HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: lienhard@daydreamer.metaphor.com (Steve Lienhard)
Newsgroups: alt.homosexual
Subject: Re: Gays in the Military
Date: 10 Nov 92 16:26:07 GMT
Organization: Metaphor Computer Systems, Mountain View, CA

>1. Not afraid of admitting openly they are gay, and
>2. More interested in showing they are better known as engineers,
>miners, football players, lawyers, whatever rather than gay. When I
>was at UMass I knew several gays and lesbians, some in the militanty
>groups, some just going about their lives. I respected those people
>just doing their thing but keeping it private, where it should be.

You were sounding like the voice of reason, then the image was shattered
with that terrible cliche "I respected those people just doing their
thing but keeping it private, where it should be."

If gays have to keep their sexuality private, then heteros should too.
This means that heteros must not place a photo of their spouse on their
desk, nor should they wear a wedding ring (gays still cannot legally get
married).  They should not identify the sex of their hot date last night,
nor should anyone listening infer that it was a member of the opposite sex
(remember, sexual orientation is a private thing, no?)  Isn't this
absurd?  Of course it is.  Why should gays keep their sexuality
private when straights do not?
Newsgroups: alt.homosexual,alt.sex.homosexual
From: cddukes@c00804-247dan.eos.ncsu.edu (PakRat's Anonymous)
Subject: Re: Colorado Amendment 2
Organization: North Carolina State University, Project Eos
Distribution: na
Date: Fri, 6 Nov 1992 03:19:40 GMT

In article <1992Nov6.004142.378@mercury.cair.du.edu> elesatz@diana.cair.du.edu (Eric LeSatz) writes:
>Ain't marriage defined as the joining of man and woman? Sure, there
>ought to be some kind of bonding, but watever you want to call it it
>ain't marriage!

Whatever the definition is, marriage as accepted by law for heterosexual
couples gives special rights including special visitation rights during
the event of injury, or extreme illness, the ability to file a joint
tax return.  A means that as simple as and gives the rights of the 
legal marriages available to straight couples should be available, 
whether the hets decide to call it marriage or not.
>
>Furthermore, I would like to ask this question...If homosexuals are
>being discriminated against then how come the median income for the
>group is far ABOVE that for heterosexual males. When we enacted job
>rights for women and minorities it was because it was quite clear that
>they were being discriminated against since they were making far less
>than the average.

You are comparing apples and orangutangs.  Take the median income of
a segment of the population with the same proportions of gender and
education levels.  I suspect that the statistics for the median population
in general contains statistics for those folks that are still in high
school.  There is also the matter that I have met very few gays and
lesbians who didn't generally have a college education, or were working
on one.  I don't believe that they are smarter... but I do suspect 
that it is harder for a less educated person to admit that they are
homosexual to themselves and others.  Also those that employee the
less educated have less to loose should they fire and employee and
as such the employee may be less inclined to reveal anything that
could endanger their employment.
(Here's the gist... It's harder to find a systems programmer than
a burger flipper, or grocery store manager.  As such the systems 
programmer has less fear of being fired because it costs more for
the job position to be filled again, unlike the burger flipper or
grocery store manager.  As such the burger flipper are less likely
to do anything that might endanger their job)

Chris "the PakRat" Dukes______________________________cddukes@eos.ncsu.edu
THIS DOCUMENT IS UN-, ANTI- AND OTHERWISE NOT-COPYRIGHTED 1992. As Robert
McElwaine says, "UN-altered REPRODUCTION and DISSEMINATION of this IMPORTANT
Information is ENCOURAGED", nay DEMANDED!
PGP key available upon request
Newsgroups: alt.homosexual
From: eknipp@lobo.rmhs.colorado.edu (Ethan R Knipp)
Subject: Re: Want to meet a gay person
Date: Mon, 09 Nov 1992 17:47:12 GMT
Organization: Rocky Mountain High School, Fort Collins, CO

In article <1992Nov06.155121.5128@donau.et.tudelft.nl> thomas@duteca.et.tudelft.nl (Thomas Okken) writes:
>From article <1992Nov05.153429.24034@lobo.rmhs.colorado.edu>, by eknipp@lobo.rmhs.colorado.edu (Ethan R Knipp):
>> Maybe het women feel more secure around gay men- because gay men won't rape a 
[Bunch of my stuff. . .]
>
>Talk about prejudice! How do you suppose I (a well-adjusted bi man) feel
>when I smile at a woman, and her untl{-then-friendly expression turns
>into one of distrust or even outright loathing? If you keep claiming men are
>rapists, how do you expect men to get *friendly* sex anymore?
>Sure, there are men who would force themselves onto women. There are also
>men who kill. Do not judge all men who *like* women by those maladjusted
>problem cases, please!
>
Ummm. . .Thomas?  I think that now would be a good time to point out that I am 
a *heterosexual* man.  I still maintain that a good majority of het men are 
assholes.

> - Thomas (thomas%knoware.ruu.nl@accucx.cc.ruu.nl)
Ethan. . .

-- 
==============================================================================
Ethan Knipp                   []         ***PANIC NOW-AVOID THE RUSH***
The Unbeliever                []
                              []   "It is not I who am crazy, it is I who am
Newsgroups: alt.homosexual,alt.sex.homosexual
Subject: Re: Colorado Amendment 2
From: ti@bazooka.amb.org (Ti Kan)
Date: 6 Nov 92 09:03:40 GMT
Reply-To: ti@bazooka.UUCP (Ti Kan)
Followup-To: alt.homosexual
Distribution: na
Organization: AMB Research Labs, Sunnyvale, CA.

In article <1992Nov5.205708.28426@mercury.cair.du.edu> elesatz@diana.cair.du.edu (Eric LeSatz) writes:
>
>[... bigoted spewage deleted ...]
>
>Eric
>______________________________________________________________________________
>|__Eric LeSatz_________________[]{}__I've got seven in the clip and one______|
>|__elesatz@diana.cair.du.edu___[]{}__in the chamber. Will that be enough??___|
>|__lesatz@phakt.usc.edu________[]{}__If it ain't, I'm in BIG trouble!!_______|
>|______________________________[]{}__________________________________________|

Eric,

Reading what you wrote makes my blood boil.

Your article seems to suggest that there exists a level playing
field in this society between the straight and the lesbian/gay (i.e.,
an equality already exists).  I don't understand how you get that
impression but it couldn't be farther from the truth.  You simply
have no idea the kind of discrimination gays/lesbians face!

To move toward a more equal and fair society we need to enact
laws to protect and guarantee equal rights for all.  These include
women, men, people of all races, cultures, backgrounds, as well
as sexual orientation.

The passage of the Colorado anti-gay Proposition is a major
setback in our movement toward equality and freedom, and a
shamful reflection upon the ignorance and unfounded hatred that
haunts us everyday.

-Ti
-- 
    ///  Ti Kan                vorsprung durch technik
   ///   AMB Research Laboratories, Sunnyvale, CA. USA
  ///    ti@amb.org
 //////  ...!{decwrl,synopsys,tandem,tsoft,ultra}!sgiblab!bazooka!ti
///      ...!{uunet,sun,apple,sco}!altos!bazooka!ti
Newsgroups: alt.homosexual
From: mxc1059@usl.edu (Carroll Matthew)
Subject: WHERE ARE YOU DUDE??
Organization: University of Southwestern Louisiana
Date: Mon, 9 Nov 1992 16:30:10 GMT

Hello out there!!


I'm looking for a friend of mine whom I have not gotten e-mail from in a while.

You sent me the camp stories and other great stories.  Was your name Ken or Steve or what?  Sorry dude I dont remember.  I lost all my files and your e-mail address was in one of them.  PLEASE write back to me  PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE!!!!!


Matthew Carroll
From: jaeger@uoneuro.uoregon.edu (Rose Jaeger)
Newsgroups: alt.homosexual
Subject: hello
Keywords: lesbians
Date: 13 Nov 92 01:10:28 GMT
Organization: Institute of Neuroscience, University of Oregon

This is just a hello to see if I can find some lesbians out there to write 
to.  My partner and I live in rural Oregon and want to here from the rest of 
the world.

Lesbians in Oregon,
Newsgroups: alt.homosexual
From: monaj@tellus.unik.no (Mona Jakobsen)
Subject: Is there anyone outthere
Keywords: I wonder if there are any scandianavian homos female or male that 
Organization: Universitetsstudiene paa Kjeller (UNIK), University of Oslo, Norway
Date: Thu, 5 Nov 92 13:35:59 GMT

are active in this newsgroup

Newsgroups: alt.homosexual,alt.transgendered,alt.sex,sci.psychology
From: fischer@iesd.auc.dk (Lars Peter Fischer)
Subject: Re: Why?
Organization: Mathematics and Computer Science, Aalborg University
Date: 12 Nov 92 05:26:24


>>>>> "Thomas" == Thomas Okken (thomas@duteca.et.tudelft.nl)

Thomas> It is not necessary to go into Freud's theories: they are all
Thomas> only based on conjecture anyway, and I will replace them with
Thomas> a far simpler model, that has at least as much explanatory
Thomas> power as Freud's:

You will replace the theories of Freud? My, we're getting a bit
pretentious today, aren't we?

Anyway, while some people may consider my sexuality "wrong" or
whatever, I see that as *their* problem, not mine. Please don't
victimize me, it's not going to help me any, and I don't fell like a
victim at all. And while I appreciate that you realize that the
society has some problems with diversity, I believe change start in
the individual. Instead of telling me what to "put up with", start by
avoiding calling me or my behavior "abnormal".

Thank you.

/Lars
--
Lars Fischer, fischer@iesd.auc.dk | It takes an uncommon mind to think of
CS Dept., Aalborg Univ., DENMARK. | these things.  -- Calvin
Newsgroups: alt.homosexual
From: masterov@filter.ecn.purdue.edu (Michael Masterov)
Subject: Re: Gays in the Military
Organization: Purdue University Engineering Computer Network
Date: Thu, 12 Nov 1992 02:33:07 GMT

**I'm afraid I lost the attribution here, but you guys know who you are**


>The fact that homosexuals are not allowed in the military is, in my mind, not
>one of homophobia, but of uncertainity. At this point in time there is no
>feasable way to accomodate living quarters ans social needs of these pepole.

>I'm afraid <<<<
>that sexual activity would be the marquee for that housing unit which would
>undermine the attitude of discipline the Armed Forces represent.

>There is simply no possible way to accomodate homosexuals inthe military at
>this time. I would encourage responces so long as they are reasonable.

Why are you afraid?  This sounds a lot like homophobia to me.
You are making an assumption based on a stereotype that homosexuals
are sex maniacs that would lose control when placed in such a situation.
I find this assumption offensive.  I find your proposal to isolate
homosexuals so as to avoid any 'uncomfortableness' offensive.

I would imagine many aspects of the military are quite 
uncomfortable, but overcoming these difficulties is what military
discipline is all about.  If any lack of discipline is identified, then the
officer(s) involved should be dealt with accordingly.
**Quote ends here**


Actually, there is a simple reason why homosexuals are untenable in the
military and it is the same reason women in combat costitute a problem.

For the sake of simplicity, we can categorize all armies into fanatic
and non-fanatic types.  The fanatic types are almost exclusively composed
of people who believe, at the gut level, that death in combat is a great
thing for everyone.  They have no reservations about killing and no fear
of death, for themselves or others.  A good example, historically, was
the Spartan army.  I think we all agree that the US army does not qualify.

A non-fanatic soldier on the front line with a lover next to him/her is a
disaster!  What kind of reasonably normal human being (NOT a fanatic)
will consider ANY risk unjustified to save the person he/she loves?
No amount of discipline will handle this!

Answer this honestly:  If you are in combat and your lover is wounded,
do you leave him/her behind just because someone ordered you to?  Could
you leaver your lover to die like that?  I know I could not.

We have women in the army but not in combat, but the same method could
never be made to work for gay men.  (I'm gay, I can't go into combat...
or Who, me gay?  Either way, no way to be sure who is lying.)

There are other, less compelling reasons, but they all boil down to
being discipline problems.
Newsgroups: alt.homosexual
From: gsmith@clio.iwr.uni-heidelberg.de (Gene W. Smith)
Subject: Re: Why read this?
Organization: IWR, University of Heidelberg, Germany
Date: Fri, 13 Nov 92 17:45:28 GMT

In article <2627@cronos.metaphor.com> lienhard@daydreamer.metaphor.com
(Steve Lienhard) writes:

>Here here!! The fact that heterosexuals read this newsgroup is why
>I am more inclined to post to it rather than that OTHER newsgroup,
>alt.politics.homosexuality.

There ought to be a newsgroup in which all sexual orientations could
discuss issues related to homosexuality and where everybody is not
yelling all the time.  Why not this one?

-- 
     Gene Ward Smith/Brahms Gang/IWR/Ruprecht-Karls University 
               gsmith@kalliope.iwr.uni-heidelberg.de
From: lcrew@andromeda.rutgers.edu (Louie Crew)
Newsgroups: alt.homosexual
Subject: Re: Gays in the Military
Date: 12 Nov 92 21:33:00 GMT
Reply-To: <lcrew@andromeda.rutgers.edu>
Organization: Rutgers Univ., New Brunswick, N.J.

jleduc@casbah.acns.nwu.edu (JonPaul Leduc) writes:


>I think it is about time the gay community was defined by who they are and
>not who they sleep with.  But the thrust if the in your face gays gives a
>very shallow and one sided look at a group of people, and just feeds into
>the stereotypes.

>--Jean-Paul Leduc
>--Northwestern University

Of my 934 publications, only about 340 of them are gay.  Why is it, sugar,
that my neighbors never shout "Christian!" or "poet!" or "computer mentor!"
or "fighter for racial justice!"....or any of the half dozen other deviant 
identities that I have established?   I have a sneaking suspicion that it
is because even you want me to monitor how much I tell and to whom!  

You make me angrier than my neighbors who shout "FAGGOT!  SISSY!  QUEER!  
NIGGER-LOVER." 

If you want to care about what the world thinks, that's your privilege,
but please don't try to sell heterosexist conformity to me or to peopple I 
care about. 

 Friends are dying around me right and
left.  Talent is going to waste up and down the corridors of my campus
because people don't value lesbians and gays.  And let me but mention 
my husband qua husband and someone like you tells me I am 'very shallow
and one sided.'  I've learned two new languages since turning 45, ten years 
ago.  I've......   But you can be sure that I did not do any of that to
prove anything to you or anyone else.  I did it because I have a life, a 
gay life, and if you can't deal with that, you have a problem, a huge
problem.

Take your eyes off my balls, sweetiepie!  They are reserved for someone who
respects magic and is not afraid of fairies or wands.

Louie/Quean Lutibelle
 
-- 
  ==========================================================================
  Louie Crew, Assoc. Prof., Academic Foundations Dept., Rutgers U./NWK 07102
  lcrew@andromeda.rutgers.edu                                   201-485-4503
                            Closets are for prayer!
Newsgroups: alt.homosexual,alt.sex.homosexual
From: shore@dinah.tc.cornell.edu (Melinda Shore)
Subject: Re: Colorado Amendment 2
Organization: Cornell Theory Center
Distribution: na
Date: Fri, 6 Nov 1992 15:41:14 GMT

In article <1992Nov6.004142.378@mercury.cair.du.edu> elesatz@diana.cair.du.edu (Eric LeSatz) writes:
>Ain't marriage defined as the joining of man and woman? Sure, there
>ought to be some kind of bonding, but watever you want to call it it
>ain't marriage!

The state and religious institutions sanction committed
relationships between men and women, and grant special
privileges based on those sanctions.  That is a special
right that gay men and lesbians do not enjoy.

>Hmm...seems to me that many gays have been fired merely for the fact
>that they are homosexual. But they also receive large cash awards from
>the courts when they do. I know of one case where the guy got $5
>million...

You're thinking of the Xerox VP in San Francisco.  He is
fortunate to live in a place where his employment rights
are protected.  I know many, many gay men and lesbians
who have lost jobs because of sexual orientation.  I'm
one of them.  I don't personally know anyone who has
received any kind of settlement.  I did eventually
receive an apology, myself, but it was well after I lost
the job, and, as you know, you can't eat an apology.

>Finally I would just like to add one comment. One of my best friends
>in High School turned out to be homosexual. We still do stuff together
>and all that...to me it is no big deal. He also agrees that those
>'special' rights are not needed.

How very special.  I would agree that special rights aren't
needed, too.  Then why do straight people have rights that
gay people don't, and why haven't you been able to list any
special rights that the gay lobby is asking for?

>Furthermore, I would like to ask this question...If homosexuals are
>being discriminated against then how come the median income for the
>group is far ABOVE that for heterosexual males. 

Because the survey identified people who were secure enough
to be open about their orientation.  If you know anything
at all about social science research, you know that you
simply can't get a random sample of gay people.  And thanks
to ill-informed bigots and the hostile social climate that
allowed Amendment 2 to pass, it will continue to be
impossible to get a random sample of gay people.

Again, please list the special rights that gay people want.
--
           Hate is not a family value.  Boycott Colorado

       Melinda Shore - Cornell Theory Center - shore@tc.cornell.edu
Newsgroups: alt.homosexual
From: "ron ingelevics" <ron.ingelevics@canrem.com>
Subject: thanks!
Reply-To: "ron ingelevics" <ron.ingelevics@canrem.com>
Organization: Canada Remote Systems
Distribution: alt
Date: 10 Nov 92 18:59:20 EST

to: steve.connelly@synapse.org

Hi Steve!

I'm sorry to be using you as a test, but I was reading some of the
messages that you left on USENET and I agree whole-heartedly with what
you said.  I'm new to the USENET, so there is already one message to you
that's out there floating around... don't know if you'll get it.

Anyway, just wanted to say "Hello" and thanks for your thoughtfulness!

Ron.
--
Canada Remote Systems  - Toronto, Ontario
World's Largest PCBOARD System - 416-629-7000/629-7044
Newsgroups: alt.homosexual,alt.transgendered,alt.sex,sci.psychology
From: rolfl@ulrik.uio.no (Rolf Lindgren)
Subject: Re: Why?
Organization: Institutt for Humanistisk Informatikk, Blindern, Oslo, Norway
	<eagle.721315915@garfield.catt.ncsu.edu>
Date: Mon, 9 Nov 1992 15:02:09 GMT

In article <eagle.721315915@garfield.catt.ncsu.edu> eagle@garfield.catt.ncsu.edu (Daniel L'Hommedieu) writes:
>   hoyerr@ucs.orst.edu (Richard Hoyer) writes:
>   >If you were gay (or had even thought about how you became sexually aware) you
>   >would know that homosexuality is not discovered.  It just happens.
>
>   I did recently notice that the Bible says that "homosexual offenders
>   shall not inherit the kingdom of God."  Notice that it explicitely uses
>   the word, "offenders."  Kinda makes a heterosexual wonder if
>   homosexuality really does "just happen."

What's your point? That what the Bible says about something should be taken
seriously? 

Consider this:

	"Homosexual offenders shall not inherit the kingdom of God."
					
					|
					V

	"Offenders who are homosexual shall not inherit the kingdom of
	God."

					|
					V

	"If you are an offender, and if you are homosexual,
	then you shall not inherit the kingdom of God."

	If homosexuality is an offence, then isn't "homosexual offenders" a
	redundancy?

	How about poor heterosexual offenders like I, will I inherit the
	kingdom of God? Is Biblical love reserved for heterosexuals? 

	The Bible says that God loves all and that his love of humanity is
	infinite: are homosexuals excluded from God's concept of "all" and
	"infinity" ?

	God sure isn't a good manual writer. You can't base hypotheses on
	paragraphs from the Bible, they can mean anything. 

	Flames to /dev/null, answers to my questions to my mailbox,
	please. I'll summarise.


--
       Rolf Lindgren           |       "The opinions expressed above are
       616 Bjerke Studentheim  |        not necessarily those of anyone"
       N-0589 OSLO 5           |           rolf.lindgren@usit.uio.no
From: kburkert@andromeda.rutgers.edu (Keith Burkert)
Newsgroups: alt.homosexual
Subject: Ancient Greece - Homosexuality
Date: 10 Nov 92 18:04:22 GMT
Organization: Rutgers Univ., New Brunswick, N.J.


       I am now taking a class in the ancient world.  We have discussed many
aspects of the ancient world, including sexuality.  As I understand it, 
homosexuality was much more accepted back then than it is today.  I have 
been given the assignment to write a term paper on the subject of 
homosexuality it ancient greece.  My problem is that I havent been able to 
find many sources on the subject.  Does anyone out there have any good sources
I could turn to.  Please E-mail my anything you may have on the subject or 
sources to go to to obtain information on the subject.  Any help would be 
be greatly apperciated.  I really want to portray ancient homosexuality the 
way it was, not the way some people might interuperate it.  

Thanks for all you help in advance.

                                                        Keith
                                               - A man searching for info

"Some people know the price of everything and the value of nothing"


P.S.   Please excuse the spelling.  I hated spelling as a kid and know I 
worship my spellchecker -- The best invention since sliced bread.
From: lcrew@andromeda.rutgers.edu (Louie Crew)
Newsgroups: alt.homosexual
Subject: Re: Gays in the Military
Date: 10 Nov 92 02:04:49 GMT
Reply-To: <lcrew@andromeda.rutgers.edu>
Organization: Rutgers Univ., New Brunswick, N.J.

crdunlea@rodan.acs.syr.edu (Christopher R. Dunlea) writes:

>Why label yourself at all? I think acceptance comes not from asserting 
>differences from hets but from showing that sex is NOT a great determining
>factor in life. After all, the concept of "Het pride" is repugnant to me--
>although I am het. 

Of course  the concept of "Het pride" is repugnant:  it is much better known
as English 101-390, History 101-999, Religion 001-2000......

No one has ever systematically degraded hets qua hets; of course you have 
no need to redress oppression.

But how dare you presume to tell those at last naming our names to stop 
calling attention to ourselves!  Only blindness begot of uncritical 
enjoyment of heteroprivilege could ever make you this insensitive.
Any "acceptance" accorded me if I keep my mouth shut and emphasize how 
normal I really am is "acceptance" totally unworthy of the human spirit.
Thanks, but no thanks.   

Louie/Quean Lutibelle

-- 
  ==========================================================================
  Louie Crew, Assoc. Prof., Academic Foundations Dept., Rutgers U./NWK 07102
  lcrew@andromeda.rutgers.edu                                   201-485-4503
                            Closets are for prayer!
Newsgroups: alt.homosexual
From: phi@sage.cc.purdue.edu (Aeleck)
Subject: yeesh
Organization: Purdue University Computing Center
Date: Wed, 11 Nov 1992 18:37:39 GMT


gods, I almost sound militant with that last posting, don't I?
I think I need a beer.....

Aeleck

......burp.......     :)