HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: pally@mikejag.wimsey.bc.ca (Pally Hoffstein)
Subject: Re: 10 Best Space Operas (Written / Film)
Organization: mikejag (mike) is a private system in Vancouver, BC, Canada
Date: Mon, 27 Jul 1992 05:29:21 GMT

In article <1992Jul26.175045.22709@usenet.ins.cwru.edu> at674@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Pete Nofel) writes:
>
>In the Re: space opera -- definition thread someone suggested a
>list of the 10 best. Here's an off-the-cuff contribution in no
>particular ranking:
>
>   Written                        
>
>The Mote in God's Eye          
>Skylark of Space             
>Footfall                     
>The Black Star Passes        
>Forever War
>The last 0.25 of Earth
>  (this doesn't really count)
>Invaders from the Infinite
>(and any other John W. Campbell
> super-science epic)
>

I'm afraid this list doesn't contain what I consider to be the very best of
Space Opera novels. "The Stars My Destination" by Alfred Bester, also known as
"Tiger, Tiger". While much of this story takes place on earth there are so
many different science fiction elements packed into an extremely fast paced
but superbly written story that it qualifies. It goes over the top and
gets away with it. I highly recommend the book, exciting, innovative and IMHO;
brilliant.
Another superb space opera is Delaney's Nova. Maybe a little slow for a space
opera but it really captures the atmosphere associated with them.

pally hoffstein
vancouver, canada
-- 
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
I will stare into the sun until it's light doesn't blind me,
I will walk into the fire until it's heat doesn't burn me,
And I will feed the fire.		  		Sarah McLachlan
From: G.Jackson@bradford.ac.uk (G JACKSON)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
Subject: Re: On-line Hugos
Date: 23 Jul 92 11:42:06 GMT
Organization: University of Bradford, UK
Originator: s7394@mail

In article <1992Jul10.041001.29413@cco.caltech.edu> ojvind@renoir.cns.caltech.edu (Ojvind Bernander) writes:
>So now we can read all the short stories.  Great!
>Now,  I often get a bit bored here at my terminal
>and would love to read the novelettes, too.   And
>why stop at 17,500 words?
>
>-- Ojvind


  Can someone please tell me a) where i can access the stories?
                             b) how i can get to them please?

       Sorry if these are silly questions, but i'm just learning to find
   my way around the net.

    PLEASE E-MAIL ME.     Thanxs.

         Gordon.
From: swf@teradata.com (Stanley Friesen)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
Subject: Re: Restricted breeding (was Re: The Moat around God's Eye)
Date: 23 Jul 92 20:04:41 GMT
Reply-To: swf@tdat.teradata.com (Stanley Friesen)
Organization: NCR Teradata Database Business Unit

In article <1992Jul22.181215.24700@oracle.us.oracle.com> mfriedma@uucp (Michael Friedman) writes:
|
|Stanley, you seem to be unable to distinguish between the following
|two goals.
|
|1.  Don't have kids when we're crowded so that my species doesn't have
|a boom and bust. 
|
|2.  Don't have kids when we're crowded because I can more relibably
|propagate my genes if I wait until we have more room.
|
|Do you understnad the difference between these goals?

Yes, but I maintain that in the long run they amount to the same thing.
To achieve 2 effectively requires or entails achieving 1.

If there is a crash, then *everyones* offspring are at risk, and no
lineage is exempt for elimination, so a population that is prone to
periodic major crashes is bad for *each* *individual*.

[r-strategists get around this by dispursing a significant portion of thier
offspring out of the immediate area, and hopefully out of the range of
the inevitable population crash, that is what makes them "weeds"].
-- 
sarima@teradata.com			(formerly tdatirv!sarima)
  or
Stanley.Friesen@ElSegundoCA.ncr.com
From: D.GEISLER@ACAD.SUFFOLK.EDU
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
Subject: Great SF Shorts
Date: 21 Jul 92 16:03:56 GMT

I will be teaching a course in the Fall semester on science fiction,
and I would like some help in choosing good examples of short fiction
to have my students read.

Ideally, such short fiction should be "science" fictional in nature;
that is, it should not be from the fantasy end of the genre.  It can,
however, be any sort of short story or brief novella from the science-
oriented focus of speculative fiction.

If you have suggestions or ideas, please forward them to me at:
d.geisler@acad.suffolk.edu or (of course) to sf-lovers.  Although all
of us have that "I remember a story about ___, but I don't know the
author or the title" feeling, please don't email me with those.  If
you want to discuss them, the sf-lovers forum makes more sense, since
other people might know the author or the title.

It would also be helpful if you could remember a source (anthology,
magazine, etc.) so I can find them!

Much thanks,
Deb Geisler
"Academe_is_the real world; all else is bad fantasy."
d.geisler@acad.suffolk.edu
From: al@calsci.UUCP (Al Petterson)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
Subject: Re: Gerrold
Date: 26 Jul 92 20:00:37 GMT
Reply-To: al%calsci@gvgpsa.gvg.tek.com (Al Petterson)
Followup-To: rec.arts.sf.written
Organization: California Scientific Software
News-Software: FSUUCP 1.1 Release 5


In article <1992Jul24.140932.1@us.oracle.com> cracicot@us.oracle.com writes:
>
>Does anybody know when/if the final book of the
>Rage For Revenge / Matter for Men / Day for Damnation
>series will be published.

Book IV is to be _A_Season_For_Slaughter_ and Book V is to be
_A_Time_For_Treason_.

Book IV will be published in Spring 1990.  Gerrold said so.  :-) In other
words, I have no f***ing idea.  Wish I did.

Al Petterson (al%calsci@gvgpsa.gvg.tek.com)
---
1-800-772-VOTE, leave your name and address, and read the booklet that comes
in the mail.  If you disagree with him, don't vote for him.  But know what
he says before you decide.
From: moriarty@tc.fluke.COM (Jeff Meyer)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
Subject: Question on next (if any) Alvin Maker book by O.S. Card
Keywords: Orson Scott Card Alvin Maker
Date: 31 Jul 92 16:57:30 GMT
Organization: The John Fluke Mfg. Co.  /a.k.a. The Gizmonics Institute/

Fast question for those of you in the know: has there been a new book
released in Orson Scott Card's "Chronicles of Alvin Maker" series since the
third book, PRENTICE ALVIN?

If you'd care to e-mail me a reply, I'd be happy to summarize for the net in
a week.  (Thus avoiding 30 "Yes" or "No" postings.)  Thanks in advance...

                           "And it's really beautiful to see a man working on
                            his puppet, if you haven't seen that."

                                           -- Mike Nelson
---
                                        Moriarty, aka Jeff Meyer
INTERNET:     moriarty@tc.fluke.COM
Manual UUCP:  {uunet, uw-beaver, sun, microsoft}!fluke!moriarty
CREDO:        You gotta be Cruel to be Kind...
                 **>> Keep circulating the tapes <<**
From: swf@teradata.com (Stanley Friesen)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
Subject: Re: "Understand" by Ted Chiang
Date: 28 Jul 92 01:23:13 GMT
Reply-To: swf@tdat.teradata.com (Stanley Friesen)
Organization: NCR Teradata Database Business Unit

In article <1992Jul27.192247.2124@clarinet.com> brad@clarinet.com (Brad Templeton) writes:
|In article <1992Jul27.101158.20390@neptune.inf.ethz.ch> qvortrup@inf.ethz.ch (Michael Qvortrup) writes:
|>Now, why did I keep thinking of small mice running maces and
|>flowers floating on the water while reading this story?
|
|Yeah, I got that at first, too, however he took to the story in quite a
|different direction after those initial similarities.   Their endings
|are vastly different.

By any chance, was the ending less pessimistic?

(As good as "Flowers ..." is, it is not the sort of book I would read
very often).


-- 
sarima@teradata.com			(formerly tdatirv!sarima)
  or
Stanley.Friesen@ElSegundoCA.ncr.com
From: CDOMS@VAX1.UMKC.EDU
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
Subject: Re: Sharon McCrumb: Zombies of the Gene Pool
Date: 27 Jul 92 21:44:00 GMT

For those of you, who have read this, did you find the major historical
blunder she made in this book?

The time capsule which contains items from 1954, also contained a movie
poster of "Forbidden Planet", a movie which came out in 1956.  After
checking her facts on where World Science Fiction convention was held
in 54' and getting some other facts correct, you would have thought
she would have checked the date on one of SF movie classic.

Carol Doms
cdoms@umkcvax1
cdoms@vax1.umkc.edi
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
From: quasar@ctt.bellcore.com (Laurence R. Brothers)
Subject: New Book -- Cherryh: Chanur's Legacy
Organization: Bellcore
Date: 29 Jul 92 10:37:05


I just finished reading C. J. Cherryh's new book "Chanur's Legacy",
which is pretty much "Chanur: The Next Generation" -- it follows Hilfy
Chanur, captain of the titled ship, niece, as you may recall of
Pyanfar Chanur, heroine of the first series.

This is a very fun book to read. As for some reason often seems to be
the case, some authors do a much better job at defining "alien"
personalities than human ones, and IMHO, this is true of Cherryh.
Since the only human in the book appears solely in a fantasy sequence,
this makes the book an overall success... (!)

In Chanur's Legacy, there is much more attention paid to the Stsho,
who formerly appeared to be merely underpowered Pierson's Puppeteers.
Cherryh obviously had a lot of fun making the Stsho and the Kif the
Good Guys this time, though the Mahendo'sat villain is also a very
amusing character.

I wonder though, if anyone finds Cherryh's attribution of a sort of
Pacific Rim pidgin dialect to the Mahendo'sat offensive? Perhaps for
anonymous lower class Mahendo'sat it's OK, but it's hard to believe
that educated members of a powerful starfaring culture would all talk
like some Hollywood image of a Hong Kong street vendor. Of course, it
makes it easy to tell who's talking when you see the pidgin in print
in the middle of a bunch of dialogue.

As usual, (and this is one thing I find very annoying about Cherryh),
the lead male protagonist is very weak and vacillating, but he is
portrayed as developing over the book, and is not so bad, I suppose,
as the male protagonist in Cyteen, or so bad as Tully in the first
Chanur series, for that matter.

The book comes to a satisfactory conclusion, but is also evidently
part of a continuing series of "Next Generation" Chanur books. It's
one of the most entertaining new books I've read recently, so you
should all go out and buy it, if only to support one of the few female
authors of traditional space opera around at the moment. Oh yeah, the
cover is (thankfully) by Whelan, not by David Cherry....



--
	         Laurence R. Brothers (quasar@bellcore.com)
      Bellcore -- Computer Technology Transfer -- Knowledge-Based Systems
       "There is no memory with less satisfaction in it than the memory
            of some temptation we resisted." -- James Branch Cabell
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
From: yarvin@highlite.uucp (Curtis Yarvin)
Subject: Re: BOOKS BY DAVID EDDINGS
Organization: Gotham Communications Research
Date: Wed, 29 Jul 1992 06:18:41 GMT

In article <1992Jul27.022925.866@galileo.cc.rochester.edu> kevin@sherman.pas.rochester.edu (kevin mcfadden) writes:
>>A laconic response; but (as would have been so anyway) I'm not convinced.
>>
>>I'm puzzled most by your defense of Tolkien; he has his merits, but few
>>would place characterization among them.  Tolkien's characters have few
>>human drives; where he actually tries to humanize them (the hobbits,
>>Boromir), the result is plastic and unreal, or simply unconvincing.  For
>>the most part they're thin and melodramatic, so cardboard as to inflate
>>the term.  Would you really call Aragorn, Gandalf, Theoden, Saruman, even
>>Legolas and Gimli, credible and well-filled characters?
>
>	I would say that Theoden, Aragorn, and Saruman were some of the 
>characters that actually were somewhat developed.

Our definitions of "developed" must vary.  Tolkien does give a few
of his characters some nominal complexity, but I don't find any
of them credible.  

Can you identify with, for example, Aragorn?  Can you put yourself
in his place, and feel the human drives that motivate him?  Dunno
about you, but I sure can't.  Aragorn isn't biologically human -
he's high-fantasy man.  He doesn't want power, money, sex, respect,
fast cars or fine wine; he wants to regain the lost kingdoms of his
forefathers and bring glorious harmony to all Middle-Earth, etc, etc
- and precious little else.  If this ain't one-dimensional I haven't
a clue what is.

As I said before, this is entirely par-for-the-course in high
fantasy; real characters would only muck up the tale.  And that's
why you can't condemn Eddings for his mediocre characterization.

In fact, I think one reason I loathe Eddings so much is that, unlike
Tolkien, he actually tries to develop his characters.  The passing
success he achieves doesn't fit in the high-fantasy genre he's imitating,
and breaks the spell that Tolkien et al are so successful with.

>>I've always viewed Tolkien's great talent as a natural style which turned
>>weak characters and simple worlds into advantages: few have surpassed him
>		     ^^^^^^
>
>Are you trying to start one of the world's worst flame war?  His world
>was anything but simple.

Oh, the _languages_ were bloody complex; overkill, of course, but
what do you expect of a linguist?

As for the rest of it, bollocks.  Bollocks, bollocks, and bollocks.
Middle-Earth is divided very clearly into Good Guys and Bad Guys,
neither of whom have anything even approaching a real human society;
the most complex country in the book is Rohan, and that sure ain't
saying much.  Even Eddings is tighter-fisted with the stereotypes.

c
From: matt@physics2.berkeley.edu (Matt Austern)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
Subject: Re: Gibson's _agrippa_: Not A Hoax
Date: 21 Jul 92 21:32:34 GMT
	<1992Jul21.141740.5107@infoserver.th-darmstadt.de>
	<1992Jul21.184809.24166@clarinet.com>
Reply-To: matt@physics.berkeley.edu
Organization: Lawrence Berkeley Laboratory (Theoretical Physics Group)
NNTP-Posting-Host: physics2.berkeley.edu
In-reply-to: brad@clarinet.com's message of Tue, 21 Jul 1992 18:48:09 GMT

In article <1992Jul21.184809.24166@clarinet.com> brad@clarinet.com (Brad Templeton) writes:

> Cyberpunk, as it is called today, came from the marriage of cyberspace
> and dystopianism.

More a menage a trois than a marriage: the Chandleresque prose style
is also an important element.  _Shockwave Rider_ has both dystopianism
and something that might be called cyberspace (as, to some extent,
does _Nova_), but I wouldn't call either book cyberpunk.  
--
Matthew Austern              I dreamt I was being followed by a roving band of
(510) 644-2618               of young Republicans, all wearing the same suit,
matt@physics.berkeley.edu    taunting me and shouting, "Politically correct
austern@theorm.lbl.gov       multiculturist scum!"... They were going to make
austern@lbl.bitnet	     me kiss Jesse Helms's picture when I woke up.
From: kaveh@ms.uky.edu (Kaveh Baharestan)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
Subject: Re: Tad Williams
Keywords: Tad Williams
Date: 25 Jul 92 16:34:55 GMT
Organization: University Of Kentucky, Dept. of Math Sciences

bkpipa@eos.ncsu.edu (BRIAN KEITH PIPA) writes:


>Please forgive me if this is the wrong group
>to post this to, but it seems like a likely place.


>2 questions:

>	1) What is the name of the third book in the trilogy, and is
>		it out yet? (I know, technically that's 2 questions)

The third book was to be called _TO GREEN ANGEL TOWER_.  I say "was"
because Tad checked into an assylum, breaking his contact deadline with
Tor, who then sold the rights to the unfinished manuscript to DelRey,
who is now having no less than Piers Anthony revamp the parts that have
been written and finish the rest.

Now, you're wondering what all this has to do with the title, right?

Well, as we all know, Piers used prepositional phrases for the titles
of all of his "Incarnations" series (e.g. _On_A_Pale_Horse_, _Bearing
_An_Hourglass_, ...  you get the picture).

Well Peirs is just too original to use the same titling scheme for a
second series.  So my guess is that he'll call it something like:

   _Green_Angle_Tower_
   _The_Two_Towers_
   _Ice_Serpent,_Ice_Servant_

    or my favorite:

   _Autobiography_Of_A_Troll_
   

>	2) Why can't he end each book at a point that is not right
>	 	in the middle of a scene (I think TDC ended right in
>		the middle of a battle with an ice dragon)?

I think he is not ending the book in the middle, but ending them at
major turning points in Seoman's life.

And, No. the book is not out yet.

>Please e-mail replies to me,
>as I don't read the news that often.

>Thanks
>-- 
>------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>   bkpipa@eos.ncsu.edu         |      He is one of those people who          |
>   North Carolina State        |        would be greatly improved by         |
>   University - Raleigh        |          death. - H.H. Munro 1870 -1916     |
>------------------------------------------------------------------------------

-- 
/-  Kaveh Baharestan                               -==================|>=====o\
|"Though your lips are tempting, They're the wrong lips, They're not her lips |
| but they're such tempting lips That if some night you're free, Dear...      |
\______________________________________ -Cole Porter__________________________/
From: mcintyre@CPAC.WASHINGTON.EDU (Vonda McIntyre)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
Subject: Kenneth Flint
Date: 24 Jul 92 09:56:26 GMT


 
Message forwarded from Janna Silverstein, one of the Bantam 
senior editors: 
 
 >Ken Flint's new novel is called LEGENDS REBORN, about a modern Donald
 >Trump-like mogul finding himself under the spell of a sidhe after a magical
 >encounter in Ireland.  When the mogul comes back to the States, he discovers
 >she's followed him back to New York, and that she's been followed by some
 >stalwarts convinced that she didn't come of her own free will, but was
 >kidnapped.  From there it's ancient Celtic magic versus modern technology. 
 >This one's adventure, strictly for fun.
 
 >                        Janna Silverstein
From: tdober@llnl.gov
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
Subject: Re: Brain size (was Re: the "cause" of homosexuality)
Date: 24 Jul 92 02:32:18 GMT
Organization: LLNL

In article <BruJxx.Cqo@watdragon.waterloo.edu>, jdnicoll@watyew.uwaterloo.ca
(James Davis Nicoll) writes:

[much stuff deleted]

> I still get chills thinking about Ford having access to several
> thousand nuclear weapons.

Ford, hell; what about *Reagan*??! I get retroactive shivers severe
enough to cause several major earthquakes at *that* thought!


> 							James Nicoll


TDO
--
#include StdDisclaimer.h

Endure pain, find joy, and make your own meaning, because the universe certainly
isn't going to supply it. Always be a moving target. Live. Live. Live. -- Lois
McMaster Bujold, _Barrayar_
From: matt@physics2.berkeley.edu (Matt Austern)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
Subject: Re: Good Book Covers(New US Pliocene Exile Cover)
Date: 26 Jul 92 23:10:46
Organization: Lawrence Berkeley Laboratory (Theoretical Physics Group)
Reply-To: matt@physics.berkeley.edu
NNTP-Posting-Host: physics2.berkeley.edu
In-reply-to: rod@cats.ucsc.edu's message of 25 Jul 1992 06:33:38 GMT

In article <14qsk2INNpgt@darkstar.UCSC.EDU> rod@cats.ucsc.edu (Rodrick Su) writes:

> 	With respect to all the discussion on the accuracy of book
> cover, I thought that the new covers to the Pliocene Exile were one of
> the better example of painter reading the books prior to painting,
> especially for the cover of Nonborn King and The Adversary.

Well, if we're talking about *good* book covers, I'd like to cast my
vote for the old covers on the American paperback edition of the Lord
of the Rings---the Tolkien watercolors.  The cover on Return of the
King, in particular, is spectacularly gloomy and oppressive.
--
Matthew Austern              I dreamt I was being followed by a roving band of
(510) 644-2618               of young Republicans, all wearing the same suit,
matt@physics.berkeley.edu    taunting me and shouting, "Politically correct
austern@theorm.lbl.gov       multiculturist scum!"... They were going to make
austern@lbl.bitnet	     me kiss Jesse Helms's picture when I woke up.
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
From: comrade@uniwa.uwa.edu.au (Peter Cooper)
Subject: Re: Iain Banks
Organization: University of Western Australia
Date: Thu, 30 Jul 1992 03:58:49 GMT

eesshlgb@gdr.bath.ac.uk (S H L G Bisson) writes:
>and Iain does have something of a miscehevious sense of what can loosely be
>described as "humour".

>His slipstream work is well worth digging out, especially _Espedair_Street_
>and _The_Crow_Road_. Avoid _Canal_Dreams_, it reads like an obligation...

But I *really* liked the protagonist in _Canal_Dreams_, as her
personality always offered surprises, but was always consistent. The
book itself was a "fantasy that was exceptionally mundane" (a coworker
was also really impressed) and in places very reminiscent of one of
those South American magic-realist writers.

Peter
-- 
email:  comrade@uniwa.uwa.edu.au   snail:  Peter Cooper, box 22
fax:    +61 9 380 1041                     Guild of Undergraduates
phone:  +61 9 380 3929                     University of Western Australia
"It was the banana that did it!" - Julia Marley
From: seanodon@gn.ecn.purdue.edu (Aragorn)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
Subject: Re: Errors in Covers (was Re: Hyperion covers)
Date: 23 Jul 92 16:13:52 GMT
Organization: Purdue University Engineering Computer Network

In article <rdippold.711835806@cancun> rdippold@cancun.qualcomm.com (Ron Dippold) writes:
 
>Has anyone ever caught Michael Whelan in a cover error?  It seems like
>he actually reads the book, as the covers are filled with details from
>the books, but it can happen to anyone...
>-- 
>Faith is not reason's labor, but repose. -- Young

I have a minor error, but an error nonetheless.  On Heinlein's _Friday_,
he pictures Friday as a very shapely athletic woman with unkempt hair,
which is correct.  What he got wrong is that she had somewhat dark skin
(about equivilant to American Indian) but he drew her with very white
skin.  A minor detail, but there anyway.

Aragorn
-- 
***seanodon@ecn.purdue.edu***********************************************
*  Man-in-Black: "You mean you'll put down your rock and I'll put 	*
*		  down my sword, and we'll try to kill each other 	*
*		  like civilized people."	_The Princess Bride_	*
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
From: mab@wdl39.wdl.loral.com (Mark A Biggar)
Subject: Re: The Moat around God's Eye
Organization: Loral Western Development Labs
Date: Wed, 29 Jul 1992 17:31:00 GMT

In article <Bs4DHp.2t8@xcluud.sccsi.com> dkl@xcluud.sccsi.com (David Karl Leikam) writes:
>In article <TOMW.92Jul24225916@orac.esd.sgi.com> tomw@esd.sgi.com writes:
>>> Actually, this idea of hiding out in the Oort cloud ....
>>> Any suggestions as to why it hasn't happened?
>>I see two problems:
>>1) All the other masters blow him away when they figure out what he's up
>>   to.  The want to protect their own genetic heritage, no?
>>2) The mediators call 'Crazy Eddie' on him, and turn him in before he
>>   even gets off the planet.
>  Aww, nobody's seen the obvious, yet??
>  3) It takes a cooperative effort, and no other master will help one of
>their number to do so; or
>  4)One master can do it on his own. So can another. And another, and...

All of these problem also relate to the genreation ship idea.

--
Mark Biggar
mab@wdl1.wdl.loral.com

Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written