HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: Steve_Hooper@tvbbs.wimsey.bc.ca (Steve Hooper)
Newsgroups: rec.railroad
Subject: Re: Dealing with signal malfunctions
Distribution: world
Date: 26 Jan 93 09:41:37 PST
Organization: Tunnel-Vision BBS!

In a message dated Mon 25 Jan 93  2:10, Bob@1776.com (robert Coe) wrote:

> This situation [signals changing to red as a result of a malfunction] has
> happened to me numerous times...probably every 20th trip or so it will 
> happen.  You get a 568 to pass the red signal, proceed at restricted
speed
> looking out for switches turned, broken rail etc to the next signal.

 BC> How do you do that?  By peering out the windshield with binoculars? 
 BC> By the
 BC> time you get in sight of such an obstruction, you don't have much
 BC> time to
 BC> stop, do you?

You have to remember, you are doing restricted speed through the block, so
you ARE going slow enough to stop.

And 99 times out of 100, it is a bond wire that has fallen off, not a
broken rail or switch turned etc.  There has been times that it WAS a
broken rail, we did not see it, went OVER it without incident, and the S &
C boys (Signals & Communications) find the broken rail after a couple of
trains went over it.


-- Via DLG Pro v0.995

     Steve Hooper               []  The Great White North In
                                []  Vancouver, British Columbia
steve_hooper@tvbbs.wimsey.bc.ca []          CANADA
From: elw4@po.CWRU.Edu (Evan L. Werkema)
Newsgroups: rec.railroad
Subject: Re: More MARC scuttlebutt
Date: 23 Jan 1993 23:22:52 GMT
Organization: Case Western Reserve University, Cleveland, OH (USA)
Reply-To: elw4@po.CWRU.Edu (Evan L. Werkema)
NNTP-Posting-Host: thor.ins.cwru.edu


In a previous article, wbrill@hpfcso.FC.HP.COM (Warren Brill) says:

>In rec.railroad, mangoe@cs.umd.edu (Charley Wingate) writes:
>
>> Bruce Tiffany writes:
>> 
>> >[The E-9s] do not have HEP trainlined through the nose, nor do they have
>^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>While we're on the subject of the ex-BN E-9s, does anybody know how many
>time BN had those things rebuilt? Also, did M-K do all the rebuilds?

  According to the _Contemporary Diesel Spotter's Guide_, Morrison-Knudsen
rebuilt 21 BN E9A's with 645 power assemblies in 1973 and 4 E8A's in 1978 for 
the Chicago-Aurora run.  I'm sure BN overhualed the original units many times 
before this, but the 1973 rebuilds were MK's first contract rebuildings ever. 

  If memory serves, the 1973-rebuilt E9's were numbered 9900-9904 and 9910-9925, and
the 1978-rebuilt E8's were 9905-9908, leaving 9909 vacant.

  Speaking of the BN E's, as of last weekend, the following 16 E's were still
stored elephant style south of Union Station in Chicago, near where Amtrak
wyes incoming trains (don't know the technical name of the place):

  9900, 9901, 9903, 9904, 9910, 9912, 9913, 9914, 9915, 9916, 9917, 
  9918, 9921, 9923, 9924, 9925.
-- 
   ----__________,,_-------     -------_,,___________----     
  _IooI ==          ~~~~~~I     I~~~~~~           == IooI_   I~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~I
|_II__I____Santa Fe_______I_| |_I_____Evan Werkema___I__II_| Ielw4@po.cwru.eduI
`-~O==O~=============~O==O~-`~`-~O==O~==============~O==O~-`~~o==o~~~~~~~~o==o~
Newsgroups: rec.railroad
From: M00209@MBVM.Mitre.Org
Subject: Re: Why is SEPTA so horrible?
Organization: The MITRE Corporation, Bedford MA 01730
Date: Wed, 27 Jan 1993 13:54:38 GMT

In article <1993Jan27.015532.17615@s1.gov>
lip@s1.gov (Loren I. Petrich) writes:
 
>
>
>        I've seen some comments about how the Southeastern
>Pennsylvania Transportation Authority (SEPTA: the Philadelphia area)
>is supposedly one of the worst managed systems around. How is that???
>--
Well, I'm not sure I'd lay the blame entirely on the management.  SEPTA's
basic problem has been that it has no reliable long term source of funds.
It is controlled by a Board which is dominated by the City of Philadelphia,
which in the style of the little boy who owns the only bat, continually
threatens to take its money and go home if the game isn't played by its rules.
David Gunn has been a controversial factor in several cities, but IMHO he is
a competent no-nonsense manager.  You may not agree with everything he does
but you have to respect his forthrightness and desire to make things work.
Unfortunately, the cards tend to be stacked against good management.
Mostly because of the lack of independent funding that can't be pulled out by
somebody who is unhappy with management's policies.  To run SEPTA you have to
play politics, which doesn't make for good railroading.
 
The lack of solid funding has led to actual or threatened service cuts, fare
increases, deferred maintenance, etc., all of which make management look bad
when it's not entirely under their control.  I don't know the full story
behind abandonment of the PCC routes, but I would guess that the major factors
prompting this decision were the age of the equipment coupled with the problems
inherent in operating streetcars along narrow streets like the 23 route uses to
get through Center City.  Personally I was surprised to see that the 15 line
was shut down.  As I recall, Girard Avenue is plenty wide enough to handle
streetcars, and the line was heavily used.  But then, I'm 300 or so miles
away, so I probably don't know all the details.
 
In summary, SEPTA probably has had some management problems, but my personal
guess is that those pale into insignificance in contrast to the problems
created by the political forces with which it has to deal and the lack of
secure independent funding.  The net result of all of these has been a system
that from the point of view of the rider is unreliable, unpredictable (in the
long term) and unattractive.  It's really a shame because the basic infra-
structure that SEPTA inherited from its predecessors was arguably the best
transit network in the U.S.
 
 
Len Bachelder        Archives Committee, Boston and Maine RR Historical Society
MITRE Corp.           Secretary, Massachusetts Bay Railroad Enthusiasts
Bedford MA 01730      Member, 470 Railroad Club
<M00209@mbvm.mitre.org>
 
"Amazing love, how can it be that Thou, my God, should'st die for me!"
                                                 - Charles Wesley
Newsgroups: rec.railroad
From: dboone@IASTATE.EDU (David L. Boone)
Subject: Re: passenger service in binghamton?
Reply-To: dboone@IASTATE.EDU (David L. Boone)
Organization: Iowa State University
Date: Thu, 28 Jan 1993 18:35:08 GMT

In article <1993Jan27.104141.2100@walter.cray.com> rl@ferris.cray.com 
(Randy Lambertus) writes:
 
>  What is exactly is the current state of the roadbed from Lake Hopatcong
>  to Scranton? 

To which Len Bachelder <M00209@MBVM.Mitre.Org> replied, in part:

> . . .  In PA, I believe the right of way is owned by the Counties
> through which it passes.  I don't know about the portion through the
> Delaware Water Gap . . .

I believe that Conrail owns approximately 5 miles of track in the Water Gap,
servicing some industry, if memory serves.  My guess is that they'll do what
they can to prevent another competing line in "their territory".
--
David L. Boone
Engineer, Iowa State University Computation Center
Internet: dboone@iastate.edu    Bitnet:  gn.dlb@isumvs
Voice:    (515) 294-1977        US mail: 74 Durham Hall, Ames, IA 50011
From: cs90nrs@brunel.ac.uk (Nicholas R Swift)
Newsgroups: rec.railroad
Subject: Travelling on SNCF
Date: 28 Jan 93 10:48:28 GMT
Organization: Brunel University, Uxbridge, UK
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1 PL8]

I want to travel to Biarritz over the summer (via Paris). Has anyone
done the route? If so, any comments about what to see along the line
etc. etc. would be appreciated.

Are there any peculiarities with the French system? Particularly
anything that's different from the UK and is liable to cause trouble.

I'd also like to know whether SNCF allow amateur radio equipment to 
be operated on-board.

Nick, cs90nrs@brunel.ac.uk   (G7ENS)
-- 
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
      Nick  Swift             JANET        : cs90nrs @ cs.brunel.ac.uk        
                              Packet Radio : g7ens @ gb7ens.#38.gbr.eu
From: rad@railnet.nshore.ORG (Rick DeMattia)
Newsgroups: rec.railroad
Subject: A few GIFs available by mail
Date: Sat, 23 Jan 93 23:24:27 EST
Distribution: na
Organization: Railnet BBS +1 216 786 0476

For those of you without FTP access - a few rail GIF images are
available uuencoded via mail from railnet BBS.  Send a mail addressed
to arc-serv@railnet.nshore.org containing the lines
	get index
	get help
for a brief instruction sheet and a list of available files. 
The index was last updated Jan 23.

-- 
UUCP: {uunet|backbone}!railnet!rad   rad@railnet.nshore.org
CompuServe: 72517.666@compuserve.COM
From: elw4@po.CWRU.Edu (Evan L. Werkema)
Newsgroups: rec.railroad
Subject: Re: Sante Fe paint schemes
Date: 22 Jan 1993 23:31:14 GMT
Organization: Case Western Reserve University, Cleveland, OH (USA)
Reply-To: elw4@po.CWRU.Edu (Evan L. Werkema)
NNTP-Posting-Host: thor.ins.cwru.edu


In a previous article, caer@iear.arts.rpi.edu (Charlie Figura) says:

>Allright, yet another question floating around my head...
>Here's one ive been wondering about for a *long* time (like, since
>I was 5?)  When I was a kid (5, figure that) I got my first train,
>a Lionel FA2, Sante Fe.  The interesting thing was, it was painted
>like the standard Sante Fe silver and red with the gold stripe
>(superchief, i guess its called?) -- except it wasnt red, it was
>blue.  Much like the Delaware &... St. Lawrence, mebbe?
>Point is, i NEVER saw such a paint scheme, blue and silver
>sante fe in ANY pictures, *anywhere* else.
>Until last night I saw a Marklin HO F3 ABA set...
>and it was the same blue & silver with the gold stripe sante
>fe.  I figured Lionel could be unprototypical :-) but that
>a $520 Marklin *should* be pretty accurate.
>
>The question is, what gives?  When did Sante Fe (and where)
>use that scheme?  I know today their freight uses yellow and
>dark blue, but this is different.  anyone?  thanks...

   This scheme, commonly called the "blue bonnet," was only applied to a few
engines.  There was a list somewhere, but I don't have it with me.  It was, 
as you say, pretty much just a substitution of blue for red.  It was
applied to about half-a-dozen F7 or F3A's and B's after the creation of 
Amtrak, and was one of several "freight schemes" the Santa Fe painted the 
former passenger F's when they were transferred to freight duties.  Another 
version, using yellow in place of red was applied to many more units, 
including 347C & B, the last surviving Santa Fe F's.  The intent was probably 
a quick change of appearance while saving on paint by leaving the silver/black
are alone, or to avoid having to paint the stainless steel panels on the 
sides.  347B even retained it's chief's head emblem on its stainless steel 
side panels when the red/yellow/black stripe along the bottom was replaced 
with a simple yellow stripe.

  I'd guess the first "blue bonnets" started showing up in 1971 or '72 and were
gone by 1974 or '75 as Cleburne shops chewed up F's and spit out CF7's.

-- 
   ----__________,,_-------     -------_,,___________----     
  _IooI ==          ~~~~~~I     I~~~~~~           == IooI_   I~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~I
|_II__I____Santa Fe_______I_| |_I_____Evan Werkema___I__II_| Ielw4@po.cwru.eduI
`-~O==O~=============~O==O~-`~`-~O==O~==============~O==O~-`~~o==o~~~~~~~~o==o~
Newsgroups: rec.railroad
From: yhshowie@ubvmsb.cc.buffalo.edu (Howard Wharton)
Newsgroups: rec.railroad
Subject: Re: NEC
Date: 26 Jan 93 02:14:00 GMT
Organization: University at Buffalo
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41

In article <16B61E192.M00209@MBVM.Mitre.Org>, M00209@MBVM.Mitre.Org writes...
>In article <C1A9rx.Hww@acsu.buffalo.edu>
>yhshowie@ubvmsb.cc.buffalo.edu (Howard Wharton) writes:
> 
>>
>>In article <3212@tymix.Tymnet.COM>, romeo@niagara.Tymnet.COM (Michael Stimac) writes...
>>  Power (motors) were changed at Sunnyside...New Haven's motors that ran
>>into GCT were designed to run on NYCs underrunning 3rd rail not on
>>PRR/LIRR overrunning third rail. I belive that the FL-9s shoes could be
>>changed to over or underrunning.
> 
>Sorry, I can't let this one go by without comment.
> 
>I have ridden the trains between Boston, New York and Washington hundreds of
>times since about 1953, and I can state unequivocally that I have NEVER been on
>a train that changed power at Sunnyside!  In pre-Penn Central days, the PRR
>GG1s were swapped for New Haven EP5s (or earlier power) at the station stop in
>Penn Station.  Invariably so, as far as I know.  PRR's GG1s were, of course,
>serviced at Sunnyside.  New Haven engines, I believe, were serviced only at
>New Haven, though I suppose minor repairs could be performed at Oak Point
>if they had to.
> 
>As for the PC era, that was when they started running the GG1s through to
>New Haven.  I believe that some (minor) modifications to the overhead were
>required.  I seem to remember some early problems with the GG1s pantographs
>snagging the wire at "dead spots" and phase breaks (e. g., Cos Cob Bridge).
> 
>I don't believe that FL9s ever ran into Penn Station until well into the
>Amtrak generation, and I don't think Amtrak ever used them routinely there
>until the opening of the West Side Connection.  There is a fairly well known
>story that has come to be part of "urban legend", and may well be apochryphal,
>concerning this.  It is said that sometime after the New Haven had been running
>FL9s into GCT for some time, the President of the Pennsy (perhaps Saunders)
>was asked what about running them into Penn Station too and saving the
>engine change at New Haven for their trains as well.  His comment supposedly
>was something like "Not on your life!  If Mr. Perlman wants to blow his
>station to Hell, that's his business, but there won't be any engines with
>fuel tanks running into my Station!"
> 
> 
>Len Bachelder        Archives Committee, Boston and Maine RR Historical Society
>MITRE Corp.           Secretary, Massachusetts Bay Railroad Enthusiasts
>Bedford MA 01730      Member, 470 Railroad Club
><M00209@mbvm.mitre.org>
> 
>"Amazing love, how can it be that Thou, my God, should'st die for me!"
>                                                 - Charles Wesley
New Haven changed engines at Sunnyside before Pennsy ran catanary
through Penn.
New Haven ran afew FL-9s into Penn, I seen a few pictures of them
sitting in the motor storage (area in the open between the station
and the Post Office).
Newsgroups: rec.railroad
From: ggg9y@poe.acc.Virginia.EDU (Garth G. Groff)
Subject: Re: box cars 
Organization: University of Virginia
Date: Thu, 21 Jan 1993 13:40:13 GMT


MORE ON BOXCARS

The question you have asked is quite complex, and I can
only speak in generalities.  My information is largely
based on recent articles in RAILMODEL JOURNAL and is from
memory (since I am now at work).  End disclaimer.

There were experiments with steel cars, or steel covered
wooden cars during the late 1800s.  One example:  the
Carson & Colorado (later SP's narrow gauge Owens Valley
Line) operated steel covered boxcars before 1900.  The 
B&LE bought the first all-steel boxcar in 1908 (#9000)
and ordered more in 1914.  During the WWI era, several
major lines began buying large fleets of all-steel cars,
including the UP with steel-sided outside braced 40 and
50 foot cars, the PRR with its famous X-28 and X-29 and
large numbers of steel cars for the NYC and its affiliates.
Many other roads purchased similar cars during the 1920s,
including the B&O, CNJ, etc.  However, there were many
steel-framed cars with wooden sides built until the 
early 1930s.  About 1932 the ARA published its recommended
design for an all-steel 40-foot boxcar.  This was 
subsequently expanded in size in 1938 and again in 1942
until the standard inside height of 10' 6" was reached.
Nearly all boxcars built during the 1930-1940 era were 
all steel, though there were exceptions (especially the
GN and NP which used the same designs but substituted 
wooden sides).  When steel supplies became critical in
WWII, there was a brief flurry of building single-sheathed
cars again.  Some of these continuted as wood-sides cars
for years, others were rebuilt with steel sheathing after
the war.  There were some experiments just after the
war using plywood sides for boxcars (the GN again), but
they were brief.

The true overlap period of wooden and serious steel car
construction was during the 1920s.  There were many 
throwbacks during the 1930s and 1940s, but by about 1932
steel construction was established practice.  Many wood
sided cars continued to serve for years.  In the early
1950s, wood cars still made up substantial portion of the
U.S. car fleet.  There were thinned rapidly so that by
the 1960s wood cars were very rare in regular service.
The last wood-sided car I ever saw in service was a 
pristine double-sheathed NP car being loaded with dog
food in Los Angeles in 1975.

I am sure there are many readers out there who will add to
this summary (or dispute my facts, which after all are from
memory), but its a start.

~S
--
Garth (Haridas) Groff
"Not yet famous author"
ggg9y@poe.acc.virginia.EDU         Chant "Govinda Bohlo Hare"
From: x92ochs1@gw.wmich.edu
Newsgroups: rec.railroad
Subject: Amtrak Pere Marquette delayed.
Date: 25 Jan 93 13:03:38 EST
Organization: Western Michigan University

Last night, Amtrak's Pere Marquette(#370) lost it's engine and was 
stranded in Michigan City for nearly 5 hours until an engine could be
sent out to pull the train.  This is the second time in less than a week
that this train has been delayed by faulty equipment.  Last week an their
engine died in Hammond, IN and was delayed for several hours.  Then the
morning after that, the replacement engine was damaged and the train derailed
by a flat-bed trailer on a truck in Gary near the steel mills.


P370-24, as CSX designates it, arrived at St. Joseph MI at 12:53 am, rather
than 8:11 pm as it is supposed to.

Jeff Ochs
From: zoo@cygnus.com (david d 'zoo' zuhn)
Newsgroups: rec.railroad
Subject: Re: West Coast Spottings
Date: 21 Jan 93 22:35:24 GMT
Organization: Cygnus Support -- +1 415 903 1434
In-reply-to: clark@angelo.amd.com's message of 20 Jan 93 20:50:31 GMT

Up in Coos Bay, Oregon last weekend, I caught a very-early GP (7, 9, can't
tell 'em apart), still in Kodachrome paint.  Didn't catch the number -- was
a couple of blocks away, and dirty paint (on the SP, if you can believe
that :)

I used to always see the BN's SD9-GP9B-SD9 sets that they use for hump
shoving and transfer runs in Minneapolis.  Those sets can haul a lot of
equipment at a pretty good pace.  

  david d 'zoo' zuhn |    
    cygnus support   |    And if you're never lost, how can you be found?     
    zoo@cygnus.com   |    


Newsgroups: rec.railroad
From: brom@yoyo.cc.monash.edu.au (David Bromage)
Subject: 79mph
Organization: Monash University
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1 PL8]
Date: Thu, 28 Jan 1993 01:13:43 GMT


Could somebody please explain why some US railroads limit their trains to
the strange maximum speed of 79mph? I assume it has something to do with
the legal requirements of running at 80mph and above.

Thanks in advance
David Bromage
From: maral@repare.EBay.Sun.COM (Mark Maral)
Newsgroups: rec.railroad
Subject: Re: ? about engine sets THANKS
Date: 25 Jan 1993 19:17:11 GMT
Organization: Sun Microsystems
Distribution: world
Reply-To: maral@repare.EBay.Sun.COM
NNTP-Posting-Host: repare.ebay.sun.com

I would like to thank everyone for the great responses I received.

I have a much clearer understanding of the how and why's behind the
makeup of engine lash-ups.  

Mark Maral

Newsgroups: rec.railroad
From: M00209@MBVM.Mitre.Org
Subject: Re: NEC
Organization: The MITRE Corporation, Bedford MA 01730
Date: Wed, 27 Jan 1993 13:40:18 GMT

In article <1993Jan26.221709.6694@ryn.mro4.dec.com>
pierson@empror.enet.dec.com (dave pierson) writes:
 
>
>        Well, for about 15 years (NY Connecting, ca 1920, PRR gets catenary
>        into Penn Station, ca 1935), there had to be some way to get the through
>        trains to Penn Station.  Could have been thru NH power, IF (as i
>        believe, tho cannot find docs, except the employee TT reference to
>        rake off blocks near Harold) the NH shoe gear could handle overrunning
>        and underrunning third rail.
>        OR
>        They could have changed to DD1/L5 "somewhere", probably around
>        Harold (Unlikely to actually enter Sunnyside, per se, thats off to
>        one side.)
>        My uncertainty is about what the NH did before the wires went up.
>
I share your "uncertainty".  i have a couple of ETTs from the late 20s.
If I get a chance in the next several days, I'll see if I can find
any enlightenment in them.
 
 
Len Bachelder        Archives Committee, Boston and Maine RR Historical Society
MITRE Corp.           Secretary, Massachusetts Bay Railroad Enthusiasts
Bedford MA 01730      Member, 470 Railroad Club
<M00209@mbvm.mitre.org>
 
"Amazing love, how can it be that Thou, my God, should'st die for me!"
                                                 - Charles Wesley
Newsgroups: rec.railroad
From: ggg9y@poe.acc.Virginia.EDU (Garth G. Groff)
Subject: Re: Chicago Burlington and Quincy (was: the proposed T line in Boston
Organization: University of Virginia
Date: Mon, 25 Jan 1993 19:23:46 GMT


CB&Q, ETC.

Whoa, Doug!  What about the Northern Pacific?  Surely this
line was nearly as important as the GN and CB&Q.  Actually,
two other lines also went into the BN:  the Spokane, 
Portland & Seattle (already a subisdiary of the NP & GN)
if I remember correctly) and the Pacific Coast, a shortline
in the Seattle-Tacoma area which had already pretty much
lost its identity.  I think these lines still had their
own corporate shell since I remember reading at the time
that they were applicants to the merger.  I suppose that
the picture can become even more fuzzy when you start
adding lines which had some separate identity even though
they had no independence.  I am thinking of the CB&Q
subsidiaries like the Fort Worth & Denver and Colorado &
Southern which were simply carried by the CB&Q into the
merger with no voice in the application.  Since then the
Jolly Green Giant was also gobbled up the St. Louis-San
Francisco (Frisco Lines).  

~S
--
Garth (Haridas) Groff
"Not yet famous author"
ggg9y@poe.acc.virginia.EDU         Chant "Govinda Bohlo Hare"
From: jbrandt@hplred.HPL.HP.COM (Jobst Brandt)
Date: Fri, 22 Jan 1993 01:51:01 GMT
Subject: Re: European track
Organization: Hewlett-Packard Laboratories, Palo Alto, CA