From: yeonwook@hardy.u.washington.edu (Mark Choi)
Subject: Re: The Russo-Japanese War (part 2)
Organization: University of Washington, Seattle
Date: Wed, 26 Aug 1992 18:50:15 GMT

In article <11891@optilink.UUCP> cramer@optilink.UUCP (Clayton Cramer) writes:
>In article <1992Aug21.180605.6076@island.COM>, fester@island.COM (Mike Fester) writes:
>> In article <Bt9JuD.KAJ@news.cso.uiuc.edu> slkg9733@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (Steven L. Kellmeyer) writes:
># #Ain't that the truth, Abba.  Noticed your thread, and thought I'd throw in
># #a side bit of info, in case you didn't already know it.  Seems the Japanese
># #petitioned the League of Nations to remove a part of their charter which
># #referred to Asians as "inferior races".  The League refused.  The Japanese
># #left the League shortly thereafter.  For an excellent overview of the 
># #Pacific war as a race war, read John Dwyer's "War without Mercy" - it
># #changed the way I looked at the whole theatre of operations.  Combine his
># #evidence with what we already know about biology-as-destiny in the Third
># #Reich, and the whole damn thing gets very scary in a radically new way.
># 
># Why? It's difficult to see the Pacific War as a "race war". After all, the
># Japanese attacked, subjugated, and attempted to eradicate the culture of
># Korea, and last I checked, they are of the same race (in fact, the Japanese
># Royal family is most likely descended from Korean nobility). They then
>
>Hmmm.  From what I've read, the Koreans were always regarded as a
>lower class of human by the Japanese.

What is your point? Does a people's opinion always reveal the truth?
Since the Mongols were regarded as sub-human, does that really make them
sub-human? You must remember that Korea and Japanese history goes back
much farther then just the last 500 modern dynastic years. It was only 
until around the 17th century Japan got up to the same technological 
and cultural level as China and Korea, and when Japan really began to
break away from Chinese and Korean influences, and towards modernization.
It would be entirely inaccurate to say "Koreans were ALWAYS regarded
as a lower class of human by Japanese". This attitude only began to become
popular from the 17th century on. Up to then, the Japanese islands were
considered uncivilized to China and Korea, and the emperor didn't share
the legitimacy of being under the "son of heaven" (Chinese emperor).
By the 10th century, I recall that there was a census done in Japan,
revealing almost 1/3 of the nobility in Japan being of tracable Korean
ancestry, from either Silla or Paekche (most likely Paekche). I believe
the other 1/3 were Chinese immigrants. Both of these foreign noble classes
never did assimilate, however. Instead, the very reason why they were noble
was _because_ of their cultural foundings. The native Japanese at that time
(most likely descendents from previous migration waves from China and Korea,
i.e. Yayoi) were eager students of their Chinese and Korean teachers. I would
hardly think the Japanese then regarded their noble people/teachers as being 
sub-human.IHowever, with the opening of Japan to the Portuguese, Japan began
to modernize, and to modernize quickly, Meiji reformists believed the key
was ultimate mercantalism. This was a mix of vibrant capitalism and radical
ultra-nationalism. You must remember this period of modernization came 
after a relatively long period of isolation from China and Korea (no real
contact with Chinese and Korea in the form of new Korean and Chinese 
immigrants for a long time), this solidified the creation of the "Japanese
race". Noble classes from China and Korea soon lost knowledge of their
roots, and became "Japanese" during this period. You can say this period of
cultural unification (encompassing earlier Korean and Chinese cultural 
elements) was climaxed by western modernization. But the main underlying
point to be made is that until the 17th century, the Japanese were regarded
as sub-human, not Koreans. Although up to that date, there was no "Japanese
race", and the people from both China and Korea forgot about their cousins
who became noble people in Japan.

># attempted to annex Manchuria (again, Asians lived there). Their attacks on 
># the British, French, and Dutch possesions didn't occur until well after those
># nations had their hands full with the Germans. Harldy indicates that the war,
># so far as the Japanese were concerned, had any idealogical aspects beyond
># real politik.
>
>I think it's a mistake to ignore Japanese attitudes about racial
>superiority.  Without them, the ideological justification for the
>land grab in Asian might have been considerably less effective.

I would think if the Japanese people talked about "racial superiority",
it would be a compliment for both Koreans and Chinese (ones who are 
idiotic enough to believe in such a thing).

># Mike
>-- 
>Clayton E. Cramer {uunet,pyramid}!optilink!cramer  My opinions, all mine!
>Alcohol prohibition didn't work; drug prohibition doesn't work; gun
>prohibition won't work.


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  --|--|      | Mark Yeon Wook Choi             |
   /.\ |      | yeonwook@hardy.u.washington.edu |
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