HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: yewang@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (Yenwen Wang)
Subject: Re: Who Cares 150 F-16s.
Organization: The Ohio State University
Date: Tue, 15 Sep 1992 01:08:51 GMT

In article <1992Sep13.220452.3215@tamsun.tamu.edu> x0y3510@tamuts.tamu.edu (Xuejun Yang) writes:
>
>There was an evaluation a while ago by the Taiwanese premier calling
>people in Taiwan only small rich(Xiao Fu) but a poor big society.

That's Chinese culture of being 'modest'(Chien1 Hsu1) :-)
 
>40 % of Taiwan's GNP depends on trade versus only 20 % of Japan vs
>1% of mainland China. 

Which is what makes Taiwan's success so much more remarkable.
Which is why people there treasure their wealth so much, it's hard-
earned.

Moreover, without trade China will never get modernized(as CCP has
tried from 50s to 70s to 'walk our own way', it was a failure).
No shame to be dependent on trade. Trade means people from all over the
world like our products.

-- 
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
  Yenwen Wang                        wangy@kaa.eng.ohio-state.edu
  The Ohio State University          yewang@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
Newsgroups: soc.culture.china,soc.culture.taiwan,soc.culture.hongkong
From: claudius@leland.Stanford.EDU (Nelson Lu)
Subject: Re: Territory of Ancient China : Tang Dynasty
Organization: DSG, Stanford University, CA 94305, USA
Date: Tue, 8 Sep 92 02:10:17 GMT

In article <9225200.21408@mulga.cs.mu.OZ.AU> dht@cs.mu.OZ.AU (Joyous Dave baby) writes:
>**Period:
>
>618 A.D. -> 907 A.D.
>
>**Dynasty:
>
>Tang Dynasty (everyone's favourity Dynasty, of course!!!  :-)  )

Not mine. 1/2 :-)  For starters, it was a very immoral dynasty.  A dynasty
that has an emperor (Li Long Ji) who took his daughter-in-law (Yang Yu Huan)
away from his son is definitely not going to be my favorite dynasty.
>Areas of Afghanistan and central Asia are lost.
>Mongolia revived and Tang lost Outter Mongolia.
>Southern Korea is also lost.  But Tang took over
>Manchuria.

More like, "the southern tip of Manchuria," or current-day Liao Ning.

>820 A.D.
>Tibet has taken over XingJiang and GanSu.  And bordered
>with Mongolia.

Closer in stock to Turks than to Mongolians.

After reading some of your posts, I have a feeling that your sources might have
been influenced by a will to glorify China's past, so they usually exaggerated
its borders and influences.
From: fang@athena.cs.uga.edu
Newsgroups: soc.culture.china
Subject: re: Email Harasament
Date: 15 Sep 92 13:58:04 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: University of Georgia, Athens

Just a test, please ignore.

(1) I think everyone has the right to contact the author in the newsgroup.
(2) If you do not want 'harassment', either don't post or state in your
post that you do not want any personal disscussion.
(3) Since the scc is so crowded already, I personaly perfer some disscussion
is taken by e-mail instead of posting.
(4) I think Ze only sent one mail more than you sent him, if you don't
answer at all, how could he sent you mail continuously?
(5) It is worse to post other's mail than 'harassment', it's a shame of
you. 



Why do you feel so uneasy about 'policeman', did you have any terrible
experience? If you do something wrong, everyone(not neccessary policeman)
can blame you. The five comments I sent you are not of no ground. 
If you consider these are harassment and irresponsibly guess I am
Yang' friend and accuse me of being a pliceman or judge, I wonder what
a decent man you are. 
I feel no shame of being a pliceman to throw degraded guys out of the network
if I could.

Fang
From: zhuh@athena.mit.edu (Hui Zhu)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.china
Subject: Re: To those pro Shen Tong guys
Date: 8 Sep 92 02:23:54 GMT
Organization: Massachusetts Institute of Technology

In article <92251.174538YXZ100@psuvm.psu.edu>, <YXZ100@psuvm.psu.edu> writes:
|> ========================================================================= In
|> the article <1992Sep7.193609.27898@athena.mit.edu>, the writer says:
|> "Courage?  what courage is that?  Backed up by Uncle Sam to show down in
|> Beijingneed NO courage.  He know he is OK anyway.  If he were really
|> couragous:
|> 
|> 1.staying Beijing after 6.4 or 2.  go back to China without any foreign
|> power interference." Date: 7 September 1992, 17:00:13 EDT From: YXZ100 at
|> 
|> 
|> PSUVM To: zhuh at athena.mit.edu Subject: Re: To those pro-Shen Tong guys
|> 
|> Where were you after 6.4, Sir?  Do you mean that you even had more courage
|> to go back at that time or that only return to China three years ago rather
|> than now is a courageous behavior?  Please don't try to criticize others by
|> the standard which you don't even live with.  Try to understand others based
|> on what you know about youself and real people.  At least this is one thing
|> that you should have learnt in U.S..


zhuh@athena.mit.edu to YXZ100:

Sir, You know me when I was in TAM?  Did I made any irresponsible
claim on TAM?  I don't think so.

Here is sth you should learn in US first:

1. If you want to play, you get to pay.
2. If you cannot pay full, pay at least the minimum.
3. If you cannot pay the minimum, do NOT play.

Understand?   Are you on TAM during that time? If NOT, shut up. Sir.
Newsgroups: soc.culture.china
From: roten@CUBA.gsfc.nasa.gov (Charles Roten)
Subject: Re: another test
Organization: /cuba_b/dirbe/roten/.organization
X-Newsreader: GNU Emacs 18.57.1, GNUS 3.13, NNTP 3.10
Date: Wed, 9 Sep 1992 20:00:02 GMT

Check this header out !!!  This fellow left *very* few clues to backtrack 
him by.  

If you are going to post anonymously, do it right !  This guy sure knows 
how !  

In article <003.6.4@TianAnMen.Beijing.China> 
6.4@TianAnMen.Beijing.China writes:

>Newsgroups: soc.culture.china
>Path: nsisrv!ukma!wupost!cs.utexas.edu!torn!newshost.uwo.ca!6.4!TianAnMen!Beijing!China
>From: 6.4@TianAnMen.Beijing.China
>Organization: 6.4@Beijing.TianAnMen.China
>Date: Mon, 7 Sep 1992 02:25:03 GMT
>Originator: 6.4@TianAnMen.Beijing.China
>Sender: 6.4@TianAnMen.Beijing.China
>Nntp-Posting-Host: 6.4@Beijing.TianAnMen.China
>Lines: 2
>
>test, sorry to bother you again.
>
>

Geez, he's sanitized _everything_ !  

Applause.  

--
Charles Roten | Hughes-STX, Incorporated | 
  roten@cuba.gsfc.nasa.gov               | 'Use the Source, Luke!'
  7601 Ora-Glen Dr., Greenbelt, MD 20706 | 
  301-513-7805 (w),  301-317-0872 (h)    |            Obi-Wan Stallman
Newsgroups: soc.culture.china
From: leung@DSG.Tandem.COM (Steven Leung)
Subject: Re: The AutuMid-Autumn Festival
Organization: Tandem Computers
Date: Sat, 12 Sep 1992 17:57:08 GMT

jamesou@liverbug.hsc.usc.edu (James Ou) writes:
|> lix@xanadu.bu.edu (Xiaowen Li) wrote:
|> 
|> >Unfotunately, Ms. Chang-O's life is miserable on the Moon.

|> Yes, Chang-O's life is miserable. She has to live in the wide
|> and cold palace (Guang3 Han2 Gong1) by herself. Even Tang poets
|> pitied her. They said:
|> 
|>      Chang-O Ying1 Hui3 Tou1 Ling2 Yao4,
|>      Bi4 Hai3 Qing1 Tian1 Ye4 Ye4 Xin1.
|>      (Chang-O must be feeling sorry about stealing the immortal
|>       drug. She is lonely and has only the blue ocean and sky to
|>       accompany her.)

Well, I think you two old folks are just spreading old misconceptions :)
Of course, the old old misconception is that Lady Chang is happy forever
ever since she has been on the moon. But I think both views are extremes
and the reality is probably falling somewhere in between. First, Lady
Chang is not lonely. Alright, Lady Chang and Wu may not know each other
originally, (and forget who gets there first), but after so many years
they are still unrelated? I don't believe it! Besides, Lady Chang at least
has escaped from the possible domestic violence considering Hou Yi's 
behavior. ... But on the other hand, facing the same person for several
scores of years is already pretty scary as well as trying, let alone
thousands of years. So, taking all these into account, I think Lady Chang
is probably like most of us: sometimes happy and sometimes miserable, but
most of the time neither happy nor miserable.

PS. Poets feel miserable more times than non-poets. And when the great
poet Li felt miserable, he apparently tried to make somebody look more
miserable than he so as to make his misery bearable. I guess we all do
that although we don't necessarily make poem. And that is why we all
like his poem.


Steven
------
328. Seek opportunity, not security. ...
        - Life's Little Instruction Book by H. J. Brown, Jr.
From: yangze@acf3.NYU.EDU (Ze Yang, , , )
Subject: Re: 150 F-16 to Taiwan
Organization: New York University
Date: Sat, 5 Sep 1992 06:57:00 GMT

cyc@z.eecs.umich.edu (Yi-Chieh Chang) writes:

>I think in your mind the students died at 6.4 1989 are also rebels.

Do you think so? For those student, one thing is for sure, they
want to something higher than fried chicken legs.

>Actually, American are also rebels from England. In fact, if one can trace

America is different. 
1) Before its independence, this land was only a conlony 
of the Great Britan, people lived here paid taxes to the English 
government but could not enjoy the right of British citizens.
2) A lot of people were from countries other than England. 
3) A lot of people came here because of religious conflicts in
their old land.(I guess that's why Lincoln said "...A new nation,
conceived in liberty...).
4) The now USA is far away from England, it's also larger than 
England.
We can see that USA was born to be different. People came here
with different ideals, and the undeveloped continent gave
them a good place to form a kind of new culture.

TIers are different, what's their excuse, "if every taiwanese has 
one chicken leg, every mainlander has half a chidkend legs, if you 
make an average, taiwanese can eventually enjoy a little more than 
half a chicken legs".  "wait a second, we won't share your chickec legs!", 
the mainlanders said, they answered "you still have the potential to exploit 
my chicken legs". 
Then, they begun to study Japanese and English, when you walk on 
streets in Taibei you can hear English words such as "talk", "case", etc.

>back to human history, one will find out that most of time the rebels 
>will propsper in the long run, because the rebles will try some things 
>new, and usually new thing means better.

Propsper in long run? forget it, if it's not because of the cold 
war, nobody here will even know there is a island called Taiwan.
USA feeded up Taiwan, let Taiwan sold a lot umbralla in the USA,
that is all. GMD also took alot of property to Taiwan. 
Taiwan is only a lucky dog enjoy the remains of the western powers 
in the latest 40+ years.
The issue before TIers is which master they should choose, USA or Japan?
instead of defending Taiwan by themselves, are you going to believe TIers
can defend Taiwan? Forget it. 

>Yi-Chieh

Ze Yang

Newsgroups: soc.culture.china
From: ping@bnlux1.bnl.gov (Shiping Zhang)
Subject: Re: period   (about "democracy")
Organization: Brookhaven National Laboratory, Upton, NY 11973
Date: Wed, 9 Sep 1992 13:12:37 GMT

In article <2AA803C0.13003@news.service.uci.edu> yeh@netix.com (Mr Shannon Yeh) writes:
>
>Today,
>
>	          \					    -------
>	       --------					    |-----|
>  CCP is        --|--		the Chinese people are 	    |--|--
>	       ____|_____ , 				    |/  \|   
>
>
>
>If those d-fighters turn into power,
>
>			\	      / __|___			-------
>they will become    ----------       /|  /  \	 will become    |-----|
> 		      ---|---         | /|=|=|\			|--|--
>		    _____|______  ,   |  |-|-|			|  |
>				      |    |___\		|/  \|  .

 	                                                      \
 	                                                   --------	
  Very clearly, it tells us that SY considers himself the    --|-- 
 	                                                   ____|_____ ,
 
                               -------
                               |-----|
  and he is afraid to become   |--|--
                               |  |
                               |/  \|  .

  Very consistent with his action.

-ping

Newsgroups: soc.culture.china
From: ping@bnlux1.bnl.gov (Shiping Zhang)
Subject: Re:      Shen Tong's Showdown
Organization: Brookhaven National Laboratory, Upton, NY 11973
Date: Sat, 5 Sep 1992 01:07:10 GMT

In article <2SEP199217213172@phobos.ucc.umass.edu> s9874194@phobos.ucc.umass.edu (s9874194) writes:
>
>Deng Xiaoping once reportedly said that Bush's being a president would
>benifit China more than Democrats. China need to do something for his
>re-election. If this is true, then, Shen would be released very soon.
>Also, Bush at this moment decide to sale F-16 to Taiwan. Beijing is 
>going to protest. But listen to the tone. I doubt that it will be as
>loudly as Beijing did to Paris. Again, Bush will get another help hand
>from his old friend in Beijing.

  Sounds like Shen is a golden card GRABBED by CCP government which then
  can paly it on behalf of Bush to help his campaign.  Nice timing!

>After all the politics in Washington will not depend on the politics 
>of Beijing or IFCSS. Economy is a much bigger concern. Is American
>ready to have a governor of a second class to run this "first class"
>country? Reamain to be checked!
>
>c.q.

  Seems you are also off to help Bush.  :-)  Probably Bush's campaign
  ads should borrow some lines from your post.

-ping
Newsgroups: soc.culture.china
From: liuyh@vis.toronto.edu (Yuanhui Liu)
Subject: Re: F-16's fear?
Organization: Department of Computer Science, University of Toronto
Date: 8 Sep 92 18:55:40 GMT

In article <1992Sep7.211616.8806@zip.eecs.umich.edu> cyc@z.eecs.umich.edu (Yi-Chieh Chang) writes:
>>
>>>Taiwan was returned to ROC not CCP then. I don't think CCP can claim back
>>>the territory lost to USSR in Ching dynasty just because it represents
>>
>>PRC is the legal sucessor of ROC. As regards other lost territory, they
>>have treaty with the Chinese government.
>>
>>>Yi-Chieh
>>
>>Ze Yang
>
>But, do you know that PRC refused to pay back ROC's war debt borrowed from
>the USA during the Civil war at 1949 ?

I doubt PRC need to continue the payment on artillery pieces KMT purchased
even they captured it.  By the same token, the Union army didn't exactly
pay back the confederate war-debt either!  


>BTW, how could you claim to inherit your parent's fortune before they died ? 

CCP and KMT are "brother" parties until they start fighting about the
family inheritance.  

>What's in a hurry ? Unless, PRC can completely eliminate/destroy ROC, 
>Taiwan belongs to ROC as you pointed out (thanks) and before then, ROC's 
>citizen will exclusively determine the future of Taiwan, such as TI. 
>Please respect to your parent's right when they are still alive. You have
>to kill them first, in order to inherit their fortune, don't you ?
>
>So, the point is, if CCP want to take Taiwan, come to get it, its not 
>for granted. If so, why so many Chinese feel so angry about Taiwanese 
>getting help from other countries ? Is there any rule said that a country 
>shouldn't get help from other people to defend the country ?
> 
come down, the ROC government can decide when/where/how much help is
needed to defend itself, against CCP or TI, chill out, let them
handle it.  

>Yi-Chieh


Newsgroups: soc.culture.china,soc.culture.taiwan,soc.culture.hongkong
From: falk2@seas.gwu.edu (James Falk)
Subject: Re: News readers from ROT(Republic of TooLate(Tai4Wan3) Re: Hello from news reader in China)
Organization: George Washington University
Date: Sat, 5 Sep 1992 09:43:03 GMT

In article <1992Sep4.224407.24612@ulowell.ulowell.edu> cshi@cs.ulowell.edu (Chunde Shi) writes:
>>Subject says it all. News readers from Republic of Taiwan.
>>
>>
>
>
test
Newsgroups: soc.culture.china
Subject: test
From: Tao Yao <TAYAO@MTUS5.BITNET>
Date: Saturday, 5 Sep 1992 12:48:09 EST
Organization: Computing Technology Services, Michigan Technological Univ.

It's just a test, don't worry about it. Thanx alot.
From: joe@astro.as.utexas.edu (Joe Wang)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.china
Subject: Re: Chinese culture
Date: 12 Sep 92 22:45:42 GMT
Organization: McDonald Observatory, University of Texas @ Austin

In article <1992Sep11.222444.9195@news.acns.nwu.edu> usenet@news.acns.nwu.edu (Usenet on news.acns) writes:
>Don't blame people for not traditional. If we  
>keep traditional, our country will stay where she is now forever without  
>progress.

With a 8% per year GDP growth, China is definitely changing.  Some of
those changes (more money) are good.  Some of those changes (more
corruption) are bad.  On the whole, I'd say that there are more good
changes than bad ones.

>Why? that land is too old and dry like our old  
>culture. No matter how hard you dig, there is little the culture can offer 
>in this modern era.  

Chinese culture offers two things.  First of all, it offers about 5000
years of experience into how people behave.  Chinese culture can be
thought of partly as a huge living database of information, and with
this database you can avoid making the same mistakes as earlier
people.  Second, Chinese culture offers a point of stability in what
is an unstable world.  

>Yes, the old Chinese culture is our ancester's culture. 
>But why should we stick to it? 
>Why not search somewhere else for something new. (as in the film, move  
>down hill where there is plenty of water). Why?

Where do you suggest looking?  The West has a lot of problems of its
own.




Newsgroups: soc.culture.china
From: roten@CUBA.gsfc.nasa.gov (Charles Roten)
Subject: Re: To those pro Shen Tong guys .. a question for SCC folks
Followup-To: soc.culture.china
Organization: /cuba_b/dirbe/roten/.organization
X-Newsreader: GNU Emacs 18.57.1, GNUS 3.13, NNTP 3.10
	<ROTEN.92Sep9165304@CUBA.gsfc.nasa.gov>
	<unreg-100992170214@cinder.ncl.ac.uk>
Date: Thu, 10 Sep 1992 22:48:11 GMT

In article <unreg-100992170214@cinder.ncl.ac.uk> 
unregistered@newcastle.ac.uk (sundaram) writes:

>In article <ROTEN.92Sep9165304@CUBA.gsfc.nasa.gov>,
>roten@CUBA.gsfc.nasa.gov (Charles Roten) wrote:
>> 
>> In article <8974unreg-080992172928@cinder.ncl.ac.uk> 
>> unregistered@newcastle.ac.uk (sundaram) writes:
>> 
>> [sigh .. never mind .. cited rant deleted]
>> 
>> A question for SCC netters:  
>> 
>> What is it about this thread that makes me feel that the Cultural 
>> Revolution is alive, well, and living in Usenet News ????  
>> 
>> --
>> Charles Roten | Hughes-STX, Incorporated | 
>>   roten@cuba.gsfc.nasa.gov               | 'Use the Source, Luke!'
>>   7601 Ora-Glen Dr., Greenbelt, MD 20706 | 
>>   301-513-7805 (w),  301-317-0872 (h)    |            Obi-Wan Stallman
>Pardon my boorishness! Wow..a mature WASP arse on SCC. A million apologies
>Obi-Wan Roten. What are you doing here, having your arse polished?

Hmmm .. it also seems that Yang Zhao is alive and well in Britain.  :-) 
I guess he transferred from UCSD ... :-) 

--
Charles Roten | Hughes-STX, Incorporated | 
  roten@cuba.gsfc.nasa.gov               | 'Use the Source, Luke!'
  7601 Ora-Glen Dr., Greenbelt, MD 20706 | 
  301-513-7805 (w),  301-317-0872 (h)    |            Obi-Wan Stallman
From: v999sbtd@ubvmsb.cc.buffalo.edu (Hong Pan)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.china
Subject: test
Date: 9 Sep 92 19:02:00 GMT
Organization: University at Buffalo
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41

test only!
From: v999qx29@ubvmsd.cc.buffalo.edu
Newsgroups: soc.culture.china
Subject: Re: F-16's fear?
Date: 6 Sep 92 17:07:00 GMT
Organization: University at Buffalo
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41

In article <65500095@acf3.NYU.EDU>, yangze@acf3.NYU.EDU (Ze Yang, , , ) writes...
> 
>Taiwan is a piece of land got back by China after we defeated Japan, I don't
>understand why Mr. Chang says it is a country, if it is a country as
>Mr. Chang claimed, there must be very few people know this.
> 
>By the way, when those asian countries were fighting Japan's invasion,
>where were those taiwanese boys and girls, they were not defending
>"their own country", I am sure some of them are serving their Japanese 
>masters, how did they become so tough in recent years?  
> 
>They don't have the right to say taiwan is a independent country now, 
>it's a piece of land owned by Chinese.
> 
> 
>Ze Yang

Lets not talk about history in this matter. Or , how can you explain
that taiwan defended China against Japanese invasion in the Sino-Japanese
war but deserted by China . Where were mainland boys and girls when
Taiwanese succesfully stopped Japanese landing on the island. Probably
sucking Opium pipe on the bed then sold their brothers in Taiwan to
Japanese so that they can keep sucking their pipes. The wound Taiwanese
have suffered is painful enough and dosen't need anybody to worsen it.
Newsgroups: soc.culture.china
From: hong@mbfys.kun.nl (Hong Zhou)
Subject: Looking for a friend at Univ. of Texas
Organization: University of Nijmegen
Date: Tue, 8 Sep 1992 13:10:55 GMT

Hi Everyone out Texas,

I am in search of the address/telephone number of a friend whose 
name is Elsje Verhagen. She was a graduate student majoring in 
Education at Univ. of Texas until last summer. If you can 
help me to locate her, please drop me a line. Your help is  
deeply appreciated. 

Thanks in advance, 

Hong Zhou
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
Hong Zhou            |-----|    \       Dept. of Med. Physics & Biophysics
Muzenplaats 30       |__|__| |-----|    University of Nijmegen
6525 JA Nijmegen     | _|_ |  --|--     6525 EZ Nijmegen, The Netherlands
The Netherlands      |  _  |   / 	
                     | |_| |  / /       Tel.   +31-80-614230
tel. +31-80-556412  /     \|   /__\     email: hong@mbfys.kun.nl
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: bsou@cs.arizona.edu (Brandon S. Ou)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.china
Subject: Re: Michael Chang in US Open Semi-Final!
Date: 12 Sep 92 04:52:30 GMT
Distribution: na
Organization: University of Arizona Computer Science Department

In article <1992Sep11.212947.2196@objy.com> cw@orion.uucp (C.W. Chung) writes:

>French Open '89.  He'll play Stefan Edberg in the semifinal.
>The winner will face the winner of Courier - Sampras match for
>the final.
>
>Any speculation or suggestion?

Well, not to flame Chang or anything like that, but Stefan Edberg 
happens to be my favorite tennis player, so I will have to go against
our "hero" on this one...

Brandon
Newsgroups: soc.culture.china
From: kliao@ux1.cso.uiuc.edu (Ke Liao)
Subject: Re: HELP: looking for a person
Keywords: na4 ri4 si1
Organization: University of Illinois at Urbana
Distribution: na
Date: Tue, 8 Sep 1992 04:12:18 GMT

cs921022@ariel.yorku.ca (MING HE) writes:


>Who knows the e-mail of Ms. na4 ri4 si1 at Iowa state univ, who arrive
               Also,  Ms. Wang Li at Iowa State University.

>the states 2 years ago?

>many thanks,

>ming
Newsgroups: soc.culture.china,soc.culture.taiwan,soc.culture.hongkong
From: claudius@leland.Stanford.EDU (Nelson Lu)
Subject: Re: Territory of Ancient China : Song Dynasty
Organization: DSG, Stanford University, CA 94305, USA
Date: Tue, 8 Sep 92 01:37:33 GMT

In article <9225200.21615@mulga.cs.mu.OZ.AU> dht@cs.mu.OZ.AU (Joyous Dave baby) writes:
>
>**Area under Central Control:
>
>1111 A.D.
>Song only occupied what was left over from the Five Dynasties and
>Ten Kingdom Period.  Being surrounded by Eight countries.
>
>1142 A.D.
>Jin Dynasty (from Manchuria) has taken over Manchuria, large part
>of Siberia, parts of Mongolia, and areas surrounding Yellow River.
>Song (South) occupied the remaining part of China in the South.
>
>**Area under Central Influence:
>
>Manchuria and parts of Inner Mongolia and GanSu, although not
>under Central Control, were subject to major influences from
>Song.

This is not correct.  (Unless you are talking about Jin, which I didn't think
you were)  Before Jin's rise, current-day Manchuria and Inner Mongolia were
controlled by Liao, which is *definitely* not influenced by Song in any way.
(In fact, Song paid tributes to Liao)  Western Inner Mongolia and Ning Hsia
was controled by West Hsia.
Newsgroups: soc.culture.china