From: donn@brat.wa.com (Donn Pedro)
Newsgroups: pnw.general
Subject: We are not here for you.
Date: 12 Nov 92 20:54:29 GMT
Organization: Tandemonium, Kent, WA

In article <1992Nov11.030813.3274@klic.rain.com> keithl@klic.rain.com (Keith Lofstrom) writes:
:
:Dick Winningstad (dickwin@sequent.com)  writes:
:
:> I am not a Christian fundamentalist. But I voted for Measure 9.
:
:And then gives a pretty good description of why a person would have voted for
:this measure.  This was IN RESPONSE to a request for reasons why someone 
:should vote for it.
:
:Mark Waggoner, Rick Lindsley, Donald Newell, David Barts, Robert Reed,
:John Light, and by now others have responded with tolerant and reasoned
:rebuttals; thanks folks ... couldn't have said it better myself!
:
:
:A couple of other clue-challenged individuals, who I will not name here, 
:responded with a parody and with a post containing such gems as:
:
:> Shame on you!  ...  Look, dummy ...  stop bashing ...  so they can spew out
:> all the propaganda their shriveled-up little hearts can generate ...  You
:> sound like you're saying that you're not one of those yahoos who sponsored
:> the bill, and we should not attempt to confuse you with them.  How do you
:> suggest we tell you all apart?
:
:Now just WHAT in the hell brought THAT on?  

Being sick and tired of hearing, every day, from many different sources,
that you or your friends and family are immoral, perverted, a threat 
to children, a security risk, less than human, not fit to be a parent,
or not fit to live, period.

There are those who are out there every day, have challenged bigotry
in the workplace and taken risks to answer things like Dick said.
I did.  It really hassled one week away and it was no fun.
Some of us are a little tired of always haveing to educate, having to
tolerate ignorant, insecure, sometimes malicious people.  

Sometimes, out of frustration, all we want to do is answer with a 
hearty, "F*UCK YOU BIGOT!"

But we don't, most of the time.  What we do do is stand in the face
of these people and let them know that it won't be tolerated in a free
society.  That with with the right to speak comes the chance that 
someone will challenge your words.  And some of us, in the face
of judgements about our lack of willingness to educate, challenge
those people.

Sure, some of the responses aren't 'nice' and some of them aren't
civil, but some of us aren't here for them.

If someone comes up to me as *asks*, wants to know, I will take
whatever time is necessary to help them learn.  I will do everything
in my power to help them learn, to help them understand.  I've done
it many times.  Times at work, in bars, in social gatherings, with
my family, and my friends.  All of these times it was becuase they
were  there to listen, not to proclaim.  It may not seem like it, but
I have been known to be supportive and rather nice.

But, when a Dick shows up, IN RESPONSE (and that's no excuse.  "So tell
me Mr. White Supremicist, why should jews be purged from your Arayan
Nation?") to a question with the things he said, I don't have to educate 
him.  You can try, but with the way the article came across, and the 
subsequent confirmations that he thinks queers are immoral, some of us 
really aren't going to be too concerned about how offended he is by our
reaction to his rationalizations for voting his morals into law.

Anyone who attempts to educate said people have my deepest respect
and admiration.  It's not an easy, nor usually sucessful task.
I commend you for it and wish you the best of luck.  One clue,
don't try it with Lon Mabon, I don't think he'd listen very well.

: We asked "Why yes on 9", 

No, I didn't ask.  I'm not a knowitall, but the songs that get 
sung in support of things like 9 have long left the top 40 charts.
They are playing on the oldies stations and ballots now.  

:There
:aren't going to be many people with as much courage as Dick who will speak
:up and let us know what they are thinking - there will be less if the
:flamemongers short circuit the process with vituperation.  

You have a point.  The voters in colorado lied, when polled, because 
many of them were *ashamed* of thier stand on human rights.

Now which should someone be ashamed of, being queer, or being a bigot?

Which is more deserved?

:We won't
:educate anybody by calling them names or making fun of them. 

Somone who is trying to rob you of something (rights, money, your life)
rarely listens to reason, rarely wants an education.  I know you consider
Dick a moderate, someone who could swing either way, but I do not see
it that way.

Sure he spoke up.  But, courage?  For what?  His stand on human rights 
was challenged as it deserved to be.  

:Know your enemy!  It is NOT Dick Winningstad, nor is it the vast majority
:of the others who voted for 9.  The enemy is misinformation, correctable
:preconceptions, and fear of the unknown.  We are fortunate that those
:are all things we can do something about.

When Dick is spreading misinformation it needs to be answered.  Please 
understand that some of us react with more directness than you may care
for, but that does not necessarily make one 'clueless'.  A reaction to
what Dick said is not necessarily an attack *on* Dick.

And a post written with force and conviction is not necessarily 
one written in anger.



         Donn Pedro ....................a.k.a. donn@brat.wa.com
	
	       "You talk the talk.  Do you walk the walk?"

		    There are no ordinary moments.