HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: syoung@pecanpi.UUCP (Stan Young)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: Clip ejecting noise of M1 Garand
Date: 30 Jul 92 14:38:21 GMT
Organization: Pecan Pi, Doraville, Georgia


In article <9207281914.AA04100@jupiter.ame.arizona.edu> raymond@jupiter.ame.arizona.edu (Raymond Man) writes:

Stuff deleted.

#He also claimed that was not the sound of the clip hitting the
#ground, which if included would make it sound like
#"twwiiinnnnnnggg-clank".
#
#So can any M1 users tell us their own experience?

Well, it has been a while since I went through DCM qualifications, but the
clip ejecting does make a VERY noticeable sound.  And it sure wasn't the
clip hitting the ground - the splash in the South Carolina mud was a very
different sound.  (Slow fire prone was not exactly a joy that day...)
The sound was also very noticeable anywhere along the firing line.  (And no,
I don't know what it sounds like from the front - the only bad guys I've
encountered weren't armed with M1's, thank goodness!)

Really, when you think about it, it makes SENSE that the clip makes a sound
like a spring escaping - it IS a spring.  A clip is nothing more than a sheet
of spring steel, bent into shape to hold 8 rounds of .30-06.


-- 
Stan Young                                {emory, slammer}!pecanpi!syoung
From: fiddler@concertina.Eng.Sun.COM (steve hix)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: Long Range Fire
Date: 31 Jul 92 12:57:31 GMT
Organization: Sun Microsystems, Mt. View, Ca.

In article <HOLLEN.92Jul30145802@peg.megatek.UUCP> megatek!hollen@uunet.UU.NET (Dion Hollenbeck) writes:
##>>>> On 30 Jul 92 14:36:59 GMT, dv52151@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (Axly) said:
#
#Cable> 1) What's the longest ranged sniper rifle in the world today?
#This is definitely not verified, but I have heard it from several
#sources (as if that meant anything).
#
#1)  50 Caliber

*Which* .50?  There are at least two .50's being used these days
in long-range target shooting, the .50 for the Browning machine
gun, and a shortened-case version that may be called a .50BR.

Then again, some people are still shooting .50-70 or .50-90 and
others in Sharps and other single-shot rifles.

Just being compulsive...  8}

--
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Of making many books there is no end...  |  What's wrong with chasing 
                       -- Eccl. 12:12    |  nebulae till 3 am?  |-(
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
From: ghm@ccadfa.cc.adfa.oz.au (Geoff Miller)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: Air Weapons and the Olympics
Date: 22 Jul 92 11:41:03 GMT
Organization: Australian Defence Force Academy, Canberra, Australia

barry@godzilla.quotron.com (Barry Geipel) writes:

#I have been following the pre-olympic stuff in _Shooting Sports_ and
#I cant seem to figure out the air rifle course of fire.

I'm not an air rifle shooter, and I keep forgetting to bring my UIT
rule books into work, but here goes:

#	All shots at ten meters, 1mm 10 ring:
#	60 shots, one at each target for a max score of 600

This is the main part of the match.  The top eight (I think) competitors
then advance to the final, which is

#	10 shots timed, scored as decimal ( 9.5,9.6 etc ) for a max score of 100

The scores obtained here are _added_ _to_ the scores from the first part,
so if you go into the final with a 2-point lead, then the other competitors
have to do that much better than you in the final to overtake you.

#My questions are:

#	What target are they shooting at, sounds like an NRA AR-5

UIT 10-metre air-rifle target.

#	What is the time limit for the slow fire?

Not sure, but the time limit for 60-shot courses in UIT varies from
90 minutes (rifle) to 150 minutes (free pistol).  I will _try_ to
remember to check this and follow up later.

#	What is the time limit for the timed?

Again I'll _try_ to remember to check.  I haven't seen a final in air
rifle, but we did run UIT-style finals in Free Pistol at the recent 
Australian National Pistol Championships, and I imagine rifle is 
similar.  In Free Pistol, the finalists are all on the range together,
the range officer tells them to "Start", they have 90 (?) seconds to
fire a shot, then all shots are scored and the results announced, then
they go again.

#	How can you get a decimal score on a 1-10 target!!!!

Distance from the 10-ring.  If I remember correctly a shot which just
touches the 10-ring counts as a 10, so you can actually shoot a 10.1!
I'm not sure how this squares with the "max score of 100", but it may
be my memory that's at fault.

#Does anyone know if the shooting sports will get any coverage?

#From the published schedule down here, about three tenths of bugger
all :-(  And this is _after_ the introduction of the finals series,
which were supposed to make it interesting for the viewers.  You
may get a few seconds of recorded highlights around midnight....

Geoff Miller (g-miller@adfa.oz.au)  |   Don't steal.  The government
Computer Centre                     |   hates competition.
Australian Defence Force Academy    |   (via Jeff Cooper)
From: barry@godzilla.quotron.com (Barry Geipel)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: Air Weapons and the Olympics
Date: 29 Jul 92 16:41:58 GMT
Organization: Quotron Systems, Inc.

In article <1992Jul28.211552.4518@wam.umd.edu> gisie@wam.umd.edu (Dr. Death) writes:
#In article <9207281857.AA29808@appserv.Eng.Sun.COM> fiddler@concertina.Eng.Sun.COM (steve hix) writes:
##
##But we now have some evidence that there really are shooting
##events at the Olympics!
#

The Los Angeles Times has been providing excellent coverage in their
daily Qlympics summary. Included are the preliminary and final scores of
the entire field (not just the top three and the USA shooters. Nice Job!
If people are interested, I can post some of the scores...

#Does anyone
#know if the triplecast stuff is showing any of the shooting competition?
#
The triplecast is being run by NBC.... Of course there is NO COVERAGE!

-- 
====================================================
Barry L. Geipel         || Lacking a muse, my mauser
barry@quotron.com       ||  must be my  thunderbolt
NRA CRPA HMGS-PSW       ||
From: pnr0@ns1.cc.lehigh.edu (PAUL N. RITTER)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: Ricochets (was: Shooting in Dumps)
Date: 30 Jul 92 14:38:48 GMT
Organization: Lehigh University

In article <9207280457.AA14473@hpfcso.HP.COM>, post@hpfcso.fc.hp.com (David Post
) writes:
#Paul Ritter on airport security measures:
## detector in BOTH airports. Try and explain THAT to their security! I must
## admit that the security in England were MUCH more relaxed than here. Here,
## weapons were drawn and I was carted away. Not too cool.
#
#My goodness!  What airport was that?  I accidently went through the
#detectors at the Denver airport with several fired 9mm cases.  The guy first
#said "you can't go through with that!"  So I said " Would you kindly throw
#it away?  I don't need it."  I was getting very nervous.  He just gave it
#back and said it was ok.
#
#David Post  davep@hpfcpp.fc.hp.com  hplabs!hpfcla!post
#

        The departing airport was A.B.E. Airport in Allentown, Pa.
        The arriving airport was Heathrow(sp?) Airport in England.
          BTW, the return flight had the same results, but miraculously, the
        same attendants at BOTH airports were working when we came back. I had
        no trouble at that point (they claimed to have remembered me [?] ).
                                               PAUL RITTER
From: sybok@athena.mit.edu (The Rifleman)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: $5000 Shopping Spree
Date: 23 Jul 92 00:42:13 GMT
Article-I.D.: athena.1992Jul23.000854.4178
Organization: Massachusetts Institute of Technology

In article <11366@optilink.UUCP> cramer@optilink.com (Clayton Cramer) writes:
#
#In article <9207211127.AA12411@mimsy.cs.UMD.EDU>, C08926RC@WUVMD.Wustl.Edu (Rob) writes:
## Guns magazine is currently running a contest in which the grand prize
## is a $5000 firearms shopping spree.  I thought this would be an interesting
## subject here.
## 
## If you had $5000 to spend on firearms and/or accessories, what would
## you buy?
## 
## Rob
#
#Barrett Light .50.  No question.  You never know when blue whales
#will come back on land, or _Jurassic Park_ will cease to be fiction.

What about "Puff the Magic Dragon"--a 20mm self-powered gatling gun with
six chambers.  Must be six or eight inches in diameter and cylindrically
shaped, weighing in at 40 pounds or more.  You pick it up, squeeze
the trigger, and the chambers spin around unleasing shots until the belt
runs out.  Is this PTMD or maybe a "GE Chain Gun."  Are these transferable?
My dream vacation would be a trip to Arizona wastelands with one of these
machine gatling cannons, 1000 watermelons, and a mile-long belt rolled up
on a giant spool.  I'd set the watermelons down in a pattern around me,
put on my ears, pick up the cannon, and Rock 'n Roll. . . .

And some would say there's no "sporting purpose" for a 20mm cannon.  Not so.
From: wwarf@copper.ucs.indiana.edu (Wayne J. Warf)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: M1 Garand/M1A history & differences?
Date: 21 Jul 92 12:26:44 GMT
Organization: Indiana University

In article <1992Jul20.203643.12877@CERIS.Purdue.EDU> jheath@fieldofdreams.npirs.purdue.edu (Jim Heath) writes:
##From article <1992Jul20.174941.9988@CERIS.Purdue.EDU>, by jheath@fieldofdreams.npirs.purdue.edu (Jim Heath):

#The Garand was also used in Nam.  As you may have observed, when
#the Garand fires its last round it makes a distinctive "t-ting"
#sound as it ejects the clip.  Victor Charlie observed this and
#told his comrades.  The Americans who were using Garands observed
#that they were getting charged when they had just emptied their
#rifles and begain keeping an M1 carbine or pistol at hand.  This
#ruined a lot of VC sappers nights.


I had never heard of this, but it reminded of the story from WW2 in the
Pacific. The story is that the Japanese were used to the Garand and
would wait to hear the clip eject and then rush the position. When
some Marine units were armed with M1941 Johnson rifles <10 shot> they
would fire off 8 rounds, throw a Garand clip into the air, the Japanese
would show themselves, and *BOOM* *BOOM*.

-- 
 +--------------------------------------------------------------------+
 | Wayne J. Warf -- WWARF@ucs.indiana.edu -- I speak for myself only  |
 |"Government is like fire, a dangerous servant and a fearful master" |
 +--------------------------------------------------------------------+
From: calderac@ctrvx1.vanderbilt.edu (CALDERAC)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: Georgia - Land of Paradise for Progunners???
Date: 28 Jul 92 03:34:52 GMT
Organization: Vanderbilt University

In article <1992Jul27.013407.26236@massey.ac.nz>, C.T.Teo@massey.ac.nz (C.T. Teo) writes...
#Re: Georgia - Land of Paradise for Pro-gunners???
# 
#Our local TV Frontline programme shown a few minutes clip on firearms ownership
#in the State of Georgia, USA. Beside showing the residents (young and old)
#carrying firearms in the open, it was said that the crime rates are
#comparatively low and that (listen to this) it is MANDATORY for household to
#possess firearm(s)!!! It this true???
# 
#In New Zealand with a population of over 3M, I was told that the number of
#firearm licences for restricted weapons(small arms) is less than 3000 and these
#are strictly for sporting purpose. Essentially, you are permitted to carry
#the restricted weapon from your residence to the shooting range and back ONLY.
#Although my understanding was that there are over 300,000 general firearm licences (for rifles and shotguns) in this
#country.
# 
#GEORGIA here I come...........
# 
# 
#C.T.Teo@massey.ac.nz
#Massey University
#New Zealand.

That sounds like a most interesting show, though unfortunately it
stretches the truth quite a bit. Let me begin by saying that I grew
up in Georgia and am now a grad. student in Tennessee. Georgia does
have some of the more liberal laws concerning firearms, but there is
no open carrying allowed. There is a concealed carry permit available
which allows one to carry almost anywhere(not to a bar, public event
or church etc) which I like because I can carry when I go home. When I 
say carry, I mean carrying a loaded weapon. There are few restrictions
on transporting unloaded weapons. There is no statewide law for mandatory
gun ownership, either. What this comes from is a small town just 
outside of Atlanta, the state capital, which passed a law requiring
each houshold to have a large caliber firearm and ammunition. Apparently
they have one of the lowest crime rates in the country, but many
will argue that it has nothing to do with that law! The town is named
Kennesaw, and you might hear many of the anti-gun types refer to it
as a "small farming community" which is simply wrong. 

One thing to note is that while Georgia does allow the citizenry many
of the rights it should, it has been and continues to be a battle. I
am not sure of the history of the concealed carry permit, but I have
heard that it was written by a local group that had to force the issue
politically and in court. Also, one should be aware that Atlanta is 
a very different place from the rest of Georgia, and has begun
another assault on gun rights. Atlanta has one of the highest rates
of violent crime in the whole country, and seems to be making the
mistake of thinking gun control will help with crime control.  

Alan Calder
From: white@drwho.ee.ufl.edu (John White)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: need 9mm suggestions for beginner
Date: 23 Jul 92 18:36:31 GMT
Organization: University of Florida, Electrical Engineering Dept.


*******************************************************
I have a (probably a FAQ) question:

(Please bear with me if this is too basic...)

I am looking to buy a 9mm semiauto pistol. 
I would like the net's suggestions for a good
9mm pistol for plinking and non-competition use.

*******************************************************

Some background:

* I currently own a 5-shot, 2", 38 sp SW revolver.
* I am a 5'10", 175 lb. , 32 yr old male
* I am not that experienced w/ firearms.

*******************************************************

_My_ priorities for the 9mm:

* good to high quality
* high reliability
* light weight, prefer < 30 oz.
* medium to high mag. count (>10)
* no need to conceal
* dedicated, mechanical safety _switch_
* fun to shoot
* it doesn't have to be inexpensive, but it wouldn't hurt.

*******************************************************

If you do respond, I'd really appreciate:

* only respond if you actually _own_ the gun.
  This will keep replies down and to-the-point.
* please include approximate new (and used) price.
* please include specific model number
* if you have the manufacturer's address, that would be great.

******************************************************
Please respond directly to me and I will 
summarize and post.  

  Also, I realize that this is a very subjective
  question, and I do _not_ want to 
  be responsible for starting a x vs. y flame war.,
  so, PLEASE, respond directly to me, not the net.

*******************************************************

Thanks in advance for your help,

John White
white@drwho.ee.ufl.edu
From: bhoughto@sedona.intel.com (Blair P. Houghton)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: $5000 Shopping Spree
Date: 21 Jul 92 17:51:09 GMT
Organization: Intel Corp., Chandler, Arizona

In article <9207211127.AA12411@mimsy.cs.UMD.EDU> C08926RC@WUVMD.Wustl.Edu (Rob) writes:
#If you had $5000 to spend on firearms and/or accessories, what would
#you buy?

A congressman.

				--Blair
				  "Rimshot, buckshot; who can tell the diff?"
From: smpod@mars.lerc.nasa.gov (Stefan)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: M1 Garand/M1A history & differences?
Date: 22 Jul 92 20:33:35 GMT
Organization: who knows


 johno@sdd.hp.com (John Ongtooguk) writes...
#   .... Other differences that have been noted are
#   that the M1 is a better long range rifle when used with the arsenal
#   173 gr FMJBT match ammo as the 1:10 twist and slightly higher velocity 
#   due to more powder capacity (and longer barrel ?) tends to produce
#   better groups than the equivalent ammo used in an M14,

Most people find the M14 more accurate which comes from a shorter piston
stroke and .308 cartridge.  I think that the twist is the same in both rifles.
Many people use IMR 4895 in both rifles and the loading of this powder is
closer to the .308 capacity than the .30-06.
From: andrzej.taramina@rose.com (andrzej taramina)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: .357 Carbine??
Date: 31 Jul 92 12:57:52 GMT
Organization: Rose Media Inc, Toronto, Ontario.


Date Entered: 07-31-92 00:19

I've heard that there is such a beastie as a .357 Carbine, and I
would be interested in acquiring one.

Problem is that I don't know anything about them.  Can anyone
enlighten me as to who manufactures a .357 carbine, the model
numbers, etc?

Any personal experiences, good or bad, with such a gun would also
be much appreciated.

Thanks........

#From the 'broidery 'droid........Andrzej
---
   DeLuxe  1.12 #168   .357 Magnum: The ultimate in feminine protection!
   RoseMail 1.70: RoseNet<=>Usenet Gateway : Rose Media 416-733-2285
From: fiddler@concertina.Eng.Sun.COM (steve hix)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: Air Weapons and the Olympics
Date: 28 Jul 92 20:39:02 GMT
Organization: Sun Microsystems, Mt. View, Ca.


Someone at our local newspaper made a mistake: they passed on some
information about an Olympic shooting event!

Actually, all it was was a quote from David Johnson, an American
air rifle competitor.  He missed getting into the medal round by
a single point.  (His quote referred to his problem with
consistency being the problem.)

But we now have some evidence that there really are shooting
events at the Olympics!

In other projectile-related Olympic news, did you all see
how they lit the big torch in Barcelona?  The night shot
with the burning arrow was really quite nifty!



--
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Of making many books there is no end...  |  What's wrong with chasing 
                       -- Eccl. 12:12    |  nebulae till 3 am?  |-(
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
From: andrzej.taramina@rose.com (andrzej taramina)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: JHP's In Canada??
Date: 30 Jul 92 14:39:27 GMT
Organization: Rose Media Inc, Toronto, Ontario.


Date Entered: 07-30-92 00:39

Someone recently mentioned that Hollowpoints are illegal in handguns
in Canada (or at least Ontario).  Anyone out there familiar with
Canuck law that can verify or deny this statement?

Sure would like to know since I have a box of .357 JHP's that would
go great in my 686 revolver!

Many thanks for the clarification.........

#From the 'broidery 'droid........Andrzej
---
   DeLuxe  1.12 #168   Hollowpoints: When you care to send the very best!
   RoseMail 1.70: RoseNet<=>Usenet Gateway : Rose Media 416-733-2285
From: holger@vmars.tuwien.ac.at (Holger Reusch (Dipl. ALF in spe))
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: Hollowpoints illegal in N.J. ?
Date: 24 Jul 92 15:37:00 GMT
Organization: Technical University Vienna, Dept. for Realtime Systems, AUSTRIA

In <18982@smoke.brl.mil> gwyn@smoke.brl.mil (Doug Gwyn) writes:
#Since a responsible defensive user of a handgun would select hollow-point
#bullets as the most appropriate choice for the intended purpose, one has
#to wonder what the lay public's perception of hollow-points is.  I guess
#I'm too familiar with weapons technology to grasp what the public perception
#is -- could somebody who's sure of it please summarize what the "man on the
#street" thinks about hollow-point rounds?  Apparently they have a bad rep..

In Germany, HPs are forbidden for handgun owners.  The general level of
information is, therefore, low.  The average German reads about HPs
in the newspapers or hears about them via TV.  Most commentators make
HPs into some kind of hyper-explosive piece of artillery which blows
up the target just by hitting.  So, obviously, the general attitude is
something along the lines "Only maniacs want to have them."

In Austria, where HPs are in principle free to possess for anybody older
than 21, nowbody talks about them and nobody cares about the bullet
form.  The local gun grabbers rave against guns in general, they 
obviously aren't concerned with mere details. :-)  So the general
Austrian attitide could be subsummed as "Hollowpoints, so what." :-)

-- 
| Holger Reusch                             |
| Technical University of Vienna, Austria <-+--- No kangaroos here,
| Dept. for Real-Time Systems               |    sorry!
| holger@vmars.tuwien.ac.at                 |
From: erudnick@pica.army.mil (FSAC-SID)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Long Range Handgun Ballistics
Date: 21 Jul 92 14:15:58 GMT


A discussion I've been having off-line leads me to the following:


Is anybody on the net with a decent handgun/small arms ballistics program,
one that takes into account ballistic coefficient and sectional density as
well as bullet mass, diameter, and muzzle velocity, willing to do the 
following in a quick 'n' dirty manner?


Conditions:
Standard atmospheric conditions
5" barrel
9mm - 124 gr. FMJ at 1300 ft/s
.45 ACP - 230 gr. FMJ at a velocity corresponding to +P pressure [I don't
     have a number for this - anyone?]

For both cartridges, compute inches of bullet drop at 100 yard increments
out to 900 yards (or 100 meter increments out to 800 meters). Residual
velocity/energy and degrees of superelevation of the bore above the line
of sight to hit point of aim at each increment would be of interest.


I fully realize that this is well beyond practical handgun ranges. However,
the "Artillery Luger" was sighted to 800 m, and I was curious how modern
ammo would do under those conditions, and also how the USSOCOM .45 
"Offensive Pistol" might do. I realize that dispersion and hit probability
are concerns, but they do not affect this exercise.

Thanks in advance for any and all assistance. Flames welcome on this one.


Ed Rudnicki     erudnick@pica.army.mil     All disclaimers apply
Protect the Second Amendment - boycott Ruger products