HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: ldh@svl.cdc.com (Lawrence D. Hare)
Newsgroups: rec.food.veg
Subject: Re: Egg substitute.
Date: 29 Sep 92 16:51:08 GMT
Organization: Control Data Systems
X-UserAgent: Nuntius v1.1.1d9
X-XXMessage-ID: <A6EDD77255030456@ethelred.svl.cdc.com>
X-XXDate: Tue, 29 Sep 92 09:50:42 GMT

In article <9209222242.AA20617@hadar.fai.com> Robi Bisesarji,
balajiv@hadar.fai.com writes:
>absolutely necessary to add eggs in the pizza dough?

Pizza does not have eggs in it. I lived in Italy for 6 years and married
one of their magnificant women, believe me - pizza no 'avva da egg.

Now the exceptions... Well, America obviously. Nothing stays unfiddled
with for long over here (not a complaint - not a complaint ;-)

In Sicily we found "Pizzeria Bianca Neve", (Snow White's Pizza House)
which is still my all-time favorite pizza house. It is on the south
slopes of Mount Etna and still exists, I believe, despite the volcano.
They had a pizza with egg - but the egg was on top, not part of the dough
or anything funny like that! Incredible stuff.

But there are exceptions to everything. The best pizza is Pizza Marinara,
just basic dough, tomatoe and garlic, oil, spices. Very simple and
utterly delicious.
--
Lawrence D. Hare       Control Data - Silicon Valley Operations
Consultant             Voice: (408) 496 4339 - C/N [234] 4339
ldh@svl.cdc.com        Mail: SVLa60  FAX: (408) 496-4106
Newsgroups: rec.food.veg
From: terra@athena.mit.edu (Terra Incognita)
Subject: Re: Kosher gelatin
Organization: MIT - DMSE and Bait
Date: Thu, 1 Oct 1992 13:00:42 GMT

In article <1992Sep30.220046.15034@ucselx.sdsu.edu> maxc0452@ucselx.sdsu.edu (Legene) writes:
>
>  Hi!  I'm a lacto-ovo vegearian.  I was eating some yogurt (that's my
>effort toward political correcness for the year) and noticed that it
>had "kosher gelatin" as one f the ingredients. Did a horse die just so I could
>eat yogurt?  I really don't like it *that* much!

Well, horses are definitely not kosher :-)
I believe "kosher gelatin" is from plant sources & therefore okay for
vegetarians.  I hope someone corrects me if I'm wrong, because I'm
trying to keep a kosher as well as a vegetarian diet!

BTW, the "real" cultured yogurts that don't use gelatin as a thickener
are better, anyway, if you can find them and afford them.
--
Terra Incognita                             terra@athena.mit.edu
Massachusetts Institute of Technology, Cambridge, MA    USA
"Work. Worry. Consume. Die. It's a wonderful life." (Lippy)

Newsgroups: rec.food.veg
From: was@ils.nwu.edu (Wayne Schneider)
Subject: Re: Vegetarian Caters
Followup-To: rec.food.veg
Organization: Institute for the Learning Sciences
Date: Fri, 2 Oct 1992 13:39:54 GMT

In article <BvG8sD.5u5@uxa.ecn.bgu.edu>, xmpp@uxa.ecn.bgu.edu (Melody Paul)
wrote:
> 
> I need a good caterer specializing in vegatarian meals for my wedding
> reception, does anyone have some suggestions.  I live in Chicago and
> we are on a tight budget $1500 is the max I want to spend.
> 

The _Chicago Sun-Times_ Food section last Thursday (24 Sept.) featured
ideas for vegatarian weddings on its front page, including a list of
caterers.  Names don't spring to mind (except for the Blind Faith Cafe in
Evanston, and I'm not sure they cater).  I'm sure you could look it up at
any public library.

Now if someone could only point me in the direction of a vegetarian
caterer/retauranteur in Rochester, NY, where my wedding is planned...

   wayne

Wayne A.
Schneider------------------|-----------------------------------------
Institute for the Learning Sciences | "O Koenigin, das Leben ist doch
schoen!"
1890 Maple Ave., Evanston, IL 60201 |                - Friedrich Schiller
was@ils.nwu.edu---------------------|-----------------------------------------
From: howard@iscsvax.uni.edu
Newsgroups: rec.food.veg
Subject: Re: cow's milk
Date: 2 Oct 92 09:36:11 -0500
Organization: University of Northern Iowa

In article <mathieu.718031351@gdim>, mathieu@geod.emr.ca (Pierre Mathieu) writes:
> young@serum.kodak.com writes:
> 
>>>a non-profit association of 2,000 doctors
> 
>>	...which is .005% of U.S. physicians...
> 
> Let's see now. By that figure, there are 40 million physicians in the U.S!
> I thought the medical profession suffered from overpopulation in the U.S.
> but this is amazing!! :-) 
> 
>>-Rich Young (These are not Kodak's opinions.)
> --

I understood that PCRM had about 2,000 members but only a small proportion
of these members are actually doctors. Does anyone have the proportion
of doctors, nutritionists, and other medical persons in the membership 
of this group?

My local television station (KWWL in Waterloo), was also reporting yesterday
that Dr. Spock had expressed concern for the use of antibiotics in 
dairy cows. They even went out and interviewed a local dairy farmer, 
who said that he is required to discard the milk a certain number of
days after administering the antibiotics. But I don't see this in 
any of the articles posted so far, so I'm wondering whether Dr. Spock
or one of the other speakers actually said anything about this. 

-Mary Howard 


-Mary Howard
Newsgroups: rec.food.veg
From: music@erich.triumf.ca (FRED W. BACH)
Subject: Re: FTP site
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41    
Organization: TRIUMF: Tri-University Meson Facility
Date: Sun, 27 Sep 1992 17:46:00 GMT

In article <60633@mimsy.umd.edu>, tms@cs.umd.edu (Tom Swiss (not Swift, not Suiss, Swiss!)) writes...
> 
>     I've mentioned wanting to do this before, but I'm finally getting
>off my butt and doing it. I'm starting a vegetarian info FTP archive. Now,
>since it's on "my" disk space, I get to decide what goes it B->. I'll
>be putting up some stuff I've saved over the years. I don't plan to
>make this a recipie site - that would quickly grow unmanagably large.
>Right now the only stuff that's in there is a copy of my leather alternatives
>FAQ and a copy of Kupfer's "Animals, My Brethren."

   [ some stuff deleted]

> 
> 
>     Anyway, the FTP site is flubber.cs.,umd.edu, directory other/tms/veg.
>Feel free to poke around in the other stuff under tms, that's what it's
>there for!
> 

   Aren't all FAQ lists also supposed to go into news.answers newsgroup?
 I did a subject search for "food" and nothing showed up.

   news.answers is a wonderful group full of FAQ's from everywhere
and includes many ftp indexes and net information. Everyone should use
news.answers  (if they can get it).

  Since it is September and there are lots of novices around, it's a good
time to remind everyone of this.


 Fred W. Bach ,    Operations Group        |  Internet: music@erich.triumf.ca
 TRIUMF (TRI-University Meson Facility)    |  Voice:  604-222-1047 loc 278/419
 4004 WESBROOK MALL, UBC CAMPUS            |  FAX:    604-222-1074
 University of British Columbia, Vancouver, B.C., CANADA   V6T 2A3

 These are my opinions, which should ONLY make you read, think, and question.
 They do NOT necessarily reflect the views of my employer or fellow workers.
From: robertsl@hpcc01.corp.hp.com (Laurie Roberts)
Date: Fri, 2 Oct 1992 14:48:17 GMT
Subject: Re: what meat substitute can I use?
Organization: the HP Corporate notes server
Newsgroups: rec.food.veg

Try TVP (texturized vegetable protein) available thru Harvest Direct by 
mail or at your local Health Food Store.  When reconstituted it makes a 
great hamburger substitute - I use it in chili, sloppy joes, sauces, etc.
for a heartier dish.  It has no flavor of it's own and has little or no
fat.  Best of all, my meat-eating friends eat it up, not even realizing 
I didn't use meat!

Good Luck!

-Laurie
From: baltman@prodigal.psych.rochester.edu (Brian Altman)
Newsgroups: rec.food.veg
Subject: Mushrooms
Date: 3 Oct 92 21:37:58 GMT
Organization: University of Rochester (Rochester, NY)

I know that Shitake mushrooms contain vitamins/minerals and are
supposedly good for the immune system. But, I was wondering, do
the regular white mushrooms that I buy "bulk" contain. I don't
know the name of 'em....does anyone have any idea what the
nutritional value of these guys are? Just wondering.

-Brian
Xref: sparky rec.food.veg:9399 misc.fitness:7743
From: molnar@Bisco.CAnet.CA (Tom Molnar)
Newsgroups: rec.food.veg,misc.fitness
Subject: Re: Another question about bulking up for veggies
Date: 7 Oct 92 01:33:59 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: UTCS Campus Access

In article <1992Oct6.225422.22558@wam.umd.edu> davidcam@wam.umd.edu (David Gordon Campbell) writes:
# I have seen articles on the net in the past on  how a pencil-neck geek
# vegan like me can bulk up, i.e. add muscle mass.  Somebody gave references
# to articles in Muscle & Fitness.  Not being able to find a library near me with back issues, I was at a loss.
# 
# Are there any books out there, that might help?
# 
# I guess I could send to M & F for back issues, but frankly, I'm too cheap.  I
# kinda wanted to browse before I buy.
# 
# So, are there any books for Vegans on bulking up?  Or can someone recommend
# something else.

David, most of the articles I've read about vegetarians & bobdy building
usually just say "Guess what? You can be a vegetarian and be a body builder
at the same time."  Gold's Nutrition Bible has a chapter on the
subject, but the foods recommended include dairy.  I'm not sure if it
is possible to bulk up on a vegan diet and reach IFBB pro status but it
should be possible to put on a lot of mass.  You could just try
following the standard hard-gainer regimen for powerlifting if bulk is
the goal.  Concentrate on the basic lifts for the first 6 months and
use a powerlifting strategy.  Eat lots of nutrient dense foods like
legumes and whole grains and you should see results.  The amount of
food you eat should depend on the intensity of the workouts.  For
example (in the extreme), if you can't walk away from the squat rack
when you've finished with your 5th set, then you should eat two to
three times the amount a sedentary person would eat.  I think your best
strategy might be to get a good book on weight training and a good book
on vegan nutrition and apply the knowledge gleaned from the two.
Don't buy into the protein supplements pitch.  You won't ever need it.

Oh, lastly, I've found the quality of information in Muscle & Fitness
to be rather poor -- Ironman magazine is usually superior in that
respect.

If you have any further questions, I'll be happy to share what I have
learned through experience offline.

Regards, 
Tom
Organization: Doctoral student, Engineering and Public Policy, Carnegie Mellon, Pittsburgh, PA
Newsgroups: rec.food.veg
Date: Sun, 27 Sep 1992 16:49:54 -0400 
From: Milind Kandlikar <mk49+@andrew.cmu.edu>
Subject: Re: vegetarians in institutions

>coleman@leland.Stanford.EDU (Michele Coleman) writes:
> 
>> reasons?  What's the situation in India, where vegetarianism is more
>> accepted?  
> 
>I don't know anything about the army, but i find that
>in fact people are more tolerant of vegetarianism in this country than
>in India.  
> 
>:-) of course that might be coz they expect it of a foreigner and
>especially an indian...
> 
>Also 86% of Indians are *not* vegetarians.  ofcourse a large
>percentage of the population simply cannot afford meat except for a
>few times a year and many will not eat beef if they are hindu or pork
>if they are muslim.
>Sudha

I completely disagree with the view that Indians are less tolerant of
vegetarians than people in the U.S. or anywhere in the west. I think
such a stand grossly mischaracterizes the Indian attitude to
vegetarianism, ignores historical and philiosophical roots of
vegetarianism in India. In fact, I think the statement is downright
absurd. 

Stating that 86% of people in India are not vegetarians is completely
missing the point. Among the 86% that do eat meat, most eat it only
occasionally. Giving a  mere  resource constraint/poverty explanation to
this phenomena is also problematic.There are several poor nations in
Africa with much the same GNP per capita but far higher meat
consumption. Even in India there are some groups that are poor but have
a much higher meat consumption than the average populace. Clearly there
are other socio-cultural explanations. 

As far as "tolerance" goes I think the best indicator of tolerance
towards vegetarians is reflected in the menu of an average restaurant!
From: amacdona@ac.dal.ca
Newsgroups: rec.food.veg
Subject: <None>
Date: 6 Oct 92 10:18:31 -0300
Organization: Dalhousie University, Halifax, Nova Scotia, Canada

In article <BvnLFK.L4C@gpu.utcs.utoronto.ca>, molnar@Bisco.CAnet.CA (Tom Molnar) writes:
> 
> Would anyone know how to make prepared mustard at home?  I like the taste of
> mustard on steamed veggies, but the salt content is too high for my liking.
> The label on my bottle of French's mustard lists the contents as vinegar,
> mustard seed, salt, spices.  So it doesn't sound too complicated.  I tried
> mixing some dry mustard with vinegar and water, but the mustard powder was
> far too potent, and the mixture far too watery when I reduced the amount of
> mustard.  So, does any kind soul know how to make prepared mustard at home?
> If so, I'd really appreciate pointers.
> 
> Thanks,
> Tom

	I used to make mustard when I worked in a "health food store", and 
I forget the whole recipe, but we used to boil the vinegar, then mix in 
the mustard powder and spices.  I don't think there was any water in this
mixture.  Also, the mustard turned out to be quite hot, which could be
a function of the type of powder we used.  

- Allison MacDonald
Newsgroups: rec.food.veg
From: tara@socrates.umd.edu (Tara McDermott)
Subject: Re: The milk marketting fraud
Organization: University of Maryland University College
Date: Sat, 3 Oct 1992 00:26:18 GMT

cindy@meshugge.media.mit.edu (Cindy Blank-Edelman) writes:

>What I want to know is this:

>IF IT WERE THE CASE that cows were not treated as described in "The
>Milk Marketing Fraud", and we humans only allowed ourselves to take
>the milk in the quantities that cows could reasonably spare for us,
>and cows were not forced to give birth all the time, etc etc.--

>1) Would it be ethical to consume dairy products?

>2) Would there be any dairy products to consume?  Or would there just
>not be enough without the techniques that are currently in use?

>I am really interested in people's thoughtful, reasonable, FLAME-FREE
>opinions on 1) and some real live facts on 2).

>--Cindy Blank-Edelman


As long as the cow is not harmed, and is treated with the utmost
respect for its needs, then I would say no, I have no "ethical"
arguments against your consumpting of milk.  But there are two more
points that I think are relevant to this discussion.  Milk is not just
unnecessary, it's unhealthy!  It is a fatty cholesterol laden food,
which, even if you are otherwise a complete vegetarian, a small dose
of milk products will raise your risk of heart disease a large amount
(relatively speaking).  If you already eat meat (but being an ethical
minded person, you wouldn't, would you?), it just adds to the risk you
already have.  The other argument against drinking milk is the impact
albeit small that a single cow has on the environment.  A cow produces
a LOT of waste.  If you were to have a small herd for example, this
could soon become a problem.  Depending on how many cows you had, they
could affect the local flora.  


Tara
-- 
Tara McDermott                     You've got a friend in Pennsylvania,
Newsgroups: rec.food.veg
From: abrams@binah.cc.brandeis.edu
Subject: Re: Kosher gelatin
Reply-To: abrams@binah.cc.brandeis.edu
Organization: Brandeis University
Date: Thu, 1 Oct 1992 00:59:40 GMT

In <1992Sep30.220046.15034@ucselx.sdsu.edu>:

Hi!  I'm a lacto-ovo vegearian.  I was eating some yogurt (that's my
effort toward political correcness for the year) and noticed that it
had "kosher gelatin" as one f the ingredients.  Did a horse die just so I could
eat yogurt?  I really don't like it *that* much!

I don't think kosher gelatin can ever include horse's hooves.  Just
because the kosher laws prohibit eating horses.  Now, I'm nobody's
rabbi, but if I remember correctly, there was a scandal in Israel
in 1987 about this very issue, the issue of kosher gelatin.
(I think then it was in marshmellows, which are apparently
very hard to make without some kind of gellatin.)  At the time
my cousin explained that kosher gelatin was typically made out of 
bones from cows that had died a natural death in India. 
(really!  Isn't that just so weird?)  For Jews, part of the problem
with gelatin is that it is a food that comes from meat that
under most circumstances shouldn't be mixed with milk products. 
I find the whole thing really confusing....

So, if I were you, I would just buy another brand of yogurt.  There 
are several where I live that contain no gelatin at all.  Here on 
the east coast, we have Seven Stars biodynamic, Brown Cow Farms,
Stonyfield Farms, and Alta Dena.  Plus, we can get this really nice
Russian-style liquid yogurt called Kefir that is made in Chicago
and Cleveland.  That stuff for sure has no gelatin in it, because 
it's supposed to be liquid.  

Is yogurt politically correct these days?  I had no idea.  

(Another note: I remember a discussion about the use of "kosher
bone charcoal" in refining sugar.  In order for the sugar to be
Pareve--that is, neither in the "milk" nor in the "meat" category
in the kosher laws--the bones could not come from a slaughtered
animal.  So I assume that they use the same legal loophole, letting
the cows die a natural death and using their bones....The reason
it is especially confusing was that I thought the kosher laws
prohibited eating food from an animal _not_ kosher slaughtered. 
But I guess by co-operating with Hindu cattle farmers they get
around it.  Don't take this as the final word, talk to someone
authoritative.)

(And anyway, there are other reasons not to use refined sugar....)

Ruth (Queen of Parentheses) Abrams
Xref: sparky rec.food.veg:9367 rec.food.cooking:17420
From: U42054@uicvm.uic.edu (Barry Grau)
Newsgroups: rec.food.veg,rec.food.cooking
Subject: Re: FALAFAL??? they fall apart
Date: 5 Oct 92 22:46:22 GMT
Article-I.D.: uicvm.92279.174622U42054
 <lc6csqINNj3u@jethro.Corp.Sun.COM> <1992Oct5.141722.11232@waikato.ac.nz>
 <1992Oct5.140416.15118@en.ecn.purdue.edu>
Organization: University of Illinois at Chicago

try using less liquid to help them hold together.
                                                  barry
Newsgroups: rec.food.veg
From: kkr42091@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (QUEEN ZENOBIA!)
Subject: Re: seek swedish vegetarian recipes
Organization: University of Illinois at Urbana
Date: Tue, 29 Sep 1992 14:56:24 GMT

 well i know that you can make the finnish cabbage rolls using tofu instead 
of the meat... it must be extrememly firm tofu and a lot of times i will mix 
tofu burger mix in it to make it mor estiffer... the taste isnt the same...
but it gives the general idea...
of course than i am a lacto-ovo so i still use the cream

and then there is the summer soup which is a vegetable soup.... but it too has
cream and milk in it.

if you are lacto-ovo i can give you some of the recipes.

-kimberli roan
From: das@voodoo.boeing.com (Deb Schwartz)
Newsgroups: rec.food.veg
Subject: Re: Question on kosher gelatin
Date: 5 Oct 92 18:44:45 GMT
Organization: Yet Another Graphics Project, Bellevue, WA

Thank you, Rabbi, for the information.  May I suggest that his posting be
included in the rec.food.veg FAQ?

------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 The question of Kosher Gelatin is long and complicated. In fact a whole
 book has been written on the subject, "Gelatin and Jewish Law" by David
 I. Sheinkopf.
 
 Different certification agencies accept different standards. But it is
 certainly possible for gelatin to be kosher and made from animal parts,
 even the parts of non-kosher animals.
 
 How so? There are two principles at work:
 
 1.) Davar Chadash: "a new thing." The substance has gone through a chemical
 change and is thus not considered related to the original product from which
 it was derived. This is a controversial principle in Kosher Food Laws and
 not universally accepted.
 
 2.) Nifsal Me-Achilat Kelev: "unfit for canine consumption." Something which
 has lost its status as food and is therefore neither kosher nor non-kosher.
 Once something has lost its status as food it does not regain it even if
 subsequently in fact consumed. The claim here is that the bones and sinews
 lose their status of food in the processing and thus are in essence
 exempted from the purview of the Kosher laws. This is a much less
 controversial concept.
 
 Gelatin made from fish, of course, is kosher and parve (neither meat nor
 dairy) without question, as long as the fish is a kosher species.
 
 In short, gelatin which is certified as Kosher cannot automatically be
 assumed vegetarian as well.
 
 Rabbi Charles Arian
 CARIAN@american.edu

------------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: gabele@austin.ibm.com (Carol Gabele)
Newsgroups: rec.food.veg
Subject: Re: what's "egg replacer"?
Date: 2 Oct 92 19:00:21 GMT
Organization: IBM Austin
Originator: gabele@inetnode.austin.ibm.com


A friend of mine got a *large* batch of egg replacer from a
distributer.  This is not the usual potato starch egg replacer.
It is some sort of concentrated milk proteins, and it really 
works well.  I can't say I've been very happy with the potato
starch.
 
It can be whipped up into meringue consistency, but it tastes really
bad that way!  The point is, it really seems to help in baked goods.
 
It is very strictly lacto-vegetarian.
 
I know many people on r.f.v. are vegan, so this would not appeal to
you.  However, if anyone is interested, I will get more information
on this product from my friend.  I know it's rather expensive, but
if you could convince a local store to sell it in bulk, or if you
have *several* friends who could go together, it might be more
reasonable.
 
Carol.
Newsgroups: rec.food.veg