HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
Date: Fri, 14 Aug 1992 00:01:47 -0400 
From: Radu Eugen Edelstein <re0x+@andrew.cmu.edu>
Subject: Re: Irony continues in our history

Josip Loncarcic writes:
I've never heard of this historian.  Is he reputable?  Why does he think
that a single source's estimate is THE correct one?  I doubt that a
serious historian would consider this kind of hearsay definitive: the
problem was much bigger than a single person could guesstimate simply
by visiting the area.

My claims are based on the few useful studies which were done on this
matter, where both Serbian and Croatian historians compared a wide
variety of available information, such as name lists, demographic
studies, official government documents, etc., and came up with
essentially the same conclusions.  I've reported those conclusions
from a reference by a Serbian historian, but I could quote Croatian
sources which are essentially similar.



I say:
With all due respect to the knowledge of the historians you go on to
quote, generally the professionalism of historians from Eastern
Europe is dobted.  Their works are regarded with suspicion, and for
good reason, many were recognized as being simply part of the propaganda
of the governments of those totalitarian Communist/Socialist states.
Rad
From: weemba@sagi.wistar.upenn.edu (Matthew P Wiener)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
Subject: Where to get rabbi cards
Date: 21 Aug 92 18:27:13 GMT
Reply-To: weemba@sagi.wistar.upenn.edu (Matthew P Wiener)
Organization: The Wistar Institute of Anatomy and Biology

I mentioned rabbi trading cards a few months back, and was unable to
answer requests on where to get them.  Now I know.  As I was fumbling
for my front door key last night, I heard a "shalom aleichem" from
the street behind me, turned around, and what a surprise, there was
someone trolling for donations for a yeshiva in Israel.  He gave me
a lovely wrapped card, told me it would help me to get married, and
so on.  As I looked around for my checkbook in my knapsack, he kept
on naming suggested amounts, and I kept saying, "please, you'll
embarrass me" and he lowered the amount.  So anyway, when I finally
got to my apartment, I opened up the package, and, yup, my very own
rabbi trading card!  Sigh.  It used to be you get Rav Nachman booklets
or some plastic coated tehillim by this method.  I think it's the TV
generation or something, but I don't see the point.
-- 
-Matthew P Wiener (weemba@sagi.wistar.upenn.edu)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
From: Rohed_Jon@macmail.rtsg.mot.com (Jon Rohed)
Subject: Jewish BBSs and KESHERnet question
Organization: Motorola Cellular Subscriber
Distribution: na
Date: Tue, 18 Aug 1992 13:12:25 GMT

Is there a listing of Jewish-related BBSs (esp. in Chicago area) that someone
can post to the net?
Also, I am very interested in finding out about KESHERnet. What is it and where
is it? If there exists dial-up access, I would like to find out about it!

Unfortunately, I don't have access to e-mail right now : ( 

Many thanks in advance!
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
Subject: CYLOR -- again
From: dcs@witsend.tnet.com (D. C. Sessions)
Date: 14 Aug 92 15:40:29 GMT
Organization: Nobody but me -- really
X-Mailer: TMail version 1.03

Every so often somebody points out that CYLOR is either redundant or
else a gratuitous insult to non-O rabbis.  It admittedly has a nice
ring to it, but in the interests of cooling the flames I (modestly)
suggest the substitution of:

CCHA = Consult Competant Halachic Authority

which is, after all, what we really mean.  (Your local rabbi may not
be well-versed in your minhag anyway, right?)

---
--- D. C. Sessions                            Speaking for myself ---
--- Note new network address:                    dcs@witsend.uucp ---
--- And if that doesn't work:                dcs@witsend.tnet.com ---
--- There never was any correspondence between my views and SCI's ---
From: lindae@netcom.com
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
Subject: Need Roommate in Sunnyvale, Cupertino, Mt. View, or Palo Alto
Date: 15 Aug 92 06:17:50 GMT
Distribution: ba
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services  (408 241-9760 guest)



If you are in need of a roommate, let's talk.  I am looking for a non-smoking
roommate, male or female, with no pets!  I do NOT keep kosher.  

Hope to hear from you!

Thanks,

Linda

P.S.  This can either be your apt./townhouse, or we can look for a place
together.

lindae@netcom.com
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
From: hayim@locus.com (Hayim Hendeles)
Subject: Re: Should a jew settle in Israel?
Organization: Locus Computing Corporation, Los Angeles, California
Date: Thu, 20 Aug 1992 21:16:02 GMT

In article <57341@mentor.cc.purdue.edu> hrubin@mentor.cc.purdue.edu (Rubin Herman) writes:
>In article <1992Aug19.225942.617346@locus.com> hayim@locus.com (Hayim Hendeles) writes:
>>In article <57250@mentor.cc.purdue.edu> hrubin@pop.stat.purdue.edu (Herman Rubin) writes:
>>>If every Jew settled in Israel, even kicking out all the goyim in
>>>Israel, Gaza, and the West Bank would not be adequate.  The limits
>>>are quite real, and we cannot count on manna.
>
>>Why stop at Gaza, and the West Bank ?		 :-)
>
>Define the limits.  If we take the limits of David's kingdom at its greatest,
>it is at best close.  Even if we include all of Jordan, and the Damascus
>region of Syria, which is larger.  Remember that we would come close to
>tripling the current population of Israel.


This is fun. If you allow me to define the limits, I wouldn't stop at
Jordan or Damascus either. After all, couldn't you argue that David's
kingdom was sufficient for his day, but today, we need much more room
than that. (OF course, this is not a valid argument according to the
Talmud because "kedusha shniya kidsha l'atid l'avo" (Chagiga 3b))

However, you are of the opinion that we have to use our pure logic.
My logic says that we should take as much land as we need/want :-)
From: rothberg@bimacs.BITNET (Danny Rothenberg)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
Subject: Re: more of ...can of worms....
Date: 17 Aug 92 08:56:33 GMT
Organization: Math department, Bar-Ilan University, Ramat-Gan, ISRAEL

In article <2416@israel.nysernet.org> warren@nysernet.org writes:
>> In article <1992Aug7.020813.7158@cbnewsl.cb.att.com> stank@cbnewsl.cb.att.com (Stan Krieger) writes:
>
>>     6. Why am I not supposed to wear a tallit here?  (As far as I was
>>      concerned, it was "standard" to wear one after the Bar Mitzvah.)
>
>While I was once in a shul (The Jewish Center in NYC) where they asked
>me to put on a tallit even though I normally don't, I've never heard
>of a man being asked to not wear one if it's their practice, even if
>it's clear that the individual is below the legal age of marriage in
                                   ^^^^^^^^^.......^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

In fact both Sephardi and German (Ashkenazi) Jews wear a tallit
[gadol] from at least the age of bar-mitzvah, although the others do
still wear tzitzit [tallit katan].  The question really should be not
why do Sephardim and Yekkes (German Jews) wear one, but rather why do
the others not.

I also have a theory as to why the non-'orthodox' 'streams' do
wear one as they were started off by groups who already did, ie Yekkes
(USA) and Sephardim (England).

(Replies by email please-scj is a very heavy newsgroup and i might
miss it)


>that state.
>--
>/|/-\/-\       The entire kitchen              Jerusalem
> |__/__/_/     is a very bitter apple.
> |warren@      But the farmer
>/ nysernet.org is worried.

-Danny Rothenberg
From: warren@nysernet.org (Warren Burstein)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
Subject: Re: Holes In Sheets??? (Sex, Chassidism, Urban Myths???)
Date: 13 Aug 92 06:55:36 GMT
Reply-To: warren@nysernet.org
Organization: Mail to News Gateway at Wang Labs

dcs = dcs@witsend.uucp (D. C. Sessions)

me: Isn't the hole in the tallit katan rather large for its rumored
me: purpose?

dcs: This leads to ANOTHER rumor frequently circulated about Jews...

You mean the one about nose size?
-- 
/|/-\/-\       The entire auditorium		Jerusalem
 |__/__/_/     is a very three-sided gazelle.
 |warren@      But the hiker
/ nysernet.org is not all that worried.
From: allen@golem.ssc.gov (Michael Allen)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
Subject: Re: Bringing up Baby
Date: 14 Aug 92 15:44:08 GMT
	<1992Aug13.204331.4481@cbnews.cb.att.com>
Reply-To: allen@ssc.gov
Distribution: usa
Organization: SSC Laboratory, Dallas, TX

>>>>> On Thu, 13 Aug 1992 20:43:31 GMT, ask@cbnews.cb.att.com (Arthur S. Kamlet) said:

In article <1992Aug13.204331.4481@cbnews.cb.att.com> ask@cbnews.cb.att.com (Arthur S. Kamlet) writes:

Arthur> In article <LGOLD.92Aug12160000@callahans.Cadence.COM> lgold@callahans.Cadence.COM (Lynn Gold) writes:
>My brother's girlfriend just found out she's pregnant.
>
>Since she's Catholic, she's (of course) going through with the
>pregnancy, and they're getting married.
>
>HE, however, is Jewish.
>
>The two have agreed that while she doesn't want to convert, they want
>to raise the children as Jewish.  He wants to do a "conversion at
>birth" since the children won't be born Jewish.
>
>1. Is this doable?
>2. If not, how can they raise the children as Jews?

Arthur> The best advice is to see your local reform or conservative rabbi.

If you want the child to be raised "as (if) Jewish", perhaps that is
the best advice.  If you want the child to be Jewish--or more to the
point you want what is best for each of the individuals involved--go
see an Orthodox Rabbi.  I would also suggest they read a read the book
"The Bamboo Cradle", for some insight on infant conversion.

Before you judge my advice as too harsh, I would ask you to recall
from Pirkei Avot: Don't judge someone until you have travelled to his
place.  I was in the position of that unborn child and my parents
unfortunately went to a Reform Rabbi.  The details of the problems I
had and have due to this situation are probably not worth the
bandwidth on the net, but I would happily discuss it privately.

-Shalom Aleichem,
 Michael
--
===================================================
But those who toiled knew nothing of the dreams of 
        Those Who Planned;                         
And the minds who planned the Tower of Babel       
        Cared nothing for the workers who built it.

	-Metropolis
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
From: yosi@netcom.com (Yosi Almog)
Subject: Re: Should a jew settle in Israel?
Date: Wed, 19 Aug 92 01:46:07 GMT
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services  (408 241-9760 guest) 



nabil@ncrcol.ColumbiaSC.NCR.COM (Nabil Idriss) writes:


: For the person who originally posted this article: Do you really expect to here
: NO! for this question on SCJ?

I guess most of the people who listen to the traffic on this list are
jews. A big portion of them are not in Israel. I guess I will hear from some
of them that it is not so important 'where you are jew' but 'what jew/person
are you'. But maybe I am wrong. 

What about you, do you think there is any importance for a jew to live
in Israel?

-Yosi

-- 

Yosi Almog
Systems Administrator
403 Whasington st.
S. Cruz CA 95060
Tel. 408/423.6621
From: weemba@sagi.wistar.upenn.edu (Matthew P Wiener)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
Subject: Re: Advertising on the Net - NOTES FROM A SEALED ROOM
Keywords: Persian Gulf War
Date: 18 Aug 92 15:30:52 GMT
Reply-To: weemba@sagi.wistar.upenn.edu (Matthew P Wiener)
Organization: The Wistar Institute of Anatomy and Biology
In-reply-to: warren@nysernet.org (Warren Burstein)

In article <2443@israel.nysernet.org>, warren@nysernet (Warren Burstein) writes:
>I was here during the war.  What rules that I might otherwise be
>expected to follow do I get exempted from?  Is the exemption only from
>the rule against advertising, or can I substitute one of my own?

You're allowed to add a barfic of Hussein to your .signature.  Cheers.
-- 
-Matthew P Wiener (weemba@sagi.wistar.upenn.edu)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
From: jeybbu@ritvax.isc.rit.edu
Subject: Re: thanks (Re: Jewish friends - help!)
Reply-To: jeybbu@ritvax.isc.rit.edu
Organization: Rochester Institute of Technology
Date: Fri, 14 Aug 1992 17:12:38 GMT

Richard,

The book has some real potential.  

Since you state the context of your concern I would offer you a simple sure 
fire solution.  Keep some cookies or individual cakes from Enteman's, or
even local Chicago house brands with an OU around the house.  Offer them,
unopened when the need arises.  Offer Coke products in the can, (except at
passover).  Make it a point to say you care and respect their position.

I have found that nonJewish friends are uusally much more understanding
of this than are nonobservant Jews (in many cases).

Thank you for caring...

Julian Yudelson
From: hrubin@pop.stat.purdue.edu (Herman Rubin)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
Subject: Re: Reform law versus guidelines
Date: 16 Aug 92 01:32:00 GMT
Organization: Purdue University Statistics Department

In article <1992Aug12.065928.9505@midway.uchicago.edu> clmn@midway.uchicago.edu writes:
>In article <1992Aug11.202717.4198@cbnewsm.cb.att.com> segs@cbnewsm.cb.att.com (susan.e.slusky) writes:
>>Bill Coleman says:
>>>I was raised in a Reform household; to this day my parents eat both pork and
>>>shellfish.  At no time in my life has any Reform spokesperson told me that
>>>eating such things was a forbidden act.

			........................

>Let me take this a step farther.  Fifteen years ago my wife attended a talk
>given by the then assistant rabbi of the major Reform synagogue in Denver.
>(He's now the senior rabbi.)  The topic was the Reform position on kashrut.
>He said there were a number of valid reasons that a Reform Jew might have
>for observing kashrut.  Among them:  Respect for other family members, an
>affection for tradition, as a means for sanctifying one's life, etc etc.
>Many reasons, all of which would gain the approval of any of us.  But, he
>said, what makes Reform distinctive is the one reason which a Reform Jew
>would NOT use; namely, a belief that G-d said one must.

>I think this very neatly captures the liberal position on the subject.

I do not accept this interpretation.  There is the serious question of
whether God said this, or whether those who wrote the Torah thought that
was what God wanted them to write.  If the Torah is the literal word of
God, then we should not have difficulties in reconciling much of it with
our secular knowledge, especially if one accepts the position that both
the first commandment in Genesis, and also the Eden story, explicitly
command us to learn the absolute laws of God, those which govern the
operation of the universe.  This has been argued here, and the arguments
need not be repeated.

Even in the section on kashruth, there are statements which presumably
were according to the rather poor biological observations of that time,
but which we know now to be false.  I claim that this necessarily should
cause one to question just what was from God, and what was tribal taboo
or based on similar grounds.  There is no other information on this, so
we have to use our own soul-searching, and our own attempts to communicate
with God, to help arrive at what is wanted of us.
-- 
Herman Rubin, Dept. of Statistics, Purdue Univ., West Lafayette IN47907-1399
Phone: (317)494-6054
hrubin@pop.stat.purdue.edu (Internet, bitnet)  
{purdue,pur-ee}!pop.stat!hrubin(UUCP)
From: saal@cbnewsl.cb.att.com (samuel.saal)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
Subject: Re: Jewish summer camps (Was: Hebrew school)
Date: 14 Aug 92 12:29:23 GMT
Organization: liver ---> spleen

In article <2421@israel.nysernet.org> warren@nysernet.org writes:

>In <1992Aug12.075847.11312@midway.uchicago.edu>
clmn@ellis.uchicago.edu (Bill Coleman) writes:

>>My ten year-old just got back from Camp Moshava ... She also wrote
>>letters to Mr. & Mrs. Wm. Coleman, even though her mother uses her
>>maiden name. 

>I'm not sure if this is one of the good things about the Moshava
>experience or not.  Wouldn't kibud em require a child to address her
>mother the way she wishes to be addressed?

Except when used as a joke, my parents would think it odd, at least, if
addressed as anything other than "Mom and Dad" (or the other way around,
of course :-).  
-- 
Sam Saal      kingfish!saal OR saal@kingfish.att.com
		Note new machine name
	Vayiftach HaShem et Peah Ha`Aton
From: hrubin@pop.stat.purdue.edu (Herman Rubin)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
Subject: Re: Jews in former Yugoslavia
Date: 17 Aug 92 17:37:55 GMT
Organization: Purdue University Statistics Department

In article <1992Aug16.120118.17455@discus.technion.ac.il> ben@ccvs1.technion.ac.il (Ben Pashkoff) writes:

>In article <199208101341.AA22551@das.wang.com>, MASH@WEIZMANN.WEIZMANN.AC.IL (Michael Shimshoni) writes:
>|>bm062@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Jay Jacobs) asks:
>|>>How many Jews still live in Bosnia, Serbia, Croatia, etc. And do they want to
>|>>leave? Are they observant? I guess that says it all. Of course I realize that
>|>>the answersare not quite so simple as the questions above, but it's a start...

>|>Why is it important to know if they are observant?

>You know, I do not know if that is important. It seems much more important that
>they be brought out of there, alive and well, and perhaps brought home to
>Israel.

On this morning's TV news, the Jews of Sarajevo are leaving.  Many of them
remember being saved from the Nazis by the locals.

The broadcast also pointed out that many Yugoslavs in various parts of the
country risked their lives to save Jews.
-- 
Herman Rubin, Dept. of Statistics, Purdue Univ., West Lafayette IN47907-1399
Phone: (317)494-6054
hrubin@pop.stat.purdue.edu (Internet, bitnet)  
{purdue,pur-ee}!pop.stat!hrubin(UUCP)
From: bramson@psy.psych.nova.edu (Jennifer Bramson)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
Subject: Re: I have yet to meet a Jewish murderer.
Date: 19 Aug 92 21:25:30 GMT

>lexier@fraser.sfu.ca (Lyle Lexier) writes:

>>      Since Jews are decent people, I have yet to meet a Jewish murderer, 
>> therefore the death penalty is trivial in Israel.

	I'm Jewish and  consider myself a decent person, but I don't know that
I'd make an assumption about our whole religion/culture.  I work with battered
women and men who batter.  I see as many Jews as any other group in my practice.And many of them are court-ordered.  A colleague of mine is even working with
a Hasidic family.  
	In spite of our historical lessons, don't delude yourself, we are often
violent ourselves!

Jennifer L. Bramson
From: rothberg@bimacs.BITNET (Danny Rothenberg)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
Subject: Re: is the hebrew language a new language?
Date: 14 Aug 92 09:11:39 GMT
Organization: Math department, Bar-Ilan University, Ramat-Gan, ISRAEL

In article <1992Aug13.030749.21351@ll.mit.edu> shoham@ll.mit.edu (Daniel Shoham) writes:
>
>Modern Hebrew is the same as the biblical one with modern vocabulary and
>gramer added in the past 100 years or so. For the ~2000 years between the
>biblical era and modern Israel, hebrew was used for religious purposes only
>(much like latin's use today by other religions).
>
>The language was revived by one Ben Yehuda, who was an early zionist. His
                                 ^^^^^^^^^^

For a non-Hebrew speaker  it surely would have been better to have
written 'ben-Yehuda' as the 'ben' prefix means 'son' (or more
gramatically in this case, for reasons I do not want to go into here,
'son of') and his first name was Eliezer.

He was an immigrant from
France and might very well, like many early Zionists have
'Hebraicised' his name, eg. David Grynbaum=David ben-Gurion, Golda
Myerson=Golda Meir, and Yitzchak Shamir was something else before as
well, but I cannot remember.  Ben-Yehuda (and to many, especially
young, Jerusalemites, Ben-Yehuda is the main pedestrian-mall in the
centre of Jerusalem where buskers play, there are open-air cafes, etc)
decided that the Zionist movement needed to have a modern language,
and most definitely NOT Yiddish as it was reminiscent of everything
the early NON-religious Zionists were trying to escape.  He had great
difficulty persuading others to use it,  but once he persuaded the
Technion, the prestigious institute of science and technology in
Haifa, to use it as the langauge of instruction instead of the then
current language of science, German, it then took off and led to where
we are today (see below).


>effort led to Hebrew now being the language of Israel.
>
>Hebrew is the normally spoken language in Israel by all exept for the
>non-jewish minorities (who often speak it as a second language) and
>Olims - newcommers (who learn it in special schools - Ulpans)
 ^^^^^

'Olims' is a double plural! :-)  What you have done is to anglicise a
Hebrew plural.  The singular is Oleh/Olah (m/f) with the plural form
being Olim/Olot (m/f-with the rider that if even one of them is
masculine, then whole thing masculine (cf French)-I myself had a
similar experience when in Ulpan (lit studio, but used to mean
intensive Hebrew instruction course) being theonly male in a class
with about ten females and the teacher (also female) had to use the
masculine form - all because of me!).

There is another similar form of possible anglicisation of Hebrew
words:

There are two commonly mentioned types of angels mentioned in
Christion literature, lifted straight from the Jewish sources: Cherub
& Seraph.

These have three possible plural forms:

(i)   -s  (English form of plural)
(ii)  -im (Hebrew form of plural)
(iii) -ims (sic) (both forms of plural!)


-Danny Rothenberg
From: warren@nysernet.org (Warren Burstein)
Subject: Re: more of ...can of worms....
Reply-To: warren@nysernet.org
Organization: Mail to News Gateway at Wang Labs
Date: 18 Aug 92 08:10:28 GMT

In <RLK.92Aug17162323@underprize.think.com> rlk@underprize.think.com (Robert Krawitz) writes:

>but I expect them to show me the same courtesy and not push me around either.

Who's being pushed around?

Don't you people realize, I can post articles all day long insisting
that each and every one of you must vote for Kibo for president, and
you still get to decide for your self what to do?
-- 
/|/-\/-\       The entire kitchen		Jerusalem
 |__/__/_/     is a very cold mathom.
 |warren@      But the okra
/ nysernet.org is not all that concerned.
From: hayim@locus.com (Hayim Hendeles)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
Subject: Re: Should a jew settle in Israel?
Date: 21 Aug 92 22:14:00 GMT
Organization: Locus Computing Corporation, Los Angeles, California

In article <1992Aug21.172320.624469@locus.com> hayim@locus.com (Hayim Hendeles) writes:
>In article <57433@mentor.cc.purdue.edu> hrubin@mentor.cc.purdue.edu (Rubin Herman) writes:
>>
>>
>>>This is fun. If you allow me to define the limits, I wouldn't stop at
>>>Jordan or Damascus either. After all, couldn't you argue that David's
>>>kingdom was sufficient for his day, but today, we need much more room
>>>than that. (OF course, this is not a valid argument according to the
>>>Talmud because "kedusha shniya kidsha l'atid l'avo" (Chagiga 3b))
>>
>>>However, you are of the opinion that we have to use our pure logic.
>>>My logic says that we should take as much land as we need/want :-)
>>
>>What is the difference between this and simply declaring that the
>>whole world is Israel?  Then all Jews are automatically living in
>>Israel, and the problems of aliyah disappear completely!


Your idea is an excellent idea, and I might even let you talk me
into this  - if you can solve one minor problem.

Where do you plan to put all the goyim? After all, we all agreed to
the original statement that we could kick out all the goyim. :-)

I suspect if we bussed them all to the Moon or Mars, they may
not be too happy about that.