HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: dlg6627@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (Darmawan  Ludirdja)
Subject: Re: East Timor Communist ? NOT!
Organization: University of Illinois at Urbana
Date: Wed, 15 Apr 1992 18:12:57 GMT

zam@athena.mit.edu (Nor Aazizam Mohd Aasif) writes:

>In article <1992Apr15.150615.4695@csc.canterbury.ac.nz> chuah@elec.canterbury.ac.nz (DanC) writes:
>>In article <1992Apr14.191854.24657@ux1.cso.uiuc.edu> dlg6627@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (Darmawan  Ludirdja) writes:
>>
>>>>A teaser : The population of East Timor in 1975 was 688,000. Today,
>>>>it is 450,000. Where do you think the rest of them went? And no,
>>>>the answer is NOT migration. Think guns, torture and detention.
>>>               ^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>>>
>>>How do you know there is NOT a migration???????
>>
>>Yeah right, a migration from the streets to the jail and slaughter houses.


>From "In These Times", Dec. 18-24, 1991. p. 2

>	Since Indonesia invaded East Tumor in 1975 -- declaring the
>territory its 27th province in 1976 -- the island of 700,000 has lost
>200,000 people to war [against Fretilin] and famine.


You need to know something to interpret any news!. There are two (at least :-) )
version of news regarding east timor. Pro and contra. The above news is a 
contra news! I could smell it :-) 

>===------ 
>NorAazizam MohdAAsif	 
>The white man made many promises to us but they never kept but one; they
>promised to take our land and they took it.
>                                                        Red Cloud

Darmawan
dlg6627@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu
Newsgroups: soc.culture.asean
Subject: Re: Zam Again!
From: chuah@elec.canterbury.ac.nz (DanC)
Date: 17 Apr 92 03:13:19 +1200
Organization: Electronic and Electrical Engineering Department, University of Canterbury, New Zealand.

In article <1992Apr16.062747.9077@athena.mit.edu> zam@athena.mit.edu (Nor Aazizam Mohd Aasif) writes:

>	There are some misunderstandings here.  Kelab UMNO Boston is
>not a political group, but rather a social one.  Every normal Malay
>student would be a part of it; 

Hang on, you mean even the social club there only accepts Malay
members?  What a shame, it defeats the "social" emphasis, doesn't
it?  I have not seen any social clubs here in NZ that limits
its membership to only one race, especially an overseas students'
one.

----------------------------------------------------------------------
Dennis Chuah, BE (Elec)    | "One Country,  | Supporting the Malaysian 
Te Whare Wananga O Waitaha | One People." - | Hockey team for gold in 
Aotearoa.                  | Maori proverb. | Barcelona.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
"Pencangkul Matahari" email: chuah@stargate.elec.canterbury.ac.nz
From: hmng@buengf.bu.edu (hockmin ng)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.asean
Subject: SCREAMING OBSCENITIES 101
Date: 16 Apr 92 13:00:23 GMT
Reply-To: hmng@buengf.bu.edu (hockmin ng)
Followup-To: soc.culture.asean
Organization: College of Engineering, Boston University, Boston, MA, USA


  I wonder if there is a course in MIT called SCREAMING OBSCENITIES 101.
 If there is, Zam would probably have gotten an A++ in it.

H.M. Ng
-- 
*   *  ****   ****  *  *  Name        : Hock Min Ng 
*   * *    * *      * *   Voice mail  : 617-352 5573
***** *    * *      **    Snail mail  : 277, Babcock St. Box 1879,
*   * *    * *      * *                 Boston MA 02215, USA.
From: vcs_teo@csd.brispoly.ac.uk (VCS Teo)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.asean
Subject: Re: Use of 'negro'  (Re: Azizam - Oppressors and the Oppressed)
Date: 15 Apr 92 11:29:06 GMT
Organization: Bristol Polytechnic, England

In article <2367@news.duke.edu> jit@slic.cellbio.duke.edu writes:


>In the US, the terms 'negro' and 'black' are no longer popular because
>they are politically incorrect.  I.e., you don't call someone based
>on the color of their skin.
        ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
	What is the politically correct term for the Mat Sallehs then ?

>The new term is African American. 
>
>I don't blame anyone for not knowing all these.  I knew nothing until I
>came to the US.  I wonder how many people know about the Darkie
>toothpaste.  One of the my American friends saw I used it and found
>it unbelievable.
>
>I think Darkie Toothpaste is no longer produced because someone
>protested to its parent company Monsanto located in St. Louis, MO.

	I believe its renamed Darlie now.
Newsgroups: soc.culture.asean
From: khoo-siau-cheng@CS.YALE.EDU (Siau Cheng Khoo)
Subject: Moral and Education (Re: Zam sinks to new depths)
Organization: Yale University Computer Science Dept., New Haven, CT 06520-2158
Date: Wed, 15 Apr 1992 13:57:56 GMT

In article <14APR199214330509@juliet.caltech.edu> chong@juliet.caltech.edu (Chong, Francis F. S.) writes:
>
>	My, my....I see that NorAazizam MohdAasif has sunk to new depths 
>in his never-ending struggle to dig a deeper hole to fall into. What an
>impressive vocabulary you have! Of course, we are no strangers to each 
>other....zam and I have exchanged pleasantries in the past. He was usually
>inaccurate and racist, but never was he so obsessed with obscenities. What
>wonders a college education is doing for him, eh?
         ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

I always wonder how ones morality has to do with his college
education. As far as I know, most courses conducted in college does
not in any way contribute to or reinforce ones moral principles.
Therefore, it's more likely that ones moral/ethic, and the way/manner
these are expressed, mainly depends on his environment: the
environment he lives in and grew up in; and equally important are how
strong his desires and his belief are. College education only provides
him a way to survive in the society comfortably, and an opportunity to
effect his moral principles upon a wider audience. That's why white
collar crimes are always more damaging than other crimes. Any comment?

>	More to the point, why do you type such obscenities on the screen,
>and then apologize thereafter? Are you unable to carry out a reasoned
          ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>debate without resorting to all sorts of obscenities, that, after all, 
>merely reflect your abysmal lack of refinement. Perhaps it is too much to 
>hope for, that you'd improve with the years.

This is what higher education has taught him -- the ability and the
skill to play politics. Give an apology so as to win over some readers
through sympathy. Play the emotion, not the issue. This happens so
often in the US Presidential Campaign this year. What a pity.

-- Siau Cheng Khoo
From: fajack@cc.usu.edu
Newsgroups: soc.culture.asean
Subject: Re: The privileges of the Sultans
Date: 10 Apr 92 13:38:02 MDT
Organization: Utah State University

In article <ku9ccbINN8gs@news.bbn.com>, saustin@bbn.com (Ling Khong) writes:
> While we are talking about the privileges of being a Sultan,
> does anyone remember the controversy over one of
> our previous Agongs)? Well, it seems that when this ex-
> Agong was still a Crown Prince in the sixties, he shot someone dead. The
> judge who convicted him was the Raja Azlan Shah (then a Judge but
> now our present Agong). However, that Crown Prince then
> received a royal pardon from his father, the then Sultan.
> Subsequently, his father stripped him of being the Crown Prince
> and put his younger brother in his place. However, just prior
> to his death, the old Sultan reinstated the his eldest son
> (that notorious ex-Crown Prince) and so this son finally
> became our Agong. When he was Agong, some of the other Heads
> of foreign governments refused to meet with him when they visited.
> Anyway, there was also this story going round the Royal Selangor 
> Golf Club that when he was Agong, he clubbed one of his caddies to death but
> the whole affair was hushed up.
> 
	While I was studying in Canada during that time, I came across
an article about banning him from visiting Canada and United Kingdom.
I was surprised to know Malaysians heard about this story.  I thought
such story will be censored by the government.
	Someone (guess who !) has been using British monarchy to justify
the existence of our Sultans.  However, the are A LOT differences between
our system and theirs.
	First of all, as pointed out by someone in the net, they have only
one and we have nine.
	Secondly, British monarchy has to conduct themselves properly.  Can you 
imagine Prince Charles being a murderer and get away with it ?
	The people of UK has a voice regarding the monarchy, whereas
we don't unless you want to be detained under ISA.
	Finally, the monarchy in UK brings in a lot of money through 
tourism.  You will be surprised to see all those people during the
changing of the guard in Buckingham Palace.
	I hope the educated citizens of Malaysia should not blindly
support their Sultans regardless of what they did.  I am in support
of UMNO to curb the priviledges of Sultans.  


Jack Teh
	





> Perhaps someone has the details of the story -- I remember
> reading about it in some of the international magazines when
> that Sultan finally became our Agong. Some of it later
> resurfaced when Sultan Azlan Shah (either the judge or prosecutor
> in that case) himself became the Agong subsequently.
> 
> 
> 	Ling
>
Newsgroups: soc.culture.asean
Subject: Re: A paradox?
From: chuah@elec.canterbury.ac.nz (DanC)
Date: 10 Apr 92 18:20:47 +1200
Organization: Electronic and Electrical Engineering Department, University of Canterbury, New Zealand.

In article <1992Apr9.015856.21228@leland.Stanford.EDU> rezal@leland.Stanford.EDU (Rezal Adzly Abdul Rahman) writes:

>I may not be a law student but as far as my knowledge of customs and
>federal laws is concern, the customs have a federal jurisdiction that
>overides the state laws.
>
>In other words, if the customs file in an application for prosecution of
>an individual, no state law can overrule the application for the state law
>falls below the federal law.

However, the sultans are above the law, ie they cannot be takeb to court
for any offence or civil action.  I suppose sultans that do not obey the
law are saying:  "I refuse to obey the law because I am above the law".
Tis a bit confusing, isn't it?

>>	A Muslim should live by the Islamic Laws; if a person refuses
>>to live by the Shariah Laws, then by a simple logic, that person is
>>not a Muslim.  That is all I have to say about the Kelantan state
>>government's attempt to implement the Shariah Laws in Kelantan.
>
>I didn't say anything about wanting or not wanting Islamic laws.
>
>I was just pointing out the hypocrisy of the Kelantanese government. So there.

To tell the non-Moslems to abide by the Moslem laws is an abuse of 
basic human right.  We have to right to freedom of religion.  If
we are forced to abide by Moslem laws, it effectively means we are
forbiden to pursue our own religions.  I am not against moslems
obeying the Moslem lays nor am I against the Moslem laws.  I feel
it is not right to force non-Moslems to obey them.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------
Dennis Chuah  | "Pencangkul Matahari"  email:   
EEE Canterbury|  chuah@stargate.elec.canterbury.ac.nz  (SUN) <- preffered
New Zealand   |  CHUAHDC@ELEC.canterbury.ac.nz         (VAX)
---------------- CHUAH-DC@opheus.elec.canterbury.ac.nz (NOVELL) ----------
(bugs+flames) > /dev/null
From: sbog6936@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (Bin Ong)
Subject: Re: More replies (long...)
Organization: University of Illinois at Urbana
Date: Thu, 9 Apr 1992 17:49:30 GMT


First, a disclaimer: I'm not a Malaysian, and my observations are strictly
an opinion; not meant to be racist, imflammatory, or discriminatory.

I would disagree that anyone staying back and making it to any of the 
local universitieshave higher IQs or are smarter than those who go
abroad on an OMS (old man's scholarship). And that those who go abroad
are not necessarily smarter nor less than those who don't.
And it's not always true that those abroad are necessarily from wealthier   
families. And those who do well when abroad (just an observation) usually
excel because they work their butt off. And I also believed that grades are
not a reflection of intelligence or ability to succeed in life. Yes, they
have good grades, and probably a leg up in careers. \do they know anything      
else? Sadly, an oft-made observation by Americans of Asians who do well  
is, just that, they do well in school, but never experienced anything else.
When they returned, they bring with them only a superficial experience of  
years spent in school, not of the culture they lived in. Of course, this        can also be said of Americans or anyone who lived in another culture without
participating or learnt from, and of that culture.

Bin Ong
Univ of Illinois
From: cbsli@acvax.inre.asu.edu (Ling)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.asean
Subject: Re: singaporean's "we" dilemma
Keywords: we
Date: 10 Apr 92 19:56:51 GMT
Reply-To: cbsli@acvax.inre.asu.edu
Organization: Arizona State University

In article <1992Apr10.183546.11490@bmerh2.bnr.ca>, zlim@bnr.ca (Zack Lim) writes...
> 
>|> In article <1992Apr9.201912.8247@leland.Stanford.EDU>, yongwee@leland.Stanford.EDU (Yong Wee Dennis Lee) writes:
>|> 
>|> > you S'poreans out there :  ARE "WE" S'POREANS PROUD OF OUR COUNTRY, despite all
>|> > its limitations and policies?  Let me be the first to answer that :"Yes"
>|> 
> 
>YESSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSS!!!!!!!!!!
>If reservist is abolish (dreaming...), You can bet I will be the first guy
>to catch the first plane home.

  If that's the only way to have you back, then I'd say have a good life
in Canana.  You know, instead of escaping from reservist you could have made
yourself so successful in your civilian life (eg. make > $15k/month) so that
MINDEF either would not call you up for reserve duties or give you a more
important appointment to make its every cent worth!
From: ST101019@brownvm.brown.edu
Newsgroups: soc.culture.asean
Subject: Zam Again!
Date: 10 Apr 1992 04:51:52 GMT
Organization: Brown University
NNTP-Posting-Host: brownvm.brown.edu
Disclaim1: Brown University accepts no responsibility for the
Disclaim2: contents of this article.  Please do not sue us!
News-Software: tBRUNO v0.9

Well, after Zam's most recent outbursts, I sent him personal mail
expressing my disapproval. He mailed back in his usual elegant
style (NOT!) and I am going to share a few snippets with the net.

First of all, he assumed that I was a quote stoopid Chinese unquote.
Yes, maybe my IQ is not as high as yours, as you can tell a person's
race from their anonymous userid!

He also told me
    chop all of Malaysia's trees down = instant G7 status.
Isn't this interesting?

He also made some references to "taking your father up your butt" and
other such pleasantries which I'm sure scanetters know he is capable
and willing to utter. So I shan't bore you by repeating them. Personally
though, the most interesting thing he said was in response to my comment
that Malaysia had a duty to the rest of the world to keep _some_ trees.
Our dear friend Zam said in response that *I* have a responsiblity to
keep him happy and asked me to give him my mother and sisters. Geez Zam,
I don't have a sister, and my mother is racist so would you be satisfied
with my 8 year old brother and my pet rabbit? I'm sorry, that is all the
ritual sacrifice I can give to the ZamGod who is going to save Malaysia.

I regret not having copies of the original charming letter so that
everyone can sample Zam's articulate and poetic style and not my own
feeble paraphrases. Net problem. Oh well.


SU-LYN SEAH '94  K'91
BOX 109 BROWN UNIVERSITY
PROVIDENCE RI 02912

3.1415926535897932384626433832795028841971693993751058209749445923078
164062821480865132823066470938446095 AND A PARTRIDGE IN A PEAR TREE!
Newsgroups: soc.culture.asean
From: azran@leland.Stanford.EDU (Azran Osman Rani)
Subject: Re: The ecosystem and the malays
Organization: DSG, Stanford University, CA 94305, USA
Date: Wed, 15 Apr 92 03:36:12 GMT

In article <1992Apr14.053706.9377@usenet.ins.cwru.edu> aq668@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Candy Lee) writes:
>

>
>A HEFTY fine should do the trick..if not, throw in some jail term.
>I agree with Azleena that rubbish is strewn everywhere in the
>streets, longkang etc etc. Some TIDAK BOLEH BUANG SAMPAH DISINI
>signs had a mountain of rubbish just under it. I think that
>educating the public is a good measure but using game theory,
>only threats will induce some actions. 
>

Fines will not induce action. The enforcement of these fines will!
We already have the $500 fines, but it is rarely enforced.

>Another thing...I just cannot believe those bas kilangs running
>all over with their smoke as thick as ^&*^&$%^(undescribable).

Your are probably referring to diesel exhaust. It looks the
nastiest because you can actually see the carbon pollutants
(the ugly black smog!) But looks can be deceiving. I would think that
regular gosoline exhaust fumes is worse, although it is relatively "clear".
Doesn't it have a higher Sulphur Dioxide and Nitrogen Dioxide content?
That would make it even more lethal than diesel exhaust fumes.


>Sometimes I wish I had the power to haul these dudes up and
>give the owners a hefty fine!!! Tis good that unleaded fuel are
>currently being introduced in Malaysia but GET THOSE BAS KILANGS
>and then we talk!!! BTW who has the power to haul up these people anyway?
>Does anyone know?

Nobody  has, because Malaysia does not have strict "smog" laws like they
do here in the States. Although implementing and enforcing these laws
will help ease the situation, I think more long term solutions need to
be found. Better public transportation could be one, especially for
big cities like Kuala Lumpur. Whatever happened to the Mass Rapid Transit
plans? Still tangled up in the bureaucracy? Figures. Didn't they
start organizing car pools in KL this year? This should be applauded.



>
>That's all for now...800am class tomorrow.
>-- 
>



"All idealism is falsehood in the face of necessity"
					- Nietzsche "Ecce Homo"



Azran "Hey, Molly's in Sports Illustrated!" Osman-Rani
:)


P/S - Am I the only one who gets annoyed when someone copies/references
another person's *long* article and then only adds a couple of sentences
of comment at the end. Don't they know how to delete unessential paragraphs
or even pages?
Newsgroups: soc.culture.asean
Subject: Re: Azizam - Oppressors and the Oppressed
From: chuah@elec.canterbury.ac.nz (DanC)
Date: 15 Apr 92 15:04:59 +1200
Organization: Electronic and Electrical Engineering Department, University of Canterbury, New Zealand.

In article <1992Apr14.195604.22817@athena.mit.edu> zam@athena.mit.edu (Nor Aazizam Mohd Aasif) writes:

>>While you criticise other people for making a racist remark, it is
>>alright for you to broadcast yours, isn't it?
>
>	A Flame uses to defend oneself against other's personal attack
>is a justifiable course of action, as far as I am concerned.  I do not
>flames without any provocation -- that has been my motto all these
>times.

What about the time you said, "For those of you who criticise the govt's
logging, I say go fuck yourself".  How can you be provoked into defending 
yourself by people criticising the govt's logging actions?

----------------------------------------------------------------------
Dennis Chuah, BE (Elec)    | "One Country,  | Supporting the Malaysian 
Te Whare Wananga O Waitaha | One People." - | Hockey team for gold in 
Aotearoa.                  | Maori proverb. | Barcelona.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
"Pencangkul Matahari" email: chuah@stargate.elec.canterbury.ac.nz


Newsgroups: soc.culture.asean
From: rtt1@cec1.wustl.edu (Rajan T Thampi)
Subject: First Among Equals (BBC World Service programme, please read)
Organization: Washington University, St. Louis Mo.
Date: Mon, 13 Apr 1992 19:28:58 GMT

I just saw this in the April issue of the programme guide, London Calling.  
If you have a shortwave radio, try and listen to this.  Just read on...

		First Among Equals (2 x 30 mins)

	Since the 1969 ethnic riots in Malaysia, one of the central aims of the govt. has been to redistribute wealth to the indigenous Malay people, the 
Bumiputras.  They have been granted economic, educational and employment 
benefits not available to the minority Chinese and Indian communities.  
(17th April)  

	The issue of affirmative action in the United States has risen to the 
top of the political agenda as many colleges and employers (in both public and 
private sectors) attempt to increase their intake of certain minorities, such asblacks and Hispanics. (24th April)  

	In 'First Among Equals' David Edmonds asks whether these different forms of positive discrimination are fair.  He examines the way in which they were  
introduced and discusses whether or not they have succeeded in narrowing 
economic inequalities and reducing  - or exacerbating - racial and caste
tensions.    

Programme times: Fridays from 17th April at 0730 GMT, repeat 1215, 1930 GMT.
 
===============================================================================
Rajan T Thampi --> Internet: rtt1@cec1.wustl.edu | Ngap Sayot! Land of the 
Lycoming College (Physics), Williamsport, PA.    | 	Hornbills.  
Washington University in St. Louis (EE),         | Liverpool F.C   
School of Engineering & Applied Science.         |   - the mighty reds forever!
N A M A S K A R A M  T O  O N E  A N D  A L L !  | Missing Bharat... :-(   
===============================================================================   
Newsgroups: soc.culture.asean
From: zam@athena.mit.edu (Nor Aazizam Mohd Aasif)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.asean
Subject: Re: To all you weenies....
Date: 16 Apr 92 05:32:59 GMT
Organization: Massachusetts Institute of Technology

In article <1992Apr16.045430.3178@news.iastate.edu> tabk2@isuvax.iastate.edu writes:
>In article <1992Apr14.193202.21518@athena.mit.edu>, zam@athena.mit.edu (Nor Aazizam Mohd Aasif) writes:

>Oh incidently,
>you have not answered my question in an earlier post:
>
>* what is the punishment under the Holy Kuran for using expletives? 


	I will recommend you a book to satisfy your curiousity: "The
Meaning of Glorious Koran" by Mohammed Marmaduke Pickthall.  Published
by A Mentor Book & New American Library.  New York & Ontario.

	Hope that helps...

===------ 
NorAazizam MohdAAsif	 
The white man made many promises to us but they never kept but one; they
promised to take our land and they took it.
                                                        Red Cloud
Newsgroups: soc.culture.asean
From: harish@csar.uucp (Harish Pillay)
Subject: Re: Zack's decison
Organization: CSA Research, Singapore.
Date: Fri, 10 Apr 1992 01:05:50 GMT

zlim@bnr.ca (Zack Lim) writes:

>Are you kidding!!! You want me to write to my MP/PM from Canada and 
>try to explain everything in words.  You think they will do something 
>about it after so many years (By the way, I have been away Since 1988).
>I wish you were my MP then.  I wish everything was that easy like you
>said.  Then, there wouldn't have been a problem in the first place.
>I am not here to beg for your sympathy or your consideration.  I am just 
>voicing out my frustration against reservist.

There is definitely no harm in sending your letter to Chok Tong in which
you explain the kind of BS you encountered during reservists training.  I'm
pretty sure Chok Tong will be surprised to see you letter and am positive
that you'l get a reply promptly (not just the acknowledgement).

>THANK YOU EVERYBODY FOR YOUR PATIENCE AND YOUR RESPONSE.

You're welcome, Zack.  Do not despair.

Enjoy.
--
Harish Pillay             harish%csar@uunet.uu.net
Singapore               "Psst!  Wanna buy some gum?"