From: sklautky@vaxa.weeg.uiowa.edu (Stephen Klautky)
Newsgroups: soc.feminism
Subject: Re: Lipstick
Date: 15 Sep 1992 19:00:42 GMT
Organization: University of Iowa, Iowa City, IA, USA
Distribution: world
NNTP-Posting-Host: remarque.berkeley.edu
Originator: muffy@remarque.berkeley.edu

In article <18oq3vINNml1@agate.berkeley.edu>
Cindy Blank-Edelman <uunet!mailrus!gatech!meshugge.media.mit.edu!cindy@nca
|r.UCAR.EDU> writes:

>Mik Bickis writes:
>>Personally, I think women look better *without* make-up.

>It's funny....I know a number of men who also say that they like the
>way women look without make-up.  But those same men still are 
>attracted to heavily made-up models and actresses on TV or in
>magazines.  (In fact, wasn't it you that expressed an appreciation for
>"pin-ups"?)  This sends a contradictory message to women (who care 
>what men think about the way they look).  What do you think about
>this?

I like the look of models (who are made up) on magazine covers (Cindy
Crawford on Cosmo at the checkout line).  At the same time I like the
way women look without makeup.  I'll try to explain this.

Let me set up a hypothetical situation.  I go out with my girlfriend
to an event where we are supposed to dress up.  Does she look better
with makeup or without?   Sometimes yes and other times no.

In other words women who use makeup all the time in an attempt to be
attractive are limiting the ways they can be attractive (to me :-))

How do models and "pinups" play into this?
I know there is a compartmentalization of my attitudes/desire toward
attractiveness (this is true of makeup and other things that affect
surface features) that are presented in different modes.

The way I look at women who are talking to me is not the way I look
at women on TV which is turn is not how I look at women in magazines
and so on.  Each mode of representation has its own rules for aesthetic
appreciation.  Makeup plays different roles in each presentation and
so in some cases it is attractive and in other cases less so or not
at all.  I think anyone believes makeup is *always* attractive.

The situation in which the woman wears makeup also affects whether
I think the makeup is attractive or not.  My familiarity with her also
plays a big role.  When someone walks up to you they look a certain way.
After talking to you for a few minutes they look different.  Still
later after you have become casual acquaintances they look different
again.  I hope you understand this.  It is as if the features change
their priority during the course of knowing and getting to know that
person.

The compartmentalization described above can allow you to accomadate
aesthetic prejudices which in fact may have their roots in racism and
sexism.

What do we do?  Just how far should we go in telling people what they
should or should not find attractive?  No makeup or makeup?  Large
chests or small chests?  Black or white?

I don't advocate disliking "the beautiful people".  This is obviously
counterproductive - a reaction rather than a thoughtful act.

The next question from (perhaps a new thread if anyone's interested)
is:  How do allow your sensuality to respond naturally (if possible
at all) when there are lots of messages pushing hard for certain models
of attractiveness?

-=] Steve [=-        SKLAUTKY@VAXA.WEEG.UIOWA.EDU



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