HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: rkobenter@galaxy.gov.bc.ca
Newsgroups: comp.os.os2.advocacy
Subject: NT to include OS/2 support/APIs??????
Date: 21 Jan 93 20:34:40 -0800
Organization: BC Systems Corporation

New Thread: NT to run OS/2 apps ?!

Way back in June last year a senior M$ exec told me that it was originally
planned that OS/2 1.x apps would run under NT much as Win30 apps currently
do under OS/2 2.0. Then later near the end of last year the same exec told
me , nope its been taken out for obvious (read: political) reasons.
End of story.

Yesterday I heard from a NT tester that guess what its back in, and its not
just 1.3 apps, 2.0 apps will also run 'seamlessly' under NT.
So who to believe? And why the flip flop?

The NTers believe that by including OS/2 2 support they raise the ante one
level
and by doing so sites like mine are less likely to keep OS/2 around,
well, OS/2 is all but being written off as the server of choice, M$'s
marketing has seen to that, so the fight is on for the Desktop. BUT, hey
NT is to big a pig for the desktop, (some will argue so is OS/2 2)
so ... where will this lead? Comments? Thoughts? Provocations? Post here!

Its a terrible time to be a code developer. On that issue how many of
you OS/2 coders are using MIRRORs rather than code staright to 2.0 ?

Anyone writing OS/2 and WIN31/NT code out there? whats it like porting
between the two? Lots of effort or 'seamless' hey hey :)


Robert Kobenter

Victoria BC Canada

eMAIL: rwkobent@bcsc02.gov.bc.ca
--------------------------------------All mine, all mine -------------
                               (for my employers benefit :)
From: efeustel@skylark (Edward Feustel)
Newsgroups: comp.os.os2.advocacy
Subject: Re: OS/2 killer app!
Date: 28 Jan 1993 12:24:44 GMT
Organization: IDA, Alexandria, VA
NNTP-Posting-Host: skylark.ida.org
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1 PL6]

This is supposed to be on the November PDK CD-ROM.
Ed

--
Edward A. Feustel, Research Staff Member
Institute for Defense Analyses           Phone: (703)-845-6657
1801 N. Beauregard Street                Fax:   (703)-845-6848
Alexandria, Va. 22311-1772               Email: efeustel@ida.org
From: garyng@gnct.com (Gary Ng)
Newsgroups: comp.os.os2.advocacy
Subject: Re: Beta-zoid (wuz Re: NT to be launched at Comdex/Spring,...)
Date: 24 Jan 93 19:26:08 GMT
Organization: Global Network Communication Technology Co.

strobl@gmd.de (Wolfgang Strobl) writes:

> The current NT prerelease doesn't require a CD-ROM, either. If you
> have ftp access, you'll most probably have temporary access to a
> Unix workstation with a CD drive, too. Mount the CD, ftp the contents
> of the NT installation directory to your PC.  That's it.  Local 
> installation proceeds without access to the CD.
> 

The current NT beta NEEDs CD-ROM drive because it is only released in a
single media. However, once you can get the i386 directory on to a local
disk, it install like a champ and leave OS2 far behind.

-gary


garyng@gnct.com (Gary Ng)
GloCom BBS - The BBS brings usenet/internet to Hong Kong Public (852)4925025
Newsgroups: comp.os.os2.advocacy
From: sip1@ellis.uchicago.edu (Timothy F. Sipples)
Subject: Re: AmiPro for OS/2 (was Re: Impressions of OS/2 2.1 Beta)
Reply-To: sip1@midway.uchicago.edu
Organization: Dept. of Econ., Univ. of Chicago
Date: Fri, 22 Jan 1993 23:39:40 GMT

In article <1993Jan22.141835.1@violet.ccit.arizona.edu> f67709907@violet.ccit.arizona.edu (Greg Franklin) writes:
>I think Ami Pro for PM will be a straight port of the Windows version, and
>will languish on version 3 while Lotus cranks out versions 5 and beyond
>for Windows.
>That is, if Lotus ever does release a PM version.  They certainly won't
>take advantage of OS/2 EAs, long file names, or threading, or any of the
>good stuff OS/2 has.

Thank you for playing.

AmiPro for OS/2 2.0 will be full 32-bit, Workplace Shell aware,
multithreaded, HPFS aware, etc.  Ditto 1-2-3 2.0, Freelance Graphics,
and cc:Mail.

cc:Mail should be available now; 1-2-3 2.0 and Freelance Graphics in
February; AmiPro in March or April, according to what I'm hearing.

Another bit of rumor: the Windows people at Lotus have been drooling
over the OS/2 version.

>P.S.: Where is Stacker OS/2 now?  Talk about vaporware....

I'm hearing first quarter on it as well, but why don't you ask Stac
Electronics?

-- 
Timothy F. Sipples      | Read the OS/2 FAQ List 2.0i, available from
sip1@ellis.uchicago.edu | 128.123.35.151, anonymous ftp, in /pub/os2/all/info
Dept. of Econ., Univ.   | /faq, or from LISTSERV@BLEKUL11.BITNET (send "HELP")
of Chicago, 60637       | [Read the List, THEN post to ONE OS/2 newsgroup.]
Newsgroups: comp.os.os2.advocacy,comp.os.os2.programmer
From: assela@marcus.its.rpi.edu (A. Andre Asselin)
Subject: OS/2 as an open system- benefits/drawbacks?
Keywords: open, source, OS/2
Date: Wed, 27 Jan 1993 02:50:21 GMT

I was thinking recently about the future of the PC marketplace, and thought
of an interesting idea.  If IBM were to make OS/2 an open system (i.e.
all source freely available or licenseable at a reasonable rate), I believe
its market share for desktop operating systems would increase dramatically.
Just think: a windowing system where you don't have to guess what the
documentation means on a certain point (programming Windows is as much
reading the book as experimenting to figure out what it means).  This 
advantage is already available in X, but this would be the first time
it'd be available for a mainstream desktop OS.  
   And if you have some obscure bug that seems to be caused by a strange
interaction, you could not only look at the source, but also trace right
down into OS/2 at a source level!
   My question to the net is what do you see as the advantages and
disadvantages of an approach like this.  How would it impact OS/2 sales?
How would it impact the programming community?  Is such a system feasible?
Any thoughts?

          - Andre Asselin   (assela@rpi.edu)
Newsgroups: comp.os.os2.advocacy
From: nap42487@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (Nishith A. Patel)
Subject: Re: Is OS/2 a dead end?
Organization: University of Illinois at Urbana
Date: Mon, 25 Jan 1993 23:46:57 GMT

rbotimer@max.ct.gmr.com (R Douglas Botimer) writes:

>In article <88S502P933A401@JUTS.ccc.amdahl.com> rwb00@avon.as (Robert W  
>Beveridge) writes:
>:
>:Is OS/2 a dead end ? Well lets see...

>NOT!
>:
>:  o it has fewer users than the Amiga

>How many people bought Amiga in the first year?

The Amiga's rate of sales increased over time; OS/2's is decreasing.

>:  o there are essentialy no native applications for it (I know people are  
>claiming
>:    a thousand applications exist, but when I walk into CompUSA or Egghead, I
>:    don't see any...)

>You don't need OS/2 applications to take advantage of OS/2.  I'm not forced to  
>buy OS/2 applications until I'm ready.  And plenty of choices on the horizon.   
If there are no apps for it, but just the ability to run what people can
already run without it, why would anyone see a reason to move to it. Only the
technical types and those who really need OS/2 for something specific would
see a reason to buy an OS that has some technical advantages over Windows,
namely improved multitasking.

>How long did it take to get native Windows apps from anyone except MicroSoft?

Much less than nine months. And We are still building on those nine months.
Lots of vendors were behind Windows before it came out, and soon after, they
were flocking to it in large numbers.
OS/2, by contrast, has nothing but shareware utilities going for it.

>:  o IBM has never had a successful PC software product


What? OS/2 is probably the biggest bust of all time in the computer industry,
or at least the OS industry. Remember that CP/M is only dead today. OS/2 never
got anywhere from the very beginning.)
IBM will never make a net profit on OS/2, unless it somehow replaces DOS.
(100 million users? I really doubt it).

>tried, they quickly realized where their talent lies.  Has MS ever had a  
>successful multi-tasking operating system (Xenix?, OS/2 1.x?)?  MVS and AIX are  
>:  o IBM is also committed to another operating system, based on "Pink",
>:    that seems to fill the same role as OS/2

>You need to read some of IBM's announcements.

The original comment is echoed by many others in the industry. No one cares
what IBM is claiming.

>CP/M was around for quite a while after DOS was introduced.  In fact you can  
>still find it. Windows isn't dead or even dying, but OS/2 is real competition.

OS/2 is a non-issue as far as most people are concerned. You know that.

>I'll take a piece of the OS/2 niche!

The point is that not many people will.


Newsgroups: comp.os.os2.advocacy
From: Mark Kovarski <kovarski@zooid.guild.org>
Subject: Re: Misc OS/2 Items
Organization: ZOOiD BBS
Date: Sat, 23 Jan 1993 00:00:40 GMT


In regards to his interview in PC Week, he might say it but whether he likes
it or not, people will realize that they need to be more productive, and OS/2
offers just that.

Does the article also mention that Gates gets annoyed when people mention
IBM's OS/2 in his presence? Well, he will not admit it but I have spoken to
one person who had a conversation with Gates where it was the case. 

The only person Gates can fool with such statements is himself.

Mark K.
E-Mail: kovarski@zooid.guild.org
Newsgroups: comp.os.os2.advocacy
From: goyal@utdallas.edu (MOHIT K GOYAL)
Subject: Re: AmiPro for OS/2 (was Re: Impressions of OS/2 2.1 Beta)
Organization: Univ. of Texas at Dallas
Distribution: world,local
Date: Sat, 23 Jan 1993 19:09:11 GMT

>I think Ami Pro for PM will be a straight port of the Windows version, and
>will languish on version 3 while Lotus cranks out versions 5 and beyond
>for Windows.
>That is, if Lotus ever does release a PM version.  They certainly won't
>take advantage of OS/2 EAs, long file names, or threading, or any of the
>good stuff OS/2 has.
>
This is complete BULLSHIT!!

Ami Pro v3.0 for OS/2 is in early beta.  Lotus has a 2Q93 ship date.  It is
a complete 32-bit product.  Has HPFS support, has multiple threads, etc, etc.
This product will take *full* advantage of OS/2 2.0.

The same can be said for 123, Freelance, and CC:Mail.  123 & Freelance are in
very late beta right now, and will come out in February.  CC:Mail is still in
alpha.

>P.S.: Where is Stacker OS/2 now?  Talk about vaporware....

Stacker is in mid/late beta right now.  The beta has been shown at various
forums.


Xref: sparky comp.os.os2.advocacy:12751 comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy:4001
From: jp776@macbeth.umd.edu (Robert S. Rodgers)
Newsgroups: comp.os.os2.advocacy
Subject: Re: PRO/CON on Mirrors (was Re: AmiPro for OS/2)
Date: 24 Jan 93 20:20:26 GMT
Organization: University of Maryland, College Park

In article <1jumfcINN3h0@cae.cad.gatech.edu> chris@cad.gatech.edu (Chris McClellen) writes:
>In <1993Jan24.041730.4232@netcom.com> xtifr@netcom.com (Chris Waters) writes:
>
>>In <1993Jan24.001304.19923@wam.umd.edu> rsrodger@wam.umd.edu (Yamanari) writes:
>
>>>In article <1993Jan23.150321.1@milori.ccit.arizona.edu> f67709907@milori.ccit.arizona.edu (Greg Franklin) writes:
>>>>In article <1993Jan22.233940.1843@midway.uchicago.edu>, sip1@ellis.uchicago.edu (Timothy F. Sipples) writes:
>
>[ Yamanari says Mirrors = evil, Mr. Waters doesn't care ]
>
>I agree with Chris Waters' statement.
>
>Mirrors may make a product perform a little slower, but I don't
>think you should judge a product soley on its API.  If the
>program is great, so what if it uses Mirrors.


	If we aren't going to judge based on the API, hy not use Windows
	programs?  Because OS/2 has prettier menus?


	[news server limits quoting, deletions on an excellent
	description of a mirrors-ported app...]

>Which reminds me -- I saw a product demo (not going to name the
>product) which was "ported" from windows to OS/2 2.0 -- however,
>
>In a nutshell, the program was awful.  They demoed it on a 486/33
>that had 16 megs of memory, and a fast HD (5ms I believe).
>It was so slow, I wanted to yawn in the demoer's face.  It swapped


	Anyone want to bet that this will be the mirrors default?

	I see a problem witl expecting someone to "tune" a program
	written under mirrors.  Let alone debug.

	Bad programs, like the one described above, make OS/2 look bad.
	Buying mirrors based products--especially badly written ones--
	encourages piggish and slow programs.  This, in turn, makes people
	want to laugh when they see your high-powered OS/2 system laboring
	to keep up with their 386SX-20 under Win3.1.  Help OS/2.  Buy
	*OS/2* products.



Newsgroups: comp.os.os2.advocacy
From: adkinsg@symphony.cc.purdue.edu (Garry Adkins)
Subject: What happened to the win OO desktop? was: Re: NT to be launched 
Organization: Purdue University
Date: Fri, 22 Jan 1993 06:05:22 GMT

In article <1993Jan20.220616.5846@netcom.com> jeffgus@netcom.com (Jeffrey Gustafson) writes:
>
>	Why would you spend "less then $500" on an operating system
>that stresses networking... only to disable it?  OS/2 can do the same
>thing, even better (with a better GUI) right out of the box for a lot
>less money.
>

I thought they (MS) were going to include an Object Oriented shell to
compete with WpS...  What happened to that?  Did it fall by the wayside?

Garry

--
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Garry Adkins                             adkinsg@symphony.cc.purdue.edu  
------------------------------------------------------------------------
USnail: 425-7 South River Rd.            GTENet:  +1-317-743-8188
From: mpearson@lynx.dac.northeastern.edu (Matthew Pearson)
Newsgroups: comp.os.os2.advocacy
Subject: Re: NT to be launched at Comdex/Spring,...
Date: 27 Jan 93 17:48:46 GMT
Organization: Northeastern University, Boston, MA. 02115, USA

In article <1993Jan27.172757.25148@netcom.com> dyoung@netcom.com (David Young) writes:
>
>Not necessarily...  IBM were handing out Beta CD-ROMS for free at the
>Windows-OS/2 conference in San Jose last week.  The Licence also allows you
>to install the beta on up to 5 (at least I think it was 5) machines. So you
>could legally get it from a friend.

9 additional Copies...

At least on the $15 one from IBM...

Matt
From: unruh@physics.ubc.ca (William Unruh)
Newsgroups: comp.os.os2.advocacy
Subject: Re: BUYING OS/2
Date: 27 Jan 1993 19:30:57 GMT
Organization: The University of British Columbia
Distribution: world
NNTP-Posting-Host: physics.ubc.ca

tomh@wes.on.ca (Tom Haapanen) writes:

>The online is better than the printed stuff, but it's less comprehensive and
>less easy to search than Windows' hypertext.  Heck, most of the hypertext

Yes, and as I was trying to figure out the SIGNAL command in REXX, I
read the online stuff, and where it should tell me what all the signal
possibilities are, it tells me to read 2/REXX Reference- presumabley
some manual that never madeit into any package I got. Some online
document writer really got lazy. Also in a number of places they don't
tell you th ecomplete syntax of the command- read the help on the
DATATYPE() for example. And nowhere is the use of @ as an OS2 command
prefix explained. The Online Docs still need some work.
From: trav@wpi.WPI.EDU (Travis Charles Korthas)
Newsgroups: comp.os.os2.advocacy
Subject: os2 what good is it?
Date: 23 Jan 1993 17:31:51 GMT
Organization: Worcester Polytechnic Institute
NNTP-Posting-Host: wpi.wpi.edu

FIRST OF ALL : I AM POSTING THIS FROM A FRIENDS ACCOUNT PLEASE
SEND ALL REPLIES TO  smiley@bigwpi.wpi.edu

What the HELL is os2 good for?  I heard it was gonna be 50 meg at 
LEAST!  That would take up almost half my harddrive space.  And for
what???  I can do anything os2 can do with my windows!  If anyone 
can explain this garbage to me please do.


REMEMBER THIS IS NOT MY ACCOUNT DIRECT REPLIES TO
smiley@bigwpi.wpi.edu
From: henshaw@cerl.gatech.edu (Andy Henshaw)
Newsgroups: comp.os.os2.advocacy
Subject: Re: Doug Hamilton responds
Date: 21 Jan 93 17:10:35 GMT
Organization: CERL/EE, Georgia Tech, Atlanta


>>No flame, just curious: what was it that Microsoft did in that "hell of
>>a job on wooing him over to the NT camp?" 

>For starters, they gave him a lovely workstation or two to develop NT software
>on.

>>jmalloy@hamilton.edu

-- 
>D. Robert Spexet II, N0OKR   Internet:  spexet@umich.edu, dspexet@attmail.com

--------
Yes, and then he writes in his column for Windows Magazine (it was
Windows & OS/2 when this happened, I believe) that he was going to
be developing for NT because Microsoft is so good to developers.
As if Microsoft just gave him the workstation because he was a developer
and not because he was an influential columnist.  I wrote several
letters (via America Online) to Fred Langa, editor of Windows magazine
about that column and Mr. Langa was never able to defend it, IMO.

Andy Henshaw
henshaw@cerl.gatech.edu

Newsgroups: comp.os.os2.advocacy
From: olavt@ulrik.uio.no (Olav Torvund)
Subject: Re: AmiPro for OS/2 (was Re: Impressions of OS/2 2.1 Beta)
Organization: University of Oslo, Norway
	<93020.170902ASI509@DJUKFA11.BITNET>
	<1993Jan22.141835.1@violet.ccit.arizona.edu>
Distribution: world,local
Date: Sat, 23 Jan 1993 22:56:21 GMT

In article <1993Jan22.141835.1@violet.ccit.arizona.edu> f67709907@violet.ccit.arizona.edu (Greg Franklin) writes:

   I think Ami Pro for PM will be a straight port of the Windows version, and
   will languish on version 3 while Lotus cranks out versions 5 and beyond
   for Windows.

   That is, if Lotus ever does release a PM version.  They certainly won't
   take advantage of OS/2 EAs, long file names, or threading, or any of the
   good stuff OS/2 has.

   P.S.: Where is Stacker OS/2 now?  Talk about vaporware....
   -- 
   Greg Franklin
   f67709907@ccit.arizona.edu

If you know nothing, keep quiet! Lotus PM versions of 1-2-3, Freelance
Graphics and Notes (and I would think cc:Mail, but I have not used it)
all take advantage for EAs, long filnames, multithreading, etc. So why
on earth should they not implement these features in Ami Pro, when
they have a golden oportunity to be the leader on a growing plattform?

Lotus Ami Pro seems to be taking a growing share of the Windows
market, and seems to be in the position to be number one in the OS/2
market. Microsoft has excluded themselves from the OS/2 market, and WP
are late. If Lotus does a good job with Ami Pro for OS/2, it is not
unlikely that organisations with a mixed DOS/Windows and OS/2
plattform will choose Ami Pro on both plattforms.

Olav Torvund
University of Oslo
Norway
Olavt@jus.uio.no
From: jmaynard@oac.hsc.uth.tmc.edu (Jay Maynard)
Newsgroups: comp.os.os2.advocacy
Subject: Re: NT to be launched at Comdex/Spring,...
Date: 25 Jan 1993 22:19:10 GMT
Organization: UT Health Science Center Houston

In article <1993Jan25.200502.2638@ncsu.edu> jmbeesle@eos.ncsu.edu (JAMES MICHAEL BEESLEY) writes:
>Use the OS/2 2.1 beta after March 31, 1993 and you are subject to
>    prosecution by IBM for illegally using copyrighted code.

Yeah...so?

>The NT CD-ROM deal from Microsoft (in case some of you can't 
>spell it :-)  allows you rights to the GA Level ship code and a free 
>copy when it ships.  There is a large difference between the two
>deals.

Yeah...about $74 worth, if you bought the CD-ROM (for the math impaired, ($69
+ $20 shipping) - $15). If, as I strongly suspect, the 2.0->2.1 upgrade fee
(if there even is one) is less than that, it's still a better deal - and for
those who FTPed the beta and found, for whatever reason, that OS/2 2.1 wasn't
for them, they're not out money, unlike those who bought the NT CDROM.
-- 
Jay Maynard, EMT-P, K5ZC, PP-ASEL | Never ascribe to malice that which can
jmaynard@oac.hsc.uth.tmc.edu      | adequately be explained by stupidity.
    "I don't want to read poor Microsoft bashing. I want to read good
Microsoft bashing." -- Douglas A. Bell, in comp.os.os2.advocacy (Me too!)
From: chris@cad.gatech.edu (Chris McClellen)
Newsgroups: comp.os.os2.advocacy
Subject: AmiPro 3.0 and Yamanari
Date: 25 Jan 1993 15:11:13 -0500
Organization: Georgia Institute of Technology, CAE/CAD Lab
NNTP-Posting-Host: cae.cad.gatech.edu


"Yamanari" (or whatever), 

	People have been saying that AmiPro 3.0 looks like it will NOT
use Mirrors, but rather, will be a native PM app.  If you don't
believe them, wait for the darned release, and stop tauting and
insulting people.  Lately your posts are spiriling down into drivel,
where as they used to be intelligent.  When people started 
saying AP30 was going to be a native PM app, then you started bitching
about other "theoretical things," like what WPS aware means.  Stick
with the issues and your original questions.  It just seems your
are just trying to find something to bitch about.  When someone
answers your bitch with information, you kindly pick up something else.
If you're unhappy, use whatever OS makes you happy, and then you
won't need to bitch about OS/2.  However, if you are an NT advocacte,
I guess you have to complain about something that actually exists,
and runs... ;)  [humor impared: ignore]


Just seems you are nitpicking all the time.

Curious:  Are you an amiga owner, or were you ever?

-- 
test sig!
Newsgroups: comp.os.os2.advocacy
From: adkinsg@symphony.cc.purdue.edu (Garry Adkins)
Subject: Re: NT to be launched at Comdex/Spring,...
Organization: Purdue University
Date: Fri, 22 Jan 1993 06:25:06 GMT

In article <1993Jan21.143153.28433@ncsu.edu> jmbeesle@eos.ncsu.edu (JAMES MICHAEL BEESLEY) writes:
>
>(I also think that the quality of it will not be on par
>with OS/2 2.1, but I still like Wint-NTs features more...)

What features are those?  I'd really like to know.

Garry
--
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Garry Adkins                             adkinsg@symphony.cc.purdue.edu  
------------------------------------------------------------------------
USnail: 425-7 South River Rd.            GTENet:  +1-317-743-8188
From: system@midwest.uucp (System Operator)
Newsgroups: comp.os.os2.advocacy
Subject: OS\2 with COM4
Date: Tue, 26 Jan 93 14:37:04 CST
Organization: Midwest Horizons Semi-Private UUCP Site

I would like to use OS\2 on my computer, but have run into a predicament. 
I have a mouse on COM1 using IRQ4, nothing on COM2 or COM3, and a 2400 
Baud Modem on COM4.  I have conflicts when I put the modem on COM2 and 
COM3 would be on the same IRQ as my mouse so that is out.  
 
Does anyone know of a way to get OS\2 2.0 to recognize COM4 when COM2 and 
COM3 are not being used?  

Secondly, I am looking for a Mitsumi CD-ROM driver for OS\2.  If anyone 
knows how I can fix my problem and\or find the driver please reply! 
 
Send mail to: jmiksich@midwest.uucp
 
John
Newsgroups: comp.os.os2.advocacy