HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: tjk5@po.CWRU.Edu (Timothy J. Kordas)
Subject: Re: Fusion
Summary: Groovy interface, seen it?
Keywords: GUI
Organization: Case Western Reserve University, Cleveland, OH (USA)
Date: Wed, 15 Apr 1992 14:50:43 GMT

In article <900377c.703297759@aucs> 900377c@aucs.acadiau.ca (Robert Campbell) writes:

>Hi there. Awhile back someone mentioned a beta version of something
>called Fusion, an FTP similar program that displayed directories
>graphically. Has anyone seen it or tried it? What kind of memory does
>this thing take? Just curious...

>Rob Campbell, or 900377c@aucs.acadiau.ca

This is the original post, the program itself runs only on SGI workstations
and isn't described as an interface:....




From: joel@jellotrees.esd.sgi.com (Joel Tesler)
Subject: 3D File System Navigator for SGI machines available via anonymous 
FTP
Organization: Silicon Graphics, Inc.
Date: Mon, 30 Mar 92 
18:18:37 GMT

A 3D file system navigator for silicon graphics machines is 
available via anonymous FTP from sgi.sgi.com.  It can be found in ~ftp/sgi/
fsn. The following is extracted from the README.  Please see the full README 
in that directory for more information. 3D File System Navigator fsn (
pronounced fusion) is a file system navigator in cyberspace.  It lays out 
the directories in a hierarchy with each directory represented by a 
pedestal.  The height of the pedestal is proportional to the size of the 
files in the directory.  The directories are connected by wires, on which it 
is possible to travel.  On top of each directory are boxes representing 
individual files.  The height of the box represents the size of the file, 
while the color represents the age.  It is possible to fly through the file 
system, examining details as needed.Fsn is intended as an investigation in 
information landscape navigation. Although the file system was chosen as a 
system to navigate through, similar paradigms could be applied to other 
trees and graphs, such as call graphs. Keep in mind that fsn is a 
prototype and an experiment.  It is neither a full featured product nor a 
replacement for a filesystem manager such as Workspace. Fsn requires Z-
buffering and RGB support.  You must be running IRIX release 4.0.1 or 
greater.  It is recommended that you have at least 16MB of memory, 
especially on an Indigo, where Z buffering uses a lot of memory.  On the 
Indigo, using split screen mode requires even more memory.  On the Indigo, 
only the double buffered color map is used, so the colors are not as pretty 
as on other machines.


Newsgroups: alt.cyberspace
From: uhe@cs.tu-berlin.de (Ulrich Hertlein)
Subject: Re: Cyberspace Dimensions
Organization: Technical University of Berlin, Germany
Date: Mon, 13 Apr 1992 10:10:37 GMT

In article <mortel.00b5@chose.cam.org>, mortel@chose.cam.org (Stephane Lussier) writes:
> 
>  What about ONE?  Two if you count time -- or one if you count that
>  cyberspace+time = cyberspace-time(!)
> 
>  We have to ask ourselves "what does a dimension measure?"
>  -My guess would be that it mesures infinities.
>  -Infinities? How many are they out there?
>  -"Out there?"  Who told you they where "out there"?
>   -- and why do I keep calling them "they"?
> 

 I'd go for just one - Time.  Someone once wrote (I can't remeber who it was) that
Reality consists of three dimensions because that's all it takes to reach any place on this planet (the entire universe actually).
 If you regard the Internet as some kind of Cyberspace, there are no dimensions like {x,y,z} because I can reach any point without physical movement, all it takes is the time for my input to get through to the host on the other side of the world.

 Of course, if you want to visualize Cyberspace you need to come up with a couple of artificial dimensions so the people who are using it don't fry their brains ...

cu,
ulli

PS: Coming to think of it, I no more than ~1 sec from Moscow and Lissbon; weird

--
Ulrich Hertlein                      | 
Tech. University of Berlin, Germany  |  "Your way, or my way, or the Highway."
uhe@cs.tu-berlin.de                  |                                  Sam Wo
From: warda@vax.oxford.ac.uk
Newsgroups: alt.cyberspace
Subject: Re: Fusion
Date: 16 Apr 92 16:40:45 GMT
Organization: Oxford University VAXcluster

In article <COLIN.92Apr15195138@wrangel.Cayman.COM>, colin@Cayman.COM (Colin "Atilla" Steele) writes:
> 
> I don't remember how to get it, or where, but I pulled it down after the
> original post, and it's pretty slick, but not real easy to use.  My
> fingers are more efficient, sadly :-(
> 
> The biggest problem was its control - the ole three button mouse doesn't
> cut it for three-d movement.
> 
> It was way wicked cool for about an hour, though.  We need a broader
> application domain for it to be a useful tool.  It's overkill for a filesystem
> browser/editor to be cyberspatial.  Or at least, that's what this app. felt
> like.  Maybe if it were easier to control, and quicker...
> --
It may well be overkill, but it sounds like so much fun that I'm sure a LOT of 
people would use it.  Speaking personally, I'd LOVE to be able to zip around 
the tree using the cursor keys.  I'm not a 3D vector graphics programmer, but
it seems to me that if basic wire-frame shapes were used, you could write
something fairly fast and small - e.g. the old MS-DOS version of the game
Starglider has excellent vector graphics and only a 70K executable, so it
can't soak up that much memory.  It runs fast and well on a 10MHz XT....  With
386 power and VGA graphics, I see no reason why a small, pretty, fast
cyberspatial file navigator (Norton, are you reading this?) couldn't be a
viable proposition. 
As for whether it's a "useful tool" or not, the success of something as 
trivial as After Dark points to the fact that a lot of people want fun 
graphics.

Bill Bennett

warda@uk.ac.oxford.vax
From: schradwh@cnsvax.uwec.edu
Newsgroups: alt.cyberspace
Subject: Cyberspace Query
Date: 8 Apr 92 11:38:53 -0600
Organization: University of Wisconsin Eau Claire

The bast way to ask this would be: I need help.
 
I'm looking for somone in this field who knows enough about it to tell me
everything they know. What are the uses of VR? What is the extent of our
abilites in this feild right now.

The reason for this, meager, query is for a research paper. Albeit, I have
magazine articles and other articels, I'm looking for a "professional" view,
not some reporters.

Please, if you feel you can help me, reply.

						The Prophet
From: colin@Cayman.COM (Colin "Atilla" Steele)
Newsgroups: alt.cyberspace
Subject: Re: Fusion
Date: 15 Apr 92 23:51:38 GMT
Organization: Cayman Systems Inc., Cambridge, MA
In-reply-to: 900377c@aucs.acadiau.ca's message of 15 Apr 92 00:29:19 GMT


I don't remember how to get it, or where, but I pulled it down after the
original post, and it's pretty slick, but not real easy to use.  My
fingers are more efficient, sadly :-(

The biggest problem was its control - the ole three button mouse doesn't
cut it for three-d movement.

It was way wicked cool for about an hour, though.  We need a broader
application domain for it to be a useful tool.  It's overkill for a filesystem
browser/editor to be cyberspatial.  Or at least, that's what this app. felt
like.  Maybe if it were easier to control, and quicker...
--


------------------------------------------------------------------------------
 Colin Steele     | Cayman Systems, 26 Landsdowne St., Cambridge, MA 02139
 colin@cayman.com | (617) 494-1916 x209 | applelink D0523 | Fax (617) 494-9270
From: sether@cae.wisc.edu (Steven Sether)
Newsgroups: alt.cyberspace
Subject: Re: Cyberspace Dimensions
Date: 6 Apr 92 15:31:06 GMT
Article-I.D.: doug.1992Apr6.103106.9833
Organization: College of Engineering, Univ. of Wisconsin-Madison

In article <watpod62.702569920@cunews> watpod62@alfred.carleton.ca (George Bragg) writes:
>I think cyberspace has, as dimensions, any number we care to give it.
>I mean, theoretically, we could travel forever in a straight line on
>cyberspace without coming back.  It may actually be pointless to talk
>about dimensions in cyberspace.  It simply is.  How far is it across a
>black hole?

The diameter would be 4GM/C^2.
 
-All I know is that I am not a marxist
--Karl Marx
From: rob@pharaoh.cyborg.bt.co.uk (drinking a pint)
Newsgroups: alt.cyberspace
Subject: Re: Cyberspace Dimensions
Date: 15 Apr 92 13:00:59 GMT
Organization: the end of the bar.

In article <92104.180344K317370@ALIJKU11.BITNET>, K317370@ALIJKU11.BITNET writes:
> We do seem to, in general, take the Gibsonian point of view
> in the cspace thing, and I feel that one peice of terminology
> from "Burning Chrome", the story, is highly relevent. The use
> of a "Matrix Simulator" in the same room as the people interfacing.
> That is, the representation of the space is defined by the user,
> possibly, even probably, in some nice natural 3D way, probably in
> a highly uniform way, since the unit would most often be a mass-
> produced Nintendo or something, but the essential idea is that we
> each get to define our own particular interpretation of the net.
> No standards whatsoever. Which is cool.
>
> There would probably be a whole pile of "standards", like a little
> file called "what my node looks like in 3D" that almost everyone
> would access, but I would not have to, I could decide that every
> "node" or whatever, could look like a white box, or a penis, or whatever
> I wanted.
>
> Choice, always lots of choice.



I know what you're trying to say and I thought it was common sense but
nevermind.

Anyway If you want a glimpse of user defined environments try looking at some
of the GUI's for personal computers (IBM-PC's Windows will do but the Amiga
500, 2000 etc. is better). Because these machines have no standard icons
(though defaults are available) then the imagination of the software
designers are used. In this case the SD's design new icons and pointers
(object descriptions) for whatever application they are intended for. In a
true Gibson like world, I believe that the same would happen. The user would
have it's own set of electronic eyes to view the world in and its own self
stylized image (icon) to represent themselves. The world would be described by
the system they interface. (Corporate, library, entertainment centre, etc.)
The days of machines powerful to generate its own world full of images are
quiet a way away.
-- 
So I'll hold my peace forever when you wear your bridal gown,
In the silence of my shame the mute that sang the sirens' 
song has gone solo in the game. I've gone solo in the game,
But the game is over.
From: chmilar@Apple.COM (Michael Chmilar)
Newsgroups: alt.cyberspace
Subject: Re: Cyberspace Query
Date: 9 Apr 92 17:05:45 GMT
Organization: Apple Computer Inc., Cupertino, CA

schradwh@cnsvax.uwec.edu writes:

>I'm looking for somone in this field who knows enough about it to tell me
>everything they know.

Huh?  What does this sentence say?

>What are the uses of VR? What is the extent of our abilites in this
>feild right now.

The state of existing, real VR technology is small.  Equipment consists of:

- Eyephone:  a massive, heavy piece of headgear.  It creates a stereo
  display by having a screen for each eye, on which images are displayed.
  The screen resolution is really crappy.
  One is also available that does not attach to the head, but is mounted
  on an articulated arm for support.
  Some devices of this type have head and eye tracking capability.
- Surround sound:  through headphones.  This is actually quite effective.
- Dataglove:  a glove that can track the movements of your hand and
  fingers.  Some have force feedback.
- Datesuit:  like the glove, but for the whole body.

Software:

- Pseudo realtime 3D graphics system.  These are not really any different
  from any other 3D graphics systems.  They render stereo images.  Preference
  is towards speed over quality (hence lots of jaggies).

Hypeware:

- Mondo 2000
- Jaron Lanier speaking at any conference.
- Any media article by so-called "journalists".
- Star Trek.
- Any commercial/artistic reference to VR.

Some productive uses of VR technology exist in aircraft wind tunnel simulation,
medical imaging, and flight simulation.  The goal of other "researchers" is
the recreation of William Gibson's novels and the creation of a giant
interactive version of Ms. PacMan.

Mike
Newsgroups: alt.cyberspace
From: sbuckley@fraser.sfu.ca (Stephen Buckley)
Subject: Re: Cyberspace Query
Organization: Simon Fraser University, Burnaby, B.C., Canada
Date: Thu, 9 Apr 1992 22:04:25 GMT

schradwh@cnsvax.uwec.edu writes:
> 
>I'm looking for somone in this field who knows enough about it to tell me
>everything they know. What are the uses of VR? What is the extent of our
>abilites in this feild right now.

  and hey, i'd like to see this info too.

  aren't we all just info-parasites?  :)


---
  Stephen Buckley        /   my opinions are not in the public domain.  they are
  sbuckley@sfu.ca       /  shareware.  if you agree with them, you are required 
TrueNorthStrong&Free   /   to send me $15 and a postcard of your hometown.  
   1-800-REALITY      /      further upgrades available to registered users.
Newsgroups: alt.cyberspace
From: watpod62@alfred.carleton.ca (George Bragg)
Subject: Re: Cyberspace Dimensions
Organization: Carleton University
Date: Tue, 7 Apr 1992 21:31:44 GMT

In <sbuckley.702625588@sfu.ca> sbuckley@fraser.sfu.ca (Stephen Buckley) writes:
>  perhaps a problem we encounter when thinking about this is that our notion
>of the word dimension perhaps assumes our 3-dimensional world.  since whenever
>i've thot about cyber-anything, the normal constraints of the 3D world remain
>outside the bounds of what i intuit would be reasonable.  further, since i 
>am *highly* unsure what dimesion i'm in when i'm thinking cyber-ly, i cannot
>come up with a replacement for my ole' trusty length/width/depth crutches.

I begin to wonder if cyberspace would not perhaps be a fractal space,
with a set distance across (your hard drive ! :-) but infinite
distance along the curve.  Calculus confuses me, so somebody help me
out here!
Newsgroups: alt.cyberspace
From: advax@reg.triumf.ca (A.Daviel)
Subject: Re: Cyberspace Dimensions
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41    
Organization: TRIUMF: Tri-University Meson Facility
Date: Tue, 7 Apr 1992 22:53:00 GMT

In article <1992Apr3.170539.7053@csus.edu>, arthurc@sfsuvax1.sfsu.edu (Arthur Chandler) writes...
> 
>   Here's a dilemma I've been mulling over, and hope someone out there
>can help me think through:
>   Does Cyberspace have dimensions? More specifically, if conventional
>space has length, width, and depth, with an added fourth dimension of
>time, what are the component dimensions of Cyberspace?
>   It seems that Cyberspace might have fractal dimension. Sitting in
>front of my terminal, I try to imagine just "where" I am: at your
>terminal? On the way through computer systems around the world? It must
>be more than the simple total of the lenth of all phone lines connecting
>the computers on Internet; but I can't think the matter through to the
>end.

So what do you mean by cyberspace? One can map the Internet into a 2D or 
3D drawing, and use a graphics terminal or Virtual Reality 3D headset to
move around in it, in which case the number of dimensions is just a question
of how you drew the map, or you can plug your brain into the net, as in 
the Neuromancer, etc. and perceive the net directly. Poul Anderson, in a book 
I forget the title of (but it might be Gateway), describes this kind of
interface. He describes a 'linker', or computerman, who was first introduced
to the brain interface as an adult or school-age kid, who presumeably 
interprets cyberspace in terms of the traditional 3D (4D) reality, and the
'holothete', who was introduced to the interface as an infant, and has a 
qualitatively different and more intense experience of the 'noumenon' - the
cyberspace reality, being able to use radiotelescopes, electron
microscopes, etc. as if they were her own senses, as well as make her 
perceptual self travel through the net. I would think that such an 
individual might perceive more
than the normal 3 dimensions, or maybe 'dimensions' is a meaningless concept 
here.
Without such an experiment, it is impossible to know whether we learnt about
3D space because we grew up in one, or whether the brain's perception is
inherently 3D. I suspect the former.

Andrew
From: 00bestrawser@bsu-ucs.uucp (Bryan Strawser)
Newsgroups: alt.cyberspace
Subject: More on Cyberspace Dimensions, and a crude heirarchy
Date: 15 Apr 92 15:29:35 GMT
Article-I.D.: bsu-ucs.1992Apr15.102935.6447

Here's an idea that I had on Cyberspace when doing some research in a
closely related field.

Lets say that Cyberspace is a universe.  A universe that is inifnity expanding
and growing.  Just like ours, if you believe the theories :)

IN order to enter Cyberspace, you must goto a portal.  This could be a terminal,
a computer, or some sort device that allows you to "enter" into the realm
of Cyberspace.

Your terminal, or whatever, is a "customs office", you plop down some sort
of ID, give a dossier, and you're there.  You don't even have to be yourself,
you could run around calling yourself Weirdo George or something, and most
likely you will be accepted, but perhaps frowned upon.

Your computer system, like the network here at BSU, is your world.  My world
exists of three Vax/VMS machines, a large unix machine, four vax/vms workstations,
and numerous other small machines and pc's.  This is my world, and it has
it's own little kings and queens, princes and princesses, police forces, and
so on.

Within my world, there are small cities, each with varying rules and regulations
about behavior, and their own little mayors.  These can be programs, or 
simply different machiens.  

Then there is the galaxys, the large nets.  

And of course, the universe over all of this.

Kind of awe-inspiring isn't it?
  
-- 
Bryan Strawser			   |	  		Ball State University
University Computing Services	   |			     Muncie, IN 47306
00bestrawser@leo.bsuvc.bsu.edu     |			 00bestrawser@bsuvax1
From: Ron.Katzir@f918.n103.z1.fidonet.org (Ron Katzir)
Newsgroups: alt.cyberspace
Subject: Re: Cyberspace Dimensions
Date: Wed, 08 Apr 92 06:43:25 PDT
Organization: FidoNet node 1:103/918 - Starbase 341 BBS, Irvine CA

*** Quoting message from Arthur Chandler to All,
  - Quoted message posted on: 03 Apr 92  09:05:39

AC>    Here's a dilemma I've been mulling over, and hope someone out
AC> there
AC> can help me think through:
AC>    Does Cyberspace have dimensions? More specifically, if
AC> conventional
AC> space has length, width, and depth, with an added fourth
AC> dimension of
AC> time, what are the component dimensions of Cyberspace?

     Well, Cyberspace has dimensions, however, it does not have a specific
amount of dimensions.  The "dimensional" affect would best be illustrated by
FidoNet's addressing scheme (however, it also exists with the InterNet in
general).  FidoNet's addressing scheme consists of four numbers: A zone
(usually a continent), a net (usually a county or a group of cities), a node
(identifying an individual system), and a point (identifying a user with a
mailer that can receive and send mail direct to FidoNet through the node with
the corresponding address but a "0" for the point only, and does not have to
call the system with a modem).  This scheme is often referred to, among Fido
patrons, as "the four dimensional addressing scheme," and, if you think about
it, you could equate them to dimensions...

     In other words, saying I'm visiting Alt.Cyberspace from my terminal here
at f918.n103.z1.fidonet.org would be about the same as saying I'm currently
"at" a discussion conference about Cyberspace...

     And time?  Time still exists.  It just doesn't run as smoothly.



--  

Ron Katzir
Internet: Ron.Katzir@f918.n103.z1.fidonet.org
Compuserve: >internet:Ron.Katzir@f918.n103.z1.fidonet.org
Newsgroups: alt.cyberspace
From: sbuckley@fraser.sfu.ca (Stephen Buckley)
Subject: Re: Cyberspace Dimensions
Organization: Simon Fraser University, Burnaby, B.C., Canada
Date: Thu, 9 Apr 1992 22:00:38 GMT

advax@reg.triumf.ca (A.Daviel) writes:
>    ...  it is impossible to know whether we learnt about
>3D space because we grew up in one, or whether the brain's perception is
>inherently 3D. I suspect the former.

>Andrew


  by default i always assumed the latter.  now that you mention it, it seems
more likely the former.


---
  Stephen Buckley        /   my opinions are not in the public domain.  they are
  sbuckley@sfu.ca       /  shareware.  if you agree with them, you are required 
TrueNorthStrong&Free   /   to send me $15 and a postcard of your hometown.  
   1-800-REALITY      /      further upgrades available to registered users.
From: chmilar@Apple.COM (Michael Chmilar)
Newsgroups: alt.cyberspace
Subject: Re: More on Cyberspace Dimensions, and a crude heirarchy
Date: 16 Apr 92 16:55:18 GMT
Organization: Apple Computer Inc., Cupertino, CA

00bestrawser@bsu-ucs.uucp (Bryan Strawser) writes:

>Your computer system, like the network here at BSU, is your world.  My world
>exists of three Vax/VMS machines, a large unix machine, four vax/vms workstations,
>and numerous other small machines and pc's.  This is my world, and it has
>it's own little kings and queens, princes and princesses, police forces, and
>so on.

>Within my world, there are small cities, each with varying rules and regulations
>about behavior, and their own little mayors.  These can be programs, or 
>simply different machiens.  

>Then there is the galaxys, the large nets.  

>And of course, the universe over all of this.

>Kind of awe-inspiring isn't it?
>-- 
>Bryan Strawser			   |	  		Ball State University


Go home.  Get some sleep.  Soon, it will all seem like just a bad dream.
Isn't it amazing how really stupid ideas seem great when you are really,
really tired?

Oh yeah - and stop watching Star Trek.

Mike
From: p2d@sci.kun.nl (Jeroen Huinink)
Newsgroups: alt.cyberspace
Subject: Re: More on Cyberspace Dimensions, and a crude heirarchy
Date: 16 Apr 92 13:19:17 GMT
Organization: University of Nijmegen, The Netherlands

In <1992Apr15.102935.6447@bsu-ucs.uucp> 00bestrawser@bsu-ucs.uucp (Bryan Strawser) writes:

>Here's an idea that I had on Cyberspace when doing some research in a
>closely related field.

[stuff deleted]

>This is my world, and it has it's own little kings and queens, princes 
>and princesses, police forces, and so on.

>Within my world, there are small cities, each with varying rules and regulations
>about behavior, and their own little mayors.  These can be programs, or 
>simply different machiens.  

[stuff deleted]

Did you read the series of power volume 2(the shadowrun books)
"Choose your enemies carefully"?
In that book something like that is described.

Jeroen Huinink

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Words and Music from da Lowlands" -- Gotcha
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Newsgroups: alt.cyberspace
From: ctdonath@rodan.syr.EDU (Carl T. Donath)
Subject: Re: Cyberspace Dimensions
In-reply-to: sether@cae.wisc.edu's message of 3 Apr 92 19:56:50 GMT
Organization: Syracuse University, Syracuse, NY
	<1992Apr3.135650.716@doug.cae.wisc.edu>
Date: Wed, 8 Apr 92 13:13:15 EDT

You're focusing on the _physical_ aspects of cyberspace (wires, monitor, etc).

Cyberspace is more a realm of ideas organized into software and presented
to our limited senses. Its dimensions are arbitrary - just as long as it
finally gets mapped onto one's rentas and/or eardrums (and hopefully other
senses soon). When we observe fractals, that fractional dimension object
is mapped onto a two-dimensional screen or page. Ditto with cyberspace.
It's just an image mapping problem - make as many dimensions as you want.
Fractional, even.
--
\-\-\ ctdonath@rodan.acs.syr.edu   Carl T Donath                          /-/-/
 -----------------------------------------------------------------------------
/-/-/ Information is the key to power and the key to prevent power abuse. \-\-\
Newsgroups: alt.cyberspace