From: ksm@abb-sc.abb-sc.com (Ashley)
Newsgroups: alt.pagan
Subject: Re: Space, the final frontier
Date: 6 Jan 93 21:12:29 GMT
Organization: Kaos Laboratories



Mark - 

	I felt your post required me to respond. I'm not going to 
argue any more on the space vs environmentalism thread that still rages, 
but I wanted to answer your questions.

In article <1993Jan5.192441.10987@radian.uucp>, markbr%radian@natinst.com 
(markbr) writes...

>On a related subject, I suspect there's a good chance several of you may have
>missed a post I made late last month; certainly, I've seen neither reference
>nor reaction to it. I will, therefore, restate it.
> 
>What *is* the purpose of the argument? Is it:
> 	a) to convince the doubters that space is the answer to everything?
>		(and I *still* haven't seen anyone claim this); or

	Can't speak for others, but the point I have tried to make is 
that space exploration and/or industry is not going to save the 
envronment and should *not* be our first priority. To begin with, it 
wouldn't happen in time to head off the impending global changes. The 
earth is on the brink and if we continue to destry the ecosphere the way 
we have then we really ARE done for. Social and technological change 
must happen immediately to prevent a global change that will destroy the 
human species.

	Perfection of existing technology to a state where the resourses 
we use are renewable (not the same as reycylable) is what we should be 
devoting the main focus of our R&D to. Not technology reduction but 
change and evolution of our sciences. I see this in a larger 
evolutionary picture.


>	b) to convince some of us that have wanted space our entire lives
>		to completely forget our dreams, that it's all fulla shit,
>		and to wait until everything down here is perfect 
>		(i.e., forever)?
> 
>Well?
> 
>	mark
>  


	Sorry you percieve this. That has not been my intent or the 
intent of anybody else that I have seen. I know that I and some others 
have wanted to pull a few heads out of the clouds, some of the blind 
assertions made here have been rediculous. My information gathering 
trip to the heart of the space industries has shown me just how realistic 
a lot of these ideas are. And I don't buy the argument that these people 
are turning a blind eye to better technologies as part of a conspiracy 
to keep the expensive rockets making money for them. That's a lot 
like the story that Detroit designed a car that runs on water in the 
60's, but keeps it under wraps so that the gasoline industries won't 
go broke.

	I wish I had saved the post but someone here refered to the 
Earth as a restrictive cradle that we have a manifest destiny to leave 
or somthing like that. That kind of crap is what makes the idea of the 
space frontier ugly to environmentalists. Imagine disregarding the 
Earth in favor of playing in the stars! Ugh! The idea of using up the 
Earth and then moving on is vile and disgusting and seems to be 
something that some people on this thread have no objection to. 
And I thought Pagans where Earth religionist people! Mankind needs the 
Earth on a cross next?

	None the less I would have you keep dreaming, as dreams fuel the 
future, but from what I have leaned by talking to the folks working on 
Space Station Freedom and other projects, you and I aren't going to travel 
to the stars or even the planets in this lifetime. I'm sorry if that is 
disheartening, but that is the reality of it as far as I have learned. 
We can send robots to explore for us though. Hell, we already sent one 
to Mars. 

	These are some of the points I have tried to make. Does this 
summary help?


		Havest moons and coyote songs to you,

				- Ashley