HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: shimoff@umbc4.umbc.edu (Eliot Shimoff)
Subject: Re: My interpretation and yours
Organization: Univ. of MD, Baltimore County
Date: Mon, 23 Nov 1992 21:05:24 GMT

Daniel Faigin and Stan Krieger have responded politely and
respectfully, explaining why your "interpretation" is clearly
not Jewish.  Given their responses, I will respond less politely.

In article <9211231652.AA16894@relay2.UU.NET> johnson@itzb.com writes:
>
>You people are all such hypocrites.  You go on and on
>about how legitimate you all are, while saying that I
>am illegitimate just because you disagree with me.

Well, strictly speaking, none of us accuse you of being illegitimate;
our assertions have been about your theology.  But if the shoe fits,
wear it. :-)  I will refrain from making any obvious comments
about the "legitimacy" of the founder of one of the world's
major Western faiths. :-)

By your standards, we are hypocrites.  We are the spiritual
descendants of the Pharisees you hate so much!  (Incidentally,
watch out when you say "you people."  In doing so, you 
implicitly confirm that your people aren't our people.
Thank G-d!)

>All interpretations believe things that 200 years ago
>would be called heresy.  That's no more true of me as
>a M (Messianic) Jew than it is of an O or C or R Jew.
>All the interpretations, M, O, C, and R, are all in
>the same boat.

This is utter garbage.  Try it in some other forum; scj readers
are too sharp for this nonsense.

>If you want to call my interpretation illegitimate,
>give me a reason, otherwise stop complaining about
>people calling you illegitimate while yourselves all
>calling me illegitimate.

As noted above, Daniel and Stan have replied appropriately.

>And don't worry: I won't scare you by posting the
>reasons or tenets of my belief.  All I want to know is
>why, from a Jewish perspective (about which I have
>studied as much as any of you) you have the right to
>call me illegitimate while you gripe about noone
>calling you illegitimate.
>
Ah.  You've studied Jewish sources?  As well as _any_ of us?
Mishna?  Talmud?  Rishonim?  Aharonim?  Rabbenu Gershom?
I assume you know Hebrew and Aramaic well enough to navigate
through these?

Listen, turkey.  If you understood even a little about Jewish
sources, you would recognize the difference between Christianity
and Judaism.  Either you _do understand, or you don't know the
sources.  Either way, you're a liar.   And a putz.


>David ben Yeshu ben Dovid HaMelech

Hmm.  If this is your yichus, maybe you _are_ illegitimate.
-- 
Eliot Shimoff                  |    n   n   n
   shimoff@umbc3.umbc.edu      |   X + Y = Z .  Easy to prove no solutions
Ashamnu, bagadnu, gazalnu ...  |   for n greater than 2.  Darn.  Can't fit
Better luck next year!         |   it into this little .sig file.  Oh well.
From: aaldoubo@copper.denver.colorado.edu (Shaqeeqa)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
Subject: Re: American Antisemitism
Date: 22 Nov 92 04:08:50 GMT
Organization: University of Colorado at Denver

In article <RaNLuB3w165w@valpso.hanse.de> tichauer@valpso.hanse.de (Manfredo Tichauer) writes:

Nabil wrote:
Can you find out the percentage of Americans who don't like Arabs?
 
>  Why should he? This is s.c.j.

Nabeel was referring to Arabs as Semites, therefore, he was wondering,
in that context of American anti-semitism, what the percentage was in
view of hatred/bias against Arabs.

But we know, it isn't the same thing solely because the term was
invented by a German and according to any dictionary is defined
as "A person who is hostile toward or prejudiced against Jews"
(American Heritage) [actually under 'anti-semite'].

Now, I'm sure this is convenient as a way of not catagorizing Arabs
as Semitic people or even in viewing the hostilities and prejudices
against Arabs in this and other countries - especially Germany.  So,
for the sake of semantics, should we say anti-Arab?

Anisa
 
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
From: chips@eskimo.com (:crp:)
Subject: 6 hour cheeses
Organization: >>> Eskimo North (206)-FOR-EVER <<<
Date: Tue, 17 Nov 1992 18:06:45 GMT

I need a source, preferably english, of which cheeses are considered
hard and have to waited for before eating meat.	Thanks.

Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
From: cory@wam.umd.edu (Cory Michael Lebson)
Subject: Information on Haifa University (Israel) -- Honors Psychology
Organization: University of Maryland, College Park
Date: Mon, 23 Nov 1992 02:50:27 GMT

Hi, 
I expect to be spending the first semester of my junior year at Haifa
University, studying in the Honors Psychology Program  (English taught)
I was wondering if anyone had any comments/suggestions about Haifa, or
know anyone who went there and could give me more information about
the school from an inside point-of-view.  Anyone who was in the Honors       
Psyc program would be especially great, but that isn't essential.
Please e-mail me directly as I do not read this newsgroup regularly.
Thanks,
Cory Michael Lebson
cory@wam.umd.edu

P.S.  If anyone knows of a better school in Israel to study psychology
in English in Israel, please let me know also.

Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
From: astein@nysernet.org (Alan Stein)
Subject: Re: how to contact Wiesenthal(?) Nazi-tracking org?
Organization: NYSERNet, Inc.
Distribution: soc,world
Date: Mon, 16 Nov 1992 02:18:16 GMT

There is a presence from the Simon Wiesenthal Center on GEnie.  If
anyone needs to contact them and doesn't get a response through their
MCI mailbox, I can forward it via GEnie.
-- 
Alan H. Stein   -----  AJIN   -----  astein@israel.nysernet.org
Organization: Queen's University at Kingston
Date: Mon, 16 Nov 1992 14:15:44 EST
From: andy <2893684@QUCDN.QueensU.CA>
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
Subject: Re: Autopsy - Kahane and Rosenbaum

In article <1992Nov15.010443.5639@ennews.eas.asu.edu>,
makowsky@enuxhb.eas.asu.edu (David Makowsky) says:
>
>From: andy <2893684@QUCDN.QueensU.CA>
>
># In article <1992Nov7.234043.8319@ennews.eas.asu.edu>,
># makowsky@enuxha.eas.asu.edu (David Makowsky) says:
>
># >In article <92312.0345472893684@QUCDN.QueensU.CA> andy
># ><2893684@QUCDN.QueensU.CA> writes:
>
># ># In article <1N4PTB2w165w@valpso.hanse.de>, tichauer@valpso.hanse.de
># >(Manfredo
># ># Tichauer) says:
>
># ># >makowsky@enuxha.eas.asu.edu (David Makowsky) writes:
>
># ># >> # Would you support an American Kahane who proposed expelling all
># ># >non-Christ-
># ># >> # ians from the USA?
>
>
># ># Would he have paid Hitler money to expel the Jews from Europe? My father
># ># recalls reading in a Betar newspaper in the mid 30s that the Nazis were
># >right
># ># in arguing the Jews have no place in Germany and encouraging the Nazis
># ># to expel the Jews. It's this sort of smug, Machiavellian,
>ends-justifies-the
># ># means thinking often comes from the far right that gives me the chills.
>
># >        Did you read the context?  Could it have been they had no place
># >because of what was going to happen to them?  Jabotinsky for one
>
># Frankly, considering that Betar's paper had an ariticle called
># "From the Notebook of a Fascist" which promoted their brand of Zionism, it's
># hard, in context, to see this as a criticism by Betar of the fascists.
>
>        Other than they may have been stupid, what does that prove?  I
>have been told that until the late 1960's, many Israeli soldiers used
>to carry around pictures of Joseph Stalin.

It proves that many Betarniks were openly sympathetic to fascism.
Until after the Holocaust of course when they claimed to be the Nazis
biggest foes, rather hypocritically

>
># >        I'll bet you would have chosen expulsion as compared to what
># >happened.
>
># Betar also had this song they used to sing, one of the lines went
># "Germany for Hitler, Italy for Mussolini and Palestine for us"
>
>        At what time?

Mid to late 1930s.   How is the time relevant, that they were once openly
pro facist and later denied this fact proves only their mendacity.

>
># >--
># >"For all I care, you can send your money to the Hitler memorial fund, too, f
>i
># >that pleases you."
>
># Why not ask Betar, I'm sure they'll make a contribution.
>
>        It seems as though you are a better candidate.

My family resisted the Nazis while Betarniks openly sympathised with them
How does that make me a better candiate than Betar? While Betar was singing
the praises of Mussolini, my father's organisation was helping lead the
Warsaw Ghetto Uprising and you say I'm a better candidate? What nerve!
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
From: lerner@cs.columbia.edu (Michah Lerner)
Subject: Re: Halacha when the decisive facts were wrong (was Re:
Organization: Columbia University Department of Computer Science
	<19Nov92.205459.15910@granite.ciw.edu>
	<LERNER.92Nov19171620@tune.cs.columbia.edu>
	<20Nov92.040520.8071@granite.ciw.edu>
Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1992 18:03:30 GMT

In article <20Nov92.040520.8071@granite.ciw.edu> cohen@quartz.ciw.edu (Ronald Cohen) writes:


>>Nonsense.  Electricity never burned anything.  Electricity can
>>start a fire or cause oxidation,               ===============
  ============

I'm glad we agree.  Since starting a fire on Shabbos is not permissable,
neither is the general use of electricity permisssble in the situations where
making a fire is prohbited.  Likewise the actions which you describe -- the
strenuous rubbing of two sticks, pouring water on phospohorus, or opening the
airway of a superheated oxygen-free gastank would all make a fire, and be issur
on Shabbos.

There may also be a semantic question here, as to what constitutes a "fire".
--
/M
From: thf2@ellis.uchicago.edu (Ted Frank)
Subject: Re: American Antisemitism
Reply-To: thf2@midway.uchicago.edu
Organization: University of Chicago Computing Organizations
Date: Mon, 23 Nov 1992 04:14:31 GMT

In article <4470@copper.Denver.Colorado.EDU> aaldoubo@copper.denver.colorado.edu (Shahzaadee) writes:
>>In article <9866@blue.cis.pitt.edu.UUCP> milst1@cislabs.pitt.edu (Martin I Lewison) writes:
>>
>>One disheartening thing:  In general, African-Americans are far more likely
>>to be antisemitic than whites.
>
>Where, exactly, do you obtain your information?  Are you making a
>general hypothesis, or is this a proven fact which you can support?

Well, if you read his entire post, he gives a source: the recent ADL
poll showing 37% of blacks and 17% of whites to be anti-Semitic.

>Please follow this example and not stereotype against certain ethnic
>groups.  It is offensive - especially as African Americans have been
>discriminated against and suffered for many centuries.

Where's the stereotype?  "Far more likely" is a far cry from "all".
-- 
ted frank                     | thf2@ellis.uchicago.edu 
standard disclaimers          | void where prohibited
the university of chicago law school, chicago, illinois 60637
Xref: sparky soc.culture.jewish:20420 bit.listserv.catholic:2589
Organization: Queen's University at Kingston
Date: Wed, 18 Nov 1992 18:58:18 EST
From: andy <2893684@QUCDN.QueensU.CA>
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish,bit.listserv.catholic
Subject: "Feminazis" and the "abortion holocaust"
 <92323.1537062893684@QUCDN.QueensU.CA>

In article <92323.1537062893684@QUCDN.QueensU.CA>, andy
<2893684@QUCDN.QueensU.CA> says:
>
>In article <92323.1532272893684@QUCDN.QueensU.CA>, andy
><2893684@QUCDN.QueensU.CA> says:
>>
>>The term feminazi was used in a recent posting on the bit.listserv.catholic
>>newsgroup, I pointed out that I felt this was an inappropriate and flippant
>>use of the term Nazi, when one considers the millions who died. I was
>>subsequently told that it is appropriate because abortion is analogous to the
>>Holocaust, another comparison I find highly offensive.
>>
>>Would someone please explain to our friend (notice the cross-post) why these
>>usages are inappropriate? Thank you.
>
>I'm reattempting the cross post.
Xref: sparky soc.culture.jewish:20463 bit.listserv.catholic:2620
From: starr-daniel@yale.edu (Daniel Starr)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish,bit.listserv.catholic
Subject: Re: "Feminazis" and the "abortion holocaust"
Date: 19 Nov 1992 02:38:04 -0500
Organization: Yale University Science & Engineering UNIX(tm), New Haven, CT 06520-2158
NNTP-Posting-Host: minerva.cis.yale.edu

I have to thank Ted Frank for noting that the word "fascism" is an ideal
example of the kind of abuse one worries about in regard to the Holocaust.
Of course, when "fascism" is misapplied, it is merely poor English and waters 
down the meaning of the word -- which refers, after all, merely to a 
political ideology.   When "Holocaust" is made comparable 
to things to which properly it is not, it trivializes something utterly
horrific. 

I must disagree with Ted Frank slightly, in that it sounds like he may be
suggesting that the (lower-case) word "holocaust" can only be used in 
reference to the Holocaust of Jews under the Third Reich.  The lower-case
word -- "a holocaust" is to my mind a perfectly good word.  It has a
more frightful connotation now than 70 years ago, but that doesn't
invalidate it any more than the necessary connotations for a U.S. citizen
of "constitution" make its polite usage restricted.  It is the
upper-case word, the proper noun "the Holocaust" that refers specifically
and deliberately to our horror, and it is that deliberate reference which
I think should be employed only where it is merited.

And what of the phrase (whose was it?) "abortion holocaust"?  I think,
since neither the lower-case nor the upper-case word really resembles the
results of pro-abortion rights policies even under the most vicious
interpretation, that is no matter what at best a poor choice of words.
Perhaps "abortion murders"  (as in "the abortion murders" or "the abortion
murderers") would suit the speaker's purpose better.  As I use the word,
"holocaust" refers to a scene or environment of utter destruction.
(The application to the attempted genocide comes from our viewing ourselves
as a united community, and seeing that community utterly devastated.)  Even
if every fetus aborted were a murder (even that's a poor usage, because
murder implies intent to kill, which the aborting woman doesn't have because
she doesn't think the fetus is alive...), I find it very difficult to imagine
a "community of fetuses" -- and particularly in view of the fact that the
vast majority of fetuses are _not_ aborted, even then the word "holocaust"
(even in lower case) is misapplied.

Again, if any do not understand how I feel or why, I am happy to clarify.

r
-- 
--------------------------------------------------------------------
|Daniel Starr                | "Wait! Wait! Maybe THIS will work!" |
|dstarr@minerva.cis.yale.edu |                                     |
--------------------------------------------------------------------
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
From: MASH@WEIZMANN.WEIZMANN.AC.IL (Michael Shimshoni)
Subject: Unobservant Witnesses (was Conversion Question)
Organization: Mail to News Gateway at Wang Labs
Date: Mon, 16 Nov 1992 14:13:57 GMT

In: <92318.120107YZKCU@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Yaakov Kayman <YZKCU@CUNYVM.BITNET> states inter alia:

>In article <97353@netnews.upenn.edu>, weemba@sagi.wistar.upenn.edu (Matthew P
>Wiener) says:
>>
>>In article <92317.122453YZKCU@CUNYVM.BITNET>, YZKCU@CUNYVM (Yaakov Kayman)
>>writes:
           *******    much skipped    ********

>It appears that only one of us, i.e., you, was talking about witnesses.
>I was referring to who would be allowed to sit as a dayyan (rabbinical
>judge) in a beit din performing an actual conversion. Unobservant wit-
>nesses, btw, can also prove problematical, but that's a different matter.

That seems like  a truism.  Someone who does not  observe anything has
nothing to be witness to.

(Personal request: Please no kind letters to me, explaining the term).

>>-Matthew P Wiener (weemba@sagi.wistar.upenn.edu)
>
>Yaakov K.

 Michael Shimshoni
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
From: makowsky@enuxhb.eas.asu.edu (David Makowsky)
Subject: Re: A message from Kach to the Arabs?
Reply-To: makowsky@enuxhb.eas.asu.edu (David Makowsky)
Organization: Arizona State University, Tempe AZ
Date: Tue, 17 Nov 1992 01:17:24 GMT

In article <dfs.721958431@pulaski> dfs@doe.carleton.ca (David F. Skoll) writes:

# From "Israel Line", 16 November, 1992:
 
# > Israel Radio, KOL YISRAEL, reports that a hand grenade exploded
# > this afternoon in a market in the Moslem Quarter of Jerusalem
# > killing a 70 year-old Arab and injuring 8 others.  Before the
# > incident, someone called a reporter from the newspaper HADASHOT,
# > saying that the Kach movement intended to stage an attack in
# > eastern Jerusalem. After the hand grenade had gone off, someone
# > again called the same journalist saying that the Kach movement was
# > taking responsibility for the grenade attack. The commander of the
# > Jerusalem Police said that an intensive investigation is being
# > conducted to find those responsible for the attack. No suspects
# > have yet been apprehended.
 
# Do the supporters of Kach on scj not see that cowardly terrorist
# attacks such as the above are the inevitable results of Kach's
# platform?
 
	No, since it is not.  By the way, I ma not now, nor have I ever
been, a member of Kach.
--
	There are three types of people in the world.  Those that are good
at math and those that are not.

makowsky@enuxhb.eas.asu.edu
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
From: MASH@WEIZMANN.WEIZMANN.AC.IL (Michael Shimshoni)
Subject: Re: What _is_ the procedure for conversion in Judaism?
Organization: Mail to News Gateway at Wang Labs
Date: Mon, 16 Nov 1992 14:51:32 GMT

In: <40965@sdcc12.ucsd.edu>
ph600fcy@sdcc14.ucsd.edu (Matthew Harrington) asks:
 Subject: Re: What _is_ the procedure for conversion to Judaism?

>In the previous lengthy article, I didn't catch what happens to a
>ger if he is already circumsised.  What is meant by a "ritual
>drawing of blood?"  (more at: from where is the blood drawn?)

Matt, your guess was correct!

>--Matt Harrington

   Michael Shimshoni
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
From: saal@cbnewsl.cb.att.com (samuel.saal)
Subject: Re: Not Techelet Again (Re: Prayer shawls)
Organization: AT&T
Date: Mon, 16 Nov 1992 19:37:32 GMT

>Andrew Solovay writes:
>>>Oh no! Not the Techelet thread again!

>Joel Goldberg responds:
>>  But it can't _be_ the authentic techelet thread...


In article <199211131251.AA14674@yfn.ysu.edu> <aa324@yfn.ysu.edu
(Marlene Miller)> adds:
>Nope, it's definitely _not_ the authentic techelet thread. In fact, it
>looks kinda grey on _my_ monitor!

I would have thought that the source for the blue dye, not just its
appearance on a monitor was the knotty issue.
-- 
Sam Saal      kingfish!saal OR saal@kingfish.att.com
	Vayiftach HaShem et Peah Ha`Aton
Organization: Queen's University at Kingston
Date: Sat, 21 Nov 1992 00:53:36 EST
From: andy <2893684@QUCDN.QueensU.CA>
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
Subject: Re: Jews in Banks

In article <NBDJuB11w165w@status.gen.nz>, jonc@status.gen.nz (Jon Clarke) says:
>
>arf@ddsw1.mcs.com (Jack Schmidling) writes:
>
> Jack replies to my comment of:
>> > But as an aside the religion of any director of any bank or business
>> > should not be a matter of conspiracy it is their PERSONAL choice
>> > and frankly has NOTHING to do with any of us.
>>
>> That's very nice but what the hell does any of this have to do with
>> the Federal Reserve System and Alan Greenspan?  I believe the suggestion was
>> made that the Fed was controlled by Jews and all this yarn does not get
>> Greenspan into church on Sunday.
What sort of garbage is this? Why does the director of the Fed have to be
a Christian? Talk about prejudice!

>>
>> js
>
> Did you not read the bit above your reply ???
From: ehrlich@bimacs.BITNET (Gideon Ehrlich)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
Subject: Re: Conversion Question
Date: 16 Nov 92 14:01:29 GMT
Organization: Math department, Bar-Ilan University, Ramat-Gan, ISRAEL

In article <4454@bimacs.BITNET> rothberg@bimacs.BITNET (Danny
Rothenberg) writes:

>
>--
>Be'ahavat chinam (with causeless love)
>^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>Danny Rothenberg             |     ^
>Bitnet:                      |  \-/-\-/  "He's not the messaiah.  He's a
>rothberg@bimacs              |   X   X    very naughty boy."
>Internet:                    |  /-\-/-\                        - Brian's Mum
>rothberg@bimacs.cs.biu.ac.il |     V
>-------------------------------------------------------------------------------


I am sure Danny did not meant it but:
" Beahavat chinam" is nothing but a declaration of hatered.

there is a mizva to love every good one , but not to love criminals.

So if you declare your love is "chinam" - without a real risson , you
actualy declared the other to be a criminal!

( The origion of the term Ahavat hinam is a humoristic word play with
 the term "  sinat hinam " . It related to what the Hoze of Lublin
said: The 1st Temple was destroyed by Sinat hinam in order the 3rd
Temple will be built we should keep doing love among us."
Later on several Hasidic Rabbis used the humoristic formula:
 ... the 3rd temple will be built up by "ahavat hinam" which should be
understand as a somewhat funny substitution for a lot of love )

Shalom   , beahavat  lo-hinam      gideon ehrlich

ERETS YISRAEL
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
From: kgivon@silver.ucs.indiana.edu (karen lee givon)
Subject: Re: American Antisemitism
Organization: Indiana University
Date: Sun, 22 Nov 1992 05:12:53 GMT

In article <4441@copper.Denver.Colorado.EDU> aaldoubo@copper.denver.colorado.edu (Shaqeeqa) writes:
>In article <mannj.722279634@acf9> mannj@acf9.nyu.edu (Jordan Mann) writes:
>>milst1@cislabs.pitt.edu (Martin I Lewison) writes:
>>
>>And from what I've heard, the likelihood that a black person is anti-Semitic
>>*increases* with their level of education.  Witness the popularity of anti-
>>Semitic tirades by Nation of Islam representatives on prestigious college
>>campuses.  There was one a week or two ago at Columbia.
>

>I hope there is not an insinuation that the Nation represents Islam
>or Islamic philosophy.  Anyone who is familiar with The Nation's

I don't think there was any insinuation of that.  He was talking about
educated blacks and just used Nation of Islam as an example.     

>ideology might learn that they are extremely racist against caucasions
>as a whole - whether they are Jewish or not.  I happen to have had a
>few encounters with the 'brothers' from The Nation on our campus - who
>told me that I would not (nor any other caucasion Muslim) be welcome
>in their masjid (I would be 'thrown out'); and, when asking if I, as a
>'fellow' Muslim, is still considered to be a 'devil', was told, 'I don't
>know - are you?'
>
I know Muslims who have had experiences similar to this.   

-Keren   



>Anisa


Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish,misc.headlines,talk.politics.misc,misc.legal