HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: dstamp@watserv1.uwaterloo.ca (Dave Stampe-Psy+Eng)
Newsgroups: sci.virtual-worlds
Subject: Re: TECH: world description
Date: 17 Aug 92 13:25:52 GMT
Article-I.D.: watserv1.Bt4qn4.Bpn
Organization: University of Waterloo
Originator: hlab@milton.u.washington.edu



petersom@ucsu.Colorado.EDU (Mark Peterson) writes:

>I think MUDDs are a step in the general direction of Cyberspace,
>however, I see a few MAJOR draw-backs to this type of environment.
>The problem I see lies in creating security for such a system.  For
>those of you whom are not familiar with how the object-oriented system
>of how a mud works, it is as follows.
>
>1)      The user types some command.
>
>2)      The system then looks for a procedure that handles that command.
>
>3)      ***Here's the problem.*** The system starts in your inventory,
>        looking for an object to handle that command, then it goes to
>        the inventory of the room...this could be your player object, or
>        some object lying in the room, next it goes to the environment itself.
>        If it goes all of the way through this list, and can't find the
>        command, it will give you an error.
>
>Here's why this is a problem.  If you override some command, in for
>example an object in your inventory, it will never get to the
>environment.  This is bad, because a net-runner could override your
>security also, which is embedded in the system, simply by calling the
>base-level procedures or creating his own to run on your system.
>
>This is a common problem on Muds, when people become wizards, they
>sometimes try to write objects which give them administrative access.
>
>Anyway, this is the major problem I see.  Any ideas???

Quite simply, you don't run the system this way.  Commands are
addressed to a single object only, and if the object can't find a
generic way to do the command, it doesn't.  Because you have a 3D
environment to interact with, this works quite well (physical
contact=selector, etc).  Cammands are usuallty stuff like move,
manipulate (open/close), disappear, assign movement control, etc.  So
the command set is more of a list for the user machine to figure out
how to use.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------
| My life is Hardware,                    |                              | 
| my destiny is Software,                 |         Dave Stampe          |
| my CPU is Wetware...                    |                              | 
| Anybody got a SDB I can borrow?         | dstamp@watserv1.uwaterloo.ca |
__________________________________________________________________________
From: geoffrey@cosc.canterbury.ac.nz (Geoff Thomas)
Newsgroups: sci.virtual-worlds
Subject: PUBS: Wanting e-mail address for Francis Balaguer
Date: 21 Aug 92 02:32:46 GMT
Organization: Computer Science,University of Canterbury,New Zealand
Originator: hlab@milton.u.washington.edu



I'm wanting to get hold of Francis Balaguer or Angelo Magili, the
authors of the paper "Virtual Environments" in the faq file
~/faq/papers/VirtualEnvironments.ps.Z. If anyone knows of their
email address, could they forward it to me.

Thanks very much,

Geoff Thomas
From: mcint_wn@archsci.arch.su.OZ.AU
Newsgroups: sci.virtual-worlds
Subject: DESIGN: Virtual User Interface Management System and development tools
Date: 17 Aug 92 09:15:09 GMT
Article-I.D.: u.1992Aug17.192737.14940
Organization: University of Washington
Originator: hlab@milton.u.washington.edu



Apart from the Virtual worlds being developed for numerous
aplications, I would like to hear from anyone who has experimented
with a Virtual User Interface Management System.

There have been various suggestions for developments in this area and
include virtual control panels which the user calls up with voice or
gesture, drop down panels or menus which drop down, like pull down
menus, but in the virtual space, arrays of picture type icons on a
virtual wall, which the user invokes in a "pick a box" manner.... the
list goes on.

I would like to hear from anyone who has comments, feedback or papers
etc on the development of user interface development tools such as
Hypercard, Xview etc. but for virtual reality. Such tools would rely
on some standard of interface with the virtual world.

Has anyone thought of developing such toolkits?  Are their any
development tools already out there?

Ways we might integrate the popular software programs of today, CAD,
Spreadsheets, Desktop Publishing, amongst others, into a virtual
space. There is an emerging gap between current software products and
the proposed uses for virtual realities. Cyberspace tends to be about
spatial representation and not much else. The man in the street might
ask how such technology will help in the formulation of a spreadsheet.
Or how will we represent "on paper" data in cyberspace...? any
comments ?

Thanks
Peter McIntyre
mcint_wn@archsci.arch.su.oz.au
Newsgroups: sci.virtual-worlds
From: rpi@well.sf.ca.us (David Reed)
Subject: JOBS: Positions available - Simulation/visualization. DOS/UNIX.
Originator: hlab@milton.u.washington.edu
Organization: Whole Earth 'Lectronic Link
Date: Sat, 22 Aug 1992 19:47:52 GMT



Simulation/visualization programmers for utilities, drivers & porting
sought. ALSO, data acquisition board/software specialists. DOS/UNIX. 

Resume and salary/fee requirements to: 

RPI Advanced Technology Group, POB 14607,
San Francisco, CA, USA, 94114. 

Experience in digital animation/VR/sensing systems/high-end graphics
systems helpful.
Newsgroups: sci.virtual-worlds
From: dstamp@watserv1.uwaterloo.ca (Dave Stampe-Psy+Eng)
Subject: Re: DESIGN: Doors between virtual worlds
Originator: hlab@milton.u.washington.edu
Organization: University of Waterloo
Date: Fri, 14 Aug 1992 16:59:26 GMT



In article <1992Aug14.094401.13860@u.washington.edu> avi@usl.com writes:

>And the issue of changing contexts is important.  If we move from
>a universe without gravity to one with it, we could, _under certain
>circumstances_ fall apart.  Assuming rigid body transformations,
>we might simply tumble off-balance into the other universe and there
>is the possibility that the transition is instantaneous to avoid
>these issues but it's not clear.  If the system wasn't well thought
>out, we could shear ourselves as we pass through.

Actually, I doubt that.  Objects will be indivisible to start with,
and either will be affected by both areas mechanistically (tumbles) or
by the region their centroid is in (transition).

>>Now the question is:  how hard is it actually to implement a cyber-
>>spatial renderer capable of depicting virtual holograms?  I doubt it's
>>entirely trivial, as most renderers currently assume that all the
>>objects they're rendering are present in "real" virtual space, not 
>>"virtual", holographic virtual space.  (Virtual virtual space!)
>>
>I think the environmental mapping solution would work for z-buffer
>or scanline approaches.  It doesn't really have a place for regular
>painter's algorithms.

There are several ways to do this with painter's.  First, if the
portal is in a wall, just change the world behind the wall.  Second,
pre-render a view through the portal (at the angle etc. to match the
real view) then copy it to the portal area when drawing its poly.  The
second option is probably too expensive for most PC-based systems,
though.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------
| My life is Hardware,                    |                              | 
| my destiny is Software,                 |         Dave Stampe          |
| my CPU is Wetware...                    |                              | 
| Anybody got a SDB I can borrow?         | dstamp@watserv1.uwaterloo.ca |
__________________________________________________________________________
From: cdshaw@cs.ualberta.ca (Chris Shaw)
Newsgroups: sci.virtual-worlds
Subject: Re: SCI: Timestamps...
Date: 12 Aug 92 20:36:17 GMT
Article-I.D.: u.1992Aug14.095859.14497
Organization: University of Alberta
Originator: hlab@milton.u.washington.edu



In article harrison@beta.lanl.gov (David A. Harrison) writes:

>>all the VAX system clocks are kept to within 10 milliseconds 
>
>that 10 millisecond accuracy can be maintained on 60 computers with
>little affect on bandwidth; however, this does not answer the
>possibility of synchronizing on a WAN. 

This 10 millisecond figure can be achieved or bettered using the
Network Time Protocol (that's probably what the VAX quote refers to,
actually). A lot of people across the continent run NTP, and it's
apparently good enough to keep all machines with adjustable clocks to
within 25-50 milliseconds of the clock standard.

NTP uses a sophisticated statistical treatment of message transport to
get an estimate of the what the real time is, coupled with adjustments
to the computer's clock to slowly edge the computer time in sync with
global time. The time variance under NTP is much less than what you'd
get with the obvious "time a packet turnaround" algorithm.

Which isn't to say this problem is solved, just that synchronization
is less of a problem than burstiness and transport delay, I think.


Chris Shaw               University of Alberta
cdshaw@cs.UAlberta.ca    CatchPhrase: Bogus as HELL !
Newsgroups: sci.virtual-worlds
From: 76130.2225@CompuServe.COM (John Eagan)
Newsgroups: sci.virtual-worlds
Subject: Re: INDUSTRY: Nintendo & Sega?
Date: 14 Aug 92 17:12:04 GMT
Article-I.D.: u.1992Aug17.062955.23669
Organization: University of Washington
Originator: hlab@milton.u.washington.edu



Richard M. Coffey <c-crm@math.utah.edu> writes:

>Does anyone know anything about the home video game giants coming out
>with HMD's or any VR related technologies?  If so, how close are they
>to coming out with it?  By the way, does anyone know LCD manufacturers
>who would sell high definition LCD's to a couple of hacks?

>[MODERATOR'S NOTE: Nintendo is reportedly working with Bulletproof
>Software on another rendition of the enclosed environment game.  Any
>details from the Peanut Gallery? -- Bob Jacobson]

According to Reuters reports, Sega and GE are going to sign, or have
signed by now, an agreement to share technology for some sort of "home
virtual reality-based game system" (whatever that will actually be! it
was pretty vague...but you know how that goes, somebody at Reuters was
probably just copying a Sega/GE press release and doesn't have a clue
either)

The thing _I_ want to know about is this: in an edition of Cyberedge
(November?) there was a report about a joint effort between AGE (the
Powerglove folks!) and Texas Instruments to develop a "home" HMD, sort
of in the same way as AGE adapted the VPL Dataglove to a cheap "home
version", I guess. The thing that got my attention (besides the
obvious) was a line about something like "using a new optical chip to
provide resolution comparable to HDTV" (paraphrased...something close
to that wording). This particular notice sure caught MY attention!
Unfortunately, that's the last I heard about it. What is the story
here? What's happening now? What exactly IS this "new optical chip"??
I want DETAILS!. :-)

******************************************************************
*John Eagan                         "humans is funny critters.." *
*VR section leader                                   -me         *
*Computer Art Forum                                              *
*CompuServe                                                      *
*compuserve:76130,2225                                           *
*internet:76130.2225@compuserve.com                              *
******************************************************************
Newsgroups: sci.virtual-worlds
From: dstamp@watserv1.uwaterloo.ca (Dave Stampe-Psy+Eng)
Subject: Re: DESIGN: Doors between virtual worlds
Originator: hlab@milton.u.washington.edu
Organization: University of Waterloo
Date: Fri, 14 Aug 1992 17:16:02 GMT



76130.2225@CompuServe.COM (John Eagan) writes:

>The way I'm thinking of this (see earlier posts), is that each World
>is a completely separate, discrete unit. Each World contains it's own
>....
>The way I'm starting to look at this is first, the Universe would be a
>simple matrix of objects acting as Portals. If it is a matrix, as in a
>cubic sort of arrangement, you could navigate "virtually" through the
>matrix to get to the Portal for the World you want, or there could
>also be an addressing system based on 3d coordinates....i.e., you
>could go directly to a "known" World by typing, say, "1.235.24" and
>one would then be located at the Portal for that World.

I think this is a bit simplistic: if we define things based on regions
and forget about room-like "worlds" we get a much more realistic view.
Worlds are fine, but let's look at them as poorly-connected regions of
the region-connection graph.  That way we can have BIG worlds, made up
of simple regions.  After all, travel is half the fun, right?

>For the Portals themselves, my thought was that a Portal would be like
>any other object in the sense that objects would be defined as a
>certain visual appearance, and have associated with it an action or
>actions that can be triggered by collision detection using the user's
>coordinates from a glove or whatever.
>
>A Portal, as seen from inside a World, would be an object sitting in
>that World, like any other, with it's own appearance and a location
>defined in that World's coordinate system. The action triggered in the
>case of the Portal "object" would be to immediately take you "outside"
>(if you're in the World and want to go back to the Universe level)
>leaving you beside the Portal representation in the Universe matrix,
>or if you're in the Universe matrix and want to enter a World, would
>cause you to enter a World, dropping you at the location coordinates
>of the enter/exit Portal as represented inside the World.

If you want to, fine.  But portals aren't the basis of the world
network, they're special cases.  Otherwise you end up with something
like VR Studio, with blank portals connecting simple areas.  OK for
playing video games, but far too simple for immersive VR.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------
| My life is Hardware,                    |                              | 
| my destiny is Software,                 |         Dave Stampe          |
| my CPU is Wetware...                    |                              | 
| Anybody got a SDB I can borrow?         | dstamp@watserv1.uwaterloo.ca |
__________________________________________________________________________
Newsgroups: sci.virtual-worlds
From: John Eagan <76130.2225@CompuServe.COM>
Subject: Re: Sci-VW: TECH: Volumetric Touch Screens
Originator: hlab@milton.u.washington.edu
Organization: University of Washington
Date: Mon, 17 Aug 1992 23:08:23 GMT



jew5001@zeus.tamu.edu (WILLIAMSON, JOHN EDWARD) writes:

>(stuff deleted) 
>
>Now that I am feeling cocky, I would like to build another "VR" type
>of interface.  I vaguely remember reading a description of a home brew
>touch screen interface in _Circuit Cellar_ (???)  by Garcia (??) a few
>years ago.  The author included plans for a grid of photo-cells and
>lights mounted in a frame places over the monitor.  When the light
>path was broken, a signal was sent to the computer so that the
>location could be calculated.  I think the author mentioned
>constructing multiple frames to create a type of "volumetric touch
>screen."
>
>First, would this work in principle?

Until a few months ago I was working at a AC plasma display
manufacturer that used touch. They used to use IR touch for most
units, and still do for those who don't want to change, but decided to
switch to SAW touchscreens. In brief, yes, the idea you mention should
work in theory.  The main thing would be in processing the "broken
beam" reports in each x-y plane, and determining a z coordinate based
on finding a dividing point between a group of x-y planes reporting a
touch (broken beams) and those not reporting a break, thereby deducing
where the end of the object is that's breaking beams (the end of your
finger).

To consider:

1. the devices must be IR range, with a IR filter covering them
(otherwise ambient light wreaks havoc...this is probably already
spelled out in that article)

2. you would literally be working inside a box as high and as wide as
your screen

3. you'll need a bucketfull of IR devices, and..

4. they will fail sooner or later, and after about the twentieth time
you've ripped the whole thing apart to troubleshoot and replace bad
devices in frame 15 in a stack of 40 or something, you'll be ready to
toss the thing into a lake

5. adding the hardware to deal with z-touches and software to find the
z touch along with individual x-y touches....might not actually be
that bad, but you'll have to sort it out

******************************************************************
*John Eagan                         "humans is funny critters.." *
*VR section leader                                   -me         *
*Computer Art Forum                                              *
*CompuServe                                                      *
*compuserve:76130,2225                                           *
*internet:76130.2225@compuserve.com                              *
******************************************************************
Newsgroups: sci.virtual-worlds
From: M.E.Morris@bnr.co.uk (Michele Morris)
Subject: Re: INDUSTRY: W Industries current address?
Originator: hlab@milton.u.washington.edu
Organization: BNR Europe Limited, London Road, Harlow, Essex, GB
Date: Thu, 13 Aug 1992 08:30:29 GMT



In the referenced article cjp@robots.oxford.ac.uk (Christopher
Patmore) writes:

>In article <1992Aug10.164648.22231@u.washington.edu> 
>csg078@cck.coventry.ac.uk (~Zebedee~) writes:
>
>>Does anyone know the address of Leicester (UK) based VR company W-Industries?

I phoned the company in early in July and the details they gave me
were:

3 Oswin Rd., Brailsford Industrial Park, Leicester LE3 1HR, England.

Tel: +44-(0)533 - 542 127
Fax: +44-(0)533 - 471 855

I hope that helps ... Michele


*************************************************************************
email: M.E.Morris@bnr.co.uk    phone: +44 279 429531   fax: +44 279 441551
BNR Europe Limited, London Road, Harlow, Essex, CM17 9NA, England.

        I think it's kind of interesting the way things get to be.
        The way the people work with their machines.
**************************************************************************
From: 76130.2225@CompuServe.COM (John Eagan)
Newsgroups: sci.virtual-worlds
Subject: Re: DESIGN: doors between worlds
Date: 14 Aug 92 17:11:52 GMT
Article-I.D.: u.1992Aug17.062830.23607
Organization: University of Washington
Originator: hlab@milton.u.washington.edu



jtt@icf.hrb.com (Jack Taylor) writes:

>(stuff deleted)
>Portals really have to have some defined graphical representation so a
>traveler always knows when he/she sees one. I hate the door analogy
>but it just might be the best one. How about just a strechy hole? I
>can reach my hands in and pull it open and look "inside". How about a
>phone booth with a "directory"? Dial a world!

My thoughts exactly. At some point I suggested possibly having some
sort of icon for each World Portal, but the more I think about it, the
more I think that wouldn't be the right approach. Rather, keep the
K.I.S.S.  principle in action here...have some standard
representation, so if, for example, you're inside a World, and want to
exit back to the Universe level, or jump into another World, you
easily recognize the Portal, the same way you can spot a phone booth
instantly when you see it. Just have a cube or sphere, hey, maybe a
black obelisk. (which I would personally find pretty funny...you can
figure that one out yourselves, I'm sure :-)

******************************************************************
*John Eagan                         "humans is funny critters.." *
*VR section leader                                   -me         *
*Computer Art Forum                                              *
*CompuServe                                                      *
*compuserve:76130,2225                                           *
*internet:76130.2225@compuserve.com                              *
******************************************************************
Newsgroups: sci.virtual-worlds
From: stgprao@xing.unocal.com (Richard Ottolini)
Subject: Re: DESIGN: Virtual User Interface Management System and
Originator: hlab@milton.u.washington.edu
Organization: Unocal Corporation
Date: Mon, 17 Aug 1992 22:11:23 GMT



In article <1992Aug17.192737.14940@u.washington.edu>
mcint_wn@archsci.arch.su.OZ.AU writes:

>There have been various suggestions for developments in this area and
>include virtual control panels which the user calls up with voice or
>gesture, drop down panels or menus which drop down, like pull down
>menus, but in the virtual space, arrays of picture type icons on a
>virtual wall, which the user invokes in a "pick a box" manner.... the
>list goes on.

In the history of the arts, a new media imitates established media
until it finds its own creative forms.  Early TV imitated radio and
theatre, printed books imitated illuminated books, metal tools
imitated stone tools, and so on.  There is no apriori reason why VR-UI
have to imitate screen UIs.  Think 3-D.  Think immersive.  Think whole
body gestures.

A menu could be ornaments on a xmas tree, objects on a table top or shelf.
We could use a gestural language, not unlike sign language.

Our imaginations will be the limit.
Newsgroups: sci.virtual-worlds
From: deering@deering.Eng.Sun.COM (Michael F. Deering)
Subject: Re: TECH: Maximum lag time?
Originator: hlab@milton.u.washington.edu
Organization: Sun Microsystems, Mt. View, Ca.
Date: Tue, 18 Aug 1992 07:31:19 GMT



The operative term is ``visably perceived lag''.  No matter how fast
the tracker is, there are additional source of lag in any VR system:
the computer interface to the tracker (manytimes a serial port), and
the time to render the 3D imagery.

In addition, most 3D tracking technologys have some amount of noise in
their data, and noise filtering techniques (e.g. averaging) can add
considerable additional lag.

In other words, you can't directly compare a lag measurement from a
manufacture's spec sheet with the ``< 100ms'' lag rules of thumb.
Typically you have to put the whole system together before the actual
lag between actual physical user motion and screen responce can be
accurately measured.

With a fast enough tracker, you can further reduce the visiable
apparent latency by ``predicting'' from previous input events where
the body part you are following (head, hand, body) will likely be in
the very near future, BUT DON'T TRY THIS UNLESS THE LAG IS ALREADY
LESS THAN 100ms.  (Otherwise the prediction will cause the user to
overshoot, and be overall worse than no prediction at all.)

Finially, some manufactures of 3D trackers do various amounts of
pre-processing of the 3D data in their boxes before passing it on to
you.  Without exacting specifications about what's been done to the
data, it's hard to know how much more you can do with it.

All this assumes that you have a renderer that can achieve a similarly
fast frame rate (< 100ms => > 10 frame/sec).  If your renderer is
slowerer than that, the most a fast tracker can do is keep from making
things worse.

Michael Deering         Email: Michael.Deering@Eng.Sun.COM
Sun Microsystems        Phone: (415) 336-3017
Mountain View, CA       FAX:   (415) 336-1525
From: wightman@earvax.waisman.wisc.edu
Newsgroups: sci.virtual-worlds
Subject: RE: EDUC: Schools doing virtual reality research
Date: 12 Aug 92 13:19:21 GMT
Organization: Waisman Center, University of Wisconsin-Madison
Originator: hlab@milton.u.washington.edu



In the list of schools doing virtual reality research, the University
of Wisconsin, Madison was missing. The hearing group here has been
working on 3-D sound and virtual auditory displays for over 5 years,
now, and several papers have appeared detailing the results of this
research. I would think this might qualify us for inclusion in this
list. Thanks.

Fred Wightman
wightman@waisman.wisc.edu