From: rig@eng.umd.edu (Ronald Greenberg)
Subject: Re: Bris
Date: Fri, 21 Aug 92 18:48:44 GMT
Organization: University of Maryland, College Park, College of Engineering

In article <1992Aug20.194130.7542@nynexst.com> schwartz@nynexst.com writes:
>In article 4005@moscom.UUCP, de@moscom.UUCP (David Esan) writes:
>>
>>Now the actual circumcision is necessary, but the party afterwards is really
>>optional.  Since we had had a nice party for each of our boys britot we felt
>>that if we should ever have a girl we should give her a party as well.
>
>Let's distinguish between two things.  A meal after a brit milah is a
>seudat mitzvah, a meal which is either directly commanded or which celebrates
>the observance of certain commandments.  Other seudot mitzvah include
>the three Shabbat meals, and a meal eaten at the conclusion of the
>(in-depth) learning of a book of the Torah or a tractate of the Gemara.
>I would argue that not eating one of these meals is not a severe violation
>of something, but that "optional" is too strong a word to describe them.
>
>OTOH, there are meals such as at a shalom zachor or simchat bat (welcoming
>the birth of a boy or girl respectively).  These are not seudot mitzvah,
>though they have become custom to a  greater or lesser degree
>(depending on one's community).  The shalom zachor is usually held on the
>Shabbat night after the birth, so as to precede the brit milah: the purpose
>is to "greet" the child as he approaches the milah. 
>I don't know if the simchat bat is tied to a particular time.  
>Either meal can be considered "optional" according to the strict halachah, 
>although (need I say it?) some people will look askance at you (who cares?) 
>if you skip one of these meals.  Yes, I'm certain that there are 
>kabbalistic interpretations supporting shalom zachor.  I just wanted to 
>distinguish it from a more definitive seudat mitzvah.

What's OTOH?

Anyway, basically yes, but the question of when a meal is a seudat
mitzvah is somewhat foggy; it came up in a class at my shul.  There is
an interesting source that tries to lay out general criteria.  I've
got it sitting here in front of me, but I'm not good at understanding
such texts by myself, especially not in Rashi script.  (And, of
course, my memory from going through it in the class is somewhat
foggy.)  The text is from the Yam Shel Shlomo.  I believe he's
basically got three criterion any of which can be the basis for a
mitzvah meal: that the occasion is to give thanks to G-d, that it is
to publicize performance of a mitzvah, or that it is to publicize a
miracle.  I believe that he explicitly deals with a shalom zachor type
of occasion and indicates that based on these criteria there could be
validity in deeming it to be a mitzvah meal because of the elements of
thanking G-d and celebrating the "miracle" of birth.  (Remember my
disclaimers: I may have some inaccuracies in my recollections.)
Nonetheless, I believe Shimon's (S. H. Schwartz's) characterization of
the consensus of opinion is basically correct, that a bris is a clear
mitzvah meal, while a shalom zachor is much foggier.  (Perhaps a
simchat bat is even foggier, since it is not discussed explicitly, but
it would seem that it should be entirely analogous to a shalom zachor.
Also I believe there are commentaries that a doubling of the phrase
"shavuah haben" in a related section of Talmud is a misprint or
otherwise is indicative that the discussion applies to a bat
(daughter) as well as a ben (son).)  Due to this fogginess, the
mitzvah-meal status of a celebration may be influenced by what you do
there; including words of torah is a good idea.

For the most part, it is not really a very critical issue whether or
not a meal is a mitzvah meal, but sometimes it's important and it
would be wise to CCHA (consult a competent halachic authority).  For
example, I recently attended a simchat bat in shul on the child's 8th
day, but this was during the three weeks before Tisha B'Av when we do
not generally hold public celebrations.  It was therefore decided to
combine the simchat bat with a siyum.  But this siyum was a bit of a
broadening of the concept as it is usually thought of and as Shimon
defined it above.  It was for the completion of studying a volume on
laws against loshon hora (slander and gossip).

Another place where mitzvah-meal status can have implications is
whether a mourner can be there, but I'm quite unclear about the
details.  I think what a mourner was telling me at this siyum was that
the Rabbi told him he could stay through the meal but that for a bris
on another occasion, he was told he could come for the bris but then
should leave.  (Something may have gotten garbled in the transmission,
but it also seems plausible that there could be some sort of
difference in this regard for a bris and a siyum.)  I've also heard
about mourners going to wedding receptions if they are given some job
to do there.

One question that bothered me during the class I took and for which
there really didn't seem to be a good answer is whether there is some
difference between the meals for a wedding and a bris.  Both should be
mitzvah meals, but there seems to be some difference in attitudes
about them.  For a bris, people are generally careful to not directly
invite an individual to attend, because there is a notion that if
you're invited you have to go.  But for a wedding, nobody seems to
have any compunctions about sending out formal invitations to people.
And certainly people don't always go when invited, though it's usually
because it's in another city or something that generally seems to
people like a "good" reason.  But I'm wondering what is really the
story here halachically.

By the way, the discussion of the topics above came up as background
in the class I was attending, the real question being to investigate
the basis or lack thereof for the practice of Bat Mitzvah.  The
sources on the latter subject are mixed.  Some are against it for such
reasons as "well nobody did this in the old days" and this is an
emulation of Christian or Reform practices.  Others are for it based
on such reasons as the basis for Bar Mitzvah and straightforward
analogy, or notions that in our current society young women have a
need that did not previously exist for this type of ceremony as a
positive Jewish/educational experience.  My impression is that at this
point, Bat Mitzvah is pretty widely accepted in modern Orthodox
communities, while in more black Hat communities it may still be
eschewed.

This message is already long, so I'll send it, but then I'll try to
get typed into here the pamphlet that was handed out at the simchat
bat I mentioned.
-- 

Ronald I. Greenberg	(Ron)		rig@eng.umd.edu