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Date:         Fri, 14 Aug 1992 16:02:28 EDT
Reply-To:     Bill McGarry <wtm@sheldev.shel.isc-br.com>
From:         Bill McGarry <wtm@sheldev.shel.isc-br.com>
Subject:      Handicap Digest # 2870
X-To:         LHCAP <l-hcap@VM1.NODAK.EDU>

                             THE HANDICAP DIGEST

                                 Issue # 2870

                          Thursday, August 13, 1992

Today's Topics:


                                ******

                           Blink Talk Digest # 681

                               Re: Nls And Nfb
                          Re: nfb bbs censorship??
                               Re: Nls And Nfb
                            Nfb Bbs Censorship??
                      Kurzweil Personal Reader For Sale
                    Voice Output on PC tied to MainFrame
                         Accent synthesizer question
                                  Re: list
                           Re: nls book selection
                            Re: fighting tactics
                            Re: nerves and injury


                                ******


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------



Subject: Re: Nls And Nfb
From: Gary.Petraccaro@f12.n2610.z1.fidonet.org (Gary Petraccaro)
Organization: FidoNet node 1:2610/12 - Post Road Inn, Greensburg PA


[This is from the Blink Talk Conference]

 CA> Yes, Dan, the NLS surely is idiotic about its book
 CA> selection.  They seem to go for the lowest possible
 CA> common denominator.  They record or braille all
 CA> twenty-odd of the Western Ho series, but don't
 CA> complete Sarah Paretsky's mysteries.

They don't have all of a lot of people's mysteries or sf.  That
includes Robert B. Parker, John D. MacDonald, Ross McDonald, the
Dave Brandstetter series from Hansen, Poul Anderson--lots of
stuff.

--
Uucp: ..!uunet!bunker!hcap!hnews!2610!12!Gary.Petraccaro
Internet: Gary.Petraccaro@f12.n2610.z1.fidonet.org




------



Subject: Re: nfb bbs censorship??
From: Gary.Petraccaro@f12.n2610.z1.fidonet.org (Gary Petraccaro)
Organization: FidoNet node 1:2610/12 - Post Road Inn, Greensburg PA


[This is from the Blink Talk Conference]

 CC> I have been a member of one of the organizations,
 CC> albeit breifly.  I did
 CC> not feel that I, or the local group was
 CC> accomplishing enough to warrant
 CC> the time and effort it took to participate.

 WS> Did you give as much time to that as you did as an individual?

I don't understand this one.  Why should one give as much time to
doing one thing as to doing another if it's obvious that that one
thing just isn't working?

 CC> Just because I do not consider that either of the organizations
 CC> represents my views or needs does not mean that I do not express my
 CC> views and needs in other ways.  True, it would be a more powerful
 CC> expression with the strength of numbers behind it,

 WS> Since you realize that, why didn't you spend a little
 WS> more effort to working through the organization
 WS> towards your changes, and after you gave up one of
 WS> them, did you try the other?

Doesn't this depend on what changes she wants?  For example, why
would a Libertarian spend as much time with the Democrats as the
Republicans?  If the Republicans wouldn't move toward
Libertarianism, why, in fact, try the Democrats at all?

 CC>but as it is, I feel
 CC> that the energy I have available to spend on blindness issues
 CC> accomplishes more in the way of getting *my*
 CC> opinions heard than would
 CC> that same energy if I spent it with one of the
 CC> organizations.  I am one
 CC> voice, but I am one voice speaking my own words.

 WS> As you aggreed that numbers would be heard a lot
 WS> sooner than one individual.  While speaking out as an
 WS> individual is better than not speaking out at all,
 WS> does that make it energy efficient?

Yes.  If I can say 100 percent of what I want with time X versus 50
percent of what I want from within an organization with the same
time, which is more efficient?  The other 50 percent must also be
taken into account, remember.

 CC>I do not like the notion of taking a free ride on the
 CC> efforts of others any more than you do.  I certainly appreciate the
 CC> countless hours and abundant energy which has
 CC> gone into legislation and
 CC> PR -- the work done by both of the major organizations in the past--
 CC> from which I now benefit.  (As you noted, for
 CC> example, I have only been
 CC> using a dog guide for nine years-- well I know
 CC> that it was once far more
 CC> challenging than it now is, however.) I have done my reading and my
 CC> talking and my listening.

 CC> That work was not done, however, for my gratitude, nor was it
 CC> undertaken with a view to "paying" others to
 CC> undertake different causes
 CC> down the road.  It was done to accomplish what it accomplished.

 WS> That is correct, but if we don't keep a watch on it,
 WS> we can loose it, and as individuals, it is hard to
 WS> keep a watch on all of the things that would concern
 WS> us.

Yes.  But, as an individual, my interests have more to do with the
state of the country as a whole then they do with blindness.  E.G.,
a socialized medical system might increase costs enough to endanger
the NLS program.  That's not necessarily a blindness issue.  I
might have to pick which was more important.

 CC> I do appreciate waht has been done for me by
 CC> others. That doesn't mean,
 CC> however, that I feel that the work being done
 CC> today by the organizations
 CC> is as meaningful to me as the work which was done in the past.

 WS> Well, how can it get that way again, if we don't take
 WS> part and fight to get it that way again?

No, Walter.  Once I have the right to vote, I don't need another
right to vote.  I may need to watch which things people choose to
vote upon, however.  I will need to make certain I don't lose that
right, you're right about that.

 CC> I do rather resent your painting an image of me as a thankless young
 CC> person (I'm twenty-seven, for the record), riding
 CC> on the accomplishments
 CC> of others.

 WS> I didn't mean to imply that you are thankless, I was
 WS> trying to say that if the young people of today, don't
 WS> get involved, that we can go backwards.

As I said above, you're right.  I'd like you to consider that such
an attempt at betterment as the A.D.A. might have the paradoxical
effect of driving us backwards.  If you lived in Pittsburgh, you'd
know what I mean.  This is an intensely unionized and pro-union
area.  That should come as no surprise, since we have both steel,
and coal, as well as other manufacturing companies around here
which had a lot to do with the development of this region.  Now,
however,that unionism has struck both newspapers, our major food
chain, and our public transit.  The bus fares will rise, we don't
know what will happen with the papers, and I wouldn't count on the
food store chain putting up with this again,and it's the largest
one left.  We hard up for jobs, Sony comes in, and it too has a
strike on it's hands, now.  Sorry, Walter, I like one milkshake,
but, 5?

...

                                                          CC>I repeat that I do
 not believe, however, that
 CC> this is what either of the two major organizations are currently
 CC> *doing*.

 WS> Since you only tried one of the organizations, then
 WS> how do you know what the other would do.  Btw, just
 WS> because one local chapter does not suit you, how about
 WS> being a part of the national one?

Like you're still a member of the N>F.B.?  What would you do if the
A.C.B. began to emulate them?

 CC> The things which I feel to be the important
 CC> issues today (employment,
 CC> equal access to education, public perceptions and
 CC> attitudes) are either
 CC> not being actively addressed by the organizations
 CC> or are being addressed
 CC> in ways which I believe to be either counter-productive or
 CC> inappropriate.

 WS> How do you know that?  You only can go by what you
 WS> hear since you are not a part of either.

But, that's what the N.F.B. could say any time you expressed an
opinion on what they did.  You would tell them, I suppose, that you
could read their literature and had people you knew in the
organization with whom you spoke and who familiarized you with the
group's positions and reasoning.  That's all Carla has to say.

 CC>To return to the dog guide example: I certainly would
 CC> have put my energy into promoting freedom of
 CC> access to public places for
 CC> dog guide users.  But, just as I would not have
 CC> dedicated myself to a
 CC> movement to allow dog guides to sit in airplane seats or eat at
 CC> restraunt tables or which would have required that public facilities
 CC> provide kennels for them to be kept in outside, I
 CC> will not put my energy
 CC> into promoting what I feel are often unwise or
 CC> ineffectual  policies,
 CC> today.

 WS> I can aggree with you there, but one organization does
 WS> not push for those things you are complaining about.

Then, we don't have to worry about that at least.  Walter, do you
mean that if I joined that organization I could get them to push
for a change in the laws for access to printed material such that
publishers would receive funds for making that stuff available,
same with authors, and that to show your goodwill,you will bring
this issue up at the national convention.  I'd be so impressed I
have to join in that case.  I have, unfortunately, absolutely had
it with groups that ask me to put up first.  "Vote Republican and
you can get us..." to do what, act like George Bush?  We voted for
George to get him to act like Ron, at least to some extent, and
look how that worked out.  Sorry, Walter, the N.F.B. or A.C.B. will
have to give me something promises I can trust, before they get the
right to say that I want X, Y, or Z because I'm a member of either,
and their leadership wants X, Y, or Z.

--
Uucp: ..!uunet!bunker!hcap!hnews!2610!12!Gary.Petraccaro
Internet: Gary.Petraccaro@f12.n2610.z1.fidonet.org




------



Subject: Re: Nls And Nfb
From: Gary.Petraccaro@f12.n2610.z1.fidonet.org (Gary Petraccaro)
Organization: FidoNet node 1:2610/12 - Post Road Inn, Greensburg PA


[This is from the Blink Talk Conference]

 WF> What sort of books do you want? What do you think is
 WF> missing from the NLS collection.

I'd like to put in a plug for completing any series of books once
started. I'd also like to suggest one way of getting more sf books
would be to make sure that the same person reads all parts of a
serialized novel and then just put them together.  I know you
didn't ask me, but, I figured you would atleast have an idea of how
to use these suggestions better than I.

--
Uucp: ..!uunet!bunker!hcap!hnews!2610!12!Gary.Petraccaro
Internet: Gary.Petraccaro@f12.n2610.z1.fidonet.org




------



Subject: Nfb Bbs Censorship??
From: Steve.Richards@p0.f89.n129.z1.fidonet.org (Steve Richards)
Organization: FidoNet node 1:129/89.0 - BlinkLink, Pittsburgh PA


[This is from the Blink Talk Conference]

 Quoting Mike Freeman to Steve Richards 21 Jul 92 21:41:08

 MF> I'd agree with that.  However, he was/is a convenient focus for
 MF> vitriole  and symbol for the issues which NFB has chosen to take stands
 MF> on.

Hi Mike, yes, that's true.  Indeed any highly visible person is a target
for attacks.  Let me say that I am not a rabid Kenneth Jernigan hater.
To be such I would have to know him personally, and I don't.  Neither do
I know for certain whether he should wear a martyr's crown or a devil's
horns, but it is a question which I would like to answer to *my*
satisfaction to *my* standards of accuracy.  I'm not at all sure I can
do that, for emotions run high on both sides of the fence and often
anyone trying to get at the truth of who and what the man is finds
himself caught in cross-fire.  But it does seem to me that not every
attack on Kenneth Jernigan can come from irresponsible, spiteful,
vengeful people; the odds are against that.  So if some of those
attacking him are responsible and not spiteful and not vengeful, why are
they doing it?  Are they without just cause?  Possibly.  But not, in my
mind, definitely.

 MF> That calls into question whether and to what extent one believes in
 MF> democracy or the right of the people to choose whom they will.  To say
 MF> that terms of office should be limited (in private organizations or in
 MF> public office) is, in the end, to say that the public cannot be
 MF> trusted  to make wise decisions (and, hence, that some artificial

Actually, no, sometimes the public can't be trusted to make the right
decision, or else someone like Hitler would never come to power.  Our
constitution has delays built into it for the very reason that our
forefathers understood that sometimes the public becomes emotional and
behaves like an unruly mob.  We have laws to protect ourselves from
ourselves, and if we did not some who hang politicians in effigy would
hang them in actuality, themselves becoming more criminal than those
whom they detest.  Which says what?  I don't know.  You see, Mike, I do
my darnedest to see both sides of an issue, even when that leaves me
more confused than ever.  The sad truth is that many cannot bring
themselves to do this, which is why democracy is the rule of people
collectively, rational and irrational ones, so that hopefully something
like sense will be the ultimate result.

Since I possess emotions, I too am capable of knee-jerk reactions when
something pulls my own personal chain, though I try to recognize it and
get past it to rational analysis.  Uh, well, I try.

Yep, the people in NFB have every right to pick who will lead them.  So
did the ancient Hebrews, but they didn't always pick wisely.  Still,
they wanted a king to rule them, and that's what they got.  Now that
I've argued myself in a circle, the danger of playing one's own devil's
advocate, I'll say this:  My question about whether anyone should be
allowed to remain in power perpetually was inspired by this thought:
Limiting terms of office and such may very well cheat us of the
continued leadership of good people who wouldn't be corrupted by their
power, but it also protects us from tyrants who would be.  And even
worthwhile dreams must alter with the changing times.  Or at least grow.
Hence my thoughts about change and new leadership.  A batch of new young
people following the same old leader isn't the same thing as new
thinkers, not necessarily.  Are they making their own dreams or
following someone else's?  Yes, I can see the other side; maybe the
dream's *worth* following.  That's what I'm trying to find out.  And if
it is not...
Steve R.

... On a clear disk you can seek forever

--
Uucp: ..!uunet!bunker!hcap!hnews!129!89.0!Steve.Richards
Internet: Steve.Richards@p0.f89.n129.z1.fidonet.org




------



Subject: Kurzweil Personal Reader For Sale
From: Robert.Kowalski@p0.f89.n129.z1.fidonet.org (Robert Kowalski)
Organization: FidoNet node 1:129/89.0 - BlinkLink, Pittsburgh PA


[This is from the Blink Talk Conference]

With hand scanner and automatic scanner, all cables, all latest hardware
and softwae upgrades, including dot matrix recognition and settings for
document feeder (feeder not included).  Also has all manuals in braille
and cassette tape and carrying case.

The Kurzweil reads in 9 different voices and the reading speed is user
adjustable up to 500 words per minute.  It is also compatible with most
IBM compatible products or can fully function as a stand alone unit.
The hand scanner is also portable for remote location use.

Asking $11,000 or best offer.  Please reply back to the BBS or you may
call (412)751-3935 (Ask for Becky).  EQUIPMENT IN EXCELLENT CONDITION.

--
Uucp: ..!uunet!bunker!hcap!hnews!129!89.0!Robert.Kowalski
Internet: Robert.Kowalski@p0.f89.n129.z1.fidonet.org




------



Subject: Voice Output on PC tied to MainFrame
From: shats@ecst.csuchico.edu (Mick Shatswell)
Organization: California State University, Chico

I am trying to get some information on voice output on a PC
tied to a mainframe.  It was suggested to us to try McErma(sp?).
Does anyone have any information re either McErma or any others?
We are using a 3270 coax and are open to any board with a screen
reader.  We are curretnly using DecTalk with multi voice.  We tried
Attachmats 3270 with VocalEyes without the needed results.

I would appreciate any help with this problem.  How do we do this?
What board do we use?  Which software do we need?

Please reply to me directly.  Thank you for your help.

Mick Shatswell  - Technology for Independence


--
Mick Shatswell		       *  	      TARDIS Express
shats@ecst.csuchico.edu	       *  When it ABSOLUTELY, POSITIVELY has to be
"Technology For Independence"  *  there *** BEFORE *** you mailed it !!!





------



Subject: Accent synthesizer question
From: nff2355@dsacg2.dsac.dla.mil (Dale Pennington)
Organization: Defense Logistics Agency Systems Automation Center, Columbus

For the past two years I have been using a Soundingboard.  I have
become spoiled to its ease of use, especially being able to change
the rate and volume on the numberpad.  Now I have an Accent.

Could anyone tell me if there is any software available to change
rate, pitch, volume, etc on the Accent.  It would be especially
nice if such software could be made DOS resident.

Thanks for your help.


Dale Pennington
DLA Information Center
Internet:  dpennington@dsac.dla.mil





------



Subject: Re: list
From: dashiell@nadc.nadc.navy.mil (Jude DaShiell)

I have been having a problem when the bios switch
is on with list in that for the first screen of
output my artic windows stay in tact.  I have a window
set so that only the file is actively supposed to be
read.  However after the first screen of output list breaks my windows
and starts speaking information on the screen that I windowed for
silence.  I have one of the early versions of
artic business vision and think when upgrade time
comes I'll be a refugee from artic.  This strange behavior happened
with the first version of list that was able to
write to bios.  Does anyone know has this
problem been fixed or do I have some of my settings wrong in artic or
am I using the wrong synthesizer package altogether?

jude <dashiell@nadc.nadc.navy.mil>




------



Subject: Re: nls book selection
From: dashiell@nadc.nadc.navy.mil (Jude DaShiell)

The people do their book selection to as closely as possibly
emulate a small town library.
Unfortunately most of us don't live in small towns and
what's more that kind of emulation will keep our unemployment figures
in the high 80's for the foreseeable future with or without the A.D.A.
It's interesting what the bush administration took out of the original
A.D.A. as I understand it originally a provision was written that
stated that computers for the blind were a communications necessity.
I think you can guess why that was removed.
We will need to find out what other provisions were ripped out
by the bean counters since it may come to pass that because those
provisions were deleted it constitutes major employment barriers
for our group as well as others.  This should be on agenda for
future action in my opinion.

Jude <dashiell@nadc.nadc.navy.mil>




------



Subject: Re: fighting tactics
From: dashiell@nadc.nadc.navy.mil (Jude DaShiell)

large numbers are great in open spaces, get into a narrow
passage though and it's one on one and you'd better hope
who you send is up to the job at that point.
Large numbers have another advantage or can potentially have an advantage
in that one person's strong points can cover for another's
weak points if and only if the networks are connected well
enough that people know where to cover.  Not often true in large
detached organizations (much of the time members have
alienation problems) and that's absolute proof that that organization has
thrown away that advantage along with many others.
If we want the drug problem to stop we'll have to make the
determination to find out what everybody in this country
is good for and can do well or can do well with investment
and then the investment will have to follow.  And most important let each
one know and be valued for their special talents and place here!  That in
itself would constitute the fourth American Revolution.

jude <dashiell@nadc.nadc.navy.mil>




------



Subject: Re: nerves and injury
From: dashiell@nadc.nadc.navy.mil (Jude DaShiell)

My mother is an R.N. and she told me that nerves
are like rubber bands.  Once broken often impossible to reconnect.
There is research that's ongoing with amino acids to try and
reconnect broken nerves.  In my opinion it will be many years before
anything is on the market from this research though
since human trials haven't even been proposed yet.
The F.D.A. is very slow to approve new research for human use
unless it's a life threatening situation now too.

jude <dashiell@nadc.nadc.navy.mil>




------






                                ******

                  End of Issue # 2870 of the Handicap Digest

                                ******
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU