HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: pallas@cephalo.neusc.bcm.tmc.edu (Sarah Pallas)
Newsgroups: rec.equestrian
Subject: Re: Need a Friend
Date: 21 Jul 1992 22:53:06 GMT
Organization: Baylor College of Medicine, Houston,Tx

In article <HANNAH.92Jul21095637@pomponio.ai.sri.com> hannah@pomponio.ai.sri.com (Marsha Jo Hannah) writes:

>	Horse = Equus caballus.
>	Donkey = Burro = Ass = Equus asinus.
>	Onager = Equus onager.
>	Zebra = Equus zebra.
>
>I.e. all are distinct sub-species of genus equus, and each has a
>different number of chromosomes, which guarantees that offspring will
>NOT be fertile [stuff deleted]

I hate to be picky but, if they have different names, they are
different SPECIES, not different sub-species.  The term subspecies
refers to variants within a species, and in this case the Latin name
would have three parts.

The suborder Hippomorpha (Equus species) is in the Family Equidae 
(horses, asses and zebras), the order Perissodactyla 
(odd-toed ungulates, like horses, rhinos and tapirs), infraclass 
Eutheria (placentals), subclass Theria (typical mammals), class 
Mammalia.  They are part of a group of animals known as Ungulates, 
which includes all hoofed mammals, like pigs, cattle, antelope, 
camels, goats, buffalo, etc.

Equidae includes one genus (Equus) and seven different species.  These
include Equus burchelli (Burchell's zebra), Equus grevyi (Grevy's 
zebra), Equus caballus (the subject of this newsgroup), Equus asinus
(domestic donkey), Equus hemionus (onagers/kiangs/wild asses), and
Equus przewalskii (Przewalski's horse).  I could not find reference to 
Equus zebra in my texts, but perhaps that is the 7th?

Note that there may be some disagreement between different texts on
the classification scheme, e.g., the necessity for the suborder
Hippomorpha.

Sarah Pallas
(a zoologist, once upon a time)
Newsgroups: rec.equestrian
Subject: RE: Rubber bands?
From: sbishop@desire.wright.edu
Date: 24 Jul 92 07:40:39 EST
Organization: Wright State University 

In article <1992Jul23.170415.8882@uoft02.utoledo.edu>, lcasey@uoft02.utoledo.edu writes:
> Banding manes down to make them lie flat against the horses neck is a must
> at AQHA shows in halter and western events.  It is not required in the rules,
> but for appearances sake, you better do it, just as you wash and clip to
> look good in the ring.
> 

I think it looks silly.  Properly pulled mane DOES lay flat, the horse we
were showing looked just fine without the bands.

And the judge we were showing for said they were REQUIRED!

This was an open show, some of the horses in the Western classes were Paints,
some were Appaloosas and at least one was Arab.  Arabs show with full mane
and the rubber bands are forbidden according to their breed standard.

Sue

> Some open show associations, such as Tri-State Rmost do it to look good.
> 
> Leigh
> that band manes. Again, it is not required, but your horse looks
>  
Newsgroups: rec.equestrian
From: sysmatt@aix3090b.uky.edu (James M. Simpson)
Subject: Re: IN SEARCH OF RIDING!
Organization: University Of Kentucky, Dept. of Math Sciences
Date: Fri, 31 Jul 1992 08:17:49 GMT
Distribution: usa

AS.GGG@forsythe.stanford.edu (Gwyn Gordon) writes:

>-gwyn.gordon@forsythe.stanford.edu

>"You can lead a horse to water, but you can't make it jump."

Oh yeah?? Well, I've been riding since before I was out of diapers,
and I've got tons of experience, and I *can* make it jump. So there.
Nyah, nyah, nyah ....

Sorry, I couldn't resist that one :-))) =
From: hannah@pomponio.ai.sri.com (Marsha Jo Hannah)
Newsgroups: rec.equestrian
Subject: Re: THANX (was: Need a Friend)
Date: 23 Jul 92 18:27:30 GMT
Organization: SRI International, Menlo Park, CA
In-reply-to: blythedr@infonode.ingr.com's message of 23 Jul 92 03:04:17 GMT

In article <1992Jul23.030417.2501@infonode.ingr.com> blythedr@infonode.ingr.com (Dennis Blythe) writes:

    One last question... Does anyone know if donkeys are known to chew 
   wooden fences. I'm sure some do, however I was wondering if all 
   donkeys tend to do this?

   Pam

I'll give you a clue---one of Shadow's many nicknames is "Miss
Termite"!  Everything wooden within her reach is either pressure
treated lumber or has been painted with creosote (before it was taken
off the market).  This was done on the advice of her breeder, which
leads me to believe that it's a fairly widespread problem.  I think it
stems from donkeys being easy keepers, so they have to be fed less and
not be let out on pasture much.  They have to do something, so they
eat fences.  They have also been known to chew on horses' tails, and
Shadow's daddy once bit the ears off of a lamb!  It helps if they have
toys---an old tire, an old rubber bucket, etc.  When she gets bored
with that, Shadow will try to dump her water tub, try to remove her
fly mask, or look for other mischief to get into (this may also be why
she picks on the horses if left in with them).  Keeping a donkey can
be challenging, but part of the fun is seeing if you can outsmart `em!

Marsha Jo Hannah		Murphy must have been a horseman--
La Honda, CA			anything that can go wrong, will!
From: paw@coos.dartmouth.edu (Pat Wilson)
Newsgroups: rec.equestrian
Subject: Re: Olympic cross-country
Date: 31 Jul 92 13:12:28 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: Dartmouth College, Hanover, NH

pattyh@sequent.com (Patty Hansen) writes:


>Hello everyone!

>I saw the broadcast coverage of the cross-country portion of the
>three-day event last night.  Unfortunately, all the networks seems
>to think is fit to broadcast are the falls and crashes.  They didn't
>bother to tell us much about how the victims of those crashes fared
>afterwards.  There were two that were particularly disturbing.  One
>was a horse that fell trying to jump through the "hole in the bush"
>obstacle.  All they said was that the horse was down for half an
>hour, without saying what happened afterwards.  The other one wasn't
>a victim of a jump, but of the heat.  This poor horse barely
>crossed the finish line, and just stood there, trembling all over
>so badly that I wouldn't have been surprised to see him fall.

>Does anyone know how these horses are?  I don't have the triplecast
>(too expensive!), so all I get is the network stuff.  I guess
>there's some controversy over the heat, too.  Anyone?

All are fine.  The EUN (Unified Team) horse, whose name escapes me,
was the one that went down at the keyhole, and rumors were rampant that
he had been put down.  It seems, though, that he was just exhausted,
and they'd tranked him to move and hauled him back to the barn on a
flatbed truck (hence the "put down" rumor).  He was up and walking
around yesterday.

The other horse you refer to is Sandscript, ridden by Todd Trewin.
He(?) is better today, too, though it was dicey for awhile.  The judges
(rightly so, IMHO) went so far as to *eliminate* Todd, rather than
let them withdraw after cross-country - it was their opinion that
Trewin should have pulled his horse up rather than let it continue to
the finish.  I must say that I agree - it was clear by the 4th fence
that this horse wasn't itself, and asking it to jump fences 30-33 was
criminal.  I got that same feeling watching that as I did when I saw
that woman marathoner finish in 1988 - "please, make them stop!".  It's
a shame Trewin got carried away by the moment.  I _did_ want to hit
Melanie Smith Taylor, who was blathering on about how wonderful it
was that Todd finished the course - it's clear from her comments then
and at other times that she just doesn't understand eventing.

Oh well...  I must tip my hat to NBC's PPV (after beating them up about
the first day coverage) - they gave us _every_ phase D ride, and even
ran long the next day with stadium (bumping some of the gymnastics!).



--
Pat Wilson
Systems Manager, Project NORTHSTAR
paw@northstar.dartmouth.edu
Newsgroups: rec.equestrian
Newsgroups: rec.equestrian

In rec.equestrian, lcasey@uoft02.utoledo.edu writes:

    Hi all!

   I have a snotty tb suckling filly that hates to be haltered.  Two of us
   got a halter on her this weekend and I've opted to leave the halter on her
   all the time against my better judgement.  I can't catch her alone (I caught
   both hind feet in the ribs the last time I tried) and she can't be turned out
   unless she has a halter on.

Why does the filly have to have a halter on?  She will just follow her
mom around.  So when you catch mom, you'll have the baby too.

   The question is, has anyone had problems with leaving a halter on a baby
   all the time?  Hopefully, she'll get over this attitude problem soon!

Please don't leave the halter on all the time.  Only put a halter on
the baby when you can watch.  Babies tend to scratch their heads with
their tiny back hoof and that hoof can easily get into the halter.  Babies
will also rub on something and catch the halter.  Having no experience in
such things, they panic and can hang themselves (so do some older horses
as well.)

Try going into the stall and just petting your filly.  Don't require her
to do anything.  You should sit on the ground and let her come to you.
You might bring in some grain.  The mare will come over to get the treat
and show the filly that you are harmless.   When the filly begins to
trust you, circle the baby with your arms and hold her for just a second.
Let her go.  Then go back to letting her come to you.  Repeat this
for several days till she trusts you enough that you can hold her for
a bit longer.  Then you will be able to halter her easier.


   WIsh me luck, I'm taking my QH hunter mare to a *Third* vet to try and find
   out why she has been lame for a year.  So far, no vet has come up with
   a reason.  Even her x-rays are clean.


Have you considered the lameness might be a muscle related problem
rather than a bone problem.  X-rays show up problems in bones and
ligiments.  You may have a shoulder problem or even a back problem.
One person on the net had a weird lameness that couldn't be diagnosed
by anybody.  He/she talked to a massage therapist (Messenger or something
like that).  The horse had a large knot in the shoulder muscle.  Once
that was worked out, the lameness went away.

   Leigh


Wendy
From: susan@noaapmel.gov (Susan Collicott)
Newsgroups: rec.equestrian
Subject: Re: re riding without a guide
Date: 29 Jul 92 17:46:21 GMT
Organization: NOAA/PMEL, Sand Point Way, Seattle, WA


I like your ideas, katherine.  I wouldn't mind following your guidelines!

Like I have said before, if the guide is pleasant, imaginative, intelligent,
or heck even just personable, bring 'em on! I'll do a guided ride!  But if
they're just there to pass the time before they can go back and drink the
last of the beer, I'd rather not.

After all, I am paying them to do me a service.  As the buyer, I should be
able to make judgements about the products and service I am getting.  Would
you buy a car from someone who reeked of cheap wine and pot?  (Ok, so 
maybe you would.)  Would you *trust* someone who didn'T even bother to zip
up their jeans, or didn't even bother to check if the horse's hooves were
ok?  I wouldn't.   If I'm shelling out hard earned money, I have a right to
request decent services.

Also, while I talk about no guide, I don't mean just me and me alone going
out there.  I'm not stupid.  I'm usually riding with two other women, but
I prefer four in the group (if someone is hurt, one stays and two go back).
If the fourth is the guide, even better.  *IF* the guide is good.
Oh, and yes, I have been a guide and a wrangler and a dude ranch worker.

Ok.  I've said my piece.  I tried to delete my earlier (and much more
'wounded' tone while posting) article, but I couldn't get the stupid 
server to recognize me.  I apologize for that one.  Was having a bit of
a hairy day (Needed to go commune with a horse to make it better!). I
won't be doing any more posting on this subject. I'm just sorry that I 
hopped in it, in the first place!
Newsgroups: rec.equestrian
From: meyer@uuisis.isis.org (Katherine Meyer)
Subject: Re: Hard/Soft mouth?
Organization: International Shared Information Service (Ottawa)
Date: Wed, 29 Jul 92 03:02:09 GMT


PS.  I rode both my first horse and the thoroughbred out on the trail with
the milder (thicker) bits and had no problem there either.  

I thought this would go directly to the e-mail account but I guess I made a
mistake.  SORRY.  KM.
From: tracy@scoraz.resp-sci.arizona.edu (Tracy Scheinkman)
Newsgroups: rec.equestrian
Subject: interbreeding (was: help need friend)
Date: 26 Jul 92 08:07:55 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: University of Arizona, Tucson, AZ

In biology the definition of a species involves either physical or
social inability to breed with another of the same genus and produce
viable, fertile offspring.  In this case, all of the species mentioned
are incapable of producing fertile offspring because of either differences
in chromosome number or inability of chromosomes to match up properly.
In the case of the Arabian horse, while it did at one time constitute
a sub-species, it never made it to the point where either Arabians and
horses would not willingly interbreed, or they could not produce fertile
offspring.  These are really the only two important tests on the species
question.  A sub-species differs from a breed only in that a sub-species
must have been isolated either physically or otherwise be unable (as in
the case of ponies and miniatures) to breed with another of the same species
though different sub-species.  In addition a sub-species usually shows 
anatomical differences from the main species or other sub-species.  The 
Arabian passes both of these tests.  Essentially isolated for many years by
geography on the Arabian peninsula as wild horses they developed
certain anatomical characteristics which are unique to most though
not all Arabian horses (due probably to contamination by outside blood, horses
brought in and released into the wild by humans long before the Arabian
we know today was exported for the improvement of other horses).  These
characteristics are things like 5 lumbar vertebrae instead of 6 (in
Thoroughbreds, and Thoroughbred-related horses) or 7 (in other horses),
17 pairs of ribs instead of 18 (in Thoroughbreds) and 19 (in other horses),
2 less caudal or tail vertebrae, and certain measurable skull differences
involving things like the shape of the orbits or eyesockets. 

				Tracy and everybody
From: donnag@hpfcso.FC.HP.COM (Donna Griffiths)
Date: Mon, 27 Jul 1992 03:04:05 GMT
Subject: Re: re: interest in horses on the decline? (was western riding and helmets)
Organization: Hewlett-Packard, Fort Collins, CO, USA
Newsgroups: rec.equestrian

Note that one of the cowboys at a local rodeo DIED because he
knocked heads with the BULL! Guess he got thrown and hit the bulls
head on the way down, he was only 17 or 18, what a tragedy!!

Donna "need to buy a Good hardhat!" G.
From: lmn00@cd.amdahl.com (Linda Newell)
Newsgroups: rec.equestrian
Subject: Re: Airborne Horse-Eaters
Date: 29 Jul 92 17:28:00 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: Amdahl Corporation, Sunnyvale CA

In article <1992Jul28.232707.28398@morrow.stanford.edu>,
XT.JGC@forsythe.stanford.edu (John Claudy) writes:
>I missed the initial post on this, but I can add hangliders
>to the list. 
> . . .
>After about 200 yards he slowed down and (this is the truth)
>a man stepped out of a phone booth and caught him as he went
>by.  
Ha!  I ride regularly in the same park.  My horse is not and
has really never been afraid of hang gliders.  The civil war
reenactment sort of got to him, though.  What REALLY scares
him is the phone booth.  He saw it eat somebody one day.  I
finally got him to walk up to it and, believe it or not, the
phone rang!  It was pretty funny.  He seems to be over the
fear now.
Linda
From: susan@noaapmel.gov (Susan Collicott)
Newsgroups: rec.equestrian
Subject: Re: gymkhanas in the States
Date: 21 Jul 92 23:57:25 GMT
Article-I.D.: wimpie.SUSAN.92Jul21155725
Organization: NOAA/PMEL, Sand Point Way, Seattle, WA


yes! I rode in many gymkhanas when growing up ... the dollar bill ride
and the champagne ride were two that we loved.  One time I won the dollar
bill ride only because my poor horse hadn't quite shed his winter coat, and
so sweated quite easily.  Even after I'd slid off his back at the end of
the contest, that dollar bill was still stuck to him! :)  While it wouldn't
have counted if there were other people with bills still in, luckily in my
case everyone had already lost their bills, so I was the winner.

Oh, and we used sparkling apple cider instead of champagne. ;)

We always had a lead-line class in the gymkhana - you got to put an adult
up on the horse, and lead the horse around, and make the adults do silly
things.  Mom and I came in fourth the first time, and she refused from then
on.  I thought she looked kinda silly up on that old horse, so I didn't mind
her refusing. :)

We also did things like see who could pick up the bandana from the ground
while riding bareback past it at a trot, keyholes, pole bending, egg-in-a-
spoon (we hated that one), hobble races (you hobble your partner and then
'lead' them around the ring and over obstacles - I loved being the hobbled
person - I could beat everyone! While this one didn't involve a horse, it 
gave the horses a cooling off time if the day was really hot.), transfering-
sticks, backing mazes (someone builds a maze with old fence poles on the
ground, and you had to back your horse all the way through it without a 
mis-step) and oh geez, more games than I can remember!

I think as long as you keep it fun, and not a *hot* competition (some
competition is *fun* - but when people start cheating or abusing horses than
the competition is too much - in my humble opinion, of course.), then the
riders really learn.  I know I learned many things from gymkanas - how
to keep my temper under control was the biggest one!!  The instant I started
getting fuming upset, my horse would hunch his back and start ... well, 
passing gas, and after that we couldn't do a *thing*!  I'd over correct,
he'd get angry and purposely step out of bounds or purposely reach over and
take a nip at some other kid's leg...sigh!  Taught me quite clearly that
controlling my anger at losing or making a mistake is one of the most
important things in competing...and in life!  I can even lose at hearts now
without crying. :)  And in backgammon!   Losing at scrabble still annoys me
though....


Susan Collicott - Computer Services - NOAA PMEL - Seattle, Washington
susan@noaapmel.gov
From: doconnor@sedona.intel.com (Dennis O'Connor)
Newsgroups: rec.equestrian
Subject: Re: Equine Viral Arteritis - quarantine in New England, corrected
Date: 26 Jul 92 15:59:39 GMT
	<1992Jul20.184650.25097@dartvax.dartmouth.edu>
	<1992Jul20.195909.10903@osf.org> <1992Jul21.120646.28222@osf.org>
	<Jul.25.11.40.49.1992.29253@romulus.rutgers.edu>
Organization: Intel i960(tm) Architecture
In-reply-to: shoopak@romulus.rutgers.edu's message of 25 Jul 92 15:40:50 GMT


shoopak@romulus.rutgers.edu (-r.) writes:
] What is the news about Connecticut?  Is that EVA, too?  The news seemed to
] mention that the riders were to be quarantined with their horses for 48 hrs.
]
] Now, is it EVA, or something on the order of Hoof'n'Mouth?

It's not Foot and Mouth Disease (FMD), commonly called Hoof and Mouth.
More below ...

] the leader of the club's daughter has H'n'M, and she >still< lets the girl
] "play" around the other animals, sooo...I want to put some minds at rest...

I don't know what the girl has, but it's not livestock FMD. There hasn't
been an outbreak of FMD in the US since 1929, mostly because of the
draconian measures used to prevent it.

FMD is incurable, highly contagious, and highly lethal. It can be carried
by surviving animals up to 3 years. It can also be transmitted in
milk, venerially, in vaccines from infected animals, in pituatary extract,
and even in dried or salted hides. FMD affects almost every animal that
has a hoof, including cattle, pigs, sheep, goats, horses, deer, elephants 
and antelopes. It also affects voles, rats and hedgehogs.

In the US, if a single animal with FMD is found every carrier animal within
30 miles is slaughtered and cremated. The place where the infected animal
was found is quarantined, including the people and vehicles there. After
30 days, a "sentinal" animal in introduced into the area. If none of them
contract FMD for 30 more days, restocking is allowed.

Importing animals from countries that have had outbreaks of FMD is
very strictly controlled : the animals must be quarantined with other
susceptible animals for I think a year : given the results if the
animal is an FMD carrier, you can imagine this is very expensive.
When cattlemen wanted to introduce the skin-twitch from the Brahma
into US cattle, they had to go through this quarantine process.
Shipping semen from countries with FMD is not allowed.

When shipping horses, it's my understanding that if your horse
where to even land at an airport in a country that has FMD,
it would be subjected to quarantine. Horses are resistant to FMD
but can carry it.

North and Central America, Australia, New Zealand, Japan and Ireland
are free of FMD, as are the Caribbean and most of the islands of the
Pacific. Great Britain and "many Western European countries" are
free "most of the time" according to my Merck Veterinary Manual.
Is Spain ( where the Olympics are held ) free of it ?

You can see why I doubt there is any FMD in New England !
What this "Hoof'n'Mouth" is that the girl has, I don't know.


--
Dennis O'Connor			doconnor@sedona.intel.com
Newsgroups: rec.equestrian
Subject: Re: Advice needed on training
From: sbishop@desire.wright.edu
Date: 23 Jul 92 18:46:13 EST
Organization: Wright State University 

In article <1992Jul23.161513.15707@intelhf.hf.intel.com>, brett@brett.intel.com (Brett Branch) writes:
> Hi folks,
> 
> I've been around horses all my life, but find myself training a two-year-old
> Arab for the first time. He works really well with a lunge line, even with
> the reins and me on his back. Next we had my wife stand in the center of our
> arena, as if she was lunging him, but I was on him with the reins controlling
> him (no lunge line). I tried, as the next step, to ride him around the arena
> without my wife in the center, but then the colt seemed to get lost. As soon
> as my wife left, he no longer seemed to know what was expected.
> I'm hoping the collective wisdom of the net can help me find an effective
> method to take this handsome, well-mannered colt to the next level. (ground
> reining? how do you do it?)
> 

ARRRGH!!!!

First of all, since you asked for it.... turn this baby out to pasture for at
least another year.  Arabs mature very slowly, their knees are still far from
closed, they are just NOT, *NOT* ready to ride at age two.  I didn't have
my mare trained until age five, a little late but she was even slower to
mature than other Arabs I've seen.  

Sue


> 		Thanks,
> 			Brett
> 
> 
> ****************************************************************************
> Brett Branch			|	I didn't do it
> iNTEL Corp.			|	Nobody saw me do it
> 696-4234			|	You can't prove anything...
> brett@brett.intel.com		|
> "Backup my hard drive? You mean these things will actually go in reverse?!?"
> ****************************************************************************
From: wendy@hpfcmgw.FC.HP.COM (Wendy Milner)
Date: Fri, 24 Jul 1992 16:13:22 GMT
Subject: Re: lethal whites
Organization: HP Fort Collins, CO
Newsgroups: rec.equestrian

I sent Linda the FAQ on color.

Wendy