HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: rbs@cyclops.micr.Virginia.EDU (Robert B. Sisk)
Subject: Re: ARCAS Performance...
Organization: University of Virginia
Date: Fri, 21 Aug 1992 15:52:00 GMT

In article <19824@plains.NoDak.edu> enders@bolshoi.uucp writes:
>
>     I came across some specifications for the ARCAS, and, having previously
>lamented about not being able to achieve similar performance from an HPR
>model, I have to possibly reconsider this position.
>
>     ARCAS Specifications:
>
>     Total Length:    7.5 ft.	
>     Diameter:        4.5 in.
>     Take-off Weight:  77 Lb.
>     Payload Weight:   12 Lb.
>     Burn time:        29 sec.
>     Avg. Thrust:     336 Lb.      (ca. 1495 Nt.)
>     Peak Alt.         32 Mi.
>
>     Total impulse would be about 43,400 Nt/sec., just a bit more than an O
>engine.  So, maybe with a suitable N or O engine, one could duplicate or
>exceed this level of performance with say a 50 Lb rocket carrying a smaller
>payload (say 5 lb.).  Something along the line of an N700 or an O1200 would


I have never seen an O motor, but an article in the Tripolitan about
BALLS 001 (I think) described one O or P motor as weighing about 100 lbs.

Bob
-- 
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Robert B. Sisk  PhD			Internet: rbs@virginia.edu
NAR #53448				UUCP:     uunet!virginia!rbs
TRIPOLI #1583                           CIS:      71501.1651@CompuServe.COM
Newsgroups: rec.models.rockets
From: biesel@javelin.sim.es.com (Heiner Biesel)
Subject: Re: Rockets on Radar
Organization: Evans & Sutherland Computer Corporation
Distribution: usa
Date: Wed, 19 Aug 1992 18:40:01 GMT

cdt@sw.stratus.com (C. D. Tavares) writes:

>In article <547@rml.UUCP>, jack@rml.UUCP (jack hagerty) writes:
>> >> Or you could do what Lonnie Reese did when he came out with his Thunderbolt.
>> >> He had the Missouri Highway Patrol clock his bird with radar.
>> >
>> >Probably a bogus story.  Model rockets HAVE been tracked with radar (at
>> >Wallops Island) but it was damn expensive, big-disk, fast-swivel radar, 
>> >and damned hard.  They didn't get but less than a quarter of them.  (I 
>> >was told this by the guy who did it.)  The problem is, there's damn little 
>> >radar-reflective material in a model rocket.
>> 
>> If you want to track one with radar, wrap the body in aluminum foil or
>> some aluminum coated mylar. You could even put the foil on the inside
>> since, as Chris points out, the body tube is pretty transparent to RF.

>Doesn't work real well.  Believe me, the guy I talked to at Wallops
>was a pro.  He tried this.  The problem is, when you're close enough to
>the launch area to get a good signature, you're looking up the ass end
>of the rocket, where you can't SEE the foil.  When you get back to
>where you can get a good lateral shot of the foil, the signature is 
>real small (at least model rockets, they didn't do HP in those days).
>-- 

This was probably true some time ago. I have read, however, that modern
radar is sufficiently sensitive to be able to distinguish the species
of a bird from the doppler signature it leaves on the radar. Since birds
are not very reflective either, this suggests that a model rocket would
be easily picked up. BTW, you don't want to use smooth mylar or foil
but rather crinkled stuff that forms many corners and edges. Best of
all would be several corner cubes, which would show up quite bright
on any radar.

Regards,
       H. Biesel.
Newsgroups: rec.models.rockets
From: wcsbeau@alfred.carleton.ca (OPIRG)
Subject: Nike v.s. Mosquito
Organization: Carleton University, Ottawa, Canada
Date: Sun, 23 Aug 1992 16:22:50 GMT

About a week ago, there was a post to the effect that the only model
rocket which could accelerate anything like a NIKE-* was a mosquito.
I worked out the peak acceleration of a mosquito with a A10 engine to be
(roughly) 128G!  What kind of acceleration does a NIKE get?  I can't
imagine how any payload accelerated that strongly could survive
intact.

Christopher Allen
(wcsbeau@alfred.carleton.ca)
Newsgroups: rec.models.rockets
From: Roger.Wilfong@umich.edu
Subject: Re: Astrocam
Organization: U of M Hospitals
Distribution: usa
Date: Fri, 14 Aug 1992 20:04:27 GMT

In article <BszLnn.MC3@andy.bgsu.edu> jkonecn@andy.bgsu.edu (Joe Konecny)
writes:
>
>Estes doesn't appear to make the Astrocam anymore and I would like one.  
>I've heard that the pictures are low quality but I need to start somewhere.
>Does anyone have one (in good condition) that they want to sell?  The Astro-
>cam wasn't in Estes cat. but they did make reference to it saying you could 
>use it as a payload.  How about a telephone number for Estes?

The Astrocam was just recently discontinued.  You could local hobby shops or
some of the mail order distributers.  (Try RMJ's list for names and phone
numbers)
>
> Also, has anyone tried out that new RC controlled rocket glider?  It says it
>cost $75, does that include the controller?  Hopefully this kit is complete
>for that price.

You have to supply the radio.  $75 is about average to above average for RC
planes on this complexity.
From: cdt@sw.stratus.com (C. D. Tavares)
Newsgroups: rec.models.rockets
Subject: Re: Ignition Systems
Date: 17 Aug 92 21:56:16 GMT
Distribution: na
Organization: Stratus Computer, Inc.

In article <1992Aug17.183219.28760@aio.jsc.nasa.gov>, hack@aio.jsc.nasa.gov (Edmund Hack) writes:
> My question is making the continuity check safe for flashbulbs and
> electric matches.  The circuit that I have shows a Radio Shack LED in
> series with a 1k ohm resistor.  This gives a current of about 12 ma
> with a 12v battery. An LED will require about 10ma to light from what I 
> can glean from data books.

NFPA 1126 (I think), "Pyrotechnics in the Performing Arts," specifies
that electrical ignition devices must sustain up to 45mA without igniting.
Therefore, commercial squibs, electric matches, and the like, should
sustain that amperage.  However, things like flashbulbs, or custom
igniters made by small rocket companies who don't sell to the general
market may well not conform.  I have NEVER gotten a definitive answer
on this issue.  Our club launch system uses 100uA and a real cheap
surplus 200uA metal-detector meter from American Science and Surplus,
(something like $2) and it works like a total champ.
-- 

cdt@pdp.sw.stratus.com      --If you believe that I speak for my company,
OR cdt@vos.stratus.com        write today for my special Investors' Packet...
Newsgroups: rec.models.rockets
From: george@intelhf.hf.intel.com (George Rachor)
Subject: Re: RE: B14's
Organization: Development Tools Operation, Intel Corp., Hillsboro  OR
Date: Wed, 12 Aug 92 16:51:22 GMT

> In article <10AUG199218270082@vx.cis.umn.edu>, soc1070 writes...
>>I asked Ed LaCroix once if he had any interest in getting Estes to re-
>>manufacture B14 for Apogee. He said that he had, in fact, approached
>>Estes about it. 
>> 
>>As he related it to me, Estes was adamently against manufacturing B14s.
>> 
>>I don't recall the reason he stated verbatem, but I think it was a 
>>safety issue - either they kept blowing up because of the high thrust
>>in flight or there was a safety concern over the actual manufacture
>>of the motors, I can't remember for sure. Either way, I think its been
>>at least 10 years since they were on the market.
>

Too bad!  It was the only real way to get my Astron Shrike off the ground
in a big hurry!  I miss them too.
 
-- 
George L. Rachor Jr.
Prefered mail address:
george@endeavor.intel.com

Newsgroups: rec.models.rockets
From: tstark@netcom.com (Timothy Stark)
Subject: Help! Building Astro Blaster Glider
Date: Sun, 16 Aug 92 16:43:16 GMT
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services  (408 241-9760 guest) 
Keywords: build rc glider astro blaster

Hello Everyone:
    How do I cut the piece of 1/16 inch piano wire with special tool because
I can't cut it with the wire cutter and its metal is too strong? Thanks
for information? Does anyone have building techique tools for that
rocket glider?

    Another problem with the wing, I glue on foam with CA glue and it
ate foam like acid! How do I repair foam? Where can I get my
foam metarials like that? 

    I am new to wood/foam models and am beginner to RC gliders but I am
advanced modelers to Estes regular rockets.

-- Tim Stark

-- 
Timothy Stark               Internet: tstark@netcom.com
837 North Van Dorn St       GENIE: T.STARK1
Alexandria, Va. 22304-2723  TDD Phone Number: (703) 212-9731
"Washington, DC is the most deaf population!! -- Gallaudet University"
From: cdt@sw.stratus.com (C. D. Tavares)
Newsgroups: rec.models.rockets
Subject: Re: Sanding Sealer vs Balsa Filler
Keywords: What's the difference?
Date: 17 Aug 92 21:30:24 GMT
Organization: Stratus Computer, Inc.

In article <1992Aug14.052353.27373@ennews.eas.asu.edu>, elder@enuxha.eas.asu.edu (Greg Elder) writes:
> I've always used Pactra Sanding Sealer for finishing the balsa parts of
> my rockets.  While buying a new bottle at the hobby store today, I
> noticed that Pactra also sells something called Balsa Filler.  It appears
> much whiter and thinner than their sanding sealer.  What's the main
> difference between the two?  Do they both serve the same purpose?  

One has lots of solids and not enough dope to glue it down with, and the
other lass less solids and thicker dope.  That's my experience, anyway.
I've never met a rocketeer who had any use for Balsa Filler.

> I've
> looked at the FAQ but haven't seen any mention of one versus the other as
> far as these specific products are concerned.  Thanks.

Probably because most of us are sick of both of them!  I use one-coat
fillers exclusively now and I'm a much happier camper.
-- 

cdt@pdp.sw.stratus.com      --If you believe that I speak for my company,
OR cdt@vos.stratus.com        write today for my special Investors' Packet...
From: jkonecn@andy.bgsu.edu (Joe Konecny)
Newsgroups: rec.models.rockets
Subject: Astrocam
Keywords: astrocam
Date: 14 Aug 92 18:50:10 GMT
Article-I.D.: andy.BszLnn.MC3
Organization: Bowling Green State University B.G., Oh.


Estes doesn't appear to make the Astrocam anymore and I would like one.  
I've heard that the pictures are low quality but I need to start somewhere.
Does anyone have one (in good condition) that they want to sell?  The Astro-
cam wasn't in Estes cat. but they did make reference to it saying you could 
use it as a payload.  How about a telephone number for Estes?

 Also, has anyone tried out that new RC controlled rocket glider?  It says it
cost $75, does that include the controller?  Hopefully this kit is complete
for that price.
From: paul@taniwha.UUCP (Paul Campbell)
Newsgroups: rec.models.rockets
Subject: Re: HPR thoughts & questions...
Date: 19 Aug 92 18:13:07 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: Taniwha Systems Design

In article <19735@plains.NoDak.edu> enders@bolshoi.uucp writes:
>Paul Campbell writes
 
>) I saw someone fly an ISP G300 at BlackRock last month .... this puppy gives
 
>     YOW!!!  Now *that* sounds like fun!  Sort of like the G equivalent of a 
>B14! :-)  Nothing like a fast burner to kick something into the air right 

I did forget to mention that the G300 is a plugged motor - it has NO delay
train/ejection charge - you have to provide your own recovery system such
as timed thermalite.

Dave flew it again at LDRS this week - it went just as well - but those G300s
are hard to come by - Aerotech only made a limited number as a one time
special ....

LDRS/BALLS was really hot! (in many ways) we are going to write a group
write-up for r.m.r, if you were there and didn't connect and want to contribute
mail me. High-light of the week happened at sundown on the last day with the
sucessfull launch of a 30ft 800lb rocket (1N, 5Ls and 9 Ks I think, with a
J415 as an ejection charge) WOW!!

	Paul Campbell

-- 
Paul Campbell    UUCP: ..!mtxinu!taniwha!paul     AppleLink: CAMPBELL.P

	90's literacy - "Um, Curly, Moe, and ... no wait let
			 me guess .... oh I remember - Dan"
Newsgroups: rec.models.rockets
From: jsvrc@rc.rit.edu (J A Stephen Viggiano)
Subject: Re: Ignition Systems
Keywords: ignition GSE launcher relay continuity
Organization: RIT Research Corp
Distribution: na
Date: Tue, 18 Aug 1992 18:40:50 GMT

In article <1992Aug17.183219.28760@aio.jsc.nasa.gov> hack@aio.jsc.nasa.gov (Edmund Hack) writes:
>I am looking at building my own ignition system for both Model Rocket
>and HPR use.  I have plans from a local Tripoli member for a relay-based
>system. . . .

Relays are okay, but transistors are better. Why not go solid state?

>My question is making the continuity check safe for flashbulbs and
>electric matches.  The circuit that I have shows a Radio Shack LED in
>series with a 1k ohm resistor.  This gives a current of about 12 ma
>with a 12v battery. An LED will require about 10ma to light from what I 
>can glean from data books.
>
>Any suggestions?

Again, my suggestion is to use a transistor, this one for the continuity check.
I've made several transistorized ignition systems, but haven't tried to make
one "flashbulb / electric match" safe. So *this* recommendation is sort
of second-hand. But I imagine that's how it's done.

John Viggiano, jsvrc@rc.rit.edu
NAR 25615
From: cdt@sw.stratus.com (C. D. Tavares)
Newsgroups: rec.models.rockets
Subject: Re: New AmSpam Editor?
Date: 21 Aug 92 23:47:30 GMT
Organization: Stratus Computer, Inc.

In article <1992Aug21.201857.28745@med.umich.edu>, Roger.Wilfong@umich.edu (A. Roger Wilfong) writes:
> In article <ceZDYJq00WB2Mqh4ca@andrew.cmu.edu> Lawrence Curcio
> <lc2b+@andrew.cmu.edu> writes:
> >There was a clarification of AMSPAM policy on submissions a couple of
> >years back. It was made clear that you give up rights on everything you
> >send. That is true of no other magazine that I know of. There is no
> >offer of SASE returns in AMSPAM. Basically, if you submit it there, you
> >can submit it nowhere else. If that were true of other magazines, witers
> >could not make a living. 
> >
> >I would call these bugs/features of AMSPAM serious. Sorry.
> >
> >-Larry
> 
> Not being a prolific author, I can only relay the comments of some one who is.
> 
> Peter Alway has purposely NOT submitted articles to AMSPAM because of the
> copyright situation.  At the last MASCON, Peter raised the issue at Mark
> Bundick's NAR trustee meeting, and HUVARS has raised the issue in the 'needs
> fixin'.  To my knowledge, no one has ever answered the comments.  I know ans
> section advisor, I never heard anything from the needs fixin, Peter has never
> said anything at our club meetings.

Then it's high time they got answered.  Look for an answer within a couple
of (working) days.
-- 

cdt@pdp.sw.stratus.com      --If you believe that I speak for my company,
OR cdt@vos.stratus.com        write today for my special Investors' Packet...
Newsgroups: rec.models.rockets
From: soc1070                         
Subject: Glider Wings & Airfoils
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41    
Organization: University of Minnesota CIS
Date: Wed, 19 Aug 1992 20:25:00 GMT

If I remember my basic aerodynamics correctly, you can get lift by
creating an angle-of-attack thats positive (i.e. forward edge of
the wing is always above trailing edge), and have no airfoil 
whatsoever. This is how your basic 25 cent drug-store balsa glider
operates (as well as the Quest Aurora and various Estes boost
gliders of days gone by). The trade off is drag.

The angle of attack is normally created by using elevators on the
horz stabalizer (the tail), but the draw back is that the tail assembly
is not providing any additional lift - just the opposite.

Ultimatly, the model is simpler to construct, but not as high a performer.

Additional stability is added by using wing dihedrial, where the
wing tip is above the root (making a v-shape in front view) from 5 to
about 15 degrees (Ed LaCroix at Apogee Components likes *a lot* of
dihedrial...).

I perfer this method, actually. I'm not a diehard competitor and
gliders like this are still a lot of fun and give good glides.

Tim Harincar			"Always listen to experts.			
Central Minnesota 		They'll tell you what can't
Association of Rocketry		be done and why. Then do it."
soc1070@vx.acs.umn.edu			-Lazarus Long
Newsgroups: rec.models.rockets
From: Jim Cook <J.Cook@ENS.Prime.COM>
Subject: Re: Where did my rocket go??
Reply-To: <J.Cook@ENS.Prime.COM>
Organization: Prime Computer, Inc.
Date: Tue, 18 Aug 1992 22:37:22 GMT

In article <1992Aug18.151225.2847@murdoch.acc.Virginia.EDU>
rbs@cyclops.micr.Virginia.EDU (Robert B. Sisk) writes:

>What about the "Estes" G motors?  Any opinions/facts?  Is Estes "making"
>and/or going to be "making" E and F motors?  How about a little more
>info?

Estes did demonstrate some of their composite motors at NARAM-34.
Mary Roberts of Estes said although they had the correct propellant
formulations, they were not the final casings, etc.

Rick Zarecki of Tripoli looked at one (not all) of the "interim" casing
they used and said it was a Vulcan casing (I didn't see and don't have the
knowledge to express an opinion on this).

I don't remember any official promised date for their release.

Jim
From: cdt@sw.stratus.com (C. D. Tavares)
Newsgroups: rec.models.rockets
Subject: Re: More DOT Info (3)
Date: 21 Aug 92 20:23:12 GMT
Organization: Stratus Computer, Inc.

In article <10490014@hpfcmgw.FC.HP.COM>, bo@hpfcmgw.FC.HP.COM (Bo Viger) writes:
> I've ordered and received a number of rocket motor orders via Parcel Post. I
> only do this when the distributor is close (like High Sierra) so as not to
> excessively delay arrival. Parcel Post does not have the $5 HazMat charge for
> Class C products like UPS does. These boxes have arrived clearly labeled as
> containing flammable solids (red & white striped label). 

This is correct.  You can ship up to 25 pounds of "Flammable Solids" by
Parcel Post, which goes strictly by ground.

> Perhaps UPS is seeing fewer shipments due to the competition from Parcel Post?

Not at Estes, at any rate.
-- 

cdt@pdp.sw.stratus.com      --If you believe that I speak for my company,
OR cdt@vos.stratus.com        write today for my special Investors' Packet...
Newsgroups: rec.models.rockets
From: soc1070                         
Subject: Micro Video
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41    
Organization: University of Minnesota CIS
Date: Thu, 20 Aug 1992 16:34:00 GMT

This is the second time I'm sending this, so if it shows up twice forgive
me....

I was in the local Target last night flipping through the new issue
of Popular Science when this item caught my eye. In the new products
section was a *micro* video camera/transmitter - 1.3 OUNCES and not
more than two inches square. In other words, ideal for a model/HP
rocket. (the blurb specifically mentions r/c aircraft as one intended
application).

Other advantages to this little gem (in addition to being able to 
loft it with a D) would be 1) if it prangs you are to out the cost of
the receiver/recorder mechanics; 2) since it transmits in real time,
you can get that prang an video; 3) the whole setup is *much* cheaper
the a current super-8 video camera. The camera is model PC-3 and lists
for $190, and the receiver lists for $135.

The company is SuperCircuits in Austin, TX, phone is 512-335-9777. I called
and they are mailing me a catalog.

Tim Harincar			"Always listen to experts.			
Central Minnesota 		They'll tell you what can't
Association of Rocketry		be done and why. Then do it."
soc1070@vx.acs.umn.edu			-Lazarus Long
From: J.Cook@ENS.Prime.COM (Jim Cook)
Newsgroups: rec.models.rockets
Subject: Re: Estes composites (was Where did my rocket go??)
Date: 19 Aug 92 20:47:01 GMT
Article-I.D.: primerd.1992Aug19.204701.16176
Reply-To: <J.Cook@ENS.Prime.COM>
Organization: Prime Computer, Inc.

In article <Bt8x8M.G9v@usenet.ucs.indiana.edu> ntaib@silver.ucs.indiana.edu
(Iskandar Taib) writes:
>>
>Just an aside...
>
>If the Eastern Europeans bring their own motors how does one check
>to see whether they conform to impulse class limits for competition? 
>Or is there simply a weight rule for the FAI classes? There isn't a 
>Russian equivalent of Estes is there? Do the competitors build their
>own motors?
>
>I wonder if they static test a random sampling of everyones' motors
>to make sure they aren't cheating...

Jack Kane of NAR S&T fame is going to the Internats in Florida to test the
motors of everyone who brings them.  They hold up their bag and Jack grabs
one at random.  

The aim is to certify the engine as being in a particular class.  The "random
grab" is to reduce the likelihood that someone has a batch with intentional
"hot" engines thrown in.

Jim
From: cdt@sw.stratus.com (C. D. Tavares)
Newsgroups: rec.models.rockets
Subject: Re: Estes composites (was Where did my rocket go??)
Date: 19 Aug 92 21:47:40 GMT
Organization: Stratus Computer, Inc.

In article <Bt8x8M.G9v@usenet.ucs.indiana.edu>, ntaib@silver.ucs.indiana.edu (Iskandar Taib) writes:

> If the Eastern Europeans bring their own motors how does one check
> to see whether they conform to impulse class limits for competition? 
> I wonder if they static test a random sampling of everyones' motors
> to make sure they aren't cheating...

All engines of a given type are thrown into a bag and marked.  The bag
is given to a tester before the meet (in this case, Jack Kane of S&T).
Some small number of engines is then extracted at random and tested.
If they do not pass, the bag is discarded.  If they do pass, the bag is
given to the judges, who then hand out engines to competitors on the
flight line.  This procedure is done for each team (country) separately
(i.e., each team has their own bags of engines to use).

> There isn't a Russian equivalent of Estes is there? 

There is NO other equivalent to Estes!  But no, not the way you mean.

> Do the competitors build their own motors?

If they do, they are violating the rules.  I suspect many countries
just have "small-volume professional" manufacturers like Vulcan.


-- 

cdt@pdp.sw.stratus.com      --If you believe that I speak for my company,
OR cdt@vos.stratus.com        write today for my special Investors' Packet...
From: cdt@sw.stratus.com (C. D. Tavares)
Newsgroups: rec.models.rockets
Subject: Re: DOT/Reloads
Date: 17 Aug 92 20:49:43 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: Stratus Computer, Inc.

In article <1992Aug6.165138.3200@cbfsb.cb.att.com>, hrbob@cbnewsb.cb.att.com (robert.e.wiersbe) writes:
> Ross Dutton of Magnum Industries was recently visisted by a DOT
> representative (I'm not exactly sure what that means) and was
> instructed that he could not ship reloads because they were
> 'prohibited' substances.  That's reloads period - B->F or G and up.
> 
> Pat's statement may be an accurate reflection of the 'official' CPSC
> and DOT positions; however, I'm sure he remembers that NARAM-29 and 30
> were shut down by local officials who were singing (albeit temporarily)
> out of the wrong hymnal.  This entire flap may be the result of similar
> misunderstandings.

The confusion here was because of the use of the term "banned hazardous
substance" by the original poster, along with a specific reference to the
CPSC.  "Banned hazardous substance" is CPSC lingo only.  

Yes, there IS a problem with DOT, where DOT has accused AeroTech 
distributors of shipping "dangerous unclassified materials" or some other 
DOT-specific lingo (I have the term at home but I don't remember it).

However, the original poster was explicitly referring to CPSC, which is
why Pat replied that the CPSC had not ruled on engines over G at all.
-- 

cdt@pdp.sw.stratus.com      --If you believe that I speak for my company,
OR cdt@vos.stratus.com        write today for my special Investors' Packet...
Newsgroups: rec.models.rockets