HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: lawbkwn@buacca.BITNET (Yaakov HaMizrachi)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Congrats to Nikolai
Date: 14 Apr 92 19:55:29 GMT
Organization: The Internet

Sorry I cannot transmit this directly
to
publically than not at all.

N ote, good folk, the honor done to one
I n whom resides such talent and such skill
K naves they be, who do not bestow their praise
O n one who doth deserve their best good-will
L et us then join with Midrealm crowns and so
  with all our might
A pplaud this bard and give to him, the praise
  that is his right
I give thee cheers, good Nikolai, God grant thy tongue
  tongue and pen do never die

Yaakov HaMizrachi
From: Tim@f4229.n124.z1.fidonet.org (Tim)
Sender: FredGate@ocitor.fidonet
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: Isaac Asimov
Date: Wed, 08 Apr 1992 08:14:46

 0> Anyone have details on last night's death of Isaac Asimov? 
 0>  What was his SCA name, if any?

 So far as I am aware, Asimov was not involved in the SCA.

 * Origin: Herald's Point * Steppes/Ansteorra * 214-699-0057 (1:124/4229)
From: jtn@nutter.cs.vt.edu (Terry Nutter)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: Magick
Date: 14 Apr 92 02:35:05 GMT
Followup-To: jtn@vtopus.cs.vt.edu
Organization: SCA

Mi'lord Gerald_Del_Campo writes:

>It seems that much magick is mixed in with the Midieval period.  Has anyone
>ever adopted the persona of a magician in the SCA?

Harumpf!  I've known a few, but they tended to be beaucoup flaky in
n-dimensions.  In retrospect I only regret that I didn't know any
inquisitors at the time to whom I might introduce them :-).

Hossein
From: jeffs@math.bu.EDU (Jeff Suzuki)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: 14th c. fire extinguisher
Date: 13 Apr 92 18:55:09 GMT
Organization: The Internet


Moreach asks:

>(where do you find a good 14thc fire extinguisher;-)

I remember seeing a show---I think it was "Connections", where they
mentioned late period (ca. 15th century, alas) fire extinguishers:
basically they acted on the same principle (I believe) as a modern
glue gun: you push in a piston and water goes squirt.  

Failing that, asbestos is period...and non-carcinogenic, too...

Fujimoto
From: MCKAY_MICHAEL@tandem.COM
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Determinate Marshalling
Date: 8 Apr 92 23:06:00 GMT
Organization: The Internet

I remember asking this question a couple of years ago, but I don't remember the
answers I got (this was probably during the period that my Internet gateway
became very flakey).  All this talk of light blows reminded me about the
subject of "Determinate Marshalling".  It probably falls under the subject of
inter-kingdom anthropology.  In your kingdom, what is the role of the marshall?
    I was taught that a marshall, with few exceptions, should not make any
judgements about the blows, unless specifically asked, or if something was
dangerous (some execeptions are if a fighter asks us to watch certain details
during the fight, or if one of the fighters is inexperienced AND something
looks obviously wrong).  To give you an example of this code, often during
tourneys, I have watched two fighters discuss a blow ("was it glancing?", etc.)
yet the marshalls will not offer comments unless asked for them.  I don't
remember if this is written anywhere, but it is definatly part of the training.
I will upon occasion talk to the fighter afterward ("that glancing blow looked
to me that it was caught by a bit of shield"), but I think I am an exception.
   To contrast this style of marshalling, let me tell you some tales that I
heard (first hand) from Pensic.  My baron was fighting in a Pennsic war (two
years ago, I believe), and a marshall suddenally came running up to him and
said "You are dead!".  The year before that, a similar occurance happened, and
my baron had asked the marshall why, and the marshall construed this as
arguing.  This time he did not question the marshall but "died".  Later he
found the marshall, and asked him why he "was dead".  The marshall replied that
he had taken a body blow during the fight.  That paticular fight happened to be
with someone he was camping with (Sir Robert of Woodsende, the current war
marshall of the West).  Sir Robert said something to the effect of no that was
not a body blow at all, it was a leg blow, and I slipped as I was throwing it.
   Now my Baron mutters about Pennsic marshalls being more deadly than the
troops ("I was killed twice at Pennsic by marshalls").  That same year I heard
a number of people complianing about "determinate marshalling" and how it would
never be accepted in the West.  Was that an experiment?  Or is this a style of
marshalling that is more common in other kingdoms.  As an experinced marshall,
I have seen enough times that I have made mistakes in Tourney comabts (where
the marshalls outnumber the fighters by 2 to 1), that I can't really see how
this could work for war marshalling.  Unless there are severe problems with
blow counting, I can't see this type of marshalling being needed.  It also
leads to mistakes by the marshallate (such as above), which lessens the
reputation of marshalls.  I look forward to any comments.

Sean MacKay  (aka.  MCKAY_MICHAEL@tandem.com)
From: trifid@agora.uucp (Roadster Racewerks)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: magic
Date: 16 Apr 92 17:00:31 GMT
Organization: Open Communications Forum



I think our fictional idea of court magicians was derived from the court
astrologers (many of whom were really what we call astronomers, looking for
research funds) and alchemists. The astrologers and alchemists were suspected
of having great "powers", a suspicion they usually fairly actively encouraged,
and were indeed quite mystic in some respects. The mysticism was based on IP
religions (Judaism, Islam, Christianity) not local pagan leftovers, with the
Kabala being often (mis)quoted, along with other "occult" (as in hidden, not as
in satanic :-) sources, as these people believed that their science was not
just physical, but depended upon the faith and *philosophical* knowledge of the
practitioner as well. (In fact many thought it even more important than any
practical knowledge!) If one wanted to be a Court Magician, one would find
these people and what we know of their beliefs to be fascinating, and the basis
for a multi-faceted and instructional persona.

As to their religion, it was a matter of individual belief, but tended toward
Gnosticism and something similar to the sort of Christian-derived (but not
Christian per se) beliefs of the 17thc and later intellectuals. They certainly
weren't pagans, but I'm pretty sure the Church was *very* uncomfortable with
them as well. Some did get themselves under the thumb of the Inquisition, and
were convicted of witchcraft, but it is not likely they were guilty of anything
more than a similar attitude to many modern day skeptics. It didn't help that
some of them, such as Brahe, had very poor interpersonal skills and thought
they were a good deal better than not only the common man, but also the peerage!
(Well, in fairness, Brahe was a peer...but *he* thought he was better than the
royalty! :-)

And yes, many of them weren't above doing sleight-of-hand or anything else that
would keep the local Prince befuddled enough to keep the money coming in! The
ingredients of alchemy were *very* expensive...

(And from these folk we eventually derived astronomy and chemistry.)

Moreach
Organization: Youngstown State University
Date: Monday, 13 Apr 1992 09:13:38 EDT
From: <00030929@ysub.ysu.edu>
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Transylvanian runic script?

Greetings unto the assembled, and especially Fra C.,  from Vajk

  In the Erdely region there was, and may still be by a few people, written a
runic script used by the Hungarians.  After about 1000 A.D., and the reign of
Stephen I of Hungary, Christianity was the religion of state, and the Latin
alphabet was used.  But the early Hungarian runic script persisted until at
least the middle of the 19th century in only one area of the world (that I am
aware of!), that being the Erdely region that you mentioned.  It may still be
used by a few individuals, as such things generally take a long time to die.
  If these are indeed the runes you speak of, they are related not to the
northern runes, but to certain western Asiatic runes.  The Magyars picked it up
about the 6th century from, I believe, the Turkic civilization with which they
were associated;  but it might have been Persian.  There is a considerable body
of scholarly literature about them, and I can e-mail some references for you if
you want.  This is being posted to the Net as a matter of general information,
to promote the spread of learning, as most people don't even know that runes
are fairly widespread throughout the world.
  One last note.  I should double check my references, but I believe that the
Magyars did not settle in the area of what is now Transylvania.  The tribes
settled there were allied with the Magyars, and took up these positions as a
defensive move.  I believe that they were the Kavars who had joined the Magyars
in their migration at the end of the breakup of the Khazar Empire, under which
the Magyars had been living until about 830 A.D.  They were later known as
Szecklers (sp?).
  This last paragraph is tentative, as I don't have my references in front of
me.
  The folks at soc.culture.magyar have been extremely helpful in the past, so
you might also want to post your request there.
  If you want more, e-mail to <00030929 at ysub.ysu.edu>.


Vajk
From: Stephen.Whitis@f4229.n124.z1.fidonet.org (Stephen Whitis)
Sender: FredGate@ocitor.fidonet
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Why Call Light Blows?
Date: Tue, 14 Apr 1992 05:14:12

>You're not the only one who has this problem; rhinoleum armor abounds
>here in Ansteorra.  I've watched inch-deep dents appear in 12 guage
>helms to the refrain
>'LIGHT' more times than I can count.  This is strange, as

The implication here is that everyone in Ansteorra rhino-hides.  If
so, I take offense.  While I know several individuals who do have
problems calling blows, I do *not* see that as the standard.  (One
of those individual's is a knight (& a count), and lives in the
Northern parts of the Kingdom.  I wouldn't be suprised if this
person has played a part in your perception.
___ X MegaMail 2.10 #0:An unemployed Jester is nobody's fool!

 * Origin: Herald's Point * Steppes/Ansteorra * 214-699-0057 (1:124/4229)
From: gorilla@cats.ucsc.edu (Joe Mama)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Magicians in SCA (was Re: Magick)
Date: 16 Apr 92 20:56:54 GMT
Article-I.D.: darkstar.33092
Organization: The College of St. David, Darkwood, The West


Unto the good gentles of the Riatlo doth Caradoc send his greetings.

The subject of Magicians in the middle ages is an interesting one.
The realistic magicians of the middle ages (I use the term realistic lightly)
came in two different types: Prestidigitators, and illusionists. 

Prestidigitators are "fortune-tellers", and these are divided into two
categories. Gypsies and their ilk, with their Tarot cards (my favourite),
crystal balls, and palm readings, are often found in caravans, or frequenting
festivals and tournaments. They had a tendency to be chased away by guards.
The other type is often found in the courts of royalty. It is true that Queen
Elizabeth had such an advisor  in her court who would consult smoke patterns
for her before every major decision. A great many Kings and Queens had one such
as this after the mid 14th century when the Catholic church decreed that 
it was blasphemous to not believe in Witchcraft. Often these royalty were
looked down upon by the church, but it happened anyway.

Illusionists were simply entertainers. They practiced the same kind of "magic"
that we see at smalls' birthday parties. Nothing more than fast talk and 
sleight of hand. So, these were little more than fools, and maybe minstrels.

Interesting to point out that for the better part of Period, any one who openly
professed an ability to perform serious necromantic magic was considered a 
witch. Witches were usually tortured for a few weeks and then burned or hanged.
So, claiming to be a wizard as a persona would not be too acurate.

A note on alchemists: Alchemy was considered a science in the better part of
period. It was an arcane practice, and those who worked with alchemy were
either very close to powerful nobility, or kept it very very quiet.

As to a persona, I would recommend being a fortune teller type person (gypsies
are wonderful for this, in the Barony of Darkwood we have a queen of the 
gypsies, Ellie. She's a wonderful tarot reader) or, if you can get very 
friendly with a local baron or baroness, become an advisor to them. Alchemists
would be possible, but would take much research, and come to think of it,
it would be really fun!.

Well, Enjoy yourself with whatever you do, and may St. David keep you in
his heart.


###############################################################################
Caradoc ap Gwydion 
Scribe of the College of St. David's            Chris Arnold
Barony of Darkwood,				gorilla@cats.ucsc.edu 
Principality of the Mists,              
West Kingdom.				Seneschal Heir Apparent. I'll be
					stepping up at the Darkwood-Tarnmist War
From: dlc@hpfcso.FC.HP.COM (Dennis Clark)
Date: Wed, 8 Apr 1992 14:47:51 GMT
Subject: Re: question of contest judging ethics
Organization: Hewlett-Packard, Fort Collins, CO, USA
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca

parr@acs.ucalgary.ca (Charles Parr) writes:

> I have been asked by someone else to post this to the net. I will
> simmarise for them any responses I get. I have already decided 
> my own ethical position on the matter, of course.
> 
> "Should a judge of any arts and science competition be permitted
> to enter their own work, and pass judgement upon it?"
> 
> BTW, to clarify my own opinion, I feel the answer should be
> "No." Too bad, but I've seen some questionable judging in the
> past, and *this* little situation is just bursting with
> bad-blood potential. I realise we should assume honour
> on the part of the judges, but there is also the old
> chines proverb: "Do not stoop to tie your laces in 
> your neigbhors melon patch"

  Mine own opinions are even harsher on this subject.  I don't think that
anyone who hasn't entered that catagory should judge it.  No one person has
a monopoly on knowledge of all subjects.  I think that having outside judges
is abused horribly, there is too great a problem with rules misunderstandings
and "enhanced egotism".  A good friend of mine told one laural off by saying
"I am sick and tired of you laural's supercillious sanctimocity", she said
later that the person towards whom that pique was directed probably had to 
go home and look up the words 8*() - The point being I have seen the rules
bent intentionally or accidently too often to have any faith whatsoever in 
outside judged competitions.  My solution is this:
  Have all of the entrants to a catagory get together and decide which entry
they like the best.  Let them discuss periodness, practice, and performance
and then all will learn something, as well as deciding the winner of the
catagory.  In this manner someone (or more than one) will win, and all will
benefit without bad blood or hurt feelings.  If there aren't enough entries
in a catagory to judge by group, then combine with a similar one to help out,
or just call a default win (however this is scored at that event.)  This will
eliminate the problem of having an expert in weaving trying to judge wood-
carving. 

Kevin
 
> Carolus Mediocris
From: Tim@f4229.n124.z1.fidonet.org (Tim)
Sender: FredGate@ocitor.fidonet
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: Mundane Name Loophole
Date: Sun, 12 Apr 1992 21:06:30

 Fra Tadhg Liath unto Landon of Wulfkeep and all others unto whom these
 presents shall have come giveth greeting:

 In a recent message, Master Arval Benicoeur wrote:

 JM> I think that most of us expect people to
 JM> improve their outward appearance over their SCA-lifetime, and to look more
 JM> medieval.  Why is one's name different?  I realize that names are closely
 JM> tied to identity, and that it is a bother to change one's SCA name (though
 JM> less than most people would believe).

 I should like to add that everyone who desires to make a good faith effort
 to "make their name more medieval" and is willing to work with the heralds
 in that spirit has an excellent chance of coming away both satisfied and
 more authentic. We've been able to document some of the most *unlikely*
 things; things that would astound you.

 Take your name, for example. I don't find "Landon" in any of the standard
 name references that I have close to hand, but Hanks & Hodges "A Dictionary
 of Surnames" mentions the Italian name "Landone" as a variant of "Lance",
 which comes from the Germanic personal name "Lanzo". Poof! Add an 'e', and
 you're documented. (If you choose to pronounce it with two syllables rather
 than three, hey, it's your name...)

 You don't want Italian? No problem! What would you like? Something to
 match "of Wulfkeep"? Hey, not to worry. How about Norse? Geirr Bassi cites
 the given name "Landi", meaning "landsman, countryman". How about
 Anglo-Saxon? Searle cites "Landac" and "Landuc" as personal names dating
 from the reign of Edward I. Unfortunately, I don't have any references that
 deal with German names, but there are others in the College of Arms that
 do, and would be *delighted* to take an unhistorical name and find a
 documentable near-form for you. And all this for well under ten bucks!
 Where you gonna get a deal like that from an armorer? or a costumer? If you
 are willing to *work with us*, we will *work for you*, guaranteed.

        Tadhg



 * Origin: Herald's Point * Steppes/Ansteorra * 214-699-0057 (1:124/4229)
From: james@wrs.com (James Moore)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: Gaeliword for "valor"
Date: 10 Apr 92 18:00:20 GMT
Organization: Wind River Systems, Inc.

james@wrs.com (James Moore) writes:

>It's been a while since I've done much reading in Irish, but I think
>that "gaisce" is perhaps a more common word than any of these.
>The pronunciation is something like "gawsh-kuh."

Turns out I was thinking of a similar but not identical word.  I just
got out my copy of Nessa Ni/ She/'s
edition of the Toraiocht Dhiarmada agus Ghrainne (the Pursuit of Diarmaid
and Grainne) and checked the vocabulary there.  She gives:

gaisceadh ( = gaisce):  gni/omhartha calma, cleasai/ocht chogaidh
gal: gaisce (fe/ach thuas)

Translated into English:
gaisceadh ( = gaisce):  brave deads, warlike tricks (but tricks
    without negative connotations, it's hard to find a good English
    equivilent)
gal: gaisce (see above)

My professor's dictionary for the same work gives:

gal: n. f. "ardor; valor, fury; steam"

And the RIA's Dictionary of the Irish Language gives:

gal: a) warlike ardour, fury, valour b) steam, vapour, mist.  There's
an interesting comment:  "Possibly orig. sense is seething heat,
passing into that of mental excitement or rage."

So I would suggest "gal" rather than "gaisce."

--
James Moore                                 | james@wrs.com
Wind River Systems                          | Alameda, California
      "Half of what he said meant something else, and the other half meant
				nothing at all"
From: christer@sue.komunity.se (Christer Romson)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Title stacking
Date: 14 Apr 92 16:58:58 GMT
Organization: The Internet
X-Unparsable-Date: Tue, 14 Apr 92 17: 13 MET DST

A. J. S. Nusbacher said that "stacking titles is not authentic". 

Well, I've seen it used quite authenticly and almost period, at that, in a
grant of arms by Queen Kristina of Sweden (reigned for ~10 years after her
father's death 1632). She was stacking half a dozen titles. I wouldn't be
surpried to find that it was done before the 17:th century.
 ----------------------------  
  |\  | |   /|   | |\  \ | /   
  | \ | |  * |  /| | >  \|/    SCA: Lindorm Eriksson, Nordmark, Drachenw., East
  |   | |\   | / | |/    |     Mundane: Christer Romson, Stockholm, Sweden.
  |   | | \  |  /| |\    |     Email: christer@Sue.KOMunity.Se
  |   | |    | / | | \   |   
  |   | |    |   | |  \  |   
 ----------------------------
From: jtn@nutter.cs.vt.edu (Terry Nutter)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: Mundane Interactions
Date: 14 Apr 92 03:14:46 GMT
Followup-To: jtn@vtopus.cs.vt.edu
Organization: SCA

Unto the good gentles of the Rialto does Lord Hossein Ali Qomi send
greetings and prayers for the blessings of Allah.

Master Bertram wrote:

>: "No, we're in a play..."
>: 
>:   Part of the delight of such stories is how they seem to be regenerated
>: in each new SCA generation.  I heard such a tale as a newcomer back in
>: A.S. XI and I'm sure something similar happened in the dim and distant
>: "Mists" of time that served as a model for those that would come after.

I suppose I take my life in my hands telling this story, but some years
ago Duke Sir Charles Inman McMoor and I were visiting a convenience store
in the vicinity of the site of an Ansteorran tourney.  Apparently they had seen
rather a few SCAdians that day and asked the garbed two of us, "Are you in
the SCA?"  Inman smiled broadly and relied, "Hell, I'm in a play."  As
we were going back to our vehicle, he turned to me, grinning ear-to-ear,
and said, "Damn, I've been waiting eight years to do that." (Inman was
once with the American Shakespeare Company as a professional actor, so
there was more to it than _just_ the impish impulse).  There was a charming,
if somewhat piquant, Blackfox cartoon a few years ago which traced the
evolution from newbie to Duke which might have some application here.

In Service to the Telling of Tales Perhaps Better Left Untold,

Hossein
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
From: christer@sue.komunity.se (Christer Romson)
Subject: M-word: new ruling from Hilary
X-Unparsable-Date: Fri, 10 Apr 92 16: 09 MET DST
Organization: The Internet
Date: Fri, 10 Apr 1992 14:23:28 GMT

Gospodin Mikhail:
> Alyson Throckmorton, corporate secretary, pointed out that the reason
> that autocrats must be members is inherent in their ability to make
> contractual obligations for the SCA, Inc.

Are you saying that according to Alyson the SAC, Inc. may not warrant a
non-member to make contractual obligations for the SCA, Inc.? 

Is there anyone around who feel qualified to comment if what I perceived
Lady Alyson meant, is correct or not?
----------------------------  
 |\  | |   /|   | |\  \ | /   
 | \ | |  * |  /| | >  \|/    SCA: Lindorm Eriksson, Nordmark, Drachenw., East
 |   | |\   | / | |/    |     Mundane: Christer Romson, Stockholm, Sweden.
 |   | | \  |  /| |\    |     Email: christer@Sue.KOMunity.Se
 |   | |    | / | | \   |   
 |   | |    |   | |  \  |   
----------------------------
From: lawbkwn@buacca.BITNET (Yaakov HaMizrachi)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Welsh jokes
Date: 14 Apr 92 19:43:34 GMT
Organization: The Internet

Greetings to whomever reads this
missive from Yaakov, may the
Holy One afflict all tax collectors with
boils upon their most sensitive regions.

Around here, there is a running gag
called 'vowels for Wales.' This is typically
invoked if someone submits a welsh name, or
someone mangles the pronounciation.
People stick out their hands, as if begging
for alms, and say "Vowels? Vowels for Wales?"
There is a conflict of opinion as to what
the Welsh did with their vowels.  My lady
maintains they can't afford 'em, as vowels
cost $250 and consenents are free.  I
maintain that God gave the Welsh as many vowels
as he gave anyone else, but they were so
poor they had to sell them (I think to
the Hawaiians) or eat them (which is
why Welsh sounds so much like gagging.)

:) :) :) :) :)
Yaakov HaMizrachi
(Who can't understand why people
seem to have problems with his last name.)