HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: sieh@panix.com (Twinkie Chinkie)
Subject: Re: Looking for roots
Date: Sat, 26 Sep 1992 06:13:39 GMT
Organization: PANIX Public Access Unix & Internet, NYC

In article <1992Sep24.203610.23730@ee.gatech.edu> wung@ee.gatech.edu writes:
>>[my comments about his question on how people felt when visiting the land of
>>their ancestors etc deleted]
>There is absolutely no attempt at trying to make this a "USEFUL" question.

I never expected a reply to my comments but I'm in a mood tonight.  Whenever,
a question is posed, there is always a purpose behind it is there not?  Be it,
for information purposes, clarification purposes or whatever, the posed 
question is used for some goal/purpose.  I think asking questions without
thought or purpose to be an incredible waste of time.  I'm just being blunt
and I have no intention of flaming you.  Just stating my thoughts.

>Travel is certainly an exciting part of anyone's life, especially when
>one travels to a country where one already has a connection to the local 
>culture.  An added reason for the interest of any americans of any 
>origin is that there is a possibility of discovering certain things about
>their parents or grandparents that may be helpful in their own search 
>for identity.  

Absolutely true.  For people who live a life of "dual culture", visiting the
place/country where one half of their culture comes from is very exciting and
"educational".  I think people who visit the land of their parents (or 
grandparents etc) often come away with a greater understanding of their 
identity.

>I am by no means suggesting that everyone should have an
>obligation to go to visit the "old country", as you so derisively put it.

I didn't assume that you did.  I think to do so is a bit presumptious on the
person suggesting such a thing.  I am curious as to your reading of the term
"old country" as negative.  For one, I put quotations around it.  Secondly,
to call the land of one's ancestors in those terms is long practiced in history
texts.  For one, consider the relative youth of America to the rest of the
world, and you will see how everything else is "old" by comparison.  There was
no judgement value intended on my part in the term "old country".

>I believe that people have a need to look within to find out things about
>themselves, many people seek to do this by looking at their parents past,
>many seek to look for it in where they are, no beef there.  My only 
>intention is to start some people talking about something other than
>chinese-cu and Dwight Joe sucks.  If that is alright with you.

Sure.  No need my permission.  My views/thoughts/ideas are just as "useful"
as the next person's.... :-)

//Twinkie Chinkie

ps-don't be so defensive.  If I were to target you, it would be very clear
in my post.  I don't usually mince my words when it comes to that.



-- 
//Lui Sieh
Dum loquimur, fugerit invida Aetas: carpe diem, quam minimum postero.  
Horace, Odes, I.xi.7;	<-- "Why post to USENET?" -Brian O.  Indeed.
What about my opinions?   ====>>   /dev/null     or    sieh@panix.com 
Newsgroups: soc.culture.asian.american
From: gwu@nujoizey.tcs.com (George Wu)
Subject: Re: Genetic question misunderstood
Organization: Teknekron Communications Systems Inc.
Date: Tue, 29 Sep 1992 04:09:52 GMT

In article <1992Sep27.195527.14789@seas.gwu.edu>, claypool@seas.gwu.edu (Hyok H. Lee) writes:
> 
> I think you are wrong.  The prospect of playing professional sports is
> almost every boy's dream.  If you were to ask a group of boys what they
> wanted to be when they grew up, I'll bet almost half would say football
> player.  The reason there are  more blacks in the NBA is because they are
> the best players, not because whites chose not play.  

     Lots of those white kids give up those dreams because their folks
tell them it's "impractical" and they'll never make a living that way.
To lots of blacks, children and adults, the *only* chance to get out of
the ghetto appears to be that of entertainer (professional athlete,
musician, etc.).

     What you're trying to prove, that one racial group has a genetic
edge, requires a scientific study.  Anecdotal observations of the NBA
does not qualify as such.  (What's your control group?)

     Personally, I think it's entirely possible one racial group or
another may average slightly below or above another racial group for
some particular characteristic.  But I haven't seen any studies proving
any such contention as fact.  (I'm also eager that no such study occur,
as someone would surely distort and abuse such information.)

     If such a thing were proven, there'd still be damn few people who
could truthfully claim "I'm better at XXX because I'm AAA and you're
BBB."  Such a person would also be able to say "I'm better at XXX because
I'm better than everyone, AAA or BBB."

							George, a UUU

----
George J Wu, Software Engineer         | gwu@tcs.com or uunet!tcs!gwu
Teknekron Communications Systems, Inc. | (510) 649-3700
2121 Allston Way, Berkeley, CA, 94704  | Never be the first to believe . . .
Xref: sparky soc.culture.asian.american:9317 soc.culture.asean:6530 soc.culture.korean:4598
From: phs431d@vaxc.cc.monash.edu.au
Newsgroups: soc.culture.asian.american,soc.culture.asean,soc.culture.korean
Subject: Re: Have no need to fear ... was Re: Freedom of Speech
Date: 1 Oct 92 17:48:34 +1000
Organization: Monash University - Melbourne. Australia.

In article <1992Sep28.205957.15097@leland.Stanford.EDU>, underdog@leland.Stanford.EDU (Dwight Joe) writes:

> In article <lcedbuINN19k@jethro.Corp.Sun.COM>
> melindac@thedarktower.Corp.Sun.COM (Calling Dr. Nordstrom ...) writes:
>>	Me: 	
>>	> Then how do you explain those of us who grew up in a Chinese 
>>	> family who didn't suffer any of those things? Obviously the 
>>	> actions you've listed cannot be attributed solely to Chinese society.
>>	underdog@leland.Stanford.EDU (Dwight Joe) :
>>	> As Mr. James Pak (jpak@oakhill.mot.sps.com) pointed out, a 
>>	> behavior or action does not need to be exercised by everyone in 
>>	> a particular cultural group in order for that behavior to be 
>>	> considered part of that cultural group. "whipping with a belt" or 
>>	> equivalent actions is everyday ordinary behavior in Chinese-cu 
>>	> society.
>>You have yet to prove that it is "everyday ordinary behavior in Chinese-cu
>>society."

> You have yet to prove that it isn't.

>>I contend that it is not. 
>>	Melinda

> I contend that it is.

Dwight, this is not good enough.  Since your view is obviously the MINORITY
view on this network (obvious from the few who support you) then THE ONUS
is on YOU to come up with verifiable proof for the rest of us (the
majority) to examine.  

> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Seikatsu no imi wa nan desu ka.            \|  |`      | Don't buy from Toyota;
> Shitte itara oshiete kuremasen ka.          | -+-      | especially, don't buy
>                                            /| / \      | from Capitol Toyota in
> Copyright 1992.                 Disclaimer:  1 + 1 = 3 | San Jose, California.
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------

-- 
Don Lowe, Department of Physics, Monash University, 
Melbourne, Victoria, Australia, 3168.
[Standard Disclaimer]
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Newsgroups: soc.culture.asian.american
From: underdog@leland.Stanford.EDU (Dwight Joe)
Subject: Re: Interracial Dating FAQ (was Re: Montel Williams Show)
Organization: Miners for a Heart of Gold
Date: Sat, 3 Oct 92 06:16:50 GMT

In article <BvJ3B0.2CI@rice.edu> kerryg@stat.rice.edu (Kerry Go) writes:
>In article <1992Oct2.230900.16949@leland.Stanford.EDU>
>underdog@leland.Stanford.EDU (Dwight Joe) writes:
>>>...
>>>However, this objection is enormously over-played, simply because
>>>the generally-accepted racist myth in the US is that anyone who's
>>>"Oriental-looking" is a foreigner or recent immigrant who clings to
>>>some mystic notion of "Oriental culture" ...
>>What is bizzare is that there is common ground among Chinese-cu,
>>rednecks, Klansmen, and Nazis.
>Why is this bizarre?  There is common ground between *any* two people.
>Realizing this may inject some compassion into some people.  Even Klansmen
>love their families...and probably have many of the same concerns we all
>do.  So say a prayer for a Chinese-cu, too.

"Bizarre" should have been in quotes.  This particular bit of
bigotry is "bizarre" to most people who did not notice that Chinese-cu
and rednecks (Klansmen, Nazis) share exactly the same bigotry.

Before I appeared on s.c.a.a., I doubt that anyone (specifically,
Chinese-cu on s.c.a.a.) pointed out the common ground of bigotry
between Chinese-cu and rednecks.  Many Asian-Americans are taught
that it's just the rednecks who think that the USA is not the "true"
home of Asian-Americans.  In reality, it ain't just the rednecks;
many--very many--Chinese-cu think that the "true" home of Asian-Americans
is someplace in Asia (!).

Remember!  Two rednecks killed Vincent Chin, an Asian-American.
But a couple of Chinese-cu thugs hired by the Chinese-cu gov't killed
an Asian-American reporter in California.

(I hear a lot of justifiable indignation about the first travesty,
but the silence on the second matter is DEAFENING.)

>>They believe that ethnicity (genetics) determines culture (behavior);
>>for example, when they see a Japanese(-ge)-American, they expect 
>>that he/she should/will do the Japanese-cu "thing".  In other words,
>>they believe that it is "natural" for a Japanese-American to do the
>>Japanese "thing" but that it is not "natural" for a Japanese-American
>>to do otherwise.
>>[Mr. Wilbur Pan (u58402@uicvm.uic.edu) being an example of such bigotry
>> deleted]
>...
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Seikatsu no imi wa nan desu ka.            \|  |`      | Don't buy from Toyota;
Shitte itara oshiete kuremasen ka.          | -+-      | especially, don't buy
                                           /| / \      | from Capitol Toyota in
Copyright 1992.                 Disclaimer:  1 + 1 = 3 | San Jose, California.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Newsgroups: soc.culture.asian.american
From: claypool@seas.gwu.edu (Hyok H. Lee)
Subject: Re: Is it in the Genes?
Organization: George Washington University
Date: Sun, 27 Sep 1992 04:17:23 GMT


c60b-1gs@web-1e.berkeley.edu (Allen Tom) writes:
: In article <1992Sep26.032712.15431@seas.gwu.edu> claypool@seas.gwu.edu (Hyok H. Lee) writes:
: >I see intelligence as something physical.  If you perform a lobotomy on
: >someone, then that person is going to lose some cognitive function.  
: >Therefore I ask: if one race is taller than another, why can't one race be
: >more intelligent than another?  And by intelligence, I'm strictly speaking
: >of academics.  I'm not taking into account creativity, determination, or
: 
: Since when does one's performance in academics measure intelligen
: Doing well or poorly in academics could merely be a reflection of one's 
: assimilation into western culture, or just a reflection of one's "family
: values" -- I just had to use that phrase.
: 
It measures one facet of intelligence!  If you did not delete what I
said later, people would see that I acknowledge other facets of intelligence
such as creativity.

:
BY THE WAY, THIS IS THE MOST OVERUSED EXCUSE FOR BLACKS DOING POORLY IN THE SAT!
How is it that Asians do relatively well in the SAT when blacks do not?!
The cultural bias  of the exams do not apply since most of the 
Asians retain a part of their original culture, while the blacks are
born into this culture.
.  
 
: It wasn't too long ago when "Orientals" were believed to be incredibly
: stupid....
: 
: 
Believed by  whom?  I believe Marco Polo discovered how advanced
the Chinese a very long time ago.  I guess it's a matter of how
you define "not too long ago."
 -- 
:Interestingly, researcher have found, by a battery of test, that
Australian aboriginal childrean tended to be better than white children
in finding a trail after seeing once, although they were all raised in
the same environment.
  _____________________________________________________________________________
: |ALLEN TOM  c60b-1gs@web.berkeley.edu |          Our Prime Directive:           |
: |           atom@ocf.berkeley.edu     | 	PICCARD / RIKER for 92          |

:i

Stop lying to yourself
i

Hyok Lee
  -----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Newsgroups: soc.culture.asian.american
From: m-muyot@uiuc.edu (Maria Muyot)
Subject: Re: Is it in the Genes?
Followup-To: soc.culture.asian.american
Organization: Dept. of Statistics
Date: Tue, 6 Oct 1992 03:13:26 GMT

In article <1992Oct5.045811.19021@seas.gwu.edu>, claypool@seas.gwu.edu
(Hyok H. Lee) wrote:
> 
> 
> m-muyot@uiuc.edu (Maria Muyot) writes:
> : In article <66955@cup.portal.com>, Arthur_T_Hu@cup.portal.com wrote:
> : 
> : and according to my father, their family is part Spanish and French, 
> : and all sides are mixed with Malay. Does this make me less Asian than my
> : roommate who's parents are both from Shanghai? That's not fair, I was born
> : in Asia and I've lived there for 19 years, while he has lived all of his
> : life
> : in New Jersey! So I'm brown and I sunburn, does this mean that I am also
> : more likely to be less intelligent than he is???
> 
> You've answered your question in your question.  If you have a heritage
> that has infusion of genes other than the Mongoloid race, then you
> are less Mongoloid than your roommate.  Living somewhere for a long time
> does not change your genes.  Whether that makes you less likely to 
> be intelligent is not certain since it has not been established if
> Asians are smarter or not.
> 

I didn't mean to be taken so literally. My questions were meant to be 
rhetorical rather than interrogative. And yes, I do know the answer.
Newsgroups: soc.culture.asian.american
From: chopin@intelhf.hf.intel.com (Gladys Lim)
Subject: Re: Montel Williams Show (Re: Hoyt Sze will be on TV!
Organization: Intel Corp., Chandler, AZ.      
Distribution: na
Date: Mon, 5 Oct 92 16:52:27 GMT

In article <1992Oct3.235256.24253@beaver.cs.washington.edu> paulko@wolf.cs.washington.edu (Paul Ko) writes:
>shchen@eos.ncsu.edu wrote:
>: 
>: No discussion of interracial relationships is ever complete without bringing up
>: the fact that most of the CM involved in relationship with AAF are nerds, dorks, 
>: geeks, and your typical Chuck Wagon types.  
>
>This is really old. Admit it, you're just jealous. Admit that you lack proof for your
>argument. Furthermore, you obviously have no respect for women, especially AA women.
>You seem to questioning the taste of AA women who choose CM men over you. What
>makes you so special? The fact that you have some Asian background? Get off your
>high horse.
>
>: They know they won't have a prayer with even the plainest looking CF.  
>: So it comes down to AAF or party doll filled with warm water, which is 
>: really the same thing when you think about it.
>
>Again, this is really cheap. You appear to have a lot of anger towards AA women,
>for whatever reasons ...  you should try counselling.
>
>
>: Anytime you come across a CM/AAF couple, nine times out ten he'll be chewing on
>: a Milk Bone dog biscuit.  But since people usually marry person of close physical
>: proximity, does this mean most AAFs are also dog biscuit lovers?  You be the judge.
>
>
>It's people like shchen that really make life more difficult for everyone these days.
>Yes, you are entitled to your opinion, but, I've said it before, THINK IT OVER.
>
>
>
>Paul Ko.
>
>   

Thanks, Paul, for sticking up for us Asian American women.  It's
just so pleasant to come in to work and read how some guy thinks
Asian American women have no judgement/brains about the men
they chose and be compared to a sex-toy/blow-up doll filled with water.
And some people wonder why so few women are in this newsgroup...

-Gladys
From: kawakami@ocf.berkeley.edu (John Kawakami)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.asian.american
Subject: Minorities in business
Date: 26 Sep 92 07:23:52 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: U. C. Berkeley Open Computing Facility

I find that many of the posts here assume that all businesses are technical
or technocratic.  You all seem to assume that every person can be treated 
like a cog and should be hired only on how well they are able to compete
based on technical criterea.

Well, there are many areas where it might be considered an asset to be a
nonwhite person.  In addition to the requisite qualifications, the person
of color can bring a great deal of information to the company.  This person
can serve as a liason to the minority community.  This person's ties to a
world off-limits to whites should be treasured.

Of course, many companies don't view things this way, and see affirmative
action as a burden.  It's just another case of short term thinking.

The above argument doesn't even touch issues of corporate social responsi-
bility.


-- 
John Kawakami                  kawakami@ocf.berkeley.edu
                               ucbvax!ocf.berkeley.edu!kawakami
Newsgroups: soc.culture.asian.american
From: claypool@seas.gwu.edu (Hyok H. Lee)
Subject: Is it in the Genes?
Organization: George Washington University
Date: Sat, 26 Sep 1992 03:27:12 GMT

Lately, I have been thinking more and more about differences between the
races.  Do Asian-Americans do well academically because they are born
that way or because they're more motivated?  Is it just a coincidence that
more blacks are in the NBA than whites?

I read an article in "Runners World" magazine that reported that  
statistically, blacks (of western African origins) tend to have higher
percentage of fast-twitch muscle fibers than whites.  Also, proportionally,
blacks tended to have larger thighs, smaller calves and smaller trunks--
all adding up to increased efficiency in running.  

Now if we apply the same logic to intelligence, could it be possible that
a certain racial group could tend to be more intelligent?  It would seem
really unfair if the blacks as a race were just as smart as us, would it
not?  Think about it.  They're superior to us physically and they are just
as smart.  It all has to even out somehow.

I see intelligence as something physical.  If you perform a lobotomy on
someone, then that person is going to lose some cognitive function.  
Therefore I ask: if one race is taller than another, why can't one race be
more intelligent than another?  And by intelligence, I'm strictly speaking
of academics.  I'm not taking into account creativity, determination, or
other factor that cannot readily be measured.

This new line of thinking that I'm dabbling in goes completely contrary
to what I have believed in and have lived my life by.  Don't get me wrong,
I still firmly believe in equal rights of ALL humans.  

Ignore your natural tendency to discount this question, even though it has
been drilled into your head by the "system" and the media that all humans
are the same.  Dig deep and give me your brutally honest response.

Hyok Lee
From: Arthur_T_Hu@cup.portal.com
Newsgroups: soc.culture.asian.american
Subject: Re: Is it in the Genes?
Date: Wed, 30 Sep 92 22:20:41 PDT
Organization: The Portal System (TM)
  <92270.134930U58402@uicvm.uic.edu>

What does Mr. Arthur Hu think? I'm open to all possibilities, and there 
are some interesting things that indicate Asians just might be genetically
smarter, though there's no hard proof. Asian immigrants get the same
Math SAT scores as the American Born. American Asians score just as high
on math tests as students in Taiwan and Korea, about 2 years ahead of
whites (blacks are 4 years behind). Arthur Jensen tested Asian youngsters
in Oakland who are mostly poor, and they still scored higher than white
youngsters in most of the IQ tests they were given. If you ask Mr. Jensen
(I have) is it genetic, he'll say there's no proof. But he'll then say
there's loads of evidence that points in that direction before he stops
at it definitely being genetic. My view of intelligence is that it's like
money - it's a measure of something you have today. It may not be a good
measure of how much you'll have tomorrow, or how much you are geneticaally
predisposed to have it.

As to black athletic superiority, there's no doubt that blacks absolutely
dominate some US Sports. But if you looked at the Olympics, the Chinese
placed 4th in medals, a Korean won the Marathon, and several African
American runners were beat by wimpy Europeans. All superiority means is
that a certain person won a certain game in a certain place.

There are also numerous instances of poor black children whose IQ scores
jumped from 15 pts below to 15 pts above average when they were pumped
up with programs. Unfortunately, they usually bounced back to average
5 years after the program stopped. There is also a case of Hispanic and
Black students who were admitted into a special program at Cal Poly
with low SAT scores who ended up out-doing even the Asian students in
Calculus. They were inferior when they were admitted, but superior 
after they took this program. Superiority is just an objective score,
not the immutable worth of a person.

I've known several brilliant black engineers. The only problem is that
there aren't more of them, and there are probably too many brialliant
Asian engineers and too few starving artists. Genetic theories shouldn't
be thrown out just because they are racist, but they should never
be treated as the entire picture even if it turns out to be partly true.
Newsgroups: soc.culture.asian.american
From: gwangung@carson.u.washington.edu (Roger Tang)
Subject: Re: Interracial Dating FAQ (was Re: Montel Williams Show)
Organization: University of Washington, Seattle
Distribution: na
Date: Tue, 6 Oct 1992 18:43:55 GMT

In article <SDY.92Oct5170043@bcstec.boeing.com> sdy@bcstec.boeing.com (Ugly Bag of Mostly Water) writes:
>>>>>> On 5 Oct 92 16:59:54 GMT, gwangung@carson.u.washington.edu (Roger Tang) said:
>> B). People who have the ``inferiority complex'' about their own race and just
>> want to marry into the mainstream.
>	RTang> 	Normally, I have a hard time accepting that this sentiment
>	RTang> still exists in these "enlightened" times, but given the
>	RTang> frequency of the term "Asian American men are scum" that I
>	RTang> overhear from Asian females, I'm not so sure nowadays.....
>Hey Roger, you forgot the '=)', besides I think the term was "pigs" not "scum"

	No, the term used most often was scum.

	And I didn't use a smiley cuz the women I overheard didn't use
a smiley.....


>	RTang> Roger Tang, gwangung@u.washington.edu
>	RTang> Producer Emeritus, Asian Theatre at the UW
>and what ever happened to the rest of the .sig?

	Under construction. Gotta bring my copy of IMZADI to work.
-- 
Roger Tang, gwangung@u.washington.edu
Producer Emeritus, Asian Theatre at the UW

Newsgroups: soc.culture.asian.american
From: clare@nynexst.com (Clare Chu)
Subject: Re: "Asian-Americans..."
Organization: Nynex Science and Technology
Date: Mon, 28 Sep 92 12:31:00 GMT

In article <4920086@hpcc01.corp.hp.com> patw@hpcc01.corp.hp.com (Patsy Wang) writes:
>> >> This is a ludicrous comment, given that I've never identified my
>> >> ethnicity on this network and that I've never met Ms. Patsy Wang.
>> >Geez Dwight, we're not stupid.  We don't need for you to stand up 
>> >and shout out your ethnicity.  Your last name gives a clue.  The
>> 
>> This is a ludicrous comment.  I could be an African-American who
>> was adopted.
>> 
>
>Fine, we'll play it your way.  I happen to know someone who's met 
>you.  You're a tall Chinese-American.  You have a brother by the
>name of Truman, and obviously you two are not very close.
>
  Do you also have brothers named Kennedy, Lyndon, and Nixon???  :-)

Newsgroups: soc.culture.asian.american