From: zing@wilber.rich.nt.com (Leon Z. Lee)
Subject: Re: Mongolia
Organization: Northern Telecom, Inc.
Date: Thu, 24 Dec 1992 16:37:05 GMT

In article <BzqoyG.79o@usenet.ucs.indiana.edu> achen@bronze.ucs.indiana.edu (positron) writes:
>I wonder if Beijing has any plans to "liberate"
>outer Mongolia?  I think Mongolia should be recovered
>before Beijing can even start to dream about "liberating"
>Taiwan.

Besides from the perspective of national pride....Mongolia does possess vast
amounts of oil deposits.  However, if my sources are correct...I believe there
are 2 Soviet Armor Divisions and 3 Infantry Divisions stationed in Outer
Mongolia.  Don't know if the present Russian Republic decided to pull them
back across the border.

In any event....the PRC officially recognizes the independence of Outer MongoliaHowever...the ROC technically does not recognize Outer Mongolia due to the
former Soviet Union's aborgation of the 1923 treaty.  In that treaty...the
USSR under "Uncle Joe" pledged not to interfere in Chinese internal politics
in return for a plebicite in Mongolia concerning its independence.  Since the
Soviets violated the agreement...the ROC is not obliged to recognize the
independence of Mongolia.

>Also, from the historical perspective, an invasion of
>Mongolia definitely justifiable because it could be
>viewed as revenge for Ghengis Khan's invasion of China.

If you are referring to the fact that Mongolia has been an integral part of
China since the 13th century...that I would concur.  But if I need an excuse
to invade Mongolia...I rather rely upon the aborgation of the 1923 treaty
rather than the events of the 1270s.

>If you think about it carefully, China never did really
>recover from the Mongolian invasion.  Before the Mongolian
>invasion of China, China was always the premier civilization
>in the world.  After the Mongolian invasion, the West overtook
>China permanently as the premier civilization in the world.

This may be a misnomer....since the Tang and Ming Dynasty after the Yuan
Dynasty were also "premier civilizations" in its own right.  If any blame
can be placed on any one Chinese dynasty for faltering with the Western
Imperialistic powers....the blame is placed solely upon the Manchurians.

When comparing the industrial development of China and Japan....it is
certainly interesting to note that one aspects of the tremendous industrial
progress of Japan in the late 1880s was due to the fact that the Western
Imperialistic powers concentrated most of their efforts at partitioning
China instead of partitioning Japan.

>In my opinion, the "real" China was permanently destroyed by
>the Mongolian invasion and real Chinese history ended at that
>point.  All of the notable dynasties that followed the Mongolian 
>invasion were not real Chinese dynasties.  For example, most
>historians don't consider the Manchus as being Chinese.

The Manchurians..from an tradition ethnic view point...are not Chinese.
That is...they are not Han-Ren.  They are ethnically related to the Koreans.

As for the opinion on the "Real China"....remember, "Let China sleep..
for when she awakens...the world shall tremble".  Well...I can state
unequivocally that "China is about to awake".  We have yet to see the
REAL China.

On this note....which country would be China's greatest nemisis in the 21st
century ?  Although most Chinese would point to China's tradition enemies..
the Soviets and the Japanese...I for one believe that the US may become
China greatest challenger.

Given the presently economic and military presence of the US in the Far East,
(55,000 troops in Japan, 35,000 troops in Korea, 20,000 in the Philippines)
I am quite confident that the US would not wantonly permit China to assert a
high degree of political and military presence in the Far East.  What are the
opinions on this scenario ?
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 Leon Z. Lee                        |  Only able to post to USENET for now.
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