HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: keith@getafix.cs.uoregon.edu (Keith Steiger)
Newsgroups: rec.games.netrek
Subject: Re: More Questions on the Cutting EDGE
Date: 26 Jan 93 23:44:28 GMT
Organization: University of Oregon Computer and Information Sciences Dept.

In article <1k4epk$put@agate.berkeley.edu> beorn@berkeley.edu writes:
>Robert Hill (aka Spaceace!) <hill@norman.VI.RI.CMU.EDU> writes:
>-  Brian Paulsen writes
>-  > In article <63677@mimsy.umd.edu> leonard@mimsy.umd.edu writes:
>-  > Sit at warp 0?  How many people have warp 0 mapped to anything?  The 
>-  > only way I can get to warp 0 is by hitting repair.
>-  I also.
>Me too!

I haven't felt any need to remap 0 to anything, so I imagine it's still on `0'.
Would have to check, though--even when trying to regain fuel, I go warp 1 or 2,
simply because I've been pegged too many times.

>OK, back to the auto-repair mode question:
>	Someone suggested that you go into repair mode as soon as you
>	reduce warp and until you reach your desired speed.  If you are
>	moving and hit "R" (or whatever for repair mode) you don't
>	go into repair mode until you hit warp 0.

Certainly the "R" flag comes on immediately.  This is not arguable.  The
question is whether the effect comes on until you hit warp 0, or whether it
starts repairing immediately.  I have no idea, and I'm not interested in
ftp-ing the server code to find out.

Since the people in this discussion haven't been lightweights, I will presume
(and have presumed) that using repair in this fashion does indeed remove a
point or two of damage.

	Keith Steiger
	(who would like a server to install his key so he can start using it)
	"I should really start doing my homework instead of hacking netrek."
Organization: Senior, Chemical Engineering, Carnegie Mellon, Pittsburgh, PA
Newsgroups: rec.games.netrek
Date: Wed, 27 Jan 1993 15:09:11 -0500 
From: Kevin Michael Bernatz <kb32+@andrew.cmu.edu>
Subject: Re: Halftime
	<1k29qh$fcq@agate.berkeley.edu>

Excerpts from netnews.rec.games.netrek: 26-Jan-93 Re: Halftime Tom
Holub@soda.berkeley. (1787)

> You don't want to see Duke win all the time, do you?

They haven't.... in fact they've lost 3 times so far.  Unlike the much
superior UNLV team that was dicked by (well,  I won't get into that...)

-KB
 Dah Runnnnnnnnnen Rebs
From: tom@soda.berkeley.edu (Tom Holub)
Newsgroups: rec.games.netrek
Subject: Re: New Season : INL Council READ THIS
Date: 25 Jan 1993 00:16:03 GMT
Organization: U.C. Berkeley, CS Undergraduate Association
NNTP-Posting-Host: soda.berkeley.edu

In article <MfMknP600VpaQTb1Nr@andrew.cmu.edu> Kevin Michael Bernatz <kb32+@andrew.cmu.edu> writes:
)Ok guys,
)	What's the plan on the scheduling for next season?  Does anyone have
)any idea yet?

This will be the first thing the new INL Council decides; the winners
of the elections for the two remaining seats will be announced within
a day or two.
 -Tom
Organization: Sponsored account, School Of Computer Science, Carnegie Mellon, Pittsburgh, PA
Newsgroups: rec.games.netrek
Date: Fri, 22 Jan 1993 18:23:36 -0500 
From: Sean Christopher Simmons <ss72+@andrew.cmu.edu>
Subject: Halftime

	Seeing that no one made much response to Tom's bringing up halftime, I
thought that I would.  My oppinions haven't changed much on the matter,
so I'll be brief.  
	If there is a halftime, I think that it would be best to make it
optional.  I would STRONGLY prefer that the default be no halftime. 
Certainly, there is no reason for it to be manditory.
	If there is to be a halftime, there is no reason for it to be a *poof*
halftime.  It should just be a freeze.  The *poof* completely upsets the
game, destroying kills, killing armies, and possibly making it
impossible to regain a base.  Personally, I'd like to see overtime done
with a freeze instead of a *poof*, but I think that I can bring that up
later.

ZZnew guy



Newsgroups: rec.games.netrek
From: ahabig@bigbang.astro.indiana.edu (Alec Habig)
Subject: Re: Scattered Pops in INL- I vote NO!
Organization: Indiana University Astrophysics, Bloomington, IN
Distribution: rec
Date: Tue, 26 Jan 1993 06:52:07 GMT

In article <C1FIL0.KI7.1@cs.cmu.edu> spot@CS.CMU.EDU (Scott Draves) writes:
>ok, i agree the "interestingness" of the decisions are basically the
>same.  let me give another argument, one that has to do with enjoying
>the game.  the slow pop means that these decisions change over time,
>in a cycle.  this adds a rhythm to the game that i find enjoyable.
>
>can you give a compelling reason to *change* the game?  as far as i
>can see this is simply a matter of personal preference.

I guess we just disagree here.   I find the servers with the 10 second pops
more enjoyable - I just don't like the pops all happening at once.  As for
changing the game, the difference between 10 sec/1sec/poisonnian is mostly
esthetic.

The INL code (which is what this thread started with) is at 40 sec now.  The
real question is what to do with this.  It was originally suggested that since
most servers used 10 sec. pops, that the INL server, which is supposed to
reflect netrek in general, would better do so if it was also 10 sec.

>me> if you're interested in cleanliness, just flip a fucking coin.
>
>Alec> Huh?
>
>not to determine pops.  flip a coin instead of playing netrek.

This is plain asinine.

	Alec
	(Entropy)
From: fadden@uts.amdahl.com (Andy McFadden)
Newsgroups: rec.games.netrek
Subject: Re: glossary
Date: 21 Jan 93 22:37:35 GMT
Organization: Amdahl Corporation, Sunnyvale CA

In article <1jkllmINNhgi@wyatt.ksu.ksu.edu> tundra@wyatt.ksu.ksu.edu (Daniel G. McDaniel) writes:
>>You've taken the next step when you start attracting *multiple* oggers
>>whenever you have a kill.
>>
>
>Next step is when they ogg you just because they recognize your name...

Next step is when they leave the game when you show up (can you say "MUCUS"?)

>--Tundra/Dan | "look at the rabbits George" --> Mice and Men
		"Brook no bad habits, LaForge"

-- 
fadden@uts.amdahl.com (Andy McFadden)
[ Above opinions are mine, Amdahl has nothing to do with them, etc, etc. ]
From: JGR@ECLX.PSU.EDU (Jim Reisman)
Newsgroups: rec.games.netrek
Subject: Last Call for INHL (hockey) Season
Date: 25 Jan 93 22:39:06 GMT
Article-I.D.: atlantis.$*21H!wm4c
Organization: Penn State Engineering Computer Lab
X-News-Reader: VMS NEWS 1.24



   The teams for the Spring INHL (hockey) Season are going to be
selected by a random draft Wendsday Evening.  If you wish to be 
placed on an INHL team for this Spring, and ARE NOT currently
on the INHL Mailing List. Send email to: jgr@ecl.psu.edu

Jim R.
Ikko-ikki
Staying one step ahead of the INL.
Newsgroups: rec.games.netrek
From: tedebear@leland.Stanford.EDU (Theodore Chen)
Subject: Re: Twink auto-doosh (was an endless string of other stuff)
Organization: DSG, Stanford University, CA 94305, USA
Date: Mon, 25 Jan 93 07:14:22 GMT

>> fadden@uts.amdahl.com (Andy McFadden) writes:
>> >Anybody ever Chung a starbase?

after playing in a game that was utterly devoid of clue,
i have to admit that the idea has a certain attractiveness.
especially at the beginning where everybody's dogfighting
and nobody's bombing.  they'll never miss the armies, so
what's the difference?

just make sure you get close enough to the wall or you'll
wtemp before you do yourself in with those plasmas.

-teddy
estoppel, epiphany
Newsgroups: rec.games.netrek
From: ahabig@bigbang.astro.indiana.edu (Alec Habig)
Subject: Re: NBR proposal: "Pleiades"; not "Pliedes"
Organization: Indiana University Astrophysics, Bloomington, IN
Date: Fri, 22 Jan 1993 13:00:37 GMT

In article <5fZM03ATc9Mc00@amdahl.uts.amdahl.com> fadden@uts.amdahl.com (Andy McFadden) writes:
>Dare I to spout the usual:
>
>    NETREK IS NOT REALITY
>
>If we want a star called "Pliedes", we'll bloody well have a star called
>Pliedes.  Woe be to him/her/it who must now type "ple++" instead of the
>far easier "pli++" (note all with right hand).

Great.  Then for all you CS types, how about we change a few things about
netrek so as to further avoid reality.

I've never much liked the word "compiling".  How about "digesting".  Anybody
out there wanna digest us up an RSA binary for AIX?  (used to have an old copy
of Turbo Pascal that printed "Digesting..." when mangling your source - it also
had many other altered messages, good for a laugh or three).

Wait, there's another problem.  Binaries are star systems.  Gotta change that
too : how about binnary?  Or even better - bbiinnaarryy.  It's in the spirt of
things, and no one would ever confuse it with two great big balls of fusing
hydrogen. 

X-wendows?  ikons?  Sorse code?  If these were misspelled, it would annoy you.

While we're at it, let's make a few things easier to spell (after all, we are
entirely unconstrained by reality here).  Crooser, skout, lootenant, comadore,
Oriun, faser.  How does one spell "ogg", anyway?  1 "g" or 2?  Dan Quayle would
be proud of pliedes (but he might write it "pliedese").

	Alec
	(Entropy)

PS - Anybody wanna star named after them?  I got a list of zillions, and as
much authority as the next guy to name them.  Just send $$$ or DI, mail me for
details.

Newsgroups: rec.games.netrek
From: ahabig@bigbang.astro.indiana.edu (Alec Habig)
Subject: Re: SFB netrek
Organization: Indiana University Astrophysics, Bloomington, IN
Date: Wed, 27 Jan 1993 14:23:43 GMT

In article <1993Jan26.212443.18246@ucsu.Colorado.EDU> farrow@ucsu.Colorado.EDU (J. Scott Farrow) writes:
>books@fsunuc.physics.fsu.edu (Roger Books) writes:
>
>>I'm thinking about setting up an experimental server.  For those who
>>like to quote "netrek is not star trek" hit n now.
>
>Here, here! I would do it myself, but my boss would probably fire me on the
>spot. Why not a server that at least tries to reflect our beloved Star Trek
>world?

Wait!  Put on the brakes!  hmmm..., I've been wanting this opprotunity to rant
for a while....


SFB is not Star Trek!  SFB is "Star Fleet Battles", and holds the same
reelation to Star Trek as Netrek does (ie, they stole their ship pictures and
weapons there).  Thus, I think it would be a Really Cool Thing if Roger
implemented this (Roger, I'll help ya if I can).

>>Orions - have weaker plasmas than Roms and have weaker torps than feds.
>>	 Might have a double shields ability which would cost a set amount
>>	of fuel.  They could be replaced with Kzinti.  (Plasma type
>>	weapon that does smaller damage but can have multiple on the screen.)
>
>Trash the Orions entirely. How about Cardassians? (Kzinti? NOT!)

See Above (SFB, not Star Trek).  BTW, Kzinti have appeared in many more
episodes of Star Trek than Cardassians (if you count the cartoons, and I do :)

My sugestions for Kzinti in a netrek variant - drones are treated as small,
slow plasma, but you can launch a bundle (4?) of them at a time.  These blow up
when hit by phasers (as netrek plasmas do), where SFB/netrek plasmas (the
Rom's) merely lose some damage, and also lose damage with range.

As for the Disruptor/Photon problem, remember that photorps and disruptors are
both torpedo like weapons, which in SFB are resolved as direct fire.  If
photorps made the transition to netrek by becoming little flying dots, so can
disruptors (it's make things easier, too).  The difference between the two
weapon systems could be exactly like it is in SFB - photons do 2x the damage of
disruptors, but you can only fire them 1/2 as often.

	Alec
	(Entropy)

Organization: Junior, Math/Computer Science, Carnegie Mellon, Pittsburgh, PA
Newsgroups: rec.games.netrek
Date: Tue, 26 Jan 1993 11:45:34 -0500 
From: "Joseph E. Beck" <jb8n+@andrew.cmu.edu>
Subject: Re: From the CounCILboY: Your news reps are... [drum roll]
	<1993Jan26.012013@IASTATE.EDU>

e
xodus@IASTATE.EDU writes:
> In article <1993Jan25.203312.1811@coe.montana.edu>, osyjm@cs.montana.edu (Jaye
> Mathisen) writes:
> > 
> 
>   This is totally a joke. I think a new vote should be called. You
> people posted a list of cantidates for us to vote for, even though
> some of them didn't want to be elected. Those of us who voted for
> them didn't get a chance to vote for somebody else. I didn't keep
> the email address to recast my vote, and nobody responded to my
> RGN request for it, so my vote was lost. Many others may not have
> even realized that their votes were lost because they might not
> read RGN every day. INL should have mailed us back saying that
> person had dropped out. Looks at the pathetic number of votes! Please
> call a 2nd election! Nothing against the cantidates who ended up on
> top, but clearly this was all very poorly managed. The cantidates
> who fill these positions are, in fact, very important. Please see
> to this at once. Thank-you.
> 

As someone who's net broke during this period and was 3 days behind
the rest of the world I second this. 

	joe
	
Newsgroups: rec.games.netrek
From: colles@vccnw06.its.rpi.edu (Grey Knight (Shawn Collenburg))
Subject: Re: Ahem . . .
Date: Thu, 21 Jan 1993 18:52:47 GMT

hendric@matt.ksu.ksu.edu (Richard Hendricks) writes:

>jpd@tardis.msu.edu (Joe P. DeCello) writes:

>>]Not just 1, but _3_ scummers on at once.
>>]
>>]The things people do at 8 in the morning.
>>]
>>]-Bill Perry

I've done this sort of thing. A friend and I go to an EMPTY server and
screw around w/ new characters like "King of Scum" and "Queen of Scum" :)
If anyone shows up, and they ask us to leave, we do. 

Remember, rank/di/ratio is meaningless. (Defense isn't. If their defense
to high, they aren't dying enough)

Grey Knight
From: tom@soda.berkeley.edu (Tom Holub)
Newsgroups: rec.games.netrek
Subject: INL Scheduling: Points systems
Date: 27 Jan 1993 13:46:17 GMT
Organization: U.C. Berkeley, CS Undergraduate Association
Distribution: world
NNTP-Posting-Host: soda.berkeley.edu


  My scheduling proposal (which I'll redescribe if anyone cares) entails
combining a core INL schedule of 6 games with a point system to be
used on as many games as each team desires.  My half of the idea, I
have down pretty well, but I'd like to see some discussion on the
various points-based systems so I can pick one to package with my
proposal.  Mail me descriptions or post to the newsgroup; I haven't
been overly impressed or appalled by any of the systems proposed, so
I'm open to suggestions.  One thing; I want a system where everyone
starts with the same number of points.
 -Tom
Newsgroups: rec.games.netrek
From: bdhall@todd.ecn.purdue.edu (Brian D Hall)
Subject: Re: DD's need improvement!
Organization: Purdue University Engineering Computer Network
Date: Thu, 21 Jan 1993 20:51:21 GMT

In article <1jku7h$dd@agate.berkeley.edu> sfd@soda.berkeley.edu (Scott Drellishak) writes:
>You anti-DD people have convinced me.  DD's suck!  They're second best
>to at least one ship in every area.
>
>So, obviously, DD's need to be improved to make them viable.  I suggest
>35 point torps.
>
>It's time for you scout-loving, cruiser-stroking battleship-mongers to put
>your money where your foot is.
>-- 


	I vote no, and I'll tell you why....   Fife had the DD with 35pt torps
for a while.  Basically what it did was make approx. 68% of the players choose
the DD.  That tells me that the DD was too powerful and is why the torps were
put back at 30pts.  

	I vote no on this mod.

	I disagree that the DD is second best to at least one ship in every
area, but that's just my opinion.  I play them regularly unless I'm attacking 
BB's or defending.


   Brian Hall
     DarkHorse
From: leonard@mimsy.umd.edu (Leonard Dickens)
Newsgroups: rec.games.netrek
Subject: Re: Scattered Pops in INL- I vote NO!
Date: 21 Jan 93 14:26:04 GMT
Organization: Deep Thirteen, Gizmonics Institute

Tom Holub writes:
>Joseph E. Beck writes:
>)I'd prefer 10 second pops.  But if the 40 second pop timer is kept
>)could a public bomb timer at least be made publicly available?  It
>)seems unfair for some people to have an advantage in an INL game
>)because they have access to a program that aids their performance.
>)Could someone make one available via FTP?
>
>I wouldn't call it 'unfair,' I would call it 'illegal.'  Certainly,
>a pop clock is an info-borg feature, whether it is compiled into 
>the client or running concurrently.

Actually I think integrating a pop clock into the client would be a
decent way to solve the problem.  Borg feature?  Well... yeah, I
guess, but then so is visible tractors.  The point is simply which
"borg" features change the game in ways we dislike, and which would
improve it.


>Perhaps we'll change the INL Rulebook to reflect the fact that
>programs that run concurrently to the client that aid your netrek
>performance are also illegal.

I beleive this is the wrong way to approach the problem; in general I
think it is bad to make unenforceable regulations with large grey
areas.  The right way to deal with the problem is simple: change the
pop scheme.  Even changing it to 10 second pops removes the incentive
to run a pop clock.  1 second pops are even better.

The whole issue boils down to this: do people think that it is
interesting and valuable to be able to mentally track pop times and
have an idea of when the next pop will be?

I don't.  That is bogus.

-Leonard

Newsgroups: rec.games.netrek
From: osyjm@cs.montana.edu (Jaye Mathisen)
Subject:  From the CoUincilbOy:  Items up for INLC discussion
Organization: CS
Date: Tue, 26 Jan 1993 18:45:05 GMT



The following items are up to be discussed very shortly in INLC.  Please
send either me (osyjm@cs.montana.edu, and I will forward them) or the
INLC (inlcouncil@cs.montana.edu) your thoughts/opinions.  Please try
to put the string 'INLC' in your subject, we all get a lot of mail, it helps
to be able to sort it a bit.

I realize that these items have been thrashed around in rgn now for sometime,
and that now the debates seem to be more personal attacks than real cogent
reasoning.  Therefore, I'm asking you to send your thoughts on the subject,
along with a clear line of reasoning so that we can properly evaluate all
the contingencies.

1)  Scheduling, including divisions if at all.  [I had a short talk the
other day with Stiletto about scheduling, and he brought up some good points
between being a school team, and At-largeness, and which has the advantages.
These and other issues need to be addressed].  It would be nice if potential
team captains made sure their opinions get in.

2)  Pops/pop-timer and related items.

3)  Half-time.  

4)  Shorter games/vs 2 games ala Red Shirt's proposal and others like it.

Time is of the essence here ladies and gents, so please, get 'em in quick.

Also, start getting your team info together, Tom should be posting the formal
call for Teams  pretty soon, or I missed it, which is possible as well.
-- 
 Jaye Mathisen, COE Systems Manager                (406) 994-4780
 410 Roberts Hall,Dept. of Computer Science
 Montana State University,Bozeman MT 59717	osyjm@cs.montana.edu
Organization: Senior, Chemical Engineering, Carnegie Mellon, Pittsburgh, PA
Newsgroups: rec.games.netrek
Date: Sat, 23 Jan 1993 15:05:35 -0500 
From: Kevin Michael Bernatz <kb32+@andrew.cmu.edu>
Subject: Re: Escorting Tips Wanted

Greetings all,
	Sounds to me like you did the perfect thing.  As a person who escorts
considerably I would say that I would have done the same.  Really, it
*is* up to the planet taker to get by a single ogger and get to the
planet.  If the taker gets by the ogger, you can simply sit between the
two and pressor the ogger and det... maybe firing if you have the fuel
(don't want to run out of fuel to det......very embarrassing).  If the
planet taker can't get by a single ogger...well, he wasn't meant to take
that planet.  If there are multiple oggers, THEN I'd go back to the
planet taker since he will have to run (or pull a Spaceace! and try for
it anyways and get DOOSHed 80% of the time).

-KB
 Rear Admiral Akira
From: botelle@eniac.seas.upenn.edu (Justin Botelle)
Newsgroups: rec.games.netrek
Subject: Re: Clueless games
Date: 24 Jan 93 03:41:25 GMT
Organization: University of Pennsylvania

In article <1993Jan23.042255.22172@cs.uoregon.edu) keith@dogmatix.cs.uoregon.edu (Keith Steiger) writes:
)
)Some days, I think that 60% of mankind is fundamentally stupid.
)Other days, I'm not that optimistic.

No no no.  60% of mankind is fundamentally average.  Saying "most people
are stupid" shows a blatant disregard for the most elementary concepts
of statistics.  The truth is most people are of average intelligence.
If you wish to comment on the average intelligence, pick another way.

)If people are really doing this, then the process needs to be repeated every
)15 minutes or so.  That way, they'll get annoyed enough by their own death
)that they either keep up their message window or play elsewhere.
)
)And the time should probably be a random period--every 10-20 minutes--so they
)can't cheese out by going "Oh, it's been a while--I should bring up the
)message window".

Why not make them answer messages every 15 seconds while you're at it?

)	Keith Steiger
)	(who is still a little rusty after 9 months away from the sport)
)	"When half of my team reads messages, I consider myself lucky."


Justin (not to be confused with the tmode scummer from smu :)
Xref: sparky rec.games.netrek:12097 rec.answers:12 news.answers:5402
Newsgroups: rec.games.netrek
Date: Thu, 21 Jan 1993 19:19:16 -0500 
From: Sean Christopher Simmons <ss72+@andrew.cmu.edu>
Subject: Re: Scattered Pops in INL- I vote NO!

	I considder the scattered pop debate to be a lot like the square
detting debate and the orbit beg debate.  Sure, I could use those
features to my advanatge, but it seems clear that the game shouldn't
work that way.
	There was a time when each of these questions was unimportant, so no
one needed to make changes.  Now it's become important, and the change
should be made.  Scattered popping is right.

ZZnew guy  -- who misses square detting, but would still vote against it
From: ss72+@andrew.cmu.edu (Sean Christopher Simmons)
Newsgroups: rec.games.netrek
Subject: Re: Rom cruiser?
Date: 26 Jan 93 14:40:20 GMT
Article-I.D.: andrew.gfNRboe00VpJMuOFwi
Organization: Sponsored account, School Of Computer Science, Carnegie Mellon, Pittsburgh, PA

Excerpts from netnews.rec.games.netrek: 26-Jan-93 Re: Rom cruiser? ..
John Trivelli@andrew.cmu (1083)

> It's no big deal... but since
> stuff like this is easy to change (right?) it would be nice if
> someone would change the rom cruiser to the way it should look.

	If you feel at all strongly about this, then I suggest that you make an
NBR proposal and produce bitmaps for it.  You will need 16 bitmaps for
the rotation.  If you do this, I suspect that you will have little
opposition.

ZZnew guy
From: paulsen@eniac.seas.upenn.edu (Brian Paulsen)
Newsgroups: rec.games.netrek
Subject: Re: Client problems.....
Date: 27 Jan 93 03:27:10 GMT
Organization: University of Pennsylvania

In article <ajmiller.728098929@cortez.ecn.purdue.edu> ajmiller@cortez.ecn.purdue.edu (Andrew J Miller) writes:
)Greetings,
)This is metzlcw@helios.augustana.edu posting from a friends
)account.  I have just acquired the bronco.final version of
)xtrek.  I have a sun sparc_ipx and wer're running openwindows.
)I can connect to a server, and even quit by clicking on the 
)appropirate box if I don't want to wait.  However, if I
)get onto a Server and try to type anything like a handle
)or something, I get nothing, my terminal just beeps at me.
)Can anybody please help me!!  It's REALLY annoying to see
)the timer ticking away and I can't connect.

Try checking out jch's archive whenever you have troubles.
Almost 100% guaranteed to find the answer there.  Anyways,
in your .Xdefaults file, add the following line:
OpenWindows.FocusLenience:      True

Then restart your window manager.  Everything should work
as expected...

Brian
Newsgroups: rec.games.netrek