From: robg@Apple.COM (Rob Griffiths)
Newsgroups: rec.skydiving
Subject: Re: Clouds?! (was Re: the best)
Keywords: safety, legality, VFR, clouds
Date: 25 Aug 92 23:06:24 GMT
Organization: Apple Computer Inc, Cupertino, CA

In article <1992Aug25.190619.27963@leland.Stanford.EDU> eap@leland.Stanford.EDU (Eric Perozziello) writes:
>>
>>Just a couple points from the GA side:
>>
>>  1.  Unfortunately, IFR charts don't have any lil' parachutes.
>
>Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't it FAA rules that you gotta have
>a (less than 6 mo. old) sectional to fly over an area (at less than 
>10k or some altitude)? 

No.  Technically, the FARs do not require ANY charts.  They simply
require that you be familiar with all information required to make
the flight safely.  If you can somehow prove that you've memorized
all the charts, feel free to fly with none.

Also, this implies that for aircraft on an IFR flight plan, NO VFR
charts are required - the IFR charts contain all the information
needed to safely complete the trip.  Many IFR pilots carry sectionals
(I know I do); but none are required.
>>
>>  2.  If an IFR pilot is in cloud and that close to an airport, it means
>>      s/he is doing an approach.  They are bound to very specific routes and
>>      altitudes.  It's not a simple matter of "avoiding the lil' chutes.'

(Actually, I was thinking of departures from non-tower airports.)

>Agreed. There are certain pieces of the air that cannot be safely shared
>(at all times). This is why some airspace is controlled. "parachuting
>activity areas" are not "controlled", but shouldn't GA pilots stay outa
>this space in order to "minimize the risk"?  Most airports tell me to
>stay off the approach below 1000'. I do, because I ain't  stupid.  

Actually, most parachuting activity areas, at least in California, are
indeed, controlled.  Controlled versus uncontrolled simply relates to
cloud clearance requirements.

(Please note that, in the interest of confusing things, the FAA also
uses the terms "controlled" to denote airports with operating towers,
and "uncontrolled" for airports without towers.  Confused yet?)

The main issue here is that a GA pilot, who is not necessarily even
IN the drop zone, could be involved in a really bad incident with
a skydiver -- regardless of whose airspace it is or isn't.  For example,
let's say I'm departing from Yolo County (home of Skydance Skydiving)
on an IFR flight.  The winds are out of the west, and there's a 
broken layer of clouds at 1,500' AGL.  At Yolo, the preferred departure
would be (I belive) off of runway 30 (32?), heading northwest.

If jumpers were in the air, the spot would be northwest of the intended
landing area.  At some point after takeoff, it's completely possible
that my flight path, and the jumpers' descent tracks would cross.

If this happens anywhere near 1,500' AGL, I'm going to have a minimal
chance of seeing anyone.  I could potentially be in the clouds.
If the jumpers are also in the clouds, then I have no chance of 
seeing them.

Avoiding the parachute symbol on the sectional wouldn't help in this
case at all:  Yolo County's drop zone is (correctly) depicted northEAST
of the field.  Note that my hypothetical near-collision can happen
with the pilot doing his/her best to avoid the parachuting areas.
Yes, it can also happen on clear VFR days -- but then, I have a reasonably
good chance of spotting the parachutes.

The other problem in all of this is the radios.  When departing an
uncontrolled airport on an IFR flight plan, you are given a frequency
to use when contacting the controllers.  This is NOT the UNICOM (or
CTAF or whatever) frequency used by the airport (and hence, the
jump planes).  So, there's a reasonably good chance that I wouldn't
hear any of the "Jumpers away!" calls on the common radio frequency.
Please note that it is not only LEGAL for me to be on the departure
frequency, but that it is REQUIRED for an IFR flight plan.  I have
to make a very conscious effort to monitor the CTAF on the second
radio in order to hear the jump plane's calls.  I haven't ever 
departed IFR from a drop zone airport, but I will monitor the CTAF
if I ever do.

It's for this reason that I think both GA pilots AND jumpers should
follow the FARs.  They may not be perfect, but they are the legally
binding rules for everything we (both GA and skydivers) do.  If
everyone is playing by the same set of rules, we all have a much
better chance of surviving the game...

Now, we did have a discussion on rec.aviation a while back about IFR
flights by gliders.  Maybe we could discuss IFR flights for skydivers.
It wouldn't be too bad -- you'd just need to carry some extra equipment
like a gyro-driven attitude indicator, an electric clock, a heading
indicator, etc...but it's probably the two-way radio that would weigh
you down the most :-).

>>  4.  Most GA pilots think skydiving is cool (though they can't understand
>>      why you would jump out of a perfectly good ....   you know the joke).
>
>Actually most (non-DZ ) pilots i know think it's nuts (my brother included). 
>Lack of understanding, I guess.  My brother says he doesn't wanna make a jump
>unless he's punching out in an emergency. I say I don't wanna land with
>the plane unless my reserve is poped in the plane!!  ;^)

Make your brother a deal:  You'll do as many landings in the plane
as he does AFF levels!      :-) :-)

-rob.
-- 
Rob Griffiths    "Listen to me ... would thieves file a flight plan??"
robg@apple.com   PP-ASEL-IA, looking for clouds .... B52s/REM/Erasure!
Newsgroups: rec.skydiving