From: ck@cs.tulane.edu (Cris Koutsougeras)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.yugoslavia,soc.culture.greek
Subject: Re: Adelaide Newspaper abused by 'Ellinika Nea'
Date: 15 Sep 92 06:30:22 GMT
Organization: Computer Science Dept., Tulane Univ., New Orleans, LA
Nntp-Posting-Host-[nntpd-3797]: isis

In article <9225823.8840@mulga.cs.mu.OZ.AU> sachz@montebello.ecom.unimelb.EDU.AU (SAS) writes:

>   As Australian-Macedonians we express our concerns about an
>article placed in the Greek newspaper, "Ellinika Nea". Not only
>have the Greeks slandered the Macedonians in the past year and
>nicknamed them "Skopjens", (Skopje is the capital of the Republic
>of Macedonia), but they now go on to slander and abuse the Sunday
>mail, the journalists involved, and the Adelaide University. We
>find this attitude repulsive and totally unacceptable.

Oh you find the protest to the publishing of the bull which Skopijan's
feed those newspapers unacceptable... Well, scuse meee!!!

>   We are aware of the "so called" decision of the E.C. about
>Macedonia, but as far as we know, these decisions are not final.

You better get your information straight. EC decided that NO country
having the word "Macedonia" in its name will be recognized.

>to the name Macedonia, and in the meantime, has no cause to
>slander and abuse any nation or nationality.

While Skopijans should be free to raise as many claims as they damn
well please, right?  You people feel that "the issue has not been
settled in final" and so it's ok for you to go on assuming the name
Macedonia and carrying out propaganda while Greece should not "bug"
you.  How convenient!!! And besides what do you mean by "meantime"?
Meantime until when or until what?

>which appeared as if this was Macedonia." 'Ellinika Nea' then uses
>the phrase, "palouki pou sas kriazeten", which literally means "a
>pole up your anus".

That's not right. You better keep what you think for yourself instead
of conveniently translating in "what it literally means". It says "a
pole is what is needed" and it comes from the days when people used
donkeys which they would either tie on poles or they would be looking
for them around.  In fact there is another similar expression which
means "better tie your donkey or look for it".  There is no "anus"
word in the expression you are referencing nor any suggestion to that
effect.  Unless the "pole" brings up any "anus" ideas to your mind
in which case it is your own problem and frankly we are hardly
interested about where you want your poles.

>   They then go on to say :- "Wake up you no-hopers to what is
>happening around you. Are you a newspaper, or are you made to
>work for the 'Skopjens'. It's okay that you haven't read other
>papers to know what's going on around the world. Haven't you
>learnt that it is not accepted for 'Skopjens' to use the name
>Macedonia? What were you doing when the European Community and
>Australia did not recognise that name? Planting broad beans? If
>we trust you to teach our children geography, then our children
>are the losers. As if it wasn't enough on 9/8/92, but on
>16/8/92, you again included Macedonia on the world map, but this
>time showed it bigger than the week before."

So you have a problem eh?  Let me translate it for you... literally:
A newspaper is supposed to report. Right?  EC does NOT recognize
Skopije as Macedonia.  What did that newspaper do?  Did it obviously
ignore the situation as it stands and went on to produce a map with
the name Macedonia contrary to the EC and the Australian goverment's
official stand? If so what is your problem with the above statement?
Where is the responsibility of that newspaper (yours) as a reporting
media?  Or is that newspaper supposed to dictate politics?  And where
did it get its information from and how is it possible to have had it
cross-checked (if they did they would have accounted for the official
stand).  And finally, how often Skopijan students including yourself
visit its offices?  Don't tell me that you volunteer all this bulk of
information to the net but you do not volunteer it to them.  And it
is interesting also to ask you, since apparently you can't read Greek,
where the hell did you get your information about what the Greek
newspaper says?  Or should we assume that there is some organized
effort to flood every media possible with propaganda matterial ?

>other way. On one hand you show a piece of Macedonia, and
>underneath say it's not recognised by the E.C. and Australia. So
>who is it recognised by - Sydney, Melbourne and Adelaide
>University? If the responsible people at Adelaide University
>believe in this matter, and they have given rights to the

Translation (literally):  If Skopije is not recognized as Macedonia,
that is, if the AUstralian goverment dismisses the argument presented
by the Skopijans as invalid and inapropriate, then by what means is
the newspaper submitting to the position of the Skopijans?  How does the
newspaper consider that it is ok to change its role from a public
informer to a virtual politician ?

>   As can be seen, not only has "Ellinika Nea" insulted members
>of the Macedonian community, but have also insulted the
>Australian teaching institutions, our teachers, scholars and
>political leaders.

woooow... hold your horses (or should I say your donkeys?).  You put
everything very conveniently in the same basket huh? Politicians,
institutions, teachers, scholars... phiuuuu....
Maybe what should have happened is that the Greek goverment should
have officially protested to the University for the fact that your
newspaper is deviating from its mission as a responsible informer, and
instead it plays politician contrary to the official Australian stand
without taking apropriate causion to clarify that its views do not
represent the views of the University.  Which of course is what you
people would like to achieve, that is, to make it appear that the
University and not the writer of that newspaper supports the Skopians
stand.  Thus virtually, the Greek goverment should complain to the
University that its newspaper engages in propaganda which is unfounded
by either the international stand or the Australian official stand,
and it does so in (virtually) the name of the University as a whole.
Do you think that some people would be in trouble then or not so ?

>   How far will the Greeks go in their lies? We are sure that the
>sights of ethnic cleansing in Bosnia-Herzegovina are disturbing
>to us all, but what about the cleansing of Macedonians over the
>past sixty odd years by Greek, Bulgarian and Serbian authorities
>in Macedonia.

YOU are going too far with lies mr.  There is a limit to how many lies
can possibly be tolerated, you know.

>   We are proud to be living in a country that allows us to
>express our freedom of speech, culture and identity, but we feel

Oh sure!!!  The happening with the Albanians in Skopije territory is
too recent for you to ignore and talk about freedom. Let alone the
elections and the referendum...

>far. We speak Macedonia and also Greek as a consequence of the
>Greek totalitarian regime of Aegean Macedonia, and have tried to
>give you the best translation.

Mmmmm-ha-ha-ha...

>   I myself am a University student of Adelaide University
>studying a Bachelor of Science degree, and am writing this letter

(No resumes this time?!?!?!)

>on behalf of my family, and other relatives and friends. I wish
>to express my concern to you about such articles and hope that
>they will be acknowledged as offensive, and acted upon
>accordingly.

And I wish to express my concerns about articles such as yours and I
protest the lies to the effect of "cleansing of Macedonians" in
Greece, and I protest the use of the name "Macedonia" for Skopije
while such claims are internationally dismissed as unfounded and
downright improper.

To say it literally:  You are Skopijans until you find another name,
and you will never be "Macedonians" since "Macedonian" means Greek and
part of Greek historic herritage.

-ck
Xref: sparky soc.culture.yugoslavia:8547 rec.travel:12975 rec.misc:218