From: roberts@g2syd.genasys.com.au (Robert Swan)
Subject: Re: Stupidity on Drugs (was:Re: Usual offtopic junk)
Organization: Genasys II, Sydney, Australia
Date: Fri, 18 Dec 1992 02:45:47 GMT

If I might join in the PC bash (this isn't the sort of PC bash I'm used
to in csaa, but this group's got so much noise anyway)...

In article <92343.123336CMS129@psuvm.psu.edu> Chris "Slothman" Stoy <CMS129@psuvm.psu.edu> writes:
>
>The point was that the original poster claimed that it was good enough to just
>place warnings on drug packages. That people would actually read these warnings
>and follow them.  The mere fact that I see pregnant women and just your average
>everyday Joe walking around smoking leads me to believe that these warnings
>arne't working.  If someone wants to kill themselves, fine, let them do it, as
>long as they don't take anyone with them, wich is exactly what is happening
>when you smoke in a public place.  What makes you think that peolpe will be
>more responsible after they start using heavier drugs?

What makes you think that public places (are|should|could ever be)
_safe_ places.  Risks abound.  Living in a city is quite dangerous.
Going out in the sunlight poses a cancer threat.  Smoking is bad for
you.  Alcohol is bad for you.  Sugar is bad for your teeth.  Despite
general acceptance of these assertions as facts, people still live
in cities, lie in the sun, smoke, drink and eat sweets.

Why do you think they do this.  Do you think perhaps it's because
they want to have lived before they die?  Most people don't over-indulge
in these things.  In order to protect those who do, or those might be
injured as a side effect, should we prohibit?  Not in my book.

>The point is that not everyone will sit in there home alone and get high. That
>is the only way you can be sure of not hurting anyone.  I live on a college
>campus and see every weekend hundreds of drunk people wandering the streets.
>I've seen what alcohol does to poeple.  You lose your sense of good judgement
>and lose a lot of your reflexes.  Tell me how many rapes, fights, and murders
>have occured while under the influence of alcohol. And you sit there telling me
>that this will NOT happen if you legalize other drugs?

How many deaths have been averted by the use of alcohol?  It's
rhetorical, but I'm serious.  The alarming statistic today isn't the
drug users, it's the suicide rate of the young.  With society imposing
more and more pressure on children to avert disaster - child abuse at 7,
the deforestation problem at 8, pollution at 9, nuclear waste/war ...
etc.  etc.  it has become a depressing prospect for the kids.  What
happened to the right to a childhood?  I'm certain that the
forgetfulness of a binge has occasionally let off enough of this
pressure to have saved lives.

Alcohol makes a contribution to the crime rate.  So does society.

>If you want to wander your home naked, fine, go ahead. The goverment has no
>right to stop you.  The government is there to protect SOCIETY. when you become
>a threat to society, then government has a right to stop you.  If you decide
>wandering the streets naked would be a good idea, then you are threatening
>society (it is not accepted to walk around naked in our society) and the gov.
>has a rigth to stop you from doing it.

Aside from embarrassment (-blush-), what is the danger to society.  What is
being protected here.  I postulate conformity.  Is this a good thing?
Is this society?

>The problem is that these actions (taking drugs) inherently endangers other
>people.  That's like saying your going to go and buy a car to just drive around
>your yard with.  Eventually, your going to take it on the road.

I'd be interested to see evidence that there is an inherent danger
in the drug-taking.  I believe that the problems stem from things
that the people do to get the money to support the criminals that
provide them with their drugs.  One thing I know is that a _legal_
dose of heroin (which is apparently still the best analgesia for
various forms of cancer) is of nominal cost.  What is the actual
resource cost of the other drugs?  I don't know, but I'll bet that
it's not 5% of the price the suppliers manage to exact.  If the
habit is of negligible cost, no need to resort to crime to support
it.

I have a physical dependence on air, one rather less pressing on on
water, and a milder one still on food.  However, if someone put the
price of food up out of my reach, I suppose I'd have little choice but
to resort to crime to support my habit.

>Your right, I was wrong about the Dec. of Independance.  And your right that
>if you use drugs responsibly then there shouldn't be anything wrong with it.
>The problem is responsibility is the exception, not the rule.   A lot if people
>I know use alcohol as an escape from their problems.  When they lose their high
>the probelm is still there, so they go get high again.  I would love to forget
>all the problems in my life, but losing touch with reality isn't going to solve
>anything.  By legalizing drugs, you make it too easy for people to ignore their
>problems and end up giving them yet another one (addiction).  Face it, all
>drugs can be addictive. What starts out as responsible use can easily end up
>out of control.  Especialy for harder drugs like cocaine.

I'll continue to believe that the escape provided by getting high has
saved lives too, and that society imposing too much conformity is a
bad thing.

That said, my protests against societal conformity are more along the
lines of driving old French cars, wearing highly unfashionable clothes, and
being willing to not take myself too seriously.  Thankfully, these are
all still legal.  (did I mention that I also have a few Amigas? :-)

>-----------------------------------------------------------------------
>Chris "Slothman" Stoy |  DISCLAIMER: The views expressed within are IN
>cms129 at psuvm       |  FACT, mine this time, not Gizmo's. He had
>cms129@psuvm.psu.edu  |  nothing to do with this.  He's libral.
>-----------------------------------------------------------------------

Have fun,

Robert.
-- 
I used to be indecisive,   | Robert Swan, roberts@g2syd.genasys.com.au
but now I'm not so sure.   | Genasys II Pty. Ltd., North Sydney.
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy