From: ethridge@crchh403 (Allen Ethridge)
Subject: Re: I feel threatened by Christianity...
Date: Tue, 12 Jan 1993 19:42:17 GMT
Organization: BNR, Inc.
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1 PL6]

sperry2699@iscsvax.uni.edu wrote:
: In article <1993Jan11.214149.22353@netcom.com>, bskendig@netcom.com (Brian Kendig) writes:
: > I just saw part of Pat Robertson's TV show "The 700 Club" for the
: > first time today while I was home on my lunch break, and I'll admit,
: > it frightened me.  I was never really aware of what large Christian
: > organizations are doing these days.
: > 
: > Robertson kept talking about how society is moving farther and farther
: > away from God, and how this nation is falling into such sinful
: > activities as drug use, murder, abortion, homosexuality and sodomy,
: > and materialism as a result.  
: 
: Society IS moving further away from God.  Don't you believe drug use or murder
: (for example) are sin?

Drug use is not sin, and murder sometimes has its place.  However, drug abuse
and violence are not a result of moving away from God, they are the result
of overpopulation, poverty, poor health and nutrition, ecological problems,
etc.  They have natural, not spiritual, causes.

: 
: > He urged his audience to rally together
: > and fight the anti-Christian oppression.  He spoke highly of the fight
: > to put official prayer back into schools, 
: 
: There should be a time set aside for those who wish to pray.  Possibly a break
: from the classroom.  Is it so bad to have 20 min set aside for people to pray?

Is it so bad for people who want to spend 20 minutes praying to pray before
going to school or after coming home?  There's nothing special about school
hours that makes prayer necessary at that time.  And what about those who
wish not to pray?  Why should their school day be lengthened and they be
subjected to practices they find offensive?

: 
: > and he encouraged the
: > pro-life crowd to keep striving for their goal, 
: 
: Why not.  The NOW people are always pushing the pro-abortion side.

Yes, but the pro-choice people aren't trying to force other people to follow
their rules.

: 
: > and he even did an
: > interview with one of the lawyers from a Christian legal firm which is
: > working to defend the ability of students to distribute pro-life
: > pamphlets in schools.  
: 
: Isn't that a good thing?  Shouldn't people be defending the pro-lifer's rights? 
: Others do a good job of defending the pro-abortion side.

This is nonsense - no one is trying to take a pro-lifer's rights away - no one
is mandating abortion.  The pro-choice people are defending the right to
choose - the anti-abortion people are trying to take that right away.

: 
: > Throughout the whole time I watched him,
: > Robertson kept talking about his desire to return America to
: > traditional family values, despite his opposition (which, it could be
: > inferred from his words, is quite morally depraved).
: 
: There is a lacking of traditional family values in this country.  If you don't
: see that problem, then maybe you are part of it.

Or maybe you are just ignorant.  Traditional family values - ignoring child
and sexual abuse, tolerating wife-beating, pretending that the "family" is
so sacred that nothing can be allowed to interfere with it no matter how
much damage is done to individual in the family.  I much prefer the rights
of the individual.  The reasons tradition family values are disappearing are
1) they don't work, and 2) it's just a rallying slogan with no real meaing
to those who advocate it.

: 
: > I'm worried.  What am I to do if much of this comes to pass?  I don't
: > want my children to be singled out by sitting quietly during a school
: > prayer, 
: 
: What's the difference?  Your kids don't have to pray if they don't want to. 
: Isn't that good enough?

No, it's not good enough.  The implicit message to the child is that he/she
is somehow inadequate by not conforming.  So the child begins to want to
pray, despite the "family values" being taught at home (say, like Jesus
taught, to not pray in public).  This of course destroys the family.  Besides,
any child who wants to pray can always do so, during his lunch break or 
between classes.

Would you favor prayer in schools if the prayers were led by Muslims or
perhaps witches?

: 
: > I don't want my tax money to be spent on a public nativity
: > scene, 
: 
: Too late.  It already is.
: 
: > I don't want Jehovah's Witnesses to come by my door (as they
: > did twice right after Christmas).  
: 
: They have the right to walk the streets and spread the twisted gospel that they
: do (unfortunately).

Yes, they have the right to walk the streets, but not on my property!

: 
: > I just want to be left alone, and
: > not have well-meaning people try to bring the word of Jesus to me, and
: 
: Then tell them to leave.  Is that too hard?

Then why are you telling him he can't have people leave him alone"  You
want to subject his children to prayer in school, prevent his wife from
getting a legal abortion, and in general require him to conform to your
values.  Why don't you stop advocating interference in other peoples' lives?

: 
: > not have a well-meaning government decide what's morally best for me.
: 
: Good!  Then oppose the liberal government that we have and push for the
: conservative stand!

Liberals take your money but they leave your values alone - you can practice
what you want.  Conversatives on the other hand always try to get everyone
to conform to their values, which is precisely what he doesn't want.  Liberal
would probably be a better choice if these are the only reasons.

: 
: > I have my own moral values which I'm perfectly happy to keep to
: > myself.  Heck, I won't even complain about the "In God We Trust" on
: > all my money, if it would just convince the Christians to keep their
: > religion out of my life.
: > 
: > I'm overreacting, I know, but just seeing Pat Robertson voicing a lot
: > of arguments so one-sided 
: 
: I hate to break it to you, but your side is only one also.

Yes, but he has the right to his side, which is something religious people
like you want to take away.  That's the real problem.

: 
: > I'm surprised they don't fall over is bad
: > enough -- seeing him on TV, with the phones around him ringing off the
: > hook with people pledging money to support him, really got to me.  How
: > _dare_ he try to pass _himself_ off as the oppressed one!
: 
: Christianity is opressed in the U.S.  However, I've always heard that the
: opressed Church is the best!

This is simply ignorance, if not dishonesty.  You're much less likely to be
discriminated against in the U.S. if you are a Christian than any other
religion.  The only "oppression" that Christians suffer is not being able to
force their values on other people, although y'all are making progress,
and that's what triggered the original post!

:  
: 
: ECM
: 

--
allen@well.sf.ca.us
ethridge@bnr.ca
my opinions are my ow
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