From: dauber@sgi.com (Jeff Dauber)
Newsgroups: alt.politics.homosexuality
Subject: Re: Adream
Date: 16 Apr 92 15:44:21 GMT
Article-I.D.: fido.jkctapg
Organization: Silicon Graphics, Inc.

In article <1992Apr16.032731.27188@wam.umd.edu> aap@wam.umd.edu (Alberto Adolfo Pinkas) writes:
>In article <jjfe7rk@fido.asd.sgi.com> dauber@sgi.com (Jeff Dauber) writes:
>>In article <1992Apr15.220813.19914@wam.umd.edu> aap@next04wor.wam.umd.edu (Alberto Adolfo Pinkas) writes:
>>>Do not be a pinhead. I did not compared myself to anyone. 
>>
>>Name calling is not nice.  You have already accused the homosexuals here
>>of doing this....
>
>Seems to be the only way to make some people understand.


You have no grounds to accuse anyone of namecalling anymore.  Sorry...

I used to feel sorry for you when people called you names.  Now, the pity
is gone.  You have joined the name calling crowd.  Enjoy.



>>Self parody is not the point.  Steve pointed out that Argentina is backwards
>>when it comes to homosexuals.  Our culture is also backwards regarding 
>>homosexuals, but not as backwards.
>>
>
>Come on FWA, you seem to be more educate than Mr. Dyer.
>How do you know what's the position of Argentinians about homosexuality?


Because I know a large number of homosexuals from Argentina, and I read
a lot of articles written by homosexuals in other parts of the world.

I guarantee that I know more homosexuals from Argentina than you do.

>I posted once an article from The Washington Post, where the President
>of the Argentinian Homosexual Community said that they are better in
>Argentina than you are here.

Yeah... I also know a lot about what they are experiencing.  It does not
sounds better to me.

>>
>>One thing.  We know what it is like to be a homosexual.  We know a lot of
>>gay parents.  We know a lot about the heterocentrism of society.  We know
>>how the homosexuals have been oppressed in the name of Freud.  We have
>>first hand, direct experience about what we speak.
>
>I agree that you have a lot of experience. It does not mean knowledge.


It does mean understanding however.  I understand the life of a homosexual.
I understan what it is like to be a homosexual.  I understand what it
means to have someone's "knowledge" (yes, those are snear quotes) pushed
in my face as "truth" (more snear quotes).  I laugh at your knowledge because
I see how inapplicable it is in the face of reality.  



>Here we go again. I did not said that you do not understand the world 
>of homosexuality. I said that most homosexuals have so incorporated the
>heterosexual/sexist world in their minds, that they cannot separate 
>themselves from the opressor.

You never can seperate yourself from your oppressor.  I have to live in
the world of heterosexuals.  I have no choice.  It does not mean, however,
that I have to abide by their rules.


Perhaps the problem we are having is that no one can figure out the point
which you are trying to make...



>I did never said anything about what is wrong with your lives.
>I have never said that you should not be allowed to adopt children. This is 
>a lie, and I am getting tired of it. 
>I did not present any theory about homosexuality.
>So, stop with the fantasy about what I said or what I did not said.
>Someone said once: If you repeat a lie enough times, it becomes true.
>DOn't do that with me.
>
>>Then perhaps, you will understand our anger.
>>
>Then, perhaps, you will stop putting words in my mouth.


This argument comes up over and over and over again.  "That is not what I
meant".  Alberto, the homosexuals on usenet seem to be getting a common
message from your postings.  Whenever we argue against what we think you
are saying you back away, saying "that is not what I meant."  Perhaps you
should read what you wrote again, and see if what you meant and what you
wrote said the same thing.  Perhaps it is because you are not writing in
your native language (I am making an assumption here), but I think that 
you need to read what you wrote and make sure that you are saying what you
think.

If your words are so unclear that people cannot get your meaning, the blame
is probably with the writer, not the reader.



Jeff
-FWA
Xref: sparky alt.politics.homosexuality:1935 alt.sex:13976