HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: jeq@i88.isc.com (Jonathan E. Quist)
Subject: Re: Hinckley Crash
Keywords: twin engine aircraft on tkof
Organization: INTERACTIVE Systems Corporation, Naperville, IL
Date: Mon, 14 Sep 1992 19:16:48 GMT

In article <ritter.716495691@claude> ritter@claude.ma30.bull.com (Roger Ritter) writes:
>karl@ddsw1.mcs.com (Karl Denninger) writes:
>
>>It seems insane that at some three miles from the field, which represents
>>a time greater than one minute from take-off, that the pilot would not have 
>>retracted the gear in the face of a known energy management problem (engine 
>>out condition).  He certainly wasn't going to need the gear to land in a 
>>soybean field!  
>
>This is speculation, but if the Beech 18 has a hydraulic retraction
>mechanism, and the hydraulic pump is on only one engine, and that is
...

Having seen a number of Beech 18's in operation, it wouldn't surprise me
in the least if they're capable of a more or less normal landing in a
soybean field - recall that this one took off from turf.  (Yes, I'm aware
of the difference between hard turf and a cultivated field.)
-- 
Jonathan E. Quist                              INTERACTIVE Systems Corporation
jeq@i88.isc.com  '71 CL450-K4 "Gleep", DoD #094        Naperville, IL
        There are many things a person should experience in a lifetime.
       Among them are an infant's first cry, and an infant's first laugh.
Newsgroups: rec.aviation
From: enns@waterloo.hp.com (Roger Enns)
Subject: Re: Canard Pros -n- Cons
Date: Fri, 11 Sep 1992 12:31:16 GMT
Organization: HP Panacom Div Waterloo ON Canada
X-Newsreader: Tin 1.1.3 PL5

Regarding flight characterisics of canard-wing aircraft, I have
the following comments.
Once the aircraft is in flight, at cruise, say, the Dragonfly
feels very much like a conventional aircraft.  I'm sure if a
designer of a canard-winged aircraft wanted to mimick the in
flight characteristics of a C-152, it would be possible, until
the region approaching the stall, that is.  Stability, control
response, and other in-flight characteristics are dependant upon
the design, not so much on the configuration, IMHO.
At the present time, we have the Dragonfly set up to allow enough
elevator deflection to attain a full canard stall.  Some people
have recommended adjusting this so that the the stall cannot be
attained, as a safetly measure.  I have flown the DF with such an
adjustment made.  In this case, if you fly short final too slow,
(in our case ~60knots), you will simply not have enough/any
elevator deflection to flare, or arrest the rate of descent above
the runway.  The only option then is to add power.  I didn't like
this lack of control.  It does avoid dropping the nose into the
runway, but proper pilot technique (careful monitoring of
airspeed down short final) eliminates the problem as well.  With
the elevator stops readjusted to allow the canard to stall, it is
possible to drop into the runway, (I know from experience!).
However, with the stops adjusted this way, it is possible to land
slower by keeping power on down short final, and cutting power
just before touchdown.  Also, the added elevator deflection
allows for more exilerating (sp?) pull-ups, etc.
When stalling our DF, one feels a noticable shake on the elevator
as the flow separates at the trailing edge.  As the elevator is
deflected more, the nose starts to bob slowly, through what a
ppears to be about 15 degrees.  If the aircraft is loaded aft at
the time, a simple mush may occur.  During this entire process, I
have tried various inputs, included full crossed controls, with
no surprises.  Full-power stalls are similar, only the bobbing is
a bit more vigorous, and the nose is pointed at the sky instead
of the horizon.

OK, enough babbling, and back to work...

--
Roger Enns (enns@waterloo.hp.com) Panacom Automation Division, HP
C-GIIV Dragonfly, 1979 RX7 13B, 1985 Colt, 1984 Interceptor 500
From: hopkins@gvlf9-o.gvl.unisys.com (Bill Hopkins)
Newsgroups: rec.aviation
Subject: Re: Flying saves money (sic)
Summary: It's Friday, I guess.
Date: 4 Sep 92 21:17:32 GMT
Reply-To: hopkins@gvl.unisys.com
Organization: Paramax Systems Corp (A Unisys Company), Great Valley Labs, PA

Hey, remember Geoff's cost analysis?  (This is a thread about...)

As you increase the amount you fly, and correspondingly decrease the
amount you drive, the numbers look better and better for flying.

Eventually, you'd have to sell your car to buy new sneakers for the
kids.  You'd probably end up moping around rec.autos complaining
about how you'd rather be driving...

	Bill (naah...) Hopkins

------------------------------------------------------------------------------
hopkins@GVL.Unisys.Com          Paramax Systems Corporation (A Unisys Company)
215-648-2854 or 363-7464        Great Valley Labs, PO Box 517, Paoli, PA 19301
MXE 016 radial, 8 nmi              Opening my mouth is not company policy.
Newsgroups: rec.aviation
From: mark@hpcvxmsr.cv.hp.com (Mark Rowe)
Subject: Re: slandering twins
Reply-To: mark@.cv.hp.com
Organization: UDT-CV (ITO)
Date: Fri, 11 Sep 1992 17:05:59 GMT

In article <BuE42t.ML3.2@cs.cmu.edu>, dst+@cs.cmu.edu (Dave Touretzky) writes:
  ... {lots of stuff on the ability of twins to cope with an engine out} ...
> 
> PS: for people wondering about the advantages of having a second engine,
> remember that you spend very little time in takeoff configuration; most of
> your time is spent in cruise.  An engine failure in cruise is no big deal to
> a twin driver.  It's something to think about when you're flying over a
> large body of water, or hazardous terrain, or in hard IMC at night.

But, what portion of engine outs occur during this "very little time"?

Mark Rowe       Corvallis, OR       PP-SEL G I       Comanche N5943P
Newsgroups: rec.aviation
From: hgp@cbnewsj.cb.att.com (howard.page)
Subject: Gee, it's beautiful out, I'll leave my Jepp plates at home -- Ha Ha!!!
Organization: AT&T
Date: Sun, 6 Sep 1992 23:57:26 GMT
Keywords: Yup, it happened.

Returning from Sussex, NJ to Lakewood, NJ. it looked pretty bleak.
No IFR charts, plates, no nothing. Arrrgh!

Well, all's well that ends well. MaGuire (AFB) approach was very
understanding and read me the approach. We got in with two humdred
feet to spare.  Hmmmmmmm.

Howard
From: joell@hpgrla.gr.hp.com (Joel Larner)
Date: Mon, 14 Sep 1992 21:51:36 GMT
Subject: Re: Interstate Landing--Not such a good idea
Organization: Hewlett-Packard, Greeley, CO
Newsgroups: rec.aviation

> If I lived farther west (but not too far), I think the interstates would look
> a lot friendlier -- nice and flat with long stretches with no obstacles.

Even here is the open lands (well eastern Colorado and Wyoming) the interstate
is still a poor choice.  Even when there are no cars, bridges, power lines, etc.
to spoil your day, there will always be mileposts, reflectors, etc.  to catch 
the low wing plane.

-------------------------------------------------------
Joel Larner - Hewlett Packard, Greeley Storage Division
CAP SAR Pilot            email:  joell@hpgrjq.gr.hp.com
                           CAP:  Pikes Peak 293
                    In The Air:  N182H
From: ron@pilot.njin.net (Ron Natalie)
Newsgroups: rec.aviation
Subject: Re: [IN]sensible students
Date: 1 Sep 92 13:53:51 GMT
Organization: Rutgers Univ., New Brunswick, N.J.

> I think the situation may be similiar to that of a lawyer and his client.
> The lawyer is under obligation to represent the best interests of his/her
> client independent of the best interests of society. 

No, I don't think so.  Lawyers and Doctors enjoy a specific special
relationship with their clients/patients under the law.  This does
not extend to just any service provider/customer.  Even Lawyers and
doctors have some restriction on privelege when it comes to "the
interests of society."


-Ron
Newsgroups: rec.aviation
From: dst+@cs.cmu.edu (Dave Touretzky)
Subject: what's so great about the KR-87?
Organization: School of Computer Science, Carnegie Mellon
Date: Fri, 11 Sep 1992 23:45:19 GMT


I've heard that the King KR-87 ADF is a much better unit than the earlier
models, such as the KR-85 in my Seneca or the KR-86 in the Cheetah
I used to own.  I have flown a KR-87 in a Seneca III, but didn't notice
anything special about it.  I do know that the KR-85 often has problems
caused by the band switches getting dirty.

What is it about the KR-87's receiver circuitry that makes it so superior?
Is it worth trading up?  I may eventually end up doing so for reasons of
panel space, but it would be nice to find a more substantial justification
for spending so much money.

-- Dave Touretzky,  CFI-AIM,  Seneca N8147E (``The Beast'')
From: RJOHNSON@COLGATEU.BITNET
Newsgroups: rec.aviation
Subject: Airshow in Upstate NY in mid-sept?
Date: 7 Sep 92 05:37:50 GMT

Earlier today I saw an add on TV for an airshow somewhere in upstate


Earlier today I saw an add on TV for an airshow somewhere in upstate
NY near the Binghamton area, but unfortunatly was not able to get


NY near the Binghamton area, but unfortunatly was not able to get
any more info about it.  If anyone knows about this, I would appreciate


any more info about it.  If anyone knows about this, I would appreciate
any info!


any info!



any info!
    Thanks,


    Thanks,
        Robert C. Johnson, pp-asel


        Robert C. Johnson, pp-asel
        rjohnson@colgate.edu


        rjohnson@colgate.edu



        rjohnson@colgate.edu
Newsgroups: rec.aviation
From: kerry@Ingres.COM (Kerry Kurasaki)
Subject: Re: Low lvl prog question
Reply-To: kerry@Ingres.COM (Kerry Kurasaki)
Organization: Ask Computer Systems Inc., Ingres Division, Alameda CA 94501
Date: 15 Sep 92 21:49:14 GMT

In article <1992Sep15.214754.12651@pony.Ingres.COM> kerry@Ingres.COM (Kerry Kurasaki) writes:
>In article <9209152005.AA09935@etec.com> stivers@etec.com (Robert Stivers) writes:
>
>The publication you want is AC 00-54C, "Aviation Weather Services".
>It explains most of the abbreviations that you only seem to use on
>the writtens.  It's still worth having and reading.
>
Sorry, dyslexic today.  The correct number is AC 00-45C.
                                                    ^^^

Newsgroups: rec.aviation
From: msmith@crc.ac.uk (Mike Smith x3297)
Subject: Re: Mr Spitfire , DH110
Reply-To: msmith@crc.ac.uk (Mike Smith x3297)
Organization: MRC Human Genome Resource Centre
Date: Mon, 7 Sep 1992 13:19:26 GMT

In article <rl.715825544@cgl.ucsf.edu>, rl@socrates.ucsf.edu (Robert Langridge) writes:
> geoff@hawkesbury.uws.EDU.AU (Geoff Russell) writes:
> 

> The DH-110 accident at Farnborough occurred in the early '50s, I don't
> remember the pilot's name.  
John Derry, I believe. I think that Neville Duke was a test pilot for Hawker
and that the pair were popular figures at Farnborough in those days.

> 
> Bob Langridge				Phone: +1 415 476-2630, -1540, -5128
> Computer Graphics Laboratory		               FAX: +1 415 476-0688 
> 926 Medical Sciences
> University of California	                    E-Mail: rl@cgl.ucsf.edu
> San Francisco  CA  94143-0446 

Mike Smith
-- 
Computing Services, Clinical Research Centre and   
Human Genome Mapping Project Resource Centre,     Internet:   m.smith@crc.ac.uk
Watford Rd, HARROW, Middx, HA1 3UJ                Janet:      m.smith@uk.ac.crc
Tel +44 81-869 3297 Fax +44 81-423 1275   Usenet ...!mcsun!uknet!mrccrc!m.smith
From: koolish@BBN.COM (Richard M. Koolish)
Newsgroups: rec.aviation
Subject: old altimiter question
Date: 14 Sep 92 19:49:56 GMT
Reply-To: koolish@BBN.COM (Richard M. Koolish)
Organization: Bolt Beranek and Newman Inc., Cambridge MA
NNTP-Posting-Host: bbn.com


I recently found an old (probably WWII) altimiter, made by Bulova.
It's connection to the outside world seems to be through a threaded
hole in the back.  My question is: Should this device show me the
changes in local barometric pressure by changing the altitude?  If so,
I would expect to see changes of +/- hundred feet or so as weather
systems come and go.  I see almost no change in the readings over time.
Is it busted, or do I not understand how it works?
From: kzk00@ccc.amdahl.com (  200  Klaus Kraemer)
Newsgroups: rec.aviation
Subject: Re: Contacting IFR Mag
Date: 8 Sep 92 19:38:19 GMT
Reply-To: kzk00@JUTS.ccc.amdahl.com (  200  Klaus Kraemer)
Organization: Amdahl Corporation, Sunnyvale CA

In article <1992Sep8.100556.1@pomona.claremont.edu> jhenderson@pomona.claremont.edu writes:
>> - Read the trade magazines such as Flying and IFR
>
>Speaking of which, could anyone please post the phone number or address for
>this magazine?
>
>Zenkiu.

U velkom.
IFR, 75 Holly Hill Lane, Box 2626, Greenwich, CT 06836-2626,
(203)661-6111.
Klaus.
Newsgroups: rec.aviation
From: bdboyle@erenj.com (Bryan D. Boyle)
Subject: Re: DEA on 60 minutes
Organization: Exxon Research and Engineering, NJ
Date: Thu, 10 Sep 1992 16:40:37 GMT

In article <Sep.10.11.43.48.1992.17008@pilot.njin.net> ron@pilot.njin.net (Ron Natalie) writes:
>> Let's not slam the DEA quite so hard.  Although they are probably taking
>> the law to the extreme, what they are doing is legal.  Congress passed a
>> law that stated that all assets bought by, used for transportation of, or
>> otherwise involved in drugs or drug money can be siezed by the DEA or 
>> agents when an arrest is made.
>
>The problem is that congress is not allowed to "Just pass a law" that
>subverts the consitution, which requires due process in the government
>deprivation of property or liberty.
>
>-Ron

An interesting point would be to go back to listen to the arguments used
by totalitarian demagogues during this century (Stalin and Hitler come
to mind...) to justify the removal of personal liberties (I am not going
to use the word 'rights' in this context): generally it is for 'the
protection of the people' or some other such drivel.  In actuality (and
I know some dea types...), it is a typically bureaucratic attempt on the
part of the anti-drug (and how can anyone be 'pro-drug', huh?) "forces
of light" to create a self-fulfilling and self-actualizing organ of 
government.  It is a fact that the dea is self-funding from its
seizures; it would also follow that in order to justify both its
existence and expansion (in a bureaucrat's mind it is an interlinked 
thing...) then the number and amount of seizure must increase....ad
infinitum.  And we just sit here and watch.  Remember, they even wanted
the right to shoot down any plane they suspected of carrying drugs or 
contraband a couple of years ago.  

If you read your history, the tendency of every republic is migration 
towards dictatorship.  Do you really think we are any different than 
great republics from the roman empire on down to this day?  

I realize this has nothing to do with aviation per se, but, if we as
pilots and users of a system by which we citizens give each other the 
right (in this context) to use the airspace just sit by and give up by
inaction the right to self-govern our actions, then we deserve the venal
government we get.
 
Bryan Boyle	| Opinions are mine, not Exxon's.
Senior Engineer | Former owner: PA28-180 N7068W
Exxon Research &| Fly because you can...
Engineering Co. | flame | /dev/null; constructive.commment | me

Newsgroups: rec.aviation
From: rfh3273@galileo.rtn.ca.boeing.com (Dick Harrigill)
Newsgroups: rec.aviation
Subject: Re: Oops, the throttle came off!
Date: 4 Sep 92 21:10:04 GMT
Organization: Boeing Commercial Airplane Group, Seattle

In article <1992Sep3.170111.18859@nmsu.edu> bboswell@dante.NMSU.Edu (BOSWELL) writes:
>Another common problem on Cessnas: make SURE your seat stays put before going  
>airborne!!!  A great many Cessna accidents have been caused when, on solo  
>flights, the pilot's seat rolls back upon climbout.  Both my flight club's 172s  
>have seat locks, but the 150 doesn't, and I'm only 5'6", if the seat ever came  
>back on me I'd be in TROUBLE!!!  I make it the last thing I check on runup...

Good advice.  I too am of a "seat-forward" stature and have been surprised by
an unlatched seat.  It only happened once, however, as I now give it a good
push and pull BEFORE latching my seatbelt.

On my first flight as a student, in a C150, my instructor mentioned something
about the door popping open in flight on these babies.  He even had me open and
close the door in flight once just to see that it isn't fatal or anything: "Just
keep the airplane under control, and reach out and close it - no big deal."
I had no problems - until my 1st solo.  Did 3 TGOs, and on the 2nd goaround, while 
turning crosswind, my door popped open.  I was gald for this training.


-- 
Dick Harrigill, an independent voice from:     Boeing Commercial Airplanes 
M/S 9R-49  PO BOX 3707                       Renton Avionics/Flight Systems
Seattle, WA  91824                                  Computing Support
(206) 393-9539    rfh3273@galileo.rtn.ca.boeing.com    CDP, PP-ASEL
From: alan@metasoft.UUCP (Alan Epstein)
Newsgroups: rec.aviation
Subject: Re: Single man IFR
Date: 8 Sep 92 21:28:26 GMT
Organization: Meta Software Corporation, Cambridge MA

zari@math.ethz.ch (Alain Zarinelli) writes:
>...I can't figure out
>how a single person can eventually handle all that stuff in a real IFR
>situation. Is this because the instructor (a SWISSAIR Fokker 100 pilot
>[F/O]) doesn't want you to get some breath between the different
>"exercises" or is it REALLY that much work?

I had exactly the same thought during my instrument training. It was
like learning a new foreign language while watching your 2 year old
while reading political theory while talking to the police while
balancing on precipice. I couldn't figure out how I would ever be
skilled enough to handle it all.

I'm happy to report that it is possible to handle it all, and the
trick is simply time and practice. After a while attitude flying
becomes easier, and you get smart and memorize the approach plate
beforehand, and eventually you start to get ahead of the airplane.
Take consolation in the fact that after a while you'll stop feeling
like a complete incompetent and realize that you are fairly well
coordinated after all.

Good luck.


-alan

-----------------------------
Alan Epstein
Meta Software Corp		 Internet:  alan@metasoft.com
125 Cambridgepark Dr		      IAP:  ILS 11 BED
Cambridge, MA 02140  USA	      
-----------------------------
Newsgroups: rec.aviation
From: jhenderson@pomona.claremont.edu
Subject: Re: New Career in Flying?
Organization: Pomona College
Date: 10 Sep 92 13:44:07 PDT

> 
> Has anybody changed careers at the age of 36 from say programming computers to
> flying airplanes for a living?  I see ad's in the magazines that say you can
> get a license (commercial) within a year or so provided you go to their school
> full time of course.  Now, Can you make say 30 or 40K per year flying when you
> graduate?  Is it worth it?  What do you pilots say?  (What is the difference
> between a pilot and a stick holder?  The pilot makes money.)
> Please reply to TMIS1692@selu.edu as I am not a regular on the list.

How about posting here too, for those of us who take the time to read this
forum and are also interested in this kind of thing?

______________________________________________________________________________
Javier Henderson, N6VBG         | Beat the 55mph limit (legally):
jhenderson@pomona.claremont.edu | Learn to fly!
Newsgroups: rec.aviation
From: mperlman@nyx.cs.du.edu (Marshal "Airborne" Perlman)
Subject: Re: Got my Private!
Organization: University of Denver, Dept. of Math & Comp. Sci.
Date: Wed, 9 Sep 92 22:49:38 GMT

argyle@cg.emr.ca (malcolm argyle) writes:

>>--
>Well, since no one else seems to have done it - congrats on your licence!
>Oh yeh, I almost forgot - congrats on having your very own news group!
>Personally, I think the fragmentation of rec.aviation has gone too far when 
>individuals start setting up their own news groups. ;-]
>Cheers, M.
>---

Thanks..actually..I got a few (like 40 or so) replies via Mail..the
people are o so nice.

I also enjoy my own news group..being flamed is one thing,
to have yer own group is another.

Catch you later.
--
Marshal Perlman - Huntington Beach - California - USA - Earth - Milky Way 
                 Private Pilot - Airplane Single-Engine Land
From: petri@venus.iucf.indiana.edu (HOWARD PETRI)
Newsgroups: rec.aviation
Subject: Re: a lesson on exiting
Summary: getting out in a hurry
Date: 15 Sep 92 18:45:52 GMT
Reply-To: petri@venus.iucf.indiana.edu
Organization: INDIANA U. CYCLOTRON FACILITY, BLOOMINGTON, IN
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.3-4

In article <1992Sep15.153637.21964@i88.isc.com>, rmiller@i88.isc.com (Richard J. Miller) writes...
>i got a lesson from a master the other day that you all should hear,
>especially you glider types.
> 
>he noted that one of his AS-W 20s required THREE releases, IN ORDER, to
>clear the canopy (forward hinged, 2 side releases to open, then the
>canopy jettison). and he reminded me that pushing the canopy off is
>also needed on any ship.                  ^^^^^^^
>  
>Rich Miller
>Chicago Glider Club
>rmiller@i88.isc.com

     This is really useful information Rich. I have a forward hinged
canopy on my Pegasus. I know I should release the side hinges first, then
pull the canopy jettison. I wasn't sure if I needed to actually shove the
canopy off manually--I had wondered though. It makes sense since I guess
there are no forces on the canopy to lift it off until you have some way
for air to get underneath it. 
     Maybe some glider pilot out there who has actually had to
"get out and walk" could give us more info on this subject. I have heard
that below 1000 ft AGL you might as well ride it in. I know of one
story of someone dying jumping from 500 AGL. 
     Also I wonder if any of our European glider pilots would care
to pass along any new information they might have regarding the 
Reichmann incident.

Howard Petri
Pegasus N599JH
Newsgroups: rec.aviation
From: beede@sctc.com (Mike Beede)
Subject: Re: Air Lifeline experience
Organization: SCTC
Date: Mon, 14 Sep 1992 11:42:52 GMT

shafer@rigel.dfrf.nasa.gov (Mary Shafer) writes:

>Low-wing aircraft work best for people who can't walk, BTW.

I'm a little curious about this.  I assume you're talking GA aircraft,
since by the time you get to the big iron, no one gets near the wings
anyway.  So, I'd imagine that hoisting yourself over the wing would be
much more of a chore than just getting into the seat, a la Cessna 172.
Was this a typo, or is this just yet another time when intuition is a
poor guide to reality?

	Mike

-- 
Mike Beede         Secure Computing
beede@sctc.com     1210 W. County Rd E, Suite 100           
------------------ Arden Hills, MN  55112
                    (612) 482-7420
Newsgroups: rec.aviation
From: zari@math.ethz.ch (Alain Zarinelli)
Subject: Re: Time To Kill
Organization: Swiss Federal Institute of Technology, Zurich
Date: Wed, 9 Sep 1992 06:01:57 GMT


In article <archie.715991665@cory.Berkeley.EDU>, archie@cory.Berkeley.EDU (Archie Cobbs) writes:
|>
|> I always wanted to write the UNIX based logbook program to end
|> all logbook programs... using termcap of course, to make it pretty
|>                          [............]
|> A big benefit would be instant info about currency (esp. for IFR).
|>                          [............]

Archie

   That's a great idea! It's something I also was looking for already... 


John

   Did you copy? I think this could "relax" your boredom and would be useful
to all of us. And if you still have too much time: what about a User-interface
in X-windows for your program?
							Alain.
--
Alain Zarinelli                                            (PPL-CVFR/NVFR)
zari@math.ethz.ch                                                         
zari@astro.phys.ethz.ch               "If God had meant man to fly ---
zari@czheth5a.bitnet                   He would have given him more money"
Newsgroups: rec.aviation