From: west@ponder.csci.unt.edu (Bruce West)
Subject: Re: Ken/Ryu stuff
Organization: University of North Texas, Denton
Date: Thu, 12 Nov 1992 02:14:22 GMT

In article <BxKAnD.K0K@usenet.ucs.indiana.edu> bodom@silver.ucs.indiana.edu (Brian Odom) writes:
>In <1992Nov11.055949.25552@mercury.unt.edu> west@ponder.csci.unt.edu (Bruce West) writes:
>
>>>Tell me, what's Bison's weakness???   I don't know of one
>
>>  *LACK OF MOVE VARIATION*  His 2 major attacks are both forward body
>> [stuff gone]
>
>Seems like all the boss characters suffer from this, but to me, Bison has more
>variation than the other boss characters (see Vega or Balrog).

  I hardly think Sagat's great arsenal has no variation.  Vega can come straight
at you, jump of walls, and scream to either side of the screen and throw or hit
on the way down.  Balrog has the same problem, granted.  Balrog also sucks, if
you noticed.

>> [we're talking about the TROpedo now]
>Don't use fireballs.  Trust me.  Even if you know he's going to torpedo, 
>Dhalsim's fireballs come out slow and hit WAY late.  If you fireball and 
>Bison's on the other side of the screen, the fireball won't hit Bison on the
>head.  It won't hit him until the fireball is in the middle of the torpedo
>which by the time, Bison will STILL hit you with his cheese as it continues 
>to penetrate.  Dhalsim's fireballs have very low priority compared to Bison's
>cheese.  Use the crouch punch to get away.  But, a lot of screwdrivers get you

    Fireball barrage dammit.  It takes away the torpedo.  Not a single FB
when he is gonna flame - just a matter of strat.

>in trouble.  Bison will simply block, then throw.  The problem is don't let him
>start it, but how to prevent that is another question.

    I didn't say screwdriver into him.  A screwdriver into his torpedo will
stop it, btw.

>
>>FOR ALL CHARACTERS:  Hitting him in the head will stop it.  Or, as it seems
>> many are incapable of grasping this -- JUMP FOOL!  Ryu can fireball you 10
>>times and you take damage, but nobody complains cause its spread out.  If you
>>are dumb enough to let someone hit you with a flam - take your 4 blocked 
>>FBs worth of damage!  JESUS!
>> [notice the word JUMP above - this guy can't read it]
>I can tell that you are a Ryu/Ken player because obviously, you don't realize
>how strong the cheese is.  Take away your DP and you're history.

  Wrong.  But I can play em.

> [stupid stuff deleted]
>How do you get close to a Bison?  He will use the cheese to knock you down
>as you jump, then cheese all over your fallen body.  After that, you're right
>back to where you started, but with a lot less energy.  

  Survery says..... *braindead*.  If he torpedos your fallen body you will
be about 4 inches out of the corner with Bison in the corner.  If you can't
pull off a move from that situation just go home.

>
>OK, here's the situation.  You're about half way across the screen from Bison
>and he cheeses.  What do to?  (my character doesn't have a DP).  I must hit
>him in the head.  OK, I'll try that.  BLAM!!!  I go down.  I take even more

   No, you don't need to hit him in the head.  ever heard of JUMP FOOL!
From that "BLAM!!!" I take it you suck?  You can't jump straight up and 
roundhouse?  WHO are you playing...everyone has an easy move to stop
him with.  Can't you read?

>damage after he cheeses my fallen body.  Oh, I guess I shouldn't have done
>that, because I didn't hit him when it STARTED.  But how would I have been able

   Who said it had to be when it started?  Just hit him in the head, how hard
is it - CHRIST!

>to do that?  OK, he cheeses again.  This time I jump back and hit him in the
>head.  yay!!  Damn, I hit him, and I still got flamed.  (Blue body falling from
>the air).  He cheeses over my fallen body for another 3-4 hits of damage.

   Damn you suck!

>I'm losing very badly, due to getting hit by cheese 10-15 times.  He comes at
>me once again.  Knowing that I losing badly, I reflect back to this post.
>Out of instinct, I suddenly remember, "JUMP FOOL!"  I must be careful because
>if I jump back, the parallax scrolling will kill me.  To my surprise, I jump
>over it.  Oh no, he comes again.  (Damn, how do I get in close to play MY 

   Jump TOWARD him.  You will have atleast 1 sec before he can stop and come
back.  MISSLE attack when you land.  This defeats all you earlier premises.
If you would have just done this initially you would have taken NO damage
and he would be open for your barrage.

>game?  This is really annoying!)  I jump over it, but his freaking feet hit me
>and kill me!      (I was using Balrog)

  Why did you use Balrog v Bison?!?!?  In addition, then everytime he went
for a flame you should have sonic punched his ass to hell.  This entire
example is filled with inconsistencies and a shit strategy.  Learnt to play
before you bitch.  If you would like to post a LEGITIMATE situation Bison
is sticking you in - I'll be happy to tell you the way out.  But the above
is crap.  "When I play this slow moving guy and use none of his special
moves I can't get in on him?  Huh?"

>
>a) cheese has priority, once it's started it's HARD to knock him out of it
>unless you have a DP or are Zangief

    Or a razor kick!  Or Chun heel kick!  That's 6 characters so far with an
easy way out.  Vega can backward sumersault and throw on landing.  Honda
can do hands.  Balrog can lay him out with a super punch.  Dhalsim can
twister right into his head.  That's everybody.  EASY ENOUGH?!?!

>b) his "big burning body" is too LONG.  makes it difficult to jump over.

    How difficult is it to JUMP?!?!  You just jump!  (toward him, btw)
I've never missed a jump over a fierce torpedo, so I cannot empathize
here.

>c) cheese comes at you pretty fast.  makes it tough for you to jump over.

   cheese comes out SLOW, moves fast.  Blanka can clear the screen before
you can START the Bison.

>d) cheese knocks you out of the air.  makes it difficult to even touch Bison

   Like a DP?  Whaaaa.  Anyway, if you jump from the *correct* distance you
cannot get flamed and will be right next to him.  This distance is the
distance from which you can jump in and kick his head.  How hard can it
be?!?!  Then you're in.  This simple.  I've never even heard someone
bitch about not "getting in" in Bison before.  BISON is the one who bitches
about not getting in on others.

>e) cheese does buttloads of damage even when blocked.
>f) after getting knocked down, cheese kills you with major damage.

   If you consider 4 blocked fireballs major damage.  Maybe should spend
some more time on your feet?

>g) need power move to knock him out of cheese.  can't jab like against Blanka
>or Honda (see a) )

   And he can't electrify or do a hundred hand slap. 'nuff said.

>A good way, I guess to avoiding the cheese, is to actually play Bison and
>cheese the computer and watch how the computer avoids the cheese.  
>Unfortunately, the computer doesn't even know what to do.

   That was an intelligent statement.

>  [my easy way to pin Bison in a corner deleted]
>Block a couple of torpedoes.  That does NOT equal an inch!!  Each BLOCKED
>torpedo takes off about 10% damage.  TOO much for a BLOCKED attack.

  So you are saying the energy bars are more than 10 inchs long? 'nuff said.
And it DOESN'T take any 10% off when blocked.  It hits me 4 times, how about
you?

>(as it comes out)  That's all I hear!  What to do WHEN it's coming rather than
>AS it comes out?

   Read my counters to the torpedo for the 2nd time.  This time read it
slowly.

>  [ guy explains to me how Blanka can't ball Bison from a half screen away.]
>>>  d) hell, the el-cheapo move.    strong cheese, throw   (real gooey)
>
>>   Easy to counter.  Roundhouse throw with Ken/Ryu.  Strong throw well
>>timed from any other character.  SPD will work.  So will Razor kick.
>
>Not easy to counter.  Razor kick isn't too successful, even though I've been
>able to pull it off.  If Bison does a strong cheese, then starts spazzing on
>the strong button, it's tough to beat him to the throw.  Somehow, in the midst
>of all his button presses, you have to somehow beat him to throw.  Not easy
>as you may think it is.

   It has never worked on me.  Not to mention if the guy goes for a strong
torpedo you can outjump it backwards.  THINK!

>>>4) head stomp  (Ken's delay time is too much.   a fireball and he gets stomped)
>
>>    Takes *perfect* anticipation/timing to do this.  Maybe don't throw fireballs
>>while Bison is obviously charging for it and waiting?  Just a thought.
>
>true enough, but when Bison is charging, he's in "triple threat" position.
>He can torpedo, scissor kick, or head stomp.  Bison can mix it up pretty well.

   So he can go forward or jump at you?  THAT'S MIXING IT UP?  No wonder you
lose.  

>>>6) good aerial priority
>
>>    Does this mean his kick beats whomever you play? aerial priority means
>>next to nothing - you have to guess if you wanna kick or punch is the
>>thing.  And his air attacks are very quick (retraction).  If you do it
>>to early you're coming down naked.
>
>Bison doesn't have the best aerial priority.  Next to nothing, HA!  Ok, then.
>I want to see you use Dhalsim and try to kick Blanka out of his jumping forward
>kick.  Yes, I WANT to kick him, but his priority is greater than mine.

    Jump backwards and hit roundhouse.  Knocks down Blanka every time.

>  [more stuff showing this guy doesn't know facts deleted]
>>>8) jumps VERY high   (knocks all those Vegas off the machine   :)  )
>
>>   WAY to long hang time.  FB/DP "tick" works extremely well on him.  HE
>>is almost in capable of being effective FROM the air.  Takes him way to
>>long to get to ya (if you are on the ground).

   No response?  hehe.  THINK!

>>   A Bison master has a *Real* tough time v. Z, Chun, Ken/Ryu, Guile. 
>
>-- 
>Brian T Odom
>
>"We are all manufacturers -- some make good, others make trouble, and still
>others make excuses."

 Ciao....



                                                              - Jason,

btw:  Don't respond by mail - I don't get it :(
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