From: zobell@lute.mitre.org (Steve Zobell)
Subject: Re: QUESTION
Reply-To: zobell@lute.mitre.org (Steve Zobell)
Organization: The MITRE Corporation, McLean, Va
Date: Thu, 15 Oct 1992 18:05:13 GMT

In article <1992Oct13.233515.8308@macc.wisc.edu> bunner@vms.macc.wisc.edu (Dana A. Bunner) writes:
>In article <1992Oct12.145920.6119@linus.mitre.org>, zobell@lute.mitre.org (Steve Zobell) writes...
>>You can start by examining both sides of the Mormon question.  One of
>>my favorite issues in Mormonism is the exclusion of black men from
>>holding the priesthood.  The church finally reversed this decision
>>which had become a public relations nightmare in the wake of civil
>>rights, I think it was sometime in the 70's.  I've asked Mormons about
>>this, and their answer generally was that God had his reasons that we
>>may not understand and that some spirits may not have been as worthy as
>>others.  This all absolutely fails my goodness test! 
>
>Surprise, surprise, I agree with you.  I have studied this issue at
>length and attribute the teaching to human failings.  The current
>practice of granting the priesthood to all males was instituted in 1978
>(I believe ... don't have a reference with me).  A glorious day.  

I am indeed very surprised.  What you are saying is that the J. Smith,
and the majority of Mormon presidents, have falsely promoted their racial
hatred of blacks as inspired church doctrine?  I've never heard such a
thing from a Mormon.  Have you told your Bishop that you've made a
public statement about this?  He may want to excommunicate you!  A few
years ago, your future in the Mormon church would have been sealed by
this statement and it may still be!

How can we now judge any doctrine of the church?  Where else does
Joseph Smith's prejudices, opinions, and personal desires invade
inspired doctrine?  Polygamy is obviously another case where what Joe's
desires became the word of God.  It's apparent to anyone who critically
examines the facts that Joe Smith created a religion so he could have
money (10% tithing), power (ability to speak for God and have
unquestioning followers), and sex (polygamy).  A true God who desires
followers would not have allowed the liability of a spokesman who
harbors racial hatred and seeks the worldly desires of sex, power, and
money.

Oddly, if somehow the Mormon church happens to be true, J. Smith, B.
Young, and other early leaders of the church have done incredible harm
to the cause, more than any of us Mormon detractors is capable of.
They have, through their desire for sex and their racial hatred,
discouraged millions who may have otherwise found their way to God.
Don't tell me that none better than Smith was available, because he
could not begin to compare to a man like Gandhi, who sacrificed
worldly pleasures for his cause and was admired by many of his
enemies.

>Now
>we can work on fixing the rest of the equation.  (let's see what this
>paragraph brings about in t.r.m.  ... perhaps I should demand equal 
>time from the "Christians" for at least one of them to admit something
>in Mormonism doesn't sound all that bad)

OK, what else needs to be fixed in the Mormon church?

Andie, if your are still reading what you have started, I want to tell
you that unless one can identify lies, one will never find the truth.
I think that identifying lies is the most important ability for the
truth seeker.  Without this ability, one needs incredible luck to fall
on the truth.  Identifying lies is hard, our background and upbringing
can obscure lies and people we trust can unknowingly promote lies.  An
uncovered lie is a precious thing, it can save you from wasting your
life and from straying from the cause of truth.  

Religious people often cannot face the uncovered lies in their beliefs
and will rationalize to recover the lies and protect their precious
view of existence.  Here Dana has taken the most important step of
recognizing the lie, but refuses to see that the lie leads to more lies
and unravels the whole deception.  You don't get enough opportunities
to expose lies that you can afford to waste any like this!

An open mind is important to eventually find truth, but skepticism is
needed too, to avoid the lies.  The truth will hold up to a little
skepticism.

If you have the time to read the books by Mormon authors in Dana's
list, as well as like number of books by non-Mormon authors, by all
means do so (I suggest you start with some non-Mormon authors since
you've already been exposed to the other viewpoint!).  I don't have
that much time to devote to every religion on earth!

-- Steve
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