HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: jfw@jfwhome.FUNHOUSE.COM (John F. Woods)
Newsgroups: misc.consumers.house
Subject: Re: This Old House
Date: 15 Oct 92 01:38:36 GMT
Article-I.D.: jfwhome.Bw538F.D0r
Organization: Misanthropes-R-Us

In <1992Oct14.160907.19385@beaver.cs.washington.edu> pauld@cs.washington.edu (Paul Barton-Davis) writes:
>In article <1992Oct13.203044.29571@i88.isc.com> jeq@i88.isc.com (Jonathan E. Quist) writes:
>>If they are going into the project understanding all that, fine.
>>Two blocks from us is a formerly small house.  The realtor advised them
>>that building an addition would not increase the value of the house.
>>The owners did so anyhow.
>I wonder if you have ever considered spending money on something that you
>assuredly never recover if you sell it. A car perhaps ? A stereo system?
>Some clothes ? The "realities of life" are that for various reasons,
>real estate is often the odd man out amongst our typical financial
>investments in that it frequently fails to lose value, and often gains it.

That said, it is frequently more cost effective to obtain more living space
by "simply" moving rather than by building; after the fact expansions usually
cost more than the incremental cost of a larger house (all things being equal,
which they never are, of course), and has the advantage of having a higher
eventual sale value.  THAT said, anyone who has actually done that probably
knows why I put the scare quotes around ``simply'':  just trying to buy my
first house is proving frazzling enough, and I'll bet the process of selling
one is just as enjoyable.  That, plus the hassles of moving and adjusting to
a new neighborhood, might well be worth $40K to someone who isn't insane.
Housing *is* more than just an investment decision.
Newsgroups: misc.consumers.house
From: richg@hatch.socal.com (Rich Greenberg)
Subject: Re: Mysterious Hole
Organization: Hatch Usenet and E-mail.  Playa del Rey, CA
Distribution: usa
Date: Wed, 14 Oct 1992 01:34:05 GMT

In article <1992Oct12.223555.27263@porthos.cc.bellcore.com> stacey@prefect.uucp (24462-lebitz) writes:
>I have recently discovered a large, 5'x5'x5' square hole that is lined with
>cinder blocks in my front lawn about 10' from my house 

It is (was?) a cesspool.  When your area got a sewer line, the cess pool 
was bypassed.  It SHOULD have been filled in, but looks like
there were some shady contractors around when the sewers were going in.  :-)
-- 
                
Rich Greenberg - N6LRT - 310-649-0238 - richg@hatch.socal.com
Newsgroups: misc.consumers.house
From: davel@booboo.SanDiego.NCR.COM (David Lord)
Subject: Re: Inspection report ==> how many $ back?
Reply-To: davel@booboo.SanDiego.NCR.COM (David Lord)
Organization: NCR Corporation, Rancho Bernardo
Distribution: usa
Date: Tue, 13 Oct 1992 16:23:31 GMT

 > How much do you figure we should ask for
 > back, for all the stuff that might be likely to die soon (or
 > should we just walk)?

I think you shouldn't have made an offer you weren't serious about
in the first place. Most of the stuff you describe is stuff that
should have been obvious to you from just a casual look at the house,
the age of the roof, appliances, etc. So now that you've had an
offer accepted and chased off a competing buyer you think that the
seller should buy you all new appliances. People like you disgust
me. Next time put your brain in gear before you make an offer on
the house, what you offer should take into account the condition
of the house and any repairs you expect to have to make. The
inspection is not intended as an excuse to make the seller bring
an old house into like new condition, it's to make sure there are
no hidden surprises waiting for you.
From: bagwill@swe.ncsl.nist.gov (Bob Bagwill)
Newsgroups: misc.consumers.house
Subject: Re: why don't we live in prefab concrete houses?
Date: 16 Oct 92 19:30:09 GMT
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1 PL6]

Bob Bagwill (bagwill@swe.ncsl.nist.gov) wrote:
: Elizabeth Molinaro (emolinar@stake.DaytonOH.NCR.COM) wrote:
: :Anyway: the biggest drawback seems to be:  concrete ain't
: Well, my guess is that most houses never undergo structural

Evidently, Elizabeth thought that my flamish comments were directed
toward her, not toward the subject in general.  I had wanted to pre-but
any forthcoming one-liner rebuttals, not singe Elizabeth.

Oh what a twisted web we weave, when on to Usenet we rant and heave!

--
Bob Bagwill
Newsgroups: misc.consumers.house
Subject: Re: Dealing with ungrounded outlets
From: gary@cdthq.UUCP (Gary Heston)
Date: Thu, 15 Oct 92 19:47:26 CDT
Organization: Garys' Home for Obsolete Computers

doshay@ursa.arc.nasa.gov (David Doshay) writes:

> In article <1992Oct14.183011.4407@ulysses.att.com>, smb@ulysses.att.com (Stev
> |> In article <DRAND.92Oct12111042@spinner.osf.org>, drand@spinner.osf.org (D
> |> >    The other area of concern is bedroom where we
> |> >    want to put a computer.  It has 2 prong
> |> >    outlets.  Will replacing these with GFIs be
> |> >    sufficient?
> |> > 
> |> > Yes.  Find the first outlet on the branch (usually tracing the wiring 
> |> > in the basement is easiest) and replace it with the GFCI outlet.
> |> 
> |> Umm...  I'm not certain I agree with that.  A GFCI will certainly provide
> |> protection for *you*.  It won't provide a good solid ground for the
> |> electronics in the computer, nor for any surge suppressors.
> 
> You must provide a ground. The GFI needs a ground to work. I cannot think of 
> why your computer needs to be on a GFI circuit. I have a house like that in t

NO. NO. NO. A GFCI does *NOT* need a ground to work. Read the 
electrical FAQ. More bandwidth gets wasted on this and "should
I refinance now" than anything else.....

Gary Heston, at home....
gary@cdthq.uucp
From: al@qiclab.scn.rain.com (Alan Peterman)
Newsgroups: misc.consumers.house
Subject: Re: Building near property line
Date: 7 Oct 92 16:33:33 GMT
Article-I.D.: qiclab.1992Oct7.163333.24470
Distribution: usa
Organization: SCN Research/Qic Laboratories of Tigard, Oregon.

In article <39100@sdcc12.ucsd.edu> wade@hobbes.ucsd.edu (Wade Blomgren) writes:
>
>Typically (or 'in your area', or under whatever criteria you care to
>lay out), how close can one build structures such as car ports and
>hot-tub (jacuzzi) gazebos to a property line?  I ask because our next
>door neighbor (in a suburban tract home area with lots of about 6K sq ft),
>having built a hot tub deck right up against the property line aligned
>with our bedroom window, is now installing a car port, consuming more of
>the frontier between the (small) lots.
>
>Can he do this?  Must I complain now or forever hold my peace (as with
>an easement)?  

The distance vary by jurisdiction, and other criteria - BUT, I've
never seen less than a 3 foot setback, except for fences and
common walls.  

Call or visit your city's planning department, or building codes
people.  They'll be glad to give you the exact numbers for your
situation.  If, as I suspect, there are setback requirements, and
your neighbor has violated them, you can (and should) force him to
either pay you for an easment, or to remove his structure.  If
you let the "improvement" sit uncontested, you may be implicitly
agreeing to his infringement on your property.

I'm not a lawyer - just a somewhat experienced landowner - so my
opinion is worth exactly what you paid for it - which is zilch..


-- 
Alan L. Peterman                                 (503)-684-1984 hm & work
                       al@qiclab.scn.rain.com
It's odd how as I get older, the days are longer, but the years are shorter!
From: bagwill@swe.ncsl.nist.gov (Bob Bagwill)
Newsgroups: misc.consumers.house
Subject: why don't we live in prefab concrete houses?
Date: 7 Oct 92 22:31:19 GMT
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1 PL6]

My impression is, after land, labor is the biggest building cost.
Prefab armatures for ferro-concrete, reusable aluminum forms for
poured concrete, and those insulated mesh panels you bolt together
and spray concrete on, all seem like fast and low-labor methods.

Are they too expensive?  Are they too difficult?  Are they too
uncomfortable.  Are they too ugly?  Are they just unpopular?
Commercial construction uses a lot of techniques and materials that
yield a lower cost per square foot than standard residential
construction.  Why don't they use them for houses?

And, where (besides USENET :-) would one find answers to these kinds of
questions?
--
Bob Bagwill
bagwill@swe.ncsl.nist.gov
From: bills@sequent.com (Bill Sears)
Newsgroups: misc.consumers.house
Subject: Re: Mysterious Hole
Date: 13 Oct 92 20:03:06 GMT
Article-I.D.: sequent.1992Oct13.200306.15783
Distribution: usa
Organization: Sequent Computer Systems Inc.

>>>I have recently discovered a large, 5'x5'x5' square hole that is lined with
>
>This is slightly less than 8.5 cubic yards.

_Slightly_ less???!?!??  My calculations work out to about 4 2/3 cubic
yards (5 * 5 * 5 / 27).

  bills
-- 
Bill Sears            Sequent Computer Systems            bills@sequent.com

Civil Rights are not Special Rights			- Anon
Newsgroups: misc.consumers.house
From: jon@destin.dazixco.ingr.com (Jon Stone)
Subject: Re: Problem with existing wiring?
Reply-To: jon@ingr.com
Organization: Dazix - An Intergraph Company
X-Newsreader: GNU Emacs 18.58.1, GNUS 3.14.1, NNTP 3.10
Distribution: usa
Date: Fri, 16 Oct 1992 17:06:51 GMT

>>>>> On Thu, 15 Oct 1992 21:46:54 GMT, jbm@eos.arc.nasa.gov (Jeffrey Mulligan) said:

 Jeffrey> My main concern is that this may be indicative of a high resistance
 Jeffrey> connection in one of the splices in the wall, which might
 Jeffrey> pose a fire hazard.  Any and all comments will be appreciated.

I don't know how old your house is, but according to the NEC, all
splices must be in a junction box and accessible (attic, switch box,
etc.).

Do you have aluminum wiring?  I do, and I recently found and fixed a
similar problem to yours where all of the lights on one circuit would
periodically dim.  The problem was found in an outlet where the
aluminum wires were "plugged in" to those quick connect holes in the
back of the outlet.  All four of the wires' insulation were slightly
darkened, and one connection was about to fall out.  The wiring FAQ
has some to add to this also.

Hope this helps,

Jon


--
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Jon Stone                                                 jon@ingr.com
Intergraph Corporation, Boulder, CO                     (303) 581-2319
----------------------------------------------------------------------
From: richards@sequent.com (Richard Shields)
Newsgroups: misc.consumers.house
Subject: Heat Pumps
Date: 9 Oct 92 20:27:05 GMT
Article-I.D.: sequent.1992Oct9.202705.17822
Organization: Sequent Computer Systems Inc.


My wife and I have been looking at heat pumps recently.  So far we have talked 
to two dealers which both sell Intertherm and Coleman.  Dealer A says we should
by Coleman (which is more expensive) and dealer B says we should by 
Intertherm because Coleman is having trouble with law suits and may go
bankrupt.

Does anyone have any opinions which one is a better value?
Is Coleman really in trouble?

Thanks,
Rich
Newsgroups: misc.consumers.house
From: brunson@davinci.Data-IO.COM (Kaye Brunson)
Subject: Re: why don't we live in prefab concrete houses?
Organization: Data I/O Corporation
Date: Fri, 9 Oct 1992 23:47:49 GMT

My father is building a custom concrete house.  He's using techniques that are
commonly used in industrial buildings.  He is making the exterior walls from cast
concrete, and the interior rooms will be framed with steel "2x4s".  

He's been working on this project for 3 years now, including the time to put in 
septic tank, foundation and footings, and so far he has raised most of the
exterior walls.  He expects to be finished with the exterior this year.  

I've gone out to help pour concrete a couple times.  

In my opinion, this has turned out to be a much more expensive project than it
needs to be because it is not standard for residential construction.  He paid a
fortune to the architect, and then had to spend another fortune for the
structural engineer.  The building inspector makes him have every batch of
concrete tested.  All this because we don't usually make houses this way.  He
could have bought builder plans and skipped most of this expense.

So, the answer to your question is:
	Because we've never done it that way before.

By the way, Dad's reasons for making his house this way are all sound, and
intelligent.  He's a very bright, creative person.  And I don't know if he would
do this all again the same way, but once you get so far into a project, it's
often better to keep going that way.  

Kaye Brunson
Data I/O Corporation
voice: (206) 867-6230
email: brunson@data-io.com
Newsgroups: misc.consumers.house
From: prange@silver.ucs.indiana.edu (Henry Prange)
Subject: Re: Our house has a polterpuddle
Organization: Indiana University
Date: Tue, 13 Oct 1992 14:14:14 GMT

Check the composition of the the puddle. Maybe you have an inaccurate
sleep walker in the household?
Newsgroups: misc.consumers.house
From: GA.MCL@forsythe.stanford.edu (Mark C. Lawrence)
Subject: Re: Building near property line
Organization: Stanford University, California, USA
Distribution: usa
Date: Thu, 8 Oct 1992 00:21:31 GMT

In article <39100@sdcc12.ucsd.edu>,
wade@hobbes.ucsd.edu (Wade Blomgren) writes:
>
>Typically (or 'in your area', or under whatever criteria you care to
>lay out), how close can one build structures such as car ports and
>hot-tub (jacuzzi) gazebos to a property line?  I ask because our next
>door neighbor (in a suburban tract home area with lots of about 6K sq ft),
>having built a hot tub deck right up against the property line ..
>
>Can he do this?  Must I complain now or forever hold my peace (as with
>an easement)?  I mean, what if (not likely, but as an example) I wanted
>to put in a pool, but the equipment needed could no longer fit between
>my house and his added structures?

The setback requirement depends on your local (city or county)
zoning rules.  Typically it depends on both how your property is
zoned, and what kind of thing/structure is being placed.  For example
on my lot in Menlo Park, CA the house must be at least 5 feet from
the side property line, but a garden shed could be closer.  In some
other parts of town with larger lot sizes, the setback is larger.
You should contact your city (or county, if you're not in town)
building inspection or planning department, and ask what the rules
are for your neighborhood.  Then decide if you want to complain.

I'm not sure what you mean about equipment "no longer fitting"
between your house and his structure.  You can't build on his land.
Or do you mean for access to your back yard?  You don't in general
have a right-of-way to use his side yard to get to your back yard,
unless by legal agreement with him.  In most places he would be
allowed to build a fence on the property line, for example.

Mark C. Lawrence
Systems Programmer
Stanford Data Center
Stanford, CA 94305-4136
(415) 723-4976
Organization: Stanford Linear Accelerator Center
Date: Wednesday, 14 Oct 1992 14:21:16 PST
From: Charles Young <YOUNG@SLACVM.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU>
Newsgroups: misc.consumers.house
Subject: Re: Giving a house back to the bank!
 <1992Oct14.201101.26982@cliff.se.hou.compaq.com>

In article <1992Oct14.201101.26982@cliff.se.hou.compaq.com>,
stevep@lugh.se.hou.compaq.com (Steve Pinn) says:
>
>In article <BvuvIz.5HF@encore.com>, mpalmer@encore.com (Mike Palmer) writes:
>|> A friend of mine in Oklahoma has been trying to sell his house for a couple
>|> of years with no luck.  The value is not much more than what he owes the   k
>ban
>|> on it.  What happens if he just stops paying the mortgage?  How does this
>|> affect his credit rating etc.
>
>Mike, I recently refinanced my home and while in the process jokingly asked
>the
>agent what happens when someone walks.  Aside from the evident credit problems
>she also mentioned some sort of attachment that is performed with the
>cooperation of the IRS.  I wasn't paying much attention as I really didn't
>want
>to know the answer BUT, your friend may want to explore the possibility of
>such
>a link. - Steve


I did a bit of reading when we recently refinanced. This is my non-expert
understanding. (For California, other states may be different.)

If the mortgage is a *purchase* loan, the bank cannot go after you for
anything other than taking over your house. *Refinance* does not afford
the same protection. Lenders have the legal right to sue for repayment
from your other assets, including future earnings.


Newsgroups: misc.consumers.house
From: patter@dasher.uucp (24224-guthrie)
Subject: Re: Building near property line
Organization: Bellcore, Livingston, NJ
Distribution: usa
Date: Wed, 7 Oct 92 15:29:08 GMT

In article <39100@sdcc12.ucsd.edu> wade@hobbes.ucsd.edu (Wade Blomgren) writes:
>
>Typically (or 'in your area', or under whatever criteria you care to
>lay out), how close can one build structures such as car ports and
>hot-tub (jacuzzi) gazebos to a property line?  I ask because our next
>door neighbor (in a suburban tract home area with lots of about 6K sq ft),
>having built a hot tub deck right up against the property line aligned
>with our bedroom window, is now installing a car port, consuming more of
>the frontier between the (small) lots.

This varies tremendously - even from block to block in the same town. In
my area, no permanent structures can be erected within 8' of the property
line, and the sum of the clearance on one side of the house and that on
the other side must be greater than or equal to 20'.

>Can he do this?  Must I complain now or forever hold my peace (as with
>an easement)?  I mean, what if (not likely, but as an example) I wanted
>to put in a pool, but the equipment needed could no longer fit between
>my house and his added structures?  

Take your lot and block number to the local governing agency and ask. If
he has a building permit properly posted, he almost certainly has done
this himself and almost certainly has the right to put this in. If he has
applied for an exception to existing zoning rules, you can almost certainly
stop him. He would have been required to post notice of a hearing.

If he *doesn't* have a building permit posted, you can certainly stop him.
You don't have to complain now, though. In fact, you might want to wait
until he's done. Usually illegally erected structures must be demolished.

If I were in your shoes, I'd complain now, though. Just call the local
government and ask for the office that issues building permits and get
ready for one P.O.ed neighbor.

Oh, you may find that the hot tub deck was put up illegally. In that
case, it probably won't be their long. Hell hath no fury like a wounded
bureacrat.

patter@dasher.cc.bellcore.com
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
                    | "Under Consideration": We never heard of it.
George Patterson -  | "Under Active Consideration": We're searching the
                    |    files for it.
                    |         Kelvin Throop - The Management Dictionary
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Newsgroups: misc.consumers.house
From: sdb@redbeard.physics.fsu.edu (Scott D. Berry)
Subject: Re: Removing Old Caulk
Organization: Florida State University
Distribution: usa
Date: Fri, 9 Oct 92 20:56:40 GMT

In article <1952@ncrsmg.DaytonOH.NCR.COM> jcoates@ncrsmg.DaytonOH.NCR.COM (Jim D Coates) writes:
>Hello out there - I need your help.
>I'm getting ready to recaulk my windows. In all of the instructions for
>preparing the windows, it says "remove the old caulk". That's it - it
>doesn't tell you how.
>I got out there one day with an old screwdriver and in an hour I had chipped
>away about two linear feet of the old caulk. At this rate, I should finish
>next spring :-)
>
>My question is: is there a better way to do this? Is there something ...
>Any help/comments would be greatly appreciated.
>
>-Jim
>
Try only removing those sections that are loose or cracked badly.  
If the old caulk is still in good shape, you normally don't need to remove
it.

Scott D. Berry    Assistant Professor of Physics    Florida State University
315 Keen Bldg, B-159, Tallahassee, FL 32306-3016    (904) 644-1218
INTERNET:   berry@redbeard.physics.fsu.edu    BITNET:   berry@fsu
From: rusty@cbnewse.cb.att.com (jane.a.horodeck)
Subject: >>> ARM info <<< 
Organization: AT&T
Distribution: usa
Date: Fri, 9 Oct 1992 16:09:38 GMT
Keywords: adjustable cost-of-funds good deal? FAQ?


Hi!  I am in the process of deciding how/whether to re-finance
my existing mortgage.  Pretty much everyone I know re-finances
to a lower fixed-rate BUT I have learned recently about a loan program
at World Savings and Loan (child of Golden West Financial Corp.)
called "Equity Builder".  It is an adjustable rate, bi-weekly program;
a mortgage payment is applied every 14 days.  I still need to find out
what the interest caps are, how often the rate changes, etc.

What is interesting is that the interest rate is based off the
Cost-Of-Funds Index, COFI.  The way it was explained to me is that
the COFI is the average of ALL savings interest rates paid at ALL
financial institutions/thrifts.  And as we all know too painfully well
interest rates paid by banks, S&L, etc have been extremely low in
recent years.  Hence once advantage of COFI; another is that savings
interest rates do not change dramatically like Treasury Bills.  And
I have assured (by the people who want me to borrow!) that any change
in COFI happens slowly (when was the last time interest rates paid
on your savings account was high?) and takes great periods of time.

The potential lender provided me with various propoganda and all
indications is that with the combination of bi-weekly payments
and the low COFI, this mortgage program is a great deal!  And to
sweeten the pot, there are 0 points... (currently offered at
COFI + 2.1%, 15 years).

But what I REALLY want to know is;
	1. Is this too good to be true (then it probably is)?
	2. What experience have you had with this type of program?
	3. Better yet, who out there has one of these and can vouch
	for the clear advantages with concrete data, like "The fixed
	rates were going for 15% but I have not paid more than 8%
	interest in the last 8 years... ".
	4. Any comments/experiences with either Golden West or
	World Savings?  The glossy literature looks real good...
	
	
regards,
jane
Newsgroups: misc.consumers.house
From: randyw@iplmail.orl.mmc.com (Randy Walker)
Subject: propane generator
Organization: Martin Marietta
Date: Fri, 9 Oct 1992 13:09:44 GMT


  I live in Florida and, after seeing the effects of Hurricane Andrew
  on the Miami area, I want to be able to produce enough electricity
  to run essential systems in my house. I intend to buy a portable generator.

  I am planning to determine the size generator I need by adding the wattage
  used by such items as my well pump, refridgerator, microwave oven, a few
  ceiling fans, solar water heater pump, etc.

  I want to buy a propane generator or convert a generator to run on propane.
  The reasons are:

  1. I want have a supply of fuel on hand, and gasoline has a limited shelf
     life, where propane's shelf life should be unlimited.

  2. I can store several "gas grill size" propane bottles in a small area.

  3. I think that a bottle of propane will run a generator for quite a while.

  Questions:

  1. Do you netters have any info on propane generators or conversion kits?

  2. Is the above reasoning sound?

  3. How else can I make my house self sufficient?