HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
Organization: Youngstown State University
Date: Wednesday, 15 Apr 1992 08:13:18 EDT
From: <00030929@ysub.ysu.edu>
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Magick

Greetings from Vajk

  Yaakov has made several statements about the "foolishness" of believing in
magick given by Maimonides and others.
  "Mortiana" writes:  "I am a practicing witch (quite new to the SCA but a
                       practicing witch nevertheless).

  I wish to make to points concerning these related statements.

  1)  Even Christian bishops sometimes refused to believe in the magick of the
witches.  So much so that one bishop FORBADE the burning of witches, because,
he said, belief in witchcraft is nonsense (he may have said heretical, I don't
have the source in front of me). Obviously, if witchcraft is a fallacy, then
there can be no witches, so burning one is tantamount to murder.
  2)  "Wicca" and "witchcraft" are separate, but interrelated, terms. The first
does indeed designate a VERY old religion, and my understanding is that Wiccans
have a horned god (I am not Wiccan myself). The very fact that it is a religion
distinct from Christianity gives a clue to the fact that Wiccans did not carry
on with "The Devil"  (or so I've been told), yet the Christian witches were
always accused of doing so (where else could they have gotten their powers?)

  In the SCA we usually think of the Christian witches, those that were most
often the object of the inquisitors. And they were not usually executed for
using magick, but for being heretics.  Of course, in hysterical times, even
Wiccans might suffer.

 Admittedly this is a superficial treatment of the subject, but the main points
I want to make are here.  Most surprising, perhaps, is that witches were not
always executed, as SCA-folk are often wont to believe.

Vajk
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
From: mcs@unlinfo.unl.edu (michael straatmann)
Subject: czech naming practices
Organization: University of Nebraska - Lincoln
Distribution: world, na, usa, local
Date: Tue, 14 Apr 1992 13:58:02 GMT

Unto the good and noble gentles gathered at the Rialto, does Gospodin 
Mikhail Nikolaevich Kramolnikov send greetings and abasement.

It seems that one of the gentles in a nearby incipient group desires a 
Czech persona.  He is of Czech descent, so knows a little bit about 
names, etc.  My knowledge is only a cursory one, and with finals rapidly
approaching, I fear that it will grow little in this area.  
Could someone please brief me on period naming practices for this area?
Any assistance or referral would be greatly appreciated.

In service,
Gospodin Mikhail
From: coody@nauvax.ucc.nau.edu
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: RE: Wheellocks
Date: 16 Apr 92 23:35:58 GMT
Organization: Northern Arizona University

The address for the company with the wheellocks is:

J.F. Schroeter Antique Arms
3363 Marigold Circle
Costa Mesa, CA  92626

The Wheellock kits come in two styles for $250., German and Italian.
Finished models for around $400.
From: jschmidt@gambrinus.tymnet.com (John Schmidt)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Laws Regarding Transport of Homebrew; Federal and State
Summary: I need the location of passages!
Date: 8 Apr 92 18:33:24 GMT
Reply-To: jschmidt@gambrinus.tymnet.com (John Schmidt)
Organization: BT North America

Good Gentles of the Rialto, a boon I beg:

Recent events here in the West Kingdom have highlighted our lack of 
knowledge concerning specific statues and laws in the matter of homebrew,
and the transport thereof.  My understanding, based on discussion with
other brewers and clubs, is that I may produce up to 200 gallons per year
of homebrewed beer, wine or similar beverages, and may NOT trade or sell
any of it (bartering is a legal trade in California).   However, someone
else looking into the situation has found the ruling to be that we may
not transport the brew to our events without special dispensation.

If anyone has access to the particular statues, either Federal or Californian,
and knows which ones apply so I can go look them up, I'd appreciated this,
as I'd like to keep brewing, and this matter needs to be resolved.  A 
very kind gentleman (Lord Brocc of Alderden) has agreed to research this for
us, and has expertise in matters of mundane law, but I would like to help
him as much as possible.

Please reply to my email address: jschmidt@gambrinus.tymnet.com.

Thank you,

Sir John Theophilous
From: MPFOSTER@mtus5.cts.mtu.EDU (Wulfgar Silberbar)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: More on light blows
Date: 8 Apr 92 15:52:40 GMT
Organization: The Internet

Milord Jonathan, I most heartily disagree! We do not need to cease the
calling of light blows to attain safety. I have only seen two "major"
injuries in SCA combat, and both were the results of accidents not
pertaining to blow strength. In one instance, a man twisted his ankle
while falling off the bridge in a bridge battle;  in the other, I broke
a man's thumb. I could not see him, but we were engaged, so I spun towards
him, throwing a blow at the same time. He also threw a blow. His sword met
my elbow as my sword met his thumb and compressed it. In neither instance
would a touch-kill system have prevented the accident. I believe that SCA
combat is remarkably safe. Much safer than, say, hockey, in which the goal
is NOT to hit your opponent, but to put the puck in the net. Our goal is
to hit our opponent, and hit him reasonably hard. Our saftey record is
spectacular considering our activity. I heard  of only three major injuries
at this last Pennsic, and that is a multi-day battle with several hundred
people attempting to hit each other! We are very safe.

I also believe that a touch-kill system would encourage more people to
wear less armour, while there would still be some hard blows thrown.

Wulfgar Silberbaer
From: trifid@agora.uucp (Roadster Racewerks)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: More membership???
Date: 12 Apr 92 16:02:51 GMT
Article-I.D.: agora.1992Apr12.160251.10793
Organization: Open Communications Forum

In article <1992Apr9.143043.21196@panix.com> ilaine@panix.com (Liz Stokes) writes:
>In article <702797969.F00001@ocitor.fidonet> Ruth.Woodring@f4229.n124.z1.fidonet.org (Ruth Woodring) writes:
>>The Society had grown too large????  Too many participants at events???  
>>Well, shucks, we'll just tell the hospitalier to cease welcoming newcomers 
>>then.... in about 5 years, there won't be any members 
>>(most Society members stay only 3-4 years), and that Duke should be happy... 
>  ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>
>	Where, pray tell, did this most interesting figure come from? From
>among my aquaintance, if they stay after the first year, they are hooked for
>good.
>							-Ilaine
>-- 
>Liz Stokes         |    Ilaine's EZ-garb workshop:
>Ilaine de Cameron  |
>                   |    "First, take a sheep. Start with a small one ..."
>ilaine@panix.com   |



This "average" must have ben drawn from a set including those who leave within
a few months, as we were just told at our mini-symposium that the average is
14 years! (Very, very long for a club setting, BTW.) 

Despite that, it is still highly unwise to try to discourage people. The shy,
serious type of young person (most likely to be tentetive at first) is exactly
the sort of person who often matures wonderfully, to the advantage of the SCA.
I have a strong suspicion that we would be discouraging the exact sort we need.

Moreach
From: cozzlab@garnet.berkeley.edu
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re:  Marion Zimmer Bradley
Date: 7 Apr 92 18:33:23 GMT
Article-I.D.: agate.rsptjINNbo9
Organization: University of California, Berkeley
NNTP-Posting-Host: garnet.berkeley.edu

In article <9204061453.AA04295@orsino> sharons@juliet.ll.mit.EDU (Sharon Stanfill) writes:
>Sister Kate says:
>
>>  At a lecture at what used to be Southwestern University in 1987, Marion
>>  Zimmer Bradley (admittedly no longer a friend of the SCA) said that she
>
>huh? what's the story here? Did MZB do something to annoy the SCA at large
>or what? I've heard lots of rumours about various things she has done/said
>that I don't particularly like, but nothing directly concerning the SCA.

To the best of my knowledge--and I see her regularly, since I sell stories
to her magazines and anthologies--Marion has nothing against the SCA.
She doesn't play with us any more, because she's old and frail and still
fairly busy.

The way I have always heard the story was that Marion went to the Park
Rangers' Office to fill out the form so we could get Joaquin Miller Park
to hold the second tourney in (June 21, 1996--the first one I went to).
The Ranger pushed this form across the desk and she started filling it
out, till she came to "Name of Organization."  ("Name of organization?
Are we an organization?  Do we have a name?") and wrote down "Society
for Creative Anachronism" because it was what she could think of.  The
bit about "so we could still wear sunglasses" sounds like something
made up after the fact--si non e vero, e ben trovato.

Dorothea of Caer-Myrddin                               Dorothy J. Heydt
Mists/Mists/West                                              Albany CA
Disclaimer: This is the Cozzarelli Lab's account, not mine--but I don't
think anybody else ever reads it.
Organization: Penn State University
Date: Wednesday, 8 Apr 1992 16:11:37 EDT
From: Therion <HZS@psuvm.psu.edu>
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: Great Lakes

In article <13153@bwdls58.bnr.ca>, hwt@bwdlh490.BNR.CA (Henry Troup) says:

>His Grace notes Tree-Girt-Sea; the Middle has the region of Pentamer
>(mundanely just Michigan, now) and the Principality of Ealdormere (Ontario).
>Since Ealdormere means Chief Lake, I'd assume it's a name for the body
>of water.  What does Aethelmarc call it?

Ours!
                  Therion #-]
From: Gerald_Del_Campo@sorinc.UUCP (Gerald Del Campo)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: Camp Ovens
Date: 12 Apr 92 00:49:18 GMT
Organization: Shades of Reality BBS - Medford, Oregon

In a message dated Sat 11 Apr 92 06:43, Carl@silver.lcs.mit.edu (carl J.m. 
wrote:

 CJ> While we're on the subject of bread, does anyone know whether 
 CJ> pasta is period, or have any sort of sources for early (ca. 1200) 
 CJ> cooking in northern Italy (specifically Venice)? 

I believe pasta came to Europe with Marco Polo, who brought it back from
China.

Gerald

-- Via DLG Pro v0.991
From: parr@acs.ucalgary.ca (Charles Parr)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: Why Call Light Blows?
Date: 13 Apr 92 18:38:30 GMT
Organization: The University of Calgary, Alberta

In article <702921619.F00006@blkcat.UUCP> Charly.the.Bastard@f1014.n147.z1.fidonet.org (Charly the Bastard) writes:
re: light vs rhino
 
You're not the only one who has this problem; rhinoleum armor abounds
here in Ansteorra.  I've watched inch-deep dents appear in 12 guage
helms to the refrain 'LIGHT' more times than I can count.  This is
strange, as Ansteorrans wear less armor than most, due to the
predominance of liquid air and broiler temps during the summer.  I'm
beginning to think that I'll have to actually go out and break a few
bones through the stopsign aluminum plate that some fighters carry on
their legs to get a called shot.  It's a pity, as I thought these
people were my friends.  Rest assured, I can do this, but I'd rather
not. (I'm a smith by trade, I knocked the bowling ball almost seven
feet.  I computed the impact force from that particular blow, it came
up 2800 ft/lb seconds, or over five horsepower.)  Perhaps there should
be some maximum armor specifications instituted, so the blows will
hurt more, bringing forth a lighter killing call.  Unfortunatly, the
trend is for more metal plate of thicker guage.  What can I say guy,
if they won't call a reasonable blow, break some bones.  Maybe they'll
get the hint after they spend a tourney season in a body cast.  Sure
takes the fun out of it though...
 
Charly

**************End quoted text*********************

The worst part about this post is that this *is* a solution...And
an effective one. I hope SCA never gets this bad though. I truly do,
because Charly is a big trog (from the sounds of things), and there
are many more like him (myself included) who are fully capable
of doing severe damage. We don't, because these are our friends,
but enough Rhino hiding can make enemies, and then things get ugly
*very* fast.

This could become a *severe* problem soon, as our armour gets better
and our (collective) attitude does not seem to be improving...

Dreadfully, I am, 
Carolus Mediocris, Montengarde, An Tir

Ps: Please do not assume that I am advocating this behavior. I am not.
The day it becomes neccessary is the day I hang up my blades and sit in the
shade with the ladies. But I *predict* it...

-- 
Within the span of the last few weeks I have heard elements of
separate threads which, in that they have been conjoined in time,
struck together to form a new chord within my hollow and echoing
gourd. --Unknown net.person
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
From: trifid@agora.uucp (Roadster Racewerks)
Subject: Re: Magick
Organization: Open Communications Forum
Date: Wed, 15 Apr 1992 16:09:51 GMT



The great Tycho Brahe, who one runs across in most astronomy beginning texts,
was a very powerful court astrologer and magician for the Danish court. So much
so that the king gave him an entire island for an observatory (much to the
dismay of the islanders, Brahe was a tyrant!) Quite a bit of his life is
available to historians, and he was born in 1546, and died just OOP in 1601.

He had a silver nose! (I forget how he lost his own, probably ticked somebody
off...) If one wanted a magician as a persona, they could do a lot worse than
Tycho for a role model. (Well, except for the temper ;-) His star pupil was 
Johannes Kepler. Both men would make much better models than some AD&D Merlin
clones I have seen around...

Moreach, Science Groupie
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: Persona & Classes
From: jvincent@eagle.wesleyan.edu (The Ulair)
Date: 9 Apr 92 08:08:19 EST
Organization: Wesleyan University

   Arval wonders:

> Tadhg, are you arguing that a teacher is obliged to try to impart the sum
> total of her knowledge every time she teaches a class?  Or that she may not
> so much as mention a topic without providing a full explanation?  

      The teacher's obligation is contained in the word: to teach. To impart
knowledge. I wonder how a comp sci major would like it if one of their
teachers said "there's this nifty little binary tree search algorithm which
neatly avoids the problems we've just been discussing, but I won't clue you in
on it." Frustrating, no?

> class, or away from the event?  By accusing her of withholding knowledge,
> you damn her on little evidence. 

     As is the case anywhere, if you don't tell people something, they can't
know it. The facts as they are currently known to not invalidate his
hypothesis.

> She may have been trying to give her students a context for
> the poetry, by showing them how a noblewoman of that time would have fit
> into her culture.  That seems to me to be an admirable goal, and one
> particularly suited to the SCA. 

      Possibly so. However, as I have mentioned previously, there is really no
such thing as a generic person. How ONE fits into a society is not how ALL do.


> 
> Let me suggest another example: Suppose I were to teach a class on
> mathematics, from the point of view of a 14th century scholar.  Is this
> class flawed because I do not teach my students about mathematical theories
> developed after the 14th century?

      This does not seem to be the point. The point is more that to bring up
something from your time, of which you have some passing knowledge, and then
not follow it up is....irksome. I see nothing in all this indicating that the
topic was beyond their temporal sphere.

                            -Eirik
From: ag1v+@andrew.cmu.edu (Andrea B. Gansley-Ortiz)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: teaching
Date: 10 Apr 92 19:57:49 GMT
Organization: Engineering Design Research Center, Carnegie Mellon, Pittsburgh, PA

Eirik writes:

=      This does not seem to be the point. The point is more that to bring up
=something from your time, of which you have some passing knowledge, and then
=not follow it up is....irksome. I see nothing in all this indicating that =the
=topic was beyond their temporal sphere.

Let's say I (Andrea) am invited to a school or a college to give a talk
on the Army.  I can tell them a great deal in general, much about my
branch and much about my military occupation.  However, not all the 
students will be interested in just those aspects.  So I also throw
out 'teasers' that will get the students more interested and willing
to ask questions ***AND*** go to a recruiter to get more information
on some of the occupations I threw out but didn't know a lot about 
because I do not do them.

It's not intended to be 'irksome'.  It's intended to stimulate the
minds of those who are interested and get them to ask questions.

Teachers do not just 'teach'.  Their job is many things.  And some
people think it is just as important to get a student to think about
the subject as to be taught about it.

Andrea

(Note:  Sorry if this isn't as coherent as I'ld like it to be. I 
haven't been able to keep up with the Rialto because of work so I'm
a little fried.)
From: Charly.the.Bastard@f1014.n147.z1.fidonet.org (Charly the Bastard)
Sender: Uucp@blkcat.UUCP
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Why Call Light Blows?
Date: Sun, 05 Apr 1992 03:21:00 -0500

re: light vs rhino
 
You're not the only one who has this problem; rhinoleum armor abounds here in
Ansteorra.  I've watched inch-deep dents appear in 12 guage helms to the refrain
'LIGHT' more times than I can count.  This is strange, as Ansteorrans wear less
armor than most, due to the predominance of liquid air and broiler temps during
the summer.  I'm beginning to think that I'll have to actually go out and break
a few bones through the stopsign aluminum plate that some fighters carry on
their legs to get a called shot.  It's a pity, as I thought these people were my
friends.  Rest assured, I can do this, but I'd rather not. (I'm a smith by
trade, I knocked the bowling ball almost seven feet.  I computed the impact
force from that particular blow, it came up 2800 ft/lb seconds, or over five
horsepower.)  Perhaps there should be some maximum armor specifications
instituted, so the blows will hurt more, bringing forth a lighter killing call. 
Unfortunatly, the trend is for more metal plate of thicker guage.  What can I
say guy, if they won't call a reasonable blow, break some bones.  Maybe they'll
get the hint after they spend a tourney season in a body cast.  Sure takes the
fun out of it though...
 
Charly
From: branwen@cerebus.ccc.amdahl.com (Karen Williams)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: Determinate Marshalling
Date: 9 Apr 92 16:44:09 GMT
Organization: Amdahl Corporation, Sunnyvale CA

In article <1992Apr8.234158.2163@news.cs.indiana.edu> mikes@iuvax.cs.indiana.edu (Michael Squires) writes:

>Third, if the marshall is certain (and that's a difficult judgement call)
>that an apparently full-speed blow was not blocked, AND the pattern is
>repeated more than once, then the marshall should try to discuss the
>possible problem with the fighters.  

>Fourth, if a marshall sees such a pattern, and sees that the fighter who
>is throwing the blows seems to believe that they were good (most fighters
>clearly telegraph that with their body language), then the marshall needs
>to get the fighters discussing the problem, if any, before tempers flare.

I authorized in the Midrealm, then moved immediately to the West, and I
have since fought in a tourney in the Midrealm.  A major difference that
I noticed is that in the Midrealm, after a bout the marshalls come up to
the fighters and ask if they have any problems with the fight, but the 
fighters don't talk to each other. In the West, after a bout the fighters
will walk off the field together talking about the fight, asking about
problems, or talking strategy. (I was at Bunstable's two years ago, which
had over sixty fighters, and none of the fighters talked to each other
after the fight.) In fact, when I went up to an opponent after a bout in
the Midrealm to do post-fight chatting, both the fighter and the marshalls
were surprised. 

Having been a fighter in both places, I think I like the way the Westerners
do it better, since communication between fighters seems to keep the problems
down. Having the marshalls talk to the fighters adds a level of complexity
and seems to encourage fighters *not* to talk to each other.

Branwen ferch Emrys
The Mists, the West
--
                                          Karen Williams
                                          branwen@cerebus.ras.amdahl.com
"Don't whine. Warrior women speak in a husky whisper."
  -- Brat Pack #3
From: schuldy@bedford.progress.COM (Mark Schuldenfrei)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: Recreation vs. Re-creation
Date: 6 Apr 92 14:11:32 GMT
Organization: The Internet

Tomas of Bergental (the tent-peg) says, in response to Arval mentioning
the purpose of the SCA being in our "governing documents":

  I dunno. I have never seen our definition. Can you post it? Perhaps we might
  find in it a way to better follow the dream.

Gack.  He said the "D-word".  Anyway...

From the Organizational Handbook, October 1989 revision:

Articles of Incorporation Section II:

      This organization is a nonprofit public benefit corporation and is
not organized for the private gain of any person.  It is organized
under the Nonprofit Public Benefit Corporation Law for charitable pur-
poses.  The purposes for which this corporation is formed include:

      a) Research and education in the field of pre-17th-Century Western
Culture.

      b) Generally, to engage in research; publish material of relevance
and interest to the field of pre-17th-Century Western Culture; to pre-
sent activities and events which re-create the environment of said era,
such as, but not limited to, tournaments, jousts, fairs, dances, classes,
et cetera; to acquire authentic or reproduce replicas of chattels
representative of said era; and to collect a library.

      c) This corporation shall have and exercise all rights and powers
conferred upon non-profit corporations under the laws of the State of
California, provided that all activities shall be incidental to and in
the furtherance of the purposes set forth in II.a. and b. above.

  --

The By-Laws state, in Article III, OBJECTIVES AND PURPOSES:

   The Society shall be dedicated primarily to the promotion of research
and re-creation in the field of pre-17th-Century Western Culture, as
stated in greater detail in Article II of the Society's Articles of
Incorporation.

	Tibor (just keep asking them questions, and I'll end up typing
	in the whole thing.)
From: guyw@knox (Guy Wells)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: Why Call Light Blows?
Date: 16 Apr 92 13:54:22 GMT
Organization: U S WEST Advanced Technologies

Alexander of Kiev writes:
>It is especially troubling when rhino behaviour is displayed by a 
>member of the Chivalry--to say nothing of royal peers.  

The worst tournament I ever participated in was the Outland's 7 Man
Melee Tournament at TFYC. The egos involved had every fighter ratcheting
their blow level to "nuclear." A clear majority of the fighters were
belted royal peers. This is not to say that some outstanding examples of
chivalry could be seen. His Excellency (at the time, Lord) Sir Tomeki
was as fine an example as could be found anywhere. However, his example
was not followed by too many. Royal belted weebles just seemed 
omnipresent.

Jalut

-- 
--
Guy M. Wells <guyw@uswest.com>  Disclaimer: My opinions are mine, no
U S WEST Advanced Technologies  one elses, and certainly not USWEST's!