Newsgroups: alt.messianic,talk.religion.misc
Subject: Re: ***MoJ: Proof 1: The Amazing Prophecy***
From: <RBNXHS@rohvm1.rohmhaas.com>
Date: Fri, 22 Jan 1993 10:08:23 EST
Organization: Rohm and Haas Company

This is in response to Vijay's claim that Daniel 9:25-27 prove the
messiahship of Jesus: In his argument Vijay uses Nehemiah 2:1 to suggest
that the counting of years (69x7) should proceed from 445 B.C.E. The
argument is very weak and biased to the core. Why should one count from
the 20th year of Artaxerxes's rule? The vision in Daniel has nothing to
do with Artaxerexes's period. In Dan. 9:1 he mentioned that the year of
his prophecy was the first year of Darius the son of Ahasuerus. Why not
then take that year as the beginning of the year count? You simply can't
take any year you like in order to prove the messianic prophecy, if at all,
of the verse Dan. 9:25-27. The other important fact which some of these
zealous christians try to dodge about is the very fact that there has
not been any Persian king, named Darius, who was SON of Ahasuerus. The
author(s) of the book of Daniel simply screwed up here. While it is BELIEVED
that Daniel was taken into captivity during the time of Nebuchadnezzar and
lived through the time of Cyrus and possibly Darius, a distant relative of
Cyrus, Darius was NOT the son of Ahasuerus. Vijay's historical dates are also
wrong. He said "Any version which puts Cyrus as the anointed prince starts
at 586 BCE, the date of the destruction of Jerusalem. But such versions fail
since Daniel states the year of the prophecy in verse 1, as the first year
of Darius the Mede, i.e. 538 B.C..." The fact of the matter is Jerusalem was
destroyed in 586 B.C, when Cyrus the Great was not even born. He defeated
the Babylonians and captured Jerusalem in 538 B.C.E. After his death, there
was a brief period of turmoil relating to the ascension to the throne, and
eventually Darius, who is related to Cyrus, through Cambysses, ascended to
the throne. Darius ruled for a much longer time and was a noble king, much
   in common with his cousin - Cyrus. Any book of history on Persia will clear
the ignorance of Vijay in this matter.

Cyrus, indeed, was known as Masih or Messiah by the Jews (Isa. 45:1). Here, I
would like to bring to your attention the fact that the belief or faith
of Cyrus (as known through the Behistun inscription) was much in common with
that of the children of Israel, i.e., belief in one God without any association
. He was a follower of a non-Jewish prophet Zoroaster. (Please, note that the
current belief of Zorastrians have gone through several changes, and it may be
difficult for many to discern the truth within its Books from falsehood. These
changes were mostly as a result of destruction of their scriptures by Alexander
the great during the 4th century B.C., and also the penetration of older Magian
beliefs into the teachings of Zoroaster.)

If the prophecy of Daniel, if at all, was fulfilled it was the first 7x7 = 49
years (586-49=537 B.C) (ca. 538 B.C) when the jews were rescued from the
Babylonian bondage. (Note that the notion of 360 days in a year is totally
wrong. G. Friedenberg has shown that the Jewish practice has been to round the
years by adding a leap month so that solar year is taken care of every third
year. The Muslim Arabs, their cousins, have used lunar calendar, which is 3%
less than a solar year, without any adjustment, i.e., the month of Ramadan-
the month of fasting, rotates from summer to winter, etc.) The use of 360
days for a year, to the best of my knowledge, is unheard of in the middle-east.
It probably only exists in the fertile minds of christian missionaries to
prove the messianic claims about Jesus, the son of Mary. Even if one were to
accept the 360 days=1 year argument, for the sake of argument, where is the
fulfillment of the prophecy through Jesus? And why should one count from the
twentieth year of Artaxerxes's rule (445 B.C) and why not 528 B.C or 515/516 BC
(the latter date being the year when the Temple was rebuilt)? One cannot simply
pick a number at one's whims to prove a certain prophecy?

The other question that any non-christian can pose is if one WEEK in those pro-
phecies mean 7 years (i.e., 1 DAY=1 YEAR), how do you account for Daniel 8:14,
where it mentions 2300 days for the sanctuary to be cleansed? Should one consi-
der this to mean 2300 years? (Note the temple was built after 70 years, i.e.,
586-516=70.) The second temple, for your information, was destroyed by Titus
in 70 C.E. How does a christian account for Daniel 8:14 in the light of prophe-
tic prophecy?

----
H. Siddiqui.