HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: nancy@wilbur.coyote.trw.com (Nancy Jensen)
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
Subject: Re: An Insight
Date: 2 Oct 92 16:11:22 GMT
Organization: TRW Inc., Redondo Beach, CA

trzyna@CS.ColoState.EDU (wayne trzyna) writes:


>We have the dubious honor of being the generation most
>ever detached from the stars (and the birds too).  When was the last time
>you (the reader) looked at the stars?  A week ago?  A month ago?  

Not quite a week ago.  During the approach on an alpine start last
Sunday morning, my partner and I paused to observe that we could see
(countable quantities of) stars reflected on the surface of a tarn.

-Nancy
From: trzyna@CS.ColoState.EDU (wayne trzyna)
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
Subject: Re: being safe in the woods
Date: 29 Sep 92 16:31:14 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: Colorado State University, Computer Science Department

In article <q#+pfqk.royg@netcom.com> royg@netcom.com (Roy H. Gordon) writes:
>
regarding the novel/movie Deliverence:
>Dickey's vigorous but poetic prose style makes for interesting reading.
>To me John Voigt and Ned Beatty stand out in the movie, as do the two
>truly terrifying, to me anyway, back country people.  Dickey is great
>in his small role as sheriff.  But I guess this is pretty much digressing...

I liked the banjo player, the character, the portrayal, and, of course,
the music.  Both the banjo player and the shuttle driver did an stellar
job of getting the movie rolling, introducing the notion of wide cultural
differences, and in the case of the banjo player, well-honed non-technological
skills, both key themes.

Was the banjo player in the novel?


-- 

-Wayne Trzyna
 trzyna@CS.ColoState.EDU
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
From: alan@elroy.Jpl.Nasa.Gov (Alan S. Mazer)
Subject: Re: North Face Bullfrog
Organization: Image Analysis Systems Group, JPL
Date: Tue, 29 Sep 1992 20:30:14 GMT

In article <Bv5KJ4.1Fp@acsu.buffalo.edu> v206gb6c@ubvmsb.cc.buffalo.edu (PauL M SchwartZ) writes:
>    I have two similar NF tents, the Firefly (pre-NHP) and the Tadpole.

Ditto for me, that is, I have an old Firefly with no problems.  I've never 
been in really bad wind (although it has kept me warm in some bad cold), but
I've heard that they're quite stable.
-- 
 
-- Alan                        # Mountain Dew and doughnuts...
   ..!ames!elroy!alan          # because breakfast is the most important meal
   alan@elroy.jpl.nasa.gov     # of the day.
From: mikeq@freddy.CNA.TEK.COM (Mike Quigley)
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
Subject: Re: Encountering contraband in the backcountry
Date: 5 Oct 92 17:29:27 GMT
Article-I.D.: master.3705
Distribution: usa
Organization: Tektronix, Inc., Redmond,  OR.

>>So, has anybody on this network ever had such an encounter?  Do you know of
>>any friends who have died 'mysterious deaths' in the backcountry?

We encounter a bunch of Jesus Freaks on the Main Salmon once who threatened
us with bodily harm and eternal damnation for our nudity. They were camped
about half mile upstream. A couple of us sat up all night armed with
a .45 automatic just in case. Nothing happened. Darn it!

Figured it was some kind of fundi cult. Maybe they ended up drinking grape
Kool Aid!!

Mike
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
From: sh666@selway.umt.edu (Jim Neighbors)
Subject: MONTANA CAMPING
Organization: University of Montana
Date: Sun, 27 Sep 1992 06:55:05 GMT

If anyone is planning on doing some backcountry in Montana and
would like some detailed info plese mail me.  I have been
'stomping' here for the past seven years and I still love it.
Best country you'll ever see....
						sh666@selway.umt.edu
From: hugh@nezsdc.icl.co.nz (Hugh Grierson)
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
Subject: Re: Animals (summary)
Date: 30 Sep 92 05:38:10 GMT
Organization: Fujitsu New Zealand

In article <1992Sep29.174838.15960@elroy.jpl.nasa.gov> pjs@euclid.jpl.nasa.gov writes:
>What, no marsupials?  Have we no readers down under?

Ok, I'll be an oppossum -- one of those flat creatures that live
on our roads.   Hmmm, on second thoughts...

Since our working definition of "animals" has been extended to include
plants and diseases, I'll extend it a little further: I'll be a rock.
Does that count?  To be more specific: I'll be that piece of molten lava
just about to destroy my ex-girlfriend's house.  Ha!

-- 
Hugh Grierson          Fujitsu/ICL New Zealand - Software Development Centre
hugh@nezsdc.icl.co.nz                Speaking for myself only.  See figure 1.
I'm a masochist -- I like a cold shower in the morning, so I take a hot one.
From: eugene@wilbur.nas.nasa.gov (Eugene N. Miya)
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
Subject: Re: Animals (summary)
Date: 1 Oct 92 00:43:51 GMT
Organization: NAS, NASA Ames Research Center, Moffett Field, CA

Okay wrapped up.  Traffic is down.  I incorped these into panel 1.

--eugene miya, NASA Ames Research Center, eugene@orville.nas.nasa.gov
  Acting Associate Editor, Software and Publication Reviews
  Scientific Programming
  {uunet,mailrus,other gateways}!ames!eugene
Seeking Books to buy:	Bongard, Pattern Recognition
			Imhof, Cartographic Relief Presentation
			Books on or by Benjamin Whorf
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
From: dp10@mc4adm.UWaterloo.ca (Derek Kirkland)
Subject: Re: Wolves : how to cope with ?
Organization: University of Waterloo
Date: Tue, 6 Oct 1992 13:10:53 GMT

Finally someone has brought up the old boogie man. "What about wolves".

Wolves are NOT a problem. They do not attack people in North America. There
has never been a documented case of a non-rabid wolf attacking a person on
this continent. There may have been this problem in Europe in the middle ages.

I watched timber wolves in Algonquin Park last fall and the only thing I
felt was awe. It was such a priviledge to see three of them.

We should leave fear of wolves to fairy tails.

 
The person who posted this question about wolves also gave some rather 
strange advise about escaping bears. They said you should run downhill so the
bear would fall and roll over. First of all, predators view anything running
as potential prey. Second, running downhill in the backcountry will have 
you tripping and falling over. I would ask the poster if he has tried his
own method using the real outdoors, with real bears?? Good luck.



n
PS. the posters advise to run downhill to escape bears seems like a bad idea.
Bears may see anything running away as prey. 
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
From: rauletta@sitevax.gmu.edu (R. J. Auletta)
Subject: More walking staffs and umbrellas
Originator: rauletta@sitevax.gmu.edu
Organization: Electrical and Computer Engineering
Date: Sun, 27 Sep 1992 01:07:37 GMT


A dual-use walking staff/umbrella misses an important point, when
it is raining is when you need most to use *both* the walking staff
*and* umbrella capability. And here in the East, that is most
of the time.

I suggest a small manual umbrella stored on the outside of the
pack (usually between frame and pack-bag) within reach for
immediate deployment.

In addition to the obvious rain protection, umbrellas have also
been used successfully to ward off bear attacks, and when deployed
and rested upside down upon the ground, they can make the only
dry spot for miles around to hold sleeping bags, lunch etc.

While walking staffs are a matter of preference, length should
be about shoulder height. The staff should be "stout", and of a diameter
that allows complete grip (finger tips almost wrapping around to
almost touch the palm when held.)  The "stout" issue is
more than an issue of strength. The staff must have enough mass and
length so that it will swing correctly, and become a natural part of the
walking gait. On level terrain this allows the staff to swing out in
front, be placed, walked by, and then swing out front again in a very
fluid motion. The staff is not swung out on every step, but
on every other step.

Notice that the staff must be smooth for at least its top half and
of a consistent diameter. The staff is not "gripped", but allowed to
slip freely, the hand sliding along the length as the staff swings
out, comes vertical, trails behind and then swings out in front again.

Such walking staffs are not found wild, but live only in hardware stores,
normally in conjunction with brooms and mops. An appropriately
sized rubber chair leg bumper, some silicone RTV, and some tung oil
and you will be in business. No paint should adorn it, no "grip"
be applied, a tight smooth grained wood should be sought.
(Don't be fooled by the metal and plastic mimics that are found in
outdoor stores, these are of a different species entirely.)

Such a staff will see you safely over hill and dale, brook and branch,
and improve your stride and pace, and when bored makes a fine way to
test hand and eye coordination. You want not a stick, but a staff.

-R J Auletta
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
From: amirza@bronze.ucs.indiana.edu (Anmar Caves)
Subject: Re: First Aid Kits
Organization: Indiana University
Date: Mon, 5 Oct 1992 19:32:52 GMT

In article <3673@master.CNA.TEK.COM> mikeq@aspen.CNA.TEK.COM (Mike Quigley) writes:
>>*syrup of Ipecac
>
>If you take Ipecac along, be sure and take a bit of activated charcoal along as
>a chaser, otherwise you'll be puking the dry heaves long after all the
>good is done. A couple tablespoons neutralizes the Ipecac, so don't take
>the charcoal along with the Ipecac.
>

Also learn what Ipecac is and how to use it.  I would not include
Ipecac in a wilderness first aid kit.  If you do not vomit it back up
you can end up with worse problems than if you hadn't taken it, Ipecac
is rather toxic.  In the wilderness you also don't have the option of
calling poison control.  If you do take it, you should know how to
keep an unconscious, or semi-conscious person from aspirating and how
to clear an airway, Ipecac my take a while to work, in the meantime
the person may go unconscious.

While what a person stocks their kit with is a matter of personal
preference, as an EMT, and as someone who has considerable hiking,
caving, and general being out in the middle of nowhere experience, I
cannot see why one would want Ipecac along.  Maybe if you are hiking
with children young enough not to know to not stick just any plants in
their mouth, if so, see above warnings.

In a home or vehicle kit is another story, there it makes sense to
have some.

-- 
Anmar Mirza   # Mayor of Dogspit, IN  #My Opinions! NotIU's! #Purveyor of
EMT-D         # Located somewhere in  # Legalize Explosives! #nontraditional
N9ISY (tech)  # the Outback of the    #I've got my own fusion#family values
Networks Tech.# Mirza Ranch.C'mon over#plant. Just ask me.   #Space For Rent
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
From: paale@stud.cs.uit.no (Paal Ellingsen)
Subject: Re: Corrective Lenses
Keywords: Contacts, glasses
Organization: University of Tromsoe, Norway
Date: Mon, 28 Sep 1992 10:15:51 GMT

egedi@ahwenasa.cis.upenn.edu (Dania M. Egedi) writes:
> Here's one for the general populace:  If you need corrective lenses, do you
> wear your contacts in the backcoutnry, or do you go with glasses?

I use contacts, no doubt. You can't lose them or break them. The weight is
negligible. They don't get foggy or dirty, and I also have lenses with UV-filter
so I don't have to bring sunglasses.
  
> If contacts,
> how do you clean them, etc?  Do those with glasses always carry an extra 
> pair?
> How about the ones with contacts?

Depends. If I'm on a long trip (5 days ->), I usually use "extended wear
lenses". They don't cost a fortune (ca. 15$ here in Norway), and I can wear them
up to 14 days so I don't have to worry about cleaning etc.
On shorter trips I use my normal lenses, but I don't take them out to clean
them. I think most modern lenses can be worn for a few days without harming the
eyes.
The main reason why I don't like to take out my lenses on a backcountry trip is
(apart from the inconvenience) an experince I had a couple of years ago:
I was on a ski-trip, with tent. One morning I found my contacts (which I had
stored in my sleeping bag) frozen solid. Not funny!


                                                 Paal  

Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
From: andyh@chaos.cs.brandeis.edu (Andrew J. Huang)
Subject: Re: Altitude Sickness
Organization: Brandeis University
Date: Tue, 29 Sep 1992 16:38:00 GMT

In article <BvArys.KED@nntp-sc.Intel.COM> jreece@sousa.intel.com writes:
>In article <1992Sep27.175505.21341@newross.Princeton.EDU>, egs@volkl (Emin Gun Sirer) writes:
>
> 
>> 	The patient has to be closely monitored for a long while as a mild
>> case can quickly get worse and end up as HACE/HAPE.
>
>Has anyone come up with treatment for that other, less-publicized 
>condition HAFE (High Altitude Flatulent Expulsion)?  :-)

Corks.  Get real Bordeax ones since they are longer.
/andy
From: alpope@skids.Eng.Sun.COM (Alan L. Pope)
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
Subject: Re: Campground safety (was Re: No alcohol, etc in NP.)
Date: 2 Oct 92 09:08:00 GMT
Organization: Sun Microsystems
Distribution: world
Reply-To: alpope@skids.Eng.Sun.COM
NNTP-Posting-Host: skids.eng.sun.com

>In article <1992Sep22.002255.4078@news.acns.nwu.edu> vleppert@casbah.acns.nwu.edu (Valerie Leppert) writes:
>1. Do you feel obligated to carry more than your share of the weight

If the other person has problems, I'll carry.  I tend to pack light so I often have a
very light pack.  I carried 39 pounds starting weight for a week in the High Uintahs.
If someone overdoes the personal gear, I don't feel much like helping out.  For newbie's
I try to assess their gear before going in so they don't take too many kitchen sinks.
If there exists a lot of necessary gear, I consider it my responsibility to carry some
portion.

>2. Do you feel that the bulk of the responsibility for direction finding,

To each according to their need.  From each according to their ability.
Wasn't that a religoues credo?

>3. Do you avoid camping with women because they slow you down or don't take

I adore camping with women.  But I won't camp with unknowns.  I.e., I've established
their compatability (to camp with) before the trip.  Depends on the purpose of the trip.
If I need to do something ( like be all alone) with which a partner could interfere, I won't
take the partner.  Oh, and I'll go with smokers (someone earlier said ``no way''), my
bias is against intentional idiots.


---
"Entia non sunt multiplicanda praeter necessitatem" -- Earl of Occam
				AlanPope   <alan.pope@Eng.Sun.COM>

Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
From: davidg@oracorp.com (David Guaspari)
Subject: Identifying snakes
Organization: ORA Corporation, Ithaca, New York
Distribution: usa
Date: Mon, 5 Oct 1992 19:22:12 GMT

A question about identifying snakes (mainly interested in the
distinction poisonous/other):

Yesterday, on a dirt road in upstate New York, I shooed some kids away
from a snake that had 

  (a) a flat, triangular head
  (b) a heavy body

-- the standard identifying characteristics of pit vipers -- but did
*not* have

  (c) slit-like pupils (the pupils of the eyes were round, or perhaps
only seemed so from the possibly-greater-than-necessary distance from
which I studied them)

I did not experiment with the 4th differentiating sign I know, the
pattern of tooth-marks in a bite -- although I suppose one of the kids
could have come in handy (in the interests of science).

Two out of three isn't exactly science, but it was good enough for me.
Any informed opinions on what kind of snake it was?
From: vcdrrhx@gsusgi2.gsu.edu (Rich Hunter)
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
Subject: Springer Mtn. Approach
Date: 4 Oct 92 05:36:06 GMT
Organization: Georgia State University

I am looking for specific directions to the USFS 42 crossing of the 
AT that is .9 miles from Springer Mtn.  Is the road passable with a two
wheel drive car or is a 4 wheel drive necessary in early December?
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
From: ejohnso@ccu.umanitoba.ca (Eric Johnson)
Subject: Re: Bear story
Organization: University of Manitoba, Winnipeg, Canada
Date: Sat, 26 Sep 1992 04:19:40 GMT

In <1992Sep25.202900.707@csi.uottawa.ca> pete@aix1.uottawa.ca (Pete Hickey) writes:


>I just read a story in our local newspaper (Sept.23 Ottawa Citizen)
>about a five year old boy who saved his sister from a bear.
>Many of you may have seen/heard of it because its the kind of
>story that newspapers like.

For those who might not have seen the article, what makes the story remarkable
is how the kid did it.  Seems that he and his 3-year-old sister were sitting
on the dock eating the chips and salsa, when the bear showed up. The two 
children jumped into the lake, and were followed by the bear, which 
managed to snag the girl's lifejacket it it's mouth. The boy grabbed his sister
pulled her free and then proceeded to growl(!!) at the bear until it backed off
When they got back to shore, the bear followed and the boy again stood his
ground and growled at the animal until it backed off again.  The two children
then ran into their cottage, bear in hot pursuit. Their mom closed all the 
doors and called the DNR (and RCMP i think) who came and shot the bear.

The DNR guys said that the boy showed remarkable presence of mind, a massive
understatement IMHO.  Next time a five-year-old growls at me, I'll take a
second thought about messing with them.
-- 
Eric_Johnson@ccu.umanitoba.ca 
I support the NRA, because with Bush and Quayle in the White House and 
Rehnquist on the Supreme Court, the last thing I want is a population incapable
of armed insurrection - Interview Magazine
From: psilsbee@ccwf.cc.utexas.edu (Peter Silsbee)
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
Subject: Re: Where to find fall colors in the Sierra?
Summary: dumb pun, sorry
Date: 1 Oct 92 14:45:35 GMT
Distribution: ca
Organization: The University of Texas at Austin, Austin TX

In article <14807@auspex-gw.auspex.com> johnf@Auspex.COM (John Fereira) writes:
>about 7000' so the nighttime tempurature isn't too bad although you never can
>tell with the whether this time of year.  The fishing in the lakes in the

Actually, you can never tell about the whether any time of year. That's why
they call it whether...

(oh shut up. It's early and I have work to do)


Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
From: sherod@newton.Colorado.EDU (Scott Herod)
Subject: Re: Altitude Sickness
Organization: University of Colorado, Boulder
Date: Mon, 28 Sep 1992 02:09:15 GMT

In article <51400016@hpscit.sc.hp.com> rog@hpscit.sc.hp.com (Roger Haaheim) writes:
>Many years ago, MSR did a study about altitude sickness,
>headaches, et al.  As I recall (may not be accurate :^)
>the cure was drink lots of water, eat lots of carbohydrates,
>and pop antacids regularly.  Seems the problem was acidosis
>or some such, and the above helped.  Problem is, I can't
>recall whether it was "lots of carbohydrates" or the
>opposite...  Perhaps writing to MSR would elicit the
>proper remedy.

The antacid remark is curious but seems correct based on Dr. Houston's
article in this months Scientific American.  I live at 5K ft. and
often hike or ski to 12k ft with several trips to 14.  I personally
have found that aspirin (as in salasomething ACID) helps with the
headache and dizziness.  I certainly agree that drinking a lot of 
water is very important.  I think the days that I feel the worst
are those after a trip when I became dehydrated (and usually forgot
to cake on enough sun screen).
Scott
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
From: jahn@guinness.Idbsu.EDU (Greg Jahn)
Subject: Re: [l/m 4/15/92] Eco-warriors		Distilled Wisdom (22/28) XYZ
Reply-To: jahn@guinness.idbsu.edu
Organization: BSU - Data Center
Date: Thu, 1 Oct 1992 15:15:03 GMT

In article <51400017@hpscit.sc.hp.com>, rog@hpscit.sc.hp.com
 (Roger Haaheim) writes:
|>> 5. Monkeywrenching is an aspect of intellectual arrogance.
|>
|>Monkeywrenching is a symptom of intellectual absence

Monkeywrenching is a symptom of a corrupt, irresponsible system.

--
Greg Jahn Boise State Univ.|'I decided to just lie low and let events
/ jahn@guinness.idbsu.edu /|take their course. Maybe that's the way
/ dosjahn@idbsu.bitnet    /|the sheep think as they are led off to the
/ (208)385-3891.thephone  /|the slaughterhouse.' On marriage, Camilo Cela
From: david@eos.ncsu.edu (JOSEPH WAYNE DAVID)
Subject: Hiking in GSMNP (Smokies)
Originator: david@c30003-2410br.mae.ncsu.edu
Keywords: Hiking
Reply-To: david@eos.ncsu.edu (JOSEPH WAYNE DAVID)
Organization: North Carolina State University, Project Eos
Date: Fri, 2 Oct 1992 15:40:33 GMT


I will be hiking in th Smokies during fall break 
(Oct. 8 - 12) and need info on shuttle service
in that area. I am starting at Cades Cove and 
finishing at Newfound Gap. Any info would be 
appreciated. 


Joe
From: trzyna@CS.ColoState.EDU (wayne trzyna)
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
Subject: Re: Wayne's world: Campground safety
Date: 28 Sep 92 21:10:41 GMT
Organization: Colorado State University, Computer Science Department

In article <1992Sep25.223654.19197@nas.nasa.gov> eugene@wilbur.nas.nasa.gov (Eugene N. Miya) writes:
>In article <Sep22.161549.87233@yuma.ACNS.ColoState.EDU>
>trzyna@CS.ColoState.EDU (wayne trzyna) writes:
>>If I was a woman hiking alone I would carry a light-weight gun and learn
>>to use it, no joke.
>
>I think it's a mixed blessing.  Be it bear or human.  With a bear
>you might be lucky, but you might only get one shot (chance), a partner
>at the USGS in fact killed a bear in Alaska which decided to charge him,

Not for the bears, but for the dangerous creatures.

>but a human can turn a gun back at you.  And that person might even terrorize
>you more.

This falls under the "learn to use it" category, as does not flaunting
it unnecessarily.  A gun is no guarantee of safety, though.  It could
cause more harm than good.

>>I would be curious to know how frequent are actual incidents of backcountry
>>sexual harrassment.  One comforting thought is that the difficulty of
>>backcountry access tends to filter out the greatest slobs, who might be
>>more inclined to such behaviour.  This is just a guess.
>
>Well I can get some stats, but people might not want to know.  Let me know.
>I can tell you Yosemite typically has 1-2 murders a year, mostly in
>the Valley, but still in the Park.  Rapes numbered 3-4 per year when I
>lived there and that may be 6-8 now.  Straight harassment might not
>be counted, but I can ask at my next meeting in October.

I think you'll agree this is not really back-country.  If I was a woman,
I wouldn't go to Yosemite alone without sherman tank.  But what do I know?
I've never been there.

-- 

-Wayne Trzyna
 trzyna@CS.ColoState.EDU
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
From: chris@engineer.mrg.uswest.com (Chris Fedde)
Subject: Re: Sleeping bag advice/recommendation
Organization: USWEST Marketing Resources
NntpPostingHost: engineer.mrg.uswest.com
Date: 03 Oct 92 05:25:08 GMT

In article <1992Oct1.171751.1197@oracle.us.oracle.com> krshah@us.oracle.com (Kalpak Shah) writes:
>
>I am currently evaluating different sleeping bags but am having a hard time
>to decide on which fill material, shell material etc.
>

I have two bags.  A Windy Point three season bag, I forget the style
name.  And an old one season down bag (Camp 7 I think).  I use the three
season for spring & summer.  In the winter I put the down inside the
synthetic.  I find this combination to be quite comfortable in cold
wether.  I have tried to use the down alone in warm weather but if it
rains at all I have a soggy sleeping bag.  Even a little moisture makes
it uncomfortably chilly.

	chris

 
Chris Fedde, USWEST MRG, chris@mrg.uswest.com, voice 3037842823