HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: scg@mentor.cc.purdue.edu (Scott Goehring)
Newsgroups: soc.women,talk.abortion
Subject: Re: Pro Choice Election S
Date: 29 Jul 92 23:27:01 GMT
Reply-To: scg@mentor.cc.purdue.edu
Followup-To: talk.abortion
Organization: Society for the Prevention of National Mudding Associations

goid@zooid.guild.org (Will Steeves) writes:

>I know that I use the term "pro-abortion" because it is not as
>inflammatory as "pro-death" or "anti-life," but while the term *does*
>suggest a preference towards "maximising the number of abortions,"
>the opinion remains that it is not *just* a matter of the woman's
>choice, at least in the eyes of people who ar sitting on the fence,
>so to speak, ie., so "pro-choice" isn't an apt term either.

I object to the term 'pro-abortion' being used to describe my
(pro-choice) position, precisely because it somehow implies that I
have a 'preference towards "maximising the number of abortions"'.  I
would LIKE to see as few abortions as possible.  I also know that the
State is not competent to decide when abortions should and should not
be performed, nor do I wish the State empowered to make that decision.
Therefore, I wish for that power to rest in the only logical place it
can: with the woman.  The power to CHOOSE should be left with the
people.  Hence the term, pro-CHOICE.

>At any rate, if you think that I am just being prejudicial towards
>your side, I also don't like saying "pro-life," although I sometimes
>do (as I sometimes say "pro-choice").

Anti-abortion stances are a subset of the pro-life stance.
Unfortunately, most 'pro-lifers' are not really pro-life.  Some are,
some aren't.

As a poster I saw in the Purdue NARAL display states, it is possible
to be both pro-choice and pro-life.  Characterizing the two positions
as opposites is fallacious.

>I prefer just saying "pro-abortion" and "anti-abortion," just because
>these are the only two terms that seem to represent the fact that
>both sides are diametrically oppsed.  Even so, I am not so ignorant
>as to not realise that both of these terms *do* have their
>limitations.  Indeed, in an ideological war, *every* descriptive term
>has limitations which attempt to stack the deck in favour of one's
>own side and against the other.
--
The real question for 1988 is whether we're going to go forward to tomorrow or
past to the -- to the back!
		-- Vice President Dan Quayle
Newsgroups: soc.women
From: rfs@cbnewsh.cb.att.com (richard.f.j.soyack)
Subject: Re: Taking the Solo Road
Organization: AT&T
Date: Thu, 23 Jul 1992 12:04:33 GMT

In article <1992Jul23.022819.13443@zooid.guild.org> Will Steeves <goid@zooid.guild.org> writes:
>biesel@javelin.sim.es.com (Heiner Biesel) writes...
>HB> Now, just to keep things fair and equal, we really should start up egg
>HB> banks, and push the development of the artificial uterus, so male
>HB> same-sex couples can share in the joy of raising children of their own.
>
>HB> Oh brave new world, oh wondrous technology...
>
>
>Your cynicism and scepticism, though understandable, are slightly misplaced
>because in fact, such technology *is* being researched.
>
>Indeed, while I have not heard the feminist response, I doubt that it would
>be negative, since so many seem to have decried women's "biological prison"
>and would in all likelyhood welcome the opportunity to be free of it if they
>wanted.

New born babies are able to recognized their mother's and
father's voices.  This is because they have been listening,
from inside.  This must be a great comfort for the little ones
who have just had their world drastically changed.  I wonder
what harm it would do new born babies to have them conceived
and grow in a lab setting rather than in their mother's womb?
I wonder how this harm might translate into problems when
these babies become adults?

Rich Soyack
From: lisa@zeppelin.llnl.gov (Lisa Corsetti)
Newsgroups: soc.women
Subject: Re: women's place in life
Date: 28 Jul 92 18:25:06 GMT
Reply-To: lisa@zeppelin.llnl.gov (Lisa Corsetti)
Organization: Climate Model Intercomparison Group, LLNL


Isn't it amazing how some develop computer skills far earlier in life
than maturity? 

   "There's no beginning, no ending. There's just infinite
    passion of life."
Xref: sparky soc.women:14354 talk.abortion:29585 sci.med:14870
From: stone@cunixb.cc.columbia.edu (Glenn Stone)
Newsgroups: soc.women,talk.abortion,sci.med
Subject: Re: Ancient Methods of Birth Control
Date: 30 Jul 92 17:46:55 GMT
Reply-To: stone@cunixb.cc.columbia.edu (Glenn Stone)
Organization: Columbia University

mprc@troi.cc.rochester.edu (M. Price) writes:

>>Now I always thought that 
>
>>in days of old,
>>when knights were bold
>>and rubbers weren't invented,
>>they just wrapped socks
>>around their cocks
>>and babies were prevented.
>
>     Interesting. I was always told that
>in days of old
>when knights were bold
>and paper wasn't invented,
>they wiped their arse
>in bits of grass
>and went away contented.
>
>     Of course, the history books have been updated since then...

Yes, I asked a colleague in the history department about this, and he
said that view has been generally discredited.  But he did give me
an article of his in which he argues that

in days of old
when knights were bold
and there were no "phone sex" numbers,
they's have their steeds
do dirty deeds
while they pummelled their cucumbers.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------
  Glenn Davis Stone                                BITNET: stone@cunixf
  Columbia University            INTERNET: stone@cunixb.cc.columbia.edu
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
Xref: sparky soc.women:14125 alt.sex:25124
From: Arthur_T_Hu@cup.portal.com
Newsgroups: soc.women,alt.sex
Subject: Re: *SURVEY RESULTS*  Women, Urination and Wet Swim Suits
Date: Sun, 26 Jul 92 09:41:42 PDT
Organization: The Portal System (TM)

Actually, Whole Earth Access was selling a similar book on how to Pee in the
woods, with emphasis on how women should do it. Don't women talk to each
other and tell each other about this stuff? Evidently not. My wife grew up
in Vietnam, and the girls there didn't tell each other ANYTHING about off]
color topics.
Newsgroups: soc.women,talk.abortion,sci.med
From: rpetsche@mrg.tmc.edu (Rolfe G. Petschek)
Subject: Re: Ancient Methods of Birth Control
Reply-To: rpetsche@mrg.CWRU.EDU (Rolfe G. Petschek)
Organization: CWRU Physics Department
Date: Wed, 29 Jul 92 11:22:56 GMT

In article <1992Jul29.001558.19725@s1.gov> lip@s1.gov (Loren I. Petrich) writes:
>In article <1992Jul28.125840.8994@news.columbia.edu> stone@cunixb.cc.columbia.edu (Glenn Stone) writes:

>:they just wrapped socks
>:around their cocks
>:and babies were prevented.

>	Well, every sock I've ever encountered is rather permeable to
>fluids.

But have you *ever* tried to have sex/an orgasm with such a sock in that
location (ouch)?  If so, what did she think?  (No, I didn't think so).
--
Rolfe G. Petschek			Petschek@cwru.bitnet
Associate Professor of Physics		rgp@po.cwru.edu
Case Western Reserve University		(216)368-4035 
Cleveland Oh 44106-7079
Newsgroups: soc.women
From: mlantin@csi.uottawa.ca (Maria Lantin)
Subject: Re: RU-486 volunteer
Organization: University of Ottawa
Date: Mon, 27 Jul 92 13:55:06 GMT

In article <62842@cup.portal.com> Arthur_T_Hu@cup.portal.com writes:
>Related issue - what would Quayle do if her daughter needed an abortion.
>I'd bet that if they've raised their daughter the way I think they did,
>that question would simply never come up, because she would never need one.
>Believe it or not, there are patterns of behavior that make this a moot
>question. It was never an issue in my family because none of us go pregnant
>or got anybody else pregnant, and it is unbelievably easy to make it happen
>this way (basically we didn't sleep around!)

I don't agree with this assertion.  I don't think that one has to "sleep
around" to get pregant.  It only takes one.  I know this is common sense
but I think that no matter how a person was brought up mistakes are
made and unwanted pregnancies occur.  I have seen perfectly normal families
with more than one child having major difficluties with one kid while the
other was an "angel" so to speak.  

				Maria


Xref: sparky soc.women:14438 soc.men:14022 sci.bio:2796 sci.skeptic:13489
From: gazit@duke.cs.duke.edu (Hillel Gazit)
Newsgroups: soc.women,soc.men,sci.bio,sci.skeptic
Subject: Re: Biological Sex Differences?
Date: 31 Jul 92 19:45:29 GMT
Reply-To: gazit@cs.duke.edu (Hillel)
Followup-To: soc.men
Organization: The Scorpions Nest

In article <1992Jul31.181210.15092@msc.cornell.edu> 
hillyard@msc.cornell.edu writes:
>Good enough, but I'd be more interested in reading a synopsis about the mating
>habits and social structure of our closer relatives:  gorillas and chimps.  As
>these are more likely to be applicable to humans.

Try "The Naked Ape" by Desmond Morris.  It is a book from 1967, and I
was very impressed when I read it as a teenager.  Now I think that he
missed a very important point - men is mostly a "software driven"
machine and not a "hardware driven" one.  The programming of men can
be changed, significantly (e.g. a 65 years old can learn to use a
computer), and he is pretty flexible and opportunist.

(I see some areas (e.g. learning languages) as "macro driven" in the
sense that if you don't develop the macros in early age then you
have to use slower functions instead.)
From: stricher@masig3.ocean.fsu.edu (Char Aznabul)
Newsgroups: soc.women
Subject: A question about NOW
Date: 23 Jul 92 00:27:24 GMT
Distribution: na

I've been wondering about this the last couple of days, but does NOW
fund any grants/fellowships/scholarships to assist in the education 
of younger women and similar programs to fund research carried out
by women?

And if not, why not?

K'Char
Newsgroups: soc.women
From: kranitz@dspalley (Wes Kranitz 4-6857 MRCE)
Subject: Re: women's place in life
Organization: Nowhere
X-Newsreader: Tin 1.1 PL3
Date: Mon, 27 Jul 92 16:12:48 GMT

s_mesbah@engr writes:
: Hi y'al
: 
: 	I am new to this group and I'd just thought I'd share my views with
: you.  I think that all you women should get away from the computer and start
: doing what you were created to do (kitchen, kids, and domesticated love slave).
: Remember, you were made from our rib!
: 
:   

BARF!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Wes
Newsgroups: soc.women
From: Will Steeves <goid@zooid.guild.org>
Subject: Re: imprisoning women who
X-To: BEVERLY HUNTSBERGER
Organization: The Zoo of Ids
Date: Thu, 23 Jul 1992 01:49:00 GMT

bev@opusc.csd.scarolina.edu (Beverly Huntsberger) writes...
BH> In <1992Jun26.114912.1@mdcbbs.com> rivero@mdcbbs.com writes:
BH> >  Hold on, there is merit to this position. The sole reason I am anti-abort
BH> >was that the current abortion laws allowed my ex to abort the child she had
BH> >primised me prior to proposal. I had no rights as husband and almost-father
BH> >Were this special case (not anywhere near as rare as you think) addressed
BH> >and husbands/fathers given either a veto, or the right to terminate the
BH> >marriage without fear of financial molestation, then I would be
BH> >pro-choice for all the other situations. It's a simple trade. You
BH> >respect my rights, and I will respect yours.

BH>         You were hurt by a woman, so you're expressing your
BH>         vengence against all women.  Is it really fair to take
BH>         out your revenge on women who have managed to live 20,
BH>         30, 40 years without even ever having had the opportunity
BH>         to hurt you.

WHy does his anger at being hurt, and his desire to right the inequities
of abortion on demand (also note the thread dealing with New Reproductive
Technlologies) necessarily denote "vengeance" against "all women"?

His wish to have some say in whether his children live or die is NOT an
attempt to "oppress women," any more than pro-abortion folk think that
their stance "oppresses" men.

Looking out for your own rights does not necessarily mean denying someone
else's.

Will
---
 * SLMR 2.1a * Say the best.  Think the rest!! - Troi
Newsgroups: soc.women,soc.men
From: bgarfink@copper.ucs.indiana.edu (beth diane garfinkel)
Subject: Re: Feminis
Organization: Indiana University
Date: Sat, 25 Jul 1992 03:00:41 GMT

In <24092@castle.ed.ac.uk> emct46@castle.ed.ac.uk (J H Dempsey) writes:

>Hi Ive never posted to this group before, but I have a point to make for
>which I expect I will receive much abuse from a certain group of woman.
>What sparked this was watching TV last night I saw a piece about Woman
>and AIDS. This led me to think what the hell has AIDS and women got in
>common. I mean its not like cervical cancer or other exclusively female
>diseases. AIDS infects men and woman equally and although some aspects
>(ie foetal infection) are concerns of woman it transmits itself by blood
>contact and intercourse from both men to women and women to men. This to
>me was a further example of some woman considering themselves a distinct
>species and can only be seen as feminism gone mad. I beleive in equal
>opportunities, etc and I am not a sexist or a MCP but the similarities
>between the sexes far outweigh the differences and some woman think that
>to do away with men would be no bad thing.

>AIDS is not sexist why should woman be.

Alas!  The reason why there needs to be studies and shows like this is
that the medical establishment as a whole has a regrettable tendency to
ignore women and the fact that women's function differently than the way
that men's bodies do.  For example, the connection between blood
cholesterol and heart disease has never been studied with regard to
women.  In fact, women are more likely to have serious conditions such
as heart attacks and die of them because their doctors did not take
their complaints seriously.  Likewise, with AIDS, because of the manner
in which the epidemic spread in the U.S., first among gay men and then
to women through straight male drug users, it has taken the medical
establishment a while to latch on to the fact that a woman is 8 to 10
times as likely to catch AIDS from a man as a man is from a woman.  I
don't know if this has changed, but not too long ago, officially, AIDS
the condition (as opposed to having the HIV virus) was legally and
medically defined as it appeared in men--Kaposi's sarcoma and
pneumocystis carii--while ignoring who it first appeared in women, with
recurrent yeast infections.  I remember hearing this in 1988.  Also at
that time, there had been studies done on how women pass AIDS to men,
and how women pass AIDS to their unborn children, but NONE about how
women caught AIDS themselves.  In other words, as long as the medical
establishment considers women a species apart, and the rest of the world
does too,  Feminists will shout, "Here we are, and you'd better pay
attention."
							Beth 
-- 
"Nobody worried about being mugged by a white-haired lady wearing white
gloves and a straw hat with a veil. (After Easter, Anyway)"
From: hrcoord@igc.org (Human Rights Coordinator)
Newsgroups: soc.rights.human
Subject: Indian Carpet Exporters Promise
Date: 27 Jul 92 23:17:00 GMT
Nf-ID: #N:cdp:1476700287:000:2555
Nf-From: cdp.UUCP!hrcoord    Jul 27 16:17:00 1992


From: Human Rights Coordinator <hrcoord>
Subject: Indian Carpet Exporters Promise

/* Written  3:13 pm  Jul 27, 1992 by hrcoord in cdp:hr.child */
Anti-Slavery Newsletter
June 1992

[The Anti-Slavery Newsletter is published by Anti-Slavery International,
180 Brixton Rd., London SW9 6AT, UK.]

Indian Carpet Exporters Promise to End Child Labor

The long running campaign by Anti-Slavery International to stop the
exploitation of children in the hand-knotted carpet industry of
South Asia is beginning to have an effect.

In India more than 30 manufacturers - companies that sub-contract
work to the loom masters - have committed themselves to the elimination
of migrant and bonded child labor among their suppliers. They have
promised to stop employing very young children in the longer term.
They also favor the introduction of a `child labor free' label, a
move backed by the All India Carpet Manufacturers' Association and
other manufacturers' organizations. All these groups are co-operating
closely with the Bonded Liberation Front and other Indian non-
governmental organizations (NGOs).

Thirteen manufacturers have already guaranteed that their carpets
are woven only by adults. Major carpet importers in Germany and
the UK say they fully support the Indian initiative.

ASI and other European development organizations strongly encourage
these moves. Now we need similar action in other carpet-exporting
countries, such as Nepal, Pakistan and Afghanistan. Otherwise there
is a danger that the Indian suppliers will be undercut by the
competition and lose their market share.

State governments, the Indian carpet industry and the NGOs are also
discussing rehabilitation of migrant child workers who are returned
to their home states. This would include basic education and 
training facilities.

ASI believes that the future of the released children will require
careful monitoring by social agencies to prevent the children
slipping back into other forms of bondage and exploitation.

ASI intends to seek agreement from importers, retailers, unions and
the public for the following program:

*all importers and retailers in the main carpet buying countries
should give preference to exporters committed to carpets `free'
from exploited child labor;

*this preference should apply equally to all the exporting countries;

*importers and retailers should take responsibility for the labor
practices of their suppliers;

*as soon as a `child labor free' label is available on hand-knotted
carpets, the retailers should publicize its significance.
From: Human Rights Coordinator <hrcoord@igc.org>
Newsgroups: soc.rights.human
Date: 27 Jul 92 11:39 PDT
Subject: Human Rights Abuses in El Salvador
Nf-ID: #N:cdp:1476700281:000:836
Nf-From: cdp.UUCP!hrcoord    Jul 27 11:39:00 1992


From: Human Rights Coordinator <hrcoord>
Subject: Human Rights Abuses in El Salvador

/* Written  7:14 am  Jul 27, 1992 by nicanetny in cdp:reg.nicaragua */

9. COMMISSIONS BEGIN STUDYING HUMAN RIGHTS ABUSES IN EL SALVADOR
Three members of the Ad-Hoc Commission, which is responsible for
investigating corruption and human rights abuses by the
Salvadoran armed forces, traveled to the US on July 4 to collect
information from the State Department, Congress and the CIA. The
Commission returned July 12, giving no details but calling the
trip fruitful. [El Salvador Information Office (ESIO) Radio News
7/13/92] Meanwhile, the Truth Commission--a separate body
responsible for investigating high-profile human rights cases--
was officially established by United Nations Secretary General
Boutros Boutros Ghali on July 13. [IPS 7/14/92]
From: kumarm@topaz.ucq.edu.au
Newsgroups: soc.rights.human
Subject: human rights abuse in Bhutan
Date: 29 Jul 92 16:59:44 AET
Organization: University of Central Queensland, Australia


Hello,
	
     This is just to inquire if ther's an organization of human rights 
     Bhutan.
     
     This tiny Himalayan kingdom has expelled scores of men/women
     of Nepali origin and the tale of atocities against them is unending.
     The make shift refugee camp in Eastern Nepal is prooving to be 
     under equipped and around 500 people have died  due to unavailibity
     of basic drugs.

 

						Regerds,
						Amit.
						panta@topaz.ucq.edu.au








Xref: sparky soc.rights.human:2692 soc.culture.europe:6636 soc.culture.celtic:5245 eunet.politics:985 talk.politics.misc:36106
From: tahonen@katk.Helsinki.FI (Timo Ahonen)
Newsgroups: soc.rights.human,soc.culture.europe,soc.culture.celtic,eunet.politics,talk.politics.misc
Subject: Eire, Ireland? (Was Re: Separation vs. integration)
Date: 27 Jul 92 10:22:28 GMT
Organization: University of Helsinki, Computing Centre

In article <1992Jul24.180903.9800@news.nd.edu> ulick@chopin.helios.nd.edu (Ulick Stafford) writes:

>In article <1992Jul24.092851.20554@dscomsf.desy.de> hallam@zeus02.desy.de writes:
>>|>
>>|>Firstly, a correction.  Eire is a Gaelic word and is oncorrect (in
>>|>Irish
>>|>courts, anyway) when used in an English sentence.  
>>
>>It's what the country calls itself. The English language is known for
>>it's ability to absorb such foriegn words as `bungalow' which you would
>>have known wer you au fait with it. The Irish courts are not an arbiter
>>of the English language.
>>

>My, you are an arrogant little bastard.  We all know that the English have a
>God given right to abuse their language whatever way they think fit, e.g.
>not pronouncing r's and occasionaly h's and using vowals sounds that make
>linguists shudder, but I was trying to correct a non English speaker, a
>Finn, that Irish people do not like the word Eire, which is Gaelic, being
>used as a synomyn for the 26 counties in English sentences.  Eire means
>Ireland, which is the entire island, and is the official name for the
>country as Gaeilge and it implies a claim on the whole Ireland, and
>menas the exact same as Ireland does in English, which is the word that 
>should be used when speaking English. If you want to imply Ireland as
>the 26 counties, please use the expression `Irish republic'.

This is exactly what I originally wanted to imply in my posting: I referred 
to the Republic of Ireland as Eire since I felt that plain Ireland would 
have been taken as a geographical term, and being a lazy bugger didn't want 
to write the Republic of Ireland in full. Also this is the way Eire is 
quite often used in at least Finnish texts when the above mentioned 
distinction is wanted to be clear. As another poster wrote, also some 
dictionaries use the word in the same way. But... it sure wasn't the main 
point in my posting, so I won't argue about it any longer. The point taken 
into account.

Timo Ahonen               *  To do is to be              - Socrates  *
University of Helsinki    *  To be is to do              - Sartre    *
Finland                   *  Do be do be do              - Sinatra   *
Timo.Ahonen@Helsinki.FI   *  Be do do be do do be do do  - Silencers *
Xref: sparky soc.rights.human:2698 soc.culture.europe:6641 soc.culture.celtic:5258 eunet.politics:988 talk.politics.misc:36160