HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: wrat@unisql.UUCP (wharfie)
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
Subject: Re: An ex-boxer and lurker wishes to comment...
Date: 3 Sep 92 15:41:00 GMT
Article-I.D.: unisql.3601
Reply-To: wrat@unisql.UUCP (wharfie)
Organization: UniSQL, Inc., Austin, Texas, USA

In article <0wsHqB5w165w@ledge.ersys.edmonton.ab.ca> bhendrix@ledge.ersys.edmonton.ab.ca (Brian Hendrix) writes:
>        - You cannot hypothesize how a match between a boxer and,
>          say, a judoka (sp?) will turn out.  When different arts
>          are compared it comes down to:  Who will be able to put
>          himself in a position to use his art?  A judoka will win
>          if he gets to grapple with the boxer, a boxer will win

	The interesting part is "How can I get close enough?  How can
I stop him from getting close enough?"  And in this particular example,
"How can I get a grip while he's punching me?" (The answer is evade the
punches as best you can and aim for the body and upper arms.  Don't
try to grab a punch!)  and "How hard is it not to get punched on the way
in?"  (The answer is "Very." :-)

>          predict the winner every time in a fight that has one
>          opponent armed with a handgun and one armed with a grenade?

	I'll bet on the guy with the grenade every time.  "Almost only
counts in..." :-)
From: psc@sei.cmu.edu (Peter Capell)
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
Subject: Re: "Activist shot" discussion
Date: 2 Sep 92 20:48:43 GMT
Organization: Software Engineering Institute


Sheez, I just tuned into this one.  Honestly folks, you can't imagine my alarm
at the suggestion that a policeman isn't fully within his rights to blow the
head off of *any* knife wielder.  Apparently those of you who don't think so
have also not viewed the movie "surviving edged weapons."  It demonstrates
very effectively how deadly a knife (let alone a f*%!ing machete) can be.  Of
course I think if you have the opportunity, you *should* kill the knife
wielder... as a civic duty.  Of course I must admit that my rising sense of
anger over the sheer number of "undesirables" there are out there is biasing
my commentary.  I many times feel it would be no tragedy to "forcibly remove"
people just for making elderly folks uncomfortable as they try to make their
way down the streets.  

But hell, even if you are less extreme, you can't possibly have ever
contemplated a *serious* knife attack if you are advocating that someone with
no other training than with a gun do anything other than shoot as quickly
as possible at the nearest and most vital target they can find.  Really!
From: chungy2@aix.rpi.edu (Yau Felix Chung)
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
Subject: Brandon Lee and Company....
Date: 28 Aug 92 01:55:05 GMT
Distribution: rec.martial-arts
Organization: Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute, Troy, NY


Hello all!
	I just saw "Rapid Fire" and was rather impressed with the
fighting scenes there.  I was wondering if someone could tell me what is
the philosophy behind JKD.  By that I mean that this movie, like the
Bruce Lee movies, has amazingly fast fighting techniques while other
MA films do not seem to be that way.  So I guess, my question is whether
speed is the main emphasis of JKD.
	Also, does anyone know who was that guy Brandon Lee fought almost
at the end of the movie (the oriental guy with the mustache)?  I have
scene him before in "Lethal Weapon" and some other movies but he is usually
not in fighting scenes.  He also seemed to do JKD.
	I have a video catalog that avertises JKD tapes by some guy named
Jerry Poteet.  Does anyone know who he is and whether he is "one of the most
Knowledgeable JKD men alive" (quote from D. Inosanto according to this
catalog).  The series consists of 5 tapes 45 min. each.


-F.
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
From: dmw@sei.cmu.edu (David White)
Subject:  Re: Different Karate Fist
Organization: Software Engineering Institute
Date: Fri, 28 Aug 1992 14:29:47 GMT


In article <1992Aug27.144515.24787@exu.ericsson.se> exudms@exu.ericsson.se
(New Dave) writes: 

	[snip...]
	... but in Chinese Shao Lin we have what is called the
   "Pheonix Eye fist". This is when you form a vertical fist with the index 
   finger and thumb pressed together. This protrudes from the fist creating
   a sharp point.

In article <1992Aug27.183118.1329@craycos.com> sog@craycos.com (Steve Gombosi)
replies:

[...] this is what we karate-types usually refer to as an
"ippon-ken" (one-point fist).[snip] 
Steve


While in article <1992Aug28.090238uunet!srg!srg!schan(Stephen Chan)>writes:

	Nope, the pheonix-eye fist is something else - the Japanese ippon ken
is functionally similar to the pheonix-eye fist - except that they use the 2nd
knuckle of the middle finger, instead of the second knuckle of the index
finger.
	[snip]
Stephen
	

---------------
Well, I believe that you are both right.  As I have been taught, both the
second knuckle of the index or the middle finger can be used for ipponken. The
strike (at my school) is a one finger knuckle strike that is supported on both
sides of the finger and is used for striking points.  The ring finger and
pinky aren't used this way because one cannot support those two with any
significant amount of strength.

just myself,

David





-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
David White		Did you ever notice that the Japanese words don't
dmw@sei.cmu.edu   	sound Japanese unless you grumble them?
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
From: stark@dwovax.enet.dec.com (Todd I. Stark)
Subject: Re: Western Boxing, how 'imprecise' is it ?
Organization: Digital Equipment Corporation
Date: 28 AUG 92 11:12:14    


hahn@plugh.network.com (Peter Hahn) writes...
> 
>Oh, dear.  I seem to be making a dreadful muddle of this, as usual.
> 
More likely, or just as likely, I over-reacted to the use of 'imprecision'
with respect to western boxing.  Thanks for helping to clarify and for the
discussion points, Peter.   Thanks to those who responded in mail as well.
I appreciate the viewpoints that were shared, and any other opinions
anyone would like to add.

						kind regards,

						todd

>Well, actually, I think we're pretty much in agreement, now that I
>understand how you are using the term precision.  Again, I probably
>should have chosen a different term to begin with.

>At any rate, where I work out, the lesson we are asked to draw from the
>fact that boxers miss once in a while is not that boxers are less
>precise than martial artists.  Rather, it is more like "That guy
>trained eight hours a day for ten years.  He still can't bat better
>than .500 with a *left* *jab*.  If you are trying something *more* complex,
>how often do you think you'll really land it?"

>Peter Hahn           |hahn@network.com|"...In Peking, he told me, there lived a
>7600 Boone Ave. N    |+1 612 424-4888 |famous boxer who dropped down from three
>Brooklyn Park, MN USA|                |stories onto an interior courtyard
>55428                |                |without making a sound when he landed."
From: myth@diku.dk (Martin Koch)
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
Subject: Re: kyokunshikai karate ???
Date: 2 Sep 92 15:06:00 GMT
Organization: Department of Computer Science, U of Copenhagen

kkangas@tnclus.tele.nokia.fi writes:

>        What is kyokunshikai karate style ?

Kyukushinkai karate is an offshoot of Shotokan karate. There are many
differences, but also many similarities.

>        In here those guys are advertising it to be the toughest karate 
>        style in a world. They are calling it "knock down karate".

I've never read an article claiming that Kyukushinkai is the toughest karate
style. The general consesus here on rec.martial.arts seems to be that
"toughest" or "best" is a term that is not applialble to martial arts, and I
agree. The term "knock down" refers to the competition style, where the
primary objective is to knock down your opponent. There are no points for
technical finesse.

I'll be happy to answer any specific questions you (or anyone else) have....

Osu!

Martin

P.S. "Toughest" and "Best" may, of course, be applied to Greenoch ;) 
From: mwong@hpcc01.corp.hp.com (Marilyn J Wong)
Date: Sun, 23 Aug 1992 22:14:49 GMT
Subject: Re: Shao Lin revisited
Organization: the HP Corporate notes server
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts

To the one who said that wu-shu is 'missing a lot of importance'
[with respect to traditional kung-fu] is watching wu-shu with the
non-practiced eye.  All of the moves that are done in the now
considered 'modern' wu-shu are from traditional kung-fu.  They
serve a purpose and are not executed without reason.

Wu-shu is a lot flashier than tradition kung-fu styles and it
is commonly considered dance (a very offensive categorization)
or not even a martial art.  But for all of those critics of 
wu-shu; wu-shu comes from a rich heritage of Chinese martial arts.
Like all Chinese martial arts which was handed down through the
generations, there is room for some variation from its original state
and different types of interpretation.

I think that this is one of the beauties of martial arts- ths
potential growth of a style throught the generations as it is handed
from teacher to student. 

Comments???
From: dmw@sei.cmu.edu (David White)
Subject: Looking for Japanese Dictionary
Organization: Software Engineering Institute
Date: Fri, 28 Aug 1992 13:52:51 GMT

Hey all:

Does anyone know where I can find a Japanese to English dictionary on-line
anywhere?  

Also, where would a person go to purchase a cheap($180 - $400) katana.  I need
a real one to practice with, but since it will be getting banged on frequently,
I am hoping that there are swords that are not antiques that will last  and are
relatively inexpensive.

Thanks in advance,

David
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
David White		Did you ever notice that the Japanese words don't
dmw@sei.cmu.edu   	sound Japanese unless you grumble them?
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: hawrysch@husc4.harvard.edu (George Hawrysch)
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
Subject: Re: T'ai chi advice sought
Date: 25 Aug 92 19:41:55 GMT
Article-I.D.: husc3.1992Aug25.154155.15100
Distribution: usa
Organization: Harvard University Science Center


Michael Robinson suggests:

>A teacher who learned in China is most likely better than one who didn't.


Where a teacher studied is irrelevant. So are most other kinds
of certification (with whom, how long, etc.). What matters is:

 a) did he learn anything
 b) can he teach it
 c) will he teach it

I would not take too seriously anyone who claims geography as
authority. Having learned in China is not usually a liability,
but it can't be taken as an assurance of quality either.

--George--
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
From: goodwin@orionsci.uucp (Ben Goodwin)
Subject: Jumping
Organization: Orion Scientific, Inc.
Date: Tue, 01 Sep 1992 13:53:48 GMT

Quick question on jumping:

What types of exercises should I do to increase my vertical leap?
I'm working on my jumping spinning back kicks and I figure there must
be some muscles that I can work on to give me a little more height.

Any replies appreciated.
-- 

-Ben
From: david_yeh@MACMAIL.MED.NYU.EDU ("David Yeh")
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
Subject: Etymology question...
Date: 23 Aug 92 15:10:16 GMT


                      Etymology question...
Hello, people,

If this works, I may have finally found a way to post to rec.martial-arts!

(Lurker no more!)

((Of course, now that I no longer have much time to read, much less
post, I'll only be a very infrequent contributor here for another half year))

Anyway, here's a question for some of you:

After that thread a while ago involving Gichin Funakoshi's book
"Karate-do My Way of Life" I finally got a copy of it, and read how
historically "Kara-te" in kanji (Chinese characters) meant "Chinese-hand,"
(much like how there was also "Okinawa-te," "bushi no te," etc.) and how
"kara" is the same character as t'ang" as in the T'ang dynasty in Chinese
history (which at the time was synonymous with Chinese civilization).

And how later on "kara" (T'ang, "Chinese") was changed to "kara"
(k'ong, "empty") for various reasons.

Well, I got to thinking, a direct translation, then, of the Japanese
"kara-te" character-for-character in Chinese would be "T'ang shou."

And _that_ got me thinking... "T'ang shou" "T'ang shou" "Tang soo?"
Hmm... So "karate-do" "Way of the empty hand" would be in Chinese
"T'ang shou dao" which would be in Korean "Tang soo do," that Korean
martial art I was hearing so much about in this newsgroup?

So can anyone who is familiar with the etymology of Tang soo do verify
the Chinese characters for the art?  And if they do indeed mean the
same as "Way of the Chinese hand," can someone who is familiar with
both Tang soo do and Karate-do verify or refute, the
similarities/differences between the two?

Thanks a lot!

-DavID,
	Not really a hard stylist, but curious anyway...
From: tms@cs.umd.edu (Tom Swiss (not Swift, not Suiss, Swiss!))
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
Subject: Re: kyokunshikai karate ???
Date: 2 Sep 92 17:20:35 GMT
Organization: The Reality Liberation Front (pixels to the people!)

myth@diku.dk (Martin Koch) writes:
>kkangas@tnclus.tele.nokia.fi writes:
>
>>        What is kyokunshikai karate style ?
>
>Kyukushinkai karate is an offshoot of Shotokan karate. There are many
>differences, but also many similarities.
>
>>        In here those guys are advertising it to be the toughest karate 
>>        style in a world. They are calling it "knock down karate".

     I study Sedio karate, which is an "offshoot" of Kyokushinkai (Nakamura
was the North American chairman of the Kyokushinkai organization before he
left to start Seido.) Many of the senior black belts at my dojo were
Kyokushinkai students before Seido was founded - their stories are
pretty wild. I don't know what the style is like today, but back
then - about 20 years ago - it was _brutal_.

     One of my senseis took his black belt promtion with two broken
ribs, with only a piece of tire taped over the injury for protection -
they used no pads or armor. And I think they had the same 100-man
kumite requirement for black belt we still have in Seido. (100
2-minute matches.)  You started doing full-contact kumite from your
first class. I've also seen a film of a Kyokushinkai black belt going
one on one with a black bear. (I think that's highly unethical, but it
is impressive.) If you can find it, _Fighting Black Kings_ is a film
of a big-time Kyokushinkai tournament from that time. (Many of the
people mentioned in it are now big names in the Seido organization.)

>I've never read an article claiming that Kyukushinkai is the toughest karate
>style.

     I don't know about stating that it's "tougher" than other arts. It's
definitely a very "hard" art.

===============================================================================
Tom Swiss/tms@flubber.cs.umd.edu| "Born to die" | Keep your laws off my brain!
     "What's so funny 'bout peace, love and understanding?" - Nick Lowe 
          This is a .signature antibody. Vaccinate your .sig!
    "You all look like happy campers to me.  Happy campers you are, happy
     campers you have been, and, as far as I am concerned, happy campers you
     will always be."
                -- Vice President Dan Quayle, to the American Samoans,
                   whose capital Quayle pronounces "Pogo Pogo"
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
From: fnord@panix.com (Cliff Heller)
Subject: Re: Query: Gung fu in New York City
Date: Wed, 2 Sep 1992 15:07:58 GMT
Distribution: na
Organization: Right Bleedin' Church of Libertine Obfuscatology

In <1992Sep1.225953.21248@nntp.uoregon.edu> toman@darkwing.uoregon.edu (Joseph Toman) writes:

>What gung fu schools are there in Manhattan ? My brother-in-law used to
>practice some sort of Chinese style and wishes to start again. The
>phrases that came up were 'Shaolin','Northern',and 'longfist' or some 
>combination thereof. I have a perfect ignorance of Chinese styles, so I
>hope this makes sense. Any help or recomendations would be appreciated.

There's lots of schools in Manhattan.

I'll just plug mine:

Wai Hong's Fu-Jow Pai Kung-FU

at Canal st. just east of Bowery  (2nd floor).
-- 
    / \      Reverend fnord                 | "King Kong died for your sins!"
   /   \     fnord@panix.com                | 
  / <0> \                                   | "Don't just eat a hamburger, 
 /_______\   Church of Obfuscatology, Inc.  |  eat the HELL out of it!"
From: cyeomans@ms.uky.edu (Charles Yeomans)
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
Subject: Re: Can boxing skills handle kicking?
Date: 1 Sep 92 18:47:54 GMT
    <1992Sep1.043055.12413@marlin.jcu.edu.au>
Organization: University Of Kentucky, Dept. of Math Sciences

In article <1992Sep1.043055.12413@marlin.jcu.edu.au> cpgrb@marlin.jcu.edu.au (Graeme Bennett) writes:
>In article <1992Sep1.004654.7355@uwm.edu> ninjam@csd4.csd.uwm.edu (Marty) writes:
>>
>>
>>Graeme Bennett writes:
>
>
>>Boxing is an INFIGHTING art.  It's used in close range.
>
>Close in, a boxer attempts to clinch or tries uppercuts.  They have few
>options compared to an MA.
>
This is really pretty silly, I think.  WHat is an "MA"?
Boxing is as much a martial art as, say, kendo.  I have 
seen people defend judo as a fighting art because one can add the 
atemi and other goodies left out of sport judo to make it a more
well-rounded fighting art.  But boxing, as it was practiced before
M. of Q. rules, included headbutting, eye gouging, the use of the knees
and a throw or two.  Indeed, there are professional boxers who know
this sort of stuff - they just don't talk about it (closed-door stuff, 
if you like).  Indeed I was shown by a ranked professional boxer how
to throw a jab-forehead combination.

I do not make any claims about the level of sophistication of boxing
or its completeness as a martial art.  Hell, karate doesn't look
like much either - all that punch, chop, block, kick - until you
talk to someone who really understands it.

Charles Yeomans
yeomans@austin.onu.edu
cyeomans@ms.uky.edu
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
From: doug@eng.umd.edu (Douglas N. Cohen)
Subject: Re: The Boxer and the Rat
Date: Tue, 25 Aug 92 23:46:40 GMT
Organization: 	we don't need no stinkin' organization!
Summary: 	-=-=-< humor >-=-=-
Followup-To: 	okay.... i know who did it, so send it to them....
Keywords: 	der chanster....

In article <SCHAN.92Aug25090416@atria.srg> schan@atria.srg (Stephen Chan) writes:
>In article <1992Aug24.172937.26326@cbfsb.cb.att.com> osan@cbnewsb.cb.att.com (Mr. X) writes:
>>
>>	   Uh, what exactly is a "lower" form of life? 
>>
>>	   -A.V

	alright andy.... i'll let you off this time.....

>
>	Well, from my (rather primitive) perspective, anything which I can eat
>(and not get eaten by) is a "lower" form of life.
>
>	So, chickens, cows, burritos, cheeseburgers, and fudomakis are lower
>forms of life.
>
>	Note that the relationship isn't always cut and dried, it's a

		(so to speak...)

>situational thing. If I have a high powered rifle, then a large bear is
>conceivably a lower life form - but if I'm empty handed, then a bear is a

	only if you can't hit it, run away from it, avoid it, etc....

>higher life form.
>

	i'm not even gonna touch that one....

>	Stephen
>
>ps.
>	Hey folks, I changed jobs, and this is my new account. Pretty nifty,
>huh?

	your hand-writing has changed, too...... hmmmm...!?
	another opinion, worth about what you paid for it .....
        and, as always, i am/at:

             doug:  < doug@eng.umd.edu > : < doug@lpf.umd.edu >

           -=-=-=-=-=-=-< a ghost in the machine >--=-=-=-=-=-=-

        "presidential elections are planned distractions to divert
	 attention from the actions behind the scenes...."
                                                   greetings from timbuck three!
From: Matt.Balara@bbs.oit.unc.edu (Matt Balara)
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
Subject: FAQ, fencing and Aikido.
Date: 30 Aug 92 23:51:02 GMT
Organization: Extended Bulletin Board Service

I've just started reading this group and have a few questions, potentially
stupid...

1) Is there a r.ma FAQ and where might I find it?

2) I was glad to see mention of fencing recently.  I've been involved in
Elizabethan reneactment fencing for about 2 years.  Myself and a small
group of friends have been studying the fencing manuals written by Silver
and Saviollo in the sixteenth century and doing our best to recreate the
feel of the weapons and the skills necessary to use them.  Having also
been involved in the modern sport of fencing I've found the recreation
work we've done to be considerably more challenging, strenuous and in the
long run, fun.  Has anyone else had much experience with this sort of
fencing?  I know that the SCA does something like this, how similar? I may
be inviting some flames, but I've found modern fencing to be so
specialised and limited by rules that it seems detached from any martial
facets it may've once had, we seemed to recapture a little of this in our
reenactment...comments?

3) I'm very interested in getting back into unarmed MA (I trained in
TaeKwonDo for a while) but am looking for something softer than I already
know.  I've heard many good things about Aikido.  Can anyone recommend a
good book on it from which I might get an overview of the art?  Also, can
anyone recommend an Aikido dojo in Richmond Virginia?

Thanks very much,

::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::
   Matt Balara                          "It's not my planet monkeyboy!"
   Matt.Balara@bbs.oit.unc.edu                            -John Whorfin
::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::

--
   The opinions expressed are not necessarily those of the University of
     North Carolina at Chapel Hill, the Campus Office for Information
        Technology, or the Experimental Bulletin Board Service.
           internet:  bbs.oit.unc.edu or 152.2.22.80
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
From: robinson@cogsci.Berkeley.EDU (Michael Robinson)
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
Subject: Re: T'ai chi advice sought
Date: 25 Aug 1992 22:13:07 GMT
Organization: Institute of Cognitive Studies, U.C. Berkeley
NNTP-Posting-Host: cogsci.berkeley.edu

In article <1992Aug25.154155.15100@husc3.harvard.edu> hawrysch@husc4.harvard.edu (George Hawrysch) writes:
>>A teacher who learned in China is most likely better than one who didn't.
>
>I would not take too seriously anyone who claims geography as
>authority. Having learned in China is not usually a liability,
>but it can't be taken as an assurance of quality either.

True, but in the context of looking for a T'ai Chi instructor for the 
purpose of learning a martial art, anyone who studied in China will at 
least be aware that it is a martial art, have an idea what a martial art
actually is (it's amazing how many T'ai Chi "instructors" don't), and have a
greater likelihood of emphasizing martial application.

Of course, as you say, this is still no guarantee that they aren't utter
fools.


-- 
  ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
  Michael Robinson                          UUCP:   ucbvax!cogsci!robinson
                                        INTERNET: robinson@cogsci.berkeley.edu
From: poore@ds9.scri.fsu.edu (David Poore)
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
Subject: Re: Can boxing skills handle kicking?
Date: 1 Sep 92 19:28:21 GMT
Reply-To: poore@ds9.scri.fsu.edu (David Poore)
Organization: Florida State University

In article <3572@unisql.UUCP> wrat@unisql.UUCP (wharfie) writes:
>In article <1992Sep1.043055.12413@marlin.jcu.edu.au> cpgrb@marlin.jcu.edu.au (Graeme Bennett) writes:
>	Some boxer's jabs are more powerful than your right cross.  And

Yup. Larry Holmes had one hell-for-powerful jab in his prime.

>>Close in, a boxer attempts to clinch or tries uppercuts.  
>	Or hooks, or body blows.  

Or Rabbit punches you after forcing you head down. Or (Mike Tyson's
favorite trick) headbutts you. Or kidney punch. 

David Poore
poore@ds9.scri.fsu.edu