HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: hagel@stsci.edu
Subject: Re:  Adventures in the 1800s
Organization: Space Telescope Science Institute
Distribution: na
Date: Thu, 7 Jan 1993 22:44:13 GMT


Kevin Charles Rubio (ensalada@cats.ucsc.edu) writes:

>While there may be some brief scenes in the period, the stories which
>have major scenes in the 19th century are:
>
>The Gunfighters  (1881)
>The Evil of the Daleks  (1866)
>The Talons of Weng-Chiang  (1889)
>Mark of the Rani  (1900)
>Timelash  (1885)
>Ghost Light  (I don't recall the precise year, and my information stretches
>              only to series 25, but it's definitely in the 1800s, since it
>              apparently is in Darwin's lifetime -- 1809-1882)
>


Very good!  However, fashion history is one of my hobbies and the 
costumes used in some cases above indicate other dates.

In "The Talons of Weng-Chiang", the women's clothing (including Leela's) 
is within a year or 2 on either side of 1895.

For "Mark of the Rani", did you mean to type 1800 instead of 1900?  The history 
of the steam engine and Peri's costume put this story at 1815 - 1820.

And as for "Ghost Light", it is indeed the 1880's, but the bustle shown in 
several costumes only came back into style (it was the vogue in the 1870's,
then disappeared for a while) about  1883 - 1884.

The costumes in "The Gunfighters" are hokey TV western stuff and thus 
undatable.  We don't see enough Earth costumes in "Timelash" to get an 
accurate fix, although the cut of Herbert's suit looks like the more 
relaxed 1890s than the (buttoned-)up-tight 1880s.  (Then again, H.G. Wells
_can't_ have been that callow for very long after the point in his life
where we meet him, so that supports the earlier date.)  I haven't seen "The
Evil of the Daleks", but the stills I've seen of Victoria in a hoopskirt
look more like 1855-1860. 

Kevin, I'd be interested in hearing how you arrived at your dates.

BTW, an earlier poster inquired if "The Highlanders" also took place in the 
1800s.  Afraid not.  The plot involved the Battle of Culloden Fields
(Bonnie Prince Charlie's forces' last stand against the English), which
took place in the 1740's. (1743, if I remember correctly). 


Hope this is useful.



Crystal Hagel
From: wilson@cs.ucf.edu (tom wilson)
Subject: Re: Constants a Movie should observe
Organization: University of Central Florida, Orlando
Date: Mon, 11 Jan 1993 04:14:44 GMT

lidz@midway.uchicago.edu wrote:
>Has anyone given thought to the fact that the movie will PROBABLY be *SHORTER* than most Dr. Who stories?

By my rough calculations, the average story length is 4 1/2 episodes which is
about 1:45. Edit out the in between credits and that's slightly more than 1:35.
Given that "most" is much more than "half", I would say that if the movie were
95 minutes, MOST stories would not be longer than the movie.

To answer the question, no ("fact" and "probably" in the same sentence...?).

Tom
From: rpk@niagara.edu (Richard P. Kernin)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.drwho
Subject: Missing from FTP Archive
Date: 11 Jan 93 06:32:00 GMT
Organization: University at Buffalo
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41

Greetings fellow Whovians,

The following are missing from the Doctor Who FTP Archive site, and since
I can't get ahold of the mail server, I'm asking for your help!  If you have
*any* of these items, please mail them to me at (rpk@niagara.edu) or upload
them to the /incoming directory of the archive at (frontios.niagara.edu).
Any/all help is *greatly* appreciated!  I'm hoping to make as much as
possible available to the net, and this will polish off the collection.

Take care.

-Rich

The following was culled from the Doctor Who FAQ, and is what is needed:
------------------------------------------------------------------------------

1. Timelord list - a complete list of timelords that have appeared on DW.
                                                    ("timelords")
2. Shada info                                       ("shada")
4. Companion analysis by James Armstrong            ("companions")
8. Other roles of Dr. Who actors                    ("other_roles")
                                                    ("drwho_roles")
10. The Stories of Nyssa series, the index "nyssa_guide". 
	[NOTE!, I have 8 Nyssa stories currently, but need the index file
		"nyssa_guide"]

11. The Romana 'n' Dave series:
     Episode Guide                                          ("romana.readme") 
     Romana-'n-Dave-related articles from Tom Golden.         ("romana_news")
     AN UNEARTHLY JOKE / THE WAD OF GUM (episodes 1 through 5)   ("wadofgum")
     REVENGE OF THE BAKER-MAN (episodes 5 through 8)             ("bakerman")
     AQUA-VALVA (episodes 9 through 13)                         ("aquavalva")
     SIGMA (THE ULTIMATE FAUX) (episode 14                          ("sigma")
     'N.', 'B.' AND 'C' (episodes 15 through 18)                      ("nbc")
     SHADAAP (episodes 19 through 22)                             ("shadaap")
     VENGEANCE ON VALIUM (episodes 23 through 26)               ("vengeance")
     THE UNDIFFERENTIATED APPENDAGE OF GENERIC ILL-FEELING (episodes 27 to 30)
                                                                ("appendage")
     THE TRIAL OF A TALK SHOW HOST (STORY 1) (episodes 31 through 35)
                                                                      ("tth1")
     THE TRIAL OF A TALK SHOW HOST (STORY 2) (episodes 36 through 40)
                                                                      ("tth2")
     THE TRIAL OF A TALK SHOW HOST (STORY 3) (episodes 41 through 44)
           						              ("tth3")

------------------------------------------------------------------------------

---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Richard P. Kernin
Niagara University - Administrative Computer Center

Niagara University:	rpk@niagara.edu
University of Buffalo:	visnurpk@ubvms.cc.buffalo.edu
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Newsgroups: rec.arts.drwho
From: lizb@banyan.com
Subject: Re: The New Adventures (again - you probably think I'm obsessed!)
Organization: Banyan Systems. Inc.
Date: Fri, 8 Jan 1993 22:23:25 GMT

Sorry if you see this twice...my connection dropped in the middle of 
editing.

In article <1993Jan8.132656@cogs.sussex.ac.uk> richs@cogs.sussex.ac.uk (Richard Salter) writes:
>
>I think it's a bit of a shame that they seem to be losing sight of what
>Doctor Who is, was and should be. Love & War and Transit were great
>Sci Fi stories, but they weren't Doctor Who. 

My first question:  What do you think Doctor Who is, was, and should be?

I finally managed to get my hands on all the books (with the exception
of Transit, which I expect I'll have to do some searching for).  I 
agree that some of them don't really "feel" like Who, but judging by
your comments we'd probably disagree about which ones.  In general, I
feel that most of the authors have developed the characters in a direction
compatible with the way the things were going when the series stopped
being produced.  Some of the actual plots were, in my opinion, a bit
wanting; but some of them (_Timewyrm: Exodus_, for example) felt dead-
on to me.  (I know we must disagree on this, because I'd also include
both of Paul Cornell's books - the only two so far that I've read
twice.)

For me, the one that was farthest off-base was _Cat's Cradle: Warhead_.
It had a lot of strong science-fiction elements, but it just didn't
play like Who for me.  I think this was largely because Andrew Cartmel's
characterizations of the Doctor and Ace didn't seem to fit with the
way they'd been drawn before.  I think _Nightshade_ suffered the same
way, although to a much lesser extent.

Overall, though, I've been pleased with the way the novels have been
going.  Even _Timewyrm: Apocalypse_, which is (in my opinion) the 
least well-written (or perhaps least sophisticated) of the lot, felt
pretty Who-like to me.

All this, of course, is only my opinion; and without the context of
the first question, which is probably the crux of the whole subject,
it doesn't mean much.  So what does everyone feel is the "spirit"
of Doctor Who?

>I also get the impression that the authors are battling for the "most
>obscure ending" prize. Love & War holds that title at the moment for me.

For me, that one goes to _Time's Crucible_, easy.  The story ended, and
then a bunch of other stuff happened...thought for a minute I was
reading a Stephen King novel! ;-)

>Just some random ramblings, but I'd welcome comments.

And comments you received. 

>Happy Halibut II

Hm...just how many of you fish are there, anyway?? ;-)

Liz
lizb@banyan.com
Newsgroups: rec.arts.drwho
From: richs@cogs.sussex.ac.uk (Richard Salter)
Subject: Re: Celery
Organization: University of Sussex
Date: Tue, 5 Jan 1993 15:16:34 GMT

In article <1604@ozz.oasis.icl.co.uk>, cwa@oasis.icl.co.uk (Chris Adams) writes:
|> I thought he first got it in "The Visitation", in the barn while talking
|> to Richard Mace as I remember. (It's the only story from that season my
|> dad still has on tape so I have watched it quite a lot). I dunno, he may
|> have got it first in "Castrovalva" and just replaced it in "Visitation"

When the Doctor entered Castrovalva he was sat down at a table and provided
with sticks of celery. "Definitely civilisation!" is his comment as he takes
a bit from one. I thought that he acquired it after this scene but I really
can't remember. Ho hum, loads of use I am.

Happy Halibut II
From: ph9991_manfr@rivers.acc.uwrf.edu
Newsgroups: rec.arts.drwho
Subject: Re: Constants a Movie should observe
Date: 10 Jan 93 21:08:26 GMT
Organization: University of Wisconsin - River Falls

> 
>>There are few constants in all of the television series, but what few there
>>are I feel are sort of "sacred" and should be observed in the movie, and
>>then everything else is open to whatever the producers want.  I feel like
>>is these particular things aren't done, then I can't consider it "official"
>                                               ^...?
>>Doctor Who. 
> 
> [list of restrictions deleted]
> 
>>Just get those things right, or mostly right, and I'll be happy.
> 
> I guess there won't be an "official" Doctor Who movie then!
> 
> Why does it have to conform to the series? There are bunch of different
> versions of Star Trek, but it's all still Trek. The fact that they are all
> different is what makes them fresh. Even if you restrict yourself to the
> original series and the movies, the movies have enough differences, but they
> still worked. The ship was different, they even destroyed it, and there wasn't
> a problem.

The "constants" I mentioned were all cosmetic ones.  They would have no
bearing on the story or the casting or 97% of the sets or anything else.
> 
> I think the only requirements behind a Doctor Who movie are that (1) the
> Doctor is in it (and he's basically the same character), (2) he has some form
> of TARDIS (so he fixes the chameleon circuit - granted it SHOULD look like a
> police box, but I'll live), (3) the movie has a theme similar to the show.
> 
> Credits? Music? etc. Who cares? Let the movie be different from the series.
> People who aren't satisfied will only call out more loudly for the return of
> the series.

Yes, those credit restrictions I gave are admittedly nit-picky, and I can
probably live without those too, but my point is it would be very nice if
those traditions could be observed. 

> 
> If it's going to be like the series, then it has to be a bunch of episodes,
> and that will get expensive paying for them individually at the theatre. 8-)
> (when will the Doctor Who movie come out in episode format!)
> 

No, I don't expect an episode format movie.  


> Tom


Steven.K.Manfred
Xref: sparky rec.arts.drwho:9405 misc.forsale:35173 ne.forsale:5797 rec.arts.sf.marketplace:729
From: glazier@isr.harvard.edu (Andrew Baker Glazier)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.drwho,misc.forsale,ne.forsale,ba.forsale,rec.arts.sf.marketplace
Subject: Dr Who Books For Sale
Date: 12 Jan 93 14:30:27 GMT
Article-I.D.: burrhus.1993Jan12.143027.4444
Organization: Harvard University, Cambridge, MA

M = cover price = usually $3.95
NM = $3.50
OK = +- $2 - $2.50 - make an offer

     Label     Title                         Condition
                                        Mint = M
                                        Near Mint= NM
                                        OK = Cosmetic Damage
               Dalek Invasion Of Earth       M
               Dominators                    NM   
               Marco Polo                    NM
               Mysterious Planet             NM
               Myth Makers                   NM
               Planet Of Fire                OK
               Terror Of The Autons          NM
               The Twin Dilemma              OK
               The Aztecs                    M
               The Zarbi                     M
               The Daleks                    OK
               The Mark Of The Rani          NM
               Unearthly Child               NM
Pinnacle       Android Invasion              OK 1nd & 2ndprinting
               Dinosaur Invasion             OK
               Doomsday Terror               OK
               Genesis Of The Daleks         OK
               Loch Ness Monster             NM
               Masque of Mandragora          OK
               Day Of The Daleks             M
               Revenge Of The Cybermen       OK
               Seeds Of Doom                 NM
               Talons Of Weng Chiang         NM
Ballantine
Find Your Fate Race Against Time             M
FASA           
Solo Play      Dr W:  Vortex Crystal(4rth dr)     NM
               Dr W: Rebel's Gamble  (6th dr)     OK      

Target         2nd Dr W Quiz Book            M
               Harry Sullivan's War

-- 
"A horse! A horse! Somebody give me a horse, man, because|glazier@ 
I come to bury this dirtball, not to praise him. Whaddya |harvard.isr.edu
think I am? Whether it's nobler for the mind to make people suffer with all
these totally outrageous arrows arrows for a fortune, or what!" -- D.R.
Newsgroups: rec.arts.drwho
From: lizb@banyan.com
Subject: Colin Baker: recommendations wanted
Organization: Banyan Systems, Inc.
Date: Sat, 9 Jan 1993 23:02:25 GMT

My local PBS station has just started showing the Colin Baker episodes, which
I am (of course!) videotaping.  My usual habit with Doctor Who is to tape the
average episodes on LP, packing two or three on one tape; but episodes that
are particularly good I like to put on their own tape.  (The truly dreadful
ones I don't bother taping at all - I guess that loses me "completist"
status. ;-))

Trouble is, I haven't seen any of the Colin Baker episodes (except "The Twin
Dilema", which, before today, I'd seen something like eight years ago).  
Would someone (prefereably someone who *likes* Colin's Doctor) be willing
to share opinions on which episodes are perhaps worthy of their own tapes?

(BTW, I enjoyed "The Twin Dilema" MUCH more than I'd remembered.  Perhaps
having seen bits of Sylvester's Doctor made it easier for me to accept the
vast differences between Peter Davison's Doctor and Colin's.  Those kids,
though, still couldn't act their way out of a paper bag. ;-))

Thanks to all,
Liz

lizb@banyan.com
From: rad@cix.compulink.co.uk (Cray Communications)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.drwho
Subject: Bill & Ted's Excellent Adventure
Date: 5 Jan 1993 08:21:17 -0600
Organization: UTexas Mail-to-News Gateway
Reply-To: rad@cix.compulink.co.uk
NNTP-Posting-Host: cs.utexas.edu


Just watched this.

Was the time-travelling telephone box a dig at Dr Who or just a 
coincidence ?

Richard
From: ensalada@cats.ucsc.edu (Kevin Charles Rubio)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.drwho
Subject: Re: The Doctor's Love Interest
Date: 5 Jan 1993 05:17:07 GMT
Organization: University of California; Santa Cruz
Reply-To: keeper@deeptht.armory.com
NNTP-Posting-Host: si.ucsc.edu


In article <k0gswB2w165w@lakes.trenton.sc.us> rock@lakes.trenton.sc.us (Rockerboy) writes:
>I thought Susan claimed to be from Gallifrey in the first episode.


The name "Gallifrey" wasn't invented until 1973, in `The Time Warrior'.

Susan and the Doctor spoke a few times of their home.  Susan laments for
it in `The Sensorites'.

I'm not sure what is said in the first episode, as I haven't it on tape.
I do have the pilot version, however, which said a lot more.  Of course,
one probably can't consider it to be `canon' although the pilot version
was in fact the one used when nostalgic references were made in `Remembrance
of the Daleks' (I've mentioned how this is apparent too many times, so
will just say "trust me" on it this time).

Anyway, what is said in the pilot is, by Susan: "I was born in the 49th
century" (that doesn't say anything); by the Doctor: "We are exiles, cut
off from our own planet by aeons and universes far beyond the reach of
your most advanced sciences" (that >does< say something).

But I can't remember what the equivalent line is in the `real' version.
I don't suppose it mentions, as this one does, that they were from the
same planet.

--
Email replies must be sent to keeper@deeptht.armory.com


From: stephane.boyer@p35.f290.n167.z1.hexacom.UUCP (stephane boyer)
Sender: FredMail@hexacom.UUCP
Newsgroups: rec.arts.drwho
Subject: I answer the challenge of Simon Patience #2
Date: Tue, 12 Jan 1993 13:02:39 -0500

 > From: yadallee@ersys.edmonton.ab.ca (Dave Shariff Yadallee)
 > Subject: I answer the challenge of Simon Patience

 > Till now, I have not met the challenge, so today, I list the shows,
 > staring with those that have individual newsgroups for themselves:

 > Doctor Who
 > Monty Python
 > Blake's 7
 > The Prisoner
 > Secret Agent
 > The Saint
 > Butterflies
 > Fawlty Towers
 > A Very British Coup
 > Traffik
 > BBC World Sercive TV News
 > Are You being served?
 > Black Adder
 > Mr. Bean
 > Rowan Atkinson Live
 > Star Cops
 > Waiting For God
 > Shakespeare (BBC & ITN)
 > Tiger on the Tiles
 > BBC series on Miss Marple
 > Sherlock Holmes (BBC & ITN)

 > There are others.  Fellow N.A. netters, please help me out and help the
 > Britons to determine the ratio of British shows sent overseas/ British
 > shows
 > produced.

Piglet Files,
Drop the Dead Donkey,
Spittin' Image,
RED DWARF,
Allo' Allo',
Hitchhikers guide to the galaxy,
Home and Away....

 * Origin: Stephane.Boyer@HexaCom.UUCP (1:167/290.35)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.drwho
From: xoanon@carina.unm.edu (timothy k istian soholt)
Subject: Re: The Doctor's Love Interest
Date: Thu, 07 Jan 93 19:01:14 GMT
Organization: University of New Mexico, Albuquerque

langbein@pilot.njin.net (John Langbein) writes:

>Well, We have a clue. Leela remained on Gallifrey to marry the guard
>(Name slips my mind), anyway, the Doctor since returned to Gallifrey,
>and asked how she was. Anyone remember more clearly if kids were
>mentioned? 

I'm not absolutely certain, but I'm pretty sure that the line was
something along the lines of "How's my old friend Leela doing?"
and nothing more.

-- Tim Soholt (xoanon@carina.unm.edu)
From: yadallee@ersys.edmonton.ab.ca (Dave Shariff Yadallee)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.drwho
Subject: Re: The Valeyard's TRUE goals
Date: Sat, 09 Jan 93 06:33:45 MST
Organization: Edmonton Remote Systems #3, Edmonton, AB, Canada

echristo@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (Elena A Christofides) writes:

- In article <JT92wB2w165w@ersys.edmonton.ab.ca> yadallee@ersys.edmonton.ab.ca
- ave Shariff Yadallee) writes:
- >bgrubb@dante.nmsu.edu (GRUBB) writes:
- >
- >- When the Master said 'between your 12th and last regeneration' when descri
- n
- >                                                   ^^^^^^^^^^^^
- >- the Valeyard it was NOT a mistake by the writers or by the Master.  We kno
- >- from 'Twin Dilemma" that Time Lords DO have a THIRTEENTH regeneration, but
- t
- >- is normally fatal.  This 13th regeneration is also implied when the Master
- >- steals the Keeper of Traken's body (Instead of being fatal the 13th
- >- regeneration results in a new form.)  As the Valeyard is the Doctor's 14th
- >- incarnation the Master knows that the Valeyard will fail in getting more
- >- regenerations from his past self and, foolishly,  believes that the Valeya
- >- will not have the opotunity to hijack a body like the Master did.
- >
- > Point of order here!!
- >
- >  In Trial of a Timelord Part 13, The word is NOT regeneration, it is
- >INCARNATION!  The Valeyard IS INDEED The Watcher for the 12th Doctor in othe
- >that the Doctor can regenerate to final incarnation!!
- >
- >Dave Shariff Yadallee
-
- Dave, could you please explain yourself?
-
- I'm sorry if I'm a little slow on the uptake - but, what *EXACTLY*
- do you mean by *incarnation* as opposed to *regeneration*?
-
- And about the watcher???????
-
- Elena

I will have to tag this one.

regeneration: the proces of having the physical appearance altered.

incarnation: the physcial aspect of the timelord.

Thus, 5th regeneration takes place whilst the timelord is in 5th incarnation
having his/her appearance change to 6th appearance.

From Logopolis, the 4th Doctor, Doctor mark 4 or Doctor incarnation 4, had
a "Watcher regenration" where a ghostly catalyst walked towards the Doctor
going from 4th Incarnation to 5th Incarnation.

Hence the following theory:  The Valeyard is a catalyst from Doctor 12th
Incarnation to doctor last incarnation, i.e., the Valeyard is quasi-existant.

Oh yes.  Elena, PLEASE be careful of triplicate postings.

Uniting Whovians via the net,


Dave Shariff Yadallee (B. Sc. (Econ/Math) (U of Alberta 1990) )
 (yadallee@ersys.edmonton.ab.ca, userLIBE@mts.ucs.ualberta.ca)
God Save the Queen, God Bless us All! Remember! Jesus Saves!!
Birthdate: 29 Jan 1969, Redhill, Surrey, England, UK