HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: mgw2414@u.cc.utah.edu (Matthew Wimmer/ee)
Subject: death in dreams
Keywords: dreams
Organization: University of Utah Computer Center Student Mail Machine
Date: Sat, 21 Nov 92 01:03:22 GMT









I have died in a dream before, and like whoever it was said, I just
continued.  In my dream, I was bleeding to death and I said goodbye to
someone, I don't remember who, and then I flew a long ways away to a
field.  My family was all standing around, and my house was nearby, and I
turned into a ghost and started haunting it.  I also had a dream once
where I died because a wolf ate me and I just started breathing slower and
became aware that I was lying in bed, and woke up with a start.
Newsgroups: alt.dreams
From: vlee@vis.toronto.edu (Victor Yuencheng Lee)
Subject: Re: Getting enough sleep
Organization: Department of Computer Science, University of Toronto
Date: 17 Nov 92 01:26:56 GMT

Cathy Ridings <U3E67@wvnvm.wvnet.edu> writes:

... Blablabla <Deleted> ...
>Cathy
>*******************************************************************************
>Tonight you're a star, and I'm the big dipper..........Prince

Hi, Cathy:

What is "the big dipper"?
Sorry if it is too trivial.

--Victor
Newsgroups: alt.dreams
Newsgroups: alt.dreams
Subject: Metaphysical Dreams
From: comjohn@ccu1.aukuni.ac.nz (Mr. John T Jensen)
Date: Tue, 17 Nov 1992 03:03:50 GMT
Organization: University of Auckland, New Zealand.

I wonder if anyone has had a dream which had religious significance, seemed,
perhaps, to tell them something about the world and their relation to it,
seemed to come from God?

I have.

jj

John Thayer Jensen                      64 9 373 7599 ext. 7543
Commerce Computer Services              64 9 373 7437 (FAX)
Auckland University                     jt.jensen@aukuni.ac.nz
Private Bag 92019
AUCKLAND
New Zealand
Newsgroups: alt.dreams
From: Tarzan
Subject: Re: Scary experiences (was: My Lucid Experiences)
Organization: Bell-Northern Research
Date: Mon, 23 Nov 1992 21:39:45 GMT

In article <1992Nov19.145749.11797@mr.med.ge.com> bartlone@zeke.gemedical (Mike
Bartolone 5-4266) writes:
>About 8 years ago I had one of the most terrifying experiences of my life. I
was
>ta.......................... my eyes open (which I have done for
>years, so she got an ice cube, and let it drip on my face...this did finally
>bring me out of it...
>I hope I never get `stuck` like that again!!
>
>---
>bartlone@last.med.ge.com | 'Think tree...
>In your mind, make picture..now open eyes..
>make like picture...' paraphrased from
>                    'The Karate Kid'
>
>
>

Next time try just moving your finger.  This usually gets things ligned up
right. 											Tarzan
Newsgroups: alt.dreams
Subject: Re: qty of sleep/mild depression
From: Stafford@Vax2.Winona.MSUS.EDU (John Stafford)
Date: 17 Nov 92 12:52:20 -0600
Followup-To: alt.dreams
Distribution: world
Organization: MSUS

In article <1992Nov17.164814.907@crd.ge.com>, ebstokes@maxwell.crd.ge.com
(Ed Stokes) wrote:
> 
> I have found that I become mildly depressed if
> I get "too much" sleep. For me, "too much" seems to be anything
> over an average of seven hours per night. If I get into a
> cycle of sleeping eight or more hours per night, then I
> find that all I want to do is sleep.

An interesting effect of the anti-depressent drug Immipramine
is that it surpresses some REM sleep.  You might be right.
From: djts@dcs.ed.ac.uk (David Sumpter)
Newsgroups: alt.dreams
Subject: Re: Dying in dreams
Date: 23 Nov 92 18:14:42 GMT
Organization: Department of Computer Science, University of Edinburgh

I died in a dream and I'm fine.
I'm sure I died, cause I saw my funeral and the dream continued without me in it.
Organization: Penn State University
Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1992 11:28:15 EST
From: The Dreamer <ASG102@psuvm.psu.edu>
Newsgroups: alt.dreams
Subject: Dream Exp.'92...What I have learned

You guys seem to be well on your way to starting this experiment, but you
are still looking for a place to meet.  Well, here are the pro's and con's
of the past meeting places:
                                    Pro's             Con's
Bouncing Banana Phone Booth        mobile         hard to visualize
                                                  small meeting place

Dream Express                      mobile
                            easier to visualize

Grand Hall of Dreamers      large building with       stationary
                            some, but not too much
                            description


I think that the optimal place would be mobile, large, easy to visualize, and
have enough description (or be rare enough) that you would know that you got
to the right place, but not too much description where you could say "This
doesn't look exactly like it should...this must not be it".

I propose that we meet on a luxury cruise ship (like the Love Boat)...we
could call it the Dream Boat :-).  We could leave our personal items on the
top deck for others to see...perhaps by the swimming pool?

     Feedback?

     Love and Peace and Dream Boats,
              -The Dreamer-
Newsgroups: alt.dreams
From: dwjurkat@rodan.acs.syr.edu (Jurkat)
Subject: Re: I SEE LIGHTS...
Organization: Syracuse University, Syracuse, NY
Date: Thu, 19 Nov 92 15:36:58 EST

In article <1eao0oINNmss@clover.csv.warwick.ac.uk> cstadbg@csv.warwick.ac.uk (Mr M J Brown) writes:
>In article <1992Nov6.215120.6792@m.cs.uiuc.edu> mcgrath@cs.uiuc.edu writes:
>>In article <1992Nov5.183358.18050@gnosys.svle.ma.us>, gst@gnosys.svle.ma.us (Gary S. Trujillo) writes:
>>|> In <002369c.39.720913401@ace.acadiau.ca> 002369c@ace.acadiau.ca
>>|> 	(WILLIAM FREDERICK CUSTANCE) writes:
>>|> 
>>|> > Have you ever had the experience of closeing your eyes at night or whenever 
>>|> > you go to sleep and see patterns form?
>>|> 
>>|> Yes.  The experience is called "hypnagogia."  There's a good book on the
>>|> subject by Andreas Mavromatis called simply _Hypnagogia: the Unique State
>>|> of Consciousness Between Wakefulness and Sleep_ (Routledge & Kegan Paul,
>>|> London & New York, paperback edition published 1991, ISBN 0-415-05794-9).
>>|> 
>
>As an alternative to this, who has had the experience of closing their eyes and
>being able to *see* (not "mind's eye, I mean a visible picture) a sometimes
>stationary, often moving, image. This has happened a few times to me, I never
>recognize the location or the people, and there is no accompanying sound. This
>happens while I am wide awake, it is not the onset of dreaming.....Any ideas?
>
>The picture is usually a small circular area within the "black" that you normally
>see when you shut your eyes. What is this called, if it is not a form of
>hypnagogia.

What also works well is looking at a map for a few minutes.  Then when you
shut your eyes you can still see it, do zooms, and make it change.  However
it is never accurate even though when doing you tend to think it is. :)
From: s_titz@ira.uka.de (Olaf Titz)
Newsgroups: alt.dreams
Subject: Re: alt.dreams in my head
Date: 16 Nov 1992 16:11:39 GMT
Organization: Fachschaft math/inf, Uni Karlsruhe, FRG
NNTP-Posting-Host: irau29.ira.uka.de

In article <1e750hINN2sf@usenet.INS.CWRU.Edu> ak044@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Jeremy Borger) writes:
>In a previous article, s_titz@ira.uka.de (Olaf Titz) says:
>...
>>A proof of evidence that knowing and active thinking of lucid dreams
>>helps in actually getting lucid dreams.
>Really? I began to think just the opposite. The first times that I had lucid
>dreams was when I knew nothing about them and really didn't know what to 
>think. I haven't been able to lucidly dream lately (lucid block). 

Correcting myself: ...of lucid dreams *can help* in actually
getting...

Your mileage may vary. The feedback interaction between dreams and
your thoughts about them can go in different directions.

>I did try last night to just kinda "float" gradually into a lucid state. I
>thought about a place and created other characters and stuff and hoped that
>the more tired I became, my thoughts would change into dreams.

This never works when done once or twice; it has to be done *each
night*. Seems to be a training issue.

>If it worked, I can't remember.

I have the suspicion that we all forget so much of our dreams that we
can tell only a tiny fraction of what really happens. From my personal
experience (again, YMMV) in trying to remember dreams, I would argue
that it did indeed work, but you forgot it.

Warning: Following extremely off-topic material :-)
>--
>Why doesn't DOS ever say 'EXCELLENT command or filename'?

Because there are no such things in DOS.

olaf
-- 
| Olaf Titz - comp.sc.student  |   o     | uknf@dkauni2.bitnet | old address |
| univ. of karlsruhe - germany |  _>\ _  | s_titz@ira.uka.de   | is still    |
| +49-721-60439                | (_)<(_) | praetorius@irc      | valid       |
   "Stop talkin' and start chalkin'!" - Eight Ball Deluxe
Newsgroups: alt.dreams
From: rdnelson@phoenix.Princeton.EDU (Roger D. Nelson)
Subject: Re: Celia Green and the Institute for Psychophysical Research
Originator: news@nimaster
Organization: Princeton University
Date: Tue, 17 Nov 1992 17:35:09 GMT

In article <168A26AC0.JHARTLEY@cmsa.gmr.com> JHARTLEY@cmsa.gmr.com writes:
>In article <1992Nov17.044008.27529@mnemosyne.cs.du.edu>
>mporter@nyx.cs.du.edu (Mitchell Porter) writes:
>
>>Is anyone on the Internet familiar with the work of Celia Green and/or the
>>Institute for Psychophysical Research (IPR) of which she is the Director?

>Are you sure this is not the institute for PARApsychological Research?
>The titles and your description of her "work" suggest that she knows
>little if anything about the area of psychology called "psychophysics".
>May I recommend that you also post this to sci.skeptic, if you haven't
>already.  I'm sure someone there, perhaps even Martin Gardner, could
>clarify this person's approach.

Unfortunately I cannot give information on Celia Green or the IPR, but
would like to comment on the terminology issue.  Psychophysics is a name
used little today in psychology except in historical reference, and an
intro text will tell you it refers to the relationship of sensory and
perceptual measures to physical parameters or some such.  Meanwhile, the
term in the original post (and in IPR's name) is a different word:
Psychophysical, where the physical refers more often than not to the
body or some macroscopic system, not to physics as in radiated energies
like light, heat, sound, etc.  The Psycho part is also not necessarily
the same as the same letters in psychology (even parapsychology), and
may refer to Mind or Spirit (oh my) rather than to the rather simple
constructs addressed by Fechner and Stevens and others establishing the
basic equations of human information acquisition.

It is a good idea to post the original query to sci.skeptic.  I
seriously doubt Martin Gardner reads or posts there, but there are
several people with breadth of knowledge who do.  One should be prepared,
however, for aggressive comments.

Roger



Newsgroups: alt.dreams
From: joi@cbnewsc.cb.att.com (JMM)
Subject: Re: Dying in dreams
Organization: AT&T, Denver, CO
Distribution: na
Date: Mon, 23 Nov 1992 06:05:39 GMT

In article <92324.103305C09615DK@wuvmd.wustl.edu> C09615DK@wuvmd.wustl.edu writes:
>>
>>In article <722102872.6101@minster.york.ac.uk>, ae-a@minster.york.ac.uk says:
>>
>>   I have heard somewhere that if you die in your dream, you
>>die in real life. What usually happens to me if I am about
>>to die or hurt myself is that I just wake up. Is this
>>just the result of my heart speeding up or is it an early-
>>warning system in my brain terminating my dream so that I
>>don't convince myself that I'm dead.
>>
>[.sig deleted]
>
>I believed this for the longest time, too. Actually, I just believed that it
>was impossible to die in your dreams (perhaps the mental trauma of waking up to
>find yourself alive was too much, I don't know why I believed this), but this
>year I asked my Psychology professor about it and he said that it IS possible
>to die in one's dreams.
>
>Go figure. (I still think he's wrong, though)--Dan K

Well, since I've died in my dreams at least twice and am here to tell you
about it, I think he's right.  If you really think about it, how could
anyone tell you definitively that if you die in your dream you'll die in
real life?  Obviously, if that were true the dead person couldn't tell you,
and that would leave the cause of death to be mere speculation.

Now, if someone with a very bad heart condition died in his/her dream,
perhaps the shock would cause actual death.

In my case, I died, and woke with the realization that by gosh, I'm still
alive.  Another time I died in my dream and *in the dream* passed into 
another existence.  

	Joy Metcalf
From: s_titz@ira.uka.de (Olaf Titz)
Newsgroups: alt.dreams
Subject: Re: Dead in a Dream Ditch
Date: 23 Nov 1992 19:10:24 GMT
Organization: Fachschaft math/inf, Uni Karlsruhe, FRG
NNTP-Posting-Host: irau28.ira.uka.de

In article <gj156879.722283943@cunews> gj156879@alfred.carleton.ca ( gj student 156879) writes:
>From what I've heard, though I've never experienced death in a dream,
>it is possible to die in a dream and continue dreaming.  That is, and
>not wake up.

I think basically everything is possible in dreams - you can talk to
G*d or the Dev*l (and not worry about it afterwards), you can split
yourself into n persons, n>1 :-) etc. etc.

>The closest I've come to a death dream is being lucid, walking around,
>and a small child with a knife jumped out and threatened me with his
>blade.  I laughed, knowing I was lucid, thinking that the blade
>wouldn't hurt if he did manage to stab me.  Well, he stabbed me and it
>DID hurt.  Go figure.  I was annoyed as all hell about that one.
> 
>Anyone else experience pain in a dream like this?

Well, I've sometimes dreamed about dying, and I'm not only still
alive, but I've never taken this different from laughing at it. (I've
always *known* that I was dreaming in that experiences, though it has
happened before I've got the whole notion about lucidity. Sometimes,
**in my dreams**, I've considered some means of suicide for the
purpose of waking up - a bit drastic but it didn't work anyway, and
I've abandoned the practice ;-)

I can't remember a realistic pain, though.

The only dream I remember in which I was *scared* about death in a
dream was about a nuclear power plant exploding, but this was not
really a horror dream though. The real horror dreams are not about
something physically describable (and fortunately rare - but this is a
question of attitude too, I'm repeating ad nauseam :-)

olaf
-- 
| Olaf Titz - comp.sc.student  |   o     | uknf@dkauni2.bitnet | old address |
| univ. of karlsruhe - germany |  _>\ _  | s_titz@ira.uka.de   | is still    |
| +49-721-60439                | (_)<(_) | praetorius@irc      | valid       |
   "Stop talkin' and start chalkin'!" - Eight Ball Deluxe
Newsgroups: alt.dreams
From: preiser@cancer.unm.edu (Doug Preiser)
Subject: Re: LUCID DREAMS
Date: Thu, 19 Nov 92 23:48:48 GMT
Organization: UNM Cancer Center
Reply-To: preiser@cancer.unm.edu

In article <kwi.34@postman.hsn.no>, kwi@postman.hsn.no (KLAUS WILLIAM WIK) writes:
>	Lucid dreams?
>Is that when you dream but are aware that you are sleeping and dreaming?

That's what it is.

>If not , what is it then?

   Internet: preiser@cancer.unm.edu
   Bitnet:   preiser@unmb
Newsgroups: alt.dreams
From: csmcm@ux1.cts.eiu.edu (Mary C. McDaniel)
Subject: A Place Between Regular and Lucid Dreams?
Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1992 20:10:30 GMT
Organization: Eastern Illinois University

I do have lucid dreams.  However, of late I've noticed some other
dream species, one in which, when I'm confronted by a threatening
person or situation, I behave exactly as I've told myself I ought
to if such a situation occurred to me in the waking world, yet there
is no actual lucidity involved.  For instance, in the real world,
I have an odd fear of being in some precarious place (a cliff, a bridge)
with my small daughter; I'm afraid of heights, and I'm concerned about
my ability to "save" her.  I try to deal with this fear by planning
exactly what I would do if such a situation actually did occur.
What I find more and more is that such preparation carries over
into my dreams: I recently had a dream in which my daughter and
I were hanging onto a large pipe which stretched across a deep
ravine; to "save" her, I had her hang onto my legs while I swung
them toward a cliff a half dozen feet away, and indeed, she eventually
landed on the ground.  (Me?  Last I recall, I was still hanging there (-:.)

At any rate, in such dreams there is never a moment at which I say 
"I'm dreaming, and in a dream, I'm in charge of the situation and can
make it come out any way I choose"; and yet, I behave as if this has
occurred.  My question is, thus, how should such dreams be classified?
They certainly don't involve solving problems in the super-human ways
that lucid dreamers often do-- instead, the solutions are very practical,
very humanly attainable.  And yet, again, I am (mostly!) in control
of these dreams, a luxury that I thought was reserved for lucid dreams.
(Indeed, the way I learned to lucid dream, about 25 years ago, was
to repeat-- when I had a scary dream-- "this is only a dream" to the
point that the _next_ time such a dream occurred, I knew I was dreaming,
was in control, had nothing to fear.)

Is my interpretation of lucid dreaming wrong, or could there be
other categories of dreams?  At least varying degrees of lucidity?

I'm listening.

-- Mary
From: oldman@coos.dartmouth.edu (Prakash Das)
Newsgroups: alt.dreams
Subject: Earthquake and Tidal Waves dream
Date: 23 Nov 92 04:12:41 GMT
Organization: Dartmouth College, Hanover, NH

I had the following dream which I had never had before. According
to one of the dream books that I read, this is a *very* rare dream.
Also, I have never really had difficulty lucid dreaming, I only
have difficulty *sustaining* it. One of the reasons for this might
be that I want to have dreams that run their own course, and not be
directed by me. I can very easily slip in and out of lucid dreams,
(in fact many a time, I "try hard" to stay out of my dream, but
most of the time I do not succeed in this, and I slip into lucidity,
which results in me getting "bored" and I end the dream). Consequently,
I long for uninterrupted "natural" dreams, that is, dreams that run 
their natural course. In the following dream, I slipped into lucidity,
and so the dream terminated. I very much wonder what more was there to
be dreamed if I hadn't terminated it. The dream ran thus:

 I am aware that someone has made a prediction. But I don't know
who that is, nor when that was made. I am only aware of myself,
and the "happening". The prediction is for a big earthquake to occur
at *exactly* (mark the word exactly) at 12 midnight. I am now aware
of a clock counting down the minutes to 12 midnight. At *exactly*
the stroke of midnight, a massive earthquake occurs. The earthquake 
is in the form of a massive quasi-explosion. (The reason I say
"quasi" is because there is no sound whatsoever during this dream. I
only see it happen, I don't hear anything). Immediately thereafter,
I see tidal waves emanating from the epicenter. The way I see these
massive waves is from far above them. As a result, these waves only
look like ripples in a calm river to me. Like a satellite looking down
at earth, I am looking at all this from far up. The waves keep 
expanding outwards, at which point (this is where my lucidity 
takes over), I start feeling gravely concerned for the folks 
down below. As a result of this concern, I start lucid dreaming and
start controlling the rate of expansion of the waves. However, being
unable to totally stop them from flowing outwards, I wake up, and the
dream is over.

It would be interesting if any of you readers cared to comment on
any of the above. That's all for now, folks!

-PD
Newsgroups: alt.dreams
From: sinjyn@leland.Stanford.EDU (Fred Sunghoon Chee)
Subject: Re: This type of dream...
Organization: DSG, Stanford University, CA 94305, USA
Date: Sun, 22 Nov 92 07:35:30 GMT


Newsgroups: alt.dreams
From: angelai@wam.umd.edu (Angela I.)
Subject: Re: New Age Music to Induce Lucidity?
Organization: University of Maryland, College Park
Date: Sat, 21 Nov 1992 01:01:45 GMT

In article <27728@oasys.dt.navy.mil> wpalmer@oasys.dt.navy.mil (William Palmer) writes:
>
>Does anyone know a good text on vibrational effects on the body? Can
>the author of this post be more specific about "vibrations [affecting]
>different parts of your body"?
>

It's been awhile since I read this stuff, but it kinda reminds me of
the Monroe Institute's Hemi-Sync tapes.  They are audio tapes that
you are supposed to listen to through a headset (Walkman's work
fine) so that you'll get specific tones in each ear, and they
resonate within the brain to cause a standing wave or something
that brings your left & right hemispheres into synchronization...
I don't remember exactly, but they supposedly help some people 
achieve the "relaxed and alert" state that is necessary for inducing
OBEs... I have a Hemi-Sync tape and it's neat, but I find that just
counting backwards does the trick for me a little bit better...
I get kinda distracted by the music after I'm in a kinda deep mental
state, you know, and then I end up drifting off to sleep with the
music (... though it really does wake you up at the end of it, which
is a weird sensation, because it's not from the loudness but just from
the tones or whatever...)

Also, it is my experience that anything that is kind of emotion-evoking,
or sort of "feels magical" will initiate that state of mind -- like
it awakens that aspect of your consciousness or something...

Well, this isn't exactly related, but it sort of is, I guess.  :)

Angela
From: drp40@cd.amdahl.com (Doug Puchalski)
Newsgroups: alt.dreams
Subject: Re: Dying in dreams
Date: 20 Nov 92 07:20:20 GMT
Reply-To: drp40@cd.amdahl.com
Organization: Amdahl Corporation, Sunnyvale, CA

In article <92324.103305C09615DK@wuvmd.wustl.edu>, C09615DK@wuvmd.wustl.edu writes:

>I believed this for the longest time, too. Actually, I just believed that it
>was impossible to die in your dreams (perhaps the mental trauma of waking up to
>find yourself alive was too much, I don't know why I believed this), but this
>year I asked my Psychology professor about it and he said that it IS possible
>to die in one's dreams.
>
>Go figure. (I still think he's wrong, though)--Dan K

I think I have a simple explanation for this.  Those of us who have become
lucid know that if you attempt things that are too outragous, your mind won't
let you do it--you'll fail or wake up.  You have to become very comfortable
with things, perhaps step by step, before your mind will accept things that
are very new to it.  I think death is something that few minds are willing to
accept, since we don't really understand much about it.  So your dream goes as
planned, until you realize you're faced with death--your mind defensively shuts
the dream off and you wake up.

In your mind, *anything* is possible.  You'll have to decide what happens to
you after you die so that your dream may continue.  This old wive's tale is
just that--since most people have never died in their dreams, it provides for
an mysterious little story.

An interesting side note:  I'm a skydiver.  I often think about dying in the
sport.  When you're falling, you're going 110mph.  Relative to others in the
air, however, you're not moving very fast at all.  I've had dreams about 
people going in, but they always hit the ground at the slow rate that I've 
seen others falling relative to me.  My mind just *cannot* imagine what it 
looks like to see a human body hit the ground that fast!  My mind just fills
in the best it can!

-- 
Doug Puchalski       You have the right to your opinion, even though it's wrong
drp40@cd.amdahl.com	        My opinions are my own, and are fact, of course
dpuchals@engin.umich.edu                                   Death to all smileys