HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: jws@billy.mlb.semi.harris.com (James W. Swonger)
Subject: Re: Welding aluminmum bellhousing
Date: Fri, 8 Jan 1993 15:10:00 GMT
Organization: Harris Semiconductor, Melbourne FL

In article <1iiareINNlkb@shelley.u.washington.edu> whit@carson.u.washington.edu (John Whitmore) writes:
>	I have used some aluminum solders that work just fine with
>zinc or other metals; if you don't need high operating
>temperatures or great strength, an aluminum solder might be your best
>patching material (and it doesn't require any fancy welding
>gear, just propane/air and maybe some fluoride-type flux).
>
 I have tried using the stick type "aluminum repair rods and can't get them
to flow, stick or hold worth a damn. What's the secret? 

-- 
##########################################################################
#Irresponsible rantings of the author alone. Any resemblance to persons  #
#living or dead then yer bummin. May cause drowsiness. Alcohol may inten-#
#sify this effect. Pay no attention to the man behind the curtain. Billy!#
From: jonesm@nic.cerf.net (Matthew Jones)
Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking
Subject: Musical Instrument Making
Date: 4 Jan 1993 16:31:01 GMT
Organization: CERFnet Dial n' CERF Customer Group
Distribution: world
NNTP-Posting-Host: nic.cerf.net

Anyone out there know of any books, magazines...
on making musical instruments. Brass instruments, pipe organs, especially
instruments with mechanical stuff (for example harps with cable pedal systems
yes, violins and guitar no).

Matthew Jones
jonesm@cerf.net
From: gary_preckshot@lccmail.ocf.llnl.gov (gary preckshot)
Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking
Subject: Re: Sigh.  What have I done now? (Re: Question about this Newsgroup)
Date: 5 Jan 93 17:18:45 GMT
Organization: LLNL

In article <1993Jan5.162544.1798@leland.Stanford.EDU>, karish@pangea.Stanford.EDU (Chuck Karish) writes:
> 
> In article <1993Jan04.225621.10823@i88.isc.com> jeq@i88.isc.com
> (Jonathan E. Quist) writes:
> >I've known a few engineers who were
> >brilliant, but had either discarded (or never had) the attention to
> >detail necessary to realize their designs without an able craftsman
> >to do the work.
> 
> This is an important observation.

That's true, but it's only one side of the coin.  The flip side is best
illustrated by the ASME boiler code.  It came about because too many
people were dying because craftsman were making locomotive boilers
by cut and try.  A lot of them were unaware of engineering scaling
laws, material behavior under heat and corrosive conditions, and structural
mechanics of plates and tubes.  Sometimes boilers exploded.

> The characterization of craftsmen as ignorant menial
> workers does not match any usage of the word with which I'm
> familiar.

Craftsman never were considered menials, that was reserved for laborers.
However, they were, and still are, considered tied to the processes,
tools, and practices they learned as apprentices and journeymen.

Nor were, and are, craftsman considered ignorant and stupid.  To the contrary,
they are expected to be knowledgeable about their materials and tools,
but not expected to be knowledgeable or trained in higher competences, such as
letters, history, mathematics, physics, or engineering.  Please don't insert
extra words into what I've previously said about craftsman.  They are both
a necessary part of our culture and often a stage in an individual's growth.
They just are not imbued with the numinous glory popularly attributed to
them by the nostalgia set.
From: hes@ncsu.edu (Henry E. Schaffer)
Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking
Subject: Victor TurboTorch - how good is it?
Date: 12 Jan 93 04:01:14 GMT
Organization: North Carolina State University
Originator: hes@sparcler.cc.ncsu.edu


  Some years ago I saw some advertising material for these
torches which made claims about producing much higher 
temperatures than normal.  My vague memory is that there
were implications that propane in this torch was about as
good as MAPP in a normal torch, and that MAPP here was
about as good as acetylene there.  I never tried this type
of torch, never talked to anyone who had and never saw any
independent type of study.

  Does anyone know how well they work?

--henry schaffer
Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking
From: tceisele@mtu.edu (Eisele)
Subject: Re: Welding aluminmum bellhousing
Organization: Michigan Technological University
Date: Wed, 6 Jan 1993 22:20:21 GMT

noorder@aurora.cis.upenn.edu (Alexander Noordergraaf) writes:
>
>	Howdy all,
>
>	I finally finished taking apart the transmission on a friends '88 
>Honda CRX Si. At some point in its life an object hit the underside of the 
>aluminum bell housing hard enough to break off a small piece and cause a
>inch long crack.  Since the housing is out anyway (for a new clutch) I 
>would like to repair this damage. I have access to both arc and oxy/acetylene
>welding. Which would be better? I looked up aluminum welding in the 
>Lincoln Arc Welding Reference book I have and they don't mention 
>arc welding with aluminum. Can I successfully weld aluminum with arc or
>gas? What type or rod/filler should I use? The area that should be
>filled is less than an inch square.
>
>	Any and all advice appreciated, Alex (noorder@aurora.cis.upenn.edu)
>
>
No, you cannot weld aluminum with an arc welder.  The coating on the rods
does not give enough protection from atmospheric oxygen, and the molten
aluminum puddle will oxidize really badly.  I understand that gas-welding
aluminum is possible with a highly reducing flame, but does not really do
all that well because carbon dioxide is not too good of a shielding gas for
aluminum.  An inert gas, such as Argon or Helium, is much preferable, which
pretty much limits you to using either a MIG or TIG welder (In fact, the
TIG (Tungsten Inert Gas) welder was originally invented because nothing
else really gave a satisfactory aluminum weld at the time.  TIG's take a
good deal of skill to use, though, so if you can get hold of a MIG and some
aluminum wire, that would probably work better)
You can try with the torch if you can't get anything better, but you might
ruin it.  I assume the housing is cast aluminum, which is pretty easy to
break and may not handle the thermal stress very well.  If the aluminum
fill doesn't bond (either because of oxidation, or because of carbon
deposits from the reducing flame) then you could have a real mess on your
hands.  I would practice on some scrap aluminum castings first.

Hope this helps.

-- 
====================================
Tim Eisele     Michigan Tech. University   tceisele@mtu.edu
Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking
From: copeland@lamar.ColoState.EDU (Jeffrey Copeland)
Subject: Re: Brass Casting 
Date: Thu, 07 Jan 1993 04:35:51 GMT
Organization: Colorado State University, Fort Collins, CO  80523

In article <C0GE5v.C4A@oryx.com> xdepec@chevy.NoSubdomain.NoDomain (preston e chaney jr) writes:
>I am interested is casting a Brass Western style belt buckle.
>To this end I made a woodcarving of the design and made a 
>plaster of paris (negative) mold of the woodcarving. As a test
>I melted linotype metal with a welding torch and dripped it into
>the mold with satisfactory results. I am now wondering if I can
>cast brass ( at 1700+ deg.) into a plaster mold. Also is there a special
>Brass for casting or can I melt brass rod. Is the temp critical or 
>can I melt the brass in a crucible with the welding torch and pour.
>If special supplies are required for casting where can they be obtained.
> 
>Thanks
>Preston Chaney
>Email pchaney@oryx.com
Proper casting is done in "investment" a mix of plaster and silica, plaster and  
fine sand may be an ok substitute.  Other options are wet sand, tufa stone, 
soft fire brick and cuttlefish bone.  With the cuttlefish bone you slice
it in half, smooth it and press your carving into one half.

When melting your brass its best if its in small pieces first in a crucible
so that it all melts at once quickly.  The longer you expose it to the flame
the more it oxidizes.

Rio Grande (1-800-545-6566) ask for their tool catalogue (jeweler's stuff)
has lots of casting equiptment from casting alloys and investment to $50,000
vacuum pressure casting machines.

good luck, Jeff Copeland - Atmospheric Science - Colorado State University


Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking
From: cbl@uihepa.hep.uiuc.edu (Chris Luchini)
Subject: Oil/Water/Air hardening tool steel
Reply-To: cbl@uihepa.hep.uiuc.edu
Organization: High Energy Physics, University of Illinois, Urbana-Champaign
Date: Tue, 5 Jan 1993 02:17:07 GMT

I'm trying to make a swaging die to expand bullets. 

The rough dimensions of the die are 7/8" diameter threaded 14/inch by 
about 2.25" long,  with
a hole .4585" hole borred for about 1.75", and the remainder drilled to
.250". I've been told that

1) I'll only get dimensional stability with Air hardened steel,
2) That the hardening process will de-carbonize the steel to 
a depth of .002-.005, thus making it very soft.

If point 2 above is true, then I might as well go with the much cheaper
Oil or water hardening steels, as I'll have to rough cut and then
final cut the .4585 hole after hardening anyway. 

Does anyone have any suggestions as to what hardness I should quench
the die after hardening? The loads on the die are going to be quasi-static
and of order 30-70Kpsi. 


*1110 W. Green/Urbana IL 61801/217-333-0505/cbl@uihepa.hep.uiuc.edu
From: jonesm@nic.cerf.net (Matthew Jones)
Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking
Subject: Chime tube lengths
Date: 12 Jan 1993 16:07:54 GMT
Organization: CERFnet Dial n' CERF Customer Group
Distribution: world
NNTP-Posting-Host: nic.cerf.net

When making wind chimes or whistles the lenght of the tube controls
the pitch. Does anyone have a method for determining lengths of the tube for
a given pitch. I would like a better way than tube mallet hacksaw and my piano.

Matthew Jones
jonesm@cerf.net
Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking
From: rmt@pioneer.net.com (Richard Tweedie)
Subject: Re: Al and Steel : some questions
Keywords: metal, hitting, lasting, color, uhm...
Organization: Network Equipment Technologies
Date: Tue, 5 Jan 1993 16:37:41 GMT

In article <1389@blue.cis.pitt.edu> fmg@alpha.smi.med.pitt.edu (Filip Gieszczykiewicz) writes:
>
>	1) I am making some of my armour at a local armorer. I have also
>	   been folowing a long and heated thread on rec.org.sca about
>	   how "Aluminum does not look/is authentic"... Since there is
>	   no way back (and the reduced weight is my goal) I would like
>	   to do something to make my armor look more like period "stuff".
>
>	   a) I can paint it - but it will look nice for the first few
>	      blows (yes, my armor will see "action" :-) I could always
>	      reapply the paint but this will make it a nightmare.
>	   b) I can anodize it - yes, but how and how good is the result.
>	      I would also like to point out that we fight with duct-tape-
>	      covered-rattan (wood) not (ouch) live steel. How well does
>	      anodized Al stand up to abuse? Also, I would be interested
>	      in COLOR... (being into electronics) I have some Al heat-
>	      sinks that are black - coal black. Even if this DOES look
>	      better than shiny Al... I don't even want to think how well
>	      it absorbs the suns rays on a good summer sunny day! So,
>	      what are my options? I was thinking of anodizing my armor and
>	      then (since the surface was very rough) painting it with
>	      metal enamel... will this work?
>

HOw about hard Chromic anodizing?  I have been using that method for
parts
on the airplane (thorp T-18 Tiger) that I am building.

Chromic anodizing is **MUCH** harder than sulphuric anodizing, and goes
to
a greater depth.  It also is the best anti-corrosion treatment for 
aluminum that I am aware of.

    stuff deleted
	
>	   b) Plate - how and how good? More basic: I know I can plate
>	      copper and bronze but what about steel? I guess my ideal
>	      would be either SS or (yeah, right :-) gold. Since I have no
>	      idea if anything can be plated to steel, I won't BS anymore
>	      however - I've heard that attaching strips of Zinc in the
>	      vicinity of steel works (sounds more like alchemy to me). I
>	      believe that that's what's used by the Alaskan pipeline to
>	      keep the pipes from corroding. No idea how feasible that
>	      would be (maybe put the zinc on the inside?)
Steel can be plated with many other materials (chrome comes to mind!)
and can also be coated (hot dip zinc galvanized, tin , solder)

  more deleted

  An aside, aircraft aluminum rivets would be better for corrosion 
  and strength than copper.  They come in several different alloys,
  2s (dead soft) and A17s (2017, much harder) would be the 
  applicable ones--the so-called ice box rivets (such as 2024)
  should be avoided (they are much too hard).

  Rich Tweedie
Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking
From: ndmead%gr.cs.utah.edu@cs.utah.edu (Nathan Mead)
Subject: Re: Propane torch recommendations (silver soldering)
Date: 6 Jan 93 13:58:31 MST
Organization: University of Utah
Distribution: usa

In article <hank.726344866@well.sf.ca.us>, hank@well.sf.ca.us (Hank Roberts) writes:
|> 
|> I got one of those little "pony" size rigs too -- paid to have the
|> regulators on it checked by a welding store that carried them, sinche
|> they hadn't been used for a while.  NOTE that pressure bottles expire --
|> there is a month-year date stamped into the metal. You'll have to have
|> a tank hydrostatically tested for leaks before it's refilled if it's past
|> date (check the cost where you'd get it refilled).

My recollection is that only the high pressure gas bottles ( oxygen, 
argon etc.) have to be hydro-tested.  I have never hade a acetylene bottle 
tested and it was my understanding that they are filled with acetone and porous
concrete.  Appearently the acetylene is stored as a dissolved gas in the acetone and the concrete prevents the formation of large ( unstable ) pockets of gas.
I have seen date stamps on  low pressure 
 
|> I'm switching my little rig to propane-oxygen, and maybe will back down to
|> propane-compressed-air when the oxy runs out.

I have used propane-oxygen for cutting with very good results aside from a little longer pre-heating time.  This mix is much cheaper to use and also very good for most soldering applications.  However for gas welding of steel I much prefer oxygen-acetylene.

|> 
|> Wear eye protection.

Always good advice.

Nathan Mead
Center for Engineering Design
University of Utah
From: gary_preckshot@lccmail.ocf.llnl.gov (gary preckshot)
Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking
Subject: Re: Sigh.  What have I done now? (Re: Question about this Newsgroup)
Date: 4 Jan 93 21:05:51 GMT
Organization: LLNL

In article <1993Jan04.184704.3772@i88.isc.com>, jeq@i88.isc.com (Jonathan E. Quist) writes:
> 
> 
[Stuff to Jim K. deleted]
> Well, I'm not sure what to make of this.  You seemed to start out saying
> I can call myself by an appropriate term, but that if someone then
> attempts to clarify the meaning, I should be insulted....  Maybe I
> just didn't read this correctly.

No, you didn't.  If you want to call yourself a craftsman, that's ok by
me.  However, if you want to call us all craftsman, that's not ok.  And
it's really not relevant that you are "proud to be a craftsman".  You're
speaking for yourself, not me.

Please don't regard this as an insult, but if you call yourself a craftsman,
you are saying that you have "manual skills but no higher competence."  If
this doesn't suit you, then maybe you are now more than a craftsman.  See
below about your grandfather.

[Stuff about Mr. Quist's grandfather deleted]

You say about your grandfather that he was a master blacksmith and then
he did all this other stuff.  This doesn't prove anything about the definition
of craft, it just proves that your grandfather was a smart and motivated guy.
He went beyond being a mere craftsman and became an inventor and a successful
businessman.  That's not true about the majority - they put in their time
and go home.  A craftsman learns his craft by rote and most never advance
even beyond journeyman.  The exceptional ones become something more, but
that hardly changes the meaning of the word.  As a matter of fact, before
university education became commonplace, your grandfather's history was
typical of most self-made men.  They had no other legal way to advance.


> 
> Maybe I'll just sit back, stack some firebrick around my workstation,
> and see if I can build the first Usenet-flame-fired forge.
> 

Now come on!  I haven't flaming you nor am I trying to flame you.  If you want
to see what flames are, go read news.groups.  The net admins set an example for
flaming there that is probably only exceeded in soc.religion.* and
sci.environment.
Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking
From: hank@well.sf.ca.us (Hank Roberts)
Subject: Crafts name discussion (was Re: Question about this Newsgroup)
Organization: Whole Earth 'Lectronic Link
Date: Wed, 6 Jan 1993 18:22:47 GMT

In <1icebpINNbsr@news.cerf.net> jonesm@nic.cerf.net (Matthew Jones) writes:

>All this has been argued before, and I and many others are not interested.
>So for those who wish to discuss it: please use a key phrase like
>"crafts name discussion" in the subject so I can use the killfile on that
>thread. I think that would demonstrait cooperation with and consideration
>for the r.c.m readers.

>Please, in the future please try to indicate in the subject line 
>non-technical discussions, I think I am not the only one who would appreciate
>the warning.

>Sincerely,

>Matthew Jones
>jonesm@cerf.net
I'm a member of an "arts and crafts cooperative" in Berkeley, and I fall
nicely outside the inevitable VENN diagram because I make mobiles.

I don't have to jury with the artists, because I don't compete for wall
space with them so they aren't concerned about limiting what I put there
for sale.  And I don't have to jury with the craftspeople, because I don't
compete for surface display space with them.

Whereas the crafts people who make wall hangings, and the artists who make
standup sculpture, are competing for space that's jealously defended.
From: purtilo@cs.umd.edu (Jim Purtilo)
Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking
Subject: lapping
Date: 12 Jan 93 02:40:07 GMT
Organization: U of Maryland, Dept. of Computer Science, Coll. Pk., MD 20742


Let's talk "lapping".....

I've seen references to this in many contexts.  There are lots
of circumstances in which you want to metal parts to be fit closely,
and so finding a way to work some abrasive between them as they 
work together for a period would seem to get the rough spots smoothed
out.  But that simple description, assuming its correct, sure leaves
a lot to be inferred.  So does anyone have a few more details or
experiences to share?

In my case, I mostly (but not exclusively) tinker on a firearm or 
two, and know there are places (smoothing a slide's operation or a
trigger) where stoning is typical.  I am wondering if I am missing
out on viable or desirable options by not knowing about lapping
compounds and how to use them.

Thanks

Jim
From: jimkirk@news.uwyo.edu
Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking
Subject: FAQ part 0 of 2
Date: 10 Jan 93 23:24:12 MST
Distribution: world
Organization: University of Wyoming - Laramie, WY

I am about to post the latest revision to the FAQ.  I really appreciate
all the help in getting this going and expanding it.

There are many minor changes, typos fixed, and a bit of moving around.

Significant changes:

  A new book, "Clockmaking and Modelmaking"
  A video tape section (short so far!)
  Another magazine: Model Engineer's Workshop
  Several more names and addresses of suppliers/publishers

Keep the suggestions coming in!

Jim Kirkpatrick
From: gary_preckshot@lccmail.ocf.llnl.gov (gary preckshot)
Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking
Subject: Alex, did you buy the mill?
Date: 4 Jan 93 22:03:31 GMT
Organization: LLNL

In the last exciting episode, Alex was off to Enco to check out a new mill.
Christmas has come and gone.  Well, Alex, what did Santa bring?
From: razzell@cs.ubc.ca (Dan Razzell)
Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking
Subject: Re: Chime tube lengths
Date: 12 Jan 1993 20:24:44 GMT
Organization: University of British Columbia, Vancouver, B.C., Canada
Distribution: world
NNTP-Posting-Host: dosequis.cs.ubc.ca

In article <1iuqcqINNpk5@news.cerf.net>,
jonesm@nic.cerf.net (Matthew Jones) writes:

> When making wind chimes or whistles the lenght of the tube controls
> the pitch. Does anyone have a method for determining lengths of the tube for
> a given pitch?

This is not a complete answer, but may help.

First thing to note is that various factors affect the way different
materials resonate, the simplest being mass and length, though there are
lots of others.  In the case of a cylindrical wind chime, the length
required to produce a given pitch therefore depends at minimum on the
type of material and its diameter, both of which affect the mass.  In
the case of a whistle, the resonating material is primarily air, not
the material from which the whistle is built, though its stiffness will
certainly affect the tone.

The second point you probably already know, but it's worth stating just
for the record.  If one chime is half the length of another, its pitch
frequency will be twice as high.  That is, the two will be exactly an
octave apart.  Since there are twelve tones in the chromatic scale, a
halftone interval requires the frequency ratios to be the 12th root of
two.  The major fifth and major third intervals turn out to be simple
ratios of 1/3 and 1/5 respectively, which probably explains why we find
them pleasing.  But note that (2^-12) is actually pretty close to
unity, and this makes the chimes quite sensitive to slight inaccuracies
of length, not to mention material density and other factors.

My conclusion from all of this is that unless you really know your material,
you can't really get away from having to tune these things by hand.  To
illustrate, I once spent most of an afternoon going through boxes of bronze
cowbells, all cast from the same mold.  It was easier to construct second
and third intervals than it was to find two bells that were in unison.

-- 
      .^.^.      Dan Razzell <razzell@cs.ubc.ca>
     . o o .     Laboratory for Computational Intelligence
     . >v< .     University of British Columbia
______mm.mm_______________________________________________
From: jharres@doc.bmd.trw.com
Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking
Subject: Smithy lathe -any experience/opinion?
Date: 7 Jan 93 09:39:04 MST

As the Smithy lathe/mill is not mentioned in the FAQ, what experience
has anyone had with it?  Accurate?  Reliable?  Sturdy?  etc.

Thanks
Jim         jharres@doc.bmd.trw.com
From: darkstar@u.pathology.washington.edu (Alden Hackmann)
Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking
Subject: Need books on lathes
Date: 6 Jan 93 18:23:53 GMT
Organization: University of Washington
NNTP-Posting-Host: larry.pathology.washington.edu


I am looking for books on the use of a metal lathe, a subject on which I am  
almost entirely ignorant.  Replies by email please.  

My application is that I need to make a shaft for a hurdy-gurdy, a medieval  
French stringed instrument.  


Alden F.M. Hackmann                             University of Washington
darkstar@u.washington.edu                       Department of Pathology

"You can know, even for a moment, that it's your turn, 
 that you can walk with the power of a thousand generations"  - Bruce Cockburn
From: callas@eris.enet.dec.com (Jon Callas)
Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking
Subject: Re: Propane torch recommendations (silver soldering)
Date: 12 Jan 93 21:49:16 GMT
Reply-To: callas@eris.enet.dec.com (Jon Callas)
Distribution: usa
Organization: Digital Equipment Corporation


I concur with liking acetylene/air torches. Anything that's a Prestolite or
equivalent is great, and can be had cheaply from any welding supply shop.

	Jon