HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: kst@telesoft.com (Keith Thompson @pulsar)
Subject: Re: Number of numbers (Was Re: PI)
Organization: TeleSoft, San Diego, CA, USA
Date: Fri, 1 Jan 1993 15:17:28 GMT

In article <1993Jan1.014006.29832@icaen.uiowa.edu> dsiebert@icaen.uiowa.edu (Doug Siebert) writes:
> kst@telesoft.com (Keith Thompson @pulsar) writes:
> 
> > Each integer can be described by a finite string of ASCII characters.
> > What is the smallest positive integer not describable by a string of
> > 100 or fewer ASCII characters?  Isn't this integer described by the
> > string "the smallest positive integer not describable by a string of
> > 100 or fewer ASCII characters"?
> 
> Doesn't look like a pardox at all.  The answer is the first question seems to
> me to be: (assuming a set of 128 ASCII characters)
> 
> 1 (the null string) + 128 (128 different 1 character strings) + 128^2 (that
> many different two character strings) + ... + 128^100.
> 
> The answer to the second question is no, because that string would already be
> reserved for some number in the set 128^90.

I think you're assuming that the numbers describable in 100-character
string are consecutive.  This is true if you interpret the string as a
12800-bit binary number, but not if you allow arithmetic notation.  For
example, the string "10^10^10^10^10" (where "^" is exponentiation,
which associates right-to-left) describes an integer much larger than
anything representable in 12800 bits of simple binary notation.  The
string "Graham's Number" describes an even larger integer.  There are
many integers smaller than 10^10^10^10^10 which cannot be represented
in 100 ASCII characters.  Clearly, whatever notation you use, there
can't be more than 2^12800 integers describable in 100 characters.
(I'm ignoring shorter strings, but you get the idea.)

The trick is to rigorously define the notation used to describe the
numbers; I ignored this issue in my original posting.  For the paradox
to arise, the notation must be powerful enough to express the concept
of describability.  This makes it susceptible to Goedel's
incompleteness theorem.

I don't know enough math to describe how the paradox is resolved, or
even to guarantee that what I'm saying is entirely correct.

Hmmm.  Should this be in sci.math?
-- 
Keith Thompson (The_Other_Keith)  kst@telesoft.com
TeleSoft, 5959 Cornerstone Court West, San Diego, CA, 92121-9891
"Listen to me, people!  We must stick them with quills -- it's the only way!"
From: dem@cs.princeton.edu (Doron Meyer)
Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers
Subject: Re: CLI/GUI wars (was Re: Apple IIGS being discontinued...)
Date: 1 Jan 93 20:11:07 GMT
Organization: Princeton University Computer Science Department
Originator: dem@kastle

In article <19096@mindlink.bc.ca> Jeremy_Reimer@mindlink.bc.ca (Jeremy Reimer) writes:
>Mac:
>
>CLI: None (standard System only)

Umm, no.  This is an annoyingly common misconception.  First, there are
three Unixs that run in tandem with the MacOS (i.e., while Mac applications
are running, and are able to manipulate MacOS volumes, not as a completely
seperate operating system) namely, A/UX, MachTen, and MacMach.  I've seen
a few lame attempts at a CLI application under MacOS, but there are some
excellent CLIs worth mentioning.  Alpha 5.2, an emacsish editor for MacOS,
is based on Tickle, which is based on TCL, the script language.  Alpha
has a mini-shell ability that implements basic Unix file manipulation
commands.

However, starting with System 7.0, Apple has included AppleEvents in the
MacOS.  AppleEvents are a form of interapp communication that allow apps
to control other apps.  Frontier is a top-notch, fully featured
script language that supports AppleEvents.  You can, for instance, have it
open up a document in Microsoft Word, select a printer, and print.  More
and more apps are adding more than the standard necessary events (like
open a document, save, quit) to allow control by apps like Frontier.  For
instance, one can control Stuffit, a compression utility, completely by
AppleEvents.  To my knowledge, there is no other OS that supports a CLI
actively controlling GUI applications.

Doron
Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers
From: alderson@cisco.com (Rich Alderson)
Subject: Re: What is so greate about the PDP 10?
Originator: alderson@leland.Stanford.EDU
Keywords: PDP 10, gods gift to hackers, TOPS, ITS
Reply-To: alderson@cisco.com (Rich Alderson)
Organization: Cisco Systems (MIS)
Date: Wed, 30 Dec 92 21:17:59 GMT

In article <1h7ehjINNh2p@gap.caltech.edu>, kby@cco (Kimo B. Yap) writes:
>alderson@cisco.com (Rich Alderson) writes:
>
>>In article <1gu1tcINNgiu@gap.caltech.edu>, kby@cco (Kimo B. Yap) writes:
>>>Oh, come on.  For the full KL architecture spec, the address space is approx.
>>>equiv. to 2^34 - 2^35 "bytes" (using 8 bit byte terminology).  That's more
>>>than the vax.  Half of that is user space, same as the VAX.-kby
>
>>Perhaps on Bottoms-10 half is taken away by the operating-system stuff, but on
>>Tops-20 a user program is unrestricted in its address-space usage.
>
>No, this isn't a TOPS-10ism.  By half, and in the numbers included above, I
>meant that half of that virtual space is executive mode and the other half is
>user mode.  Twenex doesn't let you run in exec mode any more than TOPS-10.-kby

But running in exec mode is an entirely different issue than how large the
address space can be.  They're completely unrelated, at least in Tops-20.

I think I see what you're getting at, though.  The highest section in most user
programs was 37, that is, 23 address bits out of 24 supported by the microcode.
OK.  But it's not exec vs. user mode, at least not directly.

I would describe the coolism of having 4 rather than 2 run states, but all my
Tops-20 manuals are in a storage locker 6 miles from where I'm writing, so I
can't just jump up and check on this to get it right.  Never mind that Tops-20
didn't use two of them--they were there, if we needed them.  :-)
-- 
Rich Alderson   'I wish life was not so short,' he thought.  'Languages take
                such a time, and so do all the things one wants to know about.'
                                                        --J. R. R. Tolkien,
alderson@leland.stanford.edu                              _The Lost Road_
Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers
From: gilles@well.sf.ca.us (Gilles Poitras)
Subject: Re: Library of Congress as a size metric
Organization: Whole Earth 'Lectronic Link
Distribution: usa
Date: Sat, 2 Jan 1993 16:01:26 GMT


Louis Koziarz you ask about the LC as a measure of data.
Have you considered the fact that the LC is not the depositry of US
publication? The LC does not attempt to collect what is published in the US,
it does catalog much of it and then gets rid of the books it does not want.
There is another system, RLIN, the Research Libraries Information Network
that is an electronic catalog of many research libraries including LC, the
Canadian Nat'l Library, the British Nat'l Library, NY Public and many
institutes, universities, corporations etc. Last count nearly 50,000,000
book records alone. Lotsa stuff.
Lets get the figure for LC and then see if we can estimate the figure for
RLIN, should be alot of CDs.
Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers
From: pt@geovision.gvc.com (Paul Tomblin)
Subject: Re: Apple IIGS being discontinued Dec 1992
Reply-To: pt@geovision.gvc.com
Organization: Not officially GeoVision Systems Inc., Ottawa, Ontario
Date: Mon, 21 Dec 1992 00:06:51 GMT

cheryl@gallant.apple.com (Cheryl Lins) writes:

>form of writing shell commands). But that's a discussion best suited for the
>'famous flame wars' thread (GUI vs command line). And I have better things to
>do than spend time trying to convince you otherwise or start a new flame war.

Well, there is a simple way of proving that you 'have better things to do
than ... start a new flame war': Don't hit "F" everytime you see a posting
you disagree with.  This is a simple truth, but it seems to elude so many
people on the net: if you want a flame war to stop - stop participating in
it.

Cheryl is trying to have it both ways, posting an opinion in the flame war,
and then making this statement about having better things to do.  I on the
other hand am not going to express an opinion one way or the other - because
I'm not a hypocrite.

-- 
Paul Tomblin, pt@compass.gvc.com
(This is not an official opinion of GeoVision Systems Inc.)
I've always wanted to know what's around the next bend
   - Herman Smith (Jackrabbit) Johansen. 1875-1983
Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers
From: peter@NeoSoft.com (Peter da Silva)
Subject: Re: What is so greate about the PDP 10?
Organization: NeoSoft Communications Services -- (713) 684-5900
Date: Tue, 22 Dec 1992 10:13:48 GMT

In article <1992Dec21.134957.15696@spatula.rent.com> azog@spatula.rent.com (Billy D'Augustine) writes:
> Can someone explain to me the IBM PC model number 3270?

The PC-3270 was a PC with the hardware to emulate a 3270 (mostly the
synchronous I/O stuff and keyboard, but it wouldn't surprise me to find
it used special video too).

> (sad story, but they used to take hammers to such 
> wonders as PDP-8s, because they had no 'value'...).

Sounds like time to take hammers to the owners.
-- 
Peter da Silva.  <peter@sugar.neosoft.com>.
 `-_-'   Oletko halannut suttasi tnn?
  'U`    
Tarjoilija, tm ateria el viel.
From: kucharsk@solbourne.com (William Kucharski)
Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers
Subject: Re: Old Disney Films, was Re: Apple II Games
Date: 28 Dec 1992 01:37:16 -0700
Organization: Solbourne Computer, Inc., Longmont, CO
NNTP-Posting-Host: funhouse.solbourne.com

While reading article <Bznvu8.61@geovision.gvc.com>, I noticed that
pt@geovision.gvc.com said the following:
 >No - but I used to play "Raster Blaster" on the Apple II when I ran out of
 >quarters.  Definitely inspired by Williams pinball machines - fast, light
 >action on the flippers.  Too bad you couldn't knudge it, though.

Firepower, to be exact.  I always thought it curious that the Apple software
companies (and Bill Budge) made such a big deal out of piracy yet Raster
Blaster was pretty much a direct clone of a real machine...
-- 
| William Kucharski, Solbourne Computer, Inc.     | Opinions expressed herein
| Internet: kucharsk@solbourne.com   Ham: N0OKQ   | are MINE alone, NOT those
| Snail Mail: 1900 Pike Road, Longmont, CO  80501 | of Solbourne Computer, Inc.
| President, "Just the Ten of Us" Fan Club        | "Dittos from Longmont, CO"
Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers
From: slb22@cunixb.cc.columbia.edu (Seth "the Lesser")
Subject: Re: New "Hello" program
Organization: Generic American College Kids (G.A.C.K.)
Date: Thu, 24 Dec 1992 14:46:20 GMT
Reply-To: slb22@cunixb.cc.columbia.edu (Seth "the Lesser")
X-Posted-From: cunixb.cc.columbia.edu
NNTP-Posting-Host: sol.ctr.columbia.edu

sloth@yoyo.cc.monash.edu.au (Andrew Bulhak) writes:
>Dave Brown (dagbrown@napier.uwaterloo.ca) wrote:
>>slb22@cunixb.cc.columbia.edu (Seth "the Lesser") writes:
>>>
>>>Well, he was the first into my global killfile, which now has six entries,
>>>two of which are for Dannie-boy, one for some schmuck whose caps lock key
>>>is jammed, and one for the idiot who kept posting his homework problems
>>>here.
>>>
>>>alt.fan.dannie-drucker, anyone?
>>
>>What a wonderful idea!  
>>%-)
>
>No, make that alt.fan.dannie-drucker.weenie.weenie.weenie. :-)
>(alternatively, use the word 'whacker', whic the Jargon file says, is
>one who calls himself a wizard despite the opinions of everyone else...)

Or we could resurrect a bit of dying slang that originated right here at
Columbia U. and refer to him as a "wank" (see Jargon File at least since
2.9.6).  I think calling him a "wanker" would be giving him too much credit.

So.  alt.fan.dannie-drucker.wank.wank.wank it is, then?

Seth L. Blumberg          \ Warning: This posting has been determined to cause
slb22@columbia.edu (play)   \ cancer in laboratory animals.  Please make sure
sethb@ctr.columbia.edu (work) \ that no white mice are allowed to read it.  
    > No one I know shares my opinions, least of all Columbia University. <
Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers
From: Szymon Rusinkiewicz <smr2@cornell.edu>
Subject: Re: PI
Organization: Totally Disorganized...
Date: Fri, 1 Jan 93 19:50:58 GMT

Magnus Olsson (magnus@thep.lu.se) writes:
>In article <1992Dec28.195328.19162@icaen.uiowa.edu> dsiebert@icaen.uiowa.edu (Doug Siebert) writes:
>>samuel@front.se writes:
>>
>>>One interesting fact about PI (and most of the non-rational/non-algebraic)
>>>numbers is that since PI has an infinite number of decimals, which appear in
>>>a non-systemathic fashion, then statistically this statement ought to be 
>>>correct : Somwhere in the decimals of PI, one can find any given arbitrary
>>>sequence of numbers, e.g. 10^100 number 7 (7777...7777; 10^100 7s in a row) !
>>
>>It isn't proven (to my knowledge at least) that PI is nonterminating.  

>SIGH. Don't they teach you anything at school nowadays?

>It *is* proven, and indeed it's one of the best-publicized results of
>19th-century mathematics, that pi is not only irrational (i.e. its
>decimal expansion is nonterminating), but transcendental as well
>(which means that it's not the root of any algebraic equation). The
>methods used to prove this have nothing whatsoever to do with
>calculating a lot of digits of pi and seeing whether the decimal
>expansion terminates or not.

OK, I just thought I'd throw in my $.02 worth...

Numbers can be (among other things):

Irrational - This means that they cannot be expressed in the form a/b, with a,b
integers. As a consequence, a number is irrational iff it has a noterminating,
nonrepeating decimal representation.

Transcendental - This means thaty are not roots of an algebraic equation.

Normal - This means that digits in the decimal representation occur in a
statistically random distribution, i.e. ON AVERAGE one out of ten digits is a
7, one out of 100 pairs of digits is 77, one out of 1000 triples is 777, etc.


Now, PI has been proven to be irrational and transcendental, so it is KNOWN
that the decimal representation of pi is nonterminating and nonrepeating.
It is STRONGLY BELIEVED that pi is normal, which would imply the statistical
oddities stated above, but (to my knowledge) this has never been rigorously
proven, despite many statistical checks on computer-generated decimal
expansions of pi which tend to suggest that it is true.

SMR
---
/---Szymon-Rusinkiewicz-<smr2@cornell.edu>------------------------------------\
|                                    | The optimist proclaims that we live in |
|                ___                 | the best of all possible worlds, and   |
|               (o o)                | the pessimist fears that this is true. |
\------------ooO-(_)-Ooo-------------*----------------------------------------/
Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers
From: lasner@watsun.cc.columbia.edu (Charles Lasner)
Subject: Re: CLI/GUI wars (was Re: Apple IIGS being discontinued...)
Reply-To: lasner@watsun.cc.columbia.edu (Charles Lasner)
Organization: Columbia University
Date: Mon, 4 Jan 1993 02:06:49 GMT

In article <STEVEV.93Jan3130839@miser.uoregon.edu> stevev@miser.uoregon.edu (Steve VanDevender) writes:
>
>Sounds like you need to put in some flight time on a real
>computer.  DOS does support I/O redirection, but CTTY is not what
>does it (CTTY supposedly lets you change the console device,
>although hardly anyone ever uses it).  MS-DOS does not support

Programs like LAPLINK use CTTY.  The remote user types a DOS MODE command to
set the baud rate, and then the CTTY command to set a comm port to be the
input source for the command processor, etc.  Then LAPLINK sends the commands
out and proceeds to install itself.  From then onward, it is running in both
machines sending/receiving from either end.

>
>The original MS-DOS COMMAND.COM does not provide command history
>(it does not store previously entered commands for later recall).
>Of course, there are a lot of TSRs that attempt to provide it.

DR-DOS can do this as a standard option if enabled.  BTW, DR-DOS is totally
compatible and is a replacement system for all *documented* features.

cjl
Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers
Subject: Re: What is so greate about the PDP 10?
From: don@zl2tnm.gen.nz (Don Stokes)
Date: 23 Dec 92 07:21:00 GMT
Distribution: world
Organization: The Wolery

azog@spatula.rent.com (Billy D'Augustine) writes:
> I even remember a complete PDP-11/70 system, in about 4 or 5 19"
> racks. Had a lot of BA11 expansion boxes, and a TU16... Was there
> such a thing as an -11/60? Also (youll cry), at least one genuine
> 11/20. All gone :-(

Yes, there was an 11/60.  Unibus machine, only 18 bit, with octal front
panel (like the /34).  The interesting part of it was the writable 
control store.

The 11/60 was arguably the largest PDP-8 -- the WPS-8 development team
allegedly used one with custom microcode in the WCS to emulate an -8,
while letting them do development under RSTS or RSX or whatever they used.

--
Don Stokes, ZL2TNM (DS555)                        don@zl2tnm.gen.nz (home)
Network Manager, Computing Services Centre            don@vuw.ac.nz (work)
Victoria University of Wellington, New Zealand              +64-4-495-5052
Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers,alt.religion.kibology,alt.folklore.urban
From: kibo@world.std.com (James "Kibo" Parry)
Subject: Re: Proper pronunciation of 'Kibo' IN BED
Organization: Two rooms filled with typography, in downtown Boston
Date: Tue, 22 Dec 1992 03:04:34 GMT

In article <JKONRATH.92Dec19211424@bronze.ucs.indiana.edu> jkonrath@bronze.ucs.indiana.edu (Jon Konrath) writes:
>I wonder if I could convince local admins to rename our NNTP-server machine
>usenet.ucs.indiana.edu to kibo.ucs.indiana.edu so all of our outgoing stuff
>has to word "Kibo" in it...

1)  There are already three or four sites (mostly little machines)
    named kibo.*.*.*...

2)  My script ignores things like Path: and Xref:, etc.  I thought of
    this early on--the Path: to every posting *I* make ends in !kibo,
    and every article showing up in alt.religion.kibology generates
    on Xref: for each groups it's posted to, etc.

3)  Foo.

Don't tell Noah Friedman this, but I know where "foo" (as opposed to
"fubar") came from.
					-- K.

Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers
From: Charlie_Gibbs@mindlink.bc.ca (Charlie Gibbs)
Subject: Re: Apple IIGS being discontinued Dec 1992
Organization: MIND LINK! - British Columbia, Canada
Date: Thu, 24 Dec 1992 00:27:40 GMT

In article <1992Dec23.004951.6175@news.columbia.edu>
lasner@watsun.cc.columbia.edu (Charles Lasner) writes:

>Apple is of the "Less is More" school.  As a casual Windows user, I would
say
>that the most useful feature of Windows is the bottom option of most
>pull-downs on the left:
>
>Exit Windows

     Amen to that!

>If this were on a Mac, what would it do?

     Isn't that the shutdown option that makes it spit out all
floppy disks and switch itself off?  "No!  I'll die before I
display a command line!"

     Besides, if anybody wrote a command-line interpreter
Apple would probably sue them for sedition or something.

Charlie_Gibbs@mindlink.bc.ca
This sentence has threee erors.

Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers
From: peter@NeoSoft.com (Peter da Silva)
Subject: Re: Apple IIGS being discontinued Dec 1992
Organization: NeoSoft Communications Services -- (713) 684-5900
Date: Tue, 22 Dec 1992 12:13:02 GMT

In article <1992Dec22.104251.26368@u.washington.edu> whit@carson.u.washington.edu (John Whitmore) writes:
> 	Select 'by name' ordering of the files, select the
> block of files in the window for the source folder with your mouse,
> and drag them to the 'Letters' folder.  One menu selection and
> two swipes with the pointing device.

> 	Is a CLI version going to be simpler?

mv Let* Letters

> Quicker?

Yep, especially if you have more letters than fit into a page.

Now do the same with "move all files containing the string '1992' into the
directory 'Tax,92'.
-- 
Peter da Silva.  <peter@sugar.neosoft.com>.
 `-_-'   Oletko halannut suttasi tnn?
  'U`    
Tarjoilija, tm ateria el viel.
From: hqm@ai.mit.edu (Henry Minsky)
Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers
Subject: A real TTY
Date: 25 Dec 92 01:04:22
Organization: MIT Artificial Intelligence Laboratory
NNTP-Posting-Host: transit.ai.mit.edu
In-reply-to: esr@snark.thyrsus.com's message of 25 Dec 92 04:10:06 GMT


I just picked up a model 3320 Teletype. Can anyone tell me the easiest
way to interface it to a serial line? What does the "current loop"
interface consist of?  These things run at 110 baud, right?
From: kabreuer@cip.informatik.uni-erlangen.de (Klaus Breuer)
Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers
Subject: Re: PDP-11: A Physical Threat :)
Date: Wed, 30 Dec 1992 21:13:38 GMT
Organization: CSD., University of Erlangen
NNTP-Posting-Host: faui00e.informatik.uni-erlangen.de
Keywords: Hit'n'Run

>>>  This is the first article I have ever written to a.f.c, but I thought since there
>>>was some discussion (it was some time ago) on computers killing people, what the heck.

The only PDP-11 I ever set my eyes on was a pirated clone in the ex-DDR (saw
it there after the wall fell), so I can't relate any stories about it, but I
_was_ once nearly killed by a Puma robot: Using a small digital camera taped
to his 'hand', I was programming him to scan the pages of a book, turning
to the next page as needed.
As I was leaning over the book (needed careful adjusting), some _jerk_ activated
the darn thing...
If I hadn't jumped back just in time, I wouldn't be writing this - we always
ran the robot at top speed...

And, while not terribly dangerous :), I managed to get myself bitten by the
tractor feeder of a highspeed line printer...

Ciao,
Klaus
---
Klaus Breuer, Rudelsweiher Str. 6b, 8520 Erlangen, Germany
** "Geez, I need a _reason_ for everything?" --Calvin 
** "Should I or shouldn't I? -- Too late, I did!" --Hobbes 
Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers
From: sloth@yoyo.cc.monash.edu.au (Andrew Bulhak)
Subject: Where is the Jargon file?
Organization: The Horrible Sleeping Church
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1 PL8]
Date: Mon, 21 Dec 1992 05:55:31 GMT

Is there an ftp site containing the said file?

adthanksvance;


+-----------------------------------------------------------------------+
|  Andrew Bulhak		|                                       |
|  sloth@yoyo.cc.monash.edu.au	|    Q: If they are our brothers,       |
|  Monash Uni, Clayton,         |       how come we can't eat them?     |
|  Victoria, Australia          |                                       |
+-----------------------------------------------------------------------+
Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers
Subject: Re: Apple IIGS being discontinued Dec 1992
From: rmk@rmkhome.UUCP (Rick Kelly)
Organization: The Man With Ten Cats
Date: Tue, 22 Dec 1992 19:18:35 GMT
Reply-To: rmk@rmkhome.UUCP (Rick Kelly)

In article <1992Dec22.102829.26242@u.washington.edu> whit@carson.u.washington.edu (John Whitmore) writes:
>In article <9212162327.54@rmkhome.UUCP> rmk@rmkhome.UUCP (Rick Kelly) writes:
>
>>When the Mac ships with a real command line shell, then maybe some people
>>will look on it more favorably.
>
>	Macintoshes are shipping with TWO command line shells; one
>with Unix (A/UX) and the other with MPW (Macintosh Programmer's Workshop).
>Neither command line shell has had any effect on 'some people',
>that I can perceive.

Neither A/UX or MPW ship with the MAC as an included package.

>	And most Macintosh users don't see any great merit in the
>command line idea, anyway.  Why should they?

True.  The Mac is for people who have trouble turning on their television
set.

-- 

Rick Kelly	rmk@rmkhome.UUCP	merk!rmkhome!rmk	rmk@frog.UUCP
Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers,alt.folklore.urban,alt.religion.kibology,alt.geek,alt.non.sequitur,alt.licker.store
From: billn@hpcvaac.cv.hp.com (bill nelson)
Subject: Re: Proper pronounciation of 'Kibo'
Organization: Hewlett-Packard Company, Corvallis, Oregon USA
Date: Wed, 23 Dec 1992 20:23:06 GMT

andyh@syma.sussex.ac.uk (Andy Holyer) writes:

: > (On, ona, ono) Kibeyete
: > (Mii) Kibyem
: > (Vii) Bacon
: > (Oni) Kibyat
: >
: >The second person plural is irregular.
: 
: I presume that Kibyat' is an imperfective verb ? :-)

All conjugations are irregular and imperfect - unlike Kibo, who is
somewhat regular and partially perfect.

Bill
Xref: sparky alt.folklore.computers:18282 alt.folklore.science:4469