HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: kene@sequent.com (Ken Ewing)
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical.guitar
Subject: Re: Parkening [Was Re: Advice from Segovia]
Date: 6 Nov 92 21:20:11 GMT
Article-I.D.: sequent.1992Nov6.212011.2013
Organization: Sequent Computer Systems Inc.

In article <BxB11o.Myt@news.cso.uiuc.edu> lbroda@s.psych.uiuc.edu (Larry Broda) writes:
>elf@dgp.toronto.edu (Eugene Fiume) writes:
>
>A collection of several of the pieces from that Bach album was
>published, and I think it's still around.  The "Sheep may safely
>graze" arrangement, if I recall correctly, features the 6th string
>tuned down to C, and is not overly difficult except for some rather
>large left hand stretches.
>

Yes, there is (was?) a book for the Parkening Plays Bach album.  
"Sheep" requires the 6th string to be tuned down to a C, and the 
5th string to be tuned down to a G.  I agree that it is not overly 
difficult.  There are a few long left-hand stretches, and the 
piece is basically a loooong series of chord changes.  

"Sheep" was arranged by Rick Foster.  I have some other books 
containing pieces arranged by Foster, and he uses the above alternate 
tuning on a number of pieces.  

  Ken Ewing 
  Sequent Computer Systems, Inc. 
  Beaverton, Oregon 
  kene@sequent.com 
  ...!uunet!sequent!kene
From: radams@cerritos.edu
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical.guitar
Subject: Re: LH Pressure 
Date: 13 Nov 92 19:07:25 PST
Followup-To: rec.music.classical.guitar
Organization: Cerritos College, Norwalk CA

In article <basinski-131192121400@lully.biosci.arizona.edu>, 
basinski@biosci.arizona.edu (Mark Basinski) writes:

> In article <1992Nov12.191836.7566@cerritos.edu>, radams@cerritos.edu wrote:
>> This is good, but make sure that your right hand is playing at a concert
>> volume and not real lightly or weakly so that you won't have any false
>> illusions about how light your left hand can be. 
> 
>   Naturally! It is also important that your instrument is set up 
> properly, action not too low, etc.

Yes. I was told by a guitar maker that did some work on a guitar of
Elliot Fisk that he likes his action so high on his guitar that you need the 
hands of a lumberjack to play it (I'm not sure if its measured in cm or mm 
[I'm so ignorant about the metric system] but he mentioned the number 7 or 8
whereas most of use like the action at 2 or 3 I think). Anyway, the idea
that the action has to be very high to have a lot of volume projection is 
based on a strenous philosophy of sound production which I disagree with.

>> ... Isaac Stern and
>> others recommend pressing hard with left hand to get a viril tone. This may
>> not apply to guitar perhaps
> 
> 
> It is just something to be aware of. In general, it is good to practice
> with
> varied levels of effort. Practice a total minimum effort (in both hands), 
> then add more intensity, and use you're ears to evaluate what the real
> result is, in order to always use the minimum force for your goal. Note
> that "minimum force" can be quite a lot (if you're playing Forte, or using
> a strong vibrato), but never in excess of what is nexessary to accomplish
> the
> goal in  mind.

Great advice. Perhaps you might agree that to have a small margin to work 
within, especially in a concert situation, would be good, ie. one may press a 
little harder than necessary, perhaps allowing a spontaneous crescendo etc. 
without buzzing, and without impeding basic relaxation and facility ofcourse. 
A lot of players that I have heard are very buzzy (even famous players) and 
this may indicate that they don't have this margin or that they never cared 
about buzzing in the first place (but I imagine they are much cleaner in their
practice studios).


-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
	Roger Adams
	radams@cerritos.edu               To those in whom love dwells,
	Cerritos College                  the whole world is one family.
	11110 Alondra Blvd                             A Hindu Proverb
        Norwalk, California 90650
	USA        		          292 Dwapara :-)
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical.guitar
From: colwell@pdx023.world (Robert Colwell)
Subject: Re: Jazz Fingerstyle Too?
Organization: /fs2/d/colwell/.organization
Date: Thu, 5 Nov 1992 05:48:03 GMT


   >How about allowing discussion on Jazz Fingerstyle in this group?

Jazz on a classical guitar is still unusual. Earl Klugh comes to mind
instantly, although I know many jazz fans who would object to my calling
his music "jazz". Well, it sure ain't classical, whatever you call it.

I've played both classical and jazz for about 30 years, which doesn't mean
I'm great at either, it mostly means I didn't arrive at the following
opinions overnight.  Personally, I don't find much carry-over from one to
the other. The tricks and mindset I use when wielding an electric jazz
guitar, listening for rhythms and counterpoints, trying to dance around the
melody and tease the rest of the band, are nothing at all like what's in my
mind when I'm playing classical. The fingers aren't even doing similar
things, except in a very gross mechanical kind of way.

For me, the main thing playing electric does to my classical playing is to
give me bad habits to overcome. (Segovia once said if you hang your left
thumb up over the neck, there is no hope for you as a classical player. He
implied that suicide would be the honorable tack, but diplomatically did
not state it in as many words.)

Classical playing, on the other hand, I think can bring improved precision
and clarity to your left hand fingerings. You still won't sound like Joe
Pass, but at least your guitar will be producing the notes you're asking it
to.

Hmm, now that I've typed all this in, I realize the post I'm ostensibly
replying to was not about this at all. I hate it when that happens. :-)

Bob Colwell  colwell@ichips.intel.com  503-696-4550
Intel Corp.  JF1-19
5200 NE Elam Young Parkway
Hillsboro, Oregon 97124
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical.guitar
From: gerald.b.ross@um.cc.umich.edu (Gerald Ross)
Subject: Xmas Album Suggestions?
News-Software: IBM OS/2 PM RN (NR/2) v0.14 by O. Vishnepolsky and R. Rogers
Reply-To: gerald.b.ross@um.cc.umich.edu
Organization: University of Michigan Math Dept
Date: Thu, 5 Nov 1992 14:21:50 GMT

How about some suggestions for guitar Xmas music on CD.

Here are my recent favorites...
      Hymns, Carols and Songs about Snow - Tuck Andress

      Nutcracker Suite - Modern Mandolin Quartet

more?
From: wack@ariel.ncsl.nist.gov (John Wack)
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical.guitar
Subject: re: re: parkening
Date: 13 Nov 92 16:17:19 GMT
Distribution: na
Organization: National Institute of Standards & Technology



Grrrr.  This talk about Parkening, etc., bothers me.  Let the poor
guy alone, c'mon!  Look, I had a classical guitar teacher who used
to constantly cut Parkening down because he had "big hands" and was
therefore able to do complex fingerings more easily with "poor 
technique" than those of us with small hands.  Geeez!

Parkening does not have as broad a repetoire as many others and his
technique is not as great, and his "musicality" is not THE best, but
for all those shortcomings, he does have his strong points.  Number
one, he HAS released new music, including some beautiful duets and
spirituals with Kathleen Battle, and I don't see too many other
guitarists doing that - classical arrangements of American music.
He DOES have a beautiful tone - some of his playing of Bach and some
of the more recent stuff he's recorded is very well done and ranks
with the best.

At the risk of many flames, I sense a certain amount of arrogance and
high-falootin' behaviour from some of the posters.  I would bet that
most of you aren't anywhere as good as Parkening.  He doesn't go around
making high claims to his ability, in fact, the guy is quite humble.
The idea of not listening to him because his technique is not perfect
means that you're limiting yourself to your own disadvantage.

Live and let live.
Organization: University of Maine System
Date: Thursday, 12 Nov 1992 16:27:55 EST
From: <IO21145@MAINE.MAINE.EDU>
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical.guitar
Subject: Schubert - Mertz transcriptions

      I recently heard David Liesner perform Schubert Lieder for
      solo guitar on a radio programme. They were quite something!
- I understand that Schubert himself owned and composed on
a guitar, for he was much to poor (prostitutes add up !)
to own a piano. I've heard his music described as
"guitaristic", Liesner really made this clear to his listener.
  I was wondering If anyone out in the news world has ever worked
 on these transcriptions by J.Mertz. And if so, how difficult they
are technically, which lieder are included, and if they are relativley
accurate in terms of the actual song.

Thanks for reading,

Seth Warner
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical.guitar
From: andersmh@ucsu.Colorado.EDU (ANDERSON  MIKE HOWARD)
Subject: Bar chords
Organization: University of Colorado, Boulder
Date: Wed, 11 Nov 1992 19:53:59 GMT


>muscle groups. For example, if you do lots of bars, and the only way
>you can get the bar to work is by really pinching hard, i.e. lots of
>pressure with the thumb, you're going to have problems. It is much
>more efficient to use the arm (both weight and arm/shoulder muscles)
>along with fixation of the index finger to do bars - the thumb is 
>hardly necessary at all for force, but serves a role as a stabilizer. This
>in turn is much easier to do if the guitar is angled slightly away from
>you, that is, the neck should be slanting away from you at about
>a 25 - 30 degree angle. This is a very difficult thing to explain; it is
>really necessary to "get the hang" of it physically, and a teacher
>(who understands this concept) is the ideal way to learn this. I really
>got into this in detail in my studies with Abel Carlevaro, but this is
>something that many players and teachers stress, not just Abel.
>----------------------------------------------------------------------------
>Mark Basinski      Internet: basinski@biosci.arizona.edu

I tell people to try a bar chord with the thumb at the front side
of the fingerboard, just to get the feel.  If they are barring the
chord at all then they are probably doing it right.  The pressure points
are the index finger, the upper bout of the guitar against the chest and
the upper right arm.

Mike
From: mia@crosfield.co.uk (mark allison)
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical.guitar
Subject: Re: Steve Hackett fans??
Date: 5 Nov 92 16:27:34 GMT
Organization: Crosfield Electronics, Hemel Hempstead, United Kingdom.
X-Newsreader: Tin 1.1 PL3

kjc7435@ultb.isc.rit.edu (K.J. Cater) writes:
: Any Steve Hackett fans out there??  I know that he also plays hard rock
: and other things but I love his classical records BAY OF KINGS and 
: MOMENTUM the most....
: 
: highly recommended!!
: 
: K. Cater.
: 
: e-mail:"kjc7435@ritvax.isc.rit.edu".

I totally agree with you.  My fave Hackett track is cavalcanti (sp?), the first
track on Momentum.  When the flute comes in it makes the hair on the backof my
neck stand on end.  Sheer Brilliance.

Mark
--
+---------------------------+------------------+------------------------------+
| Mark Allison,             | All opinions     |                              |
| Crosfield Electronics Ltd | expressed are my | E-mail :       mia@cel.co.uk |
| UK                        | own, and are not | Voice  :  (0442) 230000x4121 |
|                           | necessarily      | Int'l  : +44 442 230000x4121 |
|                           | those held by    | Fax    :       (0442) 232301 |
|                           | my employer.     |                              |
+---------------------------+------------------+------------------------------+
| "There is a theory which states that if anyone ever discovers exactly what  |
| the universe is for, and why it is here, it will instantly disappear and    |
| be replaced by something even more bizarrely inexplicable.  There is        |
| another theory which states that this has already happened!"                |
|                                        -The Hitchhikers Guide to the Galaxy |
+-----------------------------------------------------------------------------+
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical.guitar
From: andersmh@ucsu.Colorado.EDU (ANDERSON  MIKE HOWARD)
Subject: Re: Flamenco: doing golpes on a classical guitar
Organization: University of Colorado, Boulder
Distribution: usa
Date: Wed, 11 Nov 1992 20:37:06 GMT

In article <1992Nov11.175459.14277@cs.rochester.edu> steyn@cs.rochester.edu (Gavin Steyn) writes:
>
>I've started fooling around with flamenco music, but I'm not serious
>enough to want to buy a flamenco guitar.
>
>Currently, I've been doing golpes onto and index card that I've taped
>to the body of the guitar, but this is, to say the least, inelegant
>and iconvenient :-(.  I've heard that there are plastic thingies you
>can attach to the guitar, and I've got a couple of questions:
>
>1) Do golpes on an unprotected guitar hurt it (except for resale value,
>which this guitar doesn't really have, anyway).
>
>2) Do the plastic thingies hurt in any way?
>
>3) If the answers to both of the above are no, which is a better
>solution?
>
>Thanks,
>
>Gavin Steyn
>steyn@cs.rochester.edu
>"So he's had the lifelong ambition of reversing the polarity of the earth?"


Golpes on an unprotected guitar will cause a lot of damage to the
finish and eventually put a hole in your guitar.  The plastic thingies
are permanent.  The one I put on my guitar still has alowed some damage
to accur because the grain is getting pressed down where I hit the 
cedar.  I am going to put on another layer.  I somewhat regret what
has happened to the finish but the damage is mostly cosmetic.  My
classical is a Yairi (Asturias ?) worth about 800 dollars.  I wouldn't
advise playing flamenco on guitars worth more unless you are willing to
commit and put on a thick plastic guard.

Mike
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical.guitar
From: wjh@cbnewsl.cb.att.com (william.j.hery)
Subject: Re: Classical CDs - any suggestions?
Organization: AT&T
Date: Sun, 8 Nov 1992 03:06:00 GMT

>Right on.  I've been looking for "Julian and John, Live" on CD for
>years.  I have the double album and it's in really ify shape.  Anybody
>seen this in the stores?

Not in the US, but I did see a couple of different Bream/Williams
collaborations on CD in Amsterdam about 5 years ago. They were on RCA,
and I didn't buy them because the prices of CDs there was about double
what I was paying in the US, and I was hoping that RCA would also release
them in the US. As far as I know, they haven't done so yet.

Bill Hery
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical.guitar
From: mr@delfin.com (Mark Rosenberg)
Subject: Practice Tips for Busy Amateurs?
Summary: Request for advice on what to play, how to play it, and how much time to spend
Organization: Delfin Systems, Sunnyvale, CA.
X-Newsreader: Tin 1.1 PL4
Date: Tue, 10 Nov 1992 17:10:14 GMT

This group is great! It's frequented by everyone from pre-beginners to
teachers and concert performers. I bet a lot of the people in this
group are like myself - somewhere in the middle. I'd love to get some
advice on how to make effective and enjoyable use of what little time
I currently have for playing. What with my non-music career, a 3
year-old son, and other domestic duties, I'm doing well if I can get 1
hour/day of playing in.

I've been playing off and on for quite a long time now (25 years)and
have, at one time or another, had music like the Bach Chaconne,
Prelude from the 1st Cello Suite, VL Etude #1, various Sor studies and
several Weiss Preludes in my rather technically unrefined repertoire.
Most of my formal training, and concentrated and disciplined practice
took place 20 years ago. Since then I've played exclusively for
enjoyment - I went through a phase about 5 years ago where all I did
was sight read from the Bellow Renaissance Music collections and some
of the easiest collections of Sor studies. When I was more serious,
I used to warm-up with Segovia scales and the Tarrega tremolo study before
proceeding to work on my repertoire.

Thats the background. Now for the question. Suppose I've got 1 hour
per day to play and I'd like to clean up my technique but still have
fun playing real music. How should I split my time between technical
exercises and working on pieces? Are there any good alternatives to
Segovia scales? What about dissecting pieces to isolate scales and
other passage work to use as exercises?

Any ideas will be greatly appreciated.

--
Mark Rosenberg
internet:mark@delfin.com
phone: (408) 562-1126	fax: (408) 748-1140
snail: Delfin Systems, 3000 Patrick Henry Drive, Santa Clara, CA 95054-1814
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical.guitar
From: alopez-o@neumann.uwaterloo.ca (Alex Lopez-Ortiz)
Subject: Re: Advice from Segovia
Organization: University of Waterloo
Date: Sat, 7 Nov 1992 20:41:08 GMT

In article <1992Nov5.214407.7548@cerritos.edu>, radams@cerritos.edu
writes:
> In article <Bx9qn2.Mpr@math.uwaterloo.ca>, 
> alopez-o@neumann.uwaterloo.ca (Alex Lopez-Ortiz) writes:
> 
> > In article <COLWELL.92Nov4215359@pdx023.world>, colwell@pdx023.world
> > (Robert Colwell) writes:
> >> 
> >> Next you'll be telling me you don't like Carlos Barbosa-Lima.
> > 
> > There's a player that cannot be criticized of being to technical. :-)
> > 
> > 
> > Alex
> > 
> > p.s. For those of you that don't know much about guitars and think
> that
> > Williams is the best and the like let me explain that Barbosa-Lima had
> > little if any formal training, and he positions the right hand in one
> of
> > the most unconventional ways amongst professional guitar players. :-) 
> :-)
> > 
> 
> I saw Carlos Barbosa-Lima live in Orange County several months ago and I
> find him to be quite an entertaining guitarist. Yes his right hand
> technique
> is unconventional and it looks a bit strained and may cost him some day.
> He plays very well though and has a great arrangement of "Sounds of
> Bells" by Pernambuco which has a lot of counterpoint that he added.  His
> persona is what makes him worth hearing. He does not have technique like
> a Williams, but don't underestimate him - some of the arrangements he
> does, like the preludes of Gershwin are difficult and I think most
> guitarists
> would not feel comfortable at all playing some of his arrangements.

By no means I underestimated him. I just pointed he's not a technical
player.

> He
> has a lot of facility and stretching ability in his left hand. But best
> of
> all is his obvious love of the guitar and his pleasure in performing
> which
> he communicates to the audience.  I would definitely recommend hearing
> him if you have not done so.

Definitely, he's a natural.  He also has a wide repertory of modern
classical mussic. Unfortunately I saw him for the last time in 1981 :-(


Alex

-- 
Alex Lopez-Ortiz                              alopez-o@maytag.UWaterloo.ca
Department of Computer Science                      University of Waterloo
Waterloo, Ontario                                                   Canada
From: basinski@biosci.arizona.edu (Mark Basinski)
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical.guitar
Subject: Re: String Tension (Was Re: Kohno Classical)
Date: 12 Nov 92 20:16:04 GMT
Followup-To: rec.music.classical.guitar
Organization: Univ. of Arizona

In article <1992Nov11.174026.17853@jarvis.csri.toronto.edu>,
elf@dgp.toronto.edu (Eugene Fiume) wrote:
> I discovered this without the aid of a teacher (which is why I disagree
> with Mark to some extent).  My first teacher in fact recommended all
> hand pressure, which was a losing strategy for me.  My second teacher
> agreed with my "discovery".
>
	 Just goes to show that simply because someone offers guitar lessons, you
don't really know what to expect. Guitar technique is still developing,
and there are still many conflicting viewpoints; moreover, different people
have different physical characteristics, so what works for one person may
have to be adjusted substantially to work for someone else. 

 It is a problem finding a good teacher. The first lesson I ever had was
to "put you pinky down on the guitar face and leave it there..." which
is ok for some styles (and that was a part of lute technique for
centuries),
but has been abandoned by modern classical guitar technique.

 You can learn guitar on your own, but a good teacher is an invaluable
aid, if only you can find one.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Mark Basinski      Internet: basinski@biosci.arizona.edu
From: radams@cerritos.edu
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical.guitar
Subject: Re: How do I play my tremolo loUDER?
Date: 10 Nov 92 01:47:49 GMT
Organization: Cerritos College, Norwalk CA

In article <1992Nov9.183716.3835@odin.corp.sgi.com>, 
lmcgee@bondo.corp.sgi.com (Lee McGee) writes:

> Whew!  After two years of (admittedly occasional) practice, I can 
> finally play "Recuerdos De La Alhambra" all the way through, with 
> musicality and some dynamics, even.  <brag, brag>
> 
> But, it's so darned soft that only I can hear it!
> 
> How can I improve the strength and volume of my right-hand tremolo?  
> I have a good, loud guitar (M. Hirade), so that's not really the problem.   
> Any hints for practice will be appreciated and TRIED!
> 

Practice the piece very slow with a very solid, round, projecting tone.
Keep doing this until it becomes solid enough then you can gradually
increase speed. The key is slow practice. 



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
	Roger Adams
	radams@cerritos.edu               To those in whom love dwells,
	Cerritos College                  the whole world is one family.
	11110 Alondra Blvd                             A Hindu Proverb
        Norwalk, California 90650
	USA        		          292 Dwapara :-)
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical.guitar
From: wjin@cs.uh.edu (W. Woody Jin)
Subject: String Tension (Was Re: Kohno Classical)
Organization: University of Houston
Date: Mon, 9 Nov 1992 09:02:55 GMT

In article <1992Nov4.162009.10706@newscan.canada.sun.com> jeff@canada.sun.com writes:
>although I am no afficiando, I would characterize these strings as
>tonally "bright/crisp/clean" with excellent longevity. I prefer the
>super-high tension to the high tension as they solve the sloppy 
>G string problem I have on my guitar. 
>

I have not tried Hannabach's Super-High Tension.
And I would like to know how hard it is to grab Cejas continuously
using such super high tension strings (compared with med/high).
My hand is not that large, and I have trouble in grabbing
continuous Cejas even using Med tension Strings (like Augustine Red).
Especially, in Estudio Brillante's 
C7-C5-C2-C5-C7-C3-C9-C9-C2 sequence and Bach's Unacompanied Celo Suite III
Prelude's  C4(7)-C2(2) sequence. Not only I cannot continue the whole
sequence at a time, but also I feel pain in my left hand after I finish.
This is why I still stick to Med Tension.
Would super high tension strings affect grabbing Cejas ?
If so, how much ?

-- 
____   ____  ____ ____________________________________ (___) _________________
|  |   |  |  |  |  W. Woody Jin (wjin@cs.uh.edu)       (o o)      Moo.... 
|  |   |  |__|  |  PhD Student. Research Asst.  o=======\ /  I'm  a Cow Lover.
|  |   |        |  Dept. of Computer Science   / |     ||O   My wife  was born
\  |---|  |--|  |  University of Houston      `  ||'---||    in Cow year. Mooo
 \____/|__|  |__| _______________________________^^    ^^_____________________

Newsgroups: rec.music.classical.guitar