HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: ledgerj@ajpo.sei.cmu.edu (Jim Ledger)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.startrek.current
Subject: More Time's Arrow II **SPOILERS**
Date: 29 Sep 92 20:42:26 GMT
Organization: Ada Joint Program Office

Spoilers ahead:











Just thought I'd add a few complaints of my own about a few things (among many)
that bugged me about TAII:

(1) When the gang first explores the cave under the Presidio, Geordi states
    that the whole cave was configured to focus triolic (sp?) energy,
    presumably to facilitate the creation of the time portal. In any case,
    the cave (and its counterpart on Davidia) are represented as important
    to the whole time travel bit. However, we see that, for some reason,
    people entering the portal on Davidia end up on Market St. Why not in
    the cave under the Presidio? After all, people entering the portal on
    Earth end up in the cave on Davidia. Did I miss something?

(2) When the aliens are caught in the hospital, they just wink out to avoid
    capture. Did they go back to Davidia? If so, it seems they don't need
    the Presidio cave to move through time. If not, then what happens? Do
    they become invisible? Do they shift out of phase? If they have this
    capability, why bother with disguises (how do they manage to appear human
    anyway?) -- why not just remain invisible/out of phase, until they're
    ready to snatch somebody?


I guess my point is that it seems as if the cave under the Presidio doesn't
really justify itself in the story, except as the final resting place for
Data's head -- I can't think of any explanation that isn't just hand-waving
to cover other plot conveniences. I had the same trouble with a number of other
seemingly minor details. When I add them all up, the net result is
disappointment that the story was so weak. TAI provided the potential for a
great story -- the first glimpse of the aliens was very eerie, and quite
unlike any previous encounter on TNG. Unfortunately, for me TAII copped out
and delivered a standard evil creature-feature, not worthy of a two-part
season-ending cliffhanger. Ah well.


Jim
Newsgroups: rec.arts.startrek.current
From: zzekka@unislc.uucp (Zeke Zecca)
Subject: Re: TNG Grade Report: "Time's Arrow II"
Reply-To: zzekka@unislc.UUCP (Zeke Zecca,B2C10,4827)
Organization: Unisys, Salt Lake City
Date: Mon, 28 Sep 1992 23:38:59 GMT

In article <rawdon.717625324@cs.wisc.edu> rawdon@colby.cs.wisc.edu writes:
>He's baaa-aaack...
>
>And yet, it seems like this episode could have gone a long way, had it
>wished, in demonstrating Data's attachment to humanity and desire to be
>human.  Part I had that nice bit where Data said that knowledge of his death
>was comforting, and yet that thread was utterly ignored here (how does he
>feel now, knowing that his head survived in a dusty cave for 500 years, and
>was reattached to his body with a minimum of effort.  Also, we could have had
>a neat exploration of Picard's relationship with Guinan, and yet that too
>was completely glossed over.  It was strongly implied that this escapade was
>the reason behind Picard and Guinan meeting and becoming such good friends
>(and, it seems, that ever-vague "much more"), but nothing we saw here
>demonstrated any of that.  I remain mystified.  And I certainly don't see how
>if Picard had never gone along on the mission that they never would have met.

One interesting twist: In TAI, Guinen had the upper hand in knowing
about the past while Baldy was out in the cold. In TAII, Picard knew
about the future while Guinen did not.

I would have like more character development of the ophidians(sp). We
had this build up of creatures that might destroy all human kind. And
they were quickly dispatched with two punches to the nose and a few
photon torpedos. Just a bit disappointing.

>In both parts there were only two sequences of dialogue I didn't care for.
>First was the Troi/Riker piece in Part I, which was tedious exposition.
>Second, and far worse, was Troi explaining the nature of humanity in the
>24th century to Clemens.  I observed at the time (and I think that the
>parallel is most apt) that that scene seemed like the Trek equivalent of Pat
>Buchanan and Ronald Reagan addressing the Republican convention:  Trying to
>energize the "base of the party", the Trek fandom equivalent of the
>religious right.  Personally, it nauseated me nearly as much as Buchanan did
>last month.

I have to agree. That bit about solving humanity's problems could gag a
magot!

>Overall, I give this one a thumbs up as a lighthearted adventure story, but
>am saddened that it could have been a lot more, and wasn't.  It tastes
>great, but it's less filling.  Not an auspicious start to the season, but
>it's not "The Child" either...
>
>Grade: B-
Newsgroups: rec.arts.startrek.current
From: "bernie wong" <bernie.wong@canrem.com>
Subject: "time's arrow part ii
Reply-To: "bernie wong" <bernie.wong@canrem.com>
Organization: Canada Remote Systems
Distribution: rec
Date: 28 Sep 92 20:39:38 EST


spoilers ahead


>The show was pretty decent overall.  I have one problem with TNG's use of
>time phase shifts.  When Data and the crew left the cave in the 24th century,
>they were all out of phase with the Enterprise.  When the crew returned they
>seemed to pop back into there own phase, supported by the fact that no aliens
>appeared to be in sight.  No one even mentioned anything about this.

I believe the solution is simple.  The gateway that the aliens used
would lead them from the 24th century to the 19th.  If the aliens were
to arrive in earth .004% out of phase with the rest of the humans then
there would be no way to get their energy!  The gateway obviously popped
from .004% to 0 so that they could interact with the humans.

However, this means that when Clemens et al jumped through the portal in
part II, they should have been .004% out of phase, right?  Oh well...
Perhaps it does not work for humans...?


-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
Jason Wong
Calling from Markham, Ontario CANADA.  It's not cold though!  :-)
INTERNET: bernie.wong@canrem.com


 * OLX 2.1 TD * I have an energy wave at 240, mark 6 port.  Valtane
--
Canada Remote Systems  - Toronto, Ontario
World's Largest PCBOARD System - 416-629-7000/629-7044
From: pip@pro-freedom.cts.com (David Pipgras)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.startrek.current
Subject: Re: Mistake in Borg episode
Date: 30 Sep 92 22:01:15 GMT
Article-I.D.: pro-free.1992Sep30.150115.3332
Organization: ProLine [pro-freedom] AppleVan (Apple UG of Vancouver, WA)

In <BvCsIy.3oI@mach1.wlu.ca> roma5507@mach1.wlu.ca (romanko jeffrey) writes:

>: 
>: I have noticed a small error in the episode where the Borg capture and
>: assimilate Capt. Picard.  The first words Picard (as Locutus) says is
>: 	"I am Locutus of Borg...."
>: 
>Perhaps Picard wasn't totally assimilated (if that makes any sense).  The
>Borg did after all say that they wanted a human voice to speak for them
>and therefore may have allowed Picard to retain some of his individuality.
>
>-J


As was pointed out before by someone else on this subject, "Locutus" is
supposed to mean "
(oops)  ..is supposed to mean "speaker" in latin or some other dead
language....

So, this being the case, Picard/Locutus was saying, "I am the speaker of
the Borg.."

Dave
==============================================================
From: billd@informix.com (William Daul)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.startrek.current
Subject: Re: Transporter Psychosis
Date: 5 Oct 92 16:40:44 GMT
Organization: Informix Software, Inc.

They say I am a hypochondriac but I know better...I know
I have an unconfirmed case of TP!!!  :-)
-- 
%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%
 William Daul             Advanced Support      INFORMIX SOFTWARE INC.
 4100 Bohannon Dr.        (415) 926-6488 - wk
 Menlo Park, CA. 94025    uunet!infmx!billd  or  billd@informix.com
Newsgroups: rec.arts.startrek.current
From: jcowling@ophelia.UVic.CA (Scowling Jim Cowling)
Subject: Time's Arrow Paradox [spoilers]
Organization: University of Victoria, Victoria, BC, Canada
Date: Sun, 27 Sep 92 03:03:35 GMT


I just thought of something:  Twain's watch should not exist in the 24th Century
as it would be infinitely old.  Think about it.  He picks up his watch in
the future, where it is 500 years old, then leaves it in the cave.  Therefore,
in the future it must be 1000 years old, then 1500 etc etc.  It's caught in
a time loop where it has no existence after the 24th century, but must
logically have infinite age at all points in its existence directly after 
Clemens' time-travel.

In any case, it's a paradox without solution, and they screwed up.  What do
y'all think?

-------
Scowling Jim Cowling
Creative Writing Department, University of Victoria
-------
Newsgroups: rec.arts.startrek.current
From: ira2p@faraday.clas.Virginia.EDU (Iain Robert Asplin)
Subject: Re: Data's Head and the iron filling mystery
Organization: University of Virginia
Date: Sun, 4 Oct 1992 00:16:09 GMT


Why would Data's head need iron fillings?  His teeth look perfectly normal
to me, and he doesn't eat too much chocolate....
From: dmillar@ocf.berkeley.edu (Derek Millar)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.startrek.current
Subject: Re: Oh my *GOD* .... is it.... *CONTINUITY*?!?!?!?! (Spoilers)
Date: 30 Sep 1992 03:45:06 GMT
Organization: U.C. Berkeley Open Computing Facility
NNTP-Posting-Host: earthquake.berkeley.edu


Just in case:

Nobody seems to have noticed this one yet:

In Best of Both Worlds II, Guinan says (when trying to convince Riker to
function as captain) that her relationship with Picard went "beyond
friendship".

In Time's Arrow II, when Picard meets Guinan in the past, she asks if
they are friends in the future, and Picard says their relationship
"goes beyond friendship."  Exactly the same wording.

Makes one think the writers are going over old scripts.


Derek Millar
Newsgroups: rec.arts.startrek.current
From: haney@ucsu.Colorado.EDU (HANEY PATRICIA J)
Subject: Re: Data and Pinocchio (some musings).
Organization: University of Colorado, Boulder
Date: Fri, 25 Sep 1992 15:18:03 GMT

In article <1992Sep19.223005.2720@newshub.ccs.yorku.ca> tony@nexus.yorku.ca (Anthony Wallis) writes:
>      Just sitting here musing about the imminent Time's Arrow Part 2,
>"Will Earth be saved by Data's ultimate sacrifice ?" (as my TV guide
>teases), Data's head, Data's death(?) ...... and Pinocchio.
>      An interesting plot device would be for Data to sacrifice his
>android existence (and android powers) only.  Some highly advanced entity
>intervenes (not a novel idea in ST) and creates a human body that looks
>like Data (played by Brent Spiner, of course).  Data's consciousness
>is transfered to the new body.

SPOILER MUSINGS...

 




















Somebody quoted Brent Spiner as saying 'he would be without a head for 
next season'. Is he written off? Do we get a new actor with a new face?
My interpretation of this strange, dismaying quote is that Data goes
without a head for 500 yrs then they pop his old head (the one sitting
back in the Enterprise) back on when he catches up. He'll come back
without a head (it's left in the cave) but they've got something to 
reattach.....

Did anyone else remember this quote?

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
^  Trish Haney            ^ haney@ucsu.Colorado.edu   ^  "Do androids        ^
^  Undergrad, CU Boulder  ^   17988 E. Colgate Place  ^   dream of           ^
^   "The Mac Helper"      ^   Aurora, CO 80013-4416   ^   electric sheep?"   ^
^    Beginner help        ^   (303) 766-0696          ^      -Philip K. Dick ^
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Newsgroups: rec.arts.startrek.current
From: jgd@cbnewsd.cb.att.com (Jerome Donovan)
Subject: "Jack" from TAI
Organization: AT&T
Date: Mon, 28 Sep 1992 17:41:56 GMT
Keywords: gay,gay,gay,gay,gay


>>jgd@cbnewsd.cb.att.com (Jerome Donovan) writes:
>
>>Perhaps the character served no purpose other than being Datas helper,
>>but the ACTOR who plaied Jack was VERY pleasent to look at and his 
>>bell-boy uniform was nicely fitted.  This was no accident, just as
>>Dianas costumes aren't so provocative accidently.
>
>>If you've read the Advocate interview with Rick Berman, you know that 
>>straight men aren't the only people who watch the show. 
>
>>	Jerome Donovan nwpel!jgd 708-224-2813

>
>Ha!  I had a nagging suspicion that gay men enjoyed Watched STTNG
>to see the men in those o'so tight uniforms.  I laughed my head
>off reading this post Mr. Donovan.  
>
>I can just imagine it:  "What's so wrong with Wesley.  Dammit if he
>doesn't look good in that grey suit of his.  Ooww, ouch!."
>
>Gives a whole new meaning to the phrase, "make it so."
>
>So.  Any other gay men out there who watch this show.  I'd be very
>interested in knowing what you think of it.  If yer not gay, do ya
>know anyone who is who watches, and what do they think of it?
>
>And what about gay women?  Any out there that watch the show?  I know
>a lot of people who watch it (none of them gay) and each gets some-
>thing differnet from it.  One person watches it cause he likes the
>cool techie toys.  Another cause he likes Troi.  Another cause she
>thinks Picard's a stud.  So I'd get a big kick outta knowing what
>gay people think of the show when they watch it.
>
>Disclaimer:  I am not gay!  But I make no judgements concerning
>people who are.  Please, no boring remarks about "no fags allowed
>to watch this show," or "Dykes suck."  Just reply if you know
>anyone gay who watches StarTrek.
>
>Thank you very much.
>
>Regards,
>
>Charles H. Kim
>
>charlesk@sfu.ca

	Mr. Kim,

	Your contradictions are interesting.  "I laughed my head off"
	and "But I make no judgements". Just what did you find so funny?

	Your disclaimer is what I found funny.Are you so afraid of being
	labeled gay or gay positive just by commenting on a post from
	a gay reader that you feel you must include this?  Your call to
	indentify the gay audiance of STTNG  puzzles me.  

	The fact that the executive producer of the show is himself gay
	(as stated in his Advocate interview) should be enough of a clue
	that plenty of gay, bi, and lesbian folks watch it.  My guess is
	that it is about the same or even higher that the average number
	of gay, bi, and lesbian people in the general population, 
	(estimated to be ten percent)  since the show is relatively 
	gay positive and depicts hope for the future regarding various
	social issues.

	My mention of the actor who plays Jack is just one of the MANY
	things I like about STTNG, but as long as you mention it,
	as a matter of fact, Wesley does look GREAT in his uniform too,
	pretty hot stuff if your asking me.

		Jerome Donovan nwpel!jgd 708-224-2813
From: noel@umbc2.umbc.edu
Newsgroups: rec.arts.startrek.current
Subject: RE: Oracular Revalation of Season Premiere *spoilers*
Date: 28 Sep 92 21:17:29 GMT
Organization: University of Maryland Baltimore County


	This brings up some other problems with that cavern.

	From Clemons' conversation, Data was looking for mines dug in the
1850s, so its entirely possible that the mine was abandoned after 40 years.
The *entrance* is revealed to be around the Presido (any clue to the location 
of Starfleet Academy there?).  I'm guessing a low-ranked person could be
influenced enough by Mark Twain and/or Madame Guinan to let them all in.
	
	The easiest way to write off anyone else entering the cavern for 500
years would be to say the entrance was closed off with the 1906 earthquake. 
Now here are come inconsisties.

1.  What happened to the other stuff in the cavern?  Okay, maybe the wood
turned to dust and the iron corroded.  But what about the brass lanterns and
the glass shades on the lanterns?  All I can assume is that whoever excavated
the cavern thought that stuff was unimportant

2.  Why wasn't there any news about the cavern?  A noted author and prominant
woman in society go down there and the latter comes out injured.  I'd sure like
to investigate that if I was that reporter kid (BTW, wasn't he the half-romulian
medical person from "The Drumhead")


Inquiring minds want to know
Newsgroups: rec.arts.startrek.current
From: phurley@tamu.edu (Philip W. Hurley)
Subject: Re: trek food
Organization: Computer Technology Group, TAEX
Distribution: rec
Date: Tue, 29 Sep 1992 15:02:06 GMT

In article <Bv4MqE.5uz@ux1.cso.uiuc.edu> shadow@ux1.cso.uiuc.edu (the 
shadow knows) writes:

>       And don't forget that vulcan soup nurse chapel had spock 
>hit, and i think jean luc was eating something in a shuttlecraft,
>and also there was the vegetable stew picards kataarian wife made
>(yum)..i wonder what foods they really do eat when shooting

>-Mark

I remember one TOS episode in which Kirk is eating small geometrically 
shaped objects of various colors. I don't remember what the episode was 
about, however.
From: petersm@jacobs.CS.ORST.EDU (Marguerite Petersen)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.startrek.current
Subject: Re: Data's Head and the iron filling mystery
Date: 30 Sep 92 22:53:51 GMT
Organization: Computer Science Outreach Services - Oregon State University

In article <30SEP199213585270@reg.triumf.ca> lahaye@reg.triumf.ca (RAYMOND GABIN , TRIUMF OPERATIONS) writes:

 Spoilers for those who haven't seen TA II.

>	The story was too unbelievable !!! In TA1, Data and LaForge checked 
>out the head, in order to find out if it was Data's or Lore's.  They did not
> find that chunk of iron??? When Geordie reattaches the head on Data's body,
> we see the head cleaned up.  Yet there is still a large piece of iron filling
>( and not a wee bit of microscopic hunk!).  Moeover, does Data's head has its
>own power supply? If not, how could the captain have entered a binary message
>in Data's circuitry ? And I did not think that the captain knew Data's
>circuitry so well.  All in all, the situation just does not make any sense. 
>Very bad script writing!!!

Actually I have two possibilities for why Data didn't find the iron filing
when he first examined his *own* head while on the Enterprise.

1.  I first considered the possibility that Data missed the iron filing
    because he was *more* bothered by the  evidence of his own mortality
    than he revealed to us.  In other words, he did not examine the head
    as critically as he should have because it was his *own* head.   

2.  Someone else (sorry, I forgot who) suggested that perhaps the iron
    filing wasn't there when the head was first examined by Data and
    others because Picard hadn't put it there *yet*.

Who knows just why they didn't see it in the first place.  I just *love*
Time Travel stories!  Just when I think I have it figured out, I
suddenly realize, I don't.  I think I'm getting a *headache*. :-)

Marg
Newsgroups: rec.arts.startrek.current
From: cec35848@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (Chuck Carroll)
Subject: Re: Beta-Zoid Plexing
Organization: University of Illinois at Urbana
Date: Tue, 6 Oct 1992 16:40:16 GMT

>In article <1992Oct5.205120.13113@wuecl.wustl.edu) ac1@cec2.wustl.edu (Anuj Chandra) writes:
>)Plexing is one of weirdest pseduo science ever on ST:NG. Tapping on
>)the artery behind the cortoid (?) nerve in the neck seems to INSTANTANEOUSLY
>)release endorphins that INSANTANEOUSLY has an  effect in calming Barclay.
>)Barcllay looks ridiculous when he taps that stupid nerve.
>)
>)Why shoould betazoid plexing work on a human?

I was of the opinion that it had no effect whatsoever and
Troi was actually using it as a placebo.  One of my roomates
pointed out that if you could release endorphins that way
people would be tapping that artery 24 hours a day 7 days
a week.

-- 
Chuck Carroll					      cec35848@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu
"Counselor Troi, do you sense anything from this 'Stimpy?'"
"I sense extreme stupidity...wait, there's something else...
I feel...Happy Happy Happy, Joy Joy Joy!"
Newsgroups: rec.arts.startrek.current
From: johne@PROBLEM_WITH_INEWS_GATEWAY_FILE (John Eaton)
Subject: Re: Times Arrow II   ** SPOILER **
Date: Tue, 29 Sep 1992 20:37:43 GMT
Organization: Hewlett-Packard VCD
X-Newsreader: Tin 1.1 PL5

Brian Cash (bcash@bnr.ca) wrote:
: 
: 
: 
: 
: 
: 
: 
: 
: 
: 
: 
: 
:
:
: 
: 
: 
: 
: 
: 
: 
: 
: Another interesting note:
: 
: Picard taps a rather long message into Data's head.
: Not bad for someone in a leadership role (not a tech like LaForge)
: 
: Brain /-|-\
: 
:----------------------
Why did he even bother? Guinan was there in the cave and he knew that she
would make it the The BigE intact. Couldn't he have simply asked her to
deliver a message to Riker once he returns from the Past?

When Mark Twain was on the Enterprise why didn't Guinan at least pop over
and say "hi"?

If LaForge could put Data's 500 year old head on his current body
and get it working in 5 minutes then why didn't they decapitate
him in TA#1 and try the same technique. If nothing happens they simply
restore his head otherwise they find out what was to happen.

John Eaton
!hp-vcd!johne



  
Newsgroups: rec.arts.startrek.current
From: cowboy@trans.csuohio.edu (Joe Rosenfeld)
Subject: Re: "Time's Arrow Part II" *SPOilers*
Organization: Cleveland State University
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1 PL6]
Date: Sun, 27 Sep 1992 13:41:28 GMT

John E McNett (jxm@cis.ksu.edu) wrote:
: spoilers ahead
: 
: The show was pretty decent overall.  I have one problem with TNG's use of
: time phase shifts.  When Data and the crew left the cave in the 24th century,
: they were all out of phase with the Enterprise.  When the crew returned they
: seemed to pop back into there own phase, supported by the fact that no aliens
: appeared to be in sight.  No one even mentioned anything about this.
: 

Well, they were originally out of phase because they were operating
special equipment designed to prduce the change.  No doubt it was no
longer operating, not to hard for the Enterprise to do, either remotely or
on site.

: I've tried to come up with a rational explanation for why this would be, but
: it has eluded me so far.  Anybody got a neat way of tying this plot hole up?
: 
: -Erick

--

Cowboy


Newsgroups: rec.arts.startrek.current
From: chil@fraser.sfu.ca (Keith Lim)
Subject: Re: O'Brien's Rank [THE FINAL ANSWER]
Organization: Simon Fraser University, Burnaby, B.C., Canada
Distribution: na
Date: Mon, 5 Oct 1992 09:53:07 GMT

myempire@mentor.cc.purdue.edu (Matt J. Martin) writes:

>   I think a have an answer that actually makes sense.  If you watch closely, 
>it seems that O'Brian's formers pips were silver, not the normal gold of
>commissioned officers.  So perhaps the enlisted insignia in Star Fleet are
>silver, thus differentiating them from the officers.  

Everybody's pips are the same colour, as far as I can tell. (Sometimes they
look silver, sometimes they look gold. I think they're all silver, though.)

>   He clearly is a chief petty officer.  He has been referred to as a CPO on
>several occasions.

One. ONE occasion. Do you have to exaggerate to make a point!? (It doesn't
help your case, you know.) [Flame off]

As always, the rebuttal: what, then, about the many, MANY times O'Brien has
been seen with two full (Lieutenant) pips, compared to the single instance of
his being called a CPO? [Covering old ground here...sigh.]

-- 
Keith_Lim@sfu.ca   Simon Fraser University, Burnaby B.C., V5A 1S6, Canada
Hon Cog Sci; Min Psyc; Forum; Senate; CDSU; URC; ASC; FARSIDE; LEAD; CCCS
I officially represent each and every one of the above bodies--NOT!

"Perhaps you're just different. It's not a sin, you know--though you may
 have heard otherwise."                     --Tam Elbrun, ST:TNG "Tin Man"
Newsgroups: rec.arts.startrek.current