HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: keith@ksmith.uucp (Keith Smith)
Subject: Re: Seemingly poor performance
Organization: Keith's Computer, Hope Mills, NC
Date: Sat, 12 Sep 92 03:27:53 GMT

In article <1992Sep9.154257.7818@glen-ellyn.iit.edu> rgpxs360@glen-ellyn.iit.edu (Peter Stein) writes:
>
>Has anyone seen data on typical scsi performance ? I'm referring to the
>transfer rate, average seek time, and track-to-track seek. I recently
>upgraded my 386-33 system (ISA) to a Micropolis SCSI-2 and Promise 
>caching controller with 1 Meg installed. The performance while better
>than my Ultrastor 12F and ESDI drive combination hardly lives up to the
>billing SCSI has received. While I realize that the advertised rates of
>4 Mb (SCSI), 5 Mb (SCSI-2), and 10 Mb (FAST SCSI) are burst rates which
>can only be obtained under ideal conditions I would expect to at least
>be in the ballpark. Here are the transfer rates as reported by checkit:
>
>  Ultrastor 12F & Micropolis ESDI drive:      945 Kb/s (same w/Norton)
>  Promise DC-2040 (1Mb) & Micropolis SCSI-2:  1773 Kb/s 

Wow.  This is very good.

You are comparing apples to oranges, or in this case the speed of the
interface (5-10MB/sec) to the drives ability to spill it's guts.

>
>The SCSI-2 rate is less than half of the advertised burst rate (5 Mb)
>and not even double the ESDI rate. I have disabled smartdrv caching for
>drives controlled by the Promise controller. What could be wrong here ?
>Thanks for your help.

Nothing is wrong.  You have hit the platter speed.  The max speed the
data will come off the mag media and down to the drive.  There is *NO*
advantage to a SCSI interface with one drive under DOS.  HOWEVER.  The
way SCSI works best is when "scatter-gather" i/o techniques are used on
multiple disks.

The bottom line is that you send multiple read requests out over the bus
(at 5MB/sec or whatever) and go do something else for a while
("scatter") and then transfer the data at a very high rate back into the
CPU's main memory ("gather") when the request has been filled.  This
free's up a ton of CPU time as it only has to spend 1/5th the time
servicing the disk.  The disk is buffering the read in it's computer. 

In other words you could run about 5 of those fancy Micropolis disks at
one time without swamping the SCSI bus (Of course you'll be swamping
that ISA bus anyway but ...).  With some striping software you could
theoretically have 5 outstanding i/o requests, one at each drive then
gather them all up at once thereby getting 5 times the thruput.
-- 
Keith Smith          uunet!ksmith!keith            5719 Archer Rd.
Digital Designs      BBS 1-919-423-4216            Hope Mills, NC 28348-2201
Somewhere in the Styx of North Carolina ...
Newsgroups: comp.periphs.scsi,comp.sys.intel
From: steibel@algol.cs.umbc.edu (David M. Steibel)
Subject: Re: What about Local bus (Was Re: EISA vs. ISA - which is better?)
Organization: University of Maryland Baltimore Campus
Date: Fri, 11 Sep 1992 00:53:24 GMT

ajayshah@almaak.usc.edu (Ajay Shah) writes:
> To start a new thread in this conversation, what about Local bus?
[stuff deleted]

> IMHO, if I had to get a 386 box running Unix which is capable of real
> work (as distinct from my current AT bus + ms-dos machine which barely
> manages to keep up with the modem :-)), I would love to get a SCSI
> controller with a local bus interface to the CPU.  Does this cause
> software hassles?

Don't know.  It's best to make sure the vendor has tryed the software package
you're interested in.  You usually only need local bus with applications
such as CAD, and graphics programs, or multitasking/graphics intensive
operating systems.  Usually the fast SCSI only comes into consideration
for network server-type machines.

Again, standards aren't really there yet for local bus.  You would want to
ensure compatibility with your software.  You'd also probably want to
get the controllers you need when you buy the motherboard itself.
Usually, it's common to have 2 local bus slots, one with graphics card
and one with SCSI HD controller.  The rest of the slots are normal.
I think some companys might also offer network local bus cards.

> What do such motherboards cost?  I'm mostly interested in IO, not
> in fast graphics.  I only run lots of xterms :-)

They cost ALOT.  Personally, I wouldn't buy one until either
A) VESA standards start becoming enforced through mandatory tests for
   registration of both cards and motherboards by the manufactures.  (They 
   are the mainly used standard.  I might have the initials wrong)
B) The intel P5 comes out, and people use intel's local bus specification,
    if that happens.

and the price comes down a bit, etc.  Also you mentioned thinking about
a 386.  I'm not sure if 386's support local bus technology.  Mainly,
non-486s have been de-emphasized by intel, and the AMD386/40 is the
only motherboard looking good as far as 386s go.  I think its kind of
pointless getting a 40Mhz local bus.  I assume most localbus cards
operate in either 33MHz, or 50Mhz mode.  Thats just a guess though.
Maybe some person with more experience than me could fill in these kind of
details.
--
David M. Steibel;  Author of the Demacs FAQ;  Internet: steibel@cs.umbc.edu

The greatness of a nation and its moral progress can be measured by the way 
in which its animals are treated. - Mahatma Gandhi.




Newsgroups: comp.periphs.scsi,comp.sys.intel
From: steibel@venus.cs.umbc.edu (David M. Steibel)
Subject: Re: EISA vs. ISA - which is better?
Organization: University of Maryland Baltimore Campus
Date: Thu, 10 Sep 1992 19:41:13 GMT

pss1@kepler.unh.edu (Paul S Secinaro) writes:
> steibel@venus.cs.umbc.edu (David M. Steibel) writes:
>
>> I'm very confused at how you are arriving at this $700-$1000 more
>> premium.  As far as I've seen a 486/50 EISA machine only runs for
>> a few hundred dollars more than a 486/33 ISA machine.  And the
>> EISA option itself is only $100 or so more.  Perhaps you are thinking
>> about an EISA localbus which would be VERY expensive?
>
> If you look at the ads (Gateway 2000, for example), many of the EISA
> systems come packaged with large hard disks and SCSI controllers,
> whereas the ISA systems usually come with cheap IDE controllers.
> Because of this, a $1000 cost difference isn't unusual (of course, you
> are getting a much better system).

I received my prices from the Monday Business section of the Washington
Post.  They have always had the better prices in comparison to most
other vendors and have excellent quality equipment, and return policys
since I'm local to them.

The original poster already had two SCSI drives with 200+ per drive, so
he would have to take a harddrive controller into consideration, but again
the price differences between the loaded 486/50 EISA w/ SCSI and 486/ISA 
weren't too far off.  I think the average 486/50 EISA w/ SCSI was around
the $2300 range.  Also, SCSI harddrive controllers for ISA are around
$350 for an adaptec.  

I think the lower prices of motherboards are around $500 for 486/33 ISA,
$800 for 486/50 ISA, $1000 for 486/50 EISA.  Those are US dollars and I
could be wrong.  Then $50 each per floppy drive, and $100 for full tower
case.  Around $400 for 200meg HD, $100/meg RAM, and ? for video.  I
think I might have diverged a bit from the topic though.

>>  A) You can't address more than 16megs of RAM for DMA (Direct memory
>>     writing for peripherals).
>
> I think you mean "You *can* address more than 16megs of RAM for DMA"
> (unlike most ISA setups).

Oops.  I had meant to put down that ISA buses can't address..  I think MCA
(IBM's Micro Channel Architecture) has similar properties.
--
David M. Steibel;  Author of the Demacs FAQ;  Internet: steibel@cs.umbc.edu

The greatness of a nation and its moral progress can be measured by the way 
in which its animals are treated. - Mahatma Gandhi.
From: reginald.hirsch@yob.sccsi.com (Reginald Hirsch) 
Newsgroups: comp.periphs.scsi
Subject: WHICH IS BETTER: ADAPTEC
Date: 11 Sep 92 21:06:00 GMT
Distribution: world
Organization: Ye Olde Bailey BBS - Houston, TX - 713-520-1569
Reply-To: reginald.hirsch@yob.sccsi.com (Reginald Hirsch) 

TO: lampi@polari.online.com

-> Anybody willing to offer me their $.02 on their experiences with a
-> good, fast ISA SCSI controller with such peripherals on a 486 system?

  I  know this may come as a shock but I have a DTK 486/33 and
had originally (still do on my system) two esdi's under Ultrastor
4 meg cahced controller.First tried a always 2000 as co resident SCSI
could get the SCSI's HD's up but no success with the NEC  CD ROM.
Went to ultrastor's sccsi but still no success when I added the Wangtek
Dat tape drive ( ok for the scsi's and cd rom).Finally you quesssed
it the Adaptec 1542 and now co resident are two sccsi's hd's (1.6gigs))
NEC CD ROM and Wangtek DAT tape all are working.The long and short
is that between getting the right hardware the aspi and the right
taape software not to mention the scssi software (mscdex,scsi) for
the cd rom is that only adaptec supported my multi platform.
PS all of this craziness is under DV/X running a two node BBS
with 57600 open on one node for a multitech modem and 38400
for a Hayes 14400.
 Hope this helps.
From: merlin@neuro.usc.edu (merlin)
Newsgroups: comp.periphs.scsi
Subject: SCSI internal drive inline terminator -- small volume source
Date: 13 Sep 1992 00:21:45 -0700
Organization: University of Southern California, Los Angeles, CA
NNTP-Posting-Host: neuro.usc.edu

Where does one obtain small quantities (one to ten) of the SCSI internal
drive inline terminator for 50 pin flat connector cables?  I have only a
sample of "TYPE: S.E.C.  D/C: 9034  P/N: IBM#64F4774" with no vendor id.

My local PC repair people as well as local electronics vendors say they
have never seen an internal inlinec SCSI terminator -- only the external
variety.  A source & price for this component would be really helpfull.

Thanks, AJ

------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Alexander-James Annala
Principal Investigator
Neuroscience Image Analysis Network
HEDCO Neuroscience Building, Fifth Floor
University of Southern California
University Park
Los Angeles, CA 90089-2520
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: nr3m+@pitt.edu (Matthew A Henry)
Newsgroups: comp.periphs.scsi
Subject: HP SCSI
Date: 11 Sep 92 16:20:57 GMT
Distribution: na
Organization: University of Pittsburgh


Hi,

I'm looking for the document "HP Common SCSI Interface Specification" as
referenced in the /etc/disktab file on HP-UX machines.  Everyone I have
talked to at HP seems to know nothing about this document.  Anyone know
where I might find this information?

Thanks,

Matt Henry
nr3m@unix.cis.pitt.edu
From: sjb5@ns1.cc.lehigh.edu (STACY JOHN BEHRENS)
Newsgroups: comp.periphs.scsi
Subject: Re: EISA vs. ISA - which is better?
Date: 12 Sep 92 03:23:40 GMT
Organization: Lehigh University

In article <1992Sep11.190452.12052@Informatik.TU-Muenchen.DE>, rommel@Informatik
.TU-Muenchen.DE (Kai-Uwe Rommel) writes:
>In article <1992Sep11.135900.11901@crd.ge.com> davidsen@crd.ge.com (bill davids
en) writes:
>>  EISA is a reasonable thing to use on servers, either file or compute,
>>including any multiuser system. After looking at the performance gains I
>>decided that it didn't make sense for me to put money into that, vs
>>other features like a tape drive to back up large disks, better video,
>>etc.
>>
>>  For a single user system the gain from EISA is "measureable but not
>>perceptable." An EISA system will not *feel* faster than ISA under
>>single user loads, and that's the major reason I don't feel they're cost
>>effective.

They don't feel significantly faster, but they may very well become cost
effective soon.  OPTI supposidly is releasing a new EISA chip set which is
much smaller and cheaper than Intel's.  (About a quarter the price)  This
should result in much of the price premium disappearing.

>

Stacy John Behrens
*===)-------------
From: pjh@mccc.edu (Pete Holsberg)
Newsgroups: comp.periphs.scsi
Subject: Re: Low Voltage on Pin 38
Date: 15 Sep 92 14:40:06 GMT
Organization: The College On The Other Side Of Route One

In article <1992Sep14.215850.25008@mccc.edu> pjh@mccc.edu (Pete Holsberg) writes:
=In article <1992Sep13.000854.11526@mccc.edu> pjh@mccc.edu (P. J. Holsberg) writes:
==I'm trying to connect up a device that's powered from a SCSI device --
==WangDAT 1300 to be precise -- and it gets its power from pin 38,
==termpwr. Unfortunately, the device needs 5V and the 1300 is putting out
==only about 2V.
==
==Is there anything I can do about this? Is pin 38 just a voltage source
==or is it under control of something? I ask this because if it were just
==a voltage source, I'd have no qualms about disconnecting it from the
==cable to the connector and run 5V from the power supply of the WangDAT's
==case. However, as I'm sure you can tell, I know zilch about SCSI. :-)
=
=Solved! The WangDAT has a jumper that must be connected to get the 5V
=to TermPwr.
=
=Now, if I could get the Trantor driver to do its thing...

Solved, too! It seems that the Trantor MiniSCSI adapter does not see the
WangDAT as a disk device, but requires external tape software in place
of their drivers. Of course, the Trantor manual doesn't mention that! ;-)
Newsgroups: comp.periphs.scsi
From: Neklan_Brozensky@mindlink.bc.ca (Neklan Brozensky)
Newsgroups: comp.periphs.scsi
Subject: connecting scsi-2 drive to 3B2 scsi-1 controller
Date: 11 Sep 92 08:17:01 GMT
Organization: MIND LINK! - British Columbia, Canada
Distribution: world

I'm thinking of adding a 676MB Micropolis Drive to an AT&T 3B2/500. The Drive
is really a scsi II drive, and the scsi controller on the computer is scsi I
(as best I can determine).

Would such a combination work (given the older controller)? If anyone has done
something similar with a 3B2, I'd be interested in hearing how it went and if
there are any 'tricks', 'traps', or 'gotchas' to look out for.

I'm taking into account all the information in the "SCSI devices work on SCSI-2
port?" thread, but haven't actually seen a flat out confirmation / denial of
putting a mix of drives on a scsi-1 controller.


Thanks in Advance,

Neklan

P.S. I have read the 3B2 faq but the edition I obtained seemed to be written
before the advent of scsi II.

Newsgroups: comp.periphs.scsi,comp.periphs
From: chrism@col.hp.com (Chris Magnuson)
Subject: SCSI Tool Software For Sale
Date: Mon, 7 Sep 1992 19:27:10 GMT
Organization: HP Colorado Springs Division

  I would like to sell my copy of SCSI Tool 1.3 by Arborworks/Northern Telecom
as I don't need it any longer.  The master disk/manual are in good condition.
SCSI Tool sells for $175 from APDA and others...I would like $100 or best offer.
I just got the upgrade to 1.3 (it is still shrink wrapped with the manual).

  This program runs on the Mac (system 7 compatible) and has scripting macro
capability.  It allows you to manipulate the SCSI hardware directly and 
interactively without writing a bunch of software.

Chris Magnuson
chrism@col.hp.com
Software Development Engineer
Hewlett-Packard Company
W 719 590 2963
H 719 481 9271
Newsgroups: comp.periphs.scsi
From: Winfried.Krueger@arbi.informatik.uni-oldenburg.de (Winfried.Krueger)
Subject: Re: recomendations for scsi tape backup
Organization: University of Oldenburg, Germany
Date: Fri, 11 Sep 1992 06:21:06 GMT
Keywords: tape backup

zeglins@ccu.umanitoba.ca (Gordon W. Zeglinski) writes:

>Thanks to all those who responded to my HOT drives post.

>I've been thinking of getting a scsi tape backup unit for my PC.
>The unit should be able to work with the 1542b and 1740 scsi host adapters
>by adaptec and OS/2.

>I've found a swift unit which is attactively priced.  Does anyone have
>any opinions about this unit ?  Any recomendations for other brands?
>The unit should be in the 250 to 400 Mg range, the swift is 250 Mg.

>Thanks

>Gord.

>-- 
>Gord.


I have a Sankyo SE150 (150/250 MB) and it really works fine. 
 
winnie.
Newsgroups: comp.periphs.scsi
From: Andrew.Jackson@bbs.oit.unc.edu (Andrew Jackson)
Subject: Adaptec 1522 used to determine non-512 byte sector sizes...how ?
Keywords: sector scsi Adpatec
Organization: Extended Bulletin Board Service
Date: Thu, 10 Sep 1992 15:18:34 GMT



--
   The opinions expressed are not necessarily those of the University of
     North Carolina at Chapel Hill, the Campus Office for Information
        Technology, or the Experimental Bulletin Board Service.
           internet:  bbs.oit.unc.edu or 152.2.22.80
Xref: sparky comp.periphs.scsi:4431 bit.listserv.novell:13840
Organization: University of Illinois at Chicago
Date: Wednesday, 9 Sep 1992 23:41:21 CDT
From: Rich Chong <U41602@uicvm.uic.edu>
Newsgroups: comp.periphs.scsi,bit.listserv.novell
Subject: What are good DAT drives?

Has anyone seen any articles on comparisons between different
SCSI-2 capable DAT drives? How about general preferences?
One that caught my eye is the 8GB WANGDAT 3200 for $1700. any good?
Is there any advantage in running the DAT right off of a Netware3.11
server? sounds like it costs more (for the NLMs), uses up server
resources, and has more chance in crashing the server.
How bad is a 10mbit Ethernet bottleneck?
Thanks for all your pointers!   rc
Newsgroups: comp.periphs.scsi,comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware
From: sacg@ghost.dsi.unimi.it (giuseppe sacco)
Subject: TRANTOR SCSI Adapter info-request
Keywords: SCSI trantor
Organization: Computer Science Dep. - Milan University
Date: Tue, 15 Sep 1992 15:20:43 GMT
Summary: Need info on Trantor parallel to SCSI adaptor

Hello everynetters,

I'm going to buy a CD-ROM reader for my Mac CX, and would be pleased to use it also with my Toshiba T2000SX. I read adertising about parallel to SCSI adaptor, made by Trantor, but no test about compatibility with Mac SCSI devices or any kind of trouble could happen.
Can anyone of you answer any of the following questions:

	1) does it works fine with Mac SCSI devices?
	2) is completely SCSI compliant ( until 7 device-per-chain )?
	3) would be possible to chain my Mac too, to access devices with both
		computers?
	4) is sold with the proper SCSI DOS driver or I'll have to buy from
		third parts?
	5) are there other adaptor other than Trantor's one?
	6) any other info about it/them is apreciated.



	Pleas send E-MAIL to:	sacg@pluto.sm.dsi.unimi.it

	If asked I'll summarize the answers for the group.

		Thank you very much in advance!

Newsgroups: comp.periphs.scsi
From: hampton@tasman.cc.utas.edu.au (Michael Neil Hampton)
Subject: WORM drive usage under Dos 5
Summary: Cant get it to go under dos 5, help...........!
Keywords: WORM dos 5
Organization: University of Tasmania, Australia.
Date: Tue, 15 Sep 1992 02:21:53 GMT

The continuing saga of trying to get an olivetti OD810 WORM drive to run
under DOS 5

This device works perfectly under Dos 3.3 and DOS 3.3 ONLY !!!!!!

All attempts to rectify this problem including upgrading of Future Domain
device drivers and ROM chips have proved fruitless.

I need as much help as I can get, including tricking DOS 3.3 to recognise
partitions greater than 32meg, I would also be prepared to investigate the
inner workings of the above mentioned WORM drive, however navigating and
rearranging internal componentry without docs is foolish, does anybody
know the wherabouts of any such documentation?

Thanks in advance, all respondants replied to...

Mh.


--
     Life would be so much simpler, ... 
                    with access to the source code....

     hampton@tasman.cc.utas.edu.au
Newsgroups: comp.periphs.scsi
From: sck@watson.ibm.com (Scott C. Kennedy)
Subject: Re: ST1096N
Date: Thu, 10 Sep 1992 22:20:13 GMT
Distribution: na
Disclaimer: This posting represents the poster's views, not necessarily those of IBM
Organization: IBM T. J. Watson Research Center
Keywords: Jumperbelegung

In article <bkappler.716140241@lilly>, bkappler@lilly.gris.informatik.uni-tuebingen.de (Bernhard Kappler) writes:
|> Hilfe!!!
|> 
|> Wer kennt die Jumperbelegung fuer die Seagate Festplatte ST1096N???
|> 
|> Die 3 Jumper fuer die SCSI ID sind klar, aber die 2 anderen Jumper? 
[English mode on]

The two other jumpers are most likely for SCSI Bus Parity Checking  and the 
Spinup Delay Option or maybe the Start Command Option 

The Spinup Delay Option allows the drive to either spin up now or (SCSI-ID * 10)
seconds from now.

The Start Command Option will delay spinup until START UNIT is sent to the 
drive (most Amigas/Macs/PCs don't do this)

Tschuss...
-- 
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Scott C. Kennedy (sck@watson.ibm.com)  | This post does not reflect the intent 
Distributed High Performance Computing | or actions of my employer, and their 
IBM Thomas J. Watson Research Facility | actions don't reflect mine either.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I had this dream the other night. I went to work one day, and nobody 
remembered who I was. So, I decided to take the day off. - 2nu
From: x03@sun0.urz.uni-heidelberg.de (A. Stegmeier)
Newsgroups: comp.periphs.scsi
Subject: Quantum 1GB HDD experiences?
Date: 14 Sep 92 15:02:33 GMT
Article-I.D.: sun0.1992Sep14.150233.11079
Organization: University of Heidelberg (Germany)

The subject says almost everything.
Has anybody had the chance to play with the new 1GB 3,5" HDD from Quantum.

The specs I know are: 	1GB formatted, 10ms, Fast-SCSI II, 512 kB cache and
			5 years warranty. ( and an aggressive price 8-) )

The questions are:	-how fast does it spin 3600/4400 or 5400 rpm
			-how much heads does it have
			-is it dedicated servo
			-how fast is it in real apps, compared e.g.
			with Fujitsu M2624SA or 2694
			-does it work with Adaptec hosts and SUN Sparcs
			-is it good idea to wait for the next firmware release
			-is it really selling, rumours said third week next
			year would be the first availability ( in Germanny )


Achim Stegmeier                    EARN: X03@DHDURZ1
Unirechenzentrum Heidelberg        E-Mail: x03@sun0.urz.uni-heidelberg.de
From: jmatrow@donald.WichitaKS.NCR.COM (John Matrow)
Newsgroups: comp.periphs.scsi
Subject: Re: NCR 53C720
Date: 15 Sep 92 13:03:57 GMT
Reply-To: jmatrow@donald.WichitaKS.NCR.COM (John Matrow)
Organization: NCR Corporation Wichita, KS

In article <1992Sep10.194903.15528@ryn.mro4.dec.com> uyeno@meetng.enet.dec.com (Alice Uyeno) writes:
>I am having a hard time getting a hold of anyone from NCR.  Maybe you can help.  I have heard that there is an updated errata sheet for the NCR 53C720.  How can I get my hands on it?  Also, what's the update on the errata sheet that came out early Jan/Feb. 1992.  

Try Eric Paulsen, C720 Applications Engineer, Colorado Springs, CO
719-596-5795, Ext. 204

-- 
John Matrow   Systems Integration, NCR Peripheral Products Division
 NCR:654-8851 <John.Matrow@WichitaKS.NCR.COM>
(316)636-8851 <uunet!ncrlnk!ncrwic!john.matrow>
 FAX:636-8889 "DISK ARRAYS R US"
Newsgroups: comp.periphs.scsi
From: Andrew.Jackson@bbs.oit.unc.edu (Andrew Jackson)
Subject: Adaptec 1522 & Always IN-2000 sector size determination...
Keywords: sector size
Organization: Extended Bulletin Board Service
Date: Thu, 10 Sep 1992 06:44:59 GMT




--
   The opinions expressed are not necessarily those of the University of
     North Carolina at Chapel Hill, the Campus Office for Information
        Technology, or the Experimental Bulletin Board Service.
           internet:  bbs.oit.unc.edu or 152.2.22.80
Newsgroups: comp.periphs.scsi,comp.periphs,comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware