HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: vkochend@nyx.cs.du.edu (Vance Kochenderfer)
Subject: Re: Tire burn-out on landings
X-Disclaimer: Nyx is a public access Unix system run by the University
	of Denver for the Denver community.  The University has neither
	control over nor responsibility for the opinions of users.
Organization: Nyx, Public Access Unix at U. of Denver Math/CS dept.
Date: Tue, 12 Jan 93 23:39:10 GMT

In article <1993Jan8.130407.1@economics.adelaide.edu.au> tanemeth@economics.adelaide.edu.au writes:
>In article meb4593@galileo.rtn.ca.boeing.com (Michael Bain) writes:
>>
>> --- Suggestion made to spin tires prior to touchdown to reduce tire wear--
>>
>>>Interestingly, this was the first suggestion that I submitted when I
>>>started working for Boeing, even though I'm a computer weenie rather
>>>than an aero weenie.  I suggested it to be motor driven or "wind
>>>vanes".
>>
>In fact this is done on some aircraft, eg. Cessna Citation as part of the
>"gravel kit" option.  The main advantage is significantly reduced braking

Isn't this done on the Shuttle?  I believe they use electric motors to
pre-rotate the tires.  A student here recently wrote a paper on this.  He
cut tennis balls into quarters and glued them on a tire and stuck it in
the wind tunnel.  Using the airstream to rotate the tires seems a lot
simpler.

Vance Kochenderfer
Virginia Tech                    |  "Get me out of these ropes and into a
vkochend@nyx.cs.du.edu           |   good belt of Scotch"    -Nick Danger
Newsgroups: sci.aeronautics
From: eandersn@mach1.wlu.ca (Niels Ejvind Andersen)
Subject: Re: Tire burn-out on landings
X-Newsreader: Tin 1.1 PL5
Organization: Wilfrid Laurier University
Date: Fri, 8 Jan 1993 14:26:38 GMT

Jerry Szopinski Mfg 4-6983 (szopinsk@picard.med.ge.com) wrote:
: If anyone has ever taken the time to notice the wheels do start spinning
: once the landing gear start to deploy.  A pilot doesn't start braking until
: his aircraft is on the ground, at which time the wheels have come up to the
: speed of the aircraft.  So, spinning the wheels prior to the aircraft land-
: ing does not put more stress on the brakes.  If a pilot did apply his brakes
: prior to landing his aircraft he would surely blow his tire on the majority   
: of his landings...

I have looked down at my landing gear many times during flight (someone
at Cessna left off the gear up/down switch when they built the C-172 so 
I have to leave the gear down all the time), and the wheel on my side is
perfectly still.  Don't know about the wheel on the other side, though. :-)

Just in case they are spinning, I step on the brakes a minute or two
before landing, to make sure I have brake pressure when I want to stop.

P.S. Controllers don't want pilots landing gear up, because that tends to
     block their active runway, so they add the phrase "Check gear down"
     when they clear a pilot to land.  Legend has it that one pilot replied
     "Gear down and welded, sir" (his aircraft was fixed-gear).
--
Niels Ejvind Andersen     [eandersn@mach2.wlu.ca / 70511.2302@compuserve.com]
Information Systems, Wilfrid Laurier University, Waterloo, ON  N2L 3C5 Canada
                                                                  ... VFR NC4
Newsgroups: sci.aeronautics
From: pdunster@cc.uow.edu.au (peter dunster)
Subject: 3d modeling
Organization: University Of Wollongong
Date: Mon, 11 Jan 93 01:05:55 GMT

I am new to this newsgroup so please forgive me if this is a FAQ, but can
anyone point me in the right direction to find some software to do 3D 
modelling of subsonic airflows using panel method, to run on a PC if posible.

Many thanks in advance

Pete Dunster

pdunster@cc.uow.edu.au
Newsgroups: sci.aeronautics
From: hall@trl.oz.au (Roger Hall)
Subject: Teach-Yourself-AERO books etc.. (was Re: Helicopter Aerodynamics)
Reply-To: hall@trl.oz.au
Organization: Telecom Research Labs.
Date: Fri, 8 Jan 1993 01:37:47 GMT

Greetings from down-under,

I am an engineer working in communications/software engineering with
a love of sailing. I have been teaching myself aerodynamics relevant to
sailing for my own interest/hobby/pastime etc..

In article Cz9@cen.ex.ac.uk, RJSulliv@cen.ex.ac.uk (R.J.Sullivan) writes:
[...]
>helicopters. I am looking for something along the lines of John
>Anderson's excellent series in general aerodynamic theory but specific
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
I agree, I have been working through John Andersons ' Intro to Aero'
book (I forget the exact title) and have found it to be superbly written.
However, the library I have access to doesn't seem to have any other texts
by JDA so that I was unaware of other texts that go into more detail (by him).

Specifically, I'm interested in subsonic, finite wing, thin foil analysis
in order to optimise my yacht performance subject to class constraints 
(this is a long term goal).  

Do the other texts in John Anderson's series cover detail on such aspects,
particularly numerical techniques on finite wing panel/vortex lattice...
methods for Navier-Stokes and/or Euler-Lagrange problems? Are there other
methods I should consider? 

Are there any aero experts who wont be too bored by sub-sonic flow stuff
to steer me in the right direction? Indeed, is there anyone who shares 
similar sailing theory interest and has already done all this?

Then there's the hydrodynamics stuff.. Anyone know about wave-making drag
on hulls! 

Thanks in advance,
regards
Roger.


--------------------------------------------------------------------
Roger L. Hall		        _--_|\   #include <std/disclaimer.h>
Network Services & Signalling  /      \  Email:     r.hall@trl.oz.au
Telecom Research Laboratories  \_.--.x/  Fax:         +61 3 253 6362
Melbourne, Australia.                v   Phone:       +61 3 253 6187
--------------------------------------------------------------------

Newsgroups: sci.aeronautics
From: szopinsk@picard.med.ge.com (Jerry Szopinski Mfg 4-6983)
Subject: Re: Tire burn-out on landings
Organization: GE Medical Systems, Magnetic Resonance
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1 PL6]
Date: Fri, 8 Jan 93 10:34:08 GMT

Philip D Bridges (pdb1@ra.msstate.edu) wrote:
: meb4593@galileo.rtn.ca.boeing.com (Michael Bain) writes:
: 
: --- Suggestion made to spin tires prior to touchdown to reduce tire wear--
: 
: >Interestingly, this was the first suggestion that I submitted when I
: >started working for Boeing, even though I'm a computer weenie rather
: >than an aero weenie.  I suggested it to be motor driven or "wind
: >vanes". 
: 
: >It was turned down (of course).  The explanation was that the weight
: >for the system (and complexity) wouldn't be worth it.  
: 
: Another reason not to do it is that the purpose of landing is to
: stop the airplane. If you spin up the tires, more braking must be
: done to stop the plane. Recapping tires is cheaper than replacing
: brakes.
: 
:  
: 
: --------------------------------------------------------------------------
: |      Philip Bridges                 |  "Strive for design simplicity:  |
: |      Dept. of Aerospace Eng.        |   you never have to fix anything |
: |      Miss. State University         |   you leave out."                |
: |      (601) 325-3623                 |                                  |
: |      pdb1@ra.msstate.edu            |           Bill Lear (1903-1978)  |
: --------------------------------------------------------------------------
 


If anyone has ever taken the time to notice the wheels do start spinning
once the landing gear start to deploy.  A pilot doesn't start braking until
his aircraft is on the ground, at which time the wheels have come up to the
speed of the aircraft.  So, spinning the wheels prior to the aircraft land-
ing does not put more stress on the brakes.  If a pilot did apply his brakes
prior to landing his aircraft he would surely blow his tire on the majority   
of his landings and he would end up owing the ground crew a case of beer
each time.
: 
Newsgroups: sci.aeronautics
From: pdb1@ra.msstate.edu (Philip D Bridges)
Subject: Re: Tire burn-out on landings
Organization: Mississippi State University
Date: Tue, 5 Jan 1993 14:32:26 GMT

meb4593@galileo.rtn.ca.boeing.com (Michael Bain) writes:

--- Suggestion made to spin tires prior to touchdown to reduce tire wear--

>Interestingly, this was the first suggestion that I submitted when I
>started working for Boeing, even though I'm a computer weenie rather
>than an aero weenie.  I suggested it to be motor driven or "wind
>vanes". 

>It was turned down (of course).  The explanation was that the weight
>for the system (and complexity) wouldn't be worth it.  

Another reason not to do it is that the purpose of landing is to
stop the airplane. If you spin up the tires, more braking must be
done to stop the plane. Recapping tires is cheaper than replacing
brakes.

 

--------------------------------------------------------------------------
|      Philip Bridges                 |  "Strive for design simplicity:  |
|      Dept. of Aerospace Eng.        |   you never have to fix anything |
|      Miss. State University         |   you leave out."                |
|      (601) 325-3623                 |                                  |
|      pdb1@ra.msstate.edu            |           Bill Lear (1903-1978)  |
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: tanemeth@economics.adelaide.edu.au
Newsgroups: sci.aeronautics
Subject: Re: Tire burn-out on landings
Date: 8 Jan 93 13:04:07 ACST
Organization: Economics, University of Adelaide
NNTP-Posting-Host: eco.economics.adelaide.edu.au

In article meb4593@galileo.rtn.ca.boeing.com (Michael Bain) writes:
>
> --- Suggestion made to spin tires prior to touchdown to reduce tire wear--
>
>>Interestingly, this was the first suggestion that I submitted when I
>>started working for Boeing, even though I'm a computer weenie rather
>>than an aero weenie.  I suggested it to be motor driven or "wind
>>vanes".
>
..

In fact this is done on some aircraft, eg. Cessna Citation as part of the
"gravel kit" option.  The main advantage is significantly reduced braking
distance, I believe.  (I don't have my notes here, but from memory, bleed
air is used to achieve the spin-up just prior to landing.)

Tom Nemeth
Newsgroups: sci.aeronautics
From: dtl8v@holmes.acc.Virginia.EDU (Heracleitus)
Subject: Looking for Author (AIAA)
Originator: dtl8v@holmes.acc.Virginia.EDU
Organization: University of Virginia
Date: Mon, 4 Jan 1993 18:40:03 GMT


  I'm looking for the author of a paper in the AIAA/IEEE 8th Digital
Avionics Systems Conference Proceedings.  His name is W.B. Keen and he
(at the time, at least) worked as principal engineer for Plessey
Avionics in Havant, Hampshire, UK.  Is PAv on the Internet?  Does
someone know his E-mail address?

Doug Lamb
University of Virginia
dtl8v@Virginia.EDU
Newsgroups: sci.aeronautics
From: szopinsk@picard.med.ge.com (Jerry Szopinski Mfg 4-6983)
Subject: Re: Unflattering descriptions
Organization: GE Medical Systems, Magnetic Resonance
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1 PL6]
Date: Thu, 7 Jan 93 10:22:30 GMT

Lindy Sisk (lbs@texhrc.uucp) wrote:
: The F-4 Phantom was also known as The Rhino, because it was in fact
: as ugly as a rhinocerous.
: 


Hey Lindy-

The poor slob who coined that name for the Phantom sure didn't know how   
to appreciate beauty!  Have you ever actually laid eyes on a Phantom?
I used to work on the F-4B version and I always cosidered it to be Big
and Beautiful.  There's not one ugly line on that baby!


Jerry


"It riles them to believe that you perceive the web they weave and keep on
thinking free!"  --  Moody blues


: 
Newsgroups: sci.aeronautics
From: bob1@cos.com (Bob Blackshaw)
Subject: Re: Unflattering descriptions
Organization: Corporation for Open Systems
Date: Wed, 6 Jan 1993 15:19:44 GMT

In <alien.026m@acheron.amigans.gen.nz> alien@acheron.amigans.gen.nz (Ross Smith) writes:

>I'm trying to compile a list of the more, shall we say, unflattering
>descriptions that have been applied to various aircraft over the years.
>Does anyone know any good ones? The short list I've been able to recall
>myself goes something like this ... sources omitted to protect the
>guilty :-)

>Buccaneer : "The Banana Bomber." (The prototype was given the codename ARNA
>(A Royal Navy Aircraft), and "Blackburn ARNA" soon became "Black Banana".)

>E-3 Sentry : "A Boeing 707 being raped by a flying saucer."

>F-4 Phantom : "So ugly I thought they'd delivered it upside down."

>F-15 Eagle : "Living proof of the American theory that even a brick will
>fly if you hang enough engines on it."

>F-104 Starfighter : "A missile with a man in it."

Also described as a pregnant hatpin on a razor blade. Known in the
RCAF as the widow-maker.

>F-117 : "The first aircraft designed by electrical engineers."

>Mitsubishi G4M : "The one-shot lighter." (A Japanese bomber of WW2, with a
>habit of catching fire at the slightest provocation.)

>Tu-95 Bear : "A triumph of brute force over the laws of aerodynamics."

>Any more? (The above are all military planes, but I'm interested in civilian
>examples too.)

Well, old geezers like me remember the GeeBee Racer, can't remember any
unflattering names, but it was basically a humungous radial engine with
an extremely short body and wings - your basic bumble bee.

The the WWII Bell Aircobra known as the Iron Dog - suitable for slow,
wide circles.

There was also a Martin twin engined bomber that I think they called
the Flying Coffin. They say the Florida gulf is full of them.

There is a humpbacked biplane they use for cropdusting. Ugliest thing
I ever saw, but it flies. Can't remember who builds it.


>--
>...... Ross Smith (Wanganui, NZ) ...... alien@acheron.amigans.gen.nz ......

>"I blame you for the moonlit sky and the dream that died with the Eagle's flight
>I blame you for the moonlit nights when I wonder why are the seas still dry
>Don't blame me, sleeping satellite"                              (Tasmin Archer)

Bob
>--
From: ghee@vision.larc.nasa.gov (Terry A. Ghee)
Newsgroups: sci.aeronautics
Subject: Re: Teach-Yourself-AERO books etc.. (was Re: Helicopter Aerodynamics)
Date: 8 Jan 1993 21:18:35 GMT
Organization: NASA Langley Research Center, Hampton, VA  USA
Distribution: world
NNTP-Posting-Host: vision.larc.nasa.gov


Roger,

Have I a book for you.  Unfortunately, its at home.
The title is Sailing Aerodynamics and Hydrodynamics.
Don't have the author or publishers.  It seems fairly
new, costs 59.95 and is quite good (well, I just got
it at bookstore in Boston over X-mas and have only
perused it so far, but it seems quite good :-)).
I'll try to write down the info. and bring it in Monday.
If you want the rest of the info. write back, because I'll
probably forget to send it if you don't remind me.
Terry Ghee

Newsgroups: sci.aeronautics
From: szopinsk@picard.med.ge.com (Jerry Szopinski Mfg 4-6983)
Subject: Re: Unflattering descriptions
Organization: GE Medical Systems, Magnetic Resonance
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1 PL6]
Date: Mon, 4 Jan 93 12:00:10 GMT

Ross Smith (alien@acheron.amigans.gen.nz) wrote:
: I'm trying to compile a list of the more, shall we say, unflattering
: descriptions that have been applied to various aircraft over the years.
: Does anyone know any good ones? The short list I've been able to recall
: myself goes something like this ... sources omitted to protect the
: guilty :-)
: 
: Buccaneer : "The Banana Bomber." (The prototype was given the codename ARNA
: (A Royal Navy Aircraft), and "Blackburn ARNA" soon became "Black Banana".)
: 
: E-3 Sentry : "A Boeing 707 being raped by a flying saucer."
: 
: F-4 Phantom : "So ugly I thought they'd delivered it upside down."
: 
: F-15 Eagle : "Living proof of the American theory that even a brick will
: fly if you hang enough engines on it."
: 
: F-104 Starfighter : "A missile with a man in it."
: 
: F-117 : "The first aircraft designed by electrical engineers."
: 
: Mitsubishi G4M : "The one-shot lighter." (A Japanese bomber of WW2, with a
: habit of catching fire at the slightest provocation.)
: 
: Tu-95 Bear : "A triumph of brute force over the laws of aerodynamics."
: 
: Any more? (The above are all military planes, but I'm interested in civilian
: examples too.)
: 
: --
: ...... Ross Smith (Wanganui, NZ) ...... alien@acheron.amigans.gen.nz ......
: 
A-7 Corsair - "SLUF" - Slow Little Ugly Fucker. 

A-10 Thunderbolt II - Warthog('nuff said).

DC-3/A-47 - Flying Taxi.

A-1 Skyraider - Flying Dump Truck.

B-26 Marauder - Widow Maker.

F-105 Thundercheif - THUD.

B-24 Liberator - Flying Boxcar.

F-16 Falcon - Electric Jet.


I hope you don't mind the vugarity in my first example, but we are dealing
with military aircraft.  I've been in and around aviation ever since I was
knee high to an olio strut so I'd be interested in any more names/descrip-
tions that anyone can come up with.  I'll keep scratching my head and 
searching my archives for anything that I can add to this list.

Jerry

"It riles them to beleive that you perceive the web they weave and keep on
thinking free! -- Moody Blues

: --
: 
Newsgroups: sci.aeronautics
From: doug@alliant.com (Doug Bloomberg)
Subject: Re: Tire burn-out on landings
Summary: Fast easy way to burn out tires 
Organization: Alliant Computer Systems Corp.
Distribution: na
Date: Wed, 6 Jan 1993 04:48:10 GMT

In article <bob1.726264511@cos> bob1@cos.com (Bob Blackshaw) writes:
>In <1281@galileo.rtn.ca.boeing.com> meb4593@galileo.rtn.ca.boeing.com (Michael Bain) writes:
>
>>todamhyp@unlv.edu (Brian M. Huey) writes:
>>>	I am neither a pilot nor an airliner engineer. However,
>>>everytime I watch a airliner land, a cloud of smoke is produced when
>>>the wheels come in contact from the ground due to friction. Couldn't
>>>this cloud and the effect of friction be lessened by inducing a
>>>angular velocity upon the wheels to match the airliners speed with
>>>respect to the runway?
>

	On the other hand anyone can burn out a set of tires on one landing.
	Almost.

	A friend went out for a Sat flight. I was sunny and warmish. During
	taxiing he used his brakes a bit, taxiied through some slush. Went
	flying, at landing he received a bit of a shock when the main gear
	were locked solid. He slid for a ways one tire broke loose, and
	the other tire started rolling shortly after. (Luckily)

	Though the tires didn't pop, he had to trash them as they had a 
	serious flat spot.

	NOW he recalls that you shouldn't use brakes or taxii through
	slush.


	Doug Bloomberg  doug@alliant.com (Ol' Alliant is going Tango Uniform
					  in a week or so I will be off the
					  net till a new job comes along.
					  Between resumes maybe I can get
					  some work done on the RV.)
From: simon@visionware.co.uk (Simon Taylor)
Newsgroups: sci.aeronautics
Subject: Re: Tire burn-out on landings
Date: 6 Jan 93 12:54:06 GMT
Organization: VisionWare Ltd., Leeds, UK
X-Newsreader: Tin 1.1 PL4

meb4593@galileo.rtn.ca.boeing.com (Michael Bain) writes:
: todamhyp@unlv.edu (Brian M. Huey) writes:
: >	I am neither a pilot nor an airliner engineer. However,
: >everytime I watch a airliner land, a cloud of smoke is produced when
: >the wheels come in contact from the ground due to friction. Couldn't
: >this cloud and the effect of friction be lessened by inducing a
: >angular velocity upon the wheels to match the airliners speed with
: >respect to the runway?


	I heard on a recent Radio 4 (national radio for non UK readers)
	program that the the majority of tyre wear takes place during
	taxiing rather than on landing. This probably explains why it is not 
	considered cost effective to install any spin-up equipment.

	Simon
From: augustho@aludra.usc.edu (August Horvath)
Newsgroups: sci.aeronautics
Subject: Re: Unflattering descriptions
Date: 4 Jan 1993 11:06:25 -0800
Organization: University of Southern California, Los Angeles, CA
NNTP-Posting-Host: aludra.usc.edu

The Westland Watipi was often called the "Whatapity" by those unfortunate
enough to crew it.

august horvath <augustho@usc.edu>
From: janm@Aten.docs.uu.se (Jan Mattsson)
Newsgroups: sci.aeronautics
Subject: Re: Unflattering descriptions
Date: 7 Jan 93 15:22:26 GMT
Organization: Uppsala University
Reply-To: janm@bern.docs.uu.se
NNTP-Posting-Host: aten.docs.uu.se
Organisation: Dept. of Comp. Syst., Uppsala University, Sweden

pt@geovision.gvc.com (Paul Tomblin) writes:

>>The worlds first (turbo) jet biplane?

>I've seen pictures of a Polish cropduster biplane that was a real jet, not a
>turboprop.  

I believe it was called the Belphegor, or something similar.
Quite likely the ugliest plane ever built.

>The idea was that Kerosene is a lot easier to come by in Eastern
>Europe than av-gas.

But why a *jet*? Turboprops don't run on avgas.
--
Jan Mattsson, CS student, Uppsala University, Sweden
janm@minsk.docs.uu.se
From: fiddler@concertina.Eng.Sun.COM (steve hix)
Newsgroups: sci.aeronautics
Subject: Re: Unflattering descriptions
Date: 6 Jan 1993 19:59:22 GMT
Organization: Sun
NNTP-Posting-Host: concertina

In article <MTANNER.93Jan5125110@gmuvax2.gmu.edu> mtanner@gmuvax2.gmu.edu (Michael C. Tanner) writes:
>In article <1993Jan4.120010.5708@mr.med.ge.com> szopinsk@picard.med.ge.com (Jerry Szopinski Mfg 4-6983) writes:
>
>   B-26 Marauder - Widow Maker.
>
>AKA "The Baltimore Whore" (because it had "no visible means of support", an
>                          old legalism for proving prostitution -- pilots were
>                          leary of the short narrow chord wing, and Martin was 
>                          in Baltimore)
>
>I've also heard "One a Day in Tampa Bay".  Transition training was in Florida
>and they had a lot of accidents.

Once they got into combat, though, the B-26 had one of, if not *the*, lowest
combat loss rate for bombers during the war.











--
-------------------------------------------------------
| Some things are too important not to give away      |
| to everybody else and have none left for yourself.  |
|------------------------ Dieter the car salesman-----|
Newsgroups: sci.aeronautics
From: solomon@lims01.lerc.nasa.gov (Robert F. Solomon)
Subject: Re: Unflattering descriptions
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41    
Organization: No Organization, Only Random Events
Date:  5 Jan 1993 09:43 EST  

Here's one I got from my son in the Navy:

A-6 Intruder - The Flying Pig
> 
> 
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
| Robert F. Solomon               |    What I Said Is Not Necessarily   |
| NASA Lewis Research Center      |    What I Meant.                    |
| Cleveland, Ohio                 |                                     |
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
| Primary Address:      solomon@lims01.lerc.nasa.gov                    |
| Alternate Address:    ad912@cleveland.freenet.edu                     |
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
Newsgroups: sci.aeronautics
Subject: Re: Unflattering descriptions
From: news@massey.ac.nz (USENET News System)
Date: Thu, 7 Jan 93 02:01:55 GMT
Organization: School of Maths & Info. Sci., Massey University, Palmerston North, NZ

In article <lkmemtINNe38@appserv.Eng.Sun.COM> fiddler@concertina.Eng.Sun.COM (steve hix) writes:
>Grumman AgCat.
>
>Once proposed to the Army as a close-support aircraft.  It was (is)
>rugged, could carry a good load, and is very maneuverable.
>
>Just try to get any general to sign off on buying a biplane in the
>age of jet aircraft, though...
>
Well, there is a re-engined AgCat that operates from the field I often fly from
that sports a turbine up front. The long pointy nose looks a lot better than the
fat lump that graced the front before surgery. It's a lot quieter too.

The worlds first (turbo) jet biplane?