HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: daveh@ka3uzr.UUCP (Dave Hultberg  )
Newsgroups: rec.scouting
Subject: Help with Council Address
Keywords: need council address
Date: 28 Aug 92 01:21:23 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: Hams Do It With High Frequency

The post office recently returned my letters to two councils.  Does anyone have curr
ent addresses and/or phone numbers for the below councils?  I'm listing the last kno
wn addresses that I used:

Baden-Powell Council                    Southern New Jersey Council
80 Courtland Rd.                        645 North Delsea Drive
Dryden, NY 13053                        Vineland, NJ 08360

Yours in the world fellowship of Scouting,

Dave Hultberg, Cubmaster Pack 196, Keystone Area Council, Eagle Scout '67
Brotherhood member Susquehannock Lodge XI \/\/ \/\/ \/\/, ASTA 1781 (CSPs)

    73 de Dave KA3UZR  Twisted Pair: 717-766-3553  Fidonet: 1:270/101.28  
    Packet: KA3UZR @ K3WKK.PA.USA.NA  UUCP: daveh@ka3uzr.UUCP
Xref: sparky rec.scouting:2806 alt.discrimination:4114 alt.atheism:16519 alt.politics.homosexuality:5681
From: infante@acpub.duke.edu (Andrew  Infante)
Newsgroups: rec.scouting,alt.discrimination,alt.atheism,alt.politics.homosexuality
Subject: Re: BofA and UW can now support discrimination against blacks and Jews
Date: 4 Sep 92 15:14:46 GMT
Followup-To: rec.scouting
Distribution: usa
Organization: Duke University; Durham, N.C.

In article <hill.715545655@galena12> hill@rtsg.mot.com (Karen Hill) writes:
>kutem@turtle1.Berkeley.EDU (Jon Kutemeier) writes:
>
>>Finally, Get off your high horse. Who are you to judge a person's humanity?
>
>I'm not judging anyone. I'm saying that everyone should be treated with
>justice and dignity based on their humanity and nothing else. 
>
>-Karen Hill

So, basically, Karen, what you're saying is that homosexuals have no 
humanity?

What the hell are you talking about?

Get a clue, girl, seriously!

Anyone whois is _human_ should be allowed the same _rights_ as all humans, 
up until the point where what the person does _adversely_ affects others,
i.e. hurts them (and no, hets are not being _hurt_ by homosexuals' 
activities, if a het _thinks_ that the sight of homosexuals is indeed
hurting them, turn you fucking head, het, it's not your concern anyway!)

And yes, I'm het.

later.

andy.
From: dlm@galileo.ifa.hawaii.edu (Deborah Maraziti (aka Spacee))
Newsgroups: rec.scouting
Subject: Re: Words for last verse of _Puff the Magic Dragon_
Date: 27 Aug 92 07:56:42 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: Institute for Astronomy, Hawaii

In article <1992Aug26.184715.23385@murdoch.acc.Virginia.EDU> jpa@holmes.acc.Virginia.EDU (Jayne Ashworth) writes:
>
>The words I have are the familiar Peter, Paul and Mary words and
>end with the verse where the boy grows up and the dragon goes
>into his cave.  I have heard, at a Girl Scout camp many years
>ago, an additional verse where the boy grows up, has a son
>and the son returns to frolic with Puff.  Does anyone have
>the words to this verse?  If you do, please e-mail them to
>me at jpa@virginia.edu - Thanks!  Jayne Ashworth

Ooooh!  Print them here too, please!  We love to sing this song, but
it's so depressing...

Incidentally, I was wondering about the song "Zulu Warrior" the other
day.  The Girl Scout songbook "Sing Together" doesn't print as many
verses as I remember singing as a scout.  Does anyone know if there
is more than is printed there?  Or was it sung over and over again
with different hand/body motions?

Debbie


--
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Spacee                            ~     I'm conducting a search for a
dlm@galileo.ifa.hawaii.edu        ~     planet made of chocolate.
(astronomer in lace)              ~     Funding is hard to come by... 
Newsgroups: rec.scouting,alt.discrimination,chi.general,alt.atheism,alt.politics.homosexuality
From: awerling@nmsu.edu (WERLING)
Subject: Re: BofA and UW can now support discrimination against blacks and Jews
Organization: NMSU Computer Science
	<1992Aug29.145536.3961@cbnewsl.cb.att.com> <+vhntkg@lynx.unm.edu>
	<hill.715369256@galena12>
Distribution: usa
Date: Thu, 3 Sep 1992 03:49:01 GMT

In article <hill.715369256@galena12> hill@rtsg.mot.com (Karen Hill) writes:

> So what we have here, is that anything is ok (moral, whatever) as long as
> someone believes it is and prescribes to that kind of behavior or belief?

Well, if you want to get into philosophy, I bet you are completely
inable to prove that *anything* is "ok."  

> So that must mean that there are no longer any absolutes. 
> Nothing is absolutely  right and nothing is absolutely wrong 
> because someone, somewhere believes it is ok.

How about the basic liberal notion: do anything you want as long as
you don't infringe upon somebody else's rights.

>   What would happen to society under this premise?

What are you suggesting about gay influence upon society?

> Ok...say you have a scout troop where X ( where X is a significant portion of
> the troop) number of scouts and their parents do not prescribe to 
> homosexual behavior. Say also that the scout leader is gay. Who should
> leave...all those "homophobe" scouts and their families or the
> gay scout leader? Who chooses who's rights are more important here? If
> either side leaves, discrimination can be claimed.

You can claim anything.  Anyone can.  Fact is, the homophobe parents
are *BAD*PARENTS* (or at least practicing very bad parenting
techniques).

They are teaching their kids at least three things:
	1. If their kid is gay, they are at the very root of their
	being "immoral." (hint: this leads to suicide)
	
	2. It's okay to discriminate against gay people.
	
	3. While it's not okay to discriminate against black people
	or against women, it's okay to discriminate against gay
	people.

Oh yeah, #4:

	4. Gay people can't be good scouts.

Gay kids are killing themselves left and right, people.  The BSA's
attitude towards homosexuality is a VERY big cause of this.  Religious
fundamentalists help quite a bit too.  Morally indignant bigots, in
general, are the bane of the nation.

--
Andrew Werling   awerling@nmsu.edu   yip@acca.nmsu.edu
"now we find sodom strange take it out put it in your mouth how do you like
gomorrah now a taste of this swallow that feel the fish hide the hat ezekial
where's your wheel you better grease it GREASE GREASE GREASE GREASE! ROCK!!!"
       --Chainsaw Kittens, "Ezekial Walks Through Sodom and Gomorrah"
Newsgroups: rec.scouting
From: rweisbe@starfleet.nswc.navy.mil (Bob Weisbeck)
Newsgroups: rec.scouting
Subject: 1957 USA Scout Jamboree
Date: 4 Sep 92 19:11:35 GMT
Organization: Naval Surface Warfare Center

I have a friend who was cleaning out his attic and passed along
a book from the 4th US jamboree in 1957 (maybe 58 I can remember 
now and don't have the book with me).  The book is in great condition.
The jamboree was held at  Valley Forge National Park.  It has a lot of
pictures of events that happened throughout the jamboree. 

   As I looked through this book I wondered what people would think
if the same things were done today.   For instance, one of the cermonies
(opening or closing) had a fireworks display that included a lighted
display of a cross and underneath a Star of David.  I was wondering
what people of this group might think if that were done at the next
jamboree..

 Another thing that was mentioned is that they cleared an area (I guess it
was in the National Park) for everyone to sit on the hill side to see the
stage. The caption talks about clearing the trees and sitting on the newly
planted grass.  I don't believe that the National Park service would do that
today. Don't they have a policy to maintain the scenary as is and not destroy
it?   (Of course the foresty dept allows clear cutting but that is a different
dept.).

 One last question is I just started collecting patches from the jamborees in
the last 7 years. I was wondering if people collected books like this and what
the value might be?  Do they still give or sell booklets like this to scouts 
that attend today's jamborees?
Newsgroups: rec.scouting
From: johnw@psychnet.psychol.utas.edu.au (John Wanless)
Subject: Re: History of Scout Promise & Law 
Organization: Psychology Department, University of Tasmania
Date: Sun, 23 Aug 1992 23:35:57 GMT

Subject: HELP- History of Scout Promise  
>>>Date: Thu, 13 Aug 1992 22:36:27 GMT
>>>To fellow Scouters,
>The history is something of a mystery still but here is more info on the  
>Scout Laws  & Promise.
>The Scout promise as we in Australia know it is as follows,
>>On my honour,
>>I promise that I will do my best,
>>To do my duty to my God and
>>To the Queen of Australia,
>>To help other people,and
>>To live by the Scout Law.
>
>For those interested in the world wide differences in the Scout Laws here is 
>our version,
>1	A Scout is Trustworthy
>2	A scout is Loyal
>3	A Scout is Helpful
>4	A Scout is Friendly
>5 	A Scout is Cheerful
>6	A Scout is Considerate
>7	A Scout is Thrifty
>8	A Scout is Courageous
>9	A Scout is Respectful
>10	A Scout cares for the Environment
>
>All Units run mixed membership with the Scout Law and promise being the same 
>for Scouts upwards while the Cubs have a simpler version of the Scout 
>Law. Here are the age groups as we use them,
>	Joeys 6-8yrs
>	Cubs  8-10 yrs	
>	Scouts 10-14 yrs
>	Venturers 14-18 yrs
>	Rovers 18-23 yrs
>If anyone needs any more info please contact me direct,
>
>John Wanless
>Venturer Leader 
>1st Blackmans Bay Scout Group
>Hobart, Tasmania  Australia
Xref: sparky rec.scouting:2640 alt.discrimination:4023 alt.politics.homosexuality:5572
From: zeus@ccwf.cc.utexas.edu (Mark Gansle)
Newsgroups: rec.scouting,alt.discrimination,alt.politics.homosexuality
Subject: Heredity of homosexuality
Date: 28 Aug 92 15:45:58 GMT
Reply-To: zeus@ccwf.cc.utexas.edu (Mark Gansle)
Followup-To: rec.scouting

klin@husc8.harvard.edu (Karin Lin) writes:
-->
In article <1992Aug26.202556.13205@spdc.ti.com>
achenbac@epcot.spdc.ti.com (Jeff Achenbach) writes:
>
>I have a little hard time believing this(born gay). If there was a gay gene, 
>wouldn't it have been lost somewhere along the way? 

"If there were a gene for blue eyes, wouldn't it have been lost somewhere along
the way?"
-->

I think what Jeff was saying was that a gene for homosexuality must
necessarily be evolutionarily disadvantageous.  Women and men who had no
desire to have sex with members of the opposite sex would be unable to
bear children and so unable to pass the gene (or genes) for
homosexuality on to offspring.  Perhaps, one might argue, that the genes
for sexuality are extremely touchy and the slightest mutation can change
heterosexuality into homosexuality.  This may be possible, but I think
it is an idea offensive to most.

There is in fact little evidence to support the idea that homosexuality
is hereditary ("nature made me this way").  The best anyone can come up
with is a statistical *correlation* between the size of a gland in the
brain and homosexuality.  There is no evidence for causation in any
form.  Also, a twins study with about 50% match-up of homosexual twins
is often cited as evidence, but of course that fifty percent is not a
very strong indicator of heredity.  Even if we assume heredity, we're
left with the conclusion that a large percentage were anle to *choose*
not to be homosexual.

And therein lies the difference between racism and discrimination
against homosexuals.  One is proven to be hereditary and so cannot be
changed and is not a subject for ridicule.  The other seems very likely
to be a personal choice, and like all personal choices, is subject to judgment.

+-------------------------+-------------------------+
|Cloud-gathering Zeus     |Think globally.          |
|                         |Act locally.             |
|zeus@ccwf.cc.utexas.edu  |Eat my shorts totally.   |
+-------------------------+-------------------------+


Xref: sparky rec.scouting:2787 alt.discrimination:4099 chi.general:949 alt.atheism:16479 alt.politics.homosexuality:5667
From: max@hilbert.cyprs.rain.com (Max Webb)
Newsgroups: rec.scouting,alt.discrimination,chi.general,alt.atheism,alt.politics.homosexuality
Subject: Re: BofA and UW can now support discrimination against blacks and Jews
Date: 3 Sep 92 18:55:35 GMT
Article-I.D.: hilbert.1992Sep3.185535.7032
Organization: Cypress Semiconductor Northwest, Beaverton Oregon

In article <1992Aug28.085805.11612@mintaka.lcs.mit.edu> mycroft@hal.gnu.ai.mit.edu (Charles Hannum) writes:
>
>In article <1992Aug24.214806.819@rtsg.mot.com> yorton@rtsg.mot.com
>writes:
>>
>> Thirty years ago there would have been people saying that a black
>> man would not have made a good role model.  Why?  Because of bigotry.
>> And that is *learned* behavior.
>
>How can one assert that sexual orientation is predetermined, but
>bigotry is learned?  What's the conceptual difference?  They are both
>forms of discrimination, one accepted, the other not.

Simple. Sexual orientation can be nearly impossible to change.
Psychiatrists have given up - and their failure is not for lack of
effort. You think those gay and lesbian teens that shoot themselves
wouldn't rather be straight?

>
>-- 
> \   Charles Hannum, mycroft@ai.mit.edu
> /\  White heterosexual atheist male (WHAM) pride!
Newsgroups: rec.scouting
From: tbjorkho@abo.fi (Tom Bj|rkholm AT)
Subject: Re: How about..
Organization: Abo Akademi University
Date: Sun, 30 Aug 1992 16:05:04 GMT



> Could someone start a rec.scouting.policy

How about starting a rec.scouting.BSA (which could be further
divided).

The newsgroup rec.scouting was started on the initiative of a
scout from Switzerland (Europe). There are a lot of people all
around the world that read rec.scouting, but a lot of good 
stuff is drowned by the internal BSA policy debate. 

I think a lot of countries have their own national scouting 
newsgroups. (At least we have one in Finland.) I see 
rec.scouting as a newsgroup for issues that interest 
scouts across the national borders.

Best regards,

Tom
----
-- 
Tom Bjorkholm
Process Design Laboratory             Phone: +358 21 654 863
Department of Chemical Engineering    Fax:   +358 21 654 479
Abo Akademi University                Internet: tbjorkho@ra.abo.fi
Newsgroups: rec.scouting,alt.discrimination,alt.politics.homosexuality
From: johnhall@microsoft.com (John Hall)
Subject: Re: BofA and UW can now support discrimination against blacks and Jews
Date: 27 Aug 92 23:19:17 GMT
Organization: Microsoft Corporation

Following up to myself because I type to fast.

In article johnhall@microsoft.com (John Hall) writes:
| In article jkusters@zeus.calpoly.edu (Chrome Jester) writes:
| | Is it just me?  Or is there something wrong here?
| 
| I see something wrong here.  Inviting him to leave privately
| (assuming he was completely innocent.)

would have been a more enlightened policy.  [Assuming the
policy of exclusion is given.]


-- 
-------------------------
My comments are my own.  They are independent and unrelated to the
views of my company , relatives or elected representatives.
From: bfmadore@daisy.uwaterloo.ca (Blair Madore)
Newsgroups: rec.scouting
Subject: Re: Definition of "Scouting Spirit"
Keywords: Scouting Spirit Scoutmaster Conference
Date: 31 Aug 92 18:01:22 GMT
Organization: University of Waterloo

In article <1992Aug27.132139.15829@phx.mcd.mot.com> eam@phx.mcd.mot.com (Ed Mohrman) writes:
>As Scoutmaster for 5 years, I have been in the position many time of 
>signing off for the requirement for "Scouting Spirit". 
>
>I wonder what other units are doing on this? I want to make Scout rank a
>credible achievement. At the same time, I dont want my unit to be 
>significantly harder than other BSA units.
>
>Any input would be welcomed.

We don't have such a requirement in Canada, but as part of the 
investiture requirements boys are expected to Understand, not just
recite, the Scout promise. In particular most boys have a lot 
of trouble with the "love and serve God" portion.

As a leader, I ask boys to consider this phrase, then ask them 
questions like:
1) Do you believe there is a god?
2) Tell me about your god.
3) Why do you believe this?
4) How is your religion different from others?

For many boys it's the first time they are forced to REALLY think
about God. IMHO it's the toughest part of the promise.
We never fail anyone on this, even if they're atheists or agnostics.
We just expect them to really think about it.

This isn't the same as "Scouting Spirit", but try asking the boys if they
have Scouting Spirit, and if so why they think they do.
At the very least you'll be entertained by their responses.

Blair Madore
Asst. Troop Scouter
5th Waterloo Scouts
Xref: sparky rec.scouting:2655 alt.atheism:16115
From: bobb@vice.ICO.TEK.COM (Robert Beauchaine)
Newsgroups: rec.scouting,alt.atheism
Subject: Re: BofA and UW can now support discrimination against blacks and Jews
Date: 28 Aug 92 19:26:03 GMT
Followup-To: rec.scouting
Organization: Tektronix, Inc., Beaverton,  OR.

In article <1992Aug28.030524.11674@cbnewsl.cb.att.com> stank@cbnewsl.cb.att.com (Stan Krieger) writes:
>Unlike legitimate minorities, a person's sexual
>behavior, as well as such other anti-societal behavior such as
>commune living, drug usage, or religious cult membership, is a
>person's choice.  A person whose ancestors are from Japan or
>Africa didn't have a choice.
>

  I should have known even before I hit the .sig that it would be
  Stan who would base such a prejudiced, intolerant, arrogant,
  asinine, shit-headed argument such as this on a fact that he can
  merely cling to out of unfathomable ignorance and misinformation.

  So, did I say anything new, you waste of skin?

/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\ 

Bob Beauchaine bobb@vice.ICO.TEK.COM 

"If I have to resurrect you, I'll resurrect you, whether you like it
or not!"
	 Paul to Jesus, _The_Last_Temptation_of_Christ_

"For dying is not to be feared--it is the final comfort.  As we all
learn, eventually."

  --Robert Heinlein
From: kati@glnserv.UUCP (Lady Dragon)
Newsgroups: rec.scouting
Subject: Scouting Games
Date: Wed, 02 Sep 92 06:42:23 CDT
Organization: Vermi-net, Houston, Tx. 77098

Thanks to those of you who have posted the Wide Games.

* * email address: nuchat!xcluud!glnserv!kati * Houston, Texas, USA, Earth * *
From: johnhall@microsoft.com (John Hall)
Subject: Re: BofA and UW can now support discrimination against blacks and Jews
Date: 23 Aug 92 23:43:57 GMT
Organization: Microsoft Corporation

| In article <1992Aug23.005815.15343@microsoft.com> johnhall@microsoft.com (John Hall) writes:
| >| And now the challenge: Can you suggest a policy that would include the
| >| BSA while excluding the KKK? 
| >A prohibition on funding for groups that discriminated on the
| >basis of race or advocated such.
| 
| What about, say, a group that let in blacks but still preached 
| hatred of Jews? Can you suggest a policy that would do so here?

The challenge you posed was to create a policy banning the KKK but
not the BSA, and I did so.  I did not attempt to describe a policy
that would ban all noxious groups.  Don't change the rules.

In general, I have no opposition to a group of A's creating an
organization by and for A's.  I make exceptions for groups
of A's who preach antipathy/hatred for non-A's.

Racially exclusive groups tend to fail the above exception test
at some point.  Due to the history of such things, discouraging
groups like is good public policy.

In the case of the BSA, their percentage of A's/total population
is high -- probably 40%.  [Not high enoungh to include me,
though.]  Their arguements for not making it higher are internally
consistent and I don't find them malicious.  Also rememeber that
the GSA cover another 40%.

-- 
-------------------------
My comments are my own.  They are independent and unrelated to the
views of my company , relatives or elected representatives.

Newsgroups: rec.scouting,chi.general
From: kenk@sdc.com (Ken Konecki)
Subject: Re: Crossposting articles with rec.scouting (was Re: BofA and UW ...)
Organization: Systems Development Corporation
Date: Fri, 28 Aug 1992 13:47:20 GMT

In article <1992Aug27.193624.19749@m.cs.uiuc.edu> kadie@herodotus.cs.uiuc.edu (Carl M. Kadie) writes:
>>  I've never understood cross-posting. An interesting topic in 
>> alt.politics.homosexuality can't be expected to generate the
>> same enthusiasm in rec.scouting or chi.general.
>[...]
>
>It can if it involves news about scouting in Chicago, as this one did.

Don't be a Netnews moron.  If it's news about scouting in Chicago, it belongs
in rec.scouting with a chi distribution.  It doesn't belong in
chi.general. If you don't understand why, perhaps you need to spend some
time reading the news.newusers group for a while.

Cheers,
    -Ken K
-- 
Ken Konecki
e-mail:kenk@sdc.com    -or-    ...!uunet!tellab5!sdc!kenk
"I just found out that the brain is like a computer.  If that's true,
then there really aren't any stupid people.  Just people running DOS."
Newsgroups: rec.scouting
From: dlm@galileo.ifa.hawaii.edu (Deborah Maraziti (aka Spacee))
Subject: Re: Philadelphia trip - thank you!!!
Keywords: Fun...Fun...Fun!!!
Organization: Institute for Astronomy, Hawaii
Distribution: usa
Date: Thu, 27 Aug 1992 19:06:46 GMT

In article <1992Aug26.134327.1882@oracorp.com> kathy@oracorp.com () writes:
>
>The Philadelphia trip was wonderful!  What an opportunity
>to mix history, culture and a lot of fun into a few short days.
>
Could you post an abbreviated itenerary of your trip and let us know
which sites/activities the girls enjoyed the most?

Thanks!
Debbie


--
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Spacee                            ~     I'm conducting a search for a
dlm@galileo.ifa.hawaii.edu        ~     planet made of chocolate.
(astronomer in lace)              ~     Funding is hard to come by...
From: wjturner@iastate.edu
Newsgroups: rec.scouting
Subject: Re: Definition of "Scouting Spirit"
Keywords: Scouting Spirit Scoutmaster Conference
Date: 31 Aug 92 18:58:12 GMT
Organization: Iowa State University, Ames, IA

In article <1992Aug27.132139.15829@phx.mcd.mot.com> eam@phx.mcd.mot.com (Ed Mohrman) writes:
>
>During our troop adult leader meeting, we reviewed this issue and 
>established some concrete criteria. We set:
>
>1) Attend at least 50% of the regular meetings
>2) Attend at lest 50% of the troop outings
>3) Display a positive attitude toward others
>4) Boys holding leadership positions should be fulfilling their duties
>5) Participate in a t lest one service project per year
>6) Pay their dues
>
>1-3 are expected from all, 2 or more from 4-6 are expected.

Why is (6) on the list in the first place, and then why is it not
required for all?  (In other words, why can a boy do 4 and 5, but 
6, and still be passed?)

I don't believe (6) should be used in considering Scout Spirit.  I
think it should have been taken into consideration *before* the
Scoutmaster Conference.  By definition, a boy is not registered in 
the BSA without paying their dues, and a non-member cannot earn 
ranks.

Will Turner
ASM, Troop 182, Ankeny, Iowa, Mid-Iowa Council
Eagel Scout class of 1987
Vigil Honor member, Mitigwa lodge #450, W.W.W.

-- 
Will Turner,  N0RDV		 --------------------------------
wjturner@iastate.edu		| Whatever the mind can conceive |
twp77@isuvax.iastate.edu	| and believe, it can achieve.   |
TURNERW@vaxld.ameslab.gov	 --------------------------------
Newsgroups: rec.scouting