From: murphy@npri6.npri.com (David P. Murphy)
Newsgroups: news.groups
Subject: About elitism^H^H^H^H^H^H^Hoppression
Date: 21 Nov 92 05:48:48 GMT
Distribution: world
Organization: NPRI, Alexandria VA


>>>No, it isn't. But to justify ostracization from a vote because of that
>>>frustration isn't exactly fair. 
>>>
>>>dave@jato.jpl.nasa.gov (Dave Hayes)

 >>And to demand that the rights of people who can't even be bothered to
 >>inform themselves of how the network they're using are being violated
 >>isn't. "Help, help, I'm being oppressed"
 >>
 >>jhenders@jonh.wimsey.bc.ca (John Henders)

>(Again I repeat myself) It's not like they had an option of whether or
>not to be bothered. You are lumping those who are ignorant of their
>ignorance (the unwillingly ignorant) into the same class as those who
>are willingly ignorant. 
>
>They ARE being oppressed. Especially if they would have gotten involved,
>had they known.
>
>dave again

it occurs to me that dave & john have opened up a new Tangented Can 'o Worms
which i hereby volunteer to straighten out:

      at what point in a news.life is the user being "oppressed"?

i would think that even dave would agree that a user cannot be "oppressed"
on his very first day, since they can barely figure out how to read articles
at all.  perhaps he can be browbeat by the second day, when he starts
whittling the number of groups by unsubscribing?  no, still too soon.  maybe
a week later, when he first dares to post?  nope, it was to rec.humor.funny
about a "strings" joke, so it doesn't really count.  how about a month later?
hmmm, even then a user still hasn't had enough time to wade through the sagans
and sagans of newsgroups to definitely find _all_ the interesting ones.
after two months . . . no, better make it three:  had a big crunch at the
office, or finals at State U, or a hard drive had to be replaced, or whatever.

okay, when three (3) months have passed since his first access, a user
can be said to have invested enough time [if not money] that moving a group
"behind his back" is legitimate cause to claim "oppression".

THEREFORE, we must cull all users with less than three months experience
on the net from the list of people who have been "oppressed" by the 
net.elite we are scourging.  and i don't get many chances to use that verb.

a description of "oppressability" and the Official Oppression Duration of
three months must, of course, be entered into the guidelines.  as long as
we're at it, a cross-reference to "horror, avoidance of" would be in order.

>Those people [who can make sense of the guidelines] are used to ferreting out 
>data from obscure documentation.
>
>still dave

oh, you mean RTFM?  ;-)

then what you're _trying_ to say is that people who have figured out reading
*and* replies *and* followups *and* editing *and* printing *and* unsubscribing
*and* moderators *and* group nomenclature *and* {blah blah blah} are incapable
of finding news.announce.newusers and reading the articles therein.

this does not seem to be a very strong support for you, dave . . .
i suggest you abandon it.  and allow me to spare you the bandwidth of
trying to claim that "not all net.readers can do all of those things",
because if they can't do most of them, they're not really going to miss
rec.music.synth very much because they don't seem to be capable of 
getting very much out of it or putting anything into it.

>How many people have read them and had them NOT work for them?
>You don't know that one...do you?
>
>dave "i'm a two-dozen-posts-a-day man, ma'am" hayes
      ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
      I ADDED THIS!  IT'S NOT DAVE'S .SIG!
      I'M JUST TRYING TO MAKE A HUMOROUS POINT!!

how many fingers am i holding up, dave?  you don't know that one, do you?
not surprisingly, both items of information are of equal worth in this
alleged discussion; since the number _cannot_ be determined by _anyone_,
it is a moot point.  which means it fits in nicely with the entire thread,
since the rest of the world seems to have stumbled over r.m.m.s. somehow.

unfortunately, i am only a systems programmer instead of a sysadmin.
since i don't qualify to join chip as another elitist, put me down as
"a sympathizer of the elitists".

ok
dpm
-- 
murphy@npri6.npri.com 602 Cameron St. Alexandria, VA 22314 (703) 683-9090

              When every one is dead the Great Game is finished.  Not before.
                              --- Hurree Babu, "Kim"