HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: miklg@acuson.com (Michael Goldman )
Subject: Re: _Target Hitler_ a book review
Organization: Acuson; Mountain View, California
Date: Thu, 21 Jan 1993 15:41:25 GMT

dxb105@huxley.anu.edu.au (David Bofinger) writes:

>In article <C1658G.GtC@news.dtc.hp.com>, wallace@dtc.hp.com (David Wallace)
>writes:
>> In fact, far from being executed, wasn't he made the head of the West
>> German army once the Allies allowed W. Germany to rearm in the mid 1950s?

>Hadn't heard that. Come to think of it, Guderian fought mostly on the
>Eastern front, didn't he? So how did he dodge his way out of being handed
>over to the Russians?

	Guderian was one of the planners and leaders in the attack on France
	about which his writings are very interesting.  He writes that he
	looked at the Belgian "impenetrable forests" that the French were
	relying on to forestall any tank attack through that area and
	found them to be pleasant grassy rolling hills - well suited for
	tank movements.  Nothing like a little investigative footwork.

	In the attack through Belgium, he notes that his standard approach
	was to surround a Belgian or French fort, point out to the commander
	that resistance was useless, and quickly receive the surrender.  The
	exception to this was a British commander who replied in effect: "you
	are right - we will lose this battle, but we are soldiers and so it
	is our duty to fight."  Guderian seems to admire this attitude, in
	that it delayed his advance by enough to allow many soldiers to
	escape Dunkirk, and was therefore the professional thing to do.

	He also was a member of the troops that went into Austria in the
	Anschluss, and is quite critical of Churchill for writing that
	the Austrians were sad about it all.  He says, essentially, 'I
	was there, and it was a nice sunny day, and everyone was happy
	to see us.'

	Later, as was noted, he fought on the Eastern front and became
	head of the whole front by the end, I believe.

	I read his memoirs 20 years ago, so I may have been mistaken about
	his being executed, but I recall my surprise that a basic soldier,
	apparently uninvolved with the atrocities, was executed.  I would
	be interested in something definitive, instead of this 'I seem to
	recall...' stuff.

	- Michael Goldman

-- 
"History teaches us that men and nations behave wisely once they have
exhausted all other alternatives." - Abba Eban
	Disclaimer:  All views are solely my own & not the views of Acuson.
	<sun!sono!miklg>  or  [miklg@acuson.com]
From: cramer@optilink.COM (Clayton Cramer)
Newsgroups: soc.history
Subject: Language Requirements: History Grad Schools
Date: 26 Jan 93 22:38:32 GMT
Organization: Optilink Corporation, Petaluma, CA


I've heard conflicting stories about foreign language fluency
requirements for grad school.  I'm not surprised that there is
a requirement for fluency in a language other than English in
many doctoral programs.  How common of a requirement is it for
application to grad school?

Let me emphasize that I'm not upset about such requirements --
just that I'm coming up towards graduation in two semesters,
and for a variety of reasons, I have taken only two trimesters
of Russian at the college level (and most of that faded away
when Carter was still President).  I took German in grades
7-11, and that is almost adequate to read a German newspaper,
with a dictionary nearby.

If a language flency requirement is common for entrance to
grad school, I may have to delay my graduation a bit...
-- 
Clayton E. Cramer {uunet,pyramid}!optilink!cramer  My opinions, all mine!
"When freedom destroys order, order will destroy freedom." -- Eric Hoffer
Not a goal, just a statement of reality.
From: pdaunno@Ingres.COM (Paul Daunno)
Newsgroups: soc.history
Subject: Studying Suggestions
Keywords: studying suggestions
Date: 27 Jan 93 18:53:01 GMT
Article-I.D.: pony.1993Jan27.185301.21072
Organization: ASK Computer Systems, Ingres Product Division
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.4-b1

Hi,

I just started taking a course last night called "The Rise of Europe".
I have never been much of a history buff and have struggled in the past
with these types of courses.  The texts are filled with facts, etc. and
the class lectures are too.  I'd like some ideas as to how to learn all
of this information.  How much detail is really neccessary in terms of
exams?

Any and all ideas, tips, tricks, whatever is GREATLY appreciated.

Paul Daunno
Ingres, An ASK Group
From: jaskew@spam.ua.oz (Joseph Askew)
Newsgroups: soc.history
Subject: Re: _Target Hitler_ a book review
Summary: I would second that
Date: 22 Jan 93 02:15:50 GMT
Followup-To: soc.history
Organization: Statistics, Pure & Applied Mathematics, University of Adelaide

In article <1993Jan18.194701.10378@acuson.com> miklg@acuson.com (Michael Goldman ) writes:
>vzhivov@alfred.carleton.ca (Vladimir Zhivov) writes:

>>So to sum up my response
>>to Guderian's claims (as related above) - BOLLOCKS!!!

>       The time Guderian was referring to was the 1939-1941 Hitler-
>       Stalin Friendship pact.  Possibly you didn't hear of it?

I would also like to say that I have heard this story. Also another one.
Guderian claims he was shown around a Soviet train factory. He says that
besides trains that factory also built, as a side line, tanks. They made
22 tanks a month. Guderian calculated how many months production this one
factory would take to match the *entire* Wehrmacht's supply. It was something
like thirteen. This was *one* factory which wasn't even a tank factory. He
claims to have told Hitler this too.

Joseph Askew

-- 
Joseph Askew, Gauche and Proud  Barbarian horns draw out the northern wind;
jaskew@spam.maths.adelaide.edu  Paler than water lies the Thistle Pass;
Disclaimer? Sue, see if I care  Sky swallows up the road to Kokonor;
One China One Korea One Eire32  Moonlight, a thousand miles along the Wall.
From: accran@gsusgi2.gsu.edu (Robert Nehmer)
Subject: Re: St. Augustine
Organization: Georgia State University
Date: Tue, 26 Jan 1993 18:20:04 GMT

ogil@quads.uchicago.edu (Brian W. Ogilvie) writes:

>In article <nestabro.727973425@nova> nestabro@nova.gmi.edu (Noel Estabrook) writes:
>>Anybody out there know the exact dates for St. Augustine?  E-mail

>I imagine, since he came from North Africa, that they were palm dates.
>Are there any other kinds?

Didn't he stop going on dates, after he met Ambrose in Milan?
From: cramer@optilink.COM (Clayton Cramer)
Newsgroups: soc.history
Subject: Re: Texas Slavery (was Davy Crockett)
Date: 26 Jan 93 18:26:02 GMT
Organization: Optilink Corporation, Petaluma, CA

In article <2032@spam.ua.oz>, jaskew@spam.ua.oz (Joseph Askew) writes:
> In article <1993Jan20.092848.1@ssrl01.slac.stanford.edu> cowan@ssrl01.slac.stanford.edu (P.L. Cowan) writes:
# #On the darker side, somebody mentioned that Crockett was only in Texas
# #on a business trip. I believe his "business" was selling slaves. Following
# #this line, is it true that one motivation for the War for Texas Independence was
# #the desire of the Texans to preserve slavery in the face of Mexican efforts to
# #end it?
# 
# The Mexican government decided to free all slaves in Mexico. The Anglo
# settlers weren't happy and declared independence. In short the only real
# motivation for 'independence' was a desire to keep slavery. I have never
# seen any other reason cited although usually it is not put so boldly. The
# usual practise (from all I have read) is to claim it was 'interference in
# American customs and practises' ie slavery. Certainly the freeing of slaves
# and the revolt were very close indeed and there was little else to suggest
# a reason for the break at that exact time. You have to admire the way that
# the issue of slavery is played down in most text books and the euphemisms
# used to hide the fact.
# 
# Joseph Askew

I've read that while slavery in Mexico was illegal, a series
of fictious "indentured servitude" contracts were used to keep slaves
brought into Mexican Texas in slavery.

Another factor that motivated American opposition to Mexican 
Government in both Texas and California was the requirement that
to pass on anything of value to your heirs, you had to be Catholic.
Since Americans of that time were overwhelmingly Protestant, this
created serious problems as American settlers got old enough to 
start worrying about who was going to get their ranch.
-- 
Clayton E. Cramer {uunet,pyramid}!optilink!cramer  My opinions, all mine!
"When freedom destroys order, order will destroy freedom." -- Eric Hoffer
Not a goal, just a statement of reality.
Newsgroups: soc.history
From: cb@tamarack13.timbuk (Chris Brewster)
Subject: Re: Studying Suggestions
Followup-To: soc.history
In-reply-to: JBrandt@AAA.Uoregon.EDU's message of 27 Jan 1993 22:42:32 GMT
Organization: pubs
	<JBrandt-270193142852@fp1-dialin-3.uoregon.edu>
Date: 28 Jan 93 12:53:02 CST


"Pegasus" makes some good points about studying history on a holistic
level.  I think the first poster was more concerned about just jamming
*facts* into his head.  Without disagreeing with Pegasus, I think raw
facts are indeed important and difficult to remember, and are not always
digested within the holistic approach.  I used to make a two-column
sheet on which the left column was questions such as "Date of so-and-so"
or "Prime ministers under Victoria".  I'd cover the right column and
keep going over the sheet until I could say all the answers.  This is a
labor-intensive approach that you use for the facts you *must* know.

Chris Brewster
cb@cray.com
From: traynor@fnala.fnal.gov
Newsgroups: soc.history
Subject: Re: St. Augustine
Date: 26 Jan 93 13:03:42 -0600
Organization: Fermi National Accelerator Lab
NNTP-Posting-Host: fnala.fnal.gov

In article <1993Jan26.053218.7064@midway.uchicago.edu>, ogil@quads.uchicago.edu (Brian W. Ogilvie) writes:
> In article <nestabro.727973425@nova> nestabro@nova.gmi.edu (Noel Estabrook) writes:
>>Anybody out there know the exact dates for St. Augustine?  E-mail
> 
> I imagine, since he came from North Africa, that they were palm dates.
> Are there any other kinds?
> 
> 
> -- 
> Brian W. Ogilvie           DISCLAIMER: You think I have time to
> b-ogilvie@uchicago.edu       think about everything I post?

I think he died in 429 near or in Carthage.  He died during the Vandal
siege of Carthage, I think.

				-Mike Traynor

NNN  NN DDDD    Mike Traynor (ND '86)(Rice '94?) |||     Amiga 500 owner   ///
 N N N   DR D   Fermilab PO Box 500 MS 221 E683  |||     w/MMR 13 Meg RAM ///
 N  NN   D RD   Batavia IL, 60510   USA         //|\\    190 Meg HD   \\\/// 
NN   NN DDDD    (708) 879-6095 [ans. mach.]    /// \\\   14.4Kbps modem\XX/
Newsgroups: soc.history
Subject: Re: THE DIVINE MASTERS, THROUGHOUT HISTORY
From: wlange@eis.calstate.edu (Walter C. Lange)
Date: Tue, 26 Jan 1993 14:34:44 GMT
Organization: Calif State Univ/Electronic Information Services

Thanks for clearing up these questions which have been plaguing us.
From: LDAA@UDESVM.BITNET
Newsgroups: soc.history
Subject: Cortez, Pizarro and Montesquieu
Date: 22 Jan 93 17:36:16 GMT
Organization: Universit de Sherbrooke



In the "Discours sur les motifs qui doivent nous encourager aux sciences",
Montesquieu says that an important factor in the invaders victory was
that the indigenous population thought they were surnatural because of
their appearance and their technology.

Is this

a) false
b) some grain of truth in it
c) true

Pierre Blackburn
departement de philosophie
College de Sherbrooke, Quebec, Canada
From: jaskew@spam.ua.oz (Joseph Askew)
Newsgroups: soc.history
Subject: Re: Texas Slavery (was Davy Crockett)
Summary: Thats about the size of it
Date: 26 Jan 93 00:50:51 GMT
Followup-To: soc.history
Organization: Statistics, Pure & Applied Mathematics, University of Adelaide

In article <1993Jan20.092848.1@ssrl01.slac.stanford.edu> cowan@ssrl01.slac.stanford.edu (P.L. Cowan) writes:
>In article <1993Jan19.033631.11585@cbnewsl.cb.att.com>, stank@cbnewsl.cb.att.com (Stan Krieger) writes:

>On the darker side, somebody mentioned that Crockett was only in Texas
>on a business trip. I believe his "business" was selling slaves. Following
>this line, is it true that one motivation for the War for Texas Independence was
>the desire of the Texans to preserve slavery in the face of Mexican efforts to
>end it?

The Mexican government decided to free all slaves in Mexico. The Anglo
settlers weren't happy and declared independence. In short the only real
motivation for 'independence' was a desire to keep slavery. I have never
seen any other reason cited although usually it is not put so boldly. The
usual practise (from all I have read) is to claim it was 'interference in
American customs and practises' ie slavery. Certainly the freeing of slaves
and the revolt were very close indeed and there was little else to suggest
a reason for the break at that exact time. You have to admire the way that
the issue of slavery is played down in most text books and the euphemisms
used to hide the fact.


Joseph Askew


-- 
Joseph Askew, Gauche and Proud  Barbarian horns draw out the northern wind;
jaskew@spam.maths.adelaide.edu  Paler than water lies the Thistle Pass;
Disclaimer? Sue, see if I care  Sky swallows up the road to Kokonor;
One China One Korea One Eire32  Moonlight, a thousand miles along the Wall.
Newsgroups: soc.history
From: vzhivov@alfred.carleton.ca (Vladimir Zhivov)
Subject: Re: Soviet Losses at Stalingrad
Organization: Carleton University
Date: Sat, 23 Jan 1993 01:03:34 GMT

In <1993Jan22.152032.1@cubldr.colorado.edu> parson_r@cubldr.colorado.edu (Robert Parson) writes:

>In article <vzhivov.727717611@cunews>, 
>vzhivov@alfred.carleton.ca (Vladimir Zhivov) writes:
>> Today, Reuters carried a small news-item on Soviet losses in the
>> Battle of Stalingrad. According to RUSSIAN historians (this appeared
>> in the TRUD newspaper, a trade union publication), 1.1 million
>> Soviet soldiers perished (that's killed, not counting the wounded or
>> POWs) in this epic and decisive battle. Also, 13500 Soviet soldiers
>> were executed for cowardice. Any comments on these figures? They sound
>> reasonable to me. If anyone can provide any more details (names of
>> these historians, publications) please do so. Also, what are the
>> estimated German (and allied - Italian, Rumanian, Hungarian)
>> casualties in this battle?
>> 
>>                                                             Vladimir


> According to Wm. Craig, _Enemy at the Gates: The Battle for Stalingrad_
> (1973):
>	Germans 	400,000
>	Italians 	130,000
>	Hungarians 	120,000
>	Rumanians	200,000

> He says that Soviet Official Sources told him, off the record, that
> Red Army _total_ losses (killed, wounded, and missing - of course a
> large proportion of the prisoners would have died in Nazi POW camps but
> then again I don't suppose the Germans _took_ many prisoners in this
> battle) come to 750,000. The number of civilian deaths is large but
> unknown - 40,000 killed in the first bombardment, and the total is
> probably far larger. Perhaps the new figures include civilian losses?
> Of course, Craig's 1973-vintage Soviet sources may have underestimated,
> deliberately or otherwise.

The new figures are specifically military (i.e. soldiers in uniform).
Craig's book, for what it is worth, is generally considered unreliable
and somewhat biased (especially in the Axis POW accounts which are
simply not true). 
                                                            Vladimir
From: nestabro@nova.gmi.edu (Noel Estabrook)
Subject: St. Augustine
Organization: GMI Engineering&Management Institute, Flint, MI
Date: Mon, 25 Jan 1993 14:50:25 GMT

Anybody out there know the exact dates for St. Augustine?  E-mail

--
Noel Estabrook			|	Knowledge without action is like
nestabro@nova.gmi.edu         --|--     snow on a hot stove.
Instructional Design & Tech.    |     
Michigan State University       |               Romans 12:2
From: mcmahon@owlnet.rice.edu (Michael G. McMahon)
Newsgroups: soc.history
Subject: Why do they call it the Black Sea?
Date: 27 Jan 93 20:58:43 GMT
Organization: Rice University

Subject says it all.  

-mike

-- 
There is a level of cowardice lower than that of the conformist:
  the fashionable non-conformist.   -ayn rand
From: an6139@anon.penet.fi (Xager)
Subject: Re: Columbus/Slaves
Organization: Anonymous contact service
X-Anonymously-To: soc.history
Date: Thu, 21 Jan 1993 21:59:00 GMT

X-Anon-To:  soc.history

Chris Brewster of cb@tamarack13.timbuk WRITES on21 Jan 93 20:11:40 GMT:

> Mike Fester writes:

>> . . . the American Great Plains . . . [were] burned off by the
>> Indians several thousand years ago in an old method of hunting
>> buffalo.
   ^^^^^^^

> . . . the great plains were always prairie . . .  Fires were a basic
                                                    ^^^^^
> part of the prairie/forest competition, though the fires were only
> the relatively rare ones caused by lightning.

    Fire and buffalo.  When a part of the forest was levelled by
lightning-lit fire, regular passage of the 100-million-plus American
bison guaranteed that it would stay level.
    Until Europeans arrived and wiped the bison, there were never
enough people to support the fire-plus-Indian theory.  Curiously, now
that millions of people inhabit the Great Plains, the trees are
starting to come back.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------
To find out more about the anon service, send mail to help@anon.penet.fi.
Due to the double-blind system, any replies to this message will be anonymized,
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Newsgroups: soc.history
From: creps@nickel.ucs.indiana.edu (Steve Creps)
Subject: Re: THE DIVINE MASTERS, THROUGHOUT HISTORY
Organization: Indiana University
Date: Tue, 26 Jan 1993 21:42:29 GMT

In article <FXARS.93Jan26093538@rama2.acf-lab.alaska.edu> fxars@camelot.acf-lab.alaska.edu (Allen R Sparks) writes:
>What gets me about that post was that it wasn't a crosspost from
>somewhere else like most of the nuts that post on this group.  Why did
>he pick this group?  === Al

   Well, it wasn't a crosspost in the traditional sense: he just
posted it separately to lots of different groups.  I guess his
reasoning was that people would have to wade through this trash
several times.

   It's also not the first time this same person has posted this same
article to lots of Usenet groups and mailing lists.

-	-	-	-	-	-	-	-	-	-
Steve Creps, Indiana University
creps@silver.ucs.indiana.edu
Newsgroups: soc.history
From: mohang@netcom.com (Mohan Gopalakrishnan)
Subject: Call for discussion to form new newsgroup SOC.HISTORY.SOUTHASIA
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services  (408 241-9760 guest) 
Date: Mon, 25 Jan 1993 05:16:18 GMT


                         Call for discussion on forming NewsGroup
                         ----------------------------------------
                                     -SOC.HISTORY.SOUTHASIA
                                      ---------------------
     I do not know the exact procedure to do this and would like
 a few enlightened souls to inform/advise me on the subject of 
 forming a new newsgroup.
          Anyway, I would be very much interested in pushing for
 a group dedicated to the discussion of S ASIAN history(which is
 roughly the region encompassing India,Pakistan,Bangladesh,Sri-Lanka,
 Bhutan, Nepal, Afghanistan and the Maldives). It would be nice if
 the group could be moderated(dont know the procedure for that either).
 We would be discussing different historical periods and perspectives
 in south asian history. While history itself is a political subject,
 it would be nice if uninformed politically motivated half truths as
 we see in the "CULTURE" groups can be excluded by moderation. This 
 is such that the group be dedicated to the discussion of history
 alone. If the group has a goal or objective, it is to enlighten
 ourselves with a better understanding od S ASIAN HISTORY thro mutual
 help.
                       -Mohan
Newsgroups: soc.history
From: vancleef@netcom.com (Henry van Cleef)
Subject: Re: St. Augustine
Organization: Netcom--posted from Andover, Mass.
Date: Wed, 27 Jan 1993 02:09:38 GMT

>> In article <nestabro.727973425@nova> nestabro@nova.gmi.edu (Noel Estabrook) writes:
>>>Anybody out there know the exact dates for St. Augustine?  E-mail
>> 
Since no one has seemed to get a "round tuit" I pulled out the 11th
Britannica vol.2, and on pp.907-910 find the following:
(Aurelius?) Augistinus, born Tagaste (North Africa) 13 Nov. 354; died
Hippo (North Africa) 28 Aug. 430.  That is very little to cull out of
the three pages devoted to him, and if you can find an 11th Britannica,
it is a good presentation of who he was and the path of his life.  

Augustine the man is one of those giants who left a profound mark on
history for centuries.  As a young man, he was both a scholar and a
hell-raiser; after studying in Carthage, he went to Milan, complete with
a "significant other" in modern terms---unmarried, by whom he had a son
with the improbably name of "Adeodatus" (given by god).  He followed the
paths of the Gnostics and Manicheans for a period, but after becoming
dissatisfied with them----and with a dose of Ambrose and John
Chrysostom, was appointed Bishop of Hippo and joined the Christian
Church.  His significant other vanishes at this point, and his son died;
and there is also a dramatic scene of reconciliation with his mother.

Augustinian philosophy became the foundation of Western Christian
thought lasting at least until the crises following translation of
Aristotle into Latin and wide discussion of Aristotelian philosophy in
the 13th century.  

Principal works, all readily available in English translation, include
"Confessions" (i.e., his confession of Christian faith).
"The City of God"---originally an answer to those who felt that
Christianity was responsible for the decline of Rome and allowed the
sack of Rome in 412.
-- 
Hank van Cleef  vancleef@netcom.com vancleef@tmn.com  Andover, Mass.
Unix systems consultant---kernel, device drivers, networking, X11
SysV, BSD, Sun, Ultrix, AIX, SCO. Porting a specialty. 
	     The Union Institute  History of Science
Newsgroups: soc.history
From: stank@cbnewsl.cb.att.com (Stan Krieger)
Subject: Re: Firing Squads
Organization: Summit NJ
Date: Thu, 28 Jan 1993 17:58:58 GMT

>>  Apparently, it is customary for one man on a firing squad
>>to shoot with a blank.
>
>No this is an urban myth...

As already pointed out, this is the case in a civilian firing squad
(Utah).

Also, I believe when NJ switched from the electric chair to lethal
injection, the articles describing the equipment said that there were
two sets of switches and needles (the injection of the chemicals
into the saline solution is done indirectly; the needles are mounted
in a housing and pushed by a mechanical switch that's activated 
electrically), for the doubt factor.

Finally, I don't know reality based this is, but a new twilight zone
episode a number of years ago (the story was a remake of one that
was on Rod Serling's original show) showed that for a hanging, the
trap door was opened electrically and that there were three people
who each pushed a button or threw a switch, but only one was connected
to the trap door.  The gallows used were pretty close to the description
of the gallows in Washington State, so I wonder how accurate the
trapdoor mechanism description was.
-- 
Stan Krieger                 All opinions, advice, or suggestions, even
UNIX System Laboratories     if related to my employment, are my own.
Summit, NJ
smk@usl.com
Newsgroups: soc.history