From: fernee@newton.physics.uq.oz.au (Mark Fernee)
Subject: Re: Necronomicon -EXPLAINED-
Organization: Physics Dept. The University of Queensland
Date: Sun, 4 Oct 1992 08:26:40 GMT


First of all to the group alt.horror; The --Judex-- vs Mark. debate has been fun.

To all who have enjoyed this debacle; Glad to oblige.

To all who believed I was serious; Sorry, but have you read Gullibles travels? :^)

My first post in the series contained a fish hook in .sig. 
I guess I got a nibble.

Now then:


In article <BvIFGx.FGE@inews.Intel.COM>, mdouglas@cad067.NoSubdomain.NoDomain (Maria Douglas ~) writes:
|> 
|> -- 
|> Oh, brother!  Sorry, but being the Type-A, analyst that I am, I have to punch holes
|> in this conspiracy theory like an awl through kleenex...so I'm using Mark's argument
|> (nothing personal, Mark!).  This conspiracy theory is just so much mental masturbation,

NO insult taken, but some amusement! (if conspiracy theory is mental masturbation, then
I'll have to try it.)

|> as the reader will see, devoid of anything to which the intelligent mind can grasp:

So people who see things your way are defined as intelligent? :^)

|> 
|> 	He (HPL), like many others who were privy to such
|> 	knowledge, was sworn to silence. This explains his apparent denials concerning
|> 	the existance of such that he wrote about.
|> 
|> This is a logical fallicy.  There are many possible reasons why Lovecraft (or anyone
|> else) would make these denials, but it does not logically follow that they are
|> *necessarily* the result of some oath or such.  Therefore, this statement is not
|> necessarily true.  (Subjectively, I feel this piece of conjecture is the result of
|> mental gymnastics.)

Given the first statement (that he was sworn to silence) is true, then this *could* 
explain his denials. No obvious logical flaws there ( even though I did make it up)

If physical gymnasts have great bodies, does it follow then that mental gymnasts have
great minds?

|> 
|> 	By selling his work as *fiction*
|> 	he was able to disseminate portions of his secret archane knowledge.
|> 
|>a) This is flagrant conjecture, as well.  b) What evidence do you have?  c) Judex points
|> this out,
|> and you deftly sidestep the obvious lack of evidence. d)  Without evidence, there isn't
|> much
|> of a case for the thinking person. e) It's one thing to be "open-minded," evaluating
|> evidence
|> provided, and it's another thing to be "GULLIBLE," accepting arguments as true without
|> ANY evidence. f) You ask your readers to be gullible, which is an insult.

answers: a) Yes  b) None  c) That's how you bait people  d) I would have thought so
e) I absolutely agree  f) I didn't ask anybody to be gullible, taking my arguement
seriously requires them to be gullible. Many others enjoyed it. :^)

|> 
|> 	This *secret* knowledge is not as secret as you obviously believe. Throughout
|> 	the centuries there have been many stories, myths and legends, all of which
|> 	have some common thread. Many cultures have a flood myth. Again there are 
|> 	similar tales of an armageddon (outa here). Atlantis etc....
|> 	Much of these speak of great catastrophys, ancient civilizations and malevolent
|> 	gods. These threads were thoroughly correllated by the alchemists and magicians
|> 	of recent history...
|> 
|> Many people, in particular Joseph Campbell, have recorded the world's myths, finding 
|> "threads."  If Joseph Campbell is not one of the people to whom you are referring, then
|> everything you say is still conjecture because you have not provided referrences.  Assertions
|> do not stand up on their own; they beg reference and data. 

I have to assert as I have no real data, just a flirtile imagination.
 
|> 
|> 	The paranormal and supernatural are common place in our society. Only you
|> 	choose not to see it. Such evidence as this should surely convince you 
|> 	that all is definitely not as society would have it seem. The conspiracy
|> 	lies not with HPL and those with arcane/alternative knowledge, but with
|> 	our society, which is inturn controlled by multinational corporations.
|> 
|> Herein lies another logical fallicy that does not address Judex's request for data.
|> In fact, here you make a double-assertion: the first is that Judex, or anyone else who does not
|> believe what you say *sans* evidence will not believe the evidence.  If such evidence
|> were presented, and it is as convincing as you say, then PRESENT IT, DAMMIT, OR SHUT
|> UP!  

OK! Shall I FAX you a picture of my bottom?

|> 
|> The second assertion is that Judex does not even believe in the paranormal and supernatural.
|> To assume that someone does or does not believe in the supernatural simply be-
|> cause they do not GULLIBLY accept *a particular* statement as fact without evidence is 
|> not a logically sound conclusion.  It is also another diversionary tactic.  

Diversion is the name of the game, here.

|> 
|> 	Remember, the nature of a conspiracy is such that it is hidden from view.
|> 
|> And the nature of a logical fallicy is that it is all too plain to see...
|> 
|> I think I've made my point.
|> 
|> Maria
|> --
|> Maria E. Douglas	(408) 765-4728		    
|> Intel Corporation	mdouglas@cadev6.intel.com  
|> 
|> "Boy, I don't know what that thar Space Mead is,
|> 	but ahhhhl drink it!"
|> 
|> 		Jake Barlow,
|> 		Bounty Hunter and Cthulhoid Investigator
|> 
|> Intel did not teach me to think this way, nor am I representing the corp. (hurray!)
   ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Thank God. I may still buy their products. :^)


Seriously Maria, you didn't just attack my conspiracy theory thread. You did
attack me. I take no offence and this is not a flame, just a light hearted
explanation of things. However, I did find some of your logic a little dubious,
and you otherwise state the obvious. It seems that the rest of the crew (in our
ship of life) were a little less affected than yourself.

An apology to anyone who has been offended. I never intend to offend or presume
a low level of intelligence upon anyone. I am far from perfect (horribly so) and
so am not fit to cast judgements upon others. 

Alt.horror is a great group, and sometimes it is FAB to have a little fun.
Don't you agree?

Mark. 

(Hey cheer up! We're all in this together.)




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