HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: schamber@watserv1.waterloo.edu (CHAMBERLAND S - BIOLOGY)
Subject: Re: When do we stop being outsiders? (WAS Re: The Journal on ...)
Organization: University of Waterloo
Date: Fri, 10 Apr 1992 15:32:44 GMT

In article <1992Apr10.011017.17271@watserv1.waterloo.edu> schamber@watserv1.waterloo.edu (CHAMBERLAND S - BIOLOGY) writes:
>In article <1992Apr9.221447.27285@watserv1.waterloo.edu> jkramer@sunwise.UWaterloo.ca (Viscous Pig Dog) writes:
>>In article <11408@std-2> audetf@Software.Mitel.COM (Francois Audet) writes:
>>>In article (Craig Campbell) writes:
>>>>Well, for one Quebec is not a nation. 
>>>
>>>Of course Quebec is a nation!
>>>
>>
>>Did I miss the smileys?
>
>No, no smileys were required. Most of French Quebeckers on this net will
>say it: we ARE a nation.
>
>This distinct society thing was accepted by Quebec federalists because
>TROCians could not accept the idea of "nation".
>
>But it does not change our feelings. We feel we ARE a nation.
>Take an honnest look at our 2 societies in Canada. 2 solitudes, many
>have said. 2 nations, I would say.

I will add: 3 nations.

I forgot the native indians.
(I don't know if they consider themselves one nation or many)

All my sincere apologies to them. 

Too much often, I guess, some Quebec nationalists (and some TROCians too,
I am sure) forget that they exist...

Sylvain Chamberland
Dept. of Biology
University of Waterloo
Waterloo, Ontario.


Newsgroups: can.general
From: s36238f@kaira.hut.fi (Tim Klemets)
Subject: Canada = ?
Organization: Helsinki University of Technology, Finland
Distribution: can.general
Date: Mon, 13 Apr 1992 14:51:42 GMT


I'm curious to hear where the name Canada comes from.  What does
it stand for?  It doesn't sound extremely English to me, but not
like any indian language either.  (No, I don't know any indian
language).


--
   Tim.Klemets@hut.fi ** Aldrig mer en h{ftig signatur ** Fiksut signaturet 
   kypsytt{v{t minua ** Please don't expect a cool signature ** Tolle 
   Signaturen machen mich nerv|s ** Quoi? Non, je regrette, pas de signature
   pour le moment; revenez demain ** Mujeres y hombres, no tengo signaturas
   ahora - ?esta' claro? ** Nogalongo kulubumbura babullabadre
Xref: sparky can.general:2249 can.politics:3912 soc.culture.canada:3518
From: plante@IRO.UMontreal.CA (Frederic Plante)
Newsgroups: can.general,can.politics,soc.culture.canada
Subject: Re: A really nice, fuzzy love letter for Sylvain et al. ...
Date: 17 Apr 92 07:39:57 GMT
Reply-To: plante@IRO.UMontreal.CA (Frederic Plante)
Organization: Universite de Montreal

In article <1992Apr16.163800.18708@thunder.mcrcim.mcgill.edu> thomas@McRCIM.McGill.EDU (Thomas Jelonek) writes:
>
>
>Lise Bissonette is incredibly narrow-minded and naive. Her views on 
>the states role in cultural activity place her somewhere between 
>Andrei Zhdanov and Francois Mitterand (only she wouldn't allow Eurodisney). 
>She is someone who is obviously well educated but equally as obvious not
>very bright. Personally, I think she doesn't understand culture at all, 
>regardless of how many essays she writes on the topic.
>
>Thomas

Non, mais que c'est dur comme jugement!  Auriez-vous des faits pour 
l'appuyer?  Etes-vous capable de me citer des articles ou des editoriaux
qui me demontreraient clairement la veracite d'un jugement aussi brutal?

J'ai nettement l'impression que vous connaissez tres peu Lise Bissonnette.

Frederic Plante
Xref: sparky can.general:2085 can.politics:3602 soc.culture.canada:3252
From: lermer@theory.chem.ubc.ca (Noah Lermer)
Subject: Re: When do we stop being outsiders? (WAS Re: The Journal on ...)
Organization: University of British Columbia, Vancouver, B.C., Canada
Date: Sat, 11 Apr 1992 01:57:43 GMT

In article <1992Apr10.011017.17271> schamber@watserv1.waterloo.edu (CHAMBERLAND S - BIOLOGY) writes:
>jkramer@sunwise.UWaterloo.ca (Viscous Pig Dog) writes:
>>audetf@Software.Mitel.COM (Francois Audet) writes:
>>>(Craig Campbell) writes:
>>>>Well, for one Quebec is not a nation. 
>>>
>>>Of course Quebec is a nation!
>>>
>>
>>Did I miss the smileys?
>
>No, no smileys were required. Most of French Quebeckers on this net will
>say it: we ARE a nation.
>
>This distinct society thing was accepted by Quebec federalists because
>TROCians could not accept the idea of "nation".
>
>But it does not change our feelings. We feel we ARE a nation.
>Take an honnest look at our 2 societies in Canada. 2 solitudes, many
>have said. 2 nations, I would say.
>
  If I might add a comment here:

I've always felt that the english usage of the word "nation" was very different
from the francais <<nation>>.

 In english, it almost always has the same meaning as country, i.e., a
  political and legal as well as cultural entity.
 In french, I've always understood it to mean more of a cultural unit;
  you can be <<une nation>> without being a contry (nation != pays). Probably
  a better translation (IMHO) would be a people, as in the Quebec People.

  I remeber being very confused (confus) when I first learned this!

On a related note, I also feel that this is one of the problems english-speaking
Canada has with the phrase "distinct". In english this connotes being "better"
to my ears. For example, being "someone of distinction" means being (recognised
as) better than your fellows. In french, <<distinct>> seems to me to translate
much more closely to "different". A "different society" clause and "distinct
socitey" clause seem very different.

I should note that my french is rather (a lot ! :) rusty and I could be 
very wrong here... but I don't think so :-).

My $0.05.

Bruce Hollebone (I read news from a friend's account)
hollebon@cemaid.chem.ubc.ca
Xref: sparky can.general:2136 can.jobs:168 ont.general:698 ont.jobs:142
From: klassen@sol.UVic.CA (Melvin Klassen)
Subject: Re: Looking for a summer job...
Organization: University of Victoria, Victoria, B.C. CANADA
Distribution: can
Date: Mon, 13 Apr 92 18:12:16 GMT

In article <1992Apr13.163616.4105@ee.ubc.ca>
                           ileung@ee.ubc.ca (LEUNG ISAAC JING H) writes:
> I've seen a few job wanted postings here,
> so I assume it's okay to put these up here.
>
Nothing personal, Isaac, but to quote an old parable, 
"two wrongs don't make a right".

IMHO, it is **NOT** appropriate to post a "commercial" for yourself to USENET.
See the USENET usage guidelines in "news.announce.newusers".
 
Remember, access to USENET is a privilege, not a right.
It's not a "free speech" issue, i.e., "I can post anything I want to any group".
           
Imagine the volume of postings in this newsgroup if every EE and CS student
at every Canadian university were to post his/her resume!  Yuk!!
Newsgroups: can.general,can.politics,soc.culture.canada
From: schamber@watserv1.waterloo.edu (CHAMBERLAND S - BIOLOGY)
Subject: Re: When do we stop being outsiders? (WAS Re: The Journal on ...)
Organization: University of Waterloo
Date: Mon, 13 Apr 1992 19:47:40 GMT

In article <1992Apr13.182639.3398@watserv1.waterloo.edu> heckman@kingcong.UWaterloo.ca (Gerald Heckman) writes:
>In article <SBO.92Apr10124351@gunther.vlsi.polymtl.ca> sbo@vlsi.polymtl.ca (Stephane Boucher) writes:
>
>[...] 
>>Make this country Unilingual anglophones so that we won't get Funking
>>French on our cereal Box. We will get back the jobs that where stolen from
>>us by the Funcking Frogs.
>>
>>Let's not give 60 Millions to the province of Quebec. They don't deserve
>>it. They must first sign a deal. We won't pay for them. After all, it's not
>>their money. It's ours. Furthermore, we only get 800 Millions dispite the
>>fact that we are less populous. What an outrage.
>>
>>Let's solve this once and for all. Let's send the army. Let's put those
>>damn Frogs back where they belong.
>[...]
>
>Stephane ! Il a fallu que je regarde la signature une deuxieme fois
>pour verifier que c'etait bien toi qui ecrivait ces mots. Je n'en crois 
>pas mes yeux. Je ne me souviens pas d'avoir vu sur ce net les mots
>"funcking frog", "frog" et "damn frogs" utilises comme tu l'as fait.
>J'espere que tu ne crois pas ce que tu dis - en tant que Quebecois
>francophone je trouves ton choix de vocabulaire hostile et insultant.
>Pourquoi es-tu le seul sur le net a utiliser un tel vocabulaire ?
>Pourquoi es-tu le seul ici a avoir adopte une position aussi extreme ?
>
>Stephane ! I had to read the attribution twice to make sure it was
>correct ! I can't believe you're saying this. I think I have never
>seen anyone on this net use "funcking frog" and "frog" and "damn frogs"
>like this before. I hope you don't mean this - as a French-speaking
>Quebecois I find it rather hostile-sounding and insulting.
>Why are you the only one here using such vocabulary ? Why are you the
>only one here who has taken such an extreme position ?
>
>>  ,                          ,                           ,
>>Stephane Boucher, ing. jr. | Ecole Polytechnique de Montreal
>>sbo@vlsi.polymtl.ca        | 
>>sbo@info.polymtl.ca        | (514)340-5950
>
>Non, mais .... !
>
>Gerald P Heckman
>Universite de Waterloo,
>Waterloo, Ontario, Canada.
>
He was being cynical, Gerald. I don't understand why you don't
understand that...

Don't you see the point here?

There is a lot of Quebec bashing in this newsgroup, you should see that.
At least, that's the feeling of many French-Quebeckers including myself.

Sylvain Chamberland
University of Waterloo
Waterloo, Ontario.

P.S. Did you see?  I stopped talking of "Quebeckers" long ago.
     I speak now of "French-Quebeckers" instead.
     Maybe it means that we, Quebec nationalists, are less 
     single-minded that many think...
From: 881277m@ace.acadiau.ca (WALLACE MCLEAN)
Newsgroups: acadia.cs.chat,can.general
Subject: need a place to stay in Ottawa
Keywords: he's homeless
Date: 15 Apr 92 21:00:11 GMT
Organization: Acadia University

I am looking for a place to stay in Ottawa.

I need it from about May to about September

It needs to be as cheap as possible

It needs to be reasonably close to the centre of the universe (Parliament 
Hill and the National Library) as possible

Any insight, information, anyone?

881277m@ace.acadiau.ca (This address valid until April 23rd)
p.o. box 88, north west river, labrador. AOP 1MO
From: 881277m@ace.acadiau.ca (WALLACE MCLEAN)
Newsgroups: can.general
Subject: Re: Canada = ?
Date: 14 Apr 92 13:38:03 GMT
Organization: Acadia University

In article <s3s8iB2w164w@sys6626.bison.mb.ca> boris@sys6626.bison.mb.ca (boris) writes:


>  Also I wonder just when it was the spanish made it this far north, and 
>why the spanish of all peoples would be the influence on the name of a 
>french or british territory.

The Basques, Spaniards and Portuguese were alll frequent visitors to 
Northeastern North America. The Basques carried on a brisk trade in whaling 
in the Strait of Belle Isle region. In fact, the Basque's whaling was North 
America's first large-scale industry. A look at any period map will also 
show the Iberian influence on toponymy: Cape Race (Cabo de Raso), Terra 
Bacalaos (Baccalieu), Cape Spear (Cabo de Espera), Labrador (Terra de 
Lavrador), Bonavista, etc.

	As for Canada derived from Spanish "Aca Nada", this is a classic 
example of what is called folk etymology. Put no more trust in this than you 
would in the story I have heard about Quebec being derived from the French 
"Quel bec". Near where I live there is a river called the Kenemou (three 
syllables). My great-uncle used to tell the story of how a cow escaped from 
the farm, met up with a caribou, and asked it "Can you moo?", ergo the name. 
Folk etymologies are fun, but they can cloud the true provenance of a word 
or place-name.
Newsgroups: can.general,can.politics,soc.culture.canada
From: charlto@ccu.UManitoba.CA (Michael Charlton)
Newsgroups: can.general,can.jobs,ont.general,ont.jobs
Subject: Re: CS Job Market: What Is The Story?
Date: 11 Apr 92 22:21:35 GMT
Organization: University of Manitoba, Winnipeg, Canada.

In article <2340@isgtec.isgtec.com> robert@isgtec.com (Robert Osborne) writes:

   Be careful as there are a lot of truely slimy people in the 'head-hunting'
   business (hence the, ummm, colourful nickname :-).   A reputable agency
   will be as worried about your lack of experience as a future employer
   would so be wary if you don't have to 'hard' sell yourself.

I totally agree that employment agencies are an excellent way to get
interviews (providing you are qualified...).  One of the things I did when
I was looking for a good employment agency was to phone them up first.  They
should ask you a lot of tough questions right off the bat and try to get
a good idea of what kind of job you are looking for.  This is without you
sending them a resume or telling them your name.  If they don't ask the
kind of questions you think are important for them to know, move on to
another agency.  Also, try to make sure that they understand the terms they
are saying.  I once had an agency send me to an interview that wanted a
Microsoft Windows programmer but told me in the pre-interview briefing that
the company wanted an XWindows programmer.  There were a few sticky moments
at the beginning of that interview... :-)

                Mike
Newsgroups: can.general,can.politics,soc.culture.canada
From: schamber@watserv1.waterloo.edu (CHAMBERLAND S - BIOLOGY)
Subject: Wrong quoting!
Keywords: frogs, plagues, excessive attributions
Organization: University of Waterloo
Date: Wed, 15 Apr 1992 05:47:14 GMT

In article <1992Apr14.234509.720@csi.uottawa.ca> cbbrowne@csi.uottawa.ca (Christopher Browne) writes:
>I've seen some articles on the "frog" thread (i.e. - where Sylvain speaks
>for the redneck anglos, putting phrases like "Send the army after the frogs"
>in their mouths), and the attributions are getting a LITTLE excessive.

PLEASE at LEAST READ CAREFULLY THE MESSAGES AND THEIR ORIGIN.

Stephane posted a message speaking for the "redneck anglos", not me.
(I answered and tried to explain it was cynical, sarcastic. I was NOT
the one using these.)

I  H A T E   when people put words in my mouth I did not say.
(It's the second time)

G E T   G L A S S E S  !  !  !  !  !  !  !  !  !

(If you find me rude, you asked for it.)

>-- 
>Christopher Browne
>cbbrowne@csi.uottawa.ca
>University of Ottawa
>Master of System Science Program

About the Subject line, how do you find the new one?????


Sylvain Chamberland
University of Waterloo
Waterloo, Ontario.

Newsgroups: can.general,can.politics,soc.culture.canada
From: robinc@bnr.ca (Robin Collins)
Subject: Re: When do we stop being outsiders? (WAS Re: The Journal on ...)
Organization: Bell-Northern Research Ltd., Ottawa, Canada
Date: Wed, 15 Apr 92 20:59:59 GMT

In article <1992Apr13.212237.6275@tsltor.uucp> stevew@tsltor.uucp (Stephen M. Webb) writes:
>In article <1992Apr10.011017.17271@watserv1.waterloo.edu> schamber@watserv1.waterloo.edu (CHAMBERLAND S - BIOLOGY) writes:
>>
>>No, no smileys were required. Most of French Quebeckers on this net will
>>say it: we ARE a nation.
>>
>>This distinct society thing was accepted by Quebec federalists because
>>TROCians could not accept the idea of "nation".
>>
>>But it does not change our feelings. We feel we ARE a nation.
>>Take an honnest look at our 2 societies in Canada. 2 solitudes, many
>>have said. 2 nations, I would say.
>>
>
>Okay, one more time.
>
>The Quebecois ARE a nation (anyone who denies this should consult a better
>dictionary before letting their knee jerk.  The word "nation" under "N").
>
>Canada does NOT consist of 2 (two) nations.  Canada is a federation of
>territories in which reside numerous nations as well as a substantial 
>number of people of other nationalities.  In the territory of Quebec, the
>dominant nation is the Quebecois (also known as french-speaking Quebecers).
>The rest  of Canada is dominated by a nebulous, vaguely identified nation
>wrongly referred to as "English Canada" for lack of a better name.  The
>problems in most of the discussions on this news group have arisen because
>these names are inaccurate: the Quebecois are not the only nation in
>Quebec, and TROC is neither a single group of pukka British sycophants,
>nor is a "the rest of youse" a less than insulting concept.
>
>Quebec is NOT a nation, nor is it a state or a country right now.  The 
>Quebecois ARE a nation, and their can be no debate about that.




Well I agree with most of what you have said here. Except for two issues:
Quebec (the territory) comprises a nation of those who inhabit it, yet
it is not a nation state in the sense of having formed a separate state.
Until now, the majority of citizens have been obliged (in colonial times)
or have preferred to remain within Canada.

The nation of Quebec need not be described in ethnic terms. In that regard,
the Quebecois are the citizens of the Quebec nation, but the Quebecois 
are not only francophones.
If other groups within Quebec also wish to define themselves as nations, they
have the right to do so.
Similarly Canadians can describe themselves as a nation (which incorporates
Quebec) and this does not contradict the nationhood of Quebec. If however, the
nation of Quebec decides to secede from Canada, Canadians can no longer include
the nation of Quebec in their nation, without negating the rights of
the Quebec people.

But I think it is extremely important that we steer away from defining
nations along ethnic lines, as you seem to have done with Quebec, although
you seem to have not done so with the rest of Canada (I assume this by
your rejection of the idea of english-canada, something I also reject.)

Frank.

Xref: sparky can.general:2068 can.politics:3561 soc.culture.canada:3202
From: 870086t@aucs.acadiau.ca (Shannon Tremblay)
Subject: CS Job Market: What Is The Story?
Organization: Acadia University
Distribution: canada
Date: Wed, 8 Apr 1992 02:05:56 GMT



I recently read an article in "DIRECT ACCESS", March27, 1992, top of page 6;
for those who what to check for themselves.  The article is called 
"Crisis Situation" and speaks of a report, called "Software and National Competitiveness: Human Resource Issues and Opportunities," funded by Employment and
Immigration Canada and co-sponsored by  CATA and CIPS.

In the article it is suggested that there is currently a shortage of software
workers that could reach over 14000 by 1995.

It goes on to suggest that 12000 to 14000 more jobs will be available to people
in the software industry by 1995.

****

MY QUESTION IS THIS

As a graduating student with a BCS and 16 months of Co-op experience behind
me and no job waiting for me at present;  I question the accuracy of these
statements.  I know of a number of students here on campus, also graduating
that are asking the same questions.
If there is a shortage of workers, then WHY can we not get jobs.

What is the sensus for the rest of the country?  Are the jobs available?
Am I simply looking in the wrong places?

Based on the numbers from the article I read, I would expect companies to 
be breaking down the doors trying to hire graduating students.


Be sure to post your replys as there must be others asking the same questions.




Hope to hear from you all   :-)

Shannon Tremblay
graduating class May, 1992
		(at least I hope so :-) :-)

Acadia University
Wolfville, NS


Newsgroups: acadia.cs.chat,can.general,can.jobs,ont.general,ont.jobs,comp.jobs
Newsgroups: can.general,can.politics,soc.culture.canada
From: robinson@mdivax1.uucp (Jim Robinson)
Subject: Re: A really nice, fuzzy love letter for Sylvain et al. ...
Reply-To: robinson@mdd.comm.mot.com (Jim Robinson)
Organization: Motorola - Mobile Data Division; Richmond, BC
Date: 16 Apr 92 21:27:15 GMT

boris@sys6626.bison.mb.ca (boris) writes:
>  Meech lake was killed by one man of 25 million. harper.
>Meech lake passed in 8 of ten provinces though. 8 provinces representing 
>over haf the population of Canada. The failure of meech was not a 
>repudiation of quebec as some would have us think, but a repudiation of 
>the system of laws that allowed a very few to stop the passage of 
>something that the Majority wanted.  

At the time of the MLA failure, the polls indicated that a majority of
people in anglophone Canada rejected said accord. In other words, just
because a provincial legislature supported the accord, it does not mean
that the people of that province supported it. The only way to have
accurately judged the support of the Canadian people (as opposed to the
support of 11 first ministers) would have been to have had a referendum.
Indeed, having screwed up once, it is no coincidence that the premiers are
being rather cautious in what they will accept in a new accord.

>It was killed not because of anglo 
>hatred, not because quebec was hated, but because the laws allowed a 
>small group to dissent against what was seen as an erosion o that groups 
>rights.

It was not killed because of anglo hatred of Quebec and Quebecers. It was
killed because of exploitable technicalities. But, everything I have read
indicates that it was killed with the blessing of the majority of people
in anglophone Canada. However, to reiterate, the rejection of the MLA was
*not* a rejection of Quebec. It was the rejection of what was considered
by many to be a flawed accord.
-- 
Jim Robinson
robinson@mdivax1.mdd.comm.mot.com
{ubc-cs!van-bc,uunet}!mdivax1!robinson

Newsgroups: acadia.cs.chat,can.general,can.jobs,ont.general,ont.jobs,comp.jobs
From: dab@ubitrex.mb.ca (Danny Boulet)
Subject: Re: CS Job Market: What Is The Story?
Organization: Ubitrex Corporation, Winnipeg, Manitoba, Canada
Date: Fri, 10 Apr 1992 22:29:36 GMT

In article <1992Apr9.212406.14502@cs.mcgill.ca> troye@cs.mcgill.ca (Troy ENGLISH) writes:
> I don't know what world you are living in but frankly after doing lots
> of looking for summer jobs and talking to 'corporate canada' the things
> they want you to know are simple...Dbase and Cobol. Dbase more than
> anything, they couldn't give a damn about any theory you might know.
> Oh, they kind of appreciate Clipper and they consider FoxPro to be
> exotic and have never even heard of lisp. C will do you well too but
> nothing like Dbase. So... if you want a job go to one of those job
                      ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
> grindmills that advertise about 'your futur in software programming'
  ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
> where they will spend the entire time teaching you Dbase, lotus and 
  ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
> workperfect.
  ^^^^^^^^^^^^

Sorry, can't pass this one by...

    If you want a career then make sure that you get a proper education.
If you just want a job then you're probably in the wrong field.  Also,
do you REALLY want to work for an employer who can't see beyond your
immediate skills to see the potential that you offer?

    Before I get flamed too much, I should point out that I realize that
the economy isn't exactly running on all cylinders.  As a consequence,
it probably makes a lot of sense to optimize some things in the short term.
Just don't forget that five or ten years from now, you might get tired
of your job and wish that you had optimized your career.  In my humble
opinion, in the computing field, optimizing your career starts with a
University education.

Nuf said.

P.S. I've got 13 years of experience since I graduated with by BSc in
computing.  I've done a lot of crazy things.  Practically none of them
would have been possible without a University education.  On the other hand,
I don't make anywhere near as much or do as interesting things (from their
perspective) as a lot of people without University training.

>
>>Somehow, the educational system is relying on the curriculum of the 80's
>>and Corporate Canada has moved into the 90's.
>
>	Hardly. 
>>
>Troy
>
>
>-- 
>*****************************************************************
>--Your naive idiocy makes me very angry -- Job (The Lawnmower man)
>"I want to lie Shipwrecked and comatose, drinking fresh mango juice"
>--Part of Themesong to Red Dwarf