From: William.Hughes@f255.n387.z1.fidonet.org
Newsgroups: alt.music.filk
Subject: New Filk
Date: 5 Nov 92 17:22:00 GMT
X-Sender: newtout 0.02 Nov  5 1992

TO: ALL

FLAME WARNING

Mike.Liebmann@f524.n102.z1.fidonet.org wrote:
: Your filk points out what I've been seeing as a phenomenon which
: seems to be on the increase: certain big-name-filkers who think
: they're better than the rest of us and go play by themselves as a
: group. They'll never learn about the new people who could make a big
: "splash" on filking. It's their loss.
MB: I've already gone on to read Clif's eminently reasonable and
MB: well-written response to you, but I feel compelled to come back and
MB: add my own reaction.
MB: WARNING:  I'll try to keep the heat down, but this *is* a flame.

Right back at'cha.

MB: Mike, would you care to be more specific?  As in, can you *justify*
MB: a nasty phrase like "think they're better than the rest of us"?

Certainly -- your reply to Mike, quoted herein.

MB: Have you actually talked to a "name" filker who's gone off to a
MB: smaller sing, and had them say to you something like "Oh, I don't
MB: want to sit around and listen to all those terrible amateurs."?
MB: (I'll concede that you might be able to answer that one
MB: affirmatively, as I have, on rare occasion, encountered similar
MB: attitudes.)

This attitude became so prevalent at the events I attended in the late
70's and early 80's that I dropped out of filking almost entirely -- and
have not tried to get back into it (my _only_ contact with filking at
this point is this newsgroup). Please note that the "name" performers
are usually very nice, but the "performance" filkers (of which there are
more than "names") have been almost uniformly snobbish. In my
experience. Seems that an amateur, or simply someone who does not care
to perform (remember them? They're called 'listeners', sometimes
'customers') is given extremely short shrift, if they are noticed at
all.

MB: Have you ever tried to enter a smaller sing *that was being held in
MB: a function room or other public area* and been turned away because
MB: you weren't a "name"?

Every single time. It's been my experience that, if you are not known as
a performer (not necessarily a "name"), you may as well go look at the
art show; the "filkers" are not interested in listening to you.

MB: Have you *ever* seen a "name" filker publicly humiliate a newcomer
MB: for singing or playing badly?  I sure haven't.  In short, do you
MB: have any evidence for calling people snobs other than the bare fact
MB: that they choose not to go to the biggest sing?

See above. The one time I stood up to present a 'filk' (a minor rewrite
of an old and little known military song), I was literally booed out of
the room. I found out later that it was because the 'quality' of my
presentation was not up to the snobs' "standards". I have never sung in
public since.

MB: Clif has already listed the many reasons singers may have for
MB: wanting a more intimate setting.  I'll add that yes, it may be that
MB: some choose to gather a few friends together because they want to
MB: spend the night playing and singing with and listening to people
MB: they know are good. And you know what? That's their right.  I've
MB: said this before, and I'll say it as often and as loudly as I think
MB: I need to: PERFORMERS DON'T OWE THE AUDIENCE ANYTHING.

The obvious corollary is that the audience doesn't owe the performer
anything, either.

MB: The fact that someone is a "name" performer does not saddle them
MB: with any obligation as to when, where, and what they perform, or to
MB: hear everyone else.

"Sit down and shut up -- I don't care to listen to you".

MB: It could be said that they owe it to *themselves* to make the best
MB: honest effort they can to play and sing well, but that's about it.

They can do that in front of a mirror at home. Cross-reference
"conceit".

MB: Personally, I spend most of my filking time at the big sing, because
MB: I like hearing newcomers, and I like performing for a large
MB: audience. But I also spend some time at smaller sings, and I even
MB: devote part of my convention nights to going to parties and talking
MB: to friends. Sure, it's great being there when a talented newcomer
MB: first shows up and wows the audience.  Hell, I still have fond
MB: memories of Julia's first filk. And yes, by not being there when
MB: someone good breaks in I do, in some small measure, cheat myself. It
MB: is, as you said, my loss.  But it's *my* choice, and I resent the
MB: judgemental tone of your posting.

Of course, the judgemental tone of _your_ posting is irrelevant, right?

MB: One last thing:  To say that there are "names" and "newcomers" is
MB: simplistic and misleading.  It's a process.  The more someone
MB: practices, and performs well, and is heard performing well, the
MB: bigger a "name" they become. It will happen regardless of whether
MB: the current "names" hear them or not. Fame is not something awarded
MB: from on high. If you're good, you'll get noticed.

And those of us who, for whatever reason, don't care to become
"performers", but would rather just sing with friends are told not to
bother -- if you don't "perform", shut up.

MB: (Side note:  It has far less to do with some nebulous thing called
MB: "talent" than it does with, in increasing order of importance,
MB: training, dedication, practice, practice, and practice.  I've been
MB: giving beginning voice and performance seminars at cons for years --
MB: in all arrogance, I would say that I've done as much as anyone in
MB: filk to encourage newcomers -- and the one thing I stress more than
MB: anything else is the need to practice.

"If you want to participate, you _must_ perform, and you must do so TO
MY STANDARDS."

MB: To put it in a personal perspective, at the moment I'm pretty good.
MB: I'll never have any hope of being great until and unless I do what
MB: the best do, and devote at least a couple of hours per day to my
MB: writing and performing.  At the moment, my life outside of fandom is
MB: very busy, so I'm comfortable at my current level. Again, my
MB: choice.)

Just as it is my choice to avoid those who I feel are so conceited and
self-important that they have forgotten what real people are. Good bye.


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