From: Steve.Gross@bbs.oit.unc.edu (Steve Gross)
Subject: Re: Predestination Mr. Adams
Organization: Extended Bulletin Board Service
Distribution: usa
Date: Fri, 31 Jul 1992 19:21:58 GMT


Hello Mr. Adams,

You have yet to prove your point to me.  I don't understand what you mean
when you say I contradict myself.  I don't think I do.  Let me put it to
you this way, in a sort of sequence.  I may forget some things, etc.. but
you will no doubt understand my meaning.



1)  God is and always was since the beginning and before what we call time.

2)  God created life, for what reason, I don't know.

3)  God realized what would happen to man before it happened.  i.e.  the fall
    from grace of Satan.  The eating of the tree.  the turnover of control of
    this planet from Adam, to Satan, etc...

4)  God, in his infinite wisdom, and foresight, devised a plan of salvation
    for the race he had created.  That plan being of course his son, Jesus.

5)  At the appropriate time, God implemented this plan. 

6)  we have salvation through Christ.

Now, to fill in the holes a little.  If God recognized that a plan of
salvation was needed, wouldn't it make sense to figure that he knew who it
was for?  If God indeed saw the need for this plan before time, couldn't
he arrange for the plan to work on those people?

When Adam fell, did just he fall, or did humanity?  If humanity as a whole
fell, then wouldn't humanity as a whole be under the control of the "god
of this world?"  Can you seriously think that he, Satan, would let people
think of God?  Even better, can you see Satan saying, "Sure, go ahead and
choose Christ, I don't mind losing another soul."

Being God's right hand man for a good portion of eternity, Satan has to be
a little more powerful than you seem to be giving him credit for.  I
submit that Satan is MUCH more powerful than you or I.  Without Christ
that is.  Do you think that we could oppose him succesfully without the
help of the almighty?  I don't.  Hence my statement that we would never
choose God, because we were born into the servitude of Satan.  We were
born into Satan's kingdom.

Unless God chooses to intervene on our behalf, we have no choice other
than to serve satan.  That doesn't mean killing dogs, and drinking blood,
of course.  Serving satan merely means NOT serving God.  How do you
propose we choose god if we don't have the ability?

Isn't it awfully pridefull to say that we can either accept or not accept
a gift from the Almighty?  Doesn't that sort of emasculate him?  (wrong
word maybe?  Cut off all his power is better way.)  In essence, Mr. Adams,
you are saying that you are more powerful than the Almighty, because you
who he created can deny what he clearly wishes everyone to have. 
Salvation.  You may be a pretty smart guy, but I don't think I can accept
you being more powerful than God.

In the beginning of this, didn't Satan say he desired to be like God?  To
have the power and the glory that God has?  Sounds to me that you are
saying the same thing, only not as boldly.  Humans, whether mortal
individuals or not, DO NOT have anything to do with the salvation process.
 God initiates it, God gives the faith to beleive in his son, and God does
the saving.  Where does the human figure into that?  All you and I have to
do is hear the word of God and have an open heart.  WHICH GOD PROVIDES
THROUGH THE HOLY SPIRIT.  How much easier could that be?

God Bless,
Steve.Gross


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