HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: mattm@apple.com (Matthew Melmon)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: The Melmon Method (was Dworkin)
Date: 23 Dec 92 21:56:30 GMT
Followup-To: soc.motss
Organization: Apple Computer, Inc.

*A-hem*

Well, it seems I have pounced all over someone who was, in fact,
correctly interpreting my joke to begin with.  How horribly 
embarrassing.  Again, this is all the Squirrel's fault.  I *told*
him to use Johnny Cat.  But did he listen?  

Noooooooo...

And so, with apologies to DLM, one more time:

In article <168C5CC0E.SURGDM@mizzou1.missouri.edu>, DLM wrote:
> 
> In article <mattm-221292104543@mcmelmon.apple.com>
> mattm@apple.com (Matthew Melmon) writes:
>  
>    <fem-bashing, flame-baiting rhetoric deleted)
>  
> >heterosexual men would be well advised to at least
> >consider the fringe benefits of homosexuality...)
>  
> Aha! The *true* purpose of your attack on women! A method to your madness!
> (is it too late to mention that all you disillusioned het-women out
> can call me *any*time for advice?) ;-)

Note to the rabidly religious:  homosexuals DO NOT recruit...

*X*
From: shafer@spdcc.com (Mary Shafer)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: Small grooming question
Date: 29 Dec 92 18:23:42 GMT
Organization: S.P. Dyer Computer Consulting, Cambridge MA

In article <thaaang.725623801@cwis> thaaang@cwis.unomaha.edu (John Dorrance) writes:
>I don't know, would Nair work? (And, tangentally, would Nair work
>in more... delicate places?)

The Nair euphemism is "bikini line" and yes, it does work there, or so
says a friend of mine who has used it.  I'd keep it off mucous
membranes, though.
-- 
Mary Shafer  DoD #0362 KotFR  shafer@ursa-major.spdcc.com
From: Furr@cup.portal.com (George Dalton Madison)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: Dworkin as social-constructionist (was Re: what is a man-ha
Date: Sun,  3 Jan 93 19:26:53 PST
Organization: The Portal System (TM)
  <0fEeru200WB8I6Ms17@andrew.cmu.edu>

Tom Lord writes:
>>Well, you know Tom, I don't think the fact that I might enjoy
>>watching gay porn is, 1) any of Andrea Dworkin's business, or
>>2) *is* violence against women, as Dworkin would have us
>>believe.
>Why don't you meet her arguments, instead of her conclusions?

Because the conclusions are utterly ludicrous?  Not to mention
*OFFENSIVE* in the extreme -- Dworkin's assertion that gay male
porn is degrading to women because one of the men is playing a
female role is simple proof that she's as ignorant and bigoted
towards gay men as she feels straight men are against women.

 
() The imposition of stigma is the commonest form of
() violence used in democratic societies.
()      -- R. A. Pinker
-----
[> George D. Madison | NBCS: B8f+t+w-e+s+k+a!cv | Just say NO to razors! <]
[> It's a BEAR thing -- you wouldn't understand. <|> furr@cup.portal.com <]
From: mara@panix.com (Mara Chibnik)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: Dworkin (was Re: Liberty)
Date: 31 Dec 92 11:07:15 GMT
Organization: (getting there)



anderson@macc.wisc.edu (Jess Anderson) writes:
  >>Dworkin has no real power; Pat Robertson does.
dyer@spdcc.com (Steve Dyer) writes:
 >Dwokin, in cahoots with Catherine MacKinnon, has had a much greater
 >effect in legal and civil rights circles than Robertson ever had.
 >In any case, if it weren't for this, I think she'd languish in
 >obscurity as a polemicist.

I don't agree about the power.  MacKinnon and Dworkin are noticeable
because the people most likely to pay attention to them are
otherwise fairly liberal (by the standards of this society).
Robertson fits right into a kind of mainstream power bloc to the
tune that he's simply one among many, all with the same ideas.  

So, who has more power?  And does it matter?

-- 

  Mara Chibnik
  mara@panix.com                Life is too important to be taken seriously.
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: rjwill6@PacBell.COM (Rod Williams)
Subject: Re: "The Crying Game"
Organization: Pacific * Bell, San Ramon, California
Date: Wed, 30 Dec 1992 23:50:32 GMT

> adolphso@mizar.usc.edu (adolphson) writes:
>> rjwill6@pbsdts.sdcrc.pacbell.com (Rod Williams) writes:
>
>> I can't recommend this film highly enough. 
>
>You're the second person I've heard this from.
>
>> ...  The director is Neil Jordan, who also made "The
>> Miracle," "High Spirits," "Mona Lisa," and "The Company of
>> Wolves."
>
>What?!  No mention that it stars the *brilliant* 
>Miranda Richardson?

It does indeed feature the *brilliant* Miranda Richardson
(who I assumed was of the Tony/Vanessa/Natasha/Joely clan
until recently informed otherwise) in a supporting role.  I
should also add that "The Crying Game" is one of the most
moral -- in the very best sense of the word -- films I've
seen in ages.
-- 
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
rod williams -=- pacific bell -=- san ramon, ca -=- rjwill6@pacbell.com
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
From: rogerk@queernet.org (Roger B.A. Klorese)
Subject: Re: Private antidiscrimination policies in CO (was Re: Attention...)
Date: Fri, 1 Jan 1993 01:41:52 GMT
Organization: QueerNet

In article <1i02j7INNfoi@hp-col.col.hp.com> smithw@col.hp.com (Walter Smith) writes:
>anderson@macc.wisc.edu (Jess Anderson) writes:
>> You *have* heard of enmity arising from homophobia, yes?
>
>Well, I've never personally seen it in action, but I'll take 
>your word for it.  

Then you've never heard a fag joke, I take it?  Or perhaps you've never
worked with anyone whose company-blessed marriage, complete with
prerequisite non-working wifey, helped grease his way up the sales/marketing
ladder?
-- 
ROGER B.A. KLORESE                                              +1 415 ALL-ARFF
rogerk@unpc.QueerNet.ORG              {ames,decwrl,pyramid}!sgiblab!unpc!rogerk
"Normal is not something to aspire to, it's something to get away from."
                                                                   -- J. Foster
Xref: sparky soc.motss:53572 alt.politics.homosexuality:8392
From: thaaang@cwis.unomaha.edu (John Dorrance)
Subject: Re: Posting Styles
Organization: University of Nebraska at Omaha
Date: Fri, 1 Jan 1993 00:55:09 GMT

But Kate, you don't understand. I'm a complete bum. They'd have to
be very stupid to give me a credit card. I'm just hoping that Greg
is very stupid.

John, planning on filling out a form anyway...

--
thaaang@cwis.unomaha.edu * John Dorrance * Disco Diva y Flamenco Chico

      You would be surprised at what resides in your insides.
From: aberson@enh.nist.gov
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: RE: long-term relationships...success stories, please...
Date: 29 Dec 92 21:57:24 GMT
Organization: NIST

In a previous article, bcapps@agora.rain.com (Brent Capps) wrote:
>It's been my observation that there are four 'crisis periods' in a 
>relationship...
[<deleted]
>Finally, sometime between 7 and 10 years you will resign yourself
>to hearing the following question every evening for the rest of your 
>life: "I dunno, what do YOU want to do for dinner?"

I guess this means you haven't reached the "What?  You want to have sex
again?  I'm too tired.  Didn't we just do it last month?" phase yet.

Sim Aberson   Ft. Lauderdale, FL   aberson%3328.span@sdsc.edu
"Home is where your roof landed" - t-shirt seen in Miami
From: gklein@uoft02.utoledo.edu (Gary Klein, bear-at-heart)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: EE statements (was: Re: Attention Skiers Boycotting Colorado)
Date: 31 Dec 92 21:08:00 EST
Organization: Univ of Toledo

In article <1htacqINN7mr@hp-col.col.hp.com>, smithw@col.hp.com (Walter Smith) 
writes:
> dauber@tattoo.mti.sgi.com (Jeff Dauber) writes:
>> Let's see... I know of many cases at San Francisco General Hospital...

>> Why would this surprise you?
> 
> Because I've never seen it, my wife (who works in HR) has never seen 
> it, and I've never heard about any.  Can you give details?

     Walter, I am glad to see that you have such an open mind about these sorts
of issues.  It is almost like someone saying "I don't believe that gays exist,
since I have never met any in MY home town".

     Wake up and smell the roses!

     Your wife works in Human Resources, and she has NEVER heard of any
corporation being the subject of an investigation or audit by the NLRB or the
state/federal EEOC?

     Shit happens, and so does illegal job terminations!  Just because it is
illegal doesn't mean that it doesn't happen!

     Just look at Senator Packwood, and the fact that people claim that sexual
harrasment doesn't occur in the workplace -- then why has the U.S. Senate and
the House of Representatives exempted itself from the same degree of fines &
punishment that are otherwise CODIFIED for the 99.99% of the other residents of
the USA?

     If it is illegal to drive a car under the influence of alcohol, then why
do so many people continue to put their lives at risk, at the steering wheel
each and every News Year Eve?  It's illegal, therefore it shouldn't be
happening.

     But, once again, I point out that shit happens!
-- 
"Not your average Leathered Librarian"
      * * * *          Gary Klein,   Business Librarian,   Univ of Toledo
       *   *                     P.O.Box 12650 / Toledo OH 43606
        * *            WORK:   419-537-2629            HOME: 419-243-2740
         *             BITNET: fac2813@uoft01           FAX: 419-537-2726
  B4 t+ w- g s+ k              INTERNET: fac2813@uoft01.utoledo.edu
From: waveland@carson.u.washington.edu (Eric Holeman)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: Dworkin (was Re: Liberty)
Date: 30 Dec 1992 09:55:41 GMT
Organization: University of Washington, Seattle
NNTP-Posting-Host: carson.u.washington.edu

In article <1hrfotINNehf@mizar.usc.edu> adolphso@mizar.usc.edu (adolphson)
 writes:

>I'm not particularly interested in the numbers game.  Yes, our
>culture is misogynist (and racist, and homophobic, and classist,
>and...) to the core.  That does not excuse the kind of hate-filled 
>trash that flows from the pens of the Dworkins and Farrakhans 
>of the world.

No, but it certainly goes a long way toward explaining it.

That aside, Dworkin's emotions toward men don't concern me nearly 
so much as her attempts to legislate away the First Amendment.  
She can loathe me until the cows come home, for all I care, but 
I'd appreciate it if she'd keep her nose away from my bookshelf.  


Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: s0xjg@exnet.co.uk (Xavier Gallagher)
Subject: Cramer is our problem too.
Summary: And he can't be ignored.
Organization: ExNet Systems Ltd Public Access News, London, UK
Date: Thu, 31 Dec 1992 00:19:47 GMT

I have got yet more mail asking me to stop posting on Cramer threads.

The logic seems to be that he is not a motss issue.

Well, if homophobia and ignorance are not motss issues what are?

No, don't tell me...haircuts.....new shoes...$700 silk shirts..
..that new Tom Cruise movie.. 







Cramer is a motss 'issue'.

                       HE TELLS LIES ABOUT US.


I should think everyone knows about the concept of "the big lie".
Well, in ignoring Cramer you play into his hands.  Your silence
indicates guilt.  Your silence indicates agreement.  In being
silent you become one of the silent majority,  how many acts
of petty spite and ignorance have been justifed in the name of the 
silent majority?

Those of you who do not like Cramer in the group can use the 'n'
key.  Just the way I will when I get bored with him. 

Stop e-mailing me about the jerk.  (39 bits of e-mail)

Xave
-- 
** Xavier Gallagher                        ***********************************
** Genius, Plumber & Madman                ******* s0xjg@exnet.co.uk ********* 
** Part time Dark OverLord Of The Universe ***********************************
From: richard@Apple.COM (a flying squirrel)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: Devil CD's
Date: 21 Dec 92 18:08:18 GMT
Organization: Xiola Blue

Le Jojo:

>Richard, Richard. It isn't nice to tempt people with typical French
>elevator music. Not long away, so quickly you forget! Sitting on the
>Boulevard des Capuchines eating your steake frites, listening to
>"Theme from Midnight Expres" segue into "Iron Man", followed by
>Krautwerk "Trans Europe Express" to Nena "99 Luftbaloons" and finally
>Alice Cooper and "School's Out". Donna Summer back=to-back with the
>Ramones. Jim Morrison/Def Leppard. Bread/Edith Piaf/Joni Mitchell/Led
>Zeppelin/Don MacLean. Nightmarish, the only thing worse than Italian
>Pop Radio.

What were YOU listening to?  I only found (now defunct) Frequence Gai
to play anything near that eclectic.  There is Radio Brussel, but once
must drive north to receive it.  The first time I heard it was enroute
with a friend to Amsterdam; a very cute, scruffy boy of about 19 asked
us for a ride to Brussels.  We obliged and had a marvelous conversation
in english, french, and dutch (I didn't understand the dutch bits, sadly).
He smelled like he had been in his clothes for at least a week; his pale
skin contrasted by patches of dark week-old stubble.  Very intense eyes,
and he wanted to talk about all kinds of sixties rock and literature
icons.  I was smitten... my friend remarked that I had drooled all over
the top of my seat, which was false.  All the drool was contained in
my shorts. 

Perhaps it was what I ate: _never_ steak frites, dear.  Always steak
tartare (or steak Americaine, as they call it in Belgium) and hot,
greasy frites.  You can find it in that place with the menus outside,
the men dressed in black and white...
-- 
a flying squirrel is: richard@apple.com  Apple Computer Inc.

"Sex is a filter, and it admits a certain vision."  - William S. Burroughs
From: rdonahue@spdcc.com (Bob Donahue)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: The Boycott, and Colorado Happenings
Date: 31 Dec 92 03:27:30 GMT
Organization: insert anything here

kpm@druhi.ATT.COM (Kevin Malloy (DoD #106)) writes:

	[REAL information!  I knew I could count on Kevin...
	 (and he is so cute too!)]

	Ahem - anyway --- you know what scares me the most?

	We need to raise $1,000,000.00-plus to get CO out of the
fix it is in and meanwhile N times that for each state the decides
to emulate CO:2 in 1994.

	Unless we can start getting our community's ass in gear, that
ain't gonna happen.

	Here's the disgusting part --- $50M is less than $2 per
gay person in the US.  Less than the cover charge to your favorite
dance bar...  gee maybe if all of those bars were to turn over
their cover charges for a month.... Nah it would never happen.


	I'm going to start a piggy-bank - sure it's peanuts
but in a year's time I could make a donation that if asked for
right now I'd have to politely refuse.  And at least it'll be something.
Maybe we coupld pool piggy banks and sned in something as a group?

Bob


	
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: joe@spdcc.com (Joseph Francis)
Subject: Re: Coming out at work - HELP!
Organization: S.P. Dyer Computer Consulting, Cambridge MA
Date: Mon, 21 Dec 1992 13:09:17 GMT

In article <19DEC92.15444939@enh.nist.gov> aberson@enh.nist.gov writes:
>In a previous article, tdbear@dvorak.amd.com (Thomas D. Barrett) wrote:
>> 
>>And, if that ain't enough advertisment... rainbow coffee mugs are
>>pretty neat!
>
>It's a little too obscure for me at this point.  I've been looking for 
>something obvious, like one which says "Queer" or "Faggot."  Anyone have
>any suggestions?  One would think with all the witty t-shirts
>around, a coffee mug wouldn't be so difficult.
>
>Also, I've been looking for greeting or note cards lately, not necessarily 
>of the holiday type.  It is odd to me that I have such difficulty finding 
>nice lesbigay cards to send people.  There is a huge selection of naked 
>people cards all over, but nothing I've seen is exactly what I'm looking
>for to give to a motss lover for a holiday, birthday, or anniversary,
>or even just to friends.  I hate having to buy <generic card company>
>cards which are somewhat appropriate.

I had a group of polyethnic bear-oriented Santa Cards designed with
some cartoonists, but because of my lack of business timing and
capital-raising acumen, they were, alas, not to be. Next year. There
is /very little/ in the market as a whole because it is such a niche
thing, and believe me, if you look at the prices, you need to sell
lots (like 10-20,000 starts) to break into enough profit to have had
the company (more than 5 people) produce them. That's why virtually
all the naughty Christmas cards you see are not glb oriented. DTP has
made the design easier, but the nitty gritty facts of printing and
distribution have not changed at all. Most GLB oriented stuff you see
is made to be sold year-round - books, cards, notepads, teeshirts,
etc.

-- 
US Jojo; damp, slighly soiled, but tasty nonetheless.
From: snodgras@lclark.edu (Bil Snodgrass)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: EE statements (was: Re: Attention Skiers Boycotting Colorado)
Date: 31 Dec 92 00:23:11 GMT
Article-I.D.: lclark.1992Dec31.002311.28876
Organization: Lewis & Clark College, Portland OR

In article <1htdr4INN8sj@hp-col.col.hp.com> smithw@col.hp.com (Walter Smith) writes:
>rjwill6@PacBell.COM (Rod Williams) writes:
>> My own employer, though exemplary in many ways, professes not
>> to discriminate on the basis of marital status, yet
>> compensates married employees more than unmarried employees,
>> by offering significant company benefits to the partners of
>> married employees, but few to the partners of unmarried ones.
>
>If I'm following you right, you mean a married person can have 
>his spouse/dependants on his insurance, but a single person 
>can't have his roommate/unmarried SO on it?  Any other bennies 
>that the married people get better?  ie, can you explain in 
>more detail the discrepencies? 

My insurance premium is higher because I have to pay heterosexuals 
to have children.  So are the tax payers.

Married people all over the country are asking that their companies help
with child care...they are pushing the U.S. government real hard on
this one.  Again we have to pay for their children....


>
>> And this doesn't even address lower payment of single
>> employees.  

>
>When I was single, I didn't have a problem with married 
>people at my same level getting paid more; I figured they 
>needed it, as they had more responsibilities to take care 
>of.  I don't know that this is really an EE issue. 

This is wrong.  Why should companies give out welfare because people
are married?

>
>Walter

Bil Snodgrass

We also as a society have to pay to feed, clothe, house and render
medical care to neglected children.....
We have to pay for police protection to protect us from the teenage 
gangs.......

But for some reason the traditional family who use to do everything on
its own now has to have handouts from society and work to support their
habits.....
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: ds@netcom.com (David Schachter)
Subject: Re: Small grooming question
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services  (408 241-9760 guest) 
Date: Mon, 28 Dec 1992 21:03:54 GMT

Shower, soap, razor -> shaved

1. If you haven't shaved in a while, the skin may be unused to it.  The
   chances of nicking yourself are higher.

2. After a week or two, you'll notice fewer nicks, or none at all, because
   a. Your skin is tougher and
   b. You've learned what not to do (how not to hold the razor, how hard
      not to press, etc.)

3. Change razors every once in a while.  It is easy to fail to notice a
   dull razor, but dull razors don't cut very well.

4. Use one hand to pull the skin taut and the other to control the razor.
   Experiment with different grips on the razor, different angles with
   respect to the skin, and different directions of movement.

5. If you want to do a particularly complete job, after the first pass,
   make another pass using a washcloth to pull the skin tight.  The idea
   is to use the washcloth as a gripping pad to increase friction.

6. Your skin may be oiler and more reflective than you would like in a
   few hours.  A quick trip to the restroom will take care of that.

7. Experiment with different razors.  They provide distinctly different
   results.  I find the Gilette Good News! Microtrak razor to be far
   superior to the other brands I tried.  (And I was quite surprised at
   the difference-- I was expecting all razors to be pretty much the same.)

8. You mentioned "permanent" results.  For that, here are some choices:
   a. Electrolysis.  I've never heard of it on the skull, but it's pos-
      sible.  To dehair a skull would take about a year of calendar time
      and cost about $15,000, in my part of the country.
   b. Chemotherapy combined with radiotherapy.  The intent is to kill
      hair follicles without killing you.  Any doctor willing to prescribe
      this is probably guilty of malpractice and should be jailed.
   c. Third-degree burns.  Need I say more?
   d. Alopecia areata, alopecia totalis, etc.-- various diseases that kill
      follicles.
   e. Mites and other infestations.

   I doubt you meant "permanent" the way I think you meant it, but perhaps
   these options will help you decide.  Incidentally, an Epilady is not a
   good solution for two reasons: it isn't permanent and scalp hair is too
   dense.  If you use an Epilady on dense regions of hair, you risk causing
   permanent damage to the skin, with unsightly results.
    
    
-- 
 ____________________________________________________________________________
 David Schachter                                david@llustig.palo-alto.ca.us
 801 Middlefield Road, #8                            ...!decwrl!llustig!david
 Palo Alto, CA  94301-2916 USA      After 10 am, voice & fax: +1 415 328 7425
From: mattm@apple.com (Matthew Melmon)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: Ageism
Date: 23 Dec 92 21:24:09 GMT
Followup-To: soc.motss
Organization: Apple Computer, Inc.

In article <1992Dec23.194112.15834@spdcc.com>, joe@spdcc.com (Joseph
Francis) wrote:

> grow fierce moustaches again, and everthing was bush until about the
> 30's, when everything just went straight downhill until the 60's.

One of my design instructors complained along much the same lines.
His argument - partly humorous and partly serious - was that 
sexually frustrated gay fashion editors began "doing everything they
could to make the adult woman into a thirteen year old boy."

If - after the screams of *homophobia* die down - one looks at
the transformation of 'beauty' through this period, one can see
certain elements of truth in what he said.  The slender, gangly,
bobbish, androgynous female beauty icons *do* resemble thirteen-
year old boys.

Joseph is right in pointing out that the fascination with youth
has *not* been with us since the dawn of time.  Or, at the very
least, it has not been with us to the *degree* that it is with
us today.  And, member of the Male Chauvinist Pig Party that I
may be, I should point out that this thirteen-year-old-boy
transformation has not only hurt and alienated older gay men;
but it has been a constant source of torment to that much larger
segment of the population:  women who sexually frustrated 
gay fashion editors would *not* find in the least bit attractive.

*X*
From: d000dlphi@leo.bsuvc.bsu.edu (David Speakman)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: Pride Ring Colours on the Necklace
Date: 30 Dec 92 07:15:30 GMT
Distribution: world
Organization: Ball State University, Muncie, In - Univ. Computing Svc's

In article <1992Dec30.040349.6661@fcom.cc.utah.edu>, cc4507@u.cc.utah.edu (Chucki Carpinello) writes:
> Hey ..
> 
> 	I need to know where I can get a Pride Ring Necklace (?) at a good
> price innocently :)
> thanX
> -chucki

In Indiana (a state a little less republican than Utah) they are sold very
inexpensively in most shopping malls. Try earring stores and novelty places
like Spencers.

David Speakman