HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
Reply-To: ultra!corin!keving@ames.arc.nasa.gov (Kevin W. Gurney)
Organization: Ultra Network Technologies, Inc.
Apparently-To: uunet!rec-music-gaffa
Newsgroups: rec.music.gaffa

In article <1992Aug13.174103.10111@oucsace.cs.ohiou.edu>, aruss@oucsace.cs.ohiou.edu (Andrew Russ) writes:
|> 
|> Review:  Tori Amos at the Newport, Columbus  OH  92.8.7 with E
|> 
|> 

[ skipping a bit ]

|> 
|> came back on and asked the crowd for a big cheer.  The lights went down 
|> and Tori came on.  
|>     She came out and sat down at the piano.  A nice grand piano.  
|> Wardrobe notes:  Yep, Tori probably was wearing a one-piece with 
|> essentially no back.  Yellow and green colored.  She also had on a pair 
|> of jeans with a belt made out of a long piece of cord, the ends hanging 
|> down below her knees.  She looked great.  Though not a good judge of 
|> height, i'd say Tori is rather tall.  

Actually, she's fairly short.  I met her after her San Francisco concert
and remember her being about 3 or 4 inches shorter than me (I'm 5'8").

But you're right; on stage she has a very commanding, impressive presence.
I'm looking forward to seeing her again in September.

x-gateway: rodan.UU.NET from love-hounds to rec.music.gaffa; Sat, 22 Aug 1992 16:05:00 EDT
Date: Sat, 22 Aug 1992 16:02:40 -0400
Resent-Message-Id: <9208222002.AA10360@ftp.UU.NET>
X-From: EACOX@ucs.indiana.edu Sat Aug 22 15:43:00 1992
Message-ID: <9208221943.AA27927@relay1.UU.NET>
Organization: University of Auckland, New Zealand.
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT
Apparently-To: rec-music-gaffa@uunet.uu.net
Newsgroups: rec.music.gaffa

"Tim.Harris" <tharris@computing-department.poly-south-west.ac.uk> writes:

>Isn't Maire Brennan the vocalist from Clannad?

Yep Enya's sister. What I want to know who are the other Brennan's on the
Maire album?(Olive, Dee and someone else?). I assume their they're other
 members of the clan.
 
-- 
____________________________________________________________________________
Mark Craddock                      |  'University kills intellect by
Department of Engineering Science  |     degrees'   Andrew Davies
University of Auckland             |

Date: Sun, 16 Aug 1992 04:31:10 -0400
Via: uk.ac.dundee.mcs; Sat, 15 Aug 1992 00:42:55 +0100
From: gthorbur@mcs.dundee.ac.UK (Gareth Thorburn)
Errors-To: Love-Hounds-request@uunet.uu.net
Message-ID: <20900.9208142342@spirit.mcs.dund.ac.uk>
Newsgroups: rec.music.gaffa
Subject: (no subject given!)

Please subscribe me to this mailing list....
Thanku very much....
Tom Romaszkiewicz
Date: Tue, 18 Aug 1992 03:44:41 -0400
Subject: *** Famous Kate Bush Fans ****
From: rhill@netrun.cts.com (ronald hill)
Errors-To: Love-Hounds-request@uunet.uu.net
Comments: Console Cowboy
Message-ID: <0ZyoPB2w165w@netrun.cts.com>
Subject: unsubscribe
Newsgroups: rec.music.gaffa

unsubscribe jezsik@phoenix.stfx.ca
Date: Fri, 14 Aug 1992 04:08:55 -0400
Via: uk.ac.plymouth.school-of-computing; Fri, 14 Aug 1992 09:08:19 +0100
From: "Tim.Harris" <tharris@computing-department.poly-south-west.ac.uk>
Errors-To: Love-Hounds-request@uunet.uu.net
Message-ID: <200.9208140807@subnode.cd.psw.ac.uk>
Subject: Maire Brennan
Newsgroups: rec.music.gaffa

Isn't Maire Brennan the vocalist from Clannad?
x-gateway: rodan.UU.NET from love-hounds to rec.music.gaffa; Sun, 23 Aug 1992 04:13:16 EDT
Date: Sun, 23 Aug 1992 04:12:37 -0400
Subject: Answers to questions.  FTPing.  Is the Kate Bush symbol in PET CEMETARY II?
From: rhill@netrun.cts.com (ronald hill)
Errors-To: Love-Hounds-request@uunet.uu.net
Comments: Cloudbuster
Message-ID: <mB0XPB1w165w@netrun.cts.com>
Organization: NetRunner's Paradise BBS, San Diego CA
Newsgroups: rec.music.gaffa


        I'm a little drunk, but hopefully this makes sense. 

        This is gonna sound strange, but when I was watching an add for 
Pet Cemetary last night, the young actor (the same guy that was in 
TERMINATOR II) seemed to have what looked like a Kate Bush symbol on 
his bacK!  I only saw it one, but it sure looked like it to me.  I've 
been watching for the commercial again, but haven't seen it.  I guess 
it could be a "knights templar" symbol, but I though that didn't have a 
circle and this sure did.  Course, I may be all wrong about this! 

        Scott - Kite as a drug song?  well in my current state at least 
it makes sense, especially given the recent revelations (to me at 
least) about Kate's early drug use in one of the interviews I just 
transcribed.  As far as the "girlie" mag, I thought I had read that it 
was John Carter Bush, but I may be wrong or just thinking of his 
poetry! ;-) 

        Thanks to everyone for the Peter Gabriel song info. 

        
        Jeff asked about discussion of Strange Phenomena.  There was 
that little bit, but I didn't really count it as it really didn't into 
the song very much

        Diamond asks about a biography on Kate.  Look at the book  
Cloudbusting in the archives (see below). 

        Scott asked about the Cloudbusting GIFs.  My originals 
(coverted from the Amiga) are all fine, but I have no way of checking 
the ones in the archives.  Oh, to actually have FTP. 

        Someone asks about the archives.  I'll repost the monthly post 
at the beginning of the month, but here is some info that may help. 

All past messages of rec.music.gaffa/love-hounds-digest can be ftp'd 
from the love-hounds archive at ftp.UU.NET [137.39.1.9] in 
/usenet/rec.music.gaffa/archives.  Song lyrics, interviews, the Garden 
and Cloudbusting, etc are in /usenet/rec.music.gaffa/kb on the same 
host. 


If you've never used ftp, you use a program on your UNIX system called 
FTP. 
 You connect by typing: 
ftp ftp.UU.NET 
Log in as "anonymous", and use your username as your password. 
To change directories type: 
cd usenet/rec.music.gaffa 
"dir" will get you a directory, "get" and the filename will retrieve 
the file.  If you "cd" again into "archives" or "kb" you'll find the 
main goodies, with "pix" being another subdirectory within "kb", and 
"gif" and "gif.new" within "pix".  (When downloading gif's, set your 
transfer type to binary by typing 
binary 
at the "ftp>" prompt.) 



GENA DAVIS ALERT : She's on the cover of VANITY FAIR this week. 


---
rhill@netrun.cts.com (ronald hill)
NetRunner's Paradise BBS, San Diego CA
From: mmaxwell@ucsd.edu
Newsgroups: rec.music.gaffa
Subject: Re: the whole story
Date: 11 Aug 92 17:00:06 GMT
Organization: UC San Diego
Errors-To: Love-Hounds-request@uunet.uu.net
NNTP-Posting-Host: irpsws80.ucsd.edu

In article <1992Aug11.700.34866@channel1> eric.walker@channel1.com (Eric
Walker) writes:
(stuff deleted)
>     Of the videos in "The Whole Story," there were two genuine
>     masterpieces.  One was the frightening nightmare "Experiment IV."
>     The plot of this video (and the song?) is strongly reminiscent of
>     the horror movie "From Beyond" by Stuart Gordon, except that Kate
>     succeeds in a mere five minutes, without any messy blood and
>     splatter effects, in projecting a feeling of true terror and
>     helplessness, of a sort that "From Beyond" only hints at underneath
>     all the messy special effects.  This may be one of the most
>     terrifying music videos ever made - it's unforgettable.

Not that this is really about Kate or anything, but "From Beyond"
(the bad flick) was based on the story of the same name by HP
Lovecraft, and it succeeds in twenty or so pages in capturing more
atmosphere and fear than Gordon could in ten movies.

BTW, never thought of that connection before, kind of interesting now
that i look at it that way.  Actually what the plot of the song reminded
me of was parts of "Watchmen" by Alan Moore and Dave Gibbons.  I'll be happy
to continue this thread if people are so inclined, but seeing as this is not
at all related to Kate, we might want to take it to email.  Unless nobody
minds, that is.

Anon,

-------------------
Matt Maxwell
mmaxwell@ucsd.edu

"He took personality tests
 and stapled them to his lower lip" -- Stan Ridgway
Date: Fri, 14 Aug 1992 21:17:20 -0400
Subject: *** CATHY DEMOS PART III ****
From: rhill@netrun.cts.com (ronald hill)
Errors-To: Love-Hounds-request@uunet.uu.net
Message-ID: <5wuiPB4w165w@netrun.cts.com>
From: UK04160@ukpr.uky.edu
Errors-To: Love-Hounds-request@uunet.uu.net
Subject:      Never For Ever box, etc...
Newsgroups: rec.music.gaffa

>> (speculation on a possible DREAMING box)
Hmm...that would be nice. I don't know if I'd hold my breath for
it, though...the CDs that are "boxed" in this fashion seem
to be picked by the amount of new photos availiable from the period,
what the producers have rights to, etc. instead of by chronological
order. For instance, the same people responsible for LIONESS also
did the Beatles boxes..and they've done ones on HELP and REVOLVER
and skipped RUBBER SOUentirely. Speaking of these boxes, are
they actually sanctioned by EMI or are they the result of someone
else's brainstorm?? Could these be a result of the legal loopholes
 in England that allow all those interview sets to be distributed
legally??

Oh well...I guess these things do give us something to look forward
to in the absence of any new Kate material. I've yet to actually
pick up any oe things,

Paul (uk04160@ukpr.uky.edu)
Date: Mon, 17 Aug 1992 21:13:01 -0400
From: ursa!young@cmcl2.NYU.EDU (Eric Youngblood)
Errors-To: Love-Hounds-request@uunet.uu.net
Subject: Re: Sarah McLachlan and Sinhead O'Connor
Message-ID: <29652@ursa.UUCP>
Organization: wouldn't you like to know...
X-Newsreader: Tin 1.1 PL4
Newsgroups: rec.music.gaffa


yjc@po.cwru.edu (Jerome Chan) writes:
: Is it my imagination or does Sarah sound like Sinhead O'Connor?
:

I don't think it's your imagination...I always thought one line especially
sounded like Sinhead O'Connor - in "I Will Not Forget You" where she sings
"...I was so scared...".

BTW, being a big fan, is there a possibility of there being another
forum for discussing Sarah?            

 
x-gateway: rodan.UU.NET from love-hounds to rec.music.gaffa; Fri, 21 Aug 1992 12:37:07 EDT
Date: Fri, 21 Aug 1992 12:29:37 -0400
From: usenet@transfer.stratus.com (Mr. Network News)
Errors-To: Love-Hounds-request@uunet.uu.net
Subject: Re: Misc
Message-ID: <2797244944@dwetzel.mis.stratus.com>
Reply-To: Dave_Wetzel@vos.stratus.com
Organization: Dave_Wetzel
Newsgroups: rec.music.gaffa


In article <aaDsPB2w165w@netrun.cts.com> rhill@netrun.cts.com (ronald 
hill) writes:
>         Eric asked if the version of "Here Comes The Flood" is simular 
to 
> the one on the "Shaking the tree" record.  Well, I don't know!  As I 
> don't have the "Shaking The Tree" record.  THe one from the Christmas 
> show was pretty simple, and I seem to remember that there was another 
> version of the song on one of Robert Fripp's albums that was also very 
> simple, but don't quote me.  I'm not much into rare-gabriel.  :-) 

There are three versions of PG's HCTF.  The first is from PG's first solo 
albumn (1977; the one with the car on it).  That's my personal fav.  There 
is one on Fripp's Exposure albumn (1979).  Fripp adds his electronic magic 
to the song, but PG still sings it.  And last year, a very different piano 
solo version appeared on PG's "Shaking the Tree" albumn.

All of them are good and each is a little different.

--------------
Dave_Wetzel@vos.stratus.com
x-gateway: rodan.UU.NET from love-hounds to rec.music.gaffa; Fri, 21 Aug 1992 13:05:48 EDT
Date: Fri, 21 Aug 1992 13:03:02 -0400
From: s.telford@ed.ac.uk (Scott Telford)
Errors-To: Love-Hounds-request@uunet.uu.net
Subject: Re: ???? Songs never discussed on Love-Hounds ????
Message-ID: <42028@skye.dcs.ed.ac.uk>
Distribution: world
Organization: Edinburgh University Home for Deranged Kate Bush Fans.
Newsgroups: rec.music.gaffa


In article <RLkuPB1w165w@netrun.cts.com>, rhill@netrun.cts.com (ronald
hill) writes:

> KITE 

I don't remember what KaTe has said about this, but to me, this song 
seems to be metaphorically referring to drugs.  The first verse
expresses the desire to escape from mundane life, the next describes
apparently surreal experiences ("I got no limbs and I'm like a feather
on the wind" - Ok, so they're all kite metaphors as well...but hidden
double metaphors are KaTe's speciality, aren't they? 8^) and the
last suggests regret and inability to revert to normal life: "And I'd
like to be back on the ground/But I don't know how to get down" -
addiction of course! And there's the old cliche "high as a kite" too.

Oh, and (tenuous link) speaking of songs of the Tour of Life era, has
anybody else noticed that in the bit in the Hammersmith video, after
Feel It, where Simon Drake walks across the stage, he's leafing
through a girly magazine? That must have raised a few eyebrows of
people reading the props list....8^)

-- 
Scott Telford, Dept of Computer Science, / "Can I assume you're pissed out of
University of Edinburgh, Mayfield Rd,    /  your head on 'Big Sky', on the new
Edinburgh, EH9 3JZ, UK.                  /  album?" - Peter Swales,
electric mail: s.telford@ed.ac.uk        /  interviewing Kate Bush, 1985.
Date: Tue, 18 Aug 1992 06:17:04 -0400
From: GTP10@phx.cam.ac.uk
Errors-To: Love-Hounds-request@uunet.uu.net
Subject: Re: Maire Brennan
Message-ID: <A6291171E4C94670@UK.AC.CAMBRIDGE.PHOENIX>
Newsgroups: rec.music.gaffa

>"Tim.Harris" <tharris@computing-department.poly-south-west.ac.uk> writes:
 
>>Isn't Maire Brennan the vocalist from Clannad?
 
>Yep Enya's sister. What I want to know who are the other Brennan's on the
>Maire album?(Olive, Dee and someone else?). I assume their they're other
> members of the clan.
 
They are all younger sisters - the third one is Brigid. Brigid did BV's on
Clannad's last tour. All three did BV's at an amazing charity concert Maire
did here in Cambridge last year - the fact that she married a man from
Cambridge has its advantages :-)
 
Geoff Parks
Date: Wed, 19 Aug 1992 11:41:13 -0400
From: s.telford@ed.ac.uk (Scott Telford)
Errors-To: Love-Hounds-request@uunet.uu.net
Subject: Re: *** DIE-HARD Kate Bush Fan Quiz WITH ANSWERS ***
Message-ID: <41881@skye.dcs.ed.ac.uk>
Organization: Edinburgh University Home for Deranged Kate Bush Fans.
Newsgroups: rec.music.gaffa


In article <LsgoPB1w165w@netrun.cts.com> rhill@netrun.cts.com (ronald
hill) writes:

>        THE DIE HARD KATEFAN QUIZ

>        6 - Intermediate) Who is Nicholas Wade?

>        6) Apparently, Kate herself.  This was the name given for the 
>Editor of the first few issues of The Kate Bush Club Newsletter as well 
>as the author of Leaving My Tracks, which was Kate's aborted 
>autobiography.

[Well, Ron & IED certainly beat me on this quiz 8^)]

Where was this reference to "Leaving My Tracks"? The only reference I've
seen (in some music encyclopaedia mentioned in Homeground 42(?)) gave
the author as K. Bush.

On the subject of the KBC mag, I think the Illustrated Collector's
Guide lists an issue published in early 1989 (ie, before the last full 
issue, the TSW one) which wasn't in Ron's list posted last year.
Anybody know about this one?





--
Scott Telford, Dept of Computer Science,      electric mail: s.telford@ed.ac.uk
University of Edinburgh, Mayfield Rd, Edinburgh, EH9 3JZ, UK.
------- Rollin' over like a big, big cloud/Walkin' out in the Big Sky! --------
Date: Wed, 19 Aug 1992 19:00:21 -0400
From: MTARR@EAGLE.WESLEYAN.EDU
Errors-To: Love-Hounds-request@uunet.uu.net
Subject: Things
Message-ID: <01GNRYDKFCLC8Y5RLG@EAGLE.WESLEYAN.EDU>
Newsgroups: rec.music.gaffa
x-gateway: Wed from love-hounds to rec.music.gaffa; Wed, 19 Aug 1992 19:55:14 EDT

Hi!

As for the elusive KT symbol on TSW, I have a poster of that cover that takes
up one square yard of wall space, and I've stared at it many a night and
can't find it.  Maybe they decided not to airbrush it onto the posters. :)

Which makes me wonder which album cover that's supposed to be...

As for Sarah McLachlan sounding like Sinead, yeah, sometimes.  But whoever
it was whose mother said she must have been scared by Joni Mitchell as a
child was closer on. :)  I don't see what people's beef with Sinead is outside
of the fact that her first album was brilliant and the second was a monumental
waste of time for everyone involved (IMO), but that's a matter for another
list.

Famous Fans: Sinead did indeed call Kate a goddess- she sang the duet part
of "Don't Give Up" with Peter Gabriel at a concert (Amnesty International
in Brazil?  I can't remember), and when asked how she felt about that she
said something to the effect of "It was great, but I was uncomfortable singing
the part of Kate Bush because I'm only me and she's a goddess."

There are other "famous" fans, but they're not in the music or film fields-
there are many Science Fiction and Fantasy writers who count themselves among
the Kate Bush Faithful, including Lawrence Watt-Evans, Alis Rasmussen, Martha
Soukup, and others.  (For what it's worth, Tori Amos has a LOT of fans in
that area, too.)

And lest we forget someone who is about to be damned famous, Happy Rhodes
is a big fan, as well.
+===============================================================+
|			Meredith A. Tarr                        |
|	"I spent four years prostrate to the higher mind        |
|	 Got my paper, and I was free"    - Indigo Girls        |
|		    mtarr@eagle.wesleyan.edu                    |
+===============================================================+

Date: Mon, 17 Aug 1992 06:06:16 -0400
Subject: @@@ The 1992 San Diego Katemas Party, Kate-related moviews, addendum
From: rhill@netrun.cts.com (ronald hill)
Errors-To: Love-Hounds-request@uunet.uu.net
Comments: Console Cowboy
Message-ID: <V27mPB1w165w@netrun.cts.com>
Organization: NetRunner's Paradise BBS, San Diego CA
Newsgroups: rec.music.gaffa


        Well, the San Diego Katemas 92 party has came and went.  It ended 
up including only 3 people, myself, Ray Russell, and a "new" woman, 
Susan, who seemed overwhelmed by all the videos and left with 
Cloudbusting, The Cathy Demos, a video, and other goodies.  Ray brought 
his must-see two foot model of the Cloudbuster that he sometimes mounts 
to the trunk of his car! :-) 

        Ray and I stayed up late, as I had rented three movies.  The 
first was the 1971 British TV version of Wuthering Heights.  This is the 
apparently the version that Kate walked into the end of as a child, which 
inspired her to read the book, which inspired the song.  I say 
"apparently" because Kate did mention that the version she saw had "a 
hand coming through a window" and I don't remember that in the film.  It 
started off a little slow for me, but by the middle it really got going.  
I haven't read the book (hey, I'm gonna get around to it, okay :-) but I 
assume this is closer to it then the older version, as it had much more 
"devious" motivations and is very different from the original.  Overall, 
it's a must-see. 
        We also watched _The_Cruel_Sea_ (which was an inspiration for 
_The_Ninth_Wave_), during which Ray fell asleep, which shows how exciting 
it is!   Actually it's the scenes that focus on the people that are 
boring, the "water" scenes are sometimes quite interesting.  There's a 
sonar sound throughout the film that's very simular to the sound in The 
Ninth Wave.
        The next day I watched _Castway_, for which 
_Be_Kind_To_My_Mistakes_ was written.  It's about a woman who answers an 
add to stay a year on an empty island with a man.  It co-stars Amanda 
Donohue, who just left L.A. Law (she was the lesbian character).  I had 
seen the beggining before Amanda joined LA Law and couldn't sit through 
it.  It was more interesting this time, though not that good.  At the end 
the male character said to the female character, "Be Kind To My 
Mistakes".


        Oops, here are some parts I forgot from my description of my 
Boston Katemas '92 trip: 

        While I was transfering planes in Kansas city, I met a guy from 
Bulgaria.  I asked him if he had heard of the Trio Bulgaria, of course, 
he had, and he couldn't believe that I had! 

        In Cambridge, Val and I saw a van that had a sign that 
proclaimed.... Wait for it!... That Stephen King murdered John Lennon!  
(Yes, the famous Stephen King).  It had documentary "evidence" (including 
photo comparisions) and on the back it said "It's no joke, folks".  :-) 



        

---
rhill@netrun.cts.com (ronald hill)
NetRunner's Paradise BBS, San Diego CA
Date: Fri, 14 Aug 1992 23:55:12 -0400
Subject: *** FAQ FTP FIX ****
From: rhill@netrun.cts.com (ronald hill)
Errors-To: Love-Hounds-request@uunet.uu.net
Message-ID: <JB3iPB6w165w@netrun.cts.com>
From: UK04160@ukpr.uky.edu
Errors-To: Love-Hounds-request@uunet.uu.net
Subject:      Never Forever boxed set
Newsgroups: rec.music.gaffa
x-gateway: Thu from love-hounds to rec.music.gaffa; Thu, 20 Aug 1992 20:02:03 EDT

This is probably old news to some of you, but according to
several ads in GOLDMINE a boxed set of NEVER FOREVER will
be out later this month. The package will be similar
to A LIONESS AT HEART in that it contains the UK CD,
a 12" X 12" book with "rare and unreleased photos and text
by the fan club", and (I think) a T-shirt. Prices are
in the $75 range once again....

At a recent record show, I picked up a used copy of the LIVE AT
BRISTOL set. The packaging is nice, but the sound quality is
quite poor (it would have been really nice if the person recording
the show had taken his tape recorder out of his pants, eh?).
Still, it's quite nice to have a complete TOUR OF LIFE show, and
the performances are very good. Are there any better sounding
 concert tapes of this tour out there??? (not including HAMMERSMITH,
of course).

Paul R. (uk04160@ukpr.uky.edu)
Date: Wed, 19 Aug 1992 01:59:08 -0400
Subject: Kate Bush Symbols  SPOILERS
From: rhill@netrun.cts.com (ronald hill)
Errors-To: Love-Hounds-request@uunet.uu.net
Comments: Console Cowboy
Message-ID: <NFoqPB1w165w@netrun.cts.com>
Organization: Bowling Green State University B.G., Oh.
Apparently-To: uunet!rec-music-gaffa
Newsgroups: rec.music.gaffa


I talked to Tori after a show in Columbus, OH about three weeks
ago and she told me that Sugar was one of her all time favorite
songs.  She also said that it might be on the next album.  When
I told her that I thought she should include lyrics with b-sides
and that I couldn't make out all the words, she sang it for me!

Needless to say, with Tori singing just for me- literally two
inches from my face- looking right into my eyes, I have no idea
what she said.  I think I was in shock.  (She is one of the
nicest and most genuine people I have ever talked to.  I love
that woman!)

Anyhow, does anyone know the lyrics or have any input on what the
song means?  I would really like to hear what you think!

Thanks in advance!


************************************************************************

And what is good, Phaedrus,  Brian Matchick           Bowling Green State
and what is not good-        1445 Clough  Apt. 106-B  University- 
need we ask anyone           Bowling Green, Oh 43402
to tell us these things?     (419) 354-2292        
                  
 cs-net addr-       matchick@andy.bgsuvax.edu 

If our brains were simple enough for us to comprehend, we would be too
simple to comprehend them.  - ??? 

*************************************************************************
x-gateway: rodan.UU.NET from love-hounds to rec.music.gaffa; Sat, 22 Aug 1992 13:08:26 EDT
Date: Sat, 22 Aug 1992 13:05:30 -0400
From: scasterg@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (Stuart M Castergine)
Errors-To: Love-Hounds-request@uunet.uu.net
Subject: Re: ???? Songs never discussed on Love-Hounds ????
Message-ID: <1992Aug22.165531.14931@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu>