HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: ae110@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Frank Bates)
Newsgroups: rec.scouting
Subject: Re: should cub scout units have campouts?
Date: 10 Jan 1993 07:18:16 GMT
Organization: Case Western Reserve University, Cleveland, OH (USA)
Reply-To: ae110@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Frank Bates)
NNTP-Posting-Host: slc10.ins.cwru.edu


In a previous article, macman@bernina.ethz.ch (Danny Schwendener) says:

>                                    ... One of the concrete effects
>is that this year, the three-day campout on Whitsuntide (May 29-31)
>will also host a cub scout pack in their own tent(s).

What is Whitsuntide?

>I was amazed at how that proposal passed so smoothly, as just six
>months ago, the voices from the troop leaders were rather critical
>on the cub and camping subject. One of the major arguments at that
>time was that campouts were one of the key events in the scouting
>program and that it wouldn't come as a surprise anymore to those
>newcomers who had campouts in their cub scout years.
>
>What is your personal opinion on that issue?
>
>Should cubs participate in co-ed campouts?

Yes.  It gives them a chance to see what Boy Scouts do, and whets
their appetite for being with the Troop.  A couple one-night campouts
will get them ready for weekend camping. 

>If yes, under what conditions?

Limited camping for Cub Scouts is good idea.  By limited, I mean
one or two campouts a year with the WeBeLoS Den Leader's.  A
campout is required for the Outdoorsman Activity Pin, I believe.
All Cubs can benefit from family camping outside of the Pack.
The WeBeLoS spend a night with the Troop in a cabin in mid-December
with a number of, but not all, fathers.  It gives me a chance, as
Scoutmaster to 'scout' out the father's for possible Scoutmaster
Assistants or Troop Committee members.

>And alternatively, should packs (or dens with older cubs) have a 
>campout on their own (as opposed to co-ed campouts with scouts)?

Yes.  Our Pack, 306 Mentor Ohio [Northeast Ohio Council] reserves
cabins in the early Spring for the boys and their fathers for one night
of camping.  Cabins provide a certain amount of roughing it and still
guarentee no problems with wet sleeping or cramp space; the fathers
are like it because there not on the ground too!  They arrive early
Saturday morning and stow their gear in the cabins.  The rest of the
morning and afternoon is spent in activities the leaders have
developed, usually scouting related.  The cubs collect firewood for a
campfire, either at the camp's fire-ring or in the dining hall
(depending on the weather).  Kitchen duties are assigned by cabin,
boys and fathers together.  After Sunday's breakfast, they pack up
and checkout.

>-- Danny Schwendener         macman@bernina.ethz.ch
>   Wolfsmeute Nidau/Glockenhof, Sihlstr. 33, CH-8001 Zurich, Switzerland
>   m.h.c. Troop 14, San Francisco            
-- 
Frank J. Bates, Jr.          Internet: ae110@Cleveland.Freenet.Edu
Society Corp. MS:01-00-0601  Vox: (216) 689-9684; Fax: (216) 689-8982 
2025 Ontario St              "We have not inherited the earth from our parents;
Cleveland OH 44115-1063       we are borrowing it from our children!"
Newsgroups: rec.scouting
From: esther@verdix.com (Esther Lumsdon)
Subject: Re: APO-L
Organization: Verdix Corp
Date: Tue, 12 Jan 1993 16:42:52 GMT

GRS03109@CONRAD.APPSTATE.EDU (*GRS9999102) writes:

>ONCE SUBSCRIPTION TO APO-L HAS BEEN CONFIRMED, HOW DO I START CORRESPON
>DING WITH THE OTHER USERS?

Hey, your capslock key is stuck!
When a subscription request to APO-L is processed by the list maintainer,
she sends a list of guidelines and procedures to each new subscriber,
which explains how to get archive material from the server, how to
correspond with people on APO-L, and how to get the FAQ.

APO-L subscribers don't see an echo of what they post to the list.
-- 
-- Esther Lumsdon, not speaking for Verdix.   esther@verdix.com
Q: How many user support people does it take to change a light bulb?
A: We have an exact copy of the light bulb here and it seems to be
   working fine.  Can you tell me what kind of system you have?
From: dsnoek@terapin.com (Daniel Snoek)
Newsgroups: rec.scouting
Subject: Cub Scout Campinng
Date: 9 Jan 93 11:37:19 PST
Organization: BBS

One of the reasons I joined Boy Scouts from cub scouts about 7 years back was
camping, an activity that Cub Scouts don't get very much of before they are
Webelos.  If Cub Scouts were given opportunities to camp more at the Cub Scout
Level, more of them would join Boy Scouts.  Some of the Boys may think that Boy
Scouts is like Cub Scouts w/ den mothers and all and decide not to join (Boy
Scouts) instead of seeing that Boy Scouts do much more outings, campings, etc.
From: mike@exucom.com (Michael Bruckheimer)
Newsgroups: rec.scouting
Subject: Should Cub Scouts go camping
Date: 12 Jan 93 06:17:27 GMT
Organization: ExuCom Multimedia Inc.
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1 PL8]


Several years ago, the first spring my son was in cubing (9 years old) our
pack held a pack Lad and Dad at a local Council camp, late May, in our own
(personal) tents. The boys were 6 or 7 through 10 and our 'brother' troop
was camped nearby. All the boys loved it and there were no difficulties
other than a nighttime temperature lower than expected (and my son's air
matress had a flat. Between that and a light weight bag, he was cold and
spent much of the night by the campfire). That summer we were assigned a
new Counci Executive who halted all non council lad and dads or other Cub
camping on Council property or BSA auspices. There was much dissent at the
roundtables (I was new to scouting except for over 20 years previous). The
Exec's response was "boys that young arent ready for camping" and BSA is
not a democratic institution. policy comes from National and you
volunteers have no voice in it." We lost several boys to Campfire and
other programs where camping is encouraged. I still do not know why my 7
year old daughter (in Brownies) is ready for camping and GSA trains
brownie leaders similar to (or more than) Cub leaders but boys of that age
are not? I am a firm supporter of Boy Scouting but not the Lawyers and
other nervous people in the professional establishment who are fearful of
a stron program and input from the membership.
>>>---> Mike
From: udsugar@impaqt.drexel.edu (David Sugar)
Newsgroups: rec.scouting
Subject: Re: Snow Camping - Klondike Derbies
Date: 9 Jan 93 05:15:38 GMT
Organization: IMPAQT Center, College of Engineering, Drexel Univ.

In article <dsnoek.35kp@terapin.com> dsnoek@terapin.com (Daniel Snoek) writes:
>For those out there that have participated in a Klondike derby that required a
>sled to be built I would like to know which way the sled moved forward.  Did
>the boys push the sled or pull the sled with ropes?
>
>Last year I led our troop with a sled that was first designed to be pulled but
>I found that pushing was much more efficient and caused less problems with rope
>tie-ups.  Our sled rode low (No more than 3 feet), was surprisingly light (two
>skies, platform a few inches above the skies and triangle side boards) and had
>a PVC pipe on the back to push.  With a light sled (out smallest scout could
>lift it) I found that pushing it was fastest and could be done by just one
>person.
>
>How have others of you made their sleds - places for scouts to push on the
>side/back or ropes to pull?

I've gone to a couple of Klondike Derbies and will be going to my next in
a couple of weeks.  As for sleds we have usually had very heavy sleds,
this wasn't on purpose but they ended up being heavy.  

A couple of things that are nice are having skies on the bottom of the
sled.  You have to make sure they don't have any metal on runners on them.
It's nice to have something sturdy because the scouts usually tend to
abuse the sled while out on the trail.  We have had some made with I'd
guess they were 6x6 pieces going from back to front held together by
2x4's.  We had  a bottom of lexan so stuff could be put in the sled and
not fall out.  Then in the back just some more 2x4's to make a place
to push with.  

As far a pushing or pulling I would suggest a little of both.  It's hard
to get everyone to push at the same time but there can be 1 or 2 people
pushing and the rest pulling.

One thing that I would suggest that you avoid doing is keep away from
wide runners.  For example one year instead of trying skies as runners
we tried just a smooth flat bottom (rounded in the front) of lexan and
this was very bad, it was hard to pull even through it wasn't that
heavy because of the friction with the ground..

  Good Luck

  Dave Sugar
  udsugar@mcs.drexel.edu
  udsugar@impaqt.drexel.edu
Newsgroups: rec.scouting
From: stolz@fnusg.fnal.gov
Subject: Re: should cub scout units have campouts?
Date: Fri, 08 Jan 93 16:18:25 EST
Organization: P.S.C.

Our Pack has 2 campouts a year.  Both are for the 'older' Webelos (4th and 5th
grade).  The one each February is a 'cabin' campout sponsored by our Boy Scout
Troop.  The April one is a Pack-only event.  In addition, our District has a
District-wide  'Woods-of-Webelos' campout each September.  The kids LOVE all
this!!  This is what Scouting is, as far as they're concerned.  For ALL of 
these outings, a parent or guardian is required for each boy.  The adult 
requirement is, I believe, BSA policy, but it also helps us leaders spot good
candidates for adult Troop leaders.  Also, the parents realize that they can
and will be expected to help out on Troop outings in the coming years.

As troop outings coordinator and Cubmastyer, my requirements are:
*) keep the outing fairly close to home (1/2 hour drive or less).
*) plan for bad weather - the Dads HATE it when it rains on them
*) check out the boys equipment before they leave the parking lot
*) keep the menus extremely easy - Hobo stew in aluminum foil is very popular
*) make sure the parents are purposely included in the weekend activities

In addition, I've been a Webelos Den leader twice, and planned Den outings in
my back yard both times.

I think Cubs should go camping - just keep the environment more controlled since
they still lack a lot of the camping skills the older boys have gained.  Insist
on parental involvement if it seems beneficial.  Include the older Troop scouts,
but I recommend you choose them carefuly - in my Troop, there are a lot of
Scouts that think Pack outings mean "PLAY TIME".  Of the 35 Troop scouts, there
are less than 10 that are on my permanent invitation list.  
 
Mike Stolz
***********************************************************************
*  BITNET: STOLZ@FNAL           INTERNET: STOLZ@FNBOOT.FNAL.GOV
*  Phone:  708-840-8060         
*  MS:     120                  Wilson Hall 8 East
*  FermiLab,  P.O. Box 500,  Batavia, IL  60510
***********************************************************************
In article <1993Jan8.020952.17320@bernina.ethz.ch>, macman@bernina.ethz.ch (Danny Schwendener) writes:
> To start off the new year, here's a new discussion topic.
> 
 ---
> What is your personal opinion on that issue?
> 
> Should cubs participate in co-ed campouts? 
> If yes, under what conditions?
> And alternatively, should packs (or dens with older cubs) have a 
> campout on their own (as opposed to co-ed campouts with scouts)?
> 
> 
> -- Danny Schwendener         macman@bernina.ethz.ch
>    Wolfsmeute Nidau/Glockenhof, Sihlstr. 33, CH-8001 Zurich, Switzerland
>    m.h.c. Troop 14, San Francisco
From: lynnef@tekig1.PEN.TEK.COM (Lynne Axel Fitzsimmons)
Newsgroups: rec.scouting
Subject: Re: should cub scout units have campouts?
Date: 8 Jan 93 18:31:18 GMT
Organization: Tektronix, Inc., Beaverton,  OR.


As a data point, here in the Columbia River Girl Scout Council, we
take Brownies (grades 1-3, ages 6-9) camping.  Usually at established
properties though.  We spent a weekend at the Scout House in Seaside
(on the Oregon coast), and have been on campouts at our Council's
resident camp.  We do seem to spend a lot of our time cooking, but that
will improve with time (probably about Junior High age!)

Actually the girls are now Junior Girl Scouts (grades 4-6, ages 10-12),
and it seems to be easier.  They are toying with the idea of doing a
long weekend in the San Juan Islands in June.  They will get to camp
in tents, which we haven't done yet.  Maybe they will all earn their
Outdoor Cook badge, and the cooking will be less stressful.
--
Lynne Fitzsimmons		lynnef@tekig1.pen.tek.com

"Second star on the right and straight on till morning" - Barrie, Pan, Kirk
From: gjh@ukc.ac.uk (Greg)
Newsgroups: rec.scouting
Subject: Re: One on one challenges [ACTIVITY]
Date: 12 Jan 93 22:11:33 GMT
Organization: Computing Lab, University of Kent at Canterbury, UK.

In article <1993Jan12.033827.15528@pony.Ingres.COM> jpk@Ingres.COM (Jon Krueger) writes:
>
>Arm wrestling, Backlift, and Leg Pull seem like fine games.
>Tractors/Tanks and Chinese Ladders do too, and they add variety,
>interest, novelty.
>
>Arm Knockout and Slaps seem wholly unsuited to Scouting values.
>Scouting competition is not combat nor the infliction of pain.

Slaps was meant to raise a wry smile :-), and was something of an afterthought.
Arm knockout however is a very good game and you should try it. Actually it
doesn't hurt and is no more violent than arm wrestling. You get a little
winded though, because you tend to fall flat on your chest rather suddenly.

Personally I am all in favour of a little competition; too many schools over
in blighty have banned competetive sports and so on and it has all gone rather
too far.  It pays to be a winner.

Here's another one; I don't have a long standing name for it and it is
impossible to describe, but I shall call it...


LEG FLIP

Andrew and Burt lie on their backs facing opposite ways, so that their two
right hand side upper bodies are in contact; they will be rotationally
symmetric. Each places his right arm across the other's belt and grabs the
belt on the opposite side. (Got that?)  They count together from one to three;
on each count, both right legs are raised to a vertical position. On three,
the legs should swing a little higher so that they interlockat the knee. By
attempting then to lower their legs, each tries to flip the other person
over. You have to try it :-)


In Scouting,
Greg

>
>-- Jon
>--
>Jon Krueger  jpk@ingres.com  
--
Greg Harewood
NMR Physics, UKC.
Subject: UK Scouting
Distribution: world
Organization: 1st Farnsfield Scouts
Date: Tue, 12 Jan 1993 00:24:40 +0000

I have just found this newsgroup as a result of a message from Alexandre 
Ershov whose son Jane is in Scouts in Dubna near Moscow.  I am a Group Scout
Leader with 1st Farnsfield, Central Nottinghamshire, UK.

If anyone wants to exchange news I hope to hear from you.

--
This Mail was brought to you by Chris Wilkinson, 15 Woodland Close, 
Farnsfield, Newark, Nottinghamshire. UK. NG22 8DN
1st Farnsfield Scout Group - Farnsfield Parish Council
Telephone UK 0623-882634 - home   UK 0602-415040 - work
From: ba432@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Richard D. Scott)
Newsgroups: rec.scouting
Subject: Allow me to introduce myself.......
Date: 13 Jan 1993 02:47:23 GMT
Organization: Case Western Reserve University, Cleveland, OH (USA)
Reply-To: ba432@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Richard D. Scott)
NNTP-Posting-Host: slc10.ins.cwru.edu

Greetings,

	I would like to introduce myself and get into the conversations
here.  I am a Scoutmaster with the Northeast Ohio Council, Lodge Adviser
for Stigwandish Lodge # 114, Order of the Arrow and also serving as the
Scoutmaster for our council's 1993 National Jamboree troop.

	Our council is currently proceeding with a consolidation with two
other Northern Ohio Councils, Western Reserve and Mahoning Valley.  The
final vote on this is scheduled for February 10.  I would be interested
inhearing from other Scouters who may have recently gone through similar
changes.  I am particularly interested in how those changes have affected
O/A Lodges.

	I am also interested in discussing the many issues facing Scouting
and Scouters. I would appreciate an opportunity to hear from others with
ideas for troop activities, games, outings as well as ways to keep older
Scouts motivated.  Thanks in advance for your reply.

Yours in Scouting,
Dick

-- 
Dick Scott, Mentor, Ohio
Scoutmaster, Troop 183, Chagrin Valley District, Northeast Ohio Council
Scoutmaster, 1993 National Jamboree Troop # 332
Lodge Adviser, Stigwandish Lodge #114, Order of the Arrow  <----<|----<<<<<
Newsgroups: rec.scouting
From: jpk@Ingres.COM (Jon Krueger)
Subject: Re: One on one challenges [ACTIVITY]
Reply-To: jpk@Ingres.COM (Jon Krueger)
Organization: Ask Computer Systems Inc., Ingres Division, Alameda CA 94501
Date: 12 Jan 93 03:38:27 GMT


Arm wrestling, Backlift, and Leg Pull seem like fine games.
Tractors/Tanks and Chinese Ladders do too, and they add variety,
interest, novelty.

Arm Knockout and Slaps seem wholly unsuited to Scouting values.
Scouting competition is not combat nor the infliction of pain.

-- Jon
--
Jon Krueger  jpk@ingres.com  
Newsgroups: rec.scouting
From: peterson@commtg3.rtp.dg.com (Kevin Peterson)
Subject: Re: Snow Camping - Klondike Derbies
Date: Mon, 11 Jan 93 11:52:14 GMT
Organization: Data General, Unix Core Development 


In the many Klondike Derbies I have been on (as a youth in
Buffalo, New York), the sleds were designed to have a number
of scouts pulling and a couple pushing.  This seemed to work 
well for us.  We always had to carry a bunch of equipment with
us to compete in the different events along the way, so needed
a heavier sled to do this.  Ours had skies on the bottom and 
the frame built with 2x4's and plywood (I think).

WWW,
Kevin
ASM, Troop 346, Raleigh, NC
--

                             ,,,
                            (o o)
------------------------oOO--(_)--OOo-----------------------
|                                                          |
| Kevin Peterson              | peterson@dg-rtp.dg.com     |
| Data General Corporation    | Research Triangle Park     |
| Tie-line: 262-6342          | (919)248-6342              |
------------------------------------------------------------
Newsgroups: rec.scouting
From: rcano@bnr.ca (Bob Cano)
Subject: Re: should cub scout units have campouts?
Reply-To: rcano@bnr.ca
Organization: BNR Ottawa, Fibre Systems Development
Date: Fri, 8 Jan 93 13:26:05 GMT

In article <1ij11iINN3bo@hp-col.col.hp.com>, kary@col.hp.com (Dan Kary) writes:
|> ...
|> and Webelos camping.  See the "Cub Scout Leader Book", pg 88
|> 
|> "Overnight camping is not authorized for younger Cub Scouts except as
|> part of family camping, and is not covered by the general liability
|> insurance program of the BSA"
|> 

Interesting.
In Canada, we are encouraged to take our cub packs (ages 8 - 10) 
camping. My pack camps 3 times per year. In late fall and winter
we sleep in cabins, in June we use tents. For out spring camp
every year in June we invite the older beavers (age 7 going on 8)
who will be in cubs in the fall. This works as an effective
recruiting technique, and the boys love it. I usually gets them
started on their merit badges also.

I think that the earlier boys (and girls) start camping the better.
With proper organization and supervision we have had no problems.     
-- 
Bob 'Akela' Cano   Bell-Northern Research    | When all else fails,   
36th Ottawa Cubs   P.O. Box 3511, Stn. C     | read the instructions.
                   Ottawa, Ontario, Canada   | 
(613)763 4086      K1Y 4H7                   |
From: kary@col.hp.com (Dan Kary)
Newsgroups: rec.scouting
Subject: Re: should cub scout units have campouts?
Date: 8 Jan 1993 19:53:33 GMT
Organization: HP Colorado Springs Division
NNTP-Posting-Host: hplsdak.col.hp.com

macman@bernina.ethz.ch (Danny Schwendener) writes:
> kary@col.hp.com (Dan Kary) writes:
> 
> >[...] The BSA liability insurance does not cover den or pack
> >camping
> 
> So much for the BSA policy. But what is your personal opinion on it?
> Assuming that the leaders are skilled in camping, should they
> be able to set up a campout with their cubs?
> 

Camping is a fun activity for people of all ages, including cubs.  The
youngest cubs (7 and 8 year olds) are too young for a Boy Scout type
camp where there are perhaps 2 or 3 leaders and 1 or 2 dozen boys.
Boys this young should have an adult companion (parent, relative, etc.).
So yes, skilled leaders should be able to set up campouts with cubs and
should include parents for the youngest cubs.

> Abseiling for example. I'm doing abseiling with my webelos once a year,
>

What is abseiling?

> they will do it anyway, particularly when they're 9-12 years old.
>                                                   ^^^^

Our Webelos are 9 and 10 year olds, 11 and 12 year olds are Boy Scouts.
Maybe this is the difference between the Swiss and BSA camping policies.
Webelos dens are allowed to have their own campouts.

> A major aspect of the weekend was that we presented activities
> from both organizations. Cub scouting in the BSA is radically
> different from cub scouting in Switzerland, and so, we learned
> a lot from each other. Needless to say that we'll be repeating the
> experience this year.
> 
> -- Danny Schwendener         macman@bernina.ethz.ch
>    Wolfsmeute Nidau/Glockenhof, Sihlstr. 33, CH-8001 Zurich, Switzerland
>    m.h.c. Troop 14, San Francisco            

Sounds like a great activity.  One of the best things about this group
and the network in general is the opportunity to learn about how things
are done differently in other countries, even though I can't travel there
to find out myself.

WWW
Dan Kary
-- 
"And that, my leige, is how we know the earth to be banana shaped."
From: kmeyer@aero.org (Kraig R. Meyer)
Newsgroups: rec.scouting
Subject: Re: Joining Ropes (was Re: Hangmans noose)
Date: 6 Jan 93 12:52:18
Organization: The Aerospace Corporation, El Segundo, CA
NNTP-Posting-Host: solarium.aero.org
In-reply-to: cdavies@ToonTown.ess.harris.com's message of Wed, 23 Dec 1992 21:45:46 GMT

cdavies@ToonTown.ess.harris.com (Charlie Davies) said:

> Just a thought to pass on to the boys on the art of "KNOTS".
> A "KNOT" is used to join the ends of A (one) rope together.
> A "BEND" is used to join 2 or more ropes together.
> A "HITCH" is used to attach a rope to something other than anthor rope.

A knot refers to any interlacement of one or more pieces of rope, and
include bends and hitches (according to Webster's 9th).


Regarding the hangman's noose, I learned it from my Scoutmaster's son
(who taught me most of my knots).  My Scoutmaster was horrified.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------
| The opinions expressed above are my own and do not necessarily          |
| represent those of The Aerospace Corporation, El Segundo, CA.           |
|									  |
| Kraig R. Meyer		   	                 kmeyer@aero.org  |
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Newsgroups: rec.scouting,news.answers
From: uab1018@dircon.co.uk (Frank Leonhardt)
Subject: Re: Joining Ropes (was Re: Hangmans noose)
Reply-To: uab1018@ukc.ac.uk (Frank Leonhardt)
Organization: The Direct Connection on-line service, UK
Date: Sat, 9 Jan 1993 01:02:00 GMT


>A knot refers to any interlacement of one or more pieces of rope, and
>include bends and hitches (according to Webster's 9th).

A knot is something you use instead of a splice if you don't
have time to do a proper job (or don't know how to splice) :-)

-- 
--- Frank J Leonhardt -- uab1018@dircon.UUCP -- leo2@cix.compulink.co.uk -
------ London, England Tel: ++44 81 429 3047, Fax: ++44 81 868 3754 ------
Newsgroups: rec.scouting