HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: mary@Cayman.COM (Mary Malmros)
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
Subject: Re: My first tournament - Results
Date: 2 Oct 92 21:09:52 GMT
	<1992Oct2.073901.12872@pixel.kodak.com>
Organization: Cayman Systems Inc., Cambridge, MA
In-reply-to: lund@ssd.kodak.com's message of 2 Oct 92 07:39:01 GMT


In article <1992Oct2.073901.12872@pixel.kodak.com> lund@ssd.kodak.com (Nate Lund) writes:

   In article <MARY.92Sep30220108@martinique.Cayman.COM>
					mary@Cayman.COM (Mary Malmros) writes:

   [the following line, which I've taken out of context ... :-)]

   >kind of tricky.  Again, there are simpler and less error-prone alternatives.

   Imagine that.  A TKD person saying this about a TKD kick...  8-D

*pfffft*  ;-)

   "Oops, better duck.  No, wait, run away.  No, wait, run away, _then_ duck.  No,
   wait, ..." KRUNCH, Thud...  O%-p

OOOH, how verbose.  Must be one of those flowery Chinese stylists.  

For those newbies who haven't seen it before, the proper steps of the 
first Nike-Do form are:

	"Run away!  No, duck!  No, wait, run away, THEN duck!  
	 No, wait--" <crunch>*thud*

   I tried to resist, honest, it must have been the jet lag.  :-)

That's right, Nate, you and Lauren both...blame it on the jet lag.  
Hey, I don't need any excuses for MY worst excesses!
--
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
 Mary Malmros     | Cayman Systems Inc, 26 Landsdowne St, Cambridge, MA 02139
 mary@cayman.com  | Phone 617-494-1999  Fax 617-494-5167  AppleLink CAYMAN.TECH

Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
From: fcrary@ucsu.Colorado.EDU (Frank Crary)
Subject: Re: Internal Arts...
Organization: University of Colorado, Boulder
Date: Fri, 2 Oct 1992 16:06:16 GMT

In article <23962@sybase.sybase.com> thorick@sybase.com (Thorick Chow) writes:
>well..  what he showed us was DEFINITELY walking the circle, with
>the basic fixed hand position (one hand 'out and an eye level' other
>hand at the 'lower gate')  but facing OUTWARDS of the circle (!) .

Wierd... (And saying that's weird for bagua is going a long ways...)

>>You might have been learning the Beijing Sports Institute's style,
>>with 24 palm changes (a high, middle and low basin of the eight
>>"animals")

>nope..  he learned in Peking, but it was in the 1920's, way before
>the commie pinko 'for the good of the people' stuff...  instead it
>was the running-dog-capitalist 'for the good of the people' stuff... :-)

I really doubt the communists actually contributed anything to the art,
just hired someone good so they would have an impressive institute...
(The only contribution I've ever heard of the communists making was
the invention of Wu Shu. Which in itself says something: I've never
heard a favorable comment about Wu Shu. As a fighting form, it's 
apparently quite weak...)

>THe changes were done "left-side", "right-side", he just called them
>out by number (it was easier that way)..  after we'd become familiar
>with them, practice consisted largely of one number after another
>being called out...
>there's one book out on this particular style that I'm aware of
>it's "the True Passing Down of Ba-Gua CHuan" by SUn SI-KUn (the
>book is written in CHinese)..  as there's pictures of CHeng Ting-Hua
>in the book, I guess it's come down from him (there's a lineage chart,
>but I can't recall it off the top of my head).....

Tung Hai-Ch'aun/Cheng Ting-Hua/Cheng Yu-Lung/Sun Hsi-K'un
That would be the Cheng sytle that Cheng tought his son.

Sun Hsi-K'un's book migh come out in English in a few years: My old 
instructor is doing translations of a number of famous bagua books.

                                                     Frank Crary
                                                     CU Boulder

Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
From: mckellar@cs.UAlberta.CA (Neil McKellar)
Subject: Re: Aikido-U.S. & Japan
Organization: University of Alberta, Edmonton, Canada
Date: Tue, 29 Sep 1992 18:24:42 GMT

stark@dwovax.enet.dec.com (Todd I. Stark) writes:

>eric.t.zmarzly.1@nd.edu (Eric Zmarzly) writes...

[snip]

>>Also, in Aikido, are there any techniques for kicks?  I have not come
>>across any in my limited studing.
>> 

[snip]

>Most people at about brown belt level try kotegaeshi against the ankle
>and discover that it doesn't work too well on a proper kick and they stick 
>to timing throws.   Some adapt jujutsu-like reaps with Aiki timing very
>effectively.   

>	Just from my experience ...

A black belt at the Aikido dojo I train at sometimes teaches self-defense
courses at work (he works at a youth detention center).  Some of the people
who sign up have had training in other arts.  He says he has successfully
used a kotegaeshi variation against the front snap kick.  While I can't do
this (no kidding! :-), he says it's just timing and having a committed attack.
Many people in practice will pull the kick back instead of trying to really
blast nage in the stomach.  The rest (he says) is extension and tai-sabaki
(sp?).  (Note: unless uke is following through on the kick, forcing the throw
either results in nage getting punched in the head or uke losing his knee.)

This is what I was told.  I have no reason to disbelieve any of it.  I also
confess to being too unskilled in my ukemi to have wanted a reasonable
demonstration of the technique.  :-) 8-o

Neil

Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
From: jss@bofur.unh.edu (Spectre)
Subject: Re: (what should I carry ?)
Organization: University of No Holidays - UNH - East somewhere
Date: Tue, 29 Sep 1992 19:33:07 GMT

In article <1992Sep28.205538.26284@linus.mitre.org> troyer@mitre.org (Tom Royer) writes:
>In article <92272.132223GMS@psuvm.psu.edu> Gerry Santoro - CAC/PSU 
><GMS@psuvm.psu.edu> writes:
>> 
>> - I still prefer a good umbrella, and I have carried them on airplanes,
>>   although I check them at the front of the plane.
>> 
>That and a double-ended key ring with lots of keys.
>In an airplane or at work, they go in my
>briefcase.  If I anticipate needing them, they're in hand.
>

I accidentally came across the method that I use now.  When it's springtime
on campus, it sucks when you have shorts, and need to carry your apartment
keys with you, so I went to EMS (Eastern Mountian Sports), and bought a section
of quarter inch braided climbing rope, and put my apartment keys on the rope.
I tied it and now carry my keys around my neck.  The rope is about 2 feet long,
so tied it's about 1 foot.  Anyone with any experience with Nunchucku can 
easily manipulate this as a weapon, and I infact, put a nice gash in a tennis
ball with the keys.  I keep them around my neck, and when walking around campus
at night, just keep them in my hand.  No-one has ever questioned me thinking
I had a weapon, and no-one has ever even given it a second glance.

						-Jeff


-- 
'I wrote my first program in 1978, and that didn't work either.'
|         Jeff Schreiber               | "The way to ski these things [moguls] |
|       jss@kepler.unh.edu             |  Is to go to total panic..............|
|    j_schreiber@unhh.unh.edu          |  Then....Back off." -Mike Hatrup      |
               My opinions are mine and only mine. I don't care 
               if they are wrong and you can't have them anyway!
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
From: stark@dwovax.enet.dec.com (Todd I. Stark)
Subject: Re: Is There A Korean Kempo?
Organization: Digital Equipment Corporation
Date:  5 OCT 92 09:38:28    


rtravsky@news.uwyo.edu (Rich Travsky) writes...
>Is there such a thing as Korean Kempo? This is a question that came my
>way recently. I must confess I've never given it any consideration
>before (having mostly associated the term kenpo/kempo with Chinese
>and Okinawan styles - I should add Japanese styles to that as well).

My understanding so far is that _Kempo_ was the name originally associated
with the Okinawan native arts somewhere between their Chinese origin
in Ch'uan-Fa, and how they were known in 19th-20th century as Okinawa-Te,
the forerunner of most Japanese Karate styles.   Hard to establish strong
links of historical influence with Korea prior to the 19th century, from what 
I've seen.  Be surprising, though, considering the technical elements.
Korean native striking arts are mostly heavily oriented toward using the legs as
weapons, and the _original_ Kempo concept, as I understand it, was to use the
legs solely as a platform for hand and arm strikes.  

Maybe someone else has more accurate or detailed information.

									todd
From: acharya@HYDRA.ROSE-HULMAN.EDU
Subject: Re: A (very) brief review of dillmans book
Reply-To: acharya@HYDRA.ROSE-HULMAN.EDU
Organization: Rose-Hulman Institute of Technology
Distribution: rec.martial-arts 
Date: Sat, 26 Sep 1992 16:14:56 GMT

In article <1992Sep24.142542.11986@porthos.cc.bellcore.com>, ejdath@donner.uucp (25832-dath) writes:

>In article <1992Sep23.203249.22491@cs.rose-hulman.edu> acharya@HYDRA.ROSE-HULMAN.EDU writes:
>>	another point from dillmans book: he talks about fist rotation saying
>>the the 3/4 tun punch is more effective than the complete twist punch taught
>>curre
>
>Could someone clarify this for me?  I am not sure that what I am picturing
>in my mind (as far as twisting punches) this idea properly.  I study 

in the karate punch the fist starts at the hip (palm side facing up) and
rotates to palm side facing down as it hits the target [a total rotation of
180 degrees]. in the 3/4 turn punch the fist starts palm side up but rotates
only 135 degrees or so when it hits the target.

-mukund
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
From: mary@Cayman.COM (Mary Malmros)
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
Subject: Re: Weak Ankles and Karate
Date: 1 Oct 92 21:45:48 GMT
Organization: Cayman Systems Inc., Cambridge, MA
In-reply-to: anderson@fermi.phys.ualberta.ca's message of 1 Oct 92 17:41:13 GMT


In article <1992Oct1.174113.29940@kakwa.ucs.ualberta.ca> anderson@fermi.phys.ualberta.ca (Warren G. Anderson) writes:

[snip re: bad ankle getting reinjured]

  >So my question is "has anyone else had this problem? How can it be dealt with?"
  >If I eliminate kumite I should be OK, but our particular school does not allow
  >one to advance into the higher belts without kumite, and I really like this  
  >club. Suggestions, comments, criticism and questions welcome.

One of my instructors basically destroyed his ankle once.  It didn't get
right again until he really put some dedicated effort into rehabilitating
it.  This included proper medical care, therapy, strengthening exercises,
and also sometimes wearing an ankle brace (a good one, not those cheezoid
neoprene things).  If I were you, I'd go to a sportsmedicine orthopedist 
to find out exactly what the extent of the damage is, and find what they 
recommend for rehab.  A sportsmedicine person is best because they will
understand more about the kind of stresses that you'll be subjecting
your ankle to, and will prescribe accordingly.  

--
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
 Mary Malmros     | Cayman Systems Inc, 26 Landsdowne St, Cambridge, MA 02139
 mary@cayman.com  | Phone 617-494-1999  Fax 617-494-5167  AppleLink CAYMAN.TECH
From: david@xlnt.com (David Johnson)
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
Subject: Re: A few questions about T'ai Chi..
Date: 28 Sep 92 17:14:46 GMT
Organization: XLNT Designs, Inc (XDI)

In article <1992Sep25.051600.6087@ucsu.Colorado.EDU>, fcrary@ucsu.Colorado.EDU (Frank Crary) writes:
|> In article <19qql0INN65e@agate.berkeley.edu> robinson@cogsci.Berkeley.EDU (Michael Robinson) writes:
|> >>After Cheng's death, one of Cheng's students, William Chen, went to Taiwan
|> >>and studying with some of the students of Cheng's original teacher and
|> >>learned the demanding form.
|> 
|> >Which is interesting because Yang Zhenduo (according to Bryant Fong) says
|> >there is no such thing...
|> 
|> I've seen several sorts of taiji two-man forms, which I was told, were
|> to teach fighting applications. Could these be related to the "demanding
|> form" refered to?


I am the one who posted about the physically demanding form.  My teacher
said it is analogous to the Chen Pau Chui form discussed in Tom Osborn's
post "Yang & Chen (was Re: A few questions about T'ai Chi..)".  I have
had some people tell me that there is no such thing.  My teacher claims
it is generally not taught in the US but it is easier, not necessarily
easy to find in Taiwan.

The two man form is something entirely different.  The two man form is
just a two person form.

My teacher is fairly prominent in the Chinese martial arts community, not
just in the US but in Taiwan as well.
Granted, he is primarily a xingyi practitioner and secondarily a Chen
stylist but I would think that he
would have his basic martial arts history straight.  He did say he
simplified some details in the off hand discussion we had.  There is more
to the story than what he told.

Many have said that it was Yang Cheng-fu made taiji more accessible by
creating a less physically demanding form.  The question this raises is
what did he do with the more physically demanding techniques.  I find it
hard to believe that he just discarded them.  Some have said my teacher
is wrong but he makes sense.  I do not think Yang Cheng-fu would just
throw those techniques away.

Will someone out there please post details of the evolution of the Yang
style?

-- 
David Johnson
XLNT Designs, Inc. (XDI)
david@xlnt.com
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
From: lund@ssd.kodak.com (Nate Lund)
Subject: Re: (what should I carry ?)
Organization: Eastman Kodak
Date: Fri, 2 Oct 92 07:02:19 GMT

In article <1992Sep29.154315.15937@cbfsb.cb.att.com> osan@cbnewsb.cb.att.com (Mr. X) writes:
>In article <717443327snx@ietech.demon.co.uk> nigel@ietech.demon.co.uk ("Nigel G. Backhurst") writes:
>>
>>
>>A clear sign that airport security people don't read 18th and 19th
>>century manuals on English Cane Fighting.  If they did they would
>>not allow anybody into the airport with a light walking cane.
>>
>	If they really knew anything about naked kill methods (improvised 
>	weapons) I don't think anyone would be able to get on to an airplane 
>	with a shred of clothing on their backs.  Could make for rather 
>	interesting flights though. 
>
>	-Andy V.

Well, I waited for a while, but no one else jumped on this one, so...

If they really knew anything about _naked_ kill methods, they wouldn't
allow _anyone_ on the plane.  Who needs clothes?  :-)

Sorry, I tried to resist.

Nate
nlund@kodak.com
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
From: schan@birch.srg.af.mil (Stephen Chan x4485)
Subject: Re: <None>
Organization: SRG, Arinc Research Corp., Annapolis, MD
Distribution: rec.martial-arts
Date: Thu, 01 Oct 92 12:55:10 GMT
Keywords: Pakua

In article <1992Sep30.162518.1@ntuvax.ntu.ac.sg> aj6924234@ntuvax.ntu.ac.sg writes:
>I have recently taken up a short introductory course on Pakua Chang.
>However, I was unable to get the teacher to elaborate on the practical 
>applications of the various "palms" and the fighting strategies usually
>employed by Pakua Chang practioners.
>Would look forward to any info re: a/m.
>Thanks.

	If you're studying an internal style like bagua, then you ought to be
prepared to learn proper movement and mental attitude before getting into
applications - this is true of many martial arts, but (to me), it seems to be
a requirement for internal styles.
	Excessive attention to a particular applications may cause you to
think in terms of techniques, instead of principles.

--
	Stephen Chan
	uunet!srg!schan or uunet!srg!schan@uunet.uu.net
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
From: hylton@rucs2.sunlab.cs.runet.edu (Core Dump ;))
Subject: Opinions Found : the sequel ;)
Organization: Radford University
Date: Mon, 5 Oct 92 23:39:59 GMT


  Hello once again,
    I would like to again thank all of you emailed me about my "quest".
  I have decided to go ahead and develop my own MA.  Not overnight now
  mind you.  I also will continously seek training as long as I'm able to.

    I hope to read more ideas and practices that I may make use of.

    BTW, what has happened to the Greenoch masters, have they all been put
  on rec.old.retired.ancient.etc ?
  ( I have particularly enjoyed reading about them, it was sometimes the
    only source of laughter I got all day. :) )



You can find me under a rock at,
hylton@rucs2.sunlab.cs.runet.edu

Michael
From: jon@zeus.med.utah.edu (Jonathan Byrd)
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
Subject: Re: Cost Differences???
Date: 6 Oct 92 21:43:36 GMT
	<13385@texsun.Central.Sun.COM> <1992Oct06.180144.2780@srg.srg.af.mil>
Organization: University of Utah

In article <1992Oct06.180144.2780@srg.srg.af.mil> schan@birch.srg.af.mil (Stephen Chan x4485) writes:
	   Some traditional teachers are willing to take challenges - so if you
   doubt that it works, you can test it for yourself. If they lose, then maybe
   they're charlatans - they win, then maybe they *do* know something you don't.
	   In fact, I understand that when MA wasn't such a mainstream pastime,
   folks had to prove their ability in combat before opening a school. The
   Kuoshu tournament which was mentioned on this newsgroup is something from the
   "old days" when schools proved their martial ability by beating up on each
   other.

	There is a subtle distinction between Stephen's first and
second paragraphs that I missed on the first reading: Judging the
performance of an individual, and judging the performance of a school.
Which is more likely to give you the information you seek?

	Even if an instructor can take all comers, he (or she) may not
be able to train students well.  I think many of us have seen people
who are superb fighters, but cannot impart their knowledge well to
others.  Sometimes, their only "teaching method" is to beat the living
shit out of their students.  In most cases, a dojo headed by such a
person will be strong only as long as the teacher is strong.

	A good teacher must have good technique, since technique is
one of the teacher's basic tools.  It is not necessary to be a top
notch competitor in order to teach well, though.  Some of the best
teachers are frail old men who could not last in an all-out match
against a younger, top-level fighter.  Still, their lessons can
improve the younger fighters.

	Of course, this is why the great old teachers never have to
accept direct challenges: Nobody ever makes it past their students.

--
jonathan byrd
jon@apollo.med.utah.edu
From: dwarf@lusty.tamu.edu (J. A.Shoemaker)
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
Subject: Re: (what should I carry ?)
Date: 30 Sep 92 18:59:19 GMT
Article-I.D.: tamsun.1992Sep30.185919.29955
Organization: Taxes A&M

In article <MARY.92Sep29183255@martinique.Cayman.COM> mary@Cayman.COM (Mary Malmros) writes:
>   While we're on the subject, how well do people think a pool cue would
>   work in a sword or short staff set? (Yes, I know a sword has a sharp
>   edge and point which a pool cue lacks, but similar techniques might 
>   still be effective...)
>My conclusion is that it wouldn't work well for staff techniques.  
>A standard pool cue (is there such a thing?) probably most closely
>resembles a jo, but it's still about six inches too long...which is
>long enough that you couldn't just pick it up and use it, you'd have
>to practice with it to get used to the difference.  It might be also
>just a little too long for some jo techniques (particularly thinking
>of reverses here).  But more than that, a pool cue is strongly weighted
>toward one end.  You notice this "endedness" immediately...it has a 
>very strong effect.  The feel and behavior is very different from that
>of a staff, which is evenly balanced.  One end swings too easy, the other
>end swings too hard...it really throws you off, because in staff styles
>both ends swing the same, and so you don't have to worry about what 
>end of the staff you're swinging.  I didn't try very hard...there
>are people called "bouncers" who roam pool halls on the lookout for
>people swinging pool cues...but it seems to me that standard staff
>techniques just wouldn't work with a pool cue.  If I had to use one,
>I'd try striking with the light end and go to end it with a single hit, 
>or just swing it like a baseball bat.

    Pool cues work great if you know how to modify them a bit.
    If you have a break down cue, the butt end works fine by itself 
    as just a baton (Which works well as a sword because a sword is just 
    a baton with a cutting edge..)
    To modufy a normal cue, just break it in half. Now most places
    will frown on this so you can handle it a bit differently.
    To use the full length as a baton, you will need to fight with the
    weighted end and hold the tip end up near your arm pit for full
    whirlwind swinging. You can go to a double hand block easily and
    single hand strikes work well from this...


			The Evil Dwarf from Hell
What do I know, after 12 years of Martial Arts I am still a white belt.
dwarf@lusty.tamu.edu 

ps. I spend almost as much time in pool halls as I do training.
From: rwalton@tehmi.next.com (Robert Walton)
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
Subject: Looking for good Aikido or Hapkido Dojo
Date: 30 Sep 92 18:01:17 GMT

I'm located in Redwood City, California.  I'm looking for a good, solid  
training experience, with a strong emphasis on techniques and application  
rather than spiritual centering.  Are there any dojos on the peninsula  
that someone can recommend which fit these criteria?

If not, can anyone recommend a good Hapkido dojo in the same area?

Thanks in advance for the e-amil to robert_walton@next.com
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
From: stave@apollo.hp.com (Joel H. Stave)
Subject: Re: Protocol & instructors of othr styles
Date: Sat, 3 Oct 1992 14:53:42 GMT
Reply-To: stave@apollo.hp.com (Joel H. Stave)
Organization: Hewlett-Packard Apollo Division - Chelmsford, MA

In article <1992Oct2.164542.2742@mtroyal.ab.ca>, mtambay@mtroyal.ab.ca writes:
|> 
|> How do you address the instructor from another style in open style
tournaments.
|> Assume no grudge or adulation.  And, what are the titles of instructors in
|> TKD, HKD, Aikdo or Jujitsu?
|> 
|> Thanks for your time
|> 
|> Mario Tambay

"Sir" or "Ma'am" has always worked for me.

Joel Stave
stave@apollo.hp.com
From: robinson@cogsci.Berkeley.EDU (Michael Robinson)
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
Subject: Re: On Explaining Aikido
Date: 2 Oct 1992 20:10:56 GMT
Organization: Institute of Cognitive Studies, U.C. Berkeley
NNTP-Posting-Host: cogsci.berkeley.edu

In article <1992Oct1.164157.14905@ucsu.Colorado.EDU> fcrary@ucsu.Colorado.EDU (Frank Crary) writes:
>I really have trouble understanding attitudes like that: I first learned
>taiji and bagua from a man who was quite religious (christian, I think 
>Catholic) in a quiet sort of way.

One of my classmates when I first started T'ai Chi was an ordained Catholic
priest.  T'ai Chi was pretty mainstream compared to some of his beliefs and
practices.

(The bit about the naked priests in the woods practicing Shamanistic rituals
 was a bit weird even for me...)

So, I guess it just goes to show that religion, like everything else, is
widely variable.



-- 
  ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
  Michael Robinson                          UUCP:   ucbvax!cogsci!robinson
                                        INTERNET: robinson@cogsci.berkeley.edu
Organization: Freshman, MCS general, Carnegie Mellon, Pittsburgh, PA
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
Date: Thu,  1 Oct 1992 18:32:33 -0400 
From: Peter Jason Ward <pw2j+@andrew.cmu.edu>
Subject: Re: cane techniques

My si-gung in Albuquerque taught escrima, and was able to manipulate
cane fighting into it for sone of the elderly or disabled students.  
Escrima readily adapts itself to cane fighting.
                                                           Peter Ward
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts,rec.arts.tv