From: root@khijol.UUCP
Newsgroups: alt.sexual.abuse.recovery
Subject: post
Date: 11 Sep 92 07:21:12 GMT

X-ANON-Version: 0.4



Article 5497 of alt.sexual.abuse.recovery Jeffrey Boser writes:

> sallyb@qiclab.scn.rain.com (Sally Bowley) writes:
          [ Jeff's original comments deleted for space ]
> >i absolutely disagree with what you are suggesting and am shocked that
> >you say poohbear must "pay the price" - for *WHAT*???? i am trying not
> >to let my anger at your apparent insensitivity towards this situation
> >cloud my reply, as i am unsure of where you are coming from to cause
> >you to condone inflicting possibly fatal wounds on oneself. 
> 
> I do condone it.  I even condone suicide.  I happen to believe that
> a persons right to do as they wish with their body and life is
> absolute and implicit.

But, does this assume that a person is of such a state of mind as to
be able to *rationally* decide to do this?

>     [ more stuff deleted ]
> Her wounds are her choice.  In fact, in her posting she did not ask

But is she fully capable (mentally) of making a choice?

> No, this is not true.  Poobear posted saying that she was having a
> a bad time, and that she was cutting herself.  All of a sudden
> everybody comes out with 'suggestions' like the ice and writing and
> exercising, saying 'dont hurt yourself'.  Thats what Im complaining
> about.

Why are you complaining?  Because they offered what they think is help?
As you said, Poohbear could make whatever choice s/he needed to.

   [ more stuff deleted ]

> Oh, Im not denying them to poobear or anybody else.  We all must
> deal with our crosses in our own way.  By the same token, telling
> poobear that inflicting pain on herself was wrong, and to try something
> else wasnt very understanding either.

Why wasn't it understanding?  I think offering alternatives is a very
understanding thing to do, it is not like someone said "don't" and
offered no help.

> 
> >poohbear (an none of us) must "pay the price" as you suggest. poohbear
> >is *not* responsible for what is causing the underlying pain and i
> >feel thatyour suggestion that he/she must pay the price suggests
> >responsibility for thisi feel thatyour suggestion that he/she must pay
> >the price suggests responsibility for this.
> 
> But we are responsable.  Sure, poobear isnt responsable for the things
> that were done to her, but she is responsable for how she deals with it.
> She has to find her own way of looking at things, to find her own path.

But are you saying that Poobear should not get helpful suggestions?  If
Poohbear was not reaching for help I don't think that poohbear would have
posted here.

> 
> I have strong misgivings myself about this.  Ever time I made up my
> mind and decided that the pain was wrong and I wanted to stop it,
> I curled up and locked myself away.  There is no way to save people
> from themselves, and giving them love to help them see your way is
> pretty manipulative.  My aunt does this..  I love you but youve got

I think only if the love someone gives has a PRICE of not doing something.
to say "I love you, but you really should stop this" to me is different
from "I'll love you IF you stop doing this"

> to stop doing this..  or start doing this..
> 
> People are, they love, they hate, they feel pain, they feel joy.
> Every time one of these things is taken from us, we cease being
> human.

Would you also say that if Poohbear had a broken leg that Poohbear
should not see a doctor to have it fixed?  Would you condem Poohbear
to a potentially difficult future as a possible cripple simply because
Poohbear wasn't sure if s/he was in shape to see a doctor?

	[ more stuff deleted for space ]
> >ad to poohbear, *you do NOT* have any price to pay - you've "paid"
> >already a hundred times over. you are a good and special person who
> >does not deserve pain; i hope  you continue to heal safely.

I second the above, I hope you heal fast and well.

> 
> <frown>  I have yet to meet a person who was not paying, who finished
> up the payments and could then go on to a bright and better future.

I'd like to meet ya' then friend...

> 
> All I see are sad, lonely people, all too aware of the pain thats out
> there, and not letting that beat them into submission.  They stand
> proud, their shoulders slumped under the heavy weight of pain, and
> they still manage to smile every now and then.

Yep, I'd really like to meet ya....because I'm one!

Taylor W. Mohrle		khijol!twm@saturn.upl.com

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Newsgroups: alt.sexual.abuse.recovery