HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: faigin@aero.org (Daniel P. Faigin)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
Subject: Re: Conversion Question
Date: 10 Nov 92 11:00:13
Organization: The Aerospace Corporation, El Segundo, CA
NNTP-Posting-Host: soldan.aero.org
In-reply-to: stephenp@cix.compulink.co.uk's message of Tue, 10 Nov 1992 14:50:00 +0000

On Tue, 10 Nov 1992 14:50:00 +0000, stephenp@cix.compulink.co.uk (Stephen Phillips) said:

> O.K., but then don't expect the Orthodox to go along with the
> Conservative and Reform interpretations and certainly don't get upset
> when they don't.

This raises an interesting point, which is also raised in the mythical FAQ
:-). Namely, Orthodoxy can never accept the validity of Reform or
Conservative, because it has the implication that they have been doing
something wrong. Reform and Conservative can easily accept Orthodoxy, since
they both allow for variety of worship and practice. It's an argument that
can't be settled.

I don't think Reform or Conservative should try and get Orthodox to go along
with their interpretations. If someone from a Reform background goes to an
Orthodox background, it should be made clear that there are a different set of
ground rules. That's the risk you take. Nothing in Reform prevents someone
from being fully Orthodox while still considering themselves Reform. It's a
conscious decision to join the Orthodox. 

However, in an environment where we are talking about Jews in general (such as
in Israel), we should not enforce the particular requirements of one
particular movement. In that case, we should go with the more liberal stance. 

Daniel
--
[W]:The Aerospace Corp. M1/055 * POB 92957 * LA, CA 90009-2957 * 310/336-8228
[Email]:faigin@aerospace.aero.org              [Vmail]:310/336-5454 Box#13149
		    "And as they say, the rest is compost"
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
From: danl@col.hp.com (Daniel Lockhart)
Subject: Re: Movie "Exodus"
Date: Fri, 13 Nov 1992 17:06:40 GMT
Organization: HP Colorado Springs Division

hem@maverick.col400.att.com (Hillel E. Markowitz) writes:
> In article <2807@israel.nysernet.org> warren@nysernet.org writes:
> >Something does seem wrong on swearing on both the Tanach and the gun.
> >Swearing on the Tanach to use the gun properly would be another thing.
> >
> >I don't imagine that there would have been any difficulty obtaining a
> >copy of the Tanach in 1948.
> >-- 
> >/|/-\/-\          Adif tzav pinui metzav shmoneh.
> > |__/__/_/    
> > |warren@     
> >/ nysernet.org 			    Jerusalem
> 
> 
> THe impression I got from the book (it was a while ago) and the
> way it was explained to me was that Warren is correct as to what
> was being done.  It wasn't actually "swearing" but
> acknowledgement thast the Tanach would teach how to use the rifle
> while the rifle would be used to defend the Tanach.
> 
> ____________________________________________________
> | Hillel Markowitz    |     Im ain ani li mi li    |
> | H_Markowitz@att.com | Veahavta Leraiecha Kamocha |
> |_____________________|____________________________|

One of the things that I was thinking about, I figured there were the 
commentaries published in book form, but somehow I kept leaning toward
the idea the the Tanach would probably be found in scroll form.

As been sent to already, there were many copies on the Tanach in book 
form at that time.  Just goyin thinking-)  Thanks for the feedback

daniel
From: dic5340@hertz.njit.edu (David Charlap)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
Subject: Re: Who built the pyramids
Date: 13 Nov 92 18:51:24 GMT
Organization: New Jersey Institute of Technology, Newark, N.J.

In article <1drtp4INNpb8@frigate.doc.ic.ac.uk> mmg@doc.ic.ac.uk (M M Ghanem) writes:
>The pyramids were built by EGYPTIANS not jews. You can check with your
>nearest library to clarify your facts. If any jews contributed to building
>the pyramid (although I doubt the fact) I think they were EGYPTIANS.

The Jews built treasure-cities to the Pharoh.  The cities of Pithom
and Ramses are mentioned in Exodus, and there may have been others.
As for the pyramids, at the time the Jews were enslaved to Egypt, the
pyramids were so old that the Egyptians had forgotten who built them!
-- 
  |)  David Charlap          | .signature confiscated by FBI due to
 /|_  dic5340@hertz.njit.edu | an ongoing investigation into the
((|,)                        | source of these .signature virusses
 ~|~
From: warren@nysernet.org (Warren Burstein)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
Subject: Re: Autopsy - Kahane and Rosenbaum
Date: 7 Nov 92 18:57:18 GMT
Reply-To: warren@nysernet.org
Organization: Mail to News Gateway at Wang Labs

In <Pine.3.05.9211050946.A25205-c100000@alsys1> somer@aecom.yu.edu (Bradley Somer) writes:

>I would like to reiterate that I was no fan of Kahane's political
>ideas, however, I attended his funeral to pay respects to a man who
>did what he thought was in our (including your) best interest.

I, too, attended the funeral and walked as far as the bus station on
the way to the cemetary.  While I object to murder, I did not attend
in order to pay respect of any sort.

I went in order so that when people claim that no violent acts were
committed by the crowd (and anyone who heard otherwise must have been
mislead by the media) I would be able to say, "I saw it myself".
-- 
/|/-\/-\          Adif tzav pinui metzav shmoneh.
 |__/__/_/    
 |warren@     
/ nysernet.org 			    Jerusalem
From: dic5340@hertz.njit.edu (David Charlap)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
Subject: Re: Prayer shawls
Date: 11 Nov 92 21:52:53 GMT
Organization: New Jersey Institute of Technology, Newark, N.J.

In article <9211102318.AA05344@host0.COLBY.EDU> <jjsulliv@COLBY.EDU (Nice Young Lady(tm))> writes:
>
>I see a great variety of tallit (where is my hebrew textbook when i
>need a plural form?) in our local temple, from the plain white with a
>few blue stripes, to the rabbis gold-embroidered one, some with
>colored embroidered hebrew letters, I've even seen on with BLACK
>stripes and one covered totally with blue stripes (most of them only
>have a few stripes on either end, this one looked like some sort of
>kitsch horse blanket).  I want to make (handsew, embroider, etc.)  a
>tallis for a friend of mine, as a gift, and I was wondering, among all
>the variations, what are the absolute REQUIRED characteristics of
>prayer shawls, and what variations are dictated mostly by fashion,
>and, of them, what do you all find preferable?   

The only requirement is that it have four corners and be larger than a
certain size and have tzitzit on the corners.

Aside from that it is nice if it's made from wool, with something
fancy at the neckline area and perhaps a few vertical stripes (black
or blue is traditional.)

Consult a Rabbi first, though.



-- 
  |)  David Charlap          | .signature confiscated by FBI due to
 /|_  dic5340@hertz.njit.edu | an ongoing investigation into the
((|,)                        | source of these .signature virusses
 ~|~
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
From: solovay@netcom.com (Andrew Solovay)
Subject: Re: Kosher & Jewish Holidays (2 different subjects)
Organization: International Irony League -- Death before smileys!
Date: Sat, 7 Nov 1992 00:29:11 GMT

In article <MANDEL.92Nov6181009@litp4.ibp.fr> mandel@litp.ibp.fr (Arnaldo MANDEL) writes:
>Typical make believe hypocrisy of the kind that makes more and more people
>lose all respect for institutional religion.  Orthodox Judaism is certainly
>full of this (starting, perhaps, with the "shabbes goy" of old).
>
>Too bad that being Jewish sort of identifies me with this silly behavior.

Well, in the words of Jules Farber, "You should never be ashamed
that you're Jewish, because it's enough that I'm ashamed that
you're Jewish."
-- 
Andrew M. Solovay	    "Until there was rock, you only had God."
					--Ziggy Stardust

#include <disclaimer.h>
Xref: sparky soc.culture.jewish:19450 sci.physics:18422
From: weemba@sagi.wistar.upenn.edu (Matthew P Wiener)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish,sci.physics
Subject: Re: Einstein and Judaism
Date: 8 Nov 92 16:21:51 GMT
Reply-To: weemba@sagi.wistar.upenn.edu (Matthew P Wiener)
Followup-To: sci.physics
Organization: The Wistar Institute of Anatomy and Biology
In-reply-to: emc@doe.carleton.ca (Eli Chiprout)

In article <emc.721089476@noonian>, emc@doe (Eli Chiprout) writes:
>I often wonder what the reaction to Einstein would have been if he
>had posted his comments concerning Judaism and science on this
>newsgroup instead of presenting them in lectures etc.

That's nothing.  Would he have survived sci.physics???
-- 
-Matthew P Wiener (weemba@sagi.wistar.upenn.edu)
From: nraclaw@jade.tufts.edu (Nissan Raclaw)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
Subject: Re: Why I think Kach's policies are racist
Date: 10 Nov 92 22:58:24 GMT
Organization: Tufts University - Medford, MA

In article <dfs.721347698@ro> dfs@doe.carleton.ca (David F. Skoll) writes:
>In an e-mail exchange with a reader of soc.culture.jewish, I came to
>realize that some people do not understand (or do not accept) why I called
>Kach's policies racist.  Here's a clarification (an exerpt from the latest
>e-mail exchange:)
>
>Let me define "racism" - the discrimination against people based
>on their race, religion, or cultural identity.
>
>Let me define "discrimination" - the differing treatment of people
>in areas of political rights, housing, and freedom of movement.
>
>So far, those two definitions seem fairly reasonable.
>
>Now:  Kach proposes to take away all political rights from Arabs (actually,
>from all non-Jews) in Israel.  This is clearly discrimination.  And this
>discrimination is clearly based solely on religion, since it would
>not apply to Jews (or, indeed, to Arab converts to Judaism.)
>
>In fact, were I to move to Israel with my wife, we would be victims
>of Kach's racism.  My wife is Jewish, as recognized by the Conservative
>and Reform movements.  However, sho is not Jewish as recognized by the
>Orthodox.  One of Kach's planks is to force an end to "mixed marriages"
>by disallowing the cohabitation of Jews and non-Jews.  Therefore, were
>we to make aliyah and Kach gain power in Israel, my wife and I would
>be forced to separate or leave Israel.  Again, this decision would be
>based solely on the fact that my wife was not born Jewish.
>
>So, let me recap:
>
>Racism == discrimination based on religion, race or culture.


	

>Discrimination == differing treatment of people in areas of housing,
>political rights, or freedom of movement.
>Kach plank #1 == take away political rights from non-Jews only
>Kach plank #2 == forbid cohabitation of Jews and non-Jews, based on
>non-Jewish partner's religion
>
>This adds up to RACISM to me.  I don't see how you can get around
>it, unless you want to nit-pick at my definitions.
>
>--
>David F. Skoll

To recap, indeed.  By your definition, Israel itself is racist, for in
its PRESENT policies it distinguishes between Jews and non-Jews. Like
say in the Law of Return and the policies of the JNF.  Secondly, it is
not Kahane who forbids marriage between a Jew and a non-Jew: it is
Judaism itself.  Now, if you are prepared to say that Judaism and Israel
are both inherently racist, that's a logical position that at least is
coherent;however, neither of the things you described above are solely
the Kahanism which you so detest.

Nissan

:wq
From: faigin@aero.org (Daniel P. Faigin)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
Subject: Re: Conversion Question
Date: 10 Nov 92 10:46:18
Organization: The Aerospace Corporation, El Segundo, CA
	<09Nov92.142010.19718@granite.ciw.edu>
	<1992Nov9.163429.24770@umbc3.umbc.edu>
	<09Nov92.194522.19265@granite.ciw.edu>
NNTP-Posting-Host: soldan.aero.org
In-reply-to: cohen@quartz.ciw.edu's message of 9 Nov 92 19:45:22 GMT

On 9 Nov 92 19:45:22 GMT, cohen@quartz.ciw.edu (Ronald Cohen) said:

> If I had my druthers, there would be no reform Judaism, since they have
> thrown out the Halacha altogether.

This is a misrepresentation of Reform. Although Reform does not consider the
Halacha to be the writing of G-d, there is the distinct notion of divine
inspiration in the laws. The halacha is used as the basis in all responsa and
decisions, tempered by the environment in which the responsa was developed.

Daniel
--
[W]:The Aerospace Corp. M1/055 * POB 92957 * LA, CA 90009-2957 * 310/336-8228
[Email]:faigin@aerospace.aero.org              [Vmail]:310/336-5454 Box#13149
		    "And as they say, the rest is compost"
From: schwartz@nynexst.com (Steven Schwartz)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
Subject: Re: Whay OCR (was: Re: ORTHODOX)
Date: 12 Nov 92 21:30:13 GMT
Article-I.D.: nynexst.1992Nov12.213013.4513
Reply-To: schwartz@nynexst.com
Organization: Expert Systems Lab., NYNEX Sci. and Tech., White Plains NY
Originator: schwartz@baba


In article <1992Nov12.202511.3868@umbc3.umbc.edu>, shimoff@umbc4.umbc.edu (Eliot Shimoff) writes:
> 
> Kol ha'olam gesher tsar me'od ...
> AND WERE ARE JUST THE BETA-TESTERS???

Ah...so the real world is being deployed elsewhere.
That explains those "no warranty" signs I keep seeing.
-- 
Steven H. Schwartz		Expert Systems Laboratory
schwartz@nynexst.com		NYNEX Science and Technology Center
PROFS: SCHWARTZ@UNIX		500 Westchester Avenue
914-644-2960			White Plains NY 10604
From: jlove@ivrit.ra.itd.umich.edu (Jack Love)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
Subject: Re: Kippah
Date: 14 Nov 1992 01:47:08 GMT
Organization: /usr/local/trn/lib/organization
NNTP-Posting-Host: ivrit.ra.itd.umich.edu

In article <goldberg.721642220@techunix.technion.ac.il> goldberg@techunix.technion.ac.il (Jacques Goldberg) writes:
>jlove@ivrit.ra.itd.umich.edu (Jack Love) writes:
>
>>(....) Since current custom is derived from
>>the Babylonian tradition,(......)
>>so I would appreciate learning the source of your data. 
>
>    Could you please quote the source of yours?
>    For example, does it apply to the raising of the Torah (HAGBA'AH) before
>    or after the reading?
>    Thanks in advance - Yaaqov Goldberg



I'll be happy to share any of my sources. In this case I'm not sure
what you are asking. Is your question, do I have any sources which
specify whether the head should be covered during hagba'ah? I'm not
being coy--I really don't understand your question. 

Jack Love
Organization: Queen's University at Kingston
Date: Fri, 6 Nov 1992 01:26:12 EDT
From: andy <2893684@QUCDN.QueensU.CA>
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
Subject: Re: a hypocrite (or lier) posts from Canaca (was Re: Autopsy...)
 <1992Nov3.180558.25948@cbnewsl.cb.att.com>

Just in case anyone out there still doesn't get it, I include the following
exchange from our inhouse bulletin board:

^[>>Created: 1992/11/04 05:12 by 2893684 ..................................^]
      I have been questioned on netnews for not including my full name on
 my posts, I have explained that as my userid and student number is identical,
we have been advised not to post our full names (as undergrads) as doing so
could result in a breach of security vis-a-vis personal files and the such.
Thus in order to protect my privacy, I am unable to post my full name.
Am I correct?

Also is there any consideration to changing the system in the
future so that student numbers are not used as the basis for userids?
^[>>Updated: 1992/11/04 09:19 by BOYDJ    .................................^]
You are correct to protect your student number.

^[>>Updated: 1992/11/04 10:10 by YAGI     .................................^]
Yes - this is an issue we are looking at - there has to be some unique
identifier for you - using combinations of last name and first name may not
work for 12000 students. Also when you have accounts on more than one system -
the issue of Email distribution also needs to be addressed.
From: CARIAN@auvm.american.edu
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
Subject: Re: Living in Israel - Voting in USA
Date: 11 Nov 92 04:02:05 GMT
Article-I.D.: auvm.92315.230205CARIAN
 <lfio2vINN223@appserv.Eng.Sun.COM> <DAVIS.92Nov10105447@passy.ilog.fr>
 <1992Nov10.202314.16558@midway.uchicago.edu>
Organization: The American University - University Computing Center

Without taking a side in this debate between Bill and the rest of the known
universe :-), it strikes me that there is a very good and very moral reason
for American-born Jews living in Israel to retain their U.S. citizenship.

Most such people still have many relatives in the States, and like to visit
them on occasion. Retaining the US passport greatly facilitates such visits.

It is often difficult, sometimes impossible, for Israelis to get tourist

visas to the States; particularly so for Israelis in their 20s and 30s
unless they have a business or property in Israel.

If you give up your US citizenship there is the possibility of being denied
the ability to visit parents and other relatives in the States.

Rabbi Charles Arian
CARIAN@american.edu
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
From: er@iscp.Bellcore.COM (Elie Rosenfeld)
Subject: Re: Cantorial Service
Reply-To: er@iscp.Bellcore.COM (Elie Rosenfeld)
Organization: Bell Communications Research (Bellcore)
Date: Fri, 6 Nov 92 17:35:22 GMT

In article <9211041941.AA19788@cyclone.sbi.com>, gertler@cyclone.sbi.com (Don Gertler) writes:
|> er@iscp.Bellcore.COM (Elie Rosenfeld) writes:
|>>Repeating words can be viewed as unnecessary talking, since each word need be
|>>said only once.
...
|> unnecessary talking.  Few would call these repetitions necessary.  Before
|> "Hallel," we make the brakha "... asher kideshanu bemitzvotav, vetzivanu
|> likro et hahallel."  Until finishing the reading of "Hallel," over which
|> the brakha was said, there should be no other words inserted.  Else,
|> "Hallel" was not read.

This is another good example.  In fact, those verses that we do repeat in hallel
are specifically listed in the Gemara.  If they were not so, repeating them
might constitute an unnecessary interruption.  Therefore, many shalichay tzibur
will avoid repeating words in hallel, even if they use the popular tunes in
which words are usually repeated (e.g., "ki l'olam chasdo").
-- 
Elie Rosenfeld      | "He tasks me!  He tasks me and I shall have him!
Bellcore            |  I'll chase him 'round the Moons of Nebir and 'round
Piscataway, N.J.    |  the Antares Maelstrom and 'round Perdition's FLAMES
(908) 699-8800      |  before I give him up!"  - Khan, "STII-The Wrath of Khan"
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
From: loon@underdog.ee.wits.ac.za (LOON M J)
Subject: YIDDISH MOVIES
Organization: Wits Electrical Engineering (Undergrads).
Date: Thu, 12 Nov 1992 11:01:49 GMT

In San Francisco last year I attended the 11th International 
Jewish Film Festival. There were several Yiddish movies as well as 
contempory Jewish film. A favourite of mine was a movie filmed in 1930
in Poland in one of the real shtetls. It was about this girl fiddle player 
who, in order to join a travelling band, had to dress up as a man. There 
were English Subtitles.

What I want to know is - does anyone have information about how to get 
Yiddish movies on VIDEO - maybe even this movie I mentioned above. I would 
appreciate any possible clue about getting hold of one (or more). 

Thanks.

--
Marc Loon <loon@underdog.ee.wits.ac.za>
Student No: 8807871/X
Elec Eng. University of the Witwatersrand
Johannesburg

Conversation: a voice competition between two people
in which the one taking a breath is called the listener.
From: weemba@sagi.wistar.upenn.edu (Matthew P Wiener)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
Subject: Re: Pierced Ears
Date: 9 Nov 92 14:13:24 GMT
Reply-To: weemba@sagi.wistar.upenn.edu (Matthew P Wiener)
Organization: The Wistar Institute of Anatomy and Biology
In-reply-to: MASH@WEIZMANN.WEIZMANN.AC.IL (Michael Shimshoni)

In article <9211091032.AA00809@relay1.UU.NET>, MASH@WEIZMANN (Michael Shimshoni) writes:
>But as this reply of Matthew comes under the subject of "Pierced
>Ears" I wonder if by the Halakha as the Orthodox understand it, men
>(or women) are allowed at all to have their ears pierced.  Is this
>not forbidden like any other form of self mutilation?

I'm told that mutilation for the dead is the definite problem, and
that mutilation for your appearance, as defined by your culture is
not an issue.  Rivka Imminu wore a nose ring, right?
-- 
-Matthew P Wiener (weemba@sagi.wistar.upenn.edu)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
From: emc@doe.carleton.ca (Eli Chiprout)
Subject: Re: Einstein and Judaism
Organization: Dept. of Electronics, Carleton University
Date: Tue, 10 Nov 1992 13:44:24 GMT

In <1dn92cINNcsh@agate.berkeley.edu> lmk2@garnet.berkeley.edu writes:


>I find this highly consistent with the notion of G-d in Judaism.
	^^^^
Can you elaborate?  Are you referring to Einstein's comments
or comments by various posters?

>Leslie
--
Eli Chiprout                  " 'Al ta'am vereach, ein lehitvakeah!"
Dept. of Electronics, 
Carleton University, Canada
emc@doe.carleton.ca
From: goldberg@techunix.technion.ac.il (Jacques Goldberg)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
Subject: Re: Serious question about a Cohen getting married
Date: 6 Nov 92 07:02:07 GMT
Organization: Technion, Israel Institute of Technology

ring@inf.fu-berlin.de (Rod J. Ring) writes:

>In article <HimHTB2w165w@valpso.hanse.de>, tichauer@valpso.hanse.de
>(Manfredo Tichauer) writes:
>> goldberg@techunix.technion.ac.il (Jacques Goldberg) writes:
>>
>> >    Here we go again. BETULAH is not a virgin, please.
>>
>>       Although I don't know hebrew :-( in my Hebrew-German dictionary
>>       published by Achiasaf, Tel-Aviv, "Langenscheid-Achiasaf Handwoer-
>>       terbuch Hebraeisch-Deutsch", page 86, left column, it is written:
>>
>>                          Jungfrau = HALUTEB
>>                                     <------
>>       Now, guess what means Jungfrau in english ...

>Manfredo is right.  Of course, betula means virgin.

>Rod J. Ring	
   Of course, and of course I am wrong. Thank you all for correcting me.
   Now may I ask you to check what BAHUR means? A virgin male?
   What is the masculine for BETULAH, and when was it first used?
   What is the feminine for BAHUR, and when was it first used?
   And may I ask either of you, and more, to check the words used in the
   KETUBAH? 
Yaaqov Goldberg
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
From: MASH@WEIZMANN.WEIZMANN.AC.IL (Michael Shimshoni)
Subject: Re: Pierced Ears
Organization: Mail to News Gateway at Wang Labs
Date: Mon, 9 Nov 1992 10:24:16 GMT

In: <96449@netnews.upenn.edu>
weemba@sagi.wistar.upenn.edu (Matthew P Wiener) says:

>In article <1992Nov6.015337.5246@msuinfo.cl.msu.edu>, friedenb@topaz (Gedaliah
>>Men should not dress as women, and thus earrings are forbidden for men
>>is understood.
>
>But men can dress as men, so earrings are permitted.
>
>What is men's clothing vs what is women's clothing depends on your culture.

I am  all for each culture  to decide on  its dress, and for  those in
that culture to ignore these rules if they wish.  But as this reply of
Matthew comes under  the subject of "Pierced Ears" I  wonder if by the
Halakha as the  Orthodox understand it, men (or women)  are allowed at
all to have their ears pierced.   Is this not forbidden like any other
form of self mutilation?

Just curious.

>-Matthew P Wiener (weemba@sagi.wistar.upenn.edu)

  Michael Shimshoni
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish