From: aforum@moose.uvm.edu (Autonome Forum)
Subject: AF/ATS: IWW interview with Guatemalan labor leader
Organization: University of Vermont -- Division of EMBA Computer Facility
Date: Mon, 16 Nov 1992 05:03:03 GMT

subject: IWW interview with Guatemalan labor leader
posted by: AF/ATS
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INDUSTRIAL WORKER INTERVIEWS GUATEMALAN LABOR LEADER

IW: First of all, I'd like to welcome you to Burlington.  The IWW
gives tremendous solidarity to the struggle going on in
Guatemala.  I know that the IWW has been involved in many
protests against Van Heusen.  What can we do to increase the
struggle for the benefit of you?

RD: I return the warm welcome on behalf of Guatemalan workers and
specifically on behalf of my union, the Union of Workers of
International Export of Guatemala.
   In Guatemala, the human rights are not respected.  Nor the
right to organize yourself freely, nor the labor laws or labor
rights.  One thing you can do is put pressure on the government
to ask the President of Guatemala to respect the right of free
organization in the factories so that we have the freedom to
organize ourselves because the most basic thing is that it is
difficult even to organize and without organizing we cannot
improve the quality of living.
   The pressure against being able to organize is compounded by
the presence of Korean and other foreign factories that are
employing child labor for periods of time, more hours per day
than what is legally allowed.  But they are able to do it and
they have been contracting youths between twelve and fifteen
years old.  They have fear of being fired since they have no
rights.  They have no labor rights because they are mminors.  At
the same time they are undercutting the union's ability to
organize due to the availability of that labor.

IW: Do you feel personally as an organizer that there is the
possibility of repression or of extreme acts of violence against
you for speaking out?

RD: Yes, we've had threats.

IW: I don't know your familiarity with the IWW as a labor union
that keeps on struggling to really stand up for the workers but
Judi Bari was pipe bombed in an assassination attempt a couple of
years ago for speaking out for the union and for anarcho-
syndicalism and I wonder if you may see that as a possibility
toward yourself or other people in the movement.  We see, as
radical union organizers in this country that if we speak out,
even against the unions here as a union organizer, that we're in
a lot of trouble.

RD: You speak out against corrupt unions here?

IW: We speak out against corrupt unions, corrupt syndicalism, yes.

RD: So you want to know if I feel that there is some kind of a
threat there?

IW: The labor movement in this country and the unions are
basically co-opted by business and how do you feel about that, I
mean is there anything that you can tell people that are really
talking about the labor struggle in this country against the
coruptness of unions.  I mean we have unions here but they're not
unions to represent the working class.

RD: You're right, it's a very difficult question.  From my point
of view, it seems that the real pressure has dropped in this
country.  They've lost the perspective of what is the struggle. 
I think that this is due to partial victories in asking, for
example, for increases in wages and by only focussing on
increases in wages, they've lost the greater perspective of what
a working class struggle is and therefore, overall pressure has
dropped.  Also in Guatemala it exists that you have unions and
worker's organizations that supposedly represent the interests of
workers and yet they're basically very conservative in that
respect. They fight for material well-being, one aspect of the
working class, but have lost a working class perspective.  But in
our case, we can't forget about these other unions in that we
always invite them to meetings and keep up the pressure on them
so they don't forget what the worker's struggle really is.

IW: What do you think the worker's struggle should mean in this
day and age?

RD:  I believe that we as workers need to find our points in
common.  We need to find the ropes that bind us so that we can be
united because if not, we continue the struggle ununited and
every day the government and the factory owners get stronger. 
Never fall into the error of thinking that just because we have
achieved an increase in wages or a better post, that we cease to
be workers.  We are always workers and we must remain united.

IW: Yes, and that's very important for us to understand.  In this
country some of our struggles that have been won have been based
upon 8-hour work days and there have been tremendous struggles to
get that but in the interim people, it seems, have forgotten what
the struggle really is about, which to some of us is the
abolition of wage slavery.  That we don't need to work for
masters, that we need to work for ourselves and the community.

RD:  Expanding on that, you did gain that many years ago but in
my country that is a recent gain, the 8-hour work day, in that it
is so much more near the surface.  I have only been in the labor
movement a few years but many people have given up their lives
just for the 8-hour work day.  Women have given up their lives so
that they would only have to sew in the shops 8 and not 12 hours
per day.  Relating that to what you said about losing the wider
perspective, we have to fight for these things but never lose the
perspective of the wider struggle.

IW: What is a woman's role as a worker in Gatemala?

RD: In the factories, they give heavier work to men and they give
the textile work to women, not because they're going to pay them
more or anything of the sort, there's a constant discrimination
against women there.  They give this work to women because
they're "more dextrous with their fingers" and they're cleaner so
it works better in the clothing and garment business.  There is
sexual harassment by mid-level managers and it is constant.  Many
times there are sexual propositions by these men and if a woman
does not accept, he can change her position or even fire her and
literally isolate her from where she's working.  But as women,
now that we're involved in this labor struggle, we know that we
have rights, just as men would have rights.  And we are able to
take many of these positions.

IW:  Do the women in the labor movement feel there is equality
between the sexes?

RD: Generally in the labor movement there is discrimination.  The
men are more agressive and are trying to get ahead.  Within my
union, since the vast majority of the employees in these
factories are women, the vast majority of people in the union are
women and it is more egalitarian.  But this is by exclusion,
nothing else.  The fact that we are in a position in which we are
organized and we have been recognized as a union in our factory
did not come softly.  It took three years of heavy fighting, of
being on strike, constructing shanty towns, marches, of
incredible pressure.

IW: What is the next phase in the struggle?

RD: For us in our factory or generally the labor movement?

IW: For you in your factory and then it can be expanded to the
whole labor movement.

RD: There is much work to be done.  The very first thing is to
prepare to educate the rest of the workers in case of a time when
the present leaders are not there, whether they're not alive or
they're just not there.  Teach them, why is there a labor
movement?  Teach them, what are our rights.  Given that the vast
majority of Guatemalans have never had a formal education and
have never been to school, we must insure that they know what
human rights are.  We must negotiate another collective, enter
another collective bargaining process in '93.  We have a project
all ready for childcare and we're going to push for its
implementation.  We want a literacy program within the factory to
teach people how to read and write.  The primary thing is to
educate to prepare people to take over the leadership positions
because, regardless of whether they're there or not, every two
years the directive has to turn over by our own internal laws.
   We're doing this so that what happened here doesn't happen
there, that we don't forget why we're struggling, so that the
workers don't get to a point where they've gotten the most basic
of what they wanted; job security, decent wages, an 8-hour work
day and they just drop the rest.

IW: And they've forgotten about the rest of the struggle.  What
about the environmental quality?  What is happening in Guatemala
with the environment at this point and how does it relate to the
worker's struggle?

RD:  One thing is, we use a great quantity of dyes and bleach,
both of which affect the skin and which are generally disposed
of--not even in the water system--they're just thrown out.  So
there's a terrible situation around the factories because they're
just throwing the stuff out.  Some does get into the ground water
and some is just thrown onto dry ground.

IW: Is there any message that you would like to get to the real
rank and file worker?

RD: The first thing is that my being here is not about me or my
union but about all workers in Guatemala.  We're struggling for a
real peace and that means that they have to respect us as
workers. I would ask for the solidarity of the North American
worker because solidarity is extremely important between workers
here and workers there.  They should not forget us as workers and
we should not forget them as workers.

IW: I would like to know if there have been any slow-downs or
sabotage happening on the job or if there is direct action to
exert pressure.

RD: We've gone for the legal path of trying to recognize the
rights that we have and to push that to gain more rights because
to sabotage the plants with all the problems would mean more
unemployment and the situation there is so bad that we've decided
to go the legal routes.  Pressures have been put on the owners
through concentrations of workers, by marches, by worker's
meetings which is a tactic used where we call people out and have
actual worker's meetings.  Also the construction of shanty towns
and the occupation of the central plaza.  We had one five-day
march that went through the country.  These are the tactics we
are using to exert pressure.

   This interview was taped by Wobbly organizer Orin Langelle
with Rosa Delia Galicia Lopez, a labor leader from Guatemala in
October, 1992.      

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