HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: johne@PROBLEM_WITH_INEWS_GATEWAY_FILE (John Eaton)
Subject: Re: NJ Inspectors invade PA and NY
Date: Tue, 26 Jan 1993 00:07:03 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: Hewlett-Packard VCD
X-Newsreader: Tin 1.1 PL5

Steve Tobias (tobias@oasys.dt.navy.mil) wrote:
: 
: how would PA and NY drivers registering in NJ
: cost NJ drivers money? If anything, I would think NJ would benefit
: from increased registration fee income. 
-----------
Sounds pretty weird. Wa and Oregon have a similar problem with Wa residents
saving money by registring cars in Or. But it is the Wa cops who are after
them. BTW: Wa has a "Fink on your Neighbor" program to report folks who are
cheating. If you have Oregon plates you better not throw loud parties.

John Eaton
!hp-vcd!johne


Newsgroups: alt.privacy
From: geoff@ficus.cs.ucla.edu (Geoffrey Kuenning)
Subject: Re: Op-ed piece on telephone Caller ID
Organization: UCLA, Computer Science Department
Date: Fri, 22 Jan 93 19:29:25 GMT

In article <1jo0u5INN35a@usenet.INS.CWRU.Edu> cs737@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (John B. Baron) writes:

> What is ANI?

Automatic Number Identification.  It's Caller-ID for 800 lines, I think.
It was put in place some years ago, without public review.

> Did you *specifically request* that your *first* number be published?
> The way I remember, one has to pay *extra* to have a number *unlisted*,
> whether it is your first line of your tenth.

I think there are two types: unlisted and unpublished.  By default (at
least where I live), extra lines are unpublished free of charge, but
unlisted costs extra.  The difference is that unpublished numbers
aren't in the basic directory everyone gets but are available in such
things as street-address directories sold to businesses.  Unlisted
numbers are more secret, and don't appear anywhere.  (BTW, I just
called information, and they only have my published number.  I
specifically asked for extra lines, and they said they only had the
first.)

> Do you mean to say that telemarketers won't just dial in sequence every
> number with a given prefix?

Sequential dialing is illegal in many places, perhaps all (I don't
remember if there's a Federal law) and I've read that phone companies
have software in place to detect it.  This was put in place after some
idiot telemarketer tied up important emergency lines with sequential
dialing.  Of course it's not hard to keep a bitmap of what you've
called and dial randomly.  But I think most telemarketers use a
street-address directory, because I've had the experience of having
several (non-sequentially-numbered) phones ring in sequence with the
same junk phone call.
-- 
	Geoff Kuenning	geoff@maui.cs.ucla.edu	geoff@ITcorp.com
From: palmer@icat.larc.nasa.gov (Michael T. Palmer)
Newsgroups: alt.privacy
Subject: Re: Anti-privacy is Anti-Caller ID)
Date: 27 Jan 93 17:33:16 GMT
Organization: NASA Langley Research Center, Hampton, VA  USA
Distribution: usa
NNTP-Posting-Host: icat.larc.nasa.gov

nates@ll.mit.edu ( Nate Smith) writes:

>In article <1993Jan27.020954.784@samba.oit.unc.edu> Terry.Parks@launchpad.unc.edu (Terry Parks) writes:

>>Hey Rip, wake up! This is done regardless of Caller ID. Except that with
>>Caller ID, one can render such information useless. If you want to be
>>private, don't call me!

>ahah - you think that Step 1 of Caller ID has already been accomplished.
>this means you are a clone of Glenn Cooley.  Step 1 has been done in the
>areas that already have Caller ID, and the 1-800, 1-900, 1-976 exchanges.

Aha!  So I'm not the only one who recognizes the reincarnation of Glenn
Cooley.  At the risk of sounding disrespectful, many of us way back decided
that Glenn Cooley really didn't exist; rather, it was all done by glenn.c,
which was a program that would ignore all input except certain keywords,
which would be spit back out with a trailing message "Then don't call me!"

Terry, please recognize that other people have different lifestyles than
you do, and have more responsibilities (like kids) than you do.  I, too, used
to think that a ringing telephone has no inherent "right" to be answered.
But now that most of my friends have children, I can see how totally wrong
that attitude is for *them*.  You never know who might honestly (and URGENTLY)
need to get in touch with you, so Caller-ID does nothing to protect your
privacy.

Much better solutions are being proposed in this forum; why can't you
acknowledge that at least SOME of these ideas would give you the same level
of the kind of privacy YOU want, while protecting the kind of privacy that
OTHERS want?  I, for one, don't care if Caller-ID is implemented everywhere
as long as free per-line blocking is available.  How does this diminish the
value of Caller-ID to you?  You wouldn't answer the phone either way!

-- 
Michael T. Palmer         |  "A man is crazy who writes a secret in any
m.t.palmer@larc.nasa.gov  |   other way than one which will conceal it
RIPEM key on server       |   from the vulgar." - Roger Bacon
From: foo@drycas.club.cc.cmu.edu (Pine View Alumni '80)
Newsgroups: alt.privacy
Subject: Computerworld/SSN Use/What is Privacy??
Date: 21 Jan 93 17:36:14 -0500
Followup-To: alt.privacy
Organization: Carnegie Mellon Computer Club

In article <218@complex.complex.is>, frisk@complex.is (Fridrik Skulason) writes:
> 
> In article <93020.095246MBADBH@rohvm1.rohmhaas.com> David B. Horvath, CDP <MBADBH@rohvm1.rohmhaas.com> writes:
>>I saw the included ad in Computerworld January 18, 1993, page
>>85 - the Computer Careers section.  They want your SSN before
>>they even talk to you.  What for?
> 
> Now, this may seem like a silly question to some of you, but....
> 
>    ...why are so many people in the US opposed to the use of a single
>    personal identification number, which would be used by everybody - all
>    companies and government organizations ?
>
     stuff deleted... 
> 
> Now, the US SSN and the TIN (taxpayers ISD number, right ?) are the closest
> thing to this the US has, but they don't seem nearly as widely used as our
> ID-number - it is on my credit card, my heating bill, as well as serving the
> same purposes as the US SSN and the TIN.....
> 
> So, why hasn't a similar number been adopted in the US...?
> 
> -frisk
> -- 
> --
> Fridrik Skulason      Frisk Software International     phone: +354-1-694749
> Author of F-PROT      E-mail: frisk@complex.is         fax:   +354-1-28801


Frisk,

This may sound hard to believe.. but to Americans.. the idea of a NUMBER
uniquely identifying you is something that MOST would not want to even
consider.  It is difficult to explain, but the concept has alot to do with
our idea of individual freedom and what that entails.  TRUE FREEDOM means that
as long as you are minding your business and abiding by the law, you should
NOT have to account to anyone but yourself.  Not the government, not anyone
connected with them.  It is a historical fact that when people were IDENTIFIED
in a group (as in the gathering of Jews in the Holocaust or the Japanese in
the US during WWII) it was MUCH easier to find them.. wasn't it???  So to
Americans.. the concept of NO uniquely identifying piece of information that
can READILY be cross-referenced by someone is a good one.  Here it is true
that when the Social Security number became a necessary evil for the SSA
to keep track of everyone.. it was said that it would not become a part of 
our everyday lives... but here it is today.. and sadly it has.  You have to
have it to conduct many financial and personal transactions, and each day
our privacy is in danger of disappearing.

I have found that many non-US residents question our constant WORRY and
hatred of the SSN since many are used to the same national type of numbers
you mention (which of course also verify things like social medicine benefits
and citizenship), but the fact is.. that to us.. it is one step closer to
being JUST A NUMBER instead of a person who has certain rights.  One of those
rights being that to live in peace with respect, dignity AND PRIVACY.

Hope this clears it up.. sorry for the longish post.

foo@drycas.club.cc.cmu.edu
From: zzassgl@uts.mcc.ac.uk (Geoff Lane)
Newsgroups: alt.privacy
Subject: Re: Job ad from Computerworld - want SSN/drug test
Date: 22 Jan 93 13:33:21 GMT
Organization: Manchester Computing Centre, Manchester, England, M13 9PL.

In article <1993Jan21.054737.24968@bradley.bradley.edu> dave@bradley.bradley.edu (David Vessell) writes:
>normal citizens like you and me don't normally get access to these
>databases, and as quite a few consumers' advocacy groups have shown, a lot
>of this information is wrong, and it can be a real pain in the ass to have
>this information corrected.  Wrong information can wreak havoc on one's
>life, especially from a financial perspective.
>


As this is probably either libel or slander (depending on how the bad info
is passed about) I would have thought it would have been an ideal hunting
ground for a huge class action by a keen young lawyer.


-- 
Geoff. Lane. | Internet: zzassgl@uts.mcc.ac.uk | Janet: zzassgl@uk.ac.mcc.uts
UTS Sys Admin,  Manchester Computing Centre,  Oxford Rd,  Manchester, M13 9PL
Exactly who makes the Tannoy announcements in M*A*S*H?  It can't be Radar
and there is never anyone else in the office.  (This refers to `classic'
M*A*S*H of course, not M*A*S*H*Lite with all the Radar removed at source.)
Xref: sparky alt.privacy:3043 alt.drugs:21308 misc.jobs.misc:8874
From: kaplan@sol1.lrsm.upenn.edu (Peter Kaplan -Yodh)
Newsgroups: alt.privacy,alt.drugs,misc.jobs.misc
Subject: Re: Job ad from Computerworld - want SSN/drug test
Date: 23 Jan 93 02:47:48 GMT
Followup-To: alt.privacy
Distribution: usa
Organization: Laboratory for Research on the Structure of Matter, University of Pennsylvania

In article <22JAN199313413281@nssdca.gsfc.nasa.gov> bwood@nssdca.gsfc.nasa.gov (William Wood) writes:
><*>  This is also interesting...  Does anyone have the address on the
>Medical Information Bureau??

I beleive that the address is in the SSN FAQ.  They do indeed release
files if you request them.  And I hope every American requests them
every year.

MIB Inc.
MIB Information Office
PO Box 105, Essex Station
Boston, MA  02112
(617) 426-3360

When I wrote to them they responded with a form.  The form went in and a
blank report came back.  huh?

--Peter (kaplan@sol1.lrsm.upenn.edu)
Newsgroups: alt.privacy
From: mcover@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (Mark Coverdill)
Subject: Re: Op-ed piece on telephone Caller ID
Organization: The Ohio State University
Distribution: usa
Date: Thu, 21 Jan 1993 22:42:53 GMT

In article <k2_sn!f@dixie.com> jgd@dixie.com (John De Armond) writes:
>kadie@cs.uiuc.edu (Carl M. Kadie) writes:
>
>
>>I have nothing against Caller ID, but I am sick of the antiprivacy
>>Caller ID people who insist on Caller ID with no blocking.
>
>>They say that blocking ruins Caller ID, but how is this so? If I block
>>my number and call your home, you can just ignore my call. (You can
>>tell it is blocked because *only* blocked calls will show up as "P" on
>>the display.) So, I don't block my calls to your home.
>
>>In other words with Caller ID *and* blocking, the caller and the
>>callee decide for themselves what information will be exchanged.  I
>>think this is much better than Caller ID w/ no blocking in where the
>>phone company decides.
>
>The only part missing is giving me the ability to automatically block
>incoming calls originating from caller*ID-blocked lines.  Given 
>that, we are in full agreement.  I currently implement that policy 
>administratively by observing the caller*ID box and not answering
>blocked calls.  What I really want is for the ringer to never actuate
>if the caller*ID is blocked.

Somebody may have mentioned it before but here is my method for
avoiding unwanted calls. Get *two* phone lines.

Put an answering machine on the first line. This number will get
published in the telco book. Use it to call business's, etc that can
get your number anyway just by looking in the book or using ANI. Turn
off the ringer if you want. Call screen if you like.

Give out the second line's number to family and friends. It will not
be published in the telco book unless you specifically request it. If
it rings you will *probably* know it is someone you want to talk to.
If it isn't you can really get upset and find out how they got your
number. If you don't answer than the calling party can assume you are
*really* not home.

This may be a bit more expensive solution (but you have to pay for Caller
ID too) but I tend to tie up the phone line for many *hours* on the
modem (telemarketers hate busy signals, he he). I use the first line
and my wife can talk to family and friends on the second line. Also I
don't have to pay for call waiting and such. It is worth it to avoid
unwanted calls.

-- 
Mark Coverdill                                 The Ohio State University
Internet: markc+@osu.edu                              Columbus, Ohio
Xref: sparky alt.privacy:3031 alt.drugs:21283 misc.jobs.misc:8861
From: klee@wsl.dec.com (Ken Lee)
Newsgroups: alt.privacy,alt.drugs,misc.jobs.misc
Subject: Re: Job ad from Computerworld - want SSN/drug test
Date: 22 Jan 1993 18:14:10 GMT
Organization: DEC Western Software Laboratory
Distribution: world
Reply-To: klee@wsl.dec.com
NNTP-Posting-Host: alhambra.pa.dec.com

In article <1jltqfINNi4b@matt.ksu.ksu.edu>, kkruse@matt.ksu.ksu.edu (Korey J. Kruse) writes:
|> Actually many companies now require SSN #'s before they make a hiring
|> decision. 

What kinds of companies are these?  I've worked for several companies
over the years and have received offers from many more.  I've never
been asked for a SSN until after starting work.

-- 
Ken Lee
DEC Western Software Laboratory, Palo Alto, Calif.
Internet: klee@wsl.dec.com
uucp: uunet!decwrl!klee
Xref: sparky alt.privacy:3085 misc.taxes:4307
Newsgroups: alt.privacy,misc.taxes
Subject: Re: NJ Inspectors invade PA and NY - missing details
From: David B. Horvath, CDP <MBADBH@rohvm1.rohmhaas.com>
Date: Tue, 26 Jan 1993 09:29:45 EST
Reply-To: dhorvath@mail.sas.upenn.edu
Organization: Hidden - I don't speak for them...
X-Stuff:      <This should be witty, but I'm too tired right now.>

A few more details that I didn't think were that important:

While NJ insurance rates are high, they tend to be lower than Philadelphia
or NYC.  Registering in another state may also have insurance benefits if
the person has serious tickets in their home state (PA/NY) but not in the
other state (NJ).  Insurance would be more expensive in PA/NY because of
the visibility of tickets to the insurance company - but not in NJ since
the NJ State DMV would report 'no tickets'.

Many people register their cars at the homes of relatives, friends, or
even summer homes (used 3 months of the year - or rented out as an
investment).  That's how they get the NJ address.

While NJ may have more income via registrations, it also assumes more
liability.  Apparently, the state has gotten stuck with bailing out the
"bad-drivers" insurance fund several times over the past decade.  That
costs tax dollars; each non-NJ tax payer who registers their car in the
state is theoretically costing the tax payers money.

   - David
Newsgroups: alt.privacy,alt.drugs,misc.jobs.misc
From: jgd@dixie.com (John De Armond)
Subject: Re: Job ad from Computerworld - want SSN/drug test
Date: Thu, 21 Jan 93 06:15:07 GMT
Organization: Dixie Communications Public Access.  The Mouth of the South.

bell@cs.tamu.edu (Will Bell) writes:

>In article <93020.095246MBADBH@rohvm1.rohmhaas.com> David B. Horvath, CDP <MBADBH@rohvm1.rohmhaas.com> writes:
>>I saw the included ad in Computerworld January 18, 1993, page
>>85 - the Computer Careers section.  They want your SSN before
>>they even talk to you.  What for?

>Guesses:

More likely they're paying some private dick agency to do a background
check on you before calling you in for an interview.

Even more reason to stay away from the pricks.

John
-- 
John De Armond, WD4OQC               |Interested in high performance mobility?  
Performance Engineering Magazine(TM) | Interested in high tech and computers? 
Marietta, Ga                         | Send ur snail-mail address to 
jgd@dixie.com                        | perform@dixie.com for a free sample mag
Need Usenet public Access in Atlanta?  Write Me for info on Dixie.com.
From: 00cchall@leo.bsuvc.bsu.edu (Chael Hall)
Newsgroups: alt.privacy
Subject: Re: SSN's - Challenge
Date: 26 Jan 93 03:29:13 GMT
Followup-To: alt.privacy
Organization: Ball State University, Muncie, In - Univ. Computing Svc's

In article <C16tuI.EIp@NCoast.ORG>, smith@NCoast.ORG (Phil Smith) writes:

> Answer: post your SSN and someone will post all
> the info found as a demo for you.

     I'm game.  Anyone who thinks they can get loads of information on
me with just my name and my SSN send E-mail to one of the accounts
listed below with the subject line "I Know Where You Live."  I will
choose a few (if there are a lot of responses) and check the validity
of the results.  I also want to know where you look for your info for
those who send to me.

Chael Hall

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Chael Hall, University Computing Services, Ball State University, Muncie, IN
                          "I hate it when that happens!"
00CCHALL@LEO.BSUVC.BSU.EDU   nowhere@bsu-cs.bsu.edu   CHALL@clsv.charon.bsu.edu
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
From: cs737@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (John B. Baron)
Newsgroups: alt.privacy
Subject: Re: License plates make you safer
Date: 25 Jan 1993 07:30:09 GMT
Organization: Case Western Reserve University, Cleveland, Ohio (USA)
NNTP-Posting-Host: thor.ins.cwru.edu


sean@cobra.dra.com writes (Sean Donelan):
 
 
> Oh, by the way, I hope you don't get run over by
> a U.S. Postal truck.  They don't have to [have] any
> license plates on their vehicles.
 
Take another look.  You'll see a vehicle ID number on it.
 
> There are many sides to every issue.  No system so
> perfect that it couldn't use some improvement.
 
I do agree.
From: trsnyder@mcs.drexel.edu (Bob Snyder)
Newsgroups: alt.privacy
Subject: Re: Op-ed piece on telephone Caller ID
Date: 22 Jan 93 13:35:45 GMT
	<1993Jan20.010456.20340@samba.oit.unc.edu> <C14sKI.I8n@cs.uiuc.edu>
	<k2_sn!f@dixie.com>
Distribution: usa
Organization: ASCI

>>>>> "John" == John De Armond <jgd@dixie.com> writes:

John> The only part missing is giving me the ability to automatically block
John> incoming calls originating from caller*ID-blocked lines.  Given 
John> that, we are in full agreement.  I currently implement that policy 
John> administratively by observing the caller*ID box and not answering
John> blocked calls.  What I really want is for the ringer to never actuate
John> if the caller*ID is blocked.

Look in Sears' big catalog.  They have a caller ID unit which will route all
incoming blocked calls to a message stating that Blocked calls aren't accepted.
Also has 50 number memory, does names if your telco supports it...  I haven't
used it myself, but it looks quite nice, and at apx. $80, not too much
different than what Bell Atlantic sold me my puny little display for. :-)

Bob
From: randy@rls.UUCP (Randall L. Smith)
Newsgroups: alt.privacy
Subject: Re: Job ad from Computerworld - want SSN/drug test
Date: 22 Jan 93 15:12:02 GMT
Organization: The Internet

frisk@complex.is (Fridrik Skulason) writes:
> Now, the US SSN and the TIN (taxpayers ISD number, right ?) are the closest
> thing to this the US has, but they don't seem nearly as widely used as our
> ID-number - it is on my credit card, my heating bill, as well as serving the
> same purposes as the US SSN and the TIN.....
>
> So, why hasn't a similar number been adopted in the US...?

We in the US deeply distrust our government.  To most of us government
will primarily serve to take away freedoms and wealth.  The less
government to us, equals more freedom and more wealth.  

Freedom is equated to privacy in our Constitution.  With universal
identification, we lose our privacy (or freedom if you prefer), and
wealth.  Wealth is diminished due to increases in the role of the
government in our lives.  This approach may be hard to understand to
some people just as I find it hard to understand why anyone in any
country actually wants more and more government. 

Cheers!

- randy

<backbone>!mstar!rls!randy    rls!randy@mstar.com
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Don't think of organ donations as giving up part of yourself to keep a
total stranger alive.  It's really a total stranger giving up almost all
of themselves to keep part of you alive. 

Newsgroups: alt.privacy,alt.drugs,misc.jobs.misc
From: rjwade@rainbow.ecn.purdue.edu (Robert J. Wade)
Subject: email privacy laws
Organization: Purdue University Engineering Computer Network
Date: Thu, 21 Jan 1993 16:01:58 GMT


are their any federal or state laws protecting the privacy of email???
why are email software packages not including encryption options??
please send email since i don't always read this group regularly.
Xref: sparky alt.privacy:3105 misc.legal:23463
From: jfh@duke.cs.duke.edu (Fran Heidlage)
Newsgroups: alt.privacy,misc.legal
Subject: SSN and Information: legal question
Keywords: MIB credit
Date: 28 Jan 93 16:32:51 GMT
Followup-To: misc.legal
Distribution: usa
Organization: Duke University Computer Science Dept.; Durham, N.C.


	Recently there was a series of articles which discussed what a
	potential employer could do with a Social Security Number; the
	conclusion was that they most likely wanted to run a credit check
	and/or contact the Medical Information Bureau (MIB) to get data
	on the applicant.

	Now, when I apply for a credit card or a mortgage, I sign a form
	authorizing the holder to request information on me from the
	credit reporting agencies.  Similarly, when applying for insurance,
	I sign a form giving permission to check my data at MIB.

	Under what circumstances can a reporting agency give out information
	without such a signed release?  If, as I suspect, the answer is
	_any time they choose_, then why bother with release forms at all?
	How can I go about clarifying what the laws actually allow, and
	whether there is any remedy for abuses?

	Thanks

	Fran Heidlage
	jfh@cs.duke.edu
Newsgroups: alt.privacy,alt.drugs,misc.jobs.misc