HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: adolphso@mizar.usc.edu (adolphson)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: Introduction
Date: 18 Aug 1992 14:55:15 -0700
Organization: University of Southern California, Los Angeles, CA
NNTP-Posting-Host: mizar.usc.edu

In article <1992Aug18.212941.21378@spdcc.com> 
dyer@spdcc.com (Steve Dyer) writes:
> In article <1992Aug18.150648.14682@fig.citib.com> 
> glp@fig.citib.com (Greg Parkinson) writes:
...
> >Because bitterness and blase cruelty are ugly.  
>
> Oh, please.  Arne's comments were about the mildest form of
> "cruelty" I can imagine.  It's preposterous to describe them
> with these words.

The "bitterness" is in Greg's head, and "blase cruelty"
strikes me as hilarious in this context.

> >Arne, you're a smart, witty, worldly person.
> >I don't understand why you find it necessary 
> >to be so toxic to people who really don't deserve it.
>
> I think you have an Arne-bug up your butt, Greg.

As long as that's the only thing of mine Greg wants
up his butt, I don't care.

Arne
From: nelson@reed.edu (Nelson Minar)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: Introduction
Date: 19 Aug 92 21:56:26 GMT
Article-I.D.: reed.1992Aug19.215626.10356
Organization: Reed College, Portland, OR

I've found that there are plenty of fine things to do with *OLDER*
*MEN*. Arguing about surfing, or political experience, or clothing
might be fun, but there are so many other ways to communicate..
-- 
                __
nelson@reed.edu \/                   Nothing is true; everything is permitted
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: rlc1028@zeus.tamu.edu (Gadson Sandor)
Subject: Is Transvestitism an Abomination (was Re: Is Homosexuality an Abomination?)
Organization: none
Date: Thu, 13 Aug 1992 15:54:00 GMT

In article <1992Aug9.202904.23519@amhux2.amherst.edu>, twpierce@amhux1.amherst.edu (Tim Pierce) writes...
 >In article <7AUG199209414022@rigel.tamu.edu> rlc1028@rigel.tamu.edu (Gadson Sandor) writes:

 >>dhanson@nyx.cs.du.edu (David L. Hanson) wrote:

 >>==================================================================
 >> 5.  The woman shall not wear that which pertaineth unto a
 >>man, neither shall a man put on a woman's garment: for all that
 >>do so [are] abomination unto the LORD thy God.
 >>(Deuteronomy, Chapter 22)
 >>==================================================================

 >>     You were talking about homosexuality, not cross-dressing.

 >Yeah.  Cross-dressing, now, that's really evil.  Boy.

[grin]  Just trying to keep his biblical context straight [ugh].  


gs

rlc1028@zeus.tamu.edu
From: fjvwing@cs.vu.nl (FJ!!)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: CFD, Gregg Strom
Date: 18 Aug 92 14:38:07 GMT

joe@spdcc.com (Joseph Francis) writes:
>So, FJ. "Gregg Strom", eh? No wonder you looked, well, dazed shall I
>say in the Argos.

Jojo, in total honesty, _that_ was because of the news about Rob you 
told me that night.
							FJ!!
From: adolphso@mizar.usc.edu (adolphson)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: Utopia (was Re: mandatory service)
Date: 15 Aug 1992 17:27:36 -0700
Organization: University of Southern California, Los Angeles, CA
NNTP-Posting-Host: mizar.usc.edu

You know, Robert, it's really very difficult to figure out who
said what from the way you quote material.  I assume what I've
quoted below is all yours.

In article <ROBERTL.92Aug15152928@luciano.Stanford.EDU> 
robertl@luciano.Stanford.EDU (Robert Lodenkamper) writes:

> I think at least a partial classification is possible.  For example, I
> can't think of anything positive about hate, so classifying hate as
> negative seems accurate.    

I would rather die than live in a utopia where everyone is in
a lobotomized state, walking around loving everyone else.  In 
any case, I can think of a number of positive features about 
hate, the most obvious being that it's a great motivator.

[...]
> Even if one could devise a method of altering human characteristics
> that would work, would it be right to impose it on everyone?  If so,
> how should it be implemented?  Hard questions to answer.

No, they're really very easy to answer.  No, it wouldn't be right
to impose this on everyone.  And since these alterations shouldn't
be imposed, you needn't worry about how to implement them.

Arne
From: adolphso@mizar.usc.edu (adolphson)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: St. Cole Porter (was Re: Homoerotic bible quotes?)
Date: 15 Aug 1992 15:19:54 -0700
Organization: University of Southern California, Los Angeles, CA
NNTP-Posting-Host: mizar.usc.edu
Keywords: paillettes, spangles, bugle beads, Ethel Merman

In article <1992Aug14.011003.5790@erg.sri.com> 
zwicky@erg.sri.com (Elizabeth Zwicky) writes:
> In article <1992Aug13.172313.15145@microsoft.com> 
> frankm@microsoft.com (Frank R.A.J. Maloney) writes:
> >In article <l8iqgfINNld@mizar.usc.edu> 
> >adolphso@mizar.usc.edu (adolphson) writes:
> >>Paillettes are spangles.  Merman wore a dress *covered*
> >>with bugle beads during that number. 

That number being Cole Porter's "Down in the Depths on 
the 90th Floor", which, btw, is identified in _Boys in the
Band_ as the faggots' national anthem.  It's such a great
song, and it has some of my *favorite* Cole Porter touches:

   When the crowds at El Morocco punish the parquet
   And at 21 the couples clamor for more
   I'm deserted and depressed
   In my regal eagle nest
   Down in the depths on the 90th floor

and my *favorite* internal rhyme:

   When the only one you wanted wants another
   What's the use of swank or cash in the bank galore?

> >Thanks for the correction and the information. One cannot
> >know too much about spangles.
>
> In that case, you would probably like to know that paillettes are a
> particular type of spangle; they are, in fact, large, flat sequins. A
> dress covered in bugle beads is not pailletted. Because paillettes are
> large (in the 1 inch diameter range). a pailletted dress would be less
> pretty and less expensive than one made with bugle beads. 

Hmmm.  This is very interesting.  Merman made a huge fuss about
her costume for this number.  Her reasoning was that if she was
going to sing the line "Here I sit above the town in my pet
pailletted gown", then she should be *wearing* a pailletted gown.
Sounds reasonable to me.  The producers were tightwads and tried
to argue that the audience wouldn't notice or care, so Ethel 
threatened to walk.  So they authorized new costume e fr her
and she held out for the most expensive gown she could get.  
(Ethel loved to twist the knife.)  That probably explains why
the paillettes were actually the more expensive (and attractive)
bugle beads. 

> Webster's
> New Collegiate claims that any old spangle is a paillette, but it was
> probably compiled by people who believed that it was all too easy to
> know too much about spangles, and didn't shop in the right catalogues.

You can say the same about the people who compiled the American
Heritage Dictonary, too.  (Even if they *do* use a photograph of
Edouard de Reszke in costume for _Faust_ to illustrate 
"Mephistopheles".)

Arne
From: shore@dinah.tc.cornell.edu (Melinda Shore)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: none
Date: 14 Aug 92 21:36:46 GMT
Reply-To: shore@tc.cornell.edu
Organization: Cornell Theory Center

[]
I, too, will miss Rob Bernardo.  Although I really didn't
know him very well it seemed to me that I must, since he,
like Steve, Jess, Max, and several others, have been part
of my portable community for such a long time.  I used to
run into him at conferences occasionally, and then there 
was that time that I was the only woman at a party at his
house (where I became consciously aware that anybody who 
thinks that homosexuality has anything at all to do with 
compromised masculinity hasn't ever been in a similar
situation).  We also used to exchange email about horses
and country music from time to time.

Part of the reason that I liked Rob so much was his
prickly personality - an attribute that I always find
appealing.  He used to throw the readers of rec.music.
country-western into fits of indignation on a regular
basis by things like complaining about Ricky Skaggs 
making homophobic comments at a concert, and suggesting
that sexism may be the reason why there were separate
country music awards for men and women.  He never actually
said that he enjoyed getting all those people riled, but
it was my impression that he did.

Goodbye, Rob.  We miss you already.
-- 
       Melinda Shore - Cornell Theory Center - shore@tc.cornell.edu
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: amz@cis.ohio-state.edu (Arnold M Zwicky)
Subject: posting in rec.gardens
Summary: rob bernardo
Originator: amz@iguana.cis.ohio-state.edu
Organization: out in linguistics, etc.
Date: Fri, 21 Aug 1992 12:57:14 GMT

 Newsgroups: rec.gardens
 From: amz@iguana.cis.ohio-state.edu (Arnold M Zwicky)
 Subject: rob bernardo
 Message-ID: <1992Aug21.024732.14657@cis.ohio-state.edu>
 Followup-To: rec.gardens
 Summary: in memoriam
 Organization: out in linguistics, linguistic society of america, etc.
 Date: Fri, 21 Aug 1992 02:47:32 GMT
 Lines: 21

this is to inform you that rob bernardo, of concord, california, a
poster to this newsgroup (most recently on the construction of his
drip irrigation system), died of hiv disease (his preferred term) last
thursday afternoon (13 august 1992) in mt. diablo hospital.  he was 40
years old (much too young, much too young).

rob was a dear friend of mine, and of several other posters to
this newsgroup.  on soc.motss, where we first became friends, he
was for over six years one of the voices that *made* the tone of
the group.

he was a linguist - that's how i first met him, in 1979 - a horseman
(the future of his mare, oriana spadix, is still something of a
issue), or more accurately a "cowboy" (sometimes he said "gentleman
farmer"), and a computer systems designer.  he was also a passionate
advocate for gay rights.  and a mensch.

i hope some of you will remember his voice here, and miss it.

   arnold




Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: buckmr@vccsouth28.its.rpi.edu (Ron Buckmire)
Subject: Re: Gay Republicans
Date: Thu, 20 Aug 1992 02:26:49 GMT

nelson@reed.edu (Nelson Minar) writes:

>But I just don't see how one can be gay and have an allegiance to the
>Republican party. Especially now.
Well, it's true I do find it difficult to imagine that someone would WANT to,
but I do appreciate that some people are in their that are trying to change 
that party. It is good to fight in both parties or else the Dems will just
take us for granted.

>How are the gay Republicans doing in California since Pete "Pete" Wilson?
Well, AB2601 is going to his desk soon and he'll probably veto it [it's out
of committee and going to the Senate floor].

>(a lot of news after the first day of the convention is talking about
>gay Republicans. Local TV stations here interviewed some Log Cabin
>types (including my friend Eric Brown, the one who told me that
>juggling dildos in front of children is wrong).
What I find bizarre is that they aren't talking to Black Republicans. Is Leonard
 Green in HOuston [this is a BLACK GAY REPUBLICAN (honey, can you say "F*cked
*p!?")]?

-- 
RON BUCKMIRE, 11 Colvin Circle, Troy, NY 12180-3735. 
vox:(518)-276-8910 fax:(518)-276-6920 buckmr@rpi.edu buckmr@rpitsmts.bitnet
"If a bullet should enter my brain, let that bullet destroy every closet door."
                                                                 -Harvey Milk
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: twpierce@amhux1.amherst.edu (Tim Pierce)
Subject: Re: the "oh" experience
Organization: Amherst College, Amherst MA
Date: Sat, 15 Aug 1992 20:50:51 GMT

In article <34136@cbmvax.commodore.com> kominetz@cbmvax.commodore.com (John Kominetz - CATS) writes:

>He called a few days later and tried to apologize for every anti-gay
>joke he ever made in my presence.  It seems most of my friends are
>more concerned about the tasteless jokes they made before they knew
>I was gay than about me being gay.

Sounds like the mark of a true friend to me.

-- 
____ Tim Pierce                / "Bisexual just means you pay for it."
\  / twpierce@amherst.edu      /  
 \/ (BITnet: TWPIERCE@AMHERST) /   -- Rock Hudson
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: dyer@spdcc.com (Steve Dyer)
Subject: Re: wearing symbols
Organization: S.P. Dyer Computer Consulting, Cambridge MA
Date: Wed, 19 Aug 1992 03:00:00 GMT

In article <1992Aug19.022122.29908@gordian.com> mike@gordian.com (Michael A. Thomas) writes:
>In article <1992Aug19.010523.29473@spdcc.com>, rdonahue@spdcc.com (Bob Donahue) writes:
>
>> 	Do you practice being clueless or does it come naturally to you?
>> 	The point is (and if you miss this one, I promise I'll give up
>> because there's no point in chasing after cardioencephalograms with
>> zero variance),
>   
>  Fuck you Bob, this is uncalled for.

It's just his bimonthly anti-International Male rant.
It makes more sense to just stay clear.

-- 
Steve Dyer
dyer@ursa-major.spdcc.com aka {ima,harvard,rayssd,linus,m2c}!spdcc!dyer
From: omhoward@acsu.buffalo.edu (The God-Bitch Emperor of Snuggle Bunnies)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Question...
Keywords: Walk a thon
Date: 22 Aug 92 02:54:39 GMT
Organization: UB

Hmmmm,,
     Has anyone here ever organized a walk a thon??  I've just been
elected vice president of our schools GLB* group and I was to organize
an aids walk a thon and i have no idea where to start.. 

Thanks muchly,

Have A Day
-Eftsne (Olu)
*Vox Domini*

******** ___________________________  All expressed opinions are mine unless
 * bi * | omhoward@acsu.buffalo.edu |  otherwise noted..  (UB wouldn't have
  ****  | V117MG7B@acsu.buffalo.edu |   any opinions (besides popular ones)
   **    ---------------------------     anyway..)
Smurf these codes:
         *S8/3 b g+(+) l+(-) y/ z(-) n+ o+(+) x(+) a+ u(+) v(+) j+(+)*
                     *B0 f w cd g++! k(+) s- h- r p*
Good quote follows:
   "I believe that homophobia is equivalent to racism.  Prejudicial violence
     towards gays and lesbians is as irrational as hostility towards African
     Americans.  A bigot is a bigot."     		-L.S. Welch 
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: bobsarv@microsoft.com (Bob Sarver)
Subject: Re: Gay Homophobia (was Re: Too straight looking to be gay???) (was re: UNGAY GAY)
Date: 17 Aug 92 23:14:34 GMT
Organization: Microsoft Corp.



(adolphso)
/It absolutely is *not* our responsibility to educate anyone about
/anything.  I suppose I should point out that I'm much more disturbed
/by gay homophobes than I am by the garden-variety straight phobes.
/And I don't feel pity for them -- I *hate* them.

Arne, you're a whiner.

Not everyone who opposes your political gospel is homophobic; and you 
are a coward for thinking so.  

But it's easier that way, isn't it?
By calling all those who disagree with you a homophobe, you can evade 
dealing with the *tough* questions, the questions that might
make you examine the things you do & say which are counterproductive
to your (alleged) goals.  

It seems that you believe in debate by sheer volume; just shout 
louder even if you are shouting nonsense.





(adolphso)
/I was -- am -- offended by this asshole's refusal to own up to his
/homophobia and by his attempt to blame the uncloseted for keeping 
/"handsome, masculine, and closeted" gay men in the closet.  

Arne, whether you like it or not, it is true.  Even if you are
"offended" (such strong language!), that doesn't detract from the
truth of what I said.

Because of what people like you do / say, it becomes very hard for
those in the closet to ever come out.  Again:  people like you
make coming out very difficult to do, because the precedents set 
are not positive ones.  

If all the prominent left-handed people I knew dyed their hair green and 
set their clothes on fire, I would probably stay a closet left-hander, too.

To illustrate:  Lt. Tracy Thorne, the naval aviator who came out on 
national TV (ABC News Nightline), did more for the cause of 
gay acceptance in America than all the leather parades & drag
queens will ever do.
Why?  Because he was nonthreatening, calm, reasonable, and firmly
believed in his rights as an individual.  People across America
looked at Thorne and said, "My god, he looks just like my son / my
neighbor / my friend."  It made America sit up and take notice.
Same for Col. Kammemyer; another bright, hardworking individual who
stated her case with conviction and calm assurance that she was
in the right.




(adolphso)
/(And what 
/about the not so handsome closeted gay men?  Or the handsome but not 
/so masculine closet cases?)  I don't have much patience for people
/in the closet.  

That's okay, Arne; most of them have NO patience for people like you.



(adolphso)
/I never have had patience for them, and probably
/never will.  


That's your problem, Arne.  Don't expect a round of applause.



(adolphso)
/That's an exaggeration, of course, for there have been
/closeted lesbigays I *have* tried to ease ou t,but I refuse to 
/take responsibility for anyone's closetedness.  

If you would just take responsibility for your own actions, that would
be more than enough.







Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: kls4344@ritvax.isc.rit.edu (Person in flux)
Subject: Re: Something Bush said....
Reply-To: kls4344@ritvax.isc.rit.edu
Organization: Rochester Institute of Technology
Date: Fri, 21 Aug 1992 13:28:30 GMT

In article <AAG.92Aug20201344@artemis.aber.ac.uk>, aag@aber.ac.uk 
(Angela Gilham) writes:

RE. Margaret Tutwiler 

>Yeah, but she signals dyke! Have you *seen* some of those dresses?
>I've never seen a straight woman with such bad clothes sense (a bright
>turquoise thing from the Gulf Crisis comes vividly to mind) . . . it's
>almost as bad as the true dyke lack of dress sense exhibited on the 
>k. d. lang video I was watching last night ;-)

Oh, does my lack of bad clothes sense make me not a true dyke?  Sob!

Katie
From: roger@quantime.co.uk (Roger Phillips)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Pomo Afro Homos, was: la.motss
Date: 19 Aug 92 19:02:14 GMT
Reply-To: roger@quantime.co.uk (Roger Phillips)
Organization: Quantime Ltd, London (software for market research)

In article <xjfy01@rpi.edu>,
buckmr@marcus.its.rpi.edu (Ron Buckmire) writes:
> Well Bryan and I had a BLAST atg the Pomo Afro Homos performace, so there!

Aren't they great!
I would've picked up on more of their stuff
if I'd been American and black,
but (thanks in part to soc.motss) I think I got
more than the average white male London resident did.

I ended up seeing them two nights running,
the second night wearing one of their t-shirts,
quite by accident - I'd worn it to work that day.
(It was a bit embarrassing,
taking a leak a few minutes before the performance,
finding myself right beside one of the cast members at the urinal.
He said, "familiar shirt,"
and I explained that I'd been there the night before.
He probably thought I was some kind of psycho groupie.
After the performance,
when he was inviting the audience to buy a t-shirt,
he mentioned that someone in the theatre was wearing one.
I was tempted to rush up on stage and flaunt it,
but I just smirked knowingly in the dark.)
-- 
Roger Phillips                            roger@quantime.co.uk
"Pooter, n. a petit bourgeois, conventional and unimaginative."
-- Chambers English Dictionary (1988)
Xref: sparky soc.motss:35448 ba.motss:1433
From: booter@Autodesk.COM (Elaine Richards)
Newsgroups: soc.motss,ba.motss
Subject: Re: Robert Bernardo  (1952-1992)
Date: 17 Aug 92 23:04:46 GMT
Followup-To: soc.motss
Organization: Autodesk, Inc., Sausalito, CA



Saturday, I was working on the AIDS Grove, a new project in Golden
Gate Park to restore a neglected section of the park near the 
Bowling Green. 

There were 40 of us, yapping and goofing around. I met a quiet man
whose name I have forgotten and we worked together. I talked with
one of the organizers about how I can help their mailing costs by
announcing work parties on the USENET. THe quiet man asked if I
read ba.motss. We jabbered excitedly for a while and then he told
me about Rob. (My reading habits on the net are slapdash, I admit.)

What a damn shame. I loved his goofy horse stories and his wit.

At the end of the workday, we remembered the departed, putting their
names and memories in the circle. We put Rob there in our circle.


ER
--

---------------------------------------------------------------------------
"I can't help it, I was born sneering."
			-Pooh Bah
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: jfh@netcom.com (Jack Hamilton)
Subject: Re: Redefining masculinity
Date: Fri, 21 Aug 92 05:57:04 GMT
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services (408 241-9760 guest)

In article <1992Aug20.202635.13628@microsoft.com> bobsarv@microsoft.com (Bob 
Sarver) writes:
>
>God, you really are a whiner.  If I mispelled something, would you
>also jump on that?

Maybe he does have a sense of humor after all!


-- 

-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Jack Hamilton   jfh@netcom.com   P. O. Box 281107   SF, CA   94128-1107
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: tdbear@tandon.com (Tom Barrett)
Subject: Re: Gay Money and marriages in PA
Organization: Tandon Corporation, Moorpark, CA
Date: Wed, 12 Aug 1992 16:57:05 GMT

In article <1992Aug10.223428.1734@drycas.club.cc.cmu.edu> barry@drycas.club.cc.cmu.edu writes:
>
>She told me that this is supposedly nation-wide.  I've not seen anything like
>that in Pittsburgh, PA.  Has anyone else seen it?

Yes... it started a few years ago in Chicago, I think.  It was
so wide spread that the Federal Treasurer offical there had to
come on TV to say that such stamping was illegal and if anyone
was caught, they would be arrested on defacing currancy
charges... I'm serious.  

Some advice... don't just do it to $20s since they are not
used to make change.  $1s are too many to deal with.  $5s and
$10s are better and would be distributed faster.  Now... just
to make sure we are clear on this... purposefully marking
currancy is a federal crime... if someone knows the details,
please post.



-- 
Tom Barrett (TDBear)    tdbear@tandon.com                 voice 805-378-6207
Tandon Corporation      tdbear@p6.f1006.n102.z1.fidonet.org fax 805-529-8895
Sr. HW Design Engineer  "War is Peace, No is Yes, And We're All Free!" 
[The views expressed herein may not be shared by the organization of origin]
From: adolphso@mizar.usc.edu (adolphson)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: Gay Homophobia (was Re: Too straight looking to be gay???) (was re: UNGAY GAY)
Date: 17 Aug 1992 19:44:32 -0700
Organization: University of Southern California, Los Angeles, CA
NNTP-Posting-Host: mizar.usc.edu

In article <1992Aug17.231434.13126@microsoft.com> 
bobsarv@microsoft.com (Bob Sarver) writes:

> Arne, you're a whiner.

Bob, you're a pathetic excuse for a homosexual.

> Because of what people like you do / say, it becomes very hard for
> those in the closet to ever come out.  Again:  people like you
> make coming out very difficult to do, because the precedents set 
> are not positive ones.  

You know, asshole, you have some nerve trying to blame me (and
forgive me, but I don't ever remember having met you) for the 
self-loathing and internalized homophobia felt by closeted gay men.
The only thing keeping closeted gay men in the closet is the 
closeted gay men themselves.

Begone, asshole, you're not even much fun to fuck with.

Arne

Newsgroups: soc.motss