From: muehlhau@en.ecn.purdue.edu (John Muehlhausen)
Newsgroups: talk.religion.misc
Subject: Does God hate some and love others, etc...
Date: 14 Dec 92 22:04:35 GMT
Organization: Purdue University Engineering Computer Network

Replies to Steve Zobell and James Hale:

somebody writes:
>>>Assuming your God loved Jacob perfectly, did He love Esau perfectly too?

I wrote:
>>Why don't you ask Him?  (I'm not kidding in the least...)

Steve wrote:
>Your response to my question leads me to believe you are also puzzled
>about how a being with perfect love for everyone can hate someone.
>Just as puzzling is how He can love one person while hating another,
>considering that all people are lower than slimy slugs compared to God
>(I am paraphrasing some Christian teachings hear and I don't recall the
>exact analogy).  Imagine I saw two slugs on the sidewalk and decided I
>loved one and hated the other (because it looked a little more slimy)
>and proceeded to fry one with my magnifying glass and take the other
>home to be cared for and nurtured.

I think a more appropriate analogy runs thusly:  These two slugs (or
whatever) are not the same, as you have supposed.  One knows you are there
and wants to give you glory and praise and is willing to live the way you
made it to live (assuming you are the creator of this slug).  The other slug
does not want to know you or have anything to do with you and wants to live
the way it wants to live, and despite your warning it wanders under the focal
point of the magnifying glass, which has its own purpose (say, starting your
campfire).  Or better yet, you fry it to keep something even worse from
happening to it.  Any "hatred" you have towards it would 1) be slow in coming
- this slug has been pissing you off in this way for a long, long time, and
2) be of its own doing.

God is love:

   And so we know and rely on the love God has for us.  God is love.  Whoever
   lives in love lives in God, and God in him.  1 JOHN 4:16

God is with (loves) those that love Him, and is not with (hates) those that
do not love Him.  Because He is not with those who do not love Him, bad
things happen.  He does not love them, but it is because they don't want it.
God cannot hate, for He is love.  His "hatred" is simply a withdrawal of His
love.  He does not want to do so, but for those who reject Him he gives them
what they want (deserve).  I think justice is certainly a part of love, and
even anger when it is due. (that is, more than 70*7 offenses :-)  The fact
that living outside of God's love makes one deserving of death (both types)
or any other mishap is simply to be expected.  I agree that it isn't pretty,
but you can't say we weren't warned:

   "Because he loves me," says the LORD, "I will rescue him; I will protect
   him, for he acknowledges my name." PSALMS 91:14

   Know therefore that the LORD your God is God; he is the faithful God,
   keeping his covenant of love to a thousand generations of those who love
   him and keep his commands. DEUT 7:9

   I love those who love me, and those who seek me find me. PROV 8:17

   Whoever has my commands and obeys them, he is the one who loves me.  He
   who loves me will be loved by my Father, and I too will love him and show
   myself to him.  JOHN 14:21

   The LORD watches over all who love him, but all the wicked he will
   destroy. PSALMS 145:20

   Yet the LORD longs to be gracious to you; he rises to show you compassion.
   For the LORD is a God of justice.  Blessed are all who wait for him!
   ISAIAH 30:18

   As a father has compassion on his children, so the LORD has compassion on
   those who fear him.  PSALMS 103:13

   But from everlasting to everlasting the LORD's love is with those who fear
   him, and his righteousness with their children's children.  PSALMS 103:17

   "...I will show my love to the one I called 'Not my loved one.'  I will
   say to those called 'Not my people,' 'You are my people'; and they will
   say, 'You are my God.'" HOSEA 2:23

   ...Though in anger I struck you, in favor I will show you compassion.
   ISAIAH 60:10

   For my own name's sake I delay my wrath; for the sake of my praise I hold
   it back from you, so as not to cut you off. ISAIAH 48:9

Steve:
>I guess I'm relieved that He didn't lie when he said he hated Esau.
>Perhaps you can post some quotes from God supporting your claim that
>God loves everyone perfectly?

OK, God does not love everyone - only those who love Him.  Give Him some
credit though - He wants to love you, if you'll let Him!

I stand corrected!

   This is good, and pleases God our Savior, who wants all men to be saved
   and to come to a knowledge of the truth. 1 TIM 2:3,4

somebody writes:
>>>So Ill go around slaying enemies and routing whole civilisations !

I write:
>>Where does the Bible tell the A.D. believer to do anything of the sort???

Steve writes:
>LUKE 19:27  But those mine enemies which would not that I should reign
>over them, bring hither, and slay them before me.

This is the master in the parable talking, not Jesus giving a command.

   Do not take revenge, my friends, but leave room for God's wrath, for it is
   written: "It is mine to avenge; I will repay," says the LORD.  On the
   contrary: "If your enemy is hungry, feed him; if he is thirsty, give him
   something to drink.  In doing this, you will heap burning coals on his
   head."  Do not be overcome by evil, but overcome evil with good.  ROMANS
   12:19-21


I write:
>> Why don't you ask Him?  (I'm not kidding in the least...)
>> He certainly knows better than I, and He will not lie.
>> 
>> John M.

James Hale writes:
>This is quite a good idea. Perhaps you could write Him a letter. Really
>let fly with what you want to know, what pisses you off about Him, even
>why you think He doesn't exist (if that's waht you think).
>
>But then, and this is the bit you may not find so easy [as if the above
>is easy] write His reply to yourself. Write His reply.
>
>As I said, you don't have to believe in Him for this to be of use. 
>
>You don't have anything to lose.

Q: Are you there God?

A: "Be still and know that I am God."

You'd be suprised at what God says if you listen! :-)

John M.
Newsgroups: talk.religion.misc