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Date:         Thu, 5 Nov 1992 10:15:00 EST
From:         Elise <EZAPPAS@DREW.BITNET>
Subject:      Re: Heroines who die

                                        Date:     05-Nov-1992 10:11am EST
                                        From:     Zappas, Elise
                                                  EZAPPAS
                                        Dept:     LIB
                                        Tel No:   (201)-408-3667

TO:  Remote INTERNET Address              ( _IN%LITERARY@UCF1VM.BITNET )


Subject: Re: Heroines who die

For the ultimate tragic death of a heroine, read Samuel Richardson's
18th century masterpiece, Clarissa.  If at all possible, see the
Masterpiece Theatre production.  It was the most devastating statement on
the issue of women's autonomy I  have ever experienced.

Elise T. Zappas
EZAPPAS@DREW.DREW.EDU
EZAPPAS@DREW.BITNET
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Date:         Sat, 7 Nov 1992 14:40:58 -0600
From:         "VALENTINE M. SMITH" <CDELL@UMKCVAX1.BITNET>
Subject:      "defacement" by an author ...
Comments: To: literary@ucf1vm.bitnet

Date: 04 Nov 1992 07:13:54 +0000
From: Jeremy Hawthorn <Jeremy.Hawthorn@AVH.UNIT.NO>

(all prior, and quite informative, paragraphs deleted)

>Question: why do some people like to have their books defaced by
>having the author write in them? It's an odd sort of fetishism.

I believe, in my case, that there are two reasons for acquiring
author autographs, etc. in a book. One is to connect you further to
that writer, by a rememberance device, to your specific interaction
with the author. The second is to increase the value of the book, to
put it bluntly. A rough rule of thumb I've heard among serious
bibliophiles is a 10% increase in value if the autograph you have is
from a living person, and another 10% adds on upon the death of this
soul. That sounds cold-blooded, but it is a fact of some reality in
the book collecting world.

But, I like the first reason best. I will give you a small case
example. I met Tom Disch, the SF writer and columnist for "Nation,"
at a SF convention here in KC in the mid-Eighties. Disch was
particularly funny, and I had a couple of good conversations with
him. So, whenever I see those autographs made out to me specifically,
I recall that wonderful weekend! Most of my autographs are like that,
though I DO have an autographed Asimov, an Ellison, and a signed copy
of Emma Goldman's _Living My Life wherein I did not meet the authors.
Most of the almost 1000 autographed books I have, I've met the
writer, somewhere. VMS
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Date:         Wed, 11 Nov 1992 23:40:23 EST
From:         "BARBARA QAISSAUNEE, WILLIAM C. JASON LIBRARY,
              DELAWARE STATE COLLEGE, DOVER,
              DELAWARE" <qaissaunee@SHRSYS.HSLC.ORG>
Subject:      Virginia Woolf's To the Lighthouse
Comments: To: LITERARY@ucf1vm.bitnet

I am interested in criticism, interpretations (personal, sources, citations,
etc.) of Woolf's To the Lighthouse.
Barbara F. Qaissaunee]
Barbara F. Qaissaunee
Delaware State College
Dover, Delaware
qaissaunee@shrsys.hslc.org
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Posted-Date: Sun, 8 Nov 92 17:12:09 EST
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Date:         Sun, 8 Nov 1992 17:12:09 EST
From:         "(MM)" <mbm@PACSCL.UARC.UPENN.EDU>
Subject:      heroines
Comments: To: literary@ucf1vm.cc.ucf.edu

Thank-you sbf2v for the clarification; I should have worded my message
more carefully. Still, an important priestess having that name indicates
that in the history of the use of this sound, anyway, there is some precedent
for "hero" to cover both sexes.

In any case, Hero or no, I still don't see the problem with "hero."

Michael :McColl
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Date:         Wed, 4 Nov 1992 12:19:32 -0800
From:         djl@MAILHOST.PP.PDX.EDU
Subject:      Re: The Sensual Book
Comments: To: LITERARY@ucf1vm.cc.ucf.edu

Deming et al:

I first got into Mylar covers in high school, when I asked my local public
library about them.  They agreed to order a set for me the next time they
dealt with their supplier.  Eventually, I began ordering them on my own.
I like them because they protect the pretty, multicolored dust cover from
tearing and stains, and make all the books on my shelf very shiny and pretty.

I have a catalog from the supplier at home.  The name escapes me.  A package
of 100 Mylar covers for your standard size clothbound books runs around
$11 or $15, something like that.  Then I occasionally get a package of large
size covers, for more coffee-table type books, in a set of 25;  I can't
remember the price.  If you want more information, I can fetch it from
home.

David J. Loftus
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Date:         Fri, 6 Nov 1992 05:52:01 +1100
From:         Richard Scott <logan@YOYO.CC.MONASH.EDU.AU>
Subject:      Re: HEROINES
Comments: To: "Discussions about Literature" <LITERARY@ucf1vm.cc.ucf.edu>

> I'M interested in texts of any genre in which the heroine dies.  If you could
 se
>    nd me titles, I'd really appreciate it.  I've been reading novels with
> death as topoi, and I'd like to persue this topic further.  BTW, these can
> be from any time period.  Thanks in advance.  Linda Karch.

Ummm, Romeo and Juliet, or is that too obvious?   I will try and think of
some others....


Richard
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.literary
Date:         Mon, 9 Nov 1992 14:50:32 EST
From:         Graham Wolff Christian <GRAHAM@HARVARDA.BITNET>
Subject:      Re: hypertext

What little we can glean of the history of technologies in this century suggest
s that e-text is unlikely to *replace* print. Radio, despite many gloomy fore-
casts at the time, did not replace live entertainment or books;cinema did not
replace radio, theater, or books;television did not replace cinema, radio,
theater, or books, and so on. What seems likeliest of all is that e-text and
hypertext will co-exist with all its predecessors.
When I reason in this way, some friends say, "But what about 8-track tapes?
Remember those? And CD's?" But you all remember that cassette tapes did all
that 8-tracks did--just as well and more reliably. Much the same could be ar-
gued in the case of CDs, though I think the truth is that most music buyers
would happily have bought cassettes, LPs, *and* CDs (see above). It was the
recording industry that sped the obsolescence of LPs, not because it was a
technology that had failed, but because CDs were such a near match for LPs--
and promised to be so much more profitable. Don't throw your books away yet...
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Date:         Mon, 9 Nov 1992 11:46:00 PST
From:         naomi seeger <ECZ5SEE@UCLAMVS.BITNET>
Subject: Re: hypertext

> What do you all think? Wouldn't it be good to electronically make all
> the marks and references round the text? Like beeing able to
> "connect" all the different uses of a single metaphor within a a
> text? -Perhaps best of all, beeing able to make "topical indexes" of
> some sort?
>
>
> -Jesper Juul
>  University of Aarhus
>  Denmark

  i would *love* to have my favorite books on hypertext - especially those
i and a circle of friends are eternally rereading and analyzing to death.
i now have my mark-up copy - the one where i can underline, comment on,
mark for cross references, etc. - and my archival copy.  there have been
so many times i have almost wept for not having these books with hypertext.
i'll see a phrase, want to underline and annotate, and there is simply not
enough room on the page.  i'll go to a notebook, but i won't be able to find
the earlier entry i wanted to link it with.  when i have a point i want to
make, i cannot gather the quotes and notes and down/upload them for emailing.
we do most of our discussion on email, and i do not have the time to transcribe
all the passeges i would want to quote.

  for pure enjoyment, give me the paper copy any day.  for extended exegesis -
give me hypertext.

naomi seeger
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Date:         Thu, 5 Nov 1992 10:15:48 CST
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From:         MW <GS0383@SPRINGB.BITNET>
Subject:      "An Honest Thief"

Has anybody every read "An Honest Thief" by Dosteovsky? I just discovered
thisstory in one of my books last night and I really loved it. I had never
even heard of it before. The sadness and even a little of the comedy involved
in trying to live with an alcoholic, the inspiration to serve as a sort of
parent figure to the troubled soul, the anger and the frustration, all of this
was conveyed so well it makes me wonder if Dosteovsky ever had this experience
in real life.

Also, has anybody on this list read _Catcher in the Rye_? Someone mentioned it
the other day, I think. I just finished this book--I don't know why I never
read it before. I thought it was interesting and fast-moving, but the
language, which was meant to echo the thoughts of an adolescent boy, I assume,
was rather irritating to me. I also am kind of unclear on the ending of the
story. I liked the very last paragraph where the narrator makes an observation
about how when you describe people from your past in writing, you start to
miss even the ones you didn't like.

Melanie
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Date:         Sat, 7 Nov 1992 01:26:15 -0500
From:         S1MBM@ISUVAX.BITNET
Subject:      Re: HEROINES

The incomparable Lily Bart in *The House of Mirth*; read it right away if
you have not.  The heroine of Chopin's *The Awakening*.

By the way, can't we just ditch the word "heroine."  We could substitute
"heroperson" . . . Seriously, I suppose it could be argued that to use "hero"
for both sexes privileges the male-associated term, but settling on one term
would at least rid us of an obnoxious distinction, and I've always *hated*
the way the word "heroine" *sounds*.

m mcdonald
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Date:         Thu, 5 Nov 1992 07:38:47 -0800
From:         djl@MAILHOST.PP.PDX.EDU
Subject: Re: Re[2]: The Sensual Book
Comments: To: LITERARY@ucf1vm.cc.ucf.edu, livewell@siam.org

Right.  I'll try to remember to fetch it for tomorrow.

DavID L.
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Date:         Mon, 9 Nov 1992 12:19:00 EST
From:         jacqueline van willigen <JVANW01@UKCC.UKY.EDU>
Subject:      Re: RE:HEROINES

A totally irrelevant aside, but I always felt Dicken's line to begin David Copp
erfield could also be a line from my life.  Remember--Whether I shall turn out
to be the hero of my own life, or whther that station will be held by anybody e
lse, these pages (days) must show.
From: ocoreng@FAC.ANU.EDU.AU ((Robert F. O'Connor))
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.literary
Subject: Re: Heroines who die
Date: 6 Nov 92 17:15:38 GMT
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Comments: To: LITERARY@ucf1vm.cc.ucf.edu

A lot of Shakespeare falls into this category, though perhaps since the issere
 has been a tad overworked you might like a look at some of the other plays
- Ford's "'Tis Pity She's A Whore" springs to mind.  You could go further back
 tto Henryson's "Testament of Cresseid" if you're feeling particularly
 masochistic!
ROC
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Date:         Thu, 5 Nov 1992 09:01:20 -0800
From:         djl@MAILHOST.PP.PDX.EDU
Subject:      Quote of the Day
Comments: To: WRITERS@NDSUVM1.BITNET

There is no such thing as a true idea or a false idea.  At first you adopt
things quickly and enthusiastically;  then you reflect, then you doubt, and
that's that.  -- Gustave Flaubert, "Intimate Journals," 1841
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Date:         Wed, 4 Nov 1992 13:18:59 EST
From:         "(Paul G. Beidler)" <pgb3@LEHIGH.EDU>
Subject:      skyn of houndfyssh
Comments: To: "Discussions about Literature" <LITERARY@ucf1vm.cc.ucf.edu>

>Paul, How do you figure that David was comparing books with women? It's true
>there are different ways of treating women, but what has that to do with the
>way a person feels about books? Melanie
>

The sensuality of his bibliofettishism reminds me of the way we often make
women into saints, thus isolating and oppressing them with our reverence.
Look at the marriage of Januarie and May in Chaucer's "Merchant's Tale":

           The bryde was broght abedde as stille as stoon;
           And whan the bed was with the preest yblessed,
           Out of the chambre hath every wight hym dressed,
           And Januarie hath faste in armes take
           His fresshe May, his paradys, his make.
           He lulleth hire; he kisseth hire ful ofte;
           With thikke brustles of his berd ubsoft,
           Lyk to the skyn of houndfyssh, sharp as brere-- . . .
                    (1818-25)

What do I mean by this?  Only that to pretend that there is any virtue in
trying to enjoy something without possessing it and mutilating it, as Januarie
does by having the priest bless his nuptual bed, seems empty and false at
best--with regards to books or women or anything else.

                                            Paul
From: SPAM@TAMVM1.BITNET (steve)
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.literary
Subject: Re: Meals in Literature
Date: 12 Nov 92 14:40:29 GMT
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RE: Food Movie

That was BABETTE'S FEAST [sp?]
From: ocoreng@FAC.ANU.EDU.AU ((Robert F. O'Connor))
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.literary
Subject: Re: Marginalia
Date: 6 Nov 92 17:13:00 GMT
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Comments: To: LITERARY@ucf1vm.cc.ucf.edu

Steve - that I didn't know.  I've always been interested in the Moslems in Spain
and the aftermath of the Crusades - very strange culture!
ROC
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Date:         Tue, 10 Nov 1992 10:16:41 MST
From:         std_clearwat@HG.ULETH.CA
Subject:      Italo Calvino
Comments: To: literary@ucf1vm.bitnet

I have just finished two books by Calvino that have given me mixed feelings
about the author.  The first was _Invisible Cities_ and the second _The Castle
of Crossed Destinies_.  While I was overwelmed by _Cities_ I could not get into
_The Castle..._ no matter what I tried.  I have been thinking about both of
these books alot over the last week (I even started to re-read some of the
stories in _Castle_ with a Tarot deck [the Marseilles deck] to construct the
stories visually in fromt of me).  I was wondering about the thoughts of others
who have read Calvino.

I was also looking for any criticism written on the work of Calvino.  I am
aware that Baudrillard wrote two pieces on two of Calvino's early work and have
seen the short bit in Rushdie's _Imaginary Homelands_.

David..
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Date:         Thu, 5 Nov 1992 15:26:15 EST
From:         "(Robert F. O'Connor)" <ocoreng@FAC.ANU.EDU.AU>
Subject: Re: thousands upon thousands
Comments: To: LITERARY@ucf1vm.cc.ucf.edu

I believe james Blish had something on the order of 30.000 - but he was an
insomniac!
ROC
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Date:         Mon, 9 Nov 1992 08:52:41 EST
Comments:     <Parser> W: TO field duplicated. Last occurence was retained.
From:         "(Pauline Hodges --D65 x2701--)" <PRH65@CAS.BITNET>
Subject:      Re(2): HEROINES
Comments: To: S1MBM@isuvax.bitnet

m mcdonald says:


By the way, can't we just ditch the word "heroine."  We could substitute
"heroperson" . . .


I say:

If you're going to get picky about language being male/female nonspecific, do it
all the way.  Why substitute "person" for "man"?  There's a male in "person,"
isn't there?  If you object to "hero"/"heroine" go with herofolk, or something
truely lacking the taint of that non-politically-correct distinction.


And on the topic, m mcdonald, before you hate the word "heroine" for the rest of
your life, consider this (from the Nevade Morning Transcript, 2/15/1861):

"Heroine" is perhaps as peculiar a word as any in our language; the two first
letters of it are a male, the three first a female, the four first a brave man,
and the whole word a brave woman.

Non-politically-correct, and proud of it--

P. Hodges
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Date:         Wed, 11 Nov 1992 14:28:17 -0800
From:         djl@MAILHOST.PP.PDX.EDU
Subject:      Quote of the Day
Comments: To: WRITERS@NDSUVM1.BITNET

He always ate his meals alone reading out of a book in front of him.  His
library was small but well chosen.  He loved books;  books are cold but sure
friends.                     -- Victor Hugo, "Les Miserables"
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Date:         Thu, 5 Nov 1992 15:20:04 EST
From:         "(Robert F. O'Connor)" <ocoreng@FAC.ANU.EDU.AU>
Subject:      Re: Bleak House
Comments: To: LITERARY@ucf1vm.cc.ucf.edu

Weeelll - the tutor involved had Pynchon right in there as a starter - the one
book he was adamant would never be on the course was 'The Name of the Rose"
as it was being flogged to death by University courses anyway.  He wanted USA,
'Clarissa', etc - I can't recall exactly.  For myself, I would throw in
'Ulysses' to start the course - just to see who stayed the distance!
ROC
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Date:         Thu, 5 Nov 1992 09:16:56 EST
From:         Ken Koester <MAINT2@ERS.BITNET>
Subject: Re: long books
              3 Nov 1992 19:07:46 EST from <hfleming@SAS.UPENN.E DU>

On Tue, 3 Nov 1992 19:07:46 EST Heather Fleming said:
>
>The medievals certainly didn't seem to share our reverence for books.  One
>of my professors discovered parts of an unknown edition of the Song of the
>Nibelungs used as reinforcement in the binding of a manuscript he was
>working on.  He likes to tell this story to remind us just how valuable
>and precious materials were in those days.  Only the best of the best was
>kept -- everything else was recycled (or burned!!! which I guess
>contradicts the hypothesis that materials were precious, but perhaps they
>lost their value when "defiled" by certain texts.)
>
More likely the material simply wore out & would not accept any more scrapings.
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Date:         Wed, 4 Nov 1992 13:01:57 -0600
From:         "VALENTINE M. SMITH" <CDELL@UMKCVAX1.BITNET>
Subject:      Re: Number of books owned

I have about 21,500 books - 4500 in SF/fantasy, 500 photography books, 3500
detective/thrillers, 1000 reference, 2000 non-fiction, 500 on Russian and
Soviet affairs, 3000 "current" fiction (this century), 500 "classics," 500
books of poetry, 500 plays, 500 books on literature, 500 art books, 3000 on
a variety of subjects, and 1000 "valuable" and/or autographed books, both
fiction and non-fiction. I find autographed books are more valuable than not.
My latest was David McCulloch's _Truman, which I got autographed on a cold
wet rainy day here 44 years and a day after Truman was elected President. VMS
From: GRAHAM@HARVARDA.BITNET (Graham Wolff Christian)
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.literary
Subject: Re: Meals in Literature
Date: 12 Nov 92 17:34:59 GMT
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The title you're searching for is *Babette's Feast*, a near-miss adaptation of
a story by Isak Dinesen.
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Date:         Thu, 5 Nov 1992 15:14:00 EST
From:         "(Robert F. O'Connor)" <ocoreng@FAC.ANU.EDU.AU>
Subject: Re: Re[2]: taking notes
Comments: To: LITERARY@ucf1vm.cc.ucf.edu

Dave, I'm not sure if your message was to me, but I have some info anyway -
tho' if you're way over in the US it's not much good!  I have about 700 books at
 the moment.  I actually had to sell some when I moved from Perth to Canberra,
something which was necessary, but I didn't enjoy doing it.  About 400 of these
 are directly related to Literature in general (including texts), particularly
Elizabethan drama.  I confess a great proportion of the rest are SF.
As to where they come from - back in Perth there is a _very_ good chain of
second-hand bookstores which I ransacked regularly.  There aren't so many here
in Canberra but I needed to slow down anyway!  Someone brought up '84 Charing
Cross Road' the other day.  I have only seen the movie, but I can agree with the
 sentiments expressed about pre-loved books - tho' there is nothing that frust-
rates me more than to see a book I have loved turn up in a 2h store.  I always
wonder why the previous owner didn't like it!
ROC
From: ocoreng@FAC.ANU.EDU.AU ((Robert F. O'Connor))
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.literary
Subject: Re: Derrida
Date: 6 Nov 92 17:28:32 GMT
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There's been a lot said about Derrida either way - especially over the Honourary
Doctorate he received earlier this year.  I confess I too expected to loathe his
stuff, but when I read it I not only found it very difficult, but enormously
stimulating - it FORCES you to think. A Good Thing.  As for its usefulness, I
 find that his ideas on deconstruction and the nature of the texts to be useful
metaphors, rather than the absolute basis of any analysis.
ROC
From: sbf2v@UVA.PCMAIL.VIRGINIA.EDU
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.literary
Subject: Re: heroines
Date: 8 Nov 92 20:22:29 GMT
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Comments: To: "Discussions about Literature" <LITERARY@ucf1vm.cc.ucf.edu>

Please note: a priestess of Aphrodite at Sestos is not a
definition of hero. Rather, Hero was the personal name of one
priestess, as in "Hero and Leander."
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Date:         Fri, 13 Nov 1992 00:16:29 EST
From:         "(Robert F. O'Connor)" <ocoreng@FAC.ANU.EDU.AU>
Subject: Re: Nerd and Jerk
Comments: To: LITERARY@ucf1vm.cc.ucf.edu

How about 'Noriega'?
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