HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: hde+@cs.cmu.edu (Herbert Enderton)
Subject: Re: Comments during games
Organization: School of Computer Science, Carnegie Mellon
Date: Tue, 17 Nov 1992 21:36:52 GMT

In article <BxtyM2.3Hy.2@cs.cmu.edu> hill@norman.VI.RI.CMU.EDU (Robert Hill) writes:
> In <Bxsq20.Fzw.1@cs.cmu.edu> hde+@cs.cmu.edu (Herbert Enderton) writes:
> 
> >I still haven't found an effective way to give advice to a teammate
> >without his taking it as an insult.  Anybody found a way?  
>
>Well, as I see it you have two choices.  You can insult them alot, or beg  
>with them.  I frequently say "please bomb", or "please ogg R3".  I think  
>that it tends to get better results then "god damn it, ogg R3 you stupid  
>moron twinks".  Of course, if this fails, I lose my composure...:-).

There are two types of advice, I guess:  "do X" and "don't do Y".  I
actually had the latter in mind.  E.g. say there's somebody on my team
who is consistently making the same mistake, and I just have to say
something because it's too painful to watch.  E.g. somebody is dropping
two armies at a time on an agri.  Or trying to catch a scout bomber
with a battleship.  Or taking several minutes to carry armies a
ridiculously long route through third space.  When I'm feeling
especially patient, I try to explain the idea I think they're missing,
e.g. I'll say there's server code that makes agris with fewer than four
armies pop especially fast (except on bronco).  But it's pretty hard to
effectively explain anything over the message board, partly because you
can't see whether the guy nods or looks confused.  Usually I'm in a
hurry, and I tell them that instead of doing what they're doing they
should do this other thing, and I just hope that they either see why or
just trust me.  This seldom works; they think I'm implying they're
stupid, and they argue.

The "do X" type of advice is what the team leader needs to give in
order to organize the team, either for coordinated action or to make
sure all the essential tasks get done.  I think it would be cool if
people would respect the authority of anybody who wants to take charge
of the team, deferring to rank in case there's more than one would-be
leader.  That way we'd get more teamwork, and anyway leading a team is
kind of a fun power-trip that everybody should try some time.  However,
I seem to be in the minority in this opinion; there is little respect
for orders given in pickup games, no matter how they are phrased.  So I
stick with messages like "Eri @ 10" or "I'm ogging the base now", and
hope that a couple people take appropriate action.

  -- Red Shirt
Newsgroups: rec.games.netrek
From: oneill@cs.ulowell.edu (Brian 'Doc' O'Neill)
Subject: Re: Biggest Scum Ever
Originator: oneill@bigmax.ulowell.edu
Organization: University of Massachusetts at Lowell Computer Science
Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1992 21:18:37 GMT


In article <1992Nov19.192936.9458@mnemosyne.cs.du.edu>, gli@nyx.cs.du.edu (Garry Li) writes:
|> 
|> Today when I was playing netrek on patriot, some one logged in from MIT
|> with a name Sun (dont remember exactly what follows) BOY. The funny thing
|> is that he has make captain with 30 kills and 9 death. He has played for
|> 2 hrs but took 170+ planet(27+ planet ratio) and 5+ bombing ration and
|> 6+ defense ration. I thought that his stat may be messed up for soem
|> reason but he said it was skill. :-)
|> 

Must be some other server...there is no one whose name has "boy" in it who
is a Captain on patriot...

=======================================================================
Brian O'Neill - Systems Manager, Computer Science 	 (508) 934-3645
University of Massachusetts at Lowell
Internet: oneill@ulowell.edu		Moderator, comp.binaries.ibm.pc
From: fadden@uts.amdahl.com (Andy McFadden)
Newsgroups: rec.games.netrek
Subject: Re: Your ranting has become tiresome.
Date: 16 Nov 92 20:44:42 GMT
Organization: Amdahl Corporation, Sunnyvale CA

In article <Qf1dQhe00awR05K1p2@andrew.cmu.edu> tw1r+@andrew.cmu.edu (Timothy C. Worsley) writes:
>	Of course, you can trace them all back to StarTrek.  So, where did Gene
>Rodenberry go to school?

And of course, we wouldn't have had Gene if it weren't for his parents.  Where
did they go to school?

>ZZnew guy

-- 
fadden@uts.amdahl.com (Andy McFadden)
[ Above opinions are mine, Amdahl has nothing to do with them, etc, etc. ]
From: pjw@eniac.seas.upenn.edu (Streaker)
Newsgroups: rec.games.netrek
Subject: Re: New INL scheduling proposal:(long..please read this, however)
Keywords: READ THIS READ THIS READ THIS READ THIS
Date: 23 Nov 92 10:38:15 GMT
Organization: University of Pennsylvania


Opps, part of my last post got deleted.  I was saying that we can have a 
draft, where players submit themselves.  lets say that 200 people wanted to
be part of the INL>  Then that would mean about 16-18 teams, which means that 
we pick/select 16-18 captains.  Then they would proceed in selecting players 
from the pool in a round robin fashion.  

I hate emacs...... :P

Phil
aka Veep


Newsgroups: rec.games.netrek
From: rhodesia@wixer.cactus.org (Felix S. Gallo)
Subject: Re: Screaming at the Sun
Followup-To: rec.games.netrek
Organization: Real/Time Communications
Date: Tue, 17 Nov 92 05:40:03 GMT

spot@CS.CMU.EDU (Scott Draves) writes:
rhodesia@wixer.cactus.org (Felix S. Gallo) said:
>> [tale of woe re: 12am vs. team cp]

>here's what really happened: i (mergatroid, not spiff, not exxon, you
>amnesic buffoon) was scout bombing, waiting between vega and earth. 
>[and the rest of a completely different story deleted]

Hey, did you realize your NNTP posting host is called 'cobol'?  Isn't
that embarrassing?

Anyway, instead of getting into a long and tedious flame war about
something which happened several months ago, let me be the first
one to say "fine, whatever."  It's just not important anymore.  As
I've said in what at least feels like six consecutive posts now,
that stuff is the past.  I got my payback when 12AM went to the
playoffs over TCP.  The amount of acrimony I am willing to spend
on an ancient game of bad netrek would not fit in a rat's enema bag.
Let's just believe our different versions of the event and get on
with more important things.

>-- 
>				orgasm
>Scott Draves			nitrous
>spot@cs.cmu.edu			death

--
                                wheels
Felix Gallo                     rails
rhodesia@wixer.cactus.org       tires

-- 
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Felix Sebastian Gallo                              rhodesia@wixer.cactus.org
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: fadden@uts.amdahl.com (Andy McFadden)
Newsgroups: rec.games.netrek
Subject: Re: RSA (Was: RSA gobbledygook)
Date: 22 Nov 92 23:39:30 GMT
Organization: Amdahl Corporation, Sunnyvale CA

In article <1992Nov20.100250.27908@aragorn.unibe.ch> schuetz@iacrs2.unibe.ch writes:
>I think that this whole RSA stuff is overkill.

The only thing that's overkill is the over-reactions of various members of
this newsgroup.

New technologies take some time to settle.  If you want to run around screaming
"the sky is falling!" or organizing boycotts or whatever, fine, go ahead.  It
took 11 hours to write the basic UDP code, and two months to get it to where
it was ready for wide distribution; don't expect RSA to be any different.

If we can get PGP working or have it acknowledge that the Netrek RSA stuff
is for authentication only, maybe we can distribute the client binaries.  We'd
need to work something out for the keys, but rumors of a World-wide Netrek
Split are greatly exaggerated.

>Some RSA servers for people with borg persecution mania will be enough.

So why not just turn reserved.c off completely?  (We all know how well THAT
works.)

>-- Martin (Zaphod/Marvin)

-- 
fadden@uts.amdahl.com (Andy McFadden)
[ Above opinions are mine, Amdahl has nothing to do with them, etc, etc. ]
Newsgroups: rec.games.netrek
From: hill@norman.VI.RI.CMU.EDU (Robert Hill)
Subject: TCP needed in clients?
Reply-To: hill@norman.vi.ri.cmu.edu
Organization: School of Computer Science, Carnegie Mellon
Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1992 23:58:37 GMT


Hi.  Does anyone out there still use TCP?  I never do..even on local  
servers.  Do you think it would be good to eliminate TCP use?  As I  
understand it, TCP is much harder on networks than UDP, and sense only new  
players (who haven't heard about UDP) will use it (I think :) we should  
get rid of it.

Comments?

Rob
aka Spaceace!
From: mcp@cs.umd.edu (Mike Polek)
Newsgroups: rec.games.netrek
Subject: RSA Clients are cleared!
Date: 22 Nov 92 09:00:26 GMT
Organization: U of Maryland, Dept. of Computer Science, Coll. Pk., MD 20742

Yippee!  I've asked the sysadmin on pittslug to decrypt the clients.
He'll probably do it Monday morning when he comes in. I'll also work
on putting up a public version of the code. (a version without
the key generator, but mostly everything else) Then people would
only need to mail me if they want to generate a key for a new client.
I think we should have all architectures covered here in the US,
so compiling clients shouldn't cause any problems. 

As for servers, James has compiled a compatible "PGP" server,
so there should be no problem there.

Now our biggest problem will be knowing which keys go with which
clients. In the past we've been naming keys things like
key.sgi and key.sun4, etc. This only id's the architecture.
I think what we may have to do is use the key manager to 
create a .reserved entry and a catalog entry. We can tar them
together and make them something like key.sun4.bronco.tar.
Then gods will know the architecture and type of client. 
the catalog file will ID the creator, and has a place for
comments so that the exact features of the client can
be listed.

The .reserved and catalog files created can be directly appended
to the existing .reserved and catalog files on the server. 
What do people think? Is this a workable system? 

Thanks for your time...

Mike Polek
<mcp@cs.umd.edu>
From: polk@Metaphor.COM (Ben Polk)
Newsgroups: rec.games.netrek
Subject: Re: new no-profanity rule at rwd4
Date: 21 Nov 92 05:17:26 GMT
Reply-To: polk@Metaphor.COM (Ben Polk)
Organization: m4

In article <IeypZI200Vox0O8FAv@andrew.cmu.edu>, kb32+@andrew.cmu.edu (Kevin Michael Bernatz) writes:
|> Greetings all,
|> 	Discovery also has a no-profanity law... and speaking from experience,
|> "suck" is considered profane.  The server God also tends to be a little,
|> ahhh, "tight" on occasion and has indeed said damn on the all board and
|> not ejected himself.  If he's not going to allow profanity, I seriously
|> think he should consider how serious he takes the game.
|> 
|> -KB
|>  Rear Admiral Akira
|> 
|> F8->ALL : 01001001
|> Fe->ALL : That's Fuck in Binary!
|> God->ALL : Akira (Fe) was ejected from the game

But then the discovery server god is one of the biggest weenies around.
So you should know what to expect if you play there.

(I still can't believe he thought I was a borg.  God.  What does he
think when good people play there?)

Ben Polk
polk@metaphor.com
From: jwh@fat-controller.sodor (James "Oolon Colluphid" Hawtin)
Newsgroups: rec.games.netrek
Subject: Re: RSA question (Why only US and Canada)
Date: 18 Nov 92 17:48:16 GMT
Reply-To: jwh@fat-controller.sodor
Organization: School of Computer Science, The University of Birmingham, UK

In article 1ed02tINN853@charnel.ecst.csuchico.edu, trown@ecst.csuchico.edu (Nick Trown) writes:
> In article <1992Nov17.205958.16009@wam.umd.edu> theodore@wam.umd.edu writes:
> >I have a question on the RSA distribution policy.  Why is it that only  
> >citizens of the USA and Canada can recieve the code?  (BTW I am a US  
> >citizen, but I am wondering the logic at restricting access...)
> >
> 
> Well, here is the reasoning. The developers of RSA have a US patent on the
> stuff. Therefore they are worried that countries that they don't have a 
> patent will get it. That is why crypt is needed... Sorry all of
> you non-US and Canadian people.. :(
> 

Then Why use RSA you twinks?


			James.
> 
> Nick Trown
> Netherworld
> Server God of Guzzler(RSA)
From: hill@norman.VI.RI.CMU.EDU (Robert Hill)
Newsgroups: rec.games.netrek
Subject: Re: The use of profanity
Date: 23 Nov 92 05:11:25 GMT
Reply-To: hill@norman.vi.ri.cmu.edu
Organization: School of Computer Science, Carnegie Mellon

Alan D. Cabrera writes
> No one taught you to judge a person by his/her actions and not by their
> words, ever?  I for one will never let my kids go to school in
> Pennsylvania. :-)  The pronoun was you and the message was directed
> toward me is I made a concenptual leap, which I'm sure you'll all agree
> is pretty hard for me to do, and thought the pronoun meant me.  If it
> was meant to be a general comment on life then I apologize.

Nope.  Where I am from (no jokes, please :) to judge someone is a pretty  
bad thing.  I'm not saying I don't judge people, because I do, but if you  
are going to judge someone because you hear them say profanity, then you  
are judging someone else based on extremely limited information.  This is  
arrogant, and IMHO, wrong.

> Abusive?  I said condescending.  To be condescending one does not
> necessarily have to use profanity or be abusive.  The begining of your
> letter was pleasant it was the ending that I resented (see below).


> Oh gee, so you sent me, the person who "seem(s) like a nice reasonable
> guy", the mail message to save me from taking a lot of crap; as if I
> didn't know that I was going to get crap from the beginning?  The
> history of r.g.n is people giving other people alot of crap.  So you
> were magnanimois enough to send me your kind, sweet, message to save me
> from the from the horrors of the rath of r.g.n.  This is what I meant
> by condescending.  And because I didn't follow your advice you get
> angry with me.

I quote:

"You seem like a nice and reasonable guy, alan.  Unfortunately, I feel 
that you are going to take alot of crap for doing what you've done."

Gee, the first time i've been flammed for being nice to somebody.  My god,  
man, would you have felt better if I said "you stupid, fucking, clueless,  
twink?".

I don't get angry over rec.games.netrek.  If I did, i'd have shot justin  
by now...:-).


> An example of an angry paragraph, not a condescending paragraph.

Thanks for the help.  I don't know the difference..

> You've obviously neglected to read my previous posts or chose not to
> reference them to your advantage.  

Cool..do you copy and paste this around?  Seems like I see it alot, i  
mean, when I read your previous posts to reference them for my advantage.

I never re-read posts by twinks...

> The University server was sick. Also, I've only booted one person off of 
> discovery and only after repeated warnings.  But you didn't bother to 
> obtain the facts did you?

Nope...don't much care at this point.  Just bitching to bitch.  Pretty  
silly discussion.

> Robert, you were VERY polite.  But, you were still condescending.

Please, don't call me robert.  Only my co-workers call me that...

Rob
aka Spaceace!
Newsgroups: rec.games.netrek
From: ppregler@risc.uni-linz.ac.at (Peter Pregler)
Subject: Re: RSA question
Organization: RISC, J.K. University of Linz, Austria
Date: Wed, 18 Nov 1992 18:36:12 GMT

In article <books.112.0@fsunuc.physics.fsu.edu>, books@fsunuc.physics.fsu.edu
(Roger Books) writes:
....
> are both wrong.  The bogus thing about it is the world has written their
> own RSA stuff anyway.  PGP, Pretty Good Protection, uses public key
> crypto.  It's maintained and improved overseas.  For more info on this
> (and proposed mandatory private key registration), see SCI.CRYPT.
> 
> >David L. Miller                       Internet: dmiller@beta.tricity.wsu.edu

Correct, but let me cite Philip Zimmermann, the author of PGP. In his PGP
user's Guide Vol-II he writes:
---------
The Government has made it illegal in many cases to export good
cryptographic technology, and that may include PGP.  They regard this
kind of software as munitions.  This is determined by volatile State
Department policies, not fixed laws.  I will not export this software
out of the US or Canada in cases when it is illegal to do so under US
State Department policies, and I assume no responsibility for other
people exporting it on their own.

If you live outside the US or Canada, I advise you not to violate US
State Department policies by getting PGP from a US source.  Since
thousands of domestic users got it after its initial publication, it
somehow leaked out of the US and spread itself widely abroad, like
dandelion seeds blowing in the wind.  If PGP has already found its
way into your country, then I don't think you're violating US export
law if you pick it up from a source outside of the US.  And there are
no import restrictions on bringing cryptographic technology into the
USA.
---------------

I can see no essential difference between the current RSA-implementation and
using PGP. From a European POV getting one of them may violate US-law.
All we can do is implement this here in Europe and you can import it to the
States. However, there is no legal way to get the american blessed binaries
back to Europe. I can see no practical way out of this. So why not let these
naughty Europeans break good American law. In other words, don't release to many
updates of blessed binaries :).

Keep smiling, Peter.

-- 
Make a remark, it's ridiculous to leave all the conversation to the pudding.
-------------------------------
Peter Pregler / RISC, University of Linz, Austria
Bitnet: K315470@AEARN.BITNET  Internet: ppregler@risc.uni-linz.ac.at
Organization: Carnegie Mellon, Pittsburgh, PA
Newsgroups: rec.games.netrek
Date: Tue, 17 Nov 1992 02:27:32 -0500 
From: Rick <stimpy+@cmu.edu>
Subject: Re: IC forfiets
	<Qf1=KTW00awXApf0ZX@andrew.cmu.edu>
	<1992Nov16.214444.9633@ll.mit.edu>
	<1992Nov16.215941.10017@ll.mit.edu>

some mit twink writes:
#
# Oh... and one more point, if TEAM A can play at any time except midnight and
# TEAM B can only play at midnight, why should TEAM A have to forfeit
#
[...]
# It does seem strange that our team has a few CMU people on it and they never
# had any problems getting computers to play on

Your team has 3 cmu players on it, two of whom have their own machine
they can play on. Sure, there are some nights when there are many
machines open before midnight, but you CAN'T count on that happening.
So it's a Very Bad Idea to schedule a game on a weeknight before midnight.
Also, midnight here is only  9pm on the west coast, where BOTH our
teams have players. If you try to play earlier here, then they can
have problems finding machines out there.

But all this isn't even the point. Rob told you, YOUR captain picked
the time. We would have played on the weekend. We would have played
anytime. I'm sure we'd still be willing to scrimmage you. But stop
blaming your forfeit on us. Talk to your captain about it. He just
"chunged" an INL game.

--Tomato Boy
Valet at the Motel Spaceace!
PT Nurse for Yea Boy at the retirement home.
Newsgroups: rec.games.netrek
From: danny@cs.su.oz.au (Danny)
Subject: Re: Lag and the standard on bronco (SC bombers rule!)
Organization: Basser Dept of Computer Science, University of Sydney, Australia
Date: Tue, 24 Nov 1992 02:20:47 GMT

In article <Bxty3n.37r.2@cs.cmu.edu> hill@norman.VI.RI.CMU.EDU (Robert Hill) writes:
>Well, danny is used to australian trek, where people take bases out in 3  
>on 3 wars (each side no less).  I think this is always a poor strategical  
>move on 3 on 3 games, and often a poor move on 8 on 8 games.  Sometimes it  

I only keep a base when it drops to 3 on 3 if I'm worried about being
genocided.  In an 6+ on 6+ game I will always base - if a base knows what 
they are doing then they can always make themselves useful.

>isn't good to have a base...as a matter of fact most of the time it isn't  
>useful at all in a pickup game.  Basing isn't that much fun either,  
>because you have to sit back or you die...if you sit back then you don't  
>see much action and you move up and die..cruel cycle :)

Well you need patience to be a good base.  You also have to be prepared to
risk dying.  I have no patience with bases who sit around doing nothing much
in their core.  Or with bases who wander up to the front line for no good
reason.  Actually I have no patience with players in any kind of ship who
just wander around with no clear cut goal.

>> > Just wait till the West-Pacific Rim fibre optic cable comes in!!
>> This would be way cool! (:
>
>Me neither...bring on Clown....:)

Yep!  And I might even be able to base on bronco without embarassing myself!

ICMP Redirect - SC bomber with lag
Death - scumming for Admiral with ratings 12+
danny - best base in the Southern Hemisphere

Newsgroups: rec.games.netrek
From: jch+@cs.cmu.edu (Jonathan Hardwick)
Subject: Re: I killed myself
Organization: School of Computer Science, Carnegie Mellon
Date: Mon, 16 Nov 1992 21:13:59 GMT

bgunzy@iastate.edu (Bob Gunzenhauser) writes (grrrr 80 column mind)
> This quirk has been bugging me for a while, since I don't know what happened.
> I was playing at doorstop a few weeks ago.  I had plasma torps, so I decided 
                                              ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
> to ogg someone.
  ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Shome mishtake shurely?

> I was in a cruiser.  I cloaked, shields up, and came at him.
> As soon as I got to him, I uncloaked, hesitated a little, then fired
> the plasma and some photons.  Both of us were destroyed, yet the
> review window said that I was kill 1.10 for myself and my opponent
> was kill 2.10 for me also! 
> 
> What happened?  Does it have to do with the plamsa damage or something?

Yes.  Even on "we won't let you kill twink teammates by towing them to
the edge of the galaxy and catching them in wall-torp-explosions"
servers, you can still kill teammates/yourself using plasmas.  You
just have to have something to detonate the plasma (either an enemy or
a wall).

There is a school of thought that defensive uses of this tactic (ie
killing yourself by plasma to avoid being killed with armies) should
be called "Chunging".  Or maybe "Gregging".

Boy "I vote for Chunging" Sprouts
From: bav@hobbes.ksu.ksu.edu (Brick Verser)
Newsgroups: rec.games.netrek
Subject: Re: Comments during games
Date: 16 Nov 1992 21:59:16 GMT
Organization: Kansas State University
NNTP-Posting-Host: hobbes.ksu.ksu.edu

theodore@wam.umd.edu writes:
>                   But being insulting is not a way to help me.  I am sure  
>he meant it in the best way possible, to really help my game (that was not  
>sarcastic.  I am sure he meant well.).  But it was not delivered in such a  
>manner.

Hockey, more so than regular pickup netrek, requires teamwork.  It
really is important for the players to have some idea of the skill of
their teammates.  I recall one comment something like "should I not
pass to K6?"  That was a legitimate query, I think, which unfortunately
may have mashed someone's feelings a little.  And of course, one's
patience in explaining things is often determined by how well one is
playing and how much time one has.  Playing goalie I often have time to
send a few explanatory messages.  Playing frenetic scout I consider myself
lucky to have time to send a simple "no fuel" or "pass left" message.

And then there was the player who sat almost the whole time in orbit
around KLI sometimes cloaking, sometimes not, sometimes firing, sometimes
not, but never really doing anything the whole game.  Never did figure
out why he was there, but it was kinda irksome.  Some people are just
so far gone that it's clear two or three messages won't help 'em play
better.

I'll repeat some standard hockey advice:

  Join the hockey server when nobody else is playing and learn how to
  handle the puck before you join a game for real.  Bounce the puck
  off the walls and learn how to catch it, how to shoot it, and how
  deflections works.  Don't try this all for the first time in a game
  with 7 other people.

--Brick
Newsgroups: rec.games.netrek