From: vander@flab.fujitsu.co.jp (Mike van der Velden)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.hockey
Subject: Re: Comparison of injuries (was: Gil Stein)
Date: 23 Jul 92 01:25:02 GMT
	<1992Jul20.025620.15707@mnemosyne.cs.du.edu>
	<1992Jul20.113225.25811@ericsson.se>
	<1992Jul20.201414.13271@mnemosyne.cs.du.edu>
	<VANDER.92Jul22094209@tokyo.stars.flab.Fujitsu.co.jp>
	<allan.711828127@st-isidore>
Organization: Fujitsu Laboratories Ltd., Kawasaki, Japan

In article <allan.711828127@st-isidore> allan@cs.UAlberta.CA (Allan Sullivan) writes:
> vander@flab.fujitsu.co.jp writes:
> >> 	It is a stupid theory that there should be three "officials" on
> >> the ice but a penalty can only be called if a certain one sees it!
> >Couldn't agree with you more!  Look at basketball!
> 
> Maybe it is stupid, maybe it is not.
> 
> In basketball, contact is not really allowed. So, if something happens,
> its pretty obvious.

This is the most naive thing I have ever heard!

When is the last time you saw a basketball game?  When you put 10 fast
moving bodies in a confined space, there *will* be contact, and in a
typical basketball game played with any intensity, there is a *lot* of
contact.  Most of it just isn't called (gee, what a surprise) because
if it were, you'd never go more than 2 seconds before the next
whistle.  It is only called when one player is perceived to have
gained an advantage over another as a result of the contact (sound
familiar?).  In this respect, basketball officiating is not as
different from hockey officiating as you might like to think.

Whenever there is contact, there are usually 2 different opinions on
whether or not it should be called, just as in hockey.  More often
than not, it is not at all obvious whether or not contact is
incidental or whether it enabled one player to obtain an advantage,
again, just as in hockey.

Allan, if you really think that basketball is so cut and dried, why
don't you check out the next Golden Bears game?

> But what do you do in hockey if an incident occurs, and two officials
> have differing opinions about what happens?
> 
> --------------------------------------------
> Official 1: Well, I think he was tripped.
> 
> Official 2: Well, I think the person was just taking a dive? What do you
>             think Official #3?
> 
> Official 3: I didn't see it, I was watching that blonde in section 2b.
> --------------------------------------------
> 
> If you are going to have more than 1 official call things, then you
> will need some sort of dispute-settling mechanism.

Sigh. As I said in my earlier post, look at basketball.  Each referee
has a zone that they are responsible for, and only call infractions
that occur in that zone.  Sure, sometimes the zones overlap and a foul
occurs in the overlapping area.  More often than not, the officials
see it the same way, but sometimes they don't.  However, they do have
ways of dealing with the problem.  I'd suggest picking up some FIBA
rule and casebooks for examples. 

At least in basketball, an official doesn't need eyes in the back of
his head, and it is very very difficult for a player to pull a cheap
shot away from the play.

I think that 2 or 3 referees for hockey would be a positive step, but
unfortunately I have heard very little discussion on the matter.
However, I do realize that adopting this system won't make all the
problems disappear, but hopefully they can be significantly reduced.

-- 
Mike van der Velden             
s-mail: Distributed Systems Laboratory, Fujitsu Laboratories Ltd.
        1015, Kamikodanaka Nakahara-ku, Kawasaki 211, Japan
e-mail: vander@tokyo.hi.flab.fujitsu.co.jp
--

-- 
Mike van der Velden             
s-mail: Distributed Systems Laboratory, Fujitsu Laboratories Ltd.
        1015, Kamikodanaka Nakahara-ku, Kawasaki 211, Japan
e-mail: vander@tokyo.hi.flab.fujitsu.co.jp
Newsgroups: rec.sport.hockey