From: prasanth@gn.ecn.purdue.edu (Ravi K. Prasanth)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.indian
Subject: Re: Respect for women in India/Pakistan/An
Date: 16 Oct 92 10:25:44 GMT
Organization: Purdue University Engineering Computer Network

In article <12835@hardy.rl.ac.uk>, ka@wan.inf.rl.ac.uk (Kalid Akhram (student-david;until 31/12/92)) writes:
> 
> e.g. having an extra-marital affair. But he is *not* allowed to beat
> his wife whenever he feels like it. 

True. But is the wife allowed to beat the husband for having
an extra-marital affair ? In AL-NISA (16-19), it says

"Confront those of your women who are guilty of unbecoming
 conduct with four witnesses. If they bear witness, then
 confine the women to their houses till death overtakes
 then or Allah opens a way for them"

Can women confine men guilty of unbecoming conduct ? Can a
woman have more than one husband ?

> for it in the afterlife. I believe the wife can press charges against 
> him, under Islamic Shariah. If he is unbearable she may divorce him.

True.

> For the best example of Islamic behavoiur, we look at the life of the
> prophet. He *never* beat his wives. 

I dont mean to be disrespectful. What proof other than Koran do you 
have ? 

> is only half the story; there is also an incentive to do good; the
> pleasures of heaven and living in paradise for eternity and no death.

True.

> God, Allah, The Creator is an even greater incentive. Fear of burning
> in hell is one hell-of-a good reason not to rape, child-molest. Don't 
> you think??? 

Then, why do some people who read Koran daily and offer prayers rape ?
IMO, it is not "hell"-of-a good reason even though I will go to Hell
for not thinking so.

> It *is* a solution, because if people believed, they wouldn't do
> bad things. Can you not see the logic here and that it *would* work??

There is no logic in here. You will always claim that a muslim
who did "bad things" didn't really believe in the Koran. Can you
claim (with justification) that a person who doesnt believe in
the Koran or another religion is a "bad" person ? 

> The number of births outside marriage has doubled since 1982. Imagine the
> number of single parent families. I'm not saying that its wrong. But the
> additional pressures can lead to child abuse, alcoholism, drugs, very easily.

What causes "the additional pressures" ? Isn't it the reluctance of
society to accept single parent families ? What you fail to see is
that a true believer stays drugged 24 hrs a day ?

> Is it right for a 14 year old mother to bring up a kid and work and 
> go to school? This happens man. 

I do not understand the question. Are you asking if it is right
for a 14 year old to become mother or is it that if it is right
for a 14 year old mother to bring up a kid and ... ?

> But it wouldn't in an islamic society. Can you
> not see that the "free-for-all" philosophy creates chaos?
>

I can see that free-for-all philosophy will create chaos if we
went for it right now. 

> and raped? Why is it that AIDS is an epidemic? These things are not

AIDS is caused by a virus. It has nothing to do with disbelief
in religion. 

> the mark of a "civilised" nation. If this is what "freedom" has given
> us, then I for one would rather choose the restrictive world of Islam

I have no objections to what you choose to believe. I would ask
you to understand that there are many people who do not subscribe
to any religion and are as moral as any person can be. There are
also believers who commit immoral acts. What you are failing to
accept is that moral behaviour comes from a sense of responsiblity
which may or may not have been cultivated by religion. 

> If the men who do bad things *believed* it to be wrong and feared
> punishment from God - they would not do the bad things.
> 
> [stuff deleted]
>
> Can you not see that the concept of complete "freedom" does not work?
> 
> Hey, I am not pointing the finger elsewhere. It is a *fact* that Islam
> is not being practiced. 

No religion is practiced anywhere !!!

> You've completely missed the point of my discussion!!!!
> You've told me that my religious argument is not the answer, 

Looks like you have missed my point. Your solution requires every
one in the world (or in a society) to believe in Islam which as you
have stated is not practiced anywhere. Can you see why your 
solution wont work ?

You can build machines that look alike. Can you restrict people
from thinking differently ? IMO, an acceptable solution to our
problems must recognize that humans have a great variety of
beliefs and customs and must keep all distinctions in harmony.
Your solution requires that I leave my beliefs aside and start
following yours for fear of punishment.

How about you believing in Christianity or Hinduism ?

I do not have a solution to all the worlds problems. I feel that
complete freedom in a world of savages will not solve the problems.
But, freedom with a sense of responsibility might. 

> Yours,
> 
> Khalid
> nationality: human
> birth place: planet earth
> 

RKP
Newsgroups: soc.culture.indian