HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: alok@cbnewsi.cb.att.com (alok.vijayvargia)
Subject: Re: Impropriety in soc.culture.tamil vote
Organization: AT&T
Date: Fri, 14 Aug 1992 21:58:16 GMT

In article <1992Aug10.013516.24208@wolves.uucp>, news@wolves.uucp (The Wolfe of the Den) writes:
> In article <susanc.713195435@keckiris> susanc@rice.edu (susan chacko) writes:
> >alok@cbnewsi.cb.att.com (alok.vijayvargia) writes:
> >>I have evidence indicating that there was exhortation in the vote
> >>for this group.
> >
> >This is priceless. Alok taking the high moral position on impropriety 
> >in newsgroup voting???
> >
> >Susan.
> 
> 	I agree.  
> 
You are as prejudiced as Susan is.

What's wrong in taking a moral high ground ?

> 
> If this is what Alok really meant to say, he is telling the absolute
> truth!   

Alas ! How would I be lying ?!!

> I would normally EXPECT the proponents of the group to be
> exhorting folks to vote in favor of the group, wouldn't you?

But not during the vote and not by the organizers associated with the
vote-taker and perhaps even by the vote-taker. Would you ?

> -- 
> Usenet Net News Administrator @ The Wolves Den  (G. Wolfe Woodbury)
> news%wolves@cs.duke.edu     ...duke!wolves!news     "We don't need no
> There is a real person who watches this account.   stinking disclaimers"

Alok
Newsgroups: news.groups
Subject: Re: changing a newsgroup's moderator
From: demon@desire.wright.edu (Stupendous Man)
Date: 12 Aug 92 17:18:28 EST
 <1992Aug11.110323.1585@falcon.aamrl.wpafb.af.mil> <leo.713567749@galaxy>
Organization: Demonic Possesions, Inc.

In article <leo.713567749@galaxy>, leo@ph.tn.tudelft.nl (Leo Breebaart) writes:
> bkottmann@falcon.aamrl.wpafb.af.mil (Brett Kottmann) writes:
> 
>> 	Get a life, get a clue, get a job.
>> 
>> 	Geez.  Should have know that this kind of opposition would occur from
>> some moderators.  Are you that insecure about your moderator position?
> 
> Oh, come *on*. Jonathan has now been accused of wanting to 'censor'
> r.a.erotica, of 'tripping' on his power as moderator, of being insecure
> as moderator (catch the contradiction!) -- what is it with you people?

	Ahhh, but it's different people doing it.  And why are the above three
contradictory or incompatible?

> These stupid insults are uncalled for, and take away much of your side's
> credibility. I don't agree with everything Jonathan says either, but I have
> followed this thread from the beginning, and it is *very* clear that the
> only thing Jonathan is 'guilty' of is of stubbornly maintaining and 
> explaining a position he feels to be right, in a general debate about
> moderator-replacement policies.

	I find offensive his patronizing attitude.  And will respond as above
whenever it goes too far.

> The censorship accusation was so ridiculous I don't think anybody could
> have taken it seriously, but these mean, lowhanded techniques that try 
> to drag Jonathan's own newsgroup and moderating into the discussion almost
> make it look like as if *Jonathan* is the moderator on trial here.

	He chose to assume that position himself.

> Disagree with the man's opinions all you want, but fight above the belt,
> please.

	Willing to remain in the ring if he does.

> I am a moderator, too, by the way. Are you now going to tell me that I 
> am only defending Jonathan because I'm (let's see) an elitist volunteer
> on an insecure power tripping crusade to make everybody obey my wishes?

	No.  Unless that's the reason you are :).

Brett                                                      
_______________________________________________________________________________
Proconsul Computer Consulting                                        CHA-CHING!
Better, Cheaper, Faster					       (Pick any two :)
Disclaimer:								   NOT!
From: jal41820@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (Smiley)
Newsgroups: news.groups
Subject: Re: RFM: rec.arts.erotica
Date: 12 Aug 92 15:20:31 GMT
Organization: University of Illinois at Urbana

jaapjl@tab00.larc.nasa.gov (J Lee Jaap) writes:
:)One question I haven't heard answered:  Are any articles being
:)submitted to r.a.e that haven't received net.rejections?  I don't
:)know what's wrong, but this _could_ be the problem.

I believe a while ago someone started forging approved posts, with
a complaint in there that none of his posts were getting posted. I 
could be wrong, and they may not have been posted for certain reasons,
but I believe the person said he hadn't heard anything back. Note,
I could be totally off base on this; it was quite a while ago and
I'm trying to remember it as best I can.

-- 
        Josh Laff              #     #      
email to: smiley@uiuc.edu     _       _     Hello! I am a signature virus!  
      (217) 356-6079         |#\_____/#|    Join the fun and copy mo*#(*&^!>.
                              \#######/     
Newsgroups: news.groups
From: chip@tct.com (Chip Salzenberg)
Subject: Re: Impropriety in soc.culture.tamil vote (Re: soc.culture.tamil
Date: Tue, 18 Aug 1992 13:31:54 GMT
Organization: TC Telemanagement, Clearwater, FL

According to alok@cbnewsi.cb.att.com (alok.vijayvargia):
>I sincerely have doubts that the votes were cast of free will and conscience.

"Look, we're trying to be reasonable.  So will you vote for s.c.tamil?"
"Okay, okay!  I'll do anything!  Just stop reading me Alok's articles!"
-- 
Chip Salzenberg at Teltronics/TCT  <chip@tct.com>, <73717.366@compuserve.com>
   "Do Rush place weird subliminal backmasked messages in their songs to
 compel unwilling geeks to commit evil .sig atrocities?"  -- Dean Engelhardt
Newsgroups: news.groups
From: chip@tct.com (Chip Salzenberg)
Subject: Re: 2nd RFD: comp.org.aix
Date: Wed, 19 Aug 1992 12:44:39 GMT
Organization: TC Telemanagement, Clearwater, FL

According to mike@pencom.com (Mike Heath):
>Proposed Charter:  comp.org.aix

ONCE MORE:  AIX is an OS, not an organization.

Name it comp.org.iaug or comp.org.aix-users or something like that.

The purpose of a RFD is to **READ** the ensuing discussion.  It's not
just a formality.  Pay attention, Mike.
-- 
Chip Salzenberg at Teltronics/TCT  <chip@tct.com>, <73717.366@compuserve.com>
   "Do Rush place weird subliminal backmasked messages in their songs to
 compel unwilling geeks to commit evil .sig atrocities?"  -- Dean Engelhardt
From: roder@cco.caltech.edu (Brenda J. Roder)
Newsgroups: news.groups
Subject: Re: RESULT: rec.bicycles reorganization passes
Date: 13 Aug 92 21:06:31 GMT
Organization: California Institute of Technology, Pasadena

les@sail.stanford.edu (Les Earnest) writes:


>The basis of the numeric results given above is as follows.
>Votes were collected in three mailboxes, with the following results:
>403  all-yes (those voting in favor of all six proposals),
> 80  all-no (those voting against all six proposals), and
> 44  mixed (those voting for or against individual proposals).


I am sorry I didn't follow this reorg from the beginning and notice
this in the first CFV, but does collecting votes in this manner fit
the 'as easy to vote yes as to vote no' and 'each group must be
voted on separately' parts of the guidelines?   I think the past
method of making each voter vote on each item separately is the better
course for reorganizations.


-- 
-- Brenda (roder@cobalt.caltech.edu)
Thought before action, if there's time.
    _The Edge_  Dick Francis
From: huggins@dss1.austin.ibm.com (Jim Huggins         (8-8305))
Newsgroups: news.groups
Subject: Re: changing a newsgroup's moderator
Date: 12 Aug 92 14:40:05 GMT
Organization: IBM, Austin

Ok.  Let's try proposing a specific set of new rules to handle what
for lack of a better term I'll call a "hostile takeover" of a 
moderated newsgroup.  I always find it much easier to criticize
a specific proposal rather than some vague, ethereal idea.

Disclaimer: I'm literally thinking this up as I type it in.

1) Person interested in assuming new moderator duties contacts
   old moderator and inquires about becoming the new moderator.
   If old moderator agrees, transfer is made with suitable 
   fanfare and process ends.  If old moderator does not agree,
   proceed to step 2.

2) Person conducts a "petition drive".  Person posts a request
   for support for removing the current moderator to relevant
   news groups.  Person must receive (through e-mail) 100 
   messages in support of removing the current moderator 
   within 30 days of the original posting.

3) If petition drive gathers 100 signatures, an official RFD
   for changing the moderator is posted to the usual places
   (including news.announce.newgroups, news.groups, and the
   affected moderated group), along with the petition signatures.

4) Standard RFD/CFV procedure is then followed.

Comments?  Flames?

Disclaimer 2: I don't read rec.arts.erotica, so I don't really care
about the specific case being discussed.  Just trying to codify
some opinions I see forming out there.

---------------------------------------------------
Jim Huggins
From: jlewis@ogicse.ogi.edu (Jeff Lewis)
Newsgroups: news.groups
Subject: Re: RFD: several instrument-specific rec.music groups
Date: 19 Aug 92 20:29:34 GMT
Organization: Oregon Graduate Institute

In article <Bt7pr0.3G7@uunet.uu.net> rsk@aspen.circ.upenn.edu (Rich Kulawiec) writes:
>Proposal C: Create rec.music.drums.
>
>Rec.music.drums would be an unmoderated group for the discussion of drums
>and related percussion instruments.  Perhaps its charter would be "Discussion
>of drums and percussion instrument techniques and equipment".

Probably with little coincidence, the recently started drums mailing list
got off to a grand start, then promptly got bogged down in discussion
about shifting to a digest format or creating a newsgroup instead.

>C is designed to meet a need which seems to arise from time to time; I'm
>unsure whether there are really enough people interested in this, but I
>suppose this is one way to find out.

The drums mailing list is currently undergoing new list euphoria, so it's
too early to tell, but daily traffic of actual drum items (not the above-
mentioned meta-discussions) seems to be averaging 5 - 10 items a day, with
peaks of 15 or so, enough to 'cause unrest to those with over-busy mailboxes.
The list maintainer hasn't had a chance to set up something like listserv yet,
so it's unclear whether optional digestifying would settle that problem.

I would concur with the other fellow, that a better name would be
rec.music.percussion (then it could subsume rec.music.piano ;-) ),
although I don't imagine a name of rec.music.drums would dissuade any
percussionist from participating (after all, we all just like to beat on
things ;-) ).

>Proposal D: Created rec.music.tablature, rec.music.tablature.d and remove
>	alt.guitar.tab.
>

If I could, I'd start a mini-revolution to eliminate over-zealous abbreviation.
(I refer to the `.d' suffix for `discuss').  Actually, I don't see why
discussion can't be held in the `tab' group - is `tab' traffic actually that
high and the discussion sufficiently diverse to merit a separate newsgroup?

>I'm not sure I like the name "tablature" for D; but I couldn't think
>of a better alternative. ("rec.music.words-and-music"?)

Or, more briefly, just `rec.music.music'.  At first the name sounded silly,
but it seems less silly to me the more I look at it.

--Jeff
Newsgroups: news.groups,rec.bicycles
From: marcus@vestek.com (Mark Stephen)
Subject: Re: MTB newsgroup, any interest?
Organization: Vestek Systems
Distribution: na
Date: Thu, 20 Aug 92 17:17:34 GMT

In article <1992Aug19.124826.2911@source.asset.com> parksd@source.asset.com (Don Parks) writes:
>In article <tr.714150227@samadams> tr@samadams.princeton.edu (Tom Reingold) writes:
>>There were many calls for discussion and much discussion, all over the
>>course of MONTHS.  The entire procedure was done by the book.  You guys
>>picked a poor time to complain.  Now you have no one to whom you can
>>direct your flames except yourselves.
>>--
>
>Shut up Tom...  Many of the people that would still like to see a
>rec.mtb group are the same people who pushed for it during the
>discussion period.  Many of these same people voted NO for the split,
>but were out number (obviously).
>
>I would still like to see an mtb group even if it is only in the 'alt'
>hierarchy.  If anyone else is interested (or even if not) could you
>please pass on to me info on how to start newsgroup RFD's, CFV's, etc.
>and/or how to create an 'alt' group.
>
>I'm not looking for independence form the rec.bikers, just another
>option for those of us with strong interests in mountain bikes...
>
>Don (parksd@source.ASSET.com) Juan
>-- 
>

     I think this is a good idea, each day I come in to find 125 plus messages, 
most of which are all road oriented. I am new to this net, and dont know what the
'new' split will be. A good initial split would simply be rec.bicycles.road and
rec.bicycle.mtn ??

     Just my opinion, Marcus
Newsgroups: news.groups
Subject: Re: RFD: several instrument-specific rec.music groups
From: ctuel@zeus.calpoly.edu (Cliff Tuel)
Date: Wed, 19 Aug 1992 05:39:29 GMT
Organization: Cal Poly, San Luis Obispo

rsk@aspen.circ.upenn.edu (Rich Kulawiec) said...
|Proposal B: Create rec.music.bass, and remove alt.guitar.bass.
|
|Rec.music.bass would be a one-for-one unmoderated replacement of
|alt.guitar.bass; perhaps its charter would be "Discussion of electric
|and acoustic bass guitar techniques and equipment".

How about rec.music.bass-guitar?  Your name isn't specific enough;
you might get discussion about bass drums, or which brand of woofer
gives the most bump for rap music.


-- 
Cliff Tuel                   __o o__ 
HP/Apollo System Admin       \( v )/       YELLO & ART OF NOISE mailing lists:
Cal Poly, San Luis Obispo     /___\      Yello-request@polyslo.CSc.CalPoly.edu
ctuel@nike.CalPoly.edu         ^ ^         AoN-request@polyslo.CSc.CalPoly.edu
From: sloane@kuhub.cc.ukans.edu (Bob Sloane)
Newsgroups: news.groups
Subject: Re: changing a newsgroup's moderator
Date: 12 Aug 92 10:37:08 CDT
Organization: University of Kansas Academic Computing Services

In article <1992Aug11.161947.1593@falcon.aamrl.wpafb.af.mil>,
 bkottmann@falcon.aamrl.wpafb.af.mil (Brett Kottmann) writes:
> 	An RFD for replacing the moderator goes *to that moderator*.  By
> definition.  If at this point the moderator doesn't know what's going on, they
> are either dead or ignoring their group and the moderation change should become
> de facto.

Actually, no, it probably wouldn't. The problem is that the RFD is
posted to a moderated group, news.announce.newgroups.  If the n.a.ng
moderator puts an Approved: header in the article and posts it, then
it will not be emailed to the moderator of the group being changed, it
will just show up in the group under discussion.

Where the original article gets emailed is dependant on the order of
the groups in the Newsgroups: header.  If it is emailed to the
moderator of the group being changed and gets posted from there, it
may or may not be an official RFD, since it won't be approved by the
n.a.ng moderator.
-- 
USmail: Bob Sloane, University of Kansas Computer Center, Lawrence, KS, 66045
E-mail: sloane@kuhub.cc.ukans.edu, sloane@ukanvax.bitnet, AT&T: (913)864-0444 
Newsgroups: news.groups
From: langer@aero.org (John V. Langer)
Subject: Re: RFD: comp.graphics.gnuplot
Organization: The Aerospace Corporation, El Segundo, CA
Date: Thu, 13 Aug 1992 17:17:38 GMT

In article <1992Aug11.182130.26299@puma.ATL.GE.COM> rsnyder@atl.ge.com (Bob Snyder) writes:

>Wouldn't this be better off under the gnu.* hierarchy?


I'd love to see Gnuplot be accorded the same prestige and respect as the
FSF products, but since Gnuplot is not an FSF product, it probably is better
being somewhere else.

                                 -- John

-- 
===============================================================================
| langer@aerospace.aero.org  |  jvl@mickey.aero.org  |  langer@130.221.192.10 |
===============================================================================
From: ah335@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Richard Banks)
Newsgroups: news.groups
Subject: Would there happen to be a banking industry discussion newsgroup?
Date: 20 Aug 92 13:43:01 GMT
Reply-To: ah335@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Richard Banks)
Organization: Case Western Reserve University, Cleveland, OH (USA)


I was looking for an alt.banking or misc.banking, but I could not find one.

What is the closest newgroup to this?
Newsgroups: news.groups
From: jaapjl@tab00.larc.nasa.gov (J Lee Jaap)
Subject: Re: changing a newsgroup's moderator
Organization: AS&M Inc
	<CKD.92Aug11195013@loiosh.eff.org>
	<1992Aug12.163402.3406@desire.wright.edu>
Date: Thu, 13 Aug 1992 17:11:19 GMT

In article <1992Aug12.163402.3406@desire.wright.edu> demon@desire.wright.edu (Stupendous Man) writes:

	   Once again we come down to the question, what is wrong with using the
   current RFD/CFV process?

	   Debunking some red herrings:

	   1) The poor moderator doesn't know what's going on.

		   Phooey!  RFDs should be posted to the group in question.  It is
   the job of the moderator to read incoming messages.  Even if they are cowardly
   enough not to post the RFD, they will still have read it.  If they have
   abandoned their post, then they deserve to be voted out.

A post to more than one moderated group needs only one Approved: line.
So if Dave approves it, it won't go to Evan's mailbox.

	   3) Spaf/Dave/God will reject it.

		   Yeah, right.  Don't put words in their mouth.

Dave has rejected the RFD.

	   4) Sysadmins will reject it because it's never been done.

		   Grasping a little, aren't we?

Some will reject it because Dave has rejected it.

	   Any other will-o-wisps that need to be dispelled?

Any other net.misconceptions to be dispelled?

--
J Lee Jaap <jaapjl@tab00.larc.nasa.gov> +1 804/864-2148
employed by, not speaking for, AS&M Inc, at NASA LaRC, Hampton VA 23681
From: sgr@alden.UUCP (Stan Ryckman)
Newsgroups: news.groups
Subject: Re: rec.motorcycles.harley vote acknowledgment
Date: 21 Aug 92 18:06:19 GMT
Organization: Alden Electronics, Westboro, MA

In article <1992Aug20.160100.29390@ncsu.edu> steve@bucolix.ece.ncsu.edu (Steve Garnier) writes:
>I'm glad that you, too, have been able to ID Furr@cup.portal.com as being
>a differnet person that FURRJK@VTVM1.CC.VT.EDU Joel Furr.
   ^^^^^^^^^

Hey, I like it!  A new word, and quite appropriate!
--
This .signature has expired.  Call 1-900-YOU-FOOL to find out why.
    Stan Ryckman   sgr@alden.UUCP
Newsgroups: news.groups
From: nabeel@sce.carleton.ca (Nabeel Ghuzlaan)
Subject: Re: Alternate suggestion for rec.arts.erotica
Organization: Carleton University
Date: Thu, 13 Aug 1992 03:28:39 GMT

cory@enigami.mv.com (Cory Kempf) writes:

>I think that is Chris' point.  We want a moderated r.a.e.  We want
>a high signal to noise ratio.  Unfortunately, the current moderator
>does not seem to be allowing any signal to come through.  And simple
>attemts to discuss the selection of a new moderator are being met
>with cries that it is unfair to even discuss the topic, let alone
>vote in a new moderator.

>So it appears that the only way to do it is to first have a vote to
>make the group unmoderated, and then, once that is accomplished, make
>it moderated again.  

   I think this is a weightless point. Now, since alt.sex.stories was
created what was the signal (forget S/N ratio)? How many NEW stories were
posted? Most posts had nothing to do with the group (e.g. penis size,
oral sex, etc. and the infamous very long signature!) which belonged to
alt.sex.wizard, junk or alt./dev/null. The answer is, you can count them
on your fingers even if you have most of them chopped off! That gives a
S/N below -18 dB.

   The moderator might (and might NOT) have been slow in processing the
scarce submissions and that (if happened) might have frustrated some people.
But to the moderator, he never acted like a freshman/freshwoman.

**Nabeel
--
   "Jordan? Where your country is everybody else's? Wow!"
Newsgroups: news.groups,soc.culture.indian
From: alok@cbnewsi.cb.att.com (alok.vijayvargia)
Subject: Re: Impropriety in soc.culture.tamil vote
Organization: AT&T
Date: Fri, 14 Aug 1992 22:22:07 GMT
Followup-To: news.groups

In article <1992Aug11.150911.9245@coe.montana.edu>, prem@cs.montana.edu (M.P.Premkumar) writes:
> >
> >> If you have any doubts about the votes go ahead and do
> >> the necessary procedures to check the validity of the votes. 
> >
> >In order for me to do that I need access to the voting emails of the 
> >YES voters. Such a request was made more than 15 days back. This information
> >has not been provided despite several repeat requests and a direct email
> >to the vote taker.
> 
> You don't have the right to ask for e-mails that were not sent to you. And 
> nobody is obligated to send you those e-mails. The e-mail addresses were posted 
> in the net right ? Why don't you send mails to all of them asking them whether 
> they really voted YES or NO ?
> 

I have the right to examine this vote and ask for any data associated with it.
Asking me to send 600 people emails asking them whether they really voted 
YES is trying to make it difficult for me to check the validity of 
the vote. I find it more convenient to just look ovr the emails.

Even if I were to send these 600 people emails, they need not reply,
or they may reply but not tell me the truth.

So to me this is not only inconvenient, it is also flawed enough to
validate the votes.

> >Alok
> 
> 
> Sincerely yours,
> M.P.Premkumar

Very Sincerely Yours,

A. Vijayvargia
Newsgroups: news.groups
From: dave@jato.jpl.nasa.gov (Dave Hayes)
Subject: Re: RFD: several instrument-specific rec.music groups
Reply-To: dave@jato.jpl.nasa.gov
Organization: Jet Propulsion Lab - Pasadena, CA
Date: Thu, 20 Aug 1992 20:40:16 GMT

johnf@Auspex.COM (John Fereira) writes:
>If you continue to pursue this I'd recommend a slight change.  Rather than
>put these groups directly under the rec.music hierarchy, put them under
>rec.music.makers and then move rec.music.synth there as well.

Agreed! I second this...as it makes much more sense. In fact:

rec.music.makers.guitar
rec.music.makers.bass	(not just electric players but string bass too)
rec.music.makers.keys
rec.music.makers.percussion
rec.music.makers.wind

...etc...

-- 
Dave Hayes - Network & Communications Engineering - JPL / NASA - Pasadena CA
dave@elxr.jpl.nasa.gov       dave@jato.jpl.nasa.gov         ...usc!elroy!dxh

Community (n.) - 1. Irrationals unified by hope of the impossible.
From: demon@desire.wright.edu (Stupendous Man)
Newsgroups: news.groups
Subject: Re: Much to your relief...
Date: 13 Aug 92 19:19:12 GMT
Organization: Demonic Possesions, Inc.


In article <1992Aug13.142759.21077@dsd.es.com>, pmartz@dsd.es.com (Paul Martz) writes:
> What are you talking about? Please use more descriptive subjects.

	Well, it's right there in front of you:

> In article <1992Aug12.172545.1596@falcon.aamrl.wpafb.af.mil>, bkottmann@falcon.aamrl.wpafb.af.mil (Brett Kottmann) writes:
>> 	George is going to conduct a straw poll to see about r.a.e and I mailed
>> Dave Lawrence to ask him to comment on whether the current RFD/CFV guidelines
>> are sufficient to remove/replace a moderator, so I'll keep quiet until we have
>> the results from these two fact finding missions.
>> 
>> Brett--------------------------------------------------------------------------
>> 	"Why the courts don't tell a husband who has been living off his wife
>> to go out and get a job is beyond my comprehension."--Joan Lunden
>> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------

	Which part didn't you understand?

Brett                                                      
_______________________________________________________________________________
Proconsul Computer Consulting                                        CHA-CHING!
Better, Cheaper, Faster					       (Pick any two :)
Disclaimer:								   NOT!
Newsgroups: news.groups