HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: hunter@socrates.ucsf.edu (Craig Hunter)
Newsgroups: rec.boats.paddle
Subject: Re: iodine purification of water
Date: 8 Jan 93 21:26:57 GMT
Organization: UCSF Computer Graphics Lab

another reference on water treatment and Giardia lamblia cysts.
 
 Ongerth JE; Johnson RL; Macdonald SC; Frost F; Stibbs HH.
      Back-country water treatment to prevent giardiasis.
    American Journal of Public Health, 1989 Dec, 79(12):1633-7.


Abstract: This study was conducted to provide current information on the
    effectiveness of water treatment chemicals and filters for control of
    Giardia cysts in areas where treated water is not available. Four filters
    and seven chemical treatments were evaluated for both clear and turbid
    water at 10 degrees C. Three contact disinfection devices were also tested
    for cyst inactivation. Filters were tested with 1-liter volumes of water
    seeded with 3 x 10(4) cysts of G. lamblia produced in gerbils inoculated
    with in vitro cultured trophozoites; the entire volume of filtrate was
    examined for cyst passage. Chemical treatments were evaluated at
    concentrations specified by the manufacturer and for contact times that
    might be expected of hikers (30 minutes) and campers (eight hours, i.e.,
    overnight). Two of the four filter devices tested were 100 percent
    effective for Giardia cyst removal. Of the other two filters, one was 90
    percent effective and the other considerably less effective. Among the
    seven disinfection treatments, the iodine-based chemicals were all
    significantly more effective than the chlorine-based chemicals. None of the
    chemical treatments achieved 99.9 percent cyst inactivation with only
    30-minute contact. After an eight-hour contact each of the iodine but none
    of the chlorine preparations achieved at least 99.9 percent cyst
    inactivation. None of the contact disinfection devices provided appreciable
    cyst inactivation. Heating water to at least 70 degrees C for 10 minutes
    was an acceptable alternative treatment.
Newsgroups: rec.boats.paddle
From: tmenten@boi.hp.com (Tom Menten)
Subject: Re: Paddl. in Alaska, B.C., Y.T.?
Date: Tue, 5 Jan 1993 15:56:56 GMT
Organization: Hewlett-Packard / Boise, Idaho
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1.4 PL6]

Tom Menten (tmenten@boi.hp.com) wrote:
..
: trips on it now.  I believe it winds up on the Yukon, which you can take
: to the Gulf of Ak.  That's a mountainous river with about class 4 rapids,
: and very cold water. 

I'm told that I've seriously altered Alaskan geography here.  I'm not 
sure where I got the idea that the 'Tat flows into the Yukon, etc.
Perhaps a more informed person will reassemble this part of the state
for us.

-Tom Menten
Newsgroups: rec.boats.paddle
From: schultz@boulder.Colorado.EDU (Dennis Schultz)
Subject: Re: Ethics and Methods of Brush Clearing
Organization: University of Colorado, Boulder
Date:  5 Jan 93 20:39:11 GMT

	River First recommends the following gear for all river trips in the
year 2000 and beyond.
	1.)  Wire cutters to remove unwarranted barbed wire fences and the 
	     like.
	2.)  Chain saw to remove unwarranted logs and brush from river beds.
	3.)  Explosive device to remove unwarranted dams up to and including
	     dams the size of Glen Canyon.

Newsgroups: rec.boats
From: vatne@alcatel.no (Lars Vatne)
Subject: Re: Oil Tanker Grounding
Organization: Alcatel STK A/S
Date: Fri, 8 Jan 93 09:10:31 GMT

In article <1993Jan7.204915.7098@mksol.dseg.ti.com>, pyron@skndiv.dseg.ti.com (Dillon Pyron) writes:
|> 
|> It's easy, as is evident.  The ship was, to coin a phrase, dead in the water. 
|> The prevailing seas and wind merely pushed it onto the lee shore (now you know
|> why that is a nasty phrase).
|> 
|> Nobody drove the ship, it was driven by wind and sea.  The crew had already
|> abandonded ship, without setting an anchor or waiting for a tug.  I hope the
|> inquest smokes the master.
|> 
|> BTW.  NPR reported this morning that winds were so strong that pastures two
|> miles inland were being soaked with oil!!!
|> --
The news in Norway has been a bit more comprehensive as Shetland is Norway's
nearest neighbor to the west (approx. 190 n.m.).

The crew was taken off by a Coast Guard helicopter after attempts to secure
a tow line had failed. Both heavy anchors were deployed without being
able to hold the ship against the hurricane blowing 75 knots at the time.
The captain and four other crew were then put back on the tanker as
another tug arrived immediately before the ship went aground. Again 
attempts to secure a tow line failed. The last crew member was lifted from the
ship only seconds before it went aground. The helicopter pilot said the
rescue operation was very difficult and dangerous as the aft deck was
going 25 meters up and down in the waves near the shore.
-- 
Lars Vatne                     Phone  : +47 2 63 76 51    
Engineering Division           Fax    : +47 2 63 84 97  
Alcatel Telecom Norway AS      e-mail : lars.vatne@alcatel.no

From: bsmith@hplvec.LVLD.HP.COM (Brian Smith)
Date: Mon, 4 Jan 1993 19:14:34 GMT
Subject: Re: Coast Guard user fee repealed!
Organization: Hewlett-Packard Co., Loveland, CO
Newsgroups: rec.boats


    The state of Colorado is now charging $.25 on each hunting or fishing license
    to cover SAR costs.  It is actually considered a form of "insurance".  If you
    have a license, you are covered.  If you don't, you pay later.

Interesting!  The state is insuring a minority of its inhabitants!  I
wonder what it would say if I tried to get $0.25 coverage without a
license.  Anyone in Colorado willing to join in with a class action
:-?

B.S!
Newsgroups: rec.boats
From: gybeho@engin.umich.edu (John Senger)
Subject: Re: Oil Tanker Grounding (random questions about ship design)
Date: Tue, 12 Jan 93 15:16:15 EST
Organization: University of Michigan Engineering, Ann Arbor

In article <1iuvjvINNope@calvin.NYU.EDU> roy@mchip00.med.nyu.edu (Roy Smith) writes:
>	How thick is the hull in a typical ship?  If it's N inches, would a
>double hull ship have two N inch thick hulls, or two N/2 inch thick hulls,
>or something in-between?  How much space is between the hulls?  Does a
>tanker actually have tanks, or do the inside of the hull plates also serve
>as the walls of the tanks?

The hull in many ships is about 1/2" to 1" thick steel, and could be more
depending upon the size of the load being carried, the projected area of
operation, etc.  A double hull ship has an outer hull of about the same
thickness as a single hull ship, and then another, thinner hull about
6'-8' inboard of the outer hull.  Many double hulled ships also have an
inner bottom 6'-8' above the outer bottom of the hull for protection against
grounding.  The inner hulls and bottom serve as walls for the cargo tanks,
fuel tanks, etc.  Most ships do not carry anything in the space between
the hulls except ballast water when needed.  

There have been several problems shown with the tradional double hull design,
most of which are safety related.  There is a tendency for gases from the
fuel and cargo tanks to build up in the spaces between the hulls, especially
around frames and other structural members.  Also, there is a problem with
access to the space during inspections.  With only 6' or so of clearance,
plus all of the frames, piping, etc. in there, there is not much room for
someone to do a thorough inspection of the space.  One other important point
about the inspections is that if the inspector were to get injured while
down in the space, it would be almost impossible to get a medical team down
to him quickly and/or get him out on a stretcher.

Unfortunately, the general public has grasped the idea that double hulled
tankers are the answer to all of the problems, when in fact they have many
safety and other problems.  There are other designs that are effective in
preventing oil leakage during a spill, like the mid-deck tanker and light-
loaded tanker to name a few, but to show this takes some time and is slightly
technical.  Given an easy choice and a harder, but probably safer choice, the
politicians, special interest groups, and others who make/influence the 
making of laws have opted, like in so many other issues, to take the easy way
out.  Too bad.

Just my $.02 worth.

Smooth sailing.



-- 
John Senger                     

May the seas be calm, the wind at your back, and the beer truck
not far behind
Newsgroups: rec.boats
From: floydb@rpi.edu
Subject: Re: Boat Shows (was: Atlantic City...)
Date: Wed, 6 Jan 1993 14:30:32 GMT

In article <1993Jan5.234033.7500@mprgate.mpr.ca> kell@mprgate.mpr.ca (Dave Kell) writes:
>In article <f_92zr#@rpi.edu>, floydb@rpi.edu writes:
>|> 
>|> ps
>|>  
>|> what other boat shows are coming up. I am primarily interested
>|> in the east coast and gulf coast shows.
>
>From the January Cruising World magazine:

	stuff deleted


>Jan 8 - 17: Toronto International Boat Show, Coliseum & Exhibition Place,
>            Toronto, Ontario (Contact Outdoor Canada, 416-695-0311)
>
>            [I'm planning to attend this show the evening of Jan. 11th.
>             If anyone else is going then, and would like to get together,
>             I'd be agreeable.]
>
>Jan 9 - 17: New York National Boat Show, Jacob Javits Convention Center, 
>            New York, NY (Contact MNNA, 212-922-1212)
>

	stuff deleted


>Jan 21 - 24: Tampa International Boat Show, Tampa Convention Center, Tampa FL
>             (Contact NMMA, 813-264-0490).
>
>Jan 23 - 31: Philadelphia Boat Show, Philadelphia Civic Center, Philadelphia, PA
>             (Contact NMMA, 215-499-9910).
>
>
>I wonder how many manufacturers will be represented at this year's shows?  The
>last few shows I've attended have been pretty sad :(
>
>dK
>===========================================================================
>Dave Kell   (604) 293-5753                 kell@mowgli.mpr.ca
>MPR Teltech Ltd.                           mprgate.mpr.ca!kell@uunet.uu.net
>8999 Nelson Way
>Burnaby, BC, CANADA
>V5A 4B5
>===========================================================================


Thanks Dave for the info.

Anyone have impressions to share of the above shows (NYC, Tonoto, Tampa, Philadelphia)?

I have friends in NYC that I could "visit" next week. Would the boat show be
worth it? What might I expect? What vendors usually attend?

Same questions for the others, particularly Tampa. 

thanks in advance

barry
From: ercn72@festival.ed.ac.uk (R.J.Hare)
Newsgroups: rec.boats
Subject: Re: Oil Tanker Grounding
Date: 8 Jan 93 16:26:06 GMT

A further followup to the original posting after seeing some of the recent
responses - no particular order, and I haven't quoted the original points:

1) If my friends in the Merchant Navy are right (deck & engineer officers),
   the reason for the choice of route was simply that this route would under
   normal circumstances minimise fuel consumption on the trip.

2) The passage undertaken was the 22 mile channel between the Shetlands and
   Fair Isle (I think that's right).

3) Unfortunately, despite what was said in another post, the vessel had every
   right to be where she was. This channel is a normal shipping lane.

4) My guess is that the ships officers delayed calling up the salvage tugs
   just a bit too long (tese guys charge big money), and by the time they did
   call up the tugs, they had to abandon before the tugs got there.

Roger Hare.
From: torsten@unisql.UUCP (Torsten Weirich)
Newsgroups: rec.boats
Subject: Re: Oil Tanker Grounding
Date: 8 Jan 93 00:59:04 GMT
Organization: UniSQL, Inc., Austin, Texas, USA

In article <1ihsv1INNo0s@gaia.ucs.orst.edu> youngqud@ucs.orst.edu (Dean Youngquist) writes:


   Regarding the recent grounding of a large oil tanker in (I think) the 
   Shetland Islands, how is it possible for a ship to be driven onto the rocks ?

Alcohol, equipment reliability, stupidity;-) ;-)

Torsten Weirich

+---------------------------------------------------------------+
| UniSQL                      Cursed by a fortune cookie:       |
| 9380 Research Blvd.         "Your principles mean more to you |
| Kaleido II, Ste. 200         than any money or success."      |
| Austin, TX 78759               ^                              |
| Tel: (512) 343-7297            |                              |
| Fax: (512) 343-7383            +-the story of my life... ;-(  |
| Email: unisql!weirich@cs.utexas.edu                           |
| Disclaimer:  something about "plausible deniability"...       |
+---------------------------------------------------------------+
From: ben@smartstar.com (Benjamin Ellsworth)
Newsgroups: rec.boats
Subject: Re: New AC Rules
Date: 9 Jan 93 01:19:17 GMT
Organization: SmartStar/Signal Technology
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1 PL8]

Lauri Tarkkonen (tarkkone@klaava.Helsinki.FI) wrote:
: As far the series are held in San Diego, the American would interpret
: the rules so that their boat must be able to sail to the race course
: from San Diego and the Europeans must sail over the pond. Then the
: races will be anyway light wind round the buoys, easisly won by the 
: light wind flyer. (Remember the lopsided cat monohull series). :-).

Whine, whine, whine... :-)

It appears to me that this would be in the True (i.e. historically
accurate) Spirit of the cup.  It used to be that contenders had to sail
across the pond to race in the light airs of Long Island sound.

Some semblance of "fairness" in the AC is quite a recent concept.
Heck, there are those who say that it was first won by cheating (a
recent Forbes FYI).  Mr. Fay's claim of "Hey, that's not fair!" was
only made when it was in his interest, and for the purpose of swaying
a largely uninformed public.


-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Benjamin Ellsworth                            E-MAIL  ben@smartstar.com
SmartStar Corp.            
120 Cremona Dr.                                   VOICE  (805) 685-8000
Goleta, CA    93117                               FAX    (805) 562-1111
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
                   All possible disclaimers apply.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Newsgroups: rec.boats
From: mgsail@prefect.cc.bellcore.com (goldstein,marvin)
Subject: Re: Atlantic City Boat Show Feb. 4-7th, 1993
Organization: Bellcore, Livingston, NJ
Date: Wed, 6 Jan 93 15:33:59 GMT

In article <f_92zr#@rpi.edu> floydb@rpi.edu writes:
>I am considering attending the Atlantic City Boat Show 
>for a day or two. Having never been to this or other shows,
>What might I expect? What are these shows good for? How
>might the trip be best utilized?

This is the first time "sail Expo" is being held.  It is the sailboat 
industry's answer to the high prices of the New York Boat Show.  I'm going
with about 25 other refugees from the New York show and we expect alot.  These
shows are great for seeing what's new in boats and gagets.  
>
>I would like to buy a used boat (32' - 40') for coastal 
>cruising and passage making. Would the show have vendors
>of equipment to outfit such a boat? Are their mostly 
>vendors of new boats their? Is it mostly sailboat-oriented?

While the vendors are mostly of new boats, they take used boats in trade.
That's how I go my 32 from a dealer that had just sold a new 42.  Let 
the dealers know what you are interested in.   This show will be all
sailboat.

Happy Shopping!

Marv

Newsgroups: rec.boats
From: dean@MorningStar.Com (Dean Schell)
Subject: Re: Oil Tanker Grounding
Organization: Morning Star Technologies
Date: Thu, 7 Jan 1993 21:02:57 GMT

In article <1ihsv1INNo0s@gaia.ucs.orst.edu> youngqud@ucs.orst.edu (Dean Youngquist) writes:
>Regarding the recent grounding of a large oil tanker in (I think) the 
>Shetland Islands, how is it possible for a ship to be driven onto the rocks ?
>Was is actually driven into land while using maximum power and while attempting
>to travel directly away from land, into the swells and wind ?
>
>-Dean

In the news article it was reported that the tanker lost all power, or
at least power to its engines.  The crew is being investigated for
leaving the tanker too early.  Evidently a tug made it to the tanker
before it was pushed onto the rocks (65 - 90 mph winds), but could not
get a line on it because there was no one on board.  Now it is sinking
although not yet breaking up, and it's feared that all 24.6 million
gallons of light crud oil will be lost.  Salvage operations are underway
to first salvage the oil on board.  Because of the high wind and the
fact it is light crud oil, the oil is even messing up the environment
inland, covering pasture land, etc.

-dean
Newsgroups: rec.boats
From: michiel@mfie.atr.bso.nl (Michiel Fierst van Wijnandsbergen)
Subject: Re: Plastic sextants (Was: Various)
Organization: Me? Organized?
X-Newsreader: Tin 1.1 PL3
Date: Wed, 6 Jan 93 20:39:51 GMT

francis@oas.stanford.edu (Francis Muir) writes:

: CELESTIAL
: ---------
: 
: Just to keep myself honest, I thought I'd also pick up a Celestial video
: course. Any recommendations? I had in mind just getting one of the DAVIS
: el cheapo plastic things. Any reason to think that they are any less
: accurate than the most costly Weems & Plath in the hands of a tyro shooting
: sun-shots?

There has been a lengthy discussion on the plastic sextants about two years
ago. I looked around on my system if I could find any of the articles
I saved back then, but didn't find any.

The major problem with plastic sextants that was mentioned, is that
you need to measure the index error everytime you use it and keep
the conditions stable while you do it.
The problem is that the index error is influenced by the temperature
of the sextant. Some people mentioned they clearly noticed a difference
when the sextant was taken from the sun into the shade. The point here
is that the black plastic absorbs warmth from the sun and changes shape
ever so slightly.

On the other hand, plastic sextants are not as heavy and some people
like them for that reason, esspecially aboard small yachts that tend
to move faster than large commercial vessels.

I remember there were some other points too, but I forgot. I have
no personal experience with plastic sextants aboard. From the few
experiments I did with them in shops, I know I don't like the feel
and handling of them: kind of toy like. But what do you expect from
a -supposed to be accurate- measuring device of that price...

Michiel
-- 
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
Michiel Fierst van Wijnandsbergen          email:         mifi@atr.bso.nl
email: michiel@mfie.hobby.nl               email: michiel@mfie.atr.bso.nl
From: francis@oas.stanford.edu (Francis Muir)
Newsgroups: rec.boats
Subject: Re: Oil Tanker Grounding
Date: 7 Jan 1993 20:46:30 GMT
Organization: Stanford Exploration Project
Distribution: world
NNTP-Posting-Host: oas.stanford.edu

Dean Youngquist writes:

	Regarding the recent grounding of a large oil tanker in (I 
	think) the Shetland Islands, how is it possible for a ship 
	to be driven onto the rocks ? Was is actually driven into 
	land while using maximum power and while attempting to travel 
	directly away from land, into the swells and wind ?

First, the tanker had no business to be anywhere near in the first place.
Second, the boat suffered engine failure. Third, the captain and his
fellow chickens left the ship at the first opportunity, and did not wait
to allow a tug to get lines onto the ship. i see that the president of the
company -- an american  -- has said that it doesn't much matter because they 
are sufficiently insured to cover damages. oh really. the euros are now
going to legislate against flags of convenience.
From: price@cse.unl.edu (Chad Price)
Newsgroups: rec.boats
Subject: Re: Tradewinds Charter: Any Experiences?
Date: 11 Jan 1993 22:22:52 GMT
Organization: University of Nebraska--Lincoln	
Distribution: usa
NNTP-Posting-Host: cse.unl.edu

www@Ingres.COM (Bill White) writes:

>This is slightly related to the "planning a cruise" thread: Some friends
>and I are considering a charter out of St Lucia in late June.  I wrote to
>Moorings a while back and got their packet with rates, boats available,
>etc., but now I've received a similar packet from Tradewinds.  The rates
>are a bit cheaper; does anyone know:

>1. Is Moorings worth the extra money?  In many cases, they're offering the
>   same boats.

Depends on what you want. Moorings is a bit better organized, and gives you
better info on local conditions including how to clear customs. Moorings
tends to wait on one hand-and-foot Trade Winds is not so "First Class".
Trade Winds tends towards a more casual approach.

They are _not_ offering "the same" boats. Trade winds boats are Moorings
boats too old for Moorings standards. That said, they tend to be in very good
shape anyway. 

We chartered from Trade Winds in June/July and were very happy with the boat 
and the company, but then we tend to like doing things ourselves.

>2. Is Tradewinds a good outfit?  They advertise in Cruising World magazine
>   every month, so I know they're at least well established.

Trade Winds is doing OK - they expanded this year and have 2 places now:
St Lucia, and Young Island St Vincent. They bought out a company's leases
last year when it went under, and were planning on finding replacement 
boats for the older boats in the aquired fleet. 

>3. Are these two companies related?  Many of the Tradewinds boats are
>   Moorings models (e.g., Moorings 432).

Not at all related. Moorings drops boats after about 5 years, and Trade Winds 
tries to pick up the best of these older boats.

>If you've chartered in this area with either of these companies, I'd appreciate
>hearing of your experiences, good or bad.
From: jeffh@nonsuch.EBay.Sun.COM (Jeff Huntington)
Newsgroups: rec.boats
Subject: Re: New AC Rules
Date: 8 Jan 1993 16:53:28 GMT
Organization: Sun Microsystems, Inc.
Distribution: world
Reply-To: jeffh@nonsuch.EBay.Sun.COM
NNTP-Posting-Host: nonsuch.ebay.sun.com

In article EPLUS17@vmd.cso.uiuc.edu, EPLUS17@vmd.cso.uiuc.edu (Richard Engelbrecht-Wiggans) writes:
> In article <1ihuqqINNt19@male.EBay.Sun.COM>
> jeffh@nonsuch.EBay.Sun.COM (Jeff Huntington) writes:
>  
>  
> The worst thing that I can think of is, when in sufficiently cold
> weather, your wet suit freezes so solidly to the boat that you can't
> budge without tearing the suit to pieces.  I froze to my dinghy a
> couple of days ago, and spent some time trying to chose between
> 1) risk tearing the suit or 2) bring the boat around and see if she
> would stay upright with me frozen to the lee side.  A gust of wind
> solved the problem for me; I instinctively reacted and became
> unstuck without serious damage to my equipment.
>  
> Is this "slatting," or is there something even worse that can
> befall me while sailing?
>  
> ...Richard E+17
>  


That sure does sound bad Richard.  I never knew people went sailing when it 
is cold enought to freeze to the boat.  Gives a whold new meaning to "frostbiting".
Anyway, I am afraid you have gone and done it now.  I can see a whole barrage of
"worst experiences in sailboats" coming.  OK, lets hear the stories of the locus 
 attacks, baby deliveries, and obnoxious crew.  :-)


Semi-seriously, if you like being cold enought to be out sailing when you can
freeze to the boat, slatting for hours would probably be worse.  Or, can you
imagine being frozen to the boat, and slatting at the same time?

Jeff Huntington