HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: rcm8@jaguar.uofs.edu
Newsgroups: misc.jobs.misc
Subject: Needed Information on Immigration Lawyers in NYC & Appartments for rent
Date: 20 Nov 92 19:24:30 GMT
Organization: University of Scranton

Dear Netters,
Could someone send me information on immigration lawyers in and around New York 
City. Also, I would appreciate it if someone could send me information on
appartments for rent or paying guest, in New York (Queens preferably).
Thanks in Advance.
Please send comments or information to the below email address
Ranjan Mendonsa (RCM8@jaguar.ucs.uofs.edu)
Newsgroups: misc.jobs.misc
From: mrose@prufrock.stsci.edu (Mike Rose)
Subject: Re: How dressed is "over dressed?"
Reply-To: mrose@stsci.edu
Organization: Space Telescope Science Institute
	<1992Nov20.162103.1840@falcon.aamrl.wpafb.af.mil>
Date: Sat, 21 Nov 1992 18:59:31 GMT

On 20 Nov 92 16:21:03 EST, bkottmann@falcon.aamrl.wpafb.af.mil (Brett Kottmann) said:

>	You could probably score big points with your potential boss by calling
>and expressing your concerns about intimidating people if you overdress, and
>ask what appropriate attire would be.  Shows (even more) interest and desire to
>get the job.

Is there anyone out there who would be "intimidated" by someone
interviewing in a suit?
--
Mike Rose, mrose@stsci.edu, 410-338-4949
Newsgroups: misc.jobs.misc
From: pdh@netcom.com (Phil Howard )
Subject: Re: NO PHONE CALLS PLEASE!
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services  (408 241-9760 guest) 
Date: Sun, 22 Nov 1992 21:51:51 GMT

> From: john@newave.newave.mn.org (John A. Weeks III)
> Organization: Newave Communications, Ltd, Lake Wobegon, MN
> 
> That means that if you call, you get put on my list of people not to hire.
> Similarly, if I put "please do not respond by E-mail", and you send your
> resume by E-mail, you go on the same list.  
> 
> If your resume and cover letter is good--it will be noticed.  But I simply
> do not have time for people who cannot read and follow instructions.

Are the instructions put there just as a test, or are they put there because
you legitimately can't deal with the extra work caused by such kinds of
responses (and subsequently it functions as a pretty good test)?

Given the knowledge of quite a number of people that CANNOT follow directions
in English (are they wanting a job in an English speaking environment or not?)
I could see validity in doing this just as a test.

But still, the work load problem is more likely the real cause...


> From: kuusama@kaarne.cs.tut.fi (Kuusama Juha,,,,)
> Organization: Technical University of Tampere, Dep. of Computer Science ,Finland 
> 
> I would suppose it means something like "We really have work to do
> (that's why we are hiring at the first place), and, given the current
> state of the economics, we expect a lot of answers. We do not have time
> for the potentially hundreds of phone calls. if you are interesting
> for us, we'll call you."
-- 
/***********************************************************************\
| Phil Howard  ---  KA9WGN  ---  pdh@netcom.com   |   "The problem with |
| depending on government is that you cannot depend on it" - Tony Brown |
\***********************************************************************/
From: toad@cellar.org (Tony Shepps)
Newsgroups: misc.jobs.misc
Subject: Re: New Employee Test
Date: 20 Nov 92 16:56:23 GMT
Organization: The Cellar BBS and public access system

mark@sdd.hp.com (Mark Overton) writes:

> I'm amazed when I hear that most companies DON'T test applicants!
> I'm also amazed at how incompetent most applicants are :-(
> Testing clearly reveals incompetence.

Sure it does -- when the definition of "incompetent" is "unable to pass
our test".

--
Also, I think Washington, D.C. should be destroyed.
Tony Shepps toad@cellar.org
Preferred address: toad%cellar@tredysvr.tredydev.unisys.com
Public access and thoughtful conversation:  The Cellar BBS  +1 215 654 9184
From: wb8foz@mthvax.cs.miami.edu (David Lesher)
Newsgroups: misc.jobs.misc
Subject: Re: C Guru - Six Figure Compensation
Date: 22 Nov 1992 10:56:23 -0500
Organization: NRK Clinic for habitual NetNews Abusers - Beltway Annex
Distribution: na
Reply-To: wb8foz@skybridge.scl.cwru.edu (David Lesher)
NNTP-Posting-Host: mthvax.cs.miami.edu

Others said:
>>You're posting from a .edu account, so perhaps you don't know that
>>working 60+ hours a week is sometimes required to get the job done.

>   This is a common misperception that refuses to die.  People who
>post from .edu sites aren't immune from deadlines, do actual work
>for their salaries, and have positions which can be just as varied
>as those who post from .com sites.  


More importantly, who says that people who post from
[.edu,.com,.gov,.org] sites work for or in the [.edu,.com,.gov,.org]
field at all?

The address on a person's post is [if even that - look at all of, oh
say, Bellcore's fractured and bogus heading addresses] a means to
reply to a person, not an indication of what they do, and for whom, at
what rate of pay.
-- 
A host is a host from coast to coast.....wb8foz@mthvax.cs.miami.edu 
& no one will talk to a host that's close..........................
Unless the host (that isn't close).........................pob 1433
is busy, hung or dead....................................20915-1433
Newsgroups: misc.jobs.misc
From: awells@lynx.dac.northeastern.edu (Andrew V. Wells)
Subject: Re: C Guru - Six Figure Compensation
Summary: translation from $$$speak
Organization: Northeastern University
Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1992 19:29:07 GMT

In article <1992Nov19.212813.1493@netcom.com>, glenn@netcom.com (Glenn Gribble) writes:
> 	 C Guru - Six Figure Compensation in the Heart of NYC
>        Work with one of the most selective teams on Wall Street
> 		 
      Translation from $$$speak:  We are looking for greedy, slimey
                                  jerks.

> 
>    Ability and willingness to work 60+ hours per week when required 

	New-wave indentured servitude, anyone? 


>    group for the smallest division of a large, prestigious investment
>    bank.  

         Our overlords are slimey, greedy robber-barrons.

>    Ours is a collaborative, team oriented enviornment. In our

         Do what you're told or you're fired.

                                   andy wells
          ///\\\         awells@lynx.dac.northeastern.edu
        \\\\  ////        andyphys@nuhub.northeastern.edu
          / \ ooo            
         \\ o> ///            //------ooo------\\
          //  <<<             \\oooooo---oooooo//




Newsgroups: misc.jobs.misc
From: dnelson@newssun.med.miami.edu (Dru Nelson)
Subject: Wanted: Windows Word Resume
Organization: University Of Miami, Medical School
Date: Sun, 22 Nov 1992 23:18:11 GMT

  Hello,

    Does anybody have a sharp resume in Word for Windows?
    I had a good one in Word Perfect, but it's multiple columns
    didn't translate easily.  If there are some at an ftp site,
    that is fine also.

    Thank you in advance,


Newsgroups: misc.jobs.misc
From: greg@saltydog.dpsi.com (Gregory R. Travis)
Subject: Re: C Guru - Six Figure Compensation
Organization: Data Parallel Systems, Inc
Date: Mon, 23 Nov 1992 19:54:11 GMT

In <1992Nov23.154749.10820@dsd.es.com> pmartz@dsd.es.com (Paul Martz) writes:

>I am not a scab, mercenary, or strikebreaker. I'm a salaried worker
>bee just like many of you. When my boss comes up to me and says, "when
>can you have this finished?" and I tell him "3 months", then I damn
>well better have it done in three months (provided the requirements of
>the task haven't been redefined). Part of my job is to estimate the
>work involved. If I can't estimate correctly, then I better work my
>ass off to finish it in the estimated time.

Your argument falls apart at a number of points:

First of all, you assume that your boss' question "when can you have
this finished?" is actually a question directed at you and that a correct
estimate of time required does not, necessarily, include 60-hour weeks.
With that understanding, it is not a question insomuch as he/she already
knows the answer and it's "before anyone else can have it finished or I'll
lose my job."

On a related note, imagine the following scenario:

Boss to employee "Bob": "When can you have this finished?"

Bob:  "Lessee, I think I can have it done in about six months.  You know I
just had a kid, sir, and my house needs a lot of work that I can't afford to
contract out.  Yeah, if I work 8 hours a day, 5 days a week, I should be
able to get that done in six months."

Paul: "Gee, this sounds like such a FUN and EXCITING project sir.  I like
       pizza and coffee!  I live in a condo!  I can get it done in four
       months, especially if I work weekends!"

Boss: "Bob, you're fired."

>So I work a few 60 hour
>weeks, so what? That's not a bad thing, it's kinda fun actually. Late
>night pizza and coffee, get away from the family, etc. And when it's
>over I work a few 30 hour weeks while management decides what they
>want to do with me next.

Unfortunately many don't get the option of 60 hours on project/30 hours off
project per week; for them it's 60 hours on/40 hours off.

What's really interesting is how the image of the 60+ hour/week programmer
has become "machoized" by management and how this image has been sold
downstream to programmers.  It's "cool" to work and work and work
now and a lot of programmers have bought into it and look down on those who
either cannot, are unwilling, or think it's just plain stupid to work 60 hour
weeks.

the lazy american
--
Gregory Reed Travis				D  P  S  I
Data Parallel Systems Incorporated   greg@dpsi.com (For MX mailers only!)
Bloomington, IN			     greg@indiana.edu (For the others)
Newsgroups: misc.jobs.misc
From: peterd@mechanoid.dev.cdx.mot.com (Peter Desnoyers)
Subject: Re: they really want SALARY
Organization: Motorola Codex, Canton, Massachusetts
Date: Mon, 16 Nov 1992 17:00:50 GMT

I posted to this thread a while ago, pointing out that regional differences
in salary overwhelm intra-organizational differences, and pointing out that
this makes it a bit difficult for a company to compare prospective 
employees based on current salary. (unless they restrict their search to
local people only; in that case, they don't care about getting quality
people...)

The response I got was that "everybody knows that regional differences are
small". Well, not being one to give up the chance to say "I told you so",
here are some figures from Source EDP's '92 salary survey for software
engineers:

		min	mean	max	std.
Jr. Engineer	22.2		39.6
    Engineer	30.1	38.9	50.3	5.1
Sr. Engineer	39.0	48.0	58.6	6.3

Each figure is a mean (median? they don't say) salary for one of 58 
metropolitan areas in the U.S. The average I compute above is not weighted
by population, so the useful figure is really the deviation, which sort
of tells you how far your salary is likely to change if you randomly move
somewhere else.

Anyway, I found it interesting that the highest mean salary for the lowest
position (San Jose/Silicon Valley) was higher than the lowest salary for
the highest position (Memphis/Nashville).

				Peter Desnoyers
-- 
Newsgroups: misc.jobs.misc
From: J074870@LMSC5.IS.LMSC.LOCKHEED.COM
Subject: Re: Commercial or Defense
Organization: Lockheed Missiles & Space Company, Inc.
Date: Thu, 19 Nov 92 21:29:14 GMT

------------------------- Original Article -------------------------
From: jtien@venice.eng.uci.edu (Joe Tien)
Subject: Commercial or Defense
Newsgroups: misc.jobs.misc
Reply-To: jtien@venice.eng.uci.edu (Joe Tien)
Organization: University of California, Irvine
Date: 19 Nov 92 17:36:17 GMT


Hello everyone,

Here is a general career path question in computer engineering. Assuming compara
for a commercial company versus a defense company? How about the promotions and
raises and stuff. I know there is no such thing as job security now, but some
comment on the *relative* job security between the two is also appreciated.
Lastly, in comparing job offers, what are the criteria one should consider?

Thanks very much.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
First off, I would not even consider defense unless you are looking for short
term experience.  There are just too many layoffs going on.  We have a rumor
of about 4000 going to get "wacked" in Jan/Feb of next year.
Newsgroups: misc.jobs.misc
From: gregg@ncsu.b24a.ingr.com (Gregg Phillips)
Subject: MBA program responses
Organization: Intergraph Corporation, Huntsville, AL.
Date: Wed, 18 Nov 1992 15:20:34 GMT


Following are the responses I've received from my MBA posting so far:

According to Paul Taylor:

>I am doing an MBA out of the University of Phoenix campus in
>San Jose. It is a 2.5 year program, classes are one night per week (
>4 hours long). Classes last 5 or 6 weeks. There is about 6 to 8 hours+++
>of homework per week. The program is set up for working professionals
>and is very intense. It is not recommended for new graduates.
>
>	My reasons for choosing Phoenix were
>- It was local
>- The classes fitted my lifestyle
>- I want to get more management
>
>
>One very important point, it screws your social and personal life to
>hell. You need a very understanding family.
>
>I think you also need a sense of humor.
>
>PS: I would recommend Phoenix. they also have home study and online
>access programs.
>
>	Good luck 
>
>
> Paul Taylor
>  System Software Development,
>
>  Open Systems Solutions Inc.
>	3055 Orchard Drive
>	San Jose, CA 95134-2022
>
>	Phone: 408-456-7215 
>	Fax  : 408-456-7050
>	Email: pault@ossi.com
>

According to Ivy Griffiths:

>Look at the recent issue of Business Week that reviews the B-Schools,
>then real the following issues on the letters. It seems that alot of
>folks are finding that an MBA isn't the road to success.  If you're
>already working, you might consider going to school parttime, and then
>looking for a job while you already have one.
>
>Ivy Griffiths
>
>

According to Colin Gregory-Moores

>I should mention I took a class last semester (my last semester at the
>sunny and warm UofIllinois) which had business executives come in and
>give a speech and answer questions.  There was about a 70-30% split
>saying that MBA wasn't as important as it used to be (one execVP from
>GTE(?) said that he thought MBA's are too narrowly trained these days.
>Another said he's prefer to hire people with engineering backgrounds...
>but then again most of the people who showed up were UofI engineering
>graduates, so that would be the expected bias.




I'll continue to post responses, if there's interest.

-- 
GREGG PHILLIPS (205) 730-8081 
Intergraph Corp.              
gregg@ncsu.b24a.ingr.com
From: plutchak@pilsner.geo.brown.edu (Joel Plutchak)
Newsgroups: misc.jobs.misc
Subject: Re: C Guru - Six Figure Compensation
Date: 23 Nov 1992 15:04:16 GMT
Organization: Brown University Planetary Geology
Distribution: na
NNTP-Posting-Host: pilsner.geo.brown.edu

In article <1eoaj7INNsq9@mthvax.cs.miami.edu> wb8foz@skybridge.scl.cwru.edu (David Lesher) writes:
>Others said:
>>>You're posting from a .edu account, so perhaps you don't know that
>>>working 60+ hours a week is sometimes required to get the job done.
>
>>   This is a common misperception that refuses to die.  People who
>>post from .edu sites aren't immune from deadlines, do actual work
>>for their salaries, and have positions which can be just as varied
>>as those who post from .com sites.  
>
>More importantly, who says that people who post from
>[.edu,.com,.gov,.org] sites work for or in the [.edu,.com,.gov,.org]
>field at all?
>
>The address on a person's post is [if even that - look at all of, oh
>say, Bellcore's fractured and bogus heading addresses] a means to
>reply to a person, not an indication of what they do, and for whom, at
>what rate of pay.

   You're right.  While I didn't explicitly make that point, I was
careful to use the "people who post from" wording, not "people who
work for" wording.  Given the preconceptions we're battling, I should
have made that more explicit.
--
Joel Plutchak, Research Programmer/Analyst
Newsgroups: misc.jobs.misc
From: greg@saltydog.dpsi.com (Gregory R. Travis)
Subject: Re: C Guru - Six Figure Compensation
Organization: Data Parallel Systems, Inc
Date: Sat, 21 Nov 1992 16:16:17 GMT

In <1992Nov20.201518.7089@dsd.es.com> pmartz@dsd.es.com (Paul Martz) writes:

>In article <1992Nov20.185425.21895@lynx.dac.northeastern.edu>, awells@lynx.dac.northeastern.edu (Andrew V. Wells) writes:
>> In article <1992Nov19.212813.1493@netcom.com>, glenn@netcom.com (Glenn Gribble) writes:

>> >    Ability and willingness to work 60+ hours per week when required (not 
>> >    constantly).
>>           Translation: Willingness to be a slave.

>If you're a salaried programmer and you don't get your product out the
>door on time because you leave at 5pm every day, your head will be one
>of the first to roll.

>When the time comes to put in 60+ hours is when the excitement
>happens! If you don't like it / can't cut it / think it's slavery,
>then it's time to examine career alternatives.

Occasional 60 hour weeks are one thing, but your first paragraph implies
that you're willing to put up with it as a semi-permanent feature of the
service sector workplace.  And you've bought into the management terrorism
that says "sure, 40 hours are a 'standard' workweek, and that for which we're
paying you, but if you work 'standard' hours you'll eventually be fired."

If you're the guy who's working 20 hours a week for nothing (because
you're being paid for 40 hours) while the rest of the employees want to
do something else with their lives, then you're a scab.  You're the
mercenary who's willing to underbid the other workers who're trying to
make a decent living without sacrificing the rest of their lives.  And you're
doing it only for your own short-term benefit.  You're a strikebreaker.

Let's see, 60 hours a week is 1000 hours a year more time at work than 40
hours a week (3000 hours total vs. 2000 hours*).  1000 hours are 41 24-hour
days, or 125 8-hour work days.  But you can make up for that time on your
2-week vacation.

Assuming you work for 35 years, working 60 hours a week vs. 40 a week means
you'll lose 4 extra years' worth of hours over your lifetime to work vs.
the rest of your life - 12 years of 8 hour days.  But, hey, at least you
can personally say that you've added 12 megabytes to the average X server
code, right?  Or, perhaps, you've written some really great network code
during that "extra" 12 years.  Too bad that 12 years after you're dead,
chances are that some other young para-burnout will have obsoleted
all your hard work.

*2000 hours is about the norm for the average American worker.
 Your average Frenchperson puts in around 1600 hour a year.

greg, the lazy american
--
Gregory Reed Travis				D  P  S  I
Data Parallel Systems Incorporated   greg@dpsi.com (For MX mailers only!)
Bloomington, IN			     greg@indiana.edu (For the others)
Newsgroups: misc.jobs.misc
From: cn659@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Paul R. Sadowski)
Newsgroups: misc.jobs.misc
Subject: Canadian Colleges & University Addresses
Date: 19 Nov 1992 09:30:09 GMT
Organization: Case Western Reserve University, Cleveland, Ohio (USA)
NNTP-Posting-Host: thor.ins.cwru.edu


I am trying to put together a list of Postal addresses of Canadian
colleges & universities with communications departments. 
   
Email replies would be greatly appreciated. (Contact names would be
great, too!)
   
Thanks...
Newsgroups: misc.jobs.misc
From: billd@gdstech.GRUMMAN.COM (Bill D'Camp)
Subject: Re: New Employee Test 
Followup-To: misc.jobs.misc
Organization: Grumman Corporation
	<722481381snx@whizbang.wariat.org>
Date: Mon, 23 Nov 1992 17:23:29 GMT

I don't know about New York specifically, despite what it might show
in my mail header I work and live in San Diego.  I have worked for
defense contractors for a lot of years and on several occassions the
question of why none of them give pre-employment tests has come up. I
have been told that such tests are not given because of the potential
for problems with EEOC.  By EEOC rules every company doing business
with the U.S government wishing to test potential employees must keep
complete records of all testing, ALL potential employees must be
tested, all tests must be evaluated and certified to show that the
test is not discriminatory in nature, and the test MUST be used in
determining which person to hire.  As a result most companies feel
that there is too much expense involved doing testing, and too much
risk of being sued for EEOC or Affirmative Action violations.  Just
think, under these rules, and depending on the size of the company,
you could a person (or several people) fulltime just to keep the
records, administer the tests and evaluate the results.  

I have never seen any of these rules in writing, I have just been told
that this is the case by people that I have worked for/with at several
different defense contracting companies.

--
    _   /|
    \`o_O'
      ( )    Aachk! Phft!
       U     billd@gdstech.grumman.com
"All opinions expressed herein are my own, they do not represent the
opinions of my employer."

-- 
    _   /|
    \`o_O'
      ( )    Aachk! Phft!
       U     billd@gdstech.grumman.com
Xref: sparky misc.jobs.misc:7756 misc.jobs.offered:13809 misc.jobs.resumes:6543 misc.jobs.contract:4173
From: ciarfela@sigma.ece.ucsb.EDU (Paul Ciarfella)
Newsgroups: misc.jobs.misc
Subject: Re: lost winter jacket
Date: 21 Nov 92 01:08:21 GMT
Reply-To: ciarfela@sigma.ece.ucsb.EDU (Paul Ciarfella)
Organization: University of California Santa Barbara


   Sorry, its not here, we don't have winter jackets in Santa Barbara.

   Paul C

   (I couldn't resist)
From: jkapson@ad-29.Naitc.Com (John Kapson)
Subject: Re: C Guru - Six Figure Compensation
Organization: AC Nielsen Co., Bannockburn IL
Date: Fri, 20 Nov 92 22:04:10 GMT

In article <1992Nov20.214332.17041@news.vanderbilt.edu> Frank Sayre <sayre@ctrvax.vanderbilt.edu> writes:
[snip]
>>You're posting from a .edu account, so perhaps you don't know that
>>working 60+ hours a week is sometimes required to get the job done. If
>>you're a salaried programmer and you don't get your product out the
>>door on time because you leave at 5pm every day, your head will be one
>>of the first to roll.
>>
>>When the time comes to put in 60+ hours is when the excitement
>>happens! If you don't like it / can't cut it / think it's slavery,
>>then it's time to examine career alternatives.
>
>I'm completely with you, Paul.  However, I would like to correct the
>impression you leave that people who work in the .edu world are all
>clock watchers able and ready to leave at 5:00. 
>
>I know plenty of people in research and academic support put in their 
>share of 55, 65, and 75 hour work weeks, and straight 30 hour stints 
>at deadline time. And find much the same exhilaration that you do. So, 
>our worlds may have more in common than you may be aware.

Not to mention, not all those who post from .edu accounts are students
or academicians.  I still maintain accounts at UofMich and occasionally
post from there, even though I've been in the RealWorld(tm) for several
years and have put in my share of 60 hour weeks.

+-----------------------+-----------------------------------------------+
|      John Kapson      |                                               |
| NRA               ILA |  "Fear a goverment that fears your guns."     |
| jkapson@nis.naitc.com |                                               |
+-----------------------+-----------------------------------------------+
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Newsgroups: misc.jobs.misc