HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: ipc@zoo.bt.co.uk (Ian Coleman)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.starwars
Subject: Re: Just how much of SW did Lucas make up as he
Date: 29 Jul 92 08:04:33 GMT
Reply-To: ipc@zoo.bt.co.uk
Organization: BT Laboratories

In article 4238@ericsson.se, etllnfr@babelfish.ericsson.se (Lyndon Fletcher) writes:
>The other day I was looking through the Starwars Portfolio and noticed how much
>Lucas changed the first film between preproduction and the final screened version.

Agreed.

>I always saw the Vader/Luke relationship as being a little contrived,
>it always looked like an afterthought or something designed to shock an 
>audience. Concidering the carefull characterisation of the first film    
>it seems strange that Luke reacts so violently to the news. It's almost
>like Lucas is using that grief to distract the audience from what is a
>major plot twist. It's as if HE didn't believe it would stand up to close
>scutiny.

Too right, I still can't believe he intended Ben to be such a sneaky liar!
The plot definately changed course between ANH & SW.

>
>Strangely I accepted the Luke/Leia relationship more easily. Every writer
>puts a version of him/herself into their work. It was always obvious to  
>me that Lucas's character in Starwars was Han Solo, he got the best lines
>and the most interesting characterisation. Once you realised that it became
>obvious that he either had to die mega heroically, or he had to get the girl.
>For Han to get Leia, Luke would have to be out of the way (they had made too
>much of Han and Lukes rivalry in the first film), I had thought Luke would
>disappear off at the end of the movies to leave the field clear. Making
>Luke and Leia brother and sister solved this problem quite easily.

I never liked that either. I mean Luke has major hots for Leia in ANH but
doesn't seem at all disapointed to get rid of her to Han.

>So did Lucas change his mind yet again? Based on past evidence it seems
>unlikely that George ever had a single unified vision for Starwars at
>all, just a few general ideas that he developed as time went on.  When
>the first movie proved so popular, Lucas realised that he would have no
>difficulty financing two extra films and THEN he took a more long term view.
>This could explain the sudden appearence of "Chapter IV" in ANH.

Hear Hear. The whole 9 episodes planned out in advance is nonsense when
compared with evidence of how the plot for ANH was actually formed.

---
Ian Coleman (ipc@zoo.bt.co.uk)  | "Eat healthily, exercise regularly,
BTL, Martlesham Heath, England  |  you may not live longer, but it'll 
Europe, Earth, Sol, Milky Way...|  certainly feel like it"
From: jamesbs@mundil.cs.mu.OZ.AU (JJ Glamma)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.starwars
Subject: Re: Star Wars vs. Star Trek, tech & tactics, etc.
Date: 27 Jul 92 15:19:17 GMT
Organization: Computer Science, University of Melbourne, Australia

rlbell@babbage.waterloo.edu (Richard Bell) writes:

>The A-wing that took out the bridge of a star destroyer was out of control
>and probably no longer on power, yet the mystery device still worked;
>therefore it must be a very simple device, it may even be passive.  If it is
>that easy to defeat imperial shields, it will not take the Feds long to put
>them into thier photon torpedoes.   

"Sir, we've just lost our bridge deflector shield..."

I guess that quote says it all... that's the second message in a row you've
pointed out how useless Imperial shields are when they are down... 8^)

>We saw one on Hoth, it must be a cooling problem, waste heat rejection is
>a severe problem for spacecraft, the shape of the Death Star, minimum surface
>area for its volume, makes it even worse.  A planetary atmosphere carries
>the heat away by convection, and then the entire planet's surface is available
>as a black body radiator.  The Death Star is a HUGE spacecraft, but it is an
>extremely tiny planet.  
> 
Simpler to just say that the people who built DS1 just didn't consider "a small
one-man fighter to be any threat.It was also my impression that DS1 didn't
have much more than a standard shield... it relied on turbolaser batteries to
knock out capitaships.




-- 
-----------------------------------+-------------------------------------------
JJ Glamma                          | "Hey look... The Sarge and Dietrich ain't
aka James William Patrick Bennetts |  dead, man... their signs are real low, 
jamesbs@mundil.cs.mu.OZ.AU         |  but they ain't dead!"
-----------------------------------+ "Then we go back in and get them!"
When in doubt, use brute force.	   | "F*ck that!"
		-- Ken Thompson	   |	-- PFCs Hudson & Vasquez, on loyalty.
-----------------------------------+-------------------------------------------
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.starwars
From: jmb5b@faraday.clas.Virginia.EDU (John M. Bozeman)
Subject: Re: Star Wars vs. Star Trek, tech & tactics, etc.
Organization: University of Virginia
Date: Thu, 23 Jul 1992 01:55:21 GMT

In article <BrpqI6.75A@watserv1.waterloo.edu> rlbell@babbage.waterloo.edu (Richard Bell) writes:
>In article <1992Jul20.161336.4255@mnemosyne.cs.du.edu> mcollins@nyx.cs.du.edu (Killans - First And Last And Always) writes:
>>>
>>>>It has already been shown in ST:TNG that
>>>>the Enterprise cannot handle large amounts of ion radiation
>>>
>>>Ion radiation? There's no such thing.
>>
>>Really? Ever heard of alpha radiation? I guess you could call alpha particles
>>helium cations.
>>
>>Mike
>
>Moot point, the only two kinds of ion radiations are alpha rays, and beta
>rays; anything will stop the first, and paper will stop the second.


NO NO NO!!!!!!!!!!
!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

You are VERY mistaken.  "Particle beam" weapons, now PRESENTLY undevelopment,
actually use heavy nuclei stripped of all their electrons.  The resulting
ions are QUITE destructive...   I believe that these are some of the 
radiation that makes nuclear warheads especially destructive in the short
term, which is why one needs so much shielding from nuclear blasts (in addition
to the nasty neutrons (which "activate" stable elements, making them radioactive).  Cosmic rays are also quite dangerous; these, too, are rapidly moving
light and heavy ions.

       a former radiation worker.

 
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.starwars
From: mcmahan@cs.unca.edu (Scott McMahan -- Genesis mailing list owner)
Subject: Rebels and their commanders...
Organization: University of North Carolina at Asheville
X-Newsreader: Tin 1.1 PL3
Date: Sun, 26 Jul 1992 22:48:41 GMT

While I know advancement in the Empire is over the dead body
of your commander, ever considered the rebels?

Did General Dodonna (?) die on Yavin? What happened to him?
He wasn't in *the* meeting of RotJ, with all the other high brass.

Did General Rieken (wow, I'm *fuzzy* on these names!) die in Hoth's
trenches? I thought he was successfully evacuated... I know he
never showed up again.

Then there's Mon Mothma -- who never got an action figure of herself,
although people with far briefer appearances like 'Squid Head' did --
and General (Bob? He looks like a Bob) Madine (may-DEEN, not MAY-dine,
right?) and lobster of the year Admiral Ackbar...where were these
high ranking officials during the first 3 films? Were they above 
visiting the Rebel base?

Were Yavin & Hoth *THE* rebellion's HQs, or were they just one among
many? This point was never really clear. If the rebels *had* the huge
fleet in RotJ, how come they went to Hoth?! Where was the  fleet doring
all this? I can understand why they didn't use it against the first
Death Star, because it would have vaporized them...

One thing I like about Zahn's book is that he flushes out the characters
of Ackbar, et. al., more than the movie.

The point is, I wouldn't really want to try to advance much in the
Rebels... I'd be lost forever :^)

Scott
--
"I am *NOT* a committee!" -- Princess Leia Organa

Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.starwars
From: jreiss@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (Joseph W Reiss)
Subject: Re: Anakin/Vader death
Organization: The Ohio State University
Date: Wed, 22 Jul 1992 03:38:01 GMT

In article <1992Jul22.022320.13937@udel.edu> lim@pecan.cns.udel.edu (Julie Lim) writes:
>In article <1992Jul21.231345.21010@wpi.WPI.EDU> mmartin@wpi.WPI.EDU (Matthew Wayne Martin) writes:
>
>>Well, I seem to have caused a little stife with my comment on Anakin/Vader's
>>lack of disappearing upon death, yet "glowing" appearance at the end of Jedi.
>>I was not commenting on the fact that the body armor remained, but rather
>>that his head remained.  I don't believe his head was "more machine than man"
>>	Now, anyone want to explain what happened?
>
>	I tried. Sorry if you didn't buy the "brain-death but his Energizers
>kept his heart pumping" kludge.

Kludge?  You want kludge?  Okay, here's one.  Onboard the Death Star,
when Luke removes Vader/Anakin's mask and Vader/Anakin curls up
Vader/Anakin's toes, he hasn't really died yet.  He's unconscious and
on the brink of death, but actually dies in the shuttle craft.  His
body vaporizes and Luke burns the armor down on Endor.

Hah!  Top that one for a stretch! :-)

Joe
-- 
__________       |  jreiss@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu
  |   |___)      | """"""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""
\_/OE |  \EISS   |  The Prime Directive forbids our interfering with a
          `----  |  developing flame-war.  But that's never stopped us.
From: nlc@vulcan.xtel.co.uk (Neil Cook)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.starwars
Subject: Re: Non-canon fan fiction ahead (long)
Keywords: (Remember, I warned you.)
Date: 27 Jul 92 13:04:25 GMT
Organization: X-Tel Services Ltd.

In article <1992Jul27.052917.16811@udel.edu>, lim@pecan.cns.udel.edu (Julie Lim) writes:
|>      "When did I lie to you? Your friend Kenobi fought Anakin
|> Skywalker and left him for dead. My people found him laid out like
|> bracken on the edge of a lava pit, and for a long time, his
|> survival was a very iffy thing-- hence the indictment of you and
|> General Kenobi."    ^^^^ ^^^^^

Not a bad story, but "iffy thing"? Come on, I think we can do better than that!

:-)

Neil Cook
Organization: Carnegie Mellon, Pittsburgh, PA
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.starwars,rec.arts.sf.movies
Date: Thu, 30 Jul 1992 12:49:40 -0400 
From: Louis Blair <lb2e+@andrew.cmu.edu>
Subject: Re: Who is the Bad Guy in E.T.?
	<BD.92Jul27094814@fluent.UUCP> <1992Jul27.171218.7762@blaze.cs.jhu.edu>
	<DLB.92Jul29143321@fanny.wash.inmet.com>

>Didn't do anything wrong?  Invade a person's home without
>a warrent, encase it in some sort of big plastic bag, separate
>mother from children, hold without charge or conviction,
>and in general take over their lives without a by your leave?
>What country do you live in?  The "scientists" in this film
>portray the worst form of totalitarianism.  The family has
>no rights whatever (not even mentioning any rights on the
>part of an alien visitor, about which there can be some argument).
>To state that they did nothing wrong betrays a basic
>misunderstanding concerning constitutional rights.  "Nothing
>wrong", indeed!

You have a point, but I think that you are overstating the
case.  For one thing, it seemed to me that the family was
allowed to move around pretty freely.  The scientists seemed
quite friendly.  The government types did want to take over
the situation, but I don't think that what was shown was
all that different from what the government was depicted
as doing in 2001.  (Anyone want to claim that ACC is
anti-scientist?)  The impression I got was that they
were trying to stabilize the condition of the alien and
probably eventually move it to some location better
equipped to deal with it.  Not unreasonable goals.
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.starwars
From: mohr@leland.Stanford.EDU (Paul William Mohr)
Subject: Re: Stupid/Cool
Organization: DSG, Stanford University, CA 94305, USA
Date: Fri, 24 Jul 92 19:57:11 GMT

In article <1992Jul17.141502.6827@zip.eecs.umich.edu>,
winterh@emunix.emich.edu (Twist) writes:
> 
> >Luke deserves a kick to the face for the scene when he's saying good-bye to 
> >Chewie and Han before the Hoth battle. Watch as Luke goes up and scratches
> >Chewie's neck! What the hell was that!? 
> >

Well, while I would hesistate to disagree with you that it was a little bit
out of place, I don't think it's nearly as bad as some of the other stuff
(in RotJ, for example).  Besides, even Han scratched Chewie's head in ANH--
it was right as they were crawling out of the secret smuggling compartments
on the Falcon...so I maybe it's not such a weird thing for a good friend
to scratch a Wookie behind the ears.  Just an observation.

One of the things that I really love about the trilogy are the little things--
for example, the scene in ANH where Han, Luke and Chewie are in the elevator
going down to the detention level.  They're all standing there, waiting for
the door to open, and the one behind them opens.  I thought it was hilarious.





-- 
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
| mohr@leland.stanford.edu |    "Sorry, I guess I just don't have          |
|                          |     anything clever to say."                  |
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.starwars
From: tsmaster@media.mit.edu (David LeCompte)
Subject: Re: ADDED scene?  Also: Luke/Vader relationship question
Organization: MIT Media Laboratory
Date: Fri, 31 Jul 1992 15:40:03 GMT

In article <jk2xd3h@rpi.edu> caer@iear.arts.rpi.edu (Charlie Figura) writes:
>In article <l7ga55INNdgu@aludra.usc.edu> joshuali@aludra.usc.edu (Joshua Ling) writes:
>>In article <1bO702v41cEF01@JUTS.ccc.amdahl.com> beh10@DUTS.ccc.amdahl.com (Barry Holsinger) writes:
>[Lots-O-Stuff regarding how Luke knew who Vader was deleted.]
>
>
>I can't imagine what you guys are thinking.... we're talking about the
>EMPIRE here.  Even if Tatooine is a backwater planet, they know about
>the empire.  (they know about the rebellion, dont they?  why, biggs tells
>him, right there in the movie... :-)  Point is, don't you figure that
>people *know* what vader looks like?  like people *knew* what hitler or
>stalin or sauron (well, i guess not sauron) looked like?  (not, of course,
>trying to draw any plot parallels... 8-)  Figure that Luke would have to
>be a bleedin' ninny (not gettin' into this one) *not* to know who 'that guy
>in black' was.....

The Vader-Hitler parallel is the wrong one to draw. Vader is clearly
on Tarkin's chain in ANH, and on the emporor's in the other two
movies.

The empire is BIG. The Death Star was *A* battle station. ANH wasn't the
same kind of move as the other two, because things were happening to
J. Random Farmer. Darth Vader was A bad guy in ANH, not THE bad guy.
The whole Death Star Committee (or whatever) there in the conference
room seemed to be higher up in the beurocracy of the empire.

I think that for Luke to have known Darth Vader from his Tatooine
upbringing is a little unlikely. Possible, but unlikely.

-- 
---------------------
ObSig
From: shimkevi@buchmf.bu.edu (Sergey Shimkevich)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.starwars
Subject: Re: Star Wars vs. Star Trek, tech & tactics, etc.
Date: 23 Jul 92 20:53:25 GMT
Organization: Boston University Chemistry Department

In article <BruMxE.MBy@watserv1.waterloo.edu> rlbell@babbage.waterloo.edu
(Richard Bell) writes:

>The SSD passed right through the shields and caused extensive, if local,
>damage to the Death Star.  If the Death Star has holes in its shielding
>large enough to pass the Millenium Falcon, it has holes large enough to
>pass photon torpedoes, anti-matter bombs delivered via transporter, or
>any other destructive device that the Feds chose to use.   

The Death Star was under construction and did not have the operating shields
of its own after the Endor shield was destroyed.

It is my understanding that Millenium Falcon was able to get to the DS because
rebel fighters blew up a lot of things on the surface beforehand, shield
generators included.

----

About a shuttlecraft penetrating the shields and beaming parts of DS away:

A shuttlecraft is not as maneuverable as an X-wing and will be shot down
immediately. Also, the Feds (and Klingons, Romulans, too) never used
transporter as a weapon, thus there must be a problem somewhere.

//////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////
// Ryan: What is it to you, demon?       //// Sergei Shimkevich             //
// Lune: It is Sir, Demon to you, worm!  //// shimkevi@buchmf.bu.edu        //
// -Phantasy Star III                    ////                               // 
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.starwars
From: ss@wpi.WPI.EDU (Scott Streeter)
Subject: Re: ADDED scene?
Organization: Worcester Polytechnic Institute, Worcester, MA 01609-2280
Date: Fri, 31 Jul 1992 15:26:10 GMT

>>>>> On Fri, 31 Jul 92 13:13:34 GMT, aa595@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Dan Duvall) said:

aa595> I do remember when I was very young seeing a t-shirt that said
aa595> "Darth Vader Lives," and I thought to myself something like
aa595> "nah-- his ship was way out of control. He'll be dead in the
aa595> next movie." Doesn't seem like I would've thought this after
aa595> seeing the initial theatrical release if it included a
aa595> stabilization shot...

Also, I loved the Empire teaser poster. All it was, was a picture of 
a starry background with a shadowy, ghost like image of Darth's face,
and at the bottom, saying "Coming to your galaxy this summer". I have 
the poster, though not an original theatre one, it's still one of my
favorites.
--
                        Scott Streeter
                        ss@wpi.wpi.edu
From: tsmaster@media.mit.edu (David LeCompte)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.starwars
Subject: Re: My favorite...
Date: 31 Jul 92 15:52:43 GMT
Organization: MIT Media Laboratory

In article <l7hk8uINNgpd@aludra.usc.edu> perez@usc.edu (Richard Perez) writes:
>Best Characters:
>1. Boba Fett - the meanest looking muther in the galaxy!
The most studly guy. A walking armory. eaten by a worm.

>5. Anyone who killed an Ewok....
Not as cool as anyone who killed more than one.

>Worst Characters:
>2. Yoda - Jedi Master? looked like something that crawled out 
>          of the swamp.
He *DID*. :)

>4. C-3PO - I wish he had a "mute" button.
Was it just me, or did it seem that his midriff was terribly designed?

>5. Stormtroopers - couldn't hit the side of a barn!
Gotta hate inbreeding! :)

>Honorable mention:
>Worst outfit - Lobot: what the hell was that thing on his head!
a cellular phone. Lando gives him a ring on his wrist watch in ESB.

					Dave

-- 
---------------------
ObSig
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.starwars
From: s1082919@giaec.cc.monash.edu.au (T Hankinson is YODA)
Subject: LAPTI NEK LYRICS
Organization: Monash University College Gippsland, Churchill, 3842, Australia
Date: Fri, 31 Jul 1992 00:00:27 GMT


  Here are the huttese lyrics to LAPTI NEK performed by
  Sy Snoodles and the Rebo band.

  Ab queck ze - nek fe si          Jup col im in na hiz, ooh
  Wa toc peg qui dos gee pif, ahh   Joc jar-raz bas deg zor-ze zot.
  Jer wih tus-ter mo vey
  qui neb___  be og ezen on      wok lapti nek seb not van
  Goc jar-raz bas deg zor-ze zot.

      Lap - ti nek, rat a ran wimjoct co jap-pi q-aff,
      lapti nek, kiv ba ha top wep jex pi va bep ,
      Lap - ti nek, rat a ran wimjoct co jap-pi q-aff

  Ab queck ze - nek fe si,        Jem wih tus-ter mo vey
  qui neb___  be og ezen on        wok lapti nek seb not van
  Goc jar-raz bas deg zor-ze zot.

      Lap - ti nek, rat a ran wimjoct co jap-pi q-aff,
      lapti nek, kiv ba ha top wep jex pi va bep ,
      Lap - ti nek, rat a ran wimjoct co jap-pi q-aff

  Deg zor-ze zot.             Jem wih tus-ter mo vey
  qui neb___  be og ezen on        wok lapti nek seb not van
  Goc jar-raz bas deg zor-ze zot.

  Deg zor-ze zot.             Lapti nek to fade......


       Huttese Lyrics by Annie M Arbogast
       Music by John Williams
       Arranged by John & Joseph Williams & Ernire Fosellius.





       I am hoping that someone can clarify the original lyrics ( lyrics in
       english ). During the show 'Makings of RotJ' they sing Lapti nek.
       Is it true that Lapti nek means 'Just working out'. Can anyone else
       remember this.
                                                 Hope your like the lyrics
                                                    Templar
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.starwars
From: m1b@rayssd.ssd.ray.com (Barone)
Subject: Re: COLLECTIBLES: figures' market price
Summary: $16 is high
Keywords: R5-D4
Organization: Raytheon Submarine Signal Division, Portsmouth, RI
Distribution: na
Date: Fri, 31 Jul 1992 16:38:08 GMT

In article <1992Jul31.003124.14267@cs.unca.edu> mcmahan@cs.unca.edu (Scott
McMahan -- Genesis mailing list owner) writes:
> What's the going rate for action figures out of packages now?
> 
> Is $16 (US) good for R5-D4?
> 
> Where's the *cheapest* place, mail-order or otherwise, to get
> them?

	Whenever I go to any of the many toy shows in Massachusetts
and Rhode Island, I *always* see loose figures in huge bins going
for $3 to $5.  Some have accessories, some don't.  If you don't mind
being continually knocked over (the bins are on the floor) by the
other attendees (these shows are usually mobbed), you can find most
of the common figures.  To answer your question, I think $16 is high.
-- 
Joe Barone
m1b@rayssd.ssd.ray.com
Gentlemen!  You can't fight in here!  This is the War Room!
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.starwars
From: mcmahan@cs.unca.edu (Scott McMahan -- Genesis mailing list owner)
Subject: Star Wars action figure wanted: R5-D4
Organization: University of North Carolina at Asheville
X-Newsreader: Tin 1.1 PL3
Date: Sun, 26 Jul 1992 14:08:51 GMT


If anyone has this figure, or knows where to get it, or anyhting,
please let me know. Original packaging is not important.

Scott

Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.starwars
From: aa595@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Dan Duvall)
Subject: Re: ADDED scene?
Organization: Case Western Reserve University, Cleveland, Ohio, (USA)
Date: Fri, 31 Jul 92 13:13:34 GMT


Just to add to the confusion: I don't think I've EVER seen a shot
of Vader stabilizing his fighter and zooming off! I'll look for it
when my laserdisc arrives in a couple of weeks.

I do remember when I was very young seeing a t-shirt that said
"Darth Vader Lives," and I thought to myself something like
"nah-- his ship was way out of control. He'll be dead in the
next movie." Doesn't seem like I would've thought this after seeing
the initial theatrical release if it included a stabilization shot...

-- 
aa595@cleveland.freenet.edu  *  Dan Dooovall  *  Zone Czar
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.starwars