HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: mjs@fc.hp.com (Marc Sabatella)
Newsgroups: rec.music.bluenote
Subject: Re: recommendations:Brubeck
Date: 8 Oct 92 17:25:03 GMT
Article-I.D.: fc.BvtCDr.E26
Reply-To: marc@hpmonk.fc.hp.com
Organization: Hewlett-Packard Fort Collins Site
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1.2 PL6]

william.j.hery (wjh@cbnewsl.cb.att.com) wrote:
 
: >...but on the whole, nothing
: >I can think of really goes directly at the "Time Out" sound...
: 
: Well, Max Roach was recording in 5/4 before Brubeck, but it didn't sound like
: Bru because his group wasn't nearly as stiff as Bru's in that odd time
: signature.

I didn't just mean the time signatures; the whole sound of that album (Time
Out) is, I think, pretty unusual.  For better or for worse, there are really no
other pianists that sound like Brubeck except for a few passing resemblences
here and there; and none of those are combined with anything like Joe Morello
or Paul Desmond or the feel of the compositions on "Time Out".  Given the
popularity of that album, I am surprised there wasn't suddenly an abundance of
imitators.

Some specific things, other than the time signatures, that the Brubeck quartet
of that period brought together: Paul Desmond's alto - most similar to Lee
Konitz in sound, but with a more horizontal (melodic) as opposed to vertical
(chord/scale based) improvisational sense.  Joe Morello's drumming - accents
and polyrhythms but in a very subdued manner.  Brubeck's piano - switching
from very simple, almost Basie-like, lines, to block chords with an amazingly
modern (for the 1950's) harmonic sense, leading rather naturally to a cluster
approach as they started doing more originals and less standards, plus the
ability to appear to turn the beat around three or four times in a single
phrase, something I really only heard from Tristano, and in a totally different
way, Monk, among contemporaries.  The compositions - not just your basic 32 bar
AABA song forms, not just blues forms; and yes, the meters (although "Take
Five" itself isn't that big a deal; I'm thinking more of what I think is the
second to last tune).  Combine all these aspects, and I can't think of a single
other group that sounded anything like this.

Brubeck was my secondary (after Oscar Peterson) introduction to jazz.  I too
reached a point where I lost interest in him, but I think my appreciation is
being renewed as I realize just how unusual this group really was.

--
Marc Sabatella
marc@hpmonk.fc.hp.com
Newsgroups: rec.music.bluenote
Subject: Re: Rova in Chicago
From: hsu@walnut.sfsu.edu (William Hsu)
Date: 14 Oct 92 15:45:16 PDT
Reply-To: hsu@walnut.sfsu.edu
Distribution: world

In article <1992Oct14.001246.3023@odin.corp.sgi.com>  writes:
> At the Splatter Trio release show (same place, next week) I saw Dan and
> Clayton Glad and Rick Rees.   Bill was apparently posing as a legitimate 
> member of society, and missed a great show. 

Let's just say I crashed after a hard day at work, lecturing till 7pm
:-(

Hey, how about those London Jazz Composers Orchestra reviews????
(I would post a review of me listening to all my LJCO records, but
you don't want to read that, right?)

Bill
From: ia0n+@andrew.cmu.edu (Ignatios Alexander)
Newsgroups: rec.music.bluenote
Subject: Re: JAZZ TROMBONE
Date: 9 Oct 92 16:03:50 GMT
	<BvuutA.Cr7@uxa.ecn.bgu.edu>
Organization: University Libraries - Administration, Carnegie Mellon, Pittsburgh, PA

ujwb@uxa.ecn.bgu.edu (Jeff Beer) writes:
>Fletcher Henderson had a very fast trombone player too.  Can't recall
>his name.

Probably J.C. Higginbotham or Sandy Williams.

Anybody mention Trummy Young, who replaced Jack Teagarden in Louis Armstrong's
All Stars?

---Ignatios Alexander
Newsgroups: rec.music.bluenote
From: tesar@tigger.cs.Colorado.EDU (Bruce Tesar)
Subject: What Are Cutouts? (was Re: Cutouts and record company economics)
Organization: University of Colorado, Boulder
Distribution: usa
Date: Wed, 7 Oct 1992 17:30:03 GMT

In article <1992Oct6.190326.11326@cbnewsl.cb.att.com> wjh@cbnewsl.cb.att.com (william.j.hery) writes:
>
... much discussion deleted ...
>
>And then the returns get put in the cut-out bins, the companies still
>make a profit on them (but the artists get no royalties), and the cuts
>compete against (and potentially take sales away from) other jazz recordings
>by the same or similar artists, screwing the artists out of royalties.
>
... much more discussion deleted ...
>
>Bill Hery
>AT&T Bell Labs
>201-386-2362
>hery@att.COM

    Here is a simple (I hope) question: what exactly are cutouts? I can
infer some things from peoples' comments, such as Bill's above, but can
someone concisely state the basic principle/process? Please alleviate
my ignorance!

Bruce
-- 
Bruce B. Tesar                    Internet:  tesar@cs.colorado.edu
Computer Science Department
University of Colorado at Boulder 
Boulder, CO  USA  80309-0430
Newsgroups: rec.music.bluenote
From: buzzsaw@bluemoon.rn.com (Patrick Buzby)
Subject: "Weird Nightmare" opinions wanted
Organization: Blue Moon BBS ((614) 868-998[024])
Date: Sat, 10 Oct 92 18:49:12 EDT

What do people on this board think of Hal Willner's new Charles Mingus 
tribute, "Weird Nightmare"?  I'm a fan both of Mingus and of Willner's 
previous Monk and Weill homages, so I would be curious to hear what anyone 
has to say.

     Pat Buzby           "Fried ice cream is a reality!"-George Clinton
     Grove City, OH      "Music is the best."-Frank Zappa
Newsgroups: rec.music.bluenote
From: mcgonig@eeserv.ee.umanitoba.ca (Gordon McGonigal)
Subject: Re: Jazz History/Books&Collections
Organization: Dept. of Elect. & Comp. Engineering, U of Manitoba
Date: Wed, 14 Oct 1992 02:50:09 GMT

wjh@cbnewsl.cb.att.com (william.j.hery) writes:
>Miles autobiography is certainly the most entertaining jazz "history" book
>I've read, and I'd heartily recommend it. But:
[....]
>7. It is poorly edited. Apparantly Miles just rambled on into a mike and
>   Troupe edited it. There are both repetiions and contradictions.

I've wondered about this.  While reading it, I was struck by a feeling
of *deja vu* with regard to some of the stories.  I had previously read
the bios by Carr and Chambers, so, unless Miles was capable of telling
the same story twice (you decide) I wonder if Troupe didn't edit in
bits from other sources.  Did anyone else have this feeling?
--
                                   * * *
Gord McGonigal                                  mcgonig@eeserv.ee.UManitoba.ca
Dept. of Electrical & Computer Engineering
University of Manitoba, Winnipeg, CANADA (R3T 2N2)       phone: (204) 474-6295
From: charless@cory.Berkeley.EDU (Charles R. Sullivan)
Newsgroups: rec.music.bluenote
Subject: St. John's 12/6 at Stanford
Keywords: Coltrane
Date: 17 Oct 92 00:00:57 GMT
Distribution: ba
Organization: University of California, at Berkeley

St. John's African Orthodox Church 
  invites you to attend a 
Celebration of A Love Supreme
25th year anniversary of John W. Coltrane's Ascension
Divine Liturgy St. John Coltrane Mass
Stanford University Chapel
December 6, 1992  7:00-10:00 PM

Consecration and Unveiling of the St. John Coltrane I-con

The Music of John Coltrane to the ancient Liturgy of the African Orthodox
Church

All are Welcome to Attend

Celebrant the Most Reverend F. W. King, D.D.

Musical participants: "Ohnedaruth"

Special Guest Artists

Ads for the Souvenir Booklet are now being accepted

Contact person:  Mother Marina  415 822 6657        415 621 4054
Correspondence: 351 Divisadero St., San Francisco, CA 94117
_______________________________________________________________________________

The above was a flyer I received at a service at St. John's.  
(Services are Sunday at 11:45, at the above address.)
Newsgroups: rec.music.bluenote
From: cc@cowan.fishkill.ibm.com (Chris Cowan)
Subject: Re: Urbaniak
Date: Thu, 15 Oct 92 22:08:18 GMT
Reply-To: cc@vnet.ibm.com
Organization: Pough, NY


In article <1992Oct9.195056.3870@polaris.utu.fi>, hmikola@polaris.utu.fi
(Hannu Tapio Mikola) writes:
|> Michael Urbaniak + Urzula Dudzniak (spelling OK?). I'm looking for CD's
|> especially from the early 70's. At that time they had a band with an
|> exceptionally talented black bassist.
|> 
|> Please post *any* information to hmikola@utu.fi

Urbaniak is playing around NYC.   I saw him in Poughkeepsie about 6 months ago.
(To be perfectly honest I wasn't knocked out by his playing.   I liked
his backup band better than him!)

I also recently saw some of his CD's in store nearby.   They were in the
cutout bins.   I'll try to note the titles, the next time I'm there.

Chris Cowan 
cc@vnet.ibm.com
From: f88mattb@fy.chalmers.se (Mattias Bryntesson)
Newsgroups: rec.music.bluenote
Subject: Re: Gil Goldstein
Date: 9 Oct 92 09:39:59 GMT
Organization: Chalmers University of Technology, G|teborg, Sweden

Gil's also on saxist Bill Evans "Summertime" together with Bill (ss, ts),
Chuck Loeb (g), Marc Johnson (b), and Dan Gottlieb (dr).

Mattias
Newsgroups: rec.music.bluenote
From: torda@igc.ethz.ch (Andrew Torda)
Subject: Re: Fred Frith recommendations
Keywords: Frith Ferdinand Bruniferd
Organization: Computational Chemistry, ETH, Zuerich
Date: Sun, 11 Oct 1992 13:17:56 GMT

buzzsaw@bluemoon.rn.com (Patrick Buzby) writes:
[... Frith stuff ...]
>Can anyone p;rovide details on what the collaboration with Ferdinand 
>Richard is like?  
[...]

It is a fun, almost operatic tale which, if done by anyone else,
might sound pretentious.
Frith and Ferdinand bounce along expounding some bizarre story
involving Arab terrorists, a miracle pate, a whiskey dealer and
metamorphosis into benign spirits of the sea.
The lyrics are in French, but the booklet has translations into
English and German.
Vocals are all done by Ferdinand and sit on top of a mixture of
mostly guitars and percussion with odd squeals from sax and
violins.
To me, all the fun is in the melodramatic edge that Frith and
Ferdinand put on to what are relatively simple tunes.
There is very little overt virtuoso playing from either of the
main players, but there is lots of clever construction which
makes the whole thing interesting.

If you end up hearing it and liking it, you might want to have a
listen to another collaboration involving Fred Ferdinand, called
Bruniferd. It is Ferdinand on guitars and some sax player whose
name I've forgotten. I haven't heard the CD, but I saw the pair
playing live and it also had Ferdinand's sense of humour on top
of lively sax and guitar.

-Andrew
-- 

Andrew Torda, Computational Chemistry, ETH, Zurich, torda@igc.ethz.ch
Newsgroups: rec.music.bluenote
From: smehta@kwela.nynexst.com (Sandeep Mehta)
Newsgroups: rec.music.bluenote
Subject: Re: JAZZ TROMBONE
Date: 9 Oct 92 17:58:46 GMT
Reply-To: smehta@nynexst.com
Organization: Speech Technology, AI Lab, NYNEX S&T Inc, White Plains, NY


> hsu@walnut.sfsu.edu (William Hsu) writes:

> As usual, I'm too lazy to post a proper reply, but will add footnotes
> to excellent responses such as:

I was pretty lazy too (and I had help from recdb software). I should
add a strong, though belated, disclaimer that all albums and recos
were from my own record collection which, obviously, is biased.  So,
to twist Langston Hughes, if you dig you'll be dug in return ;-)

> If Sandeep is refering to Crisis, I agree that it's probably the
> strongest of their more recent releases. Actually In America which
> Sandeep also listed is worth hearing. Thermonuclear Sweat is an early
> record that I like a lot.

I do like In America more than Heroes despite a fun intro to Mr. Bond
and DeBatman on the latter album. The Hendrix covers of Foxy Lady and
Manic Depression, as creative covers go, didn't grab me. I prefer the
radically different covers of the same by the String Trio of NY.

> Finally, I'm surprised Sandeep forgot to mention the exuberant New Yorker
> Dave Taylor who usually plays bass trombone. He plays on Herb Robertson's
> recent CD.

Well the trombonists list was *heavily* edited so Taylor got left out
;-). He also appears on an earlier Roberts and on the large ensemble
that recorded EPITAPH. I don't recall if he was in the group that
performed @ Damrosch Park. The recording was made inside @ Avery
Fisher Hall during the premiere.

Mingus, Charles - Epitaph                                   (Columbia 1990, CD)
Roberts, Hank - Black Pastels                                    (JMT 1988, LP)

/sandeep
--
smehta@nynexst.com
--
        "This space of time is organized. We need not fear these
	 silences, -- we may love them." -- John Cage, Silences, 1961.
From: millsad@prlhp1.prl.philips.co.uk (Alan Mills)
Newsgroups: rec.music.bluenote
Subject: Re: Erroll Garner
Date: 7 Oct 92 12:01:13 GMT
Reply-To: millsad@prlhp1.UUCP (Alan Mills)
Organization: Philips Research Laboratories, Redhill, UK

In article <BvDwGL.ACs@dcs.ed.ac.uk> bruns@dcs.ed.ac.uk (Glenn Bruns) writes:
>I've been enjoying an Erroll Garner CD recently called 'Body and
>Soul', part of the Columbia Masterpieces series.  Twenty shortish
>tunes, mostly standards, with a hint of drums and bass in the
>background.  The recordings, from about 1952, have been cleaned
>up and sound good to my ears.
>
>Could someone recommend other Erroll Garner albums, or other albums in 
>a similar style.  Living in Edinburgh, I'll only be able to find
>mainstream recordings.  Is the Garner disk in Verve's Compact Classics
>series good?  The other Garner disks in the Columbia Masterpieces series?
>

"Concert by the Sea" which Erroll recorded at Carmel in 1955 is
available on CD in the CBS Jazz Masterpieces series.  The number in
Britain is:  CBS 451042 2.  It should be readily available, I've seen it
in Our Price for about 8.95 UK pounds.  He was accompanied by Eddie
Calhoun on bass and Denzil Best on drums.  I recommend this record:
although the audio quality leaves something to be desired, the music is
excellent.  The tunes are mostly standards (They can't take that away
from me, April in Paris etc) and Errol was in fine form.

While I'm on the subject - I'm impressed with the CBS reissues in this
series.  They appear to be straightforward reissues of LPs which means
that the duration is not so impressive for a CD but the music is of a
high standard.  It includes a couple of good sessions by Louis and the
All-Stars (plays Fats, plays W.C.Handy), several of the classic Miles Davis
albums, Ellington at Newport, Benny Goodman at Carnegie Hall (includes
Sing, Sing, Sing for the person who asked about that recently), Mingus
Ah Um, and an excellent session with Ben Webster, Harry Edison and Hank
Jones.  All good stuff and all readily available in the High Street at a
reasonable price.  Needless to say, I have no connection - I think
Philips used to own this material but not any more.

Alan Mills (millsad@prl.philips.co.uk)
Philips Research Laboratories
Cross Oak Lane, Redhill, Surrey, RH1 5HA, U.K (tel: +44 293 785544)
From: bweiner@ruhets.rutgers.edu (Benjamin Weiner)
Newsgroups: rec.music.bluenote
Subject: Re: MINGUS favs.
Date: 8 Oct 92 19:50:04 GMT
Organization: Rutgers Univ., New Brunswick, N.J.

Marc Sabatella writes:
>It [Ah Um] isn't really one of my favorites - a little overly sanitized for
>my tastes - and as you mention, no lyrics on "Fables", which was indeed on
>"CM Presents CM", BTW.  What was the "companion release" you mention, though? 
>I've seen a few other CD's from Candid that ostensibly feature the same
>group, but they don't seem in any sense "companion releases" ...

Even if Mingus Ah Um is somewhat cleaned up, it's still great.  This 
album is great for turning people on to jazz (something I would not
use "CM Presents CM" for, even though I might like it better).  This
Mosaic Mingus-on-Columbia sounds necessary; I like the "Mingus
Dynasty" album a lot but have never seen it except in that reissue
twofer LP (and that took me a bloody long time to find, it must have
gone out o' print when they reissued Ah Um on LP).

The companion album to CM Presents CM is called "Mingus" and was
recorded by Candid at about the same time.  It has three cuts,
"Lock Up," "MDM," and one other.  "Lock Up" as in Bellevue, I believe.
BTW, I thought the words to "Original Faubus Fables" were quite
understandable.  And relevant in this wonderful election year -

 "2 4 6 8, they brainwash and teach you hate!"
Newsgroups: rec.music.bluenote
From: smehta@kwela.nynexst.com (Sandeep Mehta)
Subject: Ed Blackwell passes away
Reply-To: smehta@nynexst.com
Organization: Speech Technology, AI Lab, NYNEX S&T Inc, White Plains, NY
Date: 8 Oct 92 00:49:34


I hate to be the carrier of sad tidings but Ed Blackwell passed away
at 6:20pm on Wed, Oct 7 at a hospital in Hartford, CT. No further
details were provided by WKCR.

That, including Beaver Harris, makes two great drummers who have
passed away in the past year. Ed Blackwell was a jazz giant who now
watches over us from the big band in the sky.

/sandeep
--
smehta@nynexst.com
--
        "This space of time is organized. We need not fear these
	 silences, -- we may love them." -- John Cage, Silences, 1961.
From: bt979@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Jeff Preston)
Newsgroups: rec.music.bluenote
Subject: Re: Major *UZEB* news
Date: 10 Oct 1992 05:18:28 GMT
Organization: Case Western Reserve University, Cleveland, OH (USA)
Reply-To: bt979@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Jeff Preston)
NNTP-Posting-Host: hela.ins.cwru.edu


In a previous article, wcsanil@superior.carleton.ca (Anil Prasad) says:

>If you're one of the poor saps that hasn't realized that Uzeb was
>the best fusion band of the 80s, well, it's time for you to learn!

  Some of us poor saps have been looking for their material for a very
long time, indeed. Can't find 'em where I be. Any suggestions for a source,
Anil?

  Jeff

  P.S. -- did you ever get you-know-what from you-know-whom?

-- 
| Jeff Preston - owner and moderator of | "We don't  get  many requests |
| the  Allan Holdsworth discussion list |  for recent history."  -- Mr. |
| *** To subscribe, send e-mail to: *** |  Atoz, from the '69 Star Trek |
| <atavachron@morekypr.morehead-st.edu> |  episode _All Our Yesterdays_ |
From: ken_blackman@gateway.qm.apple.com (Ken Blackman)
Newsgroups: rec.music.bluenote
Subject: Re: jazz musicians deserving attention (was Re: JAZZ IS DYING:HELP!!)
Date: 16 Oct 92 01:34:43 GMT
Organization: Apple Computer, Inc


In article <1992Oct15.012517.6976@nynexst.com>, stuart@nynnexst.com (Rory Stuart) writes:
> 
> 
> Dave Creamer:  As I mentioned in my previous posting, George Benson described
> [...]
> I haven't spoken with Dave for a while, and don't imagine he performs much
> live to this day, but are there any r.m.b. readers who have heard him
> around the bay area?

I've heard him.   He's great.   When I was playing keyboards, the guitarist
in my band was studying with him, and I was always jealous.   We used to go
see him at Earls Solano club in albany (this was 7-8 years ago).   His
whole band was excellent, and his tunes were very original, heavy on the
melodic invention utilizing non-standard scales.   He was strictly a linear
player -- one time we were listening to a late set, this was like the 7th
or 8th time we'd seen him, and suddenly my guitarist friend nudged me and 
whispered, "Hey, check it out -- he's playing chords!"

If I recall, his M.O. was to play as quietly and lightly as possible, using 
as little finger strength as possible, because: (a) you can -- after all, 
you have a volume knob;  (b) if you get good at playing this way, you can
eventually get both faster and dynamically more consistent than with a 
more traditional touch.

One memorable concert was a duet between him and John Abercrombie (sp?).
It was recorded with the intention of releasing it, but it never made it
to press.   I think Dave was dissatisfied with the playing.   (Notice a
pattern?   This is why you've never heard of the guy.)   I'd give a lot
to get ahold of a copy of that...

My friend said he was something of a jerk, at least toward his students.
(How was he with you, Rory?)   Wasted a lot of lesson time sitting in 
another room smoking dope and drinking, and generally acting real 
disrespectful toward the students.   But he kept studying with him 
because he had such a wealth of information.

A few years ago I started playing Chapman Stick.   I called Creamer a
few times in the hopes of catching some lessons, but he never returned 
my calls.

That's pretty much all I remember...

--Ken Blackman
From: ujwb@uxa.ecn.bgu.edu (Jeff Beer)
Newsgroups: rec.music.bluenote
Subject: Re: braxton & lewis (was: Re: JAZZ TROMBONE)
Date: 13 Oct 92 21:14:12 GMT
Article-I.D.: uxa.Bw2wBp.2pC
Organization: Educational Computing Network

In article <1992Oct13.184204.1383@HQ.Ileaf.COM> anton@HQ.Ileaf.COM (steve norton) writes:
>that's braxton's Composition 23j.  i've got the music--it scares me,
>for sure!  i'm glad someone mentioned Dortmund in this thread: a must
>for anyone interested in modern jazz trombone.  lewis is amazing here.

A friend of mine transcribed it and we performed it in a band.  But the
music  to it is on the duet album with Lindberg.

BTW:  I just purchased the Willisau box.  It is worth it, I think it is
      one of Braxton's best recordings.  Everything is so refined, 
      they are all very comfortable in the music they are playing.
      There is an angular freebop tune dedicated Warne Marsh, original
      Braxton recorded it with a Japanese group.  They do it twice!

      Willisau is a must for Braxton listeners.

Jeff
From: dadoun@cs.ubc.ca (Nou Dadoun)
Newsgroups: rec.music.bluenote
Subject: Re: What Are Cutouts? (was Re: Cutouts and record company economics)
Date: 8 Oct 1992 18:27:47 -0700
Organization: Computer Science, University of B.C., Vancouver, B.C., Canada
Distribution: usa
NNTP-Posting-Host: columbia.cs.ubc.ca

 (william.j.hery) writes:
>The good news for the record companies is that they clean out their
>warehouses and make almost as much on the cuts as on the in-print items
>(because they save on the royalties).

This in several ways is a good (economic) justification for 'deleting' an
item from the catalogue.  One of the rules of the record biz that plays
havoc with the econmics is the issue of 'returns'.  In essence, when a
store  orders something they generally have to pay for it in a certain
period of time (30 days typically) but they can return anything in the
catalogue for credit at any time.

So one way of looking at it is that every unsold recording on the shelf of
your local record store is a  company 'liability', and of course
there's  no real way of telling what the extent of that liability is.  
So that anything that gets reordered on a regular basis is probably 'safe'
but when the orders  aren't regular for a particular item (as for many
'catalogue' jazz sales) there's no way of knowing whether it's simply 
not getting reordered or if there is 1  copy in each of 5000 record stores
across the continent that the company is theoretically responsible for.

So cutting an item out is one way of 'cleaning the pipe', all the returns
for credit  have to  been done by a fixed date, and the company is not
responsible (obliged to give credit) for that item after that  date.

So deleting items and 'reissuing' them a  year  later  can  make some
kind of perverse economic sense.

------------------------------------------------------------------> Nou

====
Nou Dadoun	  	 | ubc-cs!cs.ubc.ca!dadoun | Black Swan Records,
Dpt. of Comp. Sci., UBC, | dadoun@cs.ubc.ca        | 2936 W. 4th Ave.,
Vancouver, BC, V6T 1W5   |-------------------------| Vancouver, BC, V6K 1R2
(604) 822-3065 / 822-5485 [FAX]       | (604) 734-2828 / 734-2899 [FAX]
From: x92gwinnell@gw.wmich.edu
Newsgroups: rec.music.bluenote
Subject: rec.music.bluenote
Date: 12 Oct 92 17:07:12 EST
Summary: Basie and Thad Jones
Reply-To: X92GWINNELL
Followup-To: X92GWINNELL
Keywords: Basie and Thad Jones
Organization: Western Michigan University

Can you recommened any Thad Jones or Basie big band recordings?

Newsgroups: rec.music.bluenote