HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: anwar+@cs.cmu.edu (Anwar Mohammed)
Subject: Re: Iraq/Kuwait border dispute?
Date: Wed, 29 Jul 92 01:53:22 GMT
Organization: School of Computer Science, Carnegie Mellon

In article <1992Jul28.195953.14935@cs.ubc.ca> yogi@cs.ubc.ca (Yossi Gil) writes:
>I would like to rais the following issue for discussion in TPM:
>
>I heard that there are currently discussions on where the border between
>Iraq and Kuwait should lie. From what I hear the Kuwaitis demand that some
>land that used to be part of Iraq before Aug 2nd should be part of Kuwait.
>Apparently, the US supports this claim.

This land was *never* part of Iraq.  It belonged to Kuwait.  Iraq agreed to
these borders in a 1963 UN agreement.  Then, throughout the 70's and 
80's, slowly encroached on Kuwaiti land.  The borders are being surveyed
by the UN to EXACTLY MATCH those agreed upon by Iraq and Kuwait in 1963.

It isn't surprising that Iraq is resisting.  They've also taken to 
claiming Kuwait as a 19th province again.  Look where it got them 
last time.

>
>A friend of mine, (who is not an Iraqi himself, but probably closer to the
>Iraqi side then to the Kuwaiti one) said that the Kuwaitis are in danger
>that this demand would backfire on them.  Should this be realized "even
>the opposition of Iraq would never forgive the Kuwaitis". He mentions that
>the Iraqis are known for years in the Arab world as the most stubborn,
>persistent and aggressive of all Arab nations. 

Who cares?  If this is true, they will never forgive the Kuwaitis for 
resisting their occupation and taking steps toward self-preservation.
If Iraqis can't forgive Kuwaitis for the mistakes of their own government,
then they'll never get themselves out from under this brute, Saddam 
Hussein.

In general, though, I disagree with this assessment of the situation.
Nationalistic stereotypes aside, the region would be much better off 
if Saddam Hussein was overthrown and the GCC states chipped in to 
help Iraq rebuild (a Marshall plan for Iraq). 

A country like Iraq could've been the biggest economic power in the 
Middle East.  They will *never*, ever be as powerful or as influential
as a military power as they could've been as an economic power.  What
a pathetic waste.

>
>--
>Joseph (Yossi) Gil                 {alberta,uw-beaver,uunet}!ubc-cs!yogi
>Dept. of Computer Science          yogi@cs.ubc.ca (cs.ubc.ca=137.82.8.5)
>6356 Agricultural Road., Univ. of B.C.,             Tel: +1-604-822-8175
>Vancouver, British Columbia, V6T 1Z2, Canada.       Fax: +1-604-822-5485


-- 
Anwar Mohammed                           Graduate Student
anwar+@cs.cmu.edu  (NeXTmail welcome)    School of Computer Science
Voice: +1 412 268 3043                   Carnegie-Mellon University
Fax:   +1 412 681 5739                   Pittsburgh, PA  15213-3890
From: phd21@seq1.keele.ac.uk (A. Jaber)
Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast
Subject: Re: Sticks and Stones
Date: 28 Jul 92 19:31:25 GMT
Reply-To: phd21@seq1.kl.ac.uk (A. Jaber)
Organization: University of Keele, England

>From: rwerman@vms.huji.ac.il (ROBERT WERMAN)
>
>Cops in most western countries will shoot someone who attacks them
>with knives.  Are we to conclude that they shouldn't, since knives
>are less lethal than guns?

	Those COPS in Western Countries are not membersof occupying
	forces. They are there to keep law and order. Even if they shoot
	at people they are responsible in front of the law and usualy
	take severe punishment for un-laful injury and not 3 weeks sence
	for a murder.

	In some countries police do not carry GUNS at all.

>__Bob Werman
>rwerman@vms.huji.ac.il
>Jerusalem

A Jaber
Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast
From: jake@bony1.bony.com (Jake Livni)
Subject: Re: Want facts? "WHO RUNS THE MEDIA? The Alarming Facts"
Organization: The Department of Redundancy Department
Date: Thu, 23 Jul 92 22:32:46 GMT

In article <1992Jul13.194908.16315@anasaz> scott@qip.UUCP (Scott Gibson) writes:

>If you would prefer that Israel be
>expected to lower it's standards of moral and ethical behaviour to that
>of Syria, then by all means, have at it.

No, I would prefer that Syria's standards be brought up to those of
Israel.  Only then will fair negotiations be likely.  Until then,
twisting arms on both sides to reach agreements means that the
nice guys are gonna get screwed while the crooks are gonna laugh 
all the way to the bank.

The same goes for the other Arab states that dismiss democracy 
and human rights as unsuitable for their people.

-- 
Jake Livni  jake@bony1.bony.com               Pat Paulsen for President
American-Occupied New York                    This year he has a real chance!
My opinions only - employer has no opinions.
Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast
From: nyh@emilio.WPI.EDU (Nevo Y Hed)
Subject: Clarificatrion on my prev post
Organization: Worcester Polytechnic Institute
Date: Fri, 24 Jul 1992 02:17:53 GMT

In article <1992Jul24.021225.23509@wpi.WPI.EDU> nyh@emilio.WPI.EDU (Nevo Y Hed) writes:
>	If dead - are the bodies kept in a local museum?

	Not actually implying the existance of a museom on Hizbulla's
side rather complaining about missing bodies.


	-Nevo
-- 
Nevo Y.	 Hed              nyh@wpi.wpi.edu
++1-508-754-2491          CS student, Worcester Polytechnic Institute.
"I like my cigar too, but I take it out of my mouth from time to time" G.Marx
From: anwar+@cs.cmu.edu (Anwar Mohammed)
Subject: Re: Inter-Arab Politics
Date: Wed, 22 Jul 92 23:37:29 GMT
Organization: School of Computer Science, Carnegie Mellon

In article <s3fm#7j.analyst@netcom.com> analyst@netcom.com (David Sternlight) writes:
>
>Those who are surprised by the discussion between Jaber and Mohammed,
>in which Jaber makes some (incorrect) assertions about Ajami, and
>Mohammed reacts somewhat strongly (his language verges on flaming
>and he ends up putting Jaber in his kill file), are seeing some
>typical Inter-Arab political discussion. Actually, for the genre,
>Jaber is positively inoffensive, and Mohammed somewhat mild.

David, you haven't really been on this newsgroup very long so you 
probably don't have any idea what the history behind my putting
Jaber in my kill file.  Furthermore, you have completely *mischaracterized*
the nature of Jaber's post.  It was three or four lines of assertions
about Ajami, and about three or four *paragraphs* of unsubstantiated,
nonsensical hyperbole about me.  

Next time read the posts before trying to exploit it for whatever 
propagandistic purposes you may have.


>
>Students of such matters are not as surprised at the rhetoric
>used by some Arabs against Israel in this discussion. It takes
>some doing, I imagine, for people used to such forms of words
>to adapt to the less grandiose style of discussion of such matters
>among most non-Arabs.  (But note the interesting exception in the
>style of Soviet rhetoric during the height of the cold war, or
>more recent Chinese rhetoric. Perhaps "running dogs of capitalist
>lackeys and hyenas" does not translate well into Arabic.)

The rhetoric *I* used was a result of the frustration I have with 
Jaber's sick-minded vendetta.  He's like a stray cat, feed it once 
and it will always return.  I've decided to stop feeding it.


>
>-- 
>David Sternlight        David Sternlight Inc.        email:analyst@netcom.COM


-- 
Anwar Mohammed                           Graduate Student
anwar+@cs.cmu.edu  (NeXTmail welcome)    School of Computer Science
Voice: +1 412 268 3043                   Carnegie-Mellon University
Fax:   +1 412 681 5739                   Pittsburgh, PA  15213-3890
Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast
From: bx573@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Alan H. Stein)
Subject: Re: Radio Host Fired After Jewish Prote
Reply-To: bx573@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Alan H. Stein)
Organization: Case Western Reserve University, Cleveland, OH (USA)
Date: Sat, 25 Jul 92 17:35:18 GMT


In a previous article, arens@ISI.EDU (Yigal Arens) says:

>In article <1992Jul23.214038.479@usenet.ins.cwru.edu> bx573@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Alan H. Stein) writes:
>>
>> There's a difference between dealing with Nazis and colluding with them.
>> I've heard some Palestinian Arabs claim that Shamir was effectively
>> negotiating with the PLO terrorists, but I haven't heard of them believing
>> that he was colluding with THEM!
>
>As I've already pointed out, the only thing that saved Shamir from
>collusion with the Nazis was that the latter were not interested.
>Shamir, for his part, offered to fight on the Nazi side in the war.

As has been pointed out by others, the dealings Shamir had with the Nazis
were in an attempt to save Jewish lives from the Nazis, something you in
your self-hating neuroses choose to ignore.
-- 
bx573@cleveland.freenet.edu----Alan H. Stein----stein@uconnvm.uconn.edu
Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast
From: nyh@fledgling.WPI.EDU (Nevo Y Hed)
Subject: Re: U.S. territories vs. Israel territories
Organization: Worcester Polytechnic Institute
Date: Fri, 31 Jul 1992 13:22:49 GMT

In article <serdar.712543528@fawlty8.eng.monash.edu.au> serdar@fawlty8.eng.monash.edu.au (Serdar Boztas) writes:

>It is quite easy to raise a strawman and then shoot it down. There doesn't
>seem to be widespread opposition to US in Guam. If there is, please
>enlighten us.

Highly irrelevant!!!!  Rights should be granted to citizens always -
not just granted on demand - what kind of a democracy did you grow in?

>In Israel's case the issue is one of invasion, expulsion and widespread
>repression. This pseudo-comparison just does not wash.

Do you wash?  your posts stinks for miles - In Israel's case is
homecoming after a troubled and imposed jurney[sp?] - in the process
being rejected by those who tookover the said home and refuse to share
it.  

Repression - I'll grant you that - but the repressed have more to
blaim their brothers then their cousines.


sorry for the flames - nothing personal - I just had to free myself :)

		-Nevo
-- 
Nevo Y.	 Hed              nyh@wpi.wpi.edu
++1-508-754-2491          CS student, Worcester Polytechnic Institute.
"I like my cigar too, but I take it out of my mouth from time to time" G.Marx
From: viznyuk@physics.ucla.edu (Sergei Viznyuk)
Newsgroups: talk.politics.soviet
Subject: Re: Breakup of Czecho-Slovakia (repost from s.c.c-s)
Date: 26 Jul 92 17:51:19 GMT
Organization: UCLA Department of Physics

In article <1992Jul25.173120.12924@enea.se> sommar@enea.se (Erland Sommarskog) writes:
>Mikhail S. Verbitsky (verbit@brauer.harvard.edu) writes:
>
>)	I bet Estonia and, probably, Krimea will soon join. Who else?
>)	Kazakhstan and Ukraine?
>
>Again, Russia???? I wouldn't bet on Estonia if I were you. But if
>you insist on Russia, we nice places as Chechen, Tatarstan or why
>not Daghestan? According to an article I read in Moscow News, weapons
>are really piling up there. With its 30 peoples, Daghestan would Bosnia-
>Hercegovina look like a trivial case to sort out.

  Just to note: unlike such "democracies" as Moldova, Georgia, Estonia,
Russia doesn't fight with it's own people, whether they are Chechens,
Daghestan, Tatar, or somebody else, who choose to be "independent".
S.V.

>-- 
>Erland Sommarskog - ENEA Data, Stockholm - sommar@enea.se
>Dabras Laiks!
Newsgroups: talk.politics.soviet
From: sommar@enea.se (Erland Sommarskog)
Subject: Re: Breakup of Czecho-Slovakia
Organization: Enea Data AB
Date: Sun, 26 Jul 1992 08:13:13 GMT

Mikhail S. Verbitsky (verbit@birkhoff.harvard.edu) writes:
>Tataria will not fight since they
>don't have any hope to secede (they are encircled by Russia).

Yes and no. Several other republics are bordering to Tatarstan,
includin Bashkiria. True, the entire batch is without contact
with any other state than Russia.

>I am afraid that the similar thing could
>happen in Cz.-Sl., hope I am wrong.

Read the papers. Or read s.c.czecho-slovak.

>What I tried to say in the article you criticised was
>just this - Slovaks are blaming their miseries on
>Czechs, and Czechs are angry on runaway Slovaks
>(they are calling them national-communists).

One person in s.c.c-s called them that.

It is however not completely without base, at least in so far that
the ideological views of the political majority in Slovakia and Czechy
are highly incompatible, with Klaus on the Czech side standing for a
radical economic liberal view, while the Slovak Meciar wants a slow
transition from the old system. So from this point of view a breakup
can be more fruitful, than trying to keep a federation together with 
a deadlocked parliament.
-- 
Erland Sommarskog - ENEA Data, Stockholm - sommar@enea.se
Dabras Laiks!
Newsgroups: talk.politics.soviet
From: GLL@fnal.fnal.gov (Gregory Landsberg)
Subject: Re: Demokratiya za chuzhoy stchet.(Was: Calm Down)
Organization: SUNY at Stony Brook
Date: Sun, 26 Jul 1992 18:10:28 GMT
X-News-Reader: VMS NEWS 1.20

In <1992Jul25.221116.14176@husc3.harvard.edu> verbit@birkhoff.harvard.edu writes:

> Ya absolyutno soglasen s Artavazdom. Eto svinstvo, chto mutla
> s bratiei pechataet po 20 statei v den' a armyanam zatykayut glotku.
> Eshcho bol'shee svinstvo - eto chto lyudi pechatayut stat'i
> tipa "armyane ubivali turok, turki armyan, ya soglasen, tol'ko
> otstan'te", hotya i ezhu ponyatno chto mutla fashist i chto 
> armyan ubivali, a oni - net (v razumnyh predelah). Ya uveren, chto esli
> ocherednoi natsionalist stal by pechatat' v tps stat'i pro
> to kak evrei ubivali nemtsev (latyshei, ukraintsev, russkih),
> mestnye evrei ego tut zhe by zatknuli. Pochemy zhe mutla
                                         ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> zhiviohonek? Ya dumayu, potomu chto my vse (kto chitaet
  ~~~~~~~~~~~~
> ego der'movye stat'i i molchit) svin'i, a armyan zdes' slishkom
> malo (i odin Arto normal'nyi).
> 
> Misha.

Ladno, bratsy, tak kak vse eti discussii pro mutlu uzhe zatrahali nu prosto
sovershenno, ya gotov predlozhit'  prostoe i ekologicheski chistoe reshenie
problemy.   Tak  uzh   slozhilos'  chto  Bell   labs, v   kotoryh  rabotaet
vyshenazvanniy individ, nahodyatsya prosto taki v 10 minutah ot moego doma.
Tak chto esli vi vse, rebyata, skinetes' na Uzi ili hotya by shotgun... :-)

Privet,

Greg
Newsgroups: talk.politics.soviet
Subject: Re: Breakup of Czecho-Slovakia
From: verbit@brauer.harvard.edu (Mikhail S. Verbitsky)
Date: 26 Jul 92 06:29:50 EDT
Organization: Dept. of Math, Harvard Univ.

In article <1992Jul26.081313.20797@enea.se> sommar@enea.se (Erland Sommarskog) writes:
>Mikhail S. Verbitsky (verbit@birkhoff.harvard.edu) writes:
>>Tataria will not fight since they
>>don't have any hope to secede (they are encircled by Russia).
>
>Yes and no. Several other republics are bordering to Tatarstan,
>includin Bashkiria. True, the entire batch is without contact
>with any other state than Russia.

Actually there are almost as much Tatars in Bashkiria as Bashkirs.
There are also lot of Bashkirs in Tatarstan. Naturally, they claim
each other's territories. There were serious clashes also. Tatars'
and Bashkirs' nationalists hate each other even more than they
hate Russians. Of course, they will not side. Two other respublics
are highly russified Ugro-Finns (Mari and Mordva) and being Christians
and not Turkish they have no reasons at all to side with Tatars.
I am not sure about Chuvashs, though, but it seems to me they 
are quite placid now. I vaguely recall they are Ugro-Finn too.
Mark Hubey wrote that they are Turkish (if I got it right).
Can someone definitely answer who they are?

BTW, there is a popular avant-gardist poet Gennadii Aigi
who is ethnic Chuvash. He was writing on Russian (and graduated
Moscow Institute of Literature) but switched to Chuvashian 
language when he was ~40. He has a lot of poetry printed in France.

Misha.
From: S947607@UMSLVMA.UMSL.EDU (Pavel Nikiforovitch)
Newsgroups: talk.politics.soviet
Subject: Re: Demokratiya za chuzhoy stchet.(Was: Calm Down)
Date: 27 Jul 92 22:51:31 GMT
Reply-To: "talk.politics.soviet via ListServ" <TPS-L@indycms.iupui.edu>

Mikhail S. Verbitsky says:

> Ya absolyutno soglasen s Artavazdom. Eto svinstvo, chto mutla
> s bratiei pechataet po 20 statei v den' a armyanam zatykayut glotku.

Kto eto zatykaet arm'anam glotku ???

> zhiviohonek? Ya dumayu, potomu chto my vse (kto chitaet
> ego der'movye stat'i i molchit) svin'i, a armyan zdes' slishkom
> malo (i odin Arto normal'nyi).

Ja soglasen, chto stat'i Mutlu oskorbl'ajut celyj narod, no zachem zhe
oskorbl'at' vseh nas ("svin'i"), a takzhe vseh arm'an v "talk.politics.soviet",
krome Arto ("nenormal'nye") ?
From: waynec@kuhub.cc.ukans.edu
Newsgroups: talk.politics.soviet
Subject: Re: Russian/English translator programs
Date: 22 Jul 92 20:33:36 CDT
Distribution: world
Organization: University of Kansas Academic Computing Services

In article <l6p0hrINNh4s@news.bbn.com>, wdavis@testament.bbn.com (William C. Davis) writes:
> In article <92203.125346BERSBACH@MAINE.MAINE.EDU> Al Bersbach <BERSBACH@MAINE.MAINE.EDU> writes:
>>Hope this an OK place to ask this:  I'd appreciate any info about programs
>>(preferably PC compatible programs) that translate Russian to English or
>>vice versa.  Thanks!
> 
> Only one I know of (not personal experience) is by The Language Quest
> Software Company, Los Altos, CA Tel. No. 1-800-622-3574.  They offer
> Russian I and Russian II.  They also offer Crillic laser fonts
> (Svoboda, Bodoni, Vremya and Garamond).  I believe it is for Mac only.
> If you locate others, please post to the list.  Thank you.
> 
> Bill
> 
> ARPANET:wdavis@bbn.com
> PHONE  :(617) 873-3947
> ADDRESS:BBN Systems & Technologies Corp.
> 	Advanced Simulation Division
>         50 Moulton Street  MS 2/2c
> 	Cambridge, MA 02138
> 	USA
From: oleg@watson.ibm.com
Subject: Re: More news from democratic Estonia
Date: Tue, 21 Jul 1992 18:41:28 GMT
Disclaimer: This posting represents the poster's views, not necessarily those of IBM
Organization: IBM T.J. Watson Research Center

UPI reports that the Russian government formally protested on Friday
to Estonia that the rights of Russian residents in Estonia are being
trampled on. Vitaly Churkin delivered an official protest to Estonian
Ambassador Kahnu.
From: verbit@brauer.harvard.edu (Mikhail S. Verbitsky)
Newsgroups: talk.politics.soviet
Subject: Re: Demokratia za chuzhoi schet
Date: 31 Jul 92 02:11:21 GMT
 <1992Jul28.175908.22259@leland.Stanford.EDU> <1992Jul29.185543.16344@lamont.ldgo.columbia.edu>
Organization: Dept. of Math, Harvard Univ.

In article <1992Jul29.185543.16344@lamont.ldgo.columbia.edu> sasha@ldgo.columbia.edu (Alexander Krupitsky) writes:

[deleted]

>  - Chto by ne govoril Misha Verbitsky, nikto mutlu ne chitaet.

[deleted]

Well, I don't read him too :) I am sure the people who are 
reading soviet newsgroups long enough have him in killfiles.
I just responded the article where it was stated that mutlu is
30% right. Obviously, the author should read mutlu to make
such an assertion. There are lot of people yet whose response
on brainwashing is proportional to the amount of brainwashing
Thus, if mutlu states that Armenians killed 300 000 000 Turks
these people will say that they killed 20 000 000 and so on.
I don't think there is a reasonable way to deal with this.
Best way (IMHO) is to write weekly mutlu faq with a) killfiles
b) cases when mutlu lied c) obscenities in his address, in Russian,
English, Armenian and Turkish :) (last part to stop Terminator III
from adding his twopence to mutlu's ramblings).
Could someone write faq? Arto? Ya gotov snabdit' avtora
bogatym naborom maternyh vyrazhenii v mutlovskii adres
(v glotke sidit, skotina!)

Misha.
From: covdy@shemesh.metaphor.com (Ivan Covdy)
Newsgroups: talk.politics.soviet
Subject: Re: RE: Hair and politics in Russia
Date: 27 Jul 92 18:57:52 GMT

in article <9207211046.AA24925@enet-gw.pa.dec.com>, alex@took.enet.dec.com ("Alex Allister Shvartsman, EMF,              LKG2-2/T2 21-Jul-1992 0619") says:
> 
> I realize the below is in good humour, but ...
> 
> % From: "VALENTINE M. SMITH" <CDELL@VAX1.UMKC.EDU>
> % Subj:	A quote I've long wanted to share ...
> %
> % "In 1989, a Soviet philosopher told me a bit of folk wisdom.
> % According to an anecdote then making the rounds in Moscow, he said,
> % the Soviet state oscillates between bald leaders and hairy ones -
> % between reformers and conservative tyrants. He ticked off the pairs:
> % Lenin, the bald revolutionary, was followed by Stalin, the tyrant
> % with thick, bristling brush-cut hair and menacing mustache.

[...]

C`mon, guys!

It was me who posted that joke to this newsgroup somewhere in 1990.
The discovery was on 100% mine, so I doubt that V.Smith heard it from
a "Soviet philosopher" (though, who knows: I didn't keep my discovery
in secrecy :-)

In the original version, I was saying about the "reformers/destroyers",
who, as a rule, make things even worse, and about "conservatives/builders",
who manage to stabilize (more or less) the situation.

I was saying nothing about the tyrants or freedom. 
Also, I was mentioning that my "discovery" was not full, since it
didn't consider the period before 1917.

I think my "theory" still works: as you can see, Gorby destroyed everything
he could and Yeltsin is trying to stabilize the situation.

If there are any archives for this news-group, you can try to find that my
articles with the "discovery".





-- 
  Ivan Covdy, covdy@shemesh.metaphor.com, METAPHOR Inc.,  CA,  USA
 *** People are looking for a Mind somewhere in the Universe,      ***
 *** because on the Earth they've been finding only the Stupidity. ***
From: wdavis@testament.bbn.com (William C. Davis)
Newsgroups: talk.politics.soviet
Subject: Re: Russian/English translator programs
Date: 21 Jul 1992 21:31:39 GMT
Organization: Bolt Beranek and Newman Inc., Cambridge MA
Distribution: world
Reply-To: wdavis@testament.bbn.com. (William C. Davis)
NNTP-Posting-Host: bbn.com
Keywords: Russian/English, Macintosh

In article <92203.125346BERSBACH@MAINE.MAINE.EDU> Al Bersbach <BERSBACH@MAINE.MAINE.EDU> writes:
>Hope this an OK place to ask this:  I'd appreciate any info about programs
>(preferably PC compatible programs) that translate Russian to English or
>vice versa.  Thanks!

Only one I know of (not personal experience) is by The Language Quest
Software Company, Los Altos, CA Tel. No. 1-800-622-3574.  They offer
Russian I and Russian II.  They also offer Crillic laser fonts
(Svoboda, Bodoni, Vremya and Garamond).  I believe it is for Mac only.
If you locate others, please post to the list.  Thank you.

Bill

ARPANET:wdavis@bbn.com
PHONE  :(617) 873-3947
ADDRESS:BBN Systems & Technologies Corp.
	Advanced Simulation Division
        50 Moulton Street  MS 2/2c
	Cambridge, MA 02138
	USA
Newsgroups: talk.politics.soviet