From: payner@netcom.com (Rich Payne)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.apple2
Subject: Re: The Perennial Piracy Debate (was Re: Bilestoad)
Date: 23 Jul 92 15:13:17 GMT
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services (408 241-9760 guest)

In article <bazyar.711852801@teal> bazyar@teal.csn.org (Jawaid Bazyar) writes:
>payner@netcom.com (Rich Payne) writes:
>
>>In article <1992Jul21.215710.12912@sunb10.cs.uiuc.edu> ejohnson@sparc3.cs.uiuc.edu (Eric E Johnson) writes:
>>>In <h5dmpaj.payner@netcom.com> payner@netcom.com (Rich Payne) writes:
>>>
>>>>You deleted the text that I was responding to. The publisher did not pay
>>>>the author for the copies of bilestoad that it sold. THIS is why he has
>>>>not written any more games for the A//. This is not a piracy issue.
>>>
>>>But it is.  If the game would have not been pirated, much more money
>>>would have been made for DataMost [I think that they are the ones who
>>>published Bilestoad] and they might have stayed in business.
>>>Regardless, someone lost money by a lot of piracy.  
>
>>I do not believe that DataMost was in financial trouble when the Bilestoad
>>came out. Your assumption that piracy was a major cause is probably
>>wrong, but untestable, and therefore, not a meaningfull argument. The
>>lost profits argument -assumes- that everyone who pirates a program could
>>afford to buy is (no lost profits otherwise). I suspect that most of the
>>time, this is not the case. 
>
>  Oh Rich, you are so wrong.
>  Pirates can afford huge hard drives (200MB and up).
>  Pirates can afford $700 USRobotics HST Modems.
>  Pirates can afford long distance phone bills.
>  Pirates can damned well affort to buy a game now and then.
>  You can justify if you wish, but piracy is a _crime_ punishable by
>a $10,000 fine and up to *TEN* years in prison.  Think about that
>before you leap off and say that piracy doesn't hurt anyone.

Wow, you know each and every pirate personally and can verify this?
Do they also drive Mercedies? You need to learn to read. 

I am saying nothing at all about piracy, period. You are so wrong.
What I said that there were some problems with the "lost profits"
argument. This is all that I said. The rest you made up so that you
could attack the issue. You would seem to have a personal problem here.
 
>> And I suspect that the claimed lost profits
>>exceed the expendable cash of the American public by an order of magnitude.
>>Note, I am not defending piracy, but I am attacking the lost profits
>>argument.
>
>  The lost profits argument is valid.  It's like saying, well, these
>people now have this software.  If they have it on their computer, and
>use it, that's lost profits to the company whether the jackass pirate
>had the money to pay for it or not.

I need to check some numbers, but I bet that the claimed lost profits
exceed the expendable income of America. If this is the case, the argument
cannot be valid.
 
>>None of which has any bearing on the fact that the PUBLISHER screwed the
>>programs authur, they did not pay for the copies that they sold. Or do you
>>call this piracy also?
>
>  This is downright low, and I'm not defending DataMost.  I'm attacking
>your laxidaisical attitude towards one of the largest criminal operations
>happening today.

You need to learn to read dude, and stop making things up.
 
>>The problems start when "an incredible number" -becomes- a number, and
>>the number is used as a fact, and a basis for huge lost profits.
>
>  But it _IS_, Rich.  If all those people really loved that game, and
>weren't scum-sucking pirate filth, they'd have paid for it.  And guess
>what?  There'd have been a Bilestoad II, and other games by that 
>author.  But, because 1) the publisher screwed over the author, and 2)
>because noone paid for the game, the author left the II market.

Supposition and loaded language presented as fact. You present a weak
argument. And it is not true that "noone paid for the game". Unless you
are calling the author a liar as well, which at this point would not
surprise me.
 
>  I tell you what, Rich.  You try being a software publisher sometime.
>Piracy will become _very_ important you you when every illegal copy
>means someone reaching into your pocket and stealing $20. Piracy is
>not a game, piracy is not a 'ignore it and it will go away' problem,
>piracy is a *crime* against those who are trying to keep the Apple IIgs
>alive.

And it is also your issue, not mine. If you want to talk about the lost
profits argument, I will be glad to. As for the rest, you go non-linear,
and seem to think that I said and implied tons of stuff that I absolutely
did not say or imply. You even went as far as to edit out the line where
I said that I am not defending piracy, just attacking the lost-profits
argument. And I did not mean in general, but as it is being used by the
software industry, specifically, and only.

Is this really Jawaid? This is the first time I have seen you rant. And
it is really sad that you went so far beyond what I had said to do so.

Take it easy... 
 
>-- 
> Jawaid Bazyar              |   Ask me about the GNO Multitasking Environment
> Procyon, Inc.              |   for the Apple IIgs!   
> bazyar@cs.uiuc.edu         |   P.O Box 620334
> --Apple II Forever!--      |   Littleton, CO 80162-0334   (303) 933-4649

Rich

payner@netcom.com