HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: edp@bsdbld.zk3.dec.com (Eric Postpischil)
Subject: Re: Howard Stern
Reply-To: edp@bsdbld.zk3.dec.com (Eric Postpischil)
Organization: Digital Equipment Corporation
Date: Mon, 28 Dec 1992 13:11:24 GMT

In article <92358.142002FDMWINK@UCF1VM.BITNET>, FDMWINK@UCF1VM.BITNET writes:

>And equal access is the key.  Since the electromagnetic spectrum can only
>(given the current technology) be cut into so many piece, the Federal
>government has asserted its _responsibility_ to regulate the "air waves" as
>a public trust.

The electromagnetic spectrum in my region of the country is nowhere near
full; there's room for plenty more broadcasters.  Is it full in the area
where the complaint against Stern was made?  Is it full (in the
frequencies assigned to commercial radio and television) anywhere in the
country?  If the spectrum was not full, then the government cannot claim
that any person's ability to speak was limited by the availability of
bandwidth, and the argument that the government has to arbitrate who can
speak and/or what they can say is bogus.

>I would appreciate some examples of the "ideas" that Howard is
>being prevented from discussing "on the air."  IMNSHO Howard's basic
>problem is a lack of an adequate vocabulary.

The objected-to statements were posted here; check your newsreader.  I
saw no words that would be labeled obscene; it was the ideas that were
penalized.  (I think "masturbated" was the worst word used.)


                                -- edp (Eric Postpischil)
                                "Always mount a scratch monkey."
                                edp@rusure.enet.dec.com
Newsgroups: rec.org.mensa
From: skh4161@mvs.draper.com (Kjeld Hvatum)
Subject: Re: Re: Howard Stern
Organization: Draper Laboratory
Date: Tue, 29 Dec 1992 09:28:00 GMT


>From: Eric Postpischil <edp@bsdbld.zk3.dec.com>
>Message-ID: <1992Dec28.131124.12759@nntpd.lkg.dec.com>
>
>In article <92358.142002FDMWINK@UCF1VM.BITNET>, FDMWINK@UCF1VM.BITNET writes:
>
>>And equal access is the key.  Since the electromagnetic spectrum can only
>>(given the current technology) be cut into so many piece, the Federal
>>government has asserted its _responsibility_ to regulate the "air waves" as
>>a public trust.
>
>The electromagnetic spectrum in my region of the country is nowhere near
>full; there's room for plenty more broadcasters.                       a

In general, the traditional broadcast spectrum is full.  It may be
"fuller" in your part of the country than you think.
For example, the fact that your TV doesn't pick up a strong station on
every channel is not sufficient to say the spectrum in your area isn't
full because, by law, you can't have transmitters on adjacent
TV frequencies in the same area (practical TV filters don't have
sufficiently sharp frequency drop-offs to reject an adjacent channel).
In other words, in any city, almost half of the channels will show
nothing but snow with a modest antenna.  There are exceptions because
some adjacent channels are not frequency-adjacent.

There are a number of other reasons for frequencies to be controlled
even when the spectrum appears to be clear to the casual observer,
including reasons involving technical and national interests.
From: herzog@ux5.lbl.gov (Hanan M. Herzog)
Newsgroups: rec.org.mensa
Subject: Re: IQ Test?
Date: 31 Dec 1992 08:35:03 GMT
Organization: Lawrence Berkeley Laboratory
Reply-To: herzog@ux5.lbl.gov (Hanan M. Herzog)
NNTP-Posting-Host: ux5.lbl.gov

In article <01GSXMV9SKC6ADDCVB@ccfvx3.draper.com> skh4161@mvs.draper.com (Kjeld Hvatum) writes:

[much stuff deleted]

>
>There are many IQ tests designed for adults.  However, for most people,
>a reasonable estimate can be made from SAT or GRE scores.

For whom are SAT or GRE an scores unreasonable estimate of IQ?  Is
there a minimum GPA which is a reasonable requirement for the use of
SAT score estimation of IQ? For exmaple, would it be fare to judge the
SAT score of someone who performed poorly in high school (and learned
little) against the SAT score of an 'A' student for the assesment of
IQ? Will the student with the higher IQ always have higher SAT scores?

--
Hanan Herzog
Physics Division
Lawrence Berkeley Lab
Newsgroups: rec.org.mensa
From: gmark@cbnewse.cb.att.com (gilbert.m.stewart)
Subject: Re: Howard Stern
Organization: AT&T
Date: Mon, 28 Dec 1992 23:56:21 GMT

In article <1992Dec28.131124.12759@nntpd.lkg.dec.com> edp@bsdbld.zk3.dec.com (Eric Postpischil) writes:
>In article <92358.142002FDMWINK@UCF1VM.BITNET>, FDMWINK@UCF1VM.BITNET writes:
>
>>And equal access is the key.  Since the electromagnetic spectrum can only
>>(given the current technology) be cut into so many piece, the Federal
>>government has asserted its _responsibility_ to regulate the "air waves" as
>>a public trust.
>
>The electromagnetic spectrum in my region of the country is nowhere near
>full; there's room for plenty more broadcasters.  Is it full in the area
>where the complaint against Stern was made?  Is it full (in the
>frequencies assigned to commercial radio and television) anywhere in the
>country?  If the spectrum was not full, then the government cannot claim
>that any person's ability to speak was limited by the availability of
>bandwidth, and the argument that the government has to arbitrate who can
>speak and/or what they can say is bogus.

This is true.  As a caveat, however, I must add that the purpose of the
FCC was to prevent interference between stations, so that even if the
airwaves were not "full", the idea was that someone could still interfere
with other signals.
>
>>I would appreciate some examples of the "ideas" that Howard is
>>being prevented from discussing "on the air."  IMNSHO Howard's basic
>>problem is a lack of an adequate vocabulary.
>
>The objected-to statements were posted here; check your newsreader.  I
>saw no words that would be labeled obscene; it was the ideas that were
>penalized.  (I think "masturbated" was the worst word used.)

And due to this, I can only conclude that some people with all too much
free time sit around their radios and plan to be "offended".  Which is
quite the fad, nowadays.  Sometimes I think the world is populated by
people who didn't get nearly enough parental discipline early in life,
and not nearly enough work to do later.

GM("Whose Smile is an Insufficient Umbrella")S
Organization: University of Central Florida--Computer Services
Date: Wednesday, 23 Dec 1992 14:20:01 EST
From: <FDMWINK@UCF1VM.BITNET>
Newsgroups: rec.org.mensa
Subject: Re: Howard Stern


gmark@cbnewse.cb.att.com (gilbert.m.stewart) writes:

>In any event, it is my opinion that the FCC has no business concerning
>themselves with content.  I may be insulted or angered by what is said,
>but I don't see the difference between freedom of speech in the park
>and freedom of speech on the radio.

Well, let me help you out there, Gilbert.  Howard and I (and you also) have
equal, unfettered access to the park but not to the radio (or TV).  Howard
and I have the right to freely express ourselves in the park or, if we have
the urge, buy a printing press (or equivalent) and freely make fools our
ourselves at our leisure.  Why, if we lucky enough to know it exists and
how to use it, we can plug into the Internet and have a ball with Usenet
newsgroups,or Fidonet echoes, or whatever.  But, while Howard can get his
jollies on the radio or TV, I (and presumably you also) do not have equal
access.

And equal access is the key.  Since the electromagnetic spectrum can only
(given the current technology) be cut into so many piece, the Federal
government has asserted its _responsibility_ to regulate the "air waves" as
a public trust.  (I believe this is done under the Interstate Commerce
clause of the Constitution and has been upheld by the Supreme Court.)  So
contrary to your statement that the FCC has no business regulating the "air
waves", they, in fact, have a responsibility to do so.

You also seem to be implying (you did use the word "content") that the FCC
is attempting to censor the "ideas" (used loosely here) that Howard is
presenting.  I would appreciate some examples of the "ideas" that Howard is
being prevented from discussing "on the air."  IMNSHO Howard's basic
problem is a lack of an adequate vocabulary.  I would be happy to support
Howard's right to express any "idea" he may wish to express but I have no
desire (or responsibility) to support his lack of a proper education.

Howard (or rather the people who employ him) have $$money$$ with which they
lease the right to use certain frequencies.  They do this to make more
$$money$$.  They believe, and they very well may be right, that the best
way to achieve this is to play to the lowest common denominator in our
society.    Personally, Howard does not offend me - he bores me.  It is
simply a shame when people confuse greed with freedom.

P.S.  I knew and respected both Mario Savio and Lenny Bruce, Howard Stern
is neither.

 --Larry Wink
 Internet: fdmwink@ucf1vm.cc.ucf.edu <or> ljw@pro-magic.oau.org
 Bitnet: fdmwink@ucf1vm     Usenet: bbs-phaedrus@jwt.UUCP     GEnie: l.wink
    "Liberty means responsibility.  That is why most men dread it."
                                     -  George Bernard Shaw
From: jesse@picasso.ocis.temple.edu (Jesse Davis)
Newsgroups: rec.org.mensa
Subject: Re: IQ Test?
Date: 3 Jan 93 15:54:18 GMT
Organization: Temple University
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1 PL8]

: >>>There are many IQ tests designed for adults.  However, for most people,
: >>>a reasonable estimate can be made from SAT or GRE scores.
     
Hmm...are SAT's sufficient for Mensa membership? I've yet to apply for
membership due in part to lack of $ to take a more standard IQ test.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Well, you may see me tonight with an illegal smile |    Jesse Davis     |
 It don't cost very much but it lasts a long while  |jesse@picasso.ocis. |
 Oh please tell the man I didn't kill anyone,       |       temple.edu   |
 Well I'm just trying to have me some fun."--J Prine|     215-545-3724   |
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
Newsgroups: rec.org.mensa
From: ehp@poe.acc.Virginia.EDU ("Didi Pancake")
Subject: Re: Favorite Beverages
Organization: University of Virginia
Date: Wed, 23 Dec 1992 14:31:53 GMT


Cold water

Tea, Assam, hot

That quintessentially Region 2 potion called "Roadkill"

Dos Equis beer with Mexican food

--
|   Didi Pancake          |    Managing professionals                  |
|   ehp@virginia.edu      |                  is like herding cats!     |
|----------------------------------------------------------------------|
| All the usual disclaimers about the origins of these opinions apply. |
From: ken@nate.UUCP (Ken Gacioch)
Newsgroups: rec.org.mensa
Subject: Re: Mensa abroad--Germny?
Date: 31 Dec 92 17:14:56 GMT
Reply-To: nate!ken@cs.rit.edu
Organization: HealthChex, Inc.

In article <C04Mq4.5FK.1@cs.cmu.edu> dell+@cs.cmu.edu (Dellera) writes:
>I have been living abroad for a while, and am interested in re-joining
>Mensa.  Does anybody know if the group is active in Germany?  I don't 
>have an up-to-date directory with names and addresses of international 
>group contacts.
>
>I'd welcome mail (for the next week or so--home for christmas) from anyone
>with thoughts or experience to share about Mensa abroad. 
>
>--Kim Dellera
>  (dell@koz.garnet.cs.cmu.edu)

From the International Mensa Directory in the September 192 Mensa Bulletin
(No. 359):
Germany:
  Hans Lippmann, Chairman MinD
  Kapuzinerstr 7
  8390 Passau 12
  Germany
  (49) 851 2510    FAX: (49) 851 31532

   +----------------------------------------------------------------------+
   |   Ken Gacioch                    |     Be wary of strong drink.      |
   |   nate!ken@cs.rit.edu            |     It can make you shoot at      |
   |                                  |     tax collectors -- and miss.   |
   |                                  |                 - Lazarus Long    |
   +----------------------------------------------------------------------+
From: nicolas@stam.nl (Nico Veenkamp)
Newsgroups: rec.org.mensa
Subject: A Question of Intelligence
Date: 30 Dec 92 17:16:28 GMT
Organization: Stam Tijdschriften bv, Rijswijk, The Netherlands

The january 11th, 1993 issue of Fortune has a review of the book A 
Question of Intelligence : the IQ debate in America by Daniel Seligman. 
The reviewer is very positive about this book. But reading the review 
left me with some questions. 

Reading a raving review in a magazine of a book written by a columnist of 
 that same magazine always makes me suspicious. But because we talk about 
Fortune here I shouldn't be. 

Anyone read this book? Comments?


      *================================================================*
      |  Nico Veenkamp	        | You write, we publish                |
      |  Stam Tijdschriften bv  | -------------------------------------|
      |  P.O. Box 235           | Internet : nicolas@stam.nl           |
      |  2280 AE  Rijswijk      | FidoNet  : 2:281/1.7                 |
      |  The Netherlands        | BIX      : nicolas                   |
      *================================================================*
Newsgroups: rec.org.mensa,soc.culture.jewish,alt.atheism
From: tedwards@eng.umd.edu (Thomas Grant Edwards)
Subject: Re: Atheism and Intelligence
Date: Sat, 26 Dec 92 09:25:45 GMT
Organization: Project GLUE, University of Maryland, College Park

In article <o7H2VB2w165w@iowegia.uucp> quest@iowegia.uucp (Steve J. Quest) writes:
>        I stand on my own in this world, but do require the 
>support of other fellow humans- not deities.  I am an atheist, and 
>I am in a great minority.

I'd like to add that there is nothing wrong with developing 
a sense of spirituality while remaining an atheist.  I enjoy
Wiccan circles, catholic masses, technopagan rituals, etc.
I know the spirituality I experience is metaphorical and
not part of the reality which science reveals.

I used to be a very "violent atheist," being totally 
unaccepting of any kind of spirituality as "stupid."
I found that this stance really began to dehumanize me.

I realize now that like the illusion of love, the illusion of
spirituality is a key part of our humanity, and I revel in it,
but continue to keep touch with reality.

-Thomas

Newsgroups: rec.org.mensa,soc.culture.jewish,alt.atheism,alt.slack
From: ethridge@bnr.ca (Allen Ethridge)
Subject: Re: Re^4: Atheism and Intelligence
Organization: Bell-Northern Research, Richardson, Tx.
Date: Tue, 29 Dec 1992 17:18:48 GMT

In article <1992Dec29.152100.10744@cbfsb.cb.att.com> hem@col400.att.com (Hillel E. Markowitz) writes:
>
>Note: this response was to the posting on soc.culture.jewish and
>is from that viewpoint.
>
And this response is to the posting on alt.atheism.

>
>No.  There is a story of someone who came to his Rabbi and said
>that after 20 years of study he had come to the conclusion that
>he was an "apikorus" (heretic).  The Rabbi answered that he did
>not know enough to reach the status of an "apikorus" and he
>should study more if he hoped to reach that level.  The example
>of an apikorus in the Talmud is Elishah Ben Avuya (aka Acher) who
>was considered one of the four in his generation who had reached
>the level of "pardes" along with Rabbi Akiva.
>
>Besides, you may have read a little (call it "some study") but
>you haven't shown the "insight" (at least in this series of
>posts) and you haven't had a "good teacher".  Note that the first
>element of the three you mention is impossible without the last
>element.  That is why there are areas of study that are limited
>to one on one teaching.
>
A while back someone mentioned that there was an interesting discussion
on atheism in one of the Jewish newsgroups.  I went over there only to find
that most of the discussion was simply attacking Maddi Hausmann (sp?) for
turning to atheism.  Now this same discussion appears here, against someone
else.

All you're saying is that someone who doesn't dedicate their life to studying
Judaism can't know enough about it to reject it.  Do you know what nonsense
this is?  Christians have a similar argument - if you really accepted Jesus
into your heart you wouldn't have turned away, so you really didn't accept
him.  You should come back and do it right this time.

>> 
>>Sheesh.
>>
>>Mitch Silverman                    | As Voltaire never said, "I
>>Student, New College of            | disagree with what you say,
>>the University of South Florida    | but will defend to the death
>>mitch@cfraix.cfr.usf.edu           | your right to say it."
>
I have to agree with Mitch - "sheesh."  Do you know what arrogance and conceit
it takes to judge what someone else holds in their mind and heart, especially
over the net, when they make as difficult a decision as turning to atheism?

What insecurity about their religious beliefs causes believers to be unable
to accept that someone might reject their religion?  Is this a basic part of
religions, to make followers afraid of people who hold other beliefs?

>
>-- 
>____________________________________________________
>| Hillel Markowitz    |     Im ain ani li mi li    |
>| H_Markowitz@att.com | Veahavta Leraiecha Kamocha |
>|_____________________|____________________________|
From: Clive.Jones@f14.n7101.z5.fidonet.org (Clive Jones)
Newsgroups: rec.org.mensa
Subject: Favorite Beverages
Date: 21 Dec 92 16:59:00 GMT
Organization: FidoNet node 5:7101/14 - C.A.L.M. BBS, Alberton RSA

Hi Chris,

 > To get off the other subjects:
 > Hot herbal tea

Don't need the assistance

 > Hot apple cider with cinammon
 > Hot cocoa with real whipping cream
 > Cold spring water, no ice, with a twist of lemon or lime

This one is interesting, can't stand the over chlorinated stuff. Not even with my wee dram.

 > Cold apple cider, no ice
 > Cold grape juice, no ice

Try pairing these two and let me know what you think.

 > Cold cranberry juice with ice
 > Cold fruit juice (most types) mixed with carbonated spring water

Nah, I'll stick to my rum and coke heavy on the ice or a nice oyrish if the weather's a bit nippy.

Merry Christmas,
Clive Jones


--  
INTERNET: Clive.Jones@f14.n7101.z5.fidonet.org
via:  THE CATALYST BBS in Port Elizabeth, South Africa.
       (catpe.alt.za)   +27-41-34-1122 HST or +27-41-34-2859, V32bis & HST.
Newsgroups: rec.org.mensa
From: skh4161@mvs.draper.com (Kjeld Hvatum)
Subject: Re: mega society
Organization: Draper Laboratory
Date: Fri, 1 Jan 1993 17:53:00 GMT


>From: Eric Roberts <roberts@gaul.csd.uwo.ca>
>Message-Id: <9212312058.AA14153@gaul.csd.uwo.ca>
>
>One last question: where could I get LAIT?

The official address is:

   Polymath Systems
   PO Box 795
   Berkeley, CA 94701

Unfortunately, responses from this address are not always prompt, to say
the least.
From: skh4161@mvs.draper.com (Kjeld Hvatum)
Newsgroups: rec.org.mensa
Subject: Re: _Vidya_
Date: 21 Dec 92 16:06:00 GMT
Organization: Draper Laboratory


>From: John Cooley <jcooley@miracle.com>
>Message-ID: <23Nov92152227@miracle.com>
>
>...       I usually don't put much interest in the High IQ societies
>that obsess over High IQ.  The reason why I'm so involved in Mensa
>has very little to do with what scores people got on some test they
>took but more to do with the increadable calibur of people I've
>met through Mensa.

You assume there is a smaller percentage of people joining the
other societies for the same reason you do?  Does that mean you
associate your behavior with a lower IQ?  (Yes, I realize that's
a terribly obnoxious retort, and I mean it mostly as a humorous
tease!)

>Like Ken's post, I prefer the face to face social interaction with
>other Mensans; the higher IQ societies tend to not have by design
>enough critical mass to have lots of social gatherings.

Fair enough.
Newsgroups: rec.org.mensa,soc.culture.jewish,alt.atheism,alt.slack
From: dennis@alexia.lis.uiuc.edu (Thomas A. Dennis)
Subject: Re: Atheism and Intelligence
Organization: University of Illinois at Urbana
Date: Tue, 29 Dec 1992 15:10:07 GMT

In <e3JiwB2w165w@cybernet.cse.fau.edu> waldo@cybernet.cse.fau.edu (Todd J. 
Dicker) writes:

[deletia]

>But far beyond this, very little in the way of liturgy, custom, law 
>and tradition in Judaism can or should be taken at face value.  This is 
>apparantly what you seem to have done, and I find it a shame.  I see many 
>people who turn away from Judaism because they find the story of Noah and 
>the great flood or Sodom and Gemorrah too hard to believe, or they find 
>inconsistencies in the binding of Isaac.  Some study, some insight, and a 
>good teacher could help you to realize that there are social and 
>psychological~r meanings beyond the literal to these stories, and there 
>is room for advanced understanding of these stories.  

"Some study, some insight, and a good teacher" could also help you find the 
"social and psychological meanings" in Rorschach inkblots, Todd.  Simply 
because you can interpret (i.e. project meaning onto) a couple of tales of 
divine retribution does not give them any intrinsic value, any more than the 
joy that millions of Catholics find in an act of ritual cannibalism gives 
meaning to the Eucharist.

>There are benefits 
>to anthropomorphasizing God, even thought we don't see "Him" as a
>white bearded old man sitting on a throne.

Then what do you see Him/Her/It/Them as?
--
>---<

Tom Dennis                  | "I have seen all the works that are done
dennis@alexia.lis.uiuc.edu  |    under the sun; and, behold, all is 
(217)384-2504               |      vanity and vexation of spirit."
Newsgroups: rec.org.mensa
From: jlacey@cbnewsl.cb.att.com (james.w.lacey)
Subject: Re: Favorite Beverages
Organization: AT&T
Distribution: na
Date: Wed, 23 Dec 1992 15:18:14 GMT


Moxie

Kenya AA coffee (made with beans for the Coffee Connection)

Claushauler (sp?) na beer

Lowenbrau Alkoholfrei na beer - on draft (the good stuff from Germany)


-- 
     Jim Lacey  --  my own opinions    
     email:  att!cbnewsl!jlacey  or  jlacey@cbnewsl.cb.att.com
     D'ou venons-nous? Que sommes-nous? Ou allons-nous?
Newsgroups: rec.org.mensa
From: skh4161@mvs.draper.com (Kjeld Hvatum)
Subject: Re: The Mega Test
Organization: Draper Laboratory
Date: Mon, 21 Dec 1992 14:31:00 GMT


>From: "gilbert.m.stewart" <gmark@cbnewse.cb.att.com>
>Message-ID: <1992Dec16.183156.11557@cbnewse.cb.att.com>
>
>Call me forgetful or just not an OMNI fan, but am I to infer from this
>that another Omni article appeared with a test more recently than
>the one I took back around 1978-80?

Yes, the Mega Test appeared in the April 1985 issue, I believe,
and the Titan Test appeared in the April 1990 issue (please correct
me if I'm wrong).

>I was under the impression that
>that test (LAIT?) was no longer accepted.

It's still accepted.  It's just that, as you mention, it may take years
to get it scored.  The Mega and Titan tests are scored promptly.
Newsgroups: rec.org.mensa