From: Will Steeves <goid@zooid.guild.org>
Subject: Re: just passing through on way to alt.real-men.grunt.thud ....
X-To: MICHAEL
Organization: The Zoo of Ids
Date: Sun, 3 Jan 1993 20:47:00 GMT

michael@glia.biostr.washington.edu (Michael) writes...
>In <MUFFY.92Dec18125621@remarque.berkeley.edu> muffy@remarque.berkeley.edu (Muf
>y Barkocy) writes:
>>In article <1992Dec18.041148.14307@watson.ibm.com> margoli@watson.ibm.com (Lar
>y Margolis) writes:
>>>In <1992Dec17.211922.15114@titan.tsd.arlut.utexas.edu> conditt@tsd.arlut.utex
>s.edu (Paul Conditt) writes:
>>>>
>>>>Believe it or not, we *all* have the right to choose what happens to our
>>>>bodies.  The thing that we don't seem to be willing to accept is *when*
>>>>that choice occurs.  The choice occurs *before* you have sex, not during
>>>>and certainly not after.

>>>Yup.  And if you chose to not reproduce, by using birth control, then you
>>>*have* made your choice.

>>No, you have not "chosen to not reproduce" when you have sex using birth
>>control.  You have simply chosen to take a "1/5/10/etc percent *chance*
>>of reproducing" (the actual percentage depends on the type of birth
>>control chosen and how well you use it).  If you gamble and lose, then
>>you have to deal with the consequences.

>>>And if the birth control fails, then it's certainly
>>>a responsible decision to stick with your original choice.

>>Exactly.  The choice of "taking a small chance of reproducing."
>>Muffy

>I don't totally agree.  I'll agree that its responsible to make a
>decision that you will stick to being careful to avoid one that you
>can't stick to.  However I also realize that we are human and not
>that perfect.

>A woman may well change her mind about what she wants to do with her
>body AFTER sex.  Especially if conception does occur.  At that point
>if she chooses to have a baby, both parties become responsible for
>it.  If a man doesn't want such responsibility, he shouldn't take part
      ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>in any sex act which could lead to having a baby.
 ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

/* Sarcasm On */

Okay, great.  Let's outlaw abortion and then when women complain about it,
you can say "If a woman doesn't want such responsibilities, she shouldn't
take part in any sex act which could lead to having a baby".

/* Sarcasm Off */

(BTW, anyone who quotes this and attempts to conclude that I am in favour
of outlawing abortion, as I am *NOT*, may kindly refer to the /* Sarcasm
On */, thank you).


Seriously though, Michael, would *you* support the concept of a man deciding
what a *woman* should do with *her* life?  Indeed, you *would* have a
problem allowing a man to control a man to control a woman.  However, you
don't seem to have a problem with allowing women to control men!

In just the same way, I *do not recognise* any woman's 'right' to decide
how I should lead my own life.  (nor *any* man's 'right', either)  Just as
many a woman has declared that she would rather commit suicide than be
forced to bear and support an unwanted child, I would rather throw away my
career and live off welfare than be forced to support a child whom I don't
want!

---
Will Steeves, goid@zooid.guild.org                      "Neil Hull is GOiD"
ZOOiD BBS, Toronto, Ontario - The Zoo Of Ids            "GOiDS Rule"
(416) 322-7876

"Gravity: It's more than just a fragrance.  It's the LAW!"
   - Will Steeves, President, GOiDS "R" We, Inc.

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