HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: wwhitman@nevada.edu (MICHAEL WISE)
Subject: Re: Mummy vs. rectangular ??
Organization: University of Nevada System Computing Services
Distribution: na
Date: Mon, 12 Oct 1992 16:38:57 GMT

In article <1992Oct11.205927.7733@scott.skidmore.edu> pvonk@scott.skidmore.edu (Pierre VonKaenel) writes:
>After using my synthetic rectangular bag since 1980, I'm definitely
>getting a down bag (I'm getting old, the bag gets heavier with each
>passing year, my backpack's getting no lighter).  I just got back from
>an overnighter, it got cold!  Been thinking.... what about a mummy
>style bag?  

Mummy bags are the best design for keeping you warm, which is why
top manufacturers use only mummy construction on their top of the line
bags (they also use hoods, which I'm not fond of). Mummy design requires
that less internal space has to be warmed and prevents "cold pockets".
Also, since a mummy uses less fabric and lofting material, it is light-
er than similar rectangular bags.
However, your questions are valid:
>	1)  Do mummies constrict you too much in not-so-cold weather?
I have a five degree bag, because I camp mostly in the mountains of Colo-
rado and Utah, and I prefer being a little warm to being a little cold.
But when I use it in warmer weather, I just unzip the thing from top to
bottom. Some backpackers discuss the relative merits of full zippers and
half zippers with regard to weight (full zippers are marginally heavier), 
but as far as convenience goes, like opening up a bag or zipping two bags
together, I'd go with the full (There was some talk a few years back about
a sheet that zipped in to your sleeping bag, creating a double bed in
essence, with a cotton sheet on top, and the sleeping bag on the bottom.
That would be a true warm weather solution).
>	2)  Does it drive you nuts not being able to swing your
>	    feet apart in the bag?
Yes. But you can have fun flailing your feet around like a tail and
creating a general uisance. I'm a flailer too, and that's what I do.

>	3)  What about turning (back to stomach to side, repeat....)?
>	    Is a mummy only good for a deep sleep in one position?
The bag is meant to move with you. This sometimes works, and sometimes
doesn't. I always get the hood stuck in my face while cold air from
the ground rockets down the back of my neck or a zipper gets misplaced and 
I wake up with it tattooed to my shoulder. So, I suppose that one-
position sleepers have some advantages with mummies. But I would still
choose one since the one I have, a North Face Snowshoe (or Snowprint)
has served me well in many different conditions, even substituting as a
bed on occasion.

>In short... Is a mummy bag only advisable for colder weather (they
>_do_ make a 3 season mummy.. ?? ) ?

Yes, they do make three season mummies. North Face makes some good ones,
and you can usually rent them to try them out first. 

Michael Wise
Fearing and Loathing in Las Vegas
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
From: "Michael Smith" <p00004@psilink.com>
Subject: Re: Encountering contraband in the backcou
Organization: Performance Systems Int'l
Date: Fri, 9 Oct 1992 14:39:23 GMT
X-Mailer: PSILink (3.2)

>DATE:   Wed, 7 Oct 1992 15:49:50 GMT
>FROM:   David E. Damouth <damouth@wrc.xerox.com>
> One friend of mine
>had an encounter with such [moonshiners in the Kentucky hills].
>  After they satisfied themselves that
>he wasn't a fed, they fairly politely suggested that he hike elsewhere
>in the future.

How'd he manage to convince 'em he wasn't a Fed? That might be useful 
information someday.

--Michael Smith
From: jojo@leland.Stanford.EDU (Joanne Spetz)
Subject: Re: Encountering contraband in the backcountry
Organization: DSG, Stanford University, CA 94305, USA
Date: Fri, 9 Oct 92 00:00:33 GMT

michael= "Michael Smith" <p00004@psilink.com>

me>>My SO and I have heard the same advice for contraband encounters...since
me>>I'm from CA and he's from HI, the item of concern is marijuana.

michael>Matter of curiosity: Have you and/or SO ever actually had anything 
michael>like a run-in with contraband growers? If so, what happened?

My only encounters have been in college dormitories, but they knew I
wasn't a narc!

The SO stumbled into a large field of it in his home state with friends
accidentally (HI's industry is HUGE) when he was young.  If I remember
his story correctly, they didn't see anybody but thought they heard 
voices and ran like hell down the mountain.  He returned home with many
bruises and was a bit scared because of the stories he'd heard about
paranoid growers.

We plan to do a Mendocino trip later this fall and are aware of the
possibility...

Joanne
-- 
Joanne Spetz				Economics Department
jojo@leland.stanford.edu		Stanford University, sunny CA

Political advice to Mr Bush:  "Dumpe Quayl"
From: johnf@Auspex.COM (John Fereira)
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
Subject: Backcountry in the Movies
Date: 14 Oct 92 23:23:50 GMT
Organization: Auspex Systems, Inc.

In article <1992Oct13.204940.8475@jpl-devvax.jpl.nasa.gov> nancy@hayduke (Nancy Feagans) writes:
|In article <Oct13.193442.70812@yuma.ACNS.ColoState.EDU> trzyna@CS.ColoState.EDU (wayne trzyna) writes:
|>This is just a brief note of thanks to whoever it was that
|>suggested I see the movie Milagro Beanfield Wars.  I saw it
|>last friday and enjoyed it very much.  
|
|Wayne: and you have, of course, seen "NEVER CRY WOLF" ...  This is one of
|my all-time favorites :-)

This brings up an interesting possible thread.  That is, a discussion of
movies which were not actually about the backcountry but featured some good
shots of the backcountry,  while being good movies in their own right.  

A couple that I can offhand...

White Fang:  although it wasn't the greatest of movies the scenes in Alaska
were quite incredible.

The Gods Must Be Crazy (I & II) -  The original was one of my favorite movies
and I finally saw the sequel just awhile back and if anything it was better.
It is filmed in Africa and is a comedy, and adventure, and it's documentary
style not only provides some dry humor but also is educational.  It also
makes some pretty serious social commentary.  The shots of the wildlife and
scenery of Africa are great.

Of course there's always "Deliverance".

>
>-- 
>
>Nancy J. Feagans     (818) 306-6423
>Jet Propulsion Lab   nancy@jpl-devvax.Jpl.Nasa.Gov
>"Not a shred of evidence exists in favor of the idea that life is serious."


-- 
+==========================================================================+
| John Fereira        | Auspex Systems | "Ask me about my vow of silence." |
| johnf@auspex.com    | Santa Clara CA |                                   |
+==========================================================================+
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry,rec.climbing
From: jojo@leland.Stanford.EDU (Joanne Spetz)
Subject: Re: Encountering contraband in the backcountry
Organization: DSG, Stanford University, CA 94305, USA
Distribution: usa
Date: Wed, 7 Oct 92 08:19:17 GMT

>>In <1992Oct2.233521.26251@newshost.lanl.gov> mwj@beta.lanl.gov (William Johnson) writes: 
>>Hey, this really got me thinking.  From prime-time news shows, news-paper
>>articles, jungian group conciousness or whatever, I've got this weird
>>impression of backcountry marijuana patches, coca plantations, etc... that
>>supposedly litter the American backcountry that are defended by booby-traps,
>>men with machine-guns, etc...

My SO and I have heard the same advice for contraband encounters...since
I'm from CA and he's from HI, the item of concern is marijuana.

When hiking, if one stumbles upon a "plantation" one should say as loudly
as reasonable "I do not want to be here.  I am hiking and lost the trail.
I will be leaving now to find the trail."  Then high-tail it out of there,
looking carefully for booby-traps.

Not being well-versed in military and drug warfare, I'm not really sure
about all the signs of booby-traps, but if you're in the situation, 
improvise!

Jo
-- 
Joanne Spetz				Economics Department
jojo@leland.stanford.edu		Stanford University, sunny CA

Political advice to Mr Bush:  "Dumpe Quayl"
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry,rec.climbing
From: trzyna@CS.ColoState.EDU (wayne trzyna)
Subject: Re: At last! Deyhydrated beer
Date: Thu, 08 Oct 1992 22:36:54 GMT
Organization: Colorado State University, Computer Science Department

In article <BvtDvK.6wK@inews.Intel.COM> jreece@sousa.intel.com writes:
>
>Packaged Beer Lightens The Load
>
>PRODUCT: South Hills dehydrated beer.

Dehydrated beer?  Oh, you mean scotch.


-- 

-Wayne Trzyna
 trzyna@CS.ColoState.EDU
From: trzyna@CS.ColoState.EDU (wayne trzyna)
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
Subject: Re: Backcountry in the Movies
Date: 15 Oct 92 17:58:47 GMT
Article-I.D.: yuma.Oct15.175847.28029
Organization: Colorado State University, Computer Science Department

cheu@venus.its.uci.edu (Kelvin Cheu) writes:
> anymore ?
>
Runaway Train -- one of my favorites.
-- 

-Wayne Trzyna
 trzyna@CS.ColoState.EDU
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
From: rburnett@sirius.UVic.CA (Rick  Burnett)
Subject: Re: Bears attacking people?
Organization: University of Victoria, Victoria, BC, Canada
Distribution: na
Date: Wed, 14 Oct 92 01:56:43 GMT

mssmith@afterlife.ncsc.mil (M. Scott Smith) writes:
   First, I didn't hear any details about what happened at Yellowstone --
   exactly what did the person do to provoke the mother bear?  Did he just
   stumble upon the bear and her cubs, accidentally, and get attacked?  Or
   was he making funny faces at the bear, or what?

   (Basically, was it HIS fault?  What I've read so far seems to indicate that
   it was his fault, although I haven't seen evidence that it was.  If he was
   just hiking and got attacked by the bear, I would tend to feel pity for
   him and I wouldn't have the attitude that "yay, finally the bear strikes
   back!"  So please fill me in on the details.)

I think we have to think carefully about what constitutes "HIS
fault".  If you wake up to find some creature wondering through your
nursery it is quite likely that you would kill it.  Is the event
his/her fault?

The creature might feel that it has a right to wonder about wherever
it likes so long as it doesn't try to harm any other creature.  It may
not understand the human concept of homes and land ownership and
intends no harm to your children but stumbled into your nursery
accidentally.

As humans we've drawn borders around parts of the world which we are
willing to share with other creatures (wilderness areas) are parts
which we are not willing to share (our own homes).  Other creatures
have done the same.  Unfortunately, the borders overlap.

Do we have the right to protect what we perceive as our homes from
intruders (no matter what their intent)?  Do other creatures?  It's
more complex than their fault or our fault.

It is a shame that their was any violent death in Glacier park.  I'm
sure nobody feels any triumph for either party.
--
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Take care.  Take risks.    |      By means of the easy and the simple we
Rick Burnett               |      grasp the laws of the whole world.  When
University of Victoria     |      the laws of the whole world are grasped,
rburnett@sirius.uvic.ca    |      therein lies perfection. - I Ching
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
From: bblohm@boi.hp.com (Bill Blohm)
Subject: Re: Gregory Backpacks
Date: Wed, 14 Oct 1992 17:49:00 GMT
Organization: Hewlett-Packard / Boise, Idaho
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1.4 PL6]

You might also see how adjustable they are to fit your body.  Some are very
adjustable, others are not.  I don't know about this particular pack, but
thought it worth pointing out.  I have an internal frame pack since I do
XCskiing back-country and wanted it as snug as possible.  Along with all the
straps, I could also adjust the frame to fit exactly against my back.

********************************************************************************
Standard disclaimers apply, even if nobody ever listens to me.
********************************************************************************

Bill Blohm     

bblohm@hpbs1686.boi.hp.com     \\
mage@hpbs202.boi.hp.com         ========\  You pays your money, takes your pick.
bill@hpbs202.boi.hp.com         ========/  They all reach me, or soon or late.
bill_blohm@hp4600.desk.hp.com  //
                           
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
From: jemorti@relay.nswc.navy.mil (Jack Mortimer - K31)
Subject: Re: Neophyte tent groundsheet question
Organization: NSWC
Distribution: na
Date: Wed, 7 Oct 1992 16:47:15 GMT

In article <BvrD8F.1Do@news.cso.uiuc.edu>, racg8670@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (Becca ) writes:
|> I suggest a space blanket (if you have a 2 person tent)...
|> 
|> and you can get one just about the perfect size for a small tent for only
|> $5...
|> 
I shopped for one of these last year, for many of the same reasons and for
use as a ground cloth.  I did not find one for anywhere near that price.
In fact, the best price I could find was around $10.  Where are these
available for $5?  And BTW, I am thinking of the blanket that has one side
silver and one side a colored plastic (mine is red).  I did not consider the
emergency space blanket that folds to nearly pocket size.
Jack Mortimer
jemorti@relay.nswc.navy.mil

Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
From: cas@bjerknes.colorado.edu (Cathy Smith)
Subject: Re: Backcountry in the Movies
Organization: NOAA Climate Research Division
Date: Thu, 15 Oct 1992 19:25:00 GMT

In article <2ADCF533.26898@news.service.uci.edu> cheu@venus.its.uci.edu (Kelvin Cheu) writes:
>
>These are the few I can think of:
>
>	Gorilla in the mist
>	Medicine Man
>	K2
>	Dances with Wolves
>	....
>
>anymore ?
	Shoot to Kill (Sidney Poitier, Tom Berenger and Kirstie Allie)
	had a long backpacking segement (with a deranged killer in the
	group). It was set in the Selkirks (I think) but filmed in BC.

-- 
cas@noaacrd.colorado.edu
From: trzyna@CS.ColoState.EDU (wayne trzyna)
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
Subject: Re: Identifying snakes
Date: 7 Oct 92 16:32:29 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: Colorado State University, Computer Science Department

Try "uname -a"

(HP-ers will understand.)


-- 

-Wayne Trzyna
 trzyna@CS.ColoState.EDU
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry,rec.climbing
From: jreece@sousa.intel.com (John Reece)
Subject: At last! Deyhydrated beer
Reply-To: jreece@sousa.intel.com
Organization: Intel - Information Technologies
Date: Thu, 8 Oct 1992 17:57:20 GMT

Taken verbatim from today's San Jose Mercury-News:

CONSUMER CORNER

Packaged Beer Lightens The Load

PRODUCT: South Hills dehydrated beer.

DESCRIPTION: A beer-flavored, non-alcoholic, carbonated, dry beverage
made with maltodextrine, natural and artificial beer and malt flavors,
dried beer, and corn syrup solids.  It's packaged in 5-ounce (150g)
packet that must be mixed with 8 fluid ounces (250 ml) of cold water
for drinking.

PRO: It has a refreshing teste, though a bit sweet, and is best when 
mixed with extremely cold water.  Its taste is remarkably similar  to
beers produced by micro-breweries.  It's a quick source of liquid
carbohydrates, ans it's easy and light to pack and mix.

CON:  The instructions say to wait for the head to subside after
mixing, but that takes better than 5 minutes...  In very cold water
the mix clumps up unless you add water slowly and stir constantly.

COMMENTS: Although it doesn't compare to a fine lager, it suffices
quite nicely when your taste buds crave a cold one in the backcountry
and you don't fancy carrying a six-pack.  The manufacturer mentions one
can add clear grain alcohol or vodka to achieve an alcoholic beer. 

SUGGESTED RETAIL:  $5.95 for 6 packets.  

COMPANY:  Executive Network, Inc.  765 Mimosa Ave., Eugene, Oregon. 97405
          (503) 343-3558


-- 
John Reece			"This lifeboat is full"	
Not an Intel spokesman
From: mccallum@ug.cs.dal.ca (brad)
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
Subject: re) bear mace
Date: 16 Oct 92 00:37:26 GMT
Organization: Math, Stats & CS, Dalhousie University, Halifax, NS, Canada

Being a geologist in the N.W.T Canada I'm familiar with "bear mace"
the label on the can says......If I remember correctly
 "effective range approx 30m"
It also says that the product must be registered to a specific user
I guess they do this so people don't  go robbing banks with it!!!
The spray is colored (orange I think) so any returning bear can be identified.

If a grizzly was charging me, I don't think I would have the nerve/balls/aim
to sit there and squirt mace in it's eyes!!!(even from 30m)
I think I would spray myself hoping the bear would just ignore me
as I rolled around on the ground screaming in pain!!!!:>
just my 2 cents worth   :>
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
From: molnar@Bisco.CAnet.CA (Tom Molnar)
Subject: Re: Bears attacking people?
Organization: UTCS Campus Access
Date: Thu, 15 Oct 1992 17:42:00 GMT

In article <1992Oct15.162722.3740@afterlife.ncsc.mil> mssmith@afterlife.ncsc.mil (M. Scott Smith) writes:
# Out of curiosity, is there any way to protect oneself against a bear
# (besides taking preventive measures; let's assume you're hiking and you
# come across a bear and s/he's not too terribly pleased about it)?
# ...
# (I'm actually serious about the aerosol can..  Would something be effective
# against a bear attack, blinding the bear so you could run away, or would
# it just tick off the bear?)

Scott, there is just such a product on the market.  It's called "Bear Guard".
It comes in a aerosol can, and the active ingredient is capiscum (sp?)
which is derived from pepper.  Some call it "pepper spray".  The spray
is very effective if you can apply it soon enough.  The spray is touted
as being harmless in that the victim is not harmed in any permanent
fashion (but they or it are in agony for about 20 minutes).

I've seen the results of this spray and I'm convinced about its effectiveness.

Smaller versions of this spray are available for protection against dogs
as well.

You should find this product in surplus/camping outlets.

Regards,
Tom
From: duanej@hpfcso.FC.HP.COM (Duane Jacobson)
Date: Wed, 7 Oct 1992 18:23:52 GMT
Subject: Re: Bear bells
Organization: Hewlett-Packard, Fort Collins, CO, USA
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry

>For the last 15 years I've had a small but loud cowbell
>hanging from my backpack to warn bears of my presence.
>I lost the bell this summer, and can't find another one.
>Available bells seem to be too small (quiet) or big (heavy).

I was in Denali NP last summer, and they were recommending
that you NOT use bells on your pack.  I guess they think
that bears might mistake you for a squeaky ground squirrel.

I've always thought that a hand grenade would make a good
bear deterrent, but haven't seen it recommended anywhere.
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
From: damouth@wrc.xerox.com (David E. Damouth)
Subject: Re: Encountering contraband in the backcou
Reply-To: damouth@wrc.xerox.com
Organization: Xerox Webster Research Center
Date: Wed, 7 Oct 1992 15:49:50 GMT

 have been killed by marijuana growers
>in remote parts of California.  

That same kind of story is told about the Kentucky hills, only replacing
marijuana growers with bootlet whiskey distillers.  One friend of mine
had an encounter with such folks.  After they satisfied themselves that
he wasn't a fed, they fairly politely suggested that he hike elsewhere
in the future.

---
/Dave
David E. Damouth
Xerox Webster Research Center
damouth@wrc.xerox.com
voice: 716-422-3186
fax: 716-265-7133


Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
From: dean@rtsg.mot.com (Richard Dean)
Subject: Re: Encountering contraband in the backcountry
Reply-To: dean@gold.rtsg.mot.com
Organization: Motorola Inc., Cellular Infrastructure Group
Date: Wed, 14 Oct 1992 18:14:51 GMT

In <1bd6qlINN8cr@moe.ksu.ksu.edu> diverson@phys.ksu.edu (David Iverson) writes:

>My understanding of the situation is that the Law lets you do just about
>anything you want to people who are trespassing such as shoot them and such,
>one key is to keep the body on your side of the property line.

This varies from state to state.  When I was in college in Oklahoma a
few years back there was much commotion on the proposed "make my day bill"
I believe it came down to where you would still be held accountable for
the injury/murder of the trespasser, but if you could show that you or
your family was in a real risk of harm, then it was justifiable.  This
is vague enough that many things would probably be able to pass as
justifiable.

>However, the Civil Law lets the trespasser sue your ass for just about
>anything in the world, such as tetanus for getting hung up on a barbed-wire
>fence, twisted ankles for falling in a ditch, and, of course, BIG
>settlements if you shoot at said trespasser.

>In my opinion, both are totally crazy.

I agree that the trespasser/burglar whatever can sue
you because they fell on your skates/etc is simply stupid.
That reminds me I need to move my skates out from under
my window in case somebody breaks in I don't want them
getting hurt.

>-diversion

/richard
From: trzyna@CS.ColoState.EDU (wayne trzyna)
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
Subject: Milagro Beanfield Wars
Date: 13 Oct 92 19:34:42 GMT
Article-I.D.: yuma.Oct13.193442.70812
Organization: Colorado State University, Computer Science Department

This is just a brief note of thanks to whoever it was that
suggested I see the movie Milagro Beanfield Wars.  I saw it
last friday and enjoyed it very much.  

-- 

-Wayne Trzyna
 trzyna@CS.ColoState.EDU
From: pgheit01@ulkyvx.louisville.edu
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
Subject: Re: Neophyte tent groundsheet question
Date: 8 Oct 92 00:29:42 GMT
Distribution: na
Organization: University of Louisville

In article <1992Oct7.155125.17736@walter.cray.com>, hens@snipe.cray.com (Tom Stephens) writes:
> 
> In article <1992Oct6.220637.2288@tellab5.tellabs.com>, jcj@tellabs.com (jcj) writes:
>> A beginner's question (apologies if there's an FAQ for this group):
>> 
>> What's the best way to keep dry when sleeping on the floor of
>> a relatively cheap tent?  Most books suggest a plastic groundcloth 
>> under the tent, but a few say that the nylon/cotton will wick up 
>> water that might get trapped between the floor and groundcloth and 
>> you should put the plastic inside on the floor.  A friend who used 
>> to do Civil War reenactments says to lay down a layer of straw but 
>> that's less than practical.  I have three (high density) pads but 
>> they don't help if you roll off.  Consensus?  Thanks.
> 
> 
> I use a plastic cloth *inside* the tent.  No problems yet.
> --
> ---------------------------------
> Tom Stephens
> Corporate Computing and Networks, Chippewa Falls, WI
> Cray Research Inc.  hens@cray.com

I recently had my cheap dome tent start leaking on me.  What I tried was a can
of Kiwi "Camp Dry."  I sprayed it on the outside of the floor and on the rain
fly.  I did leave the walls alone so that I didn't ruin all of the
breathability.  I figured that if it ruined the tent I didn't care since I was
so sick of the thing.  Turned out that the stuff worked great.  So well that I
had to mop up puddles that formed when I came in soaking wet from the rain.  I
used almost the whole can on my tent, just to make sure I got it real good ;-) 
One thing I should have done was set up the tent and let it air out better. 
Those fumes really pack a punch!  Probably didn't do much for flame retardance
either.  I got the stuff at K-Mart for about $3.50.  

BTW:  I don't work for Kiwi, and your mileage may vary.
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
|pH Fred == pgheit01@ulkyvx.louisville.edu    |         "What we lack         |
|        == ..!psuvax1!ulkyvx.bitnet!pgheit01 |   in enthusiasm, we make up   |
|           University of Louisville          |         for in apathy."       |
|                Louisville, KY               |                               |
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry