HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: jpak@oakhill.sps.mot.com (Jim Pak)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.asian.american
Subject: Physically Superior (was Re: Surviving in a White Man's world)
Date: 16 Aug 92 07:42:21 GMT
Reply-To: jpak@manute.sps.mot.com (Kinder and Gentler Jim)
Distribution: na
Organization: Motorola Inc.  Austin, Tx.

In article <6223@ucru2.ucr.edu> lulu@troi.ucr.edu (david lu) writes:
>Okay, let's see if we can hold a discussion without any name-callings
>and foul language.

Well, considering this is "Kinder and Gentler" me who's responding, I don't
see why that would be a problem.  :-)

>> Point 3:  Why do white men think that they are superior in looks and 
>>              physique to oriental males.  It is all media developed 
>>              stereotypes.
>
>I think very few people will disagree that *on average*, white men are
>superior to Asian men physically.  Perhaps this is biological, perhaps
>this is cultural.

I just wanted to respond to this one point in your post.  Although I under-
stand the point you're making, please realize that the term "superior" is
a bit too general for what you want to say.  Although white men may be
*on average* taller or even stronger in terms of brute strength (and this
becomes less and less the truth when you compare them to Nth-generation AA
men), I believe Asian men (well, let me use Japanese men in particular since
I've read this stat somewhere) live longer.  They have fewer heart attacks.
Stuff like that.  In fact, I've read somewhere that someone put forth a
theory that perhaps larger/taller men *on average* die sooner than smaller/
shorter men, for whatever reasons.  So you see, "superior" may be too broad
of a word to use here.

It's like when I occasionally hear that men are physically superior to women.
That's true *ONLY IF* you discount that women:

1. Tend to live longer than men.
2. Are less likely to be born with birth defects.
3. Have greater endurance capability due to their body shape.
4. Get fewer heart attacks and other serious diseases (which probably is a
   large reason why (1) is true).
5. Are much less likely to be color-blind than men.
6. Are a hell of a lot better-looking.  :-) :-)

etc etc etc.

So who's superior physically?  See what I mean?  (BTW, the answer to that
question is "women."  I dare any guy to argue that point here.  :-) )

Sorry if this is too much of a semantical argument.  But I felt the need to
point this out.

Kinder and Gentler Jim
Newsgroups: soc.culture.asian.american
From: wung@puttgen.ee.gatech.edu (Peter Wung)
Subject: Re: Why do minority groups whine?
Reply-To: wung@puttgen.ee.gatech.edu
Organization: Sun Microsystems
Date: Fri, 14 Aug 1992 17:31:58 GMT

In article @engin.umich.edu, kamprath@caen.engin.umich.edu (Michael F. Kamprath) writes:
>In article <1992Aug12.141257.10243@ee.gatech.edu> Peter Wung, wung@puttgen.ee.gatech.edu
>writes:
>>
>After the Rodney King beating, alot of news agencies and shows started to 
>show and srite of stories of police abuse not just towards minorities, but
>towards the genral populace (yes, Whites included).  Alot of White America
>probaly thought that they were just blowing things up because its that
>"White vs. Black" thing.  But then once seeing these other accounts, then
>they realized that the problem also affects them.  
>
>How do you dot his for every problem?  I don't know, because I really do 
>not know all the problems.  But you must feed on what motivates people in
>order to get them to do/change something.  Example: Alot of White America 
>is up in arms over Affirmative Action because they feel that it puts them 
>at a  disadvantage.  Using this as a foothold, show how minorities are too
>at a disadvantage and go from there (not a original idea, someone actually
>used it on me).  Most Whites _ARE_ reasonable, whether they know it or not.
>  
>Michael F. Kamprath
>kamprath@caen.engin.umich.edu

I think you have hit a crucial point in the discussion.  When a minority
person states emphatically,"this is the way it is, I live it, I know", he/she
will inevitably get the "Well, I know some (state your favorite minority), and
he says that this is not true."  I don't expect every white person to have a 
uniform experience in life, why shouldn't minorities be expected to do the same?

The key is: listen to what we have to say and use it as A reference, not THE 
reference.  Nothing steams me more than when I speak about my experiences 
a white person interrupts to state that not everyone agrees with me.  That
act does three things:
1) He called me a liar, 
2) He assumed that I am irrational enough to believe that I speak for my minority, and
3) He is not listening to what I have to say.

I know whites are reasonable, its penetrating their defensive mechanisms to get
at their basic decency that I have problems with.

****************************************************************************
*Peter Wung				Email:wung@ee.gatech.edu	   * 
*Electric Power Laboratory		Snail mail: 33787 Ga. Tech Station * 
*School of Electrical Engineering		    Atlanta, GA 30332      *
*Georgia Institute of Technology				    	   *        *Atlanta, Georgia							   *
*   	"Pass, Set, CRUSH!"...						   * 
*  	Well, 2 out of 3 ain't bad for a short, fat guy.  		   *
*									   *
****************************************************************************
From: hira@cme.nist.gov (Ron Hira)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.asian.american
Subject: Re: Caucasians don't understand
Date: 14 Aug 92 11:52:24 GMT
Reply-To: hira@cme.nist.gov
Organization: National Institute of Standards and Technology

JESUS CHRIST!

How many times do I have to whine about you defining Caucasian as White.
I'm Indian, which is considered caucasoid, but not White.
Get it straight people!

Ron
Television: The Drug Of A Nation
From: ningwang@acsu.buffalo.edu (Ning Wang)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.asian.american
Subject: ALL OF YOU ARE F***ING ASSHOLES!!!
Date: 13 Aug 92 03:24:50 GMT
Organization: UB


asians: shut up, stop this "white guys" crap and lookin the mirrior again
you're neither black nor white, does this give you a self-identity problem?
are you going to admit it by talking about it all the time??
or are you going to stop this crap and actually do something to imporove
your own positions??
Newsgroups: soc.culture.asian.american
From: bgt@cbnewsh.cb.att.com (barbara.tongue)
Subject: Re: One does not a people make (was: Re: Keeping in mind ....)
Organization: AT&T
Distribution: na
Date: Wed, 12 Aug 1992 19:58:07 GMT

In article <HIEBELER.92Aug12141350@custard.think.com> hiebeler@think.com (Dave Hiebeler) writes:
->
->In article <SHAW.92Aug12104858@whopper.lcs.mit.edu> shaw@whopper.lcs.mit.edu (Andy Shaw) writes:
->
->> Your self-esteem was non-existent, and you tried to join an Asian
->> group/clique?  Frankly, if I were a member of that group, I wouldn't feel
->> too flattered -- people with no self-esteem don't try to shoot for the
->> dominant group, they tend to try to hang out with the losers, who they
->> think will accept them easier.
->
->  I disagree with this.  Sometimes it may be true, but I've seen
->plenty of situations where the opposite behavior was true -- someone
->had very low self-esteem, and they would work like a maniac doing
->everything much beyond what was asked for (e.g. on projects at school
->or work), in order to "prove their value".  By the way, the 2 specific
->people that pop to my mind right away as examples are both
->Chinese-American.
->
->  A person with low self-esteem may also "flail around" a bit in order
->to find something that gives some satisfaction, e.g. learning a new
->culture, changing their lifestyle in various ways.  They may seek out
->people who seem happy, to try to learn some things from them.
->
->  I think you should not feel so offended if someone with low
->self-esteem is interested in joining your group.

dave, thanx for expressing your thoughts so clearly, mine are quite
similiar.  i believe that a person can feel low selfEsteem in

	1.) one-on-one interactions
	2.) group interactions
	3.) professional interactions
	etc. etc. etc.

it was an episode in my life.  i learned quite a lot from it.  do i
want to repeat (accept a patronizing situation) it?  nope.  but neither
do i ignore or forget it.  

one learns lessons from everything.

-- 
%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%
%%   The Speaking Tongue, AT&T   %%  C Code.  C Code Run.  Run, Code, RUN! %%
%%       bgt@homxc.att.com       %%           PLEASE!!!!                   %%
%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%
From: timlee@public.btr.com
Newsgroups: soc.culture.asian.american
Subject: Re: Politics
Date: 13 Aug 92 06:42:51 GMT
Reply-To: timlee@btr.com (Timothy J. Lee)
Followup-To: soc.culture.asian.american

hira@cme.nist.gov writes:
|In article <7683@public.BTR.COM>, timlee@public.btr.com writes:
||>Social Security is a ridiculous welfare program -- it is funded by
||>a special regressive payroll tax, and it pays the largest benefits
||>to the rich.  A better way would be to fund it from regular taxes
||>and pay a flat benefit to everyone.
|
|Nope. Its a different type of welfare system, that was not only set up
|as a safety net, but also as forced savings. That's why the people who
|contributed the most, receive the most benefits.

But it functions poorly in both respects.  As a safety net, the poor
won't get much of one to retire on (because they won't have as many
"pay in" credits); as a savings plan, the rate of return is worse
that one would get elsewhere (even things like passbook savings accounts).

|                                                 If you feel sorry for
|old folks, we should set up a safety net for all poor folks, not just
|poor old ones. The system was set up a certain way and should not be
|changed, IMO. 

Instead, have a safety net welfare program for all poor people
(for example, see below) and, if it is really necessary to force
people to save, have mandatory IRAs that can hold any investment
the people want.
 
||>Or go one step further -- replace the entire welfare and tax
||>machinery (including Social Security) with a flat tax rate and
||>a standard tax credit.  If the resulting tax due is negative,
||>it becomes a welfare payment.
|
|Great in theory, but almost impossible politically even in this wave 
|of 'throw the bums out' rhetoric. Jerry Brown took a lot of heat for 
|the flat tax rate proposal. 

Perhaps people will change their minds when they find out who
really pays the highest marginal tax rates.  It isn't the richest
people -- it's the middle class.  If you throw in how the current
welfare system phases away benefits very quickly as one earns
the first few dollars, the poor people are the ones facing the highest
marginal tax rates.

--------------------------------------------------------------------
Timothy J. Lee                 timlee@btr.com  ...!decwrl!btr!timlee
This message comes with no warranty, not even an implied warranty of
fitness for any particular purpose.
From: jdooley@maemaster.eng.uci.edu (John R. Dooley)
Subject: Re: Perceptions, Realities, Perceptions
Newsgroups: soc.culture.asian.american
Organization: University of California, Irvine
Date: 20 Aug 92 20:34:32 GMT

In article <1992Aug19.130154.18706@nynexst.com> clare@nynexst.com (Clare Chu) writes:
>
>  Oh, okay.  I meant that a man could get someone pregnant
>  in 5 minutes flat and move onto the next one, and do it
>  again in 5 minutes, and then move onto the next one, etc.

Yeah ... but you should see what the guys who are really virile can do.

John D.
From: ag3l+@andrew.cmu.edu (Arun K. Gupta)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.asian.american
Subject: Re: why satti is practiced...
Date: 14 Aug 92 16:58:33 GMT
Article-I.D.: andrew.UeX5Otm00WDMM1Gl9q
Organization: Physics, Carnegie Mellon, Pittsburgh, PA



Hinduism is what Hindus practice. Let us not get into the sterile mode
of making alibis -- caste-discrimination is not Hindu,  dowry is not 
Hindu, satti is not Hindu and so on.   (These kinds of alibis are used for
example, by Communists -- why communism failed is that we never
had ideal communism; and by some Muslims -- what exists around 
you and what Muslims practice is not `true' Islam and so on. There
may be a little merit in these arguments,  but mostly it is an excuse to
do nothing, to change nothing, to feel no outrage.)

We are to be measured by how much we realize our ideals; and not by
having great ideals which always give us an alibi.  Let us do away with
Satti and teach people to abhor its practice, and thus be able to hold our
heads high.

-arun gupta
ag3L@andrew.cmu.edu
Newsgroups: soc.culture.asian.american
Newsgroups: soc.culture.asian.american

Whenever anyone asks me "where are you from?" I automatically tell them
I was born and raised in Chicago.  Then when I notice the glazed look
from getting an answer that wasn't what they expected, I say, "Oh, you
mean what's my ancestry?  I'm Japanese-American."  That usually stops
any further comments about how good my English is. :-)
From: lchsu@cayley.uwaterloo.ca (Leon Hsu)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.asian.american
Subject: Re: Asian-American Guys Superior?
Date: 13 Aug 92 18:12:48 GMT
Organization: University of Waterloo

In article <1992Aug13.160545.20055@nynexst.com> clare@nynexst.com (Clare Chu) writes:
>  I know of a zero success rate for AsAm women asking out AsAm men. 

I don't get it. Is it just the guys in this newsgroup or what? Among 
my friends who are Asian-North-American males, most of them (maybe all,
but I'm afraid to make a blanket statement) have Asian-North-American
girlfriends (or at least those of us who do have girlfriends). The 
bunch of people I am thinking of are all born and raised Canadian. 
Hmm ... one of them might be American, but hey, no-one's perfect! :)

While I'm telling you about my experiences, I might as well add in the
fact that none of my best friends who are "white" are friends with me
just to be 'chic'. In fact none of my good friends who are "white"
are friends with me because just because I'm chinese. You may ask how
I'm so sure of that. Well, I can't say with 100% certainty, but can
you prove that you aren't the milkman's son/daughter with 100% certainty?

-leon.
Newsgroups: soc.culture.asian.american
From: jpak@oakhill.sps.mot.com (Jim Pak)
Subject: Re: Why do minority groups whine?
Reply-To: jpak@manute.sps.mot.com
Organization: Motorola Inc.  Austin, Tx.
Distribution: na
Date: Wed, 12 Aug 1992 22:50:17 GMT

In article <23434@alice.att.com> jj@alice.att.com (I'm just disgusted today) writes:
>I Don't Much Care!
>
>Do you think THIS is going to make the newsgroup a more
>friendly place?  Really?  Do you?  Are you SURE?
>
>Why don't you and Shaw, and maybe Pak, go off and start your
>own newsgroup?  I'll put asbestos around that disc drive, and
>even sound isolate it.

Ha ha ha.  I can't believe those words are coming from *your* mouth!  JJ,
don't you think maybe, just maybe, even *you* have helped make scaa a less
friendly place?  You've not grated on anybody's nerves here?  Not called
anybody a racist?  Not ranted and raved?  NAHHHHHH, can't be.  :-)

There's no way we three will start our own newsgroup without the King of
Shrill joining us.  Here's your charter invitation.

Jim

p.s. Your words above prove my point exactly about people of all colors
     "whining."
p.p.s. What do you have against Laly anyway?  He always comes off reasonable
       to me.
From: rw@HPLB.HPL.HP.COM (Russil Wvong)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.asian.american
Subject: Re: An open letter to Emperor Akihito of Japan
Date: 19 Aug 92 14:43:52 GMT
Article-I.D.: otter.9208191443.AA11571
Reply-To: russil%idacom.hp.com@hplb.hpl.hp.com (Russil Wvong)

Dwight Joe writes:
>I agree that Japan did a lot crap in Asia during WWII.  I also
>agree that the gov't of Japan is outright distorting the true history
>of WWII in the "history" books used in the public schools.  It is
>_wrong_ of the Japanese to do so.
>
>Yes.  Japan did pillage and plunder Korea and China.

Well, I'm glad you acknowledge this, Dwight.

>But what Japan did pales in comparison to what the Chinese have down.

Largely to themselves, yes?

Summary:
    ~50 million Chinese died from 1900 to 1949 (famine, disease, infanticide)
    ~20 million Chinese died during the Great Leap Forward (famine)
    ? million Chinese killed during the Cultural Revolution (civil war)
    30,000 Taiwanese killed during the 228 Incident (invasion)
    ? million Tibetans killed during during the invasion of Tibet (invasion)

(Historians estimate 1.5 million people died during the Cultural Revolution.)

>I have yet to see Chinese people apologize for the history of their
>"glorious" society.  What sheer hypocrisy for the Chinese to be
>demanding an apology from the Japanese.

Apologize to whom?  The Taiwanese, yes:  the KMT should apologize to the
survivors of the 228 Incident.  The Tibetans, yes:  the CCP should withdraw
the PLA from Tibet and apologize to the Tibetans.  But what about the rest,
the other 70-odd million victims?  Are you saying the Chinese people should
apologize to themselves for dying during civil wars and famines?

I think "shame" is what you're looking for.  You're saying, Chinese people
should be *ashamed* of their history and culture, rather than glorying in it.
Well, considering the list of victims above, you may have a point.  Many
Chinese intellectuals around the turn of the century, following the defeat
and colonization of China at the hands of the European powers, would have
agreed with you.  (The author of the "Ah Q" stories, for example.)

But I hope you're not saying that Japan should therefore be excused for
invading Korea and China.

>                                                       | Don't buy from Toyota;
>                                                       | especially, don't buy
>                                                       | from Capitol Toyota in
>                                                       | San Jose, California.

You want to give us the full story here?

--
Russil Wvong
Edmonton, Alberta, Canada
russil@idacom.hp.com
Not an official statement of HP.
From: hiebeler@think.com (Dave Hiebeler)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.asian.american
Subject: Re: One does not a people make (was: Re: Keeping in mind ....)
Date: 13 Aug 92 12:42:51
Organization: Thinking Machines Corporation
Distribution: na
	<SHAW.92Aug12104858@whopper.lcs.mit.edu>
	<HIEBELER.92Aug12141350@custard.think.com>
	<1992Aug12.195807.3342@cbnewsh.cb.att.com>
NNTP-Posting-Host: passion.think.com
In-reply-to: bgt@cbnewsh.cb.att.com's message of 12 Aug 92 19:58:07 GMT


In article <1992Aug12.195807.3342@cbnewsh.cb.att.com> bgt@cbnewsh.cb.att.com (barbara.tongue) writes:

> dave, thanx for expressing your thoughts so clearly, mine are quite
> similiar.

  Uh oh, aren't you afraid that now people will be thinking "gee, all
those whites, they must think alike"?  ;-)

--
Dave Hiebeler                  | hiebeler@think.com
Thinking Machines Corporation  | (617) 234-4070
Newsgroups: soc.culture.asian.american
From: Michael F. Kamprath <kamprath@space-grant.sprl.umich.edu>
Subject: Re: GOP Adopts Buchanan's Wall Against Illegal Immigration
Date: Fri, 21 Aug 92 04:41:58 EDT
Organization: University of Michigan, Aerospace Engineering
X-Useragent: Nuntius v1.1.1d5
X-Xxdate: Fri, 21 Aug 92 04:42:23 GMT

In article <9208210412.AA01166@public.BTR.COM> , timlee@btr.com writes:
>kamprath@caen.engin.umich.edu (Michael F. Kamprath) writes:
>|But once "illegal immigration" is legalized, then the econmic advantage
>|for the businesses to hire illegal aliens is gone.  Why?  Because now
>|the businesses must pay these workers at least minimum wage, as opposed
>|to the less-than-minimum-wage/slave-labor wages that they paid them before
>|legalization.  Basically, businesses like the situation now because when
>|they hire illegal aliens, everything can be "black;" no need to pay taxes,
>|no need to meet minimum pay standards, no need to ensure worker safety, etc.
>|This is because illegal aliens have no legal means to redress any employer
>|abuses.
>
>What's wrong with that side effect of legalizing currently illegal
>immigration?  Shouldn't every worker have safe working conditions, etc.?
> 

Nothing is wrong with the side effect of making the work place safe/fair
for all employees.  But when this nation can't employ all of its own, why
must the government make it easier to employ aliens, let alone illegal
aliens?  The government should crack down hard on these employers who are
creating the demand for illegal alien "slave labor."  It is not the illegal
aliens fault (must add this for people who assume I am victim blaming) for
crossing the border, because they are doing what any human being would do
when face with their options (illegal employment in the US is better than 
no or bad employment).  If the government cracks down on the employers, 
the demand for illegal employees will drop, and so will the flow of illegal
aliens.  


========================================================================
| Michael F. Kamprath                   | The University of Michigan   |
|   kamprath@space-grant.sprl.umich.edu |      Aerospace Engineering   |
|   kamprath@engin.umich.edu            |                              |
|---------------------------------------+------------------------------+
|       And if a man can't change the world these days,                |
|       I still believe he can change his own destiny.                 |
|                                 --Michael Peters (The Alarm)         |
|                                   "The Spirit of '76"                |
========================================================================
Newsgroups: soc.culture.asian.american
From: nbyram@ocf.berkeley.edu (Nicholas Byram)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.asian.american
Subject: Re: Group Rights vs. Individual Rights / Group Power vs. Individual Power
Date: 17 Aug 1992 19:09:44 GMT
Organization: Berkeley Political Communization Facility, sentence extension.
Distribution: usa
NNTP-Posting-Host: planecrash.berkeley.edu

In article <SHAW.92Aug12082736@whopper.lcs.mit.edu> shaw@whopper.lcs.mit.edu (Andy Shaw) writes:
>
>What I don't have is "power", or rather, what I want MORE of is power.
>"Rights" are a nice thing to have, but they only guarantee a floor which I
>cannot fall beneath.  They cannot propel me upward, and they cannot
>guarantee that my rights will be upheld.  Only power can do that.

I have no problem with this. But I do have a problem with mealy-mouthed
sniveling neo-communists like you who want to gain power by theft,
defamation of others, or political balckmail.

You want power? Try EARNING it. It's a lot like wealth. In fact, much
of power is wealth.


Nick Byram 
Academic Multi-culturalism is the New Communist Propaganda.
Peel away the "People of Color" rhetoric, and we only find one color--Red.