From: hatcher@MSUPA.PA.MSU.EDU
Subject: Re: Rationalization
Reply-To: hatcher@MSUPA.PA.MSU.EDU
Organization: MSU Dept. of Physics & Astronomy
Date: Tue, 13 Oct 92 21:03:51 GMT

In article <1992Oct12.171800.6976@rambo.atlanta.dg.com>, wpr@atlanta.dg.com (Bill Rawlins) writes:
>>>> Ah, then why didn't you just say in your first description of the "basic
>>>> scenario":  "You have sex."  rather than "You have sex outside of marriage"?
>
>>>   The "main" scenario for abortion is for those who have sex outside of
>>>   marriage, because they have a "problem" they need to "fix".  In marriage,
>>>   you don't have the same "problem", which I can detail at another time.
>
>> Hmmm, married woman becomes pregnant and doesn't want to be; she considers
>> it a "problem" and it needs to be "fixed".  Sounds exactly the same.  It
>> seems to me you put an unjustified emphasis on the marital status of the
>> woman.  Abortion is an option there as well; how she deals with coming to
>> that decision in relationship her spouse is a good topic for here on
>> alt.abortion.inequity and have been discussed.  We can go over that again
>> if you'd like.

Again, I repeat:  Not much difference between the "married" and "unmarried"
cases, so why did you differentiate?

>
>   I've been there - I have firsthand experience.  The couple has the baby
>   because they don't want to murder it.  Why try to rationalize it (abortion)
>   as acceptable?  Don't lie to yourself.
>            //  Bill Rawlins            <wpr@atlanta.dg.com>        //
>           //    "My views are my own"                             //

That was YOUR particular decision...other couples MAY not have the same
beliefs (that abortion==murder) and thus can legitimately decide (together
in this "non-controvertible" case) to proceed to have the abortion
(in the case of the woman) and to support that choice (in the case of
the husband).  Just because YOU chose the right-hand fork in the road
and it was the right decision for YOU (and your wife; I'm assuming she
willingly agreed with you without coercion) doesn't mean others are
"wrong" by jointly deciding to take other roads.  Yes, you might have
"firsthand experience" at YOUR wife/SO being pregnant (though I'd claim
this is not really equivalent to firsthand experience AT being pregnant)
but YOUR experience is/maybe DIFFERENT from other couples.  All we ask
is to let us make OUR OWN decisions.  

I've gone over this again and again with you and it seems you're too dense
to understand:  What you call "rationalizations" are legitimate reasons
to others.  Unless you're going to claim (again) to be the ultimate
decider of morality for ALL, then you can not make their choice for
them.  You can only make that choice for yourself.  Please don't retort
with that sorry old line about how "god has made it clear..."; because it
is *obvious* that it that it *isn't* clear or we wouldn't be discussing it.
Personally I'm still waiting for that loud, clear voice from the sky
speaking simultaneously to all people to explain this issue once and for
all.  Little wispers to a select few makes me nervous as I (hardly a
conspiracy theorist) see various opponents with obvious adgendas.

*I* am not FORCING my beliefs on *you*; *I* am not even asking *you* to 
follow my beliefs.  You can have your own and I respect that.  Just, please,
don't try to force YOUR beliefs on others.  If you can convince them through
*reasonable* means at the individual level, fine.  But do not turn this
country into a tyranny by the majority, or worse (since this seems to be
the case), a tyranny of the *minority* by legislating YOUR religion.

-robert (hatcher@msupa.pa.msu.edu)
Newsgroups: alt.abortion.inequity,talk.abortion,soc.men,soc.women