HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: rot@multisys.com (Republic of Taiwan)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.taiwan
Subject: Re: Question about TI
Date: 12 Sep 1992 23:13:46 -0500
Organization: Multimedia Information Systems Corporation, San Jose, CA                        TEL: (408) 436-8929            E-mail: info@multisys.com
NNTP-Posting-Host: cs.utexas.edu

In article <1992Sep13.013551.24255@leland.Stanford.EDU> claudius@leland.Stanford.EDU (Nelson Lu) writes:
=Nice equation.  Chinese = CCP = evil.  Where have we seen that one before?
="The Soviet Union is an Evil Empire."

If one is evil, one can see evil from Saint Marry.
No wonder Marry cries often these day.  ;-)

=And let me remind you, we are long past the era of McCarthyism.

I don't want to get into, will US put Chinese-American or
American-China in the concentration camp like they did to Japanese
in the war time or not, please.

I wrote,
=>Don't know how they gonner fight each other when
=>your left side meets your right side in the battle ground.  ;-)
=
=Face it, by making yourself known as a Sinophobic, you are are only showing
=a reason why TI is not feasible; since many TIers appear to be Sinophobic, they
=will probably not try to maintain a good relationship with mainland; rather,
=they will provoke the Communists with words and actions.  Not a good way to
=ensure that Taiwan does not become ruled by those Communist, student-killers.

TI-ers will certainly thank you for your support.  ;-)
Or are you one of the TI-ers, cuz you seems know them
pretty well and you even know what they will do.

I wrote,,
=>Also, how you gonner split something in your body which
=>only has one.   ;-(
=
=There is no way to split.  What do you think the Jews in this country will
=do if there is a war between the United States and Israel?  The answer is,
=nothing, since a war between the U. S. and Israel will never happen, thanks
=to these hard working Jews, who work hard to preserve good relations between
=the two nations to whom they pay allegiance to.

Talk about people don't have humor.

You seems extremely found of 'never'.
Are you 'read my lip' second?

=And, if a war does happen, I don't doubt that the Jewish-Americans will be just

Geez, you are turning much faster than Bush. Bush at least
wait couple years to become a lier. You in the other hand,
change just in a few lines.
You just said US will NEVER have war with Iserael and now you said
there has a war between US and Iserael.

I guess, Bush should be 'read my lip' second, and you should
be 'read my lip' first.

=as loyal as the German-Americans and Japanese-Americans who fought for this
=country during the war.  Those German-Americans probably viewed Hitler in the
=same light that we here are viewing the Communist government in Beijing; i. e.,
=an autocratic, oppressive, "evil" regime.  I view myself as a "Chinese-
=American from Taiwan."  If a war between the United States and China erupts,
=you know which nation I will fight for.

I don't know people in Taiwan will happy about 'read my lip' first -
Mr Cloudy, from Taiwan or not, but Taiwanese certainly extremely dislike
'read my lip' second - Bush.
From: chou@cs.washington.edu (Pai Hsiang Chou)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.taiwan
Subject: Re: Language
Date: 4 Sep 92 21:40:27 GMT
Article-I.D.: beaver.1992Sep4.214027.3726
Organization: Computer Science & Engineering, U. of Washington, Seattle

In article <BtynsD.40p@multisys.com> rot@multisys.com (Republic of Taiwan) writes:
>As to HoLo, one theory of that is, Why they are  called  HoLo  or
>call themselve HoLo?

A name does not have to have a meaning.
And a transliterated name does not even have to have
the meaning even though the characters themselves
may have some other meaning.  I already cited the
example of "Portugal" {pu2 tau2 ya2} which does not 
have anything to do with "grapes."


>Ho in HanZi is river and in ancient Han the only  river  we  call
>'river' is yellow river.

This is only one of the 6 or 7 ways it can be
written.  The other are

{ fu2 } (as in Fujian),
{ he4 } (a bird), { xue2 } ("learn"), { ge } ("cat" + "ge3" }

The association of "river Lo-water" and H"ol"o is something
quite recent, largely motivated by politics.  It was never
seen before the Ch`ing dynasty.
The "river Lo-water" association was advocated by Wu2 Kuei2
and Lin2 Ben3 Yuen2 after WWII.  In 1955 Wu2 Kuei2 published
"Tang/Song stories in H"ol"o and Minnan Languages"
which was consistent with the political and sinitized people's
expectation at the time, therefore it was well received.
(i.e. H"ol"o people have been taught non-Han rank at the
bottom of the social ladder, and being purer Han was supposed
to be a good thing; for the ruler, if the people are told
they are Han then it's a good excuse for unification with China).

But in Tang dynasty it was written as

--
\\/   /___     \ /  ---+---
/-\  / \ /      X    \/ \/
 / |    X      / \   /---\
  /|   /-\      /|  /|---|\
   |  /|_|\     /    -----
                      /J\

(from Zhang1zhou1fu3zhi4, vol.24, TangGaoZong Year 2)

(I wish I have tools to help me draw these characters
more easily) The characters have changed over the years
but the colloquial sound remained the same. The recent
association of {river Lo-water} with H"ol"o has
little historical basis, and really cannot explain
the linguistic issues I raised in an earlier article
a few days ago.

For a good historical discussion please refer to
_Taiwanese Literature and Taiwanese Writing System_
by Ang Uijin (Hong Weiren), Feb 1992, pp173-178.


>HoLo means 'the people from HoLo',
>
>If netters wanner know more about HoLo and HaGa, I  can  dig  out
>all my reference. This is real 'culture' subject. :-)


Please do cite your references.


>Sorry, one way to increase the self-confidence of our mother tone is
>degrade the oppressor.
>

I am not sure if it's the right attitude.
There is nothing wrong with being "less Han" than you were taught.


Pai
Newsgroups: soc.culture.taiwan
From: hong@mbfys.kun.nl (Hong Zhou)
Subject: Looking for a friend at Texas A&M Univ.
Organization: University of Nijmegen
Date: Sat, 5 Sep 1992 13:26:26 GMT

Hi Everyone out Texas,

I am in search of the address/telephone number of a friend
whose name is Elsje Verhagen. She is a graduate student majoring
in Education at Texas A&M Univ. If you can help me to locate 
her, please drop me a message. Your help is deeply appreciated. 

Thanks in advance, 

Hong Zhou
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
Hong Zhou            |-----|    \       Dept. of Med. Physics & Biophysics
Muzenplaats 30       |__|__| |-----|    University of Nijmegen
6525 JA Nijmegen     | _|_ |  --|--     6525 EZ Nijmegen, The Netherlands
The Netherlands      |  _  |   / 	
                     | |_| |  / /       Tel.   +31-80-614230
Tel. +31-80-556412  /     \|   /__\     email: hong@mbfys.kun.nl
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: yangze@acf3.NYU.EDU (Ze Yang, , , )
Newsgroups: soc.culture.taiwan
Subject: Re: News readers from ROT(Re: Hello from news reader in China)
Date: 9 Sep 92 00:12:00 GMT
Organization: New York University

ghe@nyx.cs.du.edu (George He) writes:

>If what Mr. Yang said is true --- CCP's crash brings major disorder
>to mainland, why would Taiwanese choose to unify with a more messy mainland,
>even though it's lousy enough now?

You think Taiwanese can choose everything they want, that is wrong `
at the first place, you have to play the game according the rules, right?
just like the Southern states of the USA don't have the freedom of suceding,
Taiwan can not do that either. You might say the southern states
did choose sucede from the Union before the Civil War, but the
Union "chose" fight to keep the Union.

Ze Yang
Newsgroups: soc.culture.taiwan
From: sala8864@hgc.edu (gustavo salas)
Subject: Re: a joke, just a joke
Organization: The Hartford Graduate Center
Date: Sun, 13 Sep 1992 22:35:31 GMT

In article <1992Sep13.013402.24557@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu> yewang@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (Yenwen Wang) writes:
>In article <1992Sep12.193548.16837@zip.eecs.umich.edu> cyc@quip.eecs.umich.edu (Yi-Chieh Chang) writes:
>>>>  Korea has already three major car-making company and another one has
>>>>  just started.  For taiwan, it was turned out to be impossible to build
>>>>  a car  they had to ride motercycle.  That is why there are many
>>>>  motorcycles in Taiwan.
>>>
>>>  Are you day dreaming? The Taiwanese government even worry about the lacking
>>>  of parking slots. As for the korean products, they give people the same
>>>  impression, cheap-price & worst-quality. There are NOTHING to be proud of.
>>>
>>
>>Then Taiwan may only produce high-price & no-quality cars.
>>Don't look down other people's achievement, don't look up too much on your
>>own achievement. Even talking about IC industry, Taiwan is in no comparison
>>with South Korea. Many people believe South Korea may become another Japan 
>>in the future, Taiwan is never on that track.
>>
>>Yi-Chieh
>
>What kind of defeatism is this? S. Korea does have something I admire,
>but this kind of defeatism is what's blocking Taiwan's progress :-(
>
>I was in Seoul last summer and I learned firsthand why Koreans are
>able to keep 3 auto manufacturers: I saw only 3 Japanese cars in
>an entire day. Everyone drives either a Hyundai, Kia or Daewoo.
>THey have a price to pay, though. Most models are from older designs.
>Also I heard the engines in Hyundai are designed by Mitsubishi. Take
>a look at Excel, they look just like Mitsubishi Precis.
>

I need to elaborate the statement above. Yes, old models of Hyundai excel
look like Mitsubishi Precis. Hyundai could make the engine for excel, but
have some technical problems to fix their engine to pass US test to
export and they asked several auto makers in Japan for help, but only
Mitsubish was willing to help because others felt Hyundai will be their
competetor in the future. Mitsubish thought Hyundai will make the engine
with or without their help in few years and decided to be friend of Hyundai
not an enemy. The body of Excel was designed by an Italian designer who
also designed Feralli(sp?) and Hyundai allowed Mitsubish use the design
in return for their help. That was the story behind those twin cars.
From: rot@multisys.com (Republic of Taiwan)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.taiwan
Subject: Re: Air fare to Taiwan???
Date: 14 Sep 1992 06:44:12 -0500
Organization: Multimedia Information Systems Corporation, San Jose, CA                        TEL: (408) 436-8929            E-mail: info@multisys.com
NNTP-Posting-Host: cs.utexas.edu

In article <BuK3qJ.I47.2@cs.cmu.edu> tsen+@EDRC.CMU.EDU (Chung Kang Tsen) writes:
=
=Hi s.c.t. netters,
=
=I am planning to go back to Taiwan to visit my family in december, and 
=I would like to know what are the current air fare from different airlines,
=and also what are the good deals for air tickets.
=
=I appreciate any kind of help, since it's hard for me to get informations about travel agency promotions and sales to Taiwan here from Pittsburgh. I am sure people from other parts of U.S. have better access to this kind of information (i.e, CA, NY, OR, etc...).
=
=Thanks in advance,
=
=     Tsen

It is $4??(449 or 499) SF <-> Taipei round trip on the
Word General Ads.
From: li@sicvax.enet.dec.com (Tong-Kang Li)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.taiwan
Subject: Re: Bush or Clinton?
Date: 10 Sep 92 16:51:54 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: Digital Equipment Corporation


In article <22267@galaxy.ucr.edu>, lulu@ucrengr.ucr.edu (david lu) writes...
>I'm interested in knowing which candidate the
>readers of soc.culture.taiwan would vote for.
>I know that there are probably some (a lot?)
>of people reading this group who are not US
>citizens, but let's just pretend for a moment
>that you can vote.
> 
>Bush: Well-known for protecting PROC.  Agreed
>	to sell Taiwan some very-outdated
>	fighter aircraft only because he wants
>	the Texas vote.  But if he gets re-
>	elected, at least there's a chance
>	that he might carry his promise of
>	selling the aircrafts through.
> 
>Clinton: Concentrate on domestic issues, and
>	less on foreign aid and involvement.
>	This might also mean reductions in
>	immigration/import to protect the
>	American workers.  He's more anti-PROC,
>	but that doesn't mean he'll treat Taiwan
>	any better.
> 
>So, who do you think is the lesser evil?
> 
>			- David
> 
>-- 
>---==lulu@ucrengr==---  just another overworked graduate student.
>David T Lu, Amateur Thinker: lulu@ucrengr.ucr.edu, {ucsd, uci}!ucrengr!lulu
>"I seem to be having tremendous difficulty with my lifestyle."
>					- Arthur Dent, Hitchhiker's

I would vote for Clinton not because Clinton is better than Bush but the Party
based on the following reasons:

1. Pat Buchanan, Dan Quayle, Jerry Falwell, and David Duke (ex-KKK member) 
   etc have taught me something about the Republican Party.
2. To me, Republican so called "family values" is a cover-up of economic
   failure. 
3. Republican party divides people. I remembered a group of Republicans using
   Willie Horton as nasty campaign tactics during 1988. This year, same group 
   of people tried same tactics to attack Clinton's personal life (without
   much success).
4. Pro-Choice, Women rights, Minority etc policies make me favor Democratic 
   Party.
5. During Reagan years, the rich are richer and the poor are poorer. Trillion 
   dollars of deficits has made America as #1 debt nation in the world. 
6. Democratic Party has shifted from liberal toward more moderate. 
7. If Bush gets ill, Dan Quayle becomes President... Unthinkable.

As for economy, I doubt Clinton can do much better than Bush but certainly 
wont be worse because Mr. Bush did little after the Gulf War.

As for Taiwan/China policy, I doubt Clinton will change the current policy 
much maybe a bit friendly toward Taiwan.

I feel sorry for Mrs. Bush. She is certainly much more pleasant than Nancy 
Reagan. Hillary Clinton? I am a little worried. Well, nothing perfect, right?
From: H.Wang@bradford.ac.uk (H WANG)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.taiwan
Subject: RE: ~{N'Fe3LPr~}
Date: 11 Sep 92 14:05:00 GMT
Organization: University of Bradford, UK
Originator: 90908648@ccw204



Here is some info:

>    PCIGC 3.9 is now available by anonymous ftp from ftp.u.washington.edu.
>This version incorporates most of the updates to the unix igc .52 including 
>peek, who sorting, games with m6, komi and handicap displays etc. PCIGC 3.9 
>also includes a setup menu and automatically generated configuration files.
>(Set the options once and they will stay the same next time you run PCIGC.)
>The file pcigc39z.exe is a self-extracting zip file that will create the 
>executable and documentation files. PCIGC has been compiled to be run on XT 
>machines as well as later models. To use the graphic displays you need an EGA 
>or VGA monitor. You can use a Microsoft mouse to play with.

subscribe to `rec.games.go' to find more, and enjoy!

P.S. 1)Don't play it during rush hours!
     2)Forget 1) if U'r using your own PC.
Newsgroups: soc.culture.taiwan
From: hengyi@ec.ecn.purdue.edu (Heng-Yi Chao)
Subject: Re: Need some Pen Friends
Organization: Purdue University Engineering Computer Network
Date: Wed, 9 Sep 1992 04:48:53 GMT

In article <1992Sep7.010259.19588@ulowell.ulowell.edu> cshi@cs.ulowell.edu (Chunde Shi) writes:
>In article <1992Sep6.122011.28700@csd.brispoly.ac.uk> c_tsai@csd.brispoly.ac.uk (C Tsai) writes:
>>Hello everybody:
(deleted)
>>   Name: Chi-Lih TSAI
>>   Age:  24
>>   Sex:  Male
>         You need a bitch! That is why you are crying for "friends".
	^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>>   Matrial Status: Single
>>   Email address: zomalacolg@ccvax.as.edu.tw
>>   Occupation: Student ( Msc of Biology in National Taiwan University. )
>>   Hobby: Growing orchids, feed fish and Collecting stamps.......
>>
(deleted)

Can you have at least a little bit of "respect" ?
Though I am not the young man who is rudly insulted,
I feel angry for him.
What's wrong with looking for friends ?
I don't see any sexual or impolite statements in his post.
If you are interested, just reply it.
Otherwise, skip it.

Is "Chinese Culture"="blame, ugly insult" ?
Newsgroups: soc.culture.taiwan
From: changht@eecs.nwu.edu (Hsin-Ter Chang)
Subject: Re: Mirage 2000-5 Details!
Organization: EECS Department, Northwestern University, Evanston, Il., USA
Distribution: usa
Date: Fri, 11 Sep 1992 05:55:57 GMT

Now, this is what I called INFORMATION, well done my friend, looking forward to
your follow-up on this issue.

9-11-92
H.T. chang
From: rot@multisys.com (Republic of Taiwan)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.taiwan
Subject: Re: Language
Date: 10 Sep 1992 14:41:07 -0500
Organization: UTexas Mail-to-News Gateway
NNTP-Posting-Host: cs.utexas.edu

Don't know why people always want to talk nonsense.
 
In article <1992Sep4.214027.3726@beaver.cs.washington.edu> chou@cs.washington.ed
u (Pai Hsiang Chou) writes:
=
=A name does not have to have a meaning.
 
A name does not have to have NOT a meaning.
 
(Who starts this stupid argument? ;-( )
 
=And a transliterated name does not even have to have
=the meaning even though the characters themselves
=may have some other meaning.  I already cited the
 
And a transliterated name does not even have to have
NOT the meaning even though the characters themselves
may have some other meaning.
 
(Why people always want to repeat stupid arguments?)
 
=example of "Portugal" {pu2 tau2 ya2} which does not 
=have anything to do with "grapes."
 
I hate my neighbor's dog. So I call it Chou.
 
=>Ho in HanZi is river and in ancient Han the only  river  we  call
=>'river' is yellow river.
=
=This is only one of the 6 or 7 ways it can be
=written.  The other are
=
={ fu2 } (as in Fujian),
={ he4 } (a bird), { xue2 } ("learn"), { ge } ("cat" + "ge3" }
 
Have you evev been to Taiwan? Have you ever worship your
anscestors? Have you ever visit your ancestors' tombs?
I don't know where the word Fu Jian came from, but I do
see a lot of Ho Lo(yellow rive, Lo water) lying everywhere.
 
=The association of "river Lo-water" and H"ol"o is something
=quite recent, largely motivated by politics.  It was never
=seen before the Ch`ing dynasty.
 
I guess your theory is largely motivated by politics.
 
Man was never seen flying before Chin dynasty. So what
are those stuffs doing in the sky. They certainly are
not flying, because 'man can fly' never been seen
before the Chin dynasty.
 
(Why people always make stupid arguments?   ;-))
 
=But in Tang dynasty it was written as
=
=--
=\\/   /___     \ /  ---+---
=/-\  / \ /      X    \/ \/
= / |    X      / \   /---\
=  /|   /-\      /|  /|---|\
=   |  /|_|\     /    -----
=                      /J\
=(from Zhang1zhou1fu3zhi4, vol.24, TangGaoZong Year 2)
 
Another stupid argument, those people have to stay
ther for thousands years in order to be called Ho Lo by you.
 
So if people in Taiwan was called XYZ in Tang dynasty,
then we have to call Taiwanese XYZ because of your
theory.
 
 
=I am not sure if it's the right attitude.
=There is nothing wrong with being "less Han" than you were taught.
 
Have I ever said less Han is evil?
I WAS taught about KMT's glorious empire LOST.  ;-(
 
 
=
=
=Pai
Newsgroups: soc.culture.taiwan,soc.culture.china,soc.culture.hongkong
From: leung@DSG.Tandem.COM (Steven Leung)
Subject: Re: The AutuMid-Autumn Festival
Organization: Tandem Computers
Date: Fri, 11 Sep 1992 18:29:21 GMT

lix@xanadu.bu.edu (Xiaowen Li) writes:

> Unfotunately, Ms. Chang-O's life is miserable on the Moon. According to
> Tang Dunasty's record, before she decided to have drug and fly to the moon,
> she visited a "Ri Zhei", and the "Gua" was:
> 
> Pian Pian Gui Mei, ( A beautiful lady )
> Du Jiang Xi Xin. (is going to west along)
> Wu Jing Wu Kong, (Don't be scared, don't fear)
> Hou Quei Da Chang ( she will get prosperity later)

Well, if it is a "Gua," then at best it is a prediction, but you sound
like it is a fact and use it to support your claim that Lady Chang's
life is miserable on the moon. Besides, the Ri stuff may not work on moon,
because the moon only has 1/6 of our earth's gravity.

> After she arrived at the moon, she found she got fatter and fatter. She finally
> found herself becoming a "Nai Xia Ma" (a kind of frog living on land).

Now, you really need to show some evidence to support this. Some may
think that this is originated from Hou Yih, but I suspect that this
could be a rumor spread by Lady Chang's Qing2(love) Di2(opponent) ...


shanwang@sara.cc.utu.fi writes:

&&>>	The Jade Rabbit makes medicine ( maybe just the pill Chang O ate )

I don't know about this. Any more info.?

&&>>	Wu Gang is a dismissed saint cause of some mistakes. He lives in there
&&>>	for a long time. It's said that he cut the Gui-Hua tree. But that tree
&&>>	couldn't be cut off actually. So he does it for a long time. It's said

I only know about the cutting Gui-Hua tree part. I still remember my mom
pointing to the moon during the festival to show us Wu Gang and the
tree. But I don't know how Wu Gang get there at the first place. Does anybody
know? For example, what mistakes? Who is there first, Lady Chang or Wu? Why
is Wu sent to the moon (instead of other place)? etc. Although I don't
doubt about the story of Wu Gang cutting the tree (because I do _see_ it!),
I do wonder whether Wu is still working or doing something else when the light 
goes off the moon? Kinda suspicious things going on there ...

&&>>	Wu Gang are also good on making Cui4-Hua1 Wine?

Well, Lao Mao said Wu Gang has this Gui-Hua Wine, but I don't know whether
Lao Mao has any supporting document to say that. Never mind, Gui Hua Chen
is real good, but unfortunately, you probably can't get that in funland. :(

Steven
------
328. Seek opportunity, not security. ...
        - Life's Little Instruction Book by H. J. Brown, Jr.
From: cyc@z.eecs.umich.edu (Yi-Chieh Chang)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.taiwan
Subject: Re: Question about TI
Date: 8 Sep 92 18:40:03 GMT
Organization: University of Michigan EECS Dept., Ann Arbor

>>Well, I WAS a TI supportor.  Maybe I was too young.  I used to support
>>Dang3(party)Wai4(outer) and donate my money to them back to the 70's.  When
>>I came to U.S. I still jointed TI meetings. Ironically , I found a rule
>>"CCP= KMT= TI".  
>>It is strange they fight each other, but they are so similar.  They are so
>>narrow minded, they are so power hunger, and they are so blood thirsty. 
>>Somebody tell me it is Chinese nature, and they are Chinese so they share
>>the same character.  Somebody say it is human nature.  People got to "eat"
>>people that is the way to eliminate the "weaker" and keep the society
>>stronger.  Somebody say it is animal nature.  See even monkeys in the zoo
>>will fight for power.
>> 
>>To those minorities (mainders, Hakkas, and Native Taiwanese) in Taiwan, my
>>suggestion is that vote for your own independence from TIers and build your
>>own country/countries.  Do NOT expect TIers will treat you fair.  That is
>>my experence, a costly experence.  Good Luck.
>

I have no doubt about people are hunger for power and money, even at U.S.
we can see the same story such as George Bush.
But, the question is when we have choice between candicates or two parties,
even a minority group may have strong enfluence on the outcome of a close
election. So, the best thing for Taiwanese including minorities is to have
two strong parties that can compete fairly to each other. Then, I bet every
single man or woman will be respected and asked to vote for either party, 
because the win and lose may be differed by one vote.
However, under current cituation, KMT can largely ignore 10% to 20%
minorities but still win most of the elections. So, no matter how bad DPP
might be, it will definitely be much better than what we have now, with no
choice.

Yi-Chieh 
Newsgroups: soc.culture.taiwan