HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: roger@crux.Princeton.EDU (Roger Lustig)
Subject: Re: The Monthly Cecil Fielder Thread
Originator: news@nimaster
Reply-To: roger@astro.princeton.edu (Roger Lustig)
Organization: Princeton University
Date: Fri, 4 Sep 1992 03:18:14 GMT

In article <1992Sep3.213256.13572@nntpd.lkg.dec.com> g_waugaman@nac.enet.dec.com (Glenn R. Waugaman) writes:
>
>In article <1992Sep2.170300.28701@Princeton.EDU>, roger@crux.Princeton.EDU (Roger Lustig) writes...

>>>	You're right about defense and running ability, but I was solely 
>>>	arguing RBI ability.

>>Great.  Now argue that there is such a thing.  Seems to me that Fielder's
>>"RBI ability" is in fact composed of his power hitting (great in 90, good
>>in 91, mediocre this year) plus the on-base ability of the guys ahead of 
>>him.  He wouldn't have 110 RBI playing for the Mets...

>Let's worry about the trait more so than its magnitude.  No one will argue 
>that the team around Fielder is greatly to his advantage...

>In 1991 Fielder hit .289/.392/.601 (26 HR) with runners on base, 
>.236/.303/.433 (18 HR) with the bases empty in a comparable number of
>plate appearances.  Even though Cecil is an obvious liability as a
>table-setter, on his team and in his role you've got to like those splits.
>That's where the 133 RBIs came from as much as anything.  No, the scoring
>position numbers aren't as good as those of some other players, but when
>you hit the ball in the seats you don't much care what bases the guys
>scoring in front of you came from-- and Cecil's hitting them with men on
>at a significantly higher rate than with the bases empty. 

>Through 1991 for his career those numbers are .275/.374/.548 ROB versus 
>.249/.319/.508 bases empty, and the trend appears to be continuing again
>this year.  If Cecil is eating up outs and killing potential rallies, at
>least he doesn't appear to be doing it excessively so with men on (not
>with that .374 OBP).  I can certainly live with that bases empty/men on 
>trade-off.

OK.  Now, RBI power is basically SLG, so let's focus on that.  (With big
bats, a lot of those extra times on base are semi-intentional and
intentional walks with runners on.)  Now, if his lifetime splits are 
a diff. of 40 points, that's not all that huge.  For one thing, the *league*
improved by 22 points with men on last year.  (A fluke, imho; it was 11
in 90, 12 in 89, 18 in 88, 5 in 87.  12 seems like a good number.)
So that leaves 28 points of difference.

And < 2000 PA.  Now, SLG isn't a Bernouilli variable, so we can't 
compute variance th usual way.  I'd say the variance is *bigger* than 
with a binary var. (right, Dr. Dave?), meaning that we can use .25/n
as a lower bound.  For a s.d. somewhere around .018.  

Meaning the difference isn't significant by a long shot if we do a 
two-sample T-test.

>Instead of telling us how much better other players would be doing than 
>Fielder based on simulations, how about telling us when Fielder's going to 
>start performing as the simulations expect?  Three years in a row and it's 
>not happened yet...

What simulations are those?  Looks to me like his numbers are well within
range of random fluctuation.

Roger
From: genetic+@pitt.edu (Tate N Smith)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
Subject: Re: Re: Emotional Attachment to Teams
Date: 1 Sep 92 19:02:53 GMT
Organization: University of Pittsburgh

In article <10010674@hpfcso.FC.HP.COM> mjs@hpfcso.FC.HP.COM (Marc Sabatella) writes:
>In article <1992Aug13.192643.801973@locus.com>, aardvark@locus.com (Warren Usui) writes:
>
>>For example, let's say you are a New York Met fan.  You just heard it
>>was announced that the entire New York Met team was traded for the
>>entire Boston Red Sox team.  If you were going to a game that day,
>>would you root for the ex-Boston guys just because they were wearing
>>Met uniforms?
>
>This is not as hypothetical as it seems, as any A's fan the days of Charlie
>Finley's fire sales and the mass exodus of free agents around 1976 could tell

I can go one better.  This actually *did* happen to me, though not in the
context of baseball.

I used to be a big fan of the Washington Diplomats of the North American
Soccer League (NASL, what an acronym).  They were a very exciting team to
watch just then, led by Dutch demigod Johann Cruyff.  They were the upstart
newcomers challenging the established dominance of the New York Cosmos and
their succession of European has-beens (Beckenbauer, Chinaglia, etc.).

And then, in the off-season, the whole team moved to somewhere else (who care
where?) and a *new* team was obtained, given the same name and uniforms, and
told to play in the same stadium.  By accident, one player from the previous
year managed to remain a Dip.

I stopped following American soccer about then.


-- 
      David M. Tate      | From my dugout sleep I fell into the Game
 dtate@unix.cis.pitt.edu | And I crouched in the circle while my insides froze
 Randall 'Chico' Jarrell | One out from death, one hit from dreamt-of glory
"Death of a Pinch Hitter"| I woke to 'Strike One!' and the nightmare sliders...
From: sieferme@milton.u.washington.edu (Eric Sieferman)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
Subject: Re: Major Award Votes
Date: 4 Sep 92 17:21:18 GMT
Organization: University of Washington, Seattle

In article <5442@blue.cis.pitt.edu.UUCP> genetic+@pitt.edu (Dr. Dave) writes:
>Here's Dr. Dave's all-miserable teams for the year so far.  To be eligible, a
>player must have either 250 plate appearances or 50 starts.
>
>American League:
>
>	1B	Pete O'Brien		.639 OPS, 268 outs in 110 games!

Thanks for noticing.  Despite my hesitancy to rely on statistics,
this time they DON'T lie.  What's sad is that Pop-Up Pete is so
bad it is unlikely that the expansion teams will draft him, so
the M's will be stuck with his salary next year.  Ugh.

Sometimes I wish that fans could sue players for professional
malpractice.


-- 
| Eric Sieferman            |    sieferme@u.washington.edu          |
| U. of W., M.C.I.S.        |    (206) 685-3104                     |
From: zelek@remus.rutgers.edu (Grey Wolf)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
Subject: Re: Boggs Toronto bound?
Date: 27 Aug 92 19:01:47 GMT
Organization: Rutgers University

lws@sparc1.ee.ncku.edu.tw (WenHsiang Lin) writes:


>   Boggs cannot hit anymore outside Fenway Park. I do think the Great
>Green Wall has been helping him much for his BA. In addition, Boggs
>is not an ideal leadoff hitter, although he always has good OBP. He
>is too slow to bat ahead Alomar, who may be a better candidate for
>the leadoff job.

   He is slow, yes.  But you want to know something?  As of the games of 
August 11th, Boggs is hitting around .236 AT Fenway and .307 on the road.
Know something?  Boggs usually hit around .305-.310 on the road and .340-.360
at Fenway.  Usually.  Know why the change?  The 500 club addition built onto
Fenway behind home plate two seasons ago.  
   If Boggs gets traded, look for him to hit about .310-.320.  He isn't
declining on his own just yet.

Chris [zelek@aramis.rutgers.edu]
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
From: mard@quads.uchicago.edu (Adrian N. Marden)
Subject: Re: DAVID CONE TO BLUE JAYS
Reply-To: mard@midway.uchicago.edu
Organization: University of Chicago Computing Organizations
Date: Thu, 27 Aug 1992 19:41:08 GMT

In article <1992Aug27.165952.7055@leland.Stanford.EDU> claudius@leland.Stanford.EDU (Nelson Lu) writes:
>In article <1992Aug27.161858.25284@epas.toronto.edu> binkley@epas.utoronto.ca (P. Binkley) writes:
>>
>>I assume that should be "It's NOW official", cuz it is.  My guess is
>>the player to be named is Sprague, and he'll go as soon as the Jays
>>make arrangements for another backup catcher.  He has started the last
>>two games (one at first and one catching).
>>
>>Things look a lot better for the Jays than they did this time
>>yesterday.
>>
>>Where is Cone in his contract?  Must be in his last year: that's the
>>only kind of pitcher the Jays ever trade for ;-)
>
>Cone is a free agent.
>
>I don't think it's a particular good deal if the Jays can't sign Cone.  From
>the Mets standpoint, they get two good third basemen, so I suppose this means
>they won't sign Magadan.

	Excepting, of course, the fact that the Jays need a guy like Cone to 
win it all this year...
	Woof: which they won't, since the Braves will take them in 4 games.


-- 
*	Adrian "Nick" Marden  	    *	"The A's have Dennis Eckersley-	      *
*	mard@quads.uchicago.edu     *	he doesn't blow anyone!"	      *
*	home:(312)-684-1913	    *			-Steve Stone	      *
*	work(?):(312)-702-7269	    *					      *
From: mjs@hpfcso.FC.HP.COM (Marc Sabatella)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
Subject: Re: Origin of "Did he (they) win?"
Date: 25 Aug 92 17:13:02 GMT
Organization: Hewlett-Packard, Fort Collins, CO, USA

In rec.sport.baseball, kettler@pierre.mit.edu (KETTLER, THOMAS R.) writes:

> In article <1992Aug19.191431.9455@hpcvaac.cv.hp.com>, paula@koufax.cv.hp.com (Paul Andresen)      writes...
> > 
> >It may be apocryphal, but supposedly when Don Drysdale was once informed that
> >Koufax had pitched a no-hitter his first question was "Did he win?"
> 
> I remember a similar expression differently. It was about the Amazin' Mets of 
> 1962. In one game they scored something like 17 runs. When a fan was told about 
> the number of runs they score, he asked "Did they win?" At least, I remember 
> seeing this in a Baseball Digest.

I heard this story somewhat differently - I think it was regarding a no-hitter,
but I don't think it was Koufax.

A related story is the time three Brooklyn Dodgers ended up on third base at
the same time at the end of a somewhat bizarre play.  The third baseman tagged
all three, not sure who was entitled to the bag; then the umpire helped sort
out who was out and who was safe.  The next day, a cabbie picks up a fan
leaving the game early (I guess this happened even in Brooklyn :-), and asks
him "how are the Dodger's doing"; the fan says "they're down by two in the
bottom of the seventh, but they've got three men on base".  To which the cabbie
replies, "Which base?"

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Marc "Dave" Sabatella		Disclaimer: OPS is not the One True Statistic
marc@hpmonk.fc.hp.com		that makes all others obsolete
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Mmmm - po-ta-to chips!" - John Stuart Mill
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
From: mtocci@bolzano.WPI.EDU (Michael David Tocci)
Subject: needed stats
Originator: mtocci@bolzano.WPI.EDU
Organization: Worcester Polytechnic Institute
Date: Thu, 3 Sep 1992 19:54:52 GMT


We have a rotisserie league going and we have lost the NL stats for 
the week ending August 3.  We use the USA Today stats which would have
come out on August 5.  I need the following stats for the following players.
Runs, hits, HR's, RBI's, BB's, steals for
Bobby Bonilla
Brett Butler
Dante Bichette
Kevin Mitchell

Also, I need the stats for Norm Charlton from the Aug. 26 USA Today.
I need wins, losses, saves, K's, BB's.  
I appreciate it if anyone could help.   

Please e-mail to my acccount(mtocci@wpi.wpi.edu)




					       Thanks,  Mike Tocci
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
From: tedward@cs.cornell.edu (Edward [Ted] Fischer)
Subject: Grand Slams
Organization: Cornell Univ. CS Dept, Ithaca NY 14853
Date: Wed, 26 Aug 1992 19:52:02 GMT


You probably know that the Red Sox lead the majors with 7 grand slams
this season (at least three of them by low-power rookies, as I know
Zupcic has two and Valentin has one).  Does this seem strange to you?
I claim that it is symptomatic of their offensive problems this year.

How, you ask, can grand slams be symptomatic of offensive *problems*?
Well, the Red Sox don't have much speed, have a low team BA, and
haven't gotten very many XB hits this year.  A major part of their
offense involves the walk, but they don't have enough power to make
those walks pay off.  As a result, I would expect that the Red Sox
load the bases *far* more often than most teams.  Leading to a couple
more grand slams than usual.

Okay, so it's a weak explanation.  But it's the best I can come up with.

Though <cheery thought> the Sox are finally on pace to get more than
600 runs for the season!  They are improving!  Valentin, Vaughn, and
Wedge have helped?

BTW normally about 1:50 PA come with the bases loaded.  With 3317 HR
in 1990, you might expect ~66 grand slams in the majors per year, or
2-3 per team per year.  Anybody know whether this figure is low, high,
or right on target?

Cheers,
-Valentine
-- 
Clemens may not win his 4th CY, but he still rules!	tedward@cs.cornell.edu
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
From: tedward@cs.cornell.edu (Edward [Ted] Fischer)
Subject: Re: Oakland and Texas... I scratch my head....
Organization: Cornell Univ. CS Dept, Ithaca NY 14853
Date: Wed, 2 Sep 1992 06:07:50 GMT

In article <55955@olivea.atc.olivetti.com> rsmith@strobe.ATC.Olivetti.Com (Russ Smith) writes:
>
>Except that Sierra makes 4.2 million this year which is about what Jose
>is getting, maybe more, and Sierra will want at least 25 mill for 5 years
>which is more than Jose gets, and Sierra may want 30 mill.

Actually, Sierra is listed at $5 million in the only source I have.  I
don't remember what Canseco makes, but I think it is less than that.
I'd be willing to bet that Sierra goes for $30 million/5 years or more.

Cheers,
-Valentine
-- 
Clemens may not win his 4th CY, but he still rules!	tedward@cs.cornell.edu
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
From: stanm@comm.mot.com (Stan Macasieb)
Subject: Re: CUBS' MADDUX EASY CHOICE FOR CY
Reply-To: stanm@comm.mot.com
Organization: Motorola
Date: Tue, 1 Sep 1992 13:37:35 GMT


In article 715320082@silver, bacarlso@silver.ucs.indiana.edu (Brad Carlson) writes:
>Any bozo who thinks that Tom Glavine is more deserving of the NL Cy Young
>award than Greg Maddux must be smoking crack. ... Morgan and 
>Maddux together form the best 1-2 punch of any team in baseball. 
>Incidentally, the Cubs have won 11 of their last 14 and IMHO will overtake
>the Expos and Pirates for the NL East crown before season's end.


Brad must've just watched the 2-0 shutout of the Dogers last night when these
ill-advised comments were made regarding the Cubs' chances of winning the 
NLEast flag.

As far as Mad Dog goes, I surely hope the sportswriters get their heads out
of the sand and see the type of job Maddux has done overall this season
with the lack of offensive support the Cubs have provided. The only reason
I could see Glavine winning Cy Young honors this year is W-L record and 
that Glavine is on a winning team. The Welch-Stewart dilemma a few years
ago is enough reason for me to suspect that the writers will overlook
the better performances for the guy with more wins.

The addition of Mike Morgan was a most shrewd move by Larry Himes because
he had done his homework on Morgan, as opposed to Frey and Grenesko's 
impulsive acquisitions of Danny Jackson and Dave Smith. The results for
the Cubs have been as plain as day.

As for the Cubs overtaking the Buckos and the Folding Expos, I won't hold my
breath. It's Sept 1 and we're 7 games out with six games each against these 
two clubs. Our chances of beating the Buckos are better than beating the
Expos so far this year, and the Expos are running hot right now. The Cubs
definitely need to figure out Les Expos if they intend on playing the 2nd
week of October, 1992.

******************************************************************************
--Stan Macasieb (stanm@comm.mot.com)              |  Give Maddux the money,
--Motorola, Land Mobile Products Sector           |   Stan Cook!
--Schaumburg, IL (just another suburb of Chicago) |  
--------------------------------------------------|
~~The opinion expressed in this post is not       |  "You got a problem
~~necessarily those of this corporation.          |   with that?" 
~~Copyright 1992, all rights reserved.            |   -- Roger Clemens
******************************************************************************

Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
From: miked@pterodactyl.cis.ohio-state.edu (Michael Davey)
Subject: Re: Baseball and Billions
Organization: The Ohio State University Dept. of Computer and Info. Science
Distribution: usa
Date: Thu, 27 Aug 1992 19:25:32 GMT

In article <1992Aug27.182904.6738@adobe.com> snichols@adobe.com (Sherri Nichols) writes:

>I agree that there is a current trend to try and marry some of the good
>features of the old parks with the good features of the new parks.  Why do
>you think that trend has come about?  Do you think that maybe it's because
>the owners think that more people will come to an aesthetically pleasing
>park?  Sounds like the money of the fans having an impact.

>The point several of us have been making, that you seem to be missing, is
>that the owners *do* weigh how things will affect the fans, because it's
>the fans who *pay* for the thing, and if they cease to do so, the owners
>don't make any money.  
	It seems were stuck in a "which came first, the chicken or the egg?"
argument. I do not deny that the owners do weigh how things will affect the 
fans. My position is that I don't think that how much money the fans
will spend after a given change should be the only factor going in to 
the decision making process. What's so unreasonable about that? The owners
care about the fans because of the money the fans spend, not because they
care what the fans think or feel about a particular policy they've 
implemented. That the point. I do not think that money should be the only
decision making catalyst, even if I know that realistically, money talks.


>Is "aesthetically correct" anything like "politically correct"?
	My God, thats the joke! Thats why there is a HA HA after it.
So much for trying to defuse the situation.


>If you think a lock-out is the way to resolve the issues and eliminate
>strikes, I think you need to do some more reading about the issue.  Might I
>suggest a few books about the history of baseball and labor negotiations?
>_The Imperfect Diamond_, by Lee Lowenfish, and _A Whole Different Ball
>Game_, by Marvin Miller, are good places to start.
	How can you think I support a lock out? I don't uderstand why you think
that?

>What kind of restructuring is needed?
	It seems that question should be included under a different topic.

 Michael J. Davey                          "I believe in the small of a women's
 The Ohio State University                  back, the hangin' curve ball, high
 Computer and Information Science Dept.     fiber, (and) good scotch..."
Organization: Penn State University
Date: Wed, 26 Aug 1992 07:14:47 EDT
From: <KRB104@psuvm.psu.edu>
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
Subject: Sutcliff has big-time guts!!!!!

   Rick Sutcliff of the O's pitched a 4 hitter last night through 8 innings
breaking the O's three game losing streak.  The admirable thing about it was
that Sutcliff's mother died of cancer on Sunday!!!!  As a big-time O's fan,
I have appreciated Sutcliff's grit all season, but now my admiration for him
has shot up 200%.  When told by manager Johnny Oates that he didn't have to
pitch yesterday (they had called up Anthony Telford from Rochester to pitch),
Sutcliff declined and went out and pitched a perfect game through 4 innings.
You have to admire players like that, especially when you have players who
use ingrown toenails as excuses not to play.  Oates said that Sutcliff only
said one word to him all night, when Oates came out in the 8th to  check on
Sutcliff, Oates said, "Have you had enough", and Sutcliff replied, "Yup".
It is good to see that not all ballplayers are pampered babies!!!
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
From: kettler@mitme5.mit.edu (KETTLER, THOMAS R.)
Subject: Re: Jose Canseco to Texas...
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.4-b1  
Organization: MIT Lab for Nuclear Science
Date: Tue, 1 Sep 1992 17:23:00 GMT

In article <1992Sep1.133128.16466@udel.edu>, tmavor@earthview.cms.udel.edu               writes...
> 
>I'm not too sure about this.  As ESPN pointed, Sierra is out for 7-10 days with
>the chicken pox.  McGwire is still out.  The A's seem to be lacking a power hitter
>for the next week or so.  If Sierra is healthy and able to play NOW, then I would
>agree with this trade as helping NOW.  I do think this trade will help come
>playoff time. 
> 
>But (there always is!) the A's had things going their way, and the Twins/White Sox
>where fading away.  If Sierra is out, and the A's do not have the punch in the
>middle of the lineup, it could let the others close in during that time.  It's
>great to look forward towards the playoffs, but you have to get there first.
>I think this trade puts that in question, at least for now.
> 
One aspect which hasn't been talked about yet is the expansion draft and how 
this trade affects it. Canseco would necessarily been protected by the A's but 
they now receive two free agents who don't need to be protected and one Bobby 
Witt whom I wouldn't protect. This does give the A's one extra space to protect 
a Dressendorfer or a Van Poppel. Although I would never use this as a reason to 
make a trade, this does generate that possibility.

As for the numerous number of free agents on the A's staff, I don't suspect 
that you will see many teams clamoring for most of them. After all, I don't 
think the money is there in almost all of the markets, especially since the 
next national TV contracts will be hundreds of millions less than the combined 
CBS-ESPN contracts now give to the teams. Also, many teams have often borrowed 
from banks against the money from the TV contracts to make payrolls. In 
addition many teams now have owners who keep tight reins on salaries. So the 
superstars may make millions but you will also see a greater number of cheap 
players on rosters while the middle players will likely be released and be 
forced to accept minor league contracts to play like last year or retire.

					Sincerely yours,

					Thomas R. Kettler "Expos Fanatic"
From: pcaster@mizar.usc.edu (Dodger)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
Subject: Pirates Lose Protest
Date: 28 Aug 1992 17:57:42 -0700
Organization: University of Southern California, Los Angeles, CA
NNTP-Posting-Host: mizar.usc.edu

The Pirates protest of their loss to the Dodgers was denied
by the Commissioner's Office.  Jim Leyland said he wasn't
surprised.
				BleedsDodgerBlue

Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
From: claudius@leland.Stanford.EDU (Nelson Lu)
Subject: Re: roy NL
Organization: DSG, Stanford University, CA 94305, USA
Distribution: na
Date: Wed, 2 Sep 92 23:21:56 GMT

In article <1992Sep2.170328.14290@meaddata.com> daves@meaddata.com (Dave Spencer) writes:

>   Huh???  There is no possible way excluding death, that the writers
>   will give the NL ROY to anyone other than Mr. Eric Karros. An
>   average pitcher like Williams can even compare to the stats Karros
>   has put up with the hapless Dodgers. Williams may have a shot at
>   the Rookie Pitcher's award, but the ROY, that would be a crime!

If Karros does get the ROY it would be a crime (not to say that it won't
happen; in fact, it has a good chance of happening).  Both Reggie Sanders and
Moises Alou have contributed more than he has.

===============================================================================
GO CALIFORNIA ANGELS!
===============================================================================
Nelson Lu (claudius@leland.stanford.edu)
From: desmondw@merrimack.edu
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
Subject: Reardon to Braves
Date: 31 Aug 92 15:35:26 GMT
Organization: Merrimack College, No. Andover, MA, USA

     I suppose you've all heard about Jeff Reardon going to the Braves
for 2 players to be named later. This deal was terrible for the Sox.
They probably weren't going to sign Jeff anyway but they don't even
care who they get obviously. They should have gotten at least one starter.
And who is gonna take over the duty as the closer? Harris? Yuk! Look for
the Sox to be in the celler next year too now. You can't win without a
closer. Also look for Clemens to rack up the complete games. Do you think
he's ganna trust one of the bums to save his wins? 
     I think the trade was a desperate attempt by Atlanta to counter Torontos
big trade. They know they're in for some trouble come World Series baby!
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball