HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: smlacke@isrc.sandia.gov (Scott M Lackey)
Subject: Re: Some Real Physics (Was: Re: Of Egg Yolks and Astrology)
Organization: Sandia National Labs, Org. 1600, Albq., NM
Date: Wed, 30 Sep 1992 23:35:46 GMT

From article <30SEP199211494188@csa1.lbl.gov>, by sichase@csa1.lbl.gov (SCOTT I CHASE):
>>  [.....]
>>Yes, we can be sure-- when the gravitational pull of the doctor/midwife
>>who delivered you is greatly exceeds the total gravitational pull of the
>>other planets.
> 
> Come on. This is just not true.  Have any of you gugs who believe this
> actually tried to work out the numbers?   Geez.
> 
> Sun vs. Doctor:
> 
> Doctor:  100 Kg at 2 feet from the baby.
> Sun:     2E30 Kg at 9.3E7 miles from the baby.
> 
> The gravitiational force, G, of the Sun is down by a factor of 
> ratio of distances squared = ((9.3E7*5280)/2)^2 = 6E22.  That's a big
> loss due to distance.  On the other hand, G for the sun is larger due
> to it's HUGE mass by a factor of the ratio of the masses = (2E30/100) = 2E28.
> So the bottom line is that the Sun has a pull more than 300,000 times the
> pull of the doctor.  
> 
     [.......]
> 
> What's the lesson to be learned here?  I see two:
> 
> (1) All you folks who call yourselves skeptics and then swallow some supposed
> "scientific" truths without checking simple things for yourselves are 
> just as bad as the astrologers.
> 
> (2) Gravitation is so weak that the only significant sources of gravity are
> the few huge objects in our solar neighborhood.  Small objects (doctors, 
> skeptics, astrologers, etc.) are negligible, even at close range.
> 
> -Scott
> --------------------
> Scott I. Chase			"The question seems to be of such a character

	Not to speak for other skeptics, but I think this argument is useful.
First of all, you do not "feel" gravitational force.  Space Shuttle
astronauts experience Earth's gravity nearly as strong as what we
experience here on Earth, but as you can see from those cool space
videos, they "feel" nothing.  What they would "feel" is tidal forces.
These are not proportional to 1/(d^2), but to 1/(d^4) I believe.
If someone knows the correct factor please let me know.
	The point is that unless Einstein was way off base, a constant
gravitational field can't do much.  The tidal "force" is a gradient
in the field and can effect things. (tides etc...)  
	Besides, Astrologers talk about planets effecting stuff. I don't
think the calculations will support astrologers when comparing tidal
forces exerted to planets to tidal forces exerted by nearby mountains,
etc...

Scott Lackey
From: carl@SOL1.GPS.CALTECH.EDU (Carl J Lydick)
Newsgroups: sci.skeptic
Subject: Re: Soul
Date: 27 Sep 92 16:13:50 GMT
Reply-To: carl@SOL1.GPS.CALTECH.EDU
Organization: HST Wide Field/Planetary Camera
NNTP-Posting-Host: sol1.gps.caltech.edu

In article <1992Sep21.163911.24968@hfsi.uucp>, ata@hfsi.uucp (John Ata - FSO) writes:
>>As for the difference, you say "it must be something unseen, because I cannot
>>imagine how it could happen without one".  I do not speak likewise; proof by
>>incredulity is not a proof.  This is the difference.
>
>Correct me if I'm wrong, but aren't you saying that if its
>unobservable, I cannot imagine how it could exist? 

As best I can tell, you're wrong.  He appears to be saying "If it's
unobservable, then I can't imagine how whether or not exist could make any
observable difference."
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Carl J Lydick | INTERnet: CARL@SOL1.GPS.CALTECH.EDU | NSI/HEPnet: SOL1::CARL

Disclaimer:  Hey, I understand VAXen and VMS.  That's what I get paid for.  My
understanding of astronomy is purely at the amateur level (or below).  So
unless what I'm saying is directly related to VAX/VMS, don't hold me or my
organization responsible for it.  If it IS related to VAX/VMS, you can try to
hold me responsible for it, but my organization had nothing to do with it.
From: warren@nysernet.org (Warren Burstein)
Subject: Re: KOSHER? In a Pig's Eye!
Reply-To: warren@nysernet.org
Organization: Mail to News Gateway at Wang Labs
Date: 25 Sep 92 09:47:56 GMT
Keywords: kosher pizza cheeseburger occultation

In <1992Sep24.192155.16491@srg.srg.af.mil> dpipes@spica.srg (Dave Pipes x4552) writes:

>I do not believe that the host is being rude by enforcing certain rules
>concerning his property in his house.  Rather, the guest is rude by 
>knowingly violating them.  Added deprecation of the rules is insulting;

I don't think the guest knowingly violated the rules, although the
host could have prevented the problem in the first place by some
explanations, and reacted in a calmer way.  But yes, the added
deprecation is uncalled for.
-- 
/|/-\/-\       I'll leave you with this saying:
 |__/__/_/     I've read SEVEN MILLION books!!
 |warren@      
/ nysernet.org
From: Rick.Moen@f207.n914.z8.rbbs-net.ORG (Rick Moen)
Newsgroups: sci.skeptic
Subject: 14
Date: 3 Oct 92 23:42:24 GMT

In article <GERRY.92Oct1111456@onion.cmu.edu>, gerry@cmu.edu
(Gerry Roston) spaketh:

> But to the point.  Whenever somebody distinguishes themself from
> another portion of humanity, by claiming religious or racial
> differences, this is a subtle way of saying, "Hey, I'm better than
> you."  Some even take this further and say, "Hey, your not human."
> Eg. Hitler and friends, the Spanish Inquisition, etc.  When I see a
> rabid christian calling jews a race, I see visions of the next
> holocaust.  When I see blacks being called a race, I see vision of
> South Africa.  We must all strive to fight against predjudice and
> bigotry at all turns.

Hey, Gerry, bubeleh!  I'm personally guilty of being blond and
fair-skinned, as well as agnostic.  I therefore stand ready to be
flamed, chastised, and rode out of town on a rail for this egregious act
of claiming both a religious AND a racial difference -- showing blatant
prejudice and bigotry in so doing.  Please fire away:  I'm desparately
in need of correction through application of verbal abuse, and wish to
be shown the Path of Righteousness.
 
Cheers,
Rick M.

 * Origin: The Skeptic's Board in San Mateo - Bay Area Skeptics (8:914/207)
From: David.Rice@ofa123.fidonet.org
Newsgroups: sci.skeptic
Subject: SCI.SKEPTIC FAQ
X-Sender: newtout 0.02 Sep 21 1992
Date: 26 Sep 92  17:19:42

Tag: Paul Johnson (paj@uk.co.gec-mrc (Paul Johnson))
 
PJ> "Archive-name: skeptic-faq
PJ> Last-modified: 92/09/17
PJ> Version: @(#)skeptic-faq.text 1.2
PJ> The Frequently Questioned Answers
PJ> =================================
 
[stuff]
 
PJ> "Other Topics
PJ> ============
PJ> I would like to have some info on Astrology (especially the
PJ> Gaucalin 'Mars Effect') and Velikovsky. Submissions on these
PJ> matters are invited."
 
I will work on the astrology portion of the FAQ, having been an
astrologer for over a dozen years. I will provide Gauquelin's
methodology on the "Mars Effect." However, my "Mars Effect" article
is 190 lines long, and if I wrote an astrology FAQ it could very
well be another 200 lines. Are you willing to add 400 lines to
the SCI.SKEPTIC FAQ? If so, I will happily send this to you.
 
As for Velikovsky, OH PLEASE! He even makes astrologers sound
like rocket scientists! James Merrit on talk.origins has completely
refuted a great many of Velikovsky's assertions. I could send that
to you as well.
 
PJ> "Please mail submissions and comments to <paj@gec-mrc.co.uk>.
PJ> If that bounces, try <paj%uk.co.gec-mrc@ukc.ac.uk>, which
PJ> explicitly routes your email via the UK backbone."
PJ> mail to <prediction_registry@sol1.gps.caltech.edu>.
PJ> (paj@gec-mrc.co.uk). | Tel: +44 245 73331 ext 3245

--- Maximus 2.00
From: swf@teradata.com (Stanley Friesen)
Newsgroups: sci.skeptic
Subject: Re: Scud rockets hit Israel
Date: 30 Sep 92 18:13:06 GMT
Reply-To: swf@tdat.teradata.com (Stanley Friesen)
Organization: NCR Teradata Database Business Unit

In article <1992Sep29.122245.1552@lin.foa.se> eriks@lin.foa.se (Erik Svensson FOA2) writes:
|snggab01@uctvax.uct.ac.za writes:
|
|Ok, I'll repeat myself :->
|Almost all of the population were in shelters. The purpose of said shelters 
|being to protect the lives of those inside, it's no surprise that few died.
|The scud is a primitive missile with horrible accuracy ( it's pretty much a
|re-vamped V-2 missile). When used as it was during desert storm (i.e. fired
|without the rather lengthy preparation needed) you can be reasonably sure of
|hitting a middle-sized city.
|
Well, considering how often they missed land altogether, I wouldn't be
too sure of that.  (Yeah, that's right a fair nimber of the suckers
were 'lost at sea' - overshot the target completely).
-- 
sarima@teradata.com			(formerly tdatirv!sarima)
  or
Stanley.Friesen@ElSegundoCA.ncr.com
From: kjm@buc.edu.au (Kevin Moore)
Newsgroups: sci.skeptic
Subject: Re: UN-WISE QUOTES
Date: 2 Oct 92 04:54:40 GMT
Organization: Physics Department - Ballarat University College
NNTP-Posting-Host: 141.132.16.8

In article <BvEEEE.1rK@fc.hp.com> rjn@FC.HP.COM (Bob Niland) writes:

>When the majority of seat-holders on the NYSE are picking stocks by the
>stars, I'll start paying attention :-)

So THAT's why the world economy is in such a mess! ;-)

******************************************************************************
The reason is that the program was written in  	*	Kevin Moore
BASIC, a sort of computer baby-talk.            *     kjm@buc.edu.au
                              Richard Dawkins	*
******************************************************************************
From: eradm@brahms.Berkeley.EDU (Erik Radmall)
Newsgroups: sci.skeptic
Subject: Re: Out-of-body near-death experiences + past lives
Date: 30 Sep 92 12:51:21 GMT
Reply-To: eradm@brahms.Berkeley.EDU (Erik Radmall)
Distribution: sci.skeptic
Organization: Xerox

In article <1992Sep29.011831.19460@eve.wright.edu>, cse3006@eve.wright.edu (MICHAEL KOTLER) writes:
|> In article <Bv47pr.A3J@knot.ccs.queensu.ca> linley@qucis.queensu.ca (Richard Linley) writes:
|> 
|> In a somewhat related subject, Professor Ian Stevenson, formerly Head of
|> the Psychiatry Dept. at the University of Virginia, has spent over 30
|> years seriously investigating children between the ages of 2 and 4 years
|> old who remember previous lives that in most cases can be verified.  In

What, precisely, does _verified_ mean in this context?
(no flames, please - this is an honest question, not a challenge)

|> several of these cases, the children recall experiences similar to the
|> NDE and OBE upon death of their previous life.  This unusual and rare
|> phenomenon of children remembering previous lives has been observed by
|> Stevenson in seven different cultures.  He has published 7 books on
|> this subject by the U. of Virginia press.  Many of his articles have
|> been published in refereed medical journals.
|> 
|> Mike
|> Wright State University
|> Dayton, Ohio

Admittedly, there are similarities between accounts of NDEs from different cultures
that I am aware of. For example, people seeing Christ or Buddha. But that would seem to
be more telling of the human psyche than anything else.

On a related note - The other day, I heard a statistic that more people believe in
reincarnation than don't. Anyone else heard this, or is this UL material?

-- 
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
J. Erik Radmall                    | Xerox Corp.
eradm@brahms.wbst845e.xerox.com    | Knowledge-Based Systems Competency Center
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Newsgroups: sci.skeptic
From: ata@hfsi.uucp (John Ata - FSO)
Subject: Re: Soul
Organization: HFS, Inc., McLean VA
Date: Wed, 7 Oct 1992 01:32:05 GMT

In article <1992Oct5.105937.9014@iccgcc.decnet.ab.com> kambic@iccgcc.decnet.ab.com (Bonus, Iniquus, Celer - Delegitus Duo) writes:
>In article <1992Oct2.213955.23389@hfsi.uucp>, ata@hfsi.uucp (John Ata - FSO) writes:
>[...much convolution removed...]
>>>
>> 
>> The soul has a gift called free will.  It can choose to do things
>> that are contrary to God.  Remember, because it is *like* God
>> (i.e. have similar properties) this does not make it God.
>> Therefore, there is no guarantee that all of its actions are what
>> God would want that person to do.
>
>How do you differentiate between the acts  that the soul wants to actually do 
>and those that are filtered  through a damaged brain, if I understand your
>model correctly?
>
>
>GXKambic
>sd

If your question is how one can tell absolutely whether a person's
action is freely done or somehow influenced by a physical
disorder, then the answer is that to the best of my knowledge
there isn't such a method.  We can probably make guesses to the
best of our ability, but they wouldn't be perfect.  However, the
actual existence of some relevant physical disorder is usually a
clue (IMHO)...

-- 
John G. Ata - Technical Consultant | Internet:  ata@hfsi.com
HFS, Inc.		  VA20     |     UUCP:  uunet!hfsi!ata
7900 Westpark Drive	 MS:601	   |    Voice:	(703) 827-6810
McLean, VA  22102	           |      FAX:	(703) 827-3729
Newsgroups: sci.skeptic
From: ata@hfsi.uucp (John Ata - FSO)
Subject: Re: Reincarnation
Organization: HFS, Inc., McLean VA
Date: Wed, 7 Oct 1992 02:40:26 GMT

In article <1992Oct5.173138.9020@iccgcc.decnet.ab.com> kambic@iccgcc.decnet.ab.com (Bonus, Iniquus, Celer - Delegitus Duo) writes:
>In article <1992Oct5.030435.3726@hfsi.uucp>, ata@hfsi.uucp (John Ata - FSO) writes:
>> In article <1alcflINNk87@gap.caltech.edu> carl@SOL1.GPS.CALTECH.EDU writes:
>>>In article <1992Oct1.031305.14118@hfsi.uucp>, ata@hfsi.uucp (John Ata - FSO) writes:

>>>By the way, a belief that, for example, failing to receive extreme unction just
>>>prior to death will condemn one to eternal punishment (or is it just a longer
>>>stretch in purgatory) sounds pretty ominous to me.  If you don't like the
>>>Catholic example, then I'm sure you can find a similar one in the religion of
>>>your choice.
>> 
>> Carl, this is simply not true.  There is *NO* Catholic belief that
>> the Sacrament of the Sick (Extreme Unction) is necessary for
>> salvation. 
>Not necessary but sufficient.

But that's not what he said, reread his comment.  He explicitly
inferred necessary.

>> A person may go straight to Heaven without this
>> sacrament.  This sacrament was instituted to help the dying person
>> recover first their spiritual health, and possibly their physical
>> health.  However, it requires the repentance of the dying
>> person if that person is seriously alienated from God.  There is
>> no magic formula that in and of itself guarantee eternal
>> salvation to the dying person.
>Extreme Unction in its complete form (total  repentence) does guarantee
>salvation.

As does repentance in and of itself.  As does the Sacrament of
Reconciliation (Penance) including repentance.  See the common
element which is necessary here?

>> 
> GXKambic
>sd


-- 
John G. Ata - Technical Consultant | Internet:  ata@hfsi.com
HFS, Inc.		  VA20     |     UUCP:  uunet!hfsi!ata
7900 Westpark Drive	 MS:601	   |    Voice:	(703) 827-6810
McLean, VA  22102	           |      FAX:	(703) 827-3729
Newsgroups: sci.skeptic
Newsgroups: sci.skeptic
Date: Thu,  1 Oct 1992 21:30:38 -0400 
From: Daniel Read <dr3u+@andrew.cmu.edu>
Subject: Fwd: J. Witnesses
	<BvD2M5.1EC@suite.com>

---------- Forwarded message begins here ----------

The basic problem with the "reward"/selflessness schema is that
the reward is known beforehand. With such foreknowledge, I
doubt it is possible to act "purely" on so-called altruistic
motives, since you know you'll be getting a dog bone when
it's all over.

If religion is to function on altruism, any rewards of such
altruism must be kept a secret from the religion's own
practitioners.

Response:

Surely you don't mean that its impossible to act selflessly (or is this a 
synthetic a-priori judgement), but that it is impossible to PROVE that you 
are acting selflessly.  Suppose you offer me a million dollars to donate
a kidney to save someone's life.  I donate the kidney.  Now it doesn't
necessarily  follow (as implied above) that I donated the kidney for a
million dollars, but I would find it dificult to prove that I hadn't.

daniel
From: paj@uk.co.gec-mrc (Paul Johnson)
Newsgroups: sci.skeptic
Subject: Re: July 4, 1992 - Global Spiritual Independence Day
Date: 2 Oct 92 11:58:52 GMT
Reply-To: paj@uk.co.gec-mrc (Paul Johnson)
Organization: GEC-Marconi Research Centre, Great Baddow, UK

In article <1992Oct1.131518.28896@mailer.cc.fsu.edu> waddell@firnvx.firn.edu writes:

>I believe that Kirlean(sp?) photography takes pictures of auras.

Well it takes photographs of something, but there is no evidence that
there is anything spiritual or paranormal about it.  Basically the
person being photographed is connected to a very high voltage low
current source (a Van de Graf generator would probably do nicely) and
the `auras' are the result of discharges from this.  Unfortunately I
cannot remember much more about it.  Can someone who knows please post
some information.  I would like to put this in the FAQ.

Paul.


-- 
Paul Johnson (paj@gec-mrc.co.uk).	    | Tel: +44 245 73331 ext 3245
--------------------------------------------+----------------------------------
These ideas and others like them can be had | GEC-Marconi Research is not
for $0.02 each from any reputable idealist. | responsible for my opinions
Xref: sparky sci.skeptic:17113 alt.folklore.urban:24455
From: twcaps@tennyson.lbl.gov (Terry Chan)
Newsgroups: sci.skeptic,alt.folklore.urban
Subject: Re: Of Egg Yolks and Astrology
Date: 29 Sep 1992 14:47:46 GMT
Organization: Department of Redundancy Department
Reply-To: TWChan@lbl.gov (Terry Chan)
NNTP-Posting-Host: 128.3.12.117

bd%fluent@dartmouth.EDU writes:
 
  [Part of my post about Ken Gray and balancing eggs on the vernal
   equinox deleted]
 
  +Terry, this part of the post seems to imply that Ken Gray in 1985
  +was the start of the rumor that you could balance eggs only at
  +equinoxes.  Am I misinterpreting what you're suggesting?

No.

  +The rumor definately dates from before 1985 (I used to hear it
  +as a kid in the '60s), so I suspect Gray was balancing because
  +of the rumor, not that the rumor started because of Gray's
  +balancing.

Got it, then I agree with you.


Terry "I know, like you all care" Chan
--
Energy and Environment Division   | Internet:  TWChan@lbl.gov
Lawrence Berkeley Laboratory      | 
Berkeley, California  USA  94720  | Carpe Per Diem
From: paj@uk.co.gec-mrc (Paul Johnson)
Newsgroups: sci.skeptic
Subject: Re: Famous Last Words
Date: 1 Oct 92 12:49:50 GMT
Reply-To: paj@uk.co.gec-mrc (Paul Johnson)
Organization: GEC-Marconi Research Centre, Great Baddow, UK

In article <schnitzi.717861879@eola.cs.ucf.edu> schnitzi@cs.ucf.edu (Mark Schnitzius) writes:

>Found this in my system's "fortune" program:
>
>As a method of sending a missile to the higher, and even to the highest
>parts of the earth's atmospheric envelope, Professor Goddard's rocket
>is a practicable and therefore promising device.  It is when one
>considers the multiple-charge rocket as a traveler to the moon that one
>begins to doubt ...

[Rest of paragraph is mixture of fallacies and ad-hominem attack on
Goddard]

>		-- New York Times Editorial, 1920

When Armstrong landed on the moon, the Times printed this quote
together with a straight-faced correction, citing "further
experimentation".

This was in one of A.C. Clarke's books.

Paul.
-- 
Paul Johnson (paj@gec-mrc.co.uk).	    | Tel: +44 245 73331 ext 3245
--------------------------------------------+----------------------------------
These ideas and others like them can be had | GEC-Marconi Research is not
for $0.02 each from any reputable idealist. | responsible for my opinions
Newsgroups: sci.skeptic
Subject: Re: Out-of-body near-death experiences + past lives
From: cse3006@eve.wright.edu (MICHAEL KOTLER)
Date: 29 Sep 92 00:17:58 EST
Distribution: sci.skeptic
Organization: Wright State University
Summary: Scientific evidence for NDE's

In article <Bv47pr.A3J@knot.ccs.queensu.ca> linley@qucis.queensu.ca (Richard Linley) writes:

>The subject has come up twice today, once in a University lecture in which
>the Prof announced that "medical doctors" now "accept" these experiences as
>evidence that there is some awareness beyond life.
>
>Does anyone have any references to real academic work on this subject?  E-Mail
>is fine, or general distribution if you think others might like to know.
>
Regarding the Near-Death Experience (NDE) and the Out-of-Body Experience
(OBE):

Raymond A. Moody, MD, PhD, coined the term NDE back in 1973.  Since that
time, he has written three books on the subject.  Moody has a PhD in
Philosophy, and his MD practice is in both Psychiatry and Cardiology.
Admittedly, his books are primarily anecdotal, but very convincing.

One of the leading serious researchers in the field is Prof. Kenneth
Ring, PhD Psychology, who is currently at the University of Conneticut.
His major works are: "Life at Death" ,1980 (A Scientific Explanation of the NDE)
and "Heading Toward Omega", 1984 (In Search of the Meaning of the NDE).

Another recent book by Melvin L. Morse, MD, "Closer to the Light", 1990,
looks at the NDE's of children.

In these, and in many other books on the subject, the OBE is often
closely coupled to the NDE.


In a somewhat related subject, Professor Ian Stevenson, formerly Head of
the Psychiatry Dept. at the University of Virginia, has spent over 30
years seriously investigating children between the ages of 2 and 4 years
old who remember previous lives that in most cases can be verified.  In
several of these cases, the children recall experiences similar to the
NDE and OBE upon death of their previous life.  This unusual and rare
phenomenon of children remembering previous lives has been observed by
Stevenson in seven different cultures.  He has published 7 books on
this subject by the U. of Virginia press.  Many of his articles have
been published in refereed medical journals.

Mike
Wright State University
Dayton, Ohio
Newsgroups: sci.skeptic
From: mcgrath@cs.uiuc.edu (Robert McGrath)
Subject: Re: LARSONIAN Physics and Astronomy
Reply-To: mcgrath@cs.uiuc.edu
Organization: University of Illinois, Dept of Computer Science
Date: Wed, 7 Oct 1992 02:46:34 GMT

In article <1992Oct6.174540.1577@cnsvax.uwec.edu>, mcelwre@cnsvax.uwec.edu writes:
|> 
|> 
|>                           LARSONIAN "Reciprocal System"
Why is this posted here?
Xref: sparky sci.skeptic:17492 alt.conspiracy:10980