HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.slovak-l
Date:         Fri, 4 Sep 1992 10:12:11 PDT
From:         lhdsy1!HOVMB.HOU281.CHEVRON.COM!TKMARC@UUNET.UU.NET
Subject:      Martin Masek

Martin: could you please send me your email address for private
communication? Thanks.

Apologies to everyone else--our network mailer strips the addresses
from the incoming files and I had to use the forum to reach Martin.

--Kamil Marcinka (Internet address: tkmarc@hovmb.ion.chevron.com)
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Date:         Thu, 27 Aug 1992 21:33:01 EST
From:         HAMMERL@UCS.INDIANA.EDU
Subject:      Re: Dusan Slobodnik

Jan,

	Thank you very much for the information on Dusan Slobodnik.
It seems to me that one of the basic requirements for a sound discussion
is that people have access to the same information.  We don't get very
much of what you have there.  Since there are so few articles on
Slovaks or Slovakia in the New York Times, I will try to post them.

	When I read the Skvorecky article, I was astonished that the
NYT would publish something so full of unsubstantiated claims.  It
was so clearly Slobodnik "bashing."  I don't know him personally, but
felt sorry for him, as the article seemed so patently unfair.

Best wishes,
Louise
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Date:         Wed, 26 Aug 1992 07:34:55 PDT
From:         lhdsy1!HOVMB.HOU281.CHEVRON.COM!TKMARC@UUNET.UU.NET
Subject:      Svedectvi
X-To:         uunet!ubvm.cc.buffalo.edu!slovak-l@uunet.UU.NET

>Excuse me, I don't hear about Svedectvi untill yet and I would wonder if
>more than thousand people in CSSR do.
>
>Marian Kubaska
>

Marian:

You're missing out a lot if you haven't read Svedectvi! Truly remarkable
publication, with many, many excellent articles. I think it is being
published somewhere in CSFR now and you may be able to order some
older issues. Give it a try!

It may not be more than thousand people--but all that really matters
is *which* thousand people.

--Kamil Marcinka (Internet address: tkmarc@hovmb.ion.chevron.com)
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Date:         Wed, 26 Aug 1992 07:37:06 +0100
From:         KUBASKA@CSBBYS51.BITNET
Subject:      new poll

A new opinion poll was revealed in PRAVDA,26.aug.92
The poll was held by Slovensky statisticky urad within 29.7-6.8.
There was 1149 respondents in Slovakia.
The question was about trust to the politicians.(exact question is not
published)
The table of persons in positive sense follows:
1      Meciar        50,3%
2      Weis          28.3%
3      Dubcek        15.1%
4      Klaus         14.7%
5      Havel          8.7%
6      Prokes         8.5%

61.1% respondents of age 25-29 years voted in favour of Meciar
56.7% of workmen voted in favour of Meciar
The highest percentage for Meciar was in middle Slovakia- 56.2%

11% of respondents trust nobody

Marian Kubaska
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Date:         Wed, 2 Sep 1992 09:20:47 EDT
From:         Henry Kucera <HENRY@BROWNVM.BITNET>
Subject:      Re: Constitution of Slovak republic

 The interesting thing about the preamble to the Constitution is its beginning:
"My, narod slovensky..." (We, the Slovak nation...). Apparently, this wording
 replaced an earlier draft which said  "We, the citizens of Slovakia..."
  Before the final vote, the Hungarian members of the parliament walked out.

  I offer this just for your information, with no comment. H.K.
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Date:         Thu, 27 Aug 1992 07:36:00 PDT
From:         lhdsy1!HOVMB.HOU281.CHEVRON.COM!TKMARC@UUNET.UU.NET
Subject:      Addressing
X-To:         uunet!ubvm.cc.buffalo.edu!slovak-l@uunet.UU.NET

>  Slovenska Genealogicko-heraldicka spolocnost
>     Matica Slovenska
>   Novomeskeho 32
>   036 52  Martin
>    Slovak republic
>    CSFR
>
>    Jan George Frajkor

Mr Frajkor, just curious, is "Slovak republic" a required part of
the address, or does it speed up the delivery?

--Kamil Marcinka (Internet address: tkmarc@hovmb.ion.chevron.com)
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Date:         Thu, 3 Sep 1992 14:21:21 +0100
From:         KUBASKA@CSBBYS51.BITNET
Subject:      Re: poetry in slovakia

"..and Czechs will get the chance of escaping the constant Slovak attacks..."
Poor Czechs, they were subject of Slovak attacks for 70 years, but thanks
God, they have the chance to break free and escape from Slovak supression
and intimidation, these days.
If you,Mr Kucera, call the criticizm and legitimate demands contained in
Cleveland treaty, Pitsburgh treaty, Paris conference, Kosice's goverment
programm and constitution of CSSR by the word attacks, OK.
But what name would you use for constant violation of these treaties and
agreements by Czech politicians?

I' looking forward to your answer.

Marian Kubaska
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Date:         Fri, 4 Sep 1992 12:09:37 METDST
From:         Masek <usarmase@SAVBA.CS>
Subject:      Re: Paradigm shift

Dear Mr.Kubaska,
are you able define "national interest"? At least your "national interest"?
Martin Masek, Bratislava
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Date:         Thu, 3 Sep 1992 09:34:13 -0400
From:         "Pavol Navrat" <navrat@ELF.STUBA.CS>
Subject:      Re: Constitution of Slovak republic
X-To:         SLOVAK-L@UBVM.cc.buffalo.edu
              2, 92 9:20 am

>
>  The interesting thing about the preamble to the Constitution is its
 beginning:
> "My, narod slovensky..." (We, the Slovak nation...). Apparently, this wording
>  replaced an earlier draft which said  "We, the citizens of Slovakia..."
>   Before the final vote, the Hungarian members of the parliament walked out.
>
>   I offer this just for your information, with no comment. H.K.
>

The preamble includes BOTH formulations, thus expressing both nation AND
citizens as principles of fundamental importance, and includes
nationalities and ethnic groups as well:

My narod slovensky, ...
E>We, the Slovak nation, ...

odkazu Velkej Moravy, vychadzajuc z prirodzeneho prava narodov na sebeurcenie,
E>...originating from the natural right of nations to
E>selfdetermination
spolocne s prislusnikmi narodnostnych mensin a etnickych skupin na uzemi
E>along with members of all nationalities and ethnic grops living ...

 teda my, obcania Slovenskej republiky, uznasame sa prostrednictvom
E>... also we, the citizens of the Slovak Republic, ...
svojich zastupcov na tejto ustave.

The order chosen is said to be based on the UN Constitution which
acknowledges right of nations to selfdetermination, but not of groups of
citizens.

I offer this just for your information, no comment.

P.Navrat
From: paco@cs.rice.edu (Paul Havlak)
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.slovak-l
Subject: Benes and Sudeten Germans (was Re: poetry in slovakia)
Date: 4 Sep 1992 19:45:25 GMT
Reply-To: Paul Havlak <paco@cs.rice.edu>
Organization: Center for Research on Parallel Computations


    Eesh.  My leanings are pro-Czech (I believe my ancestors to be
Moravian), and I usually agree with Mr. (Dr.?) Kucera.  However, he's
stretching things a bit here.
    My reading of history isn't very favorable to Mr. Benes.  He
seemed to be more interested in expelling the Sudeten Germans after
the war than in fighting the Nazi Germans in 1938.

Henry Kucera <HENRY@BROWNVM.BITNET> writes:
>...								You know, the
>Germans (including the Sudeten ones) behaved atrociously towards the Czechs for
>some six years. Perhaps the situation should have been handled differently.
>...

    I don't know much about the Sudeten Germans' actions during the
war.  From my readings about the Munich crisis in 1938, the vast
majority of Sudeten Germans reported to their reserve assignments,
were prepared to defend Czecho-Slovakia, and did not support the Nazi
fifth column.
    What "atrocious" actions are attributed to the Sudeten Germans
during the war?  Excluding, of course, the minority that was Nazi
before 1938.
--
Paul Havlak			Dept. of Computer Science
Graduate Student		Rice University, Houston TX 77251-1892
PFC/ParaScope projects		(713) 527-8101 x2738 	paco@cs.rice.edu
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Date:         Thu, 3 Sep 1992 13:03:00 N
From:         FALK2399@DS0RUS54.BITNET
Subject:      Stalin's deportations of nations not a nationality problem ?

.......
>For Commuinists, there was no nationality problem, only
>a class warfare one which was clearly solved when Communist regimes
>took over in East Germany, Hungary, and everywhere else.
>  That is why there are hungarians in Slovakia today. Their end of it
.......
>It was not completed when the Communists halted it.  Your impression
>that it was a Commy idea probably comes from a recent article in
>Lidove Noviny, which is specializing these days in denying history.
>     Jan George Frajkor

Hallellujah, The teacher has spoken! But what a surprise to me! Stalin's
deportations  of Volga Germans or Crimea Tartars or elimination of Don Cossacs
shouldn't be any nationality problem, at least not for Stalin! However The
teacher may use all his power to convince us that Stalin wasn't a communist and
hadn't had any influence on what happened in Czechoslovakia (The teacher calls
it CSFR) after the end of the WWII. It occurs, not just Lidove noviny may be
specializing in denying history these days!?

But to be more serious again: Is there really any point in reading and
responding such pathetic lectures other than our christian duty of visiting
and assisting a seriously ill person whose fierce agression obviously needs
a regular exhibition of an ill-minded action? Unfortunately some people
are not accepting the Romans 12:21 " Do not be overcome by evil, but overcome
evil with good" just because they don't accept Mr. Havel who has repeatedly
reminded of it.

Regards,

M. Havranek, Stuttgart, FRG
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Date:         Thu, 3 Sep 1992 11:07:34 EDT
From:         Henry Kucera <HENRY@BROWNVM.BITNET>
Subject:      Re: Constitution of Slovak republic

>>  The interesting thing about the preamble to the Constitution is its
> beginning:
>> "My, narod slovensky..." (We, the Slovak nation...). Apparently, this wording
>>  replaced an earlier draft which said  "We, the citizens of Slovakia..."
>>   Before the final vote, the Hungarian members of the parliament walked out.
>>
>>   I offer this just for your information, with no comment. H.K.
>>
>
>The preamble includes BOTH formulations, thus expressing both nation AND
>citizens as principles of fundamental importance, and includes
>nationalities and ethnic groups as well:
>
>My narod slovensky, ...
>E>We, the Slovak nation, ...
>
>odkazu Velkej Moravy, vychadzajuc z prirodzeneho prava narodov na sebeurcenie,
>E>...originating from the natural right of nations to
>E>selfdetermination
>spolocne s prislusnikmi narodnostnych mensin a etnickych skupin na uzemi
>E>along with members of all nationalities and ethnic grops living ...
>
> teda my, obcania Slovenskej republiky, uznasame sa prostrednictvom
>E>... also we, the citizens of the Slovak Republic, ...
>svojich zastupcov na tejto ustave.
>
>The order chosen is said to be based on the UN Constitution which
>acknowledges right of nations to selfdetermination, but not of groups of
>citizens.
>
>I offer this just for your information, no comment.
>
>P.Navrat

  That's really nice. And the ungrateful members of the ethnic minorities do
not even appreciate it. They offered numerous amendments, lost and eventually
walked out in protest. How strange. Moreover, they issued a statement today
worrying about their rights. Somebody should tell them how lucky they are.
They need a teacher, I think.

H.K.

P.S. BTW, the reference to the "heritage of Greater Moravia" in the Slovak
Constitution (which you did not translate) is also interesting. It may not be
well known but it was the Czech writer Karel Capek (a Masaryk biographer and a
"Czechoslovak" par exellence) who originally suggested after WW1 that the
coutry should not be called Czechoslovakia but "Greater Moravia." To complete
the irony, he did it--if I am not mistaken--in an essay in Lidove noviny, the
newspaper much mentioned (with ill will)  on this list.
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Via: uk.ac.mrc-crc; Fri, 28 Aug 1992 08:45:37 +0100
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.slovak-l
Date:         Fri, 28 Aug 1992 08:45:27 BST
From:         Francis Rysavy x3292 <frysavy@MRC-CRC.AC.UK>
Subject:      Re: Dusan Slobodnik
X-To:         SLOVAK-L@UBVM.cc.buffalo.edu
X-cc:         f.rysavy@mrc-crc.ac.uk

>
> Jan,
>
> 	Thank you very much for the information on Dusan Slobodnik.
> It seems to me that one of the basic requirements for a sound discussion
> is that people have access to the same information.  We don't get very
> much of what you have there.  Since there are so few articles on
> Slovaks or Slovakia in the New York Times, I will try to post them.
>
> 	When I read the Skvorecky article, I was astonished that the
> NYT would publish something so full of unsubstantiated claims.  It
> was so clearly Slobodnik "bashing."  I don't know him personally, but
> felt sorry for him, as the article seemed so patently unfair.
>
> Best wishes,
> Louise
>

As it is rather difficult to judge without a detailed knowledge of
facts, was it before or after the "Slovak Uprising" in 1944 when
Mr.Slobodnik was conscripted to the unpalatable outfit? I would,
probably naively, assume that an ablebodied, conscriptable seventeen
years old, would join the fight against the Nazis of whichever
nationality. I have known quite a few chaps from both sides of the
Beskydy Mountains, of the same age or even younger who did so.

Francis R.Rysavy, Harrow, UK
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Date:         Thu, 27 Aug 1992 11:41:47 EDT
From:         Stan Brunn <BRUNN@UKCC.UKY.EDU>
Subject:      Re: Addressing
              27 Aug 1992 07:36:00 PDT from
              <lhdsy1!HOVMB.HOU281.CHEVRON.COM!TKMARC@UUNET.UU.NET>

This raises an interesting question. Does it make any difference in sending ite
ms to Slovakia whether one addresses the mail Slovakia or Czech & Slovak FEd. R
epublic or Czechoslovakia?  My experience is that it takes from 10 days to two
weeks from US to Bratislava.  What have others expeienced? Stan Brunn
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Date:         Thu, 3 Sep 1992 13:58:41 +0100
From:         KUBASKA@CSBBYS51.BITNET
Subject:      Re: Stalin's deportations of nations not a nationality problem ?

I just can't figure it out why Stalin should have some interest in deporting
germans out of CSR.
Who will take advantage of that act? Russians or Czechs?
I'm convinced that we can find the truth by answering this question.


Marian Kubaska
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Date:         Thu, 3 Sep 1992 07:45:09 +0100
From:         KUBASKA@CSBBYS51.BITNET
Subject:      Re: Constitution of Slovak republic

Dear Mr. KUcera,
The problem with some people is, that they pick one word out of context.
It seems to me that you will be excellent subscribers to Lidove noviny.
The constitution really begins with "My narod slovensky"(We slovak nation),
but goes on with ..."spolu s prislusnikmi narodnostnych mensin a etnickych
skupin na uzemi Slovenskej republiky zijucich..."(...together with members
of national minorities and ethnic groups living in the territory of Slovak
republic...) and "teda my, obcania Slovenskej republiky..."(so that we,
citizens of Slovak republic...)

That is the thuth what you say,that in original goverment proposition the
constitution begins with "We citizens of ..."
That text was replaced by "We slovak nation..."in parliament discussion and
was inspired by historical and cultural traditions of Slovaks and by constitutio
   ns of other european nations (France, Italy, Spain,...) as well.


Respectfuly,
   Marian Kubaska
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Date:         Wed, 2 Sep 1992 15:45:12 EDT
From:         George Frajkor <gfrajkor@CCS.CARLETON.CA>
Subject:      Re: poetry in slovakia
X-To:         SLOVAK-L@UBVM.cc.buffalo.edu
              Rysavy x3292" at Sep 1, 92 9:10 am

Francis Rysavy x3292 writes:
>
> The plot really thickens. Are there any historical facts rather than
> emotions supporting these allegations. They might be of great interest
> to those who or whose families were expelled from the Sudetenland. I
> have so far naively believed that it was the Soviets rather than than
> the Czechs themselves who convinced the allies about the need to expel
> the Sudeten Germans from Czechoslovakia. Their motivation allegedly was
> that with the Germans inside the country the communists would never get
> in power.  Are there any reliable facts available ?
> Francis R.Rysavy Harrow, UK

          The whole idea of expelling the Sudenten germans was Benes'
own, as he outlines in his books, and it was carried out by the
Czechs. In fact the allies all balked at it at first, but Benes
persuaded them that a strong Germ,an minority would be another danger
to a Slavic state.  Ethnic cleansing is the word we use today.
Give credit to the Communists -- once they came to power in the
CSFR (or whatever its name was then) they actually halted the
deportations. For Commuinists, there was no nationality problem, only
a class warfare one which was clearly solved when Communist regimes
took over in East Germany, Hungary, and everywhere else.
  That is why there are hungarians in Slovakia today. Their end of it
was a program of exchange of property and people with Hungary
which was more complicated than the simple
confiscation and expulsion that the Czechs imposed on the Germans.
It was not completed when the Communists halted it.  Your impression
that it was a Commy idea probably comes from a recent article in
Lidove Noviny, which is specializing these days in denying history.


    Jan George Frajkor
 School of Journalism                      _!_
 Carleton University,                     __!__
 Ottawa, Ontario                            !
 Canada K1S 5B6                             !
   -- gfrajkor@ccs.carleton.ca --          /^\
  613 788-7404     fax:613 788-5604    /^\/   \/^\
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Date:         Tue, 1 Sep 1992 16:26:15 EDT
From:         Henry Kucera <HENRY@BROWNVM.BITNET>
Subject:      A. Dubcek

  Radio Free Europe reports that Alexander Dubcek was seriously injured in a
car accident on September 1. He is in a serious condition in a hospital.

Let's wish him a good recovery.
   H. K.
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Date:         Wed, 26 Aug 1992 07:10:04 +0100
From:         KUBASKA@CSBBYS51.BITNET
Subject:      Re: poetry in slovakia

Mr. Kucera
Thank's for advice, but it is no my intention to become a politician and
it never was.
So long

Marian Kubaska
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Date:         Thu, 27 Aug 1992 11:56:58 EDT
From:         George Frajkor <gfrajkor@CCS.CARLETON.CA>
Subject:      Re: Addressing
X-To:         SLOVAK-L@UBVM.cc.buffalo.edu
              "TKMARC@UUNET.UU.NET" at Aug 27, 92 7:36 am

lhdsy1!HOVMB.HOU281.CHEVRON.COM!TKMARC@UUNET.UU.NET writes:

> >   036 52  Martin
> >    Slovak republic
> >    CSFR
>
> Mr Frajkor, just curious, is "Slovak republic" a required part of
> the address, or does it speed up the delivery?

    Not required.. the zip code should work.  But Orleans, Ontario,
near Ottawa, is not Orleans, Quebec, near Quebec City, and Yorkville,
NS is not Yorkville, Ont..  so I presume (not knowing)  that if there
is a Martin, Czech republic,  it might speed delivery to let them know
that'as not the one I want.

    Jan George Frajkor
 School of Journalism                      _!_
 Carleton University,                     __!__
 Ottawa, Ontario                            !
 Canada K1S 5B6                             !
   -- gfrajkor@ccs.carleton.ca --          /^\
  613 788-7404     fax:613 788-5604    /^\/   \/^\
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Date:         Fri, 28 Aug 1992 11:05:34 EST
From:         HAMMERL@UCS.INDIANA.EDU
Subject:      Re: Dusan Slobodnik

At what age were young men conscripted in Slovakia during WWII?
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Date:         Wed, 26 Aug 1992 07:06:33 +0100
From:         KUBASKA@CSBBYS51.BITNET
Subject:      Re: poetry in slovakia

Mr. Kucera writes:
"... Svedectvi...one of the most important joutnals...undermined communism
in CSSR"
Excuse me, I don't hear about Svedectvi untill yet and I would wonder if
more than thousand people in CSSR do.
Communism in CSSR was undremined by next things:
  1 by itself alone
  2 by Gorbatschow's perestrojka
  3 by Reagan's line of economical pressure

Marian Kubaska
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Date:         Wed, 2 Sep 1992 13:12:41 METDST
From:         Masek <usarmase@SAVBA.CS>
Subject:      Re: Constitution of Slovak republic
X-To:         SLOVAK-L@ubvm.cc.buffalo.edu

Mr.Kubaska writes:
>    With  good  deal  of  satisfaction  I  may  announce  to all
>    contributors   of  Slovak-L,   that  the   first  democratic
>    constitution  of  Slovak  republic   was  passed  in  Slovak
>    parliament yesterday. The constitution start with:
>    (... continue)

However  this parliament  and this  government should  learn that
there  is  a  couple  of  people  which  doesn't  agree with this
constitution.  For  another  group  it  is  a  document  with  an
indifferent content.
Subscribers of this list should learn that during the creation of
first democratic  constitution a list  of "national enemies"  was
elaborated;  the work  on list  continue. What  do you think, Mr.
Kubaska, about it?

Martin Masek, Bratislava
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