HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: falknemj@cnsvax.uwec.edu
Newsgroups: alt.politics.perot,talk.politics.misc
Subject: Re: why perot?
Date: 24 Sep 92 23:56:49 -0600
Organization: University of Wisconsin Eau Claire

In article <1686CB3E1.JHARTLEY@cmsa.gmr.com>, JHARTLEY@cmsa.gmr.com writes:
> In article <1992Sep24.1305.388@channel1>
> lois.laulicht@channel1.com (lois laulicht) writes:
>>I don't believe that Ross Perot has instant answers for any of us.
>>The "Why Perot?" speaks to a sense of a man who will go the distance
> hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha=> ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
> 
>        You are so naive and blind to facts that I doubt that you even
> understand Perot at all.  Care to explain how a man "who will go the
> distance" wimpered away from the presidential race while getting
> people to make public fools of themselves by supporting him so whole-
> heartedly?

  #1  Maybe he is a thinker, who, seeing that the third candidate was
benefitting from all the mudslinging between the other two, decided to become
that third candidate by completely removing himself for a while.

  #2  If these people are making such fools of themselves, why have they
continued to work to get him on the ballot in ALL 50 states, and why has Perot
funded this movement??

  He'd more "go the distance" if he were to win, but I think he may have also
seen some support and interest in his platform.  YES HE HAS A PLATFORM!!

>  I've seen him work with GM for years and he failed the same
> way - when the going got tough, and people wouldn't knuckle under to him
> just because of his money and clout, he vanished.  Same with politics.

  I can remember several politicians that did that.  In that respect, he may
not be unlike anyone else involved.

> He's good with one-line insults.

  So is Bush, and we've seen that is all he is good for.

>  He loves to get adulation. 

  So is any politician.

> He is
> more like a charismatic evangelist than a president.  And you, my friend,
> are blind to it.

  No, you, my friend, are blind to the true problems that face this country. 
We don't need King George I for President.  I'd prefer Clinton in a 2-way, but
that si only to vote AGAINST Bush.  I've read some of the book, and I know it
would be painful, but Perot is a candidate I can vote FOR.

>  Wake up.  This man cares nothing about you or any
> other of his supporters.  He doesn't care about America.  He cares about
> Ross and making sure that Ross' image is one of the valiant, courageous,
> underdog.  Odd for a billionaire, isn't it.  But you swallowed it.

  And you swallowed the hook that will continue the Republocrats monopoly of
power.  You could say the same thing about many of the politicians today.
 
>>  Maybe we'll be real lucky
>>and he'll come back into the race.
> 
>        No-one ever went broke underestimating the intelligence of the
> American public.

  I think it'd be stupid to elect Bush, but I think in a 2-way, he'll try to
weasle into it.  I still don't think he'll win 10 states, even in a 2-way.

						Mike Falkner

Newsgroups: alt.politics.perot,alt.politics.elections,talk.politics.misc
From: mpye@netcom.com (Michael Pye)
Subject: Re: Who the heck is Jim Stockton?
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services  (408 241-9760 guest) 
Date: Tue, 6 Oct 1992 08:33:19 GMT

That pesky James guy writes:

>Hi-Ho,

>I've heard a little about Vice Admiral Jim Stockton, USN (retired), former  
>POW, etc.  What's he been doing since he retired from the military?  Just  
>writing books, or was he consulting, or what?  I can't seem to find out.

>Tanks,

>semaj

>--
>James Scott                                        
>jscott@cleese.next.nd.edu
>University of Notre Dame                NeXTMail Appreciated
>NeXT, Inc. Campus Consultant
>(219)283-1599				AUDIX: x5429
>Steve Jobs on son Reed:  "We had our own little custom app."
>		(NeXTWORLD magazine, Fall 1992)

Get ahold of the Sunday (10/4) issue of the Los Angeles Times.  The first
section has a lengthy article on the next Vice President of the United
From: JHARTLEY@cmsa.gmr.com
Newsgroups: alt.politics.perot
Subject: Perot's spine
Date: 28 Sep 92 19:33:34 GMT
Organization: GM Research Labs

Ever wonder why Perot never subjects himself to the scrutiny of the press?
I know all you brainwashed Perot supporters will say "he doesn't play by
those rules - those are the rules of the old status quo" etc.  But if
a man cannot stand up to the scrutiny of a free press, his ideas aren't
worth the paper they are printed on.  Perot was a paranoid when at GM (EDS)
and he is a paranoid now.  Some of his ideas are good at first blush but
fall apart under scrutiny.  He is too chicken to face up to the refinement
that results when his ideas must be defended against legitimate questions.

I will bet you that you'll never see him in a debate, unless he can use it
only as a forum to attack Bush.  Clinton would eat him alive in a debate,
even though they would both be tripping over each other to attack Bush.
If you had seen the way he blustered at GM and then melted away when the
GM leaders didn't buckle, you'd understand how most of us who've seen this
pitiful act before feel about the little man.  Billionaires have little
regard for accomplishment through resolution, debate, compromise, or
discussion.  He wants it his way.  You people (oops, sorry) I mean his
supporters don't understand this and never will.  It would be funny if it
didn't document the inability of the American public to distinguish their
own wishes from the actual record of their candidate.

Send flames to seenit.b4 and never.again.
Newsgroups: alt.politics.perot,alt.politics.us.constitution
From: rocko@ireland.ssc.gov (Rick O'Leary)
Subject: Re: Perot: Getting it done?
Organization: 8-Track Museum of Technology
Distribution: usa
Date: Tue, 29 Sep 1992 17:55:11 GMT

In article <1992Sep29.161044.10886@news.columbia.edu>, rl24@cunixa.cc.columbia.edu (Robert Lamoureux) writes:
|> Just a question for Perot supporters, and an honest one, not at all
|> intended as a flame:
|> 
|> How can Ross Perot get anything accomplished, exactly, given the
|> fact that neither political party is willing to support his agenda,
|> and the US Senate and House of Representatives will still consist
|> entirely of Democrats and Republicans?  Without *any* kind of 
|> support in Congress for a large portion of his ideas, wouldn't
|> we just be setting ourselves up for four more years of logjam in
|> Washington (i.e. President Perot proposes something to Congress,
|> Congress shoots it down, nothing substantial gets accomplished, and
|> nothing at all changes)?
|> 
|> Just wondering,
|> 
|> Rob L.
|> 
|> 

Rob,
 Currently, when a Rep. President requests something from the House of
Representatives, the Rep. leadership waves the banner and collects the
other Republicans and they try to get Dem. support for the Republican
request.

 Bad practice! If/when Ross gets in the House and Senate will be in a
possition to look at propossals as NON-PARTY_SIN. OH NO !!!!!

HOW WILL THEY KNOW WHAT TO VOTE FOR ???

UNCLE TEDDY WON'T KNOW WHO TO VOTE FOR.

JACK KEMP (NICE AS HE IS) MIGHT HAVE TO AS FOR SUPPORT FOR THE CONTENCE
OF A BILL NOT IT'S AUTHOR.

Just a thought,

Rocko
Newsgroups: alt.politics.perot,alt.fan.dan-quayle
From: rod@unislc.uucp (Robert Despain)
Subject: Re: Perot's Idle Time
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1 PL6]
Organization: Unisys Corporation SLC
Date: Fri, 2 Oct 1992 02:20:32 GMT

cdpert01@ulkyvx.louisville.edu wrote:
: 
:      Maybe it's just me, but don't you think old Ross really needs
: to find himself a hobby?  Golf, tennis, biking -- anything but
: playing these games with the Presidential election.    

Were he strongly committed enough to golf, he'd make a perfect
candidate for Vice President (see the Marilyn Quayle quote in the
semi-FAQ quote posting in alt.fan.dan-quayle).
-- 
R.O. Despain                  |
Mature Products Group         |  Internet: rod@unislc.slc.unisys.com
(801) 594-4633                |      UUCP: ...!{sun, uunet}!unislc!rod
From: cdpert01@ulkyvx.louisville.edu
Newsgroups: alt.politics.perot
Subject: Perot's Idle Time
Date: 28 Sep 92 20:09:32 GMT
Organization: University of Louisville


     Maybe it's just me, but don't you think old Ross really needs
to find himself a hobby?  Golf, tennis, biking -- anything but
playing these games with the Presidential election.    
Newsgroups: alt.politics.perot
From: emmett@kpc.com (Emmett Kilgariff)
Subject: Re: bla,bla,bla...
Organization: Kubota Pacific Computer Corporation, Santa Clara, CA
Date: Fri, 2 Oct 1992 16:41:35 GMT

In article <1992Oct1.233333.28366@leland.Stanford.EDU> motta@leland.Stanford.EDU (Nazare Motta) writes:
>
>Hey Mike, I'm REALLY impressed with your maturity...
>How tall are you? Got a Napoleon complex??????

Is anybody offended by this obviously  bigoted remark to height-challenged 
	people? :-) 

Newsgroups: alt.politics.perot,alt.politics.elections,talk.politics.misc
From: korman@seas.gwu.edu (John Korman)
Subject: Re: 1-800-925-1300
Keywords: Ditto
Organization: George Washington University
Date: Thu, 1 Oct 1992 16:33:36 GMT

In article <1992Sep30.193330.3479@wuecl.wustl.edu> gl1@cec1.wustl.edu (Greg Lyon) writes:
>
>   Thank you for exactly making my point... Perot doesn't want to hear anything
>bad about himself.  I wonder what will happen if he by some terrible twist of
>fate gets elected and then gets nothing accomplished.  I can see two 
>possibilities... 1) He'll resign or
>		 2) He'll impose censorship on the media to prevent bad
                    ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
> 			things from being said about him.

Just being the devil's advocate. How can a president who cannot get anything
accomplished (i.e., such mundane things as preparing budgets, etc.) be 
capable of changing the first amendment???

Just curious,

John
From: detrolio@andromeda.rutgers.edu (David De Trolio)
Newsgroups: alt.politics.perot
Subject: Bob Dornan on Bill Clinton - Important
Date: 4 Oct 92 05:07:50 GMT
Organization: Rutgers Univ., New Brunswick, N.J.


     Rep. Bob Dornan has been speaking on C-Span in the House
live concerning Bill Clinton and his anti-war, anti-Vietnam
protests during his college days.

    Most specificly, in 1970, Bill Clinton was invited to go
to Moscow to be part of the so called "Peace Movement".  During
this time period, an American in the former Soviet Union had to
be invited by the Communist govt., and they had to have prior
knowledge or provide instruction on where he may travel along
with what he may say while in the former Soviet Union.

     This is the same Bill Clinton who, while at Oxford, sought
information on either obtaining dual citizenship or obtaining
British citizenship.

     Is this the individual the American people should send to
The White House?

     Rep. Bob Dornan should be addressing the house again this
weekend.  I urge those concerned about what I have briefly outlined
here to call:

UNITED STATES HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES
WASHINGTON, D.C. 20515

(202) 224-3121

     Your can either ask for Rep. Dornan's office or staff, or attempt
to reach your own.  This information must be presented to the American
public, and the events which occurred there must be researched and
addressed by Bill Clinton.


-- 
---------------------------------
     David De Trolio
---------------------------------
(detrolio@andromeda.rutgers.edu)
Newsgroups: alt.politics.perot
From: Glenn Stauffer <stauffer@cc.swarthmore.edu>
Subject: Re: What bothers me about Perot...
X-Xxmessage-Id: <A6EE55B9DC024364@mac1.termigator.swarthmore.edu>
X-Xxdate: Tue, 29 Sep 92 23:49:29 GMT
Organization: Swarthmore College Computing Center
X-Useragent: Nuntius v1.1.1d11
Date: Tue, 29 Sep 1992 22:50:07 GMT

In article <92273.143255SML108@psuvm.psu.edu> , SML108@psuvm.psu.edu
writes:
>candidates differ the most in how they approach the deficit.  Perot
wants an
>all out attack to reduce it while Clinton wants to expand the economy
and allow
>this expanded economy to attack it more effectively.

Hmmm...  Didn't I here this before?  Something about cutting taxes which
leads 
to economic expansion which leads to a "revenue neutral" situation or
even to 
a growth in government revenues.  Well, it didn't work for most of the
past 
twelve years - Clinton better have some real magic to spur the economy
enough 
to pay for the ever growing government.  I've heard economic predictions
of 10 
more years of slow growth - anyone want to guess where the deficit/debt
will 
be in 2002?
From: bu008@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Brandon D. Ray)
Newsgroups: alt.politics.perot
Subject: Re: 1-800-BEND-OVER
Date: 30 Sep 1992 07:52:20 GMT
Organization: Case Western Reserve University, Cleveland, Ohio (USA)
NNTP-Posting-Host: hela.ins.cwru.edu


Article #2965 (2988 is last):
>Newsgroups: alt.politics.perot
From: eab@geneab.b20.ingr.com (Ed Baggott)
Subject: Re: 1-800-BEND-OVER
Reply-To: eab@geneab.b20.ingr.com
Date: Tue Sep 29 12:52:40 1992

I just called Perot's 1-800 number to tell him not to run,
and guess what?  I got a recording saying my call will be added to
the talley of those requesting that he run, and "Thank you for your
support!".  Has this happened to anybody else?

I think that's a pretty deceitful way to treat a caller.  No doubt
this is an indication of how his "electronic town meetings" will
be conducted.
-----------------------------

Actually, you are the one being deceitful.  Perot stated, clearly
and unambiguously, that this line was set up for people to call in
and *support* him in deciding to run.  *Only* those people were
invited to call.  You decided to try to use the line for some other
purpose, and you got burned.  You deserve exactly what happened to you.

Signed,

A Perot Opponent

(No, it is not a typo...)
Xref: sparky alt.politics.perot:1631 alt.politics.elections:14426 talk.politics.misc:48207
From: JHARTLEY@cmsa.gmr.com
Newsgroups: alt.politics.perot,alt.politics.elections,talk.politics.misc
Subject: Re: Media Appearances
Date: 28 Sep 92 16:58:30 GMT
Followup-To: alt.politics.perot
Organization: GM Research Labs

In article <2q!p4q_.mpye@netcom.com>
mpye@netcom.com (Michael Pye) writes:
>Perot will be on the Today Show (the first hour) both Monday 9/28 and
>Tuesday 9/29.  He'll also be on Larry King Live Monday 9/28.

Boy!  Talk about subjecting yourself to the scrutiny of the press!!
I hope that Katie will take it easy on him.  "Ross, do you have any
recipes that our viewers might enjoy?"  "Ross, what did you think
of the Murphy Brown episode?"

When will Ross be on Firing Line, Meet the Press, or some show that has
political questions?
From: aschaffe@holodeck.csd.sgi.com (Allan Schaffer)
Newsgroups: alt.politics.perot
Subject: Re: 1-800-925-1300
Keywords: Ditto
Date: 30 Sep 92 19:34:21 GMT
Organization: Silicon Graphics, Inc., Mountain View, CA
NNTP-Posting-Host: holodeck.csd.sgi.com

dougn@convex.com (Douglas Nieb) said..
>
>As was clearly stated several times during the Larry King show, only people
>who wanted to SUPPORT him were told to call.  Those who didn't want to 
>support him should have listened and not called the number.

This is true.  However, many newspapers have just been giving out the
800 number with no explanation (yesterday's SF Examiner, for example).

Allan
-- 
----
Allan Schaffer                                       Notice 
aschaffe@holodeck.csd.sgi.com       Due to budgetary constraints the light at 
aschaffe@netcom.com                 the end of the tunnel is being turned off.
From: tank@anchovy.cps.msu.edu (Jason P Tank)
Newsgroups: alt.politics.perot
Subject: Perot: An American Hero
Keywords: Ross Perot is a positive force in the US.  Because of him, the American
Date: 28 Sep 92 18:53:19 GMT
Organization: Dept. of Computer Science, Michigan State University

people are a key interest group in American politics.  Regardless of your
opinion  of the man, he has done only good for this country.  Because of this,
I feel that he is the only choice on Election Day.  His plan may be tough, but does anyone
realize that the national debt is causing us to pay 200 billion dollars a year in
interest? This equals the amount we spend on education in this country. Please
wake up. don't fall asleep like the last generation. WE CANNOT IGNORE THE DEBT
ANY LONGER.
	Today, Ross Perot and the fifty state coordinators are doing something
that has never been done in Presidential politics.  The two major parties are
coming to the American people and trying to plead their case.  They will  listen
to the two delegations, but I fear that they will not be satisfied. Clinton's
plan falls far short of what is needed. In fact, his deficit reduction plan is
based solely on growth in the economy. We all know that the economy is hard to
predict, therefore should not be counted on to promise the people of deficit
reductions.  Regardless of the wishfull thinking on the part of Clinton, his
numbers just don't add up. 
	George Bush's plan is still vague and the last four years he has added 1
trillion dollars on his watch. I understand that this is not all his fault, but
he rode along with this out of control spending. Therefore, his credibility on
debt reduction is gone.
	Ross Perot's plan adresses the hard choices. We have to cap entitlement
growth. Rich senior citizens need to sacrifice for their grandchildrens' futures.
His plan may not be good for the short term, but we must look to the long term
gains. We have to remain focused on what is good for this country. I don't think
Ross Perot has all of the answers, and I don't think he even wants to be
President, but I would urge him to run and I would most definately vote for him.
	
	jason Tank
	
Xref: sparky alt.politics.perot:1719 alt.politics.clinton:7942 alt.politics.bush:7305
From: rcs62697@zach.fit.edu (Ian Koss /ADVISOR Baggs)
Newsgroups: alt.politics.perot,alt.politics.clinton,alt.politics.bush
Subject: Re: Mud Slinging
Date: 30 Sep 92 19:25:02 GMT
Followup-To: alt.politics.perot
Organization: Florida Institute of Technology, Melbourne USA

I have a horrible problem for myself and a great opportunity for
someone out there...

I'm the editor of a music magazine in the Central Florida area, and
we are featuring politics in our OCtober issue, which is due to hit the
streets this Friday. Here's the problem: I had planned four articles,
a pro and con on Clinton and Bush, and on this late date, I have been
unable to collect the con-Bush article.

What I'd like to see is some shining knight swoop down from one of
these newsgroups and submit 1200-1500 words on why you should not
vote for Bush (as opposed to why you should vote for Clinton). In
exchange, I can offer a lifetime subscription to Ink Nineteen; I
wish the magazine were at the point where we could pay cash for 
articles, but we're not.

I'd need the article by 11 am EST, U.S., Thursday. I'd like people
who are interested in writing this to contact me by this evening.
Your article will be read by what we calculate to be 30,000 Floridians;
you can make a difference.

Reading this back, I realize that it is sort of jumbled, but I don't
really have time to rearrange this. Any questions, please contact me.
Thank you.


Ian Koss,
Editor, Ink Nineteen

rcs62697@zach.fit.edu
C
Newsgroups: alt.politics.perot
From: breinhar@access.digex.com (Robert B. Reinhardt)
Subject: Re: Re-Entry??
Organization: Express Access Online Communications, Greenbelt, Maryland USA
Date: Tue, 29 Sep 1992 22:55:51 GMT

In article <dt_p4_b.mpye@netcom.com> mpye@netcom.com (Michael Pye) writes:
>si24+@andrew.cmu.edu (Srinivas Inguva) writes:
>
>>I've been hearing in the news about the possibility of Perot's re-entry
>>into the race... being a math type person, I normally don't delve too
>>deeply into the realm of politix, but this interested me and I was
>>wondering what people who have been following the ups and downs of this
>>edition of ye quadrennial slugfest think of it.. do you think he has a
>>reasonable chance of election anymore? didn't some of the states where
>>he got on the ballot take his name off?
>>   Whatever..hope to get some input...
>>        
>>Later..
>
>No - Perot will be on the ballot in all 50 states.  He has an excellent
>chance of being elected.  The other two major parties are playing right
>into this.  The really funny thing is, you can tell them exactly what 
>they're doing wrong and they'll ignore you.  You can tell them how to 
>make Perot go away and they won't listen.  It's even kinda sad....
>
>

Sad in one way, self-fulfilling in another.
Rather heartwarming actually.
From: Richard.Mathews@West.Sun.COM (Richard M. Mathews)
Newsgroups: alt.politics.perot
Subject: Re: bend over...
Date: 30 Sep 92 23:36:22 GMT
Organization: Sunsoft Inc., Los Angeles, CA.
NNTP-Posting-Host: astro
Originator: richard@astro.West.Sun.COM

<SPW103@psuvm.psu.edu> writes:
>So, if Perot were to garner say, 25% of the electoral
>representatives, he could simply ask those Electorates (or whatever you would
>call them) to vote for Clinton or Bush

Most states have laws requiring electors to vote for the person who won
the state.  Perot could direct his electors to change their votes, but
it is not clear that they could legally do so.  On the other hand, it is
quite possible that these state laws violate the U.S. Constitution (which
says the states *appoint* the electors and implies that the electors then
make the decision), but this has never been tested in court.

     Richard M. Mathews			Lietuva laisva = Free Lithuania
					Brivu Latviju  = Free Latvia
Richard.Mathews@West.Sun.COM		Eesti vabaks   = Free Estonia
					        WE  DID  IT!!!
Newsgroups: alt.politics.perot
From: jeffh@pisces.sps.mot.com (Jeff Heilner)
Subject: Re: Perot's V. P. Candidate
Organization: SPS
Date: Thu, 1 Oct 1992 23:26:09 GMT

In article <16873B5C9.JHARTLEY@cmsa.gmr.com> JHARTLEY@cmsa.gmr.com quotes  
himself:
> >Don't know many of the details but a newscast just announced that Ross'
> >running mate would be someone named Benjamin Dover.  No more details
> >except that Ross said "I am happy to announce my running mate,
> >Ben Dover, and we will give the volunteers exactly what they want."
> 
> I heard this too.  Ross said something about this being a "bottoms up"
> party or campaign.  I say we rename our movement The Bottoms Up  
Movement.
> Our logo could be a photograph of a group of citizens perched with their
> bottoms up in the air, with Ross behind them all the way.
> 
>                        VOTE FOR ROSS PEROT AND
>                           BEN DOVER IN '92
> 
> HURRAY  HURRAY  HUZZAH  HUZZAH  HURRAY  HURRAY  HUZZAH  HUZZAH  BOTTUMS  
UP


Isn't the purpose of the political newsgroups to foster in 
intelligent discussion about politics???

Do the quoted posts above serve any purpose AT ALL, besides making
the poster look like a fool?

And to think HE accused ME of "ad hominem"....it is to laugh!


--
---------------------------------------------------
Jeff Heilner
Motorola SPS - Tempe, AZ 
Email: jeffh@pisces.sps.mot.com (NeXT)
From: bobk@gibdo.engr.washington.edu (Bob)
Newsgroups: alt.politics.perot
Subject: Re: bend over...
Date: 26 Sep 92 09:54:09 GMT
Organization: University of Washington

de5@ORNL.GOV (Dave Sill) writes:
| The in's and out's of Perot's candidacy will be nothing compared to the
| reaming out the country will get if people take him seriously.
| 
| Please, people, don't vote for Perot unless he guarantees not to transfer any
| electoral votes he receives to either Clinton or Bush.  If he puts on a good
| show between now and Nov. 3, he could well have enough electoral votes in his
| pocket to select either Bush or Clinton.  Don't give him the power to decide
| this election.

  That's what we want.  If Perot doesn't win, we want him to at least have
  enough power to straighten those yo-yos out a little bit.  When he suspended
  the campaign, he said he would resume if the Democrats and Republicans fail
  to address the real problems of the country.  They continued to give us the
  same old run-around, so it looks like Perot will be back.

  It would be at least a partial victory for Perot to get enough power to
  get one of the candidates to wake-up and adopt some of his policies.
  ==

  Bob
Newsgroups: alt.politics.perot