HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: csfed@ux1.cts.eiu.edu (Frank E. Doss)
Subject: Re: Chiropractics?
Date: Mon, 25 Jan 1993 15:40:23 GMT
Organization: Eastern Illinois University

In article <1993Jan22.085034.28988@rtf.bt.co.uk> traub@rtf.bt.co.uk (Michael Traub) writes:
>In article <1993Jan21.013949.11504@netcom.com> rkaplan@netcom.com (Richard Kaplan) writes:
>>An M.D. might be
>>as effective in the long term  and might also make the patient 
>>capable of managing his pain INDEPENDENTLY through
>>an appropriate exercise program, but this would take longer
>>and thus patients may think the chiropractor is more
>>effective.
>
>My wife has been suffering from back pains recently and I urged her to
>see her M.D. He had a look at her back but said he wasn't able to
>do anything and referred her to a chiropractor.
>
>-- 
>Michael Traub
>BT Customer Systems, Brighton Systems Centre. traub@btcs.bt.co.uk

Most Chiropractors I have seen refer patients whose conditions do not
respond well to Chiropractic treatment to MDs.  I would imagine a good MD
would refer patients to a Chiropractor.

Every Chiropractor I have been to has said that the treatment for a
condition is not something that can be done in a few hours or days time.
The body takes time to heal itself.  Chiropractic helps the body heal
itself.  An appropriate exercise program would, more often than not, tend
to be part of the Chiropractor's treatment.

There may be more than treating the PAIN.  One may wish to do something
about the cause of the pain.  This is where pain killers fail.  The
patient would take the pain killers and go out and do what ever it was
that caused the initial injury, thus making it worse.

Personally, I would like to see professionalism between MDs and DCs.  The
rivalry I am seeing from the MDs is pitiful.

Just my $.02 worth.

Std Disclaimers Apply.

-- 
Frank E. Doss                            Academic Computing
csfed@ux1.cts.eiu.edu                    Eastern Illinois University
Xref: sparky misc.health.alternative:724 sci.med.nutrition:2039
From: babineau@bnr.ca (Michael Babineau)
Newsgroups: misc.health.alternative,sci.med.nutrition
Subject: Safe Doses of Vitamin C?
Date: 26 Jan 93 17:06:58 GMT
Reply-To: babineau@bnr.ca (Michael Babineau)
Organization: Bell-Northern Research Ltd.

Current literature suggests that Vitamin C (along with Beta-Carotene)
is one of the most powerful anti-oxidents. Much of what I have read
seems to imply that the RDA for vitamin C is sufficient to prevent
scurvy, but is too low for the body to really utilize in combating 
free-radicals. I have heard the figure of 500mg/day quoted as a 
more realistic dose, but some (namely Linus Pauling) recommend doses
as high as 10g/day. 

The question I have is what is current consensus (if one exists) on 
a "safe" daily dosage for vitamin C. Also what risks do megadoses of
Vitamin C pose to the human body? I already know about the risk of 
rebound-scurvy, and have heard about possible increased risk of 
kidney/bladder stones. Is there anything else I should be aware of?

Michael 
-- 
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
|Michael Babineau           | BITNET: babineau@BNR.CA                    |
|Bell Northern Research Ltd.| UUCP  : ..!uunet!bnrgate!bmerh812!babineau |
|Ottawa, ON. CANADA         |         ..!psuvax!BNR.CA.bitnet!babineau   |
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Newsgroups: misc.health.alternative,sci.med.nutrition
From: npm@dale.cts.com (Nancy Milligan)
Subject: Re: Garlic Gelcaps
Organization: Titan Linkabit Corporation
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1 PL6]
Date: Tue, 26 Jan 1993 22:52:38 GMT

Does eating cooked garlic do the same things as raw garlic?  

--
Nancy P. Milligan 				npm@dale.cts.com
Titan Linkabit		San Diego, CA		cts!dale!npm
		  Gravity is no laughing matter.
Newsgroups: misc.health.alternative
From: rkaplan@netcom.com (Richard Kaplan)
Subject: Re: Chiropractics?
Organization: Netcom Online Communications Services (408-241-9760 login: guest)
Date: Fri, 22 Jan 1993 00:15:06 GMT

In article <1993Jan21.183042.2462@sol.ctr.columbia.edu> bobp@msi.com
 (Bob Pitha) writes:

>chiropractic adjustment of infants starting at a few weeks.  When I
>expressed surprise he went on to say that the process of birth can cause
>subluxations which can pinch nerves and thus interfere with the proper
>functioning of the new body.  He even implied that SIDS could often be
>due to this...

Did you ask him how he knows this?


>  Now, his implication is that chiropractic adjustment is the answer to all
>ills of the human body.  I do not accept that, but I was wondering, is there
>even a shred of logic here?  Not the part about infants - I just included
>that because I found that a rather extreme point to make.  But is is at all
>possible that a subluxation could, even slightly, affect the operation of
>the immune system?  If that's true, then could it be true that adjustment

Is there a shred of logic here?  Maybe -- perhaps enough to 
formulate a reasonable hypothesis.  Is there a shred of
evidence that chiropractic works in this manner?  No,
at least not to my knowledge.  

I would have no objection if a chiropractor wanted to 
portray such beliefs as theories and, free of charge, 
provide such manipulations (as long as there were no
reasonably forseeable potential complications) as
a clinical study.   Under any other conditions, this is
nothing more than fraud IMHO.

-- 
Richard Kaplan M.D.           Medical Software Exchange BBS
806 2nd St. SW # 104          (507) 281-1989 14,400 HST
Rochester, MN  55902          (507) 281-1689 Voice
PP-ASEL-IA     N4VRB          rkaplan@mayo.edu|netcom.netcom.com  
Newsgroups: misc.health.alternative
From: bsimon@stsci.edu (Bernie Simon)
Subject: Re: Analysis of Homeopathy Literature
Organization: None. This saves me from writing a disclaimer.
	<BSIMON.93Jan20074444@elvis.stsci.edu>
	<1993Jan21.015045.12947@netcom.com>
Date: Thu, 21 Jan 1993 12:45:32 GMT

There are two points in your post that I'd like to address. First,
I've never denied the value of scientifically valid evidence. What
I've said is that there are some controlled studies of homeopathy and
that the majority of these studies support its effectiveness. I've
also said that the majority of the support for homeopathy rests on the
clinical experience of its practitioners. You may believe that
clinical experience is not a scientifically valid source of evidence,
but you've never made a case for it. I understand that clinical
evidence has been shown in the past to be faulty by controlled
experiment. However, all empirical evidence, including controlled
studies, are open to falsification. Just because empirical evidence
can be falsified, it does not follow that it is impossible to deduce
anything from such evidence. Homeopathy is a "belief system", but so
is allopathy and all other sciences. The question is what evidence is
there to support it.

Second, it is fashionable on the net to use the phrase "a religion not
a science" when criticizing an idea. I the idea that religion is a
collection of beliefs unsupported by evidence shows a misunderstanding
of the nature of religion. To illustrate the difference, I'd like to
use an analogy. Suppose you were alone in a lifeboat after a
shipwreck. There are two questions you need to answer. First, how do
you row the boat. And second, what direction should you row it in.
In life, science provides the answer to the first kind of question and
religion to the second. The two kinds of questions cannot be analyzed
by the same methods and neither science nor religion can substitute
for another. I know this is off charter, but since this kind of taunt
comes up so often, I thought it needed a reply.
--
Bernie Simon 		What we know comes to so little
(bsimon@stsci.edu)	And what we presume is so much  -- Neruda
		

Newsgroups: misc.health.alternative
From: tms@cs.umd.edu (Tom Swiss (not Swift, not Suiss, Swiss!))
Newsgroups: misc.health.alternative
Subject: Re: Scientific Basis for Homeopathy?
Date: 27 Jan 93 18:52:22 GMT
Organization: The Reality Liberation Front (pixels to the people!)

bsimon@stsci.edu (Bernie Simon) writes:

>medica that lists symptoms only reported by one or two provers. The
>process of proving described above seems well designed to me and the
>only improvement I could come up with is to have some of the provers
>take a placebo.

     The failure to include a placebo and untreated controls makes this
entire process invalid. The results of these "provings" are meaningless
without a control to compare them to!

===============================================================================
Tom Swiss/tms@cs.umd.edu  |  "Born to die"   |   Keep your laws off my brain!
     "What's so funny 'bout peace, love and understanding?" - Nick Lowe 
                     Keep your values off my family.
      "There are two major products that come out of Berkeley: LSD and UNIX.
      We don't believe this to be a coincidence."
      -- Jeremy S. Anderson
Newsgroups: misc.health.alternative
From: rkaplan@netcom.com (Richard Kaplan)
Subject: Re: Chiropractics?
Organization: Netcom Online Communications Services (408-241-9760 login: guest)
Date: Thu, 28 Jan 1993 01:01:32 GMT

In article <1993Jan27.192059.27075@ux1.cts.eiu.edu> csfed@ux1.cts.eiu.edu
 (Frank E. Doss) writes:

>Maybe you ought to conduct a field trip to a Chiropractic College.  The
>two I can think of are Logan and National.  Both produce fine physicians.

Perhaps they produce fine professionals who are good at
temporarily relieving pain.  Perhaps some of them recognize
their limits and thus practice appropriately; unfortunately,
my local newspaper runs ads all the time for chiropractors
who claim to be able to treat asthma, bursitis, and 
ulcers with spinal manipulation.

>A little scientific study of chiropractic probably would shine a bright
>light on a whole new way for you to help your patients get the best care
>possible.

I have already commented upon the circumstances in which 
I believe chiropractors do, indeed, serve a valuable
role.  What I'm arguing here is that many chiropractors
overstep this role.

>Have you ever checked out the boards a DC must go through to get licensed?

No, but I have checked out some of their literature, 
which often makes unsubstantiated conclusions.  I don't
care if it's on the boards or not.... show me the data
that says chiropractic is effective in asthma and ulcers.



-- 
Richard Kaplan M.D.           Medical Software Exchange BBS
806 2nd St. SW # 104          (507) 281-1989 14,400 HST
Rochester, MN  55902          (507) 281-1689 Voice
PP-ASEL-IA     N4VRB          rkaplan@mayo.edu|netcom.netcom.com
From: greg@antizen.EBay.Sun.COM
Newsgroups: misc.health.alternative
Subject: Re: Chiropractics?
Date: 21 Jan 1993 17:08:34 GMT
Organization: Sun Microsystems, Inc.
Distribution: world
Reply-To: greg@antizen.EBay.Sun.COM
NNTP-Posting-Host: antizen.ebay.sun.com


In article 28245@tcsi.com, robert@kohlrabi.tcs.com (Robert Blumen) writes:
> In article <1993Jan20.042327.13943@ucsu.Colorado.EDU>, lorenzo@spot.Colorado.EDU (Eric Lorenzo) writes:
> > 
> > I was wondering what the reasons were for the looking down upon the
> > chiropractic field?  Some people swear by them and others consider
> > them quacks.  A chiropractic spoke during a kinesiology lecture last
> > semester and was greeted with some hostile questions about her field.
> > I, on the other hand, was impressed with what she had to say.  Is there
> > a history behind this stigma that has been associated with chiropractics?
> > 
> 
> Chiropractics has long been villified by the medical profession who don't
> like any competition.  However, the profession of chiropractics has
> extremely shady beginnings.  A fellow named Palmer developed it
> originally, and he was a real snake oil salesman.  One story about him is
> that he had formulas for how long a patient needed to continue to come in
> and be adjusted that incorporated the patient's income as one of the
> dependent variables.   I have heard many stories of chiropractics who
> exploit patients by having them come in for months or years on end of
> "adjustments" without ever really sovling their problems.  In my opinion,
> the field is getting more professional and reputable in recent years.
> 
> -- 
> -----------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Robert Blumen                          | robert@tcs.com
> Senior Software Engineer               | 2121 Allston Way, Berkeley, CA 94704
> Teknekron Communications Systems, Inc. | (510) 649-3759


I knew one woman who was seeing a Chiropractor 3 times a week, and he
specifically instructed her *not* to exercise due to the risk of messing
up the adjustments. It's quite common knowledge that muscle tone is critical
to effective back support.

On the other hand, I've been going to a Chiropractor that uses nutrition,
sports medicine and electronics (to work the muscles) and spends on the
average of 30 minutes with me per appt. Sometimes I need to go in once
a week for awhile and have had as much as 6 months without an adjustment.

Greg


Newsgroups: misc.health.alternative
From: dyer@spdcc.com (Steve Dyer)
Subject: Re: Zovirax and herpesviruses
Organization: S.P. Dyer Computer Consulting, Cambridge MA
Date: Thu, 28 Jan 1993 07:08:40 GMT

In article <1k55bdINNh1g@gvgspd.gvg.tek.com> akh@empress.gvg.tek.com writes:
>Is Zovirax as effective on Herpes Zoster (chicken pox) as it is on
>Herpes simplex (cold sores)?  A coworker of mine with no history of
>chicken pox has recently been exposed (people shouldn't have
>kids--they're hazardous to your health) & his doctor told him there was
>no preventative or curative treatment available.  This didn't sound
>right--is it?

Acyclovir has been used to treat childhood chicken pox and in high doses,
adult outbreaks of shingles.  I'm not familiar off-hand with its use to
ameliorate adult chicken pox, but it would seem likely to be useful in this
regard.

-- 
Steve Dyer
dyer@ursa-major.spdcc.com aka {ima,harvard,rayssd,linus,m2c}!spdcc!dyer
From: lomasm@p4.cs.man.ac.uk (Martin Lomas)
Newsgroups: misc.health.alternative
Subject: Re: How to loose weight permanently ?
Date: 25 Jan 93 19:43:08 GMT

In <1993Jan18.220408.2176@trl.oz.au> rye@medici.trl.OZ.AU (Rye Senjen) writes:


>All this talk about fasting, made me think about loosing weight.
>How can it be done permanently. What do people think/know about
>pritikin diet, fasing etc. RYE

>r.senjen@trl.oz.au

Try a change of lifestyle. I think that there is a strong link with
weight to exercise and stress levels. (High stress incresing weight,
exercise and overall fitness bringing weight nearer to your own ideal.)

A friend has been on the Pritikin diet for a few years now to combat
high blood pressure and also to reduce stress. He claims great success
with the new way of eating.

Try a change and see what happens...

Martin.
From: malcolm@csu.murdoch.edu.au (Hugh Malcolm)
Newsgroups: misc.health.alternative
Subject: Re: How to loose weight permanently ?
Date: 22 Jan 1993 20:57:28 GMT
NNTP-Posting-Host: portia.csu.murdoch.edu.au

rye@medici.trl.OZ.AU (Rye Senjen) writes:


>All this talk about fasting, made me think about loosing weight.
>How can it be done permanently. What do people think/know...

Weight loss is achieved when total calorie input is less than output.
Yes, it really is that simple. Thousands of people are taking billions
of dollars off millions of people based on that one simple principle.
The problem, of course, is not to understand it, but to do it!

--
=================================================================
| Hugh Malcolm / Social Sciences Librarian / Murdoch University |
|  Perth, Western Australia. (Edge of the world, Network ends)  |
| Internet: malcolm@portia.murdoch.edu.au                       |
|                                                               |
| "Da steh' ich nun, ich armer Tor"                             |
=================================================================
Newsgroups: misc.health.alternative,sci.med.nutrition
From: gyoungs@nyx.cs.du.edu (Gregory Youngs)
Subject: Re: Life Extension Foundation
Organization: University of Denver, Dept. of Math & Comp. Sci.
Date: Thu, 28 Jan 93 02:59:03 GMT

green@island.COM (Robert Greenstein) writes:

>Does anyone have the address, or better yet, the telephone number for
>the Life Extension Foundation?
>-- 
>************************************************************************
*****
>Robert Greenstein           What the fool cannot learn he laughs at, thi
king
>green@srilanka.island.com   that by his laughter he shows superiority in
tead
>                            of latent idiocy - M. Corelli
The Life Extension Foundation
Saul Kent, President
2490 Griffin Road
Ft. Lauderdale, Florida 33312
Hollywood area: (305) 966-4886
800 841-5433
800-841-LIFE

Catherine J. Frompovich, Ph.D.
Public Relations Director

From: jeffs@nmdoc1.sr.hp.com (Jeff Silva)
Date: Tue, 26 Jan 1993 19:42:32 GMT
Subject: Re: Chiropractics?
Organization: HP Santa Rosa Site (SRSD MWTD)
Newsgroups: misc.health.alternative

I too have heard of MD's sending a patient to a chiropracter. Just out
of curiosity, has anyone ever heard of a chiropracter sending a
patient to an MD?

--
Jeff
From: kienzle@reg.triumf.ca (KIENZLE, PAUL)
Newsgroups: misc.health.alternative
Subject: Re: Cold Sores
Date: 24 Jan 1993 17:47 PST
Organization: The University of British Columbia
Distribution: world
NNTP-Posting-Host: reg.triumf.ca

Anthony Bulloch (abullock@granet.berkeley.edu) writes...
>My wife finds that the only thing that really helps with herpes
>sores and fever sores is tea tree oil.  The formulation she uses
>is made by Espial: they have it in a very handy gel form, which
>is usually adequate - they also have the pure oil, and for the
>more severe soars a dab of oil followed by the gel is very
>effective.  And there's the added advantage that there are
>no drugs involved.

So, just what is a DRUG anyway? Ever heard of willow bark tea? How about
Aspirin? Same thing (more or less). Find an herbal remedy which works,
break it down to its constituent chemicals, test each to see which one is 
the active ingredient (or which combination), test for side-effects and 
seek FDA approval. Voila! You've got yourself a drug. And there's the added
advantage that the remaining chemicals are not involved.

---
Paul Kienzle
Newsgroups: misc.health.alternative
From: bsimon@stsci.edu (Bernie Simon)
Subject: Re: Immunisation
Organization: None. This saves me from writing a disclaimer.
Date: Mon, 25 Jan 1993 12:55:43 GMT

If you want more information about imunizations, the best book for you
to read is "The Immunization Decision" by Randall Neustadter. This
book discusses each of the common immunizations and the risks
associated with getting or not getting it. If you can't find the book
locally, you can order it from:

Homeopathic Educational Services
2124 Kittredge St.
Berkeley CA 94704
(800) 359-9051 (orders only)
(510) 649-0294 (inquiries/catalogs)




--
Bernie Simon 		What we know comes to so little
(bsimon@stsci.edu)	And what we presume is so much  -- Neruda
From: dean@vexcel.com (Dean Alaska)
Newsgroups: misc.health.alternative
Subject: Re: Scientific Basis for Homeopathy?
Date: 27 Jan 93 19:40:31 GMT
Organization: VEXCEL Corporation, Boulder CO

In article <1993Jan27.003553.14930@netcom.com> rkaplan@netcom.com (Richard Kaplan) writes:
>From the Ullman book:
>
>Page 126 (arguing against the efficacy of antibiotics):
>  "Even mortality from tuberculosis, pneumonia, bronchitis,
>   influenza, and whooping cough was on a sharp decline 
>   prior to the introduction of any conventional medical
>   treatment for them."
>
>This is written in a misleading fashion, so as to
>infer (though not directly state or deny) that
>homeopathy is appropriate (or allopathy inappropriate?)
>for tuberculosis, pneumonia, and bronchitis -- clearly
>not true.   
>
I have seen this before, also.  It suggests that the medical
miracles claimed by the invention of antibiotics are exaggerated.
The belief being that public health policies, such as sanitation,
have been the causes for the decreases in such diseases.  I saw
a reference to a "well documented" book to prove this.  I could
list this ref, but I haven't read it myself.  Such homeopaths
believe that the long term effect of allopathic drugs used for
curing is to shift disease from acute conditions to chronic
conditions.  Since this claim does not relate to the law of
similars in any way that I can see, I do not know if it can
truthfully be claimed to be a part of homeopathic theory.

>Richard Kaplan M.D.           Medical Software Exchange BBS
>806 2nd St. SW # 104          (507) 281-1989 14,400 HST
>Rochester, MN  55902          (507) 281-1689 Voice
>PP-ASEL-IA     N4VRB          rkaplan@mayo.edu|netcom.netcom.com  


-- 
==============================================================================
	Dean Myerson     (aka dingo in boulder)     dean@vexcel.com
==============================================================================
Xref: sparky misc.health.alternative:754 sci.med.nutrition:2058
From: young@clpd.kodak.com (Rich Young)
Newsgroups: misc.health.alternative,sci.med.nutrition
Subject: Re: Validity of Trophology (Food Combining)?
Date: 27 Jan 93 15:29:06 GMT
Article-I.D.: pixel.1993Jan27.152906.9603
Reply-To: young@clpd.kodak.com
Organization: Clinical Diagnostics Division, Eastman Kodak Company
Originator: young@sasquatch

In article <jschwimmer.75.728100162@cardinal.sc107.wesleyan.edu> jschwimmer@cardinal.sc107.wesleyan.edu (Josh Schwimmer) writes:

[...]

>A few questions.  One, isn't ptylain secreted in the saliva WHETHER OR NOT 
>the food is mostly carbohydrates or mostly protein?  Two, aren't the small 
>quantities of enzymes in the saliva significantly denatured by the highly 
>acidic environment of the stomach ANYWAY?  Three, doesn't the acid 
>environment of the stomach kill most of the bacteria there -- and even if it 
>didn't, given the presence of starch, would the effect of the bacteria be to 
>render the nutrients in the protein food "largely useless"?  Is Reid 
>exaggerating?

	Yes.  Trust your instincts.


-Rich Young (These are not Kodak's opinions.)
Newsgroups: misc.health.alternative
From: gweil@ibeam.intel.com (Garry Weil)
Subject: Haemophilus vaccine
Summary: Is this really needed
Keywords: vaccine
Organization: Multimedia Software Technology Group
Date: Thu, 21 Jan 1993 21:13:25 GMT

My wife and I are not comfortable with giving our son vaccinations.
He got the first couple when he was an infant. The we realized that
we had a choice about this stuff. He has not received any since.

What are the thoughts about the Haemophilus vaccine??

Garry
From: traub@rtf.bt.co.uk (Michael Traub)
Newsgroups: misc.health.alternative
Subject: Re: Chiropractics?
Date: 22 Jan 93 08:50:34 GMT
Organization: BT Customer Systems, Brighton, UK

In article <1993Jan21.013949.11504@netcom.com> rkaplan@netcom.com (Richard Kaplan) writes:
>An M.D. might be
>as effective in the long term  and might also make the patient 
>capable of managing his pain INDEPENDENTLY through
>an appropriate exercise program, but this would take longer
>and thus patients may think the chiropractor is more
>effective.

My wife has been suffering from back pains recently and I urged her to
see her M.D. He had a look at her back but said he wasn't able to
do anything and referred her to a chiropractor.


-- 
Michael Traub
BT Customer Systems, Brighton Systems Centre. traub@btcs.bt.co.uk

    JOE, taxi driver: Unemployment will rise and sooner or later the
    masses will revolt against it. There'll be civil disorder and the
    further breakdown of civil society. The end result I hope will be
    the triumph of the people over capitalism. I also wouldn't mind
    if a few more people used taxis this year - '92 was rotten.

(Taken from "Hopes and Fears" in The Guardian, December 31st 1992, a
section which looked at what people saw 1993 bringing)
Newsgroups: misc.health.alternative