unmoderated first
in order to see if the nonsense moves (hoping it doesn't).

Of course, if those engaged in flaming on sci.crypt were to just move to
another group (a talk.* group?), this might not be required.  As I remember
it from the past, sci.crypt was to have precisely the charter offered
for this group.

For that matter, can sci.crypt be converted to a moderated group?

-- 
-- <<Disclaimer: All opinions expressed are my own, of course.>>
-- Carl Ellison						cme@sw.stratus.com
-- Stratus Computer Inc.	M3-2-BKW		TEL: (508)460-2783
-- 55 Fairbanks Boulevard ; Marlborough MA 01752-1298	FAX: (508)624-7488
Newsgroups: news.groups,alt.messianic,alt.fan.rush-limbaugh,talk.politics.misc
From: jfurr@nyx.cs.du.edu (Joel Furr)
Subject: Re: talk.politics.usa.conservative (Was: Re: RFD: talk.politics.patriot)
X-Disclaimer: Nyx is a public access Unix system run by the University
	of Denver for the Denver community.  The University has neither
	control over nor responsibility for the opinions of users.
Organization: Nyx, Public Access Unix at U. of Denver Math/CS dept.
Date: Sat, 2 Jan 93 02:45:47 GMT

In article <id.T8CW.QW6@ferranti.com> peter@ferranti.com (peter da silva) writes:
>In article <1993Jan1.081442.20987@mnemosyne.cs.du.edu> jfurr@nyx.cs.du.edu (Joel Furr) writes:
>> No, I'm sorry, but I did NOT misquote Peter da Silva.  He posted a lengthy
>> paragraph deriding the very concept of "conservative" being used to mean
>> "on the right of the political spectrum."
>
>No, I posted a lengthy article deriding the very concept of conservative
>as a useful tag. You may freely replace "conservative" with "to the right
>of the political spectrum" without changing the meaning of either the word
>nor my message. It's just as meaningless.
>
>I also said not one word about whether it's a good or bad idea to help
>people mutilate the language. I've already connived in the creation of
>a similar group for similar reasons, despite my opposition to idiotic
>labels of that type.

I don't understand what's wrong with Peter but until now I never thought
I'd come across someone who, despite all evidence to the contrary,
continues to believe and publicly state that the word "conservative" is
meaningless and idiotic as a label for a political point of view.  As
several people have said, "conservative" has a well-established meaning in
terms of culture, philosophy, and political thought dating back hundreds
of years.  

Peter ignores this and calls the use of the word "conservative" in a
potential newsgroup name "mutilation of the language."  As far as I
can tell, Peter's a crank and there's not much anyone can say that he'll
listen to.  Fine, Peter.  If a newsgroup name such as "talk.politics.-
conservative" or "talk.politics.usa.conservative" strikes you as idiotic
and language-mutilating, I'm sure you'll go to bed each night happier in
your superiority to the rest of the net.

I have no interest at all in being a regular participant in a
talk.politics.usa.conservative group, being largely apathetic when it
comes to ideology and tending to vote Democratic anyway.  I *do* care
about keeping the political debate honorable and thus my entry into this
thread: I feel that the suggestions of "talk.politics.reactionary" and
"talk.politics.retrogressive" were attempts to discard conservative
thought as the ravings of a lunatic fringe and have said so.  I feel that
there probably are quite a few people who'd participate in a group devoted
to "patriotic" or "conservative" thought, and I hope they'll post to this
thread in news.groups and say so.
From: stanley@ruby.OCE.ORST.EDU (John Stanley)
Newsgroups: news.groups
Subject: Re: DAVE HAYES MAY BE RIGHT!
Date: 26 Dec 1992 16:41:58 GMT
Organization: Oregon State University, College of Oceanography
NNTP-Posting-Host: ruby.oce.orst.edu

In article <1992Dec20.180554.4592@metrosoft.com> gvh@metrosoft.com (Gordon Van Huizen) writes:
>Why would you like to see these only be suggestions
>instead of requirements? 

To keep the  newsgroup creation process from being regulated to death?

>weeks back that some components he finds useful in CFV's 
>were "state of the art" a few years ago, but people seldom
>use them anymore. Perhaps if there were more
>formalization of these ideas they would be used more
>frequently? 

Perhaps if more people thought they were such great ideas, they would be
used without the need for them to be mandated. Perhaps the fact that
they are not being done when they are optional means that not that many
people think they are such really great ideas?

Xref: sparky news.groups:25006 news.lists:551 news.admin:8782
From: reid@decwrl.DEC.COM (Brian Reid)
Newsgroups: news.groups,news.lists,news.admin
Subject: arbitron data from these sites has expired
Date: 1 Jan 1993 20:42:40 GMT
Organization: DEC Network Systems Laboratory
NNTP-Posting-Host: torrey.pa.dec.com
Keywords: arbitron, statistics, announcement
Originator: reid@torrey.pa.dec.com

The arbitron data from the following sites is more than 75 days old, and has
therefore been discarded.

academ01			morrow.stanford.edu
alba2l				mri
alliant.alliant.com		mti
alv				nomad.urich.edu
amun-re				oberon
anakena				oericom.ericsson.se
ariadne.csi.forth.gr		onion
asimov				psi.rutgers.edu
burnside.rutgers.edu		r-node
bute.tcom.stc.co.uk		robkaos
ccsvax.sfasu.edu		romot
claudius			saruman.sssab.se
covpoly				scfb.nwc.navy.mil
cs.utexas.edu			sed00
csdvax.csd.unsw.edu.au		skog.tromsolh.winix.tih.no
eastern				spacm1.spac.spc.com
eiklh.no			spctra
fdmetd				tampa.berkeley.edu
fox-in				trident.arc.nasa.gov
freya				turnip.bally.com
gnumath.rutgers.edu		vikram
harvey				void
herkules.sssab.se		voodoo
ibmpcug				wariat
ics				wgate
irbs				worf
kf5iw				wrglex.uucp
lambda.msfc.nasa.gov		wsl.ie
maple.bnr.co.uk			wvcc.uucp
mdsol1				xcluud
From: twcaps@tennyson.lbl.gov (Terry Chan)
Newsgroups: news.groups
Subject: Re: Rec.arts.cinema : rmgroup?
Date: 27 Dec 1992 10:37:27 GMT
Organization: Department of Redundancy Department
Reply-To: TWChan@lbl.gov (Terry Chan)
NNTP-Posting-Host: 128.3.12.117

chuahl@ocf.berkeley.edu (Chua HakLien) writes:

  +>>Since we already have rec.arts.movies, and nobody seems to be using
  +>>r.a.cinema, why not remove it?

Then geoffb@Dartmouth.EDU responds:

  +>It is a very quiet (ok... dead) group but when it is active it covers a
  +>lot of discussion that rec.arts.movies generally avoids.
 
So Chua comes back and says:
 
  +So r.a.cinema is supposed to be the NC-17 version of r.a.movies? =)
  +Seriously, I think it would only serve to confuse new readers. As of now,
  +there are * NO * posts in r.a.cinema, and for purposes of tidiness, I think
  +it should be removed. Is there such a thing as a call-for-removal? How does
  +one rmgroup a newsgroup officially?

You propose rmgrouping a group because as of now in your newsreader
it has no posts?  Sheesh.  BTW, might you consider posting to 
rec.arts.movies also to let them know what you're up to?  I'd expect
that some folks there may have input since I would assume that
they helped bring it about in the first place.  Maybe we ought to
get rid of alt.cult.movies too since that's redundant too huh?

Terry Chan
--
Energy and Environment Division   | Internet:  TWChan@lbl.gov
Lawrence Berkeley Laboratory      | 
Berkeley, California  USA  94720  | Carpe per diem
From: weave@apache.dtcc.edu (Ken Weaverling)
Newsgroups: news.groups
Subject: Re: All your postings to this newsgroup might go wasted!
Date: 25 Dec 1992 14:21:27 -0500
Organization: Delaware Technical & Community College
NNTP-Posting-Host: apache.dtcc.edu

In article <1992Dec23.224153.25197@uwasa.fi> ts@uwasa.fi (Timo Salmi) writes:
>... I suggested in news.groups that the rmgroup delay in the case of
>renaming newsgroups should be shortened from three months (which I
>hypothesize is one of the causes for the "debris") to 15 days. 

The problem with this is that if a user who doesn't read news every day
(there are some out there), go looking for a group that was renamed, and
find it is gone, may not know what it was renamed to.

So, I think keeping it around for a few months and having weekly reminders
posted to it to alert readers to the new group is the best thing.

I was talking about groups that hang around for years after being
*officially* removed...
-- 
Weave's 10/90 recipe for insanity: Take one programmer, divide into portions: 
10% programming consisting of equal parts in systems and applications plus
admin duties broken down into 20% for Unix, 5% PRIMOS, 10% hardware & network, 
35% DOS/Windows, 10% news, 5% postmaster, and 5% babysitting IRC kiddies.
Newsgroups: news.groups
From: emcguire@intellection.com (Ed McGuire)
Subject: Re: STRAW VOTE ON NAME FOR NATIVE AMERICANS NEWSGROUP
Organization: Intellection, Inc.
Date: Mon, 21 Dec 1992 16:09:21 GMT

In article <BzLqDD.EzG@cantua.canterbury.ac.nz> chisnall@cosc.canterbury.ac.nz (The Technicolour Throw-up) writes:

   How about soc.culture.autochthon?  Autochthon is precisely the word
   that people are looking for here.  Its unambiguous (unlike
   "native") and free of derogatory connotations (unlike
   "aboriginal").  The only thing against it is that it probably too
   obscure to most people.

Obscure, indeed!  My first reaction was, "Let's not drag Lovecraft
into the debate, it's scary enough as it is."  :)
-- 
Ed McGuire                   1603 LBJ Freeway, Suite 780
Systems Administrator/       Dallas, Texas 75234
 Member of Technical Staff   214/620-2100, FAX 214/484-8110
Intellection, Inc.           <ed@intellection.com>
Newsgroups: news.groups,news.admin.misc
From: sridhar@asuvax.eas.asu.edu (Sridhar Venkataraman )
Subject: Re: PROPOSAL:  Yes votes >= 200+2*No Votes
Organization: Arizona State University, Tempe AZ
Date: Tue, 22 Dec 1992 16:58:27 GMT

jbotz@mtholyoke.edu (Jurgen Botz) writes:
)sridhar@asuvax.eas.asu.edu (Sridhar Venkataraman ) writes:
)>Can u please explain why the 100+ rule is obsolete? I can give you
)>atleast 2 examples for groups which passed by wafer thin margins and
)>are far healthier than groups which passed by 400+ votes. 

)Well, what are they?

Ok. Since you ask for names...

rec.music.indian.misc
rec.food.recipes

About groups with 400+ margins, just check the lists of votes posted
and you can easily catch them. If I name them it will be enough bait
for a flame war. :) Some people may disagree with rec.food.recipes
bcos it is a moderated group. 

Remember, I was only countering the "obsolete 100+ rule" argument. Any
extrapolation beyond it is purely your opinion! About the rule holding
good for filtering bad proposals, I am sure there are quite a few
failed votes that would serve as examples.

Sridhar.
--
Sridhar Venkataraman			sridhar@asuvax.eas.asu.edu
Newsgroups: news.groups,alt.messianic,alt.fan.rush-limbaugh,talk.politics.misc
From: kepley@cs.unca.edu (Brad Kepley)
Subject: Re: talk.politics.usa.conservative (Was: Re: RFD: talk.politics.patriot)
Organization: University of North Carolina at Asheville
Date: Sat, 2 Jan 1993 14:28:02 GMT

>Ah, right.  William Weld and Pat Buchanan both describe themselves
>as conservatives and you think there's that much common ground
>there?  I don't think so.

That's only your own bias.  Have you asked Weld or Buchanon about this?
I call myself a political conservative and I like them both (although I
have problems with them both in certain areas).  Conservatives have 
a set of core beliefs they all agree on and they argue around the 
periphery of these core beliefs.  Buchanon and Weld would both call 
themselves followers of Burke.  Catholics and Baptists call themselves
followers of Christ.  They have enormous differences, but they are 
Newsgroups: news.groups,alt.native
From: peter@ferranti.com (peter da silva)
Subject: Re: talk.politics.usa.conservative (Was: Re: RFD: talk.politics.patriot)
Organization: Xenix Support, FICC
Date: Fri, 1 Jan 1993 20:20:03 GMT

In article <1992Dec31.033011.3349@afit.af.mil> wbralick@afit.af.mil (Will Bralick) writes:
> Did the Aussies think that Mrs. Thatcher was a Green?

No, a big-L-Liberal.

Though shutting down smokestack industries and coal mines is a pretty green
thing to do. In the US, the conservation movement has recently been allied
with the left, but this is an artificial side-effect of the two-party system.
The progressive right (big business) and the progressive left (labor unions)
are clearly allied against the conservationist right (Audubon, etc..) and
the conservationist left (Greenpeace, etc).
-- 
Peter da Silva                                            `-_-'
Ferranti International Controls Corporation                'U` 
Sugar Land, TX  77487-5012 USA
+1 713 274 5180                            "Zure otsoa besarkatu al duzu gaur?"
Newsgroups: news.groups
From: gvh@metrosoft.com (Gordon Van Huizen)
Subject: Re: DAVE HAYES MAY BE RIGHT!
Reply-To: gvh@metrosoft.com (Gordon Van Huizen)
Organization: Metrosoft
Date: Sun, 20 Dec 1992 18:05:54 GMT

In article <JAAPJL.92Dec18142122@cmb00.larc.nasa.gov>  
jaapjl@tab00.larc.nasa.gov (J Lee Jaap) writes:
> Personally, I think that this could be a suggestion but
> not a requirement that posts with group-specific
> subjects could contain pointers to the RFD or CFV.  Also a
> suggestion that RFDs and CFVs contain (near the top) a
> request for others to post again to groups that they care
> strongly about. 
 
Why would you like to see these only be suggestions
instead of requirements? It seems to me that a number of
good ideas regarding the process aren't a matter of
practice, despite the fact that they have been suggested
and/or used in the past.  
  
If I'm not mistaken, Chip Salzenberg was lamenting a few
weeks back that some components he finds useful in CFV's 
were "state of the art" a few years ago, but people seldom
use them anymore. Perhaps if there were more
formalization of these ideas they would be used more
frequently? 
 
Gordon
-- 
----------------------------------------------------------------
Gordon Van Huizen           vox: 619.488.9411  fax: 619.488.3045
Metrosoft                   gvh@metrosoft.com [NeXTmail welcome]
----------------------------------------------------------------
Newsgroups: news.groups,news.admin.misc