From: merchant@davidsys.com (Rukhsana Merchant)
Newsgroups: news.groups
Subject: Re: RFD: SOC.RELIGION.ISLAM.AHMADIYYA-MODERATED.
Date: 5 Nov 92 17:16:37 PST
Organization: DAVID Systems Inc, Sunnyvale CA

In article <1992Nov4.192850.177@otago.ac.nz>, amjad@otago.ac.nz writes:
> In article <1992Nov3.002700.1@uwovax.uwo.ca>, 3040_3744@uwovax.uwo.ca writes:
>> In article <1cscdiINNqd6@life.ai.mit.edu>, gwydion@hal.gnu.ai.mit.edu (Mercenary Programmer) writes:
>>> In article <1992Oct28.170008.3789@bernina.ethz.ch> nadeem@igpho (Nadeem Malik) writes:
>>> 
>>>>At the most fundamental level, Muslims are more united than Christians
>>>>on basic matters -- that much is true. The following is a list of the
>>>>pillars of Islam and the articles of Faith which at least in principle
>>>>all Muslims (Sunni, Ahmadi and Shia) believe in:
>>>>
>>>>Pillars: 
>>>>        1. Profession of 'There is no god but Allah and Muhammad 
>>>>           is his Messenger'
>>>>	 2. Prayers 5 times daily
>>>>	 3. Obligatory alms give for the poor and needy (Zakat)
>>>>	 4. Pilgrimage to Mecca once in a life time (Hajj)
>>>>	 5. Fasting during the month of Ramadhan.
>>>>
>>>>Faith:	 1. Belief in Allah
>>>>	 2. Belief in the Angels of Allah
>>>>	 3. Belief in all the prophets of Allah
>>>>	 4. Belief in all revealed books of Allah
>>>>	 5. Belief in life after death.
>>>>
>>>>The differences between the various sects in Islam begin after these
>>>>statements.
>>>>
>>>>Sunni and Shia say (for no apparent reason) that Pillar 1 (P1) really implies
>>>>that Muhammad (pbuh) is the last prophet, and anyone who believes otherwise
>>>>is outside of Islam and non-Muslim. Ahmadis say this is not so; it is possible
>>>>for God to send messengers from within the Muslim Umma (people) as a prophet
>>>>to revive and reform Muslims back to the true Islam.
>>> 
>>> The "no apparent reason", actually, is the following verse from
>>> the Quran:
>>> 
>>> 	Muhammad is not the father of any of your men, but he is
>>> 	the Apostle of Allah, and the Seal (Khatim) of the Prophets
>>> 	and Allah has full knowledge of all things.
>>> 				Sura Al-Ahzab, #40
>>> 
>> 
>> I don't know what you are trying to prove from the above verse?
>> Does it say that Ahmadies are not Muslim?
>> Are you aware of the meaning of the arabic word of "Khatama" I can give you
>> open challenge to come and prove from this verse or for that matter any other
>> verse of the Holy Quran which decleare Ahmadies are not Muslim. 
>> 
>>> 
>>>>I hope that it is clear why we wish to retain 'islam' in our name and
>>>>also 'ahmadiyya' to establish our unique status.
>>> 
>>> It is certainly clear.
>>> 
>>>>Hence
>>>>soc.religion.islam.ahmadiyya is the only sensible choice.
>>> 
>>> No, it is not.
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> why not?
>> 
>>> 
>>>>As far as the right to choose a name is concerned, please see my other
>>>>post where I have established that freedom of speech includes freedom
>>>>to choose ones own name, no matter what anyone else says.
>>> 
>>> Try the following:
>>> 
>>> I have just decided to found a new religion.  One of the tenets of
>>> this faith is that Ghulam Ahmad was a fake and a charlatan.  I have
>>> also decided that the followers of this religion should be called
>>> Ahmadi Muslims.  Now, defend my right to call myself an Ahmadi Muslim.
>>> Should I also ask for the creation of soc.religion.islam.ahmadi?
>>> 
>>> Basalat Ali Raja.
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> One of the most illogical example given by Mr. Basalat Ali Raja. I was
>> expecting some more reasonable argument from a so called intellectual person. 
>> In your example you are not only denying the claim of a person but also
>> accusing him for being a lier and still wanted to be associated with him. While
>> in the case of Ahmadies they do not deny the claim of the prophet Mohammad
>> (peace of Allah be upon him) rather they behold prophet Mohammed to more dearer
>> to them then anyone else even more dearer then Hazrat Mirza Ghulam Ahmed Sahib
>> the promised massiah. To be follower of one whom they love most in this world
>> they have every right to associate them with him. But in your example to deny
>> one person and to accuse him what right you have to associate with him? Your
>> example is totally irrational and illogical. It just reflect your bias attitude
>> towards Ahmadies. I read your all other series of postings but felt very
>> strongly that you are very much biased. I was expecting that you will come up
>> with some intellectual arguments but unfortunately that was absent in your
>> articles. I hope next time when you will post your article you will write
>> without any bias attitude. Be more reasonable and rational.
>> Hameed Mirza
> 
> Yes I was also expecting some logical argument from Mr Basalat Ali Raja, but it
> does seem that he don't have anything except to announce that Ahmadis are
> Non-muslim, without any knowlegde of Ahmadiyyat, Which is shocking to hear from
> Moderator. Please do some study about Ahmadiyyat or ask who have accepted the
> Massiah of this age or read the article by Mr Wright. 
> 
> Amjad Tariq, New Zealand. 


A quote from Mr. Nawaz Ahmed:
--
> ==================================================
>  Ahmadi Muslims are very different from mainstream Muslims in their
>  perspective on religion, interpretation of Quran and Islamic Teachings,
>  Prophethood, Khilafat (active leadership for regular religious
>  guidence),outlook towards life, culture, goles and aspirations, beliefs
>  about future events and solutions to present problems.
>
> NAWAZ AHMED
> NORTHWESTERN UNIVERSITY

There is only ONE perspective in Islam for *all* the Muslims and that is
following the sunnah of Prophet Muhammed (SAW).

If the Ahmadiyya community claim to have another perspective, they are a 
*different*  religion!!  (No matter how many dictionaries define it to
be a sect of Islam.)  I *will not* call another person claiming to be
Muslim a non-believer, but I also know that a Muslim has no need for
*Ahmadi* in front of Muslim. 


Create a seperate newsgroup since the need is to propaganda the Ahmadiya
religion.  The mainstream Muslims define Islam as following the
sunnah of Prophet Muhammed (SAW) and the Holy Quran.  Period.

Since the Ahmadiyya community claims to have a different perspective,
then they need a seperate newsgroup, but NOT under soc.religion.islam.


Rukhsana Merchant