From: uunet!infmx!robert@ncar.UCAR.EDU (Robert Coleman)
Newsgroups: soc.feminism
Subject: Re: men's issues vs. women's issues
Date: 30 Jul 1992 22:05:06 GMT
Organization: Informix Software, Inc.
Distribution: world
NNTP-Posting-Host: remarque.berkeley.edu
Originator: muffy@remarque.berkeley.edu

farthing@leland.Stanford.EDU (ljf) writes:

>In article <1992Jul23.223314.528@ucc.su.OZ.AU> maxtal@extro.ucc.su.oz.au (John MAX Skaller) writes:
>>	Another issues that are *womens* issues? Like sexual
>>harassment! Your kidding if you think *that* one is a womens issue!
>>IMHO men are currently suffering MUCH worse from the politicisation
>>and emphasis on it---witness that I and other men attest that
>>they haven't the faintest idea how to approach a woman
>>safely (without fear of being accused of harasement)
>>
>>[Actually, I just say it is affecting men worse to stir: It affects
>>everyone.]

>It stirred me, that's for sure!  To say that hetero men are more
>affected by sexual harassment than women because now they're worried
>about how they come across is analogous to saying whites are more
>affected by racism because they can't figure out how to act without
>appearing racist.

>Let me give you some examples of sexual harassment and see if they
>measure up to your fear of not getting a date:

[ Examples deleted ]

>These four experiences are true.  IMO, your fear of being accused of
>sexual harassment for asking a woman out on a date is trivial compared
>to their experiences.

	You're right, except that what he's afraid of isn't failing to  get 
a date.  What he's afraid of is losing his job or going to jail, or being 
sued, all without having a reasonable chance of defending himself, or without
any understanding of where the lines are drawn (feminist judicial theory, 
supported by the Supreme Court, being that the determination of a crime should
be based on the "rational woman" standard, meaning, of course, that men can't
know the rules because of their gender).

	Sexual harassment is an example of an issue that wouldn't even *be*
a "men's issue" if it wasn't for the fact that the folks who've been
approaching it as a "women's issue" won't take men into account and try to
resolve it as a humanist issue.  There aren't very many men who approve of
the molestations you've described, and it would be very easy to pass laws
to deal with these situations, or get better enforcement of them after
educating the masses about their continued existence.
	Unfortunately, the choice to move from a "rational man" decision to a
"rational woman" decision instead of a "rational human being" decision means
that men literally do not know what seemingly innocent action of their will
be taken as sexual harassment, until the woman reacts.  This doesn't 
"equalize" the power imbalance, it inverts it.  Not surprisingly, a lot of 
men who would *never* approve of the molestations you've described find that 
they need to fight this type of sexual harassment thinking, or risk ending
up being victims themselves.
	We end up fighting each other, because without a balancing men's point
of view, the feminist approach becomes a power-grab rather than an equalization
move.  
	I wonder how many more women will be sexually harassed as we extend
the fight out over the years who might have been saved altogether if we were
working together?

Robert C.
-- 
----------------------------------------------
Disclaimer: My company has not yet seen fit to
	    elect me as spokesperson. Hmmpf.


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