HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: IQTI400@INDYCMS.IUPUI.EDU (macphil)
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.politics
Subject: Re: New York Presidential Poll
Date: 15 Oct 92 14:13:31 GMT
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On Thu, 15 Oct 1992 00:44:00 EDT <CMORRISO@SNYESCVA> said:

>        The article said that there had been two attempts to revolutionize
>crime programs.  One was the LBJ attack on the roots of crime, the other
>was the Reaganite attack on criminals.  It said that neither had really
>worked, then went on to suggest some pointers for developing a crime-control
>policy.  It was an interesting article.

And (in summary) those pointers are?

I'm still waiting to see if anyone can show it's possible to prosecute/
collect evidence against "criminals" /s violating their civil rights
when there are no witnesses...


gore Clinton in '92.

------------------------------------------------------------------------
"The lesser of two evils is still evil." - Winston Churchill

MacPhil / iqti400@indycms.bitnet / iqti400@indycms.iupui.edu
From: JCOCURUL@DREW.BITNET
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.politics
Subject: Re: VP debate and such...
Date: 15 Oct 92 15:05:00 GMT
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In article <tfilt354369@drew.edu>, Travis Kidd <TKIDD@CLEMSON.BITNET> writes:
> Isn't it funny that Gore believes in the right of a woman to choose
> (choose what?  To eat at Burger King over McDonalds?) but not the

It was more funny when Quayle said abortion was not
something to be fickle on, when his boss used to support it be in
support of it before he became vice president. Or that , now this is
hilarious, that the president, the head of the Republican party,
doesn't agree with his own party's platform (he supports abortion for
rape or incest, at a little while ago he did).  Bush and Quayle are
funny guys.

> Just a quick note:  Unless the job involves crossing state lines, any
>                     federally-mandated family leave act for anything
>                     other than federal employees is unconstitional.
>
>
> -Travis
>
    Interstate commerce is the use of commerce that crosses state
lines;  you will be hard pressed to find a company these days
(especially since very small firms are exempt) that don't have their
goods cross state lines in some fashion.  I'm happy you wasn't on the
Supreme Court during the New Deal.
     Though I'm pretty sure this is their justification, I have a
theory that family leave is a kind of tax, a tax both in the value of
the time lost and a tax in kind (allowing the people to not be at
work).  Congress has a right to raise taxes for the "general welfare",
which this surely is as is the case with social security taxes, which
aren't that different from this.  Of course, conservatives such as
Bush didn't like social security or in  Bush's case Medicaid to be
required.


    -Joe
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Date:         Tue, 13 Oct 1992 16:35:58 EDT
From:         Mike <ST801708@BROWNVM.BITNET>
Subject:      Re: Y'all stop bein' mean to Jimmuh Cahtuh

Hi there, people!  This is my first post so go easy on me if you would.  Since
I'm almost done Friedman's _Free To Choose_ and he speaks about the economics
of the '70's oil crisis, I felt the overwhelming urge to respond.  There was
nothing wrong with Nixon's decision for letting the dollar float.  The "devalua
tion" of the dollar simply brought it in line with existing currency rates arou
nd the world.  The reason we had the freakin' oil crisis is because Carter as
well as Ford and Nixon put a ceiling on prices which could be charged for oil
by U.S. oil companies.  This ceiling was below the cost which OPEC had imposed
on the whole world.  A little proof.  Where there was no ceiling on prices,
places like Germany and Japan, countries which depend totally 100% on foreign
oil, there was no "oil crisis".  Sure, the price of oil went up, but that did
not stop people from buying oil at the new high prices.  In the U.S. and Britai
n, who produce much of their own oil (Britain actually being an oil exporter),
there was indeed a big bad ole oil crisis.  And this was solely due to the
governmental economic policy.  You let the market go and it does mostly good
things, you let the government go and in the name of protecting consumers from
high prices or "windfall profits", you get mile-long gas lines and shortages.
If there are any questions, feel free to write me and ask.  Hope this helped a
little.

                             --Mike (an econ major dontcha know)
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Date:         Mon, 12 Oct 1992 09:49:00 CST
From:         HIGHLANDER <940253JT@GBVAXA.UWGB.EDU>
Subject:      Percentages adjust
Comments: To: politics@ucf1vm.cc.ucf.edu

	Percentages don't adjust as population increase, John.  If 1 out of
100 people is killed (1%) with a handgun, it stands to reason that with a
similar population 2 out of 200 (1%) people would be killed.  A larger
population does not mean that percentages would increase.  You wouldn't
lose one out of one hundred, but five out of 200.  If that were so,
at a certain point 100% of the population would be killed by handguns.
	Think about it.
From: UNCPJS@UNC.BITNET (Peter J. Schledorn)
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.politics
Subject: Re: post-debate reaction: yes, my spirit is snoring!
Date: 13 Oct 92 17:07:00 GMT
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU

>         Listen Peter, I am not saying it was a mistake.  I organized in my

Relax, Chris!  I'm pissed at Clinton, not at you.  Actually, I'm
really pissed at all three of them, but Clinton's the only one I
had expected to know better.  I find the trio tiptoeing around the
issue of the right to dissent (in fact, the duty to dissent) to be
as disgusting as the smarmy posturing on the drug issue that Jamie
pointed out.

It kind of underscores the hollowness of the whole campaign (if it
is possible to underscore something that isn't there :-).

Best,
Peter

>                                         Chris Morrison
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Date:         Mon, 12 Oct 1992 02:10:00 EST
From:         YONI@BROWNCOG.BITNET
Subject:      Re: post-debate reaction

So with this latest debate, can we predict what might happen with Perot in
November?
Also, does anyone have some info on James Stockdale?
Lance
From: KILBURN@WVSVAX.WVNET.EDU
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.politics
Subject: Re: New blood or just blood...
Date: 13 Oct 92 19:59:28 GMT
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Hi, Steve, and welcome aboard.

>My hasty statement to this list was made without much thought or basis.
>However, I'm not sure that my animosity toward the academic community is
>totally *anti-rational*. Where I'm at; (I'm now employed as a typing
>clerk in the graduate admissions office of Southern Illinois University)
>we are in a very serious financial crisis and all I see is a lot of
>very educated people trying to pin the blame on someone else.

Believe me, I understand your frustration :)  But when you're thinking
about "the academic community", bear in mind that you're thinking about a
pretty heterogeneous group of institutions and an even more heterogeneous
group of individuals.  Yes, according to the AAUP, schools are acquiring
administrators at a greater rate than they are faculty.  Yes, federal and
state funding is dropping.  No, no one wants to be identified as a member
of the department that the school can do without.

At the same time, though, at least some institutions are facing broader and
more inclusive mandates from the folks who write the paychecks.  It's not
enough any more that I teach biology -- I also am expected to promote
writing competency, quantitative skills and critical thinking in students
who didn't learn in high school what I learned in elementary school; I'm
supposed to work actively to improve recruitment and retention (especially
in women, racial/ethnic minorities, and other non-traditional students);
I've been asked to help develop "assessment tools" that will allow
legislators to decide how well I'm doing my job and whether or not I
deserve my princely salary.

I guess I'm asking you to take a little bit broader view -- to recognize
differences among types of institutions, to see the problem inherent in
cutting funding while increasing the number of "tasks" to be performed, and
to realize that my job is as demanding in its own way as that of a
roughneck or toolpusher.  I just don't get outside as much :)

Kerry
p.s.: for the rest of you faculty-types out there -- I teach three
different courses, each with lecture + lab (I prep 'em all myself), for a
total of 16-18 contact hours per week.  Care to swap with me? :) :) :)
From: ANTHLAL@UMNACVX.BITNET
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.politics
Subject: nag, nag, nag
Date: 7 Oct 92 15:48:17 GMT
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this "jamie-is-a-liar/no-i'm-not-you-are/i-know-you-are-but-what-am-i"
business has got to end.  jason, i am holding you personally accountable
for the perpetuation of this nonsense.  in the words of chuck yeager,
"shut up and die like an aviator."
do super-soaker waterguns at 30 paces.  do .38 caliber handguns at 10 paces.
i don't care *what* you people do, but quit sniping at each other.  most
people on this list probably already have a pretty good idea of who's lying
(or not) about what, anyway.
yawn.
slow news day.
rich, do you really think that ted sorenson is gonna admit that he wrote
_profiles in courage_ at this point?  i'm sure joe took care of him very well.
read _why england slept_.  the prose style is entirely different.
and anyway, it's fun to cast aspersion on royalty.

didn't see perot's thing last night.  i was feeling kind of down and
decided not to compound the problem.  my mom said it was a real
humdinger of a talk, though.  my father, tossing in his two cents on the
extension phone, grumbled about, i don't know, affirmative action violations
or something in ross's company.  anybody know anything about this?

i have been interested in how this "war" between russia and georgia is being
buried in the newspapers and on the newswires.  why isn't the united nations
kicking up harry about this?  i will also add that reports about serbia and
croatia have trickled to a halt.  i guess the world is moving on to deal
with fresher, more telegenic tragedies.

it's funny...i was cleaning out my office and found a letter that i had
started to someone on this list, written the day perot withdrew from the
presidential race.  in it, i said "i think this is very strange, and would not b
   e surprised to see him reenter sooner or later...probably later, like around
   the end of september."
there may be money in this...i will soon offer palm readings and tarot, too.

i also thought the alfonse "you say d'amayto, i say" d'amato filibuster
was kinda funny.  the ap was putting out bulletins:  "the senator has
sent out for throat lozenges!"  "the senator has asked for an orangina!"
my guess was that he requested luden's wild cherry cough drops, the
imposter of the over-the-counter throat-remedy line.  do these things
really do anything for anyone?  i mean, sure, the honey-lemon kind sort of
lull you into thinking they're medicinal, but the cherry kind are just
kind of a treat.  now, vicks.  *there's* something that tastes bad enough
to actually maybe be doing you some good.  but where was i?  oh, yeah,
d'amato.  when he broke into song in order to eat up some time was when i
quit listening.  listen, al:  sam rayburn is no longer running the
show.  lyndon johnson is dead.  huey p. long has gone the way of the
west.  *filibuster*?  isn't that some kind of peanut or something?
more importantly...did it work?

ah, congress.  the last true sport.

anneliese.
Organization: York University
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.politics
Date:         Fri, 9 Oct 1992 23:58:19 EDT
From:         MMORSE@YORKVM1.BITNET
Subject:      Re: The Canadian Experience with Gun Control

Come on Andy, cut the crap. You don't care what the experience of
the civilized world is, you don't care about statistics, you don't
care about accidental deaths, you don't care what the constitution
says (how exactly do you weasle your way around the "purposes of
forming a militia" clause?), and, to get to the heart of the matter,
you will reject out of hand any argument of any kind that gainsays
what you believe to be your inalienable right to own, brandish, and
boast about a lethal metal penis. There's no reasoning with you on
this, so why don't we just drop it and move on to something which
is genuinely open to discussion?
Cordially,
Michael
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Date:         Thu, 8 Oct 1992 18:52:25 -0500
From:         MARTIN FOX <FOXML@RHODES.BITNET>
Subject:      Re: _Wings of Eagles_

Linda> 8th grade? Did YOU SAY 8TH GRADE?
>i think i'm going to cry.

Yes, Linda, I read it in 8th grade.  It was a phase I was going through.
I'm much better now, though.
Interesting Perot connection, though:  When he was considering getting into
the race, a Tennessee politician was prodding him to do so.  This politician,
John Jay Hooker (I think I got the name right) was one of the more corrupt
of the Good ole boys down in this state where corrupt good ole boys aren't
terribly uncommon.  He even lost an attempt to become gov'ner to a *Republican*.
   His connection with Perot could be interesting....

Now about the age thing (Hey - a bushism!): I am but a lowly 1st year student

However, I will live longer than most of the rest of you. :)...

Be Seeing You,
Martin
From: RIGEORGE@VASSAR.BITNET (Rick George)
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.politics
Subject: Re: The New Format
Date: 16 Oct 92 18:26:12 GMT
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>>>Yesterday's Trib said she was the first minority female news anchor in
>>>Chicago and this was probably why she was given the job...
>
>>Oh sure, she's a member of a minority group and she got the job...therefore
>>she got the job because she's a member of a minority group.  Wonderful
>>logic.
>
>So you don't think such things occur?
>
>MacPhil


It really doesn't matter whether such things occur.  What matters is
that either the Trib or you (I can't tell whose belief it it from the
way you've written it) made the unsupported statement that Simpson
probably got her job because she belongs to a minority group.  If
someone is given a job because of a trait, it doesn't follow that all
people who have that trait got their jobs that way.

...Rick
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Newsgroups: bit.listserv.politics
Date:         Mon, 12 Oct 1992 10:04:35 CDT
From:         fred <CCHILDER@UNMCVM.BITNET>
Subject:      the debate - home game

Many cult series, such as star trek, have drinking games associated with
them that cover certain catch phrases or scenes. I propose that we come
up with our own game in time for the next debate. To start the ball
rolling, here are one drink minimum items for the next debate:

- Every time goerge says "tax and spend"

- Every time Perot says "are we gonna do it or just talk about it?"

- Every time Clinton says "Bush is running against every democrat
except me"

Please feel free to add your own catch phrases.

fred
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Date:         Mon, 12 Oct 1992 18:43:21 -0500
From:         "VALENTINE M. SMITH" <CDELL@UMKCVAX1.BITNET>
Subject:      Are the rest of you getting double copies of messages?

Since early this afternoon I've been struggling with this. I wrote a note
to the listowner, but it will at least tomorrow morning before he gets it.
Curious, VMS
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Date:         Tue, 13 Oct 1992 23:56:00 EST
From:         YONI@BROWNCOG.BITNET
Subject:      Re: Gonna try to be first this time

>But our boy (Gore) could have done so much better than he did!
In many ways that is true. If you think about it, Gore was under a great deal
amount of pressure. He had to live up to this awesome image of a vanquisher
in the debate--he was annointed winner long before the debate actually took plac
. WHile it is true that Quayle was slightly too aggressive and not that coheren
   t
/accurate, he did do one thing--make it seem like Gore was under the fire. When
I say aggressive, I guess I mean defensively aggressive. Quayle could have been
a bit more cal--better effect. But it seems the only way Quayle can make himself
look sharp is by acting like a firecracker/lightning rod. If we look at the
Republican Nat'l Converntion, we see Quayle used the same manner and tone as
he did in the debate--defensive, quick, hyper, but not really saying anything
important.
Well, I guess that was all Quayle needed to do in this debate to make himself
look decently strong. All he had to do was look powerful, even if what he said
was inaccurate and wrong, he still carried a tougher image.
Lance
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Date:         Fri, 9 Oct 1992 17:12:00 -0400
From:         I am Can Be Worshiped By Check Or Money Order Or Cash
              <STUSTITH@EKU.BITNET>
Subject:      Re: Electoral College

Well... Clinton has a decent lead in the Bluegrass state and it has
8 electoral votes after the redistricting. In case anyone is interested
a long time incumbant has been uprooted with Carrol Hubbard losing
his primary, also  Larry Hopkins of the Lexington district is leaving
office after an unsuccessful attempt at the Governor's Office. Also
There  is  close race in eastern portion of the state with John Doug Hayes(D)
and Hal Rogers. Also Representative Mazzoli of Louisville and Jim Bunning
both are facing tough challenges as well. The only congressman not facing
a serious challenge is William Natcher, senior congressman of 40 years
. Also, Wendell Ford(senate majority whip) is running for re-election
some of the races are close and should be interesting. If anyone would like
information, don't hesitate to ask


      John Stith(stustith@eku)
From: SABOE@VUVAXCOM.BITNET (linda)
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.politics
Subject: Re: Aztecs- Playing Games
Date: 14 Oct 92 19:54:00 GMT
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>        I thought it was quite clever, Carl!  Linda was probably in a bad mood
>when she wrote that -- it happens to all of us.

dear chris,
gee, thanks for being soooooo understanding, and trying to explain my behavior.
no, i wasn't in a bad mood, i just prefer to be asked my opinions directly.
and, i think i'm pretty consistant in my thinking. personally, i don't like
"trick questions" of that sort, and i know very few people who do.


-linda   *now* i'm in a bad mood (well, not really, but i just thought i'd say
that cause i'm so darn witty :))
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Date:         Fri, 9 Oct 1992 14:41:28 -0400
From:         KILBURN@WVSVAX.WVNET.EDU
Subject:      Re: campaign politics -- uggh

Tim:
>Of course, these are also the same people who are
>intently following the saga of the bat-child.
>The Weekly World News sells a lot of papers.

Didja know he's escaped?  Really.  Says so right on the front page.
According to a flyer posted on our department bulletin board, I'm a chief
suspect :)

Kerry
who was treated to the story about the WV bat boy at this year's meeting of
the American Society of Mammalogists -- but not until well into the first
keg :)
From: MEC038@UKCC.UKY.EDU (K=A*T)
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.politics
Subject: Re: Aztecs- Playing Games
Date: 15 Oct 92 13:36:00 GMT
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From:         linda <SABOE@VUVAXCOM.BITNET>

>>    Cheer up, at least I didn't say you were probably suffering from PMS.

> groan.
> chris, i was wondering....
> pms sufferers have hormonal fluctuations as excuse for mood swings...
> what's a man's excuse???

I don't know about other men, but I always use my WIFE's
PMS and hormonal fluctuation as an excuse for my mood
swings.  ....just kidding.

> - linda

--KAT :-)
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Date:         Mon, 12 Oct 1992 15:18:15 EDT
From:         K=A*T <MEC038@UKCC.UKY.EDU>
Subject:      Re: Guns, Freud, and Psychology
              12 Oct 1992 11:17:08 -0700 from <andy@SAIL.STANFORD.EDU>

From:         Andy Freeman <andy@SAIL.STANFORD.EDU>

>>> Here's a start: I oppose gun laws that don't affect crime.  ........

>> Fine.  But do you also oppose gun control laws that decrease
>> crime?

> As I wrote in the section that KAT didn't bother to quote, I oppose
> unprofitable laws no matter what the subject; that applies to crime
> laws as well, not to mention gun laws.  Whether or not the costs are
> acceptable depends on the delivered benefits.*

Fair enough.  Let me elaborate.

Do you oppose gun control laws that decrease crime AND are
also "profitable?"

I am hoping that you would not have any problems answering this
one.  After all, you were willing to make the following
comment regarding pornography.

> Consider pornography.  Some people think it should be restricted
> whether or not that provides any benefits.  I disagree.  My position
> on porn restrictions depends on how the delivered benefits compare to
> the incurred costs.  If there aren't any delivered benefits ....

Again, will you agree to gun control laws if delivered benefits
compare to the incurred costs?  In other words this is saying
exactly the same thing you said for pornography.

If I remember correctly from our previous discussion, you would
not agree to the above statement by saying something like, "I
would not consider making such statements based on hypothetical
statements."  But realize that I said "*if*".  And after all by
asking you such question I am making sure we agree on grounds rules,
one of which is, "if benefits is more than cost you will agree to
gun control laws."

I really want to know the answer to that question.

> -andy actually doesn't actively oppose every unprofitable law.  His
>       "opposition level" depends somewhat on the loss incurred and
>       what else he has to do.

--KAT
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