From: eeb1@ellis.uchicago.edu (e elizabeth bartley)
Subject: Re: The Nurturing Network 1-800-TNN-4MOM
Reply-To: eeb1@midway.uchicago.edu
Organization: University of Chicago Computing Organizations
Date: Tue, 1 Sep 1992 01:13:43 GMT

I am reposting this article and will continue to do so until Suzanne
Forgach either publically apologizes to me for claiming that I've lied
to myself (about what abortion is) or publically declines to do so.

--- --- ---
In article <1992Aug21.185107.9237@noao.edu>
forgach@noao.edu (Suzanne Forgach) writes:
>From article <+shys6=@rpi.edu>, by cookc@aix.rpi.edu (rocker):

>> Fine, Forgach.  I am glad that you have shown me the depths to which
>> you'll sink, the hatefulness you'll spew to further your own agenda.

>Yeah right.  I post an article simply questioning your interpretation
>of an event years ago, and you get all bent out of shape.

You posted an article implying rocker behaved like a stupid
ten-year-old - a lying little ten-year-old - and she was angry with you.
Why the heck are you surprised?

>> Never once have I given you a single indication to think I was a
>> liar.  

>Cathi, ALL pro-choicers lie to themselves, at least a little bit, about
>what abortion actually IS.

Gee, Suzanne, thanks for calling me a liar, too.  Have any evidence
besides that I disagree with you wrt the worth of a z/e/f?

You know, I got a *lot* more comfortable with abortion when I started
reading embryology books.  Something to do with myelination and how
late in pregnancy a fetus's brain begins to be capable of significant
functioning.

The abortion issue is one of opinion and priorities.  It's generally
agreed that the egg and sperm don't have a full set of human DNA, that
zygotes do, that viability occurs before birth, that most e/fs will be
people at some time in the future (whether or not they are people
now), that pregnancy can sometimes greatly endanger women's lives,
that myelination takes place at 23-24 weeks, that 8 week embryos are
recognizably humanoid, that most pregnancies conceived by rape would
be very hard on the woman, etc., etc.  The dispute here is how much
these various facts matter.  Even if *you* have definitive evidence
that *your* opinions are correct ones - something I certainly do not
believe - others are not lying to themselves by believing otherwise
unless they have the same definitive evidence.

I want an apology, Suzanne, for your accusation that I am lying to
myself in my belief that the most crucial step in a z/'s development
is myelination rather than birth.  My opinion may be incorrect, but I
arrived at it by honestly and thoroughly considering all the evidence
I have.

--
Pro-Choice                 Anti-Roe                     - E. Elizabeth Bartley
            Abortions should be safe, legal, early, and rare.

--- --- ---

Thanks to those patient enough to have read this far.

General note: I may be *wrong* wrt the mortality of abortion.
However, my opinion is honest and not based on self-deception, and I
am furious that Mrs Forgach would think she knows me better than know
myself on this point.

-- 
Pro-Choice                 Anti-Roe                     - E. Elizabeth Bartley
            Abortions should be safe, legal, early, and rare.

Cthulhu for President -- when you're tired of voting for the lesser of 2 evils.
Newsgroups: talk.abortion