HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: jmc@SAIL.Stanford.EDU (John McCarthy)
Subject: Re: American communists and the Soviet Union
Reply-To: jmc@cs.Stanford.EDU
Organization: Computer Science Department, Stanford University
	<1992Nov18.213350.27870@vexcel.com>
Date: 18 Nov 92 18:03:54

Dean Alaska posts:

     This record is actually quite mixed.  You gloss over the
     persecution of Alger Hiss by saying there is no info yet
     when a top commumist said there is no information, period
     (I'd like to here what Nixon has to say about this).  The
     information about Bridges (at least what I saw in the paper)
     is ambiguous and indicates he _might_ have been involved.  I
     don't doubt that some were involved, but there were many who
     weren't involved who were persecuted.  This does not add up
     to "Much ... is confirmed."  Considering that the US is
     supposed to permit unpopular dissent, many people who _were_
     communists should have had the opportunity to say so and be
     proponents of this position without persection.  Only those
     who advocated _and_ practiced or assisted violent overthrow
     could justifiably be persecuted under the law.

The article wasn't vague about Hiss.  It merely said that they expect
soon to find out.  I suppose they haven't waded through all the files
yet or maybe they haven't got them all yet.  They aren't getting KGB
files but only Comintern and CPSU files.  The Russians have said they
will release no information about agents, so the references in the
Comintern files they have are sort of accidental.  We may not hear
about Hiss even if he was an agent, if they improved their security
fences later.

By the way, what top communist said there was no information?  Almost
all the top communists from that era are dead, both here and in
Russia.  Milton Wolff is still alive, but he operated in the
international arena.  Should I have the article OCRed and post it or
does your library have the American Spectator for 1992 December?
However, I think Hiss was properly convicted by enough evidence
available in America.

As for Bridges, the law concerning deportation is quite different from
the Smith Act under which communist leaders were convicted.  William
Schneiderman, who came to the U.S. at the age of two, was deported
to Russia when it was proved he was a communist.  He was one of the
open leaders.

I'm not claiming that the deportation of Schneiderman was just,
only that it was in accordance with the law as interpreted by the
judges of the time.  In fact I think it wasn't just.  Bridges, of
course, was guilty of perjury according to the present evidence.

The new evidence does refute the idea that all these trials were
based on complete fabrications.  This idea is still common in
liberal circles, witness Dean Alaska's use of the word "persecution".
Whoops, maybe "persecution" is used as a synonym for "prosecution".
--
John McCarthy, Computer Science Department, Stanford, CA 94305
*
He who refuses to do arithmetic is doomed to talk nonsense.
Newsgroups: alt.activism.d
From: rchilder@us.oracle.com (Richard Childers)
Subject: Re: American communists and the Soviet Union
Organization: Memes-R-Us
Date: Tue, 24 Nov 1992 03:28:14 GMT
X-Disclaimer: This message was written by an unauthenticated user
              at Oracle Corporation.  The opinions expressed are those
              of the user and not necessarily those of Oracle.


jmc@sail.stanford.edu (John McCarthy) writes:

>2. There really was a communist apparatus among New Deal bureaucrats
>who supplied information to Soviet intelligence in the 1930s.  There
>is no fresh information about Alger Hiss yet.


Big wow ...

>6. Harry Bridges, leader of the International Longshoreman's and
>Warehouseman's Union, whom the Government unsuccesfully attempted
>to prove was a communist subject to deportation, was not only a
>communist but a member of the Central Committee.

As someone acquainted with Harry Bridges' family, however distantly, I
can also say that he was a productive member of the commonwealth.

Guess which one counts most with me ?


-- richard

-- 
=====
-- richard childers		rchilder@us.oracle.com		1 415 506 2411
         oracle data center  --  unix systems & network administration
                    Klein flask for rent. Inquire within.
From: dean@vexcel.com (Dean Alaska)
Newsgroups: alt.activism.d
Subject: Re: LaRouche is a fucking Nazi!
Date: 16 Nov 92 21:12:17 GMT
Organization: VEXCEL Corporation, Boulder CO

In article <1992Nov16.071202.19120@muddcs.claremont.edu> weverett@jarthur.claremont.edu (William M. Everett) writes:
>In article <13NOV199222300153@reg.triumf.ca> orwell@reg.triumf.ca (BALDEN, RON) writes:
>>In article <1116@bug.UUCP>, stevef@bug.UUCP (Steven R Fordyce) writes...
>>>In article <1992Oct28.195121.9455@vexcel.com> dean@vexcel.com
>>>(Dean Alaska) writes:
>>>>Note that the party of Adolf Hitler was a fascist party that had the
>>>>word "socialist" in its name. 
>>> 
>>>And correctly so.  Nazism was a form of socialism.  Most or at least many
>>>of the important industries were nationalized under the Nazis.
>>>-- 
>>>orstcs!opac!bug!stevef          I am the NRA              Steven R. Fordyce
>>>uunet!sequent!ether!stevef         . . .  	        Deer are for Dinner
>>
>>This is quite wrong; if Steven Fordyce wants to attack socialism then he
>>should do so directly without resorting to utterly disreputable smear tactics.
>
>	No, it's correct. Note- saying Nazism is a form of socialism is not
>the same thing as saying that all socialism is associated with Nazism. So
>this is not just a smear.
>
>>errors -- just sloppy copy-editing.) One of the first things Hitler did upon
>>coming to power was to smash the German trade unions.  If Steven Fordyce thinks
>>this represents socialism, then perhaps he would also accept the definition of
>>a guillotine as a headache cure. 
>
>	There is not jone form of socialism to be represented. There are
>many and they aren't all friendly to one another.
>
>>Ron Balden
>
>William Everett

Fascism is not a form of socialism.  Most enterprise in Nazi Germany was
privately owned.  The fact that socialism can take an authoritarian form
does not mean it is fascist.  Socialism usually implies some form of
collectivism where the needs (or at least supposed needs) of the whole
override the needs of the few.  In fascism, the needs of the _state_,
as defined by its leader override the needs of any citizen.
-- 

		dingo in boulder	(dean@vexcel.com)
Newsgroups: alt.activism.d
From: pierce@lanai.cs.ucla.edu (Brad Pierce)
Subject: Re: Aging population
Organization: UCLA, Computer Science Department
Distribution: usa
Date: Fri, 20 Nov 92 06:06:18 GMT

In article <4248@novavax.UUCP> vest@novavax.UUCP (Steven Vest) writes:

    "I'm curious as to why you would believe that a country that
     is already reeling under a massive influx of illegal aliens would
     want to increase the quota of legal aliens."

I am unconvinced of your claim that undocumented workers are
responsible for the USA's "reel". I think you may be employing
undocumented straw men.

-- Brad Pierce --
From: weverett@jarthur.claremont.edu (William M. Everett)
Newsgroups: alt.activism.d
Subject: Re: LaRouche is a fucking Nazi!
Date: 17 Nov 92 04:07:57 GMT
Organization: Harvey Mudd College, Claremont, CA 91711

In article <16NOV199217372255@reg.triumf.ca> orwell@reg.triumf.ca (BALDEN, RON) writes:
>weverett@jarthur.claremont.edu (William M. Everett), commenting on my
>rebuke to Steven Fordyce [my emphasis]:
>[Previous Fordyce comment and my rebuke omitted]:
>>	No, it's correct. Note- saying Nazism is a form of socialism is not
>>the same thing as saying that all socialism is associated with Nazism. **So
>>this is not just a smear.**
>> 
>
>To me, this statement indicates that
>
>a)  William Everett is being deeply disingenuous.
>
>or
>
>b)  He is a fool.
>
>I do him the compliment of assuming a).  Presumably, if he thinks
>"this is not just a smear" then he also saw nothing wrong with

>
>Ron Balden
	No need to get upset. I don't know what the original post was. By 
'not just a smear' I was referring to the fact that calling nazism a form of
socialism does not have to be derogatory towards socialism

	*********************************************************
	*  William Everett		Tan, Rested, and ready  *
	*  Harvey Mudd College		     NIXON in '96       *
	*                                                       *   
	*  These opinions are mine- you can't have them         *   
	*********************************************************
From: dean@vexcel.com (Dean Alaska)
Newsgroups: alt.activism.d
Subject: Re: LaRouche is a fucking Nazi!
Date: 17 Nov 92 17:18:43 GMT
Organization: VEXCEL Corporation, Boulder CO

In article <1992Nov17.041729.15977@muddcs.claremont.edu> weverett@jarthur.claremont.edu (William M. Everett) writes:
>In article <1992Nov16.211217.3192@vexcel.com> dean@vexcel.com (Dean Alaska) writes:
>
>>
>>Fascism is not a form of socialism. 
>	Fascism is fairly vaguely defined. So this can't really made as a
>definite statement.
>
In the field of political science, they have more specific definitions.
Based on those definitions, my statement is true.  In reality, there is
no pure example of fascism, socialism or capitalism.  In political
science, fascism = statism (dominance of the government over the
individual).  Both socialism and capitalism try very different
methods to avoid this but all actual examples have some statism in
them.  The rhetoric of socialism is appealing to the masses so
outright fascists will generally use some of it to gain popularity.

>	*  William Everett		Tan, Rested, and ready  *
>	*  Harvey Mudd College		     NIXON in '96       *
>	*                                                       *   
>	*  These opinions are mine- you can't have them         *   
>	*********************************************************


-- 

		dingo in boulder	(dean@vexcel.com)
From: cmort@NCoast.ORG (Christopher Morton)
Subject: Re: AF/ATS: LA rioter sentenced to 19 years!!!
Reply-To: cmort@ncoast.org (Christopher Morton)
Organization: North Coast Public Access *NIX, Cleveland, OH
Date: Mon, 16 Nov 1992 22:34:39 GMT
Followup-To: alt.activism

As quoted from <69339@cup.portal.com> by L-Bueno@cup.portal.com (Louis Alberto Bueno):

> 	Oh, a BIG BTW: Does anyone know if the 7-11 in question was a
> 24-hour operation, and full of people at the time, or whether it was
> closed and not manned at the time? (I wonder why everyone's assumed it
> had to have people inside? :-) )
>  
It doesn't matter.  Are you saying that he ENTERED the 7-11 to ENSURE that it
was NOT occupied?  If you believe THAT one, I have this story about how the
NAAWP is a civil rights organization....



-- 
------------------------------------------------------------------  

"Well whose opinions did you THINK these were...?" 
------------------------------------------------------------------
From: demon@desire.wright.edu (Stupendous Man)
Newsgroups: alt.activism
Subject: Re: "Wehrmacht Weizaecker"
Date: 16 Nov 92 19:52:28 GMT
Organization: Demonic Possesions, Inc.

In article <1992Nov16.031416.15785@uvm.edu>, coan@griffin (Brian M Coan) writes:
> In response to someone's question, the phrase "Wehrmacht Weizaecker"
> comes from the fact that Germany's president was once the head of
> the Wehrmacht.

	And?  The German army was distinctly separate from the SS
units/organization.  Serving in the army was certainly not damning, unless you
can prove that as a soldier he participated in atrocities.

> OK, kids, can you say "the continuity of national-socialism in the
> present-day German capitalist state"?? I knew you could.

	And Eisenhower being president is equal to a military dictatorship?  I
don't think so.

Brett
===============================================================================
80s: 18 million new jobs, deficits down (%GNP), tax rates down, tax revenues up
GNP up, inflation down, unemployment down, interest rates down, cold war won
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Newsgroups: alt.locksmithing
From: J024330@LMSC5.IS.LMSC.LOCKHEED.COM
Subject: Re: Discouragement from Locksmiths
Organization: Lockheed Missiles & Space Company, Inc.
Date: Thu, 19 Nov 92 19:42:33 GMT

yabi@ellis.uchicago.edu (Scott Thomas Yabiku) writes in

----------------Previous E-Mail Deleted--------------------------
>(Steve, if you could please forward this to Chris W.)
>Chris W.,
>  Don't you be telling me what I can and cannot do.  I've often read that
>locksmiths discourage people from learning to pick locks.  They want to
>keep their trade skills secret, so they can charge people crazy amounts
>of money, like $50, to open a lock.  That's wrong.  I find locksmithing to
>be very interesting, and I freely help others learn what I know.

I owned a locksmith shop for 13 years and I wouldn't dare disclose to
the general public how to compromise a random lock.  I was in business
to provide physical security, lock picking was only secondary and only
made up about 7% of our income.  If word got out that I was telling any
Tom, Dick or Harriet (equal opportunity here boys) how to pick locks
how long do you think I'd be in business.  Who'd want to deal with me.
  On the other hand, when I needed an apprentice, I hired 'em (with
full knowledge I was hiring my future competitor) and trained 'em. So
I guess I don't fit the mould you illustrate above, as don't other
professional type locksmiths.  So, teaching you to pick locks so you
won't pay me a $50 picking fee is really irrevelant.  I wouldn't teach
you how to pick a lock because I owe a certain feduciary responsibility
to my customers to provide a certain degree of security.  Imagine,
here I am, I just got done securing your home, then I give the keys to
a total stranger.  This is what your claim equates to.

>  I'm not a criminal.  I've never used my locksmithing skills to steal
>anything.  Possession of picks is a crime?  Big deal.  I, as do many
>people, feel that my government has no right to tell me what I can't own
>for my personal use (ie, handguns, RSA encryption, lockpicks...).
>[end]
>Has anyone else ever been told by a locksmith to "butt out" of his
>profession?  I'd be interested to hear about it.

In most states, possession alone does not constitute a crime.  Use of
'burglar' tools to gain unauthorized entry to someone elses property
does.  Has anyone tried to exclude me from practicing locksmithing? Nope.

If you really want to learn about some of this stuff, write Paladin Press
in Colorado.  They have a book on lock picking.  Get a subscription to
Locksmith Ledger, join the Associated Locksmiths Association and attend
the local meetings.  Find a locksmithing school in your local area, or
try one of the correspondence courses.  The absolute best advise I can
give you is to find a locksmith that will hire you as an apprentice (they
do, no matter what anyone has told you).  But walk into a locksmith shop
and ask how to pick locks?  I applaud any locksmith that shows you the
door.

>-------------------------------------------------------------------------
>Have a nice day!  :)

Thank you.
From: psr@acsu.buffalo.edu (Lord Strider)
Newsgroups: alt.locksmithing
Subject: my start
Summary: I getting started as a locksmith
Date: 20 Nov 92 23:42:50 GMT
Organization: UB

Well, I've been reading this group for a while so I'll have some things to
say on recent discussions.
I've decided to start learning the trade.  I'll probably post things from my
experience and little things of interest from time to time.
I gotta say, I though I would find more resistance in getting started.  I
called one place to ask how to get started and got good information.  He said
the best way is to become an apprentice.  Correspondence courses are also good.
So I got me a copy of Popular Science, and mailed away to the advertised lock-
schools for their information packets.  Then I called numbers out of the
phone book to look for a job.  I got an owner on the phone and he was very
friendly.  Even with no work experience, he wants me to come in to talk about
it.  I didn't sense any reservations about "trade secrets" or anything like
that.  So tomorrow I'll stop in and see what happens.
Main points here is that locksmiths aren't stuck up snobs.  They have a 
responsibility to be responsible, thats all.  Second point is, the overwhelming
opinion on how to become a locksmith is experience.


-- 
Strider                     | SUNY @ Buffalo | psr@acsu.buffalo.edu
Lord Mayor, The Hill People | (716) 636 4862 | V127MHSK@ubvms.bitnet

"Son, I am able," she said, "though you scare me."  "Watch," said I, "beloved."
Newsgroups: alt.locksmithing
From: billn@hpcvaac.cv.hp.com (bill nelson)
Subject: Re: Discouragement from Locksmiths
Organization: Hewlett-Packard Company, Corvallis, Oregon USA
Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1992 20:12:42 GMT

rboudrie@chpc.org (Rob Boudrie) writes:
: >Most places have laws against "possession of burglar tools" or something
: >similar.  I know somebody who was charged with this because of lock picks
: >in his possession.  It could also apply to a screwdriver under the right
: >circumstances.
: 
: The laws I've read base the "posession of burgular tools" on the 
: presence of criminal INTENT.  Unless you have some sort of proof
: that you have a legit reason to have them, you may find that you
: will have to pay an attorney to prove a lack of criminal intent.

Oh, really? Since when does a person have to prove their innocence?
I thought that the authorities had to prove guilt - that is, with the
exception of drug related forfeiture cases.

: If no special business license for locksmiths is required in you area,
: you can always have some business cards printed up.

Even if a special license is required to be a locksmith, that does not
mean that  you need one before you have a legitimate purpose for carrying
the picks.

Bill
Newsgroups: alt.locksmithing
From: dplumb@cix.compulink.co.uk (Dave Plumb)
Subject: Trick for auto entry in the news.       
Cc: dplumb@cix.compulink.co.uk
Reply-To: dplumb@cix.compulink.co.uk
Date: Sun, 22 Nov 1992 14:52:00 +0000

> The claim was that one could take a tennis ball, cut a 
> hole about the size of a quarter in it.  Place the hole 
I heard this story a few years ago. Apparently some of the higher class cars 
use pneumatic locks, or at least the "locked" indicator that springs up above 
the door line is pneumatic. By cutting a tennis ball in half and putting it 
over the lock, enough pressure can be exerted to unlock the door. 
 
Don't know if it works, though, but it'll certainly only be on central 
locking cars, ISTR it was BMW's at the time. 
 
David 
Newsgroups: alt.locksmithing,rec.audio.car
From: galway@chtm.eece.unm.edu (Denis McKeon)
Subject: Re: interest in car alarm group?
Date: Sun, 15 Nov 92 16:33:15 GMT
Organization: Connemara - Computing for People
Followup-To: news.groups
X-Mailer: Mail User's Shell (7.0.1 12/13/89)
Status: OR

I've set the follow-up line to news.groups - those who feel that a new
group is needed and want to manage the discussion/voting/creation
process should consider doing a formal CFD in news.groups.  
Please note that this post is NOT a formal CFD.

My personal opinion (in response to the messages cross-posted in
alt.locksmithing and rec.audio.car) is that 
rec.autos.security 
would be a good group name and location, covering both alarms and
passive devices (Club, etc.) (and car-jacking, for that matter).  I
recently bought a car alarm and was disappointed to find no single group
that covered such discussion, and no FAQ that included the topic.  

If there is not enough support for a group then perhaps choosing an
existing group (rec.autos) and asking posters to put the string:
'alarm'  in the subject line would work.  Mention of that method
in any FAQs in rec.auto.*, alt.locksmithing, rec.audio,car, and
sci.electronics would provide enough pointers for the diligent
Usenet user to find the topic.

Finally, please consider moving the new group discussion (and related
meta-discussions) out of alt.locksmithing and rec.audio.car and
over to news.groups.

--
Denis McKeon
galway@chtm.eece.unm.edu

QED: Quit and Eat Dinner
From: dunster@sdsu.edu (mark dunster)
Newsgroups: alt.locksmithing
Subject: Re: Trick for auto entry in the news.
Date: 20 Nov 1992 22:22:09 GMT
Organization: sdsu
Distribution: world
NNTP-Posting-Host: mathfp11.sdsu.edu

In article <41341@sdcc12.ucsd.edu>, mark@kraken.ucsd.edu 
(Mark Anderson) writes:
> 
> A local news story said that thiefs had been exploiting
> a new trick to unlock cars.
> 
> The claim was that one could take a tennis ball, cut a 
> hole about the size of a quarter in it.  Place the hole
> flush with the door over the keyway.  Then give the ball
> a sharp blow, while at the same time pulling on the door
> handle.  Up pops the lock. Sort of a pneumatic pick gun.  


SOUNDS GREAT!!!! So the *next* eight bastards who break into my VW
Jetta, looking in vain for my pull-out stereo, won't damage my door.

I think I'll leave a tennis ball on my antenna for their
convenience. (No, I'll still lock my door: I don't want to
encourage *everybody* to come in to my car. The regular
son-of-a-bitch slimy-turd thieves are enough.)

Newsgroups: alt.locksmithing
From: peter@nikow.demon.co.uk ("Peter A. Forkes")
Distribution: world
Subject: Re: Lockpick guidess
X-Mailer: cppnews $Revision: 1.14 $
Organization: Nikow
Date: Mon, 23 Nov 1992 15:49:55 +0000

> 
> Can anyone here please email me the FAQ and any picking guides (I've already
> seen informatik-5..)
> 
Roy,

Paladin Press and LoomPanics are 'commercial' publishers who sell books
on lock picking.  Their addresses are:

  Paladin Press			       Loom Panics Unlimited
  P.O.Box 1307			       P.O.Box 1197
  Boulder, CO 80306		       Port Townsend, WA 98368
  tel. 303 443 7250
  fax  303 442 8741

Peter

 +------------------------------------+-------------------------------------+
 | Peter A. Forkes                    | Compuserve: 71121,711               |
 | 32 Russell Road                    | Compulink : pforkes                 |
 | London      W14 8HU                | MCI mail  : pforkes                 |
 | Tel. (44) 71 602 0797              | Internet  : peter@nikow.demon.co.uk |
 +------------------------------------+-------------------------------------+
Newsgroups: alt.locksmithing
From: dbent@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (Darrell A Bent)
Subject: Please stop
Organization: The Ohio State University
Distribution: usa
Date: Sat, 21 Nov 1992 23:36:25 GMT


     I've tried to hold in my feelings, but I just can't take it any more.  My 
father was killed by a flying lock!  Have you no shame?  Locks, locks, that's 
all I hear from you monsters!  Just go away!
Xref: sparky alt.locksmithing:1999 rec.audio.car:4859
From: wix@eskimo.com (Dennis Wicks)
Newsgroups: alt.locksmithing,rec.audio.car
Subject: Re: interest in car alarm group?
Date: 15 Nov 92 20:50:18 GMT
Organization: >>> Eskimo North (206)-FOR-EVER <<<

In article <1992Nov13.200248.15279@newshub.sdsu.edu> dunster@sdsu.edu (mark dunster) writes:
>
>You also mentioned the Lo-Jack etc.  Tell me more! I suggest we start a 
>newsgroup:
>
>                    rec.autos.security
>
>Any opinions?
>
That sounds like the best idea so far.  A little bit broader,
allowing for options other than just alarms.

But then, no one is likely to consider stealing my 11YO Chevette
with 100,000+ miles on it ! :-)
Newsgroups: alt.locksmithing