HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: langer@aero.org (John V. Langer)
Subject: Re: RFD: comp.graphics.gnuplot
Organization: The Aerospace Corporation, El Segundo, CA
Date: Sun, 16 Aug 1992 08:06:56 GMT

In article <1992Aug15.065935.28308@chinacat.unicom.com> chip@chinacat.unicom.com (Chip Rosenthal) writes:
>
>Too bad you weren't serious, because `comp.apps.graphics.gnuplot' is
>the correct name for the group.

Oh come on!  Next you will want to have comp.lang.c become comp.apps.lang.c
and comp.text.tex become comp.apps.text.tex and comp.text.interleaf become
comp.apps.text.interleaf and ...

The purpose of newsgroups is not to make all exchanged information conform
to somebody or other's perfect system of concept catagorization.  It is to
facilitate the meeting and dialogue of like minds.  The kind of people who
whould become comp.graphics.gnuplot readers are currently reading comp.graphics
and "grasping at threads" that give hints of the sort of discussion they want.
Comp.graphics.gnuplot would put that discussion where they are likely to find
it.  Folks who want to read comp.graphics without fussing with all that gnuplot
stuff don't need to read comp.graphics.gnuplot, since comp.graphics will still
be there, essentially unchanged.

                           -- John

-- 
===============================================================================
| langer@aerospace.aero.org  |  jvl@mickey.aero.org  |  langer@130.221.192.10 |
===============================================================================
From: demon@desire.wright.edu (Stupendous Man)
Newsgroups: news.groups
Subject: Re: changing a newsgroup's moderator
Date: 14 Aug 92 15:34:22 GMT
Organization: Demonic Possesions, Inc.

In article <JAAPJL.92Aug13131104@cmb00.larc.nasa.gov>, jaapjl@tab00.larc.nasa.gov (J Lee Jaap) writes:
> 	<CKD.92Aug11195013@loiosh.eff.org>
> 	<1992Aug12.163402.3406@desire.wright.edu>
> Date: Thu, 13 Aug 1992 17:11:19 GMT
> Lines: 36
> 
> In article <1992Aug12.163402.3406@desire.wright.edu> demon@desire.wright.edu (Stupendous Man) writes:
> 
> 	   Once again we come down to the question, what is wrong with using the
>    current RFD/CFV process?
> 
> 	   Debunking some red herrings:
> 
> 	   1) The poor moderator doesn't know what's going on.
> 
> 		   Phooey!  RFDs should be posted to the group in question.  It is
>    the job of the moderator to read incoming messages.  Even if they are cowardly
>    enough not to post the RFD, they will still have read it.  If they have
>    abandoned their post, then they deserve to be voted out.
> 
> A post to more than one moderated group needs only one Approved: line.
> So if Dave approves it, it won't go to Evan's mailbox.

	And?  So Dave approves it for news.announce.newusers, and a separate
post is sent to the group in question.

> 	   3) Spaf/Dave/God will reject it.
> 
> 		   Yeah, right.  Don't put words in their mouth.
> 
> Dave has rejected the RFD.

	He rejected it because he had doubts about the process.  If the process
is shown to be adequate, what proof do you have that he would reject future
RFDs?
	Like I said, don't put words in their mouths.

> 	   4) Sysadmins will reject it because it's never been done.
> 
> 		   Grasping a little, aren't we?
> 
> Some will reject it because Dave has rejected it.

	Red herring.  See above.

> 	   Any other will-o-wisps that need to be dispelled?
> 
> Any other net.misconceptions to be dispelled?

	Ah, geeze.  I had such a good line, then I see the retraction.  Sigh.

Brett                                                      
_______________________________________________________________________________
Proconsul Computer Consulting                                        CHA-CHING!
Better, Cheaper, Faster					       (Pick any two :)
Disclaimer:								   NOT!
Newsgroups: news.groups
Subject: Re: changing a newsgroup's moderator
From: demon@desire.wright.edu (Stupendous Man)
Date: 12 Aug 92 16:25:14 EST
Organization: Demonic Possesions, Inc.

In article <1992Aug11.233715.25552@athena.mit.edu>, jik@athena.mit.edu (Jonathan I. Kamens) writes:
> In article <1992Aug11.161947.1593@falcon.aamrl.wpafb.af.mil>, bkottmann@falcon.aamrl.wpafb.af.mil (Brett Kottmann) writes:
> |> 	RFDs that fail cannot be re-instituted for six months.  Hardly
> |> "constant harassment".
> 
> Not.
> 
> From the most recently posted guidelines:
> 
> 5) A proposal which has failed under point (3) above should not again be
>    brought up for discussion until at least six months have passed from the
>    close of the vote.  This limitation does not apply to proposals which never
>                        -------------------------------------------------------
>    went to vote.
>    -------------
> 
> It would help if you read and understood the guidelines before talking about
> them publicly.

	Stop being an asshole, Jonathan.  You know as well as I do that when
someone tries to do another RFD before the six months is up that a majority of
the readers say "we just did that, forget it" and it never happens.

	I expected someone who is a moderator to do their best to defeat the
installation of a moderator removal process, but try not to be too blatent
about it.

	The truth is you have no valid reason to reject the RFD/CFV process for
removing moderators.

Brett                                                      
_______________________________________________________________________________
Proconsul Computer Consulting                                        CHA-CHING!
Better, Cheaper, Faster					       (Pick any two :)
Disclaimer:								   NOT!
From: rovero@oc.nps.navy.mil (Josh Rovero)
Newsgroups: news.groups
Subject: Re: RFD: comp.graphics.gnuplot
Date: 12 Aug 92 18:33:17 GMT
Organization: Naval Postgraduate School, Monterey CA

I see between 6 and 10 messages daily through the info-gnuplot list,
and am in favor of establishing a newsgroup *and* maintaining lists
for BITNET and other not-full-Internet systems.

-- 
Josh Rovero   (rovero@oc.nps.navy.mil) | or Internet 5346p@cc.nps.navy.mil 
Department of Oceanography, Code OC/Rv |      Bitnet 5346p@NAVPGS 
Naval Postgraduate School              |              
Monterey, CA  93943   (408) 646-2084   |
Newsgroups: news.groups,rec.motorcycles,rec.motorcycles.racing,rec.motorcycles.dirt,alt.motorcycles.harley
From: cyberoid@milton.u.washington.edu (Robert Jacobson)
Newsgroups: news.groups
Subject: Re: RFD: sci.aeronautics.airliners
Date: 20 Aug 92 16:46:01 GMT
Organization: WORLDESIGN, Seattle


I applaud the motion to create sci.aeronautics.airliners

The design and construction of aircraft is not a recreational activity,
nor are the results -- products to sell on the market -- an object of
leisure activity.  I can understand how aeronautics could get too broad
to service the unique field of passenger aircraft.

Bob Jacobson
From: gwh@soda.berkeley.edu (George William Herbert)
Newsgroups: news.groups
Subject: Re: guidelines for moderator replacement
Date: 15 Aug 1992 08:53:13 GMT
Organization: Dis-
NNTP-Posting-Host: soda.berkeley.edu

In article <1992Aug14.105137.3462@desire.wright.edu> demon@desire.wright.edu (Stupendous Man) writes:
>	For those of you who are totally confused, George was going to run a
>straw poll similar to mine, but canceled it due to administrative reasons and
>because the moderator for rec.arts.erotica found a replacement.

	For those of you who are now totally confused by Demon 8-)....

	My straw poll, which is indeed now cancelled, was soley to
determine the satisfaction or dissatisfaction with the (now ex)
moderator of rec.arts.erotica.  It had no content whatsoever to do
with the current discussion about moderator replacement guidelines.

	I cancelled it because Evan stepped aside in favor of Tim,
not because of any administrative reasons.  It became a moot point,
so I cancelled it.  (People are still sending me votes, though 8-)

	Now that that's clear (I think 8-), we return you to your
normal daily news.groups flamewars now in progress.  Returning tomorrow,
Sri Lanka catches fire as the harley riders torch the
countryside running over now-multiplied bicyclists...

	Have a Nice Day.

-george william herbert
gwh@soda.berkeley.edu  gwh@lurnix.com  herbert@uchu.isu92.ac.jp until 28 aug

Newsgroups: news.groups
From: langer@aero.org (John V. Langer)
Subject: .apps. --> . (was Re: RFD: comp.graphics.gnuplot)
Organization: The Aerospace Corporation, El Segundo, CA
Date: Sun, 23 Aug 1992 08:22:29 GMT

The only real discussion associated with creating a USENET news group
for those interested in the Gnuplot plotting package has concerned
the name of the group.  For some reason, rather than call it
comp.graphics.gnuplot, which would place it alongside comp.graphics.avs
and comp.graphics.explorer -- other groups associated with specific
graphical applications -- some folks have expressed strong feelings
that it should be called comp.apps.gnuplot or even comp.apps.graphics.gnuplot,
placing it a sub-hierarchy that currently contains only comp.apps.spreadsheets 
-- a group with no real connection to Gnuplot except that both the specific 
Gnuplot system and "spreadsheets" are "computer applications".

In trying to understand the guiding intuition that would lead someone to
propose a name that -- from my frame of reference -- seems so unnatural,
I reviewed my .newsrc file and considered whether each given comp.* group
could appropriately be placed in the comp.apps.* sub-hierarchy instead.
Not surprisingly, at least 50% of the groups could easily be construed
to discuss "computer applications" of some sort or other.  

In fact, after reading some of the articles in comp.apps.spreadsheets, I 
didn't see any reason why the news group was not called comp.spreadsheets,
thus being in the same spirit as comp.bbs, comp.databases, comp.infosystems,
comp.windows or even comp.os!  

So now I've gone completely the wrong way.  I tried to figure out why
a group about Gnuplot should be buried in the relative obscurity of
comp.apps.* and instead find myself questioning what such a nice group
as comp.apps.spreadsheets is doing in a place like that.  Is it the
confinement to the comp.apps.* namespace ghetto that keeps 
comp.apps.spreadsheets so baren while comp.databases has five 
comp.databases.* "child" groups?

Any thoughts?

                                -- John
-- 
===============================================================================
| langer@aerospace.aero.org  |  jvl@mickey.aero.org  |  langer@130.221.192.10 |
===============================================================================
Newsgroups: news.groups
From: steve@bucolix.ncsu.edu (Steve Garnier)
Subject: Re: rec.motorcycles.harley vote acknowledgment
Summary: Blow it out you Ass, Chuck!
Reply-To: steve@bucolix.ece.ncsu.edu (Steve Garnier)
Organization: North Carolina State University
Date: Fri, 21 Aug 1992 16:52:38 GMT

In article <1992Aug21.161445.4009@morrow.stanford.edu>
karish@pangea.Stanford.EDU (Chuck Karish) writes:
>In article <1992Aug20.162646.600@ncsu.edu> steve@bucolix.ece.ncsu.edu
>(Steve Garnier) writes:
>>To me, "suspicion" is nothing compared to "accusation".  My biggest
>>problem on this thread is that the net.community appears to read what 
>>I'd define as "accusation" when I write what I'd define as "suspicion".
>My biggest problem on this thread is that Steve Garnier's
>pathological need to justify himself has totally eclipsed
>any sense of proportion.

>>If you don't suspect something, then why bother to ever investigate?
>If you do suspect something and investigate it, and your
>investigation shows that there's no chance that correcting
>detectable error and fraud can have any bearing on the
>outcome, why do you continue to belabor the issue?
>
>Personal note to Steve:  The preceding sentence was a
>RHETORICAL QUESTION.  I know that you do it because you
>can't help yourself.  I don't need an answer.

Chuck, it's well known that a pathological know-it-all such as yourself
doesn't need an answer, because such arrogant individuals are consider
themselves to be omniscient.

I've been attempting to develop some corrective action to preclude recurrence
of some of the vote-BOO-BOOs.  Read article <1992Aug21.135011.8792@ncsu.edu>
in news.groups where I propose this corrective action.

Personal note to Chuck:  You also DON'T NEED AN ANSWER because you've never
had enough intellect to develop the correct question. 

Steve Garnier - DoD #00000005 - '79 XS1100SF w/ 157K+ miles and *climbing*
KotF (Flame),  KotAM (Anecdotal Motorcycle),  The Daemon's Byte
       Contrary to popular belief, I am not the Devil's advocate...
                  ...but I am his speech writer.
Newsgroups: news.groups
From: rdd@cactus.org (Robert Dorsett)
Subject: Re: rec.aviation?
Organization: Capital Area Central Texas UNIX Society, Austin, Tx
Date: Fri, 21 Aug 1992 08:20:34 GMT

In article <9208210445.AA14310@bi.twinsun.com> junio@bi.twinsun.com (Jun Hamano) writes:
>Does anybody know what happened to the proposed rec.aviation
>splitting?

The RFD period ended on the 15th.  The CFV is in the final stages of
fine-tuning, and should soon be available at a neighborhood site near you.
:-)





---
Robert Dorsett
rdd@cactus.org
...cs.utexas.edu!cactus.org!rdd
Newsgroups: news.groups,rec.music.classical,alt.guitar
From: brownw@hercules.cs.uregina.ca (Bill Brown)
Subject: Re: RFD: rec.music.classical.guitar -small correction
Reply-To: brownw@hercules.uregina.ca (Bill Brown)
Organization: University of Regina, Regina, Saskatchewan
Date: Sat, 22 Aug 1992 14:57:42 GMT

In article <Bt7pq2.3EA@uunet.uu.net> davidc@brahms.udel.edu 
>(David Casper) writes:
>
>NOTE: A list of those interested in "rec.music.classical.guitar" 
>has been compiled by Bill Brown (brown@hercules.cs.uregina.ca)
                                  ^^^^^
Actually, it's brownw@hercules.cs.uregina.ca.  I don't know if it
               ^^^^^^
is just a lost character during transmission, or whether the cross-
postings are this way, too, but `brown' never logs on, so if you
mailed to him, obviously I never saw your mail.

:-)
Bill

>David W. Casper
>davidc@brahms.udel.edu

Newsgroups: news.groups
From: fau@po.CWRU.Edu (Francis A. Uy)
Subject: rec.games.war
Reply-To: fau@po.CWRU.Edu (Francis A. Uy)
Organization: Case Western Reserve University, Cleveland, OH (USA)
Date: Sat, 22 Aug 92 04:50:14 GMT


In a previous article, os9ug@gkcl.ists.ca (OS-9 User Group) says:

>The problem is that I am looking for posts on abstract games of
>pure strategy, such as shogi, pente, mankala, draughts, checkers --
>posts which are currently being distributed over rec.games.chess,
>rec.games.go and rec.games.board -- whereas what I find in rec.games.board
>is an overwhelming number of posts concerning war games.

>It seems to me that one sensible solution would be to create a 
>newsgroup called rec.games.war.  (1) We know there is enough volume
>to support it.  (2) It would leave rec.games.board wide open for 
>discussion of all other sorts of games, which at the moment would
>be mostly the strategic games I like so much.  
[etc.]

I agree + would support the creation of rec.games.war.  
 BTW, what is the appropriate board for discussing 
 Diplomacy?
-- 
Francis A. Uy			moving to Baltimore as of 8/24
Program Director, WUMD		approaching reality from UMBC
From: joshua@Veritas.COM (Joshua Levy)
Newsgroups: news.groups
Subject: Re: RFD: misc.transit
Date: 12 Aug 92 23:30:28 GMT
Organization: VERITAS Software

In article <1992Aug11.212750.1380@ncar.ucar.edu> ilana@kiowa.scd.ucar.edu (Ilana Stern) writes:
>If it isn't clear, this group *is* intended to focus on "alternative"
>transit modes, i.e. alternatives to traditional single-occupant 
>autos.  

If this is true, then the name should reflect this focus:
misc.transit.alternative or misc.alt-transit or something like that.

Joshua Levy  (joshua@veritas.com)
Newsgroups: news.groups,rec.bicycles
From: bgeer@javelin.sim.es.com (Bob Geer)
Subject: Re: RESULT: rec.bicycles reorganization passes
Reply-To: bgeer@javelin.sim.es.com
Organization: Evans & Sutherland Computer Corporation
Distribution: na
Date: Wed, 19 Aug 1992 14:33:03 GMT

tr@samadams.princeton.edu (Tom Reingold) writes:

>There were many calls for discussion and much discussion, all over the
>course of MONTHS.  The entire procedure was done by the book.

Those who carried out the re-org did a good job & most of us
appreciate their time & energy.  As far as I am aware, there was no
imperial tendencies in their efforts.  I personally expect
wreck.bike.<whatever> participation to increase, now that those with
specialized interests won't have to wade thru everything.  Thanks,
guys*!!!

On the other hand, those who are dissatisfied with the re-org are free
to come up with their own plan & take it thru the established
proceedures.  I'm sure the people responsible for the recent re-org
will happily consult with them.  C'mon guys, it only takes a little
time & energy -- put some of it where your nay-sayer mouths are!
(Yeah, like I really expect them to!!! :-)

* Guys: neuter gender reference intended here since I don't actually
know if only males were involved with the re-org.
-- 
<> Bob `Bear' Geer <>  bgeer@beorn.sim.es.com           *    _\|/_  *       <>
<>      alta-holic <>   (this *often* works)     _\|/_    o   /|\    _\|/_  <>
<> Salt Lake City, <>  speaking only for myself,  /|\    <\       *   /|\   <>
<>          Ootah  <>  one of my many tricks          __ /__,               <>
From: ddebry@itchy.dsd.es.com (David DeBry)
Subject: Re: RFD: comp.graphics.gnuplot
Description: Tall, skinny, kinda goofy looking
Uucp: ...!uunet!dsd.es.com!ddebry 
Reply-To: David DeBry <ddebry@dsd.es.com> 
Organization: Evans & Sutherland Computer Corp., Design Systems Division 
Date: 13 Aug 92 19:10:50 GMT
Irc: Z-Grue (Zorkian Grue) 
Detailed-Info: finger ddebry@cc.utah.edu 
Day-Phone: (801) 582-5847 x4721 
Internet: ddebry@dsd.es.com 

In <1992Aug13.171151.10219@aero.org> langer@aero.org (John V. Langer) writes:
>In article <Bsvoy0.A2u@news.cso.uiuc.edu> d-lewart@uiuc.edu (Daniel S. Lewart) writes:
>>comp.graphics.* is for computer graphics, not software packages.  I think
>>comp.apps.gnuplot would be a more appropriate name.
>Comp.graphics is a wonderful group that includes discussion on a wide
>range of computer-graphics related issues.  Many threads focus on specific
>software packages, and many don't.  More than a few discussions associated
>with Gnuplot concern the sorts of computer graphics issues seen in 
>comp.graphics.

	Yes, there are _threads_ that deal with specific software
packages, but not entire _newsgroups_ in the comp.graphics hierarchy.

	I think that putting it in comp.apps is a much better idea
than any I've heard of so far.


--
\\\ "Sorry, my mind went to Bermuda for a minute there."              \\\
\\\                                                    - Steve Martin \\\
\\\                                                                   \\\
\\ ddebry@dsd.es.com \ ddebry@cc.utah.edu \ debry@cadehp0.eng.utah.edu \\
David DeBry \ Email any address. \ Finger ddebry@cc.utah.edu for details.
Newsgroups: news.groups
From: tinsel@uiuc.edu (Thomas Aaron Insel)
Subject: Re: RFD: several instrument-specific rec.music groups
Originator: tai50080@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu
Reply-To: tinsel@uiuc.edu
Organization: {not speaking for the} University of Illinois at Urbana
Date: Thu, 20 Aug 1992 21:19:35 GMT

dave@jato.jpl.nasa.gov (Dave Hayes) writes:

> rec.music.makers.guitar
> rec.music.makers.bass	(not just electric players but string bass too)

How 'bout rec.music.makers.guitar.bass (Hellish, isn't it), and have
rec.music.makers.strings for non-guitar string instruments.  (Your
groups cover everything from pipe-organ to tuba, but leave out most
of the classical strings -- violin, viola, cello.

> rec.music.makers.keys

This should be .keyboard, to avoid confusion with any aspect of music theory.

> rec.music.makers.percussion
> rec.music.makers.wind

I'm not entirely sure there is enough traffic for a winds group.  As a 
wind player, I watch rec.music.makers sometimes, and see almost no 
discussion of wind instruments.  Perhaps it occurs elsewhere.
-- 
Thomas Aaron Insel (tinsel@uiuc.edu)
  I speak for myself, and not for the State or University of Illinois.
  "We must not confuse dissent with disloyalty." -- Edward R. Murrow
Newsgroups: news.groups
From: comrade@uniwa.uwa.edu.au (Peter Cooper)
Subject: Re: one reason why the comp.unix reorg is a mistake
Organization: University of Western Australia
Date: Wed, 19 Aug 1992 13:54:00 GMT

chip@chinacat.unicom.com (Chip Rosenthal) writes:

[talking about the bizarre comp.unix.* reorg]

>The bulk of this reorganization is a mistake and deserves to be
>rejected.
...
>This reorg invents a whole new level of newsgroups based upon UNIX
>distribution:  System V, System III, OSF/1, etc.  No need has ever
>been demonstrated for this.  Some people might think that they are
>worthwhile topics, and once the groups exist the traffic will follow.
>Creating newsgroups to satisfy nonexistent but merely hypothesized
>demand has been show time and again to be a mistake.

>comp.unix.bsd illustrates why this reorg is a bad idea.  When that
>group was proposed the demand existed for a place to discuss BSD on
>386/486 machines.  Instead of satisfying that demand, we created a
>general comp.unix.bsd newsgroup.  The comp.unix.ultrix people haven't
>been posting there.  The SunOS 4 users aren't posting there.  The only
>people using it are the 386BSD users, and to a lesser extent the BSDI
>BSD/386 folks.  They use it because we shoved comp.unix.bsd down their
>throats instead of giving them what they really needed.  If we give
>these people a proper home, the comp.unix.bsd traffic would pretty
>much dry up, modulo the USL vs BSDI/UCB discussions.

Bzzzzt.  Wrong.  When the comp.unix.bsd group was proposed and created,
there was a large amount of *generic* traffic regarding BSD-derived OS's
sitting in all sorts of strange groups.  Traffic included some stuff on
creating a port of NET/2 to the 386 (and it wasn't the project you've
been hearing so much about :), the Amiga, and lots of speculation on
BSD4.4.  Shortly after the voting period ended, Bill Jolitz released the
wonderful 386BSD, and beta copies of BSDI's product started shipping to
more than 1 or 2 sites.  The problem with comp.unix.bsd was that it was
created too closely to the explosion of available implementations.  It
was expected that the group would subdivide in the event of things like
the CMU BSD server for MACH, or a free port of NET/2 for the 386.  Now
with the legal action hanging over NET/2, there is not much of an
opportunity to subdivide in a sensible manner.  Blame USL, not the
people who voted for the "generic" group.

The very same argument was used *then* to create ONLY one group.  How
the cycle turns.

Peter
-- 
email:  comrade@uniwa.uwa.edu.au   snail:  Peter Cooper, box 22
fax:    +61 9 380 1041                     Guild of Undergraduates
phone:  +61 9 380 3929                     University of Western Australia
"It was the banana that did it!" - Julia Marley
Xref: sparky news.groups:16770 comp.sys.m68k:1021 comp.os.misc:766 comp.unix.large:274 comp.databases.oracle:1266