HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: ba@mrcnext.cso.uiuc.edu (B.A. Davis-Howe)
Newsgroups: alt.pagan
Subject: Re: The Tarot
Date: 26 Sep 92 16:18:12 GMT
Organization: University of Illinois at Urbana

cortese@skid.ps.uci.edu (Janis Maria Cortese) writes:

>In article <25SEP199205345969@rosie.uh.edu> lib1p@rosie.uh.edu (Tammy Stark Blandino) writes:
>>
>>What we call the tarot is the origins of our modern day deck of
>>cards! You can play a game with the tarot or throw a reading with
>>playing cards.  They are both the same, except for the major
>>cards like the magician, the fool, etc. (I forget what they are
>>called at the moment. Ghod it is awful early in the morning for
>>this!)

>I actually have a question fron this.  In the original decks, the court
>cards were not reversible.  Now, they are.  Was there some
>ecclesiastical push tomake the cards symmetric about that axis?  Was it
>determined that reversing a card was "devilish" or something?

I suspect that the court images, as well as the pip indices, were made readable
from both ends so that people wouldn't have to rearrange their cards all the
time.  Practicality does that sometimes.


              Merry meet, merry part, merry meet again,
                               Br'anArthur

Queer, Peculiar, and Wyrd! :-)

******************************************************************************
Newage is hypoallergenic spirituality--
it's for people who are allergic to the word religion.
                                   --Jon Jay Obermark
From: twisted@bessel.umd.edu (Rick MacKinnon)
Newsgroups: alt.pagan
Subject: Re: Youthful experiences
Date: 6 Oct 92 15:12:06 GMT
Organization: University of Maryland

In article <1133@abb-sc.abb-sc.COM> ksm@abb-sc.abb-sc.com (Ashley) writes:
>
> Hullo folks - 
>
>	Anyway, I have noticed that these experiences are common to many of us 
>and aside from a family traditionalist who was trained from birth, I have never 
>met a witch who was voted Ms. Congeniality / Mr. Personality in school. What 
>are your experiences?

Well, I can safely say that Junior High School was the worst three years of my life.
(BTW, for context, Virginia Beach JH Schools are 7-9th grade.)  I was the wimp, the nerd,
the geek (I wore Toughskins with patches on the knees--yuck!)  In other words, I was
fodder for the maladjusted little psychos who just happened to get on at the same
bus stop I did.  I had my books taken from me, I was punched, kicked, tripped, or
whatever they felt like amusing themselves with.  They even threw broken glass at me
once (luckily their aim was bad).  PE class was as bad as it could get, and, as the
icing on the cake, my step-father made me take an Industrial Arts class in 9th grade.
(In 7th grade, my parents divorced.  By 8th grade, my mother was remarried.  By 9th
grade, my step-father revealed himself to be a total domineering asshole.  Yipee.)

All this talk about the good ol' school days (the "best days of our lives", remember?)
led to a very unsatifying discussion with my wife.  She was pretty well-adjusted
throughout school, so these experiences are totally alien to her.  I got to thinking
about if my daughter was going through the same things, how would I, as a parent,
handle the situation?  My first reaction, of course, would be to intervene, but I
know that it only makes the situation worse.  Unfortunately, my wife thinks that
my situation is unique and refuses to acknowledge that it could happen to our kids.
I'm definitely going to enroll my kids in basic Self-Defense classes to give them
a way to fight back (one skill I never had), but I know that physical defense isn't
always enough, especially for girls.

People always talk about how much harder the next stages of life are, and how in the
"real world" it's "a jungle out there."  But I think the most vicious society is in
the elementary and junior high schools.  The kids prey on weaknesses, fight diversity,
and loyalties are often untrustworthy.

More ramblings from Twisted
From: lib1p@rosie.uh.edu (Tammy Stark Blandino)
Newsgroups: alt.pagan
Subject: Re: Samhain at Janis's . . .
Date: 2 Oct 92 22:12:00 GMT
Organization: University of Houston
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41

In article <2AC94A83.15987@news.service.uci.edu>, cortese@skid.ps.uci.edu (Janis Maria Cortese) writes...
>In article <1aba65INN5rt@usenet.INS.CWRU.Edu> law10@po.CWRU.Edu (Lorrie A. Wood) writes:
>>
>>	Lovely!  I'm still a net.newbie, but I know I love the idea. But:
>>
>>	1) Where do you live?
>>	2) Is someone driving through Clevelabd that could pick up me-my roomie
>>(Jessica McGeary)?
>>	3) Am I even invited (or her), seeing as we're not *real* bona fide
>>pagans?
> 
>This certainly seems to have taken on a life of its own.  I can't
>promise to put anyone up, but if you all suddenly appear at my place on
>November 1st, burst through my door and carry me off for a hot chocolate
>and Ben and Jerry's debauch, I'm certainly not going to call the cops.
> 
>Now awaiting the great migration,
>Janis 
> 
>P.S.: I'm in Irvine, CA -- near Los Angeles. 

LOS ANGELES...Ugh.  My husband is originally from the SF Bay Area.
Guess what his opinion is? ;-).  Sorry, November 1st is too soon
to plan any kind of get together.  How about next Samhain!!!!

Tammy


(Just had to add the entire post so someone could get some use
out of their flamethrowers.  8-)
Newsgroups: alt.pagan
From: pharvey@quack.sac.ca.us (Paul Harvey)
Subject: Re: editing
Organization: The Duck Pond public unix: +1 408 249 9630, log in as 'guest'.
	<1992Sep27.025508.11625@wolves.uucp>
Date: Sun, 27 Sep 1992 18:01:13 GMT

In article <1992Sep27.025508.11625@wolves.uucp> 
wolfe@wolves.uucp (G. Wolfe Woodbury) writes:
>[Hmm, did we ever decide what the masculine/male equivalent to the Crone
>was?  Some days I feel so positively net.ancient!   "...he's been with
>us since before the beginning."  --I think we're all Bozos on this Bus]

The male parallel of crone is the patriarch, but there are some
differences. A crone can no longer give birth, but she can midwife and
she can still mother, a patriarch can still biologically father as well
as father. The key is that for women, the triple phases of
girl-woman-crone are hard biological facts, and for men, the dual phases
of boy-man are less-hard biological facts. Men can experience the ritual
of women, as outsiders, and visa versa. Three and two can give five.
Antelope freeway one half mile, antelope freeway one quarter mile,
antelope freeway one eighth mile, [if you lived here, you'd be home by
...], antelope freeway one sixteenth mile ...
From: jmm25@po.CWRU.Edu (Jessica M. Mcgeary)
Newsgroups: alt.pagan
Subject: Re: Danger of Repression
Date: 29 Sep 1992 02:26:17 GMT
Organization: Case Western Reserve University, Cleveland, Ohio (USA)
NNTP-Posting-Host: thor.ins.cwru.edu


We were taught how to meditate and do the self-hypnosis thing last year.
In catholic school. In health class. By the school nurse. With the blessing
of my principal. For the purposes of relieving stress.

Amazing what sort of filth gets taught in the schools nowadays! B-)

-- 
Jessica McGeary
jmm25@po.cwru.edu
Case Western Reserve University
Remember! Arguments should be FUN!
From: ailsa%ailanth.uucp@wang.com (Ailsa N.T. Murphy)
Newsgroups: alt.pagan
Subject: Re: books to avoid
Date: 30 Sep 92 14:58:27 GMT
Reply-To: ailsa%ailanth.uucp@wang.com (Ailsa N.T. Murphy)
Organization: Ailanthus Project

ST801706@BROWNVM.BROWN.EDU writes:

> Someone asked about the Laurie Cabot book, _Power of the Witch_
> (or something close to that).  Avoid avoid avoid.  Although she is
> definitely a colorful character, and her newspaper interviews are
> reasonable (I grew up near Salem, I've read some of them) her
> book is ultra-ultra-ultra feminist, as in the brand of feminism
> where all women are perfect and all men can sink into a swamp and
> die.  It's also incredibly ill-informed and gives all kinds of
> pseudo-history for Witchcraft as if it were the Truth.
>
>
i didn't notice any man-bashing in it, but it IS fluffy and awfully
silly.  and *I* have the HARDCOVER version *sigh*  not every book
bought on impulse is a good idea...

but i shall have to re-read it, cos i never considered cabot a feminist
at all, and i usually notice these things.

                                        -ailsa

=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
                    ailsa%ailanth.uucp@wang.com
Desire.  The weight of.  The weight of our              ________
desire.  Then laugh, cry, but laugh             Silence \      / Action
more than you cry, and when you hold               =     \    /    =
the world in your hands, love Her.               Death    \  /    Life
                     - Alma Luz Villanueva                 \/
From: radzy@ICSI.Berkeley.EDU (T. O. Radzykewycz)
Newsgroups: alt.pagan
Subject: Re: Ceremony Suggestions?
Date: 3 Oct 92 17:50:11 GMT
Organization: International Computer Science Institute, Berkeley, CA, U.S.A.

In article <11190037@hpfcso.FC.HP.COM> post@hpfcso.FC.HP.COM (David Post) writes:
> The short story is a boy is about to be born and I have been asked to do a
> ceremony for his circumcision.  Neither of his parents are Christian or have
> spiritual purposes in mind for doing this.
> 
> It is to be done for hygenic, aesthetic and medical reasons.

There are NO, I repeat NO, hygenic reasons for inflicting that
kind of deformity on a child.  If he can't learn to wash himself,
then he'll have cleanlyness problems whether he's circumcised or
not.

Medical reasons are possible, but they should be judged on a
case-by-case basis, rather than beforehand.  There USUALLY
isn't any medical reason to have it done.

As for aesthetic reasons, I hope this doesn't mean that the parents
are going to say to the child, "Drop your pants, hon, I want to
enjoy the aesthetics of your circumcision."   :-{
If not, then what *does* it mean?

> Besides comforting the child, I want to, in some honorable way, bury the
> tissue and say something about returning to the Earth and the Stars from
> which it and all of us came.

Why do you want to inflict the circumcision on the child if it will
require him to be comforted afterward?

Is there are honorable way to dispose of something you've taken
from someone without their permission?

> Has anyone thought about this, and is willing to share some ideas?

I've thought about it.  I think circumcision *as a normal practice*
is abhorrent.

Blessings!

		-- radzy

------------------------------------------------------------
					|  An it harm none,
	T. O. Radzykewycz	     	|  do as ye will.
	The Incredible Radical Cabbage	|
					|  "Just pray for a
	radzy@cogsci.berkeley.edu       |  tough hide and a
	        			|  tender heart."
	        			|    -- Ruth Graham
------------------------------------------------------------
Tribal Mother was old, and lay ill on a bed of moss and
fern.   Her hair was long and grey.   Her face was very
wrinkled.    Tamura'nun-pa thought:   How beautiful you
are, Mother, so old and wise.
From: thomas@eagles.uucp (Thomas Hoffman)
Newsgroups: alt.pagan
Subject: Re: Who do you kneel to when you pray?
Date: Fri, 02 Oct 92 09:11:46 CDT
Organization: Eagles Reaches Church of Asatru - Elder Hof

> 
> 	I would say that as far as I know contemporary Judaism does not
> confirm the existance of other gods (no I'm not Jewish - but I grew up on
> Long Island!  Surely that qualifies me!  :)   but now that you mention it -
> heck there is some weird stuff lurking in Judaism.  Does anyone know for
> sure what the Judaic position _now_ on other gods is?  It would be
> interesting ...
> 
> Cheers,
> Carl
 carl,
    i know this is a little off the subject intended but, it could be pertinant.
in the book _Shamanism: An Expanded View of Reality_ compiled by Shirley
Nicholson there is a paper written by a rabbi that tells about the growing
reamergence of traditional jewish shamanic practices. 
    the book is published by The Theosophical Publishing House, Wheaton,Ill.
they have an address for more info. it is The Theosophical Publishing House,
306 West Geneva Rd. , Wheaton, Ill. 60187.
    anyway the paper i'm refering to was written by Rabbi Yonassan Gershom. it
shows the similarities between the traditional jewish shamanic practices and 
it's relationship to other traditions.
    hope this helps.
well met and wassail
Thomas of House Hoffman

                           /\
                          / l\
                         /  l \
                            l
                         l  l  l
                         l  l  l
                         l\ l  l
                         l \l  l
                       * l  l\ l *
                         l    \l
                         l     l
                         l     l
From: pharvey@mipos3.intel.com (Paul Harvey)
Newsgroups: alt.pagan
Subject: Re: The Serpent
Date: 6 Oct 92 20:41:17 GMT
Organization: Intel Corporation, Santa Clara, CA USA

Serpents and dragons shed their skin, ie crawl out of their old skin and
into their new skin. That's a metaphor. What does it mean to you?
Newsgroups: alt.pagan
From: blchapma@eos.ncsu.edu (BEKKI LYN)
Subject: Re: another poem
Originator: blchapma@c00000-118dan.eos.ncsu.edu
Reply-To: blchapma@eos.ncsu.edu (BEKKI LYN)
Organization: North Carolina State University, Project Eos
Date: Sat, 3 Oct 1992 19:35:33 GMT


In article <1992Oct2.042159.8299@pasteur.Berkeley.EDU>, radzy@ICSI.Berkeley.EDU (T. O. Radzykewycz) writes:
|> Bekki Lyn, I just wanted to let you know that there are other people
|> who don't get suckered into the societal norm.  You're not alone!
|> (I'm sure glad *I*'m not alone in this.)

In fact, my partner's fingernails are always longer than mine.  He 
doesn't do anything with them to make them that way; they just grow
fast.  Kind of makes some certain people want to kill, eh?  (heh heh heh)
-- 

Bekki Lyn

************************************************************
"Today is within my reach, and tomorrow's so illusive
 But I'm still chasing time to increasing disillusion
 Forever looking for the future of an illusion."

 -- FATES WARNING-- "Perfect Symmetry"
************************************************************
From: cortese@skid.ps.uci.edu (Janis Maria Cortese)
Subject: Re: New Janis Name
Newsgroups: alt.pagan
Organization: University of California, Irvine
Date: 30 Sep 92 21:31:23 GMT

In article <1992Sep30.142225.23187@access.digex.com> corun@access.digex.com (Corun MacAnndra) writes:
>In article <2AC949C0.15881@news.service.uci.edu> cortese@skid.ps.uci.edu (Janis Maria Cortese) writes:
>>In article <29SEP199217552510@rosie.uh.edu> lib1p@rosie.uh.edu (Tammy Stark Blandino) writes:
>>>New name for Janis
>>>
>>>alt.pagan.big.mama
>>>
>>>8-)
>>>
>>>Tammy
>>
>>Howzabout alt.pagan.witch.bitch?  Or just alt.pagan.bitch?
>>
>>Blessings,
>>Janis 
>
>Naw. I don't think "bitch" fits you very well. Your insights have lighted
>many dark corridors for me. Even your flames give off light and warmth.
>I won't presume to give you any "title", but will instead be content to
>call you "friend."

How about alt.pagan.hellraiser?   

>BTW, have the pictures arrived yet? They went out Friday last.
>
>Bb,
>
>Corun

Yes, sweetie, they did, and I didn't have your address to tell you!
They made me acutely homesick, but I love looking at them.  Thank you!

Blessings,
Janis 

Newsgroups: alt.pagan
From: pharvey@quack.sac.ca.us (Paul Harvey)
Subject: Re: Halloween
Organization: The Duck Pond public unix: +1 408 249 9630, log in as 'guest'.
	<1a3u50INNsbb@stanley.cis.Brown.EDU>
Date: Sun, 27 Sep 1992 18:23:44 GMT

In article <1a3u50INNsbb@stanley.cis.Brown.EDU> 
SL500000@brownvm.brown.edu (Robert Mathiesen) writes:
>7) Condemnation of Hallowe'en by organized religion?  Not so much
>when I was young as now.  This too is relatively recent, and has to do
>with a kind of emerging Christian totalitarianism.  This movement is
>simply a heresy in traditional Christian terms, but an increasingly
>popular one.  It is definitely evil in a way that goes beyond
>run-of-the-mill evil.

Agreed. Of course it's to be expected, it is after all their Devil, the
Christians are responsible for invoking the Christian Devil. It is the
rest of us non-Christians and moderate Christians who must deal with the
resulting chaos from the invocation of such a vile creature. The Lord's
(or Lady's) Kingdom is right here, right now, only most don't see it for
what it is. If you see Hell, Hell is what it becomes. If you see Heaven,
Heaven is what it becomes. You are what you eat, you are the deities
that you invoke, you are what you are, you are that you are.
Newsgroups: alt.pagan
From: corun@access.digex.com (Corun MacAnndra)
Subject: Re: Pagan Magazines (was A Novice Asks...)
Keywords: Paganism
Organization: Express Access Online Communications, Greenbelt, MD USA
Date: Mon, 5 Oct 1992 13:39:32 GMT

In article <1992Oct5.015042.20617@newstand.syr.edu> pkappess@erc.cat.syr.edu (Peter Kappesser) writes:
>
>Green Egg is alive and well, unless something dire has happened in the last
>month or so... (hmm, the Mabon issue should have been out by now, shouldn't
>it?) I just got a shipment of some back issues and the 1993 calendar.

Thanks for the assurance about Green Egg. Guess I should subscribe to it
instead of trusting to the vagaries of bookstores. ;-)

I also just encountered New Moon Rising that you mentioned. I haven't had
a chance to read it thouroughly yet, but at a glance it looks interesting.

Aside to Becky. I just remembered a bookstore in Georgetown called Yes.
They may be closer to you than the one I mentioned in Takoma Park.

Bb,
Corun

-- 
===========================================================================
    Corun MacAnndra    |
  Dark Horde by birth  |      Forewarned is a Hindu god.
    Moritu by choice   |
From: ailsa%ailanth.uucp@wang.com (Ailsa N.T. Murphy)
Newsgroups: alt.pagan
Subject: Re: Who do you kneel to when you pray?
Date: Sun, 27 Sep 92 09:49:31 EDT
Reply-To: ailsa%ailanth.uucp@wang.com (Ailsa N.T. Murphy)
Organization: Ailanthus Project

billn@hpcvaac.cv.hp.com (bill nelson) writes:

> corun@access.digex.com (Corun MacAnndra) writes:
> :
> : As such, I think it would be inappropriate to take the name of your
> : particular god or goddess in vain, and I think all of you who do
> : rituals know the power of a curse or blessing, even if it's not inte
> : Words have power, and those invoking your deity, or the energy sourc
> : that you focus upon, could carry repercussions you might not intend,
> : upon the object of you invocation, or upon yourself. Remember the ru
> : kharma, and how the mandala turns.
>
> Why? Most gods/goddesses are not as insecure or vain as the Christian
> Why not use the name(s) of your god(s) if you feel it gives your praye
> whatever) more power? How can invoking a deity be taking the deities n
> in vain? If you, like many/most pagans do, feel that the deities are w
> as well as without, then you are (in a way) calling on your inner self
>
to me, swearing vituperously is somewhat insulting to the deity as
well, or it is when *I* do it.  and swearing my my deities, who
generally don't have names, would be difficult.  besides, "jesus h.
motherfucking christ" is also offensive to a lot of people, a very
useful thing in a swearword.  said in the right tone of voice, it tends
to make the average person somewhat nervous, and they back down.  this
does NOT say nice things about me, but i never lose an argument when i
am furious.

> As another thought. Why not be frivilous and irreverant, on occasion.
> does religion have to be all seriousness and fear? I personally could
> worship a god/goddess who could not laugh at a good joke on occasion,
> if it was about the deity.
>
there is a happy medium though.  one can refrain from laughing at
one's deity without going to the opposite extreme of cowering.  for
myself, i HATE being laughed at.  i'm certainly not going to do it to
someone/somethign i like...

                                        -ailsa

=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
                    ailsa%ailanth.uucp@wang.com
Desire.  The weight of.  The weight of our              ________
desire.  Then laugh, cry, but laugh             Silence \      / Action
more than you cry, and when you hold               =     \    /    =
the world in your hands, love Her.               Death    \  /    Life
                     - Alma Luz Villanueva                 \/
From: lib1p@rosie.uh.edu (Tammy Stark Blandino)
Newsgroups: alt.pagan
Subject: Re: Witches and death
Summary: flame bait!
Date: 2 Oct 92 21:45:00 GMT
Organization: University of Houston
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41

In article <1992Sep29.174908.19760@radian.uucp>, markbr@radian.uucp (markbr) writes...
>In article <P2omRB3w165w@hogbbs.scol.pa.us>, wce@hogbbs.scol.pa.us (Bill Eichman) writes:
>> wrasman@cs.utk.edu ('Walker Of Change') writes:

.stuff deleted...
> 
>Actually, Iwonder, if there is such a thing as reincarnation, if you
>have a choice nowadays, since there are more people alive, *now* than
>have *ever* lived. Or are there just *lots* of first-timers?
> 
>	mark

A *REAL* good book on this is _Messages_from_Michael_ by Chelsea
Quinn Yarbro and the followup _More_Messages_from_Michael_.
I think the thing I like best about it is that this entity that is
being referred to as Michael says to not believe him just 'cause he said it.  
Go out and test it for yourself.  I have found that what he says tends to
work.  It has had an effect on the way I view things now.

Tammy
From: blchapma@eos.ncsu.edu (BEKKI LYN)
Newsgroups: alt.pagan
Subject: Re: Pagan Rock Artists
Date: 30 Sep 92 16:35:48 GMT
Reply-To: blchapma@eos.ncsu.edu (BEKKI LYN)
Organization: North Carolina State University, Project Eos
Originator: blchapma@c00040-100lez.eos.ncsu.edu


In article <9209292223.AA19122@ucbvax.Berkeley.EDU>, ST801706@BROWNVM.BROWN.EDU writes:
||> Queensryche doesn't have strong religious overtones one way or the
|> other, but they did have a _great_ song about lucid dreaming
|> ("Silent Lucidity") on their latest album _Empire_.
|> 
|> And that's the latest from the hard rock corner...
|> 
|>                                        WenD

And speaking of hard rock/metal, I will now inject yet again my
own favorite Fates Warning.  I don't know their religions, but
the music is very pagan to me.
-- 

Bekki Lyn

************************************************************
"All's well at the midnight hour; you're ready to fly
 Don't think about the darkness, or the rumbling in the sky.
 Somewhere on the morning road just waiting for you
 Some things that just could never be are calling up a
   spell so you can see..
 Dream Evil, the dark that you find in the back of your mind
 Dream Evil Dream Evil -- DIO --
************************************************************
From: eburke@phakt.usc.edu (Kethry)
Newsgroups: alt.pagan
Subject: Re: Mysterious Ways
Date: 5 Oct 1992 12:36:17 -0700
Organization: University of Southern California, Los Angeles, CA
NNTP-Posting-Host: phakt.usc.edu

I listen to just about everything except rap...Right now, though, Erasure
and Enya are the two most listened to in my car...:)

Bright blessings,
Kethry
eburke@huey.csun.edu
eburke@aludra.usc.edu
*****************************************************************************
The Earth is my Mother, the Sky, my Father.  Between them I live, forever I
love.......