From: bcoleman@hayes.com (Bill Coleman)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.mac.advocacy
Subject: Re: CLI advantages (was Re: Macintosh bigots)
Date: 23 Nov 92 18:08:48 EDT
Organization: Hayes Microcomputer Products, Norcross, GA

Where you asleep or what? We've already hashed out the CLI argument. It lost.

In article <GERRY.92Nov16122752@onion.cmu.edu>, gerry@cmu.edu (Gerry Roston) writes:
> 
> It seems that y'all are seeing the trees, but not the forest.  With a
> CLI, the user can basically do anything he wants.  

If a) he can remember which commands to use, and the exact options he 
needs to remember in order to achieve the desired result, b) he can remember
exactly the file names he wants to manipulate and c) the data he is working
with is compatable with the primary data type of his tools. (eg, for Unix,
the data is ASCII text. This doesn't work well for graphic information)

> If the exact tool isn't there, you hook two existing tools with a pipe or 
> write a shell script.  

Provided the problem is solvable with the tools he has on hand. If you are
manipulating an ASCII text file on Unix, you probably will do OK. Otherwise,
you may be stuck.

> With a GUI, however, you are entirely at the mercy of the GUI designer, who 
> has decided for you what tools you will use and in what manner you can use 
> them.  

And, if you have chosen a good user interface, the designer has done an 
excellent job of including exactly what you need, and leaving out anything
distracting, annoying or unwanted.

This is certainly quite a task. Much harder than simply writing a program
that reads from standard input and writes to standard output, believe me.

> The GUI is quite sufficient for Joe Average User who never needs to push 
> the system's envelope.  

Or for Bill Experienced User who likes to work in a consistant environment
which supports his efforts and doesn't require him to remember lots of
extraneous information just to get the job done. (ie it allows him to focus
on his Work, rather than making Work of using the computer)

> I defy any GUI user to show me how they would emulate the UNIX find
> command.  

I defy any Unix user to show me why the heck I'd want to use the Unix find
comand in the first place.

> 1-Automatic transmission vs standard transmission.  The AT is
> perfectly acceptable for most people and for many of the rest, it
> would suffice in a high percentage of driving situations.  However,
> the driver has little control over gear shifts, etc.  The ST gives you
> complete control at all times.  Conclusion: A more complex mechanism
> simplifies the operator interface but limits choices.

This is an excellent analogy. I have a couple of points:

* the AT wastes a little power to perform the automatic function. (The
  analogy holds)

* the AT does give control over the gears (that's what the numbers to the
  right of the "D" do)

* the AT is much simpler to use. There's almost no work to do. ST on the
  other hand requires constant adjustment making it much more work to
  drive.

* the AT requires almost no training. The ST requires significant training,
  and a long practice period to become proficient.

The analogy breaks down because the ST is a simple, limited task. After a
while, the act of shifting gears because an automatic response. Computers
are much more complicated, since users rarely reach the same identical 
state in each task. They are more likely to be approached with new, unique
situations each time. Thus, the ability to learn easily or to apply previous
learning is a big plus. Hence the power of good user interfaces, such as the
Macintosh.

> 2-Framemaker vs TeX.  

Poor analogy. There are probably better tools available than either of
these products.

> So, in conlcusion: Keep thing in perspective.  

Right!

> GUI's are useful but
> they do not possess the capabilities of a CLI, and those capabilties
> are sometimes required.

Wrong!


-- 
Bill Coleman, AA4LR                ! CIS: 76067,2327    AppleLink: D1958
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Newsgroups: comp.sys.mac.advocacy