HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: balistik@big-brother.nevada.edu (Shawn Hicks)
Subject: Re: Sean (was Re: Culture (was Re: Ah, Fashion.))
Organization: Not yet, but we're working on it...
Date: Fri, 9 Oct 1992 21:36:14 GMT

In article <sean@kaa.gr.osf.org>, emcmanus@gr.osf.org (Eamonn McManus) writes:
>jclander@texas.mitre.org (Julian C. Lander) writes:
>>Shawn and Shaun - Aren't these variations of an Irish name (whatever the
>>correct term for the language of origin is; I mean the non-English language
>>native to Ireland)?  And isn't the "authentic" form, at least for men, 
>>spelled "Sean"?  These are just attempts to preserve sound quality without
>>regard for spelling as we cross a language barrier.

My maternal grandfather, who was born in Ireland, and my father, who
wasn't, argued over how to spell my name for quite some time.
As can be seen above, my father won.  Eamonn goes on to tell us
why:

>The "authentic" form is spelled "Sean", and is a man's name.  Women
>are not named Sean in Ireland.  There is an acute accent on the A;
>otherwise the name would be pronounced "shan" and would mean "old",
>which of course would be a terrible thing to call anybody.
>
>I tend to pronounce the name more like a long "shon" than "shawn".
>This also how I pronounce the word "shone", which I was recently
>startled to discover rhymes with Joan for some people.

Basically, Sean in American English is pronounced "seen," except that
most people know the proper pronunciation and revert to "seen" as a
joke or tease.  "Shon" and "Shawn" would be similar, and "shone" 
would, indead, rhyme with "Joan."  A lever does not rhyme with a fever,
as the first is "le-ver" and the latter is "fee-ver," except the
new soap brand Lever 2000, which is pronounced "Lee-ver." 

Boy am I glad I only pretend to speak English.


Shawn
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: lsg001@cck.coventry.ac.uk (Graham Wilson)
Subject: Re: Madonna offers haven to Diana
Organization: Legal Department - Coventry University
Date: Wed, 14 Oct 1992 09:56:53 GMT

In article <2ad1b446@ThreeL.co.uk> jf@threel.co.uk (John Fisher) writes:
>
>In article <1992Sep30.153337.10218@netcom.com>,
>jfh@netcom.com (Jack Hamilton) writes:
>
>The queen is also rich, in her personal capacity.  Nobody
>knows *how* rich, because unlike everyone else, her major
>shareholdings are kept secret.  The best bet is that she is
>one the half-dozen richest women in the world.

** The Queen is the richest woman in the world. The Sunday Times
   publishes a survey of the richest 100 people every year.


>Charles will inherit, without the nuisance of having to pay
>death duties, unlike his subjects-to-be.  The monarch is
>also exempt from Income Tax.  Nice work if you can get it.

** A few recent proposals have included taxing all members of the royal
   family apart from the monarch. I don't know whether the idea
   will catch on and become law.

   RECENT SKETCH
   -------------

   Queen sitting talking to Prince Phillip.


   Queen : Phillip. Afterall, I don't think having to pay income tax is 
           really that bad.

   Phillip : What. You must be bloody joking. It will cost us a fortune.


   Queen : But just think... it means I will be able to employ Johnny as
           my financial advisor.	   




-- 
          ****************************************************
          *      Graham Wilson      *  lsg001@uk.ac.cov.cck  *
          *     LL.B.  Law  III     *  Coventry  University  *
          ****************************************************
Newsgroups: soc.motss,ba.motss,su.gay,soc.bi
From: buckmr@vccsouth28.its.rpi.edu (Ron Buckmire)
Subject: Re: NGLTF Policy Institute - Creating Change Conference
Date: Wed, 7 Oct 1992 18:46:01 GMT

wje00@ccc.amdahl.com (Warren Jay Eggly) writes:

>This is information I pick up from the National Gay Lesbian Task Force
>Policy Institute. This was posted here with out their permission.

>Creating Change is a registered trade mark of the National Gay Lesbian
>Task Force Policy Institute.

>National Gay and Lesbian Task Force Policy Institute
>1734 14th Street NW
>Washington, DC 20009
>202-332-6483	202-332-6219 (TTY)

>5th Annual 

>Creating Change 		November 13-15, 1992

Hey, anyone else going? I'm hoping to get a scholarship from them to pay for
the conference fees but my frequent flyer miles are paying the airfare. Hope
to see y'all there!


-- 
RON BUCKMIRE, 11 Colvin Circle, Troy, NY 12180-3735. ***Clinton-Gore '92***
vox:(518)-276-8910 fax:(518)-276-6920 buckmr@rpi.edu buckmr@rpitsmts.bitnet
Feminism "...encourages women to leave their husbands, kill their children,
practice witchcraft, destroy capitalism, and become lesbians." -- Pat Robertson.
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: shore@dinah.tc.cornell.edu (Melinda Shore)
Subject: Re: Why you people alienate so many...
Organization: Cornell Theory Center
Date: Fri, 16 Oct 1992 15:30:15 GMT

In article <1992Oct16.144012.6618@lclark.edu> snodgras@lclark.edu (Bil Snodgrass) writes:
> I begged Jesse!

Jesse who?  For what?  Did you get it?
--
       Melinda Shore - Cornell Theory Center - shore@tc.cornell.edu
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: gsmith@lauren.uucp (Gene W. Smith)
Subject: Re: Fresh from the oven
Organization: IWR, University of Heidelberg, Germany
Date: Mon, 12 Oct 92 17:28:55 GMT

In article <5383@rosie.NeXT.COM> ltucker@next.com writes:

>Prior to this initial outing,  I had been reading soc.motss and  
>ba.motss. 

>My self image is now much better.   I don't feel like the ugly, awkward  
>man that I used to.  I know what I love about men.  I know that I am  
>capable of giving and receiving love.   

It's nice to hear that soc.motss can be such a positive experience in
some cases.  May we all keep our eyes open to how it can be made such
more often.

-- 
     Gene Ward Smith/Brahms Gang/IWR/Ruprecht-Karls University 
               gsmith@kalliope.iwr.uni-heidelberg.de
Xref: sparky soc.motss:43272 talk.politics.misc:51866 ca.politics:8680
From: cramer@optilink.UUCP (Clayton Cramer)
Newsgroups: soc.motss,talk.politics.misc,ca.politics
Subject: Re: Fear of Success (was Re: Oregon poll)
Date: 14 Oct 92 20:36:08 GMT
Organization: Optilink Corporation, Petaluma, CA

In article <1992Oct12.041835.16844@s1.gov>, lip@s1.gov (Loren I. Petrich) writes:
> In article <12704@optilink.UUCP> cramer@optilink.UUCP (Clayton Cramer) writes:
> >In article <BvrLr7.BtM@hpuerca.atl.hp.com>, mhr@hpuerca.atl.hp.com (Mike Reaser) writes:
> >> In <BvrGH7.JyL@scd.hp.com> mdrayton@sr.hp.com (Mike Drayton) writes:
# @ Seriously, the OCA scares the daylights out of me, too.  Remember, I
# @ not only live in the same state but the same city as Hardwick (as in
# @ vs. Bowers :-( ).  We've had our fair share of gay bashings, murders, and
# @ other assorted hate crimes, and the thought of them being "officially
# @ sanctioned" makes me want to run for the hills.
# @ 
# @ #Mike Drayton      mdrayton@sr.hp.com       Hewlett-Packard Co.
# @  Mike Reaser, Hewlett-Packard N. Amer. Response Center - Atlanta
# #
# #How does Measure 9, by prohibiting the state from promoting 
# #homosexuality, sanction violent attacks on homosexuals?
# 
# 	It does more than that. It declares gay people "officially
# depraved", and not worthy of any protection.

The text of Measure 9 sent to me by an opponent of Measure 9
doesn't use the word "depraved" at all.  Nor does it say anything
about allowing violent attacks on homosexuals.  Nor does it 
require or imply that any existing laws against violent attack
are to be repealed.

Would you care to enlighten me?  Or is this just another fantasy
you have?
-- 
Clayton E. Cramer {uunet,pyramid}!optilink!cramer  My opinions, all mine!
Lesson learned from Gov. Wilson's signing of AB 2601: if you don't get 
your way, have a riot.  Next time, Gov. Wilson will cower appropriately.
From: jakec@ralvmm.vnet.ibm.com (Jake Coughlin)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: The Rainbow Flag
Date: 8 Oct 92 20:06:35 GMT
Organization: IBM T. J. Watson Research
Originator: jakec@ralvmm.vnet.ibm.com

ST402341@brownvm.brown.edu (Gary Byma):
> [...] the rainbow flag represented the rainbow coalition which includes
> persons of all races, and that the lavender strip on the flag was for
> gays/lesbians. When did it become for queers only?

when we began issuing membership cards.  didn't you get one?
tsk, hate *your* luck.
-- 
Queer Without A Cause!
Jason Coughlin ( jakec@ralvmm.vnet.ibm.com )
"I find myself suddenly in the world, and I recognize that I have one
right alone: that of demanding human behavior of the other." -- Fanon
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: TMCCART3@ua1vm.ua.edu
Subject: Gaynet and ftps
Organization: The University of Alabama, Tuscaloosa
Date: Thu, 8 Oct 1992 04:47:48 GMT

Would some kind motsser please tell me how to get access to Gaynet? Also, I rea
d something about an ftp site at nifty.andrew.cmu.edu with the "Queer Resources
 Directory," but try as I might I couldn't get the thing to accept my E-mail ad
dress as a password.(Maybe it automatically screens out users from Alabama.) An
y suggestions?
 _______________________________________________________________________
|    "Be frank and explicit with your lawyer...It is his business to    |
|             confuse the issue afterwards." -- J.R. Solly              |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------------|
| __ Tracey McCartney            University of Alabama School of Law __ |
|_/______________________tmccart3@ua1vm.ua.edu______________________/_|
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: chuck@fourier.ssd.kodak.com (Charles S. Collins 726-9461)
Subject: Re: "Advocate" editor interviewed on CNN
Organization: Eastman Kodak
Date: Wed, 14 Oct 92 17:01:22 GMT

In article <1992Oct8.220211.18370@midway.uchicago.edu> elle@midway.uchicago.edu writes:
>In article <Bvq3Gy.9wF@scd.hp.com> mdrayton@sr.hp.com (Mike Drayton) writes:
>>Aww, Tucker Quayle _again_?  Or do you mean "*really* big" in a
>>different sense?
>
>Tucker's not only small game, he's too young to be influential even if he
>were speaking out against us, which he isn't.
>
>On the other hand, a number of reporters for GLBO papers have been
>tracking the _DAN_ Quayle rumor for four years now, but can't get anyone
>willing to talk on the record.
>
>--                    __
>Ellen Keyne Seebacher \/             elle@midway.uchicago.edu
>  "Anyone who knows Dan knows he'd rather golf than have sex."  
>                      --Marilyn Quayle


On public radio the other night, they played a couple of Quayle quotes
where the VP insisted that homosexuality is a choice.

Maybe he had a tougher choice of it than we might imagine.


-- 
Chuck Collins				Product Software Engineering
chuck@pixel.kodak.com			Eastman Kodak Company
(716)726-9461				901 Elmgrove Road
					Rochester, NY  14653-5811
From: aberson@enh.nist.gov
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: RE: Fear of Success (was Re: Oregon poll)
Date: 9 Oct 92 22:07:18 GMT
Organization: NIST

In a previous article, klotz@lclark.edu (Gretchen Klotz) wrote:
>Alas, you are right on this one.  I invite you to Oregon to see for
>yourself that things are extremely serious *now*.  You can talk to the
>people who have had their property vandalized, who have been run off the
>road, who have been taunted and insulted, who have been attacked
>physically.  Unfortunately, you cannot talk to those who have been killed.

I found the "OCA  NOT!" button I bought during the .con, and decided to
wear it to work today, sort of a pre-NCOD (I'm quite out here, just like
to do something overtly political every once in awhile).  I've gotten 
a number of questions about it.  When I explain it, nobody believes what
I am telling them.  "Nobody will vote for that," and "That can't
happen in America," are the most common responses.  As Neil Rogers
says, "Unnn-believable."

       Sim Aberson   Ft. Lauderdale, FL   aberson%3328.span@sdsc.edu
"It's always Beach Party Barbie, or Malibu Barbie....  That shit does not
prepare you for the true horror of a real woman's life.  Where is Single,
Abused, Trailer-Park Barbie?"             - Roseanne Arnold
From: jmp8p@fermi.clas.Virginia.EDU (Jeannine Marie Pinto)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: Sister Souljah on White Feminists -- They Want to Seduce Black Women
Date: 15 Oct 92 14:24:00 GMT
Organization: University of Virginia

In article <1992Oct15.004509.20780@s1.gov> lip@s1.gov (Loren I. Petrich) writes:
>
>	Is there _any_ support for SS's contentions? 
		^^^^^^

What do you mean by "any"?  Do you mean "Has any white woman ever
tried to seduce a Black woman?"   What would count as evidence in
support of SS's claim?  

jeannine
From: adolphso@mizar.usc.edu (adolphson)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: Dietrich, Madonna, etc.
Date: 11 Oct 1992 13:46:41 -0700
Organization: University of Southern California, Los Angeles, CA
NNTP-Posting-Host: mizar.usc.edu

In article <1992Oct11.193719.7150@reed.edu> 
nelson@reed.edu (Nelson Minar) writes:
> In article <1992Oct11.155144.16907@sun0.urz.uni-heidelberg.de> 
> gsmith@lauren.uucp (Gene W. Smith) writes:
> >Is Tammy Faye Bakker an icon because we know who she is? 
>
> No, she's an icon because of *what* she is. That mascara, that dress,
> those tears, her husband who takes it up the ass! Pathos incarnate.

I can think of very little that's more entertaining than these
Christian broadcast wackos.  I used to watch Jim and Tammy Faye,
um, religiously, and howl with laughter.  Jimmy Swaggart was
another.  My friend Howard (not the movie, um, aficionado, but 
my ex) and I used to watch Swaggart together in the late '70s-
early '80s.  I remember one of his shows in particular because 
of its sheer poetic power.  Jimmy went on and on about his deprived 
and depraved youth, abouthow he didn't grow up in no palace with 
chandaliers ("ch" pronounced as in "church") and carpets, about 
how he almost gave in and became a rock star with his cousin,
blah blah.  All delivered in his sweaty, oily, Pentacostal fashion.
Then he worked in a rant against homosekseeality and child
beastality that was truly lunatic -- I mean, are people who 
grow up in homes with chandaliers and who later in life become
rock stars really that much more prone to child beastality?

> if you'll notice, even Tammy Faye is being copied. The big new
> Christian network (which rose in about 6 years - I'm astounded) is the
> Trinity Broadcast Network. There's a major husband and wife team, and
> the wife really wants to be Tammy Faye. It's quite astounding.

*Way* back in the early '70s there was a local LA religious
husband and wife team who were a lot like the Bakkers.  I don't
remember their names, but a friend of mine always referred to
the wife as the Dancing Doll.  She had a gigantic platinum
beehive with spitcurls, and she wore lots of black eyeliner
and frosted pink lipstick and she always dressed in pastels
and wore big fake sunflowers made of fabric in her hair and
pinned to her bosom and she used to jump up and down all the 
time.  She was absolutely hilarious.  I think the Tammy Faye
look for women is one of the dangers inherent in the fundie 
lifestyle.

And now it's time to throw my laundry into the driers!

Arne

Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: maffray@imag.fr (Frederic Maffray)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Psychoanalysis, anybody?
Date: 11 Oct 92 22:03:36 GMT
Organization: IMAG Institute, University of Grenoble, France


I would like to launch a new topic: Psychoanalysis.
Specifically, if you've been through one, without going into
private details I'd like to know how your analyst handled
your being gay or lesbian, was there any problem with that,
etc.  Of course any other experience you'd like to share
would be welcome.

---
Frederic Maffray

"There are no satisfied fantasies; only bad habits and good
remembrances." -- Amanda Lear
From: Furr@cup.portal.com (George Dalton Madison)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: RE: Madonna offers haven to Diana
Date: Thu,  8 Oct 92 21:07:17 PDT
Organization: The Portal System (TM)
  <7487@charon.cwi.nl> <1992Oct7.145129.23359@macc.wisc.edu>
  <8OCT92.12471928@enh.nist.gov>

Sim Aberson writes:
>Nonononononono.  Anything below 70 is simply *frigid.*

Having grown up in the relatively temperate Pacific Northwest, I
don't *quite* agree.  However, I would be happiest if the
weather rarely ventured out of the 20-degree range between 65F
and 85F.  Los Angeles is simply Too Damned HOT, and that's one of
the primary reasons I want OUT.  Back to Ecotopia, definitely.
 
() Horse sense is the thing a horse has that keeps it from
() betting on people.
-----
[> George D. Madison | NBCS: B8f+t+w-e+s+k+a!cv | Just say NO to razors! <]
[> It's a BEAR thing -- you wouldn't understand. <|> furr@cup.portal.com <]
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: mattm@apple.com (Matthew Melmon)
Subject: Re: Jason Priestley
Date: Mon, 12 Oct 1992 20:58:37 GMT
Organization: Apple Computer, Inc.
Followup-To: soc.motss

In article <1bckijINNt43@stanley.cis.Brown.EDU>, ST402341@brownvm.brown.edu
(Gary Byma) wrote:

> I was a bit surprised to read Jason Priestley's name (and a little
> pleased) but I'm not sure if I can believe it. Has anyone else
> heard this, or is it just a rumor?

This has come up before, but I didn't pay much attention because of
the following shocking fact:  while I *do* know who Marlene Dietrich
is, I do *not* know who Jason Priestly is...

Singer?  Actor?  Sports celebrity?  

Icon?

Melmothra, ACC
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: dyer@spdcc.com (Steve Dyer)
Subject: Re: WARNING: Stealth African Marauding soc.motss
Organization: S.P. Dyer Computer Consulting, Cambridge MA
Date: Mon, 12 Oct 1992 03:38:31 GMT

In article <1992Oct12.031823.29080@reed.edu> nelson@reed.edu (Nelson Minar) writes:
>In what way does motss reflect the whiteness of most of its members?

Mirror, mirror on the wall...  Discussions of the special issues surrounding
being gay and being a member of a minority group are pretty infrequent,
unless you count responses to Arnold Hu's assertions about assimilated
versus immigrant Asians.  I guess we can be grateful for _something_
from him. :-)

>I've pointed out one potential example - the discussion of Marlene
>Dietrich as an icon.

I don't think this says too much about "whiteness" or "blackness".
That's "fag stuff" versus "Sarver stuff".  You know, like what
David, the Amiga owner said.

>What are others? What would constitute a
>discussion of particular relevance to non-white people?

Well, I have some ideas, but perhaps someone non-white should speak up.

-- 
Steve Dyer
dyer@ursa-major.spdcc.com aka {ima,harvard,rayssd,linus,m2c}!spdcc!dyer
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: anderson@macc.wisc.edu (Jess Anderson)
Subject: Re: My Bad Mouth
Organization: Madison Academic Computing Center, UW-Madison
Date: Fri, 16 Oct 92 03:16:46 GMT


In article <1992Oct16.023711.11320@tc.cornell.edu>
shore@dinah.tc.cornell.edu (Melinda Shore) writes:

>>shore@dinah.tc.cornell.edu (Melinda Shore) writes:
>>I've been trying to think of anyone who is a regular poster
>>who hasn't been blasted in a major way at some point in the
>>past, and I've come up empty.  Is there, in fact, such a
>>person?

>Such a person wrote to me, in the form of Ellen Seebacher,
>and pointed out that while she's been here for quite some
>time she's never been flamed mercilessly.  We could fix
>that, I suppose ...

Not necessary.  Just withdraw stimulation, sure to drive
Ellen over the edge in record time.  I wouldn't recommend
actually doing that, of course, because I like her.

-- 
Jess Anderson <> Madison Academic Computing Center <> University of Wisconsin
Internet: anderson@macc.wisc.edu <-best, UUCP:{}!uwvax!macc.wisc.edu!anderson
NeXTmail w/attachments: anderson@yak.macc.wisc.edu  Bitnet: anderson@wiscmacc
Room 3130 <> 1210 West Dayton Street / Madison WI 53706 <> Phone 608/262-5888
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: anderson@macc.wisc.edu (Jess Anderson)
Subject: Re: "Advocate" editor interviewed on CNN
Organization: Madison Academic Computing Center, UW-Madison
Date: Thu, 15 Oct 92 18:35:51 GMT


In article <1992Oct15.150020.10954@infonode.ingr.com>
norris@infonode.ingr.com (Jeff Norris) writes:

>Well, one sterotype is that repressed homosexual men subconsciously
>choose an ugly wife.  Danny boy certainly meets *that* criterion.

Another, arguably more damaging, stereotype is that human
beings are "ugly." We are raised in an environment that
ineluctably creates an aesthetic supplying such imagery to
our consciousness on demand.  It is, in essence,
irresistible.  Sorta like racism.  It is the Wrong Thing, I
think.

That said, I don't agree that Marilyn Qualye is "ugly."

What's ugly is that in terms of the correspondences between
so-called good looks and clearly unacceptable behavior, her
husband has more in common with Jeffrey Dahmer than with
anyone else.

-- 
Jess Anderson <> Madison Academic Computing Center <> University of Wisconsin
Internet: anderson@macc.wisc.edu <-best, UUCP:{}!uwvax!macc.wisc.edu!anderson
NeXTmail w/attachments: anderson@yak.macc.wisc.edu  Bitnet: anderson@wiscmacc
Room 3130 <> 1210 West Dayton Street / Madison WI 53706 <> Phone 608/262-5888
From: pmele@ldgo.columbia.edu (phil mele)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: NO ON 9 benefit and The Works (NYC)
Date: 13 Oct 92 14:09:06 GMT
Organization: Lamont-Doherty Geological Observatory

for those of you who live in the NYC area, or will be there this friday,
16 Oct, The Works is having a benefit/fund-raiser for NO ON 9.  there will
be a $5 cover charge which will get you one free drink.  i'm not sure
how much of the $5 will be donated to NO ON 9, but some or all will be.
they are having some kind of show, a few brain-dead go-go boys with
muscles for days, and some kind of drag (what a drag).
The Works is on Columbus Ave., just south of 81st, behind the museum of
natural histoy.

-- 

Phil Mele  (pmele@lamont.ldgo.columbia.edu)
Lamont-Doherty Geological Observatory of Columbia University
Palisades, N Y  10964
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: thaaang@cwis.unomaha.edu (John Dorrance)
Subject: Re: Why you people alienate so many...
Organization: University of Nebraska at Omaha
Date: Thu, 15 Oct 1992 09:43:19 GMT

mike@gordian.com (Michael A. Thomas) writes:

>In article <1992Oct15.051609.7691@reed.edu>, nelson@reed.edu (Nelson Minar) writes:
>> John Dorrance? John was severly roasted when he started on the net -
>> cabal blacklist, all that. I think I posted about this a few weeks ago.

>  I don't remember John getting roasted. He may have otherwise ended up
>on the motss.con.dim.sum menu instead of just being disgusted at the
>thought of canablism.

No, actually, I *was* roasted; deserved it, too. Twice, once because I
was talking about my feminine mythology class and sounded sexist, and
once because I was talking about my friend Maggie and sounded internally
homophobic (I probably was a little). Both got better as I explained my
position more concisely and thought about what the other people were
saying, but I was pretty ill after seeing my first few flames.

My mistake was I saw the casual banter going on around here and assumed
I could just jump right in; that's not true. This is like any other
social situation in a way; it's a group of people, and you can't just
*POOF!!!* be an accepted member. If you wade in unannounced, people's
toes will get stepped on. Cabal? Sure, whatever you want to call it.
But it's not wrong, it's just the way people work. (Of course, I'm
saying this from the perspective of someone who's been through all of
that and emerged okay...)

--
John Dorrance * Alleged Homosexual/Shameless Hussy * thaaang@cwis.unomaha.edu

			Dark. Handsome. 6 feet tall.
		  31 flavors? I believe he's got 'em all!
Newsgroups: soc.motss