From: heim@vms.macc.wisc.edu (JOHN HEIM	)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.football.pro
Subject: Re: Vikes/Packers fans II  (was Re: Vikes KILL the Pack)
Date: 29 Dec 92 18:09:44 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: University of Wisconsin Academic Computing Center

In article <1992Dec29.002710.19029@serval.net.wsu.edu>, jjungbau@luke.eecs.wsu.edu (Jim Jungbauer) writes...

>In article <1992Dec28.162628.28595@macc.wisc.edu> heim@vms.macc.wisc.edu (JOHN HEIM	) writes:
>>In article <1hn83kINNj33@uwm.edu>, caeser@csd4.csd.uwm.edu (Robert Michael Trotter) writes...
>>
>>>>The way I got it figured, the score is at least 7-0 in Packer fan's 
>>>>favor as far as showing class goes.
>>>>
>>>	Again, please tdont generalize us all. I am a PROUD Vikings
>>>	fan and I am also congradulate the Packers on a fine season.
>>
>>There is no generalization my statement above.  I'm still waiting for 
>>a Vikings fan to tell the people posting Packer anti-woofs to knock it 
>>off or for an apology from someone for all the generalizations about 
>>Packer fans.
> 
>But, John, there *is* generalization in your statement.  You are grouping the
>fans from each team and ranking the two groups according to class.  

This is a conclusion that *you* have drawn in response to my 7-0 
score.  

Vikings fans *are* a group, whether you like it or not.  Generalizing 
is attempting to draw some conclusion about the whole group based on 
observance of a few.  I simply posted my observance.  You may draw 
whatever conclusion you want.

The fact is that no one in the group of Vikings fans has stood up and 
said "Hey, let's be gratious about the Vikings success.  Let's not rub 
salt in the wounds of Packer fans.  The Vikings have won, that should 
be enough."

This is essentially what Packer fans did when someone posted a Vikings 
anti-woof.  I don't mean to imply that Packer fans are, as a group, 
classier than Vikings fans.  Just that any statement about classless 
behavior of Packers fans is unfair.  I'd like to remind you that this 
particular thread started when a (note the use of the singular term) 
Vikings fan posted a message about classless Packer fans.

>What Mark
>is asking (I think, please correct me if I'm wrong) and what I am asking is 
>that you instead treat individual posters accordingly.  If you have a problem
>with what one person says, then respond to it and be as critical of that post
>as you feel is necessary.  But please don't ask Vikes fans who didn't post
>what you are criticizing to apologize for those who did... this is *exactly*
>what is wrong with generalization -- you're asking us to be responsible for
>everyone else who is a fan of our team.  If you choose to apologize for your
>fellow Packer fans, that's great, but you shouldn't expect everyone to do
>so, and you shouldn't criticize those who don't.

I never apologized for the behavior of other Packer fans.  But I did 
tell a Packer fan to knock off the anti-woofs when the Vikings were 
down (and so did several other Packer fans.)  I don't expect you to 
apologize for the behavior of other Vikings fans.  I'm just saying I 
have yet to see an apology from the offending Vikings fan.

I suspect that most readers of r.s.f.p don't consider this an
interesting debate.  I'm not going to post anymore messages on this
topic.  If anyone wants to say anything to me about this I suggest
they do it via email.

JGH
Newsgroups: rec.sport.football.pro