HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: sterling@netcom.com (Bruce Sterling Woodcock)
Subject: Re: Tiny logs ...
Keywords: tinylogs, twinks, flame, penn, idiocy
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services  (408 241-9760 guest) 
Date: Thu, 15 Oct 1992 17:34:53 GMT

I haven't commented on this yet, as I normally just lurk in this newsgroup,
but I thought I'd clear a couple of things up.

>In article <A700E2224F015032@ghostwheel.dartmouth.edu> takkyon@dartmouth.edu (Dr. Tachyon) writes:
>Hmm.. those possibilities sound reasonable to me. But guessing motive is
>one of the hardest things to do eh?

I agree... the logs are quite a varied lot, and deal with a bunch of different
people.  Most of them are furry in nature, but then, so are most of the mudders
who use netcom.  While it seems none of my files were compromised, I certainly
didn't reflect well in the logs.  Nothing stops Bruce, after all.  And it
certainly reflects on my management of the T|D Lounge on Islandia that such
orgies were allowed to go on there, although without my knowledge.  And that
Nymph macro should have died a long time ago. :)

>Yes, but not just the guest account. Don't forget that said person
>probably had to break into the logger's account? Perhaps the logger didn't
>choose a secure password either?

I've been assissting bobr (the netcom sysadmin) in tracking this person down,
but it is really hopeless.  Accounts on netcom were not broken into, it seems.
The users involved left their directories open and their files world readable.
Thus, the person could have accquired the files over an extended period of
time, and the postings from the upenn site could have be set up to be done
from at or cron or even a time-delayed shell script.  Even the connections
between the upenn site and netcom could have been done via scripts.

And I'm not sure there would be a case for saying the guest account was
"broken" into.  Many sites have guest accounts with no password, which could
be construed as open invitations to access.  And, in this case, it was
said that the account had a bad password... something obvious like "guest"
or "anonymous" could also be construed as an open invitation.

I guess my point is that while what this person did was certainly annoying,
the circumstances may have given them "implicit" permission to do so, at
least in a legal sense.  But I'm no expert on computer law... anyone else is
free to give facts to the contrary.  I'm merely speculating at this point.
But even if there is no legal recourse, I think threats of physical violence
is rather childish, and may even undermine attempts to prosecute this person.

Bruce

-- 
| sterling@netcom.com     |  "It is now quite lawful for a catholic woman to |
| sterling@oldcolo.com    |    avoid pregnancy by a resort to mathematics,   |
| bwoodcoc@nyx.cs.du.edu  |    though she is still forbidden to resort to    |
| sterling@gnu.ai.mit.edu | physics or chemistry." -H.L. Mencken (1880-1956) |
Newsgroups: rec.games.mud.tiny
From: foxen@netcom.com (Foxen)
Subject: Re: VT 2.14 beta release
Organization: The Church of the Holy Fur of Ilura
Date: Thu, 15 Oct 1992 22:39:13 GMT

ghudson@athena.mit.edu (Gregory B Hudson) writes:
>                                                       I have
>developed a better set of examples, including a simple Scheme
>interpreter written in VTC as an example of a large-scale application.

ACK!  It's the attack of the interpreted interpreters!  I thought I was the
only one crazy enough to write an interpreter in an interpreted language.
(MIST:  Muf Interpreted STackless language)    }=)

	- Foxen/Revar/Tygryss (With 2 'y's, dangit!)

-- 
        ___  __    ___   _   .   _^^        ____     foxen@netcom.netcom.com
 \   / |    |  \  |     | |  -> '-" \______/___/     Another Fine Furry Fan
  `v'  |--  |--<  |---  `v'  '    ,| _____ |        "Support the Church of
   |   |___ |   \ |      o       //||    |||         the Holy Fur of Ilura!"
Newsgroups: rec.games.mud.tiny
From: noel@umbc2.umbc.edu
Subject: Another Side of TinyLog Postings
Organization: University of Maryland Baltimore County
Date: Wed, 14 Oct 1992 12:02:36 GMT


	I have skimmed through some of the logs and I am shocked as 
everyone else, maybe moreso.
	I do not have a netcom account, however two of my characters figure 
prominantly in logs from their respective partners (No, I am not telling 
who they are).  What really hurts is that I have taken security 
precautions, but I am still humiliated publicly becuase somone had loggged 
me.  Seeing recreations of other people's lovemaking made me feel kind of 
queasy thinking about who is being hurt.
	My machine runs VMS so I use raw telnet.  WHen I log its through 
the communication software.  After I record the log I edit it offline to 
remove things like whispers and pages.  Also, I ask the other parties 
involved if I may log them.  One person requested I not log anything I do 
with them--now I can see why.

	WHoever posted these logs seemed to be gunning for specific people, 
and rather than reiterate what others have said about the person I will 
only add I agree 100% with all of you.
	My only hope is that its not some smartass who tries to justify 
this travesty by claiming they were pointing out secruity problems.  This 
person should have left E-mail warnings if they wanted to do that and left 
the Billy Badass tiger-team HACKING  to the people who do it for a living.

	I would like to thank all those people who offered me their comfort 
and support--as well as compliments on my er, writing talents.  Its nice to 
know that 99% of the people out there are pretty decent folks--and they are 
why I enjoy being here
Newsgroups: rec.games.mud.tiny
From: spc55721@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (the Shadowlurker)
Subject: Re: tinyspying
Disclaimer: This article may self destruct if exposed to flames.
Reply-To: spc55721@sumter.cso.uiuc.edu
Organization: University of Illinois at Urbana
Date: Tue, 13 Oct 1992 08:26:11 GMT

jmorill@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (John M Morrill):
> Furthermore, if the wizards are so busy that they *often* have to hide from
> the players, then I would say it is time to increase the number of wizards.

We already have seven wizards on NewDay, five of whom are active on the muck,
but only about one seems to connect at a given time.  My job as wizard could
probably be best described as "night watchman" since I'm the only wiz on late
at night.  Eos, the head wizard, doesn't even connect for more than five
minutes (meaning: her player actually has a life!)

What we need to increase is the number of active wizards during "peak hours",
but of course that would mean cutting into the wizards' players' real lives.

lwl@eniac.seas.upenn.edu (Lydia Leong):
> I do think, however, that a dark wizard who goes into a room should
> announce his presence immediately, just so people know he's there.

What I'd like to know is why a wizard needs to be moving around while dark.
Make it more convenient for him to take care of links/descs/properties?

My first wiz bit came from NewDay, so everything I say is definitely IMHIO
(In my humble, inexperienced opinion)

-- 
the Shadowlurker      "Lucky" Steven P. Calica      <spc55721@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu>
Newsgroups: rec.games.mud.tiny
From: mmead@nyx.cs.du.edu (Matt Mead)
Subject: Re: What REALLY happened on NewDay (spying)
Keywords: spy newday wizards
Organization: University of Denver, Dept. of Math & Comp. Sci.
Date: Tue, 13 Oct 92 23:09:02 GMT


   Ok....Let's get one thing straight.  I did not attempt to blame Howard
of the A5 fame.  What I said there was that I needed to talk to him.  I
was then attempting to trace down someone hacking into my computer from a
site at Towson State University.  If you really care about the details,
ask him, he resolved a number which my DNS could not handle for some
reason or another.  If you would have included the entire log file of what
we said, this would have been obvious, as when you logged back on, I told
you the incident was unrelated.  At that point I was worried because
someone on this campus had his 'root' account hacked and Bell Labs was
broken into from his computer. 

   About the spying.  True, I had a Dark Puppet.  It was used to alert me
when someone logged on.  However, I know for a fact that a wizard spied on
me from a later conversation with one, which the log above may point out. 
I had been discussing something not related to MUCKs with a guy 3 doors
down and this was repeated to me.  I may have made a mistake in posting
from jkale@nyx.cs.du.edu, but it was only so that the few wizards on there
that did seem to be benevolent would not change their attitudes.  This may
be a little two faced, but I deemed it necessary to try to solve the
problem.



Please send all flames/etc. to flame@meadmc.async.vt.edu, I would rather
you not fill up NYX's disk with them.


Matthew C. Mead
From: sundog@ecst.csuchico.edu (Mark Stone)
Newsgroups: rec.games.mud.tiny
Subject: Those logs.
Summary: thoughts, questions, call for analysis
Keywords: logs, questions, furrymuck, netcom, privacy, etc
Date: 15 Oct 92 03:07:36 GMT
Reply-To: sundog@amber.ecst.csuchico.edu
Organization: California State University, Chico
NNTP-Posting-Host: amber.ecst.csuchico.edu


These logs were supposed to be incriminating someone.  At least, that's
what I got from them.  Who were they supposed to be incriminating?

Erych/ChrisMoir/Stymnus?  FurryMUCK?  Furries?  Islandia?

What motivated their appearance?  Are they merely history?  Is
it recounting?  Is it recounting anything specific?

Most of the people logged *knew* they were being logged.  It was announced
at some point during the course of events.  Some of the logs seemed to
be private email.  Except to whom?  Is this the person who posted, or
was their account broken into?

The furry stuff was obviously done by wizards.  DesertRose/Karen_Larson/Patrick
Swift was one logger, and his parties had no clue they were being logged.
Erych/ChrisMoir/Stymnus was another, and his parties generally knew they were
being logged.  Claire also logged, but announced it first.  This is confusing, 
isn't it?  I mean, I'm stuck on "Why did this person or persons post what 
they did?"  

Probably to bring up questions and thoughts like we're all having now.

I mean, no one was *directly* incriminated were they? 

And what pisses people off?  The incrimination?  The privacy invasion?
Sure, privacy was breached, but expecting any level of privacy from a
computer network is just fantasizing, in my opinion.  

Have people's opinions changed about the people posted about, or about
Netcom as an entity?  Both? 

I'd venture to say the people posted about are safe.
They're merely victims.  

Thoughts?


--Mark Stone
sundog@amber.ecst.csuchico.edu
> please send flames to email, not newsgroup
From: jkale@nyx.cs.du.edu (John Kale)
Subject: Re: tinyspying
Organization: University of Denver, Dept. of Math & Comp. Sci.
Date: Mon, 12 Oct 92 03:35:09 GMT

jfurr@vtssi.vt.EDU (Joel Furr) writes:

>"Confirmed suspicions that wizards are using their dark bits to tinyspy?
  

>When we log onto NewDay, we wizards are frequently deluged with mail and
>immediate requests for help.  Thus we set ourselves dark so we don't sho
 up
>in the logged-in list or the wizard list until we've had a chance to dig
>ourselves out from under the mail.  If someone runs into us in the meant
me it
>sure might look like we're tinyspying, but until such time as someone pr
grams
>in a "don't bug me" prop into our wizard program, setting yourself dark 
s
>about the only way to have freedom to wade through mail without having a
l the
>players who are logged in right then start paging you demanding help RIG
T
>THEN.  :)

>              NewDay: zeus.calpoly.edu 4201 or 129.65.16.21 4201
>------------------------------------------------------------------------
-----
>Joel Furr                                                   jfurr@vtssi.
t.edu
>------------------------------------------------------------------------
-----
>      Aphrodite  -  Chune  -  Crisis  -  Eddie  -  Fleur-de-Lis  -  gras

>   Igburyanki  -  KeyLime  -  Kilroy  -  littlewolf  -  Max  -  Mr. Kool
Aid
>             No-Neck  -  Pearl  -  Rudolpho  -  Silence  -  Tycha
Well, your explanation does make sense.  However, I still know for a fact
that there were wizards spying on me and a few other people.  One
conversation was repeated in almost verbatim to me.  Not funny.  I think
that wizards should have scruples.  There are maybe 2 wizards on NewDay
that I know are above such a thing, however, the others are not.




jkale@nyx.cs.du.edu
Newsgroups: rec.games.mud.tiny
Subject: threadway
From: MARLEY@hacks.arizona.edu (Marley Treadwell)
Date: Monday, 12 Oct 92 15:10:28 MST
Distribution: world,local
Organization: The Camelot System (Excalibur)
X-News-Reader: VMS NEWS 1.05

I feel sorry for the wizards that seem to think because they log something it
is ok for them to print it in news.
Threadway will not do that to you . It has happened recently by accident and
will not happen again. Logging of what is going on is fine but to print it
without the persons knowledge is tacky.



Come to Threadway and see the difference


Marley
Address is Jove.cs.pdx.edu or 131.252.20.12 port 4201
                              131.252.21.12 same port.
From: lwl@eniac.seas.upenn.edu (Lydia Leong)
Newsgroups: rec.games.mud.tiny
Subject: Re: Tinylog posting
Date: 13 Oct 92 21:17:55 GMT
Distribution: na
Organization: Evil Geniuses for a Better Tomorrow

Regarding the log posts:

Those logs were posted from a guest account on a Penn machine that
never should have existed. I sent email to some people who could
deal with the problem; the guest account is no longer open access.

My guess is that someone broke into Erych's accounts, stole the
logs, and abused the guest account to post them. I regret not having 
checked the site the guest logged on from before telling network 
operations here about the problem. I _did_ try to cancel the articles, 
but could not.

Anyway, that's one less abusable guest account.

/~\______________________________________________________________________/~\
|n|       Lydia Leong         | If there is anyone here that I have not  |n|
|~| lwl@eniac.seas.upenn.edu _| offended, I deeply apologize.  -- Brahms |~|
|_|_________________________|#|__________________________________________|_|
Newsgroups: rec.games.mud.tiny
From: arromdee@jyusenkyou.cs.jhu.edu (Ken Arromdee)
Subject: Re: FurryMUCK Pins Down Space Madness? :)
Keywords: furry, ****** gang, etc
Organization: Johns Hopkins University CS Dept.
Date: Fri, 16 Oct 1992 22:29:07 GMT

In article <Bw8BBr.GIo@math.okstate.edu> russ@math.okstate.edu (Horatio "Random" Hellpop) writes:
>>Excuse me? I would suggest serious counciling as a solution to this
>>anti-social behavior. I certanly would not _encorage_ nor _excuse_ it.
>Okay, we'll form a serious council.

How about calling the council the Rand-- oh, I can't use that phrase.  Never
mind.
--
"Am I still reading rec.games.mud?  In MY day, flames were much better than
that.  We didn't HAVE those nansie-pansie four letter words to swing around,
we dug up hard FACTS when we flamed, AND WE LIKED IT!"
	-- Doran, on rec.games.mud

Ken Arromdee (UUCP: ....!jhunix!arromdee; BITNET: arromdee@jhuvm;
     INTERNET: arromdee@jyusenkyou.cs.jhu.edu)
Newsgroups: rec.games.mud.tiny
From: dvandom@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (David VanDomelen)
Subject: Re: tinyspying
Organization: The Ohio State University
Date: Mon, 12 Oct 1992 13:17:16 GMT

What about @sweep?  I mean, in the MU*s I play (TIM, Trek, BTech) anyone can 
@sweep any room for listening objects, dark or not.  Of course, these are MUSEs
and MUSHes, not MUCKs (what do they all stand for anyway?), but I see no real 
reason a @sweep command couldn't be added to NewDay.  I always @sweep rooms 
before engaging in any delicate conversations/actions.  But then, I'm a 
paranoid Romulan....
     Dave Van Domelen, Jhollan'trruh all
Xref: sparky rec.games.mud:9035 rec.games.mud.diku:641
From: jdb@beach.cis.ufl.edu (John Brothers)
Newsgroups: rec.games.mud,rec.games.mud.diku
Subject: "new" diku mud
Date: 14 Oct 92 23:27:48 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: Univ. of Florida CIS Dept.


Hiya.   After a year and a month or two of work, I have grown tired of
modifying my mud, and am retiring from active coding.  So this means that
there is no reason that my mud should be in test mode anymore.

Silly Mud: (Implementor: Loki)

128.227.224.35 4000 or 4001 (it switches at reboots)

Some pertinent facts:  most people find it difficult.  
    sneezy mud and renegade outpost are based on old versions of my
    source code.  

I hate listing # of rooms, etc, it seems like so much penis-waving.

It is a big mud, however.  You can find that out for yourself when you
log in and type 'world'.

So if you want to come by and visit, feel free.  It uses midgaard as a
starting point, so it shouldn't be too hard to find your way around.

The game will only support 50 - 56 people where it is now, but 
within a few weeks or a month it should go back to a sparc, where it
could theoretically hold up to 250 players, and has in the past held
up to 80 players.  

The current host is buggy, old and has a nasty OS, which is part of the
reason I don't develop for it anymore.  But all in all, it has been pretty
stable, with uptimes of 1 1/2 days being reasonably common.  I know this
isn't the best in the world, but its good enough for me.

whoever maintains that mud list, could you please change the status of my
mud so it shows up?  Much appreciated.


Hasta
Newsgroups: rec.games.mud.admin
From: st17y@jane.uh.edu (Belding, Troy C.)
Subject: internet traffic
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41    
Organization: University of Houston
Date: Sat, 10 Oct 1992 04:53:00 GMT

I just posted that on one of the main backbones, the telnet/ftp type 
transfers take up (i think) 13 %.  To double check this, read 
rec.games.mud.misc.  That is where I posted it. 

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
I'll get a life when it is proven          Troy C. Belding
and substantiated to be better             ST17Y@JETSON.UH.EDU
than what I am currently                   HSSM@MENUDO.UH.EDU
experiencing.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: gmaples@NetConnect.NET (Greg Maples)
Newsgroups: rec.games.mud.admin
Subject: Re: The idea of COMERCIAL MUD
Date: 14 Oct 92 08:08:51 GMT
Article-I.D.: NetConne.Bw3qMs.n30
Organization: Single Source Network Systems, Inc.

Well no, I did NOT mean to imply that the current generation MUD
coders and imps are non-professional.  Simply put, when you have a 
staff of full-time programmers (gamers as well) who are PAID to 
just work on a mud, the commitment and work levels inherently go up.

Additionally, there will be NO gods or immorts on the mud.  All such
functions will be subsumed into the gods, whom players will appeal to.
These gods will be NPC gods, and will track logs for the system.

Players will all belong to societies, guilds, religions, etc. when tough
enough.  There will be no levels.  There will be location based hits, so
combat will be deadly and fast.  As characters rise in power and prestige
(yes, we will track per-character fame/infamy) they can end up commanding
armies, cults, etc.

And yes, we DO believe that we have a method for implementing client based
graphics.  The method we are thinking about is tile-based, and is resident
on the client.  The mud will be aimed at PCs and macintoshes, not unix
machines, though they will be supported via text windows.

Pricing: we've thought about it.  The player will have a choice to join in
one of two categories, competition and non-competition.  The player will also
decide whether to join hourly or monthly.  Monthly fees will include unlimited
usage.  Competition players will pay more.

Player handling: we have a very nice solution here.  We should be able to handle
over 100 players on the base system, and more than 300 players on the 2.0 vers.

more comments? Keep em coming.
gmaples@NChost.NetConnect.NET
-
Opinions - I have no opinions!
-
From: rickert@cco.caltech.edu (Keith Warren Rickert)
Newsgroups: rec.games.mud.admin
Subject: Re: Internet traffic. MUD % of total
Date: 8 Oct 1992 13:51:12 GMT
Organization: California Institute of Technology, Pasadena
NNTP-Posting-Host: sandman.caltech.edu

As I recall, the 12-15% figure was an Australian number, collected
thru one of their international links. 

Calculating a % of traffic for the Internet as a whole doesnt really
sound practical.  What could be done, is to try to calculate the 
amount (as in % of packets or bytes) thru any particular gateway.
Some of the NSF backbone gateways would probably give you 
information most like a % of total.

Of course, you are going to have to convince someone running such a gateway
that they want to go to the time, effort, and expense of doing a detailed
packet count on a major gateway handling _bootloads_ of packets.
Keith
From: emeinfel@gmuvax2.gmu.edu (...)
Newsgroups: rec.games.mud.admin
Subject: BACKING up the db
Date: 11 Oct 92 22:22:44 GMT
Organization: Ferrous Fencing Ferrets Inc.

I am goning to automate backups on my MUDs (2.0 MUSHes).  I thought it
would be safest to have a bot log in at an unpopular time, bring down
the game, and then tar the db to tape.  Any opinions on this?

Also, a MUSH specific question.  Should the db be unloaded to a flat
file for backups?

Thanks.
-- 
"Focus on winning and to hell with how you play the game."
#188 Life's Little Destruction Book
From: rmg53668@dcl-nxt53 (Ryan Martin Grant)
Newsgroups: rec.games.mud.admin
Subject: Re: Graphical MUDS?
Date: 11 Oct 92 18:22:51 GMT
Organization: University of Illinois at Urbana

whiteley@snake.ssc.gov (James Whiteley) writes:

>There is one that I know of: BsxMud.
>It is an LPMUD style game.  It requires the use of graphics clients. 

Thanks, I found the mud and successfully played it a while.
My conclusion is that while a good idea, the thing needs work.
Other MUDS could pick up the graphic interface, it looks easy 
enough to handle.  What are the general opinions of MUD admins
out there - are graphics considered an interesting expansion for
your future?
	- Ryan Grant
Newsgroups: rec.games.mud.admin
From: whiteley@snake.ssc.gov (James Whiteley)
Subject: Re: Graphical MUDS?
Organization: Superconducting Super Collider Laboratory
Date: Sat, 10 Oct 1992 01:20:51 GMT

There is one that I know of: BsxMud.

It is an LPMUD style game.  It requires the use of graphics clients. 
There are clients for the Amiga, OpenWindows(Unix), and ibm.  They are
ftpable from ftp.lysator.liu.se(130.236.254.1).  Also in that directory
is the ftp site of the mud.

-- James

================================================================================
whiteley@slug.ssc.gov                                 -----PHONE-----
James Whiteley  MS 2000                             WORK: 214-708-6341
Superconducting Super Collider Laboratory           HOME: 214-283-2948
2550 Beckleymeade                                   FAX : 214-708-6354
Dallas, TX 75237
================================================================================
#include <disclaimer.h>
From: takkyon@dartmouth.edu (Dr. Tachyon)
Newsgroups: rec.games.mud.admin
Subject: Re: Internet traffic. MUD % of total
Date: 8 Oct 92 07:24:20 GMT
Organization: PsiLords of Takis Health Club and Massage Parlor
X-Useragent: Diamond Mask v2.8

In article [snip] Ross Williamson, rossw@ccu1.aukuni.ac.nz writes:
>
>	Does anyone out there have any idea ( sorta accurate ) of the
>the volume of iternet traffic belongs to MUD users??  I have heard
>figures of 12-15% thrown around... but does anyone have more exact
>figures?
>
>Ross.

This question seems to come up here with some regularity.  Perhaps
something out to go in the FAQ?

(No, I don't have any figures.  Just suggesting.)

		-- dr. "yeah, that's it, as if Moira doesn't have enough to do" t

--
email: takkyon@dartmouth.edu / takkyon@northstar.dartmouth.edu
Ye Royal Lord High Twink-Squisher Extraodinaire, Amby's Army
Coming Soon: Belgariad II: Plush Shaav Dolls Take Over the World
"Your average Taiji guy is pretty harmless, unless he manages to bore you
to sleep with his forms practice, and then drop a rock on your head."
			-- Steven Chan