HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: frank2@underdog.ee.wits.ac.za (FRANK D N)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.african
Subject: South African Broadcasting Corporation - propaganda continues
Date: 14 Sep 92 13:36:29 GMT
Article-I.D.: underdog.frank2.42
Organization: Wits Electrical Engineering (Undergrads).

The only television news service in South Africa, the state-owned SABC, is 
still being abused as a propaganda device by the government.

It certainly is a whole lot more subtle than in the days before the reforms 
started, when we were regularly exposed to melodramatic programmes 
expounding the evils of the Communist Terrorist Atheist ANC Threat. Now, 
under a clever shroud of apparent even-handedness, the news manipulataion 
continues.

On the main evening news broadcast on the day of the Bisho massacre, very 
little informative footage of the actual incident was shown. Scenes of the 
march towards the "border", a crowd climbing a fence, running or huddled 
people during the firing and bloodied bodies after the shooting were shown. 
The Star, one of South Africa's largest daily newspapers, observed that 
overseas networks (I'm not sure which) gave their veiwers a far more 
complete impression of the incident.

In the same broadcast, de Klerk, Botha (Mister of Foreign Affairs) and 
Kriel (Minister of Law and Order) were all given air time to expound the 
government's condemnation of the ANC for the event. In contrast, only one 
ANC official (Tshwete) was shown making a statement - and then only giving 
comment on a sit-in in Bisho and not the massacre. It is common for the SABC 
to give much air time to government or government-aligned officials, while 
frequently only selectively quoting opposition statements. This was the 
pattern throughout the whole length of the three-month hospital strike, the 
teachers strike, etc, etc, etc.

The SABC cleverly shows selected pieces of footage to achieve their 
political ends. A scene showing Kasrils, a senior ANC/SACP official, smiling 
broadly next to the razor wire has been shown repeatedly together with the 
massacre footage. It appears from the SABC news presentation as if he is 
totally insensitive to the killings, or is even pleased with the events - as 
many have commented after watching the news. Meanwhile, that scene was 
shot *before* the shooting when the march organisers and observers still 
believed that such an incident could never happen.

There certainly have been examples of fair and open reporting and 
interviewing on SABC. The most notable example was the "Agenda" programme on 
the state-funding of Inkatha scandal, where even cabinet ministers were 
directly challenged. Sadly, the interviewing there was conducted by 
independant press reporters and not SABC staff.

So long as the government (present or future) maintains unilateral control 
over the SABC, there will be little chance of it not being abused as a 
propaganda instrument to serve that government's interests.
Newsgroups: soc.culture.african
From: gavan@elc.mth.uct.ac.za (Gavan Tredoux)
Subject: Re: Bisho Massacre
Date: Fri, 11 Sep 92 17:49:28 GMT
Organization: University of Cape Town
X-Newsreader: Tin 1.1 PL4

mark@uctvax.uct.ac.za writes:
: gavan@elc.mth.uct.ac.za (Gavan Tredoux) writes:
: > phjj@ruchem.ru.ac.za (Justin Jonas) writes:
: > : Gavan, is of course, an authority on the situation in Ciskei, living in
: > : nearby Cape Town.  He presumably gets his account of the massacre from
: > : the TV news, or perhaps he has a hotline to Gqozo himself.  I personally
: > : know that Chris has spent a good deal of time in the Ciskei region and
: > : is well aquainted with the situation there.  
: > 
: > Well, Cape Town isn't THAT far away. No, I'm no authority on the Cikei,
: > but Brenner's stuff can be spotted a mile away, even from Cape Town. It
: > contradicts all press reports, eg "no provocation", is tendentious and
: > leaves half the story out. 
: 
: What a lie!  I have half a dozen eyewitness press reports that state 
: exactly that the shooting was entirely unjustified. 

Nobody (not even the Ciskei govt) claims the shootings were JUSTIFIED,
just that they weren't simply a random senseless act, but rather
a response to a situation created by the marchers deviating from the
route stipulated. Not a JUSTIFIED response but a response nonetheless.
And not a response that the ANC found entirely unsuitable for their
purposes. The Ciskei govt was simply playing into their hands, this is
what they wanted.

Gavan Tredoux
UCT
Newsgroups: soc.culture.african
From: poam@giraffe.ru.ac.za (AK MARQUARD)
Subject: Re: Bisho Massacre
Organization: Rhodes University, Grahamstown, South Africa
Date: Fri, 11 Sep 1992 10:30:16 GMT

In article <1992Sep10.205713.3513@ucthpx.uct.ac.za> gavan@elc.mth.uct.ac.za (Gavan Tredoux) writes:
>From: gavan@elc.mth.uct.ac.za (Gavan Tredoux)
>Subject: Re: Bisho Massacre
>Date: Thu, 10 Sep 92 20:57:13 GMT
>phjj@ruchem.ru.ac.za (Justin Jonas) writes:
>: Gavan, is of course, an authority on the situation in Ciskei, living in
>: nearby Cape Town.  He presumably gets his account of the massacre from
>: the TV news, or perhaps he has a hotline to Gqozo himself.  I personally
>: know that Chris has spent a good deal of time in the Ciskei region and
>: is well aquainted with the situation there.  
>
>Well, Cape Town isn't THAT far away. No, I'm no authority on the Cikei,
>but Brenner's stuff can be spotted a mile away, even from Cape Town. It
>contradicts all press reports, eg "no provocation", is tendentious and
>leaves half the story out. 
>
>Gavan Tredoux
>UCT

From several eyewitnesses which I know who were at Bisho at the time (one of 
whom was hit by a bullet), it would seem that Chris Brenner's story is 100%
accurate, as is his info on the Ciskei Defence Force. It did NOT contradict 
press reports, but did contradict Gqozo's statement (as did journalists, 
local and international who were shot at) and some of the coverage on the 
SABC - what exactly does "Gavan" mean when he says "can be spotted a mile 
away"? I can't imagine. I find it odd that this erstwhile "champion" of 
free and accurate speech should be so quick to write off sucha 
comprehensive report without even an acurate reading of wither the report 
or the press coverage. This seems to be a tendency at UCT, or is it just 
confined to the maths and philosophy departments? Does "Gavan" think 
that everyone who was there except Gqoza (who was only there for a few 
minutes after the event) is lying, in a mass conspiracy? Who knows?

Andrew Marquard, Political Studies Dept Rhodes University
 
Newsgroups: soc.culture.african
From: gds@casper.cs.uct.ac.za (Riel Smit)
Subject: Re: Exclusivity of "Die Stem"
Reply-To: gds@cs.uct.ac.za
Organization: Computer Science Department, University of Cape Town
Date: Wed, 9 Sep 1992 09:51:14 GMT

barrett@daisy.ee.und.ac.za (Alan P Barrett) writes:
>gds@cs.uct.ac.za writes:
>> The simple point I was trying to make is that, if one only look at
>> the words without regarding the emotions and history that comes with
>> Die Stem, then Die Stem in its official English translation is not as
>> exclusive white Afrikaner as people make it out to be.

>I agree.  However, it is difficult to ignore the emotions and history.

Yup, as with many things that is the pity.

>OA> Waar en trou as Afrikaners - kinders van Suid-Afrika.
>OE> Our enduring love and service to thy honour and thy name.
>rs> True and faithful as Afrikaners - children of South Africa.

>Translating the afrikaans word ``Afrikaners'' to the english word
>``Africans'' would be at least as valid as translating it to the english
>word ``Afrikaners'', especially if one were looking only at the words
>while ignoring the emotions and history.

You know, I was tempted to do that, but expected some people to accuse me
of misrepresentation.  But, yes, "African" is what this afrikaner has in
mind when he calls himself that (but TRUE Afrikaners would probably use the
term "Afrikaan" for African - I don't care, then I am an Afrikaan :-).
Just a pity that so many Afrikaners, while regarding themselves as truely 
"from Africa", somehow want to set themselves apart from other Africans.
-- 
Riel Smit,  Computer Science                              gds@cs.uct.ac.za
University of Cape Town                      gds%cs.uct.ac.za@rain.psg.com
Newsgroups: soc.culture.african,soc.culture.filipino,soc.culture.taiwan,soc.culture.hongkong,soc.culture.indian,soc.culture.vietnamese
From: shaze@cs.ubc.ca (Scott Hazelhurst)
Subject: Re: Figures on Violence - Controversy Grows
Organization: Computer Science, University of B.C., Vancouver, B.C., Canada
Date: Sun, 13 Sep 92 18:13:20 GMT


1. John Kane-Berman has clear political alignments. This doesn't
   make him a stooge of Inkatha. It does however make the
   attack on HRC politically motivated. Someone who sets themself
   up as a  watchdog on public affairs needs to be above the
   partisanship which K-B has been  involved in if they (or 
   Gavan) wants them to be treated as unimpeachable sources. 
2. I retract the suggestion that the SAIRR is under the control
   of  Inkatha. However, the function that the SAIRR plays is
   to pump out anti-ANC propaganda, and it is not even handed
   in its  criticisms of the political players, and I do not
   accept them as anywhere  near objective. 
3. Gavan's original posting was a short summary of the SAIRR
   report and an assurance from Gavan that it was meticulously
   argued and researched. If anyone else had quoted from 
   another source and given a similar assurance, the
   criticisms from Gavan would have been scorching. This is
   not the first time we have been treated to the SAIRR being
   given as an unimpeachable source. 
4. I do  not have access to the SAIRR documentation. I would
   encourage Gavan  to go through the  SAIRR documentation
   since 1990 to do an analysis of their coverage, and to
   report back. 

Finally Gavan criticises me by saying
>interviews etc). And I read this crap expecting some sort of ARGUMENT.
> 

He then illustrates what he means by ARGUMENT.

>Because of the slight chance that someone might mistake your passing water
>for valid comment. And because you amuse me. And because I would rather convert
>you to a bleeding-nose liberal. And because you give liberalism - a fine
>tradition - a bad name. And because I have met more than enough Scotts in
>the corridors of UCT admin, all powder puff and no spunk. And because I am
>deeply in love with you.

I give up, I know when I've seen an ARGUMENT I can't beat.

Newsgroups: soc.culture.african
From: Steve.Hayes@f20.n7101.z5.fidonet.org (Steve Hayes)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.african
Subject: The the Xhosa dominated ANC
Date: Tue, 08 Sep 92 10:11:00 GMT
Organization: FidoNet node 5:7101/20 - Unisa Editorial, Pretoria

In a note of <27 Aug 1992 20:24>, Gavan Tredoux (5:7104/2) wrote:

 GT>The people you've met. It'll look good in your autobiography,
 GT>but it tells us nothing about the ANC. They have close to zero
 GT>white support, 20% coloured, 10-20% Indian, and the rest 
 GT>black.
 GT>Domination of the Nat Exec by Xhosas is easy to establish - 
 GT>get a list
 GT>and work through them. Historical domination and 
 GT>*disproportionate*
 GT>Xhosa support is just as easy to establish. Moreover, it's common
 GT>cause in SA politics.

I suppose the Ciskei government consists of Zulus who were brutally attacked 
by the Xhosa ANC hordes yesterday.



--  
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Newsgroups: soc.culture.african
From: Wally.Walters@p0.f20.n7101.z5.fidonet.org (Wally Walters)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.african
Subject: Re: Killing (Masacre) in South-Africa
Date: Sun, 13 Sep 92 22:00:00 GMT
Organization: FidoNet node 5:7101/20.0 - Unisa Editorial, Pretoria

 GTH> I watched in shock at the pictures of the massacre in Ciskei (sp)

You seem to think it didn't look "shocking" here!

 GTH> business like statement which "Mr." deKlerk issued after the massacre.

What he "actually" said probably didn't make a half way decent
"sound bite (byte)".

 GTH> Being in this far removed country and with very limited News I am not

What happened to CNN? Almost everything we saw here came from "uncle Ted",
including the "Jeez that's a mortar ... I tell you it's a f***ing mortar"
(sound bite).

 GTH> most cold blooded "human being" is the leader of Ciskei.

Yes, agree 100%, but I would add Ronnie Kasrils and a few other
"lesser known brands" to the statement.

 GTH> is going to happen next.

More of the same - the politicians have got it in hand!

Pax
Wally

--  
INTERNET: Wally.Walters@p0.f20.n7101.z5.fidonet.org
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Newsgroups: soc.culture.african
From: prp@chulkn.chula.ac.th ("Ms. Puangpen Rayabphand - TIC Chula BKK")
Newsgroups: soc.culture.thai
Subject: Election Watch from Thailand - Nation 08/09/92
Date: 7 Sep 92 06:41:03 GMT
X-Received: by usenet.pa.dec.com; id AA20359; Mon, 7 Sep 92 00:01:12 -0700
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X-Mime-Version: 1.0
X-Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

OUTSIDERS IN CABINET FAVOURED FOUR ASPIRANTS FOR PREMIERSHIP
WANT NON-MPS TO RUN KEY ECONOMIC MINISTRIES

Four Prime Minister hopefuls said last night they will invite
non-politicians to take control of key economic portfolios in
the government to be formed after the Sept 13 election. The
Finance Ministry is one of the portfolios most of them agreed
should be run by "outsiders"


CHUAN: NO TALKS HELD YET ON GOVT

Democrat Party leader Chuan Leekpai yesterday said the four
former opposition parties have not yet discussed setting up
a government after the election


CHAMLONG'S TOUGH STAND DRAWS FLAW FROM FLESH TRADE

The plan of Palang Dharma Party de facto leader Chamlong Srimuang
to get tough on prostitution is seen as a brave move, given the 
fact that it is certain to ignite controversy and draw tough opposition
from many involved in the flesh trade
From: prp@chulkn.chula.ac.th ("Ms. Puangpen Rayabphand - TIC Chula BKK")
Newsgroups: soc.culture.thai
Subject: Thailand 's gateway for Internet - BKK  Post 09/09/92
Date: 9 Sep 92 06:07:40 GMT
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X-Mime-Version: 1.0
X-Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

CHULA OPENS LINK TO INTERNET IN US

Chulalongkorn University is now Thailand's gateway for Internet
with dedicated, leased line connecting equipment at the university's
Center for Academic Resource to UUNET(Aternet) in Verginia in the
United States. This 9600 bps(bits per second) link finally puts
Thailand on the global roadmap of Internet, which contains a wealth
ofinformation and news in thousands of databases and conferences around
the world. Dr. Yunyong Teng-amnuay who has been working on this project
along with Prof Charumatr Pinthong established the connection,enabled
with equipment borrowed from several computer companies in Bangkok
and the United States. Dr.Yunyong noted that the link is now in an
experimental stage, and is for academic and research purposes-but already
400 users, although not all are active. 
Newsgroups: soc.culture.thai
From: godfrey@sscvx1.ssc.gov (LAURENCE GODFREY)
Subject: Re: Can anyone explain to me....
Followup-To: soc.culture.thai
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.4-b1  
Organization: Superconducting Super Collider Laboratory
Date: Mon, 14 Sep 1992 19:59:00 GMT

>no television in the village (as is the case in most villages off the
>beaten track) and I became an attraction when I sat down in the evenings to
>listen to the BBC shortwave.
> 

I admit that the villages I have visited have all been in Northern and
cenrral Thailand, where TVs are ubiquitous.

>There was a magazine circulating depicting Suchinda as a Raven and
>containing many explicit pictures of what had occurred in May. Along with
>many stories in Thai script. (Which I am not yet proficient at)
> 
>The people;
>         a) Could not Read.
>         b) Refused to read it!
>      or c) Read it and held the belief that it was all the fault of the
>            protestors!
> 
>"If they had not demonstrated they would not have been Shot" To quote one
>person.

Yes I too have encountered precisely this sort of logic in Thailand.  If
he had not asked for the money owed then he wouldn't have been shot, if he
had not asked that question then he wouldn't have heard an answer he did
not like, if he hadn't owned a video recorder then he would not have been
robbed etc.

> 
> 
>The political awareness in rural Thailand is a world away from that in
>Bangkok.
> 
If the election in these areas was carried out in the way I suspect, then
I doubt that there is any political awareness at all.
>> 
> 
>Tom Mc Neill
Laurence
Newsgroups: soc.culture.thai
From: h2n5451@sigma.tamu.edu (NOBOA, HOMERO L.)
Subject: Network nodes in Bangkok
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41    
Organization: Texas A&M University, Academic Computing Services
Date: Wed, 9 Sep 1992 17:21:00 GMT

Hi there. I'm an Ecuadorean student and happen I have a sister living 
and working in a hospital in Bangkok. If you know how to communicate 
with Thailand via network, ftp, mail, please let me know.

Thanks 


Homero
From: fyta@chulkn.CHula.ac.TH (Dr. Yunyong Teng-amnuay)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.thai
Subject: A morning on Election Day
Date: 13 Sep 1992 09:37:23 +1000
Organization: Mail/News gateway
NNTP-Posting-Host: munnari.oz.au

6.30am BKK time (GMT+7):

There got to be some facinating changes in Thai politics today.
I am all set to go out casting my vote.  And not only myself.
The caravan (our little Mitsubishi) will be packed full with my
wife, my two little ladies, my mother-in-law and my
sister-in-law.  We have to move fast since I expect people to
come out in the street in droves due to the heavy propaganda by
Jaw Saw Roay "Witayu Kao Sarnnn.. Lae Karn Charajohnnn...".

All four of us have to go to three constituencies to cast our
votes.  The ballot box closes at 3pm.  So it will be a hectic
day for us.

We are choosing our New Prime Minister today.  Yesterday the
constitutional amendment requiring the prime minister to be a
Member of Parliament is promulgated in the Royal Gazette.  It is
in effect as of today.  So the party leader that has the most
seats will be the next PM.  But who knows...

At least we are going out there for the first time in droves (at
least for my house).  We are going to vote for Democrat Party
eventhough they will lose in Bangkok to Palang Tham Party.  But
at least my mother-in-law has switched from Palang Tham to
Democrat.  A minor victory :)

Wish us luck (my house to beat the traffic and our country to beat
the "Nam Sear").

Yunyong or fyta

Dr. Yunyong Teng-amnuay
Center of Academic Resources		Voice:	(662) 218 2925
Chulalongkorn University		Fax:	(662) 215 3617
Phyathai Rd., Bangkok 10330, Thailand	Internet: fyta@chulkn.chula.ac.th

Newsgroups: soc.culture.thai
From: godfrey@sscvx1.ssc.gov (LAURENCE GODFREY)
Subject: Can anyone explain to me....
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.4-b1  
Organization: Superconducting Super Collider Laboratory
Date: Mon, 14 Sep 1992 00:44:00 GMT

Can anyone explain to me why the democracy party did not get swept into
power with an overwhelming majority of votes?  Did those who died
lay down their lives for nothing?

Laurence

Newsgroups: soc.culture.thai
From: godfrey@sscvx1.ssc.gov (LAURENCE GODFREY)
Subject: Re: thaielection
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.4-b1  
Organization: Superconducting Super Collider Laboratory
Date: Mon, 14 Sep 1992 04:31:00 GMT

In article <1992Sep14.025844.986@news2.cis.umn.edu>, mbuntan@epx.cis.umn.edu ()                writes...
>I don't mind if the poor accept the money they are given
>because they deserve it.  However, they need not vote for those devils.
>Thian

I assume that those who sell their votes are either shepherded to the voting
place, or have their voting papers taken from them and filled in by someone
else.  Otherwise, perhaps they are afraid of repercussions if they do not
vote in the agreed way.

Laurence

Newsgroups: soc.culture.thai
From: noi@cs.mu.OZ.AU (Nittida Nuansri)
Subject: Re: SSsssssssssssssssssssss
Organization: Computer Science, University of Melbourne, Australia
Date: Sun, 13 Sep 1992 08:16:34 GMT

mech411@csc.canterbury.ac.nz writes:

>I remember during the May Crackdown Khun Yongyuth of the Nation and Khun Komol
>(sorry, if the name is wrong) of BKK Post used to post a lot.  But, now there 
>is no news from both. 

I've gathered that both of them (Khun Yongyut and Khun Kamol) are not in
Thailand at this period.  That why we haven't got any article from them 
fro a while.

However, htk-Thaweesak- is back to his terminal and he promise to send us
articles to inform us as much as possible.

This is part of the message he sent me a while ago...

"...............

>Hello!  I have been back from the world tour since Sep. 8.
>I am now deeply involved in the PollWatch operations.
>Since yongyuth and Kamol are not in Thailand at this moment,
>I will try to send news to you from the PollWatch office and from home.
>Perhaps, tonight's news are going to be wanted by our readers abroad.
>If possible, may I ask for some more polls in order to post news
>during the score reporting period (1500 THI 13 Sep to about 0400 THI of 14 Sep
>1992).   May I suggest the following polling time (THI)?
>1300 1700 1900 2100 2300  0100  0300  0700
>I am posting four or five pieces of news for the 1300 poll.
........................"

We will try to get news from Bkk end to support s.c.thai readers as best as
we can do.  (We have to make a dialup connection to ipied to tansmit nes
from their since they have a problem of the internal link between Thammasat
and Chula.  The link doesn't work well yet, so we will try from the old
channel which quite succeeded in May.

>This is a 'something missing', I think, and probably this that makes SCT
>so quiet.  Please post us some news if you have time.

Yes, it's something missing, but won't be long., they will come back.

Nittida