HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.deaf-l
Date:         Tue, 10 Nov 1992 14:00:00 GMT
From:         Bosco Keown <keown@VNET.IBM.COM>
Subject:      deaf wish

Ref:  Joseph's posting  of Mon, 9 Nov 1992 16:21:11 EST

>It is just sad - very sad - that you continue to think that deafness is one
>of the causes of these problems and that deafness is an added burden to a
>person who has it, family, and society.  But, again, you have the right
>to think the way you want to think.  You have the right to set up your
>system of values to guide your thoughts and life.  I do likewise.  So...
>live and let live.
>
>                                        Joseph P. Riolo
>                                        <riolo@pica.army.mil>

The real sadness, Joseph, is in wishing for a *baby* to be
born deaf. You are talking about a *person*, by which I assume
you mean an *adult* who has overcome the burden of deafness.
However much you deny it, deafness *is* a burden. Moreover,
we all know that this burden can be overcome, even to the point
where it is no longer too much of a burden, but this is not
the point Lew is getting at. He is talking about a *baby* that
is just beginning life. There is a good chance that the child will
sail through life if it has perfect hearing and will be able to fit
into both the hearing and Deaf world. So why feel the need to confine
the child only to the Deaf world by wishing it is born deaf? It
makes absolutely no sense at all.

I can't think of a worse thought than for a parent to wish for
a deaf child. I'm sorry, but it absolutely, utterly sickens me that Deaf
people should be so selfish that they want to create children
that fit their own image and culture, to the exclusion of others.

I've rewritten this posting a copule of times...the originals
were unprintable, even in rot13. :-) But this topic is very sensitive,
and it does arouse a great deal of passion and anger in people.

Bosco.

Bosco Keown,
CICS/6000 Development,         | VNET     : KEOWN at WINVMC
IBM UK Laboratories, Ltd.,     | IBMIPNET : keown@harpo.hursley.ibm.com
Hursley Park,                  | Internet : keown@vnet.ibm.com
Winchester, England.           | BITNET   : KEOWN at VNET
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.deaf-l
Date:         Wed, 4 Nov 1992 19:20:38 EDT
From:         EGALE@KENTVM.BITNET
Subject:      Re: Missing or incomplete e-mail addresses
              4 Nov 1992 15:43:52 -0700 from <CAREY_B@CUBLDR.COLORADO.EDU>

Bryce wanted the complete e-mail node from kent, so here it is-

Kentvm.kent.edu

Got it?
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Date:         Tue, 10 Nov 1992 17:43:00 EST
From:         xxuucp@ATT.ATT.COM
Subject:      UUCP Mail

UUCP request att!D.attig79e8a43 to homxa!D.attig79e8a43
failed on system 'homxa'.
Reason for failure:
	remote system can't create temp file
	remote file system is low on free space
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Date:         Wed, 4 Nov 1992 18:11:18 -0500
Comments:     Warning -- RSCS tag indicates an origin of 11SRUST@GALLUA1
From:         "Scott A. Rust" <11SRUST@GALLUA.BITNET>
Subject:      Re: Telnet address at Gallaudet

>Scott,

>A question for you:

>Is Gallaudet University a private University or
>a public University ?

>Cynthia Clark


        Gallaudet is funded by Congress (and your local Vocational
Rehabilitation), so I assume it is considered a public university...
however, with it's limitations on who is admitted and the process by
which they are admitted, it seems like a private university. I believe
the deafness requirement is at least a 70-75 dB loss in the better ear,
unaided....that would exclude about 97% of the population, wouldn't you
think? Interestingly enough, one thing that is not required here is the
ability to perform at the college level academically. We seem to have
our entrance priorities backwards, huh?


        Please send followups to my address, if you would. I'm not a
member of Deaf-L.....

        Thanks,

        Scott
        11srust@gallua.gallaudet.edu
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.deaf-l
Date:         Fri, 6 Nov 1992 07:28:21 -0500
From:         Miriam Clifford <DMIMI@ECSVAX.BITNET>
Subject:      Re: chance in speechreading

Hey, Barry.  As something of a scientist (psychologist/educator, but let's
not start on that), I'm a believer in scientific method and use the
pric
(sorry) principles of science whenever possible.  But let's not confuse
scientific findings with truth.  They may or may not be, who knows.  Also
today's truth is sometimes tomorrows error.

dmimi@ecsvax.uncecs.edu  dmimi@ecsvax.bitnet
Miriam (Mimi) Clifford; 2535 Sevier St, Durham, NC 27705; 919-489-4821
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Newsgroups: bit.listserv.deaf-l
Date:         Wed, 4 Nov 1992 18:23:00 -0500
From:         Cynthia Clark <cclark@CNRI.RESTON.VA.US>
Subject:      RE: Telnet address at Gallaudet

Hi Scott,

Thank you for your answer.

1)  How can I get an account to get an access to
    the Gallaudet network ?

Cynthia


------- Forwarded Message

>Scott,

>A question for you:

>Is Gallaudet University a private University or
>a public University ?

>Cynthia Clark


	Gallaudet is funded by Congress (and your local Vocational
Rehabilitation), so I assume it is considered a public university...
however, with it's limitations on who is admitted and the process by
which they are admitted, it seems like a private university. I believe
the deafness requirement is at least a 70-75 dB loss in the better ear,
unaided....that would exclude about 97% of the population, wouldn't you
think? Interestingly enough, one thing that is not required here is the
ability to perform at the college level academically. We seem to have
our entrance priorities backwards, huh?


	Please send followups to my address, if you would. I'm not a
member of Deaf-L.....

	Thanks,

	Scott
	11srust@gallua.gallaudet.edu



------- End of Forwarded Message  --------------------



From:         "Scott A. Rust" <11SRUST%GALLUA.BITNET@pucc.princeton.edu>
Subject:      Re: Telnet address at Gallaudet
X-To:         deaf-l@siucvmb.bitnet
To:           Multiple recipients of list DEAF-L
 <DEAF-L%SIUCVMB.BITNET@pucc.princeton.edu>

In article <DEAF-L%92110316482721@SIUCVMB.BITNET>,         Roy Miller <GE0013@SI
   UCVMB.BITNET> writes:
> The TELNET address for Gallaudet University is GALLUA.GALLAUDET.EDU.
>
> -- Roy Miller
>    Creator and Owner of DEAF-L
>    (ge0013@siucvmb.siu.edu)
--

        That is the correct Telnet address for Gallaudet, however, we do not
have an FTP site here. The only way you can access the Gallaudet network is by
having an account here. If you don't have an account, don't waste your time.

        Scott

____________________

*****************************************************************************
* Scott A. Rust       *11srust@gallua.gallaudet.edu *  "A stupid person     *
* Gallaudet University *****************************     can do anything    *
* English Department   *This .sig has been shown to *     except think"     *
* Kendall Green        * cause cancer in laboratory *      -Bob Dobbs, Jr.  *
* Washington DC 20002  * rats. Use only as directed.*                       *
*****************************************************************************
                 "Why? Why, because I laugh."
                                             - Sherwood Anderson
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.deaf-l
Date:         Sat, 7 Nov 1992 12:38:53 -0800
From:         "(Jim Carnahan)" <ehs@SFSUVAX1.SFSU.EDU>
Subject:      More on decoders...

A good friend of mine who loves technical equipment (has a fancy tv, vcr,
stereo, etc.) and moved here from Hong Kong bought a decoder.

He bought it so he could understand English television better.  When
I first went to his house and saw it, I was surprised.  I explained to him
that my deaf friends used decoders and he had never heard of that before!

Interesting.

Jim Carnahan
ehs@sfsuvax1.sfsu.edu
From: IS30124@OTAGO.AC.NZ
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.deaf-l
Subject: Re: chance in lipreading
Date: 5 Nov 92 08:02:00 GMT
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X-Envelope-to: DEAF-L%SIUCVMB.BITNET@pucc.Princeton.EDU
X-VMS-To: IN%"DEAF-L%SIUCVMB.BITNET@pucc.Princeton.EDU"

I said:-
BK>  So, to use Lew Golan's argument that chance does not play a part in
BK>  lipreading success...

Lew Golan said:-
LG>     Whoa.
LG>     I was responding to Ishbel's comment that lipreading is "very
LG> chance-oriented." I said that this description was too extreme.
LG>     However, neither am I claiming the other extreme. I am not saying
LG> chance does not play a part.
LG>     While other factors have much more influence on the outcome than does
LG> chance, there is *some* chance involved.

Do you mean it's like the game hinges on the bounce of the [rugby] ball? :-)

I suppose it comes down to how much effect the various factors have on
lipreading success (as measured in how many sentences are understood). Remember
that I am interested in the % of profoundly deaf who can't lipread, not the %
of sentences understood by one or another deaf person.

That reminds me of something. There would be a hypothesis that the more
residual hearing someone has, the more effect the various factors has on
lipreading success. That is not to distract from the central (alternative)
hypothesis that the less residual hearing (and less aural feedback) there is
then the rate of lipreading success is lower. In loose terms, most profoundly
deaf people cannot lipread well.

For anyone who's confused, the null hypothesis is the hypothesis we try to
disprove in favour of an alternative hypothesis. In this case, the null
hypothesis is that there is no difference in lipreading success between, say
three groups of deaf people:- moderately, severly, profoundly.

Sorry if I am boring people with all the technical talk about lipreading
statistics!

Cheers,
Barry Kirkland.
IS30124@OTAGO.AC.NZ
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Newsgroups: bit.listserv.deaf-l
Date:         Tue, 10 Nov 1992 13:08:21 -0600
From:         /PN=MARVIN.MILLER/O=DEAFTEK/ADMD=TELEMAIL/C=US/@SPRINT.COM
Subject:      RE: Re:60 Minutes

 <"GGJC-5506-7764/36"*/PN=MARVIN.MILLER/O=DEAFTEK/ADMD=TELEMAIL/C=US/@sprint.com
 >

	Objective?!

	Puh-lease! Most doctors & so-called professioanls know abo
absolutely nothing about the Deaf culture and the community.
How can they claim they are making an objective decision?!
Based on a VERY limited information (other than medical info),
they are NOT making an objective decisions here at all.

You're correct in syaing that it is not fair to label them
as money-hungry or greedy... they probably are doing this
out of the best interests in their heart. But the ?? is
that, id ... if they actually do have best interests
for the deaf people, why can't they go to a deaf culture
class and s.. maybe even ASL classes to learn more about
us before making any recoommendations.

Most of them would sneer... saying, deafness is a disability.
But then again I could be wrong... butr do NOT ple...
please DO NOT say they are making objective decisions at all.

Marvin
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Date:         Mon, 9 Nov 1992 23:24:21 -0500
Comments:     Warning -- RSCS tag indicates an origin of 11CWATT@GALLUA1
From:         "Keith Watt - Gallaudet Dept. of Education"
              <11CWATT@GALLUA.BITNET>
Subject:      Survey for Gallaudet Graduate Class

Hello everyone -

   This is a survey I developed as part of a requirement for a class I'm
taking here at Gallaudet.  I thought it might be interesting to post it
here as well and see what kind of responses I get from the net.  If there
is enough interest, I'll post summaries of the results after the project is
finished.  Your responses will kept in strictest confidence (I'll remove the
headers as soon as they come across the net).  There are only three
questions, and really only two that require any thought.  Let me know your
thoughts!

Thanks,
Keith

==============================================================================

DIRECTIONS:  Please answer the questions which apply to your hearing status.
Please be as specific about your feelings and/or concerns as possible.


1. Where did you attend high school? (Choose one)
   - Public high school with no special services
   - Public high school with special services (such as notetakers,
      interpreters, etc.) but never in self-contained special ed class
   - Self-contained special education class (full- or part-time)
   - Day program at school for the deaf
   - Residential program at school for the deaf
   - Other (please describe)


If you are hearing:

2.  How would you feel about attending a residential school for the deaf your
    entire four years of high school?


3.  How do you think the deaf students would and/or should feel about your
    attending their school?



If you are deaf or hard-of-hearing:

2. How would you feel about a hearing student attending a residential school
   for the deaf for his or her entire four years of high school?


3. How do you think the hearing students would and/or should feel about their
   attending your school?
From: cclark@CNRI.RESTON.VA.US (Cynthia Clark)
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.deaf-l
Subject: Presidential Race Joke
Date: 5 Nov 92 20:34:04 GMT
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU

The reason why did Ross Perot quit the race earlier
because his wife Margot complained about the
White House being TOO SMALL for them.

Cynthia Clark
cclark@cnri.reston.va.us
TTY (703) 758-5912
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Newsgroups: bit.listserv.deaf-l
Date:         Wed, 4 Nov 1992 19:52:26 EDT
From:         EGALE@KENTVM.BITNET
Subject:      Re: Telnet address at Gallaudet

Scott and Cyn-

I don't mean to barge into your conversation about getting access to "Notes"
but I have a question that is sorta related for Scott-

Do you know of any other e-mail address such as Deaf-l that provides info.
about education and/or deafness?  I am majoring in Deaf Education and am
am doing a project for class. I need to gather a list of e-mail address to
share with my classmates.  We need to obtain and share information thru

Thanks in advance.


BTW- If any other Deaf-l readers know, pls. respond!



Desperately seeking information.

Eagle
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Date:         Fri, 6 Nov 1992 08:32:28 -0500
From:         "Mark J. Dessert" <11MDESSERT@GALLUA.BITNET>
Subject:      Re: Deafness CURE!

Miriam Clifford writes:

>Cynthia gave me an excuse to reflect again on the arrogance of those who
>reject as worthless, or bad, or undesirable something that others value but
>that they have never experienced.

>But there ARE some positive things about hearing--ease of communicating
>with others, music--
>the remarkable and special silence of a snow storm,

>Don't knock what you know nothing about!  It can be seen as a form of
>denial.

I agree with the first point.  I grew up hearing and knew nothing about
deafness until I realized I would become deaf myself.  I am now deaf and
still have much to learn.

On the second point.  It is interesting that hearing does not provide
ease of communication if one person understands English and the other
person uderstands French or Spanish.  Please don't forget that ASL is a
true language and provides ease of communication with others who also
use it.

One does not need to experience hearing to appreciate the silence of a
snowstorm.  My favorite "battery charger" for the last two years was to
remove my hearing aids and go for longs walks along the seashore.

Gotta run!  Time for class!!!

                              Mark  :-)
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Newsgroups: bit.listserv.deaf-l
Date:         Tue, 10 Nov 1992 17:42:00 EST
From:         xxuucp@ATT.ATT.COM
Subject:      UUCP Mail

UUCP request att!D.atte798706 to homxa!D.atte798706
failed on system 'homxa'.
Reason for failure:
	remote system can't create temp file
	remote file system is low on free space
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Newsgroups: bit.listserv.deaf-l
Date:         Fri, 6 Nov 1992 13:07:38 GMT
From:         Bosco Keown <keown@VNET.IBM.COM>
Subject:      chance in speechreading

Ref:  various postings

It would be better if people wasted less effort trying to find
out how much content is lost in lipreading and instead worked
on ways of *improving* lipreading ability. I firmly believe that
with innovative methods (such as multimedia) and the right kind
of discipline, it is possible to achieve a phenomenal level of
lipreading ability. I believe that developing one's memory has
an awful lot to do with it because, during lipreading, the slightest
cue can trigger memory associations which lead to comprehension.

Albert Einstein (I think it was) once said that if you study something
for only 10 minutes a day, every day, you will become expert at it.
The same goes for lipreading. If people aren't confident with their
lipreading ability, they must work at it to improve.

Life is hard. There are no short cuts. The nearest thing to a short
cut is hard work.

Bosco.


Bosco Keown,
CICS/6000 Development,         | VNET     : KEOWN at WINVMC
IBM UK Laboratories, Ltd.,     | IBMIPNET : keown@harpo.hursley.ibm.com
Hursley Park,                  | Internet : keown@vnet.ibm.com
Winchester, England.           | BITNET   : KEOWN at VNET
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Newsgroups: bit.listserv.deaf-l
Date:         Tue, 10 Nov 1992 13:43:29 GMT
From:         Bosco Keown <keown@VNET.IBM.COM>
Subject:      Re:60 Minutes

Ref:  Chris Lehfeldt's posting of Tue, 10 Nov 1992 08:39:28 -0400

I endorse what Chris wrote. Too often, parents are pushed into
making decisions about how to bring up a deaf child by people who
advocate only one method above all others. What parents need is
the FACTS, presented in a totally unbiased and ambivalent fashion,
about what options are available to them.

In an ideal world, this would be what they'd get, and they could then
weight up the pros and cons themselves. However, in the *real* world,
there are always people who do not have the best interests of the child
in mind, but only their own beliefs and job security.

I may be making a generalization here, and this may raise a ruckus, but
it seems to me that those within and/or involved with the Deaf community
take a somewhat less ambivalent attitude towards oralism than we oralists
take regarding sign language.

Bosco Keown.

Bosco Keown,
CICS/6000 Development,         | VNET     : KEOWN at WINVMC
IBM UK Laboratories, Ltd.,     | IBMIPNET : keown@harpo.hursley.ibm.com
Hursley Park,                  | Internet : keown@vnet.ibm.com
Winchester, England.           | BITNET   : KEOWN at VNET
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Newsgroups: bit.listserv.deaf-l
Date:         Fri, 6 Nov 1992 07:07:24 -0500
From:         Miriam Clifford <DMIMI@ECSVAX.BITNET>
Subject:      Re: Deafness CURE!

Cynthia gave me an excuse to reflect again on the arrogance of those who
reject as worthless, or bad, or undesirable something that others value but
that they have never experienced.  The assumption that everything heard is
negative is, to me, just as foolish, short-sighted, stupid if you will,
as saying that being deaf insures failure, stupidity, or whatever other
negative trait you want to apply.

Sure, when one hears a lot of noise is heard also.  But there ARE some
positive things about hearing--ease of communicating with others, music--
much of it glorious (I'm not a rock fan, obviously :-) ), sounds of birds,
wind rustling trees, etc., the remarkable and special silence of a snow
storm, and on and on, up to and including city sounds and noises.

Don't knock what you know nothing about!  It can be seen as a form of
denial.

dmimi@ecsvax.uncecs.edu  dmimi@ecsvax.bitnet
Miriam (Mimi) Clifford; 2535 Sevier St, Durham, NC 27705; 919-489-4821
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU
From: ecameron@groucho.mrc.uidaho.edu ()
Subject: Information Needed
Date: Tue, 10 Nov 92 17:27:40 GMT
Organization: uidaho
Reply-To: ecameron@groucho.mrc.uidaho.edu ()



I am a Sign Language Interpreting major at the UNM.  I understand that

people who use signed language a lot tend to get Corpal Tunnel Syndrome

(I'm sorry, I know I spelled that wrong), especially interpreters.  Does

anybody out there have any information on this?  Can a person avoid getting

it?  THANK YOU...


-- 
AMANDA 
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
=                                                                     =
=      YES, They tried to kill him with a forklift.  Yii-Haa!!        =
=                                                                     =
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
=  These opinions are MINE, all MINE. -- Keep your grubby hands OFF!! =
=                                                                     =
=                                        ecameron@groucho.mrc.unm.edu =
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
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Newsgroups: bit.listserv.deaf-l
Date:         Wed, 4 Nov 1992 18:09:10 EST
From:         "(Annie Senghas)" <annie@PSYCHE.MIT.EDU>
Subject: Re: Anyone in East Boston...?

Re: setting up a c/cap decoder

I am in the Boston area, and am kind of tech-y inclined.  I can
understand the yucky English that comes with many appliances, and have
no problem setting up VCRs, video cameras, etc.  However, I don't have
any experience with cc decoders.

Let me know if you don't get someone with more experience.  I might be
able to help.  I will be available after Thanksgiving later this
month.

-Annie
(annie@psyche.mit.edu)
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU
From: pj_pycro@csd.uwe.ac.uk (PJ Pycroft)
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.deaf-l
Subject: Re: Telnet Address for Gallaudet
Date: 5 Nov 92 10:00:13 GMT
Organization: University of the West of England, Bristol
X-Newsreader: Tin 1.1 PL5

Subject: anonymous ftp at Gallaudet?

>Jay Weston (jweston@alfred.carleton.ca) wrote:
>
>I'd like to find out if Gallaudet has anonymous ftp.  Anybody on this
>list know if it is and, if so, the telnet address?  
>
>Jay Weston
>Carleton U
>Ottawa ON
>
>jweston@carleton.ca

and

>Roy Miller (GE0013@SIUCVMB.BITNET) wrote:
> The TELNET address for Gallaudet University is GALLUA.GALLAUDET.EDU.
> 
> -- Roy Miller
>    Creator and Owner of DEAF-L
>    (ge0013@siucvmb.siu.edu)

Thanks for telnet address.... I have tried that before, it need a
i.d. and a passwd and I can't get in with public id - ftp and 
passwd - anonymous.

I have connected to many another University in some part of the world
with a public id and passwd but not with galluadet.....

Any hints would be grateful obtained

Paul

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