From: ajh@Xenon.Stanford.EDU (Alan Hu)
Subject: Re: FAQ
Organization: Computer Science Department, Stanford University.
Date: Sun, 10 Jan 1993 01:07:00 GMT

In article <1993Jan9.212945.18351@leland.Stanford.EDU> underdog@leland.Stanford.EDU (Dwight Joe) writes:
>In article <1993Jan9.030712.856@CSD-NewsHost.Stanford.EDU>
>ajh@Xenon.Stanford.EDU (Alan Hu) writes:
	[My whining deleted.]
>
>Regardless of the denotation of "oriental", it now connotes the peoples of
>E. Asia.  Clearly, when "oriental" is used, we know what facial features that
>suggest.  The word "Asian" does not have the same implication.  In fact, its
>denotation suggests the same:  (from Webster's dictionary)
>
>     Asian \'<a^->-zh<e>n, -sh<e>n\ adj (1599)
>         :of, relating to, or characteristic of the continent of Asia or its 
>         people-- Asian n
>
>Asian people means those in the entire area to the right of Europe, including
>Russia.

Yes, Dwight, these are good points.  In current American usage, "Oriental"
tends to denote a certain physical appearance, replete with one set of
stereotypical behaviors.  Among certain crowds, "Asian" is used synonymously
with the current American usage of "Oriental".  I do not believe in this
usage.  Historically, the term "Oriental" was applied to South Asians as
well, please see my other post on Indian-American history.

The usage of the term "Asian American" to denote a certain group that includes,
for example, Indian Americans, but excludes, for example, Russian Americans,
is, indeed, imprecise, as both Dwight and Mark Day have pointed out.  My
usage of the term "Asian American" coincides with the US Civil Rights
Comission's report.  I hope that source is sufficiently Western-cu for
Dwight's tastes.

>
>Despite this fact and despite Mr. Hu's pretentions to use the term "Asian"
>to refer to South Asian Americans, Mr. Hu does not refer to S. Asian Americans
>when he complains:
>
>(AAF = asian-american female, WM = white male, AAM = asian-american male,
> WF = white female)
>
>     ajh@Xenon.Stanford.EDU (Alan Hu) writes:
>     >The simple fact, though, is that AAF/WM relationships outnumber
>     >AAM/WF relationships by a huge margin.  (From marriage records,
>     >4:1 in San Francisco, 8:1 in Sacramento)  It doesn't take a statistical
>     >genius to surmise that something very strange is going on.

Yes, another valid point from Dwight.  The figures I quoted are from
a San Francisco Chronicle/Exmaminer article written by Joan Walsh
(Dec 2, 1990), as kindly typed-in by Christine Lee.  Although the
article does not specify that these figures only refer to Chinese Americans,
or "Orientals" (in Dwight's usage of the word), it also does not
specify whether they included South-Asian Americans in these figures.
Thus, it is conceivable that a huge number of South-Asian-American males
are married to white females in Northern California, balancing the ratio.

>
>When he becomes angry that White men are marrying Asian-American women, he
>is not referring to South Asian-American women.  He is referring to Oriental-
>American women.
>

It's unfortunate that my analyses are being interpreted as complaints
and anger.  Dwight, what is it about my posts that you perceive as
complaining or angry?  I will attempt to express myself more clearly
in the future.

>Mr. Hu does not, himself, use the term Asian to refer to South Asians.
>Why is he complaining when other people use it to refer to groups other
>than South Asians?

I hope this reply clears up any misunderstandings, Dwight.

						--Alan Hu

>
>------------------------------------------------------------------+------------
>Jinsei no imi wa nan desu ka.                Sister, can you      |   \|  |`
>Shitte itara oshiete kuremasen ka.           spare a coin?        |    | -+-
>                                                                  |   /| / \
>Copyright 1992, 1993    Disclaimer:  1 + 1 = 3                    |
>------------------------------------------------------------------+------------

If you need a coin, I'm sure your Asian-American brothers and sisters
will be happy chip in...