HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: hopkins@gvlf9-o.gvl.unisys.com (Bill Hopkins)
Newsgroups: rec.aviation.student
Subject: Re: medical certificate
Date: 6 Oct 92 18:13:16 GMT
Reply-To: hopkins@gvl.unisys.com
Distribution: usa
Organization: Unisys Defense Systems, Great Valley Labs, Paoli, Pa

[r.a reorganization, a new newsreader, a week in the lab, and I'm
finally catching up...]

In article <1ahnabINN8na@topaz.bds.com> ron@topaz.bds.com (Ron Natalie)
writes:
>Call the Aircraft Owners and Pilots Association.  One of the finer things
>they do for the community is helping people get medicals straight.

Absolutely.  The important thing to remember when dealing with any
bureaucracy (like the FAA) is that they make the rules and you have
to play by them.  If you don't know the rules, you're at a disadvantage.
AOPA makes it its business to find out what the rules are, lobby to
change the unreasonable ones, and help its members use them to their
advantage.  They are always friendly, and are happy to take membership
info on the phone if you want to join.  The cost is $39, and they accept
Visa or MasterCard.  The alternative is to hire a lawyer who knows the
rules, and now we're talking big bucks.

With membership you get a slick "Flying"-type monthly magazine that
also includes lotsa news about what's happening on the lobbying front,
and if you ask for it, a yearbook (_Aviation_USA_) that includes the
relevant FARs (the rules we fly by) and a bunch of other good stuff.
Ask for it.  (You also get some phone calls asking for donations for
various aviation foundations, but they go away if you say "no" -- and
they are exceedingly pleasant about it.)

>Their general number is (800) 872-2672.

That's 800/USA-AOPA, which I can usually remember.

>Frankly, I believe you may have a chance for a medical.  I've heard other
>stories of people being turned down upon "paperwork", but usually with the
>right supporting documentation (or perhaps additional medical examination)
>can be approved.

I understand that the medical opinions need to say the right things
for the FAA to be able to sign off on your fitness.  Getting the
same doctor to say the same thing in slightly different words is
sometimes enough!  Since medical certification is a major area of
FAA/pilot conflict, AOPA has a staff that specializes in it.  Call
them and press "3" on the dial-up menu to talk to them.

	Bill (a satisfied member) Hopkins

--------------------------------------------------------------------------
hopkins@GVL.Unisys.Com      Paramax Systems Corporation (A Unisys Company)
215-648-2854 or 363-7464    Great Valley Labs, PO Box 517, Paoli, PA 19301
MXE 016 radial, 8 nmi          Opening my mouth is not company policy.
Newsgroups: rec.aviation.student
From: c60c-3gi@web-3e.berkeley.edu (Masayuki Karahashi)
Subject: Re: medical certificate
Organization: University of California, Berkeley
Distribution: usa
Date: Sat, 3 Oct 1992 08:52:29 GMT

In article <1992Oct2.213104.1907@murdoch.acc.Virginia.EDU> ses3n@fermi.clas.Virginia.EDU (Sharon Elizabeth Silverman) writes:
>
>You don't need a medical to fly an ultralight, I think.
>A friend with diabetes can get his private but has a
>winged lawnmower. Try it out!  And good luck - flying 
>is too good to pass up.			Sharon
>

question...ultralight?

---Masayuki Karahashi
c60c-3gi@web.berkeley.edu
Newsgroups: rec.aviation.student
From:  (Bob Noel)
Subject: Re: medical certificate
Organization: The MITRE Corporation
Distribution: usa
Date: Fri, 2 Oct 1992 16:39:28 GMT

In article <1992Oct2.023816.5698@pasteur.Berkeley.EDU>, c60c-3gi@web-3e.berkeley.edu (Masayuki Karahashi) writes:
> 
> This is the first posting Im making on this newsgroup.  hello world.
> 
> anyway, I wanted to ask people for an advice.  A couple of years ago, I 
> started taking flight lessons at San Carlos Airport (near San Francisco).
> I then went to a FAA approved doctor ow something to get a third class
> student medical certificate, but since I had a heart murmur, he said
> he can't certify my and he has to send the files to LA for approval by
> te local flight surgeon.  And he did, and my request for a certificate
> was denied.  So I appealed and had the stuff sent over to Oklahoma City.
> Also sent a whole bunch of other stuff they requested.  They turned me down
> again.  
> 
> But I still want to learn how to fly, but if they keep on turning me donw
> like this (for a special issuance) is there anything more I can do?  They
> told me I can appeal again, but do you think I even have a chance at this?
> 
> ---Masayuki Karahashi
> c60c-3gi@web.berkeley.edu
> "I think its time to change major"
> 
> 

Last I looked, flying gliders did not require a medical.  So, if
the FAA never allows you a medical, you could always try being
a glider pilot.

Bob Noel
My views are my own, not MITRE's


Newsgroups: rec.aviation.student
From: mjoseph@ux1.cso.uiuc.edu (Mark Joseph)
Subject: Re: medical certificate
Summary: gliders?
Keywords: gliders, medical certificate
Organization: University of Illinois at Urbana-Champaign
Distribution: usa
Date: Fri, 2 Oct 1992 18:52:50 GMT

In article <1992Oct2.163928.4454@linus.mitre.org> (Bob Noel) writes:
>
>Last I looked, flying gliders did not require a medical.  So, if
>the FAA never allows you a medical, you could always try being
>a glider pilot.
>

True, but you still have to interpret FAR 61.103, which says:

- To be eligible for a private pilot certificate, a person must -
- a)...
- b)...
- c) Hold at least a current third-class medical certificate issued 
- under Part 67 of this chapter, or, in the case of a glider or free 
- balloon rating, certify that he has no known medical defect that 
- makes him unable to pilot a glider or free balloon, as appropriate;
- d)...
- e)...
- f)...

FAR 61.85 has similar things to say about a student pilot certificate.

So, how far can you stretch this without perjuring oneself?  
Any comments?


-- 
Mark Joseph             University of Illinois / Speech & Hearing Science
Technical Support Mgr.  901 S. Sixth St., Champaign, IL 61820
m-joseph@uiuc.edu       (217)244-2569   FAX:(217)244-2235
Newsgroups: rec.aviation.student
From: bwood@nssdca.gsfc.nasa.gov (William Wood)
Subject: 800 number
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41    
Organization: NASA - Goddard Space Flight Center
Date: Sat, 3 Oct 1992 00:12:00 GMT


Regarding the previous inquiry about "is the audio training company
in colorado still in business??" All I can say is that 'I' called
the 800 number listed in an earlier message, and not only got an 
answer, but they are sending me information in the mail on their
courses!  I'm also located near the "oldest airport in the world"..
@ College Park, MD. Airport.. should anyone want info.. from them,
feel free to contact me on it.  good luck yalll
From: tmark@wbst845e.xerox.com (Ted Markowitz)
Newsgroups: rec.aviation.student
Subject: High-wing vs. low-wing training
Date: 2 Oct 92 21:48:37 GMT
Distribution: rec.aviation.piloting
Organization: Xerox KBSCC - Webster, New York

Does anyone have any opinions or experience on the relative merits of
learning on a high-wing plane (e.g., C172) vs. a low-wing?  I received
some lessons as a gift and the instructor recommended a low-wing which
seems alright by me, but some advice would be appreciated.  Thanks.
--
ted 
===============================================
 Ted Markowitz
 Xerox Knowledge Based Systems Competency Ctr.
 780 Salt Road (845-20C)
 Webster, NY 14580

 Phone: 716-422-5664 (Intelnet: 8*222-5664)
 Fax:   716-422-2479
===============================================
From: jis@panix.com (Jack Szwergold)
Newsgroups: rec.aviation.student
Subject: Course/Certification Info...
Date: 5 Oct 92 18:00:08 GMT
Organization: Panix, NYC

Hi.  I am very interested in getting helicopter certification, and would
like to know if any of you out ther have any info/advice....

Someone had previously e-mailed me info, but my mailer trashed it.

Please E-mail all replies.....

Thanks in advance...

Jack
jis@panix.com
From: kkalan@casbah.acns.nwu.edu (Kenneth Kalan)
Newsgroups: rec.aviation.student
Subject: Re: High-wing vs. low-wing training
Date: 6 Oct 92 16:45:55 GMT
Article-I.D.: news.1992Oct6.164555.20749
Organization: Northwestern University, Evanston Illinois.

In article <1992Oct5.163229.187@ccad.uiowa.edu> yiannis@ccad.uiowa.edu (Yiannis Papelis) writes:
>In some article tmark@wbst845e.xerox.com (Ted Markowitz) writes:
>> 
>> Does anyone have any opinions or experience on the relative merits of
>> learning on a high-wing plane (e.g., C172) vs. a low-wing?  I received
>> some lessons as a gift and the instructor recommended a low-wing which
>> seems alright by me, but some advice would be appreciated.  Thanks.
>
>This subject tends to get very emotional for some people but here are
>some comments I have on the issues after having flown (for few
>hours I might add), cessnoids (c152, c172), piperoids (warriors/archers)
>and a kitfox (20 minutes, what a ride!!)
>
>High wings
>    Better view of underneath land, great for sight seeing
>    No ground effect on landing -> easier landing
>    Wing obscures runway during the base-to-final, makes me uncomfortable
>    Checking tanks is harder due to their location
>
>Low wing:
>    Good view of runway during pattern work
>    Easy access to tanks, but hard access to drains
>    Ground effect on landing -> more challenging
>    There is something about walking on the wing -:)
>
>There is also the issue of the clearence of the wing from the
>ground during landings with stiff crosswinds where slipping is used.
>I felt very funny about the wing of the archer beign so close
>to the runway before touchdown, but I'm used to it by now.
>Another thing I have noticed (that is not necessarily related to
>high/low wing, maybe its a cessna/piper characteristic) is that
>cessnas seem to have a distinctive rotation stage, 
>while pipers jump off the runway once the nose comes off.  
>Now that I think of it maybe it's ground effect.
>
>-- 
>Yiannis E. Papelis,            - Electrical & Computer Engineering, U of Iowa
>Center of Computer Aided Design- Home of the Iowa Driving Simulator & future
>e-mail: yiannis@ccad.uiowa.edu - home of the National Advanced Driving Simulator

I have only trained in High wing planes (172), but have always been told that
a high wing plane is a little more difficult to land than a low wing.
Both planes experience ground effect, but I believe because the wings are
closer to the ground on a low wing, this aids in cushining the landing. 

My insturctor told me that if I learn to land a high wing well, you'll
grease the landing in a low wing.

Just another thought on the subject.

Ken Kalan
PP ASEL
kgk@nwu.edu
Newsgroups: rec.aviation.student
From: c60c-3gi@web-3e.berkeley.edu (Masayuki Karahashi)
Subject: medical certificate
Originator: c60c-3gi@web-3e.berkeley.edu
Organization: University of California, Berkeley
Distribution: usa
Date: Fri, 2 Oct 1992 02:38:16 GMT

This is the first posting Im making on this newsgroup.  hello world.

anyway, I wanted to ask people for an advice.  A couple of years ago, I 
started taking flight lessons at San Carlos Airport (near San Francisco).
I then went to a FAA approved doctor ow something to get a third class
student medical certificate, but since I had a heart murmur, he said
he can't certify my and he has to send the files to LA for approval by
te local flight surgeon.  And he did, and my request for a certificate
was denied.  So I appealed and had the stuff sent over to Oklahoma City.
Also sent a whole bunch of other stuff they requested.  They turned me down
again.  

But I still want to learn how to fly, but if they keep on turning me donw
like this (for a special issuance) is there anything more I can do?  They
told me I can appeal again, but do you think I even have a chance at this?

---Masayuki Karahashi
c60c-3gi@web.berkeley.edu
"I think its time to change major"
Newsgroups: rec.aviation.student
From: wd@cs.tu-berlin.de (Wolfgang Diestelkamp)
Subject: Re: medical certificate
Organization: Technical University of Berlin, Germany
Distribution: usa
Date: Fri, 2 Oct 1992 09:24:39 GMT

In article <1992Oct2.023816.5698@pasteur.Berkeley.EDU> c60c-3gi@web-3e.berkeley.edu (Masayuki Karahashi) asks, how he could learn to fly despite a denied medical due to some
heart problems.

If your *really* want to learn how to fly, you could of course
take a CFI with you as the one who ACTs as PIC all the time.
Not very nice to depend on some CFI all the time I do admit,
but it's a way to get to flying; you simply can't solo unless
you get that medical.

-- 
Wolfgang Diestelkamp
wd@cs.tu-berlin.de
wolfgang@first.gmd.de

Newsgroups: rec.aviation.student
From: ses3n@fermi.clas.Virginia.EDU (Sharon Elizabeth Silverman)
Subject: Re: medical certificate
Organization: University of Virginia
Distribution: usa
Date: Fri, 2 Oct 1992 21:32:04 GMT

OOPS - that should have been "he CAN'T get his private..."
				Sorry! Sharon
From: baarniy@iastate.edu (Scott A Coon)
Newsgroups: rec.aviation.student
Subject: biplane license
Summary: how to get one?
Keywords: how, license, biplanes
Date: 6 Oct 92 05:56:08 GMT
Followup-To: rec.aviation.student
Organization: Iowa State University, Ames, IA


    How would you go about getting a biplane pilot's license?  I
don't have any sort of license (asking for a friend who doesn't
read news).  I suppose only the steps after receiving a "standard"
(whatever that means) license would be enough.  This would not be
in connection with barnstorming, just flying (although all info
is welcome.)
    Email would be great, but feel free to post if you think anyone
else would be interested.
Scott Coon
baarniy@iastate.edu
Newsgroups: rec.aviation.student
From: c60c-3gi@web-3e.berkeley.edu (Masayuki Karahashi)
Subject: Re: medical certificate
Organization: University of California, Berkeley
Distribution: usa
Date: Fri, 2 Oct 1992 22:32:04 GMT

In article <1992Oct2.163928.4454@linus.mitre.org> (Bob Noel) writes:

>Last I looked, flying gliders did not require a medical.  So, if
>the FAA never allows you a medical, you could always try being
>a glider pilot.

hmmm...never thought of that.  Sounds like an idea.  Anyone know
of anyplace in teh San Francisco, CA  are that has glider training?
thanks

---Masayuki Karahashi
c60c-3gi@web.berkeley.edu
"I think its time to change major"
Newsgroups: rec.aviation.student
From: scostant@cc.curtin.edu.au
Subject: Rotary vs Fixed wing for beginners?
Organization: Curtin University of Technology
Date: Tue, 6 Oct 1992 23:59:10 GMT

I have always been interested in flying helicopters. I originally planned to
leave school and join the armed forces in order to pursue this interest.
However, since I wear glasses I was not elligible for any aviation type careers
in the Australian defence forces. As a consequence I have pursued a university
degree etc., but the urge to learn to fly still nags at me. Anyway, I would 
like to know several things;

a) Is it better/more beneficial to obtain a private fixed wing licence before
progressing to helicopters? (I have not had experience with either rotary wing 
(rw) or fixed wing (fw))

b) Am I restrictred from ever obtaining a commercial licence for either rw. or
fw. because I am shortsighted?

c) Are there any advantages/disadvantages in obtaining a private rw. licence,
slowly advancing/converting it to a commercial rw. licence, as opposed to
getting a commercial licence right from the word go?

d) Apart from the cost of hiring the different types of helicopters, is there
a particular type that students should learn on?

Any info. would be greatly appreciated. As someone in one of the other
aviation news groups said, the flying schools and companies want to see your
wallet before being of any help.

thanks in advance,  

COZZIE                           
(Scostant@cc.curtin.edu.au)         /| |\     
Ph D student                       / |_| \     
School of Biomedical Sciences,    / )\ /  || 
Curtin University,                |---0--- |   |-O-|
Perth, Western Australia          \  / \   /
                                   ^::::::^    
                                               
                                                 |-O-|

              Leia: "We've lost lateral controls"

               Han: "Don't worry, she'll hold together"

               Han: (to Falcon) "You hear me, baby? Hold together!"

                                                                               


Newsgroups: rec.aviation.student
From: jhenderson@pomona.claremont.edu
Subject: "Guaranteed" IFR training package
Organization: Pomona College
Date: 5 Oct 92 11:04:20 PDT

Hello,

I learned of a local FBO's "guaranteed" program to obtain the instrument
ticket. For $2,995 they guarantee you will pass the checkride, no matter
how many hours it takes. Ground instruction for the written is included as well
as some books (Gleim I think). The only thing not covered by that sum is the
DE's fee.

All the training is done in Warriors, with no simulators, so the (at least) 40
hours of dual will be flying. Flights are conducted in IMC when possible. They
do have some minimum qualifications before they let you into that program, such
as minimum x-country time as PIC.

So my question is... does it sound like a good deal? I can't find anything
wrong with this package. There is no time limit to complete it either. Refunds
to the fee (due in advance) are only given if you loose your medical for
whatever reason (and then, prorated, using the standard instruction rate of
$79/hour for plane+instructor).

______________________________________________________________________________
Javier Henderson, N6VBG         | Beat the 55mph limit (legally):
jhenderson@pomona.claremont.edu | Learn to fly!
Newsgroups: rec.aviation.student
From: ulick@angelico.helios.nd.edu (Ulick Stafford)
Subject: Re: High-wing vs. low-wing training
Organization: OUC, University of Notre Dame
Date: Tue, 6 Oct 1992 17:47:04 GMT

In article <1992Oct6.164555.20749@news.acns.nwu.edu> kkalan@casbah.acns.nwu.edu (Kenneth Kalan) writes:
>I have only trained in High wing planes (172), but have always been told that
>a high wing plane is a little more difficult to land than a low wing.
>Both planes experience ground effect, but I believe because the wings are
>closer to the ground on a low wing, this aids in cushining the landing. 
>
>My insturctor told me that if I learn to land a high wing well, you'll
>grease the landing in a low wing.

I beg to say the exact opposite.  I learned in a low wing and had a lot of
problems with landings, but when getting chewcked out in a 172 greased all
landings, although I usually grease landing in checkouts, I guess.  A
question of need, perhaps?


+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ 
+ 'There was a  master come unto the earth, + Ulick Stafford, PP-ASEL       +
+    born in the holy land of Indiana,      + Dept of Chemical Engineering, +
+ in the mystical hills east of Fort Wayne'.+ Notre Dame, IN 46556          +
+      B'fhearr liom bheith ag eitilt.      +    ulick@bach.helios.nd.edu   +
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Newsgroups: rec.aviation.student,rec.aviation.piloting
From: geoff@peck.com (Geoff Peck)
Subject: r.a.student vs. r.a.piloting
Followup-To: rec.aviation.misc
Organization: Geoffrey G. Peck, Consultant, San Jose CA
Date: Fri, 2 Oct 1992 06:05:31 GMT

I've noted a flurry of postings in rec.aviation.piloting along the lines
of "I'd like to learn to fly".  These postings really belong in
rec.aviation.student.  The group charters are repeated below.

rec.aviation.piloting
    Information pertinent to pilots of general aviation aircraft which
    would not fall into one of the other non-misc rec.aviation groups.
    Topics include, but are not limited to flying skills, interesting sights,
    destinations, flight characteristics of aircraft, unusual situations,
    handling emergencies, working with air traffic control, international
    flights, customs and immigration, experiences with ground support
    facilities, etc.

rec.aviation.student
    It's been said that every good pilot is a student pilot -- for life.
    This group is dedicated to learning experiences and questions,
    particularly (but not exclusively) by and for those who haven't yet
    attained the private pilot certificate.  Written exams, solo flights,
    learning to land, maneuvers, flight tests, instructors and
    instructional techniques, etc.

						Geoff
From: ron@topaz.bds.com (Ron Natalie)
Newsgroups: rec.aviation.student
Subject: Re: High-wing vs. low-wing training
Date: 6 Oct 1992 18:22:53 GMT
Organization: BDS Systems
Distribution: world
NNTP-Posting-Host: topaz.bds.com

> High wing
>	No ground effect on landing -> easier landing

>Low wing:
>    Ground effect on landing -> more challenging

Gee?  I've found that ground effect helps with the landing rather


that making it harder.
Newsgroups: rec.aviation.student
From: serafin@epcot.spdc.ti.com (Mike Serafin)
Subject: Re: High-wing vs. low-wing training
Organization: TI Semiconductor Process and Design Center
Date: Tue, 6 Oct 1992 20:34:01 GMT

In article <1992Oct6.182836.13202@ccad.uiowa.edu> yiannis@ccad.uiowa.edu (Yiannis Papelis) writes:

Bunch of stuff deleted.
>
>And a final datapoint, an archer with idle power and 140 mph on
>short final will float for 6500 feet before a full stall landing.
>Don't ask how I know ...
>

140 mph short final?  Idle power? In an Archer?
Newsgroups: rec.aviation.student
From: cep@taligent.com (Christophe Pettus)
Subject: Glider medicals (was Re: medical certificate)
Supersedes: <BvInCw.6yC@taligent.com>
Organization: Taligent, a little subsidiary of two really big companies.
Distribution: usa
Date: Fri, 2 Oct 1992 22:51:33 GMT

In article <1992Oct2.210301.13410@linus.mitre.org> (Bob Noel) writes:
>I knew a private pilot who lost his medical because of a heart problem.
>He continued to fly gliders.  How? I don't know.  I haven't checked the
>FARs regarding this subject (glider medicals) because I really really
>like the noise of an engine - the silence would make me nervous.

He probably was able to fly the glider just like he always did: stick
and rudder, using lift to gain altitude ... :-)

More to the point, the FAA probably did not revoke his pilot's
certificate, just his medical.  If he feels that he can certify himself
to have no physical condition that makes him unable to fly a glider, he
can keep flying, since no medical is required.  It is certainly
possible that if the FAA ever got around to finding out that he was
still flying, they might take a dimmer view of the whole thing.
--
-- Christophe

"He presented it with a length of string, and then passed on to the
Statue of Corrupted Endeavor, there to await the arrival of autumn."