From: sloan@cis.uab.edu (Kenneth Sloan)
Newsgroups: rec.games.chess
Subject: Re: Illegal moves during Tournament
Date: 21 Nov 92 01:09:43 GMT
Organization: CIS, University of Alabama at Birmingham

In article <1576@tekgen.bv.tek.com> brucec@tekgen.bv.tek.com (Bruce Cheney) writes:
>In article <1992Nov17.150740.8639@cis.uab.edu> sloan@cis.uab.edu (Kenneth Sloan) writes:
>>
>>>...When did my opportunity to protest the move cease to exist?  
>>
>>Assuming that the mating move was legal, the game was over when your
>>opponent hit his clock after making the mating move.
>>-- 
>
>Again, I take a slight exception to this. Checkmate ends the game.
>The checkmating MOVE was complete when your opponent released his
>hand off the piece he was moving. Assuming making a time control
>isn't an issue here, because the move isn't complete for time
>control considerations until you punch the clock.
>
>The point is that the following scenario is invalid:
>X makes checkmating move, releases hand from piece.
>Before X punches his clock, Y says "I protest! Nine moves
>ago you made an illegal move, and I can still protest because
>you haven't punched your clock yet."
>
>I would contend that Y's right to protest expired when X
>took his hand off the piece, not when X punches the clock.
>
>Ken, what do you think?

Oops - you are correct.  I was wrong.  But the reason for my mistake is
instructive, so...

The last copy of the rulebook which I purchased from USCF came with a
page (both sides) of corrections.  Originally, the rules read;

I.8 The Completion of the Move
    ...
    E. When determining whether the prescribed number of moves
       has been made in the allotted time, the last move is not
       considered complete until after the player has punched or
       stopped  his clock.  This applies to all situations except those
       governed by I.12.A, I.12.B, I.12.C, and I.12.D.

The correction was to delete "When...until" and replace it with the word
"Only".  So...a move is not complete until you punch your clock.

But wait...there's more - I.12.A is the rule saying that mate on the
board ends the game.  So - you are correct about the ruling.

But not about the reason...I take small exception to your reasoning: it
is now *false* that the clock is only relevant for time control purposes
(in USCF play).  The clock determines the end of *all* moves - except
the ones which end the game (I.12.A-D all have to do with the end of the
game).

But wait^2...there's more^2 - If this is a SD game, we turn to the
Sudden-Death Rules - where it says:

7. The Won Game.
    ...
    B.  A player must claim a win himself by immediately stopping 
        both clocks and notifying the director.  To claim a win
        under this rule, the player's flag must be up and his opponent's
        flag must be down after the clocks have been stopped.

Very confusing - I think that this only applies to 7.A.3 (if your
opponent's flag falls, you lose) - the 7.B is not a subpart of 7.A.3 -
it's parallel with the entire 7.A.

Are we having fun, yet?

As I said above, I concede your point.  Now...what do you do
when a player claims "I mated him on the board *before* my flag fell -
so the fact that the flag is down now is irrelevant".  Will you convene
a protest committee and ask for witnesses?  Does it make any difference
if this is a SD game or a normal time control?

One begins to wonder: why does this need to be so complicated?  I
believe that it is because the clock has been added relatively recently,
and is still a second class concept.  All sorts of wierd exceptions have
been grandfathered into the rules - to no particularly good end.  Given
my druthers, I would rewrite the rules to say that you move is over when
you hit the clock.  Period.  On balance, I believe that this would make
everyone's life simpler.

While I'm airing my druthers - I would also remove all of the
foolishness about "insufficient material", and "clearly drawn".  This
may have the effect of making the current Sudden-Death rules really,
really foolish - but I count that as a feature.  I would be perfectly
happy for Sudden Death to disappear.  While we're at it...get rid of
"exceptions" to the 50-move rule.

Well...you *did* ask!




-- 
Kenneth Sloan                   Computer and Information Sciences
sloan@cis.uab.edu               University of Alabama at Birmingham
(205) 934-2213                  115A Campbell Hall, UAB Station 
(205) 934-5473 FAX              Birmingham, AL 35294-1170
Organization: Doctoral student, Psychology, Carnegie Mellon, Pittsburgh, PA