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Date:         Tue, 7 Apr 1992 17:15:36 EDT
Reply-To:     Bill McGarry <wtm@sheldev.shel.isc-br.com>
From:         Bill McGarry <wtm@sheldev.shel.isc-br.com>
Subject:      Handicap Digest # 2562
X-To:         LHCAP <l-hcap@VM1.NODAK.EDU>

                          THE HANDICAP DIGEST

                               Issue # 2562

                           Tuesday, April 07, 1992

Today's Topics:


                                ******


                   Sciatica symptoms with "ruptured disc"
                                Re: Migraines
                              Re: Valerian Root
                              Re: Shots for RSD
                             Re: Drug companies
                                  Adhesions
                                    Pain
                       Birmingham Pain Clinic Visit #4
                     Re: Birmingham Pain Clinic Visit #4
                                Chronic pain


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Subject: Sciatica symptoms with "ruptured disc"
From: Arthur.Saus@p160.f72.n376.z1.fidonet.org (Arthur Saus)
Organization: FidoNet node 1:376/72.160 - Windows of the Worl, Columbia SC


[This is from the Chronic Pain Conference]

>> Also what causes the pain to
>> be in both legs... when I had my surgery 7 years ago the disc had
>> popped out only on the right side and so I always thought it could
>> only protrude on one side not both at the same time!

> Also, when you've had surgery, the
> surgery area is going to be weakened. This may have
> something to do with it, too.  Anybody reading over our
> shoulder know for sure?

When questions like this appear, I wish there was some way to
include drawings in these discussions, rathe than just text.  Since
I don't know any way to include a picture to show you why a
"ruptured disc" can cause pain in both legs, I'll just have to tell
you that it can easily happen depending on where the bulge and
surrounding tissue reaction to that bulge happens.  Most are
unilateral, that is when one side only is affected, but if the
bulge is directly posterior instead of toward one side or the
other, both sides can be easily affected.

--
Uucp: ..!{decvax,oliveb}!bunker!hcap!hnews!376!72.160!Arthur.Saus
Internet: Arthur.Saus@p160.f72.n376.z1.fidonet.org




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Subject: Re: Migraines
From: Arthur.Saus@p160.f72.n376.z1.fidonet.org (Arthur Saus)
Organization: FidoNet node 1:376/72.160 - Windows of the Worl, Columbia SC


[This is from the Chronic Pain Conference]

Hang on to your hats, folks.  Glaxo Pharmaceutical Company has just
started advertising in medical journals that they will soon be
introducing a new drug for Migraine Headache therapy.  I don't know
any specific information about this yet, not even the name of the
drug, but there has been talk within the medical community for
years that they were putting a significant research effort into
developing a much better drug for Migraine Headaches than has ever
been available before.  I'll be happy to share any further
information as I hear about it, but keep your eyes and ears open
for an announcement from Glaxo; I believe this may come within the
next few months to a year.

--
Uucp: ..!{decvax,oliveb}!bunker!hcap!hnews!376!72.160!Arthur.Saus
Internet: Arthur.Saus@p160.f72.n376.z1.fidonet.org




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Subject: Re: Valerian Root
From: Arthur.Saus@p160.f72.n376.z1.fidonet.org (Arthur Saus)
Organization: FidoNet node 1:376/72.160 - Windows of the Worl, Columbia SC


[This is from the Chronic Pain Conference]

> AS> > I am a quad/paraplegic with
> AS> > terrible muscle spasms quite unlike and much worse
> AS> > than any back spasms
> AS> > I have ever had. Presently the medical establishment has
> AS> > ONLY 3 drugs for treating them: Lioresal, Valium and Dantrium.
> AS>
> AS> I don't think this is correct.  There are other drugs that
> AS> are used for treating muscle spasms

> Unfortunately, this is 100% correct. Ask any spinal cord injury doctor.
> I have been to numerous doctors who specialize in spinal cord injuries
> and the only repertoire they have dispensable to them to alleviate
> spasticity is those drugs I have mentioned.

I stand by my prior comment; stating that these 3 drugs are the
only ones available is just not correct.  Another drug which
quickly comes to mind and is used for treating muscle spastisity
associated with spinal cord injury is Baclofen. This may not be an
appropriate therapy for your particular problem, and may have never
been suggested to you for that reason.  Physicians don't discuss
every drug that is available with a patient, only the ones which
appear to be appropriate for that particular patient; this decision
takes into account not only the particular medical problem for
which treatment is sought, but also other medical problems the
patient may have, and effects and side effects of the drug under
consideration.

--
Uucp: ..!{decvax,oliveb}!bunker!hcap!hnews!376!72.160!Arthur.Saus
Internet: Arthur.Saus@p160.f72.n376.z1.fidonet.org




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Subject: Re: Shots for RSD
From: Arthur.Saus@p160.f72.n376.z1.fidonet.org (Arthur Saus)
Organization: FidoNet node 1:376/72.160 - Windows of the Worl, Columbia SC


[This is from the Chronic Pain Conference]

> AS> Pain management by use of nerve blocks and other modes of
> AS> therapy is a rather new field of study.

> How new is this? Nerve blocks have been around for several
> years now I thought.

Yes, nerve blocks have been around for several years.  Pain
management as a field of study unto itself is what I was referring
to as a fairly new approach.

> With a larger dose of the same narcotic, the pain went away.
> He then injected a narcotic antagonist (Naloxone, I
> believe) into my IV. Shortly thereafter, I told him the pain was back.
> So he said lets make sure and gave me a spinal.
> Whereas I could not feel him poking my
> feet with a pin and drawing blood and my spasticity was completely
> wiped out, the pain in the foot was still there.
> For that reason he
> said the pain was coming from a higher level most likely the spinal
> cord itself at the injury sight.

> My question is this: Why  did I get relief from a narcotic
> given epidurally but not from a spinal?

As I read your description of the procedure as noted above, I'm not
at all sure you got a narcotic administered by a "spinal".
Assuming your description is completely accurate (which it appears
to be), this may have been a spinal anesthetic administered, not a
"spinal" administration of a narcotic.  You will have to ask the
anesthesiologist who performed this procedure for you to be sure.

--
Uucp: ..!{decvax,oliveb}!bunker!hcap!hnews!376!72.160!Arthur.Saus
Internet: Arthur.Saus@p160.f72.n376.z1.fidonet.org




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Subject: Re: Drug companies
From: Arthur.Saus@p160.f72.n376.z1.fidonet.org (Arthur Saus)
Organization: FidoNet node 1:376/72.160 - Windows of the Worl, Columbia SC


[This is from the Chronic Pain Conference]

> I sure wish somebody would find a way where we patients
> don't have to get charged the high prices for their
> experiments for the rest of our lives, though.  Sheez,
> Flexaril yesterday for 90 tablets cost me almost $50.00!
> Since it's working with the spasms and cramps, though, I
> gotta take it.

Linda, as I said before (although in general terms referring to all
drugs) you can expect the price of Flexaril to decrease soon after
the patent expires.  Although I don't know the exact date, it
shouldn't be more that another few years.  Motrin is a good example
of this... when it first became available on the market, it was an
expensive drug.  Now that the patent has expired and there are many
companies making generic equivalents, the cost to the pharmacy is
only a few pennies per tablet.

So, don't worry that prices for this drug will be high for the rest
of our lives.  What you are complaining about however is the costs
associated with government regulations which interfere with the
free enterprise system that supposedly is the foundation of our
markets in this country.

Actually for your Flexaril though, you are only talking about a
cost of 55 cents per tablet even now.  Considering the tremendous
expenditure it takes to develop this drug, manufacture it, promote
it, and get it to market, this doesn't seem like a high price, but
I agree with you that it would certainly be much nicer for all of
us if the price could somehow be even much lower.

--
Uucp: ..!{decvax,oliveb}!bunker!hcap!hnews!376!72.160!Arthur.Saus
Internet: Arthur.Saus@p160.f72.n376.z1.fidonet.org




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Subject: Adhesions
From: Sandra.Greenwood@f325.n110.z1.fidonet.org (Sandra Greenwood)
Organization: FidoNet node 1:110/325 - MED-Tech BBS, Union OH


[This is from the Chronic Pain Conference]

Joel,
    This is the first message that I have received from you.  It sounds like
 you are in the situation that I am trying to avoid.  The last time I
 complained, they offered to take out my intestines and fit me with a bag.  To
me this sounded like jumping from the frying pan into the fire.
     I know what you mean about the quick changes of this condition.  One day
I will be out working in the yard, the next day I'll be in bed curled in a
 ball.  People just don't understand this.  I don't know if you go through
 this, but if I have a couple of almost good days, I get to where I am afraid
 to eat or move, since I don't know for sure what aggrivates my condition.  On
the other hand, if I have several bad days in a row, I want to stay in bed and
 never get up.  This BBS'ing has really helped.  It gives me a reason to get
 up, even if it's just to check the E-mail.
     I made a few calls the other day to see if there was a way to get a local
 support group going and the people I talked to didn't seem interested.  They
 said it wasn't a big enough problem.  Easy for them to say.  If any one out
 there knows the proper contacts to make, please let me know.
    Let's try to keep this thread active.  You are the first person that I
 have communicated with that actually has the same problem.  Others can't
 understand what we go through.  A doctor can tell you, if it hurts, don't do
 that, but when it involves something as basic as eating and using the
 bathroom, it makes each day an ordeal.
    I hope your procedure goes well, and that it does not result in another
 operation.  I had a kink or what ever yesterday, so I am very sore and cannot
sit at this computer any longer.  Will talk to you later and will remember you
 in my prayers.
Sandie

--
Uucp: ..!{decvax,oliveb}!bunker!hcap!hnews!110!325!Sandra.Greenwood
Internet: Sandra.Greenwood@f325.n110.z1.fidonet.org




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Subject: Pain
From: Linda.Cummings@f34.n375.z1.fidonet.org (Linda Cummings)
Organization: FidoNet node 1:375/34 - Batteries Included , Montgomery AL


[This is from the Chronic Pain Conference]

 > We can tell you the pathways these
 > stimuli travel through the peripheral nervous system, into the
 > spinal cord, then into the brain, and the paths within the brain
 > where these messages are distributed, but we can't tell you how it
 > becomes painful for you.  The exact same stimulus applied to
 > someone else may not be appreciated as painful due to the
 > subjective nature of pain.

Amen!  At least now (in Birmingham, anyway) the people who work in
the Pain Clinic are taking a different attitude about pain now.
They are now say, "We know you are in pain and it's not in your
head."  But, they also further state that it *is* in your mind and
then tell you why. They also explain that pain is different for
everyone and there is no way of telling the level of pain from one
person to the next.  Someone with a very high tolerance for pain
(like me) can stand the pain better than someone with a low
tolerance (maybe like you).

It's very interesting to go to these "groups" and get peoples' reactions.  I'm
 rather enjoying it, even if it means having an increase in pain while I'm
 sitting there on my pillow! [grin]

Linda

--
Uucp: ..!{decvax,oliveb}!bunker!hcap!hnews!375!34!Linda.Cummings
Internet: Linda.Cummings@f34.n375.z1.fidonet.org




------



Subject: Birmingham Pain Clinic Visit #4
From: Linda.Cummings@f34.n375.z1.fidonet.org (Linda Cummings)
Organization: FidoNet node 1:375/34 - Batteries Included , Montgomery AL


[This is from the Chronic Pain Conference]

 > Me too Linda ..Several years back I to became addicted to Vicodan
 > and didn't even know it .... It was my sister that pointed it out
 > to me ..Thank heavens we got it under control and are more aware
 > of what is going on now!

At the last group meeting, we were informed that becoming addicted
to pain medication prescribed by a doctor is one of the easiest
additions. After all, we're just doing what the doctor ordered,
aren't we?

I watch myself now, too.  But, I do use common sense and do not
take more than prescribed.  Even doing that, I may become addicted
to Flexaril.  Had a bout with left leg spasms and cramps yesterday
because the day before I didn't take the amount prescribed.
Whew...I didn't think my body would become dependent that fast!

Linda

--
Uucp: ..!{decvax,oliveb}!bunker!hcap!hnews!375!34!Linda.Cummings
Internet: Linda.Cummings@f34.n375.z1.fidonet.org




------



Subject: Re: Birmingham Pain Clinic Visit #4
From: Arthur.Saus@p160.f72.n376.z1.fidonet.org (Arthur Saus)
Organization: FidoNet node 1:376/72.160 - Windows of the Worl, Columbia SC


[This is from the Chronic Pain Conference]

> A.  The above re chronic pain people and addiction is
> bullcaca.  Studies prove people will use only enough
> medication to control their pain, and won't go for a high.
> B.  Methadone is addictive.  *adh*

No it's not "bullcaca"!!!!  The problem of addiction to narcotics
in people with chronic pain is very real.  The studies you are
referencing deal with ACUTE PAIN, not chronic pain; this is the
basis for Patient Controlled Analgesia (PCA machines).  You are
correct that Methadone can be addicting.

--
Uucp: ..!{decvax,oliveb}!bunker!hcap!hnews!376!72.160!Arthur.Saus
Internet: Arthur.Saus@p160.f72.n376.z1.fidonet.org




------



Subject: Chronic pain
From: Joel.Lefkowitz@f54.n135.z1.fidonet.org (Joel Lefkowitz)
Organization: FidoNet node 1:135/54 - Ramblin' Roots, Miami FL


[This is from the Chronic Pain Conference]

Glenn, I have found that the tens unit helps to mask the pain. I
have found that it works differently depending on where my pain is.
Before I went to an accupuncturist, I had pain in all my joints and
my back. I also had severe pain in my abdomen from adhesions. The
tens unit helped to alleviate the pain in my back but not in my
abdomen. When I later tried accupuncture, the pain in my back and
all my joints have totally disappeared but the pain in my abdomen
remains.

--
Uucp: ..!{decvax,oliveb}!bunker!hcap!hnews!135!54!Joel.Lefkowitz
Internet: Joel.Lefkowitz@f54.n135.z1.fidonet.org




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             End of Issue # 2562 of the Handicap Digest

                                ******
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