HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: bbx!bbxrbk!russ@unmvax.cs.unm.edu (Russ Kepler)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: stupid shooter tricks
Date: 1 Sep 92 01:55:05 GMT
Organization: /etc/organization

In article <012D9C1FFDDFE01E46@VXC.UNCWIL.EDU> PATE@VXC.UNCWIL.EDU (BILL PATE, ADMIN. SERVICES, PATE@VXC.UNCWIL.EDU) writes:
#[story of world class skeet shooter on small-bore range]
#By the way, he got mad and left when someone brought up his un-safe
#gun handling.
#
#[MODERATOR: At that point, it doesn't much matter whether he goes away
#mad, just so he goes away .....]

Someone got kicked out of the city range here in Albuquerque for
unsafe handling recently.  I am not privy to the full story, but
evidently he was handling his firearm while folks were downrange and
wouldn't stop when told to. Other antisocial behaviours were
denomstrated until the fellow was escorted from the range and told not
to come back. 

Seems strange to me that someone would *want* to argue with a bunch of
armed folks at a firing range, but hey - it wasn't me.

-- 
.signature: not found.  Create?
From: rnoguchi@phoenix.princeton.edu (Ryan A. Noguchi)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: What are some famous actor's guns (i.e. James Bond's Walther)
Date: 2 Sep 92 20:55:32 GMT
Organization: Princeton University

In article <1992Sep2.065620.26984@sserve.cc.adfa.oz.au> ghm@ccadfa.cc.adfa.oz.au (Geoff Miller) writes:
#ghm@ccadfa.cc.adfa.oz.au (Geoff Miller) writes:
##mbh@sdphu1.ucsd.edu (Matt Harrington) writes:
#
###An example is that James Bond frequently uses a Walther PPK, if memory
###serves me correctly.
##		    Beretta .25, model unspecified
##		    Colt .45, long barrel
##		    S&W Centennial .38 Special
##		    Walther PPK
##		    Savage 99, .250/3000
##		    Sniper rifle (can't remember make) in Living Daylights
#
#For the sake of completeness, this last is identified in the book as a
#modified Winchester target rifle in .308 Win.  Of course, my list
#actually referred to the books, not to the films:-)
#
#Geoff Miller

The sniper rifle used in L.D. (the movie) was a Walther, WA-2000 
I believe.  You can clearly see the Walther "ribbon" logo on the right
side of the receiver above the trigger.  It's a bullpup design too.
 
- Ryan                               rnoguchi@phoenix.Princeton.EDU
===================================================================
"We, too, born to freedom, and believing in freedom, are willing to 
fight to maintain freedom. We, and all others who believe as deeply
as we do, would rather die on our feet than live on our knees."-FDR
===================================================================
From: bbx!bbxrbk!russ@unmvax.cs.unm.edu (Russ Kepler)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: 13mm Mauser T-gewer
Date: 27 Aug 92 13:22:34 GMT
Organization: /etc/organization

In article <1992Aug26.203459.29120@watson.ibm.com> breslau@watson.ibm.com (Art Breslau) writes:
#I have located a 13mm Mauser T-gewer (Tank und Flieger Abwehraffe) A.K.A. "Tank
#killer". Only about 15,800 made, weighs in at 39 lbs. I'm looking for chamber
#dimensions. handbook of cartridge conversions doesn't list them. Old Western
#Scrounger doesn't have ammo. Will need to have RCBS make up dies, then try and
#find brass to make up, let alone the projectiles. Checking with BATF on its
#status. Last I saw, thought it was on curio list.

You can use Ferrosafe to cast an image of the chamber of the rifle,
and take the dimensions from that.  Most die makers prefer that you
send the Ferrosafe image directly to them, and allow them to measure
it.  It has a predictable shrinkage, so it comes out of the chamber
easily yet has good repeatable dimensions.

Let me know if you *don't* find the dimensions - I'd like a chance to
buy into the outfit that makes Ferrosafe before your order shows up.

-- 
.signature: not found.  Create?
From: hollombe@polymath.tti.com (The Polymath)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: Concealed carry...
Date: 3 Sep 92 22:02:30 GMT
Organization: The Cat Factory

In article <tmi.715415198@well.sf.ca.us> tmi@well.sf.ca.us (Peter Kasler) writes:
}In <13400033@iftccu.boeing.com> bressler@iftccu.boeing.com (Rick Bressler) writes:
}
}#... All the professionals I've
}#talked to or read about recommend strong side waist level holster.  This
}#will generally give you the best speed on a draw and depending no your
}#normal mode of dress will often be very concealable.  
}
}	Speaking as a professional in this regard, I personally carry
}on my strong side at the waist. As a trainer who works with others who
}carry concealed on a regular basis, I also know that where/how to
}carry is very much a personal decision; what is right for one person
}may be wrong for another. It does seem to be the case, however, that
}new folks to constant-carry settle on strong side waist mode more than
}any other (usually only after trying just about every alternative).

Just to add another data point, I'm currently taking the NRA instructor's
course.  Among my classmates are three members of the LAPD, including
their head firearms instructor(!). _He_ carries concealed with a strong
side waist holster.  I had to watch closely for a while to get a hint that
it was there.

Note:  All three officers are larger than normal people.  They're all over
6" tall and of muscular build.  I don't know if that mode of carry would
work as well for someone of slighter dimensions.

The Polymath (aka: Jerry Hollombe, M.A., CDP, aka: hollombe@polymath.tti.com)
Head Robot Wrangler at Citicorp                   Turn the rascals out!
3100 Ocean Park Blvd.   (310) 450-9111, x2483     No incumbents in '92!
Santa Monica, CA  90405
From: erudnick@pica.army.mil (FSAC-SID)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: Colt AR/H-BAR/etc replacement stock question
Date: 26 Aug 92 22:58:02 GMT



Rich Cower writes:
#I have a Match H-BAR rifle from Colt, and my 11 year old daughter really
#likes to shoot it. The problem is the stock is a bit long for her. Would
#one of these CAR stocks fit it - and is there anything to watch for when
#buying one (ie..plastic vs. aluminum?) or installing one? Can I install it
#at home? The price ranges in SGN seem to be $39 to $79, but I'm not
#sure what the differences are.


Yes one of the CAR stocks would fit it just fine. The plastic $40
units will serve just as well as the aluminum: the production M4
Carbine version of the "CAR-15" uses plastic. The stock can be installed
using ordinary tools, but use of the special spanner is recommended
to avoid marring the round aluminum "stock nut". I'll also take the
time to recommend Duncan Long's "The AR-15/M16: a Complete Guide",
published by Paladin Press, which was indispensable when I built my
shorty AR-15 last year.


Ed Rudnicki     erudnick@pica.army.mil     All disclaimers apply
Protect the Second Amendment - boycott Ruger products
"That's not true," Bill hissed to his lawyer. "The facts are-"
"Don't worry about facts, Bill, no one else here does. Facts can't
alter this case."       -"Bill the Galactic Hero" Harry Harrison
From: kirk@picante.ico.isc.com (Kirk Webb)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: CA gun laws -- in cars (waS Re: Travelling help)
Date: 4 Sep 92 02:33:17 GMT
Organization: Eastman Kodak Boulder Development Center

In article <13400035@iftccu.boeing.com> bressler@iftccu.ca.boeing.com (Rick Bressler) writes:
#
/ iftccu:rec.guns / hollombe@polymath.tti.com (The Polymath) /  3:02 pm  Aug 31, 1992 /
#I read it a couple of weeks ago.  I was struck by Ayoob's willingness to
#enter situations I'd avoid -- possibly because he was armed.  He tells of
#one incident where he noticed a suspicious character hanging around a
#sub-freezing parking lot at night.  I'd have gone back to the hotel and
#gotten an escort, at least.  He kept going and walked into a trap that
#forced him to pull his gun.

#He's a real 'macho' sort of guy.  He's also got at least one black belt 
#plus lots of practical experience in such situations.  He still has a 
#police commission I believe.  Given this, (and I've heard some of these 
#stories first hand from him) 

He is now a captain in some New Hampshire police force.


#1) He may feel, (like many other cops) that he is never 'off duty.'

#2) He may have been driven by his gonads, rather than his head.

#3) He may have felt competent to handle the situation, and figured that 
#it was 'better him than some other poor defenseless bastard.'

#4) He may have already been close enough to the person that he didn't want 
#to turn his back.

#I've only spent a couple of days with the man, but I would bet on 
#some combination of all of the above.  I don't think he's stupid enough
#to put himself into a poor tactical position on purpose, so I'd 
#probably order the above, in order of importance, 4,1,3,2.


I would believe 4 and 1 (in that order).  He mentioned this incident in the
LFI 1 course I just finished.  It was in a city that had just been rated by
U.S.News & World Report as one of the 10 safest cities in the US, so he
definitely did not feel that he was in a "bad neighborhood".  From his
description, I got the impression that he was committed by the time he
realized the situation.

Are you going to ask for an escort everytime someone else is using the same
parking lot?  You cannot always tell ahead of time what someone's intentions
are.  Just because they are standing in a parking lot, you do not have
cause to have them arrested.
From: mike.federchuk@rose.com
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: Why a sawed-off shotg
Date: 1 Sep 92 13:16:41 GMT

Date Entered: 09-01-92 03:37


n9020351@henson.cc.wwu.edu (James Douglas Del-Vecchio) writes:

N9|There are 2" 12ga shells, I've seen them.  Why they are not more popular
  |is beyond me.

I think the simple answer is that no one imports them.  Two inch and 2 1/2"
shells are popular in Europe.

BTW, fellow Canadians, regardless of shell size, you are only allowed three
shells (one in the chamber, two in the magazine) in a shotgun, in Canada.  I
thought this only applied to hunting, but apparently it applies all the time.
So even though you could fit more of the shorter shells in a gun, you would
still be in violation of Canadian law.

Doubly odd is the fact that you can legally buy a gun with a magazine
extension!  Ie: Winchester 1300 Defender with pistol grip and 7 shell mag.
What gives?  This is kind of like selling a car that can do 220km/h, when the
speed limit is 100km/h

Regards,
Mike

Mike Federchuk              |
Burlington, Ontario, Canada |
mike.federchuk@rose.com     |
---
   OLX 2.2   Took an hour to bury the cat. Wouldn't stop moving!
   RoseMail 2.00 : Usenet: Rose Media - Hamilton (416) 575-5363
From: mwm@aps.anl.gov (Michael W. McDowell)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: clay targets and throwing machines
Date: 31 Aug 92 17:10:21 GMT
Organization: Argonne National Lab -- APS

Keywords

Hand throwers get my vote, if you have two or three people you can
throw some really difficult doubles and triples.  You can also simulate
many different types of birds and with a little practice, rabbits and 
other small game.:
From: schuette@roadkill.nrl.navy.mil (Larry Schuette)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Firestar .45ACP - first look
Date: 25 Aug 92 21:20:03 GMT



Someone asked about the Firestar .45ACP.  Here is my $.02.  Every-
thing that sounds like an opinion -- is.

I recently purchased a Firestar .45ACP.  This is the model recently 
reviewed in Guns and Ammo.  It is a compact (very) .45ACP.  Standard
magazine is 6 rounds.  It is a heavy (very) 39ozs, but is all steel.

It is easier for me to grip than a standard 1911A and the controls
are much more accessable (I'm 6' but don't have big hands). I really
like the feel of the hammer and safety (left and right handed).

Initial field striping (to clean off packing oil) showed no unusual
filing marks and overall workmanship appears very nice.

I fired the first 50 rounds at Mrytle Grove Range (Indian Head, MD) 
instead of eating lunch today.  The trigger is light, but a tad rough.  It
cleaned up alot in the first 20 rounds.  A trigger job, if at all
won't be thought about for at least another 400 rounds.  The gun is
much nicer to shoot than one would think.  It has less apparent recoil
(for me anyway) than a 1911A (well an AMT hardballer with a lot of work
done to it).  Because it is heavy, and because the barrel is low there
is no flip to speak of.  I fired several clips of semi wad/hydro/fmj 
(2 each) in each clip and there were no feeding problems.  It eats well.
It also has a really nice finger web guard for those of us who can't 
remember.

Accuracy wise I shot offhand, (two hand ) 4" groups with my Ruger MkII, 
and 8" groups with the Firestar at 22yards (weird Range setup).  
I expect I'll do better once the trigger smooths up.

Anyway, I bought it because of its size (compact) and caliber (.45) and
so far so good.  Also, InterArms is 5 minutes from my office, and if
you have a problem with a Star they just replace it (at least initially).

Larry 
    ----------------------------------------------------------------------
	"The quality of the kite matters little.  Success depends upon
		the man who sits in it."		BMv. Richthofen

Lawrence C. Schuette			  schuette@roadkill.nrl.navy.mil
Code 5133				  (202)767-2739  
Naval Research Laboratory		  (202)767-5561 (fax) 	
Washington D.C.	20375-5000
From: reid@metis.tti.com (Reid Kneeland)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: Stupid shooter tricks
Date: 28 Aug 92 15:07:06 GMT
Organization: Transaction Technology Inc.

In article <66861@hydra.gatech.EDU> vapspgd@prism.gatech.edu (Edward Hefter) writes:

#Don't carry a revolver "half-cocked" (is that where the phrase "going off
#half-cocked" comes from?)

Of course it is.  See also "lock, stock, and barrel", "flash in the
pan", "shooting your wad", etc.  Note that the images reflect flintlock
technology - that's how old these expressions are.

It always tickles me to hear an anti-gun person use phrases like
these.

=====================================================================
Reid Kneeland
reid@ttidca.tti.com  (that's MISTER reid@ttidca.tti.com to you!)
{philabs,psivax,pyramid,quad1,rdlvax,retix,rutgers}!ttidca!reid
Transaction Technology Inc., Santa Monica, CA, USA (310) 450-9111 x2499
The opinions expressed above do not necessarily etc etc...

Never trust a man who can count to 1,023 on his fingers.
From: smrtstr!syspb@uu.psi.com (Paul)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: What's the deal with Colt?
Date: 28 Aug 92 01:21:46 GMT
Organization: SmartStar Corp. / Signal Technolgy Inc.

I saw a Colt Anaconda 44mag in the store a few months ago.  When I went
back to buy it, it was gone.  It had a 6 in barrel.  Now the store says
they can't get any more of them because the factory workers are on
strike.  Is that true?  They said models with 4 in barrels are available,
but the 6 in barrel models are hard to get.  The same thing happened a
few years ago.  I saw a nice 38 special revolver called a Colt Agent.
It had an alloy frame and held 5 shots.  When I went back to get one
they said that Colt was on strike then too.  I never saw one of those
revolvers again, anywhere.  Why does Colt keep going on strike?
I heard a rumor that they were going to file for Chapter 11, too.  
Is that true?
From: syoung@pecanpi.UUCP (Stan Young)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: Mail call
Date: 29 Aug 92 02:59:26 GMT
Organization: Pecan Pi, Doraville, Georgia


In article <9208271336.aa11516@claudius.pica.army.mil> erudnick@pica.army.mil (FSAC-SID) writes:
#
<stuff deleted>
#
#In Gun Week there is reprinted a letter from Ruger General Counsel
#Sanetti to a California politician opposing the proposed ban on
#firearms with a melting point of less than ~800 F. The intent of the
#ban is to eliminate cast zinc as a material, but of course it would
#also affect Glock. Curiously, Ruger doesn't produce any firearms
#from either zinc or plastic (or do they?); perhaps the reaction to
                     ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^             
#Bill's TV appearance is having the desired effect.

Ed, I think you'll find that they DO have a gun with a "polymer" frame.
(Of course, I can't remember what they call it, but it is the .22 semi-auto
with the same grip angle as the 1911A1.)  Fairly new, but they ARE making one.

Hmm. I wonder how wood and synthetic rifle stocks would hold up to 800 deg. F?

#[MODERATOR: Comments on this latter topic that Ed sneaks in here should
#probably go to t.p.g. ... :-)  ]

(I'll confine myself in this post to the guns, to keep our esteemed Moderator's
blood pressure down in the safe zone :-)

-- 

Stan Young                                {emory, slammer}!pecanpi!syoung
From: ke4zv!gary@gatech.edu (Gary Coffman)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: Hand-loads for defense (was Re: Occasional Dud in Glock 20)
Date: 27 Aug 92 02:37:40 GMT
Organization: Gannett Technologies Group

In article <tmi.714380771@well.sf.ca.us> tmi@well.sf.ca.us (Peter Kasler) writes:
#California) is today. And the way things are going, some day in the
#not too distant future your smug little world might be shattered with
#the enactment of a few restrictive laws. And finally on this point, it
#is precisely folks such as you who increase the burden on the rest of
#us by persisting with foolish and naive notions such as you've posted
#here.
[deleted]
#	Thanks so much for the lesson. I'm certain you know of that
#which you write, probably as much or more than I do.

Mr. Kasler, you arrogance is astounding. Your shilling for the 
ammunition manufacturers would probably be more effective if you
were a bit more civil.

BTW *all* 18 police departments that I deal with shoot and carry
*reloaded* ammunition. If it's good enough for the cops, it should
be good enough for the civies.

Gary


[MODERATOR:  *sigh*.   Cease fire?]
From: rslugg@med.unc.edu (Robert Slugg)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: Why a sawed-off shotgun?
Date: 29 Aug 92 23:41:17 GMT
Organization: UNC-CH School of Medicine

One of the limits for barrel length is the magazine capacity.  Some of the
self defense shotguns have 20-21" barrels so there is room to store extra
shells.  As for velocity loss, at least down to the 20" range it is only
10 fps or less per inch of barrel.  I still wonder why there aren't 2 or 2
and 1/4" shotshells for home defense.  One could easily remove one of the
1/2" spacers to decrease overall shell length which would translate into
an increased magazine capacity.  I suspect the US Marshalls have shells
like these for their conceable shotguns, otherwise they are limited to 2
or 3 shells at most in the magazine.

Bob
From: mbh@sdphu1.ucsd.edu (Matt Harrington)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: What exactly is BLUEING?
Date: 31 Aug 92 22:02:12 GMT
Organization: Physics Department, UCSD


I've been trying to find out what is involved in the blueing process.  Is
it electrochemical?  Or is it just a chemical coating?  Maybe it's an
oxide that forms on the surface...  Anyone know?

				--Matt Harrington
From: dcwst8+@pitt.edu (David C Winters)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Beer (WAS: Re: Mas Ayoob to be in Seattle
Date: 26 Aug 92 22:58:16 GMT
Organization: University of Pittsburgh


{attribution line lost}
##|> If you do go, take him a bottle of Rolling Rock Beer and tell him that
##|> you heard about it on the net.

swatt%mickey@net.yale.edu (Alan Watt) writes:
##I don't know where he finds that stuff -- I swear he has a truckload
##delivered to his house daily.  Must be a regional brand?

U16244%uicvm.uic.edu@OHSTVMA.ACS.OHIO-STATE.EDU writes:
#I don't know about the truckload, but Rolling Rock is available in Chicago and
#the area.  Maybe that would entice him to visit even more if we developed a
#Chicago Rolling Rock campaign around the various gun clubs, if they want him
#to show up.

Rolling Rock beer is distributed more-or-less nationally; your mileage
may vary.  The stuff is brewed in Latrobe, which is a couple of hours'
drive from Pittsburgh.

I've tried the stuff; IMHO, it's as bad as any other beer.   :-)

--
David "Jester" Winters
dcwst8@unix.cis.pitt.edu *OR* winters@vms.cis.pitt.edu

	Illigitimi non carborundum
From: ke4zv!gary@gatech.edu (Gary Coffman)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: Should my first handgun be a .22? (Too wimpy for defense?)
Date: 27 Aug 92 13:22:38 GMT
Organization: Gannett Technologies Group

In article <1992Aug22.030015.3876@access.digex.com> dougnews@access.digex.com (Doug Humphrey) writes:
#
###	- A gun to bring backpacking for protection against bears and 
###	  general personal defense in the backcountry
#
#Bazooka?  GAU-8?  40mm grenades?  Actually, a 12 guage shotgun with
#slugs might be just the ticket for wandering around in bear country.
#Anyone ever hear of these being used on our big brown friends? Not 
#for offensive hunting (longer range) but for defensive action
#(short range and getting shorter fast!)

My only experience with bears was to let one eat my lunch while
I stayed up in the tree. However, let me relate a pig hunting
experience that might apply. In my younger days I thought it
exciting to hunt wild pigs on an abandoned WWII army base near
my home. Mostly these were domestic hogs that had escaped to
the wild, but there were a few European wild boars that some
thoughtful sportsman had imported and set free. 

I was making my way down a game trail in fairly heavy brush
when I turned a corner and spotted a large hog. The hog spotted
me at about the same time and immediately charged. The animal
was a 300 pound cross breed of Poland China and European boar.
I was carrying my 12 gauge Remington Mod 11 loaded with 5 rounds 
of 00 buck and commenced fire. As the range closed rapidly from
an initial 10 yards, I could see dust fly from the hide of the
hog with each solid hit. But the hog didn't slow in the least.
Finally I had to fend the hog off with the empty shotgun while
drawing my early model Ruger 44 Blackhawk. I dispatched the
hog with a single shot to the head from literally arm's length.
The barrel of the revolver was touching the hog's head at
discharge, and smoke and blood came out of the hog's ears.
It dropped like a stone at my feet.

The moral of this story is twofold. First, enraged animals
are hard to stop. Second, a shotgun isn't a wonderful stopper,
even when loaded with buckshot. It should be noted that we
routinely slaughtered hogs on the farm and dispatched them
with a single .22 round to the head. They dropped instantly.
But this maddened boar was having none of that. When I dressed
him out, I found 15 shot in him, two piercing his lungs and
four in his head. My advice is to leave the nice bears alone,
or carry serious artillery.

Gary
From: paulh@tekcae.cax.tek.com (Paul Hammer)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: Stupid shooter tricks
Date: 2 Sep 92 19:04:00 GMT
Organization: Tektronix, Inc., Beaverton,  OR.



#Don't carry a revolver "half-cocked" (is that where the phrase "going off
#half-cocked" comes from?)

I missed the first part of this thread, but I'll butt in anyway...

I've been told by an olde timer that "don't go off half-cocked" is
mis-used in present day.  These days most folks mean something like
"don't have an accident" or "don't get all pissed off when you only
know half the story".  I'm told the original meaning was more
like "don't go unprepared".

This comes from the "half cocked" position being used for loading,
but the hammer must be "full cocked" (?) before the trigger makes
the musket go bang.  Thus, one should "not go off hunting with your
musket half cocked" because one would not be quite prepared to fire
the musket.

-rickf