HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: ewright@convex.com (Edward V. Wright)
Subject: Re: Inflammatory rhetoric (History v. dreams, period songs, consort gender)
Date: Wed, 9 Sep 1992 16:09:21 GMT
Organization: Engineering, CONVEX Computer Corp., Richardson, Tx., USA
X-Disclaimer: This message was written by a user at CONVEX Computer
              Corp. The opinions expressed are those of the user and
              not necessarily those of CONVEX.

Lindorm Eriksson (Christer Romson) writes:

>Corpora doesn't link sexuality to royalty, and people consider it OK when
>the ruling couple isn't romanticly involved, but in most places in te SCA
>fighting for ones loved one in crown torney (if one have one) is considered
>the thing to do. Corpora's denying that posibility to homosexuals. 

Hm.  Well, I can't see how the Corpora is denying any
possibility to homosexuals that it isn't denying to me.
I can't fight for a loved one in Crown Tourney either
because I'm not a stick fighter and Corpora prohobits
anyone who isn't a stick fighter from competing in
Crown Tournament.  As a practical matter, being male,
I don't even have a chance of finding someone to fight
for me in Crown Tournament.  Yes, there are some female
fighters around, but not all that many.  Certainly not
many who are both unattached and capable of winning
Crown Tourney, so that just isn't a realistic possibility.
(Sometimes I wonder if it's a realistic possibility to
find any lady who's interested in me, but that's another
story.) 

If the purpose of the Corpora is to discriminate against
homosexuals by not allowing them on the throne, why does
it prohibit many heterosexuals from sitting on the throne
as well?  And why does it not discriminate against homosexuals
holding other SCA offices or even becoming members?  If the
framers of the Corpora meant to discriminate against homosexuals,
they certainly went about it in an incompetent manner.

-- Nicholas van Leyden
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
From: whheydt@pbhya.PacBell.COM (Wilson Heydt)
Subject: Re:  Pennsic Security
Organization: Pacific * Bell, San Ramon, CA
Date: Wed, 9 Sep 1992 21:16:08 GMT

Just something to take under consideration when thinking about hiring
security for some or all of Pennsic . . .  Doing so implies that you
think they'll supply some specified level of security.  Given the
litigious nature of the US, are you sure you want to imply to *anyone*
that anything is secure?

	--Hal

        Hal Ravn, Province of the Mists, West Kingdom
        Wilson H. Heydt, Jr.,  Albany, CA 94706,  510/524-8321 (home)
-- 
Hal Heydt                    |    "Boycott Time-Warner"
Analyst, Pacific*Bell        |         --J. Danforth Quayle
510-823-5447                 |    "... kill all the lawyers."
whheydt@pbhya.PacBell.COM    |         --William Shakespeare
From: Beth.Appleton@f4229.n124.z1.fidonet.org (Beth Appleton)
Sender: FredGate@ocitor.fidonet
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Sitting on the fence (was Re: Pentacles/Consorts)
Date: Mon, 14 Sep 1992 18:08:30

 AN> I find the idea of prohibiting registration of two 
 AN> symbols to be puzzling.
 AN> I do not think it is effective in its goal.  
 AN> Anybody can display a pentacle
 AN> anywhere, thus allowing the local religious zealots 
 AN> to see it on every pouch,
 AN> pendant and, yes, shield.  While the Corporation 
 AN> can indeed reassure the
 AN> local religious zealots (or suspicious Satan-
 AN> hunting cops) that there is no
 AN> corporate sanction for the use of the symbol, I 
 AN> think the net ill effect is
 AN> no different.
Well, it *does* give the local "authorities" (seneschal, etc.) some 
 leeway.  For instance, here in the Steppes we've got several folks 
 who wear pentacles as jewelry -- no problem.  I (personally) would 
 also have no problem with the gentleman who stamps a pentacle into the 
 armour he manufactures -- that's also hard to spot from a distance. 
      I can't think of any concrete examples, locally or otherwise, 
 but I know *I'd* go have a talk with anyone who was displaying a banner 
 or shield with a pentacle, *especially* if it was at something open to 
 the public -- a demo, or a feast at a church where it'd be visible 
 to the great unwashed.
       By not registering it, Corporate didn't spike my guns so that 
 we'd have to allow it, no matter the physical danger presented by 
 the display.  The Bible Belt is a peculiar place to live......
       The difference, to me, is (again) a matter of perceptions of the 
 great unwashed.  Jewelry and attire are the preference of those 
 wearing them.  Banners are *perceived* as representing the group. 
 Most Americans (IMHO) have lost the perception that one banner= one 
 person. 
     OTOH, if your local area is "cool", then there is no problem, no 
 great unwashed who might go wacko on the whole group, and the license 
 to do as one pleases is uncompromised.
     Gwenllian Cwmystwyth ferch Morfudd
       Steppes, Ansteorra (Dallas, Texas)

 * Origin: Herald's Point * Steppes/Ansteorra * 214-699-0057 (1:124/4229)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
From: mittle@watson.ibm.com (Josh Mittleman)
Subject: Re: Mundane/SCA hopefull, needs German Surname refferences...
Date: Mon, 14 Sep 1992 20:13:26 GMT
Disclaimer: This posting represents the poster's views, not necessarily those of IBM
Organization: IBM T.J. Watson Research Center

Timothy wrote:

> I am seeking some references for a german surname.  

A very fine book is Brechenmacher, "Etymologisches Woerterbuch der Deutschen
Familiennamen," Limburg, 1963.  It is in German, but worth the effort.
Another good reference is by Adolf Socin, but I'm afraid I don't have the
title to hand.  Master Marten Broeker, a specialist on medieval German
naming, is happy to assist anyone who needs help; I can provide his postal
address if you and any other gentle needs it.

===========================================================================
Arval Benicoeur                                       mittle@watson.ibm.com
From: hwt@bcarh11a.BNR.CA (Henry Troup)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: safety for marshals (was: Re: Town Battle at the War)
Date: 14 Sep 92 12:36:58 GMT
Reply-To: Henry.Troup@BNR.CA
Distribution: world
Organization: Bell-Northern Research Ltd., Ottawa, Canada


|>they should be wearing something that is easily visible and instantly
|>distinguished from anything that most combatants would wear.  Reversing

I saw one marshall at Pennsic wearing a yellow construction helmet with
black swords painted on it.
                             
  Henry Troup - HWT@BNR.CA (Canada) - BNR owns but does not share my opinions
    "If your morals make you dreary, depend on it, they are wrong" - R.L.S.
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
From: ag1v+@andrew.cmu.edu (Andrea B. Gansley-Ortiz)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: more on inspiration
Date: 14 Sep 92 15:49:47 GMT
Organization: Engineering Design Research Center, Carnegie Mellon, Pittsburgh, PA

Gentle people, I recommend me to you.

All the talk of inspiration and putting one's love on the throne
has made me think a great deal about who 'inspires' me and about
the bigotry that has happened to me in my own life. 

I have been trying to put myself in others shoes, and find that
even though I've had similar experiences in different venues, that
I truly don't understand. Maybe one day I will. But the posting
of the good teacher Yaakov, reflects some of what I feel. That 
although things sometimes are discrimnatory against my favor, that
I usually don't feel this a bigotry or maliciously intented. 

In some instances in my life this has not been the case, but I find
that I seem to see differences in intent in those cases.

Something that surprises me about a comment of Aisla's even though
without experiencing it, I know it must happen. She has been persecuted
for kissing her wife in public. My best friend and I, try to meet once
a week for lunch since we work near eachother, but live far. And we
always greet and part with a hug and kiss. Why have I received no
persecution (or not noticed it)? I mean, she and I have a pattern. 
If people were out there hating so much, they could use it as an oppor-
tunity to show their hate. Do I simply look 'heterosexual'? I don't
go on that street often. So people who travel that street would only 
see me with her or by myself.

On to inspiration. There are many gentles who inspire me. I tell one
such individual in almost every missive I send him. People inspire 
me in different ways to do different things. Some inspire me to better
my self emotionally, others to become more learned, and still others
to try to be courteous. 

I don't fight, and truly don't plan to presently. However, there are
people who I love that could inspire me to fight for a crown for them.
And one of those people is a woman. I would dearly love to see a friend
of mine on the crown because I think she would do such a splendid job.
None of these people who I would want to put on the throne if I fought
are my romantic partner. He is new in the society, and even if I did 
fight, I couldn't think of asking him to do that.

I don't know if I have a specific point in mind to my ramblings. But
I present it to you here as food for thought. May the Saints preserve
us all.

Written the 14th day of September, from my home in the Debatable Lands.

Su segura servidora,
            Esmeralda
From: bq434@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Michael A. Chance)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: History vs. dreams (Was: consort gender)
Date: 8 Sep 1992 22:43:35 GMT
Organization: Case Western Reserve University, Cleveland, OH (USA)
Reply-To: bq434@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Michael A. Chance)
NNTP-Posting-Host: slc5.ins.cwru.edu


In a previous article, rancke@diku.dk (Hans Rancke-Madsen) says:

>...then I think you should remember that the dreamers were there first.

Now, I could be wrong (I've only been in the SCA about 11 years), but...

The stories I've heard from a few folks who were there in the early
years (First Tourney, and all that), like Siegfried von Hochlichkeit
(sp?), Diana Listmaker, Frederick of Holland, et al, was that the idea
was to re-create the atmosphere of a High Middle Ages tournament,
complete with knights in (sort of) shining armor, damsels, minstrels,
etc.  Very much the romance of Mallory, Roland, the troubadors, and the
like.  The folks wanting to be elves, fairies, wizards, etc ad nauseum,
came a good bit later (and nobody much cared for them, but they were to
polite to tell them to go away).  Perhaps some of our distinguished
elders on the Rialto who remember the early years could enlighten us as
to the reason _they_ began to play our game.

Yes, the SCA was founded by dreamers.  But their's (and mine) was a
dream of Arthur and the Round Table, Richard Lionheart, Harald
Hardraadi, Byzantium and the Crusades, St. Louis, Jean d'Arc, and the
Renaissnace visions of Leonardo, Michelangelo, and Raphael (the artists,
not the turtles), not the dreams of Elfquest, D&D, or Glenda the Good
Fairy.

Mikjal Annarbjorn
-- 
Michael A. Chance          St. Louis, Missouri, USA    "At play in the fields
Work: mc3078@sw1sta.sbc.com                             of St. Vidicon"
Play: bq434@cleveland.freenet.edu
      mchance@nyx.cs.du.edu
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
From: vnend@phoenix.Princeton.EDU (D. W. James)
Subject: Re: consort gender
Originator: news@nimaster
Organization: Princeton University
Date: Tue, 8 Sep 1992 21:26:40 GMT

In article <12154@optilink.UUCP> samlb@optilink.UUCP (Sam Bassett) writes:
)In article <1992Sep5.005704.8573@news.cs.brandeis.edu> tabron@binah.cc.brandeis.edu writes:
)>As a witch I would like you to clarify just why you think the public
)>associates "mass murder" with pentagrams? 
 
)	Charles Manson.
 
)	You may not be old enough to remember "helter skelter" clearly,
)and to have been exposed to the flood of anti-pentacle literature that
)was dumped on the market in the early '70s.  It waas truly amazing, the
)level of paranoia . . . .
 
)>but I have never seen a pentacle get the kind of negative reaction one
)>has to a swastika. 
 
)	Yup. I'll admit _you_ probaably never have seen that kind of
)reaction -- but that doesn't mean it doesn't exist.  Ever been in the
)back country in Alabama, Georgia, or Mississippi -- or the deep Central
)Valley of California, for that matter?  Things are _very_ different
)there.
 
	Or New Jersey.  I have (at least I think I still have it) a newspaper
article with a (color) picture of a pentacle spraypainted on a wall in an
abandoned house with various lurid headlines.  It isn't limited to the
American south...

Kwellend-Njal

-- 
Vnend, Lottery winner #316                 Ignorance is the mother of adventure.  
vnend@princeton.edu, vnend@pucc.bitnet, or {backbone}!princeton!nudity!vnend        
        Anonymous posting service (NO FLAMES!):vnend@ms.uky.edu                          
"After a one-day strike by librarians and other protests by similar radical       activists..."  David Tanguay
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
From: mittle@watson.ibm.com (Josh Mittleman)
Subject: Re: George Romero, Knight Riders
Date: Thu, 10 Sep 1992 18:25:33 GMT
Disclaimer: This posting represents the poster's views, not necessarily those of IBM
Organization: IBM T.J. Watson Research Center

Greetings from Arval!  Tux asked:

> What happened at that Crown Tourney in BMDL such that folks were
> motivated to splinter off and start the MSR?

A delicate question.  Here are the facts (as collected from various sources
including several MSR members, Sir Andreas Hak & his historical survey of
the East, Countess Aidan, Duke Vissevald, and others): Andreas de Vulpes
(mka Bob Fox) had formed a corporation called Medieval Studies and
Recreation, which was a demo squad in and around NYC.  It was originally
formed because he and his co-demo'ers wanted to run their demoes
independent from the SCA, Inc., and wanted a separate treasury.  Keep in
mind that in those days (about 12 years ago), the corporation was a great
deal less well-organized, and (from the point of view of any serious
Easterner) a lot more intrusive than it is today.

King Vissevald held his Crown Tourney in BMDL.  One of the finalists was
Andreas de Vulpes.  Andreas was disqualified from the tournament for
failing to accept blows; as I have heard it, this was a problem all through
the day, and he had received other warnings.  Andreas was furious and
decided that the SCA was beyond rescue.  He and his household decided to
split from the SCA entirely.  The MSR, being already incorporated, became
their new organization.  Internally, they called themselves the Kingdom of
Acre.  They still exist today with a reasonably large population in and
around NYC.  There is extensive membershipoverlap with the SCA, and
attendance at each other's events.  The East and Acre have had a treaty of
friendship and mutual support for at least six or seven years.

===========================================================================
Arval Benicoeur                                       mittle@watson.ibm.com
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
From: C_PUFFER@unhh.unh.edu (Charles   Puffer)
Subject: population and membership
Organization: University of New Hampshire
Date: Sat, 12 Sep 1992 21:24:11 GMT
X-News-Reader: VMS NEWS 1.12

Greetings unto the good people of the bridge
	from Loard Duncan Forbes

	There has been some debae on the secost of Stonemarche about
SCA saturation. So I would like to find out from collage groups in the 
known world what is the size of your group and the size of you collage 
or univercity. If people cold please send there answeres to
C_puffer@unhh.unh.edu I will do some math and post a resonce in a week
or two.



[_-_-_-_-_]            
 |       |______________     Charles Puffer
 |      /             /  \   C_PUFFER@UNHH.UNH.EDU
 |    /_____________/      \
 |    |            |  |^|  |        Lord Duncan Forbes
 |    |            |  | |  |         Barony of Stonemarche
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
From: jtn@nutter.cs.vt.edu (Terry Nutter)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Inflammatory rhetoric
Date: 8 Sep 92 21:25:09 GMT
Followup-To: rec.org.sca
Organization: The Rialto

Greetings, all, from Angharad ver' Rhuawn.  In response to Arval's call for
moderation, T. Archer wrote,

>>T. Archer offered:
>>
>>> Those who fail to goose-step to the turn of the rigid reproduction of
>>> life in the Old Middle-Ages are persecuted. 
>>
>>I hope you were intentionally exaggerating, Archer.  
>
>I am not.  I have seen filk-singers cat-called down at revel and turned away 
>from bardic circles.

This is more than I have seen or heard of; but I do not question your
experience.  Still, last I read up on WWII, the Nazis did rather more 
than cat-call and turn people away from circles.

Indeed, I had rather someone made cat-calls at me, and asked me not to
perform, than be called a Nazi.  I wonder why you find the one an offense
and persecution, but not the other?

But there's a different reason not to call people Nazis.  It doesn't 
convince anyone that you are right.  It just pisses off the targets, and 
gathers them sympathy from corners where they might not otherwise get it.  
It is not only bad manners, it is also bad tactics.

I have been in the SCA for a good while now.  I've lived in two kingdoms,
and travelled widely in a third.  I've never seen any of the behaviours
you describe.  From this, I infer that it is possible to avoid them without
too much trouble.  Perhaps I am wrong; but you yourself said that your own
group is reasonable and tolerant.  If another barony, at some distance from
you, is less so, I suggest that avoiding their events may be more to the
point than excoriating total strangers on the Rialto, who are certain to 
take it ill.

In any case, your concrete examples, much as I am inclined to study them
rather carefully, and see somewhat different things than you do in some
cases, are far more convincing than references to goose-stepping.  Perhaps
in future, if you are concerned to communicate your upset, you could give
the examples the first time, and skip the rhetoric.

In Service to the Society,

-- Angharad/Terry
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
From: aryk@gpu.utcs.utoronto.ca (A.J.S. Nusbacher)
Subject: Re: Prince of Thieves Wrongos
Organization: University of Toronto -- Hart House
Date: Mon, 7 Sep 1992 22:26:22 GMT

In article <199209071750.AA07512@meryl.csd.uu.se> vader@meryl.csd.uu.se ("]ke Eldberg") writes:

>Greetings from William de Corbie!
>
>Costner "Robin Hood" errors:

What's the point?  It's fiction!

One of the joys of writing or producing fiction is that you can have manhole
covers when you want them, and executioners can use anvils, and you can call
the Seljuk Turks "Turks".  If you're going to go after that sort of thing, you
can knock Bill Shakespeare for having clocks striking in ancient Athens.

>Not only did "Prince of Thieves" have a bad cast -- the story
>is also full of errors.

Bad cast?  It had Sean Connery AND Brian Blessed!  They could have cast
Pee Wee Herman as Robin and still had a good cast!

>Robin's father writes a letter asking news of his son; the
>hand is clearly a 19th century chancery-style script, very
>different from the bastarda or minuscules a real 12th century
>writer would have used.

And -- sacre bleu! -- it was written in English!

>When Robin's father rides out, he is overwhelmed by some
>20 men on foot. A mounted knight could easily have broken
>through such a skirmish line, killig a couple, and escape.

Thus providing a quick ending to the story, and saving us from hearing the
Sherriff of Nottingham explain to Guy of Gisborn why he wanted to cut Robin
Hood's heart out with a spoon.  Bad trade.

Nottinghamshire didn't have its own sherriff, either.

>If you have spotted any other stupid wrongos, do tell.

While I do appreciate the game of finding wrongos in "historical" flicks,
there also has to be a line drawn between fact and fiction.  Did Macbeth
murder King Duncan in his sleep?  Not likely.  Big deal.

The _Skeptical Inquirer_ published a review of the recent film _Flatliners_
in which it castigated the movie for poor representation of near death
experiences.  The SI was also missing the point that fiction is a sort of
white lie -- it entertains, and sometimes even tells the truth, by telling
untruths.

Aryk Nusbacher

Organization: Computer Operations, Carnegie Mellon, Pittsburgh, PA
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Date: Tue,  8 Sep 1992 14:12:32 -0400 
From: Gretchen Miller <grm+@andrew.cmu.edu>
Subject: Re: Using period words to refer to mundanities
	<m0mRkNw-0000s1C@sue.komunity.se>

Excerpts from netnews.rec.org.sca: 7-Sep-92 Using period words to
refer.. Christer Romson@sue.komu (1140)

>  Telephone for far speaker (telephone isn't more period, but if i have
> to mention them it won't point the fact out as much as far speaker
> does). 

Hear, hear!  For that matter, why not just use the word "call" (as in
"for questions call x at y") and "messenger" (as in "a messenger  for
lord z") .  Personally, I like to tell people "call and leave a message
with the servant".  "Servant that does x" is a wonderful generic term
for most things modern, especially where x is a task that used to
require a human (such as answering the phone and taking a message). 
After all, as gentle folk we would all have had servants of some sort.  

How about "Musicians in camera" for bard in a box.  Chief cook for
kitchen-o-crat.



toodles, margaret
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
From: bnostran@ds5000.DAC.Northeastern.edu (Barbara Nostrand)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Editorial Board Wanted (was Modest Proposal)
Date: 11 Sep 92 15:45:51 GMT
Organization: Northeastern University, Boston, MA. 02115, USA

Gentles!

It appears to me that the best approach to establishing a series of
publications of recreative research with a per-volume page count of
between 70 and 200 pages (as proposed) would be to first establish
the thing as a monograph series which can be purchased by subscription
but which would not necessarily appear quarterly.  If the thing is
to be a monograph series, then a series title like

				Studia Antiqua

would be more appropriate than would

				Journal of Recreative Research

The reason for this being that a "journal" is expected to have a fixed
publication schedule while a monograph series can be a little more
supply driven.  Now, since this is in the very earliest stages (in this
particular version at least) of being proposed either alternative is
possible.  I suspect that a monograph series could probably attain a
regular publication schedule within 2 or 3 years.  Part of the delay is
the simple fact that it may take an author 2 years to write a monograph
and thus it will take that long for those motivated by this thing being
instituted to start producing submissions and several months at least
to get them into print.

Regardless, I suggest that this thing be organized in a way analagous
to an academic journal or monograph series.  That is one or more chief
editors responsible for production with a board of editors responsible
for editorial content.

I truely believe that something of this sort would be a good thing to
establish within the society.  Thus, I will repeat my request for
comment and suggestions concerning the:  mission, editorial content,
publication schedule, organization etc of the proposed series.  But, 
I also ask individuals who might be interested in joining the editorial
board to write me.  Also, since this would be an A&S series, I hope that
people will suggest editorial categories.  Editorial categories can be
such things as calligraphy, weaving and dyeing, heraldry and onomastics,
music and dance, history and politics, philosophy, theology and science,
etc.  There are now many very knowledgeable people in the SCA (some of
whom even are the members of university faculties in the appropriate
departments) so I do not think it difficult to find people sufficiently
knowledgeable in any of these areas.  Beyond this, I hope that these
people will volunteer and be nominated for membership in the board of
editors by their friends.

						Your Humble Servant
						Solveig Throndardottir
						Totally Ignorant

Newsgroups: rec.org.sca