From: stojanov@husc11.harvard.edu (Milan Stojanovic)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.croatia,soc.culture.bosna-herzgvna
Subject: Joe, young and forgetful ( when it suits him )
Date: 28 Dec 92 23:04:14 GMT
Organization: Harvard University Science Center


In article <BzzEt2.4vI@ecf.toronto.edu> Joe Blazic wrote:
>In article <1992Dec28.101218.18865@husc3.harvard.edu> stojanov@husc11.harvard.edu (Milan Stojanovic) writes:
>>
>>Direct answer for your standard "argument" is that while 
>>Croatia quickly decided to provoke and attack ex-Yu army ( similar
>>thing happened in Bosnia )
>
>Absolutely false Milan.  I'd like to see you *try* to substantiate this
>with reliable references.  You really set yourself up here.  Please do
      -------
Gee, Joe, do you ever read anything except "Toronto Star&Sun?"
(Even that one on occasions you misinterpret, as we might remember)

Joe, you are extremely forgetful. Take any of the newspaper, both 
Croatian and Serbian ( and some foreign - Croatians are blocking
the peace process by refusing to lift siege of bases -) from that 
time an tell me:

-Who blocked military bases in Croatia and tried to take them over?
Zagreb, Split, Pula, Varazdin, Jastrebarsko, Osijek, Zadar, Karlovac,
Gospic, Sibenik, Bjelovar...
Should I remind you of the case of Samobor?  Taken by Croats in the
midst of cease-fire?  Vinkovci and Vukovar?  First siege in Vukovar was
the one of the military base there.   S. Vance in McNeil@Lehrer
news  claimed that one of the reasons of the sewerity of the Yu-army 
responce is exactly this.  Did you occasionally read 
"Danas?"  Probably not, but there was interview there with Zimmerman,
ex-representative in Yu of USA.  He criticised Croats for the way 
officers' families were treated, while he at the same time criticised
Yu-army for exaggerating the response ( I think that he should have his
family captured by Ustashas and himself surrounded by same people, and
I'd like to see him "responding." I'd blow them away, you Joe?) 

I believe that enough references you could find even in Cro-news of
that time.
(BTW, Joe I admit that I do not keep all what I have read on file, If
you hope for that.  This is what is known as common knowledge to 
everyone following it ).

Was this an act of friendship and love by Croats? And now, Dr. Wickerhauser
is complaining that army left most of the weapons to Serbs?! ( Of course,
you forgot that initial argument was about this!). 

-In Bosnia - who declared Yu army an enemy army and declared state of
war against it?  Day after there was an agreement that army should be 
pulled out peacefully?  Agreement reached in Macedonia between still 
in power Veljko Kadijevic and Alija Izetbegovic? Should I remind you on 
Capljina, Mostar, Travnik bases, that were under siege for some months
before all this started in Bosnia? Ah, yes, that is not B&H...
Should I remind you how were soldiers kept in Sarajevo?  Who attacked them
after there was an agreement that they should leave? This was described 
even in NYT. 

>try to prove this bull.  Myself and an archive of mailing list news await
>your reply.  And, BTW, you should find the time (i.e. I recall last week
>you copped-out of a losing argument by writing "I have no time to reply
>to everything..." and proceeded to post pages and pages of 'relevant
>history, etc etc'.) for at least a brief rebuttal.

Would you remind me of "the loosing argument?"  At the same time I was 
(accidentally or in agreement) challenged by :

-Mr. Loncaric
-Mr. Borcic
-Mr. Kurtovic
-You
-( Even Sharon, if I remember well)

Being alone, I am not able to respond to everything, and I have to 
set up certain hierarchy.  
Unlike some others, I do have other duties to attend, not only 
writting on the network.

>
>Regards,
>
>Joe Blazic
>
>P.S.  Milan, when you write such false statements, how are we supposed to
>      take your 'historical expertise' seriously and on faith?

I see no falsehood in the above statement. You might try at best to argue 
about what were the reasons for Croatian behaviour.

About history, up to now, I have provided you with original German sources 
about what you asked for.  This was my priority, so there is nothing on
faith.  If you want to read about WWII Croatia and Serbia, the best source
is:

Documents on German Foreign Policy, Series D and E.
 
Everything is exactly described there as it is.  Who is who on 
Balkans.  Details might be found elsewhere. Of course to intepret
something from there, you must have some previous knowledge.
Otherwise, it might be dangerous. BTW, E is, as far as I
know, not translated.  But, since you did not complain about 
my postings of the original documents, that should not be problem.
Or is it possible that you were not actually not interested
in documents and truth, but...No, I could not believe that about you 8-).

Regards,

Milan
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