HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: jake@bony1.bony.com (Jake Livni)
Subject: Re: BACK TO LIMBAUGH'S SECRET NONAGENDA
Organization: The Department of Redundancy Department
Date: Wed, 12 Aug 92 22:25:16 GMT

In article <EGGERTJ.92Aug11131118@moses.atc.ll.mit.edu> eggertj@atc.ll.mit.edu writes:

>You repeatedly adhere to the list, which I argue is intellectually
>dishonest in the first place.  It targets known cases of Palestinian
>terrorism, while excluding implicitly Israeli terrorism.  Yet you do
>not address the dishonesty of your approach.

It is your approach that is clearly dishonest, Jim.  While PLO actions
over the years have been clearly and explicitly terrorist, you can
only come up with Israeli actions that you describe as "implicitly
terrorism".  In other words, Israelis are terrorists because you feel
they are.  You are simply trying to blur the definition of terrorism
so as to include Israel in it.

[...]

>A universal definition of terrorism is admittedly difficult to
>provide.  

The commonly-accepted view thus holds.  By this view, Israel is not a
terrorist state, as opposed to, say, Iran, Libya, Syria and a few
others.  Your muddling of the issue cannot compare Israel to these
states nor can their actions be compared.  And yet you persist.

>I would say that terrorism involves violence to achieve
>political, rather than military, ends.  

In that case, Desert Storm was one giant terrorist action.  And the
people who protest in front of abortion clinics are terrorists, as are
the police who arrest them.  Your definition is so unusable as to be
ludicrous. 

-- 
Jake Livni  jake@bony1.bony.com               Pat Paulsen for President
American-Occupied New York                    This year he has a real chance!
My opinions only - employer has no opinions.
Xref: sparky talk.politics.mideast:18758 misc.headlines:5676 talk.politics.misc:40281
From: dcs@witsend.tnet.com (D. C. Sessions)
Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast,misc.headlines,talk.politics.misc
Subject: Re: Sledgehammer Tactics
Date: 16 Aug 92 22:15:34 GMT
Organization: Nobody but me -- really
X-Mailer: TMail version 1.03

In <stricher-130892151156@stayman.ocean.fsu.edu>, stricher@masig.fsu.edu (Char Aznabul)  wrote:
# In article <1992Aug13.001658.23915@bony1.bony.com>, jake@bony1.bony.com
# (Jake Livni) wrote:
# 
# > Has the US conducted more military exercises in the past with Saudi
# > Arabia than with Israel?  Why should the Israelis be such poor
# > partners, as compared, say, to the Saudis?
# 
# We train the Saudi pilots. We train their Ground Control Intercept
# operators.
# We train their AWACS people. 

  Much the same can be said for the Israelis.  When a new aircraft
  variant comes down the IAF sends cadre for conversion training to
  Luke AFB outside of Phoenix.

  I understand that there were some VERY interesting moments over the
  Yuma test range when both Israelis and Saudis were training at the
  same time...
---
--- D. C. Sessions                            Speaking for myself ---
--- Note new network address:                    dcs@witsend.uucp ---
--- And if that doesn't work:                dcs@witsend.tnet.com ---
--- There never was any correspondence between my views and SCI's ---
Xref: sparky talk.politics.mideast:18699 soc.culture.jewish:14322
From: backon@vms.huji.ac.il
Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast,soc.culture.jewish
Subject: Re: Advertising on the Net - NOTES FROM A SEALED ROOM
Date: 16 Aug 92 08:16:57 GMT
Distribution: world
Organization: The Hebrew University of Jerusalem

In article <1992Aug14.030242.17476@midway.uchicago.edu>, goer@ellis.uchicago.edu (Richard L. Goerwitz) writes:
> rwerman@vms.huji.ac.il (ROBERT WERMAN) writes:
>>
>>Although I am reluctant to advertise, and particularly to
>>advertise myself on the net...
>
> I guess if you act obsequious and apologetic enough, it's okay
> to perpetrate an egregous violation of netiquette.
>
> --
>
>    -Richard L. Goerwitz              goer%midway@uchicago.bitnet
>    goer@midway.uchicago.edu          rutgers!oddjob!ellis!goer

Not exactly !  The congressional committee overseeing the NSF has recently
changed the noncommercial policy of the NSF backbone. This has also been
discussed in BOARDWATCH magazine.  The NSF backbone and the NREN will be
more commercially-oriented.

In any case, Bob Werman's book has had a strong impact on USENET and electronic
networking so it *is* appropriate for posting.

Josh
backon@VMS.HUJI.AC.IL







Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast
From: horen@rs.com (Jonathan B. Horen)
Subject: Re: BILL CLINTON ON ISRAEL AND THE MIDDLE
Reply-To: horen@rs.com
Organization: Renaissance Software, Inc.
Date: Fri, 21 Aug 1992 13:58:04 PDT

In article 17941@ncrcae.ColumbiaSC.NCR.COM, nabil@ncrcol.ColumbiaSC.NCR.COM (Nabil Idriss) writes:
>>Then overthrow Hussein and take back eastern Palestine.
>
>All this sarcasm is not going to make any difference. Let us wait and see what 
>the future will bring. Remember that you cannot rule by the sword forever.
                        ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Nor by the knife, pistol, plastique, car bomb, etc.
From: arens@ISI.EDU (Yigal Arens)
Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast
Subject: Re: Nettiquette Nonsense
Date: 18 Aug 92 00:00:38 GMT
Organization: USC/Information Sciences Institute
In-reply-to: singer@uwovax.uwo.ca's message of 14 Aug 92 22:40:06 GMT

In article <1992Aug14.184006.1@uwovax.uwo.ca> singer@uwovax.uwo.ca writes:
>
> Criticisms of an author who posts information on a book that is relevant to
> this newsgroup are inane. I regularly receive valuable news about relevant
> publications in other groups, often posted by t author and forwarded by the
> group's administrators. Virtually the same thing.

Too bad you didn't think of making your sentiments known when I was
attacked not so long ago for advertising a videotaped lecture by Noam
Chomsky.  Don't tell me the author/contents have anything to do with
your position on this subject...
--
Yigal Arens   "He seems like an average type of man.  He's not, like, smart.
USC/ISI        I'm not trying to bag on him or anything, but he has the same
arens@isi.edu  mentality I have -- and I'm in the eighth grade."     Vanessa
               Martinez, after VP Quayle's visit to her school-LA Times 5/21
Xref: sparky talk.politics.mideast:18608 soc.culture.arabic:3261
From: gwydion@hal.gnu.ai.mit.edu (Mercenary Programmer)
Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast,soc.culture.arabic
Subject: Re: ISLAMIC WORLD NEWS (7th)
Date: 14 Aug 92 15:35:12 GMT
Followup-To: talk.politics.mideast
Organization: /etc/organization

In article <11154@crackers.clearpoint.com> martillo@stars.clearpoint.com (Joachim Martillo) writes:

>The article represents noone's opinions other than the author's.

I wonder if it even does that.

Basalat Ali Raja.
Organization: Masters student, Information Networking Institute, Carnegie Mellon, Pittsburgh, PA
Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast
Date: Sat, 15 Aug 1992 00:55:52 -0400 
From: Radu Eugen Edelstein <re0x+@andrew.cmu.edu>
Subject: Re: Israeli Loan Guarantees

Brad writes:
 Also, there have been no guarantees, indeed it has been
suggested otherwise, that there will be an end to all future
construction in the occupied territories. I take Bush's move as a
complete and total sell-out of the Palestinians; they are for all
practical purposes "screwed". In my opinion, Bush's only salvation would
be to pressure Israel to change its internal policies as follows:

I say:
It seems more likely you'll have to make these proposals to Bill :-).

Rad
From: egpv29@castle.ed.ac.uk (JHenderson)
Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast
Subject: Re: Lehi and nazies
Date: 18 Aug 92 09:09:00 GMT
Organization: Edinburgh University

In article <4857@blue.cis.pitt.edu.UUCP> rdtst+@pitt.edu (Richard D Thorne) writes:
=>| Just remind us again where and when Krystallnacht took place. How perceptive
=>| do you have to be to figure out in 1941 that the  Nazis were Baddies? How
=>| much of a hypocrite do you have to be to defend LEHI?
=>| 
=>| --
=>| -Jeremy Henderson            |  Anisotropic
=>| 
=>
=>   Just remind us again who was sitting idly allowing Palestinian Arabs
=>  murder Yeshiva students in Hebron.  How much of a hypocrite do you have to
=>  be to defend the British?  

Point out to me again the place in which I have sought to defend the
British record in Palestine.

=>  You are all to willing to accuse LEHI without
=>  even beginning to accept responsibility for the greater wrongs committed by
=>  the British.

In 1941, while Lehi were busy trying to start negotiations with Hitler, the
British were busy fighting him.


-- 
==================================================================
-Jeremy Henderson            |  Une souris verte
 egpv29@castle.ed.ac.uk	     |  Qui courrait dans l'herbe
==================================================================
From: rivk@quads.uchicago.edu (nora gayle rivkis)
Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast
Subject: Re: Israel: Chutzpah at the Negotiating Table
Date: 14 Aug 92 17:12:27 GMT
Reply-To: rivk@midway.uchicago.edu
Distribution: na
Organization: University of Chicago Computing Organizations

In article <10315@sun13.scri.fsu.edu> stricher@masig.fsu.edu (Char Aznabul) writes:
>Alan H. Stein writes
>+ 
>+ In a previous article, stricher@masig.fsu.edu (Char Aznabul) says:
>+ 
>+ >nora gayle rivkis writes
>+ >
>+ >+ I would have them say they will not try to destroy Israel (they wouldn't
>+ >+ succeed anyway) and then back that statement up with both unilateral ac-
>+ >+ tions with respect to terrorism and ironclad treaties restricting mili-
>+ >+ tary action.
>+ >
>+ >Yep, that's clear enough, and sufficient. The details may be problematic,
>+ >tho. Would the "ironclad" treaties concerning military action be  
>applicable
>+ >to Israel as well? Israel has the right to secure borders - but so does
>+ >her neighbors.
>+ >
>+ Since Israel has never had any territorial claims against any of its
>+ neighbors, that's a non-issue as far as Israel is concerned.  It would
>
>Non issue? Would you care to make the claim the Israel WILL NEVER have
>ambitions on her neighbor's land? Nice that you trust the Israeli
>government.

I agree with you, to a point. I don't\ think it's terribly likely that 
Israel will turn territorial -- but I am sufficiently sick of people
trying to tell Israel to just do what its neighbors want and count on
their resultant goodwill for its protection that I am not willing to
ask the Arab countries to rely on Israel's goodwill for theirs. Even
if *I* think it would be enough, I don't have a right to dictate that
*they* have to trust it. The non-agression treaties go both ways, with
the same penalties for violation in either direction. To the people who
are protesting that this is not necessary because Israel would never try
any such thing, if they wouldn't want to in the first place then what
are you losing by promising it?

>Someone else proposed that some Arab states give up territory to Israel
>as gesture of good will. My intial thought was "no way". But on further
>reflection, I think this is a good thing. On one condition.
>
>That the indigenous population be given full citizenship in their new
>country, and that their rights be respected.
>
>Fair enuff, eh?

It certainly is, and I have no problem with this whatsoever.

>K'Char

	-Nora
From: anwar+@cs.cmu.edu (Anwar Mohammed)
Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast
Subject: Adam's Disingenuousness (was Re: ADC Condemns Bigotry and Bias Displayed at Israeli Benefit)
Date: 19 Aug 92 00:58:09 GMT
Organization: School of Computer Science, Carnegie Mellon

In article <1992Aug18.172636.949@das.harvard.edu> adam@endor.uucp (Adam Shostack) writes:
>In article <1992Aug17.200018.16347@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu> wmuhanna@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (Waleed A Muhanna) writes:
>>     Mokhiber said, "We sent letter to CBS demanding a public apology
>>from each of these individuals and an investigation as to whether their
>>respective positions should be terminated.
>
>Why? The comments were not made on the air.  The comments were not
>made at a publicized forum.  They were made at an exclusive
>fund-raiser.  Perhaps these people should apologize to those at the
>fund-rasier.
>
>The suggestion of termination for attending, and speaking at a
>pro-Israel event stinks of blacklisting.  "Are you now, or have you
>ever been, a member of the Zionist Party^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H
>pro-Israel camp?

Adam, you are being incredibly disingenuous here.  If Peter Jennings 
went to an ADC convention and was on record (ie. there are transcripts)
as saying "You can't believe a word a Jew says" or "Jerusalem belongs to 
the Arabs", you can be damn sure that the ADL et al. would be calling 
for heads to roll at ABC news.  (However, I, as part of the "Arab threat
on our campuses",  wouldn't put the ADL above blacklisting.)

Now, I am not taking a position on this matter because of FAIR's 
reputation for distorting news reporting.  However, if you accept that 
Kissinger or Rather said what is alleged, and it wasn't taken out of 
context, etc., then, in fairness, you *must* reconsider your position.

-- 
Anwar Mohammed                           Graduate Student
anwar+@cs.cmu.edu  (NeXTmail welcome)    School of Computer Science
Voice: +1 412 268 3043                   Carnegie-Mellon University
Fax:   +1 412 681 5739                   Pittsburgh, PA  15213-3890
Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast
From: bx573@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Alan H. Stein)
Subject: Re: I'm an Israeli torturer
Reply-To: bx573@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Alan H. Stein)
Organization: Case Western Reserve University, Cleveland, OH (USA)
Date: Wed, 12 Aug 92 15:36:44 GMT


In a previous article, arens@ISI.EDU (Yigal Arens) says:

>In article <1992Aug10.183710.444@vms.huji.ac.il> backon@vms.huji.ac.il writes:
>>
>> I'm an Israeli and I guess if I do what the SHIN BET does, I'm also a brutal
>> torturer. After all, the "torture" of the SHIN BET basically involves an
>> occasional slap across the face to a prisoner. And the kids don't get an
>> occasional slap across the face ? Ergo, I must be a torturer.
>
>I don't get it.

I think that Josh was simply pointing out the transparent absurdity of your
routine anti-Israel posts. 
-- 
bx573@cleveland.freenet.edu----Alan H. Stein----stein@uconnvm.uconn.edu
Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast
From: bx573@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Alan H. Stein)
Subject: Re: Lehi and nazies
Reply-To: bx573@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Alan H. Stein)
Organization: Case Western Reserve University, Cleveland, OH (USA)
Date: Wed, 19 Aug 92 03:05:47 GMT


In a previous article, egpv29@castle.ed.ac.uk (JHenderson) says:

>
>In 1941, while Lehi were busy trying to start negotiations with Hitler, the
>British were busy fighting him.
>
... while, by their illegal restrictions on Jewish immigration into the
land they were committed to reestablish as the Jewish homeland, they
simultaneously helped ease the path for Hitler's efforts against the Jews.
-- 
bx573@cleveland.freenet.edu----Alan H. Stein----stein@uconnvm.uconn.edu
Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast
From: nabil@ncrcol.ColumbiaSC.NCR.COM (Nabil Idriss)
Subject: Re: BILL CLINTON ON ISRAEL AND THE MIDDLE
Organization: NCR E&M Columbia SC.
Date: Fri, 21 Aug 92 16:16:42 GMT

>Then overthrow Hussein and take back eastern Palestine.

All this sarcasm is not going to make any difference. Let us wait and see what 
the future will bring. Remember that you cannot rule by the sword forever.



-- 
Nabil Idriss                           |       FOR EVERY ACTION AN OPPOSITE  
NCR - Midrange Products Division       |       AND EQUAL REACTION.
      Columbia, South Carolina         |      
email: nabil@ncrcol.ColumbiaSC.NCR.COM |
Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast
Subject: Re: BILL CLINTON ON ISRAEL AND THE MIDDLE
From: rivk@quads.uchicago.edu (nora gayle rivkis)
Date: Sat, 22 Aug 1992 22:14:20 GMT
Reply-To: rivk@midway.uchicago.edu
 <1992Aug20.213434.8625@midway.uchicago.edu> <1992Aug22.201949.24775@ncrcae.ColumbiaSC.NCR.COM>
Organization: University of Chicago Computing Organizations

In article <1992Aug22.201949.24775@ncrcae.ColumbiaSC.NCR.COM> nabil@ncrcol.ColumbiaSC.NCR.COM (Nabil Idriss) writes:
>>>International Law? This is a joke. If there is any law in the world
>>>I will be living now with my parents in Haifa.
>>
>>Law does not necessarily equal justice. There's international law,
>>and you're very quick to cite its authority when it's on your side.
>>I'm disgusted with this double standard, Nabil; I thought better of
>>your mind. Whether or not you think the laws are fair, they exist.
>>
>
>Nop, Law means Justice in my definition. Why do people go to courts
>then?

"My words mean what I want 'em to mean; that's what I pay 'em their
wages for."

	-Humpty Dumpty, as written by Lewis Carroll. Slavery was
mandated by law in large areas of the U.S. for quite some time.
People go to court to have their cases decided according to the 
law of the country they are in, when they cannot resolve their
disputes by neogtiation without an outsider dictating what they
must do. Either go talk to a lawyer for a while before you start
spouting off about the definition of law, or acquire a brain.

>>>heard him say the number of the palestinians outside the territory,
>>>that is in all the Arab countries: 1.9 Million.  He said he is not
>>>ready to accept their return. Is this fair? 
>>
>>Yup. Because we own the country now.
>
>You own it now? It looks like you are proud of admitting that it was
>ours and now it is yours. 

No; I'm proud to say it's ours; last people who had it were the
British. You can try to say it *should* be yours all you want,
but to suggest it is currently yours is a denial of reality that
verges on the schizophrenic. Get used to the facts whether or not
you like them -- because they're much easier to fight effectively
that way, if for no other reason.

>Let me tell you something: Life is like a 
>wheel and now you are sitting on top of the wheel and we are at the 
>bottom of it. The wheel will turn one day. If you are nice to us
>today we will remember that tommorow.

I intend to be as nice as possible, consistent with retaining posses-
sion of my country, thank you. But for remembering it tomorrow, we
thought much the same thing would happen with the Germans after more
than a century of enthusiastic Jewish assistance and national partic-
ipation. That worked out rather badly. I am though relying on anybody's
goodwill for my survival.


>Nabil Idriss    

	-Nora


-- 
"Light one candle for those who are suffering pain we learned so long ago..."

Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast
From: nabil@ncrcol.ColumbiaSC.NCR.COM (Nabil Idriss)
Subject: Re: He Who Saves a Single Soul...
Organization: NCR E&M Columbia SC.
Date: Tue, 18 Aug 92 20:44:49 GMT

In article <1992Aug17.140232.19511@rs.com> horen@rs.com writes:
>
>>                     Attention Israel Line Recipients
>>  
>>                         Monday  August 17, 1992
>>  
>>  
>> Peres Approves Israeli Arab Initiative to Bring Yugoslavian Orphans
>> to Israel
>>  
>> Today's AL HAMISHMAR reports that Foreign Minister Shimon Peres
>> yesterday approved the Muslim Rescue Committee's mission to bring
>> orphans from the embattled areas of Bosnia to Israel. In a letter
>> sent to the Muslim Committee, Peres said that he welcomes the
>> initiative of the members of the committee to save children from
>> the war torn areas without regard to religion or nationality. 
> 
>I'm waiting to see which of the Arab media report approval by
>the Foreign Ministers of the Arab League/GCC members to bring
>Jewish orphans from war-torn Bosnia-Herzegovina to their countries.


Why did you emphasize "Arabs" instead of "Moslem" countries? There is 
a lot of them like Pakistan, Iran, Azerbijan, Turkey.You also speak 
like you own the whole land of Palestine. Remember that it belongs to
Arab Moslems as well.     
 
If you think that Saudi Arabia or Kuwait or any of the Gulf States will
bring in any orphans no matter what religion they are, you must be joking.
They are already getting rid of other Arabs. 

-- 
Nabil Idriss                           |       FOR EVERY ACTION AN OPPOSITE  
NCR - Midrange Products Division       |       AND EQUAL REACTION.
      Columbia, South Carolina         |      
email: nabil@ncrcol.ColumbiaSC.NCR.COM |
From: egpv29@castle.ed.ac.uk (JHenderson)
Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast
Subject: Re: Lehi and nazies
Date: 14 Aug 92 10:53:14 GMT
Organization: Edinburgh University

In article <4663@blue.cis.pitt.edu.UUCP> rdtst+@pitt.edu (Richard D Thorne) writes:
=>| The allies did many things during WWII which I beleive were unnecessary
=>| and wrong. However the only scenario in which you can justify an alleged
=>| Jewish nationalist offering to make a pact with the NAZIs is if the
=>| British were worse.
=>| 
=>| 
=>| Phill Hallam-Baker
=>| 
=>
=>    With the aid of hindsight it is clear that the Yishuv's decision to not
=>    fight the British during WWII was a wise one, but that only makes
=>    LEHI wrong not evil.  

Just remind us again where and when Krystallnacht took place. How perceptive
do you have to be to figure out in 1941 that the  Nazis were Baddies? How
much of a hypocrite do you have to be to defend LEHI?

-- 
-Jeremy Henderson            |  Anisotropic
 egpv29@castle.ed.ac.uk	     |  Density tensor!  Truly
       			     |  a wonderous thing.
			     |			(Joe Green)
From: timlee@public.btr.com
Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast
Subject: Iraq Air Force planes that flew to Iran
Date: 22 Aug 92 17:48:03 GMT

So what happened to the Iraq Air Force planes that flew to Iran
during the recent war?  Did Iran just keep them?

--------------------------------------------------------------------
Timothy J. Lee                 timlee@btr.com  ...!decwrl!btr!timlee
This message comes with no warranty, not even an implied warranty of
fitness for any particular purpose.
Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast