From: jsw@cray.com (Jon S. Wood)
Newsgroups: soc.men
Subject: Re: War on Fathers (was: StipU whatever
Date: 11 Nov 92 15:32:32 GMT
Reply-To: jsw@cray.com
Organization: Cray Research, Inc.

In article 2959@midway.uchicago.edu, mec6@quads.uchicago.edu (rini) writes:
>xenon@drycas.club.cc.cmu.edu writes:
>
>>What is going on in the divorce courts of America is nothing less than a 
>>war against fathers and fatherhood, perpetrated by an unholy alliance of 
>>self-righteous social workers, man-haters, and judges wallowing in the 
>>egotistical fantasy of themselves as noble saviours of oh-so-grateful 
>>women.  What they are creating is a nation of children without fathers, 
>>and an ever-growing body of impoverished, disempowered, rootless and 
>>angry men.  
>
>Well, let's not misrepresent the data on this. 

 By ignoring the changes to the system since 1987, you are definitely 
misrepresenting data! 
>
>Let's take family income at time t.  Say a divorce happens at time t.
>How does that effect the income of men and women?  What is the ratio
>of income in subsequent years to the income before the divorce?
>
>                     Years after time t
>                    1        3         5
>                 -------------------------
>women             .81      .97      1.01
>men               .84      .99      1.03
>(no divorce)     1.17     1.17      1.28
>
>As you can see, women are economically hit harder by divorce than men are.
>(They would both be better off if they could stay together.)

  Bullhockey! A transfer of 30% income from man to women on the day
of divorce doesn't cut it. Census data collected before there were
ANY laws in regard to AUTOMATIC garnishment tells me that this information
was collected by asking people's opinions. Hell, if my income had
rose by 100% after the divorce (lotto or stole cash from an obviously
rich man who walked out on his family, these mythical beasts created
by wimins groups) would I tell the census people? Would momma claim
anything but poverty? The census should be abolished!
>
>Also note that in 1987, a whopping 6.2% of divorced women were supposed
>to recieve alimony payments. 

What percent of wives worked in 1987? Mythical beast #2, that ogres with
dicks beat wives into stayin' home and have babies, THEN walk out on
them. 
>
>Child-support payments are supposed to be paid to about half (51.3% in 
>1987) of the women who divorced with children under 21.  The average 
>payment for one child in 1987 was $2,247/yr. For three children, the 
>average payment was $3,368.  All of these figures have been *remarkably* 
>stable since 1978.

 Again, statistics made up out of thin air. 

Comparing pre-1987 Mn law changes versus post 1987 child support guidelines
is like comparing apples and oranges. This is the kind of bullshit stats
that Hillary and her father hating clan like to use when testifying before
state legislators, forever skewing statistical lies in their favor. 


The only UNremarkable statistic that has remained stable is that 90% of
the women in divorce retain custody of their children! Of the remaining
10%, 6 out of 10 abandon their children, the remainder is a knock out
drag out fight where the man must prove beyond a reasonable doubt that
the women is not only incompetant but a danger to herself and her
children.

Again, statistics made up out of thin air. 

>
>rini
>
>source: Child Support and Alimony: 1987.  US Bureau of the Census,
>Current Population Reports.

The US Bureau of the Census collects data that is worthless.

The US Bureau of the Census collects "opinions" refered to as data.

The stupid US bureau of the Census is probably still trying to locate
the mythical millions of homeless children they were told existed. The bastards
should be looking for the homeless down at Hennepin County Government Center,
they create homeless fathers by the thousands every week.

Since 1987, Hennepin County has had automatic garnishment of all 
noncustodial parents wages. Since 1987, Hennepin COunty has collected
a much larger percentage of NCPs wages than ever before. In 1991,
the Mpls Star-Tribune reported that the percentage of men paying
child support has gone down and the amount of child support payed
has increase astronomically. 

Lower income NCPs ran for the hills when faced with garnishment
that left them destitute.

Mn child support guidelines make a mockery of your 1987 Census stats.
Unfortunately, we'll never hear about it or see it in the newspapers.
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