HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
Newsgroups: rec.sport.golf

I have read/watched several books/videos and have gotten something out
of all of them. I've noticed that they sometimes say things different.
I've tried to pay attention to the things they say the same and for
the differences, I just pay attention to one of them so I don't get
confused all the time. Having said all that, here is my list of
favorites:

BOOKS
  "The Golf Swing", David Leadbetter. Nick Faldo's teacher.
  Outstanding book about the basic swing. Keeps it simple so you can
  remember it.

  "Win and Win Again", Curtis Strange. Has a lot of good things to say
  about parts of the game other than the basic swing: putting, course
  management, mental toughness, sand shots, rough, etc...

VIDEOS
  "Golf My Way II", Nicholas. Reviews the basic swing then talks at
  length about course management.

  "Win and Win Again", Strange. Companion to the book above.

I think the course management ideas have saved me 3-4 strokes a round
on average and I'm just a bogey golfer.
From: David.Moore@tdkt.kksys.com (David Moore)
Sender: FredGate@tdkt.kksys.com
From: billodo@cyclone (Bill O'Donnell)
Subject: Re: Donna Andrews penalty (Was Re: How to pull out the flagstick....)
Organization: Rosemount, Inc.
Distribution: sqnt
Date: Tue, 28 Jul 1992 12:41:04 GMT

john@sequent.com (John Vander Borght) writes:
: sheldon@kong.gsfc.nasa.gov (Roger Sheldon - AISS) writes:

: The WOMAN is Donna Andrews.  
: 
: No slap, they just told her that she had not followed the rules and that
: she needed to add another stroke.  Her reasoning for not following the
: rules was that she misunderstood what constituted a stroke, as opposed to
: not knowing that she had to replace a ball that was accidentally moved.
: She felt that since the club head was moving forward when it hit the ball
: it was a stroke, but the rule also says you must have intended to hit the
: ball, which she admitted she had not.  Therefore, instead of being a stroke
: (which is what she thought it was), it was a violation of Rule 18 and she
: had to replace it.
: 
: It is not unfair.

It is somewhat unfair.  The next person will simply say they intended to hit
the ball, but they did not strike it correctly, and thus avoid the extra penalty
for not putting the ball back to its original position.  It seems to me that enforcement
of this rule is very sticky.  I guess the official should have asked her,
"did you intend to do that"?  

Andrews did fare rather well after all the mess.  I think she finished 3rd or 4th.

billodo@cyclone
Newsgroups: rec.sport.golf
From: ksb@adm.csc.ncsu.edu (Kelvin S. Bryant)
Subject: Re: greenhorn (not) learning to swing
Organization: Adm.csc.ncsu.edu (Administration machine NCSU Dept. Computer Science)
Distribution: na
Date: Wed, 29 Jul 1992 01:29:42 GMT


Be encouraged.  I started off the same way and my ego took a real beating.  The
very first time I played I went to a small par 3 course that only required a
9 iron and putter.  Once I gained some confidence and some instruction from a
a good golfer, I took it to a "real" course where I shot about 118.  I have
been playing about 6 months now and shoot in the high 90's.  I'm readly to sink
some money and get some lessons from a pro instructor.  The most important 
thing to learn is etiquette and fast play.  Even now, I can use a pull cart and
keep up with the best of them.  Just keep in mind, "What ever you do, do it
quickly" (Well don't rush yourself too much).  Good luck and hang in there.

ksb.
-- 
******************************************************************************
Kelvin S. Bryant     NCSU Computer Science Dept. 
Box 8206             Internet: ksb@adm.csc.ncsu.edu              
NCSU                 Voice: 919-515-7173
Newsgroups: rec.sport.golf
From: whitley@mksol.dseg.ti.com (harlon whitley 952-2342)
Subject: Re: Ruling Question
Organization: Texas Instruments, Inc
Date: Fri, 24 Jul 1992 17:50:51 GMT

In last post, I failed to add the article.  It was about whether a left-handed
golfer can use another's right hand club to make a shot.  I looked in the 
Rules of Golf and that was what it said.

-Harlan

It was pin high.
Newsgroups: rec.sport.golf
From: gturk@bnr.ca (Glenn Turk P925)
Subject: Re: average club hitting distances
Reply-To: gturk@brtph617.bnr.ca
Organization: Bell-Northern Research, BNR-RTP
Distribution: na
Date: Tue, 21 Jul 1992 12:43:06 GMT

In article <1992Jul20.231406.14403@leland.Stanford.EDU>, ramseydc@leland.Stanford.EDU (Donald Ramsey) writes:
|> Well, I don't know about others, but the following are my full swing
|> yardages for balls hit out of a good, flat lie in the fairway:
|> 
|> 	     Comfortably	Maximum
|> ----------------------------------------------
|> 8		150		160
|> 9		140+		150

looks like a rather large (and important) hole in your bag! :)

|> pw		110		125
|> sw		 80		 95
|> 		

Here's mine

dr	240-260
4w	220-230
5w	200-210
2i	170-200 :-<
3i	190-195
4i	180-185
5i	170-175
6i	160-165
7i	145-155
8i	130-145
9i	115-130
pw	 90-115
sw	   -90

note the range on my short irons increases due to variances I can
make in face angle.  I try to stay on the short end of each range
so I can swing easier.  The 2i rarely comes out to play, except
occasionally off the tee.
-- 
Glenn R. Turk
email: gturk@brtph617.bnr.ca
(919)991-8593 ESN 294-8593
Bell Northern Research, RTP, NC
Newsgroups: rec.sport.golf
From: john@sequent.com (John Vander Borght)
Subject: Re: YARQ (Yet Another Rules Question)
Organization: Sequent Computer Systems, Inc.
Distribution: sqnt
Date: Thu, 23 Jul 92 20:13:42 GMT

merklin@rtsg.mot.com (Teresa B. Merklin) writes:


>Yet Another Rules Question:

>The other day in our company league, there was a rank beginner in our 
>foursome. On the first hole I reached the green before he did, and marked
>my ball before he escaped a large greenside bunker. As fate would have it,
>his ball ended up very close to mine about a foot farther out from the 
>pin. 

>While he was lining up his putt, and before any of us could stop him, he said
>"Look somebody left a dime", took my mark and pocketed it.

>After that, my playing partner teased me about charging me a penalty stroke
>since my mark was interfered with. The playing partner of the guy who took
>my mark also teased him about penalty strokes.

>We just chalked it up to one of those things that happens, and didn't charge
>any penalty to anyone.

>What is the correct ruling?

It depends on whether you were playing match play or not.  If you were
playing a match, Decision 20-1/7 comes into play.

20-1/7  Ball-Marker Moved by Opponent's Caddie Accidentally

Q. A player's caddie accidentally kicked his opponent's ball-marker closer
to the hole.  What is the ruling?

A. In equity (Rule 1-4), the ball-marker should have been replaced as near
as possible to the spot where it lay, and the player should incur a penalty
of one stroke.

BUT, if you weren't playing a Match in match play, Decision 20-1/9 is in
effect.

20-1/9 Ball-Marker lifted by Outside Agency

Q. A marked the position of his ball on the putting green while a following
match or group was playing through.  AFter the following match or group had
played through, A could not find his ball-marker.  It apparently was lifted
by one of the players playing through.  What is the ruling?

A. Under Rule 20-3c, A must place his ball as near as possible to where it
lay on the green.

No penalty if you were not playing a match with this person (a fellow
competitor is just an outside agency in stroke play.)  It sounds
like you were though, so it should have been a one stroke penalty on him.

John Vander Borght
john@sequent.com

-- 
"Practice random kindness and senseless acts of beauty!"
John Vander Borght
john@sequent.com
Newsgroups: rec.sport.golf
From: grante@aquarius (Grant Edwards)
Subject: Re: Question on pulling the flagstick w/ ball holed.
Organization: Rosemount, Inc.
Date: Wed, 22 Jul 1992 23:27:37 GMT

andrews@qut.edu.au writes:
: brad@meaddata.com (Brad Craig) writes:
: > While playing a friendly round of golf this past Saturday, a playing
: > partner holed a green side chip for birdie.  He proceeded to walk to
: > the flagstick, pull the flagstick out in such a way as to bring the
: > ball out with it.
: > 
: > Seeing that he got a birdie and would win 4 skins because of it, I
: > joked with him and said that since he pulled the flagstick out and the
: > ball came out of the hole, that he incurred a penalty.  I swore to him
: > that I had hear/read this some where.  He did not belive me. Anyway I
: > would not have made him take the penalty anyway, after all it was for
: > fun.
: > 
: 
: 	As I understand it, if the ball went into the hole so that it was
: 	below the level of the hole it is deemed to be in the hole. It
: 	then doesn't matter how it is removed from the hole as the player
: 	has already finished out on that hole.
: 

From the _Rules_of_Golf_ (1991 edition, but this part didn't change):

  17-4. Ball Resting Against Flagstick

  If the ball rests against the flagstick when it is in the hole, the
  player or another person authorized by him may move or remove the
  flagstick and if the ball falls into the hole, the player shall be
  deemed to have holed out at his last stroke; otherwise, the ball, if
  moved, shall be placed on the lip of the hole, without penalty.

My observations:

Due to the shape of the cup, most balls that go into the hole will
come to rest against the flagstick.  If the ball was resting against
the flagstick, and came out of the hole, then to remain within the
rules, the ball should have been placed at the lip of the hole.

You would then have to tap in.

So, be careful when removing the flagstick!  (I don't play with
anybody that would make me place the ball and tap in, but I would hear
about it for weeks.)

--
Grant Edwards                                 |Yow!  I'm EMOTIONAL now
Rosemount Inc.                                |because I have MERCHANDISING
                                              |CLOUT!!
grante@aquarius.rosemount.com                 |
From: v5875bza@ubvmsd.cc.buffalo.edu (Michael M Gorman Jr)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.golf
Subject: How to pull out the flagstick....
Date: 24 Jul 92 15:54:00 GMT
Organization: University at Buffalo
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41

Flagsticks are flexible, so how I pull the stick out of the hole
in a case where my ball is resting against it can determine whether
the ball falls in or not.

OK, all you righteous golfers, is it against the True Spirit of
The Game o' Golf to deliberately pull the stick back away from the ball
to encourage the ball to fall in?

BTW, please, purists, don't flame me.  I'm just poking gentle fun.
As a matter of fact, I count myself among you.

But it is a serious question.


Michael Gorman
SUNY-Bflo
Dept. of Philosophy
From: cha@csgo.usc.edu (Seungho Cha)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.golf
Subject: Rude / Slow game experience
Date: 22 Jul 1992 11:45:09 -0700
Organization: University of Southern California, Los Angeles, CA
NNTP-Posting-Host: csgo.usc.edu

Last Sunday, I was playing with two friends in local golf course.
One guy's ball flew to our fairway, when my friend was going to hit
his second shot.  Then, that guy (looked around 50 yrs. old) ran into
our fairway, not waiting my friend finished his shot.  My friend waited
for him to finish his shot kindly.  But, that guy did the practice swing
7 times!!  Then, he hit another 10 yard shot still in our fairway.
He looked my friend and walked to his ball.  Then, he did 5 times of
practice swing, then finally hit the ball back to his fairway.  My friend
was very angry, but didn't even yell to that guy.  He just hit the ball 
after one practice swing.  At that time, that guy came to my friend, so I 
thought he would apologize for his rudeness.

	He told my friend, "don't hurry."

It was lucky that he was patient enough not to kill that guy with the club.

- Seungho
From: wayman@lamar.ColoState.EDU (Jeffrey Wayman)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.golf
Subject: Re: Question on pulling the flagstick w/ ball holed.
Date: 23 Jul 92 19:51:19 GMT
Organization: Colorado State University, Fort Collins, CO  80523

In article <1992Jul23.041547.25217@colorado.edu> cdash@moet.cs.colorado.edu (Charles Shub) writes:
>There has been a bit of confusion about balls resting against
>flagsticks.  Let's try and clear it up.
>
>Once a ball is holed, the play of the hole is over and nothing one
>does after that makes a difference.  This is supported by several
>decisions, including 1-1/2, 1-1/3, 1-1/4, and 2-4/11.
>
I got nailed bad on this by a guy on the rules committee for the state
of Wisconsin.  The situation:  On a par 3, a player seemingly bounces
one over green into OB.  He tees up another, and when the flag is pulled
to put, his original ball was found to have holed.  What's the ruling?

I thought he was playing his 4th shot, because he intended his 2nd 
ball to be in play, not being a provisional.  The quote from the earlier
post shows how wrong I was!!  Great rules question.

Jeff              wayman@lamar.colostate.edu
Newsgroups: rec.sport.golf
From: thompson@titan.trl.OZ.AU (David Thompson)
Subject: Re: TV coverage (Was: Cook blows British Open)
Organization: Telecom Research Labs, Melbourne, Australia
Date: Wed, 22 Jul 1992 06:41:28 GMT

enenkel@cs.toronto.edu (Robert Frederick Enenkel) writes:

>nelson@mdd.comm.mot.com (Mike Nelson) writes:

>>I found another thing disappointing. In previous Opens we've 
>>been treated to the BBC's coverage. This year it was the network
>>coverage and it was quite sad by comparison. You get to see the
>>top 4 or 5 competitors most of the time. A lot of closeups
>>(who cares) of their faces and lengthy delays while we wait for 
>>putts. 

>I'm glad to hear someone else thinks so too.  I just started watching golf,
>but I thought the TV coverage was generally crap.  I'm going to watch the
>Canadian Open in person - hope that's better than the TV.  

>Robert Enenkel
>(proud new owner of a #3 wood and a putter... :-)

Great win by Faldo, hope to see John Cook in oz at the Australian Open
later this year.
I don't think it was a network coverage , we got the BBC coverage , Dave
Marr was one of the commentators on the BBC so if you got his commentary
it definately was BBC coverage. I agree it was crap, video of players
walking down fairways, lenghty displays of leader boards etc could have
given us more of the other players in the tourney, I think they had more
than 2 cameras on the course. Come on BBC learn how to give the viewer a
more comprehensive coverage, its hard enough with all the ads the
commercial TV in oz puts on to get settleddown and then u come back with
a leader board or players walking down fairways.
Its always better in person, but i can't afford the airfare!

Dave T.

Newsgroups: rec.sport.golf
From: greg@gregs.smd.tandem.com (Greg Stewart)
Subject: Re: Bio-degradable Golf Tees 
Followup-To: rec.sport.golf
Reply-To: greg@gregs.smd.tandem.com
Organization: Tandem Computers Incorporated
Date: Wed, 22 Jul 1992 15:51:55 GMT

I just saw them in the new Austad's catalog.

-- 
Greg Stewart
Tandem Computers Incorporated
greg@gregs.smd.tandem.com

Newsgroups: rec.sport.golf
From: dbingham@bnr.ca (David Bingham)
Subject: Quote of the day
Reply-To: dbingham@x400gate.bnr.ca
Organization: Bell-Northern Research Ltd., Ottawa, Ontario, Canada
Date: Wed, 22 Jul 92 18:57:52 GMT

Saw this in the August GOLF, and had to share it...

  As far as I can tell, the only two moral lessons I've learned from 30
  years of golf are that I have a more violent temper and a greater
  inclination toward dishonesty than I'd ever have suspected.

  Thomas Boswell

I haven't played for 30 years (just over 1), but I've seen those same 
tendencies.  Nice to know I'm not alone...

-- 
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
David Bingham           |  Opinions expressed are those of the participants,
Bell-Northern Research  |  and may not reflect those of this station and its
Ottawa, Ontario, Canada |  management...
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Newsgroups: rec.sport.golf
From: derek@oceania.com (Derek Collison)
Subject: Re: TV coverage (Was: Cook blows British Open)
Reply-To: derek@oceania.com
Organization: Oceania Health Care Systems
Date: Tue, 21 Jul 1992 19:55:41 GMT

In article <1992Jul21.141356.1312@kong.gsfc.nasa.gov>  
sheldon@kong.gsfc.nasa.gov (Roger Sheldon - AISS) writes:
> In article <92Jul20.195336edt.230@smoke.cs.toronto.edu>  
enenkel@cs.toronto.edu (Robert Frederick Enenkel) writes:
> >nelson@mdd.comm.mot.com (Mike Nelson) writes:
> >
> >>I found another thing disappointing. In previous Opens we've 
> >>been treated to the BBC's coverage. This year it was the network
> >>coverage and it was quite sad by comparison. You get to see the
> >>top 4 or 5 competitors most of the time. A lot of closeups
> >>(who cares) of their faces and lengthy delays while we wait for 
> >>putts. 
> >
> >I'm glad to hear someone else thinks so too.  I just started watching  
golf,
> >but I thought the TV coverage was generally crap.  I'm going to watch  
the
> >Canadian Open in person - hope that's better than the TV.  
> 
> I agree.  In addition to improving the format of the coverage, the
> networks should take polls on what announcers people like.  I personally
> thought Jim McKay's comments were pathetic -- he obviously doesn't know
> much about the game.  
> 
> Roger
> 

	My vote is for Gary McCord, I really enjoyed his commentary at the  
Masters.

=derek
-- 
Derek Collison <---> derek@oceania.com  
Oceania Health Care Systems             
325 Lytton Avenue   Palo Alto, CA 94301 
(NeXT Mail accepted)                    
Newsgroups: rec.sport.golf
From: maceache@fox.nstn.ns.ca (Tim Maceachern)
Subject: Re: Rules, Rules and more Rules
Organization: NSTN Network Operations Centre, Nova Scotia, Canada
Date: Fri, 31 Jul 1992 13:49:18 GMT

>In article <1992Jul31.020928.7458@nas.nasa.gov>, dking@raul.nas.nasa.gov (Dan King) writes:
>|> I was out playing a casual round of golf with a buddy.  No big deal
>|> match just a couple dollar nassau.  I was preparing to putt and I
>|> accidentally got to close to the ball during my practice swing routine.
>|> I just clipped the ball with my putter and it moved a few feet.  I
>|> picked up the ball and replaced it.  I then made the putt.  We got to
>|> discussing this once the hole was done.  I was under the impression
>|> that there was no penalty for this because of the definition of a
>|> stroke, there must be intent to move the ball.  My buddie thought it
>|> might be a penalty.  I got out my trusty USGA Rules of Golf book.
>|> I first looked up Rule 14 regarding striking the ball.  No problem
>|> there.  I had no intention of fairly striking the ball and moving it
>|> forward.  This is why my situation was different than Donna Andrews.
>|> So now it was off to rule 18-2.
>|> 
>|> Rule 18 is Ball Moved, deflected or stopped.
>|> 
>|> 18-2.  By Player, Partner, Caddie or Equipment.
>|> 
>|> a. GENERAL
>|> When a player's ball is in play, if:
>        ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>There is your key, the ball was in play and you moved it.  1 stroke penalty.

Further to this, if you hit the ball with a practise swing on the tee,
before the ball is in play, there is no penalty.  Tee it up again.

*******************************************************************
*         Tim MacEachern         * Tim_MacEachern@hawk.nstn.ns.ca *
*     Software Kinetics Ltd.     *  or maceache@hawk.nstn.ns.ca   *
* Dartmouth, Nova Scotia, Canada *                                *
*           Opinions expressed are the author's only              *
*******************************************************************
From: bhoughto@sedona.intel.com (Blair P. Houghton)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.golf
Subject: Re: practice makes perfect????
Date: 30 Jul 92 17:13:26 GMT
Organization: Intel Corp., Chandler, Arizona

In article <JEFFK.92Jul29172957@dosXX.med.utah.edu> jeffk@dosXX.med.utah.edu (Jeff Knell) writes:
>In golf, not all of the traps are filled with sand (heavy, dude).  
>The search for the "mechanical thought" that will transform one's 
>swing is endless.

Not for me.  I place in my mind the idea that I'm back in
ClubMasters, trying out the used drivers by hitting into
the netting.  That's where I hit mine the straightest and
easiest.  Part of that is the feeling I had then of
swinging like Freddy Couples.  Fluid and long.

When I get it right, the ball goes a mile and straight,
and people often remark about the way it looked.

Any other time, I'm overpowering the ball and the club
doesn't feel right for the swing.

It's that golf-shop swing that made me buy the club, so why
should I change it just because I'm on the tee?

				--Blair
				  "Yes, honey, I'm thinking of you..."
From: tope@enea.se (Tommy Petersson)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.golf
Subject: Re: Rules: Ground Under Repair
Date: 27 Jul 92 15:18:13 GMT
Organization: Enea Data AB

mzimmers@netcom.com (Michael Zimmers) writes:
- In article <cmhaar-250792141000@mac2867-2.chem.nwu.edu> cmhaar@casbah.acns.nwu.edu (Chris Haar) writes:
- 
- >My approach shot to the green went long and landed on the far side;
- >however, the greenskeepers were doing some minor construction where my ball
- >landed, i.e., ground under repair.
- >
- >My question: Where do I seek relief?  
- 
- Rule 25-1b(i) Through the Green:  If the ball lies _through_the_green_,
- the point on the _course_ nearest to where the ball lies shall be 
- determined which (a) is not nearer the hole, (b) avoids interference
- by the condition, and (c) is not in a _hazard_ or on a _putting_green_.
- The player shall lift the ball and drop it without penalty within one
- club-length of the point thus determined on ground which fulfills (a),
- (b) and (c) above.
- 
- (Underlined terms denote official USGA terminology.)
- 
- >If my ball lands in ground under
- >repair, I am allowed to seek relief anywhere along the original path of
- >flight of the ball as long as the ball is moved no closer to the hole,
- >correct?  
- 
- If you're read above, you now know this is wrong.  The path of a ball
- is impossible to replicate or prove, and as such has no significance
- in the application of any rule, except for the tiny part of a path that
- designates the point at which a ball entered a hazard.
- 
- >But since my ball went over the green, I had a choice between
- >moving it closer to the hole or out into some really nasty undergrowth,
- >which is unfair because had the ground not been under repair, I would have
- >had a good lie in short grass. 

Since you don't need to follow the flight path you will probably still
be on the fairway. The closest spot sideways out of the GUR will
normally (but not always) give you a reasonable lie.

- 
- 1. You don't *have* to take the relief.
- 

Sometimes you have to, in the local rules there may be mandatory drop
from GUR.

- 2. Golf, like life, isn't always fair.
- 

Correct.

- >This situation was not addressed in the
- >local course rules, and I'm curious how USGA rules apply.
- 
- The reason it wasn't addressed by local rules is probably because
- -- 
- Michael Zimmers                                    |  Home:  408 996 1984
- SoftHelp                                           |  Work:  408 996 1965
- Software Solutions for Open Systems                |  Data:  408 996 1974
-- 
=============================================================================
 Tommy Petersson              tope@enea.se              Enea Data AB, Sweden
=============================================================================
Newsgroups: rec.sport.golf