HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: guthrie@nb.rockwell.com (Karen Guthrie)
Subject: 3% discount on houses
Organization: Rockwell International
Date: Tue, 21 Jul 1992 15:03:51 GMT



OK, here is how you get around half of the realtors commission
when you buy.  

1.  Pick the neighborhood and drive around taking addresses and
    real estate offices and agents off of signs.

2.  Call the phone numbers on the sign and ask about the property
    including square feet, bedrooms, bathrooms, price, how long it 
    has been on the market etc.  Ask for the name of the listing 
    agent.  If you are interested ask to speek to them.

3.  Now that you are talking to the listing agent who has something
    to gain by selling the property express interest in their listing
    at ... address.  Tell them that you are working without a realtor
    and that if you should buy this property you will expect them to
    write your offer but only to take the 3% due to the listing agent.

4.  Expect to get yelled at.  You may have to give a little on the 3%
    but if you are buying as an investment and are not in love with
    the property you will stand a better chance.  They may also tell
    you that you can not do this.  (Not true)  If you want to play 
    hard ball you could talk to the owners of the property because 
    they are his/her boss.

5.  After all of this you can ask them to meet you at the property
    and show it to you.  

Do not allow them to get nice and offer to put you in their car and
show you other properties and do not bend.  You will have to know 
how much it is worth and what you would offer and you may have to 
write your own offer.  They may also claim that it doesn't come out
of your pocket it comes from the seller.  What nonsense.  If money
didn't come out of the sellers pocket they would be willing to sell
for less.

Later when there is not such a scarcity of buyers, this may get to
be even more difficult than it is now.  You have to be absolutely
careful and rigid about this because as my husband says "how hard
would you fight for $10K".

Good Luck,

Karen
Rockwell never talks to me about real estate and therefore these are
my opinions.  If this advice is used badly and people are made angry
and they make trouble for you don't blame me as I have no authority
on this matter. 
Newsgroups: misc.invest.real-estate
From: apetty@dsd.es.com (Annie Petty)
Subject: Affordable Silicon Valley Home for Sale 
Reply-To: apetty@dsd.es.com
Organization: Evans & Sutherland Computer Corp., Salt Lake City, UT
Date: Tue, 21 Jul 92 13:18:54 GMT


	
        VERY AFFORDABLE SILICON VALLEY STARTER HOME
        (Why pay rent when you can OWN!)

        MOBILE HOME FOR SALE
        SILICON VALLEY LOCATION
        MINUTES FROM SUN MICROSYSTEMS

        Clean and cozy Double Wide
        3 bedroom Mobile Home

        Corner fenced lot

        Pool - cabana etc included w/lot rent of $280

        Located in Milpitas, CA
        Owner relocating - must sell

        Best offer over $35k

        Contact Mr. Petty (408) 262 6086


Newsgroups: misc.invest.real-estate
From: bobk@sequent.com (Bob Krull)
Subject: Re: How to make an offer on a house??
Organization: Sequent Computer Systems Inc.
Date: Tue, 21 Jul 92 15:06:35 GMT

In article <1992Jul20.154536.33301@introl.introl.com> ed@introl.introl.com (Ed Zhong) writes:
>>
>>I am about to buy my first house. Unlike buying a TV, I feel 
>>difficult to make an offer on a house because of the lack of
>>
>><stuff deleted>
>>

and I write:
>>>Hey, I know the traffic on this group is pretty low right now, and I don't
>>>want to discourage postings, but wouldn't all such questions about purchasing
>>>or financing owner-occupied single-family homes receive a wider and more
>>>appropriate audience in misc.consumers.house?
>>>

Mr. Zhong has corrected me, indicating that his original posting *did*
refer to purchase of rental property.  Thanks for the clarification.
Now, to add my $.02 to this topic ;-).

Others have already mentioned the obvious step of gathering "comps".
Another step is to do some research on the rental market in your target
area.  Pick up the paper and visit some places for rent.  You will get a
chance to evaluate the area, get some comp info, and also meet a lot of
other landlords.  Many of these people (at least here in friendly Portland)
will be happy to share experiences and advice with you if you just let them
know why you want to look at their property.

-Bob Krull
From: asylvain@felix.filenet.com (The Chipmunk)
Newsgroups: misc.invest.real-estate
Subject: Re: Real Estate News Summary, Part 109
Date: 25 Jul 92 20:56:49 GMT
Reply-To: asylvain@fritz.filenet.com (The Chipmunk)
Distribution: usa
Organization: Foundation for the Increased Wealth of Chipmunks

Written in article <1992Jul23.215331.20487@adobe.com>
 by hamachi@adobe.com (Gordon Hamachi):

: 852. A new breed of California real estate pioneer, part optimist and part
: daredevil, are paying 35% or more of their income each month on housing.
: More than 1 in 5 Californian homeowners find themselves in this position.
: People still view housing as one of the best investments they can make.
: They will stretch themselves as far as the lenders let them.  For some
: homes are status symbols.  Real estate experts say that high mortgages
: usually are mitigated by time, as payments remain fixed while the owner's
: salary increases over the years.  [McClatchy News Service]

This sounds like old news!

-- 
The Chipmunk.
Opinions are mine, batteries not included, void where prohibited.
Don't believe everything you hear or anything you say.
Newsgroups: misc.invest.real-estate
From: thundt@jaguar.shearson.com (Thomas M. Hundt)
Subject: Re: What bottom?
Organization: Lehman Brothers, Inc.
Date: Tue, 28 Jul 1992 19:30:12 GMT

I wrote:
> Anyway, one reason prices can only drop so fast is that a seller
> is required ... to pay off his entire mortgage before title to the
> property can transfer to a new owner.  So, the mortgage amount 
> represents pretty much the lowest a seller can go. ...

From: turpin@cs.utexas.edu (Russell Turpin)
|Here in Austin, Tx, a short walk down a busy street will let you
...
|buy), any number of them will explain why "the mortgage amount" 
|is NOT "the lowest a seller can go."

Which is why I used the language "pretty much".  Hey, I can offer a guy
$5 for his $100,000-mortgaged house, and, if he's willing to pay the
other $99995 of the mortgage, he can sell it to me!  In any case, the
bank's lien must be satisfied before it will release the title.

Anybody have a comment on my statement that the entire remaining
mortgage must be paid before the bank may release the title?  (I.e. it
is not allowed to accept a loss on it.)  (Again, allegedly this is
part of one of the Federal banking regulations.)


-Tom Hundt
Newsgroups: misc.invest.real-estate
From: bd670@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Russell I. Dyreng)
Subject: Re: is buyer - agent agreement necessary?
Organization: Case Western Reserve University, Cleveland, Ohio, (USA)
Date: Thu, 30 Jul 92 16:38:47 GMT


It appears to me that no matter who pays the commision, (buyer or
seller) that as long as the the commision is expressed as a
percentage of the selling price, the agent's interests will always be
tied to that of the seller.

In other words, the more that I pay for a house the more profit 
the seller makes and the larger the commsion to the agent.  Either
way, you end up paying, whether directly, or indirectly via the 
seller.

The only way that a broker will truely work fro the buyer is to 
a commision  that would increase as the sales decreases.  I am 
not aware of anyone who has ever set up such an agreement.

Russ
From: kessler@sluggo.Eng.Sun.COM (Tom Kessler, Internet Spokesmodel)
Newsgroups: misc.invest.real-estate
Subject: Re: One Man's Survey of Recent San Francisco Home Prices
Date: 29 Jul 92 16:07:01
Organization: Rocket Scientists Anonymous
Distribution: usa
	<152527INNq9c@agate.berkeley.edu>
	<1992Jul28.160158.21026@ichips.intel.com>
NNTP-Posting-Host: sluggo
In-reply-to: marcos@pdx047's message of Tue, 28 Jul 1992 16:01:58 GMT


yuh, but it rains all the time in oregon.
depends on what you like i guess.
Newsgroups: misc.invest.real-estate
From: stgprao@xing.unocal.com (Richard Ottolini)
Subject: Re: Need Info on Appraisal
Originator: stgprao@xing
Organization: Unocal Corporation
Date: Fri, 31 Jul 1992 18:24:23 GMT

In article <MACRAKIS.92Jul30161340@next4.osf.org> macrakis@osf.org (Stavros Macrakis) writes:
>In article <1992Jul30.182626.12008@usenet.ins.cwru.edu> bd670@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Russell I. Dyreng) writes:
>
>   ...the bank wanted me to sign a statement... that my copy
>   of the appraisal was for my own personal information and that I
>   agreed not to use the appraisal for any purpose...
>
>You might interpret an appraisal as a guarantee that a house is worth
>$X.  If you later try to sell, and can't get that much, you might want
>to claim that the appraisal misled you into making a bad deal.  The
>purpose of the statement might be to protect the appraiser from such a
>claim.

It keeps appraisers in the dough if they have to hired for every possible
transaction on a house- taxes, buying, selling, listing, financing,
refinancing ...
From: johne@vcd.hp.com (John Eaton)
Newsgroups: misc.invest.real-estate
Subject: Re: One Man's Survey of Recent San Francisco Home Prices
Date: 27 Jul 92 23:45:40 GMT
Article-I.D.: vcd.Bs2nC5.KyE
Distribution: usa
Organization: Hewlett-Packard VCD

jbutterf@mal-s1.gatech.edu (Jill Butterfield) writes:
: 
: I've always heard that home prices in CA were ridiculous, but this 
: amazed me! Are salaries that much higher than everywhere else?
---------
Not really. The trick was that once you took the plunge and bought a house
that you now had another source of income from the constant price hikes.
Some people even boasted that their houses made more that they did last
year. This "income" was fairly significant, taxfree and capable of being
used to buy a better house. You simply waited until your house rose 50 to
100% in value and then traded up. 

This of course fed on itself so that rising prices eventually created more
pressure for prices to rise. The resulting spiral continued until the supply
of new suckers willing and able to buy in dimished.

John Eaton
!hp-vcd!johne
From: jbutterf@mal-s1.gatech.edu (Jill Butterfield)
Newsgroups: misc.invest.real-estate
Subject: Re: One Man's Survey of Recent San Francisco Home Prices
Date: 27 Jul 92 20:06:46 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: Georgia Tech Res. Inst., Modeling & Analysis Lab

In article <151jkkINNmml@agate.berkeley.edu> markh@sag4.ssl.berkeley.edu (Mark Hurwitz) writes:
>
>	As a followup to my previous posting about San Francisco
>home prices...
>
>	-2 Br home offered at $279 K.  No takers.  Lowered to $249 K.
>
>	-1 Br home offered at $179 K.  Now at $159 K.  Still sitting.
>
>	-2 Br home offered at $269 K; now down to $239 K.  Still sitting.
>

I've always heard that home prices in CA were ridiculous, but this 
amazed me! Are salaries that much higher than everywhere else? I live
in the Atlanta area, and 2 years ago (at age 27) I bought my first 
home -- 3 br, 2 bath, 1940 square feet living space on a 1/2 acre lot.
It was a brand new home, in a nice subdivision with a swimming pool
and tennis courts (oh, I have to pay $250/yr to use the pool and tennis
courts). My house cost $98900!

So this same house would probably cost 3x that in CA. Would my salary
be 3x higher out there? I have a master's degree in math, I work mostly
with engineers (doing a lot of the same work they do), and I specialize
in stationary target detection methods using radar signal processing
techniques. I also do acoustic modeling. I've been a full-time research
professional here at Georgia Tech for 7 years. The average salary for
co-workers in my rank is about $50k. So, if I were in CA, would I be
earning $150k????

No wonder so many people are leaving CA! 

jib
-- 
Jill Butterfield, Research Scientist       EMAIL: jbutterf@mal-s1.gatech.edu
Georgia Institute of Technology, GTRI Modeling and Analysis Lab
"Happiness is excitement that has found a settling down place..."
-E.L. Konigsburg, _From the Mixed-up Files of Mrs. Basil E. Frankweiler_
From: macrakis@osf.org (Stavros Macrakis)
Newsgroups: misc.invest.real-estate
Subject: Re: Monthly Mortgage vs. Biweekly Mortgage
Date: 24 Jul 92 18:40:49 GMT
Article-I.D.: next4.MACRAKIS.92Jul24114049
Organization: OSF Research Institute

In article <6812205@bailey.UUCP> ben@bailey.UUCP (Ben Bailey) writes:

   ...I have to disagree with your conclusion regarding biweekly
   payments not being worth the postage....  The following will show
   the payment schedule for [monthly vs. biweekly]

You have fallen into the usual trap.  If, as you say:

   The second note payment will be 1/2 of the first note payment per
   payment period.

then the total biweekly-schedule payments per year come to 13/12 of
the monthly-schedule payments.  Another way to put it: there are 4.33
weeks in a month, not 4.

To compare monthly and biweekly fairly, please recalculate the
advantage using biweekly-schedule payments of 2*X/4.33 instead of
2*X/4.  You will find that the advantage is indeed marginal.

	-s
Newsgroups: misc.invest.real-estate
From: bobk@sequent.com (Bob Krull)
Subject: Re: New Lender- Am I lucky?
Organization: Sequent Computer Systems Inc.
Distribution: usa
Date: Tue, 28 Jul 92 17:05:56 GMT

In article <1992Jul28.153201.2239@island.COM> ett@mangaia.island.COM () writes:
>My mortgage (only 1 year old) just got purchased by a new outfit (GMAC Mort.).
>The original interest was 5.99% variable. This new lender sends me a notice
>welcoming me, etc. I call them up to ask them a general question and the
>customer service clerk tells me my interest rate is fixed! My question is this:
>Say they don't catch this for a year- can they come back and demand retroactive
>payment? Isn't it up to the lender when to raise the interest in a variable
>scenario? If they can raise it after 1 year and they don't notify you then
>it's status quo?
>
>Thanks for any enlightenment...
>
>
>
>-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>Ed Tabachini           "There is no room for bigotry in the Republican Party!"
>ett@island.com          However, if you'd like to get on the waiting list...
>Island Graphics Corp
>San Rafael, CA
>-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>


OK, call me a fool, but my advice is to get back to the mortgage holder and
straighten this out.  You'd bitch like crazy if the mistake was in their
favor.  Regardless of whether you can "get away with it" or not, in the
long run, you're better off keeping your business dealings honest, fair
and equitable.

-Bob Krull
Xref: sparky misc.invest.real-estate:333 misc.invest:10003 misc.consumers:14540
From: rgarg@tellabs.com (Rajesh Garg)
Newsgroups: misc.invest.real-estate,misc.invest,misc.consumers
Subject: Re: Mortgage rates (Refinance Rates).
Date: 27 Jul 92 22:03:29 GMT
Organization: T

In article <1992Jul23.175748.23132) writes:
>
>
>15 YEARS Fixed rate at 7.75% with 0 points.
>
>The name of the company is Century Mortgage.  Telephone number is
>(708)369-1900. I talked to Ken Derickson.
>
>Please, do some more research. Do not take my word for it. At least
>you have some basis to compare rates from other companies. Give me call
>if I can answer any basic questions. 
>
>

Their service is alright.
Newsgroups: misc.invest.real-estate
From: wang@TorreyPinesCA.ncr.com (Charles Wang 3740)
Subject: Questions on Senior Community
Organization: NCR
Disclaimer: This posting does not neccessarily reflect the opinions of NCR.
Distribution: usa
Date: Tue, 28 Jul 92 22:02:08 GMT

Hi,

I have some questions regarding to the so-called 55+ Senior
Community. Well, I'm far from 55 years old at this moment, but
I think this might be a good opportinuty to get started.

Situation description:

   There is a supposedly 55+ Senior Community in the S. Cal.
   The prices of some houses for sale in that community are
   pretty good compared to "regular community". There are
   about 30% of "under age" people are living in the community
   and some with their kids play around the "Senior" community.

   Some of the young people who live there bought the properties
   from ex-owners or even from the developer. Some of the young
   people inherited the properties from their parents.

   The agents who sale those properties in that community told me
   that the management company of this community MIGHT send you
   a letter states that : "You are not supposed to live here",
   but no one can stop you from buying these properties. Also
   because HOA fee is almost nothing ( < $10/month ), the
   management company PROBABLY will never have enough money
   to bring everyone who is under age to the court. Those young
   people have been living here for years ...

   As I drove around the community, I only saw "under age"
   people there.


Questions:

        1, If XYZ cannot stop me from buying this property because
           XYZ can not discriminate me by my age, how can anyone
           to enforce the 55+ limitiom? Say, like "even if you
           bought the house, but you are not allowed to live in".

        2, If the CCR? or whateverf community regularation set
           the 55+ rules and eventually the management company
           need to go to the court to enforce the "rule" if they
           finally decide to, how can these properties are sold
           cheaper in the first place? Why can senior community
           can be sold a lot cheaper than simular properties
           somewhere else?

        3, What are the advantages (if any) and disvantages of
           investing properties in senior communities?

        4, I know that there is "no free lunch", but it seems that
           I can live there as the other young people do and the
           mortgage is the same as sub-lease a room from some
           appartments. What kind of risk am I taking? What do I
           miss? Of course I won't live there too long if I do
           live in the community.

        5, If I rent the property out in the future, is there
           any restriction? What should I consider?

Any of the opinions, suggestions, warnings, answers, etc. will be
really appreciated. Many many thanks in advance.

Regards,

Charles Wang
e-mail : sv001!wang@ucsd.edu
------------------------------------------------------
From: ald@clipper.ingr.com (Al Date)
Newsgroups: misc.invest.real-estate
Subject: Re: Call me in a decade
Date: 23 Jul 92 00:53:39 GMT
Distribution: misc
Organization: Intergraph Advanced Processor Division - Palo Alto, CA

In article <FOX.92Jul13122720@graphics.nyu.edu> fox@cs.nyu.edu (David Fox) writes:
>In article <1992Jul10.220941.5495@clipper.ingr.com> ald@clipper.ingr.com (Al Date) writes:
>
>   I will consider real estate as an investment when I can buy it
>   with an immediate positive cash flow, and nobody else wants
>   to touch it for fear of further depreciation of value.
>   That's how it was during the last depression, but nobody
>   remembers it--all they remember is the leveraged 50 year bull
>   market which made fools into millionaires.
>
>If the people who made money in the 50 year bull market
>are fools, what are the people who didn't?  :-)

Har.  Actually, there were prudent strategies for property ownership.
I am not saying that everyone who bought a house was a fool.  

I was thinking of the ones who traded up and bought as much property as they
"couldnt afford," on the "greater fool theory."  Banking on the greater
fool theory is itself foolish, IM!HO (although they were certainly 
rich fools on paper for awhile).
Many of them who thought they were millionaires have lost all their
equity, and are hanging by a thread, praying for a turn in the market to
bail them out with any kind of cash.  Others have just walked away and
left it to the bank.

They were imprudent, but they got lucky (for a while).  
Of course, I would classify anybody who buys a lotto ticket as a fool,
(even if they win) so I guess that tells you
what my opinion is worth.  The people who leveraged themselves
to the max and bought bigger and bigger houses beyond their means
using home equity loans are now finding out what the opposite of a lever is.


--Al Date

(A screw)
From: asylvain@felix.filenet.com (The Chipmunk)
Newsgroups: misc.invest.real-estate
Subject: Re: One Man's Survey of Recent San Francisco Home Prices
Date: 29 Jul 92 20:02:27 GMT
            <Bs2nC5.KyE@vcd.hp.com>
Reply-To: asylvain@fritz.filenet.com (The Chipmunk)
Distribution: usa
Organization: Foundation for the Increased Wealth of Chipmunks

Written in article <Bs2nC5.KyE@vcd.hp.com>
 by johne@vcd.hp.com (John Eaton):

: jbutterf@mal-s1.gatech.edu (Jill Butterfield) writes:
::
:: I've always heard that home prices in CA were ridiculous, but this 
:: amazed me! Are salaries that much higher than everywhere else?
:---------
: Not really. The trick was that once you took the plunge and bought a house
: that you now had another source of income from the constant price hikes.
: Some people even boasted that their houses made more that they did last
: year. This "income" was fairly significant, taxfree and capable of being
: used to buy a better house. You simply waited until your house rose 50 to
: 100% in value and then traded up. 
:
: This of course fed on itself so that rising prices eventually created more
: pressure for prices to rise. The resulting spiral continued until the supply
: of new suckers willing and able to buy in dimished.

This also increased demand for larger houses to move into.  I saw a
graph in the _Daily_Commerce_ once some years ago which plotted size 
and features of the average house, as well as the price adjusted for
inflation.

After WWII, for example, a typical house built in a tract housing
project was 2 bds, sometimes 1.  As time went on, a 1 car garage was
added, then 2 cars, then more bathrooms, etc. etc. etc.  The graph
showed when features were added and increased.

Nowadays it's difficult to find new construction with LESS than 4 bds, 3
baths, 2 car gar, marble floors in the Modern kitchen, which is FULL of
appliances, pfancy pfeister pfaucets on all the plumbing, jacuzzi (or
access to one nearby), access to tennis courts, horse trails, swimming
pools, etc.etc.etc.  Almost everything built caters to the move-up
buyer.

So the real affordability crisis comes out of the fact that a typical
newlywed-type first-time home-buyer could probably well afford a nice 
2bd 1bath tract house somewhere, if only somebody would build one!

(Condos don't count.  Alas, they too are expanding in size and features
and prices anyway, so they almost may as well count.)

-- 
The Chipmunk.
Opinions are mine, batteries not included, void where prohibited.
Hell hath no fury like a bureaucrat scorned.
    -- Milton Friedman
From: dd3e+@andrew.cmu.edu (Danny R Dalal)
Newsgroups: misc.invest.real-estate
Subject: Re: Real Estate News Summary, Part 110
Date: 27 Jul 92 14:06:58 GMT
Article-I.D.: andrew.4eR7C2y00awCIquF8B
Distribution: usa
Organization: Sophomore, Math/Computer Science, Carnegie Mellon, Pittsburgh, PA

For those who have read the Real Estate News Summary, I would
like to ask this:
	1.>  Isn't this a tremendous byuing opportunity?  If prices will
recover, right?  
	2.>  How would you go about profiting from the seemingly massive
decline in housing prices and sales?  Doesn't this mean that you can pick
up nice property for well under "market value" ??

	I'm just thinking aloud...

     	Thanks in advance,


	___Dan