HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: mark@cs.UAlberta.CA (Mark Green)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.asian.american
Subject: Re: Caucasians don't understand
Date: 18 Aug 92 17:55:42 GMT
Organization: University of Alberta

In article <1992Aug17.232336.25429@sco.com> garyh@sco.COM (< Gary H >) writes:
>
>In article <1992Aug16.025209.24056@cs.UAlberta.CA> mark@cs.UAlberta.CA (Mark Green) writes:
>!
>!There is a major difference between racism in North America and China.
>!In North America the racism is more subtle, while in China its blatant.
>!In some parts of China, a white person walking on the streets alone
>!can count on some type of physical attack on a regular basis.
>
>In some parts of the US, a person walking on the street can be physically
>attacked just because of his/her skin color.  Let me rephrase this:  In
>many parts of the US, a person ....
>

I agree in the US it is possible for someone to be attacked for his
skin colour, but its a relatively rare occurance.  What I'm talking
about is being attacked several times per day.  There is a big difference
between some member of a community being attacked occasionally, and every
member of a community being attacked on a regular basis.
From: hira@cme.nist.gov (Ron Hira)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.asian.american
Subject: Re: Caucasian Clarification
Date: 17 Aug 92 13:46:11 GMT
Reply-To: hira@cme.nist.gov
Organization: National Institute of Standards and Technology

In article <25504@dog.ee.lbl.gov>, kevin@daffy.ee.lbl.gov (Kevin Gong) writes:
|>From: kevin@daffy.ee.lbl.gov (Kevin Gong)
|>Subject: Re: Caucasian Clarification
|>Date: 14 Aug 92 22:32:17 GMT
|>
|>In article <4851@dove.nist.gov> hira@cme.nist.gov writes:
|>>In article <1992Aug13.201311.19821@sco.com>, garyh@sco.COM (< Gary H
>) writes:
|>>|>From: garyh@sco.COM (< Gary H >)
|>>|>Subject: Re: Caucasian Clarification
|>>|>Date: 13 Aug 92 20:13:11 GMT
|>>|>
|>>|>
|>>|>In article <4797@dove.nist.gov> hira@cme.nist.gov writes:
|>>|>!I've posted this before, but feel compelled to do so once again.
|>>|>!
|>>|>!I understand that the majority of AA's reading from and posting to
SCAA are
|>>|>!Orientals, but I must OBJECT to you all equating Caucasians with whites.
|>>|>!
|>
|>From Webster's New Collegiate Dictionary (1979):
|>
|>Cau ca sian \ko-ka-zhen\ adj
|>	1:  of or relating to the Caucasus or its inhabitants
|>		(not what we're talking about)
|>
|>	2a:  of or relating to the white race of mankind as classified
|>		according to physical features
|>		(what most of us mean)
|>
|>	2b:  of or relating to the white race as defined by law specif.
|>		as composed of persons of European, No. African, or
|>		southwest Asian ancestry
|>		(what Ron insists we mean)
|>
|> - kevin
                                  
Ok Kevin, here's what my Webster's Third Collegiate Dictionary (1988) states:

Cau ca soid adj [ from the erroneous notion that the orig. home of the 
hypothetical Indo-Europeans was the Caucasus] designating or of one of the 
major geographical varieties of human beings, including peoples of Europe,
Africa, the Near East, India, etc., who are generally characterized by tall
stature, straight or wavy hair, etc. : loosely called the white race although 
it embraces many peoples of dark skin color.
                         ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Look, I'd prefer to keep "race" out of any discussion, since as has been 
pointed out by others that the classifications are flawed at best. Your 
discussion of caucasians is ambiguous to me, and where do people of Indian 
descent get lumped? I guess that appealing to your sensitivity in this 
matter is futile.

Later,
Ron
Newsgroups: soc.culture.asian.american
From: rtang@sunee.uwaterloo.ca (The One Your Mother Warned You About!)
Subject: Re: Caucasians don't understand
Organization: University of Waterloo
Date: Thu, 13 Aug 1992 05:30:29 GMT

In article <1992Aug12.183617.21725@inmet.camb.inmet.com> lrq@fanny (Robert Quan) writes:
>
>Why is it that a majority of the non-orientals (caucasians) that post here
>all tend to have an optimistic view on racism.  
So what wrong with a optimistic view on anything?
OK, WELL I'LL ADMIT I AM SICKENINGLY OPTIMISTIC!

>How can anyone who doesn't know what it feels like to be harassed based on
>there race/culture understand.
>It seems to me that anyone lacking first hand experience at being the
>receiving end of extreme racism and be able to offer advice hypocrites.
						^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Depends on the kind of advice and HOW its presented.
I'll listen to what anyone has to say.

TOYMWYA
From: lam@popeye.comm.mot.com (Dan Lam)
Subject: Re: Racism against WHITE in China??? (was Re: Caucasians don't understand
Organization: Land Mobile Products Sector, Motorola INC.
Date: Tue, 18 Aug 1992 21:09:30 GMT

In article <25554@dog.ee.lbl.gov> yjhbhc@dante.lbl.gov (Joe Huang) writes:
>This thread is drifting into soc.culture.china, but I can't resist
>traveller's tales :-) 
>
>In article <1992Aug17.221424.24709@u.washington.edu> chuan@milton.u.washington.edu (Chuan "infamous" Lee) writes:
>
>>1) I was asked to pay double for an entrance ticket because I 'dressed'
>>   like a foreigner, by an 60-year old women.  I paid the normal fare
>>   after I lied that I was from Canton, with my Cantonese-accent Mandarin.

Whem I was in Hawai, I found out that the local Hawaiians are given big
discounts purchasing tickets to some tourist attractions/events.  I dont
think this is fair to those of us coming from the mainland (US) and
other foreigners.

>>2) I tried to help 2 American students to get cheaper seats on a train
>>   from Shanghai to Xian.  The train captain insisted that all foreign
>>   'guests' must buy tickets for the luxury cabin, because "Aren't all
>>   American rich?"  After explaining the students' budget problem, for
>>   a long time and some back-padding (friendly gesture), I got the
>>   '2nd class' seats for the students.
>
My friend in Hawaii said that next time she should buy the tickets for
me so I can save some $.  I am uncomfortable about this because I sorta
feel like I am cheating the locals.

just a thought.

-Dan

Newsgroups: soc.culture.asian.american
From: IYI4DTN@MVS.OAC.UCLA.EDU (Gann Matsuda)
Subject: Re: Future of the Jpn. Amer. Community Conference
Date: 20 Aug 92 03:11:24 PDT

In my last post about the Future of the Nikkei Community Conference,
there was a typographical error in the address to send donations or
correspondence.  The correct address is:

50 Year Remembrance
244 S. San Pedro St., #507
Los Angeles, CA  90012

Sorry for the inconvenience!

Gann Matsuda
Coordinator
50th Anniversary of Japanese American Internment Project
UCLA Asian American Studies Center
From: chena@crs.cl.msu.edu (Antony Chen)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.asian.american
Subject: Re: Caucasians don't understand
Keywords: CWB
Date: 17 Aug 92 20:49:19 GMT
Organization: Michigan State University

timothyc@cory.Berkeley.EDU (Timothy J. Callahan) writes:

>I'm a white male.  And I've gotten scholarships & fellowships.
>And I know lots of other white males who have as well.  And I also
>know lots of minorities/women/disabled who have received these awards.
>And most of *them* are smarter than me.

>By the way, most Asian Americans are not considered "minorities" for
>most scholarships/fellowships since they are not "underrepresented"
>in academics, and therefore they get no special consideration.
>So AA males are just as oppressed in this respect as us poor 
>white males!

That's where TRUE racism lies.  Racism is treating someone different because
of something you didn't derive from them personally.  If you meet someone
and you find them to be an asshole, then that's one thing, but to shun
someone because of what they look like is racism.  I'm not about to preach
that we should all drop our ideas of affirmative action, but what I don't
understand is why grants and fellowships are NOT given for scolastic, but
instead, racial reasons?  I mean, if this society REALLY wants to extinguish
racism, then that's the only way.  To treat everyone as equals.  If you
didn't do well enough in school to get a scholarship, doesn't matter if you're
black, white, green, purple, yellow, etc.  You just don't get one 'cause
you were a lazy SOB who didn't work.  Now, I DO understand that a step like
this would shun people who live in poor communities who don't get good
educations, but then something has to be done about that.  See, from how
I see it, people are trying to fix somethin' that's already screwed up.
You take an inner city person whose school sucked, put him in a good
university and whaddya get?  A dropout who gets discouraged.  Fix the
system first and then we can handout grants and fellowships as they should
be handed out...on merit and scolastic achievement..not race
(just my two cents..:)

****************************************************************************
MMMMM      MMMMM  Antony Chen aka MELVIN @ University of Michigan, Ann Arbor
 MMMM      MMMM   GO BLUE!!  THE FAB 5 RULES: Mama said knock you out! 
 MMM MM  MM MMM   Mud-related mail: tonychen@engin.umich.edu
 MMM  MMMM  MMM      Personal mail: Antony.Chen@um.cc.umich.edu
 MMM   MM   MMM          Misc mail: tchen@churchst.ccs.itd.umich.edu
MMMMM      MMMMM  ***********************************************************
Newsgroups: soc.culture.asian.american
From: e199-ac@carina.berkeley.edu (Alexander Lee)
Subject: Re: "Caucasian" Re: Caucasians don't understand
Organization: University of California, at Berkeley
Date: Fri, 21 Aug 1992 05:12:54 GMT

In article <Bt0L97.9EC@undergrad.math.waterloo.edu> lchsu@cayley.uwaterloo.ca (Leon Hsu) writes:
>In article <7733@public.BTR.COM> timlee@btr.com (Timothy J. Lee) writes:
>>Last I looked at a map, the Caucasus mountains were not in India.
>>Nor are they more than a small part of the ancestral lands of
>>most white people.
>>
>>I mean, most asian people aren't from Mongolia, are they?
>
>You are truly N.K.
>How about reading a little bit of anthropology?
>
>-leon.
>

Actually, South Asians are a mix of predominantly two racial stocks,
the Aryans and the Drividians.  The Drividians are not mongoloid and 
neither are the Aryans.  The Aryans were a group of people from the
Caucus mountains.  When an intolerable winter set in, the Aryans split
up into two tribes, one that went south to form Iran, and the Other
to form what we now call Germany.  Later on in History, the Persians
Invaded India and introduced the Aryan gene into the South Asian 
gene pool.

Newsgroups: soc.culture.asian.american
From: maxim@milton.u.washington.edu (John Martin)
Subject: College Dating Question and more...
Organization: University of Washington, Seattle
Distribution: usa
Date: Wed, 12 Aug 1992 20:47:58 GMT



Okay I am back for some more punishment...

Preamble:

In my previous post (White Guys...) I said I read this group
to get a laugh.  I apologize for that remark.  It came across
pretty flippant.  But sometimes the who's dating who threads are
pretty humorous.  Especially when those two guys shchen & yazhao
start getting so foul mouthed towards women who date white guys.
I mean what's up with these two guys? 

And another thing.  Should I attach a complete resume' and
love-life and dating history each time I post to avoid or 
at least cut down on the 'geeky' white boy stuff in the re:'s?
 And in addition should I include several pages of footnotes and 
definitions explaining every point in my posts to help keep people from
jumping to conclusions that lead into personal attacks? :)


Now to my post...


Some of my Vietnamese friends tell me that the guys in the Vietnamese
families are discouraged from having girlfriends until they have
completed their college education, whereas the vietnamese daughters,
while not encouraged to have boyfriends, are not discouraged.  
 Is this true? And if so is it practiced in other asian cultures?


p. s.  Jim- I do have an obnoxious superior attitude that was impressed
        on me during my youth, but I am not racist or sexist, just
        generally superior.
        
-john

===========================================================
John P. Martin		     
University of Washington   &   Los Alamos Nat'l Labs 
Computer Engineering           P-15, MS D434
Seattle, WA                    Los Alamos, NM  87545
				(505)-665-7757
internet: jpm@pinex3.lanl.gov
===========================================================







Newsgroups: soc.culture.asian.american
From: lulu@troi.ucr.edu (david lu)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.asian.american
Subject: Re: Asian-American Guys Superior?
Date: 15 Aug 92 22:40:14 GMT
Organization: University of California, Riverside

Okay, all you AAF out there.  Now you know that all AAM's
out there don't want to date you.  But wait, there's still
hope.  I *like* AAF!!!  Give me a call!!!  :) :) :)

		1-800-LIKE-AAF   :) :) :)

Seriously, though.  I don't understand why there are AAM's
out there who won't date AAF.  I'd think that a guy would
go out with a girl more on personality (okay, okay, *looks*
is important, too :) than on skin color.  After all, if you
are planning on having any long-term plans with a girl, you
want someone with whom you can live with and talk to, and
not someone just for parading around.

			- David

-- 
---==lulu@ucrengr==---  just another bewildered college undergraduate.
David T Lu, Amateur Thinker: lulu@ucrengr.ucr.edu, {ucsd, uci}!ucrengr!lulu
"I seem to be having tremendous difficulty with my lifestyle."
					- Arthur Dent, Hitchhiker's
Newsgroups: soc.culture.asian.american
Newsgroups: soc.culture.asian.american,alt.culture.us.asian-indian
Subject: Re: friendships....
From: moh2@quads.uchicago.edu (Kateri/Mary Anne)
Date: Thu, 20 Aug 1992 13:41:43 GMT
Reply-To: moh2@midway.uchicago.edu
Organization: University of Chicago Computing Organizations

In article <1992Aug16.162728.23403@athena.mit.edu> tyadav@athena.mit.edu (Tapesh Yadav) writes:

>  In realm of thought then, friendship is in exploring mind, values.... It
>  is in deliberating about what is right, what is just, what is happiness,
>  what is virtue; how, why, where, when, whats of life, of purpose, of
>  meanings. It is in asking questions relentlessly, feeding on curiosity,
>  seeking with our finiteness the glory of the infinite, the unknown.....

Friendship is also not needing to ask questions...relaxing into the
comfort of the known. 

It's having people to depend on, and being depended on in turn.

It's doing favors without hesitation or thought for recompense.

It's perceiving the beauty in someone's soul that they can't see
themselves, and helping it become more clear to themselves and others.

>  I would agree, that all kinds of differences can (should) be respected 
>  in a fellow human being. But, in a friend, all "kinds" of differences 
>  can not be accepted. Agreement in certain core values and sense of life is
>  essential to sustain any relationship. 

We may not be able to accept all differences, but given a mutual
willingness to tolerate, I've found that friendship can build bridges
across an ocean of differences...perhaps the ocean separating the US
and India.  (just to bring this back to a
newsgroup.relevant.discussion :-)

>
> Do you disagree?
>
>T.Y.
>----

Not at all. :-)

 - Amirthi



-- 
The autumn leaves are falling like rain.
Although my neighbors are all barbarians,
And you, you are a thousand miles away,
There are always two cups at my table.		 - A T'ang Dynasty poem
From: moh2@quads.uchicago.edu (Kateri/Mary Anne)
Subject: Re: friendships....
Reply-To: moh2@midway.uchicago.edu
Organization: University of Chicago Computing Organizations
Date: Sun, 23 Aug 1992 01:35:18 GMT

In article <1992Aug20.172139.23140@novell.com> mvij@novell.com (Manish Vij) writes:

>ObACUA-I:  My parents and I have a continual argument over the meaning of
>friendship and its relationship with family.  They believe family is
>far more important than friends, and I agree with them in the sense that
>familial relationships tend to be much more stable.  Yet they go so far
>as to discourage spending time with friends because they see it as an
>intrusion upon spending time with family, as if it were a zero-sum game.
>I wonder if this is part of Indian culture or just my parents' personal
>views.

My parents and I argue about this all the time.  They claim that in
the end, the only people you can depend on are family.

This may work for some, but I've always gone to my friends for help
rather than my family.

My sister agrees with them, though....so maybe it's just me. :-)

>                                          /-\o /-()  -- -  --   -
>   Manish Vij    ::    '89 EX500          \_/ \\/ )  -- -    --
>   mvij@ocf.berkeley.edu                       |/_\  -- -  --   - 
>   mvij@novell.com                              \_/.  .  . . ........

 - Amirthi

-- 
The autumn leaves are falling like rain.
Although my neighbors are all barbarians,
And you, you are a thousand miles away,
There are always two cups at my table.		 - A T'ang Dynasty poem
From: mday@jukebox.lcs.mit.edu (Mark Day)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.asian.american
Subject: Re: Caucasians don't understand
Date: 14 Aug 92 22:13:33 GMT
	<MDAY.92Aug14115302@jukebox.lcs.mit.edu> <4860@dove.nist.gov>
Organization: MIT Laboratory for Computer Science


   hira@cme.nist.gov (Ron Hira) writes:

   Sometimes this author feels compelled to be rude and repetitive to get his
   point across. Sure, maybe there are no good scientific definitions to 
   race definitions; however, it is pretty common to lump Indians (or Desis 
   if you prefer) in with Caucasoids. So maybe some of these people in the 
   US will STOP using the word "caucasian" as a synonym for "white", and 
   asian american for oriental. Both uses are incorrect and the author wishes
   to identify a misuse as both annoying and insensitive.

OK.  So you admit that it is just "pretty common" to lump Desis in
with white people as "caucasoids".  And I observe that it's "pretty
common" to use "caucasian" as a synonym for "white".  But basically,
you have no grounds for claiming that your usage is any more "correct"
than all the people who you are yelling at in your rude and repetitive
way.

And I thought you'd been reading scaa long enough to know that
"oriental" is not considered acceptable by many people here.  I think
you may be trying to say that not all Asian Americans have East Asian
ancestry.

   Note that I'm a product of the much maligned U.S. public school system in 
   white middle class suburbia, and I learned all of this there.

Sheesh.  My condolences.  But this hardly strengthens your case.

--Mark Day

mday@lcs.mit.edu
Xref: sparky soc.culture.asian.american:8171 soc.motss:35702
From: booter@Autodesk.COM (Elaine Richards)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.asian.american,soc.motss
Subject: Re: AM/CM - Gay Colonialism?
Date: 19 Aug 92 00:24:32 GMT
Followup-To: soc.culture.asian.american
Organization: Autodesk, Inc., Sausalito, CA

In article <64177@cup.portal.com> Arthur_T_Hu@cup.portal.com writes:
>I was just looking throught the San Jose Metro, and there are now a
>bunch of Asian male listings seeking men -- not the 20% that Asians
>are of the population, but quite possibly the highest concentration of
>gay Asians in the country (think about it - where are all the
[etc]
>
>Should this brand of inter-racial partnership be banned because it is
>a form of sexual colonialism, or encourged since there should be no
>bars on any brand of fetishishism between consenting adults?


I don't know, Arthur. Maybe you can try it yourself and find out.


ER
--

---------------------------------------------------------------------------
"I can't help it, I was born sneering."
			-Pooh Bah
Newsgroups: soc.culture.asian.american
From: jj@alice.att.com (jj, clueless old white boy)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.asian.american
Subject: Re: Perceptions, Realities, Perceptions
Date: 21 Aug 92 13:42:41 GMT
Article-I.D.: alice.23511
Reply-To: jj@alice.UUCP (jj, clueless old white boy)
Organization: NJ State Home for Bewildered Terminals

In article <5010@dove.nist.gov> hira@cme.nist.gov writes:
>Just one question. When does the inaction by most whites that you describe 
>become complicity?

You truly don't understand, do you?  They have no more power
than you.  What do you expect them to do? Have their lives
ruined?  Perhaps that would be the "moral" thing to do, but I don't
think whites are any different than any other group when it comes
to survival of the individual.

What do you think they can do that you can't?
-- 
 Bush    *Copyright alice!jj 1992, all rights reserved, except transmission
   vs       *by USENET and like facilities granted.      Said permission is
 Clinton  --    *granted only for complete copies that include this notice.
 Just Say !NO!       *Use on pay-for-read services specifically disallowed.
Newsgroups: soc.culture.asian.american
From: clare@nynexst.com (Clare Chu)
Subject: Re: Perceptions, Realities, Perceptions
Organization: Nynex Science and Technology
Date: Mon, 17 Aug 92 17:02:14 GMT

In article <23461@alice.att.com> jj@alice.UUCP (jj, clueless old white boy) writes:
>In article <1992Aug14.123933.26538@nynexst.com> clare@nynexst.com (Clare Chu) writes:
>>In article <23448@alice.att.com> jj@alice.UUCP (jj, clueless old white boy) writes:
>>>not ever.  In a very real sense, I'm no more white than you are.
>
>I wouldn't get
>past the "what is your family", "how much is in your trust fund",
>and "which are you, a doctor or a lawyer" stage before I'd
>be flying bodily out of the facilities.  In case its not
>clear, I still occasionaly deal with this feces.
>
>they'd be very careful to find out who "daddy" was, why
>I was where I was, where I was born, how much money was in
>my trust fund, etc, etc.  You can guess how long I'd be permitted
>to stick around.

  Well at least you got asked about your supposed trust fund.
  I've never even been around such circles to be not permitted
  to stick around!
>
>>  because you can "pass". 
>Yeah, perhaps slightly, but the difference between
>1e-6 and 1.00001e-6 is sorta meaningless. I can't pass
>the "so, JJ, where were YOUR parents invested during the 
>'39 crash" <say what?  in Republic Steel, getting
>occupational diseases? Nah, that won't work> quiz.
>You (yes, I'm sure of this) can pass much easier
>because you're "not American" to them, and they don't
>                 ^    ^^^^  Quotes of contempt.  I'm no more American to them,
>                            just ask George Bush
>EXPECT you to have a history of investment and (?in?)breeding
>back to 1800.

  You're right.  They won't even get close enough to me
  to ask about my parent's stock portfolio.  I'm not even
  in the vicinity of people who hold these contempts.
  They spot me a mile away and cross the street.
  
>Yes, really.  As a female, you have an enormous
>advantage.  Now, as a male, you wouldn't.  (Then again,
>I think you'd wrap a baby stroller around most such
>available males within 5 minutes, but that's another
>of their attitude problems I'm referring to now.)

  I beg to defer.  I don't see how I'd care to wrap
  baby strollers around any such hapless males within
  5 minutes.  9 months of pregnancy isn't something I
  go through just for the fun of it, and I won't do
  it for just anybody.  It's much easier for you as a
  male to wrap baby strollers around available females 
  in 5 minutes flat.
>
>
>>In article <23448@alice.att.com> jj@alice.UUCP (jj, clueless old white boy) writes:
>I repeat, *in*practice*, I'm no more "white" than
>Andy, Clare, Jim, Gary, or probably Ed Hall, for
>that matter. Ed- You  old money, Guy? :-)

JJ's definition of white/black:

White:  Anybody with old money who can trace themselves back to the
		Mayflower, or the signers of the Declaration of Independence.

Black:  Everyone else.

By the way, wasn't there a fella named JJ on an old sitcom, Good Times?