HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: nwickham@nyx.cs.du.edu (Neal Wickham)
Subject: Re: Random tidbits regarding WOC & A4000
X-Disclaimer: Nyx is a public access Unix system run by the University
	of Denver for the Denver community.  The University has neither
	control over nor responsibility for the opinions of users.
Organization: Nyx, Public Access Unix at U. of Denver Math/CS dept.
Date: Tue, 15 Sep 92 23:30:38 GMT

In article <1992Sep15.120455.256@newshost.unh.edu> pss1@kepler.unh.edu (Paul S Secinaro) writes:

>If you're just comparing on the basis of price alone, the A4000's lack
>of built-in SCSI makes it easier to beat pricewise.  Without the EISA
>SCSI controller and large HD that many EISA clones come bundled with,
>EISA is not that much more expensive than ISA (last time I looked, it
>was around $400, but I've heard it is much less than that now.)  I've
>seen EISA systems with IDE controllers (I think some have EISA IDE
>controllers, but I haven't been keeping up on it lately) plus the
>usual clone package in the low $2K range.  A good 16-bit sound card
>is, I think, around $150-$250.


What is the brand name of these cheap clones?    Whammo!?  Nixon?  What
kind of support do you get?  They gonna make it through the shakeout?
 

>In terms of graphics, it is very easy to find systems with Hicolor
>SVGA or S3 at no discernable extra cost, and there are several
>low-cost 24-bit cards either available now or annouced.  The Diamond
>Speedstar 24X is one example (<$200 street price, 640x480x24, Western
>Digital accelerator chip)


I personally think that Ham8 has it all over 24-bit gfx.  What kind of
animations do you plan on doing with 24-bit gfx?  Where you going to
store all those 24-bit files or how much CPU time will you use to uncompress
them?  You going to start cutting into those Kill-All 30 Meg operating
systems?  I think I'll wait for the 586 or even 686 to handle all that.  


>There are also the VESA VL-bus "local bus" systems to consider.  These
>could potentially cost less than EISA.


And then you have to factor in the overhead of the PC final solution 
30 meg OS's.




                                      NCW
From: rjc@hal.gnu.ai.mit.edu (Ray)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
Subject: Re: CDTV is dead.
Date: 5 Sep 92 05:43:11 GMT
Organization: /etc/organization

In article <1992Sep4.224431.1758@news.iastate.edu> barrett@iastate.edu (Marc N Barrett) writes:
>   As an example, someone mentioned that the AA chipset uses 1.6 micron CMOS
>technology.  To put it bluntly, 1.6 micron CMOS sucks.  I looked through my
>complete set of Intel databooks, and noticed that Intel was using 2.0 micron
>technologies way back in *1978*, and was using 1.2 micron CMOS technologies
>by 1983.  If 1.6 micron CMOS is the best technology that Commodore has
>available to them in-house, you can forget about anyone ever buying them out.

  Marc, aren't you studying to become an engineer?  Do you know
anything about Chip Fabrication and its costs? Producing denser
chips hasn't got much cheaper, in fact, it keeps getting more expensive.
Intel's last fabrication plant cost a half-BILLION dollars to build.
.4-.2 micro will be even more expensive (.1 micron is generally
acknowledged to be the limit for silicon).  The newest lithography
techniques like X-Ray lithography require particle accelerators!
(IBM uses LLNL's accelerator for their new .2 micron experiments)
We are talking sterile, vibration proof, high tech, high energy,
factories staffed with thousands of expensive EE/MEs.

   I will tell you right now, that for Commodore to build a a .6-.8
fab plant will cost 1/5 - 1/2 the total net worth of the company.
Explain to me how Commodore could afford to mass produce a .8 micron
chipset (build their own fab plant)? The best thing they could do
would be to contract out to a Japanese company, but they could 
never mass produce .6-.8 themselves.

   1.6 micron CMOS is fine for a chipset. Most chipsets you find 
in VGA cards are 1.2 or greater. Your complaints are really getting
pathetic. Atleast the AA chips won't be stupid shifters like VGA and
will actually contain some _real_ logic.

   Let's ask Dave Haynie how much he thinks a .6 micron production
line would cost. I'd say about $400-500 million, but I am by no
means an expert.
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
From: mlelstv@speckled.mpifr-bonn.mpg.de (Michael van Elst)
Subject: Re: Interlace video (Was Re: PC (OS/2) / Amiga debate)
Organization: Max-Planck-Institut f"ur Radioastronomie
Date: Fri, 4 Sep 1992 23:42:30 GMT

In <187t3iINNk58@matt.ksu.ksu.edu> nan@matt.ksu.ksu.edu (Nan Zou) writes:
>But let's face it -- interlaced video is bad for the eyes, the fact that it
>facilitates video work is irrelevant.

Face it, you don't need what interlaced means. You think interlace=flicker,
this is not true. The Amiga generates an 25Hz (PAL) or 30HZ (NTSC) framerate
in its interlace mode. _This_ flickers. But the interlace _reduces_ flicker.
If you could see a _non-interlaced_ 25 or 30Hz display you would know that.

>>nobody in the PC market had ever heard of interlacing.

Ha. Many SVGA cards (admitted not the latest) will use interlace for
1024x768.

>Idealy, interlaced video mode should only be used when doing video work,
>all other times it'll just put unnecessary strains on the eyes.

As interlace reduces flicker this can't be true.

Regards,
-- 
Michael van Elst
UUCP:     universe!local-cluster!milky-way!sol!earth!uunet!unido!mpirbn!p554mve
Internet: p554mve@mpirbn.mpifr-bonn.mpg.de
                                "A potential Snark may lurk in every tree."
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
From: tony@ais.org (Tony Poole)
Subject: Re: PC (OS/2) / Amiga debate -- hopefully a rational debate <- (ha!)
Organization: UMCC
Date: Fri, 11 Sep 1992 00:35:24 GMT

jerry@connection.prospect.com (Jerry Shekhel) writes:

>>
>>Can the hardware provide the facilities for instantaneous
>>screen swapping though?
>>

>Yes.  A typical 1MB VGA can store 6 screens of 640x480x4 graphics.  Switching
>is instantaneous, via a "display start address" register.

Do the graphics get updated on the screens that aren't displayed?


-- 

----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Tony Poole                       tony@umcc.ais.org * tony@irie.ais.org 
Traverse City, MI USA          tony@cherry1.trv.mi.us * tony@cherry1.UUCP
From: glens@natinst.com (Glen Sescila)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
Subject: Re: aga chipset for amiga
Date: 15 Sep 92 15:35:52 GMT
Organization: National Instruments, Austin, TX
NNTP-Posting-Host: falcon.natinst.com


gerald@seas.gwu.edu (Gerald G. Washington) writes:

> You need more than 256 colors for Workbench!  I am just curious as to why.

	So you can run Intuition Applications that use the windowing
system with lots of colors in each applications window maybe?

Duh.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Now You're Playing With Power Without The Price!"  Glen Sescila   |||
                                                                  / | \
My opinions do not necessarily reflect those of my employer and probably are
exact opposites.	InterNet: glens@natinst.com	GEnie: G.SESCILA
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: jprad@faatcrl.UUCP (Jack Radigan)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
Subject: Re: PC (OS/2) / Amiga debate -- hopefully a rational debate, an I an ideali
Date: 11 Sep 92 19:46:21 GMT
Organization: FAA Technical Center, Atlantic City NJ

skip@tacky.cs.olemiss.edu (Skip Sauls) writes:

>Trivia Question : Where did the name Winchester come from?

>Clue : It does not refer to the Winchester Rifle.  For the longest 
>time I believed that there was something in the drives which was
>similar to the firing mechanism in a rifle.  :-)

  Actually, it did.  The first Winchester drive system had a numeric ID of
3030, which was the same as one of the rifle company's products.  The story
goes that one of the engineers was a gun buff and nicknamed it a Winchester
drive...

  I forget where I read it now, probably the old computer history column that
ran in Byte about 10 years ago...

  -jack-
From: slbfn@cc.usu.edu
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
Subject: The Reason Why A3000 Owners Are MAD!
Date: 14 Sep 92 13:07:53 MDT
Organization: Utah State University

After a great deal of thought, I've decided that the reason
A3000 owners (like myself) are pissed about not compat. AGA
is that we spend the extra damages on the A3000 so our machine's
could be upgraded.  Everything is 32bit except the custom chip
sockets.

Now, after spending mucho mulanda, we find our machines to be
tossed.  Most of us can appreciate the "tech goes on" philosiphy,
but those of us still in Gold Service (and have many months to
go before warranty is depleted) are quite upset about the loss
of money.  The A4000 will push A3000 prices down quite a bit.

Now, the big pain is asking myself "Why didn't I get a 2500?"
Much cheaper, and I can start saving up for the 4000.

But at the decision time, all was thinking, "I'll be able to
upgrade.  I've got Zorro III and complete 32 bit pathways."

I feel.....  used.

Greetings,

	Travis Carter
	slbfn@cc.usu.edu
From: glens@natinst.com (Glen Sescila)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
Subject: Re: aga chipset for amiga
Date: 12 Sep 1992 12:34:25 -0500
Organization: National Instruments, Austin, TX
Distribution: comp
NNTP-Posting-Host: falcon.natinst.com


	So, does the AGA chipset require HAM mode to get more than 256 colors
simultaneously?

Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
From: mlelstv@specklec.mpifr-bonn.mpg.de (Michael van Elst)
Subject: Re: Unreal demo!
Organization: Max-Planck-Institut f"ur Radioastronomie
Date: Sat, 5 Sep 1992 11:10:27 GMT

In <1881aiINNnm2@matt.ksu.ksu.edu> nan@matt.ksu.ksu.edu (Nan Zou) writes:
>davidme@qdpii.comp.qdpi.oz.au (David Meiklejohn) writes:

>>Of course, this discussion is irrelevant - HAM8 at 800x600 is going to blow
>>SVGA well out of the water...

>Even 800x600x24bit SVGA?  ;-)

Sure.. in terms of picture quality a 24bit display is slightly superior but
in terms of animation speed and needed disk storage for images the HAM8
mode wins by 3:1.

Regards,
-- 
Michael van Elst
UUCP:     universe!local-cluster!milky-way!sol!earth!uunet!unido!mpirbn!p554mve
Internet: p554mve@mpirbn.mpifr-bonn.mpg.de
                                "A potential Snark may lurk in every tree."
Xref: sparky comp.sys.amiga.advocacy:23158 comp.sys.amiga.misc:13467
From: chucks@pnet51.orb.mn.org (Erik Funkenbusch)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy,comp.sys.amiga.misc
Subject: Re: More AmigaWorld Lies
Date: 4 Sep 92 19:45:08 GMT
Organization: People-Net [pnet51], Minneapolis, MN.

lkoop@TIGGER.STCLOUD.MSUS.EDU (LaMonte Koop) writes:
>In article <1992Sep3.232209.4485@news.iastate.edu>, barrett@iastate.edu (Marc N Barrett) writes:
>>In article <wedYCta00j_H8IOBh4@cs.cmu.edu> Michael.Witbrock@cs.cmu.edu writes:
>>>> Excerpts from netnews.comp.sys.amiga.misc: 3-Sep-92 More AmigaWorld Lies
>>>> Marc N Barrett@iastate.e (3857)
>>>
>>>> Mr. Barney also goes on state facts that are simply wrong.  He states
>>>> that 
>>>> there are about 1000 Amiga dealers in the U.S., and there can't possibly
>>>> be 
>>>> this many.  
>>  4 dealers 
>>---------------- * 250 million == 250 dealers
>>4 million people
>>
>>
>>   Thus, most cities have to have a LOT more than 4 dealers per 4 million 
>>people for there to be 1000 of them in the U.S.
>>
>
>    Marc, this is REALLY getting old.  You have just demonstrated the 
>incredible power of unqualified statistical analysis (probably without
>realizing it): The ability to work the figures to whatever end goal is
>desired.

Mark, let me give you an example.  The Twin Cities area in Minnesota has
approximately 2 million people.  There are off the top of my head at least 6
dealers for this 2 million population metropolis.  This isn't counting places
like Software Etc, or EBX (a new store in the Mall of America that carries
CDTV) and many other places that you can buy hardware at.

There are also dealers in other parts of the state.  This definately does not
follow your statistical analysis does it?

By the way, I highly doubt pitsburgh has 4.5 million people in it.  Probably
closer to 1 million.

.--------------------------------------------------------------------------.
| UUCP: {amdahl!tcnet, crash}!orbit!pnet51!chucks | "I know he's come back |
| ARPA: crash!orbit!pnet51!chucks@nosc.mil        | from the dead, but do  |
| INET: chucks@pnet51.orb.mn.org                  | you really think he's  |
|-------------------------------------------------| moved back in?"        |
| Amiga programmer at large, employment options   | Lou Diamond Philips in |
| welcome, inquire within.                        | "The First Power".     |
`--------------------------------------------------------------------------'
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
From: SBACIR2@nervm.nerdc.ufl.edu
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
Subject: Re: AmigaWorld LIES about Amiga Links
Date: 4 Sep 92 13:32:15 GMT
Organization: University of Florida, NERDC

In article <1992Aug31.121110.18681@athena.mit.edu>
fihsu@athena.mit.edu (Hsu I-wei) writes:
 
>
>In article <1992Aug31.094150.7646@news.iastate.edu> barrett@iastate.edu (Marc N Barrett) writes:
>>
>> [ "explanation" of why Links 386 Pro blows away the Amiga version ]
>>
>>   What is my point about all this?  This is only the beginning for games on
>    ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>The same "point" you repeat over and over again??
>
Francis,  There is a phenomena called "habituation".  It means that when a
stimulus is repeatedly presented to a subject, the response evoked decreases
proportional to the number of presentations.  This phenomena facilitates
junkies of any kind requiring more and more of their "fix" to get the same
high.Any similarity between the above and Marc's behavior may be purely
co-incidental.
 
  However, and hopefully Commodore will show us something soon in California,
Marc is right.  Without a change the Amiga, which I love, will be swept into
the garbage heap by the plethora of junk platforms.  Evolution insists that the
manufacturers of the present "junk" (mainly MS-Clones) which survive will
provide platforms in the future which surpass the Amiga in every respect.
This is because the platform is eventually driven by two factors - what is
technically possible and what users want.
  Commodore could be one of these manufacturers.  My feeling about the Amiga,
and I've three of them, is that it has been a nice prototyping machine.
My S100-CP/M system and IBM-PC have bit the dust.  I would hope the Amiga would
evolve...but I don't have much faith in Commodore's chances given the magnitude
of the force generated by the MS-Clone machines.  I just enjoy it, now, because
overall there is currently no better platform.  But now could be over by next
Friday.
d.GAP also wizard@gap.ir.sbac.edu |voice:904-336-3510/FAX:904-338-7822
From: dleslie@aludra.usc.edu (David Leslie)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
Subject: Re: Upgrade path from A3000 -> A4000?  Ask at WOC!
Date: 12 Sep 1992 05:17:36 -0700
Organization: University of Southern California, Los Angeles, CA
NNTP-Posting-Host: aludra.usc.edu

In article <jeremym.716271182@sfu.ca> jeremym@fraser.sfu.ca (Jeremy Thomas McDonald) writes:
>Could somene be kind enough to ask
>Dionne if CBM plans to offer a trade-up plan for the A3000 -> A4000?
>Thanks!

It was asked of the marketing guy, and I was surprised to hear a blunt 'no'.
They didn't really seem into any sort of trade up, though at a later date,
another 'power-up' type plan will be considered. Methinks they want new
users for the A4000, not repeat buyers. Or maybe they figure that we'll all
have to buy it anyway..:)

/--------------------------------------------------------------------\
| Amiga  ///    |  U.S.C. Trojans  | Live   | David Leslie           |
|       ///     |     Fight On!    | Fast-  |                        |
|   \\\///      |        --        | Die    | dleslie@usc.edu        |
|    \XX/ A1000 |     Go Kings!    | Young- |                        |
\--------------------------------------------------------------------/
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
From: philip@utstat.uucp (Philip McDunnough)
Subject: Amiga's and Software
Organization: University of Toronto, Dept. of Statistics
Date: Tue, 15 Sep 1992 20:13:40 GMT

Now that C= is heading down a very interesting path hardware wise, don't
you think it's about time some attention was paid to the software end of 
things. In particular, where are the educational applications? AmigaVision
should be great for that. Why are companies such as BroderBrund not 
supporting the Amiga?
 
C= is making great hardware, but that's just 1/2 the story. There are some
software holes that need filling. If only to sell A600's to homes. Why
would a family want one if there was no software for it (educational that is).
 
Philip McDunnough
University of Toronto
philip@utstat.toronto.edu


Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy,comp.sys.amiga.misc
From: monty@sagpd1 ()
Subject: Re: More AmigaWorld Lies
Reply-To: monty@sagpd1.UUCP (Monty Saine)
Organization: Scientific Atlanta, Government Products Div, San Diego, CA
Date: Thu, 10 Sep 1992 15:54:43 GMT

In article <1992Sep3.232209.4485@news.iastate.edu> barrett@iastate.edu (Marc N Barrett) writes:
>   You have just supplied information to support my argument.  I already 
>said that there are tow Amiga dealers in Nebraska and Iowa; since Nebraska
>and Iowa have a combined population of 4.5 million people, that's two Amiga
>dealers per 4.5 million people.  What's the population of Pittsburgh?  
>Probably pretty close to 4.5 million.  So if the rest of the nation is like
>this -- about 4 dealers per 4 million peopleor so, with 250 million people in
>the U.S. total -- we get:
>
>  4 dealers 
>---------------- * 250 million == 250 dealers
>4 million people
>
>
>   Thus, most cities have to have a LOT more than 4 dealers per 4 million 
>people for there to be 1000 of them in the U.S.
>

	Marc,

	To find out how many dealers there are in the US, you first have to 
    define what constitutes a dealer. A purest may say that only a store that 
    deals soley in Amigas is a dealer. Under that definition there are none
    here in San Diego. Add in ones that carry more then Amigas and we are up
    to about 6, add in the retail stores like Montgomery Wards that sell
    A500's and we go up to about 10. 

	So what defines a dealer? Using the last criteria above I would say
    1000 is probably short of the mark. Use the middle one and 1000 seems
    like a reasonable number. Use the first and there are probably less
    than 50 in the US.

    Monty Saine

Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
From: ggiles@cie.uoregon.edu (Gregg Giles)
Subject: Re: A4000 Specs? Who knows.
Organization: University of Oregon Campus Information Exchange
Date: Tue, 15 Sep 92 14:56:49 GMT

In article <BuLMMI.Bzy@starnine.com> mikeh@starnine.com (Mike Haas) writes:
>
>We can't cater to single-floppy users.  That is ridiculous.  There
>is nothing wrong with assuming that the system files & drawers are
>available.

   It's actually hard enough to support dual disk-drives. I believe that on one
of my more recent projects, one of the programmers spent a week on making the
game fit on disks and then optimizing the locations of the files so someone with
a single disk drive would not have to swap all day long. That's not really
necessary, but we did it anyway. I wished more A500 users would get hard disks.
You'd see more games made for the Amiga.

>Anyone who only has a single floppy drive and not-enough ram
>to use a ram disk...well, there's just nothing developers can do
>to keep such a machine from being a headache.  They also aren't
>serious about using their computer.  After all, how much does that
>second floppy cost these days?

   About $90 - that's still a fraction of the A500's current $299 cost. I'm
really amazed that the Amiga seems to be the only computer still being sold
without a hard disk (the low end models such as the A500; the A2000 might be
being bundled standard with a hard disk now, but I'm not positive about that.)
   Let's just say that certain companies are waiting for a big change in the
average machine configuration of the Amiga before they start or resume
developing applications and games for it. 
   Living on disk drives was fine for the mid-80's, but those days are gone.

-- 
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Gregg Giles (Dynamix, Inc.)                 BIX: ggiles 
All opinions expressed are my own.          Internet: ggiles@cie.uoregon.edu
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
From: gblock@csd4.csd.uwm.edu (Gregory R Block)
Subject: Re: Problems with the A4000
Organization: University of Wisconsin - Milwaukee
Date: Wed, 16 Sep 1992 00:06:38 GMT

James_Mcormond@jammys.ocunix.on.ca (James Mcormond) writes:
: Its not like IDE is that much of a transfer rate difference.  Equivalent
: drives, are basically the same price, and same speed, so why not fill up
: the IDE port with a single HD.

Hey, Jammer.  :)

If I'm correct, and I'm really not sure on this architecturally, but
I'm pretty sure that the IDE system in the 4000 is NOT driven by DMA.
It, as IDE is normally found, is a polled IO system.

The faster the transfer rate, the more CPU you use.  A lot of people
would rather not suck the life out of their CPU when they've got SCSI
in a slot which uses 2-5% of the available CPU rather than 100% during
transfers.

Agreed?  I mean, isn't that the reason a lot of people want a bigger
FIFO on their serial port?  :)

--
(: (: (: (: Have you overdosed on smileys today?  Why NOT!?! :) :) :) :)
(: 	"Yeah, if improving the system is screwing the user base,     :)
(:	 you all need to be screwed more often." -Dave Haynie	      :)
(: (: (: (: (: (: (: (: (: (: (: (: (:) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
From: jerry@connection.prospect.com (Jerry Shekhel)
Subject: Re: IBM lamers at their worst - uiuc siggraph meeting
Organization: Molecular Simulations, Inc.
Date: Thu, 10 Sep 1992 22:14:28 GMT
X-Posted-From: connection.prospect.com
X-Posted-Through: sol.ctr.columbia.edu

gfm@hal.gnu.ai.mit.edu (George McBay) writes:
>>>Yep, that's right, Amiga is the only computer that can lay graphics
>>>onto video tape.
>>Bullshit.  My 1981 Atari 800 can do the same thing.
>
>Have you finally gone off the deep end, Jerry?  Or am I the crazy one?
>When did Atari (or a 3rd party) develope a genlocking device for the 800?
>The original poster was *not* talking about just taping output from an
>Amiga RF connected to a VCR....Almost anything can do that, if you use
>proper cables.  He was talking about things like Genlocks, which are
>fairly inexpensive devices that allow you to mix live action video
>with computer graphics, not all of one or the other.   This is used
>to titling, among other things.
>

I don't think this is what the guy was talking about, because it's common
knowldge that genlocks are available for computers other than the Amiga.
Therefore, I got the feeling that he was talking about native Amigas, without
any external hardware.  Hence my comment.
--
+-------------------+-----------------------+--------------------------------+
| Jerry J. Shekhel  | Molecular Simulations | Time just fades the pages      |
| Drummers do it... | Inc.  Waltham, MA USA | in my book of memories.        |
|    ... In rhythm! |     (617) 890-2888    |              -- Guns N' Roses  |
+-------------------+-----------------------+--------------------------------+
|           ...! [ princeton mit-eddie bu sunne ] !polygen!jerry             |
|                            jerry@polygen.com                               |
+----------------------------------------------------------------------------+
From: dtiberio@pdnfido.fidonet.org (David Tiberio)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
Subject: test
Date: 8 Sep 92 03:51:10 GMT
Distribution: na
Organization: The Source for Source Pub Access Unix

TEST test