HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: middleto@poincare.ucsd.edu (Tom Middleton ; System Manager)
Newsgroups: rec.nude
Subject: Re: Lawsuits (was Re: Excluding Single Males)
Date: 21 Jan 93 21:42:08 GMT
Organization: Institute for NonLinear Science, UCSD
NNTP-Posting-Host: poincare.ucsd.edu

#>In article <1irkr9INNplt@skeena.ucs.ubc.ca> arnett@unixg.ubc.ca (Bill Arnett) writes:
#>>1) This "discrimination" is probably not illegal.  Spa Lady and Living Well
#>>Lady (health clubs) actively prohibit male members without breaking any laws.

%In article <1993Jan15.014240.22583@phx.mcd.mot.com> sherm@phx.mcd.mot.com (bambi) writes:
%>Prohibiting male members and charging male members a TWO 
%>different things.

In article <1jfnduINN8uj@skeena.ucs.ubc.ca> arnett@unixg.ubc.ca (Bill Arnett) writes:
>Correct.  But "prohibition" (of singles) is the normal practice at
>nudist places that want to keep single men out.  Charging single MEN
>a premium is (IMHO) extremely rare.  (A third method is to charge
>*all* singles a premium, but this is non-sexist.)


Has anyone (ASA, TNS) actually surveyed this issue?  Certainly when you
are talking about clubs in general, including health spas and sports clubs,
I would guess there is a lot of prohibition based on sex.  However, I have
never had a feeling of being discriminated against at the four nudist/naturist
resorts I have been to here in So. Calif.  Two of the clubs have been known
to charge the same price for single men as for a couple or a family and yet
they would give a discount for single women.  (One of the clubs has changed
its policy and now charges the same rate for single men and women.)

I'm not yet convinced that having lower rates to encourage members of a
specific group to join is discrimination.  It does not stop me from joining
and all the same facilities are available.  I suppose if they charged single
men a great deal more than couples/families/single women then it would be
discrimination.

On the other hand, as a business practice I think the idea of lower rates
for single women to encourage them to join is faulty, I don't think it works.
More needs to be done to get them involved and to create an environment
where they will feel comfortable and safe and have a good time.

-- 
===============================================================================
Thomas Earl Middleton				.signature temporarily
middleto@poincare.ucsd.edu			    out of service
===============================================================================
Newsgroups: rec.nude
From: Rob_Prior@mindlink.bc.ca (Rob Prior)
Subject: Re: Nudist TV
Organization: MIND LINK! - British Columbia, Canada
Date: Thu, 21 Jan 1993 23:49:16 GMT

] Roger Ritter writes:
]
] >>So, obviously, we'll use TBN - The Bare Network!
] >Bzzzzt!  Wrong answer; thank you for playing...  :-)  "TBN" is already
] >used by the Trinity Broadcasting Network.
] >Try again...
] OK, so we're left with no other choice - TEN, The Erection Network :-).
] At least it will get lots of viewers!

... And at least it'll always have a good standing in the ratings... :)

Rob

--
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
Rob Prior - President, Still Animation Logo Design, Burnaby, BC, CANADA!!!
email: a634@mindlink.uucp   |
snail: 4874 Greentree Place |     This space intentionally left blank
       Burnaby, BC, V5G 3V5 |
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
Newsgroups: rec.nude
(Smail3.1.28.1 #7) id m0nFBp4-0000ShC; Thu, 21 Jan 93 16: 00 PST
From: rsopicki@pro-amber.cts.com (Randy Sopicki)
Subject: Re: Field trip and rec.nude BOF at Usenix
Organization: ProLine [pro-amber] -- Spring Valley, Ca
Date: Thu, 21 Jan 93 15:57:25 PST

Good question! What is a BOF?
Newsgroups: rec.nude
From: thomasr@cpqhou.se.hou.compaq.com (G. Thomas Rush)
Subject: Re: drug dealers
Organization: Compaq Computer Corp
Date: Wed, 27 Jan 1993 17:26:01 GMT
Followup-To: talk.politics.misc

In article <ARCHER.881.728084822@utkvm1.utk.edu> ARCHER@utkvm1.utk.edu (T. Archer) writes:
>In article <lmb0n7INNnm7@exodus.Eng.Sun.COM> williamt@athena.Eng.Sun.COM (Dances with Drums) writes:
>>In article <19986@mindlink.bc.ca> Rob_Prior@mindlink.bc.ca (Rob Prior) writes:
>>>Anyone who sells drugs is most certainly a lower form of life
>>---
>>	Really?  
>>
>>	I look at drug dealers as freedom fighters.  They are risking
>>their lives and property for allowing people the freedom to *choose*
>>what they want to do with their minds and bodies -- despite government
>>desire to control our bodies and minds.  
>>
>>	Everytime I hear of a drug dealer sent to jail, I feel a sense
>>that someone on the side of freedom has been captured and is now
>>a POW.  The war on drugs is a war on the american people, and those
>>jailed are prisoners of war.
>>
>Oh please.  Drug dealers are in it for the money, not for ideals.  They are 
>no more freedom fighters than slave traders were in the 1700's.  They have 
>the same motive:  profit.  Now, I do not deny the validity of the profit 
>motive, nor the natural right of people to do what they want, so long as 
>they harm no one but themselves.

Remember an event called the Boston Tea Party?  There was a revolution
in this country fought as much for money as for ideals.  I'm glad we
won that one; I hope we win this one, too.

Can you separate the economic issues from the personal freedom issues?
I don't think so.

>As far as I am concerned, if someone wants to turn their brain to tapioca, 
>that's fine with me.  Just don't expect me to pay for rehabilitation, or to 
>feed them when they can no longer take care of themselves.

And I don't.  The revolution's about responsibility as well as freedom
(as you well know).

>I now officially declare this thread beyond the charter of rec.nude, and 
>invite any follow-ups to go to talk.politics.misc.  (I can't, my newreader 
>is differently-abled.)

Done.


thomas rush			compaq computer corporation	
thomasr@cpqhou.compaq.com	their employee, not their opinions.
By my belief that government should be minimized, I swear to oppose
the unrequested intrusion of government into the lives of individuals
From: tmd@austin.lockheed.com (Tom Davis)
Newsgroups: rec.nude
Subject: Re: How to carry your stuff...
Date: 22 Jan 93 18:59:47 GMT
Organization: "Lockheed Austin Division, 6800 Burleson Rd, Austin, TX 78744

In article <...> ARCHER@utkvm1.utk.edu writes:

>It may seem like a foolish question to you, but what do ya'll do with 
>wallets, car keys, smoking paraphanalia, and the like?  No pockets.  

I find it easiest to leave most of the stuff (like wallet, etc.) locked
in the car, and take only the car's door key, on an elastic strap around
my wrist.  You can usually find that sort of thing at the sporting goods
stores, especially now with spring (or at least the spring "fashions")
on the way.

Then, one easily carried bag has towel, sun oil, etc., and room to put
the flip-flops, shorts, and T-shirt I've been wearing, once I get to a
place where I can shuck them all. (Of course, it's nicest to be at a
place where you can shuck your clothes right there at the car, and leave
_them_ in it, too.)

As to smoking paraphanalia, how about the trash can? [Half a :-)]

-- 
   Tom Davis                    Internet address: tmd@austin.lockheed.com
	"Imagine there's no countries; it isn't hard to do;
	 Nothing to kill or die for, and no religion, too."
   [Disclaimer: I speak for nobody but me - and sometimes not even that.]
Newsgroups: rec.nude
From: richg@hatch.socal.com (Rich Greenberg)
Subject: Re: Gun-Control and Nudity
Organization: Hatch Usenet and E-mail.  Playa del Rey, CA
Date: Mon, 25 Jan 1993 04:26:46 GMT

In article <ARCHER.844.727641289@utkvm1.utk.edu> ARCHER@utkvm1.utk.edu (T. Archer) writes:

>It may seem like a foolish question to you, but what do ya'll do with 
>wallets, car keys, smoking paraphanalia, and the like?  No pockets.  

Shoulder bags, fanny packs or a wallet that fits around the wrist
or ankle or fastens to a shoe.
Alternately, if you have a bag with a towel, blanket, food, the clothing
you just took off, etc etc etc, in there.
-- 
Rich Greenberg      Work: rmg50@juts.ccc.amdahl.com   310-417-8999
N6LRT               Play: richg@hatch.socal.com       310-649-0238
What?   Me speak for Amdahl?  Surely you jest....
From: williamt@athena.Eng.Sun.COM (Dances with Drums)
Newsgroups: rec.nude
Subject: Re: drug dealers
Date: 26 Jan 93 18:28:55 GMT
Reply-To: williamt@athena.Eng.sun.com (Dances with Drums)
Organization: Sun Microsystems Inc., Mountain View, CA
NNTP-Posting-Host: athena

In article <19986@mindlink.bc.ca> Rob_Prior@mindlink.bc.ca (Rob Prior) writes:
>Anyone who sells drugs is most certainly a lower form of life
---
	Really?  

	I look at drug dealers as freedom fighters.  They are risking
their lives and property for allowing people the freedom to *choose*
what they want to do with their minds and bodies -- despite government
desire to control our bodies and minds.  

	Everytime I hear of a drug dealer sent to jail, I feel a sense
that someone on the side of freedom has been captured and is now
a POW.  The war on drugs is a war on the american people, and those
jailed are prisoners of war.

-wat-
-- 

:: If pro-choice means choice after conception, does this apply to men too? ::
From: FORTMAPL@udavxb.oca.udayton.edu
Newsgroups: rec.nude
Subject: How to carry your stuff...
Date: 22 Jan 1993 10:35:21 -0600
Organization: UTexas Mail-to-News Gateway
NNTP-Posting-Host: cs.utexas.edu

From: ARCHER@utkvm1.utk.edu (T. Archer)
>Subject: Re: Gun-Control and Nudity
>Lines: 46
>Date: Thu, 21 Jan 1993 18:34:49 GMT
>
>It may seem like a foolish question to you, but what do ya'll do with 
>wallets, car keys, smoking paraphanalia, and the like?  No pockets.  

Depending on where and how long I will be au natural, and since I have 
to eat every four hours, I use a day-pack.  I plan to get the Naturist
Society Fanny Pack for the times that I don't need the day-pack.  I 
also have a thing from TNS that goes around your wrist or ankle (I put 
it around my ankle) that is large enough to hold a key or two and maybe 
a few coins. 

You could use a fanny-pack, a day-pack, a hat/cap with a pouch or pocket 
in it (TNS offers one), the wrist/ankle thingy from TNS, a paper bag, a
plastic bag, a sport/gym/duffel bag, ad nauseum.

*Pooh Bare
--
 -----------------------------------------------------------------------
|  Paul Fortman                     :                                   |
|  fortmapl@dayton.bitnet           :  fortmapl@udavxb.oca.udayton.edu  |
|  an725@cleveland.freenet.edu      :  paul.fortman@bbs.oit.unc.edu     |
 -----------------------------------------------------------------------
|   At tables strewn with artifacts and other data, researchers are     |
|   working to solve puzzles and riddles concerning the strangest and   |
|   most dangerous creature in the solar system.  A specimen of this    |
|   creature is now reading this sentence.                              |
 -----------------------------------------------------------------------
Newsgroups: rec.nude
From: amirza@bronze.ucs.indiana.edu (Anmar Caves)
Subject: Re: Gun-Control and Nudity
Organization: Indiana University
Date: Sun, 24 Jan 1993 16:22:40 GMT

In article <ARCHER.862.727741135@utkvm1.utk.edu> ARCHER@utkvm1.utk.edu (T. Archer) writes:
>
>I think that as naturism (nudism?  natualism?) grows, you will find that 
>this is no longer the case. I am a member of the SCA, a mediaval recreation 
>organization, and I can remeber the time when you could leave sterling 
>silver tankards and the like in the feast hall and they would be there when 
>you returned.  We were an intimate guild of dreamers who would never dream 
>of stealing from the "brethern."  This has changed.  We are big enough to 
>have generated our own set of flatulating buttheads, without need of "
>outsiders."  I fear that you will see the same thing with clothing optional 
>recreation.  Although theft will be more difficult, with fewer places to 
>hide ill-gotten booty.

This is true to a very large extent.  When everybody knows each other,
dishonest people get found out very quickly.

>
>(who are also, quite clearly, not carrying weapons), so we (those of us 
>>who own weapons) leave the weapons home, in the car, or elsewhere where they will be
>>safe.  We do carry wallets, driver's licenses, etc., and that stuff goes in the bag
>>we carry onto the beach, plunk down on one corner of the beach blanket, and carry


Well, I'm a practicing nudist, and I'm usually armed, or have ready
access to arms.  Of course, I don't frequent CO resorts, or public
beaches or the like.  Most of my nudism is done at my property or at
home.  The only public nudism I usually engage in is with groups of
cavers (where nudism runs rampant among otherwise abnormal people)
during the times we're all together and not caving (what a concept!),
such as the hot tub at convention, or any one of thousands of swimming
holes that cavers tend to have an intimate knowledge of.  If I'm out
at my property or at home I don't worry about "what people might
think".  There's usually some type of arm nearby.  In more public
situations I'm a lot more discreet, usually people can't tell.  My
solution in public situations has been to have my weapon with my
stuff, somewhere, and if it's a gun the magazine is removed and stored
seperate.  I know where it all is, but someone looking would have to
take some time to find it, and my stuff never leaves my sight.  I also
carry a lock that has a very loud alarm (homebrew) so if anyone messes
with it I'll know.  There's never been a problem, and to date no one
who doesn't know me has ever found out I'm armed without being told.

-- 
Anmar Mirza   # Chief of Tranquility  #My Opinions! NotIU's!#Purveyor of
EMT-D         # Base, Lawrence Co. IN # Legalize Explosives!#nontraditional
N9ISY (tech)  # Somewhere out on the  # Politicians prefer  #family values
Networks Tech.# Mirza Ranch.C'mon over# unarmed peasants.   #Space For Rent
Newsgroups: rec.nude
From: gp@cunixf.cc.columbia.edu (Gerald Pulver)
Subject: Re: Nudist TV
Bcc: gp
Reply-To: gp@cunixf.cc.columbia.edu (Gerald Pulver)
Organization: Columbia University
Date: Thu, 21 Jan 1993 16:56:43 GMT

In article <1993Jan20.223703.129304@zeus.calpoly.edu> alex@cosmos.acs.calpoly.edu writes:
>David R Zinkin writes
>>In a previous message, ritter@claude.ma30.bull.com (Roger Ritter) says:
>>
>>>So, obviously, we'll use TBN - The Bare Network!
>>
>>Bzzzzt!  Wrong answer; thank you for playing...  :-)  "TBN" is already
>>used by the Trinity Broadcasting Network.
>>
>>Try again...
>>
>
>How 'bout NNN -> Nude'N'Natural Network or N^3 for short.
>
>Alex

Wouldn't that be N^4 ?
			-Gerald
Newsgroups: rec.nude
From: bobdev@hprpcd.rose.hp.com (Bob Devereaux)
Subject: Re: Field trip and rec.nude BOF at Usenix
Date: Thu, 21 Jan 1993 17:00:18 GMT
Organization: Hewlett-Packard
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1.3 PL7]

Richard Ford (rford@pro-harold.cts.com) wrote:
: Tom, Iam interested in the breakfast and probably the BOF.  By the way,
: what is a BOF?

Um, Bill of Friends??
--
Bob Devereaux
bobdev@hprpcd.rose.hp.com
Roseville, CA
(916) 785-5487
Newsgroups: rec.nude
From: tel@cbnews.cb.att.com (thomas.e.lester)
Subject: Re: Nudist TV
Organization: AT&T
Date: Thu, 21 Jan 1993 19:18:02 GMT

In article <ritter.727541964@claude> ritter@claude.ma30.bull.com (Roger Ritter) writes:
>zinkin@acsu.buffalo.edu (David R Zinkin) writes:
>
>>In a previous message, ritter@claude.ma30.bull.com (Roger Ritter) says:
>
>>>So, obviously, we'll use TBN - The Bare Network!
>
>OK, so we're left with no other choice - TEN, The Erection Network :-).
>At least it will get lots of viewers!

	Okay, So a new thread:

	NNN   Nude Naturist Network
	BAN   Bare A$$ Network
	TNA   (if you need to ask never mind.... ;-}
	NTN   Nude Television Network

    Please substitute nude or Naturist as your political preference dictates.

	So, lets hear all those creative acronyms.........

-- 
	-----------------------------------------------------------------
	Tom Lester				att!cblph!tel
	Sonerai IIL (under TEST)		(614) 860-3259
	N4LX 					(614) 927-8106
Newsgroups: rec.nude
From: benjamin@orac.holonet.net (Lawrence A. Benjamin)
Subject: Re: How to carry your stuff...
Organization: HoloNet National Internet Access BBS: 510-704-1058/modem
Date: Thu, 28 Jan 1993 04:59:41 GMT


Like all good nudists I always carry a towel. the towel has pockets sewn
in with velcro to keep it closed.  a woman at my  club (sunsport gardens) 
sells them. there is room for my eye glasses keys and money.

p.s.  anyone going to the tns mid winter gathering at sunsport ??

de larry benjamin (tns,asa, sunsport gardens)
From: middleto@poincare.ucsd.edu (Tom Middleton ; System Manager)
Newsgroups: rec.nude
Subject: Re: Nudist TV call letters
Date: 21 Jan 93 22:12:22 GMT
Organization: Institute for NonLinear Science, UCSD
NNTP-Posting-Host: poincare.ucsd.edu


>>In a previous message, ritter@claude.ma30.bull.com (Roger Ritter) says:
>>>So, obviously, we'll use TBN - The Bare Network!

!zinkin@acsu.buffalo.edu (David R Zinkin) writes:
!>Bzzzzt!  Wrong answer; thank you for playing...  :-)  "TBN" is already
!>used by the Trinity Broadcasting Network.
!>
!>Try again...

:In article <ritter.727541964@claude> ritter@claude.ma30.bull.com (Roger Ritter) writes:
:>OK, so we're left with no other choice - TEN, The Erection Network :-).
:>At least it will get lots of viewers!


Maybe, but won't we have to worry about guys watching for a few seconds
and then falling asleep?

And of course we have to be concerned how long people spend warming up
the TV before they actually turn on the channel. :-)


O.K., so its tacky.
O.K., so it doesn't belong in rec.nude.
I'm sorry.  I promise to avoid following up on this subject.

-- 
===============================================================================
Thomas Earl Middleton				.signature temporarily
middleto@poincare.ucsd.edu			    out of service
===============================================================================
Newsgroups: rec.nude
From: glenm@bnr.ca (Glen Martin)
Subject: Re: How much $$ for Models?
Organization: Bell-Northern Research, Ottawa, Canada
Distribution: na
Date: Wed, 27 Jan 1993 13:25:52 GMT

In article <C1HJsB.EtK@boi.hp.com>, slack@boi.hp.com (David Slack) writes:
|> 
|> 	I been wanting to photograph some nudes in black and white.  I never
|> 	done this before and would like to know how much I should expect to
|> 	pay models.  I am interested in both male and female models.  My 
|> 	thoughts were somewhere around $25-$50 Hr.  The sessions would be only
|> 	for about a hour as it dosen't take long to shoot up film if the shoot
|> 	is well planned in advance, as I hope to be.  A release will be needed
|> 	for possible sell of the photos.  

It depends on the model. If you go to pro agencies, these numbers might
be correct. However, there are usually amateur models to be found, that
will cost perhaps $10-$15 per hour (depending on your currency and
location). If you're just starting out, you may wish to try this route.
Of course, they're harder to find ... try art schools and camera clubs -
they often have lists of willing models. Don't ask for the models' phone
number though - ask them to contact the model and have the model call you.

Good luck.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------
Glen Martin   B4/3fg+k+s+(+)mr   Ottawa, Ontario, Canada     glenm@bnr.ca
"You don't need to be afraid of us, but it just might be your daughter on
our bus." -- 'New Kid on the Block' by BareNaked Ladies
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: williamt@athena.Eng.Sun.COM (Dances with Drums)
Newsgroups: rec.nude
Subject: Re: Lawsuits (was Re: Excluding Single Males)
Date: 21 Jan 1993 17:18:30 GMT
Organization: Sun Microsystems Inc., Mountain View, CA
Reply-To: williamt@athena.Eng.sun.com (Dances with Drums)
NNTP-Posting-Host: athena

In article <jmcging.727556344@digex> jmcging@access.digex.com writes:
>As much as I like good debate, it is wasting my time to continue to argue
>the points that have been challanged and won in Maryland courts.  All I
>can say is that we have been to court, challanged much like you propose,
>and been supported by the court.
>  The proof is in the final product, not the
>theory.  We paid a lot of good money and spent a lot of time on this issue
>in court and I'll stand by my statements that (so far) have been supported
>by the courts.  Within certain limits (race being the most obvious) a
>private club can set membership standards any way they see fit.
----
	You have to realize that at one point in time, the courts supported
slavery.  At one point in time, the courts supported discrimination
by race.  At one point in time tobacco companies were immune from
prosecution.  Time has changed all of these archaic and provincial
attitudes.  

	Just because something has been some particular way in the past or
even been supported by the courts in the past, doesn't mean one shouldn't
persistantly address the problem.  Persistance does pay off -- just
ask the fundamentalists who are pushing to have a theocracy -- they are
making progress in some areas!

	Of course the idea of suing a club again and again may have that
club decide to change it's rule -- or shut down.  If it shuts down, and
there is a demand, then a new club will take its place.  

-wat-
-- 

:: If pro-choice means choice after conception, does this apply to men too? ::
Newsgroups: rec.nude,alt.fan.naked-guy
From: Mark.Cornick@launchpad.unc.edu (Mark Cornick)
Subject: The Naked Guy gets expelled
Organization: University of North Carolina Extended Bulletin Board Service
Date: Wed, 27 Jan 1993 04:24:17 GMT


I have just heard on my local news that Andrew "The Naked Guy" Martinez
has been expelled by UCal-Berkeley. TNG has been suspended twice before,
and apparently the university doesn't appreciate his continued nudity.
Martinez plans an appeal.

--
   The opinions expressed are not necessarily those of the University of
     North Carolina at Chapel Hill, the Campus Office for Information
        Technology, or the Experimental Bulletin Board Service.
           internet:  laUNChpad.unc.edu or 152.2.22.80
From: jp@moscom.com (Jim Palmeri)
Newsgroups: rec.nude
Subject: Re: Wreck Beach
Date: 21 Jan 93 23:54:41 GMT
Organization: Moscom Corporation, Pittsford NY

>I hardly think it is appropriate to call drug sellers "lower forms of life."
>They are simply people who are business men on a black market.
>The correlation with violence is largely false, and partly what is to be 
>expected of a black market. They cannot pay taxes, and they certainly do not
>get police protection for their business transactions as other business
>people do.
> I understand the fear, I understand the reasons, but lets not believe to
>much of the propoganda ok?  They are no more lower forms of life than 
>alchohol drinkers, who use a drug that once was illegal and caused a violent
>black market.

Some drug dealers are business men on a black market.  They may have
a sense of propriety and ethics.

Some drug dealers will suspend all ethics as they get young school
children started on hard drugs so as to broaden their marketing base.
Never mind the health and well being of these children.  It may be
fair to say that these type of people are low life.

Just what proportion of all drug dealers are in each of the above
categories, I don't know.  It goes to show you that generalizations
never really work well.  But the fact is, some drug dealers are
indeed low life.  Perhaps many of them.

-- 
Jim P.   (jp@moscom.com)