HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: cjkuo@locus.com (Chengi Jimmy Kuo)
Subject: Re: more options question (Summary)
Organization: Locus Computing Corporation, Los Angeles, California
Distribution: usa
Date: Fri, 17 Apr 1992 06:58:42 GMT

ask@cbnews.cb.att.com (Arthur S. Kamlet) writes:

>In article <1992Apr16.170506.2115@oakhill.sps.mot.com> quangl@tabasco.UUCP (Quang Le) writes:
>>First, I would like to thank all who replied to my question
>>about stock option. I tried to summarize to the following
>>points for Holders of stock options (not Writers)
>>
>>* Stock option expires on the third Friday of the month, not
>>the last day of the month.

>Mea culpa!  I'm one of the people who said this.  I should have
>added:  Except when the 3rd Friday is a holiday and markets are
>closed, like they are this Friday!  In that case, it is the Thursday
>before the 3rd Friday.

I believe the official rule is, expiration: Saturday following the
third Friday of the month.

Jimmy Kuo
-- 
cjkuo@locus.com
"The correct answer to an either/or question is both!"
Newsgroups: misc.invest
From: ask@cbnews.cb.att.com (Arthur S. Kamlet)
Subject: Re: more options question
Organization: AT&T Bell Laboratories,  Columbus, Ohio
Distribution: usa
Date: Tue, 14 Apr 1992 18:44:26 GMT

In article <1992Apr14.045448.128406@locus.com> cjkuo@locus.com (Chengi Jimmy Kuo) writes:
>john.ogilvie@canrem.com (john ogilvie) writes:
>>> Assume that I buy  a call of MSFT April 130 and keep it until April 30, 1992
>>> MSFT is only 120 and there is no market to sell my option even
>>> with 1 bilionth of a dollar. Do I have an obligation to buy 100
>>> shares of MSFT at 130?

Minor point:  options expire the third Friday of the month.

>>DK>No.  Options give you the right BUT not the obligation to purchase the
>>DK>underlying security
>>     If you let an option expire that is more than $1 in the money, you WILL
>>     get exercised.  It HAPPENED TO ME!
>
>I don't know if you're confused or you're trying to confuse us.  The question
>concerns BUYING the option.  You can only be exercised if you were the seller
>of the option.  If you are the buyer of an option, *you* get to exercise.
>The option is yours as to whether you choose to exercise.  You are BUYING
>the OPTION.  In this case, the English words actually mean the same thing!

Most brokers will automatically have you exercise any option you
hold long on the last day, if above some price, $1 is reasonable,
unless you specifically ask for another action, such as selling
back the option itself.

If you are buying options, you really shouldn't get down to the wire
like that without having given specific instructions, anyway.
I will make an assumption that no one in this newsgroup is a
professional arbitrageur, which means you can almost always make out
better in the short run by selling back the option than exercising
it and then dumping the stock.  The commissions will hurt you, but
help the friendly broker who will, in fact, exercise for you if left
to their own choice.

There's sense to this.  Let's say the option is $15 in the money;
surely you would not want the option to expire worthless!!
In fact, I wouldn't be surprised if the broker doesn't have a
fiduciary duty to exercise rather than letting it expire worthless!
-- 
Art Kamlet  a_s_kamlet@att.com  AT&T Bell Laboratories, Columbus
From: root@sickbay.austin.ibm.com
Newsgroups: misc.invest
Subject: Q: Chicago, Minn/St.Paul, Deluth:  Economy/Real Estate Mkts?
Date: 9 Apr 92 18:54:04 GMT
Organization: IBM, Austin

Organization: Teknekron Software Systems, Inc.
I'm particularly interested in the real estate market, but since
the world is just one large market system, any information would be
greatly appreciated.
     It's better than the coasts !
     Further, if you have a lot of money there are bargains to be found.
     The Chicago economy is poor but real estate is ok. Why ??
     There is a lot of money and being a pseudo blue collar town some
     areas never felt the blow.
     Unemployment at the last time I checked was 9.3 (a few months back)
     A good business town, bad software place(UNIX). Programmers dont make squat
     and must have connections, i.e Irish etc. I got one contract in 14 
     months. By the way don't even think of contracting there full time,
     they want to full time work and discard when finished. Rates suck too !!

     Good luck
                 Andras
From: McAldon International Inc. <mcaldon@igc.org>
Newsgroups: misc.invest
Date: 08 Apr 92 23:41 PDT
Subject: Re: Perot on the federal debt
Nf-ID: #R:rufus.uucp:1615:cdp:1426500155:000:576
Nf-From: cdp.UUCP!mcaldon    Apr  8 23:41:00 1992


Just think, Perot could dedicate, as a true patriot, one billion of his
reputed four billion dollars and buy Congress by paying each of them
$100,000 per month, a lot more than they're getting from the lobbies.
[They could pass a law making it legal]  In one year, Perot could get
everything humming!

Just kidding, of course, but why not?:-)

                         |        Vote for the environment          |
|    mcaldon@igc.org     |       And Jerry Brown's flat tax         |
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
From: barmar@think.com (Barry Margolin)
Newsgroups: misc.invest
Subject: Re: 401K Vesting Question
Date: 16 Apr 1992 18:40:52 GMT
Organization: Thinking Machines Corporation, Cambridge MA, USA
Distribution: usa
NNTP-Posting-Host: telecaster.think.com

In article <1992Apr16.124739.19134@mr.med.ge.com> larry@ducktales.med.ge.com (Larry Landwehr) writes:
>In article <1992Apr15.221411.4191@linus.mitre.org>, jp@faron.mitre.org (Jeffrey Picciotto) writes:
>> > It's my understanding that to gain one year of vesting in a 401K there is a
>> > *federal law* that says that you have to be working for your employer on
>> > December 31st and have worked for at least 2000 hours for that employer
>> > during that year in order to be vested for that year.
>> This is false.  The Feds impose no such restriction.
>> Companies, I suspect, can impose just about any limitations they want.
>My employer does require this. My account manager told me it was
>because of federal law.

It may not be completely incorrect.  There are some laws on 401(k) plans
that *indirectly* result in companies adopting certain policies and
restrictions.  The laws are generally designed to prevent a small faction
of high-paid employees from contributing too much of the funds in the plan.
The most common restrictions that result are the limits on the percentage
of your salary that you may contribute to the plan (if the limit were
higher, low-wage employees probably couldn't afford to contribute the limit
but highly paid executives could).  It's possible that they're using this
vesting rule to prevent other misuses of the plan; for instance, if your
plan allows people to stay in the plan after their employment is
terminated, someone might be hired for one week at some exhorbitant salary,
contribute a huge amount to the plan, and then be terminated.
-- 
Barry Margolin
System Manager, Thinking Machines Corp.

barmar@think.com          {uunet,harvard}!think!barmar
From: jprice@eecs.cs.pdx.edu (James Price)
Newsgroups: misc.invest
Subject: Re: Fin Hlth Sci, 20th Cent Ultra plummet
Date: 7 Apr 92 18:18:17 GMT
Organization: Portland State University, Portland, OR

In article <1992Apr7.000213.23579@ux1.cso.uiuc.edu> g-martin1@uiuc.edu (Gregory A. Martin) writes:
>Recently I have noticed that Financial Strategic Health Sciences and
>20th Century Ultra have been getting hammered while the Dow is keeping
>fairly constant. Anyone have explanations for the 15% drops since
>January?   ---- Greg Martin, g-martin1@uiuc.edu

  Both are aggressive growth funds that hold volatile sector securites...
 Ultra had a high of about $17.80 or so a few months back and is now down
to $16.04, tho it was down to $15.79 last week. This is about a 10% drop.
I havent kept close tabs on Health Sciences but apparently it is being
hit hard too. Essentially, aggressive growth stock funds shine in good
markets and die in bad ones....the longterm investor utilizing dollar
cost averaging evens out the short term rises and falls...

James
Net: jprice@jove.cs.pdx.edu       "Justice is incidental to law and order."
Globe: 45 31 25 N 122 40 30 W                          - J. Edgar Hoover
Unity not uniformity | NBC = GE   "Reading musses up my mind." - Henry Ford
Newsgroups: misc.invest
From: mchale@nm1w.zk3.dec.com (Jim McHale - NM1W)
Subject: Vicor(nasdaq) - anyone know whats going on?
Reply-To: mchale@decvax.dec.com
Organization: First Strike Software
Date: Mon, 6 Apr 1992 16:50:17 GMT


The stock seemed to be skyrocketing til recently; Now its lost almost half
its value but the company still seems solid....
--
=======================================================================
Jim McHale - NM1W - mchale@decvax.dec.com   | First Strike Software Inc
     Unix/Macintosh/VMS/pc                  |            (603) 673-6566
=======================================================================
From: lib@cbnews.cb.att.com (Lib)
Newsgroups: misc.invest
Subject: Re: Zweig indicators/historical
Date: 9 Apr 92 12:24:54 GMT
Organization: AT&T

In article <1992Apr9.022549.1681@elroy.jpl.nasa.gov> fod@elroy.jpl.nasa.gov (Frank O'Donnell) writes:
>Recently I've been reading Martin Zweig's "Winning on Wall
>Street," which details a variety of indicators he uses to try to
>anticipate what the market is doing.  In particular the chief
>ones he suggests using are based on watching the prime rate, the
>Fed's discount rate and reserve requirements, monthly reports of
>consumer installment debt and the weekly close of the Value Line
>Composite Index.
   
I don't have a real"history" but I can tell you this much.
    
  
The prime rate indicator is "on" of course and will stay on till
the prime goes up.
    
The discount indicator has had a variety of plus signals. The most
recent of course with the 1 point cut in December and many more earlier
in 1991.
       
The reserve requirements indicator had a plus signal in February. The
last previous one was in December of 1990 (90 not 91). Call the  Fed
if you want info on this. Just tell the operator what kind of info you
want and they will put you in touch with an analyst who will talk
endlessly to you about reserve requirements.
    
The Value Line indicator is now negative having fallen the required 4%
from the high and is at a low for this cycle as we speak so you can
track from there.
   
The consumer installment debt indicator is "on" and has been for some
time. Look for this on the very last few pages of Barron's each
week in a table in the upper right hand corner of the page.
   
Newsgroups: misc.invest
From: dlw@odi.com (Dan Weinreb)
Subject: Re: Rudman on the federal debt
Reply-To: dlw@odi.com
Organization: Object Design, Inc.
Distribution: usa
Date: Tue, 7 Apr 92 17:28:38 GMT

In article <14826@optima.cs.arizona.edu> bakken@cs.arizona.edu (Dave Bakken) writes:

   Is Common Cause affiliated with Ralph Nader?  

No, it isn't.

Their main big name is Archibald Cox, but I don't think he's actually
in charge of all of it.  Common Cause is particularly big on campaign
finance reform.  They put out a monthly newsletter detailing excess
spending, conflicts of interest, etc.
From: klug@Software.Mitel.COM (Peter Klug)
Newsgroups: misc.invest
Subject: Re: more options question
Date: 14 Apr 92 18:48:33 GMT
Distribution: misc
Organization: Mitel Corporation; Kanata, Ontario, Canada
In-reply-to: cjkuo@locus.com's message of 14 Apr 92 04:54:48 GMT


In article <1992Apr14.045448.128406@locus.com> cjkuo@locus.com (Chengi Jimmy Kuo) writes:

... previous stuff omitted

   >     If you let an option expire that is more than $1 in the money, you WILL
   >     get exercised.  It HAPPENED TO ME!

   I don't know if you're confused or you're trying to confuse us.  The question
   concerns BUYING the option.  You can only be exercised if you were the seller
   of the option.  If you are the buyer of an option, *you* get to exercise.
   The option is yours as to whether you choose to exercise.  You are BUYING
   the OPTION.  In this case, the English words actually mean the same thing!

   Jimmy Kuo


It used to be my impression from the books I had read that, having
purchased an option, the owner had the "right" but not the
"obligation" of exercising it before expiry.

I recently had occasion to discuss this topic with the section
supervisor at Toronto Dominion Green Line because I was in the
position of wanting to exercise an index option and not being familiar
with the procedure.  During our discussion I expanded the scope and
found out that the onus was on the client to instruct that an option
be exercised (that covers their asses) but that they would
automatically exercise ALL expiring, in-the-money options.  The theory
being of course, that if it was worth something you would want to
capture that gain.

He applied this to both index options and equity options which were
in-the-money by a certain amount (it seems to me it was in the area of
$1.00 and it was a different amount for the two types of options).  I
was quite certain not to misunderstand him because of implications.
With index options it's alright because you're talking about a cash
settlement (if it's in-the-money, you're being paid the cash anyway).

However, if you're talking about equity options, all of a sudden you
have to come up with enough cash to buy all of the shares underlying
the call options you've purchased.  Could be quite a shock for those
who buy options as a speculative vehicle, never expecting to buy the
shares themselves.  I outlined this scenario to him and was quite
surprised to find that he concurred but that "that's just the way it
is".  I think he said that that was how it was done in Chicago and in
Toronto they've adopted the same procedures.

So, that's my current understanding of options and expiry.  Can anyone
elaborate or clarify this some more?


--
*        Peter Klug         *  Peter_Klug@Mitel.COM
*     Mitel Corporation     *  
*  Kanata, Ontario, Canada  *  Nostalgia ain't what it used to be.
From: barmar@think.com (Barry Margolin)
Newsgroups: misc.invest
Subject: Re: DJIA and stock splits
Date: 10 Apr 1992 07:00:52 GMT
Organization: Thinking Machines Corporation, Cambridge MA, USA
Distribution: usa
NNTP-Posting-Host: gandalf.think.com
Keywords: DJIA

In article <1992Apr8.221146.18483@eos.arc.nasa.gov> brody@eos.arc.nasa.gov (Adam R. Brody ) writes:
>How does the Dow take in to account stock splits.

The DJIA is computed by adding the prices of all the component stocks and
then multiplying by a coefficient.  The purpose of this coefficient is to
account for stock splits and changes in the list of stocks that make up the
average.

When one of these factors change, they simply change the coefficient so
that the average using the new stock price will be the same as the average
using the old price and coefficient.
-- 
Barry Margolin
System Manager, Thinking Machines Corp.

barmar@think.com          {uunet,harvard}!think!barmar
Newsgroups: misc.invest
From: lor@cbnewsk.cb.att.com (edward.lor)
Subject: Re: more options question (Summary)
Organization: AT&T
Distribution: usa
Date: Thu, 16 Apr 1992 21:14:43 GMT

In article <1992Apr16.200643.7623@cbnews.cb.att.com> ask@cbnews.cb.att.com (Arthur S. Kamlet) writes:
>>* If you tried to close your option far ahead of the expired day you 
>>may lose some chance in making money. I thought that a lot of MSFT
>>buy April 120,125 holders, who already closed their positions, lost
>>their temper when MSFT climbed 12 pts when just three days are left.:-)
>
>Well, the first rule of investing is: buy low, sell high.  Those who
>sold low violated this rule :^)
Well, Art, the next time you know MSFT is going to jump 12 points, please
tell us. We will mortgage our houses on it, and we will even give you a 
fat commission!!!!

I sold my MSQDC last week when it was $7 (stock price $122). I 
thought I got it lucky because $122+change was the high last week, and it
stayed at that price for less than an hour.  Then it slumped back to
the 110s.

Yep, I am still kicking myself.

-- 
                                          Edward Lor
                                          lor@cbnewsk.att.com
From: prabhak@cs.umn.edu (Satya Prabhakar)
Newsgroups: misc.invest
Subject: Re: So-called Experts and Timing ( Re: Time to invest in Japan Fund??)
Date: 13 Apr 92 20:14:23 GMT
Article-I.D.: cs.1992Apr13.201423.10641
Distribution: na
Organization: University of Minnesota, Minneapolis, CSci dept.

In article <34219@unix.SRI.COM> Ari_Kornfeld@QM.SRI.COM (Ari Kornfeld) writes:
>
>Satya:
>
>  You are a big fan of cost averaging (i've noticed it in every post of
>your i've read).  And you are right that the best strategy is buy low
>sell high.  However that strategy contains a big assumption:  that you
>will reach a high (in reasonable time).
>
>  If you invested in a single stock that eventually went bankrupt using you
>methods you would have invested quite a bit of money and lost it all.  Now
>I doubt that every component of the nikkei (250?) will go bankrupt, or
>even if one will die but it is quite likely that the market will not reach
>its old high for several years to come.  Meanwhile you have essentially given
>these companies a free loan.  While that's very charitable I don't think
>that's your goal.

I agree with you completely. Investing in a little-known stock using
dollar-cost-averaging may lead to a total loss if the company folds.
I do not believe in investing in single stocks.

But Japan is another story. I believe in Japan's ability to get up
dust off the muck and start running again. They have demonstrated this once
and I am sure they will do so again. It may not be one Hail Mary and a 
touchdown, but it wont be a tortuous 3 yards-at-a-time-and-lots-of-dust
to the goal line either.

But then no one knows how long it will take the Nikkei to start
going back up again. I just feel that I can make a handsome profit within the
next 4-6 years. I am in no hurry at all! Oh, BTW, I feel the same about
France also. I suggested this in the past, but their closed-endFrance Growth
Fund looks enticing.


Satya Prabhakar
From: bkottmann@falcon.aamrl.wpafb.af.mil (Brett Kottmann)
Newsgroups: misc.invest
Subject: Re: So-called Experts and Timing ( Re: Time to in
Date: 14 Apr 92 10:42:22 EST
Distribution: na
Organization: Logicon Technical Services, Inc.

In article <34219@unix.SRI.COM>, Ari_Kornfeld@QM.SRI.COM (Ari Kornfeld) writes:
> 
> Satya:
> 
>   You are a big fan of cost averaging (i've noticed it in every post of
> your i've read).  And you are right that the best strategy is buy low
> sell high.  However that strategy contains a big assumption:  that you
> will reach a high (in reasonable time).
> 
>   If you invested in a single stock that eventually went bankrupt using you
> methods you would have invested quite a bit of money and lost it all.  Now
> I doubt that every component of the nikkei (250?) will go bankrupt, or
> even if one will die but it is quite likely that the market will not reach
> its old high for several years to come.  Meanwhile you have essentially given
> these companies a free loan.  While that's very charitable I don't think
> that's your goal.
> 
>   As you point out, only hindsight will justify *any* investment strategy
> including cost averaging.

	Well...no strategy is perfect, you if you are averaging, you have to
pick a stock that works for averaging:  cylicals/market companies.  If the
stock doesn't fluctuate, you either get a constantly decreasing stock or
constantly increasing stock, or one that doesn't fluctuate enough to allow you
to aquire a meaningful amount of stock.
	Exchange companies (companies that deal in securities) are a good
window on the market, and are thus naturally cyclical.  They are tied to the
market, however, and if you get a large bull run you will not be able to
increase your position.  Other cyclicals (auto firms, etc.) can be good
cyclicals also.  Dollar cost averaging requires research, like any other
strategy.  Simply plunking down money on "a stock" and averaging it over a few
years is simply dart board investing.
	That's why averaging is for the long term.  You probably won't make
a lot of money for a couple of years.  It can pay off if you are willing to
stick with it.

Brett---------------------------------------------------------------------------
____________The best thing about morning________________________________________
__________________________________is that it's over by noon.____________________
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Newsgroups: misc.invest
From: rjc@cbnewsf.cb.att.com (robert.cook)
Subject: Yeeee Hiiiiiiiii
Organization: AT&T
Distribution: usa
Date: Wed, 8 Apr 1992 23:04:02 GMT

This market kind of reminds me of a movie (WWII) where they're dropping "THE
BOMB" and the boomer won't be able to clear the area.  So Slim Pickens, I
believe, rides the baby down. 

Kind of like pealing off a rock at 900 ft.  Might as well look good on the way
down.  Guess everyone had covered with puts.  RIGHT? :-)


By the way,  If one had put options on the index, what would the return be, say
on a 100 pt. drop?

Robert
Newsgroups: misc.invest
From: uhumptl@meaddata.com (Tim Humphrey)
Subject: VantagePoint
Organization: Mead Data Central, Dayton OH
Date: Mon, 6 Apr 1992 15:15:28 GMT

If you own VantagePoint, please contact me. I'm interested in
knowing what you think of the product.	

Tim Humphrey
uhumptl@meaddata.com
From: judy@evolving.com (Judy Bettinger)
Newsgroups: misc.invest
Subject: Ross Perot
Date: 8 Apr 92 19:50:20 GMT
Organization: Evolving Systems, Inc.

Does anyone know what the 800-number is for the Perot campaign?  
If nothing else, I'd like to see another choice on the ballot in November.  
(Please post, as I suspect others might also be interested.)

-- 
Judith C.  Bettinger                    Phone: 303-969-3328
Evolving Systems, Inc.                  Email: judy@evolving.com
200 Union Blvd. Suite 500               FAX: 303-969-3399
Denver, Colorado   80228                #include <std_disclaimer.h>
Newsgroups: misc.invest
Subject: Stock Warrants
From: haneypj@ucunix.san.uc.edu (Philip J. Haney)
Date: Fri, 17 Apr 92 13:44:30 GMT
Organization: University of Cincinnati

I was wondering if anyone could tell me where I could find
stock warrant information on various companies (i.e., the
expire data and exercise price)?  Any comments would be
greatly appreciated.

=============================================================================
| Philip J. Haney (haneypj@ucunix.san.uc.edu)    "It doesn't matter whether |
| University of Cincinnati                        you win or lose, just so  |
| Dept. of Elect. & Comp. Eng.                    long as you look good."   |
| Cincinnati, Ohio 45221-0030                                       D.L.R.  |
=============================================================================
Newsgroups: misc.invest
From: lib@cbnews.cb.att.com (Lib)
Subject: Re: AMD
Organization: AT&T
Date: Thu, 9 Apr 1992 12:13:04 GMT

In article <1992Apr8.213359.2340@walter.bellcore.com> jchen@ctt.bellcore.com writes:
>I heard over WCBS that a brokerage firm just upped AMD's earning 
>estimate from $2.xx to $3.yy. A P/E of 5? Nah, that is too good to be true.

Well maybe not. This morning's Journal shows a P/E of 7. My confusion
is why AMD didn't do better yesterday after the earnings report.
There was a lot of volume (2.4 million) but the price was
unchanged. That means that the earnings and P/E notwitthstanding
enough people to amount to 2.4 million shares decided it was time
to sell. How come? 

Newsgroups: misc.invest