From: aaldoubo@copper.denver.colorado.edu (Anisa Alnoor Aldoubosh)
Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast
Subject: Re: CLINTON SPEECH TEXT: RABIN MEETING
Date: 28 Aug 92 17:54:56 GMT
Organization: University of Colorado at Denver

In article <BtMH14.FMo.2@cs.cmu.edu> anwar+@cs.cmu.edu (Anwar Mohammed) writes:
>In article <3636@copper.Denver.Colorado.EDU> aaldoubo@copper.denver.colorado.edu (Anisa Alnoor Aldoubosh) writes:
>
>>Does those 'constitutionally mandated elections' include opponents of
the monarchial regime?  Is the 'Press' allowed 'to freely discuss issues
related' to criticism of the corruption of the monarchial, non-Islamic,
and authoritative regime?
>
>Not entirely, but, it provides a damn sight more freedom than you'll find in 
>any other Arab state.

Really?  On what comparison and/or basis?  Freedom of what?

>>Are the majority of people just content with the newest in Mercedes Benz,
and Cadillacs?  Shopping for the latest style in 28 carat gold?  Counting
their interest in the bank?  Or of the tragedies and extremities of poverty
in the Arab and Muslim world?  Or supporting a government that calls on
world?  Of supporting a government that calls on another nation to defend
it?  
>
>Yes, when their "brothers and sisters" who they have supported morally and
>financially for decades respond to their calls for help with jeers against
>them and cheers for the man who is brutally raping, pillaging, and massacring
>the state of Kuwait and its people.

Can you prove this?

>  Yes, when they are coldly betrayed by the 
>people they helped the most. Yes, whenthey have spent billions more on poverty 
>and development in the Arab and Muslim world (as I and others have documented 
>extensively here

Kuwait gave financial aid towards their own political agenda and interests.
And according to a few sources, Kuwait extends *loans* - KFAED - to Arab,
African, and Asian governments, mainly for power, transportation, and
agriculture.


>With friends like this, !YES!, Kuwait sought outside help.

We shouldn't be surprised given that they have always kowtowed to the
West.  They were just too weak and soft to do anything for themselves.
While they paid off America and individual American soldiers, the other
Arab countries that came to Kuwait's rescue, like Syria and Egypt, the
men didn't recieve a thank you or a single cent to be forced in the
middle of the conflict.
 
>You are a liar, Anisa.  Until you provide some proof or evidence or 
>documentation of your claims that Kuwaitis are all greedy and haven't 
>given anything to the Arab or Muslim world, you will remain a liar.

Anwar, I never said that *all* Kuwaitis are greedy.  I am not a bigot
and do not blatanly hate anyone out of pure anger or hatred.  I just
dispise their actions, double standards, and pseudeness of being an
Islamic government.  I hope that they will change and be an example to
the Arab world not because of their wealth index, but their humanity
and decency, which, at this point is lacking very severely.  And it
would be very presumtuous for me to judge everyone - after all I
know that there are *still* some good Muslims there.  I never stated
that Kuwait never gave any money to the Arab leaders, and that did not
benefit their political interests and advantage.  I have generally
criticized the Kuwaiti government first, for being so corrupt and in
NOT distributing the wealth to benefit Muslim *people* around the
world.  They haven't and if you can prove with documentation otherwise,
*you* stand corrected.  BTW, who ever said that the oil and revenues of
such - being Kuwait's only natural resource - are EXCLUSIVELY Kuwait's
and the Al-Sabah family's?  I criticize the people - from what we see
and hear from the media and from individual experiences - because of
their shallowness and non-sensitivity to Muslim people around the
world who are suffering while they indulge themselves in cars, jewelry,
and other luxuries while people in Egypt are homeless and cannot even
afford to eat.  That is the fact and that is what I, and others, are
enfuriated by - not because we are jealous.

But how do we measure the above?  Would you like to make a comparison
based on GNP level?  Well, I did a little research on the matter and
came up with the following facts.  You then tell me what I am saying
is a lie:

----------------------------------------------------------------------
COUNTRY		POPULATION 		GNP		INFLATION RATE
----------------------------------------------------------------------

Qatar		   328,000	$17,070 / $ 5.4 B.		9%

U.A.E.		 1,980,000	$11,900 / $22.0 B.		N/A

** Kuwait	 1,938,000	$ 9,040 / $16.9 B.		1%

Bahrain		   480,900	$ 8,110 / $ 4.6 B.		2.8%

Saudi Arabia	15,452,000	$ 6,030 / $85   B.		10%

Oman		 1,265,000	$ 5,900 / $ 7.5 B.		N/A

Yemen		 2,425,000	$   500 / $ 1.1 B.		16%


** GNP dropped from $25,000 in 1983 to $9,000 in 1988.  Has a 
reserve fund of $80 Billion.


Now lets look at the other Arab countries:


Algeria		25,063,000	$ 2,570 / $57   B.		11%
 
Iraq		17,600,000	$ 2,400 / $40   B.		25%

Jordan		 2,850,000	$ 2,070 / $ 5.5 B.		1%

Syria		11,570,000	$ 1,970 / $20.3 B.		17.4%

Egypt		51,205,000	$ 1,260 / $30   B.		22.6%

Tunis		 7,738,000	$ 1,230 / $ 9.3 B.		3.5%

Lebanon		 2,674,000	$ 1,150 / $ 3   B.		400%

Morocco		24,976,000	$   510 / $11.9 B.		8.7%

Sudan		24,188,000	$   361 / $ 7.3 B.		80%


Also non-Arab countries:

Israel		 4,929,000	$ 7,900 / $21   B.		48%

Iran		51,924,000	$ 1,667 / $75   B.		20-25%

----------------------------------------------------------------------

This was from 1990, obviously the figures have increased and/or
decreased a lot.  I also wanted you to know that if you judge
Kuwait on the basis of being democratic because it is a constitutional
monarchy, and thus better than the other countries in the Arab world,
I would remind you that Morocco is also a constitutional monarchy.

If you want to judge democracy on the standards of suffrage, the
following figures might also surprise you:


No suffrage in:  Oman, Qatar, Saudi Arabia, Bahrain, and U.A.E. (prohibits
		 political parties, like Kuwait and Bahrain).

Suffrage in:

		Lebanon - 21+  Males and females
		Syria   - 18+  UniversaL
		Jordan	- 20+  Universal
		Iraq	-      Universal for all adults

		Egypt	- 18+  Universal
		Algeria - 18   Universal
		Morocco - 20+  Universal
		Tunis	- 21+  Universal
		Libya	-      Universal for all adults

		Yemen	- 18+  All citizens
		Iran	- 15+  Universal
	

>I haven't made *any* comment on the Middle East Peace talks since your
>ridiculous tirades against Kuwaitis.  From then on, I have had no interest 
>in the Peace talks other than to assure a guarantee of peace for Kuwait 
>from its foes (and 'friends'), just as you have no interest in anyone
>else's well being but your own.

That isn't true.  I care very much for Palestinians foremost, but
with all Muslims in general despite their nationality.  It is just
that the Palestinians are, and should be, at the heart of the matter
first, given their situation.

You are just making excuses for your lack of caring towards anyone
except yourself and to justify your government's actions.  What's
the matter, can't take a little criticism and honesty?  You have
to fight back with insults, and a superlative attitude?  The facts
don't change until *you* do, Anwar.  Live by the words you are
so famous for - change what is in your own backyard first.

Anisa

	"Men have been eluded by the female psyche
	 since the beginning of time."
				The Butcher's Wife
Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast