From: torresce@craft.camp.clarkson.edu (Alex "Mystic" Soto)
Subject: Re: ST:TNG (critiques) vs Dr. Who
Organization: Clarkson University
Date: Mon, 21 Dec 1992 14:10:37 GMT

markc@hydra.maths.unsw.EDU.AU () writes:
>I know exactly what people mean when they use the word "Masterpiece". My point
>is that like so many other words in the language its value is reduced by 
>excessive, and innapropriate use. Dr Who is great television, so is Star
>Trek. If you wish to label individual stories as masterpieces, then 
>feel free. I was merely pointing out that , in my opinion, we should be more
>realistic of our assesment of a series' worth. I, Claudius was a masterpiece.
>The Third Man is a masterpiece. The Singing Detective was a masterpiece.
>What this means is that they were exceptional works of cinema and television
>made by masters of their arts. Genesis of the Daleks was wonderful, but 
>as a personal thing, I would not use the word masterpiece to describe it.
>(I hope you can understand this without feeling that you have to personally
>justify your opinion on the matter).

I think Drewcifer, or rather Webster's definition presented by Drew explains
things enough here.

>As far as Macbeth is concerned, I have never met anybody who thought that
>one of the greatest works of the human imagination was "stupid". Know 
>ye of such a person? 

I don't know anybody who dislikes Macbeth personally, but I know people who
dislike old literature (as they would probably call it) and are more into
the MTV fast paced small attention span type living.

>>I happen to like Q.  He's hilarious to me.  In any case these are your
>>opinions.

>You are so perceptive! Yep, my opinion.

No smiley here...being sarcastic?  This is how flames start!!!  But I won't
address it since I'm not interested in flames.


>Now this is silly. We know the Time Lords are the most powerful race in the
>Whoniverse because we have so often been told they are by the Doctor and
>others. The Tharils needed a TimeLord, and Romana did the job for them.
>Why would the Tharils need a Time Lord? Whether the Time Lords could defeat 
>Sutekh is debatable. The Doctor said that they couldn't but he may have been
>exagerating the threat to impress Sarah. But the Osirians are extinct in 
>any case. The Daleks had crude Time Travel technology and wanted an artifact
>from ancient Gallifrey to improve their technology. In Trial of A TimeLord,
>the doctor says the Daleks , Sonatrans and Cybermen are "still in the nursery
>compared to us", and the TLs have had ten million years of absolute power.
> The Toymaker would hardly
>be a concern to them. The Black and white Guardians are not a race, and we don'teven know what they are. The Eternals were banished to the void by the white 
>guardian, and were insubstantial creatures anyway. The Mara couldn't even defeat the Doctor, a single Time Lord. Omega and the Master are Time Lords so they
>hardly count. 

Well for one thing, I just saw Pyramids of Mars again this weekend, and I know
the TimeLords could not handle Sutekh.  The Doctor makes it absolutely clear,
<paraphrasing>.

Doctor:  "If Sutekh breaks his ancient bonds, there isn't a race in this
universe that can stop him!" 

Sarah:  "A-a-a-h, Doctor, not even your lot?" <smiling>

Doctor:  <looking dead serious> "Not even my lot!"

>I do not wish to get into another Time Lord debate. Regardless of what
>one thinks of the scripts that the Time Lords have been given, we have been
>told that they are the oldest and most powerful civilisation in the universe,
>and the Time Lord president is more powerful" than anyone else in the known
>universe" (Borusa, Invasion of Time). I like few Time Lord stories, but 
>a race that can customise stars and time loop planets at will is not to be
>taken lightly. I just wish that the shows writers hadn't decided to 
>portray them as a bunch of doddering nincompoops in the "Deadly Assassin",
>but that is another story.
>		

>Mark C.

Well, sorry but if you say something like that, I just have to answer.  Anybody
with knowledge over time can do the things that the TimeLords do.  A simple
cactus put the Doctor in a chronic hysteresis (Meglos), for other answers, we
do not know exactly what the Tharils needed the TimeLord for.  My opinion is
that they needed her to help with freeing the other slaves - helping with her
technical experience.  But if the Tharils can phase out of time, I'm not sure
what the TimeLords can possibly do to them.  I'm also reminded that the Keeper
of Traken was able to enter the Tardis rather easily - anybody/anything that
can do that must be pretty powerful.  The mara defeated by the Doctor.  You make
it sound so simple.  Let's see the Doctor defeat the Mara already transformed
into it's normal self!  You kind of avoided the Toymaker...I've always expected 
him to come back someday.  Wanting vengeance for his loss!  Lastly, though Omega
was a TimeLord, he resembles nothing of the kind anymore.  He has nothing to
regenerate, no power/travel into time, not even a physical body, not even
matter!!!.  I'd say he's a separate entity to contend with now.  I'm sure there
are other things that I just can't remember.  Oh one more thing, we do not know
what the black and white guardian are - therefore it is kind of ignorant to say
that they are not a race when we do not know if there are more like them and 
where they come from!
	
'nuff said for now.
	Mystic
	(alex.soto@analog.com)



Newsgroups: rec.arts.drwho