HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: jmars@mta.ca (Jennifer K. Mars)
Subject: Bronze-gold same sex pairings.
Reply-To: jmars@mta.ca
Organization: Mount Allison U, Sackville, N.B. Canada 
Date: Fri, 18 Dec 1992 18:50:12 GMT

Dragonsdawn provides a lot of evidence relating to this argument.

[Page references from the NA paperback]

[Bay speaking] "'Ah, another gold female. I believe that Kitti Ping
made the choices gender imperative.'"(268)

Well, that would seem to indicate that blues and browns wouldn't
Impress to females. However, continuing on...

"'Do they always go female to female?' Emily asked Pol. 'And male
to male?'
 'Since the males are expected to be fighters and the females egg-
carriers, Kitti made it logical'
 'Logical to her,' Emily said, a trifle bemused. 'There aren't any
blues or greens among them,' she suddenly realized.
 'Kitti programmed the heavier males, but I believe they're to
carry sperm for the entire range.'"(269)

Now, my own interpretation of this is: Kitti Ping concentrated
her manipulations on the bronzes and golds. There were also
browns produced, so they're slightly more nebulous territory, but
it seems to me that you could argue that she didn't bother to
introduce the gender imperative into the 'lower' colours, perhaps
even anticipating that there would be female riders whose temperments
(such as Mirrim) would be more suited to the fighting dragons.
On PernMUSH, if I remember correctly, we do not allow that browns
produce gold eggs, which would mean they aren't included in Pol's
'heavier males' statement.  Certainly one could argue ther reverse,
and I'm sure this newsgroup will see such arguments, but it makes
sense to me that Kitti would only introduce a gender imperative
where she thought it was really necessary - and that would be with
the most maternal dragons - the golds - and the leadership dragons -
the bronzes.

Adopting this interpretation works especially well for a MUSH where
we generally accept that women have a leadership potential equal
to that of men.  There are 2 x (number of Weyrs) 'top' leadership
positions on a MUSH for riders; why not split them equally 
male/female? Insuring that each Weyr has one of each sex would ideally
mean that each Weyr would have both the feminine and masculine
points of view represented. As for allowing the other colors to
Impress where they may, it also preserves our basically-Western
view that woman should be accorded equal opportunity to hold
positions such as Wingsecond, Weyrsecond, etc.  It increases playability
while still preserving some kind of sense of following the rules
of the world that McCaffrey has laid out.

-Shandra.

"If I highlighted everything that was important the whole book would
be yellow! Of course... my highlighter is orange..."
Newsgroups: alt.fan.pern
From: jmars@mta.ca (Jennifer K. Mars)
Subject: FSP
Reply-To: jmars@mta.ca
Organization: Mount Allison U, Sackville, N.B. Canada 
Date: Fri, 18 Dec 1992 18:04:49 GMT

BTW, in Killashandra the ship they take to Lars's trial is a brain ship.

-Shandra.
Newsgroups: alt.fan.pern
Subject: Re: Most bizarre cross posting ever. 
Distribution: world
Organization: Keristor Systems
X-Mailer: Simple NEWS 1.90 (ka9q DIS 1.19)
Date: Thu, 17 Dec 1992 20:31:23 +0000

                    * THIS IS NOT A FLAME *

In article <1992Dec16.004646.13182@jupiter.sun.csd.unb.ca>
            twilkinson@mta.ca writes:

> [stuff about cross-universe links not being a good idea deleted]

I'm disagreeing politely, while respecting your right to your opinion.

I agree that doing stuff which crosses universes is not usually very
productive.  However, what we've been discussing is whether Pern is in
the *same* universe as other series by Anne McCaffrey.  There is a body
of evidence to suggest that there *is* a connection - paricularly the
names of the organisations - and very little evidence that they are
seperate.  Remember that in the introductions to the Pern books it
states clearly that it is set in an SF universe, *not* some mediaeval or
fantasy alternate.

Having decided tentatively that Pern, the Planet Pirates series, Crystal
Singer, and the Brain / Brawn ships are all in the same universe, we
have since been discussing how they might fit together into a timeline.

This exercise is *not* the same as combining two or more totally
unrelated series - SW, ST, etc. do not exist in Anne's books...

***********************************************************************
*  chris@keris.demon.co.uk      *                                     *
*  chriscr@cix.compulink.co.uk  *  FIAWOL (Filking Is A Way Of Life)  *
*  100014.3217@compuserve.com   *                                     *
***********************************************************************
From: jmm25@po.CWRU.Edu (Jessica M. Mcgeary)
Newsgroups: alt.fan.pern
Subject: Re: Dragon names
Date: 15 Dec 1992 00:39:29 GMT
Organization: Case Western Reserve University, Cleveland, Ohio (USA)
NNTP-Posting-Host: thor.ins.cwru.edu


>From: scarrobi@shearson.com (Steve Carrobis)
>>Subject: Re: Dragon names
>
>u missed one.
>Darth - the dragon of the Darkside.

   Sith would also qualify- good ol' Vader was Dark Lord of the Sith.

   Very suntanned Weyrleaders, perhaps? Dark L'rod, rider of Sith? 
Dunno...
-- 
Currently on cold medication;  | It matters not how strait the gate
please excuse if this sounds   | How charged with punishments the scroll
just a wee bit pompous.        | I am the master of my fate
-jmm25@po.cwru.edu	       | I am the captain of my soul.
Newsgroups: alt.fan.pern
From: chris@keris.demon.co.uk (Chris Croughton)
Subject: Re: Dragon rider names 
Distribution: world
Organization: Keristor Systems
X-Mailer: Simple NEWS 1.90c (ka9q DIS 1.18, CC 1.18c)
Date: Sat, 12 Dec 1992 10:36:26 +0000


In article <katherim.723960456@sfu.ca> katherim@fraser.sfu.ca writes:

>Can anyone elaborate on the names of dragon riders?  Is the apostrophization
>honorary or not?  I seem to remember Kylara naming her new baby (the one
>Lessa thought was F'lar's) with an apostraphy right away.  I am assuming
>that a newborn could not have impressed yet.  Perhaps it was just Kylara...

Do you want the real answer, or the IC (in character) one?

The mundane answer is that it's another of Anne's mistakes, like the
colour of Lytol's dragon changing from green to brown, and the heavy
implication in DragonFlight that bronzes are the only true males (I get
the impression that she was originally thinking that the other colours
were neuter).

The IC answer is that Kylara was planning ahead to what the contraction
would be (as any rider parent would), and that Lessa didn't know what
Kylara had picked for the vowel for the non-contracted form.  By the
time Lessa and F'lar had their own son, we are told simply that the full
name is Felessan.

The contraction occurs at Impression.  There are several instances of a
new rider being greeted by the honorific, and suddenly realising that
they are accepted as a dragonrider.  (The Littlest Dragonboy is a good
example).

The only exceptions in the books are Jaxom and Mirrim.  Jaxom is a
special case anyway - since he's going to be a Lord Holder, it would
stand out if he used the contraction.  Mirrim is the only female rider
of a fighting dragon in the books, and she seems to keep her full name
(as do queen-riders, also female).

In fannish Weyrs (including the MU*s) it seems to be generally the rule
that female riders can choose whether to contract their names on
Impression.

Chris
Journeyman Harper Keris of Ista Weyr, 9th Pass (offline)
Keris @ PernMUSH

***********************************************************************
*  chris@keris.demon.co.uk      *                                     *
*  chriscr@cix.compulink.co.uk  *  FIAWOL (Filking Is A Way Of Life)  *
*  100014.3217@compuserve.com   *                                     *
***********************************************************************
Newsgroups: alt.fan.pern
From: jmoulton@mothra.syr.EDU (Ana Ng)
Subject: My feelings about Telgar...
Organization: Syracuse University, Syracuse, NY
Date: Fri, 18 Dec 92 03:54:17 EST

First, a disclamer. This is *my* personal opinion, and does not reflect the
views of any other rider, player, or wizard from TinyTIM.

There's one thing I don't like about being a Telgar rider on TIM. How I'm
treated elsewhere. I feel like I've done something wrong by wanting to
become a rider on the MU* I've played on the longest.
I love Pern. I've read *every* book, *every* short story. And I love my
dragon to pieces. (Sure it's just VR, but I love her.)
I, for one, hate this hostility I still get from PernMUSH just because I play
TIM. *sigh* I'd love to have a character there, but I don't feel comfortable.
And I love to role-play, but I haven't been given the chance.
I just wanna spew my *personal* views for a second to just show that not every
rider from Telgar thinks they own it, and no one else can have it.
Let's say, I could do whatever I wanted regarding Telgar/TIM/PernMUSH.
Know what I'd do? Have a few Telgar riders help build it on Pern and have
characters there. (Doesn't even have to be the same char.) I wouldn't mind
it being built, but I'd certainly want to help. It's my home. :)
Now of course, I don't see this happening because, well, I'm not in charge
of Telgar, nor will I ever be. But, I want people to know that not everyone
is evil and vindictive toward PernMUSH. I'm not going to speak for others,
but I'm certainly not. I wish I could play there more. I wish I could have
a dragonrider character there as well.
And to any and all PernMUSH players: please, come to TIM and visit. Even if
someone treats you badly, I'd be happy to show you around. I, for one,
would love to have friendly relations between us....and visits. :)

Thanks for listening....

-Jen
jmoulton@mailbox.syr.edu

Jade, Rider of Green Roseth, Telgar WeyrHealer

Newsgroups: alt.fan.pern
From: jsc@monolith.mit.edu (Jin S Choi)
Subject: So, is it over?
Organization: /Net/slayer/users/jsc/.organization
Distribution: usa
Date: Mon, 21 Dec 1992 06:36:22 GMT


After much delay, I finally got a hold of ATWOP and read it in one
sitting. Sigh. Took me back to the time I was first introduced to pern
and finished the first trilogy in two days. Anyway, I was just
wondering, is that all? Is it over? Will there be another? I was
thinking through most of it that it would be the last book. And the end
does seem final, or it could be.  But then, there seems a lot the author
could do with the story from this point. But would she want to? So, does
anyone know? Sorry if this question has been answered before, I'm not a
frequent reader of a.f.p.

Anyway, a few thoughts. Dragonriders are always so careful to avoid
paradox. Oops, spoiler warning



















There. What would have happened if, when Jancis was scribbling her note
to Jaxom as the dragons were going crazy on the bridge, she saw him
arrive, said, Oh, good, and just threw away her note? Or when Aivas
informed Jaxom that there was evidence that two explosions had already
occured on the Red Planet, what would have happened if Jaxom just said,
cool, that means I won't have to go since it's already been done? Just
once, don't you think *some* dragonrider would let curiosity get the
better of him and try to shake his own hand, or go visit Admiral Benden?

Another thing, just what pass is it? I only ask because the books detail
the Ninth Pass, but some of the MUSHes are set in the Tenth Pass. Do
they incorporate all the new Aivas-introduced technology?

Finally, how old is Jaxom? Young enough to expect to be alive in 50
years, I expect.

-Jin
--
Jin Choi
jsc@athena.mit.edu

Newsgroups: alt.fan.pern
From: scarrobi@shearson.com (Steve Carrobis)
Subject: Re: Thread parasites (spoiler potential)
Reply-To: scarrobi@shearson.com
Organization: Lehman Brothers, Inc.
Date: Wed, 16 Dec 1992 20:25:46 GMT

if u were being constantly being scored u would kill them 2! 
---
Steve C. 

 ==> A wise man once told me - There ARE NO Wise Men !
                             - Just fools who think they are.
---------------------------------------------------------------		
 I understand you need someone to do work.
 I don't do work, but, I know this guy who does.
    -Vladimir Taltos
---------------------------------------------------------------

   	


Newsgroups: alt.fan.pern
From: jkiley@andy.bgsu.edu (James H. Kiley)
Subject: Dumb question...
Organization: Bowling Green State University B.G., Oh.
Date: Wed, 16 Dec 1992 20:18:06 GMT

	We're told repeatedly that young dragons must be regularly oiled or
their hide will crack and get patchy and they'll die *between* and once we
get into DQ and *especially* in the Harper Hall trilogy, we're told the same
of firelizards.
	But there are thousands of wild firelizards.
	Who the hell oils *them*?

	:)

	Jim Kiley
	Lots_of_people@Lots_of_MUSHes
	jkiley@andy.bgsu.edu
From: afra@spuddy.uucp (Phillip Harvey-Smith)
Newsgroups: alt.fan.pern
Subject: Another Pern book
Date: 16 Dec 92 03:18:23 GMT
Organization: Federal Telepaths and Telekinetics

Well when I last mailed Anne, she said in response to one of my questions
that I'd find out the answer in the *NEXT* Pern book ! Lets hope it is
soon ! Incidentaly she also said that "Damia's Childeren" should be
out at the end of Jan/begining of Feb, I hope so !

Afra Lyon.



-- 
/------------------------------------------------------------------------\
| Philip Harvey-Smith               Have you come here for forgiveness ? |
|      Alias Afra Lyon of Capella.  Have you come to raise the dead ?    |
|                                   Have you come here to play Jesus     |
| Mail Address afra@spuddy.uucp     To the leppers in your head ?        |
|                                                                        |
|                                        -- U2, For Damia Gwyn-Raven.    |
Newsgroups: alt.fan.pern
From: laborde@oak.Jpl.Nasa.Gov (Gregory R. LaBorde)
Subject: Thread parasites
Summary: Zebedees are bugging me ....
Keywords: Zebedees parasites
Organization: Reliability Engineering Section, JPL
Date: Wed, 16 Dec 1992 06:08:28 GMT
Expires: Tue, 5 Jan 1993 08:00:00 GMT

Having recently finished ATWOP, something has been bugging me. The zebedee
was created to attack and destroy life of the same basis as the thread. AIVAS
cites the long intervals as proof that Jaxom did indeed take the Weyrs to the
past to plant the antimatter engines as well as the "virus." It says "That is
why there were the Long Intervals: The disimproved zebedees that you will
establish - have established long ago - on the surface of the Red Planet, 
twice in the past and once in the future will infect the Cloud when the Red
Planet cuts through it twice in every orbit." 

Why were there Long Intervals only immediately after the zebedees were planted?
Why did they not continue to work in subsequent passages through the Oort
Cloud? Also, since the disimproved zebedees had been planted 1800 turns ago,
could not the ones used for disimprovement themselves be descendants of the
original disimproved ones? Finally, might a closer examination of some of the
dead Thread ovoids  on the Red Planet (the ones Mirrim was thinking about
taking) have revealed that they were killed long ago by the very disimproved
zebedees that were being planted. 


-grl. (not in any Weyr, not a Dragonrider nor a Harper, MUSH is in my Killfile)

Newsgroups: alt.fan.pern
From: scarrobi@shearson.com (Steve Carrobis)
Subject: Re: Dragon names
Reply-To: scarrobi@shearson.com
Organization: Lehman Brothers, Inc.
Date: Mon, 14 Dec 1992 14:02:27 GMT

In article 22478@news.columbia.edu, jsb16@cunixa.cc.columbia.edu (Jennifer S Broekman) writes:
....
 
> -Doriana
> 
>    Only Boys Accepting Feminism Get Kissed Meaningfully  -- Geoff Marcy
> The only unnatural sexual act is that which you cannot perform. - Alfred Kinsey
> 		jenneke is: jsb16@cunixa.cc.columbia.edu

i am intrigued.


---
Steve C. 

 ==> A wise man once told me - There ARE NO Wise Men !
                             - Just fools who think they are.
---------------------------------------------------------------		
 I understand you need someone to do work.
 I don't do work, but, I know this guy who does.
    -Vladimir Taltos
---------------------------------------------------------------

   	


Newsgroups: alt.fan.pern
From: jtraub+@CS.CMU.EDU (Joseph Traub)
Subject: Anne's email address at compuserve
Organization: Carnegie Mellon University
Date: Thu, 17 Dec 1992 20:58:43 GMT


Pardon me for posting this to the net at large, but something has come up that
I need to contact Anne about, and would appreciate any kind soul who could
send me her email address.  I had it at one time, but it appears to have
vanished into that bitbucket I call a computer account.

Thanks in advance.
--JT

-- 
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
Practice random kindness and senseless acts of beauty --Anonymous
Argue for your limitations and sure enough they're yours --Richard Bach
Isn't humanity egocentric? Whenever we talk, we say "Here's my two cents
  worth," but we only offer "a penny for your thoughts." --ariel@cs.ucla.edu

Moonchilde/Amythyst/JT Traub ---           jtraub@cmu.edu
Newsgroups: alt.fan.pern
From: venkman@lamar.ColoState.EDU (Mezo)
Subject: Re: Dumb question...
Date: Thu, 17 Dec 1992 06:05:13 GMT
Organization: Colorado State University, Fort Collins, CO  80523

Shhhhhh!!!!!!!

<<Alert...Alert....Alert...SARCASM...Alert...Alert...Alert>>

Please dont let it get out that Ann is inconsistant.

The foundations of the earth will be torn out from beneath us.

=)

Th'ron, Rider of Wulfrith.

Newsgroups: alt.fan.pern
From: dunk@carson.u.washington.edu (John Dunkelburg)
Subject: Where did the FSP and Pern get connected?
Summary: Where did the FSP and Pern get connected?
Keywords: Pern FSP
Organization: University of Washington
Date: Mon, 14 Dec 1992 00:27:26 GMT

In the book _Generation Warriors_ (part of the Sassinak Trilogy),
there is a passing mention of a colony world that, it was assumed,
misused it's only homing capsule, and so a later colony was never
issued one, becuse it was so close to the FSP core planets.
   Now, to me this 'colony' that misused it's distress beacon sounds
very close to a description of what happened to Pern when Ted
Tubberman launched the Pern Expidition's only distress beacon.
Interesting, isn't it?
   Then, there's the use of an exploration service called the EEC in
both series, although the time frame between the two series (if there
is actually one) is a little vague.   If the two are in the same
universe, why wasn't the Battle of the Purple Sector, or it's hero 
Admiral Paul Benden, mentioned in the Sassinak trilogy?
It's an interesting idea, and until Mrs. McCaffrey herself speaks out,
all ideas are valid (logical ones, please).
   As a sideline, if the two stories occur at the same time, wouldn't
it be interesting if Weyrwoman Lessa and Commander Sassinak met face
to face?   It could be very interesting, as both are strong willed
women, though Sassinak has a personality a bit more like Kylara's,
only with a lot more self-discipline.
   Hope this helps a bit.
************************************************************************
John Dunkelburg, a.k.a. no a.k.a.
DUNK@max.u.washington.edu
My life isn't a soap opera, it's ANIME!
"I only believe in my own power.   Nothing else makes any sense."
		Zakath of Mallorea
Fashion is for the sheep of the world.
Style is for the individuals.   Which are you?
************************************************************************

Newsgroups: alt.fan.pern
From: katala@glia.biostr.washington.edu ()
Subject: WANTED: People to populate New Pern
Organization: Dept Biological Structure-University of Washington
Distribution: na
Date: Sat, 12 Dec 1992 05:51:14 GMT


 Greetings !! 
 I have recently been given the honor of taking over a section of
 TimeMuse and asked to rework it in order to forego a lawsuit
 from Anne McCaffrey herself. The previous owners of this section
 had intended it to be a spoof of Pern . I have been asked to either
 set it up and run it as Pern was intended to be run, or they will remove
 this section altogether. 
 I am in need of people to begin work on the Weyr , which will be Telgar
 first. As well as crafters, holders, etc. There will  also be a large 
 clutch of Dragon Eggs to hatch well after the new year has begun.
 There is also to be a few wild fl clutches to help start the Firelizard 
 population.
 All those interested in a fresh start and a chance to build
 need to either email me or send +mail to Killa on TimeMUSE
 I eagerly await replies to this posting,
 Clear Skies,
 Killa , Weyrwoman of Telgar Weyr

 katala@glia.biostr.washington.edu
 kelr@apr1.ocis.olemiss.edu
 Killa - murren.ai.mit.edu 4201
 (TimeMUSE)                

Newsgroups: alt.fan.pern
From: scarrobi@shearson.com (Steve Carrobis)
Subject: Re: Thread parasites
Reply-To: scarrobi@shearson.com
Organization: Lehman Brothers, Inc.
Date: Fri, 18 Dec 1992 14:33:57 GMT

In article 20308@acs.ucalgary.ca, jsbell@acs.ucalgary.ca (Joshua Bell) writes:
> In article <1992Dec16.060828.10959@elroy.jpl.nasa.gov> laborde@oak.Jpl.Nasa.Gov (Gregory R. LaBorde) writes:
> [snip]
> >Why were there Long Intervals only immediately after the
> >zebedees were planted?
> [snip]
> 
> The Operation Overkill was two-fold, for a reason.
> 
> The orbit of the Red Planet needed to be gradually altered.
> However, simply altering its path would not stop the Thread
> spores already in its cometary trail (tracing their own orbit).
> The zeebedees were used to infect one 'batch' of spores, wiping
> out the Thread in the cometary trail and halo around the planet. 
> 
> The subsequent pass would allow the Red Planet to pick up a 'pure',
> uninfected batch of spores from the Oort cloud (more likely a
> Kupier belt of some sort, with a 250 Turn orbit), which would
> then be infected by the zeebedees... but enough would survive to
> attack Pern.
> 
> By the third assault, in the 9th pass, the orbit of the Red
> Planet was altered enough that it should never pass close enough
> to Pern for its tail and halo to allow Thread to reach Pern. The
> zeebedees would kill any Thread spores still around, preventing a
> 10th pass. Meanwhile, any zeebedees that had made a foothold in
> the Oort cloud would become part of that ecosystem.
> 
> It bugged me that no-one blinked when Aivas said some Oort cloud
> life in the system could be intelligent. Rather like spraying DDT
> to wipe out locusts, and wiping a few villages in the process.
> 
> Joshua
> |         A shimmering net undulating like an infinite borealis.             |
> |                                                  - Chapterhouse: Dune      |
> |                                                                            |
> | jsbell@acs.ucalgary.ca  Academic Computing Services, University of Calgary |
> 


more like agent orange.

---
Steve C. 

 ==> A wise man once told me - There ARE NO Wise Men !
                             - Just fools who think they are.
---------------------------------------------------------------		
 I understand you need someone to do work.
 I don't do work, but, I know this guy who does.
    -Vladimir Taltos
---------------------------------------------------------------