HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: fm3@irz211.inf.tu-dresden.de (Frank Mehnert)
Newsgroups: comp.os.os2.misc
Subject: RE: 1024x768 interlaced on OS/2 2.0
Date: 21 Jan 1993 10:09:36 GMT
Organization: Dept. of Computer Science, Technical University of Dresden, Germany
Distribution: world
Reply-To: fm3@irz211.inf.tu-dresden.de (Frank Mehnert)
NNTP-Posting-Host: irz211.inf.tu-dresden.de


Article 900 of comp.os.os2.misc:
Newsgroups: comp.os.os2.misc
From: sheldon@iastate.edu (Steve Sheldon)
Subject: Re: ET4000 1024x768 interlaced?
Organization: Iowa State University, Ames IA
Date: Wed, 6 Jan 93 21:25:38 MET

In <1993Jan6.172853.9944@ugle.unit.no> tmolbach@Lise.Unit.NO (Thomas M|lbach) writes:

>I have installed the GA+CSD with the new et4000 drivers. The 640x480 + 800x600
>drivers looked OK, but the 1024x768 drivers looked interlaced to me. The monitor
>(15") and the graphics card (2theMAX) should manage 1024x768 non-interlaced. Does
>anyone know if it's possible to get 1024x768 non-interlaced with the CSD-drivers?
>And what should I do?


If you have an utility for DOS, which makes your card running on 70Hz, try this:

Open an DOS FULLSCREEN.
Load the DOS utility which switch the card into 70Hz.
Type SVGA ON.
Exit DOS session.
Reboot your computer.

I've done this with SIGMA LEGEND II on 800x600x256 (1024x768 don't runs),
and my card is running with 70Hz. But one bug is, that the OS/2 Fullscreen
runs not good. But this mode I don't need.

Frank.
From: ct@icarus.lis.pitt.edu (fac chris tomer)
Newsgroups: comp.os.os2.misc
Subject: Procomm Plus for Windows
Date: 25 Jan 93 23:15:36 GMT
Organization: University of Pittsburgh

I am interested in finding out how ProComm Plus for Windows performs
running on top of OS/2, version 2.0 or 2.1 beta. I would appreciate
information and/or advice.

          **********************************************************
          *  Chris Tomer                                           *
          *  School of Library and Information Science             *
          *  University of Pittsburgh                              *
          *  135 North Bellefield                                  *
          *  Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania 15260                        *
          *  Telephone:  412-624-9448                              *
          *  FAX:        412-624-5231                              *
          *  E-mail addresses:   ct@lis.pitt.edu                   *
          *                      ct@coltrane.lis.pitt.edu          *
          **********************************************************
From: dic5340@hertz.njit.edu (David Charlap)
Newsgroups: comp.os.os2.misc
Subject: Re: Is OS/2 a dead end?
Keywords: So quoth Bill Gates
Date: 21 Jan 93 15:36:26 GMT
Organization: New Jersey Institute of Technology, Newark, N.J.

In article <1993Jan20.163847.26969@cbfsb.cb.att.com> feg@cbnewsb.cb.att.com (forrest.e.gehrke) writes:
>PC Week for January 18th has an interview with Bill Gates.
>I quote the relevant item:
>
>PC Week: Your feeling is that OS/2 is a dead-end platform?
>
>Gates: It's certainly a dead end.  That's indisputable.
>Nobody would dispute that it's a dead end.

And they're spending all that money on lawyers, trying to force IBM to
pay $30+ per copy of OS/2 2.1.  Why?  It's already cost more in legal
fees than they could hope to recoup from a "dead end" product.
-- 
  |)  David Charlap          | .signature confiscated by FBI due to
 /|_  dic5340@hertz.njit.edu | an ongoing investigation into the
((|,)                        | source of these .signature virusses
 ~|~
Newsgroups: comp.os.os2.misc
From: sip1@ellis.uchicago.edu (Timothy F. Sipples)
Subject: Re: OS/2 2.0 and Math Coprocessor
Reply-To: sip1@midway.uchicago.edu
Organization: Dept. of Econ., Univ. of Chicago
Date: Tue, 26 Jan 1993 18:35:06 GMT

In article <SCANNON.53.728064267@novell.com> SCANNON@novell.com (Steve Cannon) writes:
>Does OS/2 2.0 take advantage of the fact that a math coprocessor is 
>installed on systems running a CPU < 486?
>If not, I'd like to see IBM make a version available that does.  Unless I'm 
>way off base, it seems like a simple recompile of the code with the proper 
>switches set could do the trick.

OS/2 itself does not use the math coprocessor, nor would it benefit
from it.  Applications, however, can make use of it.

-- 
Timothy F. Sipples      | READ the OS/2 FAQ List 2.0i, available from
sip1@ellis.uchicago.edu | 128.123.35.151, anonymous ftp, in /pub/os2/all/info
Dept. of Econ., Univ.   | /faq, or from LISTSERV@BLEKUL11.BITNET (send "HELP")
of Chicago, 60637       | [Post to ONE newsgroup only AFTER reading the List.]
From: Randy.Holt@f347.n109.z1.fidonet.org (Randy Holt)
Sender: Uucp@blkcat.UUCP
Newsgroups: comp.os.os2.misc
Subject: To XGA-2 or not
Date: Fri, 22 Jan 1993 23:17:46 -0500

I am looking forward to seeing your results.  If possible, please post
information regarding the speed with 16 bit color.

Newsgroups: comp.os.os2.misc
From: migieger@delos.stgt.sub.org (Michael Giegerich)
Subject: No way to install OS/2 w/o Bootmanager together with DOS & 386BSD?
Date: Wed, 20 Jan 1993 19:36:41 GMT
Organization: Delos Stuttgart, Germany

Hello everybody,

Any answers to the following problem?
On a system with one harddisk and already 2 partitions with
DOS and 386BSD on it: is it possible to install OS/2 without
the bootmanger option and without using dualboot?

The install programm doesn't let me mark the free partition
as installable...

Thanks,
Michael
 
-- 
------------------------------+------------------------------
Michael Giegerich             | migieger@delos.stgt.sub.org
------------------------------+------------------------------
Newsgroups: comp.os.os2.misc
From: linstee@dutecaj.et.tudelft.nl (Erik van Linstee)
Subject: (old) icons lost association with icon editor
Organization: Delft University of Technology, Dept. of Electrical Engineering
Date: Sat, 23 Jan 1993 11:48:16 GMT

It appears that my icons lost their association with the icon editor
since I unarj'ed them. I realise that makes them loose the EA's
but I rather thought the associoation was kept by the system.
Anyone know of an easy way to reassociate them in one go?

Erik
From: ltlowe@bnr.ca (Todd Lowe)
Newsgroups: comp.os.os2.misc
Subject: ATI svga winos2 question
Date: 23 Jan 93 00:22:38 GMT
Organization: Bell-Northern Research, Ottawa, Canada
X-Newsreader: Tin 1.1 PL5


I just got OS2 2.1 installed today, and am very pleased with the ATI wonder
1024x768x256 driver except for two things:
   
   -  The palette manager doesn't seem to work.  If I open something 
      With lots of colors in either OS/2 or Seemless Windows, then 
      the palette changes, but not to the picture opened, and then 
      doesn't change back, so my 256 color app has the wrong colors
      and my WPS has the wrong colors.

   -  I am pleased with being able to have seemless windows in this 
      resolution, but I don't like the font size for the windows apps.
      It looks like a standard Windows 3.1 driver with Large Fonts
      instead of Small Fonts.  I prefer the small fonts, and even have
      at least one application that won't work with the large ones.

Any suggestions ?

-Todd Lowe
Newsgroups: comp.os.os2.misc
From: morrison@ee.ualberta.ca (Robert Morrison)
Subject: Redbooks available electronically?
Organization: University Of Alberta, Edmonton Canada
Date: Sun, 24 Jan 1993 23:09:40 GMT

Greetings,

	Is the text of the redbooks available in a non-pulp form?  I have
poked around a bit on ftp-os2 without luck...found source code from them.  
This leads me to suspect that this sort of distribution is not legal.  Is 
that the case?

Robert Morrison
morrison@bode.ee.ualberta.ca

Newsgroups: comp.os.os2.misc
From: p_quinn@pavo.concordia.ca (QUINN, PAUL)
Subject: HELP WITH 2.1B
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41    
Organization: Concordia University
Date: Sat, 23 Jan 1993 05:38:00 GMT

	I went to install the 2.1b tonight.  I inseted the install disk
and waited.  When it prompted me to insert disk 1, I did so.  I waited
and waited.  The disk light stayed on but nothing happenned.  My screen
stayed on the message saying "ibm internal ..."
	After several minutes I get a message saying:
TRAP 0003	ERRCD=0000	ERACC=*****

Some more this and

error occured at ##0160:FFFF60967=oood:9967
60000,9084.

Can someone please help me?

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Paul Quinn			p_quinn@pavo.concordia.ca

				Computer Science: System Architecture
				Concordia University, MTL, Qc
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Newsgroups: comp.os.os2.misc
Subject: Re: Anything like SOFTMAC available?
From: dlfrost@miavx1.acs.muohio.edu
Date: 26 Jan 93 10:51:48 -0500
Organization: Miami University Academic Computer Service"

In article <enk2.91.728024888@po.cwru.edu>, enk2@po.cwru.edu (Erik Kovach) writes:
> In article <93025.133917DGRAHAM@HARPERVM.BITNET> <DGRAHAM@HARPERVM.BITNET> writes:
>>Is there anything available for OS/2 that will do MacIntosh emulation. Does
>>anyone know if this is even possible. And if not, at least a utility to read
>>in MacIntosh files. I tried the macutils found on hobbes, but that seemed to
>>be for reading Mac files into Unix, and not OS/2. Thanks for any info.
> 
> I REALLY REALLY REALLY REALLY REALLY doubt that there is a Macintosh emulator
> for two reasons: hardware and the Macintosh copyrights that they have been,
> well, anal about.  Macintosh-formatted disks, I am pretty sure, cannot be
> read by PC's (although if you have a Mac, PC disks can be read/altered, so
> use a Mac to convert a file to FAT file system and THEN use the Macutils
> program).


  This a shareware program that read/write Mac high density disk only. It does
work under a dos window.  I don't remember what sight I ftp from but if you
email I can send it to you. 


						Dennis
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Real Programmers don't bring brown bag lunches.  If the vending machine sells 
it, they eat it.  If the vending machine doesn't sell it, they don't eat it. 
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
dlfrost@miavx1.acs.muohio.edu                  df0dsanu@miamiu.acs.muohio.edu 


Newsgroups: comp.os.os2.misc
From: jbradsha@mentor.cc.purdue.edu (Jonathan Bradshaw)
Subject: Re: MMPM/2 and SB
Organization: Purdue University Computing Center
Date: Mon, 25 Jan 1993 06:37:19 GMT

>: Well I've got a soundblaster 2.0 with version 2.01 DSP, and I can't get
>: MMPM/2 to work either. I don't see any error messages (or anything) when (if)
>: the device driver loads, but when I try to play a .WAV file, I get the 
>: message that 'Digitised Sound channel could not be opened, contact IBM etc..'
>
>Problem solved !!
>
>I reinstalled and selected IBM M-audio as well as Soundblaster. ( I don't
>have an M-audio card, though )
>
>Seemed to fix the problem, anyway.
>
>Paul.

Same here. Although I'm running the PAS beta drivers. When I didn't install
the M-AUDIO I could not play WAV files. Dunno why its needed but it is.

Now, ANYONE HAVE an MMPM/2 MOD PLAYER?

I saw the SB one but I need MMPM/2. I have the STR32 for Unix and PAS, and
I know the SB version is based on it so has anyone hacked it for generic
MMPM support?

That would MAKE MY DAY! <grin>

-- 
 Jonathan Bradshaw | jonathan@nova.decio.nd.edu | PGP Key Available On Request
  Ask me about the Purdue Os/2 Users Club | Prodigy: XMSN02B | Os/2 2.1b User
  WNDU-AM/FM/TV South Bend, IN | Disclaimer "My opinions are not my employers"
  I'm Losin' myself with Body, Mind and Soul with Deborah Ann Gibson in 1993!
From: dic5340@hertz.njit.edu (David Charlap)
Newsgroups: comp.os.os2.misc
Subject: Re: MMPM/2 and PC speaker
Date: 21 Jan 93 20:12:16 GMT
Organization: New Jersey Institute of Technology, Newark, N.J.

In article <1993Jan17.005410.1297@yvax.byu.edu> hayesb@yvax.byu.edu writes:
>I just installed the 2.1b and don't have any drivers for the PC speaker.  I
>don't have any type of sound card and was wondering if sounds can be played
>through the PC speaker in both MMPM/2 and a WIN-OS2 session.  Any help would be
>appreciated.

There exists the DosBeep() function for simple beeping type sounds.  You
can get a useable range of sounds with that (ask any Turbo Pascal 3.x
programmer!).  As for digitized sound, the timings involved are too
critical for any multitasker to handle properly.

Just in case you don't have documentation, this call is simple:

DosBeep(note, duration);

Where note is the frequency in Hz, and duration is the length of the
note in milliseconds.  So

	DosBeep( 500,100); 
	DosBeep(1000,300);

makes a nice little "ta-da!" type sound effect.  Etc.
-- 
  |)  David Charlap          | .signature confiscated by FBI due to
 /|_  dic5340@hertz.njit.edu | an ongoing investigation into the
((|,)                        | source of these .signature virusses
 ~|~
From: tp923021@jarrah.canberra.edu.au (ben elliston)
Sender: gateway@f262.n620.z3.fidonet.org
Newsgroups: comp.os.os2.misc
Subject: Install hassles
Date: Sun, 24 Jan 1993 01:45:00

I replaced the .ADD file with the ST506 replacement from the 2.0 GA and re-installed OS/2 2.1b.

This time (two different installations), I got lockups after installing disk 19.

Any ideas, please?
From: chasi@netcom.com (Charles Inman)
Newsgroups: comp.os.os2.misc
Subject: Re: converting GIF ---===> BMP
Date: 25 Jan 93 16:40:44 GMT
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services  (408 241-9760 guest)

From article <enk2.86.727972100@po.cwru.edu>, by enk2@po.cwru.edu (Erik Kovach):
> In article <C1Ev52.Fn1@panix.com> os2man@panix.com (Larry Salomon Jr.) writes:
>>Get the Image Toolkit and Image Browser from the CD-ROM.  The Image Toolkit
>>can load GIFs (plus BMPS, etc.) and can save in BMP format.  Load the image
>>into IBROW and save as a BMP with the attributes you like.
> 
> Another good one, if you're a windows user, is WINGif 1.4, available from
> (I think) wuarchive.wustl.edu.

I'm not a windows user, but I still use this application.  It runs just fine
under OS/2.  Bot full screen and seamless.  On 16 color devices when loading
256 color gifs you will get either the quick dither or closest match, however
when you save the file to a different format, the palette will be preserved
unless of course you tell WinGif to actually dither it for you.

Chas
-- 


Charles Inman
chasi@netcom.com

"If the phone doesn't ring, it's me"
		- Jimmy Buffett
Newsgroups: comp.os.os2.misc
From: tom@dirac.physik.uni-konstanz.de (Thomas Kirchhoff)
Subject: (S3) Actix Graphics Engine 32b working with OS/2 ?
Organization: Physics Department Uni Konstanz
Date: Thu, 28 Jan 1993 18:13:26 GMT

Is this Card supported or will it be supported somewere in the near future ?
It's chipset is the S386C801.
I'm asking because it appears to be the one with the most xstones under Linux,
but I would of course need an OS2/driver too.
Does the recently described method of patching the f1280 driver work too ?
Thanks for your infos !!!

thomas
tom@dirac.physik.uni-konstanz.de
From: nummi@me.utoronto.ca (Matti Nummi)
Newsgroups: comp.os.os2.misc
Subject: .boo Reader/Viewer?
Date: 24 Jan 93 21:28:05 GMT
Article-I.D.: me.C1DnMt.5wu
Distribution: comp
Organization: UofT Mechanical Engineering





  I have a bunch of files with the .boo extension which I believe means that
they are in Book Manager format.  What do I need to view/read these files
and where can I get such a tool?
		Thanks,

Matti Nummi            Department of Mechanical Engineering
nummi@me.toronto.edu   University of Toronto
nummi@me.utoronto.ca

-- 
Matti Nummi            Department of Mechanical Engineering
nummi@me.toronto.edu   University of Toronto
nummi@me.utoronto.ca
From: shyguy@ocf.berkeley.edu (David S. Shy)
Newsgroups: comp.os.os2.misc
Subject: Re: Is hobbes logged on archie? (was Re: Problems with SIO_034)
Date: 24 Jan 1993 07:53:18 GMT
Organization: U.C. Berkeley Open Computing Facility
NNTP-Posting-Host: planecrash.berkeley.edu

In article <1993Jan24.011230.17726@venus.ic.cmc.ca> jcalvert@scorpio.ic.cmc.ca (John Calvert) writes:
>In article <4053@isgtec.isgtec.com> ted@isgtec.com (Ted Richards) writes:
>>Vladek Komorek (vladek@vkom.fidonet.org) wrote:
>>: SIO/VSIO 0.34 comm. driver will solve your problem.
>
>I went on an oddessy looking for sio034 and discovered that no version
>of this wonderful driver is listed with archie rutgers. I wonder if 
>hobbes is being properly logged by archie sites.
>

I believe (although i could be wrong) the name is actually sio011.zip
This is the  com.sys and the vcom.sys by Raymond Gwinn right?  

Now I have a question for all those advocates of this driver.
Just exactly what does it do?  At first I thought it woudl speed
up serial input and output like i read in a post on the net;
however, during download, there was absolutley no difference
in speed after i applied these new drivers.  the document which
came w/ the driver didn't really say which one of hte UART
things it was suppose to work best under.... can anyone shine
some light on me ;)  thanks.

david shy
shyguy@ocf.berkeley.edu

-- 
=============================================================================
| David Shy                  |    We are OS/2,  Dos is irrelevant,          | 
| shyguy@ocf.berkeley.edu    |    Windows is useless, System 7 is futile,   |
| shyguy@uclink.berkeley.edu |    UNIX is... well... unimportant....        |
=============================================================================
Newsgroups: comp.os.os2.misc
From: baloo@nx01.mik.uky.edu (kevin s coupal)
Subject: Need help with os/2 lockups.  Tired of crashing
Organization: University Of Kentucky, Dept. of Math Sciences
Date: Thu, 21 Jan 1993 15:09:22 GMT



IS there anyone out there I could possibly send all my config.sys autoexec.bat
and other system files to, to see if they can see anything i may have set up
wrong?  I have no clue what is causing so many problems.  I have problems 
with so many apps, both dos and os/2 apps.  Like problems with a tape drive
back up, to a dos session cshow.exe that i can't use my arrow keys!  I'm lost.
Can anyone help?
Kevin Coupal
baloo@mik.uky.edu

Newsgroups: comp.os.os2.misc
From: linstee@dutecaj.et.tudelft.nl (Erik van Linstee)
Subject: What I really, really, really want in OS/2
Organization: Delft University of Technology, Dept. of Electrical Engineering
Date: Sat, 23 Jan 1993 11:16:04 GMT


Well, there are a lot of things of course, but most notably I want
the install procedure to be able to have paths specified, especially
for where to put the applets and WINOS2.
Is there anyone else who finds this a good thing? I do, because I
have reserved (as many) a special partition for the system, and
I do want it to be system only. Mainly because it is not likely to
grow or shrink regularly. Having WINOS2 on that partition is a pain
because it isn't at all static. Adding TT fonts makes it grow, adding
programs makes it grow, programs make it grow, etc.
Of course I can install it and then move it, but that would require
the space to be their in the first place, when I really want to keep
it down as much as possible.
So, anyone with me on this?

Erik
-- 
Erik van Linstee   |   Delft University of Technology   |   I'll be back ... 
----
   We are god, 'cause only we can create the idea of his existence
   in our holy brains...  (Yello)
From: dic5340@hertz.njit.edu (David Charlap)
Newsgroups: comp.os.os2.misc
Subject: Re: MVS on Workstations? (Was "economics of os2 for ibm")
Date: 22 Jan 93 14:43:10 GMT
Organization: New Jersey Institute of Technology, Newark, N.J.

In article <8492@lib.tmc.edu> jmaynard@oac.hsc.uth.tmc.edu (Jay Maynard) writes:
>For those of you out there screaming "Why, for God'd sake??!", think of a
>personal development environment for mainframe apps where a programmer could
>do stupid things like stomp on CICS internals and not bring the whole shooting
>match down for hundreds of people...

Well, on PC's and on most workstations I see, there is rarely more
than one user per machine.  So as long as you don't stomp on the
network server, it might as well be the same.
-- 
  |)  David Charlap          | .signature confiscated by FBI due to
 /|_  dic5340@hertz.njit.edu | an ongoing investigation into the
((|,)                        | source of these .signature virusses
 ~|~
Newsgroups: comp.os.os2.misc
From: amcandel@eos.ncsu.edu (Alex Candelaria)
Subject: Re: PAS-16 under OS/2
Organization: North Carolina State University, Project Eos
Date: Sun, 24 Jan 1993 18:47:01 GMT


	Well, If I remember correctly, I just read the readme file that came
with the mvos2 drivers and it states that the drivers will only work with
OS/2 V2.1 BETA.  Also, Further into the document it mentions that the
PAS16 windows programs and TBPRO will not work under OS/2 V2.1 BETA in it's
current state because of something like, unable to do a low-level initialize
of the DMA.  IBM has been notified of the problem and will porbably be fixed
in the final release of OS/2 V2.1 
			
					Alex
					amcandel
					candel in the morning
					Hoping someday, he too can use his
					 PAS16 under OS/2...
From: antony@werple.apana.org.au (Antony Suter)
Newsgroups: comp.os.os2.misc
Subject: Diamond Stealth (generic S3) drivers!!
Date: 28 Jan 1993 15:17:31 +1100
Organization: werple public-access unix, Melbourne
NNTP-Posting-Host: werple.apana.org.au

Do you have a video card based on the S3 chipset?
Do you not have drivers for this card that utilise the S3 fully?
I have an answer. For fast getting on with it goto >HERE<.

I bought a Diamond Speedstar VRAM yesterday (yeah i know theyve been
around for a while and new S3 chips are coming out, but i dont need
something that will display something before i even knew i was going
to tell it to!) and downloaded the f1280 drivers because thats what the
FAQ hanted at. Rats! They didnt work. They now do. I have found that the
drivers seem to use a set of frequencys that im not used to, and my cheap
monitor needs 15 minutes to warm up before it will correctly sync to the
800x600 freqs. I guess that this is specific to me, and that more recent,
or more expensive monitors will work correctly.

I could upload the patched drivers somewhere, but im not sure about the
legalities of that or if ill get sued or if the sky will...

Let me know how well the drivers work on YOUR S3 card. Theyll work for
me until beter generic drivers for the S3 come from somewhere.

For usable and FAST display on your S3...

>HERE<

1. Download the file F1280.ZIP from ftp-os2.
2. Uncompress the file (in its own cute directory somewhere).
3. Apply the patch file as described BELOW.
4. Follow the normal installation instructions as found in the archive.
nb. its a good idea to do the install on top of the normal VGA drivers
from the OS/2 disks or Service Pak. I tried it after trying the 8514/A
drivers and guess what? It didnt work. If you DO do this youll have to
copy over your OS2.INI file from \OS2\INSTALL\OS2.INI to fix your system.

BELOW

3.1 Get the following PATCH text into a text file on your OS/2 system,
    say s3patch.txt, in the cute directory.
3.2 Run this:-
	\os2\patch s3patch.txt /a
3.3 You should get about 4 messages saying "patch(s) applyed". Patching
    is complete.

PATCH
--- begin here ---
FILE SVGA.EXE
VER 10AF 7401C3
CHA 10AF 7501C3
VER 10EA 7401C3
CHA 10EA 7501C3
FILE VSVGA.SYS
VER F0C5 7401C3
CHA F0C5 7501C3
VER F140 7401C3
CHA F140 7501C3
FILE F10X8.DLL
VER 12BD2 4F7263686964
CHA 12BD2 44454D41524B
VER 12D98 546563686E6F6C6F6779
CHA 12D98 4F4620494E5445524E41
FILE F8X8.DLL
VER 12BD2 4F7263686964
CHA 12BD2 44454D41524B
VER 12D98 546563686E6F6C6F6779
CHA 12D98 4F4620494E5445524E41

--- end here ---

-- 
Antony Suter			[0] antony@werple.apana.org.au
Melbourne, Australia		[1] s871780@rmit.edu.au
"Call me Jack - stranger things have happened!"