HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: mike_steiner@qm.claris.com (Mike Steiner)
Newsgroups: rec.org.mensa
Subject: Re: Perot and trust
Date: 15 Oct 92 22:09:39 GMT
Followup-To: rec.org.mensa

In article <AKUJO0D-W@linac.fnal.gov>, crawdad@fncent (Matt Crawford)
wrote:
> 
> thomas wrentmore barnes:
> > ... they would vote for [Perot], if they didn't think that a vote
> > for Perot would be a vote taken from Clinton and a vote the could
> > help Bush win.  ... It seems to me that this is a great example of
> > "imperfect knowledge" affecting a "market", or the prisoner's
> > dilemma game ...
> 
> This sentiment was felt a lot during the Anderson campaign.  Soon
> after there appeared a column in Scientific American about the
> already-proposed but little-known balloting method called "approval
> voting."
> 
> In approval voting, each voter may vote for as many of the candidates
> as he or she wants.  The candidate with the most votes wins.
> Obviously, if you vote for all of them, that has no different effect
> from voting for none of them.  But if you favor "anybody but X," you
> have a way of saying so.

Even better would be a weighted vote.  Four four candidates, you have a
total of six votes (3+2+1+0) (five candidates would give you ten votes),
and can cast them as you like:  all six for one candidate, five for one and
one for another; three for one; two for another; and one for a third.

+---------------------------------------------------------------------+
|Now that I have a reader that can do .sigs, I can't think of a witty |
|one to put here, so I won't.  All normal disclaimers apply.          |
+---------------------------------------------------------------------+
From: Dave.Aronson@p11.f120.n109.z1.fidonet.org (Dave Aronson)
Sender: Uucp@blkcat.UUCP
Newsgroups: rec.org.mensa
Subject: Boycotting the Vote
Date: Thu, 15 Oct 1992 11:43:16 -0500

edp@math.zk3.dec.com (Eric Postpischil) writes:

 EP> they can tell that _some_ people are not voting as a protest --
 EP> there is _some_ information conveyed.

How can they distinguish it from apathy?  Even in the case of those who vote for
some other office but not for prez in the same election, can easily be
interpreted as simply caring much more about who is mayor (or whatever they did
vote for) than about who is president.  Even an unusually low voter turnout can
be easily interpreted as mass apathy rather than mass protest.

 EP> If a person votes, then there is _no_ information conveyed that they are
 EP> protesting.

Sure there is - depending who they vote for.  Vote for a third or fourth party. 
Vote for yourself.  Vote for Mickey Mouse.  Vote for None of the Above.  (Hawaii
notwithstanding.)


Newsgroups: rec.org.mensa
From: ecsd@tfs.com (Eric C. S. Dynamic)
Subject: Scott Tai does not exist
Summary: Just so you know
Organization: TRW Financial Systems
Date: Sat, 17 Oct 1992 04:13:23 GMT

Becoming more articulate's not helping you, in my eyes.
Give us a valid network address.

From MAILER-DAEMON Fri Oct 16 20:10:14 1992
Received: by ts2.TFS.COM (5.51/1.00 (TRP - mailsrv))
	id AA12540; Fri, 16 Oct 92 20:10:06 PDT
Received: from ts2.tfs.com by tfs.COM (5.61/1.00 (TRP - gateway))
	id AA09088; Fri, 16 Oct 92 20:09:28 -0700
Date: Fri, 16 Oct 92 20:09:28 -0700
From: MAILER-DAEMON (Mail Delivery Subsystem)
Subject: Returned mail: Host unknown
Message-Id: <9210170309.AA09088@tfs.COM>
To: <ecsd>

   ----- Transcript of session follows -----
550 <scott@tailab.org>... Host unknown

   ----- Unsent message follows -----
Received: from ts2.tfs.com by tfs.COM (5.61/1.00 (TRP - gateway))
	id AA09086; Fri, 16 Oct 92 20:09:28 -0700
Received: by ts2.TFS.COM (5.51/1.00 (TRP - mailsrv))
	id AA12517; Fri, 16 Oct 92 20:09:25 PDT
Date: Fri, 16 Oct 92 20:09:25 PDT
From: ecsd@ts2 (Eric C. S. Dynamic)
Message-Id: <9210170309.AA12517@ts2.TFS.COM>
To: scott@tailab.org
Subject: "Ping."
From: mike_steiner@qm.claris.com (Mike Steiner)
Newsgroups: rec.org.mensa
Subject: Re: Boycotting the Vote
Date: 13 Oct 92 22:39:29 GMT
Followup-To: rec.org.mensa

In article <1992Oct13.153842.28520@odin.corp.sgi.com>,
lana@magenta.corp.sgi.com (Lana Mountford) wrote:
> 
> Just FYI, blank ballots ARE counted in several states that I
> know of:  California, Kansas, Virginia (at least the last time
> I lived there -- 1980), Missouri, and South Carolina.  I'd
> be willing to bet that they're counted in other states, too.
> 
> Sounds to me like your biggest problem is with Hawaii.  
> 
> Me?  I intend to continue exercising my OBLIGATION under
> a republican (note the lower-case r) democracy, and vote
> in every election.  I haven't missed one yet, and yes,
> I believe my vote has made a difference.  Call me a
> wild-eyed optimist. :-)

You wild-eyed optimist, you.

+---------------------------------------------------------------------+
|Now that I have a reader that can do .sigs, I can't think of a witty |
|one to put here, so I won't.  All normal disclaimers apply.          |
+---------------------------------------------------------------------+
Newsgroups: rec.org.mensa
From: wiegand@rtsg.mot.com (Robert Wiegand)
Subject: Re: Geneticism and free will
Reply-To: motcid!wiegand@uunet.uu.net
Organization: Motorola Inc., Cellular Infrastructure Group
Date: Thu, 8 Oct 1992 14:57:10 GMT

radams@BNR.CA (Rodney Adams) writes:

>Chaos theory would imply that such a predeterminism could not exist, for
>the states of all things can not be known with arbitrary precision at any
>instant in time.  Thus, our inclinations and perception could be hormonally
>influenced without requiring the predetermination of our thoughts, i.e. 
>we may "feel" a certain way about people and things, but it is our "choice"
>to react as we do.  For example, someone who, biologically speaking, should
>be homosexual could, probably in yielding to societal or religious pressures,
>choose to be heterosexual, although this would seem unnatural to the 
>individual and might cause emotionally-related, sexual disfunction.

I don't quite agree with this. Chaos theory (as I understand it) doesn't
rule out predeterminism, it just prevents an outside observer from
predicting what will happen in the future (the predeterminism may be
"hidden", but still there).


-- 
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Robert Wiegand - Motorola Inc.
motcid!wiegand@uunet.uu.net            uunet!motcid!wiegand
Disclamer: I didn't do it - I was somewhere else at the time.
Newsgroups: rec.org.mensa
From: radams@BNR.CA (Rodney Adams)
Subject: A note to Scott Tai
Reply-To: "Rodney Adams" <RADAMS@BNR.CA>
Organization: Bell-Northern Research, Ltd.
Date: Wed, 07 Oct 1992 12:40:01 GMT

Scott:

If you have been keeping up with the homosexuality/bisexuality discussion,
you have seen that not one response from a Mensan criticized homosexuals,
with many openly defending this group of individuals who are typically
maligned even worse than ethnic and racial minorities.  Are these Mensans 
the bigots that you make them out to be?  I think not.  Rather, they have
shown themselves to be a socially-conscious group that willingly defends
the rights of others.  Think about it, Scott.
 
----------------------------------------------------------------------

Rodney G. Adams
The opinions expressed above are not necessarily those of my employer.
As if you didn't already know that....

From: Dave.Aronson@p11.f120.n109.z1.fidonet.org (Dave Aronson)
Sender: Uucp@blkcat.UUCP
Newsgroups: rec.org.mensa
Subject: Is this line thing silly?
Date: Wed, 07 Oct 1992 14:28:46 -0500

mcbeanb@brandonu.ca writes:

 m> So doesn't the above 1 dimensional line actually occupy
 m> a great deal of the volume of the physical universe over time?

Nope.  Each "incarnation" of the line is just a line, so no matter how many of
them you make or how you wiggle them, they take up a total of zero volume.

 m> I just couldn't sleep last night, and thought that up.  Is it silly?

Yup.  But we need silliness once in a while.  Or twice.

Newsgroups: rec.org.mensa
From: gmark@cbnewse.cb.att.com (gilbert.m.stewart)
Subject: Re: Ad in Air & Space
Organization: AT&T
Date: Thu, 8 Oct 1992 14:36:12 GMT

In article <BvrHon.D1q@ulowell.ulowell.edu> akearns@cs.ulowell.edu (Adam Kearns) writes:
>
>	Hi.  I saw an ad in Air & Space magazine (and I'm sure it's in
>others) from Mensa.  It said "Take This Instant Test To See If You're A Genius."
>and had this problem
>
>	      0   1   2   3   4   5   6   7   8   9   =  1
>
>You're supposed to put in + and - signs in the correct places
>so the expression is true (the sum will equal 1.)  It also states that
>"This problem stups 45% of the Mensa members who try it.  And they all
>have IQs in the top 2% nationwide."  I looked at it, and solved it in 
>less than five minutes.  I was just wondering if 1) they're 
>exaggerating the 45% figure, 2) there is supposed to be a time limit
>on the problem, or 3) this means I'm a genius.  I'm not a member, but
>I was just curious to know what you people thought.  I'll put my answer below

This looks like a rather unimaginative puzzle, especially considering
that it is probably usually solved by brute force.  I'd imagine that
if they are not exaggerating the 45% figure, they probably stopped
these people in an airport, showed them the puzzle on a card and
gave them a timelimit of some sort so they'd end up annoyed and
blow the person off.

Also, this would be an ideal entry into the debate about "intelligence
vs. IQ".  If this puzzle can instantly tell if I'm a genius, then
let's get rid of all those other IQ tests.

GMS
From: jwp@chem.ucsd.edu (John Pierce)
Newsgroups: rec.org.mensa
Subject: Re: How do you vote when only one candidate's name is on the ballot?
Date: 16 Oct 92 21:34:34 GMT
Article-I.D.: network.1bnchaINN3oo
Organization: Chemistry Dept, UC San Diego
NNTP-Posting-Host: chedccf0.ucsd.edu

hnewstrom@hnewstrom.ess.harris.com (Harvey Newstrom) writes:
 > 
 > What's the point in voting?  The nominating committee has seen fit to
 > choose one name to appear on the ballot for Chairman, First Vice Chairman,
 > Second Vice Chairman and Treasurer, even though multiple people are
 > seeking election to each position....

What would you have them do?  Nominate *everybody* who thinks they want a
national office?
 
 > Unless the other candidates can get petitions signed by enough of the
 > membership to override this decision....

If somebody who wants a national office can't find 50 members out of 50000
to sign their petition, then they bloody well don't deserve the office.
Personally, I think the petition process is MUCH too easy; I would much
prefer something like:

    RVC		150 signatures from the region, no more than 1/3 from a
		single local group.

    non-RVC	300 signatures, no more than 1/3 from a single region

This would help ensure that petition candidates really do have a fairly wide
base of support in the area they want to represent.  It would also make it
harder for some of our more egregious kooks to muddy the election waters.

I also think that the NomComm's role should be changed somewhat:

    1.  Their work should take place *after* the petition period.
    
    2.  They should only be *required* to ensure that there is at least one
	properly qualified candidate for each office, and only *required* to
	nominate one if there is no qualified petition candidate.
	
    3.  They should be *allowed* to nominate candidates, if they so desire,
	even if there are qualified petition candidates.

This would prevent arguments like Harvey's, and would remove from the NomComm
what is all too often a fairly heavy burden.  It would also get the Election
Committee out of what I think should be NomComm business:  establishing the
procedures for people to be nominated by petition, verifying petitions, etc
(and, yes, that's somewhat self-serving :-).

-- John Pierce, Chemistry, UC San Diego
   jpierce@ucsd.edu
   LocSec, San Diego Mensa
   Chair, National Election Committee
Newsgroups: rec.org.mensa
From: "drew hamilton" <drew.hamilton@canrem.com>
Subject: ...
Reply-To: "drew hamilton" <drew.hamilton@canrem.com>
Organization: Canada Remote Systems
Distribution: rec
Date: 11 Oct 92 23:23:57 EST

Hi.  Yesterday, I read a text file by you about Frequently Asked
Questions.  Anyway, I just figured i'd better let you know that the
Canadian contact person that you listed is dead.  It was actually quite
embarrasing, becasue this morning I called up Mensa Canada for
information about joining, and the person I asked for had passed away.
If you're interested, i can get you the new name and adress (the phone
number stayed the same, thank God) of Mensa Canada...

                                                                        drew
---
  OLX 2.1 TD  No, Taco Bell is *NOT* the Mexican phone company!
--
Canada Remote Systems  - Toronto, Ontario
World's Largest PCBOARD System - 416-629-7000/629-7044
From: Dave.Aronson@p11.f120.n109.z1.fidonet.org (Dave Aronson)
Sender: Uucp@blkcat.UUCP
Newsgroups: rec.org.mensa
Subject: The An-Tai conspiracy game
Date: Mon, 12 Oct 1992 11:48:10 -0500

tbarnes@silver.ucs.indiana.edu (thomas wrentmore barnes) writes:

 twb> How "Tai" may be a Bourbaki-style group, having fun with us.

A what?

Newsgroups: rec.org.mensa
From: ecsd@tfs.com (Eric C. S. Dynamic)
Subject: Re: The Providence of Astrology
Organization: TRW Financial Systems
Date: Wed, 7 Oct 1992 05:03:00 GMT

ecsd:
>I have to make some money to buy more booze. No - actually, after 37.5
>bottles of Ouzo, I think it's time to give my liver a *long* rest, I got
>what I went there for.

gmark@cbnewse.cb.att.com (gilbert.m.stewart) writes:
>Christ, Chris, how can we know what you're like sans ouzo?  "Wait, I
>meant Taurus, NOT Capricorn!  You're totally fucked instead of rich!"

Nope. My writing gets colored, maybe a little looser. The mind is intact.
Grady McMurtry said, "If you can't drive a car while tripping, you don't
belong in the O.T.O." - well, I passed that test before I ever heard of it.
Drugs: the emotional frame changes, is all.

ecsd:
>I missed some earlier mail, have to go back and look - GMS wanted to know
>what happened in soc.bi - I'll get to that. rec.nude is getting testy too,

GMS:
>You are one mischievous SOB.  Anything in alt.simpsons?  soc.siamese.twins?

I've dabbled in rec.nude, soc.bi, soc.men, soc.women, soc.feminism (except I
can't post there, as Muffy is one of the moderators and she & I are - shall
I say - not on freindly terms), alt.feminism, alt.sex, alt.astrology, alt.rave,
alt.drugs. Kinda confirms my mini-self-chart-reading, huh?

I'll post the "soc.bi" story maybe this weekend, after I discharge my god-
damned social obligations, to wit Karleen's chart at the very least. The poor
girl is hanging on a remark in private mail, she wonders what can I possibly
have to say? So I want to get to it quickly, and - I have *work* to do to
*eat*, irritating . . .

ecsd:
>Now, now, let's all be nice . . .

GMS:
>Now, what's that quote about "Monkeys flying out of your butt..."?

I wouldn't know. I am too young to be allowed to read things like that.
Never liked scatological images that much either . . .
*sigh* so where does it come from, and what does it mean?
From: Dave.Aronson@p11.f120.n109.z1.fidonet.org (Dave Aronson)
Sender: Uucp@blkcat.UUCP
Newsgroups: rec.org.mensa
Subject: The Providence of Astrology
Date: Fri, 09 Oct 1992 10:14:50 -0500

gmark@cbnewse.cb.att.com (gilbert.m.stewart)

 g> cjdcosta@eos.ncsu.edu (CHRISTOPHER J DCOSTA) writes:

 CJD> Where there's a monkey's will, there's a monkey's way.

 g> Or a dead monkey.

But if you put an infinite number of dead monkeys in front of broken
typewriters, will they eventually type the lyrics to "Dead Puppies"?


Newsgroups: rec.org.mensa
From: ksdavis@silver.ucs.indiana.edu (Karleenus Schwartz Davis)
Subject: Re: Is this line thing silly?
Organization: Indiana University
Date: Thu, 8 Oct 1992 06:21:07 GMT


>ksdavis@silver.ucs.indiana.edu (Karleenus Schwartz Davis)

>>-sz  (Dives back into Grunbaum, Russell, St. Augustine, McTaggart. . .)
>>   ((You hear a tortured, muffled scream from somewhere in Indiana. . .))

cjdcosta@eos.ncsu.edu (CHRISTOPHER J DCOSTA) writes:

>:-7 So did you hit Grunbaum, Russell, St. Augustine, or McTaggart ?

I'd *like* to hit McTaggart. . .unfortunately, I have to objectively
relate his argument without inserting my measly undergraduate opinions.

-sz  (whose entire worldview gets blown to bits every class session)
From: hnewstrom@hnewstrom.ess.harris.com (Harvey Newstrom)
Newsgroups: rec.org.mensa
Subject: How do you vote when only one candidate's name is on the ballot?
Date: 15 Oct 92 17:39:33 GMT
Organization: Harris Corporation

In article <1992Oct12.031110.26945@murdoch.acc.Virginia.EDU>, jlc5f@poe.acc.Virginia.EDU (Jean L. Cooper) writes:
> 
> If you don't pay the membership dues, there are a few things
> that you won't be able to do:
> 
> You won't be able to vote in the election of national officers
> and vote out the people you think are mismanaging the organization.
> 
> I guess which choice you make depends a lot on your attitude
> toward the organization.

What's the point in voting?  The nominating committee has seen fit to choose one name to appear on the ballot
for Chairman, First Vice Chairman, Second Vice Chairman and Treasurer, even though multiple people are
seeking election to each position.  Unless the other candidates can get petitions signed by enough of the
membership to override this decision, the selected people will be declared the winners without an election
because they are running "unopposed!"  Most of the membership will never know that they were denied a chance
to vote for the candidate of their choice.  Why even claim to have an election if a committee can decide
the winners?  I can only hope that there are enough people willing to sign petitions to override this.
From: mike_steiner@qm.claris.com (Mike Steiner)
Newsgroups: rec.org.mensa
Subject: Re: Perot and trust
Date: 15 Oct 92 22:06:28 GMT
Followup-To: rec.org.mensa

In article <Bw5Bot.JDq@usenet.ucs.indiana.edu>,
ksdavis@silver.ucs.indiana.edu (Karleenus Schwartz Davis) wrote:
> 
> as010b@uhura.cc.rochester.edu (andrew david simchik) writes:
> >
> >>	Mind you, this is the average voter we are discussing.  The
> >>*intelligent* voter will vote for Clinton. :)
> 
> crossgl@infonode.ingr.com (Gordon Cross) writes:
> >
> >No, the *intelligent* voter will choose Marrou ...
> >
> >:-)  :-)  :-)
> 
>               . . .if he wants Bush to win.  :-(  :-(  :-(
> 
> Unfortunately, no matter whether Marrou or Perot or Scott Tai
> really would make a better president or not, a vote for them 
> is essentially a vote for Bush. (or some fraction thereof)
> 
> Someone posted (on another thread) about some kind of approval
> ballot, where you say Yes/No to Bush, Yes/No to Clinton, etc. . .
> but I suppose it's a pipe dream -- it would remove a lot of the 
> advantage of the two major parties, so it'll never be implemented.
> 
> I wish there was a way to make it "smart" to vote for a third
> party or independant candidate without cutting off your own feet.

I have reluctantly come to this conclusion.  I have long maintained that
"not voting Libertarian (or Green, or American Independent, or
whatever--although my preference is Libertarian) because it is a wasted
vote" is a very bad reason for not voting for one of those parties.  It is
not a wasted vote if it means that it helps establish the party's
credibility to enhance its chances in a future election, and/or if it is a
valid way to not vote for Tweedledum or Tweedledee, and yet still vote. 
However, this race is showing that Bush and Clinton are not a matter of
Tweedledum and Tweedledee; it had evolved (devolved?) to a situation where
"anyone but Bush" is just about the only way to go.  However, Clinton is
the only candidate who has a realistic chance of beating Bush.  If the
election were to be held today, I'd vote for Marrou, but the way things are
going, by the time Nov 3rd rolls around, I'll most likely vote for Clinton.

Gad, I *hate* sacrificing principle for practicality--I Hate it; I hate it;
I hate it!!!  But, sometimes you have to bite the bullet and do it.

<getting off soapbox>

+---------------------------------------------------------------------+
|Now that I have a reader that can do .sigs, I can't think of a witty |
|one to put here, so I won't.  All normal disclaimers apply.          |
+---------------------------------------------------------------------+
Newsgroups: rec.org.mensa
From: tbarnes@silver.ucs.indiana.edu (thomas wrentmore barnes)
Subject: Re: The An-Tai conspiracy game
Organization: Indiana University
Date: Fri, 9 Oct 1992 01:38:00 GMT

In article <1992Oct6.065446.6344@tfs.com> ecsd@tfs.com (Eric C. S. Dynamic) writes:
>The An-Tai conspiracy, a fun game for young and old alike:
>
>I had been informed through private mail as follows:
>
Much evidence deleted.
>Here is what I think about this:
>
>(1) I have access to a Unix security hack, and I will ask him to help track
>    Tai down.
>
Have you considered that Dr. N.O. Tai, and the various other alias he
has posted under might be used by more than one person?

Have you considered that a person or group of persons using the "Tai"
name might be baiting the members of this group, just to see who
responds?

Have you considered, given the volume and repetitiveness of the various
postings that some or all of the "Tai" postings might be machine
generated?

If any or all of these things are true, then you do not have disgruntled
individual with an axe to grind vs. Mensans, rather you have a clever
hacker or group of hackers, teasing Mensans into responding. More
harmful and clever computer tricks have been performed in the past. Why
ouldn't this be one of them?

Somebody could get their thrills by having the "Baiters become the
baited".

The fact that people posted some 50+ messages consisting of little more
than "Nyah! So's yer mudda", is kind of silly, and just goes to show
that high IQ doesn't always coorelate well with common sense. ;) ;) ;)

Tom \|/
     0   (who mostly enjoys this newsgroup, and mostly lurks)
From: phil@miracle.com (Phil Hill)
Newsgroups: rec.org.mensa
Subject: Re: t// Re: Meaning of Intelligence
Date: Wed, 07 Oct 92 01:30:41 EDT
Organization: Miracle Computer Consultants

Scott A Tai (or one of his personalities) writes:
> $ while true
> > do
> > echo tai sucks | mail tai@ailab.ncsu.edu
> > done
> 
> $ yes "tai sucks" | mail tai@ailab.ncsu.edu

Tai, I'm not that stupid.

Since tai@ailab.ncsu.edu is a totally bogus address, any mail sent to it would
just bounce.  I'd end up sending mail bombs to myself.

I consider this kind of posting extremely harmful.  It's not enought that you
abuse usenet by forging postings, you are now encourging people to send mail
bombs.  Even worse, since people would only end up bombing themselves.  If
someone less familiar with the net tried to follow your advice, he would
probably end up losing access to the net.

I've been ignoring most of the drivel that you have been posting, but I'll
warn you that if you continue to post harmful shit like this again, I'll
see that you lose you access to the net.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
| Phil Hill                     | "All you people in TV land,           |
| Miracle Computer Consultants  |   I will wake up your empty shells.   |
|                               |  Peak time viewing blown in a flash,  |
|                               |   as I burn into your memory cells.   |
| Email: phil@miracle.com       |  'cause I'm alive." - Peter Gabriel   |








Newsgroups: rec.org.mensa