From: ykhsu@cbnewsf.cb.att.com (yung-kao.hsu)
Subject: Re: more than 50% support TI
Organization: AT&T
Date: Wed, 30 Dec 1992 15:11:37 GMT

In article <1992Dec29.225422.19523@cbnews.cb.att.com> liaohen@cbnews.cb.att.com (Heng-Hsin Liao) writes:
>From article <1992Dec29.201716.19891@cbfsb.cb.att.com>, by ykhsu@cbnewsf.cb.att.com (yung-kao.hsu):
>> 
>> 	I think many TIers are working with the wrong agenda. To reach
>> 	the goal of TI, like it or not, China is the key. As long as
>                                        ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>I disagree. People in Taiwan is the key.

	IMO, we don't have a disagreement; it's a chicken and egg problem.
	I believe people who oppose TI mostly because of likely instability
	that may be caused by a hostile China. To win those people over, you
	need to deal with China to create a less hostile situation.
	Many good arguments of TIers' are based on some assumptions on what
	China cannot and will not do. It is those assumptions that TIers
	need to work on to convince people. Too often, heated debates going
	nowhere in this group because people deadlocked on those assumptions.
>...
>between these two. I did mention international affairs. But you are
>right. China is probably the biggest part of it.

	You see, we have no disagreement here.

>> 	Let time decide what we will do when circumstances change while we
>> 	attempt something will help our causes no matter what may happen.
>> 	Certainly, this is not doing nothing.
>
>There is a bottom line by letting time decide what we will do - unification.

	You should have stronger belief of your ideal. I can see why people
	would favor TI even with a rational and wealth China.
	Self-determination is more likely to blossom when there are less 
	external pressures.

	The will to create a new nation should be strong enough to endure
	challenge of time, otherwise, even if you have a new nation, it
	will not last long.

>What if China don't buy our effort toward mutual understanding eventually?

	Simple, you let people decide what should be their choices then;
	but you have to try first and convice people that you have tried
	hard enough.
>...
>independence is the way to go? There will be little time for us
>to think about a smooth transition and execute it. That's why I said
>we need to prepare for it earlier than we say it.

	Once you can win people's minds at that time, you can expect a
	smooth transition. No time will be enough if you can not win
	the hearts of vast majority (yes, I think a simple majority
	would be too feeble for a new nation).

>Do you agree that one of the major obstacles against Taiwan's jumping
>levels higher is that we are still nobody to most of the important
>international organizations? There's not much we can do on it if

	I don't quite understand what you meant by "levels higher".
	I mean, based on what I observed in U.S., I think people
	probably put Taiwan and S. Korea at the same level image-wise.

	If you mean by being part of important international organizations?
	Then, yes, that would be nice and worth earning; but I don't
	think I will risk much for it. Again, the problem here is how
	to deal with China.

>we let time go by and probably attempt "something." If Taiwan have
>problem to jump to higher level, it is quite possible that we will
>be sandwiched by Japan and Guangdong/Fujian. You know what is going

	I am really confused. It seems you are implying TI can help
	economical competition. Well, it may be but I can think of
	many more direct and cost-effective ways of achieving it.

	Well, I think I express my stupid thoughts more than enough
	and it's time for me to press 'n' for these related topics
	again.

Yung-Kao Hsu

Newsgroups: soc.culture.taiwan