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Approved-By:  Bill McGarry <wtm@SHELDEV.SHEL.ISC-BR.COM>
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.l-hcap
Date:         Fri, 24 Jul 1992 16:30:59 EDT
Reply-To:     Bill McGarry <wtm@sheldev.shel.isc-br.com>
From:         Bill McGarry <wtm@sheldev.shel.isc-br.com>
Subject:      Handicap Digest # 2825
X-To:         LHCAP <l-hcap@VM1.NODAK.EDU>

                             THE HANDICAP DIGEST

                                 Issue # 2825

                            Friday, July 24, 1992

Today's Topics:


                                ******

                           Blink Talk Digest # 662

                          Re: nfb bbs censorship??
                            Re: b n s and grade 2
                              Re: Acb/nfb Feud
                               Re: Nls And nfb
                          Help with artic 3.04 on s
                          Braille n speak complaint
                          using readcom with speech
                                VIBUG meeting
                          Re: Windows access maybe
                           Re: dogs and landlords
                                 Nls and nfb
                            Braille And Spelling


                                ******


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------



Subject: Re: nfb bbs censorship??
From: William.Wilson@p0.f89.n129.z1.fidonet.org (William Wilson)
Organization: FidoNet node 1:129/89.0 - BlinkLink, Pittsburgh PA


[This is from the Blink Talk Conference]

 MF> Nothing.  If you want a clearly free-wheeling echo, you are
 MF> correct in just watching the fur fly.  On the other hand, it
 MF> might be in order to say something like "Stick to issues, not
 MF> personalities".  But, as David Andrews is the SysOp of NFBNET,
 MF> so you're the head honcho of this echo and, within FidoNet
 MF> rules, can conduct it as you deem proper.

Mike,
    I know you probably didn't read the last message I left in this
thread yet, but here...

OK EVERYBODY, STICK TO ISSUES, NOT PERSONALITIES!

What you, and I think perhaps many people are assuming, is that David
Andrews, I, or any FidoNet style echo moderator for that matter, has a
lot of control over the content of this shared message base!  Oh, if
only this were the case!
     Mike, what little control of censurship a moderator does have over
the content of an echo decreases proportionally as the echo spreads to
more boards and more users, and if you only knew how difficult, if not
impossible it is to remove even a single message, let alone a particular
user, you'd understand why I find the existance of an NFB alternative to
BlinkTalk such a howl!  They want it to get out to as many people as
possible, its stated purpose the same as this echo, the sole
distinguishing characteristic being it is NFB sanctioned, but that NFB
sanctioning just ain't worth a plug nickel once the echo truly gets out
there, cause just due to the nature of this beast, THIS IS AN OPEN
FORUM!  Yes, BlinkTalk is pretty free form, just as I like it, but that
has so little to do with who the moderator is, and is almost totally due to
the size of the echo and its availability to anybody who wants it!

     Oh Mike, if only I could utter those above words a few times and
indeed the participants would stick to issues and stay away from
personalities, wouldn't life be grand?

(Naw, I don't think I'd want the power even if I could have it!)
                                        Willie

... BlinkTalk - the Electronic Voice of the Blind!

--
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Internet: William.Wilson@p0.f89.n129.z1.fidonet.org




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Subject: Re: b n s and grade 2
From: Tandy.Way@f6.n377.z1.fidonet.org (Tandy Way)
Organization: FidoNet node 1:377/6 - T.A.B.B., Tampa Fl


[This is from the Blink Talk Conference]

TC>"Hi, Tandy.
TC>The t chord is the transmit command, and the b chord turns the
TC>translator off. I think the misunderstanding occurred because
TC>people thought you wanted to know whether an Ascii document
TC>could be translated in to Grade Two braille by loading it in to the Bns.
TC>Hope this clears it up, and good luck with your 640.

actually tim you are correct it was a two part question but at the
time I did not realize that. now I understand that ascii documents
not created on the b n s will not directly translate without the
aid of a pc and a translate but files directly created on the b ns
will output to grade 2. I have not had much time to play with mine
yet probably won't before I go on my extended vacation in august
but will see. tandy

===
 * EZ 1.35 #661 * iT IS A FAIR COP BUT SOCIETY IS TO BLAME.

--
Uucp: ..!uunet!bunker!hcap!hnews!377!6!Tandy.Way
Internet: Tandy.Way@f6.n377.z1.fidonet.org




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Subject: Re: Acb/nfb Feud
From: Bill.Burgess@f401.n229.z1.fidonet.org (Bill Burgess)
Organization: FidoNet node 1:229/401 - The Connection HST!, Oshawa ON


[This is from the Blink Talk Conference]

Yes, I have read so many posts from those who have had first hand
experience with the NFB, yourself included, and am sure that most of it
is indeed factual.  There is no way that I would go to needless expense
to directly investigate the NFB, since I am neither blind or an
American.  It would serve no worthwhile purpose and would waste at least
five hundred dollars which could be better utilized elsewhere.  My
purpose in joining GDUI was for guide dog information abroad, and was at
the recommendation of another Canadian guide dog user, who is also the
president of the British Columbia Washington Guide Dog Users in
Vancouver B.C..  There are many NFB'ers on this echo who have reported
many things about their organization, but none mentions a guide dog
users section that provides all which one can find in GDUI.  In fact,
little is ever said about it.   And for those who wonder about it, I
have belonged to many organizations and served on many executives but
none with the Jernigan dictatorship.  And I also have been a Shriner for
21 years, and as most know we hold an annual Imperial Convention,
usually in the U.S. which is massive, yet I have never travelled south
of the border or out of Ontario to attend any, though they are a lot of
fun.  Same goes for the professional photographers conventions.  So I am
not discriminating between any groups.  Now if NFB came to say Buffalo
or Rochester, it might attract the curiosity of those above the border.
Thanks for your input.  TTYL
Bill

 * SLMR 2.1a * Hello, I am part number ################

--
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Internet: Bill.Burgess@f401.n229.z1.fidonet.org




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Subject: Re: Nls And nfb
From: Carol.Ashland@f56.n105.z1.fidonet.org (Carol Ashland)
Organization: FidoNet node 1:105/56 - The Overworked Drag, Portland OR


[This is from the Blink Talk Conference]

In a message to Mike Freeman <07-14-92 14:46> Bill Koppelmann wrote:

BK>  recall sometime in the 80's I believe it was that the nfb was making
BK>  a
BK>  big to do about having a group of people who would help nls decide on
BK>  the kinds of books they should braille.  Somehow I've not heard about
BK>  that in the longest time.  Would you care to speak to that issue, and

I read in a Braille Book Review that that group is seeking input from
readers.  The Braille Book Review gave the names and addresses of all the
people on that committee.  As far as I am concerned, they do a terrible job.
 Mostly just junk that they braille and record.  I often envy people on the
BBSes who talk about reading this or that book, and I just do not have
access to them.  I wish it was really practical to read a book on the
Arkenstone, but it doesn't seem so to me.  What do some of you Arkenstone
users think?  That's the only advantage of the Kurzweil scanner:  their
book-edge scanner.

Carol

--
Uucp: ..!uunet!bunker!hcap!hnews!105!56!Carol.Ashland
Internet: Carol.Ashland@f56.n105.z1.fidonet.org




------



Subject: Help with artic 3.04 on s
From: John.Ogilvie@f24.n3602.z1.fidonet.org (John Ogilvie)
Organization: FidoNet node 1:3602/24 - ADAnet One (tm) Net, Pinson AL


[This is from the Blink Talk Conference]

DA>I have installed Artic Business Vision 3.03 and 3.04 on several IBM
DA>PCs and PC Clones over the past year.  On six of the PC Clones I
DA>have experienced a problem with  cursor lock-up when using the
DA>inverted T cursor pad in WordPerfect.

     Do you know about the /M1 switch which is in the BV.BAT file that
     comes with the system.  This can cause trouble on some systems,
     especially when using memory management.

     What you should try is changing  the line in the BV.BAT file

     \ARTIC\VISION\BVISION /M1 to:
     \ARTIC\VISION\BVISION /M3

     Also re-create from scratch any configurations that were saved under
     the /M1 switch.  In other words, if you use the old configs even
     after making the change, you will still have problems.

Internet: john.ogilvie%canrem.com@lsuc.on.ca
Com:      canrem!john.ogilvie
Others:   john.ogilvie@canrem.com
Canada Remote Systems                        Toronto, Ontario, Canada
===
 * DeLuxe 1.12 #4055 *
 * QNet3 * <ADANET> Canada Remote Systems - Toronto, Ontario - (416)798-4713

--
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Internet: John.Ogilvie@f24.n3602.z1.fidonet.org




------



Subject: Braille n speak complaint
From: Tandy.Way@f6.n377.z1.fidonet.org (Tandy Way)
Organization: FidoNet node 1:377/6 - T.A.B.B., Tampa Fl


[This is from the Blink Talk Conference]

TC>n speak, or is it just not doing what you hoped it would? What
TC>are your complaints about it?

my employer bought it for me in some crazy move to buy a bunch of
equipment for the blinks nation wide. I have never thought much of
the device although people rant and rave about what a great piece
of dquipment it is. to me it is a seventeen hundred dollar note
taker or a portable perkins braille writer with speech and much
more porbable than a perkins. but if I were personally faced with a
choice of what to buy for on the go note taking and modem access
and the other things it will do I prefer my toshiba laptop any day
and twice on sunday. you know the old story tim, different strokes
for different folks. I am just not as taken by this gadget as
others on this echo who seem to think it is the best thing since
sliced bread. tandy

===
 * EZ 1.35 #661 * STEEL ALL MY TAGLINES, WHY DON'T YOU?

--
Uucp: ..!uunet!bunker!hcap!hnews!377!6!Tandy.Way
Internet: Tandy.Way@f6.n377.z1.fidonet.org




------



Subject: using readcom with speech
From: Tim.Cumings@p0.f460.n101.z1.fidonet.org (Tim Cumings)
Organization: FidoNet node 1:101/460.0 - VI/BUG, Holbrook MA


[This is from the Blink Talk Conference]

aI just got my copy of the new rfb quarterly catalog on disk including
the read.com program. i'm using it with vocal-eyes 1.1. the problem I'm
having is that i have to keep going in to Review mode to read  the
screen.

I had the same problem when using it with my asap demo and my version of
tiny talk. However, when I used read.com with soft vert 4.5 b, (and pay
attention, because I rarely have anything good to say about t s i) it
worked fine. I didn't have to jump into review mode to use the read.com
program effectively. Does anyone know why Soft Vert in particular works
better with read.com than either Vocal-eyes, asap, or tiny talk? By the
way, I didn't set up any special windows in Vert or anything like that.

Before you all tell me to forget using the read.com program and try
either Ralph or Sqwint, I did. Ralph worked fine, but the announcement
of the beginning line number of every new screen started annoying me.
Sqwint didn't have this problem, but Sqwint's problem was that when I
was doing searches by title, sqwint would read me the title, give me the
more command, and cut off pertinent information like the author of the
book and the publisher. By the way, I'm not trying to sound like a
complainer here.

--
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Internet: Tim.Cumings@p0.f460.n101.z1.fidonet.org




------



Subject: VIBUG meeting
From: Jamal.Mazrui@p0.f460.n101.z1.fidonet.org (Jamal Mazrui)
Organization: FidoNet node 1:101/460.0 - VI/BUG, Holbrook MA


[This is from the Blink Talk Conference]

The next meeting of VIBUG (Visually Impaired and Blind User Group)
will be held on Saturday, August 8 from 1 to 4 PM at National
Braille Press--located at 88 St. Stephen Street in Boston (phone
266-6160).

Jamal Mazrui of Access Success will demonstrate the Contact
Tracking System, version 3.0.  CTS combines the power of mainstream
mailing list managers with an integrated visual and verbal
interface, designed for convenient and efficient operation by blind
persons using speech output.  The program is well-suited for
maintaining address, phone number, and miscellaneous information on
customers, clients, members, or friends.  It can generate form
letters, produce mailing labels, and dial phone numbers with a
modem.

Demonstration copies of the software will be available at the
meeting.  The full version is offered at half price to members of
The Boston Computer Society/VIBUG.

	    For more information, contact:

	    Jamal Mazrui
	    VIBUG Director
	    745 Somerville Ave, Apt. 2
	    Somerville, MA  02143
	    Phone: (617) 666-9856

--
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Internet: Jamal.Mazrui@p0.f460.n101.z1.fidonet.org




------



Subject: Re: Windows access maybe
From: David.Tanner@f168.n129.z1.fidonet.org (David Tanner)
Organization: FidoNet node 1:129/168 - Braille Bank BBS, Pittsburgh PA


[This is from the Blink Talk Conference]

I liked your comments about GUI and Outspoken for the Mac.  Have
you had any experience or seen the Berkeley Windows Tool Kit?  If
so, what did you think and could you expound on what it does and
how it does it?

Thus far I have not seen anyone who went to the conventions mention
anything about seeing Window Bridge and am beginning to wonder if
the claim about Window Bridge was premature or vaporware.

        D. T.

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Internet: David.Tanner@f168.n129.z1.fidonet.org




------



Subject: Re: dogs and landlords
From: Tom.Gerhart@f168.n129.z1.fidonet.org (Tom Gerhart)
Organization: FidoNet node 1:129/168 - Braille Bank BBS, Pittsburgh PA


[This is from the Blink Talk Conference]

 KW> So how is it that I can be charged a pet deposit for a dog guide being
 KW> present in my home when California Civil Code says that a
 KW> landlord cannot levy any such extra charge? Also, why does
 KW> the same Civil Code make it very clear that even though
 KW> such an extra charge cannot be levied, just the same, the
 KW> dog guide user is responsible for any damage done by the
 KW> dog guide.

Karen,
I think according to the code you mentioned you should ask for a refund
of the $200.  The second point you made is whether the blind person
should be responsible for the actions of his or her dog. I think
that is very reasonable. tom G.

... Catch the Blue Wave!
___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.10

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Internet: Tom.Gerhart@f168.n129.z1.fidonet.org




------



Subject: Nls and nfb
From: Keith.Bucher@hnews.fidonet.org (Keith Bucher)
Organization: The Handicap News, Shelton CT (203) 337-1607


[This is from the Blink Talk Conference]

 Quoting Mike Freeman to Bill Koppelmann Mike Freeman 07-14-92  14:46

 MF> The reason NFB remained silent is that no one brought the subject
 MF> up. I've been at every convention from 1983 on and I have heard
 MF> plenty of complaints but that one's a new one on me.

 Hello Mike, it's not a new one on me.  1.  Cylke got the NFB's Vanity
 Press book published on cassette.  2.  Cylke attends NfB conventions
 each year.  3.  He isn't nearly as punctual about ACB's.  For
 example, he didn't make it to Phoenix.  Mike, are you saying that
 NFB only talks about subjects which someone brings up? I think if
 you look back in the Monitor, that alone will be proof enough that
 NFB has, and has had for some time now, a close relationship with
 Cylke.

... But it worked during Beta testing!
    Blue Wave/QWK v2.10

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------



Subject: Braille And Spelling
From: Nancy.Feldman@f605.n105.z1.fidonet.org (Nancy Feldman)
Organization: FidoNet node 1:105/605 - Purgatory BBS, Salem OR


[This is from the Blink Talk Conference]

SB>Hi Kelley: the same thing happened to me when I had to take spelling tests in
SB>Braille in elementary school. Had to write the words in grade 1 braille which
SB>seemed unnatural. Funny thing, when I got to secondary school, the teachers
SB>no longer cared and I wrote everything in grade 2. O well, guess some
SB>teachers just weren't consistent. Take care. Stew

I had to type my assignments from third grade on, so I had to learn to
spell.  I tried writing BRL for braille just once, and that was the end
of that.

Sigh.

 * SLMR 2.1a *         I've been seduced by the chocolate side of the Fo

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                                ******

                  End of Issue # 2825 of the Handicap Digest

                                ******
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU