From: gcolello@biosphere.Stanford.EDU (Greg Colello)
Subject: Need For Automated Programming? (Re: I Take It Back)
Organization: DSO, Stanford University
Date: Wed, 18 Nov 92 02:12:00 GMT

In article <3745@news.cerf.net> billabs@nic.cerf.net (Bill Romanowski)  
writes:
> A few weeks ago I posted some gripes about NeXT. Well.....
> I've just completed a week at Dev Camp in Chicago. It was
> great++. The NeXT people were top notch and material presented
> was also of the highest quality. Ahhh! Enlightenment!!
> 
> The class contained no NeXT religion beyond what is embodied
> in design of the system software architects.
> 
> I now understand that the NeXT vision goes far beyond the physical 
> world of the machine. It'll be great when bigger/faster/better
> machines come out but after seeing it all more clearly, NeXTSTEP has 
> me re-thinking all aspects of how I design for -any- platform. 
> Everything else now seems years behind the times. 
> 
> Sorry NeXT, I take it all back.
> 
> bill romanowski
> prairie research

Well it's sure nice to hear that the developer class is so good, but it  
reveals a problem too. It's hard to appreciate the programming aspects of  
the Next platform without taking a $1000 developer class (and that's just  
the beginning).

I believe this is due to the underlying complexity of object-oriented  
window programming (not a Next specific problem). This weakness has  
existed since windowing systems first appeared: a mind-boggling profusion  
of utilities with VeryYyYyYy_long-STRangeNAMES and countless inscrutable  
options emanating from several different loosely linked subsystems tied  
together mysteriously with an unfamiliar version of C, containing  
messaging and object extensions. And it's still true on the Next (albeit  
MUCH better).

There's no way that "decent folk" can in all good conscience claim the  
Next is an easy environment to program. It IS easy to set up the  
programming interface. After that it's hard work. If you know how to do it  
(after 1-2 years solid experience), a hell of a lot of power is at your  
fingertips. But how many people are we still squeezing out with that 1-2  
year learning curve? This is supposed to be the intuitive GUI world of the  
Next. Is "intuitive GUI" only for application users?

The only answer to this problem that I can see is a complete automated  
programming system or intimately linked set of tools. Project Builder and  
Interface Builder point the way, but they drop you off a cliff after  
you've built your interface. And the palette is just a tease. It's time  
for us Next third party developers to come up with the world's first  
COMPLETE automated programming system. Such a tool would generate some  
even more serious advocacy for the Next, but we can't expect Next to do  
it.

The first step towards this goal is a solid design spec. How about a  
comp.sys.next.programming thread for that purpose? I'm willing to fire the  
first shot if there is any interest. Any comments?

PS. - PLEASE!!! Don't write back and tell me that a complete automated  
programming system has already been done or that it's not possible. If you  
think either, you're probably a REAL programmer and won't benefit from  
this discussion. On the other hand making a list of Next packages that  
have some of the automated programming functionality and listing that  
functionality would be useful.

-----------------------------------------------------------------
Greg Colello
Carnegie Institution, Department of Plant Biology
Stanford University
gcolello@biosphere.stanford.edu