From: tls@panix.com (Thor Lancelot Simon)
Subject: Re: Andre Marrou on Larry King
Date: Sat, 25 Jul 1992 06:54:54 GMT
Organization: PANIX Public Access Unix & Internet, NYC

In article <1682EC8E0.MCMASTER@LSTC2VM.stortek.com> MCMASTER@LSTC2VM.stortek.com writes:
>In article <1992Jul24.174409.28165@ornl.gov>
>de5@ORNL.GOV (Dave Sill) writes:
> 
>>In article <1992Jul24.110504.28326@techbook.com>, szabo@techbook.com (Nick Szabo) writes:
>>
>>>* A caller asked Marrou how he would tackle the homeless problem.
>>>  Marrou said the problem was caused by zoning, restrictive
>>>  electric/plumbing codes, and other regulations that are designed for
>>>  the middle class and drive up the cost of housing beyond what the poor
>>>  can afford.  If home builders were free from regulation, they
>>>  could build affordable housing and homelessness would be greatly
>>>  reduced.
>>
>>Sounds like snake oil, to me.  Those pesky codes aren't designed to drive up
>>the cost of housing, they're there to ensure safety.  Should people be allowed
>                                                       ========================
>>to live in unsafe housing just because they can't afford safety features?  The
> =========================================================================
>>homeless problem isn't lack of affordable housing, it's an excess of jobless,
>>poor, addicted, and mentally or physically ill people.  Shaving 10, 20, or even
>>30% off the cost of construction won't solve the homeless problem.
>>
>>--
>>Dave Sill (de5@ornl.gov)           For every Bill Joy there is a Kirk McKusick.
> 
>This is exactly what the Libertarians propose.  In the interests of
>personal freedom, they believe each poor person should be allowed to
>decide for himself whether he would rather have an unsafe house than
>no house at all.  Safety codes and inspections are all that keep the
>benevolent builders from unleashing a veritable flood of truly
>affordable housing.  This flood would sweep all the homeless off the
>streets, create zillions of new jobs, cure aids, oust Saddam Hussein,
>... OOPS!  Got carried away by a rush of Libertarian rhetoric there.
>If a few thousand people die in buildings that burn down because of bad
>wiring, well, these folks have to pay the consequences for choosing to
>live in unsafe housing, now don't they?

If a few thousand people die cold and hungry on the streets, why is it up to
someone else to decide that they should die thus rather than risking death by
fire as the price for actually living in a building at all?  Freeze or burn --
at least one way you get a _shot_ at a better life.  I think a lot of the
homeless would be perfectly willing to take the gamble.  Of course, Big Brother
knows best.  I quote Jean-Paul Sartre:  "Si un ange vient a moi, c'est a moi
de dire que ce soit un ange."  Who are you to take away others' angels, just
because you think it's in their best interest?

> 
>Libertarians usually fail to follow their proposals to their logical
>conclusions.  They really believe their own propaganda, and that all
>would be right with the world if their proposals were enacted.  There
>is no point in arguing with the true believers.  They start from a
>totally different set of premises, so logical arguments are wasted on
>them.

One might accuse you of exactly the same thing, but I bet you buy the name-brand
Demoblican or perhaps the Republicrat snake oil instead, don't you?  There are
no easy solutions.  Please act mature enough not to attack people personally
just because they have different beliefs than you do, yet hold them just as
dear.  "They're hopeless, so I won't bother to argue with them, because I
can't convince them, which makes them by necessity wrong." contains the same
mistaken belief in one's own "propaganda" and selfsure, cocky assertion that
"all would be right with the world if [your] proposals were enacted" that you
criticize.  Can we return to debating the ideas in question, instead of
sniping at the people who express them?
-- 
Thor Lancelot Simon	 tls@panix.COM

"Better be careful there.  John might decide to start taking legal action
against people who refuse to buy stuff from him."  --Kevin McBride
Newsgroups: alt.politics.marrou,alt.individualism