HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: aaldoubo@copper.denver.colorado.edu (Shaqeeqa)
Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast
Subject: Re: Jihad is self-defence
Date: 31 Dec 92 09:14:38 GMT
Organization: University of Colorado at Denver

*****************************************************
*                         *                  __     *
* Brad "Ali" Hernlem      *                 / /     *
*                         *                / /      *
*                         *               / / ____  *
*                         *              / / / __/  *
* hernlem@chess.ncsu.EDU  *    __     __/ /_/ /_    *
*                         *   / /____/ ________/    *
*                         *  /________/             *
				*   *
>*****************************************************

:-)  :'D

Anisa - make one for me! :)

	Hi Jake!!

Xref: sparky talk.politics.mideast:24523 soc.rights.human:4712
From: marwang@staccato.rutgers.edu (Marwan Gharaybeh)
Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast,soc.rights.human
Subject: Re: Israeli Expulsion of 418 Palestinians
Date: 2 Jan 93 17:57:30 GMT
Followup-To: talk.politics.mideast
Organization: Rutgers Univ., New Brunswick, N.J.

astein@nysernet.org (Alan Stein) writes:

>proberts@informix.com (Paul Roberts) writes:

>>>On the other hand, in the case of the Hamas terrorists, we're not
>>>talking about innocents.

>>Funny, I don't recall any trials or convictions. How do you know 
>>who is innocent and who isn't?

>If you've seen any of the demonstrations on TV, you wouldn't ask that.

Alan ... You have demonstrated your stupidity right infront of thousands
of readers on this net ... Putting on a beard does not make you a 
"fundamentalist" nor a "moslem" nor a "terrorist" ... By the way do you
have a beard  ... I had one during the finals when I did not have time
to shave but thank god I did not take these finals in the west bank.

Which brings us to another questions ... Are those hasidi jews 
fundamentalist terrorist moslems?

--Marwan
From: sera@zuma.UUCP (Serdar Argic)
Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast,talk.politics.soviet,soc.culture.greek,soc.culture.europe,soc.culture.soviet
Followup-To: soc.culture.turkish
Subject: So "Harkins" is alive and confused.
Date: Mon, 28 Dec 92 22:51:24 EST
Reply-To: sera@zuma.UUCP (Serdar Argic)
Distribution: world

In article <1ho6uaINNfj8@network.ucsd.edu> dharkins@papillon.ucsd.edu (Dan Harkins) writes:

>Ouch! Battle of the cliches, o.k., but "... more this clown."????
>Just what is that supposed to mean? 
 
Let us examine it - shall we?

Source: Documents: Volume I (1919).
        "Document No: 83," Archive No: 1/2, Cabin No: 113, Drawer 
        No: 3, File No: 527, Section No: 718(2056), Contents No: 10.
        (To the Ottoman Army Acting Supreme Command - Eastern Armies
        Group Commander Halil)

"In a cable I received from the Caucasian Islamic Army Command it is
 stated that in recent days Armenians have murdered over 100 Moslems
 in Karabag and blocked the way for 300,000 Moslems in the region,
 murdering women and children of Moslems who want to return thus
 necessitating a joint operation from Azerbaidjan to the Southwest
 and from Nahcivan Region to the Northeast for the protection of the
 Moslem population.

 As the problem of the Armenia - Azerbaidjan boundary is not yet solved,
 it is certain that Armenians will annihilate the total Moslem 
 population of Karabag in order to claim the extension of their 
 boundaries."

Serdar Argic

                     'This war quickly developed into one of extermination. 
                      We closed the roads and mountain passes that might 
                      serve as ways of escape for the Tartars [Turks] and 
                      then proceeded in the work of extermination.'
                                                       (Ohanus Appressian)

Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast
From: astein@nysernet.org (Alan Stein)
Subject: Re: Deportation vs. Murder
Organization: NYSERNet, Inc.
Date: Thu, 24 Dec 1992 03:47:23 GMT

jle@lear.bos.locus.com (John Elghani) writes:

>OK thank for your response.  But, how do you suggest Tel Aviv then
>should be liberated from the syrians if the syrians are
>not interested in peace?

That's an invalid analogy to the current situation for several
reasons, perhaps the most important being that the Israelis are
strongly interested in peace.  Indeed, they just recently made
proposals to the Palestinian Arabs that would have, for all practical
purposes on a day-to-day basis, meant an end to the "occupation" by
giving the Palestinian Arabs virtually total control over the
day-to-day affairs of their lives.  (The response was a summary
rejection, threats to end the peace talks because of a lack of
progress, and the kidnap and murder of officer Toledano.)

Let us stop forgetting that Israel contols the territories only
because it beat off an attack by Jordan, and then Jordan refused to
even negotiate with Israel despite Israel's interest in giving up
virtually all the territories in return for peace.

>>    
>>    As stated in HAMAS pamphlet no. 65, distributed in October of 
>>    1990, 
>>    
>>           "Every Jewish settler is an occupier, 
>>            and it is our obligation to kill him."
>>

Can anyone, in his or her wildest dreams, conceive of even the most
right-wing Israeli making a similar statement about Arabs?  It's
absurd to even consider the question.
-- 
Alan H. Stein   -----  AJIN   -----  astein@israel.nysernet.org
Xref: sparky talk.politics.mideast:24531 talk.politics.soviet:10148 soc.culture.greek:11986 soc.culture.europe:10947 soc.history:10482 soc.culture.soviet:11737
From: sera@zuma.UUCP (Serdar Argic)
Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast,talk.politics.soviet,soc.culture.greek,soc.culture.europe,soc.history,soc.culture.soviet
Followup-To: soc.culture.turkish
Subject: 'Greek Atrocities in the Vilayet of Smyrna (May to July 1919)'.
Date: Sat, 02 Jan 93 14:15:17 EST
Reply-To: sera@zuma.UUCP (Serdar Argic)
Distribution: world

In article <9212311254.AA23666@itm.Transylvania.Ro> karakoles@itm.Transylvania.Ro (Demetrios Karakoles) writes:

>   ... ERXOMAI   !!!

Don't be so vague. 'Greek Atrocities in the Vilayet of Smyrna (May to July 
1919), Inedited Documents and Evidence of English and French Officers,' 
Published by The Permanent Bureau of the Turkish Congress at Lausanne, 
Lausanne, Imprimerie Petter, Giesser & Held, Caroline, 5 (1919).

  pages 40-41:

  << VIOLATED MOSQUES

  All the mosques and religious institutions of Manissa, numbering
  about 150, have been violated by the Greek army, their doors were
  forced in and their floors torn up, their carpets stolen or soiled,
  their windows broken and their inside walls defaced. The worst
  damaged mosques of the town are the following:

    Servili mesdjid
    Tchatal djami
    Kenzi djami
    Mouradie
    Ak mesdjid
    Ayvaz Pacha djami
    The convents Kenzi, and Kabak Hadje
    Gune Djami
    Dilchikar
    Dere mesdjid
    Nifli Zade
    Hodjdja-djlar
    The school of Theology Sinan and the cemetery Thchatal Kabristan,
    are violated, defiled and deteriorated.>>

  page 53:

  << VILLAGES DESTROYED

   The following villages of Bergamo, one of the richest and most
   prosperous regions in the world, are completely burned and
   destroyed by the Greek hordes:

         Kirikly
         Kalarga
         Djame-Keuy
         Eminly
         Mouhadjir
         Baba-Keuy
         Hamzaly
         Korkally
         Eyry-Keuy
         Yenidje
         Kizil-Tchoukour
         Kodja-Oba
         Merkez-Kozak
         Aladjalar
         Achaghi-Kiriklar
         Rechadiye
         Tepeleni
         Chakran
         Eyri-Gueul
         Boz-Keuy
         Djoumali
         Tchenguelly. >>

Serdar Argic

                     'This war quickly developed into one of extermination. 
                      We closed the roads and mountain passes that might 
                      serve as ways of escape for the Tartars [Turks] and 
                      then proceeded in the work of extermination.'
                                                       (Ohanus Appressian)

Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast
From: jake@bony1.bony.com (Jake Livni)
Subject: Re: Israeli soldiers kill Palestinian boy
Organization: The Department of Redundancy Department
Date: Thu, 24 Dec 92 15:53:03 GMT

In article <1992Dec24.064205.0158196@locus.com> jle@lear.bos.locus.com (John Elghani) writes:

>If the arabic dicators  kill palestinians, they're mainly being
>obedient to the israeli orders: Kill the palestinin militants,
>or we'll bomb your water dam, power source, .etc..

You're a certifiable loon.

>Besides, Israel's existence is what caused the arabic countries to
>kill palestinians.  

So by destroying Israel, the PLO can stop the Arab states from killing
Palestineans.  Nice logic.

>If israel did not come from Germany to rob

Keep it coming, John.  You're hilarious.

>Prior to the theft-existence of israel, Palestine had the most
prolofic economy in the region

I have aerial photos of Tel-Aviv/Yafo from early this century showing
what a sandy wasteland it was.  Much of the country was barren before
the Jews arrived in larger numbers in the middle of the century. 

If the Palestineans had such a great economy, then why can't they do
something besides kill for a living in Gaza?  Oh, it must be the
Israelis fault - I forgot.

>I am not attacking Jews, on the contrary,
>Palestine is the land of Jews, Muslims, and Christians.

Sure, it is.  Just ask Hamas.

-- 
Jake Livni  jake@bony1.bony.com              10 years from now, George Bush will
American-Occupied New York                   have replaced Jimmy Carter as the
My opinions only - employer has no opinions. standard of a failed President.
Xref: sparky talk.politics.mideast:24472 soc.culture.arabic:6128
From: eggertj@moses.atc.ll.mit.edu (Jim Eggert x6127 g41)
Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast,soc.culture.arabic
Subject: Re: Deportee Mistaken Identity
Date: 31 Dec 92 23:09:04 GMT
	<C01Mnv.6CE@ns1.nodak.edu> <1992Dec31.200836.18855@nysernet.org>
Reply-To: eggertj@atc.ll.mit.edu
Organization: MIT Lincoln Lab - Group 41

In article <1992Dec31.200836.18855@nysernet.org> astein@nysernet.org (Alan Stein) writes:
>   It appears that most of the mistakes discovered so far involve
>   terrorists who are already being prosecuted for their crimes.  The
>   mistakes did not involve temporarily deporting innocent people, but
>   deporting the wrong terrorists.

Does that include the Palestinian reporter who works for, among
others, the New York Times?  He was on the deportee list by mistake,
but the mistake was caught just before deportation.  Is he a terrorist
too?

--
=Jim  eggertj@atc.ll.mit.edu (Jim Eggert)
From: ehrlich@bimacs.BITNET (Gideon Ehrlich)
Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast
Subject: Re: Jihad is self-defence
Date: 28 Dec 92 17:16:22 GMT
Organization: Math department, Bar-Ilan University, Ramat-Gan, ISRAEL

In article <1992Dec27.152024.19584@wisipc.weizmann.ac.il>
fedimit@wisipc.weizmann.ac.il (Dan Nabutovsky) writes:

>>     Jihad is self defense.
>
>War is peace.
>2*2 is sometimes 3 and sometimes 5.
>
>Dan

Sorry but I can't agree with any of you.
JIHAD means a war in order to enforce Islam on non-Islamic nations ("a
      holy war").
War is not a peace , and 2*2=4.

G.E.
Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast
From: perlman@qso.Colorado.EDU (Eric S. Perlman)
Subject: Re: Israeli soldiers kill Palestinian boy
Organization: University of Colorado, Boulder
Date: Tue, 22 Dec 1992 22:40:57 GMT

In article <1659@tdat.teradata.COM> jcg@tdat.teradata.com (Jonathan Gingerich) writes:
>In article <1992Dec16.045957.15659@colorado.edu> perlman@qso.Colorado.EDU (Eric S. Perlman) writes:
>>...
>>From the New Republic, November 23, 1992, p.28 (Article "The Palestinian
>>Meltdown" by Steven Emerson): "The first Palestinian to openly criticize
>>...
>>There are others, we can be sure.  Even Faisal Husseini admits that many
>>...
>>7, he wrote "We know that some of them were killed for reasons
>>unconnected to our struggle - family disputes, legal disputes, criminal
>>disputes, and the mafia."  Others have gone even further in their
>>...
>
>While these people are not collaborators, they are not killed because of
>political or religious intollerance either.  Rather they are killed because
>of criminal activity.  It is advantageous to both the killer and Israel to
>claim it is a "collaborator killing".

This is hogwash.  I suggest that Jonathan actually go and read the
article himself.  The article directly says that most of those killed
are *INNOCENT*, i.e. they are *NOT* collaborators, they are *NOT*
criminals.  

Jonathan has strip-quoted from the article in order to make those words
prove a point that the article actually addresses and proves false!
Very clever, Jonathan, but I see right through it.

>Obviously these crimes should be investigated and prosecuted.  This is the
>responsibilty of the authorities i.e. the occupiers.  This would seem to
>be a cost of the occupation rather than the intifada.
>
>BTW, the article seems to contradict Eric's claim that intifada leadership
>was not trying to clamp down on the killings.

Very obviously, Mr. Gingerich has not read the article himself.  The
article indeed says just that, in nearly so many words.  It hardly
contradicts that at all.  

Mr. Gingerich, I suggest you read an article next time, and not
strip-quote from it.

-- 
"How sad to see/A model of decorum and tranquillity/become like any other sport
A battleground for rival ideologies to slug it out with glee." -Tim Rice,"Chess"
     Eric S. Perlman 				 <perlman@qso.colorado.edu> 
  Center for Astrophysics and Space Astronomy, University of Colorado, Boulder
From: revans@euclid.ucsd.edu (Ron Evans)
Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast
Subject: Re: Occupation
Date: 21 Dec 92 09:48:51 GMT

<1992Dec20.232926.27970@netcom.com> zmbenhal@netcom.com (Zeyd M. Ben-Halim):

>	Syria, Iran, Iraq, and Turkey are occupying
>	Kurdistan.  The PKK (the Kurdish version of the PLO)
>	seeks to make Kurdistan an autonomous Kurdish state.
>	In the last eight years, over 3700 people have died
>	in clashes with the PKK in Turkey alone.

BZZZZT! WRONG! Kurdistan was not invaded by all of those states and occupied.
Residents in those areas are CITIZENS of the respective countries. They have
the same rights as the rest of the population ...


	Kurds have the same rights as the rest of the population?
	Let's consider something simple like the basic right to
	live in towns and villages!

	"Since the mid-1970's President Saddam Hussein's campaign
	to eradicate the Kurdish resistance movement has claimed
	4000 towns and villages and more than 100,000 lives."
	[Christopher Hitchens, Struggle of the Kurds, National
	Geographic, vol. 182, Aug. 1992, p.35]

	To underscore the oppression suffered by the Kurds in
	what they would call Iraqi-occupied Kurdistan, I quote 
	from page 46:

	"One by one the Iraqis dynamited or bombed or poisoned these
	communities in the name of repressing Kurdish insurgency and
	shifted their inhabitants into relocation centers.  You can
	still see those too, bleak and menacing blockhouses, hemmed
	in with wire, where people who had known no master were
	confined and supervised.  The Kurds have been hardened by
	the digging up of mass graves; estimates of the missing and
	dead range from 100,000 to 300,000.  A United Nations report
	concluded that the atrocities committed by Saddam's regime
	were 'so grave and...of such a massive nature that since
	the Second World War few parallels can be found.'  

	I ask again--do Kurds have the same rights as the rest of the
	population?

	Hitchens points out that the Kurds are one
	of the largest ethnic groups in the world without a state
	of its own.  Don't the Kurds deserve one? They never 
	accepted the rule of the Ottomans and have fought bitterly
	against the rule of Iran, Iraq, and Turkey.  The treaty of
	Sevres in 1920 after the fall of the Ottoman Empire provided
	for a Kurdish state, but thanks to Ataturk, this
	never came to pass.  Why now are the Kurds any less entitled
	to an autonomous state than the Palestinians?

-- 
Ron Evans (revans@math.ucsd.edu)
From: astein@nysernet.org (Alan Stein)
Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast
Subject: Re: Israeli Nazism? (Re: The Hadith about Muslims killing the J)
Date: 26 Dec 92 20:20:15 GMT
Organization: NYSERNet, Inc.

Anisa cleverly tries to associate Israeli defensive actions with
Nazism, in a message as offensive as it is inaccurate.

aaldoubo@copper.denver.colorado.edu (Shaqeeqa) writes:

>All this talk about Nazism as equitable/inequitable to Israel's
>ruthlessness towards Palestinians never mentioned the fact that
>Israel reciprocates in the same manner as the Nazis did during
>their own occupation of Europe.  And that is, for every soldier
>killed, handfuls of civilians were murdered.

Israel has deported terrorists;  the Nazis mass murdered innocent men,
women and children.

Of course, the Nazi big lie technique has been a favorite of those
trying to destroy Israel, so we shouldn't be surprised at Anisa's
tactics.
-- 
Alan H. Stein   -----  AJIN   -----  astein@israel.nysernet.org
From: bv652@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Ilan Uri Woll)
Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast
Subject: Coming in 5 days: THE DEATH OF MUTLU/ARGIC
Date: 2 Jan 1993 06:25:42 GMT
Organization: Case Western Reserve University, Cleveland, OH (USA)
Reply-To: bv652@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Ilan Uri Woll)
NNTP-Posting-Host: hela.ins.cwru.edu

----------------------------NEWSFLASH-----------------------------

ATHENS/GREECE (NUPI) Today, January 1, 1993, the Greek Supreme Court
                     announced the intent to press charges against
                     Hassan Mutlu (a.k.a Serda Argic) for the following
                     crimes: Netiquette violations, character assassination,
                     and excessive use of computer space.  Typically, this
                     crime is punishable by up to 5 years in jail, but an
                     appeal will be held tomorrow by the government of
                     Armenia and by the entire population of talk.politics.
                     mideast for the death penalty.  Further developments
                     as they occur.

COMING IN JUST 5 MEASLY DAYS: THE DEATH OF MUTLU/ARGIC.

WATCH FOR IT AT NET SITES EVERYWHERE.

           
-- 
---  !      ^    !\  !
 !   !     /-\   ! \ !
___  !__  /   \  !  \!  
                        Avoid cliches like the plague" George Shaw
Xref: sparky talk.politics.mideast:23939 talk.politics.soviet:9923 soc.culture.greek:11794 soc.culture.europe:10728 soc.history:10333 soc.culture.soviet:11448 soc.culture.iranian:11117
From: sera@zuma.UUCP (Serdar Argic)
Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast,talk.politics.soviet,soc.culture.greek,soc.culture.europe,soc.history,soc.culture.soviet,soc.culture.iranian
Followup-To: soc.culture.turkish
Subject: Educating Armenians according to the spirit of the Nazi ideas.
Date: Tue, 22 Dec 92 21:42:29 EST
Reply-To: sera@zuma.UUCP (Serdar Argic)
Distribution: world

In article <199212220440.AA03704@kocrsv01.delcoelect.com> c23st@kocrsv01.delcoelect.com (Spiros Triantafyllopoulos) writes:

>*****************************************************************
>* END OF RIDICULOUS ANALOGY. IT WAS ONLY A FAR FETCHED EXAMPLE. *
>* IF I COULD THINK OF SOMETHING BETTER I WOULD. NO FLAMES PLS.  *
>*****************************************************************

I really disagree with you. But maybe you know better, "sipa of delco".
In April 1942, Hitler was preparing for the invasion of the Caucasus.
A number of Nazi Armenian leaders began submitting plans to German
officials in spring and summer 1942. One of them was Souren Begzadian
Paikhar, son of a former ambassador of the Armenian Republic in Baku.
Paikhar wrote a letter to Hitler, asking for German support to his
Armenian national socialist movement Hossank and suggesting the
creation of an Armenian SS formation in order 

"to educate the youth of liberated Armenia according to the 
 spirit of the Nazi ideas."

He wanted to unite the Armenians of the already occupied territories
of the USSR in his movement and with them conquer historic Turkish
homeland. Paikhar was confined to serving the Nazis in Goebbels
Propaganda ministry as a speaker for Armenian- and French-language
radio broadcastings.[1] The Armenian-language broadcastings were
produced by yet another Nazi Armenian Viguen Chanth.[2]

[1] Patrick von zur Muhlen (Muehlen), p. 106.
[2] Enno Meyer, A. J. Berkian, 'Zwischen Rhein und Arax, 900
    Jahre Deutsch-Armenische beziehungen,' (Heinz Holzberg
    Verlag-Oldenburg 1988), pp. 124 and 129.

Serdar Argic

                     'This war quickly developed into one of extermination. 
                      We closed the roads and mountain passes that might 
                      serve as ways of escape for the Tartars [Turks] and 
                      then proceeded in the work of extermination.'
                                                       (Ohanus Appressian)

Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast
From: hernlem@chess.ncsu.EDU (Brad Hernlem)
Subject: Re: nazi beer gardens
Reply-To: hernlem@chess.ncsu.EDU (Brad Hernlem)
Organization: North Carolina State University
Distribution: talk
Date: Tue, 22 Dec 1992 17:07:31 GMT

In article <1992Dec22.153306.25424@Princeton.EDU>,
stephen@watson.princeton.edu () writes:
> In article <1992Dec22.1777.21450@channel1>, "wayne mcguire"
<wayne.mcguire@channel1.com> writes:
> 
> > Israel and its supporters are in the process of marginalizing
> > themselves in the Western democratic world, with the result that
> > they will be treated as a joke, when they are paid attention to
> > at all. There is no moral imperative that dictates that Americans
> > have to listen respectfully to ranting militant nationalists of
> > any stripe. We can always exercise our right to shut them out of
> > our lives, much as we might shun the religious fanatics at the
> > airports. They can talk, but we won't be listening. Increasingly
> > they will be ranting to themselves alone.
> 
> I don't support the deportations, Wayne, but the truth is that any other 
> Western democratic nation would have acted identically.  Besides, who's 
> laughing at Israel now save the Palestinians and the other Arab nations?
> The Western world will always pay attention to Israel as a stabilizing 
> force in the region especially when Egypt and other neighbors
                                      ^^^^^
> inevitably setup fundamentalist regimes with jihad-happy campers running
             ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
> them.
> 
> Stephen.
> 

!!!??!?!?

I thought Mubarak's government was fighting the "fundamentalists".
Attacks on foreign tourists, of late, are calculated to hurt Mubarak's
government by cutting off tourist revenue. This is in an effort to
achieve changes in Mubarak's SECULAR government. 

I don't know where you get your news about Egypt but it seems to be from
very uninformed sources.

Mubarak is one of the main people responsible for the latest claim that
Iran is seeking to exert hegemony over the Middle East! He is very quick
to blame what he sees as fundamentalists for many of the problems in the
region. Your statement boggles my mind.

Brad Hernlem (hernlem@chess.ncsu.EDU)
From: aaldoubo@copper.denver.colorado.edu (Shaqeeqa)
Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast
Subject: Re: Jordanian Palestinians (was: israel & hamas)
Date: 31 Dec 92 09:17:19 GMT
Organization: University of Colorado at Denver

In article <1992Dec28.230547.13464@nysernet.org> astein@nysernet.org (Alan Stein) writes:
>
>Funny how Israel didn't expressly exclude Arabs from being citizens.

But I wonder what the conditions are?

Anisa
 
Xref: sparky talk.politics.mideast:24615 talk.politics.soviet:10201 soc.culture.greek:12018 soc.culture.europe:10991 soc.history:10519 soc.culture.soviet:11780 soc.culture.turkish:13761