HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: irakliot@longs.LANCE.ColoState.Edu (Leo J. Irakliotis)
Subject: Re: Rob West + Steve Anderson
Date: Tue, 26 Jan 1993 18:38:55 GMT
Reply-To: irakliot@lance.colostate.edu
Organization: Engineering Network Services, Colorado State University

In article <1k2qqhINNbmc@usenet.INS.CWRU.Edu>, bu008@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Brandon D. Ray) writes:

|> With these revisions, it seems even clearer that Macedonia has no aggressive
|> intent.  What more could anyone possible want?  Does *Greece* have a provision
|> in *its* Constitution promising "not to interfere in the sovereign rights of
|> other states and their internal affairs"?

To begin with your later question, yes.

But of course Greece is not the issue here. Perhaps you missed the fact
the the FYRM consitution still referes to Macedonians in neighboring
countries. There are no "macedonians" in neighboring countries, yet they
persist on that.

|> But this is all *really* silly.  Does anyone actually think Macedonia could
|> be a threat to Greece?  Do you people realize that if Macedonia *did* attack
|> Greece that this would trigger the NATO Alliance, and that, in effect, 
|> Macedonia would be attacking not just Greece, which is merely 10 ten
|> times their size, but also Germany, the UK, Spain, Italy, Norway, the
|> United States, etc.?  Can you say "suicide"?  I knew you could....

And what about if FYRM joints NATO? Or WEU? Any ideas?

-- 
Leo J Irakliotis                 irakliot@eva.lance.colostate.edu
-----------------------------------------------------------------
Electrical Engineering                      l.irakliotis@ieee.org
Colorado State U
(303) 491-2021                              Optical Computing Lab
Newsgroups: soc.culture.greek,soc.culture.europe,soc.history
From: pef@dcs.qmw.ac.uk (Panayotis Fouliras; TA PhD)
Subject: Re: Errors (?) in the greek approach in the Macedonian issue.
Organization: Computer Science Dept, QMW, University of London
Date: Wed, 27 Jan 1993 20:38:47 GMT

In <1993Jan26.144312.2728@cbnewsl.cb.att.com> stank@cbnewsl.cb.att.com (Stan Krieger) writes:
[..]
>And while we're at it, I believe there is a Luxembourg province in
>Belgium (that is, a case of one country stealing an entire country's
>name, and not just a region).   Shouldn't NATO or the UN send in
>peacekeepers to make sure that Luxembourg, the country, is protected
>from the expansionist Belgians?
[..]

Although I am tired repeating it from time to time, here it is
for arguments of this sort:

[1] The longest war in history is known as the 100 years war,
between England (today's Britain) and France over Britany. Now
a name implied a lot for both...

[2] It is only those of the Slavs in Skopje who keep on
insisting that "Macedonia" (and all coming with it) is theirs,
that Greeks oppose. The rest of the Slavs, Gypsies, Greeks and
especially Albanians (they claim to be ~40%) we have no
problems with.

[3] Assume that Greeks are ridiculous and should not insist in
the name issue. Why don't you ask yourself, why don't Skopjans
change their country's name, showing (at least) moral
superiority and sense?

Panayotis
--
UUCP:      pef@qmw-dcs.uucp  | Computer Science Dept    | "H Rwmania
Internet:  pef@dcs.qmw.ac.uk | QMW University of London |  kai an
JANET:     pef@uk.ac.qmw.dcs | Mile End Road            |  eperasen,
Voice:     +44 71 975 5220   | London E1 4NS            |  anthei kai
FAX:       +44 81 980 6533   |                          |  ferei kai
Cellphone: Too expensive to fit                            allon"

Xref: sparky soc.culture.greek:12601 soc.culture.europe:11454 alt.news.macedonia:281
From: irakliot@longs.LANCE.ColoState.Edu (Leo J. Irakliotis)
Subject: Re: Ellemann-Jensen on Macedonia
Date: Fri, 22 Jan 1993 01:23:19 GMT
Reply-To: irakliot@lance.colostate.edu
Organization: Engineering Network Services, Colorado State University

In article <JTSILLA.93Jan21131720@damon.ccs.northeastern.edu>, jtsilla@damon.ccs.northeastern.edu (James Tsillas) writes:
|> 
|> Despite Ellemann-Jensen's irritation Greece will probably continue to
|> maintain its position. 

It would be also interesting to note that the Danish minister is on hios way
out following the Danish governement recently resigned.

|> This is not due to xenophobia (as anyone who
|> knows Greece can see through this, immediately) 

Actually Greece is one of the few EC members with no nationalist or
neo-facism movements. Germany, UK, France, Danmark are facing problems
with extreme right wing opposition to EC union. 

-- 
Leo J Irakliotis                 irakliot@eva.lance.colostate.edu
-----------------------------------------------------------------
Electrical Engineering                      l.irakliotis@ieee.org
Colorado State U
(303) 491-2021                              Optical Computing Lab
Xref: sparky soc.culture.greek:12369 soc.culture.netherlands:5907 soc.culture.turkish:14625 soc.culture.usa:9966 soc.culture.soviet:12280
From: mixalHs
Newsgroups: soc.culture.greek,soc.culture.netherlands,soc.culture.turkish,soc.culture.usa,soc.culture.soviet
Subject: Re: The Chairman Of EC says:
Date: 21 Jan 93 16:23:12 GMT
Organization: Royal Institute of Technology, Stockholm, Sweden

In article <1993Jan21.141634.16716@kth.se>, hilmi-er@teppo.enet.dec.com  writes:
|> 
|> 
|> Ulle Elleman Jensen , Foreign Minister
|> of Denmark, the chairman of EC said yesterday, 20/01/93:
|> 
|>    " I'm shamed of EC because it's bounded
|>      from Greece to not recognize Macedonia, EC must
|>      recognize Macedonia at once..."
|> 
|> The black sheep of EC, Greece, continues it's
|> disruption in EC and the government of Greece
|> has make the Macedonian issue to a sleeping-tablet
|> for the Greek people to hide Greece's lousy economy.
|> 
|> 
|> 
|> 
|> Hilmi Eren
|> Stockholm University
|> Sweden
|> 
milaei h Dania gia Ellada... pws leme:
eipe o ga.i.daros ton peteino kefala!
an kapoia xwra dhmiourgei problhma sthn eok einai
h Dania kai oxi h Ellada (pws len mastrixt;)

mixalHs
From: c23st@kocrsv01.delcoelect.com (Spiros Triantafyllopoulos)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.greek
Subject: re: ONOMA TOY NEWSGROUP ! !
Date: 21 Jan 1993 08:10:11 -0600
Organization: Delco Electronics Corporation
NNTP-Posting-Host: cs.utexas.edu

kilitzir@cyprus.csd.uch.gr (Kilitzirakis christos 122) writes:

>    Den mou lete re paidia....Pios euthinetai gia to onoma autou
>tou newsgroup (Nai, nai gia to greek milaw) ? Kala ama to onoma to 
>ebgale kanenas ellinas, milame gia poli xeftila.Ama to ebgale kanas
>barbaros (pas mi ellin barvaros... Hah hah) tote pali xeftila...

(in english, who's responsible for naming soc.culture.greek 
soc.culture.greek?)

The answer is quite interesting and goes back lots of time. In 1983,
when I started reading news on our school (Univ of Southwestern 
Louisiana) there were VERY FEW soc.culture groups. There was from what
I remember a soc.culture.greek, soc.culture, soc.culture.jewish,
soc.culture.celtic (gaelic maybe) and that's it. Even groups with
immense popularity (soc.culture.indian for example) came later.

If one believes the charter of soc.culture.greek, it was intended
for use by 'Greeks', i.e. university fraternity members. This may
not make sense outside the US, but fraterniny members often call
themselves 'Greeks' and their fraternities (a kind of social 
organization or club within a college) most of the time get Greek
letter names, i.e. "Alpha Beta Chi", etc. The colloquial term
for fraternity members is 'Greeks' and soc.culture.greek was
APPARENTLY created for that purpose.

This is my own opinion of course. The time scg was created there was
NO other ethnic soc.culture group around (indian, turkish, german, etc)
and only a couple of religious or other groups (jewish). I don't
think I ever saw a fraternity related article on soc.culture.greek
so there's a good chance I'm wrong, but I don't think it was intended
for Hellenes. 

So, add one for the barbarian Greeks overtaking a newsgroup. If anyone
else has better information pls. let us know...


Spiros
-- 
Spiros Triantafyllopoulos                    c23st@kocrsv01.delcoelect.com
Software Technology, Delco Electronics       (317) 451-0815
GM Hughes Electronics, Kokomo, IN 46904      [A Different Kind of Disclaimer]
Newsgroups: soc.culture.greek
From: scg@bashan.cs.wisc.edu ( Scg)
Subject:  TESTarw kai goustarw
Organization: U of Wisconsin Madison - Computer Sciences
Date: Wed, 27 Jan 1993 09:32:50 GMT

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From U42213%UICVM.BitNet@vms.macc.wisc.edu  Wed Jan 27 00:18:34 1993
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Date: Wed, 27 Jan 93 00:16:54 CST
From: John Zotalis <U42213%UICVM.BitNet@vms.macc.wisc.edu>
Subject: TESTarw kai goustarw
To: soc-culture-greek-post

Ante-

Euhome na douleuei to mail sou enteli.

-Yiannis Zwtalis
u42213@uicvm


Newsgroups: soc.culture.greek,alt.news.macedonia
From: cla04@seq1.keele.ac.uk (A.T. Fear)
Subject: Re: Ellemann-Jensen on Macedonia
Organization: Keele University, England
Date: Tue, 26 Jan 1993 10:45:56 GMT

From article <Jan25.195215.58555@yuma.ACNS.ColoState.EDU>, by irakliot@longs.LANCE.ColoState.Edu (Leo J. Irakliotis):
> In article <C1Ez3H.C8C@gabriel.keele.ac.uk>, cla04@seq1.keele.ac.uk (A.T. Fear) writes:
> 
> |> Is there any *evidence* for such acts being plotted? Let's remember
> |> Greece is a huge country compared to Macedonia.
> 
> Of course they are. How would you explain the fact that in Skopje there are
> maps of the FYRM incorporating parts of northern Greece, all the way down to
> Mt. Olympus?

And are they produced by the government - no. I dare say in Greece you
can find maps produced by Enosis fascists showing Cyprus as part of
Greece. It would be silly to use these as evidence of the intentions of
the Greek government. Your argument is of the same ilk.


 And how would you explain the claims of the communist FYRM
> goverment that the "macedonian" minority is oppressed in Greece. However
> such a minority doesn't exist.

Funny because the rest of the world (take for example the Minority
Rights Group) seems to think such a group does exist. Recent persecution
of some of its members on serves to aid such claims (if they still
exist) -,time for a little of that rare Balkan commodity tolerance?
> 
> |> Now what would Vlachs and the Turks of Western Thrace make of that I
> |> wonder... There are no ethnic nations any more, and thank god for that.
> 
> There are no turks in Western Thrace. If you refer to Muslim Greeks, please
> be consistent. And yes, there are ethnic nations, still. Just because you
> don't leave in one of them doesn't mean they do not exist.

Doesn't that just say it all...


Andy
Xref: sparky soc.culture.greek:12495 alt.news.macedonia:191
From: miscord@mullian.ee.mu.oz.au (Michael Scordilis)
Subject: Demirel threatens Cyprus
Organization: Electrical and Electronic - University of Melbourne 
Date: Tue, 26 Jan 1993 11:30:36 GMT


From NEOS KOSMOS, Monday 25/1/93

Demirel: "The Cypriots may regret the day they were born from their mothers".
Open threats from Turkey.  They do not discount even a military intervension.

ATHENS. Sunady. - While the Turkish PM Suleiman Demirel makes unprecedented
threats against the Greeks of Cyprus, the Turkish Chief of Staff appealed
for "dialog and peace" with Greece (a gesture indirectly rejected by the 
Greek General Staff).

Demirel threatened with a new military invasion emphasizing that "the Adana
airport is only 5 minutes away from Cyprus".  The Turkish PM speaking at the
Istanbul Rotary Club also said that NOTHING can take place on the island if
his country does not allow "because Cyprus is the prestige and pride of
Turkey".  

The statements of the Turkish PM caused immediate reactions from Athens. The
Foreign Ministyr spokesman called them unacceptable, provocative and 
unjustified and he said that they come at a moment when our region is going
through severe strains which necessitates prudence.  

"Milliet" also wrote that nothing can happen in Cyprus without Turkey's 
approval. 

A few days earlier a particularly severe resolution of the European Parliament
condemned Turkey and asked her to remove her occupation troops from Cyprus. 

================

Mihalis

 
Adana 
Michael Scordilis	   	|internet    miscord@mullian.ee.mu.OZ.AU
Xref: sparky soc.culture.greek:12560 alt.news.macedonia:249
From: cla04@seq1.keele.ac.uk (A.T. Fear)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.greek,alt.news.macedonia
Subject: Re: Rob West + Steve Anderson
Date: 27 Jan 93 13:13:04 GMT
Organization: Keele University, England

From article <Jan26.183855.38535@yuma.ACNS.ColoState.EDU>, by irakliot@longs.LANCE.ColoState.Edu (Leo J. Irakliotis):
> 
> But of course Greece is not the issue here. Perhaps you missed the fact
> the the FYRM consitution still referes to Macedonians in neighboring
> countries. There are no "macedonians" in neighboring countries, yet they
> persist on that.

Perhaps they are deluded by the fact that in Greece some Macedonians
have recently been put on trial...

Andy
Xref: sparky soc.culture.greek:12693 soc.culture.europe:11517 soc.history:11065
From: J.Theodore.Schuerzinger@dartmouth.edu (J. Theodore Schuerzinger)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.greek,soc.culture.europe,soc.history
Subject: Re: Errors (?) in the greek approach in the Macedonian issue.
Date: 29 Jan 93 01:28:55 GMT
 <1993Jan27.023852.23320@usage.csd.unsw.OZ.AU>
Organization: Dartmouth College, Hanover, NH
X-Posted-From: InterNews1.0a5@newshost.dartmouth.edu

In article <1993Jan27.023852.23320@usage.csd.unsw.OZ.AU>
trevore@vast.unsw.edu.au (Trevor Elbourne (Supr. Hell) BE) writes:

> : 
> : But the point is that Greece *is* blockading Macedonia.  If they want
> : to have a province in their own country called Macedonia, fine.  If
> : Bulgaria wants to do so, too, that's fine as well.  And if this former
> : republic of Yugoslavia wants to keep its name (Macedonia), that's fine
> : too.  They shouldn't be blockaded in an attempt to be forced into
> : changing their name.  Note that the Greeks on the net don't admit to
> : the blockade against Macedonia.
> : 
> 
> 	Greece is not blockading Skopjia. 
                            ^^^^^^^

Er, there's no country by this name -- that's what this whole dispute
is about!

--Ted Schuerzinger
email: .zed@Dartmouth.EDU
From: ptg2351@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (Panos Tamamidis )
Subject: Re: Rob West + Steve Anderson
Organization: University of Illinois at Urbana
Date: Wed, 27 Jan 1993 20:34:01 GMT

cla04@seq1.keele.ac.uk (A.T. Fear) writes:

>From article <Jan26.183855.38535@yuma.ACNS.ColoState.EDU>, by irakliot@longs.LANCE.ColoState.Edu (Leo J. Irakliotis):
>> 
>> But of course Greece is not the issue here. Perhaps you missed the fact
>> the the FYRM consitution still referes to Macedonians in neighboring
>> countries. There are no "macedonians" in neighboring countries, yet they
>> persist on that.

>Perhaps they are deluded by the fact that in Greece some Macedonians
>have recently been put on trial...

 And so, the remaining 999,998 (they claim that 1,000,000 Macedonians exist in
 Greece!) has shut up!!

>Andy

 Panos Tamamidis
From: c23st@kocrsv01.delcoelect.com (Spiros Triantafyllopoulos)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.greek
Subject: re: Greek Philosophy is a joke
Date: 26 Jan 93 03:35:08 GMT
Article-I.D.: kocrsw06.9301261534.AA10369
Organization: Delco Electronics Corporation
NNTP-Posting-Host: cs.utexas.edu

agscrib@afterlife.ncsc.mil (Arthur Scribner) writes:

  Why are the Greeks given credit for the development of Philosophy as a 
  science. They had no contribution science of Philosophy, because the tenets
  of Philosophy were laid down thousands of years before the Greeks were even
  cognizant of themselves. The formalization of Philosophical thought and
  ideology was developed by the Ancient Egyptians from whom the Greeks merely
  plagarized. These early African people educated the Greeks, who were at that
  time known as the Pyrhennians, and gave them there culture. I just don't
  appreciate the way the history books have been rigged to perpetuate this 
  myth of Greek Philosophy.
  
  Arthur

So, 'Arthur', if the Ancient Egyptians were so smart, how come they did
not have Cable TV?

PS: nice spelling and grammar, too. 

Spiros
-- 
Spiros Triantafyllopoulos                    c23st@kocrsv01.delcoelect.com
Software Technology, Delco Electronics       (317) 451-0815
GM Hughes Electronics, Kokomo, IN 46904      [A Different Kind of Disclaimer]
From: nextug@ac.dal.ca
Newsgroups: soc.culture.greek
Subject: Re: Mt. Athos
Date: 24 Jan 93 15:08:40 GMT
Organization: Dalhousie University, Halifax, Nova Scotia, Canada

Thanks to George Kardaras (kardaras@en.ecn.purdue.edu) for his
excellent post on Mt. Athos. One addendum:
	Apparently in exception to the prohibition of all things
female on the Mt. Athos peninsula, female cats and rabbits are
allowed by the monastic authorties. Cats & rabbits??
"Curiouser & curiouser," Charles Dodgson might say.
From: palios@geom.umn.edu (Leonidas Palios)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.greek
Subject: Mnemonic for 3.14159...
Date: 27 Jan 93 02:41:04 GMT
Article-I.D.: news2.C1HrGD.48y
Organization: The Geometry Center


I remember in high school, someone showed me a GREEK mnemonic rule
for the first few digits of $\pi = 3.14159...$
(I saw it within the last year somewhere in the net, but...)
It started as follows:
"Aei o 0eos o megas gewmetrei ..."
  3  1  4   1   5       9
and it was going on for another 6 or 8 digits...

Can someone send me the missing part?
Do you know who invented it?   Does it date back to the era of ancient
greek mathematicians, or was it produced the last couple of centuries?

Xilia eyxaristw
Lewnidas
Newsgroups: soc.culture.greek
From: schoinas@fox.cs.wisc.edu (Yannis Schoinas)
Subject: Re: Linovambakoi (Re: Turkish Cypriots reject ENOSIS)
Keywords: Ali Pasas, The King, Makarios, Chrysostomos, Vasiliu, Enosis, Palikaria, Akritas
Organization: U of Wisconsin Madison - Computer Sciences
Date: Tue, 26 Jan 1993 09:15:30 GMT

ptg2351@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (Panos Tamamidis ) writes:

>terziogl@ee.rochester.edu (Esin Terzioglu) writes:

>>In article <C19xKI.Gxs@news.cso.uiuc.edu> ptg2351@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (Panos Tamamidis ) writes:
>>>terziogl@ee.rochester.edu (Esin Terzioglu) writes:
>>>
>>>>2) When Ottomans conquered Cyprus, they enslaved women and put them in
>>>>   their harems. Hey Panos, check it out man, you could be a descendent of
>>>>   one of those. This "enslaving women" was done in mainland Greece as well.
>>>>   So if there is anyone out there who claims that he/she is pure Greek,
>>>>   he/she had better trace his/her family line back to fifteenth century.
>>>
>>> According to the above statement, some Turks should be checking if they
>>> are descentants of Greeks, not the other way you are suggesting.

>>Also, according to above, MANY Greeks should be checking if they are     
>>descendants of Turks!!! It goes both ways Mr.Tamamidis. Think it over, 
>>ive it another try, you will find out that it indeed goes both ways!!

> Nope. It does not. Have you ever heard about "genitsarous?"  These were
> Greeks raised by Turks.  The Ottomans would take any babys of "enslaving
> women" and raise them as Turks.

Actually, you are not correct. Janissaries were kids taken out of christian
families and during the first centuries of the Ottoman were not allowed to 
marry. Later on, when the central authority weakened, muslims were accepted
into the corps and the janissaries were allowed to raise families. At that
point, they became more of a cast than a military corps and their power as
a military unit was lost.

							 Bye,
							Yannis.
Newsgroups: soc.culture.greek
From: ptg2351@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (Panos Tamamidis )
Subject: Re: writings on mount 5-dactylos
Organization: University of Illinois at Urbana
Date: Wed, 27 Jan 1993 21:04:50 GMT

c23st@kocrsv01.delcoelect.com (Spiros Triantafyllopoulos) writes:

>Varnavas Lambrou asked about the writings on the Mount Pentadactylos
>and Besime Erin responded:

>> One of them is "Ne mutlu Turkum diyene!" which means: 
>> "How happy I am to be a Turk!" so its meaning is just that.

>Do you folks mean to say that high in the mountain Pentadactylos
>there's huge letters (reminiscnent of   H O L L Y W O O D   in
>Los Angeles) that write out these message(s)? How big are these
>writings? Distance they can be seen from? etc?

 Yes, like "H O L L Y W O O D," only that the letters are bigger;  
 Together with a large Turkish flag painted on the ground, so that
 it can be seen from miles away.

 To me, it seems that the only reason for having these symbols are to
 provoke the Greek-Cypriots.  Now imagine how delighted the refugees
 from the north part of Cyprus feel when they read:"How happy I am
 to be a Turk!"  Or imagine the relatives of the MIO's (1,600+ are 
 still missing) to have to read the same thing every day.
 Wonderfull, isn't it?

 A more correct writing would be:"Ne mutlu pezeveng diyene!"
 Which means: "How happy I am to be a pimp!"

>Spiros

 Panos Tamamidis
Xref: sparky soc.culture.greek:12577 alt.news.macedonia:257
From: cla04@seq1.keele.ac.uk (A.T. Fear)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.greek,alt.news.macedonia
Subject: Re: Rob West + Steve Anderson
Date: 26 Jan 93 19:26:28 GMT
Organization: Keele University, England

From article <1k2qqhINNbmc@usenet.INS.CWRU.Edu>, by bu008@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Brandon D. Ray):
>>
>>    Article 49:
>>    "The R of M cares for the status and rights of macedonian people in
>>     neighboring countries as well as immigrants from the R of M; helps
>>     their cultural progress and [develops] ties with them. The R of M
>>     cares for the cultural and economic rights of its citizens abroad."
>>
>>[Comment: This article sets the groundwork for the expansionism of
>>articles 3 and 74. Note that the neighboring countries Greece, Bulgaria
>>(and perhaps Serbia?) refuse the existence of a "Macedonian" nationality.]
>>
> Does Greece maintain no ties and provide no help in the cultural progress
> of ethnic Greeks in other countries?  If Greece can do cultural outreach
> without it being taken as a threat of aggression, why is the situation with
> Macedonia any different?


Of course not, the average Greek is utterly indifferent to the Greek
population in Cyrpus for example as we all know :-

Andy
From: georget@cs.man.ac.uk (George Theodoropoulos)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.greek
Subject: Re: Linovambakoi (Re: Turkish Cypriots reject ENOSIS)
Keywords: Ali Pasas, The King, Makarios, Chrysostomos, Vasiliu, Enosis, Palikaria, Akritas
Date: 25 Jan 93 20:53:50 GMT

terziogl@ee.rochester.edu (Esin Terzioglu) writes:


>[stuff deleted]

>To all Greek Cypriots who claim that Turkish Cypriots were once Greeks(!),

>1) There is no evidence in the history of Cyprus that says that "Greek" 
>   Cypriots are related to mainland Greeks (then Byzantium). Cyprus had a
>   blend of peoples who lived on the Island (Lusignans, Venicians etc.)
>   So, present "Greek" Cypriots consider themselves to be Greek because of
>   common language and religion with the mainland Greece.

     Have you ever heard of the ARCADIANS?

>E.T.

yiorgos theodoropoulos
manchester