HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: mike@gordian.com (Michael A. Thomas)
Subject: Re: Northern Exposure
Organization: Gordian; Costa Mesa, CA
Date: Fri, 8 Jan 1993 22:58:41 GMT

In article <1993Jan8.205848.8834@HQ.Ileaf.COM>, jontom@HQ.Ileaf.COM (J.T. Kittredge) writes:
> It defies my credulity that "Northern Exposure" meant seriously to
> promote the idea that gay men are peculiarly adapted to being
> achaelogists. I think it's unlikely that American public will accept
> it in that light. On the other hand -- maybe that's not such a bad
> idea anyway.

  Actually this seems to be a common motif of NE; one that I think
is a rather intriguing technique. Clearly, the producers are aware
that Minnifield's comments are bigoted and (mostly) stereotyping.
This pervades not only the gay episodes, but as JonTom mentions
other minorities too. I especially liked the episode where he
found out he had a Korean son.
  However, they always let the remarks pass. There is never confrontation
in that scene. On the surface it might seem that producers are letting
the stereotype pass and it's a cheap shot. But is it? I don't think
so because the motif in the rest of the show is devoted to setting
up a scenario which shows Maurice to be the bigotted idiot he is. 
  I guess that this technique is nothing more than the technique
used in fables, but it comes off far better then just stupid and
mundane moralizing which is what most of your run of the mill shows 
do. At least you have to think about it a bit rather than just getting
preached at.
-- 

		Michael Thomas	(mike@gordian.com)
	"I don't think Bambi Eyes will get you that flame thrower..."  
		-- Hobbes to Calvin
		USnail: 20361 Irvine Ave Santa Ana Heights, Ca,	92707-5637
		PaBell: (714) 850-0205 (714) 850-0533 (fax)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: anderson@macc.wisc.edu (Jess Anderson)
Subject: Re: Nominations for best Men's cologne
Organization: Madison Academic Computing Center, UW-Madison
Date: Wed, 6 Jan 93 11:15:52 GMT

If an earlier response to this got out, sorry.
The curse of the trailing blank and a brief lapse
of the finger combined to make a mess.

In article <1993Jan6.080246.11207@psych.toronto.edu>
bill@psych.toronto.edu (Bill Pusztai) writes:

>In article <1993Jan6.035226.19616@macc.wisc.edu>
>anderson@macc.wisc.edu (Jess Anderson) writes:
 
>/One day, I dunno for what reason, I asked him if he
>/could compound something that smelled like me [...and
>/he did...] so I can tell you I have a small vial named
>/"Jess, very concentrated stuff.  But better yet, I have
>/the recipe.
>     ^^^^^^

>Could you be talked into *sharing* ? I've always
>wondered how one would compound a person's scent.

Sorry, not even when I'm dead.

As for knowing how, that is, being able to tell what
components to use, that I *couldn't* do; it's a talent I
simply don't have.

Lest anyone wonder, I count myself a connoisseur of armpits
and other skin-fold areas (my favorite euphemism),
smell-wise as well as otherwise.

-- 
[Jess Anderson <> Madison Academic Computing Center <> University of Wisconsin]
[Internet: anderson@macc.wisc.edu <-best, UUCP:{}!uwvax!macc.wisc.edu!anderson]
[Room 3130 <> 1210 West Dayton Street / Madison WI 53706 <> Phone 608/262-5888]
[---------> Discrimination, Bigotry, and Hate are not Family Values <---------]
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: jontom@HQ.Ileaf.COM (J.T. Kittredge)
Subject: Re: Northern Exposure
In-reply-to: rizzoe@FASECON.ECON.NYU.EDU's message of 7 Jan 93 22:46:16 GMT
Posting-Front-End: GNU Emacs 18.52.65 of Mon Apr 22 1991 on kontrol (berkeley-unix)
Date: Fri, 8 Jan 93 20:58:48 GMT

In article <rizzoe.642.726446776@FASECON.ECON.NYU.EDU> rizzoe@FASECON.ECON.NYU.EDU (Emily Rizzo) writes:

>In the most recent episode of Northern Exposure, one of the regulars,
>Maurice, who is a total bigot (this is a major part of his
>character), hires two gay archaeologists to excavate some Indian
>artifacts.  He then makes the following comment to another character,
>Maggie, who *doesn't* pick up on it:

>    You know, Maggie, fairies are the perfect people to do this kind
>    of work.  Biologically, their upper bodies are strong enough to
>    wield a pick-axe, but temperamentally they're, uh -- precise and
>    meticulous.

>Now, the show has a reputation for being very gay friendly (I believe
>it even won some kind of award) but I took exception to the fact that
>this comment was allowed to pass (in other episodes, Maurice has been
>called to account for racist or chauvinist comments).

I wish I had seen this episode. It sounds like this is all of a piece
with similarly clueless statements Minnifield has made to Fleishman's
face about Jews. I seem to remember him commenting in the same vein to
Bernard (Chris's black half brother) about blacks and Africans. In
these comments he always means to be complimentary, in his own
ignorant way.

In none of these cases was Minnifield called on his comments, I assume
because they were thought to be so patently absurd as to not require
rebuttal. 

It defies my credulity that "Northern Exposure" meant seriously to
promote the idea that gay men are peculiarly adapted to being
achaelogists. I think it's unlikely that American public will accept
it in that light. On the other hand -- maybe that's not such a bad
idea anyway.

Yours in Motss, JonTom

-- 
"I feel, my dear boy, my arm around you. I feel the pulsation,
 thereby, as it were, of your excellent future and your admirable
 endowment" -- Henry James to his protoge' Henrik Anderson
               (as quoted by Fred Kaplan)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: tim@ear-ache.mit.edu (Tim Wilson)
Subject: Re: tearoom sex and bathroom police
Organization: Massachusetts Institute of Technology
Distribution: soc
Date: Wed, 13 Jan 1993 00:29:19 GMT

A correspondent writes:

   In article <TIM.93Jan11064708@ear-ache.mit.edu> you write:
   >Here at MIT there is currently an ongoing brouhaha regarding tearoom
   >sex.  The campus police are engaging both visible and undercover
   >operatives in an attempt to shut down one of the more established
   >tearooms on campus (and in Boston).  The operation seemed to begin
   >after the publication in _The Tech_ (the "traditional" campus paper)
   >of a letter complaining about fear of going to the bathroom, spoo on
   >the floor, etc. 

   I had heard through the grapevine that 4-266 had been turned into a
   women's rest room; was this true?  If so, what bathroom have the CPs
   been targeting?  1-101?

I'd call 4-266 the primary target.

   >
   >I got involved in the discussion once someone described those who
   >had tearoom sex as scumbags.  I wanted them to know that this
   >discussion involved real people. 
   >

   Of course it does.  But your average fresh-out-of-the-closet MIT
   queerboy probably hasn't tried it and discovered the wonders of a lazy
   Sunday afternoon spend jerking off in a main campus bathroom.  As a
   freshman, I didn't even *believe* the people who told me that guys had
   sex in 4-266.

   And where will all the poor closeted Fratboys go?  Or the frustrated
   teens? I'll never forget the blue-eyed 17 year old I found in 4-266
   one Sunday morning, he claimed his father was a professor; or when I
   was in Cambridge on business the year after I graduated; the Pi Lam
   sophomore I brought back to my hotel room (Marriot, Kendall Square).

Fratboys?  You're kidding!

   Boston doesn't have any bathhouses or j/o clubs; in the age of AIDS
   bathhouses and sex clubs are only good when the visitors can practice
   strictly safe sex.  The MIT tearooms were a logical outlet for a often
   very sexually frustrated student body.

And their fans.

I'm not sure of the J/O club status.  One J/O party was raided.
I don't think Boston has any more peepshows, either.  The Combat Zone
is closing down.  In the summer, there's the Blue Hills.  Or the Bird
Sanctuary. (I'll admit the Bird Sanctuary reminds me of Steve Dyer's
description of the Harvard Science Center tearoom, and it's out of
doors!) 

   Let's face it; the action will move somewhere, the CPs will get tired
   of chasing it down; and things will probably go back to normal.

   Thanks for bringing back fond memories of my wasted youth :-)

Glad to oblige.  Thanks for letting me share your note.

--
Tim Wilson
Internet:  tim@ear-ache.mit.edu	
UUCP:  mit-eddie!mit-athena!tim
Bad Colorado.  No business.
From: mickw@autodesk.com (Mick Washbrook)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: Bob Paris
Date: 7 Jan 93 21:10:30 GMT

In article <18321@autodesk.COM>, randyc@autodesk.com (Randy Clark) writes:
> 
> 	Not that I'm a Paris fan, any old how.

Me neither. And how he could take up with that simply *dreadful*
blond bubble-butted surfer dude Rod is beyond me. Yes, he has
pecs for days, but really...!

Was that an apoplectic cry I heard from Apple just now?





--
Death to all fanatics!!

Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the law.
From: joe@spdcc.com (Joseph Francis)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: Nominations for best Men's cologne
Date: 6 Jan 93 10:15:48 GMT
Article-I.D.: spdcc.1993Jan6.101548.3984
Organization: S.P. Dyer Computer Consulting, Cambridge MA

In article <1993Jan5.225600.25862@spdcc.com> dyer@spdcc.com (Steve Dyer) writes:
>Will it sound like "I had no idea there were so many soap users here"
>if I say "I had no idea there were so many cologne wearers here"?

I don't wear Jicky, but I like it worn by others occasionally. I don't
know if everyone who posted wears what they like...
-- 
US Jojo; damp, slighly soiled, but tasty nonetheless.
From: anthropo@carina.unm.edu (Dominick V. Zurlo)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: race based fetishes
Date: 11 Jan 1993 19:34:21 GMT
Organization: University of New Mexico, Albuquerque
NNTP-Posting-Host: carina.unm.edu

I'm probably going to regret getting into this, but here I go anyway...

While I don't wnat to downplay the feelings of being objectified and
desired because of one's ethnic background, I think there is a big
difference between one's preferences and one's prejudices (bigotry).

For example, I prefer men with darker skin, but not black skinned.  
WHy, because this is what I grew up with, and it is what has been 
impressed upon me that this is the more ideal "shade" for me to 
pair up with.  However, that doesn't mean I am not attracted to 
people with either white skin or black skin.  In fact,in practice,
it is just the opposite.  While many of the people I have dated/
slept with have been of a more "dusky" appearance, it seems that 
people still assume I prefer "white" over other shades because they 
percieve me to be white.  Wrong!  I am Italian, and have only a slight
olive tone to my skin, and am often mistaken for caucasian, however, 
I am no more caucasian than my Castillian Hispanic friends who classify
me as such.  One friend, rey, is Castillian, and whiter than a ghost.
My first lover is Hispanic, but not Castillian, and has fairly "naturally-
tanned" skin.  I don't find Rey attractive sexually, but I still find 
my ex very attractive (as a friend as well, FYI).  I have dated people
of all colors, with the exception of Asian-American, most likely due to 
the fact that in New Mexico there aren't very many Orientals around.  
ALthough, while in High School, I did date a female friend who was 
Hindu and had very dark skin, that I found very attractive, although, 
her being a woman didn't turn me on sexually.  

As it turns out, my lover has very white skin, but that doesn't stop me
from loving him.  My preference remains.  

I think the distinguishing line between one having a preference and 
a prejudice in this case is when you stop looking past your
physical preferences to see others who may not fit immediately into 
them.  In other words, when you reject people for not fitting your 
imagined mold.  

You could say I'm attracted to Hispanic men as a race, but I'm not, I'm
attracted to the features.  Features which tend to be apparent in many
different "races" from Italian to Hispanic to Arabic (I find many Turkish
men, for example, very attractive) to African to caucasian.  For me, I'm
much more attracted by attitude, intelligence, and emotions.


******************************************************************
*  Flapjack                         *    "Yes, I'm bi, -         *
*  B7/8 f+ w (c+d)v g++ k+(+)v
*             s(-/+)v m e r(=)      *     both top and bottom."  *
*******************************************************************
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: prufrock@leland.Stanford.EDU (Scot N Gibson)
Subject: Re: Southern Etiquette (was Bar Etiquette)
Organization: DSG, Stanford University, CA 94305, USA
Date: Sun, 10 Jan 93 11:21:58 GMT

In article <726662842snx@drummond.demon.co.uk> john@drummond.demon.co.uk writes:
>In article <C0Jx50.904@hpuerca.atl.hp.com> mhr@hpuerca.atl.hp.com (Mike Reaser) writes:
>
>> In the more genteel parts of the world, gravy is what Jeff described:
>> you _start_ with a rue, add milk and/or cream, simmer until thickened,
>> then serve on breads or meats.
>
>Aha!  All is revealed.  In fact, it's just white sauce.
>You eat it with cauliflower.  School dinner food.

Well, no one from my neck of the Deep South (Mississippi) would ever
call anything gravy that wasn't made from the juices from some meat or
other.  And I have usually heard a distinction made between milk (or
white) gravy and reg'lar gravy.

--scoT

-- 
 ______  | Scot N. Gibson  | "At times, indeed, almost ridiculous-- |
 \    /  | Stanford Univ.  |  Almost, at times, the Fool."          |
  \  /   +-----------------+-------------+             - T.S. Eliot |
   \/    | prufrock@leland.stanford.edu  |--------------------------+
From: nelson@reed.edu (Nelson Minar)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: Wedding bands (was: Should I be doing this?)
Date: 12 Jan 93 10:45:07 GMT
Article-I.D.: reed.1993Jan12.104507.4928
Reply-To: nelson@reed.edu (Nelson Minar)
Organization: Reed College, Portland, OR

I've given up trying to follow wedding-band like objects. There are
too many married men in America who don't wear them, and too many gay
men in America who *do* wear them. I'd wager 75% of the men at the
Briar Patch (gay bar, most people there are over 40) were wearing some
sort of ring on their left ring finger, usually something a little too
garish to be a wedding band. (Can a man wear a stone in a wedding ring?)
Now of course 75% of the men could have been married, but I doubt it.

On the other hand, our friends in Europe seem to confuse matters
entirely. I discovered post-cruise that Norweigan men wear wedding
rings on their right hands. (Damn!). Most British men don't wear
wedding bands at all?

I wish ever gay man just wore a big sign that said "I'm a fag".
		__
nelson@reed.edu \/       This is the time, and this is the record of the time
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: manz@ee.ualberta.ca (Brett {Druid Queen} Manz)
Subject: Re: Nominations for best Men's cologne
Organization: University Of Alberta, Edmonton Canada
Date: Wed, 6 Jan 1993 12:38:57 GMT

In <1993Jan5.235514.7783@rigel.econ.uga.edu> hughes@dogwood.botany.uga.edu (Wayne Hughes) writes:

>In article <1993Jan5.225600.25862@spdcc.com> dyer@spdcc.com (Steve Dyer) writes:
>>Will it sound like "I had no idea there were so many soap users here"
>>if I say "I had no idea there were so many cologne wearers here"?
>>
>  Frightening, is it?
>  Actually, for very specific reasons, I would not *dare* wear
>  a cologne.  I've never worn a cologne.

I rarely wear one.  I've only ever found one that I like and 
doesn't turn mr into a mucous factory (Drakkar.)  

>  How does the absence of one strike people?  Just boring?  Or

It rarely strikes me at all.

>  do natural odors (er, fragrances) come through even over a
>  daily bathing routine?

Most definitely.  Everybody has their own distinctive odour,
whether natural or from a commonly used fragrance.  I recall
one man I knew a while ago who's odour (natural) drove me
into fits of hormonal frenzy every time he walked past me.
There are some people I know with smells distinctive enough
that I can tell if they are, or have recently been, in
a room (some of them from quite a distance!)

>  Glenn always tells me I smell like Wayne Hughes.  I never know
>  quite how to take this, and he just smiles. 

If he's smiling then I suspect you should take it as a compliment. :)



-- 
---------------------------------+-------------------------------------
 My opinions are my own.         |  You can't be proud of who you are
 The truth belongs to everyone.  |  if you're ashamed of what you are.
   I can't even *think straight! |    Cruise Men, Not Missiles! - anon
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: fjvwing@cs.vu.nl (FJ!!)
Subject: Re: Posting Styles
Organization: Fac. Wiskunde & Informatica, VU, Amsterdam
Date: Mon, 4 Jan 1993 14:03:01 GMT

(I was looking outside at the grey freezing, and then this popped up to
trigger a couple of smiling neurons.)

anderson@macc.wisc.edu (Jess Anderson) writes:
>Perhaps when the daffodils are in bloom.

Some Daffodils always seem to be so..

						FJ!! (don't worry, I'll
						explain this later)
From: richard@Apple.COM (a flying squirrel)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: race based fetishes
Date: 7 Jan 93 17:40:18 GMT
Organization: Xiola Blue

cjlee@netcom.com (Caroline Jean Lee) writes:

>And yes, I think those fetishes are racist.  I have found it very
>dehumanizing and hurtful to interact with men with Asian fetishes,
> [...]
>Since I came out, it's happened that I have only slept with Asian
>women and only fooled around with other women of color.  Fortunately,
>although some women do have Asian fetishes, it's overwhelmingly a male
>thing. (White women tend to be into/appropriate Native American
>culture and women instead). Were I to become involved with a white
>woman, though, I would have to ask myself the same questions Tigua is

I guess I am a clueless fuck.  First you call it a "fetish" when other
people are attracted to you, and then state you have only slept with
other Asians.  Of course, _you_ don't have a fetish, right?  By that
same logic, my "fetish" for big cocks doesn't really exist since I
have one myself.  Only the average or underendowed can be size queens.

Am I reading your posting correctly, Caroline?
-- 
a flying squirrel is: richard@apple.com  Apple Computer Inc.

"Sex is a filter, and it admits a certain vision."  - William S. Burroughs
From: nelson@reed.edu (Nelson Minar)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: Why not cure homosexuality?
Date: 7 Jan 93 20:20:14 GMT
Article-I.D.: reed.1993Jan7.202014.27855
Reply-To: nelson@reed.edu (Nelson Minar)
Organization: Reed College, Portland, OR

When did Edward Kennedy become "The.Avenger"? Not "The Avenger", mind
you, but "The.Avenger".

For that matter, what the heck is he avenging? His own frustrations?

ObMotss - it's good to be back home in Portland, where I really am
more comfortable. I realized it when I walked into our student union,
and there was Sven, and I gave him a friendly head rub and a hug.
                __
nelson@reed.edu \/    All that God wanted to be was just another normal deity
From: rjwill6@pbsdts.sdcrc.pacbell.com (Rod Williams)
Subject: Year of the Queer
Originator: rjwill6@pbsdts.sdcrc.pacbell.com
Organization: Pacific * Bell, San Ramon, California
Date: Tue, 5 Jan 1993 22:00:48 GMT


Some Queer News from Queer Central...

There's a major brouhaha (a word I love to have opportunity
to use!) here in San Francisco over the decision of the
Lesbian & Gay Freedom Day Parade Committee to adopt "Year of
the Queer" as the theme of this year's parade.  The local
papers have been full of angry and distressed letters
claiming that this nomenclature is excluding at the very
least an entire generation of gay men and lesbians, and
equally angry and distressed letters claiming that those
who object to the Q-word are whining, assimilationist closet
cases.

Much more serious, in my estimation, was the decision to
change the date of the parade from the traditional 4th
Sunday in June (commemorating the Stonewall Riots) to the
3rd Sunday, thereby coinciding with parades in Los Angeles
and other California venues.  But someone just told me
that the uproar over this was enough to force the committee
to change its mind again and revert to the 4th Sunday (June
27, this year)...

And this year, San Francisco's Parade will assemble in Civic
Center Plaza (outside City Hall) and process down Market
Street to end at the Ferry Building, reversing the direction
of most previous years.  This is to take advantage of the
vast expanses opened up around the Ferry Building by last
year's demolition of the quake-weakened Embarcadero Freeway.
-- 
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
rod williams -=- pacific bell -=- san ramon, ca -=- rjwill6@pacbell.com
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: dbailey@cix.compulink.co.uk (Diane Bailey)
Subject: Re: PP: New EC Commissioner
Reply-To: dbailey@cix.compulink.co.uk
Date: Sat, 9 Jan 1993 14:36:00 +0000


I wrote in my original story for the Pink:
>     "He's what we term in Ireland a 'cute whore'," says Ms
>Byrne.  "He'd talk the hind legs off a donkey and tries to charm
>all women journalists.  Slimy and greasy would be my
>description."

Eamonn <emcmanus@gr.osf.org> replied:
> In fact the term is more usually rendered "cute hoor", the connection
> to the more usual meaning and pronunciation of "whore" being minimal.
> If anything it usually expresses a certain grudging admiration for
> unscrupulous cunning.  It's certainly not incompatible with finding
> someone slimy, though.

Thank god the subs removed the phrase as they cut the length!  In future
I will query the spelling of these wonderful Irish phrases!

Thanks Eamonn.

The article is the front page lead of this week's issue.

Diane


The Pink Paper - The UK National Newspaper for Lesbians and Gay Men
"128,960 readers nationwide"
From: ST402341@brownvm.brown.edu (Gary Byma)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: Another Group Joins Boycott
Date: Sun, 10 Jan 1993 21:18:05 EST
Organization: Brown University - Providence, Rhode Island  USA
NNTP-Posting-Host: brownvm.brown.edu
News-Software: BNN via BNN_POST v1.0 beta

In article <1993Jan11.002500.28575@dvorak.amd.com>,
tdbear@dvorak.amd.com  (Thomas D. Barrett) writes:
>
>[...]              If your
>company offers such weekends, you might want to ask the person
>in-charge to at least look into Utah, Wyoming, California, or even
>Canada (the last one might be more interesting to those never having
>been out of the country).
>
And let's not forget Idaho and Montana which have some great powder
basins: Sweitzer Basin and Sun Valley, Idaho, Big Sky and Big Mountain,
Montana. Another area for GREAT powder, is Snow Valley near Fernie, B.C.
which gets in excess of 10 feet of snow on the upper powder basin!!     |

Gary Byma
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: TMCCART3@ua1vm.ua.edu (Tracey McCartney)
Subject: Northern Exposure again
Organization: Home of the @&#^%$* Crimson Tide
Date: Tue, 12 Jan 1993 16:18:32 GMT

Did anyone catch "Northern Exposure" last night? Chris entered a
monastery and began having homoerotic dreams about "Brother Simon."
Brother Simon turned out to be a woman, but it was interesting
nonetheless...
 
And I know why Maggie's boyfriends keep croaking. All would be right
with the cosmos, as Chris might say, if she would just settle down
with the right woman...
 
Tracey
 
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: tdbear@dvorak.amd.com (Thomas D. Barrett)
Subject: Re: Identifying soc.motssers at the MOW
Organization: Advanced Micro Devices, Inc.; Austin, Texas
Date: Tue, 12 Jan 93 15:56:22 GMT

In article <1993Jan11.210020.15526@bmers145.bnr.ca> jfile@bnr.ca writes:
>Myself, never having been to a motss con, wouldn't know a motsser if I 
>tripped over one.  Anyone have any ideas?

Look for some of us to be wearing propellor beenies and walking with
National Organization of Gay and Lesbian Scientists and Technical
Professional (aka NOGLSTP) signs/banners :)


-- 
|Tom Barrett (TDBear), Sr. Engineer|tom.barrett@amd.com|v:512-462-6856 |
|AMD PCD MS-520 | 5900 E. Ben White|Austin, TX  78741  |f:512-462-5155 |
|"No is yes, And we're all free" ---Tracy Chapman, "Why?"              |
|My views are my own and may not be the same as the company of origin  |