From: jcopelan@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (The One and Only)
Subject: Re: "Separation of Church and State"
Organization: The Ohio State University
Date: Fri, 18 Dec 1992 15:12:18 GMT

In article <parsons.724583764@cygnus.cis.ksu.edu.cis.ksu.edu> parsons@cis.ksu.edu (Scott S Parish ) writes:
>jcopelan@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (The One and Only) writes:
>
>>parsons@cis.ksu.edu (Scott S Parish ) writes:
>>>
>>> [Jefferson's quote deleted.]
>>>>     [Thomas Jefferson, letter to Danbury Baptist Association, CT.
>>>>      "The Complete Jefferson" by Saul K. Padover, pp 518-519]
>>>
>>>"... Although the statesmen and patriots who framed the Constitution had
>>>made it clear that no one Christian denomination would become the official
>>                    ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>>It was clearer than that. Read the first amendment again.
>
>Obviously not, you still have a wrong impression.  Keep reading.
>
To follow a very good response from Dan Johnson (I think), this is a specific
application of the first amendment, but the amendment itself is much broader.

>[A quite large deletion.]
>
>>Again, all of this according to the Supreme Court's mis-interpretation.
>
>But it wasn't a mis-interpretation, as shown by the second Jefferson
>quote presented above.  It was the correct interpretation.

But it was the Supreme Court which said that the first amendment applies only
to establishment of a specific denomination, not the first amendment itself.

>>No, not a new meaning, but the original intent of Jefferson and the 
>>Constitution.  Supreme Court interpretations don't change the original
>>intent.
>
>No, sorry, you are mistaken.  The 1947 Court took the meaning out
>of context from the original letter and gave it a new meaning at 
>that time.  The Supreme Court's ruling DOES in fact change the original
>intent--not only Jefferson's intent but also the Senate's and the
>vast majority of the Founding Fathers.  

You misunderstood what I wrote. The original intent never changes, it may be
much debated but the intent either is as you claim or it isn't. This is
independent of how the Supreme Court interprets it.

>You may believe that the Court has now rendered the correct interpretation,
>but 180 years of SupOAreme Court precedent saying that Christianity and 
>Government are intertwined; religion being taught in the schools and 
>not challenged or removed, but encouraged; and early text books that
>were practically lifted from scripture tell me that you are wrong. 

Again, this is all according to the Supreme Court's interpretation and is
irrelevant to the discussion of the original intent.

>Provide any other evidence from the Founding Fathers or even something
>prior to 1947 (besides the obviously disputed Jefferson quote) that 
>support the _current_ interpretation of the 1st Amendment.

The following quote is from a page of Jefferson's quotes that is sold at the
Jefferson Memorial in Washington, D.C.

"...no man shall be compelled to frequent or support any religious worship or
ministry or shall otherwise suffer on account of his religious opinions
or belief, but all men shall be free to profess and by argument to maintain,
their opinions in matters of religion. "

Jim Copeland
--
Have you washed your brain today?
-- 
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