HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: alla0008@student.tc.umn.edu (Graham Allan)
Subject: Re: PhoneBase
Organization: University of Minnesota
Date: Thu, 31 Dec 1992 23:30:39 GMT

In article <gwalter.00s5@gwalter.demon.co.uk> gwalter@gwalter.demon.co.uk (Graham Walter) writes:
>Well, I thought I'd see if I could get a signon to PhoneBase. Just
>rang the support line (31Dec, 15:40):
>  [some text deleted...]
>The feeling I get from this is that BT do not regard PhoneBase as a
>"real product", if that's the sort of support they provide. Comments
>anyone ? Is it worth using ?

Well it's useful for some look-ups but it does have some peculiarities...
Just before Christmas, a friend of mine was trying to find the local
DialPlus (?) number in Dundee, so he could log onto his Compuserve account
from my computer. The perfect use for Phonebase, I thought - but no, there
was no listing. This led to the discovery of a bizarre and disturbing fact
about Phonebase. Armed with the theory that DialPlus is a subsidiary of
British Telecom, we  entered a search for Bristish Telecom. And obtained
one number (seemingly head office in London) together with the advice to
find further listings under "BT". However, entering a search of "BT" gave
the response "You must enter four or more characters".

So, it would seem, you can't look up British Telecom on their own computer
system.

(There may have been some workaround for this situation in the Phonebase
manual, I didn't check). As a final footnote, Directory Enquiries couldn't
find the number either, and apparently they DO charge you the 56p (or
whatever) despite not finding the number,  unless you specifically ask them
not to.

Graham


Newsgroups: uk.telecom
From: gtoal@pizzabox.demon.co.uk (Graham Toal)
Subject: Re: Life in the Fast Lane
Organization: Cuddlehogs Anonymous
Distribution: uk
Date: Thu, 24 Dec 1992 04:28:37 GMT

In article <1hba4jINN5g9@garnet.msen.com> josephs@msen.com (Joseph Stroup) writes:
:some of the business types were. I had business 
:at Houston Station in the Inmarsat Building - I

:-) Blimey guvnor, Hi've not 'eard that one in hages!

Don't judge us all by the Inmarsat guys.  Why, only a couple of blocks away
are the best bunch of long-haired hippy hackers you could hope to meet
(working hours, 2pm till midnight...) :-)

G
Newsgroups: uk.telecom
From: dom@sound.demon.co.uk (The Vex-Master)
Subject: Re: Electric Shock..
Reply-To: dom@sound.demon.co.uk
Distribution: uk
X-Mailer: cppnews $Revision: 1.20 $
Organization: - VexFactor10 Productions - London, U.K.
Date: Sun, 27 Dec 1992 21:19:27 +0000

In article <9212252203.aa15383@gate.demon.co.uk> karl@bagpuss.demon.co.uk (karl) writes:
> I dialed a number this morning, and upon hitting the last digit, I received
> an electric shock from the handset (the handset *is* the phone); only a small
> one but enough to make me nearly drop the phone.
> 
> I thought telephones only worked with very low voltages, so I'm curious as to
> what may have caused this; I suspect some sort of 'power spike' on the line;

I remember fixing up a main ringer a few years ago when I accidently touched
both wires at the same time. I received a shock large enough to knock me off
the ladder I was standing on - so there !

:-Dom
 ..............................................................................
 : 'Nuff Said, : MY INTERNET E-MAIL ADDRESS IS: --> dom@sound.demon.co.uk <-- :
 : |_) (_) |"| : Fidonet: VF10 at node 2:254/14  Otherwise: dom@nyx.cs.du.edu :
 : `VexMaster' : Internet and Usenet access on Sound & Vision BBS 0932-252323 :
 ::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::
From: ccdarg@dct.ac.uk (Alan Greig)
Newsgroups: uk.telecom
Subject: Re: PhoneBase
Date: 1 Jan 93 16:37:59 GMT
Organization: Dundee Institute of Technology

In article <1992Dec31.233039.12020@news2.cis.umn.edu>, alla0008@student.tc.umn.edu (Graham Allan) writes:
> In article <gwalter.00s5@gwalter.demon.co.uk> gwalter@gwalter.demon.co.uk (Graham Walter) writes:
>>Well, I thought I'd see if I could get a signon to PhoneBase. Just
>>rang the support line (31Dec, 15:40):
>>  [some text deleted...]
>>The feeling I get from this is that BT do not regard PhoneBase as a
>>"real product", if that's the sort of support they provide. Comments
>>anyone ? Is it worth using ?
> 
> Well it's useful for some look-ups but it does have some peculiarities...
> Just before Christmas, a friend of mine was trying to find the local
> DialPlus (?) number in Dundee, so he could log onto his Compuserve account
> from my computer. The perfect use for Phonebase, I thought - but no, there
> was no listing. This led to the discovery of a bizarre and disturbing fact
> about Phonebase. Armed with the theory that DialPlus is a subsidiary of
> British Telecom, we  entered a search for Bristish Telecom. And obtained
> one number (seemingly head office in London) together with the advice to
> find further listings under "BT". However, entering a search of "BT" gave
> the response "You must enter four or more characters".
> 
> So, it would seem, you can't look up British Telecom on their own computer
> system.
> 

This sort of thing is perfectly normal for BT. The simple solution is
just to keep asking for a supervisor and keep asking and keep asking...
Shout Global Network Services until someone knows what you are talking
about. If this fails switch to being rude which surprisingly usually
does work. UNDER NO CIRCUMSTANCES HANG UP.

BTW, there are both BT DialPlus and AT&T Istel numbers in Dundee which
can access compuserve so it's not that you were looking for something
that doesn't exist.


> (There may have been some workaround for this situation in the Phonebase
> manual, I didn't check). As a final footnote, Directory Enquiries couldn't
> find the number either, and apparently they DO charge you the 56p (or
> whatever) despite not finding the number,  unless you specifically ask them
> not to.
-- 
Alan Greig                            Janet: Alan@UK.AC.DUNDEE-TECH
Dundee Institute of Technology	   Internet: Alan@DCT.AC.UK
Tel: (0382) 308810                 Int: +44 382 308810
              -- There is only one true conspiracy --
Newsgroups: uk.telecom
From: karl@bagpuss.demon.co.uk (karl)
Subject: Electric Shock..
X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL2]
Content-Type: text
Content-Length: 538
Date: Fri, 25 Dec 1992 21:52:27 +0000

I dialed a number this morning, and upon hitting the last digit, I received
an electric shock from the handset (the handset *is* the phone); only a small
one but enough to make me nearly drop the phone.

I thought telephones only worked with very low voltages, so I'm curious as to
what may have caused this; I suspect some sort of 'power spike' on the line;
is this possible?  This only occured once and the line is perfectly OK, however
the phone appears to be damaged and now refuses to dial out!

Any ideas what could have happened?
From: josephs@msen.com (Joseph Stroup)
Newsgroups: uk.telecom
Subject: Life in the Fast Lane
Date: 23 Dec 1992 22:17:25 -0500
Organization: Msen, Inc. -- Ann Arbor, Michigan
Distribution: uk
NNTP-Posting-Host: garnet.msen.com

It sounds to me like the people at BT are like
the ones I see in the television show called
"At Your Service". I was in the UK last year
and I was very surprised to see just how stuffy
some of the business types were. I had business 
at Houston Station in the Inmarsat Building - I
went in jeans...you would have thought that the Queen
was going to be there.. I was told that I must wear
the proper suit. I very quickly informed that person
that I wanted to know just "Which Squirel was in Charge
of the Nut Bin ?". Something that they did not understand.
Many small business people were excellent to get on with
but, the corporate types. Hey, if you did not come from
some special backround then forget it. I was glad to, I 
saw the great county , had fun with the people and skipped
business. ----- Now I hear there is a serious economic situation.



All the above just fun and games we in the U.S. can be nuts 
just like anyone else.


Does BT stand for "Before Time ? ".

Joseph Stroup
Josephs@garnet.msen.com

-- 
Joseph Stroup          | Still trying to work
                       | and Play well with Others.
From: martin.briscoe@almac.co.uk (Martin Briscoe)
Newsgroups: uk.telecom
Subject: Re: PhoneBase
Date: 3 Jan 93 11:45:00 GMT
Reply-To: martin.briscoe@almac.co.uk (Martin Briscoe)
Organization: Almac BBS Ltd. +44 (0)324 665371


AG.This sort of thing is perfectly normal for BT. The simple solution is
  .just to keep asking for a supervisor and keep asking and keep asking...
  .Shout Global Network Services until someone knows what you are talking
  .about. If this fails switch to being rude which surprisingly usually
  .does work. UNDER NO CIRCUMSTANCES HANG UP.

When I used Compuserve I had a lot of problems with the local DIALPLUS 
node.  It was off for a couple of days one weekend, so I rang the BT 
GNS Ops 0800 number - they could find no record of the node at first.  
I listed several others in the Highlands and were not listed.

Eventually he found a bit of paper listing them pinned to the back of 
another bit of paper.

The node was off very regularly, everyone seemed to blame it on 
someone else.  Compuserve were told that it was congestion - at 0100h!
 
Got to the point that I got a "not again" when reporting faults on it.

I tried reporting BT EYP faulty one weekend - that was good fun !  I 
suspect it was faulty in most of Scotland for at least a day.  I seem 
to remember that BT Business faults did not know anything about it.  I 
left a message on EYP by going in through DIALPLUS eventually.

               Martin

 * 1st 1.02b #405 * Martin Briscoe - FORT WILLIAM - Inverness-shire - Scotland
                                                                                                          
Newsgroups: uk.telecom
From: gtoal@pizzabox.demon.co.uk (Graham Toal)
Subject: Re: Directory Enquiries                     
Organization: Cuddlehogs Anonymous
Date: Thu, 24 Dec 1992 01:25:41 GMT

In article <memo.827811@cix.compulink.co.uk> mandarin@cix.compulink.co.uk writes:
:It was a fairly recent decision, and although some new issues of Phone Books
:have come out since that decision was taken,  the policy was not promulgated
:widely enough for customers to realise that they needed to advise BT locally
:of any fax numbers they wanted to be included in the new-style books.   As a
:result not many fax numbers are shown in the phone books (or in consequence,
:available through Directory Enquiries). I guess that will eventually change.

I've always assumed you can have any text you like in a phone entry, can't
you?  I'm considering putting my (currently ex-directory) data line in with
"Graham Toal, anon uucp".  That'll be OK, no?

G
Newsgroups: uk.telecom
From: gtoal@pizzabox.demon.co.uk (Graham Toal)
Subject: Re: Junior Cards
Organization: Cuddlehogs Anonymous
Date: Tue, 22 Dec 1992 02:32:08 GMT

In article <1h5hnfINNis3@garnet.msen.com> josephs@msen.com (Joseph Stroup) writes:
:a PIN number. that seems to work well. In the U.S. we have a law
:that limits our loss in case of a lost or stolen card being used.
:The max. we can be made to pay is $50. The same goes for credit cards.

Whereas we have BT who'll whup yer hide, son.  When you sign the BT
phonecard contract you sign away unlimited liability, even in case
of fraud.  And the cards which let you put a limit on them: - they
only check the limit at the start of a call. You can have a $1-limited
card and run up $10,000 in a single call and you're still liable, even
though you thought they'd limit the duration of the call to $1 because
that's what you asked for.  And this is a deliberate policy decision,
not an implementation cockup.

Wish our OFTEL had your FCC's teeth, instead of BT-flavoured gums.

G
Newsgroups: uk.telecom
From: mt@calliope.kram.org (Mark Turner)
Subject: Re: Books... 
Distribution: world
Organization: Demon Systems Limited / Demon Internet Services
Reply-To: mt@kram.org
X-Mailer: Simple NEWS 1.90 (ka9q DIS 1.18)
Date: Thu, 31 Dec 1992 18:44:47 +0000

In article <1084.richard@venus.demon.co.uk> richard@venus.demon.co.uk writes:
>When I ask at the book shops in Nottingham all I get is a blank stare -
>after repeating myself about three times, they get busy
>typing/micro-fiching and then I get the same answer "We don't have any
>record of that book existing, are you sure?".

I had the same problem convincing the Nottingham branch of Dillons that
the book really did exist. Perhaps if enough of us ask them about it
they might go away and find it!

Regards,

Mark.

-- 
/\/\ark Turner                               Demon Systems / Demon Internet
Office: mark@demon.co.uk (+44 81 349 0063)       42 Hendon Lane, London
Home: mt@kram.org (+44 831 823 212)                  N3 1TT, England
------------------ PGP version 2.1 Public Key available -------------------
*** IP level dial-up connectivity to the Internet for a tenner a month! ***
From: rf@cl.cam.ac.uk (Robin Fairbairns)
Newsgroups: uk.telecom
Subject: Re: Electric Shock..
Date: 31 Dec 92 15:09:53 GMT
Organization: U of Cambridge Computer Lab, UK

In article <9212252203.aa15383@gate.demon.co.uk>, karl@bagpuss.demon.co.uk (karl) writes:
|> I dialed a number this morning, and upon hitting the last digit, I received
|> an electric shock from the handset [...]
|>
|> I thought telephones only worked with very low voltages, so I'm curious as to
|> what may have caused this; I suspect some sort of 'power spike' on the line;
|> is this possible?  This only occured once and the line is perfectly OK, however
|> the phone appears to be damaged and now refuses to dial out!

1. Telephone lines run on 50V.  Not terribly high, but I used
regularly to give myself little shocks when I worked in exchanges.

2. I was told at that time that the _real_ reason that linesmen tie
themselves to telegraph poles when they're up them is that the ring
current (80V AC) could give a nasty kick - enough to knock a man off
his pole.

3. The power within the telephone exchange is pretty carefully
regulated (they've more to lose than you from electrical damage); a
surge down the line is pretty unlikely.

4. The above information could be out of date.

However, on the balance of probabilities, I would guess that the
answer to your problem is one of:

a) your telephone blowing up and giving out a shock as its last cheeky
act

b) (as someone else suggested) static coming from you to the telephone

I would plump for (a), myself
--
Robin (Campaign for Real Radio 3) Fairbairns       rf@cl.cam.ac.uk
U of Cambridge Computer Lab, Pembroke St, Cambridge  CB2 3QG, UK
"They had twelve years to lay in wait for us" - Bush supporter on Nov 4
Subject: Re: Directory Enquiries                     
Reply-To: rob@sound.demon.co.uk
Distribution: world
X-Mailer: cppnews $Revision: 1.20 $
Organization: Sound & Vision BBS (UK) 0932 252323
Date: Thu, 24 Dec 1992 19:34:25 +0000

>I've always assumed you can have any text you like in a phone entry, can't
>you?  I'm considering putting my (currently ex-directory) data line in with
>"Graham Toal, anon uucp".  That'll be OK, no?
now that would be nice, I'd be able to put the BBS in..
Or maybe we could convince BT to have a separate 'computer data services'
section somewhere..
a thought
-rob-
              ---------------
p.s.          | H U M B U G |
              ---------------

=----------------------------------.----------------------------------------=
| Nominal  : Rob Barth             | RJB Communications (+44) (0)932 253131 |
| InterNet : rob@sound.demon.co.uk | Sound & Vision BBS (+44) (0)932 252323 |
| FidoNet  : sysop, 2:254/14       |  The best UK BBS with a full UseNet &  |
| Nyx      : rbarth@nyx.cs.du.edu  | Internet Email feed. All hours/speeds. |
=----------------------------------.----------------------------------------=
Newsgroups: uk.telecom
From: rob@sound.demon.co.uk (Robert J Barth)
Subject: 162.00 a 'quote' ???!
Reply-To: rob@sound.demon.co.uk
Distribution: world
X-Mailer: cppnews $Revision: 1.20 $
Organization: Sound & Vision BBS (UK) 0932 252323
Date: Fri, 25 Dec 1992 17:14:14 +0000

What's this I hear about rebates on installing phone lines ?

i.e. you install the wiring yourself, tell the engineer to write down 'no
materials used', and tell BT over and over, and you get a rebate from em ?

I know someone who has done this, and managed to get a line for
(162.00-128.00)+vat

Is there some nice small print somewhere I can refer to, as I now know that the
162.00 is a 'quote' rather than a charge ?

cheers
-rob-

=----------------------------------.----------------------------------------=
| Nominal  : Rob Barth             | RJB Communications (+44) (0)932 253131 |
| InterNet : rob@sound.demon.co.uk | Sound & Vision BBS (+44) (0)932 252323 |
| FidoNet  : sysop, 2:254/14       |  The best UK BBS with a full UseNet &  |
| Nyx      : rbarth@nyx.cs.du.edu  | Internet Email feed. All hours/speeds. |
=----------------------------------.----------------------------------------=
Newsgroups: uk.telecom
From: gwalter@gwalter.demon.co.uk (Graham Walter)
Subject: PhoneBase
Distribution: world
X-NewsSoftware: GRn 1.16f (10.17.92) by Mike Schwartz & Michael B. Smith
Organization: not as such
Date: Thu, 31 Dec 1992 15:54:32 +0000

Well, I thought I'd see if I could get a signon to PhoneBase. Just
rang the support line (31Dec, 15:40):

"The PhoneBase support line is not currently manned. It will be next
manned from 9:00 on Monday 4th January. If you would like to leave a message
we will get back to you then."

(slight paraphrase, but contains the essential sense of the Ansaphone
message)


Doesn't seem to me to be much of a support line. I know it's New Year's
eve, but even so...

The feeling I get from this is that BT do not regard PhoneBase as a
"real product", if that's the sort of support they provide. Comments
anyone ? Is it worth using ?

Cheers Graham

--
gwalter@gwalter.demon.co.uk    |  If our brains were simple enough to
gwalter@cix.compulink.co.uk    |  understand, we wouldn't be able to.
From: jtaylor@axion.bt.co.uk (Julie Taylor)
Newsgroups: uk.bcs.misc
Subject: Re: Engineers etc.
Date: 22 Dec 92 10:14:41 GMT
Reply-To: jtaylor@zaphod.axion.bt.co.uk
Distribution: uk
Organization: BT Labs

From article <1992Dec21.181059@cs.man.ac.uk>, by mario@cs.man.ac.uk (Mario Wolczko):
> There is one necessary (but not sufficient!) condition which I feel
> must be satisfied by anyone in the computer industry who wishes to
> call themselves an engineer: take full responsibility for your
> creations. 
> 
> If a bridge falls down due to a design error, then the engineer is
> held responsible, and can expect to be sued and/or prosecuted.
> 
> Contrast this with the pages of disclaiming fine print attached to
> software. 
> 
> By this criterion, I do not believe I have ever met a "software
> engineer".  
> 
> Mario Wolczko

If you join the British Computer Society you sign up to the Code of
Practice and Code of Conduct, and your customer could have you
dismissed from the Society if you fail to comply with those codes.
While this does not of itself provide legal protection for your 
customer, I do think that in being a member of the BCS, you are
promising to be a responsible professional, and have certain
standards by which you can be judged (perhaps in court?). 
If the definition of an engineer was someone who could be sued
for their work, we might all prefer to deny being one!

     ************ home computer address details ******************
     From      Julie M Taylor               
     Org       BT, Software Technology, Maintenance Section
     Phone     (0473) 642651                  Fax  (0473) 643019
     Internet  J.Taylor@axion.bt.co.uk (or jtaylor@axion.bt.co.uk)
     X400      Initials=J; Surname=TAYLOR; OU=Axion; O=BT Axion; 
               PRMD=UK.CO.BT; ADMD=GOLD 400; Country=GB;
     Telecom Gold 04:TJJ99011
     ************ end of home computer address details ***********
Newsgroups: uk.bcs.misc
From: gturrell@bmdhh256.bnr.ca (Graham Turrell)
Subject: Eligable for CEng ?
Organization: BNR-Europe-Limited, Maidenhead, England
Date: Tue, 22 Dec 1992 16:22:52 GMT

I remember that, when the Royal Charter was granted to the BCS, I attempted
to find out from the society whether I was eligable for CEng status. After
a lot of waiting for letter replies, I discovered that (at the time at least)
my degree course had not been approved by the IEE. All other requirements
are, I believe, met.

In order to avoid another long written correspondence with HQ, could anyone 
tell me if my degree is now considered an acceptable one ?

Here are the details:

BSc. (Hons) Computational Science (Univ. Leeds) 1984

(with 8 years professional experience as a Computer Scientist/Engineer
 - delete according to taste :-) ).


If so, I will attempt to acquire an application form !

Many thanks.
-- 
---------------------------------ooooOOOOoooo-----------------------------------
#include <standard_disclaimer>

#define NAME Graham_Turrell
#define MOTTO It could be worse, it could be raining.
---------------------------------ooooOOOOoooo-----------------------------------
From: J.W.Harley@newcastle.ac.uk (Jon Harley)
Newsgroups: uk.bcs.misc
Subject: Re: Engineers etc.
Date: 21 Dec 92 12:18:02 GMT
Distribution: uk
Organization: University of Newcastle upon Tyne, UK, NE1 7RU

aro@aber.ac.uk (Andrew Ormsby) writes:

>J.W.Harley@newcastle.ac.uk (Jon Harley) writes:
>
>> But the BCS _doesn't_ value scientists as much as *.Engineers. I've recently
>> discovered that when evaluating computing experience, research only counts
>> for half as much as routine software development.

>But why should the BCS value science as much as engineering
>experience? After all, the PhD is the reward for the research. The
>C.Eng (or whatever) is supposed to indicate something else. 

It's not obvious from the name that "Member of the British Computer
Society" is an engineering rather than scientific designation...

>Building research systems, whether you make a genine contribution to
>the field or not, is frequently (though not always) significantly
>different to building industrial strength systems, and should be.

That's certainly true. For one thing research is creative, and seems to
be much harder work (PhDs take long hours, and you have much more
responsibility and less help available than a junior programmer does).

If the BCS is just going to be for engineers, it should rename itself the
Institute of Information Systems Engineers or something and make it explicit.
If it's going to be for everyone in computing, as the current name implies,
it should value us all equally.


/Jon
   ___________________ ____ ________________________________________
  / -- Jonathan Harley \  /_    And they covered up the sun        //    //  //
 / J.W.Harley@ncl.ac.uk \/ /   until the birds had flown away...  // // //////
/_Phone:UK 091 222 8504__\/___________________________________///////////  //
From: ensnjsa@gdr.bath.ac.uk (N J S Ajderian)
Newsgroups: uk.bcs.misc
Subject: Re: Can I be a member? No.
Date: 24 Dec 92 12:01:19 GMT
Distribution: uk
Organization: School of Mechanical Engineering, University of Bath, UK

In the referenced article, mct@praxis.co.uk (Martyn Thomas) writes:
>
>I believe that customers wil increasingly require that senior people leading
>software projects are CEng. 
>
>I also believe that the pressure on pay for programmers is downwards
>and that the better qualified "engineers" will be paid better than their
>less qualified colleagues (lots of reasons, but just look at other
>engineering professions for comparisons).

This isn't my experience of mechanical engineering. Those with the highest
pay and status are the managers who are often not CEngs. However, a positive
development is a move towards having "Principal Engineers", responsible 
non-managers.

At my previous company, I and other project engineers (most not CEng) had to
sign a product release form accepting full responsibility under the PRODUCT
LIABILITY LAWS (!) for the machines. Surpisingly, we were not paid any more
for this. One of the main reasons that I left and changed discipline.

Nick Ajderian, CEng, MIMechE, Software Mechanic
Newsgroups: uk.bcs.misc