HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: mmckenna@bnr.ca (Michael McKenna)
Subject: Hip Pain re-visited
Reply-To: mmckenna@bnr.ca (Michael McKenna)
Organization: Bell-Northern Research Ltd.
Date: Fri, 22 Jan 1993 14:58:42 GMT

A couple of weeks ago there was some discussion with regards to
hip pain.  At the time I posted that I was told that it was due
to muscle imbalance and was told to do leg lifts to strengthen
the outside of my leg.  Well I tried this for a couple of months
with no real improvement... it didn't seem to be getting worse,
but certainly not better.  Earlier this week I think I stumbled 
on the correct therapy for myself that I figured I should share.
I noticed that when I was walking or running my knee was not 
bending straight over my foot. When I tried to force my knee to
bend straight over my foot I noticed how tight my calves were.  
For the next few days I did calf stretches - from the achilles area
to the knee and the pain in my hip is no longer noticeable.

Mike McKenna
Newsgroups: rec.running
From: rush@eggneb.astro.ucla.edu (Brian Rush )
Subject: Is F. Kittredge racist? (was: Re: Why are Kenyans so fast (rebutal))
Organization: UCLA Dept of Astronomy
Date: 25 Jan 93 08:07:01 PST

In article <FKITTRED.93Jan23200913@spchp13.BBN.COM> fkittred@spchp13.BBN.COM (Fletcher Kittredge) writes:
>4) Their argument is inherently racist.It is racist because we wouldn't even
>   be having this discussion if the athletes involved were not African.
>   If the Germans had won a bunch of marathons in a row, we wouldn't
>   be talking about how the Germans are genetically superior runners
>   to the French, we would be talking about how good the German's training
>   program was.  Yet there is an equal genetic distance between the
>   French and the Germans as between the East Africans and West Africans.

YOU are either racist or the most unintelligent person to post to this
newsgroup in a long time.  First of all, your claim above is based on
completely flawed logic.  Can you prove it?  No.  Second, even if it
were sound login, the 'then' part of an 'if-then' statement is not
supported at all if the 'if' part is false.  Why didn't you even
consider looking at facts before posting your uninformed (I'm giving you
the benefit of the doubt here my saying uninformed instead of stupid)
opinions?  Medical journals are FILLED with articles studying differences
between all sorts of people groups as it relates to athletic   
performance.  The only reason that RW chose to write about this one in
particular is that it is the only such issue that has been a hot topic
of discussion among runner for years.  There is no reason NOT to believe
that they would have written a story had there been a largely noticable
and often talked about performance difference between, say, Germans and
Spaniards.  One of the most blatant forms of racism is when people
like you assume things along the lines of 'all white people are racist'
or when you are LOOKING for any opportunity to call someone racist just
because they try to talk about a race-related issue.  Grow up.
Newsgroups: rec.running
From: mlcx@cbnewsf.cb.att.com (mark.l.clark)
Subject: Re: Presidental running (again)
Organization: AT&T
Distribution: usa
Date: Thu, 28 Jan 1993 14:34:53 GMT

I was a little confused by this article looking at the subject
and then reading the body of the article:

Was President Clinton running or was he jogging?

(I'm sorry, I couldn't resist, since I didn't see the report
I wasn't sure if he was wearing a headband or walkman.

just wondering,

Mark


Newsgroups: rec.running
From: tordm@vand (Tord G.M. Malmgren)
Subject: Re: Why are Kenyans so fast and US distance runners so slow?
Reply-To: TordM@VanA.PhySto.SE
Organization: Department of Physics, University of Stockholm -- Sweden
Date: Fri, 22 Jan 1993 20:43:55 GMT

In article <1993Jan22.185421.21108@crd.ge.com>, berkery@emmax5crd.ge.com (jack berkery) writes:

>Congratulations, you discovered through personal experience exactly what took
>tens of thousands of dollars for the Swedish Olympic team to figure out :-}

 they wanted a "good" reason to go on vacation... :)

>Bottom line: Nothing genetically special about them. It seems distance running
>is Kenya's national sport and gets all the best athletes. You should have told
>them and saved Swedish taxpayers some money.

 it wouldn't have saved any money; they get a certain amount of money
each year, and they can do whatever they want to do with it, it still
cost the tax payers the same :)
 see the reason above "why" they went to Kenya...




---------------+--------------------------------+----------------------------
 Tord Malmgren | InterNet: TordM@VanA.PhySto.SE | These opinions are my OWN,
               | BITNet  : TordM@SESUF51        | and NOT of this department!
---------------+--------------------------------+----------------------------
 Department of Physics, University of Stockholm -- Sweden (Northern Europe)
Newsgroups: rec.running
From: lpc@dickens.com (Luis P Caamano)
Subject: Re: Plantar Facitis (?sp)
Date: Mon, 25 Jan 1993 02:27:08 GMT
Organization: Dickens Data Systems, Inc.

In article <1993Jan22.143155.41820@ux1.cts.eiu.edu> cfthb@ux1.cts.eiu.edu (Howard Black) writes:
>
>    The thing about PF is that it is more a symptom than a primary injury;
>that is, it results from some kind of biomechanical problem that, if not
>corrected, will cause PF again.  
                       ^^^^^^^^
And more than that will produce a heel spur which is so painful you
can hardly walk and more than often requires surgery.  What happens is
that the heel bone grows in the direction of the muscle to try to help
(I'd say), but the spur will pinch your skin and the fat sac that
protects the bone.  So, I agree completely with that.  PF is a
symptom of something worse.

-- 
Luis P. Caamano                        |         lpc@dickens.com
Dickens Data Systems, Inc. Atlanta, GA |         uunet!dickens.com!lpc
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
If I think I know it all, I'll stop learning. -myself
The more I learn, the more I know I know nothing. -somebody else
Newsgroups: rec.running
From: kenl@origami.cc.bellcore.com (Ken Lehner)
Subject: Re: Presidental running (again)
Organization: Bellcore
Distribution: usa
Date: Thu, 28 Jan 93 15:20:24 GMT

CBS radio reported that Pres. Clinton (still sounds odd) was out at 6:30
this morning, and did 4 miles in 35:00 (8:45/mile)...
From:  (Chris Jaggers)
Newsgroups: rec.running
Subject: Re: Marathons in So. Cal.
Date: 26 Jan 93 21:23:57 GMT
Followup-To: rec.running
Organization: The Aerospace Corporation; El Segundo, CA

In article <1993Jan25.083735.27239@mic.ucla.edu>,
rush@eggneb.astro.ucla.edu () wrote:
> 
> 
> Does anyone know of any Marathons or half-marathons or large 10ks with
> fast fields in southern California this year, especially before June?
> Thanks.
Marathons: Long Beach (Feb 7), Los Angeles (Mar 7)     Half-Marathon:
Ontario Half Marathon (Ontario, ~March/April?, small field, winning time is
1:04-1:06)     10Ks: Super Bowl Sunday 10K (Redondo Beach, Jan 31, 15,000+,
winning time is usually under 29 minutes); Mobil Run for the Blind 10K
(Torrance, March 14, 10,000+, winning time is mid-28s to high 29s); 'Round
Orange 10K (Orange, April 4, 4000+, winning time is mid- to high-29s)  
Other major races of note:  Big Sur Marathon (April 25, 4000+, hilly
course, winning time is 2:20 or so);  Las Vegas Marathon and Half-Marathon
(Feb 6, 2000+, downhill course, winning time for marathon is about
2:14-2:17, half-marathon is first-time event); Bastille Day 8K (Newport
Beach, mid-July, 6000+, winning time is high-22s/low 23's); Newport Beach
5K (June, 3000+, winning time is low 14s); Gardena 5000 (Gardena, late
July, 3000+, winning time is high 13s/low 14s).  I also have information on
Northern California races and races in the second half of the year.  
Chris Jaggers
Newsgroups: rec.running
From: tordm@vand (Tord G.M. Malmgren)
Subject: Re: Causes for Shin Splints? A Theory
Reply-To: TordM@VanA.PhySto.SE
Organization: Department of Physics, University of Stockholm -- Sweden
Date: Wed, 27 Jan 1993 11:53:06 GMT

In article <C1G638.205@news.cso.uiuc.edu>, magdi@uxh.cso.uiuc.edu (Magdi N Azer) writes:

[...]
>	4)  From the logic of the above three observations, I concluded that
>the reason I get shin splints on the indoor track at the U of I Armory is
>because I am repetitively doing a motion/exercise that isolates the
>weakness in my shin (Running on a flat surface).  The reason I only get shin
>splints or soreness on the Armory track is that other places I run (Either
>outside or on a suspended, banked track) is becuase in the case of being
>outside and on the banked track, I am not constantly isolating my shin.
>Instead, the motion of my foot as I travel across different terrains helps not
>to isolate my shin.  Also the suspended track has superior cushioning.
>	Is my logic correct or am I just blowing steam.  Any input is
>aprreciated.

 as I got it, shin splints occur

 1. if you switch bedding, for example during spring and autumn
 2. if you change technique or get new shoes
 3. if you perform intensive training on rough bedding
 4. if you run on your toes or with your feet pointing outwards
 5. if your feet are weak
 6. if you're using spiked shoes, that might be a reason enough




---------------+--------------------------------+----------------------------
 Tord Malmgren | InterNet: TordM@VanA.PhySto.SE | These opinions are my OWN,
               | BITNet  : TordM@SESUF51        | and NOT of this department!
---------------+--------------------------------+----------------------------
 Department of Physics, University of Stockholm -- Sweden (Northern Europe)
From: wolf@doppel.first.gmd.de (Wolfgang Koehler)
Newsgroups: rec.running
Subject: visit to Florida in February
Date: 24 Jan 93 23:01:35 GMT
Reply-To: wolf@first.gmd.de
Distribution: rec
Organization: GMD-FIRST, Berlin


My trainings companion asked me to post this querry for him.

He wants to visit Florida on his vacation in the last half of February.
He plans to rent a car there and travel through the contry.
Thats why, he wants some information about interesting places to see and
also hints for an inexperienced German that can't be found in an ordinary
guidebook are greatly appreciated.

He also would like to take part in running events if anyone could point 
him to some in this region at this time. (Everything between 5k and 25k is
his distance)

However, take care, his personal marathon record is 2:26 h...

Email to my email address is wellcome

Thanks

-------------------------------------------------------------------------
    ... always look on the bright side of life ... (Monty Python)
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
Wolfgang Koehler                               wolf@first.gmd.de
GMD-FIRST an der TU Berlin              German National Research Centre 
Tel. (Berlin 030/049) 6704-2650              for Computer Science



--
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
    ... always look on the bright side of life ... (Monty Python)
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
Wolfgang Koehler                               wolf@first.gmd.de
GMD-FIRST an der TU Berlin              German National Research Centre 
Tel. (Berlin 030/049) 6704-2650              for Computer Science



Newsgroups: rec.running
From: cfthb@ux1.cts.eiu.edu (Howard Black)
Subject: Re: Plantar Facitis (?sp)
Date: Fri, 22 Jan 1993 14:31:55 GMT
Organization: Eastern Illinois University

In article <1993Jan21.122928.10710@ncrcae.ColumbiaSC.NCR.COM> dougg@churchill.ColumbiaSC.NCR.COM (Doug.Gilliam) writes:
[wrt plantar fasciitis]

>When I do start back, I plan to start walking for a few days and then
>gradually begin joging at a very slow pace.  I would like to have some
>opinions from people whether they think it would be O.K. for me to
>start back very slowly now or whether I should wait for a while.  If I
>should wait, how will I know when it's O.K. to start back.  Should I
>wait until I can't feel anything in either foot?  Should I wait for
>another month after I can't feel anything in either foot?  Should I
>wait even longer?  Or, is it not that risky to start back running now
>given that I can just barely feel it in one foot?

    The thing about PF is that it is more a symptom than a primary injury;
that is, it results from some kind of biomechanical problem that, if not
corrected, will cause PF again.  You don't say if you have done anything in
addition to rest, but, if my and my many fellow PF-sufferers' experience
means something, I'd suggest stretching and orthotics as you recover.
    PF is most often caused by pronation, which in turn is usually the
result of poor flexibility, especially in the gastrocnemius and soleus
muscles.  Podiatrists usually suggest both orthotics and lots of
stretching.
    In my case (this month is the one-year anniversary of PF onset for me,
and I'm essentially completely recovered), I didn't stop running at all,
since I got orthotics right away.  But, my recovery didn't really progress
well until I got *serious* about stretching, esp. all of the rear leg
muscles.  Since PF usually doesn't hurt when you're actually running, it's
hard to use pain as a guide.  I would agree with "Lore of Running" in this
case that rest is seldom the best response to a running injury.  The right
orthotics can remove your pain instantly, and you can get back to running
right away.
    Good luck!
-- 
   ******************************************************************
     Howard Black                             cfthb@ux1.cts.eiu.edu
     Department of Chemistry                  Eastern Illinois Univ. 
Newsgroups: rec.running
From: berkery@emmax5crd.ge.com (jack berkery)
Subject: Re: running barefoot 
Reply-To: berkery@emmax5crd.ge.com (jack berkery)
Organization: GE Research Center
Date: Thu, 28 Jan 1993 21:21:53 GMT


As promised, here's something I wrote for our local club last June about
barefooting. 
-------------------------------------
It's the shoes, got to be the shoes.

Ain't it funny how all these foot problems became so prevalent after the
development of our "high-tech" foot wear? Actually, no, it ain't. But you
have to stop and think about maybe the cause and effect thing, don`t you?

I've read many articles by many very knowledgeable people on the subject
of how, maybe, our current designs of running shoes could be the culprit.
Some of the stories are tempered by the fact that the writers and editors
derive major chunks of their incomes from the shoe companies. Some of the
others seem to have an ax to grind vis-a-vis the greedy shoe companies,
perhaps being the ones who derive insufficient chunks of their income
from shoe sponsorships. Others point their fingers but can't seem to
arrive at solid conclusions. Is it is, or is it ain't da shoooos???

Feet hurt? Shoes are too soft, too rigid, too unstable, too supportive,
or something. Which is it? I don't know. They don't know. The shoe
companies ain't telling and they ain't funding any research which could
tell you either. So what to do then?

Strengthen the feet. The one thing most "experts" would agree on is that
our foot muscles are not nearly as strong after running in supportive and
cushioning shoes as when we once walked and ran au-natural. Running bare-
foot that is, from time to time would be helpful but I think we all might
realize it's not very practical, especially in winter.

So here's a set of exercises I got from Dr Russ Ebbetts, Schenectady
area Chiropractor and former head coach of Union Col. Track and Field. He
published it in the Hudson-Mohawk RRC newsmagazine a few months back and
he also lectured and demonstrated them at the recent TAC coaching school
here. Do them now and then. Oh, how about twice, perhaps three times a
week, and over many weeks and months they will go a long way to injury
prevention.

1) walk 20-30 yards on the outsides of the feet
2) walk 20-30 yards on the insides of the feet
3) walk 20-30 yards with feet toed inward
4) walk 20-30 yards with feet toed outwards
5) walk 20-30 yards on tippy-toes
6) walk 20-30 yards on you heels

It doesn't take much time. Don't do it fast, walk slowly. It isn't hard
to do. It's a simple procedure to remember. You can do it anywhere, any-
time. You'll look stupid doing it. But hey, it strengthens the feet and
stronger foot muscles will provide better stability than gel or air.  Trust
the body you were born with. It's built the way it is because millions of
years of evolution determined this to be the best configuration. So build
up your natural systems first and worry about high-tech second.  Strengthen
the feet.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Jack Berkery, Computer Scientist, GE Research, Schenectady NY
  berkery@crd.ge.com  "The Common Sense Coach"
Newsgroups: rec.running
From: PAPAI@kcgl1.eng.ohio-state.edu (Jonathan Papai)
Subject: Re: Presidental running (again)
Organization: The Ohio State University
Distribution: usa
Date: Thu, 28 Jan 1993 19:23:02 GMT

lorenzo@rintintin.Colorado.EDU (Eric Lorenzo) writes:
>2) Change his running clothes.  The other day they showed him
>running with either a black t-shirt that came down to his knees or he
>was wearing a black t-shirt and black shorts over a pair of normal grey
>sweatpants.  Goofy.  Though I couldn't picture him wearing tights.  And
>why doesn't Hilary join him?  She'd look good in a pair of tights :*)


Sure, Clinton was wearing tights the other day.  Had on those
silly shorts he wears with silver tights underneath.  Also a
long sleeve sweatshirt or Tee.  I think he'll be wearing
tights more in DC than in L.Rock, 'cause it's a little colder.

(I won't comment on Hillary in tights.)

-J.
Newsgroups: rec.running
From: stgprao@st.unocal.COM (Richard Ottolini)
Subject: Re: Presidental running (again)
Organization: Unocal Corporation
Distribution: usa
Date: Thu, 28 Jan 1993 15:34:10 GMT

In article <1993Jan28.143453.2002@cbfsb.cb.att.com> mlcx@cbnewsf.cb.att.com (mark.l.clark) writes:
>I was a little confused by this article looking at the subject
>and then reading the body of the article:
>
>Was President Clinton running or was he jogging?
>
>(I'm sorry, I couldn't resist, since I didn't see the report
Technically he was jogging by the definitions on this bboard.
I won't split hairs over this.
You could call a "stampede" too if you include the hoard
of guards, reporters and tagger-ons too :-)
>I wasn't sure if he was wearing a headband or walkman.
>
>just wondering,
>
>Mark
>
>


Newsgroups: rec.running
From: rmarshal@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (Rick Marshall)
Subject: Park Barner
Organization: The Ohio State University
Distribution: usa
Date: Mon, 25 Jan 1993 21:27:38 GMT


I haven't followed ultra running since the 70's, but the name I read
the most often at that time was Park Barner.  Now that I've started to
follow the LONG stuff again, I was curious about what happened to him.

Anyone know?
From: sd007b@uhura.cc.rochester.edu (Sunil Dixit)
Newsgroups: rec.running
Subject: Re: Minimum age for Marathon?
Date: 25 Jan 93 04:42:10 GMT
Organization: University of Rochester - Rochester, New York

In

>I ran my first marathon at age 16 on about 30-40 miles a week with my previous
>long run being 13 miles.  I ran relatively slow and walked the last couple of
>miles.  My next was at 17 on maybe 40-45 miles a week, but I raced.  I ran
>another 3 as an 18 year old, on about 60 a week.  In all cases, I didn't get
>hurt and recovered quickly.

>16 years later I managed to finally break that PR I set as an 18 year old.  I
>trained like hell for 4 months, 70-80 miles a week, and felt like something
>that the cat spit up for about 3 or 4 weeks after.

>Run 'em while you're young.

>-paulf


I don't know if I would agree with Paul here, Alison.  I'm 19, and have run
a marathon, which I trained extensively for (50 miles per week or so).  The
actual run wasn't too bad, it was the after effects.  Our bones, though
fully developed, haven't peaked in their strength yet, and won't for about
five or six years.  Besides, we're nowhere near our aerobic peak either,
which usually occurs around 28 to 30 years of age.  There's no need to push,
because we have plenty of time.  I've seen some really good middie runners
wrecked by pushing to hard and too fast on a huge and *unnecessary* run. 
One moron ran 30 miles in practice one day, and 20 miles the NEXT!  Tore all
sorts of important things, and can't run more than a mile now without
sweating from pain.  Anyway, I wouldn't recommend it.

Sunil Dixit
U of Rochester (sd007b@uhura.cc.rochester.edu)
  
Newsgroups: rec.running
From: quafster@ravel.udel.edu (Robert Bryan)
Subject: Heard in Emergency Room...
Summary: Humor
Organization: University of Delaware
Date: Tue, 26 Jan 1993 18:33:18 GMT


"Yes Mr. Bryan, and how did you break your leg?"
"Shatter."
"Sorry, how did you shatter your leg?"
"I fell."
"The MedEvac helicopter pilot noted that they had to fish you out of the
 freezing water of Big Elk Creek."
"I fell into the creek."
"The notes here say you fell down a 35 foot cliff and crushed your leg on an
 embankment."
"How long do you think I'll be off the road?"
"What's this about a twenty pound, seven foot long log you were carrying?"
"That's my quarterstaff."
"Mr. Bryan?"
"You know, a quarterstaff."
"Mr. Bryan, you fell over a cliff, hit an embankment, landed in freezing water,
 held on to your, uh, quarterstaff for over an hour to keep afloat, and were
 finally rescued by helicopter.  Would you care to explain to me how all this
 happened?"
"Sure, I tripped on a rock that was hidden under a leaf."
"A rock?"
"Under a leaf, how long will I be off the road?"
*sigh*
"Why were you out there running in the first place?"
"Training."
"Training for what, for God's sake?"
"Valhalla."
"Valhalla?"
"Never mind..."





-- 
Robert M. Bryan (quafster@bach.udel.edu)
295 Russell Road, Elkton, MD 21921  (410) 398-5488
"While I am alive, I will never stop fighting."
From: dolsen@bpavms.bpa.arizona.edu (David Olsen)
Newsgroups: rec.running
Subject: Re: Narrow width running shoes?
Date: 26 Jan 93 17:37:00 GMT
Organization: University of Arizona MIS Department
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41

In article <727992021.AA00000@blkcat.UUCP>, Henry.Halff@p932.f70.n109.z1.fidonet.org (Henry Halff) writes...
>On 1/22/93, robertson said the most wonderful thing to All about Narrow width
>running shoes?: 
> 
>  rn> I have narrow feet.  Can I buy running shoes in a narrow width?  Are
>  rn> there stores in the Southern California area that sell them?
>  rn> 
> 
>New Balance makes narrow shoes. Make sure you try on both the 600 and 900 series
>(at least). The former has a wider toebox. Any athletic shoe store in Northern
>California will carry New Balance. So does Nordstrom. You may have a hard time
>finding the narrow width, but it shouldn't be to hard to get a store to order
>them for you.

Better yet, when you buy them check out road runner sports.  Excellent
prices and the service and help is better than any running store I have
been to.

> 
>hh
Newsgroups: rec.running
Subject: RE: Beardsley Accident
From: dmika@charlie.usd.edu
Date: Fri, 22 Jan 1993 04:08:48 GMT
Reply-To: dmika@charlie.usd.edu
Organization: The University of South Dakota Computer Science Dept.

Thanks for the post.  The accident was up in Fargo, ND, and none of the 
newspapers down here (SD) seem to consider the story newsworthy since the
initial report.

Dan Mika
dmika@charlie.usd.edu