From: >>>>>> Anonymous
Newsgroups: soc.culture.iranian
Subject: Re; eesAr & Hooshyar [sci-anon-poster]
Date: 21 Jan 1993 21:59:38 GMT
Organization: Notgheh MajjAni, Inc.
Distribution: world
NNTP-Posting-Host: handel
To: sci-anon-poster 
Originator: daemon@handel


Dear Mr. Naraghi:

>>"to az sar-e man va az jAn-e man aziz tari"
>>"bakheelam ar nakonam sar fadA _o_ jAn eesAr"
>>
>>As you see in the above example, which is also from "ostAd-e sokhan Sa'di",
>>"eesAr kardan" and "fadA kardan" both have the same meaning!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
>
>I swear to God, I can't see it your way even in the above example!  sheykh
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>shirAzi never said that.  You interpreted it that way, which by the way is
>one possible valid conclusion.  I still don't know how you know about their
>sameness.

Then why don't you tell us how you see it? Replace "eesAr' with "fadA" and
see if the meaning of that line changes. I don't see any change. What
about you? We can also ask interested people to judge this one.

>BTW, one bang is enough, you don't want to 'moshabak' me, do you? [I'm
>sick and tired of Arabic, every thing I say is Arabic - HFN].

I am sorry that unlike me, you are sick and tired of it (no sarcasm
intended). I wish that I could do something about it.

>>As you see, the word has different applications.
>
>Eureka!  Eureka!  You finally said it.  What is in this strange word that
>can have different meanings and different applications?  We now learn that
>to define it almost one page of loghat-nAmeh DehkhodA would be taken.

Let's look at part of your first article about "eesAr":

>	...
>Yeap, there is a word (sorry guys it's Arabic and I challenge our friends
>to top this one. No it's not fadA-kAr either!) for the above description:
                                               ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>	...

My stress is on the part that I underlined, as well as that "above
description" that you were talking about *at that time*. You challenged
netters to find a word that would fit the catagory expressed by that 
"above description". The challenge was not finding a word as "jAme'" and 
as "vast"(quotes are from you) as "eesAr". Considering it as a "jAme'" and
"vast" word is something that you brought up later, after you realized
what your problem is. So my response to your 

	"Eureka! Eureka! You finally said it."

is: 

You are trying to imply that you mainly wanted to challenged people to find a
word as "vast & jAme'" as eesAr but you happened to choose a quote that was
the description of one of the sub-concepts that are hidden in the concept
of eesAr. I am sure that this is not the case.

>I like your 'akhlAgh-e mosAlem-Amiz' [oh, not again! - HFN] shahrAm khAn,
>except I believed 'eesAr' was too big to be defined by one word.  The whole
       ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

I don't think that this is the point that you were trying to make in the
begining. I can see the change in your way of addressing this issue since
you used farhang-e dehkhodA.
  
>exercise in this challenge was to drive ourselves nuts to find ONE word in
>Persian language to do the job.

No sir. You started it in a different way. This is what you are saying now.
You gave the description of some concept and asked for a persian equivalent
for that and you got your answer(s).

>Thanks for your detail grammer explanation.  I knew that too.  All right,
>we can hence say 'eesAr kardan' is masdar-e morakkab.  In Persian I haven't
>seen eesAr being a sAdeh verb....

Yes. On this one you are correct and I apologize to everyone for the mistake
that I made. I mixed "masdar" with "fe'l".

>I guess you are mixing fArsi with Arabic....
                ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Can you separate them completely?

>You seem to be so much focused on your Persian language that you might not
                                  ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
What do you mean by "your Persian language"? It can have different
implications. I will save myself some time by not jumping into conclusion.

>'khob digeh chi!'  Let me see, are you 'mA ro film kardi?'  This is what I

I think I have already given the answer to this question. It's either you
changed the way you were addressing the problem after reading FD, or it is my
fault that I didn't ask if your point was one word for a "vast & jAme'"
concept , or a word for the *specific* catagory that you quoted!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

ShahrAm







 
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