From: underdog@leland.Stanford.EDU (Dwight Joe)
Subject: Re: Strike at Saturn?
Organization: Miners for a Heart of Gold
Distribution: na
Date: Mon, 31 Aug 92 05:50:39 GMT

In article <1992Aug30.200936.9400@news.cs.indiana.edu>
alyoung@kiwi.ucs.indiana.edu (Amy Young Leith) writes:
>In article <1992Aug30.221408.6859@leland.Stanford.EDU>
>underdog@leland.Stanford.EDU (Dwight Joe) writes:
>>Think again.  And don't bring Germany into this.  We are debating
>>the auto complexities between the USA and Japan.
>He was making a comparison between other foreign car markets, however
>it was off the point. 
>>Tell me, Mr. Clayton.  Do you think that Accord owners in the USA
>>would pay ~$24,000 for an Accord?
>Depending on what options you get, that just may be what you pay these
>days. 

Ms. Leith, there you again.  You are trying to twist what I said.

I am saying that a similarly equipped Honda Accord costs the _same_
in the USA and Japan; the amount is ~$14,000.

However, a similarly equipped Pontiac Gran Am costs ~$14,000 in the
USA but ~$24,000 in Japan.  This _is_ _unfair_.

>>This statement is about as intelligent as the previous statement by you.
>Can you not discuss or debate without underhanded comments such as
>this?  I'm beginning to wonder. 

As soon as you stop twisting what I say, I will avoid these comments.

>>Who the hell are _you_ to tell someone what to sell?  Who the hell
>>are _you_ to tell someone what amount will "justify the expense"?
>>The point is that there should be free markets.  The access to the
>>Japanese market should be as open as the American one.
>I *agree* with this.  However, this is not the case at hand.  What do
>you suggest we do, besides whine about it?  Restrict the Japanese
>imports?

Tic for tac.  The American car in Japan has an effective $10,000 hike.
The _same_ should happen for a Japanese car in the USA.

So, the Honda Accord will now cost ~$24,000.

>However, doesn't this just reinforce the American car makers
>who will then have less competition to continue to make inferior
>products?

Again.  You are making assumptions.  The competition is still
there, but the Honda Accord now costs ~$24,000.

(By the way, my Japanese roommate agrees with me that there is a
_huge_ price discrepancy between the costs in the USA and Japan
of an American automobile.)

Furthermore, countries which provide reciprocal access to its
markets will have free rein to export its automobiles to the
USA without an artificial jack up of $10,000.  From these
countries, there will be the competition to hone American
sensibilities in auto manufacturing.

>Why improve your product if people have no choice but to
>buy it? 

People do have a choice.

See above.

>What are the other solutions to this problem?

See above.

>>We should let the market decide what constitutes an inferior product.
>>That's all that economists and I want.  Equal access.
>>I just "love" stupidity like this.  Let's look at the statement made my
>>Mr. Clayton:
>>   "Her point was why sell an inferior product in a market where
>>    it will obviously lose?"
>>This statement is bullshit.  It is made frequently by pseudo-free traders.
>It was also wrong in it's assumption of my point.  My point was that
>even with a drop in prices, I did not believe that American car sales
>would rise significantly in Japan, this based on the opinions voiced
>by those who were from there. 

Again, let the Japanese consumer decide.  If the car sucks, no one
will buy it.  But let John Doe have equal access to the market.

You do not know with certainty what will happen if the Japanese
import restrictions are removed.  The Japanese say the same thing
with regards to the rice issue; they say that Japanese won't buy
American rice because it tastes bad, etc.  Note that American rice
is actually 1/7 the cost of Japanese rice.  Thai rice is even cheaper.

I say, "Let the consumer decide."

>...
>You need to slow down when you read, or perhaps read the whole post
>before you post yourself.  I agree with fair trade, and what the
>Japanese are doing to American car makers is not "fair."  Please,
>instead of screaming about it, let's talk about what can be done about
>it.  God knows I'd much prefer to be able to buy a car made my my
>neighbors and feel confident with it.  

As I said before, "Let's do tic for tac."

This will have miraculous results in Japan.  In the summer of 1991,
the American gov't forbid any further Japanese contracts on public
works projects in the USA until the Japanese opened up their public
works projects to American companies.  There was a huge outcry
from the Japanese gov't and American pseudo-free traders saying, "Those
damn American bullies.  The Japanese can't meet the American ultimatum.
There's just too much red tape and tradition."

Well, after 3 days or so, the Japanese gov't suddenly discovered
tons of public works projects on which American companies could bid,
where the lowest bidder wins.  Gee.  Isn't that special?

>My point was, again, that the imbalance in ease of trade was not the
>only problem relating to poor sales of American autos overseas. 
>I never said that A should not be able to sell products to B because C
>didn't like them. 

Good.  We agree on something.

>...
>>The American policy should be "If you expect free access to American
>>markets, then we expect free access to your markets.  Otherwise,
>>we'll play tic for tac."
>Any insight into why Bush does not feel this way?

Politicians and pseudo-politicians are like used car salesmen.
Ya can't trust them.

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Seikatsu no imi wa nan desu ka.            \|  |`      | Don't buy from Toyota;
Shitte itara oshiete kuremasen ka.          | -+-      | especially, don't buy
                                           /| / \      | from Capitol Toyota in
Copyright 1992.                                        | San Jose, California.
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Newsgroups: rec.autos,rec.autos.vw