From: wjames@cse.ucsc.edu (John Amenta)
Newsgroups: alt.paranormal
Subject: Jung Recounts Experience with Freud
Date: 15 Dec 92 05:12:26 GMT
Organization: University of California, Santa Cruz (CE/CIS Boards)
NNTP-Posting-Host: pal.ucsc.edu


Rebecca Drayer writes:

>> Even Sigmund Freud approached the phenomena in a relatively serious
>> manner.
>> True, he did not perform many experiments himself (although he did
>> engage
>> in a few, particularly with his daughter Anna and his colleague Ernest
>> Jones).
>> He did, however, submit allegedly paranormal experiences of his patients
>> to psychoanalytic scrutiny.  Some he found to be proof of the paranormal,
>> others
>> he rejected as products of either coincidence or the unconscious mind.

>> This was the subject of a term paper I wrote for a history class on
>> Freud. If anyone is interested, I can post it here after the Christmas break.
>> (Presuming, of course, that it doesn't receive an F!  :-))

Interesting.  Have you read Jung's semi-autobiographical book "Memories,
Dreams, and Reflections?"  In it, Jung recounts Freud's early
opposition to the paranormal, although Jung himself was convinced of its
validity.  In fact, in his Sigmund Freud chapter, Jung writes:

"It interested me to hear Freud's views on precognition and on
parapsychology in general.  When I visited him in Vienna in 1909 I
asked him what he thought of these matters.  Because of his materialistic
prejudice, he rejected this entire complex of questions as nonsensical,
and did so in terms of so shallow a positivism that I had difficulty in
checking the sharp retort on the tip of my tongue. It was some years
before he recognized the seriousness of parapsychology and acknowledged
the factuality of "occult" phenomena."

Then Jung goes on to describe an actual paranormal event that occurred
while he was with Freud!

"While Freud was going on this way, I had a curious sensation.  It was
as if my diaphragm were made of iron and were becoming red-hot - a 
glowing vault.  And at that moment there was such a loud report in the
bookcase, which stood right next to us, that we both started up in
alarm, fearing the thing was going to topple over on us.  I said to
Freud:  "There, that is an example of a so-called catalytic
exteriorization phenomenon."
   "Oh come," he exclaimed.  "That is sheer bosh."
"It is not,"  I replied.  "You are mistaken, Herr Professor.  And to
prove my point I now predict that in a moment there will be another
such loud report!"  Sure enough, no sooner had I said the words than
the same detonation went off in the bookcase.  
    To this day I do not know what gave me this certainty.  But I
knew beyond all doubt that the report would come again.  Freud only
stared aghast at me.  I do not know what was in his mind, or what
his look meant.  In any case, this incident aroused his mistrust of
me, and I had the feeling that I had done something against him.  I
never afterward discussed the incident with him."

Quite an incredible story to say the least.  I doubt myself if it
were just a coincidence of events.  And its hard to believe Jung
would fabricate such a story, especially near the end of his life.

But I myself did not know Freud actually came to support
paranormal phenomena on the whole of it.  I am interested in your
article, please post.
Newsgroups: alt.paranormal