From: steven@spxtech.qc.ca (Steve Potter)
Newsgroups: can.politics
Subject: Re: Access to English school: quotes
Date: 9 Sep 92 18:34:47 GMT
Distribution: can
Organization: Securiplex Technologies Inc., Montreal, Canada
X-Bytes: 5548

From article <12799@audetf>, by audetf@Software.Mitel.COM (Francois Audet):
> In article (Steve Potter) writes:
> ]I repeat: Quebec is a *predominantly* francophone society. Le "visage"
> ]francais du Quebec est un masque!. C'est bien evident.
> 
> Je ne vois pas pourquoi une societe ou le francais predomine n'as pas
> un visage francais. Et le masque encore moins.

Maybe you should take the mask off - you might be able to see better
with your eyes! :-)

> 
> ]The fact that some would prefer that the English community in Quebec
> ]did not "officially" exist makes it no less real.
> 
> Agreed, and it still doesn't have anything to do with the situation:
> Quebec is a francophone political entity and a francophone society
> with a sizable anglophone minority. Just like England is an anglophone
> politycal entity with some other linguistic minorities.

Quebec has a French community and an English community, both of which
use an official language of Canada. Both of which have the same 
political rights - don't they?

England doesn't have two official languages!

You must have studied geography in a French school in Quebec! :-)

> 
> ]I repeat: English is not a foreign language in Quebec. Why do some
> ]people keep trying to talk of Quebec as if it were?
> 
> I repeat also: English is not an official language in Quebec, and the
> Constitutional obligations on bilinguism in institutions were imposed
> by Ottawa (and are respected). This is not the case in other provinces.

English and French are both official languages in Canada. The constitution
says as much.

Constitutional obligations are only respected in Quebec as far as the 
Supreme Court is able to uphold them. Other provinces can use the
notwithstanding clause too. Other provinces are legally obliged to allow
minority language children access to schooling in their own language.

> 
> ]Except in some French schools in the M.C.S.C. where children are penalised
> ]for using English on the premises. Yes - it still happens! :-(
> ](I'm not sure of schools in other school boards - anyone aware?)
> 
> Ca se voit a Ottawa aussi. What's the point? Complain to the
> authorities, but try to be more tactfull if you want it to work.

The point? You forgot to leave your quote that generated the "Exception"
I gave as an example. Go check it for yourself.

> 
> ]The fears were unjustified. They are unjustified. The measures taken
> ]were unnecessary and extreme.
> 
> Extreme? Give me a break. I know some things were not done very well
> (especially by Boubou), but "extreme" is an exageration :-)

"Extreme: going to great or exaggerated lengths" {definition 1b}
"Extreme: a very pronounced or excessive degree" {def. 2a}
"Extreme: an extreme measure or expedient" {def. 3}
{Webster's 9th New Colegiate}

Read Prof. Henripin's testimony.

"Extreme" is not an exaggeration.

> 
> ME:
> ]] I'm not a supporter of the sign law, although I can see why it
> ]] happened, and there is no black-and-white solution on who's right or
> ]] who's wrong.
> ]
> ]People should be allowed to put commercial signs up in any language
> ]they want. That's business.
> 
> Read again what I said: I'M NOT A SUPPORTER OF THE SIGN LAWS. I AGREED
> WITH YOU!!!!

OK, you must have caught me off guard :-)

> 
> ]I won't get drawn into that one again. I have already expressed my views
> ]in that field. It started a whole discussion on racism with a lot of
> ]insults and accusations flying around. This is not productive.
> 
> Maybee you'll figure out that "racist" is a pretty big accusation and
> that calling someone a "racist" will not get you any respect.
> 

Tu as raison.

> ]I meant, how important is the English minority community to the life
> ]and character of Quebec society? (I think)
> ]Is it an essential part of Quebec?
> 
> It's an important part of Montreal.
> 



You left your remarks out here.

> ]In a country where English is an official language and English schools
> ]are available at public expense - what's your estimate?
> 
> Look, I agree with you on a few issues, especially on the sign laws.
> However, when I see statements like this it makes me want to revise
> may positions... :-(

What is wrong with allowing English speaking children to go to English
school?

The English system has lost 1/3 of its schools and more than half its
students since 1977.

Why is this such a problem for you?

I don't really believe that you are so mean spirited.

There is nothing wrong with English children learning French in an
immersion program in an English school is there?

> 
> I, like many other Quebecois, couldn't care less that Ottawa decided
> in 1867 that Quebec was supposed to support bilingual institutions,
> especially when it was the only province required to do so. If you
> want to get any support from the quebecois (francophones), it's not by
> quoting the Canadian Constitution (that applies unequally everywhere
> in Canada) that you will get any success.
> 

I don't recall mentioning 1867 provisions of any legislation from Ottawa,
did I?

I'm sorry if the Canadian Constitution is offensive to francophone
quebecois. The section I'm particularly interested in doesn't apply
in Quebec anyway.

Can you receommend an alternative stratagy?

-- 
  ///==================================================================\\\
  ||| Steve Potter:         steven%spxtech@CAM.ORG                     |||
  ||| Expertise/Experience: Computer Systems Engineering / Real Ale /  |||
  |||                       Politics in Education in Quebec            |||