HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: ad99s461@sycom.mi.org (Alex Deburie)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.programmer
Subject: New 2 C - Is used Lattice 5.1 a good deal?
Distribution: world
X-BBS-Software: EXCELSIOR! v0.968
Date: 9 Nov 92 02:17:09 EST
Organization: Michigan Information eXchange

 
Hello,
 
I've got a line on a used copy of Lattice 5.1, and I'm wondering if
it's a good choice at $85, including a copy of RKM:Includes and
Autodocs.
 
It has no 2.0 includes, but I have a copy of the includes from an old
AmigaWorld Tech journal, and I should be a certified developer soon.
Is it possible to just use the new includes, without updating to a new
version of Lattice (SAS)? Will extended TAG based functions in 2.0
cause a problem with Lattice 5.1? (I know DICE gives warnings when you
call the TAG based functions)
 
If I do want to update to a new version of SAS, does anyone know if I
can contact SAS to get ownership/registration transferred to me?
 
This is NOT a pirate situation - the person I am buying the compiler
from has decided to switch to IBMs - and I'm thinking it would be a
worthwile purchase. I've wanted to get SAS 6.0, but the heavy price
has held me off - and DICE seems to be in no-mans land right now.
 
ANY help would be greatly appreciated!
 
     -- Alex Deburie
        ad99s461@sycom.mi.org

Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.programmer
From: dwilliam@jabba.ess.harris.com (Dave Williams)
Subject: Re: New hardware reference guide?
Organization: Harris Corporation - ISD
Date: Fri, 6 Nov 1992 20:46:32 GMT

In <u894776.720946372@bruny> u894776@bruny.cc.utas.edu.au (James McCoull) writes:

>Hamish.Macdonald@x400gate.bnr.ca (Hamish Macdonald) writes:

>[AGA talk]

>>What about those wanting to write their own operating system?

>I believe it is possible to get the info out of CATS on a need-to-know basis.
>If you release any hardware info to the general public, I believe Dave Haynie
>and one of his mates come around with a blow torch, and check the melting
>point of human toes.

   Speaking of one of those people writing operating systems - The Amiga
Linux group is sorta worried about this.  We're in the process of porting
Linux (A free POSIX - based unix for PC's, at this point) to the Amiga. 
Naturally, we won't be able to do much with the new machines.  I despair
at the thought of porting X.  (X works fine on linux PC's, since the 
Xfree group has done all the hard work)  X under the old chipset is gonna
be sorta disapointing at best, considering the resolutions available. 

   Since Linux is PD, there's no way in hell (IMHO) Dave Haynie and his
group would let us have that info.  

-- 
  Dave Williams                                     | I'm lucky if I can
    dwilliam@jabba.ess.harris.com                   | even spell opinion,
      "Huh?  What?  Could you repeat the question?" | much less have them.
From: bjst@sth.frontec.se (Bjorn Stenberg)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.programmer
Subject: Re: New hardware reference guide?
Date: 11 Nov 92 12:45:37 GMT
Organization: IDK/Frontec - System Design Group

bjst@sth.frontec.se  (Bjorn Stenberg) writes:
> > By not releasing hard core hw specs CBM can limit the amount of poorly  
> > written software produced.

brett@visix.com writes:
> Please! Hitting the hardware != POORLY Written Software

Sure, there's lots of shit banging the hardware and works. Unfortunately,
there's even more shit banging the hardware which does *NOT* work.

I think saying that 'the less people are hitting hardware the more programs
are likely to work well' is a pretty fair statement.

Problems arise because when our friend the hacker gets 250+ registers to
schmack and hit anyway he likes, he's likely to do something wrong.
If he instead gets a few simple, properly written routines to do it, he'll
have a greater chance of getting away with what he wants to accomplish.

I never said -all- hardware hitting software was bad software.

		-- Bjorn

       ///  Bjorn Stenberg, Stockholm, Sweden         bjst@sth.frontec.se
      ///  main() { printf(&unix["\021%six\012\0"],(unix)["have"]+"fun"-0x60);}
 \\\ ///  "- Your documentation no longer confuses me, old version!"
From: chandler@uni-paderborn.de (Martin Grote)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.programmer
Subject: Re: physical memory protection with MMU
Date: 12 Nov 1992 17:28:37 GMT
Organization: Uni-GH Paderborn, Germany
Distribution: world
NNTP-Posting-Host: greco.uni-paderborn.de
Keywords: mmu, memory, task

tron@uni-paderborn.de (Matthias Scheler) writes:
>> [stuff emphasizing memory protection deleted]
> It would be nice, but you would loose 99.9999% of the software.

So here we are at the beginning again. My original suggestion was:
> As the memory protection would have to be optional anyway because not all
> machines have an MMU, make it optional for all users!
> [...]
> Just open a window asking the user what to do, e.g.
> 'Kill task - Ignore forever - Ignore'.
> [...]

> The advantages would be that all new software would definitely have to avoid
> MMU hits and the user could still use old buggy software if she really needs
> to ...


Besides, you write:
> you would loose 99.9999% of the software
                  ^^^^^^^^
Hmm. Ever went to a statistics lesson here? :^>
So let's say 90%. But as I wrote before:
 
> The advantages would be that all new software would definitely have to avoid
> MMU hits and the user could still use old buggy software if she really needs
> to ...

However, to focus on my original intention again:
- is it impossible / too difficult?
- any disadvantages (does it have slow down the system)?
- if not, how about implementing it?

--
Martin Grote
chandler@uni-paderborn.de

Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.programmer
From: leikvoll@hsr.no (Morten Leikvoll)
Subject: Re: Assembler problem (Macro68)
Organization: Rogaland University Centre
Date: Fri, 6 Nov 1992 09:58:42 GMT


 In article <1992Nov3.190743.540@news.uit.no> borgen@stud.cs.uit.no (Borge Noest) writes:
 >
 >Does the following code look good to you?
 >
 >yes	equ	0
 >no	equ	-1
 >
 >jump	equ	yes
 >
 >	moveq	#0,d0
 >
 >	beq	.weee
 >
*>	if	jump
*>.weee	moveq	#1,d1
*>	elseif
*>.weee	moveq	#2,d1
*>	endc
 >
 >	rts
 >
 
This should work, (if any help):

 .weee	if	jump
 	moveq	#1,d1
 	elseif
 	moveq	#2,d1
 	endc

-Morten Leikvoll / leikvoll@hsr.no (Is it short enough?)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.programmer
From: umoster0@ccu.umanitoba.ca (Sean K. Ostermann)
Subject: Hooks?  Simple explaination please!
Summary: My friend wants to know what Hooks are and I can't explain them
Keywords: Hooks Explaination
Organization: University of Manitoba, Winnipeg, Canada
Date: Tue, 10 Nov 1992 14:59:23 GMT

I need a simple (but not too simple) explaination about Hooks.  What are
they used for, why are they in the OS and how can one use them?

Thanks,

Sean
==========================
University of Manitoba
(covered in 20cms of snow)
Computer Engineering
===========================
From: Roger_Nordin@atb.bbs.bad.se (Roger Nordin)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.programmer
Subject: Re: DOS upgrade on A3000
Date: 6 Nov 92 22:41:03 GMT
Reply-To: Roger_Nordin@atb.bbs.bad.se (Roger Nordin)
Organization: ANet Test Bench, Karlstad, Sweden
OD-Comment-To: Internet_Gateway

> ROMS?!?!?  Are there ROMS available for the 3000 now?

Has been for quite a while.

> Will the ROMS prevent me from using 1.3 every once in
> a while?

1.3 kickstarts will not survive reboots. Neither will any other kickstart 
version, including higher versions. I would not recommend you to downgrade to 
the 2.04 ROMs. You'll be much happier with the kickstart in fast 32-bit RAM 
anyways.

> Is boot time any faster?

That depends. If you can stand slower speed with the kickstart in ROM, the 
answer is: Yes, 1-2 seconds approx. Wow. :) Otherwise: No, considering that 
CPU FASTROM will reboot your machine an extra time.

                        _       .    __
    Roger Nordin     _ //      /!Net /est Bench
 2:203/602.0@fidonet \X/  Internet: Roger_Nordin@bad.se

--- 
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.programmer
From: Kevin.Rice <Kevin.Rice@mixcom.mixcom.com>
Subject: Re: Help! Anyone know GURU numbers?
Organization: Milwaukee Internet Xchange BBS, Milwaukee, WI U.S.A.
Distribution: usa
Date: Wed, 11 Nov 1992 09:28:59 GMT

I got a program that'll give ya a brief description of any guru or dos error
number.   if you want it, I could mail it to ya...  :)  mail me if you do.
Kevin.rice@mixcom.com


-- 

Kevin.Rice@mixcom.com

]:8)
Thae'aradon,
Red Dragon of the North
From: brett@visix.com (Brett Bourbin)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.programmer
Subject: Re: New hardware reference guide?
Date: 12 Nov 92 15:51:49 GMT
Reply-To: brett@visix.com
Organization: Visix Software, Reston, Virginia

In article <36847@cbmvax.commodore.com> peter@cbmvax.commodore.com (Peter  
Cherna) writes:
> In article <BxGvwE.4op@visix.com> brett@visix.com writes:
> >Please! Hitting the hardware != POORLY Written Software
> 
> Of course they're not equal.  But there is a strong correlation.  We
> know.  Part of our living is investigating software that dies under
> new OS's/machines.  A great fraction of this software dies because
> because it hits the hardware or otherwise circumvents the OS when
> playing by the rules would have suited the application just fine.

This is true. If you don't follow the rules, there will be problems. By  
all means, if the OS can do the job you need done, USE IT. The area I am  
trying to address is where the OS can not do the job. This is not the  
fault of the C= programmers, but that the OS routines need to be  
generalized.

> >There is well done software to has to go to the hardware
> >There is poor software that goes to the hardware
> 
> In particular, there is plenty of poor software that _unnecessarily_
> goes to the hardware, and that fact is a major contributor to their
> poorness.

But there are times when you do need to hit the hardware. ie. Trying to  
run a 3D textured graphics program, updating at 30fps on a 68020-based  
machine. The 1M standard in the A1200 will help eliminate one the reasons  
why going to the hardware was a necessity.

The problem now is trying to still be competative in the games market.  
Look at the IBM games now, 256 color palettes and some SVGA games are  
making their way to the stores; the Sega has a great sprite engine that  
dwarfs the Amiga; the SNES graphics are even better (if you don't mind  
programming on a 6502-type chip (boy, you get spoiled working with the 68K  
series)). If the Amiga is going to survive in the games market, we need  
AGA games. If you keep the documentation to AGA internal, you basically  
say to many game developers (like me), "your not welcome here anymore".

> Peter Cherna, User Interface Development Group, Commodore-Amiga, Inc.
--			       __
Brett Bourbin		\  / /(_  /\/  11440 Commerce Park Drive
  brett@visix.com	 \/ / __)/ /\  Reston, Virginia 22091
  ..uupsi!visix!brett	 Software Inc  703.758.8230
From: peter@cbmvax.commodore.com (Peter Cherna)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.programmer
Subject: Re: Listview -vs- Intuiticks
Date: 10 Nov 92 17:15:12 GMT
Reply-To: peter@cbmvax.commodore.com (Peter Cherna)
Distribution: usa
Organization: Commodore-Amiga, Inc.  West Chester, PA.

In article <1992Nov9.213103.3388@cci632.cci.com> den@cci632.cci.com (Dennis J. Buttery) writes:
>I am handling the INTUITICKS as they are received.  It just doesn't seem very
>practical though to have my application wake-up each time one is received.
>Especially, since they are only there because of the Listview gadget.
>BTW - I am using the GT_GetIMsg function in place of the regular GetMsg. which
>I thought was designed to consume these unwanted event signals??

GT_GetIMsg() does consume messages it _knows_ you don't need, such as
minute changes in slider position that don't affect the coarse value,
for example.  However, it can't know that you don't want INTUITICKS,
so it has no choice but to pass them down.

Being prodded at INTUITICKS rate shouldn't be a problem, code-wise
or performance-wise.

>                                           -DJB-

     Peter
--
Peter Cherna, User Interface Development Group, Commodore-Amiga, Inc.
{uunet|rutgers}!cbmvax!peter    peter@cbmvax.commodore.com
My opinions do not necessarily represent the opinions of my employer.
"I believe it's bad luck to be superstitious."
From: Per_Salmi@augs.se (Per Salmi)
Subject: SAS/C 6.0 I'm waiting!
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.programmer
Summary: 
Keywords: 
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1 PL6]
Date: 12 Nov 92 20:33:51 CET
Organization: Amiga User Group - Sweden

Is there anyone out there who knows how long it takes to get the 6.0 update for SAS/C? I live in Europe and has paid about two weeks ago...


--
***************************************************************************
* Per Salmi, phone: +46-13-172267                  * Computer Science &   *
* snail-mail: Bjkg 15B:12, 58251 Linkoping, Sweden * Engineering, LiTH    *
* e-mail: salmi@augs.se or d89persa@und.ida.liu.se *                      *
***************************************************************************
From: chrisg@cbmvax.commodore.com (Chris Green)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.programmer
Subject: Re: New hardware reference guide?
Date: 11 Nov 92 13:40:31 GMT
Reply-To: chrisg@cbmvax.commodore.com (Chris Green)
Organization: Commodore, West Chester, PA

In article <1992Nov10.135706.383@ugle.unit.no> mortene@Lise.Unit.NO (Morten Eriksen) writes:
>>csg019@cch.coventry.ac.uk (-~=Zaphod=~-) writes:
>>> The fact is, what ever you can do in the OS in 4 frames using the OS, a good
>>> demo programmer would probably do in 100 raster lines, and make it work on
>>> any machine.
>>
>>Yeah, sure.
>>Can you give me the names of 10 advanced demos which all work on the full
>>range of Amigas (A500, A500+, A600, A1000, A1200, A2000, A3000, A4000)?
>>
>>No, I didn't think so either...
>>
>>		-- Bjorn
>
>So, please give us the names of 10 great democoders which all have unlimited
>access to all the computers you mentioned.
>
	That's exactly the point. There are plenty of programs which were written using
the OS which work on all of the above computers, even though the authors had
no access to all of the machines. There are far fewer which work on all
of these computers which don't use the OS.

-- 
*-------------------------------------------*---------------------------*
|Chris Green - Graphics Software Engineer   - chrisg@commodore.COM      f
|                  Commodore-Amiga          - uunet!cbmvax!chrisg       n
|My opinions are my own, and do not         - icantforgettheimpression  o
|necessarily represent those of my employer.- youmadeyouleftaholeinthe  r
|"A screaming comes across the sky..."      - backofmyhead              d
*-------------------------------------------*---------------------------*
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.programmer
From: bjst@sth.frontec.se (Bjorn Stenberg)
Subject: Re: LISP - Don't use it.
Organization: IDK/Frontec - System Design Group
Date: 11 Nov 92 22:55:49 GMT

mwm@contessa.palo-alto.ca.us (Mike Meyer) writes:
> Please make up your mind. Either code should be easy to reuse (i.e. -
> changed for some completely different purpose), or it shouldn't.

Reusable doesn't mean that the code is easily changed into something
completely different.
Reusable means you can take portions of the code from one project and put it
into another -WITHOUT- altering it.

(I'll take the rest in email as I think we're boring the rest of the readers
to death... :-)

		-- Bjorn

       ///  Bjorn Stenberg, Stockholm, Sweden         bjst@sth.frontec.se
      ///  main() { printf(&unix["\021%six\012\0"],(unix)["have"]+"fun"-0x60);}
 \\\ ///  "- Your documentation no longer confuses me, old version!"
From: peter@cbmvax.commodore.com (Peter Cherna)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.programmer
Subject: Re: New hardware reference guide?
Date: 9 Nov 92 15:53:22 GMT
Reply-To: peter@cbmvax.commodore.com (Peter Cherna)
Organization: Commodore-Amiga, Inc.  West Chester, PA.

In article <BxAMtH.Aos@cck.coventry.ac.uk> csg019@cch.coventry.ac.uk (-~=Zaphod=~-) writes:
>Whoa! Thats crap. Demo programmers use the hardware for speed only, it has
>nothing to do with lazyness. Its true, we don't like using other peoples code,
>because we would not be able to accomplish what we set out to do.
>
>The fact is, what ever you can do in the OS in 4 frames using the OS, a good
>demo programmer would probably do in 100 raster lines, and make it work on
>any machine.

Well, we have extensive experience in figuring out why so many of these things
stopped working.  We looked at a bunch that broke when a 1MB Agnus was
installed.  We looked at a bunch that broke under ECS.  We looked at a
bunch that broke with the A3000.  A bunch that broke with 2.04.  A bunch
more that broke with AGA and 3.0, and sadly, we fully expect to have the
same darned problem next time we rev something too.

From our experience, we've indeed seen some software that circumvents
the OS because that was the only way to achieve the effect desired.
But by and large, the most common reason appears to be "NIH" syndrome (not
invented here).  It appears to be common to underestimate the performance
of the system routines, to misunderstand how to use the system routines,
to misunderstand the intricacies of the hardware, etc.

We frequently see code that goes to the hardware that is significantly
less efficient than it could easily be, or even than the OS is.  The
only thing which is rare in all of this is code which takes over the machine
completely and DOES work on all Amigas.  Perhaps you are among those who can
write code that works on most Amigas, but you're in the tiny minority...

     Peter
--
Peter Cherna, User Interface Development Group, Commodore-Amiga, Inc.
{uunet|rutgers}!cbmvax!peter    peter@cbmvax.commodore.com
My opinions do not necessarily represent the opinions of my employer.
"I believe it's bad luck to be superstitious."


Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.programmer
From: walker@twix.unx.sas.com (Doug Walker)
Subject: Re: Why does EMITS complain? SCMSG bug?
Originator: walker@twix.unx.sas.com
Date: Wed, 11 Nov 1992 17:45:50 GMT
Organization: SAS Institute Inc.


In article <heinz.04hz@edohwg.adsp.sub.org>, heinz@edohwg.adsp.sub.org (Heinz Wrobel) writes:
|> Two questions concerning SAS/C 6.0:
|> 
|>     1. I tried to register with emits with my old 5.10B serial number (yes,
|>        another update ;-). emits didn't "find" it in the database. Should I
|>        use the new SAS6-xxxxxx number I got, instead of my old SAS-xxxxxx
|>        even though I didn't send in the new registration card?
|>        Shouldn't my "old" 5.10B serial-number have been in the database for
|>        some time now? I really want to avoid to call book-sales. Phone
|>        calls to the US are _expensive_ from germany!

Your old number should be in the database.  Don't use the new number.
Try sending email to ts4sasca@unx.sas.com to ask them what's wrong
with the EMITS registration - that's the technical support emailbox.
(Or just wait, 'cause Jim will probably read your posting and
reply to you.)

|>     2. I can't get SCMSG to accept the AUTOEDIT option. If I turn it on in
|>        the options window and save the options, it's in the ENV:SC/SCMSG
|>        file. I quit scmsg, start it again and voila: "NoAutoEdit" is there
|>        again! What am I doing wrong here? Is it a known bug?
|> 

Known bug, sorry.  It's fixed in the upcoming 6.1 patch.  The 6.1 
patch will be freely redistributable, and will be announced via
the net (and other media) once it is available.

|> Heinz Wrobel, Edotronik GmbH (ECG018)

-- 
  *****
=*|_o_o|\\=====Doug Walker, Software Distiller====== BBS: (919)460-7430 =
 *|. o.| ||                                          1200/2400/9600 Dual
  | o  |//     For all you do, this bug's for you!
  ====== 
usenet: walker@unx.sas.com                            bix: djwalker 
Any opinions expressed are mine, not those of SAS Institute, Inc.
From: jlavin@cie.uoregon.edu (Jeff Lavin)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.programmer
Subject: Re: Assembler problem (Macro68)
Date: 5 Nov 92 07:18:20 GMT
Article-I.D.: nntp.1992Nov5.071820.3926
Organization: The Puzzle Factory

In article <1992Nov3.190743.540@news.uit.no>, borgen@stud.cs.uit.no (Borge Noest) writes:
>Does the following code look good to you?
>
>yes	equ	0
>no	equ	-1
>
>jump	equ	yes
>
>	moveq	#0,d0
>
>	beq	.weee
>
>	if	jump
>.weee	moveq	#1,d1
>	elseif
>.weee	moveq	#2,d1
>	endc
>
>	rts
>
>------
>
>Well, Macro68 v3.170 doesn't like it (can't find .weee).
>ArgAsm and DevPac accepts it (doing the moveq #1,d1 variant).
>
>Is my code bogus? Have I missed something about Macro68?
>
>Thanks in advance.

There are 2 problems here: The one causing most of the trouble is the ELSEIF
directive.  Macro68 doesn't have an ELSEIF directive, although you could
define one in the macro68custom file.  In this particular example, 'IF jump'
is always going to evaluate false.  Macro68 does not check code inside a
false conditional block for validity.  Therefore, the block above actually is
assembled as:

	if	jump
.weee	moveq	#1,d1
.weee	moveq	#2,d1
	endc

and the labels are never seen at all.  If the ELSEIF statement is changed to
ELSE (or a directive named ELSEIF is defined in the macro68custom file), the
file will assemble correctly.

The second problem is more one of programming style.  It is generally not a
good idea to use IF.  In this case, Macro68 is actually evaluating the value
of the label, which is zero.  However, in a more complex example this may not
do what you want, or expect.  It is better to use specific conditions such as
IFEQ, IFNE, IFGE, etc.

I hope that this was of help, and that it will enable you to get the most
from Macro68.  Because you are not located in North America, you will need to
contact DigiSoft for customer support.  They can be reached at:
  cbmaus!cbmozq!digisoft!paulc@cbmvax.cbm.commodore.com
-- 
The Puzzle Factory, Inc.  | Jeff Lavin -- jlavin@cie.uoregon.edu
Veneta, Oregon            |-------------------------------------
Voice : (503) 935-3709    | Remainder of signature line
Data  : (503) 935-7883    | under construction.
From: robinson@elux3.cs.umass.edu (RICHARD ROBINSON)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.programmer
Subject: A couple of questions
Date: 10 Nov 92 00:07:27 GMT
Reply-To: robinson@elux3.cs.umass.edu (RICHARD ROBINSON)
Organization: The Realm of Dread


Ok, I have a couple of questions that I'd love to find answers to.

1. Can a packet sent to DOS be aborted? I send an ACTION_READ to a console,
and need to get rid of it when I exit. I just can't ask the user 'please hit
a key so I can exit.' And since the exit is based on the termination of
another process, there is no way to not send the packet when I'm about to,
'cause I don't know when it is going to exit.

Failing that, can I trick the console into thinking I typed something?

2. Is there any way to find out how many characters can be read from
a console? Transferring characters to and from a pipe one at a time is
pathetically slow.

Thankx in advance for any suggestions.
--
Dread				      (Richard Robinson, Univ of Mass, Amherst)
dread@titan.ucc.umass.edu	      "There is no right, there is only power!"
robinson@elux3.cs.umass.edu		     "Kill them, kill them all!" 
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.programmer
From: bja20850@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (B.J. Anderson)
Subject: Where can I find reqtools.library version 38.810???
Organization: University of Illinois at Urbana
Date: Wed, 11 Nov 1992 09:19:15 GMT

Please reply via email to b-anderson@uiuc.edu if you don't mind.
Send the lib along if possible :)

-Beej

-- 
mail: bja20850@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu