From: hakim@bigq.enet.dec.com (Kamran Hakim)
Subject: Re: The Baha'i Faith in Iran (was: Is U.S. Guilty?)
Organization: Digital Equipment Corporation
Date: 21 JUL 92 10:06:04    


In article <1992Jul20.150853.741@ryn.mro4.dec.com> hakim@bigq.enet.dec.com (Kamran Hakim) writes:

KH>Dear Behnam, I am familiar with the two points you have made above.
KH>I think the gist of the issue is what YOU consider as authentic or
KH>unauthentic.

In article <1992Jul21.091621.16967@cco.caltech.edu>, bes@cco.caltech.edu 
(Behnam Sadeghi) you write:

BS>Another side of the issue is that when you quote
BS>hadith, you must also comment on its authenticity.  If you don't have
BS>information about its authenticity, you must make that clear too.  
BS>(Often, Muslim laymen are not aware of this either).  One also has
BS>to comment on the ahadith or verses that contradict the hadith in
BS>question.

:-)

KH>Behnam, eventhough I am not very much interested in this, yet, if a 
KH>detailed analysis is going to clarify the point I will be very happy
KH>to discuss this and learn from you. 
KH>
KH>Perhaps the readers of S.C.I and T.P.M. are not interested in such a 
KH>discussion and another appropriate forums (i.e. talk.religion.misc) 
KH>should be used. What do you think?

BS>I said a detailed analysis is exactly what is needed.  However, I didn't
BS>wish to imply that I am in position to carry out such analysis. ^^^^^^^^
   ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

That is fine Behnam.

BS>So far, our discussion hasn't been about the Bahai religion's stand on
BS>gender relations and I don't have any comment on it (as I have not studied
BS>it).                 ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
   ^^

The problem is that NONE of the Muslim friends have studied ANYTHING
about the Baha'i Faith, yet, they find it reasonable to comment on
various aspects of the Baha'i Faith.

BS>I would like to wrap up my article by a review of what originated this
BS>discussion.  Mr. Towfiq stated that the reason for the opposition to
BS>Bahais was _not_ their theological beliefs (which constitutes Islamic 
BS>heresy), but the fact that they believed in male-female equality.

ONE of the reasons, NOT THE ONLY reason. Other reasons are:

1- Baha'is are agents of Zionism, Communism, Imperialism, etc... (negative 
   political implication)

2- Baha'i marriage is a form of family style prostitution. (negative social 
   implication)

3- Baha'is send money to Israel and support the government of that
   country. (negative political implication)

4- Etc...

NOTE: I have not included any theological reason here for the sake of 
brevity. Hopefully enough has been said in these discussions to clarify
this point.

BS>I refuted this by saying that we have people who advocated women's
BS>rights and who have attacked the traditional Iranian oppression of women,
BS>yet not only they weren't opposed, but they formed the exponents of the
BS>Islamic movement in Iran.  

No it is not a valid refutation of Mark's comment. There is a point which
you miss totally. Less than one hundred years ago, when Muslim girls and 
women were hidden inside chador and were confined to their homes (Please
consider the directives of Prophet Muhammad to educate every male and
female Muslim.), Baha'is, according to Abdu'l-Baha's directives opened up 
schools and started to send their children to these schools. Girls were 
sent to different schools from boys in order to minimize the objection of 
hostile clergymen. These centers of education were the very first schools 
built in Iran to educate children of both sexes, of all religions. The 
religious leaders of Iran sharply criticized the act suggesting that 
Baha'is are promoting prostitution by sending female children to schools, 
and as a result all Baha'i schools in Tehran, Hamadan, Kashan and many 
other locations were closed. 

Behnam, please do not give excuses for the ignorance of the clergy. Where 
were these "exponents of the Islamic movement" then to side with the 
Baha'is and promote the education of female children?

BS>I think this is a valid refutation of Mr.
BS>Towfiq's point.

This is in reality the refutation of the truth of the clergy. People
of Iran may be sleep now, however, they will refer to the books of 
history and realize the truth of this matter.

Warm regards,

Kamran Hakim
Newsgroups: soc.culture.iranian