HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: PA142548@utkvm1.utk.edu (T. Archer)
Subject: Multiple titles 
Organization: University of Tennessee Division of Continuing Education
Date: Tue, 1 Sep 1992 13:37:38 GMT

In article <1992Aug31.181137.14182@watson.ibm.com> mittle@watson.ibm.com (Josh Mittleman) writes:
>From: mittle@watson.ibm.com (Josh Mittleman)
>Subject: Multiple titles (was Edward Zifran of Gendy)
>Date: Mon, 31 Aug 1992 18:11:37 GMT
>Greetings from Arval!
>
>At the risk of sounding unbearably stuffy, I'd like to point out that
>stringing multiple titles before a name...
>
>> Viscount Viscount Viscount Viscount Sir Sir Master Master Edward, 
>
>...is an incorrect practice, for two reasons.  First, they didn't do that
>in period.  A knight who had been admitted into several orders of
>knighthood was not "Sir Sir Sir Peter".  

When we do that around here, it's generally a joke.  But our peers tend to 
take themselves less seriously than others I've enountered.  Our current 
prince, out of respect and appreciation, is called Prince Lord Duke Sir John 
the BearKiller, He of the Incredibly Dangerous Stick.

Alternatively, there is Lord Charles.  Charles is active in service to the 
Barony, and was awarded an AoA a number of years ago by the crown.  Two 
years ago, at court, his disarmed himself before approaching the throne.  (
It's an old sight gag, but a good one.  He carries more steel than an M1 
Abrams tank.)  Anyway, the Crown to this to mean that he did NOT have an 
AoA, and, KNOWING that he was active in service, awarded him one on the 
spot.  We had no small amount of amusement over that, locally.  

"Lord, lord!  Charles, when are you going to get packed to leave."  Cheap 
laughs.

Well, time rolled on, kinda like this article, and Charles performed a 
service for the Crown at War.  (Dunno which one...)  When the Crown 
expressed thanks, informally, Charles smiled and said, "It's a shame you can'
t give me another AoA for it."

Do not tell a king what he can't do.

You guessed it.  At the next Crown Court, Lord Lord Charles became

Lord Lord Lord Charles

OR

Lord ^ 3 Charles

OR  (My personal Favorite)

Lord Charles, the Triply Redundant


On a more serious note, I was under the impression that Custom allowed one 
to "enforce" up to TWO titles, and to call oneself, for example, "Master Sir 
M______."



>The correct usage is one title at a time, as appropriate.
>
>===========================================================================
>Arval Benicoeur                                       mittle@watson.ibm.com
>
>
>
>
>===========================================================================
>Arval Benicoeur                                       mittle@watson.ibm.com
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
From: goldschm@ux1.cso.uiuc.edu (Paul Goldschmidt)
Subject: SCA in Russia?
Organization: University of Illinois at Urbana
Date: Mon, 31 Aug 1992 17:13:04 GMT

While I was at the War, I heard a number of rumors of a growing SCA
interest in the CIS.  My sources ranged from the Drachenwald 
Exchequer to King Ruslan and basically summarized, this is what
I have heard:

At some time in the recent past, someone in St Petersburg (Russia,
not FL!) wrote or contacted someone in Nordmark for information.

Now, here are where the stories get wild:

There may be a plan for an incipient group in St Pete.  It may
or may not have a HUGE interest (I heard estimates as high as
150 wannabees).  There may also be interest in Moscow and other
major cities.

Now, the facts:

There are no official papers flying around.  Russian laws would greatly
complicate any attempt to form a group there (ask anyone who has tried to
start a business in Russia for the details).  No one from Drachenwald
seems to have any idea where this interest is.

My interest:

I am mundanely heavily connected with Russia.  I study the country and
therefore make regular trips.  My mundane girlfriend is a Russian
nation (living in St Pete) who is VERY interested in joining the SCA.
If ANYONE has real information about SCA folks in St Pete, I would
like to know addresses and phone numbers so I can pass them on to my
lady.  I am also interested in general information.

As well:

We might find this an unusual new thread for discussion.  How will the
SCA react to groups forming in formerly communist countries?  Russia
presents some particular difficulties.  Until Jan 1 (at the very earliest)
travel remains very restricted, so that it is difficult for Russians to
Aarnimetsa (Finland).  Even if they were ALLOWED to travel, few can afford
to go.  The Ruble is (theoretically) covertible, but at rates that make
our event costs (and the travel expenses) prohibitive.  My girlfriend,
for instance, earns about $14 a month (which includes child support
for her son).

Thoughts?

--  Paul Wickenden of Thanet
    Wurm Wald, Middle Kingdom

:q
ZZ
:x

 

 

 
     
 
 
A
 
A
A
A
A
A
A
A
A
A
A
A
A
 


D
D
 
D
D
D
D
      
C

D
D
D
D
D
D
C
C
C
C
C
C
C
C
C

C
D
D
D
D
D
even travel to Arnimetsa
Organization: Penn State University
Date: Fri, 28 Aug 1992 08:55:22 EDT
From: Therion <HZS@psuvm.psu.edu>
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: A new listserve

I received the following new listserve announcement that may be of interest to
some folks (even if it's early period :)

>CLASSICS Announcement
>
>CLASSICS@uwavm.u.washington.edu on internet
>CLASSICS@UWAVM on bitnet
>
>An unmoderated list for discussing ancient Greek and Latin subjects.
>This list is open to everyone interested in Classics, and prospective
>members are warmly welcomed.  The discussions assume a background in
>ancient Greek and/or Latin.  The CLASSICS list is neither run by nor
>directly affiliated with the University of Washington Classics
>Department.
>
>All request to be added to this list should be sent to listserv@uwavm.bitnet
>or listserv@uwavm.u.washington.edu with the one-line message:
>
>        SUBSCRIBE CLASSICS your-full-name
>
>To unsubscribe, send:  UNSUBSCRIBE CLASSICS
>
>
>Coordinator:  Linda Wright <lwright@u.washington.edu>
From: Joe.Bethancourt@f4229.n124.z1.fidonet.org (Joe Bethancourt)
Sender: FredGate@ocitor.fidonet
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Drachenwald
Date: Tue, 25 Aug 1992 00:38:14

re: Drachenwald becoming a Kingdom, and problems thereof....

(Sorry I can't quote back...my mailer deleted the messages when I wasn't
paying attention (BAD golem! BAD, NAUGHTY golem!), but I had a few thoughts
anyway....

Our situation here in Atenveldt, back when we became a Kingdom, could be
considered very similar to Drachenwald's.....we went from the Colorado
River (the Western border of Arizona (where all the officers and peers
seemed to be) all the way across the southern half of the USA to the
Atlantic Ocean (thereby giving rise to remarks about "Manifest Destiny"
directed at Southern California...heheheh!).

Needless to say, this meant we could -not- govern the Kingdom effectively as 
a centralized government....so we simply let the various "areas," (that 
turned out to be Meridies, Ansteorra, the Outlands and the Sun) pretty much 
have their heads and go their own ways, within the limits of Corpora and such 
other rules like armor standards and such. 

This worked out very well, as a rivalry grew up......and we got 4 Kingdoms 
out of the deal!

Even now, with Atenveldt VERY much smaller, the distances of travel and the
costs are prohibitive.....8 plus hours from Atenveldt/SunDragon/Twin Moons
(the Tri-Barony area in Phoenix) to Loch Salann in Salt Lake City, with air
fare between the two running an average of $350 (about 4-5 times air fare
between Phoenix and Los Angeles....) and thus, not a lot of real personal
interchange occurrs between Artemesia and the Sun (the two Principalities).
The Outlands has a similar problem, as does Ansteorra....

But we live with it, and work with it...somehow...just like we did when we
(damn near) went from sea to sea. If Drachenwald takes their separations as
-opportunities- and not as -problems,- you can build a Kingdom that we all
can be proud of. Let your groups have as much free-play as possible, building
their own unique styles and traditions....you just might see more than one
Kingdom come out the other end.

                                                        -Ioseph of Locksley
                                                         Grumpy Person

... DREAM.SYS not found: Loading HORDE.COM
___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.10

 * Origin: Herald's Point * Steppes/Ansteorra * 214-699-0057 (1:124/4229)
From: fuller@athena.cs.uga.edu (James P. H. Fuller)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: Chain Mail
Date: 1 Sep 92 13:51:43 GMT
Organization: University of Georgia, Athens

ca855@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Robert Allen Coody) writes:

>Greetings Rialto and the known world. I am seeking a source of rings
>for the production of chain mail, I am not in the mood for therapy
>projects and if the rings are already made, I hope to avoid the rocking
>and drooling effects of wire twisting.

     I'm about 3/4ths through a mid-thigh length mail shirt and, having
made one of the simple crank arrangements of which descriptions abound in
SCA sources I can tell you that actually twisting the "screen door springs"
is the quickest and least laborious part of the job.  Winding a handful
of rolls takes a few minutes; actually clipping them and knitting them
together takes up the next several days (spare time, of course.)  I have
hopes of finishing by the time cool fall fighting weather (or anyhow what
passes for cool fall weather in Meridies) returns.  Good luck.

                                               -- Geoffrey



| James P. H. Fuller, Research Coordinator     Soil/Water Biology Laboratory |
|                                              Institute of Ecology          |
| work: fuller@athena.cs.uga.edu               University of Georgia         |
| home: (crom2 rejoins the bitstream one day)  Athens, GA U.S.A.             |
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
From: whheydt@pbhya.PacBell.COM (Wilson Heydt)
Subject: Re:  Pennsic Land Allocation
Organization: Pacific * Bell, San Ramon, CA
Date: Wed, 26 Aug 1992 18:39:55 GMT

Perhaps it's time to drag out my old suggestion about how to allocate
land at Pennsic . . .

	Divide it in half.  Allocate each half to the King of one
	of the belligerants.  Let each King divide it among his
	allies and other forces.

Think of the possibilities--the quality and size of your campsite
could depend on your 'worth' to your King, in terms of war.  Bargain
for a better site by playing one King off against the other in a
bidding war for your services.  Tick off your feudal lord and find
yourself camping in a bog!  Fight with ferocity comparable to the
quality or size of the space you get!  (Sorry Your Majesty--we're
crammed in so tight that nobody could sleep . . .  Perhaps with more
space next year, we'll be able to fight harder . . .)

Allocate land the *Feudal* way!

[Yeah . . .  I know . . .  There're problems with this scheme too.
But it would be fun to try it . . .]

	--Hal

        Hal Ravn, Province of the Mists, West Kingdom
        Wilson H. Heydt, Jr.,  Albany, CA 94706,  510/524-8321 (home)
-- 
Hal Heydt                    |    "Boycott Time-Warner"
Analyst, Pacific*Bell        |         --J. Danforth Quayle
510-823-5447                 |    "... kill all the lawyers."
whheydt@pbhya.PacBell.COM    |         --William Shakespeare
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
From: U254@sysm.acs.virginia.EDU
Subject: bunny round and other wierd w
Organization: The Internet
Date: Tue, 1 Sep 1992 17:47:00 GMT


Unto the good folk of the Rialto from Landon of Wulfkeep, greetings!

   Dale Gee <dale@ais.org> comments:

>In the beggars guild we have the "flying grovel".

   Many years ago here in Atlantia (Isenfir, or perhaps while he
was still in Windmaster's Hill), Lord Jacques Martel de Normand
perfected "Jacques the Jovial's Fabulous Flying Grovel".  I wonder
if there is any connection?      :-)  :-)

Yours in service --

   Landon of Wulfkeep                 Landon Falls
   Isenfir, Atlantia                  Charlottesville, Virginia, USA
From: cozzlab@garnet.berkeley.edu ()
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Late Night Noises (was Pennsic Land Allotment)
Date: 1 Sep 1992 18:58:07 GMT
Organization: University of California, Berkeley
NNTP-Posting-Host: garnet.berkeley.edu

Speaking as an early-to-bed type* who successfully camped across the
road from the Calontir Royal Pavilion this Pennsic....

I could not have done it without earplugs.  They make _good_ earplugs
nowadays.  I can't remember any brand names--there is more than one
manufacturer.  Doesn't matter.  I am talking about the kind that are
made of little cylinders of plastic foam.  You take them and roll 'em
between your fingers until they are squished into little thin slivers.
Stick one into each ear.  Crawl into bed (well, bag).  Over the next
30 seconds or so the foam will re-expand to fit the shape of your ear.
Now the happy revelers in the next tent, the drums and zils across the
path, all sound as if they were five or six blocks away.  Sleep ad
libitum.  Let's hear it (sotto voce) for earplugs.

------------
*I generally go to bed with the sun and rise with it too.  Is that period,
or what?


Dorothea of Caer-Myrddin                               Dorothy J. Heydt
Mists/Mists/West                                              Albany CA
Argent, a cross forme'e sable

Disclaimer: This is the Cozzarelli Lab's account, not mine--but I don't
think anybody else ever reads it.
From: Chaz.Butler@f120.n109.z1.fidonet.org (Chaz Butler)
Sender: Uucp@blkcat.UUCP
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: SCA-related sign language
Date: Tue, 25 Aug 1992 18:30:34 -0500

Sign Language Users of the SCA

A loose convocation of Sign Language Users was called at Pennsic War this just
past.  After some discussion a compendium of Signs for the Current Middle Ages
is being compiled.  If any are interested in a hard copy and description of the
following signs, please contact Charles Butler/medievally known as Cadwan
Gwydion Galwiddoe at: 9200 Glenville Road, Silver Spring, MD 20901

Signs for the 12 /13 Kingdoms.

1)  East = ASL "e" to the right.
2)  West = ASL "w" to the left.
3)  Middle = Sign ASL middle.
4)  Ansteorra = Sun burst rising from below capped by a star. (from its shield)
5)  Attenveldt = Sunshine on a smiling face (the Sun in Glory) 6)  Outlands =
ASL a dear leaping
7)  An Tir = Mane + claw extended forward (A lion rampant)
8)  Caid = a C with the dominant hand with two crescents above (from its
shield)
9)  Atlantia = A + ocean waves
10) Trimaris = 3 + ocean waves
11) Meridies = M + 3 stars above
12) Calontir = a cross + decorations
13) Drachenwald = Dragon + a forest

(For the most part we tried to follow the heraldic design of the shields of the
Kingdoms except where the signs were directionals.)

We also have signs for Duke, Baron, Knight, Master, MA, MS, MOAS, Laurel, and
Pelican, as well as the standard ASL and Danish Sign Language King, Queen,
Prince, and Princess.

We will be staying in touch with the heralds offices of the Known World as an
order of Silent Heralds (the Caid-ian term).


Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
From: tbarnes@silver.ucs.indiana.edu (thomas wrentmore barnes)
Subject: Re: Great diesel beasts at Pennsic
Organization: Indiana University
Date: Fri, 4 Sep 1992 01:01:50 GMT

In article <Bu0JBE.Dop@gpu.utcs.utoronto.ca> aryk@gpu.utcs.utoronto.ca (A.J.S. Nusbacher) writes:
>In article <7887@hq.hq.af.mil> snolan@marge.hq.af.mil writes:
>
>>Our camp surmised that some irate local was on his CB home station
>>telling misinformation about us on the channels used by traffic of
>>I-79.  We figured that someone was telling the beasts to bleat at us.
>>
>>Any other ideas?  
>
A lot of truckers probably blow their airhorns because a) they are bored
from white line fever and we are something unusual and b) they assume
that we must be some sort of Boy Scout Jamboree or other mundane group
and are wishing us well.

>     
Lothar \|/
        0



Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
From: aryk@gpu.utcs.utoronto.ca (A.J.S. Nusbacher)
Subject: Re: SCA Heraldry and Copyright Law
Organization: University of Toronto -- Hart House
Date: Mon, 31 Aug 1992 16:17:04 GMT

If you want to copyright your arms, then all you need to do is display them
with a copyright notice:  Copyright symbol, date, and your name.  If you want
to register your copyright with local governmental authorities, you need to
send them an emblazon along with a registration form.  In most countries this
is deposited in a national archive.  You will likely also need to send a fee.
If, for some strange reason, you want the SCA Inc. to hold the copyright on
your arms, you can assign the copyright to SCA Inc.  That will, however,
change the length of time your design is protected.

Canada and the US have convenient booklets on the subject, and most universities
have officers in charge of copyright law (all those photocopiers, all that
liability).  For a definitive statement on the law, consult somebody admitted
to your local bar.

Aryk Nusbacher
From: branwen@cerebus.ccc.amdahl.com (Karen Williams)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: COVINGTON CROSS
Date: 26 Aug 92 19:26:26 GMT
Followup-To: rec.org.sca
Organization: Amdahl Corporation, Sunnyvale CA

In article <1992Aug26.172137.10374@hubcap.clemson.edu> rarnold@hubcap.clemson.edu (robert e arnold) writes:

> The show offers scenery and costumes. 

Actually, the show has great scenery (real castles) and horrible costumes.
Most people went around in the equivalent of jeans tucked into boots with
a long shirt and vest over it. The armor looked like the the Lego men from
the castle sets. Sometimes the sons wore Costner Robin Hood-like outfits
with metal studs and leather. Ugh.

Branwen ferch Emrys
The Mists, the West

--
                                          Karen Williams
                                          branwen@cerebus.ras.amdahl.com
"Don't whine. Warrior women speak in a husky whisper."
  -- Brat Pack #3
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
From: cctimar@athena.cas.vanderbilt.edu (Charles)
Subject: Re: consort gender
Organization: Vanderbilt University student of numerology
Date: Wed, 26 Aug 92 05:15:59 GMT

To all upon the Rialto doth Charles the clerk send his greetings!

Henry Best writeth:
>                  
>    Bear in mind that a crown's marriage is primarily political. In the
> SCA, it is a gross mistake to assume the crowns are anything other than
> political and ceremonial partners.
> I have heard that this kind of partnership is pretty common. 

I am aware of one instance in which a consort was a lesbian, so it has
happened.  (I do not know whether the lady's preference is a matter of
public knowledge, so I won't mention her name or kingdom.)

The past Baron and Baroness of Glaedenfeld were each married to another
gentle, and made this very clear at their investiture.  I felt this was
quite OOP.  To match period practice, they should have been "officially
married" and each had an affair on the side.  They could not have done
this, however, because it would not be good for their children to be
known as "the Baron's Bastard," or whatever.  I still wish that they
had found some other, more suitable configuration.
-- 
    -- Charles, student, in Glaedenfeld, Meridies
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
From: schuldy@progress.COM (Mark Schuldenfrei)
Subject: Re: Need Senechal Addresses (Meridies & East)
Organization: Progress Software Corp.
Date: Tue, 1 Sep 1992 16:58:04 GMT

Duncan MacKinnon asks for Seneschal addresses for the East
and Meridies.  Kids, I'll handle the East.

	Tibor
--
Mark Schuldenfrei (schuldy@progress.com)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
From: mittle@watson.ibm.com (Josh Mittleman)
Subject: Re: Multiple titles 
Date: Tue, 01 Sep 1992 16:56:41 GMT
Disclaimer: This posting represents the poster's views, not necessarily those of IBM
Organization: IBM T.J. Watson Research Center

Greetings from Arval!

T. Archer wrote:

> On a more serious note, I was under the impression that Custom allowed one 
> to "enforce" up to TWO titles, and to call oneself, for example, "Master
> Sir  M______."

It is indeed a common practice, but not correct by medieval standards, as
far as I have been able to determine.  There are circumstances in which it
is proper to enumerate all one's titles, but it is just as easy to do it in
a period manner, rather than a modern one.  Instead of "Viscount Viscount
Viscount Viscount Master Master Baron Sir Edward," one can use the far
grander-sounding "Viscount Edward, Companion of the Laurel and the Pelican,
Knight of the West, Baron of the Court of the East, Four-time Prince of An
Tir."

Fun facts: Do you realize that the distinction of awards, grants, and
patents of arms is _entirely_ an invention of the SCA?  Anywhere else in
the world, the three terms mean _exactly_ the same thing.  

===========================================================================
Arval Benicoeur                                       mittle@watson.ibm.com
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
From: sussman@socrates.umd.edu (Jeff Sussman)
Subject: Re: period songs
Organization: University of Maryland University College
Date: Fri, 4 Sep 1992 19:14:29 GMT

Greetings!

>I think there is a terminology problem getting in the way of this 
>exchange.  Julitta lists the following songs from her repertoire and 

>Of these, the only one that is period, according to Julitta's notes, is
>the last.  Others are about period incidents or people, but that does *not*
>mean the song is period.  A song is composed of, among things, language
>and music; you can tell a period story in a very non-period way, and you
>can tell non-period stories in period ways.  What was under discussion here
>was the authenticity of the *songs*.

Under this definition of period you make it impossible to compose new material
that is period.  For my own definition of period, a song that is composed and
presented exactly in a period fashion is period.  If I make a replica of a
period pavillion, using period tools and period materials I call it a period
pavillion.

>I have never heard Julitta perform and certainly pass no judgement on her;
>I just think people are operating under two different definitions of period.
>"Period in feel" and "period" are different, and I am sure that 
>misunderstandings can be avoided in the future by using the correct term.

I could listen to _Born On The Listfield_ over and over and ....

Richard Fitzgilbert					Jeff Sussman
Storvik (even though Julitta doesn't like us :) )	Silver Spring
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
From: aryk@gpu.utcs.utoronto.ca (A.J.S. Nusbacher)
Subject: Re: Historical Accuracy (was Re: COVINGTON CROSS)
Organization: University of Toronto -- Hart House
Date: Thu, 27 Aug 1992 16:57:03 GMT

A great movie about re-enactors and fiction is _Sweet Liberty_.  A production
company is making a film about the American Revolution based on a history
prof's historical novel.  He and the re-enactors who have been hired for the
battle scenes have all sorts of nasty interactions with the production company
and the actors over these things.  Eventually they...well, I guess you could
go out and rent it.

The drums in _Cromwell_ are all slung wrong, by the way.

And soldiers in movies always salute with their hats off.

Aryk Nusbacher