HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: henigan@quando.quantum.de (Kevin Henigan)
Subject: Re: More chatter on electric vehicles ...
Keywords: electric school busses ?
Organization: Quantum Software GmbH, Dortmund, Germany
Date: Mon, 16 Nov 1992 14:47:43 GMT

In article <1992Nov13.081355.151@ncrcae.ColumbiaSC.NCR.COM> kwyatt@ccscola.Columbia.NCR.COM (Kershner Wyatt) writes:
>In article <1992Nov11.184055.7336@srg.srg.af.mil> akerson@deimos.af.mil (Pete Akerson - akerson%srg@uunet.uucp) writes:
>>  As a filthy black cloud farted out of the school bus ahead
>>of me on my way to work, I wondered 
>>"Why arent those things electric ?"
>>Think about it :
>>Very low mileage fixed routes.
>>Maximum speed need not be 55 mph.
>>Time to recharge in the middle of the day.
>>Huge vehicle size to carry big heavy (lead?) batteries.
>>and use an old gas buss for occaisional field trips.
>
>
>I have said the same things about mail trucks for years.  Torque, not speed
>needed.  Idle, idle, idle, flat to the floor, idle, ad nauseum.  I really had
>a tizzy when I found out that the official USPS truck in my neighborhood was
>a 6 cylinder...

In England the door to door milk delivery is done using electric floats. They
go from house to house, with a max speed of about 20Mph, ideal. The floats
have been in service for years.

>School buses electric?  Probably wouldn't provide the acceleration and speed
>the one driver obviously needs in my subdivision.

In a main German town they tried a pilot scheme to use Electric buses, they
were re-charged at modified bus stops that allowed connection to an overhead
electric cable, while the people got on and off. This meant the range was
increased or the no of batteries were less.

>Kershner Wyatt
>kwyatt@ccscola.ColumbiaSC.ncr.com


-- 
 Kevin Henigan. UUCP:     {backbone}!unido!quando!henigan OR henigan@quando.uucp
  Quantum GmbH  Bitnet:   henigan%quando@UNIDO(.bitnet)
    Dortmund    internet: henigan@quantum.de, or henigan@quando.quantum.de
    Germany     advert  : PEDIGREE - the only genealogy IIGS prog with a GUI
From: cir@festival.ed.ac.uk (C Revie)
Newsgroups: sci.energy
Subject: Re: Renewable energy from the sun
Date: 19 Nov 92 11:22:11 GMT

Sorry I don't think I am a Nuclearphobe.  

Secondly, to the person living Florida (apologies I can't remember your
name), point taken, however buildings can be designed (even for Florida)
which can be cool (or at least cooler than the outside ambient
temperature), without the need for air conditioning systems (or at least
minimise their use). Architects do not seem to have taken this on board.
Newsgroups: sci.energy,sci.environment,talk.environment
From: "barry ross" <barry.ross@canrem.com>
Subject: any info. on hydrogen
Reply-To: "barry ross" <barry.ross@canrem.com>
Organization: Canada Remote Systems
Distribution: sci
Date: 20 Nov 92 16:52:52 EST


You  may  wish to check with University of  Toronto's  mechanical 
engineering  department.   One of the  professors  did  extensive 
research  into this area many years back due to the excess  power 
generated  at night from the Ontario's atomic  energy  generating 
plants.  I am sure this information is relevant today.
---
  DeLuxe 1.12 #10554  I tried the rest but bought the best!!!!
--
Canada Remote Systems  - Toronto, Ontario
World's Largest PCBOARD System - 416-629-7000/629-7044
Newsgroups: sci.energy,sci.environment
From: dyrda@gn.ecn.purdue.edu (Richard Dyrda)
Subject: Greenpeace: Anti-US feelings
Followup-To: sci.energy
Organization: Purdue University Engineering Computer Network
Date: Tue, 17 Nov 92 16:18:57 GMT

 As with the current thread on Greenpeace's amnesia on Saddam's environmental
catastrophies, oh I forgot it was the US's fault because we were bombing
him at the time. I'd like to show some other environmental disasters that
Greenpeace seems to have forgotten.

 Yellow Rain usage in Afghanistan and SE Asia.
 RNS SSN Mike sinking in the N. Atlantic due to reactor fire.
 Eastern Europe, esp. Romania and Hungary and their garbage problems
 Daniel Ortega using chemical agents on Sandinista farms and "suspected" farms.

 It seems that Greenpeace only cares about Capitalistic countries' eco-
faults. The US and the free world spend well over $1 trillion dollars
on ours and the world's so-called ecological time bombs. I don't see any
other nations doing this, we are leading the race to help find some
remedies, however it seems Greenpeace doesn't appreciate it.

=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
Richard Dyrda                         | "I could have been home baking
School of Nuclear Engineering         |  cookies or something like that!" 
Idaho National Engineering Laboratory | "Nah, that's ok Hillary your 
c/o Purdue University                 |  husbands fat enough!!!!!!" 
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
Newsgroups: sci.energy,sci.environment,talk.environment
From: peterb@runx.oz.au (Peter Barker)
Subject: Re: Request: info on desalination and solar energy
Organization: RUNX Un*x Timeshare.  Sydney, Australia.
Date: Fri, 20 Nov 92 00:05:10 GMT

In article <gay.721725748@sfu.ca> gay@selkirk.sfu.ca (Ian D. Gay) writes:
>lnosek@ux4.cso.uiuc.edu (Luke Nosek) writes:
>
>
>> Yikes! are you sure that it would be feasable to desalinate water
>>with solar energy? I heard that they are making desalination plants in the
>>middle east now - and the reason that they can afford it is because oil is
>>dirt cheap over there - IT TAKES A LOT OF ENERGY TO REMOVE THE SALT FROM 
>>SEAWATER - more than the sun could provide unless there were some sort of 
>>technological miracle in solar energy.
>
>
>Why do you think rain is fresh water?

I believe the most economic way to make fresh water from seawater is to use
reverse osmosis. I don't have any details, but I have heard of suggestions
to use wind power (which is solar power) to operate the pumps needed
for reverse osmosis via a direct mecahanical link. Presumably a vertical
axis windmill would be easiest to couple into a pump at ground level.

-- 
Peter Barker               |  Internet   peterb@runxtsa.runx.oz.au
Pegranka Consultants P/L   | 
47 Howard St, Randwick     |  Telephone   +(612) 399 3225
NSW 2031    Australia      |
Newsgroups: sci.energy
From: akerson@deimos.af.mil (Pete Akerson - akerson%srg@uunet.uucp)
Subject: Re: RFD: sci.engr.power
Organization: Arinc Research Corp.
Date: Tue, 17 Nov 92 18:52:48 GMT


  The charter's sample topics do not seem to differ from
the content of sci.energy, except to broaden it :

>> - applications of the following to power engineering
>>	  - high performance computing
>>	  - distributed computing
>>	  - artificial intelligence
>>	  - numerical analysis and optimization
>>	  - control theory
>> - conference announcements/call for papers, job vacancies

  are thos topics going to generate any traffic ? - otherwise why bother ?
From: lars@emke.chalmers.se (Lars Holmblad)
Newsgroups: sci.energy,news.groups
Subject: Re: RFD: sci.engr.power
Date: 23 Nov 92 08:08:26 GMT
Followup-To: sci.energy,news.groups
Organization: Chalmers University of Technology

In article <1992Nov20.222129.17699@ncsu.edu>, hjnorris@eos.ncsu.edu (HENRY
JASON NORRIS) wrote:
> 
> 
> In article <1992Nov17.185248.78@srg.srg.af.mil>, akerson@deimos.af.mil (Pete Akerson - akerson%srg@uunet.uucp) writes:
> |> 
> |>   The charter's sample topics do not seem to differ from
> |> the content of sci.energy, except to broaden it :
> |> 
> |> >> - applications of the following to power engineering
> |> >>	  - high performance computing
> |> >>	  - distributed computing
> |> >>	  - artificial intelligence
> |> >>	  - numerical analysis and optimization
> |> >>	  - control theory
> |> >> - conference announcements/call for papers, job vacancies
> |> 
> |>   are thos topics going to generate any traffic ? - otherwise why bother ?
> |> 
> 
> ...These are more specialized areas that
> the 'layman' might not have an interest, but many professionals would.  So the 
> point may be that this group would be more for graduate/professional topics, 
> and not the general-sci.energy. ...

I totaly agree.

------------------------------------------------------------
lars@emke.chalmers.se (Lars Holmblad)
Department of Electrical Machines and Power Electronics
Chalmers University of Technology, S-412 96 Goteborg, SWEDEN
Phone: +46-(0)31 7721642    Fax: +46-(0)31 7721633
From: dt89csc@brunel.ac.uk (C S Codrington)
Newsgroups: sci.energy
Subject: halogen lamps for heating
Date: 16 Nov 92 12:08:23 GMT
Organization: Brunel University, Uxbridge, UK
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1 PL6]


Does anyone out there know anything about the use of Halogen lamps for heating food. I want to use a Halogen lamp in a kettle instead heating element. 

Is this feasible?

Is it cheaper?

Any help will be appreciated.

Please can you E-mail me on dt89csc@brunel.ac.uk.
Newsgroups: sci.energy
From: ledwards@leland.Stanford.EDU (Laurence James Edwards)
Subject: Re: More External-Combustion Info
Organization: DSG, Stanford University, CA 94305, USA
Date: Tue, 17 Nov 92 20:53:20 GMT

In article <1ebhauINNm1l@gap.caltech.edu>, carl@SOL1.GPS.CALTECH.EDU (Carl J Lydick) writes:
|> In article <1992Nov17.071642.22601@leland.Stanford.EDU>, ledwards@leland.Stanford.EDU (Laurence James Edwards) writes:
|> =In article <1992Nov16.215307.11973@bsu-ucs>, 01crmeyer@leo.bsuvc.bsu.edu (Craig Meyer) writes:
|> =|> 
|> =|>  
|> =|> [....]
|> =|> > It will get off from a cold start in thirty seconds.
|> =|> 
|> =|> But is that just too long?  With an IC, it's a fraction of that.
|> =|> What can make from quiker startup?  How about an electric heating element?  
|> =|> Good insulation? Very low water volume might me the key.  Wouldn't a low-volume,
|> =|> high-temperature, high-pressure system (with less water to boil) 
|> =|> start up faster?
|> =|> [....]
|> =
|> =Could always run off electric motor/battery for 1st 30 secs
|> 
|> How does the question of whether you're using electricity or fuel for heat
|> make any difference to the question of how long you get that part of the system
|> in which you produce steam up to operating temperature?
|> [....]

It doesn't ... I didn't say it did. I was just suggesting using an electric
motor to *move* the car (not generate heat) until the steam engine could take
over -- i.e. steam/electric hybrid. Since apparently the electric motor would
only be needed for 30 secs I would think the battery requirements would be
pretty small.

Larry Edwards
Newsgroups: sci.energy
From: sundermm@columbia.dsu.edu (MARC SUNDERMEYER)
Subject: Electric car question.
Organization: Dakota State University
Date: Sun, 22 Nov 1992 03:23:18 GMT

	I was wondering how many people would be willing to buy an electic 
car if it were powered by a nuclear reactor.  (The reactor would connected 
up in such a way that its contents wouldn't come out in the event of a 
crash.)
Newsgroups: sci.energy
From: ems@michael.apple.com (E. Michael Smith)
Subject: Re: More External-Combustion Info
Organization: Apple Computer Inc, Cupertino, CA
Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1992 22:31:57 GMT

In article <1ec2mqINNc33@gap.caltech.edu> carl@SOL1.GPS.CALTECH.EDU writes:
>In article <1992Nov17.205149.18798@aio.jsc.nasa.gov>, mancus@zaphod.JSC.NASA.GOV (Keith Mancus/MDSSC) writes:
>>> 3.  Given a closed system is there a better choice of working fluid than
>>> water (Something that wouldn't freeze, and could act as a lubricant.)
>> 
>>  For some applications, like these "commuter" cars that the electric crowd
>>is pushing, you might want to keep the loop open and eliminate the radiator/
>>condenser and associated weight.
>
>That's fine if you have LOTS of water to waste.  In case you haven't heard, the
>state that's pushing hardest for reduced emissions happens still to be in a
>major drought.

Oh, but this would be part of the solution!!  Don't you see?  The water
wouldn't be wasted, it would be injected into the air where it would
become part of the natural cycle of things and enhance the rainfall!
And if EVERYBODY drove a steamer, just think how much more rain that
could make !!!  ;-)

-- 

E. Michael Smith  ems@apple.COM

'Whatever you can do, or dream you can, begin it.  Boldness has
 genius, power and magic in it.'  -  Goethe

I am not responsible nor is anyone else.  Everything is disclaimed.
Newsgroups: sci.energy,talk.environment
From: sherwood@space.ualberta.ca (Sherwood Botsford)
Subject: Re: More External-Combustion Info
Organization: University Of Alberta, Edmonton Canada
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1 PL6]
Date: Wed, 18 Nov 1992 21:50:46 GMT

Carl J Lydick (carl@SOL1.GPS.CALTECH.EDU) wrote:
: In article <1992Nov17.205149.18798@aio.jsc.nasa.gov>, mancus@zaphod.JSC.NASA.GOV (Keith Mancus/MDSSC) writes:
: >> 3.  Given a closed system is there a better choice of working fluid than
: >> water (Something that wouldn't freeze, and could act as a lubricant.)
: > 
: >  For some applications, like these "commuter" cars that the electric crowd
: >is pushing, you might want to keep the loop open and eliminate the radiator/
: >condenser and associated weight.
: 
: That's fine if you have LOTS of water to waste.  In case you haven't heard, the
: state that's pushing hardest for reduced emissions happens still to be in a
: major drought.

Wait a minute.  Suppose the 10 mi/gal water is accurate.  That would mean that
water consumption would be on the order of three times gas consumption.  
Just how much gas do you guys burn in california compared to your water use?

Remember too that water dispersed into the air is likely to recondense as dew
or rain, unlike water that goes down the drain.

Finally a compromise may be valid.  Put a condenser on it, but don't worry 
about it if it is only partially successful.  E.g. On 70 degree days, it all
recovered, on 90 degree days, only 3/4 of it is recovered.
--
=> Sherwood Botsford                   sherwood@space.ualberta.ca <= 
=> University of Alberta         Lab Manager, Space Physics Group <=         
=> tel:403 492-3713                             fax: 403 492-4256 <=         
Newsgroups: sci.energy
From: dstock@hpqmoca.sqf.hp.com (David Stockton)
Subject: Info on the GM SE-101 Steam Car
Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1992 16:31:43 GMT
Organization: Hewlett-Packard LTD, South Queensferry, Scotland
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1.8 PL6]


    Turbines have power curves that give 100% rated power at 100% rated
revs and almost nothing below that speed. Small turbines, scaled for
the power levels needed in a passenger car will run at immense revs,
gearing will be extremely difficult. This is just as true of steam as it
is of gas turbines. At these speeds, even with small machinery, the
timeconstants do not suit traffic. Let's solve a different problem
instead:

   If magnets could be made to stand such centrifuging, modern fast
power rectifiers would make possible 100,000 RPM poly-phase alternators
for battery charging. Now a steam or gas turbine/electric compound is a
rather attractive proposition. Efficiency can be optimised for fixed
revs and for a bit less than the average power consumption. Electric
motors can give all the nice tricks wanted.. no gearchanges, real
regenerative breaking, high acceleration because of modest battery size.
If you can get a bit of free power from solar cells, or maybe a windmill
at home, you can run to partial discharge at the end of the day and
savefuel.

   Buy an electric car, throw most of the batteries away and fit an
attache case sized turbine generator to get a high efficiency compound.

  Could be quite handy to power implements and tools in the field, also 
during power cuts.......
Newsgroups: sci.energy
From: ledwards@leland.Stanford.EDU (Laurence James Edwards)
Subject: Re: More External-Combustion Info
Organization: DSG, Stanford University, CA 94305, USA
Date: Fri, 20 Nov 92 09:44:39 GMT

In article <10623@ncratl.AtlantaGA.NCR.COM>, mwilson@ncratl.AtlantaGA.NCR.COM (Mark Wilson) writes:
|> In <1992Nov17.205320.3112@leland.Stanford.EDU> ledwards@leland.Stanford.EDU (Laurence James Edwards) writes:
|> 
|> |>It doesn't ... I didn't say it did. I was just suggesting using an electric
|> |>motor to *move* the car (not generate heat) until the steam engine could take
|> |>over -- i.e. steam/electric hybrid. Since apparently the electric motor would
|> |>only be needed for 30 secs I would think the battery requirements would be
|> |>pretty small.
|> 
|> The battery may be small, but if you hope to get any speed during those
|> 30 seconds, the electric motor will have to be massive.  Then you will have
|> to haul around that dead weight after the steam engine gets up to heat.

Probably true. I guess it would make more sense just to try and retain the
heat overnight.

Larry Edwards
From: cir@festival.ed.ac.uk (C Revie)
Newsgroups: sci.energy
Subject: Re: Energy Demand
Date: 20 Nov 92 13:26:40 GMT


>So the question is:	

>How much energy is our refusal to adapt to our local climates costing us?

>Can we change this?  Should we try?

>-------

This is exactly my point. There is a cartoon that sums up this
arguement, by Gary Larson (all hail the Great Larson :-) ) of frog
pioneers in the desert, and one of them saying "We'll put the swamp here." 

Completely daft! A bit like putting a large city in the middle of the
desert and having swimming pools, green lawns, air conditioning etc to
make it bearable. 

Okay so Phoenix exits and you can't take it away. But to expect to live
a similar lifestyle as someone living in a temperate climate, is
unrealistic in the long term. Its a bit like trying to live like a
native of the Amazon Rainforest in the Artic circle! (Perhaps a bit
extreme, but the metaphor is still valid).

To alter the above question slightly, What would be the effect of
everybody in Florida taking a Siesta in the middle of the afternoon and then
working until slightly later in the evening, on energy demand.

On the plus side there would be less need for airconditioning in the
evening.

On the negative side lights would have turned on.

What other effects would there be?

The UK (and I believe now the rest of Western Europe) moves its clocks
back in the winter and forward in the Spring to make the most of the
available daylight.

Chris 					cir@uk.ac.ed.festival
 
Newsgroups: sci.energy,sci.environment,talk.environment
From: gary@ke4zv.uucp (Gary Coffman)
Subject: Re: Renewable Energy - solar
Reply-To: gary@ke4zv.UUCP (Gary Coffman)
Organization: Gannett Technologies Group
Date: Mon, 23 Nov 1992 16:56:50 GMT

In article <1992Nov21.223636.19543@adobe.com> pngai@adobe.com (Phil Ngai) writes:
>In article <1992Nov20.060352.20615@ke4zv.uucp> gary@ke4zv.UUCP (Gary Coffman) writes:
>>Ah, but unlike photovoltaic cells, or solar thermal collectors,
>>it costs us nothing, or nearly nothing to deploy organic solar
>>collectors. Converting that energy to readily usable combustibles
>>also costs us nothing. Our only cost is that of recovery, and that's
>>only a fraction of the cost of photovoltaics.
>
>I grew up on a farm and always thought it took lots of water (a scarce
>resource in the West), fertilizer, land, and labor to grow plants.
>The land, in particular, is subject to depletion when used intensively.
>This kind of thing is what makes gasohol from corn uneconomical.
>
>Did my pa taught me wrong?

You are correct that gasohol from corn is uneconomical, but I'm not
talking about farms, or machinery, or fertilizer. I'm talking about
giant ferns, grass, trees, and the dinosaurs that fed on them. You're
just too impatient for harvest.

Gary
From: howard.smith@spacebbs.com (Howard Smith)
Newsgroups: sci.energy
Subject: Re: nuclear waste
Date: 23 Nov 92 00:03:00 GMT
Reply-To: howard.smith@spacebbs.com (Howard Smith)
Organization: SPACE BBS - Menlo Park, CA - 10 Lines + 4gB - 415-323-4193

PD>You are comparing apples and oranges!  The average installed cost of
PD>existing, operating nuclear power plants is being compared against the
PD>projected cost of a prototype wind turbine.  If you compare the costs
PD>of installed wind turbines against installed nuclear plants, or
PD>against the best nuclear plants (rather than lumping the badly
PD>mismanaged ones in with the well managed ones) the comparison would
PD>not be nearly so favorable.

It's very difficult to sort out these costs because the different
accounting methods are themselves like comparing apples and oranges,
however, EPRI says these new machines are more than competitive and I
believe them.

Windpower has been suffering from similar, "lumpy" accounting practices.
Wind turbines and windfarms designed by accountants in the days of
investment tax credits in the late 70's and early 80's are still on the
books and have seriously compromised the reputation of windpower. But
windpower designed by engineers is now capable of making it on its own
with these new machines.

PD>> The installed cost of the new machine is about $1.3/Watt.
Nuclear PD>> installed costs generally run greater than $2/Watt.

PD>This conveniently ignores the capacity factors for the machines.  A
PD>well run nuclear plant can generate its rated capacity 80% of time.
PD>Wind turbines can average perhaps 20%.  Moreover, the downtime for the
PD>nuclear plants can in general be scheduled during seasons of low
PD>demand.

There are large parts of the country where these "nickel" wind turbines
can produce their rated power more than 80% of the time.

hhs
---
 . SLMR 2.1a . Press any key to continue or any other key to quit
From: stead@skadi.CSS.GOV (Richard Stead)
Newsgroups: sci.energy
Subject: Re: Notch another one up for the Greennazis
Date: 20 Nov 92 16:32:12 GMT

In article <JMC.92Nov20072352@SAIL.Stanford.EDU>, jmc@SAIL.Stanford.EDU (John McCarthy) writes:
> What is the source of your scenario about the microgram of Pu?  What
> does it assume about the chemical state?  Does it take into account
> eventual harm from the alpha radiation, or is it concerned with
> chemical poisoning?

Takes into account alpha damage.  Pu is a hazardous heavy metal, but you are
correct that its heavy metal danger is much less than a lot of toxics.
Chemical state is irrelevant to this scenario as long as a microgram is
ingested or inhaled.  This is because it is estimated to take less than
a nanogram of Pu to kill.  That's only 1/1000th of that microgram
that got ingested.  The body will not have much difficulty transporting
that fraction to the bones, regardles of chemical compostion (unreactive
oxide or whatever - a more reactive composition would simply mean that
more than enough would be incorporated into the bone to kill).  A microgram
of HCN is not sufficient to kill.

> What about Bernard Cohen's willingness to eat and breathe plutonium
> oxide?  To be elected President of the Health Physics Society, he
> certainly must be regarded by health physicists as an expert.

And then he'd be a highly regarded health physicist with terminal
leukemia.


--
Richard Stead
Center for Seismic Studies
Arlington, VA
stead@seismo.css.gov
Xref: sparky sci.energy:5444 sci.environment:12745
From: ken@sugra.uucp (Kenneth Ng)
Newsgroups: sci.energy,sci.environment
Subject: Re: opening of the first self-sufficient solar house, Press Release
Date: 15 Nov 92 18:18:44 GMT
Organization: Private Computer, Totowa, NJ

In article <1992Nov13.011151.12025@en.ecn.purdue.edu: ghg@en.ecn.purdue.edu (George Goble) writes:
:How about a large bank of Nickel-iron batteries instead.  Nothing toxic,
:and they don't self-destruct (sulphate out), if discharged too far.
:Some Nickel Irons are still running at windpower sites from the '30s.
:Let a Lead-Acid discharge, and set dead for a few days, and it is history.

Your a bit premature.  I've personally rehabilitated almost a dozen lead
acid batteries, mostly gell cell type.  One beauty came from a discarded
recorder (I presume something in a trash dumpster is discarded).  For the
first week it was almost an open circuit, about 3 mA with 45 volts going
into a 12 volt battery (The ps was current limited to 10 mA in that config).
Second week she recovered, taking 10, 50, 100 mA, then it shot up to 1.4 A,
my ps maxes out at 1.5A.  Charged it up and it worked like new for a couple
years, although I lost it, somewhere, when I moved.

-- 
Kenneth Ng
Please reply to ken@eies2.njit.edu for now.
Apple and AT&T lawsuits: Just say NO!