HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: owen@autodesk.com (D. Owen Rowley)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: Clinton may not issue Executive Order
Date: 21 Jan 93 21:43:40 GMT

In article <1993Jan21.145816.9913@dvorak.amd.com>, tdbear@dvorak.amd.com (Thomas D. Barrett) writes:
> In article<1993Jan21.051559.17154@ads.com>henry@ADS.COM (Henry Mensch) writes:
> >rwhite@jagat.uucp (Robert White) wrote: 
> >->Aparently Clinton (any president)
> >->can not touch the Uniform Code of Military (in)Justice, where sodomy
> >->will still be listed as a crime
> >changing the UCMJ requires an Act of Congress.  no big deal.

> Well it is such a big deal if they can't even recognize that even just
> our basic human and Constituitional rights are being trampled on and
> need protecting.  The mentality is, of course, that since we
> supposedly do something different in the bedroom (we all know that we
> don't do anything different... other than maybe a different sex
> partner than a het) 

Don't forget the difference between the average amount of time :-)

> we forfit all of our human and constitutional
> rights...NOT!

I think it's because ir-rationally based bigotry relys on the 
de-humanisation of the target in order to over come its ir-rationality.

They are human, we are other.
Therefore we do not really deserve the same rights as they.

> I heard on the Today show that "conduct" will play an important role
> in the exec order that Clinton WILL put into place ASAP.  I am hoping
> that it Immediately stops the millions spent in the witch-hunts, and
> starts the process to fully accept and recognize gays and lesbians in
> the military.  I think that the word "conduct" will come in to play to
> remove any doubt that this order DOES NOT excuse any act which is
> currently covered in the UCMJ, especially sexual misconduct while on
> duty and while on base (something the hets need to remember!).

well, heterosexuals are charged and convicted of sexual fraternisation.
However I suspect it is selectively enforced. the next step after
the coming reforms will be to make sure that the behavior staututes are
applied fairly and without prejudice. 


LUX ./. owen
--
D. Owen Rowley {uunet,fernwood,sun}!autodesk!owen, owen@autodesk.com
[ EU-PHORIA: A STATE OF WELL BEING ]
Euphoria is my natural state, I do what I enjoy and an abundance 
of all good fortune comes to me for it.
From: adolphso@mizar.usc.edu (adolphson)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: List of GLBO* Historical and Celebrity Figures  Part 3
Date: 26 Jan 1993 12:03:41 -0800
Organization: University of Southern California, Los Angeles, CA
NNTP-Posting-Host: mizar.usc.edu


What about Thomas Mann?  What about Klaus Mann?

Arne
From: lmann@vineland.pubs.stratus.com (Laurie Mann)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: Clinton is President, Bush is not even history
Date: 21 Jan 1993 17:47:59 GMT
Organization: Stratus Computer Inc, Marlboro MA
Reply-To: lmann@vineland.pubs.stratus.com
NNTP-Posting-Host: ansible.pubs.stratus.com

Rod Williams writes
>> mattm@apple.com (Matthew Melmon) writes:
>>the New York Times ridiculed the "Religious Left's" reaction to
>>certain members of the Presidential Party (dubbing it "beyond
>>Politically Correct - in fact, Painfully Correct"). 
>It was actually queer curmudgeon Fran Lebowitz who coined
>the "Religious Left" phrase.

Maybe it's time to bring back that good old '60s term, Jesus freaks!

** lmann@vineland.pubs.stratus.com (Internet) Laurie.Mann (GEnie) **
******      And now for something completely different...     ******
From: dauber@tattoo.mti.sgi.com (Jeff Dauber)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: MOTSS-oriented music?
Date: 25 Jan 93 23:46:29 GMT
Reply-To: dauber@tattoo.mti.sgi.com (Jeff Dauber)
Organization: sgi
NNTP-Posting-Host: tattoo.mti.sgi.com

In article <1993Jan25.223214.4615@netcom.com>, solovay@netcom.com (Andrew Solovay) writes:
|> In article <1993Jan23.085540.12922@fuug.fi> an6245@anon.penet.fi (Nobody in particular...) writes:
|> A lot of Bowie (esp. '70s Bowie). In particular, "The Jean Genie"
|> (which I believe is a song about a hustler, but I could be wrong), and
|> much/most of the "Ziggy Stardust" album.

Really????? Having listened to Ziggy more times than the average fag,
I would say that there is almost nothing on Ziggy about being queer...

For queer Bowie, you need to listen to _The Man Who Sold The World_
which has at least one song with nearly explicit gay sex in it...



FWA
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: henry@ADS.COM (Henry Mensch)
Subject: Re: Answer your phone, Bill!
Organization: Advanced Decision Systems; a div of Booz, Allen & Hamilton
Date: Thu, 28 Jan 1993 07:40:17 GMT

lmeissne@carson.u.washington.edu (Loren Meissner) wrote: 
->This["Gays in the military"]
-> isn't that "urgent."

sez you.  have you been paying attention lately?  there was work going
on to attach a rider to the family leave bill which would overturn any
executive order on the ban.  that would not be a good thing.

--
# henry mensch / booz, allen & hamilton, inc.  / <henry@ads.com>
# "fight the real enemy."  -- sinead o'connor, and many others.
From: twpierce@unix.amherst.edu (Tim Pierce)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: Congressional Contacts on Military Unban?
Date: 27 Jan 93 07:47:49 GMT
Organization: Elitist Usenet Administrators, Stuff and Nonsense Division

In article <1993Jan26.152523.17237@news.columbia.edu> jsb16@cunixa.cc.columbia.edu (Jennifer S Broekman) writes:

>State                 Senator                Phone        Fax
>--------------------------------------------------------------
>Massachusetts         Kennedy                 4543        2417
>                      Kerry                   2742

You know, I honestly wish I didn't live in Massachusetts.  I might
actually be able to make a difference for my state.

-- 
____ Tim Pierce                / 
\  / twpierce@unix.amherst.edu /               Rocks say goodbye.
 \/ (BITnet: TWPIERCE@AMHERST) / 
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: crombie@iisat.alt.ns.ca
Subject: Re: Deep Space Nine: Queer Kardassians?
Organization: Public Access UNIX
Date: Thu, 21 Jan 1993 17:53:50 GMT

In article <1993Jan20.173559.5449@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu>, dbrownfi@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (Doug Brownfield) writes:
> I don't know...he reminds me of alot of guys I see every time I go out...
> pretty, over-reactive, and not too bright.

You thought the Kardiassian was pretty?!! Heavens, what bars do YOU
hang out in?

-- 
Kevin Crombie		Public Access Unix
UUCP:  {dalcs,ulowell}!iisat!crombie
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: rhayden@oracle.com (Ronald Hayden)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: television:  _I'll Fly Away_
Date: 26 Jan 93 01:45:52 GMT
Distribution: soc
Organization: Oracle Corporation, Belmont, Ca.
X-Disclaimer: This message was written by an unauthenticated user
              at Oracle Corporation.  The opinions expressed are those
              of the user and not necessarily those of Oracle.

In article <TIM.93Jan13181820@ear-ache.mit.edu> tim@ear-ache.mit.edu (Tim Wilson) writes:

   Has anyone out there followed this show more closely, and could they
   please fill me in on how explicit the coach's sexual orientation has
   been made, other interactions with the young man I've surely missed,
   and what's happened since?  My reading of it has been that the young
   man is gay, the coach is gay, and that the coach's friends were all
   gay.  However, because of the late-50s, early-60s setting, there's no
   language to describe those situations, if they're the case.  

I haven't seen all the episodes yet, but from what I've seen (up to
the father (almost) assaulting the coach and the coach being nice to
the kid's mother), here's my take:

The coach is gay (this has been hinted at since the beginning -- his
fascination with Greeks, and a number of other subtle things), but the
kid is not, at least not out to anyone, including himself.
--

  - Ronald Hayden

    ----------------------------------------------------------------
   | Documentation Manager, Oracle Toolkit Group                    |
   | Co-chair of Oracle Lambda, Oracle's Gay/Lesbian/Bisexual group |
   | Writer, magician, and various other things                     |
    ----------------------------------------------------------------
Newsgroups: soc.motss,soc.bi
From: sa121@cl.cam.ac.uk (S. Arrowsmith)
Subject: Re: Gay soda! I'm so excited!
Reply-To: SA121@phx.cam.ac.uk
Organization: Glad to be Sad
Date: Thu, 21 Jan 1993 11:39:21 GMT

In article <1jljjdINN8td@morrow.stanford.edu> alpha@w6yx.Stanford.EDU (Alpha Schram) writes:
>   BTW, not surprised to see that those UK'ers find it odd to drink cold
>   coffee--they find it odd to drink ANY coffee.  I wouldn't call the
>   muddy instant stuff they serve over there coffee.  Nearly KILLED me,
>   ya tea swillin' Brits! ;-P
>
Ah, the true separation between our countries lies not in language, but
in what we drink -- typical American attitude to tea that.  A friend,
emigrating to San Diego recently, had a wonderful time trying to convince
US customs to let her take in several pounds of good quality tea, she
knowing perfectly well that there was no chance of getting any once out
there....

--
\S
SA121@phx.cam.ac.uk | "Internet is so big, so powerful and pointless that for
        ___         |  some people it is a complete substitute for life."
        \X/         |     -- Andrew Brown, The Independent
From: milr@quads.uchicago.edu (mark ryan miller)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: finding each other at MOW... an idea
Date: 27 Jan 93 11:09:35 GMT
Reply-To: milr@midway.uchicago.edu
Distribution: usa
Organization: University of Chicago

In article <1993Jan27.045156.11301@spdcc.com> urso@spdcc.com (Stephen Chappell) writes:
>It was mentioned a while back that motssfolk going to the March
>on Washington should get together at some point.  The question
>was raised as to how we could find each other.
> 

Well I've just started thinking of getting my boyfriend to go
with me, but don't know if he has much vacation time.  I've 
been hearing that "get your rooms now" and of how crowded it's
going to be, so am wondering if I should bother going.
But, I've never been to something like this, and I was out
before my boyfriend was.

Any suggestions?? Maybe someone could send me the list of GLBO travel
agencies again??

--Mark
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: alpha@w6yx.Stanford.EDU (Alpha Schram)
Newsgroups: soc.motss,soc.bi
Subject: Re: Gay soda! I'm so excited!
Date: 21 Jan 1993 20:07:58 GMT
Organization: Stanford University Amateur Radio Club, California USA
NNTP-Posting-Host: w6yx.stanford.edu

In article <1993Jan21.160816.26950@osf.org> coren@speed.osf.org (Robert Coren) writes:
>
>(2) since it is now undrinkable for bitterness, add a small quantity
>of cold milk;
>
AND you MUST pour the milk BEFORE the tea, or you are REALLY a heathen!
(and if you, like me, don't take milk with your tea, you must be some sort
of savage) 

Alpha
I can't believe I am still in this thread



-- 
Alpha Schram	alpha@w6yx.stanford.edu*"My legs are getting so they don't
1974 CB360 (Sexy Sadie)		       * percolate so well anymore!"
"It's not a big motorcycle,	       *       --my grandmother, 13.Jan.93
just a groovy little motorbike..."     *---------ROMANI ITE DOMUM---------
From: mattm@apple.com (Matthew Melmon)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: Are Gay Men Richer, Really?
Date: 28 Jan 93 17:41:25 GMT
Followup-To: soc.motss
Organization: Apple Computer, Inc.

In article <1993Jan26.200906.23519@spdcc.com>, dyer@spdcc.com (Steve Dyer)
wrote:

> Yeah, I just _loooved_ his comments on gay men who like sex.
> The little fucker was a real stitch.  Doesn't this moron know
> that he's among people for whom this isn't an abstract matter?

After sixty-plus posts singing the praises of something that
happened in the (just barely) Post-Mediavel period, I was 
beginning to get that idea.  In addition to the political crap,
however, my recent postings involved: Vanity Fair, several on
Marky Mark, an initially pleasant string on Wil Wheaton that
_your_ fucking crowd *had* to get in on, standard sparing with
Dolphie over movie stars, something on a Federal Express hunk,
Hoover Tower, a perfectly reasonable follow-up to a *Jess*
*Anderson* post (this very thread, in fact), another perfectly
reasonable *defense* of Clinton, and some pleasant banter with
Michael Thomas on Northern vs. Southern California.

YOU, on the other had, are nothing but political crap, and
whining about how unpleasant other people are.  

*X*
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: jbeason@s.psych.uiuc.edu (Joseph E. Beason)
Subject: Re: Sexual harassment from queers
Organization: UIUC Department of Psychology
Date: Mon, 25 Jan 1993 02:20:35 GMT

We don't talk about it because it looks bad; for the same reason we don't talk
about domestic violence in same-sex couples, same-sex rape amongst openly gay/
les/bi folk, alcoholism in the community, etc.  We also have fewer protections
than hets do, especially if we're not out.  How does a closeted gay man 
get help when another guy harasses him?  How does a battered lesbian cope 
when a police and judicial system that is often hostile to het women dismiss
her completely, especially since even those few laws that do exist on these
topics are very, if not completely, for heterosexuals.

I'm not sure what avenues are available.  One of my mentors is very active in
rsaerch and litigation around sexual harassment issues.  If you'd like, I
can try to put you in touch with her.

Joe
From: lmeissne@carson.u.washington.edu (Loren Meissner)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: Answer your phone, Bill!
Date: 27 Jan 1993 21:52:56 GMT
Organization: University of Washington, Seattle
NNTP-Posting-Host: carson.u.washington.edu

In article <1993Jan27.204942.6731@PacBell.COM> rjwill6@pbsdts.sdcrc.pacbell.com (Rod Williams) writes:
>
>Geez, I've been calling the White House number all day
>(thank Technology for redial buttons!) and get busy every
>time...
>
This ISN'T a flame, but....
What about using the old-fashioned snail-mail
(U.S. Postal Service)?
Last Sunday, I typed out my message to Clinton and the 
Senators from my state and my Congressional Representative,
printed four copies on my computer, put each in an envelope
with a queer-pink Elvis stamp and put in the letterbox.
I'm sure they're in DC by now, and will be delivered today
or tomorrow. 
Call your local library or look in the World Almanac for
the addresses. Don't let jammed phone lines or high l.d. rates stop you.
This["Gays in the military"]
 isn't that "urgent." Its been going on for years. A letter
will get to DC from just about anywhere in the 48 states in about 3
days (Seattle is about as far as you can get from DC in the 48 states,
and it takes 3 days from here).
Perhaps a letter CAN be the "appropriate technology" in this case...
From: news@plts.uucp
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: Initiative Petition Procedures by State
Date: 23 Jan 1993 11:30:13 -0500
Organization: P.L.T.S., North Plainfield, New Jersey, USA
Distribution: na
NNTP-Posting-Host: plts.uucp

In <C0z5t3.3v7@agora.rain.com> bcapps@agora.rain.com (Brent Capps) writes:

>OK, here's some material we turned up that describes how to amend
>state constitutions.  Not every state has an initiative petition
>process.  See how vulnerable your own situation is...

>State         Number of sigs required      distribution      votes needed
>                                           of signatures     to pass
>-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
>Arizona       15% of total votes cast      none specified    majority vote
[... list deleted ...]

Well, I'm all for truth, justice, and the 'merican way, but...



THANK GOD MY STATE DOESN'T HAVE INITITIVE AND REFERENDUM!!!!

Tom
From: alan@osf.org (Alan Hamilton)
Subject: Re: Domestic Parnters
Organization: Open Software Foundation
Date: Wed, 27 Jan 1993 19:13:46 GMT

The ordinance under consideration in Boston, Massachusetts, US, does
not specify sexual orientation.  It simply says that any two people
who share responsibility for one another's welfare may register as a
couple and any combination of adults and (optional) minors in which
the adults take responsibility for the welfare of all the adults and
minors may register as a family.

Couples who have registered or who are believed to fall under the
guideline of "taking responsibility for one another's welfare" would
have the same status and rights as married couples, to the extent that
the city can ensure that (mostly visitation rights in medical and
prison facilities.)

Families who have registered or who are believed to fall under the
guideline of "taking responsibility for one another's welfare" would
have the same status and rights as nuclear families, to the extent
that the city can ensure that (again, mostly visitation rights in
medical and prison facilities.)

The only mention of sexual orientation is including "sexual
orientation" (NOT "Gay and Lesbian") in the city's human rights
ordinance list of groups enumerated as frequently discriminated
against, which the city specifically prohibits discrimination against.

 -Alan
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: mhr@hpuerca.atl.hp.com (Mike Reaser)
Subject: Re: Audrey
Date: Mon, 25 Jan 1993 21:57:02 GMT
Organization: a stone mountain of Kudzu

In <1k1k5dINNh1m@mizar.usc.edu> adolphso@mizar.usc.edu (adolphson) writes:

>In article <mattm-250193092258@mcmelmon.apple.com> 
>mattm@apple.com (Matthew Melmon) writes:
>> In article <1jr4iqINNdhv@mizar.usc.edu>, 
>> adolphso@mizar.usc.edu (adolphson) wrote:
>> > Oh.  I just never think "great actress" and "Katharine Hepburn"
>> > at the same time.  "Great movie star", yes, but not "great
>> > actress".
>>
>> This may be terribly subjective - and a reflection of political
>> prowess - but tell me, Dolphie... Which actress has the greatest
>> number of Academy Awards?

>What, may I ask, do Academy Awards have to do with great
>acting?  For that matter, what do Academy Awards have to
>do with any kind of acting?

But Arne, just remember some of the greatest film actors of all time:

Mongomery Clift.
Alan Ladd.
Marilyn Monroe.
Thelma Ritter.
Charlie Chaplin.
Judy Garland.
Elsa Lancaster (Lanchester? You know, Charles Laughton's wife).
W.C. Fields.
Mae West.
Buster Keaton.
Carole Lombard.
Richard Burton.
Peter O'Toole.
Lana Turner.
Frank Morgan.
Rosalind Russell.
Jean Simmons.
Peter Sellers.
Barbara Stanwyck.

And how many competitive, non-honorary Oscars, in total, did these 
performers win as a group?

Zero.

All of the appeared in films eligible for Academy Award consideration,
and in fact several were nominated multiple times -- Thelma Ritter,
for example, was nominated four (or possibly five, I'm going from
memory) years in a row in the early 1950's -- but _NONE_ of them ever
was awarded that little statue "with no genitalia" (as Dustin Hoffman
declared when he won for _Kramer vs. Kramer_).

I think most (if not all) of these are widely acknowledged as legends
of film art.

So _OF COURSE_ a multiple winner of Oscars must be a "great actress".

Or, possibly as you stated Arne, a "great movie star", as were Bogart,
Ingrid Bergman, and Clark Gable.

--
=======================================================================
 Mike Reaser, Hewlett-Packard N. Amer. Response Center - Atlanta
 Internet:  mhr@hpuerca.atl.hp.com
 NBCS: B5 f t w g+ k s              I barely speak for myself, so
 #include <standard.disclaimer>       don't make me speak for HP
=======================================================================
From: owen@autodesk.com (D. Owen Rowley)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: Glendale
Date: 21 Jan 93 18:43:38 GMT

In article <1993Jan21.013942.11437@netcom.com>, dosbears@netcom.com (David R. Preston) writes:
> 
> Dick's, the last (as far as I know) straight bar anywhere near the
> Castro, is now Jackhammer -- apparently a bar for construction workers and
> their admirers :-)

I understand that Herb Caen commened that they should have kept the name :-)

anyway, that desperately need a real sound system in there.
It need not be run at top volume, if the idea is to allow for conversation,
but thats no excuse for the poor fidelity that they have now.

The humorous treatment of chicken wire that they use as a DJ booth
is entertaining too :-)


LUX ./. owen
--
D. Owen Rowley {uunet,fernwood,sun}!autodesk!owen, owen@autodesk.com
[ EU-PHORIA: A STATE OF WELL BEING ]
Euphoria is my natural state, I do what I enjoy and an abundance 
of all good fortune comes to me for it.
From: kfj@hpuerca.atl.hp.com (Kirk Johanning)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: MOTSS-Oriented Music, Part II
Date: 25 Jan 93 20:51:28 GMT
Article-I.D.: hpuerca.C1FGLt.1pA
Organization: HP Response Center Atlanta

In <1993Jan25.060407.10785@fuug.fi> an6245@anon.penet.fi (Nobody in particular...) writes:

>In my earlier post asking about MOTSS-oriented music, I didn't specify
>very clearly what I meant by "MOTSS-oriented."

>Specifically, what I'm looking for are songs which contain lyrics that are
>obviously MOTSS-oriented.  Songs by artists who are rumored to be gay,
>especially if that rumor is only in the "homosexual community" (I use 
>that phrase because I don't know of any other), are not really what
>I'm looking for.

>The examples I posted earlier ("Hideaway" and "Gimme, Gimme, Gimme") are
>good examples.  

I do not think that "Gimme, Gimme, Gimme" is really that good of an
example as it is really a remake of a song by ABBA, where the singers
in the group where women.  Unless you think that a song, originally
from a woman's point of view, remade and sung by a male, makes it
MOTSS-oriented.

Although I do not have a title at hand but there are some songs by 
The Smiths that are MOTSS-oriented.  Also check out songs by The
Communards and Jimmy Somerville (former leadsinger of The Communards).

>Thanks again in advance.

You're welcome.
-- 
______  Kirk Johanning              ______  The opinions expressed above  ______
\    /  Hewlett-Packard             \    /  are mine and may not reflect  \    /
 \  /   Response Center - Atlanta    \  /   those my employer or anybody   \  /
  \/    kfj@hpuerca.atl.hp.com        \/    else for that matter.           \/ 
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: entropy@world.std.com (The Entropic one)
Subject: CALL NOW...
Organization: The World Public Access UNIX, Brookline, MA
Date: Wed, 27 Jan 1993 04:11:42 GMT

Just a reminder, CALL CALL CALL

If you skipped all the phone numbers go back and read them again :)

-- 
------  Linux, Religion, and electronic shopping all in one place!
\    / Repent of Bean eating, MS-DOS, OS/2, and windows NT, no sales man
 \  / will hassle you, no priest will sacrifice you. Free 9600 baud download.
  \/ Call the Virtual World Information Systems BBS at 508-793-9568        
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: john@drummond.demon.co.uk (John Fisher)
Subject: Re: Tim Chain Porn (Re: High School Athletes (lusher))
Reply-To: john@drummond.demon.co.uk
Distribution: world
X-Mailer: cppnews $Revision: 1.20 $
Organization: not
Date: Sat, 23 Jan 1993 12:55:19 +0000

In article <1993Jan22.041513.5562@tc.cornell.edu> shore@dinah.tc.cornell.edu (Melinda Shore) writes:

> HAH!  When I was first started programming, 
> [...]
> programmers
> punched up object decks directly - none of this assembler
> mnemonic wimp nonsense.
> 
> Kids.  Sigh.

When I were a lad, we used to program computers by tapping
on the side of the mercury delay lines with a pencil.  

Punching object decks?  We'd have *killed* for a handpunch.
They were for rich folks.

But if you told young people that today, they wouldn't
believe you... 

--John
Newsgroups: soc.motss