From: u907736@postoffice.utas.edu.au (Edmund Chia)
Subject: Re: China/Chua, KhengHwa/Re: An open letter to Emperor Akihito of Japan
Organization: University of Tasmania
Date: Wed, 26 Aug 1992 06:10:01 GMT

In article <ges.25.0@boris.net.com>, ges@boris.net.com (G.E. Song) writes:
> 
> In article <1992Aug24.160705.14258@natinst.com> fellow@natinst.com (Osbert Tan) writes:
> >From: fellow@natinst.com (Osbert Tan)
> >Subject: Re: China/Chua, KhengHwa/Re: An open letter to Emperor Akihito of Japan
> >Date: 24 Aug 92 16:07:05 GMT
> 
> >In article <ges.21.0@boris.net.com>, ges@boris.net.com (G.E. Song) writes:
> 
> >> 
> >> By the way, the errant chinese refered here are found in large numbers in
> >> Singapore. 
> 
> >According to a report by ABC institute of social behavior, it is proven
> >that the behavior you mentioned happen only exclusively in Singapore,
> >irrespect of race, language or religion, unlike what you have claimed.
> 
> >-Osbert
> 
> >p.s. If anybody is stupid enough (yes, I'll use that word thank you) to make 
> >bold statement as such in the net, there will be people stupid enough to 
> >actually believe it, yes Num, no ?
> 
> If you insist on calling observations made over a quarter of a century, 
> stupid, I hate to think what is clever. Only 2 of the official languages
> in Singapore are not easily understood by people who of other races. The 
> 2 languages are Tamil and Chinese (in all its varieties). I don't know 
> Tamil, so I am not in a position to comment on insults in Tamil. However, I 
> do know what is said in some of the varieties of chinese. I know malay too 
> and have heard insulting language used in malay but not in the manner used 
> by the chinese. The chinese insults are in chinese and are directed at 
> people who don't understand the language. Come on, Osbert. Where have you 
> been all these years? Your name implies that you are a chinaman too. It's no 
> use pretending. Most of the people on the net seem to be chinese. There is
> no real need to hide what is happening.
> 
> I know Dwight's postings have put many chinamen on the defensive. Initially,
> I felt defensive too. Dwight could have said what ever he wanted to say in
> a much nicer way. Perhaps, then, there won't be so many chinamen whose minds 
> have switched to defense mode. Take a step back and analyze what's been said.
> Perhaps you feel offended because you have never insulted with chinese 
> insults and you never heard anyone do it. If that is the case, I am sorry
> if I have offended you. I have never insulted anyone in chinese. However, I 
> have not been as fortunate as you because I have heard chinese insults many 
> times.I have sickend each time I heard it. I usually tell people who don't 
> speak or understand chinese that if a chinaman says something to them in 
> chinese, they should smile politely and say "Same to you" evertime.
> 
> PS.
> If you are from Singapore, then I am very surprised that you don't agree
> with what I am saying. Perhaps, you might agree with me privately 
> because it might mean a loss of the face for the chinese if you agreed on 
> the net. I can understand this behaviour. I really do sympthize with you but
> I hope you do realize the fear of "loss of face" is not going to get us 
> anywhere.

I am Singaporean and I've been sworn at in Chinese(Cantonese & Hokkien), 
Malay, English, Hindi, and Tamil and I have done so to others myself. I
spent 10 years in an 'all-boys' school and we don't use Queen's English
unless we're in class. Based on my extensive experience in the matter of
Singaporean profanity, let me reassure Mr Song that most Singaporeans and
quite a substantial number of Malaysians of non-Chinese ethnic backgrounds
understand Hokkien and Cantonese profanity. In fact, I would go so far as
to say that Hokkien profanity is the preferred medium for swearing and insults
regardless of race/ethnicity in Singapore - To verify what I've just said,
just spend some time in any male dominated social environment and listen
(we're still sexist in that Singaporean females tend not to use profanity).
As for smiling while 'insulting', I've never seen it happen and I've
lived most of my life in Singapore. However, a great deal of 'uneducated'
Chinese hawkers, taxi-drivers, etc tend to use profanity as terms of
endearment as well as 'insult' - that might account for the smiles. I do
not wish to presume that Mr Song had led a sheltered life but there are
people who say #@%* on greeting a friend before saying "How have you been?" -
or rather "Where have you been? or "Where did you come from?" since they
are Singaporeans.

Edmund
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