HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: eu507dac@pts.mot.com (DOUG CHRISTENSEN X3915 P6818)
Subject: Re: Car-to-car contact at high speeds
Reply-To: eu507dac@pts.mot.com
Organization: Paging and Wireless Data Group
Date: Sun, 13 Dec 1992 16:10:57 GMT

In article h2caq@rpi.edu, kaminl@aix.rpi.edu (Matt Garretson) writes:
>
>  I have a question, but first, here is the background:
>
>A few weeks ago, I saw an accident (via my rearview mirror, thank god) in
>which a car in the center lane started to pull into the left. Only problem
>was that there was a car already in the left lane, in the first car's blind 
>spot. So the car in the left lane freaked out and swerved to the left so
>as to avoid being hit by the first car. But there was a cement divider, so
>the car in the left lane bounced off it and right across the middle and right
>lanes, causing a many-car pileup.  
>
>At least, that's what it looked like. So my question is this:
>
>   Suppose I'm going along in the left lane maybe 70mph, and a car to my
>right starts to come into my lane where I already am (i.e. to bump into
>my right side). There is no shoulder to the left to swerve into safely-
>only a guardrail (or oncoming traffic! :( ).  I don't want to end up 
>bouncing all over the place like the car above. And I can't brake quickly
>since there are cars on my tail (%^*&@! tailgaters). So, is it a good idea
>to steer into the car, with the intention of keeping it from pushing me
>where I don't want to go? ... (rest deleted)

I saw some respones to this question that disturbed me.  Lets set up the sen-
ario.  You are in the left lane and (I assume) in blind spot left side of a car
in the right lane.  Your RF tire is next to his LR.  I am assuming this this 
because if you farther forward, he would see you car in his periferal (sp?) vision.

Now if he steers left, your RF contacts his LR.  If you steer into him, you 
will effectivly steer him more to the left (your FR corner will pivot his
car counter clockwise, or to the left).  Now you will have a car perpendiclular
to you car in front of you, his drivers door to your front bumper.  Not good.

This is actually a method taught to the police and protective agencies on how to 
stop a car.  You put your front quarter to his rear quarter and steer into him.
Perpetrator spins off the road right around your front.  Ever seen a NACAR Race?

Recommendations.  Don't stay in blind spots.  Look at the situation of the other
car.  Does he need to change lanes?  Chances are, you can tell when someone is 
about to change lanes.  Either give them enough room to squeeze in (just in case)
or keep your front bumper in his view.  Horns work great too.  If you are going to
hit, probably better to get hit in the back (straight in the back).  You can take
a pretty good shot in the back without much fuss, even at speed. Have you seen
a SCCA Showroom Stock Race?

---
Doug Christensen    SCCA SSB Scirocco 16V
doug_christensen@pts.mot.com
     _____
   _/_|__|\__
  | _ |61| _ \
 <-(_)----(_)-^       "When I'm racing, I'm alive.  Everthing else
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^    is just waiting."  Steve McQueen, Le Mans.
From: russotto@eng.umd.edu (Matthew T. Russotto)
Newsgroups: rec.autos.driving
Subject: Re: Staying Alive, Autobahn Speedlimits, Grassy Medians
Date: 16 Dec 92 04:11:17 GMT
Organization: Project GLUE, University of Maryland, College Park

In article <1992Dec14.151650.1471@kocrsv01.delcoelect.com> c23st@kocrsv01.delcoelect.com (Spiros Triantafyllopoulos) writes:

>The purpose of the median is that it provides a permanent U-turn lane for
>cops cruising with the radar on on the other side, or a nice HIDING place
>for speed traps...

This reminds me of one of my favorite sights.  A cop, just having
given a ticket to some guy in a jacked-up pickup, found himself unable
to get back out of the median which the pickup had driven up and left.

(had the cop any brains, he would have driven along the median to a
shallower spot, instead of trying to get out the way the pickup did.
But if he had brains, would he be a traffic cop?)
-- 
Matthew T. Russotto	russotto@eng.umd.edu	russotto@wam.umd.edu
Some news readers expect "Disclaimer:" here.
Just say NO to police searches and seizures.  Make them use force.
(not responsible for bodily harm resulting from following above advice)
Newsgroups: rec.autos.driving,misc.legal
From: cescript@mtu.edu (Charles Scripter)
Subject: Re: Cars, tape recorders, and the police...
Organization: Michigan Technological University
Distribution: usa
Date: Sun, 20 Dec 1992 00:20:11 GMT

In article <1992Dec18.133631.13600@porthos.cc.bellcore.com>,
whs70@dancer.cc.bellcore.com (sohl,william h) writes:

> The police do have the right to videotape as far as I know.
> [...]
> That being the case, I don't think it is
> correct to say "If the police were granted..." since they have had
> that "right" all the time and have been videotaping unchallenged for 
> several years.

I don't think *Right* is the correct word here (unless you meant to
say that *all* people have the Right to videotape...).  If the police
have RIGHTS beyond that of ordinary Citizens, then we have a problem.
The police may be granted *powers* to do so, however.

> I also agree that any citizen has an automatic right
> to "wire" himself, his car, his home (with some exceptions to 
> recording of telephone conversations in some states),
> etc. for recording purposes
> and is under no penalty of law for doing so.

OK, I guess by this you mean the *everyone* has the Right to videotape,
or record conflicts, or discussions.  I agree!

-- 
Charles Scripter   *   cescript@phy.mtu.edu
Dept of Physics, Michigan Technological University, Houghton, MI 49931
-------------------------------------------------------------------
With your one remaining eye, please do NOT look back into the laser
Newsgroups: rec.autos.driving
From: tonym@world.std.com (Tony Matt)
Subject: Re: Police Intimidation
Organization: The World Public Access UNIX, Brookline, MA
Date: Mon, 14 Dec 1992 16:21:27 GMT

In article <trussell.724125811@cwis> trussell@cwis.unomaha.edu (Tim Russell) writes:
>tonym@world.std.com (Tony Matt) writes:
>
>>There was a Supreme Court case in the 80s that, if I remember correctly,
>>established that search warrants are not necessary to search a motor
>>vehicle on a public thoroughfare.  I believe that 'probable cause' was
>>the standard deemed constitutional.  I have not heard of any revisions
>>to that case (refinements of probable cause notwithstanding).
>
>    And it has also been decided by the Supreme Court (I can't cite the
>actual case) that failure to consent to a search does NOT constitute
>probable cause in any way, shape, or form.

Perhaps not, but once the officer is at your window, his/her nose is under
the tent, and probable cause can be established (in the officer's mind,
anyway) by the observations made.  Although this does not give her/him
carte blanche to fabricate support for suspicions, it does, I believe, 
provide a fair amount of latitude for supposition and 'honest mistakes'
before evidence can be suppressed or civil rights violations established.
From: jimf@centerline.com (Jim Frost)
Newsgroups: rec.autos.driving
Subject: Re: Staying Alive, Autobahn Speedlimits, Grassy Medians
Date: 14 Dec 92 18:35:18 GMT
Organization: CenterLine Software, Inc.
NNTP-Posting-Host: 140.239.3.202

waco@cbnewse.cb.att.com (john.l.broughton) writes:


>In article <1992Dec14.044700.29977@samba.oit.unc.edu> Mike.Oniffrey@launchpad
>.unc.edu (Mike Oniffrey) writes

>### stuff deleted ###
>>Early in 1992, a westbound morning commuter, after having been bounced
>>around by other vehicles, crossed the grassy median and met oncoming
>>eastbound traffic on I-40 at a particularly busy section near the Research
>### more4 stuff deleted ###

>Isn't it nice how the average U.S. interstate was designed with those smooth
>grassy medians, for the most part?  IMHO, if states and the federal government
>are interested in reducing deaths on interstates, there would  be barriers
>in medians; trees, shrubs, concrete, whatever, to keep vehicles from crossing
>over and having head-on collisions with traffic travelling in the opposite 
>direction.  This seems to be a very common cause of fatalaties on interstates
>and expressways.

It depends on the state.  Many states put concrete barriers between
the lanes.  In most parts of NH interstates have a large grassy area
that's basically a wide, deep ditch (often with trees, but often not);
you'd have to put a lot of effort into it to make it all the way
across no matter how fast you were going.  Most places in MA have
either concrete barriers or steel barriers and they get used a lot.

jim frost
jimf@centerline.com
From: kaminl@aix.rpi.edu (Matt Garretson)
Newsgroups: rec.autos.driving
Subject: Car-to-car contact at high speeds
Date: 12 Dec 92 20:31:14 GMT
Organization: Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute, Troy, NY


  I have a question, but first, here is the background:

A few weeks ago, I saw an accident (via my rearview mirror, thank god) in
which a car in the center lane started to pull into the left. Only problem
was that there was a car already in the left lane, in the first car's blind 
spot. So the car in the left lane freaked out and swerved to the left so
as to avoid being hit by the first car. But there was a cement divider, so
the car in the left lane bounced off it and right across the middle and right
lanes, causing a many-car pileup.  

At least, that's what it looked like. So my question is this:

   Suppose I'm going along in the left lane maybe 70mph, and a car to my
right starts to come into my lane where I already am (i.e. to bump into
my right side). There is no shoulder to the left to swerve into safely-
only a guardrail (or oncoming traffic! :( ).  I don't want to end up 
bouncing all over the place like the car above. And I can't brake quickly
since there are cars on my tail (%^*&@! tailgaters). So, is it a good idea
to steer into the car, with the intention of keeping it from pushing me
where I don't want to go? I don't mean swerving into it, but trying to
exert enough pressure once contact is made to maintain my own position,
and hopefully give the other driver enough time to correct his steering.
Will side-to-side contact between cars be disasterous at 70mph?  It
seems to work ok in the movies, anyway.  What is the best thing to do in
a situation like this? I know there are many variables, but any
comments would be appreciated.

Thanks,
Matt 
Newsgroups: rec.autos.driving
From: spatton@lamar.ColoState.EDU (Samuel Patton)
Subject: Cross Country Drive
Date: Wed, 16 Dec 1992 20:47:32 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: Colorado State University, Fort Collins, CO  80523

I am planning to drive home to Cincinnati OH via I-70 at the beginning of 
next week.  I guess that I will leave on Monday.  Is there anyone out there
that will be cruising the highways this Christmas?  Once I hit Indianapolis
I take I-71 into Cincy.  Are there any "must" stops along I-70 or anywhere
that someone knows of a frequent speed trap(s)???

Any info. would be appreciated and anyone who wants to do a little driving
look for me on I-70.... Also still have no one to ride along so anyone at
CSU or along the way that needs to go to Cincy or anywhere before it... I
could use the company....

Sam


------------------------------------------------------------------------------
|   Sam Patton -=> spatton@lamar.colostate.edu                               |
|   1978 Pontiac Trans Am - 400 / 4-speed       | Cross Country Tour 1992/93 |
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: c23st@kocrsv01.delcoelect.com (Spiros Triantafyllopoulos)
Newsgroups: rec.autos.driving
Subject: Re: Staying Alive, Autobahn Speedlimits, Grassy Medians
Date: 14 Dec 92 15:16:50 GMT
Organization: Delco Electronics Corp.

In article <1992Dec14.150942.14006@cbnewse.cb.att.com> waco@cbnewse.cb.att.com (john.l.broughton) writes:
>Isn't it nice how the average U.S. interstate was designed with those smooth
>grassy medians, for the most part?  IMHO, if states and the federal government
>are interested in reducing deaths on interstates, there would  be barriers
>in medians; trees, shrubs, concrete, whatever, to keep vehicles from crossing
>over and having head-on collisions with traffic travelling in the opposite 
>direction.  This seems to be a very common cause of fatalaties on interstates
>and expressways.

Trees, shrubs, and concrete barriers all defeat the purpose of the median
on US interstates. 

The purpose of the median is that it provides a permanent U-turn lane for
cops cruising with the radar on on the other side, or a nice HIDING place
for speed traps...

:-)

Spiros
-- 
Spiros Triantafyllopoulos                    c23st@kocrsv01.delcoelect.com
Software Technology, Delco Electronics       (317) 451-0815
GM Hughes Electronics, Kokomo, IN 46904      [A Different Kind of Disclaimer]
Newsgroups: rec.autos.driving
From: rbusch@watarts.uwaterloo.ca (Robert Busch)
Subject: What are some common myths about driving?
Organization: University of Waterloo
Distribution: na
Date: Thu, 17 Dec 1992 20:47:07 GMT


It's illegal to drive in bare feet!   

Actually, it's not -- at least in Ontario -- but that's the sort
of myth that I'm interested in hearing about.

I'm developing a rather simple software package to be used by 
people who are preparing to get their license; basically, it's
an electronic, hypertext-like version of the standard "rules of
the road" booklets distributed by most governments.

As a small part of this package, I'm debunking common myths and
misconceptions about driving. For instance, that bare feet thing
that I mentioned above. Another one (again, in Ontario), is that
it's illegal to change lanes in an intersection; I realize that
it's often *stupid* to change lanes in an intersection, but it's
certainly not illegal.

So here's a call for help: send me your myths! I'm concerned
mostly with Ontario laws, but I'd also like to address issues
about driving in general (e.g., if you turn the steering wheel
too fast, your car will flip over and go tumbling down the 
road).

If there's interest, I'll post a summary in January.

Let's hear some good ones!

Bob
<rbusch@watarts.uwaterloo.ca>
Newsgroups: rec.autos.driving
From: bwalts@lamar.ColoState.EDU (Brandon Walts)
Subject: Re: Cars, tape recorders, and the police...
Date: Sun, 13 Dec 1992 21:54:05 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: Colorado State University, Fort Collins, CO  80523

In article <1992Dec11.060145.27603@netcom.com> linley@netcom.com (Bruce James Robrert Linley) writes:
>
>While swapping police harassment stories with some friends we came up with
>an interesting idea: place a hidden tape recorder in the car with three
>microphones (one in the front of the car, one in the back of the car, and
>one inside the car). The tape recorder will be activated by a single switch
>under the dash. Now, when the red & blue lights start flashing behind you,
>you casually flip on the recorder and record everything that happens in and
>around the vehicle. The question is, can anything you record be legally 
>used against the cops (without telling them they're being recorded)?
>
In Colorado, (and I'm pretty sure this is the way the law works nationwide),
as long as *one* of the parties involved is aware of and consents to the
recording, the recording is legal.  This applies to phone conversations,
hidden cameras, hidden microphones, etc.

bwalts@lamar.colostate.edu
From: stresres@mentor.cc.purdue.edu (Mark Vanetten)
Newsgroups: rec.autos.driving
Subject: Re: 5-speed in the snow
Date: 14 Dec 92 21:55:58 GMT
Distribution: na
Organization: Purdue University Computing Center

As far as steel wheels in the snow, it is so the salt and curb-jobs don't 
wreck your nice wheels, also you don't have to mount and balance every time
the weather changes.


Mark
Newsgroups: rec.autos.driving
From: mengsoo@bnr.ca (Meng Soo)
Subject: Re: "Most Tastelss Car Accessory Listing"
Reply-To: mengsoo@bnr.ca (Meng Soo)
Organization: Bell-Northern Research Ltd.
Date: Fri, 11 Dec 92 22:21:54 GMT


> Free pass into the Counter-Bad-Taste Hall of Fame for anyone who puts
> "My Other Car Is Also a VW" on a Porsche.

ANY bumper sticker on a Porsche is in bad taste. IMHO ;)

Meng

--

W. Meng Soo     Bell-Northern Research Ltd., Ottawa, CANADA
Xref: sparky rec.autos.driving:7214 rec.autos:29760
From: jimf@centerline.com (Jim Frost)
Newsgroups: rec.autos.driving,rec.autos
Subject: Re: Tinted windows law ??
Date: 14 Dec 1992 21:48:33 GMT
Organization: CenterLine Software, Inc.
Distribution: usa
NNTP-Posting-Host: 140.239.3.202

john@rachel.storcon.com (John Hunley) writes:
>The applicable paragraph in the CVC is 26708.  It's too long to quote here
>in full, but basically what it says (disclaimer: this is my own personal
>interpretation, I'm not a lawyer, don't come running to me if you get nailed)
>is that you may not operate with "any object or material placed, displayed,
>installed, affixed, or applied upon the windshield or side or rear windows."
>Side windows to the rear of the driver are exempted (26708b4), as is the rear
>window IF you have mirrors on both left- and right-hand sides (26708b8).
>Tinted safety glass is permitted by 26708.5b.  Therefore, the basic distinction
>is whether you have tinted glass or tinting that is stuck onto the glass.
>There's no mention of "factory" vs. "third party."  A third-party tint job
>would be legal if it was done by replacing the windshield and front windows
>with tinted safety glass, rather than by sticking or painting something onto
>the existing glass.

This is a little off the subject but...

Sounds like university stickers (and the ilk) would be illegal if you
didn't have mirrors on both sides.  Same with bumper stickers on the
rear window.

Is there a specific exemption for inspection stickers (particularly
for out-of-state vehicles)?  What about those little yellow stickers
that Hertz puts on the corner of their rental car windshields?

It's hard to tell without a copy of the CVC but it sounds like that's
one law that's violated left, right, and sideways.

jim frost
jimf@centerline.com

Newsgroups: rec.autos.driving
From: tedebear@leland.Stanford.EDU (Theodore Chen)
Subject: Re: Car-to-car contact at high speeds
Organization: DSG, Stanford University, CA 94305, USA
Date: Sun, 13 Dec 92 23:08:05 GMT

In article <1992Dec13.161057.7835@pts1.pts.mot.com> eu507dac@pts.mot.com writes:
>This is actually a method taught to the police and protective agencies on
>how to stop a car.  You put your front quarter to his rear quarter and
>steer into him.  Perpetrator spins off the road right around your front.
>Ever seen a NACAR Race?
>Doug Christensen    SCCA SSB Scirocco 16V
>doug_christensen@pts.mot.com

this is a good point.  autoweek had an article describing a school
that taught these methods.
From: scott@psy.uwa.oz.au (Scott Fisher)
Newsgroups: rec.autos.driving
Subject: Re: More Police Intimidation
Date: 17 Dec 1992 05:20:25 GMT
Organization: The University of Western Australia
NNTP-Posting-Host: wapsy.psy.uwa.oz.au

twj2@jaguar.uofs.edu writes:

>  I can definitely sympathize with the original writers.  I'm 17
>and I drive a 1973 Malibu.  I have been stopped and questioned
>numerous times without much good reason.

>       1. Friday night last fall.  I'm driving along in traffic
>and I slide over toward the middle of the car to roll down the
>passenger side window (the Malibu is a big car!) and then slide
>back and refasten my seat belt.  I never even left the lane although
>I did jerk the wheel once or twice.  Anyways a local police officer
>pulled me over, put me through the third degree about where I was
>coming from, what I was doing, etc...  I was there on the side of the road
>for about thirty minutes while my car was searched and I was put through
>a battery of simple DUI tests.  (I was NOT drunk.)  I was let go with
>a 'warning'.  For what?

Dangerous driving.  Driving without a seat-belt (or is this not compulsery 
in the US?) 

Scott.
_______________________________________________________________________________
Scott Fisher [scott@psy.uwa.oz.au]  PH: Aus [61] Perth (09) Local (380 3272).                
                                                             _--_|\       N
Department of Psychology                                    /      \    W + E
University of Western Australia.      Perth [32S, 116E]-->  *_.--._/      S
Nedlands, 6009.  PERTH, W.A.                                      v       

Joy is a Jaguar XJ6 with a flat battery, a blown oil seal and an unsympathetic 
wife, 9km outside of a small remote town, 3:15am on a cold wet winters morning.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: bob1@cos.com (Bob Blackshaw)
Newsgroups: rec.autos.driving
Subject: Re: Snow and 4x4's
Date: 11 Dec 92 17:17:55 GMT
Distribution: na
Organization: Corporation for Open Systems

In <1g89reINN31b@gilligan.East.Sun.COM> mike@gilligan.East.Sun.COM (Mike Roncadori) writes:

>In article <1992Dec10.144049.7860@aplcen.apl.jhu.edu> jern@visual1.jhuapl.edu (Bob Jernigan) writes:
>#
>#Well it's happening again.  Today we are having our first
>#snow of the year and the 4x4's are crashing, along with the
>#4x2's, of course.  I saw several in trouble this morning on
>#the way to work.  Why would they think that a 4x4 has more
>#braking, turning traction than any other vehicle?
>#
>#bob  (Happy CJ7 driver today :-))

>I guess they're stupid enough to let that easy takeoff
>lull them into thinking it can brake, steer, etc. just
>as well. It kind of amazes me, but I guess they don't
>give it a thought, until it's too late. I just hope
>they don't smash into me, while discovering their mor-
>tality.

>-- Mike (happy 4x4 pickup driver)

Yeah, wasn't that fun! Took me three damn hours to get from western
Howard Co. to Fairfax. All those drivers out there getting winter
diving training - you would have thought they would do it at off
peak hours. Saw at least 4 cars ditched coming down 97.

The real chuckle was watching all the other driver's faces when
my lil' ol Probe pulled away in the middle of a hill with no
wheelspin and stopped going down with no slide. Saw more than
one RWD burning up the pavement and fishtailing its way (slowly)
up the hills. You would think they would learn in time. Of
course 30 years practice in Canadian winters may have helped me
just a little.

Tonight looks even more promising, what with the Montgomery Co
storm warning. I wonder where they learned their winter roads
maintenance techniques? maybe in Saudi Arabia?

--- Bob (happy Probe driver - this thing is more fun than my first puppy)


>------------------------------------------------------------
>My opinions - not my employer's
Newsgroups: rec.autos.driving