From: cleggp@aix.rpi.edu (Paul Jason Clegg)
Subject: Re: Let's talk REAL sci-Fi systems
Keywords: The best
Organization: Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute, Troy, NY
Date: Fri, 11 Sep 1992 00:30:04 GMT

In article <BuDznu.2IE@acsu.buffalo.edu> v057qkmm@ubvmsb.cc.buffalo.edu (BABBLING SAGE) writes:
>In article <j+6y!zd@rpi.edu>, cleggp@aix.rpi.edu (Paul Jason Clegg) writes...
>>In article <BuC6KL.Fpw@acsu.buffalo.edu> v057qkmm@ubvmsd.cc.buffalo.edu (Bluerazor) writes:
>>I rather liked Twilight:  2000 (at least, 1st edition) for its combat system.
>>Quick, accurate, and deadly, while still retaining simplicity.  I ONCE
>>calculated the damage done by a 40mm HE grenade that hit an enemy in the
>>head.  It was not nice.  I had two of six characters put out of action by
>>simple shots to the arms, from pistol fire.  And no one walks around like
>>a veritable tank in armor from hell.
>
>	grenade to the head: quite fatal in most cases. helmet can save
>you, if its a hi-tech device.
>	Pistol shots to arm: critical hits to can cause unconsciouness;
>	so this is a definite possibility.
>	Armor from hell: It's high tech, and it costs a lot. And your enemies
>will have it too.

Look, they use 40mm grenades to punch holes in tanks, and it's explosive.  If
it hits you in the HEAD, I don't give a damn WHAT helmet you got on, if the
helmet isn't solidly attached to the rest of your bodyarmor, and NOT jointed
(yeah, right), then you're going to be SOL when the explosive force decides
to rend your head away from your body.  It don't happen that way.  Ask Simms
he was in the "army"...


Armor from hell:  The fact that EVERYONE has it IS the problem!


>>I don't doubt it.  However, I have one complaint already:  I had been
>>led to believe that Simms' main idea behind BattleLords was to keep 
>>everything in one book, "so that people don't have to buy tons of
>>accessories".  And if he would have put as much effort in making a 
>>COMPLETE set of rules as he has for equipment, I wouldn't be complaining
>>at ALL at this point.
>> 
>
>	You CAN play the game without LockNLoad. It's a supplement.
>	No one said there wouldn't be any support material!
>
>>>	No space combat system? Of course not - its still under development 
>>>because when its released it will be the BEST. Can't fit it into a 250-page
>>>rulebook which already explains the basics.
>> 
>>And no "Real" vehicle rules, no "real" computers rules, no "real" robot rules.
>
>	Well, admittedly the vehicle rules are a patch. Computer rules
>are foun in LockNLoad, and only for body computers. And robots are also
>a patch. However, two points:
>
>	1> Most people add something of their own to a game. Most GMs can
>improvise rules and background, and there is no game which can completely 
>cover every situation.
>	2> Again, the vehicles and robots wouldnt fit. expect all of those
>things in a supplement.
>

So you admit then, that you're completely clueless, and utterly lost?  You've
just contradicted yourself BIG TIME.  "No one said there wouldn't be any
support material", but then vehicles and robots are supposed to become a
supplement?  If you want a loyal consumer base, you can't go off half-cocked
without having worked as much out as possible.  You can't sell off volume A,
say it's complete, then turn around with volume B as a "just about as close
to necessary as need be discussed" book, and expect people to go for it.

And from what I've seen, it appears that all you U of Buffalo people are 
actually gaming under Simms.  I played a game under Simms, and I've got some
points on his playing style you ought to take note of.

Simms is a half-decent GM, and only that.  He's very good at remembering (his)
rules, but he has a definite problem with understanding the "common sense"
concept.  Example:  We were in a city, and we were going to go into this guy's
house to see if he was okay (we were supposed to pick up a briefcase).  I
told Larry I put my pistol under my jacket and walked up to the front of
the house, with a guy in our van covering us with an automatic weapon, but
out of sight.  He convinces me I need to put on my armor.  He basically
commandeered my character into putting my armor on.  Now you tell me if this
is conducive to roleplaying, as opposed to suiting up for a hack & slash 
encounter.  Yeah, I was going into a possibly dangerous situation, but Geez,
you can't go everywhere with the Pillsbury Doughboy Defense (tm).  I was
trying not to catch too much attention by walking up a man's house in a
city in full battlearmor and a rifle.

I think the main problem is that Larry's got a playing style more closely
related to hack & slash than he thinks; his concept of roleplaying is to
carefully describe HOW you kill your opponent.  Did he think NO ONE was ever
going to use a computer, drive a vehicle, or work with a robot to complete
a mission?  What was his predetermined plan, that everyone tromp in with
guns blazing on everything that moved or wore armor?  I think not.  Unless
I see a BIG improvement in BattleLords, you can be sure I'm not going to 
sink anymore of my money into a game system designed by a whole team of
bloodthirsty, misguided, deluded hack & slashers.

...Paul