From: werner@cs.utexas.edu (Werner Uhrig)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.german
Subject: Re: Violence update 30.09.92 (re: Heiner Biesel)
Date: 8 Oct 1992 17:50:45 -0500
Organization: CS Dept, University of Texas at Austin
NNTP-Posting-Host: dimebox.cs.utexas.edu


 biesel@javelin.sim.es.com (Heiner Biesel) writes:

>.. but rather at Deborah's plea that those of us living elsewhere should
> petition our government to protest "...this completely insensitive
> behavior...". The US, in particular, has little moral authority to do
> so, given its utilization of the fruits of Peenemuende. Protests against
> this celebration should arise in Germany, if at all. Righteous
> indignation elsewhere, no matter how well founded, will be ignored, if
> not resented by the Germans.

	I beg to differ, Heiner....

	I'm living elsewhere, and bringing up US (who is that? current
	government?  any citizen? anyone who lives here?!?) "moral
	authority" is about as misplaced an argument as I can think of.

	and  "...should arise, if at all"  is a mind-set that, to me,
	is COMPLETELY UNACCEPTABLE !!

	Deborah had written:

>> >Complain to your governmental officers! Other countries *must* protest
>> >this completely insensitive behavior of the German government!

	and you (Heiner) responded

>> Why?

	well, the reason, Heiner, is the same as for my "objecting"
	to your argument:  because one cares !!

>> It is commonplace in other countries to celebrate the Nth anniversary
>> of some significant weapon system, never mind the fact that it killed
>> many people. How, for example, can the US protest "...this completely
>> insensitive behavior..." when it went ot some trouble to find and employ
>> the technical people responsible for the V-2? The A-bomb explosion at
>> Alamagordo rates an anniversary, and a plaque, why not the V-2?

	Heiner, was it REALLY necessary for <someone> to point out to you,
	that "one wrong doesn't mean the next one should remain unopposed,"
	and, while still irrelevant, Deborah and I (and others) also
	probably would like to encourage everyone to protest against
	glorifying war and atrocity connected activities ANYWHERE.
	And last, don't you accept it, at least for the rest of this century,
	that Germany and Germans are "of particular interest and concern" to
	the rest of the world?!?

	Come on, now, don't be dense;  one can question if Deborah is
	"a bit overwrought" or if she is making any efforts to influence
	US policies also (maybe a violence update for LA and NY?!?)...
	...BUT, she is living in Berlin, is making a credible effort and
	performs an apreciated service by posting information (and
	opinions) so cut her some slack, eh?!?

	...and besides, Deborah would probably not object to similar suggestions
	and US-activities -- should I, for example,  decide to warn and inform
	about "violence in Texas" (police, racial, otherwise...); or would you
	like to hear about "Star War in Texas" ?!?  well, not in this group...

	..or how about when 5 (FIVE) Austin policemen over-powered a Nigerian
	student on his water-bed and suffocated him, sitting on him "to sub-due
	his struggling" HAND-CUFFED and all.... just think of your own last
	three minutes struggling for air ....
	...and got away with it; did not even go a trial, not a black mark on
	their record.  Amazing, isn't it ?!?

	Or how come Mexicans and Blacks get shot in the back or (accidentally)
	drowned, or fall out of the car with amazing (ir)regularity....

	how about the treatment of Haitians?  would you REALLY like to argue
	that US-citizens (and residents) have no right to voice concern for
	what is going on in Germany?  Or would you rather join me (and Deborah,
	allow me to presume) in the suggestion that that deserves a concerned
	protest also ?!?

	I mean, are we living on the same planet in the same century ?!?
-- 
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