HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: btlee@emx.cc.utexas.edu (Anitesh Barua)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.taiwan
Subject: A Korean view on ROC/ROK/PRC relationship
Date: 5 Sep 92 19:42:42 GMT
Organization: The University of Texas at Austin; Austin, Texas

Just for my curiosity!	
We have been discussing a  lot about recent ROK's shift to PRC and consequent resentment among Taiwaneses.   Some of them maintainted that taiwaneses are accusing not because of diplomatic shift itself but because of ways of doing so. Is there anyone who can summerize reasons in detail? 
Some information from Korean side:(I can not verify them personnally)
(1)   Korean government gave notice to ROC government in a week advance, not just 5 hours.   However,  that confidential information was relieased by some angry ROC senators.     
(2)  The accusation of that ROK provide $200 mil. economic aids to PRC is totally not true but was invented by ROC's side in order to give the impression that  ROK governement bought new friend while betraying old friend.		
(3)  Selling of embassy peroperty by ROC governemnt was blocked by not only ROK government but also many "PRO-PRC" chinese in Seoul.
(4)  Unprecedently speedy normailization of tie with PRC was initiated by PRC rather than ROK.  Since Korean's joining in U.N,  there have been three times foreign ministers' meeting between China and S. Korea.   According to Seoul, it was the third meeting that PRC informed her intention of normatization which was far earlier than Korea had expected.  Some analaysts are saying that PRC may be afraied of Clinton's winning in USA presidential election then tention will be  unavoidable.   

The reason why I am listing these is that they are slightly different from what I heard from this network.  I do condemn Korean government for its amaturism and Roh's privatizing of important diplomatic issues. However, any accusation should be based on truth.

Another  point:  The main press opinion which I read from major Korean new paper is that we should have done more gently and nicely and it should be the most urgent and important task for "next government" to develop desirable relationship with ROC.  

MY APOLOGY: In the last posting, I mentioned about "GIRLS" in Taipei. I got fierce response for it and I think I deserve it.  What I intent was that I likes ROC and know something. That example was selected insensibley and wrongly to show my nice business experience in Taipei.   Please accept my apology.

Still I admire and respect all people who overcomed inhereted poverty and achieved a lot. Even we have many problems, I think I can categorize taiwan and s. korea in this group.  Yes! as you pointed out, maybe Korean cars still have inferior quality. However, that's why we sell it in lower price. Think about it, anyway Korea is one of only "FEW" countires which can "produce" and it has been only "One decade" comapring to "one centry" of Japanese automobile history. You did in PC industry too! Isn't it some

thing to be proud of?
Good competition brings improvement and we have been good competitiors and will be. Have a nice day!    Byungtae Lee
From: ccliu@amy.next.com (Chang-Chi Liu)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.taiwan
Subject: cheers and encouragement for Mr. ROT
Date: 15 Sep 92 20:04:58 GMT

Mr. ROT spent a lot of time expressing his opinions.  His postings remind  
me of a story about probability theory.  If we have a  monkey keep hitting  
a keyboard long enough, it may enventually produce a Shakespeare work.  Be  
patient, my fellow netters.
Newsgroups: soc.culture.taiwan
From: shchen@eos.ncsu.edu 
Subject: Re: News readers from ROT(Re: Hello from news reader in China)
Originator: shchen@c00535-106ps.eos.ncsu.edu
Reply-To: shchen@eos.ncsu.edu 
Organization: North Carolina State University, Project Eos
Date: Wed, 9 Sep 1992 21:13:47 GMT


In article <63780007@acf3.NYU.EDU>, yangze@acf3.NYU.EDU (Ze Yang, , , ) writes:
|>
|>ghe@nyx.cs.du.edu (George He) writes:
|>
|>>If what Mr. Yang said is true --- CCP's crash brings major disorder
|>>to mainland, why would Taiwanese choose to unify with a more messy mainland,
|>>even though it's lousy enough now?
|>
|>You think Taiwanese can choose everything they want, that is wrong `
|>at the first place, you have to play the game according the rules, right?
|>just like the Southern states of the USA don't have the freedom of suceding,
|>Taiwan can not do that either. You might say the southern states
|>did choose sucede from the Union before the Civil War, but the
|>Union "chose" fight to keep the Union.
|>
|>Ze Yang
|>

Bad analogy, Zeoron.  The Nation of Taiwan has always been politically 
and geographically independent from China and it always will.  Keep your 
Chinese trash in the mainland where it belong.
Newsgroups: soc.culture.taiwan
From: g803352@phys.nthu.edu.tw (Chia-hei Yang(Jow-Tsong Shy))
Subject: It's Moon Festivial
Organization: National Tsing Hua University (HsinChu)
Date: Thu, 10 Sep 1992 05:33:05 GMT

	Wish You Hvae the Luck to appreciate Moon tomorrow night!

				Yang Chia-Hei
Newsgroups: soc.culture.taiwan
From: ghe@nyx.cs.du.edu (George He)
Subject: Re: Territory of Ancient China : Qing Dynasty
X-Disclaimer: Nyx is a public access Unix system run by the University
	of Denver for the Denver community.  The University has neither
	control over nor responsibility for the opinions of users.
Organization: Nyx, Public Access Unix at U. of Denver Math/CS dept.
Date: Tue, 8 Sep 92 15:53:18 GMT

In article <63780002@acf3.NYU.EDU> yangze@acf3.NYU.EDU (Ze Yang, , , ) writes:
>dht@cs.mu.OZ.AU (Joyous Dave baby) writes:
>
>>**Period:
>
>>1636 A.D. -> 1919 A.D.
>
>>**Dynasty:
>
>>**Area under Central Control:
>
>>.....
>
>Joyous, You did a great job here by giving those islanders
>a much wide sight field.
>
>Ze Yang

Mr. Yang: You are definitely a big China chauvinism PIG.  period.
From: eaeu228@orion.oac.uci.edu (Steven Wei Wu)
Subject: Re: Republic of Formosa(correction)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.taiwan
Organization: University of California, Irvine
Date: 8 Sep 92 01:52:21 GMT

In article <92Sep07.154428.19990@acs.ucalgary.ca> bauwens@acs.ucalgary.ca (Luc Bauwens) writes:
>In article <1992Sep6.100250.29793@csd.brispoly.ac.uk> c_tsai@csd.brispoly.ac.uk (C Tsai) writes:
>>
>>.... but although the Formosa is Spanish name....
>
>Wrong.
>
>It's not Spanish, it's Portuguese.
>
>Luc B
>
Hi:
I have to make a correction. Before I wrote that "Formosa" is a Dutch
name. Well, I was wrong.
The fact is that in 1590, Portuguese named the island "Ilha Formosa".
Sorry guys!
Roger.





Newsgroups: soc.culture.taiwan
From: claudius@leland.Stanford.EDU (Nelson Lu)
Subject: Re: Question about TI
Followup-To: alt.flame
Organization: DSG, Stanford University, CA 94305, USA
Date: Sun, 13 Sep 92 06:55:54 GMT

In article <BuI2L5.GLL@rlyeh.multisys.com> rot@multisys.com (Republic of Taiwan) writes:

>I certainly did not paint non-TIers as KMT supporters, but I
>wonder why you said that?

Because, right after I pointed out your racism in calling Mandarin-speakers
"barbarians," you accused me of catering to the KMT?
>
>Hate me? Do I worth you to hate? Or you just a hateful person?
>No wonder Saint Marry cried and cries.

She cries because you kept spelling her name wrong.  (It's *Mary*.)
>
>Please do not make up something, just because full of hate!

"Full of hate" has no subject in your sentence.  I don't hate you.  Whether
if you hate me is a different question.

And no, I can safely say that I didn't make up the fact that you called
Mandarin speakers "barbarians."
Newsgroups: soc.culture.taiwan
From: rot@multisys.com (Republic of Taiwan)
Subject: Re: Question about TI
Keywords: "Taiwanese"?  "Mainlanders"?
Organization: Multimedia Information Systems Corporation, San Jose, CA                        TEL: (408) 436-8929            E-mail: info@multisys.com
Date: Sun, 6 Sep 1992 07:50:56 GMT

In article <1992Sep2.012328.7757@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu> pchang@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (Pei-Yuan Chang) writes:
= Hi, I am not asking for arguments, I really have a question for friends
=discussing TI.  Please e-mail me if you would like to share your thoughts with 
=me.  (Please don't persuade me to support anything, no matter TI or the KMT, 
=it's not my purpose).
=
= OK, let me get this straight: I wrote a long paper this qaurter about TW
=arousing discussions on TI in the class.  I'm just curious about the following
=statement in the whole TI idea: why "mainlanders" should be kicked out of the
=island after TI?

Are you making this up? Or it is a trick from CCP or KMT?

If people is citizen of ROT, who dares to kick he or she out?
I guess you suffer a lot from KMT's and CCP's brutal governing
which makes you believe Taiwanese will never have a democratic
government eletected by the pople.

We should get rid of KMT's and CCP's terrible nightmare
and rebuild Taiwanese future without their bad influence.

=
= Some of my friends said that it's only a kind of political appealing.  Well, I
=am not so optimistic.  Both of my parents are "mainlanders", coming to TW
=around 1949, so I am surely a "pure mainlander".  Am I?  I was born in TW and

49-ers, you mean.

Who makes you believe that you are a 'pure mainlander'?
Why you want to believe that you are a 'pure mainlander'?
If the Chinese(real mainlander) calls you Taiwanese, why
you still insist that you are a 'pure mainlander'?

=had lived there for over 20 years.  Shouldn't I be a Taiwanese?  I love TW and
=have no feeling for the Mainland China, so how can I be regarded as a
=mainlander (or ex-provine)?

You have to make up your mind all by yourself. I am not here
to tell you what you should believe which means I am not a
KMT-er or CCP-er who always tell people what CCP and KMT
want you to believe.

=
= The only thing makes me so "different" is my "terrible" pronunciation of
=Tiawanese (however, I can speak fluent Taiwanese while saying dirty words, ha!)
=and the time my parents came to TW, which was 200 years late than the ancestors
=of those so-called "pure Taiwanese".

You mean HoLo. Who said you have to speak HoLo fluently in order
to be a Taiwanese? There has no 'pure' on this Earth.

=
= I just got the following feelings: some TI supporters think that ex-province
=people equal to the KMT.  Oh, my god!  Kill me please!

I guess you have to read very carefully what they really mean.
Yes, indeed, A lot of WSRs suffers from KMT bugheads' bad
reputation, since most of the bugheads are WSR.
But if you classify yourself as BSR, then the so call WSR
will be those bugheads who insist of owning their Tibet,
Mongolia and Mainland China.

=
= I am not coming for arguments.  No personal attacks, thanks!
=
=--Christine


Newsgroups: soc.culture.taiwan
From: elelyc@nuscc.nus.sg (Y.C. Liang)
Subject: News 10/9/92
Organization: National Univ of Singapore
Source: The Straits Times
Date: Thu, 10 Sep 1992 02:35:44 GMT


TAIPEI COURT ISSUES WARRANT FOR ARREST OF TYCOON

TAIPEI -- A Taiwanese court issued a warrant for the arrest of business
tycoon Oung Ta-ming on Monday after he failed to appear in court on
charges of involvement in the island's biggest stock scandal.  An arrest
warrant was also issued for Oung's secretary, Lee Hsiu-fen.

Court officials searched their homes but they could not be found, a
court spokesman said.

Oung, 42, head of the Hualon textile group, and his younger brother Oung
You-ming, chairman of Hualon Corp, were charged last year with breach of
trust and document forgery over a US$22 million stock scandal.

The younger Oung was released on NT$1 million bail in May last year
pending the start of his trial.  He subsequently jumped bail and fled
from the country.  According to Taiwanese newspapers, he is now running
a Hualon subsidiary in Malaysia.

-ooOoo-

KOREAN SHIPS LOSE TAIWAN-JAPAN ROUTE

TAIPEI -- Taiwan, which broke diplomatic ties with South Korea last
month, will ban Korean shipping firms from operating on the Taiwan-Japan
route from next Tuesday, official said.

The ban is being imposed because Seoul has long prohibited Taiwanese
ships from serving the South Korea-Japan route, said Mr. David Yang,
chairman of the National Association of Chinese Shipowners.

A senior official in the Communication Ministry confirmed the ban.

-ooOoo-

TAIPEI AND RUSSIA TO SWAP OFFICES

TAIPEI -- Taiwan and Russia have agreed to exchange unofficial
representative offices, marking an end to four decades of hostility,
Taiwan's foreign ministry said earlier.

Taipei would open offices in Moscow, St Petersburg and Vladivostok in
the near future, while Russia will establish them in Taipei and
Kaohsoung, Vice Foreign Minister John Chang said.

-ooOoo-

US TELLS TAIWAN NOT TO BUY FRENCH MIRAGES

WASHINGTON -- The United States has indicated that it would not be
pleased if France sold Mirage fighter jets to Taiwan, and is pressing
Taiwan to cancel the proposed US$2.6 billion deal.

State Department spokesman Richard Boucher on Tuesday said the US F-16s
that Taiwan had agreed to purchase were sufficient for its defence.  The
spokesman would not say whether Washington had discussed the issue with
Paris.

US Assistant Secretary of State William Clark left China on Tuesday
after failing to clam Beijing's anger over the planned sale during talks
on Monday.

In Taipei, the United Daily News yesterday quoted un-named sources as
saying that Washington had told Taipei to cancel the French sale.

-ooOoo-

WEATHER

Taipei  - 25/33 C - Cloudy
Hongkong- 27/31 C - Clear
Beijing - 16/30 C - Clear

-ooOoo-
From: chchang@acsu.buffalo.edu (Chun-Shi Chang)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.taiwan
Subject: "Report from Taiwan" in Byte magazine
Date: 5 Sep 92 03:55:29 GMT
Organization: State University of New York at Buffalo/Comp Sci

Check out the article entitled: "A flirtation with innovation" which 
appears in the September 1992 issue of Byte (page. 44).

The author was in Taiwan to observe Computex, Taiwan's largest computer
exhibition.

There are several surprises in this article: 
(1) In 1991, Taiwan accounted for 6% of Asia's PC shipment, but Taiwan
    received only 2% of the $1.5 billion in sale.
(2) In 1991, Taiwan's computer companies spent only 11.2 million in R&D.
(3) In 1991, less than 50% of the Taiwanese PC carried their own brand
    names.

Conlusion? Taiwan's computer compamies are still emphasizing on low-price
low-end OEM products. 

-Chunshi
Newsgroups: soc.culture.taiwan
From: bbs@medsys.rn.com (Public BBS System)
Subject: Re: Question about TI
Reply-To: bbs@medsys.UUCP (Public BBS System)
Organization: Med-Systems, Kingsport, Tennessee
Date: 05 Sep 1992 12:46:48 GMT

In article <3SEP199218385488@vtcc1.cc.vt.edu> laiichung@vtcc1.cc.vt.edu (L. D. ROPER) writes:
>
>   based on what I know : none of them claimed that TI will kick out of 
>   mainlanders . If you really heard of such kind of saying , please tell me 
>   where did you hear that . I keep hearing people talking about that TI will
>   get rid of mainlanders but none of my TI friends said that and I don't see
>   any TI organization announced that . But I just keep receiving those message
>   from KMT's publications , especially during election days .
>   TI won't kick out mainlanders because they thought they are also Taiwanese .
>   People in Taiwan are in the same boat , share the same fate . TI is the way
>   for the better future of Taiwan . That's what I know why those people ( me
>   also ) support TI .
>

Could you explain why this term "Zhong Guo Zu" (Chinese pig) appears
in some of the Pro-TI publication? Thank you.

Chou1
From: bsou@cs.arizona.edu (Brandon S. Ou)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.taiwan
Subject: Re: Need some Pen Friends
Date: 8 Sep 92 02:43:38 GMT
Organization: University of Arizona Computer Science Department

In article <1992Sep7.010259.19588@ulowell.ulowell.edu> cshi@cs.ulowell.edu (Chunde Shi) writes:
>In article <1992Sep6.122011.28700@csd.brispoly.ac.uk> c_tsai@csd.brispoly.ac.uk (C Tsai) writes:

>>   Name: Chi-Lih TSAI
>>   Age:  24
>>   Sex:  Male
>         You need a bitch! That is why you are crying for "friends".

Now now now, this is not a very nice thing to say... 

Brandon
Newsgroups: soc.culture.taiwan
From: claudius@leland.Stanford.EDU (Nelson Lu)
Subject: Re: News readers from ROT(Re: Hello from news reader in China)
Organization: DSG, Stanford University, CA 94305, USA
Date: Wed, 9 Sep 92 18:26:20 GMT

In article <BuBKLG.2L5@acsu.buffalo.edu> v999qx29@ubvmsd.cc.buffalo.edu writes:

>The analogy is not right. North fought South to release slaves. But if mainland
>fight Taiwan, they are to capture slaves. I wish mainland was as democratic as

Wrong.  If Abraham Lincoln had told his people, at the time, that the war was
to "liberate the slaves," he wouldn't have gotten much support for the war at
all.  Through *all* his speeches, he said that the war was waged to "preserve
the union."

For *Lincoln* (and the Republicans) freeing the slaves were certainly an
objective in waging the Civil War, but it wasn't even close to the sole
reason, and for the United States (the North) as a whole, "preserving the
union" would have to be viewed as the top reason why there was so much support
for the war.
Newsgroups: soc.culture.taiwan
From: rot@rlyeh.multisys.com (Republic of Taiwan)
Subject: Re: Question about TI
Organization: Multimedia Information Systems Corporation, San Jose, CA                        TEL: (408) 436-8929            E-mail: info@multisys.com
Date: Thu, 10 Sep 1992 09:51:21 GMT

In article <1992Sep4.155627.6823@engage.pko.dec.com> li@sicvax.enet.dec.com (Tong-Kang Li) writes:
=
=But recently I found that some of TIers often label people who have different
=opinion as "Taiwanese Traitor" (Tai2Chien1), etc nasty words. Chiu Chuang-Hwan 
=(former governor of Taiwan) is an example because of his support of indirect 
=Presidental election. These make me wondering what difference between KMT 
=character and TI character and whether after KMT is gone, other KMT-like 
=will come.

What do you expect from politicians? Taiwanese politicians are
no better than Bush and Clinton. That's why people has to whach
tose politicians closely and minimize their power as small as
possibe, because government and politicians are born to be evil.
They will try anyway to be evil and people has to try ayway
to prevent them and stop them.

=
=But I also feel confident about majority people on Taiwan. People these
=days are much better educated and more politically independent than before. 
=They will make a right choice. 

This is what I always said, let people decide their own future.
Taiwanese need not KMT, CCP, DDP or whatever tell them what
to do. Let's have a democratic system, a population vote,
a fair election system and let people elect their own
government, let people decide they want to change the name
of the country or not, let people decide they want to
own Tibet, Mainland China and Mongolia or not.

=
=Tom
From: rot@multisys.com (Republic of Taiwan)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.taiwan
Subject: Re: Who Cares 150 F-16s.
Date: 12 Sep 1992 21:44:03 -0500
Organization: Multimedia Information Systems Corporation, San Jose, CA                        TEL: (408) 436-8929            E-mail: info@multisys.com
NNTP-Posting-Host: cs.utexas.edu

In article <1992Sep13.005750.22943@cs.rochester.edu> zhang@cs.rochester.edu (Zhang Ju) writes:
=
=As long as those fighter jets are not used in a war among Chinese, we
=should feel happy that the military might of Chinese is increased by
=150 F-16 and 60 Mirrage jets.
=
=In the minds of oversea Chinese, there is a de facto Commonwealth of
=China, consisting of China, Taiwan, Hong Kong, Macau and Singarpore. 
=May it be prosperous and strengthful.

Do not forget, Syberia, Montery Park, San Francisco China Town,
L.A. China Town, New York China Town....   ;-)

=
=Unfortunately, the fate of every Chinese is more or less tied to it.

What is 'it'?

=
=Ju Zhang


Newsgroups: soc.culture.taiwan
From: rot@rlyeh.multisys.com (Republic of Taiwan)
Subject: Re: Language
Organization: Multimedia Information Systems Corporation, San Jose, CA                        TEL: (408) 436-8929            E-mail: info@multisys.com
Date: Thu, 10 Sep 1992 10:12:53 GMT

In article <1992Sep4.124023.3689@vax.muskingum.edu> ericlaw@vax.muskingum.edu (Eric Law, Geology Department) writes:
=In article <BtynsD.40p@multisys.com>, rot@multisys.com (Republic of Taiwan) writes:
=> 
=> So, Ho is Huan-Ho(Yellow river) and Lo is Lo-Sway(Lo water).
=> 
=
=	** So the Holo is Chinese. YOU are a Chinese.
	** So the Chicken is a chicken. YOU are a chicken.

I don't know why people waste their time on this?
I don't know why I am doing this?  ;-(
Because of a chicken?

=> 
=> PS. The only river Han called 'river' is  'Yellow  river'.   Next
=> biggest  river they called it 'Gorn' (HaGa or HoLo pronunciation,
=> let those Mandarian speaking barbarians learn the beauty  of  the
=> real  Han)  Then  they call the next one as 'Ssui' or 'Zui'(zoo -
=> e), which is water in Hanzi.
=
=	** This is a very bad PS. It ruins all you credentials.
=	   I bet you flunked your Chinese Geography. 

What credentials did I have? Better than yours and is this
why you so worry about it?   ;-(

=
=	   Hay, do you know where is Dan4 Sui3 Her2 in Taiwan? 

You must have flunked your Geography all the time.

=
=> Sorry, one way to increase the self-confidence of our mother tone is
=> degrade the oppressor.
=
=	** I think by this time, you should lose all your confidence
=	   about geography. 

I do know Eric was killed by his own StoneBringer.


Newsgroups: soc.culture.taiwan
From: li@sicvax.enet.dec.com (Tong-Kang Li)
Subject: Re: BSR and WSR
Organization: Digital Equipment Corporation
Date: Mon, 14 Sep 1992 16:52:59 GMT


In article <BuJvss.15G@rlyeh.multisys.com>, rot@multisys.com (Republic of Taiwan) writes...
>
>KMT always can argue that KMT is the god, KMT's law
>can not be changed, KMT's constitution can not be
>changed, KMT's government structure can not be
>changed....

I never heard KMT calling herself as god. Where did you hear this, Mr. ROT?

ROC laws and constitution have been changing in the past several years.
You must been sleeping for several years or blind-minded. Time for reading,
Mr. ROT.

Xref: sparky soc.culture.taiwan:12922 soc.culture.hongkong:10509
From: hpw10@RUTS.ccc.amdahl.com
Newsgroups: soc.culture.taiwan
Subject: BSR and WSR
Date: 15 Sep 92 22:14:41 GMT
Reply-To: hpw10@RUTS.ccc.amdahl.com ()
Distribution: usa
Organization: Amdahl Corporation, Sunnyvale CA

>>I, like many others, support one official language and co-exist of other
>>dialects.

I am just wondering why no one made such a daring suggestion in 60's
or 70's when Taiwnese government had the absolute power over its people.
From: cqu@ringer.cs.utsa.edu (Chang-ning Qu)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.taiwan
Subject: Re: The foreign minister of prc said:Re to George He
Date: 7 Sep 92 02:48:26 GMT
Organization: University of Texas at San Antonio

In article <Bu5BJ8.A91@multisys.com> rot@multisys.com (Republic of Taiwan) writes:
>In article <BtxAnI.7xK@usenet.ucs.indiana.edu> ACHEN@ucs.indiana.edu writes:
>
>To our enemy, we will drink your blood if you dare to invade
>Taiwan and 'nasty names' is such a triviality.
>

    Who are brutal, KMT and CCP? But you are the number one.
Taiwan would suffer Fascism domination if you got the power.
Newsgroups: soc.culture.taiwan
From: rot@multisys.com (Republic of Taiwan)
Subject: Re: Independence of Taiwan: a Suggestion
Organization: Multimedia Information Systems Corporation, San Jose, CA                        TEL: (408) 436-8929            E-mail: info@multisys.com
Date: Mon, 7 Sep 1992 13:11:28 GMT

In article <1992Sep3.102319.3684@vax.muskingum.edu> ericlaw@vax.muskingum.edu (Eric Law, Geology Department) writes:
=In article <1992Sep3.025629.674@netnews.alf.dec.com>, klai@jman.dco.dec.com (Kwo-Long Lai) writes:
=> 
=> Having been US for such a long time, I've learned an old saying: 
=> 
=>                 Never say never! :-)
=
=	** For certain thing such as "TI would never materialize"
=	   I think you can say NEVER just within our life time.
                                                 ^^^


Eric Claw, YOUR life time must be pretty short. At least
shorter than mine.  ;-(