HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.slart-l
Date:         Sun, 12 Apr 1992 10:56:15 -0700
From:         mclaugh@CATS.UCSC.EDU
Subject:      getting on mailing list
X-To:         slart-l%psuvm.bitnet@ksuvm.ksu.edu

I would appreciate information about how to get on slart
mailing list.
Thanks,
Barry McLaughlin
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Date:         Wed, 8 Apr 1992 16:23:48 EST
From:         INJ3000 <INJ3@MUSICB.MCGILL.CA>
Subject:      sgoldman

for susan goldman try: goldman@vuctrvax
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Date:         Mon, 6 Apr 1992 10:49:12 -0500
From:         jbjg7967@UXA.CSO.UIUC.EDU
Subject:      Re: PDP & SLA

SLART subscribers

Well I just performed the classic e-mail goof of replying to a post without
paying attention to the address--so the private note below was sent to the
net. Thirty lashes.
***
>Joel: are you on SLART-L?  There has been some discussion of Parallel
>Distributed Processing.  I note, in particular, Maggi Sokolik's
>post below which refers to perception.  Want to join in?

Well, I was until the semester break, then someone (or something)
unsubscribed me, and I never got back on.  Anyway, I'm controlling for
'getting a job', so I think I'll beg off this one.  She doesn't really say
anything specific in this post--there's more to talk about in the articles
she cites, but I looked at them several months ago and don't remember
details. The main problem (an epistemological one) with the computer models
of PDP is that they don't actually "create" connections, or knowledge--a
programmer sets up an initial state and the model works from there. You'll
also note the preoccupation with output, although in this post she seems to
recognize the need for comparing the perception of output with some
reference signal. Anyway, if they get more nitty-gritty I might bite, or if
you decide to say something PCT-wise, I'll back you up, so forward anything
you think interesting.  There's also an excellent criticism of PDP in a
book called _The Invention of Memory_, but I don't have the author's name
with me. You might see if Sokolik or anyone else knows about it.
***
Joel Judd
University of Illinois at Urbana-Champaign
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Original_cc:  LHAMPLYONS
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Date:         Mon, 6 Apr 1992 21:37:00 MDT
From:         LHAMPLYONS@CUDENVER.BITNET
Subject:      RE: trilingual language learners

Please note correction: Mark Clarke's e-address is not as previously listed,
but: MCLARKE@CUDNVR.DENVER.COLORADO.EDU  or on bitnet: MCLARKE@CUDENVER.BITNET
Liz H-L
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Date:         Thu, 9 Apr 1992 15:44:00 MDT
From:         B1ROSS@CUDENVER.BITNET
Subject:      RE: More on ESL and Critical Thinking

Thank you.  A colleague of mine knows the sch.  I appreciate the info.
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Date:         Wed, 15 Apr 1992 10:50:00 MST
From:         MACEYTAY@ARIZVMS.BITNET
Subject:      Re: Language Houses

from Macey Taylor maceytay@ccit.arizona.edu

I lived in a language house during the Summer Linguistics Institute
at the U of Michigan MANY years ago.  As a language house, all it
amounted to under those circumstances was having a french group and
a Spanish group for dinner and associated activities, with a resident
native speaker in charge of each table.  Since it was summer and most
of us were involved in heavy-duty school (reading), there were few
(if any) activities in the languages.  Since there were enough rooms
to go around, each had a private room (which was certainly good for
getting the work done) and thus no roommate to practice with.  The
impression I got was that it probably worked very well during the
school year, with roommates, activities, etc., but it was pretty much
a waste for me then.

U Mich ought to be a good place to inquire, though.
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Date:         Thu, 9 Apr 1992 14:56:00 +8
From:         LIMLEUNG@CPHKVX.BITNET
Subject:      self access language learning

I am new to SLART and this is my first submission. Several tertiary
institutions in Hong Kong are trying to set up self access/independent
language learning centres, to teach English primarily, but also other
languages like Chinese, Putonghua/Mandarin and Japanese. However, there
does not seem to be a lot of reference materials on the subject. Leslie
Dickinson's Self-Instruction in Language Learning (Cambridge UP) is a book
which many of us refer to. There is also an article in the ELT Journal
(Oct 91) by Lew Barnett and Geoff Jordon. But is there any more up to date
or comprehensive work on this subject. I will be most grateful to hear
about them.

Matthew Leung
Language Institute
City Polytechnic of Hong Kong
fax: (852) 7888234  e-mail: LIMLEUNG@CPHKVX.BITNET
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Date:         Tue, 7 Apr 1992 15:42:00 MDT
From:         CMCDANIEL@CUDENVER.BITNET
Subject:      RE: authentic materials in foreign language teaching

There is an interesting article entitled
"Language With a Purpose: Using Authentic Materials
in the Foreign Language Classroom," in Foreign
Language Annals, 21, No. 5, l988, by Carmen
Villegas Rogers, University of Tennessee and
Frank Medley, Jr., University of South Carolina.
Carolyn McDaniel, Univ of Colo at Denver
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Date:         Mon, 13 Apr 1992 08:54:33 EST
From:         bert peeters <peeters@TASMAN.CC.UTAS.EDU.AU>
Subject:      Re: FUNCTIONAL GRAMMAR
              Apr 12, 92 3:39 pm

> Could you help me locate practical materials on functional
> grammar for students with little background in linguistics?  You
> can send your message directly to me or to the list.  In any
> case, I will summarize my results for list members.

> Is there a one-volume text that deals with several such issues?
> I am thinking of something one might use as part of a course on
> English structure at graduate and undergraduate levels.  Also, if
> you have a reading list or a sample course syllabus that you
> could share with me, I would be most grateful.

I'm almost sure Rodney Huddleston's work in English grammar (not his
1984 book which is too technical for your audience, but a later much
thinner one the title of which escapes me now) could be something to
look at. I remember Tim Shopen used it as a tutorial text in a course
on "The structure of English" in 1989 or 1990 when it was not yet
available in print. He used the prepublication draft.
---------------------------------------------------------------------
Dr Bert Peeters                         Tel: +61 02 202344
Department of Modern Languages               002 202344
University of Tasmania at Hobart        Fax: 002 207813
GPO Box 252C                            Bert.Peeters@modlang.utas.edu.au
Hobart TAS 7001
Australia
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Date:         Thu, 9 Apr 1992 09:09:59 CDT
From:         Andrew Cohen <adcohen@UX.ACS.UMN.EDU>
Subject:      Re: self access language learning
X-To:         SLART-L%PSUVM.bitnet@KSUVM.KSU.EDU
              "LIMLEUNG%CPHKVX.bitnet@KSUVM.KSU.EDU" at Apr 9, 92 2:01 am

For Mattheuw Long--
With respect to autonomous learning, take a look at Anita Wenden's
new book with Prentice Hall: Learner strategies for learner autonomy, 1991.
Chapter 9 is entitled Settings for Promoting Learner Autonomy and
describes programs in various parts of the world.  Also look at
Rebecca Oxford's book with Newbury House (now Heinle & Heinle), Language
Learning Strategies, 1990.  Her chapter 7, Networking at Home and
Abroad has descriptions of a number of programs around the world as well--
granted, her focus is on learner training and not necessarily on
learner autonomy.
--
DR. ANDREW D. COHEN
Program in ESL, 126 Klaeber Court, University of Minnesota,
320 16th Avenue S.E., Minneapolis, MN 55455
Tel: 612-624-3806/FAX: 612-625-2312/e-mail: adcohen@ux.acs.umn.edu
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Date:         Mon, 6 Apr 1992 10:39:59 -0500
From:         jbjg7967@UXA.CSO.UIUC.EDU
Subject:      Re: PDP & SLA

Fred,

(Should've done this and the other together).  You ask:

>Joel: are you on SLART-L?  There has been some discussion of Parallel
>Distributed Processing.  I note, in particular, Maggi Sokolik's
>post below which refers to perception.  Want to join in?

Well, I was until the semester break, then someone (or something)
unsubscribed me, and I never got back on.  Anyway, I'm controlling for
'getting a job', so I think I'll beg off this one.  She doesn't really say
anything specific in this post--there's more to talk about in the articles
she cites, but I looked at them several months ago and don't remember
details. The main problem (an epistemological one) with the computer models
of PDP is that they don't actually "create" connections, or knowledge--a
programmer sets up an initial state and the model works from there. You'll
also note the preoccupation with output, although in this post she seems to
recognize the need for comparing the perception of output with some
reference signal. Anyway, if they get more nitty-gritty I might bite, or if
you decide to say something PCT-wise, I'll back you up, so forward anything
you think interesting.  There's also an excellent criticism of PDP in a
book called _The Invention of Memory_, but I don't have the author's name
with me. You might see if Sokolik or anyone else knows about it.

-Joel
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Date:         Wed, 8 Apr 1992 14:12:00 MDT
From:         MLANE@CUDENVER.BITNET
Subject:      RE: PDP, rules and Natural Approach

I believe I am the teacher to whom Marisa Allen referred in her reply.
Last week when teaching modals I used the newspaper article about
Baby Theresa--the child born with only a brain stem.  The students
integrated the modals we had been studying in our discussion about
the problem of the baby.  As:  What could the parents do?  What
might the parents do?  etc.  The next day, when the child died, we
were able to use another article and practice the past tense.
This was putting to use a combination of skills, all connected
and very authentic.  This is exactly the kind of thing I try
to accomplish in my class.  Another plus is that it proves to
the students that they can read the newspapers and news magazines.  It
is also a terrific way to get debates and discussions going.
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Date:         Mon, 6 Apr 1992 09:01:12 -0500
From:         mmg1083@UXA.CSO.UIUC.EDU
Subject:      Cross-linguistic complexity of narratives
X-To:         Multiple recipients of list SLART-L <SLART-L%PSUVM@psuvm.psu.edu>

We are working with a set of narratives produced by native Spanish and
English children and we want to compare these narrative with other set
produced by bilingual children.  We are looking for references/research
about the complexity (i.e. length of narration, subordination and
coordination, etc..) of narratives in English and in Spanish.  Does anyone
know of any research on the comparison of English and Spanish narratives on
this matter?  Thanks in advance!

Montserrat Mir
Educational Psychology
University of Illinois, Urbana-Champaign
mmg1083@uxa.cso.edu
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Date:         Sun, 5 Apr 1992 22:01:37 CDT
From:         Maggi Sokolik <SOKOLIK@TAMVM1.BITNET>
Subject:      PDP & SLA

I would like to address the question regarding SLA and PDP, and
whether the implication is that teachers should not be teaching
"rules" in the classroom.

I don't think this is a conclusion that should be drawn from the
studies so far. An important component of PDP learning theory, and
a component that is often overlooked in the criticism of the model
as "behaviorist", is that learning in the system, that is, a readjustment
of weights, does not take place unless there is a PERCEIVED difference
between the output and the target forms.  That is, in humans,
they must notice the difference between what they do and what they
"should" do in order to produce the desired output.  Certainly
one way of "noticing" is to be shown regularities. However, I think
we are doing our students a disservice to some extent, and I am sure
that most out there would agree, when we present the rules in a way
that gives them primacy.
    In addition to the references given earlier, I will add to that
list another Gasser article, which appeared in SSLA in June 1990,
my TESOL Quarterly article which appeared last year (I think, sorry
I don't recall), and the article by me & Smith, which is just out
in SLR. These all address PDP with specific reference to SLA.
There is also an article in U. of Hawaii Working Papers in ESL
by R. Schmidt which explores the utility of PDP and SLA.  A recent
article by D. Larsen-Freeman in TESOL-Q reviews briefly the state
of the field with respect to PDP/SLA (as well as the state of the field
in all sorts of other areas in SLA).
      Anyway, I see no reason for teachers to despair because of the
interest in PDP. It will be interesting and important to see the
implications for teaching from PDP research (if any), but I don't
see any need to take any direct action based on the state of the
art. We've a long way to go.

Maggi Sokolik
Texas A&M
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Date:         Tue, 7 Apr 1992 21:06:08 EDT
From:         "Joyce Neu,
              The Carter Center of Emory Univ." <CCJN@EMUVM1.BITNET>
Subject:      Re: theory and practice

Karen Johnson (Ph.D. Syracuse) is teaching in the Center for
ESL at Penn State Univ. Her ID is KEJ1@PSUVM.

Joyce Neu
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Date:         Mon, 6 Apr 1992 09:30:24 -0500
From:         vanpatte@UX1.CSO.UIUC.EDU
Subject:      Re: PDP & SLA

On the issue of PDP and the teaching of rules in the classroom, Maggi
Sokolik stated that "a readjustment of weights, does not take place unless
there is a PERCEIVED difference between the output and the target forms.
That is, in humans, they must notice the difference between what they do
and what they "should" do in order to produce the desired output.
Certainly one way of "noticing" is to be shown regularities."

Implicit in Maggi's statement and something worth making explicit is that
learning, even in a PDP framework, is a result of processing input. The
relative weights and strengths of connections is due to (in)consistent
mappings of input strings. My guess is that the question of whether or not
to teach rules stems from a confusion between teaching rules and making
learners practice rules via output. Making learners aware of regularities
and irregularities of syntax, morphology, etc. is not the same thing as
output based practice with forms that involve repetition, substitution,
fill ins, and so on.   Teaching rules so that learners might better
PERCEIVE and PROCESS the input data is consistent with most SLA theories.
______________________________________________
Bill VanPatten
Department of Spanish, Italian & Portuguese
4080 Foreign Languages Building
707 S. Mathews
The University of Illinois
Urbana, IL 61801
(217) 333-3391
vanpatte@ux1.cso.uiuc.edu
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Date:         Tue, 7 Apr 1992 09:43:00 EDT
From:         SELIGER@QCVAX.BITNET
Subject:      Re: PDP & SLA

I have found the recent discussion on PDP and the Competition model
very interesting.  It's as good as having a coffee-klatch at a
conference.  This is what the network is all about. Keep it
up.   Is Barry McLaughlin on this network?   Herb Seliger
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Date:         Wed, 8 Apr 1992 22:57:24 EDT
From:         "H. TOMITA" <tomita@VAX001.KENYON.EDU>
Subject:      Req. for Info:R.K. Johnson
X-To:         slart-l@psuvm.psu.edu

SLART-L subscribers:

	In Chudron (1988), the following title appears but I cannot find it
	at any on-line catalogues, including Melvyl, and Mcat of U Mich. I will
	appreciate it if anyone could provide any infromation about the book,
	(or Beretta's article itself).

	Beretta, Alan. In press. Language teaching program
	evaluation:retrospect and prospect. In R.K. Johnson, ed.  Program
	design and evaluation in language teaching.  Cambridge: Cambridge
	University Pres.


	Thank you in advance.

	Hideo Tomita
	Kenyon College
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Date:         Mon, 6 Apr 1992 23:31:00 CDT
From:         JOHN HEDGCOCK <ENGLJW@JETSON.BITNET>
Subject:      Re: PDP & SLA

To the networkers engaged in this lively PDP discourse ...

My recent (and unfortunately, rather superficial) reading of work by and about
PDP modelists continues to evoke the Competition Model (MacWhinney, Bates &
MacWhinney 1987), with its claims regarding strength of association and sta-
tistical occurrence of linguistic forms and their connection to meaning. To
what extent can the PDP framework be said to be compatible (or incompatible)
with the Competition Model?

--John Hedgcock
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Date:         Tue, 7 Apr 1992 08:24:51 PLT
From:         Roy Major <SCHG0036@WSUVM1.BITNET>
Subject:      RE: Cross-linguistic complexity of narratives
              6 Apr 1992 21:46:00 MDT from <LHAMPLYONS@CUDENVER>

I know Robt Carlisle is not on e-mail.  His address is Dept English &
Communication, CSU Bakersfield, 9001 Stockdale Highway, Bakersfield,
CA 93311-1099

Roy Major
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Date:         Tue, 7 Apr 1992 00:07:55 EST
From:         YB60000 <YB60@FERRIS.BITNET>
Subject:      Jobs in New Jersey

Gee, Liz, I thought that New Jersey information was for all
of us.  I found it useful enough to copy.

Ron Corio
Intensive English Program
Ferris State University
Big Rapids, MI 49307, USA
(616) 592-3921  Bitnet: yb60@ferris
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Date:         Sun, 12 Apr 1992 15:39:00 EDT
From:         ALI_AGHBAR <AAGHBAR@IUP.BITNET>
Subject:      FUNCTIONAL GRAMMAR

Could you help me locate practical materials on functional
grammar for students with little background in linguistics?  You
can send your message directly to me or to the list.  In any
case, I will summarize my results for list members.

I am interested in the kind of functional grammar discussed in
CLEAR AND COHERENT PROSE: A FUNCTIONAL APPROACH by William Vande
Kopple (Scott, Foresman and Co., 1989).  Let us take the passive
voice structure, for example.  Vande Kopple discusses it in
relation to the function it can play in topicalization and
provides lots of examples and exercises that show how writers may
make use of it to make their writing effective or achieve certain
purposes.

Is there a one-volume text that deals with several such issues?
I am thinking of something one might use as part of a course on
English structure at graduate and undergraduate levels.  Also, if
you have a reading list or a sample course syllabus that you
could share with me, I would be most grateful.

Thanks.

Ali Aghbar
AAGHBAR@IUP.BITNET  or:  AAGHBAR@GROVE.IUP.EDU
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Date:         Thu, 9 Apr 1992 08:57:15 CDT
From:         Andrew Cohen <adcohen@UX.ACS.UMN.EDU>
Subject:      Re: Eritrean/Ethiopian English Learners
X-To:         SLART-L%PSUVM.bitnet@KSUVM.KSU.EDU
              "KGOODSPEED%CUDENVER.bitnet@KSUVM.KSU.EDU" at Apr 8, 92 9:43 pm

I suggest you write to Charles Ferguson and ask him to send you a copy
of his paper.  He is Prof. Emeritus from Stanford.  His address
is 680 Loma Verde, Palo Alto, CA.  I think the zip is 94304 but I am not
sure about that.
--
DR. ANDREW D. COHEN
Program in ESL, 126 Klaeber Court, University of Minnesota,
320 16th Avenue S.E., Minneapolis, MN 55455
Tel: 612-624-3806/FAX: 612-625-2312/e-mail: adcohen@ux.acs.umn.edu
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Date:         Tue, 14 Apr 1992 21:48:00 EDT
From:         ALI_AGHBAR <AAGHBAR@IUP.BITNET>
Subject:      For B. Ross & L. Hamp-Lyons

Sorry folks for cluttering your mail box, but I have been having a heck of a
time contacting Bonnie Ross and Liz Hamp-Lyons directly at their nodes.

Bonnie, thanks for your information.  I am going to look up the text you
recommended.

Liz, could you kindly send me the references on fuctional grammar you sent me
last year.  I am unable to locate them in my computer files.  Thaks a lot.
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Date:         Thu, 16 Apr 1992 10:27:34 EST
From:         SROSENBE@UCS.INDIANA.EDU
Subject:      RE: Research on Latin

I suggest you contact:
	Lorraine Strasheim
	Coordinator, School Foreign Languages
	School of Education
	Indiana University
	Bloomington, Indiana 47405

	(812) 855-6945

Sorry, no e-mail. Phone or write.  My guess is Ms. Strasheim can and will
be very helpful.
			Samuel N. Rosenberg
			French and Italian
			Indiana University
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Date:         Wed, 15 Apr 1992 15:41:00 MDT
From:         MLANE@CUDENVER.BITNET
Subject:      RE: Language Houses

Leonard, my daughter is asst director of admissions at The Colorado
College in Colo. Springs.  As a student, she helped to initiate a
Russian House at CC; in addition they have French, German, and
SPanish houses.  She might be of help but I suggest you mention her
mother's name or she might be totally confused.  Her home address is
Lisa Lane, 226 E. SAN RAFAEL #7, Colorado Springs, CO. 80903.  I
don't believe CC is on email; I have never been able to contact her.
Sorry, I don't have her professional address with me.
Marcia Lane.
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Date:         Wed, 8 Apr 1992 08:33:00 MDT
From:         LHAMPLYONS@CUDENVER.BITNET
Subject:      RE: Jobs in New Jersey

HI Ron!  I was glad to meet you in Vancouver.  I have probably offended half of
the
list by implying that there are those who might not be languishing miserably
in the sticks of Denver, Big Rapids, or Keokuk waiting longingly for the
chance of a job in NJ!  Will it make things worse or better if I tell you I'm
married to a native New Jerseyan?
Liz
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