HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: dlc@aero.org (Kilroy)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Lindell/Powers Gun Retention System Info Wanted
Date: 23 Jul 92 21:03:10 GMT
Organization: Department of Redundancy Department

How does one find qualified instruction in the Lindell/Powers gun
retention/disarming system? (Through the NRA?) Also, I was wondering
if there are any good books/videos to supplement the instruction.

Thanks,
Dan
From: howardjg@nextwork.rose-hulman.edu (John G Howard)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: $5000 Shopping Spree
Date: 22 Jul 92 02:58:11 GMT
Organization: Rose-Hulman Institute of Technology


In article <9207211127.AA12411@mimsy.cs.UMD.EDU> C08926RC@WUVMD.Wustl.Edu  
(Rob) writes:
# Guns magazine is currently running a contest in which the grand prize
# is a $5000 firearms shopping spree.  I thought this would be an  
interesting
# subject here.
# 
# If you had $5000 to spend on firearms and/or accessories, what would
# you buy?
# 
# Rob

	Rob,

		How about a (one) .50 cal target rifle??
		I hear that shooting thru trees is fun...

		LaTer DaZe,	
			JGH
			John G. Howard
			NeXt E-Mail: 
				howardjg@nextwork.rose-hulman.edu
			Aeronautical Engineering student at Rose-Hulman  
Institute of Technology, Terre Haute, IN
			Member Rose-Hulman Rifle Team (Small Bore and Air)
From: dingbat@cix.compulink.co.uk (Codesmiths)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: Airweapons
Date: 30 Jul 92 14:36:23 GMT



# BSA makes a fixed barrel rifle with a separate under barrel cocking lever.
# Airsporter S I think; the catalog is not handy. Has anybody used this model,
# or compared it with a side lever (like a model 48 or 52 Dianna) for field use?


The Airsporter is the old BSA underlever (the S is the same, with a
walnut stock instead of beech). It's quite an old design, on about Mk
5 of the various models, and seems to be obsolete as a new gun these
days. It's been superceded by the more recent Superstar underlever
design which is also an underlever, but has better scope mounts, a
better trigger & retains accuracy better with age. As it only costs
slightly more on the RRP, and the discounters do it for even less, it
seems to have wiped the Airsporter out. The Goldstar is much the same
rifle, but has a 10 shot self-loading rotary magazine.

I prefer pre-charged rifles for field use, but for a spring gun I'd
rather have an underlever than a sidelever. There is no significant
mechanical advantage to either of them, but I find the underlever
action easier to handle in a confined space (like halfway up a tree).

I like the Webley Eclipse as a spring gun. Underlever action, broadly
similar to the Superstar, but I much prefer the loading system. A
great big release lever lets a short breech block flip up, and the
pellet practically falls into a vertical chamber. Dead easy to work
with gloves or cold fingers.

If you want a top quality underlever vermin rifle, the Theoben SLR88
is about the best, but it's 3 times the price of the Superstar. What
you get for the money is a shorter & lighter rifle, with a tiny (8")
barrel and a damn great silencer. 7 shot auto-load magazine, and the
Theoben gas ram system means near recoilless operation.

I can't say I like the standard "Theoben house style" stock on this
rifle. It's a target rifle style, with a near vertical handgrip & a
large cheekpiece. Fine on a range, but wandering around a field I
find it difficult to bring this sort of stock up to the shoulder
quickly. Perhaps I'm just too used to handling shotguns instead of
rifles ?

          Andy Dingley    dingbat@cix.compulink.co.uk
From: C08926RC@WUVMD.Wustl.Edu (Rob)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: RE: $5000 Shopping Spree
Date: 22 Jul 92 11:41:20 GMT

Hmmm, I posted the question without saying what I would buy.  Let's see...

A SIG P210 would be nice...
I always wanted a 1941 Johnson...perhaps from Mil-Tech....
The Beretta A390 semi-auto shotgun looks good...
One of those Seecamp .32s...
Let's see, I'll need a deer rifle.  I like the Browning BAR...or the A-Bolt
Stainless Stalker (do they make that for lefties?)...
Ammo, reloading gear and decent muffs for all of the above...

I could go on, but I'd exceed the $5000 limit - if I haven't already.


Rob
C08926RC@WUVMD
From: jca@crash.cts.com (John C. Archambeau)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: Georgia - Land of Paradise for Progunners???
Date: 29 Jul 92 11:52:02 GMT
Organization: CTS Network Services (crash, ctsnet), El Cajon, CA

In article <1992Jul27.013407.26236@massey.ac.nz> C.T.Teo@massey.ac.nz (C.T. Teo) writes:
#Re: Georgia - Land of Paradise for Pro-gunners???
#
#Our local TV Frontline programme shown a few minutes clip on firearms ownership
#in the State of Georgia, USA. Beside showing the residents (young and old)
#carrying firearms in the open, it was said that the crime rates are
#comparatively low and that (listen to this) it is MANDATORY for household to
#possess firearm(s)!!! It this true???

No, there's one small town in Georgia where that is the case.  The
police chief or local sheriff went to the city council with this and
they passed a town ordinance requiring that every household have one
loaded firearm unless there was some factor prohibiting that such as
religion or mental incompetancy.  Basically, if you could legally buy a
gun and owned one, you were expected to keep at least one of them loaded
in your place of residence.  I admire the law enforcement official
even if it was a small town who came up with that idea.  It shows that
there's some common sense in the world.

The larger cities are not the case.  In fact, I have heard on the net 
from some problems with a police chief who has imposed the policy of
arresting and charging citizens with valid CCW permits for illegal 
carry of a firearm.

As for open carry, there are many open carry states in the US.  Whether
or not you see it is dependant upon whether or not the residents of the
locale choose the exercise that right or not.  Nevada is an open carry
state, yet I only saw one person carry a firearm openly last time I was
in Las Vegas who wasn't a uniformed law enforcement officer or security
guard.  He was riding a motorcycle and was carrying a pistol (probably
a SIG-Sauer, I couldn't tell for sure) in a Galco shoulder holster.  He
was going into a gun store that my roommate and I were in.

I did know before hand that Nevada is an open carry state, but it's
still strange to me people carrying openly because I was born and raised
in the People's Republik of Kalifornia.
--

     // JCA

 /*
 ** ARPA    : jadpc!thewall!jca@nosc.mil | 13 + 1 = 228... 
 ** INTERNET: jca@thewall.cts.com        |
 **           jca@thewall.uucp           |           SIG-Sauer P228...
 ** UUCP    : nosc!jadpc!thewall!jca     |
 */
From: J.M.Spencer@newcastle.ac.uk (Jonathan Spencer)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: British gun laws circa 1960
Date: 22 Jul 92 11:41:15 GMT
Organization: University of Newcastle upon Tyne, UK, NE1 7RU

prichard@devon.larc.nasa.gov writes:

#not a t.p.g. question, but an informational one;

#I have a book by an English dude who sailed around the world sometime
                             ^^^^
#around 1960.  at one point, he mentions checking his Webley .45 since
#the upcoming port had a bad reputation.

He cannot have been both English AND a dude :-)

#1) would this handgun (presumably a revolver) been legal to posess in
#   the British isles, and

That was prior to the current Acts. But even today, yes, they can be
held under suitable licence. But, I'm pretty sure that exceptions exist
for firearms are part of a ship's equipment (retain a mutiny?) and
licences are not required.

#2) might this an American cartridge such as .45 Colt or .45 ACP?  .45
#   seems a bit big for an old British revolver.

Can't answer this one.


--Jonathan
From: dingbat@cix.compulink.co.uk (Codesmiths)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: Hollowpoints illegal in N.J. ?
Date: 25 Jul 92 13:12:13 GMT



# In article <18982@smoke.brl.mil>, gwyn@smoke.brl.mil (Doug Gwyn) writes...
# # 
# #Since a responsible defensive user of a handgun would select hollow-point
# #bullets as the most appropriate choice for the intended purpose, one has
# #to wonder what the lay public's perception of hollow-points is.


In the UK, I would suggest that the first reaction of nearly
everyone, from "the man on the street" to Chief Constables would be
"Whats a hollowpoint bullet ?"

Rephrase it as "Dum Dum bullet", and the unanimous response would b
ethat they're illegal, immoral, probably fattening (8-) ), and mere
posession of such a device is evidence that you're either an
evil murderous psychopath, or a fanatical terrorist.

(All IMHO, but I don't think many will contradict me)

          Andy Dingley    dingbat@cix.compulink.co.uk
From: callison@uokmax.ecn.uoknor.edu (James P. Callison)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: Sig P220 vs. Glock 21
Date: 23 Jul 92 23:51:34 GMT
Organization: Engineering Computer Network, University of Oklahoma, Norman, OK, USA

In article <fQcucbF@quack.sac.ca.us> bweaver@quack.sac.ca.us (Brian Weaver) writes:
#callison@uokmax.ecn.uoknor.edu (James P. Callison) writes:
#
##far less critical of what you feed it than any other auto (including the
##Glock, from what I've read and heard--my personal experience with a Glock
##was that it jammed something awful, but I'm willing to attribute that to
##its being a dirty range gun. Never mind the fact that the range SIG P226
##was in similar shape, and didn't fail once... ;-) And personally, I prefer
##the hammer and being able to choose between SA and DA. And the ergonomics
##of the SIG...the Glock, fine a pistol as it is (yes, I said it was a fine
##pistol) just cannot compare to the ergonomics of the SIG. It also can't
##compare in the accuracy catagory...
#
#
# I dont agree with your last sentence. The glock is damn accurate. 
# At least I can get under 2 inch groups at 25 yards with the Glock
# 22 in .40 S&W. Thats pretty accurate to me. 

It's your right to disagree. It's also your right to be wrong.
SIGs are sighted in at the factory at 15m with groups on the order of
1-1.5 in., and they come with the factory sight-in target to
prove it. SIGs are widely regarded as the most accurate straight-from-the-
factory combat pistols around. And they _are_ significantly more accurate
than Glocks. HOWEVER, I am talking inherent accuracy; the skill of the
shooter can more than make up for the accuracy of the gun (in most instances).
(IMHO's as necessary.)

				James

James P. Callison       Microcomputer Coordinator        OU Law Library 
Callison@aardvark.ucs.uoknor.edu   /\        Callison@uokmax.ecn.uoknor
	constellation!biglaw!callison@mailhost.ecn.uoknor.edu
DISCLAIMER: I'm not an engineer, but I play one at work...
	Lawyers get you out'n the kind of trouble you'd never get in 
		if there was no lawyers. -- Cowboy logic
From: saksa@col.hp.com (Tom Saksa)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Another M1 Garand Question.
Date: 27 Jul 92 13:52:48 GMT

After refinishing the stock on my M1 it came time to put it
back together and try it out.  While re-assembling it though, I
noticed some interesting markings.  The barrel has a large P M
stamped just after what looks like a serial number.  Does anyone
know what P M might stand for?  

One reason I ask is that the stock also has a P stamped into the
bottom of the palm swell.  A friend of mine with another DCM
M1 Garand has no stamp on the stock at all.  It may not be
important but I would like to know. 

By the way, do not ask how it shoots.  I was rained out and will
not get another chance to try it for a few weeks.  It really
looks great though!
From: hooools@well.sf.ca.us (Paul Theodoropoulos)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: Sig P220 vs. Glock 21
Date: 31 Jul 92 12:57:54 GMT
Organization: Whole Earth 'Lectronic Link

In <19008@smoke.brl.mil> gwyn@smoke.brl.mil (Doug Gwyn) writes:
#In article <9207240129.AA08891@news.cis.ohio-state.edu> rane+@CS.CMU.EDU (Aaron Hughes) writes:
##Perhaps you could explain further.

#Ok, I thought it was obvious from previous discussions --
#Some people at times have concern about a gun grabber or perhaps
#a stupid visitor lifting the gun and putting his finger on the trigger.
#With a loaded Glock, BANG!  With many other weapons in some conditions,
#CLICK!  Sometimes that might be worth worrying about.

yeah, i'd worry about any idiot who leaves his loaded guns accessible
to guests.
From: lentz@gandalf.ca (Jim Lentz (Wheeling Tech Support))
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: Ricochets (was: Shooting in Dumps)
Date: 29 Jul 92 15:00:46 GMT
Organization: Gandalf Data Ltd.

In <1992Jul28.155845.7625@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu> dbetz@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (Drew Betz) writes:

#In article <9207280457.AA14473@hpfcso.HP.COM> post@hpfcso.fc.hp.com (David Post) writes:
##My goodness!  What airport was that?  I accidently went through the
##detectors at the Denver airport with several fired 9mm cases.  The guy first

#I recently took a trip and I always take my keys out of my pockets
#(I seem to have a real pile of keys for some reason).  Anyhow, it
#turns out that I've got a 9mm JHP bullet keychain.  Its an inert
#9mm round where the primer's been removed and a chain is attached
#so you can carry it on your keychain.  I completely forgot about it
#until I got to the security point, and then I figured I was going
#to have to explain.  But they ran it through the x-ray machine and
#didn't say anything.

#Drew
#--
#drew betz : wj8k : dbetz@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu   
#"Our campaign is the opposite of 'competence.'"
#- Clinton aide Eli Segal, quoted in the 7/22/92 _Wall Street Journal_ 

 A couple of months ago I took a short trip to Indiana. I had a similar keychain
except it is a .45-70 (a little bigger than a 9mm). When I got to the security
at Midway airport (in Chicago) they took one look at that keychain and said I'd
have to check it as baggage. They gave me this huge box to put it in and had to check
it as baggage. It was the only baggage I had. Since then I either put the keychain
in my bags or leave it at home. I guess they must think the chain could be some
kind of trigger for the bullet ;^). Anyone want to try and fire a .45-70 that way?
 
--
                                       OOoo^ ^^                                    
                                             ||           Jim Lentz                         
                           [__]_[__]_+--+_[____]>      lentz@gandalf.ca             
                            00   00   00   0  0
From: sybok@athena.mit.edu (The Rifleman)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: What is Bore/Gauge ???
Date: 22 Jul 92 11:40:56 GMT
Organization: Massachusetts Institute of Technology

In article <1992Jul22.023238.4603@uniwa.uwa.edu.au> gunter@tartarus.uwa.edu.au (Gunter Ahrendt) writes:
#Maybe an obvious answer for the experts, but not for a novice...
#
#What exactly is 16 Gauge in inches or cm diameter?
#Better still if you could tell me the formula to work it out?
#
An N-gauge bore is exactly the width required so that N balls of that width,
taken together, weigh one pound.  So, for a 16 gauge, each ball must weigh
one ounce, or about 28 grams.  The density of lead, I think, is about 12 
grams/cc, so that the volume of the required ball is 2.3 cm.  This
translates into a required spherical radius of .325 inch, or a *bore* of .65
inch.
From: megatek!cjp@uunet.UU.NET (Chris "Systems Stud" Pikus)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: HELP! Need FFL holder in So. Carolina
Date: 30 Jul 92 14:37:24 GMT
Organization: Megatek Corporation, San Diego, California


	My brother [a resident of S. Carolina] wishes to purchase
a handun from a person who holds a Florida FFL. He needs someone
from SC who holds an FFL to do the 4473 transfer for him. None
of the gunshops that he called are willing to do this. (They seem
to only be interested in retail sales.)

	If anyone in the North Charleston area is willing to
do the transfer (for your usual fee of course), please contact
me via email (uunet!megatek!cjp) or my work phone [(619) 455-5590].

	Or you can contact him directly: David Pikus (803) 552-7459.


				Thank you,
				Chris Pikus

-- 
Christopher J. Pikus,        | "Yeah, there's such a fine line
Megatek Corp., San Diego, CA | between stupid and clever."
INTERNET: cjp@megatek.com    | 		-- "This is Spinal Tap"
From: FRAMPTON@skitzo.dseg.ti.com
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: .17 Rem
Date: 23 Jul 92 18:37:18 GMT


In article <4165.78.uupcb@cutting.hou.tx.us>, jim.wray@cutting.hou.tx.us (Jim Wray) writes:
# I'm getting interested in .17 Rem, both from target shooting and varmit
# shooting perspectives. Does anybody out there in gun-net-land have any
# first hand experience with this caliber that they would like to share?

I put a similar post up about a year ago.  The responses I got was that
the .17 rem is very tempermental (hard to work a load up for). It is
difficult to keep the bullet together in flight.  There is no case life.
Components are not rare but not popular either.

I was told that anything in .22n is a more practical choice and much more
accurate prone.

If you are looking for something exotic and you like to fiddle with 
something for long durations the .17 may be ok for you.
_____________________________________________________________________________
mark frampton (RM)             |  "Friends don't let friends ride S****i."
frampton@skitzo.dseg.ti.com    |  "Life is short, ride hard."
                               |  "Born and Bred to Rip and Shred."
From: cbl@uihepa.hep.uiuc.edu (Chris Luchini)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: SPRINGFIELD REVISITED
Date: 31 Jul 92 12:57:28 GMT
Organization: High Energy Physics, University of Illinois, Urbana-Champaign

Hi all,

 I posted a few days ago that Springfield was going to trade
me a Factory Comp 1911 in 45 or 38super for a defective gun
I have. I talked to them today, and they said they will trade
me _anything_ they carry that has about the same value as 
the gun I'm sending back: that's about $1100-1200 list,
about $800 if you look at 100% Blue Book price. 

So, the up shot is, if you were planning on buying any springfield
products any time soon, look it up in blue book, and then make
me an offer of how much you'll pay for the gun. For instance,
the Factory Comp 1911's go for about $700-750 (depending on the caliber
from basement FFL's, if I get you the gun, I'd want $650-$700 
or so. They have Factory Comped P9's also that look good, 
Wadcutter guns, etc, throw in a little cash, and I could probably get
a M1A. . . 


-Chris L
*1110 W. Green/Urbana IL 61801/217-333-0505/cbl@uihepa.hep.uiuc.edu 
* Remember, only mere mortals need sleep!
From: semra@ralph.arc.nasa.gov (Donald K. George)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Cracking of Para-Ordinance Aluminum Frames
Date: 29 Jul 92 15:00:23 GMT
Organization: NASA Ames Res. Ctr. Mtn Vw CA 94035

Hello, 
My name is Don George. This to avoid the confusion caused by the news header
fields.  This is my first post to rec.guns.  My friend has recently put 
together a Para-Ordinance 14 round .45.  Quality components, to skimping here.
Shot beautifully for a short period of time.  It seems that the frame has
developed a crack large enough to cause the hammer to fail to drop completely.
I think he's only put about 300 rounds through it.  Standard ammo, nothing
exotic, no +P, etc.  Has anyone else experienced similar problems with the
Aluminum frame (or any Para frame for that matter)?  Please email responses,
as I'm not always able to keep up with the news and might miss a posted 
article.  Please mention my name in the email response as this is a borrowed
account.  I will post a summary if responses warrant.

						Thanks in advance,
						Donald k. George
From: tjohnson@xenon.stanford.edu (Ted C. Johnson)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: revolver handling
Date: 27 Jul 92 21:36:52 GMT
Organization: Computer Science Department, Stanford University.


Is it necessary/advisable to keep an empty chamber under the hammer
for modern revolvers (e.g., Ruger GP-100)?  Or is this just something
that was required "in the old days", before revolvers were designed
better?

BTW, I assume that reason for doing this was because older revolvers (unlike
SIG's and other modern weapons) lacked a firing pin block, so that if you
dropped the gun and it hit the ground hammer-first, it could accidentally
discharge...?

Thanks.

-Ted
From: syoung@pecanpi.UUCP (Stan Young)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: $5000 Shopping Spree
Date: 23 Jul 92 14:29:38 GMT
Organization: Pecan Pi, Doraville, Georgia


In article <1992Jul21.171200.144@henson.cc.wwu.edu> n9020351@henson.cc.wwu.edu (James Douglas Del-Vecchio) writes:
#C08926RC@WUVMD.Wustl.Edu (Rob) writes:
#
##Guns magazine is currently running a contest in which the grand prize
##is a $5000 firearms shopping spree.  I thought this would be an interesting
##subject here.
#
##If you had $5000 to spend on firearms and/or accessories, what would
##you buy?
#
<Jim's selections deleted for space.
#
#At this point I'm sure I would be sick of guns entirely, give them
#all to the salvation army, etc.		;-)
            ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Hmm, there was a discussion over in sci.military recently regarding how
many armed forces there were in the US; I'm pretty sure that the salvation
army wasn't one of them. ;-) ;-)

Of course, if we keep developing strategic systems in a tactical world,
they may be as effective a force as we've got! :-(



-- 
Stan Young                                {emory, slammer}!pecanpi!syoung
From: gt9989a@prism.gatech.edu (John Martin Chapman)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: Georgia - Land of Paradise for Progunners???
Date: 27 Jul 92 21:37:00 GMT
Organization: Georgia Institute of Technology


I go to school in Geaorgia (Ga. Tech) and it is of course against school policy to carry weapons on campus, so I have seen no one carrying a gun openly there.  I haven't, though, ever seen anyone but law enforcement agents carrying anything more than mace.  I'm not versed enough in the law to tell you how much of that documentary was fact, but I'm fairly sure that Georgians can own automatic weapons.

John 
-- 
John Martin Chapman
Georgia Institute of Technology, Atlanta Georgia, 30332
uucp:	  ...!{decvax,hplabs,ncar,purdue,rutgers}!gatech!prism!gt9989a
Internet: gt9989a@prism.gatech.edu
From: osan@cbnewsb.cb.att.com (Mr. X)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: Beretta 92F vs. Sig P228
Date: 30 Jul 92 20:10:06 GMT
Organization: Twilight Zone

In article <9207282316.AA23403@dog.ee.lbl.gov> etjue@lbl.gov (Eric T. Jue) writes:
#I am considering purchasing either the Beretta 92F or the Sig P228.  I
#prefer the Sig but can't decide because of price differences.  The best
#prices I could find is $489 for the 92F and $549 for the P228.  Are these
#prices really good?  What are your opinions concerning these guns?  I
#appreciate any responses my posting.  Thank you very much.
#
	Get the SIG.

	-Andy V.