From: plante@IRO.UMontreal.CA (Frederic Plante)
Newsgroups: can.politics
Subject: Re: Access to English school: quotes
Date: 1 Sep 92 18:37:44 GMT
Distribution: can
Organization: Universite de Montreal



thood@corvus.matrox.com (Thomas Hood) writes:

>Let me begin by saying that I think Steve Potter's use of the word
>"racist" is a mistake, even if he only applied it to pieces of legislation,
>and not to Quebecers themselves.  The mistake is not in seeing
>a preoccupation with tribe where there is none; there clearly is such a
>preoccupation.  The mistake is in using an inflammatory word whose
>negative connotations are out of proportion with what is being described.
>Everyone agrees (at least) that racism is very bad, and it is tempting to
>exploit this by trying to transfer the discredit onto the subject of
>comparison.  As a debating tactic, it is cheap, but as a provocation,
>quite effective.  Let us not provoke one another.

D'accord.

>Now, Frederic:
>I think you have misunderstood.  The current eligibility rules are
>discriminatory not because they discriminate among immigrants, but because
>they discriminate between Quebec's linguistic communities: the French
>community is to be preserved (as we all agree), but the English is to
>be eliminated.  It works as follows.

>The English may hope that deaths may be replaced by as many births
>(though they aren't today), and that migration to other provinces may be
>replaced by migration from other provinces (though it isn't today), but
>under the present rules, emigrants from Canada can never be replaced by
>immigrants to Canada.  Barring a massive strike at all the birth control
>device manufacturers and a raft of hydro blackouts, the decline of the
>English population becomes a mathematical certainty.

Je suis d'accord que la communaute anglophone quebecoise est en declin,
mais ce n'etait le but de la loi 101 (malgre qu'elle en est en partie
la cause, mais peut-on imputer a cette loi l'exode des anglophones du
Quebec?).

>Given the fact that the anglophone population of Quebec is declining
>faster than the francophone population, rules that allow the English
>community to assimilate a lower proportion of immigrants (I.E. none)
>than their proportion of the population imply that the English community
>is less worthy of preservation.  That's discrimination.  Franco-Quebecois
>rights of survival do not detract from the same Anglo-Quebecois rights.

>Or do they?  If you think so, then say so explicitly, Frederic and others.
>Not wanting to speak for him and Denis, I can still say that many
>nationalists do seem to believe that it would be "no loss" if the English
>Quebecers were eliminated.  They imply it when they speak of 300 million
>(indistinguishable) English-speakers.  They suggest it when they describe
>all the English as bigots, and that is why we have discriminatory
>laws today.

Ca ne me derange pas que la communaute anglophone se defende et veuille 
survivre.  Ca ne me derange pas que la communaute anglophone demande des
modifications a la loi 101 pour stopper le declin du reseau scolaire
anglophone.  Et meme, ca ne me derangerait pas que la loi 101 soit 
modifiee (mais quelles modifications, je ne sais pas; je crois que de
permettre seulement aux immigrants de pays anglophones d'etre eduques
en anglais serait inconstitutionnel; d'autre part, le libre choix 
est inacceptable pour la majorite qui se souvient de la situation d'avant
1977).

Mais ce qui m'enerve le plus, c'est la rhetorique utilisee par les groupes
de pressions anglophones, tres bien illustree par M. Potter.  Ils utilisent
la notion sacro-sainte de droits individuels pour defendre la notion
de libre-choix de la langue d'enseignement (libre-choix?  et l'immigrant
polonais, lui, il a le libre-choix?), quand, finalement, il est evident
qu'ils defendent les interets collectifs de la communaute anglophone
(empecher le declin du reseau scolaire).

Je suis convaincu qui si la loi 101 etait amendee comme le demande le rapport
Chambers, le combat que mene certains anglophones comme M. Potter s'arreterait
aussitot.  Dans le cas de ce dernier, il aurait obtenu ce qu'il voulait,
envoyer ses enfants a l'ecole anglaise.

Bref, je trouve que le discours de la communaute anglophone (de ses
groupes de pression) est un peu hypocrite.   

>With all due respect, however, it is not their decision to make, and so
>long as they continue to discriminate against the English in this way,
>there will be no peace in Quebec... only fatigue.

Alors, arretez la culpabilisation des francophones avec vos arguments
de liberte individuelle.  C'est hypocrite, et ca fait chier bien du monde.
Et aux anglophones hors Quebec, arretez d'ecoeurer les quebecois en leur
disant qu'ils traitent mal leurs minorites.  Les minorites au Quebec
sont mieux traitees que partout au Canada (dernierement, j'ai vu
des statistiques sur la langue d'enseignement des autochtones; au Quebec,
77% des eleves autochtones recoivent leur education dans leur langue; la
moyenne au CSQ et de 42%; en Colombie-Britannique, il n'y a que 29% des
eleves autochtones qui sont eduques dans leur langue).


Frederic Plante
Newsgroups: can.politics