HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: francis@oas.stanford.edu (Francis Muir)
Subject: NPR & Freedom of the Press: Part II
Organization: Stanford Exploration Project
Date: Sat, 5 Sep 1992 16:24:29 GMT

Also on NPR today was an interesting and classic tale involving
Liberalism and Freedom of the Press. No; for "and" read "versus".

The employees of Walden Books in Georgetown have all been fired.
This is how it went. The manager received for sale and display a
spiral-bound calendar with about three days/page. For each day there
was, in his opinion, a truly tasteless joke, and some of which he
considered sexist. It was one of those "funny" calendars, and i
guess we have all seen them. He decided that it was too much, and
refused to put it on display as his management had requested. As he
said, "suppose a 16 yr old black girl comes in and reads the "joke"
about jungle bunnies. This will add to her low self-esteem..." or
words to that effect. After discussion with the management over the 
phone, he was told a supervisor would arrive to fire him for insubordination
if he did not comply with instructions. He refused and was fired,
as, in turn, were all the other assistant managers (everyone at Walden
is an AM).

Comments?

							Fido
From: egpv29@castle.ed.ac.uk (JHenderson)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
Subject: Re: books to avoid
Date: 14 Sep 92 10:52:56 GMT
Organization: Edinburgh University

=>With regard to "wikiwiki," William R. Smith writes:
=>>Seems to me the Hawaiian word for "quick" is an oxymoron.

Reminds me of a joke:

Spaniard to Irishman: Do you have any words in your language that mean the
same thing as "manana"?
Irishman to Spaniard: Well, a couple, but they don't have the same sense
of urgency.


-- 
=======Jeremy Henderson========egpv29@castle.ed.ac.uk===============
Q: How many user support people does it take to change a light bulb?
A: We have an exact copy of the light bulb here and it seems to be
   working fine.  Can you tell me what kind of system you have?
From: lnh@soliton.physics.arizona.edu (sometimes a Wombat)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
Subject: Re: Why I read the Economist
Date: 4 Sep 92 22:04:48 GMT
Organization: Society for the Appreciation of Janni Lee Simner


On the other hand, this week's THE ECONOMIST has a hillarious "company
brief" on the House of Windsor.  It gives a brief history of the
transfers of ownership, and describes the various personages as product
lines, and describes how well they are doing in the market (The
Princess of Wales is by far the best selling product).  A sample:

	The current management has diversified into younger brands
	and raised the firm's profiles through a new emphasis on
	public relations.  The stratagy was designed to increase
	consumer awareness and stave off the distant possiblity that
	customers might consider switching to a cheaper, presifdential,
	product.  But, as happened with Perrier's problems during the
	bezene scandal in 1990, high brand awareness can cause 
	problems when the product is in doubt.

There is also a monarchy matrix, plotting the various products on
scales of functional vs. useless and entertaining vs. boring.  The
Queen is the most functional, but a bit more boring than interesting.
Prince Edward bottoms out on both scales.  The Princess of Wales is
just a touch less useful than the Queen, and just a touch less
entertaining than the Queen Mother.  The Duchess of York is the next
most entertaining, but barely more useful than Prince Edward.

Personally, I rely mainly on NPR for my news, augmented by THE
ECONOMIST for non-economic analysis and international news that
America's Public Radio may have missed.

	Larry "Back to the Fischer/Spasky debate" Hammer
--

                               | "Absence diminishes small loves and increases
LNH@albert.physics.arizona.edu | great ones, as the wind blows out the candle 
insanity needs no disclaimer   | and blows up the bonfire." --La Rochefoucauld
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
From: paula@koufax.cv.hp.com (Paul Andresen)
Subject: A Book I'd Never Read
Organization: Hewlett-Packard Company, Corvallis, Oregon USA
Date: Thu, 10 Sep 1992 14:23:23 GMT

The recent thread on books to avoid, got me to thinking about specific 
not-yet-written books ought to be ignored.

First candidate: A post-apocalypse by Joyce Carol Oates.

Others?

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
              If you're really hip, the passing years will show.
                                           ......Tower Of Power

  paula@koufax.cv.hp.com   Paul Andresen  Hewlett-Packard  (503)-750-3511

    home: 3006 NW McKinley    Corvallis, OR 97330       (503)-752-8424
From: mtaranto@shearson.com (Mark Taranto)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
Subject: Re: Ota Benga - the pygmy in the zoo [concerning the book]
Date: 7 Sep 92 19:24:37 GMT



pvb@teal.csn.org (Phillips Bradford) writes:

> you write:

I most certainly did not.

If this was intended as e-mail for someone, lets thank the net-gods for 
the screw-up.  It was an interesting article.

Mark
From: wojdylo@maths.uwa.oz.au (INFIDEL)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
Subject: Re: jmc's views on left (was Re: The Literary Canon)
Date: 15 Sep 1992 08:20:00 GMT
Organization: The University of Westrn Australia
NNTP-Posting-Host: madvax.maths.uwa.oz.au

Mr. Comer writes:

>How many Poles were starved to death in Australia in the 1980s?

Almost no one died of hunger in Australia during the 1990's, Mr. Comer.
Please relax and adjust your contexts.

On the other hand, many of the Poles I have met in Australia are amongst
the poorest of the population in another way.

>I never cease to be amazed at the adulation that the left has
>for Ho Chi Minh's government.

Mickey Mouse eats peanuts on Tuesdays and every second Thursday.


Infidel.

Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
From: marcy@sqwest.wimsey.bc.ca (Marcy Thompson)
Subject: Re: Marcia Muller's books
Organization: SoftQuad Inc., Surrey, British Columbia, CANADA
Date: Fri, 11 Sep 1992 15:25:52 GMT

In a recent rec.arts.books article, William R. Smith wrote:
>M.H. Nadel writes:
>
> This is not quite an accurate description of Sisters in Crime.  
>
>
> For example, even though over half of the mysteries published in
> the U.S. and Britain are by women, you'd never know that by
> reading reviews of mysteries.  (For example, the Bloody Sunday 
> column in the L.A. Times typically reviews 5 or 6 books and it
> is rare for more than one to be by a woman.  20-30% women authors
> seems to be typical in other review columns I've seen.)
>
>
>This is contrary to the impression I got from an article in the Sunday
>Magazine of the Chicago Tribune a couple of years ago.  I think they
>mentioned Sara Paretski and quite a few other female mystery authors
>who had female leads in their stories.  Woman writers with women dectives
>is the fastest growing segment of mystery publication.  The article
>stated that it was easier for a new woman author to get published than
>a new male writer.

She didn't say that it's harder for women to get published. In fact, 
in the paragraph you quoted, she said (in essence) that even though 
half the mysteries published are by women, women have a hard time 
getting their works reviewed.

It's quite possible that both of you are right. The fact that women
writers with female detectives is the fastest growing segment of mystery
publication makes it even more frustrating that women authors are
ignored by the reviewers of mysteries.

Marcy
-- 

Marcy Thompson		
  SoftQuad (West)			
    marcy@sq.com
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
From: ve3pak@micor.ocunix.on.ca (Alayne McGregor and Brett Delmage)
Subject: Re: NPR & Freedom of the Press: Part II
Organization: M.B. Cormier INC., Orleans (Ont)
Distribution: usa
Date: Mon, 7 Sep 1992 01:20:12 GMT

>In article <1992Sep5.162429.28860@morrow.stanford.edu>,
>francis@oas.stanford.edu (Francis Muir) writes:
>
>>Also on NPR today was an interesting and classic tale involving
>>Liberalism and Freedom of the Press. No; for "and" read "versus".
>>
>>The employees of Walden Books in Georgetown have all been fired.
>>This is how it went. ...

I'm willing to admit that one might be able to cry "Freedom of the Press"
for that yuppie slasher book (whose name I have thankfully put out of my
mind) that caused all the fuss last year. One could similarly say it over
political books (of whatever stripe), or _Final Exit_, or a store's
selection of international literature.

However, I refuse to get riled up over a tacky calendar. Given the flood of
books and other items that bookstores must choose from to stock their limited
shelf space, a bookstore manager must always choose what is appropriate
for the store, both in terms of what will sell and in terms of general interest
and good taste. I hardly think that, in a city with such a high percentage
of blacks as Washington DC, that a racist calendar would be suited to the
clientele -- as well as lowering the whole tone of the bookstore.

The manager was exercising good taste. Perhaps it would have been wiser
for the calendar to have been "lost" in the storeroom until next April,
in the circumstances, but it seems a total overreaction on the part of
WB management.

Alayne McGregor
alayne@ve3pak.ocunix.on.ca
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
From: hhenderson@vax.clarku.edu
Subject: RE: How I boggle myself
Organization: Clark University
Date: 15 SEP 92 13:33:31 GMT

>Scott, incidentally, cannot write anywhere near as well as Jane Austen,
>but he can write novels as well as she.

Why the heck does this Scott/Austen comparison pop up so frequently?
In college, the feminist critics in my class kept bashing Scott by
saying "He's not Jane Austen!"  Well, Austen is great, but she isn't
Scott.  She doesn't have nearly enough macho Scottish dudes in kilts
leaping from crag to crag.  More's the pity.

Heather Henderson
Clark University
HHENDERSON@vax.clarku.edu
From: loosemore-sandra@CS.YALE.EDU (Sandra Loosemore)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
Subject: Re: books to avoid
Date: 6 Sep 92 13:02:31 GMT
Article-I.D.: cs.1992Sep6.170239.12249
Organization: staff hacker @ Yale Haskell project

mworley@mathcs.emory.edu (Meg Worley) writes:

   [Avoid books described as "wickedly funny", etc., on the cover.]

   What other phrases
   get up your nose or otherwise serve to prevent you, like Socrates'
   divine sign, from making sorry mistakes?

I view anything described as a "saga" with extreme suspicion.  A
"passionate saga" is even worse.  Also, on the subject of judging
books by their covers, I tend to avoid books with covers that depict
alien spacecraft or a woman falling out of her dress.

-Sandra
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
From: mtaranto@shearson.com (Mark Taranto)
Subject: Re: Natalie Goldberg & teaching writing
Organization: Yale CS Mail/News Gateway
Date: Tue, 15 Sep 1992 15:52:43 GMT


Re: Natalie Goldberg's WRITING DOWN THE BONES,
WilliamSburg fort Smith writes:
 
> At the rab fest a conversation came up about books for wannabe writers.
 
        . . . 
 
>  Here are two excerpts from the back jacket of WDtB.
 
        [Blurb deleted]
>                                       Robert Pirsig, author of
>                       Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance
 
        [Blurb deleted]
>                                       Judith Guest, author of
>                                       Ordinary People
 
 
She seems to be popular among Minnesota writers.  I gotta get me this book!
 
Mark
From: cramer@optilink.UUCP (Clayton Cramer)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
Subject: Re: Chautauqua ? (Zen & the Art...)
Date: 15 Sep 92 00:06:24 GMT
Distribution: world, rec, usa
Organization: Optilink Corporation, Petaluma, CA

In article <18qblgINNhlp@smaug.West.Sun.COM>, jimh@pongo.Eng.Sun.COM (jim hori) writes:
> In article <1992Sep11.002017.17864@ccu.umanitoba.ca> feld@ccu.umanitoba.ca (Michael Feld) writes:
> >The word names a town; the town played host to a special kind of
> >teaching: learning as a pleasure, the instruction provided largely, if
> >not entirely, via popular lectures.
> 
> This is all true, however the word originates with the Iroquois,
> from whom the above concepts were borrowed. They are also credited
> with heavily influencing the concepts of democracy which guided
> the founders of the United States of America.
> 
> jimh@west.sun.com

Only by those ignorant of the process by which the REPUBLIC of
the United States of America came into existence.

The roots of American representative government can be traced by
examining the ratification debates of the Constitution, the
language of the Declaration of Independence, the letters of 
the Founders, the pamphlets used as part of the political
struggles, and bits and pieces of the First Congress' records.

I've read all the ratification debates concerning the Constitution,
dozens of pamphlets by differing factions, large quantities of
letters by various people involved in the founding of the USA.
There are recurring references to the Greek city-states, to
English principles of law, to the Swiss Confederation, to the
experiences of the Romans, to the Italian city-states of the
Renaissance.  I have yet to see a reference in ANY of those
works to the governmental system of the Iroquois, or any other
Indian tribe.

There ARE references to the Indians in these documents, but they
aren't pleasant: "merciless Indian savages" in the Declaration
of Indepedence, for example.
-- 
Clayton E. Cramer {uunet,pyramid}!optilink!cramer  My opinions, all mine!
There can be no peace as long as AB 2601 lives.
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
From: TROUTMAN@vmd.cso.uiuc.edu
Subject: Bookseller's list
Organization: C.C.S.O.
Date: Mon, 7 Sep 1992 19:10:42 GMT

Is anyone here aware of a list (BITNET, Usenet, bulletin board, etc.)
that deals with the retail book business?  I'm interested
specifically in the antiquarian or used-book trade.  I'm thinking of
going into business and would like to talk with people who are already
operating successful businesses.  Please respond to my email address and
thanks ...  (Wish me luck!)
Leslie Troutman
University of Illinois at Urbana-Champaign
EMAIL: TROUTMAN@VMD.CSO.UIUC.EDU
VOICE: 217-244-4071
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
From: spb0457@zeus.tamu.edu (SubGenius)
Subject: Re: books to avoid
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41    
Organization: Texas A&M University, Academic Computing Services
Date: Thu, 10 Sep 1992 00:38:00 GMT

Maven o'Mirth writes...
>Generally I would agree with you.  Listen, however, to the back panel from
>my copy of Kerouac's _On The Road_: "Just as, more than any other novel of
>the Twenties, _The Sun Also Rises_ came to be regarded as the testament of
>the Lost Generation, so it seems certain that _On the Road_ will come to
>be known as that of the Beat Generation." (Gilbert Millstein, NYT)  I
>almost didn't buy it...that sort of introduction, combined with having
>been told that I absolutely _had_ to read this book or I was no scholar of
>literature, really turned me off.  I have since concluded there is
>something to be said for going against one's literary instincts.  :)
>Sheryl Stover

+----------------------------------------------SubG---------------------------+
Actually, I think the whole Kerouac/Burroughs/Ginsberg schtick is teetering
on the brink of trashdom (although listening to Ginsberg read his own poety
is a hoot.  During my show on a local radio station I came across a copy of
the "The Lion For Real" (I believe that's the title) album, and couldn't keep a
straight face through a second of the title track.  Sounds a bit like Doctor
Demento, actually).  The same can be said for the other Beat artists (Jackson
Pollack becoming one with his paintings and all that rot).

As for being told that you "_had_" to read any given volume or give up any
hopes of being a "scholar of literature," I'll refer you to the literary
canon debate.






Yours etc.,





SubGenius
From: cramer@optilink.UUCP (Clayton Cramer)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
Subject: Re: jmc's views on left (was Re: The Literary Canon)
Date: 15 Sep 92 00:23:12 GMT
Organization: Optilink Corporation, Petaluma, CA

In article <1917krINNs87@uniwa.uwa.edu.au>, wojdylo@maths.uwa.oz.au (INFIDEL) writes:
> cramer@optilink.UUCP (Clayton Cramer) writes:
# #Three million Vietnamese left the North for the South
# #in the mid-1950s, to get away from Ho Chi Minh's tyranny.
# 
# Hey, guess what. Ten thousand Poles left Australia last year to
# return to their homeland...
# 
# I.

How many Poles were starved to death in Australia in the 1980s?

I never cease to be amazed at the adulation that the left has
for Ho Chi Minh's government.
-- 
Clayton E. Cramer {uunet,pyramid}!optilink!cramer  My opinions, all mine!
There can be no peace as long as AB 2601 lives.
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
From: mtaranto@shearson.com (Mark Taranto)
Subject: Re: The White Man's Burden of Proof
Organization: Yale CS Mail/News Gateway
Date: Tue, 15 Sep 1992 16:13:49 GMT


wojdylo@maths.uwa.oz.au (INFIDEL) writes:
 
> mtaranto@shearson.com (Mark Taranto) writes:
 
>> wojdylo@maths.uwa.oz.au (INFIDEL) writes:
 
>>> Do yourself a favor and look up the word "catachresis".
 
>> There is no need for me to look it up, when the old INFIDEL has provided
>> us with so many examples of using a word in the wrong context.
 
> Find me one example, Mr. Tonto, or forever hold your peace.
 
There is a certain old English word for a female body part which the old
INFIDEL frequently used in a failed attempt at synecdoche.  Where the
old INFIDEL tried to have it stand for the whole, the New, Improved Infidel
seems to use it properly, trying to have it stand for the hole.
 
Mark
 
PS
 
The "Tonto" is hardly original, though in my experience adults are
usually more creative.
 
 
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books,rec.humor,alt.folklore.urban,rec.arts.sf.misc
From: swaim@owlnet.rice.edu (Michael Parks Swaim)
Subject: Re: Agnostics and Athiests
Organization: Rice University
Date: Mon, 7 Sep 1992 03:22:45 GMT

Subject: 
Summary: 
Expires: 
Followup-To: 
Distribution: 
Organization: Rice University
Keywords: 

In article <SEAN.92Sep6190137@majestix.cs.uoregon.edu> sean@majestix.cs.uoregon.edu (Joseph Sean Livingston) writes:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>IF THIS DOESN'T STOP, IM GOING TO START THE WORST CASCADE EVER.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>WHILE EATING THIS SLOP, I SEWED THE FIRST BROCADE BEAVER.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>BILE FITTING RIG STOP, LIE SPEWED THIRST LIVER !!!!
>>>>>>>>>>>>IF YOU MUST CONTRIBUTE, AT LEAST DELIVER...
>>>>>>>>>>>WHO MAY I ATTRIBUTE TO THIS BEASTLY SLIVER?
>>>>>>>>>>TO SPAY A LUTE IN A GREASY RIVER
>>>>>>>>>DAMN CASCADERS THINK YOU'RE SO CLEVER
>>>>>>>>I WILL NOT CASCADE; NOPE, NO, NEVER
>>>>>>>WOULD YOU, COULD YOU, ON A TRAIN?
>>>>>>WOULD YOU, COULD YOU, IN THE RAIN?
>>>>>R2-D2 ON THE BRAIN?
>>>>This cascade is damn insane!
>>>And it's really getting lame!
>>This lower case is going against the grain!
>LeTs TrY mIxEd UpPeR aNd LoWeR CaSe ThEn AnD "rAiSe SoMe CaIn."
Let's not. It's a pain.
-- 
Mike Swaim            | I can see clearly now my brain is gone.
swaim@owlnet.rice.edu | I can see all the bicycles in my way.
Rupp doesn't even know who I am,
 much less care what I think
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
From: entpph@ritvax.isc.rit.edu
Subject: Re: utopias and distopias
Reply-To: entpph@ritvax.isc.rit.edu
Organization: Rochester Institute of Technology
Date: Wed, 9 Sep 1992 12:45:52 GMT

Herland, a turn of the century feminist utopian novel by I can't
tell you the author's name because I can't find my copy.

Erik Timmerman
From: jack@dcs.glasgow.ac.uk (Jack Campin)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
Subject: Re: utopias and distopias
Date: 9 Sep 92 13:53:12 GMT
Reply-To: jack@dcs.glasgow.ac.uk (Jack Campin)
Organization: COMANDOS Project, Glesga Yoonie


rafem@gvlf7-e.gvl.unisys.com (Ralph Marrone) wrote:
> tony@nexus.yorku.ca (Anthony Wallis) writes:
>> That reminds me !  Does anybody recall a dystopian novel called
>> "Limbo '90" (author forgotten) ?  Written circa 1960 and set 30 years
>> into the future (i.e. now), in as much as I can recall (I read it
>> 30 years ago), it described a society in which females are sexually
>> assertive and male agressiveness is anathema.  Male status depended
>> on the number of limbs they voluntarially had amputated.  The highest
>> status was accorded to those who had all four limbs and ..er.. their
>> fifth "limb" cut off.
>> It must have been a pretty awful book.  I never heard mention of it
>> in 30 years, not even from rabid feminists ..
> Would this be _Limbo_ by Bernard Wolfe?

It was sold under both titles; I think the weirdnesses of US copyright law
required that.  I remember it as a much better book than Tony does.  It
makes an interesting parallel to Orwell's attacks on Stalinism in "1984"
and "Animal Farm".  Like Orwell, Wolfe was doing this from the far left -
he was Trotsky's secretary in Mexico for a while, though the book's
positions seem to owe more to Wilhelm Reich.

He picks an ideology almost at random - an off-the-wall theory of William
James's to the effect that emotion is provoked by having the physical means
to express it - and shows it used as the basis for an entire society, with
a ruling class perverting it into its exact opposite; the amputees equip
themselves with nuclear-powered prostheses to enable far more extreme kinds
of aggression than anything a flesh-and-blood fist could accomplish.  He
isn't making any specific point about feminism; physical violence and sexual
aggressiveness are being used largely as a parable for class power.

And at the end he shows that whole society collapsing into a chaos of civil
war with the oligarchy looking for a new technocratic ideology to do the
same repressive job only better (mass lobotomy this time).  Which earns
Wolfe a few prophecy points.

-- 
--  Jack Campin    room G092, Computing Science Department, Glasgow University,
17 Lilybank Gardens, Glasgow G12 8RZ, Scotland   TEL: 041 339 8855 x6854 (work)
INTERNET: jack@dcs.glasgow.ac.uk or via nsfnet-relay.ac.uk    FAX: 041 330 4913
BANG!net: via mcsun and uknet     BITNET: via UKACRL    UUCP: jack@glasgow.uucp
From: sstover@sumax.seattleu.edu (Maven o'Mirth)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
Subject: Re: books to avoid
Date: 9 Sep 92 18:43:20 GMT
Organization: Seattle University, Seattle WA

In article <a3pn0#-.dani@netcom.com> dani@netcom.com (Dani Zweig) writes:
>"In the tradition of ..."
>"If you liked X ..."

Generally I would agree with you.  Listen, however, to the back panel from
my copy of Kerouac's _On The Road_: "Just as, more than any other novel of
the Twenties, _The Sun Also Rises_ came to be regarded as the testament of
the Lost Generation, so it seems certain that _On the Road_ will come to
be known as that of the Beat Generation." (Gilbert Millstein, NYT)  I
almost didn't buy it...that sort of introduction, combined with having
been told that I absolutely _had_ to read this book or I was no scholar of
literature, really turned me off.  I have since concluded there is
something to be said for going against one's literary instincts.  :)

>"Could be worse."

I won't touch that one.

--
Sheryl Stover				|  How passing fair is youth,
*>sstover@sumax.seattleu.edu<*		|  Forever fleeting away;
and Hemingway, feline philosopher	|  Who happy would be, let him be;
Watch this .sig for news of the		|  Of tomorrow, who can say?
upcoming album from Seattle's 		|	-Lorenzo de'Medici
premier band, the Medici!		|

Newsgroups: rec.arts.books,news.answers