From: kadie@eff.org (Carl M. Kadie)
Subject: [eff.mail.ethics-l]  (none)
Followup-To: alt.comp.acad-freedom.talk,eff.mail.ethics-l
Originator: kadie@eff.org
Organization: The Electronic Frontier Foundation
Date: Sun, 11 Oct 1992 22:42:09 GMT

[A repost - Carl]

Newsgroups: eff.mail.ethics-l
From: POSTMASTER@POLYVM.BITNET (Undetermined origin c/o Postmaster)
Subject:  (none)
Date: Sun, 11 Oct 1992 07:54:58 GMT

        I will give you an example.  I now go to Empire State College, which
is part of SUNY.  Here they have computer policies which I am quite happy
with.  I admit my preferences are not all that objective.  All students and
faculty can get an account on the college system, and as long as they change
their password every six months, they can keep it.  Even after they leave the
college.  It has dial-in numbers and can be reached from anywhere by an 800
number.  There is no fee associated with the use of the computer.  Each person
has an initial storage quota, with a 500-block overflow.  I get 200-300 messages
a day and it was easy for me to get my quota increased.  Nobody hassled me for
exceeding my quota.  The drawbacks are that there are not many dial-in lines,
only two of them are 800 lines (which is usually OK because not many people
really use the system).  But network access is limited to bitnet and Telnet
(which I haven't yet really learned to use yet).  In order to download mail or
other files you have to transfer from one part of the Vax to another (I prefer
the CompuServe Information Get All Mail command, to read messages offline).
On the one hand, the system is a little primitive, but easy to use for anybody
to communicate around the world on subjects of interest.  ESC has a library
software package, but the numbers used are all long-distance toll numbers so
I just use the SUNY New Paltz dizl-up card catalogue (which is also primitive
but easy to use.  Their policy at ESC is to make computers and networks as
accessible as possible, and software and documentation are easy to get, as is
staff support.  The staff is polite and helpful.

        At SUNY New Paltz, I recently talked about my ESC network experiences
with the head of the political science department.  He did not know very much
about networks at all, and the college had not encouraged him to learn.  The
faculty at SUNY NP has email, but they mostly don't know how it works.  I
was later told that their network is not tied into any outside network.  There
were no plans anyone knew of to tie it in.  The students have no email even
on campus.  They can, if they use the communal file for beginning journalism
students, send each other messages, but most don't do that.  There is no
communication outside of the campus via the college system for individual studen
ts
or for student organizations.  It would be good for the various clubs on campus
to be able to tie into their counterparts on other campuses, but it can't
be done.  I was asked by one of my teachers to run a statistical search on
the system and to get a computer account to do so.  I talked to the college
computer people about such an account and never got an answer from them.  They
kept asking me why I wanted it, and didn't seem to accept my explanations.
Finally I told them to just get in touch with the teacher if they didn't
believe me, and he would explain.  While there I got a copy of the computer
system rules (I stole it).  It talked entirely about data processing and
data processing students doing research and programming exercizes.  It talked
in draconian language about how if anyone was caught doing anything not
connected to college work, especially if they were paid for it, they would
be kicked off the system and probably flunk their classes.  It is obvious from
the rules and the way they run the system that they looked on the computer
system entirely as an administration tool, not to be used by students or faculty
any more than absolutely necessary.  Their main concern was keeping control
over it, and they were terrified what anyone else would do if they had the
chance.  Somewhat similar to Brezhnev peoples' ideas.  The equipment in the
computer labs was nearly always in poor state of repair, with parts breaking
and being stolen.  You would be lucky if two or three of the terminals you
needed (there were three or four different types of terminals) were working
and not being used.  There was no documentation for any of the woftware being
used on the system, and there was never anyone in the computer office when
you went to ask for help or report a problem.  If there was someone there it
was either the wrong person or they didn't want to talk to you anyway.

        I think this is a nice contrast.  I am just talking here about basic
approaches to the use of computers.  I am not talking about places such as
Columbia University, where I guess many of us have heard about the computer
policies, the money charged, etc.  Some of what I have heard makes it sound like
the computers and their use by the students are seen as a source of money for
the administration.  I think the work of the students and faculty should
be a source of money, a source of prestige for the college, and a way for
the students to perform a socially useful task with their particular skills
and the work they do.  I am also not discussing any policies of colleges for
controlling the content of what students send and receive.  The one place I
have been to assumes that we're all adults and can be trusted.  The other
doesn't let us send anything at all or receive anything at all, so what we
send and receive doesn't matter.

        So what do you all think of ESC vs SUNY NP, and what are your
experiences?

                                        Chris Morrison
                                        CMorriso@snyescva.bitnet
-- 
Carl Kadie -- I do not represent EFF; this is just me.
 =kadie@eff.org, kadie@cs.uiuc.edu =
Newsgroups: alt.comp.acad-freedom.talk