HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
X-Envelope-to: politics@ohstvma.BITNET
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Newsgroups: bit.listserv.politics
Date:         Wed, 2 Sep 1992 19:45:00 EST
From:         ZIMMERJ@WABASH.BITNET
Subject:      Re: Nattering Nabobs

>From: the valley of the fuzz-tone guitar <SWEDE@DRYCAS.BITNET>

>There is a difference between being "objective" and being "balanced".
>"Balanced" implies that the statistical amount of verbiage in support of
>one side of an issue is more or less equal to the amount of verbiage on the
>other side of the issue.  When a part of the media does not balance it's
>verbiage, it becomes "unbalanced", or "biased".

>"Objective", on the other hand, implies that the media is reporting what
>appears to be the actual condition of events, regardless of the personal
>views of those doing the reporting.

True enough, assuming that you include in the definition of "objective" the
qualification that the material reported contains "just the facts" -- no
superfluous opinion.  I got the impression that you agree with this.

>This is certainly not intended to imply that the media is "objective" -
>liberal and conservative agendas tend to be pushed willy-nilly over the
>airwaves.  The point is that there is more to being "objective" than
>simply plopping conservative and liberal verbiage on the scales and seeing
>if they weigh the same.  While I'm skeptical as to whether the media has
>ever come close to being "objective" in recent decades, the pretense is
>certainly still there.  It's just that, in Bush's situation, where his
>negatives so outweigh his positives, there's not much point in trying to
>puff up his positives in a misguided attempt at "balance".

Its true that the media ought not to mindlessly "puff up" Bush's positives
(assuming he has any -- I'm not so sure).  However, I would maintain that the
media throw objectivity to the winds (and balance, too) by keeping Bush in a
catch-22 where everything he does is "wrong" in the eyes of the media.

For example, Bush was wrong for not sending help to Florida sooner.  Now, when
he proposes rebuilding a military base to maintain the local economy (and a few
other minor projects), he's "wrong" for capitalizing upon a disaster for
political gain.  He's damned if he does something and damned if he doesn't.
That type of coverage is neither objective nor balanced.

>The weird part is that it came from Newsweek, the nation's leading fluffy
>conservative advocacy journal, as opposed to Time, the nation's leading fluffy
>liberal advocacy journal.  Maybe the writers faxed the stories to the wrong
>magazines.

You and I must be reading different versions of Newsweek.

>Gary W. Olson

Jason
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Newsgroups: bit.listserv.politics
Date:         Mon, 31 Aug 1992 12:38:28 EDT
From:         todd pukanecz <CCCS@VTVM1.BITNET>
Subject:      Re: slowly for macphil

>1. Why are the majority of persons searched from minority groups?
>2. Why do these people have to prove that they didn't commit a crime to
>recover their property?

Not only are folks guilty-until-proven-innocent under this scenario, but
to retrieve their property takes a civil suit against the department
that confiscated the property.  Since it is a civil suit, public defenders
are not available for legal council.  Seizure of property in this way
is simply a means of funding police departments using taxpayer money,
one taxpayer at a time and the size of the tax is whatever the agent
decides to take.

>3. Is this a form of discrimination based on race ?
>
>Can I vote for Travis and Robert as co-winners of the current prize
>for list educationally challenged poster person?

That is a close race indeed.  And wouldn't the PC term be "rationally
disabled"?
    toddddddddd

=========== Wake up John Doe.  You're the hope of the world! ===========
--------     /^^\    ---- Todd Pukanecz ----   ----  CCCS@VTVM1  ----
-----      /      >   --- Ag. Econ. DPL --- "Of course he's guilty!
---  /\_ / @       \   -- Virginia Tech --   We don't investigate
-  /________________>   - Blacksburg VA -    innocent people!" -MEESE
From: psyrobtw@ubvmsb.cc.buffalo.edu (Robert Weiss)
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.politics
Subject: RE:Re: did i send the wrong stuff?
Date: 2 Sep 92 03:21:00 GMT
Organization: University at Buffalo
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41

In article <POLITICS%92090107302369@OHSTVMA.IRCC.OHIO-STATE.EDU>, HOUSSAH5@EGAUCACS.BITNET writes...
>Robert,
>        You didn't really have to repeat the contents of the personal
>message on the list. A yes/no kind of answer was enough.
>                                                Gilbert

Gilbert,

	You're right, of course.

	But I wasn't sure whether she was talking about *that* private 
post or the one about her collection of Michael Bolton 8x10 glossies.

=============================
Robert Weiss
psyrobtw@ubvms.cc.buffalo.edu
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Newsgroups: bit.listserv.politics
Date:         Tue, 25 Aug 1992 15:23:39 EDT
From:         Jamie <PL436000@BROWNVM.BITNET>
Subject:      Re: The City on the Hill

Er, hold on a sec....

>From:         KILBURN@WVSVAX.WVNET.EDU

>Maybe not.  On a short clip from a Quayle interview, he said something to
>the effect of "our first priority is to get the president re-elected.  Then
>we'll think about '94."

Did he say "94" or "96"?

Jamie
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Newsgroups: bit.listserv.politics
Date:         Sun, 30 Aug 1992 14:16:26 EST
From:         macphil <IQTI400@INDYCMS.IUPUI.EDU>
Subject:      Re: Fired for an abortion...
Comments: To: Forum for the Discussion of Politics <POLITICS@ucf1vm.cc.ucf.edu>

On Sun, 30 Aug 1992 15:02:00 EDT <TKIDD@CLEMSON> said:
>Was this suit filed in state or federal court??

I copied the article in its entirety...what you read is what there was.

------------------------------------------------------------------------
"The lesser of two evils is still evil." - Winston Churchill

MacPhil / iqti400@indycms.bitnet / iqti400@indycms.iupui.edu
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Newsgroups: bit.listserv.politics
Date:         Tue, 25 Aug 1992 13:59:09 CDT
From:         the annoying will inherit the earth <T9AA@SDSUMUS.BITNET>
Subject:      The City on the Hill

Sorry to tell y'all this, but according to Forbes (?), Sioux Falls,
South Dakota is the most livable city, aka the Shining City on the
Hill.  I'm going there today to get replacement glasses.

Dave
t9aa@sdsumus.bitnet
"Will the circle be unbroken?
 By the by and by the way
 Do you feel a strange desire? - To build a fire
 and burn the Hard Rock Cafe?"
-Farm Accident, including my record-pusher's brother-in-law
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Newsgroups: bit.listserv.politics
Date:         Fri, 28 Aug 1992 15:23:39 EST
From:         macphil <IQTI400@INDYCMS.IUPUI.EDU>
Subject:      Re: my last word on this EVER
Comments: To: Forum for the Discussion of Politics <POLITICS@ucf1vm.cc.ucf.edu>

On Fri, 28 Aug 1992 16:08:18 EDT jcs said:

>I have a better idea. Lets castrate men. well, not all men. just most of
>them. dumb ones go first, with a rusty old hack saw.

>jcs

I had no idea you were so compassionate.  I figured you would have
suggested letting a blind doctor use a butter knife or something...

------------------------------------------------------------------------
"The lesser of two evils is still evil." - Winston Churchill

MacPhil / iqti400@indycms.bitnet / iqti400@indycms.iupui.edu
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.politics
Date:         Tue, 25 Aug 1992 15:11:00 EDT
From:         "Carl A. Lahetta" <U952020@RUTADMIN.BITNET>
Subject:      Jamie's Response to my Deadly Force post

Jamie,
   Your response to my post was assinine.  I will repond to your dribble
in the very near future.

Carl-------+
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Newsgroups: bit.listserv.politics
Date:         Fri, 28 Aug 1992 16:29:30 EDT
From:         Jamie <PL436000@BROWNVM.BITNET>
Subject:      Re: my last word on this EVER

Oh, great. I knew we were in for trouble.
Can I get a reprieve on the grounds that I had already responded before
Jenna?
I'd hate to have to choose between MacPhil's butter knife and Jen's
hacksaw.
I guess I'll go with MacP. Surgical experience.

Jamie

Girding my loins, so to speak, and muttering under my breath
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Newsgroups: bit.listserv.politics
Date:         Mon, 31 Aug 1992 12:00:54 MST
From:         Roger <CARROLL@SCC.BITNET>
Subject:      I need a new TV

>I was watching one of the Sunday newstalk shows, and Dan Quayle was
>being interviewed.

I watched that interview also, even though my TV wasn't working quite right.
I kept turning up the brightness, but he kept saying the same things.

                                             ---roger

   Another in the series of topical Dan Quayle quotes...
   ..(thanks to Gary Stephens - Dublin City University, Ireland)

Target prices?  How that works?  I know quite a bit about farm policy.
I come from Indiana, which is a farm state. Deficiency payments -
which are the key - that is what gets money into the farmer's hands.
We got loan, uh, rates, we got target, uh, prices, uh, I have worked
very closely with my senior colleague, (Indiana Sen.) Richard Lugar,
making sure that the farmers of Indiana are taken care of.
        -- Vice President Dan Quayle on being asked to
                   define the term "target prices."
                   Quayle's press secretary then cut short the press
                   conference, after two minutes and 30 seconds.
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Newsgroups: bit.listserv.politics
Date:         Tue, 1 Sep 1992 10:37:55 EDT
From:         Jamie <PL436000@BROWNVM.BITNET>
Subject:      Re: Rape; violation, sex or whatever...

>From:         Kerry Stephenson <KSTE@PURCCVM.BITNET>

>Travis didn't say that rape isn't a violation; he was making a rhetorical
>point using rape and abortion as parallel situations in which to
>demonstrate situational ethics.

Not so.
He DID say that rape isn't a violation (well, strictly speaking
he said that he doesn't BELIEVE that rape is a violation).
He may have said that to make a rhetorical point.

If he thinks they are parallel situations, he should be willing
to defend the parallelism. But when I pointed out what follows
from the parallelism (for example, that women are not persons),
he backed off. Wisely.

Jamie
From: andy@SAIL.STANFORD.EDU (Andy Freeman)
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.politics
Subject: Re: an ounce of prevention, etc.
Date: 28 Aug 92 17:47:32 GMT
Organization: nope
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU

>It seems blatantly simple that the easiest way to reduce the number of
>abortions is to reduce the number of UNWANTED pregnancies.

That's either a tautology or arguably wrong; the difference depends on
when the pregnancies were unwanted.

Unless the pregnancies were unwanted BEFORE they occurred, voluntary
birth control can't help.  My experience is that wrt teens who have
access to free birth control and the relevant education, the ones who
get pregnant either want to or don't care.  (That's their claim, not
mine.)  Of course, this applies only to teens.  To the extent that
abortion is dominated by 20-30 year olds, it's irrelevant; they may be
different.

A person who isn't going to do something no matter what is a lousy
source for "if I was to do that, I'd do it because"; we know that
people who do do that are different.

-andy
--
UUCP:    {arpa gateways, sun, decwrl, uunet, rutgers}!cs.stanford.edu!andy
ARPA:    andy@cs.stanford.edu
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Newsgroups: bit.listserv.politics
Date:         Wed, 2 Sep 1992 08:15:45 CDT
From:         fred <CCHILDER@UNMCVM.BITNET>
Subject:      new topic: unrest in germany

The european members of the group often comment on lack of global issues
on this list and the concentration on US concerns. That is because, as
all europeans know, americans are self-centered and egotistical.

What is the story behind the recent outbreaks of violence in Germany?
What is their government doing to control the rioting? How long has this
been going on? Is it limited primarily to the under 30 crowd or are
other age groups involved.

Also, what do list members think about punishment for youth? I saw a
recent cbs news article that car theft is epidemic on the east coast and
that many of the perpatrators are under 14 years of age. The police see
the problem as being that the joy riders are immediately released with
no punishment for their actions. I would think that there are other
social considerations such as lack of youth activities.

fred
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Newsgroups: bit.listserv.politics
Date:         Fri, 28 Aug 1992 12:35:01 EDT
From:         K=A*T <MEC038@UKCC.UKY.EDU>
Subject:      Re: morals
              28 Aug 1992 12:06:43 -0400 from <SPRG0002@TULSAJC>

From:         SPRG0002@TULSAJC.BITNET

> Like it or not, homosexuality is perversion.  Homosexuals should never be
> allowed custody of a child. (are we becoming friends yet?)

So is anal sex, oral sex, masturbation -- according
to Robert -- so should we punish those who engage
in these activities.

How about atheists?  Should they be allowed to adopt children?

> ---Robert

--KAT
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Newsgroups: bit.listserv.politics
Date:         Fri, 4 Sep 1992 14:51:00 CDT
From:         fred <CCHILDER@UNMCVM.BITNET>
Subject:      who do you trust

At least Bill Clinton will admit that he avoided vietnam, and if evidence
surfaces that he had help, he will admit to that as well. There is some
evidence to support that ghwb knew that ollie north lied to congress and
that he knew about arms for hostages. Do you think he will ever admit to
this? How about admitting that he stonewalled prosecution of the savings
and loan scandal until after the '84 election?

Missy says to somebody "Your responses indicate that you would prefer 1/3
of the children of this generation dead (congratulations, you got your
wish)". What in the world are you talking about? Are you trying to say
that 1 in 3 potential births end in abortion?

Why is our government providing price supports for tobacco which is
recognized by the medical establishment as one of the most potent and
addictive drugs available? For those of you predisposed to the word of
god approach, isn't there something about all the herbs being created
for the use of man? For those of you worried about your children, they
are statistically far more likely to die from alcohol related accidents
than from aids or using any illegal drugs. Same goes for tobacco.
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Original_To:  BITNET%"POLITICS@OHSTVMA.BITNET"
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.politics
Date:         Fri, 4 Sep 1992 09:38:00 EST
From:         linda <SABOE@VUVAXCOM.BITNET>
Subject:      RE: speed, police, crime, hell

yup, piero, i agree that many of our traffic laws are oppressive. no one i know
ever drives 55 except after a drink or two to make sure they don't get stopped,
or if they're carrying "contraband" :).

there are parts of the country where these low speed limits are definitely a
hazard rather than safety measure. in new mexico as an example, there are long
stretches of highway, sometimes with hundreds of miles between towns. truckers
and other motorists complain bitterly that 55 is more than a nuisance. cops
usually situate themselves at the bottom of a hill to catch trucks and motorists
who allow the vehicle to pick up speed in order to maintain their speed for the
upward climb. the large trucks need to do this in order not to fall far below
speed limit.

my sister was stopped a while back in the wee hours of the morning after the
club where she worked closed (she worked for a rock & roll management firm
and was required to attend area clubs when their clients were performing-it was
a truly cool job).

anyway, she was going around 60 on a completely deserted
highway. a cop stopped her and asked her what her hurry was. she said, "but
officer, i was only going along with the flow of traffic".

well, he started laughing too hard to write up a ticket, so he just told her
to slow down and get the hell out of there. she was a little confused as to
what he was instructing her to do, but decided not to press her luck.

i drove into a speed trap last year about a block from my work. going 40 in a
25 mph zone. the ticket was over a $120. that's just a little less than my
monthly food budget. i cried. cop tore up ticket and told me to get lost.

oh well.

-linda
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Newsgroups: bit.listserv.politics
Date:         Thu, 3 Sep 1992 20:21:55 EST
From:         Kerry Stephenson <KSTE@PURCCVM.BITNET>
Subject:      Re: democratic platform

Regarding the health care issue:

The other day I caught bits and pieces of a speech by a Heritage Foundation
scholar to the National (or was it International?) Platform Committee
(I'm not kidding; that's really what it's called.  In a few weeks, they
are hosting Derek Humphry--they must be a diverse bunch, whoever they are.)
Anyway, this guy was talking about the consumer choice model, which the
inroduction person said was one of the three major models in health care
reform.  I didn't catch much of it, since I was trying to get my
landlady to *stop* talking to me on the phone at the time, but he said
something about Great Britain and giving back the money taken out of our
checks for health care and letting us pick who we want and providing
incentives for us to actually use the money for health care (instead of
something else, which we would be free to do if we wanted to.)  I'm hoping
to catch it on a re-run this weekend, but did anyone else happen to see
this?  Does anyone know anything about it?

Just wondering.

--Missy P 2 B
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU
From: jwales@silver.ucs.indiana.edu (jimmy donal wales)
Subject: Re: the war on personal liberties
Organization: Indiana University
Date: Mon, 31 Aug 1992 20:56:59 GMT

A very fine and very readable book on the topic of drug prohibition
is _The Economics of Prohibition_, by Mark Thornton.

Just in case anybody wants to actually make a decision based on
an education examination of the issue...

--Jimbo




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Newsgroups: bit.listserv.politics
Date:         Tue, 25 Aug 1992 13:28:59 EDT
From:         Evelyn Duncan <R3EJD@AKRONVM.BITNET>
Subject:      Re: 128 tax hikes
              25 Aug 1992 13:27:13 -0400 from <KILBURN@WVSVAX.WVNET.EDU>

Richard L. Strout of the Christian Science Monitor was the first TRB;
Michael Kinsley is the present one.  I think TRB really doesn't stand
for anything; Strout was trying to think of a title for the column and
came up with TRB.

Evelyn
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.politics
Date:         Thu, 3 Sep 1992 16:49:00 CDT
From:         Pam Leader <SYSPL@UOKMVSA.BITNET>
Subject: Re: Andy, Leader and maybe Dave on the Environment

This is no longer a discussion of the environment. I am sure that you
do not believe that protection/killing of animals is what
environmental protection is all about. There are people eating
contaminated fish, children developing brain tumors and leukemia from
exposure to toxic waste, increasing numbers of people every day are
getting sick from the air they breath, large areas of coastal waters
are being dessimated from oil spills and other contamination,
forests are dying from acid rain, whole countries are suffering from
famine because of soil degradation resulting from cutting down TREES,
solar radiation increases due to holeS in the ozone layer resulting
in skin cancer becoming as common as pimples,etc. etc. the list goes
on and on. If you want to narrow your discussion to protection of
animals that hunters like to kill, then please remove my name from
you subject line.
  Thank you, Leader
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Newsgroups: bit.listserv.politics
Date:         Fri, 4 Sep 1992 11:01:15 EDT
From:         Jamie <PL436000@BROWNVM.BITNET>
Subject:      The War Between the Jasons

>From:         ZIMMERJ@WABASH.BITNET

>Yeah, now I'm pretty sure that you're attacking a position which no one holds
>(other that, possibly, David Duke).  I'd like for you to produce some quotes
>from "many" conservatives which claim that homosexuals should be stripped of
>their constitutional rights such as free speech, freedom of assembly, the
>right to bear arms, the right to a trial by jury, or anything else.  My
>guess is that you won't be able to do so.

What, you didn't hear Pat Buchanan's keynote address in Houston?

You can go get Peter S's posting, the one that includes the whole
Buchanan speech.

>Of course, conservatives differ on how they would have the government treat
>gays.  Many conservatives of the libertarian variety actaully advocate the
>repeal of anti-sodomy laws and legal distinctions between gay and straight
>marriages.  I personally agree with them on the former issue and disagree on
>the later, but neither issue involves a "right," unless your definition of a
>right is extraordinarily broad.  In any case, its still not the cut-and-dry
>issue that you make it out to be.

The Constitution grants to all citizens the right of equal protection
of the law. If marriage laws discriminate against people of certain
sexual orientation, then those people are being denied their
constitutional rights.
It is precisely such a denial that you are explicitly favoring.

Jamie
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X-Envelope-to: POLITICS@OHSTVMA.BITNET
X-VMS-To: IN%"POLITICS@OHSTVMA"
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.politics
Date:         Wed, 2 Sep 1992 19:49:00 EST
From:         YONI@BROWNCOG.BITNET
Subject:      Collegiate Debating

I am interested in knowing whether anyone on the list is involved in collegiate
debating (policy,parliamentary,CEDA.) I was wondering because much of the
argument structure found in the list is that of policy debaters. It reminds
me of the days when I did policy--I miss those spreadin' days. Well, I was
just curious.
thanks
YONI@BROWNCOG
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Newsgroups: bit.listserv.politics
Date:         Tue, 25 Aug 1992 12:40:45 EST
From:         macphil <IQTI400@INDYCMS.IUPUI.EDU>
Subject:      Re: Deadly Force, We Need Help, Justice??
Comments: To: Forum for the Discussion of Politics <POLITICS@ucf1vm.cc.ucf.edu>

On Tue, 25 Aug 1992 12:55:00 EDT Carl A. Lahetta said:
>wrong doing from the wrong doers.  Even more silly is the issue that
>criminals can sue a homeowner if they trip on a rug.  This is absurd!  Is

Criminals nothing.  There are plenty of people who feel those who slip
& fall on your sidewalk after you shovel it should be sued.  Had you left
the snow & ice 'as is', they are slipping on an act of nature, but since
you interferred, you are responsible.

------------------------------------------------------------------------
"The lesser of two evils is still evil." - Winston Churchill

MacPhil / iqti400@indycms.bitnet / iqti400@indycms.iupui.edu
From: 92price@gw.wmich.edu
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.politics
Subject: Re: Logic Coup!
Date: 25 Aug 92 13:21:55 EST
Organization: Western Michigan University

Kerry Stephenson writes: 
> Don't you find it ironic that even though you don't think of the
> Christians on the list as important enough to listen to, we think
> of you as important enough to love anyway--and God thought you
> were important enough to die for?

Oooh, that skirts the edge of theology and conversion attempts.  The thing to
remember is that xians mean something different when they say "love" than what
you might think--a distortion, like "toughlove" or what Charles Mansion meant
by "love."
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Make love on drugs, not war on drugs!              |        Kai Alexis Price
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
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Newsgroups: bit.listserv.politics
Date:         Fri, 28 Aug 1992 14:54:24 EDT
From:         Denise <DENISEW@BROWNVM.BITNET>
Subject:      Re: Bus-ted

How many people have decided to vote for Clinton after reading some of
Sue Clark's postings?
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