HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: hallam@zeus02.desy.de (Phillip M. Hallam-Baker)
Subject: Re: SuperCollider: "For" or "Against" -- Tell the Committee  @ tele...
Reply-To: hallam@zeus02.desy.de
Organization: DESY ZEUS Central Data Acquisition
Date: Sat, 25 Jul 1992 17:28:55 GMT

In article <1992Jul24.171755.25005@sifon.cc.mcgill.ca>, MrEd@GreenAcres writes:

|>In article <Brw9w7.G0G@apollo.hp.com> nelson_p@apollo.hp.com (Peter Nelson)  
|>writes:
|>> In article <1992Jul24.081846.20002@dscomsf.desy.de> hallam@zeus02.desy.de  
|>writes:
|>> >In article <01GMPYXLP9GW001CAQ@utarlg.uta.edu>, B645ZAW@UTARLG.UTA.EDU
|>> >(Stephen Tice) writes:
|>> >
|>> >|>What they aren't saying in the Dallas Morning News is that it
|>> >|>cost about $8 billion to construct the SSC over 8 years, that
|>> >|>it has about a 25 year projected lifespan and that it will
|>> >|>take about a billion dollars a year to run.
|>> >
|>> >Thats because it's not true.
|>> >
|>then (a) how much will it cost to construct
|>      (b) how long is the lifespan	
|>       (c) how much will it cost to run each year.
|>If you don't know the figures, how can you possibly say that those
|>provided by  
|>the previous poster were inaccurate. 

I don't need top know the day of Napoleans death to know that it wasn't
after 1945.

If you want exact figures then  we will have to wait until after GEM and
SDC submit their proposals.

What I can say is that there is no reason why the running costs for the
SSC should be substantialy higher than they are for HERA ZEUS and H1 and
that these are at least three orders of magnitude less than Mr Tice's
claim.


As for the lifespan, the purpose of the SSC is to find things out. If it
ceases to find things out then however successful it has been it will
get closed. If the results suggest that with certain modifications such
as a different detector design or whatever that the SSC could be used
for a further experiment it may well happen. Ultimately the lifetime of
a machine like that is unknowable. In order to tell you I would have to
know the things it is built to find out.

Please don't assume that I am arguing either for or against here. I am
merely pointing out that Mr Tice has not got his facts straight. Until
we have agreement on what the costs are likely to be there is little
point in arguing any further.


Phill Hallam-Baker
Newsgroups: talk.politics.misc,ca.politics
From: ronp@dazixca.ingr.com (Ron Phillips)
Subject: Re: aids conference in cuba
Organization: DAZIX / An Intergraph Company
Date: Mon, 27 Jul 1992 14:06:36 GMT

In article <l70h5iINNij@spim.mips.com> mpolen@gelato.mips.com (Michael Polen) writes:
>I would be nice for you if everything were this simple.  They you wouldn't
>have to worry.  But the answer is no.  Aids in heterosexual women is being
>contracted in seeral ways:
>
>	IV drug use (it certainly exists)
>	Sex with infected males (do you know the history of anyone you have
>		ever had sex with)
>	Blood Transfusions (women are more likely to have surgery in their
>		early years than men).

In reality, according to the CDC in Atlanta, the vast majority of last 
years new HIV positive detections among women can be classified into two
groups:

   1. IV drug users
   2. Women having sex with their IV drug using partners.

************************************************************
*Ron Phillips                        ronp@dazixca.ingr.com *
*Senior Customer Engineer                                  *
*DAZIX / An Intergraph Company                             *
*381 East Evelyn Avenue              VOICE: (415) 691-6473 *
*Mountain View, CA 94041             FAX:   (415) 691-0350 *
************************************************************
Xref: sparky talk.politics.misc:35786 ca.politics:5989 ba.politics:3739
From: kane@buast7.bu.edu (Hot Young Star)
Newsgroups: talk.politics.misc,ca.politics,ba.politics
Subject: Interesting Revelation (WAS Re: Libertarian Platform)
Date: 24 Jul 92 15:27:35 GMT
	    <91616@bu.edu>
	    <11379@optilink.UUCP>
Followup-To: talk.politics.misc
Organization: Astronomy Department, Boston University, Boston, MA, USA

In article <11379@optilink.UUCP> cramer@optilink.UUCP (Clayton Cramer) writes:

>The Libertarian Party has a bunch of ideologues who write the party
>platform, and don't think very carefully about the consequences.
[...]
>The poor grasp of reality of the LP ideologues, and the inability
>of the ideologues to admit that they have engaged in a significant
>distortion of American history to justify their position, is one
>of the reasons I am no longer a member of the LP.  I am not even
>a small-l libertarian, but a classical liberal with libertarian
>leanings.

This was quite an informative revelation. In light of your arguing that
moral theory is based on absolutes, as opposed to the absence of coercion,
I would have to agree that you are not a L[/l]ibertarian. But some would
argue that moral theory based on absolutes is not classical liberalism
at all but classical _conservatism_, as opposed to the current flavor
of conservatism. That is, the credo espoused by the recently out-of-the
closet homosexual conservative Marvin [what's his surname: the ex-honcho of
W.F. Buckley?], the-live-and-let-live theory of conservatism.

In my opinion, the greatest difference between the political parties today
are their moral theories:

Democrats: morality arises from the necessity of promoting the common good
of the people, and protecting the primacy of individual rights over group
rights.

Libertarians: morality arises from the elimination of coercive power over
the individual

Republicans: morality arises from eternal absolutes (some would say tradition)

I'd be interested in hearing what you consider to be the moral theory of
classical liberalism, and how it differs from your interpretation of classical
conservatism, not to mention L[/l]ibertarianism.

Brian.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
kane@{buast7,astro}.bu.edu (Hot Young Star) Astronomy Dept, Boston University,
Boston, MA 02215.=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
Newsgroups: talk.politics.misc,talk.religion.misc
From: hallam@zeus02.desy.de (Phillip M. Hallam-Baker)
Subject: Re: CLINTON: Acceptance speech text - Bible misquote
Reply-To: hallam@zeus02.desy.de
Organization: DESY ZEUS Central Data Acquisition
Date: Wed, 22 Jul 1992 17:58:54 GMT

In article <1992Jul21.230623.19849@athena.cs.uga.edu>,
hudson@athena.cs.uga.edu (Paul Hudson Jr) writes:
|>In article <1992Jul18.202823.26360@tss.com> burke@tss.com (Jim Burke)
|>writes:
|>
|>>|> Clinton also refered to his policy as a "new covenant."  I realize
|>that past
|>>|> presidents have used phrases like New Freedom and New Deal to
|>describe their
|>>|> policy agenda, and that there aren't that many good words to put
|>new in
|>>|> front of, but why did Clinton choose this wording.  The political
|>commentators
|>>So, in that sense, it's meaning isn't much different that "The New
|>Deal"
|>>since a deal and a covenent can be pretty much the same thing.  
|>
|>Not quite.  A covenant is something a bit more serious than a deal.
|>It has different connotations.

Utter bollocks.

A covenant in English law is simply a contract which does not have a
consideration. It is pledged using a special formal agreement known as a
deed which has to be `signed sealed and delivered'. There are certain
tax advantages that apply to using a covenant. My parents made one to
give me money while I was at University, I could then claim back the tax
they paid on it.

The religious conotation comes afterwards. 

In case you hadn't noticed, the Old Testament was written in Hebrew and
the New in Greek. Could someone look up Covenant in the OED to see if my
guess that Covenant comes from the Latin.  Since GB (and by default her
colonies) Law is based on Roman law I would guess that this is so.

|>>Frankly, I hate it when a religeous group tries to change the meaning of
|>>words for their own use.  
|>
|>Well, since English speaking Christians have been using "New Covenant" since
|>at least 1611 when the KJV came out.  I would guess that it would have
|>been used much earlier in the Geneva bible if not in the Bishop's Bible.

And in Scotland you will find many a Presbyterian Lawyer who would crack
up lauging if it were claimed that the word Covenant was an exclusively
religious word.

|>What annoyed me is that Clinton was using Christian termonology as a campaign
|>slogan.  maybe I am more sensitive than most, but it kind of annoys me that
|>he took phrasology from something as eternal as the Gospel of Jesus
|>Christ and tacked it on to a policy agenda that will probably end this
|>November.

Well what do you expect from a US politician? Tackyness is part of the
job description.


Who mentioned the New Deal? Of course this is what Clinton is refering
to, he wants comentators to be continualy reminding the public of the
1930's depression, caused by an unregulated stock market and cleared up
by a democrat President and Bush's recession caused by a deregulated S&L
market. Nice piece of work.


Phill Hallam-Baker
From: sunder@altair.crhc.uiuc.edu (Srinivas Sunder)
Newsgroups: talk.politics.misc
Subject: Re: Adios, Smith Corona
Date: 23 Jul 1992 15:21:58 GMT
Organization: Center for Reliable and High-Performance Computing, University of Illinois at Urbana-Champaign
Distribution: world
NNTP-Posting-Host: altair.crhc.uiuc.edu

In article <l6rn7qINN955@spim.mips.com>, mpolen@gelato.mips.com (Michael Polen) writes:
|> |> -- 
|> |> Richard Crisp         Cupertino, Ca.         crisp@netcom.com
|> |> (415) 903-3832 wk    "what, me worry?"    (408) 253 4541 fax
|> |> 
|> |> To say that Bill Clinton's alleged successes as Governor of Arkansas
|> |> qualify him to be President of the US is like saying the shoeshine
|> |> stand operator in the airport is qualified to be CEO of IBM.
|> 
|> To say that Bushs experience as an oilman in Texas when money was
|> growing on trees qualifies him to be president ....

Half-truths, half-truths...

 Bush is also a former Congressman, Ambassador to China, Chairman
of the GOP, UN Permanent Representative and Director of the CIA. Certainly
a longer (and more distinguished) resume than the one you put out. He was
also on the short-list for Vice-President when Ford stepped up to be
President after Nixon's quitting.

|> 
|> To say that Reagan's alleged successes as an actor or the head of the
|> screen actors guild qualified him to be president ...

Reagan was also a two-term Governor of California, and by most objective
judgements, a fairly successful one. Again, a better resume than the one
you put out. He also damn nearly beat Ford for the GOP nomination in 1976.


-- 
Srinivas Sunder                                         sunder@crhc.uiuc.edu

If my employer shares these opinions, he deserves them.
********************************************************************************
Xref: sparky talk.politics.misc:35746 rec.autos:18394
From: jdurbin@nl.oracle.com (Jason Durbin)
Newsgroups: talk.politics.misc,rec.autos
Subject: Re: Ban the Killer of 300,000 (losing your cars)
Date: 24 Jul 92 08:33:51 GMT
Followup-To: talk.politics.misc
Organization: Oracle Europe

In article <rdippold.711922794@cancun>, rdippold@cancun.qualcomm.com (Ron Dippold) writes:
|> pswanson@phoenix.Princeton.EDU (Paul Swanson) writes:
|> >More control?!  When was the last time you tried to drive somewhere
|> >without the use of a road?  It seems to me that if it weren't for
|> >government cars would be useless in the first place.
|> 
|> Really.  Without the super-intelligent government to build all these
|> roads for us, we'd all be too stupid to realize that we wanted roads,
|> much less come up with the concept, and even with all the demand there
|> wouldn't be anyone who was willing to build roads...  Not a chance.
|> -- 
|> Life is a game of bridge - and you have just been finessed.

And you think the taxes you pay to the government for road use are high
now. Just wait until the tolls you pay are driven by market forces.

Jason Durbin
Technology Division
Oracle Europe
Newsgroups: talk.politics.misc
From: burke@tss.com (Jim Burke)
Subject: Re: Libertarian Platform
Reply-To: burke@tss.com (Jim Burke)
Organization: Teknekron Software Systems. Inc.
Date: Thu, 23 Jul 1992 20:07:58 GMT

In article <archer.150@utkux1.utk.edu>, archer@utkux1.utk.edu (T. Archer) writes:

|> I apologise.  Some of this is my fault, although Jim's bias predated my 
|> comments.  I somehow managed to allow myself to be manipulated into 
|> supporting pedophelia, a position that neither I, nor the libertarians 
|> support.  I let my defense of freedom of association get wander afield.

Hiya.  Just to clarify something here - I never interpreted anything you
posted to mean that you personally supported pedophelia.  I don't recall
ever accussing any individual of supporting pedophilia.  I was simply
pointing out specific language in the Libertarian Platform (as it was
posted - I assume it was correct since nobody challanged it) that would
invalidate all current laws against pedophilia.  And, if you combine the
language guaranteeing children full access to sexual material, give 
children the right to consent to sex, and remove age as a basis for law,
you end up with a platform that would not allow the government to outlaw
pedophilia.  I never inteded to say anything about any individual, only
about the platform (which is what was being discussed).

-- 

	Jim Burke	"Life is uncertain - eat dessert first!"
	Teknekron Software Systems		... burke@tss.com
  	phone:(415) 617-2432			... uunet!tekbspa!burke
Newsgroups: talk.politics.misc,alt.politics.clinton
From: shore@dinah.tc.cornell.edu (Melinda Shore)
Subject: Re: Which of you is 'good enough' ?
Reply-To: shore@tc.cornell.edu
Organization: Cornell Theory Center
Distribution: usa
Date: Wed, 22 Jul 1992 13:59:32 GMT

In article <vhfmzz-.crisp@netcom.com>, crisp@netcom.com (Richard Crisp) writes:
> In article <1992Jul20.223738.6179@athena.cs.uga.edu> heath@athena.cs.uga.edu (Terrance Heath) writes:
> >Well I have two strikes against me. I'm black. I'm gay. I think its
  
> Save it for Donohue we don't need it here.

Actually, we *do* need it here.  Among other things, the
past 12 years of Republican administration has been marked
by increasing divisiveness in this country and an escalation
in the number of hate crimes.  We've seen the resurgence of
white extremist organizations and we've seen people like David
Duke enter the Republican party.  We have the AIDS crisis,
which could have been contained early on if the federal
government hadn't treated it as a disease of those "other"
people and had stopped obstructing safe sex education and
needle exchanges.  And, of course, we have the deterioration
of our inner cities and overt racism on the part of those
who are supposed to be protecting all citizens.

The kind of hate and alienation being promoted by our
Republican presidents has hardly led to a "kinder, gentler"
nation.  It's led to an angry, ailing, impoverished nation.
-- 
       Melinda Shore - Cornell Theory Center - shore@tc.cornell.edu
Newsgroups: talk.politics.misc
From: pas@anchor.unh.edu (Paul A Sand)
Subject: Re: Jessie Jackson and Jesus
Organization: University of New Hampshire
Date: Wed, 22 Jul 1992 13:34:54 GMT

jj> == Jesse Jackson, quoted by Wayne Christopher.

jj> "Lastly, there's a lot of talk these days about family values. Even
    as we spurn the homeless on the street, remember, Jesus was born to
    a homeless couple, outdoors in a stable, in the winter.

As the Wall Street Journal pointed out, Jesse conveniently omitted
mentioning that Joseph and Mary were `homeless' because they were being
ordered around by the tax-happy bureaucrats of the time. I doubt if
that observation would have had the Democrats cheering quite so much.
-- 
-- Paul A. Sand           | I learned to put the [toilet] seat down...it
-- Univ. of New Hampshire | makes you look like a warm, caring, sensitive
-- pas@kepler.unh.edu     | human being. (Prof. R. Noble, from r.h.f.)
Newsgroups: talk.politics.misc
From: neufeld@helios.physics.utoronto.ca (Christopher Neufeld)
Subject: Drills (was Re: College Pranks)
Keywords: Ditch Day, vanishing room
Organization: University of Toronto Physics/Astronomy/CITA
Date: Mon, 27 Jul 1992 07:05:13 GMT

In article <4098@news.duke.edu> klg@panda.mc.duke.edu (Kim Greer -- rjj) writes:
> Speaking of drilling, has anyone else heard this story? :
>
>  - Americans (around the time of WWII, for some reason) proudly show off
>	their very small drill bit as example of fine craftsmanship
>
>  - send aforementioned drill bit to German engineers
>
>  - Germans send drill bit back with a hole drilled through long axis of bit
>
>I've heard it a couple of other times in the last 25
>years or so, but of course, no one ever seems to know any details.
>
   I heard this a couple of years ago, but it supposedly happened more
recently, and the clever opponents were Japanese, not German. I think the
hole was supposedly drilled transversely, across the shaft, rather than
down the length of the shaft.

>Kim L. Greer                        klg@orion.mc.duke.edu


-- 
 Christopher Neufeld....Just a graduate student  | Talk sense to a fool
 neufeld@helios.physics.utoronto.ca    Ad astra  | and he calls you
 cneufeld@terranet.cts.com                       | foolish.
 "Don't edit reality for the sake of simplicity" |       - Euripides
Xref: sparky talk.politics.misc:35222 ca.politics:5935 ba.politics:3708
From: kane@buast7.bu.edu (Hot Young Star)
Newsgroups: talk.politics.misc,ca.politics,ba.politics
Subject: Re: Libertarian Platform
Date: 22 Jul 92 15:01:27 GMT
Followup-To: talk.politics.misc
Organization: Astronomy Department, Boston University, Boston, MA, USA

In article <1992Jul17.085243.8771@bsu-ucs.uucp>
00bjmccauley@bsu-ucs.uucp writes:

[...]
>--------------------------------------------------------------------------
>                        1992 National Platform
>                                of the
>                          Libertarian Party
[...]
[VICTIMLESS CRIMES Section:]
>d.the repeal of all laws regarding consensual sexual relations,
[...]
>e.the repeal of all laws regulating or prohibiting the possession,
>use, sale, production, or distribution of sexually explicit material,
[...]
[CHILDREN'S RIGHTS Section:]
>Children are human beings and, as such, have all the rights of human
>beings. We recognize that children who have not reached maturity need
>guardians

[***How is "maturity" defined?***]

[...]
>we oppose government discrimination directed at any other artificially
>defined sub-category of human beings.
[...]
>Children should always have the right to establish their maturity by
>assuming administration and protection of their own rights, ending
>dependency upon their parents or other guardians and assuming all the
>responsibilities of adulthood.
[...]
[POPULATION Section:]
>we call for the
>repeal of all laws that restrict anyone, including children, from
>engaging in voluntary exchanges of goods, services, or information
>regarding human sexuality, reproduction, birth control, or related
>medical or biological technologies.
[...]
--------------------------------------------------------------------------

So Mr Cramer, are you now going to make the equally ridiculous claim that
your party, the Libertarian Party, is in league with the "gay community"
as "defenders of NAMBLA"? Discuss of age of consent laws and the ability
of children to be free to obtain information about sexuality, in soc.motss,
led you to the ridiculous claim that gays supported child molestation.
Are you now going to make equally ridiculous claims against your own party?

------------------------------------------------------------------------------
kane@{buast7,astro}.bu.edu (Hot Young Star) Astronomy Dept, Boston University,
Boston, MA 02215.=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
Xref: sparky talk.politics.misc:36446 ca.politics:6108 ba.politics:3848
From: kane@buast7.bu.edu (Hot Young Star)
Newsgroups: talk.politics.misc,ca.politics,ba.politics
Subject: Re: Against Our Will
Date: 29 Jul 92 15:06:02 GMT
Followup-To: talk.politics.misc
Organization: Astronomy Department, Boston University, Boston, MA, USA

In article <11448@optilink.UUCP> cramer@optilink.UUCP (Clayton Cramer) writes:

>> Most child molesters are heterosexual men. 

>Of course.  Heterosexual men outnumber homosexual men by a large
>percentage.  However, females (for many reasons, both cultural
>and biological) are considerably less likely to respond to abuse
     ^^^^^^^^^^
>with violence.

You stooge! You have the nerve to call me a sexist for pointing out
that their are slight biological differences between male and female
brains, and therefore their approach to problem solving, and now
you say they are partly biologically disposed to self-destruction as
a response to abuse.

Hypocrite.
From: pphan@hpldsla.sid.hp.com (Pham Phan)
Date: Fri, 24 Jul 1992 02:13:22 GMT
Subject: need Clinton's e-mail address
Organization: HP Scientific Instruments Division - Palo Alto, CA
Newsgroups: talk.politics.misc



Hi,friends

I would like to receive the e-mail address of Bill Clinton and Al Gore's
campaign office. So,if you know any,please e-mail to me or post it.

Thanks,

Pham
From: marotenb@sdcc13.ucsd.edu (Mark Rotenberg)
Newsgroups: talk.politics.misc
Subject: Re: Bush/Baker Ticket??
Date: 28 Jul 92 06:38:45 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: University of California, San Diego

pajerek@kadsma.kodak.com (Don Pajerek) writes:

> Quayle is not going to leave the ticket, either voluntarily or not. Quayle
> is Bush's main link to the hard-core conservatives who constitute the core
> of the Republican vote. Dropping Quayle, especially replacing him with Baker,
> would probably cause these voters to sit out the election.

These are not the kind of voters who "sit out" elections, no matter how bad
the choices are.  I'd bet that ultra-liberals would be more likely to sit out
an election if the Democrats were fronting a "moderate", than
ultra-conservatives would be if the Republicans fronted a "moderate".

Clinton is doing well because he has broad support, regardless of his moderate
stances on many issues.  Bush is doing badly because he hasn't succeeded in
satisfying much of anybody, moderate or conservative.  Bush's problem isn't
Dan Quayle as much as it's George Bush.  Keeping Quayle on board has to do
with principle (not changing staff mid-stream) and convenience (as long as Dan
does the negative campaigning nobody will bat an eye).

As much as I would rather see Baker than Quayle, I realize that Baker has some
skeletons in his closet which would haunt the ticket even more than an
occasional Quayle Gaffe...

> >===========================================================================
> >|David Veal  PA146008@utkvm1.utk.edu  University of Tennessee             |  
> >|                                     Division of Continuing Education    |
> >| Statistics are any data which can be twisted to support your posititon  | 
> >===========================================================================

> Don Pajerek
								Mark Rotenberg
								mrote@ucsd.edu
Newsgroups: talk.politics.misc,alt.folklore.urban