HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: jsco@buzzardroost.az.stratus.com (Jeff Scott)
Newsgroups: rec.food.historic
Subject: Re: Mead recipes?
Date: 29 Aug 92 17:26:21 GMT

In article <1992Aug28.193416.9904@progress.com> schuldy@progress.COM (Mark  
Schuldenfrei) writes:
[]And, controversy sneaks onto the pastoral grounds of
[]rec.food.historic.  (OK, not much... :-)
[]
[]Julie Kangas asks if there are smaller brewing containers than 5  
gallons,
[]since "48 bottles is a lot of beer".
[]
[]Arun Welch answers:
[]  Well, if you're gonna take a couple years to brew and drink it, then
[]  48 really isn't nearly enough... 

I would have to agree with Arun, I have made a couple of batches of mead  
and 48 is not nearly enough. My friends and I like what we've made and my  
last batch didn't even get to age very long before it was consumed. You'll  
find that once you have a taste for this stuff it becomes difficult to  
just let it sit there and age. My partner in brewing comes over and says  
that one of the bottles "is calling to him, begging to be set free." And  
sure enough, if we open the one that's pleading, the rest of the bottles  
get jealous and they start screaming as well. ;^)

A question for you mead makers...

I have made a few batches and while they taste wonderful, how does one  
know what "traditional mead" is supposed to taste like? Is there a  
commercial product that you can buy to compare the homemade against?

jsco
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Newsgroups: rec.food.historic
From: cigno@sgi.com (Kevin Walsh)
Subject: roley poley EEL recipes
Organization: Silicon Graphics, Inc.
Date: Thu, 27 Aug 92 15:38:06 GMT

	Does anybody have recipes for eel?  Also, recommendations
	on how to find and clean eel?  I like the smoked eel served
	in Japanese restaurants, I would like to try something a 
	little fresher. 

--
------
"I've always thought of Boston traffic as Brownian motion with
evil intent."  -- Don Coolidge coolidge@speaker.sgi.com
Newsgroups: rec.food.historic
From: julie@eddie.jpl.nasa.gov (Julie Kangas)
Subject: Re: toxins in food
Organization: Jet Propulsion Laboratory, Pasadena, CA
Date: Tue, 1 Sep 1992 19:52:28 GMT

I was catching up on my reading when I noticed an article in
Science News that is relevant to this topic.  Germander and
comfrey teas and capsules may cause hepatitis.  A researcher
at the University of Arizona, Ryan Huxtable, says that
the chemical in germander and comfrey that causes hepatitis has
not yet been identified.  Huxtable advises against daily use
of herbal products.

Julie
#include "std_disclaimer.h"
#include "witty_sig.h"
Newsgroups: rec.food.historic
From: lrellick@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (Lorraine M Rellick)
Subject: the second of two buttermilk recipes
Organization: The Ohio State University
Date: Tue, 1 Sep 1992 17:22:12 GMT

 The second of two buttermilk recipes

Lemon Poppyseed cake

Mix all in the same bowl (again ...I use a wisk but you may have to put some 
muscle in it!)

1/2 cup oil
1 1/2 cup sugar
2 eggs
1 teaspoon vanilla
1/2 teaspoon almond flavor
rind of 1/2 lemon (approx)
1 1/2 cup buttermilk
2 Tablespoons (or more) poppyseeds
2 cups flour
1/2 teaspoon baking powder
3/4 teaspoon baking soda
1/2 teaspoon salt

Bake at 350 in a 9X13 inch pan for about 35 minutes or until golden
brown on top and springs back to touch.
Ice with:

Lemon glaze
juice and rind from 1 lemon
enough powdered sugar to make thick (not too thick)

spread the cool cake with a thin coating of this glaze
From: sbloch@silver.cs.umanitoba.ca (Stephen Bloch)
Newsgroups: rec.food.historic
Subject: Re: toxins in food
Date: 2 Sep 92 21:20:48 GMT
Organization: Computer Science, University of Manitoba, Winnipeg, Canada

bayla@casbah.acns.nwu.edu (Bayla Singer) writes:
>There's a red mold which grows on wheat, and is widely thought to be the
>source of hallucinations (and charges of witchcraft, etc) in stored wheat
>during the middle ages.

I presume you're speaking of ergot.  I don't know whether it grows on
wheat, but I'd certainly believe it: it was first discovered on rye, and
I've been warned that if one collects wild rice one should watch for pink
grains, and discard the whole batch if any are found for this same reason.
I think the toxin is called "ergotin"; whatever the name, LSD is derived
(by a long, involved process -- don't try this at home!) from it.

-- 
					Stephen Bloch
				sbloch@silver.cs.umanitoba.ca
Newsgroups: rec.food.historic
From: justin@inmet.camb.inmet.com (Justin du Coeur MKA Mark Waks)
Subject: Re: Imported food (was curry)
Organization: Many, Sundry, and Odd
	<1992Aug14.132424.15211@hemlock.cray.com>
	<JUSTIN92Aug17.164045@inmet.camb.inmet.com>
	<bellmar.714161109@gargoyle.uchicago.edu>
	<JUSTIN92Aug24.171659@inmet.camb.inmet.com>
Date: Tue, 25 Aug 1992 21:45:04 GMT

Well, I've managed to get through to David Friedman, who publishes the
Cookbook Collection, and have at least the information on Volume 2.
(Volume 2 is the stuff that isn't available anywhere else; I believe
that Volume 1 collects existing out-of-copyright cookbooks.) I don't
remember the exact contents of Volume 2, but it's pretty large, and
contains at least the Manuscrito Anonimo, a sizeable Islamic cookbook.

From David:
>People can order Volume II for $8+$1 shipping; my current address
>is 413 E. Buffalo St., Ithaca, NY 14850. It may take a while, since
>all the copies I brought with me to Pennsic were sold. I have a few
>more in Chicago, which will be sent to me soon; when they run out
>I will have to do another printing.

I recommend it highly; off the top of my head, I recall that Volume
2 also contains a translation of Chiquart (not so much by way of
recipes, but the most interesting source I know in terms of period
food *presentation*), as well as several others...

As I've said, I'm hoping that David will find time to check in here
once he's settled in at Cornell; at the moment, his Net connection
is still through uchicago, which is a nuisance...

				-- Justin du Coeur

Random Quote du Jour:

"[By the way, I've always wondered about this: Before he became Caspar
 the Friendly Ghost, was he Caspar the Friendly Terminally Ill Child,
 Caspar the Friendly About To Be Brutally Murdered Child, or Caspar the
 Friendly Horribly Mangled in a Terrible Accident Child?]"
		-- Dr. Foo
Newsgroups: rec.food.historic
From: Ramon Tate
Subject: Re: toxins in food
Organization: Computer Systems Lab., NIH
Date: Mon, 31 Aug 1992 22:32:44 GMT

In article <1992Aug31.173549.20606@mahendo.jpl.nasa.gov>
julie@eddie.jpl.nasa.gov (Julie Kangas) writes:
>In article <1992Aug31.170808.16809@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu>
dcryberg@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (David J Cryberg) writes:
>>A friend is preparing to do a seminar on toxins that are naturally
>>occuring in common foods that we eat.  It is hard tofind sources for
>
>Well, it sometimes seems to me that researchers are finding that
>everything can cause cancer.  Of course the question is, how
>much do you have to eat of it to get cancer?  It has been
>found that capsaicin (the hot component in chiles) fails a certain 
>test used to indicate carcinogenic chemicals.  They figure a pound 
>of it is enough to cause cancer.  The only trouble is that in order 
>to eat a pound of capsaicin you'd probably have to eat the entire 
>world's annual chile crop.
>
>Some years ago there was also a scare going around about basil 
>and some people I knew stopped eating pesto.  Again, I would guess
>that you'd have to eat more than anyone in their right mind would eat 
>before you got cancer.
>
>There is definitely a toxin in pufferfish (?) that causes several
>deaths a year in Japan.  If the fish aren't caught and prepared
>a certain way they are very poisonous.  People still eat them
>though.
>
>>
>>Much appreciated!!!   It would be good to compare historic sources with
>>current articles.
>
>Tomatoes and potatoes were intially looked upon with
>suspicion by Europeans since the plants are in the same family
>as nightshade.
>
>Julie
>#include "std_disclaimer.h"
>#include "witty_sig.h"
>
There are numerous books available on this topic, although I don't recall
off-hand any titles. As far as a common foods that have toxic components, the
lima bean is way up there. It contains appreciable quantities of a cyanogenic
glycoside (i.e. it digests to yield cyanide!), and some varieties have even
been responsible for deaths when eaten in even small quantities.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ramon L. Tate
Computer Systems Laboratory, DCRT
National Institutes of Health
Bethesda, MD 20892                               tate@faxcsl.dcrt.nih.gov

Newsgroups: rec.food.historic
From: pat@mtl.mit.edu (Patricia E. Varley)
Subject: Rare or unusual seeds
Organization: MIT Microsystems Technology Laboratories
Date: Thu, 3 Sep 1992 19:54:25 GMT



Someone was looking for a place to buy rare/wild/unusual seeds the
other day.  I just happened across an address in cleaning out my
files.  This address was listed as having the above seeds for
flowers, plants, veges, etc.:

	Seed Savers Exchange
	Rural Route 1, Box 239
	Decorah, IA 52101

Another post listed it as Rural Route 3.  Does anyone know the
correct route?

I hope this is of some use.
Pat
From: erck03@castle.ed.ac.uk (John Wexler)
Newsgroups: rec.food.historic
Subject: Re: Haybox
Date: 4 Sep 92 15:23:42 GMT
Organization: Edinburgh University Computing Service

The haybox is known in Britain.  I've no idea of its history, or whether
it was ever widespread, or where it originated.  In the sixties, before
crockpots were around, Penguin published a book called "slow cookery"
about exactly this technique, with a description of a rather simpler
haybox, and the suggestion that you could get the same effect by leaving
the pot in an oven at minimum temperature all day.  Some of the recipes
were old, and some were adaptations by the author of things which are
normally cooked more quickly.  It was a bit of a curiosity, which
implies that not many people at that time remembered haybox cooking. 
Apart from certifying that slow cookery does work, my only comment is
that the Tucson cooker described by Leslie is a very refined article,
and you can try the technique with a much simpler box (and lid) stuffed
with straw - no linings or muslin are required! You don't need to leave
the box in the sun.  The insulation is so good that it would probably
work even if you stood it in a snowdrift. 

    John Wexler
    Edinburgh
Newsgroups: rec.food.historic
From: wismith@amelia.nas.nasa.gov (William R. Smith)
Subject: Re: toxins in food
Organization: NAS, NASA Ames Research Center, Moffett Field, CA
Date: Wed, 2 Sep 92 22:17:22 GMT

David J Cryberg writes:
	A friend is preparing to do a seminar on toxins that are naturally
	occuring in common foods that we eat.  It is hard tofind sources for



Every book I have seen on mushroom identification has a section on 
mushroom toxins.  There seem to be quite a variety of toxins in various
mushroom species.  Leaf thru several mushroom books for the poisons
section, usually at the front or back of the book.



William Smith
Intel, SSD
Newsgroups: rec.food.historic
From: cav@bnr.ca (Rick Cavasin)
Subject: Re: Mead recipes?
Reply-To: cav@bnr.ca (Rick Cavasin)
Organization: Bell-Northern Research Ltd.
Date: Fri, 28 Aug 92 14:20:50 GMT

In article <1992Aug26.122526.25466@progress.com>, schuldy@progress.COM (Mark Schuldenfrei) writes:
|> One last thing... (:-)
|> 
|> Terry Nutter (My friend, Angharad...) wrote that she stores sparkling
|> meads in 2-liter plastic bottles.  I've read enough debates on the
|> net to know that this is far from a settled issue, but the folks who
|> said not to use them for alcoholic beverage storage were chemists...
|> Certainly, I've tasted meads that were aged for two or three years
|> in soda bottles, and they tasted like plastic.  It may not be safe.
|> 
|> Certainly, Terry's preferred weak meads are safer in those.  But, there
|> is no reason to use anything but glass, if you live in a state that
|> recycles.  I turn my used soda bottles into free Grolsch bottles at
|> the recycling center.
|> 
|> As long as I'm posting, I like Terry's suggestion about storing new
|> bottles of mead in a large plastic trash can with a lid.  I intend
|> to start doing that at once.  Thank's, Terry.
|> 
|> 	schuldy (Tibor in the SCA)
|> --
|> Mark Schuldenfrei (schuldy@progress.com)

In Canada, the use of Plastic bottles for Beer is fairly common.  These
are the green PET bottles, available in most brewing supply stores in
both 1/2 litre and 1 litre sizes.  I believe they are identical to those
used for 7-up and Sprite.  In Canada, reuseable plastic replacement caps
are available for them (they also work on glass screw cap bottles).  They
work much better than trying to reuse the metal caps that come on the
softdrink bottles, but I understand that they are not so easy to come by
in some areas of the U.S..  The PET bottles are used by some microbreweries,
and many homebrewers with no ill effects that I've ever heard of.  I typically
bottle some fraction of each batch of beer in PET bottles of various sizes.
I have never been able to detect any difference in taste compared to the
glass bottles, even after prolonged storage.  I have however been cautioned
by the folks at the brewing supply store that these bottles are NOT suitable
for wine because of the higher acidity.  So for mead, I guess the suitablility
would depend on whether or not you add fruit/acid blend.  The higher alcohol
content of mead/wine may also be a factor.  I understand that the PET bottle/
cap combination is designed to release excess pressure.

re:hydrometers - I use them in brewing as a double check on my instincts.
                 I bottle when I 'feel' the beer/wine/mead is ready, and
                 take a hydrometer reading as a check. 
                 

One advantage of the PET bottle is it allows you to monitor carbonation:
Just squeeze.  This is one argument for always using at least one PET bottle
in a batch.

I lost the better part of a batch of pomegranate melomel when it decided to start
fermenting again after bottling.  I would have liked to have seen just how
far my eyes bulged when I saw that cork lying in the middle of the basement
floor.

Cheers,
Rick C. (Balderik in the SCA - Hi Anghard and Tibor)
From: rlafolle@apssgi.nswc.navy.mil (Robert D. LaFollette)
Newsgroups: rec.food.historic
Subject: Cooking Courses
Date: 28 Aug 92 12:05:24 GMT
Organization: Naval Surface Warfare Center


	Excuse me if this is an improper question for this group, but does
anyone know of cooking courses in the Washingtion D.C. , VA, MD, NC, TN areas.
I am particularly interested in courses that would last anywhere from 1 day to a
week.

	Thank you in advance !
		
Newsgroups: rec.food.historic
From: schuldy@progress.COM (Mark Schuldenfrei)
Subject: Re: Mead recipes?
Organization: Progress Software Corp.
Date: Wed, 26 Aug 1992 20:01:32 GMT

David Adams asks, about my recommendation against using 2-liter
plastic soda bottles for storing mead:

  Can you give any more information about why it may not be safe?

  Why doesn't the soda taste like plastic?  

  Why doesn't vinegar taste like plastic?

  Why doesn't ...

Geez David, for a nice guy, you ask a lot of questions (:-).

I don't know, or rather, I cannot remember well enough to provide
you with definitive information.  But, remember, alcohol is not
vinegar, or soda, or other products.  Alcohol is a different sort
of solvent altogether.  Soda does contain a week acid (carbonic)
and vinegar contains a different week acid (acetic).  But that is
a different form of chemical from alcohol.

And, also, I tasted mead that had been stored for several years
in the bottle.  Perhaps after 3 years, soda and vinegar would
taste like plastic.  I dunno.  I remember being rather solidly
convinced it was a bad idea, but this is as convincing as I get.
If I had a good clue what the nature of the plastic's in those
bottles was, I could resurrect my old chemistry knowledge, and
get things completely wrong, in a correct sounding way. (:-)

Sorry I cannot provide more help.

	schuldy (Hardly at all sounding like his SCA counterpart)
--
Mark Schuldenfrei (schuldy@progress.com)
Newsgroups: rec.food.historic
From: bayla@casbah.acns.nwu.edu (Bayla Singer)
Subject: red micro-organism
Summary: not ergot
Organization: Northwestern University, Evanston, Illinois, USA
Date: Thu, 3 Sep 1992 20:08:01 GMT

A very helpful emailer has reminded me of the scientific name of the "red
micro-organism" that I didn't think was ergot -- it's Serratia marcescens
(we're not sure of the spelling) and basically harmless if breathed or
touched.   

It's a bacterium, not a mold: ergot is a mold (fungus).  

I'll try to find my original reference, to determine if I misremembered the
hallucination part: could be, that the witchcraft charges were because red
spots breaking out inexplicably on the stored communion hosts just *had* to
be caused by evil spirits... 

Thanks for your patience, everyone.

--bayla
From: erck03@castle.ed.ac.uk (John Wexler)
Newsgroups: rec.food.historic
Subject: Re: Boiled Pudding Question?
Date: 31 Aug 92 16:32:31 GMT
Organization: Edinburgh University Computing Service

In article <1992Aug31.091539.3295@ducvax.auburn.edu>, anvil@ducvax.auburn.edu writes:
|> Could someone please give me some information about boiled puddings? What are
|> their origins? What kind of cloth is the bag made?  The only kind of pudding
|> I know about is Jello instant.  Any info is appreciated. Also what the heck
|> are scounes (sp?). 

Baking was not widely used in domestic cookery until relatively
recently, since ovens used fuel inefficiently unless they were used for
large batches of food.  Boiling things in a pot was a more common
technique.  One large class of things which can be successfully cooked
that way consists of various kinds of dough, tightly wrapped in a cloth
(linen or cotton), and boiled.  "Pudding" seems to have meant just that
sort of food.  Surviving recipes (and some of these are still popular)
don't generally used yeast doughs; they are raised, if at all, with
baking powder or suchlike.  Generally they are heavy in texture and make
a solid filling food fit for heavy labour or cold weather.  The dough
can have dried fruit in, or jam may be folded into it, or it may be
flavoured with syrup/treacle/ginger or whatever takes your fancy, or it
can be savoury (producing a kind of huge dumpling), or it can enclose
some meat and gravy, or it may even be made of something other than
grain flour - e.g., pease pudding.  There's no clear distinction between
boiled puddings and steamed puddings, which are essentially the same
recipes but cooked in a bowl with a cloth tied over the top: the bowl
stands in a lidded pot, surrounded by boiling water, so the cooking
process is similar but very little water seeps in to the dough. 
Christmas pudding is perhaps the best-known example, but it is an
exception to the general rule that steamed puddings are lighter in
texture than boiled puddings. 

Another close relative of the pudding uses an animal's stomach or a
length of gut to make the bag, instead of cloth.  These tend to be
stuffed with a savoury mixture, typically a mixture of grain or flour
and bits of animal - blood in some cases, minced offal in others. 
(There will usually be some spices or herbs in the mixture as well.)
These produce such things as black pudding (blutwurst, boudin, etc) and
haggis.  It's hard to draw the line between this class of food and
various kinds of sausage. 

Scones represent one of the other traditions of ovenless cookery,
although everybody makes them in the oven nowadays. But I won't write a
discourse on scones just now.

    John Wexler
    Edinburgh
Newsgroups: rec.food.historic
From: akatlas@athena.mit.edu (Alia Atlas)
Subject: Apples and fruit leather
Keywords: German
Organization: Massachusetts Institute of Technology
Date: Fri, 28 Aug 1992 05:54:46 GMT

Speaking of what is apparently fruit leather, I just found a recipe for a
similiar process with cherries and honey.  I'm not sure that it's quite the same
thing though.  The recipe is called a "fladen" or cake.  The recipe is from Ein
Buch von Guter Speise.

Basically, you take morello cherries, break off their stems and boil them until
they become dry with their own broth.  Then you pour the cherries out and let
them cool.  You pound the cherries through a cloth to strain them.  Then you
cover a wooden board with honey and pour the cherries on top.  You put the board
outside in a cool yard so that the mixture becomes dry.  When it's ready, you
dice it and sprinkle spices on top.  It is as something, which through boiling,
becomes a thicker juice.

I am curious if anyone knows of recipes which call for honey (as opposed to the
sugar and water mentioned earlier).  Any way, thought people might be interested.

Alia Atlas
From: leighann@sybase.com (Leigh Ann Hussey)
Newsgroups: rec.food.historic
Subject: Re: Mead recipes?
Date: 27 Aug 92 21:46:13 GMT
Organization: Banshee Brewing


I originally posted this on rec.crafts.brewing, but since the question
was raised here, I'm posting it again.  It's based on H.E. Bravery's Rose 
Mead, from HOME BREWING WITHOUT FAILURES.

Lavender Mead, January 1992

4lb honey			1/4t citric acid
1 pint lavender flowers		1/2t tannin powder
1/2t champagne yeast		1t yeast nutrient

Boil together honey and 1/2gal water for 5 min.  Put flowers with citric
acid and tannin in a gallon jug and pour the hot liquid over.  Let cool
in a sink of cold water to room temperature, then add yeast and
nutrient and further water to make a gallon plus a pint.  Add the
airlock.  Let ferment 1 week, then strain out flowers.  Set the lock on
again and ferment until all quiet.  Bottle and age.

Second Ferment: 112 days
Aging (so far): 117 days and already great.


Slainte!
	- Leigh Ann


Leigh Ann Hussey                                   leighann@sybase.com
"Turkeys, heresy, hops and beer / All came to England in the one year."
What year was it?
Answer: 1520
Newsgroups: rec.food.historic
From: dcryberg@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (David J Cryberg)
Subject: toxins in food
Organization: The Ohio State University
Date: Mon, 31 Aug 1992 17:08:08 GMT

A friend is preparing to do a seminar on toxins that are naturally
occuring in common foods that we eat.  It is hard tofind sources for
this kind of information.  If anyone has ideas I would appreciate
a response directly to her at:

     chozinsa@cgrb.orst.edu

Or, post to the network.  For example, eating too many raw green beans
is dangerous because of an enzyme present in the bean pod...or peanut
butter has carcinogenic properties....etc....

Any good ideas on places to begin researching this topic?
Much appreciated!!!   It would be good to compare historic sources with
current articles.

Thanks.
Newsgroups: rec.food.historic
From: julie@eddie.jpl.nasa.gov (Julie Kangas)
Subject: Re: roley poley EEL recipes
Organization: Jet Propulsion Laboratory, Pasadena, CA
Date: Thu, 27 Aug 1992 16:16:14 GMT

In article <p3nlftk@zola.esd.sgi.com> cigno@sgi.com (Kevin Walsh) writes:
>Subject: Re: roley poley EEL recipes

Shouldn't that be fish heads?!!?

fish heads, fish heads,
roley poley fish heads,
fish heads, fish heads,
eat them up YUM!

(if you've heard it, you know the high squeaky way you're supposed
to sing it.  if you haven't, well, i guess it is kinda strange)

Sorry, I just couldn't stop myself.

Julie
#include "std_disclaimer.h"
#include "witty_sig.h"
Newsgroups: rec.food.historic