HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: sahmed@occs.cs.oberlin.edu (Saif Ahmed)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.bangladesh
Subject: Re: Bangladesh: Child Labor
Date: 24 Jan 93 18:31:47 GMT
Article-I.D.: occs.SAHMED.93Jan24133147
	<C1D7Lr.BEL@mentor.cc.purdue.edu>
Organization: Oberlin College Computer Science
X-Posted-From: occs.cs.oberlin.edu
NNTP-Posting-Host: sol.ctr.columbia.edu

In article <C1D7Lr.BEL@mentor.cc.purdue.edu> rafatm@sage.cc.purdue.edu (unknown) writes:
>   I think this is the best solution proposed so far. By requiring employers
>to look after the long term welfare of their child employees we would be
>solving the problem the best way our meager resources permit. The only problem
>would be enforcing such legislation.

Well child labor is not only employed in industry, there is also a
considerable amount of child labor in households. Households with a
small number of child employees are probably in a better position to
look after their welfare. Of course that's not happenning on a large
scale. And neither is it being discussed by the West, East or any
other region of the world because that is not in any way affecting the
business and industry of the West.

As you said above enforcing the legislation would be almost
impossible. None of our present laws are enforced what would make
anyone think a child labour law would be. We do have a number of
labour laws. We have laws determining the longest allowed workday. We
have laws providing for breaks between long shifts. We have workers
compensation laws for accidents. None of those are enforced.

Saif


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| | Saifuddin Ahmed                                                        |
| | sahmed@occs.cs.oberlin.edu                                             |
| |________________________________________________________________________/
\_/
From: imc7142@zeus.tamu.edu (CHOUDHURY, IFTEKHARUDDIN MOHAMM)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.bangladesh,soc.culture.pakistan,soc.culture.indian
Subject: Re: In Seething India, Village Peaceful
Date: 21 Jan 1993 10:03 CST
Organization: Texas A&M University, Academic Computing Services
Distribution: usa
NNTP-Posting-Host: zeus.tamu.edu
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41    

In article <C16Fp0.D3@mentor.cc.purdue.edu>, Rafat Sadiq writes...
>In article <73974@cup.portal.com>, hassan@cup.portal.com (hassan monu alam) writes:
>> Roshangarh Journal
>> 
>> In Seething India, Village Is Peaceful. 
>> 
>> ---------------------------------------------------------- 
>> ROSHANGARH, India--Sabir Ali combed his cream-white beard with  
>> [stuff deleted]"I'll plow fields for Hindus this year, just like every year."
   [stuff deleted] 
>> Mr. Kumar concluded: "There are no specific problems really. Village 
>> life goes on." 
> 
>    Perhaps these ignorant and illeterate people can teach us a thing or
>two.
>Rafat

I would hate to term these people as "ignorant and illiterate". They
probably belong to the oral culture of our society and, in a way, are
more enlightened than most of the so-called elites.

Fundamentalism does not exist at the grass-roots level. It is usually
the establishment that uses religion as a tool for exploitation and
to strengthen its otherwise weak base.

Iftekhar Choudhury
Texas A & M University
From: milind@agni.cc.nd.edu (Milind Saraph)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.bangladesh
Subject: Evolution
Date: 25 Jan 93 19:27:25 GMT
Article-I.D.: news.1993Jan25.192725.23190
Reply-To: milind@agni.cc.nd.edu (Milind Saraph)
Followup-To: soc.culture.bangladesh
Organization: Univ. of Notre Dame

As some may recall, during a discussion on Islam and Science I was
trying to understand Shakil's position on evolution.  He started by
saying that the Quran implies evolution although not in "Darwinist"
sense.  After talking past each other, the discussion ended when he
said that in his opinion, there is no inconsistency between the Quran 
and evolution.  

I expected Shakil to come up with some references which can be
considered "anti-evolutionist"; one of the recent additions being
"Darwin on Trial" by Phillip Johnson, a lawyer from University of
California, Berkeley.  Stephen Gould (of Harvard) reviewed this
book and criticized it severely.  Editors of the maganzine where
the review appeared declined to publish Johnson's response.  
Johnson posted this response and a transcript of one of his lectures
on the group talk.origins.  I have saved a copy of both the posts.
I anyone is interested, I can email copies of these posts.

-- Milind Saraph
Newsgroups: soc.culture.bangladesh,soc.culture.pakistan,soc.culture.indian
From: 004445k@axe.acadiau.ca (FAISAL KHARADI)
Subject: re: sher time
Organization: Acadia University
Date: Sun, 24 Jan 1993 23:54:26 GMT

In article <1993Jan21.143824.2730@cbnews.cb.att.com> izaz@cbnews.cb.att.com (sheikh.izazul.haque) writes:
>From: izaz@cbnews.cb.att.com (sheikh.izazul.haque)
>Subject: Re: In Seething India, Village Peaceful
>Date: Thu, 21 Jan 1993 14:38:24 GMT

>>     Perhaps these ignorant and illeterate people can teach us a thing or
>> two.
>> Rafat


>That sounds pretty elitist. By the way, its not "illeterate", but "illiterate".

>izaz


"""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""
"""""" 

    ga a dinoN ka surag lay kar 
    kidher say aya kidhar ga ya wo
    ajeeb manos sa ajnabee tha
    mujhae to heraN kar gaya wo
From: sahmed@occs.cs.oberlin.edu (Saif Ahmed)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.bangladesh
Subject: Re: Bangladesh: Child Labor (from soc.right
Date: 24 Jan 93 18:20:27 GMT
Article-I.D.: occs.SAHMED.93Jan24132027
	<1993Jan23.170744.26920@news.clarkson.edu>
	<1jsjh5INNjue@CURIE.SYSTEMSY.CS.YALE.EDU>
Organization: Oberlin College Computer Science
X-Posted-From: occs.cs.oberlin.edu
NNTP-Posting-Host: sol.ctr.columbia.edu

In article <1jsjh5INNjue@CURIE.SYSTEMSY.CS.YALE.EDU> ahmed-shakil@cs.yale.edu (Shakil Ahmed) writes:
>In article <1993Jan23.170744.26920@news.clarkson.edu>, haque@sunray.ece.clarkson.edu (Anisul Haque,,,) writes:

>> Also they have more leverage thru the unions. At the same time as
>> you have mentioned, we should also keep in mind the oversupply of
>> labor

>The severe oversupply of labor in a market sector where not too much
>skill is required, is precisely why the unions would be unlikely to
>achieve anything significant.

Unless they are unions like those in the Government jute operations,
capable of a considerable amount of violence.

Saif
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\_/ 									   |
| | Saifuddin Ahmed                                                        |
| | sahmed@occs.cs.oberlin.edu                                             |
| |________________________________________________________________________/
\_/
Newsgroups: soc.culture.bangladesh
From: rafatm@sage.cc.purdue.edu (unknown)
Subject: Re: Bangladesh: Child Labor
Organization: Purdue University
Date: Sun, 24 Jan 1993 22:35:04 GMT

In article <1993Jan24.200326.16570@sol.cs.wmich.edu>, hossain@sol.cs.wmich.edu (Moazzem) writes:
> In article <1993Jan23.204010.29104@vela.acs.oakland.edu> mkaziz@vela.acs.oakland.edu (KHALED AZIZ) writes:
> If I understood correctly, you are implying, since those people will be 
> jobless any way even after proper education, there is no need to send them 
> to school. In my opinion, that is wrong for our society. (By the way, is that
> the reason that the government is spending so little money in education?)
> 
   The  Bangladesh government is spending a considerable amount of money on 
education. In fiscal 1992, education was one of the largest areas of expen-
diture (perhaps someone with concrete stats. can enlighten us). I think what
he was trying to say (correct me if I`m wrong) is that if it is unreasonable
to expect the govt. to educate all of these children given our overburdened
resources. This viewpoint is debatable. It would be better if the govt. decided
to mandate a bill requiring employers to do so. 

Rafat Sadiq
From: f43703a@nucc.cc.nagoya-u.ac.jp (SUPRATIC GUPTA)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.bangladesh
Subject: Re: Existence of God
Date: 26 Jan 93 04:57:25 GMT
Organization: Nagoya University Computation Center, Nagoya, Japan.

In article <1k19hrINNees@tamsun.tamu.edu> nns3321@tamuts.tamu.edu (Nripendra Nath Sarker) writes:

 |
 |Atheist n: one who denies the existence of God.
 |Syn: Atheist,Agnostic,Deist,Freethinker,,Unbeliever,Infidel.Shared meaning
 |element: One who does not take an orthodox religious position.
 |
 |The person x(j) is an UNBELIEVER to the eyes of all x(i), where
 |i is not equal to j.
 |
 |A person y(j) asks why God need to prescribe something for a section
 |of people and create enimity with the others. y(j) is termed as an
 |unbeliever or an aetheist.
 |
 |y(j) finds no reason to be feared of God. God is not a human being that 
 |He acts and reacts in the way we do. Who really knows all about His 
 |Philiosophy or what ?
 |
 |How can one flatly label that y(j) should be a bad guy ? 
 |
 |This y(j) people and some other from x(i) who have 
 |some strength of y(j) character are the ones who help keep balance
 |in the midst of disarrays developed in the world.
 |
 |
 |I am not afraid of God. Becasue God never troubles me. But I am 
 |careful about human being.


A very nice letter. I am very simillar to that y(j). I will concentrate
on Islam as this in on SCB. I go to the extent to say that what is the
necessity to state if Mohamad is a prophet or not,*** once we had accepted
what Mohamad conveyed to us. How we accept is a different question. The
funniest part is that Just not comenting on prophet hood of Mohamad, (
that is different from Saying Mohamad is not a Prophet) still praying 5
times a day and following all traditions will still not make a Y(j)  a
muslim.  I find it funny.

Sorry that this topic was beaten to dust long back. I just wanted felt
that this goes perfectly with the topic.

I may not reply to any flames on the article.

*** To christians : what is the necessesity to say if Jesus was a son
of god or not , if he died on the cross or not, once we accept all he
wanted to convey to us? Why fight on silly topics like this. Isn't being a
good person enough?

--
With regards
 
SUPRATIC GUPTA
Newsgroups: soc.culture.bangladesh
From: hassan@bcrka434.bnr.ca (Abu Hassan)
Subject: bangla magazine
Originator: hassan@bcrka434
Organization: Bell-Northern Research, Ottawa, Canada
Distribution: na
Date: Fri, 22 Jan 1993 21:17:36 GMT



	                January 1993 issue of
			----------------------

			THE MONTHLY BANGLADESH
			======================

		FIRST BANGLA MONTHLY FROM NORTH AMERICA
		=======================================

Bangladesh Publications has been publishing a regular bangla monthly
entitled "the monthly BANGLADESH' since December 1990. Over the last
one year of its existence, the monthly has improved its quality
in terms of both appearance and content. The monthly is composed in
computer using bangla wordprocessor. The publication contains news
from Bangladesh on every topic of interest starting from politics
to day to day life, government affairs, student affairs, cultural 
activities, sports and what not. The publication is very serious 
in encouraging local (north american) bangalees to write about 
various issues pertinent to us in this society. The project is
completely non-profit and oriented towards "glueing" together the 
scattered bangalee community in north america. 
                                                       

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
January 1993 issue of "the monthly BANGLADESH" includes among other things



++ Three articles related to recent Babri Mosque incident and its
   effect on Bangladesh

++ Interview with Mrs. Jahanara Imam

++ Bangladesh in 1992 - a year in perspective

++ An article on folklore of Bangladesh - Aminur Rashid Pintu

++ Second part of a three part series on International 
   trade trend and Bangladesh -- Dr. Mamudul Anam

++ Sports

++ Poems                                                         

++ Report on community activities  

++ Two short stories

++ Regular columns on NEWS, Cultural Activities, Sports etc.

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

If anyone is interested to subscribe this monthly, please send 
your mailing address along with your subscription.
Plese remember that, it is only through your patronization, 
encouragement and constructive criticism that a monthly can 
survive in a small community like ours. SO PLEASE ACT TODAY !!

Subscription rate :
------------------
6 months : $10.00
12 months : $20.00


Mailing Address :
================
BANGLADESH PUBLICATIONS
601-230 Woodridge Crescent
Nepean (Ottawa), Ontario
K2B 8G2
CANADA

Ph : (613) 828-2290

*****************************************************************************
* Abu S. Mahmudul Hassan    Bitnet : hassan@bnr.ca                          *
* DFT Group                 UUCP : .. uunet!bnrgate!bcrka434!hassan         *
* Bell Northern Research    Ph : (613) 763-2324                             *
* Ottawa, CANADA            AMAR SONAR BANGLA AMI TOMAI BHALOBASHI          *
*****************************************************************************
From: sahmed@occs.cs.oberlin.edu (Saif Ahmed)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.bangladesh
Subject: Re: The Black Hole of Calcutta ?
Date: 23 Jan 93 19:55:45 GMT
Organization: Oberlin College Computer Science
X-Posted-From: occs.cs.oberlin.edu
NNTP-Posting-Host: sol.ctr.columbia.edu

In article <1js61rINN4ta@MINERVA.CIS.YALE.EDU> mahmud-mehdi@yale.edu (Mehdi Asif Mahmud) writes:

	   Does anyone know what "The Black Hole of Calcutta" is/was (will be?)
   a reference to? Care to enlighten me, please? 

It is an room or dungeon if you will in which Nawab Siraj-ud Dowla
imprisoned a large number of Europeans including women and children
most of whom suffocated to death.

Saif
--
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/ \  							                   |
\_/ 									   |
| | Saifuddin Ahmed                                                        |
| | sahmed@occs.cs.oberlin.edu                                             |
| |________________________________________________________________________/
\_/
Newsgroups: soc.culture.bangladesh
From: raza@ee.umr.edu (Md Ishfaqur Raza)
Subject: Re: Bangladesh: Child Labor 
Date: Sun, 24 Jan 1993 01:13:04 GMT
Organization: University of Missouri - Rolla

In article <1993Jan23.204010.29104@vela.acs.oakland.edu> mkaziz@vela.acs.oakland.edu (KHALED AZIZ) writes:
>If child labor is prohibited by law, what alternatives will be open
>before these children?  

Just the point I wanted to make . It is very easy for the west or well off
section of the present day world to set up standards but it is on us to 
figure out if that solution is applicable to our society. 

>I agree if these children are replaced by adults,
>society will be better off in general (at least in the short run). But
>I don't think roaming around in streets and leading a carefree life will make
>their existence more meaningful. 

When a hungry person does not have any food it is very unwise to advice that
person from eating high cholesterol and fatty food, when that person cannot be
provided any alternative food.

>Our schools are already overloaded and
>the way our economy is moving, it would be extremely difficult to
>build new schools.  Even if they receive proper schooling, how helpful will
>it be for them in the long run?  It will cause a substantial increase in the
>number of educated jobless. i

The best we could do as conscious citizens and symthetizers of these children
is make sure that the industries provide some sort of education to these
minors and even adults. It ain't that cost extravagant and would be much
better than having them throwed out into the streets. If the Public opinion
was supportive the industries could be forced to do these sort of programmes;
these are not euphoric.


>Considering our socio-economic structure, it is only realistic to put more
>emphasis on vocational trainings.  If these children can get some hand-on
>experience and acquire some skills while making money, I wouldn't think there
>is anything wrong with it (as long as their job doesn't require too much

TRUE
>
>     KHALED AZIZ 

We should be able to differentiate what is good for us. Without any doubt the
west had their share of child labourers in the day of slavery, which was of
the extremest in nature, brutal and inhuman. Now it is possible for them
to come out and set standards. We on the other hand, I do not think exercised
or do exercise such inhuman activities.If so let the proper action be taken
but not the annahilation of the whole system of employment and economic
relief. 


Md IShfaqur Raza 

Newsgroups: soc.culture.bangladesh
From: haque@sunray.ece.clarkson.edu (Anisul Haque,,,)
Subject: Re: Bangladesh: Child Labor (from soc.right
Reply-To: haque@sunray.ece.clarkson.edu
Organization: Sun Microsystems, Inc.
Date: Sat, 23 Jan 1993 17:07:44 GMT

In article 93Jan23122335@occs.cs.oberlin.edu, zeeshan@occs.cs.oberlin.edu (Zeeshan Hasan) writes:

> 	I can't say I agree with a lot of what you say about adult
                                               ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
> garments workers being "underpaid".  It is true that their wages are
  ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
> very low, but that does not mean that they are being shortchanged - it
> only means that their labour is oversupplied and thus practically
> useless.  It is probably not true that the firing of child labourers
> will result in any substantial increase in wages for the adult
> workers, simply because at present there are huge numbers of
> unemployed adults who are likely to perpetuate the oversupply of
> labour even with the removal of currently employed minors.  So I will
> retain my opinion...

My point was that while doing identical works, a child is paid less than 
his/her adult counterpart. I didn't make any comment whether an adult worker 
is underpaid or not in the real sense. 

Now let's extend my argument. Suppose, there are Z # of jobs in the garment 
industry of which X belongs to the children. If X # of adults replace these 
children, as a whole the total income of the garment workers community will 
increase since an adult will probably earn more than a child. Also they have 
more leverage thru the unions. At the same time as you have mentioned, we should 
also keep in mind the oversupply of labor, but this problem becomes only worse 
when children with their lower wages are allowed to compete. This reform will 
no doubt redistribute the income distribution (for example, in a family where 
both adults and their children were working in the garment industry, only the 
adults will be the earning members), but it will include more adults (who 
previously were doing nothing) in the working community. That will increase the 
income of the community in a global aspect. This, in my opinion, is a plus.

> farewell,
> zeeshan

Regards,

Anisul Haque
Clarkson University
From: mahmud-mehdi@yale.edu (Mehdi Asif Mahmud)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.bangladesh
Subject: The Black Hole of Calcutta ?
Date: 23 Jan 1993 14:24:43 -0500
Organization: Yale College
Distribution: world
NNTP-Posting-Host: minerva.cis.yale.edu
Summary: Inquiry


	Does anyone know what "The Black Hole of Calcutta" is/was (will be?)
a reference to? Care to enlighten me, please? 

	Asif

-- 
~mahmud@cs.yale.edu		Strategic thinking is the art of outdoing
~Mehdi Mahmud			an adversary always remembering that he is
~P.O. Box 688 Yale Station	trying to do the same to you.
~New Haven, CT 06520.		   - Dixit & Nalebuff (Strategic Thinking)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.bangladesh
From: akgoel@plg.waterloo.edu (anil k goel)
Subject: Re: Secular, Muslim Brotherhood and Changes
Organization: University of Waterloo
Date: Wed, 27 Jan 1993 15:39:19 GMT

   Durgapuja and Kalipuja are national holidays. In reverence
   to the Christian minority, Bara Din (Christmas) is also a holiday.
   In an Islamic state, such actions are still possible. 


Hmm... no, I don't see how it is possible for an Islamic state to declare
Durgapuja or Kalipuja as a national holiday. Remember, "there is no God, but
Allah".

-anil
Newsgroups: soc.culture.bangladesh
From: sahmed@occs.cs.oberlin.edu (Saif Ahmed)
Subject: EC: DOUBLE CHECKING ON CERTAIN TEXTILE IMPORTS 
Organization: Oberlin College Computer Science
Date: Mon, 25 Jan 1993 19:08:07 GMT
X-Posted-From: occs.cs.oberlin.edu
NNTP-Posting-Host: sol.ctr.columbia.edu

    BRUSSELS, 21/01/1993 (AGENCE EUROPE) - By means of a European
Commission regulation, the EC has introduced a double checking system
for monitoring certain textile products originating in Bangladesh,
having noted that "there is sufficient evidence to believe that large
scale fraud and circumvention is taking place of the provisions of the
agreement with Bangladesh especially as regards the determination of
origin of textile products."

    The introduction of a double checking system (by the exporter
country and the Community) was negotiated with Bangladesh authorities
and was initialled in the form of an Exchange of Letters. The products
covered are those falling under categories 4 (shirts, T-shirts,
undervests and the like), 6 (breeches and shorts) and 8 (shirts, other
than knitted or crocheted, of wool, cotton or man-made fibres). The
system entered into force at the start of the year.
--
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/ \  							                   |
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| | Saifuddin Ahmed                                                        |
| | sahmed@occs.cs.oberlin.edu                                             |
| |________________________________________________________________________/
\_/
From: haque@sunspot.ece.clarkson.edu (Anisul Haque,,,)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.bangladesh
Subject: Re: Bangladesh: Child Labor (from soc.right
Date: 22 Jan 93 16:58:18 GMT
Reply-To: haque@sunspot.ece.clarkson.edu
Organization: Sun Microsystems, Inc.

In article 23552@umr.edu, raza@ee.umr.edu (Md Ishfaqur Raza) writes:

> Without the alternative to the present problems it is very unfair and unwise
> of the industry to take such a publicity motivated move which is definitely
> done to please or adhere to the set of standards set by aliens. Bangladesh like
> most third world countries has not yet been able to cope with the immense 
> responsibility of providing a decent life nor education to these children.  
> Instead of throwing the children out on to the street ( where only filth of 
> the bosti and the negative social trends awaits them) it would definitely
> be much better for the so called international organizations to work for better
> wages for the parents, better markets, and better environment for the workers 
> asZeeshan bhai has suggested.

I don't think that throwing the children back to the street is worse than making 
them work as long as their parents get the jobs. At least they are care free in 
the streets. If the garments industries are forced to give the children up, no 
net jobs will be lost. These positions will be re given to adults who also happen 
to be parents. 

> Md Ishfaqur Raza


Regards,

Anisul Haque
Clarkson University