HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: geb@cs.pitt.edu (Gordon Banks)
Newsgroups: alt.conspiracy
Subject: Re: Gritz - Mormon officials warn against his teachings
Date: 14 Dec 92 17:19:26 GMT
Reply-To: geb@cs.pitt.edu (Gordon Banks)
Organization: Univ. of Pittsburgh Computer Science

In article <1fv952INN8ok@hp-col.col.hp.com> reykja@col.hp.com (Reykja Sigurdsson) writes:

>AS much as I have read about the Mormons, there is no evidence that 
>they teach that White people are the true chosen people of God, tghe
>Israelites, nor do they teach that Jews are the spawn of Satan -- such
>as is taught by Identity. 
>
As a matter of fact, almost the opposite is true.  Mormons consider
themselves to be members of the house of Israel along with Jews
and consider the Jews to be kin.  They've been accused of being
too pro-Jewish, especially on matters regarding the state of Israel.


>The Mormon Church is correct to condemn Gritz and the whole Identity
>bunch. Hate *is* a moral issue. 

Actually, Gritz was not condemned, from what I understood, but
told that some of the ideas he was teaching were inconsistent
with Mormon ideas and to make sure he did not misrepresent what
he was saying as being anything more than his opinion.  So far
no action has been taken to eject him from the church, although
other Mormon survivalists apparently have been.

>And if I am not mistaken, the Doctrine and Covenants (I may be mistaken
>about this..) states that followers of LDS should respect and follow
>the laws of the government of the country in which they live. 

The D&C qualifies that with "provided they are constitutional" or
guarantee people in their rights.  Church policy in the former
communist countries has been to ignore that restriction in order
to survive.



-- 
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Gordon Banks  N3JXP      | "I have given you an argument; I am not obliged
geb@cadre.dsl.pitt.edu   |  to supply you with an understanding." -S.Johnson
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Xref: sparky alt.conspiracy:13292 talk.politics.misc:64838
Newsgroups: alt.conspiracy,talk.politics.misc
Subject: Re: Dr. Beter AUDIO LETTER #46 of 80
From: kmcvay@oneb.almanac.bc.ca (Ken Mcvay)
Date: Fri, 18 Dec 92 20:45:02 GMT
Organization: The Old Frog's Almanac

In article <2B30B6A3.8326@tct.com> chip@tct.com (Chip Salzenberg) writes:
>Wow.  This bizarreness exceeds anything I'd ever expected.

[expose of robotoids taking over Yankee gov't deleted]

>Yet Carter still lives...
>
>   ...OR DOES HE?

Beter lies! (Not about the "robotoids," they are certainly real, but
about where they _came_ from! Amazingly enough, they are actually produced
at the Disney works in Anaheim, California, where plans are well underway to
turn the entire continent into Disneyland NA, and run it all through
Washington, where nearly everyone has been replaced.)

Carter? Yes, contrary to Beter's raving, he's still alive, sitting out his
golden years in Anaheim, where he quietly runs a Mickey Mouse Red Hots
concession at Disneyland - he received it, along with 150,000 shares of
Disney stock, for agreeing to participate in the Robotoid program and keep
his mouth shut. His daughter is a rhinocerous, working nearby.

-- 
The Old Frog's Almanac - Public Access UseNet for Central Vancouver Island
     (604) 245-3205 (v32) (604) 245-4366 (2400x4) SCO XENIX 2.3.2 GT 
 Ladysmith, British Columbia, CANADA. Just south of Tupperware Central...  
                 Information is power - get connected
Newsgroups: alt.conspiracy,alt.activism
From: lion@netcom.com (carl loeber)
Subject: Re: Natural Rights
Keywords: America Enslaved
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services  (408 241-9760 guest) 
Date: Wed, 16 Dec 1992 02:07:52 GMT

snarfy@cruzio.santa-cruz.ca.us writes:
>   jurisdiction thereof , are citizens of the United States and of the state
>   wherein they reside....."

>    One might well wonder about the necessity of drafting  a  constitutional
>   amendment  to  tell  us  this, other than to let us know that the door to
>   slavery was being reopened.

I just learned the importance of this clause of the 14th Amendment.  In the 
north negros could be freemen, residents, but not citizens, in some states,
including Lincoln's own Illinois..   The 14th made them citizens of which
ever state in which they resided.
I think that Art. 4 Section 4 "the guarantee clause" should have prompted
Congress to enforce equal voting and political rights, for all citizens
including former slaves.


>   "....No  State  shall  make  or  enforce  any  law which shall abridge the
>   priveleges and immunities of citizens of the United States;..."

>   Note the possessive implication of the phrase  "of  the  United  States".
>   Citizens belong to the state. We are then the "property" of the state.

this part of the 14th gives the Bill of Rights active force in the states
if the Federal govt will effect it.  Civils righs may be called "priviledges
and immunities" because they exist only in relation to govt. and are therefore
not "natural" rights.  These may be rights to political action and trial by jury
for priviledges, and immunities covered by writ of Habeas Corpus, illegal searchand seazure.. et al.


>    It must be emphasised that a constitutional amendment , taken by  itself
>   is  not sufficient to extinguish even one of our God - given rights.  Nor
>   can the fourteenth amendment, by  itself  ,  actually  return  an  entire
>   nation  to  a  condition of slavery. As we've noted ,however, it did have
>   the effect of opening the "legal" door to  just  such  a  condition.   In
>   future  postings , we will see just how slavery came back under the guise
>   of "business as usual".

>   Jim Ostrowski

The Bill of Rights do not as I said deal with God given rights (natural
rights) but only define certain limits on the relation of the central
authority to the states and the people. (in my opinion)

The God given rights exist, and may be stated, but govt. or a constitution
does not, can not grant them.

Two interesting points.  I think from your analysis of the 13th AMend. -
how does this affect the "draft induction laws" which mandated military,
involuntary service?

and ,

the 14th by using the term "persons" instead of "citizens" allowed for later
decisions which empowered by corporation as a legal entity with quasi
"priviledges and immunities".  This may be said to come at the expense of
the power of citizens (natural persons) by the priniciple of crowding out
of space in the economy, the land, and the political process.


Carl

San Jose

pls Email responses.
From: f_gautjw@ccsvax.sfasu.edu
Newsgroups: alt.conspiracy
Subject: Re: The Nixon Tapes - A New Chapter
Date: 17 Dec 92 15:59:02 CST
Followup-To: alt.conspiracy
Organization: Stephen F. Austin State University

In article <BzF5IL.Ht4@acsu.buffalo.edu>, v140pxgt@ubvmsd.cc.buffalo.edu (Daniel B Case) writes:
> In article <1992Dec16.231816.4090@oracle.us.oracle.com>, rchilder@us.oracle.com (Richard Childers) writes...> 
>> 
>>When Wallace was shot by his would-be assassin, apparently in the hours
>>just after the fact, the possibility was raised that someone - specifically,
>>the covert operator E. Howard Hunt - should slip into this person's house -
>>which was filled with politically extremist materials - and replace it all
>>with McGovern materials.
>>
> 
> Charles Colson asked Hunt to do it-within an hour of the assassination attempt.
> How *did* he know where Bremer's apartment was.
> 
A "clue" about the quick reaction time might be found in noting that
more bullets were fired at Wallace than Bremer's gun held.

-Joe Gaut
From: v140pxgt@ubvmsd.cc.buffalo.edu (Daniel B Case)
Newsgroups: alt.conspiracy
Subject: Re: The Nixon Tapes - A New Chapter
Summary: tricky dick was a real political slime
Keywords: covert, break-in, hunt, cbc, foia, libertarian, bush, reagan, drugs
Date: 17 Dec 92 19:45:00 GMT
Followup-To: alt.conspiracy
Organization: University at Buffalo
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41

In article <1992Dec16.231816.4090@oracle.us.oracle.com>, rchilder@us.oracle.com (Richard Childers) writes...> 
>I was listening to CBC - Canadian Broadcasting Corporation - the other
>day, their excellent Sunday morning news and events program, called, not
>too surprisingly, _Sunday Morning_, and heard an interesting snippet.
> 
>Seems that, through a FOIA request, someone has discovered another one
>of Tricky Dick's underhanded plots. This one wasn't actually implemented,
>but it _was_ discussed at considerable length ... and recorded.
> 
>When Wallace was shot by his would-be assassin, apparently in the hours
>just after the fact, the possibility was raised that someone - specifically,
>the covert operator E. Howard Hunt - should slip into this person's house -
>which was filled with politically extremist materials - and replace it all
>with McGovern materials.
>

Charles Colson asked Hunt to do it-within an hour of the assassination attempt.
How *did* he know where Bremer's apartment was.


>Why this was not carried out, I am unsure. But with this kind of thinking
>in the White House, it seems to raise the probability of other misbehavior
>and suggests that every legal decision that occurred during the Nixon years
>should have been re-examined for covert influences.
> 
>Even moreso, under the Reagan and Bush years, IMHO. For instance, the SFPD
>raided the Libertarian HQ and charged everyone there with selling drugs, in
>the early 1980s. Was this a setup ? With this kind of evidence, one has to
>inquire ...
> 
>The person whom acquired this information, and whom was interviewed, was a
>gentleman by the name of Seymour Hirsch.

Seymour Hersh is a very well-known investigative journalist at the New York 
Times-it was he who broke the story of the My Lai massacre, a year after it 
happened. He's also written books about the downing of KAL 007 and Israel's atom
bomb project.
From: lpb@florida.swdc.stratus.com (Len Bucuvalas)
Newsgroups: alt.conspiracy
Subject: Re: Dr. Beter: Prophet of Doom!!!
Date: 14 Dec 92 23:26:24 GMT

In article <sf_dKF200iV0I45FJT@andrew.cmu.edu> jg4j+@andrew.cmu.edu (Joshua Galiotto) writes:
>
>Well okay, I admit the the title's a bit melodramatic- but hey, I AM
>talking about Dr. Beter aint I?!
>
>Here's are questions: is Dr. Beter (of Audio Letter fame, of course)
>still alive? And if so, what's the guy got to say for himself now that

No...he died, I think, in 1984.

>history has turned out so drastically different than he and his
>"oh-so-knowledgable" sources had forecasted? I hope he's still alive.
>I'd be interested in hearing his half-assed explanation of things (not
>to mention rubbing a bit of history in his face.)
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^???

Pk...so please point out for us all where his history is wrong.
Please include references so we can back up your stements
ourselves?

>
>
>Until next post, God willing, this is Dr. Galiotto..
>
>...waitaminnit! I'm not a doctor!...
>
>
>Beware the particle beam cannons of the moon! And swim not in America's
>ponds, lest ye klunk your head off a Soviet nuclear warhead! 

Yo Dude! I already glow in the dark due to nuke contamination of
the food chain!

Dr. Len ;^)

--
*@*@*@*@*@*@*@*@*@*@*@*@*@*@*@*@*@*@*@*@*@*@*@*@*@*@*@*@*@*@*@*@*@*@*@*
The accountability of government has gone to the point where the very
use of the law is the instrument of illegality.
		-- Ralph Nader @ Harvard Law School, 1/15/92
Newsgroups: alt.conspiracy
From: b645zaw@utarlg.uta.edu (General Boycott)
Subject: Morton Downey grilling Lloyd Bentsen on Talk Radio
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41    
Keywords:  match any
Organization: The University of Texas at Arlington
Date: Tue, 15 Dec 1992 15:50:00 GMT

For those fond of the smell of roast pork...

You might want to try to catch some of the Morton Downey Show
this week (or call in at 1-800-BUG-MORT, WRC out of DC).

There's a rather amusing interview going on now (0950 CST, 15th) with 
a man named Peter Brewton(?) who has a book _The Mafia, CIA & George Bush_.

A lot of names are being dropped as possibly connected to Bentsen,
the S&L debacle, Bentsen's son, CIA, New Orleans Mafia, George Bush,
The Houstonian Hotel, etc. etc. ad nauseum...


-= round and round it goes =-
Xref: sparky alt.conspiracy:13052 alt.revisionism:844
From: rwd4f@poe.acc.Virginia.EDU (Rob Dobson)
Subject: Re: Justice conspiracy, anyone?
Organization: University of Virginia
Date: Sat, 19 Dec 1992 01:27:14 GMT

In article <geturner.724108659@aer.com> geturner@aer.com (George Turner) writes:
>The real crime of "Iran-Contra" was the passage of the Boland Amendment.

HORSESHIT. Congress is specifically granted the power to allocate money
by the United States Constitution. Thus, an amendment which specifies
a way in which government money may not be used is perfectly within
the constitutional bounds of congress.

Compare this to mining the harbors of Nicaragua, which is NOT within 
the president's powers under the constitution, and was also a violation
of international law. How is mining Nicaragua's harbors any different
than bombing a US Embassy? Not to justify embassy bombing, just pointing
out that the CIA could, in many ways, be considered a terrorist organization.
From: busta@vicki.enet.dec.com
Newsgroups: alt.conspiracy,ba.politics,ca.politics
Subject: Re: The Nixon Tapes - A New Chapter
Keywords: Nixon, Tricky Dick
Date: 17 Dec 92 12:09:53 GMT
Organization: Digital Equipment Corporation


In article <1992Dec16.231816.4090@oracle.us.oracle.com>, rchilder@us.oracle.com (Richard Childers) writes...
> 
>I was listening to CBC - Canadian Broadcasting Corporation - the other
>day, their excellent Sunday morning news and events program, called, not
>too surprisingly, _Sunday Morning_, and heard an interesting snippet.
> 
>Seems that, through a FOIA request, someone has discovered another one
>of Tricky Dick's underhanded plots. This one wasn't actually implemented,
>but it _was_ discussed at considerable length ... and recorded.
> 
>When Wallace was shot by his would-be assassin, apparently in the hours
>just after the fact, the possibility was raised that someone - specifically,
>the covert operator E. Howard Hunt - should slip into this person's house -
>which was filled with politically extremist materials - and replace it all
>with McGovern materials.


  Yeah, heard all this on the news a couple of months ago here outside of
 Boston.


> 
>Why this was not carried out, I am unsure. 



  According to what I read/heard, the attempt to do so was carried out, it
 didn't go down as Nixon and his boys planned because by the time Hunt got
 to Bremers' apartment, the FBI/SS had already sealed it off.......



>But with this kind of thinking
>in the White House, it seems to raise the probability of other misbehavior
>and suggests that every legal decision that occurred during the Nixon years
>should have been re-examined for covert influences.



  Including the assassination of JFK. I'm not going to say he was involved
 but I believe he had inside information as to the `who did what when' of it
 all. The are more than a few places on the so-called `Watergate' tapes where
 Tricky Dick and his boys are discussing `not wanting to get into/bring up all
 that Bay of Pigs business' or their little house of cards might come tumbling
 down. By this time, 1972/3, there was really nothing secret about the Bay of
 Pigs (operations Mongoose/Zapata), so what is it they were really referring to?


>=====
>-- richard childers		rchilder@us.oracle.com		1 415 506 2411
>         oracle data center  --  unix systems & network administration
>                    Klein flask for rent. Inquire within.


<><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>

Paul R. Busta	Busta@vicki.enet.dec.com                       Salem,N.H.  
		--or-- ...!decwrl!vicki.enet.dec.com!busta    603-894-3962
		--or-- busta%vicki.enet@decwrl.dec.com

         "One only sees what one observes, and one observes only 
              those things which are already in the mind."
From: ksjwr@acad3.alaska.edu (REDELSS JOHN W)
Subject: Apology for Chip Berlet
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41.UAC
Organization: University of Alaska - Fairbanks
Date: Sat, 19 Dec 1992 07:18:00 GMT

I'm sorry, Chip.  Please forgive me.  I feel now that I got a little carried
away in my post implying you might have a hidden agenda in smearing Bo
Gritz.  Some of what I said would be very difficult for me to prove.

Now, I have apologized.  Please post to the net the biographical information
which you promised you would provide if I apologized. 

Who are you?  Why are you so angry with Bo Gritz?
From: jack@dcs.glasgow.ac.uk (Jack Campin)
Newsgroups: alt.conspiracy
Subject: Re: Scientists & inventions
Date: 14 Dec 92 18:31:04 GMT
Reply-To: jack@dcs.glasgow.ac.uk (Jack Campin)
Followup-To: alt.folklore.urban
Organization: COMANDOS Project, Glesga Yoonie

whatis@gnu.ai.mit.edu (Steve Boswell) wrote:
> What are some famous scientists/inventions that disappeared without a
> trace and without an explanation?

The Italian nuclear physicist Ettore Majorana in 1938.  There's a book
about the case by the late Leonardo Sciascia, published in English by
Carcanet as "The Mystery of Majorana".  The theory Sciascia seems to favour
is that Majorana saw what his work might be leading to and went into a
monastery under a false identity for the rest of his life rather than be
part of it.


> I seem to remember hearing about someone who invented a simple way to
> increase gas efficiency dramatically, and he was going to meet some people
> about it when he disappeared.  (Real helpful info, I know.)

This is a common urban legend.  Since there is a massive amount of
thermodynamics saying that dramatic changes to heat engine efficiency
aren't possible, it is extremely improbable.  Anyone who had found a way to
repeal the laws of thermodynamics would be able to apply it to many other
things besides petrol engines; and a modicum of common sense would suggest
publishing the basic result as a scientific paper first while reserving the
application for a patent.

What keeps urban legends like this alive is the popular ignorance of the
interconnectedness of science and technology.  Most people just don't see
bicycle pumps, refrigerators, weather systems and gasoline engines as
falling under the same general abstraction and accordingly think that each
is a separate phenomenon with its own autonomous laws.  If people realized
that the weather forecasts they use every day or the design of wings to
lift planes off the ground depended on a unifying theory that ruled out
magic gas-saving gadgets, they might be bit more skeptical about the
latter.

-- 
--  Jack Campin    room G092, Computing Science Department, Glasgow University,
17 Lilybank Gardens, Glasgow G12 8RZ, Scotland   TEL: 041 339 8855 x6854 (work)
INTERNET: jack@dcs.glasgow.ac.uk or via nsfnet-relay.ac.uk    FAX: 041 330 4913
BANG!net: via mcsun and uknet     BITNET: via UKACRL    UUCP: jack@glasgow.uucp
From: f_gautjw@ccsvax.sfasu.edu
Newsgroups: alt.conspiracy
Subject: Somalia, Sovereignty, and New World Order
Date: 18 Dec 92 17:02:54 GMT
Organization: Stephen F. Austin State University


Fletcher L. Prouty, in his new book "JFK. The CIA, Vietnam and the Plot to
Assassinate John F. Kennedy, makes the following statement:

	Nations, and nationalism, survive because of the existence of
the fragile structure called sovereignty.  True sovereignty must be
absolute.  If sovereignty is not recognized by the entire family of
nations--large and small, rich and poor, developed and underdeveloped--
nationalism will crumble, and the larger nations will devour smaller
ones before the last act, when those left will begin to devour each
other, like scorpions in a bottle.
	...
	In today's matrix of nations, the power elite controllers are
attempting to structure something to take the place of nationalism and
sovereignty in a "New World Order."
	...The CIA has been the leading edge of this change....

					From JFK
--------

	Occupied Somalia is but another step down this road to disaster.
The British Empire was going to give us a new world order modeled on
the thoughts of Cecil Rhodes and his crowd.  Then the Third Reich 
proposed its version of a new world order.  Is it the turn of the US
today to ignore sovereignty--its own and others--and go down that same
inglorious path?  Secretary of State Lawrence Eagleburger calls for
war crime trials for Serbian leaders...who may well be the most
viscious of the viscious.  But his hypocrisy is overwhelming when
one considers that sanctions against former Yugoslavia were delayed
for months while Eagleburger and others connected with Kissinger and
Associates wrapped up their business interests in the region.  What's
the name of the game?  Help create the problem, stir the pot, then
go solve the problem with blood and blue helmets?

-Joe Gaut
Xref: sparky alt.conspiracy:13196 alt.activism:19598
From: eidetics@nic.cerf.net (Eidetics Int'l)
Newsgroups: alt.conspiracy,alt.activism
Subject: Re: An open letter to Chip Berlet
Date: 15 Dec 92 15:56:18 GMT
Organization: CERFnet
NNTP-Posting-Host: nic.cerf.net

cberlet@igc.apc.org (NLG Civil Liberties Committee) writes:
>Dear Jon Volkoff:
>   Dr. Beter's messages are a deranged pastiche of Birch Society conspiracy
>theory, LaRouchian lunacy, nodules of Gary North, a soupcon of Sutton and
>his vast banking conspiracy, a triptich of Trilateral testosterone madness
>syndrome (TMS), all glued together with a powerful paranoid pulsating
>personal ego the vastness of which could only be measured in terms usually
>reserved for cosmic events.
>   Thank you for asking my opini, which, I suspect, you knew would be
>not positive.
>-Chip Berlet

You're welcome.  Although I must admit I was hoping for something a little more
substantial, I'll take what I can get.

Jon Volkoff
Xref: sparky alt.conspiracy:13213 talk.politics.misc:64434
From: dsh@eceyv.ncsu.edu (Doug Holtsinger)
Subject: Re: EXTRATERRESTRIAL OBSERVERS' Report to the Galactic Council
Organization: North Carolina State University
Date: Sat, 12 Dec 1992 19:24:20 GMT

In article <1992Dec9.221953.21845@mont.cs.missouri.edu> 
jad@Turing.ORG (John DiNardo) writes:

> This planet Earth appears to be absolutely unique in the galaxy.
> While the human beings who inhabit it are similar to human beings
> elsewhere in the universe, they differ from all others in that their
> entire existence is dedicated to killing -- that is, the murder of
> each other and of every other form of life upon the planet. 

Why would these aliens decide to explore the universe if 
they weren't going to set out to conquer or exploit parts 
of it?  Why should we expect other beings to have purely 
altruistic motivations for exploring the universe?