HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: msr7@po.CWRU.Edu (Mark S. Rzeszotarski)
Newsgroups: rec.food.sourdough
Subject: Too much sugar
Date: 20 Nov 1992 03:23:19 GMT
Organization: Case Western Reserve University, Cleveland, Ohio (USA)
NNTP-Posting-Host: thor.ins.cwru.edu


        Recently I indicated that too much sugar in bread
will inhibit the growth of yeast.  In E. Pyler's fine book
Baking Science and Technology (3rd Edition, Volume 1, Ch. 9,
Sosland Publishers, 1988) he writes: "At sucrose additions
of 8%, however, one must take into account the 5% increase
in fermentable solids that results from hydrate formation
during sucrose inversion.  At the resultant higher sugar 
level, a perceptible inhibitory effect on yeast activity 
may occur that will depress the rate of gas production."
        What this means is that the waste products due to
the yeast trying to convert all that sugar into dextrose
and levulose (more useful food for the yeasts) cause a 
reduction in yeast gas production.  It does not appear 
to be due to excess alcohol production, but rather is due 
to "toxic waste" that the yeast enzymes inadvertantly produce
in the process.
        BTW, the percentage values are based on volume of
flour, so in an 8 cups of flour batch of dough you would 
have to add about 2/3 of a cup of sugar before it got in
the way.  Usually, I use much less sugar than this amount
(except in some festive breads).
        Another interesting fact about sugar is that its
use in white bread production has risen from about 2% in
1920 to 7.25% in 1981.  Reasons for so much sugar include
marked improvements in loaf volume, crust color, flavor and
taste, keeping quality, etc. according to Pyler.  He also
notes that the large-scale production facilities require a
lot of sugar in order to maintain rapid fermentation during
makeup and final proofing.  (Make it quicker so its cheaper!)
        Pyler indicates that in sponge doughs (like our 
sourdoughs) 2% sugar is enough to maintain adequate gas 
production.  That's roughly one tablespoon of sugar for 
every three cups of flour.  Gee, that sounds a lot like 
a "World" bread recipe to me!
        No "wonder" kids like store-bought white bread!  It
satisfies their sweet tooth.
        
-- 
Mark S. Rzeszotarski, Ph.D. (msr7@po.cwru.edu) CWRU Biomed. Eng.
Medical Physicist, The Mt. Sinai Medical Center, Cleveland, OH, USA
"So long and thanks for all the Saccharomyces Exiguus!"
Newsgroups: rec.food.sourdough
From: tweaver@hobbes.kzoo.edu (Tim Weaver)
Subject: Re: Pretzel recipe
Organization: Kalamazoo College
Date: Mon, 23 Nov 1992 14:30:56 GMT


Tim Dudley <dudley.chi@xerox.com> writes:
>Someone recently asked for a sourdough pretzel recipe (sorry I can't
>remember who).  This one is from the Font of All Sourdough
>Knowledge book ("Adventures in San Francisco Sourdough Cooking"
>by Charles Wilford).  I haven't made them, but everything else I've
>made from this book has turned out really well.
>
>If anyone makes them, I guess we should get a Full Report...
>
>Tim
>
Thanx for the recipe.  I finally got around to trying it, and they're
great.  Crisp outside, soft inside, great with yellow mustard.

I didn't notice any characteristic sour taste, but I also had a very
short (8 hours) proofing time for the starter.  Even so I got great
tasting soft pretzels.  I'm thinking Christmas treats here.
-- 
|Timothy E. Weaver           | Kalamazoo College  |  (616) 337-7323        |
|Database Programmer/Analyst | 1200 Academy       | These are MY opinions! |
|email:  tweaver@kzoo.edu    | Kalamazoo MI 49006 | Mine!!  Mine!!  Mine!! |
+----------------------------+--------------------+------------------------+
From: jgostin@mal-s1.gatech.edu (Jill Gostin)
Newsgroups: rec.food.sourdough
Subject: FAQ's
Date: 16 Nov 92 14:19:20 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: Georgia Tech Res. Inst., Modeling & Analysis Lab

Could someone please forward me the FAQ's on how to make your own
starter and some basic recipes? Or, please tell me how to retrieve the
FAQ's on my own.

Thanks,
Jill
-- 
Jill Butterfield Gostin                EMAIL: jgostin@mal-s1.gatech.edu
Georgia Institute of Technology, GTRI Modeling and Analysis Lab
"Happiness is excitement that has found a settling down place..."
-E.L. Konigsburg, _From the Mixed-up Files of Mrs. Basil E. Frankweiler_
Newsgroups: rec.food.sourdough
From: julie@eddie.jpl.nasa.gov (Julie Kangas)
Subject: Re: Too much sugar
Organization: Jet Propulsion Laboratory, Pasadena, CA
Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1992 18:29:57 GMT

In article <BxzzMw.Gwz@usenet.ucs.indiana.edu> feldstei@silver.ucs.indiana.edu (Ronald F. Feldstein) writes:
>A common technique for making sugar available to the starter is the use of
>a small amount of "boiled" flour.  This is mentioned in Russian books on
>breadmaking, but I haven't noticed it mentioned much here.  The idea is
>to take 1 part flour and 1 1/2-2 parts water at around 150 F.  Pour the
>hot water over the flour in a container, stir, then wait until it cools to
>85-90 F.  Then, add it to the starter and it supposedly improves the taste,
>structure, and available sugar.  The "boiled" dough should not really be
>boiled.  It is known as "zavarka" in Russian.  Is there a standard English
>term?

Perhaps adding very hot water to the flour kills any foriegn yeast
that might invade your culture.  

I was originally going to say that I couldn't see how this method
increases the available sugar, but then I remembered the hows
and whys of mashing grains for beer making.  Basically, the barley
is coarsely ground, mixed with water, and held at a high temperature
in order to extract as many "fermentables" (yeastie food anyway)
as possible.  [Please note: I've only read about this kind
of brewing so I'm probably leaving bunches out].  These fermentables
get into water and are probably evenly distributed.  If you
don't heat the water, you probably get very little sugars
coming out of the flour and then only in the vicinity of
the flour particles.  I'm sure the yeast are happier when
they are living in a warm liquid environment surrounded
by nutrients and no nasty hard flour particles.  Making the yeast 
happy probably makes your bread better.  

BTW, where did you get the Russian books on breadmaking?
(And, what are their titles?).  I tried finding bread 
books in Russia and was told "nobody makes their own bread
anymore!"  I didn't even see any sourdough bread there :(

Julie
DISCLAIMER:  All opinions here belong to my cat and no one else
Newsgroups: rec.food.sourdough
From: feldstei@silver.ucs.indiana.edu (Ronald F. Feldstein)
Subject: Re: Too much sugar
Organization: Indiana University
Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1992 04:40:08 GMT

A common technique for making sugar available to the starter is the use of
a small amount of "boiled" flour.  This is mentioned in Russian books on
breadmaking, but I haven't noticed it mentioned much here.  The idea is
to take 1 part flour and 1 1/2-2 parts water at around 150 F.  Pour the
hot water over the flour in a container, stir, then wait until it cools to
85-90 F.  Then, add it to the starter and it supposedly improves the taste,
structure, and available sugar.  The "boiled" dough should not really be
boiled.  It is known as "zavarka" in Russian.  Is there a standard English
term?



Newsgroups: rec.food.sourdough
From: dadams@cray.com (David Adams)
Subject: Re: Too much sugar
Reply-To: dadams@cray.com
Organization: Cray Research, Inc.
Date: 23 Nov 92 15:08:02 CST

In article HHs@usenet.ucs.indiana.edu, delwiche@sunflower.bio.indiana.edu (Charles Delwiche) writes:
|In article <BxzzMw.Gwz@usenet.ucs.indiana.edu>
|feldstei@silver.ucs.indiana.edu (Ronald F. Feldstein) writes: 
|
|>A common technique for making sugar available to the starter is the
|>use of a small amount of "boiled" flour. [instructions for how to
|>make zavarka omitted] It is known as "zavarka" in Russian.  Is there a
|>standard English term?
|
|The traditional San Francisco sourdough is made without the addition
|of any sugar, although small quantities are often added to less than
|perfectly traditional breads.  There is some reading on the topic in
|_Cereal Chemistry_ 49: 86-91, 1972, although this isn't the most
|exciting article I have ever read.  One thing that they do is incubate
|flour and water at 75-80c in the absence of any yeast or bacteria.
|They saw a significant increase in the amount of sugar in the mixture,
|so *something* is definitely converting more complex carbohydrates
|into simpler carbohydrates (i.e. sugars).  They used rather long
|incubation times, on the order of 6h, but presumably something similar
|is going on in the Russian process.  To the best of my knowlege this
|method is not used in the San Francisco sourdough process.  I don't
|know about other sourdough processes.
|
|
|-- 
|-------
|Charles F. Delwiche			(812) 855-2549
|Dept. of Biology, Indiana University
|Bloomington, IN 47405


We may not know alot about many other processes, but I'd be willing to
hypothesise that the same thing is going on in all bread recipes which
do not call for sugar.  After all didn't you say that if the yeast could
produce amalyse to break starch into sugar it wouldn't be yeast?
---
--David C. Adams  Statistician  Cray Research Inc.  dadams@cray.com
___________________________________________________________________
       Old Sourdoughs never die.  They just ferment away.



Newsgroups: rec.food.sourdough
From: dixon@spot.Colorado.EDU (Life is real?)
Subject: Re: Could it be the water? 
Organization: University of Colorado, Boulder
Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1992 03:23:44 GMT

In article <1992Nov17.213717.4971@eagle.lerc.nasa.gov> dvandrei@desperado writes:
>	I recently purchased 2 culture from Sourdough International
>one the Saudi Arabian had almost a cheeszy taste but didn't rise very well.
>I used bottled spring water to activate it, a week later I pulled it out
>of the fridge and proofed it with regular tap water.  Now the cheeszy smell
>is gone and also most of the taste, but it did rise well.  I have 7 cultures
>in the fridge now in mason jars with caps on loosely.  Is it the water? 
>Or it the climate in the fridge mixing up my cultures? 
>  	
>-- 
>
>-----------------------------------------------
>Donald Van Drei      NASA Lewis Research Center
>dvandrei@desperado.lerc.nasa.gov (216) 433-9089 
>-----------------------------------------------

I doubt it's the water OR the climate in the fridge mixing up your cultures.
Starters recently revived from powder typically go through a number of
different stages before they stabilize...and you won't really know what their
characteristics are until they are stable.  For example, rising not well,
rising well, and smell can change.  Consistency and appearance also change.
You may notice the starter is not smooth (like pancake batter) and that it
has a gelatinous look/feel to it.  You may notice that even though it's only
been a day or two since you fed it, it's already producing hooch.  Once the
starter has stabilized, then it should have a more smooth look and feel to it,
the smell shouldn't vary much unless your treatment of it varies a LOT, and
it should always raise bread well, and have a nice frothy (foam) look to
it after 8 to 12 hours of proofing.  It also becomes much more abuse resistant
at this time.  Usually regular feedings combined with the refridgeration cycles
will cause it to all of a sudden 'bounce into life' and then it'll be quite
nice indefinately.  I recently let a starter go for 2 months without feeding
(as an experiment).  In a single treatment of the "1 Tablespoon Method" of
feeding, it came right back to life, but still exhibited some 'new starter'
characteristics.  In particular, it had that "gelatinous look" and hooch
formed on it within about a day after going back into the fridge.  These
signs and symptoms just indicate the lactobaccili/yeast relationship has
not stabilized, but the bubbles and the smell indicate both are present.
Therefore, I know that it's only a matter of a week or two and a few feedings
and the thing will be right back to where it was before the starvation period.
For more information, see the "starter doctor" FAQ at the ftp site that Dave
set up.

Later daze!
Brian D.

Newsgroups: rec.food.sourdough
From: sm@jyu.fi (Seismo Malm)
Subject: Re: Milk and Beer Bread
Followup-To: rec.food.sourdough
Organization: University of Jyvaskyla, Finland
Date: Mon, 16 Nov 1992 10:39:16 GMT

In article <1992Nov15.215338.10140@vax.oxford.ac.uk> emetzger@vax.oxford.ac.uk writes:
>Two comments:
>
>   Thereis been some mention of adding milk to starters, anbd this
>gets me a little worried. Whenever I put milk into a bread, I always
>scald it, because I have been told (and experience hasborn eit out
>every time) that something in unscalded milk kills the culture. Do
>other people find this to be so?
>
>   A second comment: if I can be permitted to combine two topics,
>I've found that making bread with dark beer, heated uhntil it gets
>smelly, a good 'substitute' (well, not really a substitute) for
>sourdough bread when you don;'t have a culture handy.
>
>Ernie metzger
>emetzger@uk.ac.ox.vax

Non-pasteuriced milk has got it's own lactobasilli, that may replace
original lactobasilli in your starter.

seismo





-- 
-------
   sm@tukki.jyu.fi  (seismo malm)

Newsgroups: rec.food.sourdough
From: dadams@cray.com (David Adams)
Subject: Re: Milk and Beer Bread
Reply-To: dadams@cray.com
Organization: Cray Research, Inc.
Date: 16 Nov 92 14:20:25 CST

In article 10140@vax.oxford.ac.uk, emetzger@vax.oxford.ac.uk () writes:
|Two comments:
|
|   Thereis been some mention of adding milk to starters, anbd this
|gets me a little worried. Whenever I put milk into a bread, I always
|scald it, because I have been told (and experience hasborn eit out
|every time) that something in unscalded milk kills the culture. Do
|other people find this to be so?


I have never had any trouble, but then store bought milk in America comes
pasteurized.  


---
--David C. Adams  Statistician  Cray Research Inc.  dadams@cray.com
___________________________________________________________________
       Old Sourdoughs never die.  They just ferment away.



Newsgroups: rec.pets,rec.pets.cats,rec.pets.dogs,general
From: shodapp@eos.ncsu.edu (SUSAN  HODAPP)
Subject: **Attention Purdue**
Originator: shodapp@c00533-106ps.eos.ncsu.edu
Reply-To: shodapp@eos.ncsu.edu (SUSAN  HODAPP)
Organization: North Carolina State University, Project Eos
Date: Mon, 23 Nov 1992 17:53:58 GMT


Please help us, our ferret is lost.  Last night, around
11pm, our little sable ferret, Beepers, ran out an open
door.  We are doing all that we know to do in order to
find her, and hopefully, if you live in the West Lafayette,
Indiana area and see her, you will call or e-mail us 
with the information.

Beepers characteristics :
	female sable ferret (has the colorings of a raccoon)
	small, weighs 1.8 pounds
	wearing a flourescent green color with bell
	very tame, does not bite
	scares easily of loud noises (cars) so she may be hiding
	loves raisans and pizza :)
	will come when her name is called

Being in North Carolina until Wednesday, this is all that
I can think of doing to help find her.  Her father, Darel,
has been searching all night for her.  If you happen to 
see her or hear any information about her, please call
or e-mail Darel Benysh at (317) 743-0914 or at
benysh@rainbow.ecn.purdue.edu

Thanks for all your help and time,
Susan and Darel
Newsgroups: rec.pets
From: dbriggs@zia.aoc.nrao.edu (Daniel Briggs)
Subject: Armadillos
Organization: National Radio Astronomy Observatory, Socorro NM
Date: Sat, 21 Nov 92 01:39:44 GMT

There was a cute story in the local paper today about Armadillos.  It got
me to wondering: do they make reasonable pets?  Not that I'm likely to run
out and try one, it doesn't seem all that silly an idea.  Certainly they're
pretty cute.  How about the temperament?  Sleeping habits?  I don't think
of them as communal animals, but I don't know that to be true.  Anyone had
any experience with them?

-- 
| Daniel Briggs  (dbriggs@nrao.edu)                      |  USPA B-14993
| New Mexico Tech / National Radio Astronomy Observatory |      DoD #387
| P.O. Box O / Socorro, NM 87801   (505) 835-7391        | 
Support the League for Programming Freedom   (info from lpf@uunet.uu.net)
Newsgroups: rec.pets
From: hartman@nori.cis.udel.edu (Nancy Hartman)
Subject: Re: Help! I am desperite
Organization: University of Delaware, Newark
Date: Tue, 17 Nov 1992 20:43:22 GMT

In article <089SB8S4@cc.swarthmore.edu> sstockw1@cc.swarthmore.edu (Sarah Stockwell) writes:

>it dry, and release the rat into its cage.  Make sure you have cleaned the
>cage, disposing of _all_ bedding (anything that isn't metal, actually) in
>between removing the rat for the bath and putting the rat back.  Repeat
>(including cage cleaning) for three days running.  


I would suggest washing the cage/etc. with clorox.  Bleach is a great
disenfectant, and it leaves no residue when rinsed, so it is very
safe and effective for these things.  

- Nancy

-- 
Nancy Hartman					CIS graduate student
hartman@udel.edu				U. of Delaware
        President and founder, Delaware Valley Ferret Club
                      Owner of Percy & Bree
From: wd5j@vax5.cit.cornell.edu
Newsgroups: rec.pets
Subject: Darwin was neutered!
Date: 18 Nov 92 15:36:21 EST
Distribution: rec
Organization: Cornell University

There's been a dearth of rabbit postings so...here's another Darwin
update.  He was neutered on Oct. 25th or so, on short notice (the
surgery service had an opening).  I miscalculated his post-anesthetic
abilities and left his Elizabethan collar off overnight, so he chewed
out all his sutures and ended up with an open wound that had to granulate
in (heal by filling in, rather than a quicker healing by sutured surfaces).
For a week I kept the e-collar on him because he literally tore at himself
whenever he could.  He got it off one day and did quite a number on it--
finally I began to leave off the collar because it was changing him into
an irritable, hand-shy bun.  It seemed that every time I checked on him, I
had to turn him over to see the wound, and his exercise was restricted.
Ugh, it was not a fun two weeks.


Newsgroups: rec.pets
From: adwright@iastate.edu ()
Subject: trap door spiders
Organization: Iowa State University, Ames IA
Date: Tue, 17 Nov 1992 20:24:15 GMT

Is any pet store selling trap door spiders as pets? I had some once when i
lived in Africa (found them in my garden). I put them in an aquarium filled 
with dirt. They would tend to build the tunnels next to the glass so they
were fairly visible. It was sort of fun to watch them crawl up the tunnel, open
the door and pull in whatever insect happened to walk across the door. 
I miss those guys! Are they indigenous to Africa alone or can they be found in
North America too? They make a nice, low maintenance pet and could probably
work well in a terrarium too. Any info appreciated.
Al
From: chelsea@oneb2.almanac.bc.ca
Newsgroups: rec.pets
Subject: Help! I am desperite
Date: 15 Nov 92 20:22:32 GMT
Organization: The Old Coot's (Spare) Almanac

Hi every body!
   Some of you might remember The post I made here a while ago,about my rat,
Mickey and his scabs.  They have not gotten better.
  For any one who does not know what I am talking about,my pet rat Mickey
has got little scabs all over him.  The vet said he was not getting enough
protien in his diet and she gave me some rat pellets for him.  The scabs went 
away for about 2 weeks,but now they are back...and worse.  I think it is not a
protien thing because he gets what the vet said,but I can not be sure.  I have
changed his kind of bedding from ceder shavings,to pine.  He gets fresh water
every day with mineral drops in it.  He gets let out of his cage wich is
cleaned every day or every 2ned day,for about 2 hours,to an hour and a half,
and he sits on my shoulder and I cuddle him every day.
   I do not know what to do anymore, so ANY ideas are welcome.
                                        ===
 please let me know of ANY ideas you have, no matter how silly.
 As I said,I AM DESPERATE!



                       CHELSEA+MICKEY
/s


chelsea@oneb2.almanac.bc.ca (Chelsea Graham)
                  The Old Coot's Almanac
               Vancouver Island, British Columbia, Canada
                    Courtesy the old coot hisse'f!
Newsgroups: rec.pets
From: christin@cae.wisc.edu (Christine Haas)
Subject: Sick ferret??
Organization: U of Wisconsin-Madison College of Engineering
Date: 17 Nov 92 20:09:39 CST

Hi,

I have a ferret who is almost 3 years old.  

Aside from the fact that she eats everything in sight,
(sweaters, socks, blankets, etc.) I am wondering about
her health.  Whenever she eats these things I give her
a laxative, and she always seems to feel much better  
afterwards (you think she'd figure out that eating all
this junk makes her sick...).

Anyway, about 2 weeks ago, I noticed that the hair on her
tail, which is normally long and pointed at the end (like
most ferrets) was suddenly cut off, like instead of being
pointed, it was now abrubly straight, giving the appearance
of a square-ended tail.  It is possible that it somehow got
cut off, but it doesn't seem to be growing back into the full
pointed shape it normally is in.  (I have also been noticing 
that the hair on her tail has been getting thinner for 
sometime).  She has also seemed a bit lethargic for sometime
now.  She has been eating, drinking, and pooping regularly.

At one time, someone mentioned a common ailment of ferrets,
characterized by their age and loss of hair on their tails.
 
Do any of you have any ideas about this??

Thanks.

Chris.

Please email me:  christin@cae.wisc.edu
-- 


%-%-%-%-%-%-%-%-%-%-%-%-%-%-%-%-%-%-%-%-%-%-%-%-%-%-%-%-%-%

Newsgroups: rec.pets
From: tj@kona.cs.ucla.edu (Tom Johnson)
Subject: Pigs in LA?
Organization: UCLA, Computer Science Department
Distribution: ca
Date: Tue, 24 Nov 92 00:50:49 GMT

A co-worker just told me that he had heard on the news (a couple of
weeks ago) that the Vietnamese Pot-Bellied pig was now legal in 
residential areas of the city of Los Angeles.  I've called the local
animal shelter, but if the law isn't in their (who-knows-how-old)
regulation books, they won't look any further.  Is there anyone out
there who heard some more details?  Does anyone know of any higher-ups
in LA Animal regulations I could call?  Any ideas? 

Tom
-- 
Tom Johnson             "They say Confucious does his crossword with a pen."
tj@cs.ucla.edu                               -Tori Amos