From: forda@gtephx.UUCP (Andrew Ford @ AGCS, Phoenix, Arizona)
Subject: "25 states..." .sig (was Re: Full-Auto 22s manufactured by Drug-Crazed DEATH SQUADS in GLASGOW)
Organization: gte
Date: Wed, 30 Sep 1992 22:11:48 GMT

In article <1992Sep26.004410.15593@credence.com>, jeffw@or.credence.com (Jeff Winslow) writes:
> >"25 States allow anyone to buy a gun, strap it on, and walk down the street
> >with no permit of any kind: some say it's crazy.  However, 4 out of 5 US
> >murders are committed in the other half of the country: so who is crazy?"  
> >-  Andrew Ford
> 
> The ones who don't realize "the other half of the country" has 80% of the
> population.
> 
> Not literally true, but close enough to expose the trick.
> 

[E-mail would be more appropriate in discussing a .sig, so if you 
wish to continue this thread, please take it off-line to me.]

(rec.backcountry has been removed from the thread -- this does
not belong there at all, the rest of the groups are either almost
apropriate or so full of noise that one more flame fest won't hurt.)

"A gun in your home is 47 times more likely to kill someone you
know" is also meaningless on its own -- and neither statement 
deserves the credit of being called a statistic -- factoid, maybe.

Those states with the 80% of the murders have 75% of the population.
If gun control "worked," you'd expect lower crime rates -- if that's
what gun control is supposed to do.  However, it does not work that
way in real life.  

The "gun control" states have more murders per capita for a whole host
of reasons, a small part of which is gun laws, but the biggest part is
the failure of the common citizen to stand up and help his fellow man
(with or without a gun).  As cities grow, people begin to accept that
security and welfare are the gov't's responsibility, so they become less
likley to act and more likely to wait for the cops to show up.  In the
largest of cities, people don't even bother to call the cops -- they
expect that all the other people will call. 

D.C. is the murder capitol of the US (and possibly the world): it is
also the gun control capitol of the US.  DC has a population of 660,000
(1990), an almost total ban on guns, and a murder rate of 77.7 (1990).

Phoenix, Arizona is the nation's tenth largest city (pop almost 2
million) and, for 1990, had a murder rate less than 15.4 (if all the
murders committed in the state were committed in Phoenix it would be
15.4 -- it is probably in the range of 10 - 14 murders per 100,000
people -- anyone can buy a gun, load it, strap it on, and walk down the
street).  

Both cities are metropolitan, both cities have a large number of poor
(Phoenix is a "homeless haven" because of its warm winters -- some
years we don't even get a freeze! 8^)  The chief differences are 
that Phoenix's minorities are more hispanic than black and Phoenicians
are still free people with the right to protect themselves.  (Laws
concerning justification in this state protect the person who truly
defends himself both from criminal and civil liability -- and most
justified shootings don't even result in an arrest or confiscation
of the gun -- even some unjustified shootings result in nothing more
than an explanation of the law and a stern "Be careful" from the 
police!)

We even took it a step further a year or two ago: under a recently
enacted law, if a person is killed during a commission of a felony
as a result of the felony being committed, all suspects are charged
with murder.  I recently read where a Tucson teenager was charged 
with murder when her brother was shot and killed by a gun-shop owner
whom the suspect, her brother and another teenager were trying to
rob.  Talk about poetic justice!  

My basic position is this:

    Guns don't affect crime, people affect crime.  When 
    ordinary citizens stand ready, willing, and able to act
    against criminals during the commission of a crime, 
    crime rates decline.  When ordinary citizens hide away 
    and hope that "Big Brother" will take care of it, crime 
    increases.

    When government bans or restricts guns, they make it 
    difficult or impossible for ordinary citizens to get 
    and/or use guns.  At the same time, criminals - those
    who, by definition, break the law - will still get guns,
    much as they still get drugs in spite of a total ban 
    (and drugs are consumed, whereas one gun and 1,000 rounds
    of ammunition can last ten years).  An armed citizen    
    stands a reasonable chance of surviving an encounter
    with a criminal -- a disarmed citizen stands a good 
    chance of being maimed or killed: this is where guns
    come into the scene, in places where citizens can 
    carry, more of them are willing to take a proactive
    stance against crime.

    How can one possibly hope to accomplish any good by 
    lowering the ratio of armed ordinary citizens to armed
    criminals?

Want to fight crime?  Start with eliminating plea bargaining and
parole for felons who have committed a violent act against a person
during the commission of a felony (I'd consider waving a knife in
someone's face a violent attack).  Given 25 years for a violent
assault upon a person, the average criminal would only get one
repeat offense (just doing that would more than half our crime 
rate!).

Next, make prisons a miserable place to be instead of a place that
is better than life on the streets!  Eliminate all recreation 
facilities (having convicts come out of prison looking like Arnold
Schwarzenegger does us all a lot of good, now doesn't it?);  Reduce
the quality of food to edible, but bland (ie: grits for brkfst, 
steamed vegies for lunch, and beans for dinner);  Eliminate TV 
(Christ, I don't even get cable TV yet! -- there's not enough left
over after taking care of the bills and the kids); Eliminate
conjugal visits, cigarettes, "Christmas packages", etc;  Make them
sweat like pigs all summer and shivver all winter.  In short, make
prison an absolute *hell*hole*!

Then, legalize drugs.  Junkies who are high are virtually harmless
(similar to wino laying in the street drunk); but a junkie needing
a fix will do anything to anybody to get that fix.  Aside from that,
legalizing drugs will stop the cash flow which has allowed the gangs
to arm themselves, will de-glorify drugs (they're so cheap that anyone
can get 'em), and will take away the incentives ($$$) that pushers have
for getting people started on drugs.

Also, we ought to eliminate all other "victimless" crimes to allow law 
enforcement to concentrate on real crimes.

Finally, people need to take a long hard look at the LA riots an realize
that when it gets right down to it, the world is a cold, harsh place and
either you protect yourself, friends, neighbors, and fellow citizens or
you submit to the whims of criminals.  (I really don't think that my
carrying a gun is going to be of much good to me -- it is far more
likely that my fellow citizen's gun will brought to my defense or
vice versa ---and *that* is what made America the great country that
it once was.)

-- 
"25 States allow anyone to buy a gun, strap it on, and walk down the street with
no permit of any kind: some say it's crazy.  However, 4 out of 5 US murders are 
committed in the other half of the country: so who is crazy?"   -  Andrew Ford
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