HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: L629159@LMSC5.IS.LMSC.LOCKHEED.COM
Newsgroups: rec.boats
Subject: Re: Sail salvage w/power (brainstorm)
Date: 25 Jan 93 20:47:09 GMT
Article-I.D.: LMSC5.93025.46029.L629159
Organization: Lockheed Missiles & Space Company, Inc.

From: caf@sequent.com (Frank Collom)
Subject: Sail salvage w/power (brainstorm)

I'm hoping that this will generate some interesting discussions.

The situation;

There is a a 26' Thunderbird beached near my home on the Columbia.
It has been there about three weeks now and a friend and I have
tracked down the owner and he is willing to let us salvage the boat.

The boat is in 4' to 6.5' of water depending on tides,  the keel is
toward shore and now pretty much burried into the sand and muck. She's
on her side (mast toward river, bow upstream) at about 30 degrees.

We attempted to turn and drag her into deeper water where she could be
righted using my 29' Criss with twin 350's but couldn' budge her.

We can't afford pros for the job so we're lookin' for any and all
suggestions.

Please, if you want to contribute, let's do it in a pure brainstorming
manner.  That is any idea is a good idea, it can be built upon but, not
argued.

HOW WOULD YOU GO ABOUT SAVING THIS BOAT?

Endquote.

  Interesting problem.  It seems to me that the first thing to do is
to give the boat some bouyancy.  Once you can move her, you can move
her to someplace that you can do more convenient work.  The tidal change
can help.  If you can pass some lines under the hull, you can take the
slack out of them at low tide if they are attached to some sort of
pontoons (say, empty oil drums) and get some bouyancy as the tide comes
back.  It may also help if you can remove non-floating hardware in situ
(mast, winches,... leave the cleats, you may want to use them as attachment
points.

  I admit I've never done this sort of thing, so my advice is worth what
it costs.  Good luck.

Al Moore
Newsgroups: rec.boats
From: legacy@cbnewsj.cb.att.com (wayne.m.simpson)
Subject: Re: split rec.boats??
Organization: AT&T
Distribution: na
Date: Mon, 25 Jan 1993 15:31:21 GMT
Followup-To: rec.boats
Summary: rec.boats.sail.c27 ?
Keywords: split

In article <wwalker-220193152424@bwalker.qualcomm.com> wwalker@qualcomm.com (Bill Walker) writes:
>And if we do split, well, lemme see, I want to subscribe to
>rec.boats.sail.cruising, rec.boats.sail.daysailing, rec.boats.sail.racing,
>rec.boats.power.small, and rec.boats.power.big (maybe), but I'll skip
>rec.boats.power.fishing, rec.boats.power.pwc,
>rec.boats.power.tankers.aground, rec.boats.user-fee, and probably
>rec.boats.sail.want-to-crew.  :-)
>
>Oops.  I forgot about rec.boats.sail.ice (just for you, John) and
>rec.boats.sail.c27 (for Wayne). :-)

   We already have a mailing list for Catalina 27's (and other Catalina
sailboats), but thanks for thinking of me just the same. :-)

Wayne Simpson (no fancy .sig this time)


From: bsmith@hplvec.LVLD.HP.COM (Brian Smith)
Date: Tue, 19 Jan 1993 19:19:23 GMT
Subject: Re: Scuppers (Was Re: Chicago Boat Show)
Organization: Hewlett-Packard Co., Loveland, CO
Newsgroups: rec.boats

In rec.boats, enenkel@cs.toronto.edu (Robert Frederick Enenkel) writes:

    But but but... Look at tugboats.  They don't have open transoms.  Just 
    scuppers that are big enough!  Robert Enenkel

Do tugboats have cockpits?  Or am I just suffering from
humour-impairment?
B.S!
From: fallavol@fred.nas.nasa.gov (Michael A. Fallavollita)
Newsgroups: rec.boats
Subject: Anyone have an old 1992 Nautical Almanac
Date: 22 Jan 93 17:53:56 GMT
Distribution: ba
Organization: NAS, NASA Ames Research Center, Moffett Field, CA

If anyone has a 1992 Nautical Almanac they they no longer need (It IS 1993!)
I'd like to take it off their hands.  I'm trying to learn celectial nav
and want to work a couple of problems in Ocean Navigator.  I have a program
that is supposed to do sight reductions, but I can't make the moon sights
work.  In order to check the program and start learning the hard way,
I'd like to get my hands on a 1992 almanac.  If anyone can help, I'd
appreciate it.

Mike Fallavollita [fallavol@corvus.arc.nasa.gov]
Catalina 25 #3093
From: tinnin@ccwf.cc.utexas.edu (Nathan Tinnin)
Newsgroups: rec.boats
Subject: Re: Give me some Ideas!
Date: 25 Jan 1993 18:52:08 GMT
Organization: The University of Texas at Austin, Austin TX
Distribution: alt
NNTP-Posting-Host: sneezy.cc.utexas.edu

I'm sure it's been used, but I've always like "Heart of Gold" from the
Hitchiker's Guide to the Galaxy.  As it is I plan to name my current boat
after my wife or daughters.  Good luck!
From: hanners@oasys.dt.navy.mil (Robert Hanners)
Newsgroups: rec.boats
Subject: Re: Wheel steering on small boats
Date: 26 Jan 93 19:11:34 GMT
Reply-To: hanners@oasys.dt.navy.mil (Robert Hanners)
Organization: Carderock Division, NSWC, Annapolis, MD

In rec.boats, finns@hal.nta.no (Finn Stafsnes FBA) writes:

>An other option, which I have used in several small open launches,
>is a wheel mounted on starboard side in the middle of the boat with the axis
>square to the fore-and-aft line. Pulling the top of the wheel backwards made
>the boats turn to starboard.

To complete the permutations, the fore-and-aft moving vertical tiller
mounted on the starboard side of crab boats and some other work boats.
Operates as above.  Any others?

-- Bob

------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Robert J. Hanners         "My comments; only mine."          *DIASTOLE* 676673
CD, NSWC, Annapolis, MD                              hanners@oasys.dt.navy.mil
From: ber@otter.hpl.hp.com (Brenda Romans)
Newsgroups: rec.boats
Subject: Re: charter sailing in greece or turkey
Date: 27 Jan 93 09:06:16 GMT
Organization: Hewlett-Packard Laboratories, Bristol, UK.


The company that I sailed with is SUNSAIL - Here's some detatils for 1993.

Sunsail Ltd.
The Port House
Port Solent
Portsmouth
Hampshire
PO6 4TH

Reservations tel 0705 210345 (Leave off the first 0 if dialling from outside
                              the UK) 
Fax 0705 219827

Ask them for the brochures, theres *loads* of information on the areas, the
boat layouts, prices etc.

Some sample prices are: 

One week flotilla (29' boat), 2 people, 3rd April 435 pounds each.
                              4 people            270
                   35'                            488
                              4 people            339
                              8 people            249 (never put 8 people 
                   29         2 people  24 July   760  on an 8 berth boat!)
                   35                             880

This would be my choice:

Two week flotilla (30' boat) 16 October 4 people (on a 6 berth boat)  460
pounds each 

I'd go late in the season because it isn't too hot but the sea will be as warm
as it is going to get....and it's cheaper.

These prices include flights to and from London.

Cheers, have fun

Brenda
From: bsmith@hplvec.LVLD.HP.COM (Brian Smith)
Date: Sat, 23 Jan 1993 00:00:44 GMT
Subject: Re: Do I want flat-field binoculars?
Organization: Hewlett-Packard Co., Loveland, CO
Newsgroups: rec.boats

Ahem!  What is "eye relief" when related to binoculars?  Just
displaying my usual damned ignorance.
                                     B.S!
Newsgroups: rec.boats
From: EPLUS17@vmd.cso.uiuc.edu (Richard Engelbrecht-Wiggans)
Subject: Re: Wheel steering on small boats (was Re: Boat Show)
Organization: C.C.S.O.
Date: Sun, 24 Jan 1993 17:36:02 GMT

In article <93023.145518U13792@uicvm.uic.edu>
Dennis Bartley <U13792@uicvm.uic.edu> writes:
 
>In article <1993Jan23.185152.7491@leland.Stanford.EDU>,
>stefan@leland.Stanford.EDU (Stefan Michalowski) says:
>
>Actually, it's the person who made automobiles steer backwards that blew it.
>If he had made the rear wheels do the steering, we'd have no problems :-)
>
 
I would love to blame all the world's problems on automobiles too :-)
 
But consider the following:
 
1.  Horse drawn vehicles tend to have the front wheels "steer."
 
2.  Early automobiles had tillers; pushing them left made you
    turn right just as in a sailboat.
 
3.  When replacing tillers on automobiles with steering wheels,
    the manufacturers adopted (perhaps unknowingly) the
    convention already defined by the big sailing ships...you
    push the top of the wheel in the direction you want to turn.
    (Unlike on boats, steering wheels on automobile DO rotate
    in the same direction as would tillers, the difference
    being that the tiller on boats points forward, while on
    automobiles it pointed back or sideways.)
 
A simple linkage to reverse the direction of a tiller might go
as follows:  fasten a block on each gunwale of the boat roughly
even with the tip of the tiller.  Tie a rope to the tip of the
tiller, run it through one block, then through the other, and
tie it off at the tiller handle.  Grab the rope between the two
blocks.  You could tidy things up a little by relocating the
tiller below decks, and if deemed appropriate, you could install
a false tiller, above decks, attached to the rudder only through
its being attatched to the middle of the rope between the blocks.
Of course, this linkage would--as would almost any linkage--
decrease the "feel" of the tiller somewhat.
 
..Richard E+17
 
Newsgroups: rec.boats
From: larry@pdn.paradyne.com (Larry Swift)
Subject: Re: sailcover-topping lift
Organization: AT&T Paradyne, Largo, Florida
Distribution: world,local
Date: Mon, 25 Jan 1993 13:34:41 GMT

In article <1993Jan22.112339.1@mcvax4.d48.lilly.com> kroin@mcvax4.d48.lilly.com writes:
>I own a 1977 Boston Whaler 5.2 Harpoon that has lots of equipment,

My previous boat was a 5.2 Harpoon, and I absolutely loved that
boat.  A hellava boat, made with the usual Boston Whaler quality.
Sometimes I wish I had it back for a secondary day sailor around
the bay.  (Although it was good enough to sail to the keys from
here -- an eight day trip, while camping aboard -- but I've got
a few more creature comforts in my current boat.  8^)

No trick to the sail cover.  Just be sure to leave plenty of
room in it; better too big than too small.  I prefer a zipper
on the mast end and twist snaps under the boom.  By all means
leave the battens in.  I too wished for a topping lift at times,
but it wasn't a big deal for me.

BTW, I assume that you're not unstepping the mast each time
you dry-dock it;  Else, I would think that leaving the boom
attached (especially with the main on) would be difficult at
best.

Wish I had had the spinnaker....

Larry Swift                     larry@pdn.paradyne.com
AT&T Paradyne, LG-132           Phone: (813) 530-8605
8545 - 126th Avenue, North
Largo, FL, 34649-2826           She's old and she's creaky, but she holds!
From: jmunro@wyse.wyse.com (Jim Munro x2497)
Newsgroups: rec.boats
Subject: Re: Jet Skis
Date: 27 Jan 93 02:13:44 GMT
Organization: Wyse Technologies San Jose, Ca

Various people write about jet skis:

I'd say that there is nothing wrong with jet skis, the problem such as it
is seems to be with the riders.

As with many power boats, the fact that you can jump in/on, start up, and
zoom off means that too high a percentage of drivers have no boating or
seamanship skills, let alone navigation. 

Sailing craft are more of a challenge to a novice, and you just have to
learn a lot more before you can be a danger to anyone else. They also go
a lot slower.

IN the Monterey Bay, teh group who most hate jetskis are the surfers. There
is nothing quite so intimidating as an airborne jet ski just a few feet
away from you, as you lie clutching a small surf board while up to your neck
in water.

Teh fact that too many riders are guilty of terrorizing surfers, bathers, and
wildlife is the reason they have been banned from much of the Monterey coastline.

Offshore they are a different matter. When I've been several miles out in my
inflatable and occasionally see a whole fleet of jetskis racing across the open
sea, I find them quite attractive and inspiring. I'm sure its lots of fun.

But jumping waves, fify feet from a public beach, or buzzing by rowers in
lightweight rowing shells, or zipping through groups of defensless surfers,
they deserve what they get. And what they get is more  and more restrictions.

Jim Munro
From: nall@ibm12.scri.fsu.edu (John Nall)
Newsgroups: rec.boats
Subject: How is the mast stepped on a Catalina 22??
Date: 21 Jan 93 15:46:02 GMT
Followup-To: rec.boats
Organization: SCRI, Florida State University

Being now very close to buying a used Catalina 22, and having
accepted as inevitable that I'm probably going to have to be
a "trailer-sailor" (God, that sounds demeaning! :-) I have a
question for someone who knows.

How is the mast stepped?  That is, obviously it has to go up
and down to be trailered.  I've had a Hobie 16 in the past, and
of course on that the mast is loose until such time as one is
ready to put it up, whereupon (as I recall) one attaches the
left and right shrouds, sticks the butt in a pivot-area, and by
main force walks it up, holds it, and attaches the forestay.
(Lots of fun for one person, by the way).

Somehow, I feel this is not appropriate for a C-22, but perhaps
I'm wrong.  Could someone tell me how it is done?  E-mail or
posting to the net, whatever is your pleasure :-)

Thanks,

John

-- 
John W. Nall              | Supercomputer Computations Research Institute
nall@mailer.scri.fsu.edu  | Florida State University, Tallahassee, Florida
  "Why yes, as a matter of fact, I DID vote for Hillary!!" - me
From: hanners@oasys.dt.navy.mil (Robert Hanners)
Newsgroups: rec.boats
Subject: Re: Daggerboard design question
Date: 23 Jan 93 00:35:17 GMT
Reply-To: hanners@oasys.dt.navy.mil (Robert Hanners)
Organization: Carderock Division, NSWC, Annapolis, MD

In rec.boats, bwb1@ns1.cc.lehigh.edu (BRENT W. BENSON) writes:
>In article <16B5D12C29.EPLUS17@vmd.cso.uiuc.edu>, EPLUS17@vmd.cso.uiuc.edu
>(Richard Engelbrecht-Wiggans) writes:
>>I was hoping to tap into the net wisdom for help in designing
>>a daggerboard for my sailing dinghy.
>                                                            Your full 16"
>width by 23" length gives about 30% more area which is not quite enough to
>compensate for the decrease of lift coefficient from reducing the aspect ratio
>from 4 to 1.4.  Your boat should still sail decently.

Aw, come on.  A little imagination here.  How about Winglets?  Articulated,
of course.  :-)

-- Bob

------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Robert J. Hanners         "My comments; only mine."          *DIASTOLE* 676673
CD, NSWC, Annapolis, MD                              hanners@oasys.dt.navy.mil
Newsgroups: rec.boats
From: tflynn@encore.com (Tonya Flynn)
Subject: Re: Split rec.boats??
Organization: Encore Computer Corp., Ft. Lauderdale, FL
Date: Wed, 27 Jan 1993 16:47:29 GMT

I, too, vote no split, for all the good reasons the other "no" voters had -
there's too much in common.

                                           |
Tonya (I'd rather be Sailing) Flynn       /|\      6901 W. Sunrise Blvd.
(305/797-2446)                           / | \     Ft. Lauderdale, Fl 33313
"Let's just punch through that        ----------   UUCP:  uunet!gould!tflynn
sand bar"--Crew of Natty Dread          ------     INTERNET: tflynn@encore.com
From: L629159@LMSC5.IS.LMSC.LOCKHEED.COM
Newsgroups: rec.boats
Subject: Re: Wheel steering on small boats (was Re: Boat Show)
Date: 25 Jan 93 14:59:05 GMT
Organization: Lockheed Missiles & Space Company, Inc.


  Just to add to the amusement of this thread -- I have no strong
feelings regarding tiller vs wheel - I've used both. Someday I'd
like to try steering a Viking type vessel, a side mounted steering
oar. Sort of a sideways tiller.  Facing forward, the steersman
has to push to turn to port, pull for starboard.  Worked for them.

Al Moore
Newsgroups: rec.boats
From: dsmith@hplabsz.hpl.hp.com (David R. Smith)
Subject: Re: Jet Skis
Date: Tue, 26 Jan 1993 16:42:27 GMT
Organization: Hewlett-Packard Laboratories Palo Alto,CA
Keywords: Okay, here goes...

In article <1k0snoINNs5@gilligan.East.Sun.COM> mike@gilligan.East.Sun.COM (Mike Roncadori) writes:
>It's kind of strange, but it seems like the sailboaters are the
>nicest to us.  As long as you give them plenty of room, and travel
>at a reasonable speed, they always smile and wave.

Probably because jet skiers tend not to zoom around in sailboats' wakes.
Sometimes jet skiers play remora to power boats.  You set out from the
dock, and two jet skiers come at you and mill around, just waiting for
you to open up the throttle.  When you come up on plane, they weave around
in your wake, sometimes quite close in, to get at the heaviest part of the
wake.

-- 
David R. Smith, HP Labs |   "I like to get my hands dirty,
dsmith@hpl.hp.com       |   because it stimulates my mind."
(415) 857-7898          |        -- Irwin Sobel
From: spikes@hpscit.sc.hp.com (Bill Spikes)
Date: Tue, 26 Jan 1993 19:35:07 GMT
Subject: Re: Jet Skis
Organization: Hewlett-Packard, Santa Clara, CA
From: stefan@leland.Stanford.EDU (Stefan Michalowski)
Subject: Re: Wheel steering on small boats
Organization: DSG, Stanford University, CA 94305, USA
Date: Wed, 27 Jan 93 19:33:22 GMT

In article <30887@castle.ed.ac.uk> wex@castle.ed.ac.uk (John Wexler) writes:
>In article <1jsgbqINN592@morrow.stanford.edu>,
>francis@oas.stanford.edu (Francis Muir) writes:
>|>                                           ...are there not boats
>|> where the wheel turns agianst the direction? Wasn't this the "old-
>|> fashioned" way? ...
>
>The convention has been for a very long time that wheels turn the way
>that we all expect.  ...

I'm still not sure. I was looking at "The Lore of Ships" (by the Swedish
Nordbok group). There are two explicit drawings of 19th century steering
gear: one for a smallish wooden ship, and one for a big steel carrier.
After looking at the page every which-way (including backwards against
the light, in a mirror, with hypercharge and baryon number exchanged, etc.),
it looks to me like the two wheel polarities are different. I'll call
the San Francisco Maritime Museum later on. There is a guy there who
sailed on the "Omega" ("last of the barques") in the Peruvian guano 
trade. He will know.


Stefan
Newsgroups: rec.boats
From: meyer@dbsun.uucp (Don Meyer)
Subject: Re: Jet Skis
Organization: BioMerieux-Vitek, St. Louis Mo.
Date: Wed, 27 Jan 1993 13:00:56 GMT

In article <1993Jan26.015401.4361@megatek.com> tomw@megatek.com writes:
>Should any of you boaters get interested in jet skis (buy, one-time rental,
>or whatever), do *not* be fooled into thinking that they might be safe for
>sub-teenage children to operate.

...truly sad story deleted...

This is a good point.  At least in Missouri, I believe that to drive a 
boat (which at least the sit-down PWCs are classified as) you must be
14 or 16 years old.  Not sure exactly, all I verified was that it would
be many years before I had to worry about letting my 9-year old drive
one -- to his dismay.

If everyone would remember that if it moves faster than you can run,
you can easily hurt or kill yourself, this world would be a bit safer.
Sad that so many people (all of us at one time or other I'm certain) seem
to think that if something is _fun_ like a boat that it's safer than
something that's _serious_ like a punch-press.  Sigh.

Don
-- 
" 'Cause you see son, it's one of my responsibilities as a parent to wean
you from life's joy and prepare you for the relentless heartache that is
adulthood." -- Earl Sinclair to Robbie
    =========================================================
Newsgroups: rec.boats
From: will@ogre.cica.indiana.edu (William Sadler)
Subject: Re: JETSKI GROUP
Organization: Indiana University
Date: Fri, 22 Jan 1993 14:46:39 GMT

In <7800123@hpfcso.FC.HP.COM> jbarnes@hpfcso.FC.HP.COM (R. Jim Barnes) writes:

>Is there a jetski notes group out there or are people just placing them in  
>rec.boats?

Sure there is.  Just subscribe to rec.noise.irritants.rrrrnnnnRRRRnnnnnRRRRnnnn

;-)

Will
--
***************************************************************************
*   _______________\|/_      Will Sadler     will@cica.indiana.edu        * 
*   Laser 44888    /|\                       sadler@iubacs.bitnet         *     
***************************************************************************
From: roy@mchip00.med.nyu.edu (Roy Smith)
Newsgroups: rec.boats
Subject: Re: Wheel steering on small boats (was Re: Boat Show)
Date: 27 Jan 1993 13:40:24 GMT
Organization: New York University, School of Medicine
NNTP-Posting-Host: mchip00.med.nyu.edu

hanners@oasys.dt.navy.mil (Robert Hanners) writes:
> God *knows* what I would have done with a tiller pointing aft!  :-)

Don't ice boats have aft-pointing tillers?
-- 
Roy Smith <roy@nyu.edu>
Hippocrates Project, Department of Microbiology, Coles 202
NYU School of Medicine, 550 First Avenue, New York, NY 10016
"This never happened to Bart Simpson."
Newsgroups: rec.boats
From: will@ogre.cica.indiana.edu (William Sadler)
Subject: Re: Split rec.boats??
Organization: Indiana University
Date: Fri, 22 Jan 1993 21:40:04 GMT

In <1jpjsjINNms@gilligan.East.Sun.COM> mike@gilligan.East.Sun.COM (Mike Roncadori) writes:

>I know this has been hashed over at least once prior, but
>in light of the recent post someone made referring a person
>who asked about jet skis to rec.annoying.irritating.ought.
>to.be.shot, I thought that this newsgroup really needs to
>be split.

I was making a joke (that's why there was a smilie there).

>That way, sailboat people can talk about sailboat things,
>powerboat people can talk about powerboat things, and
>people with personal watercraft can talk about personal
>watercraft things. All without the benefit of someone
>harassing them for their choice of boat type.

I apologize if it appeared to be harassment, but I think you are
taking this whole sailboat v. power boat thing way too
seriously.  I don't mind having to look at a few titles of
articles about power boats as I'm sure people who are strictly
power boaters don't mind looking at the titles of some strictly
sailing articles.

>One of the reasons for not splitting I saw before was that
>some people have an interest in both power and sailboating,
>but that's why newsreaders support multiple groups.

But why have multiple groups if the amount of messages in rec.boats
is not extensive (which it isn't) and if there is some interest
among the readers of keeping both together?

If your reason for wanting to split is just so that you can avoid ever
having to read anything critical of your preferred type of boat, then
I am firmly against splitting.

Will
--
***************************************************************************
*   _______________\|/_      Will Sadler     will@cica.indiana.edu        * 
*   Laser 44888    /|\                       sadler@iubacs.bitnet         *     
***************************************************************************
Newsgroups: rec.boats
From: dwl@watson.ibm.com (David W. Levine)
Subject: Re: split rec.boats??
Date: Sat, 23 Jan 1993 07:36:47 GMT
Disclaimer: This posting represents the poster's views, not necessarily those of IBM
Organization: IBM T.J. Watson Research Center


Another no vote for splitting. It's not as if the volume on the group
is all that large, and a lot of the issues discussed, ranging from
rules of the road, maintenance, weather, etc. would end up being
cross posted, which really makes splits which are too narrow in scope
painful to deal with.

	- David



-- 
David W. Levine --  dwl@watson.ibm.com  -- IBM Thomas J. Watson Research Center
                   -- My Opinions, IBM's hardware. -- 
"Fanaticism consists in redoubling your efforts when you have forgotten your
aim" - George Santayana  
Newsgroups: rec.boats
From: tsai@ecsvax.uncecs.edu (Jeffrey C. Tsai)
Subject: Two-day courses offered by North Sail
Keywords: Is it worth it?
Organization: UNC Educational Computing Service
Date: Tue, 26 Jan 1993 21:54:48 GMT


In this couple months' Crusing World magazine, North Sail has
ad. about their two-day classes on sail handling for $140.
I am one like to learn by doing instead of listing/reading,
but the price is not too bad if it is rated "EXCELLENT!".

Anyone ever attended their classes?  Is it worth it?
Newsgroups: rec.boats