HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: cb@tamarack13.timbuk (Chris Brewster)
Subject: Re: Film music
In-reply-to: brad@buck.viewlogic.com's message of 21 Jul 92 15:06:56 GMT
Organization: pubs
	<1992Jul21.150656.29549@viewlogic.com>
Date: 22 Jul 92 17:19:38 CDT

Bradford Kellogg writes:

   ... if you have not seen "Ivan", by all means do so. ...
   The score for Ivan is about twice
   the length of Nevsky, and it is called an Oratorio whereas I think
   Nevsky is called a Cantata (is that right?).

I'm a fan of this film too.  I always seem to come to works of art in
the wrong order, and I have the impression that Ivan was meant as a kind
of new "Boris Godunov" in a new medium.  Trouble is, I had never seen or
heard Boris when I first saw Ivan.  Is my impression correct of a fairly
obvious link between them?

Chris Brewster
From: henning@acsu.buffalo.edu (Karl conjoint Henning)
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
Subject: Re: Can you tell me the name of this piece of music?
Date: 27 Jul 92 20:48:39 GMT
Organization: UB

AB RAHIM,HARMAN SHAM writes:

>	Yesterday, while watching the first day of Olympic gymnastic    
>competition, I noticed that a piece of music is played over and over
>again to accompany the competitors.  I'm wondering if anyone can identify
>this piece of music.

No, I can't.

But the reason I'm responding is, the music for the women's gymnastic
floor exercises struck me as being a "composite";  the first bit sounded
like a chunk of a Mozartean slow movement, but then the meter & tempo
abruptly changed (the matter of key was cleverly edited, though), and
sounded more like a Russianish violin concerto.

To state the obvious, I too would be curious to know the actual source(s).

kph
-- 
"The man who does not read is no better off	      [] Karl Prescott Henning
 than the man who can't."			      []	  57 Glasgow st
			-- Samuel Langhorne Clemens   []	  Roch NY 14608
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
From: Rudy.Zalesak@bbs.oit.unc.edu (Rudy Zalesak)
Subject: Re: Anti-censorship T-shirts
Organization: Extended Bulletin Board Service
Date: Sat, 25 Jul 1992 14:53:24 GMT


This discussion probably doesn't belong on rec.music.classical, but
who knows, maybe *Lulu* or *The Miraculous Mandarin* will get 
stickered soon.

I don't agree with stickering albums, and if I were a teenager again
I would be really angry about it- I had nuns take books away from
me in grade school so I'm very touchy about censorship.

Chris is absolutely right about Guns'n'Roses though- what slime. I think
direct action (like adbusting- howabout counter posters that point out
that Axl seems to think rape is OK?) or protests would work better
and avoid censorship. Don't let G'n'R keep using rape as a subtext-
make them face it! 

If it became a public issue, maybe other acts would start avoiding
G'nR again, like they did when Axl was being openly homophobic.

Actually just thinking about this makes me angry enough to spit in Axl's
face. 

			-- Rudy Zalesak
--
   The opinions expressed are not necessarily those of the University of
     North Carolina at Chapel Hill, the Campus Office for Information
        Technology, or the Experimental Bulletin Board Service.
           internet:  bbs.oit.unc.edu or 152.2.22.80
From: eclipse@netcom.com (Brian McCullough)
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
Subject: Re: Good version of 'The planets' by Holst?
Date: 23 Jul 92 08:08:55 GMT
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services  (408 241-9760 guest)

t8800568@phillip.edu.au writes:
: Hello there.
: 
: This question might well have been answered recently in an FAQ or 
: otherwise, but could some kind sole recommend a version of 'The Planets'
: by Holst?  I really want a copy, but there are so many versions of
: this particular piece, that I dont want to be stuck with a dud.

Follow the recommendations of the others here and you won't go far wrong.
But also keep in mind, if you like 'The Planets', that there is other
Holst material worth trying out.  Chief among these are 'Egdon Heath'
(e.g., EMI CDC 7 49784 2, Previn / LSO) and 'The Hymn of Jesus' (EMI CDC  
7 49409 2, Groves / LPO et al.), imho.  (One of my life's minor goals
is to hear 'H of J' done live, but since it requires an ensemble the
size of a small city, I don't think I'll make it. :)

There is a London re-release with a Solti performance of 'Planets' and
a Boult 'Egdon Heath' on one disc.  However, recording quality is not up
to the newer releases, and you may find that Solti pays too much homage
to the composer's own conducting -- that is, the tempo seems too rushed.

-- 
Brian C. McCullough                                eclipse@netcom.com
Opinions ventured here are those of myself only.

"No tangled skein of stars can ward, I trow,
Who first hath set his tryst with Tristero."  (from memory; apologies to
M. Pynchon if it is misworded)
From: bellmann@qut.edu.au
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
Subject: Re: 20th c. "teaching pieces" for piano
Date: 29 Jul 92 14:34:49 EST
Organization: Queensland University of Technology

In article <1992Jul27.074943.8819@bsu-ucs.uucp> 00hfstahlke@bsu-ucs.uucp writes:
>I've been looking around for twentieth-century counterparts to the "teaching
>pieces of the eighteenth and nineteenth centuries, things like Bach's Two and
>Three-part Inventions or the sonatinas of Kuhlau, Reinecke, Spindler, and the
>like.  I found Bartok's _Mikrokosmos_, the Kabalevsky sonatina's, some rather
>nice things by Nielsen, and a collection or two, including one of rather easy
>pieces put together by Agay.  I would be very grateful if someone could
>recommend other works and composers, including things from atonal, minimalist,
>and American post-romantic schools. 
>
Have you tried any of Eric Satie's pieces? The three Gymnopedies and the six
Gnossiennes (or at least the first four) are very easy and a delight to play.
Try Aram Khachaturian's book "The adventures of Ivan", subtitled "Eight pieces
for students". They are very 20th century-like, very typical of Khachaturian
and really enjoyable. My copy was published by Ricordi but the copyright from
1948 belongs to Leeds Music from New York.
I'm sure Prokofieff has a similar collection but its name escapes me right now.
Scriabin has also some easy Preludes you could try.

Hector

Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
From: jcohen@ncsa.uiuc.edu (Jarrett S. Cohen)
Subject: Re: Mozart REQUIEM
Followup-To: rec.music.classical
Organization: National Center for Supercomputing Applications
Date: Thu, 23 Jul 1992 21:01:04 GMT

In article <1992Jul22.160953.21552@titan.tsd.arlut.utexas.edu>,
colby@tsd.arlut.utexas.edu (Colby Leider) wrote:
> 
> Does anyone know of a good recording of this work?
> Does Telarc have a recording with Shaw and the Atlanta S.O.?
> 
> Thanks.
> colby@titan.tsd.arlut.utexas.edu

I haven't heard the Shaw recording, but if you like quick tempi and
fantastic choral singing, try the John Eliot Gardiner-directed performance
by the English Baroque Soloists and the Monteverdi Choir.  I bought it on
the basis of Gardner's other choral interpretations, and I was not
disappointed.

Jarrett Cohen
From: brad@buck.viewlogic.com (Bradford Kellogg)
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
Subject: Vapidity (was Re: rec.music.carmina.burana)
Date: 31 Jul 92 16:15:49 GMT
Organization: Viewlogic Systems, Inc.
Originator: brad@buck


In article <1992Jul30.065623.25982@cs.ucla.edu>, pierce@lanai.cs.ucla.edu (Brad Pierce) writes:
|> In article <1992Jul27.175450.16942@news.columbia.edu> gmw1@cunixa.cc.columbia.edu (Gabe M Wiener) writes:
|> 
|> >Q10. What is the history behind Orff's Carmina Burana?
|> >
[previous answer deleted]

|> A complete answer to the question "what is the history behind Orff's
|> Carmina Burana" would put the composition itself (as opposed to its
|> sources) into historical perspective (e.g., was Orff a Nazi?) and
|> explain why such a vapid work has not faded into well-deserved
|> obscurity.
|> 
|> -- Brad Pierce --
|> 
I am so very pleased that you enjoy it so much. I am sponsoring a new 
recording performed entirely on kazoos. I will send you a copy as soon
as it is released.
From: bamn@venus.ycc.yale.edu
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
Subject: Bach Cantatas:Recommendation
Date: 28 Jul 92 16:12:59 GMT
Organization: Yale Computer Center (YCC)

hi
i am looking for some cantatas by bach, i dont know which
ones to buy. could someone recommend some good cantatas 
and the corresponding good recordings? preferably some
joyful ones.
thanks in advance!
naren

e-mail: bamn@venus.ycc.yale.edu
From: s2z@vax5.cit.cornell.edu
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
Subject: Complete Set of LvB Piano Sonatas
Date: 21 Jul 92 16:25:25 EDT
Distribution: rec
Organization: Cornell University

	I want to buy a complete set of Beethoven's Piano Sonatas on CD.  Can
anyone give me their opinions on any of the sets that exist?  I'd like one that
was recorded well and has a good interpretation of the sonatas.  Should I
instead try to find individual recordings of each?

Thanks,
Steve
From: maverick@cs.berkeley.edu (Vance Maverick)
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
Subject: Re: minimalism
Date: 31 Jul 1992 16:30:07 GMT
Organization: CS Division, UC Berkeley
Distribution: na
NNTP-Posting-Host: ginkgo.cs.berkeley.edu

In article <1992Jul30.223929.16854@tellab5.tellabs.com>, lampson@tellabs.com (Dave Lampson) writes:
|> In article <1992Jul28.230004.5875@nuscc.nus.sg> smoliar@iss.nus.sg (stephen smoliar) writes:
|> >>In article <Bs153C.127@quake.sylmar.ca.us> 
|> >>brian@quake.sylmar.ca.us (Brian K. Yoder) writes:
|> >>
|> >>>Cage had a piece called something like "Constructions in Metal" in which
|> >>>the "performers" banged on various metal objects including kitchen
|> >>>utensils.  
|>
|> [gives list of instruments]
|> 
|> >The absence of pots and pans will be obvious to anyone who takes the trouble to
|> >read this list [...]
|> 
|> I suspect that the absence of actual culinary accoutrements does little to
|> keep this piece from sounding as though it was actually performed on "pots
|> and pans", regardless of how the "resources are allocated".

What surprised me about Steve's response was that he felt the charge of
"banging on kitchen utensils" required rebuttal, or defense.  If the piece
did involve pots and pans, what would be wrong with that?  Some kitchen
items make great sounds -- the metal bowls that come in nests of 5 or 6,
for example, make beautiful portamento ringing tones when partly filled
with water.  Charles Amirkhanian, in a nice musique-concrete piece called
(I think) _Politics As Usual_, made good use of the sound of his coffee
grinder, working on a single bean.  If the familiarity of the source is an
objection, then surely the familiarity of style is an objection to the
entirely domesticated music of (for instance) a Vivaldi.  Dave?  Brian? 
Who gets hurt by the use of pots for music, and how?

	Vance
From: wilcox@vax.oxford.ac.uk
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
Subject: Re: Mozart REQUIEM
Date: 24 Jul 92 11:07:20 GMT
Organization: Oxford University VAXcluster

In article <1992Jul22.160953.21552@titan.tsd.arlut.utexas.edu>, colby@tsd.arlut.utexas.edu (Colby Leider) writes:
> Does anyone know of a good recording of this work?
> Does Telarc have a recording with Shaw and the Atlanta S.O.?
> 
One to avoid is by Hogwood (sudden thought: Help! Is it?) with the Acacdamy of
ancient Music orchestra and Men's Voices, the boys of Westminster Cathedral on
Soprano and Alto, Emma Kirkby and three other soloists. I was *very*
disappointed with this when I heard it. The editor of the score decided, for
what appear to be pretty good reasons, that the Su"ssmayr completions should
not be included, so he has cut them out and replaced the close of the
Lachrymosa with his own work, based on a Mozart organ something, and a /very/
dodgy fugue for the "Amen". The Sanctus & Benedictus are completely abandoned,
and much of the orchestration is slightly altered. What is left is only 45
minutes of music, much of which jars the senses of someone used to the
traditional version. 

The performance too is unusually (for these forces) rough. While Kirkby is
divine in the "Te decet" section of the opening movement---her voice floats
marvellously over the pretty beefy chorus---she does not have the voice to
blend with the other three soloists in the rest of the work. After a good
opening to the "tuba mirum", the three lowest soloists treating the notes very
much as an almost Romantic tune, plenty of (appropriate) vibrato and a good
sense of drama, Kirkby disappoints with her most treble-ish voice, and none of
the sensuousness for which she is rightly famed.

The soloists also disappoint as a quartet. Their movement (Sorry, I can't
remember which one off the top of my head) is lumpy, self-indulgently slow, and
really pretty monotonous. The chorus, too, is disappointing, with not enough
flexibility and contrast for this piece. I approached the recording expecting
to find a light, nicely classical touch, and instead found an old-fashioned
large Symphony Orchestra style of playing from a period band. I was very glad
that I could listen to the CD without buying it!

-- 

Stephen Wilcox             |   Remember what happened to the dinosaurs!
wilcox@maths.oxford.ac.uk  |    I did---and look what happened to me.
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
From: diarmuid@uniwa.uwa.edu.au (Diarmuid Pigott)
Subject: Re: Liverpool Oratorio - McCartney & Davis
Organization: University of Western Australia
Date: Tue, 21 Jul 1992 08:37:43 GMT

jdooley@maemaster.eng.uci.edu (John R. Dooley) writes:
: In article <CB.92Jul17160348@tamarack13.timbuk> cb@tamarack13.timbuk (Chris Brewster) writes:
: >
: >It's not a new genre.  There's been a lot of music trying to straddle
: >classical and jazz or pop.  Gershwin and Bernstein made the idea work,
: >but it's hard to think of very many other successful examples.  
: 
: Sure it is. 
: Ravel's piano concerto. 
: Some of Milhaud's ballet music.
: Copland mixed jazz into some of his music.

John Lewis of MJQ cooperated with Gunther Schuller and William Russo
amongst others to produce some very fine works in the genre that was
(then) called 3rd Stream. cf Third Stream Music, In Memoriam etc

Also Russo wrote Street Music and 3 Pieces for Blues Band and Piano for
Corky Siegal and Seiji Ozawa. Both pieces are very fine.

Eberhard Weber wrote some pretty good pieces of ~3rd Stream music as
well, though I can't recall their names offhand.
From: mikulska@crux.Princeton.EDU (Margaret Mikulska)
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
Subject: Re: Panfunik (should be: Panufnik)
Date: 24 Jul 92 17:16:10 GMT
Organization: Princeton University
Originator: news@ernie.Princeton.EDU

In article <12603@hardy.rl.ac.uk> irj@inf.rl.ac.uk (Ian R Jenkins) writes:
>
>Panufnik was a Polish emigree who settled in England during the 1950's [...]
>
>Of the works that I have heard, the 3rd symphony (Sinfonia Sacra) is the finest - 
[...]
>quoting  the ancient Polish war hymn, the Bogurudizca (spelling) [...]

"Bogurodzica" (meaning 'mother of God'), a monophonic hymn to the Virgin Mary,
used indeed as a war hymn.  One of the oldest preserved examples of Polish
music.

>BTW, Andrej Panufnik died in about November 1991.

That's 'Andrzej'.

-Margaret
From: pierce@lanai.cs.ucla.edu (Brad Pierce)
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
Subject: Great music from ballets
Date: 31 Jul 92 18:27:34 GMT
Reply-To: pierce@cs.ucla.edu
Organization: UCLA, Computer Science Department
Originator: pierce@lanai.cs.ucla.edu

At the beginning of July I asked:

  "Which do you consider the 10 greatest ballets considering only the
   music, i.e., pretending you don't know the intended purpose of the
   music?"

14 works by 10 composers received a solid endorsement from the net:

1. Tchaikovsky
            a. Swan Lake
            b. Sleeping Beauty
            c. Nutcracker

2. Stravinsky
            a. Le sacre du printemps
            b. Petroushka
            c. Agon

3. Prokofiev   Romeo and Juliet

4. de Falla    El sombrero de tres picos

5. Copland     Appalachian Spring

6. Debussy     Jeux

7. Bartok      The Miraculous Mandarin

8. Delibes     Coppelia

9. Ravel       Daphnis et Chloe

10. Barber     Cave of the Heart (Medea)



The strongest endorsement for another work was for:

   Glazunov    The Seasons

of which Raymond S. Tuttle writes:

  "It may not be profound, but damn, it's crammed with entrancing melodies.
   When I am totally depressed, this score never fails to cheer me up"
   
Thanks to all who participated.

-- Brad Pierce --
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
From: wilcox@vax.oxford.ac.uk
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
Subject: Re: rec.music.carmina.burana
Date: 30 Jul 92 13:37:12 GMT
Organization: Oxford University VAXcluster

In article <1992Jul30.065623.25982@cs.ucla.edu>, pierce@lanai.cs.ucla.edu (Brad Pierce) writes:
> 
> A complete answer to the question "what is the history behind Orff's
> Carmina Burana" would put the composition itself (as opposed to its
> sources) into historical perspective (e.g., was Orff a Nazi?) and
> explain why such a vapid work has not faded into well-deserved
> obscurity.
> 
Well, it's obvious, innit? I mean it's a bloody good tune. And it's loud. Vat's
wot we want, y'know? It's loud, an' it's good a bloody good beat. Yeah. Loud, a
good tune an' a good beat. And vere was them ads, weren't vere. Yeah, that
bloody surfer wiv 'is aftershave. An' then that lager ad wot took the piss
out'v it. Y'know? Yeah. 'Sgreat!

-- 

Stephen Wilcox             |   Remember what happened to the dinosaurs!
wilcox@maths.oxford.ac.uk  |    I did---and look what happened to me.
From: gt5571d@prism.gatech.EDU (AB RAHIM,HARMAN SHAM)
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
Subject: Can you tell me the name of this piece of music?
Date: 27 Jul 92 17:43:07 GMT
Organization: Georgia Institute of Technology

Hi!
	Yesterday, while watching the first day of Olympic gymnastic    
competition, I noticed that a piece of music is played over and over
again to accompany the competitors.  I'm wondering if anyone can identify
this piece of music.  Your help is very much appreciated.


:x

-- 
AB RAHIM,HARMAN SHAM
Georgia Institute of Technology, Atlanta Georgia, 30332
uucp:	  ...!{decvax,hplabs,ncar,purdue,rutgers}!gatech!prism!gt5571d
Internet: gt5571d@prism.gatech.edu
From: casseres@apple.com (David Casseres)
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
Subject: Re: Dance the Light Fandango [Re: Bach and religious feelings]
Date: 20 Jul 92 23:13:13 GMT
Organization: Apple Computer, Inc.

In article <1992Jul13.042619.3178@lclark.edu>, larryw@lclark.edu (Larry
Westdahl) writes:
> 
> I'm still not convinced.  Compare Bach's influence during his life with
> those of other composers during their lives, and I think you will find that
> most of his admirers were students, and those who were "in the business"
> religiously and musically.  Bach didn't live to see his day! I'm sure
> Bach was appreciated to some extent, but during his life he did not hold
> a candle to the people he influenced after him.  Understand, I'm just
> splitting hairs over the level of appreciation.

Well, instead of splitting hairs, how about relevant comparisons?  I think that
would mean comparing Bach's influence during his life with that of other
composers of the same period who also wrote primarily for the church.  You would
then find that Bach was at least as highly regarded as any of his peers.

> The reason I think most of this is silly is because it is only through
> comparison of other musicians before and after Bach that we can truly
> appreciate his extroardinary genius.

Ahem.  In fact, it is only by LISTENING TO BACH'S MUSIC that we can truly
appreciate his extraordinary genius.  We can learn more about it by comparison
with other composers, but again, the most fruitful comparison is with his peers,
not his antecedents or successors.  If we compare Bach to composers of other
eras, we learn about the music of Bach's era, but not so much about Bach in
particular.

> Bach, in his time, was known as 
> a genius at the organ, and everything else was secondary.

To whom?  To the various people who hired him as Kappellmeister because he could
be counted on to run the chorus and the orchestra impeccably as well as compose
an uninterrupted flow of the finest ecclesiastical music, *and* play the organ
like an angel?  To the crowds of parishioners who heard his music sung and
played day in and day out?  To the various patrons who commissioned all the many
non-ecclesiastical compositions, and the courts full of people who listened to
them?

In fact I suspect it was mainly the other musicians and students "in the
business" who left us with the image of a genius at the organ.  They were the
ones who heard all the brilliant improvisation.

> In his time, Bach was first, and foremost, an employee of the
> church, who happened to play the organ better than anyone in town.
> Today, he is a great composer.

He was always one.  I don't see how you can claim that the fact that he worked
mostly for the church made him any less of a composer, or how he is supposed to
have become a great composer after he was dead.  The music speaks for itself,
most eloquently.

--
David Casseres
Exclaimer:  Wow!
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
Subject: Re: Question about "Carmina Burana"
From: comjohn@ccu1.aukuni.ac.nz (Mr. John T Jensen)
Date: Thu, 23 Jul 1992 23:18:30 GMT
Organization: University of Auckland, New Zealand.

tsai@tecrus.enet.dec.com (Kuo-Yeang Tsai) writes:



>I am going to attend the "Carmina Burana" concert at Tanglewood this
>coming Augst 8th and I have a question which has been on my mind for
>a long time.

>Why does it (Carmina Burana) sound demoniac? 

>Even without reading the somewhat offensive lyrics, friend asked
>"Is this Satan-worshipping music?" upon hearing the first few 
>passages.

>Thanks in advance for your answer!
>kyt

Because it was written by Carl Orff at the time when Germany was turning
Nazi (from the already screwed-up cultural background of the Weimar
Republic).  Also because the lyricists who wrote the original poetry were
themselves often deeply involved in what eventually became the Renaissance
which had lots of gnosticism and return to classical (=pagan) roots.

IMHO, and mostly just a guess from the dates involved.  So would someone who
knows the REAL history like to set me straight?  Or confirm my guess?

jj

John Thayer Jensen                      64 9 373 7599 ext. 7543
Commerce Computer Services              64 9 373 7437 (FAX)
Auckland University                     jt.jensen@aukuni.ac.nz
Private Bag 92019
AUCKLAND
New Zealand
From: blue@cam.nist.gov (Jim_Blue_x3809)
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
Subject: Re: Borodin (was: Dvorak)
Date: 29 Jul 92 13:59:53 GMT
Organization: National Institute of Standards and Technology, Gaithersburg, MD

In article <1992Jul28.222513.16625@tellab5.tellabs.com>, lampson@tellabs.com (Dave Lampson) writes:
|> In article <1992Jul21.212126.3555@u.washington.edu> dcoder@u.washington.edu writes:
|> >In article <1992Jul20.221607.5217@tellab5.tellabs.com> lampson@tellabs.com  
|> >(Dave Lampson) writes:
|> >>In article <1992Jul17.141214.7912@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu>  
|> >>jefrank@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (Jason E Frank) writes:
|> >>>While we're on the subject, does any of you have a favorite reading of
|> >>>Borodin's Quartet No. 2?  I have the one done by the Emerson Quartet which
|> >>>I'm very fond of, but I'm interested in alternative interpretations 
|> >>>(especially any which are paired with his No. 1).  Thanks.
|> 
|> >>EMI                         Melodiya                  CDC7477952     (1) 
|> 
|> >..
|> >Is this a reissue of the old Melodiya/Odyssey recording of #1 with the original
|> >Borodin Quartet (with Messrs. Alexandrov, Dubinsky, et al.)? A more recent  
|> >recording got a lesser review as I recall.
|> 
|> 
|> I believe it's the later version;  Here's the lineup:
|> 
|> Violin                       KOPELMAN, Mikhail
|> Violin                       ABRAMENKOV, Andrei
|> Viola                        SHEBALIN, Dmitri
|> Cello                        BERLINSKY, Valentin
|> 
|> There was also a release on La Chant du Monde of a Melodiya recording, which
|> received negative reviews.  I seem to remember it was the earlier one that 
|> got the less favorable reviews, but perhaps that was based primarily on sound 
|> quality.

This is also a Melodiya re-release from 1980, according to the CD label.