HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: stafford@msus1.msus.edu
Newsgroups: rec.motorcycles.harley
Subject: Proposed new HD bike
Date: 13 Sep 92 03:28:57 GMT
Organization: Minnesota State University System


	I agree with the opinions that Harley has found its
	marketing nitch and to compete with the superbikes
	would be a disaster.  But what other nitch might
	be available?  How about sport-touring?  I imagine
	a horizontally opposed 4 banger with an aire of
	teutonic technology would do the trick. The point
	of such a design is mimimal changes through model
	years with emphasis on qualify -- something HD is
	positioned to do.  In short, a BMW blaster.  Something
	yet more snotty (oops, I mean dignified) than the
	oriental outsizers (leadwing, etc) or the Honda 1100.
	(I still wouldn't buy one, but I'm real stuck with
	an attitude.)
john
From: steve@presto.ig.com (Steve Barnhouse)
Newsgroups: rec.motorcycles.harley
Subject: Re: FLH frame
Date: 5 Sep 92 01:02:39 GMT
Organization: IntelliGenetics, Inc., Mountain View, California USA

In article <6166@transfer.stratus.com> scol@scottsdale.az.stratus.com (Scott Colbath) writes:
>In article <Bu0GxF.31y@news.larc.nasa.gov> reno@asdsun.larc.nasa.gov (Shaun  
>Reno) writes:

>>anybody know a good source of HD information such as parts interchangability.   
>>Any help would be appreciated.
>> 
>Look for the book called "What Fits What" It is a small book which covers lots  
>of just what the title says, from engines to forks and frames, etc. I don't  
>know where to find it but there was a thread on the Harley Digest a while back  
>covering this. Anyone out there have the info?
>

It's called "What Fits What on Harley-Davidson Motorcycles", subtitled
"Parts Interchangeability - Performance Modifications 1936 thru 1983".
This is the 6th edition which I bought a few years ago.  It's written
by Mike Arman and Kurt Heinrichs.  isbn # 0-933078-11-0.  Says in the
back of the book that copies can be ordered from Mike Arman
Publishing, PO Box 785, Ormond Beach, Florida, 32175 for $6 + $1 for
postage, but it may cost more now.  I bought my copy at Mars Custom
Cycle in San Francisco; your local hog shop might have a copy.  Good
book with good information, and fun to read.

--steve                                          steve@presto.ig.com


Newsgroups: rec.motorcycles.harley
From: behanna@phoenix.syl.nj.nec.com (Chris BeHanna)
Subject: Re: 1000ccm Panhead, adjust valves
Organization: NEC Systems Laboratory, Inc.
Date: Thu, 10 Sep 92 01:25:39 GMT

In article <petterb.1.716051376@dhhalden.no> petterb@dhhalden.no (PETTER BRUSERUD) writes:
>How do you adjust the valves on a '83 (or is it '82) 1000ccm Panhead?
>Would be happy if somebody could tell.

	There is no such thing as an '82 or '83 Panhead.  '48 to '65 only.  I
thought they were all 74s (1200cc) too.  Am I wrong (Oldchop?)?

	At any rate, valve adjustment is accomplished by adjusting the length
of the pushrods.  If that's not true on your bike, then you must have an XR
(did Flatheads have adjustable pushrods/valve adjustments?).

Later,
-- 
Chris BeHanna	DoD# 114  KotHLF    1983 H-D FXWG Wide Glide (She lives!)
behanna@syl.nj.nec.com	            (I need another bike for this space!)

Disclaimer:  Now why would NEC agree with any of this anyway?
Newsgroups: rec.motorcycles.harley
From: garrett@math.rice.edu (David Garrett)
Subject: Evo vs. Shovelhead HP
Organization: Dept. of Mathematics, Rice University
Date: Mon, 14 Sep 1992 21:19:58 GMT


chris dehahn writes:

>>tales of modified Evo cases peeled back like a sardine can deleted
>
> Shovelhead cases have a lot more meat in 'em.
>

john stafford replies:

>Are you quite sure of this? Do you mean they have
>more material about the cylinders or in general? IMHO, 
>Shovelheads with great expectations need more 
>robust cases, too. The Evo cases are basically
>Shovel cases, anyway.

I've been following this thread of Shovel vs. Evo for more power 
when suitably modified for a while. How about some concrete technical 
data to back up either viewpoint? Such as, Shovels have a better 
combustion chamber shape or Evos run cooler, etc. I'd like to know 
what kinds of experiences people have had when modifying either type 
of motor for big HP, whether it be through boring or stroking or head 
work, etc.

Personally, I can't see why anyone would go out and blow >$12K on a new 
Harley unless they just want a stock bike. For that kind of money I 
could go out and buy a clean Shovel, do up the custom touches properly, 
and build a motor that would make a stock Evo look like a Vespa 125.

But that's just my own preference.

Dave Garrett
Department of Mathematics, Rice University, Houston, TX
garrett@math.rice.edu
From: gdelong@ctron.com (Gary Delong)
Newsgroups: rec.motorcycles.harley
Subject: Re: internal prejudice
Date: 14 Sep 92 13:41:51 GMT
Reply-To: gdelong@ctron.com (Gary Delong)
Organization: Cabletron Systems Inc.

In article <1992Sep11.155705.11590@nsisrv.gsfc.nasa.gov> tim@intrepid.gsfc.nasa.gov (Tim Seiss) writes:
>
>  My Brother-in-law (BIL) got a new '92 XLH 1200 this summer, after riding
>and neglecting an '83 Yamaha.  He always brought the Yamaha to my house
>whenever he wanted something done to it (I've been a dirt biker for 20 years,
>and have gotten some mechanical prowess).  It was always obvious to me that
>he didn't have the slightest idea how a motorcycle worked, only how to look
>good on it.
[.. discription of BIL deleted ..]
>
>  BTW, What's an RUB?

I'm not sure if I should assume a smiley on that last line or
not, but your post is a good discription of the typical
Rich Urban Biker.
^    ^     ^

I have very mixed feelings about RUBs, on the plus side they
help keep two wheeling in the public eye and they have helped
HD to expand.  On the down side, most of them are squids and
are more dangerous to the lifestyle than cagers.

Ride Safe..
--Gary
-----------------------------------------------------------------
 Gary (Radar) Delong (gdelong@ctron.com) (603) 332-9400 x1579
-----------------------------------------------------------------
  - Life Member -     |         - Member -
   HOG # 0227367      |   Motorcycle Riders Foundation (Charter)
   AMA # 451036       |   Manchester, NH Chapter HOG (Charter)
   NRA # FKA3720F     |   NH Motorcyclists Rights Organization
   DoD # <CLASSIFIED> {I could tell you, but then .......}
-----------------------------------------------------------------
From: wapembe@afterlife.ncsc.mil (William Pemberton)
Newsgroups: rec.motorcycles.harley
Subject: Re: Freeze & Break
Date: 5 Sep 92 03:37:26 GMT
Organization: The Great Beyond

The freeze and break method refers to using a very cold liquid,
poured/injected into the locking mechanism so that shattering/
breaking it is easier.  The blue-point hammer is, I think, a 
blow torch.  Check in at alt.locksmithing (check group) for more
info.  later.

-- 
wapembe@afterlife.ncsc.mil      "Wrong word. FACT!"  John Wayne
73 de ka3yyr cul
Newsgroups: rec.motorcycles.harley
From: viking@iastate.edu (Dan Sorenson)
Subject: Re: 4 valve HD
Organization: Iowa State University, Ames IA
Date: Wed, 9 Sep 1992 04:42:11 GMT

	I almost forgot to add: the American dealer for these 4-valve heads
appears to be:
	Rivera Engineering
	6416 South Western Avenue
	Whittier, CA 90606
	(213) 6922-8944

Note that I don't own a Harley-Davidson (yet!) but merely post information
based solely upon magazine reviews.  If you're interested, you won't take
my word for it, or theirs.

<Dan Sorenson, DoD #1066 |"There'll be angels on Ariels in leather>
<z1dan@exnet.iastate.edu | and chrome, Ridin' down from heaven    >
<viking@iastate.edu      | just to carry me home." -- R. Thompson >
< ISU thinks I need more education, which they provide for a fee. >
From: stafford@msus1.msus.edu
Newsgroups: rec.motorcycles.harley
Subject: Re: 1954 Harley For Sale
Date: 16 Sep 92 03:44:29 GMT
Organization: Minnesota State University System


 A chopped 54 Harley for over 8K?  Let me know if you sell it.
 Got a few bridges here and some titles to land in florida.
From: davidsen@ariel.crd.GE.COM (william E Davidsen)
Newsgroups: rec.motorcycles.harley
Subject: Re: Proposed new HD bike
Date: 14 Sep 92 14:07:42 GMT
Reply-To: davidsen@crd.ge.com (bill davidsen)
Organization: GE Corporate R&D Center, Schenectady NY

In article <1992Sep12.212857.1199@msus1.msus.edu>, stafford@msus1.msus.edu writes:
| 
| 	I agree with the opinions that Harley has found its
| 	marketing nitch and to compete with the superbikes
| 	would be a disaster.  But what other nitch might
| 	be available?  How about sport-touring?  I imagine
| 	a horizontally opposed 4 banger with an aire of
| 	teutonic technology would do the trick. The point
| 	of such a design is mimimal changes through model
| 	years with emphasis on qualify -- something HD is
| 	positioned to do.  In short, a BMW blaster.  Something

  I think you have the right idea of a market niche, a somwhat smoother,
quieter, and more powerful engine in a top of the line cruiser. I don't
personally agree with the design you propose, but that's immaterial.

  Using belt+belt drive and some care in the frame, it could be really
smooth and still not have all the hassles of shaft drive.

-- 
bill davidsen, GE Corp. R&D Center; Box 8; Schenectady NY 12345
    I admit that when I was in school I wrote COBOL. But I didn't compile.
Newsgroups: rec.motorcycles.harley
From: dehahn@strokr.shr.dec.com (chris dehahn)
Subject: Re: Collector's Harleys $ and frauds
Reply-To: dehahn@strokr.shr.dec.com
Organization: Digital Equipment Corporation
Date: Thu, 10 Sep 92 21:08:12 GMT

--

In article <1992Sep10.142826.9645@cbnewsm.cb.att.com>, shz@garage.att.com
(Keeper of the 'Tude) writes:
|>Newsgroups: rec.motorcycles.harley
|>Path:
|
pa.dec.com!decwrl!sdd.hp.com!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!pacific.mps.ohio-state.ed
du!linac!att!cbnewsm!garage.att.com!shz
|>From: shz@garage.att.com (Keeper of the 'Tude)
|>Subject: Re: Collector's Harleys $ and frauds
|>Organization: Office of 'Tude Licensing
|>Date: Thu, 10 Sep 1992 14:28:26 GMT
|>Message-ID: <1992Sep10.142826.9645@cbnewsm.cb.att.com>
|>References:  <1992Sep6.104305.1138@msus1.msus.edu>
|><1992Sep10.123757.13867@PA.dec.com>
|>Sender: news@cbnewsm.cb.att.com (NetNews Administrator)
|>Nntp-Posting-Host: binky
|>Lines: 11
|>
|>In article <1992Sep10.123757.13867@PA.dec.com>, dehahn@strokr.shr.dec.com
|>(chris dehahn) writes:
|>> The posers will pay top dollar for anything that looks rad. You could dress
|>> up a Heritage Softail to look like a '65 Pan and they'd pay vintage Pan 
|>> prices for it.
|>
|>OK, how much is a complete 1955 Pan in good to very good condition with
|>original red paint worth?  It has virtually no rust, the chrome is decent,
|>there was only a small puddle (only a few drips :-) ) and the motor
|>supposedly runs.
|>
|>- Roid
|>

Original red paint doesn't mean very much unless the bike is absolutely
BONE stock. More importantly, is the frame untouched? No rake, no
molding, no welding.

Value would range from $3500-5K for an old chopper to $6K-12K for a
stock original bike. It has to be absolutely showroom clean with every
single part OEM to get $12K. If it's a good clean totally stock bike, $7K-
8K. 

CdH 
<<<<<<<<<<<<   Ninety eight....don't be late  >>>>>>>>>>>>
Chris deHahn....CdH....Digital Equipment Shrewsbury MA USA
dehahn@strokr.shr.dec.com
Newsgroups: rec.motorcycles.harley
From: viking@iastate.edu (Dan Sorenson)
Subject: Appliances != HD's
Summary: Are only HD builders really builders?
Keywords: builder, user, appliances
Organization: Iowa State University, Ames IA
Date: Tue, 15 Sep 1992 04:14:05 GMT

	I am *NOT* after a flamewar here.  If your blood pressure
reaches critical levels, press "R" instead of "N" and keep everybody
remotely sane on this.  I'm just looking for some opinions.

	I've noticed most of the non-Evo HD's to have been modified
in some fashion.  For some, it's different bars or aftermarket pipes.
For others, it's that springer front end, the rigid struts instead 
of shocks, perhaps the Morris magneto and S&S carb kit, or all of the
above.  Paint jobs, decals and emblems, extra chrome, etc...

	What can I say?  I'm a college student who has a '74 CB750K Honda
to work with.  I've managed to turn it into a prime late-60's cafe racer
replica through sweat, blood, minimal cash, and lots of work.  So much
for my qualifications.

	Now then, here's the question.  Somebody mentioned previously
that the Evo's were being snatched up by users, not builders.  Is it
any less a feat of building when the bike in question started life as
a UJM?  On the few times I've gone with an uncle of mine to mostly-HD
meetings, I've gotten nothing but words of praise on my ride.  The
hand-laid custom tank and seat, the little details like safety wire,
the rear-sets hand-made from aluminum billet, the Chevy truck oil
spin-on filter instead of the Honda canister, etc...

	I've also noticed a lot of anti-UHM sentiment among the HD crowd,
but this seems to be because of the Universal in Universal Japanese
Motorycle, and not in the place of manufacture per se.  What do you
think of building a ride of a particular make?  British bikes don't
seem to share this animosity, so I'm curious.

	Personally, I'd trade nearly anything for a '52K Harley, but
I'm still looking, and the XLCR is out of my price range.  Due to
back injuries, I need to be bent forward, and the cheap 750 Honda
was the way to start.  I guess I'm just wondering if anybody feels
Joe Moneybags with $7K to lay down on a stock low-rider is any more
a biker, motorcyclist, or builder than I am given the only non-modified
parts on my ride are the engine cases.  Many seem to think he isn't,
but I'd like a bit more feedback.

	And no, I'm not defending UJM's for any particular reason.
They serve a difference niche in the market, and lately I've begun
to desire a cruiser over a racer.  A new '883 would be a dream, but
that dream is still a few years in the future.  If I wanted a racer,
HD doesn't make one for me anyway.  The XR-1000 is close, but there's
more than just raw torque to winning races.  If that were the case
Vincent would still be in business.

<Dan Sorenson, DoD #1066 |"I see angels on Ariels in leather and>
<z1dan@exnet.iastate.edu | chrome, Swooping down from heaven to >
<viking@iastate.edu      | carry me home."   ---    R. Thompson >
<ISU thinks I need more education, which they provide for a fee.>
Newsgroups: rec.motorcycles.harley
From: crsg9887@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (Chad R. Sandstrom)
Subject: Re: Why do Harlies make so much noise?
Organization: University of Illinois at Urbana
Date: Sat, 5 Sep 1992 06:27:17 GMT

bz206@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Joseph Hack) writes:
>In a previous article, scol@scottsdale.az.stratus.com (Scott Colbath) says:
>>In article <1870c3INNi4b@usenet.INS.CWRU.Edu> bz206@cleveland.Freenet.Edu  
>>(Joseph Hack) writes:
>>> I've always wondered about that.  Are they loud because:
>I get smart-ass answers or not, I don't care, but I don't need
             ^^^
>flames from dickless pansies like you.
             ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>boy.  If I felt you were man enough to handle it, I might  even
^^^^        ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>consider flaming you back, but if I did, you would probably go
                     ^^^^^^
>crying back to mommie, so I'll spare you this time.
                ^^^^^^^

>Faggot.
^^^^^^^^
Golly, I'm so sorry, I got it all wrong. I though that this little 
derogative here was aimed at Scott and that the brilliant Mr. hack
was simply to gutless to sign his pollutant of a posting. 

"Faggot" was his signature! A nasty term of homophobia true, but 
hACK here uses it to describe himself.  It's o.k. Joe, being, you
know, a little different sometimes. Hell, I can't rationally explain
why I want to spend > $10k on some l slow, oily, unsafe motorsickle.

You are experienceing self-hatred; you must be so tortured.  It is really 
o.k.. You can come out. America Is a Free Country, a melting pot of ideas,
cultures, Sexy orientations, and yes motorcycles! So rejoice! You can get 
help to stop hating yourself. And you can stop hating your mother too.

ObHarley: My classmates in the MSF course had me pegged as one with 
HD lust in my heart. I don't know how they knew. I didn't tell a soul.
I feel better that it's out now though. ;)

Chad S.
Newsgroups: rec.motorcycles.harley
Subject: Re: internal prejudice
From: Stafford@Vax2.Winona.MSUS.EDU (John Stafford)
Date: 10 Sep 92 15:54:02 -0600
Followup-To: rec.motorcycles.harley
Distribution: world
Organization: MSUS

In article <1992Sep10.171919.7951@sifon.cc.mcgill.ca>,
loki@elrond.physics.mcgill.ca (Loki Jorgenson) wrote:
> 
> 
> 	I've caught up on all the Harley posts.  And I've noticed a curious
> "tone" in the comments of some hard-core (from all appearances) HD types.
> There seems to be some bias against the Evo series  and in favour of the older
> classic xxxxx-head machines (xxxxx is "shovel, pan, bucket, bottle,
> spoon"...  anything that can hold oil, I guess).
> 
> 	Besides the fact that the Evos are often the prize of poser,
> wannabe Yuppie bikers, what is the prejudice?  [...]

Just that - many assume Evo = prize of poser.  As a 'recovering'
early HD fanatic, I feel it's a resentment from those who
lived with Harleys through the tough days when maintenance was
a do or drop-dead proposition.  Many of us also feel that we lived
through the times when riding anything, especially a Harley, was
a stigma that threatened job security, etc.  (And it _was_, believe
me.)  Now it's a status symbol.  Culture shock, you dig?

john (down '56 FLH chop)
Newsgroups: rec.motorcycles.harley
From: groh@omicron.cs.fsu.edu (Jim Groh)
Subject: Re: Testriding
Reply-To: groh@nu.cs.fsu.edu
Organization: Florida State University Computer Science Department
Date: Fri, 11 Sep 92 10:53:36 GMT

In article <1992Sep10@rtsg.mot> svoboda@rtsg.mot.com (David Svoboda) writes:
>In article <1992Sep9.025023.15132@umbc3> alex@engr3.umbc.edu (alex) writes:
>|In article <1992Sep2.194530.> svoboda@rtsg.mot.com (David Svoboda) writes:
>|
>|
>|>I don't know where YOU live, Ed, but most places in the
             <stuff deleted>
>|	HD of Baltimore will let you test ride something, assuming that
             <stuff deleted>
>
>I think maybe you are, as (I assume) a customer, being treated differently
             <stuff deleted>
>I very much enjoy test riding motorcycles, and my testrides have established
             <stuff deleted>
>
>No.  Test riding is my only method of evaluating motorcycle rideability.  It
>is the *first* step in a possible sale, but a necessary step (of the several

So the question arises in my pointy little head, how many bikes have you
purchased?

            <the rest of the stuff deleted>
-- 
Jim Groh     groh@sig.cs.fsu.edu  | DoD #0356  |   Hog# 0437643 |new  improved
1959 XLH 900  **  1982 FXR  **  1989 XLH 883  **  1990 XLH 1200 | smaller sig
Newsgroups: rec.motorcycles.harley
From: markk@tcs.com (Mark Kromer)
Subject: Harley Sportbike?  Don't hold your breath
Originator: markk@sparcplug
Reply-To: markk@tcs.com (Mark Kromer)
Organization: Teknekron Communications Systems Berkeley, CA USA
Date: Sat, 12 Sep 1992 02:38:22 GMT

Harley Sportbike:

Here's a couple of reasons why it won't happen:

Harley is a business first, and has been playing it conservative
lately (probably still under the pall of the buyout debt).  Currently,
Harley and sell more bikes than they can build.  Why should they spend
millions to develop a new bike if they won't be able to produce enough
to offset the developement costs?  It would be a bad move from a
business standpoint.

The sportbike market is *brutal*.  The bike with the best numbers in
the magizines (1/4 mile, HP, etc.) wins and all others go on sale.
Whether these numbers have anything to do with the riders needs is
irrelevant, it's pose value.  I'd bet that 95% of the people who buy
CBR600F2s (the current winner) don't ride well enough to experience
the difference between it and an FZR600 (the previous winner).  The
lifespan of a new design is often only 2 or 3 years before the dealers
can't give them away.  Honda, Yamaha, Suzuki, and Kawasaki *might*
have the engineering resources and world market share to pump out all
new bikes every few years, but I don't think Harley could afford it
(not for the forseeable future anyway).  Harley's best off staying out
of the pure sportbike market IMHO.

Sport tourers, however, have a much longer design lifespan and a
different kind of buyer (many of the current sucessful sport-tourers
have their design roots in the mid 80's).  Here Harley could do a
little expanding if they had the production capacity.

Personally, I'm not really interested in a plastic rocket (I have two
already).  I'd really like something like the current sportster with
rearsets, clip-ons and a chassis.  I could get the power I want out of
the motor, but what can you do with a frame that dates back 40-odd
years to the K model?  I wouldn't put what passed for tires in those
days on a wheelbarrow!

Harley, just give me a *little* more to work with!

--
)V(ark)<               markk@tcs.com                   DoD #400
1988 FZR400            1985 ZX900 Ninja             1977 RD400D
            TCSI Berkeley, CA USA  (510) 649-3781
Organization: Pittsburgh Supercomputing Center, Carnegie Mellon, Pittsburgh, PA
Newsgroups: rec.motorcycles.harley
Date: Tue,  8 Sep 1992 13:56:50 -0400 
From: "Shirl G. Grant" <sb3t+@andrew.cmu.edu>
Subject: Re: Need info on locking Gas Caps
	<mtrost.715369562@convex.convex.com>


Aren't bike gas caps vented (or one of the 2 for fat bobs)?  I thought
this was the major difference between car and bike gas caps.

-SunShine
Newsgroups: rec.motorcycles.harley
From: alex@engr3.umbc.edu (alex)
Subject: Re: Testriding
Organization: University of Maryland Baltimore Campus
Date: Mon, 14 Sep 1992 20:56:28 GMT

In article <1992Sep10.223656.11536@rtsg.mot.com>, svoboda@rtsg.mot.com (David Svoboda) writes:

|> |	HD of Baltimore will let you test ride something, assuming that
|> |they actually have something to test ride (most of their bikes are sold
|> |before they arrive). I was under the impression that this was pretty 
|> |common among HD dealers. A drivers licence and a signed waiver will usually
|> |do it.
|> 
|> I think maybe you are, as (I assume) a customer, being treated differently
|> than "someone unknown" who walks in.  I suggest you ask a motorcycling friend
|> who is not a Harley rider (well, assuming...never mind :-) to walk in
|> and ask for a ride.  He won't get one.

	Sorry, but your wrong. HD of Baltimore has a very clear and stated
policy towards test riding - If they've got a bike that's road worthy,
you can ride it. They require a release form and a valid E licence.

	Once or twice a year they have open house, when they line up 5 or
6 bikes and give test rides all day. The requirements are the same, but
you have to wait in line, and they take everybody out in a group. 

	Maybe it's different in the midwest, but that the way it works here.

-- 
                               Alex Crain::UMBC Academic Computing Services
"I don't know that atheists should be considered as citizens,
 nor should they be considered patriots.  This is one nation under God"
                                     - George Herbert Walker Bush, Feb 1989
From: stafford@msus1.msus.edu
Newsgroups: rec.motorcycles.harley
Subject: Upside-down hydraulics
Date: 10 Sep 92 18:42:40 -0600
Organization: Minnesota State University System


	Speaking of hydrauic lifters, anyone recall what year(s)
	Harley had them at the wrong end off the pushrod?  As I
	recall, it took them a while to discover that oil does
	not flow uphill.

Newsgroups: rec.motorcycles.harley