HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.3 PL11]
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.seds-l
Date:         Sat, 7 Nov 1992 12:57:15 PST
From:         "(Jeffrey Alan Foust)" <jafoust@CCO.CALTECH.EDU>
Subject:      Re: IDMs: Why Undertake Them?
              "alweigel@athena.mit.edu" at Nov 7, 92 3:06 pm

Lisa writes:
> Since these "IDM"'s won't have any voting rights, why don't
> we call 'em as they really are?  SEDS NOVA SUBSCRIPTIONS!

An IDM is more than just a subscription to the NOVA.  Se my earlier post on
the benefits of IDMs at various letters.  For SEDS chapter members, it is
essentially a membership, but these people are already involved with SEDS, so
the purpose of the membership is to keep them informed about what is going on
in SEDS.  For students who don't have a SEDS chapter, the IDM provides them
with a NOVA and valuable information about starting a SEDS chapter.  For
non-students, the IDM keeps them informed about SEDS and gently nudges them
to donate additional money to SEDS (also, they may also donate money to a
local SEDS chapter/regional organization, based on what they read about the
chapter's activities in the NOVA.  IDMs help more than just the national
organization.)

> No voting rights = no membership in an organization.

I've been a member of the Planetary Society since '87, and I don't recall
ever receiving a ballot for an election within the organization... (though
I have received plenty of 'questionnaires' that also ask for donations... :-)


An individual membership by any other name would still be as controversial...

Ad astra per ardua,
Jeff
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.seds-l
From: acb20@cus.cam.ac.uk (A.C. Baker)
Subject: Re: Should Goldin stay?
Summary: The US space programme under Clinton
Keywords: Clinton
Organization: U of Cambridge, England
Date: Fri, 13 Nov 1992 15:00:02 GMT

"(John A. Wright)" <wrightj@CHESHIRE.OXY.EDU> writes:

>Should Goldin stay in the Clinton Administration?  He's trying (and tried)
>to be apolitical, but he did show up at the Republican National Convention
>as well as cut Gore's speech at Marshal Space Flight Center because
>is was "too political".  On Nov 3rd he appointed 2-3 new people to high post
>(posts) in the agency.  It seems like he wants to stay...

As a non-American, I'd like to hear some opinions from those of you who 
were foollowing the election campaign, and are now listening out for the
signals President-elect Clinton is making. What is going to happen to space
in particular and science in general in the next 4 (8?) years?

I see in `Science' this week that VP-e Gore is going to be put in charge
of science in the US. What effect might this have?

As for Goldin, from what I have heard he might be worth keeping - but is 
this course of action politically acceptable/likely?

Anyhow, whilst I am here trying to stir up the life of SEDS-L (too 
much administrivia drives a body mad!!!!), can I also ask: can anyone point me
to an online version of the SEDS Chapter Starter pack please?

Have fun, y'all!

Amanda Baker
Cambridge University Space Society (member)

Newsgroups: bit.listserv.seds-l
From: lnewby@lacerta.unm.edu (Lew Newby CIRT)
Subject: Re:      re: ftp site
Date: Tue, 10 Nov 92 20:24:01 GMT
Organization: University of New Mexico, Albuquerque

In article <199211092233.AA15809@spot.Colorado.EDU>,         Richard Johnson <johnsonr@SPOT.COLORADO.EDU> writes:
> | There is a SEDS ftp site at hoshi.colorado.edu  run by Richard Johnson.
> | If you are having problems with space, maybe you can talk to him about using
> | the space there for the old logs.
> 
This is only a weak suggestio n at this time due to some internals here but pioneer.unm.edu is the machine that the SEDS-UNM SPIF project is based on and there is available disk space at this time. 

> I don't have room to keep the logs here.  hoshi currently has only 9% of
> its users disk free.  I gotta keep those 26Mb for our local folks.  The
> weekly fluctuation in usage on hoshi is much bigger than what we now have
> left.  Sorry.

I can comfortably say we have some disk space to spare it would all depend on the size of these logs and how long they would be kept for.

SEDS optical drive or something. ;)

Now that's an idea we could use also. :)
> 
> | David Kalman
> 
> Richard


************************************************************************
| Lew Newby                         Falkor                             |
|  lnewby@vesta.unm.edu             The Luck Dragon                    |
|  The bringer of fun; especailly when I leave myself logged in!       |
|  What ever it may be don't blame me I have no control over it.       |
************************************************************************
From: houts@PSS.FIT.EDU (Amy Marie Houts)
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.seds-l
Subject: SEDS birthdays
Date: 12 Nov 92 19:35:40 GMT
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU

Hi again.  I haven't been doing so well with wishing everyone
happy birthday, so I guess now's as good a time to start as
any.  Once we get a general SEDS membership directory it will
make it so much easier to embarrass people over SEDS-L...

Anyway, I'd like to start a birthday directory, if nothing else,
so please send me mail telling me your birthday at:

houts@pss.fit.edu

Today's victim:  David Bush of University of South Florida SEDS

HAPPY BIRTHDAY DAVE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
WE LOVE YOU!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
GO SEDS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
GO DAVE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
(so, just how old ARE you, Dave?) :^)

Please send your birthday messages to Dave at:

bush@sunstroke.ec.usf.edu

If nothing else, tell him you feel sorry for him for having
friends like me!

Later guys...

Ad Astra Per SEDS People,

Amy Houts :^)
GO SEDS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.seds-l
Date:         Thu, 5 Nov 1992 19:37:18 PST
From:         Deborah Elaine Smith <desmith@JARTHUR.CLAREMONT.EDU>
Subject:      SEDS ART CONTEST!

SPACE ART! SPACE ART! SPACE ART! SPACE ART! SPACE ART! SPACE ART! SPACE ART!


 (Adriane Fleming, Claremont SEDS Vice-President is the Space Art Project
Manager.  She is coordinating a space art exhibition for the Claremont
Colleges will help coordinate a regional and eventually international
SEDS art contest.  The following is an article by Adriane)

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
                   International Space Art Exhibition

	Hello fellow SEDS people of America!  We the people of the SEDS
chapter in Claremont have decided that a Space Art Exhibition would be totally
cool, so we would like your support with the following:
	The first phase of our exhibition is on a local level.  Each chapter
should have a local art exhibition that displays the talents of your
individual college.  The exhibition is open to any student on your campus that
wants to enter a drawing, painting, watercolor, or use any other medium to
represent any space related subject; such as planets, stars, aliens, spacecraft,
or views of other worlds.
	Phase two is to enter these local works of art in a regional space art
exhibition.  This way students from different chapters can mingle with each otr
 and discuss their artistic techniques.
	Finally, phase three will be to choose winners from the conference in August.
 Currenty we are working on a prize for the national winner, which could
be a scholarship to attend Space Academy in Huntsville, Alabama.  Also, we are
trying to get former astronaut Alan Bean to display some of his critically
acclaimed space art paintings at the national conference.
	We really need everyone's help to make this project a success, so
good luck and happy painting!



The proposed dates for the Sothern California chapters are as follows:
 January 29, 1993 ----- local exhibition
 February 12-13 for the regional exhibition
 August ? ---- for the international exhibition to be held at the SEDS
 international confrence
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Each region should act accordingly as to when each exhibition will be held.
Any chapters interested in hosting a space art exhibition, please contact



     Adriane Fleming
     Claremont SEDS Vice-President
     Creative Arts Committee Chair
     AFleming@Scripps.Claremont.Edu.
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.seds-l
Date:         Sat, 7 Nov 1992 15:06:35 EST
From:         alweigel@ATHENA.MIT.EDU
Subject:      Re: IDMs: Why Undertake Them?
              07 Nov 92 00:58:26 -0800. <9211070901.AA02964@Athena.MIT.EDU>

Jeff writes:

>IDMs won't have any voting rights
>of any kind outside of their own SEDS chapters,
>if they are a members of one.

Aside from how confusing that might seem to be to someone who
has not been actively participating in this IDM discussion,
it really brings this whole topic to a head.

Since these "IDM"'s won't have any voting rights, why don't
we call 'em as they really are?  SEDS NOVA SUBSCRIPTIONS!
No voting rights = no membership in an organization.
Then we'd have this whole thing settled as to who administrates
this thing.  Since it is a NOVA subscription, let whoever is handling
the NOVA at the time take care of pushing more subscriptions to it.

And if we called them NOVA subscriptions, we'd still give the
people we are calling IDM's the same benefit - a bimonthly newsletter
about student space stuff.

Think about it folks.  Who are we kidding?  It can only be ourselves.

Ad Astra!  Lisa Weigel
           US  Co-Chairman
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.seds-l
Date:         Fri, 6 Nov 1992 23:05:18 EST
From:         alweigel@ATHENA.MIT.EDU
Subject:      More on IDMs

I post this in a different message because it contains a different point.

One has to look closely at examples of other organizations that have a program
similar to what we would call "IDMs".  A couple of examples are The Planetary
Society (TPS), and the National Space Society (NSS).  It should be remembered
that both these organizatoins have people on our Advisory Board, and that
both those people warned us against some of the hazards of having Individual
Members.  They cautioned us that it would take a dedicated staff person to
accomplish this.  That means one person working 8 hours a day, 5 days a week.
Can any one person in SEDS take this on?  Certainly not.  Would we want several
people in SEDS to take this on?  That would mean that other activities for
SEDS would suffer for them (and for us).

One thing that has been stated as a reason for having IDMs is to provide us with
a database to use of people who might someday start chapters.  This idea has no
founding, and contradicts what other organizations have found in this area.

Let's look at the NSS - they are the closest oragnization in basic structure
to us with the proposed IDM thing.  The NSS has chapters, and individual
members.  Their track record with calling up their individual members and
pleading with them to start chapters has been less than glorious.  They have
a poor success rate.  What they have found is that their individual members are
quite content to sit around and just receive a magazine.  The Individual members
want to do no extra work.  And if you look into the NSS membership statistics
more, you'll find that a vast majority of members of a newly-formed NSS chapter
were not previously individual members.  Well, I think that pretty much refutes
the above claim that is made by many concerning how beneficial IDMs will be to
SEDS.

Ad Astra!  Lisa Weigel
           US Co-Chairman

*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*
"A small group of motivated people will get more done that a huge crowd
of inactive people ever will.  And I'll take the small group any day."
*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU
X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.3 PL11]
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.seds-l
Date:         Thu, 12 Nov 1992 00:11:50 PST
From:         "(Jeffrey Alan Foust)" <jafoust@CCO.CALTECH.EDU>
Subject:      Updated t-con agenda

	SEDS-L is so quiet, I just had to put something on...

	Updated T-con Agenda

	1) Treasury status report
	2) Activity reports from board members
	3) Board election discussion
	4) SEDS-USA'93 report
	5) Constitutional changes / by-law discussion
	6) Reimbursement policy discussion
	7) Board of advisors discussion

	This agenda is somewhat long, so I've tried to place the items
in the agenda in some sort of order by importance (with the length of the
report weighing into the ordering as well - treasury reports don't take long
to give...).  We'll try to keep the t-con to one hour in length - please
cooperate by showing up on time (12 noon PST, 3pm EST) and by letting business
flow with a minimum of interruption (after the t-con those who want to stick
around can exchange snide remarks :-).  Suggestions for additional items are
also welcome, but not guaranteed time at this t-con, given the length of the
agenda above.

Ad astra,

Jeff
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.seds-l
Date:         Mon, 9 Nov 1992 20:05:13 PST
From:         "(Elizabeth Duxbury)" <eduxbury@CCO.CALTECH.EDU>
Subject:      moving right along...:)

Hi all,

Wow, that vote was fun - wanna try another? =)

When are we going to vote/decide and codify a reimbursement policy and
those 2-3 bylaws?

BTW, when is the next tcon?

John
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Newsgroups: bit.listserv.seds-l
Date:         Sat, 7 Nov 1992 09:33:46 -0700
From:         Richard Johnson <johnsonr@SPOT.COLORADO.EDU>
Subject:      Re: more IDMs...
              "SEDS-L%TAMVM1.BITNET@vaxf.Colorado.EDU" at Nov 6, 92 10:25 pm

| I think not.  IDM - reach more students, generate some money - those
| are the benefits...and we have suckers here ready to do the work.

Wait a minute.  These 'benefits' keep changing.  A while ago, John was
trumpeting how IDMs will give us a contact database for people who we
can stick together to make SEDS chapters.  Now it's not a benefit.  Maybe
Lisa had a point. ;)

John, how about writing things up in a definitive plan so we can all
evaluate it at once?  If you don't want to, then at least explain why
doing so is a bad idea (and stay off the !!!s ;).  Saying you've already
explained everything isn't good enough...

| John


Richard

--
Loudyellnet: Richard Johnson | Sneakernet: ECOT6-29 or ECNT1-6, CU Boulder
Phonenet: +1 303.492.0590    | Internet: johnsonr@Colorado.EDU
PGP 2.0 public key available on request
Speaker to avalanche dragons.   Do you really think they listen?
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Newsgroups: bit.listserv.seds-l
Date:         Tue, 10 Nov 1992 10:17:11 PST
From:         "(Jeffrey Alan Foust)" <jafoust@CCO.CALTECH.EDU>
Subject:      Re: nova....
              "SEDS-L%TAMVM1.BITNET@vm.usc.edu" at Nov 10, 92 8:12 am

Doug asks:
> Which address did you mail it to?
> We've been checking both........

I mailed it to the chapter address given in Dave Kalman's chapter list
for UAH SEDS.  It seemed to be as good an address as any...

> John, you better get used to me goetting on your back about this because we
>  can't afford any delays in the nove since we will screw SEDS up if the issues
>  don't come out on time......

Of course, it's vital the NOVA be produced on time, and also that it be copied
and mailed on time (regardless of whether or not an IDM program is in place).
As such, polite reminders about deadlines (with regards to articles, mailing,
etc.) should be expected.  All sides, though, should exercise appropriate tact
when giving out these reminders. :-)

Ad astra,

Jeff
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.seds-l
Date:         Fri, 6 Nov 1992 22:05:32 PST
From:         "(John A. Wright)" <wrightj@CHESHIRE.OXY.EDU>
Subject:      Re: Richard

about the ignoring thing - see the post Re: irwin :)
(I meant to put a smilie after the ignoring part, but I pressed return before
I could...sorry for the confusion...

>What about the target market?

Students, NSS/AIAA/TPS/etc people who want to support SEDS, alumni....

>What about
perceived (and as Dave pointed out, unreal) conflict with SEDS
chapter membership?

Chapters will have the same status.  You get a discount on ID membersh
ip if you're a chapter member - incentive to create and be a part of a
chapter.\

>What about your proposed management structure
(roles, responsibilities, titles)?

For now Jeff and I will handle getting the NOVAs out, putting the money
in the bank, and maintaining the database of members.

JOhn
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.seds-l
Date:         Fri, 6 Nov 1992 22:25:44 PST
From:         "(John A. Wright)" <wrightj@CHESHIRE.OXY.EDU>
Subject:      more IDMs...

>One thing that has been stated as a reason for having IDMs is to provide us
 with
a database to use of people who might someday start chapters.  This idea has no
founding, and contradicts what other organizations have found in this area.

Huh?  Don't you think it would be a good thing if we found someone at
Ohio State who wants to found a chapter and then we put him in contact
with people who are already interested in SEDS because they're IDMs?
That's the idea, I think it might work.

>Their track record with calling up their individual members and
pleading with them to start chapters has been less than glorious.

NSS and SEDS are very different.  Starting a college club is far easier
than starting a community chapter (and a lot less out of the ordinary)

Again, IDM's are to reach more students and get a constant flow of
money into the organization - nothing else.  The fringe benefits
(like starting more chapters) might work, it might not - but that's
not the main thing we're trying to do.

>What they have found is that their individual members are
quite content to sit around and just receive a magazine.  The Individual members
want to do no extra work.

Fine, let them send us money and recognize our name - I'm happy with that.

>Well, I think that pretty much refutes
the above claim that is made by many concerning how beneficial IDMs will be to
SEDS.

I think not.  IDM - reach more students, generate some money - those
are the benefits...and we have suckers here ready to do the work.

John
From: wingo%7977.span@FEDEX.MSFC.NASA.GOV
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.seds-l
Subject: Lillian Webb
Date: 11 Nov 92 13:58:53 GMT
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU
X-Delivery-Notice:  SMTP MAIL FROM does not correspond to sender.
X-ST-Vmsmail-To: FEDEX::"seds-l@tamvm1.tamu.edu"

I am pleased to announce that Mrs. Webb is home from the hospital and
recovering. I hope that there were many cards sent from SEDS to the Webbs.

Dennis, University of Alabama in Huntsville
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Newsgroups: bit.listserv.seds-l
Date:         Sat, 7 Nov 1992 21:43:39 EST
From:         "(Moreley Nelles)" <mnelles@LYNX.DAC.NORTHEASTERN.EDU>
Subject:      BP Vote

I also request that John Wright right a business plan for the IDM ASAP.
This makes three of us now.  Anyone else?
Drew
PS I propose that this be done before the next tcon, so we will have
something else to discuss.
PPS  John, if you need a general outline of a Business Plan let me know,
and I'll email out something.
PPPS  to Bob Summersgill ...  It is coming!
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU
Originator: news@nimaster
Organization: Princeton Planetary Society
Apparently-To: SEDS-L%TAMVM1.BITNET@phoenix.Princeton.EDU
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.seds-l
Date:         Wed, 11 Nov 1992 19:50:14 GMT
Comments:     Warning -- original Sender: tag was news@PRINCETON.EDU
From:         "(Carlos Guillermo Niederstrasser)"
              <carlosn@PHOENIX.PRINCETON.EDU>
Subject:      Board Nomination- Carlos G. Niederstrasser

			SEDS-USA National Executive Board
				Nomination Form

Name: Carlos G. Niederstrasser

Address: 137 Henry Hall
         Princeton University
         Princeton, NJ 08544
Phone:   (609) 258-9517

E-mail:  carlosn@phoenix.princeton.edu

School currently attending: Princeton University

Date of graduation: June 1994

List your experience in SEDS:
President of Princeton Planetary Society (Chapter of SEDS and NSS)
General coordinator for joint PPS/SEDS publication of Space Jobs

--- Someone, please let me know if this reached SEDS-L, I'm having problems
 receiving the group at my end. ---

Essay: Where do you see SEDS in five years?  How do you see yourself
	contributing to this future?


	SEDS, to me, is above all a way for students to be introduced to the space
 program.  This does not simply mean know the facts, but rather know what you,
 as an individual, can contribute to it.  In the years to come, as SEDS
 continues to expand, this should be the overriding principle.  However it is
 much more than that.  SEDS is, and should continue to be a way for young
 individuals to reach positions of leadership and responsibility in a field of
 interest to them.
--
---------------------------------------------------------------------
| Carlos G. Niederstrasser        |   It is difficult to say what   |
| Princeton Planetary Society     | is impossible; for the dream of |
|                                 | yesterday, is the hope of today |
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.seds-l
Date:         Fri, 6 Nov 1992 14:32:46 PST
From:         "(John A. Wright)" <wrightj@CHESHIRE.OXY.EDU>
Subject:      Re: Doug

>Why IDM?
   Right now this issue is so scrambled until UAH stops blaming CalSEDS stops
 blaming MIT we won't get anything done.  Maybe we should drop this issue for
 a couple of months and let everybody cool off.

I don't agree - we're just about to make a decision about IDM (and it's
not that hard of a decision...just let the people who want it to happen
make it happen and ignore all the people who have opinions who aren't
willing to work on it.

John
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Newsgroups: bit.listserv.seds-l
Date:         Sun, 8 Nov 1992 13:55:21 PST
From:         "(Jeffrey Alan Foust)" <jafoust@CCO.CALTECH.EDU>
Subject:      Re: SEDS-USA Address
              "SEDS-L%TAMVM1.BITNET@vm.usc.edu" at Nov 8, 92 8:41 am

	I think at the point in time it is premature to consider whether or
not the national permanent headquarters should be moved from MIT.  Lisa has
stated that she is doing her best to strengthen the MIT SEDS chapter and the
national headquarters and for now we have to take her at her word and give her
time to work on this.  It is, though, unwise to overly burden the national
permanent HQ with additional work, which is why CalSEDS has volunteered to
manage the individual membership program until such a time that the MIT HQ
is strong enough to handle it in addition to its other activities.
	However, if it becomes clear that the MIT HQ is not becoming stronger
and better able to handle the day-to-day affairs of SEDS-USA, then we should
consider moving the permanent headquarters to another site.  I don't think we
should be seriously discussing this until it becomes clear that all efforts at
MIT to strengthen the HQ have failed.  We'll let Ben and Doug duke it out
as to where the permanent HQ should be relocated, should that happen. =)

Ad astra,

Jeff
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