From: avg@rodan.UU.NET (Vadim Antonov)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.soviet,talk.politics.soviet
Subject: Re: SOME ASPECTS OF THE LAW FOR CITIZENSHIP OF ESTONIA
Date: 7 Oct 1992 18:26:16 -0400
Organization: Berkeley Software Design
NNTP-Posting-Host: rodan.uu.net

In article <1992Sep28.085549.21970@cs.hut.fi> f33012l@puukko.hut.fi (Janne Kivel{) writes:
>avg@rodan.UU.NET (Vadim Antonov) writes:
>>Whith 40% ethnic Russian minority and probably as much other
>>Russian-speaking minorities (Jews, Poles, Ukrainians etc)
>>shouldn't it be better to simply allow them to use their own
>>language? I think ethnic Estonians ARE the minority in Estonia.
>           ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>Is this claim once again based on Vadim's observations? Or is Vadim
>simply lying?
        ^^^^^

I wonder if all Finns are so brainwashed that they can't see the
difference between "i think" and "i claim" if the matter discussed
is human rights in Estonia. I hope not. Arrogance and personal insults
do not contribute any weight to your arguments; they only highlight your
hatred, overall deficiency in your world perception and lack of tact.

>If you make such idiotic claims like Russians, Poles, Ukrainians etc.
>being not allowed to use their language in Estonia, it would be polite towards
>the readers to state some source that supports the claim. 
>
>The only thing that some of them lack is citizenship and together
>with that the right to vote.

C'mon. I never did "idiotic claims" and never was even remotely so
arrogant as you. I also do not practicise out-of-context citation.
Ever heard that one of the requirements for citizenship in Estonia is
based on language skills?

>>I'd like to see American Indians trying to make their language
>>the "only official" language of US on the very legal claim that
>>the whole country belonged to THEM before the white-skins came.
>
>The question is: How long does the occupation have to last to legalize
>its results? Do you think what was done to the Indians was all right?
>Yes, I know it can't be undone, but still...

The Russian settlment in Estonia can't be undone either. Two generations
passed, wake up. Pinheads trying to undo history are calling for
bloodshed; it *is* evident for anybody with IQ higher than of apes.

>>After all, Russians, Poles and other minorities in Estonia aren't
>>immigrants because they are de-facto permanent residents. The
>>difference is between non-admitting (which is the standard practice)
>>and expelling (as a consequence of denying citizenship and property
>>rights). Threating at least 40% of population as people of the 
>>second sort is a good start for a "new" country.
>
>What about officers of the ex-Soviet Army, their families and retired
>Army officers? They might be de-facto permanent residents, but it wouldn't
>be too unfair if they were not admitted citizenship.

Argh. Estonia was a border state and no wonder it had higher concentration
of the Army units. And people serving in the Army weren't bloodthirsty
monsters; if you'd took a trouble to learn a bit more you'd found that
the *real* enemy (which created "commitees of social salvation" etc)
was the Estonian Communist Party. Following your logic the Estonians
served in the Soviet Army should be denied citizenship as well, right?
Oh, no, they will not because they're "purebred" (as well as Estonian
criminals which also are exempt from the future deportation). The rest
of the world usually call such practice "racism".

And, FYI, the most Russians in Estonia are professionals sent to develop
industry, medical and social workers and industrial workers; militarians
are only a tiny fraction of Russian population in Estonia.

How you're easy judging what's fair and what's unfair deciding the fate
of people you know nothing about (well, heard about from slopped TV and
read in supermarket tabloids). The spirit of Lenin still lives in Finland,
right? Or is it the common European xenophobic decay? Or may be the fear of
the Russian power emerging from the communistic self-isolation?

>I have never
>claimed the language requirement in the Estonian citizenship law is fair,
>but there needs to be a way to distinguish between those who were there
>in the role of an occupant and those who genuinely want to become citizens
>of Estonia. 

Then you needed to expell 99% of all adult population because they never
thought (and therefore never wanted) of becoming "citizens of Estonia"
ten years ago.

--vadim