From: dpage@ra.csc.ti.com (Doug Page)
Subject: Re: A few quotes from a few years ago
Organization: Texas Instruments
Distribution: usa
Date: Thu, 10 Sep 1992 16:12:19 GMT

In article <nate.546@psygate.psych.indiana.edu>, nate@psygate.psych.indiana.edu (Nathan Engle) writes:
|> hulsey@dbsun.uucp (hulsey) writes:
|> >In article <1992Sep8.225801.18365@csc.ti.com>
|> >   dpage@ra.csc.ti.com (Doug Page) writes:

I did not write this, Jim did.

|> >Secular humanists believe in scientific inquiry.  If a school teaches
|> >science, does that school promote secular humanism?
|> 

[Nathan Engle]
|>     Apparently so. Scientific inquiry might lead people to question all 
|> kinds of things based on the silly assumption that humans can invent 
|> theories which are more accurate than a 2000 year old Christian dogma 
|> (which is, as everyone knows, infallible).
|> 
[me]
|> >>It is also interesting to note that federal $s are rather routinely used by
|> >>PBS to broadcast New Age sermons.
|> 
[Jim]
|> >Exaclty what do you call a "New Age sermon?"  Environmental programs?
|> >The McLaughlin Group?  Masterpiece Theatre?  This Old House?
|> 
[Nathan]
|>     There have been a couple of series running recently which have struck 
|> me as fairly blatant in carrying the New Age message. I can't remember 
|> the name of the series, but there was one recently in which a guy 
|> travelled around the world "rediscovering" the wisdom in tribal lore 
|> from various ancient cultures. So they *do* show up every now and then. 
|> I wouldn't say that they constitute more than about 5% of PBS's air time, 
|> but they're around.
|> 
|>     Of course, against the "tripe" of PBS you also have to weigh the 
|> "caviar". Programs like "Masterpiece Theater", "Mystery", "Connections", 
|> and "The Day The Universe Changed" are extremely well done and IMHO 
|> counterbalance all the more questionable stuff. I'm not aware of another  
|> network that puts on more thought-provoking stuff than PBS (including 
|> Discovery and CNN).

Agreed, but the next question remains unanswered.  BTW, during pledge drives,
we in the DFW area see one night of programing aimed at "New Agers" (the
programs' description, not mine) and one night aimed at "Humanists" (once
again, the programs' term, not mine.

|> 
[my question]
|> >>So where is the establishment clause in these cases?
|> >
[Jim's "answer"]
  
|> >It seems that anything scientists say that does not fit into your belief
|> >window becomes "secular humanism."
|> 
[Mr. Engle's answer "for" me]
|>     Well, not everything, but most of it. After all, if these scientists 
|> are remiss enough to fail to consult Holy Scripture before making their 
|> pronouncements then they're bound to make some mistakes, right?
|> 

Wrong!  I use the term "secular humanists" to those who have either referred
to themselves as such or to those who's expressed world view matches that of
the Humanist Manifesto II (1973) as published in "The Humanist".

Once again, I posted quotes covering the 1600s through the late 1800s which
claimed that this nation was founded upon Christian principles.  I have had my
views (or at least what some think that they are) attacked, I have entered
into a discussion as to whether or not morals are taught in the public
schools, having proved that they in fact are, I have then had my "views"
attacked again,  it even appears that there are those who conceed that I have
in fact shown that this nation was founded upon Christian principles, I have
asked "oponents" if they thought murder was wrong (which they said they did)
and then asked them why and received no answer (not even a three
year old "because").  Noone has attempted to rebut the quotes that I presented
with historic facts, they simply countered them with their opinions (which they
have a right to, of course).  Discussion, debate, and reason should help shape
a world view and help us understand the views of others but evidently the
views of those I have been addressing is based upon a "faith" that lacks any
reason of its own (or at least one that they understand themselves).
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