From: EUCLID@vmd.cso.uiuc.edu
Subject: Re: Victimization and revenge (was Re: Merry Christmas Ashers!)
Organization: C.C.S.O.
Date: Tue, 25 Aug 1992 22:34:48 GMT

In article <1992Aug25.000305.1@amherst.edu>
akcobb@amherst.edu writes:
 
>
>In article <1992Aug20.073408.19438@leland.Stanford.EDU>, underdog@leland.Stanford.EDU (Dwight Joe) writes:
>> In article <1992Aug19.203535.23894@udel.edu> awatson@pecan.cns.udel.edu
>> (angela watson) writes:
>>>...
>> Because revenge assumes that someone bears total blame for something.
           ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~not necessarily.
 
>> That is _never_ the case.  Life is far too complicated to say that
>> someone, even the worst person, bears total blame for his actions.
>
>> "Unpleasant" people (i.e. people who screwed you over, etc.) are, in
>> large part, created by their society.  There is some degree of self-will,
>> but there is never total self-will.  Just ask those adults who were
>> abused as children; one can trace their behavioral disorders back to
>> their childhood.
>
>> Therefore, there is _no_ place for revenge in this life.  There is
>> _no_ justification for revenge.
     Boiled down it seems to be as follows:
   1. revenge assumes perp is responsible for his actions
   2. perp is product of society and therefore not responsible for his actions
   3. therefore revenge is not justified.
 
        "Good" people are under no less an influence than "bad" people, and
  lots of "good" people are tossed lots of crap on a daily basis.  The differ-
  ence twixt the two types is how they choose to respond to a given stimulus.
  One may pity a child molester who was raped or otherwise abused as a child,
  but how does what happened over 10 years ago to him exonerate him from what
  he does today?  It does not.  A good friend of mine was forced to be intimate
  with such a, uh, person, but he spends his time teaching courses in self-
  defense and gun safety, not jumping boys and girls when they leave grammar
  school.  He *chooses* a given way to react, and it is his choice which makes
  *all the difference*.
       But let's say underdog is right.  Folks really can't help themselves.
  Then how does a person choose to refrain from revenge?  Where people can pass
the buck for their actions by pointing to things they experienced, making such
events responsible for what they do rather than themselves, then there
certainly is a place for revenge in the world and it is as justified as the
acts of any rapist.
 
>> So, what should you do?  Walk away from it.  Deal with the pain
>> that you've got, and if you can't deal with it, perhaps its best
>> to just "pack up" and "leave" for the next life.
       This is an option, and some folks take it.  Others choose otherwise.
 
>>
>> But whatever you do, don't screw someone else; otherwise, the
>> vicious cycle--you screw them, they screw someone else, and so on--
>> will never end.  It's a shame that you got screwed, but life isn't
>> fair.  You just have to accept it.
>
>I think there is a big difference between randomly lashing out at the
>whole world, i.e. at "someone else," and having justified rage and
>a want for revenge towards the person/s that hurt you.  *That* type
>of revenge is quite justifiable; it is *needed* for one to emerge
>from a meek powerless victim role.
>
     well said.
   The empowerment is what is needed, though; the revenge is how this is
  expressed (i.e., there are other options, though perhaps not as suitable for
  a given situation).
 
euclid
 
>[Rest deleted]
>
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