HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: dbernard@thewho.Central.Sun.COM (Dave Bernard)
Newsgroups: rec.travel
Subject: Re: Pacific Heights, Calif.-Good & Bad?
Date: 4 Sep 92 12:26:52 GMT
Reply-To: dbernard@thewho.Central.Sun.COM
Organization: Sun Microsystems

The only Pacific Hts I'm aware of is a hoity-toity neighborhood in
San Francisco, sort of between Sutro Heights and the Presidio.
Pretty houses, small lots, 7-figure prices.

	Dave
Newsgroups: rec.travel
From: charleen@ADS.COM (Charleen Bunjiovianna)
Subject: Re: national trust vs royal oak
Organization: The Original Estrogen-Crazed Lust Bunnies
Date: Wed, 2 Sep 1992 16:46:56 GMT

In article <2SEP199208352873@adpdp2.lanl.gov> 108116@adpdp2.lanl.gov (108116) writes:
>The recent summary about the National Trust was wonderful - but I still have a
>few questions.
>
>My cousin and I are going to England in 6 weeks.  My favourite times are
>medieval and hers are Victorian.  Which of National Trust, Royal Oak, or
>English Heritage would benefit us more?
>
>How do I get ahold of any/either of these institutions?

Sorry, I should have posted this with the summary, but my books were all
packed in moving boxes.

From Fodor's "Great Britain '92":

The National Trust *Royal Oak Membership* is available in the U.S. at
$40 for individuals, $60 for families.  Besides entry to all National Trust
properties, this also covers thrice-yearly literature and admission to
lectures and other events.  Contact:

Damaris Horan
Executive Director
Royal Oak Foundation
285 West Broadway, Suite 400
New York, NY 10013
212-966-6565

English Heritage annual membership has no U.S. version, but its U.K. one
is L15 for an adult, L25 for two adults at the same address.  Contact:

English Heritage Membership Dept.
Box 1BB
London W1A 1BB

Fodor's Great Britain '92 is wonderful, BTW.  The equivalent Frommer's
guide is useless; don't waste your money on it.  Fodor's is a wealth of
heres-how-to-find-out-about-this information.

Charleen
--
oven:
    Compact home incinerator used for disposing of bulky
    pieces of meat and poultry.
                                -- Bob Ekstrom
Newsgroups: rec.travel,soc.culture.nordic
From: frans@sis.uucp (Frans Lichtenberg)
Subject: Re: Hotel information for Copenhagen
Keywords: Copenhagen, hotels
Organization: Sheridan College, Ontario, Canada
Date: Wed, 2 Sep 1992 12:05:30 GMT

In article <1992Sep1.182703.15152@lamont.ldgo.columbia.edu> daver@ldgo.columbia.edu (dave reynolds) writes:
>Hi there,
>
>I am looking for information for the following hotels in Copenhagen:
>Hotel Viking, Hotel Astoria, Mission hotels, Esplanaden, and
>Skovshoved (in Charlottenlund).  I would be interested to hear
>of how these rate in terms of location, cost, quality, etc.  For
>Skovshoved, I would be curious to know how easy it is to get to
>and from Copenhagen.  Any other suggestions would be welcome.  I will
>in Copenhagen in late September/early October, will off-season rates be
>in effect?
>Please post or e-mail.  Thanks in advance.
>
>David Reynolds
>Lamont-Doherty Geological Observatory
>(working on a disclaimer)
>
>
Skovshoved Hotel is in Skovshoved and not in Charlottenlund. Their is
a bus in front of the hotel going to Copenhagen (8 km). You may have
to transfer in Hellerup. Skovshoved hotel has a very good resturant,
at least it had 7 years ago.

		Frans.....


Xref: sparky rec.travel:12401 soc.culture.usa:6888
From: rbs@uk.ac.ed.aisb (Robert Scott)
Newsgroups: rec.travel,soc.culture.usa
Subject: Re: Loud irritating obtrusive American tourists.
Date: 26 Aug 92 17:29:31 GMT
	<1992Aug25.172543.10993@MITL.COM> <25AUG199212491173@arecibo.aero.org>
Reply-To: rbs@aisb.ed.ac.uk
Organization: Dept AI, Edinburgh University, Scotland


[stuff deleted]
   
   I have also observed Japanese doing this in Hawaii (but not at Inspiration
   Point :).) I believe that not all Germans are litterbugs, nor are all 
   Japanese, but conversly, I beleive all people who generalize are fools.

Unfortunately you just included yourself in that last phrase :-)

--
Rob Scott
---
Department of AI                Tel: 031-650-2713
University of Edinburgh         FAX: 031-226-2730
80 South Bridge               email: rbs@aisb.ed.ac.uk
EDINBURGH
EH1 1HN
From: johnson@ut-emx.uucp (Karen J. Morgan)
Newsgroups: rec.travel
Subject: Lufthansa Airlines
Date: 28 Aug 92 18:39:18 GMT
Organization: U. Texas Center for Space Research

I am considering a trip to Munich from Houston, Texas, and would
appreciate hearing of any personal experiences anyone has had with
Lufthansa -- good, bad, or otherwise.  The trip would involve
only one stop (Frankfurt) and a change of planes there.

Since I don't normally subscribe to this group, it might be safer
to respond to one of the addresses below.

Thanks!

Karen Morgan

-- 
        karen@louise.ae.utexas.edu   -or-   johnson@emx.utexas.edu
 "It's no wonder politicians don't listen to their conscience.  They don't
      want to take advice from a total stranger." --Alfred E. Neuman
From: cc@dcs.ed.ac.uk (Chris Cooke)
Newsgroups: rec.travel
Subject: Re: national trust vs royal oak
Date: 3 Sep 92 17:11:36 GMT
Organization: Department of Computer Science, University of Edinburgh, Scotland
In-reply-to: charleen@ADS.COM's message of 2 Sep 92 16:46:56 GMT

In article <1992Sep2.164656.28109@ads.com> charleen@ADS.COM (Charleen Bunjiovianna) writes:

   English Heritage annual membership has no U.S. version, but its U.K. one
   is L15 for an adult, L25 for two adults at the same address.  Contact:

   English Heritage Membership Dept.
   Box 1BB
   London W1A 1BB

Point to note: English Heritage runs the government-owned monuments in
England.  The ones in Wales are run by Cadw, and in Scotland by Historic
Scotland.
--
	-- Chris. 	cc@dcs.ed.ac.uk   (on Janet, cc@uk.ac.ed.dcs)
From: gcoppak@state.systems.sa.gov.au
Newsgroups: rec.travel
Subject: info on penang
Date: 25 Aug 92 22:29:50 GMT
Organization: State Systems, South Australia

I am planning a trip to penang in November if anybody in net land
has any information on this country it would be a great help
i am intrested in any places of intrest and places that are a must
to do in penang


thanks for your help
paul
Newsgroups: rec.travel,soc.culture.usa
From: cindy@solan10.solan.unit.no (Cynthia Kandolf)
Subject: Re: Loud irritating obtrusive American tourists.
Organization: /home/ludviga/cindy/.organization
	<1992Aug25.184607.8840@mahendo.jpl.nasa.gov>
	<1992Aug25.195626.28841@news2.cis.umn.edu>
Date: 27 Aug 92 23:01:51

Up here in Norway - and possibly, no probably the rest of the Nordic 
countries as well - there are a number of stereotypes about tourists.
(Let me say that i don't agree with any of these, but i understand
the sources of them.)  Germans have too much money and have no
idea how to behave in nature.  French tourists are only interested
in driving their cars up tp the North Cape, getting a sticker for
their car, and driving right back home again.  British tourists come
to whine about how everything isn't like it is back home.  And yes,
American tourists are loud, and spend their entire vacation
videotaping what they see so they can prove to their friends that
they've been to all the right places.

Now, about a week ago i got home from a short ten-day vacation in
Denmark.  Ah, i had a wonderful time... there are lots of stories,
perhaps for rec.travel at another time.  But while i was there, i
bumped into at least one group of tourists to match every stereotype:

An American family headed by a father who was busy videotaping all
of Roskilde's famous Viking ship museum - never pausing to look at
the labels and signs, just videotaping...

A German tourist at a Safari park who ignored the "Strictly forbidden
to leave your car" notice and walked right up to get a closer look
at a giraffe (i should mention there was a rhino not twenty meters
away)....

A British woman at the hotel who whined about the breakfast buffet,
not because there was anything objectively wrong with it, but just
because it contained Danish breakfast food and not English...

And a beat up Volkswagen bus containing an undetermined number of
French tourists, decorated with banners announcing its destination
as the North Cape, "doing" a quick round of Copenhagen before getting
down to the more important business of seeing Europe's northernmost
point (except it isn't, and there's nothing to see anyway)....

When i try to think about how many tourists i actually saw, my mind
just reels.  The number of non-Danish license plates, the many
languages that floated around the breakfast rooms, the crush of people
at Tivoli and all the kids at Legoland... And yet the four above stuck
out in my memory, _precisely because_ they fit an idea someone else
put into my head... 

If all American tourists, or all British or French or German tourists,
acted like that, however, my trip would have been a great deal
less pleasant.  And summer in Trondheim would be unbearable.

-Cindy Kandolf
 cindy@solan.unit.no
 Trondheim, Norway
From: neve@nlm.nih.gov (Leif Neve)
Newsgroups: rec.travel
Subject: Re: REQUEST: The Black Forest (Schwarzwald)
Date: 2 Sep 92 16:37:36 GMT
Reply-To: neve@nlm.nih.gov
Organization: National Library of Medicine

In article 8522@head-cfa.harvard.edu, shaks@head-cfa.harvard.edu (Jonathan Schachter) writes:
>
>  Hi there netpeople.  can anyone send me some info on recreational
>opportuntiies this time of year in Germany's Black Forest?  I have
>3 or four days after a conference in Strasbourg, France, and I thought
>to go camping, hiking, and fishing there.  so:
>
>   where would i camp there?
>
>   can i get around by public transportation (i don't really want
>to rent a car unless i have to)?
>
>   where would i go hiking and fishing there?

15 years ago I spent a memorable afternoon on the shores of Lake Titisee (sp?)
deep in Schwarzwald.  Gorgeous clear lake amongst the forested hills.

There was camping and boating (don't know about fishing) then. Don't know
if the place has been overbuilt by now or what.

Leif Neve
From: naren@tekig5.pen.tek.com (Naren Bala)
Newsgroups: rec.travel
Subject: Visiting Vancouver
Date: 31 Aug 92 15:11:12 GMT
Distribution: na
Organization: Tektronix, Inc., Beaverton,  OR.


Hi, 
I was planning to visit Vancouver next weekend. I am a permanent resident of
U.S.A. and an Indian citizen. I was wondering what documents I need to take
when I travel to Vancouver and come back to U.S.A. Would it advisable to
take just my green card and not take my passport ? I was planning to drive in
my car.

Reply by email
Thanks 
** Naren **
From: dan@grok85.ColumbiaSC.NCR.COM (Daniel Adams)
Newsgroups: rec.travel
Subject: Re: Loud irritating obtrusive American tourists.
Date: 28 Aug 92 13:41:46 GMT
Reply-To: dan@Grok85.ColumbiaSC.NCR.COM
Organization: NCR Corporation

In article <1992Aug26.114817.8791@iccgcc.decnet.ab.com>, lieser@iccgcc.decnet.ab.com (Ed Lieser) writes:
|> In article <frank2.28@underdog.ee.wits.ac.za> frank2@underdog.ee.wits.ac.za (FRANK D N) writes:
|> >It has been my experience when travelling abroad that the majority 
|> >of American tourists are loud, obtrusive and selfish. They are at their 
|> >worst in large tour groups, but individuals and families can be almost as 
|> >bad. They appear to have no consideration for fellow tourists and the locals 
|> >whose lands they are visiting. 
|> 
|> I am flying into Frankfurt next week, and thus have begun to practice
|> obnoxious behavior in preparation.  Despite the fact that I've studied
|> German for several years, I think I'll pretend I know none at all, and
|> then stare at people as if they're stupid when they can't understand my
|> slangy English.  I could also demand Miller beer at the beer gardens,
|> insisting that the Germans just don't understand how to make beer.
|> 
|> I could use some other pointers, though, since I wouldn't want to
|> disappoint anyone's comfortable opinions about us 'Muricans.
|> 

I am flying to Stuttgart (were I was born) next week.  My mother is German
so I am familiar with the ways of the Germans.  When I am around family and
friends in Germany I am proud to be Amercican and have lively political
and cultural discussions.  But, when I hit some tourist spots I hide
that I am an American, because there is always some obnoxious American
who thinks he owns Germany (i.e. we won the war). 

Last year I visited the castles in lower Bavaria, and ran into some
Americans.  They talked aloud interrupting the tour guide, insisted 
on English translations of everthing said and seen and openly
complained about dislikes of Germany.

From MY experience, American tourist in Germany/Switzerland/Austria can
be catagorized 3 ways.  The young singles, out to learn the culture
and blend in.  The older couples, fascinated by the culture and very
respectful of it (some of the men are WWII veterans).  And last, the
young-middle aged couples were they are on some ego trip spouting obnoxious
behavior.  I think this comes from the Disneyland mentality.  The tourist
offerings in Germany hold strong cultural ties and in America this is
rarely the case.  Most Americans would rather go to Disneyland than 
the Washington monument.  

Daniel
Newsgroups: rec.travel,soc.culture.usa
From: jkp@cs.HUT.FI (Jyrki Kuoppala)
Subject: Re: Loud irritating obtrusive American tourists.
Followup-To: soc.culture.usa
Reply-To: jkp@cs.HUT.FI (Jyrki Kuoppala)
Organization: Helsinki University of Technology, Finland
Date: Tue, 25 Aug 1992 22:15:59 GMT

>>It has been my experience when travelling abroad that the majority 
>>of American tourists are loud, obtrusive and selfish. They are at their 
>>worst in large tour groups, but individuals and families can be almost as 
>>bad. They appear to have no consideration for fellow tourists and the locals 
>>whose lands they are visiting. 
>>
>>I do not want to be guilty of generalising.
>
>	Hogwash. If you had not wanted to be 'guilty of generalizing' 
>you would not have opened your post with two paragraphs of Yank-baiting
>generalization, cross-posted to s.c.usa. If you were truly interested in
>rational discussion in re: the behavior of Americans abroad, you would
>have used an interogative, rather than a declarative form of presentation.
>
>	The impressively civilized train of rebuttals which followed
>this Yank-bait is characteristic of rec.travel and constitutes an

Well, I guess this does seem a bit more civilized than an earlier
article written on soc.culture.usa in answer to someone from outside
USA who dared to talk about issues pertaining to soc.culture.usa:

">Should I spend a few
>lifetimes studying U.S. culture before being qualified to post to
>Usenet concerning matters about U.S. politics and political culture?
>
	YES. You and most other non-res posters whose postings in
regards to the US commonly devolve into smug bombast should spend a
couple of lifetimes studying U.S. culture before posting as you have.
	I've been living here 31 years lad. I've lived in every major
regional/demographic subdivision in the US, excepting the Northwest.
I don't make the sort of sweeping statements about the place that I've
seen you make, and I actually know the place well."

Followups directed to soc.culture.usa.

//Jyrki
Newsgroups: rec.travel
From: john@sequent.com (John Vander Borght)
Subject: Re: Beer prices in France and Norway 
Organization: Sequent Computer Systems, Inc.
Distribution: sqnt
Date: Thu, 27 Aug 92 17:06:29 GMT

kene@sequent.com (Ken Ewing) writes:

>In article <9208270803.AA22838@etn.ericsson.se> bhag@etn.ericsson.se (Boerge Haga 2634) writes:
>>
>>(The beer is still cheaper in Norway than in Sweden and France ;-)  )

>I may be unwise in disputing with a Norwegian native, but when I was 
>in Norway three years ago a pint glass of beer cost 36 NOK, and only 
>a week later, at a small town in France, a glass of beer (maybe 1/2-pint 
>or so) cost 2 francs.  At the time the exchange rates for the two 
>currencies were:  

>     6.5 NOK ---> US$1 
>     6 francs --> US$1 

>...so I considered the two currencies about equal.  I got the impression 
>that beer was far cheaper in France than in Norway.  

>(The Norwegians I was with sure loved it!  8-)  )  


This reminds of the Norwegian that I met there who had traveled all over
the world.  His comment was: "The best thing about living in Norway is
that no matter where you go on your holiday, it is cheaper than staying
at home."

John Vander Borght
john@sequent.com
-- 
"Practice random kindness and senseless acts of beauty!"
John Vander Borght
john@sequent.com
From: lerner@jeeves.ucsd.edu (David Lerner)
Newsgroups: rec.travel
Subject: Day trips to Mexico from San Diego
Date: 3 Sep 92 21:29:10 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: University of California, San Diego

Hey netters,

I know there's got to be lots of things to do and see on day trips to Mexico 
from San Diego.  We're really not interested in being bait for beggers and cheap
shops just across the border in Tijuana.  Does anyone know of interesting stuff
south of Tijuana?  What about Ensenada?  Any suggestions?

Thanks for the help

David Lerner
lerner@jeeves.ucsd.edu
From: napier@cs.ucsd.edu (Jim Napier)
Newsgroups: rec.travel
Subject: Louisville, Kentucky
Date: 31 Aug 92 22:53:57 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: AMEs Dept., UC San Diego


I have an aunt who's thinking about moving to Louisville, Kentucky after
spending most of her life in and around New York City and then the last
6 years in California. I don't know why she's thinking about Kentucky but
I thought I'd inquire about people's impressions of this area of the country.
She's hoping to live right in the city so she can take advantage of whatever
public transportation is available (she still works).

Thanks.

-- 
Jim Napier
Systems Administration
Applied Mechanics & Engineering Sciences Dept.
UC San Diego
jnapier@ucsd.edu
Jim Napier
Systems Administration
Applied Mechanics & Engineering Sciences Dept.
UC San Diego
Newsgroups: rec.travel
From: bayomi@bldghsc.lan1.umanitoba.ca (Dennis Bayomi)
Subject: Travel Clubs to correspond with Winnipeg Travel Club
Organization: Computer Department, Medicine, Univ. of Manitoba
Date: Wed, 2 Sep 1992 23:06:13 GMT

Hello fellow travellers.  I put together the newsletter for the Winnipeg 
Travel Club, a non-profit/volunteer-run group of travellers sharing their 
travel experiences through newsletter articles and slide shows. 

We'd be interested in establishing links with travel clubs in other cities 
for exchanging newsletters and possibly organizing travel exchanges.

Are there travel clubs in your cities ?

Dennis
bayomi@bldghsc.lan1.umanitoba.ca
Winnipeg, CANADA
From: Steve_Lammert@transarc.com
Newsgroups: rec.travel
Subject: Lanc. PA -> Boston
Date: 25 Aug 92 21:19:59 GMT
Organization: Carnegie Mellon, Pittsburgh, PA

This weekend, I am moving my sister from Lancaster PA to Boston MA.
I've driven this route several times by auto, but never with a small truck
(U-Haul's little Toyota-based van, under 6000 gross).

Question:  would the above vehicle be allowed on the Hutchinson River Pky
and/or the Merritt Pky?  My sister hasn't been on these routes before,
and I consider them preferable to the I-95 or I-84 corridors.  But, I
don't remember whether the restriction is "Passenger Cars Only", or
something more mundane (like a height restriction).

TIA.

 ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
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  Facilities Coordinator | 707 Grant Street     | Voice:     +1 412 338-4443
  Transarc Corporation   | Pittsburgh PA  15219 | FAX:       +1 412 338-4404
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         "No matter where you go, there you are." -- Buckaroo Banzai
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Newsgroups: rec.travel
From: jamesmit@iti.gov.sg (James Mitchell)
Subject: 2 Weeks in the Philippines - Tips wanted
Organization: Information Technology Institute, National Computer Board, S'pore
Date: Mon, 31 Aug 1992 09:15:17 GMT

Hello,

I will be travelling to the Philippines for 2 weeks in November.  I will
be travelling with 2 others, and we plan to do it on the cheap (see
Australian traveller definition in this news group).  

The initial plan is to fly into Manila (as if we have a choice!) spend 3
days there with a day trip to Lake Taal.  We will then be going to
Baguio in the Northen Highlands of Luzon, and spend 3-4 days there in
the very pleasant coolness (apparently down to 5 degrees at night).
Next we will be off to Bicol down in the south of Luzon to climb the
Mayon Volcano (active - quite active).  This Volcano is said to be the
most perfect example of a conical volcano, it will take 3 days to climb
and get back down.

Next off to Palawan, which is like right off the beaten track with every
tropical disease you can name to boot.  Palawan is not often visited by
travellers (I use the term traveller because I hate being classed as
one of those adventurous types who tour in aircon coaches and spend the
night in nothing less than 4 stars).  It has a national park where
Elephants, zebra and giraffes run freely - they say its like Africa.
There are also some very plesant beaches to sit and veg out on.

So the usual question is "has anybody been there recently?" Tell me your
woes and goodtimes, ie some form of trip report.  There seems to have
been very little trip reporting going on in this group recently.  I like
reading other people's trip reports, so send them to the group.

Thanks
-- 
| James Mitchell                   | jamesmit@iti.gov.sg       |
| Information Technology Institute | jamesmit@itivax.bitnet    |
| National Computer Board          |                           |
| Singapore                        |  "I hate Quotes" - Anon   |
Newsgroups: rec.travel
From: martin@megadata.mega.oz.au (Martin Corr)
Subject: Re: Loud irritating obtrusive American tourists.
Originator: martin@job
Organization: Megadata P/L, North Ryde, Sydney, Aust.
Date: Thu, 27 Aug 1992 01:51:27 GMT

From article <287@chorus.chorus.fr>, by grob@opera.chorus.fr (Lori Grob):
> I think that what's true is that everyone notices tourists
> from their own country and thinks that they are the worst
> behaved. After that comes people who speak the same language
> or a similar language.
>
I must say that, as an Australian, I have cringed with the occasional
behavior of Australians overseas esp Munich, London, Bali and any plane
connecting these destinations.

Perhaps it is not the culture of origin, but how that culture mixes with
the culture being visited. Something explodes in the mind at strange
locations. For example:

British in Spain
Germans in the Maldives
Americans in Panama (sorry, had to have one shot)

I have never really had any problems with tourists to oz. The Japanese
disappoint me with their style of travel but I understand and accept the
reasons behind it.

The point is that when travelling, we should try to blend in a little
more and not take so much of our own culture wuth us. You see more and
learn more when you open your mind to other possibilities.

Martin
 
Xref: sparky rec.travel:12800 soc.culture.usa:7056