HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: d90gl@efd.lth.se (Gustaf Loefberg)
Subject: Re: Wide-body drivers
Reply-To: d90gl@efd.lth.se (Gustaf Loefberg)
Organization: Lund Institute of Technology
Date: Mon, 14 Sep 1992 08:11:34 GMT

This summer I bought a Spalding Tour Edition Persimmon driver
mainly because it's so beautiful. The great thing about it is
that I find it as forgiving as my metal driver. Don't you think
that this thing with larger and larger sweetspots are overrated.
I played tennis before and this reminds me of when Prince released
their oversized tennisracket. It was popular for a while but then
everybody went to the midsize version instead.
The psychological aspect on larger clubheads is interesting though.
My persimmon headed driver has got a larger head than my old metal
and I feel more comfortable with it though the sweetspot is probably
smaller.

Gustaf
From: gately@pilot.njin.net (Brian Gately)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.golf
Subject: Driving Irons
Date: 7 Sep 92 00:18:21 GMT
Organization: Rutgers Univ., New Brunswick, N.J.


I'm a fairly new golfer and I'm considering buying a driving iron
like the B1 or the Controller.  Anyone have any experience with
clubs like these?  Are they as easy to hit as the ads claim?
Newsgroups: rec.sport.golf
From: dking@raul.nas.nasa.gov (Dan King)
Subject: Re: Rules question
Keywords: O. B., Rules
Organization: Numerical Aerodynamic Simulation Facility NASA
Date: Tue, 8 Sep 92 15:33:40 GMT
Reply-To: dking@raul.nas.nasa.gov (Dan King)


tm>In article <1992Sep8.141111.21519@nstn.ns.ca> maceache@fox.nstn.ns.ca (Tim Maceachern) writes:
bt>twete@tweety.wr.tek.com (Bob Twete) writes:

bt>I did hit a provisional, played the provisional and took a *.

tm>Yes.  When you found the first ball not O.B. your provisional ball was dead.
tm>At that point you had to revert to playing the first ball again.  If you
tm>continued playing the provisional you did not complete the hole and must
tm>take an X, or a DNF in a tournament.

If I understand the playing the wrong ball rule correctly, the penalty isn't
an X or a DNF, but a two stroke penalty in stroke play or a loss of hole in
Match play.

Rule 15. Playing a Wrong Ball
 
15-1 General
 A player must hole out with the ball played from the
TEEING GROUND unless a Rule permits him to substitute
another ball.  If a player substitutes another ball when
proceeding under an applicable rule which does nor per-
mit substitution, that ball is not a WRONG BALL; it becomes
the BALL IN PLAY and, if the error is not corrected as provided
in Rule 20-6, the player shall incur a penalty of loss of hole
in match play or two strokes in stroke play.
 
My understanding from this reading, Bob illegally played his
provisional ball.  But once he illegally played (After he
discovered his ball was in-bounds), it then became his 
BALL IN PLAY.  He would then continue playing that ball,
(I would assume he would count it at the time as hitting 
his fourth shot) and if playing stroke play he would add 
2 strokes to his score at the end of playing the hole.
 
I'm new at the rules business and am only going by my
one year out of date Rules of Golf book.  If anyone
has more information, I'd be interested in hearing if 
my interpretation is wrong.  

Dan King

Newsgroups: rec.sport.golf
From: seymour@bnr.ca (Jeffrey Seymour)
Subject: Re: Wide-body drivers
Reply-To: seymour@bnr.ca (Jeffrey Seymour)
Organization: Bell-Northern Research Ltd.
Date: Thu, 10 Sep 92 12:36:51 GMT

The only experience a have had with a wide body driver was with one called the whale.  I could not do anything at all with it.  A use a standard run-of-the-mill spalding executive driver (metal wood).  Its not fancy but I am almost always about 240 yds out AND in the fairway. 

IMHO unless you are a fantastic golfer with 10 hcp or less I think that the added effort spent (time & $$) on relearning how to drive with a different driver would be better spent on refining what you are already doing. Unless there is no room for improvement (just kidding).

my 2c (cdn)
From: un024046@wvnvms.wvnet.edu
Newsgroups: rec.sport.golf
Subject: Discount houses
Date: 12 Sep 92 05:20:12 GMT
Organization: West Virginia Network for Educational Telecomputing

Here are several numbers you can call to request catalogs:
	Performance   1-800-727-2453
	Golfsmith     1-800-456-3344
	Golf Day      1-800-669-8600
	Austad's      1-800-759-4653   
	Edwin Watts   1-800-874-0146

The best thing to do is go to your local shop, try out the equipment and find
out what you like, and then call mail order companys to get a price quote, and
then go back to local shop see if they can match it.
I would buy thing at local shops if their price is not much highe than mail 
orders, because you can always trade in or exchange or return them easily.
Good luck.



						Tim Chen
Newsgroups: rec.sport.golf
From: borden@binah.cc.brandeis.edu
Subject: Discount houses
Reply-To: borden@binah.cc.brandeis.edu
Organization: Brandeis University
Date: Fri, 11 Sep 1992 14:22:15 GMT

I need any info regarding discount shops or catalogs since I'm looking 
to purchase some new clubs (before my wife changes her mind) ASAP. I
will thank everyone in advance for any input.

ed (NUNI) borden
From: censwm@cend3c7.caledonia.hw.ac.uk (Stuart W Munn)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.golf
Subject: PC Software Info
Date: 14 Sep 92 14:08:33 GMT
Organization: Department of Computer Science, Heriot-Watt University, Scotland

This may be a FAQ.

I would like to get some software on a PC. To keep track of scores, work out handicaps, etc for a group of players. I suppose Golf Clubs have this sort of thing. I would prefer shareware or freeware if possible.


-- 
=========================================================================
Stuart Munn
Heriot-Watt University                  "The sky is BLACK . . .
Edinburgh                                therefore GOD, he is a St Mirren
Scotland, EH14 4AS                       supporter!!!"
031 451-3265
031 451-3261 FAX                        God may have a Harley . . .
E-Mail censwm@UK.AC.HW.CLUST            But the Pope rides a Guzzi! 
=========================================================================
From: "kathy lessa" <kathy.lessa@execnet.com>
Newsgroups: rec.sport.golf
Subject: golf etiquette
Date: 10 Sep 92 02:45:05 EST
Reply-To: "kathy lessa" <kathy.lessa@execnet.com>
Distribution: rec
Organization: Executive Networks Information

KM>my friends and I often waved faster groups through, and slower groups
KM>just as often allowed us to play through. This year, I haven't been
KM>waved through once.

KM>Is this poor etiquette just due the greater number of new golfers? I
KM>don't know; it seems that the level of rudeness has also risen among
KM>long time golfers.

Well, maybe some folks just don't know the etiquette itself.  Which brings
me to *my* question...

My group almost always plays relatively fast (compared to the field).  Is
it appropriate to ASK to play through?  At what point do you do so?  And
exactly how do you do it?

In other words, let's say that group A is on the 5th teebox, no one's hit
yet, and my group has just holed out on the 4th.  Is it appropriate to
approach them and ask, "mind if we play through" (if there's an empty hole
up in front of them, that is).   Should they then stop, and allow my group
to tee off, and wait for us before proceeding?

As I said, we golf relatively fast, so never had much experience with
folks asking to play through.  On the occasions when it's happened, it's
been usually a pair, or just one player.  Again, I'm not sure of the
protocol when someone asks if they can play through... if we're already in
progress on a hole, do they 'catch up' with us, hole out, and proceed?  

I WANT to follow etiquette -- unfortunately, my golf training consists of
some group classes, and then friends hacking about, so I just don't KNOW
if we're doing something wrong or not.
---
  DeLuxe 1.25 #89  God made women.  Men evolved from monkeys.
--
Executive Network Information System  (914) 667-4567
International ILink Host
Newsgroups: rec.sport.golf
From: 21329JMK@MSU
Subject: Re: 6 Re: Wide-body drivers
Organization: Michigan State University
Date: 10 Sep 1992 14:20:03 EDT

------------------------- Original Article -------------------------
In <1992Sep10.155209.5586@wdl.loral.com> bll@wdl1.wdl.loral.com (Brad Loney) wri

>I tried several types of drivers at the range.  I ended up purchasing the
>Mid-Size Taylor Made driver 10.5 degrees loft.  This driver is a little more
>conventional then say the "Big Bertha".  The biggest advantage of a larger

A friend made me a Black Jack graphite head with a graphite shaft for $80.
Last year I used a 3-iron of the tee instead of my metal driver.  Today
(same swing as last year but slower) I consistantly hit the Black Jack
230 - 250 yards (still slice it some but it's playable)
Organization: University of Maine System
Date: Thursday, 10 Sep 1992 12:29:15 EDT
From: <RPT378@MAINE.MAINE.EDU>
Newsgroups: rec.sport.golf
Subject: Re: Club Position on the Backswing

Danny asks about the position of the club at the top of the backswing... you wi
ll see many different techniques on all parts of the golf swing.  Everyone at
some point has to think in terms of swinging in such a way as allows the club
to return to square at impact..there are lots of variations on how to do this
and lots of them work.  The real challenge is to get back to square, by whateve
r method is comfortable for you, in a repeatable fashion.  When you keep your
left arm straightened during the backswing, yes, you are creating a tension
(coiling) along the left side of the body.  This is good for power reasons if
you can control it during the downswing.  Swings are really a personal characte
ristic that come in many flavors; there are principles which must be addressed

in all swings (i.e. getting back to square), but there are different methods to
do that over and over again.  Just watch the Tour players, very individualistic
attempts to handle all the principles related to a repeatable,  productive swin
g.  Larry Z.
Newsgroups: rec.sport.golf
From: yeonwook@hardy.u.washington.edu (Mark Choi)
Subject: Golf Clubs, Mizuno
Organization: University of Washington, Seattle
Date: Sun, 6 Sep 1992 01:43:35 GMT



What are the differences between the various Mizuno golf club types?

Thanks
-- 
    .  .      +---------------------------------+
  --|--|      | Mark Yeon Wook Choi             |
   /.\ |      | yeonwook@hardy.u.washington.edu |
  --|--|      +---------------------------------+  
Newsgroups: rec.sport.golf
From: rwoh@engin.umich.edu (Richard Holt)
Subject: Re: ETIQUITTE
Date: Tue, 15 Sep 92 22:19:07 EDT
Organization: University of Michigan Engineering, Ann Arbor

In article <1992Sep14.091843.657@rulway.LeidenUniv.nl> crisar@rulcvx.LeidenUniv.nl (Anton van Rosmalen) writes:
>Playing the local club tournemant , last sunday i boo-boo ed on the
>second hole and teed - off a couple off incches in front off the marker
>one playing partner immediatly after completing my swing corrected me 
>So i gather he knew i was in error but elected not to warn me.....
>what is the concensus on the net on this subject .

This reminds me of a situation where my friend had set his tee up
just ahead of the markers.  I pointed this out before he hit the
ball.  He then proceeded to move a marker so that his ball and tee
were then behind the markers.  This being a friendly round and all
I didnt make a fuss, but its amazing how badly people can accept
a little helpful advice.


Newsgroups: rec.sport.golf
From: ron@sni.ca (Ron Jeffrey)
Subject: compensating for elevation differences - tee to green
Summary: any rules of thumb for compensating for elevation differences
Keywords: golf distance
Organization: Siemens Nixdorf, Sietec Open Systems, Toronto, Canada
Date: Fri, 4 Sep 1992 20:07:33 GMT

I heard Ben Crenshaw comment during a tournament on a par 3 
that the drop from tee to green was 1 club in magnitude.  The net
result was that instead of hitting 5 they were hitting 6 irons.

Does anyone know of a sound (rational) rule of thumb for compensating
for elevation changes to the target (+/-) that would help in club
selection?

Something like for every x ft of drop/increase % of club should be added
or subtracted?

-- 
Ron Jeffrey 			Siemens Nixdorf Information Systems Ltd.
ron@snitor.uucp 		2235 Sheppard Ave. E., Willowdale, Ontario
uunet!snitor!ron        	Canada M2J 5B5       (416-496-8510)
From: wayman@lamar.ColoState.EDU (Jeffrey Wayman)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.golf
Subject: Re: sybervision
Date: 4 Sep 92 22:25:22 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: Colorado State University, Fort Collins, CO  80523

In article <fragante.715632448@unixg.ubc.ca> fragante@unixg.ubc.ca (Gv Fragante) writes:
>In <Sep04.021728.57751@yuma.ACNS.ColoState.EDU> wayman@lamar.ColoState.EDU (Jeffrey Wayman) writes:
>
>
>>Does anyone know if Sybervision still makes their golf tape?
>>Does anyone have one they'd like to get rid of?  Thanks!
>
>You referring to the one of AL Geiberger ? I saw that one and didn't make much
>sense or impact. Supposed to be some sort of subliminal programming or
>subconscious mind training, but the music quickly put me to sleep.

Yeah, that's the one.  A lot of people didn't care for it, which is 
what made me think it might be out of print.  I thought it was great
when I was in a position to concentrate on it.  If anyone has any info
on it, I'd be grateful.

Jeff       wayman@lamar.colostate.edu
From: ian@hpopd.pwd.hp.com (Ian Watson)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.golf
Subject: Re: Rules question
Date: 9 Sep 92 08:26:50 GMT
Organization: Hewlett-Packard ISG-SBU-PWD, UK.

> >Thanks for the help. I am pretty sure I got the correct answer. I actually
> >simplified this a bit. The ball was found after I had declared the ball
> >lost. So I was stuck with a lost ball pentalty anyway. I just wanted to
> >know what I should do if I had found the ball first. 
> 
> Ok, folks....please read the above....now re-read it....Once *you* declare
> the ball lost, it does not matter if it is found in the fence, on the fence,
> under the fence (you get the picture).  The ball is lost.  
> 
> Mark
> --
> Mark Koenig, Optimization Specialist

I thought the same way until a few weeks ago.  I made a posting and as part of
a response, Charlie Shub pointed out that there is no such thing as "declaring
a ball to be lost".  We all seem to play it, and most of the time it makes no
difference.  

This is because we "declare" the ball lost, then put another into play (e.g. by
hitting our provisional from a point farther on than where the original was
likely to have gone).  However, it is not the declaration which makes the
original lost -- it is the putting of the other ball into play.

So what, you may say.  Charlie pointed out a rules decision where it DOES make
a difference :  You've stuffed a tee shot into the trees, then hit your
provisional to the lip of the hole.  You prefer to be there for 3 than in the
trees for 1.  Declaring the first to be lost so that you get the second ball is
NOT allowed.  The race is on between you trying to put the second ball into
play and your opponent trying to find your original before you do so.

On reading rule 27a, though, 

[ A ball is lost if : 
   a. It is not found or identified as his by the player within five minutes
   after the player's side or his or their caddies have begun to search for
   it... ]
   
it seems that an opponent finding a ball may not prevent the player from
rendering it lost through any of 27a, b, or c.  27a is not a terrific
piece of text : does the 'found' relate to 'by the player' in the same way as
'identified as his' does ?  what if they don't begin a search for it ?  It seems
like the rule never takes into account that you might NOT want to search and
find a ball.  Any Rules marshalls out there ?  Charlie, anyone else ? Help !

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Ian Watson, HP Pinewood Information Systems Division, England.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
From: warren@cbnewsh.cb.att.com (warren.a.montgomery)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.golf
Subject: Another question for clubhouse lawyers
Keywords: wind, movement
Date: 14 Sep 92 13:28:07 GMT
Organization: AT&T

During a recent round on a very windy day, as I stepped up to
address a putt the ball started to jiggle in the wind and suddenly
rolled away.  This being a friendly round, I just played it from
where it stopped, no penalty, but wondered what the correct ruling
for such a situation was.  Would it matter if it had hit my
stationary putter?  What if it had rolled into the cup, or hit
another player's ball?  Just curious.

-- 

	Warren Montgomery
	att!iexist!warren
Newsgroups: rec.sport.golf
From: mzimmers@netcom.com (Michael Zimmers)
Subject: Re: Pebble Beach opening
Date: Tue, 08 Sep 92 17:23:19 GMT
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services  (408 241-9760 guest) 

In article <508@ssdc.UUCP> eseeger@ssdc.UUCP (Eric Seeger) writes:
>Fellow golfers,

>I know I might just be barking up a tree, but I have to ask anyway. Are
>there any groups of golfers that may have an opening at Pebble Beach
>and interested in one 'golf whore' to fill the spot.  I am going to 
>be in San Francisco on business from Wed. Sept 16th to Friday Sept 18th.
>But, I am going to fly out on Sunday evening with clubs in hand to play
>some of your beautiful coarses in the Monteray area.  So, if there
>is anyone out there who may have an opening on Monday or Tuesday the 
>14th or 15th you will have made one golfer quite happy.  BTW, I am 
>an 8 handicap, which probably won't hold up on that coarse.

I don't know exactly what you're looking for, but one of the nice
things about a $200+ price tag is that getting on usually isn't
too tough.  Call the day before and ask.  As an alternative, just
show up -- Twosomes and threesomes are quite commonplace.

While you're out, I'd also recommend Spyglass Hill (if you really want
to feel like a 32 handicapper), Spanish Bay for a Scottish-style
track, and Poppy Hills.  Carmel Valley Ranch is also nice.
-- 
Michael Zimmers                                    |  Home:  408 996 1984
SoftHelp                                           |  Work:  408 996 1965
Software Solutions for Open Systems                |  Data:  408 996 1974
From: ian@hpopd.pwd.hp.com (Ian Watson)
Date: Fri, 11 Sep 1992 13:08:18 GMT
Subject: Re: The Rules of Golf vs the State of Oregon
Organization: Hewlett-Packard ISG-SBU-PWD, UK.
Newsgroups: rec.sport.golf


My suggestion would be to mark out-of-bounds, leaving enough of a margin that a
player standing OOB playing a ball in bounds would never need to stand in the
wetlands.  Notices saying that entry to the wetlands was forbidden by law would
be enough to discourage the player from wandering around in them while lining
up his shot and so on.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Ian Watson, HP Pinewood Information Systems Division, England.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Newsgroups: rec.sport.golf
From: koenig@convex.com (Mark Koenig)
Subject: Re: Rules question
Keywords: O. B., Rules
Organization: CONVEX Computer Corporation, Richardson, Tx., USA
Date: Tue, 8 Sep 1992 02:11:38 GMT
X-Disclaimer: This message was written by a user at CONVEX Computer
              Corp. The opinions expressed are those of the user and
              not necessarily those of CONVEX.

twete@tweety.wr.tek.com (Bob Twete) writes:

>...second shot takes off like a rocket, takes a hard left turn, hits and
>sticks in the fence.  The fence marks the O.B. line. There are no white
 ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
 important fact....
>markers and the card notes that the fence is O. B. The ball is found
>and identified as mine.

>Question #1:
>Is the ball O.B.?

This is tough, according to Rule 27 (definition):
"Out of Bounds" is ground on which play is prohibited.  When out of bounds is
defined by reference to stakes or a fence, or as being beyond stakes or a
fence, the out of bounds line determined by the nearest inside points of the
stakes or fence posts at ground level excluding angled supports. 

A ball is out of bounds when all of it lies out of bounds.
                             ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
If your ball was *in* the fence, presumably some part of the ball was in bounds?

>Question #2:
>If the ball is not O.B. what can I do?

Assuming part of the ball was in bounds, start with Rule 13-1. :
Ball Played as it Lies:
The ball shall be played as it lies, except as otherwise provided in the Rules.
(Ball at rest moved - see Rules 18.)

Now go to Rule 28.  Ball Unplayable
The player may declare his ball unplayable at any place on the course except
when the ball lies in or touches a *water hazard*.  The player is the sole
judge as to whether his ball is unplayable.
If the player deems his ball to be unplayable, he shall, *under penalty of
one stroke*:
 a. Play a ball as nearly as possible at the spot from which the original ball
    was last played (see Rule 20-5).
	 or
 b. Drop a ball within two club-lengths of the spot where the ball lay, but
    not nearer the hole.

>I did hit a provisional, played the provisional and took a *.

Unless your ball was *completely* out-of-bounds, you cheated yourself.....

Which reminds me of an interesting story I heard this weekend on the course.
A young golfer was playing in the "city" championship, he did not make the
cut.  When a friend asked how he did, he mentioned that the other player had
cheated during his round.  "How come you did not turn him in?", asked his
friend.  He replied, "I cheated too".

Good Putting!
Mark
--
Mark Koenig, Optimization Specialist
Convex Computer Corporation         koenig@convex.com
P.O. Box 833851  M.S. SAL           Phone: (214) 497-4298
Richardson, Texas  75083-3851       FAX:   (214) 497-4550
Newsgroups: rec.sport.golf
From: boncelet@claude.eecs.umich.edu (Charles Boncelet)
Subject: Re: The Rules of Golf vs the State of Oregon
Organization: University of Michigan EECS Dept., Ann Arbor
Distribution: sqnt
Date: Mon, 14 Sep 1992 14:42:34 GMT

In article <1992Sep11.180839.12482@sequent.com> john@sequent.com (John Vander Borght) writes:
>sheldon@kong.gsfc.nasa.gov (Roger Sheldon - AISS) writes:
>>In article <1992Sep10.160438.28741@sequent.com> john@sequent.com (John Vander Borght) writes:
>>>How do you think this should be resolved?
>
>>That's easy.  Just put the out-of-bounds markers a few feet inside the
>>hazard so nobody will have to stand in the wetlands.
>
>That puts them in the fairway on a couple of the holes.
>
>I disagree with putting Out of Bounds in the middle of a golf course.
>
>John Vander Borght
>john@sequent.com

I, for one, agree with John's original suggestion: treat them as water
hazards, but forbid anyone from entering the hazard (crossing the
margin).  Perhaps a local rule can enforce this?  If not, the rules
makers should allow for it in the next revision.

Out of bounds carries an entirely different penalty than ball in
hazard.  The course architects tend to put hazards more "in play" than
OB.   The course in question would probably not play fairly if the
water hazards played as OB.

	Charlie Boncelet <boncelet@eecs.umich.edu>

Newsgroups: rec.sport.golf
From: john@meaddata.com (John Manion)
Subject: Re: Rules question
Organization: Mead Data Central, Dayton OH
Date: Thu, 10 Sep 1992 17:42:03 GMT

In article <1992Sep10.183829.1@ntc01.tele.nokia.fi>, sirkeinen@ntc01.tele.nokia.fi writes:
|> 
|> 
|> 	Declaring a ball 'lost' without searching it is not possible either.
 
 Unless of course searching for it would mean you couldn't finish in under 
 four hours.  Declare it lost but don't take any practice swings.  :*)

|> 
|> 	George

-- 
|John T Manion      | What I like about    |                 (513) 865-1773|   
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