HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: bunker@physun.physics.mcmaster.ca (Alex Bunker)
Subject: Re: reagan
Organization: Dept. of Physics & Astronomy, McMaster University
Date: Thu, 20 Aug 1992 17:00:22 GMT

In article <1992Aug20.093858.1@fnalf.fnal.gov> maxwell@fnalf.fnal.gov writes:
>In article <1992Aug18.220719.8243@anomaly.sbs.risc.net>, kd1hz@anomaly.sbs.risc.net (Michael P. Deignan (KD1HZ)) writes:
>> cass8806@elan.glassboro.edu (KYLE CASSIDY) writes:
>> 
>> 
>>>pat buchannan, what a man -- i couldn't have said 
>>>anything any more damming about the republican party than what came out of 
>>>that mans mouth. whose side is he on anyway? i loved the homophobia bit, the 
>>>anti-feminisim bit, the anti black bit.
>> 
>> Hmmm... I guess you were watching a different convention. Why don't you
>> quote the relevent parts of Buchanan's speech which were "homophobic",
>> "anti-feminist", or "anti-black".
>
>I might take you up on that... I haven't had a chance to check on my Comedy
>Central taping-- I don't know how badly Franken stepped on Pig err.. Pat
>Buchannan's speech-- 
>
>But maybe the analysis is simpler: can anyone seriously assert that Bat
>Buchannan's referrences to HOMOsexuals and LESbians (esp. when you fold in the 
>remark about Political Transvestism) was meant in a nurturing, caring 
>inclusive way?  Of course not, don't be absurd. 
>
>The really irritating side to all this is that Buchannan gives good speech. His
>delivery is superb; it's just the content that makes my skin crawl.
>
>Anyway: got it on tape, so there.
>
>regards.max


POST IT!
POST IT!
POST IT!
PPPLLLLLLEEEEAAAASSSSSEEEEEE!!!!!

Alex
(The social-democratic secular humanist)
From: hps@castle.ed.ac.uk (H P Shanahan)
Newsgroups: alt.activism
Subject: Faxing for Somalia -- EC Numbers.
Keywords: Somalia, Famine, EC, Fax
Date: 21 Aug 92 11:41:07 GMT
Distribution: alt
Organization: Edinburgh University

For those of you who are European and feel their FAX (see replies to 
"faxing to Somalia" on alt.actvism if you haven't seen anything about this.)
would be more useful if they contacted the powers that be at Brussels, then
this will be of some use to you.


#######################################################################
Message from Berhard Helander follows :
######################################################################
Dorothy Morse of Peacenet has sent me the following faxnumbers said to
lead to an office for Humanitarian assistance to the third world. The person 
in charge is a Mr Molinier.

        Mr_Molinier@f0093222992876.fax.sunet.se
        Mr_Molinier@f0093222992877.fax.sunet.se

In addition I have these numbers but I have no idea where they lead except 
that they all belong to Directorate 8 that handles development

        Development_Section@f0093222992872.fax.sunet.se
        Development_Section@f0093222992875.fax.sunet.se
	Development_Section@f0093222992875.fax.sunet.se

###########################################################################

If anybody has equivalent numbers for individual European countries,
please post it.


Hugh Shanahan
From: fulton@copper.ucs.indiana.edu (Ben Fulton)
Subject: Re: Age of Consent
Organization: Indiana University
Date: Mon, 17 Aug 1992 21:53:58 GMT

In <l904ahINNjvv@spim.mips.com> mpolen@gelato.mips.com (Michael Polen) writes:

>The following Newsbaum post certainly makes one wonder if he has ever raised
>a child.  No, it says he hasn't.  The good part about Libertarianism is that
>it apparently has figured out how to suspend reality.

I wouldn't go that far.  Libertarianism, with its aim of personal 
responsibility, has a degenerate solution with respect to those who
are incapable of it.  Sort of the place where you divide by zero.
I think they're on target most of the other places.

ben
fulton@copper.ucs.indiana.edu
"Get the hell out of my way!" - John Galt
Newsgroups: alt.activism,alt.desert-storm,talk.politics.misc,soc.culture.latin-america
From: robinc@bnr.ca (Robin Collins)
Subject: Re: Gulf "War"&Chomsky -- final response (part 2)
Organization: Bell-Northern Research Ltd., Ottawa, Canada
Date: Thu, 13 Aug 92 17:32:12 GMT

In article <1992Aug12.104904.6176@iti.org> aws@iti.org (Allen W. Sherzer) writes:
>
>So Harel, what would you have us do about this? What should our
>policy toward Iraq be? Should be end the embargo?
>
>Can't you answer? Don't you have an opinion or do you think you
>don't have a defensable opinion?


Well I have an opinion.
I don't really care what "we" should do (and I assume you mean the US
government here.) I do think the US state department should keep its
hands off of other states and stop intervening in the internal affairs of
other states. But of course, they may not care what I think.

As such, I think we should have an international organization (the UN
should be transformed into it perhaps) that consistently defends the 
principle of sovereignty and applies that principle in all cases. If 
powerful states do not adhere to these principles, they should be ejected
from the UN and a new organization be established that defends these
principles.

We are in a world of big powerful states that do what they want and use
and abuse international organizations by right of their undemocratic
veto and military/economic power.
This means that we have to apply the strength of world opinion against
any breach of international law (Iraq or US). This also means that
no single state or group of states  should be permitted to use the UN
to carry out its own agenda, and the only way to ensure that is to
have a democratic UN -- one state, one vote to start with.  Whether the
American people (for instance) will continue to put up with the crimes of
their government (or military-industrial complex) is something we will have
to wait and watch for. There are no guarantees obviously.

In terms of Iraq today, there are good arguments for maintaining sanctions
on a state that is abusing its minorities (or majority as was the case
in South Africa.) However, there is no good reason to continue sanctions
against Iraq for reasons of its military arsenal, unless sanctions are imposed
on ALL states with nuclear/chemical/biological weapons. 
If Iraq re-invades Kuwait, complete sanctions would likely be enforceable
(they are not complete now because some states rightly or wrongly consider
them unfair punishment against the Iraqi people....this was not the 
feeling when Iraq invaded Kuwait in 1990.)  After a period, if sanctions
are not successful, or if the Iraqi population does not respond to world
opinion and remove its own government and withdraw from invaded territory, then
a UN=based force may be required. Not run by the US or the Security Council,
but by a military council selected by the General Assembly and under the
CONTROL of the GA. The question is whether the US would be willing to 
hand over blue-helmetted forces in that kind of scenario. 
If not, then there is no international law anyway, is there???


Frank
Newsgroups: alt.activism,alt.drugs
From: phz@cadence.com (Pete Zakel)
Subject: Re: GOP Convention, Houston
Organization: Cadence Design Systems
Date: Fri, 14 Aug 1992 23:51:12 GMT

In article <bswfw2.hz6@wang.com> fitz@wang.com (Tom Fitzgerald) writes:
>Son, you're dreaming.  This court is also the one that ruled that evidence
>obtained without a warrant could be admitted if police mistakenly thought
>they didn't need one (Scalia also wrote the opinion on that one); and that
>the police could beat a confession out of a suspect and have it admitted.
>Combined with the affirmation of forfeiture cases, there have been far more
>anti-rights rulings by this court than pro-rights, and there's no reason to
>expect that to change.

Don't forget the ruling that they can search (and have admitted as evidence
any results of the search) a closed container in the locked trunk of a
vehicle because they could impound the vehicle and eventually get a search
warrant so why go to the trouble of doing it by the book?

Some of the rulings from the current Supreme Court are AMAZING in how they
openly disregard clear Constitutional language.  In the case of warrantless
searches, I don't see how the Constitution's language could be any plainer.

Also, the court upheld using evidence from searches with warrants where the
warrant was issued because of fraudulent information (the officer who
requested the warrant admitted to lying to the judge who issued the warrant
in order to get it), because the searching officers *thought* they had a
valid warrant.

The current Supreme Court seems to be in favor of an outright Police State.

Sometimes I find myself wishing a meteorite would strike Washington, D.C.
while the Supremes are in session...

-Pete Zakel
 (phz@cadence.com or ..!uunet!cadence!phz)

    If one person has a dream, it's just a dream...
    If two people have the same dream at the same time, it's reality.

			    - Cyndi Lauper
Newsgroups: alt.activism,talk.politics.guns
From: larryd@milton.u.washington.edu (Larry Desoto)
Subject: Re: UFO "October Surprise" and USA TAKEOVER?!
Organization: University of Washington
Date: Wed, 12 Aug 1992 21:13:28 GMT

Chris.Holt@newcastle.ac.uk (Chris Holt) writes:


>        [sci.skeptic and alt.conspiracy removed from Newsgroups line]

>[Why am I doing this?  I should know better...]

>cescript@mtu.edu (Charles Scripter) writes:

>>Actually, it appears that areas with the most firearms have the
>>lowest crime rates (perhaps because the risk to the peretrator is
>>too great).  Likewise, they appear to be *highest* in regions with
>>the most restrictive gun laws.

>People keep saying this as though it means
>        Restrictive gun laws cause high crime rates.
>A rather more likely situation is
>        High crime rates cause restrictive gun laws;
>in which case the question that has to be answered (and hasn't been)
>is, would the crime rates have been higher or lower without the
>restrictive gun laws?  It probably depends on availability nearby,
>whether you're looking at short term differences vs. long term
>changes in attitudes, and a host of other things that make any
>such study unreliable; but saying that gun laws are useless because
>places that have such laws have a lot of crime is not an argument.

Perhaps you should look up the history and circumstances relating to
New York City's Sullivan law.  You might find it very instructive and
informative.  I will give you a hint; it wasn't to reduce crime and it
wasn't in response to a high crime rate.

--
Larry                                   |   Thunder makes all the noise;
                                        |   lightning gets the job done.
larryd@milton.washington.edu
I have my opinion; the university has its own.
Xref: sparky alt.activism:14992 talk.politics.misc:40339 misc.headlines:5691 sci.econ:6883
Newsgroups: alt.activism,talk.politics.misc,misc.headlines,sci.econ
Subject: Derailing the Reagan Revolution: Part zero: highlights
From: demon@desire.wright.edu (Stupendous Man)
Date: 18 Aug 92 01:37:19 EST
Followup-To: alt.activism,talk.politics.misc,misc.headlines
Organization: Demonic Possesions, Inc.


	In following posts we'll examine the derailing of the Reagan
Revolution.  How George Bush has managed to take the handoff from the Gipper
and fumble the ball on the economic goal line.
	We'll see that while places like Eastern Europe and Mexico use the
Supply Side Bible to bootstrap themselves into prosperity, the US, Japan and
Europe seem content to emulate the failed socialist systems we defeated in the
cold war.

	Successive posts will not appear in sci.econ, as it is mostly
commentary.  This appears there so that interested parties can join the
discussion.

	Highlights:

	Part one: interview with Milton Friedman.  How the west was
lost, so to speak.

	Part two: 2nd half of Friedman interview.  Seven more years?

	Part three: The Mexican Miracle.  Free trade will help all three north
american countries, but Mexico is primed to become the Japan of the Americas.

Brett                                                      
_______________________________________________________________________________
Proconsul Computer Consulting                                        CHA-CHING!
Better, Cheaper, Faster					       (Pick any two :)
Disclaimer:								   NOT!
Xref: sparky alt.activism:14946 alt.individualism:5259 talk.politics.misc:40222
From: mpolen@gelato.mips.com (Michael Polen)
Newsgroups: alt.activism,alt.individualism,talk.politics.misc
Subject: Re: Age of Consent
Date: 17 Aug 92 20:51:29 GMT
Organization: MIPS Computer Systems, Inc.
NNTP-Posting-Host: gelato.mips.com

The following Newsbaum post certainly makes one wonder if he has ever raised
a child.  No, it says he hasn't.  The good part about Libertarianism is that
it apparently has figured out how to suspend reality.

Jack Newsbaum) writes:
|> Fulton) writes:
|> >Jack Newsbaum) writes:
|> >>Children should always  have the right  to establish their maturity by
|> >>assuming administration and  protection of their  own  rights,  ending
|> >>dependency upon their  parents or other guardians and assuming all the
|> >>responsibilities of adulthood.
|> >
|> >Well and good, but what happens when my 8-year old decides I make her
|> >go to bed too early, and decides to "seek other guardians", or move out
|> >on her own?  While the ability of children to make their own decisions is
|> >not directly based on age, it is related, and I don't think the platform
|> >covers well enough the gray area of those who think they are capable of
|> >making their own decisions, but demonstrably are not.
|> >
|> You can always try to persuade her that you are acting in her best
|> interests. If she is unconvinced, and does not come crawling back home,
|> but actually finds new guardians who will make her happier, what's
|> wrong with that?

This makes the assumption that an 8-year old is capable of deciding what
a good guardian is.  All it takes is a piece of candy to steal away a
child for an hour of abuse, a whole box should gain custody.  This is
the most absurd thing I have ever heard in my life.

See it now.  Children moving up and down the neighborhood like hopscotch.
Who gets custody of the clothes? toys? educational materials? the "mommy"
plate made in the first grade?  Of course if you get tired of your child,
you just need to treat him/her badly, and he/she will move on.  If they
stay, you just aren't treating them badly enough.  This will be a new
trend in "family" values.  Even communes are more stable.

On the other hand, we could create a commission to review the request for
guardianship, evaluate the prospective and current parents, and make a
ruling.  I doubt this level of government "interference" would suit
libertarians.
|> 
|> If she actually is capable of establishing her own independence and
|> providing for her own needs, even though she is chronologically only
|> eight, sho would have demonstrated her ability to manage her own
|> affairs, and would be a de facto adult. You would be due congratulations
|> on having raised a precocious child.
|> 
So finding someone who wants to be her guardian is demonstration of her
ability to manage her own affairs?

Please find me anyone that has parented an 8-year old that believes this
drivel.

I try real hard not to insult peoples intelligence, so I'll just assume
you're a young student that has a lot to learn.
Newsgroups: alt.activism
From: starr@genie.slhs.udel.edu (Tim Starr)
Subject: Re: NORML conf in SF, Memorial Day.
Organization: UDel, School of Life & Health Sciences
Date: Mon, 17 Aug 1992 06:21:53 GMT

In article <1992Aug16.211539.1@fnalb.fnal.gov> maxwell@fnalb.fnal.gov writes:
}The 22nd annual NORML conference is coming up...
}
}Seems like there ought to be an @ party...esp. given the high concentration of 
}net.people in the area. 

I'll probably be there.


Tim Starr - Renaissance Now! - Think Universally, Act Selfishly

"True greatness consists in the use of a powerful understanding to enlighten
oneself and others." - Voltaire
Xref: sparky alt.activism:14866 talk.politics.misc:39915
Newsgroups: alt.activism,talk.politics.misc
Subject: Re: Never again. How soon we forget.
From: kmcvay@oneb.almanac.bc.ca (Ken Mcvay)
Date: Sat, 15 Aug 92 18:21:34 GMT
Organization: The Old Frog's Almanac, Vancouver Island, CANADA

In article <Bt1ArI.1IC@news.cso.uiuc.edu> bfrg9732@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (Brian F. Redman) writes:

>I am a bit puzzled as to your claim that you are an ex-Marine and your
>later statement that "I don't get my news from Yankee TV." Could you
>please clarify this?

Certainly. I live in Canada, which gives me the choice of watching Yank tv
or Canadian tv.

I left the United States in 1967, and acquired Canadian citizenship five
years later. I left the Corps in about '63, if memory serves correctly.

My son managed to enlist in the Corps simply by pointing out that he was an
American citizen. He was the family's third Marine, which didn't matter to
anyone but him.

Yes, Brian, there is life North of the border.
-- 
"THIRTEEN TRANSPORTS, comprising 13,000 Jews, were sent from Theresienstadt
to ghettos of the Lublin  district between  March 12 and June 13, 1942.  At
least  6,000 of  these Jews  were  murdered in  Sobibor and  about 7,000 in
Belzec." (Testimony of Yehuda Lerner)
From: atfurman@cup.portal.com (A T Furman)
Newsgroups: alt.activism
Subject: Re: ELECTIONS 92: N.A.P./Fulani: A "Deceptive Cult"
Date: Fri, 14 Aug 92 00:40:16 PDT
Organization: The Portal System (TM)

> [lengthy gripe about Lenora Fulani and the NAP]

Our intrepid correspondent left out the punch line.

FULANI HAS RECEIVED $1,455,051 IN MATCHING FUNDS JUST THIS YEAR ALONE.

This is the reductio ad absurdum of tax-funded politics.  If the
current crop of "progressives" had gotten their way in Germany in
the 1920's, the German Jews would have been paying taxes to cover
Hitler's campaign expenses (he ran for President of Germany in March
of 1922 and got 11 million votes).  George Bush, who may not be as 
flaky as Fulani but has inflicted enormous damage on Americans'
liberties (while Fulani has only been talking about it), is getting
an even bigger chunk of the loot.


    Alan T. Furman         | VOTE LIBERTARIAN!!  Marrou/Lord in 92!!
---------------------------+----------------------------------------
  atfurman@cup.portal.sig  |   (800)682-1776 for more information
Xref: sparky alt.activism:15025 talk.politics.misc:40435 soc.culture.latin-america:3124
From: cescript@mtu.edu (Charles Scripter)
Subject: Re: UFO "October Surprise" and USA TAKEOVER?!
Organization: Michigan Technological University
Date: Fri, 14 Aug 1992 22:19:11 GMT

In article <BsI8Iz.3LL@newcastle.ac.uk>, Chris.Holt@newcastle.ac.uk
(Chris Holt) writes:

> cescript@mtu.edu (Charles Scripter) writes:
> 
> >Actually, it appears that areas with the most firearms have the
> >lowest crime rates (perhaps because the risk to the peretrator is
> >too great).  Likewise, they appear to be *highest* in regions with
> >the most restrictive gun laws.
> 
> People keep saying this as though it means
>         Restrictive gun laws cause high crime rates.

Not necessarily.  I merely made an observation.  Please don't
put words in my mouth.

> A rather more likely situation is
>         High crime rates cause restrictive gun laws;

I think the cause is high population densities lead to high
crime rates and areas with lower densities, have lower rates.
One could think of it as a probability of interaction with another.
There are also cultural differences.  There really is a difference
between people in cities, and the country.

> in which case the question that has to be answered (and hasn't been)
> is, would the crime rates have been higher or lower without the
> restrictive gun laws?

Perhaps...  However, it seems apparent that the gun laws in restrictive
areas are ineffective at reducing or eliminating crime.  If something
doesn't work, do you expect more of the same to work better?

> It probably depends on availability nearby,

It probably depends on whether the local citizens treat each
other with respect, or not.

> whether you're looking at short term differences vs. long term
> changes in attitudes, and a host of other things that make any
> such study unreliable; but saying that gun laws are useless because
> places that have such laws have a lot of crime is not an argument.

But stating that these gun laws are ineffective is relevent.  You
mention a change in attitudes, I agree.  You will continue to have
crime problems as long as you direct your energies at the wrong source.

-- 
Charles Scripter   *   cescript@phy.mtu.edu
Dept of Physics, Michigan Technological University, Houghton, MI 49931
-------------------------------------------------------------------
With your one remaining eye, please do NOT look back into the laser
From: davepat@flash.ATC.Olivetti.Com (Dave Patterson)
Newsgroups: alt.activism
Subject: Recall CA Gov. Pete Wilson!
Date: 21 Aug 92 21:22:44 GMT

Hi all!

I am so angry with the budget situation here in California, that I feel 
drastic measures must be taken.  A friend of mine and I are currently
starting a Recall measure to oust Gov. Pete Wilson out of office.

We feel that his lack of leadership, his consistent arrogance with the
electorate and the legislature, his imperilment of the California 
educational system, his imperilment of the California health system,
and the simple fact that he is not capable of efficiently leading this 
state by not passing a budget (in 52 days), is in our opinion, reckless 
and unwarranted.

His consistent failures with the Legislature, (yes, including Republicans
within), and his policy of blaming the Democrats, as well as the previously
mentioned issues shows an extreme lack of leadership, professionalism, and 
maturity.

Since we have never undertaken such a task, our question is:  Are there
any good methods, books, advice from netters, on how to organize a large
"grass roots" movement to get this going?

We understand the procedures of creating, and are able to generate the 
preliminary Recall documents, but are unsure as to the "Large Amount of
Public Support/Volunteer Work" end, with respect to how to organize this.

We would appreciate your help in giving us pointers on how to go about
achieving our goal of removing Gov. Wilson from office, and electing
a real leader.

Thank you.

I would also mention here, that the company I work for, Olivetti, has
ABSOLUTELY NOTHING TO DO WITH THIS AT ALL.  I DO NOT SPEAK FOR THEM IN
THIS MATTER.

-Dave Patterson

= #include <disclaimer.h> ===============================================
|                                                                       |
| Recall Gov. Pete Wilson !     - Californians for a Better California  |
|                                                                       |
================ {ucbvax, etc.}!hplabs!flash!davepat ====================
From: christic@IGC.ORG (Andy Lang)
Newsgroups: alt.activism
Subject: CLINTON NEWSGROUP
Date: 17 Aug 92 03:57:01 GMT

[Via misc.activism.progressive from PeaceNet's elections.usa]
 - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
Topic 220       Clinton Campaign Online 
christic        elections.usa    6:16 am  Aug 16, 1992 
  - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

At the risk of repeating something readers of this conference 
already know:  The Clinton campaign uses the <alt.politics.clinton> 
newsgroup on Usenet (also available as an ordinary conference here 
on PeaceNet) to post major addresses and statements by the  
candidate.  The conference is also used for a spirited discussion 
about the presidential campaign.   

There is also an <alt.politics.bush> newsgroup, but not (as far as 
I can see) used by the Bush/Quayle campaign.  Too bad: I would have 
liked to have seen Mary Matalin's panicky press release on 
"sniveling hypocritical Democrats." 

Of course, I am not expressing a preference for any candidate (at 
least not until I get my own private account). 

Andy Lang 
Xref: sparky alt.activism:15072 talk.politics.misc:40570 misc.headlines:5732