HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: kane@buast7.bu.edu (Hot Young Star)
Newsgroups: ca.politics,ba.politics
Subject: Re: "Homophobic Rampages"?
	 A lot of people don't want to think about it
Date: 22 Jul 92 13:59:09 GMT
	    <1992Jul18.174335.17984@gordian.com>
	    <11327@optilink.UUCP>
Followup-To: ca.politics
Organization: Astronomy Department, Boston University, Boston, MA, USA

In article <11327@optilink.UUCP> cramer@optilink.UUCP (Clayton Cramer) writes:

>In article <1992Jul18.174335.17984@gordian.com>,
mike@gordian.com (Michael A. Thomas) writes:

>#   I can't imagine your shock! Were you sitting down at the time
># this revelation came about? I bet you keep smelling salts around
># the house now, when other Claytonian divinations are revealed.

>I was surprised to find [purported evidence that homosexual men are
>the products of abusive and/or smothering homes, and are more likely
>than heterosexual men to molest children] -- really quite surprised.
>But I don't pass out when I discover something disturbing.

That's right: you pass out first, then you *dream* you've found something
disturbing.
Xref: sparky ca.politics:5957 soc.culture.asian.american:7008 soc.culture.african.american:8218
From: kane@buast7.bu.edu (Hot Young Star)
Newsgroups: ca.politics
Subject: Re: "Homophobic Rampages"?
Date: 22 Jul 92 14:02:12 GMT
Organization: Astronomy Department, Boston University, Boston, MA, USA

In article <11360@optilink.UUCP> cramer@optilink.UUCP (Clayton Cramer) writes:

>Men commit the vast majority of murders in the U.S.

How can you then say that women and men "think alike"?
Newsgroups: ca.politics
From: leavitt@cheshire.oxy.edu (Thomas VanNess Leavitt)
Subject: Re: JUNE GENIS IN THE ORANGE COUNTY REGISTER!!
Organization: Occidental College, Los Angeles, CA 90041 USA.
Date: Sat, 25 Jul 1992 20:57:35 GMT

"immigrants come here, make babies, and get on welfare"

Jesus Christ man, get a clue, Chipmunk... I'm sure the hundreds and 
thousands of Korean store owners who work their butts off, and their
kids who work their butts off in school to get ahead provide greate
evidence to back up your theory (no I don't know how to use vi, so I
am not going to correct the misspelling of great).  How about those
Mexican mothers who work 40 hours a week at minimum wage, and then
spend $70 to rent a closet to sleep in with their 14 year old kids?

I'd really like to see some substantial evidence that immigrants, as a
whole, are more likely to "make babies, and get on welfare, and become
eligible for more entitlements"... this is outrageous bullshit.

Thom

Xref: sparky ca.politics:6019 soc.culture.asian.american:7127 soc.culture.african.american:8273
From: cramer@optilink.UUCP (Clayton Cramer)
Newsgroups: ca.politics
Subject: Re: "Homophobic Rampages"?
Date: 23 Jul 92 21:20:50 GMT
Organization: Optilink Corporation, Petaluma, CA

In article <91580@bu.edu>, kane@buast7.bu.edu (Hot Young Star) writes:
> In article <11360@optilink.UUCP> cramer@optilink.UUCP (Clayton Cramer) writes:
> 
> >Men commit the vast majority of murders in the U.S.
> 
> How can you then say that women and men "think alike"?

Blacks commit a disproportionate number of murders in the U.S.;
about 3.5x what you would expect.  Does that mean blacks don't
think like whites?  Not in my experience.  Though I'm sure that
Mr. Kane will use this information to justify special laws
to treat blacks as "special."
-- 
Clayton E. Cramer {uunet,pyramid}!optilink!cramer  My opinions, all mine!
"Well, maybe the Holocaust was right *for that culture*." -- a moral relativist
with whom I work.
From: howard@hasse.hal.com (Howard Gayle)
Newsgroups: ca.politics
Subject: Re: _A Constitutional History of the United States_
Summary: History is written by the winners.
Keywords: late unpleasantness
Date: 30 Jul 92 14:13:10 GMT
Reply-To: howard@hal.com (Howard Gayle)
Organization: HaL Computer Systems, Inc., Campbell, California
NNTP-Posting-Host: hasse.hal.com
In-reply-to: cramer@optilink.UUCP (Clayton Cramer)

In article <11441@optilink.UUCP>, cramer@optilink (Clayton Cramer) writes:
>  Unfortunately, I run into too many college
>students like the gal who recently expressed amazement at discovering 
>the U.S. had a Civil War in the last century.

A vicious Yankee lie! :-)

Seriously, a good case can be made that in 1861 some states
seceded from the U.S., then voluntarily formed a confederation.
(The secession was at least as legal as when some colonies
seceded from Britain in 1776.) There was then a war between what
was left of the U.S. and the new confederation.  The war was
thus between two different countries, not a civil war within one
country.

There's even marginal relevance to California politics here, as
there are proposals for California (or at least Northern
California) to secede.
--
Howard Gayle
HAL Computer Systems, Inc.
1315 Dell Avenue
Campbell, California 95008
howard@hal.com
Phone: 408-379-7000 ext. 1080
FAX  : 408-379-5022
Newsgroups: ca.politics
From: GA.JRG@forsythe.stanford.edu (June Genis)
Subject: Re: JUNE GENIS IN THE ORANGE COUNTY REGISTER!!
Organization: Stanford University, California, USA
Distribution: ca
Date: Mon, 27 Jul 1992 01:44:41 GMT

In article <1992Jul26.231857.1627@aero.org>,
foy@aero.org (Richard Foy) writes:
>In article <1992Jul23.234155.17076@morrow.stanford.edu> GA.JRG@forsythe.stanford.edu (June Genis) writes:
>Putting down a couple of million on a business does not mean that someone
>will stay here. The person might simply hire a manager and go back to the
>old country. In fact some people in foreign countries buy businesses here
>with out even moving here.

True, but does it matter?  If someone has made a long term
investment in a country and indicates that this is the country they
wish to vote in rather than the one in which they are living, is
there some reason that would be bad?  Note that many native born
Americans actually live and work overseas but retain their voting
rights here.  What I'm looking for as a criteria of granting
citizenship is some way of judging that the person has made a
commitment to making America the best that it can be.  Financial
investment is by no means the only way to determine that someone
has made such a commitment but it seems to me to be at least as
meaningful as any others that I can think of.

>Richard Foy                       Standard Disclaimer

/June
Newsgroups: ca.politics,soc.culture.asian.american,soc.culture.african.american,soc.culture.jewish
From: brian@quake.sylmar.ca.us (Brian K. Yoder)
Subject: Re: 1 white male among new San Jose firemen of 22
Organization: Quake Public Access
Distribution: na
Date: Tue, 21 Jul 1992 21:29:38 GMT

What can we do to help eliminate racism aside from affirmative action? Well,
I think that eliminating affirmative action in and of itself would be a good
first step since such programs are a tremendous source of outrage among the
unfavored groups.  Fundamentally though, since racism is a system of belief
over which individuals have control, there is only one way to eliminate it
and that is to convince such people they are wrong (I suppose you caould also wait
until they die too, but that takes a long time).  No matter how much money
is lavished on minorities, how many jobs are given up, and how many tax dollars
are spent, you cannot change someone's mind if he doesn't see a good reason for
changing it, and all of these calls for inter-racial sacrifice will only
make the problems worse by endorsing the ideas of racial difference and group
rights.  You can't cure racism by being a racist.

--Brian
From: asylvain@felix.filenet.com (The Chipmunk)
Newsgroups: ca.politics
Subject: Re: Help for California Libraries! Dire Need!
Date: 27 Jul 92 18:52:41 GMT
            <4496@bacon.IMSI.COM>
Reply-To: asylvain@fritz.filenet.com (The Chipmunk)
Organization: Foundation for the Increased Wealth of Chipmunks

Written in article <4496@bacon.IMSI.COM>
 by jordan@IMSI.COM (Jordan Hayes):

: The Chipmunk <asylvain@fritz.filenet.com> writes:
:
:	 If you attend school, you pay tuition.
:
: Like the only person who benefits from someone attending school is
: the pupil?

No, and I've stated this elsewhere.  You musta mist it.

The PRIMARY beneficiary is the student (pupil, whatever).

So ... it should be paid for by the brimary beneficiary.  Indirect
beneficiaries should be ALLOWED to help pay, if they so choose.

Shucks, I can give you a solid argument as to why groceries are benefi-
cial to "society as a whole."  Is that sufficient reason to convert
grocery stores to a publically run institution?  HELL no.  We'd starve!

Therefore food, like education, is paid for by the primary beneficiary.
Plain and simple.  The indirect benefits gained by having a non-hungry 
society remain indirect, and not paid via taxes (exceptions duly noted).

: Sure, you'd save money at the state level.  You'd also guarantee
: that nearly everyone you interact with will be an idiot.

Yes.  We all are starving, are we not?  Clearly, since only you and three
other people believe in the value of education, nobody would seek one 
without govt-force.  Converting public schools to a 100% free market can 
only mean that they'd all close down for lack of interest, right?  Right!

Gimme a break.

:/ jordan

-- 
The Chipmunk.
Opinions are mine, batteries not included, void where prohibited.
Segmentation Violation -- Bus Trap -- Core Dump -- CPU Meltdown
Damn, you really blew it this time!
From: wheeler@clipper.edsg.hac.com (Bob Wheeler ird)
Newsgroups: ca.politics
Subject: Re: Pete Wilson & Dr. Seuss
Keywords: Poem
Date: 24 Jul 92 19:51:14 GMT
Reply-To: wheeler@clipper.UUCP (Bob Wheeler ird)
Organization: Hughes Aircraft Co., El Segundo, CA

How many democrats attended the convention while the budget lapsed?
How many republicans will attend the convention while the budget lapses.

This is a two-way street.
The republicans do not want to increase the debt-load on a recession-laden
economy.  The democrats do not want to further erode social services and
education.

This is a two-way street.  Both are complicit.  Both are trying to do what
is best.

If you blame Pete Wilson, blame also Willie Brown.  Robertie was willing to
sign to a budget, Brown was not.  (If memory serves me correct.  Please
correct me if I am wrong.  But don't flame, I am just trying to be a voice
of sanity).

		Bob Wheeler
From: asylvain@felix.filenet.com (The Chipmunk)
Newsgroups: ca.politics
Subject: JUNE GENIS IN THE ORANGE COUNTY REGISTER!!
Date: 20 Jul 92 22:47:25 GMT
Reply-To: asylvain@fritz.filenet.com (The Chipmunk)
Organization: Foundation for the Increased Wealth of Chipmunks

I can hardly believe it!  We actually got >>GASP!!<< media coverage of
a Libertarion candidate!  It ain't much, but it's a start!  (June, the 
picture in the paper is MUCH nicer than the one in the Lib.newsletter!)  

Refererence: Orange County Register, July 20, 1992
Page: A3
Senate Candidates (long seat) & The Issues
IMMIGRATION

In summary:

=========================================
Baraba Boxer, Democrat.

Supports reasonable levels of immigration based on appropriate limits
which [are politically correct].  Believes in "secure borders."  Voted 
for $10 million increased funding for the INS.

=========================================
Bruce Herschensohn, Republican

Opposes constitutional provision granting citizenship to any child born
on US soil.  Says at least one parent should be a citizen.  Would
increase Border Patrol funds.  Does not support physical impediments
such as walls or ditches.

=========================================
June Genis, Libertarian

Supports loosening and simplyfying immigration laws to allow people to
work if they are willing to give up entitlements or welfare.  Says
illegal immigration would fall dramatically under such a plan.

=========================================
Jerome McCready, American Independent
Genevieve Torres, Peace & Freedom

Did not respond by deadline.
=========================================

Interesting.  I wonder why the Libertarian candidate is the only one not
in favor of throwing more money at the problem??  B-{)

Even more interesting, that a fairly mainstream paper (the Orange County
Register is not exactly a throw-away!) is actually putting forth some
effort to cover ALL the candidates, instead of just the Big Two.

I find this quite refreshing!

-- 
The Chipmunk.
Opinions are mine, batteries not included, void where prohibited.
There is no distinctly native American criminal class except Congress.
    -- Mark Twain
From: cramer@optilink.UUCP (Clayton Cramer)
Newsgroups: ca.politics
Subject: Re: "Homophobic Rampages"?
Date: 22 Jul 92 00:26:14 GMT
Organization: Optilink Corporation, Petaluma, CA

In article <l6mq0kINNt3u@exodus.Eng.Sun.COM>, chased@rbbb.Eng.Sun.COM (David Chase) writes:
> In article <91365@bu.edu> kane@buast7.bu.edu (Hot Young Star) writes:
# Seriously, I doubt if my opinions will change drastically if/when
# we have a second child (one child != "children").  Sure, I worry about
# NAMBLA, but in practice I worry a lot more about Max wandering into
# traffic and getting squashed or climbing into a fountain and drowning.

Definitely a more likely possibility.  But then again, no one is
busy trying to encourage those sort of accidents.

# I don't know of any homosexual defenders of NAMBLA -- after all, those
# people posting in soc.motss that Clayton quotes with such gusto could
# be imposters (my conspiracy is more plausible than your conspiracy,
# nyah nyah nyah :-).  And, as I have said several times before,

Yeah, that's it, all these homosexuals in soc.motss really aren't.
Want to try something more plausible?

# consider your sample, and be wary of statistics.  If some study says
# that "X% of child molestors are gay", find out what constitutes "gay".
# Are we talking about men who only have sex with male children call
# themselves "gay", or what?  Are these the same people who march in the
# Gay Pride parade, or do they just happen to think it will be to their
# advantage to identify themselves as gay?  Is there any other evidence
# that they are gay?

So if they claim to be homosexual, attempt to have sex with people
of the same gender, we certainly can't be very sure that they are
homosexual, can we? :-)

# It'd also be entertaining to perform a similar analysis on say, males
# (of either sexual preference) and crime (say, murder and assault).
# If Clayton is being fair and true to his statistics, I think he'd be
# compelled to begin several years of man-bashing.
# 
# David Chase
# Sun

Men commit the vast majority of murders in the U.S.  If men as a
community or group started arguing for repeal of murder laws, or
there were even a sizeable minority of men arguing for repeal
of murder laws, would you get a little nervous?  Would it make
you wonder what in the heck was going on?

-- 
Clayton E. Cramer {uunet,pyramid}!optilink!cramer  My opinions, all mine!
"Well, maybe the Holocaust was right *for that culture*." -- a moral relativist
with whom I work.
Newsgroups: ca.politics
From: zursch@whizkid.corp.sgi.com (Jeffrey B. Zurschmeide)
Subject: Re: The Continuing State Budget Crisis
Reply-To: zursch@whizkid.corp.sgi.com (Jeffrey B. Zurschmeide)
Organization: SGI TechPubs
Date: Mon, 27 Jul 1992 18:04:20 GMT

In article <11387@optilink.UUCP>, Clayton Cramer writes:

>I've noticed an interesting and irksome asymmetry with respect to the
>State of California's current budget crisis -- while the spending 
>authority of the state ceases when no budget is in effect, their
>taxing authority is not similarly restrained.  Does anyone think
>that making this a symmetrical arrangement might not encourage a
>more rapid solution to the problem?

If the Cal. Supreme Court made such a ruling, we'd have a budget by lunchtime. (And 
it's 10:59 right now!) 

I had that selfsame thought last week on the way to work.

I believe that Pete is standing tough on this to support his 1996 run for the Presidency. He
wants to be able to go up against President Clinton or Dan Quayle as the anti-tax candidate.
Willie Brown, however, I'm not sure about. I think he just wants to avoid a political defeat. 
  
>Or perhaps I could give the
>next shopkeeper who asks for sales tax a "registered warrant" for
>the 7.5%...

Well, if you did that (and also sent the state an IOU for your withholding) they'd probably throw
you in jail. The only good coming out of that would be that you wouldn't be harping on gays
in this forum. (Gotcha! ;^}) 

JZ


-- 
Clayton E. Cramer {uunet,pyramid}!optilink!cramer  My opinions, all mine!
"Well, maybe the Holocaust was right *for that culture*." -- a moral relativist
with whom I work.

Newsgroups: ca.politics
From: GA.JRG@forsythe.stanford.edu (June Genis)
Subject: Re: JUNE GENIS IN THE ORANGE COUNTY REGISTER!!
Organization: Stanford University, California, USA
Distribution: ca
Date: Sun, 26 Jul 1992 14:45:44 GMT

In article <19038@fritz.filenet.com>,
asylvain@felix.filenet.com (The Chipmunk) writes:
>Written in article <1992Jul22.164241.13921@odin.corp.sgi.com>
> by zursch@whizkid.corp.sgi.com (Jeffrey B. Zurschmeide):
>
>:=========================================
>:> June Genis, Libertarian
>:
>:> Supports loosening and simplyfying immigration laws to allow people to
>:> work if they are willing to give up entitlements or welfare.  Says
>:> illegal immigration would fall dramatically under such a plan.
>:
>: Well, of course it would fall. Since you would essentially be legalizing the
>: current system.
>
>I disagree.  One of the big beefs about immigrants, legal AND illegal,
>is that they come over, make babies, then get on welfare.  Plus, when
>they get sick, hospital emergency rooms are required to treat them,
>whether or not they have the ability to pay.  There are also other
>entitlement programs they become eligible for, despite failure to show
>green cards.

I suppose in a way I agree with both of you.  It would legalize the
entry of many people who do come here to work and ask nothing more
than the opportunity to do so.  It would provide a disincentive to
those who think of America as a place where anyone can get a handout
anytime they want it.  I don't care whether the former type come in
legally or illegally because they are contributing to the society.
I don't want the latter to come in either way because they are a
drain on our productivity.  I believe that what I propose will bring
in the kind of people I want to work along side off and discourage
those I don't want moving into my neighborhood.

/June
Newsgroups: ca.politics
From: leavitt@cheshire.oxy.edu (Thomas VanNess Leavitt)
Subject: Re: Immigration (was Re: June Genis in the Orange County Register)
Organization: Occidental College, Los Angeles, CA 90041 USA.
Date: Tue, 28 Jul 1992 00:29:30 GMT

Yes, I can see that people want to get out of Haiti.  I don't see them doing
that for the sole purpose of getting on the wonderful American dole.  That
a reasonable percentage of new immigrants might wind up on the dole on a 
temporary basis is something I can accept.  But as a permanent lifestyle?

Besides, General Relief (the male dole) is a joke.  $300 a month in L.A.?
And you have to spend most of your time running after a job?  I mean, come
on... even the most unemployable person will luck into some $4.25 an hour
non-union janitorial job eventually.

Thom

Newsgroups: ca.politics
From: leavitt@cheshire.oxy.edu (Thomas VanNess Leavitt)
Subject: Re: I'm enraged.
Organization: Occidental College, Los Angeles, CA 90041 USA.
Distribution: ca
Date: Sat, 25 Jul 1992 20:52:02 GMT

Ah, but I never saw much of that money... from the age of ten to sixteen,
I got a $5, then $10/week allowance.  skipped lunch to save the money to
buy books.  I never got anything more than the basics... didn't want anything
more, I had my books.

It ain't the things a middle class income brings, it's the security...
knowing that the bills will be paid, that you won't have to worry about
how to fix the car, or whether or not that grinding sound in the transmission
which has been going on for about three years now really needs to be fixed,
that the electricity won't go out because the checks bounced, that the
water won't be cut off... little things like that.

Every damn thing I've bought since age 16 has come from my own earnings,
or from gifts from relatives.  I don't ask my parents for anything but
a roof over my head and an occassional meal, when I come home from school,
if I don't have enough cash to rent a place of my own.

Thom
 
Newsgroups: ca.politics
From: andy@SAIL.Stanford.EDU (Andy Freeman)
Subject: DNA databank
Organization: Computer Science Department,  Stanford University.
Date: Wed, 29 Jul 1992 18:20:57 GMT


It seems that CA has been collecting tissue/blood samples from some
convicted/accused sex offenders.  These samples are currently just
sitting in a refrigerator, but Lundgren (Attorney General) wants to
tax day-care facilities so that these samples can be made useful for
investigative purposes.  (Note that finger print databases are
automated.  One finger samples, like the DMV collects, are good for
"is this the person who gave this print?" questions but not "here's a
print, find another set of prints in the database that matches".)

Rather than discuss the precise details, I'd like to talk about the
idea of universal ID systems, with respect to the convicted, the
accused, and those of us who haven't even been accused.  (My personal
bias is that accused people shouldn't be treated any differently than
the rest of us and that all information gathered about them should be
destroyed, but police vehemently disagree.)  Should govt have a useful
DNA "fingerprint" database of certain subsets of the population?
Which subsets?  How long should the entries be maintained?  Who should
have access to the database?  Should the govt have such a database for
the entire population?  How should access to their entries be
controlled?

-andy

--
UUCP:    {arpa gateways, sun, decwrl, uunet, rutgers}!cs.stanford.edu!andy
ARPA:    andy@cs.stanford.edu
Newsgroups: ca.politics
From: leavitt@cheshire.oxy.edu (Thomas VanNess Leavitt)
Subject: Re: JUNE GENIS IN THE ORANGE COUNTY REGISTER!!
Organization: Occidental College, Los Angeles, CA 90041 USA.
Date: Wed, 22 Jul 1992 23:11:48 GMT

1.  The LAT generally covers other party candidates to some degree...

My opinion is that no free trade agreement should be executed without
also agreeing to a free market in labor (i.e. open borders for human
resources as well as natural resources).  

The Libertarian platform strikes me as endorsing the fallacious concept
that illegal immigrants suck money out of social welfare programs... the
only social welfare programs illegal aliens put a dramatic burden on are
the educational system, primarily in the grammar and secondary levels...
which I don't think fall under the Libertarian platforms arguments.

Thom

Newsgroups: ca.politics