HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: spain@galvia.enet.dec.com ()
Subject: Re: Going to Ireland
Reply-To: spain@galvia.enet.dec.com ()
Organization: Digital Equipment Corporation
Date: Fri, 22 Jan 1993 11:39:30 GMT

--

In article <dowling.14@main.mndly.umn.edu>, dowling@main.mndly.umn.edu writes:

|>On my vacation last summer, I drove through Northern Ireland, cutting from 
|>Co. Donegal to Co. Cavan. The police state scared me, but I'd like to see 
|>more of the scenery. My question: IS IT SAFE? Really? And even if it is, 
|>which cities/neighborhoods/streetcorners should I avoid?

Yes it is although many people in the Republic won't cross the border.
There is always the chance you could be unlucky but it's a lot safer
than most American cities.  You're more likely to be killed crossing the
road than by a terrorist.

I'd advise keeping out of the Catholic and protestant ghettoes.  You'll
be fine in any of the tourist areas - Antrim coast, mountains of Mourne.
I like Belfast but there is a spate of sectarian shootings in North Belfast
at the moment.  The city centre and South Belfast are fine.  The East is mainly
protestant and the west is Catholic.  Neither side targets tourists.


|>Question Two: is there anything going on between March 20th and April 1? I'm 
|>hoping to avoid the St. Patrick's Day crush (if any).

Actually there never is a St Patrick's day crush.

|>Any other advice would be much appreciated (posted or E-mailed), especially 
|>anything about Dublin and Co. Donegal. Those were my favorite stops on a 
|>grand tour.
|>

Donegal is really beautiful.  The coastline in West Donegal is really
spectacular.  go west from Killybegs.  Sliabh League (spelling?) etc
are well worth a visit.  You could easily spend 2 weeks in Donegal.  
Malin Head and the whole peninsula is also well worth seeing.


       Gary Spain, DEC, Galway, Ireland   - spain@galvia.enet.dec.com

  On being a football fan: "I am aware of the downside to this wonderful 
  facility that men have: they become repressed, they fail in their 
  relationships with women,their conversation is trivial and boorish, they 
  find themselves unable to express their emotional needs, they cannot relate
  to their children, and die lonely and miserable. But you know, what the hell?"
								   Nick Hornby
From: mike@fionn.lbl.gov (Michael Helm)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.celtic
Subject: Re: Need Info ABout SF Irish Festival (Mar 6-7)
Date: 23 Jan 1993 20:42:46 GMT
Organization: N.I.C.E.
Reply-To: mike@fionn.lbl.gov (Michael Helm)
NNTP-Posting-Host: 128.3.128.60

James Doak <doak@bnr.ca> writes:
>Can anyone add additional info about the Irish Festival in San Francisco
>on March 6-7. I understand that Delores Keane is playing.

Here is the Dirty Linen calendar entry for it.  I have been
meaning to call about the performers, staging, &c but haven't had the time.

March 6 - 7  2nd Annual San Francisco Celtic Music & Arts Festival/Fort

    Mason/San Francisco, CA [Irish Arts Foundation/ P.O. Box 460577/ San

    Francisco, CA 94146. Phone 415/751-4883, FAX 415/751-4883] Sharon Shannon,

    Dolores Keane, more

>Venues?
>Comments about past festivals?

The festival itself is a lot of fun.  Interesting vendors, a lot
of good music & the like for sale, nice t shirts, the books could've
been better.

Last year the whole thing was jammed into a warehouse-like building on
the Ft Mason site & it seems the same is happening this year.  For the
musical performances, as far as I am concerned, this was not handled
well at all, the sound was horrible (as you'd expect from an old
warehouse) & it wasn't helped by conflict with an improvised saloon at
the end of the hall opposite the stage; the noise from this meat
market singles bar could drown out the stage at times, no mean feat.
It's not like this problem was a secret to the promoters, I would
expect they'd try to do better this time, but I don't have any idea
what will be done.
From: riordanm@cs.tcd.ie (Mark Riordan)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.celtic
Subject: Re: Currency Crises and the British Press.
Date: 27 Jan 93 15:34:52 GMT
Distribution: soc.culture.celtic soc.culture.british
Organization: Trinity College, Dublin (Computer Science)

An interesting suggestion in the British Press was that the Mark
should as the currency out of step leave the exchange rate mechanism
until it was being a little less tearaway. That way everyone else 
might have been able to work in relative harmony. Don't ask me 
whether this was a good idea or not.

The Irish government and their advisors seem to have handled one
aspect of this whole business well in that they have resisted
pressures to make hasty decisions and secured (to some extent)
EC support which was not initially forthcoming. Whether we can
afford the current situation or not is another matter.

MARK


-- 
--
| riordanm@cs.tcd.ie	Mark Riordan, MIPS Project		|
|			Computer Science Dept. Trinity College	|
| 			Dublin 2, Ireland			|
Newsgroups: soc.culture.celtic
From: riordanm@cs.tcd.ie (Mark Riordan)
Subject: Re: Currency Crises and the British Press.
Organization: Trinity College, Dublin (Computer Science)
Distribution: soc.culture.celtic soc.culture.british
Date: Tue, 26 Jan 1993 09:37:00 GMT

In article <RUAIRI.93Jan25165639@silvia.sy.ssl.fujitsu.co.jp> ruairi@sy.ssl.fujitsu.co.jp (Ruairi.H) writes:
>
>  Hiya Everyone,
>                I've benn hearing stories out here that the British
>press is trying to cause/encourage a devaluation of the Irish Punt.
>Does anybody know why/where these allegations came from or care to
>comment about them (if they're true).
>                   

They are obviously jealous of the punt being the most valuable
currency in the world, and that by implication we obviously
have the world's strongest economy and are soon set to 
overtake the world economic powers as the most powerful economic
entity the world has ever seen.

MARK
-- 
--
| riordanm@cs.tcd.ie	Mark Riordan, MIPS Project		|
|			Computer Science Dept. Trinity College	|
| 			Dublin 2, Ireland			|
Newsgroups: soc.culture.celtic
From: crdunlea@rodan.acs.syr.EDU (Christopher R. Dunlea)
Subject: Re: This Favorite Lie Again.
Organization: Syracuse University, Syracuse, NY
Date: Sun, 24 Jan 93 02:34:45 EST

In article <30350@optima.cs.arizona.edu> gln@cs.arizona.edu (Gary L. Newell) writes:
>In article <1993Jan20.043445.18913@newstand.syr.edu>, crdunlea@rodan.acs.syr.EDU (Christopher R. Dunlea) writes:
>> The British are not the problem and are in somewhat as much of a quandary as 
>> anyone. It is the Unionists who demand British government and troops, not the
>> UK. Politically, Whitehall is trapped.
>
>Oh - poor babies... ggez - how did they ever get into such an unfair
>situation? I can't imagine...
>
>> will EVER blockade the UK?!! You forget that both Australia and Canada have
>> the Queen as head of State. And the US will always back Britain against Ireland
>
>And you knocked this guy for his history???!!?? Geezuz... 
>
Instead of sneering, Gary, why don't you offer some proof to the
contrary? Can you disprove anything printed above? Are you
disagreeing with the interpretation? Your mouth's writing checks
that your mind can't cash. Explain why I'm wrong, or begone with
your attitude.

Chris

Newsgroups: soc.culture.celtic
From: pauls@gpb-mac (Paul Stendebach)
Subject: Need Info:Ancient Irish History, pre-Ugaine the Great
Organization: SPS
X-Newsreader: Tin 1.1 PL4
Distribution: w
Date: Mon, 25 Jan 1993 14:19:28 GMT

1) I'm looking for info about  the arrival of Jeremiah and Tea Tephi.
    a) Where and when did they land?
    b) Can anyone recommend any good books that cover this subject?
    c) What names were these people using after their arrival in Ireland?
       
2) Is anyone familiar with the Irish fleet of ships that defended the
   Irish coast from the Roman fleet - ships that had no sails, yet out-
   maneuvered the Roman ships. I've only heard faint stories about this
   and, since most people are of the opinion that Ireland has no history
   of ship building, it is hard to get any confirmation on this. Any
   info would be greatly appreciated.

Xref: sparky soc.culture.celtic:8985 soc.culture.british:19640
From: mmh@dcs.qmw.ac.uk (Matthew Huntbach)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.celtic,soc.culture.british
Subject: Re: This Favorite Lie Again.
Date: 28 Jan 93 09:16:58 GMT
Organization: Computer Science Dept, QMW, University of London, UK.

In article <1993Jan28.060857.8387@massey.ac.nz> Eamonn Gormley <E.P.Gormley@massey.ac.nz> writes:
> With respect any initiative on NI, your last sentence must be the
>understatement of the century, true as it is.  What I would be interested
>to hear from you, is what the unionists forsee as the long term permanent
>solution?

I am not an Ulster Unionist. The only point to my postings is
to indicate just how difficult the situation is, and to show
how the sort of quick-fix solutions which are so often proposed
in this newsgroup would just fall down on Unionist
intransigence.

In fact there are two divergent strand in Ulster Unionism, one
of which seeks closer integration with the rest of the UK,
("Ulster is as British as Finchley"), the other of which seeks
a virtually independent state with the present borders run under
majority rule. Both strands would put strongly the view that
the main problem in NI today is that the security forces are
not repressive enough and are too tolerant of the Republicans
("the IRA could be defeated tomorrow if the British government
put their minds to it").

Matthew Huntbach
From: mike@nuada.lbl.gov (Michael Helm)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.celtic
Subject: Re: Irish Books/U.S. Bookshops
Date: 26 Jan 1993 19:14:29 GMT
Organization: N.I.C.E.
Reply-To: mike@nuada.lbl.gov (Michael Helm)
NNTP-Posting-Host: 128.3.128.62

Christopher R. Dunlea writes:
crd> Culture [in Ireland?]before 1800 had absolutely nothing to do with writing books.
mike>This is flat out wrong, at least in general about Ireland.
mike>Whose culture?  When?

#>I see your point, and will make allowances for the vagueness of the answer.
#>Beside the elite culture of the Ascendancy, however, very little of the
#>traditional culture of Ireland--that of the songs, poems, sagas, folktales
#>nd such--were part of an oral tradition. It was left to Lady Gregory and 
#>Yeats in the earliest part of our century to redact these traditions.

I'm confused by what you are saying here -- are you trying to say
that Yeats &al did or did not receive their Irish tales &c from folk
tradition, or from books, or what?  I'm trying to make allowances
for I think you mean, but it seems to me that what you've said here
is wrong too.
Newsgroups: soc.culture.celtic,soc.culture.british
From: sab@sunc4.informatik.tu-chemnitz.de (Sabine Schumann)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.celtic
Subject: Re: Glamis Castle
Date: 21 Jan 1993 08:30:29 +0100
Organization: University of Technology Chemnitz, FRG
NNTP-Posting-Host: sunc4.informatik.tu-chemnitz.de


In "Chambers guide to the Castles of Scotland" Susan Ross, pages 61-62

Glamis Castle
Glamis, by Forfar, Angus, Tayside.
5 miles west of Forfar on A94.

The present Glamis Castle belongs to a period when strength and impregnability
had long ceased to be the main objective of the tower house builder.
Consequently, the traditional stark lines of the basic castle have here been
decorated with an incredible amount of architectural decoration.
The present castle, which dates predominantly from the last quarter of the
17th century, contains fragments of a much earlier building thought to have
been the 14th century original. In fact experts agree that is has been the Lyon 
family home since that time. King Robert II granted the lands of Glamis to the
Lyon family (the Earls of Strathmore) in 1372, but whatever the exact date
of the original the present castle was rebuilt in the 17 th century by
Patrick Lyon, first Earl of Strathmore and Kinghorne, in French chateau style.
Shakespeare gave Macbeth the title of 'Thane of Glamis' although Macbeth's
castle in the pay was at Inverness. In 1715 the Old Pretender, the only son
of James II of England, stayed for a short while at the castle. It later
became the childhood home of Queen Elizabeth, the Queen Mother; and Princess
Margaret was born here in 1930. There are fine furnishings, paintings and
armour on view in the castle and in the beautiful grounds is a sundial with 84 
dials.

Open to the public, Sunday to Friday, May to September, 1-5pm.


Best wishes,

Sabine Schumann
sab@informatik.tu-chemnitz.de


Newsgroups: soc.culture.celtic
From: crdunlea@rodan.acs.syr.EDU (Christopher R. Dunlea)
Subject: Re: 8043
Organization: Syracuse University, Syracuse, NY
Date: Fri, 22 Jan 93 22:31:04 EST

In article <1993Jan21.205514.1@gallua.gallaudet.edu> rlwilliams@gallua.gallaudet.edu writes:
>Hi,
>	I just saw a copy of a book called "The Man Who Made Ireland," a 
>biography of Michael Collins. I wonder how this book was received in 
>Ireland. Is it popular? Well thought of? Is it considered accurate?
>
>Sorry if this has been discussed to death. I know the book has been out for 
>some time now.
>
Michael Collins as the "Man who made Ireland"? The last time I heard
that sort of tripe was when I was a senior in college. My advisor 
invited me to take a graduate course with him on Ireland to prepare me
for grad school, and it turned out he did the same to 2 sophomores who
were energetic students in one of his other classes. One of them made
a paper that was unbelievably in adulation of the importance of Collins--
much to the obvious disgust and/or derision of the real grad students.

Sounds all a bit overblown to me.

Chris
From: akolgan@uoft02.utoledo.edu
Newsgroups: soc.culture.celtic
Subject: Address of the Irish Embassy in US
Date: 25 Jan 93 18:04:04 GMT
Article-I.D.: uoft02.1993Jan25.130404.1275
Organization: University of Toledo, Computer Services

Hello,
Please give me address of the Irish Embassy in the U.S or a
Consulate nearest to Ohio...
Appreciated in advance.
E-mail me directly, please: Andy <fac4078@uoft01.bitnet>
Newsgroups: soc.culture.celtic,soc.culture.british
From: mmh@dcs.qmw.ac.uk (Matthew Huntbach)
Subject: Re: This Favorite Lie Again.
Organization: Computer Science Dept, QMW, University of London, UK.
Date: Thu, 21 Jan 1993 09:36:52 GMT

In article <1993Jan20.173334.16767@philabs.philips.com> dml@philabs.philips.com (Damian M. Lyons) writes:
>
>In article <1993Jan20.091504.363@dcs.qmw.ac.uk>, mmh@dcs.qmw.ac.uk (Matthew Huntbach) writes:
>|> In article <93019.150832U53644@uicvm.uic.edu> <U53644@uicvm.uic.edu> writes:
>|> >
>|> >    Before any IRA enthusiasts hit the ceiling, I'd like to make it clear
>|> >    that I despise the method the UK used to acquire NI (repopulate the
>|> >    place, then hold onto it in the name of local self-determination).
>|> >    If that principle had been applied elsewhere, Prague would probably
>|> >    be a German city right now
>|>
>|> And America wouldn't be run by its native Amerindians but by
>|> white settlers. Oh, it is. Oh.
>|>
>
>An the US is dealing with Native Rights issues today. The British government
>is not, as I have argued at length before.
>
The rough equivalent of 26 counties out of 32 is 38 states out
of 50. I see. So the USA is going to give 38 states back to the
Native Americans.

Matthew Huntbach
From: mike@fionn.lbl.gov (Michael Helm)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.celtic
Subject: Re: Irish Books/U.S. Bookshops
Date: 24 Jan 1993 21:33:17 GMT
Organization: N.I.C.E.
Reply-To: mike@fionn.lbl.gov (Michael Helm)
NNTP-Posting-Host: 128.3.128.60

Christopher R. Dunlea writes:
>Culture [in Ireland?]before 1800 had absolutely nothing to do with writing books.

This is flat out wrong, at least in general about Ireland.
Whose culture?  When?
Newsgroups: soc.culture.celtic,soc.culture.british
From: tim@maths.tcd.ie (Timothy Murphy)
Subject: Re: Trip to Ireland
Organization: Dept. of Maths, Trinity College, Dublin, Ireland.
Date: Fri, 22 Jan 1993 02:19:20 GMT

fi32@vaxb.acs.unt.edu (Phillip Lindman) writes:

>I travelled in Ireland for a few days while studying in Europe. When we got off
>the ferry, we expected to find a train to Dublin. It turned out that the train
>was not going to arrive until evening. As we waited around, a man walked up to
>us and said, "Going to Dublin? Got a minivan, 5 pounds each." He got 8 American
>students with travel luggage in his minivan, drove like a bat out of, well, a
>very warm place, and got us to Dublin before the train even got to the ferry
>dock! That was an experience!


I don't really understand this.
If the ferry came to Dun Laoghaire,
there are trains every 15 minutes.
If it came to Rosslare, 
5 pounds was an incredible price.
(If it came to Dublin port -- B&I --
there are no trains.)

Incidentally, there are always good offers
of hotels with the ferry crossings
(usually 2-4 nights),
but the conditions are so complicated
only very clever people can work them out!





-- 
Timothy Murphy  
e-mail: tim@maths.tcd.ie
tel: +353-1-2842366
s-mail: School of Mathematics, Trinity College, Dublin 2, Ireland
From: cc@dcs.ed.ac.uk (Chris Cooke)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.celtic
Subject: Re: Currency Crises and the British Press.
Date: 26 Jan 93 10:41:29 GMT
Distribution: soc.culture.celtic soc.culture.british
Organization: Department of Computer Science, University of Edinburgh, Scotland

In article <RUAIRI.93Jan25165639@silvia.sy.ssl.fujitsu.co.jp> ruairi@sy.ssl.fujitsu.co.jp (Ruairi.H) writes:

     Hiya Everyone,
		   I've benn hearing stories out here that the British
   press is trying to cause/encourage a devaluation of the Irish Punt.
   Does anybody know why/where these allegations came from or care to
   comment about them (if they're true).

There's certainly been a lot of speculation in the British press about how
much longer the Irish and French currencies can survive at their present
exchange rates.  After all, both have gone very close to the bottom of their
permitted ERM level.

However, I don't think that it's a deliberate conspiracy by the press.  They
don't have the intelligence or the organisation to conspire a piss-up in a
brewery, and I can't see any motive.  It IS entirely possible, though, that
powerful speculators in the London financial markets are feeding false
rumours to the press, hoping that those rumours will have an effect on the
market.
--
	-- Chris. 	cc@dcs.ed.ac.uk   (on Janet, cc@uk.ac.ed.dcs)
From: mike@fionn.lbl.gov (Michael Helm)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.celtic
Subject: Re: Irish Books/U.S. Bookshops
Date: 22 Jan 1993 04:37:43 GMT
Organization: N.I.C.E.
Reply-To: mike@fionn.lbl.gov (Michael Helm)
NNTP-Posting-Host: 128.3.128.60

C R Pennell writes:
[Responding to Ireland being considered unimportant in understanding
 the modern world]
#>Personally I think this is nonsense,  ....

#>and as Chris Dunlea pointed out,
#>Ireland bulks pretty large in the history of imperialism. It's
         ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
*That* sounds like nonsense to me.

I think that a problem with "appreciating" Irish history is
that there just isn't much to it, there isn't that much there that
makes up what we usually think of as history.  The last time
Ireland was an imperialist power, it was pre-literate.
The history of the island since Norman times is made up of
small bursts of revolutionary activity in the midst of long
periods of sullen pastoral colonialism.  It just doesn't
compare to the history of Bourbon France, for example.
It missed the Reformation.  The Industrial Revolution didn't
quite catch.  Napoleon never invaded. &c.

On the other hand it's more exciting than the history of
Norway.

#>"please please, don't tell us that the greater part of Chinese,
#>Japanese, or Russian history is more  relevant to todays world
                                 ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
#>than anywhere else. It's only recently (in the last 100 years)
#>that these counries have played any role in 'world' affairs...."

#>It was this passage that set me off. It is not true that China
#>or Russia or Japan have only played a role in 'world' affairs in
#>the last hundred years. Unless you define 'world affairs' as

Along with a more appropriate subject title, it mite help if you
2 decided to argue about the same thing.  Just a suggestion.
















Newsgroups: soc.culture.celtic,soc.culture.british
From: dml@philabs.philips.com (Damian M. Lyons)
Subject: Re: This Favorite Lie Again.
Originator: dml@rabbit
Organization: Autonomous Systems, Philips Labs, Briarcliff Manor, NY
Date: Wed, 27 Jan 1993 17:55:11 GMT


In article <1993Jan26.125638.23832@newstand.syr.edu>, crdunlea@rodan.acs.syr.EDU (Christopher R. Dunlea) writes:
|> I cannot really see the point of acting on a "native rights" policy
|> in NI, because this would only further divide Ireland into not only
|> religious and political but now ethnic groups. Why should we erect more
|> further demarcations between "us" and "them"? Has this ever really
|> solved a problem or simply redefined it? I tend to believe the latter.
|>

I raised the issue of native rights to justify treating the Nationalist
and Unionist communities (not their individual citizens) on an equal basis.
Otherwise the Nationlist community is just large enough to be a royal
pain in the ass and just small enough to be democratically invisible.
I'm not introducing any extra ethnic or other groups into the equation; I'm
trying to balance the existing imbalance.


|> 
|> Furthermore, who are the natives and how would you define them? Prove
|> to me that anyone is REALLY Irish Celtic. Apart from those who can 
|> verifyably trace their ancestry to England, can anyone elses'
|> ancestry be proven? The Scots'? The Old English (who are Catholic)? 
|> In your scenario, only the Catholics would be "natives". And so we are
|> back to square one.

No, no, you got the wrong end of the stick. I'm not suggesting Joe O'Smoe
be given special status 'cos he claims he's aboriginal. All the points
you make wrt that scheme I would concur on. I do argue that in 1922
a community of Nationalists were forcibly dragged into a majority 
Unionist state, based mostly on where they happened to live. The resulting
imbalance has generated the unhappy NI we know so well.  I further argue 
that the solution is to re-balance the government of NI by granting
the Nationlist community equal voice in government. This re-balance is
as far as I argue the native rights issue. 

Damian.

-- 
_________________________________________________________________
         Damian M. Lyons | x6444 | dml@philabs.philips.com       
_________________________________________________________________ 
Newsgroups: soc.culture.celtic,soc.culture.british