From: Robert.Evans@cm.cf.ac.uk (Robert Evans)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.celtic,soc.culture.british
Subject: Re: The story of the Scottish flag
Date: 17 Dec 92 18:26:25 GMT
Organization: University of Wales College of Cardiff, Cardiff, WALES, UK.

In article <1992Dec14.163027.3496@newstand.syr.edu>, crdunlea@rodan.acs.syr.edu (Christopher R. Dunlea) writes:
|> In article <1992Dec12.033652.688@fwi.uva.nl> hm@fwi.uva.nl (Hans Mulder) writes:
|> >In <JIM.92Dec11122231@hunter.cs.strath.ac.uk> jim@cs.strath.ac.uk (Jim Reid) writes:
|> >>As for Queen Elizabeth, she is known as Elizabeth the Second. This is
|> >>misleading as the nation she rules has not had a Queen Elizabeth
|> >>before. Some Scots find this offensive, since Scotland has never
|> >>had a Queen called Elizabeth until now, although England had one
|> >>during the 17th(?) century. 
|> >
|> >Lots of countries have queens known Elizabeth the Second:
|> >Antigua & Barbuda, Australia, Bahamas, Barbados, Belize, Canada,
|> >England, Grenada, Guernsey, Jamaica, Jersey, Man, Mauritius, New Zealand,
|> >Papua New Guinea, Scotland, Solomon Islands, St. Kitts & Nevis,
|> >St. Lucia, St. Vincent & the Grenadines, Trinidad & Tobago, Tuvalu.
|> >
|> >How many of these have had queens called Elizabeth before?
|> >
|> Actually, considering when they were claimed by England, virtually
|> all these countries, with the exception of the far Eastern/Pacific
|> dominions, had an Elizabeth I, including Canada and everything in the
|> Western hemisphere...except Jamaica and Belize, I believe.
|> 
|> Chris the Smartass Imperial Historian
|> `

What do you mean "claimed by England"?  England isn't a state and hasn't
been since 1707.  How can it claim overseas territory?  It doesn't have a
government or any national body that could make such a claim on its behalf.
Elizabeth of England (aka Elizabeth I) was Queen in the 16th Century before
most of those territories were "discovered".

Elizabeth II is the second reigning Elizabeth of the dynasty decended from William
of Normandy (William I of England).  The fact that they reigned over different
Kingdoms is irrelevant.  The new Queen Elizabeth chose to be known as Elizabeth II
to differentiate her from her dynastic predecessor, and be be called that in all her
Kingdoms.

The Stuarts from 1603 to 1707 were Kings or Queens of England and of Scotland
although they were sometimes informally called Kings/Queens of Gt Britain.  They
used different numbers where appropriate: eg. James I/VI and James II/VII but
Charles I/I and Charles II/II.   The Kings or Queens of Great Britain (from 1707) or
the United Kingdom (from 1801) have invariably chosen to use the Norman dynastic
number.   However, it's their choice on succeeding to the throne.  Should Prince
Charles succeed to the throne, he can call himself whatever he likes.  He doesn't
have to use "Charles" or "III".   Kings are as entitled as anybody else in the UK
to change their names if they so desire.

--
  Robert Evans, Department of Computing Mathematics,
  University of Wales College of Cardiff, Wales, UK.  +44 (0)222 874000 x 5518
  Robert.Evans@cm.cf.ac.uk                      (FAX) +44 (0)222 666182
Newsgroups: soc.culture.celtic,soc.culture.british,soc.culture.usa