HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
Newsgroups: rec.food.veg
Date: Sat, 19 Dec 1992 20:20:24 -0500 
From: "David F. McWade" <dm3o+@andrew.cmu.edu>
Subject: Re: Pets and animal rights



>Dave, I'm glad to see that you're still around.  I guess you've
>busy these days, or is Abhay right in suggesting that you
>are tired of the quibbles and flames?

Or just tired, period.  And reading rec.food.veg is like looking at the same 
narratives over and over...... of course, I am rather burnt out in general.

>Anyway, take care and have a good Vegetarian Holiday Season.

>					ted

Why thank you.  For Christmas I would like a clean apartment.
As well, enjoy yourself this holiday.

Dave
Newsgroups: rec.food.veg
From: zaphod@ctrg.rri.uwo.ca (Lance R. Bailey)
Subject: lacto-vegan burgers
Reply-To: zaphod@ctrg.rri.uwo.ca
Organization: University of Western Ontario
Distribution: na
Date: Wed, 16 Dec 1992 11:51:04 GMT

when i became a vegetarian (gosh, 2, 3 years ago, i can't even remember), i 
swore i would not eat "meat fakes" -- tofu dogs, "pork" cutlets, &c. with the 
exception of TVP (lest my spagetti sauce become spicy tomato soup :).

but the restaurant to which i regularily go began offering a veggie burger. and
it's pretty good. i don't say REALLY good, because it is a little too close to 
meat bugers for my likes.

since i shifted to lacto-vegan 3/4 months ago, I started to worry about the
binder in the burger, suspecting eggs, well last night i finally remembered to
ask and they brought out the ingedients label for me.

no eggs. they do have malt in it, which would make a nice sticky binding agent.

the Company is Yves "foods" based out of Vancouver BC, Canada-land. Perhaps
someone in Vancouver, or Burnaby (Ted...) could find a number and address in 
the phone book and post it, i'd like to get some of these for summer BBQ.
--
Lance R. Bailey  System/Network Manager         Robarts Research Institute
     NeXT/email: zaphod@ctrg.rri.uwo.ca    box: Clinical Trials Resources Group
            fax: +1 519 663 3789                P.O. Box 5015, 100 Perth Dr.
            vox: +1 519 663 3787 x4108          London, Canada N6A 5K8
Newsgroups: rec.food.veg
From: altar@beaufort.sfu.ca (Ted Wayn Altar)
Subject: Re: Vegetarians or not vegetarians?
Organization: Simon Fraser University, Burnaby, B.C., Canada
Date: Fri, 18 Dec 1992 17:03:30 GMT



claudiak@i88.isc.com (Claudia Kale (STG)) writes:

>Then why do you wish to know the dietary habits of other posters?
>To what possible use can you apply that knowledge, if not to let it
>influence your perception of credibility? 


I guess I can't speak for Donata, but for myself I think it is
of helpful to know where people are coming from.  Also,
it helps to put a human face on the otherwise anonymous, faceless
names here.  Maybe by helping to personalize things just a little
we might in turn be better able to understand each other a little
more.  

Just my .02 cents worth.  :-)
.

					Happy Holiday Season,
						ted
From: warwick@cs.uq.oz.au (Warwick Allison)
Newsgroups: rec.food.veg
Subject: Re: Let them eat grass!
Date: 17 Dec 92 01:36:22 GMT
Reply-To: warwick@cs.uq.oz.au

In <1473@eouk13.eoe.co.uk> pwestlak@eoe.co.uk (Peter Westlake) writes:

>A few years ago a wildlife film was made that showed a lion attacking
>a zebra. The film was fairly gory (being an accurate reflection of a
>lion's table manners) and at one scene, showing the lion biting into
>the underparts of the zebra, an outraged member of the audience leaped
>up and cried, "This is outrageous! The lions must be made to eat grass!"


Wacky indeed.


The vegetarian premise to which I subscribe says that humans should
not eat meat because of the suffering and indignity is inflicts upon
the animal.

It says nothing of lions.  And why should it?  Does ANY moral or ethic have
meaning outside the actions of humans?  I doubt the Pope thinks lions should
pray before they prey.

I certainly acknowledge that Death is part of Life.  I just don't consider
the production of meat in our society to be a valid treatment of animals.

Does the ends justify the means?  What if the ends is unnecessary?

My first reaction to the suggestion that lions should be MADE to eat
grass is that this would be a total indignation.  I feed fish to my cat.
My cat catches lizards and grasshoppers all the time.  Munch munch munch
they go.

Lions aren't people.  They are not [to be] bound by out ethics.

(No health argument works wither - carnivores thrive on flesh... it's hard
to get bowel cancer when your intestine is only a few feet long)

(Environmental argument?  Sorry - lions have eaten zebras for quite a long
time now... certainly a longer than humans have dined on dust-bowl-reared
cattle)

(Religious?  Anything is possible, but the only case I know of is Jehovah's
Witnesses that [in my understanding] believe that the lion will quite
literally lay down with the lamb, and there will be no more death [or, I
assume, birth], after Judgement Day)

--
Warwick
--
  _-_|\      warwick@cs.uq.oz.au            /Disclaimer:
 /     * <-- Computer Science Department,  /  
 \_.-._/     University of Queensland,    /   C references are NULL && void*
      v      Brisbane, Australia.        /  
Newsgroups: rec.food.veg
From: kkv@inel.gov (Jamie J Ferguson)
Subject: Re: Pets and animal rights
Organization: Idaho National Engineering Laboratory, Idaho Falls, Idaho
Date: Thu, 17 Dec 92 19:42:33 GMT

In article <BzF1HM.ACy@news.cso.uiuc.edu> jbeason@s.psych.uiuc.edu (Joseph E. Beason) writes:
>is it right to breed animals that eat meat, or
>primarily meat. 


I have 3 cats and 3 dogs, and I am a vegetarian.  I don't feel bad 
feeding my animals meat because I believe that that is what they
should eat.  I don't breed my animals because there are far too
many homeless animals in the world, but if everyone would be
reponsible and get their pets spayed or neutered I would be in favor
of some breeding because otherwise cats & dogs (as we know them)
would cease to exist.  There are too many irresponsible people in
the world for this to happen, and therefore I will continue to take
in cats & dogs when I can (which is not now -- I've reached my limit!)
and I'll continue to feed them meat. 


I'm sure this will lead to an interesting discussion...


Jamie


========== long legal disclaimer follows, press n to skip ===========

Neither the United States Government or the Idaho National Engineering
Laboratory or any of their employees, makes any warranty, whatsoever,
implied, or assumes any legal liability or responsibility regarding any
information, disclosed, or represents that its use would not infringe
privately owned rights.  No specific reference constitutes or implies
endorsement, recommendation, or favoring by the United States
Government or the Idaho National Engineering Laboratory.  The views and
opinions expressed herein do not necessarily reflect those of the
United States Government or the Idaho National Engineering Laboratory,
and shall not be used for advertising or product endorsement purposes.
From: vinson@shiva.seas.upenn.edu (Jack Vinson)
Newsgroups: rec.food.veg
Subject: Re: Nature's Burger
Date: 15 Dec 92 15:45:17 GMT
Organization: The University of Pennsylvania


Is Nature's Burger the box with the "nice" picture of a young girl with
some animals around her?  If I remember correctly, you can send away for a
larger print of that painting. 

I wasn't terribly impressed with this mix.  Truth be told, I haven't been
impressed with the three or four store-bought veggie burger mixes that I
have tried.  Of course, I am not really looking for a meat substitute, when
I want a burger, it is something that I would like to easily cook on a
barbeque.

My solution?  Well, they are "(The New) Laurel's Kitchen" solutions.  My
favorite is her "Neat Ball" recipe which can easily be flattened and
grilled.  The other, which we just made a week or so ago, is her recipe for
Walnut-Oatmeal burgers which were pretty yummy.  These can't really be
grilled, but they are quite tasty.  I think she also has a recipe for
something called "Lentil Loaf" which is the same concept as meat loaf, but
quite good and meatless.  I think this recipe could be flattened into
patties, if that is your bag.

Personally, I like the "neat ball" recipe the best.  Summer finds me
carting a container of it around to many barbeques.

The Purple Puddle Eater
Jack Vinson			vinson@unagi.cis.upenn.edu     
Newsgroups: rec.food.veg
From: tthiel@cs.uiuc.edu (Terry Thiel)
Subject: Re: "Sausage"
Organization: University of Illinois, Dept. of Comp. Sci., Urbana, IL
Date: Mon, 14 Dec 1992 15:42:40 GMT

exusag@exu.ericsson.se (Serena Gilbert,cs,x0364) writes:
>Does anyone have a reciepe for making "Sausage" with TVP?  I am looking for a spicy
>"sausage" that holds together.
>Thanks,
>-Serena

ADM which makes the "harvestburger" also makes a very good sausage product
which they call "breakfast patties".  I see them in alot of stores around here
(Illinois) perhaps because the company is nearby.
-Terry
Newsgroups: rec.food.veg
From: jereese@silver.ucs.indiana.edu (jean reese)
Subject: Re: vegan bacon?
Organization: Indiana University
Date: Thu, 17 Dec 1992 13:43:39 GMT

In article <1992Dec16.145912.27150@eng.umd.edu> dbader@eng.umd.edu (David Bader) writes:
>
>In article <1992Dec15.185828.2758@drycas.club.cc.cmu.edu>, red_trek@drycas.club.cc.cmu.edu writes:
>>Does anyone know of something on the market that resembles the 
>>taste of bacon, or at least bacon fat?  I'd sure like to 
>
>I believe in my local Giant supermarket, there is a brand (I believe) called
>"Morning Sunshine" that carries Breakfast items which contain "No Animal Fat" and
>I think are vegetarian.  They have bacon, sausage, and hamburger -like products
>made from TVP.  
>
>ppppppps,
>   david

That would probably be Morningstar Farms.

Jean

-- 
	"It is my view that the  vegetarian manner  of living by its 
	purely physical effect on the  human temperament  would most 
	beneficially influence the lot of mankind." - Albert Einstein
	++++++++++++++++jereese@silver.ucs.indiana.edu+++++++++++++++
Newsgroups: rec.food.veg
From: tms@cs.umd.edu (Tom Swiss (not Swift, not Suiss, Swiss!))
Newsgroups: rec.food.veg
Subject: Re: Medicine & the Mall
Date: 14 Dec 92 17:33:58 GMT
Organization: The Reality Liberation Front (pixels to the people!)

young@serum.kodak.com writes:
>In article <62786@mimsy.umd.edu> tms@cs.umd.edu (Tom Swiss (not Swift, not Suiss, Swiss!)) writes:
>
>>     Simply not true. To feel pain - or to feel anything at all - a brain
>>or equivalent structure is required. Simple reaction to damage is not the
>>same as pain - a very simple mechanism can detect and react to damage.
>
>	Ah, here we have it at last: the standard semantic retreat to the
>	dictionary definition of "pain", rather than consideration of the
>	basic principles involved.  What makes you think that "pain" is not
>	the animal equivalent to the plant's "mechanism to detect and react
>	to damage?"

     It seems to me that the basic principle of "pain" requires more
than detection and reaction to damage. I can hook up some sensors to
my PC and, with only a few lines of code, make it scream bloody murder
whenever anmyone touches it. I don't think that qualifies as "pain".
There's nothing going on inside that has the pain; there is not an
_experience_ of pain. Now, if we had some Turing-test-passing true AI
program with the same sort or arangement, that would be a different
kettle of horses of another color.

>P.S. You might want to consider setting follow-ups to t.p.a. as someone has
>	already suggested.  I won't do it because I know that some do not
>	receive the "talk" groups.

     I get my share of flamage on r.f.v, thanks; if I read t.p.a, I think
I'd never get any rest.

===============================================================================
Tom Swiss/tms@cs.umd.edu  |  "Born to die"   |   Keep your laws off my brain!
     "What's so funny 'bout peace, love and understanding?" - Nick Lowe 
                     Keep your values off my family.
      "There are some microorganisms that exhibit characteristics of
       both plants and animals.  When exposed to light, they undergo
       photosynthesis and when the lights go out, they turn into
       animals.  But then again, don't we all?"
From: rcj10@cus.cam.ac.uk (Craig Jamieson)
Subject: Re: meat eaters (was: Re: Gun Control Petition)
Followup-To: can.general,rec.food.veg
Summary: Nonsense
Keywords: immaculate conception crayfish counterpanes 
Organization: U of Cambridge, England
Distribution: World
Date: Fri, 18 Dec 1992 11:59:15 GMT

>>>is a PROPER vegetarian diet. You may want to include some shellfish in
>>>there if you want.

>>Of course, if you eat shellfish or other animals you are not a vegetarian.

>i know of a number of vegetarians who have small anomalies in their diet,
>like eggs, or shellfish or fish.

I know of a number of virgins who have the small anomaly of having sex
now and again. I think it is cute that they think of themselves as
virgins, just as a fish-eater might care to be called a vegetarian, or
might like to be called a parsnip, or might like to be called a purple 
counterpane. Why should words refer to specific things and have set
definitions accepted by users of that language, that only leads to
boring precision and understanding. Relax, be imprecise, ignore
dictionary definitions.

Clearly a vegetarian is not a vegetarian if eating fish.

What then is a semi-vegetarian? Someone who eats vegetables and
very occasionally eats a semi-detached house?

Craig Jamieson
[father of one daughter, considering claiming semi-virgin status for himself]
Cambridge

                       :-)

FLAMES TO: gae@cm.cf.ac.uk please, ask for precise directions for any
landmark in Paris... 

Newsgroups: rec.food.veg
From: claudiak@i88.isc.com (Claudia Kale (STG))
Subject: Re: Vegetarians or not vegetarians?
Organization: INTERACTIVE Systems Corporation, Naperville, IL
Date: Wed, 16 Dec 1992 19:50:33 GMT

In article <50590@shamash.cdc.com> ldh@svl.cdc.com (Lawrence D. Hare) writes:
(I confess I'm not entirely sure whether I'm addressing Lawrence or
Donata here - one name appears on the account, another at the end of
the article)

>am a vegan vegetarian interested in exchanging and learning ideas from
>other vegetarians. 

I am a human being interested in learning, period. After all, it never
hurts to know everything *:o)

>
>I am surprised that very few people here bother to say whether they are
>vegetarian or not when criticizing. I find it puzzling for example, as I
>do not have a great deal of free time, why a couple of recurrent writers
>(Steve Dyer and Rich Young) post so much. They never say it, but they
>certainly do not sound like dedicated vegetarians. Are they dev
>a life study of vegetarianism without reaping the benefits? Or simply
>have lots of free time while chewing on dead animals? I am using these
>two as an example because they are so often found in here. 

Donata/Lawrence, I find it puzzling that you think that one's dietary
habits lend legitimacy to one's contributions to this forum. Does
being a vegetarian automatically enhance the logic or veracity of
one's posting? Does being an omnivore automatically bestow a hidden
agenda upon one's posting? One of the things I like about net news
is that I don't know the age/educational background/ethnic affiliation/
religion/favorite color/sex (in some cases)/hatsize/whatever about
posters: all "arguments" and opinions must stand or fall on their
own logical merits and/or documentation.

I am also baffled about your concern over the volume of postings by
Mr. Dyer and Mr. Young. I think that if somebody really cared to count
the words contributed by various posters, they'd find that Mr. Dyer
and Mr. Young *combined* have posted fewer words than (say) Mr. Altar,
or Michael Traub, or Abhay Bulsari. So what has the volume of one's
postings got to do with anything? I am most emphatically *not* trying
to speak on behalf of Rich, Steve, Ted, Michael or Abhay - all of
those posters have ably proven that they can do that for themselves!
Nor am I trying to say that any of these guys posts too much. I am
just pointing out that the volume of one's postings has absolutely
nothing to do with the validity of one's comments.

>
>Many thanks for the courtesy of those who bother to be clear when they
>post controversial material, replies and rebuttals.
>

I don't see that any of us has been discourteous to you by not telling
you everything about our dietary habits. When you discuss political
issues or current events with others do you wish to know their
political party and ethnic information before you assess the validity
of their contributions to the discussion? Probably not.

> [...]
>
>Donata
>-----------------------------------
>Donata M. Valli c/o ldh@svl.cdc.com

Cheers,
Claudia (.sigless)
From: tara@starburst.umd.edu (Tara McDermott)
Newsgroups: rec.food.veg
Subject: Re: Medicine & the Mall
Date: 18 Dec 92 05:39:58 GMT

avi@hawk.imagen.com (avi zelmanov) writes:

>|> AAAAHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!
>|> How many times do I have to make my point before this person will listen to
>|> me?  It doesn't seem very complicated.
>|> Animals are higher on the food chain.
>|> EATING ANIMALS KILLS MORE PLANTS THAN EATING PLANTS.

>   I NEVER said that plants being conscious are a reason to eat meat !
>   What I did say and still say, is that USING THE NON-HARMING ARGUMENT 
>   AS A MOTIVATION TO BE VEGETARIAN IS INCONSISTENT WITH THE FACTS AND LOGIC !!!

>   In other words, If one becomes a vegetarian because of health-reasons for
>   example, that's fine ! But if one says that he/she would rather not eat meat
>   because he/she "loves animals and thinks killing animals is bad" then that 
>   would make him/her either an ignorant or a hypocrite ! 

You could easily tack on the phrase "...so I choose to eat a
vegetarian diet and thus kill less overall" to "loves animals and
thinks killing animals is bad" and still be conforming to
a strict set of ethics.

How can a vegetarian be a hypicrite?  I'm vegan.  I am vegan because
the thought of killing and consuming a sentient creature such as a
cow, pig, horse or chicken disgusts and revolts me.  I think it is
bad.  Thus I do not eat them, and eat plants instead!  I have no
problem eating them, because I do not recognize them as sentient
creatures, even though they are alive.  I fail to see how someone can
fault my logic.  Either way, I'm eating way less plants than I was
during my meat-consumption days.  Thus I am saving many many more
plants as well as many many more animals.  

Tara
--
Tara McDermott               
tara@starburst.umd.edu       
I eat tofu, and I vote.
From: Rosemary Waigh <rwaigh@zooid.guild.org>
Subject: Vegan battered cauliflower (was Re: McDonalds Veggie burger)
Reply-To: rwaigh@zooid.UUCP (Rosemary Waigh)
Organization: The Zoo of Ids
Date: Sun, 20 Dec 1992 04:48:25 GMT

In article <1992Dec17.224324.8811@oracle.us.oracle.com> schiles@us.oracle.com writes:
> 
>
>My mind boggles to imagine a "vegetarian battered product." 
>Batter-fried tofu chunks?   Batter-fried cauliflower?  Oh my!
>
That reminds me, here as a good (though high-fat) recipe from _Madhur_
_Jaffrey's_World_of_the_East_Vegetarian_Cooking_:

Vegetable Pakoris
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Batter:
1.5 cups chickpea flour
.75 tsp salt
.5 tsp baking soda
.25 tsp tumeric
.5 tsp ground cumin
.75 tsp ground coriander
.75 tsp whole ajwain seeds (or whole cumin seeds)
.25 tsp freshly ground black pepper
.25 tsp cayenne pepper

vegetable oil for deep frying

vegetables in bits (I like cauliflower broken in pieces like popcorn sortof)

Sift chickpea flour, salt, and baking soda together into a bowl.  Add all the
other spices for the batter.  Very slowly and gradually pour in 1.25 cups
water, beating with a fork or a wooden spoon as you do so.  You should have a
smooth batter.

Heat the oil in a wok or other utensil for deep frying over a medium flame. 
The temperature of the oil should be between 350 and 375 F.

Dip vegies in batter, deep fry until done (takes a while).

Serve with sauces for dipping--chutneys, chili sauce, ketchup, ...
Newsgroups: rec.food.veg
From: zkym02@hou.amoco.com (Keerthi Y. McIntosh)
Subject: Re: Lowfat French fries.. baking vs. frying
Reply-To: zkym02@hou.amoco.com
Organization: Amoco
Date: Mon, 14 Dec 1992 15:04:22 GMT


Has anyone figured out a good way to make Felaful in the oven?  It is a family favorite but I stopped making it because of the frying.

Thanks in advance,		

Keerthi
From: shaula@csugrad.cs.vt.edu (Shaula "moo" Doyle)
Newsgroups: rec.food.veg
Subject: What's the best Juicer?
Keywords: Juicer
Date: 12 Dec 92 01:16:42 GMT
Followup-To: shaula@csugrad.cs.vt.edu
Organization: Virginia Tech Computer Science Dept, Blacksburg, VA

My mom wants a juicer for xmas, and she said she wanted to
check consumer report, but I figure the real experts are here.
I know I saw discussion about juicers when I read r.f.v a year
or so ago, but alas, nothing was in the FAQ.  I would much
appreciate any juicer purchase advice anyone would care to send
me, and I would be glad to put together a summary to post for
consideration for the FAQ.

thanks,
Shaula

"But don't panic. Base eight is just like base 10 really...
	if you're missing two fingers." -Tom Lehrer
Newsgroups: rec.food.veg
From: barry@macadam.mpce.mq.edu.au (Barry Sanders)
Subject: Guiness beer and meat
Keywords: Guiness,beer
Organization: Macquarie University, Australia.
Date: Mon, 14 Dec 1992 23:39:26 GMT

There was some discussion in this newsgroup about meat products in
Guiness beer and since then I have quit drinking it.  However, I
have been met by skepticism from other vegetarians and would 
appreciate some information/evidence/proof about its contents.
Any help would be appreciated.  Thanks.
Barry