From: conradv@eng.clemson.edu (Conrad Vincent)
Subject: Re: Attention!
Reply-To: conradv@eng.clemson.edu
Organization: College of Engineering, Clemson Univ.
Date: Thu, 10 Sep 1992 01:03:15 GMT

In article 9274@csus.edu, chaneysa@nextnet.ccs.csus.edu (Steve Chaney : Borg Operating Space Systems, Revision 2.0) writes:
>
>Attention all those who follow Chris Dicely's point of view:
>
>A little history: When I went on my first pro-abort-bashing spree, I got a
>whole lot of flak from a particularly confrontation-hating reader named
>Chris Dicely.
>
>Since then, I have engaged in serious flame wars with the various
>flamelords - Susan Garvin, Mark Kaufman, PatricKKK Humphrey, and others -
>trying to knock some elbow room into USENET for pro-lifers who want less
>heat and more discussion. Perhaps if these bozos ran into flamelord
>competition that was just as fierce and relentless as they are, they would
>spend their time dealing with that problem, while leaving other pro-lifers
>alone to pursue the more peaceful portions of discussion on this newsgroup.
>Siren said I couldn't outflame this group, but in actuality, I matched and
>surpassed them, and started becoming overwhelming, especially when I hit
>the pro-aborts' nails on their heads.
>
>And when that happened, my flames got nastier and they hit harder, and
>hence, I began getting e-mail from ALL KINDS of folks. People who were
>begging me to stop.
>
>I have one final thing to say about these people.
>
>Where were you when I and everyone else were all under attack and we were 
>trying to avoid a flamefest, but were literally dragged into it?
>Where were you when Dan Bredy was telling Suzanne Forgach to "play" with
>the family dog? 
>Where are you NOW, when Suzanne Forgach takes constant and brutal attacks
>from pro-aborts?
>Where are you NOW, as they concentrate on Doug Holtsinger?
>Who was there for Conrad Vincent? Besides me, that is.
>
>I didn't see very much help for Kevin Welch, either.
>
>
>It finally took Nazi's like Mark Kaufman and Klansmen like PatricKKK
>Humphrey, with their bigoted statements, for you to wake up and smell the
>coffee: these punks want war and that's how they treat talk.abortion. 
>
>Who are you to complain when someone like me, comes loaded for bear, for a
>counterattack? What cracks me up, is that Chris Dicely flamed ME for giving
>the pro-aborts HELL, and then they stabbed him in the back. Repeatedly. I
>don't know why he is gone now - maybe it was because he couldn't stand the
>heat, maybe it was because his access expired, maybe he got bored, or
>whatever. But many other pro-lifers, some who have e-mailed me on the
>issue, felt compelled to leave because the flames were too hot for them.
>
>Perhaps if they had a little friendly cover fire to protect them, they
>would have felt more comfortable. The pro-aborts on USENET cover their
>friendly troops relentlessly against counterarguments, using flamethrowers
>galore to keep their position secure.
>
>Pro-lifers? I work hard to stifle laughter. I have never seen so large a
>collection of people unwilling to protect their own dignity and
>that of their allies, from these outrageous flamefests. Instead, all I see,
>when pro-lifers do put up some defense for their comrades, is a Chris
>Dicely telling us we're too hot for our own good.
>What history ought to be screaming at you, is that while you're telling me
>to cool off, the pro-aborts are flaming your hide off, smugly assured that
>your time has been sufficiently divided between refuting logic, or the
>lack of it, and protecting your dignity. 
>
>These assholes are predators who'll go after each other at the snap of a
>finger. They blew that poor guy Dennis so far off of USENET, and then came
>up with this long, outrageous story about how he was actually ME. (Then,
>they said I was Conrad Vincent, but that took a lot less time to fail.)
>Why? DON'T ASK ME - ask the folks who blew Siren off the net because she
>was peace-minded, and like Dennis, pissed the pro-aborts off. James Keegan
>rose to the bottom of this Sludge and attacked Elizabeth Bartley, and
>helped start a war over what "pro-choice" is. "Achtung! Your Goose Step is
>not high enough!"
>
>They have extremely double-standards. They scream Anti-Semitism whenever
>the wind blows the wrong way, yet when Mark Kaufman and others make their
>anti-religious statements which are just as bad as any Anti-Semitic
>statement, the pro-aborts look the other way and try harder than hell, to
>justify it. I thought for a while that they would ignore PatricKKK
>Humphrey's racist comment, then a crack appeared in the big pro-abortion
>USENET Iron Curtain, on that issue. But with Mark Kaufman, we saw for
>a week and longer, their efforts to try and justify him. 
>Hell, they took Kevin Darcy and created a newsgroup named after him, just
>to have a newsgroup dedicated solely to kicking his ass. All because Kevin
>Darcy doesn't have his GOOSE STEP down right (or at all).
>
>That could very well happen to you, too. These people are relentless and
>they don't give a hoot whose toes they step on, OBVIOUSLY.
>
>And look what they started in on Tom Boutell with - he decides to run my
>comments on abortion, and I'll be damned - they slammed him like nobody's
>business, and as Susan Garvin said, they would not dare contribute to a
>publication that ran my stuff. VOICE is supposed to be an even-handed
>magazine, yet these idiots go into Cranial Overload when they find out I've
>put an article in it. (Tom Boutell, however, being the Homey Don't Play
>That man that he is, reminded them up-front that such an attitude is like
>not voting at a booth because a Bush supporter might have voted there
>before...)
>
>And if you don't think a flame war can affect people and drive them away,
>look at what happened on alt.birthright. Some punk named Wayne Smith posted
>an article saying he was looking to flame some anti-abortionists, and I
>responded. Not only did he back down, but in a short time, he was gone.
>Just like that. Some guy named Douglas, came up and told me that I was a
>man intruding into a female issue, challenging ME to a flamewar; I blasted
>him so hard that he, too, disappeared, for quite a while. In fact, I
>blasted people on alt.birthright with the same fierceness that the
>pro-aborts employ here on talk.abortion, and I saw more vanishing acts
>within 3 weeks than anything I've seen before. I had to resort to running a
>massive "shameless attack on pro-choicers in general" to drag the rest out
>of the woodwork, and finally I had a challenge!
>
>But the lesson is, ferocity does scare people off for quite a while.
>Doubtlessly, these guys are back onto alt.birthright now, but they sure
>weren't on shortly after I came calling.
>And with 20 pro-aborts doing the exact same thing I did on alt.birthright,
>you bet there is considerable pressure for pro-lifers to just dump the
>talk.abortion newsgroup for the sake of peace of mind.
>
>
>So, boys and girls, if you don't want to respond to flames, fine. But think
>about those other pro-lifers who are being flamed relentlessly just because
>they're here, and who then leave because they don't feel like taking the
>verbal abuse anymore. If you had helped defend them, we would have a 1-1
>ratio on this newsgroup, right now. We have had more pro-lifers come and go
>on USENET, than there are currently pro-aborts on it. Most pro-aborts,
>however, come and STAY. Like cockroaches - once they arrive, you can never
>get rid of them.
>
>You yourself have helped create a situation on talk.abortion where you are
>being swamped by the pro-aborts. If everyone responded to pro-abortion
>flamefests like Steve Franklin did to Lefty, the pro-aborts would either be
>scared off of USENET, or would be more inclined to shape up and calm down,
>for some real sensible discussions, and we would not NEED to bash anyone, 
>anymore. 
>
>Pro-aborts only know the language of power and strength. When it comes
>back against them, they cower and run for cover. When they use it and
>we don't respond equally, they pile all over you and they never let
>up. They eventually corner you and do a Kevin Darcy or Kevin Welch,
>and they'll even savage each other. Yeah, folks, these pro-aborts will
>slit EACH OTHERS' THROATS. It takes folks like ME, to catch them with
>their pants down, so that they have to spend more time falling all
>over themselves and trying to cover up for their own fuck-ups, so
>other pro-lifers can state their point in relative peace. And really,
>Doug H., Steve F. and I, seem to have cultivated an art out of this
>strategy. :) 
> 
>So the next time you come onto talk.abortion and you see 20 pro-aborts and
>5 pro-lifers, and you are crying about how few pro-lifers there are, don't
>go whining about it. Remember all those complaints you e-mailed to me about
>my efforts to lay down some cover fire to prevent those 15 other pro-lifers
>from being swamped off the newsgroup - an effort you could have, though
>less intensely, joined in.
>At least Steve Franklin, Doug Holtsinger, Suzanne Forgach, Peter Nyikos and
>I have the guts to take it to them instead of taking it in the ass.
>
>
>=============================================================================
>>##       "My logic is based on ... a religious perspective which says
>>##  that personhood begins at birth (actually a month after birth if
>>##  we want to be precise)..."
>>##    -- Gloria Feldt,
>>##       chief executive, Planned Parenthood of Central and Northern Arizona
>
>>##   "I see nothing extreme or reprehensible about this statement."
>>##     -- garvin+@cs.cmu.edu (Susan Garvin) <BtnDAw.Iwo.2@cs.cmu.edu>
>=============================================================================
>|Pro-Contraception   Pro-Freedom of Religion, Speech & Sexual Orientation   |
>|Pro-Privacy    Pro-Humanism   Pro-Freedom of Choice 	Registered Democrat | 
>|                                                                           |
>|			Card-carrying member, NRLC                          |
>|           Dedicated to achieving civil rights for the unborn              |
>=============================================================================
>BBBBBB     OOOOOOOO   SSSSSSS   SSSSSSS    Founder: Steve Chaney 
>B    B     O      O   S         S          <chaneysa@nextnet.ccs.csus.edu> 
>BBBBBBBB   O     OO   SSSSSSS   SSSSSSS    
>BB     B   O     OO        SS        SS    Borg Operating 
>BBBBBBBB O OOOOOOOO O SSSSSSS O SSSSSSS O  Space Systems, Revision 2.0 
>
>	       The B.O.S.S. does not speak for CSUS. 


BRAVO STEVE !!!
A GREAT ARTICLE.  I REPOSTED IT FOR THOSE OF YOU WHO HAD NOT READ IT THE FIRST TIME




" All that is required for evil to triumph is that good men do nothing"
						            Edmund Burke


Newsgroups: talk.abortion