HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: kxd5425@usl.edu (Du Kaisheng)
Subject: Re: MFN under Clinton's administration
Organization: University of Southwestern Louisiana
Date: Tue, 10 Nov 1992 17:46:08 GMT

In article <wshi.721351145@ponder> wshi@ponder.csci.unt.edu (Weiping Shi) writes:
>In <1992Nov8.234942.9313@usl.edu> kxd5425@usl.edu (Du Kaisheng) writes:
>
>>If you think that the rights to have elementary education and the right to
>>have at least some food to eat, a shelter to live in are not part of human
>>right, we do not have any common ground to discuss this problem. Your "
>>human right" is too fancy for me to understant.
>
>I bet the other guy is right, that human right does not
>include food and shelter.  Haven't you understand that human
>right does not equal to "human's basic right"?

Sorry I don't understand. I think I am still living in a much uneducated world
in which food and shelters are more important than an empty slogan.


Newsgroups: talk.politics.china
From: C0370@UNIVSCVM.BITNET
Subject: (none)
Reply-To: C0370@UNIVSCVM.BITNET
Organization: Indiana University
Date: Thu, 5 Nov 1992 14:40:23 GMT
Comments: To: "NY." <yue@MOHLSUN.PHYSICS.UPENN.EDU>,

On Tue, 3 Nov 1992 16:17:41 EST you said:
>>From: "JAMES J. CEN" <phsjjc@EMRYCC.CC.EMORY.EDU>
>>Subject:      Forward: Shen Tong? (VIII)
>......
>>"One of the most important elements of democracy is not to interfere
>>others, not to bring troubles to others," Dai said.
>......
>MS.QING DAI used to (still now?) critisize harshly Director Zhang Yimou of his
>moives. She accused him of trading dirts of China for applause of foreigners.
>Did she interfere Mr.Zhang?

To me, they are quite different issues. 1) Ms. Dai criticized (not accused)
Mr. Zhang in public media. 2) Her critique did not jeopardize Mr. Zhang's
career. In fact, Mr. Zhang has never been arrested because of Ms. Dai's
comments. He was, and still is a successful director. Contrarily, Mr. Shen's
activity did put those people who he interviewed during his political trip
in China in jeopardy.
Newsgroups: talk.politics.china
From: wshi@ponder.csci.unt.edu (Weiping Shi)
Subject: Re: Chinese, Are You Jealous?
Organization: University of North Texas
Date: Wed, 11 Nov 1992 19:34:11 GMT

In article <BxGLpG.8Hn@cs.psu.edu> jyw@phys.psu.edu (Jin-Yuan Wu) writes:
> There is a Chinese who skipped his lunch when he read "Congradulations Bill" 
> on the screen and held his mouth for 10 min. to avoid blowing his 
> breakfast out. Please observe others health before posting something 
> which should be kept in private.

This guy is really big-fuss-small-strange. After the
Propection Bill (I mean bill, not Bill) passed,
there are letters sent to Eddie and Nancy, didn't you see?
Newsgroups: talk.politics.china
From: "(Xiaowen Li)" <LIX@CRSA.BITNET>
Subject:      Re: MFN under Clinton's administration
Reply-To: "(Xiaowen Li)" <LIX@CRSA.BITNET>
Organization: Indiana University
Date: Fri, 6 Nov 1992 04:29:41 GMT
Comments: To: CHINA-NT@uga.cc.uga.edu

GaoGan JH Li wrote:
>No one knows what will President Clinton do on MFN, yet.  But every
>indication tells us that a CMFN is very likely in the near future.

I am not sure about that because of lack of inside information. One
can't take Clinton's words in champaign very seriously. Because when
you are not a GaoGan, you can pick only single principle to attack
your rival GaoGan. But when you are a GaoGan, you have to balance many
principles and compromise among many interest groups. That is quite
different, we have to wait and see.

>The question now is NOT how to justify non-condition-mfn's rightness,
>rather, how to do the following two things:

    1.  push the Chinese Government act: respect human rights, release
        all (at least all 64 related) political prisoners, gurantee
        each and every oversea CSS's freedom when they go back, and etc;

Sounds quite reasonable. But "release all" is something CG can't swallow,
I think. It almost means a restructure of power machine. If anything is
related to power, you know, look at Zhao HaiQing and Gen Xiao:-)

So if we really want to push, I suggest we work case by case. For example,
Mr. Xiao Bin. It is so clearly unfair, but very few speak for him.

I have never authorized IFCSS to represent me before (don't argue with me,
Sizhong:-) But this time, for the only purpose above, I authorize GaoGan
JingHong Li to count me as one who would give up green card (I came before
4-11), go back to do my academic work silently if CG can make some obvious
progress in release of 6-4 related prisoners, such as to re-evaluate the case
of Mr. Xiao Bin.
Organization: Penn State University
Date: Mon, 9 Nov 1992 23:08:44 EST
From: <SXS30@psuvm.psu.edu>
Newsgroups: talk.politics.china
Subject: Re: china-nt: Homeworks

In article <BxGw7E.AoA@usenet.ucs.indiana.edu>, Ying Tang <Ying.Tang.2@ND.EDU>
says:
>
>Dear Netters:
>As a matter of fact, we did some homework about MFN. My husband went
>back to China Feb. 92, he went to 4 cities: Beijing, Tianjin, Nanjing
>and Xi an. He visited five factories several companies and some acadmic
>institutions and met different level of people: workers, teachers,
>professors etc., asked them about the opinons towards the MFN and what
>CSS in US did for MFN.  Only 2% of them said that they didn't care,
>other 98% said they didn't want CMFN to be passed, they HATED what some
>of CSS did in US.

  It's maybe ture that majority of ordinary will care about their own
  interests instead of human right. etc. But majority nomally won't be
  counted in political games, especialy in a country of China.
  I believe only less than 1% people in China holding "Kan3To2Bu2Yao4Jin3
  Zhi3Yao3Zu3Yi4Zhen1" in old China. But CCP win the civial war. _0)


>
>One worker told my husband that if China lost MFN,
>he could only get 55% of the salaries, also did other 3000 people in
>his factory. He said human right is a good thing, but if it would affect
>people's living, they don't need it, and they don't care. He said "you
>guys in America, you don't need worry about the eating, living..., if
>you want to stay there, stay, don't bother people here, I gusse you
>guys have nothing to do because of eat to much (Chi1 bao3 le cheng1 de).

   Well, it is a typical wrong idea of how America life is, look at
  Lu Gang, he had to worry more than he had in China.  -)

>
>Democracy means you should do what majoraty wants, there is no doubt
>that if we let the people in China (not here) chose either they want
>CMFN or MFN, majority will chose MFN because that's the best

  Agree, however it is very hard to have a investigation conducted
  fairly on this issue. If you tell folks in countryside human right
  means "free of Hu4Kou3", I am sure 95% will support it -).

Newsgroups: talk.politics.china
From: pan@auvax1.adelphi.edu
Subject: Re: Dai Qing's cheap talk
Organization: Adelphi University, Garden City NY
Date: Tue, 10 Nov 1992 20:12:54 GMT

In article <9211080051.AA11076@neptune.ctr.columbia.edu>, yjj@ctr.columbia.edu (Yuan Jiang) writes:
> Words from Dai Qing are to cheap.
> 
>>3. Dai Qing: China's Most-Favored-Nation Trade Status Necessary ......... 60
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>By: George Zhu
>>Source: CND, 11/3/92
> 
>>CAMBRIDGE, Mass. -- Dai Qing, a leading Chinese journalist and writer, said
>>in an interview on Oct. 28 that the United States should continue its
>>most-favored-nation trade status to China "for the sake of ordinary Chinese
> 
> The conditional granting MFN bill will only remove the tariff benefit from
> the government owned companies.  It will not hurt the private enterprise
> and business.  it will promote private enterprise in China.
> 
>>"Since I did what I did, I should bear its consequences," Dai emphasized.
> 
> What kind of jail did she go?  Of course she could bear the consequences.
> What a cheap talk.  Can she bear the kind of jail Wei Jinsheng, Liu Qing
> and many otehrs have been?

I will say your arguments are cheap and ignorant because you even don't know
there are the great majority of Chinese ordinary people work for the company
owned by government in China. If the CMFN was imposed on China, who would be 
going to be hurt, majority or minority ? 

> 
-- 
***********************************************************************************
				* 	
Pan, Yaoling			* Internet Address: pan@auvax1.adelphi.edu
Adelphi University		* Telephone: (516) 877-3353 (O)
Academic Computing Center	*            (516) 742-7439 (H)
Computer Lab Assistant		* Fax: (516) 877-3341
				*
********************************************************************************




Newsgroups: talk.politics.china
From: "Ignatius Ding" <ding@HPSMTC1.CUP.HP.COM>
Subject:      Name and Address of A Research Org. in IL
Reply-To: "Ignatius Ding" <ding@HPSMTC1.CUP.HP.COM>
Organization: Indiana University
Date: Thu, 12 Nov 1992 20:31:24 GMT
Comments: To: Dennis.D.Lee@Eng.Sun.COM, donovan@csl.sri.com, hknet@cs.wisc.edu,
              ho@mips.com, ifcss%WAM.UMD.EDU@uga.cc.uga.edu,
              joseph_ng%5y@hp0200.desk.hp.com, jung_lin%40@hp1900.desk.hp.COM,
              sdc@longhorn.Corp.sun.com, ggach@pandora.sf.ca.us,
              xwu@janus.Berkeley.EDU, cnd-us@sdsc.edu,
              melody@hpsmtc1.cup.hp.com, jchu@hpsmtc1.cup.hp.com,
              wuling@s1.msi.umn.edu, li@perry.berkeley.edu,
              jyee@eclair.berkeley.edu, Isaac.Chen@Eng.Sun.COM,
              ide!ide.com!cai@uunet.UU.NET, wwang@mail1.cis.umn.edu,
              china-nt@uga.cc.uga.edu, nguyen@drutx.att.com,
              china@diva.berkeley.edu

Dear friends,


The research organization that is dedicated to study the history of the
Japanese aggression against China turns out to be in Carbondale, IL.  Many of
the researchers are also faculties of the Department of History, Southern
Illinois University at Carbondale.  The name and address of this organization
are as follows:

   Society for Studies of Japanese Aggression Against China (SSJAC)
   110 Mark Court, Carbondale, IL 62901
   Phone: (618) 549-4993

They publish an excellent quarterly journal, The Journal of Studies of Japanese
Aggression Against China, which is the best periodical in this field published
by an independent research organization.  Subscription of this journal will
help to fund the project in the future and the articles in each issue are very
revealing and educational.  It is in both English and Chinese.  Some are even
in Japanese if the contributing authors are Japanese.  I strongly recommend
you to subscribe this journal.  It costs $20 per year for individuals and $60
per year for institutions.  Write check to SSJAC at the adress above.  Please
also indicate your personal interest of study or research.  Furthermore, please
refer the organization and its publication to your friends and other
organizations, including colleges and libraries in your area.


Ignatius Y. Ding

ps.  Please e-mail me your fax number if you wish to join SSJAC.  I can fax you
     a copy of their membership registration form.
From: s245@cs.utexas.edu (Spring Class Account)
Newsgroups: talk.politics.china
Subject: Re: What CMFN can accomplish? (Re: MFN under Clinton Administration)
Date: 10 Nov 1992 10:27:12 -0600
Organization: CS Dept, University of Texas at Austin
NNTP-Posting-Host: nada.cs.utexas.edu

In article <1992Nov10.013333.1778@netcom.com> kemnitz@netcom.com (Greg Kemnitz) writes:
>
>Remember that Bush was personally and directly involved with the Nixon
>opening to China.  Clinton and the new Administration have no such loyalties.
>The PRC will have to get used to a harder line from the US and know that the
 ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>number of friends it has in the US government has decreased trememdously, to
>its lowest level since the 1960's.
>
>-----------------------------------------------------------------------
>Greg Kemnitz                 

The overwhelming majority of the Chinese people hope this will never happen.

Both the Chinese people and the American people want better Sino-US relations.

------------------------------------------------------------------------

However, should what you have said happen during the Clinton administration,

at least a trade war which neither side wants will be inevitable, and everyone

knows which side will fire the first shot.

The action taken by the US will be considered as an attempt to dominate China

by the Chinese people.  


Newsgroups: talk.politics.china
From: "(NY.)" <yue@MOHLSUN.PHYSICS.UPENN.EDU>
Subject:      Re: china-nt: Homeworks
Reply-To: "(NY.)" <yue@MOHLSUN.PHYSICS.UPENN.EDU>
Organization: Indiana University
Date: Tue, 10 Nov 1992 02:58:07 GMT
Comments: To: china-nt@uga.cc.uga.edu

>From Ying Tang
   The statistics of the poll of the "ordinary" people in China on the CMFN
issue really depends on how the questions were raised to them. I don't
believe many ordinary people in China know the issue at all.
   If the question was raised in this way: CMFN=fewer food and lower salary
like that simple, certainly many of them would oppose the CMFN. But I don't
believe the equation is really that simple.
   If those "ordinary" people were told that many CSS in USA were trying to
push Uncle Sam to punish Chinese people, to lower their living standard for a
"pure democracy", certainly they would hate the CSS and cursed them to death.
But I don't believe those CSS who are for CMFN are doing that.
   So my point is that it really depends upon how they (the ordinary people)
were surveyed and told. The different way to ask a same question will result
in a totally different outcome.
Newsgroups: talk.politics.china,soc.culture.china
From: rsanders@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (RRobert M Sanders)
Subject: Re: Patriotism is the Opium of the Mass (was Re: Chinese, Are You Jeal
Organization: The Ohio State University
Date: Sun, 8 Nov 1992 17:45:27 GMT

"Shi Chunde is now the most patriotic person in China." should be changed to 
"Shi Chunde is now the most patriotic Chinese living outside of China."
Newsgroups: talk.politics.china,soc.culture.china
From: lwang@esk.compserv.utas.edu.au (Luo  Wang)
Subject: Re: Patriotism is the Opium of the Mass (was Re: Chinese, Are You Jealous)
Organization: University of Tasmania at Launceston
Date: Mon, 9 Nov 92 08:04:10 GMT

In article <BxEpMs.5C8@usenet.ucs.indiana.edu>, xlli@silver.ucs.indiana.edu (xiao-lin li) writes:
>
>In article <BxDLGH.2wq@ulowell.ulowell.edu> cshi@cs.ulowell.edu (Chunde Shi) writes:
>>>Patriotism is the opium of the mass.
>>You "D-fighters", you even radicule patriotism. leave my country alone!
>
>Hitler was the most patriotic person in Germany.
>Joseph R. McCarthy was the most patriotic person in America.
>Shi Chunde is now the most patriotic man in China.
>




Oops!

I think Xiao-lin Li has made a serious mistake to link Shi Chunde with Hitler
and Joseph R. McCarthy. He will certainly take it as praise.

Luo Wang
From: 5546yuj@vms.csd.mu.edu
Newsgroups: talk.politics.china
Subject: Re: the congratulation letter to Clinton
Date: 7 Nov 1992 20:14:24 GMT
Organization: Marquette University - Computer Services
Reply-To: 5546yuj@vms.csd.mu.edu
NNTP-Posting-Host: vmsa.csd.mu.edu

In article <BxBB4w.4CD@acsu.buffalo.edu>, xiaofei@acsu.buffalo.edu (XiaoFei Wang) writes:
>/* jwh3@po.CWRU.Edu (Junwei W. Hou) wrote */:
>* 
>*      It's so astonishingly true that a near-insane ego, an "ex-"
>* title, plus liar-style "competence" could make a "hero" in not-
>* quite-so-few CSS's minds where the greatness of this nation seems
>* shy away from the shameless words and deeds of the "hero". 
>*  
>*                                    Junwei
>
>I am not a law student so I have great difficulty in understand complex
>sentences. I would appreciate it if some genius could translate the
>sentence so that I could also understand. 
>
>:wq
>.

I agree.

JY
Newsgroups: talk.politics.china
From: cshi@cs.ulowell.edu (Chunde Shi)
Subject: Re: Patriotism is the Opium of the Mass (was Re: Chinese, Are You Jealous)
Organization: University of Massachusetts at Lowell Computer Science
Date: Sun, 8 Nov 1992 03:52:08 GMT

In article <100990@bu.edu> lix@thames.bu.edu (Xiaowen Li) writes:
>Well, I have got a lot of good points recently.
>
>Xiaolin: China has not got a democracy system, shame on you, old Chinese!
>Eddie: We have to practice and imrove it graduately, we have some non-zero
>       starting point.
>Ya-Gui: Patriotism is the opium of the mass.
>
>Can't help adding mine in:
>
>Lix: Green card is the best cure.
>
>Any more?
Push the buttons of U.S. papa' nuke missles aimed at China. There would be no 
problems for China.
>-- 


Newsgroups: talk.politics.china,soc.culture.china
From: shicheng@wam.umd.edu (Shicheng Jiang)
Subject: Re: Patriotism is the Opium of the Mass (was Re: Chinese, Are You Jealous)
Organization: University of Maryland, College Park
Date: Sun, 8 Nov 1992 16:54:18 GMT

In article <BxDJAL.9Eq@usenet.ucs.indiana.edu> yawei@bronze.ucs.indiana.edu (~{QG9p~}) writes:
>
>Patriotism is the opium of the mass.
>
>    Ya-Gui Wei
>

Agree.

Some Chinese are poisoned so badly that they think they are still in good
health though they know nothing but CCP = China. When CCP puts its
interests over their brothers' and sisters' and their own basic human rights,
they still feel happy, because they think they are patriots.

I call this case "Happy Being Fooled".

Poor "patriots".

--Shicheng
From: zg11@ellis.uchicago.edu (zening  ge)
Newsgroups: talk.politics.china
Subject: Re: "HOME" work
Date: 12 Nov 92 22:14:29 GMT
Reply-To: zg11@midway.uchicago.edu
Distribution: usa
Organization: University of Chicago Computing Organizations

In article <BxFKA5.L27@usenet.ucs.indiana.edu> "JAMES J. CEN" <phsjjc@EMRYCC.CC.EMORY.EDU> writes:
>"(Ming Cheng)" <cheng@CS.BUFFALO.EDU> writes:
>
>>if IFCSS really cares about Chinese people," (using some netter's wording)
>>IFCSS may need to do some other kind of HOME work, go back to China and ask
>>the common Chinese people if they want CMFN or MFN, or how do they think of
>>IFCSS (its mission are for Chinese ... ...) if China lost MFN and IFCSS took
>>it as a risk it can stand. ( most of us will not take the risk to go back
>>China for good and benefit from green card bill).
>>As a democracy Org.( not a savor)  of Chinese, IFCSS has to do what the most
...

I agree with this article. None of the overseas Chinese organizations
has the right to affect the US government's decision on this matter. They
can only do one thing: expressing the oppinions from the mainland people
to the future Clinton administration. 

CMFN -- No!
MFN -- Yes!
Newsgroups: talk.politics.china,soc.culture.china
From: yawei@bronze.ucs.indiana.edu (~{QG9p~})
Subject:  D-fighters in the U.S. :-)
Organization: Indiana University
Date: Sun, 8 Nov 1992 22:11:33 GMT


Found this in rec.travel ...  Gee, they have D-fighters in the U.S.
too. :-)  [Wonder where they learnt all the stuff from.]  :-)


>From: gina@rintintin.colorado.edu (Gina Cherry)
>Subject: Help Preserve Civil Rights in Colorado
>Message-ID: <1992Nov7.065556.26635@ucsu.Colorado.EDU>
>Followup-To: amend2-mod.cs.colorado.edu
>
>As many of you probably know, on Tuesday, Colorado voted in an
>amendment to their state constitution which revokes any existing
>gay/lesbian/bisexual civil rights legislation and prohibits the
>drafting of any new legislation.  The amendment was spearheaded by a
>right-wing organization inappropriately self-named Colorado Family
>Values (CFV).  It is our understanding that they have no intention of
>stopping their hate campaign here; they intended to push for
>legislation with a stronger discriminatory flavor here in Colorado and
>surrounding states.
>
>What can you do?
>
>1. Stay informed... two mail/news groups have been created in response 
>   to this discriminatory amendment. 

 ...  ...
 
>2. Contact Governor Roy Romer to express your outrage.

 ... ...

>3. Boycott Colorado-made products (the most common of which are
>   probably meat and beer) and Colorado tourism (yes, this means skiing).


  What about the human rights of the people in the meat and beer
  industry?  :-)   [What about the cow rights in the meat industry,
  for that matter?]  :-)


>4. Contact the Colorado Tourism Board and the Colorado Association of
>   Commerce and Industry to express your disdain:

 ... ...

>6. Contact your Senators and Congressional representatives to tell


  Running dogs!  Interfering with Colorado's internal affairs! :-)

 ... ...



Newsgroups: talk.politics.china
From: Yuan M Jiang <ymj1@CUNIXB.CC.COLUMBIA.EDU>
Subject:      Re:  MAY ADJUST STRATEGY?? on MFN
Reply-To: Yuan M Jiang <ymj1@CUNIXB.CC.COLUMBIA.EDU>
Organization: Indiana University
Date: Thu, 5 Nov 1992 17:58:32 GMT
Comments: To: CHINA-NT@uga.cc.uga.edu

>became the president, China may lost his MFN status under Clinton's
>>for what reason, the China's democracy and Human right progress may even be

I hope people understand the current CMFN bill better before we discuss
about strategy.

1) The current bill does remove MFN tariff benefit to products from
PRIVATE owned manufactures if CCP fail to improve human rights condition.
2) It only impose higher tariff to government owned companies.

Think about it.  The government owned companies either have to privatize
or have to pay the private companies to export to the US.
This is a double edged sword.  China's economy will win either way.
It will either improve the human rights situation or expand
the private business in China.

I hope people can study the new bill and throw away the misconception
that the CMFN bill will hurt Chinese economy.
Newsgroups: talk.politics.china
From: yawei@bronze.ucs.indiana.edu (~{QG9p~})
Subject: Re: Patriotism is the Opium of the Mass (was Re: Chinese, Are You Jealous)
Organization: Indiana University
Date: Mon, 9 Nov 1992 03:28:17 GMT

In article <(~{5K6,F=~})DENG.92Nov8180335@math12.bunny.rhic.bnl.gov> deng@bunny.rhic.bnl.gov (~{5K6,F=~}) writes:

>  Yawei> Let's not forget that the episode in Beida was anything but the 
>  Yawei> norm in China. Not to mention that what happened in Beida during
>  Yawei> and after the "election incident" was not exactly in the spirit
>  Yawei> of free competition either.

>Here's a story I heard about a candidate from our department in 1980. He
>was assigned to a remote area after graduation, he flatly refused to report
>to his job and went back to his hometown and started to make a living on
>his own.

I heard that's what happened to some of the Beida candidates as well. In 
fact that's one of the things that I referred to in my last sentence above.

What happened in Beida was an isolated incident, it was not the norm in
China, it wasn't even the norm in most other universities and wasn't the
norm in Beida's later elections, -- you can't deny these facts.  I knew 
that it also happened in a few other universities.  And I knew that it
didn't happen where I was from.  The election in our area was later
than Beida and Zheda (and Hunan U? -- not too sure), and the political 
advisors were quick enough to warn any potential trouble makers before-hand.

>  Yawei> a box.  When opposition parties cannot legally exist, when there
>  Yawei> is no freedom of speech for anyone not going with the official
>  Yawei> line, there is no such thing as a "vote", not in my book, no sir.
>
>It's not NECESSARILY true that the existence of opposition parties will
>guarantee your desired quoted "vote", whatever that means. 

No, of course not.  But insuring that there will not be any organized
opposition (while the incumbant party is highly organized) certainly
guarantees that there will NOT be a fair vote.

   Ya-Gui Wei


Newsgroups: talk.politics.china
From: "Ignatius Y. Ding" <ding@HPSMTC1.CUP.HP.COM>
Subject:      Re: HongKongNet
Reply-To: "Ignatius Y. Ding" <ding@HPSMTC1.CUP.HP.COM>
Organization: Indiana University
Date: Thu, 5 Nov 1992 23:01:44 GMT
Comments: cc: china-nt@uga.cc.uga.edu

>
> Hi! Did anyone of you has heard of HongKongNet?
>

Yes, it is ===> hknet@cs.wisc.edu

There is also a news server for ahkcus (Alliance of Hong Kong Chinese in the
United States): members%ahkcus.org@diva.berkeley.edu


Ignatius Ding
SVDC Communications