From: payner@netcom.com (Rich Payne)
Subject: Re: Socialism for Women (was Re: Child Support)
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services (408 241-9760 guest)
Date: Tue, 17 Nov 1992 19:30:05 GMT

In article <misdeva-161192203834@morse-college-kstar-node.net.yale.edu> misdeva@yalevm.ycc.yale.edu (Devjani Mishra) writes:
>In article <Bxo11L.9yp@cs.psu.edu>, beaver@castor.cs.psu.edu (Don Beaver)
>wrote:
>> 
>> >In article <misdeva-111192175853@morse-college-kstar-node.net.yale.edu> misdeva@yalevm.ycc.yale.edu (Devjani Mishra) writes:
>> >>In article <BxJ8rF.J63@cs.psu.edu>, beaver@castor.cs.psu.edu (Don Beaver)
>> >>wrote:
>
>> >> Do you have any trouble extending "protections"'s iron fist
>> >> into the public treasury to "protect" the womb rather than
>> >> what's in it -- ie., to pay for abortions?
>> >
>> >Abortion is a medical procedure.  If I have to pay for appendectomies, I
>> >should have to pay for abortions.
>> 
>> Abortion is, in general, an elective medical procedure.
>
>What about those abortions that are not elective?  Generally, those aren't
>covered either.
>
>> 
>> Do people have a right to demand that the government pay for face-lifts?
>> 
>> Is the government responsible for paying for appendectomies
>> or are the insurance companies responsible?
>
>Medicare and Medicaid are government structures.  The insurance companies
>(and I have dealt extensively with health insurance as a clinical
>bookkeeper, so I'm sure about this) don't have to pay things if they decide
>they don't want to.  They especially don't have to pay if you are not
>insured.  

Worse than that, they are often refusing payment and dropping coverage
for those they have insured, because they make a claim. At least if the
news coverage on this has been correct.

And they often will not pay a valid claim till you take them to court.
Then some lawyer gets a third of it (more or less). This from direct
experience.
 
>> 
>> >   I didn't get to keep my tax dollars
>> >from being used to kill Iraqis, did I?
>> 
>> No, I assume you didn't.
>> 
>> And you also weren't able to stop your tax dollars from paying for
>> draft-registration to enable sacrificing men quickly in time of need.
>> 
>> It seems like this is precisely an example of your "iron fist" metaphor.
>> 
>> You object to an "iron fist" on a woman's womb, but do you object
>> to an "iron fist" on a man's balls?
>> 
>> Is it wrong to object, period?
>
>In a society as pluralistic as ours, I don't think it's plausible to allow
>objections.  If each taxpayer were given the chance to make a laundry list
>of everything he/she did not wish to pay for, there would be no federal and
>potentially no state gov't.  (That may not be such a bad thing - hmmm...:)
>)

While I agree in general, public opinion should be a factor in deciding
what should be done with public funds. Not on a person-by-person basis,
and not as a means of tromping on individual rights and freedoms that
some SIG may have a problem with.
 
>> >> I'd be happier with your socialism if it meant I, a man,
>> >> could retire to raise my children if I felt like it -- and
>> >> you'd foot the bill for my "freedom to choose."
>> >
>> >Look carefully.  I didn't say "let's socialize child care".
>> 
>> You said, "Someone has to pay for it, all of it."
>> 
>> You implied that "people, parents, taxpayers, all" are responsible
>> for children.
>> 
>> Don
>> -- 
>> beaver@cs.psu.edu                       Opinions from the PC-challenged
>
>Just as we are responsible for the rest of society.  Or don't we need to
>worry about children's welfare?
 
And I suspect that those who think that the childs welfare will be
guarenteed by making parents infinitely liable for things that they
have no control over will be sadly mistaken. The kids cannot be secure
unless the parents are secure. And it takes no more than the -claim-
of child molestation to destroy the career of a parent.

Parents cannot give their children what they do not themselves have.
The way to protect the children is to protect the parents. 

Note, this does not mean that convicted child molesters (etc) should
be supported in parenting roles.
 
>       /-                   Devjani Mishra, Yale University
>      /   /                 misdeva@yalevm.ycc.yale.edu
>  ___/  _  _   _  ___       diva@minerva.cs.yale.edu    
> /  /   /   | /  /  /
>/__/_  /_   |/  /__/_       "What's right is what's left when everything
>                            else is wrong." - Robin Williams

Rich

payner@netcom.com


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