HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: Dave Dodson <dodson@convex.COM>
Subject: Re: When to buy Mutual funds - tax implications
Originator: dodson@bach.convex.com
Date: Fri, 2 Oct 1992 21:22:10 GMT
Distribution: usa
Reply-To: dodson@convex.COM (Dave Dodson)
Organization: Engineering, CONVEX Computer Corp., Richardson, Tx., USA
Keywords: capital gains distributions.
X-Disclaimer: This message was written by a user at CONVEX Computer
              Corp. The opinions expressed are those of the user and
              not necessarily those of CONVEX.

In article <1992Oct2.202225.8759@pslu1.psl.wisc.edu> dbk@pslu1.psl.wisc.edu (Don Katz) writes:
>In article <BvI997.EKv@inews.Intel.COM> madalier@frx781.intel.com (Mehmet Adalier - EPG) writes:
>>On a related note, let's say that my fund has capital loses rather
>>than capital gains.  For instance, 100 shares at $1.00 each, and they
>>decide they had $.25 in capital loses.  I wait until the end of the year.
>>How does this work?
>
>Funds, by law, can't pass through capital losses to their
>shareholders. But they are required to pass through all capital gains.
>Gotcha! 

Not really a gotcha, as a mutual fund can carry capital losses forward to
offset future capital gains.

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Dave Dodson		                             dodson@convex.COM
Convex Computer Corporation      Richardson, Texas      (214) 497-4234
Newsgroups: misc.invest
From: ask@cbnews.cb.att.com (Arthur S. Kamlet)
Subject: Re: What is a covered call option?
Organization: AT&T Bell Laboratories,  Columbus, Ohio
Distribution: usa
Date: Sat, 26 Sep 1992 19:54:20 GMT

In article <1686C138F1.RKSHUKLA@SUVM.SYR.EDU> RKSHUKLA@SUVM.SYR.EDU (Ravi Shukla) writes:
>In article <1992Sep24.022407.15853@cbnews.cb.att.com>
>ask@cbnews.cb.att.com (Arthur S. Kamlet) writes:
>>
>>                         I don't know what a covered call option
>>   for stock indexes is, but you could try to construct one if you
>>   can find the appropriate  mutual fund.
> 
>How about covering the short call with a long futures position! You can
>buy futures on some indices. Just a thought.

Seems to me to be a poor deal. The time value portion of the future
decreases steadily.  But a mutual fund based on an index tracks the
index pretty well, consisting of some intrinsic value based on the
day-to-day value fo the stocks in the fund/index.

In effect, your suggestion is to write a call which bets the future
value of the index won't rise too much, and then buy a future --
whose other buyers are betting the value of the index will rise as
much as possible.  You would be betting against yourself!
-- 
Art Kamlet  a_s_kamlet@att.com  AT&T Bell Laboratories, Columbus
Newsgroups: misc.invest
From: dbk@pslu1.psl.wisc.edu (Don Katz)
Subject: Re: When to buy Mutual funds - tax implications
Keywords: capital gains distributions.
Organization: Physical Sciences Lab, University of Wisconsin
Distribution: usa
Date: Tue, 29 Sep 92 18:59:23 GMT

In article <1992Sep29.132443.9054@cbnewsd.cb.att.com> grande@cbnewsd.cb.att.com (brad.l.grande) writes:
>Is this distributuion done at the same time of year by all the funds, or is
>it specific to the fund?

Specific to the fund. Most stock funds have a single distribution at
the end of December, though the exact date varies. Some funds have two
distributions a year (the end of June also).

>
>Are you responsible for the full years gains during the year that you buy or
>will the fund attribute to you just for the portion of the year that you held
>shares?  (Either way could pose to be a double edged sword.)

The entire distribution is taxable, even if you just bought in the day
before the distribtion. So you have to be careful. If you buy $10,000
of a fund, and 1 day later they pay out $2000, you will have to report
the $2000 as income and pay taxes on it even if it is reinvested in
the fund. 

>
>If it makes sense, I could purchase the funds before the end of the year but
>I am unsure of the answers to the above questions.  I fully admit at this time
>that I have not ordered the prospecti for the funds that I wish to
> purchase.

Call the funds and ask when they expect a distribution, and when they
might know how big it will be. I would avoid investing now in funds
that had big years last year - they quite likely sold many of their
winners this year and could have substantial distributions, even if they lost
money this year.

Funds that have mid-year distributions (Monetta Fund, IAI Regional)
would be better bets if you want to invest your money now.


-- 
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Don Katz                                .         Physical
                                       .- / \ -.      Sciences
University of Wisconsin - Madison   ./'  /+-+\  `\.       Laboratory   E-MAIL
Newsgroups: misc.invest
From: dbk@pslu1.psl.wisc.edu (Don Katz)
Subject: Re: Closed Mutual Funds (Why?)
Organization: Physical Sciences Lab, University of Wisconsin
Date: Fri, 2 Oct 92 20:19:33 GMT

In article <92276.075921JGROVER@MAINE.MAINE.EDU> JGROVER@MAINE.MAINE.EDU (John Grover) writes:
>I've been tracking some no-loads for sometime and doing a little research
>to pick a fund to transfer some assets to. (Currently in Templeton which
>I've not been happy with.) I finally decided on several with Mutual Shares
>one of the favorites. However, when I called for a prospectus they told
>me the fund was closed to new investors. Why is this done?
>
>Followup: They said Mutual Beacon is open and has the same objective
>as Mutual Shares. I've not looked at this one much, any opinions?

Mutual Beacon and Mutual Shares have almost identical holdings, and
are run by the same manager. For some reason, the longer term record
of Mutual Beacon is somewhat poorer, but given the similarity in their
holdings, I would not expect much performance difference in the
future.

Also, I thought I read somewhere that new accounts in Mutual Shares
could be obtained through Schwab, but not directly. You might check
that out.

-- 
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Don Katz                                .         Physical
                                       .- / \ -.      Sciences
University of Wisconsin - Madison   ./'  /+-+\  `\.       Laboratory   E-MAIL
Newsgroups: misc.invest
From: GCTHORNE@idbsu.idbsu.edu ("Broward "Commie" Horne")
Subject:      Re:  The effect of the U.S. national debt
Date: Thu, 01 Oct 92 14:16:11 MST
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From: jscott@AFIT.AF.MIL (John R. Scott)
Subject: Re: Effects of U.S. national debt
Organization: Air Force Institue of Technology, WPAFB OH
Distribution: usa
Date: Thu, 1 Oct 1992 12:58:06 GMT

>        Could you explain what you mean by "redistribute wealth more
>equitably"?  Equitable is such a nebulous term and means different

        Equitable. Evenly. Equally.

        In fact, between you and the Chris-monger, I got to thinking.

        Investment is really just another way of " redistributing wealth ".

>       Who is to decide what income level is equitable and how it should be
>distributed?

       I highly suspect the well-beloved "free market" forces will
       determine the right level.  By plunging the whole world into
       another depression, or continuing recession, until the power
       blocks now distorting the "free market" acquiesce.

>        Income equitabiliy and redistribution arguments can be facades for
>other, more underlying political objectives.

          Politics have nothing to do with it.  If I have an engine that
    isn't working, well, it would behoove me to buy a new one that does.
    I suppose I might care if it said  " Made in Arkansas ".  On the other
    hand, I might not.

            On the other hand, I might just be a tight-handed bastard
    and say  " To hell with a new engine.  The kids can walk "
Newsgroups: misc.invest
From: greg@cherokee.b23b.ingr.com (Greg Moritz)
Subject: Income & Wealth (Was: Effects...Debt)
Reply-To: greg@cherokee.b23b.ingr.com (Greg Moritz)
Organization: Dazix, An Intergraph Company
Date: Mon, 5 Oct 1992 23:02:46 GMT


 ems@Apple.COM (Mike Smith) correctly points out:
> >GCTHORNE@idbsu.idbsu.edu wrote:
> > >   a)  5 % of the population own everything ...
> > > 
> I wrote:
> >   The latest figures that I saw for the distribution of income ...
> >       41% for the top  20% of the population
> 
> It is well worth noting that you are talking about different things.
> 
> One said 5% of the population own all the stuff.  The other answered
> that 41% of the INCOME goes to the top 20%.  The 'owners of stuff'
> don't need all that much INCOME, they would rather have unrecorded
> capital gains ...  (i.e. they don't sell their stuff ...).

There should be a pretty good correlation between 'Income' and 
'Ownership' in the US.  With a few exceptions, the folks with any
kind of a nest egg are 'churning' their wealth - getting out of
losers, switching to winners, etc. The correlation, I would guess,
gets lower as wealth goes higher.

The exceptions are folks like ... you guessed it Big Bill G. who made 
over $1 billion (on paper) in some years due to unrealized capital gains 
                                                ^^^^^^^^^^
on his stock.  It was also noted by many in this newsgroup, that he 
could not turn that stock into cash without losing billions in the 
process due to dilution in the market for his stock.

The real wealth in the US is with people who have hundreds of thousands
to tens of millions, not the centimillionaire of the Forbes Four Hundred.
A good portfolio is diversified and churned over thru the years.

Notice that I said "correlation" above (and "pretty good" -> stuff like
that).  I've never seen any statistics on said correlation, but I would
like to.  Like Mike, I would guess that the top 20% *own* more than 
their 41% of income would indicate.  I would bet that it's under 50%.
However, Mike might be willing to bet higher (?)

Does anyone know or recollect such a statistic?
Newsgroups: misc.invest
From: rajeev@cbnewsf.cb.att.com (rajeev.dolas)
Subject: Wanted Investment Club info
Organization: AT&T
Distribution: usa
Date: Tue, 6 Oct 1992 20:11:29 GMT


Hello netters,

	I am in middle of forming an investment club with 5 others and 
	have volunteered to handle the registration/setup process. I have
	ordered the NAIC information booklet but they ran out of their
	Club manual :-(, so I need few tips/pointers to get me going
	till end of October (that's when they will print new manuals).

	1. Should the club be registered as a partnership or as a corporation?
	2. We are not sure about the accounting procedure. 
	   We are debating if we should follow MMF (money market fund)
	   accounting procedure of keeping $1 value per share. Comments?

	Will appreciate other tips as well! Also I am willing to summarize
	if there is enough interest.

	Thanks in advance.

	Raj Dolas.

Newsgroups: misc.invest
From: af954@yfn.ysu.edu (Maoee Tsen)
Subject: Re: ****** FTP Site/Decoding Financial Software *****
Reply-To: af954@yfn.ysu.edu (Maoee Tsen)
Organization: St. Elizabeth Hospital, Youngstown, OH
Date: Fri, 2 Oct 1992 17:44:53 GMT


In a previous article, ci483@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Babu Narasimhan) says:
>	A few days ago somebody posted a series of files on a
>financial software package. I am not familiar with the decoding
>scheme suggested and would like to know if anybody had any success
>in downloding and decoding the software. I feel that it would be
>beneficial to me and many others if the software executables 
>are placed in an archive location for easy ftp access, such as
>"anonymous" login, for downloading. Any info about using the
>software and decoding it would be appreciated.
>
	Please check the directory /mirrors/msdos/finance/ at ftp
site wuarchive.wustl.edu   login as anonymous and send your ID as 
password. There are lots of financial softwares there.  If you are not
familiar with ZIP, ARC...compressing formats, check /mirrors/msdos/zip/
and /mirrors/msdos/arc-lbr/ directory for decompression softwares.  If you
need files index, or file descriptions, check the /mirrors/msdos/info/ 
directory.
-- 
-==-==-==-==-==-==-==-==-==-==-==-==-==-==-==-==-==-==-==-==-==-==-
Maoee Tsen,   tsen@chemsun.chem.umn.edu   af954@yfn.ysu.edu
Dept. of Chemistry, Univ. of Minnesota, Minneapolis, MN 55455-0431
####
Newsgroups: misc.invest
From: dlb@sunloaf.dazixco.ingr.com (Dave Buehmann)
Subject: Re: stock trade with Employee's Stock Purchasing Plan
Reply-To: dlb@sunloaf.dazixco.ingr.com
Organization: Dazix-Intergraph
Distribution: usa
Date: Fri, 2 Oct 1992 18:24:58 GMT

In article <1992Sep30.155553.29904@samba.oit.unc.edu>, Brian.Chan@bbs.oit.unc.edu (Brian Chan) writes:
|> 
|> Hello,
|>  
|> I have a question regarding stock trade. Insteading of spending $20 for
|> a LD call to call my discount stock broker (Aufhauser) in the States, 
|> I would like to ask our fellow netters first on misc.invest.
|>  
|> I purchased X shares through my company's employee's stock purchasing
|> plan at a 15% discount. The last pay deduction comes at the end of 
|> November. Technically speaking I'd own X shares then. The trouble is
|> I cannot get the certificate until mid-January and I would like to sell
|> them before the end of the year to claim the capital gain.
|>  
|> Can I sell the stock without holding a certificate? (Say if I can get
|> some formal letter from my company indicating I do own X shares.) Can my 
|> broker do that?
|>  
|> I have a fairly sizeable equity in my stock account which will cover 
|> the proceeds from the "vapor" stock trade. (i.e. I am not going to take 
|> the money and run B-).)  
|>  
|> If I can short a stock by "borrowing", can I borrow and sell from my
|> own stock in advance?

This is your solution.  Just shell your stock short, then cover the
short when you receive the stock.  If you aren't already approved for
short selling, you will probably need to fill out more paperwork with
your broker.  Depending on your broker, you may need some additional
equity in your account.  You also need to tell them when you are selling
that you are selling short so that they can borrow the stock temporarily.

|>  
|> Thank you very much for your kind assistance in advance,
|>  
|> Brian
|> Stuttgart, Germany.
|>  

-- 

Dave Buehmann               Voice:    (303) 581-2318
Dazix - Intergraph          Fax:      (303) 581-9972
5101 Spine Road             Internet: dlb@sunloaf.dazixco.ingr.com
Boulder, CO  80301          UUCP:     ...uunet!ingr!dazixco!dlb
From: McAldon International Inc. <mcaldon@igc.apc.org>
Newsgroups: misc.invest
Date: 26 Sep 92 19:16 PDT
Subject: Re: Computerized Will Programs
Nf-ID: #R:1992Sep22.095322@ties.bell-atl.c:1022523276:cdp:1426500266:000:430
Nf-From: cdp.UUCP!mcaldon    Sep 26 19:16:00 1992


|price, especially if you shop around. I've found the local Sunday-paper
|TV magazine seems to be the place to find the most attorney ads these
|days... Wonder why?

Demographics.  Sunday TV sections are a cheap way to reach older folks
with mail-order and direct-response ads.  DMcKenzie

|    mcaldon@igc.org     | Opinions dispensed herein not guaranteed |
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
From: ci483@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Babu Narasimhan)
Newsgroups: misc.invest
Subject: ****** FTP Site/Decoding Financial Software *****
Date: 2 Oct 1992 14:38:32 GMT
Organization: Case Western Reserve University, Cleveland, Ohio (USA)
NNTP-Posting-Host: hela.ins.cwru.edu


Hi,
	A few days ago somebody posted a series of files on a
financial software package. I am not familiar with the decoding
scheme suggested and would like to know if anybody had any success
in downloding and decoding the software. I feel that it would be
beneficial to me and many others if the software executables 
are placed in an archive location for easy ftp access, such as
"anonymous" login, for downloading. Any info about using the
software and decoding it would be appreciated.

	If you don't want to waste the bandwidth, please feel
free to respond by e-mail to  "bnarasimhan@vax.micron.com".

	
Newsgroups: misc.invest
From: fischer@li.serum.kodak.com (Chris Fischer (x39613))
Subject: Re:      Re: Effects of U.S. national debt
Organization: Clinical Products Division, Eastman Kodak Company
Date: Thu, 1 Oct 1992 11:30:56 GMT

In article <9209302356.AA18495@inet-gw-1.pa.dec.com> GCTHORNE@idbsu.idbsu.edu (Broward Horne) writes:
>>Read the Forbes 400 Richest People in America issue; this year's issue
>>is due out soon.  One of the most interesting commentaries is that of
>>the 400, at most one or two derive their riches primarily from the
>>stock market.  The vast majority of really rich people and families
>>are the largest owners of, and actively manage, large businesses like
>>Wal-Mart, Microsoft, Reebok, Mars, etc.  Passive investors (long or
>>short) don't get really wealthy.
>
>           Not true.  All the above examples, as well as Hewlett and
>   Packard, Intel dudes, etc ALL are wealthy due to their STOCK
>   holdings in their own companies.  

More like they got wealthy STARTING their own company, and then shared
some of it with the public.

>   While passive investors may not
>   get wealthy, it is equally true that the great majority of "wealth"
>   in this country is derived from stock ownership.  Thus, a market
>   crash would serve to effectively redistribute wealth more equitably.
>

Considering the total short position is less than the total long position,
a crash would DESTROY wealth.  If that what you think redistribution means,
you should buy a dictionary. 

(Of course Clinton et. al. would be happier if we were all equally poor)

>   Personally, I'm now convinced, after reading up on Batra, Thurow,
>   Kindleberger, 2 years as a business major with a quantitative
>   background, that the current recession will continue indefinitely,
>   until a more equitable distribution is made.
>
Maybe you should check to see if that "business" school was accredited,
because you got ripped off.

>      Money ( or wealth ) is like water.  If it don't flow, no go.


-- 
Chris Fischer (fischer@serum.clpd.KODAK.com)
They never even listen to my opinion, why would they make it policy?
"The healthy gum tissue of our liberties are being eaten away by the 
 periodontal disease of government regulation." - D.Barry
Newsgroups: misc.invest
From: mcdonald@cs.sfu.ca (Ken Mcdonald)
Subject: How saturated is the market for Windows?
Organization: CSS, Simon Fraser University, Burnaby, B.C., Canada
Date: Wed, 30 Sep 1992 07:14:15 GMT


Anyone have numbers on how successful Windows penetration of the IBM/clone
market has been?  In particular, out of those machines which have the
ability to run windows, how many have already been so equipped, and
how many have yet to change over?
  
Thanks,
Ken McDonald
mcdonald@cs.sfu.ca
Newsgroups: misc.invest
From: barrada@infonode.ingr.com (Ahmed Barrada)
Subject: cifra
Organization: Intergraph Corporation, Huntsville, AL.
Date: Mon, 28 Sep 1992 18:12:40 GMT

Cifra has 2 types of equities :

class B : with voting rights

class C : without voting rights

How important really is it to have voting rights for the small investor ?

If $1 worth of class B goes +- 10% , so will $1 worth of class C ?

Sincerly ,

Ahmed Barrada

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Ahmed Barrada
ALB24A , 104H / LR24A
Infrastructure Group / AEC
Intergraph Corp
Huntsville , AL 35894-0001 , USA

Internet: barrada@karam.b24a.ingr.com

205 / 730-8150 w , 205 / 730-8743 f
Newsgroups: misc.invest
From: acheng@ncsa.uiuc.edu (Albert Cheng)
Subject: Re: Are we nearing another stock market crash?
Originator: acheng@shalom.ncsa.uiuc.edu
Organization: Nat'l Ctr for Supercomp App (NCSA) @ University of Illinois
Distribution: na
Date: Tue, 29 Sep 1992 15:07:07 GMT


In article <1992Sep28.234714.10324@pony.Ingres.COM>, rion@Ingres.COM (Rion Cassidy (x3357) OGT) writes:
>It seems to me that there was a big concern about computerized trading
>back in the '87 crash and the steps were taken to prevent a similar
>situation from ever arising.  I don't know the specifics, but I was
>given the impression that there might be downturns, but never such
>huge one day losses ever again.  Any comments?

The "fix" is banning computer driven trading if the market (DOW?) index
drops more than 50 points that day since opening.  The threat gives the
fund managers second thought if they really want to panic and lose
their computer assist option.  But there is no ban against other
trading.  If the sky is falling, nothing can stop the stempade, except
closing the trading totally.  That may cool people off a bit, but it
can not stop oversea trading.  You may end up watching your investment
evaporate overnight.

Remember one fact: computers did not exist back in '29.  All you need
is ill informed greedy human for a market crash.  :-)
Newsgroups: misc.invest
From: federkin@rtsg.mot.com (John Federkins)
Subject: Re: mini-crash in the wallstreet
Keywords: Dow down about 100 points
Organization: Motorola Inc., Cellular Infrastructure Group
Distribution: usa
Date: Mon, 5 Oct 1992 20:26:38 GMT

rravi@cbnewsj.cb.att.com (ramesh.ravi) writes:

>Dow is down about 100 points at 11:15 AM. 

The DJIA closed today at 3119, down 81 points.


-- 
------------------------------------------------------------------------
   "The sooner you fall behind, the more time you have to catch up!"
John Federkins				Cellular Infrastructure Division
Motorola, Inc.				Arlington Heights, IL
Newsgroups: misc.invest
From: stgprao@st.unocal.COM (Richard Ottolini)
Subject: Re: Real-Time Stock Quoters
Organization: Unocal Corporation
Date: Thu, 1 Oct 1992 15:43:29 GMT

Information is money particularly when it is about money and is timely.
If you want real-time, be prepared to pay.  Not every organization is so
nice as many InterNet posters to give out information below market value.
From: ask@cbnews.cb.att.com (Arthur S. Kamlet)
Newsgroups: misc.invest
Subject: Re: What is a covered call option?
Date: 30 Sep 92 02:18:25 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: AT&T Bell Laboratories,  Columbus, Ohio

In article <2333@gandalf.intel.com> chedley@carthago.intel.com (CHEDLEY_AOURIRI) writes:
>In article <1992Sep26.195420.23599@cbnews.cb.att.com>, ask@cbnews.cb.att.com (Arthur S. Kamlet) writes:
>|>... 
>|> In effect, your suggestion is to write a call which bets the future
>|> value of the index won't rise too much, and then buy a future --
>|> whose other buyers are betting the value of the index will rise as
>|> much as possible.  You would be betting against yourself!
>|> --                 *************************************
>
>Well, that's hedging your bets.   
>Is'nt that what you do when you buy a straddle for example (a put and a call
>on the same stock) ? 

I construct saddles with the strikes on different sides of the
market.

Example:


               low side       market price        high side
                  ^                ^               ^
                  |                                |

             write put here                    write call here



This way, variations within the [ high - low ] spread keep you
fully protected; variations below or above the limits provide
the protection you received from the other side.   Swings that 
go both above the high and below the low and result in double
exercise are deadly, but can be avoided :^)

This sort of straddle makes sense to me.  The other strategy of
writing a call on the high side and buying a future - meaning you
hope the price rises -- doesn't  seem the way to hedge.  What's
being hedged (insured)?
-- 
Art Kamlet  a_s_kamlet@att.com  AT&T Bell Laboratories, Columbus
From: rauchfuss@hpfcso.FC.HP.COM (Brian Rauchfuss)
Date: Thu, 1 Oct 1992 16:42:47 GMT
Subject: Re: stock market moves down inefficiently??
Organization: Hewlett-Packard, Fort Collins, CO, USA