HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: dfs@doe.carleton.ca (David F. Skoll)
Subject: Jordanian emissary tours Israel
Keywords: Good news, for once.
Organization: Dept. of Electronics, Carleton University
Date: Mon, 13 Apr 1992 13:23:00 GMT

From "The Globe and Mail", 10 April 1992:

JERUSALEM(AP) -- A royal Jordanian polo pony that threw its trainer
and swam to Israel was send back home yesterday, carrying a plea from
schoolchildren to King Hussein for peace.  The army transported the
grey gelding to Yotvata, about 38 kilometres north of the Israeli port
of Eilat, and turned him over to a United Nations officer, who led him
to waiting Jordanian soldiers.

The horse, owned by Crown Prince Hassan, the brother of King Hussein,
galloped into the sea at the Jordanian port of Aqaba on Tuesday and
swam ashore at Eilat.  The wayward horse was stabled during his visit
to Israel, and was befriended by children, who comed, fed and rode the
pony.

[What a great story compared to Hezbollah, Sharon, war, hate, etc...]

--
                     |         | "Step up and shake the hand
David F. Skoll       | ||||||| |  Of someone you can't stand,
|_ _ _  __   __ _ __ |  \\V//  |  You can tolerate him if you try..."
 / |  | |_|   | |  | |  __|__  |  -- Tom Lehrer, "National Brotherhood Week"
_____|________________________________________________________________________
Xref: sparky talk.politics.mideast:10992 talk.politics.soviet:3464 soc.culture.greek:3371
From: han@anadolu.michigan.com (hasan.b.mutlu)
Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast,talk.politics.soviet,soc.culture.greek
Subject: Are 'Kebab' And 'History' An Integral Part Of The...,'Joni?'
Date: 16 Apr 92 22:34:00 GMT


<1992Apr15.191433.1390@mits.mdata.fi>
jjj@mits.mdata.fi (Joni Jarvenkyla)

>I already stopped going to kebab restaurants owned by Turkish people.
>Shame. I loved those kebabs. But that Mutlu is just such a pissant that
>it gives me great weird pleasure to discriminate any Turkish while he's
>not around.

You seem to imply that 'kebab' and 'history' are an integral part of
the pro-Turkish mental framework. Is it really your intent to make
such a statement, 'Joni?' Perhaps your overly sensitized nose is now
able to distinguish the sweet redolence of the bouquet of spices that
are waiting. Your 'iki bucuk yogurtlu' is totally complete now.

Hasan B-) Mutlu

                     'Kill Turks and Kurds wherever you find them 
                      and in whatever circumstances you find them. 
                      Turkish children also should be killed as 
                      they form a danger to the Armenian nation.' 
                                     (Hamparsum Boyadjian - 1914)
Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast
From: gmeltzne@jarthur.claremont.edu (manu)
Subject: Re: Jordan is Palestine
Organization: Harvey Mudd College, Claremont, CA 91711
Date: Fri, 17 Apr 1992 00:50:41 GMT

In article <2809@copper.Denver.Colorado.EDU> aaldoubo@copper.denver.colorado.edu (Anisa Alnoor Aldoubosh) writes:
>In article<1992Apr11.084900.16219@newshost.anu.edu.au> bdm@cs.anu.edu.au writes:
>>
>>I think I owe you an apology, PeeWee.  I looked up Johnny Rabbit's
>>Picture History of the Lands of the Bible and it agreed with you!
>>Looks like all those snooty academics got it wrong!  1000 pardons.
>
>Or I kiss your hand 1000 times. (And only if you use Channel #5 Pour
>Monsieur).  :)

	How about Egoiste?  Uhh, by the way, Chanel #5 is for women, and
is different than Pour Monsieur.  :)




							-Manu

>
>Strange how rivals are being civil to each other.  :)  Been listening to
>"From A Distance" too many times?  Can make a pacifist/apologist out of
>anyone. :)
>
>But Philip, habibi, Palestine is always going to be Palestine!
>
>asinA (:
>
>		"From a distance there is harmony, and it echos throughout
>		the land.  And its the hope of hopes, its the love of loves,
>		its the heart of every man.  Its the hope of hopes, its the
>		love of loves.  This is the song of every man."
>
>				"From A Distance" B.Midler


-- 
Email: gmeltzne@jarthur.claremont.edu            
Do unto others before they do unto you.
"The future of the Arabs of Palestine was sacrificed to Egyptian politics"
						-Sir John Bagot Glubb
From: arild@milan.philosophie.uni-stuttgart.de (Arild Hestvik)
Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast
Subject: Lowenbrau houses revisionist and Neo-Nazi meeting in Germany
Date: 15 Apr 92 16:51:27 GMT
Article-I.D.: milan.ARILD.92Apr15185223
Reply-To: arild@adler.philosophie.uni-stuttgart.de
Organization: IMS, University of Stuttgart, Germany

On the German TV-station Suedwest 3 last night, they showed a disturbing
program about the neo-nazi movement in Germany. Part of the program was
about revisionist meetings held in Germany, where the "historian" Irving
was participating. I think it was on Hitler's birthday in 1990: A big
gathering in Loewenbrau's brewery beer hall in Munich hosted Irving and
several prominent neo-nazi leaders in Germany. The German national anthem
was sung, liters of beer were guzzled and Sieg Heil greetings eagerly
issued. 

This should show clearly the connection between revisionism and the
neo-nazi movement, which has been frequently denied by b-cpu posters.

Furthermore, perhaps time to boycott Lowenbrau? To see that they would make
their space available for this disgusting event is highly questionable.

-Arild Hestvik
Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast
From: bc744@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Mark Ira Kaufman)
Subject: Re: Anti-semitism...
Organization: Case Western Reserve University, Cleveland, Ohio, (USA)
Date: Thu, 9 Apr 92 18:13:17 GMT


The etomology of a word generally impacts little on the usage once
that word has established itself in the language.  Although anti-Arab
bigotry in America is on the rise, it is unlikely that this bigotry
will ever be described as anti-semitism.  When analyzing the origin
of a word or phrase, the denotation must never obscure the connotation.
The word 'nice' is a perfect example.  The word originally was used to
describe someone who was probably mentally impaired.  This meaning has
completely disappeared, to be repalced by the one that 'nice' now has.
Dictatorship of the majority in word usage will always win.  Although
I have spent much effort in explaining to people that 'loan' is NOT a
verb, but 'lend' is.  My efforts have fallen on deaf ears.  Perhaps we
will soon hear, "Friends, Romans, and countrymen.  Loan me your ears."
Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast
From: bjag@casbah.acns.nwu.edu (Bharathi Jagadeesh)
Subject: Re: Borrowing Money for Israel????
Keywords: Money
Organization: Northwestern University, Evanston, Illinois
Date: Thu, 9 Apr 1992 19:11:59 GMT


That Israel is our largest (or second largest) recipient of aid is
inexcusable, given that Israel is a high income company (w/ a GNP/capita of
>9000 dollars) which ranks it as among the richest countries in the world.

In spite of that the attempted proof in the Collins article is so false
that to use the data supplied here would be questionable. 

The US donates about 7 billion dollars per year in official development
assistance to all countries. This amount comes to 0.02% of the US GNP. This
sum is so negligible that its ridiculous to suggest that it could be
responsible for American _huge_ national debt. 

I am ignoring military aid in this figure (only development aid is
included) but even adding military aid would do little to the fact that
foreign aid only acounts for 0.02% of the national GNP.

Oppose Israeli aid because it is not in the US's best interest to support a
country that pursues a political path we disagree with, because it is
ethically wrong to financially support a country that violates the
fundamental human rights of so many people, and because it is
unconscionable on humanatarian grounds to give such large amounts of aid to
one of the richest countries in the world, while the real poor suffer in
so many other countries. But don't lie about how much it costs us. 
-- 
Bharathi Jagadeesh/bjag@nwu.edu
Who is that who mumbles in the dark/ who is it that draws his veil across the
stars/ Langston Hughes
Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast
From: bdm@cs.anu.edu.au (Brendan McKay)
Subject: Re: WHAT I MEAN!
Reply-To: bdm@cs.anu.edu.au
Organization: Australian National University
Date: Fri, 10 Apr 92 07:50:44 GMT

In article 15953@bony1.bony.com, jake@bony1.bony.com (Jake Livni) writes:
>In article <1992Apr6.063011.12365@newshost.anu.edu.au> bdm@cs.anu.edu.au writes:
>>
>>In article 16840@usenet.ins.cwru.edu, bc744@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Mark Ira Kaufman) writes:
>>>
>>>   When I made a statement about what is actually Jordan, I was
>>>not precise enough for many of you to know what I meant.  Today
>>>what we refer to as Jordan contains much more land that could
>>>be called Palestine than all of Israel.  
>>
>>Not you too!  This a MYTH.  
>
>Not you, again.  You're a KOOK!

Not you, yet again.  You're a RATBAG!

>>>So I feel that the drive
>>>for a homeland for the Palestinians must include some land that
>>>is currently called Jordan.  If one does not acknowledge ALL of 
>>>the historical Palestine, then the drive for a homeland for the
>>>Palestinians again takes on an anti-Israel hue.  When the drive
>>>for a Palestinian state does not include land that is currently
>>>in Jordan, this is not fair to Israel and, by logical extention,
>>>will never be well received by Israel.
>>
>>If the self-defined group which today calls itself "The Palestinians"
>>includes a large number of people whose roots (not just refugee
>>status) are on the east of the Jordan River, then it is reasonable
>>that they include that fraction of Jordan in their land claims.
>>You haven't established the "if" part, so the "then" part is not
>>yet imperative.    
>
>The "if" HAS been established.  

Sorry, I must have missed it.

>                                Otherwise, why are no land concessions 
>being demanded of Jordan in the current peace/land talks? 

If you keep arguing so vigorously against your own claims, 
why do I need to?

>                                                            Why is 
>Jordan permitted to reach peace with Palestineans by driving tens
>of thousands of them to refuge in Lebanon, 

They aren't permitted to.  

>                                           with nary a word of 
>re-compensation of their stolen land, 

They predominantly came from west of the Jordan, so you had
better be careful with this argument.
 
>                                           while Israel is being asked 
>to reach peace via land-concessions?
>
>If the Palestinean Arabs get land from Israel without getting their
>land back from Jordan, there will STILL be no peace in the Middle East.
>And it won't be Israel's fault.

Is there anything for which you recognise Israel's fault?

>Jake Livni

Brendan.
From: bjag@casbah.acns.nwu.edu (Bharathi Jagadeesh)
Subject: Re: Borrowing Money for Israel????
Keywords: Money
Organization: Northwestern University, Evanston, Illinois
Date: Thu, 9 Apr 1992 21:46:44 GMT


I just posted an article where I stated that the US's foreign aid was 0.02%
of the GNP. This is incorrect. It should have been 0.15% of the GNP. The US
contributes about 7.6 billion dollars in official development assistance to
all countries.  

The rest of the article is still the same, just the exact figure was wrong. 
-- 
Bharathi Jagadeesh/bjag@nwu.edu
Who is that who mumbles in the dark/ who is it that draws his veil across the
stars/ Langston Hughes
From: friedenb@sapphire.egr.msu.edu (Gedaliah Friedenberg)
Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast
Subject: STOP REVISIONISM ON TPM
Date: 10 Apr 92 20:36:40 GMT
Reply-To: friedenb@egr.msu.edu (Gedaliah Friedenberg)
Organization: College of Engineering, Michigan State University



I think that it is about time that ANYONE who wishes to post ANYTHING regarding 
Holocaust revisionism start using alt.revisionism!  


If someone feels the need to respond to a revisionist article posted in TPM, 
just post the response in alt.revisionism.


I'm sick of having to weed through all of the revisionist posts to find the 
posts on Middle East Politics!!!!


THE ALT.REVISIONISM IS THERE FOR A REASON---- USE IT!!!!!!



Gedaliah Friedenberg
Department of Mechanical Engineering 
Michigan State University 
Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast
From: bc744@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Mark Ira Kaufman)
Subject: DEDICATED TO THE REVISIONOIDS!
Organization: Case Western Reserve University, Cleveland, Ohio, (USA)
Date: Mon, 13 Apr 92 18:45:13 GMT


                     YOU ARE A FLUKE OF THE UNIVERSE
                     YOU HAVE NO RIGHT TO BE HERE.
                     AND WHETHER YOU CAN HEAR IT OR NOT,
                     THE UNIVERSE IS LAUGHING BEHIND YOUR BACK!


                            Best wishes,
       
                            your pal Mark
From: bdm@cs.anu.edu.au (Brendan McKay)
Subject: Re: OCCUPIED(?) LANDS!
Reply-To: bdm@cs.anu.edu.au
Organization: Australian National University
Date: Fri, 10 Apr 92 04:45:14 GMT

In article 17006@bony1.bony.com, jake@bony1.bony.com (Jake Livni) writes:
>
>Brendan is getting testy.  This is probably the result of my attacking his
>pet Israel-Is-Palestine theory.

Here's a challenge for you, Jake:  Find one (ONE) professional historian
anywhere in the world who denies that the area of Israel north of the
Negev has been considered part of Palestine for at least a couple of
centuries.  For a warm-up exercise, find one professional mathematician
who believes that 1+1=3.

>In article <1992Apr5.075512.2458@newshost.anu.edu.au> bdm@cs.anu.edu.au writes:
>>In article 6697@bony1.bony.com, jake@bony1.bony.com (Jake Livni) writes:
>>>In article <...> bdm@cs.anu.edu.au writes:
>>>>In article ..., jake@bony1.bony.com (Jake Livni) writes:
>>>>>In article <...> bdm@cs.anu.edu.au writes:
>>>>>>In article ..., jake@bony1.bony.com (Jake Livni) writes:
>>>>>>>In article <...> bdm@cs.anu.edu.au writes:
>>>>>>>>In article ..., bc744@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Mark Ira Kaufman) writes:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>The historical Palestine is not
>>>>>>>>>Israel, but Jordan.  
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>Complete fantasy.  This is pure myth, without the slightest
>>>>>>>>historical justification.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>You cannot deny that Palestine included Jordan.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Mark's claim is much stronger than yours.  _Nobody_ doubts that 
>>>>>>Palestine included all of the current area of Israel with the
>>>>>>possible exception of the Negev south of Beersheva.  
>>>>>
>>>>>These 2 statements seem to be contradictory.  (I don't see how misattribution
>>>>>could have caused this.)
>>>>
>>>>I can't see the contradiction.  
>>>
>>>You previously wrote:
>>>  >>>Mark's claim is much stronger than yours.  
>>>
>>>If his claim:
>>>  >>>>>>The historical Palestine is not
>>>  >>>>>>Israel, but Jordan.  
>>>is much stronger than mine, then I rest my case here.
>>
>>What case?  I have been completely consistent, and any contradictions
>>you think you have found are entirely inside your head.
>
>So then let me use the words that you have so strongly endorsed:

Huh?  I think you don't understand the sentence 
">Mark's claim is much stronger than yours."  
The claim "A = B" is much stronger than the claim "A subset B".

>"The historical Palestine is not Israel, but Jordan."
>Might you see it more clearly if I wrote it in Strine instead on English?

My apologies.  I thought you only believed Palestine to have INCLUDED 
Jordan, not that it EQUALLED Jordan.  The reason I made this mistake
is that I could not bring myself to believe (until now) that you were
either so incredibly ignorant or so incredibly dishonest.  (Which is it,
by the way?)

>Jake Livni

Brendan.



Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast
From: gross@befvax.uchicago.edu
Subject: Re: How Occupied Is Jerusalem?
Reply-To: gross@befvax.uchicago.edu
Organization: University of Chicago, Dept of Molecular Genetics
Date: Fri, 10 Apr 1992 17:49:34 GMT

In article <1992Apr10.151107.18636@ncsu.edu>, hernlem@chess.ncsu.EDU (Brad Hernlem) writes:
>(For those of you who think that the use of "occupied" when describing
>Jerusalem is merely political:)
>
>TO TURN JEWS INTO A MAJORITY IN EAST JERUSALEM
>
>ISRAEL STEPS UP SETTLEMENT ACTIVITY
>
>OCCUPIED JERUSALEM, April 4 (R) -- The Palestinian mechanics glare at

Maybee I dont reeed vury goot, 

But please tell me where in the article it said anything about making
Jews a majority in East Jerusalem

>[Arab News, April 5, 1992]

Leon Gross
I'm not an actor, but I play one on TV.
Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast
From: gummitch@techbook.com (Jeff Frane)
Subject: Re: Want facts? "WHO RUNS THE MEDIA? The A
Organization: TECHbooks of Beaverton Oregon - Public Access Unix
Date: Wed, 15 Apr 1992 20:36:24 GMT

bdm@cs.anu.edu.au (Brendan McKay) writes:


>In article 7095@techbook.com, gummitch@techbook.com (Jeff Frane) writes:
>>jime@bullwinkle.atc.ll.mit.edu (Jim Eggert x6127 g41) writes:
>>
>>>In article <1992Apr13.203813.19355@techbook.com> gummitch@techbook.com (Jeff Frane) writes:
>>>>   ># >	   What the world community considered it was irelevent.  How would
>>>>   ># >   you like it if the world community refused to recognize your property
>>>>   ># >   rights to your own home?  
>>>>   > 
>>>>   This is a very good question.  Turn it around, Makowsky, how would you
>>>>   feel if you were a Palestinian Arab in Jaffa in 1947.  The United
>>>>   Nations tells you that your home is actually in the Jewish state. How
>>>>   would you like it?
>>
>>>Right question, wrong locality.  Jaffa was in fact in the Arab
>>>partition.  It was attacked by the Irgun; its Arab residents fled
>>>under mortar attack.  British attempts to regain the city failed.
>>>Jaffa was once the largest Arab city between Cairo and Beirut, no more.
>>>--
>>According to maps in two books I have in front of me, Jaffa/Tel Aviv
>>were clearly within the domain of the Jewish State, as defined by the
>>1947 UN proposal.  The Jewish Agency's 1946 proposal did offer a
>>corridor from the inland Arab State to the coast at Jaffa, but this was
>>not included in the UN plan.  See, for example, Michael Cohen's The
>>Origins and Evolution of the Arab-Zionist Conflict, p. 128, map 5.
>>
>>--Jeff

>No, Jaffa was NOT in the area of the Jewish State proposed by 
>the UNGA.  I don't have time to look up your map, but I have 
>the full text of the UNGA resolution beside me.

>One possible source of confusion here: the UN resolution was 
>based largely on the recommendations of the U.N. Special
>Commission on Palestine.  The UNSCOP report placed Jaffa in
>the Jewish sector, but the UNGA moved it into the Arab sector,
>presumably because the population was predominantly Arab.


>Brendan.

I concede to being confused.  Cohen's book which was published by the
University of California Press, has the map as I described.  There is no
reference given for the map information (which is identical to the one
in The Birth of Israel, Flapan, Pantheon).  Cohen includes the UN
Resolution on the Partition of Palestine, 29 Nov 1947 but unfortunately
omits the boundary descriptions from Parts II and III.

Someone ought to talk to these mapmakers.

Obviously, when I made my original comment to Makowsky I should have
chosen Haifa for my example -- but whatever city is in question, I think
the original point is valid.

I have yet to see a response from Makowsky.

--Jeff 

-- 
gummitch@techbook.COM  Public Access UNIX at (503) 644-8135 (1200/2400) 
"Where the press is free and every man able to read, all is safe."
                                    --Thomas Jefferson
Organization: TECHNION - Israel Institute of Technology.
Date: Wednesday, 8 Apr 1992 09:51:52 IST
From: Uri Zakai <RPR1ZAK@TECHNION.BITNET>
Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast
Subject: Re: Death Squads in Occupied Territories
 <1992Apr6.182432.27791@cs.brown.edu>

In article <1992Apr6.182432.27791@cs.brown.edu>, dzk@cs.brown.edu (Danny Keren)
says:
>
>The people who are murdered are people who cooperate with Israel,
>and Israel has no reason to want them dead. Palestinian extremists
>do, and they kill them brutaly.
>
>I don't know the current number, but in March the NY Times gave the number
>of Palestinians killed by Palestinians as 54. It is three time more
>than the number of people killed by the IDF in riots
>
>-Danny Keren.

well the number of palestinians killed by other palestinians since january 1
is 55 - 23 of them were killed on march - 9 were killed last week .

it is a much larger number then the one of palestinians killed by israelis ,
and if we   add the fact that those who are killed by other palestinians
are usually weaponless , and are hacked up with axes etc - usually in
broad day light , you have to wonder how come nobody protest against it.

do they care about palestinian life or maybe they only care about
"what do evil israeli's do ? "

btw im sure you all heared about the attack on the israeli army convoy in
s.lebanon , im sure you all know that the terrorists picked a house
which was adjacent to a house full of children and woman as their attack
post , and actually held them hostage.

when the israeli forces realised who lives there they stoped their fire
towards that house - and the terrorists hope failed

can you imagine the headline if some kid would have died .. "another brave
kid goes willingly to his death to end israeli occupation "
i guess its all in a day's work .

uri zakai

Xref: sparky talk.politics.mideast:10374 soc.culture.turkish:4011 talk.politics.soviet:3271 soc.history:3485
From: barrak@tramp.Colorado.EDU (HADI MOHAMMED F)
Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast
Subject: Re: EXAMPLES, PLEASE!
Date: 7 Apr 92 06:16:36 GMT
Organization: University of Colorado, Boulder

In article <1992Apr4.173327.14708@usenet.ins.cwru.edu> bc744@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Mark Ira Kaufman) writes:
> >
> >regarding this issue can come out of it.  The fact is that NO Arab 
> >leader has yet to claim that any particular terrorist act against
> >Jews is intolerable.  As we say in America, put up or shut up!

In his "Seize the Moment," Nixon wrote the following:

"We must also accept the fact that at times it does not serve our
interests for our friends in the Muslim world to support our positions
on issues that are highly sensitive politically in their countries.
When the United States bombed Libya in April 1986 in retaliation for
terrorest attacks against American servicemen, many leaders in the
region denounced us publicly but cheered us in private."

This may not be comforting to you but you have to understand that
those leaders rule people who in general grew up to love to hate jews
in general and Israel in particular. They cannot afford to be
sympathetic or even fair to you, especially those who cast themselves
as the "protectors" of the Arab world like Saddam and Assad or the
"protectors" of Islam like King Fahad and the Iranian clergy.

Let us hope for another Sadat to emerge soon. Someone who is brave
enough to take crucial and clear cut decisions towards a fair
settlement.

---barrak