HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: sfjr@wam.umd.edu (Steve Russell)
Subject: Shy Ghosts & A Question
Organization: University of Maryland, College Park
Date: Fri, 13 Nov 1992 00:23:33 GMT

I have been intrigued by the reply's to my "shy ghost" post, especially
by the claim that ghosts are around all of the time for those with
perceptual abilities sensitive enought to see them.

Do these sensitive people, seeing these ghosts, take it as a proof
of an afterlife or of a particular religion.  Do they believe
a ghost is just like a person, except they have no body?

1.  Could it be that some trauma perserved the essence of a person
    in a ghost, only to dissipate into nothingness later?

2.  Could it be that ghosts are nonsentient phenomena like a rainbow?

Fascinating, very fascinating

Steve
From: tgtchb@tb3.chem.tue.nl (Harold C.L. Baur)
Newsgroups: alt.folklore.ghost-stories
Subject: Re: Ouiji - some thoughts...
Keywords: no keywords
Date: 5 Nov 92 10:44:35 GMT
Reply-To: tgtchb@chem.tue.nl

eesd2ag@dct.ac.uk writes:

> Firstly, Harold, have U ever rolled the dice and asked what number it is
>or were you merely suggesting ?!?!? :-)

   I actually tried it several times... but no satisfying (to me, that is)
   results came up. Furthermore, when persistently asked, the "presence"
   tended to give answers of a kind that somehow seemed typically human, 
   like "sorry, I don't have time for that now." (what should time mean to 
   a ghost?). It tells me that we are not dealing with actual precences,
   but with a "bothered subconsious" trying to get itself out of a tricky
   situation. Like we ourselves sometimes do. (hey, I do :-) (sometimes))

> Secondly, your idea of a 'common database' maybe plausable (it does appeal
>to me) but I still have second thoughts on accepting this idea. This is 
>due to what I've considered to be 'Weird/Supernatural' experiences. 
> Even still i am undecided on the topic of beleiving ghosts and the like!
> Maybe I suppose, the strengths of a persons belief; the culture the person
>is in; the way (s)he is brought up; plays a strong part in convincing the
>person that an experience is real rather than anything else.
> I know that in my culture ghosts, djins and the like are definitely beleived
>in. 
> Overall, 70% of me says Yes its true & 30% says No its not!!!!!!

   This is probably the KEY ISSUE. Since I myself have not ever experienced
   anything that requires "a supernatural presence" to be accounted for,
   I am not very eager to accept it's existence a priori. But then again, 
   I might not be able to recognise the supernatural when it kicked my butt,
   simply because I tend to look for a "logical" (note the quotes)
   explanantion first.
   Ah. I always loved Scotland for it's mystical things... really, I do.
   In fact, if I hadn't been born and raised in sceptical Holland, I'd 
   probably cherish those ghosts myself :-).

Best regards, Haribo.
Newsgroups: alt.folklore.ghost-stories
From: foxx@foxxjac.b17a.ingr.com (TheFoxx "AJ")
Subject: Re: Shy Ghosts
Reply-To: foxx@foxxjac.b17a.ingr.com
Organization: "Intergraph Corporation, Huntsville AL"
Date: Mon, 9 Nov 1992 15:52:50 GMT

In article <1992Nov7.200759.14346@wam.umd.edu>, sfjr@wam.umd.edu (Steve Russell) writes:
|> Ever notice how most ghost stories are set in big old houses, at night, and
|> when people are alone.  Who is more frightening?  A ghost or a human?
|> *chuckle*  Where are all the ghost stories taking place at 3pm in a
|> crowded flurocessntly lit office?  I think that is the best argument
|> against the existence of ghosts, not that Im making it.  I love reading
|> these stories:).   Just kibbutzing:)
|>   --Steve R

A slight counterpoint:  At 3 p.m. in a crowded fluorescently lit
office, how likely is someone to be aware of anything.  There's
a lot more sensory input taking your up the average person's
attention in such a situation than in a big old house, at night,
when people are alone and primed to notice any occurrences.  It
should also be remembered that people in groups are much better
in rationalizing/reassuring/explaining-away strange happenings.
  --AJ
From: CSMSETS@MVS.OAC.UCLA.EDU
Newsgroups: alt.folklore.ghost-stories
Subject: Re: The "Death Car" (was Re: Real Story)
Date: 10 Nov 92 23:38:03 GMT

In article <1dc6tjINN878@chnews.intel.com>,
smintz@sedona.intel.com (Stephen Mintz exp 11/92~) writes:

>
>I thought the idea here was to hear ghost stories; Albert told a Ghost
>story....we are not here to watch you have an ego trip criticing the story...you
>have ideas...tell them in sceptic or somewhere else....gees...
>Stephen 
I have to agree with Stephen on this one...or at least if you're going
to present the history of such a story maybe you can lace it with a
little less venom.
      --Ed
From: CSMSETS@MVS.OAC.UCLA.EDU
Newsgroups: alt.folklore.ghost-stories
Subject: Re: Demon rider
Date: 11 Nov 92 00:09:59 GMT

In article <1992Nov10.171606.8357@walter.bellcore.com>,
dfw@thumper..bellcore.com (Doris Woods) writes:

>In article <1992Nov8.175413.8505@iscsvax.uni.edu> mcmurtrey@iscsvax.uni.edu writes:
>>        If you guys like these, I've got other tales, like the tale of the
>>unknown soldger, ghost lights, the delemma of the hunters etc.
>>
>>
>>                                        Diana McMurtrey
>>                                        Accounting Dept.
>>                                        University of Northern Iowa
>>
>
>  Yes please do tell!!!!
>
>   Doris
>
   Yes, I second this. This is the type of stuff we've been waiting
for.
      --Ed
From: aodn307@bongo.cc.utexas.edu (Joshua Henry Geurink)
Newsgroups: alt.folklore.ghost-stories
Subject: Re: The Viper!
Date: 9 Nov 92 18:47:27 GMT
Organization: The University of Texas at Austin, Austin TX

In article <1992Nov7.121315.1@gacvx1.gac.edu> mew@gacvx1.gac.edu writes:

>You mean you've seen that episode too!?!!  Oh joy!  If you really want to hear
>another one I suggest you check out the book "Scary Stories" from your local
>library.... it's a real hoot!   By the way, the story was never in GI joe... I
>should know.... I used to watch it every morning.  Now you know too and knowing
>is half the battle! :)

Oooooooohhhhhh yes it was!  As a FORMER big fan of GI Joe, I will personally
guarantee that this Viper fellow caused endless trouble for Cobra by just
HAPPENING to clean every building Cobra used.  It's true.  This WAS from 
a GI Joe episode.  Any information, real or imaginary, to the contrary
is WRONG.


=--=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
King Rat                     |  "You got the power, (Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha!)
aka Josh Geurink             |   You got the might, (No Way!)
aodn307@bongo.cc.utexas.edu  |   Get ready for battle, (Give me your money!)
                  Defeat the Black Knight!"
`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`
From: st923012@pip.cc.brandeis.edu (JENN)
Newsgroups: alt.folklore.ghost-stories
Subject: carmina burana
Date: 5 Nov 92 23:30:56 GMT
Reply-To: st923012@pip.cc.brandeis.edu
Organization: Brandeis University

Carmina Burana was also used in the movie Hamlet, which was out recently;
and occasionally in many television commercials.
From: kyle@Csli.Stanford.EDU (Kyle Wohlmut)
Subject: Re: The Death Car and the Real Story
Followup-To: alt.folklore.ghost-stories
Organization: Stanford University CSLI
Date: Wed, 11 Nov 1992 21:39:13 GMT

In article <1992Nov10.145329.20133@news.acns.nwu.edu>
lls@casbah.acns.nwu.edu (Lori "Lorelei" Smallwood) writes:
>In article <96583@netnews.upenn.edu> kbanner@ccat.sas.upenn.edu (Kenneth "Bruce" Banner) writes:

>>P.S.  O.K.  I can't resist this...Has anyone out there
>>ever personally had the kind of experience Hufford
>>describes?
>
>
>I think it has happened to me -- I would wake up, know I was awake, yet
>barely be able to open my eyes.  I wouldn't be able to move at all.  It's a
>very disconcerting feeling.  I always attributed it to not being fully
>awake -- like my brain hasn't re-connected itself to my muscles or
>something.  Is this supposed to be something supernatural?
>
>-- Lori

Has happened to me, too, a couple of times.  I never would have
associated it with anything supernatural.  It's a scary feeling, yes,
but it's never been accompanied by a 'presence' or anything like that.
More a medical thing... I think it's coincided with extremely low
blood sugar levels and/or chronic depression...

Not to put a damper on anybody's story or anything...

/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/
                       /               
/'''   Kyle Wohlmut    -  'Heute back ich, morgen brau ich, und       
c-OO                   /   uebermorgen hol ich mir der Koenigin ihr      
   \   Rocking Pig     -   Kind.  Ach, wie gut dass niemand weiss,
  -     Enterprises    /   dass ich kyle@csli.stanford.EDU heiss.'    
                       -                                              
-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-
Newsgroups: alt.folklore.ghost-stories
From: helen@wufpack.NoSubdomain.NoDomain (Helen S. Connor)
Subject: Re: The Death Car and the Real Story
Reply-To: helen@wufpack.b30.ingr.com
Organization: Intergraph Corp. Huntsville, AL
Distribution: alt.folklore.ghost-stories
Date: Thu, 12 Nov 1992 18:27:58 GMT


|> 
|> >P.S.  O.K.  I can't resist this...Has anyone out there
|> >ever personally had the kind of experience Hufford
|> >describes?
|> 
|> 
|> I think it has happened to me -- I would wake up, know I was awake, yet
|> barely be able to open my eyes.  I wouldn't be able to move at all.  It's a
|> very disconcerting feeling.  I always attributed it to not being fully
|> awake -- like my brain hasn't re-connected itself to my muscles or
|> something.  Is this supposed to be something supernatural?
|> 

There has been some discussion of this phenonmenon in alt.dreams.  The
general consensus is that it has something to do with the way your
brain turns off some muscle function during certain phases of sleep.
This is what keeps you from moving when you are dreaming about moving.
If you wake up during one of these phases, it takes some time before
your brain wakes up enough to allow full movement.  This would not
explain why you can't breathe, though.  You might want to check out
alt.dreams for more information.

I'll admit, the supernatural explanation is more fun. 

-H-
From: mdouglas@cad067.NoSubdomain.NoDomain (Maria Douglas )
Newsgroups: alt.folklore.ghost-stories
Subject: Re: A Hufford experience.
Keywords: Old Hag
Date: 12 Nov 92 20:58:18 GMT
Organization: Intel Corp.


-- 
I have had that exact same experience many times.  I used to experience
it much more often as a teenager than now.  In fact, I had forgotten
about it until just a month ago when I was visiting in-laws.  It was
a very lazy day and I fell asleep sitting up on the couch.  I thought
that I woke up, but my body was frozen solid and I couldn't see but
through the slits of my eyelids.  I *thought* I was conscious of everyone
around me because I could see my husband sitting in the Lazy Boy chair
next to the couch and my father-in-law standing by the fireplace.  I
tried to wiggle my feet, and when I couldn't I tried to scream but
found that breathing was becoming more and more difficult.  It was
VERY frightening.  I kept talking to myself mentally, saying "It's
going to be O.K.  Don't panic.  Calm down.  Maybe someone will wake
me up..." which is when I realized I was still asleep!

Eventually I did wake up.  I told everyone what happened and my mother-
in-law said that she has had that exact same experience many times
before, napping in that same spot on the couch.  She gave me a very
plausible medical explanation for it, but I don't recall what it was.
I had heard it before, too.  But *I* believe it's akin to lucid dreaming
in that you are asleep, but you are aware that you are asleep, and
nothing more.  Perhaps something physiological happens to trigger
that awareness.
--
Maria E. Douglas	(408) 765-4728		    
Intel Corporation	mdouglas@cadev6.intel.com  

No quote.  Not today.  I've said enough already.

I don't speak for Intel, either.
Newsgroups: alt.folklore.ghost-stories
From: timwi@microsoft.com (Tim Williams)
Subject: Re: The Death Car and the Real Story
Date: 11 Nov 92 18:03:50 GMT
Organization: Microsoft Corporation
Distribution: alt.folklore.ghost-stories


Regarding the feeling of being awake but unable to move, I frequently
have this feeling.  Generally, I 'wake' up and have the impression that
either something is in the room with me, or something VERY scary is just
'outside' the room in some sense, and that it is approaching quickly.
I am unable to breathe normally ( very restricted air flow ), unable
to move, and unable to speak.  I try very hard to speak, and my wife
tells me that I sort of croak at this point.  Eventually, I manage to
break free, normally by speaking.  My wife tells me that at least on one
occasion that this has happened, I croaked out an intelligeble sentence
saying '..careful, XXXXX is coming..' where XXXX was some name.

Anyway, I always figured that this was just some sort of dream that flows
together with waking in an unusual way.  Sure is scary to have it happen,
though.  Oh yeah, this happens about twice a year, and has happened since
I was about 16 (9 years).

Newsgroups: alt.folklore.ghost-stories
From: thomas@ramsey.cs.laurentian.ca (Thomas Fung)
Subject: Re: a KCR commercial
Organization: Dept. of Computer Science, Laurentian University, Sudbury, ON
Date: Thu, 12 Nov 1992 23:54:55 GMT

In <DEMILLO.92Nov12133922@ceres.juliet.ll.mit.edu> demillo@juliet.ll.mit.edu ( Robert DeMillo ) writes:


>> I don't know if it is real or not but it's been the most popular 
>> topic among people in Hong Kong. And here is what happened :

>Now that's pretty interesting! Where did you hear this story, if
>I may ask?

it's a topic in the newsgroup: soc.culture.hongkong
Newsgroups: alt.folklore.ghost-stories
From: moroney@ramblr.enet.dec.com
Subject: Re: WANTED: Spooky Music Recomendations
Organization: Digital Equipment Corporation
Date: Fri, 6 Nov 1992 23:01:54 GMT

I didn't see the original request, but some real eerie music (though not ghost-
type eerie) is the funeral music (and the drums!) played at the funeral
of JFK.

-Mike
From: st890270@pip.cc.brandeis.edu (LUCIFER)
Newsgroups: alt.folklore.ghost-stories
Subject: Re: Shy Ghosts
Date: 11 Nov 92 01:29:52 GMT
Reply-To: st890270@pip.cc.brandeis.edu
Organization: Brandeis University

Talking of being aware - it is a documented fact that people various
capacities vary over a period of 24-25 hours. 
Early eavening (7-10) is (for most people) when their senses are at their
peak.

In another words, you notice little creaks and shadows a lot more.
Newsgroups: alt.folklore.ghost-stories
From: lls@casbah.acns.nwu.edu (Lori Smallwood)
Subject: Re: The Death Car and the Real Story
Organization: Northwestern University, Evanston Illinois.
Distribution: alt.folklore.ghost-stories
Date: Tue, 10 Nov 1992 14:53:29 GMT

In article <96583@netnews.upenn.edu> kbanner@ccat.sas.upenn.edu (Kenneth J. Banner) writes:

>       2)  Even if one can trace a cultural origin for "all"
>of the stories does that mean that none of the stories have a
>basis in experience?  In Folklorist David Hufford's book, _The
>Terror that Comes in the Night:  An Experience-Centered Study
>of Supernatural Assault Traditions_  (Univ. of Penn Press,
>1982) he examines a Newfoundland tradition called the "Old
>Hag".  The typical pattern of the story is that a person wakes
>up, has the perception of being clearly awake, but then feels
>as if she or he cannot move.  In addition, there is a feeling
>as if something is pressing down upon them.  The encounter
>usually ends when the person is eventually able to move some
>part of the body or call out.  There are a large variety of
>elments that accompany this experience from being "ridden by
>a Witch" to mysterious personages in the room, out of body
>experiences, etc.  As a part of Newfoundland's folklore
>tradition such stories have been repeated over and over. 

>P.S.  O.K.  I can't resist this...Has anyone out there
>ever personally had the kind of experience Hufford
>describes?


I think it has happened to me -- I would wake up, know I was awake, yet
barely be able to open my eyes.  I wouldn't be able to move at all.  It's a
very disconcerting feeling.  I always attributed it to not being fully
awake -- like my brain hasn't re-connected itself to my muscles or
something.  Is this supposed to be something supernatural?

-- Lori
Newsgroups: alt.folklore.ghost-stories
From: phatch@solstice.slc.mentorg.com (Phill Hatch (CONTRACTOR Documentation))
Subject: Re: "Death Car" (and Other Real Stories)
Organization: Mentor Graphics Corp.,  Murray, Utah
Date: Thu, 5 Nov 1992 17:57:47 GMT

In re. The Hook Hand Story

Gary Larson recently drew a Far Side cartoon from the other 
perspective with the couple driving off with the hook in 
the door and the hook(less) man calling out, "Hey wait!
My hook! My Hook!"

Loved it.

Phil
Newsgroups: alt.folklore.ghost-stories
From: judim@wes.on.ca (Judi Mota)
Subject: Re: "Death Car" (and Other Real Stories)
Organization: Waterloo Engineering Software
Date: Thu, 05 Nov 1992 14:08:15 GMT

In article <DEMILLO.92Nov4154110@egeus.juliet.ll.mit.edu> demillo@juliet.ll.mit.edu ( Robert DeMillo ) writes:

(lots of stuff deleted about the Death Car story)
>
>
>Whether this occurance really occurred, or if it's another variation
>of the same story, I dunno....but that's how far back the tale goes.
>
Sounds something like the "deranged pysco with the hook instead of an arm" 
story!  

I heard a really good tale about that one (the setting was supposedly Southern
Ontario according to the person who told me) and since I was quite young at
the time, I was scared to death.  Then when I got older I heard all kinds of
versions of the same story and got to the point where I laughed it off.  And
then, of course, it was written up on this newsgroup and I laughed again.  I
guess everyone has a *friend* who has a good ghost story!!

Sorry!  Just my 2 cents worth!
Judi
From: tgtchb@tb3.chem.tue.nl (Harold C.L. Baur)
Newsgroups: alt.folklore.ghost-stories
Subject: Re: Carmina Burana
Date: 6 Nov 92 09:55:02 GMT
Reply-To: tgtchb@chem.tue.nl

t00022@TIGGER.STCLOUD.MSUS.EDU writes:

>However, I'm reminded of an old Saturday Night Live skit (with John Belushi and
>Dan Aykroyd) which made fun of the _Omen_ movies.  I _think_ the background
>music for that skit was Carmina Burana.  'Course, I could be wrong....

Ah. I almost got the impression that Carmina Burana is merely used in Horror
films... because of the Gothic touch to it. But, as I remember it was used
in "King Arthur" (one of them) as well, to go with the battle scenes.
Actually Carmina Burana is a compilation of Student's songs... about sex and
booze and all the things that make life great. Who'd imagined... not me :-)

Virtually,
            Haribo.
From: tgtchb@tb1.chem.tue.nl (Harold C.L. Baur)
Newsgroups: alt.folklore.ghost-stories
Subject: Re: The "Death Car" (was Re: Real Story)
Date: 7 Nov 92 13:39:00 GMT
Reply-To: tgtchb@chem.tue.nl

smintz@sedona.intel.com (Stephen Mintz exp 11/92~) writes:


>I thought the idea here was to hear ghost stories; Albert told a Ghost
>story....we are not here to watch you have an ego trip criticing the story...you
>have ideas...tell them in sceptic or somewhere else....gees...
>Stephen

   Talking about old stories that we all know... is there an official
   version of the good ol' MONKEYS PAW ? Or was that one never put to
   paper? Does anyone out here have it? Or willingly to tell it?
From: mcmurtrey@iscsvax.uni.edu
Newsgroups: alt.folklore.ghost-stories
Subject: Re: Demon rider - thanks
Date: 10 Nov 92 13:59:36 -0600
Organization: University of Northern Iowa

In article <1992Nov10.171606.8357@walter.bellcore.com>, dfw@thumper..bellcore.com (Doris Woods) writes:
> In article <1992Nov8.175413.8505@iscsvax.uni.edu> mcmurtrey@iscsvax.uni.edu writes:
>>        If you guys like these, I've got other tales, like the tale of the
>>unknown soldger, ghost lights, the delemma of the hunters etc.
>> 
>   Yes please do tell!!!! 
> 
>    Doris
> 

        Thanks for all the great mail people!  I've been a little busy with
classes but I'll try to post the other stories as soon as possible.  It would
be easier if my memory wasn't so shot.  

                                                Diana McMurtrey


>
From: demillo@juliet.ll.mit.edu ( Robert DeMillo )
Newsgroups: alt.folklore.ghost-stories
Subject: Re: a KCR commercial
Date: 12 Nov 92 18:39:22 GMT
Organization: M.I.T. Lincoln Lab - Group 43


> I don't know if it is real or not but it's been the most popular 
> topic among people in Hong Kong. And here is what happened :

Now that's pretty interesting! Where did you hear this story, if
I may ask?

Thanks

- Rob
 
--


 - Rob DeMillo			| Internet: 	  demillo@juliet.ll.mit.edu
   MIT Lincoln Lab 		| America Online: exgalileo@aol.com
   Weather Sensing - Group 43	| Reality:        617-981-2105 (office)

"Operation Goofy now in effect!"
	--- Tom Servo, "Gamera vs. Gaos," Mystery Science Theater 3000
From: demillo@juliet.ll.mit.edu ( Robert DeMillo )
Newsgroups: alt.folklore.ghost-stories
Subject: "Night Hag" or "Morning Paralysis" Explanation (was Re: The Death Car and the Real Story)
Date: 12 Nov 92 18:24:58 GMT
	<1992Nov10.144054.19240@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu>
	<19129@ucdavis.ucdavis.edu>
Distribution: alt.folklore.ghost-stories
Organization: M.I.T. Lincoln Lab - Group 43

In article <19129@ucdavis.ucdavis.edu> itlm013@fella.ucdavis.edu (Captain Caveman) writes:


Dennis beat me too it. (And he did a dang fine job of it as well...) This is
the "official" medical explanation for the effect. 

One additional note, the "motor activity" that Dennis referes to is
not autonomic motor activity, just reactive...so you keep breathing
and your heart keeps beating. However, there are reported cases of
chect constriction which is possibly related to the body reacting to
lack of motor control. This may be an explanation for the feeling
of "an invisible someone sitting on your chest" that is often
reported in the paranormal literature.

Note to Mary: I tried to respond but my gateway couldn't find you. I'm 
sorry about that.

> I remember reading about the "Night Hag" story in a pscyhological/dream
> journal a while ago (months? years? I can't recall).

> The person who experiences this is awakened from REM sleep, but the
> brain, for some reason, isn't capable of making the jump.  For the
> few seconds transition that is necessary, "sleep paralysis," a normal
> condition that disconnects motor activity from brain signals (to keep
> one from physically acting as if your dreams are real), persists.

> The individual feels awake, yet cannot move.  This lack of ability to
> move is rationalized, and suddenly a "presence" is felt on the chest
> which keeps him or her from moving.

> Within a few seconds, the brain and body are fully awake, and complete
> control is returned.  I've never had it happen to me, personally, but
> I have a couple friends who have, and they described it as very
> nervewracking.

> Dennis
> dfcleary@ucdavis.edu
--


 - Rob DeMillo			| Internet: 	  demillo@juliet.ll.mit.edu
   MIT Lincoln Lab 		| America Online: exgalileo@aol.com
   Weather Sensing - Group 43	| Reality:        617-981-2105 (office)

"Operation Goofy now in effect!"
	--- Tom Servo, "Gamera vs. Gaos," Mystery Science Theater 3000
Newsgroups: alt.folklore.ghost-stories