From: spwim@mars.lerc.nasa.gov (Wim Degroot)
Subject: Re: Job (baan)
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41    
Organization: NASA Lewis Research Center
Date: 19 Aug 1992 09:05 EDT  

In article <ERIC.92Aug18100643@matisse.ling.flab.fujitsu.co.jp>, eric@flab.fujitsu.co.jp (eric) writes...
>In article <14AUG199215565758@mars.lerc.nasa.gov>,
>spwim@mars.lerc.nasa.gov (Wim Degroot) wrote: 
> 
>>As far as I know, all countries that I have lived in require citizenship for
>>any government job, whether it is a social services, an environmental job or
>>anything else, whether that is wrong or right. Discrimination has nothing to 
>>do with that. A foreigner can not land a Dutch government job without becoming
>                 ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>>Dutch first. Are Dutch discriminating against everybody not Dutch? I thought 
> ^^^^^^^^^^^^
>In article <Bt49tz.CpA@rivm.nl>, laeeb@rivm.nl (Erminio Ballerini)
>replied: 
> 
>> Sorry, but I have to correct that. I have the Italian nationality and I work
>> for a governmental institute (part of WVC)
> 

I am sorry to have made this mistake. However, I'd like to hear from someone
who is better informed on this subject. I have the impression that the laws
have changed over the last few years in favor of the EC citizenship. As far as
I know, it wsa not possible when I left NL in '80 to have a Dutch government
job, being a foreigner, but EC rules might have changed that. 

>foreigners either, as far as I know. Also, people who have lived in
>the Netherlands for at least five (?) years are allowed to vote in
>municipal elections, regardless of nationality; and they wouldn't be

Probably you mean "who have lived in the Netherlands legally for at least five
(?) years". That is true. Even here in the US, you can become citizen after 
having lived and worked here for five years. The problem is that if you are
not welcome in a certain country, it is difficult to live there for five years
legally, making your statement kind of redundant. I also doubt that a foreign 
national could get a job in the Dutch police as you seem to indicate. Let me 
also state that I could be wrong in all matters, since laws seem to change from
year to year. When my brother married a foreigner in 1984, his wife automatically
became Dutch citizen the same day after filling out some paper work. When I 
married a foreigner a few years later, I was notified that it was going to take
five years for my wife to be eligible for NL citizenship. In addition she was
expected to know a few things about Dutch language. culture and history (excatly
what, we do not know, since our local Dutch consul, the Embassy and the Dutch
dept. of foreign affairs each send us a different set of requirements).

>PS. For those of you who are interested, in Japan foreigners cannot
>get jobs with any level of government; also, discrimination is not
>illegal (they can keep you out of disco's, refuse to rent you a house
>or whatever and just say up front "no, we don't take foreigners").

As far as I know, orientals in general are probably the most discriminating race
out of all major races (my wife is oriental and she agrees). However, the 
origin of that discrimination lies more in the closed society and the bad
experiences they have had with other (especially whites) races, whereas the
basis of discrimination of whites is generally hatred. (I am sorry if this
strong statement hits a nerve in some places).
_Wim

>--
>---------------------------------------------------------------------
>Eric M. Visser                         email: eric@flab.fujitsu.co.jp
>Fujitsu Laboratories Ltd.              phone: 044 - 754 - 2671
>Kawasaki, Japan                        fax  : 044 - 754 - 2570
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