From: user@computer.uio.no (PC Jorgensen)
Subject: Re: Lappis (Was: Re: Non-Indo-Europ
Followup-To: soc.culture.nordic
Organization: UiO
Date: Tue, 15 Dec 1992 21:12:25 GMT


In article <1992Dec14.103933.1440@schaefer.math.wisc.edu>,
junikka@schaefer.math.wisc.edu (Jari Junikka) wrote:
> 

> I thought that Lappish (saami) is not Finno-Ugric.
> Or maybe I am just getting this idea from the fact that it's origins
> are not well known.
> 
> regards,
> 
> jari


Well, I do not speak Lapp myself, but every linguistics textbook I've ever
seen places Lapp in the Fenno-Ugric language family.
	I think, however, that the problem is modern linguists deem that Lapp does
not fit so very well into the "pattern" of this language family, being
rather different from the closest neighbouring language of the family.
Secondly, the speakers of Lapp are not racially very close to Finns, Vesps,
Estonians, Livonians, Karelians etc. etc (they are a thoroughly mixed
population, but with a very strong "Mongolian" streak, or so, at least, it
seems to me - This "streak" is much weaker in the Finnish population). So
some speculation says that the core of the Sami people originally did not
speak a Fenno-Ugrian language, but at some time in prehistory changed their
language. And then one could  postulate pidginization, substrates,
superstrates and akin processes...
	But, I don't know. I know, however, that an Estonian professor has
published a book about all the Fenno-Ugrian languages and their speakers
(very interesting book too, and available in Swedish), and he writes at
length about "the Lappish
problem" (my words, not his). I could try to dig up the relevant data about
this book (it's very interesting, not the least because he also writes
about all the smaller  and mainly extinct relatives of Finnish and Estonian
in ex-USSR/Western part of Russian Federation. Boy, some small peoples have
had a   v e r y   though time, indeed!)
	As a Slavist, I find it very interesting that the whole of Northern
Russian (down to and including Moscow - Moskva is _probably_ Fenno-Ugrian,
the etymology is unclear) once upon a time was _Fennophone_, and that some
features of the Russian literary languages, and even more Northern country
dialects, might be taken as influence from Fenno-Ugrian (but such themes
are often very disputable and difficult to pin down).
	Some of the tribes which eventually joined in the making of the Russian
people, were also Fennophone!
	Finally, I'd just like to add about the Lappish language(s), that the
Southern dialects (or languages) are said to be _more_ archaic than
standard (Northern) Sami. I heard recently a lecture about Aleut and South
Sami, with a view on language death in both communities of speakers, by
Norwegian veteran linguist Bergsland, who claimed this. I.e., Southern Sami
(Roeros Sami, Skolte-Sami) [so far that it is spoken at all, nowadays] has
kept some typically Fenno-Ugrian features that, for example the Kautokeino
[Finnmark, Norway] dialect has lost.
	But this is not really my subject. Sorry about the length...

	PC

-----------------------------

PC Jorgensen
Graduate Student
Department of East European and Oriental Studies
University of Oslo, Norway 
Newsgroups: soc.culture.nordic