HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.christia
Date:         Wed, 19 Aug 1992 11:40:13 EDT
From:         Bernice Tennant <U1A9A@WVNVM.BITNET>
Subject:      Re: what to do about people asking for money

On 08/18/92 at 11:24:56 j.b. cormier said:
>I think that in Memphis(not really sure though)
>that there is a program, where local businesses
>give out vouchers/coupons, which local restaurants
>support and co-sponsor, to their employees and customers
>to give to panhandlers when asked for money
>for food.  I'm not sure how well it is working, but
>it is favoured by everyone I've heard talk about it.

This is the wonderful thing about the list, it is the body of Christ working
together and we can all learn from it.
>Jason
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Date:         Tue, 18 Aug 1992 13:25:36 -0500
From:         "j.b. cormier" <CORJB@RHODES.BITNET>
Subject:      Re: Homosexuality

Your quoting of Carl's posting reminded me of something I missed when
I originally read it.  St. Paul wrote that he was afflicted with a thorn
in the flesh, which many commentators believe to have been eye trouble,
and prayed to God to be freed from it.  He said that God did not remove
the "thorn" but said, "My strength is sufficient for thee."  I think
that principle could apply to someone afflicted with homosexuality, or
any predisposition to sin.  In some cases God will remove the problem.
In others God will not remove it but will give the individual the
strength to overcome it.

Marty Helgesen

        Maybe some of you will be shocked and I hope no one
        takes this as blasphemous, but some academics speculate
        as to whether or not Paul's thorn was homosexuality.
        Some believe that this may be one of the reasons why
        he came so strongly out against it when he wrote.

        Jason
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Date:         Sat, 15 Aug 1992 21:03:49 -0600
From:         Glennerd Skynard <S05152@DOC.FLC.COLORADO.EDU>
Subject:      Environmentalism and the new age

Dear Everyone:

     Recently there were some posts concerning
environmentalism and the "new age" movement and how these
were or were not related.  I therefore decided to tell the
story of Fort Lewis College and how environmentalism there
seems to be completely entangled in the new age movement.

     Fort Lewis has a lot of people who look like they are
trying to bring the hippie culture of the late 60s back to
life.  A fair number of these people are also doing things
like wearing crystals and going to "earthen spirituality"
meetings and other events of this nature.  One of the
hottest events of the last school year was a petition drive
to make sure that the idea of legalizing marijuana was
placed on the ballot for the general election.

     One of the more memorable events of the previous
semester was an "earth summit" or something like that.
There were the usual protests in front of the Federal
building and litter-pickup-outings, but there were also
things like the above mentioned earthen spirituality
workshop, yoga classes, incense-burning events, and other
things of this nature.

     The point I am trying to make is that in the Durango
area, the new age movement, being a hippie, and being a
"supporter of the environment" usually go hand in hand.  It
seems to me that a lot of people are turned off to the usual
party scene and therefore seek this as a "positive
alternative."  Not that these people party any less hard
than the party animals; they simply vote and look different.
And entangled through the whole mess are crystals, spiritual
vibrations, the "center for alternative realities" (there is
really such a place in Durango), and the like.  I try to be
an efficient person and use as little as possible, but I am
not about to grow dreadlocks and wear a crystal.  I never was
very hip and crystals scare me.  I pray that the Lord will be
able to get through the haze and reach these people somehow, but
their numbers seem to be growing.  I Hope this changes some
day...

                 Hoping things get better...


                        Glennerd :-|
From: psyrobtw@ubvmsd.cc.buffalo.edu (Robert Weiss)
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.christia
Subject: Re: Netnews Statistics
Date: 14 Aug 92 02:38:00 GMT
Organization: University at Buffalo
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41

In article <1992Aug13.171702.15032@gboro.glassboro.edu>, kilroy@gboro.glassboro.edu (Dr Nancy's Sweetie) writes...

[...]

>         No. of       % of
>Rank Articles KBytes Total   User
> 
>  15   145     124.0  0.0%   kste@purccvm.BITNET  (Kerry Stephenson)
>			      58% bit.listserv.christia
>			      41% bit.listserv.politics
> 
>So Miss Stephenson has sent out 145 articles in two weeks, making her the
>15th most prolific person on Usenet.

Maybe in volume. But she is number 1 in quality.


 en agape,
 Bob 
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Date:         Mon, 17 Aug 1992 16:14:31 EST
From:         Ian Williams <iwilliam@AU.ORACLE.COM>
Subject:      Re: Can Satan heal?
X-To:         CHRISTIA@ASUVM.INRE.ASU.EDU
              "JEK@NIHCU.BITNET" at Aug 16, 92 10:08 pm

>Glen Braden writes:
>
> > Concerning Benny Hinn and Healing... What makes you think that
> > Satan doesn't have the power to heal?
>
>One possible reply is found in M 12:22-29 = P 3:22-27 = L 11:14-22.
>Jesus is accused of casting out devils by the power of Beelzebub,
>and replies: "Does Satan cast out Satan?"
>
>It is my impression (I offer no proof) that Satan cannot do anything
>constructive. He can smash, but he cannot build. He is like an
>old-fashioned Chinese warlord sitting down in his old age and trying
>to write a few poems. He has forgotten how.
>
>(This is not a defense of Benny Hinn. Apart from this list, I have
>never heard of him, or of Mike Warnke.)
>
> Yours,
> James Kiefer
>

I agree with James that satan cannot heal, HOWEVER satan can give the
appearance of healing simply by stopping to make someone sick.. The
person is definately no longer sick, and to us it looks like a healing,
however satan has not healed, neither has God..

A good example of this would be new age crystal healing etc etc etc..


---------------------+-------------+-----------------------------------------
Ian Williams         |    _--_|\   |      Internet: iwilliam@au.oracle.com
Oracle Systems       |   /      \  |	  Phone	  : +61 8 239 3900
Adelaide, Australia  |   \_.--*_/  |
                     |         v   |
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Date:         Thu, 20 Aug 1992 14:16:00 CDT
From:         Brenda/Bren <BJGAGE@KSUVM.BITNET>
Subject:      Posting

Renee...thank you for the posting.

                 Yours in Christ-
                 Brenda
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Date:         Thu, 13 Aug 1992 14:07:44 CDT
From:         Anthony Glen Jeffries <jeffries@IASTATE.EDU>
Subject:      Netnews access to Christia
X-To:         Practical Christian Life <CHRISTIA%ASUACAD.bitnet@ksuvm.ksu.edu>
              13 Aug 92 17:17:02 +0000. <9208131848.AA08025@po-1.iastate.edu>

Hello everybody!

I don't think that dropping the connection to USENET would be a good idea,
because I discovered this mailing list through USENET, and I'm sure (but I
could always be wrong) that many other people discovered it the same way.
Also, as has been noted earlier, some people access this list only through
USENET.

Anthony Glen Jeffries
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.christia
From: nlt@gboro.glassboro.edu (N. L. Tinkham)
Subject: Re: Mary & colour blue
Organization: Department of Computer Science, Glassboro State College
Date: Fri, 14 Aug 1992 17:50:31 GMT

Vernon Galloway wrote:
>> I don't want to start an argument with our RC list members, but another view
>> of REV 12 is that the woman is Israel through v 5 and the church thereafter.

and Brad Kaiser replied:

> You're entitled to that view, but I find it hard to accept.  V.5
> speaks of her "son, a male child, who will rule all the nations with
> an iron scepter" and who was "snatched up to God".
>
> Why would the church be identified as a "male child" (the church is
> traditionally feminine in Latin, and I believe in Greek as well), and
> in what sense could she "rule all the nations with an iron scepter" ?
>
> Just the phrase "rule all the nations with an iron scepter" is very
> reminiscent of the OT prophecies of the Messiah, to my ears.

If one interprets the woman to be Israel, the male child who will rule
with an iron scepter would still be identified with Jesus.  As you say,
the description of the child uses Messianic language.  While Mary gave
birth to Jesus in the literal sense, the nation of Israel gave birth to
Jesus in a more figurative sense; this and the imagery of 12 stars are
the reasons that many commentators identify the woman with Israel.

Within this school of thought, interpretation of the woman after v. 5
differs; I've heard Israel, Jewish Christians, and the church given as
various interpretations.

(For the record, I don't have a firm opinion on the meaning of the
passage.  Identifying the woman with Israel (throughout the chapter)
seems to me to fit the symbolism best, but I can see the case for some
of the alternatives, including Mary.  My chief question in interpreting
Revelation is "How would the author and his first-century readers have
used these symbols?" -- so, for Mary, the question would be whether Mary
was widely venerated as early as the first century and whether a first-
century Christian audience would have thought of Mary when they pictured
a woman clothed with the sun, crowned with 12 stars, sustained in the
wilderness, and so on.  I don't have enough information on the history
of Marian devotion to give a confident answer at this point.)

_____________________________________________________________________________

                                              Nancy Tinkham
                                              nlt@gboro.glassboro.edu
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Date:         Tue, 18 Aug 1992 09:49:13 CDT
From:         Yvette Traylor <YST1@DCCCDBIT.BITNET>
Subject:      Re: Homosexuality

>
> > I have -many- gay friends and none of them are the monsters that they
> > are made to be here.  The only difference between them and the heterosexual
> > people that I know is that they prefer the same sex.                e to
                                                                        sexual
I did not even know what a homosexual was until I was 18 years old, I
am 28 now. But within the last 10 years, I have never been told very
much about homosexuals except, they are the reason God destroyed
Sodom and Gomorrah and how they defile themselves with each other.
As to the difference between Homo and Heter, to me that is a big deal,
mainly, because I have been programmed for the last 28 years to believe
that God made Men for Women, and Women for Men. But, I must say with a
smile that I am growing as a Christian because I am truly learning to
hate the sin, but not the sinner. And this does not just include the sin
of one defiling him/herself with the same sex, but also liars, (murders
I'm still working hard on this one), and every other sin, and most of
all, I am tring to get the beams out of my eyes as I grow. :-)

   Yvette Traylor     "We are His people and the sheep of his pasture."
   Dallas County Community College District             Psalm 100:3
   Computer Programmer/Analyst  in  Dallas - Texas
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.christia
From: 75furlong@cua.edu
Subject: Re: Homosexuality
Organization: The Catholic University of America
Date: Thu, 20 Aug 1992 15:04:19 GMT

In article <92.232.14.6.40.100@MVS.UDEL.EDU>,         Richard.Campbell@MVS.UDEL.EDU writes:
>  If you are really interested in understanding the homosexual condition and
> how it is healed, Moberly's book "Homosexuality: A New Christian Ethic," is a
> must.                                   Rich

And if you're really interested in understanding homosexuality instead of
trying to "cure" it, go talk to a homosexual.

-Alison
From: SRAUTRY@SAMFORD.BITNET (Renee Autry)
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.christia
Subject: Pat Robertson . . . what denomination?
Date: 18 Aug 92 15:11:13 GMT
Organization: Samford University
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Could someone please e-mail me the information regarding the denomination/
church with which Mr. Robinson is affiliated?

                                             Thanks,

                                             Renee Autry (SRAutry@Samford)
From: nlt@gboro.glassboro.edu (N. L. Tinkham)
Subject: Re: Trusting Scoutmasters
Organization: Department of Computer Science, Glassboro State College
Date: Wed, 19 Aug 1992 20:12:50 GMT

Carl Lahetta writes:

>   And there are stats that
>   show most pedophiles are Gay.  I'll be happy to cite the sources tomorrow.

Please do cite the reference to the journal(s) in which this study was
published.  This would certainly be an unexpected result, and I would
like to read the article(s) to verify the investigators' data-gathering
methods, results, and analysis.

_____________________________________________________________________________

                                              Nancy Tinkham
                                              nlt@gboro.glassboro.edu

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Newsgroups: bit.listserv.christia
Date:         Thu, 20 Aug 1992 17:00:52 EDT
From:         carol nemec <YA67@FERRIS.BITNET>
Subject:      election packet

Probe Ministries has an election packet available.  I'm not
sure what all it contains, I came in on the end of the
conversation on the radio.  For any of you that are interested,
the number for the packet is 800-899-7762.  The packet is free.

Carol Nemec
YA67@FERRIS
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Date:         Thu, 13 Aug 1992 14:31:59 CDT
From:         CCCHRIS@MIZZOU1.BITNET
Subject:      Sexual persuasion and sexual child abuse

Unfortunately, it's been my experience (and the experience of many survivors
I've encountered) that child mollesters come in all shapes and sizes, and
from all walks of life.  As children, we learned not to accept candy from
strangers.  Most folks viewed the typical child mollester as a peculiar
looking fellow with a long, dark trenchcoat peering out from the bushes in
the park, searching for their next victim.  I doubt that many of that type
actually score.  They're far too clever to waste their time that way, when
there are far more effective methods.

Children must be taught how to handle all inappropriate behavior, whether
it's touching, talking about things that make them feel uncomfortable, or
being told to keep secrets - especially from their parents.  They must be
taught to trust that inner voice, however wavery or confused it is, and
take action to protect themselves/remove themselves from harm's way.  If
the violators are their own parents or family members, they must have a
resource to turn to for protection and heavy duty councelling; for them-
selves, and for the perpetrators.  And folks, those perpetrators are no
more likely to be homosexual than hetrosexual.  Many are fathers, church
councel members, nursery school attendants, boy scout leaders and respected
members of their communities.  I know *my* father was.  And it grieves me
to think of what happened on those boyscout camping trips.  So parents,
to borrow a phrase from Hill Street Blues, "be careful out there!"

Suffer the little children... :(

Chris Reed
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Date:         Tue, 18 Aug 1992 07:59:00 -0400
From:         Lora Harris <LHARRIS@UPEI.CA>
Subject:      dates

Date: 18-AUG-1992 08:55:55

Hi Nancy,

>     These references are almost but not quite good enough for use in
>interpreting Revelation; information from A.D. 100 is good, but information
>from A.D. 50 would be better.  I've pretty much exhausted the references
>in my own library; does anyone have documentation of Marian veneration
>occurring early enough for the author of Revelation to have had Mary in mind
>as a widely honored figure?

        I have no information on Mary, but want to point out a problem with
your request for dates.  The best info. I've seen on Revelations suggests that
it wasn't written until around 90 AD.  I don't know of * any * Christian
writings from AD 50 - most of the NT even wasn't written then.  The earliest
CHristian writings outside the canon that I know of are CLement of ROme
(110ish) and Ignatius of Antioch (a bit later).  I don't remember either of
them mentioning Mary.

Lora Harris, Virology Technician                        |
University of P.E.I, Atlantic Veterinary College      --+--
Charlottetown, Prince Edward Island, C1A 4P3            |
1-902-566-0845   LHARRIS@UPEI.CA                        |
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Date:         Fri, 21 Aug 1992 11:50:14 CDT
From:         Yvette Traylor <YST1@DCCCDBIT.BITNET>
Subject:      Re: This won't win me any friends, but...

stuff deleted                                                            is
Memo writes to Kerry,
> Catholics have  been criticized because we make analogy between Mary and
> Jesus. That is a completely FALSE statement.  Jesus is our Lord and Saviour.
> The Olny One. Mary is a creature as you and me, but she was chosen  to be
> the Mother of God and she is now the first intersesor before the Lord
                        ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> (intersesion, not mediation) and that's why we hnour her as the most
                               ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> priviledged creature of all.
  ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> Shalom,
> Memo.
Where did the basis of this statement come from?  Just wondering..




   Yvette Traylor     "We are His people and the sheep of his pasture."
   Dallas County Community College District             Psalm 100:3
   Computer Programmer/Analyst  in  Dallas - Texas
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Date:         Mon, 17 Aug 1992 23:06:37 EDT
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From:         Angela Zimmerman <AMZIMM01@ULKYVM.LOUISVILLE.EDU>
Subject:      Beggars

Item Retrieval Assistant, DADS
Phone: 588-6757


> what do you think is the proper response to beggars (there are quite
> a few of them in Cambridge) who ask for money purportedly for food,
> when you can be pretty sure they're going to spend it on drink? (There
> is a charitable organization round here distributing some food to
> those in need, particularly the homeless.)


Whenever I'm approached by a beggar, chances are I'm not going to give
them money.  Why?  Because I usually get a story about a flat tire and
needing a dollar for it.  One man even went so far as to say his baby
daughter was in this mysterious car that had a flat tire.  When my
friend directed him to a police man who could have helped in that
situation infinitely more than a dollar could have, he cursed him and
walked off (in the opposite direction of where he pointed where his car
was).  Later on, we saw him 10 or so blocks further down the road (again
in the opposite direction).  I haven't been asked for money for food
in a long time, so I'm not sure how I'd react.  I'd probably give it
to them, just because it'd at least be closer to the truth (if not the
truth) than the tire story.  A friend of mine has said that he will
give money to any beggar who asks because 1) it takes guts to beg for
money and 2) to that person, even if they're going to get alcohol, that
bottle of alcohol is as important to that person as food at that moment.
He also says that people aren't going to get rehabilitation until they're
ready and who is he to judge them?  I don't necessarily agree with this
view, but I do see where he's coming from.

Hope this helps!
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Date:         Fri, 21 Aug 1992 16:38:22 DST
From:         Claus Tondering <ct@DDE.DK>
Subject:      Peretti and Tilly

I have enjoyed reading Frank Peretti's "Darkness"-books and I've
just recently finished "Prophet".

Peretti has also written a book called, I believe, "Tilly". Does any
of you know if it is a good as his other books?

Yours in Him,

Claus Tondering
Herlev, Denmark
E-mail: ct@dde.dk
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.christia
From: creps@silver.ucs.indiana.edu (Steve Creps)
Subject: Re: Catholic Univ. of America
Organization: Indiana University
Date: Fri, 21 Aug 1992 20:01:38 GMT

In article <1992Aug20.102121.1@cua.edu> 75furlong@cua.edu writes:
>In article <Bt98r9.62y@usenet.ucs.indiana.edu>, creps@silver.ucs.indiana.edu (Steve Creps) writes:
>[lots of stuff pointing out how un-Catholic Tom's opinions are]
>
>Not all of us at CUA are Catholic, y'know. I know of many Protestant, several
>Jewish and a handful of Pagan folks around here. We're a minority, but there
>are those of us (especially in the grad programs, it seems) who are at CUA
>strictly for the education and not for the religion.

   I didn't really assume that.  I just thought it might be worthwhile to
point it out, for the benefit of other non-Catholics who might think they
were Catholic teachings (as the name "Catholic" appears on the headers of
the posts in question).  I didn't mean it as a flame; I just wanted to head
off any people rejecting the Church based on mistaken impressions of what
she teaches (the usual reason that I've found people reject the Church).

   By the way, I was on the campus of CUA a couple of months ago.  I stopped
by the National Shrine church while on a business trip in D.C.

--Steve

-	-	-	-	-	-	-	-	-	-
Steve Creps, Indiana University
creps@silver.ucs.indiana.edu
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Date:         Fri, 14 Aug 1992 16:00:21 -0500
From:         "j.b. cormier" <CORJB@RHODES.BITNET>
Subject:      New Discovery

Arhaeologists believe that they have found the tomb of
Caiaphas(sp), the High Priest during Jesus' prosecution/trial.

They have found a family tomb which in in keeping with the
time and believe that they have found a box(?) which
contains Caiaphas' bones. It has certain inscriptions, etc.,
which seem to indicate such.

Jason
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Date:         Tue, 18 Aug 1992 05:56:48 CDT
From:         Jesse Carnes <NOTJIC@LSUVM.BITNET>
Subject:      Is the Bible consistent?

Dear Brad Kaiser ;

The three works you mentioned, "Q'uron" ; "Book of Morman" ; "Christian
Science" are invalid because they are inconsistent with reality "out there" as
Francis Schaeffer calls it.
They have holes here and there in there ethics, theology or epistemology.




Jesse Carnes
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