HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: mike%jim.uucp@wupost.wustl.edu (Mike S.)
Subject: Subwoofer enclosures (was Re: Subwoofer box carpeting!)
Organization: BITS, St. Louis, MO
Date: Tue, 06 Oct 1992 21:21:53 GMT
Keywords: sub subwoofer speaker box enclosure carpeting covering rec audio car

>|> Just got done with my first sub enclosure.  Now, my question is,
>|> how do you carpet these things?

> As I too am about to build a box, I (and others) would
> like to hear all about how you built yours.  What speaker
> what specs, what type of box, what Fr, what volume, what
> dimensions, what materials, how much time, costs, etc.

Well, I wouldn't exactly use mine as a model for all others
to follow :)  Keep in mind, it was my first attempt.  And it
was fun! 

So far I have found the enclosure to be tuned a bit higher than
I would have liked, but I made the box as large as I could for
it to fit in the desired location.

The box is presently sealed, but I am looking at porting, adding
damping material, etc, to lower the box's effective tuning point.

I used 5/8" thick board.  The box fits perfectly where I want it
(in the 'hole' behind the rear seat in a Dodge Stealth--the front
of the box rests against the back of the rear seats ), and looks
something like this:  (the rectangular ends follow the trim mold
almost perfectly--if I can find the right color carpeting, it will
look like part of the stock car!  Maybe I can convince State Farm
to give me a discount :)

                         27"                              6"
	    ----------------------------               --------
	  /            Top               \             |        \*  <- Woofer
	 ----------------------------------       10.5"|          \*   (front)
        /             ******               \           |  Side      \
       /     Front   ********  < Woofer     \	       ---------------
      /               ******                 \            10"
      ----------------------------------------         
                     37"                              

I am not 100% on all of the dimensions.

The internal volume is approx 0.9', if I remember right.  The woofer
is a 10" driver, and as I stated in another post, I currently have
a Pyle Driver I, which I am going to swap out to try a Pioneer (which
is spec'd to have a freq response down to 18Hz) and/or a Crunch
10" driver.

I used silicone caulking/sealer to seal the edges/corners, and screws
to hold it together.  It is very solid.  Unfortunately, I am not sure
how I am going to carpet it yet!  Even uncarpeted, it looks pretty
good with the metal waffle-style grille.

As far as how long it took me, I built it last week (took me 2 1/2
evenings)--my deadline was Thursday, because I was taking a road
trip on Friday :)

The sound is very clean, but a bit 'boomy', since the box tuning
point is a bit high for my liking.

I am hoping that porting the box and/or adding damping material
will help with that.  I suppose I could also add a second driver
(should have room if I cut another front baffle--God knows I have
plenty of wood left!  I got a 4'x 8' sheet.).

Mike
-- 
mike%jim.uucp@wupost.wustl.edu
From: parker@iccgcc.decnet.ab.com
Newsgroups: rec.audio.car
Subject: Round vs. Oval Speakers
Date: 2 Oct 92 08:37:23 EST

     I am seeking opinions from experienced installers regarding
round vs. oval speakers.

     I am thinking of buying raw speakers from Madisound and either
making my own "plate" type speakers with a 6-1/2 inch woofer and some
kind of dome tweeter, or else just buying a pair of Madisound/Audax
coaxials, e.g. 6-1/2 inch model 6102/Audax. Total cost would be in
the $80 to $100 range for the pair.

     Has anyone compared the sound of this kind of setup to widely
sold 6x9's in this price range, e.g. Pioneers or Kenwoods?

     This will be a modest installation in a 1980 Le Mans: The head
unit will be a "high power" Kenwood or Sherwood, with an honest 12W
RMS into 4 ohms, per channel. Yes, TWELVE Watts or so. Assume no
outboard amp for now. I'm looking for clean bass and smooth frequency
response, NOT trying to get >100 dB at < 100 Hz. These speakers will
go into the rear deck, with a pair of 3-1/2 inchers in the stock location
up front, probably Pioneer TS-879 coaxials.

                                              Thanks,
                                               Gary

+---------------------------+------------------------------------------------+
|        Gary Parker        |       E-Mail: parker@iccgcc.decnet.ab.com      |
+---------------------------+------------------------------------------------+
|                      Men make gods in their own image                      |
+----------------------------------------------------------------------------+
| The views expressed are not necessarily those of the Allen-Bradley Company,|
| its parent company, or subsidiaries.  Your actual mileage may vary.        |
+----------------------------------------------------------------------------+
From: kmr4@po.CWRU.edu (Wolphgang)
Newsgroups: rec.audio.car
Subject: Re: ALPINE SUCKS!! (still)
Date: Sun, 4 Oct 1992 15:27:44 GMT
Organization: I'm not very organized!
NNTP-Posting-Host: b64701.student.cwru.edu

In article <1992Oct4.133552.7061@cbfsb.cb.att.com> mxl@cbnewsg.cb.att.com (marc.a.levy) writes:

>A few months ago I posted a message about my experience with
>ALPINE products, and I am unhappy to say that after speaking
>with a few of the executives at Alpine, their customer service
>quality matches the crap they put out on the market.

	I admit, I am at a loss here. I have had wonderful service 
from Alpine. When two of my amplifiers were damaged in a autowreck,
they still repaired them under warrentee!  

	What exactly are you trying to have done? Do you have all the 
necessary proof of purchases, and is the item in question still under
warrentee? ( or, did you originally file a claim while it was still under
warrentee?) How are you going about this? etc.

>
>I could have gotten better service and better quality product
>from Pyramid! (sure, it would not have sounded as good, but it
>would have lasted longer!) 

	The quality of the sound isn't a component of the objects quality?


>A word of advice: Alpine is living on their OLD IMAGE of
>Quality, they are spending their R&D dollars on making a
>cheaper OEM radio for Honda, and contine to make a high margin
>on their "Alpine" products from suckers (like I was) who will
>still think that Alpine is Quality.

	Which products are these? You are very unspecific, do you have
any product lines and/or models you have a particular problem on?

	Also, a company that large would not, could not devout itself 
entirely on working on one particular radio.


	( for those that are wondering, I am posting using a different 
connection than normal. I have "altered" the reply path, so replying 
to me may get to my cwru account, but it may not )
>
>A $600 CD player that is used MABY 40 Hours in the past 3
>years should still work! But, It does'nt.  My friends Craig
>that he bought for half the price still works, and he uses it
>EVERY DAY!        

	You havn't specified where it is located, how it is installed,
what is wrong, etc. 

Newsgroups: rec.audio.car
From: bell@asdsun.larc.nasa.gov (John Bell)
Subject: Alpine 3513 amp - good/bad? 
Keywords: Alpine amp help 
Organization: NASA Langley Research Center, Hampton, VA  USA
Date: Mon, 28 Sep 1992 19:22:55 GMT

A friend of a friend has offered to sell an Alpine 3513 for $50...can anyone
tell me anything about this amp? Specs? Good/bad experiences? Is this a good
price/ripoff/waste of money? Thanks for the help.

-----

John Bell
NASA Langley Research Center
bell@haloe.larc.nasa.gov
804-864-7121
From: st1q9@rosie.uh.edu (Devine, Della M)
Newsgroups: rec.audio.car
Subject: Re: Lanzar amps
Date: 29 Sep 92 03:59:00 GMT
Article-I.D.: rosie.28SEP199222591271
Organization: University of Houston
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41

In article <1992Sep28.153412.43422@kuhub.cc.ukans.edu>, dcohn@kuhub.cc.ukans.edu writes...
>I am going to buy a new amp and would like a few suggestions. I have decided
>that Lanzar is the brand to go with but I'm not sure if I should go with the
>Plus 100 or the Opti 100. I'm going to be running 3 4 ohm Lanzar 15's in
>parallel. I know that both amps can easily handle this load(.6 omhs mono). I
>know that the Opti seris is fiberoptic and produces a cleaner signal, it
>also keeps waves from being clipped. But I have heard that the plus series
>puts out more power. Any suggestions? Also I want to build an 8th order, but
>there isn't much info out on them can anyone help?
>Thanks

      The Plus series is a high current competition amplifier.
It will do i think 50 wpc into 4 ohms/channel. 100 into 2ohms/c. 200 into 
1 ohm/channel, and 400 into .5 ohms/channel. so you can get 800 watts outta
this amplifier running into four 4 ohm subs in parallel. If you run 3 subs
in parallel, you'd see roughly 700w, give or take 50w. total, divided up
into three subs. so each would see roughly 233 watts each, also, give or take
15w or so. Personally, I'd go for the Plus 100. I've got a friend who has 
one of these running four Kicker C-18's and it Kicks!!!

                                    Enjoy yourself.
                                    william c devine ii
Newsgroups: rec.audio.car
From: brian@pawnee.eel.ufl.edu (Brian Gentry)
Subject: Re: large capacitors
Organization: UF EE Department (student)
Date: Thu, 1 Oct 92 21:18:01 GMT

In a reply about caps Jason Reiser says:

  There are some
  electronics suppliers that have caps up to about 300,000 microfarads,
  but I believe that Autosound 2000 is currently the only source for the
  800,000 uf and 1 farad caps.  I believe that there are larger ones in
  development (about 1.2 or 1.3 farads).  

Keep in mind that capacitors can be placed in parallel to add their
capacitances.  So one 200,000 uF and one 100,000 uF in parallel are
equivilent to one 300,000 uF cap.  I have seen a capacitor in DigiKey's
catalog that was 4.4 Farads (not microfarads).  It was a cap used for
power backup in computers so I think it's voltage rating was only 5.5
volts continuous.  It was also exceptionaly small (about 2" diameter
and 1" tall if I remember correctly).  So, I think that there must be
larger value caps that have a 12 volt or higher voltage rating.  I'll
have to look around for some.  In the mean time I can still use 10
or 20 smaller caps to get as much capacitance as I need.  

BTW, while I respect both Richard Clark and David Navone, I believe 
that their products are Incredibly over priced.  The 800,000uF caps
are around $100 each if I remember correctly.  You can get smaller
(~100,000 uF) caps in bulk for substantialy less.  As to their claims
of equivilent Direct Current Resistance (DCR) being a factor in their
caps, I'd like to see/hear an A/B comparison of two systems.  One
system with the Clark/Navone caps and one with several smaller, cheaper
caps in parallel.  I don't think the difference would be audible, but
who knows (that's why I want the A/B test).

			Brian L. Gentry
		   (brian@sioux.eel.ufl.edu)
From: julian@frey.lbl.gov (julian cortella)
Newsgroups: rec.audio.car
Subject: Recommendation for Anti-Theft Stereo
Date: 1 Oct 1992 16:36:30 GMT
Organization: Lawrence Berkeley Laboratory, Berkeley, CA USA
Distribution: world
NNTP-Posting-Host: 128.3.128.81

Salut,

I am looking for a new stereo for my '85 VW Cabriolet.  I am curious
about the removable face units, such as the one Pioneer is advertising
on TV these days.  I currently have a slide-mount stereo.  I was
wondering if anyone had recommendations on a removable face unit for under
$400.  

Also, since my car is a convertible, do you think it is wise to get a
stereo in which only the face is removable?  I'm a bit worried that
leaving the main guts exposed would still be too tempting to your
average thief.

So, please send me your opinions on brands and slide-mount vs. 
removable face configurations.  I would also like to find a 
good source for such stereos.

merci,

julian

P.S.  I am currently in the  S.F. Bay Area, but will be moving to
      to Paris, soon.  Should I buy the stereo here or there? 
Newsgroups: rec.audio.car
From: mxl@cbnewsg.cb.att.com (marc.a.levy)
Subject: ALPINE SUCKS!! (still)
Organization: AT&T
Date: Sun, 4 Oct 1992 13:35:52 GMT

A few months ago I posted a message about my experience with
ALPINE products, and I am unhappy to say that after speaking
with a few of the executives at Alpine, their customer service
quality matches the crap they put out on the market.

I could have gotten better service and better quality product
from Pyramid! (sure, it would not have sounded as good, but it
would have lasted longer!) 

A word of advice: Alpine is living on their OLD IMAGE of
Quality, they are spending their R&D dollars on making a
cheaper OEM radio for Honda, and contine to make a high margin
on their "Alpine" products from suckers (like I was) who will
still think that Alpine is Quality.

A $600 CD player that is used MABY 40 Hours in the past 3
years should still work! But, It does'nt.  My friends Craig
that he bought for half the price still works, and he uses it
EVERY DAY!        

Alpine Complaint Numbers:

1-800-421-2635

Allen Bills: Ex#331
Joe Cagle  : Ex#330


Marc.

Newsgroups: rec.audio.car
From: mike%jim.uucp@wupost.wustl.edu (Mike S.)
Subject: Subwoofer box carpeting!
Organization: BITS, St. Louis, MO
Date: Fri, 02 Oct 1992 15:53:02 GMT
Summary: Tips on subwoofer enclosure carpeting
Keywords: sub subwoofer speaker box enclosure carpeting covering rec audio car

Just got done with my first sub enclosure.  Now, my question is,
how do you carpet these things??

The carpeting on premade boxes in the stores (which I couldn't use
because I needed an odd shape) looks seamless and perfect--even the
corners!

How do the do it?  And where do they get the very short pile carpeting?

I guess I could just fleck-stone (flex-stone? whatever) the thing,
but then it may squeek against the interior.

Thanks
Mike
-- 
mike%jim.uucp@wupost.wustl.edu
Newsgroups: rec.audio.car
From: st1q9@rosie.uh.edu (Devine, Della M)
Subject: Re: 2 subs vs. 4
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41    
Organization: University of Houston
Date: Mon, 5 Oct 1992 04:28:00 GMT

In article <69907@hydra.gatech.EDU>, gt0869a@prism.gatech.EDU (WATERS,CLYDE GORDON) writes...
>No, the output from the 4 10" woofers will in theory be 3 dB louder. 
>This is from mutual coupling- every time you double the # of drivers,
>sensitivity should go up 3 dB (double the acoustic output for the same
>poewr) This is one reason small amp systems with 130+ dB output exist-
>get enough drivers next to each other, and they will get LOUD! 

   When you double the power to the same amount of drivers you get an 
increase of 3 db. When you increase the radiating surface area
(i.e. 4-10's instead of 2-10's) you get an increase of 6 db if you put
the same amount of power into each driver as you were with the original 
amt. So, if you were running two svc 10's at 100w each and added two
more svc 10's at 100w each (you did say your amp did 100wpc at 4ohm and
200wpc at 2ohm?), then you would see an increase of roughly 6db.
   It usually works this way. Now, when you keep the same amount
of power but split it up into twice as many drivers, you won't see 
an increase of a whole 3db but it should be close. (at decent power levels,
not just 1 watt split into multiple woofers!).
> 
>REgards,
>Gordon.
> 
                       william c devine ii
From: kmr4@po.CWRU.Edu (Keith M. Ryan)
Newsgroups: rec.audio.car
Subject: Re: Wanted-->Help with a folded horn design subwoofer box?
Date: 3 Oct 1992 04:04:29 GMT
Organization: Case Western Reserve University, Cleveland, OH (USA)
Reply-To: kmr4@po.CWRU.Edu (Keith M. Ryan)
NNTP-Posting-Host: thor.ins.cwru.edu


In a previous article, jsmith@ug.cs.dal.ca (Jeff N Smith) says:

>Help!
>
>I am looking for any information on designing a folded horn subwoofer box.  I would
>prefer a computer program but any information would be useful.  I have Perfect
>Box 4.56, Rockford Fosgate Installers Guide (this is where I saw the design)
>and the Stillwater Designs (Kicker) Speaker builders guide and none of these 
>have any information.  
>
>This type of box is odd in size (unusually large) but will play VERY LOW.
>
>Finally I would like to know if there are any other computer programs
>available other than PerfectBox, Kicker mention one called LEAP.
>
>Any information on complex enclosure would also be appeciated (isobaric,
>band pass, 6'th and higher order, folded horn etc.).


	I suggest you write to Klipsh. They've been in the folded horn
business for a very long time. I have a published book from them from
1985 or so. However, it is at home. I will try to ask my father next 
time I talk to him if he can find it for my, so I can post a short summary
with publishing data. 

	When they work, they work great. However, they are extremely
difficult to perfect. And, they take very great capentry skills. Another
possibility would be a transmission line sub. These get phenomenum bass
from small speakers. TDL speakers are world renowned for tranmission lines.
They have one with just a 6X9 semi-oval which is flat to 25 hz! In home too!
I do know that they are a very popular home speaker project. If you can 
find someone with a speaker builder magazine index, you can check out for
some recent articles. ( someone on rec.audio will probably be able to 
tell you more ) 

Klipsch
P.O. box 688
Hope, Ark. 71801
-- 

	" It's time for Congress to tell the president to shove his 
	veto pen up his deficit! "  
					- Rep. Jim Traficant.
From: rslau@usc.edu (Robert Lau)
Newsgroups: rec.audio.car
Subject: Re: large capacitors
Date: 30 Sep 1992 23:42:44 -0700
Organization: University of Southern California, USA
NNTP-Posting-Host: tarazed.usc.edu
In-reply-to: rkb6116@rigel.tamu.edu's message of Thu, 1 Oct 1992 00:01:00 GMT

In article <30SEP199219015790@rigel.tamu.edu> rkb6116@rigel.tamu.edu (Mr. Weather) writes:

   I have seen many installations and heard much talk here about the use
   of large capacitors in car audio set ups.  What are they used for?

To maim or otherwise permanently injure anybody attempting to steal
the equipment...  They don't tell you that the bottom of each cap is
coated with phosphorous which is ignited when the alarm goes off,
thereby heating up the cap and causing it to explode violently in a
shower of electrolytic acid...

8^)

-- 
Robert Lau - Systems Programmer, Unix Systems     213-740-2866
--  University Computing Services                 Internet: rslau@usc.edu
--  University of Southern California             Bitnet:   rslau@uscvm
--  1020 W Jefferson, LA, CA  USA, 90089-0251     UUCP:     ...!uunet!usc!rslau
From: jl6p+@andrew.cmu.edu (Josh S Linder)
Newsgroups: rec.audio.car
Subject: Re: ALPINE SUCKS!! (still)
Date: 5 Oct 92 22:56:07 GMT
Organization: Freshman, CIT general, Carnegie Mellon, Pittsburgh, PA

That's basically why I bought a Pioneer for a new Honda - the 6200.  For
a person that has never had a radio worth more than $100 in any car
(well, maybe my Blaupunkt was more, but wasn't worth it), the Pioneer is
great. So great that I'll be buying an 8200 for my Honda.  Some say
they're overpriced, some say they're crap, well, I'm happy, and so is
everyone I know who has one (except for one who ran over his remote
control).  Alpines look neat and do neat stuff (like the 3-disk in-dash
changer that doesn't work in a car with a low radio bay or a shallow
radio bay), but their quality has, basically, gone to shit.  Thanks for
the info, though, I'll pass it along.
Newsgroups: rec.audio.car
Subject: Re: decreasing enclosure size with multiple drivers?
From: <UD180926@NDSUVM1.BITNET>
Date: Tuesday, 29 Sep 1992 13:00:15 CDT
Organization: North Dakota Higher Education Computer Network

Well, at the shop I work at in ND, we have put together a few kick-butt
systems.  We sell Kicker, HiFonics, PPI, Nak, and Kenwood for major brands.
Two of the systems stand out.  One is in a Cougar and he had the rear seats
entirley removed.  We then placed 4 Kicker c-15s in the back seat in their
reccomended enclosure volume.  Ran them with two HiFonics Cyclops, and it
hit hard.  He registered 134 in SPL.

The second system is in a Ford Explorer.  We  built a box for 4 kicker c-12s
and decreased the volume of each box to around 1.6 cubic feet.  They are
powered by a PPI Ax600 into a 2 ohm brided mode.  The rest of the system
is run by a PPI Ax400.  This one blew the Cougar with 4 15s aways as far
as SPL and sound quality.  I have been a firm believer in the Kicker c-12
for a long time, as it is a much more musical speaker.

Needless to say the guy with 4 15s was pissed, but, that's what keeps them
coming back for more!  heheh

Brad
Newsgroups: rec.audio.car
From: mike%jim.uucp@wupost.wustl.edu (Mike S.)
Subject: Perfect Box
Organization: BITS, St. Louis, MO
Date: Tue, 29 Sep 1992 16:11:14 GMT
Summary: Perfect Box program
Keywords: perfect box subwoofer speaker


I have been hearing about Perfect Box for months, and suddenly I
am in need of the program.  Unfortunately, I have been unable to
find it after having searched archie with nearly every permutation
of 'perfect' and 'box'.

Where is this program?!?  Or at least, what is it's ->ACTUAL<-
filename?  If anyone knows where it would be on wuarchive, that
would be the best for me.

I understand this program allows you to design a box to perfectly
match a given driver.  Does it allow you to customize the shape?
ie, can you have a sloped baffle area?

Thanks!
Mike
-- 
mike%jim.uucp@wupost.wustl.edu
From: trw@spl1.spl.loral.com (Tim R Witort)
Newsgroups: rec.audio.car
Subject: Re: DAT, DCC
Date: 28 Sep 92 19:47:07 GMT
Organization: Loral Software Productivity Laboratory

In article <1992Sep28.143044.9371@noose.ecn.purdue.edu>, rjwade@rainbow.ecn.purdue.edu (Robert J. Wade) writes:
|> 
|> does anyone know if/when these will be available for car units?
|> i once saw an ad for a DAT unit but since then nothing.

   I own a Sony car DAT deck. It cost $400. I got it from Crutchfield,
but I don't think they're carrying it anymore.

-- Tim
Newsgroups: rec.audio.car
From: "chad thomas" <chad.thomas@canrem.com>
Subject: us: anyone out there?
Reply-To: "chad thomas" <chad.thomas@canrem.com>
Organization: Canada Remote Systems
Distribution: rec
Date: 6 Oct 92 14:37:39 EST

HI.

    If anyone out there receives this outside of dosgate!...pls respond.
To date I have received no answers to my questions on crossover lobing
or reccommendations for a sub amp.  Nothing on Blade Technologies resps'
either.  Just drop me a line ... hello.  Just so I know the net is
getting it.

Thanks in advance...        Chad Thomas for Dave Argiropulos
--
Canada Remote Systems  - Toronto, Ontario
World's Largest PCBOARD System - 416-629-7000/629-7044
From: walkerr@yaya.WPI.EDU (Robert A Walker)
Newsgroups: rec.audio.car
Subject: speakers and enclosures
Date: 30 Sep 1992 02:19:02 GMT
Organization: Worcester Polytechnic Institute
NNTP-Posting-Host: yaya.wpi.edu


I've got two realistic 12 inch subs.  Go ahead, i know they aren't 
the best or even great, but I am on a seriously restricted budget an i 
picked them up for 50 bucks when a friedn of mine upgraded.  Now my 
question is I put the statistics for these speaker into the equation
Qts^2.87 * 15 * Vad and came up with a volume of 12.414 cubic foot 
ported enclosure.  Now is thi{ reasonable or is the equation wrong.
Qts = .38
Vas = 13.3

I don't have the room for a box that is 1' 5" x 2'4" x 3'9" in my 
Bronco, nevermind two of them.  Anyone know the equation for a sealed 
box.  I hope it comes out to be a lot less.  The space i have
for a single box is somewere aroun 10" depth x 22" tall x 16" wide. give or
take a few inches on the width since it will be on an angle, but is this
an adequete sp?  size box if it sealed.  There will only be 60 watts
driving each sub, again I'm on a limited budget.
Thanx