HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: crd@cbnewse.cb.att.com (charles.r.dobrovolny)
Subject: Re: the eugenic approach
Organization: AT&T
Date: Sun, 27 Sep 1992 06:02:34 GMT
Summary: indentured for life...

In article <9209252225.AA00544@helium>, dolan@nrlmry.navy.mil (Kent Paul Dolan) writes:
[stuff deleted]
> 
> Until the eugenic approach is combined, legally and enforceably, with
> the denial of government largesse approach, I'm promoting the current
> situation as far CHEAPER and much LESS DISRUPTIVE of "personal
> liberties: than letting 25% of society toke themselves unemployable and
> non-functional with free or cheap access to drugs in bulk, and then the
> rest of us being indentured for life to pay their upkeep until old age
> carries them off.

Some of us already consider ourselves indentured since we've been paying 
taxes in part to pay the upkeep on wasteful and unjust policies of
prohibition.
> 
> And that 25% is probably an UNDERestimate.

If it is, but even if it's not, that's an awful lot of people to deny a
fairly innocuous indulgence, much less jail and/or seize all their stuff.
> 
> Kent, the man from xanth.
> "The Birthright of humankind is the stars!"
> --

SAY KNOW

Chuck
From: booloo@framsparc.ocf.llnl.gov (Mark Boolootian)
Newsgroups: talk.politics.drugs
Subject: Re: spelling this stuff out real clearly
Date: 28 Sep 92 20:17:40 GMT
Organization: Lawrence Livermore National Laboratory

In article <9209281704.AA01109@helium> dolan@nrlmry.navy.mil (Kent Paul Dolan) writes:
>Ignore the header, and don't expect me to see a news reply.  We don't get news.
>Use email to: <dolan@nrlmry.navy.mil> or <dolan@192.138.87.240>

For what it's worth, those who feel so compelled to respond to Mr. Dolan should
do so via email, since he doesn't seem to read news.  Personally, I think he
would find silence more unnerving than the onslaught of mail I'm sure he is
receiving.

mb
-- 
Mark Boolootian		booloo@llnl.gov		+1 510 423 1948
From: booloo@framsparc.ocf.llnl.gov (Mark Boolootian)
Newsgroups: talk.politics.drugs
Subject: Mr. Dolan receives email, but not news (was: spelling...)
Date: 5 Oct 92 17:40:04 GMT
Organization: Lawrence Livermore National Laboratory

In article <1992Oct3.231537.2688@news.cs.indiana.edu> hagerp@moose.cs.indiana.edu (Paul Hager) writes:
>
>As I said in a previous post -- to which you did not respond -- the

Just to reiterate, Mr. Dolan states in his signature:

Ignore the header, and don't expect me to see a news reply.  We don't get news.
Use email to: <dolan@nrlmry.navy.mil> or <dolan@192.138.87.240>



-- 
Mark Boolootian		booloo@llnl.gov		+1 510 423 1948
From: atfurman@cup.portal.com (A T Furman)
Newsgroups: talk.politics.drugs
Subject: Re: [sci.med] Vitamins and the FDA : View Point
Date: Sat,  3 Oct 92 13:21:01 PDT
Organization: The Portal System (TM)

>...It is my belief, based in part on the information contained in parts 2 
>and 3 of this post, and the goals set forth in pending legislation HR 3642 
>and S 2135, that the FDA has been severely compromised and is acting 
>contrary to the welfare of the people. 
>
>---------
>Lance Sanders
>starkid@ddsw1.MCS.COM                     STAND.
>GE Mail: L.Sanders6
>Vox: (312) 667-5958

Mighty white of Mr Sanders to inform me what is good for me and what is
not, so I can be appropriately thankful should the FDA enforce these
conclusions through the guns of the State.


    Alan T. Furman         | VOTE LIBERTARIAN!!  Marrou/Lord in 92!!
---------------------------+----------------------------------------
  atfurman@cup.portal.com  |   (800)682-1776 for more information
Newsgroups: talk.politics.drugs
From: delisle@eskimo.celestial.com (Ben Delisle)
Subject: [sci.med] Vitamins and the FDA : View Point
Organization: -> ESKIMO NORTH (206) For-Ever <-
Date: Sat, 3 Oct 1992 05:04:25 GMT

[Forwarded]
From: starkid@ddsw1.MCS.COM (Lance Sanders)
Newsgroups: sci.med,misc.fitness,misc.consumers
Subject: Vitamins and the FDA (Pt. 1 of 3): Viewpoint

   Pending legislation proposed by the Food and Drug Administration (HR 
3642/S 2135), which would ban vitamins containing nutrient levels greater 
than the "recommended daily allowance", eliminate trace nutrients, and make 
amino acids prescription-only, etc., is extraordinarily ill-considered and 
dangerous. 

   Cursory examination of mainstream data overwhelmingly demonstrates that 
high-quality vitamin supplements, at low and safe levels (but necessarily 
higher than those proposed by the FDA), exhibit profound capacity for 
general prophylaxis and therapy, as do various amino acid concentrates (L-
Tyrosine in particular). 
   [SEE: Vitamins and the FDA (Pt. 2 of 3): Vitamin Research]


   The anti-supplementation action by the FDA is not only being undertaken 
at a time of unprecedented biochemical degredation of our food and water 
supplies, but also in conjunction with plans to allow UNLABELED, 
genetically-altered foods into the marketplace (consumers would essentially 
be forced to buy the altered products; truly, "The Mother Of All Red 
Flags"), approval of irradiation for poultry, pork, vegetables and fruits, 
a lifting of the ban on foreign imports of ground meats, etc., and current 
indictments of FDA safety inspectors that trace routine bribery and illegal 
importation of foods back (so far) to 1984. 
   [SEE: Vitamins and the FDA (Pt. 3 of 3): Food Degredation]


   I find it grotesque that the FDA chooses to render vitamin supplements 
impotent while simultaneously approving food technologies such as 
irradiation, which not only introduces trace carcinogens into the food 
supply (radiolytes such as benzene, etc.), but also reduces the vitamin 
content in foods, often by as much as 50% (and cooking would reduce 
nutrient levels even further). 


   It is my belief, based in part on the information contained in parts 2 
and 3 of this post, and the goals set forth in pending legislation HR 3642 
and S 2135, that the FDA has been severely compromised and is acting 
contrary to the welfare of the people. 

---------
Lance Sanders
starkid@ddsw1.MCS.COM                     STAND.
GE Mail: L.Sanders6
Vox: (312) 667-5958
From: frazer@idtinc.COM (Andrew Frazer)
Newsgroups: talk.politics.drugs
Subject: Re:  An ex-President's thoughts on prohibiting a drug
Date: 2 Oct 92 16:16:44 GMT


>The current Democratic nominee says he smoked marijuana in college, but
>did not inhale. One of my favorite commedians says he drank beer in
>college, but never swallowed.

Andre Marrou told a joke here last month about a reporter who asked Bill 
Clinton if he ever had an extramarital affair.  Clinton replied "I tried 
it, I didn't like it, and I didn't swallow".

Andy Frazer

Newsgroups: talk.politics.drugs
From: press2@cbnewsd.cb.att.com (barry.o.olson)
Newsgroups: talk.politics.drugs
Subject: Need Info- Wis. NORML, Green Bay
Keywords: Attention Ben Masel
Date: 1 Oct 92 01:34:31 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: AT&T


Ben, could you please post or e-mail your Wis-NORML phone-number
and address again in Green Bay. I spoke with one of your reps
in the Madison office already concerning a case of possession of
small amount of weed(ooh tht evil word) and two counts of possession
of weed delivery systems. This case involves a friend and is
currently pending in Wisconsin.
The state wants to use extortion(er, plea bargain) to settle. 
$300 fine gets a lifelong criminal record, while $800 fine gets
6 months probation plus probation officer and no crminal record.
I didn't know this before, but possession of a delivery system is
more heineous than possession of weed alone.
Jury trial and petition to judge for FIJ material may be of interest
in this case. Thanks
Xref: sparky talk.politics.drugs:6476 talk.politics.misc:48179 misc.legal:17772
From: starr@genie.slhs.udel.edu (Tim Starr)
Subject: Re: Calif. Forfeiture laws
Organization: UDel, School of Life & Health Sciences
Distribution: usa
Date: Thu, 1 Oct 1992 05:36:57 GMT

In article <66941@cup.portal.com> atfurman@cup.portal.com (A T Furman) writes:
}>	Does anyone know if California has forfeiture laws
}>similar to many of the other states?...
}>
}>-garrett 
}
}It is my understanding that Dan Lungren, the Attorney General, is now
}lobbying furiously to get forfeiture laws passed.  He, you will recall,

Indeed, Ross Johnson, one of the leading Republican Assemblymen, has intro-
duced such legislation.

So, it seems this is bipartisan looting.  Us Libertarians are the only ones
opposing civil seizure and forfeiture laws...


Tim Starr - Renaissance Now! - Think Universally, Act Selfishly
starr@genie.slhs.udel.edu

"True greatness consists in the use of a powerful understanding to enlighten
oneself and others." - Voltaire
Newsgroups: talk.politics.space
From: cain@geomag.gly.fsu.edu (Joe Cain)
Subject: Re: Quayle on Mars
Organization: Florida State University Geology Dept.
Distribution: usa
Date: Sun, 4 Oct 92 15:47:14 GMT

In article <1al7ofINN99s@almaak.usc.edu> scarter@almaak.usc.edu (Steve Carter) writes:
>
>I just saw the following statement attributed to Dan Quayle:
>
>>>Mars is essentially in the same orbit... somewhat the same distance from the
>>>Sun, which is very important. We have seen pictures where there are canals,
>>>we believe, and water. If there is water, that means there is oxygen. If 
>>>oxygen, that means we can breathe.
>
>Can any of you space-afficionados verify or debunk this quote? 

Unfortunatly, it is true, and only the tip of a large iceberg of
gaffes regarding the space program. This leads to such Beltway quips
as Quayle's thinking that Roe vs Wade were options to cross the
Potomac.
Joseph Cain		cain@geomag.gly.fsu.edu
cain@fsu.bitnet		scri::cain
From: wolfone@ccwf.cc.utexas.edu (Patrick Chester)
Newsgroups: talk.politics.space
Subject: Re: ALTERNATIVE Comet Rendezvous Mission
Date: 6 Oct 92 04:17:13 GMT
Organization: The University of Texas at Austin, Austin TX

In article <darknite.717864636@camelot> darknite@camelot.bradley.edu (John S. Novak III) writes:
)Excuse me, but haven't I seen the _exact_ same load of tripe
)either here or in sci.space two or three times already in the
)past week?
Yep. Same guy. Want me to repost my flame of that article to this group? I have
it saved still. Have nothing else better to do. :) 
)
)--
)"Well, probably if you see what to do, then it should be obvious."
)	  -Dr. In Soo Ahn, 10-18-91
)John S. Novak, III		darknite@camelot.bradley.edu


-- 
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Patrick Chester            |"The earth is too fragile a basket in which to keep
wolfone@ccwf.cc.utexas.edu |  all your eggs." Robert A. Heinlein
Politically Incorrect      |"The meek shall inherit the earth. The rest of us
Future Lunar Colonist      |  are going to the stars." Anonymous
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Newsgroups: talk.politics.space
From: kentm@aix.rpi.edu (Michael V. Kent)
Subject: Re: Clinton and Space Funding
Organization: Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute, Troy, NY
Date: Wed, 30 Sep 1992 19:12:56 GMT

In article <NICKH.92Sep29161615@VOILA.VENARI.CS.CMU.EDU> nickh@CS.CMU.EDU (Nick Haines) writes:
>Let me see if I've got this right...
>
>1. Military and aerospace dollars are well spent because they go into
>high-paid jobs, so have a high multiplier.

Sounds good so far.

>2. Companies that get these dollars are lousy because they're fat and
>lazy and make $800 toilet seats.

Well, consider this.  Boeing and McDonnell Douglas are, respectively, our
country's largest and second-largest aerospace companies.  They are also,
respectively, our country's largest and second-largest exporters. Coincidence?

Mike

-- 
Michael Kent                                   kentm@rpi.edu
McDonnell Douglas                              Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute
All facts in this post are based on publicly available information.  All
opinions expressed are solely those of the author.    Apple II Forever !!
From: hall@bcstec.ca.boeing.com (Robert J. Hall)
Newsgroups: talk.politics.space
Subject: Re: Quayle on Mars
Date: 6 Oct 92 19:30:38 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: Boeing Computer Services, Seattle


 > I just saw the following statement attributed to Dan Quayle:
 >
 >Mars is essentially in the same orbit... somewhat the same distance from the
 >Sun, which is very important. We have seen pictures where there are canals,
 >we believe, and water. If there is water, that means there is oxygen. If
 >oxygen, that means we can breathe.

The funny thing about this statement is that, taken individually, each 
sentence contains an element of truth. Read together, however, it looks very
ignorant and bizarre.

Mars photos I've seen published do show signs of possible water flow during
the planets early history. There are 'channels' and canyons. Mars is fairly
close to the Earth's orbit. If there is water on Mars, we may be able to use
it to manufacture Oxygen for colonies.

I get the feeling that VP Quayle listened to Scientists talking about Mars
colonies and history, but only understood or remembered a few statements and
thread them together in an outdated manner. Or maybe he just finished reading
H. G. Wells. :-)

-- 
 Bob Hall,                 | "If at first you don't succeed, try, try again.
 Workstation Peripheral    | Then give up. No use being a damn fool about it."
 Boeing Computer Services  |                                     -Groucho Marx
Newsgroups: talk.politics.space
From: kentm@aix.rpi.edu (Michael V. Kent)
Subject: Re: DCX Funding (was: Re: Lunar landing in 2002)
Organization: Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute, Troy, NY
Date: Tue, 29 Sep 1992 14:20:04 GMT

In article <1992Sep29.141642.27852@iti.org> aws@iti.org (Allen W. Sherzer) writes:
>In article <h9jz+!n@rpi.edu> kentm@aix.rpi.edu (Michael V. Kent) writes:
>
>>The white-world Air Force would have the same problems as NASA.  The only
>>two agencies that could pull this off are SDIO and DARPA.  (In my opinion.)
>
>I aggree SDIO or DARPA are better suited however SDIO doesn't have the money
>and DCY is too big for DARPA. There is however a small group in the Air
>Force which does procurement the right way and could execute this program.

Who?  Where?  Inquiring salesmen want to know!   :)

Mike

-- 
Michael Kent                                   kentm@rpi.edu
McDonnell Douglas                              Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute
All facts in this post are based on publicly available information.  All
opinions expressed are solely those of the author.    Apple II Forever !!
Newsgroups: talk.politics.space
From: vulch@kernow.demon.co.uk (Anthony Frost)
Reply-To: vulch@kernow.demon.co.uk
Subject: Re: Space and Presidential Politics
Organization: VCS Kernow
X-Mailer: ReaderS for the Acorn Archimedes
Date: Fri, 2 Oct 1992 12:50:02 +0000

 
  > My sources within the Clinton campaign say that Clinton is
  > likely to keep Goldin (who is, after all, a registered
  > democrat). Wether a Gore 
 
In the UK, every house/flat (apartment)/whatever gets sent a form every year
which you are obliged to fill in and return in order to be listed in the
electoral register. Could someone explain the equivalent procedure in the US
and what exactly it means to be a "registered democrat" please? There have
been several news stories over here about campaigns to get people to
register, but nothing about how...
 
          Anthony
From: steinly@topaz.ucsc.edu (Steinn Sigurdsson)
Newsgroups: talk.politics.space
Subject: Re: Space and Presidential Politics
Followup-To: talk.politics.space
Date: 30 Sep 92 12:46:53
Organization: Lick Observatory/UCO
	<1992Sep30.064629.12949@ke4zv.uucp>
NNTP-Posting-Host: topaz.ucsc.edu
In-reply-to: gary@ke4zv.uucp's message of 30 Sep 92 06:46:29 GMT

In article <1992Sep30.064629.12949@ke4zv.uucp> gary@ke4zv.uucp (Gary Coffman) writes:

   Single issue voting has a long and distinguished history. It *is*
   true that the public interest is the sum of everyone's special
   interests and single issue voting is the best way to express
   that. I'm certainly not going to vote for a candidate who opposes
   my special interests any more than I expect others to do so.
   *I'm* not the public interest. *I* can't speak for the public
   interest. Only the *sum* of individual voter interests can do
   that. Attempting to play statesman in the voting booth is a
   sure way to let the media and campaign advertising dominate
   the election process as voters base their votes on what they
   are *told* rather than on what they *know*. I say stick to the
   issues you know when making up your mind about whom to vote
   for or against, and let others do the same. The result will be
   a true expression of the public's interests.

Not necessarily true (depending in part on how you define the
public interest). You essentially assume that all voters are
informed and rational, one of the reasons for representative 
democracy in a republic rather than direct deomcracy is that
voters are not in general informed and certainly not individually
rational - examples range from outright insanity to people voting 
against their direct interests in favour of a perceived indirect
benefit. 
	Just because you have an opinion does not mean that
you _know_ what your or any interest is. Nor is it true that
two rational people presented with the same facts will necessarily
reach the same conlcusion, as in general this implies one of the
conclusions is in some sense false it follows that the public
interest is not necessarily served by the sum decision of individuals,
in particular is a plurality of the public makes its decisions based
on false assumptions the public interest is harmed. 
	Nice thing about democracy, people get to live with
the consequences of their choices, now if they only had memory...

|  Steinn Sigurdsson	|I saw two shooting stars last night		|
|  Lick Observatory	|I wished on them but they were only satellites	|
| steinly@lick.ucsc.edu |Is it wrong to wish on space hardware?		|
| "standard disclaimer"	|I wish, I wish, I wish you'd care - B.B. 1983	|
From: scarter@almaak.usc.edu (Steve Carter)
Newsgroups: talk.politics.space
Subject: Quayle on Mars
Date: 3 Oct 1992 15:44:31 -0700
Organization: University of Southern California, Los Angeles, CA
NNTP-Posting-Host: almaak.usc.edu

I'm not a reader of this newsgroup, so I hope this isn't inappropriate:

I just saw the following statement attributed to Dan Quayle:

>>Mars is essentially in the same orbit... somewhat the same distance from the
>>Sun, which is very important. We have seen pictures where there are canals,
>>we believe, and water. If there is water, that means there is oxygen. If 
>>oxygen, that means we can breathe.

Needless to say, my response to this was something akin to an attack of angina.
Can any of you space-afficionados verify or debunk this quote?  Please respond
via e-mail (if I start reading this board, I'll _never_ finish my dissertation)

-------------------------------------------------------------------        
Steve Carter                                SCARTER@ALMAAK.USC.EDU    
Dept of Psychology                                            
University of Southern California                       
Los Angeles, CA  90089-1061                                                    
-------------------------------------------------------------------            
"Most people would die sooner than think;in fact, they do so."                 
                                                  -Betrand Russell             
-------------------------------------------------------------------           
Newsgroups: talk.politics.space
From: aws@iti.org (Allen W. Sherzer)
Subject: DCX Funding (was: Re: Lunar landing in 2002)
Organization: Evil Geniuses for a Better Tomorrow
Date: Mon, 28 Sep 1992 13:21:10 GMT

In article <1992Sep26.204821.16452@techbook.com> szabo@techbook.com (Nick Szabo) writes:

>>>There is some hope for action on it if Bush gets reelected.  Nothing is going
>>>to happen on it for quite a while if Clinton replaces him.

>>Or if DC-Y is built and works.

>But the same politics apply here, alas: SDI is another highly visible
>Reagan/Bush program.  

SDI will not pay for DC-Y; that is already well established. The funding
for DCX will be secure LONG before Clinton or Bush is sworn in.

>If Clinton gets in, we'll have to hotfoot it
>to get the program into NASA,

NASA cannot successfully implement this program. It needs to be moved
into the Air Force.

  Allen

-- 
+---------------------------------------------------------------------------+
| Allen W. Sherzer | "If they can put a man on the Moon, why can't they     |
|  aws@iti.org     |  put a man on the Moon?"                               |
+----------------------208 DAYS TO FIRST FLIGHT OF DCX----------------------+
From: steinly@topaz.ucsc.edu (Steinn Sigurdsson)
Newsgroups: talk.politics.space
Subject: Re: DCX FUNDING
Date: 1 Oct 92 13:56:40
Organization: Lick Observatory/UCO
	<BvDLJx.MHE@news.cso.uiuc.edu> <1992Oct1.184147.14480@aio.jsc.nasa.gov>
NNTP-Posting-Host: topaz.ucsc.edu
In-reply-to: noyes@sweetpea.jsc.nasa.gov's message of Thu, 1 Oct 1992 18:41:47 GMT

In article <1992Oct1.184147.14480@aio.jsc.nasa.gov> noyes@sweetpea.jsc.nasa.gov (tom noyes 283-4177) writes:

     In article <BvDLJx.MHE@news.cso.uiuc.edu>, jbh55289@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (Josh 'K' Hopkins) writes:
   |> aws@iti.org (Allen W. Sherzer) writes:
  
   |> >In article <h9jz+!n@rpi.edu> kentm@aix.rpi.edu (Michael V. Kent) writes:
  
   |> >>>NASA cannot successfully implement this program. It needs to be moved
   |> >>>into the Air Force.
  
   |> >>The white-world Air Force would have the same problems as NASA.  The only
   |> >>two agencies that could pull this off are SDIO and DARPA.  (In my opinion.)
  
   |> >I aggree SDIO or DARPA are better suited however SDIO doesn't have the money
   |> >and DCY is too big for DARPA. There is however a small group in the Air
   |> >Force which does procurement the right way and could execute this program.
  
   |> Is there any possibility of McDonnell Douglass funding development if no one
   |> else takes over?  I'd heard this, but I get the impression that if it is the
   |> case, it's not something MD is eager to talk about.
  
   MD funding development of DCY? HA! we are much more likely to allocate our
   very, very, very limited capital resources to our commercial aircraft 
   development than to sink money into funding development of the DCY.
     Just get us the funding and we'll prove it! But we are so short of cash
   that we were close to bankruptcy in January. 

  
So, did MD really call in GH Stine on the DCX?
And is it true what he says about modern
engineers ;-) 

(see this months Analog). Allen you have any "sources" on this?

|  Steinn Sigurdsson	|I saw two shooting stars last night		|
|  Lick Observatory	|I wished on them but they were only satellites	|
| steinly@lick.ucsc.edu |Is it wrong to wish on space hardware?		|
| "standard disclaimer"	|I wish, I wish, I wish you'd care - B.B. 1983	|