HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: marcia@virga.ucar.edu (Marcia Politovich)
Subject: Re: Book Rec.: _Bodies: Overcoming the Tyranny of Perfection_
Organization: Research Applications Program/NCAR, Boulder, CO
Date: Tue, 6 Oct 1992 17:05:29 GMT

In article <Bvoyz7.BJz@usenet.ucs.indiana.edu> kiran@bronze.ucs.indiana.edu (Kiran Wagle) writes:
>jmd@bear.com (Josh Diamond) writes:
>
>>I always believed that a good breakfast must contain the four food groups: 
>
>>	Caffiene
>>	Salt/Preservatives
>>	Fat
>>	Sugar
>>	Carbohydrates
>
>And with a diet like this it's no wonder you can't count.
>
>The four food groups are actually Pizza, Chocolate, Ice Cream, & Barbecue.
>
>-- 
 Hmm, I thought the four food groups were:
   Caffeine
   Sugar
   Fat
   Alcohol 

 Which makes Irish Coffee the perfect food   :^)

-- mkp 

Xref: sparky soc.men:17258 soc.women:17321
From: cam@castle.ed.ac.uk (Chris Malcolm)
Newsgroups: soc.men,soc.women
Subject: Re: Female "Wiring"
Date: 2 Oct 92 19:25:40 GMT
Organization: Edinburgh University

In article <1992Sep29.155335.2585@mdcbbs.com> rivero@mdcbbs.com (Michael Rivero) writes:

>Actually, a woman's eyelids become suffused with blood after a good orgasm.

This is what happened to a friend of mine. She had got married at 16
to the first man she went out with, and she thought it was like this
for everybody.

Later, when she went to college, she started talking to some other
women about the intimate details of their sex lives. And discovered to
her horror that she had married a disgusting pervert. She left him and
got divorced. She hasn't had any trouble with her eyelids since.
-- 
Chris Malcolm    cam@uk.ac.ed.aifh          +44 (0)31 650 3085
Department of Artificial Intelligence,    Edinburgh University
5 Forrest Hill, Edinburgh, EH1 2QL, UK                DoD #205
Newsgroups: soc.men,soc.women,alt.child-support
From: allanc@cs.su.oz.au (Restless Wanderer)
Subject: Re: Another Irate Dad Kills
Reply-To: allanc@cluster.cs.su.oz (Restless Wanderer)
Organization: Basser Dept of Computer Science, University of Sydney, Australia
Date: Tue, 29 Sep 1992 06:21:22 GMT



I have a very perplexing question to pose to the readers of this group.
I do not post often,but after all the hype on father/mother bashing threads.

Why in christs'name do you guys WANT to procreate?
Guys claim they get dumped on.
Women claim they get dumped on.

Why not just do the right thing and stop this stupid reproduction nonsense.
Economically ,we'd all be better off.
Standards of living would rise  and crimes of child abuse/custody would be
solved .

I'm quite serious,I do NOT understand why anyone would want kids.
Maschismo ? Womanhood.? Sorry but it sounds like sour grapes.
All these arguements sound as if you wish to have children so that you can 
give them what YOU missed.

I don't begrudge your 'need ' to be fathers/mothers,I just cannot fathom why,
with all this hatred would someone bother.

Yes ,I do believe in Zero Population Growth.UP until the species is in  direct
danger of extintion.The lives wasted in every country because of children,is
astronomical.And I'm talking just the so called civilized countries.

I'm serious with my question,and would appreciate some honest answers.
(Sure I've had my chance at being daddy,I just realised that it was societies
expectations..NOT MINE.

                                                            
 
******************************************************************************
* Allan Creighton           "There are important matters to be resolved here *
* Dept of Computer Science   and the fear of being hanged on a democratic    *
* University of Sydney       gallows will delay me until next spring"        *
******************************************************************************
From: wrat@unisql.UUCP (wharfie)
Newsgroups: soc.men
Subject: Michal doesn't trust anybody
Date: 1 Oct 92 15:54:58 GMT
Reply-To: wrat@unisql.UUCP (wharfie)
Organization: UniSQL, Inc., Austin, Texas, USA

In article <1adhr7INN38b@gap.caltech.edu> peri@cco.caltech.edu (Michal Leah Peri) writes:
>But how can you ever be *absolutely* sure "where your partner has been"?

	I asked.  

	By the way, is "michal"  like "Mark Ethan" ?
								wr


Newsgroups: soc.men
From: Will Steeves <goid@zooid.guild.org>
Subject: Re: Sex Insurance
X-To: DUANE HENTRICH
Organization: The Zoo of Ids
Date: Wed, 16 Sep 1992 03:35:00 GMT

Duane Hentrich writes...
DH> In article <1992Sep1.020034.23991@zooid.guild.org> goid@zooid.guild.org (Wil
DH> eeves) writes:
DH> >Like me, he has been through a rough time (a different situation from mine,
DH> >mind you), and it seems that he still needs to get over his anger.  If he
DH> >"rants," which people who are very angry sometimes do, and you don't like i
DH> >you can put him in your kill file.  What he does *not* need, is to be insul
DH> >and belittled.

DH> What we do not need is to be insulted and belittled. By him or anybody.
DH> His situation does not give him the right to piss all over anyone he
DH> feels like it with impunity. His "rants" remind me of Holy Hubert on
DH> Sproul Plaza in Berkeley. High on vitriol, low on information. Vanishingly
DH> low.


I realise that....  And I realise that nobody deserves to be insulted.  But
if so, why not just *ignore* the insult, rather than insult him back?

That, of course, only invites further clashes, leading to more backlashes,
leading to more insults...

If you don't think that *he* can stop *his* insults, then maybe *we* can be
the ones who stop the fighting.

Remember, it takes two to tango.

Also note ... I am *not* defending the fact that he has sometimes insulted
people, but I really do not feel that he is doing it out of malice, or even
out of dislike for you personally.

IMHO, if he insults you, leave him alone.  You might call it "sucking out,"
but I think that there is nothing wrong with backing off from a fight.

---
Will Steeves, goid@zooid.guild.org                      "Neil Hull is GOiD"
ZOOiD BBS, Toronto, Ontario - The Zoo Of Ids            "GOiDS Rule"
(416) 322-7876
---
 * SLMR 2.1a * "I'll be Bach" -- Johann Sebastian Schwartzenegger
Xref: sparky soc.men:17109 soc.women:17194
From: ccsmh@gdr.bath.ac.uk (Mark Harding)
Newsgroups: soc.men,soc.women
Subject: Re: [Pet Peeves] What irritates you or your partner?
Date: 30 Sep 92 07:19:47 GMT
Organization: Bath University Computing Services, UK

In the referenced article, cgates@mitre.org (Curt Gates) writes:
>In article <1992Sep29.145124.19856@gdr.bath.ac.uk> ccsmh@gdr.bath.ac.uk 
>(Mark Harding) writes:
>> I have recenetly moved in with my girlfriend and have started to discover
>> that she, to me at least, seems annoyed at things I think are trivial.
>
>Clue #1:  You moved into *her* place. Comprende? 

Yeah, that thought was itching in the back of my head - but naively I thought
the situation would be give and take. Well in a way it is  - she gives
instructions, I take 'em. :( Ha ha.

Mark
-- 
+------------------------------------------------------------------------------+
|>  Mark Harding, Most excellent & triumphant programmer.  044  0225 826057   <|
+------------------------------------------------------------------------------+
Newsgroups: soc.men,alt.child-support,alt.politics.clinton
From: tal@Warren.MENTORG.COM (Tom Limoncelli)
Subject: Re: Recent Bill Clinton quote regarding child support
Organization: Mentor Graphics -- IC Group
Date: Tue, 6 Oct 1992 01:11:33 GMT

In article <1992Oct05.032425.611087@zeus.calpoly.edu> dgross@zeus.calpoly.edu (Dave Gross) writes:
>"I know how awful it is for a kid to grow up knowing that somewhere out there,
>there is some father who abandoned her or him.  I just -- it infuriates me.
>And so, do I think we ought to have a Draconian system of national child
>support enforcement?  I sure do.  I really believe that.  I do."
>
>     -- Bill Clinton, in an interview with Christopher Matthews of
>        the San Francisco Examiner.  Interview published in Image
>        magazine, a supplement of the Sunday Examiner, 10/4/92.

This is a bit out of context.

He was talking about "deadbeat dads".  He believes in going after them
to make them pay WHAT THEY HAVE BE REQUIRED TO PAY.  He isn't talking
about making them pay more, he IS talking about enforcing the rules
that exist.

Less than 30% of all alimony is ever actually paid.

When you are talking about helping children, this is something
that really needs to be done.

Tom
-- 
Tom Limoncelli -- tal@warren.mentorg.com (work) -- tal@plts.uucp (play)
"I like Bill Clinton tremendously.  I know him from the governors' conferences.
The Democrats nominated their best person, a very able fellow.  The country is
well served by that choice." -Bush's re-election chair in NJ (Thomas Kean)
Newsgroups: soc.men,soc.women,soc.singles
From: dbj@cs.washington.edu (Dave Johnson)
Subject: Re: Book Rec.: _Bodies: Overcoming the Tyranny of Perfection_
Organization: Computer Science & Engineering, U. of Washington, Seattle
Date: Tue, 6 Oct 92 18:23:56 GMT

In article <Bvoyz7.BJz@usenet.ucs.indiana.edu> kiran@bronze.ucs.indiana.edu (Kiran Wagle) writes:
>
>The four food groups are actually Pizza, Chocolate, Ice Cream, & Barbecue.

Now that's a damn fine list, but where does Beer fit in?
Is it just that Beer is an adjunct to the first and last
groups (okay, maybe the second too)?  I always thought
Beer was a complete food group unto itself.

Yes, of course I capitalized Beer--I'm not a heathen you know.
-- 
  Dave Johnson

"You're not too smart, are you?  I like that in a man."
    --Kathleen Turner in Body Heat 
Newsgroups: soc.men,alt.sex,alt.feminism
Newsgroups: soc.men
Subject: Abuse Bibliography Needed
From: rivero@mdcbbs.com
Date: 29 Sep 92 09:23:34 GMT
Organization: Electronic Data Systems, Unigraphics Division, Cypress CA
Nntp-Posting-User: rivero


  Several months ago, someone posted a wonderful article on the sexist
bias in the perception of abuse. The article contained much info on
the reailty of domestic abuse and contained an extensive bibliography.

  My copy of that file was a victim of the "great disk meltdown of 1992"
and I would like to ask someone to email a copy of at leat the
bibliography (if not the whole article) or better, to repost for the
benefit of the net.community.


Thanks




-- 
<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
|  Michael Rivero        rivero@dev8j.mdcbbs.com     "A Human's Human!"  |
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
|                       I CAME,  I SAW,  I DIVORCED                      |
<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

Newsgroups: soc.men,soc.women,soc.singles
From: mec6@quads.uchicago.edu (Rini Clarkberg)
Subject: Re: Book Rec.: _Bodies: Overcoming the Tyranny of Perfection_
Reply-To: mec6@midway.uchicago.edu
Organization: University of Chicago Computing Organizations
Date: Mon, 28 Sep 1992 18:41:16 GMT

In article <0s_p3rd.sheaffer@netcom.com> 
sheaffer@netcom.com (Robert Sheaffer) writes:
 
>I think that just about every woman wants to be with a man who is "more
>male" than she is. 

I don't.  

rini

-apparently, eligible for a freak show.

From: mikep@hpmwtd.sr.hp.com (Mike Powell)
Date: Wed, 30 Sep 1992 03:53:11 GMT
Subject: Re: Victims of False "Memories" Form Organization
Organization: HP Santa Rosa Site (SRSD MWTD)
Newsgroups: soc.men



	This all sounds similar or along the lines of something that I have
	been calling the "coveted victim status".

	Through the eighties and especially the nineties, I have noticed
	immense increases in bothe the number of people and the degre to
	which individuals offer themselves as 'victims' of one form
	or another.

	It is understood that children lacking attention will often resort
	to "bad behavior", and risk punishment, in an attempt to 
	get attention or even the center of attention.  Adults
	seeking "victim status" appear to be trying a similar tactic....

	It would seem that for some people, being seen as a victim produces
	instant sympathy and attention that they deeply feel they need.

	It used to be that individual pride prevented all but the most
	desperate people from asking for help or being seen as a
	"charity case".    Now it seems, personal pride is out.  Victimization
	is in.  Very in.   Even if it means adding drama to a minor
	event, or even creating such an event out of the blue.

	The interesting flip-side to all this are the countless people
	who seem to have a need to encourage OTHERS to see themselves as
	victims.  Witness the group that "discovered" that a large percentage
	of college women were 'raped', despite the fact that a substantial
	portion of these women felt that they had not been raped.

	Intuition tells me that these people who encourage the development
	of the "coveted victim status" are merely attempting to construct
	a base of support for their own personal views, which allow them
	to feel that they are actually doing something constructive for
	the "poor victims" of __name_your_favorite_crime_here__.  It allows
	them to feel like the voice of sanity, and that they have a
	purpose.  This type of person seems seek positions of power and
	athority in a given area...  examples would be social work,
	(especially CPS positions), mental health professions, and
	"grass-roots" organizers of certain social action groups.

	These people seem pre-disposed to see 'victims' all around them.
	And to add support to their delusions, they will often find
	'victimizers' or 'perpetrators' just to complete the picture,
	and to create a symbol of 'evil' that they can focus on.
	 
	This seems to be the latest and most ugly American pastime....

	"Prefessional victims", or "How to tell sad tales for fun and
	profit...."

	Makes me want to hurl.

	-Mike-

Newsgroups: soc.men,soc.women,talk.religion.misc,uk.misc
From: simon@cs.city.ac.uk (Simon Brock-Gunn)
Subject: I.T. aspects of religion and gender in teaching
Keywords: Religious Education, Information Technology, Equal Opportunities
Organization: City University, London
Date: Wed, 30 Sep 92 09:38:25 GMT

The following is a message forwarded from someone who does not have net
access.  All replies to this posting will be forwarded to him.

---------- begin forwarded message ----------

I am currently working on a thesis as part of my M.A. on "Information
Technology and Religious Studies".  I am hoping to look at:

+  the various ways I.T. can be used in the teaching of the subject

+  using appropriate software and listing opinions of users

+  a short study of I.T. and Equal Opportunities, with relation to gender.

If anyone has any ideas on how to use I.T. in the teaching of R.S. to 
secondary school pupils (age 12-16), especially on a Nimbus network,
has heard of any appropriate software or software houses or, most
importantly, knows of any suitable books/periodicals, I would be really
grateful to hear from you.

Andrew Underwood
Kings College, London

---------- end forwarded message ----------

==============================================================================
|| Simon A. Brock-Gunn | Computer Science Dept. | You can't have everything ||
|| simon@cs.city.ac.uk | City University, Nort- | - where would you put it? ||
|| Tel +44 71 477 8000 | hampton Square, London |---------------------------||
|| Fax +44 71 477 8587 | EC1V 0HB, England, UK. |   (THIS SPACE FOR RENT)   ||
==============================================================================
Newsgroups: soc.men,soc.women
From: ecsd@tfs.com (Eric C. S. Dynamic)
Subject: Why Children
Organization: TRW Financial Systems
Date: Wed, 30 Sep 1992 12:34:37 GMT

allanc@cluster.cs.su.oz (Restless Wanderer) writes:
>
>I'm quite serious,I do NOT understand why anyone would want kids.
>Maschismo ? Womanhood.? Sorry but it sounds like sour grapes.
>All these arguements sound as if you wish to have children so that you can 
>give them what YOU missed.
>
>I don't begrudge your 'need ' to be fathers/mothers,I just cannot fathom why,
>with all this hatred would someone bother.

It's the species' instinctive wisdom. Now that I have increasing feelings
of wanting to be a father, I understand it very well: it is a gift of love
and continuity. There could not be humans to try harder and try longer any
other way. And I have loved to be alive and be aware, and life is enjoyable,
even with so much pain in it. It will teach me myself again to experience
the beingness of a child, and *I* will want to see that I can give them the
benefits of my wisdom to enable them to have happier and more aware lives.
It's a very deep aspect of the human psyche to want to see completion in the
cycle of being. Men are no less affected by this than women.

-ecsd
Newsgroups: soc.men,alt.sex,alt.feminism
From: ericbr@microsoft.com (Eric Brown)
Subject: Re: Choice for men: moving beyond anti-feminism
Date: 03 Oct 92 23:38:31 GMT
Organization: Microsoft Corporation

In article <BvHIuB.Gvs@unix.amherst.edu> twpierce@unix.amherst.edu (Tim Pierce) writes:
>In article <1992Oct01.180407.21154@microsoft.com> ericbr@microsoft.com (Eric Brown) writes:
>>One _small_ query, though -- what percentage of women taking the Pill have
>>strokes?
>
>What percentage of men taking the male pill would become irreversably
>sterile?

For gossypol (the only real male Pill that I've heard of), the number was
around 10%.  There may be others -- I've _tried_ and _tried_ to get people to
name actual drugs that are roughly as safe as the female Pill, but nobody's
bothered to name one.

Eric

Newsgroups: soc.men,soc.women,soc.singles
From: lew@cbnewsd.cb.att.com (lewis.h.mammel..jr)
Subject: Re: Book Rec.: _Bodies: Overcoming the Tyranny of Perfection_
Organization: AT&T
Date: Thu, 1 Oct 1992 03:17:03 GMT
Followup-To: soc.men
Summary: gender mixing

In article <1992Sep28.035904.21232@cs.ucla.edu>, coleman@rocky.cs.ucla.edu (Mike Coleman) writes:
> If we divide men and women into four groups, like so:
> 
> 	A.  "male" men
> 	B.  "male" women
> 	C.  "female" men
> 	D.  "female" women
> 
> I see a preference relation like so (where 'A -> B' means
> "individuals in A will tend to prefer individuals in B over
> the alternative, all things being equal"):
> 
> 	A -> D
> 	B -> A
> 	C -> B
> 	D -> A
> 
> based upon Glassner's passage and my own experiences.  Some
> ramifications:
> 
> 1.  Male men have it made, as all women prefer them.
> 2.  Conversely, female men are screwed.
> 3.  Female women are in pretty good shape, as those they're
> drawn to are likely to be attracted to them as well.
> 4.  Male women are in an ironic position since those they're
> drawn to aren't likely to be attracted to them, and they
> themselves are not attracted to the men drawn to them.  They
> do have adherents, though, which puts them in better shape
> than female men.

This is a fascinating sort of exercise, which I have indulged
in myself. A couple of comments:

1) Read Plato's Symposium. It has a little speech by Aristophanes
along these lines. In it, men and women are said to be derived
from doubled humans of the types MM, MW ( same as WM ), and WW.
derivatives of each of these are, respectively, homosexual men,
heterosexuals, and homosexual women.


2) This leads to the second point: that you left out homosexuality.
( well though, you did say "female men are screwed" ! )
It's also interesting that you chose "men" and "women" for the
biological designation, and "male" and "female" for the psychological.
One might have expected "feminine" and "masculine" "males" and "females".

3) My idea ( which took a little exertion to recall ) was that
sexuality was ranged along a spectrum from ultra maleness to
ultra femaleness, with liasons arranged as follows:


	M++    M      M--     F--    F      F++

	^      ^      ^       ^      ^      ^
        |______|______|       |______|______|
               |_____________________|


The idea being that you need some "differance", but not too
much. It doesn't really work, obviously, but there it is.


Lew Mammel, Jr.
From: wrat@unisql.UUCP (wharfie)
Newsgroups: soc.men
Subject: My generation
Summary: Out here in the fields...
Date: 28 Sep 92 13:02:45 GMT
Reply-To: wrat@unisql.UUCP (wharfie)
Organization: UniSQL, Inc., Austin, Texas, USA

In article <717531843@lear.cs.duke.edu> gazit@cs.duke.edu (Hillel) writes:
>The generation of people who were young in the 60's, had the big
>dreams about changing the world, had the big opportunity to do 
>that and *missed* it.   

	Grrrrr.  Listen, pal, we did the best we could.  Lots of good stuff
got done.  If you don't like the way the world is get off your butt and go
do something about it instead of spending your time bitching about those
awful feminists on Usenet.

>war.  The kids had the right vision, but they made no real effort
>to explain their position to a large number of middle America voters -
>the kids demonstrated in the street, and the majority elected Nixon.

	Uhhh, excuse me?  Nixon was forced to end the war precisely because
of overwhelming popular pressure.  Towards the end Mr. and Mrs. Middle America
were fer shure out in the streets with the rest.  




From: erik@hpfcso.FC.HP.COM (Erik Lode)
Date: Wed, 30 Sep 1992 18:38:28 GMT
Subject: Re: Male Bashers
Organization: Hewlett-Packard, Fort Collins, CO, USA
Newsgroups: soc.men

erik@hpfcso.FC.HP.COM (Erik Lode) writes:

> You can expect to hear from her lawyer any day now.

rivero@mdcbbs.com writes:

>   No I won't. My ex's lawyer didn't leave enough financial meat on
> my carcass to make it worthwhile!
> 
>   Just out of curiosity, on what grounds?

  What, a person needs grounds to sue?  When did that happen?  All she
has to do is convince the court that she was injured, blame you, and
presto!  (After all, you're just a mean man, and she's a poor, helpless
woman.  Besides, there probably wasn't even a warning label on the gun.)

Newsgroups: soc.men,alt.sex,alt.feminism
From: gmeltzne@jarthur.claremont.edu (Manu)
Subject: Re: Choice for men: moving beyond anti-feminism
Organization: Harvey Mudd College, Claremont, CA 91711
Date: Thu, 1 Oct 1992 19:56:44 GMT

In article <sem_QgO00YV9M4zfEh@andrew.cmu.edu> rs87+@andrew.cmu.edu (Rebecca Ann Stallings) writes:
>>>Whether you call it sexist or not, the
>>>pharmaceutical companies are working harder to get it 'just right' for men
>>>than they ever did for women.
>> 
>>Last month feminists blamed the pharmaceutical companies for not
>>working hard enough on a male pill and called them sexist; now 
>>you give the opposite claim.  Can't you keep your story straight?
>   That's not the point the first poster was trying to make.  In the
>1960s, pharmaceutical companies went ahead and released the Pill even
>though it was rather dangerous.  They've made modifications since, but
>some brands and formulations still have serious side effects.  By
>contrast, it seems that companies are unwilling to release a male pill
>until it's absolutely perfect, not wanting to inconvenience or endanger
>men.
>        ---'Becca at Carnegie Mellon

	Did you ever think that drug companies are being more careful, 
	because nowadays its in style to sue if the drugs cause some
	serious side effects.  Hopefully, drug companies have learned to
	be more careful than they were in the '60s.

	Manu
-- 
Email: gmeltzne@jarthur.claremont.edu            

"The Arab governments were largely responsible for the ruin of the Palestinian
  Arabs"     -Sir John Bagot Glubb
Newsgroups: soc.men,alt.sex,alt.feminism