From: jfed@athena.mit.edu (Jude G Federspiel)
Subject: Re: The blame game
Reply-To: jfed@athena.mit.edu.UUCP (Jude G Federspiel)
Organization: MIT Project Athena
Distribution: usa
Date: Thu, 3 Sep 1992 04:05:31 GMT

In article <QiRBr*5W0@caleb.UUCP> jdp@caleb.UUCP (Jim Pritchett) writes:
>In article <1992Aug31.220001.2595@pony.Ingres.COM>, QUOTE OF THE YEAR writes:
>
>> In article <bVcBr*rV0@caleb.UUCP>, jdp@caleb.UUCP (Jim Pritchett)  writes...

>> >I'm telling you again.  The deficit is MUCH LOWER than it would have been
>> >if a Democrat had been President!
>> >
>> I realize that you truelly believe this. But you must also believe
>> that this is only an opinion. If you can't see that then you have been
>> listening to Republican dogma far too much.

Jim, [and excuse me for butting in to a discussion to which I do not belong]
 but please allow me to help you out.

I saved this post when I saw it--I knew it would come in handy:

This data is taken from a Wall Street Journal article detailing the 
congressfolk who would spend the most if everything went their way, as
well as the dollar amount of the total of spending _increases_ and _decreases_
said folk sponsored.  All amounts given in billions.  Enjoy, democrats!!


<------------clipped from an article posted by Patrick Sugent,  
               sug6@usite-next.uchicago.edu (thanks to Pat)---------------->
_____________________________________________________________________________


								    net cost of
					increases	decreases   projects
Rank	Member	       Party, State     sponsored	sponsored   sponsored

1	Boxer, Barbara    (D,CA)	$406		$-1.26		$405
2	Johnston, Harry   (D,FL)	$370		$-0.83		$370
3	Towns, Ed.        (D,NY)	$347		$-0.38		$347
4	Norton, Eleanor   (D,DC)	$347		$-1.43		$345
5	Hayes, Charles    (D,IL)	$344		$-0.11		$344
6	Martinez, Matthew (D,CA)	$343		$-0.49		$343
7	Owens, Major R.   (D,NY)	$341		$-0.16		$341
8	Savage, Gus       (D,IL)	$339		$-0.02		$339
9	Frank, Barney     (D,MA)	$341		$-2.49		$339
10	Dymally, Mervyn M.(D,CA)	$337		$-0.02		$337
11	Conyers Jr., John (D,MI)	$327		$-0.31		$327
12	Rangel, Charles B.(D,NY)	$332		$-5.50		$326
13	Collins, Barbara  (D,MI)	$324		$-0.08		$324
14	Weiss, Ted        (D,NY)	$324		$-0.46		$324
15	Ford, Harold      (D,TN)	$323		$-0.16		$323
16	Clay, William L.  (D,MO)	$319		$-0.08		$318
17	Dellums, Ronald V.(D,CA)	$316		$-0.12		$316
18	Collins, Cardiss  (D,IL)	$316		$-0.38		$315
19	Mfume, Kweisi     (D,MD)	$309		$-0.38		$309
20	Payne, Donald     (D,NJ)	$307		$-0.03		$307
21	Mink, Patsy       (D,NJ)	$304		$-0.39		$303
22	Kleczka, Gerald D.(D,NY)	$303		$-0.07		$303
23	Serrano, Jose     (D,NY)	$302		$-0.06		$302
24	Rahall II, Nick J.(D,WV)	$300		$-0.16		$300
25	Kolter, Joseph P. (D,PA)	$301		$-1.75		$299
26	Pelosi, Nancy     (D,CA)	$299		$-0.24		$299
27	Flake, Floyd      (D,NY)	$298		$-0.09		$298
28	Abercrombie, Neil (D,HI)	$298		$-0.72		$297
29	Foglietta, Thomas (D,PA)	$294		$-0.08		$294
30	Kildee, Dale E.   (D,MI)	$293		$-1.85		$291
31	Markey, Edward    (D,MA)	$290		$-0.47		$290
32	McNulty, Michael  (D,NY)	$291		$-1.54		$289
33	Poshard, Glenn    (D,IL)	$289		$-0.09		$289
34	Brown, Jr. George (D,CA)	$290		$-3.00		$287
35	Hochbrueckner, G. (D,NY)	$286		$-0.15		$286
36	Oberstar, James   (D,MN)	$288		$-2.07		$286
37	Evans, Lane       (D,IL)	$288		$-2.80		$286
38	Lipinski, William (D,IL)	$287		$-1.25		$286
39	Yates, Sidney R.  (D,IL)	$286		$-0.01		$286
40	Lefalce, John J.  (D,NY)	$287		$-2.01		$285
41	Feighan, Edward F.(D,OH)	$281		$-0.14		$281
42	Scheuer, James H. (D,NY)	$282		$-0.61		$281
43	Annunzio, Frank   (D,IL)	$279		$-0.15		$279
44	Dwyer, Bernard J. (D,NJ)	$283		$-4.54		$279
45	Ravenel, Arthur   (R,SC)	$279		$-1.12		$278
                       ^^^^^^^^^^^^  --ooops, one slipped through the cracks
46	Berman, Howard    (D,CA)	$280		$-1.99		$278
47 	Nowak, Henry      (D,NY)	$278		$-0.38		$277
48	Miller, George    (D,CA)	$279		$-2.16		$277
49	Lewis, John       (D,GA)	$276		$-0.16		$276
50	Mavroules,Nicholas(D,MA)	$274		$-0.67		$273
51	Moody, Jim        (D,WI)	$273		$-0.32		$273
52	Studds, Gerry E.  (D,MA)	$273		$-0.52		$273
53	Traxler, Bob      (D,MI)	$272		$-0.08		$272
54	Olver, John W.    (D,MA)	$272		$ 0.00		$272
55	Edwards, Don      (D,CA)	$272		$-0.03		$272
56	McDermott, Jim    (D,WA)	$272		$-0.55		$271
57	Vento, Bruce F.   (D.MN)	$271		$-0.41		$270
58	Sangmeister, G.   (D,IL)	$270		$-0.09		$270
59	Downey, Thomas    (D,NY)	$270		$-0.07		$270
60	Dicks, Norman     (D,WA)	$270		$-0.31		$270
61	Schumer, Charles  (D,NY)	$269		$-0.01		$269
62	Solarz, Stephen   (D,NY)	$268		$-0.01		$268
63	Coyne, William    (D,PA)	$267		$-0.08		$267
64	Gejdenson, Sam    (D,CT)	$267		$-1.64		$265
65	Russo, Marty      (D,IL)	$263		$ 0.00		$263
66	Kennedy, Joseph   (D,MA)	$262		$-0.01		$263
67	Faleomavaega, Eni (D,AS)	$264		$-1.44		$262
68	Beilenson, Anthony(D,CA)	$261		$-0.39		$261
69	Swift, AL         (D,WA)	$259		$-0.31		$259
70	Bustamante, Albert(D,TX)	$258		$-0.59		$258
71	Atkins, Chester   (D,MA)	$261		$-4.51		$257
72	Stark, Fortney    (D,CA)	$218		$-0.39		$218
73	Peterson, Pete    (D,FL)	$214		$-1.79		$212
74	Tallon, Robin     (D,SC)	$211		$-0.08		$211
75	Gibbons, Sam      (D,FL)	$201		$-0.01		$201
76	Lehman, William   (D,FL)	$187		$-0.01		$187
77	Torres, Esteban E.(D,CA)	$154		$-0.45		$153
78	Stokes, Louis     (D,OH)	$153		$-0.08		$153
79	Staggers, Harley  (D,WV)	$150		$-0.13		$150
80	Oakar, Mary Rose  (D,OH)	$147		$-0.01		$147
81	Bonior, David     (D,MI)	$145		$-3.08		$142
82	Traficant, James  (D,OH)	$141		$-0.59		$140
83	Jefferson, William(D,LA)	$ 93		$-0.18		$ 93
84	Ackerman, Gary    (D,NY)	$ 84		$-1.27		$ 83
85	De Lugo, Ron      (D,VI)	$ 78		$-3.14		$ 75
86	Engel, Eliot      (D,NY)	$ 71		$-0.61		$ 71
87	Gephardt, Richard (D,MO)	$ 69		$ 0.00		$ 69
88	Johnson, Tim      (D,SD)	$ 64		$-0.46		$ 63
89	Emerson, Bill     (R,MO)	$ 60		$-3.78		$ 57
90	Smith, Christopher(R,NJ)	$ 52		$ 0.00		$ 52
91	Dingell, John     (D,MI)	$ 53		$-1.59		$ 52
92	Quillen, James    (R,TM)	$ 49		$-0.68		$ 49
                       ^^^^^^^^^^^^ ---dang, another one 
93	Gonzalez, Henry   (D,TX)	$ 46		$-0.07		$ 46
94	Wilson, Charles   (D,TX)	$ 47		$-1.05		$ 46
95	Williams, Pat     (D,MT)	$ 46		$-0.19		$ 46
96	Sanders, Bernie   (I,VT)	$ 45		$-0.21		$ 45
97	Unsoeld, Jolene   (D,WA)	$ 44		$-0.74		$ 44
98	Waxman, Henry     (D,CA)	$ 43		$-0.01		$ 43
99	Roe, Robert       (D,NJ)	$ 44		$-2.04		$ 42
100	Kaptur, Marcy     (D,OH)	$ 42		$-0.54		$ 42

<--------end of clipped article, carets and snide comments mine-------------->



This shows pretty conclusively that under a democratic president who would
have vetoed decidedly _fewer_ democratically-pushed bills, our debt (and 
deficit) would be MUCH bigger.  Oh, I'm sorry, I must have forgotten all of 
the miraculous growth that would occur with all this spending, and the tax 
revenues would roll right in, right?  Sure.	

Midway between the highest and lowest spenders is $224 billion.  If
those expenditures were authorized by a democrat president and _no more_,
we'd still be $224 billion more dollars in debt, ignoring the petty cuts shown
in the fifth column.	

What you have to understand is that although it is impossible to say "such and
such would have happened" with any surety, it is pretty clear from figures
such as these that a democratic president would have (and still will, if 
elected) blown us back to the economic stone age what with the desire to 
pad every special interest lobbying organization's wallet (he would have
or will owe them all for getting him elected!!) and the desire to 
solve all of society's programs with more spending--an irresponsible 
ideology at best.

>
>No, you have been listening to liberal propaganda for too long.
>
>How in the world can the liberal Democrats balance the budget when they have so
>many expensive new social programs that they want the government to enact?


yup.

>                                                Jim Pritchett
>
>
>UUCP:  rwsys.lonestar.org!caleb!jdp
> or    utacfd.uta.edu!rwsys!caleb!jdp


Jude Federspiel
jfed@athena.mit.edu

(thanks to Pat Sugent for the stolen article)
Newsgroups: alt.politics.clinton