HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: sgj@po.CWRU.Edu (Sri G. Junus)
Newsgroups: alt.culture.indonesia
Subject: Re: MY IDEA (PLEASE CONSIDER)
Date: 12 Nov 1992 06:16:35 GMT
Organization: Case Western Reserve University, Cleveland, Ohio (USA)
NNTP-Posting-Host: thor.ins.cwru.edu


In a previous article, wirawa_i@cs.uwa.oz.au (RAWRITE) says:

> Hi Buddy,
>  I notice since this newsgroup was formed, the contents were mainly arguments
>  about the right and wrong of East Timor, so I have an idea why not we rename
>  this 'alt.culture.indonesia' to 'alt.argument.east.timor' so this would save
>  people from reading all the 'very boring' discussions.
>                               ^^^^^^^^^^^
> Cheers,
> RW

I concur big time. :)  


-- 

"Anything that thinks logically can be fooled by something else that
thinks at least as logically as it does." -- _Mostly Harmless_
From: pires@vxcrna.cern.ch (Rui)
Newsgroups: alt.culture.indonesia
Subject: Re: newgroup alt.culture.indonesia
Date: 6 Nov 92 00:20:00 GMT
Organization: European Organization for Nuclear Research, CERN
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41

In article <1992Nov4.225002.17692@oz.plymouth.edu>, m_lehoul@oz.plymouth.edu (Michael L. Le Houllier) writes...
>In article <1992Oct31.000659.2420@random.ccs.northeastern.edu> okidz@ccs.northeastern.edu (Oki D Zakaria) writes:
>>In article <30OCT199201130141@vxcrna.cern.ch> pires@vxcrna.cern.ch  writes:
>>>Caro Rui,
>>> 
>>> [...]
>>
>This looks like Portugese to me.  Please keep this language off this
>newsgroup, it doesn't belong.  Keep it to English, Indonesian and I
>can also see Dutch but NOT Portugese.  However, for the sake of the
>majority of readers, English is prefered.
> 
>God bless,
> 
>Michael
> 

That was not intended to appear on a.c.i (it was a reply not a follow-up).
I already posted my excuses for that.  I am repeating just in case you 
didn't receive that.

---Rui
Newsgroups: alt.culture.indonesia
From: tmcfarla@fraser.sfu.ca (Tara McFarlane)
Subject: Need someone to talk about Indo. and language, culture
Organization: Simon Fraser University, Burnaby, B.C., Canada
Distribution: indonesia
Date: Tue, 10 Nov 1992 03:13:42 GMT


I have recently applied to an Indonesian Scholarship program which enables a 
university student to travel to Indonesia, and study there for one year.
the studetn has many topics of study to choose from, and I , if chosen, would
choose an Indonesian language. I would like to know which are the easier to
learn. I also have a whole bunch of questions...

If you would like to excahnge letters with me further please e-mail me
at:
tmcfarla@sfu.ca

Thanks!
Tara McFarlane

Newsgroups: alt.culture.indonesia
From: rahardj@ccu.umanitoba.ca (Budi Rahardjo)
Subject: Facts #0
Originator: rahardj@ccu.umanitoba.ca
Keywords: facts
Organization: University of Manitoba, Winnipeg, Canada
Date: Thu, 5 Nov 1992 16:15:34 GMT

I have posted several articles that I have obtained from
The Indonesian Embassy (Ottawa, Canada). There's another
article (East Timor: Building for the Future), but it's
a bit thick. I'll scan / re-type it (no promisses).
I also lost an article on what happened on November 12, 91.
(Somebody faxed it to the International Centre at the University).
If I can find it (or if somebody has a copy of it), I'll scan/retype
the article and post it here.

I hope they can answer some questions.

-- budi
-- 
Budi Rahardjo <Budi_Rahardjo@UManitoba.Ca>
Unix Support - Computer Services - University of Manitoba
Newsgroups: alt.culture.indonesia
From: prastowo@qucis.queensu.ca (Bambang Nurcahyo Prastowo)
Subject: Re: Spelling and pronunciation
Organization: Computing & Information Science, Queen's University at Kingston
Date: Thu, 5 Nov 1992 16:39:47 GMT

In article <9211051556.AA00826@share> share!kst@aloft.att.com writes:
>Actually the sound of 't' in Indonesian does not have
>an equivalence in English.  It is the non-explosive
>version of English 't'.
>
When spelling my last name "Prastowo", with my deep (medok) Javanese accent
of course, they often get it "Brasdowo". I learned that I can savely
pronounce t as the Balinese t.

Salam,
Bambang Prastowo
From: share!kst@aloft.att.com
Newsgroups: alt.culture.indonesia
Subject: Re: Spelling and pronunciation
Date: 5 Nov 1992 10:01:03 -0600
Organization: UTexas Mail-to-News Gateway
NNTP-Posting-Host: cs.utexas.edu

Actually the sound of 't' in Indonesian does not have
an equivalence in English.  It is the non-explosive
version of English 't'.

The oldest Indonesian spelling system was the one used
during the Dutch era.  A few years after independence
the spelling system was revised,  with the most notable
change of the double consonant 'oe' into 'u'.  The
revised system was known as 'ejaan Soewandi' after
the name of the Minister of Education and Culture then.

In 1972 a new spelling system was announced.  Some of
the features include using fewer characters and resemblance
to the widely used phonetic systems.  The new standard was
the result of a joint effort with the Malaysian government.
It was called EYD (Ejaan Yang Disempurnakan).  In the same
time frame,  the Malaysians also abandoned their existing
spelling system and adopted EYD.  It was probably the reason
why the new system was not named after Mashuri,  the Minister
of Education and Culture at that time.

The most significant change from the Soewandi system
to EYD is the following six consonants:  j->y, dj->j,
nj->ny, tj->c, ch->kh, and sj->sy.  Some grammatical
rule changes also came along with EYD,  for example
the difference between using 'di' as a preposition
(e.g., di rumah) and as a passive verb prefix (e.g.,
dipukul).

--
Khe-Sing The
AT&T Bell Laboratories
<kst@mhcnet.att.com>
From: p91083sw@tom.ai.kyutech.ac.jp (Wahyo Sindhu)
Newsgroups: alt.culture.indonesia
Subject: Re: Indonesian Rest.
Date: 9 Nov 92 03:10:27 GMT
Organization: Kyushu Institute of Technology, Iizuka, JAPAN.



>I only received one response from my posting about Indonesian rest in USA and
>world (except Indonesia) :)

Restaurant Indonesia di Tokyo

ada 3 restaurant Indonesia di Tokyo yg saya ketahui, yakni Indonesia Raya,
Bengawan solo dan RM Sederhana. dibawah ini alamat Indonesia Raya di Tokyo:
        Shinbashi(pusat): Shinbashi Rengadoori ph.03-3433-7005
                                                  03-0431-6851
         cabang Shinjuku: Kabukichou Ichibangai Iriguchi Suzuya Bld, 5th floor
                               ph. 03-3200-4835
          cabang Ginza  : Chuo-ku Ginzanishi 7-8
                               ph. 03-3572-7499

Bagi yg mau kerja parttime di Shinbashi, silakan hubungi manager Maekawa-san.
th lalu saya pernah kerja disana--kerja rodi :-<

wassalam,
sindhu kusumojati
Newsgroups: alt.culture.indonesia
From: rahardj@ccu.umanitoba.ca (Budi Rahardjo)
Subject: Facts #1
Originator: rahardj@ccu.umanitoba.ca
Keywords: timor facts
Organization: University of Manitoba, Winnipeg, Canada
Date: Thu, 5 Nov 1992 16:01:11 GMT


FACTS ON THE QUESTION OF EAST TIMOR

The actions taken in connection with then November 12, 1992 incident in Dili
----------------------------------------------------------------------------

	The tragic outcome of the demonstration that occured in Dili, East Timore,
on the 12 November 1991 was deeply regrettable, as was immediately and
repeatedly expressed by the Indonesian Government at the highest levels. It was
a tragic incident and clearly not an act ordered by or reflecting the policy of
the Government or the Armed Forces. Nothing can be done to alter the facts of 
the incident: The test is how the Indonesian Government and people
responded - by acting firmly and swiftly to get the facts, by establishing a
National Commitee of Inquiry and a Military Council of Honour, and by initiating
a due legal process, subjecting all those held accountable for having violated 
the law, whether on the part of the demonstrator or on the part of the security
personnel, to trial by the appropriate court of justice.

(East Timor: Building for the Future, 
published by the Department of Foreign Affairs,
Republic of Indonesia, July 1992).


The National Commission of Inquiry
----------------------------------
	The 12 November 1991 demonstration in Dili showed elements of premediatated
provocation by a group of anti integrationist/Fretilin S.D.P. and was not an
orderly and peaceful procession dedicated to commemorate the death of Sebastian
Gomez. As the tense atmosphere reached boiling point, started by
the stabbing of an Armed Forces officer and the wounding of a private, and
aggravated by the provocative belligerence and aggresive attitude assumed by
the crowd which was perceived by the security personnel as posing a threat to
their arms and their safety, a spontaneous reaction took place among the 
security personnel to defend themselves, without command, resulting in 
excessive shooting at the demonstrators, causing death and wounded. 
The Commission feels that there are sufficiently strong grounds to conclude 
that the death casualties totalled about 40 while the wounded exceeded 91.

(Final Report of the National Commision of Inquiry, Jakarta January 1992).
-- 
Budi Rahardjo <Budi_Rahardjo@UManitoba.Ca>
Unix Support - Computer Services - University of Manitoba
Newsgroups: alt.culture.indonesia
From: dewanto@cae.wisc.edu (Gaston Dewanto)
Subject: Re: Grad schools...
Organization: U of Wisconsin-Madison College of Engineering
Date: 4 Nov 92 20:12:42 CST

In article <1992Nov4.230006.18535@oz.plymouth.edu> m_lehoul@oz.plymouth.edu (Michael L. Le Houllier) writes:
>Hello, I'm a junior undergraduate student of Political Science.  I'm
>interested in a grad school to study International Relations.  I would
>like to concentrate on Asian affairs (esp. Indonesia and the rest of
>SE Asia).  I would also like to find a school where I can study the
>Indonesian language.  If anyone out there has any recommendations in
>the USA or Canada for me to look at, I'd very much appreciate it.
>
>Thanks and God bless,
>
>Michael
>
In the University of Wisconsin, we have South East Asian studies and you 
can learn some languages like Indonesian, Thai and Tagalog (Philipine).
I also heard that Cornell University, Ithaca, NY, had very good a program
for Indonesia.
For more information about the program in UW-Madison, you can try this
address:

   R. Anderson Sutton
   Center for Southeast Asian Studies
   4115 Helen C. White
   600 North Park Street
   Madison, Wisconsin 53706
   Tel. (608)263-1755

Good luck.
Newsgroups: alt.culture.indonesia
From: rgc@eagle.inesc.pt (Rui Gustavo Crespo)
Subject: Re: to all Portuguese
Organization: INESC
Date: Thu, 5 Nov 1992 07:59:48 GMT

In article <1992Nov4.003837.44377@kuhub.cc.ukans.edu>, andri@kuhub.cc.ukans.edu writes:
|> to all Portuguese,
|> we, Indonesian, don't colonize East Timor as you did.
|> Portuguese left this colony while 99% of its people were ILLITERATE.
|> Why? Because they are not white(what else the reason?) They are not
|> your relatives or brothers, so you didn't care about them.
|> Under our protection, open your eyes, 90% of the people are able to
|> read and write. We built clinic in EVERY village. We provides money
|> annually to churches. We should have put all Portuegese officials into
|> trial 17 years ago.

If life is so great, as you say, in East Timor under Indonesia "protection",
could you kindly tell me why the indonesian government is affraid to conduct a
referendum there?

That, I believe, could be the best trial to compare the portuguese colonization
and your "protection".

Now let me ask you another question. Imagine that some neighbour power invades
Indonesia and builds clinics, schools and so on. But you would have to pay this
at a price. More exactly, 1/3 of your people would be killed (that's what
happened in East Timor), in your case 180/3 million = aprox 60 million!

Would you still accept the invasion? Or would you campaign for a peaceful
solution (such as free elections)? The previous paragraph could, perhaps, make
you open your eyes for the brutality of the indonesian army.
I agree that economic development is very important, but I cannot accept the
price that indonesia army as collected in East Timor in the last 17 years...

All the best...

---Crespo
==============================================================================
|| .-. .-  .- || Rui Gustavo Crespo                                         ||
|| |_| |_  |  || INESC, Software Engineering Group                          ||
|| | \ |_| |_ || R. Alves Redol 9, Apart 10105, 1017 Lisboa Codex, Portugal ||
|| ~~~~~~~~~~ || Phone: +351 1 3100 204      E-mail: rgc@eniac.inesc.pt     ||
==============================================================================
Newsgroups: alt.culture.indonesia
From: anto@donau.et.tudelft.nl (Anto Daryanto)
Subject: Re: Indonesian Rest. in Washington D.C.
Organization: Delft University of Technology, Dept. of Electrical Engineering
Date: Wed, 11 Nov 1992 13:19:08 GMT

>Sorry, if this is not appropriate, but I do know a good Restaurant (well, it
[stuff deleted]				     ^^^^

Sorry, typo....


Anto

--
Delft University of Technology,		|
Faculty of Electrical Engineering,    	| **********************************
Telecommunication- and Traffic-		|   **  Happy user of OS/2 2.0  **
Control Systems Group			| **********************************
					|
E-Mail: a.daryanto@dutetvd.et.tudelft.nl
From: 2huxvalved@kuhub.cc.ukans.edu
Newsgroups: alt.culture.indonesia
Subject: <None>
Date: 9 Nov 92 21:00:46 CST
Organization: University of Kansas Academic Computing Services



    Folks, tomorrow it's the time to remember one of the most
bloodiest wars in The Pacific, 10 November battle. As we know,
tens of thousands PEJUANG (heroes) killed in the battle that was
started by tearing off the blue of the Dutch flag. So, at this 
occasion, I post a nostalgic song "JEMBATAN MERAH". 

    This song is about a woman whose lover was killed in the battle.


                      JEMBATAN  MERAH

     
               Jembatan Merah
               Sungguh gagah
               Berpagar gedung indah
               Sepanjang hari
               Yang melintasi silih berganti
                  
               Mengenang susah hati patah
               Ingat jaman berpisah
               Kekasih pergi
               Sehingga kini belum kembali
             
               Biar jembatan merah
               Andainya patah aku pun bersumpah
               Akan kunanti dia disini
               Bertemu lagi    



Would anyone (not the P) post the brief history of the battle ?


Sridana W (Mr. Bagong)
From: crista@sun3140f.ccs.northeastern.edu (Cristina Isabel Videira Lopes)
Newsgroups: alt.culture.indonesia
Subject: Re: S Y N D R O M E
Date: 9 Nov 92 18:37:31 GMT
Organization: College of Computer Science, Northeastern University


In article <1992Nov9.104100.44546@kuhub.cc.ukans.edu> 2huxvalved@kuhub.cc.ukans.edu writes:

			  POST POWER SYNDROME

      Once, it was one of the m i g _ _ i e s t country in the world and
   now ....one of the p o _ _ e s t country in Europe.
      Any fellow Indonesians studying psychology/psychiatry ? You may
   help. 
   regards, 
   Bagong.

This kind of comment must come from a 10-year-old child after reading
the History of Portugal in a indonesian-Mickey-Mouse style.

Regard yourself,
-Crista
--
+-------------------------------------+-------------------------+
| Cristina Videira Lopes                      | Northeastern U. |
| E-mail: crista@dworkin.ccs.northeastern.edu | CCS             |
| Phone:  +1 617 497-8216                     | Boston, MA  USA |
+-------------------------------------+-------------------------+
From: okidz@ccs.northeastern.edu (Oki D Zakaria)
Newsgroups: alt.culture.indonesia
Subject: Re: newgroup alt.culture.indonesia
Date: 5 Nov 92 23:30:42 GMT
Organization: Northeastern University, CCS Dept.

In article <1992Nov4.225002.17692@oz.plymouth.edu> m_lehoul@oz.plymouth.edu (Michael L. Le Houllier) writes:

>This looks like Portugese to me.  Please keep this language off this
>newsgroup, it doesn't belong.  Keep it to English, Indonesian and I
>can also see Dutch but NOT Portugese.  However, for the sake of the
>majority of readers, English is prefered.
>
The poster said that it was intended for a reply. Well, assuming
that he was using rn, 'r' and 'f' are quite close on the keyboard.

>God bless,
>
>Michael
>
>
Oki
okidz@dworkin.ccs.northeastern.edu
From: slkqz@cc.usu.edu
Newsgroups: alt.culture.indonesia
Subject: Sekedar Himbauan
Date: 5 Nov 92 02:25:42 MDT
Organization: Utah State University


Kepada Yth:
Warga Negara Indonesia yang memantau alt.cul.indonesia

Merdeka !

Sudah saatnya diskusi masalah Timtim hilangkan dari newsgroup ini
atau newsgroups lainnya (jika anda bisa) karena sumber daya
(pikiran dan waktu) terbuang percuma. Saya percaya banyak teman-teman
yang memantau newsgroups ini ingin mempertahankan Negara RI tercinta.
Semakin diladeni, mereka menjadi titik perhatian kita semu. Ini yang
mereka inginkan (maksud saya mereka  yang menayangkan semua berita
negatip tentang Indonesia termasuk berita timtim).

Didalam newsgroups ini sebaiknya kita yang pegang kendalinya.
Jika ada berita negatip terhadap Indonesia.... cukup di jawab
satu kali....Apakah lawan diskusinya salah tangkap/paham
terserah dia. 

Jika ada yang ingin belajar bahasa atau sejarah Indonesia....
tentunya banyak rekan-rekan disini yang bisa memberikan pelajaran
(mengajar) secara cuma-cuma. Saya menemui banyak orang asing
(terutama orang Amerika) tidak tahu letak Indonesia secara 
Geografis. Sebagai orang Indonesia yang mengenyam pendidikan
di Indonesia, saya mempunyai pengetahuan yang relatip baik
dalam geografi, sejarah, agama dibandingkan orang yang seumur
dan sependidikan di Amerika Serikat.

Ada baiknya juga posting di newsgroup ini dilakukan dalam
bahasa Indonesia. Saya memantau beberapa newsgroup yang
menggunakan bahasa BUKAN Inggris. 
Alasan saya....supaya mereka (non-indonesibelajar bahasa
Indonesia. Inikan salah satu usaha kalau memang mereka ingin
tahu adat-istiadat orang Indonesia.

Wah......ini hanya sekedar himbauan.....untuk pendayagunaan
sumber tenaga yang optimal.

Salam hangat, Donny

Newsgroups: alt.culture.indonesia
From: lms@rle-vlsi.mit.edu (Luis Miguel Silveira)
Subject: Re: Re:Re:Re:View from Timorese Resistance
Organization: Research Laboratory of Electronics, Massachusetts Institute of
	Technology
Date: Tue, 10 Nov 1992 04:50:14 GMT



   In article <1992Nov9.070746.44540@kuhub.cc.ukans.edu>
   andri@kuhub.cc.ukans.edu writes:

   Dear Mr.Silveira,
   I think if we perform a referendum right now in East Timor, 
   there are two possibilities : (1) complete independence, (2) still
   under Indonesian rule.
   I actually don't know which one will come. But I don't think we are
   afraid of the result.

I do not think you have reason to be affraid.  And yes, I do believe
the two possibilities you mention would be the most likely candidates
for a "solution".

   We are concern about further consequences in our
   own territories if we do it now. Indonesia consists of more than 300
   ethnic groups, and our 27 provinces were created mainly based on
   ethnic preferences (including East Timor), if we give independence to
   one we have to give it to others.

Why?  Do some provinces in Indonesia also hope for independence?  And
they are also being forced into submission (I am genuinely asking)?

I cannot quite understand why you do not perform the referendum in
East Timor given that you do not feel affraid of the result.  Does
this mean you are confident the result would be favorable to joining
Indonesia?  If so, then I see even less reason for not holding the
referendum.

If on the other hand the result would be favorable to independence
what do you suggest should be done?

Best regards,

-Miguel






--
=============================================================================
Luis Miguel Silveira                            e-mail : lms@rle-vlsi.mit.edu
=============================================================================
Research Laboratory for Electronics  -  Massachusetts Institute of Technology
Room 36-893, 77 Massachusetts Ave,                      Phone: (617)-253-7307
Cambridge MA 02139                                      Fax:   (617)-258-7864
=============================================================================
also affiliated with:
INESC - Instituto de Engenharia de Sistemas e Computadores
Av. Alves Redol, 9-3o, 1000 Lisboa, PORTUGAL           Phone: (351)-1-3100288
=============================================================================
From: is08+@andrew.cmu.edu (Irianto Sukaton)
Newsgroups: alt.culture.indonesia
Subject: Re: The Indonesian Dictatorship
Date: 10 Nov 92 15:44:15 GMT
Distribution: alt.culture.indonesia
Organization: Carnegie Mellon, Pittsburgh, PA

Excerpts from netnews.alt.culture.indonesia: 2-Nov-92 Re: Re: The
Indonesian Dict.. by Jose A. S. Augusto@dalto 
> By the way, just one question. People from Indonesia that is studying
> in foreign countries must have some "political clearance" to be
> allowed to leave the country or not? What I'm asking is if people who
> is posting to this group is representative of all the tenths of
> important Indonesia islands or represent only a few? Are you members
> of Suharto's Political Party ? Is there someone that criticizes what
> is happening in East Timor? Just asking... 

Political clearance?  I don't think any country in the world allows people
with criminal records to obtain passports.  When I left 10 years ago I did
have to do a civics exam: This is more of a reflection on the varying
qualities in secondary school education in different places (in Indonesia)
rather than anything else.  All other "clearances" were just excesses of a
large beaureaucray which is not uncommon in developing nations and can even
be found in industrialized nations.

My father is from Jawa Timur and my mother comes from Tapanuli, but I don't
think I represent the views of the people from those areas.  In general,
the voices heard on internet are NOT the views of the people.  It may be
a nice pipe dream, but thats all it is.

Proper critique can only be based on knowledge and information.  Given the
low S/N on information originating from the free press, government press, 
special interest groups, and individuals, its a challenge to gather relevant
insightful information, let alone form condemning opinions.  There have been
several posts that have been helpful (to me) in gathering info on Timor
Timur here, but even they needed some sifting through.  I'm sure no one
here takes what is written in their favorite professional journal (Phys Rev
for me) at face value.

Rouli
is08@andrew.cmu.edu

Standard Discalimer: The views and opinions stated above are mine only
		     and do not reflect the views of CMU.
Newsgroups: alt.culture.indonesia
From: anto@donau.et.tudelft.nl (Anto Daryanto)
Subject: Re: Indonesian Rest. in Washington D.C.
Organization: Delft University of Technology, Dept. of Electrical Engineering
Date: Wed, 11 Nov 1992 13:17:03 GMT

From article <1992Nov10.145608.20221@news.acns.nwu.edu>, by edy@andersen.com (Edy Liongosari):
> Does any body know a good Indonesian restaurant around
> Washington D.C. area?
> 
> -Edy

Sorry, if this is not appropriate, but I do a good Restaurant (well, it
ain't Indonesian but Chinees) in The Hague, The Netherlands. 
It called FAT KEE, Gedempte Gracht 76 The Hague. It is very delicious, 
especially his roasted duck! (hmmmmm....). 

Smakelijk eten.....

Anto
--
Delft University of Technology,		|
Faculty of Electrical Engineering,    	| **********************************
Telecommunication- and Traffic-		|   **  Happy user of OS/2 2.0  **
Control Systems Group			| **********************************
					|
E-Mail: a.daryanto@dutetvd.et.tudelft.nl 
Newsgroups: alt.culture.indonesia,soc.culture.portuguese