HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: mjl-b@minster.york.ac.uk
Newsgroups: comp.sys.atari.st.tech
Subject: Re: Falcon BUS..
Date: 6 Nov 92 14:32:43 GMT
Reply-To: mjl-b@minster.york.ac.uk (Mathew Lodge)
Organization: Department of Computer Science, University of York, England

In article <mpnolan.720881057@unix1.tcd.ie> mpnolan@unix1.tcd.ie (Mark Patrick Nolan) writes:
>I believe that Atari have at last got their act together...
>
>Q: As the Falcon has (from what I've heard) one bus (32),
>how will the custom chips (DSP,DMA Sound,Blitter,H-Scrolling,..)
>interact, and will the system lose preformance as a result?

It has ever been the case that the CPU must stall when DMA is taking place.
The DMA chip grabs the bus for a short time and does a block transfer (if I
remember correctly, the block size is 16 words for the ST's DMA transfers --
it may have changed for the TT / Falcon). During this time, the 68k
has to wait until the bus is released.

The video system in the ST was designed so that processor access and video
shifter access are interleaved. On the original ST, the memory subsytem runs
at 16MHz, so that processor (8MHz) and video access can be interleaved. It's
a bit more complicated than this (we had the discussion some months ago, and
I forget the exact details -- sorry). Horizontal scrolling is simply some
extra logic in the shifter and has a minimal performance penalty (you need
one extra memory access at the end of a line).

>Surely the DSP has it's own bus, as it does have 56k of it's own 
>memory!?

The DSP is a member of the Motorola 56k series -- it has 96K of static RAM.
The DSP has its own data and address buses, independent of the 68k address
and data buses. I don't know how the DSP and 68K communicate, but I would
guess that there's some sort of shared memory scheme (but that is just *my
guess*)

>						Thanks,  Mark Nolan

Mat

| Mathew Lodge                      | "I don't care how many times they go    |
| mjl-b@minster.york.ac.uk          |  up-tiddly-up-up. They're still gits."  |
| Langwith College, Uni of York, UK |  -- Blackadder Goes Forth               |
From: marc@targon.UUCP (Marc Dierikx)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.atari.st.tech
Subject: Re: Falcon BUS..
Keywords: dma
Date: 12 Nov 92 14:18:49 GMT
Followup-To: comp.sys.atari.st.tech
Organization: Siemens Nixdorf Infosyst.,PO 29, 4130 EA Vianen, Netherlands.

> In <1992Nov11.203921.11068@rmece49.upr.clu.edu>, Ricardo Hernandez writes:
> 
>  So the Falcon can't do any processing when a DMA is taking place?
> 
As far as I know (I've written an SLM804 driver lately) the CPU
in an ST was free to do anything while dma transfer was taking place.
The problem seems to be that drivers often use that freedom to make
the processor poll the dma interrupt status all the time instead of
just being interrupted when the dma transfer is complete.

Marc

-----------------			   EARTH          
Marc Dierikx                           smog  |   bricks  
marc@targon.UUCP                   AIR  --  mud  --  FIRE
dierikx.via@sni.de                soda water |   tequila
dierikx.via@sni-usa.com                    WATER
Newsgroups: comp.sys.atari.st.tech
From: raist@rmece02.upr.clu.edu (Ricardo Hernandez)
Subject: Re: 16-bit RAM Access on Falcon ?
Organization: UPR-Mayaguez--ASEL Lab
Date: Wed, 11 Nov 1992 20:34:50 GMT

In article <1992Nov6.092805.20747@news.uni-stuttgart.de>, CASTAN@bonnie.physik.uni-stuttgart.de () writes:
|> In <rogeraw.25.720877023@dhhalden.no> rogeraw@dhhalden.no writes:
|> 
|> > In article <1992Nov1.183817.15596@rhrk.uni-kl.de> peter@rhrk.uni-kl.de (Gunter Bitz) writes:
|> > >From: peter@rhrk.uni-kl.de (Gunter Bitz)
|> > >Subject: Re: 16-bit RAM Access on Falcon ?
|> > >Date: 1 Nov 92 18:38:17 GMT
|> > >anderss@colargol (Anders Skar) writes:
|> > >
|> > >>  Is it true that the Falcon030 only has 16 bit RAM Access ?
|> > >
|> > >Ok. My answer is simply :  YES !
|> > >To be more precise the 68030 has only 16 bit access while the video hardware
|> > >has full 32 bit access.
|> > >Before you start flaming now: Has anyone of you ever tested this ?
|> > >I have !
|> > >
|> > >cu
|> > > Gunter
|> > 
|> > 
|> > Where do you have it from????????????????????  Falcon is a FULL 32 bit 
|> > machine.  
|> > 
|> > If somebody thinks this is not true,  so email me ....  
|> > 
|> > 
|> > R.A.W
|> 
|> The truth is: the F 030 has a internal RAM port with 16 data and 24 address
|> pins. (i've seen the specs and I've seen the layout)
|> 
|> On the other hand a german magazine has tested, that the processor accesses
|> the RAM as if it was a 32 bit memory.
|> 
|> If the second statement is true: are they multiplexing?
|> 
|> Gerd
|> 

   Well, if this is true, then the Falcon is doing some kind of
multiplexing.... sounds like a "68030SX" type of performance.

|> 
|> 
|> ##############################################################################
|> internet: CASTAN@bonnie.physik.uni-stuttgart.de
|> ##############################################################################
|> Real Name:          # Einem Land, dessen Sprache das Wort "Kultur - Beutel"
|> Gerd Castan         # hervorgebracht hat, ist nicht zu trauen.
|> Hoehbergstr. 16     #                 (Luisa Francia)
|> D-7000 Stuttgart 60 #
|> 

- Raist

Newsgroups: comp.sys.atari.st.tech
From: davem@extro.ucc.su.OZ.AU (David Monro)
Subject: External FDD connector, hard drives
Organization: Sydney University Computing Service, Sydney, NSW, Australia
Date: Fri, 6 Nov 1992 14:51:32 GMT

Does anybody know where I can get a 14pin connector for the external
floppy on a 1040STfm? (Preferably in OZ or mail order...)

These next bits must be FAQ, but I don't know where the FAQ is :(

1. What happens if I plug a 1.44M floppy drive in? I assume it will
	behave as a 720k. Is there an easy way to get a 1.44 recognized?
	(Like a new bios?)
2. What adapters exist for MFM and IDE drives, how much do they cost
(again pref in OZ) etc.

Please reply by email, and cc to 9107373@zeppo.cs.su.oz.au as my account
may die...

	Thanks

-- 
David Monro
e-mail: davem@extro.ucc.su.OZ.AU
-- 
David Monro
e-mail: davem@extro.ucc.su.OZ.AU
Newsgroups: comp.sys.atari.st.tech
From: sanders@sci.kun.nl (Sander Stoks)
Subject: Re: Co-operating processors on the Falcon
Organization: University of Nijmegen, The Netherlands
Date: Fri, 13 Nov 1992 10:56:37 GMT

In <721574179.11857@minster.york.ac.uk> andrew@minster.york.ac.uk writes:

>If the Falcon is multitasking how will the operating system
>ensure that memory access by the DSP are safe?  Will programs running in the
>DSP get swapped in and out or is it used like a 'dumb' peripheral which 
>processes have to contend for?  I wonder how machines like the NeXT do it?

>Will this also mean that two assemblers are needed too?  One which
>programs for the 68030 CPU are written/compiled and one which is used for
>the 56001 DSP.  Writing programs for the Falcon will be complicated.  First
>I'd write a program in C for the CPU and then one for the DSP(?) and somehow
>link the two so that the DSP program is downloaded into the DSP where it is
>initiated by the main program?

>I'm sorry if this all sounds a little naive but I've never explored co-
>processor systems but when I get my Falcon I'll have to.

I understood that the DSP was accessible via OS calls. That way it is
simple to load a code to the DSP, or to execute it. And it's much
cleaner. I think it would be comparable to the way the keyboard
processer in STs can be used (had anybody actually tried to? (not that
those 128 bytes(?) allow for serious things, but just for fun)).

>-Andrew.

>P.S.
>Will it be possible to perform JPEG conversions on the Falcon using the DSP
>so that they are 'super' fast?  The conversion programm will obviously have
>to read and write from main memory which is where my question about security
>on memory access comes in for multiprocessing systems.

I've heard there will be an OS call to do this, using the DSP. This is
of course VERY stalwart.

>---------------

> Andrew Hague - Researching Computer Aided Learning & On-Line Lectures.
> Department of Computer Science.
> University of York,			"To get that all over tan stand
> YORK.					 still at the north pole during
> Y01 5DD				 the summer." A. Hague 6-Nov-92
> Tel: (+44/0)904 432762

> E-MAIL: andrew@minster.york.ac.uk 

Sander SToks
sanders@sci.kun.nl
From: gs32+@andrew.cmu.edu (Geoffrey Spear)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.atari.st.tech
Subject: Re: Checking if the printer is ready for input...?
Date: 8 Nov 92 07:01:28 GMT
Article-I.D.: andrew.YezITce00aw4Mi=kQq
	<hjv.721232672@groucho.phil.ruu.nl>
Organization: Freshman, CIT general, Carnegie Mellon, Pittsburgh, PA


	But, if you're using a print spooler, it shouldn't matter if the
printer is on or off; it should always be ready to print.  
-----------------------------------
Geoff Spear
Carnegie Mellon University
Electrical and Computer Engineering
Class of '96 (I hope...)
-----------------------------------
"Love may be a matter of chemistry, but sex is all physics."
From: mbaffoni@skat.usc.edu (Michael Baffoni)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.atari.st.tech
Subject: Re: My problems with MiNT
Date: 12 Nov 1992 13:25:51 -0800
Organization: University of Southern California, Los Angeles, CA
NNTP-Posting-Host: skat.usc.edu

In article <1992Nov12.074835.22639@elroy.jpl.nasa.gov> hyc@hanauma.jpl.nasa.gov (Howard Chu) writes:
>In article <1dn9q7INNk52@aludra.usc.edu> baffoni@aludra.usc.edu (Juxtaposer) writes:
[My errors deleted]
>>	So does anyone know why I am getting all these failed mallocs?
>
[Howard's explanation of Mxalloc delted]
>the regular TOS Malloc routine, and that usually succeeds. Likewise for
>the Bconmap failure, that call also only exists on new TOS. (Of course, if
>you're actually running on a TT or with TOS 2.06 or 3.06, then I'd guess
>the failures are genuine... You didn't specify what machine you have.)

	As it happens I am running this on a TT with TOS 3.06.  Sorry, I have 
been posting about it quite a bit, I keep forgetting how hard it is to mentally
link posts together.  

	With just MiNT loaded, (no control panels, or anything) I should be 
able to run, from the desktop, one .prg, right?  I can't unless I autoboot a
.prg first (using the autoboot option in Install Applications - I have not been
able to successfully INIT=TCSH.ttp at all)...well, I haven't tried the autoboot
thing with anything but Connect but I don't see that that should make much 
difference...I'll try another .prg just in case.  However, once I have quit the
autobooted program, I notice that I get malloc:outofmemory every time I open a 
window, like looking at c: or d:, but it works ok anyway (I can read the 
directory, etc.).  In fact, I get malloc errors whenever I open a window within
CoNnect. :(

	I'm at a loss.  

	BTW, I haven't heard a word from Eric Smith.  I guess he's still 
settling in at Sunnyvale. :)  Well, hopefully I can get some help from him
soon if someone here on the net doesn't fix my problems first.  

>-- 
>  -- Howard Chu @ Jet Propulsion Laboratory, Pasadena, CA
>
>All true wisdom is conveyed in one-line witticisms.

-Mike
Newsgroups: comp.sys.atari.st.tech
From: peter@rhrk.uni-kl.de (Gunter Bitz)
Subject: Re: 16-bit RAM Access on Falcon ?
Organization: University of Kaiserslautern, Germany
Distribution: eunet
Date: Wed, 11 Nov 1992 20:17:15 GMT

glens@natinst.com (Glen Sescila) writes:

>>
>>The result was that filling the same amount of memory with longwords is a bit
>>faster than filling with words, but not twice as fast as it should be on a
>>r e a l   32 bit machine. I'm sorry about that

>	Are you sure your data started on a longword boundry?  If it wasn't,
>that would explain why it was not twice as fast.



Of course it did !!!!
Newsgroups: comp.sys.atari.st.tech
From: paetau@mits.mdata.fi (Rasmus Paetau)
Subject: Re: 16-bit RAM Access on Falcon ?
Organization: Microdata Oy, Helsinki, Finland
Distribution: eunet
Date: Sun, 8 Nov 1992 19:42:26 GMT

In article <1992Nov8.132805.1903@rhrk.uni-kl.de> peter@rhrk.uni-kl.de (Gunter Bitz) writes:
>>>
>>>>  Is it true that the Falcon030 only has 16 bit RAM Access ?
>>>
>>>Ok. My answer is simply :  YES !
>
>>Excuse me, but where did you get that from? Sam Tramiel stated in the
>>GEnie conference a long time ago that it has a 32-bit bus. Also,
>>somebody tested Falcon with QIndex and got 471% for the CPU memory
>>test, compared to a normal ST. I don't see how this could be possible
>>with a 16-bit bus. So please tell me (us) where this information came
>>from?
>
>I don't know what Qindex does, but I testet the following:
>A short loop (which fits completely in the processor cache) like that:
>ll:
>	move.w	d0,(a0)+
>	dbf	d7,ll
>and another like
>ll:
>	move.l	d0,(a0)+
>	dbf	d7,ll
>
>The result was that filling the same amount of memory with longwords is a bit
>faster than filling with words, but not twice as fast as it should be on a
>r e a l   32 bit machine. I'm sorry about that

I'm no assembler guru, but doesn't the move.l instruction take longer
time to execute than move.w? If it does then wouldn't that explain why
it isn't twice as fast? Just correct me if I'm wrong.

>I also know that Atari states that the Falcon is a real 32 bit computer.
>I also asked a few people at the Duesseldorf Atari Messe and they told me the 
>same stuff. My opinion is that Atari tries the same way as Apple with their
>'small' Macintosh.
>Anyway most of the 'Users' don't recognize a difference between 
>a 16 or 32 bit bus.

That would be a dirty trick, somebody is bound to discorver such a
trick and then Atari would certainly get a not-so-nice reputation. I
hope they aren't lying about anything.

>Perhaps somebody might try the same as I did and report to this group !
>
>But anyway even with this small bus the Falcon is a interesting computer
>and I personally will buy one anyway !

I will definitely re-consider purchasing a Falcon if it does have a
16-bit bus.

>cu 
>  Gunter
>

--
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
| Rasmus Paetau (paetau@mits.mdata.fi) | Waiting for the Atari Falcon |
-----------------------------------------------------------------------

Newsgroups: comp.sys.atari.st.tech
From: CASTAN@bonnie.physik.uni-stuttgart.de ()
Subject: Re: 16-bit RAM Access on Falcon ?
Organization: Physics Dept, University of Stuttgart, FRG
Date: Fri, 6 Nov 1992 09:28:05 GMT
X-News-Reader: VMS NEWS 1.24

In <rogeraw.25.720877023@dhhalden.no> rogeraw@dhhalden.no writes:

> In article <1992Nov1.183817.15596@rhrk.uni-kl.de> peter@rhrk.uni-kl.de (Gunter Bitz) writes:
> >From: peter@rhrk.uni-kl.de (Gunter Bitz)
> >Subject: Re: 16-bit RAM Access on Falcon ?
> >Date: 1 Nov 92 18:38:17 GMT
> >anderss@colargol (Anders Skar) writes:
> >
> >>  Is it true that the Falcon030 only has 16 bit RAM Access ?
> >
> >Ok. My answer is simply :  YES !
> >To be more precise the 68030 has only 16 bit access while the video hardware
> >has full 32 bit access.
> >Before you start flaming now: Has anyone of you ever tested this ?
> >I have !
> >
> >cu
> > Gunter
> 
> 
> Where do you have it from????????????????????  Falcon is a FULL 32 bit 
> machine.  
> 
> If somebody thinks this is not true,  so email me ....  
> 
> 
> R.A.W

The truth is: the F 030 has a internal RAM port with 16 data and 24 address
pins. (i've seen the specs and I've seen the layout)

On the other hand a german magazine has tested, that the processor accesses
the RAM as if it was a 32 bit memory.

If the second statement is true: are they multiplexing?

Gerd




##############################################################################
internet: CASTAN@bonnie.physik.uni-stuttgart.de
##############################################################################
Real Name:          # Einem Land, dessen Sprache das Wort "Kultur - Beutel"
Gerd Castan         # hervorgebracht hat, ist nicht zu trauen.
Hoehbergstr. 16     #                 (Luisa Francia)
D-7000 Stuttgart 60 #

Newsgroups: comp.sys.atari.st.tech
From: hutch@bellman.lanl.gov (John Hutchinson)
Subject: Falcon sound
Reply-To: hutch@bellman.lanl.gov
Organization: Los Alamos National Laboratory
Date: Tue, 10 Nov 1992 15:08:09 GMT


OK, I don't have a Falcon yet (I'm in good company, eh?) but I am interested
in its sound capabilities, particularly for arcade game support.  If one
wished to incorporate some really good sound effects and/or music when writing
a program that would support the Falcon's DSP, what formats would be best? 
Sampled sounds using something like ST Replay or the Falcon's own D2D capability
or something else?  Wouldn't sampled sounds require a lot of disk space?  What
other options should be considered?

Sorry for the naivete, but I know nada about sound & musice (obviously). :)

Thanks,
---

___________________________ John "HUTCH" Hutchinson _________________________
_________________ Fair Dinkum Technologies     Member - IAAD  _______________
________________ "No worries, mate... it's from Fair Dinkum!" _______________
____________ email: hutch@bellman.lanl.gov   GEnie: FAIR-DINKUM _____________


Newsgroups: comp.sys.atari.st.tech
From: richard@op.ph.ic.ac.uk (Richard Syratt )
Subject:  Re: Cross Compiling Sozobon 2.0
Keywords: hash function
Organization: Imperial College, London University
Date: Fri, 6 Nov 1992 10:14:57 GMT
X-Posted-From: op.ph.ic.ac.uk
NNTP-Posting-Host: sol.ctr.columbia.edu

In article <567@muller.loria.fr>, eker@loria.crin.fr (Steven Eker) writes:
|> In article <1992Nov3.140438.19093@news.lrz-muenchen.de>, HUSFELD@usmv01.usm.uni-muenchen.de (Husfeld, Dirk) writes:
|> |> In <1992Nov2.133525.7992@sol.ctr.columbia.edu> richard@op.ph.ic.ac.uk writes:
|> 
|> [discussion of what hashing is supposed to be deleted]
|> |> > I've spotted that this [deleted] routine only uses the 1st to fifth
|> |> > letters of the name ...
|> 
|> Actually 1st -> 4th letters.
Well if you really want to be fussy it's 2nd letter -> 5th letter :-}
|>  
|> |> > ... in fact the routine only seems to return hash values
|> |> > of 46,61,62,63 whatever is passed through to it when it u
|> 
|> This is a truly _awful_ hash function; simply ORing and shifting is
|> going to produce a heavy bias towards hash values with lots of ones -
|> especially in the more significant bits:
|> 46=%101110, 61=%111101, 62=%111110, 63=%111111
|> (one can guess that NHASH=64)
|> 
|> Replace the OR (|) with addition (+) or exclusive-OR (^) for some improvement.
|> 

OK I agree the hash function needs changing, but... I've decided it's not
the problem ... but I'll change it anyway.  After a while running ld through
a source level debugger to try and work out what it's doing I've discovered
what's going on and managed to recreate the problem... half way there now at
least.

ld will not pick up *any* externally defined uninitialised variable from a
library!  Would some one like to check if hsc fails with this?

e.g.
test.c:
	int	test_var;

cc -c test.c
ar r test.a test.o

test2.c:
	extern int test_var;
	main()
	{
		test_var=3;
	}

cc test2.c test.o works
cc test2.c test.a doesn't!!!  (undefined symbol _test_var from test2.o)

nm reckons they contain the same info - so I'm now checking
out the differences between how ld handles an object file and a library.

[stuff deleted]

|> Steven

Richard

BTW anyone know if sozobon can be emailed, and if so where?
From: grellier@ufrima.imag.fr (GRELLIER thierry)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.atari.st.tech
Subject: Redirect MiNT clipboard to a ram-disk ?
Date: 9 Nov 92 10:20:18 GMT
Organization: University of Grenoble (France)


	I haven't got a hard-disk, so I use a big ram-disk. And when I
	use copy in toswin, the buffer is saved to the A drive. Is it
	possible to redirect it to the ram-disk I use ?

-- 
		      _..-'(                       )`-.._
	           ./'. '||\\.       (\_/)       .//||` .`\.
	        ./'.|'.'||||\\|..    )O O(    ..|//||||`.`|.`\.
	     ./'..|'.|| |||||\`````` '`"'` ''''''/||||| ||.`|..`\.
Newsgroups: comp.sys.atari.st.tech
From: nino@vmars.tuwien.ac.at (Marinos Yannikos)
Subject: Re: 16-bit RAM Access on Falcon ?
Organization: TU Wien, Vienna, Austria
Distribution: eunet
Date: Wed, 11 Nov 1992 11:05:32 GMT

peter@rhrk.uni-kl.de (Gunter Bitz) writes:
: 
: I don't know what Qindex does, but I testet the following:
: A short loop (which fits completely in the processor cache) like that:
: ll:
: 	move.w	d0,(a0)+
: 	dbf	d7,ll
: and another like
: ll:
: 	move.l	d0,(a0)+
: 	dbf	d7,ll
:

Was the data in a0 longwqord-aligned in the second case? If not, the result
is not surprising, since it takes 2 accesses to load a longword which is
not longword-aligned even on full 32-bit machines!

: The result was that filling the same amount of memory with longwords is a bit
: faster than filling with words, but not twice as fast as it should be on a
: r e a l   32 bit machine. I'm sorry about that
:[...]
:   Gunter
:
From: davidli@simvax.labmed.umn.edu
Newsgroups: comp.sys.atari.st.tech
Subject: Re: Raster Copy [for window scrolling]
Date: 12 Nov 92 20:26:51 GMT
Article-I.D.: news2.1992Nov12.202651.18797
Reply-To: davidli@simvax.labmed.umn.edu
Organization: Health Computer Sciences, U of MN, Mpls

In article <101606@bu.edu>, anneklin@acs.bu.edu (Patricia Anne) writes:
>There's a package on atari.archive, that's been languishing in the
>atari/New directory for some unknown time called wx_lib10.zoo.  It's 
>a window'd output library for C ...

The archive in question is now available in the atari/Newitems directory.
Just thought you'd all like to know that you can pick up the archive and
start coding away...

-- David Paschall-Zimbel
From: grier@bnr.ca (Brian Grier)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.atari.st.tech
Subject: MiNT and *.XFS files
Date: 10 Nov 92 18:15:44 GMT
Organization: Bell Northern Research

When I downloaded MiNT 0.95B from GEnie a couple months ago
the README file mentioned that it will load files with the
extension "XFS", from the "/mint" directory, at initailization.
From this I can assume these are supposed to be extensions to MiNT.

Basically what ".XFS" modules are available in the public domain?
Also what is the basic template for creating a ".XFS" file?


On another Note.
Someone asked what my "mint.cnf" file looks like. Well I just
use the one that came with MiNT, with no modifications. I know
sort of boring, but it works for me.

Brian, WS1S
Bell Northern Research
Research Triangle Park, NC
bjgrier@bnr.ca
Newsgroups: comp.sys.atari.st.tech
From: hutch@bellman.lanl.gov (John Hutchinson)
Subject: Falcon DSP sounds
Reply-To: hutch@bellman.lanl.gov
Organization: Los Alamos National Laboratory
Date: Mon, 9 Nov 1992 18:40:00 GMT

This may be a little naive, but does anyone have any info on how to play sounds
that utilize the capabilities of the Falcon's DSP?  I'm a total novice at
sound and music but I'd like to know how this can be done.  What kind of
sound formats could be used?  I'm simply interested in finding a way to play
back some short but great sound effects.

Thanks,
---

___________________________ John "HUTCH" Hutchinson _________________________
_________________ Fair Dinkum Technologies     Member - IAAD  _______________
________________ "No worries, mate... it's from Fair Dinkum!" _______________
____________ email: hutch@bellman.lanl.gov   GEnie: FAIR-DINKUM _____________