HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: MEDELMA@cms.cc.wayne.edu (Michael Edelman)
Subject: Re: reliability of wireless bike computers?
Organization: Wayne State University, C&IT
Date: Thu, 3 Sep 1992 12:21:23 GMT

In article <1992Sep3.021513.11656@ecsvax.uncecs.edu>
mvolo@ecsvax.uncecs.edu (Michael R. Volow) writes:
 
>
>
>Title says it all. What has been our experience with the reliability
>of wireless bike computers? Any brands better than others? Thanks.
>--
>Michael Volow, Psychiatry, Durham VA Med Center, Durham NC 27712
>919 286 0411 Ext 6933               mvolo@uncecs.edu
 
I have the old model Vetta, now on its third bike. Pluses: Never have to
worry about cables ripping off, easy to put on bikes with shock forks,
lots of data visible at once. Minuses: Seems to miscount more often than
the Cicyclomaster I use on my road bikes now, you need to replace two
batteries instead of one (though both are still doing well after two years!)
and both sender and computer are kind of large and clunky.
 
My Vetta started on my old road bike, went to a different one a year and a
half ago, and onto my cross bike this year, as I wanter to be able to
switch one computer between two road bikes and couldn't buy a new sender for
the Vetta. If you can still get the old model cheap, I'd say it's a good deal.
The new ones are around $50, even at a discount, which is too much for my
cheap sensibilities when I can get a Ciclomaster, of which I'm growing very
fond, for $35.
         --mike
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.tech
From: kmb@controls.ccd.harris.com (Kurt Brunton)
Subject: Re: 8 speed freewheels for shimano 600 STI
Originator: kmb@rs2
Organization: Harris Controls
Date: Wed, 2 Sep 1992 12:41:31 GMT



	Why bother spending more money for an 8-speed set-up for your spare
wheel. I've been using a 7-speed 105 freehub setup with my 600 STI shifters with
no problem.  So I would assume Dura Ace would work too.  Of course, I scrapped
the hyper glide chain and replaced it with a Sedis chain.  I initially set up the
bike with the 8-speed, but because of flats I've been using the 7-speed, and I
didn't even have to adjust the derailleur when I put the 7-speed on.

Kurt 'Damn I've got another flat' Brunton
From: skon@gecko.cis.ohio-state.edu (james paul skon)
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.tech
Subject: Re: Braze-on Question (threaded inserts)
Date: 3 Sep 92 15:24:11 GMT
Organization: The Ohio State University Dept. of Computer and Info. Science

>It's no problem at all to drill holes down there.  How do you think Klein,  
>Cannondale, Raleigh, etc get the threaded holes in their bikes?  The use  
>Riv-nuts or Nut-serts.

What are some good sources for "Riv-nuts or Nut-serts"?

Jim
skon@cis.ohio-state.edu
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.tech
From: MEDELMA@cms.cc.wayne.edu (Michael Edelman)
Subject: Re: seating tires
Organization: Wayne State University, C&IT
Date: Mon, 31 Aug 1992 12:07:45 GMT

In article <-bty5-_@rpi.edu>
shannt@vccnw01.its.rpi.edu (Thomas G. Shannon) writes:
 
>
>Hi there,
>
>I have a problem.  I recently had the joyous opportunity to replace my front tire(old one died), and I attempted to install a nifty-neat-o kevlar
bead
>tire(I believe made by specialized).  I stuggled valiantly for what seemed like hours (15 min.) to
> put it on and after much sweating (it was hot) I got it on.  To make a boring story short does anyone have any clever trick to seat the bead evenly;
>mine is currently bulging, and if I inflate it too much it hops off the rim.
>
>Thanks,
>
>Pat Shannon
>
First, using tire levers you should be able to mount the tire in about a
minute. The only way I can imagine as much time as you descibed would be
using hands alone- not an easy task!
 
Second: If the tire is bulging, it's not seated. Put about 20-30 psi in
the tire and go around the peripehery of the rim, squeezing the tire and
inspecting to make sure the tube is not creeping out under the bead. Where
it does creep, squeezing the tire (pinching the sidewalls together) should
pull the tire away from the bead and cause the tube to pop under the tire
where it belongs.
          --mike
From: jackson@ponder.csci.unt.edu (Bruce Jackson)
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.tech
Subject: Re: Spoke breakage
Date: 4 Sep 92 19:08:14 GMT
Article-I.D.: mercury.1992Sep4.190814.21614
Organization: University of North Texas, Denton

In article <1992Sep4.121450.1@utxvms.cc.utexas.edu> ccfa001@utxvms.cc.utexas.edu writes:

>Over the last two months, I've had two spokes break at the angled area where
>the spoke connects to the hub flange.  The bike is about 1.5 years old and
>has been used primarily for commuting (a DB Apex).  Could this be a problem
>with the DX hub, or is it typical for gobs of spokes to wear out at the 
>same time?  The rim seems to be in good shape (rear wheel).  If the spokes
>are indeed on their last legs, would it be worth it to replace all of them,
>or should I also replace hub and/or rim?  I don't expect everyone to agree
>as to solutions, but perhaps others have had experience with a sudden
>plethora of spoke breakage.

It sounds like it is time for a rebuild.  The spokes that come on most
bikes are only medium quality at best.  Rebuild the wheel with all
new high quality double butted spokes.  If the rim is in good shape
you wish to reuse it but since you are rebuilding the wheel it is a
good time to try out something new.  It is just as much bother to
rebuild with your old rim as to build with a new rim.

I've noted that when a wheel starts to break spokes that more spokes
will break soon.  With good spokes I usually don't start breaking
spokes until I have at least 10,000 miles on a rear wheel unless the
wheel has been crashed.  Of course the stronger the rim the longer
the spokes will last also since the load will be distributed among
more spokes (see Jobst's book for more info).  Mountain bike rims
should go damn near forever between broken spokes unless you really
thrash the bike.

ride with the wind...

Bruce  -  jackson@cs.unt.edu
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.tech
From: harry@cv.hp.com (Harry Phinney)
Subject: Re: Summ. of Frame Materials for Review
Organization: Hewlett-Packard Company, Corvallis, Oregon USA
X-Newsreader: Tin 1.1 PL4
Date: Mon, 31 Aug 1992 20:31:37 GMT

tomk@netcom.com (Thomas H. Kunich) writes:
: I _have_ owned two bikes of almost identical geometries.

How close were their geometries?

: The 531 bike, which I still have is so ridgid that it will knock
: your teeth out if you don't use compliant tires. 

This is interesting.  In this part of the country the nervex-lugged 531
Peugeot PX-10 bikes were regarded as flexi-flyers.  They were built from
light gauge 531 which was generally 1 gauge number lighter than Columbus
SL.

: There is no
: give in the frame at all except for some stay flex on large
: bumps.

Which stays flex on the large bumps, and how do you know they flex?  The
rear "triangle" is pretty stiff vertically regardless of tubing
characteristics.

: All of this theory sounds pretty good but I have this nagging
: feeling that engineers don't design better alloys for fun.

If you can cite one, just one, reference showing significant stiffness
differences between any two steel alloys, I'll listen.  The alloys are
developed for reasons other than stiffness.  The more expensive tubing
generally has a higher yield stress and higher ultimate tensile stress.
This means that the manufacturer can use thinner sections and still have
sufficient strength, fatigue resistance, and resistance to dents.  This
allows any number of interesting variations such as larger diameters,
strange shapes, ridges (aka rifling), etc.  Some of these changes can
indeed increase the stiffness of the bike.  The alloys themselves,
however, are the same stiffness and the same density.  I'll offer a
quote from a text book I have from one of those silly classes I took
those many years ago:

Clark And Varney 
_Physical_Metallurgy_ 
D.  Van Nostrand, 1962 ISBN: 0-442-01570-4 

Page 198 

"Sometimes stiffness of a part is an important consideration.  For this
requirement, alloy steels do not offer any advantages over the plain
carbon steels.  Stiffness is determined by the modulus of elasticity or
the relationship between the stress and the strain within the elastic
limit.  An alloy steel may have a higher elastic limit than a plain
carbon steel, but the modulus of elasticity will be the same, regardless
of heat treatment.  The solutions to stiffness problems, when steel is
demanded, is one of design and not metallurgy."

: I'm quite sure that people who have ridden
: Cromor frames and then their identical SL brethren can tell
: you that they can tell the difference. Is this brainwashing?

Is this rec.audio?  Someone who acquires a new frame expects it to ride
better.  This is very similar to the rider who convinces themselves that
their bike is "whipped", and has gotten more flexible over time.  In
reality, the bike has not changed stiffness, but rather the rider's
perception of the bike has changed.

Harry Phinney   harry@hp-pcd.cv.hp.com
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.tech
From: chiggs@kean.ucs.mun.ca
Subject: Bike parts...and wheelchairs
Organization: Memorial University. St.John's Nfld, Canada
Date: Fri, 4 Sep 1992 00:44:08 GMT

I am currently working on a racing wheelchair project - and like
most others in the field I'm using mostly bike components. The BIG
differences between bikes and wheelchairs (in the areas I'm looking
at) are that:
	(a) Wheels are cambered - therefore loading is at an
	angle to the spokes/bearings etc.
	(b) Races are held on SOFT surfaces
If anyone has any information/ideas/speculations/references that
relate to these issues I'd be grateful for the help.

	Colin Higgs
	Memorial University of Newfoundland
	St. John's
	Newfoundland
	Canada

Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.tech
From: praetzel@marconi.uwaterloo.ca (Eric Praetzel)
Subject: Re: MTB:  How to not trash the rear derailleur?
Organization: University of Waterloo
Date: Tue, 1 Sep 1992 16:31:50 GMT

In article <87570@netnews.upenn.edu> vinson@shiva.seas.upenn.edu (Jack Vinson) writes:
>
>I seem to be pretty good a trashing rear derailleurs on my MTB.  As of
  Can you be more specific?  Are you shifting into the spokes?  What is
causing the derailleur to die?

>money I am continually sinking into this thing.  I've also gone through
>several freewheels - by the way I am running Shimano derailleurs with a
>Suntour freewheel, but this may change when I replace my rear wheel.
  How?  Were you breaking teeth off?  This tends to happen on cheap freewheels
that are put thru a lot of mud, high torque and indecisive shifting.

>So, does anyone have experience in NOT trashing derailleurs?
  Yea on my road bike.  My MTB is a black hole for money on a per km basis
compared to riding on the road.  If you ride hardpack (no mud) and avoid all
object that have a high density (trees, rocks ..) then a MTB can last well if
its cleaned every now and then.  Otherwise the sand will take appart every
bit of the drivetrain.
  - Eric
From: choy@skorpio.usask.ca (I am a terminator.)
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.tech
Subject: Re: Sore thumb and Rapidfire Shifters
Date: 2 Sep 92 21:01:17 GMT
Distribution: rec
Organization: University of Saskatchewan, Saskatoon, Canada

In article <08281992.715011926@otto>, newman@otto.ycc.yale.edu (Andrew Newman) writes:
|> Greetings,
|> 
|> It's a muscle ache and seems to be related
|> to reaching forward to press the downshift button on the rapidfire
|> shifters.  The shifters are Deore XT's with the upshift button
|> wrapped around the front of the handlebar.

Can you rotate the shifter on the handlebar?

HC
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.tech
From: iba@kronos.arc.nasa.gov (Wayne Iba)
Subject: Re: Specialized Self-sealing tube problem
Organization: NASA/ARC Information Sciences Division
Date: Thu, 3 Sep 1992 22:42:49 GMT

[product review of Specialized self-sealing tubes]

I'm not actually sure of the charters anymore, but shouldn't this have
been posted in rec.bicycles.marketplace?  If not, then it should have
been in .misc.  I would venture that it is inappropriate for .tech.

--wayne 

Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.tech
From: steinman@is.morgan.com (Jan Steinman)
Subject: Re: do dishless wheels ride differently?
Organization: Morgan Stanley & Company
Distribution: na
Date: Tue, 25 Aug 1992 18:00:03 GMT

In article <71629@apple.Apple.COM> ehouse@Apple.COM (Eric House) writes:

   ...Am I imagining things, or is it possible that having nearly
   identical tension in the spokes on both sides of a wheel would make
   it behave differently from a wheel with substantially
   higher-tensioned spokes on one side -- to a degree I could detect?

I'm sure it would make a difference. I can notice a difference on our
Jack Taylor tandem between a wheel with a disk brake (no dish) and one
without.

I've built heavy touring wheels with 45 spokes -- each freewheel-side
pulling spoke is doubled. I also thought this wheel rode "smoother".
It was still dished, but individual freewheel-side spokes have less
tension then they do on a 36, since there are 50% more of them.
"Plucking" them produces tones that are fairly close to the tones
produced by "plucking" the spokes opposite the freewheel.

My analysis: when hitting a bump on an unequally tensioned wheel, the
"soft" side (opposite the freewheel) is free to absorb the bump more,
causing the that side of the axle to drop slightly, causing the whole
bike to tip slightly to the left.
--
: : Jan Steinman	   steinman@is.morgan.com		 Bytesmiths : :
: : 2002 Parkside Court				   West Linn, OR 97068-2767 : :
: : 503/657-7703					       212/956-8722 : :
From: gregory@flood.zso.dec.com (Peter Gregory)
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.tech
Subject: Re: Cycling Gives Me A Neck Ache -- Recommenda
Date: 25 Aug 92 17:59:38 GMT
Organization: Digital Equipment Corporation - DECwest Engineering

In article <l9knknINNfks@jethro.Corp.Sun.COM> tmhoff@oogoody.Corp.Sun.COM writes:
>>**************
>>I repeat--get a recumbent. They're *wonderful*!!!!!
>
>
>OK. But which one? I've tried a lightning and a ryan. Which is
>"better"? What are other good alternatives?
>

How about a Counter Point Presto?  They are in the racing catagory of 
recumbents, but fine machines.

Peter
From: stork+@cs.cmu.edu (David Zabowski)
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.tech
Subject: Dent in Top Tube
Date: 3 Sep 92 18:21:50 GMT
Organization: School of Computer Science, Carnegie Mellon


Folks,

I recently managed to put a minor dent in my top tube.  What I was
wondering is if this is cause for concern and whether or not I should
talk to a frame builder about getting a new tube put in?  The frame is
a Reynolds 531 Double Butted and the dent is rather minor.
Unfortunately, the dent is probably in the thin walled part of the
tube.  The bike is definitely a road only bike so it doesn't have to
deal with the rigors of off road riding.  So, what do you folks think?
Any relevant information will be greatly appreciated.

Stork

-- 

David Zabowski
Research Programmer, School of Computer Science
Carnegie Mellon University, Pittsburgh PA 15213
From: rgo@druhi.att.com (Ron Olsen)
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.tech
Subject: Re: MTB:  How to not trash the rear derailleur?
Date: 2 Sep 92 03:41:46 GMT
Reply-To: r.g.olsen@att.com
Organization: AT&T Bell Labs, Denver CO

|> So, does anyone have experience in NOT trashing derailleurs?

I also have experience in trashing MTB derailleurs, unfortunately.
Here are several of pieces of advice:

1. Be careful in really rocky terrain.  If there is just a narrow slot
   between two large rocks, you might be better off walking it than
   trying to ride it.

2. In rough downhill terrain with large rocks,
   chose a gear that keeps the derailleur
   cage more horizontal than vertical, to get it up out of the way
   of nasty stuff on the trail.

3. Watch out on trails with lots of downed tree limbs.
   I caught a 1-foot-long section of aspen branch (about 2" diameter)
   in my rear derailleur while cruising on the Dyke Trail in Crested Butte.
   It destroyed the derailleur when I resumed pedaling.

4. Carry a chain tool.  If your derailleur gets trashed,
   remove it.  Pick a middle-range gear, and shorten the chain
   so you can limp home in a one-speed.

5. Ride a little more conservatively.  Endos in rocky terrain
   have a perverse habit of landing derailleur-side down.
   The day after I destroyed my derailleur on the Dyke Trail,
   I bashed the new one in a slow-speed crash on Trail 409.
   Fortunately, only the derailleur hanger needed
   straightening; the derailleur itself was OK. 

	Ron Olsen
	Boulder, Colorado
	r.g.olsen@att.com
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.tech
From: tomk@netcom.com (Thomas H. Kunich)
Subject: Re: top five innovations
Date: Wed, 26 Aug 92 23:04:53 GMT
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services (408 241-9760 guest)

In article <rrempel.714853526@sfu.ca> rrempel@selkirk.sfu.ca (Rodney Dwight Rempel) writes:
>
>Yup, an amazing --marketing-- invention. Despite a bit of searching back
>when the thing came out I couldn't find a single scientific article showing
>any advantage for the Biopace. It makes sense (sort of), and had nifty
>marketing so lots of people bought it. Since people were buying it it had

Biopace was originally based on the work of a japanese
professor. He had lots of good data to back it up. Unfortunately
he apparently used japanese commuters as an example of all
bicycle riders. These commuters, of course, pedaled at very low
cadences. Biopace worked very well on the small ring of a 
mountain bike which was generally used in the cadence range that
the thing was designed for. Unfortunately they didn't make a 24
tooth version because of mechnical reasons.

Shimano may have marketed the devil out of it but it made sense
to a lot of people before it got that far. 


Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.tech
From: scweddel@nyx.cs.du.edu (scott weddel)
Subject: bike suspension news?
Summary: No discussion of bike suspensions in the tech group?
Keywords: atb, suspension, shock absorber
Organization: University of Denver, Dept. of Math & Comp. Sci.
Date: Thu, 3 Sep 92 17:32:38 GMT


What's the state of the art in bike suspensions?  I've heard a little about
the existence, but haven't found many people to know it exists.
What's available and what are the going rates?

Scott Weddel   strider   Apple /// aficionado   eeidscw@engvms.unl.edu
    Sterling Rider       ^^^ Amiga too !  ^^^   UNLincoln Nebraska USA
From: markd@cup.hp.com (Mark_Donohoe)
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.tech
Subject: Re: helmet replacement--who does it?
Date: 4 Sep 92 18:34:21 GMT
Article-I.D.: cup.Bu2Gx9.Inr
Organization: Hewlett-Packard
X-Newsreader: Tin 1.1.3 PL5

Gordon Lee Powell Jr (glp7584@tamuts.tamu.edu) wrote:
: Howdy,
: 
: I know Specialized does have a free replacement offer.  I like the way
: they fit compared to my Vetta microshell, anyway.  Any others?
: 
: What are your experiences?
: 
Giro will do this for $15.  They claim this covers processing and handeling
etc...I just had my hammer head replaced (cracks in shell) for that amount.
Took less than 1 week and I am happy.  They also like you to send in a 
letter to explain how the helmet got that way.  This is supposed to help
them design a better helmet or some such.

--
Mark Donohoe (markd@cup.hp.com)
From: ncherry@cbnewsg.cb.att.com (neil j.cherry)
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.tech
Subject: Re: top five innovations
Date: 28 Aug 92 17:45:43 GMT
Article-I.D.: cbfsb.1992Aug28.174543.13914
Organization: AT&T

In article <rrempel.714853526@sfu.ca> rrempel@selkirk.sfu.ca (Rodney Dwight Rempel) writes:
>davis@ee.rochester.edu (Al Davis) writes:
>
>>I am amazed you all missed the most important innovation of all:
>
>>** Biopace **
>
>
>Yup, an amazing --marketing-- invention. Despite a bit of searching back
	[...]
>                          Some people who have it like it and swear by it,
	[...]
>... if two million people do a stupid thing it's still a stupid thing.

I swear at them, I ind that when I ride at slow leasurely speeds that I don't
notice them. But if I switch to the big ring and pump hard I end up with sore
knees. I didn't have this problem before biopace and my old bike had simular
top gearing. I don't notice this when I'm riding the trails either, but I tend
not to hit the big ring then.

NJC
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.tech,rec.bicycles
From: cryan@sweetpea.jsc.nasa.gov (scott cryan 283-4109)
Subject: Re: Bicycling Magazine (Was Re: mavic electronic derailleurs)
Organization: McDonnell Douglas Space Systems Company
Date: Thu, 3 Sep 1992 14:01:04 GMT

In article <MJOHNSTO.92Sep2150629@jenny.shearson.com>, mjohnsto@jenny.shearson.com (Mike Johnston) writes:
|> In article <-020992130414@microlab17.med.upenn.edu> news@netnews.upenn.edu (USENET News System) writes:
|>    There is mention of it in the October issue of Bicycling.
|>                                  ^^^^^^^
|> 
|> October? Is 
there an October issue already? I haven't seen September as yet although
|> it's all over the newstands. I'm a bit annoyed at the late delivery I get of this 
|> magazine. I'm tempted to cancel my subscription and buy it when it comes out 
|> instead
|> Michael R. Johnston

The latest issue from Bicycling is "September/October"

Just adding my opinion.

Scott Cryan				cryan@sweetpea.jsc.nasa.gov
        "My comments are my own, not my employer's"
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.tech
From: iba@kronos.arc.nasa.gov (Wayne Iba)
Subject: Re: Frith's tandem update
Keywords: tandem
Organization: NASA/ARC Information Sciences Division
Date: Thu, 27 Aug 1992 23:21:35 GMT

rfriedel@csd4.csd.uwm.edu (Ronald J Friedel) writes:
>>
>>Have you ever had trouble with a soft knocking-clunky sort of sound which
>>appears to be coming from the front bottom bracket, especially under heavy
>>load?   Freewheeling for a moment stops it, but it comes back again once
>>the load gets hard.
>
>We also have a Duet and I have two possible solutions to your clunking sound.

>The first is that your freewheel might be coming apart.  The outside bearing
>race might be unscrewing.  It unscrews in a clockwise direction. 

Do you mean "fixed cup"?  No (well, most) freewheel threads are standard
(i.e., loosen counter-clockwise).  

We tried cranks 90 deg out of phase, but I felt like we went slower. 

--wayne
From: stigmata@athena.mit.edu (???)
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.tech
Subject: Re: creakondale
Date: 28 Aug 92 16:28:55 GMT
Organization: Massachusetts Institute of Technology

In article <ENGSTROM.92Aug27163843@moriarty.src.honeywell.com> engstrom@src.honeywell.com (Eric Engstrom) writes:
>
>In article <1992Aug26.195205.18467@athena.mit.edu> stigmata@athena.mit.edu (???) writes:
>
>> well, after getting a few replies to my previous post in rec.bicycles
>> regarding a creaking bottom bracket, i thank the person who told me that it
>> could be the rear hub in the dropouts, and i am pretty sure that he was
>> correct because i don't recall the bike creaking with my race wheels in it.
>> so, anybody with a creaking frame has another possible culprit.
>
>I don't mean to be a doubting Thomas, but, well, I doubt it.  I've seen a lot
>of people with this problem;  Sound comes directly from the crank-set and/or
>bottom-bracket, generally louder when you put more pressure on the cranks.
>
>[stuff regarding tightening the crankset bolts]
>
>Eric -- As always, your mileage may vary (pun intended)
>+------------
>Eric Engstrom, Honeywell Systems & Research Center, Mpls, MN, USA
>engstrom@src.honeywell.com  -or-  NeXTMail: eric%basilisk@src.honeywell.com
>     < I eat from the four food groups: Barley, Hops, Yeast, Water. >
>
this sound only happened when i stood up while climbing, and maybe
a few pedal stokes after i sat down as the torque lowered.  and i
still believe that the rear hub was the problem because it happens
on my training wheels only.  i rode my race wheels today, and no
creaking.  i'm not saying that a loose crank might not be the problem
for some, but not in this case.  in fact, my old racing bike had a
loose crank, and i never heard any creaking from it, it just got
loose until i finally cleaned all parts that mate and there it no
longer loosened.  so, there can be many causes for things creaking,
and if i found out my cause and it stopped, then that is a good
thing all around, although i will take your advice and make sure
that my crank is tightened down sufficiently.

andy