HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: joni@cbnewsf.cb.att.com (joni.dunlap)
Subject: Re: Stop drinking step?
Organization: AT&T
Date: Tue, 14 Apr 1992 16:04:08 GMT

In article <schmitt.703255699@convex.convex.com> schmitt@convex.com (Herb Schmitt) writes:
>I had a newcomer stump me last nite. After 2-1/2 years in AA, and having
>worked the steps and sponsored various individuals, and *THINKING* I knew
>what the program was all about, I had a newcomer stump me!
>
>All he asked was: "What step do you stop drinking"!....."You all say that
>the primary purpose of this program is to stop drinking, then you come out
>with 12 steps that say nothing <literally> about stopping drinking!"
>
>Of course I am NOT really stumped in my own mind. I know that this is a
>process that is different for everyone who attempts the principles of the
>program. I happened to stop two days BEFORE I came back into AA. I know
>that not drinking is only a small part of the program, yet its everything.
>
>BUT HE HAD A VALID QUESTION...and I personally think that AA might just do
>the newcomer an injustice in this regard. Imagine sitting in the first few
>meetings and being confused. Oh, I know what some of you are thinking...
>"We all go through it and it comes eventually...don't mess with what works
>and has worked for so many years." But folks, even the tradition's and the
>step's wording in their current form evolved from misinterpretation and 
>misuse. 
>
>I would like some thoughts tossed back at me.
>
>Herb
>

I had worked the first step before I ever saw the first step. I knew that I
had to stop drinking and drugging but I didn't know how to do it. After
loosing my job and going on a three day binge I was either going to kill 
myself or ask for help. If that is not unmanagable then I don't know what the
meaning is. As you can see I did ask for help. I knew that things were not
going to get any better if I didn't stop. So in answer to your question
which step is the step where you stop drinking? It's the first step.
If I can't pratice the first step on a daily basis I'm probally drinking.
If I can't admit that I am powerless over alcohol and all other mind
altering drugs then I will continue to use because then I will allow 
myself to think that I can control drinking and drugging and that I can
manage my own life while using them.

Joni
From: ah@mdcsc.UUCP (Alexander Herrera)
Newsgroups: alt.recovery
Subject: Alcoholics Anonymous pp 2-3
Date: 8 Apr 92 15:21:31 GMT
Article-I.D.: mdcsc.9204081521.AA13440

Alcoholics Anonymous: The Story of How Many Thousands of Men and
Women Have Recovered from Alcoholism: NEW AND REVISED EDITION,
Alcoholics Anonymous World Services, Inc., New York City, 1955.

This book (Big Book, second edition) is in the public domain.
=============================
pages 2 - 3

	Chapter 1 - Bill's Story (continued)
	
I took a night law course, and obtained employment as investigator for
a surety company. The drive for success was on. I'd prove to the world
I was important. My work took me about Wall Street and little by little
I became interested in the market. Many people lost money - but some
became very rich. Why not I? I studied economics and business as well
as law. Potential alcoholic as I was, I nearly failed my law course. At
one of the finals I was too drunk to think or write. Though my drinking
was not yet continuous, it disturbed my wife. We had long talks when I
would still her forebodings by telling her that men of genius conceived
their best projects when drunk; that the most majestic constructions of
philosophic thought were so derived.

By the time I had completed the course, I knew that law was not for me.
The inviting maelstrom of Wall Street had me in its grip. Business and
finacial leaders were my heros. Out of this alloy of drink and
speculation, I commenced to forge the weapon that one day would turn in
its flight like a boomerang and all but cut me to ribbons. Living
modestly, my wife and I saved $1,000. It went into certain securities,
then cheap and rather unpopular. I rightly imagined that they would
some day have a great rise. I failed to persuade my broker friends to
send me out looking over factories and managements, but my wife and I
decided to go anyway. I had developed a theory that most people lost
money in stocks through ignorance of markets. I discovered many more
reasons later on.

We gave up our positions and off we roared on a motorcycle, the sidecar
stuffed with tent, blankets, a change of clothes, and three huge
volumes of a financial reference service. Our friends thought a lunacy
commission should be appointed. Perhaps they were right. I had some
success at speculation, so we had a little money, but we once worked on
a farm for a month to avoid drawing on our small capital. That was the
last honest manual labor on my part for many a day. We covered the
whole eastern United States in a year. At the end of it, my reports to
Wall Street procured me a position there and the use of a large expense
account. The exercise of an option brought in more money, leaving us
with a profit of several thousand dollars for that year.
From: rkg@rkg.austin.ibm.com (Richard K. Gebhardt)
Newsgroups: alt.recovery
Subject: Re: Two programs/two sponsors
Date: 10 Apr 92 16:17:50 GMT
Reply-To: gebhardt@ausvmq.vnet.ibm.com (Richard K. Gebhardt)
Distribution: usa
Organization: IBM AWD, Austin

This really hits me because I had an AlAnon sponsor who was not
enthusiastic for my OA greysheet program.  He was about 60 lbs.
overweight at the time.  He finnally fired me 4 months later (about 
the time that I reached my goal).  Today he is about 90 lbs. over
and still in denial.  It hurts me to seem him, but as he would 
point out, I can't control him, which is something that he never 
tried to do to me.  I'm sure that my reduced physcial presence 
and the wonderful gifts which I have from my greysheet absinence
were a constant reminder of his own pain.  He had a long background
in recovery, 15 years in AA, 3 years in AlAnon, 0 days in OA.

This is only *MY* experience, I don't know your sponsor, but I
urge you to condsider whether just being sober is going to remove
the obsession that I think that you must experience about food.
And to consider that if you remain abstinent, that you will also
be dry.  Consider then, the most important part, on a daily 
basis: what is the best thing for your emotional sobriety and
your spiritual growth.

I urge you, dont eat no matter what.  Weigh and measure your 
food, eat your meals on time, and show up for life.  Follow
the guidance of your higher power.  And in my opinion, that is
not your sponsor, either one.  What will make your life more
managable today?

My words do not reflect my employer's position and visa versa.
....................................................................
Richard K. Gebhardt         |
IBM AIX OEM/ISV Tech. Supt. |  
Internal Zip 2830           | internet: gebhardt@ausvmq.vnet.ibm.com
11400 Burnet Rd.            |    voice: (512) 838-4683
Austin, Texas, 78758        |
From: ah@mdcsc.UUCP (Alexander Herrera)
Newsgroups: alt.recovery
Subject: Alcoholics Anonymous pp 321-322
Date: 7 Apr 92 15:15:10 GMT
Article-I.D.: mdcsc.9204071515.AA11926

Alcoholics Anonymous: The Story of How Many Thousands of Men and
Women Have Recovered from Alcoholism: NEW AND REVISED EDITION,
Alcoholics Anonymous World Services, Inc., New York City, 1955.

This book (Big Book, second edition) is in the public domain.
=============================
pages 321 - 322

	   RUM, RADIO AND REBELLION (part 5 of 12)

My work kept me busy the first few months on the new job. It was
strictly a one man operation and I knew I had to tend to my knitting
to make a go of it. Furthermore, I knew that I was looked upon as a
city slicker from New York, and I had to be pretty cautious among
small town, conservative Yankees. One of the things I needed badly was
business for the station. New programming was beginning to build an
audience, but sponsors were pretty scarce. I got around this by
joining the Rotary Club, and through this association with the
business men of the community my little station began to grow. It
also was the beginning of another cycle in my drinking. It started
when I joined a few of the men for cocktails before the noonday
Rotary luncheon. Before long I was at the luncheon meetings an hour
before the others, that old and familiar trademark of every
alcoholic. Since the radio station was getting on its feet, it didn't
require so many nights of evening work, and that permitted leisure
time for drinking. After all - wasn't I entitled to it? I sure had
been working awfully hard of late. It wasn't long before I became a
five o'clock alcoholic. During this time I faithfully was writing my
girl in Utah. Of course I kept her posted on how well the station was
doing and wrote convincing letters of how well I was doing with the
liquor problem. My salesmanship was still good, for in the fall of
1938 she called me from Salt Lake and finally agreed to take me on for
better or for worse. We married in Montreal in November.
Newsgroups: alt.recovery
From: david@perle.UUCP (David L.)
Subject: One Day At A Time In Al-Anon
Organization: Perle Systems Ltd.
Date: Wed, 15 Apr 1992 16:28:28 GMT

From "ONE DAY AT A TIME IN AL-ANON", copyright 1973, by 
Al-Anon Family Group Headquarters, Inc.  Reprinted by 
permission of Al-Anon Family Group Headquarters, Inc.

----------------------------------------------------------

APRIL 14

   Why do some of us do better than others in
grasping the Al-Anon program and using it to
solve our problems? Those who benefit most have
the courage to face their difficulties instead of
hiding them in some dark corner of their minds,
to set up a gnawing sickness of spirit.
   Most of us THINK we know what our problem
is; but do we really? One way to discover its real
nature is to write it out in detail. Putting it into
words on paper, where we can look at it and
correct it as our attitudes change, can be most
helpful in making us see it clearly.
  This should not be a catalog of grievances
against others, but an attempt to state the prob-
lem honestly. Thus we learn that not all the
difficulties were created by someone else, but by
US, too.

TODAY'S REMINDER

   Listing the good and bad elements in my situation
will give me new insight. I will begin correcting my
problems by changing myself. I will never try to
compel someone else to change, for that would help
neither of us.

       "Knowing that only complete honesty
	will bring me to self-understanding, I
	pray that my Higher Power will help	
	me guard against deceiving myself."
From: joni@cbnewsf.cb.att.com (joni.dunlap)
Newsgroups: alt.recovery
Subject: Re: Fear and indecision
Date: 13 Apr 92 19:35:21 GMT
Organization: AT&T

In article <2359@news.duke.edu> nielsen@math.duke.edu (Jeanne Nielsen) writes:
>I've been having a really hard time lately.  I've got to make a final 
>decision in the next few days that I don't want to have to make.  It
>essentially boils down to the best career move vs. the best move for my
>personal life.  Either way I go, I'm giving up something that there's
>much potential for me to regret years down the road.  This has been in
>the works for over a year, and I've had a strong feeling all year that
>the personal situation is the more important factor to me, and several
>things have happened in the last few months that makes deciding that
>way seem the most balanced thing to do, and I've more or less decided,
>and told lots of people what I'd decided, etc.  But when it comes
>right down to it, I can't seem to bring myself to fill out the forms
>I need to fill out to finalize the decision and send them in.  I'm
>absolutely terrified that I'm doing the wrong thing, ruining my life,
>that I'm giving the wrong things priority - basically that I'm not as
>capable as other people of making this decision wisely.  Of course
>the other alternative is equally, if not more frightening, so I don't
>think this means I should change my decision, either.  I think I just
>want someone to tell me that it's okay, that this won't affect my 
>career opportunities, that I can have everything I think is important.
>I know life doesn't work that way, really, and that everyone has to 
>make tough decisions like this, but I think this is the first time 
>I've had to make one with such a significant impact on the rest of my
>life.  
>
>Just wanted to get some of this off my chest - thanks for listening!
>
>				-Jeanne
>
>-- 
>   ***********************************************************************
>
>Jeanne Nielsen
>nielsen@math.duke.edu

Jeanne,

I can empathize with you. I've had to make some very big decisions about my
life since I came into the program. I had to rely on my faith in my HP.
I have and still do believe that my HP has not brought me this far to let
me fall on my face. That no matter what decision that I make in life it is 
always the right decision. I will always profit from it whether the
consequences are positive or negitive. If it is positive I will reap the
benifits. If it is negitive I will learn somthing from it and grow.
I pray to my HP to help me decide which path to take and take it. Next I
try my hardest not to second guess myself. Once I have made the decision
go through with it and accept it. Change is such a hard thing to deal with
at times I am soooo comfey living with the familiar. If I don't take a chance
I will never see whats on the other side. Life can be pretty dull living
in compalcency.

Joni :)
Newsgroups: alt.recovery
From: puckett@lambda.msfc.nasa.gov (Jim Puckett)
Subject: Re: Using Dreams
Organization: NASA/MSFC
Date: Tue, 14 Apr 1992 17:32:00 GMT

debrag@mattys.EBay.Sun.COM (Debra Giberson) writes:


>How come everytime I try and quit smoking I start to have
>using dreams. I start using the dreams as an excuse not
>to quit smoking. I REALLY want to quit! Got any Input?

well, my AA sponsor (who had five years off cigarettes at the time)
told me,' Put 'em down and sweat for a month.'

and I kept working the steps. It has been a little over a year since
then, and it has never seriously occurred to me to smoke - yet 8-)

love and service,

jim p.

-- 
Jim Puckett    NTI    puckett@freedom.msfc.nasa.gov     
Huntsville,AL (205)544-8457

*****!Practice random kindness and senseless acts of beauty!*****
From: joannee@sco.COM (Joanne Eglash)
Newsgroups: alt.recovery
Subject: Pain
Date: Thu, 09 Apr 92 19:05:15 GMT
Distribution: na
Organization: The Santa Cruz Operation, Inc.


Ouch. Ouch. Ouch.

I have been diagnosed as suffering from an inflamed sacroiliac. 
The doctor gave me two bottles of little pills, blue and pink. 
Blue for the inflamation and pink for the pain. So I got home 
and contemplated the pain pills. Definitely not on my list of
good stuff for J's body.  I decided to just take the blue pills.
So I tried to open the childproof cap.  No luck. I hammered it.
I tried a fork. Nothing.  Pissed off and in pain, I tried to bite
it off.  Smash.  There went half of my front tooth. Fractured. 

Back from the dentist:  fractured the nerve, had a root canal done.
Advice from back doctor and dentist: take it easy.  

Now I am a compulsive person who HATES doing nothing, cannot stand
lying around the house....so naturally I went into work. Here I sit.
Tooth hurts. Back hurts. Poor me.  I hate being an adult sometimes.
I want my mommy (Donna Reed version, please!:-)

Joanne


Newsgroups: alt.recovery
From: joni@cbnewsf.cb.att.com (joni.dunlap)
Subject: Re: RULES....
Organization: AT&T
Date: Tue, 7 Apr 1992 17:56:14 GMT

In article <1992Apr3.222713.4045@gumby.dsd.trw.com> suhre@meltami.dsd.trw.com (Maurice E. Suhre) writes:
>In article <1992Apr2.123752.10784@bronze.ucs.indiana.edu> ssalter@silver.ucs.indiana.edu (Steve Salter) writes:
>>Bede_Jarrow@hikssrv.lib.purdue.edu (bron) says:
> 
>>The newcomer IS the most important person in a meeting...I don't
>>belive in oldtimers anyway...we all start anew each day, right? 
>
>Not quite.  Yes, we start each day anew, but we have different prior
>experiences and backgrounds.  Consider this scenario.  Suppose someone
>offered you a bet as to which of two people would maintain sobriety for
>the next 30 days.  One individual has 30 days, the other has 3 years.
>Who would *you* bet on?
>
>I think that prior program time, having worked the steps, and having
>developed a support group within the program including a sponsor are
>of great help in maintaining sobriety.  Newcomers, IMNSHO, just aren't
>at that level yet.  Not that they won't get there, but some do slip
>along the way.
>-- 
>Maurice Suhre
>suhre@trwrb.dsd.trw.com



SOME I've heard that only 10% of newcommers make it a year.

Joni :)
From: millman@ursa.UUCP (Phillip Millman)
Newsgroups: alt.recovery
Subject: Re: Sorry about that... ;<
Date: 14 Apr 92 01:09:13 GMT
Article-I.D.: ursa.26908
Organization: Bear Stearns, NY

Hey if you can do it on your own, that's great.  But for this drunk I was 
self-will run riot.  I also perfer to get better with other people 
'cause it sure beats being by yourself.

Books are OK but people are where its at.

(Give me a call when you stop white knuckle it.)



--

Phillip Millman					millman@bear.com

The opinions expressed are those of Phillip Millman and not that of 
Bear Stearns & Co. Inc.  I think it is better that way.
Newsgroups: alt.recovery
From: crystal@glia.biostr.washington.edu (crystal)
Subject: Re: my sponsor fired me!
Organization: University of Washington
Date: Mon, 13 Apr 1992 00:16:09 GMT

In <sagh3INNt10@agate.berkeley.edu> ronan@codon3 (Karen Ronan;161 GPBB;x2-0884) writes:

>In article <1992Apr12.221353.22743@watserv1.waterloo.edu> idfriedm@sunee.waterloo.edu (id friedman) writes:
>>you may be working a fine recovery programme in your mind
>>But you seem like there is alot of "SELF WILL" still going 
>>on 
>>Why do you not have a sponsor ?
>>Do you really believe you can do it on your own ?

>Well, I hope I'm working a fine recovery program in my mind.
>That's the only mind I have access to.
>And I am not opposed to self-will either.
>Yes, I can make it on my own. That's what I desire in my heart.
>I am not an island of isolation. I have a social life and I
>get help for things, but I cannot be beholden to anyone or
>have anyone in my life who claims to know what is best for me.
>I do not obey and I do not ask permission. If having a sponsor
>involves those things, I'm not in the least bit interested.

>-Karen

>ronan@codon2.berkeley.edu

>"Where the seller of stars, for a penny or two, will sell your
>Heart's desire to you."
Date: 13 Apr 92 00:16:09 GMT
Newsgroups: alt.recovery
Subject: Re: my sponsor fired me!

In <sagh3INNt10@agate.berkeley.edu> ronan@codon3 (Karen Ronan;161 GPBB;x2-0884) writes:

>In article <1992Apr12.221353.22743@watserv1.waterloo.edu> idfriedm@sunee.waterloo.edu (id friedman) writes:
>>you may be working a fine recovery programme in your mind
>>But you seem like there is alot of "SELF WILL" still going 
>>on 
>>Why do you not have a sponsor ?
>>Do you really believe you can do it on your own ?

>Well, I hope I'm working a fine recovery program in my mind.
>That's the only mind I have access to.
>And I am not opposed to self-will either.
>Yes, I can make it on my own. That's what I desire in my heart.
>I am not an island of isolation. I have a social life and I
>get help for things, but I cannot be beholden to anyone or
>have anyone in my life who claims to know what is best for me.
>I do not obey and I do not ask permission. If having a sponsor
i
s

send

me



>-Karen

>ronan@codon2.berkeley.edu
>"Where the seller of stars, for a penny or two, will sell your
>Heart's desire to you."
Date: 13 Apr 92 00:16:09 GMT
Newsgroups: alt.recovery
Subject: Re: my sponsor fired me!

In <sagh3INNt10@agate.berkeley.edu> ronan@codon3 (Karen Ronan;161 GPBB;x2-0884) writes:

>In article <1992Apr12.221353.22743@watserv1.waterloo.edu> idfriedm@sunee.waterloo.edu (id friedman) writes:
>>you may be working a fine recovery programme in your mind
>>But you seem like there is alot of "SELF WILL" still going 
>>on 
>>Why do you not have a sponsor ?
>>Do you really believe you can do it on your own ?

>Well, I hope I'm working a fine recovery program in my mind.
>That's the only mind I have access to.
>And I am not opposed to self-will either.
>Yes, I can make it on my own. That's what I desire in my heart.
>I am not an island of isolation. I have a social life and I
>get help for things, but I cannot be beholden to anyone or
>have anyone in my life who claims to know what is best for me.
>I do not obey and I do not ask permission. If having a sponsor
>involves those things, I'm not in the least bit interested.

>-Karen

>ronan@codon2.berkeley.edu

>"Where the seller of stars, for a penny or two, will sell your
>Heart's desire to you."
Date: 13 Apr 92 00:16:09 GMT
Newsgroups: alt.recovery
Subject: Re: my sponsor fired me!

In <sagh3INNt10@agate.berkeley.edu> ronan@codon3 (Karen Ronan;161 GPBB;x2-0884) writes:

>In article <1992Apr12.221353.22743@watserv1.waterloo.edu> idfriedm@sunee.waterloo.edu (id friedman) writes:
>>you may be working a fine recovery programme in your mind
>>But you seem like there is alot of "SELF WILL" still going 
>>on 
>>Why do you not have a sponsor ?
>>Do you really believe you can do it on your own ?

>Well, I hope I'm working a fine recovery program in my mind.
>That's the only mind I have access to.
>And I am not opposed to self-will either.
>Yes, I can make it on my own. That's what I desire in my heart.
>I am not an island of isolation. I have a social life and I
>get help for things, but I cannot be beholden to anyone or
>have anyone in my life who claims to know what is best for me.
>I do not obey and I do not ask permission. If having a sponsor
>involves those things, I'm not in the least bit interested.

>-Karen

>ronan@codon2.berkeley.edu

>"Where the seller of stars, for a penny or two, will sell your

send

#

>Heart's desire to you."
From: starshine@igc.org
Newsgroups: alt.recovery
Subject: No one is hopeless or "gratitude"
Date: 8 Apr 92 01:12:00 GMT
Article-I.D.: igc.1309900040
Nf-ID: #N:cdp:1309900040:000:204
Nf-From: cdp.UUCP!starshine    Apr  7 18:12:00 1992


I am grateful to this group.  Since I started posting, I've been
able to work on my terminal problem - sloth - and I'm doing great! 
I've made some good friends here and I love you all.

Hugs,

Starshine
From: joannee@sco.COM (Joanne Eglash)
Newsgroups: alt.recovery
Subject: Sponsor followup
Date: Sun, 12 Apr 92 00:42:38 GMT
Distribution: na
Organization: The Santa Cruz Operation, Inc.


Thank you to all who gave me their experience, strength and
hope.  

I have asked another woman to become my A.A. sponsor. I also
read the pamphlet on sponsorship.  It was really helpful. 
I recognize that I tend to take other people as my Higher Power,
so that a sponsor's advice ("Don't attend other programs")
becomes to me like a voice from on high!  

My problem is that the other woman has a meeting at her house,
and I really like her meeting...but fear her sometimes sharp
tongue. I hate subjecting myself to a negative commentary if
I pitch at her meeting.  So next issue: is it "dishonest" to just
stop calling her, and hope she won't press me on the subject
of why I'm not using her as a sponsor. (Gawd, that sounds awful...
"using" her...well, I hope y'all know what I mean:  communicating
with her on a sponsor/sponsee level...)

Joanne
Newsgroups: alt.recovery