HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: bartle@vulcan.resmel.bhp.com.au
Newsgroups: rec.boats.paddle
Subject: Re: kayak self-instruction?
Date: 21 Jan 93 17:08:06 +1000
Organization: BHP Research - Melbourne Laboratories

In article <1993Jan18.083957.2461@ccsvax.sfasu.edu>, f_speerjr@ccsvax.sfasu.edu writes:
> I'm an old, experienced boater, and a good swimmer. Have just acquired
> low-volume sea kayak and want to learn to roll it. (It's clear that's an
> essential skill to use it safely.)
> 
> I have no access to instructors or experienced persons. In shallow water, with
> helpers standing by, I've learned to get out (and back in) upside-down, and
> have "almost" managed to get the cotton-picking thing back upright (but not
> quite).
> 
> Any suggestions for self-instruction?? Thanks!

Well I've never paddled a sea kayak before, but I have paddled lots of
other kayaks, so this may be of some help -- its how we teach them to
roll in our club:

      -	keep looking down (whether you've got your eyes open or not)
      -	keep leaning back
      -	start sweeping from the front with a feathered blade
      -	keep feathering your blade back and forth ON THE SURFACE of
		the water, and as far OUT from your boat as 
		you can manage

And keep trying!

There are probably some special styles that may be more effective in sea
kayaks -- but that is what I would try on my first attempt anyway

                               - PeterB
From: sdh4@ns1.cc.lehigh.edu (SCOTT DYLAN HARDING)
Newsgroups: rec.boats.paddle
Subject: Re: Whitewater Rafting in '96 Olympics?
Date: 22 Jan 93 15:54:47 GMT
Organization: Lehigh University

In article <schultz.727668878@beagle>, schultz@boulder.Colorado.EDU (Dennis Schu
ltz) writes:
>
>       Was it just a wild rumor or is there some possibility that
>whitewater rafting would be included in the 1996 summer Olympics.  If so,
>I need to start training now.  Where's my beer anyway?
>-dennis
>

        It is only a wild rumor.  Rafting is not an Olympic sport.  Have your
        beer anyway.
-- 
-----------------
Scott Harding
Lehigh University
Newsgroups: rec.boats.paddle
From: doc@wixer.cactus.org (John McClenny)
Subject: Re: kayak self-instruction?
Organization: Real/Time Communications
X-Newsreader: Tin 1.1 PL5
Date: Thu, 21 Jan 1993 16:56:43 GMT


I don't know if sea kayakers generally use a C-to-C or sweep roll.   If you
want to learn a C-to-C roll I would suggest the new roll video "GRACE UNDER
PRESSURE - LEARNING THE KAYAK ROLL".   It is from NOC instructors Kathy Bolyn
(KB), Tom DeCuir, and Joe Holt.  It is quite funny and has excellent
sequences on both the physical and mental parts of learning to roll and
covers the C-to-C paddle and hands roll and bracing technique.   It should be
available from most WW mail-order places - I know NOC has it.  Two thumbs up !
I have started using it in my classes.


ANother good new video is "SOUTHERN FRIED CREEKIN'"  from Sue and Wayne
Gentry.   It is 45 minutes of most of the better creek runs in the south.
It features the Tellico, Watauga, Horsepasture, WHitewater, Toxaway,
Overflow, and an unnamed "mystery creek".  These are th steeper and more
dificult creeks, with Overflow and "mystery" creeks pretty scary.   Fun to
watch and a high quality video.
Newsgroups: rec.boats.paddle
From: DJM@ECL.PSU.EDU (D. J. Medeiros)
Subject: Penn State Pool Slalom
Organization: PennState
Distribution: usa
Date: Fri, 22 Jan 93 23:04:05 GMT
X-News-Reader: VMS NEWS 1.24

The Penn State Outing Club is hosting a Pool Slalom at the campus
in State College PA on Sunday, Feb 14.  Come join us!  The race
involves a course of 12-14 gates, including old-rules reverse gates,
and 2 rolls (or more, if you wish!).

Afterwards, we go to a local restaurant to eat pizza and tell lies.

Email me if you want directions or more info.
Newsgroups: rec.boats.paddle
From: vogler@helios.var.com (William F. Vogler)
Subject: Boating in CHILE
Date: Thu, 21 Jan 1993 18:22:04 GMT
Organization: Varian, Palo Alto, CA

Hola Fellow Boatheads:

On the 29th of Jan. I am heading down to Chile to do some boating. I
will be traveling solo and will not have transportation once I get
down there.

I'm going to hitch hike down to the Bio-Bio and hang out at the 
hot springs as my base camp for kayaking.

After the Bio, I plan on heading down to the Futalefu (spelling?).
Once past Puerto Monte the going will get tough on getting to the Fu.

Does anyone out there in netland know of anyone that will be at the Fu
in February? If so, please drop me some info. I have been down to the Fu
back in 89 and it is a pretty deserted place as far a boating goes, or for
anything for that matter.

Any other info that you feel may be helpful would also be appreciated. 

Thanks.

Bill, vogler@helios.var.com
Newsgroups: rec.boats.paddle
From: dsj@juniper12.cray.com (Douglas Jackson)
Subject: RE: rolling
Originator: dsj@juniper12
Organization: Cray Research, Inc.
Date: 25 Jan 93 16:16:43 CST


>  BTW -- What does C-to-C stand for?

My understanding is that C-to-C stands for having
your back arched one way (in a C) and then quickly
arching it the other way (C-to-C).  The C's representing
the arches in the backbone.

>  which roll do you use? where did you learn it, etc.

I learned to roll with the C-to-C at a paddling school
in Wisconsin.

Now, I use both C-to-C and laid-back(screw-roll) as mood
strikes.  I find that the laid-back is somewhat easier.
The reverse sweep is a good idea and I try to work that
in when I use a laid-back roll.


As far as hands-roll goes it seems intriguing (sp?) to
use that for teaching students.
So:

1)  Why is it hard for my friends - who can roll well with
    a paddle - to learn a hands roll?
    (one would think it would be much easier for them than
     for a beginner)

2)  Would people who learn hands rolls 1st have the reverse
    problem of finding it difficult to switch to a paddle
    roll?  (someone found it easy according to a previous
    posting)

3)  Would you be better off in the long run learning the
    hands roll first because then you would have it later
    when you wanted to use it?  (if so, then I would teach
    the hands-roll 1st)

4)  It sounds like the chicago whitewater people use the
    hands-rolling technique to teach rolling or was that
    an isolated incident?  If so, how quickly do your people
    learn on average?


SOMEONE ASKED About rolling lessons:

I have two clubs I belong to:

  The Cascaders:  Rolling lessons on Sundays starting 1/31/93.

  Minnesota Canoe Association(MCA):  Rolling lessons Fridays
  starting 1/29/93.

  (fellow club members please email me so I know who is out
   there)

-Doug Jackson.
-- 


	-Doug
From: billf@hpcvra.cv.hp.com (Bill Faus)
Date: Mon, 25 Jan 1993 19:19:02 GMT
Subject: Re: kayak self-instruction?
Organization: Hewlett-Packard Co., Corvallis, OR, USA
Newsgroups: rec.boats.paddle

> I find it easier to roll anyway if I am leaning OUT SIDEWAYS from the boat
> holding the paddle as far out perpendicularly to the boat as possible.

> My first sweep is a forwards sweep, then as I'm coming up I do a reverse 
> sweep which brings me up leaning forwards, and with the paddle out in front
> of me, and in a position ready to react quickly to anything new on the river.

I agree and practice what you are saying.  But my own experience
of learning to roll, and that of watching beginners on easy
rivers is that leaning back is a helpful tip while learning
a basic roll.  The combat style roll with a forwards-backwards
sweep and head tucked down and forward isn't my first choice
for teaching curious students.  

As my screw roll has improved I find that there are a multitude 
of variations of the basic screw roll depending on which
of the three aspects I emphasize--hip snap, sweep, tuck.

-bill


Newsgroups: rec.boats.paddle
From: ek03843l@uwasa.fi (Janne Lehtinen)
Subject: squirt-boats
Organization: University of Vaasa, Finland
Date: Mon, 25 Jan 1993 13:48:02 GMT


Hello!

I am one of the few finnish squirtist. I would like to know
the prices for squirt boats in US. For example boats named
ProJet and Prodigy are in my interest. I am also wondering,
what is the optimal volume for 70 kilos kayaker and how is 
volume changing in accordance with the paddlers weight. If 
there is clear differences in performance of squirt boats,
could You inform me, which are the best ones.

thank You!

lonely squirtist from the reindeer's country
From: f_speerjr@ccsvax.sfasu.edu
Newsgroups: rec.boats.paddle
Subject: kayak self-instruction
Date: 22 Jan 93 05:26:43 CST
Organization: Stephen F. Austin State University

May I thank everyone for ALL those helpful suggestions about teaching myself to
roll a kayak? I've ordered one of the duggested videos, and come March or so
when local waters warm up a bit I've no doubt I'll become an expert roller in
no time! Will keep all you helpful folk informed about my progress. Thanks!
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
James R. Speer                               Phone:  409 568 1478
Department of Psychology                     Fax:    409 568 2190
Stephen F. Austin State University           E-mail: F_SPEERJR@ccsvax.sfasu.edu
Nacogdoches TX 75962-3046                    Ham Radio: K5YUT
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: sti@po.CWRU.Edu (Stephen T. Ingalls)
Newsgroups: rec.boats.paddle
Subject: BWA Paddling Film Festival
Date: 22 Jan 1993 01:26:23 GMT
Organization: Case Western Reserve University, Cleveland, Ohio (USA)
NNTP-Posting-Host: slc5.ins.cwru.edu


National Paddling Film Festival -

February 26 and 27

(Taken partially from the Bluegrass Wildwater 
Association's press release concerning this 
event . . .)

	Start the 1993 whitewater season off with 
a splash at the 10th annual National Paddling 
Film Festival.  This event will gather 
together paddling enthusiasts from around the 
country and world to share experiences in 
person and on film. On February 26 form 8 p.m. 
to 10 p.m. you'll be welcomed to the PFF site 
at the U KY Health Science Learning Center 
with an open reception and a viewing of past 
festival winners. Saturday morning, February 
27, the competition begins. From 9 a.m. to 5 
p.m., entries put together by you and your 
friends will be judged by a distinguished 
panel of paddling and film-making 
personalities. Professional entries will be 
competing as well, and judged by a panel of 
paddlers representing boating clubs from 
across the country. Even if you don't have 
anything to enter, come and watch. Spectators 
are sure to be entertained by the skills, 
exploits, and adverntures of fellow paddlers, 
the scenic beauty of the waterways we travel, 
the thrill of whitewater racing competition, 
the insight of instructional wisdom, and the 
humor of it all. there always exists the 
possibility of surprise appearance of the 
BWA's Women in Rubber.
	We invite you to create a slide 
presentation, 8mm or super-8 film, or any 
format videotape of your paddling experiences. 
Judging criteria are: creativity, photographic 
quality, editing and pacing, content 
(development of an idea), and use of sound, 
music, or narration (not required, but 
encouraged). Entry categories are: 
Recreational/Scenic, Racing, humor, 
instructional, hair boating, club entry, 
paddling slide (limit 3 entries per person), 
and conservation.
	For more information, contact:

	Bluegrass WildWater Association
	Box 4231
	Lexington KY 40504
Newsgroups: rec.boats.paddle
From: jon@zeus.med.utah.edu (Jonathan Byrd)
Subject: Re: Which Roll????
Date: Fri, 22 Jan 1993 17:52:48 GMT
Organization: University of Utah

In article <1993Jan21.170850.18883@wixer.cactus.org> doc@wixer.cactus.org (John McClenny) writes:

   Which style of roll do you use ? ( C-to-C, screw, sweep ? )
   How did you learn it ( Class, friend, book, divine inspiration, etc.?) and
   when, and where ?

About three years ago, I learned to roll in a kayaking class taught
here at the U of Utah.  We were taught the sweep roll.  A few of us
who caught on quickly were taught the C-to-C, but I never use it in
rivers.  I can get up using the C-to-C, but not without extending my
elbow away from my body to get more leverage.  I have weak shoulders,
and this position is too dangerous for me in a river.  I don't have
trouble doing a sweep roll with my elbows close to my side.

Does this reflect a weakness in the C-to-C method, or does it just
reflect my lack of practice?  Can anyone out there do a C-to-C while
keeping the elbows in?

--
jonathan byrd
jon@apollo.med.utah.edu
From: bh@dcs.ed.ac.uk (Brian Horisk)
Newsgroups: rec.boats.paddle
Subject: Re: Which Roll????
Date: 23 Jan 93 18:37:18 GMT
Reply-To: bh@dcs.ed.ac.uk (Brian Horisk)
Organization: Laboratory for the Foundations of Computer Science, Edinburgh U

I too know people who learned to hand-roll before paddle rolling.  This is 
especially common in people who've played Canoe Polo in a pool before ever
going on white-water.

The disadvantage of learning hand-rolling first nis that it becomes an instinct
so these people tend to throw away their paddle when they get into trouble on
big water.  One of my friends has lived (fortunately) to regret this habit!

Brian.
Edinburgh Uni Canoe Club
From: bosch@rz.uni-karlsruhe.de (Gerhard Bosch)
Newsgroups: rec.boats.paddle
Subject: European / German paddlers
Date: 23 Jan 1993 10:44:22 GMT
Organization: University of Karlsruhe, Germany
Distribution: world
NNTP-Posting-Host: ifh-hp2.bau-verm.uni-karlsruhe.de

Hi,
I still looking for some paddlers in Europe on the net to exchange some
ideas and information. If you know anybody interested in paddles and also
boats, please hand him/her my adress over.


-- 
Im writing this as a privat person, not reflecting any
opinions of the Institut of Hydromechanics, the University
of Karlsruhe, the Land of Baden-Wuerttemberg, the Federal
Republic of Germany and the European Community. The address 
and the phone number below are just to get in touch with me.
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
-                                                            -
Dipl.-Ing. Gerhard Bosch M.Sc.-------voice:(0721) - 608 3118 -
Institute for Hydromechanik            FAX:(0721) - 608 4290 -
University of Karlsruhe                                      -
Kaiserstrasse 12                                             -
7500-Karlsruhe                                               -  
Germany                                                      - 
-                                                            -  
- Internet: bosch@ifh-hp2.bau-verm.uni-karlsruhe.de          -
-   Bitnet: nd07@DKAUNI2.BITNET                              -
-    X.400: S=bosch;OU=ifh-hp2;OU=bau-verm;P=uni-karlsruhe   -
-           A=dbp;C=de                                       -
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
From: bd_c165@neptune.kingston.ac.uk
Newsgroups: rec.boats.paddle
Subject: RE: rolling
Date: 28 Jan 93 12:29:31 GMT
Organization: Computing Services, Kingston Polytechnic
NNTP-Posting-Host: neptune.king.ac.uk

In article <1993Jan25.161643.29933@hemlock.cray.com>, dsj@juniper12.cray.com (Douglas Jackson) writes:

> 
> 3)  Would you be better off in the long run learning the
>     hands roll first because then you would have it later
>     when you wanted to use it?  (if so, then I would teach
>     the hands-roll 1st)
> 

People who i know who learnt to hand roll first, i found relied on it too
much.... They had appauling paddle rolls for the next 6 months.....

Stick em on a bit of fast moving water and walllop - away go the paddles
and hand roll up..... Ok they got up but this is a terrbile habit to get 
into.... 

It took them a good few months to get out of this habit and learn to paddle
roll effectively every time on fast/boily water.....

Personally i had been paddling for 9 monsths before i learnt to roll,
consequently i learnt to rely much more on a decent support stroke.....

Now Im in the University club I see new paddlers with only a months experience
who can roll yet have a shit support stroke and very little boat control
and are capsising left right and centre on relatively easy (?) waves/rapids !
           |
   Hmm is that spelt right ? 


Oh well..... this was only going to be a short reply !!!!!!


Gareth


By the way - Ive only really briefly looked through this news group....
Are most of you out there using canoes or kayaks ???

Byeeeeeeeeeeeee
From: billf@hpcvra.cv.hp.com (Bill Faus)
Date: Fri, 22 Jan 1993 17:16:19 GMT
Subject: Re: kayak self-instruction?
Organization: Hewlett-Packard Co., Corvallis, OR, USA
Newsgroups: rec.boats.paddle

> Learn to finish your roll with your torso leaning back and someday a rock
> will rip your face off!  I prefer the C-to-C roll; it doesn't leave you
> vulnerable to having your face smashed.

Well...he did say sea kayak didn't he?  :-)

Aside from personal preferences, I'd be curious to hear why certain
rolls are preferred.  When we tried to teach Julie the screw
roll she freaked out trying to sweep her paddle, but she has such 
a good hip snap and torso flexibility that she had no trouble 
with a C-to-C.

I've found, in my limited experience, that the screw roll
is the most reliable and fastest for me to set up and execute.
I can do it right or left with equal ease with both eyes closed.

Lately, I've been working on the reverse screw roll.  It actually
seems to have an advantage over the forward screw roll in that
the initial body position is fairly typical of what happens
when you get knocked over by rough water.  However, I don't
like the vulnerable position of the arms.

Also, I stay away from continuous IV, V water and steep creeks.
Open ocean, and class II-III water, novice status may dictate
different types of rolls.

So what is the basic roll repertoire of an expert kayaker
and how quick is he/she to choose one roll over another?
Does learning to roll a canoe (there's always one at
our pool sessions) help in learning kayak rolls?

-bill
Newsgroups: rec.boats
From: tmr@wdl1.wdl.loral.com (Tim Ryan)
Subject: Re: Jet Skis
Organization: loral western development labs
Date: Tue, 26 Jan 1993 18:06:18 GMT

In article <1k0snoINNs5@gilligan.East.Sun.COM>, mike@gilligan.East.Sun.COM (Mike Roncadori) writes:
> 
> I can't recall who posted it, but someone said "I used to get
> annoyed by jet skis, until I rode one."
> 
> My wife and I fit into that group... We liked them so much,
> we bought 2 last summer. We've also gotten rid or our boat.
> After seeing a general attitude of disdain for jet skis (by
> boaters in general, not just here), I figured it was best not
> to talk about them on this newsgroup.

Stuff deleted-
 
> Looking forward to another wet summer...
> 
> -- Mike
 
Interesting! 
I wasn't sure if there were any jet skiers out there in rec.boat land. 
I love to jet ski! I have a kawasaki TS (sit down type-or as I call it, 
the old man type, because if you don't want to work you don't have to).
There alot of fun but, you see alot of people not paying attention and 
getting way to close to boats and skiers.

I usually stay as far away from boat as possible, except when I'm skiing 
with freinds who have boats. And then I'm extra careful.

Let it rain let it rain. After 6 years of drought I'm ready for some more
water.

Happy skiing!

Tim 
:o)
Newsgroups: rec.boats
From: iseman@ravel.udel.edu (Stephen Early)
Subject: East coast boat shows
Organization: University of Delaware
Distribution: usa
Date: Mon, 25 Jan 1993 01:36:08 GMT




	My girlfriend and I went to the Philadelphia boat show toady and were 
disappointed to see less than ten sailboats over 20 feet on display.  If anyone
knows of any upcoming shows on the East coast where we can see a large selection
of 20 foot plus sailboats we'd love to know the particulars.

Steve
Newsgroups: rec.boats
From: linda@wendy.net.com (Linda Hill)
Subject: Re: Liveaboard rent question
Organization: Network Equipment Technologies
Distribution: usa
Date: Wed, 27 Jan 1993 23:25:38 GMT

In article <1906@tekgen.bv.tek.com> paulh@tekcae.cax.tek.com (Paul Hammer) writes:
>>Well, I'll horseshit your bullshit.  For many of us, it *is* a question of
>>economics.  I can plan to buy either a boat or a house in about 3 years, and
>>the other one several years after that, or longer if the economy gets worse.
>>Given a choice between sailing now and sailing when I'm 40 if I'm lucky, I will
>>sail now.  
>
>Well, I'll batshit your horseshit.  You are talking about buying both
>and about which one you want first and which one you can do without
>for awhile.
>
>>I don't think the original poster (I forget her name) was arguing that a boat
>>is much cheaper than a house, but rather that a boat is an option on a budget.
>>If you want to afford the boat you live on it.
>>
>
>Having gotten further email from the original poster I assure
>you that the argument was indeed that living on a boat is much
>cheaper than living in a house and the folks that are living
>on boats are doing so because they can't afford the house,
>boat or no boat.
>
>>Karina
>
>rickf
>

Huh?  I don't recall sending you email.  This morning I _did_ post a response
(article #16277) to your post, which stated that we couldn't afford to buy a
house so we bought our cruising boat with the intention of living on it.
We could come up with enough for a down payment for a boat, but not for a
house (and eventually a boat too), and we didn't want to wait until retirement
to go cruising, so this seemed like the ideal solution.  I _never_ said
"living on a boat is much cheaper than living in a house".  I specifically
said "most often I see people giving up their land dwelling to live on their
cruising boat because they can't afford both".

I suppose if we didn't plan on leaving after the boat's paid off, then we
could start saving for a house, but that's not the plan at all.  Every penny
goes to the boat and the cruising kitty, and will continue to do so until we
are physically unable to get aboard the thing.  Okay?!  Can we end this
discussion?  It was not my intention to malign liveaboards - I love the nature
part of it too, for crying out loud.  :-)

-- 
Linda V. Hill                           "Nakia", Hans Christian 33
Network Equipment Technologies          Email: linda@net.com
800 Saginaw Drive, 23.2.3               Phone: (415) 780-5785
Redwood City, CA 94063 			Fax:   (415) 780-5001
From: kozowski@ohsu.edu (Eric Kozowski)
Newsgroups: rec.boats
Subject: NOAA Data Sets
Date: 22 Jan 93 19:07:36 GMT
Article-I.D.: ohsu.1993Jan22.190736.13961
Organization: Oregon Health Sciences University

I realize this may have been asked before, butI'll ask again anyway.  Are NOAA  
data sets available for purchase?  I would like the data sets that allow me to  
reproduce my own charts.  The USGS sells land data sets, so I imagine that NOAA  
does also.  But the questions is, who do I talk to about this?  Any info would  
be appreciated.

--
Eric Kozowski                | System/Network Administrator
kozowski@ohsu.edu            | Oregon Health Sciences University
                             | 840 SW Gaines Rd GH113
503/494-4537                 | Portland, Oregon 97201
Newsgroups: rec.boats
From: dbk@phx.mcd.mot.com (Dave Kinzer)
Subject: Re: Origin of Starboard (was Wheel steering on small boats)
Summary: Origin of Port
Reply-To: teroach!dbk@phx.mcd.mot.com (Dave Kinzer)
Organization: Motorola Analog Integrated Circuits Division
Date: Wed, 27 Jan 1993 14:42:11 GMT

 
>Now that we know the *real* origin of starboard, what is the
>origin of port ?
 
 
One of the instructors in my CG Auxiliary safe boating class fancied 
himself a historian of nautical words.  The starboard comes from
Norwegian styrbord (as per a previous post), and the other side of
the ship was called the larbord (sorry, he only said then not spelled
them) for the larder (and kitchen) side of the boat.  This apparently
caused a bit of confusion, so it eventually became known as the port
side, because that is the side tied up to port to load the supplies
into the larder.

Strictly word of mouth here.

-Dave


From: laughlin@ship.wimsey.bc.ca (Laughlin Hughes)
Sender: UUCP@ship.wimsey.bc.ca