From: katefans@chinet.chi.il.us (Chris'n'Vickie of Chicago)
Subject: Angry flames, sorry (was Re: Enya nude??
Organization: Chinet - Public Access UNIX
Date: Thu, 27 Aug 1992 06:46:32 GMT


FLAMES AHEAD....hit "n" now if you don't want to see 'em.
(I don't use profanity as much as you might expect after reading the
following. Sometimes it just feels good, though it's a horribly
inarticulate way to express yourself, I realize.)


In article <AeadKKm00UhWI53hol@andrew.cmu.edu> "Peter A. Simon" <ps3p+@andrew.cmu.edu> writes:
>katefans@chinet.chi.il.us (Chris'n'Vickie of Chicago) write:
>
>>It would seem from your posts that you think only males like Enya
>>and then only because of the way she looks. I realize you wouldn't
>>understand the concept of "good music" but it is what we all listen
>>to Enya for. I think she's pretty too. So what? Fans may slobber
>>all over her, and part of it may be because she's pretty, but I
>>doubt they'd stay with her very long if they thought the music sucked.
>> 
>>If you don't like it, that's fine. Not everybody likes everything
>>and she's certainly not for everybody. I just wonder why you get
>>your mental masterbation from posting such sexist crap. The
>>possibilities are endless, the imagination soars...
>> 
>>Also, I know that there were other people involved in starting this
>>thread. The above goes for them too. What I don't understand are the
>>people who seemed to take these posts seriously. It's hard to believe
>>that anyone could be that gullible. Ah, but then, I live in Reagan/Bush
>>country, so I shouldn't be suprised.

>There is absolutely nothing in what Pete writes that indicates that he
>*only* likes the way she looks or that he doesn't understand good music.
> You're indulging in typical female illogic drawing those conclusions
>from his posts.

"Typical female illogic" is like me saying "typical male sexism" which
I never did. I charged sexism to the person who started the thread and
those who immediately supported it. I hit "n" before noting the name of
of the poster, and just followed up one of the "gullible" posts.
If Pete is the guy who started it, and not the guy who took him seriously,
then I would say that Pete is not a fan at all, but rather a jerk who
wanted to cause trouble, so his "*only* liking the way she looks or that
he doesn't understand good music" is not applicable. I would say that
he doesn't care one way or the other how she looks (though if Enya were
plain, he would have oriented his post to note that fact. Conjecture, but
since all he wanted to do was enrage Enya fans, he would have thought of
something to do it) and if he "understood good music" he would have 
realized why Enya fans like her and wouldn't have posted at all.


>The only sexism I've seen is from you.  Why couldn't women be interested
>in/get turned on by Enya's breasts as well as men?  Your assumption that
>this is a "male only" thing sounds like pure Bushism.

You make no sense at all here. Impatient with such drivel, I e-mailed you
a one-word answer: "asshole." Very inarticulate, I realize. Because you
posted this as well as e-mailing it, I'm going to post my second answer
to you.

======================================================================

Look, you're defending a bullshit, sexist, flame-biting post that
was only meant to enrage Enya fans. You call *me* a sexist because
I objected to it? You're an asshole, that's what I think and that's    
what I said.

Since you want me to elaborate, I will. Female artists are usually
seen as bimbo sex kittens, heavy metal bitch goddesses, bull dykes
or some other convenient label that automatically gives a mental
image of the person. What about the *music*? There are hundreds,
thousands, of female musicians who fit none of the labels and
make great music. I'm very tired of talented female artists not
being taken seriously. It also pisses me off when fans of really
good artists are treated as if they only like the women because
of their physical looks, and not because of the talent involved.

You accuse me and other Enya fans of not having a sense of humor
about the original post and the immediate followups. Why should
we think a flame biting post is funny? Enyas boobs and porno
films? That's funny? If it is to you, then you have the sense of
humor of a 10 year old and you should grow up and get some
self-respect, as I said in my original post. Read it again and
get a clue, because you obviously don't have one.

(I feel I've just insulted a bunch of mature 10-year olds)

I just don't understand why you people think it's so cool to
jump into a newsgroup dedicated to someone you have no interest  
in and insult both the artist and their fans. Do you people
go into *every* newsgroup you're not interested in and insult
the subject and readers? How many thousands of newsgroups are
there? Don't you people have a life? Better things to do?
Other interests? Any respect? Why pick on Enya? Because she's
a woman? Because she's a pretty woman? Because she has fans
who like her a lot? What's the point? Why is it so important
to insult other people and their interests? Does it make your
penis grow a little every time you do? (Or defend people who do?)

It sure makes your brain grow smaller.

Oh, and btw, I don't consider myself a feminist. I just take issue
with people who get their kicks by posting bullshit meant to make
other people angry. I also thought it was sexist. To you, that makes
me a raving, wild-eyed, castration-happy feminist. F**k you and your
cluelessness.

Also, before you jump on a "the breasts and porno reference must mean
she's a prude" or some such bullshit, I'll tell you that I used to
work in an X-rated theater. I actually worked in the offices, but
part of the job entailed playing the music and working the spotlight
for live strippers between shows. It was one of the most fun jobs I
ever had. I got to meet and talk to dozens of strippers and most of
them were really interesting people. Some of them were even good
dancers. (Most of them had really crappy taste in music, but oh well...)
Another part of my job was to order films for the theater and videos
for 3 videos rental stores the smae company ran. For a year I also
worked at one of the video stores and watched many of the X-rated
films so I could recommend them to women who'd come in and ask me
which ones I thought they should rent. Added together, I've probably
seen more porno films than you or your silly friends put together.
Hell, not "probably" but rather, for sure. I have nothing at all
against adult movies.

=========================================================================

I'll add on that this whole thing makes me very angry. To call people
who objected to the thread's beginnings "sexist" and "humorless" *only*
shows an immaturity and insensitivity that is pathetic. Grow up.

Vickie

Newsgroups: alt.music.enya