HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
Newsgroups: alt.fan.shostakovich
Subject: post
From: bstjohn@vax1.umkc.edu
Date: Thu, 13 Aug 1992 07:03:01 GMT
Organization: University of Missouri - Kansas City

I know of no "important" proteges still living...Kablevsky died in
1984...hardly counts though. I am hard pressed to name 5 contemporary Russian
composers, though...(after the D.S./prokofiev etc. era.)
From: s892024@minyos.xx.rmit.oz.au (Richard A. Muirden [GA])
Newsgroups: alt.fan.shostakovich
Subject: Re: What about the Concertos
Date: 21 Aug 92 23:57:39 GMT
Organization: RMIT Computer Centre, Melbourne Australia.

I'm sorry to have to push Chandos again *grin* but I have the 2 violin
concertos, excellent pieces both of them on one CD... 

Played very well by Lydia Mordkovich (sp?) who was a pupil of Oistrach's
(who the 1st violin concerto was dedicated to). 

It is:

CHAN 8820 (from memory so I could be wrong)

with Neeme Jarvi conducting the SNO (of course)

Wonderful recording!!!!

-richard

-- 
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Richard A. Muirden, System Administator, Wesley College :)
E-Mail: ram@lionet.wesley.OZ.AU, s892024@minyos.xx.rmit.OZ.AU, ram@tintern1.?? 
----------------- Fanatic of Shostakovich and "Star Trek" ---------------------
Xref: sparky alt.fan.shostakovich:188 rec.music.classical:11373
From: glockner-gregory@CS.YALE.EDU (Gregory Glockner)
Subject: Symphonies 6, 10 (was: more talk!)
Organization: Yale University Computer Science Dept., New Haven, CT 06520-2158
Date: Mon, 17 Aug 1992 13:37:11 GMT

s892024@minyos.xx.rmit.oz.au (Richard A. Muirden [GA]) writes:

>bstjohn@vax1.umkc.edu writes:
>
>>The sixth ... was the first real bitter symphony he brought to the public.   
>
>The sixth isn't that bitter... Not like tenth and so on... not to  mention
>the fourteenth!! ;-)
>
>Do you count the 2nd movement and most of the 3rd as being bitter...?
>
>The only part I find to be bitter in the 3rd movement is for about 10-20
>seconds (out of 6 mins) where there is just orchestral 'noise' as if he
>was taking out all his rage on the script...

The first movement of the sixth is very bitter.  It is sad and yearning
for something.  This is quite an impressive contrast with the last two 
movements, which both have a scherzo lightness.

BTW, the second time I performed the 6th, the conductor said the 3rd mvt.
was reminiscent of a trip to the circus.  Have any of you .netters heard
that story before?

Also, regarding the 10th:

I find Shostakovich's reliance of his DSCH theme almost
comical at the end of the 4th mvt.  He really beats the idea to death: the 
artist surviving over the state.  It is overblown in a way that makes
-- 
Gregory Glockner				Work: 202-267-3924
 Past:     Yale, '92				Home: 202-333-2454
 Present:  FAA, AOR-200		    	   On second thought, let's not go to
 Future:   ISyE, Georgia Tech (Phd 97)	   Camelot ... it's a silly place!
From: cyeomans@ms.uky.edu (Charles Yeomans)
Newsgroups: alt.fan.shostakovich
Subject: Re: post
Date: 17 Aug 92 17:31:57 GMT
    <1992Aug15.135315.4193@ms.uky.edu> 
    <1992Aug17.192612.6394@minyos.xx.rmit.oz.au>
Organization: University Of Kentucky, Dept. of Math Sciences

In article <1992Aug17.192612.6394@minyos.xx.rmit.oz.au> s892024@minyos.xx.rmit.oz.au (Richard A. Muirden [GA]) writes:
>cyeomans@ms.uky.edu (Charles Yeomans) writes:
>
>>In article <1992Aug13.005912.1@vax1.umkc.edu> bstjohn@vax1.umkc.edu writes:
>>>I am, of course, answering the easiest ones first! the most
>>>significant compositions would have to be the first symphony, Lady Macbeth, the
>>>Fourth Symphony and The Sixth Symphony.
>
>>I disagree.  THe tenth symphony is his best - especially the Andrew Davis
>>recording.
>
>Who the heck is Andrew Davis and with what Orchestra?
>
>The Jarvi/SNO on Chandos is utterly the *best* I have heard ever...
>
>I treasure that CD ;-)
>
>
>>Charles Yeomans
>>cyeomans@ms.uky.edu
>>yeomans@austin.onu.edu
>
>-richard
>
>-- 

Why, Andrew Davis was the conductor of the orchestra.
Actually, it was the LSO.  THe recording was  - as best as I can 
recall- on Seraphim.   My record was stolen a long time ago, no 
doubt by a thief with some taste.

CHarles Yeomans
cyeomans@ms.uky.edu
yeomans@austin.onu.edu
Newsgroups: alt.fan.shostakovich
From: s892024@minyos.xx.rmit.oz.au (Richard A. Muirden [GA])
Subject: Re: Mahler
Organization: RMIT Computer Centre, Melbourne Australia.
Date: Thu, 20 Aug 1992 17:37:47 EST

bstjohn@vax1.umkc.edu writes:

>There is such an obvious Mahlerian influence in D.S.'s Music. Particularly the
>Fourth and Lady MAcbeth. Anyone got any other good examples??

Well Mahler was someone he 'discovered' and liked a lot... a hell of a lot,
so it's only natural that this should come out in his music..

-richard

-- 
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Richard A. Muirden, System Administator, Wesley College :)
E-Mail: ram@lionet.wesley.OZ.AU, s892024@minyos.xx.rmit.OZ.AU, ram@tintern1.?? 
----------------- Fanatic of Shostakovich and "Star Trek" ---------------------
From: bstjohn@vax1.umkc.edu
Newsgroups: alt.fan.shostakovich
Subject: the 13th.
Date: 21 Aug 92 23:01:21 GMT
Organization: University of Missouri - Kansas City

The 13th is such a frightening work. I think that this is one of D.S.'s most
interesting and experimental works. I think the second and third movements
offer his most colourful orchestration, albeit shades of gray....

Any other thoughts?
Newsgroups: alt.fan.shostakovich
From: schroede@bnlux1.bnl.gov (gary l. schroeder)
Subject: Re: post
Organization: Brookhaven National Laboratory, Upton, NY 11973
Date: Fri, 14 Aug 1992 12:48:23 GMT

In article <1992Aug13.005912.1@vax1.umkc.edu> bstjohn@vax1.umkc.edu writes:

>I am, of course, answering the easiest ones first! the most
>significant compositions would have to be the first symphony, Lady Macbeth, the
>Fourth Symphony and The Sixth Symphony.

The 1st, 4th, and 6th?  Hmm, interesting picks for the "most
significant" category.  I can see the 1st (being his powerful symphonic
debut) and the fouth (being highly dramatic, emotional and
super-orchestrated), but the 6th I always found to be a little lacking.
I'm curious as to what your reasoning on these picks is.

-- 
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Gary Schroeder	                |  Warning: prolonged exposure to this
schroede@bnlux1.bnl.gov         |  .sig may cause retinal damage and 
Brookhaven National Laboratory  |  blistering skin rashes.
From: enw2049@zeus.tamu.edu (WALKE, ERIK N)
Newsgroups: alt.fan.shostakovich
Subject: Re: Bruckner....?
Date: 21 Aug 1992 13:52:00 GMT
Organization: Texas A&M University, Academic Computing Services
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41

In article <1992Aug19.231759.1@vax1.umkc.edu>, bstjohn@vax1.umkc.edu writes...
>Is anyone a Bruckner enthusiast? I adore his music and would love to start a
>newsgroup about him if anyone is willing to share their knowledge. Let me
>know! Here's the first question: Was Anton really a pedaphile? (sp?)

I am as interested in Bru:ckner's music as in DS's, and although I have
little time for or inclination toward a seperate newsgroup, I would 
surely be interested in discussing AB, with the kind permission of the
alt.shost. folks of course.

Here is an interesting little anecdote which I am fairly certain concerns
Bru:ckner:  ( I say *fairly* certain because I can't reemember the ref-
erence where I read this; I'm pretty sure it's true, though  :-) )

       Bru:ckner was very fond of, and profoundly influenced by, the
       music and paegentry of Wagner.  When a meeting between the two
       composers was arranged, Bru:ckner greeted Wagner in a most 
       formal and rigid style and then remained standing throughout
       the interview.  Ever afterword, AB refused to sit in Wagner's
       presence, insisting on honoring the composer in a way that 
       actually bothered Wagner and made him uncomfortable.

       Or so I've read. . . 

Good luck with other responses! 

***************************************************************************
  All opinions expressed by this user are well-reasoned and insightful. 
  Needless to say, they are not those of his advisor or university.

       Maybe you can argue that Americans are a bit lazy . . . 

       But at least we're not so lazy that we don't cook our fish. 

**************************************************************************
Newsgroups: alt.fan.shostakovich
From: s892024@minyos.xx.rmit.oz.au (Richard A. Muirden [GA])
Subject: Re: Shostakovich's 4th on Chandos (SNO/Jarvi) - detail (MISTAKE!)
Organization: RMIT Computer Centre, Melbourne Australia.
Date: Fri, 21 Aug 1992 13:13:36 EST

s892024@minyos.xx.rmit.oz.au (Richard A. Muirden [GA]) [me] writes:

>For those that were interested, Jarvi's wonderful recording of the
>4th symphony on Chandos is on CHAN 8630 (DDD). It's a wonderful
>recording and I urge you all to go out and get it, or at least
>listen to it!! :-)

OOPS!!!! What a mistaka to maka!!

CHAN 8630 is Shost 10 with SNO/Jarvi a fantastic CD!!

The 4th is CHAN 8640. More details to follow!!

-richard

-- 
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Richard A. Muirden, System Administator, Wesley College :)
E-Mail: ram@lionet.wesley.OZ.AU, s892024@minyos.xx.rmit.OZ.AU, ram@tintern1.?? 
----------------- Fanatic of Shostakovich and "Star Trek" ---------------------
From: bobs@hal.gnu.ai.mit.edu (Bob Sutton)
Newsgroups: alt.fan.shostakovich
Subject: Shostakovich Lovers Unite!
Date: 18 Aug 92 11:33:01 GMT
Organization: None, this is Anarchy!

What a surprise it was to me for this newsgroup to appear before my eyes!
I thought I was weird becuase I happened to love the music of Shostakovich. :)

Seriously, I glad that there are others who share my love of his music.
And that GIF of Shostakovich (circa 1935?) was terriffic.  Great thanks to
the fellow who posted it!

I've been following the above discussions about the Fifth Symphony.  It
is a remarkable piece.  But I haven't read anything about his Fourth,
which is, in my opinion, his second best (after the Tenth).  Never have I
heard such a piece of musical sarcasm, extreme violence, white noise, 
triumph, and (at the very end) delicate beauty.  I have three copies
(Kondrashin, Haitink, and Ashkenazy) of it, all very different 
interpretations, all of which highlight a different aspect of the 
symphony.  I want to know what you folks think.

Also, has anyone see "Testimony", the movie starring Ben Kingsley based
on Shostavkovich's alleged memoirs?  It's filmed mostly in black-and-white
like most of the still photographs of Shostakovich I've seen.  Captures
the spirit of the man, his music, and the times he lived in  very effectively.
Kingsley does an excellent job of portraying Shostakovich.

-- 
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Bob Sutton                        Love, most bitterly and fiercely oppresses
bobs@gnu.ai.mit.edu		  those who fight it than those who offer
al876@cleveland.freenet.edu       their servitude.i    -- Ovid (Amores)
Newsgroups: alt.fan.shostakovich
Subject: Mahler
From: bstjohn@vax1.umkc.edu
Date: Thu, 20 Aug 1992 05:14:51 GMT
Organization: University of Missouri - Kansas City

There is such an obvious Mahlerian influence in D.S.'s Music. Particularly the
Fourth and Lady MAcbeth. Anyone got any other good examples??
Newsgroups: alt.fan.shostakovich
From: s892024@minyos.xx.rmit.oz.au (Richard A. Muirden [GA])
Subject: Re: Shostakovich Lovers Unite!
Organization: RMIT Computer Centre, Melbourne Australia.
Date: Thu, 20 Aug 1992 17:36:30 EST

bobs@hal.gnu.ai.mit.edu (Bob Sutton) writes:

>I used to listen to Shostakovich all the time.  My first experience with
>the music of Shostakovich was in high school when I acquired 2 78s of a
>3-record set which contained what was then Shostakovich's only piano
>concerto.  I thought it was awful at first.  Then I realized that it 
>affected my mood.  Then I started getting LPs.  The first was the Tenth
>Symphony.  I found that it too has an affect on me.  I've had problems
>with chronic depression most of my life but I found that first movement
>reflected what I was feeling when I hit the low points.  I later found
>that a great deal of his work affected me in the same way.  The one big

YES!!! exactly! that first movement of the tenth is a masterpiece! And
oh boy from the low strings to the trumpet calls to everything it fits
a depressed person so well.. :-) (not a nice subject really but so
true)

>exception is the Fourteenth; I don't find much in that piece.  A friend
>of mine has subtitled it "9 cats and a hammer" and I have to agree
>with him.

Yes! I have this CD and hardly ever put it on, and if I do decide
I need to get my money's worth (:-)) I end up turning it off after
a little while because it is just so awful and everything...

yes the 14th... hmmm... yeah.. :-)


>-- 
>Bob Sutton                        Love, most bitterly and fiercely oppresses
>bobs@gnu.ai.mit.edu		  those who fight it than those who offer
>al876@cleveland.freenet.edu       their servitude.    -- Ovid (Amores)

-richard

-- 
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Richard A. Muirden, System Administator, Wesley College :)
E-Mail: ram@lionet.wesley.OZ.AU, s892024@minyos.xx.rmit.OZ.AU, ram@tintern1.?? 
----------------- Fanatic of Shostakovich and "Star Trek" ---------------------
From: bstjohn@vax1.umkc.edu
Newsgroups: alt.fan.shostakovich
Subject: isbn #
Date: 21 Aug 92 22:54:51 GMT
Organization: University of Missouri - Kansas City

will post ISBN as soon as i find my copy of the book. 
                 sorry, just moved.....:(
Newsgroups: alt.fan.shostakovich
Subject: post
From: bstjohn@vax1.umkc.edu
Date: Thu, 13 Aug 1992 22:21:22 GMT
Organization: University of Missouri - Kansas City

schnittke is still alive, but very old. didn't the question say IMPORTANT????
hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahah...........
Newsgroups: alt.fan.shostakovich
From: steve@fid.morgan.com (Steve Apter)
Subject: Re: GIF of Dmitri Shostakovich (circa 1942) [uuencoded]
Organization: Morgan Stanley & Co., New York, NY
Date: Mon, 17 Aug 1992 18:56:03 GMT


Very nice.  Thanks.

Can we hope that this initiates a portrait gallery project?

My vote:  Rued Langaard striking a modishly moody pose.
From: schroede@bnlux1.bnl.gov (gary l. schroeder)
Newsgroups: alt.fan.shostakovich
Subject: Re: Shostakovich Lovers Unite!
Date: 18 Aug 92 15:35:06 GMT
Organization: Brookhaven National Laboratory, Upton, NY 11973

In article <1992Aug18.113301.20445@mintaka.lcs.mit.edu> bobs@hal.gnu.ai.mit.edu (Bob Sutton) writes:

>I've been following the above discussions about the Fifth Symphony.  It
>is a remarkable piece.  But I haven't read anything about his Fourth,
>which is, in my opinion, his second best (after the Tenth).  Never have I
>heard such a piece of musical sarcasm, extreme violence, white noise, 
>triumph, and (at the very end) delicate beauty. 

These attributes are what attract me to just about all of his
symphonies.  The Fourth is also one of my favorites because of its raw
orchestral power, as you may have noticed that the orchestra required to
play it is inordinately large with a very big string section.  I believe
that even DS himself saw the piece as ego-maniacal because of its
instrumentation requirements.  Like a few other symphonic works he
composed, the Fourth is, in places, like being in the mind of a musical
mad man who, in his twisted rage, forces all of the instruments to cry
out in a huge discordant crescendo.  


> I have three copies
>(Kondrashin, Haitink, and Ashkenazy) of it, all very different 
>interpretations, all of which highlight a different aspect of the 
>symphony.  I want to know what you folks think.

I have only the Haitink version of it, and I had to search high and low
to find it.  After hearing Jarvi's terrific interpretations of Prokofiev
Sym. 3 & 4, I'd love to hear him give it a try.  I find the Haitink
versions very pleasing to the ear and have built my DS collection around
his recordings with the Concertgebouw (sp).

Here's a question I have for you all:  Now, I don't listen to
Shostakovich on a daily basis.  While I am a big fan, the CDs only come
out of the box every once in a while.  It has a lot to do with mood.  I
find that I reach subconsciously for them when I'm down or depressed.
The tragedy that he's able to express through his music is somehow
comforting in those situations.  What about the rest of you?  Does it
have anything to do with mood swings?
-- 
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Gary Schroeder	                |  Warning: prolonged exposure to this
schroede@bnlux1.bnl.gov         |  .sig may cause retinal damage and 
Brookhaven National Laboratory  |  blistering skin rashes.
Newsgroups: alt.fan.shostakovich
Subject: questions answered!
From: bstjohn@vax1.umkc.edu
Date: Thu, 13 Aug 1992 06:50:39 GMT
Organization: University of Missouri - Kansas City
From: mitch@lsil.com (Mitch Sako)
Newsgroups: alt.fan.rush-limbaugh
Subject: Re: Japan and capital gains tax.
Date: 12 Aug 92 19:54:36 GMT
Reply-To: mitch@lsil.com
Organization: LSI Logic Corporation

In article 17721@athena.cs.uga.edu, tedr@athena.cs.uga.edu (Ted Kalivoda) writes:
>In article <1992Aug11.172951.1972@spdc.ti.com> dostalik@epcot.spdc.ti.com (Bill Dostalik) writes:
>Well, the capital gains is plain stupid, and those on capitol hill that want
>it are loathing the thought of that money not being given to them.  Japan
>has no tax as such, nor Germany.  How can we compete with the world on a
>fair basis with a stupid tax in addition to individual income earning.

Ted,  I don't have the exact figures, but Japan and Germany have extremely
progressive tax rates.  I know they are well above 50%.  I also know that in
Germany, people who are in high positions, usually bypass salary increases and
take raises in the form of perks, cars, expense accounts, housing allowances,
etc.  Similarly, in Japan, expense accounts are a form of a perk, thus bypassing
the high tax rates (I think around 70% for someone making over $90,000).

Also, in Japan there are punitive capital gains taxes on real estate gains
which is why people don't turnover their houses so quickly (if ever) as they
do here.

---

====================================================================
Mitch Sako	LSI Logic Corp.		Phone	408-433-4187
internet:	msako@lsil.com		FAX	408-433-8796
uucp:		lsil!msako
RIME:		->REDBARON, conference=POLITICS
Disclaimer:	Opinions expressed are mine and only mine and do
		not reflect the opinions of my organization, my
		management, or my mother
Xref: sparky alt.fan.rush-limbaugh:4356 alt.rush-limbaugh:3542
From: dostalik@epcot.spdc.ti.com (Bill Dostalik)
Newsgroups: alt.fan.rush-limbaugh,alt.rush-limbaugh
Subject: Re: A fine opporitunity for flaming liberal flameage
Date: 12 Aug 92 17:20:28 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: TI Semiconductor Process and Design Center

In article <1992Aug12.005823.14573@seq.uncwil.edu> session@seq.uncwil.edu (Zack C. Sessions) writes:
>steve@celia.UUCP (Steve Tyree) writes:
>
>> I dont have the time for all these points. Can we not handle one at a
>>time. Prayer in schools. Conservatives stand for choice in schools. We
>>want schools privatised so students and parents can choose the school
>>which best represents the values and ideals they deem important to
>>themselves and the world. We want Big Government Totally out of the 
>>picture.
>
>According to the Clinton Economic Plan, he also a supports giving "every
>parent the right to choose the public school his or her child attends,
                                ^^^^^^
Conservatives are in favor of a choice of pulic *and* private schools.
A critical distinction, in light of the general failure of so many of
the public schools.  The best way to improve the public schools is to
force them to compete with the private ones.

And as a later poster noted, he has toned down his rhetoric considerably
since the NEA slapped him on the wrist with their rulers.  

Of course, the NEA is just trying to protect their monopoly just as any
monopolizing corporation would.  How dare you allow the poor choose to go to a
high quality private school?  They won't learn how to use condoms!  They may
even overhear a prayer!  I would guess most inner city parents are more
concerned about their children learning how to stay off drugs than they are
worried about the off-chance they may actually learn how to pray.  Repeat
after me:  A crucifix in urine is art, a crucifix in the classroom is un-
constitutional.

>as we have done in Arkansas".
>
>-- 
>Zack Sessions

- Bill Dostalik             Barry Switzer for President!
Newsgroups: alt.fan.rush-limbaugh
From: epowers@huey.NMSU.Edu (POWERS)
Subject: Re: Lots of new millionairs
Organization: New Mexico State University
Date: Mon, 17 Aug 1992 19:26:50 GMT

In article <mykes.0cb4@amiga0.SF-Bay.ORG> mykes@amiga0.SF-Bay.ORG (Mike  
Schwartz) writes:
> IMO, too much emphasis is placed on the fact that the number of millionairs
> increased from 4,000-6000 to 64,000 during the 80's.  I can come up with
> ONE blatant and obvious way that a significant number of them became  
millionairs.
> And you can't blame it on Reaganomics or the S&L crooks or anything like that  
:)
> 
> Consider the state lotteries...  If 10 states gave away $1,000,000 per week  
for
> 10 years, the lottery would have made 5,200 new millionairs.  Here in  
California,
> there are several weekly lotteries that can make a person a millionaire.  And
> often, there are big prize lotteries that have multiple winners (share  
millions).
> 
> Could it be that as many as 1/4 of those new millionairs are lotto winners?  
:)

	Extremely doubtful.  Lotteries almost never give the prize in one lump  
sum.  But it is an interesting idea to look into.
						Erik Powers
						epowers@dante.nmsu.edu
> 
> 
> --
> Amiga programmer of: GRn, MailMinder, Budokan, Beyond Dark Castle, Dark  
Castle
> Sega Genesis programmer of: Dick Tracy and Marble Madness.
> Mike Schwartz  (ames!zorch!amiga0!mykes or mykes@amiga0.sf-bay.org)
> 1124 Fremont Ave.
> Los Altos, CA 94024
From: tedr@athena.cs.uga.edu (Ted Kalivoda)
Newsgroups: alt.fan.rush-limbaugh
Subject: Re: Clinton & Taxes: 7% f
Date: 20 Aug 92 15:16:55 GMT
Organization: University of Georgia, Athens

>You just can't get
>something for nothing.  The constitution grants us 'the right to the
>pursuit of happiness', not a right to happiness.  There's a rather big
>difference.  And the Dems have never understood it.  Or perhaps, they do
>understand too well, and get rich and powerful over it.
>
>Regards,
>Todd

This reminds me of the ABC news lastnight, where they were discussing the
so-called failed economic agenda of Bush.  A thousand points of light was
discussed and then Jennings says, "but that doesn't help Jack Mimmers of
Ohio..he's out of work."  Like, the gov. is supposed to guarantee his job? 
When is someone going to tell Peter, Dan, and Tom that this is not a
socialist country.  Did they forget?  They are whiners.  Let us now call
them whiners.  

Ted K.
Newsgroups: alt.fan.rush-limbaugh