From: jars@milton.u.washington.edu (Juan Rodriguez-Sero)
Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast,misc.headlines,talk.politics.misc,alt.conspiracy,alt.censorship
Subject: Re: BACK TO LIMBAUGH'S SECRET NONAGENDA
Date: 12 Aug 92 16:50:48 GMT
Article-I.D.: u.1992Aug12.165048.21097
Organization: University of Washington, Seattle

In article <EGGERTJ.92Aug11131118@moses.atc.ll.mit.edu> eggertj@atc.ll.mit.edu writes:
>You should learn proper attribution techniques.

Maybe that is so; if that is the case (which you have not proved), I
will humbly try to learn.

>In article <1992Aug11.143055.17242@u.washington.edu> jars@milton.u.washington.edu (Juan Rodriguez-Sero) writes:
>>   >What is misleading is your list.  (It is not my list at all, I don't
>>   >know why you call it that.) 
>>
>>   I called that list "your list" because it was included in a message
>>   you quoted, after which you commented that "victims of all those ac-
>>   tions by Israeli terrorists can be found in Lebanon". You choose to
>>   make the original comment. 

>No, I did not.  That comment was made in article <24615@castle.ed.ac.uk
>by egpv29@castle.ed.ac.uk (JHenderson).

Yes, you did; JHenderson enunciated a list; you commented that "the vic-
tims of such actions by Israelis can be found in Lebanon." That is the
comment of your I found (and still find) unacceptable

>>   >Now you add the condition that the Israeli atrocities be traceable to
>>   >the Israeli government.  That condition obviously can not apply to the
>>   >Palestinian case, because they have no government per se.
>>
>>   I would accept the PLO, for this purpose, as equivalente to a govern-
>>   ment; give a list of all the actions on that list that have been re-
>>   pudiated and condemned by the PLO.
>>
>>   >A further example of the dishonesty of your approach is the
>>   >over-restrictive phrase "airliners downed by the Israelis in Lebanon".
>>
>>   Again, the phrase was in the original list. And, by the way, I under-
>>   stood "airliners downed" to mean with passengers in them.
>
>You repeatedly adhere to the list, which I argue is intellectually
>dishonest in the first place.

OK, I'll agree to that: The list (the one first published by JHenderson,
which you implicitly accepted when you commented on it without complaint)
is definitely dishonest.  Thank you for granting my point.

And, by the way, you repeatedly refuse to take notice of my points;
for example, that the PLO (seen by many as "legitimate representative
of the Palestinian people") has only very seldom criticized any atro-
city on their side, even in the most insincere and purely pro-forma
ways possible.

>You do not address the dishonesty of your approach.

What the dishonesty of YOUR OWN approach, Germy?

>Suppose the Israeli athletes had all gotten away in Munich '72, would
>you claim that it was not terrorism after all?
>A universal definition of terrorism is admittedly difficult to
>provide ... perhaps you could come up with a better one.

Thank you for asking an interesting question; for me (and many others)
terrorism is a tactic aimed primarily at instilling terror, that is, a
dire, overpowering fear (all this shamelessly lifted from Webster's
dictionary).  Terrorism can be a legitimate military tactic, and even a
humane one (it is more humane to incapacitate people by scaring them 
han, for example, by shooting them dead).

In everyday language, and in circles who whould know better, words like
"terrorism" and "terrorist" are often used in a hooopelessly confused
way.  Many violent actions, even actions againg unarmed civilians, are
not really "terrorism." Youe example of Munich in 1972 is a good one.

"Actions" like the murders at Munich in 1972 are not, properly, terror-
istic; they are, really, genocidal. They stem from the notion of "total
war" propounded by Adolf Hitler; from its viewpoint, any member of the
"enemy group" is fair game; the objective is not to scare them, but
rather to eliminate them.  That is why schoolchildren, or seniors like
Klinghofer, are seen as "targets" as legitimate as any soldier in a
combat operation.  "Terrorist" is too good a name for that kind of or-
ganization, or for their members.


Juan Antonio Rodriguez-Sero     |He who is attached to things will suffer much;
jars@u.washington.edu           |He who saves will suffer heavy loss;
School of Oceanography,  WB - 10|A contented man is never disappointed.
University of Washington        |He who knows when to stop 
(206) 543 - 7003 (work)         |does not find himself in trouble
                                |                             Lao Dzu
Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast