HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
Original_To:  @CHRISTIA
Original_cc:  WRBANEK
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.christia
Date:         Mon, 27 Jul 1992 14:55:00 CDT
From:         "john d. wrbanek" <WRBANEK@FNAL.BITNET>
Subject:      Re: Spiritual leadership in the home

In article <CHRISTIA%92072407035857@ASUACAD.BITNET>, ROGER@TEMPLEVM.BITNET
(Roger A. Phyall) writes:
>Thanks John, for sharing with us.  Question:  Have you noticed we are speaking
>in terms of true spiritual leadership and also "headship" or **Who's the Boss**
>in and of the family?  Scriptural family structure says the husband is the head
>of the family, but when it comes to pure spiritual (church) then Christ is the
>Head.  We husbands should love our wives even as Christ loves the church.  And
>the wives should submit unto (there's discussion on this point) their husbands
>and love their husbands even as they love Christ.  Lastly, you, John, are 100%
>corect that the leadership does come from Christ, after all that's the Head of
>the family structure.  But we mortals are still going to ask *Who's the Boss?*
>So this mortal asks John (again) and others willing to share, who here on Earth
>has the final word in your family with or without divine guidance??
>
>**Caution there's a little trick in that question.

In article <CHRISTIA%92072410515024@ASUACAD.BITNET>, BSCURR01@ULKYVM.LOUISVILLE
.EDU (Brenda Curry-White) responds to Roger:
>This thread grows wearisome, but I will respond.  Neither my husband nor
>myself asks "Who's the boss?"  We respect each other too much to get caught
>up in games of simple one-up-manship.  Neither of us has the final word,
>because emphasizing one partner's "right" to have a final word contradicts
>the idea that at times one partner may have better insight into problem
>solution, while in another situation the other partner might best know the
>appropriate solution.

My point.  Thank you, Brenda.

I guess I don't see the trick.


  Fermi Nat'l Accelerator Lab.       |        |          |           |
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  P.O.Box 500 MS 355           /| /_/| || | /_|\. /\/\/| |_||_\| ||/_|\
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                               /|    john d. wrbanek    fnal::wrbanek
  My opinions aren't those     \|    fnald::wrbanek     wrbanek@fnal.bitnet
  of the FNAL, URA, DOE, or          disney::wrbanek    wrbanek@fnalf.fnal.gov
  anyone except myself (thank God)   warner::wrbanek    wrbanek@elmer.fnal.gov
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Date:         Wed, 29 Jul 1992 12:11:57 EDT
From:         Leo W <Leo_W@QM.CIRCA.UFL.EDU>
Subject:      Scripturette 7/29
X-To:         Christia <christia@asuvm.inre.asu.edu>

"No one knows when that day or time will be.  Even the Son and the angels in
heaven don't know.  Only the Father knows" (Matthew 24:36).

"When the Son of Man comes, it will be the same as what happened during Noah's
time" (Matthew 24:37).

"They knew nothing about what was happening.  But then the flood came, and all
those people were destroyed.  It will be the same when the Son of Man comes"
(Matthew 24:39).

"So always be ready.  You don't know the day your Lord will come" (Matthew
24:42).

"It is important for you to understand what will happen in the last days.
People will laugh at you.  They will live doing the evil things they want to
do.  They will say, "Jesus promised to come again.  Where is he?  Our fathers
have died.  But the world continues the way it has been since it was made."
But they do not want to remember what happened long ago.  God spoke and made
heaven and earth.  He made the earth from water and with water.  Then the world
was flooded and destroyed with water.  And that same word of God is keeping
heaven and earth that we have now.  They are being kept to be destroyed by
fire.  They are being kept for the Judgment Day and the destruction of all who
are against God ...

"The Lord is not slow in doing what he promised -- the way some people
understand slowness.  But God is being patient with you.  He does not want
anyone to be lost.  He wants everyone to change his heart and life.

"But the day the Lord comes again will be a surprise, like a thief.  The skies
will disappear with a loud noise.  Everything in the skies will be destroyed by
fire.  And the earth and everything in it will be burned up.  In that way
everything will be destroyed.  So what kind of people should you be?" (2 Peter
3:3-11).

Yours in Christ Jesus,
Leo

Scriptures quoted from the International Children's Bible (ICB), New Century
Version, copyright 1986, 1988 by Word Publishing, Dallas, Texas 75039.  Used by
permission.
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.christia
From: mchamberland@violet.uwaterloo.ca (Marc Chamberland)
Subject: secret sin (was Re:masturbation)
Organization: University of Waterloo
Date: Fri, 31 Jul 1992 16:32:36 GMT


In reference to your thread on masturbation, I was reminded of the
following incident.

A Christian mystic, Sundar Singh (for whom I have an immense respect),
admitted after years of ministry that like St. Paul ( 2 Cor. 12)
he was caught up into paradise, and saw things unspeakable.
Through the prompting of his friends, he relunctantly wrote
a small book entitled "Visions of the Spiritual World" which tells
of some of the things he saw. I am very reluctant to lend
this book to anyone, not that I disagree with his experience
or visions, but I believe it could sidetrack people.

Sundar Singh relates one story which I believe could be
profitable:

"The following was also related to me in a vision. A man in the
secret of his own room was committing a sinful act, and he thought
that his sin was hidden. One of the saints said, 'How I wish
that the spiritual eyes of this man were open at the time, then
he would never have dared to commit this sin!' For in that room
were a number of angels and saints, as well as some spirits
of his dear ones, who had come to help him. All of them were
grieved to see his shameful conduct, and one of them said,
'We came to help him, but now we will have to be witnesses
against him at the time of his judgement. He cannot see us, but we all
can see him indulging in this sin. Would that this man would repent,
and be saved from the punishment to come!' "

I haven't explained all the terms and setting here, nor do I wish to
for brevity, but the bottom line is we should see the true work of 
grace done in hearts so that we may be truly free from the
ravages of sin, and then we may have rejoicing in ourselves.
(Prov. 14:14, Gal. 6:4).

I have seen the Lord's grace in my life to save me from masturbation,
and I know of several others who had the same experience.

Marc Chamberland
mchamberland@violet.uwaterloo.ca
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Newsgroups: bit.listserv.christia
Date:         Mon, 27 Jul 1992 08:42:14 EDT
Comments:     Converted from PROFS to RFC822 format by PUMP V2.2X
From:         Brenda Curry-White <BSCURR01@ULKYVM.LOUISVILLE.EDU>
Subject:      Peretti's "Prophet" - found a cheap one

Urban Research Institute
Phone: 502-588-6626

Someone mentioned that they were having difficulty locating a library copy
of Peretti's book and that they could not afford the bookstore version.  I
happened to be in Sam's warehouse over the weekend, and they were selling
the paperback versions for $7.62 (U.S.).  That can still be a lot of money
if it's not in your budget, but it's cheaper than the bookstore prices.

Sam's warehouse is a membership warehouse, owned by the Wal-mart conglomerate.
They used to offer free memberships, but they are changing their membership
policies, so I don't know if they still do.  Working for a university
qualifies you for membership, among other occupations.

Brenda
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Newsgroups: bit.listserv.christia
Date:         Mon, 27 Jul 1992 06:52:47 EDT
From:         MKLINE%VDH.BITNET@VTVM2.CC.VT.EDU
Subject:      Re: Family Values
X-To:         christia%asuacad.BITNET@VTVM2.CC.VT.EDU

Subject: Re: Family Values
Marty ----------------------------------------------------------->
I don't keep clipping files of such matters, but I have read of
children being taken from their parents for alleged abuse when the
children injured themselves in ordinary childhood accidents.

MAKS> My nephew fell out of a tree, freely admits he fell out of a
      tree which gave him a nasty black and blue shoulder, but his
      parents have been called into several "counciling sessions"
      and are labeled as child abusers by the "system". Yes, it
      does happen.

Maks.
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Newsgroups: bit.listserv.christia
Date:         Tue, 21 Jul 1992 12:21:11 CST
From:         A16905@ITESO.BITNET
Subject:      Ruben Alonso Santana

Hi, I'm back.

I want to talk a bit about Ruben. He was a student of Electronic Engineering
here at ITESO, he graduated on June 12. He was a christian, good example for
young people that want to live in faith. He attended to the same church I do.

WE used to say 'hello' when we met but never more than that, not a great
frienship. I knew better his brother Fernando, we organized a retreat once,
when I was in High School.

Last summer his younger brother Gabriel was in my group in the summer classes
at my church.

Ruben dien on June 15. He was a member of CHRISTIA (I guess he never posted
anything) (that dien above is a typo, he died).

His family is strong in the Lord and they are all recovered now, but please
say a prayer for them so the Lord bless them with the joy in the Spirit of
knowing that Ruben is just fine seeing the Lord forever.

Next post is about the Anual Congress of the CRHS, Gabriel and his brother
Elias (both brothers of Ruben) went there, Prais the Lord and read the next
report. (I can't stand this keyborad ! I tried to say 'Praise the Lord')

Finally, Madge and Steven, I think you should remove Ruben from the list to
prevent some overhead (i don't know ifhe set himself to NOMAIL).

Shalom,
Memo.
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Newsgroups: bit.listserv.christia
Date:         Tue, 28 Jul 1992 08:53:42 EST
From:         Ian Williams <iwilliam@AU.ORACLE.COM>
Subject:      Re: Repentence
X-To:         CHRISTIA@ASUVM.INRE.ASU.EDU
              "jstahley@QUALCOMM.COM" at Jul 27, 92 10:15 am

>
>I have had a terrible two weeks. First off I am a Recovering alcoholic with
>a little over a year of sobriety,but something has happened to me. I did
>not go out and use alcohol, I went and used some crack. I also had sex with
>person that I am not married to. I feel very ashamed and guilty. I had a
>relationship with a christian woman that went sour. I have been punishing
>myself for the past three weeks and I surrender to the Lord. I have been a
>christian for about 10 months and have not really been a good one at it. I
>want to do the right things but sometimes I really don't know what they
>are. Where do I start? Also I need some prayers other than my own to get
>thru this confusion,hurt and pain. I feel that I am not deserving of god's
>love because of what I had done. Could someone out there help me out?
>
>
>
>                                JSTAHLEY@ATHENA.QUALCOMM.COM
>
>                                RECEIVING INSPECTION DEPARTMENT
>

Hi, I sent you a private message, please reply if you did not receive it
(personally) to iwilliam@au.oracle.com


---------------------+-------------+-----------------------------------------
Ian Williams         |    _--_|\   |      Internet: iwilliam@au.oracle.com
Oracle Systems       |   /      \  |	  Phone	  : +61 8 239 3900
Adelaide, Australia  |   \_.--*_/  |
                     |         v   |
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Date:         Thu, 30 Jul 1992 08:30:10 -0400
From:         "Toni J. Benner" <tjbenner@COLBY.EDU>
Subject: Re: From the listowners (please read)
X-To:         CHRISTIA@ASUVM.INRE.ASU.EDU

I am in favor  of leaving things the way they are. I think it works very
well.
Toni
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Newsgroups: bit.listserv.christia
Date:         Wed, 22 Jul 1992 16:17:00 EST
From:         "Lauren H. Arango" <LHARANGO@OWUCOMCN.BITNET>
Subject:      the Episcopal Church's position

Darren Provine writes,

>Lauren H Arango takes issue with some of my earlier comments about the
>Episcopal Church.  Several Episcopal bishops (John Spong of New Jersey, and
>at least one other) have ordained active homosexuals to the priesthood; I
>took this to be an indication that the denomination has moved away from a
>more strictly traditional view of sexual behaviour.
>
>In any case, if there are official statements from the Episcopal Church that
>would clarify the group-as-a-whole's position on human sexual behaviour, by
>all means educate me.

I'll be seeing our priest this afternoon in prayer group; I'll ask her to
direct me to where the official statement can be found.  I'll also ask
her for the official statement on abortion, if you're interested.

>Is it okay for me to join the KKK provided I try to change them from within?
>How about the Communist Party or the American Nazi Party?  The Mafia?

What do you mean by "okay"?  Morally okay?  I suppose that's a decision
that you would have to make.

>I rather doubt that, eg, Randall Terry would remain a member of the Episcopal
>church given their official statement about abortion.

That may well be, but what does that have to do with me?  I'm not Randall
Terry.  I'm where I honestly believe God wants me to be.  I'm doing His
work the best I can discern it.  I believe that abortion is wrong.  I
also believe that God wants me where I am, at least for now.

N.O.E.L. (the National Organization of Episcopalians for Life) is, by the
way, officially recognized by the Episcopal Church.

                                        God's peace,
                                        Lauren
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.christia
From: creps@silver.ucs.indiana.edu (Steve Creps)
Subject: Re: Remarriage after Divorce?
Organization: Indiana University
Date: Thu, 30 Jul 1992 17:32:56 GMT


   By the way, in my previous posting I neglected to mention that in the
Catholic Church, whether or not a person is divorced has nothing to do with
whether or not he is in a state of grace.  If two people simply cannot get
along, the Church does not force them to live together.

   The only problem from this standpoint comes in when someone tries to
remarry when their previous marriage is determined to be valid (actually,
not yet, if ever, determined to be invalid).

-	-	-	-	-	-	-	-	-	-
Steve Creps, Indiana University
creps@silver.ucs.indiana.edu
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Newsgroups: bit.listserv.christia
Date:         Thu, 23 Jul 1992 10:04:00 CDT
From:         Brenda/Bren <BJGAGE@KSUVM.BITNET>
Subject:      Prayer Request

Hello...I'm a new subscriber to Christia and for the past week I have
just observed what it was all about.  I have been strengthened from many
of the posting that were received and for this I am truly thankful.
My daughter and I have been passing through a hard place but I have the
faith that God will never lead us to a place He is not able to keep us..
and that what we are experiencing is a trial of our faith as well as a
learning experience.

Please be remembering my daughter especially because her father has re-
jected her.  He does not want to have anything to do with her...he has
cut the ties and it's pretty hard for an impressionable 14 year old to
understand why he would do such a thing.  I can see the effect of the
hurt and anger she feels by her reactions and the drastic change of
attitude so I am requesting that you please remember us in your prayers.


I am trying to commit all of this to the Lord and leave it in His hands
because He alone knows.  This has been a troublesome situation and I
pray that God will intervene.  Also remember her father, for he too
needs prayer.
               Yours in Christ---
                        Brenda
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Original_cc:  WRBANEK
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.christia
Date:         Wed, 22 Jul 1992 15:34:00 CDT
From:         "john d. wrbanek" <WRBANEK@FNAL.BITNET>
Subject:      Test

Hello again all!

I'm trying something new to keep down my personal disk usage, which is already
at its limits (also saving taxpayer dough - wow!).  This is just a test, and to
let whoever cares (like Madge) know I'm out here.

Thanks!


  Fermi Nat'l Accelerator Lab.       |        |          |           |
  RD/SOD/Operations             .  _ |_  _   _|    , , ,_|_  _, _  _ |/
  P.O.Box 500  MS 355          /| /_/| || | /_|\. /\/\/| |_||_\| ||/_|\
  Batavia, IL 60510             |/
                               /|    john d. wrbanek    fnal::wrbanek
  My opinions aren't those     \|    fnald::wrbanek     wrbanek@fnal.bitnet
  of the FNAL, URA, DOE, or          disney::wrbanek    wrbanek@fnalf.fnal.gov
  anyone except myself (thank God)   warner::wrbanek    wrbanek@elmer.fnal.gov
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Newsgroups: bit.listserv.christia
Date:         Tue, 28 Jul 1992 05:43:14 CDT
From:         Jesse Carnes <NOTJIC@LSUVM.BITNET>
Subject:      The Problem of Evil

To all on Christia ;

Some people have posted regarding Amy Grant's music change-over.
One person reacted as if Grant were in sin.
Now, we must consider the problem of EVIL/SIN according to BIBLICAL
perameters. One person was aghast as to how could Amy Grant sing the
music she does when it clearly does not glorify God.

Let me say for an aside that sensual motives or monetary lusts are clearly
catagorically condemned within the Word.  Amy Grant must keep a clear
conscience as to what she allows herself to perform/be exposed to, etc.
Nevertheless, a question at this juncture is this :
"What KIND of music is INHERENTLY evil?"
Anyone want to take a shot at this?  It gets a bit problematic because within
the scope of this question comes such music genres like folk music, baroque,
classical, romantic, impressionistic, jazz, contemporary, movie themes -- even
themes to movies like "Jesus of Nazareth", metal, r&b, etc.

The scriptures condemn sensuality and evil motives but it NEVER condemns
musical genres. If music genres were suspect, we must also include Bach's
"Jesu, Joy of Man's Desiring" , Handal's "Messiah" and even movie themes like
the overture to "The Ten Commandments."

So, what is REALLY evil in this case?  Ms. Grant has to keep her conscience
clear as to her lifestyle.  Otherwise, if we create a criterion of what is
evil in music outside the Word, then much of what is lovely must be eliminated.

The Word alone is our definition of good and evil.





                                      Jesse Carnes
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Newsgroups: bit.listserv.christia
Date:         Mon, 27 Jul 1992 14:58:46 EDT
From:         Julie Nott <STR008@UKCC.UKY.EDU>
Subject:      Re: Writers: Where to submit a story?
              23 Jul 1992 10:13:00 EDT from <Richard.Campbell@MVS.UDEL.EDU>

Richard:

In a previous post by Greywolf <peacock5293@iscsvax>, he mentioned a new
book?? called "Streetlight" that was going to be a collection of stories,
short articles, testimonies, cartoons, etc for christians.  He was mainly
asking for people from Iowa but I don't know if it will be limited to
people from Iowa.

Any-who -- The address he gave to submit to was:

Joe Baumhover
PO Box 111
Osage, IA  50461

Greywolf, you may want to elaborate on this a bit more, I just thought
I might help if Richard did not receive your post.

Julie
Organization: The American University - University Computing Center
Date: Tuesday, 28 Jul 1992 14:57:53 EDT
From: <LSMITH@auvm.american.edu>
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.christia
Subject: Amy Grant, etc., etc.

Listen everybody - I think the original intent of my comment was misconstrued.
 Maybe I should have gotten more detailed regarding exactly what I was trying t
o say.  No, I have never been to an Amy Grant concert.  I personally have never
cared for her music; however, for a first-time listener of THAT PARTICULAR RECO
RD much like myself, the first thought is not of a woman singing of the birth
 of her child.  THAT is what I am trying to say - for people who have little or
 no contact with the Holy Spirit, how can we expect them to discern the true me
aning of a song if it isn't more direct?

Sure, we have to reach the masses with the Good News of Jesus, and we are not g
oing to do it by being staunch, starched Christians.  Believe me, I know.  The
ministry that I am a partner of is located in a neighborhood in D.C. that has
the highest rate of violent crime of all the others in the District. Yet, every
 Saturday at 5:30 p.m. a group of us goes into the neighborhood and conducts th
e "Ministry of Reconciliation" - reconciling the community back to God.  I am v
ery aware of how we should approach non-believers with the Gospel.  I wouldn't
get over Jesus' message to a drug-dealer if I were this staid, stuck-up, consti
pated Christian.  the message is relaxed, it's colloquial, but it it STRAIGHTFO
RWARD and not watered-down.

And for those people who actually have been able to experience the presence of
God by listening to that type of song - to God be the Glory!!!

"If any man be in Christ, he is a new creature.  Old things have passed away, a
nd behold - all things have become new."

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Original_To:  BITNET%"christia@asuacad.bitnet"
Original_cc:  MARCHIBOLD
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.christia
Date:         Mon, 27 Jul 1992 07:50:00 MDT
From:         MARCHIBOLD@MSCD.BITNET
Subject:      Christian television and prayer request

Dear Christia listfolks

We in Denver have a Christian television station (broadcast, not cable)
which has been up and running for about 3 years.  They have a very small
paid staff and use volunteers for any local production they do.  Most of
what they air is purchased syndicated programming.  As a television
producer for the college I work for I'm one of their volunteers.  The
station has an opportunity to buy a production van complete with cameras
and control room but they need money to make a down payment.  The hitch is
that their annual fund drive comes up in about 2 months so they need to
find new and different money sources to pay for the van.  It is an
invaluable opportunity to broaden the base of interest in the station and
to increase the ability to produce local programs.

Please pray that they will a) find new wells of interest in Christian
television b) find the money to buy the van.  Thank you.

In His Love
Molly Archibold MARCHIBOLD@MSCD
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