HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: jay@intermec.com (Jay Schlegel x6878)
Newsgroups: rec.photo
Subject: Re: Canon 10s NOT discontinued - according to Canon; Other PHOTO 92 stuff
Date: 11 Dec 92 17:32:18 GMT
Reply-To: jay@intermec.com (Jay Schlegel x6878)
Distribution: na
Organization: Intermec Corporation, Everett WA

In article <1992Dec5.001925.18243@cbnewsm.cb.att.com> ka1gt@cbnewsm.cb.att.com (robert.m.atkins) writes:
>
>Despite prior postings here, the Tokina technical rep said that the AF versions
>of the 400/5.6 and 100-300/4 zooms are NOT optically the same as the MF
>versions. That's what he said, so take it for what it's worth. Specifically
>he said that the old 400.5.6 SD lens was low in contrast, while the new one
>is one of their highest contrast lenses. When asked about resolution he said
>contrast = resolution and I didn't want to get into an argument about that!
>I had a 400/5.6 SD at one time, and it was a very ordinary performer. I would
>not buy another. If the AF version is indeed different it might be worth a
>look.


Hi Bob,

   It may be the email I sent to you that you're thinking of, at any rate I don't
   recall seeing it mentioned here but, then again, we have flakiness several hops
   up the pike with our newsfeed.

   As I mentioned, I called Tokina to ask about the new AF-ATX 100-300 f/4 and
   the technical support person I got told me that the AF version was optically
   the same as the MF version, though this didn't make sense to me as the price
   delta would suggest differently (~$200).  

   I just called again and spoke with John Frerichs in Tech Support (800-421-1141
   extension 21).

   John told me that the AF-ATX 100-300 f/4 is indeed a new optical design.
   In addition to SLD glass (also in the MF version) the AF version includes
   kurz flint glass reducing the secondary spectrum.  The AF version also
   incorporates an internal focus design increasing focusing accuracy.
   John claims the engineering data he's received indicates that the new AF
   version has improved contrast over the old MF design.

   I asked if he knew of any upcoming lens test in a major magazine.  He said
   they were in the queue for a Popular Photography test but, due to the backlog,
   it probably won't happen till June 93.

   I certainly hope that this is a better lens as it would suit my needs well,
   particularly if it's pretty sharp with acceptable falloff at 300mm wide-open.
   I would have to purchase a larger camera bag though!

   Bob,  why don't you pick one up and test it for us!   :-)

-- 
-*jay  Jay Schlegel --> Intermec Corp., Everett Wa.
						     fluke!
	jay@intermec.com      OR  -->	    uunet!pilchuck!intermec!jay
Newsgroups: rec.photo
From: rodney@cs.UAlberta.CA (Rodney Gitzel)
Subject: TMAX in *print* developer??
Organization: University of Alberta, Edmonton, Canada
Date: Mon, 14 Dec 1992 17:40:16 GMT


In article <1992Dec10.030851.27783@athena.cs.uga.edu>, mcovingt@aisun3.ai.uga.edu (Michael Covington) writes:
>
> >    I am trying to get some ideas of how to get a lot of grains on my
> >picture or slide (for special mood). Any idea on how to get a lot
> >of grains on b&w , color and slide film is welcome.
> 
> Try developing your Tri-X Pan (or T-Max 3200) in print developer.
> 

Really?!??  Cool.  I would like to try this -- any general
 recommendations for temperature and time?  (I know this depends
 on the developer, but a good initial guess would likely save
 me a few rolls of TMZ...)

Thanks.

Rodney Gitzel
From: mikec@spider.co.uk (Mike Coren)
Newsgroups: rec.photo
Subject: Re: Teleconverters?
Date: 11 Dec 92 17:29:40 GMT
Organization: Spider Systems Limited, Edinburgh, UK.

In article <1992Dec10.161407.18542@athena.cs.uga.edu> mcovingt@aisun3.ai.uga.edu (Michael Covington) writes:
>
>Remember that the f-number is the diameter of the entrance pupil divided by
>the focal length.  So if you double the focal length, you halve the f-number.

I think you have that backwards.  The f-number is the focal length divided
by the diameter.  Smaller diameter ==> less light ==> larger f-number.
Doubling focal length while keeping diameter constant ==> double f-number.

Mike

-- 
Michael D. Coren, Electrical Engineer             mikec@spider.co.uk
Telecommunications Techniques Corporation, Germantown, Maryland, USA.
Temporarily at Spider Systems Limited, Edinburgh, Scotland, UK.
Newsgroups: rec.photo
From: mcovingt@aisun3.ai.uga.edu (Michael Covington)
Subject: Re: I Hate Grainy Pictures
Organization: AI Programs, University of Georgia, Athens
Date: Mon, 14 Dec 1992 20:23:32 GMT

In article <1992Dec14.191422.4020@linus.mitre.org> cgates@mitre.org (Curt Gates) writes:
>In article <1992Dec12.140910.5999@spock.UUCP> gumby@spock.uucp (Danny 
>Richman) writes:
>> When I enlarge the pictures I get a lot of grain.  Well, sure I expected 
>it, 
>> but isn't there anything I can do????
>
>Take a systems approach to the situation.  If the end result is a print in 
>a newspaper, grain is no where near the factor it would be if you were 
>taking the shots for an exhibition.  You may not even see the grain for 
>all the halftone dots on the printed page.  Rather than get wrapped up in 
>how to eliminate this feature of high speed film, learn to love it.  Grain 
>per se is not necessarily evil or the mark of a bad photographer.  Some 
>people even consider it arty!

WELL SAID.  If all the detail of interest is visible, then there's no real
reason to want to eliminate grain -- especially if a newspaper's halftone
screen is going to come along and add much coarser grain!



-- 
:-  Michael A. Covington     internet mcovingt@uga.cc.uga.edu :   Verbum caro
:-  Artificial Intelligence Programs       phone 706 542-0358 :    factum est
:-  The University of Georgia                fax 706 542-0349 :  et habitavit
:-  Athens, Georgia 30602-7415 U.S.A.     amateur radio N4TMI :   in nobis...
Newsgroups: rec.photo
From: ian@rats.demon.co.uk ("Ian A. Young")
From: tonya@hpldsla.sid.hp.com (Tony Arnerich)
Newsgroups: rec.photo
Subject: Re: Kodachrome 64
Date: 14 Dec 92 21:26:52 GMT
Organization: HP Scientific Instruments Division - Palo Alto, CA

[Questions about Kodachrome 64]

> I have heard talk of exposing 64 at a different setting, what of this?

I shot quite a lot of K64 in a Nikon F2 body - EI 80 was best. What is the
meter offset in that body? I dunno. Comparing light meters is like comparing
thermometers: it's easy to find the average of all the readings, but which
one tells the *truth*? What does make a difference is the feedback loop:
analyze your results and adapt accordingly. 

> Are there situations especially unsuited for 64?

In my opinion, spectacular sunsets. The extreme highlights right around
the sun have always gone green for me, back when I had the film processed
at *Kodak* (not Kodalux, Qualex, Fuqua, or whatever the name du jour has
been since) in Palo Alto, CA. I was very surprised when the same conditions
gave rise to magenta highlights, when one of the photo mags sent their K64
to the Kodak lab in New Jersey. Conclusion: something in the Kodachrome
film or process is very picky, with the result being green/magenta crossover. 

> Are there situations especially ideal for 64?

Absolutely! A redwood forest after a rain. You could just eat the greens
and browns. Nothing else can touch Kodachrome in this application, IMHO.

Tony
Newsgroups: rec.photo
From: erc@unislc.uucp (Ed Carp)
Subject: Re: Should I buy Tamron or Sigma?
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1 PL6]
Organization: Unisys Corporation SLC
Date: Wed, 16 Dec 1992 03:13:31 GMT

God (ahay@jarthur.claremont.edu) wrote:

: Yes, I did read the FAQ.  I'm afraid I couldn't get as much out of it as I
: wanted.

I thought God could do *anything*!

: Within the next few weeks I hope to buy a ~80-300 mm lens for my Maxxum 8000i.

Buy?  Why don't you just *make* one?

: At the moment I have a Sigma 35-80, and was planning on getting another Sigma,
: but I have been reading bad things about them in this news group recently, :(
: so I am wondering if it would be a bad choice.

I thought God knew *everything*!  Omnipotent, omnicient, all that jazz...


: children, and may be enlarged as big as 8 X 10, but probably no larger.  I

God goes skiing?  Well, what the hell ... why not?

: am looking for a lens that will give me GOOD pictures and last a long time.

Your children?  All 5 billion of them?  How touching.

: (It's a lot cheaper to buy one good lens than two bad ones.)  I'd appreciate
: any help anyone can give me in this area.  (i.e. please make my decision for
: me - I'll go with whatever the majority of respondants suggests!)

This is a singular honor - being asked by the Almighty to make His decisions
for Him!  Maybe I oughta crosspost this to *.religion.*

: Thanks for your time,

He made me .. and He's thanking me for my time??

Oh, before I forget:  :) :) :) :)   <-- for the humor impaired...:)

Sorry, Alex ... I couldn't resist... :)
-- 
Ed Carp			erc@apple.com, erc@saturn.upl.com	801/538-0177

Who and what would you be if you went beyond your deepest fears?
Newsgroups: rec.photo
From: craig@sco.COM (Craig R.P. Heath)
Subject: Re: Help with Minolta 8000i (again)
Organization: The Santa Cruz Operation, Inc.
Date: Wed, 16 Dec 1992 18:25:58 GMT


ianchan@leland.Stanford.EDU (Ian Hin Yun Chan) writes:

>the "MODE" and the button just beside it, when pressed together changes s
>*something* from M to ME, and this time I'm absolutely clueless as to what's
>going on. So what_is_ going on?

You have selected multiple exposure mode.  Doesn't it say that on the
camera body above the two buttons?

	- Craig @ SCO near London.
Newsgroups: rec.photo
From: ADMSRUBN@VM.UWP.EDU
Subject: Nikon 105 f2.8 wanted
Organization: UW-Parkside
Date: Mon, 14 Dec 1992 15:13:18 GMT

 
A friend of mine is looking to buy a used Nikkor 105 f2.8.  If
anyone has one for sale, please call me at 414-595-2576 or email me with
details so I can pass along info to him for follow-up.
 
Thanks.
From: asanders@adobe.com (Alan Sanders)
Newsgroups: rec.photo
Subject: Re: Lithiums vs. alkalines (was Re: was going to get 8008s but EOS 10s recommended)
Date: 17 Dec 92 22:27:10 GMT
Organization: Adobe Systems Incorporated

| Every test of lithium batteries I've seen shows them to have more
| capacity than alkalines, so I'm inclined to believe that the poor
| reputation of lithiums here in rec.photo is the fault of power hungry
| cameras rather than lithiums being inferior.

		-Per Danielsson

This is certainly a possibility, but I remember that Canon's own
promotional literature claimed about *half* the number of rolls for 
a 630 using lithiums as Nikon claimed for an 8008 using AA's. And
I remember thinking to myself: if the lithium battery costs four 
times as much and lasts half as long, that makes battery expenses
EIGHT TIMES higher for the 630. Choosing a camera because it's
cheaper to operate doesn't make very good sense, considering what
film and processing cost. I chose Nikon primarily because of its
solid mechanical construction and ease of operation. But minimal
battery costs are certainly a nice fringe benefit!

				   -Alan
Newsgroups: rec.photo,misc.forsale
From: ychen@hubcap.clemson.edu (Eric Chen)
Subject: >R: Leica for sale
Organization: Clemson University, Clemson SC
Date: Sat, 12 Dec 1992 04:50:30 GMT


Those persons who were interested in my Leica equipments just back off.
I am going to cut a big deal before Christmas.

Two Leica lens (35mm f:3.5 + 90mm f:4) sale for $200
Leica IIIa body and flash units will be free if you perchaised above
two.
btw, before you consider my camera, please check the market price.

Eric (803)6548817
From: ira@adpgate.UUCP (Ira Hill)
Newsgroups: rec.photo
Subject: Re: 3 Questions
Date: 13 Dec 92 21:31:34 GMT
Article-I.D.: adpappl.1798
Organization: ADP Dealer Services R&D, Portland, OR

Try your local rental dark room first. You not only need
the hardware to do darkroom work but you also need the
space, which for your health had better be ventalated. You
can develope the film at home using a changing bag and a tank
for about $40 in hardware plus chem costs. Then go to a rental
darkroom and print, you get first class equiptment and a 
chance to decide if you want to do this on a home basis
without the larger investment. If you don't have a rental
darkroom operation in your home town check with the local
camera clubs and see if they have any suggestions.

Ira E Hill

Out of cute sayings.
Newsgroups: rec.photo
From: nuscss1@vms1.iscs.nus.sg (Vax BULLET-IN-Board SysOps)
Subject: Help ! Dirty Mirror on EOS630 !
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41    
Organization: National University of Singapore Dept. of Computer Sc.
Date: Sun, 13 Dec 1992 02:36:00 GMT

	ok, so blame my itchy hands. I was brushing the insides of 
	my eos630 when a hair/bristle from the brush got stuck, and I used
	my fingers to remove it, only to leave a humongous fingerprint on
	the mirror. So i got out my cleaning fluid and cloth and proceeded
	to wipe the mirror. Big mistake. Now whenever I look through the
	viewfinder, I see dark spots at the corners. I've cleaned the
	mirror zillions of times since, trying to get rid of the spots.
	All in vain. Does anyone know of any effective way of cleaning
	the mirror ? I'll be eternally grateful...

	Yeah, I know it doesn't affect the photo quality, but it 
	is extremely annoying.

Newsgroups: rec.photo
From: hasker@cs.uiuc.edu (Rob Hasker)
Subject: Re: Does Minolta X-700 allow shutter priority auto mode
Keywords: Minolta, camera
Organization: University of Illinois, Dept. of Comp. Sci., Urbana, IL
Date: Tue, 15 Dec 1992 14:43:52 GMT

fourie@odie.ee.wits.ac.za (Andre Fourie) writes:

>I have purchased a 2nd hand Minolta X-700 camera.
> Somebody told me that the camera can be used in shutter priority mode 
>as well.

I just checked the manual, and the answer is no.

Rob
Newsgroups: rec.photo
From: tab62@isuvax.iastate.edu (   )
Subject: Re: Bayonet mount strength of Canon EOS10s and the rest
Reply-To: tab62@isuvax.iastate.edu
Organization: Iowa State University, Ames, Iowa
Distribution: na
Date: Wed, 16 Dec 1992 02:04:34 GMT

In article <92Dec16.001139.28306@acs.ucalgary.ca>, panlilio@acs.ucalgary.ca (Victor P. Panlilio) writes:

>As a mechanical engineer AND part-time professional photographer,
>this disturbs me. While I acknowledge that Canon's EOS line has
>some excellent technical advantages in autofocus, I've generally
>been skeptical of the line ever since the original EOS cameras
>were put on the market. In doing side-by-side comparisons of the
>Canon EOS-1 and the Nikon F4e, I've ALWAYS noticed MORE vibration
>being transmitted to my hands. The same relative *flimsiness* of

Have you noticed the F4's body is covered by rubberized compound while
the EOS-1 is not.   I'm not engineer, but I guess rubber compound is a 
better shock absorber than polycarbonate.  The more important question
is does EOS-1 produces more vibrations than F4 to affect pix quality.

>the Canon EOS-10s and the newer A2/A2E is also apparent when they
>are compared with the Nikon N8008s/F-801s and Nikon N90/F90. I
>should also add that the Nikons use AA cells, whereas the Canons
>use the 6V lithiums. Much is made of the Canon's autofocusing
>speed, etc., but I find that with the newest D-series and AF-I
>Nikkors the Nikons are not exactly slow to autofocus, either. In
>fact, two of the slowest AF lenses I've ever tried are the Canon
>50mm f/1.0 and the 85mm f/1.2 USM lenses. They are WAYYY SLOWWWW.
>
Well, until Nikon produces similar lenses, we will never know who will AF
faster.  

>
>
>
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
Chong Siak     Iowa State University  Ames  Iowa   tab62@isuvax.iastate.edu                      
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
Newsgroups: rec.photo
From: markl@research.nj.nec.com (Mark Lee)
Subject: Re: Outgrowing your gear/Bayonet mount strength etc....
Originator: markl@research.nj.nec.com
Organization: NEC Research Institute
Distribution: usa
Date: Thu, 17 Dec 92 22:36:34 GMT

It almost sounds as if another Nikon vs. Canon war is about to break out
under these subject headings, so let me insert my $0.02.

When I was looking for an AF SLR two years ago, I bought a Nikon 6006.
My primary reason was that I own a Nikon FM2 + a few lenses, which I
really like, and I appreciate being able to swap lenses between an all-
mechanical camera and a high-tech auto-everything one.  I find it very
valuable to be able to use my 75-150/3.5 E lens, which I think is better
(optically, though not mechanically) than any AF medium-tele zoom made
by anyone, on the 6006.

I use the 6006 when I need to shoot fast, for candid people pictures at
parties and get-togethers, and when I don't want to lug around a big
external flash.  I use the FM2 for stills, landscapes, and whenever I
think I will encounter unfavorable conditions (winter camping, long
over-seas trips, storms, etc.)  No worries about batteries dying!  I
know the film well enough to be fairly confident of
guessing the right exposure with at most a +/- 2 stop bracket under most
conditions.

When my dad wanted to get an AF SLR, I recommended he buy a ....

Canon EOS Elan!

Why?  His wants are different than mine.  He has no interest in
mechanical cameras, nor any previous investment in lenses.  He wants a
reliable, light-weight, quiet AF SLR with flash to take pictures of his
grandchildren and vacation trips.  Objectively, I think the newer Elan,
priced slightly below the 6006, has a better built-in flash (with zoom
head), better film transport and AF drive, and a few more useful
built-in features than the 6006.  If only the low-to-mid priced
EF zoom lenses weren't so dark....

Anyway, my point is that I think both Canon and Nikon make good stuff.
What someone should buy depends a lot on exactly what one wants to do
with the camera.

--Mark


Newsgroups: rec.photo
From: micki@netcom.com (Michelle Stone)
Subject: Re: was going to get 8008s but EOS 10s recommended
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services  (408 241-9760 guest) 
Date: Wed, 16 Dec 1992 08:37:01 GMT

glp@fig.citib.com (Greg Parkinson) writes:

>You might want to look at the Nikon 6006.  It uses
>*those* batteries, but it has all the neat flash
>stuff you'd have to buy an SB24 for, and it has
>matrix, center-weighted, and spot metering.

and stuff that you would have to buy the data back
for like bracketing!

MIchelle

The opinions expressed here are my own and do represent my 
perspective.  My business stands behind my work because I 
own it! 
-- 
micki@netcom.com

By the way.  I find myself to be a recent addition to the 
unemployment statistic.  I am a software manager.  If  you know
of an opportunity, please let me know!

Newsgroups: rec.photo
From: kienwen@zoo.Princeton.EDU (Kien Wen Sun)
Subject: camera forsale
Originator: news@nimaster
Organization: Princeton University
Distribution: nj
Date: Fri, 18 Dec 1992 20:10:28 GMT

fuji AX-5 camera body with motor winder( s frame or c 2 fps) attched
shutter speed 2s~1/1000s 
four exposure mode:AV,TV,P,M
depth preview
exposure lock
exposure compensation:+1~-1 ev in 1/3 ev step
self timer
in the view finder shows exposure mode,shutter speed and aperture value
flash syn to 1/60s
in mint cond.                            
fujinon lens 43~75mm/f3.5~4.5
fujinon lens 80~200mm/f3.8
Fuji flash for AX camera
fujinon lens 50mm/f1.6
fuji makes very good lens,pictures taken by the lens above are sharp.

everything is in mint condition.
I would like to sell whole outfit for $500+shipping
 I want to switch to autofocus gear.
From: gray@cac.washington.edu (Terry Gray)
Newsgroups: rec.photo
Subject: Re: Saunders 4x5 enlargers
Date: 12 Dec 92 23:30:05 GMT
Article-I.D.: u.1992Dec12.233005.7661
Organization: UW Networks and Distributed Computing

In article <Ef_=RuO00Uh_A24khk@andrew.cmu.edu> "Frank A. Reynolds" <fr0c+@andrew.cmu.edu> writes:
>Has anyone used a Saunders/LPL 4500 4x5 enlarger?  I first saw them in a
>Salthill catalogue which in part says that the Saunders "it is
>essentially the first truly modern enlarger to appear in the marketplace
>in many years."  PR or not what is of interest to me is that rather than
>having different heads the Saunders has one head with interchangeable
>filter modules, one each for color, variable contrast papers and
>straight B&W.  I got a quote of, $1595.00 for the enlarger with the
>color (dichroic) filter module and $350.00 for the variable contrast
>filter module, $1945.00 total.  Some color heads (and VC heads) cost
>that much.

Frank,
I was just looking at one of these today, and was quite impressed.  
Seemed to be a very smooth handling machine.  The two-speed focusing
was particularly nice.  I liked the feel of it better than either the 
Beseler 45MXT or Omega D5 that were also on display.

The interchangeable filter modules seems like a nice way to go, but I 
do have a couple of questions/concerns:

1. I'm suspicious of the impact of the fan in the head, even though most
   dichroic heads have them.  Doesn't a fan cause *some* vibration?

2. There is no cold-light option, though the "diffusion B&W" module is
   probably fine.  However, there's a bit of piece-of-mind in being able 
   to use 3rd party or mainstream heads (e.g. Beseler 45A, Aristo), which
   doesn't seem possible with this enlarger.

3. It wasn't obvious to me how easy it is to align the neg and lens stages,
   but this is (hopefully) just my ignorance.

4. B&H lists a new version, the "Deluxe 4550" at about $250 more than the
   4500-II.  Any idea what the difference is?  (Incidentally, B&H shows 
   the "LPL Super Dichroic 4500-II" costing about $1260.  Even if shipping 
   was well over $50, that's still a lot less...)

5. There's no Beseler-style Negatrans option :(

Incidentally, Salthill now has their own enlarger, but I suspect it costs 
twice as much as the Saunders/LPL...

Please share (or email me) any other comments you have on this enlarger,
as I'm thinking about getting one myself.


--
Terry Gray
 University of Washington
  gray@cac.washington.edu
Newsgroups: rec.photo
From: briang@atlastele.com (Brian Godfrey)
Subject: Re: Query: Books on physics of photography
Organization: Atlas Telecom Inc.
Date: Fri, 18 Dec 1992 22:50:53 GMT

In article <1992Dec18.223201.1481@atlastele.com> briang@atlastele.com (Brian Godfrey) writes:
>In article <1992Dec17.004821.26135@unislc.uucp> erc@unislc.uucp (Ed Carp) writes:
>>: for my wife, a chemist w/strong math background.  She's interested in 
>>: the way lenses work and why exposures work the way they do (e.g. f/8 @ 
>>: 1/100 sec == f/16 @ 1/50 sec).

   OOOOOH!  I'm sorry.  I made the wrong attribution here.  I hate it when
   people do that to me.  Hope Ed sees this apology before he whacks me for
   it.

-- 
--Brian M. Godfrey
  atlastele.com
Newsgroups: rec.photo
From: dp@world.std.com (Jeff DelPapa)
Subject: TV can't get it right
Organization: The World Public Access UNIX, Brookline, MA
Date: Fri, 18 Dec 1992 05:19:54 GMT

Citibank is running a promotion for its plastic. shot opens with view
thru rectangular screen with a split prisim in the center. fades to
customer holding a 'blad. Owner takes 'blad and hands customer slr,
fade to square screen with black crosshairs - action shifts to other
customer playing with slr - fade to square screen with crosshairs.
What did I find wrong with the sequence? 

<dp>

Newsgroups: rec.photo
From: shuju@morocco.tv.tek.com (Shu-Ju Wang)
Subject: Re: Picture matting/Framing
Organization: Tektronix TV Products
Date: Tue, 15 Dec 1992 02:58:13 GMT



In the discussions that I've seen on the topic of drymounting, here
is a problem that I haven't seen mentioned.  You should consider this
before you decide on your personal preference.

My photography teacher at Oregon School of Arts and Crafts had an exhibit
in Japan some years ago.  All her prints were drymounted.  The curator (?)
of the exhibit decided that they wanted the mounted prints to be a different 
size.  They re-cut her mats (with the prints mounted on) without consulting
her!  On top of that, some of the prints were cut unevenly.  

So she doesn't drymount her prints anymore.

Shu-Ju