From: dsoconne@quads.uchicago.edu (Daniel S OConnell)
Subject: Re: ethics of immigration policy - help pls input
Keywords: LDS, immigration, ethics
Reply-To: dsoconne@midway.uchicago.edu
Organization: University of Chicago Computing Organizations
Date: Sat, 12 Dec 1992 06:27:20 GMT

lion@netcom.com (carl loeber) writes:

>How do you feel about leaving natives of the deep Amazon alone to maintain
>their culture intact?   Self-determination (cultural) has been used to 
>define the rihgts of third world societies, what is the problem with 
>applying it to Germany? (for instance).

Amazon culture has not been historically responsible for 
mass genocide on the same level as Nazi Germany. It is
important to remember that the German Gov't is actively
denying civil liberties to neo-Nazi organizations within
Germany. 

Self-determination (like economic policy) is not the same
thing for 1st world countries as it is for 3rd.

Remember Anatole France's quote that the rich and poor alike
are equally free to sleep under bridges.

The fact is that West Germans are only now realizing the
price they are having to pay (taxes, inflation, etc) for
unification. Many are unhappy. Former East Germans are
probably tired of being seen as uncouth little brothers/sisters,
and so the tendency is to look to others as the source for
all discontent (sound familiar?).

>I was in Denmark a few times last year.  Young mothers leave their
>childer in carriages outside while they're inside visiting or shopping
>(a few cursory checks in order).  Can you fault them if they prefer to
>limit changes to their social structure?  (I noticed it twice in about five 
>days).

Change, particularly on the massive social scale in Germany,
can always be unpleasant. Let us not forget however, the tearful
reunions of only a few years ago when the wall came down.

>There existed a sort of race (or area based immigration based) policy 
>until about 1965 in the US.

Okay, okay, so we're ones to talk; but ideals are important.

>My thought about multi-culturalism is that it really may tend to be
>NO-culturalism, because where there exists conflict we devolve to
>the "lowest common denominator" in our social institutions.  For a
>culture to have integrity I think it should find expression in social
>and political institutions, this requires a type of unity.  We have to
>choose.  If your are just talking about Chinese food or African music
>-- no problem.  But if we treat the legal or education system ... you
>get the point.

No, I don't get the point. This sounds suspiciously like "purity".
It is too late to pretend that the world is not pluralistic and
multi-cultural; the only question, is how are we to best and
creatively deal with this?

>You also have the practical issue of the state of the pulbic psyce 
>when there is rapid changes of the social fabric.  If you have traveled
>you know that societies ARE different, and culture DOES matter.   
>I don't think you want to take away from people the ability, or the 
>right if you prefer, to form their own community social customs,
>or fault them because they prefer to spend so time in a society
>which tradition tells them has served their fathers and mothers,
>their ancestors. (some time).

Agreed. Hence the difference between public and private.

Dano