HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: engelson-sean@CS.YALE.EDU (Sean Philip Engelson)
Subject: Re: Inheritance of Jewish Identity from a Great-great-grandmother
Organization: Yale AI Mobile Robotics Project
Date: Tue, 21 Jul 1992 12:57:23 GMT


In article <2294@israel.nysernet.org>, warren@nysernet.org (Warren Burstein) writes:
|> se = engelson-sean@CS.YALE.EDU (Shlomo Engelson)
|> 
|> me: some just call "yaamod hamagbiah v'golel" (should this be v'hagolel?)
|> 
|> se: Actually, it should be "ya`am.du hamagbi'ah v.hagolel", there being two of
|> >them.
|> 
|> Yes, you're right, it should be a plural verb.  Perhaps I've sometimes
|> heard "yaamod hamagbiah, yaamod hagolel".  These days I go to shuls
|> where the Gabbaim know how to speak Hebrew correctly, but I do think
|> that in the past I've heard yaamod followed by two job descriptions.

And then there are the gabaim who make a misheberach for the many members of an
`oleh laTorah's family...all in singular form.  Or male for female (I've never
seen it the other way---latent sexism? :-)...etc...etc...

	-Shlomo-
-- 
Sean Philip (Shlomo) Engelson		Im eshkachekh Yerushalayim, tishkach yemini;
Yale Department of Computer Science	Tidbak leshoni lchiki im lo ezkerekhi
Box 2158 Yale Station				Im lo a`aleh et Yerushalayim
New Haven, CT 06520					Al rosh simchati.
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
From: ask@cbnews.cb.att.com (Arthur S. Kamlet)
Subject: hamsa (hand symbol)
Organization: AT&T Bell Laboratories,  Columbus, Ohio
Date: Mon, 27 Jul 1992 02:36:03 GMT

A few weeks ago there was a discussion of the Hamsa symbol, a hand
usually with an "eye" in the middle.

I just received the latest (August 27) Jewish Book News and the main
selection is "The Encyclopedia of Jewish Symbols" by Ellen Frankel
and Betsy Platkin Teutsch, 1992.

As part of a brief review of this book, the Hamsa symbol is
described, together with a picture of a Yemenite filigree "hand,"
fingers down, palm shown, "eye" in the center, worn as a pendant.
This is from the book review:

" HAMSA (chet mem samech hay)  The hamsa -- from the Semitic root
meaning "five" -- is a hand-shaped amulet worn to ward off the Evil
Eye. This practice may have originated among the ancient Cannanite
people - Phillistines and Phoenicians - who would make the "hand of
Baal" (horns using the index finger and pinky) over their heads, to
protect against the Evil Eye.  It is likely that Israelite traders
carried this gesture (also used to mark a cuckhold) east and west to
enter European, Indian, and Chinese folklore.

Representing the protective hand of G-d, hand amulets, known
variously as "the hand of Miriam," "the hand of Fatima," and "the
hand of Mary," have long been used in Mediterranean cultures.
Although Muslims named the hamsa after Fatima, the daughter of
Muhammed, the tradition predates Islam by at least 1,000 years. It
is speculated that Jews were among the first to use this form as a
protective amulet.

Often a hamsa has a single eye embedded in the middle of the palm
to symbolize the watchful eye of G-d or to deflect the gaze of the
Evil Eye.  Occasionally, Jewish hamsas have a sixth finger, perhaps
to observe the prohibition against making "a sculptured image of...
what is on the earth below [ Ex 20:4 ]" that is, a human hand.

Still respected as powerful amulets among Jews originating in Muslim
countries, hamsas have in modern times become quite popular as good
luck charms without overt magical significance.  Through the
influence of Sephardi Jews in Israel, hamsas have become common
among Western Jews as well."
-- 
Art Kamlet  a_s_kamlet@att.com  AT&T Bell Laboratories, Columbus
From: gertler@ptms_dev.sbi.com (User - Don Gertler)
Subject: Re: O-C-R debate
Reply-To: <gertler@ptms_dev.sbi.com (User - Don Gertler)>
Organization: Nysernet
Date: 27 Jul 92 10:43:15 GMT

hap@scubed.scubed.com (Hap Freiberg) writes:
 	My $0.02. Far be it from me to interpret Nora's thoughts but what I

Then may we assume that the following are in fact your thoughts?

	think she may mean is this: "Fundies" of any ilk are anathema. They
	tend to have tunnel vision, be self-righteous,
	^^^^^^^
What do you mean by "tend to"?  Do they or don't they have tunnel vision,
and are they or aren't they self-righteous?  I mean, as long as we're
lumping all those fundies into one monolith, why beat around the bush
with a wimpy "tend to"?  After all, we enlightened individuals know better.
We know all the fundies ilk are anathema.

	and to believe whole-
	heartedly that their "WAY" is the only way and that all non-followers
	or -believers are doomed.  Not a whole lot of room left for compro-
	mise, individuality, or divergent thoughts....

It's funny that you use the term "anathema."  An anathema is one who (that)
is damned or cursed, or greatly loathed.  I guess they say about you exactly
what you say about them.

You wouldn't happen to be a closet fundie, now would you?

	What is the "moral"
	difference between the Orthodox of Jerusalem throwing stones at other
	Jews who travel on the Sabbath and the former head of the Southern
	Baptists telling his convention that God does not here the prayers of
	the Jews?

There's a great difference indeed.  The former can have tragic consequences,
while the latter cannot.  After all, G-d doesn't listen to the sermons of a
Southern Baptist minister.

-Don Gertler
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
From: ask@cbnews.cb.att.com (Arthur S. Kamlet)
Subject: Re: Ya'amod/Ya'amdu (was Re: Inheritance of Jewish Identity from...)
Organization: AT&T Bell Laboratories,  Columbus, Ohio
Date: Wed, 22 Jul 1992 17:12:40 GMT

In article <1992Jul22.130233.4770@cbnewsl.cb.att.com> saal@cbnewsl.cb.att.com (samuel.saal) writes:
>In article <1992Jul22.030441.18064@cbnews.cb.att.com>
>ask@cbnews.cb.att.com (Arthur S. Kamlet) writes:
>
>>In article <2294@israel.nysernet.org> warren@nysernet.org writes:
>
>>>where the Gabbaim know how to speak Hebrew correctly, but I do think
>>>that in the past I've heard yaamod followed by two job descriptions.
>
>>Of course, in the distant - real distant past, one person performed
>>both jobs, making the yaamod's easier :^)
>
>And in the not-so-distant present, I suppose it would still be possible
>for one person to do both jobs, especially when working with a Sephardic
>scroll that comes in those hardwood, ornately decorated cases.

Good point.  Our shul has two 18th century Egyptian Torahs in metal
decorated cases.  The case is simply shut.  Then the yad and the
other ornaments may be added.  The only time I see these Torahs is
on Kol Nidre and on Simchat Torah.
-- 
Art Kamlet  a_s_kamlet@att.com  AT&T Bell Laboratories, Columbus
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
From: saal@cbnewsl.cb.att.com (samuel.saal)
Subject: Re: hamsa (hand symbol)
Organization: NetNews Readers Anonymous
Date: Tue, 28 Jul 1992 14:30:46 GMT

In article <1992Jul27.023603.2370@cbnews.cb.att.com>
ask@cbnews.cb.att.com (Arthur S. Kamlet) writes:

>I just received the latest (August 27) Jewish Book News and the main
>selection is "The Encyclopedia of Jewish Symbols" by Ellen Frankel
>and Betsy Platkin Teutsch, 1992.

>" HAMSA (chet mem samech hay)  The hamsa -- from the Semitic root
>meaning "five" -- is a hand-shaped amulet worn to ward off the Evil
>Eye.

I wonder how the older spelling, with a final shin, changed to a
samech....
-- 
Sam Saal      homxb!saal OR saal@homxb.att.com
	Vayiftach HaShem et Peah Ha`Aton
From: warren@nysernet.org (Warren Burstein)
Subject: Re: What is Jewish religion? (long...)
Reply-To: warren@nysernet.org
Organization: Mail to News Gateway at Wang Labs
Date: 21 Jul 92 07:18:28 GMT

ss = saal@cbnewsl.cb.att.com (samuel.saal)
df= faigin@aero.org (Daniel P. Faigin)

df: Perhaps now people understand the importance of the Liberal Jewish mailing
df: list, and why it got started. I'll say it again: Reform Judaism is a valid
df: approach to Judaism.

ss: You'd better be able to do better than proof by "repeated assertion."

Legitimate Interpretation challenged.  Kinot at midnight.
-- 
/|/-\/-\       The entire kitchen		Jerusalem
 |__/__/_/     is a very publishing house signature virus.
 |warren@      But the farmer
/ nysernet.org is paranoid.
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
From: hillel@cbnewsf.cb.att.com (hillel.e.markowitz)
Subject: Re: What is Jewish religion? (long...)
Organization: AT&T Federal Systems
Date: Fri, 24 Jul 1992 19:04:35 GMT

In article <55023@mentor.cc.purdue.edu> hrubin@pop.stat.purdue.edu (Herman Rubin) writes:
>In article <9207240050.AA26910@ptms_dev.sbi.com> <gertler@ptms_dev.sbi.com (User - Don Gertler)> writes:
>>hrubin@pop.stat.purdue.edu (Herman Rubin)
>>>Where does it state in the Written Torah that circumcision is to be performed
>>>by a mohel?
>
>>It need not be stated.  A mohel is one who performs milah.  Do we
>>need the Torah to state that speaking is to be performed by a speaker?
>
>But this merely states that whoever performs a circumcision is a mohel!
>Does one have to certify a speaker?
>-- 
>Herman Rubin, Dept. of Statistics, Purdue Univ., West Lafayette IN47907-1399


If the speaker is being presented as an expert, yes.  An analogy is
someone who wishes to get up in a court of law and speak.  Don't we
say that this person should be a lawyer?  If someone was to speak
in your department, wouldn't you insist that he be a a statistician
rather than someone off the street, or even a mathematician whose
training and knowledge come from a totally different area?

_______________________________________________________________
| Hillel Markowitz        |    Im ain ani li mi li             |
| H_Markowitz@att.com     |    Veahavta Leraiecha Kamocha      |
|_________________________|____________________________________|
From: rivk@quads.uchicago.edu (nora gayle rivkis)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
Subject: Re: Anti-Orthodoxy (was Re: O-C-R debate)
Date: 31 Jul 92 16:44:38 GMT
Reply-To: rivk@midway.uchicago.edu
Organization: University of Chicago Computing Organizations

In article <LERNER.92Jul31093324@division.cs.columbia.edu> lerner@cs.columbia.edu (Michah Lerner) writes:
>>In article <1992Jul30.204110.17057@midway.uchicago.edu> rivk@quads.uchicago.edu (nora gayle rivkis) writes:
>>I can think of several things the Orthodox do that Reform thinks is
>>wrong: not holding women to the same ritual obligations and privileges
>>as men is the most obvious one. Eating meat from animals that, while
>>they may have been slaughtered according to the requirements of kashruth,
>>were not treated in a humane fashion when they were alive, is another
>>example.
>>
>  What is this allegation of inhumane treatment of animals?  Are you
>  talking about veal?  So why does the butcher have a sign telling
>  people not to eat veal because of how it is cared for?   

Veal; most chicken in the United States; virtually all milk in the United
States. And a sign at the butcher's that suggests something is different
from considering it one of the basic laws of kashruth.

>/M

	-Nora
From: henk@ruben.th.vu.nl (Henk Harmsen)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
Subject: Exegetical question on Devarim 1,2
Date: 29 Jul 92 17:31:52 GMT
Organization: Vrije Universiteit Amsterdam - Faculty Of Theology

In Devarim 1,2 is written:

"achad asar yom mechorev derech har se`ir `ad qadesh barnea`"
(excuse the spelling)

Quite literally:

"eleven     day from Chorev way hill Se'ir to Qadesh Barnea`"

This phrase could mean two things:

a: [These are the words that Moshe spoke].
[It is] eleven days from Chorev, in the direction of the hills of Se`ir,
to Qadesh Barnea`

In this alternative, verse 1 is a kind of title, the story starts
in verse 2.

or

b: [These are the words that Moshe spoke ... (vs.1)],
at a distance of eleven days from Chorev, in the direction of the hills
of Se'ir, near Qadesh Barnea`

In this case, verse 1 and 2 are a title (verse 2 modifies the verb 'spoke')
and the story starts in verse 3 (wayehi...).

questions:
1. Which of the two makes most sense?
2. Would it make a difference to know the actual distance between Chorev
and Qadesh Barnea`?
3. Does anybody happen to know the actual distance?

Thanks in advance for any suggestions,

Henk Harmsen
(henk@th.vu.nl)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
From: dfs@doe.carleton.ca (David F. Skoll)
Subject: Re: O-C-R debate
Organization: Dept. of Electronics, Carleton University
Date: Tue, 28 Jul 1992 14:03:07 GMT

In <1992Jul28.133548.6308@cbnewsl.cb.att.com> saal@cbnewsl.cb.att.com
(samuel.saal) writes:

>In article <dfs.711993117@ro> dfs@doe.carleton.ca (David F. Skoll) writes:

[...]
>>Ironically, I think that being the only Jewish kid for miles probably
>>strengthened my Jewish identity and commitment rather than weakening
>>it.  I guess different people react in different ways.

>What happened to this other Jewish kid?  Did he also have an afternoon
>school education?  What is his adentification (and, less importantly, his
>affiliation) now?

What other Jewish kid? :-)

Any Jewish kid in Nfld. would have at best an afternoon school education,
since there was no other choice.  In fact, the so-called "public" schools
in Newfoundland are run by the churches.  (I had my choice of Catholic
or Protestant. :-)  Of course, I opted out of the religious stuff.)

(Aside: My junior high school was called Israel Jacob Samson Junior
High.  It was run by the Protestants.  Go figure.)

Seriously, it's been a while and I've lost touch with most of the
people from Nfld.  I would guess that the assimilation rate for the
kids has been about average, because most of them moved to bigger
cities with larger Jewish populations, and were subjected to similar
conditions as Jews from those centers.

--
                     |         | "Step up and shake the hand
David F. Skoll       | ||||||| |  Of someone you can't stand,
|_ _ _  __   __ _ __ |  \\V//  |  You can tolerate him if you try..."
 / |  | |_|   | |  | |  __|__  |  -- Tom Lehrer, "National Brotherhood Week"
_____|________________________________________________________________________
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
From: rivk@quads.uchicago.edu (nora gayle rivkis)
Subject: Re: O-C-R debate
Reply-To: rivk@midway.uchicago.edu
Organization: University of Chicago Computing Organizations
Date: Fri, 24 Jul 1992 07:18:39 GMT

In article <2319@israel.nysernet.org> warren@nysernet.org writes:
>In <1992Jul23.192739.22976@umbc3.umbc.edu> shimoff@umbc4.umbc.edu (Eliot Shimoff) writes:
>
>>The same argument might be made against afternoon Hebrew schools.
>>If the only form of J. education was yeshivot, then most J. kids
>>would attend, and get solid J. educations.  But now (in the US), 
>>J. parents can meet their "responsibilities" by sending their kids
>>for a few hours a week -- and most J. kids get very little.
>
>Seriously?  I think that if you closed down the Hebrew School and told
>the parents to send the kids to Yeshiva, they'd get Grandpa to teach
>the kids how to do his Haftara, and that would be it.  This would be a
>disaster.

>Parents who want kids with a little bit of Jewish education (but not
>too much, God forbid!), the kind that make life difficult for
>educators in all streams, are not going to send their kids to Yeshiva
>because the Hebrew School is closed, but they might stop going to the
>shul the few times each year that they do.

Aside from the question of those parents who want their kids to get "a
little bit" of Jewish education, there's the question of what kind of
Jewish education they want their kids to get. If there were a Reform
yeshiva in the vicinity, I would probably send my kids there full-time;
and my parents did send me to our synagogue's day school when I was
young, on the same principle. But I would teach my children myself
rather than send them to an Orthodox *anything*; I have about the same
degree of appreciation for and agreement with Orthodox religious the-
ory as I do for Christianity, and I wouldn't let my kids grow up being
trained by either one.

	-Nora


Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
From: MASH@WEIZMANN.WEIZMANN.AC.IL (Michael Shimshoni)
Subject: Again Mafdal and the Government
Organization: Weizmann Institute of Science, Israel
Date: Sun, 26 Jul 92 17:38:30 +0300

I was absent from  my office for some time so only  after I had posted
on this subject, I saw:

 <4040@bimacs.BITNET>
 Of: ehrlich@bimacs.BITNET (Gideon Ehrlich)

>In article <l6dts3INNfp6@appserv.Eng.Sun.COM>
>janiceg@marvin.Eng.Sun.COM writes:
>
>>In article 711364151@techunix.technion.ac.il, goldberg@techunix.technion.ac.i
>>>janiceg@marvin.Eng.Sun.COM (Janice Gelb) writes:
>>>
>>>>I was just wondering if this the first time the Mafdal has not been
>>>>part of the Israeli government ...
>>>
>>>                           NO
>>
>>
>>Someone else replied equally strongly YES.  Could you provide some dates
>>either way?
>
> the 1st time , as I remember, the Mafdal ( then another name was
>used)  left the government was at the begining of the state . the
>reason was the "yaldey tehran" case. Children saved from the Germans
>during WW2 arrived to Israel after being at Tehran , sended to secular
>places even so the childs  were religious.

This is  wrong.  The  Teheran Children arrived  in Israel  during WWII
(about 1942-43), thus before Israel was independent.

>The 2nd time was because of arrival of new F15 planes on Shabat.
>The mafdal left the coalition.
>Rabin in his known "bright trick" declared the resignation of the
>whole government so the resignation of the Mafdal's ministers  becomes
>void and they were forced to be ministers till a new government was
>elected. ( The new government was headed by the Likud ....).

Now after  reading Gideon's  description, I feel  that his  version is
more correct than mine, at that  time the Mafdal were "trapped" in the
government, thus technically at least they were "in" the government.

There is  the other case (at  least that one) when  Rabbi Toledano was
Minister of the Religions.

>Shalom   gideon Ehrlich       ERETZ YISRAEL

          Michael Shimshoni
From: aaron@kesher.UUCP (Aaron Schmiedel)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
Subject: Re: Inheritance of Jewish Identity from a Great-great-grandmother
Date: 21 Jul 92 12:39:56 GMT
Organization: KESHERnet International - Dallas, TX

In article <2264@israel.nysernet.org> warren@nysernet.org writes:
>
>time, or eliminate the oddity of having someone come up to where the
>Torah is being read, asking his name, and then calling the person -
>he's already there by that point.  We do mention the name in the


The shul I belong to is very small, so the rabbi or gabbai will say 
"Aharon Dovid ben..." and pauses for <me in this example> to fill int
the blank.  Sometimes he doesn't know at all, so he asks BEFORE the
aliyah is given.

In a larger shul I used to belong to, the gabbai would come around
and ask your Hebrew name before also.



-- 
| Aaron D. Schmiedel            |  All my opinions represent what is right  |
| KESHERnet International       |  and true.  Just ask me....               |
| The Jewish Computer Network   |       <aaron@kesher.lonestar.org>         |
| Voice: (214) 239-1941         | ...uunet!convex!egsner!sdf!kesher!aaron   |
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
From: dfs@doe.carleton.ca (David F. Skoll)
Subject: Re: The Cost of Living Jewishly (was Re: O-C-R debate)
Organization: Dept. of Electronics, Carleton University
Date: Wed, 29 Jul 1992 13:28:26 GMT

In <1992Jul29.051927.21181@lmpsbbs.comm.mot.com> markr@mot.com (Mark) writes:

>Day school will always be expensive, but there is no need for schools to
>spend an average of 6-8K per student.

I don't know about that.  What does the public system cost?  I'm sure
it must be in the same ballpark.

>There are some things schools can
>do to reduce their costs, it seems they have gotten very fat and happy
>lately.  An average day school with a few hundred students can get by with
>only 2-3 administrators.  They can get rid of the career advisors and the
>psychologists, etc, we can't afford them.

But that may decrease the quality of education, making the private schools
less attractive.

--
                     |         | "Step up and shake the hand
David F. Skoll       | ||||||| |  Of someone you can't stand,
|_ _ _  __   __ _ __ |  \\V//  |  You can tolerate him if you try..."
 / |  | |_|   | |  | |  __|__  |  -- Tom Lehrer, "National Brotherhood Week"
_____|________________________________________________________________________


Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
From: rivk@quads.uchicago.edu (nora gayle rivkis)
Subject: Re: Anti-Orthodoxy (was Re: O-C-R debate)
Reply-To: rivk@midway.uchicago.edu
Organization: University of Chicago Computing Organizations
Date: Fri, 31 Jul 1992 04:19:18 GMT

In article <EGGERTJ.92Jul30234006@moses.atc.ll.mit.edu> eggertj@atc.ll.mit.edu writes:
>In article <3982@novavax.UUCP> mitch@novavax.UUCP (Mitch Silverman) writes:
>>   The fact that I hew to a rather "progressive" view of Judaism (I'm a
>>   Reconstructionist with humanitic tendencies) doesn't faze [a rabbi]--much.
>>   ... He even had me to dinner at his
>>   home--_after_ I told him I didn't believe in a supreme being.  (Of
>>   course, he asked me (rather incredulously)  if I was serious--I don't
>>   really think he can accept such a belief.
>
>What brand of Judaism doesn't allow the existence of a supreme being?

None of them don't allow it. The Reconstructionists allow the possibility
of the nonexistence, but don't push it.

>=Jim  eggertj@atc.ll.mit.edu (Jim Eggert)

	-Nora
From: afarkas@phoenix.Princeton.EDU (Andrew Farkas)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
Subject: Re: Hebrew school (was Re: O-C-R debate)
Date: 30 Jul 92 12:46:00 GMT
Organization: Princeton University
Originator: news@ernie.Princeton.EDU

In article <l7dkq7INN2th@appserv.Eng.Sun.COM> janiceg@marvin.Eng.Sun.COM writes:

>
>Is anyone here taking into account that parents who may not be that 
>observant in the home are still trying to give their kids a Jewish 
>identity?  Would you rather the parents gave the kids no Jewish 
>education at all?

Clearly some education is better than none, but any parent who is not
observant, and seeks to give their kids a Jewish identity through
Hebrew school cannot (in general) be successful.  I've taught in 
Hebrew schools, and in my experience if parents are not observant
Hebrew school will not help.  Kids are smart enough to see that
their parents are not observant, and that lack of identity makes a
far bigger impression than does any classroom learning (such as
it is in Hebrew school).

Send your kids to yeshiva or send them to Hebrew school, but if you
want them to be and live as Jews you must set an example in your own
life.  No amount of discussions or studying, say about the importance
of shabbat, can counteract practice.  If a child learns hilchot shabbat,
and sees his or her family is mehalel shabbat, what enduring lesson
will the child learn?

Education is important, and the more the better.  One cannot, however,
expect that Hebrew school can impart Jewish identity when that identity
is not to be found at home.

-- 
Andrew Farkas
AFarkas@phoenix.princeton.edu (Internet) AFarkas@pucc (Bitnet)
Organization: TECHNION - Israel Institute of Technology.
Date: Tuesday, 21 Jul 1992 15:27:20 IST
From: Irina Abramovici <CCAIIRE@TECHNION.BITNET>
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
Subject: Re: Israeli Arab factor in elections
 <1992Jul16.213709.10954@jade.tufts.edu> <2266@israel.nysernet.org>
 <4042@bimacs.BITNET>

>>>BUT you can't have your cake and eat it too!
>>
>>You can't even have your cake.  If democracy is for Jews only, soon it
>>will only be for some Jews, and eventually just for one.

>1. Conclusion : Warren fights for democracy for every one .
>2.  Conclusion : Warren fights for democracy for  KACH  and KOACH.
>3.   Conclusion  : Warren fights for the right of those two Rabbi
                    Kahana's parties to  run to the Knesset.

>BUT

>   Warren SAID NO WORD for the democratic rights of those  2 parties .
>
>So there is a catch here.

While I'm not Mr Burstein, I'll try answer your riddle: the clue is
that probably Mr Burstein fights for democracy for everyone, WITHIN the
frame of the law. Kach and Koach don't qualify. This is what the Central
Commitee for the Elections decided, and was supported by the Bagatz when
an appeal was filed. Cheers. Some logic!


Irina Abramovici
ccaiire@technion.technion.ac.il