From: Will Steeves <goid@zooid.guild.org>
Subject: Re: Back Again To Father
X-To: JOSEPH.R.MOORE
Organization: The Zoo of Ids
Date: Sun, 8 Nov 1992 04:10:00 GMT

jrmo@cbnewsk.cb.att.com (joseph.r.moore) writes...
JO> God I hate this topic.

Well....I don't think I'd disagree with you there.


JO> But In response to the question of why do
JO> people oppose notification even though there are some loopholes.
JO> Simple, suppose the pregnancy is by someone other than the husband,
JO> even though he may not kill you, he could still leave you and perhaps
                                     ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
JO> have a case to gain custody of kids, avoid alimony.  So you force
    ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
JO> women again to face the music with hubby, lie, or sereptitiously seek
JO> unsafe abortions.

But this is more or less exactly the case when a man has been unfaithful to
his wife (as I explained in my note to Andrea).  If he has been the one who is
unfaithful, and has fathered a child, then he'll either have to come clean or
have his wife find out, when his paycheque drops by $1000/month!  And in this
case, she will, not perhaps, but definitely, have a case to gain custody of
the kids and *receive* alimony *and* child support.


JO> Myself, I oppose abortions only because of my
JO> belief that life exists sometime before birth, maybe conception, maybe
JO> at the first heartbeat, maybe at viability.

Same here...I'm not sure where life begins, but I think that the "it's a human
after birth" is extremely misled.


JO> I can see some regulations, as all medical procedures are regulated.
JO> But consent laws for abortions and sterilization procedures somehow
        ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
JO> question a woman's judgement about making decisions over her own body.

FYI - I have never advocated these.  I do not recall anyone else who has, but
I am willing to be reminded by someone who presents me with messages from
someone who has.


JO> What purpose is it to force a woman to notify a spouse?  To punish
                                                             ^^^^^^^^^
JO> her, to coerce her not to get the procedure, if she is silent, it's
    ^^^

FYI - I only advocated that the doctor be the one doing the notification.

But in response to your question - This does not "punish" women ; it is meant
go give the man the same right to make choices for *his* life, choices which
he would not be able to make if he were kept in the dark about something which
he had had a share in bringing about.

And especially in the framework of marriage, it is *very* possible for either
partner to manipulate the other through creative editing of the truth, or by
just plain lying.  In other words, if a husband and wife have differing goals
for the marriage, they should have *every* opportunity and be made totally
aware of everything that can assist them in making choices for themselves.

The current situation gives woman "the right to choose," but the father will
have no ability to choose to leave the marriage if he is kept in silence.


JO> obviously something she would like to remain private.  Since the
JO> basis for allowing abortions is privacy and control over one's own
                                    ^^^^^^^
JO> body, this type of regulation clearly violates those conditions.

Ah, but try defining "privacy"...  And BTW, the current legal standard only
refers to the right of privacy (I think that "bodily integrity" is not included
in RvW...Can anyone confirm this?).  Previous discussions on Male Choice have
suggested different definitions of "privacy," which are both favourable to their
own sides, or so it seems...


JO> Until people believe there is a life that deserves equal protection under
JO> the law, and that the fetus being aborted is such a life, the sole
JO> decision lies with the woman.

Hmmph!  *When* will people ever realise this, especially with people calling
them "control freaks"?

---
Will Steeves, goid@zooid.guild.org                      "Neil Hull is GOiD"
ZOOiD BBS, Toronto, Ontario - The Zoo Of Ids            "GOiDS Rule"
(416) 322-7876

"Cthulhu for President in '92 - Why vote for the _lesser_ of two evils?"
                                                          - Bronis Vidugiris
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