HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.seasia-l
Date:         Sun, 11 Oct 1992 10:34:00 EDT
From:         AWALKER@OHSTMVSA.BITNET
Subject:      BACK NUMBERS OF CONTRIBUTIONS TO SOUTHEAST ASIAN ETHNOGRAPHY

ALL BACK NUMBERS OF CONTRIBUTIONS TO SOUTHEAST ASIAN ETHNOGRAPHY  ARE
STILL AVAILABLE.
Each number of this journal is devoted to a specific theme.  Since thwe
first number in 1982, these themes have been as follows:
    No. 1. Studies of Ethnic Minority Peoples, A.R. Walker, ed.
    No. 2. Studies in Chinese Folk Religion in S'pore and M'sia, J.R.
Clammer, ed.
    No. 3. Ethnicity & Local Politics in M'sia, Tan Chee Beng, ed.
    No. 4. Studies of Resource Utilization, A.R.Walker, ed.
    No. 5. Studies of Religions and World Views, A.R. Walker, ed.
    No. 6. Studies in Urban Anthropology, J.R. Clammer, ed.
    No. 7. Further Studies of Religins & World Views, A.R. Walker, ed.
    No. 8. Between Worlds: Studies of Sacred Elites, Tong Chee Kiong &
Anne L. Schiller, eds.
    No. 9. Chinese Folk Religion in SE Asia, Tan Chee Beng, ed.
Cost of volumes:  1-3, 6 $10.00; 4-5,7-9 $12.00.  Postage is $1.00 for
first book and 50 cents for each additional book.  Send checks payable
to "CONTRIBUTIONS TO SOUTHEAST ASIAN ETHNOGRAPHY" to Contributions to
Southeast Asian Ethnography, The Ohio State Univ., 217B Lord Hall,
124 W. 17 Av., Columbus, Ohio 43210-1364.
With threatned removal of university financial support due to the hard
times we are going through, all support for this journal is thoroughly
appreciated!     Anthony Walker, Editorial Office, Columbus. Ohio.
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Date:         Thu, 8 Oct 1992 16:51:13 -0400
From:         Nhan Tran <tran@PEORA.SDC.CCUR.COM>
Subject:      NEWS/VN: signs labor agreement with Russia

10/06

VIETNAM SIGNS LABOR AGREEMENT WITH RUSSIA

HANOI (OCT. 6) PAC RIM NEWS NETWORK - (VNA report from October 2) Vietnam and
Russia have signed an agreement on the principles concerning the sending and
reception of Vietnamese citizens to work in enterprises in Russia, and a
protocol on the amend- ments to the agreement signed on April 2, 1981 between
Vietnam and the former Soviet Union relating to the sending and reception of
Vietnamese citizens to follow job-training courses or to work in enterprises
and organizations in the Soviet Union.

Signatories to the two documents were Russian Vice- Minister of Labour I.V.
Khalevinski, and Vietnamese Vice-Minister of Labour, Invalids and Social
Affairs Ms. Nguyen Thi Hang who led a delegation on a working visit to Russia
from Sept. 26 to Oct. 1.

The agreement provides for direct contracts on labour supply between Vietnamese
economic organisations and their Russian counterparts.

The protocol provides for Russia's continued implementation of the signed
agreement and readjustments to the salaries already paid by Russian economic
organisations to Vietnam and Vietnamese workers.

The Russian side also assured Ms. Nguyen Thi Hang that it will guarantee
conditions for Vietnamese workers to complete their labour contracts.

The Vietnamese delegation was later received by Russian Deputy Prime Minister
V.A. Makharadze and Labour Minister G.G. Melikyan.

>From VNA in English
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Organization: Central Michigan University
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.seasia-l
Date:         Sun, 11 Oct 1992 05:33:01 EDT
From:         Elliott Parker <3ZLUFUR@CMUVM.CSV.CMICH.EDU>
Subject:      Re: FAKE MESSAGE

On Sun, 11 Oct 92 00:33:31 EDT you said:
>
>   I was very angry and disappointed to find that someone who presumably
>disliked my views on several things sent a fake message to seasia-l
>under my name. [ This is not very difficult to do with SMTP ].
>I just want to make this clear to everybody --- I did NOT send the
>message "manage your hometown" dated 1992.10.10.22.33.50 (-04.00) !
>
>
>   Warning for others : E-mails are VERY EASY to fake [I personally
>know how to do that, although I never tried], all we could hope for
>is that people will behave in a decent (unlike the person who sent
>the message) manner in the net, and out in the world.
>
    We will try to find the offenders and the appropriate systems
admin will be informed.  As an historical note, this has happened
at least once before and that person (a computer science major; now
a former cs major) was barred from using any network resources.  I
hope this happens again.

========================================================================
Elliott Parker                   Bitnet: 3ZLUFUR@CMUVM
List Owner, SEASIA-L             Internet: 3zlufur@cmuvm.csv.cmich.edu
Department of Journalism         Less certain possibilities:
Central Michigan University        eparker@igc.apc.org
Mt. Pleasant, MI 48859 USA         CompuServe: 70701,520
Office tele: +1 (517) 774-3196     The WELL: eparker@well.sf.ca.us
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.seasia-l
From: jorgensen@vaxr.sscl.uwo.ca
Subject: BOUG/PNG
Organization: Social Science Computing Laboratory
Date: Thu, 8 Oct 1992 14:13:19 GMT

BOUG/PNG -- News request

Does anybody out there have anything current on the Bougainville crisis?
I haven't seen a posting for a while, and my most recent looks at PNG news-
papers [about a month out of date] suggest that the BRA has broken up and
that PNG security forces think they'll have the island shortly under control.

Can anybody add to or correct this?

Dan Jorgensen          			jorgensen@vaxr.sscl.uwo.ca
Department of Anthropology
University of Western Ontario
London, Ontario, CANADA

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Newsgroups: bit.listserv.seasia-l
Date:         Thu, 15 Oct 1992 23:46:01 EDT
From:         Peter Brosius <PBROSIUS@UGA.BITNET>
Subject:      Seeking info on Malaysian environmental issues

I am in the early stages of a project examining the rhetoric of the debate
over deforestation and indigenous rights in Sarawak, East Malaysia.
Specifically, I am attempting to statements by either environmentalists or
state/federal government officials on logging and it's effects on the Penan of
Sarawak.  Can anyone suggest where I might track down such statements.  I
already have most of the published sources on this - books, newspapers, etc.
I am particularly interested in locating footage of interviews with Malaysian
officials or environmentalists during the Rio Summit or at other times when
government delegations or delegations of environmentalists have visited the
US, Europe, Japan, or elsewhere.  I know the media have covered these events,
and wonder whether any of you might know how to track down such things.  I am
also seeking info on the ministerial conference in KL that preceeded Rio.  Any
suggestions from netters out there would be most welcome.

                                          Pete Brosius
                                          Department of Anthropology
                                          University of Georgia
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Newsgroups: bit.listserv.seasia-l
Date:         Mon, 12 Oct 1992 20:47:58 -0500
From:         Max Becherer <becherer@SUNA0.CS.UIUC.EDU>
Subject:      ???????????

       Does anyone know what is going on here ?  Three letters I posted over a
week ago have been reposted.  All of these were sent when the msu listserver
was down, and wound up in my dead letter file.  I reposted them a little later
when the server was repaired (over a week ago), and here they are again.  I
did nor repost them.  If anyone can explain this, I would appreciate it so this
can be avoided in the future.   Thanks

                            Max Becherer
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Newsgroups: bit.listserv.seasia-l
Date:         Thu, 8 Oct 1992 16:55:05 -0400
From:         Nhan Tran <tran@PEORA.SDC.CCUR.COM>
Subject:      NEWS/VN: passes law to strengthen court system

10/06

VIETNAM PASSES LAW TO STRENGTHEN COURT SYSTEM

    HANOI, Oct 6, Reuter - The Vietnamese National Assembly approved a law on
Tuesday aimed at strengthening the courts and ending corruption in the legal
system, assembly sources said.
    Deputies also debated amendments to a controversial land law to give people
more control over plots leased from the government, an official newspaper
reported.
    The "Law on the Organisation of the People's Court" was approved by 372 of
the 381 deputies present at Ba Dinh National Assembly Hall, following several
days of debate.
    No text was immediately released, but Vietnamese familiar with earlier
drafts said the law would give the courts new power by outlining more clearly
their authority and responsibilities.
    Residents in Hanoi and Ho Chi Minh City have complained lawbreakers have
been able to buy their way out of their legal troubles in the embryonic court
system.
    Deputies also discussed proposed changes to the land law, which took effect
in 1988, to facilitate inheritance and rental, the Evening News newspaper said.
    The law, provided a legal framework to agricultural reforms launched in the
mid-1980s which allowed peasants to lease land from the state, grow the produce
they wanted and sell it on the open market in contrast to the former
collectivised system.
    While all land still officially belongs to the state, that new freedom
transformed Vietnam from a rice importer to the third biggest rice exporter in
the world by 1989.
    But land use has remained a topic of debate, with Vietnamese companies now
renting government land to foreign companies for large profits, and families
quickly erecting houses all around Hanoi and other cities to try to establish
ownership.
    The government says it encourages overseas investment, but foreign
businessmen say they will feel insecure about certain investments in Vietnam
until private land ownership is legalised.
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From: apakabar@IGC.APC.ORG (Indonesia Publications/Task Force)
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.seasia-l
Subject: IN: US Senators: Release Fernando
Date: 15 Oct 92 17:27:46 GMT
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU

Source: Original document.
Original language: English.
Date: 5 October 1992.
Dateline: N/A.
Byline: Signatories.
Story type: Letter to President Suharto.
Scope: Unabridged.
Headline: N/A.
Remark: A newsworthy letter which does not seem to have made
        'the news' in the US.  Often, such information appears
        only in the Indonesian press.


United States Senate
Washington, DC 20510

October 5, 1992

Dear President Suharto:

  We are writing to express our concern about the arrest and detention
of Fernando de Araujo, an Amnesty International prisoner of conscience
and a 1992 recipient of the Reebok Human Rights Award.

  Last November 24, Mr. de Araujo was arrested in his home and charged
with subversion.  The charges were based on his leadership role in
organizing non-violent protest demonstrations in response to the Santa
Cruz massacre in Dili twelve days previously.  Mr. de Araujo has been
sentenced to nine years in prison despite the lack of any evidence that
he has advocated, or engaged in, violent activities against the state.

  We appeal to you and to your government to recognize the right of
individuals to express peaceful dissent to government policies
and to demonstrate this recognition through the immediate release
of Fernando de Araujo from prison.

  Thank you for your consideration of our views.

Sincerely,

John Kerry, US Senator
Edward Kennedy, US Senator
Joe Moakley, Member of Congress
Claiborne Pell, US Senator
Alan Cranston, US Senator
Patrick Leahy, US Senator



John A. MacDougall                  Email: apakabar@igc.apc.org (Internet)
Editor, Indonesia Publications       or apakabar@access.digex.com (Internet)
Editor, Southeast Asia Publications Fax: 301-552-4465
Coordinator, Task Force Indonesia   Post: 7538 Newberry Lane
                                     Lanham-Seabrook, MD 20706 USA

Permission to re-post automatically granted unless otherwise specified
in this message.  Private email should not be re-posted without explicit
permission.
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Newsgroups: bit.listserv.seasia-l
Date:         Fri, 9 Oct 1992 14:21:00 EDT
Comments:     <Parser> W: TO field duplicated. Last occurence was retained.
From:         EEMOISE@CLEMSON.BITNET
Subject:      Re: VN: Book review: Chinese in VN

I HAVE SENT THIS MESSAGE BOTH TO VWAR-L AND TO SEASIA-L.  IF YOU
BELONG TO BOTH LISTS, DON'T WASTE YOUR TIME READING BOTH MESSAGES.

On Thu, 8 Oct 1992 18:42:24 EDT Elliott Parker <3ZLUFUR@CMUVM.CSV.CMICH.EDU> sai
d:
> Source: F.E.E.R. 7/9/92
> Review written by: Diana Martin
>
> "The Ethnic Chinese in Vietnam and Sino-
> Vietnamese Relations"  by Ramses Amer. Forum
> Petaling Jaya.  US$10
>
> A brief outline of the thousand years when Vietnam was part of China sets
> the subsequent events in historical context. After that period, Vietnam
> remained a vasal of China, then colonisation by the French in the 19th
> century was followed by the American presence until the last quarter of the
> 20th century. Finally, a mere 15 years ago, after a stormy and bloody
> battle, Vietnam gained national unity and independence.

    Somebody, either the author of the book or the author of the
review, is exaggerating slightly the historical relationship between
China and Vietnam.

    China ruled Vietnam for a thousand years, but I think the phrasing
in the review, "Vietnam was part of China", implies more assimilation
than actually occurred.
    At the end of those thousand years, in 939 AD, Vietnam gained
real independence.  An intermittent tributary relationship remained,
but the suggestion in the review that this represented vassalage
is a serious exaggeration.  Chinese emperors who attempted to
intervene militarily in Vietnam were taught very forcefully by the
Vietnamese that this was a bad idea.
    The Vietnamese have enjoyed national independence for most of
the past thousand years.  They enjoyed national unity within
approximately today's borders, along with national independence, from
1802 up to the beginning of the French conquest.

Ed Moise
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X-Vmsmail-To: SMTP%"seasia-l@msu.edu"
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.seasia-l
Date:         Fri, 9 Oct 1992 01:20:46 -0700
From:         "(Ferry 'Dr Pepper' Siamena)" <SIAMENA@ENVMSA.EAS.ASU.EDU>
Subject:      Response on ET

Dear Carl, Max and Charles,


I strongly agree with Mr. Ruby on his latest posting.

Why don't you guys mind your own business.


No, I am not trying to change the topic.

I am just asking you to stop for a moment  and  look  at  the speck at your

very own eyes.	    You see now.

There are a lot of things that need to be fixed here.

Yes here !  The United States of America.

Have  you  done  anything against the KKKs or Skinheads or any racial group

in the United States of America ?  None.

Don't you think that those racial groups have violated Human  Rights for so

many years ?	    If so, why don't you do something about it ?

What you peaceniks  have  been  doing  is  sniffing  around,  minding other
		  :)
countries' businesses.  You cannot even tackle the problem in your very own

household.


As far as I know, the majority of the people in Indonesia is happy with the

government or what you called 'regime'.  You can call it any name you want,

as long as you  keep those names for yourself and let it rot inside you.
							    :)
Maybe not every citizen is happy with the government of Indonesia,  but can

you  name  me  a  country  in  which  all its citizens are happy with their

government  ?    You bet. None. Not even  here  in  the  United  States  of

		 America. Not even in a superpower country.



By the way, did  you guys do any effort to rebuild the City of Angels after

the riot ?   Wasn't that riot a total violation of human rights ?

What have you done ?

Cry Peace and Human Rights ,  maybe.	:)



So, let us end this dispute Peacefully.

I advise you guys  to  manage  your  own households properly and tackle any

problems in your own local community.

Then maybe we can take your advice.

Advice, not Pressure.	 { Nobody likes pressure, you know. }



Smile.  Life is not so bad after all.



Yours sincerely,
Ferry Siamena
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X-Envelope-to: SEASIA-L@MSU.BITNET
X-VMS-To: IN%"SEASIA-L@MSU.BITNET"
X-VMS-Cc: CTROCKI
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.seasia-l
Date:         Wed, 7 Oct 1992 08:30:00 EDT
From:         "Carl A. Trocki" <CTROCKI@GUVAX.BITNET>
Subject:      Re: Woooowww....wooooowww

Dear M.Parikesit
        You ask a very good question.  Not being a Timorese, I really
can't answer what you ask.  But, perhaps you should ask yourself the
same question.  Why did the Indonesian people want to be independent
from Holland?  Timor has been a separate entity for hundreds of years
and it has little in common with Indonesia.
        If Timor is so poor, why does Indonesia want it?  I hear that
Indonesia already has many poor people, why do they want more, and why
do they wish to waste more of their money trying to dominate people
who only want to be free?
                        Carl
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Newsgroups: bit.listserv.seasia-l
Date:         Wed, 7 Oct 1992 08:59:00 -0400
From:         Djoko Wirosoetisno <djoko@RAINBOW.PHYSICS.UTORONTO.CA>
Subject: Re: Woooowww....wooooowww

   I haven't seen many inntelligent comments from Indonesians on
this East Timor issue, so here's my .0001% worth :

>    I need to ask two questions concerning these East Timor ordeal, just
>    to get a clearer picture ;
>
> 1. Why does the East Timorese is so persistent (like you say)
>    to be independent.

   Some East Timorese want to have their own country, some, however want
be part of Indonesia. We don't know what the majority opinion is because
before they had a chance to vote on this very important issue Jakarta
ordered its army to invade the region.

>    What are the benefit for them as an Independent country,

   Whether they wold be better off as an independent state or not is not
an issue, what matters is the right of a people to determine their own
future --- this is in the preamble to the Indonesian constitution, BTW.
The issue is the right to self-determination, which I hope every
Indonesian believe.

> and why being Indonesian is so bad for them ?

   I assume you're Indonesian, so let me ask you this question :
If the US invaded Indonesia, would you happily disown your identity
as an Indonesian and call yourself an American instead ? Their standard
of living is higher than Indonesia's after all.
   I would much rather keep my Indonesian citizenship, if you're
interested.

> 2. What do they have to live on as an Independent country ?

   Again, this is _not_ the issue. If they voted to be independent,
they would have to worry about their resources themselves. There is
no justification for Indonesia, according to international and
Indonesian laws, to `rescue' these poor people by occupying their land.

   - Djoko.
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Newsgroups: bit.listserv.seasia-l
Date:         Tue, 6 Oct 1992 17:20:43 -0500
From:         Max Becherer <becherer@SUNA0.CS.UIUC.EDU>
Subject:      Re: Woooowww....wooooowww

M. Parikesit writes...

>    I need to ask two questions concerning these East Timor ordeal, just
>    to get a clearer picture ;
>
> 1. Why does the East Timorese is so persistent (like you say)
>    to be independent.

 I personally do not know all the details, but certainly Indonesian
 oppression of their culture plays a role.  Perhaps, if the Indonesian
 government treated the East Timorese people less like animals and more
 like human beings, they would be less insistant on being independant.
 Ask an East Timorese.

>    What are the benefit for them as an Independent country, and

 Not having their culture destroyed sounds like quite a benefit to me.

>    why being Indonesian is so bad for them ?

 Let me rephrase the question: Why would being Portugese be so bad
 for the Indonesian people ?

>
> 2. What do they have to live on as an Independent country ?

 Not much, but then again, a tiny island like East Timor doesn't need
 much; there are scores of small island nations which seem to do just
 fine. Besides, East Timor isn't getting anything of value from being
 a part of Indonesia anyway.


>
>
> Waiting for your reply,
> M. Parikesit,   mparikes@cs.indiana
>




Refer comments, suggestions, flames to

                 Max Becherer    becherer@cs.uiuc.edu

       Nothing Evil lasts forever -- the Future belongs to the Free.
From: 2huxvalved@kuhub.cc.ukans.edu
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.seasia-l
Subject: re: On East Timor (q)
Date: 15 Oct 92 16:16:47 GMT
Organization: University of Kansas Academic Computing Services


  A Portugese wrote:

>The fundamental question is:

>1.  Do you consider all the peoples in the world have the same right 
>	to freely determine their own future?

     How if some people in your "beloved" country say "WE WANT 
TO DECIDE OUR OWN FUTURE SO WE WANT TO CREATE A NEW COUNTRY!"?
You answer it. My point is they have right (only right my friend)
You also have right to take shit in bush in your city garden!.
But whether they are RIGHT or WRONG is another matter and
the most important thing. God knows what's RIGHT and what's WRONG.
The RIGHT or WRONG stuff can be approached by education. YES..EDUCATION. 
So ask those rebels to go down the hill and go to school. 
 
>[If you say NO, you can stop reading this message].
  
    I said neither YES nor NO. So....up to me?

>2.  If yes, how do you considerer we can unambigously determine the 
>	will of a people with respect to this right?

        Yeah..RIGHT again....

>Please, e-mail directly to me

       Why? Are you still in the bush ?

>(pires@vxcern.bitnet or pires@vxcern.cern.ch)


>Thank you,

  Your welcome

>Rui

  Jancuk Kowe
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From: GMESHER@ARIZMIS.BITNET
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.seasia-l
Subject: RE: Seeking info on Malaysian environmental issues
Date: 16 Oct 92 17:34:00 GMT
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Original_To:  BITNET%"SEASIA-L@MSU.BITNET"

Try tracking down the film (video) "Tongtana" it's  about the story of a
Swiss-German who wa living with the Penan in Sarawak, and it's very good,
and even includes interviews with Datuk James Wong, the Sarawaki Minister
for the Environment, who is also the region's largest exporter of forest
products.

You might also try sending a politely worded e-mail message to:

        postmaster@jaring.ism.my

I was in Malaysia in Sept., and while there read a newspaper article which
included an interview with Dr. M. on the environment.  To him, environmental
problems basically equalled pollution, and he recognized this as a problem,
but there is a very strong reaction against what the Malaysians consider
first world pressure on them to "sacrifice people for trees", so that
simply protecting undeveloped areas, is not viewed as a desirable
alternative.  It should be added however, that there is a Malaysian Nature
Society, and there are also about a dozen national parks and protected
areas throughout Malaysia, about half of them in Sarawak, although to
me it is only as drop in the bucket...
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