HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: alan@sierra.unr.edu (Alan McKay)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.basketball.pro
Subject: Armon Gilliam (was Re: 76ers need BIG-time help)
Date: 28 Dec 92 22:12:38 GMT
Reply-To: alan@wrc.unr.edu (Alan McKay)
Distribution: usa
Organization: Desert Research Institute, University of Nevada

In article <1992Dec21.134940.10896@cbnewsm.cb.att.com> jmd@cbnewsm.cb.att.com (joseph.m.dakes) writes:

>>  	2.  Trade Gilliam, Lang, Hawkins (or Hornacek) for a good center, sixers need a real one for a change.  There was talk of Hakeem that he wasnot happy in Houston,  i don't know I don't think that would go, but at least it is on the right track.
 

>Do you actually believe the Sixers would be able to acquire a player of
>Hakeem's calibre for the players you mention?  Gilliam isn't even playing
>anymore so his trade value isn't that high, if it ever was to begin with.


O.K., so what's up with Gilliam? Up until a couple of weeks ago, he was starting,
and putting up pretty good numbers; then he dissappeared from the box scores for
a game or two, and reappeared as a minor-minute player making almost ~no~
contribution. Did he get hurt? Fall out of favor with Moe?


.....al
w.a. mckay
desert research institute
reno, nevada

Newsgroups: rec.sport.basketball.pro
From: oliver@athena.mit.edu (James D. Oliver III)
Subject: Re: Spurs, etc.
Organization: Massachusetts Institute of Technology
Date: Tue, 29 Dec 1992 09:18:44 GMT

In article <1992Dec28.135655.23105@rti.rti.org> wgr@rti.rti.org wrote:

> Dennis Rodman might question whether Tarpley is the best rebounder in
> the league.

And Dennis Rodman would be wrogn.  Tarpley was head and shoulders above
everybody else, and he didn't get "stat" rebounds, but real ones.

> The main thing the Hornets are going to do with Green is pay him a lot
> less than they were paying J.R.  I don't think Charlotte's coaching staff
> or fans *hated* Reid, but they had to evaluate him as a #5 pick in the
> draft rather than as a third-string power forward.

Wrong again.  Green's getting almost exqactly the same money as Reid.

Not only that, but Reid's worked his way into the starting lineup and
averaging about 14 pts a game.  And Sidney is . . .?
____________________________
	Jim Oliver  
	oliver@athena.mit.edu /	joliver@hstbme.mit.edu
	oliver%mitwccf.BITNET@MITVMA.MIT.EDU
Newsgroups: rec.sport.basketball.pro
From: terry@leland.Stanford.EDU (Terry Wong)
Subject: Re: Lakers for Hakeem
Organization: DSG, Stanford University, CA 94305, USA
Date: Fri, 1 Jan 93 00:32:56 GMT

In article <1992Dec31.080435.43@pasadena-dc.bofa.com>, centeno@pasadena-dc.bofa.com (R. CENTENO) writes:
|> In article <1992Dec30.211456.11296@microsoft.com>,paulg@microsoft.com (Paul Goode) writes,
|> |> >Well, it may soon be time for Jerry West to act. The optimism
|> |> 
|> |> I'm thiking Vlade, Worthy, and Scott for Hakeem and draft pic(s).  Vlade 
|> |>
|> 
|> >Gosh, I bet Houston can't wait to make this deal. I mean, how often
|> >do you get to pick Jerry West's pocket like this, anyway?
|> 
|> How do you figure that would be picking West's Pocket???  First of all Vlade
|> is the 4th highest salary in the NBA.  Secondly, Worthy's and Scott's salary
|> are also high (Don't quote me, but I think Worthy is 2+ mil, and Scott is
|> 1+mil).  This would free up a substancial amount of $$$ for them to acquire
|> more players.  Thirdly, the Lakers would get the Big-Time center they always
|> wanted.

Of course, this is another ridiculous trade suggested by an overoptimistic
fan.  Not only is it a laughable offer, but impossible under the salary
cap.

Anyways, Hakeem is currently off the trading block.  Rockets' owner,
Charlie Thomas, is trying to sell the team.  Last week, the lastest
buy offer fell through after it had already been announced.
There are a few other deals in the works, but all potential owners
have made one thing quite clear --- they will only buy the Rockets
if Hakeem Olajuwon is part of the deal.  Plus, after they purchase the
team, their No. 1 priority is making Hakeem happy.  Thus, look for Hakeem to
remain a Rocket, probably until he retires.

On the other hand, the Rockets are in a major rut.  They've been stuck
as a mediocre team for years, not bad enough to get a good lottery pick,
and not good enough to challenge for a championship.
They desparately need to upgrade their backcourt.  The combination of
Kenny Smith, the Mad Bomber, Vernon Maxwell, and Sleepy Floyd is not
going to get them anywhere.

				terry@garfield.Stanford.EDU
From: beegle@ftp.phy.uab.edu (BadSpeller!)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.basketball.pro
Subject: Re: Armon Gilliam (was Re: 76ers need BIG-time help)
Date: 30 Dec 92 18:34:14 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: University of Alabama at Birmingham

In article <1hq637INN2os@mirror.digex.com> alexj@access.digex.com (Alex Johnson) writes:
>In article <5160@equinox.unr.edu> alan@wrc.unr.edu (Alan McKay) writes:
>>
>>O.K., so what's up with Gilliam? Up until a couple of weeks ago, he was starting,
>>and putting up pretty good numbers; then he dissappeared from the box scores for
>>a game or two, and reappeared as a minor-minute player making almost ~no~
>>contribution. Did he get hurt? Fall out of favor with Moe?
>>
>

Well having just watched the 76ers win 3 of 4 it is refreashing to see they
finally have limited Gilliam's playing time. The only assist I have 
ever seen him get is from Air balls. His lack of D does not help either.

But it is with great uphoria (I had to try to spell this, am I close?)
that I report that the sixers finally have a dominating center. NUTE!!!

15 Rebounds the other night. He actually scored in on of the other games,
and yes he did get an assist! 

Possible trade: Nute for O'Neil. It would free up space under the 
cap for Orlando, since both centers are of equal stature.


I just could not resist!
-- 
Luke

	"I don't feel so good."	
				Last words of Luther Burbank
From: kompella@cs.ucsd.edu (Vachaspathi Kompella)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.basketball.pro
Subject: Re: La Lakers
Date: 23 Dec 92 00:33:26 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: CSE Dept., UC San Diego



In article <1h7on2INNj88@news.aero.org>, robert@aero.org (R. S. Statsinger) writes:
Well, Scott's game benefits from someone who goes to the hole a lot, e.g.,
Kareem or Worthy.  Then all he has to do is pop the outside jumper or
set for the 3pter.  He doesn't need a Magic for that.  John Paxson of the
Bulls also plays the same role.  With the fear of Horace Grant or Michael
Jordan or Scottie Pippen breaking to the hoop, the defense sags towards the
paint, ready for helping out and double teams.  That leaves Paxson wide open.
Paxson is about as one-dimensional as Scott.  If Scott hits the jumpers
as he used to before the hamstring in '89, he will be very useful, but only
if the big men continue to muscle in towards the hoop.

Robert Statsinger's distaste for Scott seems to start from Scott's
presumptuousness at the beginning of his career.  If Scott's role is defined
as above, then I think his contribution has been exactly what was expected of
him.  I doubt if West or Riley saw Scott as Scott saw himself.  I like Scott
for this role, and his numbers this year show a return to the pre-hamstring form.
I, for one, used to cheer his jump shots when the defense was worrying about
Worthy and Kareem, and hope that this year he's going to do the same, with
Randy Pfund trying out all these big man combinations with Vlade, Worthy,
Elden, Edwards and Perkins.

Worthy definitely needs the good crisp passer that Magic needs, but his current
slump is not because of the lack of passes.  He was quite capable of picking
up ~18-20 points solely on his quick moves to the hole, outside 17 footers and
posting up.  He has lost that also.  He's suffering from a major case of
"Back from Surgery" blues.  I am waiting for them to clear up.  I wonder if
his knees hurt him or whether it's purely psychological.  Robert, I'm waiting
for your response.

I like Scott, but he is never going to be an All-Star.  Worthy is one, and
the Lakers need him badly.  Worthy is capable of stepping up his play to
be a defensive force, a fast break weapon, and a tolerable passer whenever
he shoots badly.

On another note, why did the Lakers keep Jack Haley and dump Sean Higgins?
I thought they had enough big men and a forward would have helped.  If Jack
is going to be on the DL for the entire season, what's the use of wasting
a spot on the roster?

-Vach
From: gbennett@frx784.intel.com (gbennett)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.basketball.pro
Subject: Re: Kings go nuts!
Date: 4 Jan 93 00:05:16 GMT
Organization: Intel Corporation

In article <1i7qm9INNklt@usenet.INS.CWRU.Edu> cb338@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Michael A. Woo-Ming) writes:
>
>Hey!  I was looking at the NBA boxscores in between football games and
>I noticed Sacramento has destroyed their last 2 opponents by FIFTY points
>or more in each game!  Granted, the Mavs could be beat by the Washington
>Generals, (esp. w/o Harper playing)  but the Sixers aren't THAT bad.  I also
>noticed Walt Williams had 40 pts yesterday.  With the Kings scoring over 150
>pts per game, is St. Jean running the up and down offense that was run
>with G. State?
>
>Mike (THE closet King fan)
>
>-- 
>*** Mike Woo-Ming, MPH            cb338@cleveland.freenet.edu   ***
> *** WSU School of Medicine          usr9742a@tso.uc.edu       ***
>  *** UCSD, U of M alumni       mwooming@heartland.bradley.edu***
>   *******> "I was STUDYING!! I'm just checking my mail" <******

Actually, Coach St. Jean runs a half-court offense much of the time.  I was at
the Kings/Mavericks game, and a lot of the fast break opportunities came off of
turnovers forced by a vastly improved defense.

I wouldn't be concerned about the Kings making the playoffs just yet (given the
fact that they play in the NBA's toughest division), but with one or two more
lottery picks, who knows?  A solid point guard like Bobby Hurley could be 
enough to get this team into the playoffs.

In retrospect, the Billy Owens/Mitch Richmond trade looks better and better all
of the time (considering all of the trouble Owens gave Sacramento during the
contract negotiations and the trouble he is giving Golden State currently).

-Jerry
From: aminkoff@sdcc13.ucsd.edu (Tony Minkoff)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.basketball.pro
Subject: Re: Phoenix is absolutely scary...
Date: 4 Jan 93 00:36:04 GMT
Organization: University of California, San Diego

In article <1992Dec31.155033.1699@ll.mit.edu>,
nates@ll.mit.edu ( Nate Smith) writes:
>Utah is a good defensive team, but not because the
>opponents scoring average is so low.  its more accurately reflected in
>the opponents feild goal percentage, although that isnt the whole picture
>either.

The best statistical measure of team defense that I can think of is
opponents' points-per-possession.  "Possessions" are not listed in
the boxscores, but can be approximated by (turnovers + field goals
attempted - offensive rebounds + 0.4 * free throws attempted).

(Note that I do not count an offensive rebound as the beginning of a
new possession.  E.g., if a team shoots, misses, gets the offensive
board, shoots again, and makes it, that counts as one possession,
not two.)

Maybe sometime in the next week, if I have time, I will actually
calculate the opponents'-points-per-possession (OPPPPP?) stat for
each team for last year.  (I don't think I have current data
available.  If somebody can provide me with it, I'd be most
appreciative.)

Tony
From: centeno@pasadena-dc.bofa.com (R. CENTENO)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.basketball.pro
Subject: Lakers vs Spurs
Date: 27 Dec 92 07:57:23 PDT
Organization: Bank America Systems Engineering, Pasadena, CA

The next time I hear somebody bad mouth the Lakers, I will refrain from comment.
I only saw the fourth quarter of their game against San Antonio last night.  
James Worthy was pathetic!!!!  If Eldin Campbell played like that he would 
have been yanked!!!  And probably would not see playing time for a while.
Maybe I'm being a little hard on James, but the length of time it is taking
him to get his game on track is realy taking its toll on the team.  I think
that Randy Pfund should consider seriously limiting his playing time.  I
mean he should still start him, but if he comes out in a funk, then bench him.
Maybe this will force him to get mad and play James Worthy basketball again!!!

Anthony Peeler was the ONLY starter to score in the fourth quarter.  That is
pitiful.

I'm sorry for flaming, but for those of you who saw the game (and are Lakers
fans), you know how I feel.

-Rob
Newsgroups: rec.sport.basketball.pro
From: paulg@microsoft.com (Paul Goode)
Subject: Tarkanian
Date: 22 Dec 92 16:24:22 GMT
Organization: Microsoft Corp.
Keywords: Spurs, Tarkanian

Red "The Flakiest Gun in the West" has gone off
again. Nineteen games into the season, he fired
Spurs' coach Jerry Tarkanian in a dispute over
team personnel, presumably eating a 3-yr, $1.5
mil contract in the bargain. Former top draft
pick and NBA point guard John Lucas replaces
Tarkanian, making his debut tonight. Lucas' only
prior coaching experience is with a Global (?)
Basketball league team that included former
player and Lucas client Roy Tarpley.

For most of the season, Tarkanian had been pushing
the Spurs to obtain a true point guard. Finally,
in a letter to Red McCombs, he stated the obvious:
That this team could not compete for an NBA championship
without a legitimate point guard. (As far as I know,
he did not involve the disastrous injuries to Terry
Cummings and Willie Anderson.) McCombs disagreed
with Tarkanian, averring that the team as currently 
constituted was good enough to win it all. That
was pretty much it.

But McCombs' position is inconsistent with his own
actions. The club made a strong effort to obtain
Mookie Blaylock from New Jersey, and have had talks
involving Gary Grant, Negele Knight, Brian Shaw,
and Derek Harper. On the theory that you wouldn't
attempt to trade for a starter unless you really
needed one, it's hard to subscribe to the notion
that Red McCombs thinks that this team is good
enough as is. 

So what else might have happened? The Spurs *were*
off to a slow start, and Tarkanian was having to 
make a number of tactical adjustments to NBA play.
None of this was a surprise though, given the number
of new faces on the club, and there were a number
of hopeful signs. Tarkanian had talked about quitting
at the end of the year; possibly that and the public
disagreement over team makeup instigated the firing
more than the actual content of the dispute. But
that's pure speculation... 

What about the new guy? He's smart and driven, and
whatever else you say, he's not one of the usual
suspects. Lucas was popular during his brief tenure
in San Antonio; and Red McCombs and Bob Bass may have
decided to go with a known quantity. One undisputable
Tarkanian accomplishment was reestablishing a rapport
between coach and team. The Spurs may have decided
that they couldn't give that up, even if getting a 
new coach.

Paul
Newsgroups: rec.sport.basketball.pro
From: jcp29389@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (I Spike - Therefore I Am)
Subject: Re: Jordan's three pointers
Organization: University of Illinois at Urbana
Date: Thu, 24 Dec 1992 21:53:12 GMT

kolli@seas.gwu.edu (Chakravarthy Kolli) writes:


>I watched the Washington Bullets vs the Chicago Bulls last night

>I am amazed at the ease with which Jordan is shooting three pointers

>He had 6 of 8. It's not like Paxson's wide open shots. Either
>Rex Chapman or Doug Overton had a hand on him always.

that's because he is better than paxson.

>During the finals in June, when he had 6(?) three pointers, I thought
>it was just a fluke. After seeing him yesterday, and the ease with
>which he is shooting them, may be it's not a fluke

why would you think it was a fluke????  he is the greatest player in the league
so why is it so surprising that he can hit three-pointers??  he has an awesome
jumper, one he's relied on more than his driving (he drives less and less every
season), so now he just shoots it from a little further out and voila... 3 points.  it doesn't surprise me at all.  he has to do that sometimes because of
all the double teaming when he drives, plus defenders stay off of him to 
protect themselves from being schooled to the hoop, therefore he has semi-open
jumpers that he can hit regularly.  this forces players to defend him more
tightly, allowing him to drive on them.  he is just awesome.

>Yes, all the others were flat and he scored 57. More importantly
>he took Rex Chapman out of the game and it was Rex who was the man for the
>Bullets going into the game

hahaha,  what about harvey grant?  or googoo man?  googoo seems to hit almost
everything he throws up there against the bulls so far this year.

-- 
   _/    _/   _/_/_/		Jay Pardee
  _/    _/     _/		pardee@cs.uiuc.edu	University of Illinois
   _/_/     _/_/_/					 Urbana-Champaign
Newsgroups: rec.sport.basketball.pro
From: oliver@athena.mit.edu (James D. Oliver III)
Subject: Re: Culture comes to USENET (was Re: Jordan & Pippen: No Olympics)
Organization: Massachusetts Institute of Technology
	<OLIVER.92Dec30225918@ballard1.mit.edu>
	<168CD14A51.EIVERSO@cms.cc.wayne.edu>
Date: Thu, 31 Dec 1992 07:04:54 GMT

In article <168CD14A51.EIVERSO@cms.cc.wayne.edu> EIVERSO@cms.cc.wayne.edu wrote:
> In article <OLIVER.92Dec30225918@ballard1.mit.edu>
> oliver@athena.mit.edu (James D. Oliver III) writes:
>>Am now anxiously awaiting the first usage of "bust upside your nappy head"
>>. . .
>  
> Probably will come some time around the first "kiss my muthah f*kin ass,
> muthah f*kah"

Or, "wait right there, I got something for your ass in my bag".

(Note to uninitiates: If you hear somebody say this, do not wait around.
It is not a Christmas gift he is planning to bring you.)

> BTW can someone explain why the Olympics hasn't had such an adverse affect
> on Barkely and his Suns? 

Well, Barkley didn't have the playoffs to deal with, so he got a few weeks
of a break before the Olympics.  I don't think it's coincidence that the
other Olympian who's in bad shape right now is Clyde Drexler.
____________________________
	Jim Oliver  
	oliver@athena.mit.edu /	joliver@hstbme.mit.edu
	oliver%mitwccf.BITNET@MITVMA.MIT.EDU
From: nates@ll.mit.edu ( Nate Smith)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.basketball.pro
Subject: Re: My A to Z list
Date: 23 Dec 92 20:55:01 GMT
Organization: MIT Lincoln Laboratory

In article <23DEC199210194646@lims02.lerc.nasa.gov> afcanav@lims02.lerc.nasa.gov (VIC CANACCI) writes:
>>|> N -- Nance, Larry (Can't think of many N's)
>
>Well, even though you can't think of many N's, you did pretty good.
>Vic Canacci, Sverdrup Tech., NASA Lewis Cleveland

boy, you can say that again.  a class act.

- nate
Newsgroups: rec.sport.basketball.pro
From: markham@brtph597.bnr.ca (Andrew Markham P205)
Subject: Best backcourt (was: Stats on Clippers and others)
Organization: BNR Inc. RTP, NC
Date: Thu, 24 Dec 1992 13:45:30 GMT

Matthew HEASLY writes:
>claird@NeoSoft.com (Cameron Laird) writes:
>
>>Kelly Rust writes:
>>>A few observations as we've rounded the first turn.
>>			.
>>			.
>>			.
>>>BEST BACKCOURT?  I haven't seen them play, but the production
>>>from Mark Jackson and Ron Harper has been outstanding (36ppg,
>>>12rpg,14apg,4.5spg)...compared with, say, Jordan/Armstrong (45ppg,
>>>9rpg,10apg,2.5spg) I'd say it's a toss-up.  Maybe one of our
>>>resident Clipper mavens could offer an opinion...
>
>I don't know.... maybe New Jersey.... with Kenny Anderson and Drazen Petrovic 
>(39.3ppg, 8rpg, 11.7apg, 1.65spg)... well maybe statistically not as good as 
>LAC but better (I think) than Jordan.Armstrong... 

There are a lot of good statistical backcourts out there, but the 
question is, would you REALLY rather have any of those backcourts 
(Jackson/Harper, Anderson/Petrovic, etc..) over the Armstrong/Jordan 
one?  If so, justify your decision for not picking Jordan (oops, 
Armstrong/Jordan).


-- 
Andrew W. Markham (markham@bnr.ca)
Bell Northern Research, Inc.
Newsgroups: rec.sport.basketball.pro
From: jscott@micom.com (James Scott)
Subject: kukoc wars?
Organization: Micom Communications Corp., Simi Valley, Ca.
Distribution: rec.sport.basketball.pro
Date: Mon, 21 Dec 1992 18:27:14 GMT

raczka@HQ.Ileaf.COM (christopher raczka) writes:

> jerry krause - "personally?  i want to win one without michael
                  jordan.  i want to win a championship without
                  michael."


mr krause was last seen running naked down michigan avenue screaming
something about space aliens invading the white house. 

geez ... get a clue.

james

Newsgroups: rec.sport.basketball.pro
From: lewism@jmb2.jmb.com (Mike Lewis)
Subject: Re: Shaq vs. Wilt
Organization: JMB Realty Corporation
X-Newsreader: Tin 1.1 PL5
Distribution: usa
Date: Tue, 29 Dec 1992 21:06:58 GMT

Bob Dorin (dorin@ksr.com) wrote:
: In article <1992Dec15.005131.2847@jmb2.jmb.com> lewism@jmb2.jmb.com (Mike Lewis) writes:
: >teams might have won several NBA titles.  His teams lost to Boston in the
: >playoffs just about every year, except for 1967 (the only year during that
: >stretch in which Boston *didn't* win, by the way).
: 
: 
: Just decided to check just how often Wilt faced Boston in the
: playoffs.
: 1960 (Wilt is a rookie for Philly Warriors)      Boston in 6
                  ^^^^^^                           ^^^^^^^^^^^
: 1961 (Philly eliminated in first round sweep)    Syracuse in 3 straight
: 1962 (Eastern finals; Wilt season averaged 50.4) Boston in 7
                                                   ^^^^^^^^^^^
: 1963 (Warriors in San Fran, i.e. Western Div)    fail to make playoffs
: 1964 (Wilt faces Russell in NBA finals)          Boston in 5
: 1965 (Wilt traded to 76ers in mid-season)        Boston in 7
             ^^^^^^             ^^^^^^^^^^         ^^^^^^^^^^^
: 1966 (2nd of 4 consecutive Eastern finals)       Boston in 5
: 1967 (Title for Wilt!!)                          Philly in 5
: 1968 (Boston 8 games behind Philly in East but)  Boston in 7
                                                   ^^^^^^^^^^^
: 1969 (Wilt in LA; balloon game 7 in NBA finals)  Boston in 7
                                                   ^^^^^^^^^^^
: 1970 (Wilt loses to NY in NBA finals, never faces Boston again in
:       playoffs)
: 
: I guess this is one of those cases where time has not caused an
: exaggeration - Wilt was in fact dominated by Russell in playoffs.
: 

I guess since Magic's Lakers beat Bird's Celtics 2 out of 3 finals, that means
that Magic "dominated" Bird in the playoffs.

One name I haven't heard mentioned in any of this discussion is an obvious one:

RED AUERBACH!!!!!!!

Without a doubt the greatest coach of all time.  Who was coaching Wilt during
all of these years?  You don't remember?  Here's a few names:

Dolph Schayes (thought Wilt could really benefit from learning his crappy 50's
hook shot...if there was one thing Wilt didn't need, it was other ways to score)
Butch Van Breda Koff (or whatever, he really sucked)
other assorted slug coaches with Philly - especially in the early years
Alex Hannum (coached the '67 team, not that bad but what did he do after that?)
Bill Sharman (coached the '72 team)

Many of Wilt's game 7 woes against Boston can be attributed to the miserable
coaching of his teams (with exceptions noted above).  I would say that Wilt's
teams did better against Boston than any other of the era, and this in spite
of inferior personnel and coaching overall.
Newsgroups: rec.sport.basketball.pro