HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: tmurray@socrates.umd.edu (Tony Murray)
Subject: Re: MUD and computer ethics
Organization: University of Maryland University College
Date: Fri, 31 Jul 1992 15:39:19 GMT

michael@iastate.edu (Michael M. Huang) writes:

>In <1992Jul31.022251.14641@leela.cs.orst.edu> downsj@atlantis.CS.ORST.EDU (jason downs) writes:

>>you have NO rights. none at all. any MUD can be compiled to log *everything*
>>that *everyone* types. there's no way to tell that a particular MUD is,
>>or is not, set up in this fashion, and it is ABSOLUTELY whithin the admins
>>right to do this.

>you have NO rights. none at all.  any PHONE COMPANY can be setup to log
>*everything* that *everyone* says. there's no way to tell that a particular
>PHONE COMPANY is, or is not, set up in this fashion, and it is ABSOLUTELY....

[stuff about the tech age and the erosion of rights]

This is a little silly (maybe a lot silly).

I've seen folks liken a MUD to a phone system and it just
ISN'T like one at all.  It is a VERY inaccurate analogy.
Here's why (referring only to the US in this case):

The phone system is a service that a company providings for a 
fee and there are inherent (or implied) securities involved.  
The phone companies also have certain legal guidelines
they must follow.

A better analogy for a MUD is my house.  If I set tape
recorders up in my house and run them 24 hours a day, and you 
come over and hold a conversation with a friend in a
dining room, I am still within my rights to record that
conversation.  I *should* inform you.  It's an ethical
responsibility.  But I don't HAVE to.

If I own a large computer system and it is connected to the
net, and if I allow people to connect to that system, I still
own the system.  If I run a game and allow people to connect
to it, I still own the system.  And guess what? I get to
do with my system whatever the heck I want to do.  It is
my *ethical* responsibility to inform folks that logging is
happening (were it happening), but I do get the right to
do that.  

-- 
--Tony Murray (tmurray@socrates.umd.edu)
  Graphics Illustrator
  University of Maryland University College

Xref: sparky rec.games.mud.admin:194 rec.games.mud.lp:2548
Newsgroups: rec.games.mud.admin,rec.games.mud.misc
From: cks@hawkwind.utcs.toronto.edu (Chris Siebenmann)
Subject: Re: Islandia database wanted...
Organization: Ziebmef home away from home
Date: 21 Jul 92 07:01:24 GMT

dcook@spam.ua.oz (David Cook) writes:
| Exactly _which_ Unters are connected to [Islandia] ?

 Islandia is directly connected only to ChrisMUD. ChrisMUD itself
connects to at least WanderLand, plus a horde of probably out of date
links. I haven't been maintaining it much recently; my apologies.

 UnterMUD admins interested in establishing some more redundancy
in links can contact me if they want to set something up.

--
"SVR4 much more resembles a high-speed collision between SVR3 and
 SunOS--you can find bits and pieces of both systems in unlikely places,
 some intact while others are barely recognizable."	- Dick Dunn
cks@hawkwind.utcs.toronto.edu	           ...!{utgpu,utzoo,watmath}!utgpu!cks
Newsgroups: rec.games.mud.admin
From: brumleve@hermes (Danny Brumleve)
Subject: Re: more on problem players
Organization: University of Illinois at Urbana
Date: Thu, 30 Jul 1992 22:42:43 GMT

<K111114@ALIJKU11.BITNET> writes:

>> ... i froze him ...

>interesting :) what exactly does this command do. (I know, add_action("no_way",
>"",1) ... but I'd like to hear what message the victim gets :)
>herp.

     'Freeze' makes it so they can't type anything... They get a 'You can't
move.' message when they do.  This is rather off-subject though... ;)

-Jhalavar-
Newsgroups: rec.games.mud.admin
From: whale@leland.Stanford.EDU (Stephen Schmidt)
Subject: Re: MUD and computer ethics
Organization: DSG, Stanford University, CA 94305, USA
Date: Fri, 31 Jul 92 19:00:25 GMT

In article <fortony.712603928@murphy> fortony@sonne.cso.uiuc.edu writes:
>In other words, a mud is not bound by legal guidelines because
>it's not bound by legal guidelines.

No. A MUD is not bound by the same legal guidelines as the phone company
because it's not the phone company (and differs in several important
respects).

>
>Let's say I'm a high-level systems administrator working for a
>university (I'm not).  The university owns the machines, but I,
>in my role of systems administrator, act in the university's
>capacity as the owner and maintainer of the machines.
>
>A user receives e-mail.  Do I have a right to read that e-mail?
>
>A user sets a file 000 and names it 'DO_NOT_READ'.  Do I have
>a right to go in with root and look at it?
>
The answers are, yes and yes. There was a minor stink made here at
Stanford about five years ago when the sysadmins of a campuswide
computer (now disconnected) revealed that they habitually copied
everyone's file, including mail, and periodically read them to make
sure nothing heinous was being plotted. Many people were unhappy but
(I believe, memory may fail me) it turned out that the sysadmins were
completely within their rights.

This episode is about five years old, so the law may have shifted under it.
If people are really curious, they should read through the aforementioned
ECPA and see what they find. (At least, it got to my site before I posted
this note.) If someone does that, and gets a conclusive answer, could they
post it? Thanks.
-- 
Steve Schmidt			<><		   whale@leland.stanford.edu

"We have met the enemy and he is us" - Walt Kelly
From: scg@mentor.cc.purdue.edu (Scott Goehring)
Newsgroups: rec.games.mud.admin
Subject: Re: FAQ on bugs
Date: 21 Jul 92 13:25:10 GMT
	<1992Jul20.233357.3293@ccu1.aukuni.ac.nz>
	<1992Jul21.012012.27748@leland.Stanford.EDU>
Reply-To: scg@mentor.cc.purdue.edu
Organization: Society for the Prevention of National Mudding Associations

whale@leland.Stanford.EDU (Stephen Schmidt) writes:

>On a rec group the procedures for making a FAQ are much tighter than
>they are on an alt group, where anything posted that calls itself a
>FAQ is one...

This is all patent nonsense.  While you're permitted and encouraged to
register FAQs with Jonathan Kamens, you don't have to.  There are alt
groups whose FAQs are x-posted with news.answers (alt.atheism comes to
mind).  Anyway, you do NOT have to originally register your FAQ with
Mr. Kamens or x-post it to news.answers...  Just post the working
drafts here for now.  After you get all the little mites worked out,
THEN submit it to Mr. Kamens and news.answers.

>The news group that you are supposed to crosspost draft FAQs to is
>called news.answers, and you can read through it to see some sample
>FAQs from other newsgroups.

There is *NOTHING* wrong in drafting a FAQ without involving
news.answers or Mr. Kamens.  In fact, from a brief reading of the
news.answers intro and guidelines, you should already have a working
FAQ before you submit it to Mr. Kamens for approval.

PLEASE READ the intro and guideline sheets for news.answers (available
for FTP from rtfm.mit.edu:pub/usenet/news.answers/new.answers).
--
"No, I don't know that atheists should be considered as citizens, nor should
they be considered patriots.  This is one nation under God."
	-- President George Bush, Chicago, August 27, 1988
Xref: sparky rec.games.mud.admin:185 rec.games.mud.misc:410 rec.games.mud.tiny:141
From: mjr@hussar.dco.dec.com (Marcus J. Ranum)
Newsgroups: rec.games.mud.admin,rec.games.mud.misc,rec.games.mud.tiny
Subject: Re: MUD and computer ethics
Date: 30 Jul 92 18:23:38 GMT
Organization: Digital Equipment Corporation, Washington ULTRIX Resource Center

anipa@cs.tut.fi (Niilo Neuvo) writes:

>I always thought that free speech was a key word in most western
>countries.

	What charming naivete.

mjr.
From: eog@mace.cc.purdue.edu (Vicki Finkenstadt)
Newsgroups: rec.games.mud.admin
Subject: Re: MUD and computer ethics
Summary: I have the ECPA document (Eletronic Communications Privacy Act). It is quite long, but is avaible if you email me.
Date: 31 Jul 92 17:46:32 GMT


In reference to computer ethics and privacy, there is a document
called the ECPA, Electronic Communications Privacy Act, that covers 
a lot. It is long and in lawyerese. Please e-mail me for a copy.
.

-- 
    _____          (#####>
   /     \       (#########)  |\/\/\/|    /\ /\  /\               /\
 \/\/     |      (#########)  |      |    | V  \/  \---.    .----/  \----.
  |  (o)(o)       (o)(o)(##)  |      |     \_        /       \          /
Xref: sparky rec.games.mud.admin:193 rec.games.mud.misc:418 rec.games.mud.tiny:148
From: jon_care@hicom.lut.ac.uk
Newsgroups: rec.games.mud.admin,rec.games.mud.misc,rec.games.mud.tiny
Subject: Re: MUD and computer ethics
Date: 31 Jul 92 00:58:49 GMT
Reply-To: jon_care@hicom.lut.ac.uk
Organization: Hicom Sevices

In article <ANIPA.92Jul30205107@sotka.cs.tut.fi>, anipa@cs.tut.fi (Niilo Neuvo) writes:
>showard@nyx.cs.du.edu (Scott R Howard) writes:
>> that you log and scan the commands for potentially illegal conversations.
>
>What exactly is an illegal conversation? 

For example - passing hackinfo via a mud, (in UK breaking the Computer Misuse
Act)
Also in UK - passing information that contravenes the TeleCommunications Act.
"Net.sex" breaks this law.

>
>I always thought that free speech was a key word in most western
>countries.
It is. But just a word.
>
>++Anipa
>--
>      NN   NN  NN   NN  NNNNNNNN
>    NNNN    N  NN    N  NNNNNN
>  NNNNNN  N    NN  N    NNNN
>NNNNNNNN  NN   NN  NN   NN
>--
From: wiggs@iastate.edu ('Da Wiggs)
Newsgroups: rec.games.mud.admin
Subject: Re: Tinymush and AFS
Date: 24 Jul 92 20:55:12 GMT
Organization: Iowa State University, Ames, IA

In article <1992Jul22.201924.9030@mnemosyne.cs.du.edu> mmullett@nyx.cs.du.edu (Matthew Mullett) writes:
>
>
>Short of shutting down the mush every 24 hrs. login to the account and klog
>to get a token for a new 24 hr period...wouldn't even have to shut down the 
>MUSH from my  experience....
>
>Astinus
>

   Well, my experience with AFS (on my system) tells me that it wont work.
The muck i run (and have ran on AFS) wouldnt save the db to the directory
even if you re-initialize yer tickets. Unfortuantly, you would have to 
encrypt your pw into your MU* and have IT re-init your tickets. 

  I am glad that i am now running mine under NFS.. havent had any probs :)

                     
Beldin@Infinity's End
Beldin@TimeTraverler
Beldin@(most other places too :})
From: sundog@ecst.csuchico.edu (Mark Stone)
Newsgroups: rec.games.mud.admin
Subject: UNTERs, Islandia, characters
Date: 21 Jul 92 18:37:16 GMT
Reply-To: sundog@amber.ecst.csuchico.edu
Distribution: rec.games.mud.admin
Organization: California State University, Chico


 JohnDoe has a character on an UNTER.  JohnDoe forgets his player#.
 
 There are no guest characters on this UNTER, so JohnDoe cannot
 connect and ask a wizard.

 What should JohnDoe do?
Newsgroups: rec.games.mud.admin,rec.games.mud.misc,rec.games.mud.tiny
From: showard@nyx.cs.du.edu (Scott R Howard)
Subject: MUD and computer ethics
Organization: Nyx, Public Access Unix @ U. of Denver Math/CS dept.
Date: Thu, 30 Jul 92 14:54:14 GMT

Greetings.  

Hypothetical situation:

One of the conditions your system admin gave you when you started your MUD was
that you log and scan the commands for potentially illegal conversations.

OK, now suppose you come across one.   Do you...

a) Simply ignore it and hope it will go away?
b) Tell your system admin?
c) Attempt to notify the system admin of the host these players were 
   calling from?
d) Alert CERT and/or other authorities?
e) Attempt a citizens arrest? (Maybe the first ever on the net) *grin*


Anyway I'd like to hear some thoughts.

******************************************************************************
*                              Howard                                        *
*               Howard or Dark_Lord on most MUDS and BBSs                    *
*               Admin of AfterFive at af.itd.com 9999   128.160.2.249 9999   *
******************************************************************************
Yeah, yeah, yeah, Standard disclaimer here.  I do NOT in any way shape or form
speak for ITD, SRSC, NASA, nor any other organization.   Everything contained
in this mail are my own personal thoughts and opinions.  Flame away.
Newsgroups: rec.games.mud.admin
Subject: Re: More on problem players
From: rossw@ccu1.aukuni.ac.nz (Ross Williamson)
Date: Mon, 27 Jul 1992 03:23:02 GMT
Organization: University of Auckland, New Zealand.
Keywords: problem players

brumleve@atropa (Danny Brumleve) writes:


>     The other day I had a player on who was threatening to send me a bomb
>in the mail if I didn't meet his 'demands', which I didn't let him live
>long enough to state.  He claimed affiliation with MOD, which I believe
>is a hacker organization.  He called in from a local site, and knew
>my name, address, phone number, and age.  For the time being I'm
>not opening any large packages, but my question is: has anyone
>ever had problems with scumbags like this?

Is this serious ( no insult intended ).  A bomb in the mail is a little
heavy... what were his demands to threaten you with a bomb.  All in all
you/we have to think along the lines ....
    Have we talked to the sysadmin do we have his/her agreement to use
the machine.....
    If the answers to the above question is yes tell the sysadmin,  see 
what they think.   You never know this person may just be having a prank
at your expense.

    But a bomb why do people get so emotionally and ego 'lly linked with 
MUD's.....

It's a mystery to me.

Ross.

PS  I'm really curious about these demands that warrent bomb threats.
Newsgroups: rec.games.mud.admin,rec.games.mud.misc,rec.games.mud.tiny
From: ssj@ais.org (Stephen S. Johnston)
Subject: Re: MUD and computer ethics
Organization: UMCC
Date: Fri, 31 Jul 1992 05:00:48 GMT

In article <1992Jul31.022251.14641@leela.cs.orst.edu> downsj@atlantis.CS.ORST.EDU (jason downs) writes:
>In article <1992Jul30.203319.7501@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu>,
>	dvandom@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (David VanDomelen) writes:
>>Basically, you're being asked to wiretap without a warrant.  I 
>>haven't heard of this going to court, it would make an interesting test case.  
>>Exactly what rights do you forfiet when on someone's private system?
>
>you have NO rights. none at all. any MUD can be compiled to log *everything*
>that *everyone* types. there's no way to tell that a particular MUD is,
>or is not, set up in this fashion, and it is ABSOLUTELY whithin the admins
>right to do this.
>
>-- 
>\-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-/
> \           - jason downs -           /\        - downsj@cs.pdx.edu -       /
> / zeppelin/amiga release 2/insane guy \/ led/vasudeva/lord of fear of death \
>/-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-\

So say some people.  To my knowledge, this has not been tested in 
court.  To draw some kind of parallel (or attempt to), can a phone 
company tap your phone because they own the system (used to own 
the phones too)?  
I'm not saying anyone has any right to do anything, just curious.  
A lot people talk about "mud rights" or lack thereof.  As I said, 
I'm not aware of any court cases that would directly apply to 
muds (are there any?). 

==================================================================
Steve Johnston                                Go Blue!
ssj@ais.org                              Webber/Rose & Co. 1993
Steve_Johnston@um.cc.umich.edu          NCAA Nat'l. Champs to be
Bluefront@HeroMud II
================================================================== 

Organization: Freshman, Civil Engineering, Carnegie Mellon, Pittsburgh, PA
Newsgroups: rec.games.mud.admin
Date: Wed, 22 Jul 1992 14:05:24 -0400 
From: "Derrick J. Brashear" <db74+@andrew.cmu.edu>
Subject: Re: Tinymush and AFS

Your AFS tickets expire after 24 hours. I'm not sure exactly what the
solution is, but that's your problem.

-D
Newsgroups: rec.games.mud.admin
From: brumleve@hermes (Danny Brumleve)
Subject: Re: More on problem players
Organization: University of Illinois at Urbana
Date: Wed, 29 Jul 1992 12:08:01 GMT
Keywords: problem players

chena@crs.cl.msu.edu (Antony Chen) writes:

>brumleve@atropa (Danny Brumleve) writes:


>>     The other day I had a player on who was threatening to send me a bomb
>>in the mail if I didn't meet his 'demands', which I didn't let him live
>>long enough to state.  He claimed affiliation with MOD, which I believe
>>is a hacker organization.  He called in from a local site, and knew
>>my name, address, phone number, and age.  For the time being I'm
>>not opening any large packages, but my question is: has anyone
>>ever had problems with scumbags like this?

>Holy shit!  When stuff like this happens, I wonder what the purpose is of
>putting up a mud where people obviously don't enjoy themselves.  Hell, it's
>just a game.  I've had people beg, but I've never had a person threaten
>physical harm.  I'm not exactly sure how seriously you're taking it, but
>I'd like to know.

>****************************************************************************
>MMMMM      MMMMM  Antony Chen aka MELVIN @ University of Michigan, Ann Arbor
> MMMM      MMMM   GO BLUE!!  THE FAB 5 RULES: Mama said knock you out! 
> MMM MM  MM MMM   Mud-related mail: tonychen@engin.umich.edu
> MMM  MMMM  MMM      Personal mail: Antony.Chen@um.cc.umich.edu
> MMM   MM   MMM          Misc mail: tchen@churchst.ccs.itd.umich.edu
>MMMMM      MMMMM  ***********************************************************

     Not all that seriously... I imagine it's probably some low-life playing
a 'joke' on me, but it really freaked me out at the time.  The same guy had
logged on before causing various problems - he knew very little about
MUDs; he was some IRC reject - and didn't have the opportunity to do
much harm besides being generally rude and annoying.  I froze him
after the mail bomb threat (quite a handy command), and he hasn't
been back since. 

-Jhalavar-
From: fsjjp@acad3.alaska.edu (Wow .. What Drugs?)
Newsgroups: rec.games.mud.admin
Subject: RE: FAQ BUGS
Date: 21 Jul 92 20:42:12 GMT
Reply-To: fsjjp@acad3.alaska.edu
Organization: P.A.R.A.N.O.I.A
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.4-a3


        Just my $.02 worth on this subject.  As far as I'm concerned I'd like
        to know about any and all bugs related to LPMud's in the player object
        and parser.  Whether or not they are posted to here or rec.games.mud.lp
        it matters not.  They should be posted so we can fix them.


Corwin
#include AKA <Twix>
#include AKA <Rasputin>
#include BITNET <FSJJP@ALASKA.BITNET>
#include EMAIL <FSJJP@ACAD3.ALASKA.EDU>
Newsgroups: rec.games.mud.admin
Subject: Re: More on problem players
From: rossw@ccu1.aukuni.ac.nz (Ross Williamson)
Date: Mon, 27 Jul 1992 19:57:36 GMT
Organization: University of Auckland, New Zealand.
Keywords: problem players

brumleve@atropa (Danny Brumleve) writes:

>rossw@ccu1.aukuni.ac.nz (Ross Williamson) writes:

>>brumleve@atropa (Danny Brumleve) writes:
    < stuff deleted >


>We've had similar problems with this particular person.  He was on a while
>ago, doing basically obnoxious things, like insulting people for no reason.
>We simply ignored him and he went away.


>>PS  I'm really curious about these demands that warrent bomb threats.

>As I said, I didn't bother to listen to him.  I 'froze' him first. *grin*

"'Froze' him first." the best ploy I've found :)

Your in a sort of sticky situation.  A while ago here we covered the topic
of abusive players.  I'm right in the middle of creating a FAQ entry on this
very subject.  One thing we didn't cover though is physical threats.
How should we as Mud Admins handle it.  
Down here where I admin a mud I've had some ( only a little ) physical 
violence on the part of players but as yet nothing directed at me.  One
of the real questions is that unless your a real tough guy the idea of
someone kicking your face in isn't all that appealing.  ( Well at least not
to me )  What can you do when someone physically threatens you...  ok were
not the police so theres nothing lawful ( directly ) that we can do.
If we block the person from the mud then they might take that as provaction
And in some cases just freezing them could be taken as provacation.
Tricky........

    One thing I wonder is that these players that threaten the admins for 
something (usu. more powers) whether they are actually serious to any degree.
Now I understand that at the time it's worrying but how many of these
players actually carry out their promises (?)  .
    A nice ploy I've used once is that you inform the player that if he/she 
gets the mud shutdown that you will inform all the other players who got
the mud shutdown.  Now this is in some ways dropping to the same level 
but it did work :)  
    
Have other admins had this problem   ????

Ross.
Newsgroups: rec.games.mud.admin
From: brumleve@atropa (Danny Brumleve)
Subject: Re: More on problem players
Organization: University of Illinois at Urbana
Date: Mon, 27 Jul 1992 04:35:20 GMT
Keywords: problem players

rossw@ccu1.aukuni.ac.nz (Ross Williamson) writes:

>brumleve@atropa (Danny Brumleve) writes:


>>     The other day I had a player on who was threatening to send me a bomb
>>in the mail if I didn't meet his 'demands', which I didn't let him live
>>long enough to state.  He claimed affiliation with MOD, which I believe
>>is a hacker organization.  He called in from a local site, and knew
>>my name, address, phone number, and age.  For the time being I'm
>>not opening any large packages, but my question is: has anyone
>>ever had problems with scumbags like this?

>Is this serious ( no insult intended ).  A bomb in the mail is a little
>heavy... what were his demands to threaten you with a bomb.  All in all

When I say he threatened me with sending me a mail bomb, I'm completely
serious, although I doubt his intent to actually do so.  

>    If the answers to the above question is yes tell the sysadmin,  see 
>what they think.   You never know this person may just be having a prank
>at your expense.

I already have.

>    But a bomb why do people get so emotionally and ego 'lly linked with 
>MUD's.....

>It's a mystery to me.

We've had similar problems with this particular person.  He was on a while
ago, doing basically obnoxious things, like insulting people for no reason.
We simply ignored him and he went away.

>Ross.

>PS  I'm really curious about these demands that warrent bomb threats.

As I said, I didn't bother to listen to him.  I 'froze' him first. *grin*
Newsgroups: rec.games.mud.admin
Subject: Re: FAQ on bugs
From: rossw@ccu1.aukuni.ac.nz (Ross Williamson)
Date: Tue, 21 Jul 1992 20:02:08 GMT
 <1992Jul20.233357.3293@ccu1.aukuni.ac.nz> <1992Jul21.012012.27748@leland.Stanford.EDU> <fortony.711745635@lucy>
Organization: University of Auckland, New Zealand.

fortony@sonne.cso.uiuc.edu writes:

>I recommend that if you want to discuss problems with LPMud, you should
>add to the rec.games.mud.lp FAQ and leave the rec.games.mud.admin FAQ to
>common administrative issues.

    I suppose you have a point here not something that I had thought
of.  But in essence this group is for mud administration so yeah......

I'll have the FAQ draft ( what there is of it finished soon )

+-----------------------------------------+--------------------+
| Name   : Ross Williamson                |Auckland University | 
| E-Mail : rossw@ccu1.aukuni.ac.nz        |    New Zealand     |
| Of course these opinions are my own and thank !! for that    |
+--------------------------------------------------------------+
"Holy Zarquon singing fish." Zaphod 
		    - From the Hitchhikers Guide To The Galaxy.
Newsgroups: rec.games.mud.admin
From: gse9k@holmes.acc.Virginia.EDU (Scott Evans)
Subject: God/Wiz commands
Reply-To: thrash@virginia.edu (Scott Evans)
Organization: or lack thereof
Date: Thu, 30 Jul 1992 14:21:55 GMT


>> ... i froze him ...
>
>interesting :) what exactly does this command do. 


While we're at it, I'd be interested to hear what wiz/god commands
people have coded (for esp, but not limited to, dikus) that they
find useful or nifty.  I'm starting to really dig in on the coding
work for our diku, and things like good wiz commands would be nice.



scott
Newsgroups: rec.games.mud.admin