HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: mikeq@aspen.CNA.TEK.COM (Mike Quigley)
Newsgroups: rec.kites
Subject: Re: Advice sought on NBK & Lite Flight
Date: 27 Jul 92 21:22:08 GMT
Organization: Tektronix, Inc., Redmond,  OR.

Attn: REVmonsters!

What's a recommended distance between a REV 1 and II when you
stack 'em? Also, do you tie-off at the same places on both kites?
Also, the II in front and the I in back, right? 

Thanks,

Mike
Newsgroups: rec.kites
From: gaffer@ibmpcug.co.uk (Andrew Beattie)
Subject: Re: Peels (was Re: Ultralight, slow, precise...)
Organization: The IBM PC User Group, UK.
Date: Thu, 30 Jul 1992 08:32:25 GMT

In article <1992Jul29.210405.1@cc.newcastle.edu.au> c8934948@cc.newcastle.edu.au (Adam Jones) writes:
>He only got half way across the park and was
>pulled clean out of the buggy. He lost hold of one of the handles and the
>kite remained inflated and continued to do cicles in the power zone. As for
>the guy he got pulled across the park on his face and I did not have a hope
>in hell of catching him.
This is to be expected.  Some of us would describe this as fun :-)

>The kite finally came to rest over 150m away in a
>tree across the top of the power lines. latter when the wind was stronger
>I was flying a stack of 5 8' flexies and only just getting dragged.
This, however sounds stupid.  If he was dragged (say) 150m then you were both
flying serious power kites only 300m upwind from power lines? sheesh!

Andrew
From: dcommins@hayes.com
Newsgroups: rec.kites
Subject: Re: Hot Cutting
Date: 24 Jul 92 11:37:17 GMT
Organization: Hayes Microcomputer Products, Norcross, GA

In article <Bruotu.1tE@watserv1.waterloo.edu>, ncrwater@watserv1.waterloo.edu 
(Latala - ICR) writes:
> I'd wonder about handling the tubes for any length of time with lead shot in
> them. Is this going to cause any problems?
> 
> I know that the shotgunners also use steel shot. I'm not sure if it's cheaper
> or not, but it might not be as hazardous as the lead shot (if indeed the lead
> shot is hazardous).

When I first read this, I thought "Are you serious???" but then I realized
there is a real concern if you have small children or pets. As far as
handling the tubes, I don't think you should be worried, it's not like you're
bathing in the shot or eating it. However, children or pets may get hold of
one and break it open and eat it so, perhaps you're right, best get steel
if you can.

------
Drew Commins - Senior Software Engineer           Internet: dcommins@hayes.com
Hayes Microcomputer Products, Inc.                AppleLink: D1958
P.O. Box 105203                                   CIS: 76067,2327
Atlanta, GA  30348                                Amateur Radio: N4XOK
404-840-9200





Newsgroups: rec.kites
From: andy@osea.demon.co.uk (Andrew Haveland-Robinson)
From: dcommins@hayes.com
Newsgroups: rec.kites
Subject: Re: Theft 
Date: 30 Jul 92 08:49:58 GMT
Distribution: world
Organization: Hayes Microcomputer Products, Norcross, GA

> In article <1992Jul27.000252.682@syacus.acus.oz.au>
> grantm@syacus.acus.oz.au writes:
> 
>>Theft is becoming a growing concern with me as well. There have been numerous
>>occasion where someone has been eyeing off a couple of my kites. At the NSW
>>Kiting Championship in Australia, one guy had his Phantom stolen and someone
>>else had there parafoil taken.
>>
>>I have been thinking about writing my details onto the kite, but have not
>>found a suitable marker that will write finely, not rub off and STAND OUT
>>on black/white leading edge dacron. Anyone had any success at finding a
>>suitable marker??
>>
>>Thanks, Grant..

How 'bout using one of those gold markers that people sign kites with. They
produce a reasonably fine line and as far as I can tell, are permanent. I've
seen artists sign autographs on the glass of framed pieces and it won't
rub off. You can get them at most art/printing supply stores.

------
Drew Commins - Senior Software Engineer           Internet: dcommins@hayes.com
Hayes Microcomputer Products, Inc.                AppleLink: D1958
P.O. Box 105203                                   CIS: 76067,2327
Atlanta, GA  30348                                Amateur Radio: N4XOK
404-840-9200


Newsgroups: rec.kites
From: andy@osea.demon.co.uk (Andrew Haveland-Robinson)
Subject: Innovation 
Distribution: world
Organization: Haveland-Robinson Associates
Date: Fri, 31 Jul 1992 01:32:03 +0000


In article <1992Jul30.095049.12311@ibmpcug.co.uk> gaffer@ibmpcug.co.uk writes:

>I don't have the details of the guy involved or the competition, but I saw
>some amazing pictures last night of a UK kid (age 14 or so) flying Revolutions
>in an innovation contest.  He flew them blindfold!  from take off, through
>a display, with landings and everything.  He made one mistake.  When he picked
>up his handles, he got them in the wrong hands, so he ended up doing the
>routine upside down and didn't even know until he took the blind fold off.
>
>I wish I'd been there to see it.
>
>Andrew

That sounds pretty amazing... My claim to innovation is flying two 10'
flexis simultaneously and independently using hands and feet - simply
lock the skyclaws around your ankles and hang on!  You really do need
anchoring for this one though...

(We will be passing by your favourite venue around 3-4 pm on Saturday,
I'll bring the flexi along and we can try a stack of 8 >gulp< )
I'll ring to confirm in any case.

Andy.

+-------------------------------------------------------------------------+
| Haveland-Robinson Associates     | Email: andy@osea.demon.co.uk         |
| Pine Cottage, Osea Island, Essex |        ahaveland@cix.compulink.co.uk |
| CM9 8UH England.  0621-88756     | Also:  081-800 1708  081-802 4502    |
+-------------------------------------------------------------------------+
From: chesl@garnet.berkeley.edu (Gail Chesler)
Newsgroups: rec.kites
Subject: Which hours are the best in Berkeley?
Date: 23 Jul 92 02:47:56 GMT
Distribution: ba
Organization: University of California, Berkeley
NNTP-Posting-Host: garnet.berkeley.edu
Originator: chesl@garnet.berkeley.edu

There's a kite happening in Berkeley this weekend.  I've never
been to such a thing, and have very little time this weekend, but
I really want to watch the professionals fly kites.  Can anyone
advise me as to what the best 2-3 hours would be to watch the
Berkeley festival - and how to get wherever it is....

Thanks for your help - email is lovely to Gail Chesler 
(chesl@garnet.berkeley.edu)
Newsgroups: rec.kites
From: ncrwater@watserv1.waterloo.edu (Latala - ICR)
Subject: Re: what is the highest a kite has ever been flown?
Organization: University of Waterloo
Date: Thu, 23 Jul 1992 16:31:16 GMT

In article <7850@dirac.physics.purdue.edu> murphy@gibbs.physics.purdue.edu (William J. Murphy) writes:
>
>One of the recent Popular Mechanics has a column article about the use of kites
>in atmospheric research.  The current record is around 33,000 ft.  The kite was
>flown in the Pacific on an island well away from the usual air traffic patterns.

(Our site expired the original article otherwise I would have followed it up)

From the book: 

	Kiteworks
	Explorations in kite building and flying
	by Maxwell Eden
	1989
	ISBN 0-8069-6712-9

Chapter 25: World Kiting Records

Altitude (single kite): 12,471 feet (3,801 metres)

On February 28, 1898, in Milton, Massachusetts, near the Blue Hill Observatory
outside of Boston, a modified Hargrave box kit with about 86 sq. ft. of sail
area rose more than 2 miles over the earth's surface. The kite's flying line
was piano wire with a breaking strength of 330 lbs. The flight was conducted
by meteorologists Henry Helm Clayton and A. E. Sweetland under the supervision
of Abbot Lawrence Rotch, director of the privately operated observatory.

Altitute (kite train): 31,955 feet (9,740 metres)

This as-yet-unbroken record was achieved with eight kites over Lindenburg (now
New East Germany) on August 1, 1919.

Largest kite: 5,952 sq. feet (553 sq. metres)

The record was set on August 8, 1981, by a Dutch team on the beach at
Scheveningen, The Netherlands, with a 506-lb. inflatable airfoil type of kite.

Unofficially, since no claims were made, the largest kite ever built was the
Budweiser parafoil, which measured 115 feet by 124 feet, or 14,260 sq ft.
Build under the supervision of Harry Osborne, the giant required 10 men jsut
to move it. Flown by a team of 22 people at the Washington State International
Kite Festival at Long Beach in 1983, the kite was anchored to two dumpsters
fully loaded with sand. As the kite began to rise, it amazed onlookers by
dragging both dumpsters sideways nearly 4 feet across loose sand. Soon after
people reported hearing what sounded like the loudest lightning they had
ever heard. the 2 inch thick nylon flying line with its 25,000 lb. work load
snapped under the intense pulling power.

Most kites on one line: 2,233

Under the direction of Kinji Tsuda, the Hiroshima Kite Club set the record 
recognized by the Japanese Kite Association. the 13" x 13" Diamond Eddy shaped
kites were made of bamboo spars with plastic sail material.

Most Dual-line kites stunted in train: 179

Ken Frederick of San Diego flew and maneuvered the centipedelike record-setting
stack of modified Hyperkites at Long Beach, Washington, on August 23, 1986.

-----
Any spelling mistakes are probably mine...

The book is quite interesting. It covers the construction of around thirty kite
type with a couple of variations on most type
.
Newsgroups: rec.kites
From: andy@osea.demon.co.uk (Andrew Haveland-Robinson)
Subject: Computers & Kite Making (Was: Hot Cutting) 
Distribution: world
Organization: Haveland-Robinson Associates
Date: Mon, 27 Jul 1992 00:37:20 +0000


In article <1992Jul25.011638.18420@nds.com> brian@nds.com writes:

>
>sasaki@sasaki.zko.dec.com (Marty Sasaki) writes:
>: In article <63580@hydra.gatech.EDU>, sc5@prism.gatech.EDU (CSEPLO,STEPHEN P)> writes:
>: |>I'm a little different in that I come out of Autocad, no hand drawn stuff
>: |>for me unless I miss a little bit and don't want to replot. Being on
>: |>a micro CAD system makes allowances a breeze and changing size is as
>: |>easy as plotting to a different scale. To say nothing of being precise.
>: |>Normally my kites are within 1/16" of being perfectly symetrical. God, I  
>: |>love CAD.
>: 
>: I would love to have a CAD system with a big plotter. Right now I use
>: rulers and calculators to scale drawings and such. Anybody want to
>: donate a computer and a large plotter?
>
>Who needs a large plotter?  I use a dot matrix printer spitting out
>8-1/2" x 11" sheets of paper.  My computer calculates all of the
>dimensions and prints sheets of the important angles (i.e. every
>place that will be connected with only a straight line).  I then
>dig out my straight edge and "connect the dots".
>
>It's not as simple as an E size plotter, but it's easier than drawing the
>whole pattern by hand.
>
>Brian

This is one good thing about Micrografx Designer for Windows, designs can
be tiled over 100 or more A4 sheets if desired!  Gets very tedious with the
sellotape and cutting the margins off too...


Andy.                     There is madness in my method, but it works...

+-------------------------------------------------------------------------+
| Haveland-Robinson Associates     | Email: andy@osea.demon.co.uk         |
| Pine Cottage, Osea Island, Essex |        ahaveland@cix.compulink.co.uk |
| CM9 8UH England.  0621-88756     | Also:  081-800 1708  081-802 4502    |
+-------------------------------------------------------------------------+
From: vail@tegra.COM (Johnathan Vail)
Newsgroups: rec.kites
Subject: Re: Computers & Kite Making (Was: Hot Cutting)
Date: 27 Jul 92 20:12:41 GMT
Organization: Tegra, Inc., Billerica, MA
In-reply-to: andy@osea.demon.co.uk's message of 27 Jul 92 00:37:20 GMT


In article <712213302snx@osea.demon.co.uk> andy@osea.demon.co.uk (Andrew Haveland-Robinson) writes:

   In article <1992Jul25.011638.18420@nds.com> brian@nds.com writes:

   >
   >sasaki@sasaki.zko.dec.com (Marty Sasaki) writes:
   >: In article <63580@hydra.gatech.EDU>, sc5@prism.gatech.EDU (CSEPLO,STEPHEN P)> writes:
   >: 
   >: I would love to have a CAD system with a big plotter. Right now I use
   >: rulers and calculators to scale drawings and such. Anybody want to
   >: donate a computer and a large plotter?
   >
   >Who needs a large plotter?  I use a dot matrix printer spitting out
   >8-1/2" x 11" sheets of paper.  My computer calculates all of the
   >It's not as simple as an E size plotter, but it's easier than drawing the
   >whole pattern by hand.
   >
   >Brian

What, you mean everyone doesn't have 24" wide 1000x500 dpi postscript
laser printers?

(for the quick "check" plots anyway)

[we make such a beast as a proofing printer for newspapers primarily
 before they make films]


jv


"Like a clock, they sent, through, a washing machine:
 come around, make it soon, so alone." -- Syd Barrett
 _____
|     | Johnathan Vail     vail@tegra.com     (508) 663-7435
|Tegra| jv@n1dxg.ampr.org    N1DXG@448.625-(WorldNet)
 -----  MEMBER: League for Programming Freedom (league@prep.ai.mit.edu)

Newsgroups: rec.kites
From: brian@nds.com (Brian Dockter)
Subject: Re: Hot Cutting
Organization: Northwest Digital Systems
Date: Sat, 25 Jul 92 01:18:22 GMT
X-Newsreader: Tin 1.1 PL3

sasaki@sasaki.zko.dec.com (Marty Sasaki) writes:
: A tip from Bob
: Brannen, one of my Storm Front team mates is to use aluminum tape on
: the edges of the cardboard.

Where can you get aluminum tape?

Brian
-- 
Brian Dockter                    | Northwest Digital Systems
UUCP: uunet!nds!brian            | Voice: 206-524-0014
Internet: brian@nds.com          | FAX: 206-524-0018
From: jeffy@syrinx.umd.edu (Jeffrey C. Burka)
Newsgroups: rec.kites
Subject: Re: Sky Dancer
Date: 28 Jul 92 11:56:40 GMT
Organization: University of Maryland at College Park

In article <1992Jul27.144802.8714@midway.uchicago.edu> ar12@midway.uchicago.edu writes:

>So, I asked the person flying it (a 3/4 size delta) what it was
>and who makes it- the reply was "Sky-Dancer and I do". 

Sounds like an interesting kite.

>Apparently, the "noise fix" is a tension line in the
>sail's trailing edge and the kite is normally sold without it since
>he claimed it cut sail life down to about 100hrs.

This is the part I can't figure out.  I have no idea why the tensioning
line would shorten sail life.  If anything, I would expect it to increase
sail life.  The noise a kite makes comes from vibrations in its trailing
edge.  This can put a lot of stress on that section of the kite.  Often
the damage I see on a sail is along the noisy parts of the trailing edge.

Jeff


-- 
|Jeffrey C. Burka                | "Show what you are / Be strong, be true  |
|                                |  Time for you to / Be who you are."      |
|jeffy@syrinx.umd.edu            |                         --Happy Rhodes   |
From: sc5@prism.gatech.EDU (CSEPLO,STEPHEN P)
Newsgroups: rec.kites
Subject: Re: Computers & Kite Making (Was: Hot Cutting)
Date: 27 Jul 92 17:16:34 GMT
Organization: Georgia Institute of Technology

Yea, all the notes about printing out to small sheets will work, but
I've got access to the other so why not? If you're really into it,
most print shops offer plotting services these days, but that can
run into some money. Maybe if your were going to do a production
run of kites it would be worth it. Maybe not.

I'll shut up about it now, and sorry if I made any one jealous.

I have gotten a request to send a basic principles idea about cad out
so when it get done, I'll post it back (in addition to sending it
to the requestor). That will discuss things such as layers, drawing
commands, symbols, etc.

Later.

 

-- 

The Mad Hata  

"Hey, Mon....Tako Kichi!"
From: pat@cs.strath.ac.uk (Pat Prosser)
Newsgroups: rec.kites
Subject: Re: Peels (was Re: Ultralight, slow, precise...)
Date: 30 Jul 92 10:58:22 GMT
Organization: Comp. Sci. Dept., Strathclyde Univ., Glasgow, Scotland.

In article <1992Jul29.163100.12113@midway.uchicago.edu> ar12@midway.uchicago.edu writes:
>Ok, so, like, what's a peel? After following this thread I've got to have one!
>How much do they cost and where can one be purchased? Oh, and who makes them?
> 
>Andre

The Peel (called a peel because it is shaped like a segment
from an orange peel) is made by Peter Lynn, and is 
sold via Kenny Knight in the UK. Both Kenny and Peter are from
New Zealand. I've seen a peel in use (at Washington UK this
July) and I would say (my opinion) that it is lethal.

The instance I refer to was Kenny lending the Peel to some enthusiastic flyer
(we will refer to him as EF). EF was dragged at least 150 feet at high speed.
EF headed to one of the large Marquee tents, and was taken for a ride towards 
those nice long iron tent pegs they use. I was expecting EF to lose
his wedding tackle. EF eventually landed the Peel, but at no time was
he in control. EF was a passenger. 

Peter Lynn also markets a buggy that is used with the Peel.
You might have seen photographs of this being used on one of those
infinitely long, perfectly surfaced beaches in NZ. The Peel 
pulls you along in the Buggy at great speed. Kenny showed me
the buggy, nicely made, but the tread had been ripped of the
tyres due to speed in the turns. 

Again, my opinion. If you are into sand yachting, then consider the 
Peel + Buggy. Otherwise .... ask for a small one.


Patrick
From: jeffy@syrinx.umd.edu (Jeffrey C. Burka)
Newsgroups: rec.kites
Subject: Re: Advice sought on NBK & Lite Flight
Date: 28 Jul 92 13:40:37 GMT
Organization: University of Maryland at College Park

In article <1992Jul27.181943.10493@nntpd.lkg.dec.com> sasaki@tle.enet.dec.com writes:

>|>She says that the Lite Flight is VERY slow, doesn't have that much
>|>pull, and of course flies in VERY low winds.
>
>Yes, the Lite Flight does fly slowly, even in high winds. It turns
>slowly, but can be set up to turn sharply, and it is very stable. It
>is considered by some to the be the ultimate ultra-light team kite.

My LiteFlite S flies in virtually no wind and is the easiest kite I own for
doing 360s and over-the-tops.  On the other hand, it _is_ fast, and no amount
of tuning (including rebridling it to match the specs suggested to me by
another net.person (thanks)) has gotten it to turn sharply.  In addition,
while the sail is Carrington, the frame is some sort of cheap carbon 
that one can see flexing even in light winds.

>Commercial Warning!

Non-commercial warning--I have no ties to Marty...

>I make an ultra-light version of two kites, the MDM-4

One of the guys I know who has an MDM-4 does a lot of ultra-ultralight
work with it, and on no wind days can be seen gently walking the kite in
360s.  It's very slow (especially as compared to my LiteFlite!) and
stable and turns nicely.  It's also a good team kite.  I should note though
that this particular kite is framed with Easton 3-30.  I'm not sure how
this compares to whatever Marty usually frames his MDM-4 with.  (Marty--fyi,
this is Gary Sweely; Darryl and Derrick usually only pull out theirs for
team flying)
 
Jeff
-- 
|Jeffrey C. Burka                | "Show what you are / Be strong, be true  |
|                                |  Time for you to / Be who you are."      |
|jeffy@syrinx.umd.edu            |                         --Happy Rhodes   |
Newsgroups: rec.kites
From: gaffer@ibmpcug.co.uk (Andrew Beattie)
Subject: Re: Peels
Organization: The IBM PC User Group, UK.
Date: Thu, 30 Jul 1992 19:14:27 GMT

In article <10101@baird.cs.strath.ac.uk> pat@cs.strath.ac.uk (Pat Prosser) writes:
>The instance I refer to was Kenny lending the Peel to some enthusiastic flyer
>(we will refer to him as EF).
It's alright Pat.  You can use my name if you want.

>EF headed to one of the large Marquee tents, and was taken for a ride towards 
>those nice long iron tent pegs they use. I was expecting EF to lose
>his wedding tackle.
It must have looked rather like that from behind, but I can asure you - I'd
have let go if I was going to hit that stake at any speed.  In the event, I had
managed to get the sail round, out of the wind, about 30 degrees or so off the
ground and was moving very gently and slowly when I rested my foot on the
stake, to try (unsuccessfuly) to land it tidily.

My biggest problem (other than the excessive amount of wind :-) ) was lack
of experience with the kite.  At least twice I collapsed the canopy, letting
it fall down into the power zone, requiring 150 foot of sliding to recover.

>EF eventually landed the Peel, but at no time was
>he in control. EF was a passenger. 
Hmm.. give me some credit - I was in control for at least 10 seconds.  I
was standing still when Kenny told me that it would be a good idea to
spin myself instead of the sail to take the wrap out of the line...
before saying "Naa.. It'd be more fun to spin it..." and heading off in the
direction of that peg :-).

Andrew
Newsgroups: rec.mag
From: hank@well.sf.ca.us (Hank Roberts)
Subject: Re: What can I do with these old magazines? (send to Czechs!)
Organization: Whole Earth 'Lectronic Link
Date: Tue, 21 Jul 1992 06:13:35 GMT



Here is a magazine request, recently posted to Whole Earth Catalog readers.
Perhaps some of you have magazines you'd give these folks in Czechoslovakia:

we.170.103: Robert Horvitz (antenna)  Wed 15 Jul 92 20:08

 This evening I visited the office of a Czech magazine named
 VOKNO.  This is a really really really neat publication, sort of
 like Re:Search, or Semiotext(e), with excellent wild bold graphic
 style.  Contents is cultural.  Thumbing thru the current issue,
 there are articles on (I may be translating this first one wrong
 because of all the word-play) "chaotic democracy and menstrual art";
 the music of Skinny Puppy;  sculpture by Mike Kelley;  excerpts
 from "Last Exit to Brooklyn";  an interview with J. G, Ballard;
 an article on hippies in Poland;  Michael Fox on animal rights;
 interview with a "NY shaman" named  Michael Medicine Eagle;
 part 2 of an article on "pornographic fantasy" by Suzan Sontag;
 ...well you get the idea.

 Anyway, the editor, Blumfeld S.M., asked a favor:  they have no hard
 currency and feel out of touch with new and interesting things
 published in the US.  He asked if Whole Earth readers could mail
 him issues of mags and zines you have read, found worth reading,
 but not worth keeping - back issues of good periodicals, in
 other words.  They can't afford to subscribe, and don't even know
 what to subscribe to, so you could help on both scores.  The
 address:

 Blumfeld S.M.
 V O K N O
 Bolzanova 1
 110 00 Praha 1
 Czechoslovakia

 Hmmm, there's no phone or fax listed.  Will have to get that on
 my next visit to the office.

 So if you want to help a struggling and quite remarkable mag,
 here's a way to do it.  Thanks in advance on their behalf.

[ I've left distribution on this set to "world" -- rec.mag readers may
wish to restrict it to their own countries if quoting this long item for
other people who might send material to these folks. ]

From: ajs@hpfcso.FC.HP.COM (Alan Silverstein)
Date: Tue, 28 Jul 1992 21:25:43 GMT
Subject: Re: How do I store my tents, etc, in a very humid house?
Organization: Hewlett-Packard, Fort Collins, CO, USA
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry

> I live right on a river, and can't keep the mildew off of stuff.

How about enclosing it in airtight plastic bags when not in use?
Preferably after cooking in the sun on a hot day.  I do this for
rubber/silicone parts anyway (like my dive mask) just to extend their
lives, even here in dry Colorado.