HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: patter@dasher.uucp (24224-guthrie)
Subject: Re: Redwood fence building questions
Organization: Bellcore, Livingston, NJ
Date: Tue, 25 Aug 92 16:47:00 GMT
Keywords: fence redwood stain

In article <17bsvaINNdm4@smli.Eng.Sun.COM> bpurvy@us.oracle.com writes:

>................ - they had two grades, the more expensive stuff called "con
>heart" which means it's from the heart of the tree.  They said you should
>still treat the bottoms of the posts with some kind of preservative.
> 
>I could live with that, but first of all, don't ALL the boards need to be so
>treated, or is good redwood sufficiently resistant, naturally?  Is this
>lumber yard unusual, is pressure-treated wood generally unavailable, or do
>you just not need it for redwood?

The heart wood of redwood is naturally insect and rot resitant. The
sapwood is not. Neither will take below grade applications without
treatment. If you buy the heartwood, you will not have to treat the
portion above ground. If you buy the cheaper stuff, you should treat
all of it.

The woods most usually pressure treated are pine and fir. Esthetically,
it would be criminal to pressure treat redwood.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------
                    | If you take a dog which is starving and feed him
George Patterson -  | and make him prosperous, that dog will not bite
                    | you. This is the primary difference between a dog
                    | and a man.             Samuel Clemens
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Newsgroups: misc.consumers.house
From: cantrell@seqp4.sequoia.com (Paul Cantrell)
Newsgroups: misc.consumers.house
Subject: Re: suggested weapons (was: Killing burglars.)
Date: 1 Sep 92 17:33:40 GMT
Organization: Sequoia Computer Systems

In article <mjc.714864001@NL.CS.CMU.EDU>, mjc+@cs.cmu.edu (Monica Cellio) writes:
> So, what specific weapons and ammo do you folks recommend for home
> protection?

You realize you're asking the *net* for sage advice. I hope you know what
to do with all the suggestions we make :-)

> protection?  Assume it's for an adult with no previous firearms
> experience (bows and crossbows aside) and a willingness to learn.  (Of
> course, no weapon gets into my house under *my* power before I've been
> properly trained with  it.)

Good for you. I have to believe one of the factors in determining how
effective a weapon can be is how well trained you are. Target shooting
probably does not transfer to effective combat shooting in the dark.
Does anyone know whether NRA has an established "home defense" course?

> properly trained with  it.)  Goals are to maximize effectiveness (shooting
> to wound is stupid) while  minimizing both risk to others (pass-through on
> walls) and property damage.

Pass through is probably a legitimate concern, but property damage? I
mean, within limits, I agree. I won't use a tacticle nuke to take out a
burglar, but otherwise who cares whether I destroy a few pieces of
property. Compared to the risk to my life if I ever have to use the
weapon, property damage would be the last thing on my mind. Whether a
stray bullet might hit an innocent person *is* a legitimate concern. You
should certainly think about what's in the path of fire when you blaze
away.

I'm surprised that so many people pick handguns for home defense. I like
to shoot handguns (as I said in a previous posting, I shot collegiate
pistol) and if you have to carry a concealed weapon around with you,
they're a pretty good choice, but for home defense they always struck me
as marginal. About the only advantages I see are small storage areas (like
a bedside drawer) and maneuverability in tight places.

Personally, if I was going to pick a firearm for home defense, it would
be a shotgun. Seems to me that it has more intimidation factor than a
handgun, and if you have to actually use it in the dark, a much greater
chance of hitting what you aim at. Not to mention the incredible damage
a single round can do.

I've been on the wrong side of a pistol barrel, and it's extremely scary,
but nothing like looking down the bore of a 12 gauge (which, luckilly, I
haven't had to do yet).

					PC
-- 
cantrell@sequoia.com
Newsgroups: misc.consumers.house
From: patter@dasher.uucp (24224-guthrie)
Subject: Re: 12 gauge vs 14 gauge wiring price
Organization: Bellcore, Livingston, NJ
Date: Mon, 31 Aug 92 20:26:52 GMT

In article <6068@atlas.cs.nps.navy.mil> erickson@taurus.cs.nps.navy.mil (David Erickson) writes:

>On the contrary, as the FAQ points out, there is an exception to the
>general rule that the rating of a device be at least as great as the
>rating of the overcurrent protection.  It is o.k. to put 15A outlets
>and switches in a 20A branch circuit.  It is also o.k. to do the
>reverse.

Also figure in the cost of the breakers. If you have a 150 amp panel,
you can fit fifteen 20a breakers in it. It will take twenty 15a breakers
to do the same job, and they each cost the same as a 20a. You'll save
enough on breakers to pay for the wire. When you add in the fact that
you'll use less 12ga wire to run fifteen 20a circuits than you will
14ga wire for twenty circuits, the builder will probably show a cost
savings.

Personally, I'd tell him to put his house where the sun don't shine. His
job is to build what I want to buy, NOT the other way 'round.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------
                    | [To a pilot], altitude is like money. It is
George Patterson -  | possible that having too much could be embarrasing,
                    | but having too little is always fatal.
                    |                           Commander Lamb,    RN
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
From: d3a132@pnl.gov (Carl P Baker)
Newsgroups: misc.consumers.house
Subject: Re: <none>
Date: 29 Aug 92 22:59:31 GMT
Article-I.D.: oracle.1992Aug29.225931.6166
Reply-To: d3a132@pnl.gov
Organization: Battelle Pacific Northwest Laboratories

In article 2001@yogi.hsc.ucalgary.ca, byron@homer.hsc.ucalgary.ca (Byron Draudson) writes:
>Hi.  My father-in-law, a do-it-yourself-er, installed some ABS pipe
>in my basement from my washing machine to the main pipe to the sewer
>system.  It's all done correctly with a trap etc., but a couple of
>joints have developed small leaks.  What is the proper way to "break"
>the glued joint and rejoin it so that it will not leak?

You pretty much have to cut out the bad joint, and put in a new one.
This is usually a pain, as you are trying to reassemble something that
has both ends tied down.  Since it is drain (unpressurized), you can (I
think) get rubber boots to help you put the thing back together.


-- carl

Carl P Baker
cp_baker@pnl.gov
509-375-2724

Disclaimer: I am not the official spokesperson for anyone.  For which
organizations that use spokespersons are profoundly grateful.
From: edwards@world.std.com (Jonathan Edwards)
Newsgroups: misc.consumers.house
Subject: Re: Fireplace design
Date: 31 Aug 92 16:18:18 GMT
Organization: IntraNet, Inc.

To followup on my previous post, the mason says that he vents the fireplace
from the basement rather than outside. I don't see how this would work -
the basement will be pretty airtight, except for sucking air from the house
above.



-- 
Jonathan Edwards				edwards@intranet.com
IntraNet, Inc					617-527-7020
Newsgroups: misc.consumers.house
Subject: Re: 12 gauge vs 14 gauge wiring price
Keywords: electrical wiring
From: gary@cdthq.UUCP (Gary Heston)
Date: Sun, 30 Aug 92 20:04:49 CDT
Organization: Garys' Home for Obsolete Computers

chrisb@cs.cornell.edu (Chris Buckley) writes:

> Anybody have a rough ballpark figure for the cost of building a
> new house with 12 gauge wiring instead of 14-gauge?
> 
> We're having a 4 bedroom, 2400 sq ft house built in central NJ,
> and the price the builder has quoted us is $2100.  This is a
> lot higher than I expected, even considering that this is
> tract housing.  (In general, options seem to cost about 20% more
> than they would in a custom house)
> 
> A major reason we want the 12 gauge is more reliable power so we can
> plug in computers anywhere in the house.  Does anybody have other
> suggestions?

If you have a builder that was planning to run 14 gauge wire to 
outlets, get another builder. At the very least, make him show you
an itemized breakdown of the cost difference. It should only vary
on the material price; there's no difference in labor for using 
12 in place of 14.

Gary Heston, at home....
gary@cdthq.uucp
From: mdr1@cbnewsi.cb.att.com (michael.d.rabin)
Newsgroups: misc.consumers.house
Subject: Re: Security Alarms
Date: 2 Sep 92 15:57:32 GMT
Article-I.D.: cbnewsi.1992Sep2.155732.12762
Distribution: usa
Organization: AT&T

>>Every so often, somebody from the alarm company comes around and
>>tries to convince me to put such stickers on my windows.  I refuse,
>>on the grounds that all such stickers do is warn burglars that they
>>need to cut my phone line before trying to open any windows or doors.
>
>If your alarm system depends on a phone line, you might want to get a
>"leased" line. If a leased line is cut, it raises an alarm at the phone
>company and they know instantly that your house is under attack. It's a
>little bit extra per month, but the peace of mind may be worth it,
>especially when you consider that many burglars cut phone lines as a
>matter of course, whether you have the stickers or not.
>

I know folks who have sensors on their phone lines to detect tampering.
Tampering triggers an immediate alarm. I think the setup includes some sort
of "hardening" on the phone line outside the house (like a steel
tube) so that the line can't be cut before the tampering is detected.

Michael Rabin
AT&T Bell Labs
From: davek@informix.com (David Kosenko)
Newsgroups: misc.consumers.house
Subject: Re: Best Hardware Store
Date: 1 Sep 92 17:57:52 GMT
Organization: Informix Software, Inc.

I started writing this the other day, then aborted it because it sounded
like I was being defensive about shopping at Home Depot.  But I think
it still makes some good points as to why I like shopping there, so here
it comes.

Joe McCrate writes:
>
>People tend to assume that Home Depot is cheaper than local non-"discount"
>stores.
>
>It ain't necessarily so.  When I needed concrete stepping stones for a walk,
>I checked out Home Depot and a local lumber yard (Minton's in Mtn. View,
>Calif.)  Not only did Minton's have a much better selection, but they were
>considerably cheaper than Home Depot.

True, many places that service the construction industry offer better prices
on some items than HD.  For example, I rarely buy wood from HD, preferring
my local lumberyard.

In some cases, the price difference is not significant.  For example, I know
I can get cheaper plumbing supplies at a local supply shop.  I often buy
my plumbing stuff from HD, though, for several reasons:  First (most 
significant as well), the supply place is not open on the weekends and closes
about 4:30 during the week.  This means I have to take time off from work
to get there.  HD is far more convenient.  Second, you have to know what you
want from the supply place.  All their stuff is behind the counter.  It can
be difficult (esp. if the guy behind the counter has no patience) to determine
the widget you really need.  As HD has everything where you can examine it,
I find it easier to get what I need when I don't know exactly what I need.
Finally, the price difference is not that great.  I might save .10-.15 on
pipe and fittings.

Often times, I hit HD on a weekend with a need for supplies of different
disciplines.  This means I don't have to make 3 stops to get electical,
plumbing, and gardening stuff (for example).  As there is nowhere local 
where all the different "specialty shops" are located right next to each
other, the time spent travelling to them can add up.  As my weekends are
already packed full of projects, I appreciate being able to spend minimal
time purchasing supplies.  The down side of all this is that HD can't
stock the variety that the specialty places can.  And a variety of stuff
from a single supplier probably translates into better prices for it all.

Finally, sometimes HD beats the prices.  I bought a tablesaw from HD that
was cheaper by about $30.00 than the discount mail order places,(which would
add shipping charges to the bill).

Dave
-- 
Disclaimer: These opinions are not those of Informix Software, Inc.
**************************************************************************
The heart and the mind on a parallel course, never the two shall meet.
						-E. Saliers
From: erickson@atlas.cs.nps.navy.mil (David Erickson)
Newsgroups: misc.consumers.house
Subject: Re: Deadbolt in steel door
Date: 2 Sep 92 16:16:35 GMT
Reply-To: erickson@taurus.cs.nps.navy.mil (David Erickson)
Organization: Naval Postgraduate School, Monterey CA

In article <6300144@hpfcbig.SDE.HP.COM> gt@hpfcbig.SDE.HP.COM (George Tatge) writes:
>
>>Buy a hole saw designed for use on metal. I think Diston (amoung others)
>>makes some. Make sure you get the correct size, 'cause they ain't cheap.
>>Most hardware stores carry them.
>
>Or, you can go to the local tool rental and rent a door handle 
>installation kit (eg. the one by Kwikset) which should have all
>the bits you need (make sure it has one of the right size for metal)
>as well as jigs which will help you get the holes in the right place.

It is equally important that the hole be perpendicular to the door, which
is not easy to do with a handheld drill.  Most door shops have special
equipment to do this, and to drill for the tubular latch, and if you call
around, you may be able to find one that will do the machining for less
than the cost of the hole saw.  I had a door shop bid on installation of
doors for my new house, and they figured a cost of about $30 per door for
doing the hinge mortises and boring for the leversets.

If you want to do it yourself, it helps to drill a 1/4" pilot hole, using 
either a jig or a portalign to make sure it is exactly perpendicular (unless
you happen to own a hole hawg :^).

-Dave Erickson
From: jeske@src.dec.com (Steve Jeske)
Newsgroups: misc.consumers.house
Subject: Re: Killing burglars.
Date: 1 Sep 92 00:38:25 GMT
Followup-To: rec.guns
Distribution: na
Organization: DEC Systems Research Center

In article <1992Aug28.172118.2553@oracorp.com> tom@oracorp.com (Tom) writes:
>Now can we PLEASE, PLEASE, PLEASE take this discussion out [of] m.c.h?
I agree.  Followups to rec.guns, please.  Thanks.
From: bellas@soldev.TTI.COM (Pete Bellas)
Newsgroups: misc.consumers.house
Subject: Re: Romex & Thinwall Question
Date: 4 Sep 92 15:01:10 GMT
Reply-To: bellas@soldev.TTI.COM (Pete Bellas)
Organization: Transaction Technology, Inc.

In article <1992Sep3.014749.3912@adobe.com>, vonzelow@adobe.com (Jon von
Zelowitz) writes:

> The wiring in the crawlspace is all Romex. As far as I understand, you don't
> run Romex through TWC, you run wires. So, my question is, can I strip off
> the outer sheathing from the Romex from the point where it enters the TWC? I
> can't find any mention of this in several wiring books. Thanks (Chris ;-) ).

Generally no, the insulation on the wires inside romex is different from
wire that is designed to be pulled.  The proper way is to end the romex
in a junction box, connect the conduit (EMT or flex) to the box and then 
pull THHN or THWN wire trough the conduit.  I had to do this in several
cases.  Another option in most locations is to use BX cable instead of
conduit and pulled wires (BX is sort of like romex with a metal jacket).

			-Pete-


* Pete Bellas                   "Cogito ergo spud"                         *
* Citicorp/TTI                       I think therefore I yam.              *
* Santa Monica, CA                                                         *
* bellas@gamma.tti.com                                                     *
Newsgroups: misc.consumers.house
From: scholten@esseye.si.com (David Scholten)
Subject: Finishing my basement.... WHAT DO I NEED?
Organization: Smiths Industries
Distribution: usa
Date: Mon, 31 Aug 1992 21:18:12 GMT


Well, I have been tasked by my better half to finish the basement for
more living space THIS WINTER!  So, my question is, what do I have to do
for vapor control/condensation/water on cement walls and floors?  I have
decided not to fur-strip.  So I'm going to use full studded walls and
insulation.  Is there some type of plastic that I should put up between the
concrete and the insulated walls?

Any info will be GREATLY appreciated.

Thanks,
Dave Scholten
Newsgroups: misc.consumers.house
From: davel@booboo.SanDiego.NCR.COM (David Lord)
Subject: Re: what to do about hideous tub
Reply-To: davel@booboo.SanDiego.NCR.COM (David Lord)
Organization: NCR Corporation, Rancho Bernardo
Date: Thu, 3 Sep 1992 16:30:23 GMT

For removing hardwater deposits from my old tub I've found Eliminate(tm),
a supposedly environmentally friendly product carried at Home Depot,
to be far superior to Lime Away and other acid based products. On tough
jobs I spray it on and leave it overnight. Then rinse and scrub lightly
with a plastic srcubber. Repeat if needed. I've found a single application
of this to remove deposits that repeated application of Lime Away and
lots of scrubbing barely touched.
From: mcole@pearl.tufts.edu
Newsgroups: misc.consumers.house
Subject: Cleaning flagstone
Date: 26 Aug 92 00:23:31 GMT
Organization: Tufts University - Medford, MA

Hello everyone.  I just purchased a house that has a nice screened
in porch with a flagstone floor.  The flagstone is really dirty and
stained.  I was wondering if anyone out there knew the best way
to clean flagstone.  Any response if greatly appreciated.

Michael Cole
Newsgroups: misc.consumers.house
From: lancelot@amnesiac (Bob Lancelot)
Subject: Re: Help! Washing Machine Spews out Flakes
Organization: Allen-Bradley Company, CIS-AA - Ann Arbor MI, USA
Date: Tue, 25 Aug 1992 19:07:09 GMT

In article <1992Aug22.010315.25476@usenet.ins.cwru.edu> wb8foz@skybridge.scl.cwru.edu (David Lesher) writes:
>Others said
># Sears washers and dryers are made by Whirlpool and have been for
># many years. 
>
>Err,
>I believe that they are made by Federated Screw Products aka FSP. 
>FSP also sold machines to/was partially owned whoever owns the
>Whirlpool name.
>
>--


Err, Err,

Sears washers and dryers have been made by Whirlpool since around 1927.  Whirlpool, at that time,
was called the Upton Machine Company.  The FSP which I believe you are referincing stands for 
Factory Service Parts which is are universal parts for both Kenmore and Whirlpool brand appliances.
Since Whirlpool builds them both, they only have to stock one set of parts.

BTW, Whirlpool also now owns and builds appliances under the Kitchen Aid name brand.  They acquired
Kitchen Aid a few years ago.  Whirlpool is not owned by anyone.     

Newsgroups: misc.consumers.house
From: lester@naomi.b23b.ingr.com (Les Bartel)
Subject: Re: Heat Pumps
Reply-To: lester@naomi.b23b.ingr.com
Organization: Dazix, An Intergraph Company
Date: Tue, 1 Sep 1992 15:25:48 GMT

In article <30560023@hpspkla.spk.hp.com>, borowski@hpspkla.spk.hp.com (Don T. Borowski) writes:
|> First of all, heat pumps do work both ways, so you can get summer cooling
|> and winter heating.
|> 
|> But...they are usually less efficient at cooling than an air conditioning
|> system.

Why?  The theory of operation (cooling part of the heat pump) is the same
as a traditional AC.  The only difference I can think of is some additional
freon flow resistance through valves in the heat pump.

 - les

-- 
Les Bartel			lester@naomi.b23b.ingr.com
Dazix, An Intergraph Company	uunet!ingr!b23b!naomi!lester
Huntsville, AL			(205) 730-8537

There are three kinds of people in the world:
Those who can count, and those who can't.
Newsgroups: misc.consumers.house
Subject: Re: Can/Should I talk to the owners?
From: gary@cdthq.UUCP (Gary Heston)
Date: Tue, 01 Sep 92 22:13:31 CDT
Organization: Garys' Home for Obsolete Computers

masticol@cadenza.rutgers.edu (Steve Masticola) writes:

> You might get a lead from a reverse telephone directory. The library
> should have one; it maps addresses to phone numbers/occupants.

If the property is unimproved, this probably won't work. A city 
dirrectory *might* have the information; but the county tax assessors'
office is the best bet. Locate the property on a topographical map,
and look it up in the appropriate township plat book.

Gary Heston, at home....        ....lot 31, block 4, Ridgecrest Addition,
gary@cdthq.uucp                   Huntsville, Al; in Plat Book 1, pg 268
                                  (from the photocopy of the mortgage
                                  deed with the "PAID" stamp clearly 
                                  visible at the top.....)
Newsgroups: misc.consumers.house
From: drand@spinner.osf.org (Douglas Rand)
Subject: Re: It looks like carpenter ants...
Organization: Open Software Foundation
	<DRAND.92Aug26183833@spinner.osf.org>
	<1992Aug27.094945.8800@iccgcc.decnet.ab.com>
	<1992Aug27.151300.7936@primerd.prime.com>
Date: 27 Aug 92 13:35:11

In article <1992Aug27.151300.7936@primerd.prime.com> mguyott@eriador.prime.com (M. Guyott) writes:

   In article <1992Aug27.094945.8800@iccgcc.decnet.ab.com> oman@iccgcc.decnet.ab.com (Diane at Allen-Bradley in Cleveland) writes:
   >In article <DRAND.92Aug26183833@spinner.osf.org>, drand@spinner.osf.org 
   >(Douglas Rand) writes:
   >> BTW.  If you kill the queen,  the nest is finished.  So don't worry
   >> about the pest control people's scare tactics.  You only have to kill
   >> one very important ant.
   >
   >Good point!  Our problem is we don't know if we have a nest or not - but they
   >are definitely in the house alot - maybe they're just browsing.  We don't
   >hear them in the walls - but we prefer safe over sorry.

   I also don't know if we have one, two or no nests in the house.  I have only
   seen large numbers (5 or more) in two places.

Hard to tell.  It's best to find the nests,  which only seems to be
possible by observation.  The pest control companies all want to 
treat your whole house.  Popular ant nest sites (for carpenter ants)
are near the outside wall and any wet area such as the bathroom or
even the kitchen if there's wet wood.

   How can you tell if there is a nest?  Can you really hear them in the walls?
   At what time of day (or night)?  I am a little hesitant to go tearing off
   my siding but this may be the prudent thing to do.

I've never been able to hear them.  I think we might have hear one of
the nests in the middle of the night,  but we were never sure.

   If you find the next how can you be sure you have killed the queen?

You stop seeing ants and they don't come back.  You may have
to try again.  But a $14 can of insecticide is more than an order
of magnitude cheaper than the pest company.

   Is the powder that the exterminating companies use Boric acid?

One of them claimed this,  then they had the audacity to claim that
the Boric acid "decayed" and needed reapplication.  I wasn't aware
that dry inorganic compounds decayed,  so I decided they were full
of sh*t.  After all,  you get alot more money if you come back 
every month.

   Boy, I'm just full of questions today.

You sure are :) .
--
Douglas S. Rand <drand@osf.org>		OSF/Motif Dev.
Snail:         11 Cambridge Center,  Cambridge,  MA  02142
Disclaimer:    I don't know if OSF agrees with me... let's vote on it.
Amateur Radio: KC1KJ
From: brooksp@hpcc01.corp.hp.com (Peter Brooks)
Date: Fri, 28 Aug 1992 16:41:58 GMT
Subject: Re: Ceramic tile or hardwood? (was Re: wood floor or carpet?)
Organization: the HP Corporate notes server