Newsgroups: rec.music.christian
Subject: Re: TANGENT: Christianity and art
From: tothmd@ucunix.san.uc.edu (Michael David Toth)
Date: Thu, 3 Sep 92 03:07:27 GMT
Organization: University of Cincinnati

In article <1992Sep1.200954.16453@cbnews.cb.att.com> ajw@cbnews.cb.att.com (andrew.j.whitman) writes:
>In article <87594@netnews.upenn.edu> crawford@ben.dev.upenn.edu (Lauren L. Crawford) writes:
>>In article <1992Sep1.151957.3254@cbnews.cb.att.com> ajw@cbnews.cb.att.com (andrew.j.whitman) writes:
>>>
> 
>>
>>I think one can make the same argument for paint thrown at a canvas.
>>Is that art, or a celebration of chaos?  What about a blank canvas,
>>or a black canvas (both of which I've seen in museums)?  They're
>>anti-art.
>
>I agree that one of the central functions of art is to bring order
>out of chaos.  That's what creating *anything* is all about, and 
>to the extent that we seek to uphold God's image in us we will
>indeed strive to take that which is formless and void, whether it
>is a blank screen or a lump of clay or an empty canvas, and mold
>it and shape it into something beautiful.  On the other hand, to 
>create chaos is to dishonor the image of God and to deny who we are.  
>
>But I also think we have to be careful in defining our terms.  I
>sometimes get the impression that Francis Schaeffer turned off his
>critical abilities when he considered any art, music, or literature
>produced after 1900.  For Schaeffer, "order" meant linearity and
>adherence to chronology in literature, adherence to strict 
>counterpoint and harmonies in music, and photographic representations
>in the visual arts.  Given that, it's not surprising that his 
>artistic heros are Shakespeare, Bach, and Rembrandt.  
>
>Obviously I'd be foolish to downplay the astounding achievements of
>Shakespeare, Bach, and Rembrandt.  But order didn't cease to exist
>at the end of the last century, as Schaeffer would have us believe.
>It simply took on a different form.  Thus, for example, in 
>William Faulkner's "The Sound and the Fury," we have four 
(stuff deleted)
>someone's imagination.  Faulkner takes Schaeffer's love of linearity
>and adherence to chronological sequence and blows it to hell and back.  
>Did he destroy order?  Of course not.  He created an entire family
>history and an extended commentary on the disintegration of 
>American southern culture, and he wrote some brilliant prose in 
>the process.  
>
It's not a destruction of order, but a more complex order.  And when you
think of a God who is outside of time in a non-linear eternity yet still
active in time, perhaps Faulkner is closer to a more "divine order" than
Franky Schaeffer's.  :-)

>The same kinds of arguments can be made for some of the innovations
>that have taken place in the visual arts and in music.  I *do*
>think that a line needs to be drawn between order and chaos, and I'd
>agree with you that blank canvases and John Cage's 4'33" (from
>which Shaeffer borrowed heavily for his scene of the piano player
>in Times Square) fall on the "chaotic" side of the line.  I just
>think that the dear knickered one was a little *too* disdainful
>of modern culture. 
>
(For those unfamiliar, Cage's "4 min. 33 sec." featured Cage at a piano
concert sitting down at a piano for 4:33 of "silence")

Hmmm.  The most common interpretations of the Cage piece I've heard
concerned it being a re-evaluation of what "music" was - that the sound
of the environment, the audience rustling & breathing, etc., when
focused on as a set of sounds was not unlike selecting sounds that make
up a traditional music composition.  That's a far cry from chaos, just
trying to create an environment to think and re-evaulate our
expectations.  But yes, Franky is such an ethnocentric weenie that he
still probably couldn't appreciate it.  

And a while some of them MAY be expressions of nihilism or something,
most abstract color field work is intended to primarily express raw
emotions, and in the case of painters like Mark Rothko and Barnett
Newman, there was a distinctive spirituality behind those forms.  Newman
was Jewish but did a lot of investigation into Christianity and he did a
"Stations of the Cross" series of canvasses of broad areas of color.
Again, based on what I've read of Franky Schaeffer's, I doubt if Franky
would even try to learn how to interpret a Newman painting.

>
>>>Bob tells us (and Francis Schaeffer would agree) that certain forms of
>>>art are inappropriate for Christian expression.  The witness and work  
>>>of Christian artists tells me differently.  So which themes/styles
>>>are inappropriate?  And why?
>>
>I agree on all counts.  But you're talking about the message of
>art, not its form.  What I'm really trying to get at is whether 
>there are certain genres of music, literature, or the visual
>arts that are more appropriate for Christian expression than
>others.  Realizing that this is sometimes an unresolvable
>dilemma, I'm trying to keep the message separate from the 
>form, at least for this discussion.
>
I guess the most appropriate expression depends specifically on what's
being expressed.  In the _Art Rageous_ collection of essays, Steve Scott
draws illustrations from Nathan confronting David about his immorality
with a narrative about shepherds and an unjust ruler, Jeremiah doing a
sort of street theater/performance art thing with clay becoming hard &
unusable in the sun to convey the state of Israel, and Christ turning
the tables (literally) in the temple and talking about destroying the
temple and rebuilding it in three days.

Each form that each statement took was related to its intention and a
knowledge of its intended audience.  But one of the most profound
insights I've heard in AGES could be found in Christ's statement, which
most of the people in the temple TOTALLY misinterpreted, and Jesus made
no attempt at that time to clarify.  SOMETIMES FOR THE MOST IMPACT, IT
IS MORE IMPORTANT TO INITIALLY BE MISUNDERSTOOD.  (it's a slight topic
diversion, but a really amazing point, IMO)

So depending on what you have to convey, a grungy punk song, an acoustic
ballad, or an instrumental may be appropriate forms, or maybe even a
non-musical form altogether would be most appropriate. 

>To bring this down to at least a semi-practical level, I'm interested
>in questions such as:  Is it appropriate to present the Christian
>life using a) surf music? b) rap?  c) punk?  d) industrial?  e) free
>jazz?  f) reggae?  And so on.  I'd argue that it's appropriate. 
>
I think we're roughly in agreement that Franky Schaeffer's limitations
of "chaos" in art require some boundaries.  Free-form Jazz, or music
that lacks any formal structure, to that mindset, is inappropriate.

It's interesting to note that at first glance, the "dada" art movement
(or "anti-art" movement) in the 1910's-1920's seems to be totally
destructive and nihilistic.  But to really look into the movement, some
members DEFINITELY fit that description, but overall there was a real
sense of morals.  Amid WWI, there was a total disgust with the world's
state, and the breakdown of tradition and unjust systems is actually a
pretty positive action.  A lot of "random" art came out of the movement,
but mostly in search of something that was more expressive of their
frustration of the situation at large.  And a lot of the absurdist
elements in this stuff was there to reinforce the philosophies.  But,
yes, to some of these people but DEFINITELY not all, life was nothing
more than a bad joke, and their art was a reflection of that.

So, if "chaotic" art is an effective expression of frustration,
helplessness, and desire for change and reevaluation of standards, 
then for someone who has found no alternative but to trust in a Higher 
Being, it seems pretty appropriate as a form of expression to
me.  (For the modern Christian music equivalent of early 20th Century
dada, check out Breakfast With Amy, particularly the latest "product
#bvcd 3482 (love gift)" and Fluffy, particularly the first, "Fluffy Luvs
You")

>>Lauren Crawford  //  crawford@ben.dev.upenn.edu
>>
>Andy Whitman
>AT&T Bell Laboratories, Columbus, Ohio
>att!cblpn!ajw  or
>ajw@cblpn.att.com

Michael Toth
tothmd@ucunix.san.uc.edu 

Newsgroups: rec.music.christian