HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: basinski@biosci.arizona.edu (Mark Basinski)
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical.guitar
Subject: Brazialian Rosewood (was Re: <None>)
Date: 14 Dec 92 18:04:41 GMT
Followup-To: rec.music.classical.guitar
Organization: Univ. of Arizona

In article <19506.2b28ed58@levels.unisa.edu.au>, xarjp@levels.unisa.edu.au
wrote:
> 
> I see that Brazilian Rosewood has been placed on the endangered species
> list.
> This means, I believe, that trade in objects (guitars) constructed from 
> this material is forbidden (criminal offence), regardless of the time of 
> construction of the object. International transport of objects constructed 
> from the material will result in customs seizure of the object, without 
> compensation.
> 
> In other words, the same rules as ivory.
> 
> I'm sure I'll be corrected if I'm wrong.
> 
> Cheers, Rob Potter

   There's a good article by luthier R. Brune' about the situation with
brazilian rosewood and the recent international regulations on trade in
the latest SOUNDBOARD (winter issue?). If anyone's interested, e-mail
me, and if I get really bored, I'll type up a summary and post it.

   I don't have the article with me, but I believe he said that trade in
objects (like guitars) is permitted if the date of construction is before
a certain time, BUT there is the issue of cumbersome export permits, etc.
In short, if you're traveling with a guitar, you shouldn't have problems,
but if you are trying to export instruments (or import) you probably
will. The article gave some suggestions about who to write to (and who
not to).
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Mark Basinski      Internet: basinski@biosci.arizona.edu
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
From: johnme@ecs.comm.mot.com (John Meyer)
Subject: Re: The BEST finale!
Organization: pcb_design
Date: Thu, 17 Dec 1992 05:52:40 GMT

In article <1gnii7INNibh@master.cs.rose-hulman.edu> stinerkt@NeXTwork.Rose-Hulman.Edu (Kevin T Stiner) writes:
>I just listened to Brahm's Symphony #1 over and over and over...  The  
>final movement is possibly the BEST ending to a classical piece I have  
>ever heard!  That sparked me to ask this question to find out what else I  
>should listen to to hear some amazing endings:
>
>What is YOUR favorite ending or finale to a classical piece?
>


 Mahlers' 9th
 Bruckners' 8th
   Both great masterpieces


 john

Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
From: rwilmer@carrier.mitre.org (R. Wilmer)
Subject: Re: Too Polite (was Re: news: pavarotti booed out
Organization: Mitre Corporation, McLean, VA
Distribution: rec
Date: Tue, 15 Dec 1992 15:56:56 GMT

In article <1992Dec15.150531.19216@news2.cis.umn.edu> jill@gopher.ccbr.umn.edu (Jill Hollifield) writes:
>I live in Minnesota, "Home of the Obligatory Standing Ovation" (tm).
>I have never been to a concert where there wasn't a SO, whether
>the performance was good, bad, or indifferent.
>
>So, my questions:  Does this happen anywhere else?  And what are *your*
>criteria for a standing ovation?  What has to happen to bring you
>to your feet?

I live in Washington and have also heard unmemorable performances
greeted with standing ovations.  Although I have shouted ``Bravo''
in opera houses, the only time I can remember leaping to my feet
(and shouting ``Bravo'') was after hearing Rudolf Serkin play
the long (opus posthumous I believe) Schubert A major sonata
(not the short A major sonata).  Untypically, I stood and shouted
alone and someone behind me muttered ``People in this city
will stand up for anything.''

Richard

Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
From: gmw1@cunixa.cc.columbia.edu (Gabe M Wiener)
Subject: Re: Requia
Reply-To: gmw1@cunixa.cc.columbia.edu (Gabe M Wiener)
Organization: Columbia University
Date: Sat, 19 Dec 1992 07:16:38 GMT

In article <1992Dec14.184034.8975@jhunix.hcf.jhu.edu> velde2@jhunix.hcf.jhu.edu (Francois Velde) writes:
>
>A French humorist used to make fun of such pedantry by suggesting 
>that the plural of "autobus" (or bus in English) should be autobi.

I'm sorry.  I can't resist the temptation.  Here it is:

			    THE MOTOR BUS

		   What is this that roareth thus?
			Can it be a Motor Bus?
		    Yes, the smell and hideous hum
			 Indicat Motorem Bum!
		     Implet in the Corn and High
			Terror me Motoris Bi:
			 Bo Motori clamitabo
		       Ne Motore caedar a Bo --
			Dative be or Ablative
		     So thou only let us live: --
		   Whither shall thy victims flee?
		    Spare us, spare us, Motor Be.
		     Thus I sang; and still anigh
		      Came in hordes Motores Bi,
		       Et complebat omne forum
			 Copia Motorum Borum.
		   How shall wretches live like us
			Cincti Bis Motoribus?
			 Domine, defende nos
		       Contra hos Motores Bos!

				-- A. D. Godley
-----

ObMusicalRemark:  The Tallis Scholars have recorded a fair number of early
requiem masses (such as the Cordoso), all of which are worth checking out,
if you in fact don't already own them.


--
Gabe Wiener - Columbia Univ.     "This 'telephone' has too many shortcomings 
gmw1@cunixa.cc.columbia.edu       to be seriously considered as a means of 
N2GPZ in ham radio circles        communication. The device is inherently of
72355,1226 on CI$                 no value to us." -Western Union memo, 1877
From: jdooley@maemaster.eng.uci.edu (John R. Dooley)
Subject: Re: Requia, pass 2
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
Organization: University of California, Irvine
Date: 15 Dec 92 18:49:55 GMT

In article <mrqbpi8@Unify.Com> dbrus.Unify.Com.ceb@unify.uucp (Caroline E. Bryan) writes:

>
>Requia I have listened to and loved:
>
>  [Many fine works (but strangely not Britten's War Requiem) deleted.
>
>So, whose requiem am I committing a criminal act of being ignorant of?
>

Benjamin Britten's War Requiem.  (Try Hickock on Chandos.)
You'll be pleased to learn though that the offense is not capital.

John D.

Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
From: johnr@bohra.cpg.oz.au (John Reid)
Subject: Re: Wagner and Jews?
Organization: Computer Power Software Group Pty Ltd
Date: Mon, 14 Dec 1992 22:19:00 GMT

bellmann@qut.edu.au writes:

>In article <1992Dec9.012721.4208@cs.ucla.edu> pierce@lanai.cs.ucla.edu (Brad
>Pierce) writes:

>> the composer's odious view of Jews. (I do still find it troubling that the
>> music-"consuming" public isn't made more aware of these views.)

>What for, may I ask? What good would come around by making the music-consuming
>public more aware of irrelevant facts? Why not let them enjoy the music instead
>of telling them they should not on the grounds of ideological reasons?
>My mother always disliked Richard Strauss because she knew of his supposed nazi
>sympathies. The first time I heard the "Metamorphoses" I was overwhelmed, and I
>still think it's one of the best pieces of music ever written. Now, many argue
>that it is really a requiem for the Third Reich. I don't know, I suppose it
>might be. Others think it's a requiem for the Dresden Opera. But what does all
>this matter? I guess we agree music is not a language, it does not convey ideas
>so whatever the source of the composer's inspiration it's irrelevant to the
>feelings the piece may evoke in us. His ideology surely had some part to play
>on the genesis of the music, but its effect was limited to the biochemistry in
>the composer's brain. All we know is the final product of this process, and it's
>silly to believe that it is somehow magically contaminated by malevolence,
>bigotry, sexual deviance or mysticism. I can understand the reaction of the
>survivors of the Holocaust to Wagner's music, but the people who was born after
>the war don't have a good case for rejecting it. It's just their loss.

>Hector

I have always been suprised that people continued to hold "Nazi" views
against Wagner, when there is little if any evidence that his views were in
any ways out of step with his times. His great problem was that in a later
era a former Austrian house painter. It should be remembered that Wagner
was living at a time when Germany was becoming a unified nation, and
nationalistic ideas were common throughout Europe. It is therefore harly
suprising that he managed to write operas that involved, in some cases,
nationalistic themes,specifically germanic ones. 

Interestingly, Bernard Levin, a British journalist of considerable
reputation, who also happens to be an opera lover, and who just happens to
be Jewish, I have heard talking on Wagner. He didn't seem to believe that
anti-semitism was an all-consuming passion for Wagner. 

Richard Strauss is another matter; I've long understood that he was a
paid-up member of the Nazi party.

--
John Reid                                   ACSnet : johnr@bohra.cpg.oz.au
CP Software Export Pty Ltd,                 Phone  : +61 3 823 0222
19 Cato Street, Hawthorn 3123 Australia     Fax    : +61 3 824 8068
ACN 006 640 133
From: graziano@ravel.udel.edu (Lisa Marie Graziano)
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
Subject: favorite endings
Date: 16 Dec 92 19:47:20 GMT
Distribution: na
Organization: University of Delaware


Brahms, symphony #1
Brams, piano quintet in...in... oh no! I can't remember! I'll look it up.
(A minor, maybe?)
Beethoven, end of 1st movement of "Tempest" sonata. 
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
From: jwa@vipunen.hut.fi (Jyrki J Wahlstedt)
Subject: Re: Reply to Greatest Living Pianist
Organization: Helsinki University of Technology, Finland
Date: 13 Dec 92 22:51:27

In article <1992Dec10.191936.18376@husc3.harvard.edu> vnguyen@husc10.harvard.edu (Vinh Nguyen) writes:

>I'll throw my vote in for the one and only Richter as well,
>with perhaps a close second vote (if not a tie -- nah!) for
>Emil Gilels (but alas, Gilels has been long dead!)! 

>Top tier: *Sviatoslav Richter, Emil Gilels, Rudolf Serkin, Artur
>Rubinstein, Walter Gieseking, Dinu Lipatti, Wilhemn Kempff, 

  Perhaps among the living ones Richter is the top name, but
  how on earth can you have missed Glenn Gould from your list (at
  least I couldn't find his name, did I overlook something)?
  He is a lot more controversial figure than Richter, but in
  many recordings, where the pieces are the same as in some Richter's,
  the result is IMHO in Gould's favour. And he died only ten years ago.
  He undoubtedly should be in top tier.

[stuff deleted...]
>*(I have a mental block here: A Japanese female pianist, 2nd prize
>in the 1975 Chopin competition, has recorded a wonderful set of
>Mozart Sonatas, a strong set of Mozart concerti, the Chopin Sonatas,
>the Debussy Etudes ...)

  something in my subconscious suggests the name Mitsuko Uchida
  (might be completely wrong).

--
!
!	Jyrki Wahlstedt
!		Jyrki.Wahlstedt@hut.fi
!
!  Our life is no dream, but it should and will perhaps become one.
!
From: cneal@ccwf.cc.utexas.edu (Chris Neal)
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
Subject: Re: Do U.S. clarinet sections use identical instruments?
Date: 16 Dec 92 08:08:18 GMT
Organization: The University of Texas at Austin, Austin TX

In article <1992Dec12.192827.390@otago.ac.nz> coscsjc@otago.ac.nz writes:
>...........reminded me of something I once read (possibly in
>one of Jack Brymer's books) claiming that some wind bands and
>orchestras in the U.S. try to achieve a uniformity of sound in their
>clarinet sections by demanding that the players play on identical
>instruments -- and possibly also similar mouthpiece and reed setups.
>Is this really true?  

Stephen--

As a general rule, I don't think many ensembles require the players to
play any specific brand of instrument at any level. It seems that the
vast majority of players are still playing Buffet R-13's, although there
is great interest in the Yamaha YCL 72's. I think they have convinced
some orchestral sections to all play Yamaha horns, but that's the exception,
not the rule.

There are some players (like Larry Combs--principal in Chicago) who play
Leblanc, but I don't see very many. The only Wurlitzer I've seen in the US
is Michelle Zukovsky's (sp??) in the L.A. Philharmonic. Aren't they pretty
hard to get?? I don't even know if hers used Boehm fingerings or not. Which
fingering system do you use there?? I know we all got a kick out of Sabine
Meyer's horn when she was here in 1991. We also had to tune the piano WAY up
to her pitch level.

As for mouthpieces and reeds, I have never heard of that being controlled
by anyone except the individual player. 100 players will play 100 different
set-ups. BTW, if you're considering experimenting with your mouthpiece
situation, I HIGHLY recommend the re-facing work of Richard Hawkins at
the University of Michigan. He's a graduate student there, but he does
mouthpieces like a seasoned pro!

Has my rambling answered your questions?? I hope so!

Chris Neal
graduate student
instrumental conducting
The University of Texas at Austin

 

Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
From: rpeck@bronze.ucs.indiana.edu (robert william peck)
Subject: Re: The BEST finale!
Organization: Indiana University
Date: Wed, 16 Dec 1992 16:43:36 GMT

In article <1gnii7INNibh@master.cs.rose-hulman.edu> stinerkt@NeXTwork.Rose-Hulman.Edu (Kevin T Stiner) writes:
>
>What is YOUR favorite ending or finale to a classical piece?
>
I'd have to say that one of my favorite endings is the _Langsam_
movement of Mahler's Symphony #3 in d minor.  The slow tempo really sums
up well what I consider to be one of the most profound works of Western
art music.  I liken the impact of this movement to air travel: looking
out of the window at the ground gives the one the illusion that they are
traveling very slowly, but in actuality they are traveling extremely
fast.  I wonder if anyone else has experienced this feeling when
listening to this movement, or to any other compositions.  I'd be
curious to know.

--Bob

Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
From: apter@fid.morgan.com (Steve Apter)
Subject: Re: Reply to Greatest Living Pianist
Organization: Morgan Stanley & Co., New York, NY
Date: Tue, 15 Dec 1992 19:12:30 GMT

In article <DG.92Dec14145935@dgupta.hpl.hp.com> dg@dgupta.hpl.hp.com (Dipankar Gupta) writes:
>
>Seeing the following:
>   : 
>   : Top tier: *Sviatoslav Richter, Emil Gilels, Rudolf Serkin, Artur
>   : Rubinstein, Walter Gieseking, Dinu Lipatti, Wilhemn Kempff, 
>
>reminds me of a note in a Rachmaninov Concerti flyer, which claimed
>that Rubinstein was forced to cancel his performance of the fiendish
>3rd after Gieseking gave a brilliant rendition of the same.
>
>I was wondering if this performance is available. 
>
>-- Dipankar


On Music & Arts, the Rachmaninov 2nd and 3rd, Gieseking and Mengelberg.
Crappy sound, a few mistakes, but who cares:  the essence of concerto
playing.






Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
From: dbarker@spang.Camosun.BC.CA (Deryk Barker)
Subject: Re: Requia
Organization: Camosun College, Victoria B.C, Canada
X-Newsreader: Tin 1.1 PL4
Date: Mon, 14 Dec 1992 21:53:44 GMT

cb@tamarack13.timbuk (Chris Brewster) writes:
: 
: I didn't study Latin but my wife did.  We agreed that more than one
: kleenex would be several kleenices, and she informed me that more than
: one thermos would be several thermores.  I want to get these things
: right.

Naaaaah, more than one thermos would be thermoi - it's Greek not
Latin. (The th and os are giveaways).

One the same grounds the plural of octopus would be????

--
Real:  Deryk Barker, Computer Science Dept., Camosun College, Victoria B.C.
Email: (dbarker@spang.camosun.bc.ca)
Phone: +1 604 370 4452
From: velde2@jhunix.hcf.jhu.edu (Francois Velde)
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
Subject: Re: Too Polite (was Re: news: pavarotti booed out
Date: 15 Dec 92 22:01:34 GMT
Distribution: rec
Organization: HAC - Johns Hopkins University, Baltimore

In article <1992Dec15.150531.19216@news2.cis.umn.edu> jill@gopher.ccbr.umn.edu (Jill Hollifield) writes:
>I live in Minnesota, "Home of the Obligatory Standing Ovation" (tm).
>I have never been to a concert where there wasn't a SO, whether
>the performance was good, bad, or indifferent.
>
>So, my questions:  Does this happen anywhere else?  And what are *your*
>criteria for a standing ovation?  What has to happen to bring you
>to your feet?

A cultural note: I have never seen people stand up in France.  Rather,
they clap their hands synchronously to express approval: this kind of
coordination is somewhat unFrench, but very frequent.

What brings me to my feet? The fact the the person before me stands up,
and I can't see anymore.

-- 

	Francois Velde
From: jack@dcs.glasgow.ac.uk (Jack Campin)
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
Subject: Re: The BEST finale!
Date: 16 Dec 92 22:12:38 GMT
Reply-To: jack@dcs.glasgow.ac.uk (Jack Campin)
Organization: COMANDOS Project, Glesga Yoonie

stinerkt@NeXTwork.Rose-Hulman.Edu (Kevin T Stiner) wrote:
> What is YOUR favorite ending or finale to a classical piece?

A couple of them:

- Schoenberg's Second Chamber Symphony in E flat minor.  This piece was
  started in the middle of Schoenberg's career, but he only got round to
  finishing it in the late 30s, and the coda is entirely new.  It turned into
  maybe the best of all the music of doom written in the era of triumphant
  fascism; there's an abrupt wrench where the texture suddenly opens out into
  something like one of Mahler's farewells, only this one is a farewell for a
  whole civilization rather than an individual.  (Strauss's much better known
  "Metamorphosen" is probably a rip-off of this, and nowhere near as good
  simply considered as pure music, even if you make allowances for its
  political inanity).

- Bartok's Second Violin Sonata.  This piece spends most of its duration in
  a struggle between the violin and piano - it's a Rorschach-ink-blot of a
  piece in that you could interpret it in several incompatible ways, but
  whatever's going on there it's a tangle of confusion and pain.  Until the
  end, where both join in an eruptive folkdance that blows all that away in
  a rush of collective energy - he used this formula in several places over
  his career, but this is the starkest and most dramatic of the lot.

-- 
--  Jack Campin    room G092, Computing Science Department, Glasgow University,
17 Lilybank Gardens, Glasgow G12 8RZ, Scotland   TEL: 041 339 8855 x6854 (work)
INTERNET: jack@dcs.glasgow.ac.uk or via nsfnet-relay.ac.uk    FAX: 041 330 4913
BANG!net: via mcsun and uknet     BITNET: via UKACRL    UUCP: jack@glasgow.uucp
From: ronthal-adam@yale.edu (Adam Ronthal)
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
Subject: Re:    Ruinous endings (was: The BEST Finale)
Date: 17 Dec 1992 21:38:43 -0500
Organization: Yale University Science & Engineering UNIX(tm), New Haven, CT 06520-2158
NNTP-Posting-Host: minerva.cis.yale.edu

In article <1992Dec17.204424.25745@walter.bellcore.com> broken@venison.bae.bellcore.com (Tony Brokenborough) writes:

>How about the ending to Bruckner's so-called 'Romantic' symphony.
>
>The ending is exactly like the rest of the meaningless noise in the score....
>BORING !!!!!!!!!`

Try opening your mind, and actually listening to the symphony.

Adam

-- 
   /|\  /|~\   Adam M. Ronthal BR'94    |    ronthal-adam@yale.edu	
  /-| \/ |_/   P.O. Box 607 Yale Stn.   |    ronthal@minerva.cis.yale.edu
 /  |    | \   New Haven, CT   06520    |    ronthal@pop.cis.yale.edu

Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
From: mccomt@aix.rpi.edu (Todd Michel McComb)
Subject: Ockeghem (was Re: Lost Masterpieces)
Organization: Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute, Troy, NY
Date: Sat, 19 Dec 1992 14:23:46 GMT

In article <1992Dec19.063407.25773@Princeton.EDU> Roger Lustig writes:
>In article <BzGqqC.CLJ@dcs.glasgow.ac.uk> Jack Campin writes:
>>Almost everything by Ockeghem.  I don't suppose there's any chance of
>>those works still existing undiscovered anywhere: just too old.

>What makes you think there were many more?  We have lots of masses,
>lots of chansons, a few motets (fewer every year as reattribution 
>changes the picture).  The Chigi codex dates from his time or close 
>to it, and has a large collection of his masses.  What large number
>of pieces do we know existed at one time?

Maybe there weren't many more.  I can imagine someone like Ockeghem being
very discriminating in what he was willing to put in print.  But just
think of the ideas, the unpublished material, all totally lost.  The fact
that I can regard Ockeghem as one of the greatest composers ever based only
on what does exist makes me really wish there was more material.  Of course,
if the set of chansons finally appears here (and Steve Apter mentioned a
while ago that it has appeared in Japan), I might not feel so short-changed 
-- particularly if I find a recording of the Missa Mi Mi.

As for the motets, it looks like we are down to four -- and holding, as I
am quite confident (by ear) that the remaining four are works of Ockeghem.
There is the short and exquisite Ave Maria (a 4), the wonderful Alma
redemptoris mater (a 4), the big and complex Salve regina (a 4), and the
truly fabulous Intemerata Dei mater (a 5, with extra bass) which I would
nominate as the greatest composition of the 15th century.  The second Salve
regina (only recently disputed) is to my ear certainly not a work by the
same composer.

T. M. McComb

Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
From: jon@playfair.Stanford.EDU (Jonathan Buckheit)
Subject: Re: Schirmer, Chopin, Mikuli, and Horowitz...
Organization: Stanford University
Date: Mon, 14 Dec 92 23:55:32 GMT

In article <104607@bu.edu>, spacefox@acs.bu.edu (Godfrey Degamo) writes:
|>      Anyways, after buying Chopin Nocturnes For the Piano, Joseffy Edition
|> from the Schirmer's Library of Musical Classics (L. 30), I discovered,
|> looking at the back of the book, that there is a Mikuli and Joseffy
|> Editions of Chopin's works.  I suppose they are arranged differently,
|> but by how much?  And does it really make a significant difference?

Some people think it does.  Joseffy tends to be a bit more liberal about
the score.  Some teachers don't like his editions.  On the other hand, his
editions do contain the nice forwards by James H.??  I think most of my
Chopin scores are Joseffy, but do believe that there are certain pieces that
are only published in one of the two editions (I think the Etudes are only
done by Mikuli, and you'd do better with the Peters edition of those).
From: inr@eccles.caltech.edu (I. Neill Reid)
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
Subject: re: requia
Date: 11 Dec 1992 17:44 PST
Organization: California Institute of Technology
Distribution: world
NNTP-Posting-Host: eccles.caltech.edu
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41    

 `rags' covered a fair bit of ground with his requia, but here's a
few more:

 Lassus - 2 requia, for 4 voices and 5 voices respectively
    (I've got the Bruno Turner/Pro Cantione Antiua recordings which
     are very fine)

 Duarte Lobo's requiem for 8 voices - William Byrd choir. Marvellous
   writing - Portuguese palestrina

 There's also Manuel Cardoso's requiem - Tallis scholars - more
17th century Portuguese

And for a completely different approach, Berlioz' Requiem - a thunderous
Tuba mirum. Colin Davis & Concertgebouw.

 Neill Reid - inr@eccles.caltech.edu
From: plcdib@bristol.ac.uk (C D I Bertram)
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
Subject: Carl Schuricht
Date: 16 Dec 92 14:02:15 GMT
Organization: University of Bristol, England

I've been reading Paul Bernhard's novel Wittgenstein's nephew. In
it the narrator mentions that his favourite conductor is Schuricht.
What is known about him? A recording of Mozart's Haffner symphony (no. 35)
is mentioned - is this a good recording? Is it available? 
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical