HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: jstewart@alfred.carleton.ca (John Stewart)
Subject: Re: How about some polling?
Organization: Carleton University
Date: Thu, 10 Sep 1992 18:16:27 GMT

In <1992Sep10.174529.27949@newshub.ccs.yorku.ca> tony@nexus.yorku.ca (Anthony Wallis) writes:

>Dave Eschatosig Yadallee suggests:
>> .. Why not us as Canadians do some polling of our own.  Anyone can do it.
>> If we want, a separate newsgroup for this discussion.

>If you mean polling _via_this_medium_, how do you get any reasonable
>measure of statistical significance ?

>"99.44 % of the readership of sci.physics knows that perpetual motion
> machines are themodynamically impossible" sort of problem.  (Most
>Canadians would allow their governments to fund perpetual motion
>research and development projects :-) )

I would bet that most Canadians haven't the foggiest idea what a perpetual
motion machine is.  On the other hand, I wouldn't be surprised to find
that most Canadians believe that a "perpetual deficit" is possible; the
Federal government can just go right on running $30 billion annual deficits
indefinitely.  The suggestion that sooner or later we must balance the
budget through some combination of tax increases and spending cuts is
just right wing propaganda, isn't it? :-)
-- 
John Stewart -- Computing and Communications Services, Carleton University
Internet: jstewart@ccs.carleton.ca or Mr.Canoehead@algonquin.carleton.ca  
"Why can't we just forget about our constitutional problems and go canoeing?"
Xref: sparky can.general:4362 can.politics:6558 soc.culture.canada:6382
From: steven@spxtech.qc.ca (Steve Potter)
Newsgroups: can.general,can.politics,soc.culture.canada
Subject: Re: Election sun rising
Date: 8 Sep 92 12:54:13 GMT
Organization: Securiplex Technologies Inc., Montreal, Canada
X-Bytes: 1995

From article <SBO.92Sep7164500@froh.vlsi.polymtl.ca>, by sbo@vlsi.polymtl.ca (Stephane Boucher):
>>>>>> On 7 Sep 92 12:49:33 GMT, steven@spxtech.qc.ca (Steve Potter) said:
> 
> 	[...]
> 
>   > And automatic by-elections for new mandate if the bum changes party
>   > or policy dramatically from that for which he was elected.
> 
> 	[...]
> 
>   >   et al
> 
> Je suppose que tu inclus le partie liberal du Quebec au
> grand complet dans ton "el al"? Apres tout, Le partie a
> decide de ne pas respecter son propre programme...
> 
> Si on implante un systeme comme tu le proposes, je dit qu'il
> faut aller jusqu'au bout: Si un politicien ne respecte pas
> sa parole alors il doit y avoir une election partielle.
> 
> Evidemment, determiner si un politicien respect son mandat
> ou sa parole est un processus pas mal subjectif.
> --
>   ,                          ,                           ,
> Stephane Boucher, ing. jr. | Ecole Polytechnique de Montreal
> sbo@vlsi.polymtl.ca        | Tel: (514)340-5950
> sbo@info.polymtl.ca        | Fax: (514)340-4078


Tu as raison, Stephane, c'est dificile as comprendre comment on
peut implementer un systeme comme j'ai propose.

Tu as encore raison - le parti Liberale du Quebec n'as pas respecter
son propre programme. Au debut des annee '80+ le Parti Liberale du
Quebec as s'engage (s'attacher ? :-) ) a:-

"...permettre a tous les enfants dont les parents sont de langue
 maternelle anglaise de frequenter l'ecole anglaise. Dans l'application
 de cette loi, le Parti Liberal de Quebec entend se servir principalement
 du critere de frequentation de l'ecole anglaise par les parents."
         {"Societe Liberale de Demain", Janvier, 1981}


:-)

-- 
  ///==================================================================\\\
  ||| Steve Potter:         steven%spxtech@CAM.ORG                     |||
  ||| Expertise/Experience: Computer Systems Engineering / Real Ale /  |||
  |||                       Politics in Education in Quebec            |||
Xref: sparky can.general:4381 can.politics:6600 soc.culture.canada:6411
From: robert@isgtec.com (Robert Osborne)
Newsgroups: can.general,can.politics,soc.culture.canada
Subject: Re: Election sun rising
Date: 8 Sep 92 18:59:31 GMT

jmorriso@ee.ubc.ca (John Paul Morrison) writes:
> I think it's frightening that a party could theoritcally
> win 51% of the vote in every riding, and get 100% of the seats.

It's much worse than that!   Most ridings have 4-5 candidates; urbans
areas much more.  Since you only have to have more votes than any other
candidate this means that the winner could have <20 of the popular
vote.  A majority government could, in theory, be formed with a popular
vote of <10%!

> I think an MP or MLA should be a proxy for MY vote, not a party's agenda.
> An MP in parliament should be a proportional MP. It sounds funny to have
> 1/2 an MP, but it makes sense, at least in a purely democratic way. If
> a candidate gets 25,000 votes, that person should be able to go to 
> parliament as proxy for those 25,000 people. When voting, they would get up
> and  say "the 25,000 votes I represent are cast for ..." This would mean 
> more people in parliament, but not realy any more money: an MP would get
> paid according to his clout. Someone with a few hundred votes might
> get a few bucks tops. 

I've dreamed of a system like this.  But I'd want to be able to transfer
my proxy fairly quickly...

Rob.
--
Robert A. Osborne   ...!uunet.ca!isgtec!robert or robert@isgtec.com
From: steve@Nyongwa.CAM.ORG (Steve M. Robbins)
Newsgroups: can.general
Subject: Re: Zundel
Date: 5 Sep 92 00:31:40 GMT
Organization: Chiral Symmetry Breaking, Inc.

In article <1992Sep2.193043.692@bcars6a8.bnr.ca> clewis@bcarh1d7.bnr.ca (Chris Lewis) writes:
>In article <12727@hans> hans@Software.Mitel.COM (Hans Johnsen) writes:
>>dkmiller@unixg.ubc.ca (Derek K. Miller) writes:
>>>Zundel was charged under the "spreading of false news" law, and Keegstra
>>>under the "promoting hatred" law. They are different, and the Supreme
>>>Court has ruled that the first is too vague and violates freedom of speech
>>>provisions of the Charter of Rights and Freedoms;
>
>>I'll just add, in case you think that laws against lying cannot be
>>abused, that the law was (I'm fairly sure) written to protect the
>>monarchs from damaging rumours. While this may be a "nice" thing
>>to do, I think only Dave Yadallee would support a law like that.
>
>'Fraid not.  Neither of these laws are very old.  15 years at most.
>And neither of them have ever been used before.  Neither of them would
>be applicable to monarchs anyways.  (Do you consider the Queen to
>be an "identifiable group"?)
>
>Hell, if they were invented to "protect the monarch", doncha think Britain
>would have similar laws?   It's obvious that they don't.

Well, according to the excerpt of the Judgement printed in the Globe and Mail,
(31 August, page A19) it *was* enacted to protect monarchs and "Great Men of 
the Realm".

Here's what it says:

"S.181 [of the Criminal Code] dates from the Statue of Westminster in 1275
...
    Although the offence of spreading false news was abolished in England
in 1887, and does not survive in the U.S., it was enacted in Canada as part
of the 1892 Criminal Code.  The reason for the offence's retention in Canada
is unknown.  [F.R.] Scott suggests that it may have been no more than an 
oversight, with no one in Canada being aware that the English provision had been
repealed four years previously..."

It's really too bad that Chris Lewis doesn't pay attention to the news before
posting false news here...


-- 
Steve Robbins  --  steve@nyongwa.cam.org
Pretend to spank me -- I'm a pseudo-masochist.
Newsgroups: can.general,soc.culture.canada
From: merce@iguana.uucp (Jim Mercer)
Subject: Re: Tragedy at concordia and a net-proposal to prevent furthur incidents
Organization: Ed (the iguana) Memorial Society
Date: Sat, 5 Sep 92 23:36:03 GMT

In article <1992Sep4.175358.18982@mcshub.dcss.mcmaster.ca> masonp@physun.physics.mcmaster.ca (Peter Mason) writes:
>In article <1992Sep3.212907.25612@ohrd.uucp> ohrd!rdowlati@cs.toronto.edu (Ramin Dowlati) writes:
>>Obviously there are alot of loop holes, and the laws are not strict enough.
>>Can anybody out there really justify the sale of fire arms in this society?
>>Surely, we can maintain some type of hunters association and isolate the
>>fire arms within them so they don't find their way into the cities.

if you foce gun owners to keep their guns in a central location, that central
location becomes a target for criminals.

>it's the sale of Hand Guns that just
>baffles me.  What exactly are hand guns designed for?

hand guns are designed for the same purpose as rifles, crossbows, etc.

shooting.

sometimes the targets differ, but the basic premise is to launch a projectile
at high velocity.

>Shooting people.

shooting. <- period

i like to go to a range and fire some rounds at targets with a handgun.

this is a past-time i enjoy.

the number of crimes committed each year with properly registered handguns
in canada, is very low.  much lower than deaths attributed to knifings.

ban private ownership of knives.

force them to register their knives.

-- 
[ Jim Mercer   Reptilian Research  merce@iguana.reptiles.org  +1 519 893-6085 ]
[   "Like a pump in a fish tank, we keep new things coming in so old things   ]
[    don't die." -- Archie McPhee Catalog                                     ]
Xref: sparky can.general:4402 soc.culture.canada:6439
From: montas@stable.ecn.purdue.edu (Hubert J Montas)
Subject: Re: Tragedy at concordia and a net-proposal to prevent furthur incidents
Organization: Purdue University Engineering Computer Network
Date: Mon, 7 Sep 1992 02:51:59 GMT

      Hi,
          I think that the principal motivation for murder is not
          the ownership of guns, but boredom! Ain't you bored yet?

          Hubert.

Newsgroups: can.general
From: nadeau@bnr.ca (Rheal Nadeau)
Subject: Re: zundel
Organization: Bell-Northern Research Ltd., Ottawa, Canada
Distribution: can
Date: Sun, 6 Sep 1992 01:19:22 GMT

In article <1992Sep5.709.6593@dosgate> "steve hartwell" <steve.hartwell@canrem.com> writes:
>
> After it's history, a self-proclaimed Nazi must surely be legally
> recognized as worse than a murderer. And, should be tried, and if
> found guilty of being a Nazi, should be likewise punished, at least
> to the same degree as a murderer, which in Canada does not carry
> the death penalty anymore. For something worse than a murderer,
> perhaps we could have the death penalty.

"Nazi" is a word.  It appeals to certain misguided, racist, losers.
That does not automatically make them murderers.

Or shall we condemn all Christians (literally condemn them, with harsh
sanctions) on the basis of the crimes committed in the name of
Christianity in the past?  After all, Christians have been proven
guilty of genocide in their dealings with the Natives of Central and
South America.  And some people have "proof" of crimes against
humanity committed by the world-wide Zionist conspiracy.

Judging people by labels, and taking harsh action on the basis of those
labels, is precisely what the Nazis are advocating!  (And "Nazi" itself
is just a label, for Zundel and the neo-Nazis and other assorted
losers.  Most of them don't even have a clear idea of what the label
means.)

Judge Zundel by his actions.  He is no doubt despicable, but he isn't
Hitler (however much he might aspire to be, though I don't know - is
this really what he dreams of?)

Why am I defending Zundel?  I'm not defending him - I'm defending the
right to speak freely, though one may espouse unpopular opinions.
After all, I hold some opinions that are unpopular in certain
circles...

The Rhealist - Rheal Nadeau - nadeau@bnr.ca - Speaking only for myself
Newsgroups: can.general,soc.culture.canada
From: tdwebste@stylus.uwaterloo.ca (Timothy D. Webster)
Subject: Gun control should be a compromise.
Organization: University of Waterloo
Date: Wed, 9 Sep 1992 00:18:24 GMT

>Exactly.  Canadian "gun control" will only affect law abiding citizens, 
>until such time as there isn't leakage over the US border.
>-- 
>Christopher Browne
>cbbrowne@csi.uottawa.ca
>University of Ottawa
>Master of System Science Program

As of October 1st it will be harder to purchase many
semi-automatic hunting rifles. The prime target appears to be rifles
which can be converted to automatic. In principle no big deal, but
many newer more reliable rifles are military derivatives. In my
oppinion a good hunting rifle should 
- have a proven field record. (reliable) 
- provide fast clip changing. (these things always run out at the worst times)
- be semi-auto (a second chance if the first shoot only injures it.
                that is cruel)
- collapsible for portability (going through trails.)
- no less than 20 bullets.

Last year a nieghbour's dog came onto our property and began to attact
our dog (a cattle dog). I spent 12 bullets trying to get the dog to go
away. Everytime that dog stopped I shot at its feet trying to spray dirt 
at it. I could of killed the dog with the first shot, but decided not to 
because it was a nieghbour's. The dog ran up to us and tried to attack us.
I grazed the dog. The next and last shoot, if I had to use it would kill 
the animal. 

On farms rifles and shot guns are necessary, eventhough they are not
used day in day out. If I had anything less than a semi-automatic our
neighbour would be less one dog. The semi-automatic allowed me to
follow the dog constantly and if necessary I could of killed it at 
anytime. A quick change clip might of allowed me to scare it more before
I had to take serious aim. 

-Tim.

P.S. I provided this for those of you who seem to think guns have no
legitimate purpose.

P.P.S. It doesn't make sense to ban these semi-automatic rifles. It
makes more sense to permanently get rid of the drug dealers who missuse 
them.
--------------------------------------------------------------------
These are my oppinions and I like them so hands off. Get your own...
Newsgroups: can.general,can.politics,soc.culture.canada
From: marky@engin.umich.edu (Mark Anthony Young)
Subject: Re: Lower and upper Canadas
Date: Tue, 08 Sep 92 22:27:49 EDT
Organization: University of Michigan Engineering, Ann Arbor

nadeau@bnr.ca (Rheal Nadeau) writes:
>Aye, time for a history lesson (from someone who has no busines giving
>history lessons.  What year did Champlain settle in Quebec?  Uh, 1908?
>:-) )
>
While you're out by 300 years here, you actually got within about half
a century in the rest of your article.... :->

>While much is made of the battle of the Plains of Abraham in Canadian
>history, this was a mere skirmish in the war between Napoleonic France
>and England.  (The colonies, at that time, were considered minor
>possessions.)  This war was resolved, of course, at Waterloo.  (It had
>to be resolved again later, of course; that's the way history works.)
>
The battle on the Plains of Abraham was part of the Seven Years' War,
1756-63.  Napoleon didn't come to power until 1799, and Waterloo was
in 1815 (?).

...mark young
Newsgroups: can.general,can.politics,soc.culture.canada
From: dat@thinkage.on.ca (David Adrien Tanguay)
Subject: Re: Election sun rising
Organization: Thinkage, Ltd.
Date: Wed, 9 Sep 1992 02:22:27 GMT

thood@corvus.matrox.com (Thomas Hood) writes:
>Parties are needed to band members together so that they can form a stable
>government.  Parties decide on a policy, and require members to follow the
>policy.  If the member cannot follow the policy, he's out of the party.
>
>The reformers in this thread now have two conflicting positions.
>1) Allow members more freedom from party discipline.
>2) Subject members to absolute party discipline, on pain of recall.
>
>If there were less discipline, governments would have trouble implementing
>a coherent programme.  If there were more, backbenchers would lose whatever
>bargaining power they have in the making of that programme.

What's needed is a proper balance between party discipline and an MPs duty
to represent the riding. What is proper? I think the Canadian system
currently gives the party too much power, or, looking at it another way,
the system requires that the party has too much power.

>The current system works pretty well.

Given the opinion most Canadians have of their politicians, I think you're
wrong here.

(But I don't think we're too far off, either.)
-- 
David Tanguay       dat@Thinkage.on.ca  dat@Thinkage.com  uunet!thinkage!dat
Thinkage, Ltd.           Kitchener, Ontario, Canada          [43.40N 80.47W]
Xref: sparky can.general:4330 can.politics:6508 soc.culture.canada:6339
From: steven@spxtech.qc.ca (Steve Potter)
Newsgroups: can.general,can.politics,soc.culture.canada
Subject: Re: Lower and upper Canadas
Date: 6 Sep 92 14:21:43 GMT
Organization: Securiplex Technologies Inc., Montreal, Canada
X-Bytes: 1169

From article <Bu4rKJ.42s@ireq.hydro.qc.ca>, by beaurega@ireq.hydro.qc.ca (Denis Beauregard):
> In 1840, Lower and Upper Canadas were merged so that Ontario debt
> from recent settlement was cancelled.  But, if you check in various
> census, you will see that they were considered as 2 provinces.
> 
> In 1867, province of Quebec was "created" by renaming Lower Canada.
> But, the "Province of Quebec" was formed in about 1765 and included
> Quebec, Ontario and south of Great Lakes (northern part was added later).
> 
> FYI, see the division of Canada in censuses of 1825, 1831/1832, 1841, 
> 1851, 1861 and 1871.
> 

Forgive my relative ignorance of Canadian history. (It having been taught
to me from a British perspective in England, to begin with.)

Didn't "New France" become "Quebec" in 1759/1760 after France abandoned
it, under Montcalm, to General Wolfe?

-- 
  ///==================================================================\\\
  ||| Steve Potter:         steven%spxtech@CAM.ORG                     |||
  ||| Expertise/Experience: Computer Systems Engineering / Real Ale /  |||
  |||                       Politics in Education in Quebec            |||
From: yadallee@ersys.edmonton.ab.ca (Dave Shariff Yadallee)
Newsgroups: can.general
Subject: Re: Zundel
Date: Wed, 09 Sep 92 05:54:16 MDT
Organization: Edmonton Remote Systems #2, Edmonton, AB, Canada

marc@meadow.uucp (Marc Riehm) writes:

- The evolving .signature of Mr. Yadallee now looks like this ...
-
  [sig deleted for a good reason]
-
- "Key to Armageddon"?  Whatsa matter, Dave -- been watching too much of
- "The World Tomorrow" or reading too much of "The Plain Truth"?
-
- --
- Marc Riehm      Amdahl Canada Ltd., Software Development Center
-                 2000 Argentia Road, Plaza 2, Suite 300
-                 Mississauga, Ont.   L5N 1V8
- marc@meadow.UUCP

  How can you?  Cult shows and magaizines?  Marc let try, Visions TV, mostly
Christian programming on Sunday EXCEPT "The World Tommorow" and I read Hal
Lindsay, Billy Graham, et al.

  On the right track, but badly deceived.

Dave Shariff Yadallee (yadallee@ersys.edmonton.ab.ca,
userLIBE@mts.ucs.ualberta.ca)
God Save the Queen, God Bless us All! Remember! Jesus Saves!!
Treaty of Maastricht, synonymous with the Key to Armageddon.
Newsgroups: can.general,soc.culture.canada
From: jdnicoll@watyew.uwaterloo.ca (James Davis Nicoll)
Subject: Re: Bigger worries than which lane to drive in
Organization: University of Waterloo
Date: Thu, 10 Sep 1992 14:01:39 GMT

	Re:  the unification of Europe: 

	Is a peaceful, unified Europe in Canada's best interests? Balkanised
regions might find it harder to lock us out of their markets, and unified
regions may find it easier (because of relative size) to interfere in the 
affairs of minor nations like Canada.

	I  can  see an argument for the desirablility of peace, but what 
benefits does the EEC hold for Canada?

								James Nicoll
From: andchan@newton.amath.umanitoba.ca (Andrew Chan)
Newsgroups: can.general
Subject: need help on pricing of new cars - Sentra XE/Civic LX
Date: 15 Sep 92 02:55:19 GMT
Distribution: can
Organization: University of Manitoba, Winnipeg, Canada

Greetings:

We are about to buy either a 92 Nissan Sentra XE or an 92 Honda LX 4 door
(with air-cond).

Not being power negotiaters, we would very much appreciate any
advice/experience from the net regarding the realistic rock bottom prices we
should try to bargain for.

We tried some car buying books available in the book stores but the
"dealer/firm price" they quote doesn't seem to fit the reality anymore.
With some quoted "dealer/firm price" actually more expensive that what the
dealers want from us now.

Thanks in advance for any advice.
-- 
We are a rare as well as an endangered species.  Every one of us is,
in the cosmic perspective, precious.  If a human disagrees with you,
let him live.  In a hundred billion galaxies, you will not find another.
							- Carl Sagan
Xref: sparky can.general:4299 can.politics:6459 soc.culture.canada:6305
Newsgroups: can.general,can.politics,soc.culture.canada
From: robinson@mdivax1.uucp (Jim Robinson)
Subject: Re: Election sun rising
Reply-To: robinson@mdd.comm.mot.com (Jim Robinson)
Organization: Motorola - Mobile Data Division; Richmond, BC
X-Newsreader: Tin 1.1 PL5
Date: 5 Sep 92 01:04:02 GMT

Rheal Nadeau (nadeau@bnr.ca) wrote:
>In article <1992Sep4.180742.5242@bnr.ca> alanw@bnr.ca writes:
>
>>The Canadian Parliamentary system wouldn't be that bad, if only we could crack
>>party discipline.
>
>Once again:  Proportional representation!  If a party gets 40% of the
>votes, they get 40% of the seats.  Period.  So no majority government
>unless a party gets more than 50% of the votes, which is unlikely even
>now, and would be even more unlikely in a proportional representation
>system (how many people favour the Green Party, for example, but vote
>PC or liberal because they feel voting Green would be throwing their
>vote away?  But with PropRep, 1% of the vote would get the Greens 2 or
>3 seats, so the vote WOULD count.)

Although I agree, for the most part, with the points that Rheal makes re PR
[which I have deleted for the sake of brevity], I think I would prefer a
system that includes the German restriction that a party must receive at
least 5% of the vote in order to qualify for seats in Parliament. The
Germans seem to have done quite well with this arrangement whereas Italy
and Israel have no such rule and the result seems to often be chaos in the
case of Italy (I believe that the average life expectancy of an Italian
government is under a year), or a situation where a number of small parties
with little popular support are able to wield influence totally out of
proportion to the votes they received, as happens in Israel.
-- 
Jim Robinson
robinson@mdd.comm.mot.com
{ubc-cs!van-bc,uunet}!mdivax1!robinson

Newsgroups: can.general,can.politics,soc.culture.canada