HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: ellerman@NORFOLK.NADN.NAVY.MIL ((Ens Alexander W Ellermann))
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.cinema-l
Subject: Nihilism & More!
Date: 29 Sep 92 17:09:02 GMT
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In response to the individual who railed against the value or even possibility
of judgement in aesthetic (&, by extension, any) matters:

        Lasting art tends to embody certain aesthetics which do not change
from generation to generation.  When we discuss cinema & the relative
attributes of various films, we tend to rely on principles set out by Aristotle
in his "Poetics."  They seem to have provided a reasonable guideline for
judgement for quite some time.  Since most of us operate from this foundation
regardless of our consciousness of it, it's easy for us to dispute the merits
of a film.  (I know - Aristotle didn't discuss cinematography, but you know
what I mean.)  We use reason to help us in our judgements, for without reliance
on our ability to judge, we descend into nihilism.  And we all know that's no
fun ;-).

Now, on to other subjects.  Silence of the Lambs.  Nice thriller, but no
Dead Again.  Is it belaboring the obvious to say that Kenneth Branagh is the
future of film?

Danny Elfman.  Check out the soundtrack to "Forbidden Zone."  A real treat for
the real wierd.

More Buckaroo Banzai fans:  I know a Green Beret who has the movie poster &
a Naval officer who has seen it 7 times.

Highlander II.  The worst part about it was that everyone seemed so serious.
Wait.  On second thought, there *was* no H2.  Who were these Arrakis refugees,
anyway?
                                            My soap box is creaking.  Gotta go!
                                                        Alex
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Date:         Sat, 26 Sep 1992 03:30:00 BSC
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From:         GELSON GOMES <GELSON@BRFAPESP.BITNET>
Subject:      Mastering Internet Tools

         "Mastering INTERNET Tools, Seizing METANET Power" -
                    "The InterMeta Course"

     Begining on October 10, the InterMeta Course will describe
the History of the Metanetwork and cover the basic utilities used
to access the network, as well as to guide users through the
Internet's, Bitnet's, (and othernets') "databases of databases"
to access files and archives available. Some of the topics to be
presented in the InterMeta Course are how to (1)Remote Login,
(2)Use Electronic Mail, (3)Move a File, (4)Find Software,
(5)Locate a Person, (3)Deal with Network Problems. An index that
covers a selection of resources available on the Internet,
ranging from Card Catalogs to Archives for USENET news will also
be delivered.
     In addition, some sessions will help UNIX, VMS, VAX and DOS
users to interface their systems to the Net.
     Resulting from five years of researching and using the
Network, the InterMeta Course is being prepared by Gelson
Gomes, Ph.D. The InterMeta is the first experience of a Global
Scale Course utilizing a matrix of connected networks, the
Metanetwork.
     Dr. Gomes is a professor at the Federal University of Parana
and is conducting research on the Computer Industries of Brazil
and Taiwan. He got his Doctoral Degree on Science and Technology
Public Policy at The George Washington University (Washington
D.C.).
     The course will be ministered from Brazil; to help
recovering local communication costs, (PDN is very expensive in
Brazil) a flat $ 5 US dollars donation is requested.
     To enroll in the InterMeta Course, please fill in the
application bellow and E-Mail to: Gelson@BRFAPESP.
____________________________________________________________
       Mastering INTERNET Tools, Seizing METANET Power -
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Mail your check to:
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Date:         Mon, 28 Sep 1992 08:20:00 EDT
From:         Peter.Giordano@WILLIAMS.EDU
Subject:      Re: _The_Women_/B&W/Color

I think that there is an explanation for the creation of the color sequence
on the laser disc version of THE WOMEN
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Date:         Tue, 6 Oct 1992 15:13:00 EDT
From:         David M Stein <STEIN@LTUVAX.BITNET>
Subject:      RE" Bell, Book and Candle and Bewitched

The TV series "Bewitched" was loosely based on the Veronica Lake film
"I Married a Witch", but I'm sure the "Bewitched" creators saw BB&C
also.

Dave
Stein
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Date:         Tue, 6 Oct 1992 16:39:00 EST
Reply-To:     ELGFROEHRER@PSUCES.BITNET
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From:         ELGFROEHRER@PSUCES.BITNET
Subject:      Sexism, et al.

                  I N T E R O F F I C E   M E M O R A N D U M

                                        Date:     06-Oct-1992 04:31pm DST
                                        From:     Ellen L. Gfroehrer
                                                  ELGFROEHRER
                                        Dept:     Independent Learning
                                        Tel No:   (814) 865-5403

TO:  Remote Network Mail User             ( _IN%CINEMA-L@AUVM.BITNET )


Subject: Sexism, et al.

Mike (Kerbel):

Your description of characters from movies that are highly regarded by many is
strikingly one dimensional.  I am amused that you could see so much merit in
Annie Hall and so little in Ordinary People.  Perhaps it is how you are viewing
these characters and not the characters themselves.  For example, I thought
Ordinary people was and extraordinary film and Mary Tyler Moore's
characterization was well done.  I also liked Diane Keaton's characterization
in Annie Hall, but it really would not be a stretch of the imagination to
consider that Annie Hall was a stereotype of a WASP, ditzy type from the
Midwest.  You could look at it that way, or you could say that she was
charmingly eccentric.  I guess what you get is what you see.

Ellen
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Date:         Tue, 6 Oct 1992 12:09:42 -0500
From:         FAC_JCLARK@JMUVAX.BITNET
Subject:      Re: Fame vs. American singer-performer film

That's it, Susan!  Jeff Clark
From: JACKSOSM@VUCTRVAX.BITNET
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.cinema-l
Subject: Re: Good [BAD] Movies
Date: 5 Oct 92 15:19:07 GMT
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Subj:   RE: Good [BAD] Movies

>If there are pieces of sexism in culture, and then
>these pieces are then depicted in either stories or
>characters of a movie,  should a movie then be
>slammed as being sexist?
>
>Just curious
>
>Joe Daus   U of MO-Columbia

In the age of political correctness, there is a corollary to the
principle of fair play... it means don't portray society as it is,
portray it as it ought to be.  A dubious concept borrowed, perhaps, from the
Norman Rockwell school of painting.

j-man

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Date:         Mon, 28 Sep 1992 12:34:25 -0500
From:         FAC_JCLARK@JMUVAX.BITNET
Subject:      Re: Last of the Mohicans

John Smyth:  Yes indeedy, Mr. Mann did Manhunter and Miami Vice.  He also did
an earlier (interesting and arty) horror movie called THE KEEP.  I recommend
a viewing.  Jeff Clark
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Date:         Fri, 2 Oct 1992 13:59:17 CST
From:         "Dick Clawson, S.J." <CLAWSON@LOYNOVM.BITNET>
Subject:      Re: Parodies of Movies

    A very recent and very funny parody is an Italian film called the
"Icicle Thief"  This is an homage/parody of "The Bicycle Thief" which gets
pretty bizzare as real life merges with movie and television.  I can't
remember who did this film, can anyone help me out?  I can find out
shortly, I suppose.   If you can, check it out.
RDC,SJ
From: CX935C@GWUVM.BITNET (Patrick)
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.cinema-l
Subject: Re: Parodies of Movies
Date: 2 Oct 92 18:39:55 GMT
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU

How about the tiny toons when they made fun of Citizen Kane. It was funny.
Montana Max in the Title role. Made fun of a lot of stuff in the movie.

The simpsons always make fun of movie scenes during the show. I remember one
time when Homer fell and red paint fell over going down the drain he pulled on
the shower curtain. And a close up of Homer's eye, ala Psycho.
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Date:         Wed, 30 Sep 1992 08:02:00 LCL
From:         "(RAPSW)" <RAPSW.ORS@MHS.UNC.EDU>
Subject:      Re: Dead Ringers

To: CINEMA

Dick Clawson is correct:  the movie _Dead Ringers_ was based on a book
called _Twins_.  The book was indeed inspired by a true story, and in fact
I remember seeing articles in the press about the twin gynecologists at the
time they died.

David Cronenberg couldn't name the movie _Twins_ because the Arnold
Schwarzenegger/Danny DeVito movie of that name was in production around the
same time.  (Personally, I think Dead Ringers was a great choice--captures
the grim humor of the movie.)

Read the book.  See the movie.

--Penny
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Organization: State University of New York - College at Fredonia
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Date:         Tue, 6 Oct 1992 13:04:46 -0400
From:         "Michael P. Gilly" <GILL7935@FREDONIA.BITNET>
Subject:      Re: Fame

I always thought "Fame" was a movie about the School of the Arts in
New York City:-)
Mike
SUNY Fredonia
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Date:         Mon, 5 Oct 1992 12:28:43 CDT
From:         C444307@MIZZOU1.BITNET
Subject:      Re: GOOD [bad] MOVIES

>>   I am undoubtedly biased.  I suppose that I wanted a North American version
>>of THE MISSION, but I still can't help feeling that BR fell short of the mark
>>when compared to history.  ESPECIALLY the little tag at the end that tells how
>>the peaceful Hurons were slaughtered x-many years laters by another tribe.  It
>>left a distinct impression in my mind that the author wished to blame the
>>influence of the missionaries on their defeat...
>>RDC,SJ
>
>Richard,
>  Not to initiate a socio-historical debate on a list devoted to cinema,
>but given the assumptions of the film, isn't it reasonable to conclude
>that the conversion to Christianity by the Hurons might have contributed
>to their defeat by tribes less sensitive to a morality whose basic
>premise advocates "turning one's cheek" in the face of aggression.
>
>j-man
>
VERY interesting point here j-man, I too don't know if all
of us would care to hear a discussion on this (I would),
but never-the-less a very interesting point.
If you two, Dick and j-man, discuss this  between the two
of you, I'ld love to eavesdrop.

Joe Daus  U of MO-Columbia
C444307@MIZZOU1.bitnet
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Date:         Tue, 29 Sep 1992 17:30:37 EDT
From:         "Patrick Ricciardi" <CX935C@GWUVM.BITNET>
Subject:      Hero

     Has anyone else seen Hero starring Dustin Hoffman, Geena Davis, and
 Andy Garcia? If not go see it on Friday when it gets its full release. I
 saw it as a sneak preview. The entire audience applauded scenes laughed at
 scenes and snickered at scenes. Just because everyone else liked it doesn't
 mean I automatically like it, but it was a terrific movie. Dustin Hoffman
gave a typical terrific performance. I liked the everyone in the movie.
There wasn't much that I didn't like. It had an ending that you kinda liked
and didn't like at the same time. Some aspects were great, others I didn't
like as much. Overall I don't know how many times I can say it I liked the
movie!!!
             Patrick
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Date:         Sat, 26 Sep 1992 00:29:00 EST
From:         AVAGGARW@OWUCOMCN.BITNET
Subject:      Re: Demento; comment on Mesopotamia . . .

I got your mail.  it made interesting reading.  thanks.

      AAKASH
From: ACCGSG@HOFSTRA.BITNET (Gary Graffagnino)
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.cinema-l
Subject: Re: Movie music?
Date: 28 Sep 92 16:28:59 GMT
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>From: Ellen.Edgerton@SUADMIN.BITNET
>
>I certainly >hope< my remarks got no one riled.  I also would like to
>add that I >don't< think that all period films >must< have a
>classical-orchestral score.  If the director is trying to add to
>the artistic quality of the film, sure, I can see where he or she
>might want to use electronic music in a historical epic, for
>example.  No problem.
>But somehow I just don't think ROBIN HOOD was meant to be terribly
>artistic.  I think it was meant to be a rip roarin' adventure film.
>And the Bryan Adams song just didn't go.  I had the same problem
>with the score for LADYHAWKE.

I agree totally.  Take the movie Grand Canyon for example.  It was strictly
electronic music (if I remember right).  Yet I thought the score was perfectly
apropriate to the setting in California.  It all depends on the mood of the
film.

>As for John Williams, I do not like most of his music, but that is
>not because I don't think he's talented.  I do.  I realize the
>fact I don't like his music is because it's usually orchestrated
>in a way my ear doesn't take to.  It sounds too breathy and
>gee-whiz for my liking.

Strictly a matter of opinion, I guess.

>On the other hand, I can't stand Miklos Rozsa, either.  I know, I
>know, I know, he's the One of the Greatest Composers Of All Time
>etc etc etc.  I can listen to BEN HUR and that's about it.
>Too much bombast for my liking.

Dmitri Tiomkin is another simialr composer to Miklos Rozsa.  I seem to like all
of this bombast.
                           ______
  Gary Graffagnino         \    /   "What I wouldn't give for a plate of
  accgsg@hofstra.bitnet     \  /     fried green tomatoes like we used to
  accgsg@vaxc.hofstra.edu    \/      have at the Whistle Stop Cafe"
                                                  -Mrs. Cleo Threadgoode (FGT)
From: BL.JMP@RLG.BITNET (Jennifer Porro)
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.cinema-l
Subject: Re: Shirley MacLaine
Date: 29 Sep 92 16:10:18 GMT
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REPLY TO 09/29/92 08:55 FROM CINEMA-L@AUVM.BITNET "Discussions on all forms of
Cinema": Re: Shirley MacLaine

I too must come to the defense of Shirley MacLaine.  Although I now
find her overbearing and generally obnoxious as a public personality,
she has done some very affecting work on film -- especially THE
APARTMENT and SOME CAME RUNNING, as someone else mentioned.  And she
was appealing in an offbeat way in several comedies (also of late
50s/early 60s vintage) -- THE TROUBLE WITH HARRY, as one.

Jennifer Porro

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Date:         Mon, 28 Sep 1992 17:14:00 BSC
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From:         gomide@FPSP.FAPESP.BR
Subject:      Apologies re: InterMeta course

PLEASE DO NOT SEND MONEY !
It is with regret that I perform this task. Dr. Gelson V. Gomes. a
professor of the University of Parana, Brazil, has exceeded this
privileges and announced a eletronic course:

> ____________________________________________________________
>        Mastering INTERNET Tools, Seizing METANET Power -
>                      The InterMeta Course
> ____________________________________________________________

I must apologize for this flagrant breach of network etiquette. Please
be aware that Dr. Gelson had no right to do so, since this is against
the rules of our ANSP network, and also against the Bitnet rules.
PLEASE DO NOT SEND MONEY!
I will not discuss what his motivations were. But his account has been
revoked, and there will be no such course through my network.

Please write by normal mail, to:
-> Gelson V. Gomes
-> 358, R. Alvaro Andrade - ap.1201
-> Curitiba PR BRAZIL 80610-240
to get more information on his objectives. He may want to give the
course by normal mail.  :-)

With regards,
--
Alberto Courrege Gomide | Fundacao de Amparo `a Pesquisa - (11)831-3357
Software Supervisor     | Rua Pio XI, 1500 - CEP 05468-901 - Sao Paulo
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Date:         Mon, 28 Sep 1992 13:37:08 CDT
From:         Michelle Lehman <MICHELLE@ORTTA.UMN.EDU>
Subject:      Re: SINGLES

> >From: ACCNEWS@vaxc.hofstra.edu
> >
> >From: bc205z16@hofstra.bitnet
> >Subject: SINGLES
> >
> >JUST SAW SINGLES...THE MOVIE WAS A LITTLE TOO GLOSSY (GOSH EVEN THE
 SOUNDTRACK
> >WAS GLOSSY) DID ANYONE ELSE SEE IT? WHAT DID YOU THINK.
>
> One might thing you were shouting by all of your capital letters :-)
>
> Actually I rather enjoyed this movie.  I didn't read too much into it at the
> time.  I just relied on the first impressions I got and I liked it.  It got a
> little draggy in the middle, though.
>                            ______
>   Gary Graffagnino         \    /   "Look!  It Enrico Palatzzo!'
>   accgsg@hofstra.bitnet     \  /
>   accgsg@vaxc.hofstra.edu    \/            -Guy from the Naked Gun

    I too enjoyed this movie.  I did the same as Gary, just relied on
first impressions and basically liked the movie.  However, it did
tend to drag a bit in the middle.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Michelle Lehman                                 michelle@ortta.umn.edu
University of Minnesota                                Minneapolis, MN
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
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Date:         Tue, 6 Oct 1992 09:57:20 -0500
From:         JACKSOSM@VUCTRVAX.BITNET
Subject:      Re: UNFORGIVEN

Subj:   UNFORGIVEN


SPOILER
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>

>
>
>

>
>

>
>I think the ending of UNFORGIVEN departs a lot from
>the tone of the rest of the movie. The message seemed
>to be that violence begets violence, and those who live
>by the gun will ultimately be destroyed. But the gun-fight
>at the end of the movie, when Munny kills all his opponents
>and rides off to live happily ever after, is perhaps less
>realistic. Surely a bounty-hunter who killed a sheriff, 5
>deputies, an unarmed barkeeper and the two cowboys would
>>have a bounty placed upon himself.
>>                                  The movie "Shane" had a more
>realistic outcome, with Alan Ladd (wounded ) disappearing into
>the night and an uncertain future. OK OK, there aren't too many
>similarities between the two movies, but I thought Clint might
>have done better than just a piece of text scrolling up the screen
>at the end of UNFORGIVEN, telling us that Munny had prospered.
>            Rod Steiger, in a magazine interview this month,
>reckoned that it was very unrealistic to show a black man
>(Freeman) in a white brothel.
>
>      It's still a great movie.
>
>                        John Smyth

John, with all due respect, I think you are confusing documentary with
storytelling.  Eastwood's film is not disguised as history.  The essence
of the story is not located in a minutia of details which may or may
not correspond to "how things really were."  The truth
conveyed by the film belongs to the viewer's recognition that morality
is often a dirty, ambiguous affair, not conducive to easy judgments
about right and wrong.  Was Munny a good man?  Well, he killed innocent
people.  Then he must be an evil man.  But he was a faithful husband and tried
to be a good father to his children.  Then he must be a good man.  But
he was a violent person.  He killed people for money.  Then he must be
an evil man... etc., etc. ad nauseum.

The moral from "Unforgiven" is not that violence pays, but that we live
in a violent world, caught between the shadows of good and evil,
where the light ofjustice does not always illuminate our actions,
and we are forced to muddle through using our own fallible judgement.

j-man

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Date:         Wed, 30 Sep 1992 10:15:23 -0500
From:         huddle@VTTCF.CC.VT.EDU
Subject:      Roger and I

_Roger and Me_ played on our local PBS station this Monday evening.  After
that was a new short film from the director called _Food or Meat_.  This
was a piece that went back to Flint and revisted with several of the
characters, err.. people that we met in the first film.  The police
chief who had to evict people on Christmas Eve, the woman who was raising
rabbits for "food or meat", the lonely tourist director for Flint, and
others.

You may remember the brutal scene from the first movie as the rabbit farmer
clubbed a rabbit and skinned it on the film.  This film has at least as
gory a scene involving a rabbit and boa constrictor.

Politics aside, I liked the documentary.  I thought it used humor as its
venom in an unusual way, I thought it very atypical for a documentary, and
appreciated its style.

2cents

--
-scott
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Date:         Sat, 26 Sep 1992 23:58:00 EDT
From:         Peter.Giordano@WILLIAMS.EDU
Subject: Re: Colorized Gilgamesh? Evil!

Actually since Rick brings up LAST OF THE MOHICANS I have to ask
why the heck to the bother to claim that the film is based on the
book at all? Natty Bumpo with a girlfriend??? Nathan Poe - Come on -
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