HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: feathers@serss0 (Michael Feathers)
Subject: Re: C CODE LAyout
Organization: Florida International University, Miami
Date: Tue, 15 Dec 1992 00:35:40 GMT

In article <MARTINC.92Dec14120615@hatteras.cs.unc.edu> 
someone, ..  I_do_not_know _if_it_is_ martinc@hatteras.cs.unc.edu (Charles R. Martin) writes:

>   I don't see any objection to comments
>   describing difficult points, unusual constructs, etc.--although I'm led to
>   a feeling that I have, that the way to fix obscure code is to remove the
>   obscurity, and that therefore commenting around it is an admission of
>   defeat.  Better to comment than to leave it obscure and unexplained, of
>   course!
>

I am a firm believer in minimal commenting of code.  I try to write every
method in a self-explanatory manner and I have a sure-fire way of discovering
whether the meaning of the code is explicit enough to not require commenting:

   I reach into the next cubicle at work and grab a fellow programmer by
   the lapels and ask him if he can understand what I'm doing with a 
   cursory glance.  Since we work on different projects, I know that he
   is not bringing background knowledge to the viewing.  I listen to what
   he says that he does not understand and I listen what I am motivated to
   tell him (anything that is non-obvious) then I document accordingly.


Right now I feel that comments are only for learning what is not obvious in the
code, and that comments can never be a substitute for reading the code when
learning a system.  In spite of this, I'd like to try a web system sometime
if one is developed for C++.

feathers@fiu.edu



Newsgroups: comp.software-eng
From: c162-ck@po.berkeley.edu (Igor Chizhevsky)
Subject: Re: FAQ 1: comp.software-eng questions and answers
Keywords: FAQ
Organization: University of California, at Berkeley
Date: Thu, 17 Dec 1992 08:01:47 GMT

This posting is for a friend.  
Please, respond to him directly.

For Sale:

        ALTERA

EPLD's Development System
MAX + PLUS II SOFTWARE
PLDS-HPS or PLS-HPS

If you are interested, respond to

Component Sales Inc.
3100 Dutton Ave, Suite 120
SantaRosa, Ca 95407
Tel: (707)525-8813
Fax: (707) 525-8956
Newsgroups: comp.software-eng
From: lamaster@pioneer.arc.nasa.gov (Hugh LaMaster)
Subject: Re: Commercial realities of porting (was: Request for reuse tool info)
Organization: NASA Ames Research Center, Moffett Field, CA
Date: Wed, 16 Dec 1992 18:59:30 GMT

In article <BzBD2w.E6w@NeoSoft.com>, claird@NeoSoft.com (Cameron Laird) writes:

(Many statements that I agree with completely deleted).

                                          For now,
|> though, my best judgment continues to be that
|> people overestimate the costs of porting source,
|> and underestimate the costs of supporting multiple
|> platforms.

I agree with everthing said, HOWEVER:

Never underestimate the value of maintaining source code which compiles
and runs correctly in many different architectures/environments.  In my
experience, the best software packages are those that have been rewritten
after multiple ports to eliminate the last vestiges of non-portability.
And, if there are bits and pieces which can't port, at least they can
be identified clearly, isolated, and even coelesced, with many benefits.
Porting and maintaining your code to/on Sun, DEC, SGI, HP, IBM, Convex ..., 
and, particularly, Cray, *can* add a tremendous amount to "quality" if the
process is done with the idea of producing a product which is as clean
as possible.

-- 
  Hugh LaMaster, M/S 233-9,     UUCP:      ames!lamaster
  NASA Ames Research Center     Internet:  lamaster@ames.arc.nasa.gov
  Moffett Field, CA 94035-1000  Or:        lamaster@george.arc.nasa.gov 
  Phone:  415/604-1056                     #include <usenet/std_disclaimer.h>
From: drake@Autodesk.COM (Dan Drake)
Newsgroups: comp.software-eng
Subject: Re: Is SEI's CMM being used in Anger or just Marketing?
Date: 17 Dec 92 20:51:05 GMT
Organization: Autodesk Inc., Sausalito CA, USA

kudzu@netcom.com (Michael Sierchio) writes:
> No, you just don't get it.  It doesn't mean that you can't engage in that
> activity until you've achieved a certain level in the model.

A reasonable answer.  I'm glad to hear this stated explicitly, because
the idea that 
  (a) CMM is a Good Thing and 
  (b) CMM says you can't really, effectively do Continuous Improvement
      till you get to Level 5
*does* exist, rather widely.  See recent postings on this thread for
evidence.

> ... You are engaging
> in an intentional fallacy.

Glad you know so much about my motivations.  Now, what bout the people
who *supported* this `fallacy' against my attack?

--
Dan Drake                 In software, the *complete* design *is* the software!
drake@Autodesk.com        --Hugh Lamaster
From: sr@seas.gwu.edu (Stan Rifkin)
Subject: Re: Is SEI's CMM being used in Anger or just Marketing?
Keywords: SEI CMM maturity level 2 independent software quality assurance
Organization: George Washington University
Date: Sun, 13 Dec 1992 12:44:17 GMT

In article <1992Dec7.094427@eklektix.com> rcd@raven.eklektix.com (Dick Dunn) writes:
>royce@mdcbbs.com (Royce D. Myers EDS/Unigraphics) writes:
>>rcd@raven.eklektix.com (Dick Dunn) writes:
>>> If, as has been repeated many times, moving up the CMM scale primarily aids
>>> predictability, repeatability, etc. of the process, but does not address
>>> the quality of the final result, then what programs *do* emphasize the
>>> expedient production of a quality result?
[...]
>A repeatable process is (arguably!) necessary to a quality result.  It is
>*NOT* sufficient.  What I'm trying to ask is whether there's some other set
>of measures imposed to try to check the quality.  Although I might argue,
>in a separate thread, against the CMM, what I'm trying to ask here is what
>additional approaches apply, to examine quality _per_se_ and directly,
>rather than through an indirect relationship.
>
>Rearranging words:  You're telling me that
>    If you don't have predictable process, you won't have quality result.
>I'm saying "OK, even if I accept that (which I don't in its complete gener-
>ality, but set that aside)..."
>    If you do have predictable process, it doesn't guarantee quality result.
>-- 
>Dick Dunn    rcd@raven.eklektix.com   -or-   raven!rcd    Boulder, Colorado

Where is quality in the SEI CMM? Everywhere, and specifically it is a
key process area at maturity level 2: independent software quality
assurance (ISQA). Tim Remple (in article 10342) effectively presents
the many faces and definitions of quality. Whatever quality is in a
particular organization and for a particular product, the function of
assuring that the product meets that definition falls to ISQA. Modern
authors (such as Deutsch and Willis in Software Quality Engineering,
Prentice-Hall, 1988) allocate to the ISQA function the duties of
helping the development organization define quality and helping to
achieve it. According to version 1.0 of the CMM, the following are the
goals of ISQA:

- Compliance of the software product and software process with
applicable standards, procedures, and product requirements is
independently confirmed.

- When there are compliance problems, management is aware of them.

- Senior management addresses noncompliance issues.

In addition, for every key process area at every maturity level, there
is a set of activities in the CMM that verifies implementation of the
key process area. This is also an ISQA function; it assures the
existence of processes.
Newsgroups: comp.software-eng
From: mueller@b30news.b30.ingr.com ( Phil Mueller )
Subject: Re: C CODE LAyout
Organization: Intergraph
Date: Tue, 15 Dec 1992 13:18:48 GMT

In article <MARTINC.92Dec11214534@hatteras.cs.unc.edu> martinc@hatteras.cs.unc.edu (Charles R. Martin) writes:
>
> [stuff deleted]
>
>I frankly have always found it very difficult to believe that anyone who
>suggests such a style has any professional software engineering
>experience.  My experience has *always* been that, on examination, the
>people who discourage detailed comments in code have spent their entire
>professional career in academic settings, writing code in a small group,
>with relatively little maintenance of code by anyone other than the
>author, and in general with products of only a few thousand lines of
>code.
>

I code with very few comments ( other than the infamous header ).
10 years at Intergraph.
10 programmers + support personnel ( i.e. management ). 
  ( not sure how this compares with other shops ).
with turnaround
plenty of maintenance by other people.
900000 lines in 6 years.
( first 2 years not a programmer; next 2 years on a failed project ).
-- 
Phil Mueller    mueller@b30news.b30.ingr.com
The preceeding opinions are not necessarily those of Intergraph Corporation.
Newsgroups: comp.software-eng
From: sascha@uropax.contrib.de (Sascha Zumbusch)
Subject: makefile analyzer?
Summary: makefile analyzer needed
Keywords: make analyzer
Organization: Contributed Software GbR
Date: Mon, 14 Dec 1992 15:37:10 GMT

Hi outthere,

just a simple question: there has been some talking about makefile analyzers.
Unfortunately I don't remember the sources of it.
Any hints where to get stuff like that?

Thanx in advance,

Sascha
-- 
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Sascha Zumbusch          Contributed Software     "To push UNIX,
			 Greafestr. 76             sell it!!!!!"
030/694 69 07		 1000 Berlin 61
From: bagwill@swe.ncsl.nist.gov (Bob Bagwill)
Newsgroups: comp.software-eng
Subject: Re: C CODE LAyout
Date: 11 Dec 92 18:39:55 GMT
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1 PL6]

: In article 944@seq.uncwil.edu, herbst@seq.uncwil.edu (R.T. Herbst) writes:
: >
: >On the subject of C CODE layout.
: >I require my students to use the following format. 
: 
: Why in the world would you REQUIRE students to use a particular
: coding style? Coding style is one of the things that makes each
: programmer unique and lends some "art" to this thing we call
: programming!

Why do children have to follow a handwriting style when they learn
to write?  Why do they have to learn spelling conventions when they
learn to spell?  Why can't every child invent their own script and
their own unique way of spelling words?  Artistry is more important
than legibility!

--
bob bagwill	i rite this wei bekuz aim artixic
Newsgroups: comp.software-eng
From: claird@NeoSoft.com (Cameron Laird)
Subject: Commercial realities of porting (was: Request for reuse tool info)
Organization: NeoSoft Communications Services -- (713) 684-5900
Date: Tue, 15 Dec 1992 18:37:44 GMT

In article <1992Dec15.064809.25388@netcom.com> mcgregor@netcom.com (Scott Mcgregor) writes:
>In article <Bz9Kzo.HAM@unx.sas.com> julian@vanuliet.unx.sas.com (Phil Julian) writes:
>
>>From this scenario, reuse is bad for resumes.  What do other
>>programmers or employers value more -- reusing old code or writing
>>original code?  The problem may be our own attitudes and the attitudes
>>of the marketplace.  Reuse is not valued as an intrinsic skill.  I
I so value it.
			.
			.
			.
>This is, for example, part of SAS Institute's competative advantage,
>that they have designed their product in such a way that much of it
>can be mounted on a new computer system with just a re-compile, which
>makes adding a new system to the support list relatively more
>inexpensive, faster and reliable than a ground up port.
Change of subject:  is that the best way to tell the
story?  I've worked on a lot of porting during the
last couple of decades.  I know that it is possible
and desirable for the narrow-sense source code--C
and FORTRAN implementations, associated headers,
that sort of thing--to move very, very cleanly from
one environment to another.  HOWEVER, in my experi-
ence, the cost of the port is overwhelmingly
dominated not by such programming language consider-
ations, but by
1.  maintenance on a new platform;
2.  quality assurance on a new platform;
3.  documentation for a new platform; and
4.  customer support for a new platform.
The first and last of these are the killers.  More
than once, I've spent weeks on the telephone, ar-
ranging for suitable hardware, then moved several
hundreds of thousands of lines of source and gen-
erated a product from them in under twenty-four
hours.  Even then, a perfectly functional applica-
tion can be better off sitting on the shelf, because
maintaining the hardware to support it might cost
more than any conceivable revenues.

Time will dilute these conclusions.  As hardware
become relatively cheaper and more standardized,
it will be more and more realistic to have a 
machine room filled with "one of each".  For now,
though, my best judgment continues to be that
people overestimate the costs of porting source,
and underestimate the costs of supporting multiple
platforms.
			.
			.
			.
-- 

Cameron Laird
claird@Neosoft.com (claird%Neosoft.com@uunet.uu.net)	+1 713 267 7966
claird@litwin.com (claird%litwin.com@uunet.uu.net)  	+1 713 996 8546
Newsgroups: comp.software-eng
From: mat@mole-end.matawan.nj.us
Subject: Re: C code Layout
Summary: Final causes ...
Organization: :
Date: Wed, 16 Dec 1992 15:20:26 GMT

> >back to Bryant, who talks about the difference between useless comments,
> >like:
> >>   i = i + 1;   /* Increment i */
> >(no argument here, of course)

> >....and useful, necessary explanations like:

> >>   /*
> >>    *  We are now done with the code for widget i, and while
> >>    *  the "for" loop will increment i again, we want to skip
> >>    *  the next widget and so we increment i here as well.
> >>    */

> >>   i = i + 1;

> >The *idea* of commenting this situation is good.  You don't want somebody
> >looking at it, wondering whether the increment is supposed to be there or
> >was left over from a different sequence, etc...it's a good situation for
> >stopping to describe what's going on.  It's the realization that is bad.
> >(To a C programmer, the first problem is that the code should be
> >    i++;

Pardon me for flaming, but ...

You are all of you looking in the wrong direction.

Any programmer can tell that i++ or i += 1 or i = 1 + 1 will increment
the value.  And, with a little context, it should be clear that it means
that the next widget will get skipped.  (If it is not clear, the code
has other problems.)

But none of you, and none of this code, has addressed the ONE THING for
which comments are necessary, the ONE THING which they can do that code
can never do, no matter how good.

You haven't asked, much less answered, the ONE QUESTION that can assure
us that this code is doing The Right Thing.

You haven't told us

	WHY WE SHOULD BE SKIPPING THE NEXT WIDGET.

What need is answered by skipping that widget?  To what end, for the
satisfaction of what final cause, must that execrable, unspeakable,
fetid, repellant, malodorous, pestilential, obscene, shameful, squalid,
fulsome, abominable, noxious, rank, infamous next widget be skipped?

Tell me that, and then let me read your code to see what you've done
about it.

``Say what you mean, mean what you say, do what you said you would do.''

-- 
 (This man's opinions are his own.)
 From mole-end				Mark Terribile

 mat@mole-end.matawan.nj.us, Somewhere in Matawan, NJ
From: kambic@iccgcc.decnet.ab.com (Bonus, Iniquus, Celer - Delegitus Duo)
Newsgroups: comp.software-eng
Subject: Followup on N/S diagram editors
Date: 17 Dec 92 10:21:27 EST

I recently posted a request for information about N/S diagrams.  I found out
yesterday that apparently our news feed is working only one way, out.  I
received one email (thanks), but do not know if anything else was posted.  If
so, could you please grab  the post, and email it to me.  Thanks

Hey, I can write anything and not be flamed! (Yea!)

But I can't read any new stuff! (Sob!)

Oh well, until better computer health arrives.

George Kambic
kambic@iccgcc.decnet.ab.com
standard disclaimer

Newsgroups: comp.software-eng
From: csc@unislc.uucp (Steve Champion)
Subject: Re: Licence server products wanted.
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1 PL6]
Organization: Unisys Corporation SLC
Date: Wed, 16 Dec 1992 01:33:09 GMT

Carl Oppedahl (oppedahl@panix.com) wrote:
: In <1992Dec11.113330.5313@iesd.auc.dk> tolboel@iesd.auc.dk (Morten Tolboel) writes:
: 
: 
: >Can anyone tell me where to buy a licence server package to be build
: >into the application I am working with? As a minimum the package
: >should offer the following functionality:
: 
: Seems to me somebody should write a FAQ about this.  I have seen this
: question posted here dozens of times recently.  (No offense meant to the
: present poster.)
: 
: I'm just noting that the question comes up again and again.
: 
: I have heard that SPA (Software Publishers Association) in Washington
: has info on this, too.
: 
: 
: Carl Oppedahl AA2KW  (intellectual property lawyer)
: 30 Rockefeller Plaza
: New York, NY  10112-0228
: voice 212-408-2578     fax 212-765-2519

Also, try Gradient Technologies 508-562-2882. They do everything you want
plus more and they run on all the plaforms you want.


-- 

      +------+  +------  +------+   C. Steven Champion
     /      /  /        /      /    Unisys Corp. UNIX Systems Group
    /         +-----+  /            San Jose, CA
From: bassett@hpcss01.cup.hp.com (Diane Bassett)
Date: Wed, 16 Dec 1992 00:51:23 GMT
Subject: Re: Licence server products w
Organization: Hewlett Packard, Cupertino
Newsgroups: comp.software.licensing

Another license management package is NetLS from Hewlett Packard.  It has
been accepted as a standard by OSF.  It is currently available on multiple
platforms, and offers the license types mentioned by an earlier poster.  It
also offers management reports that help MIS depts. understand who is using
software licenses and when, etc.
From: sss@world.std.com (Sergiu S Simmel)
Newsgroups: comp.software.licensing
Subject: Re: Licence server products wanted.
Date: 21 Dec 92 00:15:16 GMT
Organization: Penobscot Development Corporation, Arlington MA

>>>>> On 16 Dec 92 00:31:06 GMT, kg@elan.Elan.COM (Ken Greer) said:

> Can anyone tell me where to buy a licence server package ..
> should offer the following functionality:
>  - node locked licenses
>  - floating licenses
>  - time limited (demo) licenses
>  - portable to (at least) the following platforms: SunOS, AIX, SCO-ODT
>    and soon some other UNIX workstations
>  - based on "hostid" when available

If ...

- you need the above functionality, and done in a highly secure and
  robust fashion,
- need or may need in the future to license not only access to your
  program's functions, but also to data (simple examples: fonts, clip
  art, custom setups, custom or general purpose scripts, etc.)
- may also want to experiment with "pay-per-use" arrangements, in
  addition to the "pay-per-copy" arrangement (classic licensing),
- could also use a robust, distributed, and highly efficient
  repository for your data without the overhead of a DBMS, with much
  more functionality in the areas of data storage/retrieval and
  visibility management,

... then you may want to take a very good look at a persistent data
server from Penobscot Development Corp. The name of the product is
'Kala', and you can get information about it by writing to:

	kala-request@world.std.com
Newsgroups: comp.software.licensing
From: richard.mirabella@spacebbs.com (Richard Mirabella) 
Newsgroups: comp.software.licensing
Subject: Licence server products w
Date: 12 Dec 92 19:28:00 GMT
Distribution: world
Organization: SPACE BBS - Menlo Park, CA - 10 Lines + 4gB - 415-323-4193
Reply-To: richard.mirabella@spacebbs.com (Richard Mirabella) 

MT>I have heard of a product from Highland Software (used by some Sun
  >products) but I do not know if this product is available to other
  >platforms.

MT>Please send me info of licence server packages and suppliers. If the
  >suppliers have European or even Danish offices please say so.


Highland Software distributes FLEXlm in Europe through:

Productivity Through Software (PTS)
Carrington Business Park
Urmston, Manchester
Tel. (44)61 776 4499
FAX  (44)61 776 2050

It is also available on over 20 platforms.  
 
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Richard Mirabella             
President                     Address: 355 Kellogg Ave.
Marketing Technologists                Palo Alto, CA 94301
(415)325-7567                     CIS: 76520,2073
(415)325-3006 (FAX)          Internet: 76520.2073@compuserve.com
------------------------------------------------------------------------

               Rich     76520.2073@compuserve.com

 * 1st 1.01 #884 * 
                        
From: dww@nsmdserv.CND.HP.COM (Dave Wright)
Date: Wed, 16 Dec 1992 19:19:24 GMT
Subject: Re: Licence server products wanted.
Organization: HP Network and System Management Division
Newsgroups: comp.software.licensing

/ nsmdserv:comp.software.licensing / kg@elan.Elan.COM (Ken Greer) /  5:31 pm  Dec 15, 1992 /
> Can anyone tell me where to buy a licence server package ..
> should offer the following functionality:
>  - node locked licenses
>  - floating licenses
>  - time limited (demo) licenses
>  - portable to (at least) the following platforms: SunOS, AIX, SCO-ODT
>    and soon some other UNIX workstations
>  - based on "hostid" when available

All the above functionality and a lot more is available 
with the Elan License Manager.  Elan License Manager has as one
of its major claims to fame in that it is very easy for end-users
to install.  For details, contact:

                           Elan Computer Group, Inc.
                          888 Villa Street, 3rd Floor
                            Mountain View, CA 94041
                              Phone: 415-964-2200
                               FAX: 415-964-8588

----------
From: kg@elan.Elan.COM (Ken Greer)
Newsgroups: comp.software.licensing
Subject: Re: Licence server products wanted.
Date: 16 Dec 92 00:31:06 GMT
Organization: Elan Computer Group, Inc., Mountain View, CA

> Can anyone tell me where to buy a licence server package ..
> should offer the following functionality:
>  - node locked licenses
>  - floating licenses
>  - time limited (demo) licenses
>  - portable to (at least) the following platforms: SunOS, AIX, SCO-ODT
>    and soon some other UNIX workstations
>  - based on "hostid" when available

All the above functionality and a lot more is available 
with the Elan License Manager.  Elan License Manager has as one
of its major claims to fame in that it is very easy for end-users
to install.  For details, contact:

                           Elan Computer Group, Inc.
                          888 Villa Street, 3rd Floor
                            Mountain View, CA 94041
                              Phone: 415-964-2200
                               FAX: 415-964-8588

From: dww@nsmdserv.CND.HP.COM (Dave Wright)
Date: Tue, 15 Dec 1992 18:45:25 GMT
Subject: Re: Licence server products w
Organization: HP Network and System Management Division
Newsgroups: comp.software.licensing

You might also try NetLS, which is the OSF standard.  Available from:

	Gradient Technologies
	577 Main Street, Suite 4
	Hudson, MA  07149

	508-562-2882
Newsgroups: comp.software.licensing
From: oppedahl@panix.com (Carl Oppedahl)
Subject: Re: Licence server products wanted.
Date: Mon, 14 Dec 1992 21:44:58 GMT
Organization: PANIX Public Access Unix, NYC

In <1992Dec11.113330.5313@iesd.auc.dk> tolboel@iesd.auc.dk (Morten Tolboel) writes:


>Can anyone tell me where to buy a licence server package to be build
>into the application I am working with? As a minimum the package
>should offer the following functionality:

Seems to me somebody should write a FAQ about this.  I have seen this
question posted here dozens of times recently.  (No offense meant to the
present poster.)

I'm just noting that the question comes up again and again.

I have heard that SPA (Software Publishers Association) in Washington
has info on this, too.


Carl Oppedahl AA2KW  (intellectual property lawyer)
30 Rockefeller Plaza
New York, NY  10112-0228
voice 212-408-2578     fax 212-765-2519
From: dww@nsmdserv.CND.HP.COM (Dave Wright)
Date: Wed, 16 Dec 1992 20:53:57 GMT
Subject: Re: Licence server products wanted.
Organization: HP Network and System Management Division
Newsgroups: comp.software.licensing

Sorry, operator error on previous response.  Please disregard.