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Date:         Mon, 6 Apr 1992 15:53:46 EDT
Reply-To:     ddavidson@cbacc.cba.uga.edu
From:         Dennis Davidson <DDAVIDSON@CBACC.CBA.UGA.EDU>
Subject:      Re: Polygamy and the Book of Mormon
X-To:         CHRISTIA%ASUACAD@uga.cc.uga.edu

>
>  "Let us, therefore carefully investigate the important question--
>   Is polygamy a crime? Is it condemned in the Bible, either by the
>   Old or New Testament?  Has God ever condemned it by his own voice?
>   Have his angels ever been sent forth to inform the nations who have
>   practised this thing that they were in transgression? Has he ever
>   spoken against it by any inspired writer? Has any Patriarch,
>   Prophet, Apostle, angel, or even the Son of God himself, ever
>   condemned polygamy? We may give a general answer, without investi-
>   gating this subject, and say to the world, We have no information
>   of that kind on record, except what we find in the Book of Mormon.
>   There it was positively forbidden to be practised by the ancient
>   Nephites.
>   The Book of Mormon, therefore, is the only record (professing to
>   be Divine) which condemns plurality of wives as being a practice
>   exceedingly abominable before God. But even that sacred book makes
>   an exception in substance as follows -- "Except I the Lord command
>   my people."  The same Book of Mormon and the same article that
>   commanded the Nephites that they should not marry more than one
>   wife, made an exception. Let this be understood -- "Unless I the
>   Lord shall command them." We can draw the conclusion from this,
>   that there were some things not right in the sight of God, unless
>   he should command them. We can draw the same conclusion from the
>   Bible, that there were many things which the Lord would not suffer
>   his children to do, unless he particulary commanded them to do them."
> Sermon by Elder Orson Pratt, Sen., delivered in the Tabernacle,
> Great Salt Lake City, July 24, 1859.
>
> Greg Stewart

Matthew 19 says ' a man leave father and mother, and shall cleave to his
wife; and they twain shall be one flesh? Wherefore they are no more twain,
but one flesh.' When I read that, it seems that we should have only one wife,
since it doesn't say 'he shall cleave to his wives, and him and all his wives
shall be one flesh.' Could you explain how you read that portion of the
scriptures?

Your servant in Christ,
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
| Dennis Davidson, Operational Support    |                               |
| Terry College of Business Computer Ctr. |  ddavidson@cbacc.cba.uga.edu  |
| University of Georgia, ph.(404)542-3821 |                               |
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
__________________________________________________________________________
| Jesus said 'You know you are one of my disciples if you have love one  |
| for another'                                                           |
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Date:         Fri, 10 Apr 1992 11:59:00 EDT
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From:         JHART@UMASSD.BITNET
Subject:      Re: Reading Mormon

Hi John
        The only answer would be if you could find one of the LDS
bible dictionaries which explains, from their point of view, the
meanings of names and places.
        If you would like more information, contact me on private
email.

                        John Hart
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Date:         Wed, 8 Apr 1992 08:27:46 BST
From:         "Jonathan Wheeler" <JFW1@IBM-B.RUTHERFORD.AC.UK>
Subject:      Great Britain not England

On Tue, 7 Apr 1992 11:42:00 CDT <MB09@EARN.SWTEXAS> said:

>Abortion is allowed in the United States, Canada, Holland, England, Italy,
                                                            -------

This is just a small point, but the correct name for the country as
represented in the United Nations is Great Britain or the United Kingdom
of Great Britain and Northern Ireland.  England is one part of Great Britain,
but by no means all, as those from Wales, Scotland and Northern Ireland will
often point out :-)

It is true that in some areas law in Scotland is different from law in the rest
of Great Britain, but (as far as I am aware) this does not apply to the
question of abortion.

Yours sincerely

Jonathan Wheeler
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Date:         Tue, 7 Apr 1992 18:14:47 EST
From:         Kerry Stephenson <KSTE@PURCCVM.BITNET>
Subject:      RE: Pro Choice Rally in DC.

Dan:
Everything you said about number is true.  It is now estimated that the
March on Washington for Civil Rights in the 1960s was underestimated by
a factor of three.  The 1989 March for Life claimed 800,000 people; the
media (Park Police, etc) reported 250,000.  There is understatement on
both sides, at every event.  I don't think, however, (as I think I said
somewhere before; my call waiting keeps zapping my computer and I'm
not always sure whether something got sent) it should make any difference
to us as Christians either way.  God is not a democrat, and 500 billion
people could not make a wrong right.  I mean this for both sides.  Also,
because we are Christians, I think we should ask God to show us His will
on this issue.  We should pray both that those we oppose would be led to
see the truth AND that if we are wrong God will gently guide us back to
where we belong.
                  Love and Peace,
                                 ---Kerry
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Date:         Fri, 17 Apr 1992 11:16:08 EST
From:         Kerry Stephenson <KSTE@PURCCVM.BITNET>
Subject:      Re: "Truth"
              16 Apr 1992 13:52:16 GMT from <dil@SCE.CARLETON.CA>

Dave:
You refer to some beliefs you held as a child that you no longer believe
because you think they are contrary to the Spirit of God.  Would you
mind elaborating?
                 Love and Curiosity INC,
                                        ---Kerry
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Date:         Wed, 15 Apr 1992 14:58:00 CST
From:         "Darryl (The Other Brother) Johnson" <DJOHNSON@TCUCVMS.BITNET>
Subject:      Re: Safe Sex #2

From: Kerry Stephenson <KSTE@PURCCVM.BITNET>
By ignoring the main point of my posting and focusing only on the ending
     It said "All I am saying is....".  I took that as a summary of
     your position on the matter.  I feel THAT is adequate reason
     to "focus only on the ending".  If you don't want people to
     respond to your summaries, don't summarize!

things about the behavior of others.  I do not drive a car.
     You don't condemn those that do, either.  Do you have to
     be an adulterer to have an opinion on adultery?

However, the analogy will work _only_ when we add the additional information
     In your opinion.  As driving at 55 miles an hour is much more
     dangerous than sex, I don't understand why you felt the need
     to raise the speed to 100, unless it was to extend my argument
     to where it was absurd, and then ridicule its absurdity.
     The anology, in its original form, is correct.

On this issue, as with abortion, you appear to view the lives of others
with a casualness I cannot understand.  If a person wishes to engage in
     While you appear to view the lives of others as your personal
     responsibility.  If we assume that these OTHER people are humans,
     capable of rational decision making, why do you feel compelled
     to make their choices for them?

encourage others into engaging in the same behavior without telling them
what the risks are is a sin.  It is a lie.  The death a person with AIDS
     I am simply saying that it is WRONG to EXAGGERATE the risks in
     order to get people to do what you want them to do.  And that
     is what the John Ankerburg shows (remember?  how all this started?)
     are doing.  When compared to the Center for Disease Control
     stats, the J Ankerburg statements are totally bogus.
     Choice.  Let people make their own informed decisions.

     Darryl at TCU
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Date:         Tue, 7 Apr 1992 15:40:00 MDT
From:         ERNESTOM@EPCC.BITNET
Subject:      Re: EITHER AND/OR: A BAPTISIMAL INQUIRY

Peace of Christ,


        All the bautizes in the Bible were done in the name of
Jesus Christ.

Read:

Acts 2:38
Acts 8:16
acts 9:15-18; 22:16
Rom 6:3
and many more..........................in the name of Jesus Christ.

        The Apostles baptize in Jesus name........Acts 4:12

Paz!
Organization: Wherever it lands, it stays 'til I need it
Date: Tuesday, 14 Apr 1992 08:20:08 EDT
From: Kurt Ludwick <KEL111@psuvm.psu.edu>
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.christia
Subject: Re: Contraception == abortion? (was Re: re:pro-choice)
 <1992Apr11.143659.21880@bronze.ucs.indiana.edu>

I have a couple of thoughts about the Catholic Church's assertion that
life begins at conception, and therefore abortion is wrong.
Not to disagree about the beginning of life; I do agree with that, though I
think the debate over where life begins is largely a battle of semantics.

Anyway, I'm wondering, first of all, how the Catholic Church feels about the
fact that 1/4 of all blastocysts (fertilized eggs) are naturally 'aborted.'
That is, they are naturally flushed out of the woman's body before they are
able to implant themselves in the uterus, where they release a hormone or
something (I haven't read up on this for a few weeks) to signal the body to
stop the menstrual cycle.  Is anything being done about this?  If life is
to begin at conception, then we are allowing 25% of all people to die.  Nobody
is at fault here, but it is still happening.

Secondly, what forms of birth control are seen as the equivalent of abortion,
and which are not?  For example, a condom is a contraceptive, so no fertili\
zation ever takes place.  However (as I understand this, please correct me if
I am wrong), the birth control pill causes the menstrual cycle to persist even
after implantation of a fertilized egg in the uterus, causing it to be flushed
out just as so many other blastocysts are.  Is this form of birth control con-
sidered the moral equivalent of abortion by the Catholic Church, and is it
therefore banned?

Just a couple of questions, to keep things interesting.

------------
Kurt Ludwick
------------
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Date:         Tue, 14 Apr 1992 12:29:30 EDT
From:         Leo W <Leo_W@QM.CIRCA.UFL.EDU>
Subject:      Scripturette 4/14
X-To:         Christia <christia@asuvm.inre.asu.edu>

"We have also a more sure word of prophecy; whereunto ye do well that ye take
heed, as unto *a light that shineth in a dark place*, until the day dawn, and
the day star arise in your hearts."

"Knowing this first, that no prophecy of Scripture is of any private
interpretation, for the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man, but
holy men of God spake as they were moved by the Holy Ghost"  (2 Peter 1:19-21).

Yours in Christ Jesus,
Leo
From: cvedovat@sdcc3.ucsd.edu (Carlos Vedovato)
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.christia
Subject: Re: Poverty
Date: 9 Apr 92 18:09:05 GMT
Reply-To: carlos@ucsd.edu


In article <CHRISTIA%92040807322330@ASUACAD.BITNET>, KSTE@PURCCVM.BITNET (Kerry Stephenson) writes:
|> Jeff:
|> 
|> Please explain the following words of God, as recorded in Isaiah:
|> 
|> "I am the LORD and there is none else.  I form the light, and create
|> darkness:  I make peace, and create evil.  I the LORD do all these
|> things."   (Is. 45:6-7).
|> 
|> If God created evil, how can it not exist?
|> 
|>                                        Love and Curiousity INC,
|>                                                                ---Kerry

Which translation of the Bible are you using?

The NIV translates Is. 45:7 as:

"I form the light and create the darkness, I bring prosperity and create
disaster; I, the LORD, do all these things."

Which translation is correct? Sorry I didn't bring my concordance with
Hebrew dictionary, if anyone out there has one handy, could you clarify
this passage?

"disaster" is not necessarily "evil", e.g. the destruction of Sodom.

-- 
         ______    ____      ______      __        _______    _______
        / ____/\  / __ |    / __  /\    / /\      / ___  /\  / _____/\
       / / ___\/ / /_| |   / /_/ / /   / / /     / /  / / / /_/_____\/
      / /_/__   / / _| |  / / _\ \/   / /_/__   / /__/ / / _\___/ /\
     /______/\ /_/ / |_| /_/ /  \_\  /______/\ /______/ / /______/ /
     \______\/ \_\/  |_| \_\/    \_\ \______\/ \______\/  \______\/

Carlos Vedovato, carlos@ucsd.edu       | The more complex the mind, the greater
             [backbone]!ucsd!carlos    | the need for the simplicity of play.
UCSD grad, ECE Department              | -- Kirk, "Shore Leave" stardate 3025.8
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Date:         Tue, 7 Apr 1992 16:27:04 EDT
From:         Marty Helgesen <MNHCC@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Subject:      Re: rally

On Tue, 7 Apr 1992 13:47:00 CST Darryl (The Other Brother) Johnson said:
>     <<Stuff omitted>>
>     Needless to say, I am a little skeptical of claims by
>     prolife individuals who feel that the entire media is
>     prochoice.  Nor can I see what benefit is obtained by
>     saying that a class of individuals who are almost
>     entirely college-educated and who are in contact with
>     educational sources and "the facts" every day are ALL
>     prochoice.  If a combination of an educated mind and
>     knowledge of the facts leads 100% OF THE TIME to a
>     prochoice individual, I think the prolife movement has
>     a more serious problem to contend with than a few negative
>     newspaper articles!  :-)
>
>     Again, I don't feel the media is "part of the proabortion
>     establishment", but if you wish to assert that, be my guest.
>     It only helps the prochoice agenda a little further along.
>
>     Darryl at TCU
A year or so ago the LOS ANGELES TIMES, which is editorially pro-abortion,
had a multi-part series on pro-abortion bias in the media.  I have a
copy of the reprint home.  I will post bibliographic details tonight.

Kerry did not say "100% OF THE TIME".  That aside, these same educated
educated and knowledgeable journalists tend to be atheists or agnostics.
What would you, as a Christian, reply if an atheist or agnostic on the
list said "If a combination of an educated mind and knowledge of the facts
leads 100% OF THE TIME to atheism or agnosticism, I think Christianity has
a more serious problem to contend with than a few negative newspaper
articles!  :-)"?

Marty Helgesen
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Date:         Thu, 9 Apr 1992 13:53:02 EST
From:         Kerry Stephenson <KSTE@PURCCVM.BITNET>
              10 Apr 1992 02:38:22 -0800 from <whchen@CS.NTHU.EDU.TW>

Allen:

No, I do not think evolutionists are correct, primarily from a scientific
viewpoint.  While I find the theology of evolution repugnant, I must
admit that my distaste for it is more analytical.  There is no evidence
for species evolution, only for natural selection within species.  Thus,
the popular concept of evolution that posits the evolution of man from
lesser species is entirely theoretical, unsupported by factual evidence,
and requires a far greater degree of faith to accept than does the notion
of a created universe, the evidence for which is everywhere you look.
                                                   Love INC,
                                                            ---Kerry
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Date:         Tue, 7 Apr 1992 20:47:00 EDT
From:         NWILSON@SMITH.BITNET
Subject:      Re: rally

Kerry,
        What's the deal? All the person asked was what the numbers were,
IMO not trying to discredit legislation or anything else. Why warp a
simple question???
                Nicole
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Date:         Fri, 10 Apr 1992 16:53:13 EST
From:         Marty Helgesen <MNHCC@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Subject:      ACTS (WAS help with prayer)

Carol,


Adoration
Contrition
Thanksgiving
Supplication

Marty Helgesen
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Date:         Fri, 17 Apr 1992 08:47:00 CDT
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Subject:      set christia nomail

SET CHRISTIA NOMAIL
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Date:         Wed, 8 Apr 1992 09:59:00 CDT
From:         MB09@SWTEXAS.BITNET
Subject:      Prayer Request

Hello!

I would like to ask all of you to pray for my parents.

Here's the situation:

My dad retired from the Air Force about 5 years ago.  He got a job with a
civilian company and they immediately sent him to New York.  After two years
an opening came up at Bergstrom AFB in Austin, TX, and my dad put in for it.
They moved here to San Marcos (only 30 miles from Austin) so that my brother
and I could live with them while finishing school.  Last year the contract
expired and since Bergstrom is closing soon, it was not renewed and they sent
my dad to California where he has been since October.  The AFB he works at
in California (George) is closing very soon and he will soon have to be
transferred again, this time to Boise, Idaho.  My mom has stayed here in
San Marcos all this time since my sister is a sophomore in high school and
didn't want her school disrupted.

The thing is that my parents have moved around more in the last 5 years than
their whole 22 years in the Air Force.  They are getting older (almost 50)
and it really is time that they settled down, as they both WANT to.  They
want to buy a house. (They have never owned a house and have been married
for 26 years now!)  The main thing is that they want to stay in Texas.  It
really is hard for our family being apart, because we are so close.  And
their first grandchild is due in October (I am three months along now!).  Also
every time they move now, it comes out of their pockets because the company
does not pay for it.

My mom just called and told me that there will be an opening at Randolph AFB
in San Antonio, TX (about 45 miles from here) about the end of the summer
in another company.  This is a prayer answered as my mom has been praying
that they will be able to stay in Texas.  The only thing is that my dad has
to get the job.  Please pray that God will allow this to happen for my
parents.  They are good people and deserve some happiness in their lives.

Thank you so much!

Michelle
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Date:         Wed, 8 Apr 1992 02:07:12 -0800
From:         dr798302 <whchen@CS.NTHU.EDU.TW>

KSTE@PURCCVM.BITNET (Kerry Stephenson) writes:

>As patients, we are not required to participate in the symbolism of the
>medical profession.  We are, however, required to engage in the worship
>practices of Hinduism in order to practice Yoga (again, I know this from
>personal experience.)

There a lot of differences in cultural as well as in the intrepretations
of some terminalogies between the western and the eastern world.  Though
Christians have tried to preach to the Chinese and Indian, only very
very few people receive the gospel.  Most Christians thought that
Buddism, Tsan, Taosm and Yoga are religions and people should give up
those in order to accept Jesus Christ.  It is very hard for the people
in East as they have lived on it for thousands of years.

Neither (the original)Buddism, nor Tsan nor Taosm nor Yoga is a
religion.  It is only some philosopies or some practices for the people
to seek the spirit inside his body.  Chinese does not have the chance to
receive the gospel till two hundred years ago.  In the five thousand
years of Chinese history, there are so many peoples who were so curious
about the meaning of life.  The peoples who created the Buddism or Tsan
or Taosm or (I know only a bit about Yoga) never said that they are gods
or they are from god, but only said that they were trying to look for
the meaning of life.  If you read some buddist books, you can find that
there are a lot of similarites between what they wanted and what God
taught in the Bible.  The buddist book told the Chinese to forgive
others even your enemy, to love others as you love yourself in order to
be trully happy in the spirit.  The Tasan is only a practice for one
to calm down, not letting the physical desires or thought to control
yourself, but let the spirit in your body to control it.  The taosum is

a philosopy devoting oneself to the 'TEN' (heaven, in Chinese) that
controls the stars, the living beings.

I was baptized into a Christian about half a year ago.  Christians are
a very minority in China, Japan, and Taiwan.  I would not like to see
people reject the gospel simply because you do not respect our
inheritage from the history.  Most Chinese think that the God in the
Catholic Church and him in the other Christian Churches are different as
we use different Chinese name for him.   I wish never terminalogies
would never become the barrier to spread the gosel.

In His Love,
ALlen W. Chen


Allen W. Chen
.
From: parsons@cis.ksu.edu (Scott S Parish )
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.christia
Subject: Re: Parable in Matt.
Date: 14 Apr 92 05:38:47 GMT
Organization: Kansas State University
NNTP-Posting-Host: harry.cis.ksu.edu

Andrew Brennan <BRENNAAA@DUVM.BITNET> writes:

>      Ok, here's another question ...

>      I was reading through Matthew (start at the beginning and go
>   to the end ... :^) and have recently reached the parable of the
>   wicked husbandmen.  (Matt. 21:33-41)
[some deletions and editing]
>   The owner is God, the son is Jesus, slaves are the prophets, etc.   But,
>   in v. 38 - the husbandmen say that they will kill the son and
>   take his inheritance ...  What is the inheritance?

Here's my guess.  I would say that the inheritance would be the lands and
the crops and is symbolically the kingdom of God.  The Pharasees and the 
like were given the responsiblity for the religious care-taking of the 
people.  This aspect is symbolized by the care-taking of the vineyard
by the tenants.  If you read down farther, in vv. 41-44, esp. v. 43. Jesus 
explains it in that way I believe.  In v. 43 he says, "Therefore I tell
you that the kingdom of God will be taken away from you and given to a 
people who will produce its fruit."

That's how I would interpret it.  Good question BTW.

-- 
-----------  Scott Parish  a.k.a.  parsons@harris.cis.ksu.edu  ------------
"The evidence of God's existence and His gift is more than compelling,
but those who insist that they have no need of Him or it will always find
ways to discount the offer." -- Pascal