HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: akcs.toby@ddsw1.MCS.COM (Toby Schneiter)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Just please shoot me : )
Date: 25 Aug 92 22:00:04 CDT

Well, I do know a bit about Rochester MN since my lover is contemplating
applying to the AS/400 shop up there.  It is only a few miles outside of
Minneapolis/St.Paul which has a great gay community.  It also is a major
art/theatre/sport center and from what I understand from a woman I know
who lived there, it is much more "gay friendly" than other midwestern
towns outside of Chicago.

Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: cc0001@medtronic.COM (Christopher Carriero)
Subject: Re: Too straight looking to be gay???
Organization: Medtronic, Inc.
Date: Mon, 31 Aug 1992 22:52:49 GMT

In article <94868@bu.edu> kane@buast7.bu.edu (Hot Young Star) writes:
>Apparently during my holiday of the past few weeks, a virus invaded
>soc.motss:
>
>bobsarv@microsoft.com (Bob Sarver) spews:
>>I bet another masc. gay friend that none of the net queens [...]
>
>You know, the more I live as a pretty much openly gay man in this
>world, the more I realize that DIVISIVENESS is precisely what has
>gotten the world into its current state. So how is exacerbating
>this "masculine vs. nelly" thing going to help any?
>
>The incessant need to categorize is a sure sign of insecurity. True
>respect for other people means abandoning the naive assumption that
>everyone is made from the same mould, and those who differ from you
>must have gone astray. True respect for other people means accepting
>them for who they are, not who you want them to be.
>
>Revel in diversity. It's the stuff love is made of.
>

Beautifully said.  Thank you Brian.

--Chris



-- 
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Chris Carriero			cc0001@medtronic.com
Medtronic, Inc.			(612)574-6062
7000 Central Ave NE
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: bobsarv@microsoft.com (Bob Sarver)
Subject: Re: Too straight looking to be gay??? (was re: UNGAY GAY)
Date: 24 Aug 92 19:19:23 GMT
Organization: Microsoft Corp.



(nelson)
/bobsarv@microsoft.com (Bob Sarver) writes, with his usual fucked up
/posting software that has NO BUSINESS being on the net because it is
/not Usenet compliant:

nelson, do you have any comments of substance?  Or do you want to get
into evangelical text-editor wars as well?  


(me)
>3.  Then I said that there wasn't a nickel's worth of diff.
>    between the three of them and the real woman.  That's not a put-down;
>    it's a statement about attractiveness.


(nelson)
/so what you're actually saying is that you were trying to insult three
/people by saying you didn't think they were attractive. Only you
/cloaked it in this long misogynist spew, thereby cleverly hiding your
/true intent.


No cloaking at all.  I showed it to three people in the office before
I posted it.  Curious; none of them took it to be misogynistic; they
all understood quite clearly what I meant.

But then again, none of them had a chip on their shoulder or a politically
correct point they felt compelled to prove, either.  Funny how that changes 
your viewpoint, isn't it?  

I guess when you're a hammer, everything looks like a nail . . .




--
From: klotz@lclark.edu (Gretchen Klotz)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: The Last Oregon NCOD??
Date: 4 Sep 92 19:25:19 GMT
Article-I.D.: lclark.1992Sep4.192519.16895
Organization: Lewis & Clark College, Portland OR

In article <42427@ogicse.ogi.edu> markm@ogicse.ogi.edu (Mark Morrissey) writes:
>In article <2pmnvxd@lynx.unm.edu> gworrell@carina.unm.edu (Gayla M. Worrell) writes:
>>
>>Just for my own curiosity, if I donate, why do they need a statement as to my
>>profession, or my employers name and address?
>
>A simple note which says "My profession is computer programmer" has sufficed
>for me so far.  I also sign the statement.
>
>--mark

This doesn't *quite* answer Gayla's question.  Oregon election laws
require occupational disclosure from anyone (from anywhere) donating to
statewide campaigns/measures >=$100 and to local campaigns/measures >=$50.
(I called the elections office last week about this.)  Because Campaign
for a Hate Free Oregon is working on OR:9 statewide *and* various local
initiatives, they are asking for this disclosure on all donations >=$50. 
I send in monthly pledges; they have my occupation on file, so I don't
write it on my envelopes anymore (so lazy!).  They will contact you if you
leave this information off.  (I don't know *why* Oregon has this law, just
that it's why you have to provide this information.)

And to everyone from out-of-state who is donating anything to any
organization fighting OR:9 and CO:2, THANK YOU!!!  I know I'm stretched to
the limit financially, I'm tired of this stupid initiative, and I'm
getting burned out.  I started crying on my way home last night when I saw
the headline (USA Today or the Oregonian) about 35.7 million poor in the
US.  WHY DO WE HAVE TO WASTE OUR TIME ON THIS OR:9 BULLSHIT??? 

Pardon the outburst.  I'm very grateful for the support and ideas I've
seen in this newsgroup.  I don't know what will happen in November, I'm
not very good at waiting, and I'd rather be putting my energy towards
building something positive instead of fighting something negative.  Just
my constitution.

Blessed Be,

- Gretchen (needing a little humor in her day and a lot more peace, love
	    and equally-distributed food and shelter on the planet)
-- 
---------------------------------------------------------------------
Gretchen Klotz		      Computing Services
              klotz@lclark.edu			Lewis & Clark College
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: bobsarv@microsoft.com (Bob Sarver)
Subject: Re: Too straight looking to be gay??? (was re: UNGAY GAY)
Date: 31 Aug 92 21:10:23 GMT
Organization: Microsoft Corp.



> bobsarv@microsoft.com (Bob Sarver) writes:
>
>This is the model that I am asking we follow.  If we consider our 
>sexuality to be a private matter, then the various things we do related 
>to it should be private also (private==not up for public consumption 
>or gawking at on TV).


/(rjwill6)
/You're mistaken if you consider sexuality a private matter.
/Straight people make their sexuality public all the time,
/some more flamboyantly than others -- at the mall, on TV,
/in the movies, at the office, wherever they please.  Why
/would you have G/L/B people feel constrained to keep theirs
/private?


Um, this is not what I meant.  Your point is well-taken, and 
it is quite valid.

Public displays of affection, hand-holding, kissing, should be 
done without any feeling of shame or impropriety.  As several
folks have pointed out, such things are done by straights.
Gay couples should feel free to do this, and to not feel like
there are always "eyes" watching them all the time.
It's only fair, after all.  Anyone who suggests otherwise is 
guilty of a double standard.

What I am talking about, on the other hand, is the more exotic
things--fantasy material.  Leather harnesses, drag, etc.  There
are no public straight parallels to this (at least, damn few and far
between).  And when there are, such things are deemed inappropriate.

By way of example:  I walked into a movie theater awhile back
where a couple of teenagers (straight couple) were engaged in 
intercourse in the seats  in the theater.  Now, if I say something to 
them, am I being "anti-teen"?  No.  I have nothing against sex;
I have nothing against teen sex (as long as both parties are 
consentual).  I do believe, though, that some things are inappropriate
when done in public by MEMBERS OF ANY SEXUAL ORIENTATION.

Maybe this explains it a little better.
From: markm@ogicse.cse.ogi.edu (Mark Morrissey)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: The Last Oregon NCOD??
Date: 3 Sep 92 22:00:20 GMT
Article-I.D.: ogicse.42370
Distribution: world
Organization: Oregon Graduate Institute (formerly OGC), Beaverton, OR

The No on Hate PAC is coordinating the 1992 National Comming Out Day
celebration here in Portland.  One of the sub themes for this NCOD
is "Is this the last one?".

I attended last year's celebration at which there were 2500 people.  I
was surprised to learn that only 17 attended the year before that.  This
year, we are expecting over 5000.  The celebration will be in Pioneer
Courthouse Square.

Given that Measure 9 would forbid us to use public spaces (or have
access to police protection for special events), this could very well
be the last NCOD for Portland.  We may also have seen our last Pride
Day as well.  While we are confident that we can defeat the OCA minions,
we also want to be prepared for any eventuality.

That is why we are trying to make this the largest LGB event in Oregon's
history.  We strongly encourage anyone who can make it to Portland to
help us to celebrate to do so.  This is the last major event before the
elections and we want to send a strong political message to the voters.

Due to other activities already scheduled for October 11th, the
Portland NCOD celebration will be on Friday, October 9th beginning at
5:00pm.  In addition, we will be doing voter registration and looking
for volunteers for our phone banks and the Get Out The Vote effort.  To
publicize this event, NOH will be placing ads in several regional
papers as well as several national LGB publications.  If you would like
to help NOH in this effort, please send your tax deductible
contribution to

	Nooon Hate PAC
	P.O. Box 2725
	Portland, OR 97208

Note that for donations of $50 or more, you must include a statement as
to your profession *or* a statement listing your employer and employer's
address.  Only the first $50 is deductible on US taxes.

--mark
--
Mark Morrissey           One Hatred to rule them all.  One Hatred to find them.
markm@cse.ogi.edu        One Hatred to bring them all and in the darkness bind
                         them.  In the land of Bigotry where the Shadows lie.

Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: anderson@macc.wisc.edu (Jess Anderson)
Subject: Re: Tastes and prejudices (was: Re: Too straight looking)
Organization: Madison Academic Computing Center, UW-Madison
Date: Tue, 1 Sep 92 19:49:09 GMT


In article <BtwqrD.Gt3@agora.rain.com> rickc@agora.rain.com
(Rick Coates) writes:

me:

>>Prejudice is forming a class judgment on the basis of
>>instances.  You can dislike Joe, who did you dirt on some
>>occasion, but it's prejudice for you to use Joe's incidental
>>nelliness as the basis for being "not especially fond of
>>'nelly' behavior." Even if there are 10 or 10,000 Joes, even
>>if *every* nelly person you ever met was a Joe clone.

>Good definition.  Also, it includes deciding a priori one's
>response on the basis of a single or limited criterion.

Yes, a very good point, the judgment in front of the actual
experience being judged.  A further factor is generalizing a
justifiable view and inappropriately validating the
generalization.  My example about (incidentally nelly)
vain Joe is the sort of thing I mean here.

>>Probably 90% of
>>statements of the form "I don't like <x>" express
>>prejudices, rather than tastes.  

>Could you provide a similar definition for taste, Jess?

Only fairly weakly, I think.  It's a value statement about
an instance and _a posteriori_.  Such classes as may exist
are far more likely *not* to exhibit the kind of variability
that human beings do, so may for these purposes be thought
of as a collection of instances, for example: chrome and
glass furniture seems too hard and cool for my tastes, or
something like that.  But I think connoisseurship enters
into taste, the _a posteriori_ ingredient; you can't prefer
Louis XVI to Louis XIV (furnishings, not kings) unless you
know what you're talking about.

>>And "I don't like <x>" isn't going to cut it in the
>>overwhelming majority of cases.

>I not so sure about "overwhelming majority", except in
>reference to people.

I didn't make it explicit, but I was referring to people.
I think in a typical case, "I don't like" is a phrase
calculated to prevent experience of the thing referred to,
a conceptual wall designed to protect or isolate a person
within the perimeter of known (and usually controllable)
universes.  Naturally, exceptions to this abound.

Irrespective of the more exact measures (that's *so* hard to
get down to brass tacks about, anyway), my further point is
that very commonly merely asking the question of ourselves,
"Is this taste or prejudice on my part?" is a productive
step in self-discovery and social interaction.

<> Great perils have this beauty, that they bring to light the
<> fraternity of strangers. -- Victor Hugo
-- 
Jess Anderson <> Madison Academic Computing Center <> University of Wisconsin
Internet: anderson@macc.wisc.edu <-best, UUCP:{}!uwvax!macc.wisc.edu!anderson
NeXTmail w/attachments: anderson@yak.macc.wisc.edu  Bitnet: anderson@wiscmacc
Room 3130 <> 1210 West Dayton Street / Madison WI 53706 <> Phone 608/262-5888
From: drogers@riacs.edu (David Christopher Rogers)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: RNC: Buchanan's speech
Date: 26 Aug 92 18:30:58 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: RIACS, NASA Ames Research Center, Moffett Field, CA
Originator: drogers@solstice.riacs.edu

Pat Buchanan:
    >> 	"Those Democrats, a bunch of far-left radical liberals masquerading
    >> 	as moderates and centerists, were engaged in the most blatant example
    >> 	of [political] cross-dressing in history"

Matthew responds:
    Message-ID: <mcmelmon-200892093705@mcmelmon.apple.com> 
    From: mcmelmon@aruba.apple.com (Matthew Melmon) 

    >I know Buchanan is a rabid demagogue, but I confess to roaring with
    >laughter over this one [...].
    >The excerpt is easily the best sound-bite in the history of politics. 

Could I ask why you thought this phrase was funny, or the "best
sound bite"?  What made it funny to you?  What do you think makes a good
sound-bite?

David Christopher Rogers
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: fjvwing@cs.vu.nl (FJ!!)
Subject: Re: Missing the heartbeat
Organization: Fac. Wiskunde & Informatica, VU, Amsterdam
Date: Wed, 2 Sep 1992 14:40:51 GMT

anderson@macc.wisc.edu (Jess Anderson) writes:
:Because I don't know that I'm capable any longer of the kind
:of honesty -- and was it courage, compulsion, daring, or
:maybe foolhardiness? 

It was need.						FJ!!

Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: anderson@macc.wisc.edu (Jess Anderson)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: Audience for Sargon Follies (was Re: B.S. forms a synapse)
Date: 23 Aug 92 21:56:05 GMT
Organization: Madison Academic Computing Center, UW-Madison


In article <1992Aug23.181427.29580@macc.wisc.edu>
anderson@macc.wisc.edu (Jess Anderson) writes:

One typo that I must fix (I leave the others), and
a slight softening of one point:

>For whatever reasons, Sargon himself is stuck, so entrenched
>behind the fortress wall of what he styles as thought that
>it's very likely anything short of a complete breakdown
          ^un
>would liberate him.  One should at least show some
>compassion for anyone whose situation is *that* desperate.

But he may yet wake up, and without a breakdown of *all* of
his personality, just of the barricades he's erected between
himself and the world to render it more manageable within
his limited value scheme.

<> I rather like not wanting to refer to "doctors" and "*women*
<> doctors".  I try to avoid allowing any variable to pretend
<> it is the ground of being.
<> -- Ailsa Murphy (io81409@maine.maine.edu)
-- 
Jess Anderson <> Madison Academic Computing Center <> University of Wisconsin
Internet: anderson@macc.wisc.edu <-best, UUCP:{}!uwvax!macc.wisc.edu!anderson
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Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: anderson@macc.wisc.edu (Jess Anderson)
Subject: Karmic Bobbie
Organization: Madison Academic Computing Center, UW-Madison
Date: Fri, 28 Aug 92 12:17:49 GMT


In article <1992Aug28.014554.24897@microsoft.com>
bobsarv@microsoft.com (Bob Sarver) writes:

>You are so self-deluded about your sanctity and
>righteousness that you have shut off any external corrective
>input which might put you back in touch with reality.  I
>hope to be around to see the end result of your attitude
>come back home to roost with you.  Seeing karma in action is
>very satisfying.

Hold that thought.  While looking in a mirror.

<> So you other muffins, come out and play in our dangerous
<> paradise and win your own scars and laugh your own laughter.
<> -- Ryerson Scwhark (ry@cbnewsl.cb.att.com)
-- 
Jess Anderson <> Madison Academic Computing Center <> University of Wisconsin
Internet: anderson@macc.wisc.edu <-best, UUCP:{}!uwvax!macc.wisc.edu!anderson
NeXTmail w/attachments: anderson@yak.macc.wisc.edu  Bitnet: anderson@wiscmacc
Room 3130 <> 1210 West Dayton Street / Madison WI 53706 <> Phone 608/262-5888
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: anderson@macc.wisc.edu (Jess Anderson)
Subject: Re: Re: Re: Too straight looking
Organization: Madison Academic Computing Center, UW-Madison
Date: Tue, 1 Sep 92 07:18:10 GMT


In article <65036@cup.portal.com> Minotaur@cup.portal.com
(Frank - Swilling) writes:

>When someone thinks so little of you as to abuse your name,
>they're telling you that you're nothing, worthless.

Which you are free not to accept, a course I would urge
upon anyone who thinks they're being abused, namewise.
Our somethingness, our worth, these are things no one can
take away from us, other than by prolonged terror.  As
you say ...

>And of course many of us faggots and dykes know exactly
>what that feels like, which is why I hate to see us use the
>weapons of hate against each other.

... aspects of that terror are known to some of us.  But I
think do ourselves (not to mention others) a signal
disservice by conflating the rough-and-tumble of what goes
on here with hatred.  For one thing, it devalues and
diminishes our understanding of hatred, which is something
very real in our lives, even when we are not experiencing it
directly and personally.

Contempt here is strictly rhetorical, however passionately
we may also *feel* about what we say.  Hatred has very little
to do with that, only the broadest, vaguest similarity with
it.  Hatred means killing and maiming innocent people.  Our
squabbles here, indeed, though there are notable exceptions
(Cramer is one, Sarver is not, in my book) have nothing in
common with hatred.  Rather, despite all our difference, this
strengthens us, while hatred would seek to destroy us.

>Jess is usually the last to quit playing with a verbal toy.

Or any other toy, I might add.  Play is essential, I think,
to mental well-being.  Caring about myself as I do, I
indulge in it at every opportunity.  Among other virtues,
it keep us grounded in everyday reality, so that when it's
time to be serious, we're well placed to do so.

>That he did, and has resumed calling Bob Sarver by his
>rightful name, even though he loathes him every bit as much
>as before, is surely a sign from God that there are better
>games to be played.

"Sign from God" is certainly overdoing it. :-)

And "better" might be only "different," though that remains
to be seen.

<> Competitions are for horses, not artists.
<> -- Bela Bartok
-- 
Jess Anderson <> Madison Academic Computing Center <> University of Wisconsin
Internet: anderson@macc.wisc.edu <-best, UUCP:{}!uwvax!macc.wisc.edu!anderson
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Room 3130 <> 1210 West Dayton Street / Madison WI 53706 <> Phone 608/262-5888
From: sdonahue@pbs.org (Susan Donahue (10,000 Maniacs minus 1))
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: >>Day of protest against hate 92<<
Date: 26 Aug 92 09:55:47 EDT
Organization: PBS:Public Broadcasting Service, Alexandria, VA

> 
>>How about Saturday, 10 Oct?  That puts it right between Columbus Day
>>and National Coming-Out Day.
> 
> 	Hmmmm... the idea of a gazillion queer protesting the day
> that I turn 30...  The symbolism is quite striking doncha think?
> 
> 
> 	Seriously though...
> 	I think the idea for this sort of protest is to make
> it look as much of a "grass roots" thing more than "just another
> militant radical group" thing.  (That isn't meant to say that such
> groups don't contribute a LOT to the cause, just that different venues
> and different ways of expressing our issues moew clearly show our
> broader base, from QN to GLAAD to the South_Dubuque_Gay_and_Lesbian_Taxidermy
> Club.)
> 
> 	Besides it would be a very irritating thing I think for the mdeia
> to come to the realization that there were 100+ demonstrations all
> on the same day made up not only of gay and lesbians, but gays,
> lesbians, bisexuals, supportive straight people, singles, families, 
> couples, triples, anti-hate religious groups, etc. all united against
> bigotry and hate.
> 
	Please contact your local NAMES project people....The Quilt will be
in Washington DC that weekend....and there will undoubtedly be local events
planned around the National Quilt and NCO Day.  It might be a good idea to 
see what could be coordinated- it could hurt "the cause" by over-appealing 
to the media for particular events. 
> BBC
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: jcf@world.std.com (Joseph C Fineman)
Subject: Re: "fuck"
Organization: The World Public Access UNIX, Brookline, MA
Date: Tue, 1 Sep 1992 02:19:53 GMT

richard@Apple.COM (a flying squirrel) writes:

>The Joel Project: 

>>the conjugation of the construction ``to fuck''.  It's a serious linguistic
>> [... ]
>>Any word having to do with excretion or intercourse seems to double as a swear
>> [... ]

>I cannot remember the origin of this (it may have been my friend Gary), but
>a funny and accurate (at least for me) observation was made: when swearing,
>"shit" is used for mental pain, whereas "fuck" is used for physical pain.

I think I use "shit" for mental & "ouch" for physical pain.

A long time ago I saw a cartoon strip in which a troll is sitting at a desk.
The phone rings; he picks it up & says, in successive frames, "Shit, yes!" &
"Fuck, no!".  Then he hangs up.  This suggests that in some dialects shit is
positive & fuck negative.  It does sound a little odd to me if I try it the
other way around.

>a flying squirrel is: richard@apple.com  Apple Computer Inc.

>i'm your girl            friend
>i'm your squirrel        friend
>i'm your round the world friend

>cruising: vidi, vici, veni.

That's been around for a while:

There was once an old man of great fame
Who, when asked how he did with a dame,
  Said, "In order to please her,
  I reversed Julius Caesar,..."

No way to censor out the heterosexuality without ruining the rhymes.
From: randyc@autodesk.com (Randy Clark)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: Prediction of the Republican National Convention
Date: 27 Aug 92 17:26:38 GMT
Organization: Autodesk, Inc., Sausalito, CA


In article <2a99284e@ThreeL.co.uk> jf@threel.co.uk (John Fisher) writes:
>
>My only hope for the Republican Convention was that George
>Bush would throw up during his acceptance speech. 

	That's OK.  I did.
>
>Cruel, cruel, I know, I know.  But *great* television...

	Cruel?  
	Televising Son of Nurnberg last week was cruel
	enough.

	Not as cruel, of course, as having these goons in office.
>
>--John

	-R


--
There is a sad gaiety in our love, and though we have more wit
than Sunday lovers by the water's edge, our wit attracts misfortune.
							-- Genet
Randy Clark			{}!autodesk.com!randyc
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: buckmr@vccsouth21.its.rpi.edu (Ron Buckmire)
Subject: Re: OCA update: voter's pamphlet
Date: Wed, 2 Sep 1992 16:39:59 GMT

markm@ogicse.cse.ogi.edu (Mark Morrissey) writes:



>Well, this last Tuesday was the deadline for submitting arguments about
>measures.  Word is that the OCA submitted 11 arguments for (they claimed
>that they had 25, but refrained from submitting too much).  The arguments
>against Measure 9 totaled to over 40.  You will be happy to know that
>the pdx-motss group banded together and submitted two signed arguments
>against Measure 9 (a possible new meaning to 'coming out' :-).
So do all the submitted arguments get included in the voter's guide?
[She with the most gets the most in?]

-- 
RON BUCKMIRE, 11 Colvin Circle, Troy, NY 12180-3735.  ``D.C. in 93!''
vox:(518)-276-8910 fax:(518)-276-6920 buckmr@rpi.edu buckmr@rpitsmts.bitnet
``Racist, sexist, anti-gay! Operation Rescue GO AWAY!'' --heard in Buffalo.
Newsgroups: soc.motss