From: tip@lead.aichem.arizona.edu (Tom Perigrin)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: Heraldic questions...
Date: 11 Jan 93 00:47:47 GMT
Organization: University of Arizona UNIX Users Group

In article <1993Jan10.0935.19260@reed.edu> odlin@reed.edu (Iain Odlin) writes:
>In article <726478788.F005@ocitor.fidonet> Tim@f4229.n124.z1.fidonet.org (Tim) writes:
>> Depends on what you mean by "longships". What is shown in the Bayeaux
>> Tapestry is not what most people (even in the SCA) think of when they
>> think of "Norse longships".  
>
> I'm certainly not an expert on the subject.  I merely posited that the Norman
> ships on the Bayeaux Tapestry looked quite "Longship"-like to me, especially
> given what the period drawings and engravings of 'actual' longships look
> like.

Unto My Lords Iain and Tadhg, doth Thomas Ignatius Perigrinus send his
humble greetings,

	My Lords, you might find the following quotes and information
of interest:

"The Bayeaux Tapestry shows men [building ships]....   They were ships of
the old Norse type, double ended with high curved stems and sternposts, 
mostly decorated with dragons heads and tails."   D. Howarth, 1066: The Year
of the Conquest, Dorset PRess, 1977


"The most famous Viking ships were, naturally, those of the raiding fleets 
that harried England and the Continent, the 'longships' and 'dragonships'.
[deletion for sake of space]... on the Bayeux Tapestry Williams fleet is
seen sailing with figureheads, but the same ships, when beached, are mostly
shown as headless."  J. Simpson, Everyday Life in the Viking Ages, Dorset
Press, 1987.


The following books use the Bayeaux Tapestry to illustrate the building of
long ships;

Ian Atkinson, The Viking Ships, Camridge University Press, 1979

Ole-Crumlin-Pedersen, (Keeper the Danish National Museum)  The Vikings
in England, Penhurst Press, 1981

Soren Vadstrup, IMME:SAERIMMER, Gokstad-Faeringen som SeniorProjekt
(A report of the building of a longship), Vikingeskibshallen i Rosklide, 1978

A. R. Lewis, Timothy J. Runyan, European Naval and Maritime History, 300-1500,
Indiana University Press, 1985

Ewert Cagner (Ed), Vikingen, BokForlaget Bra Bocker AB, Uppsala Universitet,
1973.

And finally, the passing of the longship is noted

Johannes Schilkdhauer, The Hansa - A History and Culture, Dorset Press, 1988
"Another wasthe introduction of a new type of ship, the Hansa Cog."   The
book relates how the cog was much bigger thant he longship, and more stable 
than some earlier non-longship types of ships.  The book also uses the
Bayeux Tapestry to illustrate building longships.


There is another book by Ole Crumlin-Pedersen that details the development
of the northern European shops from 500 - 1500.  However, I cannot
find my copy, and hope it isn't one of my permanently missing books.
What I remember of that book is that Dr. Crumlin-Pedersen considered
that William used longships of the Viking style.



I realize that I have not been asked my opinion, per se', but if any
were to do so, I would say that the opinion of the Scholarly community
is that William used longships.  I cannot guess what "most people (even
in the SCA)" would think.

Yours in Service
Thomas Ignatius Perigrinus