HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: oliver@delphi.nosc.mil (George Oliver)
Subject: Re: Artisan Table Saw
Organization: Naval Ocean Systems Center, San Diego, CA
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1 PL7]
Date: Tue, 15 Dec 1992 00:00:28 GMT

Tom Johnson (tomj@monster.apd.saic.com) wrote:
: oliver@delphi.nosc.mil (George Oliver) writes:
: 
: >Bill Wiegand (pictures@ux1.cso.uiuc.edu) wrote:
: >: I was in my local Ace Hardware store earlier today and wandered into
: >: their "industrial" power and hand tool area to check out their advertised
: >: Bosch products.  While there I saw an Artisan table saw.  I've never heard
: >: of that brand and the saw look very nice and was equipped with Vega  
: >: stationary and sliding fences.  The saw looked a lot like Delta
: >: Contractors saw.  Anyone ever heard of Artisan power tools?  
: >: 
: >: Thanks in advance,
: >: Bill Wiegand
: >: pictures@ux1.cso.uiuc.edu
: 
: >The saw I think you are talking about is made by Powermatic.  I just bought
: >one of these saws and am very pleased with it.  I have used the Delta
: >Contractors saw and I prefer the Powermatic.  If you compare the two side
: >by side you will find the materials and the quality of the Powermatic Artisan
: >saw much better than the Delta Contractors.
: 
: This is an interesting comment! I'd always heard that Delta was King, and
: that the others were mere pretenders to the throne.  Could you give
: us a few more specifics about what the differences are?  Very few
: of us have the opportunity to do a true side-by-side comparison.  I'm 
: hoping to end up with a table saw after we move into our new house (that
: is, if there's any money left over ....) 
: 
: Thanks,
: -- tom
: 
: 

The dealer I bought my Artisan's saw from also carried Delta.  While the base
Delta Contractor's saw was less expensive ~550 with rebate, I thought by taking
everything into consideration the Powermatic Artisan's ~700 was a better deal.
First off the fence is better.  Delta: Jet Lock; Powermatic: Vega.  Next, the
Powermatic's motor was beefier, the steel gauge used for the cabinet is
heavier, the cranks are higher quality and the wings are cast iron verses the
Delta stamped steel.  One of the deciding factors for me was the fence.  The
Vega fence system is similar to the Biesemeyer in that it locks only on the
front rail.  If I wanted to get an aftermarket fence for the Delta, I would
end up spending an additional $200 for a good fence.  So even though I
spent more money, it worked out and I am very happy with my purchase.

By the way, I had a problem with one of the wings (warped) and Powermatic
was very quick about taking care of it.

Regards,
Geo.

Standard disclaimer.
Newsgroups: rec.woodworking
From: RYLV80@waccvm.corp.mot.com (William Mohrman)
Subject: Re: WoodSmith dovetail jig
Organization: Motorola
Date: 18 Dec 1992 07:54:19 MST

>|> I'm considering ordering issue #58 of WoodSmith and building their
>|> dovetail jig, mostly because people here said they liked it and it's
|> a cheap way to go.  But first I'm trying to add up the cost.  I called
>|> WoodSmith and asked about the cost of the hardware kit ($34.95) but
>|> the lady I spoke with couldn't tell me if I would also need to buy a
>|> bushing for my router.
>|>
>|> Could some kind soul with issue #58 tell me if I need a bushing to go
>|> with my 1/2" dovetail and what size they specify if so?

>  Jeff,
> As requested, per Woodsmith #58:
>You will need to get your own 7/8" outside diameter guide bushing to fit
>your router.  Start with a dealer who carries accessories for your router.

Surely you mean a 7/16" bushing.  7/8 will not fit the woodsmith jig.
I don't have article in front of me, but...

>If anyone has built and used one, please let me know what you think.
>It would be perfect if someone has USED both the Woodsmith jig and
>either the Porter-Cable Omni-jig or the Leigh and could compare results.

I built the Woodsmith Jig but have no experience with the other two.
The woodsmith jig worked as advertised for 1/2 blind dovetails.
The initial set up is somewhat tedious, but the results are
impressive.

As with most tools, I suspect I would spend the money on a leigh or
Omni Jig if I was doing dovetails for a living.

BTW, I found that a smaller router 1 Hp range (ie lighter) with a
convienent depth adjustment makes using this jig much easier.
I started with my 3 HP plunge and quickly found that a smaller
router was more managable.
Bill Mohrman
Motorola SPS
Columbus, OH

Opinions are all mine.
---------------------------------------------------------------------
Newsgroups: rec.woodworking
From: Nick_Janow@mindlink.bc.ca (Nick Janow)
Subject: Re: Re: Scraping versus Sanding
Organization: MIND LINK! - British Columbia, Canada
Date: Fri, 18 Dec 1992 08:11:06 GMT

gph@hpcc01.corp.hp.com (G. Paul Houtz) wrote:

> Of course, before I TOUCH that curly maple with my scraper, I have sanded
> it down smooth with at LEAST a 200 grit sandpaper on an orbital sander.
> Then, I take my scraper and hone a dead flat, straight edge, and touch it
> with the burnisher with just one or to complete strokes.

Doesn't the scraper edge dull quickly?  I thought that it was quite difficult
to get all the particles of abrasive grit off the wood after sanding.

I could see the point of sanding rather than planing to get the initial flat
surface, if and only if the surface was prone to tear-out.  If not, I
couldn't imagine choosing noisy, dusty, unpleasant sanding instead of the
crisp curls of wood whispering out of the throat of a hand plane.

Oh well, there's no one correct way to do woodworking, only personal
preferences.  :)

--

Nick_Janow@mindlink.bc.ca
Newsgroups: rec.woodworking
From: eap@vuse.vanderbilt.edu (Edward A. Parrish)
Subject: Re: Safest way to use radial arm saw?
Organization: Vanderbilt University School of Engineering, Nashville, TN, USA
Date: Fri, 18 Dec 1992 22:35:28 GMT

In article <Treble-181292095032@asc438.asc.slb.com> Treble@asc.slb.com (John Treble) writes:
>This may sound like a stupid question, but I'll risk the ridicule
>anyway....
>
>My father died recently and I inherited his old Sear radial arm saw.  I
>have only part
>of the owners manual. Unfortunately, the part that descibes the setup of
>the table is missing.  I would like to know what the safest recommended way
>to use this saw.
>Do I set up the fence so that the saw is parked the furthest away from me
>behind the fence? Or do I park the saw closest to me in front of the fence?
> Is it best to push the blade through the work, or pull it through the
>work?
>
>I also have one of those wobbling dado heads, and consider it to be the
>most vicious tool I've ever seen!  How do you put the guard on that beast?

I have such a RAS and will be happy to send you a copy of the
instructions, if you give me a mailing address. In the meantime,
the fence position is always in back of the saw. The teeth rotate
in a direction that tends to push the workpiece back against the
fence. The fence also serves to keep the wood from splintering
when the teeth exit the workpiece. You NEVER push the blade through
the work.

There is a Sears molding head guard that works with some
dado heads - it does with mine, and I have both the wobble
and the chipper types.

Try going into a Sears store and getting a knowledgeable
(important) salesperson to demonstrate proper use. 

-- 
Goal: To benefit from the offer for "Free Tools Tomorrow" that
is posted in many store windows.
Standard Disclaimer, of course.
From: sgarcia@cisco.com (Steven Garcia)
Newsgroups: rec.woodworking
Subject: Re: WoodSmith dovetail jig
Date: 18 Dec 1992 21:46:29 GMT
Organization: cisco Systems, Incorporated
Distribution: usa
NNTP-Posting-Host: lager.cisco.com

In article <68m201j@rpi.edu>, ameres@ithaca.cat.rpi.edu (Eric Ameres) writes:
|> In article <1goopmINNim6@roche.csl.sri.com> sgarcia@cisco.com (Steven Garcia) writes:
|> >As requested, per Woodsmith #58:
|> >You will need to get your own 7/8" outside diameter guide bushing to fit
|> >your router.  Start with a dealer who carries accessories for your router.
|> 
|> Whoa!!!  My copy of WoodSmith #58 says the following (reprinted
|> without permission from "Sources" on page 24 middle of column 3):
|> 
|> GUIDE BUSHING:  You'll need a 7/16" outside diameter quide bushing for
|> 1/2" dovetails and a 5/16" guide bushing for 1/4" dovetails.
|> 

Yikes! Did I write 7/8?  Sorry about that, all.  Hope no one tried to order
a 7/8 OD guide.  An interesting note -- I went back and checked my Woodsmith
and my copy doesn't say anything about 1/4" dovetails.  I'd long ago decided
one couldn't do it.  What gives?

Steve Garcia
     (415) 688-7642)
     <sgarcia@cisco.com>

From: rstarr@pollux.svale.hp.com (Rob Starr)
Date: Thu, 17 Dec 1992 22:29:10 GMT
Subject: Re: Re: Bad experience w/Shields Supply
Organization: Hewlett Packard CPCD, Sunnyvale CA
Newsgroups: rec.woodworking

Since the door is open, I'll second the motion of some previous replys that
having to return a power tool to Sears is a drag.  Long ago when I thought
Craftsman power tools were the thing to get, I had a sander crap out on
me after short order.  Being an inquisitive sort, I disassembled the sander
to discover the problem.  I found that it was a wearout problem due to a
basic poor design.  Getting another sander of the same model would not
fix anything because it too would certainly fail the same way in a short 
period of time.  (This was a random orbit sander about 10+ years back.)

So like the others, I now only buy professional (non-Sears, non-Black & Decker)
power tools.  Much mo betta.

In fairness, I do use Sears mechanics tools with no complaints.  Too bad their
power tools aren't like their sockets & wrenches.


Newsgroups: rec.woodworking
From: smb@research.att.com (Steven Bellovin)
Subject: Re: Questions about building an exterior door
Date: Wed, 16 Dec 1992 16:27:45 GMT
Organization: AT&T Bell Laboratories

In article <1992Dec16.005112.5567@eos.arc.nasa.gov>, phil@eos.arc.nasa.gov (Phil Stone) writes:
> I plan to make the door with up to 7) 5" (or thereabouts) X 1"
> pine boards, running vertically, with a "Z" arrangement of braces;
> basically, this is a very traditional door style, and I'm sure you've
> all seen many examples of it.
> 
> Tongue-and-groove seems to be a good method for joining the vertical
> planks (suggest otherwise if you disagree).

Umm -- I think you're going to get in trouble with expansion and contraction
of the door as the humidity changes.  We have that problem with some T&G
pine doors to closets in our basement -- in the summer, they're almost
unusable.
Newsgroups: rec.woodworking
From: scot@fc.hp.com (Scot Heath)
Subject: Re: microwave wood?
Date: Fri, 18 Dec 1992 22:42:00 GMT
Organization: Hewlett-Packard Fort Collins Site
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1.8 PL6]

Install a bigger kitchen fan.
From: davek@informix.com (David Kosenko)
Newsgroups: rec.woodworking
Subject: Re: dowels vs dados vs t&g
Date: 14 Dec 92 19:37:09 GMT
Organization: Informix Software, Inc.

Jeff Roberts writes:
>On Mon, 7 Dec 1992 07:37:53 -0600 Eric Ameres said:
>>After several setbacks and sidelines, I have begun making the cabinets
>>for my renovated house..........
><I'd rather not buy a biscuit machine just now text deleted>
>Eric, lets talk biscuits:
>
>What can I say that will convince you that you need one of these machines?
>Think about how easy it will be to match aaaallll those joints when you butt
>them together, how you don't need to be millemeter perfect like dowels, close
>enough is good enough for a perfect joint.  Or think of how fast it will be
>to make an itty bitty pencil line on both pieces for precise alignment and
>WAMMO your done buddy, you just cut two slots and nobody even noticed. Or how
>about the nice surface match up you'll get (provided you don't drop the tool
>and need to re-adjust).  Your friends and neighbors will ooooooooo and aaaaahh
>hhh at the speed and precision, and boy when you whip that tool out to show'em
>how you did it they'll say "I ain't never seen one of them thingy's before"
>and you'll say "Yes,....I know that."  You'll be the Barron of Biscuits, the
>Juice of Joinery, the MAN WHO SLEEPS WITH HIS BRAND NEW BISCUIT JOINTER NEXT
>TO HIS BED, Amen..

Well, with 2 cabinets left to go (actually, just face frames and doors,
since the carcasses got built last night) of a kitchen full, let me offer
my opinion on this topic ;-)

For building rail and panel doors and cabinet face frames, biscuits are
useless (I have a biscuit cutter btw) because, at least for mine, the frames
are too narrow for even a #0 biscuit.  I suppose they could be used for
assembling the carcass (I prefer dados myself) or for holding the face frames
to the carcass (I prefer finish nails in the event that I someday want to
change the look, so removal of the frames is a snap), but generally the BC
sits unused (I did find it handy for making drawers, though).  So for
cabinet making, you don't convince me.

Btw, my dowelling jig (a Stanley) requires the same sort of pencil mark
needed for a biscuit cutter, i.e. "an itty bitty pencil line."

For the records, I also used mortice and tenon joints on some of the door
frames, but with no tennoning jig, I was not happy with the precision of
the fit.  Dowelling seems to me the best solution for this particular
application.

Dave
-- 
Disclaimer: These opinions are not those of Informix Software, Inc.
**************************************************************************
"I look back with some satisfaction on what an idiot I was when I was 25,
 but when I do that, I'm assuming I'm no longer an idiot." - Andy Rooney
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU
Newsgroups: rec.woodworking
Date:         Tue, 15 Dec 1992 09:44:06 EST
From:         Doug Cutler <UNCDWC@UNCVM1.BITNET>
Subject:      Re: Auto-scrolling or no auto-scrolling

   Well I don't know what auto scrolling is so I cannot answer that, however
last Christmas I got a Bosch "Click" jig saw, it is a dream, so smooth and
quiet.  I have cut 1/16 ply to 12/4 Cherry with it, all with little problem.
Now Bosch almost forces you to use their blades but I have found them to
be much superior to the other that I was using with my old (1965) Sears
and well worth the money.


  Doug. Cutler                       Office of Information Technology,
  VM Systems Programmer              University of North Carolina.
From: kassover@rumsey.crd.ge.com (David Kassover)
Newsgroups: rec.woodworking
Subject: Re: Piano kits & CD scratches
Date: 17 Dec 92 01:07:55 GMT
Organization: nope

In article <1992Dec16.180108.3325@afit.af.mil>
fkilpatr@afit.af.mil (Freeman A. Kilpatrick) writes:
>
>Thanks for cluing me in, and special thanks to those who actually gave me
>encouragement for what is probably a foolish endeavour.  You will be glad to know
>that I have decided to make a wooden tuba instead. :)

Ah, that's not quite so funny.  Have you ever taken a tour
through a large pipe organ?  The pipes that make the sounds
associated with the brass instruments are often reed driven
square or rectangular section wooden boxes.

Some of these pipes have a conical profile, as well.  And I am
told by a friend of mine who is a student of such things that he
has seen one implementation of a rank of 32' tuba pipes.  Some of
which happen to be  32' long.  But there wasn't clearance in the
loft for a 32' long object floor to ceiling, so the builder put
four right angle turns in the pipe.  Think of the joinery
required to get a conical profiled rectangular object.

-- 
David Kassover             "Proper technique helps protect you against
uupsi!khazad!kassover	          sharp weapons and dull judges."
kassover@aule-tek.com                   F. Collins
kassover@ra.crd.ge.com
From: tomj@monster.apd.saic.com (Tom Johnson)
Subject: Artisan Vendors
Organization: SAIC, Reston, VA
Date: Fri, 18 Dec 1992 16:11:14 GMT

Greetings, all!

I'm about to purchase a table saw (Yay! Finally!), and I'm trying to 
decide between the Delta and Artisan contractor's saws.

I'm having trouble finding anyone who carries the Artisan saw.  
So, a couple of questions:
	(1)  Which mail-order houses sell the Artisan?
        (2)  Does anyone know of vendors around Northern Virginia?
        (3)  Is there an owner in the Washington area who might let
Thanks to all!!

-- tomj
From: hosken@spss.com (Bill Hosken)
Newsgroups: rec.woodworking
Subject: Re: another plea for mantle advice
Date: 11 Dec 92 21:19:00 GMT
Organization: SPSS, Inc.

In article <cf_8vvf0Bwxd9=tsp8@transarc.com>, Ken_Ziolkowski@transarc.com writes:
> 
>   My wife and I just bought an older (35 years) home
> and we have a very nice fireplace in the living room
> but it has no mantlepiece.
> 
>   I would appreciate any advice, ideas, recommendations,
> including books and articles, that anyone out there
> can provide.
> 
>   The cedar closets will be the second project.
> 
> Ken
> 
> 

I was lucky enough to happen on to some large pieces
of Redwood salvaged from an old water tank.  These were
about 4" thick and two pieces edge glued made a good sized
mantle.  There was enough left to use, after some shaping,
as moulding to fit around the fireplace brick.  

You might consider searching for some large pieces of salvaged
lumber.
Newsgroups: rec.woodworking
From: ameres@ithaca.cat.rpi.edu (Eric Ameres)
Subject: Re: dowels vs dados vs t&g
Organization: Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute, Troy, NY
Distribution: na
Date: Tue, 15 Dec 1992 19:38:10 GMT

Having recently used both dowels and biscuits I would say they both
have their place.  I am keeping my doweling jig for those few times
when a #0 is just too large (i.e. face frames if I ever abandon
frameless cabinets or hopefully get into more varied furniture
making).  I think I would probably run into this case seldom enough to
not warrant buying special biscuits and a new blade.  This way I also
force myself to get my money's worth out of my cursed doweling jig.

However, after using my biscuit jointer the thought of going back to
numerous dowels turns my stomach.  The biscuits are so much more
tolerant when aligning, you can do it with "one itty-bitty line" as
one poster put it.  Doweling required all that clamping and
reclamping, depth setting and resetting and even then, because of slop
in my doweling jig, I was still not always assured of a good fit.  Not
to mention biscuits are much easier to dry-test fit.

So my advice to the original poster (myself) is definitely buy a
biscuit joiner for large scale work (2+" edge) and save the dowels for
tight spaces (less than 2").

Dados I can't comment on because I'm having a hard time getting my saw
and dado head cutter to aggree.  The inner flange (combination collar
and blade stabilizer, I guess) on my radial arm (DeWalt 7749?) is too
wide and pushes my Craftsman Excaliber 2 blade wobbler out too far on
the arbor.  It's possible to put the nut on but the nut would then rub
against the blade guard (OUCH!!)  Any advice ??  The blade is over a
year old (don't ask) so I probably can't just return it and get a
stacked dado (and it was the first woodworking present from my wife).

Eric.
-- 
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Eric Ameres,  Software Engineer                 ameres@cat.rpi.edu
New York State Center for Advanced Technology in Automation & Robotics
Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute - CII 8313, Troy, NY 12180-3590
Newsgroups: rec.woodworking
From: grun@intellistor.com (Paul Grun)
Subject: Aging Cherry and finishes
Organization: Intellistor, Inc.
Date: Tue, 15 Dec 92 23:27:04 GMT

After reading the thread on what finishes to apply to
cherry, and the discussion about the effects of sunlight on
a finish, I find myself with one question that I don't think
was addressed.  If it was, sorry to be bringing this up again,
I must have missed it.

Anyway, does the type of finish used
affect the natural aging of cherry?  As I understand it,
cherry will continue to age and deepen in color for some time
after the piece is finished, right?  I can clearly imagine this
happening with an oil finish, but does it also occur if the
finish is laquer?  What about poly?  Wiping varnish?  Water
based finish?  

I always thought that the aging process was the
result of oxidation of some substance in the wood.  If the 
finish is a 'top coat' (like polyurethane), I would guess that
the exchange of oxygen would cease and so would the mellowing.
On the other hand, the recent thread suggested that the deepening
color is due to the presence of sunlight (hi-E glass notwithstanding)
and would, therefore be independent of the finish coat, assuming that
I'm not using a UV blocking varnish.

The reason I'm asking is because I like the look of 'naturally
aged' cherry as opposed to the deep rich red color that can come
from staining a piece, and I'm willing to wait to achieve it,
but if I use the wrong finish, I could potentially be waiting
forever! (or even longer!).

Who knows the answer?
Thanks
-Paul
-- 

goes to show, you don't ever know...
grun@intellistor.com
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU
Newsgroups: rec.woodworking
Date:         Fri, 18 Dec 1992 19:44:27 EST
From:         ZGDSHSE <ZGDSHSE@SJUMUSIC.BITNET>
Subject:      Yes, I Use Watc

A 12-15 years ago I build huge speaker cabinets of walnut
solids and veneers.  Finsihed with with Wao.  I still have
them and love the finish.  When it gets a bit scratched (as
things will), you just wipe on a new coat like you did in the
first place.  It is super easy to maintain.

I like a wax over the finish, by the way.  Our local Pergament
just quit selling Watch and I bought gallons for (you'll want
to be seated for this....$2.00 a GALLON).  Needless to say I
loaded up on it as I like it quite a lot.

If you have an open grain be sure to seal it first so it is
nice and smooth.

Wet sanding with Watco as the "wet" works great.  That way the
sawdust (at 400-600 grit) fills poors and is already stained.
It is pretty nice stuff, in my opinin.

I'd like to know how you like it -

Gene Sampson
Xref: sparky rec.woodworking:8634 alt.save.the.earth:1432 talk.environment:5136