HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
Newsgroups: alt.magick
From: shaman@cix.compulink.co.uk (Leo Smith)
Subject: Re: misc.magick...
Reply-To: shaman@cix.compulink.co.uk
Date: Fri, 18 Dec 1992 21:34:00 +0000

oispeggy@ubvmsd.cc.buffalo.edu (Peggy Brown)

>I don't like the idea of having it moderated, at all.

>- Peggy -

I second that.

In any case, after YEARS of usenet, I STILL don't know how a
moderator moderates. Is it physical removal or blocking of messages,
or simply requests to 'take the discussion elsewhere'

Could explain why half my posts never turn up tho. :-)




Newsgroups: alt.magick
From: rtsumn01@ulkyvx.louisville.edu
Subject: Taste
Date: Sat, 12 Dec 1992 02:41:31 GMT
Organization: University of Louisville

What would be the attributions of the four tastes (sweet, salty, sour,
bitter) to the four elements?

--Semhaza
From: jasonp@primerd.Prime.com (Jason Pascucci)
Newsgroups: alt.magick
Subject: Well, Sigh...
Date: 20 Dec 92 03:13:57 GMT
Organization: Prime Computer R&D

Hi, kids.

It looks like yours truly is going to lose Usenet access for a 
while, at least until I can get net access (Probably through
uucp. Sigh) and set up a newsfeed. 

I am leaving my current company (ComputerVision),and going to a small 
company in Cambridge, MA called Access International, for completely 
mundane reasons. I will be leaving at the end of the month. 
I expect to be moving to Cambridge end of Jan sometime.

It's been a pleasure, and I hope to regain access soon. 
I'll be around for a little while, anyways.

What I plan to do is start a RFD on news.groups related to 
misc.magick, to test the water. However, I don't
feel I will be around when the CFV comes, so someone
will have to volenteer for that. 

My new address, as of Jan 4, will be

Jason R. Pascucci
Access International
432 Columbia Street
Cambridge, MA 02141
(617) 494-0066

(My current work phone is (508) 620-2800x3530. I don't
own a home phone.) Feel free to call on me any time. 
I'll have my email forwarded for a while after I leave, 
in any case. 
--
Jason R. Pascucci
jasonp@primerd.prime.com
From: lynx@terapin.com (Debbie Caraway)
Newsgroups: alt.magick
Subject: Trying to re-estab. contact.
Date: 19 Dec 92 14:30:22 PST
Organization: BBS

Please bear with me on this post.  I was communicating in e-mail with someone
from Southern CA, who I was to call voice.  Half my e-mail was deleted by the
system (the more recent half).  So, if you sent me mail in the last few weeks,
please send me a not.  Thanks.
From: joshua@cpac.washington.edu (Joshua Geller)
Subject: Re: misc.magick...
Organization: Institute for the Study of Ancient Science
Date: Wed, 16 Dec 1992 08:44:36 GMT


In article <1992Dec16.064254.17948@primerd.prime.com> jasonp@bungie.Prime.com 
(Jason Pascucci) writes:

>   Comments? Negative, as well as Positive: I need encouragement. :)

how about sci.hermetic? how about making it moderated (by several people
of disparate views, and with a pretty open policy about letting posts
through, say)?

josh
From: ladislas@sobeco.com (Ladislas A.)
Newsgroups: alt.magick
Subject: Re: Singin' Those Apocalypse Blues
Date: 16 Dec 92 20:08:10 GMT
Organization: Sobeco Ernst & Young

I wrote:
>>This civilization is gangrenous.  Like the Phoenix, it must immolate itself
>>to be reborn from its ashes.  The collapse of the roman civilization didn't
>>wipe out all existing knowledge as some fear would happen should ours collapse.
>>I'd say the collapse of the roman civ. paved the way for our civilization.
>>I heard somewhere that when something dies, it favors the birth of something
>>new.

You (stanley@verga) respond:

>Oh... well then why don't we just throw ourselves on the pyre like the other
>dorks.

*If* you consider yourself a dork...  I, on the other hand, consider myself
a survivalist.  Civilization is just a structure by which I have lived for
some time.  I choose to remain even if the structure must collapse.

>>In our century, we have become obsessed with keeping death away at all cost.
>>How many terminally ill patients await their death in sufferings because we
>>might find someday, a way to cure them?  Some are prepared to suffer in the
>>hope that they can be cured.  Some would be content to die but they are
>>robbed of that freedom.  Lately, euthanasia (sp?) as been granted to some
>>people.  My opinion is that our civilization is terminally ill.  Refusing
>>to let it die when its time's up might only cause greater suffering.

>Oh yea?  What if you're just another idiot?  Then we allowed out civilization
>to die for nothing.

If I'm just another "idiot" as you say, then I can't possibly be right and time
will prove me wrong.

Since I'm prepared to face the possibility that you're right, I'm willing to
consider your plan for world salvation.  Have you got a spell to make it all
better?

>>>>... problem with the human specy really is: greed.

>Some people are greedy... some aren't.

I can't disagree with you here.

>>I find it hard to believe that even magick can have such worldwide effects.

>Then you're not much of a magickian, are you?

I'm not a "magickian" at all.  In the sense that I don't practice ceremonies.
But then again, I never pretended I was.  I just consider myself open-minded
enough to accept that magick exists.  But I'm not so foolish as to think that
magick is omnipotence.

Ladislas.
Newsgroups: alt.magick
From: rtsumn01@ulkyvx.louisville.edu
Subject: Re: Food for Fasting
Date: Wed, 16 Dec 1992 03:35:39 GMT
Organization: University of Louisville

In article <BzB7Hq.G77@apollo.hp.com>, heff@apollo.hp.com (Jeff Oesterle) writes:
> 
> 
> So, I'm planning on fasting in a couple of weeks, and I'm wondering
> what the best way to go about it is.
> 
> The options available seem to be water only, varieties of juices, 
> and/or vitamins.  I've heard different recommendations, and would
> like to get more information.   A FOAF who studied nutrition as an
> undergrad seems to think that drinking juices would be worse on the
> ole digestive system than drinking just water.  Does this make sense?


For pity's sake eat something if you're planning on fasting for any
length of time. Something light, definitely not meat, and avoid
sugar-heavy foods since they'll drop you shortly after consumption.
Complete abstention from foods may get you spectacular results; one of
them is ill-health. You might also want to avoid breaking your fast
with a gorge. I don't know if that's unhealthy, but it can make you
feel miserable.  Oh, and eat twice a day, not once, on your fast.

--Semhaza
Newsgroups: alt.magick
From: scarrobi@shearson.com (Steve Carrobis)
Subject: Re: Pentagrams
Reply-To: scarrobi@shearson.com
Organization: Lehman Brothers, Inc.
Date: Tue, 15 Dec 1992 14:51:25 GMT

well the main reason the inverted a pentacle is used is because it resembles
a goats head.
the symbol for satanic worship.

---
Steve C. 

 ==> A wise man once told me - There ARE NO Wise Men !
                             - Just fools who think they are.
---------------------------------------------------------------		
 I understand you need someone to do work.
 I don't do work, but, I know this guy who does.
    -Vladimir Taltos
---------------------------------------------------------------

   	


Newsgroups: alt.magick
From: locklin@titan.ucc.umass.edu (Lupo the Butcher)
Subject: Re: Hello
Organization: Campus Crusade for Cthulhu
Date: Mon, 21 Dec 1992 04:07:44 GMT
X-Posted-From: titan.ucc.umass.edu
NNTP-Posting-Host: sol.ctr.columbia.edu

In article <BzL6o7.Gpy@news.cso.uiuc.edu> ba@mrcnext.cso.uiuc.edu (B.A. Davis-Howe) writes:
>harish.reddy@factory.com (Harish Reddy)  writes:
>
>>I would love to learn more about 'Magick', partly for the power trip 
>                                            ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>>and, well, I think that it calls to me. I say think because it just 
>>might be an extension of a desire for power ect.
>                            ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>
>Two good reasons *not* to respond to this person.
>
>Harish, magic is not about power-tripping.  If you want real power over people,
>go into politics.

Ah the Sheer INTOLERANCE of this post. To a great many magickians, especially
those who follow the left-hand way, that is exactly what magick is all about.
Indeed, by the best definition _I_ have heard of what magick "is" (magick is
the art or science of causing change in conformity with one's WILL) the will
to power is a perfectally valid use for magick, one of the more obvious ones
actually.

I would be _very_ interested to hear _your_ opinions on what magick is "about"
(I promise not to flame).

As far as politics, I would assert that working for the media will give one 
far more power over people than your average political hack has. You will note
that in Harish' original post he mentioned nothing about "power over people".

>"We are secretly replacing the fine quartz crystals this medicine pouch maker
>usually uses with Folgers crystals.  Let's see what happens...."
>                                      --DACCrowell

(HAW!)

ye servante of ye great olde ones...
-Scott
From: wce@hogbbs.scol.pa.us (Bill Eichman)
Newsgroups: alt.magick
Subject: Re: Grimoir?
Date: Fri, 18 Dec 92 00:00:53 EST
Organization: The Heart of Gold BBS, Lemont PA

ba@mrcnext.cso.uiuc.edu (B.A. Davis-Howe) writes:

> Why am I (the local Crowley-basher) the only person who recognised it?  Peopl
> have been talking about how this couldn't be Crowley because he was never thi
> direct.  But this is Crowley's most famous book.  I don't understand. *sigh*
> 

It was too obvious to be worth commenting upon. A few mistakes and a 
little study can be good for a person studying these practices.

Later, Bill
From: Tagi@cup.portal.com (Thyagi Morgoth NagaSiva)
Newsgroups: alt.magick
Subject: Re: misc.magick...
Date: Thu, 17 Dec 92 17:53:07 PST
Organization: The Portal System (TM)
Distribution: world
  <JOSHUA.92Dec16004436@bailey.cpac.washington.edu>
  <1992Dec17.165637.11477@spider.co.uk>

9212.17 e.v.  The Black Snake speaks.


Make it moderated but with a loose system.

1 pt. for having posted to Alt.Magick once with a serious post
                 (your evaluation)

1 pt. for having been flamed by Josh once (your evaluation)

1 pt. for not having the ability of making a killfile and/or 
                     being required to see every article

1 pt. for having been addressed by Shava Averett

1 pt. for having flamed someone else at least once (your evaluation)

1 pt. for being the person to set up the newsgroup



TOTAL THESE

If your total is among the top three scores, you and all people like
you will be moderating the group if you so choose (perhaps the only time 
that you will be extended this offer).  


If ALL of them veto a posting then it never sees the
light of day.

If someone wishes to therefore allow all first postings, then they
will have the opportunity to do this.


At ONE YEAR OR ANY TIME BEFORE a Moderator may give up their position 
(such as it is) to the person of their choice, but someone who has 
NEVER been a Moderator in the newsgroup.



In this way the group can be moderated but not dominated.


Thyagi ('Nigris') NagaSiva
Newsgroups: alt.magick
From: adam@muskwa.ucs.ualberta.ca (Adam Mark)
Subject: does magick work?
Keywords: magic spell needed
Organization: University Of Alberta, Edmonton Canada
Distribution: alt
Date: Thu, 17 Dec 1992 23:27:04 GMT


	Hello witches ,sorcerers and other practioners of the occult
arts. My question is does anyone have a way of getting me out of a tight 
financial situation? Any help ,direct or by pointing me in the right
direction would be greatly appreciated. I am trying all the
conventional methods myself
Thanks in advance             
Newsgroups: alt.magick
From: grimoire@byron.u.washington.edu (John Greer)
Subject: Re: Singin' Those Apocalypse Blues
Organization: University of Washington, Seattle
Date: Wed, 16 Dec 1992 20:56:42 GMT

In article <BzB3q2.JwG@acsu.buffalo.edu> oispeggy@ubvmsd.cc.buffalo.edu (Peggy Brown) writes:
>
>[original Peggy]
>
>  (Regarding stuff Josh said.)
>**The vision comes first, then the action. 
>
>  (Regarding stuff John Michael Greer said.)
>**And with this sort of pessimism, we'd still be in the 
>**dark-ages.  
>******************************************************************
>
>That was a flame?  It made a simple, obvious point (which I still 
>think is valid BTW, but don't care enough to defend it).  Did not 
>attack you.  Why are you having such a fit?  Get a grip.
>

Huh?  You responded to my post, Peggy, and I responded to yours.  I
didn't notice anyone attacking anyone, or having a fit.  I certainly
disagreed with your point, but -- this is alt.magick, right?  Or have
I accidentally wandered onto alt.warm.fuzzy?

>I get the impression you'd prefer something like this?
>
>"John Michael Greer started a scintillating discussion about the 
>Apocalypse.  His comments have all been totally brilliant and 
>insightful.  What a guy!  What a thread!  What a ceremonial 
>magician!"
>
>How's that.:)
>
>- Peggy -

Oh please.  

What I'd prefer, on the off chance that you're interested, is a 
response that deals with the question instead of playing ostrich
with platitudes in place of sand.

But hey, it's a free Net.  Ostrich away...

-- JMG



Newsgroups: alt.magick
From: StarOwl@uiuc.edu (StarOwl)
Subject: Re: talk.magick
Reply-To: StarOwl@uiuc.edu
Organization: Actuarial Science Program at UIUC
Date: Thu, 17 Dec 1992 02:09:32 GMT

joshua@cpac.washington.edu (Joshua Geller) writes:

>no. fuck the profane.

Remember to ask permission first  --  the profane might not want to be f*cked.

;)

(Sorry...just finished my last final, and I'm in a strange mood....)


--
Michael D. Adams       (aka StarOwl)	| Of all sexual aberrations, chastity
StarOwl@uiuc.edu       (NeXT mail OK)	| is the strangest. -- Anatole France
anon.46@pax.tpa.com.au (anonymously)	|------------------------------------
an692@anon.penet.fi    (anonymously)	| NBCS: B1f+t-w+g+k++s+me+h-qv
From: jasonp@bungee.NoSubdomain.NoDomain (Jason Pascucci)
Subject: Re: moderation (was: Re: misc.magick...)
Organization: Prime Computer R&D
Date: Sun, 20 Dec 1992 02:30:42 GMT

Or, you can moderate it electronically. Everybody gets
one ass-o-gram, and then gets put in the 'burn
future posts' list. (Or, equally, send posts
to the moderators for moderation list.)

This is less painful for moderators, certainly. And,
if people seek to get around electronic moderation,
we can shut their site off. Not perfect, but enough so for the 
casual weenie. And then, moderation is easily enough
gotten around by a person who wants to be obnoxious
anyways, that this should be adequate. 

One might expect there to be software which can
handle this out there, so I doubt anybody
would have to write it. 

--
Jason R. Pascucci
jasonp@primerd.prime.com
Newsgroups: alt.magick
From: jasonp@bungee.NoSubdomain.NoDomain (Jason Pascucci)
Subject: Re: Pentagrams
Organization: Prime Computer R&D
Date: Wed, 16 Dec 1992 21:09:00 GMT

In article <71824@cup.portal.com>, Tagi@cup.portal.com (Thyagi Morgoth NagaSiva) writes:
|> 
|> Toward what, precisely, is the point directed?

The genetalia?

|> Thyagi
--
Jason R. Pascucci
jasonp@primerd.prime.com
Newsgroups: alt.magick
From: mark.terka@rose.com (mark terka)
Subject: Grimoir?
Organization: Rose Media Inc, Toronto, Ontario.
Date: Sun, 13 Dec 1992 18:29:13 GMT
X-Gated-By: Usenet <==> RoseMail Gateway (v1.70)


Date Entered: 12-13-92 13:21
I recently came across this translation of an old Grimoir. It sounds like
a sex magic rite related to Thelema, but I'm not too sure. Anyone else
familiar with this?

                      The Most Holy Grimoire.
 
    This Grimoire, which contains the Secret of Secrets not yet revealed,
 was made by the Supreme King O.T.O. Baphomet X  M... himself.


                       Regarding the Temple.

           1.  East     ...............    Altar
           2.  West     ...............    Tablet of god to be invoked
           3.  North    ...............    Priestess {or Priest}
           4.  South    ...............    Fire with thurible. etc.
           5.  Center   ...............    Four-sided Stone with:

             Images of the God
             Most Great, Ineffable, Unspoken Secret
             and with sword, bell, oil
             The Virgin.  Place the image beside the Book Thelema.

  
                    Regarding the First Ceremony.
 
 Let it done be as Book 671 has said, but first let the Virgin be purified
 with the words: "Asperge me..." etc., and put off her garments with the
 words: "Per sanctum Mysterium," etc. Thus is the Pyramid raised.  Then the
 Virgin purifies the priest, and removes his vestments as is above ordained.

    (Here the virgin states the orations of this work of god).

 
                Regarding the Ceremony of the Thurible.
 
    Let the virgin kindle the fire and the priest with her hands, saying:
 
 "Accendat in nobis Dominus ignem sui amoris et flamman aeternae caritatis."
 
 
                 Regarding the Ceremony of Dedication.
 
    The virgin invokes the image of the God Most Huge, Ineffable, Secret, not
 to be spoken of, with these words. --- "Tu qui es prater omnia...x.t.l."
 Neither does she relinquish the other image.
  
 
                     Regarding the Final Sacrifice
 
    Then the priest breaks the silence with the words of the holy versicle of 
 the particular god being invoked
    He enters the Holy of Holies.
    Beware; beware; beware.
    Two who are become ONE sing without interuption, and in high voice,
 the words of the holy versicles.
 
 
 MDNM                  Regarding the Blessing of the Blessing
 
 Having spent the dew, the woman says these words "Quia patris et filii s.s." 
 etc.
 
 
                      Regarding the Final Ceremony
  
 Let it be done as it has been said in Book 671.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Comments, anyone?

... ----->| MARK!
___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.11
---
   RM 2.00 : RoseNet<=>Usenet Gateway : Rose Media 416-733-2285
Newsgroups: alt.magick
From: ba@mrcnext.cso.uiuc.edu (B.A. Davis-Howe)
Subject: Re: 4 elements
Organization: University of Illinois at Urbana
Date: Mon, 14 Dec 1992 21:34:40 GMT


Jeffrey asks why the four Elements are important.  One interpretation of
the Elements is that they are inherent aspects of our psyche.  Vivianne
Crowley, a Jungian psychologist and Wiccan High Priestess discusses the
relationship of the Elements to the Jungian Types in her book _Wicca: The
Old Religion in the New Age_.  (The title is awful, but her analysis is 
worthwhile.)  She connects Air to Thinking, Fire to Intuition, Water to
Feeling, and Earth to Sensation.  She then points out that the process of
calling the Quarters in a circle is a process of creating a mandala of
integration which encourages the psyche to balance the four functions.

It is worthwhile reading whether one is into Wicca or not.  

Enjoy the journey!

                      --Br'anArthur

                                      Queer, Peculiar, and Wyrd! :-)

******************************************************************************
"We are secretly replacing the fine quartz crystals this medicine pouch maker
usually uses with Folgers crystals.  Let's see what happens...."
                                      --DACCrowell

Newsgroups: alt.magick
From: mcnair@slab.unt.edu (SEAN MCNAIR)
Subject: RE: RE:Merkabah Mysteries
Organization: School of Library & Info Sci, UNT
Date: Tue, 15 Dec 1992 00:05:11 GMT

	Are there any texts that you could suggest, or your teacher?


		Sean Jeffers Mc Nair
Newsgroups: alt.magick
From: mimir@hardy.u.washington.edu (Al Billings)
Subject: Re: misc.magick...
Organization: The Friends of Loki Society
Date: Thu, 17 Dec 1992 05:40:08 GMT

In article <BzCuLM.3K5@acsu.buffalo.edu> oispeggy@ubvmsd.cc.buffalo.edu (Peggy Brown) writes:
>
>I don't like the idea of having it moderated, at all.

 Then you can have alt.magick, which is unmoderated. Personally, I get
tired of reading some of the off-topic bullshit here.
From: hiho@csd4.csd.uwm.edu (Mark Peterson)
Newsgroups: alt.magick
Subject: Re: Binah and 333
Date: 14 Dec 1992 16:08:41 GMT
Organization: University of Wisconsin - Milwaukee
Reply-To: hiho@csd4.csd.uwm.edu
NNTP-Posting-Host: 129.89.7.4
Originator: hiho@csd4.csd.uwm.edu

From article <1992Dec12.121527.28065@physiol.su.OZ.AU>, by john@physiol.su.OZ.AU (John Mackin):
> Someone (the articles have all expired) suggested some weeks ago that
> there may have been a Qabalistic connection of some kind between
> Binah and the number 333.  Of course, this is the number of Choronzon/
> Shugal, who would traditionally be held to be in Daath rather than
> Binah.  I asked for discussion in a followup to their article and
> haven't seen any.


Ahem.

333 = 3 x 111.

Do the math.  ;-)


hiho
-- 
mark ce peterson   | uw-washington county  | hiho@csd4.csd.uwm.edu 
dept of philosophy | west bend, wi.  53095 | (414) 335-5200        

     The shorter the tether, the sooner the goat starves.
Newsgroups: alt.magick
From: mitchell@seas.smu.edu (Utopium Enterprizes)
Subject: Re: Pentagrams
Organization: Utopium Enterprizes
Distribution: alt.magick
Date: Tue, 15 Dec 1992 23:15:54 GMT

Here's the way I approach the pentagram...

The classical description of a "good" pentagram prescribes that a single point
is directed upwards, whereas an "evil" pentagram would have two points upwards.
Right off the bat, I see two cases of relativity which would complicate any
definitive definition. 

The first one, the case of moralistic relativity, I will not consider; I am 
sure that there are many here who could argue eloquently on this subject
(Thyagi? :) ), and to me the point is moot. Even the old Order of the Golden
Dawn recognized that there could be "an absolute necessity" for drawing the
inverted pentagram (Israel Regardie, *The Golden Dawn*, Book Four, p. 9).

The second type of relativity is best appreciated if you consider the pos-
sibility of magick off this planet. Suppose you were on the moon, and wished
to draw a Pentagram. Which way would you point the uppermost point? Away from
the planet Earth? If you did that, it would appear as an inverted pentagram
to you. Try doing the same thing in a spaceship. Then the appearance of the
pentagram could change wildly, from upright to inverted to anything in between.
And, of course, if you originally intended to draw an earth pentagram, it could
appear to be a water pentagram, or any other variety of pentagram. 

You're basically stuck with a decision to make. Are you going to let the earth
determine the kind of pentagram, or will you let yourself be the reference?
There are arguments for both. On the one hand, since the earth is a planet,
and since there are rituals that require knowledge of the general location of
a planet in the sky, there is a precedent for using the earth. On the other
hand, since I am the magician, I like the idea of using myself to determine
which way is up and which is down. It has deeper meaning for me this way. But,
admittedly I have not been practising magick (consciously) for very long, and
more important reasons may override my own.

Either way, it seems to me that it is the individual that determines the kind
of pentagram, not how it is drawn. And in that perspective, given that I think
that morality is relative, the two pentagrams appear the same except in intent.


-- 
                  Utopium Enterprizes - mitchell@seas.smu.edu
                  Martyrdom - it's just a stone's throw away!
Newsgroups: alt.magick
From: angelai@wam.umd.edu (Angela I.)
Subject: Re: books on childbirth customs
Organization: University of Maryland, College Park
Date: Wed, 16 Dec 1992 16:52:33 GMT

Speaking of childbirth, Shava (or Eddie), aren't you supposed to
become parents sometime soon?  (Or maybe you already did, and I
missed it...)  


-- 
**************************  angelai@wam.umd.edu  ****************************