From: kbanner@ccat.sas.upenn.edu (Kenneth J. Banner)
Newsgroups: alt.folklore.ghost-stories
Subject: The Death Car and the Real Story
Date: 7 Nov 92 16:50:33 GMT
Distribution: alt.folklore.ghost-stories
Organization: School of Arts and Sciences, UPENN

Although, I appreciate the information on the Death Car
stories, I think Rob DeMillo is assuming too much:

       1) Does the fact that one can trace "Death Car" stories
back to the 1938 incident mean that all occurrences of this
theme found anywhere must therefore be linked to that origin? 
Surely the discipline of Folklore has moved beyond such
simplistic explanations hasn't it?  (Or...are we still
encountering the ghosts of geographical distribution and the
quest for "ultimate" origins?)
       2)  Even if one can trace a cultural origin for "all"
of the stories does that mean that none of the stories have a
basis in experience?  In Folklorist David Hufford's book, _The
Terror that Comes in the Night:  An Experience-Centered Study
of Supernatural Assault Traditions_  (Univ. of Penn Press,
1982) he examines a Newfoundland tradition called the "Old
Hag".  The typical pattern of the story is that a person wakes
up, has the perception of being clearly awake, but then feels
as if she or he cannot move.  In addition, there is a feeling
as if something is pressing down upon them.  The encounter
usually ends when the person is eventually able to move some
part of the body or call out.  There are a large variety of
elments that accompany this experience from being "ridden by
a Witch" to mysterious personages in the room, out of body
experiences, etc.  As a part of Newfoundland's folklore
tradition such stories have been repeated over and over. 
      But Hufford has found hundreds of cases where people
claim to have personally had the experience in Newfoundland,
the United States  and other parts of the world.  In a
significant percentage of cases individuals have had this
happen to them who have no knowledge of the tradition.
       Studies like Hufford's show that folklore can develop
around repeated experiences.  Rob DeMillo gives us only two
choices:  either Albert Chiang's source is lying or Albert
himself is lying.  There is a third option Rob.  Maybe
Albert's source actually went through such an incident.  For
that matter, maybe his source had heard the Death Car story
before and that caused the person to think they were having
such an encounter.  The point here is not whether the stories
are "real" or not.  The question is whether anyone believes it
has happened to them.  Folklore and experience are not
necessarily antithetical categories.
       3)  Even if all of the stories are merely fictional
tales built around the 1938 incident, how could you possibly
know (short of omniscience) whether Albert's source actually
had such an experience?   Especially when you haven't even
talked to the person, investigated the situation, etc.

Albert or his friend of a friend may indeed be trying to pull
one on us.  But I've always found it refreshing that the
discipline of Folklore places such a strong emphasis upon
examining the evidence before drawing conclusions.

Ken Banner

P.S.  O.K.  I can't resist this...Has anyone out there
ever personally had the kind of experience Hufford
describes?