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Newsgroups: bit.listserv.vmesa-l
Date:         Thu, 8 Oct 1992 10:23:00 PDT
From:         Darrow Neves <IDEN400@PCMAIL.IUPUI.EDU>
Subject:      RE: 3211 Support in 1.1

We are running VM/ESA 1.1 and we have a 3211 defined. As I understand
it, a real IBM 3211 printer is not supported. However, the control blocks
and gen process do support the 3211 so that 3rd party printers which
use the 3211 control blocks will still function. This applies particularly
to Zerox printers. We have a channel attached attached Zerox 4050 genned as
a 3211 and it works fine.

Darrow
 -------
From: VMESA-L
To: Darrow Neves
Subject: 3211 Support in 1.1
Date: Thursday, October 08, 1992 9:22AM

The VM/ESA 1.1 Conversion Notebook (P. SP-26) indicates that the 3211
printer is no longer supported.  However, the CP Planning and Adminis-
tration manual (p.391) says that it is supported.

Can someone tell me which is correct?

Also, the Conversion Notebook states that remote BSC 3274's are not
supported thru CLUSTER and TERMINAL macros.  The terminals must now
be defined to VM/Pass-Through.

Does anyone know of an alternative to VM/Pass-Through?

Francis J. Hensler, CDP                     BITNET: FJH@SRU
Software Support Specialist                 Phone: (412) 738-2033
Slippery Rock University Computer Center    PANET:     8-654-2033
Slippery Rock, PA  16057-1326  USA   "Yes, Virginia, there is a Slippery
Rock"
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.vmesa-l
Date:         Tue, 13 Oct 1992 11:04:12 PDT
From:         Wayne McCaughan <DS000@CALPOLY.BITNET>
Subject:      Performance Questions
Comments: cc: Ken Burton <DA022@CALPOLY.BITNET>,
              Bob Bojorquez <DS003@CALPOLY.BITNET>

We have just upgraded from VM/XA SP 2.1 to VM/ESA 1.1 this last weekend and
have experienced a noticable increase in paging rates (from 100 to >300 pages
per second) with a corresponding degradation in response time.  Our ESA system
provides minimal CMS services as most of our work is done in an AIX/370 guest,
a VM/XA SP 2.1 guest, and a VM/SP 5.0 guest.  We had thought that this change
would have been essentially transparent since our users don't interact with
ESA directly.  Any thoughts?

System config: 3090/400E partitioned (VM/ESA has 2 processors and 128Mb)

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Wayne McCaughan                  Bitnet: DS000@CALPOLY             __________
VM Systems Programmer          Internet: ds000@oasis.calpoly.edu   \        /
Information Systems               Voice: (805)756-7667            Silence=Death
California Polytechnic State Univ.  FAX: (805)756-1536             Action=Life
San Luis Obispo, CA USA  93407                                         \/
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.vmesa-l
Date:         Mon, 12 Oct 1992 08:54:55 EST
From:         John Eiszner <JEISZNER@INDYCMS.BITNET>
Subject:      VM on RS/6000
Comments: To: IBM Mainframe Discussion List <IBM-MAIN@RICEVM1.BITNET>

Up to now the IBM side of our shop has been mainly S/370 mainframe
(VM and MVS) and DOS-based workstations (PCs, PS/2s, various clones).
We are now giving serious thought to establishing a general-user *IX
platform, most likely based on one or more RS/6000 (correct identifier?)
machines running AIX.

Does anyone know of an IBM plan to support VM on the RS/6000 architecture?
I've seen the S/370 instruction set board for the PS/2 at SHARE, so it
appears that IBM intends to support VM on that family of workstations.
I have little experience with *IX but I keep hearing glowing reviews of
the RS/6000 boxes.  It seems to me that VM on the RS/6000 would be
a perfect pairing.  I'd be very interested in the opinions (pro or con)
of those more knowledgeable about this machine.

Any IBMers care to comment?

Note: cross-posting to IBM and VM-ESA lists intentional.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------
| John Eiszner, Lead Systems Programmer                               |
| Indiana University-Purdue University at Indianapolis (IUPUI)        |
| (317) 274-0751--JEISZNER@INDYCMS.BITNET--JEISZNER@INDYCMS.IUPUI.EDU |
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
From: DS000@CALPOLY.BITNET (Wayne McCaughan)
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.vmesa-l
Subject: Re: 3211 Support in 1.1
Date: 8 Oct 92 14:51:39 GMT
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU

On Thu, 8 Oct 1992 09:22:24 EDT Fran Hensler said:
>The VM/ESA 1.1 Conversion Notebook (P. SP-26) indicates that the 3211
>printer is no longer supported.  However, the CP Planning and Adminis-
>tration manual (p.391) says that it is supported.
>
>Can someone tell me which is correct?

I have ESA 1.1 running as a guest under XA SP 2.1 and I was able to define
a virtual 3211 printer and print to it from the ESA machine.  Also, I had
already generated the IMG files for 3211.  Don't know what they could be
referring to here, because all the support seems to be there.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Wayne McCaughan                  Bitnet: DS000@CALPOLY             __________
VM Systems Programmer          Internet: ds000@oasis.calpoly.edu   \        /
Information Systems               Voice: (805)756-7667            Silence=Death
California Polytechnic State Univ.  FAX: (805)756-1536             Action=Life
San Luis Obispo, CA USA  93407                                         \/
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU
Organization: SUNY at Stony Brook NY 11794-2400
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.vmesa-l
Date:         Tue, 13 Oct 1992 20:05:16 EDT
From:         Leonard Boyle <LENBOYLE@CCVM.SUNYSB.EDU>
Subject:      Re: VM on RS/6000
              13 Oct 1992 15:14:57 -0800 from <drake@ALMADEN.IBM.COM>

On Tue, 13 Oct 1992 15:14:57 -0800 Sam Drake said:
>In article <921012185942.vmesa-l.netforum.interest@almvma.vnet.ibm.com> you wri
>te:
>>Does anyone know of an IBM plan to support VM on the RS/6000 architecture?
>
>
>IBM already sells a line of MicroChannel based S/390s that can run VM,
>the 9371s.  What would you expect to get out of VM on a '6000 that you
>wouldn't get from a 9371?  (I'm just curious.)
>

I think that many people think that the price-performance of the 9371s
is not good.

>Now AIX *was* written with portability in mind, and so you can run AIX
>under VM on your S/390 computers quite nicely.  But taking VM the other
>way would be rather more difficult.
>
But a 370 or 370/esa micro-channel card installed on the rs/6000
with aix doing support might not be too hard. It would be interesting
to know how hard it would be to port the PS/2-OS/2 hardware-software to
rs/6000-aix.
I am sure that with the right people this could be done. But I guess one
would have to ask if there is any future for any 370/390 asside from the
largest database applications.

>Sam Drake / IBM Almaden Research Center

-------------------------------------------------------------------------
Leonard Boyle  Computing Center             lenboyle@sbccvm.bitnet
SUNY at Stony Brook NY USA 11794-2400       lenboyle@ccvm.sunysb.edu
From: TROTH@RICEVM1.RICE.EDU (Rick Troth)
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.vmesa-l
Subject: Re: VM on RS/6000
Date: 15 Oct 92 18:44:51 GMT
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU

>> >> Nor does MACH, to my understanding, allow
>> >> other operating systems (such as MACH) to run under it; it does not
>> >> virtualize the CPU's supervisor state;   ...
>
>If you measure the capability from an application standpoint   ...
>analagous to the virtual machine concept. The Mach microkernel
>provides services to servers that are very similar to the CP
>services, and (my opinion) are somewhat more generic than the CP
>services.

        Right.   I didn't want to pick nits,  so I didn't say anything,
but apparently you  CAN  run Mach on Mach.   I'd very much like to try.
This is not to say that it works *now*,  but that it's (relatively)
trivial to accomplish.   Convincing a significant number of people
that it's worth doing is the hard part.   VM is kinda like sex, or
even Christianity:  until you've tried it,  you just don't understand.

        So ... the 6K can't virtualize itself.  Bummer.  Maybe POWER can.

Rick Troth <troth@ricevm1.rice.edu>, Rice University, I/S VM Systems Support
From: DRAKE@ALMADEN.BITNET ((Sam Drake))
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.vmesa-l
Subject: Re: VM on RS/6000
Date: 15 Oct 92 21:17:57 GMT
Organization: IBM Almaden Research Center
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU

In article <921015185424.vmesa-l.netforum.interest@almvma.vnet.ibm.com> you writ
e:
>        So ... the 6K can't virtualize itself.  Bummer.  Maybe POWER can.

The '6000 *is* the "POWER" architecture.  If you're referring to
"POWER PC", a la the 601 chip and friends as developed by IBM, Motorola
and Apple, it won't efficiently self-virtualize, either.  Sorry.

--
Sam Drake / IBM Almaden Research Center
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.vmesa-l
Date:         Thu, 8 Oct 1992 10:01:42 EDT
Comments:     Converted from PROFS to RFC822 format by PUMP V2.2X
From:         LJWIES01@ULKYVM.LOUISVILLE.EDU
Subject:      3211 Support in 1.1

   I went to a VM/ESA 1/2 day overview presented by IBM last week.  When they
were asked about this their answer was that the real hardware device (3211)
was no longer supported, but devices emulating it would be supported.  I'm
not sure how that works, but that was their answer.

   I will wait till I get a second level test system up to look into it some
more.

Louis J. Wiesemann
University of Louisville     Phone: (502) 588-8952
Bitnet:LJWIES01@ULKYVM, Internet:LJWIES01@ULKYVM.LOUISVILLE.EDU
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU
Organization: SUNY at Stony Brook NY 11794-2400
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.vmesa-l
Date:         Thu, 8 Oct 1992 10:40:44 EDT
From:         Leonard Boyle <LENBOYLE@CCVM.SUNYSB.EDU>
Subject:      Re: 3211 Support in 1.1
              8 Oct 1992 10:01:42 EDT from <LJWIES01@ULKYVM.LOUISVILLE.EDU>

On Thu, 8 Oct 1992 10:01:42 EDT <LJWIES01@ULKYVM.LOUISVILLE.EDU> said:
>   I went to a VM/ESA 1/2 day overview presented by IBM last week.  When they
>were asked about this their answer was that the real hardware device (3211)
>was no longer supported, but devices emulating it would be supported.  I'm
>not sure how that works, but that was their answer.
>
Its only a paperwork thing. IBM no longer supports the real 3211 and other
real devices so there software no longer supports them. But they know that
a large number of people use devices that look like 3211's. So they
have made a commitment to leave the code in and support the software for
devices that look like 3211's. Of course it helps that IBM has supported
devices that are 3211 like.

>   I will wait till I get a second level test system up to look into it some
>more.
>
>Louis J. Wiesemann
>University of Louisville     Phone: (502) 588-8952
>Bitnet:LJWIES01@ULKYVM, Internet:LJWIES01@ULKYVM.LOUISVILLE.EDU

-------------------------------------------------------------------------
Leonard Boyle  Computing Center             lenboyle@sbccvm.bitnet
SUNY at Stony Brook NY USA 11794-2400       lenboyle@ccvm.sunysb.edu
From: WTS@MAINE.MAINE.EDU ((Wayne Smith))
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.vmesa-l
Subject: Re: Performance Questions
Date: 14 Oct 92 12:55:25 GMT
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU

Wayne McCaughan <DS000@CALPOLY.BITNET> writes ...
>We have just upgraded from VM/XA SP 2.1 to VM/ESA 1.1 this last weekend and
>have experienced a noticable increase in paging rates (from 100 to >300 pages
>per second) with a corresponding degradation in response time.  Our ESA system
>provides minimal CMS services as most of our work is done in an AIX/370 guest,
>a VM/XA SP 2.1 guest, and a VM/SP 5.0 guest.  We had thought that this change
>would have been essentially transparent since our users don't interact with
>ESA directly.  Any thoughts?

What did you have and what do you now have in terms of performance
tweaking?  Are you using similar QUICKDSP and RESERVE settings?  Has
your trace table size changed?  Are you *sure* you have enough page
space?

Is your "minimal CMS services" using all of the NSSs available?  If you
don't have CMS, CMSINST and CMSVMLIB segments ...  do so quickly!

cheers and good luck,
wayne

Wayne T. Smith, CCP
Systems Group - CAPS              BITNET/CREN:  wts@maine
University of Maine System        internet:     wts@maine.maine.edu
From: USERALVE@RPITSMTS.BITNET (Brian Eliot)
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.vmesa-l
Subject: Re: ESA vs. XA mode on a 3090-200J under ESA 1.1.1/CMS 8
Date: 15 Oct 92 16:29:54 GMT
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU

> Some say SET MACH ESA and SET MACH XA are identical, and others have said
> there are differences.  How 'bout it?

The "SET MACHINE" page in VM/ESA CP Command and Utility Reference is
explicit is saying that MACHINE XA and MACHINE ESA are identical.  The
only reason the distinction is maintained is to honor a subsequent
"Q SET" command, where the architectural mode is displayed as XA or ESA
according to the last SET MACHINE.  From the viewpoint of a guest
operating system there is no difference between the capabilities of a
virtual machine running as MACHINE XA or MACHINE ESA.  In either case,
the guest operating system can set control register 0, bit 15 to select
between 370-XA function and ESA/370 / ESA/390 function, which bit being
where the distinction between the two architectural modes is really
controlled.

Brian Eliot
Information Technology Services
Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute
From: dboyes@IS.RICE.EDU ((David E Boyes))
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.vmesa-l
Subject: Re: VM on RS/6000
Date: 15 Oct 92 03:57:31 GMT
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU
X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.3 PL11]
Comments: To: VMESA-L@uafsysb.uark.edu
              at Oct 14, 92 5:16 pm

> Essentially, what Mach and similar systems can potentially
> is to run programs that were written for a variety of operating systems
> FOR THE SAME HARDWARE.  The operating system can tailor the appearance
> of it's system call interfaces (SVCs, if you will) so that different
> programs see different kernal interfaces ... an OS/2 program sees OS/2
> compatible calls, while a DOS program sees DOS compatible calls, for
> example.
> This does NOT help if you want to run programs written for two
> different architectures at once; MACH does not emulate VAX instructions
> on a S/370, for example.

Actually, there's nothing preventing a Mach server task from
emulating a completely different processor architecture -- there
is ongoing work at CMU on processor emulators and support code
for the 68000 and i860 on DECstations (a MIPS-based processor).
The Mach 3.x  microkernel provides a set of basic system services
such as process and I/O scheduling -- illegal instruction traps
in the emulator server can be handled in user space, or simulated
in the server and translated to microkernel requests, in a
fashion that is extremely similar to the SVC mechanism that
S/370 guests can use to request services from CP. In fact, the
design of CP and CMS provided some inital discussion in the early
stages of the microkernel design.

(Incidentally, some of the research being done on the portable
version of VMS on the new whiz-bang Alpha chips is deeply rooted
in the Mach microkernel/server model -- funny thing, a lot of CMU
grads end up working at DEC...8-). )

> Nor does MACH, to my understanding, allow
> other operating systems (such as MACH) to run under it; it does not
> virtualize the CPU's supervisor state; it simply emulates the system
> calls that various operating systems provide to problem state
> programs.

Operation of multiple OS servers is a stated design feature of
the Mach 3.0 microkernel. The Unix server and the DOS server
already coexist on the same microkernel, to the point of being
able to play Wing Commander in the DOS server while watching GNU
Emacs compile on the Unix side.

If you're interested in more information about Mach, CMU
maintains an extensive archive of papers and information
on mach.cs.cmu.edu that's available via anonymous FTP.

> Sam Drake / IBM Almaden Research Center
From: MJV@BROWNVM.BITNET (Marshall Vale -- Honda-L Moderator)
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.new-list
Subject: LIST CHANGE: Info-Honda is now Honda-L
Date: 13 Oct 92 22:10:28 GMT
Reply-To: MJV@BROWNVM.BITNET
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU
Resent-Organization: North Dakota Higher Education Computer Network
Approved-By:  Marty Hoag <NU021172@NDSUVM1.BITNET>


The list dedicated to the discussion of Honda Automobiles has been
moved from info-honda@cs.ucla.edu to Brown University. The list not
only has a new address but a new name. The new addresses are:

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        or

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The Honda-l list is supported by a LISTSERV at Brown.

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Newsgroups: bit.listserv.new-list
Subject: NEW LIST: MSMAIL-L - Microsoft Mail
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Newsgroups: bit.listserv.new-list
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Reply-To:     SYSMAINT@PCCVM.BITNET
From:         "Russell N. Hathhorn, VM Systems Support" <SYSMAINT@PCCVM.BITNET>
Subject:      STREK-L Changes

STREK-L has been de-peered with HEARN and is now housed solely at PCCVM

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+---------------------------------------------+-------------------------------+
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Subject:      NEW LIST: DISC-L - List for Discovery Channel

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