From: orville%weyrich@uunet.uu.net (Orville R. Weyrich)
Subject: Re: Why do Americans get so little vacation time?
Reply-To: uunet.uu.net!weyrich!orville
Organization: Weyrich Computer Consulting
Date: Sun, 4 Oct 92 20:09:33 GMT

In article <BvAx3p.8ny@apollo.hp.com> betsyp@apollo.hp.com (Betsy Perry) writes:
>In article <1992Sep18.160416.4427@weyrich.UUCP> tnet.com!weyrich!orville writes:
>>In article <1992Sep14.193530.19337@leland.Stanford.EDU> cjb@vega.stanford.edu writes:
>. In particular, your table that gave
>>the "maternity leave" benefit for the U.S. as 0 should be where that
>>"sick leave" is placed if you don't want to put it as paid vacation.
>>
>>Partly because of EEO, companies do not offer explicit "maternity leave",
>>but treat it as a medical condition and give paid sick-leave. Now if a
>>woman pops out a baby every 9 months, she's going to use up her sick
>>leave pretty fast. But more typical would be one baby per 2 or 3 years.
>
>I think you are misunderstanding the distinction between maternity 
>leave, disability leave, and sick leave.  
>
>"Maternity leave", as implemented in many European countries, allows
>an employee to take paid leave for a period of *months* following the
>birth or adoption of a child.  In the Scandinavian countries, this
>leave is available to both parents of a child.  This leave is not
>related to the parent's physical condition.  

In other words, this is to support "family values" rather than to fulfill
any physical need.

Is there any limit to the number of times this "parental leave" can be
invoked ? [Got to be gender-neutral in this country, y'know. :-) ]

As another poster on the net says in his .sig, "Family values means a job."

Right now the U.S. is suffering from massive budget and trade deficits.
I cannot support burdening employers with any new social program, no matter
how  meritorious it might be, if it would have the effect of increasing costs.
Nor can I support burdening the taxpayers with any new  social programs, no
matter how meritorious, if it would have the effect of increasing government
spending.

Trade deficits and budget deficits really mean that we are artifically raising
our standard of living above that which our efforts can actually support. The
longer we do this, the deeper the hole we dig for future generations [and for
the present generations when they get ready to retire].

So there you have it. Parental leave has merit, but until we eliminate either
the trade deficit or the budget deficit, we simply can't afford it. To try to
institute it would simply exacerbate our present situation, and would probably
lead to even more unemployment.

>"Disability leave", by contrast, allows an employee to remain absent
>from work only while the employee is physically incapacitated; when
...


>"Sick leave", finally, accrues at the rate of a few days per year,
>and is generally expected to be used for minor illnesses.  The three
>are completely different kinds of leave, and are not interchangeable.

Sick leave and disablility leave are not really different kinds of leave ...
they are typically paid for out of different pots of money, but are not
inherrently different. They are both granted because of a physical condition
that prevents the employee from working. The easiest way to see that they
are really the same is to note that the former must be used before the
latter can be invoked, and that the cut-over is arbitrary.

>>So do you put the "sick leave" under maternity as about 3 weeks, or
>>put it under vacation as about 5 days? I don't have a strong preference.
>>But you have to put it somewhere, or you are stacking the deck.
>
>Both are incorrect.  The U.S.  has no mandatory category called
>"Maternity leave", and it deserves its zero.  American women who become pregnant

Because "maternity leave" is Politikally InKoreckt in this country. It 
discriminates against males. And besides, by your definition, maternity leave
is not made on the basis of a physical condition. Since it is physically 
practical for a woman to go home after work, deliver a baby, and report to 
work the next morning, and since by your definition, "maternity leave" is 
not for physical conditions, then the woman must draw some time off from
some other category -- sick leave and/or disability being the obvious category.

>are dependent on sick leave or disability leave if their jobs offer them,
>and many jobs don't.  That's why some of us crypto-Socialists thought
>the Family Leave Act, although not sufficient, was necessary.

While nice, we can't afford it, unless you can find some other category of
social programs to steal the money from [and no proposal I have heard includes
any reduction in other programs so as to have a neutral impct on employers and
taxpayers].


Actually, I think that the real issue is that the Politikally Koreckt have
painted themselves into a corner and are looking for a way out. It is P.K.
to insist that women are just as cost-effective workers as men, and that
there is no gender-inherrent difference in their ability to do any given
job. If this is accepted as axiomatic, then there is no justification for
giving women time off from work for "physical needs" associated with 
pregnancy, labor, and delivery, so sick leave must be used for this purpose.
The problem is that sick leave is really not adequate for this purpose,
but to give women additional time off to meet the physical needs associated
with pregnancy would contradict the original P.K. axiom.

So to be P.K., a new source of time off must be found -- 
Ah Ha ! "parental leave"! We can argue that parental leave is necessary  for
both males and females. But it is a rather hard sell during a time of
trade deficits and budget deficits and their consequent economic depression.



orville

--------------------------------------   **************************************
Orville R. Weyrich, Jr.                        Weyrich Computer Consulting
Certified Data Processor                     POB 5782, Scottsdale, AZ 85261
Certified Systems Professional                   Voice: (602) 391-0821
Certified Computer Programmer            Internet: orville%weyrich@uunet.uu.net
--------------------------------------   **************************************
Newsgroups: misc.jobs.misc