HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: genetic+@pitt.edu (Dr. Dave)
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
Subject: Re: Here Comes the Bride NOT
Date: 2 Sep 92 17:03:08 GMT
Organization: Department of Industrial Engineering

Thus spake mikefl@hpsad.sad.hp.com (Mike Flaherty):

>In rec.music.classical, jfjr@mbunix.mitre.org (Freedman) writes:

 [request for wedding processional recommendations deleted]

>	Trumpet Voluntary in D (Prince of Denmark march) by Clarke
>	Rondeau from Symphony and Fanfares by Mouret (Masterpiece Theater)
>	Trumpet Tune in D by Purcell
>	Any number of trumpet voluntaries by Stanley

These are all quite heroic in tone, not to say "pompous".  If you're looking
for something a bit more laid back, you might consider something like the Air
(in F) from Haendel's Water Music.  This would make a nice pair with the bit
from the Fireworks music that Mike suggested as a recessional, or you could
pair it with the movement of the Water music whose name always escapes me, 
but which begins (transposed) "C - F - G - A F - G A F G c - ..." (where
lower case denotes higher octave).


-- 
      David M. Tate      | From my dugout sleep I fell into the Game
 dtate@unix.cis.pitt.edu | And I crouched in the circle while my insides froze
 Randall 'Chico' Jarrell | One out from death, one hit from dreamt-of glory
"Death of a Pinch Hitter"| I woke to 'Strike One!' and the nightmare sliders...
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
From: pawel@tethys.ph.albany.edu
Subject: Re: Korngold
Reply-To: pawel@tethys.ph.albany.edu
Organization: SUNYA School of Public Health, Albany, NY
Date: Mon, 31 Aug 92 18:25:21 GMT

In article <1992Aug31.155335.16991@CSD-NewsHost.Stanford.EDU>, spg@Xenon.Stanford.EDU (Stephen P. Guthrie) writes:
>I have heard that Korngold was a child prodigy acclaimed by Strauss, Mahler
>and Schoenberg. I know he worked for Hollywood after being forced to flee
>from the Nazis, but did he ever realize his potential with 'serious' music.
>I have heard his violin concerto but nothing else. There are some recordings
  ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>of orchestral music out there (eg. symphony, sinfonietta) and also some
>chamber works and operas (Die Tote Stadt). Are any of these of interest
>or are they second rate works?
>
>
  Was it good ?  P. Penczek
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
Subject: Re: Bottom ten operas
From: Ken Sherrill <KSSHC@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Date: Friday, 28 Aug 1992 14:45:53 EDT
Organization: City University of New York/ University Computer Center

Add Arabella, Sonnambula,and Puritani  to my ten worst list as well! It may
take me another year or so of listening to Semiramide to move it from my faves
to the pits. I just get a huge kick out of it.

I don't think Jon Conrad and I truly disagree about the standard. "I just don't
like it" often equates with "You can do something much better."  It is true
that we can respect works we don't like. I doubt, however, that we would advo-
cate investing artistic capital in either.
From: simona@panix.com (Simona Nass)
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
Subject: Re: Glenn Gould Festival 1992
Keywords: Glenn Gould, piano, concerts, lectures
Date: 28 Aug 92 18:49:45 GMT
Organization: PANIX Public Access Unix, NYC

There are also a few things happening in New York on or about October 10,
but I don't have the details with me now. I'll try to remember to post
information. -S.
-- 
        Alumni of Stuyvesant HS of New York: e-mail stuy@panix.com
    if you wish to participate in compiling an alumni e-mail directory
---------  simona@panix.com    or    {apple,cmcl2}!panix!simona  ----------
Disclaimer: I am not an attorney, though I do have an opinion on everything.
From: art30248@nusunix3.nus.sg (NG LING LING)
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
Subject: viola music
Date: 26 Aug 92 09:28:40 GMT
Organization: National University of Singapore

Hello, everyone, from sunny Singapore. 
Just read the note on the Bach Cello Suites played on the viola. That
was interesting, I never expected anyone to bother, especially not in
1959++. But I've always had to take some sthick from cellists who say
the transcription for us violists makes what actually is a tough work
easy. Oh well, I still think that they're still musically
(interpretation) tough. 

Anyhow, I was also wondering: which edition (for viola) is good ? I use
a British (Chester) edition with W. Forbes as the editor. Don't like his
bowings...anyone know any else ?

Also, are there any recordings (on major labels) of the 2 Brahms op.120
sonatas for viola & piano ? The reason I say major labels is because
here in Singapore, we only get the big labels...DG, EMI, Decca, Philips,



 
RCA etc. so smaller labels will be too hard tot  find
And also, better still if they're on CD.
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
From: henwe@sssab.se (Henric Weyde)
Subject: Re: clarinet arcana and transposition
Posting-Front-End: Winix Conference v 92.05.15  1.20 (running under MS-Windows)
Date: Mon, 31 Aug 1992 11:02:05 GMT

In article <CB.92Aug26153129@tamarack13.timbuk>, cb@tamarack13.timbuk (Chris Brewster) writes:

>Dave Golber writes:
>
>   Stravinsky's _The History of a Soldier_ ...
>
>Beware the misleading cognate.  The standard translation of the title
>"L'Histoire du Soldat" is "The Soldier's Tale" and that's correct.  "Le
>Conte du Soldat" might have prevented confusion, though with perhaps the
>wrong shading.  Also, I've heard "Pavane pour une Infante Defeunte"
>translated as "Pavane for a Dead Infant", though fortunately it has
>become known, correctly, as Pavane for a Dead Princess.
>
Curiosity information: "Infante" is the official title of a royal
Spanish princess. By the way "Elephant and Castle" the roundabout south 
of the Thames in London actually comes from "L'Infante de Castille".

/Best regards Henric Weyde

henwe@sssab.se, Scandinavian System Support AB, Linkoeping, Sweden  

Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
From: meyer@uuisis.isis.org (Katherine Meyer)
Subject: Re: clarinet arcana and the basset-clarinet
Organization: International Shared Information Service (Ottawa)
Date: Sun, 30 Aug 92 14:22:56 GMT

From previous quote:
and c.  Stadler had an A clarinet made as well with these four extra notes.
The instrument does not appear to have been propogated and no example survives,
but it served a great purpose in stimulating Mozart to write his superbly 
beautiful Quintet K. 581 in 1789 and the Concerto K.622 in 1791.

My closing statemet:
There are a variety of recordings of the Mozart Clarinet Concerto with
basset-clarinet, including one by Antony Pay with Christopher Hogwood
and the Academy of Ancient Instruments.
======================
How is the Clarinet Concerto performed on basset-clarinets today if no  
examples survive?  
Some clarinet players have had "basset-clarinets" with the range, that
is attributed to Stadler's instrument custom built.

At the end of his article Hacker describes how his basset clarinet was built 
quote:
     My basset-clarinet in A was constructed by the clarinetist and maker
   Edward Planas of Iver Heath, Bucks.  I provided him with a Boehm system A 
   clarinet of late 19th-century design made by Albert.  After filling up the
   cone at the lower end of the instrument he continued the lower joint a 
   further 17 cms by jointing and gluing another section of wood to the 
   existing clarinet.  Having relocated the lowest hole of the original 
   joint, he drilled four more holes in the new section, reproduced the cone
   in the bore of the lengthened joint and fitted the bell.  The four holes, 
   which are closed by open standing keys, are operated by four touchpieces 
   under the right hand thumb.  He has recently added an extra right-hand low
   E flat touch piece.  Our instrument appeats to by similar to the one made by
   Rudolph Trebal of Prague in 1951; that however is a German system model, and
   Trebal mounted and drilled the basset keys behind the instrument.
     It should be noted tha the extra length of the basset clarinet gives the
   whole compass of the instrument a darker quality than the normal length A
   clarinet; and this aspect alters the character of the concerto as much as 
   the restoration on the basset notes.  
   End of Quote

Katherine
MEYER@UUISIS.ISIS.ORG

Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
From: dbarker@spang.Camosun.BC.CA (Deryk Barker)
Subject: Re: Sergiu Celibidache
Organization: Camosun College, Victoria BC, Canada
Date: Wed, 2 Sep 1992 18:05:30 GMT

In article <CB.92Aug31115103@tamarack13.timbuk> cb@tamarack13.timbuk (Chris Brewster) writes:
>
>I've been interested in Celibidache mainly because of his reputation.
>(His uncompromising image always makes his name look to me like a
>cognate of "celibate", though I doubt his asceticism goes in that
>direction.)  So what recordings *do* exist, to give us a sense of why
>he's so revered?

Hardly any. he had a dreadful experience recording the Brahms Violin
Concerto (with Ida Haendel) in around 1956 for SMI I think, and vowed
never to return to the studio again, and I don't believe he has. There
are a fair number of 'pirate' live recordings around. The set of
Brahms Symphonies with the RAI Turin (?) orchestra from around 1959/60
is 'interesting', but shows that even *he* couldn't get every
orchestra to play well. You can almost hear his fury with the
incompetent tympanist who screws up the opening of the First. Shortly
after this he and the orchestra parted on less than amicable terms.

I have a recording, somewhere, taped off-air of a Bruckner 5 he did
with the South German Radio O (?) his regular ensemble. It is superb.
SC's 'problem' is that he demands far more rehearsals than is cutomary
in this day of the jet-setting international 'celebrity' conductor
(HvK did I hear anyone cry?).

Deryk Barker, Computer Science Dept., Camosun College, Victoria B.C.
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
From: mikulska@crux.Princeton.EDU (Margaret Mikulska)
Subject: Re: Winterreise
Originator: news@nimaster
Reply-To: mikulska@astro.princeton.edu (Margaret Mikulska)
Organization: Princeton University
Date: Tue, 1 Sep 1992 21:13:35 GMT

In article <1992Sep1.200220.1087@mintaka.lcs.mit.edu> wchsieh@beethoven.lcs.mit.edu (Wilson Hsieh) writes:
>In article <1992Aug26.205043.11128@fid.morgan.com>, steve@fid.morgan.com (Steve Apter) writes:
>|> 
>|> I'd welcome pointers to other performances, opinions, observations,
>|> whatever.  [of Winterreise]
>
>There is always the Fischer-Dieskau recording; unfortunately, I can't
>remember the pianist's name.  Ah, the onset of old age...

Recording*s* - he recorded it several times:

* with Gerald Moore (more than once) - EMI, DG
* with Joerg Demus - DG (I'm almost sure there was a Winterreise with
  Demus, among other songs or cycles)
* with Alfred Brendel - Philips

The ones with Moore are regarded as classics.  Demus isn't as good, I'm
not even sure those are on CDs.  The recording with Brendel is
relatively new: Brendel is very good, but F-D isn't at his best any
more.

Old age?  You must be young if you remember only one recording of
Winterreise with F-D :-)

-Margaret

Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
From: inr@eccles.caltech.edu (I. Neill Reid)
Subject: re: Sibelius 2nd symphony
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41    
Organization: California Institute of Technology
Date: Fri, 4 Sep 1992 09:01:00 GMT

>From: jefrank@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (Jason E Frank)

>Has anyone out there had a chance to listen to Blomstedt/San
>Francisco Symphony's reading of Sibelius Symphony #2, Tapiola,
>and Valse Triste?  I'm in the market for a "thinking-person's"
>Sibelius' 2nd (as opposed to such meat-and-potatoes versions
>as Levi/Cleveland on Telarc), and was wondering what people
>thought.
>--jason

 Not quite to the point, since I haven't heard the above - although
based on his Nielsen it should be good. 
 But for the "thinking person's" Sibelius 2 :
  1) Beecham on EMI (with Dvorak's 8th)
  2) Gibson + SNO on Chandos Collect (my personal favourite - 
 when the SNO was growing up with Gibson you always knew that the
 Sibelius would be well eprformed - even if it meant not spending 
 enough time rehearsing the rest of the concert
  3) Rattle + CBSO (I think) again on EMI
  4) Davis + Boston SO and I've forgotten the label
  5) Ashkenazi + Philharmonia (I think) on Decca (probably)

 Neill Reid    inr@eccles.caltech.edu
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
From: spg@Xenon.Stanford.EDU (Stephen P. Guthrie)
Subject: Korngold
Originator: spg@Xenon.Stanford.EDU
Organization: Computer Science Department, Stanford University.
Date: Mon, 31 Aug 1992 15:53:35 GMT

I have heard that Korngold was a child prodigy acclaimed by Strauss, Mahler
and Schoenberg. I know he worked for Hollywood after being forced to flee
from the Nazis, but did he ever realize his potential with 'serious' music.
I have heard his violin concerto but nothing else. There are some recordings
of orchestral music out there (eg. symphony, sinfonietta) and also some
chamber works and operas (Die Tote Stadt). Are any of these of interest
or are they second rate works?
From: maverick@mahogany.CS.Berkeley.EDU (Vance Maverick)
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
Subject: Re: Enough about Cage, what about Partch?
Date: 25 Aug 1992 17:16:37 GMT
Organization: CS Division, UC Berkeley
NNTP-Posting-Host: mahogany.cs.berkeley.edu

In article <1992Aug25.163149.3589@viewlogic.com> brad@buck.viewlogic.com (Bradford Kellogg) writes:
>Yes, I'm talking about Harry Partch. 
>
>He doesn't prepare existing instruments, he designs and constructs his own.
>Then he composes music for them, and performs it, sometimes singing along.
>
>It's really quite remarkable. 

Partch is one of the great American visionary cranks.  I admire him,
and I'm happy to own his book _Genesis of a Music_ (recommended for
tuning fiends); I'm very glad he persisted in doing what he did, and
glad he was finally rewarded with a little recognition late in life;
but when I get right down to it, I don't get a lot out of his music.
I hear a lack of the musical invention he would have needed to turn
his abundance of instrument-building ideas to good use -- unlike
what's-his-name with the prepared pianos.

Did Danlee Mitchell or any of the other Partchians ever do any new
music on Partch's instruments?

	Vance
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
From: erwin@helsinki.ks.uiuc.edu (Edgar Erwin)
Subject: Le Grand Macabre
Organization: University of Illinois at Urbana
Date: Thu, 27 Aug 1992 22:55:10 GMT

Evelyn C. Leeper mentions
.......
> Ligeti, G.				"Le Grand Macabre"

Anyone have any opinions on this opera?  A book I recently read called this  
Ligeti's masterpiece. (Maybe it was David Cope's book.)  Anyone agree?  I like  
Ligeti, so I've been considering buying a recording of this opera, but opera  
isn't cheap, so I'd like recommendations.

Ed erwin@lisboa.ks.uiuc.edu
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
Subject: forthcoming Michelangeli recitals?
From: Marco Simionato <simion@iveuncc.unive.it>
Date: 1 Sep 92 12:38:04 +0100
Distribution: world
Organization: University of Venezia (Italy)
X-UserAgent: Nuntius v1.1.1d9X-XXDate: Tue, 1 Sep 92 12:38:45 GMTLines: 7

As some of you might know, pianist Benedetti Michelangeli
never annonunces his recitals quite in advance.
I would be grateful if anybody who knows about rumored recitals/
concerts could let me know.
Please reply DIRECTLY. Thanks.

Marco Simionato
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
From: eric <eschramm@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu>
Subject: Re: bottom ten operas
Organization: The Ohio State University
Date: Mon, 31 Aug 1992 21:56:48 GMT



mikulska@crux.Princeton.EDU (Margaret Mikulska) asks:

>For me, a more interesting psychological question is: Why would anybody
>start a thread about music s/he *dis*likes most?  Why even bother 
>thinking about works one doesn't like (and some other people do)?

Because opera is a blood sport, that's why. Pass the tomatoes. 


Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
From: meyer@uuisis.isis.org (Katherine Meyer)
Subject: re: clarinet arcana
Organization: International Shared Information Service (Ottawa)
Date: Fri, 28 Aug 92 02:28:50 GMT



> From: haynes@cats.ucsc.edu (Jim Haynes)
> 
> 
>  Well, the two instruments (at least my two) have rather different 
> tone-colours : the A is darker and more mellow, the Bb has the brighter, 
> more demanding-sit-up-and-listen-to-me tone - compare the Mozart concerto
> against either of the Weber concerti, or the Mozart/Weber quintets. 
I think that the most noticeable difference today is the timbre of the two
insttruments.  My A is also much more mellow and darker than my Bb.  Its
especially noticeable in the lower register, although an unaccustomed
listner might not notice the difference unless he realizes that a switch is
occuring (as in orchestral pieces).  Actually the Mozart Clarinet concerto
sounds really nice on the Bass horn (originally written for Basset horn,
Anton Stadler) since it has a much darker and mellower sound.  

> 
> >I remember someone once had a C saxophone, and I was told the rationale
> >for its existence was not the need for an instrument in between the
> >alto and tenor saxes, but rather than it could play parts written for
> >piano without transposing.
> 
Actually, transposing for A clarinet on the Bb instrument was initially
much more challenging at first because I had to transpose my (Clarinet) part
down a semi-tone.  Transposing upwards ie. playing parts for C-Clarinet or
D- parts etc, is much easier (at least I.M.H.O).  
>  and there's that too
> 
> >-- 
> >haynes@cats.ucsc.edu
> 
>  Neill Reid  - inr@eccles.caltech.edu
> 

Katherine
MEYER@UUISIS.ISIS.ORG
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
From: steve@fid.morgan.com (Steve Apter)
Subject: Re: John Cage is Dead
Organization: Morgan Stanley & Co., New York, NY
Date: Wed, 26 Aug 1992 17:16:34 GMT

In article <1992Aug26.135214.16150@dcs.glasgow.ac.uk> jack@dcs.glasgow.ac.uk (Jack Campin) writes:
>steve@fid.morgan.com (Steve Apter) wrote:
>[about Cardew]
>> Did I say he "believed in genocide"?  I said he was a maoist, and you
>> agreed.  Please point me to a version of this vicious doctrine which 
>> does not advocate mass murder and thought-reform.  As practiced by Pol 
>> Pot, perhaps?
>
>Um, sorry, but Pol Pot wasn't a Maoist and the Khmer Rouge's ideology owed
>exactly zip to any institutional version of Marxism... 

Ideology is irrelevant.

							it was a kind of
>neo-mediaeval peasant-insurrectionism grafted onto the economics of Samir
>Amin... so trying to stick this one on Cardew is more than a little off
>target...

The flourish was rhetorical.  I am supremely indifferent to details 
concerning inter-factional disputes on the left.  Meanwhile, you've
raised quite a bit of dust to obscure the point of what I wrote, which
was that I never accused CC of believing in genocide.  I have no
evidence that he believed that races or nations should be exterminated.
Re-read, carefully this time.

>> Point me in the direction of writings which contradict my claim that
>> he was a maoist, and hence an advocate of suppression, thought-reform,
>> and ideological control of free creative activity.
>
>And point me in the direction of writings which contradict my claim that
>Ives, Barber, Sessions and Copland were American republicrats, and hence
>advocates of the invasion of the Philippines, the bombing of Hiroshima, the
>My Lai massacre, the CIA's overthrow of Arbenz and Allende, and the
>invasions of Lebanon, Santo Domingo and Grenada... in fact I have no reason
>to believe any of them carry any personal responsibility for any of the
>revolting barbarities carried out by the people they unthinkingly
>supported.  It might have been preferable if some of them had thought a
>little harder about what they were voting for but the sort of hysteria
>Steve is pushing is hardly called for.  If they'd written victory marches
>for Pinochet or songs in praise of the Green Berets, that would be
>different; but Cardew never wrote the Maoist analogue, either.

Please read the article of CC's I cited.  Pay special attention to the
last several pages, wherein Cardew calls for an end to "formalist
garbage", and sounds the trumpet for a "people's music", presumably
of the sort you deride, presumably overseen by committees consisting
of the politically enlightened.

>
>-- 
>--  Jack Campin    room G092, Computing Science Department, Glasgow University,
>17 Lilybank Gardens, Glasgow G12 8RZ, Scotland   TEL: 041 339 8855 x6854 (work)
>INTERNET: jack@dcs.glasgow.ac.uk or via nsfnet-relay.ac.uk    FAX: 041 330 4913
>BANG!net: via mcsun and uknet     BITNET: via UKACRL    UUCP: jack@glasgow.uucp
From: mvalinis@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (Michael J Valinis)
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
Subject: RE: Beethoven/Bach undervalued
Date: 2 Sep 92 17:49:58 GMT
Article-I.D.: magnus.1992Sep2.174958.17194
Organization: The Ohio State University

Pardon me for not quoting all the previous arguements in this thread.  Was Bach
better?  Beethoven better?  Better than what, and by whose standards?  As a 
matter of interest, the local PBS station here held a greatest composers poll a
few years back;  in first place...... Josquin Desprez.  Now THAT shows a depth 
of perspective that I wouldn't have expected from a random radio audience.  You
want innovation, technical brilliance, sublimity?  Listen to a few motets by 
Josquin, and realise that you are listening to genius!  BTW, I like Beethoven &
Bach, too -- they placed pretty high up in the aforementioned poll.  :-)
-- 
=>   Michael J. Valinis   -=+{*}+=-   mvalinis@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu   <=
+>=> "Censorship ends in logical completeness when nobody is allowed to  <=<+
=>+>=> read any books except the books nobody can read."  - G. B. Shaw <=<+<=
+>=>+>=>+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+<=<+<=<+
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
From: diarmuid@uniwa.uwa.edu.au (Diarmuid Pigott)
Subject: Re: How can I have missed these?
Organization: University of Western Australia
Date: Fri, 28 Aug 1992 03:17:08 GMT

danielh@sequent.com (Daniel Hobbs) writes:
: Brahms sexual perversions as revealed in the key signatures of his lieder,
: secret mathematical codes in the fourth lines of Renaissance madrigals 
: written by composers whose last names start with Q

How can I have missed these threads?
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
From: mccomt@aix.rpi.edu (Todd M. Mccomb)
Subject: Re: A Brahms Contrarion - a few corrections
Organization: Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute, Troy, NY
Date: Sat, 29 Aug 1992 14:50:08 GMT

In article <1992Aug29.005732.9575@credence.com> Jeff Winslow writes:
>Whatsamatter with you guys anyway, even *talking* about Brahms puts you
>to sleep or something? :-)

We knew what you meant.

T. M. McComb

Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
From: diarmuid@uniwa.uwa.edu.au (Diarmuid Pigott)
Subject: Re: Cardew and "people's music"
Organization: University of Western Australia
Date: Mon, 31 Aug 1992 05:55:02 GMT

jack@dcs.glasgow.ac.uk (Jack Campin) writes:
: Well, the US has got Howard Hanson, Walter Piston, Samuel Barber, William
: Schuman, Vittorio Giannini, and a whole bunch of similar hacks who sound
: pretty near indistinguishable from Khrennikov and Schchedrin and who are
: played by the major orchestras solely because of their similar
: acceptability to a bureaucratic establishment.  That's what I meant, not
: that the specific works would be the same.  And I would expect 19th-century
: warhorses to be similarly over-represented in both cultures.

I don't want to insult or anything, but doesn't that say more about your
critical apparatus? "The Carmen Ballet" does not sound like "Medea". 
"Not Love Alone" does not sound like "Andromache's farewell".
Khrenikov's Opus 9 is in no way like Barber's first. 
 I can think of not equivalent for "Hermit Songs" or "Dover Beach amongst
their output. What do you mean? A thousand eager eyes await your reply.

: Are there even empirical studies of *American* concert programming that
: address this sort of question?

Yes - one was reported on the net just a while back. The American
Symphonic something or other publishes a regular survey - I remember
being surprise because Sibelius came out top, despite the Mozart
brouhaha.

Newsgroups: rec.music.classical