HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: clements@bow.Princeton.EDU (John B. Clements)
Subject: Re: Anasthetics and piercing
Keywords: AUA
Organization: Princeton University
Date: Wed, 8 Apr 1992 20:37:23 GMT

In article <1992Apr7.162144.22550@muddcs.claremont.edu> bgribble@jarthur.claremont.edu (Bill Gribble) writes:
>In article <1992Apr7.105331.29967@olymp.informatik.uni-bonn.de> PATZNER@rhea.cs.bonn.edu writes:
>>(I just CAN'T be the only non-masochist liking piercings...)
>
>I don't think it's a question of masochism.  I definitely don't want to get
>into "my reason for getting perforated is better than yours," but for some 
>people (myself included) the pain is an integral part of the piercing.  
>There's a challenge in KNOWING that you're going to feel the pain, facing 
>your fear, and asserting your will to do the thing.  It doesn't feel any
>better to me than it would to anyone else -- it's just how you look at it.
>
>The act of being pierced with anesthesia seems to me somehow empty, like 
>artificial insemination instead of fucking.  But hey, whatever floats 
>your boat.  I guess there are just some people for whom the experience of 
>being pierced is more important than having the ring and some for whom the 
>experience is an inconvenience.  Personally, I feel sorry for the latter 
>group -- they're missing out.
>

  I'm sorry I don't have something more thoughtful to add, but I'd just
like to echo these sentiments--perhaps I'm just being an arrogant sod,
but I really feel that the pain is part of the piercing.  I see
anaesthesia as taking us further down the road towards a bloodless,
sterile environment that separates body and mind, that makes everything
and everyone clean and isolated.  Go ahead!  Ram a steel spike through
your private parts.  In fact, to some degree I feel as though I really
should have done my piercings myself.  

john clements
20, smelly, cruddy, and happy
Newsgroups: rec.arts.bodyart
Subject: RE: TATS AND CHLORINE
From: ben.sansing@chaos.lrk.ar.us (Ben Sansing) 
Date: 10 Apr 92 09:34:00 GMT
Reply-To: ben.sansing@chaos.lrk.ar.us (Ben Sansing) 
Distribution: world
Organization: The Courts of Chaos * Jacksonville AR USA * 501-985-0059

bpb9204@tamsun.tamu.edu (Brent) writes...
>Ditto.  As for my friend, he says he has never been a big drinker
>so this doesn't support any of Ben's claims either.

I apologize for ever having responded to the person who asked the
question about tattoo care. I apologize for ever believing the tattoo
artists and medical people who said that alcohol would reverse
osmolarity in the skin and cause a tattoo to blur over the course of
time. I apologize for everything, folks. I had no idea that I would be
BLASTED and told I was "full of shit" and to "fuck off" simply for
making this statement. I did not realize that people here would so
drastically overreact and, instead of simply saying something like
"Well, in my expoerience that is not true..." but instead seizing on the
"alcohol causes blurring" thing as BEN'S CLAIM and continuing to toss it
around, using it as an excuse to call me a "liar", an "asshole", and
many other things.

Okay, I'm beginning to learn how things are done on Usenet. Please allow
me to attempt to communicate in the way you folks understand...

Ahem...

FUCK YOU AND EVERYBODY WHO LOOKS LIKE YOU.
YOU EAT SHIT.
FUCK YOU AND THE HORSE YOU RODE IN ON.
GO FUCK A SKUNK.
YOU ARE FULL OF SHIT.
YOU FUCK SHIT.
FUCK YOUR SHIT, ASSHOLE.

Am I learning the "Usenet Way of Debate" or what?
From: harryu@tfs.com (Harry Ugol)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.bodyart
Subject: chaos.lrk.ar.us (was: Re: TATS AND CHLORINE)
Date: 14 Apr 92 00:34:27 GMT
Article-I.D.: tfs.1992Apr14.003427.25046
Organization: Black Leather Wings

In article <604.86.uupcb@chaos.lrk.ar.us> buck.nekkid@chaos.lrk.ar.us (Buck Nekkid) writes:
[...]
>                   

I forget - did anyone ever bother asking Mr. Sansing just how old he
is?  What about postmaster@chaos.lrk.ar.us?


Harry Ugol
harryu@tfs.com

"Briarpatch household rule #8:  *Lots* of lube."
From: batman@batcave.Sun.COM (Karl MacRae - Burnin' with Optimism's Flames)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.bodyart
Subject: Maori, Inuit tattooing (Was Re: Home tattoo? Scarification?)
Keywords: n
Date: 11 Apr 92 16:43:34 GMT
Organization: Tattooed Love Boys
NNTP-Posting-Host: batcave.ebay.sun.com

In article <1992Apr11.134908.19892@julian.uwo.ca> lrb@alex.ctrg.rri.uwo.ca (Lance R. Bailey) writes:
>
>could i/we have a pointer to tattooing by the eskimos [inuit,first persons]
>i really enjoyed my recent readings on moari tattooing.

	Oooh, cool, where did you find info on Maori tattooing?

	The Maoris did some of THE coolest of all the primitive 
	tattoo cultures, and I've read less about it than about,
	say, Samoan and Borneo cultures. Can you point me to some
	source for info on it?


			Thanks-


	-Karl


  -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
    Karl Elvis MacRae batman@batcave.Ebay.sun.com (408)922-4960 M/S MIL21-39
        Sun Microsystems, Milpitas, CA (The armpit of Silicon Valley)
               Steed: VT1100C    Cage: Who Cares?    DoD#1999
            -I don't speak for Sun, and they don't speak for Me-
  +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+
	Says Red Molly - To James; "That's a fine motorbike; a girl could
	feel special on any suchlike"
	Says James, to Red Molly; "My hat's off to you; it's a Vincent
	Black Lightning 1952...."
			-Richard Thompson, '1952 Vincent Black Lightning'
  -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
Newsgroups: rec.arts.bodyart
Subject: RE: ANASTHETICS AND PIERC
From: dave.williams@chaos.lrk.ar.us (Dave Williams) 
Date: 12 Apr 92 13:32:00 GMT
Reply-To: dave.williams@chaos.lrk.ar.us (Dave Williams) 
Distribution: world
Organization: The Courts of Chaos * Jacksonville AR USA * 501-985-0059

-> of course a year ago i told my parents that if i ever pierced my
-> tongue that they should send me to a drug rehab clinic... :)

 Oh, sure.  THAT makes perfect sense.

 "Don't worry, Mr. (Ms?) Watanabe, we're here to help you break your
  chemical dependencies."

 "B-b-but... I don't HAVE any chemical dependencies."

 <conference>  "By the time we're finished with you, you will."
                                                                                                                             
Newsgroups: rec.arts.bodyart
From: tjreynol@zephyr.cair.du.edu (The Jumpin Dude)
Subject: Re: Anasthetics and piercing
Organization: University of Denver
Date: Fri, 10 Apr 92 22:37:42 GMT

In article <29E5FA74.3440@noiro.acs.uci.edu> dwatanab@mothra.nts.uci.edu (Dana Watanabe) writes:
>In article <1992Apr8.203723.10294@Princeton.EDU> clements@bow.Princeton.EDU (John B. Clements) writes:
>
>>  [lots o' stuff deleted]
>>... In fact, to some degree I feel as though I really
>>should have done my piercings myself.  
>>
>>john clements
>>20, smelly, cruddy, and happy
>>
>
>after reading this newsgroup and after getting my first pierce
>i have decided that any pierce i get after this has to be done by 
>me.. i thought a friend of mine was crazy when he got equipment to 
>do it himself, but now i wouldnt want anyone else to do it

:-) :-)

>of course a year ago i told my parents that if i ever pierced my
>tongue that they should send me to a drug rehab clinic... :)

if i even mentioned piercing my tongue to mom she would faint
and probably think i was a gay satanist biker on lsd (4 mega wrongs)

>although i have to admit that i dont know how i could have pierced
>my tongue myself, so im glad i got that done professionally

i toyed with the idea last night, poked at it a bit, looked at the 
glands on the underside and i would definitely have it done professionally
if i were to do it.

studying my tongue last night - it never seemed signifigant that i can 
make my tongue very thin or really fat - do you size the barbell for the 
fattest that you can make your tongue, and have lots of steel poking
around in your mouth lots of the time? or what; i've got to see a tongue
pierce...
>--
>"The future is not what it used to be." - Nick Philips
> ,
>dana watanabe 		email to: DWATANAB@UCI.EDU

tim
From: jaywb@juliet.caltech.edu (Bromley, Jay W.)
Subject: Re:    Anasthetics and piercing
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.40    
Organization: California Institute of Technology
Date: Mon, 6 Apr 1992 22:48:00 GMT

In article <92097.163047JRUNNE@auvm.american.edu>, <JRUNNE@auvm.american.edu> writes...
>Hey...I just got done discussing piercings with someone, and they informed
>me that in Germany, where they got theirs, piercers have no problem with
>using local anasthetics.  When I got my QC, it HURT LIKE TOTAL FUCK.  I had
>discussed anasthetics with my piercer, who insisted that using them was
>dangerous, especially for genital piercings, and may result in nerve damage,
>etc.  Well, the guy I spoke to had a PA and lots more, had used anasthetic
>every time, and had no problems.  Does Gauntlet offer topical painkillers
>of any sort?  Do any of the "big" shops in CA or NY?  What is the exact
>medical poop on anasthetics anyway?  I must have more info on this before
>I let someone put a 14-gauge needle through my genitals again (I was
>told I have room for another QC over my existing one, and I really like
>the idea of the way it will look and feel--AFTER it's pierced!!)
> 
Not having any genital piercings (yet) I can't say anything from personal
experience, but I picked up this little pamphlet of piercing questions from
the Gauntlet here in L.A. which addresses this question, so here it is:

Q: Can you numb the area to be pierced?
A: There are two main reasons Gauntlet piercers don't use injectable
anesthetic.  1. Only medical professionals with appropriate licenses 
can legally give you an injection of Novocaine.  2. A properly done
pericing hurts _less_ than such an injection.  When a piercing is 
clamped with forceps, circulation is reduced and often this has a numbing
effect.  Also, anesthetic salves are effective only on the surface of
the skin.

So there's what Gauntlet has to say about it, hope it helps.
Regards.

########################## You can't get a suntan on the moon, but I 
jay bromley, space cadet | wouldn't mind a vacation there, all expenses
jaywb@juliet.caltech.edu | paid, courtesy of NASA
Newsgroups: rec.arts.bodyart
Subject: AFTERCARE
From: ben.sansing@chaos.lrk.ar.us (Ben Sansing) 
Date: 16 Apr 92 09:18:00 GMT
Reply-To: ben.sansing@chaos.lrk.ar.us (Ben Sansing) 
Distribution: world
Organization: The Courts of Chaos * Jacksonville AR USA * 501-985-0059

Dave Williams writes...
DW> My wife and I went to three local shops (the others being more
DW>than 100 miles away) and looked at the photos on the walls.
DW>One guy had maybe 500 photos of his work, every single one of
DW>them welted.  The tattooist we finally went to (Gregg) said that
DW>some people just welt, others don't, but someone who had customers
DW>who all welted was probably a bit clumsy with the tattoo machine.

Sounds like a well-known "artist" in SWLR, right?
From: af1x+@andrew.cmu.edu (Alan S. Ferrency)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.bodyart
Subject: navel pierce
Date: 9 Apr 92 17:10:25 GMT
Organization: Sophomore, Math/Computer Science, Carnegie Mellon, Pittsburgh, PA

Waaaah!  My belly button fell off!  Actually, just the ring I put in it did.
I did the pierce a few weeks ago, and it looked fine for a long time,
but then in the last couple of days, the hole just started wandering,
and last night the ring fell off in the shower (with a little help, I
admit...)  Luckily it didn't go down the drain...

I had heard that holes sometimes wandered and fell off, but I guess I
didn't really believe it very much, and I certainly didn't think it
happened so quickly.  Isn't the human body amazing?

Is a navel pierce more likely to be accepted if it's further in, or does
that just mean it'll take longer to wander off?

Well, I wanted to do my navel before I did a PA.  Now I can't decide if
I just want to go and do the PA, or do a nipple first.  I'll do both
eventually, I just don't know which one is first...


-me
From: bpwing@phoenix.princeton.edu (Ben Wing)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.bodyart
Date: 10 Apr 92 23:08:03 GMT
Subject: Re: Anasthetics and piercing
Organization: Princeton University
X-Subliminal-Message: You can quit reading news anytime you want.

In article <1992Apr10.223742.25956@mercury.cair.du.edu> tjreynol@zephyr.cair.du.edu (The Jumpin Dude) writes:
|
|if i even mentioned piercing my tongue to mom she would faint
|and probably think i was a gay satanist biker on lsd (4 mega wrongs)
|

Wow -- "gay satanist biker on lsd" -- I'm graduating in a couple of months
with little idea of what to do afterwards, and that sounds like a great thing
to try!  Thanks for the idea ... :-)

ben
From: rfa@turing.acs.virginia.edu (Robert F. Alexander)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.bodyart
Subject: Re: Home tattoo? Scarification?
Date: 9 Apr 92 04:12:47 GMT
Organization: The Turing Project, Charlottesville Virginia.

In article <1992Apr8.121414.10237@murdoch.acc.Virginia.EDU> jon@turing.acs.virginia.edu (Jon E. Gefaell (KD4CQY)) writes:
>In article <1992Apr8.035715.25295@murdoch.acc.Virginia.EDU> rfa@turing.acs.virginia.edu (Robert F. Alexander) writes:
>>I cleaned and shaved the places where they were to be put on and
>>flame sterilized the needles before starting..
>
>Same here. I've got two tattoos I did when I was rather young (about
>11 - 12) Did 'em with sewing needle, india ink, and thread. Uhm,I
>should note I was rather high off of 'hooch' (It was in a boys home,
>we got the recipe out of the whole earth cataloque. Grape juice and
>yeast, allowed to rise in a bag hidden away... :)
>
>) How about you Robert? 

Spent alot of time in Mexico, swillin Tequila and lettin some old
Meskin Dude Scribble on me with a hand pick. That's how I wound
up with the Cockroach on my Left Shoulder--Along with some other
funny shit..

BTW, Kimby seems to have her mind set
>on a dancing bear with a oar on her lucious low low lower belly :) Right 
>above Paridise.....
       ^^^^^^^^^
This one I wanna watch!! 

Whenever I come up with a few bucks..We're gonna make that trip..
Maybe Phil will want to finance us...He seems to always have plenty.
o

-- 
<>*****************************<>*****************************<>
<> Robert F. Alexander         <>  + If it ain't Fixed .....  <>
<> Radio Frequency Amplifier   <>  + Don't Break It !!        <>
<>@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@<>@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@<>
<>   Home:(804) 296-7697       <>    Office: (804) 977-5566   <>
<> rfa@turing.acs.Virginia.edu <>     I have 17 tatoos!!!     <>
<>^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^<>
<>                            //\\                            <>
From: williamt@athena.Eng.Sun.COM (Dances with Drums)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.bodyart
Subject: Re: Anasthetics and piercing
Date: 9 Apr 92 13:47:57 GMT
Reply-To: williamt@athena.Eng.sun.com (Dances with Drums)
Followup-To: alt.flame
Organization: Sun Microsystems Inc., Mountain View, CA
NNTP-Posting-Host: athena

In article <1992Apr9.025845.16001@muddcs.claremont.edu> bgribble@jarthur.claremont.edu (Bill Gribble) writes:
>If you are not trying to start a fight about this, please don't use  
>loaded phrases like "born-again Christian."  Like "PC," this is a usage
>meant for nothing but to antagonize.  It doesn't really bother me, but the
---
	From the tone of your posting, it apparently did bother you.

>fact that you used it says you're spoiling for a fight.  If this is the 
>case,  1.) note followups to alt.flame  2.) go fuck yourself.
----
	Again you are making assumptions about people.  First off you feel
'sorry' for a group of people that don't get into the experience as much
as you do, now you are assuming that I post simply to antagonize.  The
fact is I posted because I don't like you feeling 'sorry' just because
I have no desire to live my life the way you think it should be lived.

>Thanks for this gem of self-righteous assholery.  If you had read my post 
>(or, alternately, if you had the slightest clue) you would know that I said
>nothing about what is "right for everyone."
---
	Then why feel sorry for them?  Why not be happy for them?  If you have
a taste for liver that most other people don't, are you going to feel sorry
for them that they don't enjoy liver just because liver is important to you?
That seems very ego-centric.

-wat-
--
***  Dances with Drums  ***
***    DoD #0492   Steed: Kawasaki '80 750LTD                             ***
:: If pro-choice means choice after conception, does this apply to men too? ::
Newsgroups: rec.arts.bodyart
Subject: NEED R. GALLINA'S TOUR SC
From: dave.williams@chaos.lrk.ar.us (Dave Williams) 
Date: 14 Apr 92 10:57:00 GMT
Reply-To: dave.williams@chaos.lrk.ar.us (Dave Williams) 
Distribution: world
Organization: The Courts of Chaos * Jacksonville AR USA * 501-985-0059

-> for a friend of mine who wants complex ear and nose work done
-> (hmmm... could this give new meaning to the phrase "ear nose and
-> throat specialist)?

 I've seen some multiple ear piercings and double nose rings or studs,
but what's "complex"  work?
Newsgroups: rec.arts.bodyart
Subject: RE: TEMPORARY COVERUP OF
From: dave.williams@chaos.lrk.ar.us (Dave Williams) 
Date: 11 Apr 92 21:45:00 GMT
Reply-To: dave.williams@chaos.lrk.ar.us (Dave Williams) 
Distribution: world
Organization: The Courts of Chaos * Jacksonville AR USA * 501-985-0059

-> There are several foundation makeups that are intended for covering
-> scars, you should ask at your local big chain type drugstore. They

 Do you know how effective these are, and how well they hold up to
perspiration, etc?  I'm interested in how well they could deemphasize
road rash scars.
                                                                                        
Organization: Sophomore, Math/Computer Science, Carnegie Mellon, Pittsburgh, PA
Newsgroups: rec.arts.bodyart
Date: Thu, 16 Apr 1992 13:01:11 -0400 
From: "Alan S. Ferrency" <af1x+@andrew.cmu.edu>
Subject: Re: PIERCING JEWELRY
	<1992Apr15.010416.13131@mercury.cair.du.edu>

>anyone ever use platinum? or tantalum? what is tantalum?

(yes, tantalum is an element.)  Tantalum is very soft, like gold, I
believe.  So, in order to make it hard enough to make strong jewelry out
or it, I imagine you'd have to make an alloy.  The only tantalum stock
I've seen comes in very very very thin sheet (the kind they make
capacitors out of), or hollow tubes.  I'm sure it's available somewhere
else in wire form, but I haven't seen it.

> i imagine platinum is rather expensive?
So do i.

-me
From: shea@ntmtv.UUCP (Ray Shea)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.bodyart
Subject: RE: MORE NIPPLE QUESTIONS
Date: 17 Apr 92 21:01:26 GMT


In article <635.86.uupcb@chaos.lrk.ar.us>, ben.sansing writes:
> dauber@sgi.com (Jeff Dauber) raves...
> 
> >Learn something, twit.  Most of us are posting from work.
> 
> Okay, freak. 

heh, if you only knew.

> I've "learned something". You're posting from work. Big
> deal. You don't have a PC at home, you're wasting your boss' time... no
> skin off MY nose...

A *real* cross section of America posts from their PC at home, right?
Why do I get the feeling Ben is one of those little pimply-faced geeks
who comes across all tough and sarcastic on the net 'cause he knows
he's off in some Arkansas shithole where no one else will ever meet
him.

FIDONET is a real cross section of America?  Grow up, idiot.  Your
average American doesn't ever deal with any computers more complicated
than an ATM machine, never mind a whole network of computers.  I always
thought FIDONET was populated by high school nerds who stay home playing
with their dad's IBM-PC (oooh, high-tech, scaaaaaaary) because they
can't get a date.

So how old are you, Ben-wa?  Sorry you have this thing about college
students; maybe if a college would let you in you wouldn't have this
hangup.  What gives you a life that's so superior to ours?



-- 
Ray Shea			"Anti-lock brakes are a good thing, but
DoD #0372, '88 Hawk NT650	 a brain is better."
(415)940-2527							-- Osborn
ntmtv!shea@ames.arc.nasa.gov	
Newsgroups: rec.arts.bodyart
From: dauber@sgi.com (Jeff Dauber)
Subject: Re: PROBLEM.....
Organization: Silicon Graphics, Inc.
Date: Fri, 10 Apr 1992 15:19:11 GMT

In article <460.86.uupcb@chaos.lrk.ar.us> ben.sansing@chaos.lrk.ar.us (Ben Sansing)  writes:

>absolute face value" stage of life. I apologize. I'm used to dealing
>with adults.


Based on the way you behave, I cannot believe that this is true.



FWA
Newsgroups: rec.arts.bodyart
Subject: RE: HOME TATTOO? SCARIFIC
From: dave.williams@chaos.lrk.ar.us (Dave Williams) 
Date: 11 Apr 92 21:34:00 GMT
Reply-To: dave.williams@chaos.lrk.ar.us (Dave Williams) 
Distribution: world
Organization: The Courts of Chaos * Jacksonville AR USA * 501-985-0059

-> should note I was rather high off of 'hooch' (It was in a boys home,
-> we got the recipe out of the whole earth cataloque. Grape juice and
-> yeast, allowed to rise in a bag hidden away... :)

 ROFL!  Amazing how easy it is to get kids to to learn, once it is
something they're interested in...  <grin>
Newsgroups: rec.arts.bodyart
Subject: RE: TONGUE NERVE DAMAGE A
From: ben.sansing@chaos.lrk.ar.us (Ben Sansing) 
Date: 7 Apr 92 12:11:00 GMT
Reply-To: ben.sansing@chaos.lrk.ar.us (Ben Sansing) 
Distribution: world
Organization: The Courts of Chaos * Jacksonville AR USA * 501-985-0059

From: crispin@csd.uwo.ca (Crispin Cowan)
>So why DO you read this group, anyway, if you find it all so gross
>& irrational?  Just curious.

I *don't* find it *ALL* so "gross & irrational", just some of it. Other
parts of this group are gross and RATIONAL, or ungross and irrational.

Plus, all this talk about blood and mutilation stimulates me sexually.
                             
Newsgroups: rec.arts.bodyart
From: rich@island.COM (Rich Fanning)
Subject: Re: A few questions
Organization: Island Graphics Corp.
Date: Mon, 13 Apr 1992 20:12:54 GMT

ASMJC@ASUACAD.BITNET writes:

>A few questions...

>Why are nipples never tattooed?

Ahh, but they *are*!  Not mine, though. 

I've seen pictures of tattoo'd nips; the idea is to enhance their apparent
size by using a tan colored ink which resembles the natural color of
the aureola (sp?).

Interesting idea, but I'll keep mine natural, thank you.

-- 

     Rich Fanning       {sun,uunet}!island!rich
			    rich@island.COM
Newsgroups: rec.arts.bodyart
From: jaywb@juliet.caltech.edu (Bromley, Jay W.)
Subject: A question of aesthetics
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.40    
Keywords: left/right symmetry/whatever
Organization: California Institute of Technology
Date: Fri, 10 Apr 1992 11:57:00 GMT

   Alright then, so all this rage about left/right side piercings got
me to wondering to what people actually found pleasing (leaving aside
left=straight and whatever if possible) in terms of pierce location.
   I myself find a like a certain assymetry.  Why?  I'm not quite sure
except maybe I'm just unbalanced myself. :)  Right now I've got four
pierces in my left ear, but as soon as I find a job and get some money
I intend to get a pierce midway up my right ear, a librette on the right
side of my lower lip, and a pierce of my left nipple.  I seem to favor
the left side, maybe cos I'm right-brained or something (what was it?
left brain=analytical?).  I also want to get a PA, but it's hard to not
be symmetric there! ;)
   So let me know what you thing about this aesthetics thing, I'm
pretty curious, and it would be a welcome reprieve from the surrounding
flame wars.
Regards.  

########################## You can't get a suntan on the moon, but I 
jay bromley, space cadet | wouldn't mind a vacation there, all expenses
jaywb@juliet.caltech.edu | paid, courtesy of NASA