HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: dlhpfm!dlh@NCoast.org (daniel lance herrick)
Newsgroups: misc.entrepreneurs
Subject: Re: Followups..
Date: Wed, 02 Sep 92 12:02:47 EDT
Organization: dlh Performance Marketing

burgoyne@highlite.uucp (J. Robert Burgoyne) writes:

> rubin@cis.ohio-state.edu (Daniel Rubin) writes:
> : 
> [He'd like to see more answers to the questions posted]
> : I am not saying that this group is only questions, but is seems as if answe
> : are somewhat scarce...

There are a lot of questions posted that could be answered more quickly
out of the phone book.  I do eventually post responses to some of the
more interesting questions.  So do a few other contributors.

> An excellent suggestion. There is safety in numbers so to speak, with much
> of direct marketing. For example, it is often better to test 10 different
> products, with 10 different sales approaches, than it is to do one super
> duper sales pitch for one product.

Let me add a word to this, Robert:  "it is better to test 10 different
products, with 10 different sales approaches [each],..."

> 
> Time magazine once tested a dozen different sales letters, and asked the
> top folks in advertising to order the letters in terms of the response each
> one drew. Nobody got it right.

The top folks in direct response advertising know that the answers to
such questions come from asking the market.  In general, the top folks
in advertising do not.

> The point is, things that some of us would never guess to make money do,
> while many sure things fall flat. The same with ads. You can write two
> very good ads, and one may outpull the other by a huge factor. You can not
> pre-guess the response of your market, so you need to figure out how to
> increase the chances that you'll strike a responsive chord.

Careful, Robert!  You are revealing, here, one of the principles that
Jay espouses and practices.

> 
> And so it is with commentary on entrepreneurial activities.
> 
> The more opinions, the more each of us has to think about. So don't be
> afraid to chime in if you think you've got something good to say.

Where no counsel is, the people fall: but in the multitude of
counsellors there is safety.  Proverbs 11:14

Without counsel purposes are disappointed: but in the multitude of
counsellors they are established.  Proverbs 15:22

> It would be nice to have a FAQ with the info about credit card merchant
> accounts, how to get a UPC bar code, and references to some of the best
> books on marketing and sales. But sorry, I don't have time to do it
> myself.

I keep saying I'm going to do some of these.

dan  of dlh Performance Marketing  POBox 1419  Mentor Ohio 44061
       NCoast.org!dlhpfm!dlh or ab.com!dlhpfm.uucp!dlh   (216)974-9637
"`Bad, bad,' says the buyer; but when he goes his way, then he boasts."
Proverbs 20:14
From: llarsen%peruvian.utah.edu@cs.utah.edu (Loren Larsen)
Newsgroups: misc.entrepreneurs
Subject: Re: Amway
Date: 2 Sep 92 17:57:01 GMT
Organization: University of Utah CS Dept

In article <1992Sep2.135310.15652@lmpsbbs.comm.mot.com> ogden_jon@macmail1.rtsg.mot.com writes:

>Do you call a 4 BILLION dollar company a FAKE?????
>Give me a break!  If you do you are living in a fantasy land.  What kind of
>annual sales does Primerica have, is it debt free, does it have 1 Billion in
>assets, 400 million in cash/short term assets, are its owners two of the
>richest men in America, does it own 60% of a Carribean island, does it have a
>product line of over 12,000 products and 600-700 major manufacturers all
>contributing to it?????
>
>Folks, if Amway was a fake, the FTC would not approve it, companies like
>Cocoa-Cola, MCI, Visa, Ford, GM, Chrysler, Bottany 500, Magnavox, etc. etc.
>would not be involved.  I am not saying Primerica is bad, I am sure it is an
>excellent company.  Just don't slice apart the #1 MLM to build up yours.  LOOK
>AT THE FACTS!!!!
>
>Fake, right!  And if you believe that - I have a bridge to sell you cause you'd
>buy anything!
>
>Jon

Am I the only one here who is SICK of hearing about the battle of the MLMs?
Let's face it, Amway is a sales job.  Nothing more.  Hence it is not
entrepreneurship.  Therefore it belongs in another group.  I believe there
is a group just for such discussions.

No I have nothing against MLMs other than...  I'll refrain from adding fuel 
to the fire on this one.  Just take this discussion to where it belongs.  I
think it might be acceptable to discuss whether MLMing is entrepreneurship.
Obviously I don't think it is, but I suppose it's possible that other people 
could have a differing opinion.

Loren
From: dlhpfm!dlh@NCoast.org (daniel lance herrick)
Newsgroups: misc.entrepreneurs
Subject: Re: Need info on correspondence degree programs
Date: Wed, 02 Sep 92 17:25:37 EDT
Organization: dlh Performance Marketing

Frank Sayre <sayre@ctrvax.vanderbilt.edu> writes:

> 
> There are number of "universities" offering BA/BS, MA/MS, PhD's
> to working professionals by correspondence, i.e. you don't attend
> classes but work from your home submitting classwork and papers
> via US mail or electronically.  They usually claim to be accredited.
> The accreditation is usually from the state they are located in, tho'
> I believe I've seen some claim recognition from US Dept of Educ (??).
> They cater to working professionals, and the degrees are in prof.
> areas, e.g. MBA, CS, Educational Admin, etc. The programs are advertised
> in various publications, e.g. the classifieds in the back of Fortune.
> Several of them are located in California.

There are a few genuine universities with solid reputations that offer
real degrees with no residence requirement.  One is the University of
South Africa in Pretoria.

dan  of dlh Performance Marketing  POBox 1419  Mentor Ohio 44061
       NCoast.org!dlhpfm!dlh or ab.com!dlhpfm.uucp!dlh   (216)974-9637
"`Bad, bad,' says the buyer; but when he goes his way, then he boasts."
Proverbs 20:14
From: moghal@usc.edu (Nadeem Moghal)
Newsgroups: misc.entrepreneurs
Subject: Can you consolidate Credit Cards?
Date: 27 Aug 1992 19:41:42 -0700
Organization: University of Southern California, Los Angeles, CA
Distribution: world
NNTP-Posting-Host: aludra.usc.edu

Is it possible to consolidate two or more credit cards into a single
account?

Let me clarify what exactly I mean by this. It is posible, for
example, to TRANSFER THE DEBT to one credit card, which is usually
the one with the lowest interest rate. This can be done by using
the "checks" given out by those card companies (Discover is one 
such card), and pay off the balance of another card. This uses
the cash advance, adn the first bank charges a nominal service
charge.

But what I wnt to know is if we can COMBINE two cards. Here is
an example:

Suppose I have three cards, A, B and C, with limits of 2000, 1500
and 1000 resp. If I decide to save on my annual charges and/or if
the interest rate of A is a lot lesser than that of C, can I TRANSFER
the limit of C to A, and close my account with C? If I could do so,
my final totals would be A (limit 3000) and B (limit 1500)?

The problem here would be making A increase their limit from 2000
to 3000 dollars.

I would like to know this because I remember once going through
the student-credit card application of Security Pacific National
Bank, based in California. That was a long time back, before 
bank of America acquired this institution. SPNB were offering 
$50 if you TRANSFERRED at least $700 of your limit from some
other credit card to them. In their form, you just ahd to specify
the bank that issued that card, and of course the account number.
They would take care of the rest.

I would like to know what others think about it, and if anyone has
actually tried doing something like this.

In case this could be, or is a part of some ongoing scam, I apologize
profusely for my naivette.

Thank you very much. Please feel free to e-mail or post on the net.
If I receive useful personal messages, I would mail a summary.


Nadeem Moghal
USC

Newsgroups: misc.entrepreneurs
From: Vinodh.Das@bbs.oit.unc.edu (Vinodh Das)
Subject: Possible Products
Organization: Extended Bulletin Board Service
Date: Thu, 27 Aug 1992 16:48:49 GMT

Hullo :

  A friend of mine recently received government funding
in India for an electronics factory.  We're very 
excited, but we have yet to decide on a product.
It would be fantastic if I got some input or 
suggestions from fellow entrepreneurs about possible
products that would be useful (and <ahem> would
sell well) in a less developed country as India.

-Vinodh

--
   The opinions expressed are not necessarily those of the University of
     North Carolina at Chapel Hill, the Campus Office for Information
        Technology, or the Experimental Bulletin Board Service.
           internet:  bbs.oit.unc.edu or 152.2.22.80
Newsgroups: misc.entrepreneurs
From: woodcock@crchh427.NoSubdomain.NoDomain (Gregg Woodcock)
Subject: Re: Can you consolidate Credit Cards?
Reply-To: woodcock@sdf.lonestar.org
Organization: Bell-Northern Research, Richardson, Tx
Date: Fri, 28 Aug 1992 14:00:54 GMT

In article <l9r4j6INNslg@aludra.usc.edu>, moghal@usc.edu (Nadeem Moghal) writes:
|> But what I wnt to know is if we can COMBINE two cards. Here is
|> an example:
|> 
|> Suppose I have three cards, A, B and C, with limits of 2000, 1500
|> and 1000 resp. If I decide to save on my annual charges and/or if
|> the interest rate of A is a lot lesser than that of C, can I TRANSFER
|> the limit of C to A, and close my account with C? If I could do so,
|> my final totals would be A (limit 3000) and B (limit 1500)?
|> 
|> The problem here would be making A increase their limit from 2000
|> to 3000 dollars.

As long as you have been fairly responsible in keeping up with your minimum
payments, most credit card companies *LOVE* to raise your credit limit;
lots of times they won't even do a credit check and will do it while you
wait over the phone.  Just call the number on the back of your card and ask
them.

A better idea than doing a cash advance from your low interest cards to pay
of the balance on your high interest cards is to go to your bank and ask
for a credit card consolidation loan (currently running between 8-10%).
Most of them are eager to give these out as long as you allow the bank to
issue the checks to the credit card companies directly (so there is no
chance that you will change your mind and blow the cash and have double the
debt).  If you are a member of a credit union this can probably be done
over the phone as well, as long as you have all the info on all your cards.
It is a good idea to close the accounts and cut the cards up after this so
you are not tempted to blow it (if the bank turns you down, offer to do
this as an incentive to them)!
From: hutch@bellman.lanl.gov (John Hutchinson)
Newsgroups: misc.entrepreneurs
Subject: Re: Definition
Date: 4 Sep 92 20:43:37 GMT
Article-I.D.: newshost.1992Sep4.204337.4009
Reply-To: hutch@bellman.lanl.gov
Organization: Los Alamos National Laboratory


In article 28453@spdc.ti.com, serafin@epcot.spdc.ti.com (Mike Serafin) writes:
>From Webster's New Collegiate dictionary
>
>      entreprenuer : one who organizes, manages, and assumes 
>                   the risk of a business or enterprise
>

Ooooh, I _really wish Webster hadn't put it _quite_ that way.  ;-)
---

___________________________ John "HUTCH" Hutchinson _________________________
_________________ Fair Dinkum Technologies     Member - IAAD  _______________
________________ "No worries, mate... it's from Fair Dinkum!" _______________
____________ email: hutch@bellman.lanl.gov   GEnie: FAIR-DINKUM _____________
From: CHRIS@RICEVM1.RICE.EDU
Newsgroups: misc.entrepreneurs
Subject: Going Public --  IPO
Date: 26 Aug 1992 21:59:15 GMT
Organization: Rice University

I would like to get information on going public, IPO.  If possible
provide a name and number so contact can be made.
My number is 713-527-4008, home 713-852-4008.
From: noring@netcom.com (Jon Noring)
Newsgroups: misc.entrepreneurs
Subject: Re: Amway
Date: 2 Sep 92 18:49:21 GMT
Followup-To: alt.business.multi-level
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services  (408 241-9760 guest)

In article llarsen%peruvian.utah.edu@cs.utah.edu (Loren Larsen) writes:

>Am I the only one here who is SICK of hearing about the battle of the MLMs?
>...I believe there is a group just for such discussions...  Just take this
>discussion to where it belongs...

The newsgroup to discuss MLM's is alt.business.multi-level.  I also suggest
that this thread be stopped on misc.entrepreneurs and redirected to a.b.m-l.

Jon


-- 
=============================================================================
| Jon Noring          | noring@netcom.netcom.com | "The dogs bark, but the  |
| JKN International   | IP    : 192.100.81.100   |  caravan moves on."      |
| 1312 Carlton Place  | Phone : (510) 294-8153   | "Pack your lunch, sit in |
| Livermore, CA 94550 | V-Mail: (510) 862-1101   |  the bushes, and watch." |
=============================================================================
"If your annual income today is $50,000, you have the same buying power as
the average coal miner did in 1949, adjusted for taxes and inflation," John
Sestina, nationally recognized Certified Financial Planner;  quoted in 1987.
From: asm@ecl.psu.edu (Aravind  Melligeri)
Newsgroups: misc.entrepreneurs
Subject: Laser Toner recharging; info wanted....
Date: 26 Aug 92 21:37:39 EDT
Organization: Engineering Computer Lab, Pennsylvania State University

Hello,
I would like to know if anyone out there in the netland has experience in the
bussiness of Toner Recharging. 
I was interested in getting into this bussiness. Where can I get the knowhow 
for this bussiness. how much of initial investment I should expect?. 
thanx.
--Aravind S. Melligeri				
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
System Administrator		       |		        asm@ecl.psu.edu
Dept. of Mechanical Engg.	       |		      off: 814-865-2062
Pennsylvania State Univ. 	       |		      res: 814-867-5922	
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Xref: sparky misc.entrepreneurs:2701 alt.business.multi-level:430
From: rbeck@mordor.dseg.ti.com (Ron Beck)
Newsgroups: misc.entrepreneurs,alt.business.multi-level
Subject: Re: Amway
Keywords: Free Enterprise
Date: 4 Sep 92 14:09:59 GMT
Reply-To: rbeck@mordor.dseg.ti.com
Organization: When I get time...

some stuff deleted...

|> No this IS NOT the ideal forum for this subject! Entrepreneurship <> MLM.
|> I'm working with a group trying to raise funds and create SW products to create
|> a startup.  That is entrepreneurship.

I was able to raise the funds required to start a distribution network by not
taking my wife out to dinner & a movie last month.

|> 
|> Trying to convince friends, relatives, or someone you just met to sell soap
|> that they buy from you, that you buy from someone else, that (etc etc) is
|> salesmanship (at best). 

If this is your understanding of the business you may have missed a few key
points.  I won't bore you with the details though.

|> 
|> My first experience with AMWAY was a call from an old friend who claimed to 
|> respect my business sense and wondered if I'd like to meet with him and 
|> "his partner" to talk over "a business proposition".  Well, my "business
|> sense"  told me it was damn suspicious that he wouldn't disclose any details,
|> but he was an old friend and.... (sound familiar to anyone yet?).  Arrive at
|> house, get 30 minutes of vague pitch, hear that this is a "Christian Business"
|> (whatever that is supposed to mean), insist he get to point, AMWAY, whoops
|> gotta go, time is money and youse wasting my time.

You must not like grocery stores, department stores, discount stores, etc...  I
really don't do anything different than they do by supplying goods & services to
the public and making a profit.

|> 
|> Future experience have been more sucessfully avoided. But like these posts
|> YOU GUYS JUST DONT GET IT--try to understand this--GO AWAY. This is not
|> the forum for you.

I'm sorry you've had such a bad experience.  It seems obivous that there are
several folks out there that think you're a very sharp person who would do well
in the Amway business should you decide to give it a try.  I wish you good luck
with your SW business, and I say this without sarcasm.  Most people would rather
work for someone else until they're 65 or 70.  You're obivously someone who
wants to control their future.  This is what I saw when I was shown "the plan".

|> 
|> --------------------
|> flame off
|> _____________________
|> yea I know about kill files, I just felt I had "to share" with these droids
|> that they are not welcome everywhere they go.
|> 
|>  

No flames intended...just MHO.
-- 
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ronald J. Beck           | IP rbeck@mordor.dseg.ti.com |Do now what others
Member, Group Tech Staff | MaBell (214) 952-4566       |won't so you can do
Texas Instruments        |                             |later what others
McKinney, Texas          |                             |can't
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Newsgroups: misc.entrepreneurs,alt.business.multi-level
From: Marker Man
Subject: Re: Amway
Keywords: Free Enterprise 
Reply-To: Marker Man
Organization: That "Pyramid" Corp.
Date: Thu, 03 Sep 1992 13:29:13 GMT

    OK, Steve.  Point taken.  I just became aware of this newsgroup
a few days ago, and felt that I needed to take time out to defend my		
choses MLM.
    Yes, this newsgroup would be an ideal forum to share ideas about
recruiting/sponsoring, or any of the issues we have in common.

MM
From: Grant.Cunningham@p55.f54.n105.z1.therose.pdx.com (Grant Cunningham)
Newsgroups: misc.entrepreneurs
Subject: implementation of an idea..
Date: 28 Aug 92 09:46:06 GMT
Article-I.D.: therose.715099346.F00001

Gary Fritz  wrote about "implementation of an idea..".
Here's what GRANT CUNNINGHAM thinks:

 >> The basic problem with your question is that ideas are cheap.
 GF> in his "How to Get Rich in America" tape series, spends some time
 GF> talking about this.  Ideas are a dime a dozen, he says.

As someone once said, "Ideas are a dime a dozen with a nickle's change!"

-=[ Grant ]=-

Fight-O-Net:  1:105/54.55
Eunuchs: UUCP  ...!{reed, m2xenix}!glacier!busker!54.55!Grant.Cunningham
         INTERNET  Grant.Cunningham@p55.f54.n105.z1.FIDONET.ORG
Newsgroups: misc.entrepreneurs
From: J024330@LMSC5.IS.LMSC.LOCKHEED.COM
Subject: Re: Need info on correspondence degree programs
Organization: Lockheed Missiles & Space Company, Inc.
Date: Wed, 2 Sep 92 17:46:46 GMT

Frank Sayre had a lot of questions.  I have one answer, but chose not to repost
his question.

When looking at accreditation, look for the Western Association of Colleges.
This (according to a counselor at De Anza College in Cupertino, CA) is the
only accreditation honored by places such as Stanford, Harvard, University
of California, Yale, etc., etc,.  I wanted to get a degree at UOP (University
of Phoenix) in our local area.  My employer would not accept it as a degree
because it lacked this accreditation.

Good Luck.
Newsgroups: misc.entrepreneurs
From: J024330@LMSC5.IS.LMSC.LOCKHEED.COM
Subject: Re: Amway
Organization: Lockheed Missiles & Space Company, Inc.
Date: Fri, 28 Aug 92 14:30:12 GMT

From: <SAYED@auvm.american.edu>writes in article:
<92240.115813SAYED@auvm.american.edu>

>Primerica is better than Ammway
>you have the support of a $30 billion company
>you can make 6 digit income or in some  cases even seven!!!
>most people say Amway is fake, but like what they see with Primerica.
>Primerica is a memeber of New York stock exchange and they are a
>  fortun 500 company.
>Their support is excelent and they will provide excelent training
>
>If you need more info....ask me about it.
>Sayed


Ok Sayed,

You did it on misc.jobs.contract and misc.jobs.offered.  Promoting an MLM,
only there you disguised it as a job.  The flame war it started should have
made you wise, but alas, not so.

Please excuse me for shouting but, DONT PROMOTE MLMs ON USENET!  Whew, thank
you, that feels better.  May I suggest posting a request on news.newusers.ques-
tions something that requests an FAQ for ediquette on these news groups?

Now Sayed, before all is said and done, Primerica is an MLM.  MLM stands for
Multi Level Marketing.  Bandwidth doesn't allow an indepth essay on MLMs.
Most people who post here are aware of MLMs (as you should have discovered in
misc.jobs.*).  In misc.entrepreneurs and alt.business.multi-level, people
are dealing with certain issues by asking questions and giving answers:

Requestor: Hi, I'm curious about xyz company. Can anyone tell me....

Responder: This has been my experience....

If some guy is discussing AMWAY, he wants to know about AMWAY.  If you feel you
have something better, try using E-Mail (electronic mail), then promote, pro-
mote, promote.  If someone asks about Primerica, jump on the bandwagon, and by
all means, give it your best, but be wary of trying to persuade someone to
sign up with you on a discussion group.  Give the information requested, and
follow up with E-Mail if you want to press on a little further.

Beware about knocking the competition.  You will lose prospects quicker than
you can sell.  BTW, if your competitor reads something derogatory you wrote
about them, you had better be prepared to support your position because it
could land you in court.  How do the Madison Ave. advertising giants get
away with it (Burger King is better than McDonalds)?  High paid attorneys.
They know how far they can cross the line.

To other netters: I apologize for not following up in alt.business.multi-level
but my system is a client to the host, and I don't have the capability to
follow up elsewhere so please don't waste bandwidth by flaming me for posting
here.  I will cross post this to alt.business.multi-level, but I have to do
it through the Berkeley DAEMON.
From: gmw1@cunixa.cc.columbia.edu (Gabe M Wiener)
Newsgroups: misc.entrepreneurs
Subject: Postal bar coding
Date: 4 Sep 92 04:30:40 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: Columbia University

Any folks familiar with postal barcoding rules?

I'm curious as to whether you need to put the FIM-B (|| | ||) on *outgoing*
pieces if you're mailing in bulk.  I know that FIM-B is recommended for 
incoming "courtesy" reply mail, and FIM-C (|| | | ||) is required for
business reply mail, but what's the deal on outgoing mail?

Can anyone recommend a good reference source on this stuff?  Trying to call
the mailing requirements division of the local post office has resulted in
being put on perpetual hold.


--
Gabe Wiener - Columbia Univ.     "This 'telephone' has too many shortcomings 
gmw1@cunixa.cc.columbia.edu       to be seriously considered as a means of 
N2GPZ in ham radio circles        communication. The device is inherently of
72355,1226 on CI$                 no value to us." -Western Union memo, 1877
Newsgroups: misc.entrepreneurs
From: danr@ais.org (Daniel Romanchik)
Subject: Re: Food  and copyright ???
Organization: UMCC
Date: Thu, 27 Aug 1992 22:31:03 GMT

In article <2465@cronos.metaphor.com> covdy@cronos.metaphor.com (Ivan Covdy) writes:
>
>Suppose, I invented how to make burgers or something similar, 
>that is, such a recipe, which might be used by any restaurant.
>Is there a way I can make money on it and protect my authorship?

I've got the reverse question.  Is there any law that prevents me from
making a profit off a food product whose recipe I found in a book?  In
other words, can I make and sell the product without paying the author
a royalty?  Or, could I teach a cooking class using those recipes?

I don't think I owe the author anything, but I'm an editor not a
lawyer.  :)

Dan
Newsgroups: misc.entrepreneurs
From: slk1@rigel.uucp (26121-kranyec)
Subject: BAR CODE
Organization: Bellcore, Livingston, NJ
Date: Wed, 2 Sep 92 13:52:55 GMT

In the past several weeks someone asked where to get a bar code for a product.
I read it but didn't print it and I now need the information also.  If any of
you have this information can you please forward it to me.


Thanks in advance.