HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: paul@enuxha.eas.asu.edu (Greg Paul)
Subject: Re: Big 11 Recruits - 1992
Followup-To: rec.sport.basketball.college
Reply-To: paul@enuxha.eas.asu.edu (Greg Paul)
Organization: Arizona State University, College of Engineering
Date: Wed, 29 Jul 1992 05:42:32 GMT

In article <1992Jul27.225821.4391@uwm.edu> paul@csd4.csd.uwm.edu (Paul R Krueger) writes:
>
> p.s. Hey all you Wolverine fans...Next to Chris Webber, UW's Michael
> Finley is the best soph. in the Big 11! Remember him? The guy that
> dominated the game in which the Badgers slaughtered the Fab Five and
> friends by about 18 points in celebration of the firing of Steve Yoder!
> Also Tracy Webster will be schooling Jalen Rose for the next two years
> since he has a coach (Stu Jackson) that will let him run. Our supporting
> cast might suck, and hell, our record probably will too ;), but in the
> immortal words of Bob Dylan, The times they are a changin'!!
>

    I dunno.  I would still give Shawn Respert of MSU or Jalen Rose of UM
a strong vote as sophomores.


--
========================== Will be President for food ==========================
Greg Paul  (Mouser)		  |  paul@enuxha.eas.asu.edu  GO SPARTANS!!
MSCS student, Insight technician  |     Triangle Fraternity
____________ "My words but a whisper, your deafness a shout..." -JT ____________
From: rsmith@strobe.ATC.Olivetti.Com (Russ Smith)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.basketball.college
Subject: Re: Prop 48...
Date: 28 Jul 92 14:50:38 GMT
Organization: Olivetti ATC; Cupertino CA, USA

In article <1992Jul28.90856.26106@ms.uky.edu> fehr@ms.uky.edu (Jeff Davis) writes:
>The explanations given for Prop 48, although couched in higher
>toned language than that, don't strike me as much better than
>"taller men make better doctors."

Except that height and foot size are inherited genetic traits(unless you
use human growth hormones) and the standards of Prop 48 are not. You
do have a say in whether or not you qualify under Prop 48, you don't
have any chance to change your height and foot size.
>Jeff Davis <davis@keats.ca.uky.edu> Older than before.




Russ Smith
*******************************************************************************
"Mellow is the man, who knows what he's been missing
many, many men can't see the open road".
                                    Over the hills and far away- Led Zeppelin  
******************************************************************************




Newsgroups: rec.sport.basketball.college
From: foerster@zman.rtp.dg.com (Mike Von Foerster)
Subject: Re: Corny McNary
Date: Mon, 27 Jul 92 13:27:55 GMT
Distribution: usa
Reply-To: foerster@dg-rtp.dg.com
Organization: Data General Corp., Research Triangle Park, NC

In article <23JUL199214210185@pierre.mit.edu>, kettler@pierre.mit.edu (KETTLER, THOMAS R.) writes:
|> In article <1992Jul22.111929.27393@dg-rtp.dg.com>, foerster@dg-rtp.dg.com                      writes...
|> >In article <19104@ector.cs.purdue.edu>, sjc@cs.purdue.EDU (Steve Chapin) writes:
|> > 
|> >You really think Michigan is that good???. All the pressure, all the focus will 
|> >be on Michigan. Additionally, other than Northwestern, there's no apparent weak
|> >sisters in the Big Ten er, 11 this year. I'm not sure Michigan is ready to be 
|> >that consistent yet. I guess we'll find out soon enough.
|> > 
|> > 
|> >Michael von Foerster           Internet: foerster@dg-rtp.dg.com
|> >DG/UX Core Development         UUCP:     {world}!mcnc!rti!dg-rtp!foerster
|> >Data General Corporation
|> >62 T.W. Alexander Drive
|> >RTP, NC. 27709                 Phone:    919-248-6327
|> 
|> Michael, I take offense. As a Northwestern alumnus, the men's team would be 
|> very good this year if half of the team did not transfer after the 1989-90 
|> season. After all, Rex Walters of Kansas started out at NU amongst others. If 
|> they stayed, then the second division of the Big Ten would not have been 
|> impossible. Plus, I don't think Penn State's team shall do very well this year, 
|> either.
|> 
|> 					Sincerely yours,
|> 
|> 					Thomas R. Kettler "Big Ten Fanatic"

With regards to Northwestern bball, i'm talking about reality and you're talking 
about history.  Rex Walters is a very good student that happened to be a 
good basketball player. He realized he couldn't achieve both of his goals at 
Northwestern.

I will not knock the fine academics at Northwestern. It is one of the best. However,
in terms of athletics completition though, it should drop out of the Big Ten.
They are a joke. I'd love nothing more than to have Northwestern win the Big
Ten in football or basketball. I'd even root for them over IU, but it just isn't
going to happen. 

I'm also not knocking the school's priorities but the school should
put itself in a position to win something other than the competition for last 
place.

This past year, the men's programs finished dead last in overall sports championships.
10th in Basketball, 10 in baseball, tied for 8th in football, etc. You're best finish
was 3rd in Tennis and 6th in soccer. The women's programs didn't fair much better 
finishing 9th overall. Combined men's and women's athletics saw Northwestern 
finish 11th.

I stand by my earlier statement that Northwestern will probably again pull up the 
rear in the Big Ten. As for Penn State, you didn't hear me mention anything about 
them in the above article did you? 

-- 

Michael von Foerster           Internet: foerster@dg-rtp.dg.com
DG/UX Core Development         UUCP:     {world}!mcnc!rti!dg-rtp!foerster
Data General Corporation
62 T.W. Alexander Drive
RTP, NC. 27709                 Phone:    919-248-6327
From: saunders@luther.che.wisc.edu (Brian E. Saunders)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.basketball.college
Subject: Re: A Look Ahead at the ACC: Georgia Tech
Date: 23 Jul 92 03:01:42 GMT
Organization: University of Wisconsin - Madison

In article <1992Jul23.022953.26317@talon.ucs.orst.edu> navarrer@bionette.CGRB.ORST.EDU (Roy Navarre) writes:
>...............

Oh, no!  He's back...............
-- 

Brian E. Saunders			saunders@luther.che.wisc.edu
Organization: Penn State University
Date: Mon, 27 Jul 1992 08:25:59 EDT
From: <KRB104@psuvm.psu.edu>
Newsgroups: rec.sport.basketball.college
Subject: SAT's and achievement!

  Let me first tell you my background, I am a Sociologist, who has done a lot
of research in the area of race and education.  I am also a former Division I
college basketball player, Black, with degrees in chemical engineering and
Sociology.  In the research that I have read and the research that I have done,
there is NO CORRELATION BETWEEN SAT SCORES AND COLLEGE ACHIEVEMENT.  A better
predictor seems to be class rank and SES (socio-economic status).  High school
GPA is a predictor, but a weak one.  That is what bothers me about Prop 48, it
is not based on any means of fact.  The SAT is a culturally biased test (the
verbal portion is), as are standardized tests.  For instance, and I have used
this example in conferences and on this network, my 6 year old cousin was not
deemed ready for 1st grade, even though she can read better than most 10 year
olds, simply because she didn't understand the relationship between bacon and
a pig.  In her household they have NEVER had pork, she had no reason to know
this.  It is horrible that "educators" base someone's intelligence on such a
stupid basis, but it happens, especially for minority children and teenagers.
Charles Barkley, who no matter what you think of him you cannot say that he
isn't intelligent, scored below 700 on the SAT's.  Patrick Ewing scored below
700 and was able to legitimately obtain his degree from G'town.  Rumeal
Robinson was a Prop 48 case and obtained his degree from Michigan.  If the NCAA
is going to have Prop 48, they should at least give the students an extra'
year of eligibility (a 4th year, they only have 3 years as of now).  Why
penalize them twice.  It makes no logical sense to do what they are currently
doing.  Of course, the statistical "facts" I give above are not written in
concrete, but as I said, I have never seen a study where SAT is a good
predictor of collegiate success, and I have read over 1000 studies in the area
of collegiate education.  If anyone knows of such a study let me know.
Kevin
Newsgroups: rec.sport.basketball.college
From: markham@brtph600.bnr.ca (Andrew Markham P205)
Subject: Re: BAD News for Arkansas and UMass fans
Organization: Bell Northern Research Inc.
Date: Thu, 23 Jul 1992 16:27:58 GMT

In article <14104@borg.cs.unc.edu> brawn@hatteras.cs.unc.edu (Andy Brawn) writes:
>In article <1992Jul23.120451.6685@brtph560.bnr.ca> markham@brtph600.bnr.ca (Andrew Markham P205) writes:
>>>                                                        
>>
>>For example, it is my understanding that UNC is willing to have
>>one borderline student/athlete on the team.  I think J.R. Reid was one 
>
>Sorry, Andrew, Wrong, JR was an honor student in H.S. and from all reports
>a very good student here at UNC.

Oh well, there goes my theory.  My brother's roommate had French with Reid
and said he was a bonehead for all intents and purposes.

-- 
|_ o_O              Andrew W. Markham (markham@bnr.ca)
|W   |\               Bell Northern Research, Inc.              _        O
|   / \                       Heels in 93!                     / |_      |\
|        before...            Bulls in 93!           after... |   W  o  /|
Newsgroups: rec.sport.basketball.college
From: oday@lobster.gsfc.nasa.gov  (Orin Day)
Subject: Re: BAD News for Arkansas and UMass fans
Reply-To: oday@lobster.gsfc.nasa.gov  (Orin Day)
Organization: Goddard Space Flight Center
Date: Thu, 23 Jul 1992 16:17:49 GMT

In article <1992Jul23.131633.1054@rti.rti.org> wgr@rti.rti.org writes:
> I don't know how highly regarded UMass is, but I'm sure it's not an elite,
> nationally-recognized academic powerhouse like the University of Georgia.
> 
> You're paying way too much attention to SAT scores.  Plenty of people who
> make marginal scores on standardized tests make excellent high school 
> grades, and go on to do very well in college.
> 
> If I'm not mistaken, Rumeal Robinson had to sit out a year because
> of Prop 48, then ended up graduating with a pretty good GPA from
> Michigan.  Considering how his NBA career is going, I'm sure he's
> glad he got his degree.

There are always academic exceptions that fail out of college, but
also ones that do well - one such example is Gene Banks, who Bill
Foster decided was bright enough to survive academically at Duke
despite a poor previous record (and long before Prop 48).  Banks
didn't have the grades, much less the SAT scores, but survived and
graduated.

Orin

--
*********** "The NeXT is dead!  Long live the NeXT!" *************
Orin Day, Code 664.1                    oday@lobster.gsfc.nasa.gov
Hughes STX/NASA       GSFC Laboratory for High Energy Astrophysics
******* Think that this is NASA's opinion?  NO, NO, NO!!!" *******
Newsgroups: rec.sport.basketball.college
From: kettler@pierre.mit.edu (KETTLER, THOMAS R.)
Subject: Re: TOSU Buckeyes 1992-93 Schedule
Summary: Can you say cream puffs?
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.4-b1  
Keywords:                     TOSU Buckeyes
Organization: MIT Lab for Nuclear Science
Date: Thu, 23 Jul 1992 19:01:00 GMT

In article <1992Jul18.140249.17382@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu>, gchism@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (Grady W C writes...
>The Bucks schedule is finally released.  With Penn State now in the Big11, we
>dropped Northwestern at home and the game at Minnesota. Score another cream
>puff.  For all the Tarheel fans, I would guess that there will be a substantial
>Tnumber of faculty and student tickets available for private sale. The
>pre-Big10 schedule has not always drawn well.  Almost all of the undergrads
>will been out of class for two weeks and many of the faculty will be out of
>town as well.  It is not unusual to see a pair of seats sit empty for the
>entire pre-Big10 .
>OSU BUCKEYES 1992-93 BASKETBALL
>Nov. 17   Lafayette Hustlers (ex)
>Nov. 24   Russian National Team (ex)
>Dec. 1    Ohio University
>Dec.5     Southern California
>Dec. 12   Bowling Green
>Dec.19    at West Virginia
>Dec.22    North Carolina
>Dec.28-29  Far West Classic (Oregon State, Brigham Young, Oregon)
>Jan.2     Illinois-Chicago
>Jan.5    at Penn State
>Jan.9     Iowa
>Jan.13    Michigan State
>Jan.20    at Wisconsin
>Jan.24    at Indiana
>Jan.26    at Michigan
>Jan30.    Illinois
>Feb.3     Purdue
>Feb.10    at Northwestern
>Feb.13    at Michigan State
>Feb.16    at Iowa
>Feb.20    Wisconsin
>Feb.23    at indiana
>Feb.28    Michigan
>Mar. 6    at Illinois
>Mar.10    Minnesota
>Mar.13(14)    Purdue
>-- 
>Grady W. Chism                     Email:gchism@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu
>Dept. of Food Science and Tech.    Voice:614-292-7719
>Ohio State University              FAX:614-292-0218
>2121 Fyffe Road, Columbus, OH 43210

Speaking as a Northwestern University alumnus, this schedule can't be right. 
After all, Bethune-Cookman is not on the list. d::-)

BTW, does anyone know if the Big Ten has officially changed its name to the Big 
Eleven?

					Sincerely yours,

					Thomas R. Kettler "Big Ten Fanatic"
From: gritter@cs.purdue.EDU (Carl R. Gritter)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.basketball.college
Subject: Re: Big 11 Recruits - 1992
Date: 28 Jul 92 17:12:31 GMT
Organization: Department of Computer Science, Purdue University

In article  <Bs3snL.Gqz@ux1.cso.uiuc.edu> peppler@ux1.cso.uiuc.edu (Randy Peppler) writes:
>>>6. Purdue             Justin Jennings   6'6"   Grand Rapids, MI
>>>                      Porter Roberts    6'3"   Chattanooga, TN
>>>                      Scott Colonna     6'1"   Staten Island, NY
>>>                      Glenn Robinson    6'9"   PROP 48
>
>--------------------->  KENNY WILLIAMS    6'9"   JUCO

This list is still not complete because the original posting claimed
to include all red-shirt freshmen.  Thus the Purdue list should
include:

			 Herb Dove	   6'4"   REDSHIRT
			 Todd Foster	   6'2"   REDSHIRT

Expect Herb Dove to play quite a bit this year, he supposedly is a
quite an athlete (as well as a great student) and a better defensive
player the Cuonzo Martin.  Todd Foster looks like another slow jump
shooter.

Also expect Colonna and possibly Jennings (or else possibly Brandon
Brantley) to redshirt this year.

Carl
From: morgan@ms.uky.edu (Wes Morgan)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.basketball.college
Subject: Re: BAD News for Arkansas and UMass fans
Date: 24 Jul 92 12:52:04 GMT
Organization: The Puzzle Palace, UKentucky

In article <92204.073715KRB104@psuvm.psu.edu> <KRB104@psuvm.psu.edu> writes:
>   Both of the Baltimore Dunbar High School superstars failed to score 700
>on the SAT's and will not be eligible to play next season. 
>[ ... ]
>Donta 
>Bright will be heading to UMass and will sit out this season.  He said that
>he made his decision and will live with the consequences.

Bright's reaction to his SAT problem has been impressive.  I've seen dozens
of "blue chip" signees bolt for a junior college after failing to meet the
NCAA's requirements; I'm glad to see one of the 'young guns' sticking by his
decisions and accepting equal responsibility for both success and failure.

-- 
 morgan@ms.uky.edu    |Wes Morgan, not speaking for|                MORGAN@UKCC 
 morgan@engr.uky.edu  |the University of Kentucky's|     ....!ukma!ukecc!morgan
 morgan@ie.pa.uky.edu |Engineering Computing Center| morgan@wuarchive.wustl.edu
     Mailing list for AT&T StarServer S/E - starserver-request@engr.uky.edu
Newsgroups: rec.sport.basketball.college
From: fehr@ms.uky.edu (Jeff Davis)
Subject: Re: Prop 48...
Date: Mon, 27 Jul 1992 21:22:54 GMT
Organization: Loose Affiliation of Millionaires and Billionaires and Baby

Russ Smith writes:
>>
>>This is a very good point which needed to be made, the SAT does not purport
>>to measure "intelligence", only the aptitude of a potential college student
>>to perform in college. Some people can't take tests, this makes them score
>>lower than they should since most classes involve taking tests, but there
>>really is no better way to measure scholastic aptitude, or at least we 
>>haven't found a better way.
>>

Yes there is a correlation between SAT scores and the aptitude to
do college work. There is also a correlation between being a doctor
and having big feet (a strong positive correlation, BTW). This just
points out the ability to use correlations to poorly define policy.
There are already provisions in place to deal with students who 
cannot or will not cut it academically: flunk the suckers out. Prop
48 and its ilk seem put in place solely because the member schools
of the NCAA can't trust each other to behave academically. It
puts the burden on the high school kid when it should be shared
equally between school and student. It's a pre-emptive strike on
those kids who have already had a slagging by the educational 
institutions. 

[That said...]

Although I'm in favor of ditching the Prop 48 standards, it does
seem to be having the effect of making the high school student
take studying more seriously. But why in the name of Clair Bee
do they take a year of eligibility from the kid? Unfathomable.
-- 
Jeff Davis <davis@keats.ca.uky.edu> Older than before.
Newsgroups: rec.sport.basketball.college
From: fehr@ms.uky.edu (Jeff Davis)
Subject: Re: Prop 48...
Keywords: Flag, country, ashokan fiddle music, etc. redundancy, repetition
Date: Thu, 30 Jul 1992 18:29:25 GMT
Organization: Loose Affiliation of Millionaires and Billionaires and Baby

DOUGLAS EDWARD LAW  writes:
>|> 
>|> So, since the schools can't be trusted, the student should be punished?
>|> There are admissions policies at every school. Every school, apparently,
>|> has a profile of the kind of kid it wants to educate and programs in
>|> place to attract these kinds of kids. Why not substitute for Prop 48
>|> a rule which would prohibit a school from accepting a kid from outside
>|> its "target" base. If it has programs in place to educate "high risk
>
>    What do you mean by "target" base? If you mean acadeamic target base then 
>    who determines what that target is for each school? Is it the same for 
>    Duke and, say, my school, N.C. State?
> 
      [The thread that wouldn't die. Fortunately, it's summer.]

Absolutely not. Each school would set its own admissions standards. And
why not? As I've pointed out, some schools issue a "Come all ye" to
the high school graduates in their states. What the h*** business of 
the NCAA is it to say what constitutes a legitimate student. 

Here's an example of how Prop JKD would improved things. Say, a 
school, No Conscience State University (NCSU for short), wanted to
"return" to their "factory" status." They submit a target student
base report to the NCAA which has "standards" so low that balled
up socks could qualify. Under Prop JKD, some percentage of that
target student base could be athletes. So, balled up socks of all
stripe could suddenly attend No Conscience and benefit from
its expanded mission. No Conscience has special tutors and remedial
education plans for its balled up sock athletes? Those programs
would have to be available to it balled up sock non-athletes.
Bingo. Better educated balled up socks for society at large.
Take another school, Downournoses University (DU for short). DU
has a higher achievement profile. Fine. It's athletes would mirror
that, rather than, say, coming across as a cooked cabbage when
called upon to do anti-drug commercials. In short, the athletes
would be JUST LIKE the non-athletes at a give school.

I'm not claiming the NCAA is purposefully dodging the implications
of their actions. Squeezing the high school kid is a direct, high
profile way to "improve" the profile of the students who play sports.
Why? It's like the joke about Ivy League schools...sure, they graduate
the best...it's all they take. So, Prop 48 is a quick fix: Sure Johnny
can read...he could read before they got him. Had it not been for a
couple of TV shows and law suits, Prop 48 would have never seen the 
light of day. To me, it seems rushed and poorly thought out. Now, 
it's engraved in stone...or worse, the middle class mind.

   [Follow-ups? Dear God, I hope not. When the NCAA calls and asks
    me, if I have anything specific in mind, I'll be sure to let
    you all know.]
-- 
Jeff Davis <davis@keats.ca.uky.edu> Repeat after me:
From: trradrx@canctr.mc.duke.edu (R.CLOUGH)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.basketball.college
Subject: Re: Underhanded Freethrows (was Georgia Tech)
Date: 21 Jul 92 17:32:07 GMT
Reply-To: trradrx@canctr.mc.duke.edu
Organization: Duke U. Med. Ctr., Durham, NC

In article <1992Jul21.153518.8018@CS.ORST.EDU>, rpandey@CS.ORST.EDU (Rajeev Pandey) writes:
> Incorrect.
> Brent Barry, probably a starting guard this year at Oregon State, also
> shoots his free throws underhanded. Brent is a 6'5" sophmore, and has the
> talents to make a name for himself down the road.

Guilty as charged, officer.  I realized after I posted it that I had forgotten
about the Barry at OSU, and that it was he with the odd shot.  As I recall
from the SI article last year about the Barry clan, his brothers really get
on Brent for shooting it that way, trying to imitate their father. 

Robert Clough, DUMC
	DUKE FOOTBALL '92: "The horror, the horror!"
Newsgroups: rec.sport.basketball.college
From: foerster@zman.rtp.dg.com (Mike Von Foerster)
Subject:  NIKE Title Game
Date: Thu, 30 Jul 92 09:31:46 GMT
Reply-To: foerster@dg-rtp.dg.com
Organization: Data General Corp., Research Triangle Park, NC

Anyone get a chance to see the NIKE title game that was broadcast at the
unusual time of Tuesday afternoon at 1:30. The top 20 players from the NIKE
camp played and they showed clips from the slam dunk competition and the
3-pt shooting contest.

Impressions:
  Jerry Stackhouse is the #1 player in the country. There is no way Randy
  Livingston can be rated ahead of him. I saw him play live 3 times and
  now on tape. The kid is just intense every time out. Was the leading scorer
  in this game with 21 pts.

  Joey Beard of Reston, VA. looked very good. (Grant Hill's HS). His school
  choices are Duke, Virginia, and Notre Dame. I believe there are a few
  others.

  Jacque Vaughn is a very quick little point guard. He picked Randy Livingston
  clean once and took it in for an uncontested score. The announcers said that
  Indiana leads for him but I've heard otherwise that Michigan is the leader
  which means he'll probably sign with neither.

  Greg Newton didn't look that good in this game but I saw him live at NIKE
  and he played much better.

  Jeff Capel (pronounced cay-pel) looked very good. He shot a couple of 3's
  back to back and overall looked tough.

The slam-dunk competition was pretty neat. That little Jason Sutherland, who 
beat Stackhouse had some pretty nice stuffs. Jason is from Watertown, SD and
is only 6'1" but is the state high jump champion. It shows.


I don't know if ESPN will replay this but if you like hoops this could be one to
check out. Evidently, it won't be replayed in prime-time unless you work nights.
  
-- 

Michael von Foerster           Internet: foerster@dg-rtp.dg.com
DG/UX Core Development         UUCP:     {world}!mcnc!rti!dg-rtp!foerster
Data General Corporation
62 T.W. Alexander Drive
RTP, NC. 27709                 Phone:    919-248-6327
Newsgroups: rec.sport.basketball.college