HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: ogden_jon@macmail1.rtsg.mot.com
Subject: Re: MLMs=Entreprenuers?
Organization: CSG Group
Date: Thu, 10 Sep 1992 13:59:34 GMT

  
>
>        I don't think most people are willing to work as hard as most
>entrepreneurs maybe that is why go for so many quick money scams like the one
>that you keep pushing, i.e. mlm.
>
>        They offend me for one reason and one reason only they claim to be 
>something they aren't, namely a business and not a scam.
>

Aryeh,

YOU ARE WRONG AGAIN!!!!

MLM's don't claim to be get rich quick schemes.  In fact we tell people:

           * It is not a get rich quick scheme.  You will work and work your
butt off!
           * If anyone comes to you with a "good today only" offer - you can
bet it's
                     good today only!
           * We talk about a 2-5 year plan - Is that quick, maybe quicker than
40 yrs
                     but not it's not a get rich quick scheme.
    
The people I know of in my business work harder and perform more services than
90%
of the idiots out there.  So stop shooting off your mouth and showing your 
ignorance.

As Mark Twain said:

"It is better to keep your mouth shut and appear ignorant than to open it and
  remove all doubt!"

So get off your freaking high horse, and be open minded.

The mind is like a parachute  - it only works when its open!

Jon
From: wpalmer@oasys.dt.navy.mil (William Palmer)
Newsgroups: misc.entrepreneurs
Subject: Message to Jon Ogden
Date: 14 Sep 92 17:17:49 GMT
Reply-To: wpalmer@oasys.dt.navy.mil (William Palmer)
Organization: Naval Surface Warfare Center, Annapolis, MD

Jon,
    The sys.admin thinks there is a problem in your mail router, which
has the address motgate.mot.com, or 129.188.136.100. Apparently you're
converting your messages from macmail to the Internet system, and that
is a problem source as well.

    My apologies to the rest of you for taking up bandwidth for this
purpose. I hope you'll bear with us as we correct our communication
problem. Thanks.

Bill Palmer
-- 
----------------------------------------------
I'm the victim of EJ's signature virus! Oh No!
From: wpalmer@oasys.dt.navy.mil (William Palmer)
Newsgroups: misc.entrepreneurs
Subject: Re: Message for William Palmer
Date: 14 Sep 92 17:04:34 GMT
Reply-To: wpalmer@oasys.dt.navy.mil (William Palmer)
Organization: Naval Surface Warfare Center, Annapolis, MD

In misc.entrepreneurs, ogden_jon@macmail1.rtsg.mot.com writes:
>Bill,
>
>None of my messages I mail to you are getting through.  They
>all keep bouncing back for some reason!  I'll keep trying, but
>do you have another e-mail address?

Hi Jon,
	      My sys.admin is working on it, but right now he doesn't
know of an alternate address. I gave him your address, mailmac1.rtsg.mot.com,
and he said he'd check to see if problems exist between your site and
mine. And thanks for the message.


Bill
-- 
----------------------------------------------
I'm the victim of EJ's signature virus! Oh No!
Organization: Queen's University at Kingston
Date: Tue, 15 Sep 1992 10:54:30 EDT
From: <SLADEL@QUCDN.QueensU.CA>
Newsgroups: misc.entrepreneurs
Subject: CTDG and Success Institute

I'm looking into a distributorship with the Canadian Training and
Development Group (CTDG) of Mississauga, Ontario.  I would start up my
own personnel development and motivation training business; CTDG will
train me in business methods, product knowledge, etc, provide on-going
support, and be my product wholesaler.

Has anyone heard of CTDG, or dealt with them? I know they are
affiliated with the SUCCESS Institute in Waco, Texas who offers
distributorships in the US. So info on the SUCCESS Inst. would also
be helpful.

Thanks.
Laura
Newsgroups: misc.entrepreneurs
From: drw@euclid.mit.edu (Dale R. Worley)
Subject: Re: Postal bar coding
Organization: MIT Dept. of Tetrapilotomy, Cambridge, MA, USA
Distribution: usa
Date: Mon, 7 Sep 1992 19:45:26 GMT

In article <1992Sep4.043040.21454@news.columbia.edu> gmw1@cunixa.cc.columbia.edu (Gabe M Wiener) writes:
   Can anyone recommend a good reference source on this stuff?  Trying to call
   the mailing requirements division of the local post office has resulted in
   being put on perpetual hold.

Try the "Business Service Center" at the main post office in a nearby
city.  They are the people who serve people who send a lot of mail
(buy a lot of postage); consequently, they give good service.

Dale Worley		Dept. of Math., MIT		drw@math.mit.edu
--
Oxygen -- the original toxic waste.
From: rodb@slugo.corp.sgi.com (Rod Beckwith)
Newsgroups: misc.entrepreneurs
Subject: Re: product in development
Date: 8 Sep 92 09:13:11 GMT
Organization: Silicon Graphics, Inc.

Brian,[you write]

- What platforms are people using to develop animations? 
		Unix (which hardware, I bet Sun), amiga, PC, etc.
                                      ^^^^^^^^^^

I hate to be an animation snob but you never see ILM using A Sun..... I
think
A Silicon Graphics 4D system\IRIS (Any of them) would be a much better
choice for animation on a Unix platform that a Sun.<<<YUK!!!!!!

Rod


                          


-- 
Rod Beckwith     |$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ 
Datacom I/S      |"The great obstacle of progress is not ignorance,
rodb@corp.sgi.com|but the illusion of knowledge."
                 |$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$
From: cafe@cbnewse.cb.att.com (richard.dib)
Newsgroups: misc.entrepreneurs
Subject: Re: product in development
Date: 8 Sep 92 15:10:55 GMT
Article-I.D.: cbnewse.1992Sep8.151055.643
Distribution: usa
Organization: AT&T

I agree a 100%.  SGI machines are much nicer and faster doing graphics.
How about a new Crimson with the ELAN graphics.  Even the Indigo is a better
choice than ANY SUN.

Just an opinion from somebody that does not work in SGI.

Richard Dib
AT&T BL
dib@ihlpe.att.com

P.S. Even a NeXT Cube with the NeXTDimension board is a better choice than a 
SUN.  Don't think that it is better than an Indigo with ELAN graphics, though.
-------------------------------
In article <1992Sep8.091311.9393@odin.corp.sgi.com>, rodb@slugo.corp.sgi.com (Rod Beckwith) writes:
> Brian,[you write]
> 
> - What platforms are people using to develop animations? 
> 		Unix (which hardware, I bet Sun), amiga, PC, etc.
>                                       ^^^^^^^^^^
> 
> I hate to be an animation snob but you never see ILM using A Sun..... I
> think
> A Silicon Graphics 4D system\IRIS (Any of them) would be a much better
> choice for animation on a Unix platform that a Sun.<<<YUK!!!!!!
> 
> Rod
> 
> 
>                           
> 
> 
> -- 
> Rod Beckwith     |$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ 
> Datacom I/S      |"The great obstacle of progress is not ignorance,
> rodb@corp.sgi.com|but the illusion of knowledge."
>                  |$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$
> 
> 
> 			
Newsgroups: misc.entrepreneurs
From: nrd@redwood22 (Neal Dalton)
Subject: Re: product in development
X-Newsreader: Tin 1.1 PL5
Date: 10 Sep 92 22:13:47 CDT

Rod Beckwith (rodb@slugo.corp.sgi.com) wrote:
: Brian,[you write]
: 
: - What platforms are people using to develop animations? 
: 		Unix (which hardware, I bet Sun), amiga, PC, etc.
:                                       ^^^^^^^^^^
: I hate to be an animation snob but you never see ILM using A Sun..... I
: think
: A Silicon Graphics 4D system\IRIS (Any of them) would be a much better
: choice for animation on a Unix platform that a Sun.<<<YUK!!!!!!

SGI have special graphics hardware.

Please don't forget Crays, many movie have been made with them.  Also
go to a animation festival and look for credits.

--
Neal  /\    /   _     /   \|||/                   Neal Dalton
     /  \  / _  _\   /   /     \                  Cray Research, inc
    /    \/_</_(_/\_/   (  o o  )                 655-F Lone Oak Dr.
                         \  ^  /                  Eagan, MN 55121
                          \ 0 /                 
Internet: nrd@cray.com     \_/                    Phone: (612) 683-5607
    uucp: uunet!cray!nrd                          Fax:   (612) 683-5599
From: hho@aludra.usc.edu (** N.T.K.C.D. ***)
Newsgroups: misc.entrepreneurs
Subject: Re: DBA for Partnerships?
Date: 8 Sep 1992 23:55:37 -0700
Organization: University of Southern California, Los Angeles, CA
NNTP-Posting-Host: aludra.usc.edu

In article <1992Sep8.155355.14071@crd.ge.com> ivory@e7sa.epi.syr.ge.com writes:
>Towards your original question, I only had to insure that my name
>was unique within the county I applied for the DBA in.  They kept
>a file of 3x5 cards for all existing companies, so the research effort
>was almost nothing.

Please tell me what is a DBA? :-)
My father is thinking about going to the consultant business SOOOOOOOON,
as General Dynamics is dying :-)
He needs to open a checking account, and is wondering about the paper work. :_)
He is the only ownership. He needs a reseller license to buy wholesale??

LA is sooo big that it is tought to go around and ask questions :-)
Thanks
H.
-- 
*******************************************************************************
Hung P. Ho, Jr. (John)     USC DENTISTRY    PH.SYSTEMS          CCCOGP  
                           hho@usc.edu      hung@phsys.com      hung@cccogp.com
Organization: Carnegie Mellon, Pittsburgh, PA
Newsgroups: misc.entrepreneurs
Date: Mon, 14 Sep 1992 12:08:01 -0400 
From: University Entrepreneurs Association <ue33+@andrew.cmu.edu>
Subject: Re: Amway
	<1992Sep3.134937.12974@porthos.cc.bellcore.com>

>I suspect that Amway is a member of the DSA (the DSA has 3000 members - both
>traditional direct sales companies as well as MLM companies).  Do you know 
>which company has the most people making over $150,000 per year out of all 
>of these 3000 companies?  It sure isn't Amway!

It's NuSkin/IDN




--------------------------
D.Eric Bland
Carnegie Mellon University
ue33@andrew.cmu.edu
From: sja@world.std.com (Stuart J Adams)
Newsgroups: misc.entrepreneurs
Subject: What is the best low-cost PC Voice Mail System ???
Date: 11 Sep 92 17:42:17 GMT
Organization: The World Public Access UNIX, Brookline, MA

I am interested in a low-cost PC based Voice Mail system. The only one
I know of the the Big-Mouth. Are there others and are they better ????


Thanks,
Stuart Adams
sja@world.std.com
Newsgroups: misc.entrepreneurs
From: quandt@mcs213i.cs.umr.edu (Brian Quandt)
Subject:  product in development
Date: Tue, 8 Sep 1992 05:10:48 GMT
Organization: University of Missouri - Rolla


>
> Thought this newsgroup might be able to give an investors insight into
> my problem.
>

I am part of a company that is developing software for people
involved in animation, i.e., professional animators (computer based)
and amateurs.  Without saying too much, the product will be a companion 
product to products like (found on the amiga computer) dpaint (anim files)
lightwave, real3d, etc.  Simply put, the pruduct will greatly improve
the problem associated with single frame recording animation to tape.

The product that we are developing has a rough pricing of $1000 US.  Our 
preferred target market is the professional animator, however, at a $1000
it's possible that amateurs may also be interested.

What we need is information about people that we intend to market
to.  Any information would be helpful, especially references to magazines, 
and articles that can back up particular claims.

Here's a brief list of the kind of information we are looking for:
(the purpose of all this is the development of business plan)
	- How big is the market, i.e., how many people do animation?
	- How many are professional and how many amateurs?  Are there
		any other ways to seperate the different markets?
	- What platforms are people using to develop animations? 
		Unix (which hardware, I bet Sun), amiga, PC, etc.
	- What kind of budgets do professional animators have?  
	- What is the total US budget for animators?
	- What can be said of the capital acquisition for animation
		studios?  What is it like?
	- What methods of advertisment are most effective towards
		animators?
	- What magazines are read by animators?  That is where should
		magazine advertisment dollars be spent?
	- What generally could be said about animation studios?  Are
		they grey suit or blue jean type companies? 
	- What resources contains information that can answer many 
		of the above questions?  Any professional research
		firms anyone recommends?
	- How big of problem is it to single frame record animation
		to tape?
	- What file formats should the product be compartible with, in the
		amiga world the follwogin jumps to mind: anim5, iff24.


				Brian Quandt
				quandt@cs.umr.edu

Newsgroups: misc.entrepreneurs
From: mheney@access.digex.com (Michael K. Heney)
Subject: Re: DBA for Partnerships?
Organization: Express Access Online Communications, Greenbelt, MD USA
Date: Tue, 8 Sep 1992 13:32:41 GMT

In article <1992Sep8.044152.1471@porthos.cc.bellcore.com> bba@donuts3 (Binayak Banerjee) writes:
>Hi,
>
>A friend and I are starting on an enterprise.  We don't want to
>incorporate until we have some real income coming in.  We would like
>to be Frobozz Enterprises (say) rather than Joe & Blow.
>
>So, the question is: can we legally use a name without having to go
>through the process of incorporation.  Can we set up a bank account
>without hassles?  This is for a partnership -- not an individual.
>
>Thanks for your responses,
>
>-- Binayak

Yep - a DBA is perfect for doing this.  Just walk into your friendly
neighborhood bank with your DBA registration paperwork, and they'll
be glad to let you open a business account.  (The fees are generally 
more on business accounts).  One thing to know about business accounts -
you must DEPOSIT all checks written to your business into the account.  
You can't just cash them, and you can't sign them over to yourself and
deposit it into a personal account.  Good Luck!

-- 
Mike Heney                |                                  |  Reach for the
mheney@access.digex.com   |     * Will Work for Money *      |  Stars, eh?
Kensington, MD (near DC)  |                                  |
From: cliff@allen.com (Cliff Allen)
Newsgroups: misc.entrepreneurs
Subject: Re: product in development
Date: Tue, 08 Sep 92 22:33:41 EDT
Organization: Allen Marketing Group - Raleigh, NC

quandt@mcs213i.cs.umr.edu (Brian Quandt) writes:

> I am part of a company that is developing software for people
> involved in animation, i.e., professional animators (computer based)
> and amateurs.  Without saying too much, the product will be a companion 
> product to products like (found on the amiga computer) dpaint (anim files)
> lightwave, real3d, etc.  Simply put, the pruduct will greatly improve
> the problem associated with single frame recording animation to tape.
> 
> The product that we are developing has a rough pricing of $1000 US.  Our 
> preferred target market is the professional animator, however, at a $1000
> it's possible that amateurs may also be interested.

We have a client with a high-quality audio editing system for 386 & 486 
PCs that sells in the same price range and amateurs buy it as well as 
studios mastering CDs, so you'll probably see the same type of market.

> 
> What we need is information about people that we intend to market
> to.  Any information would be helpful, especially references to magazines, 
> and articles that can back up particular claims.
> 
> Here's a brief list of the kind of information we are looking for:
> (the purpose of all this is the development of business plan)
> 	- How big is the market, i.e., how many people do animation?

Obtain the media kits from key magazines and examine the audit statements 
for numbers of people in the industry.  There are always more people in 
an industry than just those who read the trade publications, but it's 
still interesting data.

> 	- What platforms are people using to develop animations? 
> 		Unix (which hardware, I bet Sun), amiga, PC, etc.

In talking with someone who attended Siggraph this year many animators 
are using Silicon Graphics workstations.

> 	- What kind of budgets do professional animators have?  

High-end (film and TV) animators charge around $1,000 per second.  That's 
for 30 frames per second, 5-15 minutes to render each frame, plus 
creative development time.

> 	- What methods of advertisment are most effective towards
> 		animators?
> 	- What magazines are read by animators?  That is where should
> 		magazine advertisment dollars be spent?

The publications we've seen cover this industry are New Media, Iris 
(covers use of the SGI), Computer Graphics World, and Professional 
Presentations.

Take a look at the ads in New Media and you'll see a full range of ads 
from small black & white ads to full-page color ads.  If you have 
something graphic and colorful to show, you'll need more space than if 
you're selling an add-on utility.  

Sometimes direct mail is more economical than space advertising,
especially if your product is platform-specific.  Check the audit 
statement for New Media -- it has good platform, operating system, and 
LAN data, as well as capital budgets, industries, etc.

Good luck!

Cliff


Newsgroups: misc.entrepreneurs
From: cafe@cbnewse.cb.att.com (richard.dib)
Subject: Info wanted on Medical Claims processing business
Organization: AT&T
Distribution: usa
Date: Tue, 8 Sep 1992 06:00:52 GMT
Keywords: medical claim business

Hi There:

There are several companies that sell a software that will let you 
submit medical claims electronically to the insurance companies.

Does anybody know where to get more information about this?
Which companies sell such a software? 

Thanks in advance!

Richard Dib
AT&T Bell Laboratories
dib@ihlpe.att.com
From: audit020@spacm1.spac.spc.com (Wayne.S.)
Newsgroups: misc.entrepreneurs
Subject: Any Hallmark experience?
Date: 9 Sep 92 16:03:38 PDT
Organization: Security Pacific Automation Co., LA, CA

I've had it with the corporate life and I'm looking into my own biz.

A good choice seems to be a greeting card shop.

Does anyone on the net have any experience in dealing with Hallmark? I
understand they don't franchise but they do have to approve their retailers.

Thanks in advance.

W. Socha
From: fritz@hpfcbig.sde.hp.com (Gary Fritz (tmp))
Newsgroups: misc.entrepreneurs
Subject: Re: Amway vs Primerica vs Whatever vs Widgets Inc
Date: 8 Sep 92 14:58:09 GMT
Article-I.D.: fc.Bu9LKy.Ju0
Reply-To: Gary Fritz <fritz@hpfcbig.sde.hp.com>
Organization: HP SESD, Fort Collins, CO
X-Newsreader: Tin 1.1scd1 PL4

aryeh@cash.ucsc.edu (Aryeh Friedman) writes:
> For the thousandth time MLM!=Entrepreneur ...

You can say it a thousand times, Aryeh, but that doesn't make it fact.
It is YOUR PERSONAL OPINION that MLM is an illegal scam, and that any of us
who stoop to be involved in it are sewer scum who are not fit to associate
with lofty and pure entrepreneurs like yourself.  OPINION, not fact.

Nevertheless, I agree that these discussions should happen in a.b.m-l
out of consideration to the rest of the m.e crowd.

> ... personally I think that if MLM was really
> reconized as a fraud you all whould be in jail.

I agree completely:

  - YOU PERSONALLY think that.  No argument.

  - **IF** MLM was recognized as a fraud, we would be in jail.  Also no
    argument.  **IF** MLM was a fraud we'd be crooks.  However, ***MLM HAS
    NEVER BEEN RECOGNIZED BY THE COURTS AS A FRAUD***!!!  (Some companies, 
    sure.  And some stock brokerages have been recognized as frauds, too, but 
    that doesn't mean every stock broker is a thief.)  This is FACT, Aryeh, 
    not your or anyone else's opinion.  Please stop trying to force your 
    misguided opinion on everyone as fact.

Gary
From: aryeh@cash.ucsc.edu (Aryeh Friedman)
Newsgroups: misc.entrepreneurs
Subject: Re: Definition
Date: 8 Sep 1992 22:29:08 GMT
Organization: Marsnet
NNTP-Posting-Host: cash.ucsc.edu

In article <1992Sep8.145947.25355@lmpsbbs.comm.mot.com> ogden_jon@macmail1.rtsg.mot.com writes:
>We are NOT employees!  I am not on Amway's payroll nor is any other
>distributor.  
	
	See my arguments in a.b.m-l
From: cliff@allen.com (Cliff Allen)
Newsgroups: misc.entrepreneurs
Subject: Re: Mailing Lists vs Magazine Advertisements
Date: Fri, 11 Sep 92 00:18:34 EDT
Organization: Allen Marketing Group - Raleigh, NC

moghal@aludra.usc.edu (Nadeem Moghal) writes:

> Alright. Here is the main part od my question. I hope someone 
> would be kind enough to suggest a few answers.
> 
>    An Ad in a magazine like Popular Science costs at least $125
>    (for a smallest possible size). But it goes to a very large
>    multitude of prospective buyers. Even if half a percent of
>    those think favorably, you'd be talking of thousands of 
>    prospects.

In a business-to-business publication (such as PC Magazine, etc.) you can 
expect to pay $50-75 per inquiry for most products.  Several factors work 
together to make this rather consistant across ad size, circulation, 
industry, etc.  Printing, postage, and salaries are about the same for 
magazines of equal page count and circulation.  Awareness studies show 
that well-designed ads tend to generate about the same number of leads as 
other ads of the same size.  

> 
>    Direct-mail, on the other hand, goes only to the people you
>    choose. Let's see how much it'd cost to mail the letter to
>    say, 5000 addresses:
> 
>         mailing list  ~ 200   (is this a safe estimate?)

Most mailing list companies have a 5,000 name minimum at a rate of 
$85-$150 per thousand.

>    And, the response is generally between 3-5% (am I right?) which
>    comes to 150-250. And depending upon the product, this would
>    barely break even.

For rented (i.e., "cold") lists you can assume orders from 0.5% or 
inquiries from 3-5%.  Mailing to a "hot" list of leads generated from 
advertising or PR results in much higher response rates.

Cliff
From: ivory@e7sa.epi.syr.ge.com (John Ivory)
Newsgroups: misc.entrepreneurs
Subject: Re: DBA for Partnerships?
Date: 10 Sep 92 13:14:10 GMT
Reply-To: ivory@e7sa.epi.syr.ge.com
Organization: Tower Concepts

> Please tell me what is a DBA? :-)
> My father is thinking about going to the consultant business SOOOOOOOON,
> as General Dynamics is dying :-)
> He needs to open a checking account, and is wondering about the paper work. :_)
> He is the only ownership. He needs a reseller license to buy wholesale??

DBA is an abbreviation for "Doing Business As".  As I understand it, it allows
you to establish a name for yourself.  You get one of these (at least in NY)
at the county clerks office and it costs about $35.  Your mileage may vary.

You then take this down to the bank and open a checking account under the
DBA name.  It's all kinda silly, but it does lend some formality to what
is coming down.

Other opinions/comments?
Newsgroups: misc.entrepreneurs
From: edwin@tellabs.com (Ed "Space Ace" Whitfield)
Subject: Offshore Credit Cards
Keywords: credit cards
Organization: Tellabs, Inc.
Date: Wed, 9 Sep 1992 03:16:21 GMT

Does anyone know any Offshore bank that offers Credit Cards to U.S. citizens?

--
-------------------------------------------------------------------- 
Ed "Space Ace" Whitfield                Voice: 708/955-3126 
Information Guru                        Data.: 312/326-4750 

Tellabs Operations, Inc.                Lisle/Naperville, IL 
--------------------------------------------------------------------
From: aryeh@cash.ucsc.edu (Aryeh Friedman)
Newsgroups: misc.entrepreneurs
Subject: Re: Amway vs Primerica vs Whatever vs Widgets Inc
Date: 8 Sep 1992 22:26:42 GMT
Organization: Marsnet
NNTP-Posting-Host: cash.ucsc.edu

In article <1992Sep8.165927.16491@hubcap.clemson.edu> cyclist@hubcap.clemson.edu (Barry Johnson) writes:
>Do you believe that it is possible for an individual to buy into a
>franchise (Taco Bell, Pizza Hut, McDonalds etc...) and still be an
>entrepreneur?  If so why is being part of an MLM any different?

I believe tradtional francises since the are not allowed to sub franicise,
i.e. the parent company can maintain control more directly (in that there is
some univeraslity of policies), while allowing the indivual francise more
freedom.  MLM has to do this with dogma also why should the parent company
get any benefit if there are subfrancises!
Newsgroups: misc.entrepreneurs