HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: viznyuk@ohstpy.mps.ohio-state.edu
Newsgroups: soc.culture.romanian
Subject: Re: The revival of the "Moldavian" language and "democratic" Estonia
Date: 31 Aug 92 21:54:30 EDT

 In article <1992Aug31.155207.1265@enea.se>, sommar@enea.se (Erland Sommarskog) writes:
> In today's RFE/RL report we find:
> )"DNIESTER REPUBLIC" TO REIMPOSE RUSSIAN SCRIPT ON "MOLDOVAN
> )LANGUAGE." A draft "law on languages," currently before the
> )"Dniester Republic Supreme Soviet," would reimpose the Russian
> )alphabet for the "Moldovan language" (i.e.  Romanian) in schools
> )there, Radio Rossii reported on 24 August.  Moldovan schools in
> )that area switched to the Latin script following its
> )reinstatement in Moldova in 1989, and have since resisted the
> )"Dniester" authorities' orders to return the "Moldovan language"
> )to the Russian alphabet.  The proposed measure would give the
> )"Dniester" Russian authorities a pseudo-legal basis for enforcing
> )compliance.  (Vladimir Socor, RFE/RL Inc.)
> 
> Well, those Transdniestr guys never looked like any nice guys to me,
> rather old-timers who are fighting to preserve their power. OK,
> Vinzyuk we're know you're sensitive about language laws, can we
> hear you scream "fascism" once more? Or is it OK when Russians are
> playing such games?                  

  Well, dear Erland, why don't you explain me at first why you drag me
to soc.culture.romanian ? Especially when hardly anybody at that list
knows the context of our previous  articles ?  What about good manners ?
  Now back to your questions: as you might be aware, "TransDniester"
republic is not Russia. Russians are not even in majority there. So I was
slightly embarrased when you wrote "or is it OK when Russians are
playing such games?". So whom, by your opinion, should I call "fascist"
there ?
  Ditto: even though I have never considered "TransDniester" republic as
an example of democracy, still there is no comparison in these terms
between it and "democratic" Estonia. As you noted yourself, the
question in "TransDniester" republic is HOW to teach Moldavian
language, while in "democratic" Estonia the question is "to teach
or not to teach Russian at all". Besides, whom do you call
"old-timers who are fighting to preserve their power" ?  I supposed
you meant President of Moldova x-communist Mircea Snegur ? Or
his former Primer-Minister x-communist and x-KGB officer Mircea
Drug, who is now balloting for Romanian Presidency ? ..even though,
as noted Russian TV, he has no chances to win...

  As I see, you, Mr. Sommarskog, are skipping those
parts of my articles, which you feel uneasy to reply to, ah ?
In particular, I'm still waiting for you answer on my
question, why do you consider the Armenians in Nagorno-Karabakh
as having rights to seceede from Azerbajzhan, because
as you asserted, they voted for it, while apparently
you consider the people in e.g. TransDniester republic
or in Narva region of Estonia as NOT having such right ?
What about honesty ?
S.V.
 
> Erland Sommarskog - ENEA Data, Stockholm - sommar@enea.se
> F|rst till kvarn f}r f|rst vankiva
Organization: Masters student, Information Networking Institute, Carnegie Mellon, Pittsburgh, PA
Newsgroups: soc.culture.romanian
Date: Thu, 27 Aug 1992 13:23:48 -0400 
From: Radu Eugen Edelstein <re0x+@andrew.cmu.edu>
Subject: Re: general

Virgil writes:
Hi !
I  am no soccer fan but it happened I stumbled over the results of the
first round in the Romanian National Division (former Divizia A), of
Sunday, 23 August 1992 ( what a date !):


I say:
Yes, what a date !  Liberation date ! It was on August 23 that I left
Communist Romania and that same day (because of flying alongside the
sun) is the day I arrived to the US, a few years ago.  Speaking about
significance...

Rad
From: sispas@lsil.com (Steve Ispas)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.romanian
Subject: For Karel Stokkermans
Date: 3 Sep 92 20:58:23 GMT
Reply-To: sispas@lsil.com
Organization: LSI Logic Corporation

Karel,

What is your internet (e-mail) address?  I tried to send you mail at lsil!risc.uni-linz.ac.at!kstokker but it was returned :

   ----- Transcript of session follows -----
554 kstokker@risc.uni-linz.ac.at... Unknown domain at
554 lsil!mhost!qast15!sispas... Possible alias loop
554 No valid recipients

Anyways... I wanted to thank you for sending me the football results. Thanx!
---


******************************************************************************
* Steve Ispas 				                           +-----+   * 	
* LSI Logic Corporation          Phone    : (408) 433-8799        LSI LOGIC
* 1501 McCarthy Blvd.            FAX      : (408) 433-6802         |     |   *
* M/S E-192                      email    : sispas@qafs2           +-----+   *
* Milpitas, Ca.  95035           internet : sispas@lsil.com                  *
******************************************************************************
From: bucur@pollux.usc.edu (alexander bucur)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.romanian
Subject: illiescu's letter
Date: 4 Sep 1992 10:56:33 -0700
Organization: University of Southern California, Los Angeles, CA
NNTP-Posting-Host: pollux.usc.edu

I was not in Romania in 1990, I do not have much detailed information
about the events.  Is there any truth in what Illiescu says?  I do not
know why, but I feel like I am reading "Scinteia" back in the 80s with
the voice of the "father, mother, grandfather, and grandmother" of the
Romanian nation -- C....  (don't want to write his name).

Is the situation so bad in Romania that we have to o back to the 
communist techniques?  Or is just the stupidness of Illiescu that
makes me feel this way?

We must remember what Hitler and nazis did when they took the power
back in 1933.  Similar accusations were made against others in order
to present themselves as saviors.  Blame the CIA?  Come on!

I think it's time to get some of this garbage out of power before the
country goes down by the way side.

Please post some information about this 1990 clashes since I am curious
what does actually happened.
From: hendrix@haber.Eng.Sun.COM (George Haber)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.romanian
Subject: Gipsies / Jews and other "natiuni conlocuitoare"
Date: 4 Sep 1992 18:38:28 GMT
Organization: Sun Microsystems, Inc.
Distribution: world
Reply-To: hendrix@haber.Eng.Sun.COM
NNTP-Posting-Host: haber

Hey Guys
--------

 There are some REAL BIGOTS HERE WHO talk about Gypsies in a VERY disturbing way.
Let me point out some FACTS;
 - There are BAD people in every National subgroup.
 - There are GOD people in every National grub.
 - because some of you had bad experience with some guys it
is INSIDIOUS to characterize the whole group as being ... bad.

  In my opinion Gipsy are a VERY important part of the Roumanian Society
some of them may not be pleasant to you,so nobody asks you to associate with them.

 I also think that they are in the BEST socio-economic position to get VERY RICH
due to the fall of comunism and that this is the real problem BIGOTS dislike the.

 Without them there would be no wood to burn in winter and a loath of other
goods wold not reach the market.


 //-- include ( From bucur@pollux.usc.edu (alexander bucur) )
>> There one thing that some people might not know about Gypsies. In Rumania they
>> had a special status since they were allowed (at least when I was back there)
>> to travel to neighboring countries (Yugoslavia, Hungary, Bulgary, USSR) with
>> the excuse that they had family across border.  This had generated huge
>> networks of underground black-market which they used to their advantage.  Also,
>> they use to get around the law by using excuses like "I am not Romanian" when
>> it was in their advantage to do so.
//-- end include

 My Dear Sasha THIS is what CAPITALISM IS ALL ABOUT "make money" if you did not have
family abroad ??? and the had that is their advantage and there is nothing wrong with
them being "BISNITARI" what is WRONG with rounamia is that the term "BISNITAR" is a negative term
"BISNITAR" ==> CAPITALIST and that is Bater than COMULIST <== "CUR LINGAU"

George Haber
+-----------------------+------------------------+---------------------------+
| George Haber          |   _____  _   _   _   _ |   voice: (415) 336-5682   |
| Sun Microsystems, Inc.|  /____  /   /   /\  /  |internet: hendrix@sun.COM  |
| Mountain View, CA     | _____/ /___/  _/  \/   |    uucp: sun!hendrix      |   
+-----------------------+------------------------+---------------------------+
         Even a watch that's stopped is right twice a day, afterall.
From: TONY@SLACVM.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU (Tony Roder)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.romanian
Subject: Re: How much news?
Date: 3 Sep 92 17:05:50 GMT
Organization: Stanford Linear Accelerator Center

Here's one vote for the abstracted version.

-----------------------------------
Tony Roder, speaking his mind .....
Newsgroups: soc.culture.romanian
From: broder@src.dec.com (Andrei Broder)
Subject: Subscribing to the RFE reports
Reply-To: broder@src.dec.com
Organization: DEC Systems Research Center
Date: Tue, 1 Sep 92 21:02:44 GMT

The Radio Free Europe/Radio Liberty daily reports are available via
e-mail.  To get on the list send a message to

listserv@ubvm.cc.buffalo.edu

containg just one line (subject line is ignored)

SUBSCRIBE RFERL-L Jane Doe

where of course Jane Doe should be replaced by your actual name.  You
will get a confirmation msg, and will start getting the reports next
day.


To unsubscribe send a message to listserv with the line

SIGNOFF RFERL-L 

For more details send listserv a message with the line

HELP

Use all that at your own risk ....

By the way, reposting the RFE reports here, except by express
permission, is probably not OK since they are copyrighted.

- Andrei
From: bucur@pollux.usc.edu (alexander bucur)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.romanian
Subject: Re: gypsies
Date: 4 Sep 1992 10:07:13 -0700
Organization: University of Southern California, Los Angeles, CA
NNTP-Posting-Host: pollux.usc.edu

In article <1992Sep4.152223.1@rulfsw.leidenuniv.nl> zoelen@rulfsw.leidenuniv.nl writes:

>and: are they a special race as well.. i also saw some with blond hair,
>or are they a different group??

Gypsies are nomad by nature and education.  So, they have a problem settling
down.  I'll tell you this story from when I was in Romania.

The government demolished neighborhoods with poor urban status (like old
houses, or houses that were in bad shape) and gave people new housing in
flats (apartment buildings).  Across from my building, they moved in a family
of Gypsies.  On one night, I saw a fire made in the middle of their living 
room.  The room did not have a fireplace, or any kind of setup for fire.
They just put wood on the cement (i believe) and light it up.  I am not
sure if this gives a prospective, but I can assure you that their values
do not match any of the societies (cultures) that I had the chance to see,
or live in.

Sasha Bucur

Organization: Biological Sciences, Carnegie Mellon, Pittsburgh, PA
Newsgroups: soc.culture.romanian
Date: Wed, 26 Aug 1992 20:39:59 -0400 
From: Virgil Simplaceanu <vs2a+@andrew.cmu.edu>
Subject: Re: general

Correction of previous message, soccer results are from 16 August !

Hi ! 
I  am no soccer fan but it happened I stumbled over the results of the
first round in the Romanian National Division (former Divizia A), of
Sunday, 16 August 1992 

Otelul Galati - Steaua 1-1 (1-0)
"U" Cluj      - F.C.Brasov 1-0 (1-0)
C.S.M. Resita - F.C. Inter Sibiu 3-2 (3-0)
Electroputere Craiova - Dacia Unirea Braila 1-0 (1-0)
Sportul Studentesc - Universitatea Craiova 0-0
F.C. Ploiesti - Rapid Bucuresti 1-1 (1-1)
F.C. Bacau    -Gloria Bistrita 1-4 (0-3)
Progresul Bucuresti - F.C. Farul Constanta 2-2 (1-1)
Dinamo Bucuresti - "Poli" Timisoara 4-0 (2-0)

 Dinamo had a "blitz" visit to Spain 11 - 14 August amd played at Sevilla
winning 1-0 against Betis Sevilla on August 12.  Next day they lost 0-1
to Real Oviedo.

Romania plays Mexico in Bucharest on AUg 26.


And now the results of the Romanian athletes in the Summer Olympic Games 1992:
Placed 14th, with 4 gold, 6 silver and 8 bronze medals, as follows:

Gold:
1. Iulica Ruican, Viorel Talapan, Dimitrie Popescu, Nicolae Taga si
Dumitru Raducanu - canotaj, 4+1 rame
2. Elisabeta Lipa - canotaj, simplu
3. Lavinia Milosevici - gimnastica, sarituri
4. Lavinia Milosevici - gimnastica, sol

Silver:
1. Elisabeta Lipa, Veronica Cochela - canotaj, 2 visle
2, Anisoara Dobre, Veronica Cochela, Doina Ignat, Constanta Pipota -
canotaj, 4 visle
3. Maria Paduraru, Adrian Bazon, Viorica Neculai, Ioana Olteanu,
Victorita Lepadatu, Iulia Bobeica, Doina Snep, Doina Robu, Elena
Georgescu - canotaj, 8+1 rame
4. Vasile Mastacan, Valentin Robu, Dorel Nastase, Viorel Talapan, Iulica
Ruican, Claudiu Marin, Danut Dobre, Iulian Vizitiu, Elena Mirel -
canotaj, 8+1 rame
5. Lavinia Milosevici, Cristina Bontas, Maria Neculita, Gina Gogean,
Mirela Pasca, Vanda Hadarean - gimnastica, echipe
6. Alina Astafei - atletism, inaltime

Bronze:
1. Traian Ciharean - halterem cat. 52 kg
2. Sorin Babii - tir, pistol aer comprimat
3. Lavinia Milosevici - gimnastica, individual compus
4. Nicolae Taga, Dimitrie Popescu, Dumitru Raducanu - canotaj, 2+1 rame
5. Cristina Bontas - gimnastica, sol
6. Ioan Grigoras - lupte greco-romane, cat. 130 kg
7. Claudia Grigorescu, Elisabeta Tufan, Reka Lazar-Szabo, Laura Badea,
Roxana Dumitrescu - scrima, floreta
8. Leonard Doroftei - box, cat. 63.5 kg


Daniela Costian (romanca de origine) a obtinut pentru Australia medalia
de bronz la aruncarea discului (66.24m) !

Sanatate si numai bine.
Cheers!



Newsgroups: soc.culture.romanian
From: zoelen@rulfsw.leidenuniv.nl
Subject: gypsies
Organization: Leiden University Faculty of Social Sciences
Date: 4 Sep 92 15:22:22 +0100

hi all..
i was in romania last month and i wondered what the position
of the gypsies over there is... my experiences with them were very 
mixed, from very friendly to hostile (and efforts to take my money)..
On tv i saw that they were the first victims of the riots in rostock
in germany as well... so what are they: are they a real part of the
romanian society ... or is it thru what some ppl told me..that they
are a world apart and just live from what they can get, but are no part of
the economy? (i think they mean to say: they just steal ... )
so ... how do they get an income?  are they just a burden for the 
country? i didn't understand relations between romanians and
gypsies very well i think.
and: are they a special race as well.. i also saw some with blond hair,
or are they a different group??
and one other question: why is there just information on football
in this newsgroup???? there is a lot to be said about romania 

regards, ad van zoelen
From: mihai@sep.Stanford.EDU (Alexander Mihai Popovici)
Subject: Iliescu  
Organization: Stanford Exploration Project
Date: Wed, 2 Sep 1992 20:44:23 GMT

I repost an article from clari:

	BUCHAREST, Romania (UPI) -- President Ion Iliescu warned Wednesday of
a possible military coup as his country battles with some of its worst
economic and social problems of the post-communist era.
	``A military coup is possible.. anything could happen in Romania...
although I don't know that the army is prepared,'' said Iliescu in an
interview with United Press International.
	Iliescu's comments came as inflation nudged 350 percent a year and
unemployment moved toward 500,000 as the country struggles to convert to
a free-market economy. 
	He criticized neighboring Hungary for stirring ethnic tension in
Transylvania, which has been part of Romania since 1918, but where the
population is 25 percent Hungarian.
	Iliescu said nationalist forces in both Hungary and Romania were
profiting from the instability in the region. ``The politicians are to
blame,'' he said. ``The ordinary people want to live together in peace.''
	Iliescu said closer integration with neighbouring Moldova, which has
a two-thirds Romanian population, was desirable, but did not give a date
for re-unification.
	Iliescu is standing for re-election as president at the end of
September when Romanians go to the polls in both general and
presidential elections.
From: bucur@pollux.usc.edu (alexander bucur)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.romanian
Subject: Re: Fwd: Romanians flood Poland seeking new life in Germany
Date: 1 Sep 1992 16:04:00 -0700
Organization: University of Southern California, Los Angeles, CA
NNTP-Posting-Host: pollux.usc.edu

In article <gecvU7o00k008veEsg@transarc.com> Denis_Dancanet@transarc.com writes:

>        They are Romanians, arriving by the thousands since Germany lifted
>visa requirements for Poland and most of the rest of Eastern Europe last
>year.

>        A township of tents and makeshift shelters for several hundred
>refugees has been formed by Romanian gypsies near the Warsaw Eastern
>railway station. Most of them know just enough Polish words to beg.

There are two different statement here: Romanians and Romanian gypsies.  Are
they only gypsies, or no one can tell?  I am just wondering.

It seems like a very hard situation, and the Romanian government inertia
does not help much when it comes to fixing it.

I was in Mexico this summer, and there you can see people sitting at the edge
of the fence without any shame waiting for the sun to go down.  There are
businesses that are opened only to serve soda and food to those waiting to run
across the border.  I think that it is a problem that exists around all
7G countries.

Sasha Bucur
From: bucur@pollux.usc.edu (alexander bucur)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.romanian
Subject: Re: Fwd: Romanians flood Poland seeking new life in Germany
Date: 4 Sep 1992 09:45:04 -0700
Organization: University of Southern California, Los Angeles, CA
NNTP-Posting-Host: pollux.usc.edu

In article <1992Sep3.180750.1951@morrow.stanford.edu> mihai@sep.Stanford.EDU (Alexander Mihai Popovici) writes:

>On short, the thing I resented most was the fact that
>the "Romanian Gypsy" community was identified with the 
>general "Romanian" community.  Furthermore
>the Gypsies didn't consider
>themselves Romanians first and Gypsies later.
>
>So while generalizing in one direction (Gypsies are not Romanians)
>could lead to racist conclusions, generalizing in the other direction 
>(all Romanians are Gypsy) is also false.
>I think all the cases should be dealt
>with on an individual basis.

The problem here is that news has to be generalized in order to be given to 
the general audience.  This is when it gets people like us upset.  I am proud 
to be Romanian (actually Russian and Romanian, just like you Mihai), and
I am pissed when Gypsies values are equated with mine since they are seen as
Romanians.  Somebody might say that I am very nationalistic.  I am not.  I just
don't like having be associated with something I do not believe in.  In 
Romanian there is a saying: "Tell me who you associate with and I'll tell you
who you are." (rough translation)  So, I do not want to be associated with such
values.

There one thing that some people might not know about Gypsies. In Romania they
had a special status since they were allowed (at least when I was back there)
to travel to neighboring countries (Yugoslavia, Hungary, Bulgary, USSR) with
the excuse that they had family across border.  This had generated huge
networks of underground black-market which they used to their advantage.  Also,
they use to get around the law by using excuses like "I am not Romanian" when
it was in their advantage to do so.

So, for those that have not experience such "two-faced" characters, you might
understand why some of us (maybe only me) are so upset with the generalizations
made by the media reporters in their misjudgement of the situations.

Sasha Bucur



Organization: Biological Sciences, Carnegie Mellon, Pittsburgh, PA
Newsgroups: soc.culture.romanian
Date: Wed, 26 Aug 1992 20:35:45 -0400 
From: Virgil Simplaceanu <vs2a+@andrew.cmu.edu>
Subject: Re: general

Hi ! 
I  am no soccer fan but it happened I stumbled over the results of the
first round in the Romanian National Division (former Divizia A), of
Sunday, 23 August 1992 ( what a date !):

Otelul Galati - Steaua 1-1 (1-0)
"U" Cluj      - F.C.Brasov 1-0 (1-0)
C.S.M. Resita - F.C. Inter Sibiu 3-2 (3-0)
Electroputere Craiova - Dacia Unirea Braila 1-0 (1-0)
Sportul Studentesc - Universitatea Craiova 0-0
F.C. Ploiesti - Rapid Bucuresti 1-1 (1-1)
F.C. Bacau    -Gloria Bistrita 1-4 (0-3)
Progresul Bucuresti - F.C. Farul Constanta 2-2 (1-1)
Dinamo Bucuresti - "Poli" Timisoara 4-0 (2-0)

 Dinamo had a "blitz" visit to Spain 11 - 14 August amd played at Sevilla
winning 1-0 against Betis Sevilla on August 12.  Next day they lost 0-1
to Real Oviedo.

Romania plays Mexico in Bucharest on AUg 26.


And now the results of the Romanian athletes in the Summer Olympic Games 1992:
Placed 14th, with 4 gold, 6 silver and 8 bronze medals, as follows:

Gold:
1. Iulica Ruican, Viorel Talapan, Dimitrie Popescu, Nicolae Taga si
Dumitru Raducanu - canotaj, 4+1 rame
2. Elisabeta Lipa - canotaj, simplu
3. Lavinia Milosevici - gimnastica, sarituri
4. Lavinia Milosevici - gimnastica, sol

Silver:
1. Elisabeta Lipa, Veronica Cochela - canotaj, 2 visle
2, Anisoara Dobre, Veronica Cochela, Doina Ignat, Constanta Pipota -
canotaj, 4 visle
3. Maria Paduraru, Adrian Bazon, Viorica Neculai, Ioana Olteanu,
Victorita Lepadatu, Iulia Bobeica, Doina Snep, Doina Robu, Elena
Georgescu - canotaj, 8+1 rame
4. Vasile Mastacan, Valentin Robu, Dorel Nastase, Viorel Talapan, Iulica
Ruican, Claudiu Marin, Danut Dobre, Iulian Vizitiu, Elena Mirel -
canotaj, 8+1 rame
5. Lavinia Milosevici, Cristina Bontas, Maria Neculita, Gina Gogean,
Mirela Pasca, Vanda Hadarean - gimnastica, echipe
6. Alina Astafei - atletism, inaltime

Bronze:
1. Traian Ciharean - halterem cat. 52 kg
2. Sorin Babii - tir, pistol aer comprimat
3. Lavinia Milosevici - gimnastica, individual compus
4. Nicolae Taga, Dimitrie Popescu, Dumitru Raducanu - canotaj, 2+1 rame
5. Cristina Bontas - gimnastica, sol
6. Ioan Grigoras - lupte greco-romane, cat. 130 kg
7. Claudia Grigorescu, Elisabeta Tufan, Reka Lazar-Szabo, Laura Badea,
Roxana Dumitrescu - scrima, floreta
8. Leonard Doroftei - box, cat. 63.5 kg


Daniela Costian (romanca de origine) a obtinut pentru Australia medalia
de bronz la aruncarea discului (66.24m) !

Sanatate si numai bine.
Cheers!


Newsgroups: soc.culture.romanian
From: mihai@nada.kth.se (Mihai Dorobantu)
Subject: Re: How much news?
Organization: Royal Institute of Technology, Stockholm, Sweden
Date: Thu, 3 Sep 1992 07:44:16 GMT

In article <1992Sep3.004523.20882@umr.edu>, msirbu@next5.cs.umr.edu (Mihai Sirbu) writes:
|> How much news do you think it is reasonable to be posted on
|> this newsgroup?
|> 
....
|> My current practice is to post the entire bulletin under its
|> current name - including the "long" warning. Also, I'm posting
|> a selection of all the news covering Romania and 
|> (Republic of) Moldova under the name
|> "Moldova/Romania News, RFE/RL mm/dd/yy".
|> 
|> I want your opinion about this problem. Should I 
|>    1) continue posting this way, 
|>    2) continue only with the abstract or 
|>    3) only with the full report?
|> Or even simply 
|>    4) stop posting them?
|> 
......
|> 
.....

I think it's best to send only the abstract. Those intrested in the
whole Eastern European reports can subscribe themselvs to RFE/RL. I
have done so, there's no problem. This way  you can save some of your 
time while keeping everybody updated.

I also to thank you for the great job you've been doing. I think
we all owe you a lot.

Best regards,

Mihai Dorobantu