HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: Gerry.Mulvenna@launchpad.unc.edu (Gerry Mulvenna)
Subject: Re: "The Crying Game" (movie)
Organization: The Queen's University of Belfast, Ireland
Date: Thu, 7 Jan 1993 11:38:11 GMT

I managed to see this film in Belfast's "arty" cinema the Queen's Film 
Theatre, where it was playing during the November Festival here.  It
played to a pretty full house for 3 weeks and I thoroughly enjoyed it.

It's main theme is not really anything to do with the political situation
in Ireland - to say what the real theme appeared to be (IMHO) would
probably be giving too much away.

Suffice to say - if you get the chance to see it, treat yourself :-).

Gerry  

--
   The opinions expressed are not necessarily those of the University of
     North Carolina at Chapel Hill, the Campus Office for Information
        Technology, or the Experimental Bulletin Board Service.
           internet:  laUNChpad.unc.edu or 152.2.22.80
From: HF.PEC@forsythe.stanford.edu (Doug Peckler)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.celtic
Subject: San Francisco festival
Date: 12 Jan 1993 10:19:47 -0800
Organization: Stanford University
NNTP-Posting-Host: morrow.stanford.edu

The second annual San Francisco Celtic music festival will be the
weekend of March 6 and 7.  Dolores Keane and Sharon Shannon are
confirmed; more performers will be announced soon no doubt.   I'll
post any more info I hear about.  Save the dates!
From: mike@shemesh.lbl.gov (Michael Helm)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.celtic
Subject: Re: Feudalism
Date: 5 Jan 93 02:14:31 GMT
Reply-To: mike@shemesh (Michael Helm)
Organization: N.I.C.E.
NNTP-Posting-Host: 128.3.128.63

nsmca@acad3.alaska.edu writes:
>Serfdom and such. I know that in many areas how feudalism came about was
>because of people who for one reason or another could not defend them selves
>against namely wandering brigades/tribes. Well they turned to person who had
>some military strength.. Originally a person would "sell" there land to the now

I have never studied the history of this subject, just encountered
feudalism as an institution while studying other aspects of the middle
ages.  I supposed that part of the origin of feudalism was from the
way the Roman latifundia were organized, these huge estates that had
serfs on them to work the land -- serf being another form of slave,
for all practical purposes.  But at the top, the system was a lot
different.  I had thot that, for example, the Carolingian kings
granted away almost all their real estate to various local lords or
whatnots because they couldn't keep them under control any other way
(with the result that the king of France was one of the more minor
local lords by the 10th or 11th century).  And in turn, these great
lords unloaded parts of their domains to more local lords for the same
reason.  In theory, they were bound together by various obligations &
regulations but in practice quis custodiet custodes?  On the other
hand, you get the impression reading about those times that all the
local lords were "equals" in some sense, not hierarchically ordered
except to the king; maybe that is the result of later leveling of
titles or just a condition of the periods I happened to be reading
about; I don't know.

I'm not sure whether the above is accurate or not & don't know how
it relates to what you said, other than as a different viewpoint.
Xref: sparky soc.culture.celtic:8587 soc.culture.british:18269 sci.archaeology:3131 soc.history:10593
From: newt@dcs.glasgow.ac.uk (Michael Steven Newton)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.celtic,soc.culture.british,sci.archaeology,soc.history
Subject: Re: Britain/Ireland 400-1100 AD+
Date: 7 Jan 93 08:39:46 GMT
Organization: Glasgow University Computing Science Dept.

>In article <28193@dog.ee.lbl.gov>, mike@fionn.lbl.gov (Michael Helm) writes:
>> I'm going to be taking a class in about a month on the archaeology
>> of the period 400-1100 AD in Britain & Ireland.  I'm interested in
>> doing some reading about this period beforehand, preferably not
>> narrowly archaeological in nature (save that for the class).
>> I'd prefer good references to books on its political & cultural / art
>> history, & anything else that mite help my understanding of the
>> period. I'm fairly well acquainted with material on Ireland, somewhat
>> on the Anglo-Saxon kingdoms, & pretty much clueless about Scotland
>> & the other Celtic kingdoms of Britain, during that period.
>> 
>> Thanks,
>> ==mwh

  Read "Warlords and Holy Men: Scotland 50 to 1000 AD".  I think the
other author is Smyth.
From: esh2@po.CWRU.Edu (Evelyn S. Hlabse)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.celtic
Subject: Re: Accents
Date: 7 Jan 1993 19:03:32 GMT
Organization: Case Western Reserve University, Cleveland, OH (USA)
Reply-To: esh2@po.CWRU.Edu (Evelyn S. Hlabse)
NNTP-Posting-Host: thor.ins.cwru.edu


In a previous article, dolonsgh@unix1.tcd.ie (DL) says:

>Shetland islanders in news reports seemed to be speaking in an accent
>closer to Northern Ireland than Scotland.
>Did anyone else notice this?
>Does anyone know why their accent is like that?
>
>Donal O Loingsigh
>dolonsgh@unix1.tcd.ie
>
>
If you listen even more closely you'll find that the accent is more
Norwegian than anything else.  The Shetland and Orkney Islands once
belonged to Norway.  I think they were part of the dowery paid when
Queen Margaret married the king of Scotland. The accent has a definite
lilt to it.  I think it is very pleasant but then I'm an Orcadian who
still has an accent after 30 years in the US.

-- 

Xref: sparky soc.culture.celtic:8578 soc.culture.china:34045 soc.culture.cis:61 soc.culture.croatia:325 soc.culture.czecho-slovak:610
From: katherim@fraser.sfu.ca (Katherine Merle Mason)
Subject: Re: Kilts
Organization: Simon Fraser University, Burnaby, B.C., Canada
Date: Mon, 11 Jan 1993 19:41:51 GMT

newt@dcs.glasgow.ac.uk (Michael Steven Newton) writes:

>>>newt@dcs.glasgow.ac.uk (Michael Steven Newton) writes:
>>>
>>That wearing tartan etc wasn't prohibited:

>>And Katherine writes that it was:

>>I have no historical info to add to this, though I hope you two can
>>resolve this for us.

>  The Prohibition banned males not in the army from wearing it, to repeat
>myself!  That means, if your set theory is shaky, that females or military
>men could wear it.  Nor was it practically enforced in any but a few
>trouble spots.

Perhaps I did not make myself clear.  My reference books all state that
the law (which I quoted) applied to all.  As I also said, it is possible
that all my books are just perpertrating the myth, ie, they heard
if from someone, so they wrote it.  Someone reading this, assumes it is
true and restates it etc.  An examination of the primary (not secondary
ie., summas & histories) sources is definetly in order here.  It is quite
possible that the law only applied to women and civilian men.

Katherine Merle Mason
Newsgroups: soc.culture.celtic
From: eac@world.std.com (Eric A Cottrell)
Subject: Re: Accents
Organization: The World Public Access UNIX, Brookline, MA
Date: Fri, 8 Jan 1993 16:15:07 GMT

In <CC.93Jan8105513@arran.dcs.ed.ac.uk> cc@dcs.ed.ac.uk (Chris Cooke) writes:

>Apparently, it was quite common until a couple of hundred years ago for
>islanders there to speak Norn, a dialect of old Norse.  So a touch of
>Scandinavian in their accents would make sense.  According to a recent TV
>programme, the Shetland dialect of Scots still has a lot of Norse words in
>it. 

I found in my travels in Scotland that the Edinburgh to Glascow area has the
strongest accents. I have a friend in Perth that I have now a fair under-
standing of what he says. I thought it was interesting that a group of 
friends in Perth commented they have trouble understanding people from
Stirling.
I also discovered that Britain is not a single homogenous or four (English/
Welsh/Scottish/Northern Irish) homogenous cultures. Although there are
common elements, each area has it's own differences that make them an
interesting place to visit. I find movies and tv tend to portray only the
common elements or the "main stream" cultures.
73 Eric eac@world.std.com
From: newt@dcs.glasgow.ac.uk (Michael Steven Newton)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.celtic
Subject: Re: Any Celtic Conferences due this year??
Date: 11 Jan 93 09:07:13 GMT
Organization: Glasgow University Computing Science Dept.


>some net-shy colleagues of mine are interested in finding out what (if any)
>conferences on celtic issues are scheduled this year, anywhere in the world.

Some that I know of:
  "Briseadh Amach -- Breaking the Hermetic Seal", Boston College.
   March 19-20.  Call 617-783-4840 for info.

  "Annual Conference of the Celtic Studies Association of North America",
   University of Washington, Seattle.  April 22-25.
   Info: jjcrump@u.washington.edu

  "1993 California Celtic Conference", U.C.Berkeley.  March 5-7.
   Contact: dmelia@garnet.berkeley.edu
From: morna@dcs.ed.ac.uk (Morna J Findlay)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.celtic
Subject: Re: Kilts
Date: 5 Jan 93 12:01:31 GMT
Reply-To: morna@dcs.ed.ac.uk (Morna J Findlay)
Organization: Laboratory for the Foundations of Computer Science, Edinburgh U

In article <40XswB1w165w@suction.acme.gen.nz> scimitar@suction.acme.gen.nz (Robert Singers) writes:

>Thanks for all the discussion.  I would be interested though in finding 
>out if laws have (or do) exist covering the wearing of tartan.
>

There are definately no laws covering the wearing of a particular
tartan. The only law that ever existed r.e. Tartan was the one banning
it's wearing by anyone, after the 1745 rebellion.

M

-- 
Morna Findlay 					JANET:morna@uk.ac.ed.dcs 
	Thanksgiving For a National Victory (Robert Burns)
Ye hypocrites! are these your pranks? To murder men and give God thanks?
Desist, for shame! Proceed no further: God won't accept your thanks for murther.
Newsgroups: soc.culture.celtic
From: bvaughan@sheps.Princeton.EDU (Barbara Vaughan)
Subject: Re: Dual citizenship
Originator: news@nimaster
Organization: Princeton University
Date: Thu, 7 Jan 1993 23:34:00 GMT

In article <1993Jan7.104053.27205@dcs.qmw.ac.uk> mmh@dcs.qmw.ac.uk (Matthew Huntbach) writes:
>In article <MfGmT0K00UhB426Jda@andrew.cmu.edu> ks5c+@andrew.cmu.edu (Kathleen Marie Shanks) writes:
>>Does anyone know if someone with Scottish grandparents can get a
>>Scottish/EC passport?  I know those with an Irish grandparent can, I was
>>wondering if it worked the same way with Scotland.
>>
>There is no such things as a "Scottish passport". Scotland is
>treated just the same as any other part of the UK as far as
>getting British nationality is concerned.
>
And, no, it's not possible.

Barbara Vaughan

Newsgroups: soc.culture.celtic,ne.general,ne.seminars
From: MICHAEL.WILLETT@OFFICE.WANG.COM ("Michael Willett")
Subject: Ireland speakers in Boston March 16
Organization: Mail to News Gateway at Wang Labs
Date: Mon, 11 Jan 1993 20:42:45 GMT

The business breakfast speakers during Ireland week at the
Ritz Carlton hotel in Boston March 16 are as follows:

           "Business Investment in Ireland: North and South"
              Presented by the Irish American Partnership:
          The Honorable Liam Canniffe, Consul General of Ireland;
              Lian Connellan, Director General,
              Confederation of Irish Industries;
        Joseph Leary, Jr., President, Irish-American Partnership

Michael.Willett@OFFICE.Wang.com
From: newt@dcs.glasgow.ac.uk (Michael Steven Newton)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.celtic
Subject: Re: Kilts and the '45
Date: 11 Jan 93 08:49:54 GMT
Organization: Glasgow University Computing Science Dept.

>With regard to the discussion as to whether there are any laws regarding 
>the wearing of a particular tartan, I noticed an article in this month's
>Highlander magazine. It is by Alastair Campbell of Airds, Unicorn Pursuivant
>of Arms, Lord Lyon Court. He begins:

>	Often over the years one has heard people explaining how they
>	have "the right' or that they are "entitled" to weaar this or
>	that tartan.
>	In fact no such right, in any legal sense, exists for them or
>	for anyone else. The only considerations which govern the wearing
>	of a particular sett are usage and good taste.

>He concludes:

>	In a word, wear any tartan you like, but if it is not that of the
>	clan to which you belong, don't invent a reason for wearing it other
>	than you like it!

  Don't get confused between legal rights, and social conventions, tradition
and good graces.  It's not against the law to scratch your bum, but it's not
good company to do so.

mn
Xref: sparky soc.culture.celtic:8568 soc.culture.british:18235
From: mmh@dcs.qmw.ac.uk (Matthew Huntbach)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.celtic,soc.culture.british
Subject: Re: This Favorite Lie Again.
Date: 6 Jan 93 10:15:50 GMT
Organization: Computer Science Dept, QMW, University of London, UK.

In article <1993Jan5.183013.21612@philabs.philips.com> dml@philabs.philips.com (Damian M. Lyons) writes:
>Ireland would be just as bad and I haven't argued for that. I have argued
>that the British Government needs to take unilateral action to shore up
>the rights and voting power of the nationalist minority in NI, as a
>recompense for the creation of NI and its subsequent effects.

But this is precisely what has been done. The British
government unilaterally closed down Northern Ireland's devolved
government, and won't restore it until the Unionists agree to a
power-sharing system. The British government has unilaterally
introduced proportional representation into local elections
there (pity they haven't in the rest of the UK) to avoid the
distortions and gerrymandering that can occur under the
first-past-the-post system. What else do you expect them to do
- give every Catholic two votes?

Matthew Huntbach
Xref: sparky soc.culture.celtic:8662 soc.culture.british:18511
From: smckinty@sunicnc.France.Sun.COM (Steve McKinty - Sun ICNC)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.celtic,soc.culture.british
Subject: Re: This Favorite Lie Again.
Date: 11 Jan 1993 16:38:02 GMT
Organization: SunConnect
Distribution: world
NNTP-Posting-Host: hardy.france.sun.com

In article <1993Jan11.115354.50103@ccvax.ucd.ie>, mntneer@ccvax.ucd.ie writes:

> As my memory serves, that NI government was ended after a general strike by the
> "unionist" population. It would be more accurate to say they acceeded to "strong
> persuasion"
> Curiously, it is one of the only (if not the only) general strike that achieved
> its aims.
>
It's debatable how 'general' it was. Once you close down the power stations
most commerce & industry is forced to close as well.

Steve

-- 
Steve McKinty
SUN Microsystems ICNC
38240 Meylan, France
email: smckinty@france.sun.com	   BIX: smckinty
From: newt@dcs.glasgow.ac.uk (Michael Steven Newton)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.celtic
Subject: Re: Kilts
Date: 11 Jan 93 15:40:09 GMT
Organization: Glasgow University Computing Science Dept.

>>newt@dcs.glasgow.ac.uk (Michael Steven Newton) writes:
>>
>That wearing tartan etc wasn't prohibited:

>And Katherine writes that it was:

>I have no historical info to add to this, though I hope you two can
>resolve this for us.

  The Prohibition banned males not in the army from wearing it, to repeat
myself!  That means, if your set theory is shaky, that females or military
men could wear it.  Nor was it practically enforced in any but a few
trouble spots.

>Reaching as far north as Inveraray in their travels, his protaganists
>note that the local highlanders are no longer allowed to wear their beloved 
>Philabegs or tartan and that this has depressed them greatly.

>However, later in the same chapter, they stay with the Duke of Argyll,
>and mention that he has a piper who wears the kilt.

>Whether this is a contradiction in terms or not, I don't know! I
>suppoise it depends on who was or wasn't allowed to wear it.

  Well, probably the Duke of Argyll had sufficient militaary ties to
exclude him and his army from the ban.  But I don't know much about the
guy, so go figure.

mn
From: newt@dcs.glasgow.ac.uk (Michael Steven Newton)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.celtic
Subject: Re: '45 ( Was: Kilts)
Date: 8 Jan 93 09:59:25 GMT
Organization: Glasgow University Computing Science Dept.

morna@dcs.ed.ac.uk (Morna J Findlay) writes:

>>> tartan. The only law that ever existed r.e. Tartan was the one banning
>>> it's wearing by anyone, after the 1745 rebellion.
>>
>>Yeah I thought I had read something about that.  Sorry I only have a 
>>vague idea of european history.  When was the law repealed?  ANd what 
>>was the 1745 rebellion?

>After his escape, many punitive measures were exacted on the Higland
>people, including attempts to destroy their culture, such as the banning
>of highland dress, playing of pipes and use of Gaelic.

  Again, more modern myths and misunderstandings.  The Prohibition Act
is very short and worth reading
  It only outlaws "kilts" (that is, filimors and filibeags), and only by men,
who are not enlisted in the army (actually, I think it says "Highland dress",
so I don't remember if tartan or fili's are specified -- should look at
this again).  So women, or men in the army, were free to continue wearing
it.
  It is clear that all aspects of Gaelic and Scottish culture were
oppressed, in word and action, but the Prohibition says *nothing* about
bagpipes or Gaelic.

mn
Newsgroups: soc.culture.celtic
From: ntaib@silver.ucs.indiana.edu (Iskandar Taib)
Subject: Re: Kilts
Organization: Indiana University
Date: Tue, 5 Jan 1993 19:03:56 GMT

In article <BzH3Eo.4Mv@dcs.glasgow.ac.uk> jack@dcs.glasgow.ac.uk (Jack Campin) writes:
>
>scimitar@suction.acme.gen.nz (Robert Singers) wrote:
>> 1:  How is a person's right to wearing a particular clan tarten 
>>     determined.  Also how is clan affliation determined.
>
>Go to a tartan shop in the high street of a Scottish tourist destination and
>look for a chart saying what clan your name is associated with.
>
>The Hasegawas are a sept of the Campbells and the beni Hashem of the MacLeods,
>of course.  Perhaps for the Cohens a connection with the Brahan Seer might be
>thinkable.

This takes the cake for being the funniest post in the Kilt'n'Tartan Wars
I've come across 9-) Had me chuckling for half an hour or so...



-- 
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Iskandar Taib                          | The only thing worse than Peach ala
Internet: NTAIB@SILVER.UCS.INDIANA.EDU |    Frog is Frog ala Peach
Bitnet:   NTAIB@IUBACS                 !
From: morna@dcs.ed.ac.uk (Morna J Findlay)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.celtic
Subject: Re: Accents
Date: 11 Jan 93 12:42:09 GMT
Reply-To: morna@dcs.ed.ac.uk (Morna J Findlay)
Organization: Laboratory for the Foundations of Computer Science, Edinburgh U

In article <1993Jan9.134128.11182@vax.oxford.ac.uk> halpin@vax.oxford.ac.uk writes:
>In article <C0JKss.78w@dcs.ed.ac.uk>, morna@dcs.ed.ac.uk (Morna J Findlay)
>writes:
>
>> In article <1993Jan7.202331.11138@vax.oxford.ac.uk> halpin@vax.oxford.ac.uk
>writes:
>
>>>I caught a bit of "Whisky Galore" on TV over Christmas, though, and
>>>I thought the Barra accent was quite remarkable: softer than much
>>>Scots, quite like the south and west of Ireland (and _not_ like
>>>relatively adjacent Donegal).
>> 
>> That is because it's a Gaelic-speaking area.
>
>But so is Donegal (at least in part), and that's what surprised me.
>

Oh - sorry - didn't read your post properly then.

Hmm... in that case I have no answer, other than to wonder if speaking
the same language neccesarily makes two people sound alike to a
non-speaker, if that's not too incoherently expressed.

For example,

While queueing to go up the Eiffel tower with two Scottish pals, three
lads behind us in the queue discussed us in German, going through a list
of our possible nationalities. Swedish? Irish? Dutch? Polish?

They didn't consider us to be English speakers at all, though when we
spoke to them in German and told them that we were Scots, we then had a
conversation in English and were all prefeclty able to comprehend one
another.

People here in Edinburgh speak quite differently from those in
Newcastle, and it's only 90 minutes away.

M


-- 
Morna Findlay 					JANET:morna@uk.ac.ed.dcs 
	Thanksgiving For a National Victory (Robert Burns)
Ye hypocrites! are these your pranks? To murder men and give God thanks?
Desist, for shame! Proceed no further: God won't accept your thanks for murther.
From: nsmca@acad3.alaska.edu
Newsgroups: soc.culture.celtic
Subject: Colors, Kilt, Social Class
Date: 4 Jan 93 23:57:43 GMT
Organization: University of Alaska Fairbanks

I know that in ancient Irish society the more colors you wore the higher your
social class.. Migth also explain the Scots habit of Tartans and Kilts..
Also heard that the old style kilt at time was also used as a early form of
camoflage.. (ever seen a Stewart Tarten dirty, it makes good camoflage)

I know part of my family is Hickeys, supposedly comes from the old Irish for
healer.. 

==
==
Michael Adams alias Ghost Wheel/Morgoth NSMCA@acad3.alaska.edu
From: masmm@gdr.bath.ac.uk (M McGettrick)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.celtic
Subject: New traditional Irish music list
Date: 4 Jan 93 12:32:24 GMT
Organization: School of Mathematics, University of Bath, UK


A new list on traditional Irish music has just been started. To subscribe to
it send the command

subscribe irtrad-l put-your-name-hear

to listserv@irlearn.ucd.ie, or for more info send the command help to the
same address.

Michael Mc Gettrick
Newsgroups: soc.culture.celtic
From: kelley@phecda (Sean Kelley)
Subject: Re: "The Crying Game" (movie)
Organization: Lockheed Sanders, Inc., Nashua, NH
X-Newsreader: Tin 1.1 PL4
Date: Thu, 7 Jan 93 17:52:12 GMT

8806748@ul.ie writes:
:   [ stuff deleted ]
:   there is an interesting point here.
: 	I live in Limerick, pop 100,000 (very approx). There is one 5 screen
: cinema. It is currently showing Into the West, Death Becomes Her, A Few Good Men
: The BodyGuard, and Home Alone 2. Over the entire period of 1992 I would say it's
: shown fewer than 5 non-American movies. I am not being critical of the US movie
: industry, they just make the films, we go to see them. And there's not 
: neccessarily anything wrong with that. It's just interesting...
: 	As for my own opinion of The Crying Game, I can't say. It hasn't come to
: our cinema at all yet, and it may not make it at all. Neil Jordan's last movie,
: The Miracle (a wonderful film, very underrated) played to an audience of 4 when
: I went to see it during it's first and last week here, while Lethal Weapon 3 
: played here for 2 months recently. 
: 					John McDonnell,
: 					eternal student,
: 					Univ. Limerick.
: 		

Yeah, I noticed that same American film predominance in Dublin theaters.
When I'm able to get a copy of the Irish Times, usually 2 weeks old, I 
notice that the Movie section is almost entirely current American releases.
But, I assume that probably holds true everywhere; with the exception
of the French! ( Mais, Non!   :-)  )

      Sean




--
Sean Kelley            INTERNET: kelley@rapnet.sanders.lockheed.com

Lockheed-Sanders, Inc.
Nashua, NH  USA

Newsgroups: soc.culture.celtic
From: ntaib@silver.ucs.indiana.edu (Iskandar Taib)
Subject: Re: Kilts
Organization: Indiana University
Date: Tue, 5 Jan 1993 19:14:46 GMT

In article <726214555.15621@zooid.guild.org> silver.e@zooid.guild.org (Eric Silver) writes:

>Could you please expound upon the term 'given a differencing to use' in 
>your last sentence.

My guess is that they'd have to add something to the coat of arms to
make it a little different than someone else's. Like the bar with the
three arms coming down across the top which the first son of the family
uses while his father is alive. 

Watch Henry V again and see what I mean.. compare the Duke of York's 
to King Harry's (I think the Duke of York kept his "differences" while
Hal gave up his when his father died). 

Or look it up in the encyclopedia!


-- 
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Iskandar Taib                          | The only thing worse than Peach ala
Internet: NTAIB@SILVER.UCS.INDIANA.EDU |    Frog is Frog ala Peach
Bitnet:   NTAIB@IUBACS                 !
Newsgroups: soc.culture.celtic