HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: Chris_Millar@lppl.mi.org (Chris Millar)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
Subject: Re: Way to go Commodore! Yeah...right.
Distribution: world
Date: 14 Sep 92 16:20:18 EST
Organization: Les's Place BBS

Skip Sauls writes:
>If the Amiga were a hacked together piece of junk like the ST, it may have
>been easy to throw in a few new chips like Atari did with the Falcon.

There you go again Skip - you are obviously as stupid as you are annoying.
I would respect your right to free speech if you actually KNEW what you
were TALKING ABOUT - but the fact remains that you are as clueless as ever.
Your lame excuses for C='s lack of a mid-range machine by attacking Atari
are QUITE pathetic.......FYI, the Falcon is an almost COMPLETE redesign of
the motherboard and peripheral chips - something you're obviously blind to.

Before you go on your USUAL flame-tirade, I think I'll take the liberty to
get in the opening punches:  You, are a bitter and stupid young man - the
fact that you go to "'Ol Miss", own an Amiga, and are an active member of
amiga.advocacy proves you as such........If I hear any more of your oral
deficating, I'll be forced to bring over reams of TOS 4 code and shove them
down your throat........Are you up for it?


-- Via DLG Pro v0.992

Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
From: andrey@cco.caltech.edu (Andre T. Yew)
Subject: Re: Amazing Prediction
Organization: California Institute of Technology, Pasadena
Date: Tue, 15 Sep 1992 15:34:17 GMT

tron1@tronsbox.xei.com (Kenneth Jamieson) writes:

>	The fact is that he is right. The A400 and the AA chipset are
>just not good enough to capture a signifigant slice of the PC market.

	From what Jim Dionne said on Friday, that's not Commodore's
plans.  Their new advertising startegy is to go after vertical
markets, particularly multimedia (whatever that means), video,
presentation, and training markets.  Commodore does realize
they have a niche market and decided to concentrate their
efforts there.

--Andre

-- 
Andre Yew                             andrey@tybalt.caltech.edu (131.215.48.100)
From: gfm@hal.gnu.ai.mit.edu (George Francis McBay)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
Subject: Re: Questions for people attending WOC
Date: 15 Sep 92 19:58:48 GMT
Article-I.D.: mintaka.1992Sep15.195848.28377
Organization: /etc/organization

Frank R. Dana writes:
>BTW: While I'm on the topic, I'm sick of hearing about how great the A4000 
>and/or the Amiga line will be in "6 months"  or "two years" or "someday". Live
>in the present, guys. The IDE interface in the A4000 is NOT excused by the 
>fact that a SCSI board will be ready "soon". The inclusion of the old Paula
>chip is NOT excused by the fact (?) that we will have a DSP card "in 6 
>months". If the A4000 was not READY, it shouldn't have been RELEASED! 
>Commodore pulled the same crap with the A3000 - you got a beta version (for 
>all intents and purposes...) of the O/S, and missed out on a lot of 
>improvements. 

	The A3000 2.0 "beta test" was a GOOD THING.  Having thousands of people
willing to Beta test and report bugs on an operating system is exactly what
I want.  It's not as if Commodore stuck everyone with an unstable OS.  2.0
was pretty stable when released with the 3000, and if you needed the stability
of a released operating system, you could just use 1.3, no?  2.04 on disk was
available for free to all 3000 users (unless they had a cheating dealer) so 
they didn't miss out on anything when it was finished.  They could also buy 
the ROM upgrade for a very low price.

>So, if the A4000 isn't FINISHED yet, why didn't Commodore wait 9 months, get
>it __DONE__, and release it at the WOC New York next summer? 

	The problem isn't that the A4000 isn't "finished," it's that boneheads
like yourself don't understand why it's attempting to be modular.  Not
everyone NEEDS a DSP or SCSI, why should they have to pay for them when
all they want is an AGA equipped machine!?!  Far too many people on this news-
group seem to suffer from this problem as well.  I, for one, am glad the
A4000 is like this.  When it's released, you can bet dealers (and maybe C=)
will offer package deals with DSP (when release) and/or SCSI and/or other stuff
already installed.  But including them in all models would price the A4000
beyond what lots of people are willing to pay!  Kudos Commodore!
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
From: philip@utstat.uucp (Philip McDunnough)
Subject: Re: Critical mass getting bigger? - was re: AmigaWorld Lies about Links
Organization: University of Toronto, Dept. of Statistics
Date: Thu, 10 Sep 1992 07:47:29 GMT

In article <1992Sep9.145526.22235@ctr.columbia.edu> jerry@connection.prospect.com (Jerry Shekhel) writes:
[ ]
>>
>>Here's a guy that appears to be giving an honest opinion of at least two
>>machines (a GS and a clone).  He doesn't even really mention anything abou
>>the amiga being better, just that it "has nothing to apologise for".
>>

Ok, I've already said it before. I consider the  Amiga to be a classy computer,
and certainly better than a PC.
>
>He was being really annoying about it, with his bitching and moaning.  He was
>contributing to the animosity that exists towards Amiga enthusiasts.  He
>was being as much of an asshole ("... the worst micro ... most games are
>terrible, the computer is awful ...") as you accuse me of being.

Yes I was annoyed, becaues the PC world hasn't changed. It's as bad as the
days when I has a PS/2 model 80. PC's have set back progress in micro 
computing by years.
>
>>
>>Why would you post a two line *bash* of an Amiga user (or is he, he doesn't
>>say, and I can't remember) for these comments?  
>>
>
>Because his comments were chock-full of lies.  For example, the part about
>the 8MB PC only having 550KB of usable RAM.

That's not a lie +/- 50k depending on your memory manager. You simply don't
have more than 640k of real RAM (unless you use OS/2 or Unix, which is another
story. OS/2 does not support MPC's yet, and Unix is better run on a NeXT, for
example. I defy you to point to any evidence that DOS users have more than
640k of memory without going the extendor route.
>
>>
>>Can't you face the fact that everyone doesn't like the same things as you,
>>Jerry?
>>
>
>Oh, I see.  You blast me for being partial, but it's OK for someone who shares
>your point of view, right?  I hope you asked Philip that same question; if
>not, you're a hypocrite.

Look, Jerry I'm actually pretty open about PC's. I went so far as to get one.
I have a number of systems. It's simply the worst  of the lot. Please 
explain how you get around the 640k issue.

And perhaps you might explain  it to the MPC vendors while you are at it. Why
do you think QEMM does such a thriving business?
 
Philip McDunnough
philip@utstat.toronto.edu
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
From: laire@uni-paderborn.de (Ralph Schmidt)
Subject: Re: Enough AGA! WANTED: WRKBNCH2.1 SPEED INCREASE INFO!
Organization: Uni-GH Paderborn
Date: Mon, 14 Sep 1992 06:38:59 GMT

slbfn@cc.usu.edu writes:



>  I used to be worried about the AGA not fitting in A3000s (like mine),
>  but have decided for my purposes, 256 color 800x600 mode isn't quite
>  needed.  I don't view GIFs all day long...

>  Anyways, now my concerns have changed from AGA to Workbench 2.1

>  Ok, so the preferences have been updated, the Icon Editor a little
>  better, CrossDOS, and the fabled "locale.library"

>  Those are nice features, but what I am looking for is SPEED!
>  I am assuming (not to make an ass out of me and you or something)
>  that SOME code has been changed for better efficiency.  So, what
>  speed increase is there?  Any?  Or is 2.1 just 2.04 with some
>  "extras" programs, a library, and new preference editors.

Expecially the ASL-Filerequester is significant faster but all in all
2.1 is *only* a new Workbench that is worth the update.

>  And, when can I order 2.1?  And what cost?

>  Greetings,

>	Travis Carter
>	slbfn@cc.usu.edu
-- 
Ralph Schmidt                                            laire@uni-paderborn.de
University of Paderborn (Germany)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
From: jerry@connection.prospect.com (Jerry Shekhel)
Subject: Re: Interlace video (Was Re: PC (OS/2) / Amiga debate)
Organization: Molecular Simulations, Inc.
Date: Sun, 6 Sep 1992 22:12:21 GMT
X-Posted-From: connection.prospect.com
X-Posted-Through: sol.ctr.columbia.edu

mlelstv@speckled.mpifr-bonn.mpg.de (Michael van Elst) writes:
>
>Face it, you don't need what interlaced means. You think interlace=flicker,
>this is not true. The Amiga generates an 25Hz (PAL) or 30HZ (NTSC) framerate
>in its interlace mode. _This_ flickers. But the interlace _reduces_ flicker.
>If you could see a _non-interlaced_ 25 or 30Hz display you would know that.
>

I'm not sure what you're trying to say here, but my friend has a nice
1024x768 multi-sync monitor, and his SVGA card can display that resolution
in interlaced or non-interlaced mode (as can most SVGA cards).  We tried it
both ways.  You couldn't convince either of us in a million years that the
interlaced mode is easier on the eyes; in fact, the non-interlaced mode is
rock-solid, and the interlaced mode is practically unbearable.

>
>Ha. Many SVGA cards (admitted not the latest) will use interlace for
>1024x768.
>

Most SVGA cards can do both.

>>
>>Idealy, interlaced video mode should only be used when doing video work,
>>all other times it'll just put unnecessary strains on the eyes.
>
>As interlace reduces flicker this can't be true.
>

I think you've got your facts backwards.

>
>Michael van Elst
>
--
+-------------------+-----------------------+--------------------------------+
| Jerry J. Shekhel  | Molecular Simulations | Time just fades the pages      |
| Drummers do it... | Inc.  Waltham, MA USA | in my book of memories.        |
|    ... In rhythm! |     (617) 890-2888    |              -- Guns N' Roses  |
+-------------------+-----------------------+--------------------------------+
|           ...! [ princeton mit-eddie bu sunne ] !polygen!jerry             |
|                            jerry@polygen.com                               |
+----------------------------------------------------------------------------+
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
From: nwickham@nyx.cs.du.edu (Neal Wickham)
Subject: Re: FLASH a4000 price
X-Disclaimer: Nyx is a public access Unix system run by the University
	of Denver for the Denver community.  The University has neither
	control over nor responsibility for the opinions of users.
Organization: Nyx, Public Access Unix at U. of Denver Math/CS dept.
Date: Thu, 10 Sep 92 23:19:53 GMT

>>	Safe Harbor, a rather large local and mail-order company is reporting
>>a price of $2859 on the a4000.  The owner has been very very _very_ reliable
>>in the past and has never spread false information before.  Thats about it.
>>Again, I take this price seriously.  No indication of what it includes
>>or anything.      


This is probably right.  I just talked to a dealer here in Denver and he
said he was going to retail the A4000 for about $3200.  

He said it came standard with a 120 meg hard drive and with a DSP which
can be used for all sorts of things including fax and modem uses. 

He also said that the A4000 and A600 were the only computers to be
announced at WOC. ...that those were the only ones he heard about.  The
A4000 comes standard with an 040 and he had heard nothing of models
being sold without a processor.

...anyone got about $3000 they will lone me.  :)



                                     NCW
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
Subject: Re: Random tidbits regarding WOC & A4000
From: fheitkamp@desire.wright.edu
Date: 14 Sep 92 06:26:05 EST
Organization: Wright State University 

In article <1992Sep14.031650.29583@msuinfo.cl.msu.edu>, griffin@eecae.ee.msu.edu (Danny Griffin) writes:
> jprad@faatcrl.UUCP (Jack Radigan) writes:
> 
>>  I really think that IDE is a non-issue among average users.  
> 
> I don't agree, but maybe most of the Amiga owners I know aren't average.

	I am a little disapointed that Commodore is putting IDE on the 
	A4000.  I thought is was great that they put on the A600, a low
	end mass-market machine, but their high end should stay with SCSI.
	Does anyone know if you can plug one of those cheap PC tape drives
	onto a IDE controller?  This would make me feel a little better about
	IDE if it were possible.  


	I am still planning on getting an A4000, put I will have to get a
	SCSI controller.  Either that or sell the LPS105 I bought for my
	A2000.  Putting IDE on their currently flagship machine is very,
	very strange indeed.

> I'd hate to see the Amiga community turn into a bunch of boneheads who only
> shop price.
> -- 
> Dan Griffin
> griffin@egr.msu.edu
> "If an application takes two years to be developed, it's running at
> 0 MIPS, no matter what hardware platform it's running on" - Jobs
Fred Heitkamp,  ** My opinions only.  Not an organization **

Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
From: stigo@ifi.uio.no (Stig Arne Olsen)
Subject: Good ol' times
Organization: Dept. of Informatics, University of Oslo, Norway
Date: Mon, 7 Sep 1992 11:21:11 GMT
Originator: stigo@holmenkollen.ifi.uio.no


"Amiga forever", "Amiga - born a champion" - anyone remember all
these statements from the good old kick/wb 1.2?
By holding all the shift-keys and (with your third hand) pressing
the F-keys you got all kinds of "interesting" messages.

Now, I wonder has there been any "Dale Luck - the wizard extraordinere"
in any of the newer AmigaDos - releases? Or have the developers lost
their sense of humour? In other words - does anyone know any funny
hacks in Kick2.04? Or is it the slow hardware-development that's
supposed to be funny :-) ?

Although C= might have been slow to introduce new hardware, their
software dept. is obviously under some very good management. Just
when we've got 2.0 there are rumours of 2.1 and 3.0.

Stig A. Olsen
(putting off the '486 purchase till after WOC-Pasadena)
stigo@ifi.uio.no
From: das9674@usl.edu (Stephenson Daniel A)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
Subject: Re: Re: Shakeout in PC Industry Continues
Date: 14 Sep 92 23:49:19 GMT
Organization: University of Southwestern Louisiana

In article <25380011@hpsad.sad.hp.com> kevint@hpsad.sad.hp.com (Kevin Taddeucci) writes:
>
>About a year ago one of the PC Rags (can't remember which one) had a 
>rating of the quality of PC's based on repair records. Guess who was at 
>the bottom of the list. You guessed it, PACKARD BELL. I guess those good 
>deals aren't always good deals!

Hey, even Buicks get repaired. 

>      | Kevin J. Taddeucci          | e-mail: kevint@hpsad.sad.hp.com    |

--
*Dan Stephenson   das9674@usl.edu  
*
* "To conquer death, you only have to die,..."                   
*                             -Jesus , from _Jesus Christ Superstar_
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
From: jerry@connection.prospect.com (Jerry Shekhel)
Subject: Re: Amiga 4000/Atari Falc
Organization: Molecular Simulations, Inc.
Date: Thu, 10 Sep 1992 14:54:43 GMT
X-Posted-From: connection.prospect.com
X-Posted-Through: sol.ctr.columbia.edu

In article <tony.716080993@ais.org> tony@ais.org (Tony Poole) writes:
>
>>No, I just think that a computer grafted on top of another computer is
>>a kludge.  It has nothing to do with the Intel CPU.
>
>Heh.....funny you don't think that about one operating system grafted on top
>of another as being a kludge.  Or, do you actually feel this way about
>Windows?
>

No.  Software is always designed in layers; there's nothing wrong with that.
The real reason the two products are separate (DOS and Windows) is that Bill
Gates would rather have two MS products on every PC instead of just one.

>
>Tony Poole                       tony@umcc.ais.org * tony@irie.ais.org 
>
--
+-------------------+-----------------------+--------------------------------+
| Jerry J. Shekhel  | Molecular Simulations | Time just fades the pages      |
| Drummers do it... | Inc.  Waltham, MA USA | in my book of memories.        |
|    ... In rhythm! |     (617) 890-2888    |              -- Guns N' Roses  |
+-------------------+-----------------------+--------------------------------+
|           ...! [ princeton mit-eddie bu sunne ] !polygen!jerry             |
|                            jerry@polygen.com                               |
+----------------------------------------------------------------------------+
From: lkoop@TIGGER.STCLOUD.MSUS.EDU (LaMonte Koop)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
Subject: Re: A4000 at WOC
Date: 12 Sep 92 20:10:52 GMT
Reply-To: lkoop@TIGGER.STCLOUD.MSUS.EDU
Organization: St. Cloud State University, St. Cloud, MN

In article <1992Sep12.071832.16158@news.iastate.edu>, barrett@iastate.edu (Marc N Barrett) writes:
>In article <1992Sep12.010011.9732@cco.caltech.edu> keith@cco.caltech.edu (Keith Allan Schneider) writes:
>>When in 256 color mode, the machine really crawled.
>>Just moving this icon around was horrible.  The reason for this, I believe
>>is that the AA Chipset, although 32 bit, is still only 7MHz or something
>>(to keep in sync with NTSC).  The performance was worse than a Mac with
>>a 68030 in 256 color mode.  At least in the workbench (using 3.0).  Maybe
>>there are still some bugs, but it was alot slower than expected.
>
>   In a way, the AA chipset is going to become the great equalizer, in favor of
>systems like the Mac and IBM systems which have had 256-color hi-res modes for
>a long time.  Ever since the Mac II and IBM SVGA systems first started coming
>out, people have been complaining about their slowness while stating (falsely)
>that the Amiga was faster.  The real problem all along has been that 640x480x8
>is a hell of a lot of data to move around, and the Amiga did not have any modes
>to use as a comparison against these systems.  Sure, the Amiga seemed faster,
>but only because it's inferior display meant that it was not burdoned with 
>moving lots of data around.
>
>   But along comes the AA chipset, and we finally get to see how an Amiga 
>performs with 8 bitplanes at 640x480, and we see that it **CRAWLS**.  In fact,
>we find that the Workbench is **UNUSABLE** in 256-color mode because it is
>so slow, even though the Mac and IBM systems -- which have been available for
>much longer -- are pokish but still very usable with 256 colors.

    Interesting enough how you are making your own assumptions based upon
second and third hand reports.  In actuality, it depends on personal opinion
as to how fast the new chipset is under high resolution, 256 color mode.
Most liken it to the speed of an A3000 under a 640x400 interlaced 16 color
WorkBench.  Under lesser modes the machine is very snappy indeed.  Please
do not make unfair comparisons before you've actually seen the system Marc.

                 ----------------------------------------
           LaMonte Koop -- SCSU Electrical/Computer Engineering
 Internet: lkoop@tigger.stcloud.msus.edu -OR- f00012@kanga.stcloud.msus.edu
              "You mean you want MORE lights on this thing???"
 ---------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: barrett@snoopy.cs.umass.edu (Daniel Barrett)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
Subject: CHECK YOUR ATTRIBUTIONS (was Re: More AmigaWorld Lies)
Date: 6 Sep 92 23:06:54 GMT
Reply-To: barrett@snoopy.cs.umass.edu (Daniel Barrett)
Organization: BLAZEMONGER INCORPORATED

In article <David_Braun.047m@panam.wimsey.bc.ca> David_Braun@panam.wimsey.bc.ca (David Braun) writes:
>In a message dated Sat  5 Sep 92 11:50, Mlelstv@specklec.mpifr-Bonn.mpg.de 
>wrote:
> MB> Barrett) writes:
>> Hell, in a nearby town, there are *two* stores that specialize in
>>the Amiga on the same *street*!  I guess I can conclude that every street
>>has 2 Amiga dealers, making the total... oh... seven hundred thousand?

	Marc Barrett did not write that.  I did.  And it was a joke.  Please
CHECK your attributions ("who said what") before posting.  Thank you.

                                                        Dan

 //////////////////////////////////////\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\
| Dan Barrett -- Dept of Computer Science, Lederle Graduate Research Center |
| University of Massachusetts, Amherst, MA  01003  --  barrett@cs.umass.edu |
 \\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\/////////////////////////////////////
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
From: andrey@cco.caltech.edu (Andre T. Yew)
Subject: Re: WOC summary, 9/12, part 2 (LONG)
Organization: California Institute of Technology, Pasadena
Date: Tue, 15 Sep 1992 16:40:48 GMT

Richard.Cole@bbs.actrix.gen.nz writes:

>If Louis was in fact Lewis Eggebrecht, then Commodore committed
>the incredible act of hiring the architect of the kludge heard
>round the world, the IBM PC, and put the Amiga's future in
>his hands!

	Yup, he's the one.  He gave a little history about himself
at the beginning of the talk, and he said that he helped
design the IBM PC.  He's also worked on IBM's mainframe
systems.  Hopefully, being a human being and all, he's learned
quite a bit in 12 years and will do better than the IBM PC.

>Did anyone bother to ask him why their "improved" facilities 
>can't come up with a new Paula that handles standard HD floppies?
>I'll be damned if I buy a $3000 "next generation" machine from
>any company that uses a slo-speed kludge to handle HD floppies.
>This is 1992!

	Nope, someone was busy asking four questions on the
C-64, C-128, and Print Shop.  Why don't you give them
time, and see what happens?  The future does look bright.

>Before Mr. Eggebrecht went toop deep into his "somewhere over
>the rainbow" spiel, I hope someone reminded him that the
>future is -now-!  If Commodore expects any knowledgeable
>person to fork over $3000 for a machine that has -no-
>1024x768 mode, -no- SCSI, -no- 16-bit sound, and does
>not even have a standard HD floppy, then I'll call their
>bluff and predict the Amiga has as much future with
>Commodore as the PC jr. had with IBM.

	Well, whatever you want to believe is your choice.
Seriously, why 1024x768?  Because everyone else has it?
What's wrong with 800x600?  Why SCSI?  If you're going
to spend $3K+ for a machine, couldn't you spend an extra
$155 for an A2091 or a Hardframe?  I don't think the
16-bitness of it matters as much since those cards will
still outrun most harddisks.  Can you really tell the
difference between a properly dithered 8-bit signal and
a 16-bit signal?

	Why are you picking on these things when there are
so many other wonderful things in the 4000 to praise
as well?  Commodore finally talks openly about future
developments and all you can do is complain about it?
Especially when you don't even know what Commodore's
marketing plans are?  I don't claim to know them, but
I'm pretty sure it doesn't include domination of the
PC market.  If it does, they need their heads checked.

	What would you have said if Commodore didn't even
say anything about their future plans?

--Andre

-- 
Andre Yew                             andrey@tybalt.caltech.edu (131.215.48.100)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
From: ggg@kepler.unh.edu (Gregory G Greene)
Subject: Re: Random tidbits regarding WOC & A4000
Organization: University of New Hampshire  -  Durham, NH
Date: Wed, 16 Sep 1992 03:42:45 GMT

>>	For the same price, Gateway 2000 has an EISA 486 50mhz system with
>>  32 bit SCSI controller and 340meg SCSI HD.  More ram ( 2meg ).  System is
>>  a Tower version, not desktop.  Hicolor SVGA graphics card that offers 
>>  higher resolution.
>
>Yet another mail order clone. Oh well...Does the video support OS/2? These
>486 systems sound great until you use them.

	Yes, another mail order clone.  But one that uses high quality
   components, and yes, there are OS/2 drivers available for it.

							G.Greene

>Philip McDunnough
>University of Toronto
>philip@utstat.toronto.edu
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy