HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: crywalt@vaxc.stevens-tech.edu (Christopher Rywalt, maladjusted cartoonist)
Newsgroups: rec.games.pinball
Subject: Re: Quick Pinball Vote
Date: 29 Jul 92 17:36:59 GMT
Organization: Fairleigh Dickinson University

In article <1992Jul29.042016.28919@wixer.cactus.org>, lestat@wixer.cactus.org (Lyle J. Mackey) writes:
> My top 5:
> 
>     #5 : Gorgar
>     #4 : Black Knight (the original)
>     #3 : Firepower (the original)
>     #2 : The Addams' Family
>     #1 : High Speed (the original)

	Holy shit, it's been AGES since I even THOUGHT of Gorgar.  Man,
	that was a wild game (at the time, anyway).  I remember my family
	used to drag me to a campground in upstate Pennsylvania which has
	a little arcade where you occasionally find ancient games; a couple
	of years ago, they had Firepower (the original); I played The Spirit
	of '76 there (sometimes it was broken and would give you 7 balls on
	one quarter); I was introduced to the Black Knight there; and they
	once had Gorgar.  I remember it because they had the volume up so
	loud you could hear it from about 1OO yards away, yelling "GORGAR!".

	By the way, if anyone is looking for older machines in good condition,
	and they happen to be in the eastern PA area, I can direct you to
	the campground; after that, tracking down the distributor is your
	problem.



-- Chris

%SYSTEM-F-ACCVIO, access violation, reason mask=00, virtual address=00000000, PC
=0000BFEF, PSL=03C00009
%TRACE-F-TRACEBACK, symbolic stack dump follows
module name     routine name                     line       rel PC    abs PC
                                                                                
SIGNATURE	main				 2226      00000107  0000BFEF
Newsgroups: rec.games.pinball
From: lestat@wixer.cactus.org (Lyle J. Mackey)
Subject: Re: Quick Pinball Vote
Keywords: 2-ball multi-ball, million plus ;^)
Organization: Real/Time Communications
Date: Wed, 29 Jul 92 04:20:16 GMT

In article <6324@tekig7.PEN.TEK.COM> jerryc@tekig7.PEN.TEK.COM (Jerry C Carathers) writes:
>
>Well fellow pinheads, how about us generating a mid-year impromtu vote for our
>top five favorite pinballs of all time. I know, I know, we have kosher ways of
>doing this on a semi-annual basis, but a little informal discussion is fine on
>such a low traffic group, IMHO.

My top 5:

    #5 : Gorgar
    #4 : Black Knight (the original)
    #3 : Firepower (the original)
    #2 : The Addams' Family
    #1 : High Speed (the original)

So I kinda like some of the older games, mainly because they were the ones I
grew up with (Firepower being the first multiball game I ever came across) and
learned the finer points of pinball on.

High Speed was what rekindled my addiction to pinball, and TAF is what keeps it
alive these days.  Too many of the modern games rely too heavily on gimmicks and
not enough on real playability (HSII being a prime example, IMHO).

Give me the original High Speed over HSII any day of the week.  I just wish I
could find one in decent shape in the Austin area. (anyone? anyone?)

-- 
 .--------------------------------------------------------------------------.
/ Lyle J \ lestat@wixer.cactus.org /  Team Doofus  \ DoD / Nobody else WANTS \
\ Mackey /     Social Engineer     \ '89 Kaw EX500 / 587 \  my  opinions...  /
 `--------------------------------------------------------------------------'
Newsgroups: rec.games.pinball
From: walshm@craft.camp.clarkson.edu (Matt 'MTM' Walsh)
Subject: AID module for Bally SS
Organization: Clarkson University
Date: Fri, 24 Jul 1992 16:42:43 GMT

I have two MPU's I have to fix, one from a Lost World, and the orhter
from an Evil Kneivel.  i have a lot of work ahead, I can tell, but was curious
to kn ow if anyone ever bought or used the AID module that they talk about in the]
Bally repair book.  It seems to make life easier, and didn't look too hard to
build.

mail to matt@walsh.dme.battelle.org

--
Matt Walsh  walshm@craft.camp.clarkson.edu
How can you have your pudding if you don't eat your meat? You! Yes You!
From: josh@cqs.washington.edu (Josh Hayes)
Newsgroups: rec.games.pinball
Subject: Re: Quick Pinball Vote
Keywords: 2-ball multi-ball, million plus ;^)
Date: 28 Jul 92 18:31:11 GMT
Organization: University of Washington

Of all time? Geez, after looking at the four followups so
far on my nn list, I can't believe any of you people are
old enough to drive - all the machines are only a year
or so old! Don't you remember the thrill of the older games?

Here's MY list, mostly based on nostalgia, I admit....

5) TAF
4) Paragon (Bally) (LOVED this game)
3) Eight Ball (Bally) (NOT "Deluxe)
2) King Kool (Gottlieb) (This is pretty obscure, I know....)
1) Funhouse. The champ, for ever and ever, amen.

So, call me an iconoclast.....

Josh

--
Josh Hayes, Quantitative Sciences HR-20 U of Washington
josh@mowgli.cqs.washington.edu             206 685-2793
Exclaimer: Hey!           Plan: Birth School Work Death
Newsgroups: rec.games.pinball
From: gleeson@mundil.cs.mu.OZ.AU (Martin Joseph GLEESON)
Subject: Re: HSII Backglass
Organization: Computer Science, University of Melbourne, Australia
Date: Sat, 25 Jul 1992 06:30:23 GMT

In <1992Jul24.205749.22491@news.Hawaii.Edu> irace@kaula.keck.hawaii.edu (Will Irace (jnr)) writes:

>I'm surprised I haven't seen this discussed previously, but 
>perhaps I missed it somewheres. Anyway...
>Has anyone noticed that the guy driving the hotrod on the 
>backglass in HSII looks amazingly like Steve Ritchie? 

It has, you did, and it is :-)

----------------------=============***O***=============-------------------------
Martin J. Gleeson   | Computer Science, Melbourne Uni, Oz |    ...  __o    Outta
gleeson@cs.mu.oz.au |  E Pluribus Unix  |  BIKE  IT   !!  |  ...   -\<,       my
" We gladly feast on those who would subdue us." - Addams |  ....(_)/(_)..  way!
 "I can't give you brains, but I can give you a diploma." - The Wizard of Oz
----------------------=============***O***=============-------------------------
From: knudsen@cbnewsd.cb.att.com (michael.j.knudsen)
Newsgroups: rec.games.pinball
Subject: Re: Backglass Restoration
Date: 23 Jul 92 18:21:47 GMT
Distribution: na
Organization: AT&T

In article <1992Jul17.173356.10018@ncsu.edu>, bcasper@eos.ncsu.edu (Brian Casper) writes:
> hide the brush strokes very well.  I was using Testors model paints - I like
> them for playfields (especially Bally because the pigments match very well.)

Lucky you.  I've been trying to touch up a WIZARD and the Testor's red
and orange are both too dark.  Blue is OK, and yellow would probably match
the original paint, except it's somewhat darker now due to ground-in dirt.
(White is impossible to match on any playfield, except wit ivory or cream).

> The general concensus that I've heard among most collectors is that unless the
> glass is _really_ flaked or peeling, just seal it and leave it alone.  An
> old  machine is expected to show _some_ signs of wear and often, it is partly
> what gives a particular machine its character.  If you do a touch up on a glass

That's what I've heard too.  Poor touch-ups are worse than the original
peeling -- you can hide the latter by removing some bulbs.

> Oh yeah - if you seal it first with something like Cover Your Glass (tm) then
> you can safely retouch over the sealant and if you screw up, you can thin
> it off carefully and try again without harming the origional artwork.

Right.  Best is to use Cover-Your-Glass Lite(tm), which leaves a thin film
of sealant over the glass, thus avoiding any 3-D parallax effects on your
touch-up patches.  Once you get the touch-up right, you can apply
another coat of CYG Lite or the regular CYG.  Note that regular CYG leaves
about a 1/16 inch thickness of acrylic.

BTW, a more recent PBT article mentioned pseudo-stained-glass paints
as a good thing to try.

I want my....I want my....I want my PBT.....
-- 
"R-E-C-P-E-K-T -- that's what Quayle won't give to me!"
  Programmers Do It on paper.  So do puppies.
	knudsen@iexist.att.com
From: crywalt@vaxc.stevens-tech.edu (Christopher Rywalt, maladjusted cartoonist)
Newsgroups: rec.games.pinball
Subject: Re: top 10
Date: 31 Jul 92 17:28:07 GMT
Organization: Fairleigh Dickinson University

In article <1992Jul30.180636.1584@ucbeh.san.uc.edu>, rettigca@ucbeh.san.uc.edu writes:
> ...and flames for this I can understand....T2 
> due to its open layout. The worst thing I think a pin can have is a wide open
> layout. Nice visuals and sound though. (In my list above Black Hole and Pinbot
> could be considered in this category but they have other gimmicks going for
> them to justify it [ie second level in BH and opening mask in Pinbot]) I just
> cannot see a cannon being a good counterbalance.

	You're absolutely right!  I hate open playfields sooooo much.
	I think that's why I have so much trouble with T2, and so many
	other machines.  Williams likes to clutter up its pins, and I
	just go nuts over lots of thing to bump into, so that's probably
	why I like their stuff; except T2.  What happened?


-- Chris

%SYSTEM-F-ACCVIO, access violation, reason mask=00, virtual address=00000000, PC
=0000BFEF, PSL=03C00009
%TRACE-F-TRACEBACK, symbolic stack dump follows
module name     routine name                     line       rel PC    abs PC
                                                                                
SIGNATURE	main				 2226      00000107  0000BFEF
Newsgroups: rec.games.pinball
From: kak1@cypress31.cray.com (Kevin Kramer)
Subject: Re: Quick Pinball Vote
Originator: kak1@cypress31
Keywords: 2-ball multi-ball, million plus ;^)
Organization: Cray Research, Inc.
Date: 29 Jul 92 09:57:53 CDT


OK, time for my $.05 worth:

5 - Gorgon                - the first machine to really get my attention

4 - Space Invaders        - I miss this old simpistic machine with the
                            good mean backglass graphics

3 - Dungeons & Dragons    - I got so good at the side drain buttons
                            that I never lost a ball down the side.

2 - Earthshaker/Wirlwind  - both seem to come out at the same time
                            had about the same theme, and both were
                            loads of fun.

1 - The Addams Family     - This seems to be the general consensus
                            A excellent game.


I think that TAF is so popular because of the fact that there are
so many different ways to make points.  There are far to many recent
games where you shoot target A, then target B, then target C, then
target D . . . . . . . .   until you finally get your one shot at the
big points, and if you screw up, you go back to square one  (Gilligans
Isle is a good example, T2 is alot like this as well)  This is all
IMHO, maybe I am just getting picky.

Kevin
From: ben@monmouth.edu (Bennett Broder)
Newsgroups: rec.games.pinball
Subject: Re: My Top 5 - really Whirlwind
Date: 29 Jul 92 13:52:52 GMT
Organization: Monmouth College, W. Long Branch, NJ  07764

In article <Bs4xIs.9LH@news.udel.edu> moody@brahms.udel.edu (John David Moody) writes:
>5.  Whirlwind
>
>Good shot variety, and not overly difficult.  I must admit that the upper ramp
>shot (for million/million plus) is the most difficult shot I know of.  Even
>when playing a single ball, it is difficult, not to mention trying to hit it
>during multiball.  Overall quite good.

The difficulty of the million plus ramp is highly dependent on the
individual game.  The machine at our college center, with dirty
mylar and a fairly weak flipper is almost impossible.  You can get
the ball up the ramp, but it seldom has enough oomph to make it all
the way around.  The Whirlwind at Bowcraft amusements, with waxed
weekly diamond-plate and a strong flipper is very much easier.  A clean
shot to the ramp almost always has enough power to make it around.
(Was diamond-plate an option for Whirlwind, or did they change from mylar
to d.p. midway through the production run?)

I have found the same disparity with the ramp in Earthshaker... very easy
on some machines, nearly impossible on others.

-- 

Bennett Broder               Monmouth College
                             Computer Services
ben@monmouth.edu             W. Long Branch, NJ 07764
Newsgroups: rec.games.pinball
From: bcasper@eos.ncsu.edu (Brian Casper)
Subject: Re: AID module for Bally SS
Originator: bcasper@c00100-100lez.eos.ncsu.edu
Reply-To: bcasper@eos.ncsu.edu
Organization: North Carolina State University
Date: Fri, 24 Jul 1992 17:55:19 GMT


In article <walshm.711996163@craft.camp.clarkson.edu>, walshm@craft.camp.clarkson.edu (Matt 'MTM' Walsh) writes:
|>I have two MPU's I have to fix, one from a Lost World, and the orhter
|>from an Evil Kneivel.  i have a lot of work ahead, I can tell, but was curious
|>to kn ow if anyone ever bought or used the AID module that they talk about in the]
|>Bally repair book.  It seems to make life easier, and didn't look too hard to
|>build.

I'm glad somebody finally brought this up... I've been meaning to ask this
very question for a long time now.  Has anybody ever even _seen_ an AID module?
Other than the limited description that is in the diagnostics manual, I have
no idea what this thing is.  I've seen/used the large Bally test rigs when I 
was in Steve Engel's basement and also once while I was out at the tech
shop in Brady Distributing, but I know this isn't the same thing.  Does
anybody have a copy of the test ROM that is used to exercise the boards?

I've also thought about making a test rig from a gutted machine.  It would be
pretty easy to take a complete wiring harness and mount it to a board with
rows of lamps, switches, and maybe another bank of lamps for the solenoids.
This would make a decent exerciser for the driver boards, but CPU's would still
be another story...  Anybody have any thoughts or opinions?  It seems like
it would be nice to have if it would get lots of yuse, but I wonder how much
use it would _really_ get...
-- 
-- 
Brian Casper                |   "I like to study psychologists.  It gives
bcasper@eos.ncsu.edu        |    good insight into what rats are thinking."
  Pinball Consultant        |     -  Dr. Oscar Wesler
From: ung@felix.filenet.com (Bill Ung)
Newsgroups: rec.games.pinball
Subject: Re: Bad CMOS RAM on Black Knight
Date: 23 Jul 92 20:14:09 GMT
Reply-To: ung@fritz.filenet.com (Bill Ung)
Organization: FileNet Corp., Costa Mesa, CA

In article <Brpw3J.CF5@watserv1.waterloo.edu> shewchun@boomer.waterloo.edu (Dave Shewchun) writes:
|I recently acquired a Black Knight machine.  At first, the CPU board passed
|all it's diagnostics, although the machine did have some odd behaviour
|(like giving you infinite balls, and never ending the game).  Now the CPU
|board fails with error code 8, which is bad CMOS RAM.  Does anyone know
|if these diagnostics are accurate?  Should I go ahead and try to replace
|the CMOS RAM chip?  What are the odds of me being able to find this chip
|anywhere?

Your CMOS RAM chip is probably just fine.  It sounds like your batteries
are weak or dead.  Purchase new batteries and install them, then try the
test again.  In the event that it is actually a bad CMOS chip, I don't
think it would be too hard to get a replacement ... they should be pretty
standard chips, it's just a memory chip, there's no game-specific program
information stored on it, just high scores and game settings.  I assume
you have a manual, or maybe there's a number on the chip.  Check with a
local electronics supply store (Radio Shack, if you have no other
alternative) for a replacement part.  Otherwise, look up folks in the
Pinball Trader or send me Email, I'm ordering stuff from WICO soon and
can just throw the chip onto my order so you don't have to order $25.00
worth of stuff.

Slightly off the subject (but still related), is there a way to change
the batteries in a game WITHOUT losing the high scores and game settings?
I've had my game for about 2-3 months, it came with Ray-O-Vac Alkaline
batteries installed (at least they're alkaline!) but I have no idea how
old they are.  I'd just as soon replace them with new alkalines so I'd
have a better idea as to their age.  I'd like to do that before the
current set fails and I'd like to preserve my CMOS while I do it.
Anybody have any experience with this?  I'd really hate to lose my 9.8
million high score :-)  (Yes, 9.8 million is a lot, this is HIGH SPEED
1986, not TAF 1992)  Also, does anyone know how long a set of new
Energizers might last?

Bill Ung
  ung@filenet.com
From: pazar@hpnmdla.sr.hp.com (Steve Pazar)
Date: Tue, 28 Jul 1992 20:40:49 GMT
Subject: Re: Bally Paragon Help needed
Organization: Hewlett-Packard, Santa Rosa, CA
Newsgroups: rec.games.pinball

Sean,
  As far as I can tell the back box on PARAGON is the same size as the
  other standard sized Bally machines of that era. I have a spare 
  backbox from an EVIL KEINEVIL that should work, but I'd like to keep
  the "guts". The problem you may have is finding a backglass. I was
  able to find one for my PARAGON from someone on the net. He may know
  where to get another one. Hope you're able to get it going, I raelly
  enjoy mine...lots of diverse and challenging targets. And the artwork
  is very nice to boot. I also have the manual if you need a copy.
  Good luck, and try not to scrap it out!!!

		    Steve Pazar
		    pazar@hpnmdla.sr.hp.com
From: bdm@druwa.ATT.COM (Brian Millham)
Newsgroups: rec.games.pinball
Subject: Re: Quick Pinball Vote
Date: 29 Jul 92 14:21:31 GMT

5) Elvira
4) Dr. Dude
3) Taxi
2) TAF
1) High Speed (not II, the original)
--
Brian Millham     Kitty, Ferrah, Dr. Pepper, Fletch, and Buddy
AT&T Bell Labs     ^     ^ ferrets    ^,        ^  cats    ^
Denver, Co.       Dragon's Lair, Kick Man, Sinistar, New World, High Speed
bdm@druwa.att.com  ^ laser disc       ^ video ^        ^ pinball ^
From: josh@cqs.washington.edu (Josh Hayes)
Newsgroups: rec.games.pinball
Subject: older games
Date: 29 Jul 92 21:28:17 GMT
Organization: University of Washington

It's been interesting to read the lists of favorite games,
but what I like most has been reading the oldies (read, "older
than 1990" :-) ) games that pop up. Generally, my reaction
has been "Meteor! Yeah, I forgot that one!", and "Playboy!
Boy that was a fun game!".

I guess my feeling has come to be that "top five games" is
a pretty silly idea....I've been playing pinball enthusiastically
for about twenty years now, and that means that I've played
a lot of different machines, and liked a lot of them. Maybe
a question of more general interest would be "What FEATURES
of a game make it a good game (or conversely, a bad game) for
you?"

For me, for example, I love drop targets. I also like machines
that may be fairly slow but require exacting shot accuracy,
and that punish you when you miss. This means that I tend to
like the old Gottliebs, which often had forests of drop targets
to hit in particular orders or groupings and killed you if you
missed the target by an inch. They also often took the whole game
on a tilt, not just ball in play....what do other people think?

Josh Hayes


--
Josh Hayes, Quantitative Sciences HR-20 U of Washington
josh@mowgli.cqs.washington.edu             206 685-2793
Exclaimer: Hey!           Plan: Birth School Work Death
From: overturf@bigbootay.sw.stratus.com (Dallas Overturf)
Newsgroups: rec.games.pinball
Subject: Re: TAF, the full quote list, I dont think so....
Date: 28 Jul 92 17:40:13 GMT
Organization: Stratus Computer, Software Engineering


I think your missing a quote from Cousin It himself!
 
"I don't want no trouble"

This or what appears to be this quote is heard at times when hitting
Cousin it lit or not.  The quote appears to vary in speed and there
is only one speed at which the quote seems clear. 
If you don't pay attention to it you'll just pass it off as more
of It's babling.  At first I was not sure but recall that even in the 
tv show, "It" is occasionally kinda clear.  I've not seen the movie so
I've no idea if this fits in with it or not.

At any rate Lyman and Lee seemed to think I might be correct,
so I'll let all of you listen hard and think on it.  Every
time It bables see if you can fit in the phrase 
"I don't want no trouble".


			Happy Listening,		Dallas...
Newsgroups: rec.games.pinball
From: mpalmer@encore.com (Mike Palmer)
Subject: HELP!  Flakey operation - Questions
Organization: Encore Computer Corporation
Date: Fri, 24 Jul 1992 23:59:45 GMT

I have a FLASH pinball that operates most of the time wuite well, but 
occasionally the displays go blank and only power off/power on restores
operation.  The flippers are usually in use when this happens.  I notice that
there are no diodes across the flipper contacts, like there are on all other
switches.  Is this normal? 

Any ideas anyone?

Regards,	
Mike palmer    				Telephone: (305) 797-2326 (W)
email: mpalmer@encore.com               	   (305) 746-3146 (H)
From: overturf@bigbootay.sw.stratus.com (Dallas Overturf)
Newsgroups: rec.games.pinball
Subject: Speaking of Diamond Plate
Date: 29 Jul 92 22:37:29 GMT
Organization: Stratus Computer, Software Engineering


And while Jerry mentions diamond plate that reminds me;
I've been meaning to pop out this question on the net
for awhile now:

How many of you have seen machines that are Definitely
Diamond plated and seen problems with them.

I'd be especially curious about Terminators and TAFs as we
know they get a lot of play :)


My own encounter with it so far in this area is 

Two TAFs with a small nick in the middle of the playfield
both machines seemed to be maintained in reasonably good condition.

One TAF with a chip by the Book case I'll give this to poor adjustment
of the hight of the bookcase.

Also one TAF with the wood grain comming through: The wood must
not have been thouroughly dry.


My opinion of diamond plate:

 Not bad; but I still think the high traffic areas need they
 mylar. 

			Opinions??

				Regards,	Dallas...
Newsgroups: rec.games.pinball