HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: seymour@stein.u.washington.edu (Richard Seymour)
Subject: ResponseLine vs. BasicLine  ... a question or two...
Organization: University of Washington, Seattle
Date: Fri, 16 Oct 1992 18:32:26 GMT

We are preparing a purchase order for HP's software service for our two
 HP 710's (currently running 8.07), and we're trying to choose between
 BasicLine and ResponseLine.  As far as the HP contacts have been able to
 tell us, the only difference between the two is "telephone support" on
 the latter (for $500/year more).  Fine.
What we have -not- gotten any sort of answer on (beyond: "Gee... i don't know")
(at least they're honest... but it took digging to get -that- one) is:

If we are BasicLine (no telephone support) how do we (a) report a bug 
 (b) determine if it is us or them (c) get patches/notice of patches which are
 -not- on the ftp server?

As a partial answer to (b), we were told that a call would be billed on time-
 and-materials basis.  Now, i can understand that (somewhat). But what i 
 can't understand is how i'd file a report which would result in (for example)
 the PHKL-1065 patch (the better-memory-paging patch).  Do i call in 
   (BasicLine, remember) and say "My HP is too slow with only 2 users"?
Do they bill me for that?  How do i pre-determine if they're going to bill me?

I'm used to a DEC environment.  Their lowest level of paid software support
 includes the right to submit Sofware Performance Reports (SPRs).  These
 are (used to be... you can do it by modem now) paper forms you'd describe
 a (suspected) bug on.  Their tracking mechanism would guarantee a response,
 although sometimes it might take a while... (you'd receive a tracking number
 by return mail fairly quickly).  My success with those was usually quite good.
Sometimes we'd get a telephoned response within two weeks.  Usually
 we'd report a problem (which we'd have tested on multiple machines and maybe
 operating system version numbers) with "how to demonstrate it".  Quite often
 we'd get an update tape in the mail within a month.  (the best experiences
 were usually with the Fortran Compiler).  The update tape would be the
 -up to the minute- patched version of the compiler... with a full list of
 all patches which had gone into it since the previous general release.
 Thus we'd see: what OTHER bugs were known (and had been fixed), which would
  let us review -our- programs to see if we'd been being bitten by -those-
 but simply hadn't noticed it...
(p.s. if we didn't -pay- for software support, dec would still accept SPR's,
  (after all, they still wanted to -hear- about their bugs)
 they just didn't -guarantee- a speedy, personalized, response.)

User experiences and HP (unofficial non-spokespeople) are encouraged...
thanks 
---dick
From: TCOM@SCSMTA.SWITCH.CH (TCOM)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.hp
Subject: Development on HP-Platform
Date: 14 Oct 92 13:21:43 GMT
Organization: SWISS ACADEMIC NETWORK
X-News-Reader: VMS NEWS 1.22

We are currently developing applications running Interactive Unix
on a PC. We are thinking of moving to a RISC platform for various
reasons (mainly speed, support and performance...). 

Why (if :-) ) did you choose the HP HP-Platform for development
and would you choose the same system again?

For our development we are using a variety of tools to
help us to get on with our product.

I would like to ask you if anyone has some experience with one or
more of the following tools on the HP platform::

GNU C-Compiler and Debugger (GDB)
XVT-Version 2/3      (User Interface Library)
XVT-Design           (Design Toolkit)
EMPRESS              (Relational Database)

What problems should we expect in this migration?

We really apprechiate your help on our decision!
Thanks a lot for your responses in advance and excuse
my swiss-german influenced english :-)...

Kind regards,

Beat Erb

from sunny Swi+zerland...                  
Newsgroups: comp.sys.hp
From: mjs@fc.hp.com (Marc Sabatella)
Subject: Re: Shared Libs on HP9000
Date: Fri, 9 Oct 1992 23:02:08 GMT
Reply-To: marc@hpmonk.fc.hp.com
Organization: Hewlett-Packard Fort Collins Site
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1.2 PL6]

: ...well, maybe we're not "normal", but our initial test-case medium-big
:  Fortran program went from a 146 seconds runtime to 104 seconds runtime by
:  invoking the non-shared library  (Wl,-a,archive).

Sounds like your program is mostly library bound, then, because that is
probably almost exactly the slowdown due to PIC.  The startup overhead is in
the range of a few hundred milliseconds normally, and then you can expect
library code to run 5-30% slower than normal.  If your program spends most of
its time in the libraries, then I can believe the program as a whole would slow
down by something approaching that factor.  Profiling (only possible with
archives at present) might show you where your time is being spent; it sounds
to me like 90% is in the libraries, not in your own code, even with archives.

--
Marc Sabatella
marc@hpmonk.fc.hp.com
From: richard@cs.brandeis.edu (Richard Congdon)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.hp
Subject: New low-end workstations
Date: 14 Oct 92 18:37:03 GMT
Organization: Brandeis University Computer Science

Does anyone know anything about the new PA7100 low end machines?

-- 
		Richard Congdon
		Brandeis University Computer Science
		617/736-2717
From: daves@hpcvusd.cv.hp.com (Dave Serisky)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.hp
Subject: Re: HPTERM
Keywords: hpterm survey
Date: 9 Oct 92 17:02:16 GMT
Organization: Hewlett-Packard Co., Corvallis, OR, USA

In article <69@interex.UUCP>, sullivan@interex.UUCP (John Sullivan) writes:
|> Comments on HPTERM:
|> 
|> It is too slow.  XTERM was 13 times faster displaying text on my 705, as
|> measured by this ksh script:
|> 
|> STARTTIME=$SECONDS
|> cat /usr/doc/rfc1035
|> echo start: $STARTTIME end: $SECONDS
|> 
|> Results:
|>            Standard 80x24 screen          Full 19" display
|>  HPTERM           38 seconds                 145 seconds
|>  XTERM             3 seconds                   4 seconds
|> 
|> 
|> HPTERM apparently enforces "smooth-scroll", as evidenced by watching
|> the text display!  I hate "smooth-scroll"!

Comparing apples to apples, I ran a similar test with jump-scrolling
turned off, 10 screens of scroll memory (240 lines), and the scrollbar
turned off.  My result was 56 seconds for hpterm vs 51 seconds for
xterm.  That says that xterm is 1.16 times faster then hpterm.  Most of
the difference is probably due to the added overhead that hpterm is
required to support (4 bits of display enhancements, 3 bits of color
enhancements, 4 (I think) bits of block mode enhancements, not to
mention (and probably not impacting in this case) 16bit characters).
While this was a sample size of one, it is consistent for what I have
observed in the past.  A quick run of one of my test programs, shows
that for scrolled output:

    hpterm:  4250 characters per second xterm:  4785 characters per
    second xlib:  4842 characters per second

The xlib number is for a 24 line window, same font, which scrolls in the
same manner as hpterm and xterm (w/o jump scroll):  copy area of lines
that are being scrolled, wait for and process any graphics expose or no
expose events, and scroll the next line.  Without jump scrolling, I think
that is as fast as you can get.  Hpterm runs at 88% the speed of straight
xlib and xterm runs at 99% (not bad xterm!).

Jump scrolling is a usable feature, although there is still a need for a
non-jump scrolling mode.  I once heard that a customer complained that
the scrolling speed of hpterm on the 700 was too fast -- they weren't
able to "parse" the output as it scrolled by.  Jump scrolling is one of
the features the hpterm team is looking at adding.  Your request for
jump scrolling has been noted.  If you want to have more impact on the
future of hpterm, I would suggest that you (and anyone else who uses
hpterm) fill out the survey I posted in this news group a few weeks ago
and send it in.  If you need a copy of the survey drop me a line
(daves@cv.hp.com) and I'll zip a new copy out in the mail.

-- 
-- Dave Serisky
From: xm9@sdcc12.ucsd.edu (richard g. adair)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.hp
Subject: Re: Killed ???
Summary: FORTRAN mega-hog!
Keywords: FORTRAN memory
Date: 14 Oct 92 14:20:31 GMT
Organization: Arete Associates, San Diego

In article <6149@dove.nist.gov> fein@epg.nist.gov writes:
>A FORTRAN programmer on my system just came to me with a situation where
>his FORTRAN program dies before the first line is executed and the only 
>message he gets is "Killed".  

Ahh, FORTRAN, that card deck of programming languages.  Your FORTRAN
program has HUGE arrays staticly defined.  When you start the
program, UNIX wanders off and tries to allocate all that memory.  Of
course, on a finite resource machine, it can't do this and says
"killed" (a typical UNIX-like response).  To correct the problem,
use SAM to increase the per-process memory limit.  WARNING: do not
set this higher than (RAMsize+SWAPsize)-10MB or your machine could
crap out.  Also, you should stop VUE from running, and suspend all
other jobs while this process is running, or you will swap out the
wazoo!

If you have a process that swaps, and have multiple disks, remember
that it is more efficient to have small swap areas on all disks than
a single large swap area...

Tony Burzio
Arete Associates
San Diego, CA
From: wib@karlo.informatik.uni-kiel.dbp.de (Willi Burmeister)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.hp
Subject: installing Fujitsu Drive in 720
Date: 14 Oct 1992 09:30:27 +0100
Organization: Dept. of Computer Science, University of Kiel, FRG
NNTP-Posting-Host: karlo.informatik.uni-kiel.dbp.de


We want to install a 500 MB Fujitsu Drive (M2624FA) in one of our HP 720.
Physicaly this was no problem. But the boot rom did not recognize the Disk.
The scsi address is set to 0. Booting from cd and installing a small system
on the drive works. But the boot rom did not recognize it yet.

Why?


Willi

-- 
-- 
Willi Burmeister,  Department of Computer Science,   Kiel University
Tel: +49 431 5604 98      S-Mail: Preusserstrasse 1-9, D 2300 Kiel 1
Fax: +49 431 5661 43      E-mail: wib@informatik.uni-kiel.dbp.de
From: sys_somogyi@sscvx1.ssc.gov
Newsgroups: comp.sys.hp
Subject: Re: Printing to a network printer
Date: 8 Oct 92 19:37:30 GMT
Article-I.D.: sscvx1.1992Oct8.133730.1
Organization: Superconducting Super Collider Laboratory

> Our system in a staqndalone with 3 terminakls and a console,
> and we are connected to our local ehternet.    There is a printer
> HPLJIII that is also directly hooked to the network
> at a specific IP address with a specific netwrok name.  
> 
> What I need to do is access this printer so that I can print outfiles to
> it from the system.  
> 
> SAM has a thing for hooking up remote printers, but it doesn't seem to 
> be able to work properly.  When it ask for remote system nme, I enter
> the network name of the printer, but after the system enables it
> all requests for printer to the remote do not go through, saying the queue has not 
> been enabled.  
> 
> Any suggestions as to what I am doing wrong or what to try and change?
> 

The remote system name it asks for is the name of another host for
the printer.  In other words, another workstation on which the printer
is connected, usually, or another system which can already print to
the printer.

You might also use the command lpstat -r to see if the scheduler is running.
From: pjd2@po.CWRU.Edu (Pedro J. Diaz)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.hp
Subject: HP 730 Specmark Numbers
Date: 15 Oct 1992 00:10:17 GMT
Organization: Case Western Reserve University, Cleveland, OH (USA)
Reply-To: pjd2@po.CWRU.Edu (Pedro J. Diaz)
NNTP-Posting-Host: thor.ins.cwru.edu


Does any one have a full breakdown of the latest HP 730 Specmark
results?????

I'd appreciate a copy.

Thanks

Pedro J. Diaz
CWRU - Department of Biomedical Engineering.

Xref: sparky comp.sys.hp:11578 comp.sys.mac.databases:1279 comp.databases.oracle:1813
From: antoine@Apple.COM (Antoine Duong)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.hp,comp.sys.mac.databases,comp.databases.oracle
Subject: Re: DAL server for HP 9000 ?
Date: 12 Oct 92 16:56:20 GMT
Organization: Apple Computer Inc., Cupertino, CA

cameron@donald.etdesg.trw.com (Chris Cameron x21639) writes:

>We are running Oracle on an HP 9000 machine and want to access the database
>using the SQL capabilities of Excel 4.0 on a Macintosh.  We have System 7 and
>the DAL extension on the Mac side; evidently we also need a DAL server on the
>HP side.  We have been told that a Unix version of this software exists.  Can
>anyone give us a product name and/or phone number?

>Please reply via e-mail.  Thank you.   

>Chris  

Hello Chris,
Apple has licensed the DAL technology to Pacer Software to develop DAL
servers for the Unix platforms.

The HP9000 server supports Oracle, Ingres, Informix and Sybase over 
TCP/IP and async connections.

Pacer software is at:
1900 West Park Drive , sutie 280
Westborough, MA 01581
(508) 898-3300

--ad      
Newsgroups: comp.sys.hp
From: peter@Schultz.ON.CA (Peter Roeser)
Subject: Creating an Update tape
Organization: S-S Technologies Inc.
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1 PL6]
Date: Thu, 08 Oct 1992 17:44:48 GMT

   We have created a product for the HP 9000 series 700 line that is
   a device driver and assorted add-ons.
   We would like to distribute this package in update tapes.
   Does anyone know of a script/tools to help put together
   a DDS DAT tape in this format?

-- 
Peter Roeser                 | peter@Schultz.ON.CA
S-S Technologies Inc.        | uunet.uu.net!watserv1.uwaterloo.ca!schultz!peter
88 Ardelt Avenue             | voice: (519) 571-1434 x227
Kitchener, ON Canada N2C 2C9 | FAX:   (519) 743-3610
From: chrisp@slc.com (Chris Pinkham)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.hp
Subject: Re: How can we get rid of HP VUE.
Date: 16 Oct 92 17:04:19 GMT
Article-I.D.: slc.1992Oct16.170419.19462
Distribution: na
Organization: Servio Corp, Beaverton Oregon, US

>If you don't want to modify /etc/inittab you can get the same effect
>by issuing the command "/etc/telinit 2" as root,  then exiting
>from VUE.  (I haven't tried this,  so will not gaurantee results).

I missed the original, but it's easier to just remove execute
permission from /usr/lib/X11/vue/etc/vuelogin. This will fire
up a getty on your console. If you want something else, take
a look at /etc/vuerc.

Chris
From: sam@hpuerca.atl.hp.com (steven michalove(site it))
Date: Thu, 8 Oct 1992 19:25:48 GMT
Subject: Re: How can we get rid of HP VUE.
Organization: the HP Response Center, Atlanta
Newsgroups: comp.sys.hp

Ok, I'm know expert in these matters, but I'll take a stab at it.  You did
not state if you are running diskless, or stand alone; I'll assume standalone.

Your answer to getting rid of vue, and using xdm or something else may lie in
the file /etc/inittab.  That's the way it works on the 400s models.

You will most likely have a line that reads:

vue:2:respawn:/usr/lib/X11/vue/etc/vuelogin -nodaemon  # HP-VUE invocation

    ^this is the run level (init 2)  You can comment this line out, or change
the run level to something else.  Add a new line with xdm, and your are ready
to go.  Again, I know this works on the 400s, give it a try on 700s!

Hope this helps, as a hint,... steven
=============================================================================
Steven Michalove, OTG                    		  
Atlanta Technology Center      Mail Stop RE-308      sam@i3125110.atl.hp.com

Newsgroups: comp.sys.hp
From: dekock@shannon.ee.wits.ac.za (Nick de Kock)
Subject: HP9000/310 as a text retrieval server for PCs??
Organization: Electrical Engineering, University of the Witwatersrand
Date:  8 Oct 92 14:29:23 GMT

Hi - First of all I am unfamiliar with the HP9000 series so please
forgive me if I ask any really dumb questions. I looked for an FAQ
list in vain.

I have been considering using a Unix box as a text retrieval server for
DOS/Windows stations on a Novell LAN. I have experimented with a product
called Topic with data and index files stored on a Novell fileserver. 
Because ofthe size of the files(300 MB each of ASCII data and index files) 
involved this approach is a non-starter. It seemed that a kind of client-server 
approach was a good idea. The text retrieval software would run locally 
on the Unix server and then multiple users would run remote sessions via 
some kind of terminal emulation.

I want to test this idea as cheaply as possible and I have access to
an 1988 vintage HP9000/310 with a 300MB(?) disk. First of all CAN it be 
done easily? 

What do I need to hook the HP to the Novell LAN? What software can 
I use for a terminal session on a PC under DOS/Windows (can I do that BTW?).

DO you think the 310 would be able to handle say 8 users running a disk
intensive application simultaneously (not much computation involved)?
Does anyone know of text retrieval software for the HP9000 (other than
Topic)?

Answers to any of these rather vague questions appreciated. Please reply
directly. If anyone wants a summary please mail me.
-- 
Nick de Kock, High Voltage Group            
Electrical Engineering, Wits University                 
Johannesburg, South Africa - dekock@shannon.ee.wits.ac.za
From: mjo@ef2007.efhd.ford.com (Mike O'Connor)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.hp
Subject: Re: Tin newsreader - HPUX port?
Date: 7 Oct 1992 15:27:02 -0400
Organization: Not an official spokesperson for Ford Motor Co.
Reply-To: "Mike O'Connor" <mjo@fmsrl7.srl.ford.com>
NNTP-Posting-Host: localhost.efhd.ford.com

In article <1992Oct6.215324.7858@unixland.natick.ma.us>
trw@unixland.natick.ma.us (Tim Weil) writes:

:As the Subject suggests, I'm looking for a 'tin' port to HPUX <8.0+>.
:The copy I'm currently using has only a 'sysvr4' make option which fails
:on the 'inews.c' module with some obscure 'undefined union' error (or
:something).

Future patchlevels of Tin 1.1 take care of lots of problems with HP-UX.
You posted from Tin 1.1 PL3 -- you may want to get PL6.

						...Mike

-- 
 Michael J. O'Connor           |  Internet:  mjo@fmsrl7.srl.ford.com
 Ford Motor Company, OPEO      |  UUCP:      ...!{backbone}!fmsrl7!mjo
 20000 Rotunda, Bldg. 1-3001   |  Phone:     +1 (313) 248-1260
 Dearborn, MI  48121           |  Fax:       +1 (313) 323-6277
From: stuart@TIVOLI.COM (Stuart Jarriel)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.hp
Subject: Re: vue mouse focus
Keywords: vue
Date: 8 Oct 92 20:27:41 GMT
Article-I.D.: tivoli.4885
Organization: Tivoli Systems, Inc

In article <1992Oct1.093347.2099@ugle.unit.no>, olafn@inbit.ibt.unit.no (Olaf F. Normann) writes:
|> Hello!
|> We have newly purchased a HP 720, and right now started the vue environment.
|> 
|> 
|>  How do we get window focus changed by mouse movement? The default mode is
|> that you have to click in the window you want to write in. 
|> 

For a SYSTEM-WIDE change (as opposed to a user-specific change)

edit

/usr/lib/X11/app-defaults/Vuewm

and uncomment the line:

!# Vuewm*keyboardFocusPolicy:           pointer
Newsgroups: comp.sys.hp
From: jek@Xenon.Stanford.EDU (James Kittock)
Subject: xfig & Installing X11R5 -- help please
Originator: jek@Xenon.Stanford.EDU
Organization: Computer Science Department, Stanford University.
Date: Thu, 15 Oct 1992 00:18:55 GMT

The background: I am working with a cluster of series 9000/300 HP
running HP-UX 7.0 which I just "inherited" and know basically nothing
about.

The goal: to get xfig up and running

The situation: I just downloaded the source for xfig from the
InterWorks site, and can't seem to figure out how to compile it.

When I run the executable included in the tarfile, it says
	/lib/dld.sl: cannot execute

When I try to compile using the given makefile, I get all kinds of
errors, probably at least partly due to the fact that X11R5 is not
installed on these machines (we are running X11R4).

So; Is it possible to get xfig up and running under X11R4?  If so,
does anyone have a compiled version I could have a copy of or
suggestions on how to build one?  If not, how much effort would
it be to install X11R5?

By the way, we plan to install HP-UX 8 sometime this winter.

Thanks very much,
--james
-- 
james kittock
Newsgroups: comp.sys.hp
From: c-wargaski@nwu.edu (Christopher J. Wargaski)
Subject: /etc/termcap for hp (on sun)
Originator: cjw@casbah.acns.nwu.edu
Reply-To: c-wargaski@nwu.edu (Christopher J. Wargaski)
Organization: Northwestern University, Evanston, Illinois, USA
Date: Thu, 8 Oct 1992 21:27:32 GMT


I am looking for an /etc/termcap entry for an HP Apollo 727 for our
Sun sparc server 4/670.  Unless there is a solution that someone knows
of for the following problem.

I fire up an xterm and login remotely to the Sun.  When I use emacs on
the sun, it barfs on the backspace key.  The sun does not recognize
this key board at all.  

The delete key does not help at all, it pops the screen menu up.
(Close, minimize, etc.)  This keyboard is one of the new style, that
is quite incompatable with other operating systems.

Any help would be appreciated.  

Thank you.

cjw

Christopher Wargaski
-- 
Christopher J. Wargaski 	<-or-> 	    Aspheric Artwork Sigh
		c-wargaski@nwu.edu; ACNS, DSS, RC
"Spoon-feeding in the long run teaches us nothing more but the shape of
the spoon"	--E. M. Forester
From: urban@krusty.jpl.nasa.gov (Michael Urban)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.hp
Subject: Re: hpterm survey
Date: 9 Oct 92 14:54:00 GMT
Reply-To: urban@krusty.jpl.nasa.gov ()
Organization: Jet Propulsion Laboratory, Pasadena, CA

In article <1992Oct07.085805.17029@cadlab.sublink.org> martelli@cadlab.sublink.org (Alex Martelli) writes:
>
>And you will lose half the functionality of xdb (which is powerful, but
>as hard to use and unintuitive as ANY program I've ever seen!) AND half
>the functionality of sam... the very existence of hpterm damages us by
>prompting other HP functions to tie-in their program's use to hpterm
>rather than learning to use terminfo once and for all!!!
>

Who knows?  Perhaps some day HP will provide
tools like SAM and XDB with a real Motif interface
(as well as providing a terminfo version for those 
embarassing times when X is not available).

Naaah.

	Mike Urban

	urban@cobra.jpl.nasa.gov
From: seymour@stein.u.washington.edu (Richard Seymour)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.hp
Subject: Re: Shared Libs on HP9000
Date: 9 Oct 92 21:53:05 GMT
Article-I.D.: u.1992Oct9.215305.2157
Organization: University of Washington, Seattle

In article <BvtHFA.F4C@fc.hp.com> marc@hpmonk.fc.hp.com writes:
  in response to these questions:
>: What are the advantages of  SHARED LIBRARIES?
>:  Smaller executables? Any change in performance?
   ...in my experience: YES (600%)  and  YES  (25% )...
>: Should I recompile xv, emacs, perl to take advantage of this?
..."try it and see"...
Marc's reply was:
>The intended advantage, the whole reason we did it, is smaller executables.
...
>There is a slight performance degradation in the nomral case due to the 
> overhead of dynamic loading, and the position-independent code in the 
> libraries.  It is usually insignificant - less than 0.5% difference in SPEC,

...well, maybe we're not "normal", but our initial test-case medium-big
 Fortran program went from a 146 seconds runtime to 104 seconds runtime by
 invoking the non-shared library  (Wl,-a,archive).  The executable grew
  from 40kb to 286kb.  Other tweaks with optimization brought us to 46 seconds.
 I posted a litany of these trials back in early March '92 
(machine: HP 9000/710, HP-UX v8.07)
--dick
Xref: sparky comp.sys.hp:11382 comp.sys.sun.misc:4551 comp.sys.sun.hardware:4835