From: atovorni@engr.UVic.CA (Andreas  Tovornik)
Subject: Re: BARBIE DOES IT AGAIN!!!!
Reply-To: atovorni@engr.UVic.CA
Organization: University of Victoria, Victoria, BC, Canada
Date: Sun, 11 Oct 92 23:44:59 GMT

In article 8064@ac.dal.ca, brentaa@ac.dal.ca (brent, eh?) writes:
>In article <1b46kkINNfbo@gazette.bcm.tmc.edu>, pburch@bcm.tmc.edu (Paula Burch) writes:
>> 
>> In article <1992Oct8.074136.7232@newstand.syr.edu>, kgatling@rodan.acs.syr.edu (Keith E Gatling) writes:
>> |> Regarding the thread here about Diane supposedly not letting her son fight
>> |> back (and I suspect that a lot of you read that wrong), let me add my 2c
>> |> without importing previous transcripts.
>> |> 
>> |> First of all, I was one of those kids who was raised to not fight back, or
>> |> at least to avoid confrontations where possible.  The result?  I got beat up
>> |> on a regular basis.  
>> 
>> I always fought back, but I was still the favorite target for beating 
>> up on a regular basis.
>> 
>> My anecdote cancels out your anecdote!
>> 
>> (I suppose it might have helped if I'd known how to do it better, but 
>> I don't want to chime in on that side of the argument right now.)
>> 
>> Paula Burch
>> pburch@bcm.tmc.edu
>
>
>O.K., since we're delving into childhood memories of bullies and being
>bullied, let me disagree with almost everything that has been said so far
>and prepare to be singed...
>
>	It has been stated many times by various people in various ways
>that children need to learn how to defend themselves from violent
>situations.  Before you prepare to flame me, I do not disagree with that
>in any way.  Remember this as I continue.
>
>	As a child, I was always smaller than the other kids, and less
>coordinated, and so some would think a prime target for being bullied
>and picked on.  This didn't happen to me, and there are good reasons why.
>The best way to get out of a violent situation is to never get in it in the
>first place.  The second best way is to talk your way out of it.  I
>learned in grade school that these things actually worked, and that there
>are very few potentially violent situtions which one cannot get out of.
>Now I realize that there was nothing Dylan could have done in his case
>to avoid what happened, and I in no way fault his mother for getting
>upset, I think she did the right thing.
>My point is that fighting back can often lead to more trouble than learning
>other means of problem solving.  Were I to fight back against any of the
>bullies that bothered me, even if I had taken martial arts, I would
>most likely have gotten beaten up, as they were always bigger and stronger
>than me and tended to be in large groups.  Bullies often bully because
>they want to start a fight or make you mad, and if they know that they can't
>do that, they ussually won't bother.
>	I do agree that sometimes there is no choice but to act with 
>physical force in self defence, but it doesn't always have to be that
>way, and there are other options than teaching your child that the way to 
>handle bullies is by becoming the karate kid.  
>	I avoided all signifigant violence while growing up, from grade 
>school through high school, by using my brains and my mouth.  There were
>times when I was pushed around a bit, but that's part of life, not an
>irreperable scar on the psyche of the child...
>	Violence, even in self defence, is rarely the only option, 
>and never the best option.
>
>					-Brontosaur who turned out just fine.
>

  Way to go bronto!

I should have thought of that when I was ten. I still think bullies are
bullies because they have low self esteem and have learned to be bullies
from dysfunctional parents. 

Did you get out of fights by boosting their self confidence using
compliments?

I should have thought of that.

I turned out OK methinks.

Andreas.