From: macman@bernina.ethz.ch (Danny Schwendener)
Subject: Re: should cub scout units have campouts?
Organization: Peppermint Software Inc.
Date: Fri, 8 Jan 1993 16:40:59 GMT

kary@col.hp.com (Dan Kary) writes:

>[...] The BSA liability insurance does not cover den or pack
>camping specifically because the leaders are not trained.  I know that
>many Cub leaders are highly skilled in camping, but in order to make it
>a part of the program, the BSA must provide training so that every leader
>can be sufficiently trained to conduct a safe activity.  The safety of
>the boys is the number one consideration.

So much for the BSA policy. But what is your personal opinion on it?
Assuming that the leaders are skilled in camping, should they
be able to set up a campout with their cubs?

Our (swiss) insurance is less restrictive, and the liability is based
on the leader's common sense. A unit leader who organizes a wide game
next to a cliff is out of his head and liable to a good extent
if anything happens. On the other side, we won't forbid an activity
to a trained leader just because some other leaders he's never heard
of haven't had an adequate training.

The same counts for a (cub or scout) leader who is performing
a dangerous activity. Abseiling for example. I'm doing abseiling
with my webelos once a year, at a scaled down level, and with all
the according safety measures. I'm a trained mountaineer, btw.

You might gasp in horror reading this, but you can't prevent kids
from climbing up trees and rocks or playing with fire. Forbid it?
they will do it anyway, particularly when they're 9-12 years old.

The better way to do it is to show them why something is dangerous
and what is required to do it safely. For abseiling or climbing, 
the requirements I teach are good mountaineering equipment, 
an adequate terrain and the supervision by a professionally trained
adult.


>OK, now I'm confused.  Your address is Switzerland, and you mention an
>affiliation with a San Francisco unit.  My comments about policy apply
>only to BSA, of course.  There are BSA units in Europe, but only on military
>bases, I believe.  I expect there are no US military bases in Switzerland,

Heaven forbid, no. We haven't had foreign military bases on our
territory since Napoleon. Nevertheless, there are two BSA units in
Switzerland, one based in Geneva (hosting the UNO, the BIT and the
Red Cross) and one in Bern (hosting the American Embassy). 

I'm with the Swiss scouts, as unit leader trainer and pack/den leader. 
But one of my personal goals in scouting is to fill the gap between
the different scout organizations around the world. I visited several
packs and troops, and one of them has nominated me as a life member
of their unit, which I'm reflecting in the sig.

As a side note, I organized a common weekend between the BSA pack in
Bern and my pack. We stayed in one of our log houses. It was a truly
great experience, both for the kids and for the leaders. 

None of the BSA cubs spoke german, and none of my cubs spoke english,
but nevertheless, they managed easily to play with each other.

A major aspect of the weekend was that we presented activities
from both organizations. Cub scouting in the BSA is radically
different from cub scouting in Switzerland, and so, we learned
a lot from each other. Needless to say that we'll be repeating the
experience this year.

-- Danny Schwendener         macman@bernina.ethz.ch
   Wolfsmeute Nidau/Glockenhof, Sihlstr. 33, CH-8001 Zurich, Switzerland
   m.h.c. Troop 14, San Francisco