From: elf@halcyon.com (Elf Sternberg)
Subject: Re: New Age Androgynous Bisexuals...
Originator: elf@halcyon.com
Reply-To: elf@halcyon.com (Elf Sternberg)
Organization: Pendor, UnLtd.
Date: Fri, 6 Nov 1992 23:38:28 GMT

In article <Bx8oFL.9Iu@newcastle.ac.uk>
     J.W.Harley@newcastle.ac.uk (Jon Harley) writes:

>miket@hermes.tcs.com (Michael Turner nmscore Assoc.) writes:

>>J.W.Harley@newcastle.ac.uk (Jon Harley) writes:

>>>elf@halcyon.com (Elf Sternberg) writes:
>>>>      ... I'm allowed to generalize.  And while I will treat
>>>>each person as a person, androgynous new-age bisexuals are running in
>>>>the red even before they start...

>>Elf didn't say that he didn't like androgyny per se (which is his choice
>>in any case), he said he didn't like androgyny as some kind of "correct"
>>face of bisexuality (if I may interpret, slightly).

>That wasn't my interpretation. He wasn't attacking "correctness" in general,
>he was attacking a specific group.

   Correct.  And just as you're *allowed* to prefer bisexuals in
general, I'm *allowed* to reject, as an individual, mealymouthed,
incense-burning new age idiots who insist until they're red in the face
that they haven't got an ounce of agression in them and that "[I'm]
just part of the patriarchy" because my S/m scenes sometimes epitomize
agression and masculinity, _and_ agression _as_ masculinity.

>When someone comes into bi-space and attacks part of the bisexual community
>(ie new age bisexuals), attacking and seeking to ridicule their beliefs, to
>me that is oppression. I want the bisexual community to be all-inclusive.
>Elf's view seems to be that we should not welcome all bisexuals, only the
>ones he approves of. If I was an androgynous new age bi, I would feel
>oppressed by this.

   Then you're an idiot.  How can _I_ oppress you, Jon?  Usenet is
Hagbard Celine's ideal realm of equals capable of communication; I have
no more power than you do.  I do _not_ want to be all inclusive; I will
not feel comfortable with people who don't shower, and I will not feel
comfortable with people who want me to balance my yin and yang before I
insert my yoni into their lingam!  

>His damn opinion is divisive and negative towards others, so yes.

   Clue to this, Jon.  It strikes me that we're soooo accepting of the
beliefs of others.  It's _okay_ for gay men to find women
uninteresting.  It's _okay_ for straight people to find members of the
opposite sex exclusively exciting.  If someone came in here and said
"I don't find redheads exciting," they'd get a lot of pouts, but I
doubt anyone would question their right to feel that way.  But to say
"I don't find blacks exciting," is to court a lynching at the hands of
the mob, apparently with you in the lead.

   If we're going to celebrate diversity, we should celebrate the
insides as well as the outsides.  We should allow people's feelings to
be as acceptable as their skin color.  There's a world of difference
between "I will treat you as a human being regardless of your <X>," and
"Your <X> makes me hot/wet/hard/ect..."

   You don't like me, Jon, and you don't like my feelings.
   And you know what?  Over the 'net, that's fine with me.

      Elf !!!  ("Come and see the opression inherent in the system!")
-- 
      __        | The post you have just read is real, but it could
      \/        | have been avoided.  Inbreeding is every-one's
Elf Sternberg   | problem.  Contact your local Mormon church to be
elf@halcyon.com | sure you aren't marrying a close relative.
Newsgroups: soc.bi