From: Bill.Carlson@p0.f18.n104.z1.FIDONET.ORG (Bill Carlson)
Newsgroups: alt.messianic
Subject: What's In A Name?
Date: 13 Sep 92 01:22:07 GMT
Organization: FidoNet node 1:104/18.0 - Midrash, Denver CO


          -=> Quoting Robert A. Levene to Bill Carlson <=-
 RAL> From: levene@aplpy.jhuapl.edu (Robert A. Levene)
 RAL> Date: 10 Sep 92 16:26:01 GMT
 RAL> Organization: Johns Hopkins University
 RAL> Message-ID: <9209101625.AA29074@aplpy.jhuapl.edu>
 RAL> Newsgroups: alt.messianic
 
RAL> "Churches" may be derived from Greek, but it's a valid English
RAL> word as well.
    For those who go to them, I'm sure it is.
 
 RAL> Kindly explain how, despite not being Greek, you ("Messianic Jews
 RAL> [sic]") nevertheless list yourselves under "Synagogues -
 RAL> Messianic?" "Synagogues" is also a transliteration from Greek.
     Yes; but it is also a Judaic term.  We are Jewish, and come out
     of Synagogues, Shules, Congregations, Edot, and Temples.  We
     continue in a Judaic form of worship, so why should we suddenly
     want to call ourselves by a Genitle Christian term?  Synagogue
     is used in the Brit HaChadashah, so is Congregation, Edot.  So,
     we can choose whatever term we want that our fore-fathers
     used :-)

              -=> Quoting Robert A. Levene to Laura <=-
 RAL> Such as the Pauline advocacy of celibacy versus the Torah's
 RAL> celebration of marriage and family?
     Sha'ul says marriage is good.  The Qumran community used to be
     spoken of as a non-marrying community too.  Now it is seen that
     they indeed did marry, but discouraged it thinking times of
     distress were coming, the time of Ya'akov's trouble.  Sha'ul
     also noted the bad times, but gives much instruction to parents,
     the engaged, and children.  He does not advocate celebacy unless
     one is given it as a way of life from HaShem, and adds that only
     some are.

 RAL> There is no condemnation of Jesus in the synagogue liturgy,
     Well, besides the article of the heretic in the Daily Amidah that
     many scholars felt was added because of the Messainic Jews; and
     the fact that many/most Rabbi's require a statement against Jesus
     in their making of a Ger Tzaddik, you are correct :-)

 RAL> that "Judaism" denotes "Rabbinic Judaism."
     And Ethiopian, and Kararim, and Messianic :-)

 RAL> which refers to moshiach ben-Yosef.  That eliminates Jesus,
 RAL> at least if you believe the Christian Scripture's genealogies.
 RAL> According to Christian Scriptures, Jesus' lineage is traced to
 RAL> Judah, not Joseph.
     The title of Messiah ben-Yosef in Rabbinic lit. is not one based
     upon Messiah's lineage, but "type" of ministry. - Yosef suffered
     in Egypt for Israel; so will the suffering Messiah suffer for
     Israel. - Was how the "title" developed in Rabbinic sources.

 RAL> with whom do "Messianic Jews [sic]" share tenets: everyone else
 RAL> who calls themselves Jews, or those who call themselves
 RAL> Christians?
     Both.  But the reason we share "tenets" with Gentile-Christianity,
     is they sprung from 1st Century Messianic Judaism (Which came
     first, the chicken or the egg :-)  So rather, it would be more
     proper to say that they share certain tenets with us.  And since
     both Rabbinic and Messainic Judaism sprung out of Tanakh - we
     share certain "tenets" with each other.

... 012 And El*him said: Let Us make man in Our image, after Our... 210    
--  
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