From: jj@alice.att.com (alice!jj)
Newsgroups: rec.audio
Subject: Re: Blind Listening
Date: 17 Apr 92 15:40:59 GMT
Organization: NJ State Home for Bewildered Terminals


Kurts>
>In rec.audio, chrisc@gold.gvg.tek.com (Chris Christensen) writes:
>
>>   This is total bull!  The musicians ARE very concerned with room sound
>>   and the quality of Timbre is their LIFE.  Where do you get off with
>>   these statements!  To state that a musician in an orchestra isn't a

>Oh, so from now on in order to tell how good a new jet is, we'll go to
>the real experts, the assemblers, not the test pilot.

Ahhh, the usual Kurt argument, where he's so far off base that there's
not even a body of fact collected to refute his stated position. Tell
you what, Kurt, if you think musicians are assemblers and nothing but,
why not just listen to synthesizers.  You can put 100 of them in a hall
with loudspeakers, if you'd like.  You should, after all, be able to
replace Artur with any flautist or percussionist, just like you could replace
any competant airplane mechanic with another.


more kurts>
>What was implied by the ridiculous original statement was that musicians
>know better than audiophiles about sound reproduction, and that the
>evidence here shows the musicians are more accurate at picking out
>better sound. That's bull.  If you believe that, then you need Consumer
>Reports as your guide.
And again, we see the presumption of absolute truth here.  Given the
absolutely compromised nature of the sound-field reproduction of the
best STEREO system in existance, all one can do is provide a good 
illusion that's good to THEM.  There IS NO SUCH THING AS THE
BEST SYSTEM.  All the diatribe here from people who like digital
lack of distortion or analog distortions (which is the absolute, provable
fact) should prove this.  Some people like the analog distortions,
and fine, that's what they like.  BUT THEY DON'T HAVE A LOCK ON THE
ABSOLUTE TRUTH ANY MORE THAN THE FELLOW A  FEW WEEKS AGO WHO CLAIMED
THAT SNR IS ALL YOU NEED TO KNOW.


(chris c, I THINK)>>
>>   The Audiophobes liked the Audiophillia and the musicians and others
>>   liked systems that, when measured, just happened to be flater in
>>   response.
Which goes to show you that we're all arguing preference, and nothing
more or less.

>Get Consumer Reports.  It's for you.
I see, if we dare to disagree with your stating your preference
as absolute truth, we're to be insulted with the worst possible
curse of mediocracy you can imagine.  Kurt, must you be so insistent
on your being the revealer of absolute truth?  What are you?
The audio prophet?

>>(musicians have)
>>   DIRECT COMPARISON in their favor.

>I believe you are wrong.  The musician almost ignores most of the things
>audiophiles do not, the musician's main concern being the performance.
>Read rec.music.classical and you will find this out.  
What you say here again proves the falsity of your claim of "better"
in the absolute sense.  (Yes, I'm also a bit concerned that Chris C
also uses "better" in an absolute sense, but I read his as meaning
"technically better" where you clearly claim absolutely better with
no chance of compromise.)  Musicians, who DO have the direct comparison 
in their favor, regardless of whether or not you wish to admit it,
CHOOSE TO LISTEN TO DIFFERENT CUES than you.  They have different
preferences, and regard different things as important.  You've just
proved your own incorrectness through your own words.


>From: labelle@intelhf.hf.intel.com (George La Belle)

>I second this! Musicians notoriously have "poor" stereo systems.

>I think the quality of sound is simply not noticed by them, for the
>most part - just like you can watch a good movie and get all of
>its meaning in black and white!

>	George

George, I see that you're now forcing your preferences on musicians.
They think something different is important.  You claim that they
don't notice good sound.  Why can't you just say that what they
prefer is something different than what you prefer?  If you call 
their systems "poor" you need to show that they are missing something
that they want.

Now, I will agree that SOME musicians I know of don't seem to
care much about recordings or recorded music.  Most of these
sort also say "nothing sounds like the real thing, why bother",
or "I'd rather go to a concert".  The rest seem to take some care 
in setting up reproduction equipment, but most still don't enjoy it
very much because it's "not real".  Given their ability to analyze
and implement complex sound fields, this isn't very surprising.
-- 
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