From: fortony@sonne.cso.uiuc.edu
Newsgroups: rec.games.netrek
Subject: Re: SB vs 6 Captains
Date: 23 Jul 92 18:33:51 GMT
Organization: University of Illinois at Urbana
Originator: fortony@murphy

Richard Weinstein <rw2g+@andrew.cmu.edu> writes:

>gee, just what I always wanted: a silly debate about another silly debate

Welcome to the Usenet.  If you don't like it, why are you continuing it?

>Excerpts from netnews.rec.games.netrek: 23-Jul-92 Re: SB vs 6 Captains
>Jim Ivey@spanky.ssc.gov (7721)

>Duh.
>We're not talking about 6 people uncloaking together. I thought the whole
>debate was about an average 6 man ogg. The AVERAGE 6 man ogg in a REAL GAME
>sucks dick. I've survived a hundred without taking serious damage. 

Well, no.  The debate was "can a team of any six captains beat the
best starbase?", with the implication being that six average captains
can beat the average starbase.

>#     So all Captains are so stupid that they can't figure this out.  What
># the hell do you want, Captains from needmore?

>Most are, yes! Not people who are captain with 100 hours, but your AVERAGE
>captain is not a very good player, and certainly not a good ogger.

Really.  Where do you get this idea?  I'm an 'average captain' -- I
didn't even make it on 2x DI.  My ratio is around .54 on bronco.  Do
you think I'm a bad player?  Or a bad ogger?

># >  I flatly deny this. The second wave killed me ONCE, when I said "wait til
># 
>#     Again, this is a flat-out lie.  Period.  He never lived past the
>#second wave.

>You don't read whole paragraphs, do you?? OK, I'll keep it simple this time.
>I deny it only took 2 oggers on the second wave to kill me. That is a total

However, you said 'the second wave killed me once.'  In fact, the second
wave killed you several times, no?  You never got to the third wave, no?

>and complete falsehood. Twice on the second wave, the LAST living ogger killed
>me. Did he kill me when he ogged? NO. He somehow survived his "ogg" by 
>running past me out of phaser range, then coming back to hang around 
>and snipe me. I don't consider that part of the "wave." I put the "wave"
>back to the ship selection window wondering why they couldn't kill me.

Your redefinition of the word "wave" doesn't make your base explosion
any smaller.  Look.  You died with at most 12 kills.  End of discussion.

>Oh, well. I planned to go on and on responding to all your B.S., but I
>grow weary of it.
>-----------------------------------------------------------------------

>As far as I can tell, this whole stupid thing has gotten down to whether
>a good base can live at his home planet when 6 good oggers come to kill
>him, by any means they desire. I ask you: WHAT KIND OF STUPID QUESTION
>IS THAT? you would never have to "ogg" the base, you could stand back
>and blow torps at him outside of tractor range. I thought we went 
>through this in the original thread?!?!? That question has no bearing
>on the game of netrek. I thought we wanted to see if standard ogg WAVES
>of 6 AVERAGE players could beat the best bases. I don't consider myself
>one of the best bases, but felt insulted by W.Katz's post, and felt I 
>had to defend myself.

The oggers you had to go against were very average.  Several of those people
are people I wouldn't have on my all-star all-captain team.  That they didn't
ogg by your predefined standard doesn't invalidate the cold, hard, shiny
fact that you never had more than 12 kills when you bit the bucket.

>You guys really don't understand the power of Balton, Balinor, and 
>SpaceAce!, do you? DAMN I wish Craig were here. What the hell am *I*
>doing as the representative of the "Unkillable SB"?? I'm not even in
>the top ten, and you still had troubles with me.

History revision!  The POWER of Balton!  The MAJESTY of the man!  Oh,
when shall King Richard return from the crusade to free the land from
this scourge?

Look, you went up against some mediocre oggers.  You died repeatedly.
If you had gone up against the best captains I could find, you'd have
died a lot faster.  Balton would get stomped a little slower, but he'd
still be looking at the reentry page with twelve kills or less.
It's amazing to me the amount of reality denial there is surrounding
Balton, bases and captains.

>--Rick

>all flames to /dev/null PLEASE. I do NOT want further comment on this
>idiocy until we see how Rob does.

Puh LEEZE.  If you're gonna say dumb things that include flames, you're
Not Allowed to call 'BASE NO TAGBACKS I'M SAFE I QUIT'.
-- 
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Felix Sebastian Ortony	fortony@murphy.gis.uiuc.edu