HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: tlindgre@cvbnet.prime.com (Terence Lindgren x5360 5-2)
Newsgroups: soc.religion.quaker
Subject: Re: What do they do?
Date: 6 Nov 92 17:27:15 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: Computervision

In article <1992Nov3.150252.20517@philabs.philips.com>, aeb@philabs.philips.com (Anne Barschall) writes:
|> In article <1992Oct29.153515.24766@udel.edu> jrogers@hercules.cis.udel.edu (James Rogers) writes:
|> >In article <1992Oct29.142836.22415@udel.edu> alelyuna@mercury.cis.udel.edu (Robert Alelyunas) writes:
|> >>
|> >>>Do people in California turn to religion after an earthquake?
|> >>>
|> >
|> >  One of the paradoxes of the spiritual life is that those who have
|> >suffered most are among those who are most certain of ``an infinite
|> >ocean of light and love flowing over the ocean of darkness and death''....
|> >It is one of our Christian mysteries that we can share the sorrows of 
|> >the world and at the same time be certain of the love of God.  A grateful 
|> >heart is one of the fruits of the spirit, and thanksgiving will always be
|> >a dominant theme in Christian worship.
|> >  Thomas F. Green, _Preperation for Worship_ 
|> >   quoted in PYM _Faith and Practice_.
|> >
|> 
|> Totally wierd.  First I see this newsgroup which appears to be about the
|> religious group of which I am a member....
|> ... Then I see someone launching right into some Christo-centric
|> stuff which is fairly controversial amongst Friends in my neck of the woods.


	I am probally missing your point; nonetheless, if I rewrite the piece as

  One of the paradoxes of the spiritual life is that those who have suffered the most 
  are among those who are most certain of an " infinite ocean of light and love flowing
  over the ocean of darkness and death "... It is a mystery that we can share the 
  sorrows of the world and at the same time be certain of the love of God. A
  grateful heart is one of the fruits of spirit, thanksgiving will always be a 
  dominant theme in the spiritual life.  

	I find a form of some of my most fundemental beliefs. Are you saying that
 	my personal conception of God and my gratitude are inconsistent with the
 	religous group of which you are a member? 


			terence
From: Sean.P.Donahue@dartmouth.edu (Sean P. Donahue)
Newsgroups: soc.religion.quaker
Subject: re: Kant (was re:FAQ minute)
Date: 9 Nov 92 04:23:22 GMT
Organization: Dartmouth College, Hanover, NH
X-Posted-From: InterNews1.0a5@newshost.dartmouth.edu

Kant wasn't a friend, but he did grow up in a liberal annabaptist
religion with some similar beliefs (this according to an intro to
_Critique of Pure Reason_, I can't remember which edition though)

in peace,
Sean Donahue
(sean.p.donahue@dartmouth.edu)

"Force subdues, love gains."
-William Penn
From: ddgarcia@cs.berkeley.edu (Dan Garcia)
Newsgroups: soc.religion.quaker
Subject: Chelsea Clinton attends Sidwell Friends?
Date: 11 Nov 1992 22:13:38 GMT
Organization: University of California, Berkeley
Distribution: world
NNTP-Posting-Host: coons.berkeley.edu
Keywords: Sidwell Friends School Clinton

I read in this week's Newsweek that the Clintons are considering three schools
for Chelsea. One is close to the white house, but is an inner-city school with
lots of problems. The other is a private school, but it wouldn't look very
good for the "Education President" to send his daughter off to a private school.
They are thinking about "Sidwell Friends" school as the best compromise, and
certainly the most politically correct one. Any graduates want to comment?

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Dan Garcia (ddgarcia@cs.berkeley.edu) UC Berkeley Computer Science Grad Student
Newsgroups: soc.religion.quaker
From: andyrose@netcom.com (San Francisco Fractal Factory)
Subject: Ritual Animal Sacrifice NYT
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services  (408 241-9760 guest) 
Date: Thu, 5 Nov 1992 20:48:48 GMT

NYTimes p. A8 12/5/92

HIGH COURT IS COOL TO SACRIFICES BAN
	
Spirited Debate Greets Case of Religious Group
That Ritually Kills Animals

Linda Greenhouse, special to NYT
Washington, Nov 4 -

A challenge to a Florida city's ban on animal
sacrifice provided the Supreme Court a
spirited debate today over what limits
exist on government's ability to curb
unpopular or even dangerous religious practices.

  The Justices appeared likely to declare the
ban unconstitutional, seemingly unpersuaded by
the City of Hialeia's defense of a law that forbids
the ritual or ceremonial killing of animals
while permitting such means of ending 
animals' lives as hunting, commercial slaughter,
pest control, and euthanasia [There go those
Youth in Asia again]

-  Read the rest, it's pretty interesting.

The jist is that these folks are black and
are dealing with a god unknown to the local
authorities.  The people of Hialeia
a freaked out by the remains of decapitated
beasts in public places (understandably so).
The 
  Church of Lukumi Babalu Aye 
has planned to build on a downtown lot.

Rehnquist suggested a regulation on the 
disposal of carcases rather than a proscription
on the sacrifices.

REMEMBER!!!!!
1990 Employment Division vs. Smith  held that
neutral laws of general applicability could
ordinarily be enforced against religious
groups without violating the First Amendment
right to free exercise of religion.

"The Smith decision itself held that a
state narcotics law could be enforced
against American Indians who used
the hallucenegenic drug peyote in
religious ceremonies.  Many mainstream
religious groups, including [] Protestants,
Catholics, and Jews  (apparently the big three)
have filed briefs on behalf of the Santeria group."

The Smith decision was authored by Antonin
Scalia- known Republican appointee. [thanks
for Clinton winning]

Scalia asked "Why isn't it valid for [Hialeah]
to argue that [Hialeans] don't care about 
religion, they just don't want sacrifices?"

Professor Laycock[representing the Church]
replied "If that's valid, you are really 
repealling the free-exercise clause"

That is to say, if the court rules in
the favor of Hialeah, they have repealed the
First Amendment right to 'free exercise of
religion'.

-
If anyone is reading this in Florida and is 
familiar with the Lukumi Babalu Aye, fill
us in.


-- 
Andrew Rose andyrose@netcom.com FAX   end killing
From: andyrose@netcom.com (San Francisco Fractal Factory)
Newsgroups: soc.religion.quaker
Subject: Prison Reform
Date: 5 Nov 92 19:53:18 GMT
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services  (408 241-9760 guest)

I have been lead to believe that religious worship
in Friends form is helpful in jails.  Please
support this work.  

I am being denied jail access because of a 'driving
without motorcycle license' traffic warrant, a charge
I answered in a timely fashion.  I will answer
the charge again Dec 3, until then - no Q. meeting
in San Bruno or 7th St. Jail (san Francisco).  If
you are interested in this work, contact me.  I have
spoken to the chaplaincy a number of times, he is
ordained, and is supportive.  

On Nov 3, a $146 million bond act was passed to
construct a 1500 bed facility to 'replace' San Bruno.
No provisions were made for alternatives to incarceration.

Please post results of local elections re: jails and prisons.


-- 
Andrew Rose andyrose@netcom.com FAX   end killing
 
Newsgroups: soc.religion.quaker
From: ba@mrcnext.cso.uiuc.edu (B.A. Davis-Howe)
Subject: Re: What do they do?
Organization: University of Illinois at Urbana
Date: Fri, 6 Nov 1992 20:13:48 GMT

aeb@philabs.philips.com (Anne Barschall) writes:

>In article <BwwCMn.5D8@news.cso.uiuc.edu> euclid@mrcnext.cso.uiuc.edu (Emily Dickenson) writes:
>>Perhaps someone could tell me what *is* the spirit of Quakerism?  I used to
>>go to meetings when i was an undergrad, to try to understand them better.

>Quakers are an extremely diverse group including charismatic Christians,
>universalists, atheists, Jews, Muslims, and witches.  There are several
>subsects ranging from very liberal theologically to very conservative. 

Um, Friend, that is Witches, not witches.  It is capitalised because it 
identifies a religous belief.

>There are different styles of service depending on which subsect you go to.

>The most common unifying belief is religious pacificism (non-participation in
>the military.)

I would disagree with this.  This points at the external practice of Friends
rather than the heart of Quakerism.  I find that the center of the Society is
the conviction that "there is that of God in everyone" and that everyone can
receive revelation from the Divine.  Pacifism is a logical resultant of that
conviction, rather than the source of that conviction.  Sorry if this sounds 
like a nit, but I think that it is important to emphasise that Quakerism is
internally based not externally based.


              Merry meet, merry part, merry meet again,
                               Br'anArthur

Queer, Peculiar, and Wyrd! :-)

******************************************************************************
Newage is hypoallergenic spirituality--
it's for people who are allergic to the word religion.
                                   --Jon Jay Obermark
Newsgroups: soc.religion.quaker
From: emigh@unity.ncsu.edu (Ted Emigh)
Subject: Re: BEANITE QUAKERISM
Organization: North Carolina State University Computing Center
Date: Wed, 11 Nov 1992 20:27:07 GMT

In article <1744600025@igc.apc.org> Joel Sax <jsax@igc.apc.org> writes:
>
>I should add that the reason why these three Yearly Meetings
>(Inter-Mountain, Pacific, and North Pacific) chose not to
>join either FGC or FUM is a matter of money:  we can't
>afford the dues!

FGC does not have dues.  Yearly Meetings,  Quarterly Meetings, Monthly
Meetings, and individual Friends are encouraged to contribute, but there
are not dues.



-- 
Ted H. Emigh                                 emigh@ncsu.edu
Department of Genetics
NC State University, Raleigh, NC, USA
Newsgroups: soc.religion.quaker
Subject: Quaker Folklore
From: Michelle Tracey <MDT109@psuvm.psu.edu>
Date: Thu, 5 Nov 1992 13:48:18 EST
Organization: Penn State University


I don't know if anyone is still collecting folklore, but I have a story i
will paraphrase from a pamphlet on meeting conduct from Pendle Hill.  I
first read it in 11th grade, when I came to Friends seeking a religious
outlet.  Every once in a while i reread the pamphlet, but i haven't done so
in ages.  The story goes:

Two Friends sat in meeting one day.  The spirit was with the meeting this
particular day.  One of the men began fidgiting during the meeting.  He
did this for about fifteen minutes before the man next to him stood up and
witnessed a deeply moving message.  As the two were shaking hands at the
close of meeting, the second man said to the first: "Next time Friend,
deliver it thyself."

I thought hard about this message during meetings, I really think there is
something about quakerism that is suggested in the story.

What?  I'm still meditating on that.
Newsgroups: soc.religion.quaker
From: lee@wrc.xerox.com (Lee Moore)
Subject: Re: Nixon
Reply-To: lee@wrc.xerox.com (Lee Moore)
Organization: Xerox
Distribution: na
Date: Fri, 6 Nov 1992 23:05:31 GMT

On the (US) National Public Radio (NPR), I once heard a writer
being interviewed about Nixon.  A question was asked about Nixon
and his Quaker background.  The writer explained it this way:
The church that Nixon's family belonged to started out
independent of any organized religious group.  (Sort of 
congregational, I suppose)  At some point, they decide to
affliate with a large group.  They looked around and decided
to join the Quakers.  The writer implied that they choose
the Quakers because of their easy entrance requirements.
He also said that other congregations in the western US
had done the same kind of thing.

Lee Moore -- Webster Research Center, Xerox Corp. --
Voice: +1 (716) 422 2496
Arpa Internet:	Moore.Wbst128@Xerox.Com
From: cs331333@umbc8.umbc.edu (cs331333)
Newsgroups: soc.religion.quaker
Subject: Albingenses and Quakers (Possible Correction)
Date: 9 Nov 92 17:16:32 GMT
Organization: University of Maryland, Baltimore County Campus


	If anyone is still interested, it occured to me, in
considering my statement concerning Albingenses and Quakers
that it would be the Unitarians, not the Quakers, whom in
some way 'benefited' from the Albingenses.  I have yet to
go home, and look in the source.
					Joe
From: bill@bessel.as.utexas.edu (William H. Jefferys)
Newsgroups: soc.religion.quaker
Subject: Re: BIBLIOGRAPHY OF QUAKER READINGS
Date: 7 Nov 92 18:10:34 GMT
Organization: McDonald Observatory, University of Texas @ Austin

In article <DZQSB3ZL@cc.swarthmore.edu> mchijio1@cc.swarthmore.edu (Mary Ellen Chijioke) writes:
#
#Other major Quaker bookstores include:
#Friends General Conference Book Store, 1520-B Race St., Philadelphia, PA 
#19102; phone 215-241-7245; 

I apologize if you see this twice; I couldn't find the
first article I posted.

FGC Book Store also has an 800 number: 1-800-966-4556.
They take major credit cards and also will bill you for
the books you order by phone. (In what I assume is an
example of Quaker frugality, they preferred to bill me
when I made an order just the other day, thus saving 
themselves the 6% bank charge).

Bill
Newsgroups: soc.religion.quaker
Subject: Re: What is it?
From: Michelle Tracey <MDT109@psuvm.psu.edu>
Date: Thu, 5 Nov 1992 13:37:28 EST
Organization: Penn State University

In article <Bx7JGx.G7A@undergrad.math.waterloo.edu>,
shafung@leibniz.uwaterloo.ca (Alan) says:

>What is it meant to be a quaker?
>What is the origin of it and what do quakers believe in ?
>What do they practise in the meeting ?

Is it time for a FAQ?

I think not.  We are still discussing quakerism, and its many diversities...

But perhaps this poster might have read some of the posts in this group before
asking.  Although I am learning new things from reading these posts, and i have
studied quakerism myself.
From: andyrose@netcom.com (San Francisco Fractal Factory)
Newsgroups: soc.religion.quaker
Subject: Re: Is this true?
Date: 5 Nov 92 18:12:24 GMT
Article-I.D.: netcom.1992Nov5.181224.10812
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services  (408 241-9760 guest)

wisdom@picasso.ocis.temple.edu (Robert Wisdom) writes:
> 
> 	I heard that shortly after the Quakers organized, they sent a delegation
> to "convert" (I'm not at all sure this is the right word) the pope.  Can 
> anyone tell me more?
> 
>

 			Robert

The correct term is 'convince' (never convert) and yes, the
mission was a success.


-- 
Andrew Rose andyrose@netcom.com FAX   end killing
From: andyrose@netcom.com (San Francisco Fractal Factory)
Newsgroups: soc.religion.quaker
Subject: Meeting On_Line
Date: 5 Nov 92 19:58:26 GMT
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services  (408 241-9760 guest)

If you are familiar with multi-users dungeons
or ftp or telnet, it may have occured
to you that religious meeting could be held
on-line.  A server could be set up  which
would announce whenever anyone joined in.

"Brinton just entered the room."

When someone was lead to 'speak'(type)
it would be like:

"Brinton says: Rejoice! The hour is at hand!"

Something like that.  Then

"Fox shakes Fell's hand." 

at the end.  A flurry of postings to
soc.r.qu would follow (of course).

In time technology will provide us with 
'the room', and pictures of the speakers
or maybe the speakers voice itself.  
Finally a real application for VR. :}


-- 
Andrew Rose andyrose@netcom.com FAX   end killing
From: janzb@augustana.ab.ca
Newsgroups: soc.religion.quaker
Subject: jacob boehme
Date: 6 Nov 92 15:48:52 MST
Organization: Augustana University College, Camrose, aAlberta


I have a question that members of this group might be able to answer.
I have done research on the German mystic Jacob Boehme, and have 
noticed that there is some influence between Boehme and Quakers,
particularly George Fox. Does anyone know anything more about this?
Any good literature on this, other than Rufus Jones' _Spiritual
Reformers in the 16th and 17th Centuries_? You can either post the
information to this group, or e-mail me at janzb@augustana.ab.ca
Thanks.

Bruce Janz
From: Joel Sax <jsax@igc.apc.org>
Newsgroups: soc.religion.quaker
Date: 07 Nov 92 11:07 PST
Subject: Friendly Thoughts No. 1
Nf-ID: #N:cdp:1744600022:000:2663
Nf-From: cdp.UUCP!jsax    Nov  7 11:07:00 1992


From: Joel Sax <jsax>
Subject: Friendly Thoughts No. 1

==================================================================
FRIENDLY THOUGHTS No. 1                             Joel GAzis-SAx
7 November 1992                                     Copyright 1992
==================================================================

A Friend writes with pride that he is "not judgemental".  The 
unintentional self-irony of the remark reflects a deep 
misunderstanding of the judgemental character and, I think, of 
what God intends us to discover.  The Friend who so writes fails 
to appreciate that he has 1.)  Made a judgement upon himself and 
others; 2.)  Created the very sort of polarity which he condemns.  

I do not think polarities are bad when they are used as they are 
in the Jungian typologies.  We would not say, for example, that 
introvert was superior to extrovert or that feeling is better than 
thinking or the reverse of any of these.  Our testimony to 
equality stresses that while we are not all equal in talents, we 
command an equal right to dignity.  I think this extends to 
understanding and managing our temperaments.  The judgemental 
person can fall into the error of creating enemies or acting too 
swiftly, but then the perceiving person can fail to recognize evil 
when it is among us or to decide to act when it is necessary.  

What I am saying that there is value both in the temperament that 
gets things done and in that which allows life to flow.  As 
Friends, we should not fall into the fatal error of never 
exercising our judgement (for, I believe, God calls us to use that 
capacity wisely) or of rushing to it when this is not appropriate.  
We must act and we must allow.  Our struggle before God is always 
to guard against the excesses of our character.  The call is not 
to extirpate or deny our basic tendencies:  it is to love 
ourselves and to love others, to exist when we can in that holy 
state which is above judgement and above perception.  God wills 
only this for us.  We must remember that God has crafted many 
paths for our humanity to follow.

==================================================================
Copyright 1992 by Joel GAzis-SAx.  This article is distributed for 
use of Friends through the Alliance for Progressive 
Communications.  Permission to download for personal or Meeting 
use granted.  If you use this in your Meeting or Church 
newsletter, please send a copy to me.  Financial support for this 
work is appreciated.  Send checks or money order to Joel GAzis-
SAx, 2727 Midtown Court #37, Palo Alto, CA    94303.
==================================================================
From: nelson@crynwr.com (Russell Nelson)
Newsgroups: soc.religion.quaker
Subject: Prison Reform 
Distribution: world
Date: Mon, 02 Nov 92 03:40:24 GMT
Organization: Crynwr Software

In article <Bx3MnK.51y@usenet.ucs.indiana.edu> tbarnes@silver.ucs.indiana.edu writes:

   How might Quakers go about convincing adult criminals to reform their
   ways? Most ways that I can think of would seem to be ineffective.

The AVP (Alternatives to Violence Project) founded by New York Yearly
Meeting, seems to be working fairly well.  It teaches people how to
resolve conflict nonviolently.

-russ <nelson@crynwr.com> What canst *thou* say?
Crynwr Software           Crynwr Software sells packet driver support.
11 Grant St.              315-268-1925 Voice  |  LPF member - ask me about
Potsdam, NY 13676         315-268-9201 FAX    |  the harm software patents do.
Organization: Penn State University
Date: Thu, 12 Nov 1992 23:14:04 EST
From: Michelle Tracey <MDT109@psuvm.psu.edu>
Newsgroups: soc.religion.quaker
Subject: Re: Defining quaker

In article <1drm1nINNmkm@uwm.edu>, glenne@csd4.csd.uwm.edu (Neuromancer ) says:

>andyrose@netcom.com (San Francisco Fractal Factory) writes:

>I'm not sure the trembling I have experienced is quite the same
>as what has been described for Quaker trembling.  It seems to
>start out the same, I feel compelled to say something and start
>to tremble, and then while I am saying it, I do feel a great
>power and release.  But there is a difference with what I
>experience and what has been described.  After I say what needed
>to be said, I will still feel trembly, sort of overwhelmed.  When
>I spoke deeply from the heart more than once or twice during a
>service, at the Mennonite church I had been attending regularly,
>I remained quite jumpy for a while.
>Glenn                                  glenne@csd4.csd.uwm.edu

I spoke only once in meeting since i began attending meeting in 88,
This one time, I sat for 10 minutes waiting for the trembling to stop
finally I realized that this wasn't an observation that i could hold
until after meeting to share with my friend, who's meeting i was visiting
but that i MUST stand and speak it now.  There was no voice saying do it,
but i was trembling violently, my mouth was dry, and i could not sit stil
When i stood, I found that my legs were very week.  When i had finished
I nearly fell back onto the seat.  I was sweating, and very weak.
I remained jumpy until about ten minutes after meeting, at which time
I forgot that i had even spoken.  Another friend had to remind me.  All
in all it was a strange occurance (especially that i forgot i had spoken)
So yes, it does happen to other people.  :)
Newsgroups: soc.religion.quaker
From: <ELLEN@PURCCVM.BITNET>
Subject: Re: List question
Organization: Purdue University
 <1992Nov5.180150.10355@netcom.com> <cs_jh.789.0@cox.nsac.ns.ca>
Date: Sun, 8 Nov 1992 00:25:11 GMT

  I, TOO, WOULD LIKE TO KNOW WHAT QUAKER-L IS.  I AM HAPPY TO SEE
THIS GROUP IN THE NETNEWS FILE.  I ATTEND THE LAFAYETTE FRIENDS MEETING
IN WEST LAFAYETTE, MOSTLY PURDUE PEOPLE (AND VERY SMALL GROUP).  BUT IT
IS AN UNPROGRAMMED MEETING.  I WENT TO A PROGRAMMED MEETING IN MOORESVILLE
LAST MONTH--DIDN'T REALLY LIKE IT, BUT IT WAS DEFINITELY MORE RELAXED THAN
THE MAINSTREAM CHURCHES.
From: andyrose@netcom.com (San Francisco Fractal Factory)
Newsgroups: soc.religion.quaker
Subject: NIXON WORLD'S BEST KNOWN QUAKER
Date: 5 Nov 92 20:18:18 GMT
Article-I.D.: netcom.1992Nov5.201818.19860
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services  (408 241-9760 guest)


give me a break.

-- 
Andrew Rose andyrose@netcom.com FAX   end killing
 
Newsgroups: soc.religion.quaker
From: ba@mrcnext.cso.uiuc.edu (B.A. Davis-Howe)
Subject: Re: Quaker Humor
Organization: University of Illinois at Urbana
Date: Fri, 6 Nov 1992 20:06:02 GMT

warwick@oak.math.ucla.edu (Warwick Daw) writes:


>"I'm not a member of an organized religion. I'm a Quaker."

I frequently refer to the Society as a "disorganised religion".  And that's
just the way I want it!  (I grew up Roman Catholic, you see. :-) )


              Merry meet, merry part, merry meet again,
                               Br'anArthur

Queer, Peculiar, and Wyrd! :-)

******************************************************************************
Newage is hypoallergenic spirituality--
it's for people who are allergic to the word religion.
                                   --Jon Jay Obermark
Newsgroups: soc.religion.quaker