HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: rjking@acsu.buffalo.edu (Randall J. King)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.startrek.current
Subject: Relics, Spoilers HO!
Date: 12 Oct 92 18:33:24 GMT
Organization: UB

Spoilers...


I like it!  

It definitly had the feeling of TOS to it.  It starts off with Riker and Geordi
finding Scotty in statis in the transporter.  Scotty did this to save himself
and a shipmate from starving.  I loved how the writers made Scotty feel 
like a 'relic', and Doohan played it to the tee.  I loved the constant 
references to TOS by Scotty. The old set looked perfect, but I don't know if
it was the original.  I did find a few things wrong with the episode:

1) Scotty could taste the difference between Synthohol and alcohol, so Data
	gave him some brandy (I forgot what kind it was but it was 'Green').
	Problem: The replicators are able to sythesize real alcohol as well
		  as synthohol, so Data didn't have to break into the stock.

2) Scotty & Geordi were beemed through the shields at the very end.  I would 
	think that even an old shield design at full power would be able to 
	give the shields problems.

3) Scotty just leaves!?!?!?!?!?!? I don't get it.  But really cool.

4) this dome thingy.  By the size of it, the gravity distortions from it, etc. 
	I would think that Starfleet would have found it by now.  Come on.  
	How would something like that have been built?  It was just waaaaay too
	out there.

Things I liked about the episode:

1) Scotty's attitude towards Worf.  Perfect.

2) Scotty's lamenting over the past on the old bridge.

3) Scotty using the 'new fangled gadgetry' to get the old ship running.  Didn't
	quite undestand how, but who cares...

4) Scotty trying to tell stories constantly, and us understanding them. "I tol'
	'im, I canna change the laws of physics, man..."  :)

5) Scotty telling Geordi how captains were like children.  It explained alot!:)

Things that should be related/noted about this episode.

Scotty doesn't know about Kirk's death, so if Scotty is in the next movie, Kirk
will not die.  Scotty was lost before the Kittamer Massacre (hence the attitude
towards Worf). When the next movie comes out (and you know there will be 
another) alot of attention better be given to this episode.  Any other notes 
from anyone else...

signing off from the satelite of love.....           ___   _____  ___
	                                    |\  /|  |   \    |   /   \   |  / 
rjking@acsu.buffalo.edu                     | \/ |   \       |       /   | /
v050qrq3@cc.buffalo.edu	                    |    |    \      |    --<    |<
                                            |    |     \     |       \   | \
push the button Frank...                    |    |  \___|    |   \___/   |  \
From: v070p6nd@ubvmsd.cc.buffalo.edu (Anthos)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.startrek.current
Subject: Re: "Lay off Worf!"
Date: 12 Oct 92 01:35:00 GMT
Followup-To: rec.arts.startrek.current
Organization: SUNY at Beefalo
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41

In article <jgasaway-111092142156@mac20-199.ncsa.uiuc.edu>, jgasaway@ncsa.uiuc.edu (James Gasaway) writes...
>Man Of The People *baby spoiler*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
 
>In article <1992Oct10.222827.15371@CSD-NewsHost.Stanford.EDU>,
>kevin@Xenon.Stanford.EDU (Kevin Ernst Duckworth) wrote:
> 
>(stuff deleted)
> 
>> Lay off Worf!  It wasn't exactly like he should be carrying a phaser into
>> a touchy situation!  What choice did he have but to just stand there?
>> Start a fist fight?  Challenge every one in the room to a game of Klingon
>> "kill the man with the phaser"?  There was no way he could have anticipated 
>> those sneaky guards coming behind him.  He did exactly what Picard would
>> have wanted him to do... suggesting to me that he is learning alot about 
>> diplomacy in general and gearing up for a ship of his own... {{8<)|:
> 
>I can't let Worf off the hook that easily (as I stated in an earlier post).
> Granted, he reacted correctly once the guards "got" him.  But to suggest
>there was no way he could've anticipated someone coming up behind him is
>IMHO ridiculous.  Worf is responsible for Picard's safety.  It's his *job*
>to anticipate -- to put himself in a position where he can act most
>efficiently.  Obviously, he can't be ready for *everything*, but he most
>definitely should know who's around him when he knows he's in a potentially
>hostile situation.  Hey Worf!  How about putting your back to the wall? 
>I'll say it again -- Give Worf remedial training.

But, if you assume that he saw the guards, or just even noticed them, he did
exactly what he should have.  Ignore them, they won't fire on them because
they have no reason to, and they won't since Picard wouldn't make the
situation so bad that they would.  Remember, Picard had to ask permission to
be beamed down, since there was a defensive shield over the city, so hostilities
were not to be expected, and the situation didn't warrant any other action.

If you feel otherwise, explain to me what you thought Worf should have done,
and I'll explain why it wasn't done.
> 
>Plot device is a required writer's tool, but it sure makes supposedly
>competent characters look stupid.
> 
> 
>James 
>jgasaway@ncsa.uiuc.edu
>Univ of Illinois @ Urbana/Champaign

Anthos, the Grey Knight, High Preist of Minikar, God of Chaos, Horrible Puns,
                                                  and Extremely Bad Form
================================================================================
Across time and space/ The grey knight cometh/ With dragons to rape/
Madiens to slay/ Castles to sack/ Towns to pillage/ Quarterbacks to plunder

Oh, how I am confused!
===========I wish this was a .sig so I wouldn't have to type all this===========
From: zorak@matt.ksu.ksu.edu (Scott E Flowers)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.startrek.current
Subject: James Doohan
Keywords: welcome back
Date: 15 Oct 92 15:00:13 GMT
Organization: Kansas State University
NNTP-Posting-Host: matt.ksu.ksu.edu

Warning:  new person to newgroup with some interesting information
          	
I just saw "Relics" a couple days ago.  What can i say that hasn't already	been said.  Nothing.  I loved it, but i have always enjoyed any episode	with
Scotty in it.  It might be the name, or it could be that he is an engineer.

Enough said, onto the info.  I remember when James Doohan came to Topeka
Kansas to promote STIV, i think it was.  This was not long after "Encounter
at Farpoint" came out.  ST:TNG was the talk of the world.  With Doohan in
Topeka, it was a good time for the local press to get his opinion on how
he felt about it.  I don't remember much about the interviews but one thing
does come to mind.  When asked about Deforest Kelley's appearance as the aged
admiral, and the possiblity of whether or not he would appear on the show,
Doohan replied, (major paraphrase, it has been five years or so) that 	
Kelley's appearance was stupid and that he would not appear in any episodes.
He stated that what was ST going to do, bring back all the orginal crew
and say that they all contracted some slow aging disease or such.  It is
stupid.
    
Well James Doohan, all i have to say is that i am glad you changed you mind.
Glad to have you back aboard and, of course, welcome to the 24th century.


                              
Scott

sig pending upon approval from starfleet command.
 
Newsgroups: rec.arts.startrek.current
From: wombat@eng.umd.edu (Jose Gonzalez)
Subject: Re: *Spoiler* Comments on "Man of the People"
Date: Thu, 08 Oct 92 03:57:58 GMT
Organization: University of Maryland, College Park, College of Engineering
Distribution: na
Originator: wombat@coke.eng.umd.edu

In article <ratner.718501708@ficus.cs.ucla.edu> ratner@ficus.cs.ucla.edu (David Ratner) writes:
>wombat@eng.umd.edu (Jose Gonzalez) writes:
>
>>*Spoilers*               

Just a reminder here, folks.  Please try to keep the spoiler protection
in place in followups.  I'm sure a lot of people would appreciate 
it.  (Including myself, I usually don't get to see TNG until Saturdays.  I
just got lucky this week.)
>


>
>>A Few Random Comments:
>
>>- The episode starts out as if it's going to be yet another Troi-falls-in- 
>>love-with-visiting-ambassador episode.  Fortunately, that's not what it's
>>about.
>Thank you Paramount.  She had that look in her eye like she does when
>any strange man comes on board --- "I want him".  I was going to
>barf if it happened again.
>

Agreed.  Hopefully they decided to retire this plotline.  (Even though
it worked in "The Masterpiece Society," the plot has been much overused.)

>Another problem - 
>	What about Aklar calling the first ``receptacle'' mother.  Why didn't
>the girl complain about it, insist that she wasn't his mother?  Unknown.

Since Troi seems to be lusting after Alkar the whole episode, it appears
that strong desire for him was part of the deal along with negative emotions.
Both Troi and "mother" warned off would-be competitors for Alkar.  Perhaps
mother wanted Alkar too much to turn him in.

>And why didn't Troi use her magic powers and sense something wrong
>with her?  Her neurotransmitters are 400% above normal, she exhibits ALL
>the strange emotions coming from Aklar, but Troi doesn't notice a thing?

Well, Troi did say she "sensed" (And here I thought they were getting away
from that *awful* verb.) immense evil from mother.  Maybe she thought she
was just one nasty old hag.

>
>>- Somebody gets the drop on Worf yet again.  At least they're consistent.
>Worf's role this week was just plain stupid.  Not even a struggle.

Well, it was a rather relaxed situation, so Worf's guard probably wasn't
up.  But still, that *is* his job.

-- 
Jose Gonzalez
Newsgroups: rec.arts.startrek.current
Subject: Re: Dread of Scotty Episode
From: hef@vitro.com
Date: 13 Oct 92 09:24:48 -0500
 <1992Oct8.190133.4557@CSD-NewsHost.Stanford.EDU> 
 <1992Oct9.040947.15525@athena.mit.edu> <1992Oct9.122302.19874@CSD-NewsHost.Stanford.EDU>
Organization: Vitro Corporation
Nntp-Posting-User: mbwatch

In article <1992Oct9.122302.19874@CSD-NewsHost.Stanford.EDU>, kanamori@Xenon.Stanford.EDU (Atsushi Kanamori) writes:
> In article <1992Oct9.040947.15525@athena.mit.edu> johnnyp@athena.mit.edu (John Piscitello) writes:
>>	BTW, word is from Cons and from Paramount that people inside the
>>show are *very* big on Relics....many think it may be the best TNG episode
>>so far. We'll have to wait and see...
> 
> They are also "*very* big" on "The Outcast", "Q-Pid" (at least Stewart is)
> and "Cost of Living". 
> 
> Need I say more?

Wait a minute, here.  TV Guide says "Relics" is "a winning installment."

Need I say more?

            ////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////
           //
          //   Mike Heffner               Internet: hef@vitro.com
\\\\\    //  Vitro Corporation
    \\  // 14000 Georgia Avenue          "To understand recursion,
     \\// Silver Spring, MD 20906  you must first understand recursion."
      \/                                        -- Unknown
Newsgroups: rec.arts.startrek.current
From: hucke@ux1.cso.uiuc.edu (Matt Hucke)
Subject: Re: O'Brien's Rank [THE FINAL ANSWER]
Organization: University of Illinois at Urbana-Champaign
Distribution: na
Date: Wed, 7 Oct 1992 18:20:33 GMT

In article <chil.718279123@sfu.ca> chil@fraser.sfu.ca (Keith Lim) writes:

>I just read a new one about O'Brien's pips being silver, while 
>everyone else's are gold. (Give me a break!)

I have a black and white TV, so I have no idea which is true... 

>Whereas those of us sensible ones in the "O'Brien is a Lt" camp *don't need*
>to sweat over concocting plausible (or implausible) scenarios to explain away
>all the questions. O'Brien is a Lt. O'Brien wears Lt pips. Sergei Roschenko
>calling him a CPO was the YATI. Simple.

You *are* concocting implausible scenarios.  Roschenko doesn't know the
rank system even though he is a SFleet vet?  He has never *once* been
called Lieutentant, but always "Chief", which is the standard naval term
for a CPO.  And the best evidence was presented just last week, when he
was given a direct order by Barcley (a Lt. JG, i think.), and he wore
only a single pip-- they're obviously making him enlisted now, unless
you'd like to argue that he was demoted for some unknown reason.

There was no definite answer until recently.  Paramount was vague, and
caused this problem... but apparently they're trying to correct their
mistake, and chose to make him a CPO.

-- 
   And thither came Conan, a thief, a reaver, a slayer, to tread the jeweled 
   thrones of the Earth beneath his sandaled feet.  --THE NEMEDIAN CHRONICLES 
hucke@ux1.cso.uiuc.edu             _V_a_l_h_a_l_l_a BBS, 217-352-3682, WWIV4.21, 14.4k
Newsgroups: rec.arts.startrek.current
From: wmorgan@stsci.edu (Windsor A. Morgan)
Subject: Re: Good News for Balt/Wash Area Viewers
Organization: Space Telescope Science Institute
Distribution: usa
Date: Tue, 13 Oct 1992 20:38:32 GMT

In article <1992Oct12.212924.542@eng.umd.edu> wombat@eng.umd.edu (Jose Gonzalez) writes:
>I would have set this for just maryland distribution, but this concerns
>Washington D.C. residents as well.  Skip it if you don't live in
>the area.



>According to the latest Baltimore Sun TV Guide, WNUV TV 54 will not be
>waiting till the weekend to show Deep Space Nine.  It will be on Wednesdays
>at 8:00 p.m.  (I heard a rumor at OctoberTrek that they also had the
>the rights to TNG as well starting in January.  Anyone want to call
>and confirm this.  Windsor A. Morgan, maybe? (-:)

I called WNUV Channel 54 this morning, and got some semi-confusing
information:

Wednesday, January 6 at 8pm, WNUV will show the "first episode" of
Deep Space Nine, and will show it again the following Sunday at 6pm.
In addition, the "movie pilot" will be shown Thursday, January 7 at
8pm, and again the following Sunday at 7pm, evidently right after
the "first episode".

No, I don't know why the "movie pilot" is different from the "first
episode", and why the "movie pilot" is being shown after the "first
episode."

There is *NO TRUTH* to the rumor that WNUV will be broadcasting TNG.
I inferred from the programmer's response that she had heard that
rumor before.

>The *better* news, though, is that WDCA is *finally* going to show Trek
>during the week.  According to the Sun, WDCA 20 is going to be showing
>Deep Space Nine at 9 p.m. on Mondays.  Hopefully, they'll package it
>with TNG on the same night.  (Anyone want to confirm *this*?  Windsor? (-:)

I called WDCA Channel 20 this afternoon, and found that DS9 will
be shown Mondays at 8pm, though that could still change.  Also, at
least through December, TNG will remain at Saturdays at 7pm, though
that too can change.

-- 
'Verily, there be no leader as wise as the Vision!'
                         Windsor Morgan (wmorgan@stsci.edu OR NHT@PSUVM.BITNET)
                         Space Telescope Science Institute
                         Baltimore, MD   21218
Newsgroups: rec.arts.startrek.current
From: jhildeb1@cc.swarthmore.edu (Jeff Hildebrand)
Subject: Re: man of the people - better ending *spoilers*
Reply-To: jhildeb1@cc.swarthmore.edu (Jeff Hildebrand)
Organization: Don's Merry Horde of Topologists
Date: Sun, 11 Oct 1992 05:32:14 GMT

Eric Schlene <eschlene@indiana.edu> writes:
> IMHO, the finale of MOTP was horrible. This guy was a total slime. In
> Worf terms, "He had no honor." To let him off the hook via a quick death
> was a sin. The plot should have worked in a side story that would have
> him, after being found out, returned to his home world in disgrace,
> living out his remaining days ostracized, ridiculed, and horribly
> disfigured. All of which, of course, dealt by his own lust for power and
> greed.

	Except that given they took the plot lock, stock, and barrel from
Oscar Wilde's "Dorian Grey" they didn't have much choice about the ending. 
It also made the episode incredibly predictable and extrememly unoriginal.

-Jeff
-- 
Jeff Hildebrand, The Shaggy TA			hildebra@math.wisc.edu
"Join that political superman, secret agent double 0 zero, George Bosh
in his new film, 'Never Just Say No Again.'"      Off The Cuff, R.I.P.
"Did everyone buy that? Good, 'cause I didn't"   The Proof By Snow Job
Newsgroups: rec.arts.startrek.current,rec.arts.startrek.misc
From: gwangung@carson.u.washington.edu (Roger Tang)
Subject: Re: Quality of writing in TNG (was something else)
Organization: University of Washington, Seattle
Date: Fri, 16 Oct 1992 18:53:23 GMT

In article <1992Oct16.160643.1518@athena.mit.edu> johnnyp@athena.mit.edu (John Piscitello) writes:
>In article <1992Oct15.203259.13336@u.washington.edu> gwangung@carson.u.washington.edu (Roger Tang) writes:
>>	It's not so much the intial constraints, but the interference that
>>goes on after the intial story that goes on.  I know plenty of good writers
>>(read award winners) who don't mind the initial conditions, but are leary
>>of treatment once production begins.
>>>I see some shortsightedness here.  If the story doctrine remains
>>>unchanged, I think fans will abandon TNG as a stagnant, unimaginative
>>>waste of time, and it will die.
>>	Doubtful, considering the unconditional adulation the True Fans
>>seem to give every episode (see aftermath of Atsushi's departure).

>	I assume you are referring to me (REAL FANS take r.a.s.c BACK!).

	Somewhat. But there are more than enough True Fans hanging around.

>I never gave it "unconditional adulation". It's just that Atsushi, under
>the guise of "true fan", gives the show an unconditional rejection week
>after week.

	But somehow, he gives solid, valid reasons why he does it. Not that
I agree that those reasons are enough to spoil an episode for me, but
I can usually see what he's getting at in his critiques.

 I've said it over and over: I'd rather see the show take
>risks and fail than to not take risks. That means yes, it fails sometimes.

	Yes, but the show DOESN'T takes risks, either dramatically
or in subject matter. And that's what rankles some people.


>	I also disagree that the writer constraints of keeping the
>action on the ship make for a bad episode: witness "Cause and Effect", 
>"Conumdrum", and "I, Borg". Besides, they had the exact same pressures with TOS
>and that show did just fine.

	Which is what a lot of people point out....

	However, I agree the constraints are not the issue; in fact, they
take away a lot of crutches outside writers tend to rely on. That SHOULD
get you to the meat of drama, which is character interaction and conflict.


-- 
Roger Tang, gwangung@u.washington.edu
Producer Emeritus, Asian Theatre at the UW
	"The definition of balls is for a non-singer to go karaoke singing
with the cast of a musical revue."
Newsgroups: rec.arts.startrek.current
From: tomcat@cwis.unomaha.edu (Jeffrey S. Jo)
Subject: Re: Man of the People Script Flaw!
Organization: University of Nebraska at Omaha
Date: Tue, 13 Oct 1992 19:36:23 GMT



I think that Picard did not want to start an incident as they were reps of
Starfleet under orders to escort the ambassador...not start a war.


--
|Jeffrey S. Jo                   |	         F-14D Tomcat                 |
|Computer Operations		 |             VF-142 Ghostriders             |
|University of Nebraska at Omaha |       United States Navy F-14 Tomcat       |
|tomcat@cwis.unomaha.edu         |              Fighter Squadron              |
Newsgroups: rec.arts.startrek.current
Subject: Re: Time's Arrow II question
From: rdale@cstp.umkc.edu
Date: Sat, 10 Oct 1992 19:16:08 GMT
Organization: UM - Kansas City, Computer Science

> But they did work, Dr Crusher called the others using one in the hospital...when
> the aliens came in....

	What I want to know is where did they get the clothes from?  Or,
from where did they get the clothes?  They went through the "portal", and
the next time we see them they're in a hotel room in olde tyme attire.

Newsgroups: rec.arts.startrek.current
From: Q11343@maccvm.corp.mot.com (Jonathan Ogden)
Subject: Re: Realm of Fear: space worms ???
Organization: Motorola
Date: 7 Oct 1992 09:12:07 CDT

------------------------- Original Article -------------------------
Newsgroups: rec.arts.startrek.current
From: rat1@me1.MsState.Edu (Robert Thompson)
Subject: Re: Realm of Fear: space worms ???
Organization: Mississippi State University
Date: Tue, 6 Oct 1992 14:21:48 GMT

In article <70151@hydra.gatech.EDU> cegtitd@prism.gatech.EDU (Tim Dodd) writes:
>In article <1aqainINN2j3@agate.berkeley.edu> ph111-bx@violet.berkeley.edu (;;;;
>>I suppose these might be spoilers






















>>Could someone please explain to me why the people stuck in
>>the transporter looked like those sand worms from Dune, and
>>how it was so easy and "should've known that" obvious to see
>>the connection afterwards?  To me, it still makes no sense.
>
>Yeah:  Barclay still looked like Barclay, but these people all looked
>like mutated intestinal parasites!  Also, how come they told Barclay
>that he couldn't stay dematerialized for more than 30-40 seconds or
>they would lose his signal, but they were able to recover the Yosemite's
>crew members after at least 3-4 DAYS!  For that matter, if you're
>disassembled at the molecular level, how is it possible to "experience"
>anything during transport (much less grab things!)?  And, before I'm
>finished, who was operating the transporter when the 4 Yosemite crew
>members beamed out?
>
Ok, here are my possible conjectures as to this and the show.
For one most of the things in question were explained in the show itself.
The reason the crew members appeared as worms was because due to the
fact that all the matter was out of phase in the transporter beam things
didn't appear as they should.

The reason they were able to stay dematerialized was mentioned as well.
The inonization energy pulses of the plazma stream was enough to keep
the patterns from disintegrating.  Something like that.  Watch the show
again.

The reason why they were in the transporter was that they were trying to
rid themselves of the microbes.  And the 5th crew member found dead was
the one who put them in the transporter beam.  They weren't trying to
transport anywhere.

Keep this in mind too.  This is SCI-FI, most of the technology on the
show does not yet exist.  Therefore much won't make sense or such.
It's like the old Jules Verne stuff.  Totally inaccurate by today's
techno standards, but still neat.  He wrote it well before space flight
was possible.

Xref: sparky rec.arts.startrek.current:14871 rec.arts.startrek.misc:10165
From: Peter_A_David@cup.portal.com
Newsgroups: rec.arts.startrek.current,rec.arts.startrek.misc
Subject: Re: Stupid question about Peter David
Date: Thu,  8 Oct 92 00:54:19 PDT
Organization: The Portal System (TM)
Distribution: world
  <66978@cup.portal.com><1992Oct1.121924.13737@CSD-NewsHost.Stanford.EDU><19
   92Oct1.161249.1919@gdr.bath.ac.uk>  
  <67055@cup.portal.com><ivy.718250532@camelot>  
  <92278.232425JAP8@psuvm.psu.edu> <67186@cup.portal.com>
  <jhitch.718514449@crash.cts.com>

"Orgasm works also."  (I tried this once.  It works.)"

You know, remove that sentence from the context of the discussion, and
I defy anyone to figure out what prompted it.

Looks like a great sig. line to me.

PAD
Xref: sparky rec.arts.startrek.current:15707 rec.arts.startrek.misc:10456