HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: trumpins@alexia.lis.uiuc.edu (Barbara Trumpinski)
Subject: happy childhood?
Organization: University of Illinois at Urbana
Date: Fri, 17 Apr 1992 01:22:29 GMT

kitten sighs.  "i have been following the discussion about childhood,
and the idea that many of us were unhappy as children...in fact some
of us had truly tragic damaged childhood.

i just started reading gloria steinem's _revolution from within_...and
even though i haven't even read half yet...so i can't really review
it...i heartily recommend it...or at least chapter 2, which is titled
"it's never too late to have a happy childhood".  i don't know how
much any of you know about steinem...she is strong and beautiful...at
50+ she is more gorgeous than i will ever be.  she is talented and
successful...the founding mother of one of the premier women's
magazines of all time....ms.  and she is an adult child.  she grew up
in poverty in east toledo, ohio and from the age of 10 she was the
sole caregiver to her drugged out, metally ill mother.  

she starts out this chapter in her book with a quote "freedom is what
you do with what's been done to you." (sartre)  another quote, early
in the chapter, is from hemingway.  "the world breaks everyone, and
afterward, some are strong at the broken places...

i have listened to bear's story and sea wasp's story and jim's story
and tj's story....and all the other stories...and i have one too (flat
chested with glasses, too smart, gawky, with an attitude...too many
kids and not enough money in my family...and i am the oldest...NEVER
enough attention....) and it seems to me that all of us who have been
broken ARE stronger....

and callahans, the love and friendship and family that we have
here...are a part of reclaiming the child within...."

kitten drains her glass....<CRASH!!!!!!!!> "to the child in all of
us....and to repeat a toast that has been heard recently...to LOVE."


--
***************************************************************************
conan the librarian a.k.a. kitten           /\ /\  barbara ann 
"my life's a soap opera, isn't yours?"      {=.=}
                                              ~   trumpins@alexia.lis.uiuc.edu 

"kittens today are not properly trained--the way that they were when
victoria reigned." asparagus (gus: the theatre cat)
Newsgroups: alt.callahans
From: billw@regal.cisco.com (William )
Subject: Re: More Rhetoric [Interest on money]
Organization: cisco Systems, Inc.
	<YdrmN_G00Vpe4lFlYL@andrew.cmu.edu>
	<1992Apr6.052107.7256@waikato.ac.nz> <atterlep.702524824@vela>
Date: Sat, 11 Apr 1992 10:32:18 GMT


      "Harry Harrison had the best solution to the problem of
    money--eliminate interest.  Money is kept basically the same, but is
    used mainly in its original function as a barter-equivalent.  People
    buy and sell as before, but they must do _something_ that someone
    considers important in order to continue life at their standard of
    living.  They can no longer make money simply by having it, which
    would take care of many of the inheritance issues.

      "What do you think?"

A man of somewhat indeterminant age steps to the bar and buys everyone a
drink.  He is dressed in jeans and an obscure T-shirt, has curly dark blond
hair and glasses.  A couple people in the bar recall having seen him around
before, but he usually doesn't say much.  Nevertheless, he speaks....

Hi.  I'm Chops.  That is, I was Chops in high school and college, but mostly
I've just been BillW since then, having changed coasts and all.  Maybe some
day I'll explain the nickname.  But for now...

Recently I've had reason to philosophize on the subject of Money.  Money as
a thing unto itself, mind you, as opposed to just money as a means of
accquiring other things.  Questions like "Why would anyone want to have
more money than that amount whose interest allows them to live as well as
they want, forever?"  "If they don't want any more, what do they do instead
of trying to make more?"  My old boss is worth about $50M now.  That's
$2M/year incoming without trying....  Or, "Is it really as fundamentally
different to be poor now, compared to 50 years ago or so?"

But back to the question that started this off.

I think that as soon as you admit that one "important" thing that someone
can do with money is loan it to someone else to do something "important"
with, the concept of interest comes right back.  

Interest isn't what you get for doing nothing with your money, it's what
you get for allowing someone else to use your money.

Chops buys another round of drinks, having forgotten that he just did that
a few seconds ago, drains his own glass and throws it at the fireplace.
(waste of good glassware, that - I hope the shards get recycled...)

"To Philosophy, and the luxury of being able to indulge in it"

Newsgroups: alt.callahans
From: trumpins@alexia.lis.uiuc.edu (Barbara Trumpinski)
Subject: Re: abortion
Organization: University of Illinois at Urbana
Date: Sun, 12 Apr 1992 13:49:31 GMT

In <1992Apr12.122338.24602@muddcs.claremont.edu> dgreen@jarthur.claremont.edu (David 'Mishael' Green) writes:

nickd. quotes heinlein and amplifies...

>->   I agree. Its a choice between the woman and her doctor, not some
>-> group of busybodies... Groups that want the ruling party to implement
>-> their way as the only possible way have existed throughout history
>-> in all places and times. "Never underestimate the power of human
>-> stupidity." RAH or Lazerus Long, if you prefer.
>->
>->  Hawkeye's Corollary:
>->
>->  "Never underestimate the power of human stupidity, it can kill you."

>Mishael shakes his head a little.  "It's not that people are trying to be
>busybodies and poke their say into everyone's life when they oppose abortion--
>or at least, that's not my goal in believing that abortion's not right...
>It's that we (or at least I) believe that abortion is the taking of a life,
>an innocent life undeserving of being taken.  You don't call people
>busybodies who believe that it is wrong to kill another person in cold blood,
>do you?

"some of these people are busybodies and some aren't.  i can respect
the people who are so opposed to death that they will do anything to
stop it...but if you picket outside a clinic where women are getting
abortions do you also work to end the death penalty?

and, are you registered for the draft? have you refused or are you
listed as a concientious objector? do you work to get cigarettes and
alcohol off the market? how do you feel about the 'right to die' issue?

it is all tied together...."  kitten starts kicking soap boxes out of
the way. "damn, i knew i should have kept my mouth shut....can we take
some of these out to the meadow for the bonfire?
--
***************************************************************************
conan the librarian a.k.a. kitten           /\ /\  barbara ann 
"my life's a soap opera, isn't yours?"      {=.=}
                                              ~   trumpins@alexia.lis.uiuc.edu 

"kittens today are not properly trained--the way that they were when
victoria reigned." asparagus (gus: the theatre cat)
Newsgroups: alt.callahans
From: braley@binkley.cs.mcgill.ca  (The Didi-Sprite)
Subject: Re: credit
Originator: braley@binkley.cs.mcgill.ca
Organization: SOCS, McGill University, Montreal, Canada
Date: Tue, 14 Apr 1992 00:51:25 GMT

In article <1992Apr13.193928.26000@ux1.cso.uiuc.edu> trumpins@alexia.lis.uiuc.edu (Barbara Trumpinski) writes:
>kitten calls for attention among the folx who are at the party...
>
>"i have an announcement to make," she says, blushing.  "i am getting
>all of didi's compliments and it is not fair....NOT that i don't love
>our danger mouse, too...and i helped a little with the party....but,
>didi did all the work....except for the post by shonias, didi did all
>the organizing, cutting and pasting and everything...worked her little
>fingers to the bone, she did... and then she sent me thousands of
>lines of stuff so _I_ could post it...just in case she had problems
>with her news feed again...so it was my name on her work....
>
>let's get her up here and give her a hand."  [MAJOR APPLAUSE]
>
>
The Didi-Sprite looks around ... blushes ... looks down at the ground:

"Oh, gosh ... golly gee ... "

Then looking up with a great big grin on her face:

"Well, here is the thing ... I have loved this rodent for six years!
So, in fact, it was something that just had to get done!  ...

"But you know what else?  The outpouring of love and imaginative con-
tributions by so many ... was absolutely wonderful!  Everyone out there
who sent stuff ... you are all to be congratulated and thanked.  You 
are one amazingly loving group of people ... and guess what?  I love you
all!  Thank you.

"And, the party isn't over yet, you know!  That meadow can take a whole
lot more fun and merriment ... and those picnic hampers just never run
out of good stuff ... so!  Come on ... let's party!"


----<--<@

The Didi-Sprite
Montreal * Canada

braley@binkley.cs.mcgill.ca

Newsgroups: alt.callahans
From: lydick@SOL1.GPS.CALTECH.EDU (Speaker-to-Minerals)
Subject: Re: the best books to rebuild modern technology
Reply-To: lydick@SOL1.GPS.CALTECH.EDU
Organization: HST Wide Field/Planetary Camera
Date: Sun, 12 Apr 1992 12:00:30 GMT

In article <1992Apr12.052509.22903@cs.tulane.edu>, pierce@navo.navy.mil (Jim M. Pierce) writes:
>    "Also a book on masonry. Many of the early cathedrals collapsed
>  because those stone masons didn't understand all of the forces
>  they were dealing with." NickD. 

I'd recommend, instead, a good first-year calculus textbook (assuming we
couldn't have both, and that we want to teach our children rather than letting
our knowledge die with us).  You can figure out masonry with the calculus and
(admittedly a LOT) of experimentation with minerals.  Calculus is also more
generally applicable.
From: JMPIERCE@USMCP6.BITNET (JIM PIERCE)
Newsgroups: alt.callahans
Subject: most passionate of the Signs ???
Date: 7 Apr 92 23:23:58 GMT
Article-I.D.: USM.920407.17235788.070625


   "gee kitten, I thought it was the Cancer types that were the most
passionate. After all, I read an article in a magazine that stated
that women should pay more attention to Cancerian males. Most of them
look rather plain, but if there was a video screen on a Cancerian
male's forehead, more women would be interested in them. No joking
actually. I did read the article, it was by 'Martine.' It appeared
for one year and was called 'The Sensual Astrologer.' Ah yes, I
like it. { Cancerian males don't stand up when introduced to a
woman, because they already are. } My birthday is June 27."
  NickD. { yes, I have a video... }

* <JMPIERCE@USMCP6.BITNET> Jim Pierce; Bach. Sci. in Applied Computer Science
* USM Academic Computing on the Gulf Park Campus. Disclaimer: Standard.
* "Women are People, *not* property." me
From: aaron@space.ualberta.ca (Alfvaen)
Subject: The Sentence From Nowhere
Organization: University Of Alberta, Edmonton Canada
Date: Tue, 7 Apr 1992 17:39:22 GMT


"Wilma, you're a geek and a loser, and I don't want you on my softball  
team."

--

---Alfvaen(and no, this isn't my real name!)
Canadian Network For Space Research, Edmonton, Alberta, Canada
If you stand on your head, you will get footprints in your hair.
Current Album--X:Ain't Love Grand
 "There's a big, ugly city out there."
From: pierce@navo.navy.mil (Jim M. Pierce)
Newsgroups: alt.callahans
Subject: some info ,but no allabout Re: ??????
Date: 13 Apr 92 01:13:07 GMT
Article-I.D.: cs.1992Apr13.011307.11447
Reply-To: pierce@navo.navy.mil (Jim M. Pierce)
Organization: POPS Operations
Nntp-Posting-Host-[nntpd-27973]: spop.navo.navy.mil

In article <1992Apr12.022653.14745@polari.com>, pacific@polari.com writes:
|>      Pardon my lack of understanding, but I don't quite get what this
|> newsgroup is all about.  Can someone explain this to me?
|>      PLEASE no flames.....
   
    "Don't worry. We don't flame..."

|> 
|> John cohen
|> Surprise Lake Middle School

   "I like the name of the school. 'Surprise lake' interesting..."

|> Milton, Washington
|> a
|> 

   "This is Callahan's Cross Time Saloon. Its a Virtual Reality bar based
 on a story by Spider Robinson. Mostly we talk about various topics,
 { note, I said we talk or discuss, not shout. }, we help each other with
 problems, 'shared pain is lessened, shared happines is increased', we
 have VR birthday { and other types } of parties, we have fun. There is
 and allabout file, but I don't have a copy. Some of use have personaes
 and some of us have personalities. :-) Stick around and read for awhile.
 We wont flame you for your questions. In that, we are quite unlike
 all other Newsgroups I have ever read." NickD. Third-Eye Detective Agency

-- 
     pierce@navo.navy.mil  Jim Pierce aka Nick D.

    "I want a new duck...." Weird Al Yankovic
Newsgroups: alt.callahans
From: trumpins@alexia.lis.uiuc.edu (Barbara Trumpinski)
Subject: Re: Dr. Asimov
Keywords: Death, Renescance Men, etc.
Organization: University of Illinois at Urbana
Distribution: world,local
Date: Tue, 7 Apr 1992 03:07:48 GMT

In <6APR199209044074@violet.ccit.arizona.edu> p65331727@violet.ccit.arizona.edu (The Artful Dodger) writes:

>he prefers Mike, then stops.  "You look like someone died, Art."
>	"Someone did.  Dr. Asimov, one of the last Renasance men,
>died last night.  When I was a kid, Dr. Asimov was one of my favorite 
>science fiction writers.  Later, I read his factual works, and
>was enlightened.
>	"I understand he was rather annoying to know personally,
>but his works are wonderful."
>	Arty crosses to the line.  "To the Big 3 - Heinlein, Asimov,
>and Clarke - and all the wonderful things they gave us."
>	he chugs his sprite, and throws the glass in the fire.

kitten flings her glass into the fire after arty's...a tear sliding
down one cheek....

--
***************************************************************************
conan the librarian a.k.a. kitten           /\ /\  barbara ann 
"my life's a soap opera, isn't yours?"      {=.=}
                                              ~   trumpins@alexia.lis.uiuc.edu 

"kittens today are not properly trained--the way that they were when
victoria reigned." asparagus (gus: the theatre cat)
Newsgroups: alt.callahans
From: lydick@SOL1.GPS.CALTECH.EDU (Speaker-to-Minerals)
Subject: Re: More Rhetoric
Reply-To: lydick@SOL1.GPS.CALTECH.EDU
Organization: HST Wide Field/Planetary Camera
Date: Fri, 10 Apr 1992 22:16:31 GMT

In article <1992Apr10.213315.29322@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu>, jpalmer@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (John D Palmer) writes:
>    Hmmm.  I don't think interest is the problem. . . I think one of the 
>problems is the horse race, er, I mean the crap shoot. . . Damn!  I mean the
>STOCK MARKET.

I tend to agree with you.

>      You know, where people make money, not by producing, not by 
>investing, but by 'playing the market'.

>     Investing in a company is a service.  Buying it's stock in the hopes
>that it will go up eventually is a service.  Buying it at 2:00 and
>selling it at 2:27 is doing it a DISSERVICE.  You are making the market
>a less stable indicator of what the REAL value really is.

Probably, but not necessarily.  If you see a stock that's undervalued, buy the
stock, then find someone who's willing to pay what it's really worth and sell
it to him, it's called arbitrage, and can actually be a service.  The question
is:  Was the stock REALLY undervalued, or did your purchase of it actually
represent market manipulation, triggering an irrational price rise (bubble)?
If it really was undervalued, then you've performed a service.  If the price
rose only because of your stock purchase, you've started a financial bubble,
which is NOT a good thing.

>      There is only one thing that I keep in mind, however, and that is
>that I NEVER feel sorry for a person who goes broke in a stock market 
>crash when they were palying the market. . . any more than I feel 
>sorry for someone who goes broke at a horse track or in a casino.

If, by "playing the market," you mean stock speculation, I agree with you. 
However, when someone has made a careful analysis of a stock, invested in it
intending to collect dividends over a long period of time, and then had the
stock lose its value because of speculation-caused bubbles, then I DO feel
sorry for him.  He was doing his best to make the system work, and his efforts
were defeated by a bunch of idiots (far too many of them working for such
organizations as the SEC) who think you can produe wealth by shuffling paper.
Such a situation is truly tragic.
Newsgroups: alt.callahans
From: HF.TXG@forsythe.stanford.edu (Tonya Gonzales)
Subject: Re: Dr. Asimov
Organization: Stanford University, California, USA
Distribution: usa
Date: Wed, 8 Apr 1992 19:34:39 GMT

In article <6APR199209044074@violet.ccit.arizona.edu>,
p65331727@violet.ccit.arizona.edu (The Artful Dodger) writes:
>
>        Arty stands up from behind his table of homework and
>crosses to the bar.  "Mick, I'd like a sprite, no ice."
>        Mike sets it in front of him, starts to mention that
>he prefers Mike, then stops.  "You look like someone died, Art."
>        "Someone did.  Dr. Asimov, one of the last Renasance men,
>died last night.  When I was a kid, Dr. Asimov was one of my favorite
>science fiction writers.  Later, I read his factual works, and
>was enlightened.
>        "I understand he was rather annoying to know personally,
>but his works are wonderful."
>        Arty crosses to the line.  "To the Big 3 - Heinlein, Asimov,
>and Clarke - and all the wonderful things they gave us."
>        he chugs his sprite, and throws the glass in the fire.
>
>
 TJ runs out of a corner and to the bar. "Mike, a Gin & Tonic
please."
 Taking the drink she steps in front of the line and says            advice.
" To the big three, without whom I probably wouldn't have started
reading."
 She drinks it down and throws the glass into the fire.

"Ayuh, I have got to stop downing alcohol like that!"

TJ weaves her way back to the <wonderfully> dark corner in whick to
lie her head.
Newsgroups: alt.callahans
From: aahz@netcom.com (Aahzmandius)
Subject: Re: Calling Ariel and Mathex!!!
Date: Sat, 11 Apr 92 13:21:51 GMT
Organization: Bill 'n' Opus for Prez

In article <12125@tamsun.tamu.edu> lynne@statler.tamu.edu (Meredith Lynne) writes:
>
>"I used to converse pretty regularly with Ariel and
>Mathex...Remember Cyberia?  Has anybody freed it yet?...
>Anyway, somewhere along the line he had difficulty with
>his access and I lost touch with him.  Is anybody here
>still in contact, and if so, could you get me a SnailMail
>address or a phone number?  I miss the silly CyberConsul...

Uh, the MandelBear was the one who originally came up with the Cyberian
Manifesto.  Other people extended it, but he should get the credit.
-- 
                         --- Aahz (the *other* Dan Bernstein)
                             @netcom.com 

Hugs and backrubs -- I break Rule 6

Mothers are inventors by necessity
From: daq@hpfcso.FC.HP.COM (Doug Quarnstrom)
Date: Thu, 9 Apr 1992 03:07:56 GMT
Subject: Re: most passionate of the Signs ???
Organization: Hewlett-Packard, Fort Collins, CO, USA
Newsgroups: alt.callahans

In alt.callahans, JMPIERCE@USMCP6.BITNET (JIM PIERCE) writes:

> 
>    "gee kitten, I thought it was the Cancer types that were the most
> passionate. After all, I read an article in a magazine that stated
> that women should pay more attention to Cancerian males. Most of them
> look rather plain, but if there was a video screen on a Cancerian
> male's forehead, more women would be interested in them. No joking
> actually. I did read the article, it was by 'Martine.' It appeared
> for one year and was called 'The Sensual Astrologer.' Ah yes, I
> like it. { Cancerian males don't stand up when introduced to a
> woman, because they already are. } My birthday is June 27."
>   NickD. { yes, I have a video... }
> 

I am a cancer, and I am NOT fucking passionate.  OK!?

And if anyone could see a video on MY forehead, they would
run screaming.

doug
Newsgroups: alt.callahans
From: jhitch@crash.cts.com (Jeffrey Hitchin)
Subject: Ghosts at the Table (was Re: Dr. Asimov)
Reply-To: jhitch@crash.cts.com (Jeffrey Hitchin)
Organization: Crash TimeSharing, El Cajon, CA
Date: Tue, 07 Apr 1992 17:08:05 GMT

	A group of men are sitting at Grant's table.  Grant gets up,
the other men stand.  A waiter comes up to the table as Grant starts
shaking hands.

	"Thomas Trumbull, you were annoying, but you always had something
interesting to say.  Emmanuel Rubin, your Asimov jokes were really
funny.  Geoffrey Avalon, thanks for all the stimulating conversation.
Roger Halsted, thanks for the invitation. Mario Gonzalo, thanks for
making Trumbull angry, he's a lot of fun when he's angry. And James
Drake, I didn't know you very well, you weren't that developed, but
thanks for being a part of all this.

	"Henry," Grant says turning to the waiter, "you were the best.
The greatest waiter a group of men could ever have.  I'm going to
miss your sharp mind." 

	Grant steps back as the Black Widowers fade out of existence.

RIP Isaac Asimov
From: mdm@sparc2.Prime.COM (Michael D. McAfee)
Subject: a test...oh, yeah, and a pun
Organization: Yale CS Mail/News Gateway
Date: Fri, 17 Apr 1992 05:33:37 GMT


	Hi, just testing a new mail address for this group.

	Oh, and in re: Martyr's Little Problem...

	Geez, Tizrak, and I thought _I_ was having mail problems...

	Michael, the Chaotic
	(who plans on coming here regularly again, really, honest...)
From: daq@hpfcso.FC.HP.COM (Doug Quarnstrom)
Date: Fri, 10 Apr 1992 15:00:17 GMT
Subject: Re: Epistemological Question
Organization: Hewlett-Packard, Fort Collins, CO, USA
Newsgroups: alt.callahans

In alt.callahans, dgil@ipsaint.ipsa.reuter.com (Gillett, David) writes:

> 
> -----------Message forwarded from IPSA Mailbox-------------
> no. 6134868 filed 19.59.32  wed  8 apr 1992
> from dgil
> to   locun
> subj Epistemological Question
> ref  6133621
> 
>      I'm trying to put a few thoughts in order, and encountering a difficulty
> where concepts that seem obvious and intuitive are resisting formulation as
> clear epistemological distinctions.  I'm hoping that Ray can suggest a way
> around the difficulty, but copying the group since some of you others may have
> valuable insights as well.
> 
>      My question is this:  I am given a piece of hearsay evidence about an
> event.  How do I distinguish between History (a record, of indeterminate
> accuracy, of a 'real' (we're talking epistemology, so those quotes stay for
> now!) event), and Fiction (an account, of indeterminate accuracy, of an event
> which was conceived but never enacted)?
> 
>      I'm pretty certain that I/we *do* distinguish between these.  I'm looking
> for some epistemological *basis* for that distinction.

I am not sure that I understand the question.  You are looking for reasons
to JUSTIFY using history over hearsay?

It can be axiomatically accepted, I think, that all history is hearsay, but
some of it is more credible because of the source.  It seems that if you
are trying to develop an internally consistent epistemology, you would
have no choice but to find the most accurate hearsay on the subjects that
impact your epistemology that you can.

doug