From: ckincy@cs.umr.edu (Charles Kincy)
Subject: Re: Essay Time for Felix  (Was: Re: God Conference on Player's Rights)
Date: Sat, 23 Jan 1993 16:05:53 GMT
Organization: University of Missouri - Rolla, Rolla, MO

In article <C1B6w1.EDv@ais.org> jgm@ais.org (jim miller) writes:
>
>ckincy@cs.umr.edu (Charles Kincy) writes:
>
>>In article <C1Atys.BvE@ais.org> jgm@ais.org (jim miller) writes:
>
>[rights are tempered with responsibility]
>
>Totally agreed.
>And, conversely, which party has the greatest potential for neglect
>of responsibility?  Which party reiterates over and over on a

The users.  After all, there are typically more users than administrators.
And, who is it that makes the administrators cranky?  The users!

>public exchange that it indeed has no responsibility to the user,
>their services are provided for free, that if you don't like
>how it acts, you can go somewhere else?  With this kind of
>atmosphere, why is it surprising to you that many people feel
>it's time to get us all to recognize that people on both ends
>are humans with feelings?

A competent administrator will realize this.  What, do you want
to make it a Federal law or something? 

>>There are no rights without responsibilities, Mr. Miller.  Any
>>person schooled in ethics knows this.
>
>Who holds most of the power in the situation?

The users.  Without the users a mud is nothing.  If an administrator
is a weenie, the users leave and go somewhere else.  There is strength
in numbers, you know.

>>And don't call me "son".  I don't have 23 of your chromosomes, and 
>>your condescension is disgusting.
>
>But you do deign to stereotype me as a "bleeding-heart liberal"
>in your own, condescending manner.  And you so skillfully express
>derision for any theoretical discussion that would even suggest
>administrators are capable of acting incorrectly.

Ok, I'll say it.  Administrators are capable of acting incorrectly.
However, their stupidity will be its own punishment.  No need to
codify a "bill of players' rights".

And, if you don't like me calling you a bleeding-heart liberal,
well, too bad, I have a habit of calling it as I see it.  And,
I still don't have 23 of your chromosomes, so....

>>Look, if you don't like a way a god/wizard runs a mud, you can vote
>>with your feet.  Otherwise, you will play it.  Your rights on a mud
>>number two:  you have the right to connect and obey the rules of the
>>mud, whatever they may be.  If you don't agree, you have the right
>>to go elsewhere.  If you think that there aren't any muds that meet
>>your specifications, then you create your own.  
>>
>>This is how the game works, Mr. Miller.  
>
>Mud administrators have no responsibility, yes yes yes.

Yah, ok, maybe they do have the responsibility, but the abrogation
of it brings its own penalty.  No one asked for your interference
in the process.

>>Oh, yah, what about a mud-owner's right not to be told what to do
>>by a group of net.bleeding.heart.liberals?
>
>Using your reasoning, I would suggest that said mud-owner exercise
>his freedom to ignore the bleeding hearts and not read news.

Why not, don't we all have the "right" to express our opinion here?
Actually, if you think about it, you don't even have the right to
post here.  If your sysadmin gets a bug up his/her ass, then you
lose your posting privs.  Rights, schmights.

>And btw, my original article in this thread was a challenge to
>Felix to follow up on some of his chains of reasoning which
>have become quite involved over a long series of articles, not
>an invitation for you to take us back to square one with
>your indignant sputtering.  The Subject line often holds
>valuable clues, read it.

Then why did you respond to me, and save this for the *second*
response?  Sounds like someone's getting a *wee* bit frustrated.
Good.  Now you know how we group readers with an exaggerated
sense of reality feel.

cpk

>-- 
>"Consider a lion, sneaking up to rip an innocent gazelle into shreds.  Is
>this morally wrong, should the gazelle get a fighting chance, should we
>step in and declare that gazelles have rights too?  Of course not."
>                      - Felix, on why mud users don't have rights

Nice bit of context-hacking, BTW.  You'd make a good tabloid journalist.

-- 
"The WHITE ZONE is for loading and unloading only.  If you gotta load or un-
load, go to the WHITE ZONE.  You'll love it.  It's a way of life!" --Zappa

Technology always seems to keep one step ahead of human wisdom.