HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: altar@fraser.sfu.ca (Ted Wayn Altar)
Subject: Re: Well, I have a question for Ted. . .
Organization: Simon Fraser University, Burnaby, B.C., Canada
Date: Tue, 24 Nov 1992 00:45:59 GMT

Tim Ikeda writes:
. . .
>While the *mode* of vitamin D action may be similar to that of
>many other steroid hormones, the *specificity* of its action and the 
>*specific* regulatory processes being controlled are very distinct.

It is that very specificity that Professor Moon considers as
suggesting the causal mechanism whereby dietary calciferol
"can" indeed be a factor or co-factor in the etiology of
atheriosclerosis and osteoporosis.

>. . .  The central question should instead be: Whether
>vitamin D supplementation is hazardous.
. . .

That is indeed the very question raised by Professor Moon,
and one of the links in his argument is how indeed this can
be possible due to its properties as an anabolic steroid.

>. . .Norman's article did not include this subject.  Is his opinion
>different from that of Dr. Moon's?

I don't know.  It will be interesting to see what professor
Norman thinks of professor Moon's paper.

Remember, I cited only Norman's earlier paper and made reference
to Norman's earlier book to substantiate that in its chemical 
structure and functional properties vitamin D is indeed best classified
as an anabolic steroid.   A lot of people don't know this,
including people even with biology backgrounds.  This was
earlier disputed as "nonsense".  The point is not merely that 
vitamin D acts "like" a hormone but that it is best classified and
understood as an anabolic steroid.  This is interesting in itself
and of course this by itself does NOT entail vitamin D to be
hazardous like the kinds of steroids misused by athletes.  It
does indicate, however, that if other evidence is available about 
the potential problems being incurred by populations ingesting
over long periods of time unncessary doses of vitamin D, then
indeed vitamin D should also be considered not only as best
classified as an anabolic steroid, but as a harzardous one as well.

                                              Regards,
                                                   ted
From: mcrae@cs.ubc.ca (Valerie McRae)
Newsgroups: rec.food.veg
Subject: Re: wonton soup, vegetarian style
Date: 19 Nov 1992 08:57:37 -0800
Organization: Computer Science, University of B.C., Vancouver, B.C., Canada
NNTP-Posting-Host: pipers.cs.ubc.ca

A request for help:

My daughter's favorite birthday dinner has always been homeade wonton
soup - but since she has turned vegetarian, I'm not certain of the
best way to proceed ... if you have a recipe for vegetarian wontons,
could you pelase send it to me by e-mail:

mcrae@cs.ubc.ca

My idea is to substitute rice for athe pork and add waterchestnuts,
soy sauce, green onions and use vegetable broth as the base - then I
usually put in a little bok choy at the last.

The dinenr will be on Saturday, the 21st.

Many thanks,
Valerie
From: mcoyle@fraser.sfu.ca (Strider Coyle)
Subject: Re: Hiking boots.....
Summary: canvas sucks
Keywords: non-leather hiking boots
Organization: Simon Fraser University, Burnaby, B.C., Canada
Distribution: na
Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1992 08:31:57 GMT

In article <1992Nov19.013323.13045@tamsun.tamu.edu> acc4636@tamsun.tamu.edu (Anthony C.) writes:
>
>I am new to this thread so pardon if this has been posted before.
>In the latest issue of vegetarian gourmet there is an ad for
>Aesop.  I dont know anything about this company but they have
>an ad for women's canvas hikers.  I assume they also would have 

	I am very much an outdoor person and a recent convert to
vegetarianism (a process that took 10 years). I find myself in a
dilemma: the 'best' fabrics and materials for outdoor and backcountry
use are still the so-called natural ones. These are 
	wool	- still one of the best for thermal value (wet and
			dry)
	silk	- excellent thermal and wicking qualities
	leather - for wear and tear, strength, stiffness and support
		  in footwear and other equipment still the best.
	down	- the warmest and lightest for insulation.

Of course all of the above are animal derived products.

	I am actively seeking replacements for the above materials,
and while there are certain alternatives, I find myself still unable
to rid myself of certain wool garments and leather boots. Canvas will
not cut it for my purposes.

	wool	- fleece (spun polyester fibre)
	silk 	- polypropylene
	down 	- polargard etc.
	leather - ?????

Does anyone else out there have a viable alternative to leather??? 
(I know that there are substitutes because I have a pair of cycling gloves
made from some kind of synthetic.)

         />	Michael (Strider) Coyle
        /< 	mcoyle@sfu.ca     michaec@sfu.ca     coyle@mcf.ucs.sfu.ca
[\\\\\\(O):::<=================================- 
        \<      Distributed Computing Support Group,                     
         \>     Simon Fraser University, Burnaby, B.C., Canada


Newsgroups: rec.food.veg
From: oak@mwilliams.eche.ualberta.ca (Nilesh Oak)
Subject: Footnote: Health and Maetless Diet
Organization: University Of Alberta, Edmonton Canada
X-Newsreader: Tin 1.1 PL3
Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1992 19:13:57 GMT


Keywords: 
I thank all who conveyed there appreciation for posting of this article.
If someone is looking for the reference list for the above article; I will be
glad to supply that.
 
Interested people may have frequent look at journals such as 
 
(1) Vegetarian Times Magazine
 
(2) Here's Health Magazine
 
(3) The journal of the American Medical Association

(4) Jouranl of the National Cancer Institute
 
(5) Today's Health   etc.
 
Any suggestions reg.  additional list of journals.
 
*************************************************************************
The central question about vegetarian diets used to be whether it was 
healthy to eliminate meat and other animal foods.  Now, however. the main 
question has become whether it is healthier to be a vegetarian than to be a 
meat eater.  The answer to both questions, based on currently available 
evidence, seems to be yes.
 
				Jane E. Brody
				New York Times News Service
***************************************************************************
Nilesh
Newsgroups: rec.food.veg
From: me
Subject: Re: Conclusions about Deb Schwarz
Organization: Abo Akademi University
Date: Mon, 16 Nov 1992 05:45:04 GMT

In article <1992Nov15.091813.23756@walter.cray.com> tinamou@ferris.cray.com (Doug Nicholson) writes:
>In article <1992Nov14.084228.23685@abo.fi> me (I) writes:
>>In article <3321@voodoo.UUCP> das@voodoo.boeing.com (Deb Schwartz) writes:
>>>I have Bulsari in my permanent kill file, so I have no idea what else is
>>
>>I can still make you read this one.
>>
>>>in his original posting, but speaking for myself, PLEASE DON'T GO!  Over
>>>the years, I've enjoyed your contributions and wonderful recipes.  Please
>>>be aware that Bulsari speaks only for himself, not for me, or, I suspect,
>>
>>Shut up. I speak for you.
>>
>>>many of the other vegetarians on this group.   As far as I'm concerned,
>>>anyone who is interested in vegetarianism is welcome in this group, no matter
>>>whether they be vegetarian, carnivore or omnivore.
>>
>>Still need smileys ?
>
>Yes and this whole post is unnecessary.



Then let's do it once more.

Abhay
From: gph@hpcc01.corp.hp.com (G. Paul Houtz)
Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1992 00:54:05 GMT
Subject: Re: Environmental reasons, Part 3
Organization: the HP Corporate notes server
Newsgroups: rec.food.veg

red_trek@drycas.club.cc.cmu.edu writes:
>Simple answer:  not enough demand.
>
>I'll let more knowledgeable folk give a more detailed response.
>===============
>
>In article <1992Nov18.145224.4706@rulway.LeidenUniv.nl>, desmedt@ruls40.LeidenUniv.nl (Koenraad de Smedt) writes:
>> According to Abhay Bulsari, agriculture is much cheaper than meat and dairy
>> production.  Then how come soybean-based substitutes such as soybean milk,
>> soybean pudding, etc. etc. are outrageously priced??  Anyone has an
>> explanation?
>> 
>> Koenraad de Smedt  (Leiden University)
>----------

   I am not sure what things are like where Koenraad writes, but
   here in CA, you can get tofu at the local oriental store for
   $.69 per lb.

   That is not exactly expensive, considering it is high in protein.

   The cheapest hamburger is more than twice this price.

   Organic Tofu is more like $1.50.

   I think Rich Young is correct, in that animal foods are heavily subsidized.
   We know this from the fact that the farmers here in California pay a much
   lower price for water (it is practically free) than residential users pay.

   Also, the producers of animal foods are NOT paying for the price of 
   disposing of the waste as yet.   As they are forced to, you will see
   the prices of meat and fowl rising.    I don't think it is far in the
   future.

   Basically, I think that as the environmental problems of animal food 
   production continue, and as water supplies get more polluted, you will
   see this problem begin to be addressed, and when it does, you can expect
   animal food prices to increase dramatically.   Hopefully we will not all
   be expected to bear the brunt of those increases by forced subsidies, as
   we are now.
Newsgroups: rec.food.veg
From: abrams@binah.cc.brandeis.edu
Subject: Re: high calorie, filling, meals or recipes.
Reply-To: abrams@binah.cc.brandeis.edu
Organization: Brandeis University
Distribution: rec
Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1992 14:51:36 GMT

I had trouble with my e-mail, trying to reply to <NSINGH.92Nov19115933@hqsun5.oracle>.  The question in the original post was on how to get full
enough, and get enough calories, out of vegetarian food.  

Since I still eat dairy, I don't have too much trouble doing this!
I find that meals that contain some fat are in general more filling
and certainly are much higher in calories.  Fats are calorie dense, as
my weight conscious relatives are constantly reminding me.  

If you are vegan, you should think about eating more nuts and nut oils.
They are very fattening.  (I do think about this, since like a lot 
of people, I try to eat less fat, etc.)  My housemate was trying to 
bulk up this past year.  Though he is not a vegetarian, he used 
avocados as a source of healthy fat.  He ate lots of guacamole and
corn chips.  

If you want more calories and you want to feel fuller, then, add 
cashews to your rice.  You could even fry nuts in oil before you
put them on your food!  You can also add things lik humus (with 
tahini) and high-oil eggplant salads.  Think about putting 
buttered almonds (or margarined almonds) on your green beans.  

My mother also constantly reminds me that legumes are fattening.  
They are certainly delicious, and you can always add frozen peas,
which provide protein, to your food.  Tofu is also high in fat,
though I don't know if you can really fill up on it.  

If you can figure out how I can e-mail you, I would certainly send
you recipes for some filling things.  

Good luck.

Ruth Abrams
Newsgroups: rec.food.veg
From: hardy@ug.cs.dal.ca (S.Hardy)
Subject: Novice Vegetarian stuff...
Organization: Math, Stats & CS, Dalhousie University, Halifax, NS, Canada
Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1992 06:39:24 GMT

 I'm not a vegetarian, because it is an impossible thing to do in my family.
I tried Tofu burgers once, as a hamburger replacement, using a Tofu Burger
Mix I got from a health food store...and it wasn't that bad, just not the
most incredible, awe-striking dish I have ever had. I was wondering if
anyone out there had a recipe for GOOD Tofu burgers, that aren't rubbery or
really gross like that. I think they have potential to taste good, if I get
a good recipe for it.

 I am also trying to decrease my meat intake, and increase my vegetable 
intake (which is about nil at the moment). I was wondering if someone could
maybe post some interesting things to do with vegetables, besides Stir-frying,
because I'm at a complete loss. If anyone knows of any other neat things and
tips for meat-replacement, please tell me. I've always wanted to be more of a
vegetable eater, than a meat eater, yet I can find no variety or really good
recipes. 

 One more thing. :) I have been searching high and low for a GOOD Caesar 
salad dressing...one that doesn't use those gross salad dressings. I tend to
eat salad without any dressing, thus adding to my "vegetable boredom," :), 
so any tips would be GREATLY appreciated. :)

 Thanks, 

  Your budding Vegetarian,

  Simone J. Hardy,
  Halifax, Nova Scotia, Canada.
From: iaguirre@hp9k.lag.itesm.mx (Lic. Ignacio Aguirre Rason)
Newsgroups: rec.food.veg
Subject: industralization of honedew and candelope
Keywords: honewdew candelope
Date: 19 Nov 92 01:12:39 GMT


 I am looking for some information about the industralization of the 
honewdew and candelope melons.
 In this area of Mexico, Torreon coahuila, is a region of high 
productivity of melons, thats the main reason of my investigation.

I would like to know if someone have some information of:
a) types of machinery to use freeze and/or can the melons.
b) tecniches to produce the little pearls of melons.
c) estadistic information of this product.
d) general information of the industralization of the product.
e) any kind of research of this product.
f) any thesis.
g) if you want to do business with me, please cantact me.
h) any comments.

please contact me if you have some information to share with me, I realy 
appreciate your help.
my adress in internet is:
                         iaguirre@hp9k.lag.itesm.mx
From: twain@milton.u.washington.edu (Barbara Hlavin)
Newsgroups: rec.food.veg
Subject: Re: Indian (sort of) recipe: Pongali
Date: 19 Nov 92 00:16:12 GMT
Organization: University of Washington, Seattle


Arun Meda Sannuti mentions curry leaves, and Helge Hauglin asks if 
Arun means bay leaves.  Arun says 

>	I know exactly what these are and what bay leaves are, and
>they are not the same thing.  They are the leaves of a common (sort
>of) plant in India, and they have a very pleasant flavour.  Bay leaves
>have a completely different flavour, and I'm not sure if they would
>work well.  I'll try to find out for sure what the english name for
>them is.

We have a box of curry leaves in our cupboard.  (Neither of us knows 
where they came from, or what to do with them, but we keep moving the 
box around with us.)  As I recall, the label reads simply "Curry Leaves."

Madhu probably picked them up in an Asian grocery store someplace, 
thinking to use them in his cooking.  

--Barbara 
Newsgroups: rec.food.veg
From: rbarclay@trentu.ca (Ross Barclay)
Subject: Re: *Hot* Sauce----- The hottest!
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41    
Organization: Trent University Computer Services Department
Date: Sun, 22 Nov 1992 17:07:00 GMT

In article <1992Nov21.015818.18828@gmuvax2.gmu.edu>, amcmicha@gmuvax2.gmu.edu (Andrew McMichael) writes...

>Take 4 or 5 habanero peppers and chop them finely.  Wear rubber

I was wondering:

         What are and where can one get habanero peppers

         and

         Will other peppers (jalapeno, banana, jamaican etc...) act
         as suitable substitutes?

Thanks.

________________________________________________________________________________

"Here, finish your strudel! <Crash>"           Ross Barclay - RBarclay@TrentU.CA
________________________________________________________________________________
From: cg910@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Harris M. Berger)
Newsgroups: rec.food.veg
Subject: Help with Wonderfull Nut Loaf.   PLEASE!!!!
Date: 20 Nov 1992 19:49:44 GMT
Organization: Case Western Reserve University, Cleveland, OH (USA)
Reply-To: cg910@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Harris M. Berger)
NNTP-Posting-Host: slc4.ins.cwru.edu


Hi Folks,
     Several years ago, I visited a veggie freind at her house on the
day after Thanksgiving.  I had made a nice veggie thanksgiving, and she
suggested that I try her T-Day main dish--a nut loaf.  If memory serves,
it involved a layer of corn bread, a layer of a rich nut patte (wlanuts?
pine nuts?) and another layer of corn bread.  It was great.  She xeroxed
the recipe for me from her bok (of course I have no clue what one,
something like _The American Vegiterian Cookbook_ ???) and I stored it
my recipe files.  I never made, I have been meaning to, I lost it.  I
wiuld love to make this recipe next thursday.  Does any one have the
recipe.  Oh Please please respond!! If you don't have it, do you have
something similar or a idea on how to get it? To answer your question, I
can't reach my friend, she is on the road.  Thanks in advance.  Please
respond by e-mail, becuase I don't get to read the net as often as I
like, but I do keep up with my mail.   

My adress is cg910@cleveland.Freenet.Edu


Thanks agian

-Harry Berger


-- 
------------------------------------------------------------------
Harry Berger                           cg910@cleveland.freenet.edu            
Newsgroups: rec.food.veg
From: young@serum.kodak.com (Rich Young)
Subject: Re: PCRM and milk (revisited)
Originator: young@sasquatch
Reply-To: young@serum.kodak.com
Organization: Clinical Diagnostics Division, Eastman Kodak Company
Date: Sat, 21 Nov 92 00:14:06 GMT

In article <1992Nov20.141555.24137@hellgate.utah.edu> llarsen%peruvian.cs.utah.edu@cs.utah.edu (Loren Larsen) writes:
>
>In article <1992Nov20.155324.27337@pixel.kodak.com> young@serum.kodak.com writes:
>>
>>     WOULD CHILDREN BE BETTER OFF WITHOUT MILK?
>>
>>	The [PCRM] says children can obtain all the calcium they need by
>>	eating calcium-containing vegetables such as kale and broccoli.
>>	But a child would have to eat four to six cups of such vegetables
>>	daily to take in teh amount of calcium available in just two cups
>>	of milk.  And even if a youngster could be encouraged to eat such
>>	a large amount of leafy vegetables (good luck to any parent who
>>	plans on trying it), he still wouldn't be obtaining significant
>>	amounts of other essential nutrients present in milk, like riboflavin,
>>	vitamin D, and phosphorus.
>
>Now if drinking milk is SO important for getting calcium, why do you suppose it
>is that studies of the tensile strength of vegans vs. meat eaters has shown that
>vegans have significantly higher bone tensile strength?

	Without seeing the studies, it's difficult to say with any certainty,
	but lifestyle differences come to mind.  I wager that health and
	fitness are far higher priorities for teh average vegan than for
	the average omnivore, and it's well known that exercise increases
	bone density and strength.

>Why do you suppose it
>is that people in counties that don't meat (like China where it's too expensive
>for the peasants) have much lower incidences of heart disease and osteoporosis?

	Again, without the studies, it's hard to say, but it's a well-known
	fact that the "standard" Western diet is far to rich in protein and
	fat, and far too low in fiber.  Fitness may also be another factor.

[...]


-Rich Young (These are not Kodak's opinions.)
Xref: sparky rec.food.veg:10711 rec.food.cooking:21080
From: red_trek@drycas.club.cc.cmu.edu
Newsgroups: rec.food.veg,rec.food.cooking
Subject: Re: Help! Cranberry sauce (jellied) needed w/out refined sugar
Date: 23 Nov 92 16:34:48 -0500
Organization: Carnegie Mellon Computer Club

I dunno on recipices, but it's my understanding that sucanat 
(availalbe in healthf food stores) is a pretty good substitute
to refine cane sugar.  In fact, some peole think it tastes better.
Another nice thing about it is that sucanat has 12 calories per 
teaspoon (sorry, I don't know what the metric equivalent is)
while refined cane sugar has 16).

In article <tara.722477993@starburst.umd.edu>, tara@starburst.umd.edu (Tara McDermott) writes:
> 
> Now that thanksgiving is just around the corner, I'll be having
> several friends come down for Thanksgiving.  Most of them don't eat
> refined sugar (myself among them), so I'm at a lost as for what to do
> for Cranberry sauce.  One of the people coming said that's all he
> wants to have, and I'm looking for either a recipe to make it, or a
> natural brand that health food stores might carry.  It can't have any
> refined sugar like white cane sugar, or fructose, or any (high
> fructose) corn syrup and it can't have any gelatin in it.  I know that
> store brands don't have any gelatin in it, but I'm completely
> mystified as to how to make it from scratch.  Is there a recipe out
> there for it?  Or am I out of luck?  Any help is greatly appreciated!
> 
> --
> Tara McDermott                                  tara@starburst.umd.edu
> 
> Sweet and sweet is their poisoned note, the little snakes' of silver throat,
> in mossy skulls that nest and lie, ever singing "die, oh! die."
Newsgroups: rec.food.veg
From: Rosemary Waigh <rwaigh@zooid.guild.org>
Subject: Re: Learn to make a kill file
Reply-To: rwaigh@zooid.UUCP (Rosemary Waigh)
Organization: The Zoo of Ids
Date: Mon, 23 Nov 1992 16:11:50 GMT

In article <1992Nov18.144316.18786@eng.umd.edu> georgec@eng.umd.edu (George B. Clark) writes:
>
>This past week alone, Abhay posted at least five unsolicited articles on
>environmental issues in rec.food.veg. Each perhaps exceeded 100 lines of
>text. The articles were inappropriate both for their length and their content,
>and since nobody followed up with comments, we can assume there was little
>interest.
>
I was interested, but I don't post a thank you note for every good article
that appears, in the interest of saving bandwidth.

>Rather than post at sci.environment, talk.environment, and
>talk.politics.animals, Ted and Abhay would rather do their grandstanding
>here in rec.food.veg among a less willing audience.
>
I hesitate to get involved in this flame fest, because I am sure many
r.f.v readers are as sick of it as I am.  I am posting only because I
would hate to see the ethical/environmental vegetarians driven out of
the vegetarian newsgroup.

>If the payment for posting these lengthy, unsolicited articles came from
>money out of their own pockets, maybe they'd see matters from our
>point of view.
>
I haven't counted, but I suspect that much more has been wasted posting
these pointless flames than has been "wasted" posting articles on aspects
of vegetarianism which you don't like.]

If ethical vegetarians can't even post in the vegetarian newsgroup without
getting flamed to shreds, where can they post?

Ro
rwaigh@zooid.guild.org

Newsgroups: rec.food.veg
From: abulsari@aton.abo.fi
Subject: Lecithin (E322)
Organization: Abo Akademi University
Date: Sun, 22 Nov 1992 14:43:17 GMT


I have asked earlier about sources of Lecithin, an additive which is
extremely common here in margarine, biscuits, bread and a variety of
other consumer products. In most parts of Europe, it is referred to
as emulsifier E322.

I find from the Animal free shopper of the Vegan Society that 
Lecithin is a fatty substance found in nerve tissues, egg yolk,
blood and other tissues. Mainly obtained commercially from
soyabeans, peanuts and corn.

With regards,

Abhay

Newsgroups: rec.food.veg
From: georgec@eng.umd.edu (George B. Clark)
Subject: All This Talk About KILL Files
Date: Tue, 17 Nov 92 21:11:31 GMT
Organization: University of Maryland


Now that King Richard The Lion Hearted has returned to rec.food.veg,
there has been a flurry of dialog about creating KILL files and who
to put in them.

What a cop out!

Ted and Abhay have posted information on vitamin D, and I want to
see them defend it.  Ms. Warwick's participation would be appreciated,
too, since all she has offered so far is criticism.

Hey, Abhay.  Move your candy ass to front and center stage, and let's
hear some vitamin D expertise from you.

You, too, Ted.  Don't chicken out, and go into another exile, like you
did before.  Afterall, according to Abhay's "List of Participants," you
are "our most valuable contributor."   :-)