HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: dean@vexcel.com (Dean Alaska)
Subject: Nicaragua today (was Re: The Crimes of Nicaragua (IV))
Organization: VEXCEL Corporation, Boulder, CO
Date: Mon, 14 Sep 1992 20:55:40 GMT

In article <1992Sep14.050823.19567@morrow.stanford.edu> jabba@deathstar.Stanford.EDU (Richard Charles Graves) writes:
>[Harel uncritically cites an old Oxfam report on self-reported improvements
>in selected health and social indicators in Nicaragua]
>
>For a good, unbiased reality check see United Nations Development Programme,
>  _Human Development Report 1990_, Oxford University Press, esp. pp 104- and
>  appendices.
>
>But really, this is ancient history. I can't believe you people have been
>arguing about this for months. We're nearing the close of 1992 and the most
>recent source you've mentioned is a 1986 Chomsky tract based on others'
>1980-84 research. In case you haven't noticed, neither Elliot Abrams nor the
>sandinistas have been in power for some years. Could you consider devoting
>some thought to current issues? For example:

True enough.  Allen's persistence (to put it politely) made it difficult
to leave the earlier issues behind (Allen would probably refer to
Harel's persistence).
>
>Jesse Helms has single-handedly witheld humanitarian aid from Nicaragua. The
>  U.S. contribution to tsunami relief was a meager $25,000 from an embassy
>  slush fund. In whose interest is it to deny humanitarian and disaster aid? 

Its interesting that if this type of actions continues, it could help the
Sandinista's in the next election.  Many people believe that a major
factor in the UNO victory was to end the war and get US aid, in other
words, improve the economy (sounds familiar?).  If it doesn't improve
because of these actions, UNO may have a hard time getting reelected.
By the way, Helms is holding up the aid because he wants US property
returned to the old owners.  I heard that Chamorro was pushing such
a bill.  Have you heard anything about it?  With former contras
complaining that _they_ haven't yet gotten land promised to them in
the settlement, this could be a serioud issue.
>--
>| rich graves, stanfd res affairs mac tech, and occasional senior, poli sci |
>| jabba@deathstar.stanford.edu     88C Escondido Village     (415) 497-1573 |


-- 

		dingo in boulder	(dean@vexcel.com)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.latin-america
Subject: Hay solo dos paises en America Latina?
From: markrose@spss.com (Mark Rosenfelder)
Date: Fri, 11 Sep 1992 20:09:53 GMT
Organization: SPSS Inc.

Puede ser que a los lectores de este newsgroup les interesara un somario 
de los mas recientes articulos por pais sobre cual se concentran.

            no politicos   politicos   total
Nicaragua         1           52        53
Cuba              2           49        51
Argentina         2            7         9
El Salvador       4            3         7
Panama            3            2         5
Peru              1            3         4
Guatemala         -            3         3
Mexico            1            2         3
Colombia          3            -         3
Chile             2            -         2
Brasil            -            1         1
Haiti             -            1         1
Costa Rica        1            -         1
Bolivia           1            -         1
Ecuador           1            -         1
generales*       32           27        59
               ------       ------   --------
                 54          150       204

* articulos de asunto continental, o tratando mas de un pais

Quizas necesitamos un nuevo newsgroup-- soc.culture.south-america...
From: donq@acs.bu.edu (Jose Otero)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.latin-america
Subject: GUATEMALA: ARMED FORCES DENY BOMBING CIVILIANS
Date: 8 Sep 92 02:51:14 GMT
Organization: Boston University, Boston, MA, USA
Originator: donq@acs.bu.edu



 GUATEMALA: ARMED FORCES DENY BOMBING CIVILIANS


guatemala city, aug 31 (ips) -- the minister of defense, general
jose garcia, monday denied allegations that the armed forces had
bombed civilians in the course of recent counter-insurgency
operations.

the allegations had been made 10 days ago by a human rights
commission which included german evangelical bishop joachim
held.

garcia also condemned ''foreigners and organisations'' who
acted ''against the sovereignty and independence of guatemala,''
and particularly those who made allegations against the armed
forces.

pressed by reporters to clarify his statement, garcia said,
''i don't want to mention any country, or anybody in particular,
because this would only enlarge the whole aspect...''

the human rights commission had visited a community of 40,000
displaced persons in the central part of guatemala and reported
''the place was bombed.''

garcia said the displaced persons' communities constituted
focal points for the activities of the guatemalan national
revolutionary union (urng) guerrillas.

urng is an alliance of four rebel groups which have been at
war with the government in guatemala city for the past 30 years.

more than 100,000 people have died in the long struggle, and
at least 35,000 more have disappeared after being arrested by
the army and the police and it is generally believed they were
summarily executed.

urng and the government of president jorge serrano have been
holding peace talks in mexico for more than 18 months, but
though no ceasefire has so far been reached, some progress has
been made toward a political settlement of the civil war.
(ends/ips/tr/sp/np/hr/gr/oh/it)
From: jet5r@kelvin.seas.Virginia.EDU (Jose Eduardo Tabora)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.latin-america
Subject: Re: Do'nde esta'n las noticias de IPS?
Date: 14 Sep 92 21:25:31 GMT
Organization: University of Virginia

Estoy muy de acuerdo, la verdad que es muy facil evitar leer
y/o ignorar los articulos indeseables.

Por otro lado decisiones como estas deberian de discutirse
sobre la red y no limitarse a "amenazas" privadas.  

ANIMO A LOS IPSistas.  Y de paso gracias!!.

saludos noticiosos

jose
jet5r@Virginia.EDU
From: rjv@a2.cim.cdc.com (Rene Valdes)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.latin-america
Subject: Re: Hay solo dos paises en America Latina?
Date: 10 Sep 92 00:45:47 GMT
Reply-To: rjv@a2.cim.cdc.com (Rene Valdes)

In article <1992Sep8.195520.26679@spss.com>, markrose@spss.com (Mark Rosenfelder) writes:

|> Solo critico a los que atacan al gobierno cubano y en mismo tiempo
|> desatienden o defienden las dictaduras en otros paises.  Creo que hay tales 
|> en la red;

Quieres acaso decir, Mark, que un cubano que haya sufrido en carne propia abusos y
torturas fisicas o mentales por parte del gobierno cubano, que se vea imposibilitado de
ver a sus familiares en un pais o en otro, que haya visto la opresion y el terror que
reinan en su pais, no tiene derecho a atacar al gobierno cubano si no ataca al mismo
tiempo al gobierno de Venezuela, de Peru, de Mexico, etc?  Por que?  Cada uno que
presente sus opiniones, sus criticas y sus quejas sobre lo que mas conozca o mas le duela.
Eso de que para criticar a fulano hay que criticar a mengano tambien quizas este bien
para la revista Time o quien pretenda cubrir el mundo entero, pero un individuo tiene
derecho a atacar o a criticar a quien, segun el o ella, merezca tal critica sin que haya que
exigirle que critique y ataque a todo lo demas que esta mal en el mundo.  No te parece?

|> Por supuesto.  Pero he leido articulos que anticipen con alegria un derrumbe
|> economico en Cuba.  Esto es tambien el amor de la patria?

Bueno, las cosas no son siempre tan simples como parecen.  Para muchos cubanos que
salieron de Cuba en condiciones dificiles y para quienes Cuba ha cerrado sus puertas
de par en par, el derrumbe economico en Cuba se puede interpretar como el preludio
a un cambio, como la indicacion inconfundible de que el sistema impuesto en el pais
ya no da mas.  Lo que hizo desmoronarse a la Union Sovietica fue su derrumbe economico.
Asi, muchos que quisieran regresar a vivir en Cuba o al menos ir a visitar a sus hermanos,
a sus padres, a sus hijos, ven en ese derrumbe economico la posibilidad de un cambio, de
que se abran las puertas.  Y asi, esa alegria ante un dia que ya viene llegando es decididamente
amor a la patria y amor a los seres queridos inhumanamente separados por barreras de
odio y de ideologia.

Yo, personalmente, preferiria un cambio sin "derrumbe economico", pero lo cierto es
que tal derrumbe es, por encima de todo. el resultado de politicas ecomicas y sociales
disparatadas que no toman en cuenta la naturaleza humana y las condiciones historicas
actuales.  El derrumbe economico no ha sido, de ninguna manera, una consecuencia del
embargo, es el resultado de mas de treinta anyos de ineficiencia y chapuceria.

   Rene J. Valdes              |     rjv@a2.cim.cdc.com       |
From: JLM@SLACVM.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Newsgroups: soc.culture.latin-america
Subject: Re: Cuba Halts Nuclear Plant Construction
Date: 8 Sep 92 19:02:39 GMT
Organization: Stanford Linear Accelerator Center

In article <16828@ucdavis.ucdavis.edu>, ez000281@hamlet.ucdavis.edu says:
>
>In fact, it seems that all Cuban woes are blamed on: 1) the US embargo, 2) the
>absence of the Soviet welfare program, which interestingly is referred to by
>Mr. Castro as "the second blockade".

 It is always easier to blame someone else for your mistakes
and shortcomings than it is to accept responsibility. Fidel
is a master of re-directing the blame !!

>c) Plans are in the kitchen for the "removal" of the head of the Communists
>Partiy's "Chief of Ideology"
>
>d) Plans are in the kitchen for the "removal" of the head of the Union of
>Young Communists.

 These two people have spoken openly about the need for change
in Cuba. The head of the U.Y.C. even had the *audacity* to say
so in front of USA tv cameras !! (remember the 2 or 3 day live
broadcast from La Habana ??).

 Actually I'm amazed that Fidel would let them continue in their
post for so long !!  He must be getting slow in his old age !! :-) :-)

-- Jose L. Martinez --
Newsgroups: soc.culture.latin-america,soc.culture.spain
From: bredell@tdb.uu.se (Mats Bredell)
Subject: Re: Bigotry, ignorance and racism
Reply-To: Mats.Bredell@udac.uu.se
Organization: Uppsala University Computing Center (UDAC)
Date: Thu, 10 Sep 1992 07:30:22 GMT

JLM@SLACVM.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU writes:
: 
:  I was reading NEWS.GROUPS and I came across the following post.
: It has already created quite a stir in news.groups (and about 10 other
: newsgroups to which the article was originally posted).
: 
:  This jerk is giving us a very bad name.
: 
:  Read on and see for yourselves what I mean.
: 
: -- Jose L. Martinez --
: 
: Original article:
: >
: >  From: hugoglez@well.sf.ca.us (Hugo Gonzalez)
: >  Subject: Re: Fuck You All
: >  Message-ID: <BuAowu.A4v@well.sf.ca.us>
: >  Date: 9 Sep 92 05:07:42 GMT
: >  Sender: news@well.sf.ca.us
: >  Organization: Whole Earth 'Lectronic Link
: >
   [lots of stuff deleted]


It's really not worth commenting. People like this usually can't listen to
real arguments. In the list of "intelligence classes" this person provides,
I would put him in a class of his own ...

/Mats
-- 
Mats Bredell                                   Mats.Bredell@udac.uu.se
Uppsala University Computing Center (UDAC)     Ph:  +46 18 187817
Department of medical systems                  Fax: +46 18 187825
Sweden                                         Think straight - be gay!
From: moyarzun@bbn.com (Miguel Oyarzun)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.latin-america
Subject: Re: Hay solo dos paises en America Latina?
Date: 12 Sep 1992 11:54:06 GMT
NNTP-Posting-Host: bbn.com

hernan@pactech.gatech.edu (Hernan Astudillo R.) writes:

[... stuff deleted to protect the innocent ...]

>...  El exilio cubano no solo
>JAMAS lucho contra la dictadura de pinocho, sino que LE AYUDO.  Supongo que
>"olvidas" los lazos que unian a los grupos cubanos paramilitares con la
>policia secreta chilena; el ejemplo mas notorio fue el asesinato (con una
>bomba) en Washington D.C. de un chileno exiliado (ex-embajador Letelier).

>	Como tu bien dices, los exiliados de otros paises son bienvenidos si
>huyen de regimenes "totalitarios".  Si huyen de dictadores "autoritarios" (o
>sea, pro-bussines), entonces deben ser malos por huir del paraiso.  De hecho,
>los cubanos exiliados se comportan exactamente como los que mandan en Cuba:
>si quieren nuestro sabor de dictadura, perfecto; sino, que se jodan.

Esta no es la primera vez (ni probablemente la ultima) en que alguien
use este tipo de estereotipo.  Cada vez que veo algo parecido, no puedo
resistir la tentacion de responder.  Referirse a los "cubanos exiliados"
como a un grupo monolitico, bajo la direccion del Alfa 66, Mas Canosa,
o cualquier otro autodesignado representante de "el exilio cubano" es
una falta de respeto al resto de nosotros (si, yo soy Cubano) que nunca 
hemos participado en ningun tipo de proceso para eligir nuestro(s)
"dirigentes" en el exilio.  Mi esperanza es que en el presente caso, el
error cometido no haya sido intencional.

>--hernan

>--			| "If the misery of our poor be caused not by laws of
>Hernan Astudillo R.	|  nature, but by our institutions, great is our sin".
>hernan@cc.gatech.edu	|		-- Charles Darwin,"Voyage of the Beagle"
>College of Computing, Georgia Tech, Atlanta GA 30332 / (404) 853-9390

------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Miguel Oyarzun     |   "... no movement, party, or person can claim 
moyarzun@bbn.com   |    the privilege of infallibility..."
                   |                    Arthur Koestler
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Newsgroups: soc.culture.latin-america
Date: Fri, 11 Sep 1992 15:28:40 -0400 
From: Melanie Lea Barton <mb8s+@andrew.cmu.edu>
Subject: Re: Bigotry, ignorance and racism

This message is regarding Bigotry, ignorance and racism:

I am a caucasian, female graduate student and I must tell you that
virtually every word you wrote concerning the origins of the races and
the intellectual capabilities of said races was absolutely wrong.

There is no scientific proof that black people are less intelligent that
white, hispanic, Asian, etc...That information was created in the 1920s
and 1930s to fuel racist groups and their claims of racial superiority. 
Black men and women have the same potential for intelligence and the
development of that intelligence.  Cultural and societal oppression has
been the difference.  Without adequate opportunities, potential cannot
be developed.

If you take an appropriate look and welfare statistics, you will find
that less that 21% of all people nationwide on welfare are indeed black.
 The reason that black people get so much attention regarding the
welfare system is because only 12% of the overall population is black,
and therefore black people are represented disproportionately on the
welfare rolls.  But this has to do with the cycle of poverty, NOT some
inborn trait in African-Americans.

It is ATTITUDE, not color that creates problems.  With your attitude,
people of color will never be able to achieve because you won't let them
achieve.

Socio-economic status plays a far greater role in achievement as opposed
to racism.

On another note, Polish people are "white" (caucasian).  They do not
constitute a separate race in and of themselves.  And to say that Asian
people are automatically superior to black, white, hispanic people,
etc...is ridiculous!  I am not better than you or a black person, and an
Asian person is not better than me.  You are characterizing people on
the basis of their skin, not their soul.  That is wrong.

When I sat down to write this letter, I wanted to call you names, and
tell you what an idiot you are for saying what you said.  You claim to
be a medical school graduate, but you clearly didn't learn anything
beyond the technical.  For all your education, how can you be so racist?
 How can you be a practicing physician and see people of all races,
creeds, colors, abilities, ages, sexes and sexual orientations and
actually function properly as a compassionate doctor?  Don't you realize
how offensive and unfair you are being?

The only "nigger" in this world is the person who is foolish enough to
continue the stereotype of the black person as lazy, stupid, etc...so
look in the mirror of your soul, sir.  You might learn something.

Melanie Barton
Newsgroups: soc.culture.latin-america,alt.activism,talk.politics.misc
From: ez000281@hamlet.ucdavis.edu
Newsgroups: soc.culture.latin-america
Subject: Re: Clinton on Cuba
Date: 5 Sep 92 05:58:46 GMT
Organization: Computing Services, UC Davis

In<0ee0MGW00awLIGy15L@andrew.cmu.edu> Daniel Reid Helsten writes:

>In-Reply-To: <16780@ucdavis.ucdavis.edu>

>>What he meant by this statement is for us to Speculate.  But it seems Mr.
>>Clinton has some plans in store for Mr. Castro, since he wants to use the Air
>>Base on account of its proximity to Cuba.  Another good reason to vote
>>Democratic and put a progressive president in the White Hose.

>Only if you want a lot of bloodshed on the Cuban and U.S. side.

From a military perspective do you really think Mr. Castro represents a threat 
to the U.S. mainland with his rustbucket Migs??, Perhaps on Castro's army 
you'll get a "lot of" bloodshed, but what is Fidel going to do with his rinky 
tinky air force that runs on Soviet parts which are now non existent?  Even 
Saddam's Air Force played a more formidable enemy against U.S. Air Power in 
comparison to Castro's demorlized pilots who baely have jet fuel to practice, 
and we have all seen what happened to Sadam's planes in a couple of days (which 
BTW was much  bigger and better equipped than Fidel's).  So, perhaps you are 
thinking about the bloodshed in Cuba which can be easily avoided if the U.S. 
also shows a heavy air presence around the island.  

First, it is not to difficult to foresee protests in cuban cities follwed by a 
splinter in Castro's Army.  With U.S. airpower whatever is left of Castro 
forces will have plenty in their hands to be able to deal with a split army. 
Sadam can barely move against the Shiites in southern Irak.  Such airpower can 
be naval, but a relatively inexpensive long term presence of that force would 
require land bases.  Finally, since we have not ruled out any options, the time 
might come when we really want to implement a BLOCKADE of the island if, for 
example, Fidel contines with his cocaine exports.  The embargo is being ignored 
by others so its time to really BLOCK Cuban ports until Castro's totalitarian 
instruments are dismantled.  Finally, such scenarios will give the politically 
correct a new issue for which to mobilize after their ridiculous Dessert Storm 
charade.  So, the Homestead AFB (along with others in the Southern U.S and 
Puerto Rico will give Castro plenty to worry about.   Come on guys!  Wake up! 
The Cold War is over, we won and communism lost!  The time has come for the 
liberation of Cuba!!

Edelmiro

!!Viva Clinton!!
From: dh4w+@andrew.cmu.edu (Daniel Reid Helsten)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.latin-america
Subject: Re: Clinton on Cuba
Date: 5 Sep 92 23:58:43 GMT
Article-I.D.: andrew.4eePcni00awLARLF5P
Organization: Freshman, H&SS general, Carnegie Mellon, Pittsburgh, PA


>Aun no me acostumbro a presenciar la total demagogia que expresan
algunos individuos cuando se refieren a "lo que los EEUU >deben hacer"
con Cuba. Parece que estas personas no pueden entender cuales son los
principios de soberania y libertad que >paradojicamente los EEUU tanto
defienden.
>Para ellos una invasion a Cuba seria la solucion perfecta. En sus
argumentos presentan al poderio de la milicia estadounidense como
>salvacion pues evitarian un derramamiento de sangre. Acaso la invasion
de Panama una vez concluida dejo a esta nacion con un >gobierno titere
--controlado por el Jefe del "Southern Command"-- y a la nacion en una
miseria increible. Las consecuensias de >este atropello que germino
gracias a la politica externa de los EEUU hacia Panama luego del
asesinato de Torrijos aun se 
>etcetera

Bravo!!! Bien dicho.

Que se dejan que cada pais se aprende por si mismo.
Newsgroups: soc.culture.latin-america
From: rahman@ces.cwru.edu (Rahman A. Soomro)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.latin-america
Subject: Rain Relief Fund
Date: 9 Sep 1992 19:43:01 GMT
Organization: Computer Engineering and Science, Case Western Reserve University
Distribution: world
NNTP-Posting-Host: easy.ces.cwru.edu


Dear friends,

Recent rains in Pakistan have caused devastating effects on the 
daily life of the Pakistani people. Scores of people have lost there
lives and more than a million have been homeless.

	I appeal to you to help our brothers and sisters in need
and donate some money to help them. Please send your contribution
(tax deductible) with your name and also I request you to collect 
donations from any source -- your colleagues at work, friends, business
associates, customers, persons from any nationalities and backgrouds
to help people in trouble. 

	We are tying you help suffering peoples, who are suffering
from disease and malnutrition.

Please mail your contributions to:

Pakistan Rain Relief Fund
4105 Providence drive
St. Charles, MO 63304
USA
From: markrose@spss.com (Mark Rosenfelder)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.latin-america
Subject: Re: Pinochet
Date: 14 Sep 92 17:02:01 GMT
Organization: SPSS Inc.

In article <17037@ucdavis.ucdavis.edu> ez007834@hamlet.ucdavis.edu writes:
>Si lees bien yo nuncha hable de la dictadura de Pinochet (que ahora ha sido 
>ligitimizada por todo el pueblo chileno cuando apoyo la Constitucion que lo 
>tiene en las Fuerzas Armadas) sino que hablaba sobre la dictadura totalitaria 
>que estaba implementando el Partido Comunista Chileno junto al Movimiento de 
>Izquierda Revoulucionaria.  

Si hablas del plebiscito de 1980, tienes una fe notable en la significacion
de las elecciones en paises totalitarios.   Sin duda dirias tambien
que el gobierno nicaraguense "ha sido legitimizado por todo el pueblo
nicaraguense" en 1984?

Creo que la derrota de Pinochet en 1988 sen~ala mejor la actitud del pueblo 
chileno en vez de la dictadura.
Newsgroups: soc.culture.latin-america
From: aws@iti.org (Allen W. Sherzer)
Subject: Re: Nicaragua Series -- comments and replies (3/4 ;"Silence of the Left"?)
Organization: Evil Geniuses for a Better Tomorrow
Date: Sat, 12 Sep 1992 14:19:31 GMT


So much for the long awaited part three.

Here Harel attempts to show that the left in general and Harel in particular
have not ignored Sandinsita abuses. Yet this very long posting can only
manage to mention specific Sandinista abuses in one paragraph and only then
to discount them.

So Harel,dispite his stated concern for human freedom, remains unable
to personally condem any Sandinista abuses.

  Allen
-- 
+---------------------------------------------------------------------------+
| Allen W. Sherzer | "If they can put a man on the Moon, why can't they     |
|  aws@iti.org     |  put a man on the Moon?"                               |
+----------------------224 DAYS TO FIRST FLIGHT OF DCX----------------------+
Newsgroups: soc.culture.latin-america