HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: an6034@anon.penet.FI
Newsgroups: comp.os.vms
Subject: C problem
Date: 20 Jan 93 14:51:44 GMT
Organization: Anonymous contact service

X-Anon-To: INFO-VAX@SRI.COM

Hi VAX/VMS experts.

I have a very simple C question.  I have a sample C program that compiles and
runs fine in a Borland C++ environment.

When I try to compile this program in a VAX/VMS (5.4-2) environment I get a
warning message.  I have looked up the error message but it doesn't mean a
thing to me.

Attached is the source and a sethost log of my compile.

Please help a student with out a clue?

********************************************************************************
cc example_1.c
	void main(void){ /* begin main */
%CC-W-INVMAINRETVAL, Return value of main function is not an integer type.
		At line number 8 in $DISK:EXAMPLE_1.C;24.

%CC-I-SUMMARY, Completed with 0 error(s), 1 warning(s), and
		0 informational messages.
		At line number 29 in $DISK:EXAMPLE_1.C;24.
********************************************************************************

/*
Example from the first day of class.  Will use for/next loop and
while loop to illistait 'weak' data typing in 'C'.
*/

#include <stdio.h>

void main(void){ /* begin main */

char k; /* character looping variable */
int  m; /* integer looping variable */

puts("Characters have number codes - using Character Variable");

for ( k=' '; k <= '~'; k++){           /* begin for loop                   */
     if ((k-' ')%12==0) putchar('\n'); /* line feed every 12th iteration   */
     printf("%2c%4d",k,k);             /* print the character variable     */
}                                      /* end for loop                     */
putchar('\n'); putchar('\n');
 
puts("Characters have number codes - using Integer Variable");

m=32;                                  /* initial value for intege         */
while (m < 127) {                      /* begin while loop                 */
     if ((m-32)%12==0) putchar('\n');  /* line feed every 12th iteration   */
     printf("%2c%4d",m,m);             /* print the integer varaible       */
     m++;                              
}                                      /* end while loop                   */
}                                      /* end main                         */

********************************************************************************

So am I missing a compiler switch that will make it all ok??

TIA


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From: Peter Smode <psmode@jeslacs.wimsey.bc.ca>
Newsgroups: comp.os.vms
Subject: Lost LAT sessions
Date: Thu, 21 Jan 93 19:07:50 PST
Organization: JES Library Automation, Coquitlam BC, CANADA

We have a bit of an oddball problem happening at a couple of our sites.
From time to time (measured in weeks or months), we will get one or
more interactive terminal sessions on LTAxxxx: terminals getting 
"lost in space". The symptoms are as follows:
- a SHOW USERS FULL will be missing the (server/port) address for the
LTAxxx: terminal
- the process will INHALE all available CPU time, at elivated priority.
This effectively turns the system into a dog.
- it is suspected that users terminal sessions just go dead in the
water with no terminal response. We are not sure as users are not
giving us good information when these situations occur.
- SHOW ERROR reveals nothing
- NCP counters do no show anything out of the ordinary
- happens for both direct and dialup connections on any port, any server
- server error counters do not seem to indicate trouble.

So far, DEC has sent the latest patch kits and had us install them, but
to no avail.

Has anybody got any ideas?

Both system on which this occurs are homogeneous CI-based VAXClusters. 
CPUs include VAX 7xx, 8xxx and 6xxx based machines. VMS versions are
5.3-x and 5.4-x.

-- Peter

**************************************************************************
*   Peter Smode                 E-mail:    psmode@jeslacs.wimsey.bc.ca   *
*   JES Library Automation      Voice:     (604)939-6775                 *
*   Coquitlam, BC, CANADA       Fax:       (604)939-9970                 *
**************************************************************************
From: jeh@cmkrnl.com
Newsgroups: comp.os.vms
Subject: Re: LAT Printer Pausing.
Date: 24 Jan 93 01:24:16 PST
Organization: Kernel Mode Systems, San Diego, CA

In article <1993Jan18.203622.901@news.weeg.uiowa.edu>, meadows@cslvax.weeg.uiowa.edu writes:
>     I recently upgraded to VMS 5.5-2 and I'm having some problems with
> one of our LAT printers. The printer is attached to a 3rd party LAT 
> terminal server (Datability), and has been working for over two years
> in this configuration. What is happening is the queue keeps pausing 
> after one or more jobs. 

I've seen this happen when I had the printer on a DECserver 200MC port which
was set to "signal check enabled".  The printer in question is a Laserjet with
both serial and parallel ports.  I use the serial connection to the LAT box
and the parallel to a PC.  I had hoped that when the printer was turned off,
or switched to the parellel port, that "signal check enabled" would cause the
LAT box to simply hold up the output.  Instead it seems to prevent LATSYM from
doing the IO$M_LT_CONNECT to the port, and LATSYM stupidly pauses the queue.

	--- Jamie Hanrahan, Kernel Mode Systems, San Diego CA
drivers, internals, networks, applications, and training for VMS and Windows NT
uucp 'g' protocol guru and release coordinator, VMSnet (DECUS uucp) W.G., and 
Chair, Programming and Internals Working Group, U.S. DECUS VMS Systems SIG 
Internet:  jeh@cmkrnl.com, or hanrahan@eisner.decus.org  Uucp: uunet!cmkrnl!jeh
From: carl@SOL1.GPS.CALTECH.EDU (Carl J Lydick)
Newsgroups: comp.os.vms
Subject: Re: VAX FORTRAN
Date: 28 Jan 1993 02:28:58 GMT
Organization: HST Wide Field/Planetary Camera
Distribution: world
Reply-To: carl@SOL1.GPS.CALTECH.EDU
NNTP-Posting-Host: sol1.gps.caltech.edu

In article <27JAN199309324042@rdth2.rdth.luc.edu>, pbricker@rdth2.rdth.luc.edu
(Preston Bricker) writes:
>How do I send a file to a print queue from within a FORTRAN program?
>There should be a hook equivalent to DCL PRINT.
>If you post the answer, please also e-mail it.

Here's an example.  See the section on $SNDJBC in the System Services Reference
Manual for details.

	INCLUDE '($SJCDEF)'
	STRUCTURE /ITEM_LIST_3/
		INTEGER*2 BUFLEN, ITMCOD
		INTEGER*4 BUFADR, LENADR
	ENDSTRUCTURE

	RECORD /ITEM_LIST_3/ ITMLST(4)
	BYTE QUEUE_NAME(9) / 'S', 'Y', 'S', '$', 'P', 'R', 'I', 'N', 'T'/
	BYTE FILE_NAME(8) / 'T', 'E', 'S', 'T', '.', 'D', 'A', 'T'/
	BYTE FORM_NAME(7) / 'D', 'E', 'F', 'A', 'U', 'L', 'T'/
	INTEGER*4 IOSB(2), STAT, SYS$SNDJBCW

	ITMLST(1).BUFLEN = 9
	ITMLST(1).ITMCOD = SJC$_QUEUE
	ITMLST(1).BUFADR = %LOC(QUEUE_NAME)
	ITMLST(1).LENADR = 0
	ITMLST(2).BUFLEN = 8
	ITMLST(2).ITMCOD = SJC$_FILE_SPECIFICATION
	ITMLST(2).BUFADR = %LOC(FILE_NAME)
	ITMLST(2).LENADR = 0
	ITMLST(3).BUFLEN = 7
	ITMLST(3).ITMCOD = SJC$_FORM_NAME
	ITMLST(3).BUFADR = %LOC(FORM_NAME)
	ITMLST(3).LENADR = 0
	ITMLST(4).BUFLEN = 0
	ITMLST(4).ITMCOD = 0
	ITMLST(4).BUFADR = 0
	ITMLST(4).LENADR = 0
	STAT = SYS$SNDJBCW(%VAL(0), %VAL(SJC$_ENTER_FILE), %VAL(0), ITMLST,
	1	IOSB, %VAL(0), %VAL(0))
	IF((STAT .AND. 7) .NE. 1) THEN
		CALL SYS$EXIT(%VAL(STAT))
	ENDIF
	IF((IOSB(1) .AND. 7) .NE. 1) THEN
		CALL SYS$EXIT(%VAL(IOSB(1)))
	ENDIF
	END
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Carl J Lydick | INTERnet: CARL@SOL1.GPS.CALTECH.EDU | NSI/HEPnet: SOL1::CARL

Disclaimer:  Hey, I understand VAXen and VMS.  That's what I get paid for.  My
understanding of astronomy is purely at the amateur level (or below).  So
unless what I'm saying is directly related to VAX/VMS, don't hold me or my
organization responsible for it.  If it IS related to VAX/VMS, you can try to
hold me responsible for it, but my organization had nothing to do with it.
Newsgroups: comp.os.vms
From: fairfield@slacvx.slac.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: VAX FORTRAN
Organization: Stanford Linear Accelerator Center
Date: Thu, 28 Jan 1993 21:37:52 GMT

In article <1k8ennINN52q@gap.caltech.edu>, carl@SOL1.GPS.CALTECH.EDU (Carl J Lydick) writes:
| In article <1993Jan27.225851.1@slacvx.slac.stanford.edu>, fairfield@slacvx.slac.stanford.edu writes:
|>    Geez, Carl, that's about the _ugliest_ fortran I've seen in a long time :-)
|>How about:
| 
|>	CHARACTER  QUEUE_NAME*9, FILE_NAME*8, FORM_NAME*7
|>	PARAMETER (QUEUE_NAME = 'SYS$PRINT',
|>     >		   FILE_NAME = 'TEST.DAT',
|>     >             FORM_NAME = 'DEFAULT')
| 
|>Or, at the very least:
| 
|>	CHARACTER  QUEUE_NAME*9/'SYS$PRINT'/, FILE_NAME*8/'TEST.DAT'/,
|>     >             FORM_NAME*7/'DEFAULT'/
| 
|>You know, the youngsters are _impressionable_!
| 
| Well, Ken, there's a problem here.  You see, SYS$SNDJBC[W] wants, as some of 
| its arguments, pointers to arrrays containing filename, form name, and queue 
| name.  It does *NOT* want descriptors for these.  That means that the        
| arguments have to be the addresses of arrays, not the addresses of           
| descriptors.                                                                 

    As I've already replied to Carl privately, %LOC does NOT return the
address of the descriptor, but the address of the "array of characters".
This is not speculation: I have LOTS of working code that uses %LOC on
character variables (descriptors) for use with system services in item 
lists.  The quoted declarations, above, work AS IS with the rest of 
Carl's sample code unchanged, spcifically the %LOC(QUEUE_NAME), etc.

    However, I just checked my Fortran docs, and they are pretty vague
on this point.  To wit, in the _VAX_Fortran_User_Manual_ for VMS V5.0,
on page 6-8 it states in part:

    6.2.4 Passing Addresses --- %LOC Function                               
                                                                            
        The %LOC built-in function computes the address of a storage element
        as an INTEGER*4 value.  You can then use this value in an arithmetic
        expression.                                                         

The key phrase is "address of a storage element", and I guess that means 
NOT the address of the descriptor, but the address where the character data 
reside.  (Steve Lionel, would you care to comment?)

	-Ken
-- 
 Dr. Kenneth H. Fairfield    |  Internet: Fairfield@Slac.Stanford.Edu
 SLAC, P.O.Box 4349, MS 98   |  DECnet:   45537::FAIRFIELD (45537=SLACVX)
 Stanford, CA   94309        |  BITNET    Fairfield@Slacvx
 ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
 These opinions are mine, not SLAC's, Stanford's, nor the DOE's...
From: bruce@ais.com (Bruce C. Wright)
Newsgroups: comp.os.vms
Subject: Re: How can I change my Username
Date: 27 Jan 93 23:29:45 GMT
Organization: Applied Information Systems, Chapel Hill, NC

In article <159@mccoy.dbaccess.com>, steve@dbaccess.com (Steve Suttles) writes:
> finocchiaroj@merrimack.edu () writes:
> : I was wondering if there is a way that I can change my username by bypassing
> : the system managers protected privliages.
> 
> Actually, there is.  For about $35,000 you can buy a vax of your own,
> and you can call yourself anything you want.
> 
> Somewhat less expensive options include asking the system manager.

Oh really now.  You can get even a new VAXstation VLC (admittedly
diskless) for under $3500, a tenth of the figure you quote.  If
you don't mind not having state-of-the-art hardware, a MicroVAX 2000
is a nice enough one or two user machine (no graphics however unless
you get the VAXstation flavor) and costs well under $2000 used,
including disk.

Bruce C. Wright
Newsgroups: comp.os.vms,comp.sys.dec
From: newark@befvax.uchicago.edu (Tom Newark)
Subject: status of avs for vms...
Reply-To: newark@befvax.uchicago.edu
Organization: University of Chicago, Dept of Molecular Genetics and Cell Biology
Date: Tue, 26 Jan 1993 19:51:34 GMT


does anyone know the status of avs for vms.  I ask this question every couple
of months.  I've seen avs running on a model 90 at siggraph but haven't heard
anything about commercial release of it.  Does anyone know the release date?

Did they put it on hold due to the alpha release?

I've got a model 90 that's just dying to run it.

Thanks for the help

Tom Newark


@#@#@#@#@#@#@#@#@#@#@#@#@#@#@#@#@#@#@#@#@#@#@#@#@#@#@#@#@#@#@#@#@#@#@#@#@
#@ Tom Newark    System Manager/Programmer                             @#
@# Department of Molecular Genetics and Cell Biology                   #@
#@ University of Chicago  --  newark@befvax.uchicago.edu               @#
@#@#@#@#@#@#@#@#@#@#@#@#@#@#@#@#@#@#@#@#@#@#@#@#@#@#@#@#@#@#@#@#@#@#@#@#@
From: RING@JUNCOL.JUNIATA.EDU (John Charles Ring)
Newsgroups: comp.os.vms
Subject: RE: Moderated List???
Date: 22 Jan 93 04:20:28 GMT
Distribution: world
Organization: The Internet

Stated by: woody@bdrc.bd.com
>>For what it's worth:
>>        Ehud has left the newsgroup.
>
>How sad.  But what about all the people *you've* chased away from this
>forum, Carl?  There are lots of folks on Usenet with varied interests
>and environments, people who have no desire to have your kind of mile-
>deep and yard-wide knowledge.  These people have questions, and they
>also have answers to questions in other subjects.

   Too bad -- Ehud's flames at least brought a chuckle, I've even saved a few! 
Of course, he's not the only knowledgable person on here, but nevertheless,
it's not good that he left.

   True, the Usenet has various interests, and it's difficult to expect people
always ask appropriate questions.  However, there is a limit to patience, of
which some have more than others, of course.

>You have fostered an environment of confrontation and abuse, Carl, and
>a lot of knowledgeable people who dislike confrontation and abuse 
>stay quiet.  The "newbies" you are so fond of bullying are a 
>completely new crop of news browsers from the "newbies" you bullied
>away from the group a few months ago -- and there will be more next
>month.  That's the way of the net.browsers -- remember, this newsgroup
>goes beyond the INFO-VAX mailing list.  Live with it.

   As Carl has pointed out in a previous post, it's only recently that he's
been flameing posters.  Thinking about it, seems to me that the reason for the
FLAME HEAP that we've been buried in recently goes along this following lines:

1) A poster doesn't know enough, or think enough, to include a decent
   description of the problem or any relevent information about it.

2) Some person requests more information, and gives an idea of what to include. 
   I.E. The log file, and/or the DCL error messages.  True, the request may be
   imbedded in a flame, but its -still- a request!

3) Original poster flames back, but STILL does not provide the requested
   information!

4) FLAME WAR HELL promptly invades our mailers and newsreaders.

   So, live with it?  I have little problem with that, except, should it not be
equally applied to the "newbies?"  If you're not familiar with the 'way things
work' about a familiar thing, maybe those people on your back are right, and
you should attempt to learn.  True, -maybe- they should have been a bit more
patient, but everyone has a short fuse now & then!

   So, could we *please* stop SCREAMING at each other back & forth, and try to
--listen-- just a little closer to what others are saying?

   Sorry for the long post/rhetoric, maybe my fuse is short tonight!

      John Ring -- Ring@Juncol.Juniata.Edu
      "And the blind shall lead the sighted -- Triumph"
Newsgroups: comp.os.vms
Subject: HELP: C/C++ compiler for VMS
From: claridge@wronz.org.nz
Date: 28 Jan 93 14:22:02 +1300

Hi,

I'm looking to put C and/or C++ onto our VMS 5.4-3 system. I have
tried to install GNU-C for VMS, FTP'd from MIT, but I'm just about
ready to punch the VDU right in the throat! What a bloody mess!

Can anyone help with clear installation instructions and/or info on
alternative source(s). Not necessarily PD, but 3rd party rather than
DEC.

Reply via e-mail or here, as you prefer.

Thanks, Robert.
-- 
Robert Burling-Claridge, WRONZ, Lincoln, NZ.
e-mail : CLARIDGE@WRONZ.ORG.NZ
snail  : Wool Research Organisation of NZ, Private Bag 4749, 
         Christchurch, New Zealand
"Why would anyone need a computer of their own ? " -- Ken Olsen, 1974.
From: leichter@lrw.com (Jerry Leichter)
Newsgroups: comp.os.vms
Subject: RE: SENDing an entire MAIL FOLDER ?
Date: 26 Jan 93 01:41:31 GMT
Distribution: world
Organization: The Internet


	I CHECKED:
	On-line help
	On-line documentation
	Local comp center staff

	Can I send all 30 messages in a single mail folder to a user at
	another node, and if so, how?

	Extracting each individually, and appending them into a single file
	would work, but I'd lose the directory information from that mail
	folder (#, From, Date, Subject).

	I could FORWARD each message individually.  But would the message
	arriving at the new node contain my address in the "From" field, and
	the date of forwarding in the "Date" field?

There is no direct way to do what you want.  FORWARD only operates on one
message at a time.

My approach in your situation would be to:

	SELECT the folder
	EXTRACT/ALL/MAIL FOO
	Send file FOO.MAI (deposited, by default, in your mail
		subdirectory)

At the other end, when the mail arrives:

	Extract it into some file, say F2.MAI.
	Enter MAIL and SET FILE [wherever]F2 (again, the default is your
		mail subdirectory).

All your messages should now be accessible in the sequential mail file F2.MAI.
If you want to move them into a folder in MAIL.MAI, do:

	COPY/ALL new-folder MAIL

Note:  If the mail went through something other than DECnet, chances are
there are extra headers on the front.  MAIL seems to ignore these, but if they
give you any trouble, edit them out.  The actual file created when you use
EXTRACT/MAIL will always start with a formfeed (CTRL/L).

							-- Jerry
From: terry@spcvxb.spc.edu (Terry Kennedy, Operations Mgr.)
Newsgroups: comp.os.vms
Subject: Re: TALK command problem
Date: 26 Jan 93 11:59:44 GMT
Article-I.D.: spcvxb.1993Jan26.065944.5019
Organization: St. Peter's College, US

In article <01GTWUKZCBNK000N1O@MSUS1.MSUS.EDU>, TS117%BSU.DECNET@MSUS1.BITNET (Tandi Sunarto) writes:
> This is strange to me, since I have no problem at all everytime
> I send a mail to him, which means I could reach him.
> I am calling from Bemidji State Univ., MN and my friend is at 
> University of Kentucky.

  You don't give the host names involved, nor the TCP/IP package you're using,
but I can make a guess. Not everything you can send Internet mail to is really
"on" the Internet. There is an Internet feature called "MX records" which de-
fines a way to route mail to a host directly connected to the Internet which
will then do "something" to get the mail to the desired host.

  If your TCP/IP supports the "NSLOOKUP" command or something similar, you can
see this information for yourself:

$ nslookup
Default Server:  spcvxc.spc.edu
Address:  192.107.46.29

> set type=a
> hsh.com.
Server:  spcvxc.spc.edu
Address:  192.107.46.29

*** No address (A) records available for hsh.com.
> set type=mx
> hsh.com.
Server:  spcvxc.spc.edu
Address:  192.107.46.29

Non-authoritative answer:
hsh.com	preference = 200, mail exchanger = spcvxa.spc.edu

[stuff deleted]
> set type=a
> spcvxz.spc.edu.
Server:  spcvxc.spc.edu
Address:  192.107.46.29

Name:    spcvxz.spc.edu
Address:  192.107.46.52

> set type=mx
> spcvxz.spc.edu.
Server:  spcvxc.spc.edu
Address:  192.107.46.29

spcvxz.spc.edu	preference = 0, mail exchanger = spcvxa.spc.edu
spcvxz.spc.edu	preference = 10, mail exchanger = spcvxz.spc.edu
spcvxa.spc.edu	internet address = 192.107.46.27
spcvxz.spc.edu	internet address = 192.107.46.52
> exit

  From this we can see that "hsh.com" is not "on" the Internet (since the
query returned "No A records", however, a mail exchanger is defined, so you
can send mail there. Compare that with "spcvxz.spc.edu", which has an A
record, and also happens to have MX records.

  I suspect that the host you want to use TALK with is a MX-only host.

	Terry Kennedy		Operations Manager, Academic Computing
	terry@spcvxa.bitnet	St. Peter's College, Jersey City, NJ USA
	terry@spcvxa.spc.edu	+1 201 915 9381
From: boag@marshall.wvnet.edu (Bob Boag)
Newsgroups: comp.os.vms
Subject: Re: How to repeat "new Mail message" ?
Date: 24 Jan 93 08:17:26 GMT
Article-I.D.: marshall.1993Jan24.131726.119790
Organization: Marshall University

In article <1993Jan21.184343.97@ittpub.nl>, david@ittpub.nl (David P. Morgan) writes:
> In article <1jm4nnINN59b@urmel.informatik.rwth-aachen.de>, jogl@merry.imib.rwth-aachen.de (Joachim Glaubrecht  #Alwd#) writes:
>> 
>> so, in brief words:
>> is there a procedure like "NEW_MAIL.COM" i can call, that repeats
>>         ~~~~~~~~~~~~~                               ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>> the 'You have 1 new Mail message.' message ?
>>     ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> Here's a "NEW_MAIL.COM" for ya:
> 
> $
> $ MAIL
> $
> 
> In this case MAIL is taking its input from the command procedure and, not
> finding any, exits after printing your desired message. You should investigate
> the logicals SYS$INPUT, SYS$OUTPUT and SYS$COMMAND (and SYS$ERROR for
> completeness) in the manuals to understand how DCL works like this.

I would recommend the following instead:

$ MAIL
QUIT
$

Since if you allow VMS Mail to EXIT, as would be the case in the above example,
you may find that you have a (possibly) long wait when VMS Mail displays the
following message:

%MAIL-I-RECLPLSWAIT, reclaiming deleted file space.  Please wait..

This could easily happen the next time you logged in after using VMS Mail and
exiting with the QUIT command, or if you are accidently disconnected, or the
system crashes, etc.

Using QUIT will not allow VMS Mail to display the new mail message count, and
exit without trying to empty your wastebasket (reclaim deleted file space).

--
Bob Boag                                BITNET:   boag@marshall
Senior Software Systems Analyst         Internet: boag@marshall.wvnet.edu
Marshall University Computer Center     Phone:    (304)696-2624
Huntington, WV 25755-5320               FAX:      (304)696-3601
Newsgroups: comp.os.vms
From: mdchaney@fractal.ucs.indiana.edu (M Darrin Chaney)
Subject: Re: Can DCL programs execute 'other' commands ?
Organization: Indiana University, Bloomington
Date: Wed, 27 Jan 1993 14:29:04 GMT

In article <1k4pn8INNjbq@gap.caltech.edu> carl@SOL1.GPS.CALTECH.EDU writes:
>In article <1993Jan26.133712.18548@tomcat.rd.ray.com>, frank@tomcat.rd.ray.com (Frank Sandy) writes:
>=In article <1jvfpnINNjtu@gap.caltech.edu> carl@SOL1.GPS.CALTECH.EDU writes:
>=>You put $ signs only at the beginnings of DCL commands, not in front of lines
>=>which are data for an image.  In your case, you want:
>=>	$ MAIL
>=>	READ 1
>=>	READ 2
>=>	EXIT
>=
>=	Carl's reply is generally correct, but it won't work well for 
>=programs like mail that may need to display more than one screen between 
>=READ commands.  An indeterminate number of blank lines would be needed 
>=between the READ 1 and READ 2, etc.
>
>The environment in which the procedure was to execute wasn't specified.  If
>its output is to something other than a terminal, then the blank lines aren't
>necessary.  I simply took the commands the person who posted the question
>apparently wanted to execute and modified his script so it would work.

"extract/all sys$output" will cause the messages to be dumped to the
terminal, file, or whatever with no need to worry about how many messages,
or how long they are, etc.  Carl's right, though, it's irrelevent because
the original poster just wanted to have an example with these commands.  He
didn't care if it "worked" or not.

	Darrin
-- 
M Darrin Chaney, Senior Database Programmer, University Computing Services, IU
mdchaney@indiana.edu             1000 E 17th St.             Work: (812)855-5492
mdchaney@iubacs.bitnet           Bloomington, IN 47408       Home: (812)333-6311
"I want- I need- to live, to see it all..."