HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: faris@sarcasm.trl.OZ.AU (Aziz Faris)
Subject: Re: STOP IT
Reply-To: a.Faris@trl.oz.au 
Organization: Telecom Research Labs, Melbourne,Australia
Date: Fri, 22 Jan 1993 00:21:29 GMT

In article <1993Jan21.200433.5868@news.columbia.edu>, jaa12@cunixa.cc.columbia.edu (John A Absood) writes:
|> 
|> Yes, I think I like your message very much.
|> 
|> I did not intend to single out Mr. Hamza though I find his remarks
|> particularly problematic as they tend to attack entire people (religions)
|> rather than specific individuals with whom he disagrees.

For your information, Mr. Salah knows of no individual, entire parties are
gulty and doomed in his mode of thought.
|> 
|> Though Mr. Oueichek is a good friend of mine, I must say in all honesty
|> that I emphatically disapprove of the style he and Mr. Faris use as well.

May I ask what style is that. I admit I have been very harsh on him at times,
however, that was only in response to his approach.

|> 
|> In other words, let us *ALL* grow up and try to show some respect for
|> each other.

This whole discussion became abusive in an attempt to make him grow up. You be
the judge. I have failed miserably.

|> 
|> Endless flames do not accomplish anything productive. They don't help
|> us build the bridges that we need. They only serve to turn the clock
|> back and force us back to square one.

The clock has been turning back, those discussion were aimed to stop it and
make it move forward. To quote a peice of trash who wrote me personally,
"You dream, there will be no unity except under the rules of Islam".
Regrettably, he did not say which version of Islam.

|> 
|> I hope that *ALL* parties involved will take the necessary measures
|> to end this infantile conduct and get on with bigger and better things.

I agree, what are they though?.

A.Faris
Newsgroups: soc.culture.arabic
From: nabeel@sce.carleton.ca (Bulbul)
Subject: Re: Sadam
Organization: Carleton University
Date: Tue, 26 Jan 1993 17:24:29 GMT

In <1690@yetti.UUCP> aboelaze@cs.yorku.ca (Mokhtar Aboelaze) writes:

" In article <nabeel.727988902@oracle.sce.carleton.ca> nabeel@sce.carleton.ca (Bulbul) writes:
" Some discussion about is Saadam a Moslem or not.

" >   JLE's idea was that, whatever Saddam has done does not deny him the
" >chance of repentance. [As I understand it.]

" First, it is not "has done" it is "still doing", there is a big difference.

" Second, What exactly do you mean by "repentence".
" To the best of my knowledge, to repent, you have to acknowledge first
" that you have done something wrong and vow not to repeat it again.
" When did Sadam acknowledge any thing wrong he has done ?
" if you have any information about this, please let us know, I am willing
" to be persuaded.

   I am very careful, contrary to rumours on the net; I did not say
Saddam is Muslim or not. I was being general. I do not know what
he is doing, but whatever it is, I have reason to believe he is not
the worst Arab ruler, probably, not even in the bottom five!

" >
" >" >jle
" >

" >   If you are a Muslim ruler and some people opposed you, would you be
" >patting their backs because they are Muslims?
" >

" That is a very hypothetical question. However, my answer is 
" I WILL NOT KILL THEM unelss there is something mysterious about being
" in power that completely ruin people mind and turn them into power hungary
" murderers.

   It depends how you look at it. Ali (raa) fought Mu`awiyah (raa),
give yourself some room to maneuvre (in the future).

** ra.hima al-'ilaahu 'akaariman wa .haraa'iran
     sakanoo al-jazeerata wa al-zzamaanu ^sabaabu
   yaa .saa.hi 'in zurta al-madeenata balli.gan
     minnee  salaaman   wa  al-ssalaamu   kitaabu
                                    --<NMG>, 1993


Newsgroups: soc.culture.arabic,talk.politics.mideast
From: odattn@.ic.ac.uk (Mr O. Dattner)
Subject: Re: BUSH BOMBS ISLAMIC CONFERENCE TODAY
Organization: Imperial College
Date: Thu, 21 Jan 93 11:42:01 GMT

In article <BASHFORD.93Jan20000525@zippy.scripps.edu> bashford@scripps.edu (Don &) writes:
>>>>>> In article <1993Jan18.202703.1581@galileo.cc.rochester.edu>, abde@troi.cc.rochester.edu (Tamer A. Abdelgawad) writes:
>
>TAA> 2.  Why in hell would the U.S. (and its allies) bomb a Hotel that houses
>TAA>     a large number of foreign news correspondants, and probably a large
>TAA>     number of UN inspection team members?  Do you guys know something the
>TAA>     rest of us don't?  Has the US invented 'genius bombs' (as opposed to
>TAA>     just 'smart' ones) that stop and ask patrons:  Are you Wolf Blitzer?
>
>TAA> Please think before you post.
>
>Well, the now-US-acknowledged fact the a cruise missile hit the Al Rasheed,
>of all places, when the putative target was 13 miles to the South East
>certainly requires explanation and invites speculations.
>
>So here are three SPECULATIONS by me, arranged in descending order of
>probability:
>
>1)  The US thought that Saddam was in the Hotel or in a secret bunker
>    below the hotel.  Some of you may recall charges made during the
>    Gulf War that there was some sort of secret Iraqi bunker under the
>    Al Rasheed & that foreign journalists, conferees, etc. were, in
>    effect, being exploited as shields.  What more perfect place for
>    Saddam to hide during an attack, especially if he wanted to meet
>    with the delegates at the Islamic conference on that day?  Had
>    the US been successful at "taking out Saddam" Bush might have
>    considered it worth the embarassment of killing a bunch of Islamists
>    and journalists (neither being too popular with Bush anyway).
>
>2)  It was just an incredable coincidence.
>
>3)  Those wily Iraqis have invented SMART FLAK, an amazing new weapon
>    that precisely deflects cruise missles away from far-off targets
>    and onto other targets carefully selected for their propaganda
>    value and simultaneously deactivates their main warhead so the damage
>    won't be TOO bad ... just bad enough.
>
>Don B.
>

Even though 2 *seems* it's far more probable than 1. If the US wanted to bomb
the Al Rasheed it would not be standing today. Even if they wanted to make it 
look like an accident by hitting it with 1 missile, alot more damage would 
have been don.

Come to think of it, no. 3 seems more likely than no.1

Ori
From: bour@unixg.ubc.ca (Moez Bouraoui)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.arabic
Subject: Re: E-MAIL ADDRESS IN TUNISIA
Date: 23 Jan 1993 23:31:38 GMT
Organization: University of British Columbia, Vancouver, B.C., Canada
NNTP-Posting-Host: unixg.ubc.ca




      Hi Mourad,

      I suggest that you post a message in Tunis-Net. I hope someone
      would give e-mail addresses in Tunisia.
      The address of Tunis-net is:  tunisnet@psuvm.bitnet
 

      Good luck

      Moez.  

 
Xref: sparky soc.culture.arabic:6948 talk.politics.mideast:26322
From: martillo@nero.clearpoint.com (Joachim Carlo Santos Martillo Ajami)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.arabic,talk.politics.mideast
Subject: Re: Name of Palestinian Deportees (part i)
Date: 26 Jan 93 09:31:03 GMT
Organization: Clearpoint Research Corp., Hopkinton Mass.

In article <1993Jan25.200913.15014@cs.brown.edu> hm@cs.brown.edu (Harry Mamaysky) writes:
>In article <1993Jan24.232316.505@nighthawk.clearpoint.com>, martillo@nero.clearpoint.com (Joachim Carlo Santos Martillo Ajami) writes:

>|>    From: astein@nysernet.org (Alan Stein)

>|>    The Jews in the sections of Jerusalem taken over by the Arabs were
>|>    kicked out of their homes.  The Arabs who left their homes, with
>|>    precious few exceptions, left voluntarily of their own free will.

>|> If I say to you give me your money or I will kill you, and you give me
>|> your money, by your logic I can argue, you gave me your money of your
>|> own free will, and therefore I have every right to keep your money.

>This analogy is clearly inappropriate. If the Arabs had been
>approached and told to leave their homes in order to avoid some harm
>which would be directed at them, then we may certainly claim that they
>did not leave of their own free will. However, Alan Stein is claiming
>that exactly the opposite happened - that no coercion was used and
>that the Arabs left voluntarily.

>Harry.

Excuse me, but a war was in process.  Leaving temporarily was a
no-brainer.  No one needed to tell Arab people that leaving
temporarily would enable them to avoid harm.  Nor was common sense
confined to Arab people.  I know several Jewish families who decided
to abandon Palestine temporily until the partition war was ovver.

And in either case leaving for Cairo because your neighborhood is
about to turn into a war zone seems a lot less voluntary to me than
leaving for Cairo because you like the climate of Cairo better.



-- 
Joachim Carlo Santos Martillo Ajami

The article represents noone's opinions other than the author's.
Newsgroups: soc.culture.arabic
From: niepornt@phoenix.Princeton.EDU (David Marc Nieporent)
Subject: Re: WHERE DO THE "palestinians" COME FROM?
Originator: news@nimaster
Organization: Princeton University
Date: Thu, 21 Jan 1993 01:23:13 GMT

In article <C146E6.2s5@techbook.com> gummitch@techbook.com (Jeff Frane) writes:
>jake@bony1.bony.com (Jake Livni) writes:
>>In article <1j0f3lINNfe0@shelley.u.washington.edu> kaygee@hardy.u.washington.edu (Kevin Giansante) writes:

>>>Get used to it, Paul.  There's a lot of that going around.  You
>>>disagree with something somebody says, and right away you're a
>>>racist, or a misogynist, or homophobic...

>>People who make unfounded and scurillous accusations against Israel
>>might be simply ignorant and mis-informed.

>>People who persist in this behavior even after having the facts laid
>>out for them are usually anti-Semitic.

>>Which group are you in?

>The great thing about this sort of definition is that people like Livni
>get to decide what comprises "unfounded and scurillous accusations
>against Israel."  Too often, _any_ accusation is a red flag to Livni.

Unless it's an accusation *by* a Jew against a black person.  Then the
accusation is obviously correct.

-- 
David M. Nieporent   | "We don't need anymore [sic] wretched refuse.  It's 
niepornt@phoenix.    |  time to send the Statue of Liberty somewhere else"
   princeton.edu     |      -- Jack "Not a bigot" Schmidling, 1/7/93
Baltimore Orioles 93 |
Newsgroups: soc.culture.arabic
From: dzk@cs.brown.edu (Danny Keren)
Subject: Re: Jews and Ozir (Was Re: What is H a m a s ??)
Organization: Brown University Department of Computer Science
Date: Mon, 25 Jan 1993 15:05:33 GMT

cl056@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Hamaza H. Salah) writes:

# I would like to tell you that the story of Ozair is not the only crime the
# Jews have commited against their religions, the Prophets, and Allah.  They 
# killed so many Prophets as well as so many good people who call for justice.
# They have many false imaginations about Allah.  They believe that Allah is
# a human-like and that Yacob defeated him breaking his leg.  They believe that
# Yacob force Allah, after breaking his leg, to call him Israel, etc.

Oh, stop with your Jew-hating rubbish already. Stop slandering Judaism
and spreading hatered, you ignorant twerp.

Just for the record, Jacob fought with an *angel*, not with God. Why
don't you shut your trap and stop talking about things you know
nothing about? Sigh.

-Danny Keren.

Newsgroups: soc.culture.arabic
From:  (Rashid)
Subject: Test
Followup-To: soc.culture.arabic
Organization: NH
Date: Fri, 22 Jan 1993 15:32:19 GMT

This is a test to see if I am able to post.
Xref: sparky soc.culture.arabic:6907 talk.politics.mideast:26232
From: jhardono@ucs.indiana.edu (JUMAHADI HARDONO)
Subject: Secular, Muslim Brotherhood, and Changes
Organization: Indiana University
Date: Sat, 23 Jan 1993 09:59:27 GMT

Dear netters,
     What is happening to our muslims brothers and sisters around
the world shows to us that our brotherhood and our sensitivity
among muslims are not too strong. Maybe some of muslims
themselves are not concerned on the muslim issues around them.
maybe they only realize the importance of the sensitivity and
brotherhood when themselve are getting suffered.
     We must force strongly our government to assist these
suffered sisters and brothers in any mean that is necessary. We
cannot let our government ignore the suffer of our muslims around
us. If they do ignore it, they will be unforgiven. 
     Sometimes, muslim countries which are far from Bosnia and
Iraq wonder what the muslims around these countries (across by seas) are 
doing.Have they done something better?... Did they know that their
brothers and sisters who are living close to them are being
murders, tortured, bombarded and raped?
     Unfortunately, most of current muslim countries are being
ruled by western puppets or beggars . So, we need changes... The
solution is there... We have to replace our secular government.




hadi...
From: ahmad@ra.cs.umb.edu (Ahmad Hashem)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.arabic
Subject: Re: Arab intelletuals and the binary mind
Keywords: Bulbul, serious, sarcasm, Usenet Storm
Date: 25 Jan 93 06:43:47 GMT
Organization: University of Massachusetts at Boston

In article <C1DEB6.Dn5@newsflash.concordia.ca> ilyess@ECE.Concordia.CA (Ilyess Bdira) writes:
>
>One problem I see with Arab intellectual is the fact they have  a binary mind,
>this of course is not specific to Arabs, but I know my people more than others
>and I can only talk about them. What I mean by a binary mind is a mind that
>most of the time makes binary decisions: I like you or I hate you, It is bad
>or it is good, I adopt everything that author says, I do not recommend 
>anything that author says, etc...

Agree 100%.  I do think that we Arabs in general don't have shades of gray:
we see the world in black and white (with many exceptions, of course).  This 
does reflect intolerance and extremism, I'm afraid.  Even when we get 
educated, many of us show traces of the "binary mind" in some way or the
other.  (Note for example how Joachim Martillo Ajami on this net takes
the "black" extreme in his attacking Islam.)

Did you notice that the "double negative" is not used in the Arabic langauge?
In English, for example, one could say:

1. It is likely that....
2. It is unlikely that....
3. It is not unlikely that....

This third form, which denotes a shade between the first two, is not used 
in Arabic.

As to Sheikh Albany, I agree with you that most (if not all) scholars 
think he is a great MuHaddith but not a Faqih.  Knowing him and many of his 
followers personally, I think Sheikh Albany is the best example for the
binary mind you are talking about.  I am really not saying this to discredit
such a great scholar, but only to acknowledge something that is unfortunately
present in many of our scholars and that we should all guard against in our
lives.

Salaam, Ahmad
Newsgroups: soc.culture.arabic
From: lhermi@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (Lotfi Hermi)
Subject: Test
Organization: The Ohio State University
Date: Fri, 22 Jan 1993 17:32:14 GMT


Tamutu al-usdu fi al-ghaba'ti ju'an wa-lahmu al-zha'ni yurma lil-kila'bi


Just testing how it woul like if tranliterated differently.

Lotfi
Newsgroups: soc.culture.arabic
From: samir@tfs.com (Samir Elias)
Subject: Re: Saddam
Organization: TRW Financial Systems
Date: Tue, 26 Jan 1993 17:58:10 GMT

In article <1k3q3aINN36c@life.ai.mit.edu> steel@hal.gnu.ai.mit.edu (Nick Steel) writes:
>In article <1993Jan25.221431.13726@tfs.com> samir@tfs.com (Samir Elias) writes:
>>In article <5011@copper.Denver.Colorado.EDU> aaldoubo@copper.denver.colorado.edu (Shaqeeqa) writes:
>>>Furthermore,
>>>the statement that you made above reflects the type of propoganda that
>>>Saddam Hussein used to justify his attack and *invasion* on Kuwait.
>>
>>Do you know me to say that i am easily swayed by this type or
>>propaganda or that?? why shouldn't i after living continuosly in the
>>u.s. without leaving it for the past 8 years,be affected by the 
>>more powerfull u.s.  propaganda?? is it that the iraqi propaganda 
>
>This is the exact statement that was thrown at me in
>an argument with a Qatari (gulf man) during the Gulf War.
>He said I was brain washed with Iraqi propaganda.
>He had just arrived from Qatar, if any brain washing has taken place
>it had to be inside his head.  I've lived here for 13 years,
>I should have lots of US brain washing in my mind, not iraqi.
>
>I don't read any Iraqi papers nor I know of the name of any.
>I only use *COMMON* sense.
>
>jle
>

I thank god that there are still some arab/muslims who still do use
*COMMON* sense.














P.S.:
-----
The above reflects my opinions,they by no means reflect those of
my employer.

Newsgroups: soc.culture.arabic
From: lhermi@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (Lotfi Hermi)
Subject: Re: Arab intelletuals and the binary mind
Keywords: Bulbul, serious, sarcasm, Usenet Storm
Organization: The Ohio State University
Date: Mon, 25 Jan 1993 17:17:26 GMT

If you think a little bit in the statement of S. Al-Albani you will find that 
he was carefful not to brand Khomeini and  Shi'a in general as Kuffar but 
rather he said that who says so and so is such and such.  I do not know if that
is a sign of binarity or a sign of sitting somewhere in the gray area.  The 
fact is, in my humble judgement, that most of us arabs do not have 
accessibility to find out things for ourselves without external interference.  
People are bombarded with tons of messages everyday that sorta reinforce 
existing 'prejudices' rather than letting the people find out for their own 
where they want to go.  We have here in the university a library that I know 
for a fact if it was back home it will banned (this is the U. library) and the 
people that work in it will be jailed.   A  famous statement that people use is
the proverb: Annasu ala dini al-maliki, i.e. People follow the ways of the 
ruler.  This is not to put the blame on rulers but rather part of it is due to 
oppression, oppression of thought, of action and of any activity that would 
open up the society and let the people participate in the coloring of the map.
The ummah has a hand in this stagnation.  After all it is a feedback system.  
Ruler is good people are good, people are bad ruler is bad and vise-versa,
or kama takunu yuwalla 'alaikum, or as you are so shall be your rulers.  The 
West knows this fact very well.  There is no one really to trust because the 
people do not have a fixed set of principles that they stick to and defend to 
'to the bone'.   For that it is very hard to predict what will happen tomorrow 
in the area.

I think what Ilyess was refering to is the state if mind of people on a 
personal basis rather than a description of the general conscience of the 
ummah.  You will find a lot of variation as you go in this vast area, but I 
know for sure what wavelength everyone down deep is tuned to.  I let you guess 
it.  ( it is not what you are thinking of right now)

Lotfi
Newsgroups: soc.culture.arabic
From: faris@sarcasm.trl.OZ.AU (Aziz Faris)
Subject: Re: Religious bickering and nonsense
Reply-To: a.Faris@trl.oz.au 
Organization: Telecom Research Labs, Melbourne,Australia
Date: Thu, 21 Jan 1993 21:21:47 GMT

In article <1jjv5oINN775@usenet.INS.CWRU.Edu>, cl056@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Hamaza H. Salah) writes:
|> 
|> If you consider building the Egyption Pyramids a civilization, then it means
|> you consider slavery a civilization.  It is shame on the human beings to
|> waste the souls of tens of thousands of people for building graves for
|> corrupted kings or leaders.  **Way to civilizations before islam**

I will say that you have no appreciation for anything that existed in the
past, the present, and the future unless it is Islamic.

|> 
|> How did it use them "O Christian Man"?  Did it convert the Roman Palaces
|> and Pyramids to Islamic institution and mosques?  Did it added to more
|> suffering to humanity?

Once again you shove your feet in your throat. Many of the Coptic churches
and many Egyption temples were converted or destroyed to build Islamic
Mosques. You must have an infinite Chemical process deep down.

A.Faris
From: renault@CAM.ORG (Pierre Renault)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.arabic
Subject: Immigrated languages
Date: 24 Jan 93 23:44:59 GMT
Organization: Communications Accessibles Montreal, Quebec Canada

A friend has asked me if I could query you on the subject of
the effects of immigration on arabic languages in what way 
they relate to immigration in Europe and the Americas.

The main question is: Up to what point can an arabic minority's
language be conserved and how is this accomplished?

Also, any information on magrebin (sp?) immigration would be
appreciated, I imagine that this is in relation to Europe and 
the Americas (I don't wish to be flooded with theses on arabic
immigration from S.A to Qattar :)  )

Anything on liguistic assimilation of arabic immigrants.

Replies can be in ASCII or PostScript through email, in French or
in English, I'll print it up and pass it along to her (it's for 
her master's thesis).  Any information on where and what information
I can get through FTP would also be appreciated.

Many thanks.
From: aaldoubo@copper.denver.colorado.edu (Shaqeeqa)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.arabic
Subject: Re: Saddam
Date: 24 Jan 93 23:27:03 GMT
Organization: University of Colorado at Denver

I wrote:

>What more do you want?  The Brotherhood in Jordan is a majority in parliament
						        ^^^^^^^^
>and limited in power.  The movements around the Arab world are not even
>recognized, and as you know, in North Africa, especially in Egypt, are being
>oppressed.

I meant to say _minority_.  Excuse the error.

Anisa
Newsgroups: soc.culture.arabic
From: dzk@cs.brown.edu (Danny Keren)
Subject: Re: Jacob (was: Re: Jews and Ozir) 
Organization: Brown University Department of Computer Science
Date: Thu, 28 Jan 1993 15:52:29 GMT

ai843@yfn.ysu.edu (Ishaq S. Azzam) writes:
# 
# In a previous article, dzk@cs.brown.edu (Danny Keren) says:

[My poster about Jacob's fight with the angel deleted].
 
# Thanks for the info, however, 
# You still did not tell me what the fight was all about.

The angel was, so to say, on Esaw's team, that's why he fought
with Jacob.

-Danny Keren.
From: steel@hal.gnu.ai.mit.edu (Nick Steel)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.arabic
Subject: Re: Saddam
Date: 26 Jan 1993 16:49:46 GMT
Organization: /etc/organization
NNTP-Posting-Host: hal.ai.mit.edu

In article <1993Jan25.221431.13726@tfs.com> samir@tfs.com (Samir Elias) writes:
>In article <5011@copper.Denver.Colorado.EDU> aaldoubo@copper.denver.colorado.edu (Shaqeeqa) writes:
>>Furthermore,
>>the statement that you made above reflects the type of propoganda that
>>Saddam Hussein used to justify his attack and *invasion* on Kuwait.
>
>Do you know me to say that i am easily swayed by this type or
>propaganda or that?? why shouldn't i after living continuosly in the
>u.s. without leaving it for the past 8 years,be affected by the 
>more powerfull u.s.  propaganda?? is it that the iraqi propaganda 

This is the exact statement that was thrown at me in
an argument with a Qatari (gulf man) during the Gulf War.
He said I was brain washed with Iraqi propaganda.
He had just arrived from Qatar, if any brain washing has taken place
it had to be inside his head.  I've lived here for 13 years,
I should have lots of US brain washing in my mind, not iraqi.

I don't read any Iraqi papers nor I know of the name of any.
I only use *COMMON* sense.

jle