HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
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Date:         Mon, 28 Sep 1992 10:16:38 EDT
From:         Gayle Williams <GWILLIAM@UGA.BITNET>
Subject:      Re: Cable movies

On Sun, 27 Sep 1992 15:22:43 CDT <C444307@MIZZOU1> said:
>I finally saw Dead Ringers the other night (thank you insomnia).
>So does anybody know what Cronenberg's fasination with
>drugs is all about?  A pretty emotionally bleak feeling film,
>very much in the same ballpark (though not as weird as)
>Naked Lunch.
>
>Joe Daus   U of MO-Columbia

Joe--I can't answer your question in full because I haven't seen all of
Cronenberg's films but essentially in Dead Ringers, the story is based
on a true case of twin brothers who were doctors in New York who abused
drugs, switched identities to date each other's women friends, etc.  If
I remember correctly, they did die of an overdose which was viewed as
a suicide.

However, bleak and grim a film it is, it's also a fascinating look into
personality and the twins' eventual breakdown.  Jeremy Irons was incredible.
So was Genevieve Bujold.  This is the one Cronenberg that I've seen and
liked and fascinates me enough to see it again and again.  All that
blood-red imagery to denote the twins' medicinal practice.  Oooh!
Gayle Williams
University of Georgia Libraries
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Date:         Wed, 30 Sep 1992 10:35:07 -0400
From:         Ellen.Edgerton@SUADMIN.BITNET
Subject:      Dead & Mann

Re the DEAD AGAIN score:  The most interesting thing about it is that
if you listen to it carefully, you can hear the same musical theme
being repeated over and over again, and hidden everywhere in
ingenious ways.  Clever music, really.  And fits in very well with
the tone of the film, which also has lots of hidden clues and
in-jokes in it.

Fun movie, anyhow, and appealingly shlocky in its way.  Can you
imagine how frightfully BORING it would have been with the "right"
Hollywood stars in the leading roles?  Bleah.
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Date:         Fri, 2 Oct 1992 11:49:50 -0500
From:         JACKSOSM@VUCTRVAX.BITNET
Subject:      Re: Good [BAD] Movies

Subj:   RE: Good [BAD] Movies

>I hated TERMS OF ENDEARMENT so much that in the middle of it I
>volunteered to go out and check on the babysitter and didn't go back
>in - I found it to be one of the most contrived, insincere, poorly
>paced films I'd ever seen up to that point - Barring John Lithgow I
>thought all the acting was uniformly bad, including Jack Nicholson -
>Shirly MaClain never, ever, ever, should be allowed within 100 yards
>of a movie camera (or a wordprocessor)

Although TOE had its mawkish moments, I thought Shirley gave a decent
performance.  Don't judge her career by this one effort, though.  Take a
look at some of her earlier films: THE TROUBLE WITH HARRY, THE
APARTMENT, IRMA LaDOUCE.  I liked her in STEEL MAGNOLIAS, too.  She does
have a tendency to go over the top.  But in the right role, that
tendency works to her advantage.  I guess she's one of those people,
like Jack Nicholson, that you either love or hate.

j-man

    <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
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Date:         Tue, 6 Oct 1992 08:34:54 PDT
From:         Jennifer Porro <BL.JMP@RLG.BITNET>
Subject:      Re: Bell, Book, and Candle

REPLY TO 10/05/92 20:17 FROM CINEMA-L@AUVM.BITNET "Discussions on all forms of
Cinema": Re: Bell, Book, and Candle

The movie BELL, BOOK AND CANDLE was produced several years before the
BEWITCHED tv series debuted.  Jack Lemmon has a very good role in BB&C
as Kim Novak's brother, a warlock.  As the story goes, this role
helped bring him to public notice and he soon moved from costarring
roles to starring roles in movies like THE APARTMENT and SOME LIKE IT
HOT.  The rest is history, as they say.  Jennifer Porro

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Date:         Tue, 29 Sep 1992 16:18:28 EDT
From:         Jason Rankinen <AA23@NMUMUS.BITNET>
Subject:      UNFORGIVEN

> I saw UNFORGIVEN last w/end. I thought Gene HAckman gave the best performance
>  a movie
> that had a lot of good performances. A couple of minor quibbles though :
> 1) The prostitute's face didn't seem very disfigured. I know that her injuries
> were exagerated by the time Clint & Morgan heard about the incident. However,
> when Clint wakes up (after his fever breaks), he instantly recognises that the
>  woman
> standing over him is the carved-up prostitute, even though her face is hardly
>  marked.
>
> 2) Clint's shooting at the end of the movie (when he avenges Ned) has improved
>  lot
> since the start of the movie (when he couldn't hit anything with a pistol)
>
> I still loved the movie. However, the person with whom I saw the movie didn't
>  enjoy
> the movie quite so much because he felt that there was no 'good' characters,
>  just
> varying degrees of evil. What do y`all think ?
>
>                           John Smyth

     I've seen UNFORGIVEN twice now and believe it to be the finest
movie of that period in since THE LONG RIDERS.  It really gave me a
sense of what living during those times might have been like.  I would
think that most people living that far removed from "civilization" and
authority would be of "varying degrees of evil" without someone to
enforce societies concepts of such.  Clint's character was an evil man
in his youth mainly from the fact that he was drunk most of the time and
could get away with the things he did.  Sure it makes him a bad man but
living during those times, when youth could head west without super-
vision, without education, where the law is kill or be killed when an
argument got ugly, must have buried a little evil in everyone.  Come to
think of it, there isn't one really "good" person in the whole film
except for Clint's dead wife.  Certainly Little Bill(Hackman's
character) is as despicable as William Muny ever was and he parades
under the guise of law (his law).  Basically what I appreciated was the
effort to make the west raw and dirty and dangerous and unpredictable.
Guns misfiring, shots not always straight, people who aren't readily
likeable, little backwater burgs full grit and hardships is what the
west in the 1880's must have really been like and Mr. Eastwood captured
it all in a film that isn't supposed to make you feel good in the end.
     An opposing point of view was my wife's.  She heartily disliked
the film disappointed that there wasn't one person with any redeeming
qualities and that the female roles were so weak.
     As for Clint's sudden prowess with his pistol.  Well..I suppose
a number of explanations could be made since it is fiction but I believe
that from the time he was practicing in the early part of the film to
the end a lot of time has passed in which Mr. Muny has had time to
recapture his forgotten abilities and start boozing which is how he did
all his evil deeds in his past.

Jason Rankinen Northern Michigan University
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Date:         Wed, 30 Sep 1992 10:44:00 EST
From:         MCINTYRE@MSUPA.BITNET
Subject:      re: Dead Ringers

>From:         "(RAPSW)" <RAPSW.ORS@MHS.UNC.EDU>

>Dick Clawson is correct:  the movie _Dead Ringers_ was based on a book
>called _Twins_.  The book was indeed inspired by a true story, and in fact
>I remember seeing articles in the press about the twin gynecologists at the
>time they died.

>Read the book.  See the movie.

I want to second Penny's "read the book, see the movie" advice.  You want
to do both, because the movie is very different in terms of plot.  The
female protagonist in the movie is not in the book.  Yet, I feel that
Cronenberg's movie is very faithful to the story.

John McIntyre
Physics - Astronomy Dept
Michigan State University
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Date:         Mon, 28 Sep 1992 19:43:36 -0400
From:         "(Joe Poulin, UNH Registrar's Office,
              862-1533)" <J_POULIN1@UNHH.UNH.EDU>
Subject:      GOOD [BAD] MOVIES

This is my first ever attempt to send mail to one of these BBs, so forgive me
if I commit some format faux pas.  I just subscribed today and came in in the
middle of this discussion of well-received films that some people dislike.
Might I take a chance on upsetting a few people (really, I hope I don't) by
saying that I've never understood how anyone can take "On Golden Pond"
seriously?  I've always thought it a terrible film, and wondered what the
principles involved, who ought to have been embarassed to have their
considerable reputations associated with this work, must have thought of the
film's critical and popular reception.  Don't get me wrong:  I'm among the
biggest fans of both Henry Fonda and Katherine Hepburn; I think there's been a
real lack of great films touching on the lives of older men and women; and the
cinematography was superb (the movie was filmed only a few hours from I live and
work right here in New Hampshire), but the whole was never equal to the sum of
its parts.  And, of course, if it hadn't been for the certain knowledge that
this was Henry Fonda's last role, and the anticipation of the teaming of these
two great titans of film (as well as the appearance of both Henry and Jane in
the same movie), one wonders if "On Golden Pond" would not have been written
off (justifiably, I think) as mawkishly written and poorly acted, consigned to
the video dustbin.

That's my opinion, anyway.  Sorry if I offended anyone, and sorry that my first
message to the network was a negative one.  I haven't seen the movie since it's
theatrical release and am willing to admit that, just maybe, it merits a second
look.

				Joe Poulin
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Date:         Mon, 28 Sep 1992 10:19:14 -0500
From:         Gary Graffagnino <ACCGSG@HOFSTRA.BITNET>
Subject:      Re: movie music?

>From: Ray Hamel <RHAMEL@MACC.WISC.EDU>
>
>        Another composer I like very much is Danny Elfman.  His upbeat scores i
   n
>PEE-WEE'S BIG ADVENTURE and BEETLEJUICE helped to enhance the bizarre
>atmosphere that director Tim Burton was trying to create.  Similarly,
>his Gothic scores for BATMAN and EDWARD SCISSORHANDS are worth listening
>to solely on their own merit.  His tv themes for THE SIMPSONS and THE FLASH
>are also very catchy.

An interesting note on Danny Elfman.  He can't read or write a note of music.
He writes strictly by ear.  And I agree he is very talented, but he has to get
a little more diverse in his style of music to be considered on of the greats.
                           ______
  Gary Graffagnino         \    /   "Look!  It Enrico Palatzzo!'
  accgsg@hofstra.bitnet     \  /
  accgsg@vaxc.hofstra.edu    \/            -Guy from the Naked Gun
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Date:         Thu, 1 Oct 1992 18:24:10 -0500
From:         FAC_JCLARK@JMUVAX.BITNET
Subject:      Re: GOOD [bad] MOVIES

Keith,
Thanks for the type about the book _The Trail of Death_.  I'll look for it,
since I've long since had an abiding interest in native american subjects.

One further note here about Costner and DANCES that I just remembered.  The
film came out before Sir David Lean (LAWRENCE OF ARABIA et al, for those
without a director fetish like me...) died.  He saw Costner's film and liked
it on the whole, but apparently said something like: "I'd really like to
talk with that young chap and show him how he could cut an hour out of the
film..."  --Lean began his career as a film editor, and his films, no matter
how long, always showed his cutting hand, I think.  Jeff Clark
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Date:         Sun, 27 Sep 1992 15:22:43 CDT
From:         C444307@MIZZOU1.BITNET
Subject:      Cable movies

I finally saw Dead Ringers the other night (thank you insomnia).
So does anybody know what Cronenberg's fasination with
drugs is all about?  A pretty emotionally bleak feeling film,
very much in the same ballpark (though not as weird as)
Naked Lunch.

I also finally saw Predator 2.  I was very dissapointed here.
I thought I remeber critics saying it was a fairly ok sci-fi action
thing.  IMHO it just struck me as an ALIENS wanna be, and the ending
was like, oh yah that figures......NOT!

Seeya all

Joe Daus   U of MO-Columbia
C444307@MIZZOU1.BITNET
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Date:         Fri, 25 Sep 1992 16:35:54 -0500
From:         FAC_JCLARK@JMUVAX.BITNET
Subject:      Re: The Music Lovers

Jennifer,
LAIR OF THE WHITE WORM is a wonderful sendup of horror movies, still with a
shock or two of its own up its sleeve--but clearly the style of work of some-
body who doesn't normally work in the horror genre.  Also, I'd recommend
Russell's adaptation of the Sandy Wilson musical THE BOY FRIEND, an absolutely
wonderful "meta-musical" for which my admiration increases every time I see it.
The new version out (hopefully on videocassette as well as laserdisc) has been
restored with almost 20 minutes of numbers 'n' stuff that were cut by the
studio on its initial release.  For those worried about revisioning history
here, you should know that this film was a victim of the period when the head
of the studio (MGM?), who shall remain a nonentity here, was cutting everything
in sight among their releases, including the latest David Lean film, RYAN'S
DAUGHTER (I know, but...).  Jeff Clark
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Date:         Sun, 4 Oct 1992 16:01:00 CDT
From:         Ray Hamel <RHAMEL@MACC.WISC.EDU>
Subject:      Handyman on THE JETSONS

Tim -
        The janitor/handyman in the Jetsons' apartment building was
Henry Orbit (voice of Howard Morris).

Ray Hamel
University of Wisconsin
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Date:         Mon, 5 Oct 1992 12:45:00 EST
From:         AMBLY@CLUST1.CLEMSON.EDU
Subject:      Re: GOOD [bad] MOVIES

J-man:  Glad to see someone had the guts to say they actually liked
"Dances With Wolves" after such a deluge of negativity.  I, too, liked the
movie, for no other reason than that the story grabbed me from the first
pistol shot and carried my through various emotions until the final shot
of the couple traveling the mountain pass.  Sure, some people think
Costner's boring and one could argue that the movie was more about his
adaption to another culture than about the travails of the Native American.
However, the story was a complete one, that touched on many emotions, anger,
sadness, love, disgust, disillusionment...I thought a good movie was
supposed to touch, and this one did.  I guess I was enjoying the movie too
much to realize it was too long and too flawed.  I pay more attention next
time I see it.

Adrian
Clemson
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Date:         Tue, 29 Sep 1992 14:02:03 CST
From:         "Dick Clawson, S.J." <CLAWSON@LOYNOVM.BITNET>
Subject:      Re: Dead Ringers
              29 Sep 1992 14:07:24 GMT from <ziauddin@OSIRIS.CSO.UIUC.EDU>

I recall reading the novel upon which this film was based.  I *think*
that it was called _Twins_.  I had read it many years before seeing the
film and I found the book to be powerful and unsettling.  I think feel that
the film did great justice to the book, although there was a erotic relation-
ship between the brothers, going back to adolescence, that the film didn't
explore.  I can't remember who wrote the book and I'm not positive on the title
but I remember seeing the film and reralizing that they were the same story.
I *don't* recall the book saying it was based on a true story, but don't quote
me.
RDC,SJ
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Date:         Mon, 5 Oct 1992 11:00:00 EST
Reply-To:     ELGFROEHRER@PSUCES.BITNET
Comments:     Warning -- original Sender: tag was ELGFROEHRER@PSULIAS
From:         ELGFROEHRER@PSUCES.BITNET
Subject:      The Commitments

                  I N T E R O F F I C E   M E M O R A N D U M

                                        Date:     05-Oct-1992 10:52am DST
                                        From:     Ellen L. Gfroehrer
                                                  ELGFROEHRER
                                        Dept:     Independent Learning
                                        Tel No:   (814) 865-5403

TO:  Remote Network Mail User             ( _IN%CINEMA-L@AUVM.BITNET )


Subject: The Commitments

I just saw "The Commitments" last night. Wow! What a great little movie.  A
truly original story with wonderful music.  Has anyone else seen it?  Does
anyone know if the people in it actually did the singing?  Were the actors who
were in it stars in England/Ireland?  Now, I know the guy who played Jimmy's
father is on Star Trek: TNG, but other than that, I did not recognize anyone.
My old fantasy of singing Motown has just been resurrected!  "Ain't too proud
to beg..."

Ellen
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Date:         Sat, 26 Sep 1992 16:20:59 CST
From:         CLAWDOG <CLAWSON@LOYNOVM.BITNET>
Subject:      Re: Movie music?
              25 Sep 1992 14:21:01 -0400 from <Ellen.Edgerton@SUADMIN>

Many people got quasi-riled by their interpretation of Ellen's comments.
She wasn't knocking "pop" music in soundtracks, and the many examples that
e-mailers provided were valid.  Her point, I believe and agree with, is
that "Everything I Do" and the equivalent musical pap with which _Robin_
Hood_ was lavishly scored was *anachronistic*  ie: too modern for the period
in which the film was set.  It was only one of the hundred reasons why
Costner's _Robin_Hood_Prince_of_Dreck_  is the worst film I've ever suffered
through.
   Do people notice the score?  After a recent viewing of _Last_of_the_
Mohicans_ many people were heard commenting on the soundtrack and how
exceptional it was.  (Marvin Hamlisch tells a story about going to see a
film with a costume designer and when it was over the only thing she really
noticed was the costuming.  He then explains that he had recently attended
a pornographic movie and came out humming the music [he wouldn't say humming
the _score_ for obvious reasons...])
   Yes the music counts, often the lack of music counts.  The type of music
used incidentally in a film is of extreme importance.  How would _Radio_Days_
have worked without music from that era?  On the other hand, _Bugsy_ was
severely lacking in period-style music.  The use of Strauss in _2001_, the
love theme from _Cinema_Paradiso_, The music for the sword fights or sea
battles by Erich Wolfgang Korngold, piercing long chords played by synthesizers
whenever the homocidal maniac is about to impale the next co-ed.  Consider the
silent movies, the impact of the film was heavily reliant on the mood of the
organist/pianist.
    Movie music cannot be underrated as an important aspect of filmmaking.
Fortunately there are composers whose work, while perhaps not with the
staying power of Korngold or Tomikin are maintaining a high level of quality
in the art of film scoring.  I would include the like of Morricone, Delarue,
Barry, Williams (I don't like him, but I have to include him), Elfman, Byrne,
Hamlisch, and even Stephen Sondheim has provided excellent scores for films.
    If a film was set in the 70's and the charachters were the kind of people
who would listen to Disco, you'd better pull out the old "Peaches and Herb"
albums.  There is a danger with overscoring, one of my only criticisms of
_Prince of Tides_.  Dave Grusin did an excellent job with _Fabulous_Baker_
Boys_ matching the score with the lives of nightclub musicians, especially
in scenes with Jeff Bridges, very well integrated and very well thought out.
    I gotta go,

RDC,SJ
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Date:         Tue, 29 Sep 1992 14:09:14 CST
From:         "Dick Clawson, S.J." <CLAWSON@LOYNOVM.BITNET>
Subject:      Re: Shirley MacLaine
              29 Sep 1992 15:50:37 EST from <stevep@SNOWHITE.CIS.UOGUELPH.CA>

Don't forget Shirley Maclaine in _Postcards_from_the_Edge_.  She had to
play herself, a goddess of high camp while also being your basic angst
punching bag.  Interestingly enough, Carrie Fischer's (sp?) father, was
most likely the model  for the dominating parent.  Debbie Reynolds just
seems too sweet...
     I don't know the source for _Madame_S._ but it was an excellent film.
As a performance-level pianist I recognized many very true-to-life elements
in this film.  Off the subject (sort of) but another film that I felt really
dealt with the world of the arts very realistically was _Meeting_Venus_.
Anyone have any opinions on this superb work?

RDC,SJ
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Date:         Thu, 1 Oct 1992 09:07:51 -0500
From:         FAC_JCLARK@JMUVAX.BITNET
Subject:      Re: GOOD [bad] MOVIES

Just a note to add to the comments re DANCES WITH WOLVES.  Unless my brain
cells are dying faster than even I could suspect, it seems to me that the
Mary McDonnell character was a white adopted as a girl into the tribe--not
a Native American by birth.

Though I agree with most of the comments about the film, I still liked it...
primarily for the way it indulged the process of making initial culture con-
tact, which I found amusing and absorbing and just about unfound in any other
films I could think of.

However, for truer, fuller and deeper vision of the relation between the two
cultures/races involved--which I think has a genuine sense of acknowledgement
and regret for the blunt fact that they can never quite meet--I recommend
Bruce Beresford's BLACK ROBE.  A great film, achieving much more at half the
length.

(Nonetheless, I'm still waiting to see if they release the rumored *four* hour
version of DANCES for home video, which Costner seems to have begun considering
about the time of the Oscar activities. I'd like to see if the added material
balances and deepens his portrait any, though I fear it won't.)

Jeff Clark
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Date:         Tue, 6 Oct 1992 12:15:56 -0500
From:         Gary Graffagnino <ACCGSG@HOFSTRA.BITNET>
Subject:      Re: _Empire Quiz_...

>From: DU013@OASIS.CALPOLY.EDU
>
>Tim Burton (Pee Wee's Big Adventure, Beetlejuice, Batman) -- a guess

A very good guess.  But I have to guess Mr. Oliver Stone:

Platoon (1986) (AA)
Salvador (1986)
Wall Street (1987)
Talk Radio (1988)
Born on the Fourth of July (1989) (AA)

2 Academy Awards to boot.
                           ______
  Gary Graffagnino         \    /   "What I wouldn't give for a plate of
  accgsg@hofstra.bitnet     \  /     fried green tomatoes like we used to
  accgsg@vaxc.hofstra.edu    \/      have at the Whistle Stop Cafe"
                                                  -Mrs. Cleo Threadgoode (FGT)
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