HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: d-lewart@uiuc.edu (Daniel S. Lewart)
Subject: Re: RFD: comp.graphics.gnuplot
Originator: dslg0849@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu
Reply-To: d-lewart@uiuc.edu (Daniel S. Lewart)
Organization: University of Illinois at Urbana
Date: Fri, 21 Aug 1992 17:43:45 GMT

These are the comp.apps and comp.graphics branches of the USENET hierarchy:
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
comp.apps.spreadsheets	Spreadsheets on various platforms.
comp.graphics		Computer graphics, art, animation, image processing.
comp.graphics.avs	The Application Visualization System.
comp.graphics.explorer	The Explorer Modular Visualisation Environment (MVE).
comp.graphics.research	Highly technical computer graphics discussion. (Moderate
comp.graphics.visualization	Info on scientific visualization.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
These are my group name preferences in *increasing* order:

4) gnu.gnuplot.*
	Gnuplot is *not* part of the GNU project.  It does not belong
	here.  However, if the CFV fails (Gasp!), Leonard Tower has
	offered to create such a group.
3) comp.graphics.gnuplot
	comp.graphics is generally oriented towards research, so despite
	the nice name, it does not belong here.
2) comp.apps.graphics.gnuplot
	Technically, this is where our group belongs, but the comp.apps
	branch is too barren to justify the extra sublevel.  If this
	branch ever matures, we may move here.
1) comp.apps.gnuplot
	Gnuplot is a computer application, so I like this best!

Daniel Lewart
d-lewart@uiuc.edu
Newsgroups: news.groups
From: sjsobol@wariat.org (Steven J. Sobol)
Subject: regional distribution
Followup-To: poster
Organization: The Tiny Software Co., via APK Public Access Unix, Cleveland
Date: Fri, 21 Aug 1992 05:07:07 GMT

I want to create a regional news hierarchy, tscnet, for computers within
TSC which will be connected to Usenet. I know the technical requirements
for doing this, but what about the administrative requirements? Is there
any registry for hierarchies other than the major ones? Who do I talk to?
Please e-mail replies only as I do not read news.groups.

Thanks.

*--TechnoGeek--*

-- 
***  **  ** | The Tiny Software Co.  23707 Glenhill  Cleveland OH 44122
 *  *   *   | Steve Sobol * President * sjsobol@tiny.com or tiny!sjsobol 
 *   *  *   | Alternate addresses: sjsobol@wariat.org or ag510@po.cwru.edu
 *    * *   | Disclaimer: I *AM* the Tiny Software Company. 
 *  **   ** | --- If you love America, vote for Bill Clinton in November ---
From: news@wolves.uucp (The Wolfe of the Den)
Newsgroups: news.groups
Subject: Re: Impropriety in soc.culture.tamil vote (Re: soc.culture.tamil
Date: 17 Aug 92 02:52:21 GMT
Organization: Wolves Den UNIX
X-Md4-Signature: 325c95cdb62deb27bdaf756fac673663

alok@cbnewsi.cb.att.com (alok.vijayvargia) writes:
>prem@cs.montana.edu (M.P.Premkumar) writes:
>> 
>Assume for a moment that he is innocent and nothing wrong happened.
>Why is he then refusing to provide the data requested from him for last
>25 days ?.
>
>Think about it. 
>
>Something which could have been settled in an hour or less, has dragged
>for 25 days. Why is he not providing the emails if they actually came in ?

Because E-mail is a private matter.  E-mail sent to a person is still
under the control of the writer in terms of publication.  You do NOT
have any right to see private materials sent to the vote taker.

2)  All the guidelines state is that the e-mail addresses of the people
who voted and how they voted shall be posted.  They do not state that
the votes themselves shall be posted.

Alok:
	YOU are raising the questions, it devolves on you to prove the
point.  You have all the information you need to do so.

	If you are going to insult all the voters (by implying that they
are going to lie about something that is in the public record) you
condemn yourself.

PS: You really should look up the definition of "exHort" before you post
again about the proponents exhorting in favor of the group.
-- 
Usenet Net News Administrator @ The Wolves Den  (G. Wolfe Woodbury)
news%wolves@cs.duke.edu     ...duke!wolves!news     "We don't need no
There is a real person who watches this account.   stinking disclaimers"
Newsgroups: news.groups
Subject: Re: changing a newsgroup's moderator
From: demon@desire.wright.edu (Stupendous Man)
Date: 13 Aug 92 10:47:32 EST
 <JIK.92Aug9003728@pit-manager.mit.edu> <1992Aug11.110641.1586@falcon.aamrl.wpafb.af.mil> <1992Aug13.040026.27592@amhux2.amherst.edu>
Organization: Demonic Possesions, Inc.
Summary: Yeah, right Tim

In article <1992Aug13.040026.27592@amhux2.amherst.edu>, twpierce@amhux1.amherst.edu (Tim Pierce) writes:
> In article <1992Aug11.110641.1586@falcon.aamrl.wpafb.af.mil> bkottmann@falcon.aamrl.wpafb.af.mil (Brett Kottmann) writes:
> 
>>In article <JIK.92Aug9003728@pit-manager.mit.edu>, jik@athena.mit.edu (Jonathan I. Kamens) writes:
>>
>>> The former affects only the readers of the newsgroup.  The latter
>>> affects both the readers of the newsgroup AND the current moderator,
>>> and therefore, the current moderator must have a special place in the
>>> process.
>>
>>	Of course!  Musn't disturb the moderators from their ultra-important
>>position!
> 
> I think this poor imitation of sarcasm demonstrates perfectly your
> complete lack of perspective on the moderation process.

	Your deletion of the rest of the message, where my position is
explained demonstrates not only your lack of integrity, but also a pathetic
attempt to discredit a view you disagree with.

	I've seen you post even more sarcastic messages, Mr. Pierce, so don't
get melodramtic with me.  There's an art to having an attitude.  It's not just
being rude.

Brett                                                      
_______________________________________________________________________________
Proconsul Computer Consulting                                        CHA-CHING!
Better, Cheaper, Faster					       (Pick any two :)
Disclaimer:								   NOT!
Newsgroups: news.groups
Subject: Re: Much to your relief... (subject lines, et al)
From: demon@desire.wright.edu (Stupendous Man)
Date: 14 Aug 92 16:17:30 EST
 <1992Aug13.142759.21077@dsd.es.com> <1992Aug13.141912.3439@desire.wright.edu> <1992Aug14.144105.18870@dsd.es.com>
Organization: Demonic Possesions, Inc.
Summary: I'll have to work on being both humorous AND informative :)

In article <1992Aug14.144105.18870@dsd.es.com>, pmartz@dsd.es.com (Paul Martz) writes:
> In article <1992Aug13.141912.3439@desire.wright.edu>, demon@desire.wright.edu (Stupendous Man) writes:
>> In article <1992Aug13.142759.21077@dsd.es.com>, pmartz@dsd.es.com (Paul Martz) writes:
>> > What are you talking about? Please use more descriptive subjects.
>> 
>> 	Well, it's right there in front of you:
>> 
>> > In article <1992Aug12.172545.1596@falcon.aamrl.wpafb.af.mil>, bkottmann@falcon.aamrl.wpafb.af.mil (Brett Kottmann) writes:
>> >> 	George is going to conduct a straw poll to see about r.a.e and I mailed
>> >> Dave Lawrence to ask him to comment on whether the current RFD/CFV guidelines
>> >> are sufficient to remove/replace a moderator, so I'll keep quiet until we have
>> >> the results from these two fact finding missions.
>> 
>> 	Which part didn't you understand?
> 
> All of it except for "r.a.e". The subject line "Much to your relief"
> could apply to any newsgroup, and since the text doesn't explicitly
> mention the name of the newsgroup, this posting is meaningless.
> Postings like this only defeat my carefully crafted KILL file. I
> repeat: please use more decriptive subjects.

	Hmmm, well I had thought that the words "remove/replace moderator" were
enough to indicate the subject, but then not everyone is interested in the
moderator change topic.

	Hey, wait a second!  You're not *interested* in the flamewar???  What
are you a commie? :)

	(Point taken about the subject line.)

Brett                                                      
_______________________________________________________________________________
Proconsul Computer Consulting                                        CHA-CHING!
Better, Cheaper, Faster					       (Pick any two :)
Disclaimer:								   NOT!
Newsgroups: news.groups
From: jaapjl@tab00.larc.nasa.gov (J Lee Jaap)
Subject: Re: 3-week discussion period? (was: RFM: rec.arts.erotica)
Organization: AS&M Inc
	<1992Aug11.160050.1591@falcon.aamrl.wpafb.af.mil>
	<1992Aug11.235044.26507@athena.mit.edu>
	<1992Aug12.162213.3403@desire.wright.edu>
Date: Thu, 13 Aug 1992 16:37:15 GMT

In article <1992Aug12.162213.3403@desire.wright.edu> demon@desire.wright.edu (Stupendous Man) writes:

   In article <1992Aug11.235044.26507@athena.mit.edu>, jik@athena.mit.edu (Jonathan I. Kamens) writes:
   > In article <1992Aug11.160050.1591@falcon.aamrl.wpafb.af.mil>, bkottmann@falcon.aamrl.wpafb.af.mil (Brett Kottmann) writes:
   > |> 	How many admins would reject a valid vote to change moderators?  Why
   > |> would someone reject such a vote?

Perhaps enough admins would reject the vote that it would result in a
fractured net.  This is what Dave wants to avoid.

   > Because they have no way of knowing if the moderator was given a chance to
   > answer the charges against him?

	   Again, are admins supposed to follow every discussion to make sure
   every side has presented their case?  Of course not.

Some do.  Enough might to make the net schizo.  (more than it is :-)

   > Because Gene Spafford and Dave Lawrence reject the vote?

	   Why would Spaf or Dave reject the vote?

Dave rejected the RFD as not being covered by the Guidelines.

   > "The Golden Rule: Those that have the gold, make the rules."  You don't have
   > to convince the people in news.groups that you're right.  You have to convince
   > the people who implement the decisions suggested by the votes.  Those people
   > have already decided, apparently, that the current newsgroup creation
   > guidelines are not sufficient for replacing a moderator.  Trying to argue
   > differently here is therefore just spitting in the wind.

	   You're assuming that Gene and Dave would reject any moderator change
   that came along.  You're also implying that they would only do this to
   moderator changes.  The truth is, if either one of them voiced disapproval to
   ANY vote, it would most likely be not implemented or have spotty propagation.

Well said.  Especially since they maintain the `official' lists of groups
and moderators.  (I don't think Jonathan was implying that they'd limit
disapproval to moderator changes; Dave has rejected the RFD in this case.)

	   It's nice to rely on parental-figures, but I'd like to think that
   Usenet can decide for itself when someone is doing a bad job of moderation.

But what is USENET?  Ultimately, it's the newsadmins who implement it.
And they follow spaf and tale since they have done a good job so far,
because they've done a good job of making decisions the admins can
accept.
--
J Lee Jaap <jaapjl@tab00.larc.nasa.gov> +1 804/864-2148
employed by, not speaking for, AS&M Inc, at NASA LaRC, Hampton VA 23681
Newsgroups: news.groups,rec.motorcycles
From: steve@bucolix.ncsu.edu (Steve Garnier)
Subject: Re: rec.motorcycles.harley vote acknowledgment
Followup-To: news.groups
Reply-To: steve@bucolix.ece.ncsu.edu (Steve Garnier)
Organization: North Carolina State University
Date: Thu, 20 Aug 1992 16:26:46 GMT

In article <1992Aug19.174547.11313@cbnewsm.cb.att.com>
shz@garage.att.com (Keeper of the 'Tude) writes:
>In article <1992Aug18.172348.10326@ncsu.edu>, 
>steve@bucolix.ncsu.edu (Steve Garnier) writes:
>> Maybe I should have mentioned the vote from "root@alaska.et.byu.edu System
>> Operator", eh?  How many people do you know that regularly read news and post
>> someone who does.
>Lots of people read news as root.  Just grep through your news spool
>directories!  Back in '83 when I read news on UNIX boxes that I was
>developing I never bothered to give myself a login and just used root.

Well, Seth, I just "grep'd" through the rec.motorcycle articles looking
for "root", and the first mention in approximately 1200-1500 articles 
was my above-referenced article.  Seems like 0% posts from root in that
timeframe.  Of course, that doesn't mean "root" can't read.  Nor does it
mean that "root" can't read/post news.groups.  But I do find the number
to be impressively small.

>If someone was interested in casting extra votes and had root access,
>they would likely use normal looking logins to avert suspicion.

Yes, that's true.  There're many ways that "root" could stuff a ballot box.
But that's not a sufficient argument to preclude that someone didn't vote
using their own login *and* using root as well.

The problem is in detection.  Even if email checks are performed, a good
coverup/forgery would be almost impossible to detect.

>Granted, there were several suspicious sets of votes including:
>>> CAD8025@RyeVm.Ryerson.Ca "Problem Reporting, A" 
>>> ACAD8059@RyeVm.Ryerson.Ca Mike Mychalkiw 
>>> ADVI8721@RyeVm.Ryerson.Ca advisor's utility disk
>Labeling them as "Suspected Cheaters" is *way* too harsh unless you know
>more than what appears in the three lines above.

I disagree with your assesment of the level of harshness, but that's
probably got more to do with the different neighborhoods we grew up in.
To me, "suspicion" is nothing compared to "accusation".  My biggest
problem on this thread is that the net.community appears to read what 
I'd define as "accusation" when I write what I'd define as "suspicion".

If you don't suspect something, then why bother to ever investigate?

Steve Garnier - DoD #00000005 - '79 XS1100SF w/ 157K+ miles and *climbing*
KotF (Flame),  KotAM (Anecdotal Motorcycle),  The Daemon's Byte
       Contrary to popular belief, I am not the Devil's advocate...
                  ...but I am his speech writer.
From: alok@cbnewsi.cb.att.com (alok.vijayvargia)
Newsgroups: news.groups
Subject: Re: Impropriety in soc.culture.tamil vote (Re: soc.culture.tamil
Date: 14 Aug 92 21:13:52 GMT
Organization: AT&T

In article <g#zm=t+@lynx.unm.edu>, lazlo@triton.unm.edu (Lazlo Nibble) writes:
> alok@cbnewsi.cb.att.com (alok.vijayvargia) writes:
> 
> > Net ids may be valid but it does not mean that that person actually
> > voted.  What I would like to see is whether all these people whose net
> > ids were listed on the YES voters list, actually sent in their votes.
> > This is what I would like to check before I accept the result. 
> 
> So check it.  You have the addresses; send email to those addresses and
> see what bounces. 
> 
That does not prove that the vote was actually cast by that person.

> If the vote-taker can fake a net-id, they can fake a mail message from
> that id.  

Absolutely except that it is a lot of hard work to fake the email messages
for so many votes.

> You don't need the actual emailed votes to check the validity of
> the addresses they proport to come from

You missed the whole point. It is not the validity of the addresses, it is 
the validity of the votes.

> , and there's absolutely nothing in
> the guidelines that requires the vote-taker to hand them over to every

May be not in the guideline but it is in the interest of his group and
himself to clear up the doubts of the people who have questioned the voting
(there are at least three people who have cast serious doubts on it).

> pinhead who comes down the pike with an axe to grind. 

It is you who sound like a pinhead to me.
There is no axe to grind here. I have nothing against Mr. Pandian or 
the Tamils personally. However I sincerely have doubts that the votes
were cast of free will and conscience.

> 
> > There is significant other evidence (several duplicates, no vote
> > becoming yes, yes votes not counted, people admitting canvassing and
> > campaigning, exhortation).
> 
> Canvassing, campaigning, and exhortation are evidence of nothing, because
> there's nothing *wrong* with canvassing, campaigning, and exhortation.  

Well, how can you apply one set of standards to one group's vote and another
to this ? Soc.culture.indian.american should be removed because of 
campaigning but the soc.culture.tamil should be retained despite
a coordinated campaigning and exhortation during the vote by a group of 
organizers who were listed in the RFD along with the vote-taker.

> As for the rest, if you came up with enough errors in the votes to change the
> result of the vote, then'd you *might* have a case . . . but you don't.

If everything is hunkey-dorey, why is the vote taker not 
providing the data requested ?

> --
> Lazlo (lazlo@triton.unm.edu)

Alok
From: jik@athena.mit.edu (Jonathan I. Kamens)
Newsgroups: news.groups
Subject: The "gilley" (was: Re: Boring!)
Date: 20 Aug 92 23:55:14 GMT
Article-I.D.: athena.1992Aug20.235514.22954
Organization: Massachusetts Institute of Technology

In article <20AUG199216462267@vax2.concordia.ca>, dohle@vax2.concordia.ca (Gordon Dohle) writes:
|> In article <2A90FC58.6E8B@tct.com>, chip@tct.com (Chip Salzenberg) writes...
|> >"We have one gilly.  Repeat: We have one gilly."
|> >-- 
|> 
|> So what's a "gilly"?
|> If it means 'guilty', I plead innocent.

Well, actually, it's "gilley," not "gilly."  In article
<81401@netnews.upenn.edu>, weemba@sagi.wistar.upenn.edu (Matthew P Wiener)
wrote:

>Back during the RTM lynch fest, I invented the unit "gilley" as a measure
>of analogical bogosity, specifically in honor of Gilley's comparing the
>shutting down of machines to murder.  Does anyone have my original article
>with the scale?  I think one gilley was the act of bogotoficiously comparing
>the shutting down of 1000 machines for a day with the killing of one person,
>so cancelling one USENET article is, say, about one millionth of a downer
>compared with shutting down one machine, so Ross is obviously up in the
>megagilley range.
>
>At the time I thought I was being facetious--how could anyone top Gilley?
>Now we know.  Stupidity comes in many forms--it is so nice to sometimes
>be able to quantify it.

-- 
Jonathan Kamens                                         jik@MIT.Edu
MIT Information Systems/Athena              Moderator, news.answers
    (Send correspondence related to the news.answers newsgroup
        {and ONLY correspondence related to the newsgroup}
                 to news-answers-request@MIT.Edu.)
Xref: sparky news.groups:16858 rec.bicycles:20788
From: bhilden@bigriver.Eng.Sun.COM (Bruce Hildenbrand)
Newsgroups: news.groups,rec.bicycles
Subject: Re: RESULT: rec.bicycles reorganization passes
Date: 14 Aug 92 05:31:51 GMT
Distribution: na
Organization: Sun Microsystems, Mt. View, Ca.
NNTP-Posting-Host: bigriver

In article <1992Aug13.211804.15234@tms390.micro.ti.com> bradloff@tms390.micro.ti.com (Brian Radloff) writes:
>parksd@source.asset.com (Don Parks) writes:
>
>>In article <1992Aug13.044251.9828@uunet.uu.net> les@sail.stanford.edu (Les Earnest) writes:
>>>All of the six new unmoderated newsgroups proposed to replace
>>>rec.bicycles were approved by margins of at least 403 to 124, which
>>>amply meets the established criteria.  I have not bothered to count

>Is this for real?  It's hard for me to believe.  In the past two years, many votes were held
>and none were even close to passing.  Did someone fake the data?  Is that possible, I don't really
>understand how the voting is done and verified.

In the history of rec.bicycles there has never been a official vote
for reorganization.  I dont' know where Mr. Radloff got his information,
maybe he was thinking of another newsgroup!

Amazingly yours,

Bruce
Newsgroups: news.groups
From: macphed@dvinci.USask.Ca (Ian MacPhedran)
Subject: Re: RFD: comp.graphics.gnuplot
Organization: University of Saskatchewan
Date: Sat, 15 Aug 1992 00:06:47 GMT

d-lewart@uiuc.edu (Daniel S. Lewart) writes:
> comp.graphics.* is for computer graphics, not software packages.  I think
> comp.apps.gnuplot would be a more appropriate name.  An alternative would
> be comp.apps.gnuplot.bugs and comp.apps.gnuplot.info or comp.apps.gnuplot.d.
> I prefer a single newsgroup at first with the option to bifurcate in the
> future if the need arises.

While I agree that comp.graphics is becoming somewhat overused, I'm
not sure that I would agree that comp.apps would be a better choice. In
my .newsrc the only "apps" group is "c.a.spreadsheets", a generic,
rather than specific, application group.

I tend to prefer comp.graphics.gnuplot over c.a.gnuplot. The c.g. groups
do have members which are application specific, and c.g.gnuplot would be
the first place I, as a neophyte, would look for a program which is primarily
graphics.

Perhaps comp.apps.graphics.gnuplot or comp.graphics.apps.gnuplot would
be the best way to go. :-) {JUST KIDDING PLEASE DON'T TAKE THIS SERIOUSLY :-}

I agree that a single group to start with would be best.

{I also agree that this group should be formed, just in case that doesn't
come through in this missive.}

> > CHARTER:
> > 4) GNUPLOT is a command-driven interactive function plotting program which:
> >    a) - e)

f) Is extremely heavily used by the users on the systems here. (and elsewhere)

Thanks to those who initiated this thought, and to those who listened
(read) my ramblings.

Ian.
-- 
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ian MacPhedran, Engineering Computer Centre, University of Saskatchewan.
2B13 Engineering Building, U. of S. Campus, Saskatoon, Sask., CANADA S7N 0W0
macphed@dvinci.USask.CA  macphedran@sask.USask.CA
Newsgroups: news.groups
From: twpierce@amhux1.amherst.edu (Tim Pierce)
Subject: Re: changing a newsgroup's moderator
Organization: Amherst College, Amherst MA
Date: Thu, 13 Aug 1992 04:00:26 GMT

In article <1992Aug11.110641.1586@falcon.aamrl.wpafb.af.mil> bkottmann@falcon.aamrl.wpafb.af.mil (Brett Kottmann) writes:

>In article <JIK.92Aug9003728@pit-manager.mit.edu>, jik@athena.mit.edu (Jonathan I. Kamens) writes:
>
>> The former affects only the readers of the newsgroup.  The latter
>> affects both the readers of the newsgroup AND the current moderator,
>> and therefore, the current moderator must have a special place in the
>> process.
>
>	Of course!  Musn't disturb the moderators from their ultra-important
>position!

I think this poor imitation of sarcasm demonstrates perfectly your
complete lack of perspective on the moderation process.

-- 
____ Tim Pierce                / "Bisexual just means you pay for it."
\  / twpierce@amherst.edu      /  
 \/ (BITnet: TWPIERCE@AMHERST) /   -- Rock Hudson