HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: holzman@fnalno.fnal.gov (Daniel B. Holzman)
Subject: Eshun-Fun: Relax
Organization: Fermi National Accelerator Lab
Date: Thu, 1 Oct 1992 19:18:10 GMT
X-Posted-From: fnalno.fnal.gov
NNTP-Posting-Host: sol.ctr.columbia.edu

In article <BvAAK6.LDL@ddsw1.mcs.com>, eshin@ddsw1.mcs.com (Eshin-Fun) writes:
> And I suggest you go back to your studies of textbooks before you put much
> credence on newspaper horscopy

[snip]

> Hmmmmm..perhaps your urban influences have dulled your senses....
> Eshin-Fun
> 

Eshin, for someone who has complained in the past that there's too much flamage
in alt.pagan, you sure are rude.  Perhaps you should look to yourself in the
future before berating the rest of us.
-- 
Daniel B. Holzman                    | Eight Words the Witch's Rede Fufill:
HOLZMAN@FNAL.BITNET                  | An It Harm None, Do What You Will
HOLZMAN@FNALC.FNAL.GOV.INTERNET      |
                                     | All Acts of Love and Pleasure are
Love doesn't subtract,               | Her Rituals
   it multiplies    - Heinlein       |
                                     | Speak the Word.
Disclaimer:  Fermilab's far too large to have an opinion, let alone mine.
Newsgroups: alt.religion.sabaean
From: rcmolden@parmesan.cs.wisc.edu (Robertc. Moldenhauer)
Newsgroups: alt.religion.sabaean
Subject: Re: new to this group
Date: 29 Sep 92 22:48:31 GMT
Organization: University of Wisconsin, Madison -- Computer Sciences Dept.

In article <Bv9u1v.DuH@ucunix.san.uc.edu> minhaszt@ucunix.san.uc.edu (Zafar T Minhas) writes:
>hi, i am new to this group. i am not a sabean, but i would like to know
>if this is the same sabean group that is mentioned in the quran as one of
>the people of the book?
>
>thanks for the help.
>
>zafar minhas

No, it's another one of those "weird 'new age' groups" that seem to exist
in the dark netherworld of alt.  The real Sabaeaans like Bilqis their best
known queen and her lover Solomon are long dead.  The alt groups were created
to have fun, not to get serious.  Sci.archaeology or Soc.culture.arabic would
be the place to go if you want to talk about the early inhabitants of the 
Arabian penisula.
Newsgroups: alt.religion.sabaean,alt.pagan,alt.magick,alt.astrology
From: pciszek@nyx.cs.du.edu (Paul Ciszek)
Subject: Old Stars, New Stars  (was Re: HALLOW'EEN)
Organization: University of Denver, Dept. of Math & Comp. Sci.
Date: Fri, 2 Oct 92 00:47:29 GMT

eshin@ddsw1.mcs.com (Eshin-Fun) writes:

>In the year 2170 B.C. is the date at which the Pleiades really opened the
>spring season by their midnight culmination.

In which case, the culmination of the Pleiades is now about two months out of
synch with spring.  My point stands; stellar relationships with the seasons
that worked for the ancients won't work today.

>Unfortunately too many people have forgotten the stellar relationships that
>have influenced our societies throughout the world. Only now is science
>begining to make an effort with "Archeoastronomy" to recognize that "fact".

"Only now?"  Astronomy has always been recognized as the oldest science.
There is nothing new about using ancient records to reconstruct past super-
novae or metoric impacts.  Heck, how do you think they noticed the precession
of the equinoxes in the first place?

>Before "newspaper" horoscopy and "star war" sensationalism, farmers could
>recognize the stars and they worked the field, planted and harvested
>according to celestial observations that helped to grow their crops. Ask
>that of any farmer or a "Farmer's Almanac".

And once upon a time astrologers actually made observations and based their
divinations on stellar and planetary positions.  This practice declined,
and today they use data that is about two thousand years out of date; my
point was that it is possible for certain aspects of astrology to become
enshrined in tradition and then left behind by the equinox precession.  If
you continue to associate the culmination of the Pleiades with the vernal
equinox, you are no better than those newspaper astrologers-- but it sounds
like you know better.

>Hmmmmm..perhaps your urban influences have dulled your senses....

If you mean reading books has made me nearsighted, the answer is yes.  But
a good pair of glasses and a clear Colorado night give me a better view of
the stars than most people ever see.  Here, seeing the "dark" side of the
crescent moon illuminated by earthlight is the rule rather than the
exception.

BTW, a meteorite supposedly landed in Denver today.  I have yet to get the
details.  Does the person who owns the property it landed on get to keep it?

--
Paul Ciszek, pciszek@nyx.cs.du.edu | No nation was ever drunk when wine was
                                   | cheap.   -- Thomas Jefferson
Newsgroups: alt.religion.sabaean
From: bes@ddsw1.mcs.com (Bes)
Subject: Re: new to this group
Date: Mon, 28 Sep 1992 11:06:30 GMT
Organization: ddsw1.MCS.COM Contributor, Chicago IL
X-Newsreader: Tin 1.1 PL3

>>minhaszt@ucunix.san.uc.edu (Zafar T Minhas) writes:
: hi, i am new to this group. i am not a sabean, but i would like to know
: if this is the same sabean group that is mentioned in the quran as one of
: the people of the book?
: 
: thanks for the help.
: 
: zafar minhas<<

I believe it is exactly of the same convictions mentioned in the Qur'an,
several times begining with surah 2 [al-Baqarah];


Sabaeanism is a philosophical phenomena from which it seems that a lot of
other religious doctrines were either based upon or drew freely from it.
Thus the sudden hatred many have displayed to cover up their guilt.

Bes
  
Xref: sparky alt.religion.sabaean:33 alt.pagan:10412 talk.religion.newage:4506
From: rcmolden@parmesan.cs.wisc.edu (Robertc. Moldenhauer)
Newsgroups: alt.religion.sabaean,alt.pagan,talk.religion.newage
Subject: Re: new to this group
Date: 1 Oct 92 23:00:00 GMT
Organization: University of Wisconsin, Madison -- Computer Sciences Dept.


I have always been skeptical about "revived" ideas, because they tend to 
obfuscate the study of the originals.  I think the classic example is the 
modern "Druids" who are largely a 19th century invention.  How can yu possibly
recreate a part of a culture of a people that disappeared from the face of 
the earth over a millenium ago?  Nabateans, Babylonians, Sabaeaens, Hyxos,
Phonecians (debatably)/Punic, Moabites ..., the list is long ... played their
parts in civilisation and left the stage, reincorporated into other groups.
We do not know anything near enough to try to recreate a culture for them.
When I was in Oman this summer I saw several examples of "South Arabian Script"
was this the language of the Sabaeans?  WHo knows?  
What I seen in this group is a sycratistic tendancy, anything that's called
"new age" such as astrology hooked to the Sabaeans.  it's like Ethiopian 
folklore that trys to claim the Queen of SHeba for themselves, although their 
civilisation isn't old enough.  True, the dead can't sue, but I still don't
like to see their name abused.  
Xref: sparky alt.religion.sabaean:36 alt.pagan:10459 alt.magick:5037 alt.astrology:1935
From: karl@ddsw1.mcs.com (Karl Denninger)
Subject: Re: new to this group
Summary: Some discussion on this issue
Date: Sun, 4 Oct 1992 21:53:10 GMT
Organization: Macro Computer Solutions, Inc., Chicago, IL

In article <1992Oct1.230000.7072@cs.wisc.edu> rcmolden@parmesan.cs.wisc.edu (Robertc. Moldenhauer) writes:
>
>I have always been skeptical about "revived" ideas, because they tend to 
>obfuscate the study of the originals.  I think the classic example is the 
>modern "Druids" who are largely a 19th century invention.  How can yu possibly
>recreate a part of a culture of a people that disappeared from the face of 
>the earth over a millenium ago?  

There seems to be a misunderstanding here.  Sabaeans do not try to
anachronistically (sp?) re-create that which once existed.  Neither do, to
the best of my knowledge, most other faiths and philosophies.

The point is not to draw yourself back in PERSON to a time long since past.
It is "to bind back to" (the definition of religion) the principles which
guide and form the basis for a philosophy and belief system.

In that Sabaeanism is quite alive and well, and it is an evolving tradition.

>What I seen in this group is a sycratistic tendancy, anything that's called
>"new age" such as astrology hooked to the Sabaeans.  

Hooked to?  To acknowledge that the Sabaeans were astrologers is not to
"hook to" or abuse the basis of a tradition or belief.  In fact, the
attribution seems to be a good thing -- credit where due, no?

--
Karl Denninger (karl@ddsw1.MCS.COM, <well-connected>!ddsw1!karl)
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Newsgroups: alt.religion.sabaean,alt.pagan,alt.magick,alt.astrology
From: pciszek@nyx.cs.du.edu (Paul Ciszek)
Subject: Re: HALLOW'EEN
Organization: University of Denver, Dept. of Math & Comp. Sci.
Date: Mon, 28 Sep 92 04:44:34 GMT

Hmmmm.  I don't think this quite holds up.  2,000 years ago, the Pliedean(?)
season would have fallen a month (eariler or later?  I can never remember
which), relative to the seasons.  For those who would argue that the precession
of the equinoxes is much to slow to leave traditions in the lurch, I suggest
that you compare the brithdates in any newspaper horoscope column to the
actual position of the sun.
--
Paul Ciszek, pciszek@nyx.cs.du.edu | No nation was ever drunk when wine was
                                   | cheap.   -- Thomas Jefferson
Newsgroups: alt.religion.sabaean
From: arjay@cnplss5.cnps.philips.nl (R.J. Kimmel)
Subject: Re: new to this group
Organization: Philips Centre For Technology, Eindhoven
Date: Wed, 30 Sep 1992 09:19:58 GMT

rcmolden@parmesan.cs.wisc.edu (Robertc. Moldenhauer) writes:


>No, it's another one of those "weird 'new age' groups" that seem to exist

Excuse me, but 'weird' is a relative term but from your point of view could
possible be cosidered accurate, however calling Sabaeans a 'new age group'
is both inaccurate and ill informed.  Please do a bit more research before
spreading furhter erroneous information.

>in the dark netherworld of alt.  The real Sabaeaans like Bilqis their best
>known queen and her lover Solomon are long dead.  The alt groups were created
>to have fun, not to get serious.  Sci.archaeology or Soc.culture.arabic would
>be the place to go if you want to talk about the early inhabitants of the 
>Arabian penisula.

This is akin to saying the real Christians like John and Paul are long
dead and discussions regarding any of the christian related religions
should be forwarded to your above mentioned newsgroups rather than their
appropriate alt.religion.newsgroup.

R. J. Kimmel

Xref: sparky alt.religion.sabaean:25 alt.pagan:10285 alt.magick:4963 alt.astrology:1915
From: eshin@ddsw1.mcs.com (Eshin-Fun)
Newsgroups: alt.religion.sabaean,alt.pagan,alt.magick,alt.astrology
Subject: Re: HALLOW'EEN
Date: 30 Sep 92 15:37:17 GMT
Organization: ddsw1.MCS.COM Contributor, Chicago IL
X-Newsreader: Tin 1.1 PL3


>>lilleyc@cs.man.ac.uk (Chris Lilley) writes in his follow up:

>>responses have been distributed to the following newsgroups

      alt.sabean<<<


If YOU don't have the BALLS to accept criticism do us all the courtesy not
to write anything at all!

If you are so egregious and rude that you trying to be "qute" by having to make 
specific distribution at least spell it right or know what the hell you are
writing first. e.g. alt.sabean when it should have been
alt.religion.sabaean.

By doing this infantile bullshit, you not only betray all of us here on the
net but make a goddamed fool of yourself, as well as everyone else!


Not everyone here has the same opinion. But at least they have the guts to
accept and rebuttal any differences. To surreptitiously stick a bogus tag to
your reply misdirects any one's answer into oblivion!

Obviously I can find you out. And my reply >WILL< be forthcoming inspite of
you. But for others that may not be so familiar with clandestine juvenile
delinquency its just not ETHICAL!! Jerk!

It seems that you can dish it out but can't stand taking it!

You unmitigated miniscule insect why don't you restrict your asshole tactics
to your fellow self righteous christian friends instead of polluting the net
with audacious Machiavellian despotism!!!

Eshin-Fun
Newsgroups: alt.religion.sabaean
From: eshin@ddsw1.mcs.com (Eshin-Fun)
Subject: Re: Star Sirius
Date: Mon, 28 Sep 1992 10:16:41 GMT
Organization: ddsw1.MCS.COM Contributor, Chicago IL
X-Newsreader: Tin 1.1 PL3

>>mt@space.mit.edu (Mary Terhune) writes:
: I am new to this group...can any of
: you tell me what you know about the 
: Star Sirius.....for some reason I feel
: very connected to it and the name.
: 
: Thanks...
: 
: Mary<<<

There is a lot to know. A great deal is found in a book called Star Names by
richard Hinkley  allen. Though there are other sources this book is usually
found in your local planetarium gift shop.

To quote it: "Sirius, the Dog-star written Syrius...."
".....Its risings and settings were regularly tabulated in Chaldea about 300
B.C......It is the only star known to us with absolute certitude in the
Egyptian records --its hierogliph, a dog, often appearing on the mounuments
and temple walls throughout the Nile country. Its worship , chiefly in the
north, perhaps, did not commence till about 3285 B.C. when the heliacal
rising at the summer solstice marked Egypt's New Year and the begining of
the inundation, although precession has now carried this rising to the 10th
of August."  [the edition quoted is 1963 unabridged of first publication
1899 under its former title Star-Names and their meanings.]

References to Egypt are, of course, the most frequent. But throughout the
world it seems to have also some meaning.

Eshin-Fun



: 
Newsgroups: alt.religion.sabaean,alt.pagan,talk.religion.newage
From: karl@ddsw1.mcs.com (Karl Denninger)
Subject: Re: new to this group
Summary: The reason some find Sabaeanism "weird" or "strange"
Date: Thu, 1 Oct 1992 01:08:28 GMT
Organization: Macro Computer Solutions, Inc., Chicago, IL

In article <1992Sep29.224831.12168@cs.wisc.edu> rcmolden@parmesan.cs.wisc.edu (Robertc. Moldenhauer) writes:
>In article <Bv9u1v.DuH@ucunix.san.uc.edu> minhaszt@ucunix.san.uc.edu (Zafar T Minhas) writes:
>>hi, i am new to this group. i am not a sabean, but i would like to know
>>if this is the same sabean group that is mentioned in the quran as one of
>>the people of the book?
>
>No, it's another one of those "weird 'new age' groups" that seem to exist
>in the dark netherworld of alt.  

Alt is neither a netherworld nor a shining example of anything.  

Alt.religion.sabaean is a place to discuss Sabaean principles, without the
normal pestilence that comes from people who insist on branding that which
they neither understand nor wish to "weird", "new age", or any one of
another perjoratives.

>The real Sabaeaans like Bilqis their best
>known queen and her lover Solomon are long dead.  

So is what some claim was "Jesus Christ", "Moses", "Mohammed", the real
"Budda" and the founders of most other philosophies and religions (including
"Dianetics").  So what is your point?  The fact is that philosophy frequently 
survives the founders if it has the slightest amount of merit -- and
frequently when it does not.

Religion and spirituality, like fine wine, is to be experienced, not just 
discussed.  One can never do justice to a fine bottle of wine with discussion
or dialogue.  It is only through the experience of becoming involved, by 
sensing with one's own body, mind and soul, does one discover the true essense
of a religious path, a philosophy or a fine bottle of wine.  And like fine 
wines, it is unwise to be perjorative of that which one has not tasted, lest
one miss out on the experience of a lifetime.

All of this is lost on those whose only experience is a bottle of Mad Dog 
20-20 until they wish to expand their horizons.

>The alt groups were created
>to have fun, not to get serious.  Sci.archaeology or Soc.culture.arabic would
>be the place to go if you want to talk about the early inhabitants of the 
>Arabian penisula.

That is but one place to go read such things.  Alt.religion.sabaean is yet
another.

--
Karl Denninger (karl@ddsw1.MCS.COM, <well-connected>!ddsw1!karl)
Data Line: [+1 312 248-0900] Anon. arch. (nuucp) 00:00-06:00 C[SD]T
Request file: /u/public/sources/DIRECTORY/README for instructions
Newsgroups: alt.religion.sabaean,alt.pagan,alt.magick,alt.astrology
From: karl@ddsw1.mcs.com (Karl Denninger)
Subject: Re: HALLOW'EEN
Summary: More comment on this
Date: Thu, 1 Oct 1992 00:50:11 GMT
Organization: Macro Computer Solutions, Inc., Chicago, IL

In article <BvEE25.6J8@ddsw1.mcs.com> eshin@ddsw1.mcs.com (Eshin-Fun) writes:
>
>>>lilleyc@cs.man.ac.uk (Chris Lilley) writes in his follow up:
>
>>>responses have been distributed to the following newsgroups
>
>      alt.sabean<<<
>
>
>If YOU don't have the BALLS to accept criticism do us all the courtesy not
>to write anything at all!

More to the point is that Chris set followups to an INVALID group.  The
correct group is alt.religion.sabaean.

If you're going to set a follow-up line, at least do it to a place where the
messages have somewhere to go!

--
Karl Denninger (karl@ddsw1.MCS.COM, <well-connected>!ddsw1!karl)
Data Line: [+1 312 248-0900] Anon. arch. (nuucp) 00:00-06:00 C[SD]T
Request file: /u/public/sources/DIRECTORY/README for instructions
Newsgroups: alt.religion.sabaean
From: ksjwr@acad3.alaska.edu (REDELSS JOHN W)
Subject: Re: new to this group
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41.UAC
Organization: University of Alaska - Fairbanks
Date: Mon, 5 Oct 1992 06:36:00 GMT

>>in the dark netherworld of alt.  The real Sabaeaans like Bilqis their best
>>known queen and her lover Solomon are long dead.  The alt groups were created
>>to have fun, not to get serious.  Sci.archaeology or Soc.culture.arabic would
>>be the place to go if you want to talk about the early inhabitants of the 
>>Arabian penisula.
> 
>This is akin to saying the real Christians like John and Paul are long
>dead and discussions regarding any of the christian related religions
>should be forwarded to your above mentioned newsgroups rather than their
>appropriate alt.religion.newsgroup.




You may have something here.  Who actually believes that the religion practiced
by modern Christians is even remotely similar to the Christianity of John and
Paul?  I don't.  If John or Paul were alive today, they would be Mormons
practicing a faith more distinct from so-called "Christianity" than either is
from Sabaeanism.  But that is just my opinion.

************ All my opinions are tentative pending further data. ************

> 
>R. J. Kimmel
>
From: jerry@lds-az.loral.com (J Barbera)
Newsgroups: alt.religion.scientology
Subject: Re: Other Services.
Date: 30 Sep 92 11:15:44 GMT
Organization: Loral Defense Systems Arizona

In article <GISLE.92Sep30091757@gyda.ifi.uio.no> gisle@ifi.uio.no (Gisle Hannemyr) writes:
>In article <1992Sep28.091749.15731@lds-az.loral.com> jerry@lds-az.loral.com (J Barbera) writes:
>
>> Hubbard Key to Life Course.  1990 saw the long-awaited release of the
>> monumental Hubbard Key to Life Course.  Years in preparation, the final
>> course materials consist of 13 illustrated books, with a total of 2,200
>> pages and almost 4,000 paintings, illustrations and photographs.
>
>4,000 pictures in 2,200 pages, hmmm...
>
>This must be targeted especially for those who has gone through
>the famous Church of Scientology IQ enhancement program, yes?

Keep in mind that these are larger than average pages.

The course seems to have been intended to be used by people of various
literacy levels ... especially people who have errors in their basic
education.

Also, the illustrations are really neat.  I have some full-color, glossy
promo which is actually quite impressive.
                     
Newsgroups: alt.religion.scientology
From: chrisc@county.lmt.mn.org (Chris Cain)
Subject: Re: E-Meter
Organization: LaserMaster R&D, Minneapolis, MN  USA
Date: Fri, 25 Sep 1992 21:15:07 GMT

>        Could anybody tell me what exactly an E-meter does? What exactly 
>        does it meter?  What scientific principles is it based on?  Are 
>        people involved in the Church of Scientology allowed to talk
>        about it?  If not, could anybody out there with a scientific
>        or engineering background who is not involved in the Church
>        tell me what's inside an E-Meter?

An E-Meter is a sensitive supressed zero ohm-meter.



Newsgroups: alt.religion.scientology
From: jerry@lds-az.loral.com (J Barbera)
Subject: Scn Books.
Organization: Loral Defense Systems Arizona
Date: Tue, 6 Oct 1992 02:04:50 GMT

Basic Scientology Books
 
   Scientology: The Fundamentals of Thought -- Improve life an make a better
world with this easy-to-read book that lays out the fundamental truths about
life and thought.  No such knowledge has ever before existed, and no such
results have ever before been attainable as those which can be reached by
the use of this knowledge.  Equipped with this book alone, one could perform
seeming miracles in changing the states of health, ability and intelligence
of people.  This is how life works.  This is how you change men, women and
children for the better, and attain greater personal freedom.
 
   A New Slant on Life -- Have you ever asked yourself who am I?  What am I?
This book of articles by L. Ron Hubbard answers these all too common
questions.  This is knowledge one can use every day -- for a new, more
confident and happier slant on life!
 
   The Problems of Work -- Work plays a big part in the game of life.  Do you
really enjoy your work?  Are you certain of your job security?  Would you
like the increased personal satisfaction of doing your work well?  This is
the book that shows exactly how to achieve these things and more.  The game
of life -- and within it, the game of work -- can be enjoyable and rewarding.
 
   Scientology 0-8: The Book of Basics -- What is life?  Did you know an
individual can create space, energy and time?  Here are the basics of life
itself, and the secrets of becoming cause over any area of your life.
Discover how you can use the data in this book to achieve your goals.
Newsgroups: alt.religion.scientology
From: scg@mentor.cc.purdue.edu (Scott Goehring)
Subject: Re: Creed.
Reply-To: scg@mentor.cc.purdue.edu
Organization: Society for the Prevention of National Mudding Associations
	<1992Sep26.131245.3402@memstvx1.memst.edu>
Date: Mon, 28 Sep 1992 15:10:31 GMT

isds11990012@memstvx1.memst.edu writes:

>Many of these drugs are dangerous.  I think everyone has already
>heard about the dangers of Prozac, but what you probably didn't hear
>is that Eli Lilly, Prozacs manufacturer plead guilty to several
>counts of withholding evidence from the FDA.

As I recall, the charges you mention here deal not with Prozac but
with an different drug, one which, as I recall, was/is used to treat
arthritis and can cause birth defects.  Hardly relevant.

--
There's a lot of overweight people in the world, many are arguably
food-addicts.  Shall we outlaw chocolate cake?
		-- Mike Percy (grimlok@hubcap.clemson.edu), alt.censorship
Newsgroups: alt.religion.scientology