From: adamsr@AIS.ORG (Rick Adams)
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.psycgrad
Subject: Re: Sexism, etc.
Date: 12 Nov 92 19:58:57 GMT
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              92 09:02:49 am

> RE:  Going to the woods and beating drums.
>
> That's fine with me as long as the men are not engaging in the
 "female-bashing"
> which I understand is part of this "ritual".  In her book Backlash,
> Susan Faludi (granted not the most objective perspecitve on this topic)
> discusses Robert Bly's Real Men movement.  I won't go into grave detail
> here, but she talks about how the underlying "theory" is that women have
> made men soft and men need to reassert their "rightful" dominance.
>
        I =really= wanted to stay out of this one (sigh).

        I agree that "female-bashing" is a negative and inappropriate
behavior for a men's group.

        Of course, feminist groups =never= bash males, right? ;-\

        You mention Susan Faludi's response to Robert Bly's work, and cite
this as your demonstration of the problem. Shame on you - if one of your own
students tried to cite a secondary source as a demonstration of the problems
in a primary source, you would flunk them! Bly is available in every library
- read him and decide for yourself if he advocates "female-bashing." From
everything I've read (primary =and= secondary) he doesn't appear to do so.

        I =do= have problems with the concepts he is presenting - as I do
with much of the men's movement as a whole. My problem is that it tends to
further divide people who need to work together. There =are= problems which
exist for =both= men and women, which are based on inappropriate behaviors
by members of the other sex. Those problems, however, will not be solved by
groups consisting solely of men *OR OF WOMEN*. They will be solved by groups
of =people= who recognize both the equality and the unique differences
inherent in the sexes. Neither "female-bashing" masculinists nor "all sex is
rape" feminists are doing anything positive for their sexes, the former are
perpetuating myths which disempower women while the latter are preaching
hatred and prejudice under a guise of supporting women. Both are equally
sexist and bigoted.

        Years ago, as an undergraduate at the University of Michigan, I
enrolled in a women studies class called "Women and the Law" which examined the
effects of sexism on women in today's society. At the time, I felt it
important to my growth to more fully understand the subtilities of the
issue. The class had a discussion group element - and I was the only man
enrolled (I believe women's studies are important for men to participate
in). In the first meeting of the discussion group the question was raised as
to the appropriateness of a man participating in the class. I assumed the
consensus would be that it was a positive indicator that at least =some= men
were interested in the issues. It turned out that the consensus was that it
was disgusting that a man was present, that it would prevent free discussion
of the issues, but that the regulations of the University permitted it so
there was nothing that could be done other than to tolerate my unwanted
presence. The discussion leader (an Assistant Professor, as I recall) was as
hostile toward my presence as any student. I left the discussion group and
dropped out of the UM (this was the last of a string of frustrations with
the school). This type of behavior is all too frequent in academic settings
and it underlines a basic problem with the women's movement - an
unwillingness to involve men in the issues - and a very strong tendancy to
stereotype men as inaccurately as we are accused of stereotyping women.

        Before assuming that men are automatically stereotyping women, it's
well to ask if you yourself are not automatically stereotyping men! Those
who point their fingers at "Playboy" as proof that men view women as sex
objects rather than as individuals might want to consider the literary
merits of "Playgirl" as well!

        Peace,

        Rick

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