HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: robertl@luciano.Stanford.EDU (Robert Lodenkamper)
Subject: Re: the b-word
Organization: Stanford University
	<1992Jul22.131540.19509@hemlock.cray.com>
	<1992Jul22.233031.25928@macc.wisc.edu>
Date: 22 Jul 92 17:39:00

In article <1992Jul22.233031.25928@macc.wisc.edu> anderson@macc.wisc.edu (Jess Anderson) writes:

   In article <1992Jul22.131540.19509@hemlock.cray.com>
   steven@cray.com (Steven Levine) writes:

   Steven provides a vey useful addition to the discussion.
   The thoughts that struck me most strongly relate to the
   empowerment *we* get from such a epithet:

   >The best part is that it doesn't matter at all if we ever
   >call anyone a "breeder." I, for one, can't imagine a
   >situation where I would.  But there the word is, ready to
   >provide a focus for our anger.

   And this is avery important part: we don't actually have to
   *use* the term to derive a constructive effect from it.  Ad
   Arnold points out, using it *against* "them" probably
   doesn't do much (and you can see how upset some people get),
   but it can do lots *for us*.

A specialized meaning for the term "breeder" is being used here, such
that it doesn't mean what one would logically think it means - namely
anyone with offspring.  Therefore, the term "breeder" is not very
useful for communication --- it seems rather to be more of a
rhetorical device than a means of communication.

If I wanted to explain to a hostile why I felt threatened, I would not
say "You are a breeder."  I would say "You are my enemy because you
are killing and hurting me and mine."  The latter statement is an
attempt to communicate, the former is not.

Like many epithets, the term "breeder" is used to summarily classify
and dismiss from consideration entire groups of people.  Perhaps
"breeder" is more popular than the simpler and arguably more accurate
"enemy" because it is specific to our situation in a way that "enemy"
is not.  Anyone can rant and rave about their enemies; only we can
rant and rave about "those breeders".

Nevertheless, I personally prefer to be as pedantically accurate as I
can when engaging in the disagreeable task of summarily writing off
groups of people, and prefer to think in terms of "enemies" rather
than "breeders."  Naturally, I would not presume to speak for anyone
else on this point.

- Bob
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: emcmanus@gr.osf.org (Eamonn McManus)
Subject: Re: Well, God Damn It! SPILL THE BEANS!
Organization: Open Software Foundation Research Institute, Grenoble
Date: Thu, 30 Jul 1992 09:51:37 GMT

thaaang@cwis.unomaha.edu (John Dorrance) writes:
>>Anyway, I had a great time at the con, and I, too, will post a retrospective
>>as soon as my head stops spinning from all that I've experienced.  
>Me too, me too.

Bastards bastards bastards bastards.

,
Eamonn, who was not there and is jealous.

PS: Did I mention you are all bastards?  Bastards.
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: ry@cbnewsl.cb.att.com (ryerson.schwark)
Subject: Re: the b-word
Organization: UNIX System Laboratories, Summit, NJ
Date: Wed, 22 Jul 1992 15:47:54 GMT

In article <1992Jul22.125050.18303@watson.ibm.com> jakec@ralvmm.vnet.ibm.com (Jake Coughlin) writes:
>ry@cbnewsl.cb.att.com (ryerson.schwark):
>>>ry, would you like to raise a brat with me?
>> 
>> For you, my *RED* *HEADED* *STUD*, I would wear polyester, and shop at
>> Kmart.
>
>my darling, i was talking about raising a child not social suicide
>although i can understand how you got confused.  anyway, if you did,
>i'd retract the offer, my *NASTY* *VILE* *KKKRUELLA*.  :-)

Oh, that's a relief, I was afraid you were going to make me degrade
myself in public to win your affections.  :-)

Ry Schwark
ry@usl.com
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: asuccop@milton.u.washington.edu (Annemarie Succop)
Subject: motss.com
Organization: University of Washington
Date: Thu, 30 Jul 1992 03:37:07 GMT

	only *three* women showed to motss.con & you're thinking
	it's 'just' white male guilt??

	i didn't go more 'coz my housemate has the car & 'coz the ppl
	i would have considered going with didn't really get it together
	than 'coz there'd be no chicks.

	i like dudes, too, tho.

	annemarie, up here in seattle
	asuccop@u.washington.edu
	
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: joe@spdcc.com (Joseph Francis)
Subject: Hellacious Quote-file fodder
Organization: S.P. Dyer Computer Consulting, Cambridge MA
Date: Thu, 30 Jul 1992 16:56:11 GMT

 "So long as the people do not care to exercise their freedom, those
 who wish to tyrannize will do so..."
					 Voltairine de Cleyre

 "Grunt the fucking love from your crotch before it kills."
					 Anonymous Graffiti

 "If any man's seed of copulation go out from him, he shall wash."
					 Leviticus 15:18

 "There is only one good - knowledge; and one evil - ignorance."
					 Socrates

 "Gospel: Signifies news. The good news that the gospel of the
 Christians came to announce to them that their God is a God of wrath,
 that he has predestined the far greater number of them to hell-file,
 that their happines depends on their pious imbecility, their holy
 credulity, their sacred ravings, on the evil they do to one another
 through hatred of one for another ... and on their antipathy for and
 persecution of all who do not agree with them or resemble them."
					 Voltaire

 "But I always say one's company, two's a crowd, three's a party."
					 Andy Warhol

 "O foul magnificence! Sublime disgrace!"
					 Charles Baudelaire

 "Don't put no constrictions on da people. Leave 'em ta hell alone."
					 Jimmy Durante

 "The mark of a hard-core shit is that he has to be right."
					 William Burroughs

 "And it came to pass that the soul of Jonathon was with the soul of
 David and he loved him as his own soul. And the soul of David was with
 Jonathan and he loved him as his own soul. And Jonathon and David made
 a covenant. And Jonathan stripped himself of the robe that was on him
 and gave it to david, and his garments, even to his sword and to his
 bow and to his girdle ... Jonathon, Saul's son, delighted much in
 David."
					 Samuel I, 18:19

 "A Homosexual Couple. An openly professed homosexual couple should be
 considered a social entity and be invited to social functions on one
 invitiation. Their names would be listed alphabetically on separate
 lines."
					 Amy Vanderbilt

-----

From: 
Straight to Hell
The Manhattan Review of Unnatural Acts
P.O. Box 20424
NYC 10023 USA

one of the original "'Zines", around for what seems more than a
-- 
US Jojo; damp, slighly soiled, but tasty nonetheless.
Xref: sparky soc.motss:33143 talk.politics.misc:36630 alt.individualism:4757 alt.activism:13744
From: mpolen@gelato.mips.com (Michael Polen)
Newsgroups: soc.motss,talk.politics.misc,alt.individualism,alt.activism
Subject: Re: On Banning Private Discrimination
Date: 30 Jul 1992 16:39:56 GMT
Organization: MIPS Computer Systems, Inc.
Distribution: world
NNTP-Posting-Host: gelato.mips.com

In article <RJBODKIN.92Jul30115721@maimonides.lcs.mit.edu>, rjbodkin@theory.lcs.mit.edu (Ronald Bodkin) writes:
|> In article <1992Jul24.212423.7178@news2.cis.umn.edu> elliott@a8.ima.umn.edu (Frank Elliott) writes:
|>    Are you saying the fact that swm's benefit unfairly from this inequality is
|>    of no importance?  Isn't receiving stolen goods a criminal act if the recipient
|>    is aware that they were stolen?
|> 
|> 	The appropriate analogy is having a competitor's business
|> burned down by thugs.  It is clearly criminal if _you_ do it, but if
|> you are not involved, you will probably benefit and that is not
|> criminal.  The whole point is that moral culpability requires some
|> volitional action.
|> 
But if the business person, through inaction, allows thugs to get away
with burning the businesses of his competitors, that is volitional
action (or volitional inaction).  Selective enforcement of laws and selective
imposement of penalties is, or should be, illegal.  I thought this was why we
have civil rights laws.

	mike
From: stine@Stars.Reston.Unisys.COM (John P. Stine x7381)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: "Reverse" discrimination by NAGAAA
Keywords: Discrimination, NAGAAA
Date: 28 Jul 92 11:15:13 GMT
Reply-To: stine@Stars.Reston.Unisys.COM (John P. Stine)
Followup-To: soc.motss
Organization: Paramax Systems Corporation, Reston, VA

In article <1992Jul28.044049.8144@midway.uchicago.edu> rivk@midway.uchicago.edu writes:
>In article <1672@aviary.Stars.Reston.Unisys.COM> stine@stars.reston.unisys.com (John P. Stine) writes:
>>One of NAGAAA's bylaws states that heterosexual individuals may
>>not participate in NAGAAA events.
>How could they tell? Maybe straights could try their hand at 'passing'.
>What about bisexuals; are we allowed? Just curious...

Indeed, one straight player just signed the form as "bisexual" to
avoid the problem.  A few players don't want to lie about it, I suppose.
Bisexuals are, of course, part of the family, and are welcomed warmly
to NAGAAA functions.
Newsgroups: soc.motss,soc.bi
From: balistik@big-brother.nevada.edu (Shawn Hicks)
Subject: Re: Leaving for the con! Be back in 10 days!
Organization: Not yet, but we're working on it...
Date: Fri, 31 Jul 1992 18:13:02 GMT

In article <1992Jul31.135237.19754@cbnewsl.cb.att.com>, ry@cbnewsl.cb.att.com (ryerson.schwark) writes:
>In article <1992Jul30.225852.7896@nevada.edu> balistik@big-brother.nevada.edu (Shawn Hicks) writes:
>>
>>>...and do *I* have stories to tell about the 'con! :-)
>>
>>Not about me....  I was a good boy. Ask Grandma K!
>
>Sit.  SIT!  good doggie.  now behave or we'll have to use the muzzle.

The muzzle? Cooool!  I can still feel the collar you put on me..... 


Shawn

Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: aap@next03wor.wam.umd.edu (Alberto Adolfo Pinkas)
Subject: Re: On Banning Private Discrimination
Organization: Workstations at Maryland, University of Maryland, College Park
Date: Tue, 28 Jul 1992 21:07:15 GMT

>In article <1992Jul24.171336.24814@amhux2.amherst.edu>,  
twpierce@amhux1.amherst.edu (Tim Pierce) writes:

>Yes.  If they do not actively and visibly reject it and work to eliminate
>it, every minute of every day, you are recreating it and are to blame for
>it.  Becuase you benefit from it, you are more responsible to fix it than
>thise who are not.  Are you too stupid to understand the difference
>between responsibility and blame?

However, lets suppose that there is a white-heterosexual-male who actively  
opposes segregation and all the other things. He still is a  
white-heterosexual-male. And, if we keep generalization, he is still to  
blame for what he is working to change.

AAP
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: thaaang@odin.unomaha.edu (John Dorrance)
Subject: Re: the b-word
Organization: University of Nebraska at Omaha
Date: Tue, 21 Jul 1992 08:58:45 GMT

shore@dinah.tc.cornell.edu (Melinda Shore) writes:

>[]
>In article <nhum02k@fido.asd.sgi.com>, dauber@sgi.com (Jeff Dauber) writes:
>> I tend to use breeder to describe a particular type of heterosexual.  These
>> are the "baby" people who tell you everything about their child, their
>> children's baseball stats, the baby shower, how wonderful babies are, etc.
>  
>> I guess I nicer term would be "baby-centric heterosexual".

>How about 'tiresome bore' or 'one-to-be-avoided?'

>Say, have I shown you the latest pictures of my horse?


God, I hate trainers.

--
John Dorrance    ** Disco Diva y Flamenco Chico **    thaaang@odin.unomaha.edu

		I always thought of you as my brick wall
		   Built like an angel, six feet tall.
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: sbgreene@phoenix.Princeton.EDU (Steven Greene)
Subject: Gay Eagle Scout files suit against Boy Scouts
Originator: news@ernie.Princeton.EDU
Organization: Princeton University
Date: Wed, 29 Jul 1992 13:56:28 GMT

An article with the title in the above subject line appeared in
clari.local.new_jersey (but not other clari groups) this morning.

James Dale, an Eagle Scout, is suing the BSA for kicking him out
after a photo of him at a gay event appeared in a local newspaper.
His story has previously appeared (briefly) in the Wall Street
Journal and (not quite so breifly) in NYQ (now QW) magazine.

Today's article suggests that he is suing under New Jersey's Law
Against Discrimination, which was recently amended to prohibit
discrimination on the basis of sexual orientation.  I'm a little
confused by this because he was kicked out BEFORE the law was
amended.  However, if they can bring suit under this law, the BSA
may have trouble because the case law in New Jersey suggesting that the 
BSA is a public accommodation is much clearer than in other states 
where the BSA has been sued (in my humble layperson's opinion).
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: lfoard@Turing.ORG (Lawrence C. Foard)
Subject: Re: HIV- cases of full blown AIDS?
Organization: The Turing Project, Charlottesville Virginia.
Date: Tue, 21 Jul 1992 16:40:25 GMT

In article <1992Jul21.060449.1277@reed.edu> nelson@reed.edu (Nelson Minar) writes:
>In article <1992Jul21.004753.9148@murdoch.acc.Virginia.EDU> lfoard@Turing.ORG (Lawrence C. Foard) writes:
>
>>Unfortunitly the more frightening possibility is probably the truth,
>>my guess is that HIV has mutated to a form thats not being recognized
>>by the current tests. Since HIV takes 5 years or longer to have an
>>effect this new version has probably been spreading unoticed for 1/2 a
>>decade.
>
>Larry, do you have any evidence at all for this? 

I said possibility not that it definitly was. Its of course possible
that these cases are unrelated to HIV.

>Or are you just
>spreading random AIDS hysteria? 

HIV has already developed several strains in its short history, its not
hysteria to warn of the serious danger that further mutations could
make it more contagious.

>Are you going to explain how AIDS is
>germ warfare from the US government next?

We would be better off if it was, atleast then it might not evolve so
quickly.

>AIDS is a disease. Diseases need to be understood and explained by
>facts, not unfounded supposition.

Evolution is a fact (contrary to what the fundies think), I see no reason
to believe that HIV has stopped evolving only a decade or so after 
infecting humans.

>AIDS is a social phenomenon. It is an example of the apalling lack of
>compassion of the government of the United States of America. The
>facts are strong enough to convict the Reagan administration of
>inhumanity; 

Well I won't disagree here, even if HIV was perfectly stable and had
no danger of evolving the current policy of ignoring it is nothing
short of disgusting.

>you don't need to spread unsupported rumours.

These arn't rumors this is front page news.

>>[An article] said that the heterosexual AIDS epidemic in Africa is not
>>just a matter of STD's as had been thought before, but is infact a new
>>more contagious form of HIV.
>
>where did you see this article, and exactly what did it say?

USA TODAY page 1 (top of page)

 [first part of article]
 "
   This raises the possibility that, under the right conditions the 
  virus can adapt itself.
   The findings reported by the centers for disease control, could
  help explain why heterosexual transmission is common in Africa and
  Thailand, and relativily uncommon in areas like the USA, says
  Harvard's Max Essex.
 "

>-- 
>                __
>nelson@reed.edu \/                                        All things are true


-- 
>>Unix/C Contract worker available 5 years C/unix work experience<<  ______
Available for Telecommuting/Travel and contracts on the T Line       \    /
in the Boston MA area. Send me e-mail for a copy of my Resume.        \  /
       -- VWIS 508-793-9568 (2400 baud), Linux support BBS.--          \/
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: hsu@sp24.csrd.uiuc.edu (William Tsun-Yuk Hsu)
Subject: Re: Editor-in-Chief of THE ADVOCATE Resigns!
Organization: UIUC Center for Supercomputing Research and Development
Date: Tue, 28 Jul 92 22:44:49 GMT

nelson@reed.edu (Nelson Minar) writes:

>It's really too bad that Outweek is gone. Are there no replacements?

There's Queer Week (or QW), formerly NYQ. I can't get it in town
regularly (that's town as in Champaign, not Chicago; tho sometimes
I get confused about where I live myself), so I can't say how
up-to-date the news coverage is. But QW is like a grownup version
of Outweek, with some nice articles. It's a bit NYC-centered, but
so was Outweek.

For reasonably up-to-date l/g/b news, there's Pacifica radio's This
Way Out. I'm sure there's a hip radio station in Portland that runs it.
(After all, we run it in Champaign, and get lots of support for it.)

Bill
From: mdrayton@hpmwtd.sr.hp.com (Mike Drayton)
Date: Thu, 23 Jul 1992 21:09:37 GMT
Subject: Re: Unitarian Universalists vote pro-LGB
Organization: HP Santa Rosa Site (NMD MTA MWTD)
Newsgroups: soc.motss

 lfoard@Turing.ORG (Lawrence C. Foard) writes:

>So how can we join :)
       
----------
It's pretty damn easy, but you've got to find one first (look in your
local phone book).  Then stop in on Sundays for a while to see if you
hear anything that makes sense to you.

Depending on the particular congregation, you may find an active and
visible gay membership, or you may not.  Each Unitarian-Universalist 
church has to do its own "homework" on helping GLBO people feel at home,
and some do better than others.  The U-U's have been passing pro-gay
resolutions at the continental level since 1969, but the attitudes
of individuals vary, of course. 

I have identified as Unitarian all my life, and upon getting
re-involved with the church, I decided that if it were to have any
real value to me, I would have to be able to be completely out.  
This experiment is going well for me.  You'll have to try it for 
yourself.

Mike Drayton
mdrayton@sr.hp.com
Newsgroups: soc.motss,talk.politics.misc,alt.individualism,alt.activism
From: portuesi@tweezers.esd.sgi.com (Michael Portuesi)
Subject: Re: On Banning Private Discrimination
Organization: Silicon Graphics Inc.
Date: Thu, 23 Jul 92 21:05:05 GMT

In article <nlkrssk@fido.asd.sgi.com>, dauber@sgi.com (Jeff Dauber) writes:
|> In article <1992Jul23.013635.22037@ncar.ucar.edu>
|> gary@isis.cgd.ucar.edu (Gary Strand) writes:
|> 
|> >  Basically, just because I'm a white het male doesn't
|> >  mean you can tar me with the same brush as you do
|> > other individuals who happen to be white,
|> >  het, and male.
[...]
|> >  Defensive? You bet.
|> 
[...]
|> There is one group of people who frighten me more than
|> any other (if I see them on the street, I will get the
|> fuck into a safe place):  heterosexual males between
|> the ages of 16 and 25.

Which reminds me of the dinner I had with my friend Robert
last week, who told me about a friend of his who was
attacked by a dozen heterosexual males between 16 and
25 (in this case, with a keg of beer in the back of the
truck) and brutally beaten for being gay.  This person
spent the better part of a day in surgery, while the
doctors attempted to stitch together and rejoin his
internal organs.

Maybe if you lived in a situation where brutal beatings
were a reality for not only you but also your friends, you
might have at least some small basis for understanding
the points Jeff is trying to make in this discussion.

m.

-- 
Michael Portuesi   Silicon Graphics, Inc.   portuesi@sgi.com
From: gklein@uoft02.utoledo.edu (Gary Klein, bear at heart)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: How to get equity in insurance coverage?
Date: 29 Jul 92 19:12:28 EST
Organization: Carlson Library, Univ of Toledo

In article <1992Jul27.195034.9994@access.digex.com>, thom@access.digex.com 
   (The Elf-Lad) writes:
> My company is fairly gay-positive, and includes sexual orientation in
> its non-discrimination clause. 
> 
> The company pays 100% of each employee's health insurance. They
> will also pay 50% for insuring spouses and dependents of employees.

> Today, he came to my office, and said that it was not possible;
> our insurer (Blue Cross of Washington, DC) will not insure anyone
> other than spouses and dependents of employees. 

     READ THAT AGAIN-- Blue Cross of DC will not insure, Blue Cross of DC COULD
INSURE, but there is NOTHING illegal about insuring spouses (heter or homo).

     Some insurance companies have raised the claim that it would be illegal to
do so, but they in fact ARE LYING THROUGH THEIR TEETH.

     Try contacting the Employee Benefits Dept of the CITY OF San Francisc/Cali
and the  CITY OF Ann Arbor/Mich, since seem to recall that they actuall
received insurance coverage when some underwriters refused to give them a
quote.

> He said that the
> company does not consider the policy inequitable, since they would
> do it if they could, but that married people "deserve" this benefit
> because many of them would be unable to work otherwise.
 
     Ask your boss if he can say the words SELF-INSURANCE!  They can do it if
they WANT TO.  I remember that one city/corporate employer had difficulty in
finding a medical insurance carrier who would write a Domestic Partner's
Policy, they even had trouble with Self-Insurance, since it is often done in
co-operation with a medical insurance company (even though the employer sets up
the funding & policy limits, as the Insurance Co's have all of the computer
fire power & checks/balances already in place).

     If you don't ask for it, you won't get it!

P.S.  Thom, what do you mean that you are the ONLY gay employee?
      When the reality is that you do not KNOWINGLY know any other
      gay employees of that firm.  You never know where we might be!
-- 

                                               "Librarian, Leather bound"
Gary Klein,   Business Librarian,  (Univ of Toledo)           * * * * 
PO Box 12650                  Toledo OH  43606-0250            *   *   
(w): 419-537-2629      fac2813@uoft01                            *   
(h): 419-243-2740      fac2813@uoft01.utoledo.edu         B4 t+ w- g s+ k
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: dyer@spdcc.com (Steve Dyer)
Subject: Re: the darkness in my heart
Organization: S.P. Dyer Computer Consulting, Cambridge MA
Date: Tue, 21 Jul 1992 21:31:58 GMT

In article <1992Jul21.194658.6887@cbnewsl.cb.att.com> ry@cbnewsl.cb.att.com (ryerson.schwark) writes:
>We were here.  We have always been here.  Since before time was counted
>we have been here, walkers between worlds.  Shamans, Perverts, Godesses,
>Heretics, Healers, and more.  Our ancient eyes watch as they always
>have, and we stood next to you with arms outstreched waiting for you to
>open your terror-striken eyes and reach out to us.

No, no, no!  This is soc.motss: "Krystal Carrington",
not "Gnu-age Crystals".

-- 
Steve Dyer
dyer@ursa-major.spdcc.com aka {ima,harvard,rayssd,linus,m2c}!spdcc!dyer
From: bfbear@penn.Gwinnett.COM (Penn Collins)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: RFD: Still in print?
Date: 24 Jul 92 17:02:30 GMT

dyer@spdcc.com (Steve Dyer) writes:

> In article <1992Jul23.214009.27549@tc.cornell.edu> shore@tc.cornell.edu write
> >> A new issue is being worked on by a group of Chicago Faeries. (No, I'm
> >> not one of them, I just ummm know a few of them.)
> >I thought RFD was for rural gay men?
> 
> It's for rural gay male wanna-bes, too.
> 
> Mostly rural gay male wanna-bes who never got the excitement of
> putting together an "experimental" high school magazine out of
> their systems when they were in high school.
        at least they ARE publishing- isn't diversity the key to the lesbigay
        community? sure, its not for my taste- but obviously someone is reading
        and supporting the magazine...
> _Hippie Dick_ is even worse.  Not enough "Hippie" or "Dick"
> for my taste.

        I found it sort of amusing, the issue I saw had what looked
        like a nude Charles Mason lookalike in it...
        (oh, the publisher/editor used to work for Bear (TM-not!)
From: henry@ADS.COM (Henry Mensch)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: new hankie codes?
Date: 25 Jul 92 19:43:05 GMT
Organization: Advanced Decision Systems; a div of Booz, Allen & Hamilton

pst@csd4.csd.uwm.edu (Peter Stephen Thomas Iii) wrote: 
->Well, I'm hoping that those two were straight boys.  The idea of someone
->advertising themselves as a bondage Top or piercing Top at the age of 18 (or
->possibly younger)  gives me the shivers and NOT from excitment!!

why?  because you weren't this self-aware at age 18, or because you
aren't this self-aware now?

--
# henry mensch / booz, allen & hamilton, inc.  / <henry@ads.com>