HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: jtojek@cae.wisc.edu (Jon Tojek)
Subject: Tactile Feedback
Organization: U of Wisconsin-Madison College of Engineering
Date: 10 Sep 92 18:36:12 CDT


I am looking for ideas and info on a tactile feedback project for my
senior ECE project this year.  My general idea goes like this, a subject
would be wearing possibly a tight fitting glove sleeve thing on one arm.  
This sleeve would have little activatiors all over the place, or in an
approx. grid formation every sqr centimeter.  Then another user would be
sitting at the terminal of our computer looking at a basic picture of this
arm and activator points.  As the user selects points, or selects three
fingers, or whatever, the subject would feel it on his skin.

Now my first problem is what kind of activators should I embedd into the
sleeve.  I have thought of little wires that could shock the person with a 
small voltage, little things that vibrate, or little things that heat up.  
The requirements are that the activation time is almost immediate, and that
it is safe for the subject.

If you have any ideas or have heard of this being done on a low budget
before please do e-mail me at      jtojek@cae.wisc.edu

Thank You,
JonT.
.   
Newsgroups: alt.cyberpunk.tech
From: reay@bnlls1.nsls.bnl.gov (Robert Reay)
Subject: Re: n-Dimensional Cyber Space
Organization: Brookhaven National Laboratory, Upton, NY 11973
Date: Sun, 6 Sep 1992 03:06:21 GMT

In article <1992Sep4.151213.19047@pellns.alleg.edu> sunthej@alleg.edu writes:
>In article <3525@bcstec.ca.boeing.com> hall@bcstec.ca.boeing.com (Robert  
>J. Hall) writes:
>>(in theory) be linked directly to the network, will the mind be capable  
>>of dealing with more than three computer generated spacial dimensions?  
>
>see here.  I have a question for you though- What exactly would constitute  
>a fourth+ spacial dimension?
>

Well lets see.  In one dimension you have a line.  Put another line at 90
to the first and you have 2 dimensions.  Take another line and put it at 90 
degrees to all other lines and you have 3 dimensions.  Take a fourth line
put it 90 degrees to all existing lines and all of a sudden you have 4 
dimensions.  So all we have to do is make a display that can do this.

I think that first and formost a mind recieving information (even directly)
would have to get it in some fasion that it understands.  This means the 
senses.  So we will probably be limeted to a 3d display.  However if you 
can give the impression of three dimensions w/ only 2, you should
be able to give the impression of 4 with 3 real dimension.


			-Rob
From: merlin@rivdell.sccsi.com (Merlin the Idiot Magi)
Newsgroups: alt.cyberpunk.tech
Subject: Re: Eyes and Mexican Hats (was Re: brain rom and all that... )
Date: Sun, 06 Sep 92 22:58:57 CDT
Organization: Rivendell BBS / Hou, TX. / +1 713 941 2236

>   HELL, has anyone heard of any practical/commercial implementations of a
> neural network?
> 
>           -terrychay
>                  TYCHAY@CITJULIE.BITNET
>                  tychay@juliet.caltech.edu

   Well, I don't knwo about you, but I've been having dreams...  Do you 
remeber KNight Rider?
   /// & ///

--
merlin@rivdell.sccsi.com (Merlin the Idiot Magi)
Rivendell BBS -*- Houston, TX -*- +1(713)941-2236
Newsgroups: alt.cyberpunk.tech
From: guru-a0@access.digex.com (Guru Aleph-Null)
Subject: Re: Tactile Feedback
Organization: Express Access Online Communications, Greenbelt, MD USA
Date: Sun, 13 Sep 1992 05:00:44 GMT

gregn@coombs.anu.edu.au (Gregory Newton) writes:

>jtojek@cae.wisc.edu (Jon Tojek) writes:


>>I am looking for ideas and info on a tactile feedback project for my
>>senior ECE project this year.  My general idea goes like this, a subject
>>would be wearing possibly a tight fitting glove sleeve thing on one arm.  
>>This sleeve would have little activatiors all over the place, or in an
>>approx. grid formation every sqr centimeter.  Then another user would be
>>sitting at the terminal of our computer looking at a basic picture of this
>>arm and activator points.  As the user selects points, or selects three
>>fingers, or whatever, the subject would feel it on his skin.

>>Now my first problem is what kind of activators should I embedd into the
>>sleeve.  I have thought of little wires that could shock the person with a 
>>small voltage, little things that vibrate, or little things that heat up.  
>>The requirements are that the activation time is almost immediate, and that
>>it is safe for the subject.

>>If you have any ideas or have heard of this being done on a low budget
>>before please do e-mail me at      jtojek@cae.wisc.edu

>>Thank You,
>>JonT.
>>.   

>	I saw a cyberspace glove on tv that had little tiny plastic bags in the
>fingers that were inflated with air to give the sensation of touch. The thing
>had little tubes that were conected to a box with computer controlled valves.

>	It was apparently reasonablly effective - maybe you could do something
>like that ? It certainlly would be safer and more comfortable than heat, 
>electric shocks and probably a lot easier than vibration. Only hassle is masses of air tubes running all over the place.

>	- hope it's a help    Greg N.

Wouldn't a hydralic system be better than air? Say, using a light oil
and goodly thick latex or appropriate material "bladders"... Then you
could either heat the hydralic fluid so your hands wouldn't get cold
and/or give the impression of heat if you keep the temperatures sane..


Newsgroups: alt.cyberpunk.tech
From: morton@qucdntri.ee.queensu.ca
Subject: Re: n-Dimensional Cyber Space
Organization: Queen's University EE Department
Date: Tue, 15 Sep 1992 20:41:24 GMT

Ok, how about this for representing 4D (cyber)space to someone used to 3D
space: colour. You could move through 3D space like normal, or move 
through the fourth dimension. The colours of the surrounding net and icons
would change. As you got closer or farther from the icons in the 4th 
dimension, their appearance would change, and they would appear or 
disappear.

I don't know how one could tell where things were that were not on the 
current 4th dimension position/colour but this bears some thinking about.


			Stephen
				Queen's EE (Canada) 
Newsgroups: alt.cyberpunk.tech
From: shaun@octel.com (Attacking Deep Structure)
Subject: Re: n-Dimensional Cyber Space
Organization: Octel Communications Inc., Milpitas Ca.
Date: Tue, 8 Sep 1992 23:42:56 GMT

In article <V86NqB2w165w@rivdell.sccsi.com> megazone@rivdell.sccsi.com (Megazoner) writes:
> Good grief! Why would anyone want to experience more than four 
>dimensions? You couldn't see them anyway...

Perhaps, perhaps not, but that's no reason to quash research or inquiry.  It
reminds me of a very, very shitty high school teacher named RICHARD HAYES
who taught a computer science class I attended (and for which I did a lot
of flowcharting.)  He was one of those people who personally identified 
with his apple computer, even before the Mac existed.  My class partner
had bought another brand of computer and was telling me about it one 
afternoon, instead of working on files of records.  The teacher passed by
just as my partner was telling me that his system had 128k, expandable to
256k.  I thought that was great, and told him so, and the teacher went
totally non-linear!  He said that no one would ever need more than 48k, 
and if they did, the apple II+ was expandable to 64k!  What would you ever
use all that memory for?  And on, and on, and on.  

In retrospect, the answer is obvious, but my point is that comments of the 
type "Good grief!  Why would anyone want to... ?" have a pretty good chance 
of looking ill-conceived down the road when applied to computers or other 
forms of high technology.  


>We live in four dimensions (4 being the experience of time) but 
>adding a fifth would only be useful in some strange fractal apllication, 
>and we could only concieve of it in a generated 4space anyway.

Time isn't really a true 4th dimension the way the other three 
dimensions are.  "Dimension" is really a poor word choice, I think.  I
think what you really mean is "degree of freedom."  In space, x, y, z, 
(or their analogues in cylindrical or spherical coordinates) "allow,"
or more precisely, completely describe the freedom of motion possible
in the "3D" universe.  Time is generally not a manipulatable dimension,
nor a representational one, experiences at raves or in physics classes
not withstanding.  :)  The arrow of time points one way, and travels at
a constant rate, for most practical purposes.

>You could get to 'taste' data. (RE: _'I' said the Fly_ by 
>Micheal Shea, OMNI Sci-Fi Collection) Cspace would allow one to 
>experience all sorts of things...in 4 dimensions.

For grins and giggles, you could mix bad science with bad scifi, and
concoct an jack-in input to a "lost sense" that resides in the 
"unused" 80% (?) of the human brain!  "Cyberspace gave me access to
my mind's eye and my sixth sense!"  Yuck.  Sounds like a tabloid
headline, doesn't it?  I wonder how long it will be before the tabloids
jump on the cyberspace/VR bandwagon.

@Man

-- 
shaun@octel.com  ||  "Now is the time on Sprockets when we Lambada!"
              
Days of Our Lives: It softens heads while you do dishes!
Newsgroups: alt.cyberpunk.tech
From: guru-a0@access.digex.com (Guru Aleph-Null)
Subject: Re: Monomyl wire : Is it possible?
Organization: Express Access Online Communications, Greenbelt, MD USA
Date: Sat, 5 Sep 1992 04:05:32 GMT

Don't think weed-whacker, think:  nifty trick dental floss;
never worry about ugly tartar or gingivittis again! (by Blammo![tm])

I can just see that go into an "anarchy phile" for the future, right
after putting nair in the shampoo, switch the dental floss with
monomolecular filament.

Hmm... perhaps enclosing flouride inside the fullerene-filaments would
make a super dental floss?

Guru Aleph-Null
Newsgroups: alt.cyberpunk.tech
From: opac@admin.acadiau.ca (PAM DIMOCK)
Subject: Re: Biochips? Yeeeaaah riiight...
Organization: Acadia University
Date: Mon, 14 Sep 1992 12:15:16 GMT

In article <716354680snx@paragon.folly.welly.gen.nz> richard@paragon.folly.welly.gen.nz (Richard Parry) writes:
>Subject: Biochips? Yeeeaaah riiight...
>From: richard@paragon.folly.welly.gen.nz (Richard Parry)
>Date: Sun, 13 Sep 92 03:24:40 GMT
>Thanks for that, Little John.  RESEARCH is NOT the same as a
>breakthrough.  They are RESEARCHING lots of things at the moment.  You
>know, how to turn lead into gold and shit.  I heard the rumour too, but
>as I don't have any _scientific_ evidence of the fact, I'm not going to
>rush around _like_ a headless chicken and say that biochips are being
>made.
>
>Nah.  My digital watch is fancier... ;)

there is an article in a receint discover mag called "if he only had a 
brain" it is about a scientist in japan who has developed a method of 
growing and stablizing modified neurons on a semiconductor chip. he believes 
that within ten years he will be able to build an artificial brain. the 
medical community is also interested because these neurons could be used in 
artifical limbs.

i mention it only in passing

--johnny vague
Newsgroups: alt.cyberpunk.tech
Subject: Biochips? Yeeeaaah riiight...
From: richard@paragon.folly.welly.gen.nz (Richard Parry)
Date: Sun, 13 Sep 92 03:24:40 GMT
Reply-To: parry_r@kosmos.wcc.govt.nz
Distribution: world
Organization: Masterful Enterprises UnLimited.


In article <BuBssx.7Aq@acsu.buffalo.edu> dewind@acsu.buffalo.edu writes:

 > >>I'm sure that they're doing experiments and popadoms and shit with
 > >>think it would be so hard to find info on?  It'd be the latest
 > >>breakthrough! 8-)

 > *smack*  I bet you were the type who didn't believe that a Microprocessor
 > could fit on one chip!  It is being RESEARCHED as we speak.  That means that
 > they haven't found amazing amounts of stuff yet.  What they are looking for 
 > is something small (ie a cell) that can exhibit two states of being and change
 > between the two with little time on a given stimuli...thus Ones and Zeroes.

Thanks for that, Little John.  RESEARCH is NOT the same as a
breakthrough.  They are RESEARCHING lots of things at the moment.  You
know, how to turn lead into gold and shit.  I heard the rumour too, but
as I don't have any _scientific_ evidence of the fact, I'm not going to
rush around _like_ a headless chicken and say that biochips are being
made.

 > Not too tough eh Einstein?  Or do you still think that your microwave 
 > oven is a nifty invention?

Nah.  My digital watch is fancier... ;)

Newsgroups: alt.cyberpunk.tech
From: pchang@Xenon.Stanford.EDU (The Weasel)
Subject: Re: n-Dimensional Cyber Space
Organization: CS Department, Stanford University, California, USA
Date:  8 Sep 92 18:22:01 GMT

olson@dstl86.gsfc.nasa.gov (Paul Olson) writes:

>It also ties back to something I saw or read somewhere.  Imagine a stack of
>planes (i.e. 2D spaces) on which reside 2D creatures.  Being constrained to
>their planes, the creatures are only able to move and interact in 2D.  But now
>comes a creature that lives in the 3D space surrounding the stack of planes. 
>That creature can take a 2D creature and move it to another plane.  In other
>words, to change from a universe of a given dimensional order, it requires a
>move through the next highest dimension.  To the creature, it would appear that
>it just popped from one universe to another.

This was done very nicely in FlatLand. I highly recommend it for anybody
thinking about higher dimensions and stuff. It is an easy read, but it
really does a good job of raising a bunch of interesting issues.

Peter
From: dewind@acsu.buffalo.edu (Idbil Fubar)
Newsgroups: alt.cyberpunk.tech
Subject: Re: Biochips? Yeeeaaah riiight...
Date: 10 Sep 92 15:45:44 GMT
Organization: UB

chubbard@beta.tricity.wsu.edu (Charles William Hubbard) writes:

>>There was an story on Beyond 2000 (Australia) about some American
>>Scientists who were getting some algae, which lived in dried out salt
>>lakes , and they were putting a film of them on a glass slide, now
>>what they do is change color on exposure to light, so they could shine 
>>a laser on them and they would change color, they could also change it 
>>back again, so there you go, binary storage.

>Yea, I remember reading an article on the very same thing in Discover
>magazine a few months ago.  As I recall the important part of the storage
>media was this dye they extracted from the algae.  It was still just a
>chemical thing.  I mean they weren't using the actual algae (right?) and
>what they were using certainly wasn't alive.  They were just using a
>molecule that happened to be convienently produced by a living organism. 
>Doesn't really seem like real "bio-chip" stuff to me though.

>I also saw an article in Discover a few months back that delt with the
>work of some Japanese researcher who was trying to grow nerve cells
>directly on a suitably doped silicon substrate.  What he was able to show
>was that by applying electric fields to channels etched on the silicon he
>could inhibit cell growth in the channels.  That meant he could create
>cell structures in whatever shape pleased him.  The devices were still
>very primative like not -even- comparing to non-bio devices.  It seems to
>me they goal was to develop a device that would allow better interfacing
>between electrical/mechanical circuits and damaged muscle tissue.  The
>goal was to help people who had been paralyzed?  Practical devices are
>still several years away.

As has been said MANY MANY times that practical devices is not how research 
starts.  Early computers were slow, hard to program, and had limited 
memory space.  Back in the old days people used to believe that space was
made of ether, Witches worshiped satan, and the earth was the center of the
universe.  but then some of us can get over our childish idiocies of disbelief
of anything that doesn't appeal to their little brains NOW.  In the future
many different things can happen..  It just takes time.

When we had vacuum tubes no one could guess how many million of them would be 
replaced by a little integrated chip.  Now we may face how many IC's can be
replaced by an OrganicChip

-Id
From: shaun@octel.com (Attacking Deep Structure)
Newsgroups: alt.cyberpunk.tech
Subject: Really sharp pig stickers made by dead Japanese guys
Summary: Posting for someone who can't post...
Date: 10 Sep 92 02:08:07 GMT
Organization: Octel Communications Inc., Milpitas Ca.

This is posted for someone who doesn't have post privs.  It's not my
fault the whole spiel is one line long.

@Man

Date: Tue, 8 Sep 92 11:51:42 EST
From: uunet!minyos.xx.rmit.OZ.AU!t921036 (Geoffrey Menon)
Subject: Re: Monomyl wire : Is it possible?
Newsgroups: alt.cyberpunk.tech
Status: OR


sorry about mailing this reply...but i can't post!!...could you please forward this to the news group...??

anyway this is how the made the katana's...(folded swords)
 
 first they got the steel..how the forged and chose the right steel i do not know...then in what was probably the most important step they powered the steel...(yes you heard me right)...and fed it to their ducks...the ducks passed it on and it was allowed to sit arraound and separate from the the ducks faeces...the importance of this step cannot be overlooked as all the greatest sword makers did it...it had the effect of adding posphorus and small amounts of magnesium to the sttell...this is what made the 


blade so light...they then forged this amalgum in the way you are aware of...but as for 1 atom thick edge...seems unlikely doesn't it...but just as i am writing this i seem to recall reading this somewhere...i'll see if i can dig up the reference...


-- 

The ___            ___________________________________________
?  /   \               t921036@minyos.xx.rmit.oz.au          ?
? |     |          ------------------------------------------?    
?  \___/\UESTION...Quia Custodes Ipsos Custodes..............?

-- 
shaun@octel.com  ||  "Now is the time on Sprockets when we Lambada!"
              
Days of Our Lives: It softens heads while you do dishes!
From: shaun@octel.com (Attacking Deep Structure)
Newsgroups: alt.cyberpunk.tech
Subject: Re: n-Dimensional Cyber Space
Date: 8 Sep 92 21:54:30 GMT
Organization: Octel Communications Inc., Milpitas Ca.

In article <1992Sep5.214552.19306@ncsu.edu> naoursla@eos.ncsu.edu (NORMAN ALAN OURSLAND) writes:
[...]
>The above information is based on experiments where researchers 
>gave primates a "dye" that would show up on a type of scanner (they use the
>same stuff on people for certain medical tests. I understand it's like drinking
>chalk). They then showed them pictures with black and white patterns on them.
>Imaging of the blood flow in their brains matched the patterns they show the
>subjects.

I think you are misinterpreting or misremembering this experiment.  If you 
could post a reference, I'd approach the limit of gratefulness.  :)

@Man

-- 
shaun@octel.com  ||  "Now is the time on Sprockets when we Lambada!"
              
Days of Our Lives: It softens heads while you do dishes!
From: dewind@acsu.buffalo.edu (Idbil Fubar)
Newsgroups: alt.cyberpunk.tech
Subject: Re: Biochips? Yeeeaaah riiight...
Date: 9 Sep 92 19:29:21 GMT
Organization: UB

edd974y@mings2.cc.monash.edu.au (N.P. Green) writes:

>richard@paragon.folly.welly.gen.nz (Richard Parry) writes:


>>In article <30AUG199218471820@zeus.tamu.edu> jrs2556@zeus.tamu.edu writes:

>>> 
>>>      I've heard about " biochips " -- computer chips that use actual
>>> living cells and use them to store ridiculously large quantities of
>>> memory.  I've also looked for material on them, and can't find any
>>> information ANYWHERE !  
>>>      Anybody out there know where I could find such info ? :)

>>Hm.  You can find info on such things in some of the best science
>>fiction around... ;)  I think someone's been pulling your chain...

>>I'm sure that they're doing experiments and popadoms and shit with
>>think it would be so hard to find info on?  It'd be the latest
>>breakthrough! 8-)

*smack*  I bet you were the type who didn't believe that a Microprocessor
could fit on one chip!  It is being RESEARCHED as we speak.  That means that
they haven't found amazing amounts of stuff yet.  What they are looking for 
is something small (ie a cell) that can exhibit two states of being and change
between the two with little time on a given stimuli...thus Ones and Zeroes.

Not too tough eh Einstein?  Or do you still think that your microwave 
oven is a nifty invention?

-id
From: d86-emh@dront.nada.kth.se (E Magnus Hulthen)
Newsgroups: alt.cyberpunk.tech
Subject: Re: n-Dimensional Cyber Space
Date: 5 Sep 92 00:34:16 GMT
Organization: Royal Institute of Technology, Stockholm, Sweden

In article <1992Sep4.151213.19047@pellns.alleg.edu> sunthej@alleg.edu (Jake Blues) writes:

   In article <3525@bcstec.ca.boeing.com> hall@bcstec.ca.boeing.com (Robert  
   J. Hall) writes:
	.
	.
   >etc. I mean an actual 4th, 5th, 6th,... and so on, spacial dimensions.)
   > 
   > Does anyone have any insights on this?

	   Actually, I have very little insight into this, although it has  
   the potential to be a helluva lot more interesting then most of the BS I  
   see here.  I have a question for you though- What exactly would constitute  
   a fourth+ spacial dimension?

							   Jake

Well this is a method for imaging (imagining ..?) 4+ dimensions.
Think of a straight line. In the center of this line you pull out 
a point with lines connecting to the ends of the original line.
The point should be moved out until the formed triangle is equilateral.
Now pull a point from the center of the triangle with lines connecting
to the end points of the triangle until you have an even faced
tetraheder. Continue using the same principle. I could never go beyond
four and honestly "see" the continuum.

I would also like to add that a four dimensional cyber space would
probably be extremely confusing to use. If four dimensions has to 
be represented it would probably be as a three-dimensional "shadow"
of the four-dimensional objects.

					/Magnus Hulthen
					d86-emh@nada.kth.se
Newsgroups: alt.cyberpunk.tech
From: boyer@EE.Stanford.EDU (Brent B. Boyer)
Subject: Re: Tactile Feedback
Organization: Stanford University
Date: Mon, 14 Sep 92 08:35:09 GMT

Paco Xander Nathan writes:
>re: little things that vibrate - for tactile

>there was a firm called TiNi that had "memory metal" feedback systems..
>boards I saw wired into a Mac for touch feedback on a Hypercard screen as one
>moved a mouse over an image..  Think there were in Berkeley - not certain.
>TiNi - titanium/nickel alloy..  Anybody got leads on this?

	You are close.  The firm's name is TiNi Alloy and they are
located in Emoryville.  The engineer who pioneered their tactile
feedback system is Paul Cutt - he has gone on to found his own virtual
reality company, Xtensory Inc., and they will be happy to sell you
their tactile feedback systems (I think they buy the material from
TiNi).

	Here is how to contact them:
	Paul Cutt
	Xtensory Inc.
	140 Sun Ridge Drive
	Scotts Valley, CA  95066
	(408) 439-0600
	fong@world.std.com	



"Your life is a test.  It is only a test.  If it was a real life, then
you would have been given better instructions on where to go and what
Newsgroups: alt.cyberpunk.tech