From: khan@ces.cwru.edu (Mansoor Khan)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.pakistan
Subject: RE: Private Education in Pakistan
Date: 25 Dec 1992 20:20:46 GMT
Organization: Computer Engineering and Science, Case Western Reserve University
Distribution: world
NNTP-Posting-Host: king.ces.cwru.edu




>Mansoor bhai, as-Salaam ualaikum.
	Vaa-laikum alsalam. Am I older than you? Why are you calling me bhai:-)

>I agree 110% with everything you said about the benefits of private
>educational institutions of higher learning.  As you said, things
>are slowly getting done and institutions committed to excellence
>are being built.  But even these are a far cry from being anything
>close to world-class.  Thus, my insistence on generating more wealth
	Wealth is not every thing. Do you know that Case School of Engineering
	started in a house in Downtown Cleveland in 1881. Western Reserve
	Univ's humble campus started in Hudson, Ohio (26 miles out of Cleve) 
	in 1826. (at least, I know my alma mater's history).
        Check out the beginnings of other major universities
	in  USA. I think very very few of them were as lucky as Aga Khan U.
	and Hamdard U. So I hope 100 years later Aga Khan U. and Hamdard U.
	will be much better than 100 years old school in USA.
	Wealth should be distributed among people. Not concentrated  in the
	hands of few. And especially not in the hands of people like
	Zardari( LVQ), Bugti( LVQ), and Navaz Sharif( LVQ). These people
	have no class, no charity, and no value for education.
	

>in the country should be obvious.  Even if all funds are properly

	Ofcourse wealth's importance is obvious. But, not the way people
	like Mr. 10% and Mr. 90% are trying create it. 

>channelised, the economy as it now stands will not give us quality
>health care, living standards or educational institutions.  For
>example, the contents of the medical library here at Duke alone
>far exceed the combined contents of all the medical libraries
>in all the medical colleges of Pakistan.  There's no comparison,
 
The only colleges which can be compared with Duke etc. are King Edward
 and Dow Medical. Rest are all new. Yes, Dow Medical and K.E. should
have more books. But, why the people who have money have not donated any.
Check out the donation/funding of Duke. Check the alumni funding.
Case School Of Engineering Alumni Association is probably more strong than 
the University's president. Why, because paisa bolta hae! What have our
K.E. and Dow graduates done. They get free education at the expense of
Kissaan's and labor's effort. The money which could have been used for
providing shoes for a poor in chunno-Mia is spent on this guy at K.E.
These graduates, once M.B.B.S., either end up doing FRCS etc or
residency in USA. How come these guys do not donate any money to the
libraries at K.E. and Dow. 
I think all who have received professional education free of cost in Paksitan,
eg. from N.E.D., Dow, K.E., LMC etc should be required to serve pakistan
for 3-4 years or pay the money back to govt. if they run away from Pakistan.
Oh no, dont tell me there are no jobs. Since most of the admissions are 
quota based, people should be told to go work in their respective home towns.
there are enough jobs. Sure, money is not good. And yeah, not every one
can get job in Karachi or Lahore. If someone "used" Navabshah's or Jehlum's
quota, he/she should go back there to work.
People should stop stealing money from the Pakistani people in the form of
free education. 

>and its silly to even think there might be.  Even private funds
>cannot provide us with world-class institutions.  At best,
>private donations can *initiate* development, but depend on
>a wealthy social infrastructure to be *suatained*.  Take the
	Yes, healthy social infrastructure is needed. But you have
	suggested that whatever chore-bazari or bayimani sharif is
	doing, it should be allowed because wealth is being generated.
	Dude, haraam kaa paisaa is never spent on public's welfare.
	Plus what shareef and Shujaat (inn choro'n kay naam bhee buhut
	aalaa hotey hai'n eg. shareef, shujaa( brave), zardari( saab
	say beray lutairay aur naam zardari !)
	have done( one example, stealing money from Govt. Banks and
	more recently,  Cooperatives in Panjab), it does not build
	a heavy infrastructure. It destroys all the social values.
	We all know Gauhar Ayub( inn kambakhto'n kay naam dekhyay, 
	Gauhar! vah vah.  herkatai'n lofar, naam guahar!) 
	did all kind of crook stuff to make all those millions of ruppees
	in 1960's. Has he done any thing for his poor village.
	has he opened any shcool. has he donated a single penny to 
	any library. No way, he is too cheap for that kind of stuff.
	I am 100% sure he is going to be the next president of Pakistan.
	Pakistan's bad luck. We can not do much.
	
>case of the Aga Khan University.  His Highness Prince Karim Aga
>Khan put up US$300 million (!) to establish the school and hospital.
>Even so, it isn't world-class by Western standards.  But anyhow,
>the set-up cannot be indefinitely sustained by donations alone.
>Nobody, not even in the West, has that kind of money.  It needs
>to be sustained through students fees, hospital charges as well,
	I agree.


>alongwith private fund-raising.  A rich society is necessary for
				  ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Sure rich society. Not richer Defence society, P.E.C.H. Society, or Gulshans.
and for sure we do not need richer navaz nosharif( LVQ) or Pagara( LVQ).
Can you imagine a richer pagara donating money for starting
a school for hurs. No way.... Who is gonna kiss his ass.

>its perpetuation and to prevent the school's slide down the
>ubiquitous raod to mediocrity.
>
>Finally, I beleive the paucity of large-scale philanthropy in
>Pakistan has much to do with the late Zulfiqar Ali's "hatchet
	Not that I do not hate late Zulfi Bhutto for what he has
done to Pakistan, but he was no economist. It was his havaris like
Dr. Mubashir Hasan etc who formed his economic policies. And thus screwed
the whole country for decades. 

>job", to borrow Jawad's term.  Before this gentleman came to
>power, the Adamjees, the Dawoods, the Habibs had established
	Also not to forget Agha Khan foundation for having many schools
and colleges around Karachi( Agha Khan Univ. is theie biggest but not first
project), Ibrahim Ali Bhai Schools, Bavani College, Bahadur Yar Jang School,
Ship Owners College, Dehli College, and many many others.
But none of them was started by people like Navaz Sharif, Bhuttos, 
Zardari types, or Pagara or jatoi. They are all theives and should
not be supported in their money making( stealing) projects.

>quality schools and colleges in Karachi which have all gone
>down the toilet since nationalization in the early 1970's.
>With Mohtarma Benazir Bhutto still politically viable and
      ^^^^^^^^
	Saad, lafz-e-mohtarma kee tauheen( insult) naa keroe.
	She is no mohtarma. 


>refusing to reject her mentor's socialist mantra, is it any
>surprise that the industrialists are wary ?  Private donations
	I agree. But let me repeat one last time, do not expect
	any school or college from Navaz Sharif or Zardari
	types. They just dont have that kind of class.
	Anyone who has read an article by Sir Syed Ahmed Khan,
	I guess it was titled Kuttay, should know what I am talking about.
	No, I am not talking about Pitris Bukhari's article.


>continue to be channeled along routes generally considered
	Please tell us about these routes. 

>immune to governmental interference.  With political stability
>(and sanity), the old tradition will indeed resurface.
	Political stability will come if people get educated. But people
will not get mass education because we do not have political stability.
Catch-22. Last thing I want is Army person like Ayub Jahil or Zia liar.
I think we really need mini-revolution like in Iran or China. 
Get rid of top 1000 sons-of-bitches and bitches in Pakistan. OK, they
dont have to be killed. they can be sent to Kaalaa Paani( Indiman Island).
We can rent a place on Indiman and Nicobar islands from Indian Govt. :-)
>
>Best wishes,
>Saad.

Mansoor Khan
Cleveland


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