HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
Newsgroups: ont.general,can.general,soc.culture.canada,ott.general
Subject: Re: sidebar re 401
From: emd@ham.almanac.bc.ca
Date: Wed, 12 Aug 92 10:06:54 PDT
Distribution: can
Organization: Mid Island Ham Network

dwjz@bnr.ca (Doug Zolmer) writes:

> In article <1992Aug11.172726.7907@r-node.gts.org>, marc@r-node.gts.org (Marc 
> |> 	I think they are called highways...never been told otherwise.
> |> Its 'Trans-Canada Highway', which I know for the most part is limited
> |> access.  I think the 401 is the 'Macdonald-Cartier Highway', isn't it?
> |> And that is limited access.
> |> 
> |> 	Someone please correct me if I'm wrong :)
> |> 
> 
> Sure!  It's the 'MacDonald-Cartier Freeway'.
>                                    ^^^^^^^
> 
> All limited access multi-lane roads are freeways, all others are called
> highways.
> 


No, they're not. Freeways are called "free"ways to distinguish them from 
toll highways, something you're obviously not familiar with (something to 
give thanks for, believe me!). What they get called depends on local 
terminology, as what you call a freeway is also called an autoroute, an 
interstate, or simply a highway, depending on where you live. 


emd@ham.almanac.bc.ca (Robert Smits Ladysmith BC)
Newsgroups: ont.general
From: roihar@cc4.crl.aecl.ca
Subject: RE: STEVE GREEN Concert
Organization: AECL RESEARCH
Date: Tue, 18 Aug 1992 13:26:04 GMT

who the H*** is Steve Green...
Xref: sparky ont.general:1530 can.general:3948 soc.culture.canada:5692 ott.general:788
From: coxm@Software.Mitel.COM (Michael Cox)
Newsgroups: ont.general,can.general,soc.culture.canada,ott.general
Subject: Re: sidebar re 401
Date: 11 Aug 92 13:10:46 GMT
Distribution: can
Organization: Mitel. Kanata (Ontario). Canada.

In article <1992Aug7.204028.4262@bnr.ca> dwjz@bnr.ca writes:
>In article <1992Aug7.164304.21478@eci386.uucp>, rstory@eci386.uucp (Robert Story) writes:
>|> [...]           This bunches up traffic and *forces* one to go
>|> around on their right side.  This is, of course, illegal BUT they
>|> don't respond to flashing lights and *other* hints. [...]
>
>In Ontario, passing on the right on a multi-lane highway or freeway _is_
>legal.  However, one of the rules in the HTA (Highway Traffic Act) is 
If so then why in the 1991 version of the Drivers Hand book does it state that
you may NOT pass to the right of any vehicle unless it is turning left AND there
is sufficient space to the right of the vehicle such that the vehicle does not
run onto the shoulder of the road.  So you cannot pass a vehicle on the right
unless it is turning left.  There are not many vehicles turning left on the 401!
>
>Another misconception is that passing on a single lane highway or freeway
>is only allowed when a dashed/broken line is present.  In Ontario, passing
>is permitted at any time except where prohibited by the use of signs.  The
>lines are merely there to show you where the safe places to pass are.
They are enforcable!  I passed a truck when the line was double solid.  I was
pulled off by the O.P.P. (luckily with only a warning :-)) and was told that
it IS ILLEGAL to pass a vehicle when the line is solid on your side.  I wasn't
stopped because of my speed, I hadn't even reached the speed limit when the
O.P.P. pulled me over.

-- 
Michael H. Cox      | ". . . but there is some hope of a constitutional
                    |  settlement"  Monty Python 1971
Mitel Corporation   | "My Canada includes Alberta, B.C., P.E.I., N.S., N.B.,
                    | Ontario, Quebec, Manitoba, Sask., Yukon, Nfld, and N.W.T."
Newsgroups: ont.general,can.general,soc.culture.canada
From: davecb@nexus.yorku.ca (David Collier-Brown)
Subject: Re: sdebar re passing or right (was sidebar re 401 (: -))
Organization: York University
Distribution: can
Date: Sun, 16 Aug 1992 15:25:44 GMT

buckland@ucs.ubc.ca (Tony Buckland) writes:
|> In article <1992Aug12.032748.18690@sq.sq.com> rph@sq.sq.com (Pontus Hedman (VE3RPH)) writes:
|> >	If you get passed on the right, YOU are doing something wrong.
|> >	It shouldn't have been been possible. You're in the wrong lane.
|> >	Move right.
[...]
|>  When I'm driving at the limit, I'll be buggered if
|>  I'll inconvenience myself to accomodate somebody else's demand
|>  that he be allowed to drive at whatever speed suits him.

  But that's silly!  The duty to keep right is a universal good.  You
should be preapred to inconvenice yourself to some degree for the
general good, so that others will do the same for you.  Such as yeild
a space when you need to move right, let you merge easily into the
right lane when entering the highway and the like.

  We're preaching the golden rule, you understand...

--dave

-- 
David Collier-Brown,  | davecb@Nexus.YorkU.CA | lethe!dave
72 Abitibi Ave.,      | 
Willowdale, Ontario,  | Stupidity is evil waiting to happen.
CANADA. 416-223-8968  |               -- Clay Bond
From: molonymg@king.dist7040.rotary.org (Martin Molony)
Newsgroups: ont.general
Subject: Dublin Ireland
Keywords: Help
Date: 15 Aug 92 15:44:46 GMT
Reply-To: king!molonymg@vicuna.ocunix.on.ca (Martin Molony)
Organization: Kingston Rotary System, Kingston, ON (613) 546-3078

I am from Dublin Ireland and I call into this Rotarian site at least
once every 2 weeks to look at the news re-Rotarians, I was wondering if 
there was any sites in Dublin Ireland where I could call locally to have 
my E-Mail sent to the Kingston,Ontario Canada site.

------------------------------------------------------------
molonymg@king.dist7040.rotary.org (Martin Molony)
Kingston Rotary System BBS - 613/546-3078 [9600 v.32/.42bis]
Newsgroups: ont.general,can.general,soc.culture.canada,ott.general
From: myhui@bnr.ca (Michael Hui)
Subject: Re: sidebar re 401
Organization: Bell-Northern Research Ltd., Ottawa, Canada
Distribution: can
Date: Wed, 12 Aug 92 20:53:58 GMT

In article <1992Aug12.131933.24200@bnr.ca> alanw@bnr.ca writes:
>-- A typical merge on to the Queensway means accelerate to 120 km/hr on
>   the ramp, immediately switch 2 lanes to the left, and then slow down
>   to 90 km/hr.  Drivers who want to go faster immediately switch 3 lanes
>   to the left, and then tailgate in the left lane at 130 km/hr.  Exiting
>   is done in the same manner:  switch 2/3 lanes right at the last second.
>   The right lane is unused.  So are acceleration lanes.

Be careful. If there is a car in front of you as you enter the highway,
meaning a car in the same entrance ramp as you, but going slower, and
you zip out to the next lane on the left and start going faster than
the car now on your right, that slower car may decide it has run out of
ramp space and have to merge left, hence you'll be forced to go one more
lane to the left. Bang .... you hadn't checked out two lanes to the left
for space when you merge, hence even though the rightmost lane was empty
(you're on it now), the one over to the left was not, and still isn't.

A low skilled driver tried that once behind me, when I was the slower
car in front entering the highway, and he was hit in the rear of the
car, did a few 360's horizontally, banged itself up good on the center
divider, before fortunately coming to a stop on the right side shoulder.

Michael MY Hui          myhui@bnr.ca           Ottawa Canada
Newsgroups: ont.general,can.general,soc.culture.canada,ott.general
From: richard@csi.on.ca (Richard Martin)
Subject: Re: sidebar re 401
Organization: Carp Systems International, Kanata, ON
Distribution: can
Date: Thu, 13 Aug 1992 12:40:12 GMT

In article <12564@coxm> coxm@Software.Mitel.COM (Michael Cox) writes:
>Michael H. Cox      | ". . . but there is some hope of a constitutional
>                    |  settlement"  Monty Python 1971
>Mitel Corporation   | "My Canada includes Alberta, B.C., P.E.I., N.S., N.B.,
>                    | Ontario, Quebec, Manitoba, Sask., Yukon, Nfld, and N.W.T."
Yes, but does it include the Turks and Cacaos Islands?  (sp.?) =)
Richard.

Newsgroups: ont.general,can.general,soc.culture.canada,ott.general
From: keithh@bnr.ca (Keith Hanlan)
Subject: Re: sidebar re 401
Organization: Bell-Northern Research Ltd., Ottawa
Distribution: can
Date: Thu, 13 Aug 1992 00:09:28 GMT

In article <1992Aug12.162236.8421@alchemy.chem.utoronto.ca> jgoldber@todah.chem.utoronto.ca (Joel Goldberg) writes:
>In article <1992Aug12.131933.24200@bnr.ca> alanw@bnr.ca writes:
>>In article <1992Aug12.012013.2494@dgbt.doc.ca>, ted@dgbt.doc.ca (Ted Grusec) writes:
>>
>>|> the orthogonal road to finish going through the (now) red light. And
>>|> yellow, going through which in Toronto yields an instant large fine

Nonsense.  If you are in the intersection when the amber turns to
red, there is no offense committed.  Speeding up to accomplish
this, on the other hand, can certainly net you a fine - probably
for careless driving in lieu of a radar-corroborated reading.

>
>   In Toronto, all intersections have a four way red, which gives
>   drivers a chance to complete their left turns. In Ottawa, orange to
>   red happens simultaneously with red to green in the orthogonal road.

When was the last time you were in Ottawa?  This hasn't been true
for over 8 years.  The MTO "Manual of Uniform Traffic Control
Devices" (1985) defines this practice of 4-way red and encourages
its use throughout Ontario. That doesn't mean that I like it.

Keith Hanlan  KeithH@bnr.ca  Bell-Northern Research, Ottawa, Canada 613-765-4645
Newsgroups: ont.general,can.general,soc.culture.canada,ott.general
From: dwjz@bnr.ca (Doug Zolmer)
Subject: Weird Ottawa Traffic  
Reply-To: dwjz@bnr.ca (Doug Zolmer)
Organization: Bell-Northern Research Ltd.
Distribution: can
Date: Wed, 12 Aug 1992 18:56:34 GMT

In article <1992Aug12.162236.8421@alchemy.chem.utoronto.ca>, jgoldber@todah.chem.utoronto.ca (Joel Goldberg) writes:
|>    In Toronto, all intersections have a four way red, which gives
|>    drivers a chance to complete their left turns. In Ottawa, orange to
|>    red happens simultaneously with red to green in the orthogonal road.

Really?  Most intersections I drive through in Ottawa have a 2 to 4
second 4-way red cycle.  It's been like that for many, many years.

There are very few timer operated signals left that still do things
the old fashioned way.  Most of the signals now operate on impedance
sensors imbedded in the pavement, and all of these have the 4-way 
red cycle.
-- 
dwjz@bnr.ca  Voice: +1 613 763-8217  Disclaimer: my opinions only  
Xref: sparky ont.general:1555 can.general:3973 soc.culture.canada:5727 ott.general:817
From: grayt@Software.Mitel.COM (Tom Gray)
Newsgroups: ont.general,can.general,soc.culture.canada,ott.general
Subject: Re: Weird Ottawa Traffic
Date: 13 Aug 92 15:07:20 GMT
Distribution: can
Organization: Mitel. Kanata (Ontario). Canada.

In article <1992Aug12.185634.2793@bnr.ca> dwjz@bnr.ca (Doug Zolmer) writes:
>In article <1992Aug12.162236.8421@alchemy.chem.utoronto.ca>, jgoldber@todah.chem.utoronto.ca (Joel Goldberg) writes:
>|>    In Toronto, all intersections have a four way red, which gives
>|>    drivers a chance to complete their left turns. In Ottawa, orange to
>|>    red happens simultaneously with red to green in the orthogonal road.
>
>Really?  Most intersections I drive through in Ottawa have a 2 to 4
>second 4-way red cycle.  It's been like that for many, many years.
>

Is this the reason that you see Ottawa drivers barrleing through
intersections just as the light turns red. I've noticed that respect
for the amber light seems to be diminishing rapidly.

Another tactic I've seen is the entering of the roadway from
a private road or driveway without stopping. This is done at
high speed without any observation of traffic on the roadway.
As with many other strange driving habits, this was pioneered
by OC Transpo drivers. I asked one who had just driven onto the
street from an obscured shopping mall exit without stopping, why
he did this. He said that there was no stop sign. I suppose
the pedestrains on the sidewalk he just sped over would have
differing opionions on the rules of the road.



-- 
i.sinature
Newsgroups: ont.general
From: sjgreen@watdragon.uwaterloo.ca
Subject: Re: STEVE GREEN Concert
Organization: University of Waterloo
Date: Tue, 18 Aug 1992 17:00:07 GMT

roihar@cc4.crl.aecl.ca writes:
> who the H*** is Steve Green...

Yeah, who the hell is... oh.

Steve
-- 
Maxims for Living #1:                              |
   Measure twice, cut once.  It's hard to make     |        Stephen Green
   a board longer.                                 | sjgreen@logos.uwaterloo.ca
Newsgroups: ont.general,can.general,soc.culture.canada,ott.general
From: jgoldber@todah.chem.utoronto.ca (Joel Goldberg)
Subject: Re: Weird Ottawa Traffic  
Organization: University of Toronto Chemistry Department
Distribution: can
Date: Wed, 12 Aug 1992 20:49:32 GMT

In article <1992Aug12.185634.2793@bnr.ca> dwjz@bnr.ca (Doug Zolmer) writes:
   And many others write
>In article <1992Aug12.162236.8421@alchemy.chem.utoronto.ca>, jgoldber@todah.chem.utoronto.ca (Joel Goldberg) writes:
>|>    In Toronto, all intersections have a four way red, which gives
>|>    drivers a chance to complete their left turns. In Ottawa, orange to
>|>    red happens simultaneously with red to green in the orthogonal road.
>
>Really?  Most intersections I drive through in Ottawa have a 2 to 4
>second 4-way red cycle.  It's been like that for many, many years.
>
>There are very few timer operated signals left that still do things
>the old fashioned way.  Most of the signals now operate on impedance
>sensors imbedded in the pavement, and all of these have the 4-way 
>red cycle.
   Ok, I stand corrected. I moved from Ottawa to Toronto in 1979 and the
   four way red was the first thing I noticed. Since 1983 I haven't
   been back to Ottawa for more than a day or two at a time, so I've
   missed some changes, apparently.
Newsgroups: ont.general
From: christo@bcarh803.BNR.CA (Mark Christopher)
Subject: Re: 401 and Interstate contrasts
Reply-To: christo@bnr.ca
Organization: Bell-Northern Research Ltd.
Distribution: can
Date: Fri, 14 Aug 1992 00:02:11 GMT

In article <3708@ecicrl.ocunix.on.ca>, clewis@ferret.ocunix.on.ca (Chris
Lewis) writes:
|>In article <1992Aug12.173230.25293@sq.sq.com> donald@sq.sq.com (Donald
Teed) writes:
|>>The highways here have very poor standards with regards to planning
|>>merging areas and lengths, and also the number of lanes one must
|>>change to in order to get to the right place.  In the U.S., the merge
|>>lanes are long and constantly that way - which means that heavy
|>>vehicles can merge without causing breaking, lane switching and
|>>accidents.
|>
|>Actually, after extensive driving in various places in the US and Canada,
|>I've come to the opposite conclusion.  Merge lanes in California
|>are almost always *very* short.   [[...]]
...

I suppose it depends on where the interstates are.  Out west where
there is lots of room and fewer natural obstacles, both interstates
and the trans-canada have long merge lanes.

In the east, I think the interstates are in a lot of cases worse than
the highways in Canada.  And that doesn't even include Pennsylvania's
dumb STOP sign when you enter an interstate, as well as short merge and
exit lanes  (This I experienced last year when I went to D.C., which
in my opinion has the worst roads of any city I have ever been in.)


[[Point about trying to merge from a cloverleaf while others are trying
to exit.]]

I think cloverleafs are not useful on high capacity highways.  There
cause congestion at high flow rates.  Thankfully, the cloverleaf at
Pinecrest (417 westbound) was removed.  That was a terrible intersection.
-- 
Mark Christopher        Bell-Northern Research          christo@bnr.ca
Newsgroups: ont.general,can.general,soc.culture.canada,ott.general
From: jims@bnr.ca (Jim Spallin)
Subject: Re: sidebar re 401
Reply-To: 1596118@x400gate.bnr.ca
Organization: Bell-Northern Research Ltd., Ottawa, Ontario, Canada
Distribution: can
Date: Wed, 12 Aug 92 14:17:13 GMT

In article <1992Aug12.131933.24200@bnr.ca>, alanw@bnr.ca (Alan Williams) writes:
|> In article <1992Aug12.012013.2494@dgbt.doc.ca>, ted@dgbt.doc.ca (Ted Grusec) writes:
|> 
|> I also learned to drive in the Toronto area, and now live with Ottawa's
|> awful drivers.  Many people who live in Ottawa find it unbelievable that
|> I would prefer to drive in Toronto than Ottawa, but Toronto drivers,
|> bus drivers, and pedestrians are all safer than they are here.  I find
|> that my own standards of driving have declined, so that I don't do anything
|> that surprises the average Ottawa driver.  After all, I don't want to
|> get rear-ended stopping for a yellow light :-)
|> 
|> Some other rules from the unofficial driver's guide to Ottawa :-)
|> 
   stuff deleted. 
|> 
|> -- It's okay to jaywalk right in front of the police.
Of course it is, all of us true Ottawans are buddy-buddy with the 
cops, they wouldn't give us a second look unless we killed someone,
on purpose.  :-)

Are you actually talking about jay walking - something about defined as 
crossing a road within 20 yards of an intersection and not crossing at
the intersection on the light.  From what I remember about jay walking,
as long as you cross the road more than 20 yards from an intersection
it isn't jay walking.  Can anyone confirm this??

|> -- Driving over 100 km/hr through the 416/417 construction zone is expected
|>    although the limit is 70 km/hr.  After all, where else can you test
|>    your car's handling on lanes that zig-zag suddenly?

I still question why they reduce the speed through there.  I've driven a 
friends pony, can you think of a car with poorer handling, through there
at 110 with no problem.  But then again I'm one of those Ottawa drivers :-)
|> 

Now for the kicker.  I was born and raised in Ottawa and when I'm out
with a group of friends they're always amazed that someone actually still
lives here who was born here.  Seems to me, its not the "Ottawa" drivers
that are so bad its the large diversity of driving practices that people
from other cities and countries bring with them.  Everybody expects things
to be the same everywhere.  Compare Montreal and Toronto, both big cities,
both have different "common" driving practices.  Mix them all together and
it spells Ottawa.

What I would like to see is stricter law enforcement with a little more 
emphasis on dangerous moves instead of slightly elevated speeding, but
that implies police actually doing some work instead of reading in the 
car until the beeper on the speed gun goes off.

-- 
Jim Spallin, (613)765-2581
Opinions expressed are my own, although others are free to share them
Newsgroups: ont.general
From: kasvand@ccrs.emr.ca (Tony Kasvand)
Subject: Re: traffic etiquette
Keywords: Sorry 
Organization: Canada Centre for Remote Sensing, Ottawa
Distribution: ont
Date: Fri, 14 Aug 1992 15:43:38 GMT

In article <Bsy03p.3xL@gpu.utcs.utoronto.ca> nordgraf@gpu.utcs.utoronto.ca (John Dorn) writes:
>While we seem to be on the subject of traffic rules and
>etiquette, we have all from time to time made a driving
>mistake and have probably received a blast and/or rude
>gesture from the offended driver.
>
>I have often wondered if there is an accepted gesture
>that indicates that "yes I realize I screwed up big-time
>and I am sorry".
>
I just usually wave to them as a way of saying "thanks, I know what I did
wrong."
  
   If, on the other hand, don't feel like being polite...give them
a Pierre Trudeau salute.

-- 
Tonis Kasvand      | "..and then I realized , without a shadow of a doubt,   
Ottawa, Canada     |     I was doubtful."  
kasvand@ccrs.emr.ca|            - Tonis Kasvand  
                             
Newsgroups: ont.general,can.general,soc.culture.canada,ott.general
From: marc@r-node.gts.org (Marc Fournier - Sys Admin)
Subject: Re: sidebar re 401
Organization: R-node Public Access UNIX System (416-249-5366) 24hrs.
Distribution: can
Date: Thu, 13 Aug 1992 19:19:58 GMT

In article <1992Aug12.181640.11979@eci386.uucp> rstory@eci386.uucp (Robert Story) writes:
>Maybe the busses could have someone riding "shotgun" ... she
>could shoot out the car's front/rear lights if the driver didn't
>let the bus go first!  Well, just an idea, mind you.
>
	Great idea...people might be too scared to drive for fear
of being shot at, giving more room on the roads for buses, making
less pollution, etc.  Maybe a law should be written that is less
'threatening' to motorists, like more 'buses-only' lanes? :)

Marc
-- 
Marc G. Fournier      | R-node Public Access Unix running UnixBBS 1.03
Etobicoke, Ontario    | 416-249-5366   24hrs 7 days/week   network email
voice: 249-4230       | shell/feed accounts available   1800+ newsgroups
marc@r-node.pci.on.ca | Telebit T3000/SupraModem2400/Cardinal 2400  FREE
Newsgroups: ont.general,can.general,soc.culture.canada
From: richard@csi.on.ca (Richard Martin)
Subject: Re: sdebar re passing or right (was sidebar re 401 (: -))
Organization: Carp Systems International, Kanata, ON
Distribution: can
Date: Mon, 17 Aug 1992 13:34:29 GMT

In article <1992Aug16.141614.19714@bmerh85.bnr.ca> myhui@bnr.ca (Michael Hui) writes:
>Does Mr. Browne know that Ayrton Senna,
>who's none too fast this season, have forced numerous driver errors by
>just being a bit wide when someone tries to overtake him? Oh, you bet I
>watch those races, and I record them too, and yes, I learn from them!
>and driving a slower car Ayrton's just won another F1 race a moment ago!
>Michael MY Hui          myhui@bnr.ca           Ottawa Canada
Yes, but Nigel Mansell won the Championship yesterday!
Hooray!  Hooray!  Yipeee! =)
He finished second, but he won!  He won!  He won!
Ha ha! =)

Richard Martin.  (Unabashed fan o' Nigel Mansell--the Lion!)
-- 
Richard Martin               	richard@csi.on.ca
"Don't Panic!  Things are about to get much worse!"
Newsgroups: ont.general,can.general,soc.culture.canada,ott.general
From: dagibbs@quantum.on.ca (David Gibbs)
Subject: Re: sidebar re 401
Date: Sun, 16 Aug 92 01:50:25 GMT
Organization: Quantum Software Systems
Distribution: can

In article <1992Aug14.153432.14480@bwdls61.bnr.ca> clewis@ferret.ocunix.on.ca (Chris Lewis) writes:
>In article <2A8B16E4.21EF@telly.on.ca> evan@telly.on.ca (Evan Leibovitch) writes:
>>The Conestoga Parkway(?) from the 401 into Kitchener;
>
>Odd, last time I was there, I coulda sworn it was 80, or perhaps 90.
>

re: Kitchener-Waterloo:

As you come off the 401, you are on a section of highway
that is marked as 100 km/h for a short while, it drops to 80
then 60, at which point there is the exit for the other 100km/h 
highway in KW.  It runs from there to the North end of Waterloo,
and from that point to the west side of Kitchener, marked at 100 km/h
throughout the northern section, and also (I think) the west section.

-David
Newsgroups: ont.general,can.general,soc.culture.canada,ott.general