HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: J.P.Brannan <J.P.Brannan@cornell.edu>
Subject: Re Diceless or Senseless?
Nntp-Posting-User: jpb1@cornell.edu
Organization: Cornell University
X-Useragent: Nuntius v1.1.1d1
Distribution: na
Date: Fri, 14 Aug 1992 19:29:21 GMT

I came in on this discussion a little late, but I agree with certain
statements people have made about the Amber RPG system:
  1.Yes, it is not totally true to the novels, but then again, I gather
it was put together before all of the novels were written.  This leads
to....
   2. Yes, the magic system is made out to be pretty wimpy.  BUT, in the
hands of an imaginative role-player, and a GM who is familiar with the
Merlin series, it can still be pretty dangerous (4pts, Rack and Use
Spells), especially when a character can literally make any spell they
want, as long as they have the endurance for the casting time and/or the
other powers they want to combine with Sorcery/Conjuration.  

As for combat, in the Amber games I have played in and/or GMed, the
players have been hesitant (sp?) to engage anyone directly without first
having allies and/or set traps.  IMHO, this is because the political
situation in Amber is such that because no one knows *everything* about
everyone else, you can never tell when, "oops, the person you decided to
kill just for the heck of it is secretly Benedict's gay lover" (:^)
(JOKE, really, honest it never happened in a game - no flames please!)

Therefore, Amberites spend so much time plotting that by the time they
act, there should be a clear conclusion for the GM to make, because the
GM is the only person that knows everything about all of the characters
(if he loses track, problems do arise).

But for me, the difference between diceless and die-based rpgs is that
very often, the dice based systems (especially *D&D and SR) have very
rigid restrictions on who can do what with what and how often, while (at
least in the Amber system) you can custom make a character however you
want, with whatever spells you want, whatever combination of powers, or
even create new powers.  I'm not saying it impossible with die-based
systems, just that it isn't usually encouraged to the extent that it is
in diceless systems.

--------------------------------
Really, I don't *try* to post blank articles, it just happens.  Sorry. 
I'm trying to stop. :)
J.P. Brannan
J.P. Brannan@cornell.edu
Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.misc
From: matoh@lysator.liu.se (Mats \hrman)
Subject: Has anyone got ShadowrunII yet?
Reply-To: matoh@sssab.se
Organization: 3S AB
Date: Thu, 20 Aug 1992 09:58:07 GMT

...and can post some sort of review/"what's-different"-summary?

					/Regiment, curious Merc


--
     _
Mats Ohrman     Scandinavian System Support AB       E-mail:   matoh@sssab.se
                Box 535    _                      Telephone:  +46 13 11 16 60
                581 06 Linkoping, Sweden            Telefax:  +46 13 11 51 93
Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.misc
Subject: Re: SRun: Mag 3 Cyber Eyes in Combat
From: ward1@husc8.harvard.edu (Lester Ward)
Date: 14 Aug 92 21:57:42 GMT

josecuer@sage.cc.purdue.edu (Aaron Smith) writes:

>work as scopes.  If you *really* think that the mag eyes unbalance the game then don't just rule that they don't work that way, there is no logic in that.

I think there is a .lot. of "logic in that".  Scopes help because they are
mounted on the gun and work like sights.  With op mag you have no connection
to the barrel of the gun at all.  If you're smartlinked, the dot's already
on the target, your not gonna get it any better.

Wordman

Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.misc
From: harp@netcom.com (Gregory O. Harp)
Subject: Re: Improvisation!
Date: Fri, 21 Aug 92 09:35:09 GMT
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services  (408 241-9760 guest) 

dfrancis@tronsbox.xei.com (Dennis Heffernan) writes:

>In article <qd#n57#.harp@netcom.com> harp@netcom.com (Gregory O. Harp) writes:
>|In other words, they found the guilty party: the minion.  However,
>|their observations allowed me to realize that there was a deeper plot.
>|I then improvise the new plot.

>	That's "changing reality".  If the perp was working for someone else,
>that should have been noted beforehand.  If the players convince themselves
>that he was, well, they can look all they like but they're not going to find
>any proof....

Well, I wouldn't allow the PC's to talk me into such a situation.
However, if I noticed it myself, I would secretly change my thinking
on the subject.

Perhaps it comes out that the perpetrator is working for someone else
only when they capture him.

Now that I think about it, the example here is a bad one.  The fact
that a murderer "turns out" to be working for someone else is a
somewhat major plot point.  I don't go changing those...
-- 
-----------------Greg-Harp----------------harp@netcom.com------------------
  Love me, love my ferrets.               "Break out of the mold before
  Or at least love my ferrets. ;)          the mold sets in" -- B52's
Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.misc
Subject: Re: SRun: Firearms range (was Mag 3 Cyber Eyes in Combat
From: ward1@husc8.harvard.edu (Lester Ward)
Date: 14 Aug 92 21:46:26 GMT
 <1992Aug13.103225.6603@ncsu.edu> <Bsy79v.4ML@news.cso.uiuc.edu> <14AUG199212342457@jane.uh.edu>

chem7l@jane.uh.edu (Corbit, Jim) writes:
> And does anyone know
>whether SR II limits mages' range?

Same as before.  I think the visibility table has been changed (providing
much needed cover), use it to control T#.

>Jim Corbit
>chem7l@jetson.uh.edu

Wordman
Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.misc
From: tdunn@ecst.csuchico.edu (Tim Dunn)
Subject: Re: ALternate Gaming Groups
Organization: California State University, Chico
Date: Mon, 17 Aug 1992 07:00:58 GMT


Well, one game I turned down had us start out by stat'ing ourselves in
game terms (using Hero mechanics.) The referee then nuked the players
silly, and imposed 'radiation accidents' on them when they came out of 
the shelter.

Me? I quit because most of us stat'ed ourselves between 17 and 31 pts.
One clueless wonder gave himself 297 points worth of combat abilities.
The radiation accident put us at 300 pts each. He got one skill level.

-- 
God made machine language; all the rest is the work of man.
From: swann@acsu.buffalo.edu (Stephen Swann)
Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.misc
Subject: Re: Improvisation!
Date: 13 Aug 92 01:25:24 GMT
Organization: UB

In article <BsvzyK.4qH@usenet.ucs.indiana.edu> ericg@bronze.ucs.indiana.edu (Eric Chris Garrison) writes:
>I was reading the GMing goals thread, and someone mentioned
>improvisation vs. preparation, and it lead me to ask this
>question of GMs in this group:  How much improvisation do
>you do?  Do you improvise 10% of the time, when characters
>"go off the map"?  Do you improvise 50% of the time, writing
>up a skeleton for "run time" fleshing out?  Do you improvise
>even 90% of the time, having a basic premise and just "wing" it?

When I first started DMing (quite a while ago :-) I used to make up
detailed scenarios and characters in advance, because my knowledge of
the game system wasn't good enough to be able to create realistic
characters and scenarios on the spur of the moment.

These days, I improvise 99% of the time.  Almost all the NPC's in my
campaign (except for a handful that I made up at the very beginning of
the campaign) have been created "on the fly".  When necessary, I flesh
out an NPC further on my own time, but I never really make them up in
advance.  How could I?  I never know *what* sort of characters I might
need!  ;-)  And the players invariably hail the on-the-fly adventures
as the being the most fun and satisfying, because they're always so
much more -kinetic-.

Also, I have a world map, but most of the time, I don't even know what
a particular area is actually like until the players go there, and I
have to describe it to them.  :-)

>Any thoughts on improvisation?  Preparation?

Preparation is fine (in fact necessary) for the beginning DM, or for
a DM learning a new gaming system.  After that, why bother, it's
more fun to make it up as you go along.  :-)

-- 
Steve Swann                 |    Speak to me in many voices; make
swann@acsu.buffalo.edu      |      them all sound like one...  -BOC
From: PCHEM14@Zeus.unomaha.edu (FALL88)
Subject: Re: Ambushes (was Re: Gurps Supers is still broken)
Organization: University of Nebraska at Omaha
Date: Wed, 12 Aug 1992 23:22:50 GMT
X-News-Reader: VMS NEWS 1.11

In <1992Aug12.165711.5730@tronsbox.xei.com> dfrancis@tronsbox.xei.com writes:

> 	Fuck the genre.

Fine.

-james
From: dunning@chainsaw.ecn.purdue.edu (GALACTIC COMMANDER)
Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.misc
Subject: Re: Improvisation!
Date: 21 Aug 92 22:24:26 GMT
Organization: Purdue University Engineering Computer Network

In article <1992Aug21.003640.58302@cc.usu.edu> sl9b4@cc.usu.edu (Deep Six) writes:
>In article <1992Aug20.205137.27889@noose.ecn.purdue.edu>, 
>Are the freshmen coming back already?  
>
>First of all (actually it's not first of all, I've asked this before), 
>what is wrong with rewarding players for playing intellegently, solving
>puzzles, unraveling mysteries, etc? If you compare the players to mice, 
>I think it's because you've never played in a ``grown up'' game. Sounds
>like you have a problem with being a ``good little mouse'' cuz that is 
>all you have played in. The reward system I try to run can be very 
>complex.
>
>Second (and this really is second of all, cuz I said this before in a
>post that Galactic Commander didn't bother to read), I never use modules.
>I don't have the money and they never work right.

Today we shall discuss SARCASAM, because it seems that this group has
some poor unfortunate intelligence-impaired (PC correct term). Hi
Deep Six!!  :)

The good little mouse was a SYMBOL (can you say symbol Deep?) or both
the module approach and this thread.  This thread gneerated approximately
5 good articles after that it degenerated back into mine is better than
yours - that belongs on advocacy (that is the reason for the split).

There has not been a single post that has been anything else that defensive
from you the entire time Deep.  You post how your way is the proper way
and everyone is obviously playing wrong.  Shame on you (tsk tsk).

[Above is an example of sarcasam - a note just for you Deep :)]

Basically it comes down to the style of the GM.  If you and your players
like module-style approachs then  go with it.  If you and the players
prefer improv then use it.  If they prefer a mix then grab it.

Isn't that what gaming comes down too?  The enjoyment of the GM and the
players......

Chip
--

-----------------------------\_/-----------------------------
 Elwood H Dunning III         |     I am a pirate, I don't
  GALACTIC COMMANDER          |           DO decency!!
From: sl9b4@cc.usu.edu (Deep Six)
Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.misc
Subject: Re: Improvisation!
Date: 19 Aug 92 21:10:41 MDT
Organization: Utah State University

In article <ts!n#3g.harp@netcom.com>, 
 harp@netcom.com (Gregory O. Harp) writes:
> dfrancis@tronsbox.xei.com (Dennis Heffernan) writes:
> 
>>In article <4773@balrog.ctron.com> smith@ctron.com writes:
>>|If I don't know that answer, it may be that there isn't one, or that I haven'
>>|made one up and need more feedback about what the players are planning.  The
>>|solution may not be all that useful.
> 
>>Then the players are writing the adventure -- and that's YOUR job.
> 
> Says you.  Let him run his world the way he likes, ok?

Now hold on, I thought everyone agreed that we were going to keep 
discussing this even though it IS largely a matter of personal taste.
Just think of the statements and arguments in general, applying in a
broad sense.

>>A properly written mystery has one and only one possible solution.  It
>>must be impossible for any other solution to be valid -- the facts of the
>>case must be such that only the intended solution is correct.
> 
> Why?  

Well that's just the way it works out. Think about a murder. Only one 
party could be responsible. While the characters are working out the 
details of the case, just because they find someone else who has motive 
and no alibi, that can't change the solution to the murder. Example --
the GM says, ``You're wrong, the Duke's uncle did it.'' Then the players
say, ``But the butler had motive, he has no alibi and he had access to
the Duke's chambers, he must have done it.'' So the GM is supposed to 
say, ``Hmm. You're right. Okay, the butler did it.''

> I mean, how can you _absolutely_ determine that the facts you give
> your party can point to one and only one solution?  No one is
> infallable.

Improvising a plot isn't going to make you infallible. This isn't a 
matter of fallibility -- you can screw up either way. Think of the guy
(sorry I don't remember your name, but your post was good) who said
he was winging a game once and he forgot a small, improvised detail
about an NPC. The detail came up later (remembered by the players) and
created a big illogical hole in his campaign.

Further, most players don't insist on perfection. I have messed up 
before, and the players are forgiving. All you can do is learn from
your mistakes (when winging it or prepping).
 
>>If I found out that my GM changed reality so that my "answer" was
>>correct, I'd slit his throat and take away his dice.

I have been trying to say this for a while now, and that is the best
way I have heard it put. When you improv a whole game (hardly any or
no prep), you can end up changing reality to make the PCs right. I don't
think players would find that very rewarding.
 
> Look, man, it's a *game*!

He does have a point here, you might want to be careful about who you
game with -- stealing dice is a serious infraction.
 
Okay,
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Chadd VanZanten SL9B4@CC.USU.EDU  ``You know, I thought this was a
good idea but this is one weird mama-jama.''  -- TV's Frank, MST3K
Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.misc
From: mkkuhner@phylo.genetics.washington.edu (Mary K. Kuhner)
Subject: Re: RPG's for disabled kids
Organization: University of Washington, Seattle
Date: Wed, 12 Aug 1992 14:16:10 GMT

When roleplaying blind characters, I've found keeping my own eyes closed
surprisingly helpful.  It focuses your attention on your other senses,
and helps prevent you from assuming your character has access to
information she doesn't.

This might also help in finding a way to do descriptions for blind
players.

Mary Kuhner mkkuhner@genetics.washington.edu
From: cb317@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Stephanie J. Kessler)
Subject: Re: Speaking of ambushes (where we?)...
Organization: Case Western Reserve University, Cleveland, Ohio, (USA)
Date: Sat, 15 Aug 92 17:35:45 GMT


My advice would be to set up an area of the map for an ambush
where they have no choice but to enter (aka a mountain pass which
is the only way through).  Of perhaps they'll go hunting, and
the prey darts into a group of trees, and in the heat of the hunt,
they follow (or one does, he gets in trouble, and the rest have
to go rescue him).  The only other way around it that I can think
of is to put ambushes in places where your party wouldn't expect
one (aka behind some rocks in a bend in the path).
-- 
The United States is a nation of laws:  badly written and
randomly enforced.     Frank Zappa

cb317 @ cleveland.Freenet.Edu
From: dfrancis@tronsbox.xei.com (Dennis Heffernan)
Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.misc
Subject: Re: Improvisation!
Date: 19 Aug 92 03:01:45 GMT
Organization: Xanadu Enterprises Inc.

In article <4773@balrog.ctron.com> smith@ctron.com writes:
|I can see someone not liking this style of play, but I must object to this
|conclusion.  I invariably game master in Stephen's style. Sometimes I know
|the answer to the mystery.  Sometimes I don't.  And, most importantly, some-
|times I'm wrong!

	"Knowing the answer" is not enough.  When you see a magician do a
trick, you already "know the answer" -- it's a trick.  You need to know the
why's and how's and such.

|If I don't know that answer, it may be that there isn't one, or that I haven't
|made one up and need more feedback about what the players are planning.  The
|solution may not be all that useful.

	Then the players are writing the adventure -- and that's YOUR job.

|
|If I'm wrong it's even more entertaining - for me, as well as everyone else.
|I remember one game vividly where my players carefully analyzed the situation
|and, with unerring and flawless logic, thoroughly nailed a character I had
|thought was completely blameless.  I reviewed the facts, thinking maybe he'd
|been framed, but it turned out the NPC I thought was responsible for the mess
|was, in fact, a front for the real culprit.  Sometimes your players really are
|smarter than you, and they deserve recogition of that fact.  If I'd simply
|invented the scenario beforehand, and stuck to the NPC "culprit" the game
|would not have been as much fun or as successful.

	A properly written mystery has one and only one possible solution.  It
must be impossible for any other solution to be valid -- the facts of the
case must be such that only the intended solution is correct.

	If I found out that my GM changed reality so that my "answer" was
correct, I'd slit his throat and take away his dice.


dfrancis@tronsbox.xei.com   ...uunet!tronsbox!dfrancis     
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"I don't understand why you make such a big deal out of everything...haven't
you learned; if it's not happenning to me it's not important?" -Murphy Brown
Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.misc,su.etc,ba.general,ba.market
From: coyote@leland.Stanford.EDU (The White Blackbird)
Subject: Serial Killer
Organization: Nevermore, Inc.
Date: Sat, 15 Aug 92 00:52:06 GMT

Hi all, 

I'm looking for a game called _Serial Killer_ (the only game that
comes in a body bag!), and I was wonderin' if any of y'all out there
have heard of it and know where I can get a copy. 

As far as I understand, it's a board game where you try to kill as
many folks as possible before getting caught by police.

Any help is appreciated,
-=dav
From: tfv0@ns1.cc.lehigh.edu (Theodore F. Vaida ][)
Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.misc
Subject: Anybody out there know about irc?
Date: 12 Aug 92 18:21:46 GMT
Organization: Lehigh University

Irc=internet relay chat, realtime (as oposed to mail) communications
with multiple people via the internet (like the unix talk function)
I'd love to see some of you irc if you have time, and if you dont have it
on your system, you can find a nearby ftp site by using archie
(login as "archie" on archie.rutgers.edu).  if we use to same channel
(lets call it "#FRP" then well all know where to go.)  ill be there... 
-- 

---------=======================================================---------
                  ->POLAR CAPS<- or tfv0@lehigh.edu
Now a Student Konsultant, making the world safe for computing!
     NEW!!! Now the Macintosh conference moderator too!
"One must not confuse John Dunne's famous quote `No man is an Island' with
 New York Telephone's `We're all connected'" - Dad
Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.misc
From: jbm@sei.cmu.edu (Jason Mahoney)
Subject: AD&D character ideas ??
Organization: Software Engineering Institute
Date: Thu, 13 Aug 1992 18:53:39 GMT


  HEY!
     
     Does anyone have any really cool kickbutt (AD&D 2nd edition) ideas for
a character?  (i.e.  a dark elf necromancer or a draconain who defected from
the clan in order to fulfill a 'higher calling' or a quickling who is "cursed"
 with an invisibilty spell 'ha ha ha' .....etc)

                  PLEASE TRY TO STAY WITHIN THE R-U-L-E-S !!

 
               Thanks!

                          
 ______   ___  ___  _________          e-mail me at: jbm@sei.cmu.edu
   ----\    / /    /------              aka "Chevy Van Halen"
        \  / /----/              "WAHHHHHHH WHEEEEEEEEEEEEE RAOUUUUUUU WAH WAH
         \/ /    /                WAH WAH WEEeeeee......Yeah!"-Eddie Van Halen
Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.misc
From: urban@stout.atd.ucar.edu (Art Urban (PROFS))
Subject: Re: GURPS Rewrite
Organization: Atmospheric Technology Division/NCAR Boulder, CO
Date: Mon, 17 Aug 1992 17:14:41 GMT

In article <3299@bcstec.ca.boeing.com> hall@bcstec.ca.boeing.com (Robert J. Hall) writes:
%
% >         One thing I would like to see is a 'fast-resolution' combat for
% > high-defense-roll characters that merges with the normal system. Currently,
% > the only suggestion that GURPS makes is to resolve hitting as a quick
% > contest between attack skill and defense roll - which pretty much makes
% > defenses obselete, and all-out attacks the 'in' choice.
%
%My understanding was that the contest of skills was meant to shorten combat
%by making it more lethal. It wasn't meant to speed up the combat resolution
%process. You still end up making the same number of rolls.

Perhaps one could still use the *quick* contest combat rules, allowing the
defender to roll vs. normal weapon skill for a parry, normal DX/Acrobatics
for a dodge, and normal shield skill for a block. *If* the blow gets
through, then re-test the attack skill roll vs 2*PD of the armor, to see if the
armor glanced the blow.

As an example: fighter A and B engage in combat, both wearing chain on the
torso. Fighter A has a 16 Weapon skill, Figter B a 13. A attacks B, and rolls
a 9; success by 7. B attempts a parry of 13 and rolls an 8; success, but not
as good as A, ergo A's blow gets past the parry. Now since B is wearing chain
(let's assume a cutting blow), it has a PD of 3. Double the PD to 6 and attempt
to roll under it by more than the attack succeeded by (7). You may already
notice that this cannot be done. *I* would allow a critical success to indicate
a successful defense roll here. Fighter B rolls a 5; the blow lands. Roll for
damage as normal.

--
Art Urban 					       urban@stout.atd.ucar.edu
===============================================================================
 "What's Next? Chasing bunnies on a motorbike until their hearts explode? -Crow
===============================================================================
From: mtp@ukc.ac.uk (M.T.Paley)
Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.misc
Subject: Re: Music & Roleplaying
Date: 13 Aug 92 16:51:01 GMT
Reply-To: mtp@ukc.ac.uk (Matt Paley)
Organization: Physics Laboratory, University of Kent, Canterbury, UK

In article <1992Aug11.084152.1755@cs.kuleuven.ac.be> philipd@cs.kuleuven.ac.be (Philip Dutre) writes:
>Has anyone tried to use music and/or sounds during a roleplaying session?
>Did it enhance the atmosphere of the game, or was it just annoying when the GM
>was busy trying to locate the correct sound on a tape?
>
>-- 
>| Phil Dutre                    | philipd@cs.kuleuven.ac.be                 |
>| Dept. Computer Science        | Phone: 32 16 201015 x3094 / x3552         |
>| Kath. Univ. Leuven            | Fax:   32 16 205308                       |
>| Celestijnenlaan 200A  B-3001 Heverlee  Belgium                            |

Once during a CoC game our group had dim light from a desk lamp under the
table with the music from horror films ( Omen, ... ) being played softly
in the background.  This had a pretty good effect but the live fully grown
tarantula complete with worryingly large fangs wandering around the room
added something as well!

The tarantula was a pet of one of the players, he kept it in his university
room hoping that the cleaners never found it ( actually her ).

	Matthew
Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.misc