From: daved@convex.com (David Dorfman)
Newsgroups: rec.motorcycles
Subject: Re: Won't be in Colorado...
Date: 10 Nov 92 20:51:23 GMT
Article-I.D.: convex.daved.721428683
Organization: CONVEX Computer Corporation, Richardson, Tx., USA
X-Disclaimer: This message was written by a user at CONVEX Computer
              Corp. The opinions expressed are those of the user and
              not necessarily those of CONVEX.

In <1992Nov10.180413.27714@sei.cmu.edu> dbidwa@sei.cmu.edu (Daniel Bidwa) writes:


>daved@convex.com (David Dorfman) writes:
>|> jfh@netcom.com (Jack Hamilton) writes:
>|> >I don't agree.  I prefer to have a friendly workplace.  Part of
>|> >friendliness is knowing more about people, and that sometimes includes
>|> >their sexual orientation.  Straight people have no compunction about
>|> >revealing their sexual identities; why should gay people? 
>|> 
>|> If they trust the people they work with to not hold it against them then
>|> maybe they should, but In this wonderful world I make it a practice of not 
>|> sharing any information with any co-worker, that my co-worker would find
>|> offensive, both out of respect for their values and to protect myself from
>|> a negative reaction on their part. Would you tell your Boss you once
>|> broke some unimportant law, if you felt he would lose respect for you?

>There's a big difference between, say, telling your boss that you shoplifted
>something and telling your boss that you went to the movies with a date named
>Dave (or some other same-sex name). Same-sex relations aren't illegal. 

To be more clear, I don't tell my boss or co-workers anything they would 
consider in appropriate. As a heterosexual I would not tell anyone that 
was not a close personal friend about an extra marital or adulterous affair.
I don't want to tell you how to live your life, but don't tell me about things
I consider unwelcome or unpleasant. 

>|> Use common sense, you don't have to advertise your political and sexual
>|> beliefs at work. If the work place is open and friendly you may want to, but
>|> work is not the place to get approval for all your personnel and political
>|> decisions. 

>I don't want anyone's goddamn approval, I just don't want to worry about
>losing my job because some homophobe takes offense to me saying that I went
>out with my male lover. (To the movies, to dinner, to watch the sun set over
>some particularly pretty hill, not necessarily to his bedroom; I don't plan on
>splashing a play-by-play of my sex life all over the lunchroom.) If you go out
>on a date with a woman, do you feel that you have to hide that fact from
>everyone in your office? 

If it was a so called " adulterous affair" I would not volunteer the information
to anyone in my office. If I felt co-workers would be offended I would not 
volunteer any information that would offend them.

>|> The question was, should a protected class be created on the basis of sexual
>|> orientation. The words "protected class" have a special meaning under the
>|> law to offer protection above and beyond normal civil and job rights.

>Okay, so just what does "protected class" mean? CFV's been tossing the term
>around, and apparently it's caught on, so how about explaining just what the
>hell it means.

Specifically a protected class as defined in my companies EEO guidelines is
" Those groups who, in the eyes of the Law-Making bodies, have sufferred discrimination
--- females, minorities, handicapped persons. older workers and veterans"

Being a member of a protected class protects you by requiring an employer to hire
you instead of a non-protected worker in a situation where all other factors 
are considered equal or within a reasonable distance. The same protects you 
against a lay-off or dismissal when other non-protected workers are in the same
situation and can be terminated in lieu of a member of a protected class.

>|> I hope your emotional response is not indicative of what will happen.
>|> Perhaps we should be working for more rights for all people.

>Gee, perhaps we should. 
>So what the fuck have you done?

I can understand your response considering you have a lot more to lose in this
situation, but when each splinter group that can be subject to discrimination 
wants there own protected niche instead of arguing for general protection of
everyones rights it is not the answer. 

I must confess I have done nothing to protect your rights as a homosexual except
to accept homosexuals on the same basis as other members of the society in which I live.
As far as the rest of us, I voted to oust the republican party, which did nothing for 
anyone except protestant white males.

>Dan, just another one of those emotional faggots

I don't know what to make of this ^ Don't get angry at me, if more people were like me 
you wouldn't need the protection of a special class.