HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: hroth@ncratl.AtlantaGA.NCR.COM (Harris Roth)
Newsgroups: misc.consumers.house
Subject: Re: No Hot Water!
Date: 22 Jan 93 15:50:38 GMT
Distribution: na
Organization: NCR Engineering and Manufacturing Atlanta -- Atlanta, GA

In article <C17t0n.Hvn@panix.com> dannyb@panix.com (Daniel Burstein) writes:
>In <y1_s6dd@dixie.com> jgd@dixie.com (John De Armond) writes:
>
>btw, there is a (relatively) simple solution (no pun intended).  You can
>put a thermostatic mixing valve after the water heater to lower the temp
>from, say, 150 to 120.  Or, our friend who kept running out of hot water
>could even turn it up to 195 (you need some margin below boiling).  
>
>That way the regular hot water through the home would be <120, but you
>could still tap off the very hot water for things like the dishwasher. 

I do not like the idea of reducing the temperature to the entire house.  When
washing dishes/pots/etc at the kitchen sink, I perfer to wear rubber gloves
and use the hottest water from the tap.  You would also need to use the
water heating capability in the dishwasher.  Question (maybe an FAQ?): what
is the efficiency of heating the water in the dishwasher vs. keeping the
water at the tank at a higher temperature?

The best way to accomplish scald prevention is at the shower/tub/sink faucets.  
The regular plumbing contractor on This Old House is always extolling the virtueof these temperature regulating valves.  He has even mentioned that in some 
areas, installation is mandatory in new or remodled construction.

In my house, the bathroom most frequented by children has the hot water cut-off 
valve under the sink turned down.  Kids are usually loathe to use hot water but
turning down the flow accomplishes nearly the same as a scald prevention valve.
Less hot water flow means smaller/less burning.

The tub presents a different problem since there is no cut-off valve for it.
I am contemplating installing one of the new valves but the old maxim 'if it 
ain't broke, don't fix it' comes to mind.

	
-- 
Harris J. Roth, Senior Programmer Analyst    hroth@ncratl.atlantaga.NCR.COM 
Network Systems                              (404) 623-7749  VP: 751-7749
Transaction Terminal and Retail Systems Division     
NCR E&M Atlanta                              
Newsgroups: misc.consumers.house
From: richard.potter@rose.com (richard potter)
Subject: Wood Floors  Using Pi
Organization: Rose Media Inc, Toronto, Ontario.
Distribution: misc
Date: Fri, 22 Jan 1993 03:18:45 GMT
X-Gated-By: Usenet <==> RoseMail Gateway (v1.70)


Date Entered: 01-21-93 22:14
R(>to look at pine flooring (lodge pole, sp?).  My question is, is using pine a
R(>very wise decision?

This is a very popular question, here in Canada, where we really like
things made of wood (g)

I'm sure you will get many responses, mentioning pine warping ( tounge & groove
kiln dried etc has almost fixed this problem) Knots in the pine (some people
like the looks) etc.

BUT, pine is sooffftttt, it will mark easily if you are not carefull (the
harder you mark, the deeper it is) and knots that you once thought were
showing charcter, will develop into little round plugs you find in the dogs
or childrens mouth.

Moral, if you want to do it cheap, and look OK, pine will do. BUT, if you
want to live a little and have it last, use oak.

There is always carpet?

Best Regards,


Richard Potter
Kingston, Ontario,  Canada
FidoNet 1:249/140
richard.potter@canrem.com

 * DeLuxe2/386 1.25 #792sa * Bell Canada sends me Birthday Cards !!
---
   RoseMail 2.00 : RoseNet<=>Usenet Gateway : Rose Media 416-733-2285
Newsgroups: misc.consumers.house
From: patter@dasher.cc.bellcore.com (patterson,george r)
Subject: Re: Cantilever max overhang?
Organization: Bellcore, Livingston, NJ
Date: Mon, 25 Jan 93 02:20:03 GMT

In article <90567@ncratl.AtlantaGA.NCR.COM> Roland=Henrie%Gazelle%Terminals@Ops3.AtlantaGA.NCR.COM (Roland HenriRoland=Henrie%Gazelle%Terminals@Ops3.AtlantaGA.NCR.COM (Roland HenriRoland=Henrie%Gazelle%Terminals@Ops3.AtlantaGA.NCR.COM (Roland HenriRoland=Henrie%Gazelle%Terminals@Ops3.AtlantaGA.NCR.CRoland=Henrie%Gazelle%Terminals writes:
>What is the maximum overhang for a cantilever with 14' or 15' floor joists?  
>Is 3' too far?
>
>Do the joist need to be 12" on center or is 16" fine?

Depends on the wood species. Assuming 2x10 joists and 16" spacing, you
can go a tad over 4' with a species like yellow pine or larch, about
3.5' with Hemlock or southern fir, and a tad over 3' with Western pines,
cedar or spruce.

Put from the other direction, for a 3' overhang, you'll need 2x8 Southern
Pine, or 2x10 just about anything else.

Those figures will give you acceptable results for a 40 pound per square
foot live load plus 10 pound per square foot dead load. Check the framing
codes; the dead loads are directly dependent on the construction of the
rest of the house.

I would recommend that you check out the joists that are constructed from
plywood with 2x4 edges. Plywood has tremendous resistance to lateral 
pressure and might do a better job in this application.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------
                    | Alpha test version - Too buggy to be released.
                    | Beta test version - Still too buggy to be released.
George Patterson -  | Release 1.0 - Alternate pronunciation of beta
                    |   test version.
                    |                            The Dumpty Dictionary
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Newsgroups: misc.consumers.house
Subject: Re: Wood Floors  Using Pine!
From: gary@cdthq.UUCP (Gary Heston)
Date: Thu, 21 Jan 93 18:35:49 CST
Organization: Garys' Home for Obsolete Computers

rickt@rmtc.paramax.com (Rick Thompson [RMTC/ISP]) writes:

> 
> I have house that was built in (around) 1907 and need to replace the wood
> floors.  The floor will have variable width (2" to 6") planks from 6 to 10
> feet in length.  Currently the floor is fur, I think.  After calling around f
> prices on oak and fur flooring (by the way I'm putting it in myself) I've dec
> that the cost is just "way" more than I care to spend.  I've therefore decide
> to look at pine flooring (lodge pole, sp?).  My question is, is using pine a
> very wise decision?

No.

My youngest brother has pine flooring in his log home (at his wifes'
insistance). I helped sand and finish it (the contractor walked out
after blowing all the money from the loan, leaving the house unfinished
inside) almost exactly three years ago. It's full of dings and dents,
especially in the kitchen and living room (every time her friends 
come over for a trinket party, the high heels cause more damage); they
ended up putting carpet in the upstairs, mostly because it was cold,
I think.

If your flooring just looks bad, rent a sander and redo it. Replace
any pieces that are really bad (rotted or split) first, sand it all
down (wear dust masks and earmuffs), and refinish it. You'll want to
move out while doing this, due to the dust, but the result will be 
well worth it.

Gary Heston, at home.....           ....you can't imagine how fast
gary@cdthq.uucp                         pine pitch clogs sandpaper...
Newsgroups: misc.consumers.house
From: patter@dasher.cc.bellcore.com (patterson,george r)
Subject: Re: Power and current
Organization: Bellcore, Livingston, NJ
Date: Mon, 25 Jan 93 02:21:53 GMT
Keywords: Power and current

In article <C1Bq16.2EA@math.okstate.edu> dunne@math.okstate.edu (Ed Dunne) writes:
>If I have an appliance with a heating element rated at 850 watts, how
>much current (in amps) is it going to draw in a standard 110V circuit?

Amps = Watts / Volts. I'll leave the rest to you.


-----------------------------------------------------------------------
                    | Alpha test version - Too buggy to be released.
                    | Beta test version - Still too buggy to be released.
George Patterson -  | Release 1.0 - Alternate pronunciation of beta
                    |   test version.
                    |                            The Dumpty Dictionary
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Newsgroups: misc.consumers.house
From: billj@b11.ingr.com (Bill Johnson)
Subject: Re: septic lines
Organization: Intergraph Corp. Huntsville, AL
Distribution: misc
Date: Thu, 21 Jan 1993 18:39:14 GMT

In article <leonard.727451117@aix3090b.uky.edu>, leonard@aix3090b.uky.edu (Leonard Lauria) writes:
|> How, aside from lots of digging!!, can one find the location of 
|> the septic lines?
|> 
|> I would like to know where they are so I can plan on keeping everything
|> else away from the field.
|> 
|> Any simple ways?
|> 
|> thanks!
|> 
|> Leonard
|> 
|> 
|> --
|> 
|> ===========================================================================
|>    -This space intentionally left blank.
|> 

When I purchased my home, I was provided a plat of the lot, with a diagram showing the house, septic
tank, and septic lines.  While not drawn to scale, I have a good idea of where the lines are.  You may
be able to obtain a similar drawing or such.  If you know who installed the septic tank, they may have
some details on how/whereit was installed.

Bill
From: ettinger@rice-chex.ai.mit.edu (Gil Ettinger)
Newsgroups: misc.consumers.house
Subject: Electrical wire temp ratings
Date: 21 Jan 1993 16:30:31 GMT
Organization: MIT Artificial Intelligence Lab
Distribution: na
NNTP-Posting-Host: rice-chex.ai.mit.edu


I've noticed that many light fixtures (not necessarily recessed, but
ones that are close to the ceiling and take a sum total of about 100W
of bulbs) sold nowadays come with a warning stating that "homes built
before 1985 have wiring rated at 60 degrees (C)" and these fixtures
require wiring rated at 75 or 90 degrees.

My twenty-five year old wiring (Romex-like with plastic or cloth outer
insulation) does not state any temperature rating. Does anyone know
what type of wiring this warning applies to and what needs to be done
to use such light fixtures (in pre-1985 homes)?

Thanks,

-Gil

Newsgroups: misc.consumers.house
From: macrakis@osf.org (Stavros Macrakis)
Subject: Re: when does it make sense to reduce the
Organization: OSF Research Institute
	<1j6t65INNni6@matt.ksu.ksu.edu>
	<MACRAKIS.93Jan15152224@lakatos.osf.org>
	<1jhrnbINNet1@matt.ksu.ksu.edu>
	<MACRAKIS.93Jan20125536@lakatos.osf.org>
	<1jn4eoINNo2f@matt.ksu.ksu.edu>
Distribution: na
Date: 25 Jan 93 18:12:38

In article <1jn4eoINNo2f@matt.ksu.ksu.edu> psb@matt.ksu.ksu.edu (Jr Phillip S Buckland) writes:

	   Accepting the assumption that inflation is here to stay,

Inflation is lower today than it has been in twenty-five years or so.

	   and likewise accepting that for most people, real income
	   doesn't keep up with the rate of inflation,

Median income has grown faster than inflation for most of the century,
except the Great Depression and the Reagan/Bush years.  During
Reagan/Bush, the rich got a disproportionate share of income
increases....

           what does that imply about one's financial position 20
           years down the road?  All of the necessities of life cost
	   more, one's income hasn't kept pace with inflation, so one
	   cannot as easily afford what was easily afforded 20 years
	   ago.

If you believe that inflation will be high, you should indebt yourself
(at a fixed rate!) as much as possible and over as long a period as
possible.  That way, the money you pay back will be worth less that
the money you borrowed.

	-s
Newsgroups: misc.consumers.house
From: nancy@hayduke (Nancy Feagans)
Subject: Re: Dispute with Home Owners Assn - Advice Sought
Organization: Jet Propulsion Laboratory (NASA)
Date: Thu, 28 Jan 1993 19:38:20 GMT

In article <1993Jan28.141316.6154@linus.mitre.org> bwise@hemlock.mitre.org (Barry Wise) writes:
>In article <kgeib.728184747@truckee> kgeib@truckee.qualcomm.com (Ken Geib)  
>writes:
>> bsardis@netcom.com (Barry Sardis) writes:
>> 
>> >I own a condo. I engaged a mangement company to locate a tenant.
>> >This is the same company that manages the complex for the HOA. The
>> >tenants have a dog and they keep it chained on the patio.
>> 
>> >Some residents complained about the dog. The HOA CC&Rs do not allow
>> >pets in the complex. There are lots of cats in the complex, roaming
>> >free.
>> 
>> >I have had conversations with the management company on the situation.
>> >There have been some discussions and compromises. The management
>> >company sends threatening letters and fines my account. I wrote a
>> >letter asking for a dialog, but the next letter was more of the same
>> >without even an acknowledgement of my letter.
>> 
>
>Did you sign the contract with the tenants yourself or through the management  
>company? If you did not inform the tenants of the restrictive covenants then  
>you are responsible for the situation. If the management company did the  
>contract for you they are probably liable for not informing the tenant of the  
>restrictions. 
>
>The fact that other violations exist in the complex is not relevant to your  
>problem, just as the police not catching all speeders absovles you from a  
>speeding ticket.  Why do you insist on breaking the covenants? Is there a legal  
>reason you can't comply? Why do they keep it chained on the patio? Does it  
>bark? Is it otherwise a nuisance (threatening, growling, making messes?). Why  
>didn't you tell them of the restictions? Did you think they don't apply to you?
>
>Obey the rules or get them changed.
>

I'm the President of a large HOA in Southern California and one thing
we (The Board) insists on is that owners of rental units provide their
tenants with a copy of both the CC&Rs and the Rules and Regulations.  This
is even stated in our governing documents.  If the tenant breaks the
rules, the owner is sent a warning (with a copy to the tenant); if the
problem continues, the OWNER receives a fine; it is then up to the 
owner to pass along the cost to their tenant and to work to resolve
the problem.  Our management company only gets involved when we decide
to levy fines after repeated occurances of the same offense.  Keep in
mind that it is the OWNER who is the member of the Association; not 
the tenant.  Therefore, it is the responsibility of any owner who
chooses to rent their unit to make sure their tenant understands that
they, too, are bound by the CC&Rs and the Rules and Regulations.

-- 

Nancy J. Feagans     (818) 306-6423
Jet Propulsion Lab   nancy@jpl-devvax.Jpl.Nasa.Gov
"Not a shred of evidence exists in favor of the idea that life is serious."
Newsgroups: misc.consumers.house
Subject: Re: HELP! electrical problem
From: michael@sunbeam.ksc.nasa.gov (Michael D. Myjak x7-3286)
Date: 27 Jan 93 12:22:00
Distribution: misc.consumers.house
Organization: NASA, Kennedy Space Center, FL.
In-reply-to: moroney@world.std.com's message of Wed, 27 Jan 1993 05:19:15 GMTLines: 45

In article <C1Hys4.4DC@world.std.com> moroney@world.std.com (Michael Moroney) writes:

   > abbott@priory.enet.dec.com (Robert Abbott) writes:
   >>
   >Neutral from the street!!??  Where do you live that the power company runs
   >a neutral line?  The only "bare steel cable" I am familiar with is purely
   >for mechanical strength.

   All places that get 120V/240V single phase service get 3 conductors from
   the pole. There are 2 "hots" and a neutral.  The voltage between the two hots
   is 240 volts, the voltage between either hot and the neutral is 120 volts.

Mike's right. We just had a new underground service installed. They
used #4o for the two hot lines, and #1o for the neutral return.
-- BTW, I have a dual 200amp setup --

WRT the original poster, this really won't apply 'cus its about a new
installation. None the less, the flickering is indeed indicative of a
problem. It can be a bad neutral, or it can be a short, or even
something else. We experienced a similar "flickering" with our system,
although no smell or smoke.  We complained to the utility company, and
they came out and put a meter on the line for several days in order to
get a handle on the problem. The meter reading showed them that the
line voltage on one leg of the circuit was indeed dropping -- by almost
10%!

What they found out was that the original installation engineer -- for
the power company -- had used (specified) an undersized wire for the
length needed (~700') to connect to a previously existing transformer.
(Me thinks that they did this to prevent having to install another
transformer on the corner of my lot and therefore save big $$$).
Rather then dig up and replace the almost 700' underground, they cut
the lines and connected them to a newly installed transformer.  This
cut the secondary line length in half. Apparently it was this long run
that caused me to have a brown-out situation when ever high demand
device (like a dishwasher or garbage disposal!) was turned on.

--
- Michael D. Myjak			
  Senior Technical Specialist, Systems Analyst
  McDonnell Douglas Space Systems Company
  Kennedy Space Center, Fl., 32815
  MYJAK@TITAN.KSC.NASA.GOV

Gravity. It's not just a good idea. Its the LAW!
Newsgroups: misc.consumers.house
From: brett@sr.hp.com ()
Subject: Re: Breaker won't reset
Date: Mon, 25 Jan 1993 17:45:45 GMT
Organization: HP Sonoma County (SRSD/MWTD/MID)
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1 PL8.1]

brett@sr.hp.com wrote:
> So, do I need to replace the breaker?

Thanks for all the input.  I replaced the breaker over the weekend (pretty easy
once I figured how to get the thing out!).

The only bummer was how expensive replacement breakers are.  Oh well...

--

							Brett Carver
							(707) 577-4344
							brett@sr.hp.com
From: dcole@ua.d.umn.edu (david cole)
Newsgroups: misc.consumers.house
Subject: Are there any smart thermostats?
Date: 23 Jan 93 15:34:34 GMT
Distribution: na
Organization: University of Minnesota, Duluth
NNTP-Posting-Host: ua.d.umn.edu

I saw a post recently about a smart thermostat.  It didn't sound smart
enough for me.  It seems to me that a smart thermostat would be one that
"knew" what the heat requirements are likely to be.  The only smarts I have
seen in thermostats is the anticipator, which cuts the heat off BEFORE the
thermostat proper indicates the set temp has been reached.  What I think _I_
need is a thermostat that cuts the heat ON BEFORE the thermostat calls for
heat.  Why -- big masonry house in very cold climate with steam heat.  The
regular Honeywell thermostats I have result in way too much hysteresis,
because by the time the temp has dropped enough to trigger the thermostat, it
will continue to drop while steam comes up.  Do they make _really_ smart home
thermostats, that, for example, have a clue as to what the OUTSIDE
temperature is so they can determine the make-up heat needed and supply it
in a genuinely timely fashion and not when some bimetallic strip says "its
too cold in here!".  Seems reasonable to ask that a heating system keep the
right temp, not oscillate between too hot and too cold....

Dave in Duluth
Newsgroups: misc.consumers.house
From: dunne@math.okstate.edu (Ed Dunne)
Subject: Power and current
Summary: How much current does a 850 W appliance draw?
Keywords: Power and current
Organization: Oklahoma State University, Math Department
Date: Sat, 23 Jan 1993 20:24:42 GMT

If I have an appliance with a heating element rated at 850 watts, how
much current (in amps) is it going to draw in a standard 110V circuit?

Ed Dunne
From: brooksp@hpcc01.corp.hp.com (Peter Brooks)
Date: Fri, 22 Jan 1993 20:34:51 GMT
Subject: Re: Wood Floors  Using Pine!
Organization: the HP Corporate notes server
Newsgroups: misc.consumers.house

[Just stopped by for a bit...]

Hmm, I've never seen "fur" flooring.  Sounds pretty decadent.  :-)

I'm using fir as a finish flooring in my kitchen.  Can't say I'm
thrilled with it, and some of my problems have bearing on most pine.
I cannot speak about Southern Yellow pine, however; never used it.

Fir particularly is quite responsive to changes in humidity.  It will
swell and shrink a lot more than oak, so you tend to get more crud in
the gaps, and it's difficult to come up with any sealants for this.
I suspect pine will swell more than oak, but less than fir.

Fir and many pines (probably not SY, however) are pretty soft; you will
have to be careful in moving things around unless you are willing to
put up with the 'surface entertainment'.

Fir tends to show quite a bit of figure; after a few seasons, you will
see a lot of ripple as the earlywood and latewood shrink at different
rates.  Whether this is a bug or a feature is up to you.  Pine should
not have this problem.  BTW, vertical grain fir probably wouldn't, but
it's rare, and last I looked, was as expensive as oak.

BTW, I'm using fir because it was originally used as underlayment in
my kitchen.  I took up the lino and finished the fir because I wanted to
see how well a wood floor worked in a kitchen (fairly well) and because
I didn't want to do an oak floor until I could get ready to do a more
thorough remodel.  If the budget ever lets me, I'll replace the fir
with oak, but I'm not holding my breath.

Pete Brooks

Newsgroups: misc.consumers.house
From: pjh@mccc.edu (Pete Holsberg)
Subject: Re: No Hot Water!
Organization: The College On The Other Side Of Route One
Distribution: na
Date: Tue, 19 Jan 1993 19:22:06 GMT

In article <880r-vh@dixie.com> jgd@dixie.com (John De Armond) writes:
=pjh@mccc.edu (Pete Holsberg) writes:
=
=>In the middle of my shower, the water went from "nice" to "cool." I have
=>a 40 gallon Bradford heater that has a 30.5 gallon/hour recovery rate.
=
=40 gallon is kinda small for a family of 3.

Hmmmm....what's a typical flow rate from a faucet?

=The hysterisis in the thermostat is generally fixed.  You have a couple of
=options.  You can turn the thermostat up higher so that you use less
=of hotter water during your shower.  This will probably be very effective,
=particularly if someone has been propagandized into turning the heat
=way down to "save energy".

It was halfway between "normal" and "max", so I pushed it to "max."

=You can install a larger heater, at least
=a 60 gallon.  Or you could do like I did and install a tankless heater.  This 
=things heat water in real-time, on demand so there is no limit to the amount of
=water you can use.  I love those long, steamy 100 gallon showers so this
=thing is a Godsend for my house.  The only downside is the cost - about 
=$500-700.

That sounds interesting. Where is it installed? How does it work?
Newsgroups: misc.consumers.house