HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: hepfox@ccwf.cc.utexas.edu (Dave Peyton)
Newsgroups: alt.fan.furry
Subject: Re: Furries and sexuality (again)
Date: 9 Apr 92 00:38:52 GMT
Organization: The University of Texas at Austin, Austin TX

In article <1992Apr3.223622.3544@iscsvax.uni.edu> peacock5293@iscsvax.uni.edu (Greywolf) writes:
>In article <69702@ut-emx.uucp>, hepfox@ccwf.cc.utexas.edu (Dave Peyton) writes:
>
>> events like ConFurence from being shut down by crusading Christian
>> fundamentalist types, and get on with the business of being furry.
>
>crusading Christian fundamentalist types, huh?  (sigh)  You'd think that
>Christians == Nazis or something (and I'm almost certain there are some who
>would try to argue that point)...
>
Oy.  Greywolf, you of all people should know me better than that!  The only
reason I even *mentioned* Christian fundamentalists is that something like
this apparently *did* happen at the last ConFurence.  By now, I thought that
was common knowledge in alt.fan.furry.

I never said -- nor do I believe -- that all Christians, or even all 
fundamentalists, are bent on banning every publication that so much as
hints at something sexual.  But the reality is that there ARE such
people out there.  And if we believe that no one should tell us what
we can and can't read when we get to be adults (and I hope all furries
believe that), then we need to make sure that the rest of the world
continues not to take such people seriously.



					^Dave^
					hepfox@ccwf.cc.utexas.edu

---------------------------------------------------------------------
Affurmative Action!              |  'Uh, gee, Erica, that's very
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Messages (tel.): +1 512 346-8293 |  'Well, actually, I was counting
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---------------------------------------------------------------------
(How much moss would a MOSFET fete if a MOSFET could fete moss?)
From: jrd@frame.com (James Drew)
Newsgroups: alt.fan.furry
Subject: ZINE: Ciao! #4 is available
Date: 10 Apr 92 21:58:39 GMT

Ciao! #4 is now available... ("only two and half months late," he mumbles.)

Ciao! is a fanzine focusing on the Comics Industry's presentation of "issues."
Published approximately quarterly, each issue features an interview with people
in the the comics industry whose work tends to deal with issues, or is
otherwise somehow controversial (past interviewees have included Donna Barr,
Trina Robbins, and cat yronwode and Dean Mullaney).  Also appearing in each
issue are reviews of various comics, articles taking a broader look, and even
original artwork and fiction.  (All profits from sales of Ciao! are donated to
the Comic Book Legal Defense Fund.  It's the right thing to do.)

Ciao! #4 is an anthropomorphic-themed issue.  The featured interview is with
Larry Marder, creators of "Tales of the Beanworld."  Other contents include
reviews of a number of comics (including Furrlough, Touch, Yo: the First
Hepcats Book, and Sheep Shots, for the furry crowd; Real War Stories and Epic
Lite for all audiences) and a Straight from the Hart (a furry soap opera)
vignette and cover.

For ordering information for Ciao! #4 or earlier issues, send me e-mail.

Ciao! #5 is scheduled to be published by the end of May.  Submission request
announcements will show up in rec.arts.comics, comix, and soc.motss shortly.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
                             |     Every time I go to the beach, I have to
Jim Drew                     | smile when I see how ridiculous people look with
jrd@frame.com                | vivid white sunscreen just on their noses.  That
(Furry: Randy Puritan)       | smile is the only way I can keep from laughing
"Innocent, but not naive."   | out loud.  When I went to the nude beach, and
B2h t w- c k s g+(p) rv p    | saw where else that sunscreen goes, I almost
S8/5 g l+ y+ o+ a+ u++- j++  | went into convulsions.
{opinions: mine != frame's}  |        - Marc Lynx, "Once More Into the Briefs,
                             | 				Dear Friend"
From: Nicolai.Shapero@f524.n102.z1.fidonet.org (Nicolai Shapero)
Newsgroups: alt.fan.furry
Subject: Re: Furry Famdom--present and future
Date: Tue, 07 Apr 92 20:37:30 PDT
Organization: FidoNet node 1:102/524 - StormGate Aerie, Los Angeles CA

On <Apr 07 13:18>, Greywolf wrote:

 G>I don't recall 
 G>who all and
 G>what all one would find "furry" in Minneapolis, though...

Isn't Reed Waller out that way?  I'd think HE'D qualify
as a furry...wouldn't you?  :-)

==========================================
=Nicolai.Shapero@f524.n102.z1.fidonet.org=
==========================================
 



--  

Nicolai Shapero
Internet: Nicolai.Shapero@f524.n102.z1.fidonet.org
Compuserve: >internet:Nicolai.Shapero@f524.n102.z1.fidonet.org
From: Darren.Hanson@f271.n103.z1.fidonet.org (Darren Hanson)
Newsgroups: alt.fan.furry
Subject: Furries and sexuality (again)
Date: Thu, 09 Apr 92 14:57:00 PDT
Organization: FidoNet node 1:103/271 - Otter Limits BBS, Westminster CA

Nicolai Shapero wrote:
 > On <Apr 08 17:38>, Dave Peyton wrote:

 > DP> The only reason I even *mentioned* Christian fundamentalists
 > DP> is that something like this apparently *did* happen at the
 > DP> last ConFurence.  By now, I thought that was common knowledge
 > DP> in alt.fan.furry.

 > It wasn't even common knowledge at the last ConFurence.  I was
 > there, and was not aware that Fundies were up in arms about
 > anything to do with the convention.  What happened?

I'm not even sure what you're replying to, Nicolai. Must be some
sort of propogation problem. Anyway, I was there too (at the Con)
and would love to hear what supposedly happened....besides my
handcuffed juggling that is....

Brightest Blessings
   Darren Hanson
      --- ---

--  

Darren Hanson
Internet: Darren.Hanson@f271.n103.z1.fidonet.org
Compuserve: >internet:Darren.Hanson@f271.n103.z1.fidonet.org
Newsgroups: alt.fan.furry
From: dgreen@jarthur.claremont.edu (David 'Mishael' Green)
Subject: Re: Furries and sexuality (again)
Organization: Harvey Mudd College, Claremont, CA 91711
Date: Tue, 7 Apr 1992 23:39:50 GMT

In article <1992Apr7.154717.3625@iscsvax.uni.edu> peacock5293@iscsvax.uni.edu (Greywolf) writes:
->In article <1992Apr7.072818.11351@muddcs.claremont.edu>, dgreen@jarthur.claremont.edu (David 'Mishael' Green) writes:
->> What, do you mean that if I can't say, "Hey, can we talk about something else,
->> this makes me really uncomfortable."?  That strikes me as a conceivable reason
->
->Makes sense to me, but I'm not sure how well that point will go over.  =) 
->After all, let's say that I wanted to talk about a Christian furry comic here,
->and in the course of things actually mentioned some sort of religious points
->(gasp!).  Inevitably, it would make *somebody* uncomfortable.  Or, maybe if I
->talk about the latest issue of Red Shetland, somebody might feel really
->uncomfortable with all the violence...
->
->Not that I'm totally against the point, but I'm afraid I can't totally agree
->with the point, either.  (I'll have to think on this one...)

Hmm, looks like I'm going to have to qualify what I was trying to say here.
I was referring to private or relatively private conversations, for the most
part.  Admittedly, in a large forum such as this, there's probably going to be
something to bother everybody.  When you happen to be with just a few people,
though, and a topic like that springs up, I don't think that it's unreasonable
to say something like that.  (On the other hand, if you're not bothered a lot
by it, it might be polite to simply ignore it if possible.  I suppose a bit of
it depends on the intensity of your feelings.)

->All I know is that, whichever way I turn in furrydom, I can't seem to escape
->blatant sexual themes all over the place ... I mean, I don't even feel
->comfortable showing my folks any of the 'zines my art shows up in, because it
->might be just across the page from something that would make my mom freak out. 
*nod* Indeed.  I didn't even give a second thought to buying a CF T-shirt while
I was there at least partly because I knew that I wouldn't be able to wear it
at home without bothering my parents..  Some people like erotica, and I have
no argument with that.  But when, like at CF3, the erotica is used on the
stuff that 'represents' the genre (like on the T-shirts), then some people are
going to be alienated.  (It may work the other way, too, that some people won't
get any furry stuff unless it is erotica, but I suspect that that population is
going to be lower.  IMAO.)
->-- 
->-Jordan            ..      PEACOCK5293@iscsvax.uni.edu
->                  .OO.     Jordan Peacock (Jordan Greywolf)
->                  O/\O     (New Address):  1610 Parker
->                   --                      Cedar Falls, IA  50613
-- 
dgreen@jarthur.claremont.edu				   David "Mishael" Green
		    Have you scritched your local Furry today?
********************************************************************************
Life is too confusing for novices; we should hire professionals to do it for us.
From: mauser@INTERCON.COM (Richard Chandler)
Newsgroups: alt.fan.furry
Subject: Art books (was: Re: We *are* taking ourselves too seriously)
Date: 8 Apr 92 21:06:49 GMT

Noel Sez Re: art books:
> 	Now, I believe every fan has a right to own and carry around an art 
> book and have reasonable expectations about getting something drawn in   
> them. But I also believe that an artist has a right to ask for some money,  
> a favor, or flatly refuse if neither is supplied.

As a rule of thumb, unless the artist is a friend of yours and glad to do it 
for you, handing over $5 for a reasonably complete pencil sketch of just a 
character (no backgrounds or anything) is about right.  If you have a book, 
expect to offer that much.  For even more goodwill, don't mention money, but 
hand them a fiver when they hand you your book.  (I've yet to see someone use 
a five-spot for a bookmark, but that sounds like a good idea to me).

Of course, sometimes the artists can be just as rude and accept someone's 
book, and carry it around for a day, not doing anything.  If you don't have 
time, say so.

In any case, bitching that you don't like the sketch you got is very bad 
form, especially if you didn't pay for it.  (Of course, showing people what 
you got from Joe Blow for $5 is a great bit of market response).

(Hmmm, why do I seem to be following up so many of Noel's posts?  This is 
becoming and ugly habit.)

Anyway, I now have two books, one is a blank that I was given and I have yet 
to shove it in anyone's face.  The other is about quarter size and I've been 
accumulating various people's charicatures of me.

Oh, and one last point, even though you've paid an artist to draw a picture 
for you, while you own the physical picture, the artist still has a copyright 
on it.  You can't go and publish it without the artist's permission unless 
you've expressly purchased the rights too.

Newsgroups: alt.fan.furry,rec.arts.sf.misc
From: jbh55289@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (Josh 'K' Hopkins)
Subject: Re: Denial of Humanity
Organization: University of Illinois at Urbana
Date: Mon, 13 Apr 1992 22:16:53 GMT

jdnicoll@watyew.uwaterloo.ca (James Davis Nicoll) writes:

>In article <1992Apr11.201527.5753@deeptht.santa-cruz.ca.us> rstevew@deeptht.santa-cruz.ca.us (Richard Steven Walz) writes:
>>
>>I can agree basically, Steve, but there is a difference between just a
>>few hundred years of developmental difference and a lust for riches
>>and 100 million year lead. Our social institutions might seem to lag
>>our technology, but not by much.

>	Why are you assuming the ability to successfully wage war is a 
>trait which would be selected against? Perhaps pre-emptive genocidal attacks 
>are a very successful method of suvival on the galactic stage; if so, we
>could expect warmongers to persist longer than their victims.

>								James Nicoll

	Good point.  Believe it or not, things like wars, ice ages and 
mega-asteroid impacts can serve to advance, not slow down, evolution.  The
value of an individual to biological evolution is limited.  Cultural evolution
is another question, but I don't see the absolute end to war as very likely or
even neccesarily advantageous from certain points of view.  And why oh why
would you assume a 100 million year lead?  Robotic travel to the stars may
well be within our grasp by the end of the next century.  Human travel could
certainly be feasible in a thousand years or less.


			Josh Hopkins
From: anash@uhunix.uhcc.hawaii.edu (Dana Uehara c/o Andrew Nash)
Newsgroups: alt.fan.furry
Subject: Re: Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles
Date: 8 Apr 92 07:19:58 GMT
Article-I.D.: news.1992Apr8.071958.23297
Reply-To: anash@uhunix.uhcc.hawaii.edu (Dana Uehara c/o Andrew Nash)
Organization: Toonaholics Anonymous, Turtleholics Anonymous, DA-Holics Anonymous

In article <1992Apr6.233711.3602@iscsvax.uni.edu> peacock5293@iscsvax.uni.edu (Greywolf) writes:
>What about Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles?  I recall a *looooong* time ago being
>amused when I first saw a copy of TMNT in black and white ... Is there a time
>when TMNT used to be considered part of the small press furrydom?  Is TMNT (the
>non-kiddie-Saturday-morning version) still being printed?  (If so, *my* comic
>shop's not carrying it!  =)  )  Anyway, if there happen to be any TMNT experts
>out there who happen to have the historical background of the terrapin terrors
>handy, I'd certainly be interested in listening...
>

As far as I know there are at least four TMNT graphic novels, which are the
color reprints of the original TMNT comic book series (all except for #1
are pretty well done, IMHO).  #1 and #3 are also supposed to have "never-before
published stories".

There's also a compilation of (B&W) TMNT stories called "The Collected Tales
of the TMNTs" and I think I saw another B&W TMNT series (no title on the cover
though). 

No mention of cowabunga or pizza in either the TMNT GNs or the Collected Tales.
(I heard that those were created just for the cartoon series).  

The cartoon series is okay, but I like the GNs and Collected Tales better.

The only thing is, it's kinda hard to tell the Turtles apart, unless you know
their weapons.  Their masks are all the same color and they *don't* wear the
first initials of their names on their belts in the GNs/Collected Tales.


------Dana Uehara [c/o <anash@uhunix.uhcc.hawaii.edu> (Andrew Nash)]-------
"Oh no, not another piece of furniture?"
"* sigh * ...."				-- TMNT #1
From: Kay.Shapero@f524.n102.z1.fidonet.org (Kay Shapero)
Sender: NewsMeister@mcws.fidonet.org
Newsgroups: alt.fan.furry
Subject: CF3 Fundie rumor
Date: Wed, 15 Apr 1992 08:54:59 -0700

On <Apr 10 20:25>, John Alan Stanley wrote to All:

 JA>Not to me, and I was one of the people running it.  What exactly 
 JA>are you
 JA>referring to here?  I'd sure like to know if we were shut down by 
 JA>the
 JA>fundagelicals; they didn't tell _me_ about it... <pout>  :-)

           A LITTLE DISSERTATION ON SPONTANEOUS GENERATION
                          Words: Kay Shapero
                 Tune: "Drivel", by Dr. Jane Robinson
             (inspired by "Quibble", by Allan D. Burrows)

First you come home from the con and then are overheard to comment 
that you thought it was so fun you'd bet the Fundies sure would hate 
it
     Oh.. oh... rumor....
Then the guy who overheard you and who missed the whole convention 
tells another friend some Fundies came and found the whole thing 
sinful
     Oh.. oh... rumor....

CHORUS:   Rumor, she get 'round
          Rumor, she get 'round

Then the friend to which he tells this tells another friend about it 
"Did ya hear how all those Fundies came to picket the convention?" 
     Oh.. oh... rumor.....
And this party of the fourth part speaks to party number two who says 
"I'm really not surprised that they would try to shut the con down."
     Oh.. oh... rumor.....

Chorus

And someone with a net account gets onto the computer and then posts a 
message saying Fundies shut down the convention
     Oh ho.. oh no... rumor....
Where lots of other people who weren't there become appalled and say 
"We've got to clean our act up or we can't throw more conventions."
     Oh ho.. oh no... rumor....

Chorus

Now the party of the first part (who attended the convention) calls 
the BBS and finds the fen upset about some Fundies
     Oh ho.. oh no... rumor....
He's convinced he must have missed it so inquires just what had hap-
pened and gets fifty different versions all of which the tellers swear 
to. 
     Oh ho.. oh ho.. rumor....

Chorus

And still the rumor spreads with all the speed of summer lightning til 
it finally hits the Chairman who is SURE it didn't happen.
     Oh ho.. oh ho... rumor....
But the message "no that's nonsense!" lags behind the urban legend 
which becomes enshrined forever in the history of fandom.
     Ever... lasting... rumor....

Chorus (2x)
  
words copyright Kay Shapero, 1992


 * Origin: StormGate Aerie: FurNet's First System! (1:102/524)
From: tyger@bluemoon.rn.com (Dale Huffman)
Subject: Re: What is the Prancing Skiltaire?
Organization: Blue Moon BBS ((614) 868-998[024])
Date: Tue, 07 Apr 92 00:25:13 EDT

First off,  the Prancing Skiltare is the Home of Mark Merleno, and the 
conFURance con crew.. about eight people live now..
 
as for the character race of the Skiltares, they are a poor choise for a 
powergamer..  first off there pacifistic critters,  Two there electronic 
attack is as powerful as an electric eel's shock, although they can direct 
it, and can build up a one shot charge of killing voltage very few 
minutes, they do so only in defence of themselves.  Three.  there big area 
of strength is in PSI..  they can talk to persons orbitinng in a starship, 
while on a planet..  But they can not attack using PSI, except by 
reflecting an attacking made on them.
Four.  they are small quadterpeds, standing about 3and a half feet tall.

 This is from
     tyger@bluemoon.rn.com
who doesn't have their own obnoxious signature yet
From: amelman@orion.oac.uci.edu (Neko1)
Subject: Rock-a-Doodle GIF's anybody?
Newsgroups: alt.fan.furry
Organization: University of California, Irvine
Date: 8 Apr 92 17:59:03 GMT



   Does anyone have (can get, can scan in) Rock-a-Doodle GIF's, and put them
up on tezuka?  It would be appreciated.

*******************************************************************************
 The essential writer's .sig - By Avi Melman    amelman@orion.oac.uci.edu
 NitroCoon lives, The Peacemakers are BACK,
 And Kyle's in a real JAM!!                       The Vektor BBS
    /! /     ___                                  (213) 938-4788
   / !/ itro/__ oon 2386 - Creator & Author       1200-38400 baud
   "Don't worry, it's insured." - NitroCoon
*******************************************************************************
From: Kay.Shapero@f524.n102.z1.fidonet.org (Kay Shapero)
Newsgroups: alt.fan.furry
Subject: Re: Furries and sexuality (again)
Date: Fri, 10 Apr 92 12:43:23 PDT
Organization: FidoNet node 1:102/524 - StormGate Aerie, Los Angeles CA

On <Apr 07 16:39>, David 'Mishael' Green wrote to All:

 D'>*nod* Indeed.  I didn't even give a second thought to buying a CF 
 D'>T-shirt while
 D'>I was there at least partly because I knew that I wouldn't be 
 D'>able to wear it
 D'>at home without bothering my parents..  Some people like erotica, 

Actually my main problem with this year's convention shirt was not 
really the pose, it was the colors.  That acid green and garish orange
have the affect of taking a pose that was mildly suggestive (I do think
that tail should have been allowed to hang down a bit) and making it 
downright tacky.  As a line drawing, it would have not been all that
bad.  



--  

Kay Shapero
Internet: Kay.Shapero@f524.n102.z1.fidonet.org
Compuserve: >internet:Kay.Shapero@f524.n102.z1.fidonet.org
From: Kay.Shapero@f524.n102.z1.fidonet.org (Kay Shapero)
Newsgroups: alt.fan.furry
Subject: more anthro notes
Date: 13 Apr 92 19:45:03 GMT
Organization: FidoNet node 1:102/524 - StormGate Aerie, Los Angeles CA

And yet another observation of an anthropological nature.  It has 
always seemed something of a paradox, that the more tolerant an organ-
ization as a whole may be, the more prone it seems to internal squab-
bles. Contrary to popular opinion, this does not mean that the organi-
zation as a whole is hypocritical, nor that individual members are 
necessarily hypocritical either.  The problem, ironically enough, is 
precisely that the more tolerant the organization, the more diverse 
the membership.  The more diverse the membership, the more members of 
different groups can be found therein.  The more different groups 
represented, the more likely that groups which are rivals, or have 
other reasons to dislike each other will be contained.  So sooner or 
later, you have members of rival groups confronting each other within 
the more tolerant group as a whole.  For example, let us take the 
United States of America.  Now despite some of the problems involving 
immigration that this organization has had, the US is actually pretty 
tolerant; anyone born on its territory is automatically a citizen, 
regardless of ancestry, opinion, sex, whatever.  Some may find them-
selves treated differently because of these factors, but they have no 
bearing on actual citizenship.  Certain criminals can lose their 
rights to some of the normal features of citizenship such as the right 
to vote, but still remain nominally citizens.  Now, within the US of A 
we find such natural enemies as the American Nazi Party and the Jewish 
Defense League; the Ku Klux Klan and the Black Panthers; and a host of 
others.  But for good or ill, all remain part of the organization as a 
whole.

Accordingly, alas, it would seem inevitable that within any reasonably 
tolerant hobby group you will find complaints by members of one sub-
group of the larger culture-as-a-whole, that members of another sub-
group are a) being favored, b) visible, and being mistaken for the 
group as a whole, or c) included at all.  (That a and b are pretty 
subjective complaints is somewhat beside the point here.)  There are 
several possible end results of this.  First, and most drastic, the 
group falls apart, leaving nothing.  Less drastic, the group subdi-
vides into multiple smaller ones, each less tolerant than the original 
one, so that members of each group feel more comfortable with the 
folks surrounding them since they're more similar).  Finally, the 
group hangs tough, and lets those individuals who simply can't handle 
this much tolerance drop out if they please.  (For what they do after-
wards, see my earlier article on the subject.)

I believe all of us can think of a few examples of this; they will be 
left as an exercise for the reader...



--  

Kay Shapero
Internet: Kay.Shapero@f524.n102.z1.fidonet.org
Compuserve: >internet:Kay.Shapero@f524.n102.z1.fidonet.org
Newsgroups: alt.fan.furry,rec.arts.sf.misc
From: jdnicoll@watyew.uwaterloo.ca (James Davis Nicoll)
Subject: Re: Denial of Humanity
Organization: University of Waterloo
Date: Mon, 13 Apr 1992 00:38:21 GMT

In article <1992Apr11.201527.5753@deeptht.santa-cruz.ca.us> rstevew@deeptht.santa-cruz.ca.us (Richard Steven Walz) writes:
>
>I can agree basically, Steve, but there is a difference between just a
>few hundred years of developmental difference and a lust for riches
>and 100 million year lead. Our social institutions might seem to lag
>our technology, but not by much.

	Why are you assuming the ability to successfully wage war is a 
trait which would be selected against? Perhaps pre-emptive genocidal attacks 
are a very successful method of suvival on the galactic stage; if so, we
could expect warmongers to persist longer than their victims.

								James Nicoll

Newsgroups: alt.fan.furry