HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: vince@cadence.com (Vince Gibboni)
Subject: Re: Wits and Half-Wits (was: *Any* kind of r.a.b. split...)
Organization: Cadence Design Systems, Inc.
Date: Wed, 6 Jan 1993 01:04:07 GMT


mnemonic@eff.org (Mike Godwin) writes:
> It should be obvious that Tom is alluding to Shakespeare's highly quotable
> play "As You Like It," where Jacques says he can suck melancholy out of a
> song as a weasel sucks eggs. Tom is using this allusion to call Dani a
> weasel. He does this more directly in his response to Vince Gibboni:
>
>" So might I request that you put some substance into your casual 
> slander--i.e., that you put forth some evidence that I habitually chase
> newcomers out of r.a.b. by drenching them in obscenities--or else you 
> can recant and beg my pardon or show forth as the weasel I suspect you
> are."

    First(ly), I should like to point out that I only cited Tom's periodic 
    geyser-like eruptions of bitterness and obscenity as an _example_ of 
    the sort of thing that might bother any newcomer to this group, and in
    no legally-binding sort of way did I suggest that Tom alone is solely
    responsble for RAB's unkinder, ungentler atmosphere. (Although, of course,
    he probably is).

    I do realize that people's levels of sensitivity vary; there are many 
    people who would not be bothered at all by Tom's posts. Unfortunately,
    most of these people are in prison or locked in small padded cells so 
    much of the merriment goes unappreciated.

    Anyway, in defence of myself, (and in a somewhat weasly way) as my 
    (improper) "evidence" of Mr. Maddox's anti-newcomers effect, instead 
    of showing a proper causal relationship, I simply cite the Herman Munster 
    Princple. This princple is based on the observation of how when Lily 
    (if that was her name) Munster brought her friends to her house and 
    they met Herman they would always end up running away screaming in 
    terror and disgust. Theoretcially, this behavior may have been totally 
    unrelalted to the fact that Herman Munster (who, oddly enough, was really 
    a nice guy) was seven feet tall with a square green head and a bolt 
    coming out his neck, but the Herman Munster Princple states unequivocally 
    not to bet on it.

    
--
                                                         vince@gda.cadence.com
    Is it weird that you hate a stranger ?
    Can a detail correct your dismay ?
            - Pete Townshend
From: francis@oas.stanford.edu (Francis Muir)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
Subject: Re: academic settings
Date: 11 Jan 1993 00:07:25 GMT
Organization: Stanford Exploration Project
Distribution: rec
NNTP-Posting-Host: oas.stanford.edu

Sandra Loosemore writes:

	Sanjiva Prasad writes:

		There are heaps of books about life in residential 
		Public Schools.

	Don't forget Delderfield's "To Serve Them All My Days" in 
	this genre.

And who shall forget the classic, "Goodbye, Mr. Chips"? For some
reason I have never understood all these 2nd tier Public School
stories have been snapped up by the Beeb for MasterPiece Theatre.
One of Evelyn Wauigh's funniest tales involved a public school 
teacher who ends up in gaol (?). I have a vague memory of a scene
in the Scrubbs (Wormwood Scrubbs for the incog.) chapel the evening
before a hanging where the words of the hymn "Og God, our help in ages 
past" are altered to suit. But enough. Early Waugh is very, very good.

					RABworm
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
From: mtaranto@panix.com (Mark Taranto)
Subject: Re: Shouting at robots
Summary: A non-book related public service announcement
Organization: The Inner Clique
Date: Thu, 7 Jan 1993 04:30:08 GMT



fsbrn@brl.mil (Ferd S. Brundick) writes:

> This ties in with an observation I made yesterday and which I will
> gladly share.  A coworker was having trouble because his terminal
> suddenly switched to an alternate character set.  Since the person
> does not read the VT100 graphics char set, he asked me for help.  To
> demonstrate the fact that gibberish was spewing all over his screen,
> he proceded to pound on the keyboard with gay abandon.  However, HE
> WAS STILL LOGGED IN AT THE TIME!  (excuse the shouting :-)

Next time, tell him to type ^O (Control O).

Mark

Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
From: tonym@world.std.com (Tony Matt)
Subject: Re: Homeschooling (spp's response to multiple posts)
Organization: The World Public Access UNIX, Brookline, MA
Date: Sat, 9 Jan 1993 19:47:11 GMT

In article <1ikg66$rb6@agate.berkeley.edu> spp@zabriskie.berkeley.edu (Steve Pope) writes:
>Tony Matt writes:
>
>>>> And having seen some 
>>>> of the ravings from the "Pro-9" and "Pro-2" groups, I'd be curious 
>>>> how people can support either of these measures and 
>>>> not be homophobic.  [...]
>>>
>>>What she said.  I'm quite curious about this myself.
>>
>>What I'm curious about is how you can assert that you *know* what's in 
>>the hearts and minds of millions of people based on their support of
>>a political position.  And not only the majority or vast majority, but
>>every single one of them.
>
>I never asserted to know this.

For the record, here's your original post, starting with 
Laurie Mann's comments about OR9/CO2:

>> While this discussion probably better belongs in 
>> alt.politics.homosexuality, 

>(perhaps, but the homeschoolers seem to be here on r.a.b. !)

>> I would say anyone who supported Oregon Measure 9 (or Colorado 
>> Measure 2) is a  homophobe.  That doesn't mean everyone in Oregon or 
>> Colorado is a bigot, just the ones who believe some minority groups 
>> don't deserve equal protection under  the law.  And having seen some 
>> of the ravings from the "Pro-9" and "Pro-2" groups, I'd be curious 
>> how people can support either of these measures and 
>> not be homophobic.  [...]

>What she said.  I'm quite curious about this myself.

The unabridged version includes her assertion and your apparent 
affirmation ('I would say' followed by 'What she said').
From: miner@kuhub.cc.ukans.edu
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
Subject: "Jeeves and Wooster"
Date: 5 Jan 93 10:44:37 CST
Organization: University of Kansas Academic Computing Services

Love the series also.  Note the odd consensus here: I too always
thought of Jeeves as an older man.  That's three of us (?) so far.
Why have we made this assumption?  Any theories?  Any dissenters?

While I can't fault the TV versions in any way, the medium does take
away some of Plum's genius.  Coincidentally I've just been reading
Richard Usborne on the rather unusual nature of Bertie as first-person
narrator and character:

	As a storyteller Bertie is his own central character,
	and he has to narrate strictly from the first-personal
	point of view, often writing scenes in such a way that
	Bertie-the-character must not realize the purport of
	what Bertie-the-narrator is narrating, but his readers
	must.  Very difficult...

	_The Penguin Wodehouse Companion_ p 176

This is lost in the series, of course.  There's no place to put things
like "...and I meant it to sting."
-- 
miner@kuhub.cc.ukans.edu | Graecis ac barbaris, sapientibus et
opinions are my own      | insipientibus debitor sum
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
From: feld@ccu.umanitoba.ca (Michael Feld)
Subject: Wanted: _Ring for Jeeves_, by P.G. Wodehouse
Organization: University of Manitoba, Winnipeg, Manitoba, Canada
Date: Wed, 6 Jan 1993 00:35:45 GMT

We've quite worn out our copy of Wodehouse's _Ring for Jeeves_, and
cannot find another locally.  What we'd like is a copy in good
condition, but not a rare or "collectable" copy.

If you have an extra copy you'd be willing to sell, please reply by
e-mail.

Thanks for your attention.
-- 
Michael Feld                  | E-mail: <feld@ccu.umanitoba.ca>
Dept. of Philosophy           | FAX: (204) 261-0021
University of Manitoba        | Voice: (204) 474-9136
Winnipeg, MB, R3T 2M8, Canada
From: warkent@ltisun14.epfl.ch (Ken Warkentyne)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
Subject: Re: academic settings
Date: 12 Jan 93 14:41:55 GMT
	<1993Jan12.131449.29096@grebyn.com>
Organization: Ecole Polytechnique Federale de Lausanne---Laboratoire de
	Teleinformatique
In-reply-to: fi@grebyn.com's message of 12 Jan 93 13:14:49 GMT

THE OLD GOAT is a murder mystery with a campus setting.  It captures
the flavour of academia quite well.  Unfortunately, I cannot remember
the author's name.
--
Ken Warkentyne - warkent@ltisun.epfl.ch
                 Laboratoire de Teleinformatique, EPFL, Suisse.
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
From: miner@kuhub.cc.ukans.edu
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
Subject: Re: Computers not a substitute for books
Date: 7 Jan 93 07:08:41 CST
Organization: University of Kansas Academic Computing Services

In article <1993Jan6.233943.10477@eff.org>, mnemonic@eff.org (Mike Godwin) writes:
> In article <1993Jan6.211907.10831@utkux1.utk.edu> koosman@UTKUX1.UTK.EDU (Toby Koosman) writes:
>>In article <1993Jan6.050439.26035@eff.org> mnemonic@eff.org (Mike Godwin) writes
>>>Hmmm. Does the fact that one requires *something* to listen to a record,
>>>tape, or CD mean that our culture is divided into the music poor and the
>>>music rich?
>>
>>This is a poor defense of technology from my view, demonstrating the sorry
>>pass we've come to on account of sound reproduction technology, in that the
>>normal way to appreciate music is assumed to be, not witnessing musicians
>>playing their instruments before you, but hearing recorded music.  
> 
> I could have made a similar comparison relying using musical instruments.
> Whether you have a Steinway doesn't settle the issue of whether you're
> "music poor."

     I can't let this go by.  The remark about the Steinway makes
a point opposite to the one intended: the technology of musical
instrument making (and it is increasingly a technology, not a
craftsmanship), which puts far more elaboration into musical
instruments than they really need, makes it next to impossible for
a person with less than a middle-class income to purchase a decent
guitar or banjo or mandolin or whatever.
     This results in the supreme irony of "folk-musicians"
performing on instruments they paid literally thousands of dollars
for.
     Whatever the inequities in music listening are, the inequities
in music performance are much worse.  (I can't speak for classical
musicians but I assume the situation is the same.)

-Ken

> Mike Godwin,    |"I'm waiting for the one-man revolution
> mnemonic@eff.org| The only one that's coming."
> (617) 864-0665  |                           
> EFF, Cambridge  |                   --Robert Frost 
-- 
miner@kuhub.cc.ukans.edu | Graecis ac barbaris, sapientibus et
opinions are my own      | insipientibus debitor sum
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
From: fi@grebyn.com (Fiona Webster)
Subject: Re: academic settings
Organization: Grebyn Timesharing
Date: Tue, 12 Jan 1993 13:14:49 GMT

Matt Maxwell writes:
>I would heartily suggest "The BIG U" by Neal Stephenson, however it takes place
>in more of a campus setting, rather than an academic setting per se.  Very
>funny, rather dark and weonderful all around.  Also rather hard to find, i'm
>afraid, but well worth the search.

I enjoyed _The_Big_U_ as well--but recently, in looking through the
divisions in our bookshelves (one for history and philosophy of science,
one for neo-pagan writings, etc.), my husband questioned the placing
of this book in "literature."  I mention this not to cast any aspersions
on Stephenson's funny book, nor to make my husband sound like a prig
(-:, but to point out that _The_Big_U_ is a *different* sort of book than
most of those recommended in this thread so far.  For (at least) two
reasons: 1) what Matt implies, that the setting is indeed a "Big U," not
an ivy-covered, Anglophilic (you know what I mean), collegiate setting;
and 2) it could well be classified as a dystopian sf (alternate history)
novel.

		*	*	*	*	*

Another for the list: _The_Mind-Body_Problem_ by Rebecca Goldstein.
We've already chatted a good deal about this book in rab, so I won't
say more than to recommend it heartily.

Also: Would Donna Tartt's _The_Secret_History_ count as a book in an
academic setting?  I haven't read the book, but have the impression
that it's more about students (a la the movie "Dead Poets Society) 
than about "academics."  This question reverberates with the comments
about _The_Big_U_, of course.  The point being, this thread may soon
get over-inclusive, and if so, we need to discuss that fact.  :-) :-)  
Do we mean "academic" to refer to professors, to professors and grad
students, to grad students and/or undergrads (and/or preppies) alone,
and so on...

An observation: The distribution for this thread (at least in
Matt Maxwell's posting) was set to "usa".  (!!)

A personal note: I'm joyfully exhausted (eyes full of colors I never
knew existed!) by the Matisse Retrospective in NYC.  For those who
had the exhibition book on their Christmas lists, and didn't get it,
and feel they can't afford it: it's available as a handsome paperback,
exactly the same size as the hardcover, for about $37.50.

						--fauvistically yours,

								Fiona
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
From: heidi@wales.net.com (Heidi Wolf)
Subject: Re: Shouting at robots
Organization: N.E.T., Redwood City, CA
Date: Tue, 5 Jan 1993 18:21:21 GMT

In article <1993Jan5.001822.21113@nas.nasa.gov> wismith@amelia.nas.nasa.gov (William 
R. Smith) writes:
>Tom Maddox writes:
>
>	In my story "Gravity's Angel" (Nov. '92 _Omni_), the protagonist
>	has a couple of conversations with a defective groundskeeping
>	robot--he doesn't actually shout, however, as what he has to
>	say is more in sorrow than in anger.
>
>The protagonist also calls the groundskeeping humans to fix it.
>Maybe there's more to John's son's shouts than commanding the
>errant robot.


A brief digression here, to recommend John M. Ford's science fiction
novel THE PRINCES OF THE AIR, in which one may either speak to robots
(in this book, "samechs" or sapient mechanisms) or use finger-spelling
to communicate with them.  (The latter is the "back-door" technique
used mainly by the designers; one of the three protagonists finds that
knowing this obscure method often comes in handy.)  Lots of intrigue
and adventure; worth searching through the secondhand bookstore for.

This is a favorite book of mine -- not least because the Officical
Language of Diplomacy is extemporaneous iambic pentameter.


H. "Shakespeare Rules O.K.!" Wolf
From: bh419@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Ted B Samsel)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
Subject: Re: Celebrating McGonagall
Date: 7 Jan 1993 12:06:39 GMT
Organization: Case Western Reserve University, Cleveland, Ohio (USA)
NNTP-Posting-Host: hela.ins.cwru.edu


Re: Cliff's Notes to Monty Python.
 
John...I think the Pythons may have never DONE arithmetic; but 
then I never went to "public" school. 
  Know wot I mean, nudge, nudge...
-- 
Ted....
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
From: hhenderson@vax.clarku.edu
Subject: RE: Het Boys (was: Homophobia)
Organization: Clark University
Date: 9 JAN 93 14:54:15 GMT

I wrote:

>>What I see happening is: Mike is expressing his opinion reasonably. 

Steve Dyer wrote:

>Shirley, you're joking. 

You may find his *opinion* unreasonable, but his mode of expressing it has
been reasonable in nature.  I haven't seen him calling anybody names.  (And
stop calling me Shirley!!)

>Calling someone a "black homo" is an insult, precisely because of these
>groups' very marginalization.  

Baloney.  What you're saying is, no matter *what* a marginalized group is
known as, that word is automatically an insult, no matter who uses it and
under what circumstances.  Where do you get that idea?

>Recall the Stein/lesbian thread, please. 

You seem to think the term "lesbian" is an insult.  It's not.  It only
becomes insulting when used in a derogatory manner, as Michael Wise used it,
and as you used "het boy".  

>Calling someone who is in every aspect just what they are--a member of 
>the majority, when that privileged condition contributes to their 
>complacency and insensitivity is perfectly acceptible.  

Maybe to you.  

Are you, *in principle*, against attacking people based on their race,
religion, and sexuality, or only against attacking *marginalized* people in
that manner?

Heather
HHENDERSON@vax.clarku.edu
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
From: mnemonic@eff.org (Mike Godwin)
Subject: Re: SF + PC
Originator: mnemonic@eff.org
Organization: Electronic Frontier Foundation
Date: Tue, 5 Jan 1993 12:45:08 GMT

In article <JMC.93Jan4235352@SAIL.Stanford.EDU> jmc@cs.Stanford.EDU writes:

>Bah, humbug.  Science graduates write as well as graduates in English,
>and include far less nonsense in what they write.  The literacy level
>of the PMLA isn't as high as that of _Science_ or _Nature_.

I agree about the relative skills of science graduates and English
graduates, in general, but I don't see any connection between that
comparison and the comparison of PMLA to SCIENCE and NATURE.


--Mike



-- 
Mike Godwin,    |"I'm waiting for the one-man revolution
mnemonic@eff.org| The only one that's coming."
(617) 864-0665  |                           
EFF, Cambridge  |                   --Robert Frost
From: miner@kuhub.cc.ukans.edu
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
Subject: Re: Woosterspeak
Date: 7 Jan 93 18:48:05 CST
Organization: University of Kansas Academic Computing Services

In article <jyc.726424408@Leland>, jyc@leo.Stanford.EDU (Jon Corelis) writes:
>    The recent interest here on the Jeeves saga prompts me to ask a
> question that I've wondered about:  did anyone ever actually talk like
> Bertie Wooster?  That is, is his manner of speaking an accurate
> depiction of the speech of a certain sort of people in England in the
> twenties, or is it an entirely literary creation? 

Richard Usborne (_The Penguin Wodehouse Companion_) writes:

	Bertie Wooster's age stays put at about twenty-four,
	but you can spot certain changes in his slang styles
	as the publishing years advance.  He stopped saying
	'chappie,' dear boy' and the parenthetical 'don't you
	know' in the 1920s.  He stopped saying 'rattled' 
	(meaning pleased), and 'rotten' as a universal 
	pejorative, in the 1930s.  By the middle 30s he had
	virtually made his own language, and it became frozen
	and timeless to the last.

I think it's much like Synge's Irish: real (remembered, in
Plum's case; see below), but artificially extracted and standardized.
Yet there are some things that really puzzle me: I have yet to meet an
Englishman who recalls hearing the word 'geezer' used for a young
girl, for instance.

An essential thing about Bertie's speech (and that of the other
characters), according to Usborne (and he has convinced me), is that
though the action is supposed to be set in the 40s (as you can tell
from the few refs to current stuff, from Roderick Spode, &c., much of the
culture comes from the late 19th century--the time of Wodehouse's
childhood.  E.g., "There is much talk of the low esteem in which the
respectable gentry holds members of the acting profession [cf. _The
Mating Season_ the other evening, KM] -- an Edwardian, not
later-Georgian attitude."  Remember how Bertie is always trying to get
out of performing in a village concert?  Those were late 19th century;
by the 40s radio had wiped them out.  Etc., etc.  In a word,
"Wodehouse was giving his own stripling memories to Bertie, in spite
of a difference of fifty years in period."

If Usborne is right, this would explain why you can't really pin
Bertie's speech to a single period.

-Ken
-- 
miner@kuhub.cc.ukans.edu | Graecis ac barbaris, sapientibus et
opinions are my own      | insipientibus debitor sum

Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
From: sanjiva@ecrc.de (Sanjiva Prasad)
Subject: Re: academic settings
Reply-To: sanjiva@ecrc.de (Sanjiva Prasad)
Organization: European Computer-Industry Research Centre, Munich
Distribution: rec
Date: Sun, 10 Jan 1993 20:04:24 GMT

In article <1993Jan10.171315.8023@netcom.com> dani@netcom.com (Dani Zweig) writes:
>"john lovett" <john.lovett@channel1.com>:
>>Can anyone recommend other books set in academia? Any genre will do.
>
>Tom Brown's School Days?

There are heaps of books about life in residential Public Schools.  Starting
with Enid Blyton, who probably is the most widely read author among (preteen)
English-speaking Indian kids.  Then there's the prolific Frank Richards and
his Billy Bunter series (which has a sister act to it in the enormous form
of Bessie Bunter).

My own favourites are (1) the Jennings (and Darbyshire) books and (2) 
the Nigel Molesworth books. Sorry I can't remember the authors of either
(Would the RABworm know?).  The Jennings books are very Richmal Crompton-like,
and I've been searching for several years for the Molesworth chiz.  Maybe
I need to convince the pater-in-law to part with his copies (books for a
dowry, which biblioholic can beat that?).

On to college.  Sayers' _Gaudy Night_ has been mentioned umpteen times on 
this forum.  And Oxford academia sometimes drifts into Colin Dexter's
Inspector Morse books.  You've probably met Morse, played by that Eduard 
Sheverdnadze look-alike Thaw, on Mystery!  Mores is a crossword-and-ale man.

Then there's _Garp_ and Updike's _Roger's Version_.  Talking of Updike,
I'm surprised that no one mentioned _S._ in the cross-writing thread.
Or Gore Vidal's _Kalki_.

Cheers and chiz chiz,
Sanjiva

--
Sanjiva Prasad,  Guest Magus				E-mail: sanjiva@ecrc.de
European Computer Industry Research Centre		Off: +49 89 92 69 91 58
Arabellastrasse 17					Fax: +49 89 92 69 91 70
8000 Muenchen 81, Germany				Res: +49 89 16 33 59
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
From: kamorgan@athena.mit.edu (Keith Morgan)
Subject: Re: Angela Carter, _Wise Children_, also "Jeeves and Wooster"
Organization: Massachusetts Institute of Technology
Date: Tue, 5 Jan 1993 04:46:30 GMT

Tom Maddox writes:

	Also, on an almost unrelated note:  the Guthrie/Fry "Jeeves and
Wooster" series on PBS is half done (2 out of 4), and I for one love it--
also, would be interested to hear how other r.a.b.ble Wodehouse fanciers
respond.

	I am also loving every looney minute of it. The second
episode was absolutely priceless with Bertie and Gussie Fink-Nottle
changing places. The scene where Bertie tries to tell a joke to the
assembled aunts was hilarious. Fry and Laurie have brought Jeeves and
Wooster to life. As I'm watching I can remember what is going to
happen next but then when it does it never fails to crack me up. Fans
might want to try to imitate the Bertie ga-ga look. I'm not sure how
Laurie gets his face all screwed up like that but it is a perfect
picture of exactly what it is that Bertie represents. Finally, I have
also enjoyed Stephen Fry's introductions. The concluding remarks to #2
where he tried to explain why certain English names are pronounced as
they are was also very funny.

	Keith


--

Keith Morgan kamorgan@athena.mit.edu
In the end nothing could be said of his work except that it was
preposterous and true and totally unacceptable. Edward Whittemore
From: mtaranto@panix.com (Mark Taranto)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
Subject: RE: The Wall Street Journal
Date: 8 Jan 93 03:10:21 GMT
Organization: The Inner Clique



Heather Henderson writes:

> Mark Taranto wrote:

>> Incidentally, I've been working on Wall Street since 1985, and with the 
>> exception of the book that Heather (obliquely) refers to (yes, there was 
>> a book reference), I've never heard anyone on the street use the "big 
>> swinging dick" expression. 

> But Mark, aren't you closeted in the research office, safely distant from all
> the young white men baying for money?

Well -- I am back with the Little Dicks in Research (some call is 
propellerheads) but in my new job, I am closer to the trading floor,
and may have to actually talk with some of them.  But my new firm
seems a little less stuffy.  I can wear jeans on fridays (thereby
extending the life of my suits by 20%), and I have just discovered
that, unlike my previous firm, my co-workers enjoy reading books.

I had to work hard to get that book reference in -- but there it is.

Mark
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books