From: silver@macbeth.umd.edu (Adam Silver)
Newsgroups: misc.fitness
Subject: SUPPLEMENTS!  (was Re: Really Strong Stuff)
Date: 14 Dec 92 02:08:11 GMT
Distribution: na
Organization: University of Maryland

In article <75498@apple.apple.COM> chuq@Apple.COM (Eeyore's Evil Twin) writes:
>silver@macbeth.umd.edu (Adam Silver) writes:
>
>>Boron is supposed to help raise
>>testosterone production by up to 300%.  BULLSHIT!
>
>Adam, is that your opinion? Or the opinion of the folks who did the research
>study you studied on the issue?

DON'T PISS ME OFF!  Whew!  I hate when people get into this bullshit with me.
WAKE UP!  I know what I am talking about if you listen to what I'm saying.
Read between the lines.

Okay, I've read reports that boron can raise testosterone levels.  Fine.
That is a fact.  I don't have my research articles in front of me.  I'm
sorry.  Anyway, an extreme case was one that had a males testosterone level
up 300% for a short time period while using boron.

Why did I say, "BULLSHIT!"?  Because the supplement manufacturers will use
that tiny piece of information to con everyone into believeing that boron
is the most worderful supplement in the world.  It's bullshit!  Period.

>Folks, I'm not arguing for or against hot stuff, or for or against Boron
>here. But can we PLEASE cut out on the emotion-based opinions that are
>little omre than hearsay? They're worthless. Either you've been studying the
>literature (and if so, quote it), or you haven't and your opinion is
>uninformed (i.e. worthless, and potentially harmful because you don't know
>what you're talking about).

I am far from uninformed, Chuq.  I have a very GOOD story to tell you about
RESEARCH as seen through your eyes.

>Take this one for example. We had a request about a specific product. Adam
>answered by relating it to a second product, taking a guess at what the
>ingredients of the product were (he didn't know), declaring those products
>worthless (although he doesn't tell us why), and therefore trashing the
>product. At least three layers of non-fact here.

True.  I know what you are saying.  Anyway, Muscle Media 2000 did has been
running tests on some of the most popular supplements on the market.  They
have distributed a list of manufacturers that have tested clean.  That means
that these manufacturers are putting everything they say they are putting in.
We know what some of the good companies are so far, and they are double and
triple checking the bad manufacturers.

Reasearch or not, I wouldn't trust any company that copies off of another
company as quickly as they find out that another company (makers of Hot Stuff)
have come up with a product that really sells.  That's what the makers of
Really Strong Stuff did.

I'm sorry that I don't always keep around research findings that I have that
say whether a product (like boron) does what people first thought.

>There's a growing body of real, honest-to-goodness, well-controlled research
>out there. There's also an amazing amount of hearsay, emotional rhetoric,
>old wive's tales and pure falsehood running around through these
>discussions.
>
>If you're going to have an opinion, make it an informed one. Cite
>references. They're not that hard to find. Let's deal with this stuff
>rationally for once, okay?

Here is the grand finale, Chuq.  I was doing real research into the
amazing new anabolic supplement Chromium Picolinate.  I saw all of the
research on it.  Well, I decided to contact the person that did all of
this amazing research.  He conduct a "well controlled" study of athletes
and non-athletes using the chromium.  He used a football team in the study.
The football team did amazingly well with the supplement.  This is a great
reseach finding.  Right?  BULLSHIT!!!!!

BULLSHIT!!!!  Did you hear that?  Why did I say this?  The guy (I forget his
name) never screened even one of the football players for steroids.  Duh.
Great research.  It was because of this research that many supplement
companies decided to sell chromium picolinate as a supplement.

>I don't know about Boron, but I have a reference at home that discusses it.
>I'll have to see what the current scientific thinking on it is.

Please do that.  Sorry for being so harsh.

>>Chromium picolinate
>>is supposed to help potentiate insulin to allow more proteins and carbs into
>>muscle cells.  Well, it does but not much.
>
>I wonder what references Adam is basing this on. It doesn't match the
>research I've seen (I've already mentioned most of it in previous postings,
>so I'll refrain from posting it again). I was reading a book last night that
>documented studies on Chromium going back to the 50s as being useful in
>blood sugar regulation. Turns out we've known about it for years and nobody
>paid any attention. 

What does your research say?

							-Adam

-- 
     **********************************************************************
     *               Adam Silver    Powerlifter/Armwrestler               *
     *           silver@umd5.umd.edu    University of Maryland            *
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