From: nigel@rs733.GSFC.NASA.Gov
Subject: Re: Shadowrun: Controlling magicians
Organization: Goddard Space Flight Center, Greenbelt, Md, USA
	<1992Apr14.201111.6482@ulowell.ulowell.edu>
	<0dv6v5q00WAuQ94Vkd@andrew.cmu.edu>
	<1992Apr15.220726.13571@ulowell.ulowell.edu>
Date: Thu, 16 Apr 1992 00:55:14 GMT

In article <1992Apr15.220726.13571@ulowell.ulowell.edu> rcashman@cs.ulowell.edu (The Jester) writes:

>>	Sigh. I haven't been following this thread, but let me indicate why
>>they are discussing such things:

>That wasn't the point.  The point was that they had beat the topic to death.

Not at all...there are many other ways that the Matrix can come about.
Each one has different implications on how the world works and why.
Understanding how the things work gives you and edge...which is what
SR is all about.  If you don't care then stick the topic in your kill
file.

[more deleted]

>Lookit.  By their NATURE, to play in ANY RPG, you have to suspend that
>little voice in the back of your head that says, "This isn't real."  The
>whole point of an RPG is to take part in something fantastic, some kind
>of adventure that you, personally, could NEVER have.  So excuse me if
>I don't buy this.  If you're going to question the way the Matrix works,
>why not question the way magic works in a fantasy game?  Or why energy

I don't accept bogus concepts (like putting every ^&%& computer on the
net) any more than I accept that a crossbow in DND cannot kill a high
level fighter or that a light pistol stuck to your head and fired
can't kill you in SR.  The question in many cases is why all these
systems are on the net...once you get an answer that sort of works you
then have the opprotunity to decide which systems make sense to have
there and which systems don't.

[more deleted] 

>>	Reality testing allows you to suspend disbelief, and allows you to come
>>up with ideas. The worst thing in a game is not to be able to come up
>>with ideas because the background has contradictions or makes no sense. 

>I don't see the background as being contradictory or false.  The story told
>was simply that computers got advanced enough so this beast called the Matrix
>exists and flourishes.

Right...explain why all systems are there if they don't need to be?  A
PC exec may simply say...my corp isn't going to be on the net except
for one node.  Everything else gets SneakerNetted over to the local
cluster once an hour...this advantage in being decker proof gives the
corp a great advantage over the opposition.  Espcially when those
idiots put security computers on the friggin net so some coyboy can
pat them on the head and totally nullify millions in security hardware.

>>Or-
>>"No, you can't do that."
>>"Why?"
>>
>1) Because it hasn't been done, and someone would have thought of it.
>>(ie- reality flaw)
>>2) Because it would destroy the world (ie- you invent a completely new
>>use of /bla/ which revolutionizes everything = reality flaw)
>>3) Because it would destroy the game (ie- you become lord of the
>>universe in a relatively easy way which no one's thought of before =
>>reality flaw)

>If any one of these little problems are rearing their heads in the first
>place, you have a very twisted way of gaming.

No...it merely means that we have players who have two brain cells to
bang together.  Example from above: players must break into super
secret facility...pretty standard SR scenario.  Decker goes in and
gets floor plan.  Why not...all the computers are on the net...it says
so in the rules.  Decker goes in and tells security monitors in
section A to ignore you.  Once again...that pesky security computer is
on the net.  Runners trapse though doging the occasional human guard.
Ooops vault door.  Well...the vault door computer is on the net
right...says so in the book.  No problem.  Door opens.

So where's the challenge?  Oh...the security computers aren't on the
net.  Why?  Uhhh...it makes the scenario too easy?  

The fun for a lot of players isn't the shoot'em till they stop moving
but in solving the problem in new and interesting ways.  You can't do
that unless you have a decent amount of info.

'Sides...who are you to judge whether or not our form of gaming is
twisted?  I happen to think that twisted campaings are more fun than
the more mundane hack and slash anyway.

>Brett Cashman (The Jester)			    	rcashman@cs.ulowell.edu
--
Nigel Tzeng
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