From: ted@welchgate.welch.jhu.edu (Ted Ying)
Subject: Re: recession-what recession????
Keywords: developers,jobs
Organization: Johns Hopkins Univ. Welch Medical Library
Date: Fri, 10 Apr 1992 16:00:22 GMT

In article <1992Apr9.190513.23972@igor.tamri.com> donb@igor.tamri.com (Don Baldwin) writes:
>In article <1992Apr8.191616.1049@fmrco.uucp> sy18337@fmrco.COM (Terry Traub)
>writes:
>>It seems to me there's an inordinate amount of complaining going on
>>about "promises" and the like.  It's as though some people feel that
>>they deserve nice, prestigious jobs immediately upon graduation.
>>Perhaps people in engineering programs do; I don't know.  But I do
>>know that in the real world you have to start small and work your way
>>up.  Maybe I did it the hard way and missed something, but my gut
>>feeling tells me that the hard way is the only way.
>
>I haven't heard anyone asking for a prestigious entry-level job; the
>posts I've seen have been from people looking for just about ANY job in
>their field.
>
	This is one of the problems.  Many people don't think about the state
	of the current job market.  In the current job market there is an
	excess of employable people and a shortage of appropriate jobs.  This
	makes it a buyers market for employers.

	The problem is that first these entry-level types are looking for
	good positions within the field.  When those run out, they look
	for any positions within the field.  And then they get discouraged
	if those don't pan out either.  When you are looking for work, you
	should be willing to go out of your field, but you should always keep
	your goal in mind.  I've known a number of friends who have taken jobs
	as either full-time or temp secretaries and through helping out on
	local computer tasks, have been recognized to have good computer
	programming/administration skills and ultimately used this as a step
	up.  I've known someone who hired on as computer operator (unskilled
	position) to get his foot in the door of the computer field and is now
	working as a system administrator.  I've known people who starting by
	taking small Mickey Mouse programming contractual work (doing small PC
	databases isn't very difficult) and used this to get more serious
	contracts and then more serious work.

>In 1982, I graduated from a university in Upstate NY with a BS in
>Mathematics and two years of experience as a programming work-study in
>my school's Administrative Computer Center.  You'd think I'd have a good
>shot at a programming job but I spent five months looking high and low
>for a job, before I found one loading stock in a department store.  Three
>months later, a good friend gave me a lead into a third shift Operator's
>job; a year and a half later, I received an offer of an engineering job
>here in the Bay Area...and that's my story.
>
	Right...you got in at the bottom and worked your way up.  This is what
	you have to do in this market.

>Mind you, the job market's much worse now, than it was in 1982.  I don't
>resent the wasted months and effort anymore but I don't feel that it was
>a "character-building" period either.  It was a waste.  And if companies
>would give new graduates a chance to work, even for really shitty pay,
>I sincerely feel that everybody would be much better off.
>
	Unfortunately, companies are not in it for the altruistic "greater
	good".  They are in it for the near and long term benefits and since
	that sort of greater good will only work in the long run *IF* many
	companies initiate it, no one company is willing to start.

	It's a shame, but that's what this market it all about...learning to
	fight against the system and succeeding despite the hardships.

	Ted Ying			ted@welch.jhu.edu

#include <std.disclaimer.h>

	Tommy Thrush: "Captain Buffalo, I'm hungry, can we eat now?"
	Captain Buffalo: "Well, alright Tommy, how about here?  They
		have a special on Buffalo Wings."
	Tommy: "Can I get the Mud-pie?  It comes with a special Mudman
		action figure!"
	Captain Buffalo: "Hmmmm...."
Newsgroups: misc.jobs.misc