From: frantz@bvc.edu
Newsgroups: alt.horror
Subject: Barker and sex (was re: what is horror?)
Date: 18 Aug 92 09:03:00 CDT
Distribution: usa
Organization: Buena Vista College, Storm Lake, IA

In article <1992Aug17.175649.10226@pellns.alleg.edu>, iain@ttel.ling writes:
> In article <1992Aug17.161731.20016@mdd.comm.mot.com>  
> ketter@mdd.comm.mot.com (Cindy Ketterling) writes:
>> >>definition in horror (i.e. slasher movies, bad splatterpunk (not all  
>> >>splatterpunk is bad, though), overwritten rape scenes, overdone sexual  
>> >>devientcy ala Clive Barker). 
>> 
>> "overdone sexual devientcy"?  Ummmmm ... I'm afraid I'm really going to
>> have to disagree with you on that point.  One of the main reasons I
>> LIKE Barker is because at no point does his work deteriorate into the
>> same "oh, I'd better throw in a sex scene here or this story won't sell"
>> trap that so many horror authors fall into.  Yes, he does use sexual
>> elements in his work, and no, they're not always what you, Jerry  
> Falwell,
>> or actually even most people would consider normal, but it ALWAYS has a
>> place in the story.  There is a reason for it being there, and that
>> reason is NOT "because it sells books".  It's there because it's part
>> of the plot, or essential to character development, or just because its
>> something that people in that situation would do.  If you can't deal
>> with sex in a book, you should probobly be reading children's books or
>> 1950's science fiction, NOT modern horror.  
>> 
>> My motto:  "If it bugs ya, don't reads it." 
>> 
>> - the Cypherkat
> 
>    First of all I resent the comparison to Jerry Falwell.  I never said  
> Barker isan't a great writer I just think he over does it on occassion.  
> Let's take The Great and Secret Show for a good example. By the middle of  
> the book, I wanted to go for a swim in the dream sea. The next thing i  
> know i'm dragged kicking and screaming out of the story by a dog screwing  
> dead(?) woman. It was annoying. I realize it was an integral part of the  
> story and well written but it was still annoying to be pulled out of the  
> story by a good bout of beastiallity/necrophilia. 
>    As far as me writting children's books, I haven't tried it. I guess I  
> never really hit it of with the under-ten crowd. I just don't think  
> "Curious George Meets the Anti-GOD" would hit it off with the parents  
> either. If you think for one second that the bible-thumpers who try to ban  
> books like "The Hobbit" are going to allow "Pipe Dream" into their  
> seven-year-old's library, you're the one who belongs in the 1950's.
>    As far as not reading it, no can do. When ol' Clive come out with  
> another, I'll be the first to read it. Sorry.
> ------

> Vince


All flames aside, I'm interested in this line of discussion about Clive 
Barker's use of sex in his works.  I've read most (maybe all, I don't know) 
of the Books of Blood, the Inhuman Condition, Weaveworld, and am just 
finishing Imajica.  I agree that Barker employs a good deal of sex in his 
work--some of it is also anything but "mainstream."  But I think I've 
developed a pretty healthy appreciation for Barker's unabashed examination 
of sexuality being an integral part of the human condition, something we 
shouldn't be squeemish to discuss. I think he does it well, mostly because 
he's an exceptional writer, but also because he's willing to take risks.  
For example, in Imajica he creates an androgynous character whose sexuality 
helps define it and make it one of the most likeable characters in the book 
(keep in mind I'm not done with it yet--as I've learned with a lot of 
Barker's stuff, I suppose that last statement is certainly open to change). 
I like the fact that Pie can have equally good sex as both a man and a 
woman because I think Barker's saying, hey, sex is what you make it and 
it's a part of us we simply can't deny.

Also0, I'm impressed with the fact that Barker is unafraid to employ sex (
and, I might add, I have yet to find anything gratuitous in any of the sex 
scenes I've read) and he's an English.  This is *absolutely* not a flame 
against English writers.  I have read and loved a great many.  It's just 
that few of them tend to write a great deal about sex.  I think Barker 
breaks down some stereotypes.

Andrea @ BVC

Newsgroups: alt.horror