From: erc@unislc.uucp (Ed Carp)
Subject: Re: guilt & catch 22
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1 PL6]
Organization: Unisys Corporation SLC
Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1992 10:24:45 GMT

seeker (anon-1421@twwells.com) wrote:

: I was not abused sexually as a child (abused in most other ways though)
: but I was as an adult. It is kind of embarrassing because, unlike so 
: many of you, I was a *consenting adult*. I often had sex with my ex SO
: because I was afraid that if I didn't he might become violent and he
: would certainly become abusive. I guess this is a mild form of rape.
: There was a lot of stuff before that too so I already had a lot of
: baggage. (The abusive relationship was the only one in which I have 
: really tried to be intimate because I was not able to trust enough
: to try in other relationships.)

Howdy, and welcome!  Like you, I was abused as an adult - spousal abuse, I
think they're now calling it.  Sexually, emotionally, etc. :(

You mention that you were a consenting adult, yet you mention in the next
sentence that you were afraid *not* to have sex.  I always thought that for
sex to be consensual, both parties had to agree that that's what they want to
do, of their own free will.  Psychological manipulation or intimidation or
threat of violence, either expressed or implied, add up to rape.

: Since I was an adult I feel I at least share responsibility
: for the abuse - I allowed it to happen by staying with him. The perp 
: was my therapist, which decreases my responsibility, but not completely.

In most relationships I have been in, even the abusive ones, I've noticed that
my partner had something to teach me - even if it was to recognize an abusive
relationship and head out.

: I am left with a major fear of both sex and relationships. I had trouble
: just sharing a tent with a male who has been my friend for years.
: I have nightmares about loving relationships (getting less frequent). 

Um, could you be more explicit?  I'm not sure I understand how a loving
relationship can be a nightmare...

: I have been through therapy and belong to a 12 step program. I have
: been celibate since my SO became my ex (3 years). My ex-therapist said 
: I need to wait until I meet the right person, someone with
: whom I can make a commitment (marriage) and who can set the right
: environment, and then most of the problems will go away. I believe this
: is necessary but worry that it is not sufficient. My ex-therapist is
: a born again Christian and I am worried that she is biased (note: I have
: been out of therapy for over a year). I have worked on the anger and
: a lot of that is gone.

I think your therapist is full of it.  Marriage isn't a "magic bullet" that
cures all your ills - it frequently makes it worse.  Instead of one person
with emotional baggage, you now have two.

: As soon as a relationship gets sexual (as opposed to cuddly) 
: I am out of there emotionally. I mean permanently and immediately. 
: Is this a catch 22 situation? - need to find the right person to 
: work out the problems but the problems prevent me from finding the 
: right person? It is really likely that I haven't found the right
: person but I don't know how to work on relationships when I cannot get
: into one! I am seeing someone now and don't want to screw it up.

You are seeing someone, but not in a relationship?  Hmmm...OK...  <scratching
head>

I don't think it's a process of *finding* the right person so much as *being*
the right person, too.  I don't know what your situation is, but it seems to
me that if I had a problem with sex (and I have had in the past), I would be
wiser to get myself together before entering into another relationship.

My $0.02 - worth what you pay for it. :)

: Please let me know what your experience has been. Thanks.
: (The prospect of dealing with this stuff has me terrified but I am tired
: of carrying the baggage.)

I was married to a person who emotionally, sexually, and psychologically
abused both me and my trust in her and the relationship.  Consequently, I
went through a long period where I was functionally impotent, and so
concentrated on the "emotional" side of the relationship.  I didn't realize
that I was just suppressing the sexual side, and it had to come out sooner
or later.  It did.  One evening, with tears. :(  Before that, I was *terrified*
of what would happen if the relationship got sexual - what would she think of
me if she knew I couldn't "get it up"?  I'm a wimp, a sissy, etc.  It took me
a long, long time before I was comfortable with dealing with my sexuality in a
relationship - and there are times where I'm *not*.  I can give you all the
emotional support in the world, but when it comes to sex, well, sometimes it
just doesn't work. :(

God, what a fucked-up world we live in... :(
--
Ed Carp			erc@apple.com, erc@saturn.upl.com	801/538-0177

"There is nothing to seek and nothing to find.  You're already enlightened, and
all the words in the world won't give you what you already have.  The wise
seeker, therefore, is concerned with one thing only: to become aware of what
he already is, of the True Self within."  -- Zen maxim
-- 
Ed Carp			erc@apple.com, erc@saturn.upl.com	801/538-0177

"There is nothing to seek and nothing to find.  You're already enlightened, and
all the words in the world won't give you what you already have.  The wise