HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: MASH@WEIZMANN.WEIZMANN.AC.IL (Michael Shimshoni)
Subject: Re: Kosher Question
Organization: Mail to News Gateway at Wang Labs
Date: Mon, 11 Jan 1993 14:13:38 GMT

In: <9301071648.AA25189@cyclone.sbi.com>
gertler@cyclone.sbi.com (Don Gertler) states:
 Subject: Re: Kosher question

>norm@helix.nih.gov(Norm Friedman) writes:
>
>> >Are the Kosher laws cumulative?  For example, if I eat a ham and
>> >cheese sandwich am I violating BOTH the law against eating ham AND the
>> >law against eating meat with milk, or does the fact that pork is treif
>> >mean that it doesn't count as meat for the purpose of the prohibition
>> >of meat with milk?
>> >
>> >If, in fact, there is a violation of both laws, what is the effect of
>> >that?  Is the appropriate punishment greater for the double violation
>> >than for the single one?
>
>> JK, if in fact you know it is a violation of Laws of Kasruth, why worry
>> about how many laws you are breaking. You are trying to equate man's laws
>> with Hashem's laws.
>
>This type of question is good enough to appear in the Gemara in several
>forms.  In fact, the Gemara tries to find acts that will violate the
>maximum number of issurim at once.  It's kind if fun (the enigma, that
>is, not the act, though that may be too).
>
>Pork is not considered meat, so eating ham and cheese is a violation of
 ===========================
>only one issur, provided, of course, that the cheese and bread are kosher.

Don may be correct in stating  that "Pork is not considered meat", but
for some reason the author of the  Torah does not share that view.  In
Vayiqra  (Leviticus)  11, 7-8  while  listing  some of  the  forbidden
animals its  says: "And the  pig... from  their *meat* you  should not
eat..."

Who was it who libeled the  Orthodox by claiming that they are rigidly
tied to old definitions? :-)

>-Don Gertler

  Michael Shimshoni
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
From: jle@locus.com (John Elghani)
Subject: Re: Israel must NOT return the "garbage"
Organization: LC
Date: Sat, 09 Jan 93 01:03:27 GMT

In article <9301072047.AA23177@helix.nih.gov> <norm@helix.nih.gov(Norm Friedman)> writes:
>Add to Alan Stein message: I always wondered how the only pictures to
>appear in our press-show one man on crutches (Which I read; he uses only
>FOR PICTURES) and pictures of prayers. (I wonder what they pray for).  I
>use the term."garbage" in my subject heading, since that is the term that
>the Lebanese gov't used when they said that Israel could not dump their
>garbage in Lebanon.

And you don't think of them as garbage, I assume, right?
Remember, Hitler thought of the innocent Jews as garbage as well.
Think, life is a 2 way strt, terms that are joyious to you,
hurt others.  And when you hurt the others, you should expect a 
fire back.  

Therefore, don't use such terms; the people you are calling garbage
are dignity people, they don't fear death, but they care not to be 
called garbage.

As to the question: "What they pray for" you just need to do
a little more research before you wonder.

I am a little disappointed in you, I think you should be very
familiar with all of what I said above.

The world should condemn the the garbage dumping issue, as
they are expected to condemn Hitler's action.

jle
From: dic5340@hertz.njit.edu (David Charlap)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
Subject: Re: Conversion Question
Date: 4 Jan 93 21:18:33 GMT
Organization: New Jersey Institute of Technology, Newark, N.J.

In article <1992Dec27.000326.24862@cbnews.cb.att.com> ask@cbnews.cb.att.com (Arthur S. Kamlet) writes:
>Well, actually I agree with the statement that Jews are defined by
>what they do and not what their beliefs are.

This is true.

>But then I read all these articles saying conservative converts are
>not kosher because they and their rabbis don't hold certain beliefs.

And this is also true.

>So I read with agreement the statement that beliefs do not define
>Judaism, yet know that beliefs will once again be thrown down as
>a gauntlet when conversion discussion arise.

Let me try to explain:

The rabbis beliefs don't make him any less a Jew, and they don't make
him any less qualified to supervise the ritual of conversion.  The
problem is that if the rabbi doesn't accept the entire Torah, there
exists a reasonable doubt whether he really knows what he's doing.
Most Orthodox, it seems, are not willing to give such a person that
benefit of doubt, which (to me) is a very wrong attitude.

On the other hand, if the conservative (or reform) actually do a
different ritual, then it becomes less a matter of reasonable doubt
and more a matter of "but no conversion was performed".
-- 
  |)  David Charlap          | .signature confiscated by FBI due to
 /|_  dic5340@hertz.njit.edu | an ongoing investigation into the
((|,)                        | source of these .signature virusses
 ~|~
From: mitch@novavax.UUCP (Mitch Silverman)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
Subject: Re: God's Hyphen
Date: 6 Jan 93 08:11:48 GMT
Organization: Nova University, Fort Lauderdale, FL

yaffe@pendragon.ICD.Teradyne.COM (Arthur G. Yaffe) writes:


>. . . and as you can tell, Dima, from the subject line, I don't believe 
>one must hyphenate the word "god".  In fact, it's just a word.  When

[13 lines deleted]

>                         Please keep in mind that S.C.J. is read
>by C and R as well as O, and a few X as well.  We can't expect everyone
>to understand that when you write "HaShem" they should pronounce 
>"adonoi".  That's too much to ask.

Hey!  Some of us are R--as in Reconstructionist!  Flame, flame!  8-}

But seriously--when Dima writes "HaShem" can I pronounce "Goddess"?
Or (much more in accord with Reconstructionism), one of the aspects
of the Divine?  (Though I must admit I'm partial to the former....)

Just my pluralistic $.02.

Mitchell L. Silverman              | As Voltaire never said, "I
Student, New College of            | disagree with what you say,
the University of South Florida    | but will defend to the death
Reply-to: mitch@cfraix.cfr.usf.edu | your right to say it."
From: ohayon@jcpltyo.JCPL.CO.JP (Tsiel Ohayon)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
Subject: Re: A self-confessed silly thread: Jewish Rock/Pop Stars
Date: 4 Jan 93 04:05:05 GMT
Organization: James Capel Pacific Limited, Tokyo Japan

In article aaldoubo@copper.denver.colorado.edu (Shaqeeqa) writes:
>In article ohayon@jcpltyo.JCPL.CO.JP (Tsiel Ohayon) writes:
>>
>>[ANISA] Sorry, Tsiel, but he was Roman Catholic.
>>
>>That's great news . Now I can listen to him again without any bad feelings:-)
>
>?  Why would you have any?  I don't get it ... are you saying that you
>have bad feelings towards Muslims in general?  Actually, I think it
>would be the opposite, considering the experience he encountered two years
>ago, when he tried to visit the Holy Land (he was harrased and not allowed in)
>Maybe it was that big beard ... ?  Tsiel, you might know that Yousef Islam
>donates the profits from his records to Islam and Muslims charities.  Having
>second thoughts?
 
Oh Anisa, sometimes you really disappoint me. No it is not against Islam, I had
some muslim friends when living in Israel. I'm mostly against the idea of Jews
converting to another religion as much as you have for muslims converting to
something else.

As for Muslim charities, does putting up money for Rushdie's death sentence
also apply as a charity?
It is illogical to give money to charities on one side and request death for
an "infidel" on the other just because he wrote some stupid book. If Jews were
to request the death penalty against all antisemite writers, the world would
have no more authors except for a few non-self hating Jews :-)

Tsiel
-- 
----8<--------------------------------------------------------------->8------
Tsiel:ohayon@jcpl.co.jp	   | If you do not receive this E-mail, please let me
Employer may not have same | know as soon as possible, if possible.
opinions, if any !         | Two percent of zero is almost nothing.
From: friedenb@silver.egr.msu.edu (Gedaliah Friedenberg)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
Subject: Shir HaMa'alos question
Date: 12 Jan 93 18:11:24 GMT
Reply-To: friedenb@silver.egr.msu.edu (Gedaliah Friedenberg)
Organization: College of Engineering, Michigan State University
NNTP-Posting-Host: silver.egr.msu.edu


Why is it that in the beginning of Birkas HaMazon on Shabbos (when he
sing Shir HaMa'alos) that some people stop before the last paragraph
and do not sing "tehillas Hashem y'daber pi, vi-varech....."?

At my yeshiva some men sing the words (only a few) and the rest
sing the tune with la la la instead of the words themselves.


Gedaliah Friedenberg
-=-Department of Mechanical Engineering
-=-Department of Metallurgy, Mechanics and Materials Science
-=-Michigan State University


                   
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish,soc.culture.german
From: roger@crux.Princeton.EDU (Roger Lustig)
Subject: Re: Jews For Germans
Originator: news@nimaster
Reply-To: roger@astro.princeton.edu (Roger Lustig)
Organization: Princeton University
Date: Sat, 9 Jan 1993 02:51:46 GMT

In article <1993Jan8.225321.1@vxdesy.desy.de> godfrey@vxdesy.desy.de writes:
>In article <C0Jzzw.Lzu@news.cso.uiuc.edu>, levine@symcom.math.uiuc.edu (Lenore Levine) writes:
>> godfrey@vxdesy.desy.de writes:

>>>In my view the Germans forfeited their right to their country (a homeland, if
>>>you like) by their actions during the first and second WW's, particularly the
>>>latter.  As I have said before, it was a mistake to allow the German nation
>>>to continue after WW2 and a mistake to allow the recent reunification.  I can
>>>only hope that after the next example of the Germans' attempts to subject the
>>>rest of the world to what they see as their superiority (inevitable in my
>>>view) that the same mistake will not be made once again.

>> You say such *interesting* things around the full of the moon!

>The moon is not full in my latitude at the present time

Neither is the deck you're playing with, evidently.  

You *still* haven't figured out that the virtual genocide you dream of
would not have reflected well on the rest of the world.  In fact, you 
don't seem to understand that the rise of Hitler was made possible by 
punitive measures after WW I that had some resemblance to the things 
you said should ahve been done after WW II.  

Now, just what should have been done instead of the recent unification?
Perhaps the E. Germans should have been left to their own devices, to
form a fascist government without the guidance of the West.  Yeah, that's
the ticket.  

Now, as long as you refer to "what [the Germans] see as their superiority"
and inevitable future events, how about telling us how you know this --
it's mostly horseshit -- and why you single out the Germans when so many
other countries are busy performing atrocities at this very moment.

Roger  

>Laurence


Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
From: thf2@ellis.uchicago.edu (Ted Frank)
Subject: Re: A self-confessed silly thread: Jewi
Reply-To: thf2@midway.uchicago.edu
Organization: University of Chicago
Date: Mon, 4 Jan 1993 20:40:48 GMT

In article <1993Jan4.154010.11538@bony1.bony.com> billg@bony1.bony.com (Bill Gripp) writes:
>In article <1993Jan3.180358.23568@midway.uchicago.edu> thf2@midway.uchicago.edu writes:
>>In article <1993Jan3.161302.22994@galileo.cc.rochester.edu> kahn@troi.cc.rochester.edu (James Kahn) writes:
>>>In article <1473600019@igc.apc.org> sdubin@igc.apc.org (Stephen Dubin) writes:
>>>>Perhaps it is also appropriate to list people who, although they have
>>>>Jewish names; have a non-Jewish mother e.g. Howard Stern.
>>
>>Except that Howard Stern does have a Jewish mother, so he's still shanda.
>
>I have heard Howard on the radio say that his father is Jewish and that
>he is half Jewish (Stern's words not mine =B^] ).  So then how is his
>mother Jewish?

He lied.  
-- 
ted frank                     | thf2@ellis.uchicago.edu 
standard disclaimers          | void where prohibited
the university of chicago law school, chicago, illinois 60637
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
From: strnlght@netcom.com (David Sternlight)
Subject: Re: Feld brothers update
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services (408 241-9760 guest)
Date: Wed, 6 Jan 1993 19:43:15 GMT


I'm going to go way out on a limb here, but after reading all the
traffic, particularly the non-response responses, the anonymous
letters cited as support, the inconsistencies in the accounts of those
purporting to have first-hand knowledge, and the outrageous and
totally illegal (in California) solicitation of funds to be sent to a
California bank account, I predict this will become known as the
Famous Feld Fraud.

For those outside California, State Law requires such a solicitation
to be accompanied by a (for example) Los Angeles Department of Social
Services registration card, and penalties for failure or fraud
are severe. That the solicitation does not include such a registration
notification suggests a scam of the first water.

If the Feld partisans wish to raise funds they must register, and
subject themselves to investigation by the authorities.

For details, consult Rabbi Levin--Chabad is well familiar with this
procedure.

David
-- 
David Sternlight
RIPEM Public Key on server  --  Consider it an envelope for your e-mail

Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
From: jfox@vms.macc.wisc.edu
Subject: Re: Orthadox Judaism and women
Organization:  University of Wisconsin Academic Computing Center
Distribution:  world
Date: 12 JAN 93 08:16:33    

Did Chazal teach anything about being "philosophical" about someone
else's misery? 
In article <1993Jan12.002211.8279@netcom.com>, horen@netcom.com (Jonathan B. Horen -- [408] 736-3923) writes...
> 
>I remember 14 years ago, when I lived in Boro Park (Brooklyn), and
>had the rare opportunity to work with an Orthodox man who was in
>the (ultimately successful) process of blackmailing his wife and
>her family for a *huge* sum of money, in order to give a Get. He
>was a pig, but then we must be philosophical about it.
> 
>As Chazal teach we are a Tzibur (community) and a tzibur is composed
>of Tziddikim, Banoniyim, and Rashayim. We need all of them, if only
>to help us distinguish one from the other. 
> 
>Perhaps someone would like to add some Torah flavor to this topic,
>and explain why, although "writing a sefer kritut (Get)" is a
>positive mitzvah, there is no brocha associated with it?
> 
>"Od yeshama b'harey Yehuda uv'chutzot Yerushalayim,
>Kol sasson v'kol simcha, kol chatan v'kol kalla."
> 
> 
> 
>-- 
>Jonathan B. Horen       | A man should not strive to eliminate his complexes,
>SysAdmin/SrTechWriter   | but to get in accord with them; they are 
>Tel: (408) 736-3923     | legitimately what directs his conduct in the world.
>Email: horen@netcom.com |                     -- Sigmund Freud
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish,soc.culture.german
From: fr@compu.com (Fred Rump from home)
Subject: Re: Jews For Germans
Organization: CompuData Inc.
Date: Sun, 10 Jan 1993 19:14:22 GMT

godfrey@vxdesy.desy.de writes:

>I never suggested anything of the sort - I simply said that Germany should
>have ceased to exist - the people would have been absorbed into other
>neighbouring countries or stayed where they were but become French, Russian,
>Polish, Czech etc.

Well the Morgenthau plan would have been perfect for you. Sadly much of what 
you propose really happened in Russian, Polish and Czech lands of today. The 
people simply ceased to exist. They were exterminated. 

You really are one great person right in the line with the worst of humanity.

fred
-- 
W. Fred Rump 	office:	   fred@COMPU.COM     'mans feet have grown/so big 
26 Warren St.   home: fred@icdi10.compu.com  that he/forgets his littleness'
Beverly, NJ. 08010                          		Don Marquis 
609-386-6846    bang:uunet!cdin-1!icdi10!fr   
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
From: chr04ha@vmsa.technion.ac.il
Subject: Re: kosher question(Correction of typo)
Organization: Technion, Israel Institute of Technology
Date: Thu, 7 Jan 1993 11:00:43 GMT

In article <1993Jan7.125004.1@vmsa.technion.ac.il>, 
chr04ha@vmsa.technion.ac.il writes:

> This dispute between  Rav and Abbayei (one of very many) can be found 
> in Sanhedrin 27a.
Sorry for the typo. Rava, not Rav. The latter was an equally distinguished 
sage who lived three generations befor Rava and Abbayei. His principal 
adversary was Shmuel.
Amiati
 *---------------------------------------------------------------*
 | E.A. Halevi, Department of Chemistry, Technion - I.I.T.       |     
 | "Mipnei seiva takum, vehadarta pnei zaken" - Leviticus 19, 32 |
 *---------------------------------------------------------------*
Xref: sparky soc.culture.jewish:24598 talk.politics.mideast:24766
From: dfs@doe.carleton.ca (David F. Skoll)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish,talk.politics.mideast
Subject: POLITICS: Re: WHERE DO THE "palestinians" COME FROM?
Date: 6 Jan 93 00:02:01 GMT
Followup-To: talk.politics.mideast
Organization: Dept. of Electronics, Carleton University

In <1ibicfINNpne@manuel.anu.edu.au> bdm@cs.anu.edu.au (Brendan McKay) writes:

>For me, someone who acquired land by fair means
>a few generations ago, even if they had just moved from another 
>place, has a right of occupancy which completely overwhelms that
>of someone else who merely belongs to a group whose "ancestors"
>(i.e., that fraction, perhaps small, of those ancestors thousands 
>of years earlier with whom they have decided to identify) were
>unjustly disenherited.

That applies to the majority of Israelis, and in "a few generations",
it will to all Israelis.  It's the only pragmatic solution to the
mideast crisis.  Trying to undo all real or imagined wrongs from the
past will lead to endless conflict.

--
                     |         | "Step up and shake the hand
David F. Skoll       | ||||||| |  Of someone you can't stand,
|_ _ _  __   __ _ __ |  \\V//  |  You can tolerate him if you try..."
 / |  | |_|   | |  | |  __|__  |  -- Tom Lehrer, "National Brotherhood Week"
_____|________________________________________________________________________
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
From: warren@nysernet.org (Warren Burstein)
Subject: Re: Can mohels circumcize non-Jews?
Organization: NYSERNet, Inc.
Date: Fri, 8 Jan 1993 15:19:18 GMT


I don't know why there would be any problem for a mohel to circumcize
a non-Jew.  It would be inappropriate to perform the ceremonies that
are performed at a brit, but the procedure itself, I don't see why
not.
-- 
/|/-\/-\          adif tzav pinui		still in Jerusalem
 |__/__/_/        metzav shmoneh		just telnetting to NY
 |warren@         
/ nysernet.org    
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
From: tjm@hrt213.brooks.af.mil (Tim Miller)
Subject: Re: God's Hyphen
Organization: AL/HRTI, Brooks AFB
Date: Mon, 4 Jan 1993 19:24:12 GMT

On 3 Jan 1993 17:35:01 -0600, yaffe@pendragon.ICD.Teradyne.COM (Arthur G. Yaffe) said:

A> 					 We can't expect everyone
A> to understand that when you write "HaShem" they should pronounce 
A> "adonoi".  

	Well, when I write "HaShem" I expect people to *pronounce*
"HaShem."  If I were to write otherwise, what they pronounce is up to
them. 

A>		That's too much to ask.

	All they have to do is ask, and I'll explain clearly and
politely why I avoid pronouncing, writing, or otherwise using Names of
G-d. 

-- Cerebus <tjm@hrt213.brooks.af.mil>
"Pretty simple, actually.  If you don't know, ask why.  What a concept."
From: reid@metis.tti.com (Reid Kneeland)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
Subject: Re: Latkes (was Re: Ascii Chanukah symbols?)
Date: 30 Dec 92 19:54:44 GMT
Organization: Transaction Technology Inc.

In article <1992Dec30.172016.8720@speedy.aero.org> nadel@attatash.aero.org (Miriam Nadel) writes:
>In article <1992Dec30.135747.6499@linus.mitre.org> jclander@symphony.mitre.org (Julian C. Lander) writes:
>>|> Yuch!  Does anyone else eat latkes with sour cream?  I thought the only 
>>|> way to eat them was with apple sauce.

>>My family eats them with apple sauce, except for my stepfather, who prefers sour
>>cream.  My mother describes him as being from New York (we're all from
>>Boston).
>>Jews from New York [...] eat funny bagels [...] soft and fat.  I like
>>thin, hard ones.)

>I consider apple sauce completely repulsive in general, though nobody
>else in my family does, but we never ate latkes with it.  We very rarely
>ate latkes with sour cream, usually only if they were being served as a 
>second course after borscht.  We ate them sprinkled with sugar.  I've
>never run into anyone else who does this outside of my family and some old
>family friends so it may be unique to people from Kovno, Lithuania.  

I always had them with either applesauce or sour cream.  They both seem
to be very common.  If you like to pretend you're a Russian aristocrat,
latkes are great with sour cream and caviar (is black caviar kosher?).
I've heard of using jam, jelly and honey, but I haven't seen it done.

>And New York bagels are *not* soft.  They're thick, yes, but proper ones
>are chewy.  In fact, proper ones are considered suitable for use as
>teething rings for infants.

Or bushings in truck suspensions.

=====================================================================
Reid Kneeland
reid@tti.com  (that's MISTER reid@tti.com to you!)
Transaction Technology Inc., Santa Monica, CA, USA (310) 450-9111 x2499
The opinions expressed above do not necessarily etc etc...

Never trust a man who can count to 1,023 on his fingers.
From: sutin@ra.UCSC.EDU (Brian Sutin)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
Subject: Re: Jews For Germans
Date: 8 Jan 93 03:50:43 GMT
Organization: Lick Observatory UCSC
NNTP-Posting-Host: ra.ucsc.edu

In article <93007.221749PC2370A@auvm.american.edu> Peter M. Cohen <PC2370A@auvm.american.edu> writes:
-In article <1ii3efINNba6@darkstar.UCSC.EDU>, sutin@ra.UCSC.EDU (Brian Sutin)
-says:
->
->In article <93007.143346PC2370A@auvm.american.edu> PC2370A@auvm.american.edu
->(Peter M. Cohen) writes:
->-[...]
->-To the German people I owe an apology.  Not all Germans were Nazis.  AS for  e
->th
->-Arabs, after speaking to some Lebanese and Palistinians who are living here
->in
->-the US Ive come to realize that many Arabs oppose the PLO and Hamas but can  t
->no
->-act because of the threat of retaliation against them.  This is similar to
->the
->-attitude of those Germans who opposed Hitlers policies but were powerless to o
->d
->-anything about it.  I have finally come to the conclusion that both Jews and
->-the Palistinians deserve a homeland.
->
->-P. Cohen  pc2370a@auvm.american.edu
->
->This brings some questions to mind:
->
->1) Does this imply that the Germans deserve a homeland?
->
->2) If five boy scouts help old ladies across the street, does this imply
->   that Americans deserve a homeland?
->
->If I had to wrap up my view, I would say that individual Germans are
->wonderful, but as a group they suck.
->
-At first I wasn't going to entertain this response to my posting but the
-shear rediculousness of it forces me to.  In answer to question 1; yes, the
-Germans deserve and have a homeland.  I'm afraid I don't understand your
-question number 2; what are you implying ??  Are you actually attempting to
-use logic ? If so, your reasoning escapes me...
-
-------------------------------------------------
-Peter Cohen         pc2370a@auvm.american.edu
-------------------------------------------------

Your posting, as I read it, stated the following:

A) Not all Germans were evil (ie, supported killing Jews during WWII).
B) Not all Arabs are evil( ie, actively support PLO, Hamas, etc).

Then you conclude (I quote):

-> I have finally come to the conclusion that both Jews and the Palistinians
-> deserve a homeland.

Since this is a conclusion, I added the following:

C) (obvious) Not all Jews are evil (ie, support PLO, are Nazis).

and got:

D) All groups who have members which are not evil (ie, nasty to Jews)
   deserve a homeland.

This is your logic, no?  How else can you chain together A and B to get
your conclusion?

Brian Sutin				sutin@lick.ucsc.edu
Lick Observatory, UCSC			Santa Cruz, CA 95064
    Fred:   "May I rescue you?"
    Ginger: "No, thank you.  I prefer being in distress."