From: viviana@igor.tamri.com (Vivian Aldridge)
Subject: First Aid Kits (summary)
Organization: TOSHIBA America MRI, South San Francisco, CA
Date: Wed, 30 Sep 92 20:18:33 GMT

October 1,1992
The following is a summary of most of the responses I
received concerning FIRST AID KITS. In addition, to
suggesting places where I might purchase  complete kits
or components of a kit, I also received interesting advice on what to
include in a kit. Kits described in the following were for the
car, EMT level kit, the home closet, and backpacking.
In addition, some people described medical devices they
especially liked. Finally, a few people included the names
of medical reference books.

My thanks to everyone who contributed to this summary.

Enjoy,
Vivian

viviana@tamri.com

[PS This article is 11 pages long when printed out]
-------------------------------------------------------------
My original post:


Greetings,

Does anyone know of mail order companies that sell good
first aid kits? I'm looking for kits that contain items such
as gauze pads, cravats,scissors,cotton balls,thermometers,
syrup of Ipecac,tweezers,bandages,finger splints, cold and
hot packs etc.

I've looked for kits at camping stores and Cosco, but they
seem to be made up mostly of band-aids.

In addition to mail order houses, does anyone know of a
store in the Bay Area (California)?

Thanks!

Vivian
Please email to me at 
viviana@tamri.com

I'll post a summary if I find out there isn't one already.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------
From cfranz@wpi.WPI.EDU  Fri Sep 25 11:17:01 1992

For mail order try Parr Emergency Products 1-800-282-7904
Also try checking for any local medical suppliers in the phonebook.
______________________________________________________________________________

From allen@asylum.cs.utah.edu  Fri Sep 25 11:59:43 1992

Try REI.  There are ones made by several manufactures.  I have one
made by YakWork (now out of business).  Most First aid kits all the bandages
you will need howevery they always lacks drugs and sutures and other
prescription items.  I have lots of doctor friends who always help
me out.

Cheers,

Allen

--------------------------------------------------------------------------
From marchant@cea.berkeley.edu  Fri Sep 25 12:56:46 1992

Let it be said that there is no such thing as a perfect first aid kit.
REI (there is a store in Redwood City) usually has a fair selection of
first aid kits and supplies. The yellow pages under "medical supplies"
and under "first aid" will list a bunch of places willing to sell you
lots of neat and expensive stuff. I would say that the money for an
expensive first aid kit would be better spent taking a good first aid
course. The Bay Area has a number of opportunities to take good courses.
Start by calling your local Red Cross. I think the time and effort in 
an advanced first aid course (preferable wilderness) is well worth it.
Best of luck! 
-- 

Will Marchant                   Center for Extreme Ultraviolet Astrophysics
marchant@cea.berkeley.edu       University of California
KC6ROL@WA6HAM.#NOCAL.CA.USA.NA  2150 Kittredge St., Berkeley, CA 94720 USA
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: damouth@wrc.xerox.com (David E. Damouth)

The classic source for First Aid is Indiana Camp Supply.  It was run
for many years by Dr. Forgey (who also wrote one of the best books on
wilderness medicine), and a significant fraction of the catalog is on medical
items.  The phone number I have is (219) 947-2525 <the latest phone number
is (303)669-8884--I called and it works!--Vivian>  , but I believe they
have changed ownership and moved recently.  Perhaps that number will at
least give you the new number.  This catalog is fun to read.  It has a
lot of individual medical items as well as kits.  Did you ever see a
skin stapler?  You can *staple* a wound closed, very quick and easy,
with much less skill than needed for sewing, and with less need for
anesthetic (which you can't get anyway). It apparently hurts like hell,
but is over with quickly.

I found that none of the standard kits met my own needs.  I have bought
a few individual items from this source, bought standard items like
bandages much cheaper from local stores, and made my own kit.  Much of
the stuff you mentioned can be obtained in a local pharmacy or medical
supply store.  The real problem is getting prescription items.  There
seems to be no way to do so unless you have a doctor who knows you
personally.  Strong pain killers are perhaps the most important piece
of wilderness medicine, and coedine is one of the most difficult things
to get your hands on.  Antibiotics are something else that I would want
to have if I were more than a few days  away from professional help.
The difficulty of obtaining such things is compounded by the fact that
most such items have expiration dates and should be replaced, typically
after a year or two.  Since I never actually use such stuff, it's a
significant expense as well as a significant nuisance.

Tweezers are nice to have.  I haven't found any important reason for
sissors, and so don't carry them.  What can you do with sissors that
you can't do almost as well with a sharp knife?  I do keep a razor
blade in my kit, since it is very light weight, and the extreme
sharpness is nice for cutting flesh.  I try to keep my knife razor
sharp, but it has to be used for other things as well.  I also don't
carry splints and large bandages on trips where someone could go for
help and get back in a few days.  In the unlikely event they are
needed, I can make quite functional splints with local wood, torn-up
clothing, and duct tape.  (Ten feet or so of duct tape is essential -
it can not only splint an ankle but can repair a broken pack frame,
patch a leaky canoe, spint a broken tent pole, etc. )  I don't carry
disinfectants either. No one has shown that anything works
significantly better than soap and water for external wounds.

If I were on a month-long expedition far from help, I'd be more
elaborate, or if I were leading a large group of novices, I would also
carry a much more complete kit.  But for a small group of friends, what
actually gets used is lots of bandaids, lots of moleskin (The spenco
"Second Skin" and premium mole skin is better than the drug store
variety), lots of aspirin or ibufrofen, and not much else.  Sufficient
knowledge to protect and  immobilize a broken limb with local materials
is very comforting.

And stronger pain killer: particularly if I'm going solo or with just
one other person.  The immobilizing effect of the pain from a migrane
or a broken leg could be life-threatening, if I've got to get back
under my own power.  

-------------------------------------------------------------------------
From jrd5@thor.INS.CWRU.Edu  Fri Sep 25 14:44:35 1992

In a previous article, viviana@igor.tamri.com (Vivian Aldridge) says:

>Does anyone know of mail order companies that sell good
>first aid kits? I'm looking for kits that contain items such
>as gauze pads, cravats,scissors,cotton balls,thermometers,
>syrup of Ipecac,tweezers,bandages,finger splints, cold and
>hot packs etc.

You're really better off buying the items you need yourself and building
your own kit that fits your needs.  Your list is a good start, but I have
some ideas.  Cotton balls don't really have a place in first aid; they have
a nasty tendancy to leave little threads and tufts of cotton stuck in
wounds you're trying to clean.  Use a 2x2 gauze pad and some disinfectant
of your choice instead.  Syrup of Ipecac is falling out of favor in EMS;
it's actually been removed from the Maryland protocols.  In any case, it's
only to be used on the order of the poison control center.  You want 
tweezers with special sharp points for removing splinters; these are
sometimes called "splinter forceps."  You'll probably want a CPR mask of
some sort, assuming you're certified in CPR, and you'll certainly want
latex gloves.

If you're curious, here's a list of what's usually in my smaller kit --
this goes in the car with me in a largish fanny pack.

The front contains:

Band-aids -- normal, small, fingertip, knuckle, extra-large
Butterfly closures -- large and small
Disinfectant -- bottled and wipes.  I use benzalkonium chloride / Zephiran.
Laerdal Pocket Mask, oral airways (airways are an EMT-level skill)
Alcohol preps for cleaning equipment / my hands
Sugar or glucose paste
aspirin / generic Tylenol

The main part contains:

Latex gloves
Stethoscope, adult BP cuff
Notepad, pens
Holster w/ trauma shears, tweezers, forceps, penlight
Non-sterile 2x2, 4x4 gauze pads for cleaning and bandaging
Sterile 2x2, 3x3 and 4x4 gauze pads for dressings
Sterile 5x9 trauma pads
Non-sterile 1", 2", 3" gauze rollers
1/2", 1", 3" silk tape
Eyewash or sterile saline
2", 3" ACE bandages
Chemical cold and hot packs
Space blanket

There's stuff I've been known to carry or should carry in the larger
box in the trunk; this would inclued a rolled SAM splint, more trauma
pads, Kerlix 4", 6" gauze rollers, and always more gloves.

I can't really help you with stores, but places either I or my
organizations have ordered from include

Matrx Medical -  1-800-845-3550
Dyna Med -       1-800-334-8211
Moore Medical -  1-800-234-1464

Moore is perhaps your best source of gauze, cravats, and so on.  I have
no connection with any company supplying medical equipment.

--
        Jacob DeGlopper, EMT-A, Wheaton (MD) Volunteer Rescue Squad
           -- CWRU Biomedical Engineering - jrd5@po.cwru.edu --
              jue@epaibm.rtpnc.epa.gov / JUE@NCCIBM1.BITNET
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
From jrd5@pop.cwru.edu  Fri Sep 25 15:02:24 1992

Five years this weekend :-).  I've worked with the Red Cross on lots
of first aid standbys, so I have some idea of what you might need in a
first aid kit above and beyond an EMS-type trauma kit.  It's always
nice to be able to put something back in and help someone else out
who's starting up. 

This may change your requirements slightly if you're going to be more than
a few hours from medical help.  Red Cross Standard First Aid, for example,
assumes EMS is right around the corner.  You might have to bandage or splint
something to a level where it'll hold up under adverse conditions -- being
walked on, rained on, or being out all night.  You won't have your helpful
home medicine cabinet.  Once you finish your training, you'll have some idea
of what you're trained to use, and what sorts of things you'll have to
have around to make use of your training, within the limits of the law.

--
         Jacob DeGlopper, EMT-A, Wheaton (MD) Volunteer Rescue Squad
            -- CWRU Biomedical Engineering - jrd5@po.cwru.edu --
                jue@epaibm.rtpnc.epa.gov / JUE@NCCIBM1.BITNET

           A programmer is a machine for converting coffee into code 
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
From UCSD.EDU!dcdwest!sarge  Sat Sep 26 08:38:22 1992

Vivian, Have you ckeck with a local medical supply company in your
area? That is where I got my first aid kit and I was able to expand
it with more supplies and other such items that I felt I wanted in
my kit. I finally had to put my first aid kit into a metal tool box
for carrying it around and I kept a bigger box in the back of my
car with a lot of extra supplies...
I would suggest that you check with a medical supplier they are
lited in the yellow pages of the phone book or ask your doctor or a
nurse at your local emergency room they normally have such
information...

	Hope it helps...
	  Bob

-- 
Bob Heddles              ITT    Aerospace Communications Division--CA
ucsd!dcdwest!sarge     DEFENSE      10060 Carroll Canyon Road
sarge@dcdwest%ucsd.edu                San Diego, CA 92131
dcdwest!sarge@ucsd.edu
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
From mj26+@andrew.cmu.edu  Sat Sep 26 14:32:12 1992

Dynamed has a wide selection of first-aid supplies and kits.  I don't
know the number off hand. But call information, I think there is an 800
number.

		-Moss Jacobson
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
From @ricevm1.rice.edu:WFAUST@NOMVS.LSUMC.EDU  Mon Sep 28 08:43:12 1992

I had saved a previous post regarding suppliers.  It is included below:

Received: by MARIST (Mailer R2.07) id 1499; Sat, 29 Feb 92 06:12:26 EST

    Because of the recent discussion about accessories, I pulled out my
    small catalog collection recently.  This list is my first attempt to
    compile a comprehensive list of mail-order suppliers.  Some of the
    information was taken from some recent posts.

    NFPA			800/344-3555
	Yes, THE National Fire Protection Association publishes a
	catalog of fire safety products.  NFPA publications, textbooks,
	and videos, as well as some from non-NFPA sources.  Very
	extensive collection.  NFPA seminars also described and priced.
	All material geared towards firefighters, educators, and
	industrial hygenists.  They'll send the catalog to you
	regardless if your agency is an NFPA member.  They have member
	and non-member prices.

    Gall's			800/477-7766
    	Gall's carries outer wear, lights and sirens, flashlights, and
	accessories for EMTs, firefighters, and law enforcement
	personnel.  Extensive inventory.  Gift selection.  They
	sometimes have used lights and sirens for sale but not listed in
	the catalog: call and ask.  Prices are reasonable.

    Dynamed			800/854-2706
    	Just about anything you would use to stock a BLS ambulance,
	including the stretcher.  Some ALS equipment as well.  Also
	accessories for the EMT or Paramedic, including holsters, outer
	wear, jump kits, and patches.  Some gift items and accessories
	as well.  Prices are reasonable.

    Dixie Gear 			800/347-3494

    Moore Medical 		800/234-1464 Ask for the EMS catalog
	Moore carries many medical supplies found on a BLS ambulance at
	low to reasonable prices.  A few other accessories, but not
	extensive.

    Parr Emergency 		800/282-7904

    Micro Bio-medics [otherwise known as MBM]
	Supplies and equipment for sports medicine, first aid, EMS, and
	school nurses.

	MBM, Inc.  		MBM, Inc.
	717 South Third Ave 	8930 Western Way, Suite 5
	Mt. Vernon, NY 		Jacksonville, FL 32256
	800/431-2743 		800/345-9883
	914/699-1700 		904/363-1396
	914/699-1759 FAX

	MBM - Arcade First Aid Division
	211 Harbor Way
	South San Francisco, CA  94080
	800/241-6555
	415/589-6037
	415/589-0812 FAX

    Roberts Company		508/875-8877
	Patches, insignia, promotion trinkets, and gifts.  Reasonable
	for the new firefighter or EMT, or for a department looking to
	increase their Public Relations exposure.

    Scanner World		518/436-9606
    	A pretty extensive line of Bearcat, Uniden, and Cobra scanners
	at mailorder prices.  Also Citizen's Band radios, radar
	detectors, replacement batteries, and antennas.  Limited
	selection of 2-way UHF and VHF mobiles.

    Grove			800/438-8155
    	High-end scanners and shortwave receivers.  This catalog is for
	the serious enthusiast and those who are curious about the
	current equipment limits of the hobby.  Good book list.


    I disclaim everything about this information except that I have not
    tried to be intentionally misleading ;-).  Use at your own risk,
    don't sue me if a company doesn't live up to my billing, etc.

    I'd like to add to this list.  If you have a catalog that you like
    and order from at least occasionally, please drop me a note with the
    name, discription, and contact number.  I'd prefer e-mail: post as a
    last resort.

    If I get sufficient responses, I'll post an updated list.

    Yes, I'm the same guy who did the lights and siren survey last fall.
    Am I a maslchist or what?

    Mike (now living in Boulder)
--
Mike Beaty					  mbeaty@nyx.cs.du.edu
Wm. Bryant Faust, IV                            WFAUST@NOMVS.LSUMC.EDU

--------------------------------------------------------------------------
Hi!

I would recommend making your own first aid kit.  Most of the mail order
companies have bags.  Then, you can order whatever supplies you will
really need, depending on what you're going to use the kit for.  Now,
initially this will seem much more expensive than buying a ready made
kit.  However, if you shop around and get good prices on things, it
works out to be cheaper.  Especially, since you will have extra stuff
around, to replace what's in your kit as you use it.

Later,

JR
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
From jdeifik@ISI.EDU  Mon Sep 28 10:04:32 1992

Indiana Camp Supply has lots of neat medical stuff. Most stuff is burtally
expensive. School Health Supply has a more limited selection of backcountry
stuff, but at fart better prices. Indiana Camp Supply is now in Colarado.
There is a well known backcountry doctor, whose name escapes me right now,
that is loosely associated with ICS.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
From shimeall@cs.nps.navy.mil  Mon Sep 28 10:29:35 1992

Frankly, I found it simpler to just put together my own.  I used a 
plastic filing box as the container and put in most of the items that
you mentioned, although I've found that cold packs get shaken enough
in a backpack as to be useless (i.e., they last 1 trip, even if not used,
as they get shaken enough to trigger the chemicals).  I would add Bactine
to your list, as my group gets a goodly number of scrapes and scratches.
				Tim
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
From jdeifik@vlsif.isi.edu  Mon Sep 28 11:11:19 1992

I dunno. Call 303 555 1212 and ask information. I think that 303 is the
right area code for colorado. I can always look it up when I get home.
I have at least two of their catalogs. I'm in a good mood right now.
I will call...
303 669 8884.
<This phone number is for Indiana Camp Supply. It works!--Vivian>
------------------------------------------------------------------------

From jdeifik@vlsif.isi.edu  Mon Sep 28 11:34:02 1992

Be persistant. The first aid books by the nameless author are good.
Get the more detailed one. He also has a book on hypothermia, which
makes for good reading. BTW I really like the sawyer extractor.
Just last month, I used it on someone that was stung by a wasp/hornet/yellow-
jacket type insect. The pain was completly gone after I sucked with it
for a few minutes.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------

From puh@sarnoff.com  Mon Sep 28 13:28:56 1992

Try a real medical supply corporation, such as Moore Medical, 1-800-234-1464.
Fully stocked kits like their "Rescue Response Kit" run about $130.00, empty
ones at $33.95.  I think you'll find that to be about minimal for a stocked
EMT-level kit.  I've found Moore's prices to be pretty good relative to some
of the outrageous suppliers out there.

Of course, you may not really need all the stuff in their kit, so investigate
buying an empty kit and stocking it yourself.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
From puh@sarnoff.com  Tue Sep 29 05:54:45 1992

I just got a flyer from Moore saying that their Rescue
Response Kits are on sale for $114.

Patrick Hsieh                                   puh@sarnoff.com
David Sarnoff Research Center

-------------------------------------------------------------------
From sdr57@cas.org  Tue Sep 29 11:25:55 1992

Greetings

What level of training do you have? Red Cross First Aid?
Advanced First Aid? EMT-A? EMT-P? RN? PA? MD?
And where do you plan to take it? Climbing? Hiking in
the Southwest? Hiking in the Northeast?
And is it just for you? Or is it for a group?
And do you want something which will fit in your pack
along with everything else you have to carry,
or something that you will be carrying for SAR?

As a rule, you are better off making up your own kit.
The Wilderness Medical Society has published some guidelines
for kit contents, and Auerbachs book on Wilderness Medicine
also has some good advice.

There is a good comprehensive pack offered by one of
the survival companies (it includes everything you
need up to EMT-A level, although I would toss the
blood pressur cuff and replace it with a Tycos),
but it would be the only thing you'd carry. Good for SAR.
I'll send you the address tommorrow - I don't have it
at work.

In the meantime, if you haven't already received an adequate answer
elsewhere, e-mail me some more info on your requirements and I will
try to give you a better response.
-------------------------------------------------------------------
From viviana@tamri.com

>I am part of a ERT at work. ERT means emergency response
>team. We are going through training at this time. Topics
>we are learning about include bloodborne pathogens,first
>aid,fire safety,chemical awareness for first responders,
>respiratory safety equipment,decontamination procedures etc.

From sdr57@cas.org

You might want to consider taking the Red Cross Advanced First
Aid course as well - it has a slant towards improvisation
of equipment that might be useful in the wilderness.

>I'm interested in diffrent types of first aid kits..
>hiking at 10,00ft for a week, for home use after an
>earthquake, and one for the car in case of roadside
>emergencies.
>> And is it just for you? Or is it for a group?
>Not just for me. For up to four people.

Consider breaking the kit up into four modules so that
no one has to carry the whole thing - each module should
contain basic supplies plus one or two heavier items.

>> And do you want something which will fit in your pack
>> along with everything else you have to carry,

>> or something that you will be carrying for SAR?
>What is SAR? search and rescue? If so, not that. for

SAR = search and rescue

>hiking the kit will be in the pack, at home in the closet
>with earthquake supplies, or in the trunk of the car.

You can probably get by with two kits, initially - a big
kit that you can move between car and closet (or just keep
in the car) and a smaller kit for your pack - you will find it
easy to spend your life's savings on medical kits. I'll
give you a kit recommendation below, but I suspect that
after your training is complete you'll decide to make your
own. Fishing tackle boxes (Plano 747 is used a lot) make
good car kit containers - rugged with compartments for
all sorts of things.

>> As a rule, you are better off making up your own kit.
>> The Wilderness Medical Society has published some guidelines
>> for kit contents, and Auerbachs book on Wilderness Medicine
>> also has some good advice.
>
>I'll look for these books.

The Wilderness Medical Society guidelines are in their
newsletter, "Wilderness Medicine,"  which should be available
through interlibrary loan at your local library (if you can't get them,
send me a snail-mail mailing address, and I'll xerox mine for you)

I'd also get the Auerbach book through the library - I think
it's priced at about $100 now, and it is probably more
detailed than you want. The correct citation for it is:
  Auerbach, Paul S. and Edward C. Geehr; "Management of Wilderness
  and Environmental Emergencies, 2nd Ed." (1989).

Books you might want to buy include W. Forgey's "Wilderness
Medicine," which you can find at many of the better camping
stores (REI) - it is reasonably priced and a good size to
carry. Another book is J. Wilkerson's "Medicine for
Mountaineering." I have an old 800 number for its
publishers - it is 1-800-553-4453 - they also publish
other books on various interesting topics.

>> There is a good comprehensive pack offered by one of
>> the survival companies (it includes everything you
>> need up to EMT-A level, although I would toss the
>> blood pressur cuff and replace it with a Tycos),
>> but it would be the only thing you'd carry. Good for SAR.
>> I'll send you the address tommorrow - I don't have it
>> at work.

>OK! I'm interested in the address.

The kit I recommend is the Rescue Fieldcare PAC from
NITRO-PAK. This would be your car/closet kit - it is
not something you could slip into a pack - in fact it
is a pack by itself. Cost is probably around $400 now.
It is fairly comprehensive as far as trauma treatment
goes (If they will give you a discount on one without
the sphygmomanometer - that's blood pressure cuff for
normal people - take it - the sphyg they include is
so-so - and the stethoscope isn't great either - you're
better off buying good ones separately). If you are
starting from scratch, it is a good deal, and it is
very well laid out for quick access. It does include
some equipment (an airway kit) that you may not be
trained to use, and some stuff that is useless (ammonia
inhalants - useful only for testing to see if someone
can smell - using them to wake people up is a bad idea,
especially if the person may have a neck injury, since
they flinch - anyone who claims to have lost their sense
of smell who doesn't react to ammonia is probably faking
it - the ammonia stimulates pain nerves - different
pathway from smell nerves).
The address is:

	   NITRO-PAK
	   13243 Rosecrans Avenue
	   Santa Fe Springs, CA 90670-4940
	   Phone: (213) 802-0099

They say they charge $5 for their catalogs, but I suspect they
will send you info free if you call with a specific request.
(In their catalog, they note that this kit was originally
designed for, among others, the CIA. This happens to be
true. If you feel like kidding them, say you want one in black
like your friend has - and, before you ask, I have a friend
whose *mother-in-law* is with the CIA ;-)

You might also want to call around to the various
medical supply companies near you and see if anyone
offers "jump kits" or specializes in paramedic supplies,
and look around.

-------------------------------------------------------------------

I went to REI and looked at their first aid kits and decided that 
I wanted more stuff than they offered for the price.  What I did
was to purchase the little red pouch and stock it myself.  This 
has been perfect.  I think that I have used everything in that 
little pouch at least once. (Even the two dollar bills!)

michelle
------------------------------------------------------------------------


>From igor!sgi!odin!sgigate!olivea!uunet!zephyr.ens.tek.com!vice!hall Tue Sep 29 07:08:18 PDT 1992

>I went to REI and looked at their first aid kits and decided that 
>I wanted more stuff than they offered for the price.  What I did
>was to purchase the little red pouch and stock it myself.  This 
>has been perfect.  I think that I have used everything in that 
>little pouch at least once. (Even the two dollar bills!)

Not only that, you may save money.  Most medical stuff is
outrageously overpriced but you can save a bit by careful shopping.
Most of the ready-made kits don't include much and overcharge for
it.  Of course for pure medical stuff you have to pay the price but
you can substitute in areas where the material won't come into
contact with an open wound.  For example, I make my triangular
bandages out of old sheets.  Much cheaper plus I make them a usable
size (those I've seen in the stores are too small for most adults).
If you can find 1" wide atheletic tape it is usually cheaper than
the fancy stuff which comes on a nice metal spool, and is also
better for a lot of purposes (eg. taping a twisted ankle).

Another trick I use is to seal my first aid kit with a seal-a-meal.
Keeps it nice and dry until needed.  I seal it up, then heat it to
cause the air to expand.  While it is hot I poke a hole in one
corner and squeeze the air out, then re-seal that corner.  This
helps keep it from turning into a balloon when I climb to higher
altitudes.  (If you have the fancy vacuum seal-a-meal that would be
even better.)  I have to re-do this occasionally as the pouches wear
and develop leaks.

Shop around, use your creativity etc.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
>From igor!sgi!decwrl!ames!haven.umd.edu!darwin.sura.net!dtix!oasys!jwmorris Tue Sep 29 07:08:41 PDT 1992

Why not simply make up your own using a suitable-sized Tupperware-type
box?  My daughter made me one in Girl Scouts and it's been very useful.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------

>From igor!sgi!odin!sgigate!olivea!spool.mu.edu!uwm.edu!ogicse!zephyr.ens.tek.com!master!aspen!mikeq Wed Sep 30 08:18:09 PDT 1992
>*syrup of Ipecac

If you take Ipecac along, be sure and take a bit of activated charcoal along as
a chaser, otherwise you'll be puking the dry heaves long after all the
good is done. A couple tablespoons neutralizes the Ipecac, so don't take
the charcoal along with the Ipecac.

Mike



-- 
End of summary