HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: phantom@casbah.acns.nwu.edu (James Choi)
Subject: Re: Discipline in Korea
Organization: Northwestern University, Evanston Illinois.
Date: Sun, 10 Jan 1993 19:08:24 GMT

In article <hpark.726639862@husc.harvard.edu> hpark@husc8.harvard.edu (hayn park) writes:
>What's up with Korean society nowadays?  I haven't been back to lovely
>Kwangju since February of 1987, and am wondering about something:
>
>Why are so many kids I have seen in Korean communities in Mexico and Panama
>so utterly ssa-ga-ji-up-su?  Did some terrible change happen to society
>while I wasn't looking?  

1. What happened to Kwangju since 1987 and the kids in Mexico now have very
little to do each other.

2. One tends to see only a cross section of the society that they are
visiting.  That's why there are so many "problems" with novels about Korean
immigrants written by visitors.  From my experience, I would say it takes
years to have a good feel for the whole.  I am sure you could have found
those 'ssa-ga-ji-up-neun' kids in any part of Korea at any time in history.
However that's not how you remember because you saw many other counter
examples too.  It seems to me, you were deprived of the benfit of couter
example in your visit to those countries.

3. Korean immigrant society is different in each country.  The one in the
U.S. is probably the best educated and the best mannered bunch.  The
immigration door to each country opened at different times for different
reasons.  And people with different background went to different countries.
For example, you will be very hard pressed to find any Korean who went to
Mexico or Panama to get his Ph.D., and then settled down.  And it is very
common in Brazil for the Korean parents to ask the kids to quit school and
join the parents' business in high school years.  And most of them never go
back to school.  (Do not worry about them.  They are MUCH better off than I
am, financially) It is a totally different mentality, and those who grew up
in it might reflect that 'money-worshipping' inclination in their attitude.

4. Even if the Korean immigrants were uniform in terms of their background,
they are bound to take on some local color.  English word creeps in to the
vocabulary of those who live in the U.S. regardless of their fluency.  For
the same reason, local language creeps in to Koreans in any country.  And
so does the local culture to a certain degree.

James Choi
From: hseung@anat3d1.anatomy.upenn.edu (Hyunsuk Seung)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.korean
Subject: Cyberspace Corean Club
Date: 9 Jan 93 08:17:55 GMT
Organization: University of Pennsylvania


		      = Cyberspace Corean Club =

Are you depressed from work?  Do you find yourself staring into the
computer screen everyday?  Then join Cyberspace Corean Club, your door
way to meeting the person of your dream without worrying about getting
mixed up with unqualifying partner!  Yes, that's right!  We are the
pioneers of trendy bridegroom key-giveaway custom!  Our exclusive
membership is given to those who meet the rigorous standards set forth
by the Ministry of Madame Ddoo!  Not only do we discuss the latest
Corean soap operas, we actually live in one!  In fact, some of our
couples' stories have managed their way to the evening TV channels!
What's more, our quarterly membership training takes place at a
luxurious yacht off the shore of Cheju Island!  We bridge the gap
between elite students on the net!  Don't wrap yourself in your
selfish career to the point of neglecting to fall in love!  Join NOW!

Hyunsuk Seung 
hseung@anat3d1.anatomy.upenn.edu
Newsgroups: soc.culture.korean
Subject: Re: Goodbye, Cruel World.
From: babar+@pitt.edu (Jonggu Moon)
Date: 5 Jan 93 14:08:16 GMT
Organization: University of Pittsburgh

In article <1993Jan4.213406.1@uwovax.uwo.ca> 7007_5566@uwovax.uwo.ca (Henry E Chon) writes:
>In article <1993Jan5.012826.13162@news.acns.nwu.edu>, phantom@casbah.acns.nwu.edu (James Choi) writes:
>> Heavy drinking is known to cause the attitude above.  Boys, don't drink &
>> James Choi
>Well, I'm just sick and tired of James connecting everything to drinking.  
>***************************************************************************
>Henry E Chon
>7007_5566@uwovax.uwo.ca (Please note this account may be disconnected in the
>                         new year.  Direct all mails to the next one if so.)

Uhm....

I thought Henry sang "Goodbye cruel world" because
his account may be disconnected in the new year.
So just in case something happened and he couldn't usenet from the new one,
he would say goodby in advance.

Good morning.

- jon
Newsgroups: soc.culture.korean
From: phantom@casbah.acns.nwu.edu (James Choi)
Subject: Beating, seriously speaking.
Organization: Northwestern University, Evanston Illinois.
Date: Thu, 7 Jan 1993 03:30:56 GMT

Pointless flames aside, there is something to think about wife beating or
beating in general in Korea.

I would not be surprised if there is a reliable evidence that Korean men
indeed find their fist handy.  Just think about how they are raised.

Consider high school settings.  If you get into an argument with your
teacher.  What do you get by proving your teacher wrong on whatever issue
in a heated debate such as student's right to go to the movies?  A fist, or
more.

I realized most of the sck readers are much younger than I am.  But in my
time (in mid 1970s), beating was very common in Korean high school.  There
is no room for constructive argument with your teacher.  You either lose,
or if you win, you are beaten.  I am not talking about scholary arguments.
I am talking about mundain matters such as challenging teachers on why they
do not take off their shoes when students have to on the same floor.

While I frawn at those smart asses arguing their way out in those high
school movies, I admire the teacher's patience and superior reasoning to
impose their point to the students.  If it was it Korea, many of those
scenes would end in beating.

For the same reason, I have mixed feelings about teens talking back.  While
I was tutoring, I had plenty of those talking back to me.  I am happy to
say that I convinced most of them (I quit on the rest) to do what I want
them to do by reasoning, not by force.

Going back to the original issue.  What do you expect from those who grew
up where fist was stronger than reasoning?  This style of life is further
extended to the "mandatory" army life.  What would you expect?  I would
expect two breeds.  One who learned the lessons and others who hated the
system intensely.  And, of course, there will be plenty of exceptions.

But it is true that children imitate what they see.  They are only doing
upon the others what was done upon them through out their tender years.

Sad.

James Choi
From: hseung@anat3d1.anatomy.upenn.edu (Hyunsuk Seung)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.korean
Subject: Hyundai Hunday Hyunday  HeeeYonnDayyyy
Date: 8 Jan 93 01:07:35 GMT
Organization: University of Pennsylvania

babar+@pitt.edu (Jonggu Moon) writes:
| ...
| I hear there are other korean words that englishers cannot 
| pronounce either. What are they ?

Personally speaking, no English speaking person, past or present, can
perfectly pronounce the following poem.


                                                            ___
        |_|_|    ____                ___        []   ___    |__ |_
O-| O=| |_|_|    | |  |_|  [] |  O |   / |_    __|__  // |- |__ |   O-||
  |   | -----    |_|_ | |    Z     |     |      --+   |___     o      ||
         |__                                      |

  //                          _____  _____
 //\    /    |_| |_  _|_      |_|__  | |   |_  ___     Z
_____  /\ =| |_| |    o |     __|__  |_|__ |   //\ | ----
  |        |  ---+   |___       o       ---+       |   Z  
                 |                         |

   /    ___             ____  ___         |   |_|  ____
  /\ |  |   |_|   Z      / /   /\ |  O-|  |__ | |  | |  |_ 
 __|_|  |__ | |  _|_    _____   |=|    |     /\    |_|_ | .
    /\

Hyunsuk Seung
hseung@anat3d1.anatomy.upenn.edu
From: junglee@gandalf.rutgers.edu (Jung S. Lee)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.korean
Subject: Aren't you sick of talking about TWO KIMs?
Date: 6 Jan 93 23:57:06 GMT
Organization: Rutgers Univ., New Brunswick, N.J.

Let me ask you this. Aren't you guys sick of them? I thought the whole
country was sick of them. Don't you have something better to talk
about? Perhaps we should make alt.korean.politics.sucks.big.time where
you all can talk about it. Really get a life, guys. If you want to
talk about the politics, talk about something contructive like how to
improve standard living of the poor or women's right....... You seems
to have no life of your own and talk about others like those two kims. 

Jung
From: tyoon@husc8.harvard.edu (Tehshik Yoon)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.korean
Subject: Re: Hyundai Hunday Hyunday HeeeYonnDayyyy
Date: 8 Jan 93 15:19:30 GMT

hseung@anat3d1.anatomy.upenn.edu (Hyunsuk Seung) writes:

>babar+@pitt.edu (Jonggu Moon) writes:
>| ...
>| I hear there are other korean words that englishers cannot 
>| pronounce either. What are they ?

>Personally speaking, no English speaking person, past or present, can
>perfectly pronounce the following poem.

> [poem in korean deleted]

You know, actually, the head of the Korean Language department here is an
American born and bred who speaks perfect Korean with your every day Seoul
accent.  So it's not _impossible_ for an.....englisher, is it?....to 
pronounce Korean well.

>Hyunsuk Seung
>hseung@anat3d1.anatomy.upenn.edu

-Tehshik Yoon
tyoon@husc.harvard.edu
Newsgroups: soc.culture.korean
From: u0g68@keele.ac.uk (SH Song)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.korean
Subject: .test
Date: 11 Jan 93 17:00:08 GMT
Organization: Keele University, England
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1 PL6]

this is testing...
I hope u don't mind.
From: kaygee@hardy.u.washington.edu (Kevin Giansante)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.korean
Subject: Re: Hyundai Hunday Hyunday  HeeeYonnDayyyy
Date: 8 Jan 1993 00:52:46 GMT
Organization: University of Washington, Seattle
NNTP-Posting-Host: hardy.u.washington.edu

In article 11591, babar+@pitt.edu (Jonggu Moon)
asks:

>Why do english speaking people have such difficulty pronouncing
>the middle Y in Hyundai ?

There's a simple explanation for it: There are NO English words
that begin with that combination of letters representing that
combination of sounds.  The pronunciation of "huge" comes close,
but the English "oo" is not formed the same way as the Korean
"u", so even though we do have "huge" and "hue", the sound is
different.  We don't know what the word would sound like when
spoken by a speaker of Korean, and we don't expect a similarity
between "hyu-" and "hue" because they're spelled differently. 
So, we pronounce it in a way that is comfortable and convenient,
and nobody corrects us because there's nobody who cares enough to
do so.

Something similar happens when some Americans see the names "Sri
Lanka" or "Srinigar."  There are NO English words that begin with
"sr-", so some of us tend to say "Shr-" instead.

>Talking to the Hyundai Deeler in the US and keep hearing
>"hun day"

And hearing the dealers and the advertisers say it reinforces our
belief that we're saying it correctly.

>Is something different about the shape of the tounge ?

Nope.  Anybody who takes the time to learn another pronunciation
can do so.  It takes a little practice and attention to the fact
that there may be a problem.

>Or does america think the middle Y after the H is silent ?

There are NO English words that are spelled that way, so we
simply don't know how to handle that spelling.  Remember that
Korean is spelled pretty much the way it is pronounced; English
is far more irregular, so we take a different approach to
pronunciation.

>Maybe they should have spelled it Heeyunday from the start.

Maybe.  But there still may have been a problem.

>I hear there are other korean words that englishers cannot 
>pronounce either. What are they ?

I have trouble pronouncing my Korean students' names if I try to
read the English transliterations.

Rest assured that there are plenty of English words that are
difficult for Koreans.  "World" and "rural" are a couple that
come to mind immediately.  Do you see why?  The vowel sounds of
those words do not exist in Korean, and the closely linked "r"
and "l" are easily confused when separated by such indistinct
vowels.

BTW, there are no such animals as "englishers".  We are English
speakers.  And "America" and "English" are always capitalized :).


Newsgroups: soc.culture.korean
From: shlee@jhunix.hcf.jhu.edu (Seunghun Lee)
Subject: Re: Han-jung Kim's mention about D.J
Organization: HAC - Johns Hopkins University, Baltimore
Date: Wed, 6 Jan 1993 17:12:26 GMT

In article <1993Jan6.005354.21040@news.duc.auburn.edu> kim@magneto.physics.auburn.edu (Han-jung Kim) writes:
>
>

so to you the only lesson of this election is about poll.

I wish you learn the more important lessons (as other netters posted)
from this election.
From: hseung@retina.anatomy.upenn.edu (Roland H. Seung)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.korean
Subject: Re: Recommendation needed
Date: 9 Jan 93 02:32:17 GMT
Organization: Dept. of Neuroscience, U. of Pennsylvania

wc1q+@andrew.cmu.edu (Woncheal Choi) writes:
| The cost of surgery varies from 50,000 to 1000,000 Won depends on the
| reputation of the surgeon. There is 'cosmetic surgery Combo' which
| includes eyelids, nose, jews, breast surgery at the same time. 
                          ^^^^
So that's how Korean Jews are reincarnated!  

Seriously, after carefully reading numerous feedbacks from people at
KAIST, I said what the hell, and performed the eye-lid surgery on my
own.  My sister looks absolutely stunning!  It turned out much better
than I had originally anticipated!  You've got to see her!  Of course,
she no longer logins anymore, but I was expecting such side-effects.
UPenn is surely the top-most medical school!  Now, I am getting job
offers from conservative places such as Johns Hopkins!  The future of
eye-lid surgery looks mighty bright!  Count on me!  Too bad I can't
perform on my eyes.

Roland.
:!wq
Newsgroups: soc.culture.korean
From: kim@magneto.physics.auburn.edu (Han-jung Kim)
Subject: Re: SAEK-GAL-RHON
Message-I.d.: <1993Jan6.044704.70256@ns1.cc.lehigh.edu>
Organization: Auburn University, Auburn, AL
Date: Wed, 6 Jan 1993 08:53:34 GMT

>
>
>In a new year interview (by Jung-Ang Ilbo),  YS DENIED that DJ is
>pro-communist.   YS agreed that it is the wrong idea on DJ.
>
>What he said during the election, meant that some of the people were worried
>Minju's coalition with the progressive group.
>
>
>/Minho Jo/
>
>Ny slogan, "Warm ..."  ?
>
>Let's skip it this time.

Thank so much for the valuable informations.
If I have a time to read Jung-ang ilbo, I will scrap the news.

Thanks again.

Bye

Newsgroups: soc.culture.korean
From: jwjang@kaist.ac.kr (Chang Jin-woong)
Subject: Re: Recommendation needed
Organization: Korea Advanced Institute of Science and Technology
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1 PL8]
Date: Wed, 6 Jan 93 01:29:28 GMT

> Hello.
> 
> I hope the kind of request I am about to make hasn't been mentioned on
> this bulletin board, but anyway, my fashion-conscious sister wants to
> have one of those "eyelid folding" surgery.  Although I'm a retinal
> micro-circuitry researcher myself, performing such operation on my own
> does not happen to attract me, and to think of the consequences that
> may result from a failed one -- no matter how remote the possibility
> may be -- transforms me into a lifelong penitent brother.  So does
> anybody out there know any decent surgeon preferably in Korea?  I
> heard it's cheaper there.  Please post, since I suspect lot of folks
> on the net are interested in this matter.  Thanks in advance.

First, I regret my poor english....

In Korea, "Eyelid Folding Surgery"(It is called "ssang-kkeo-pool-soo-sool"
if I'm right) is as usual as making one's hair curly wave. And it is cheap,
of course. One can take the surgery from any "Seong-Hyung-Oe-Kwa".(sorry for
I don't know the exact english for the word)
More than half of korean girls take the surgery... as far as I know.

BTW... I said "it's cheap"... but the level of cheapness is not identical
among the people. I don't know the exact figure for the surgery, but it won't
be more than 300,000won(about $700).


Chang Jin-woong
jwjang@krissol.kriss.re.kr
From: btlee@emx.cc.utexas.edu (Byungtae Lee)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.korean
Subject: Re:enough is enuff
Date: 4 Jan 93 07:13:07 GMT
Organization: The University of Texas at Austin; Austin, Texas

From: mj03@ns1.cc.lehigh.edu (MINHO JO) writes:
:   -----   Enough is Enuff  --------------
:   Bo Jackson knows everything.  We don't know anything.
:   Anyway,  Happy New Year and Wish All The Best to You.

:                     Minho Jo, Lehigh University
:                     Computer Integrated Manufacturing Lab.,
:                     Industrial Engineering Department

: My ultimate goal is to build, "Warm-Hearted Human Integrated Society".
: *****************************************************************************

     Thanks for your season's greetings.
     The same wishes go for you.

     Byungtae Lee
From: wjin@cs.uh.edu (W. Woody Jin)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.korean
Subject: Re: No, there's no Nol-Ja-Nom (Korean-Playboy)
Date: 7 Jan 1993 16:28:48 GMT
Organization: University of Houston
NNTP-Posting-Host: rodin.cs.uh.edu

In article <1993Jan07.160801.5767@eng.umd.edu> dskim@eng.umd.edu (Daeshik Kim) writes:
>	That was a joke against the orig. posting that was looking
>	for Korean Playboy, where I mentioned about Shim-HyeJin's
>	being centerfold.

In fact, I had a good laugh when Mr. Kim translated 'Playboy' to 'NolJaNom'
(a direct, Konglish-style translation).

>	Please stop sending me email looking for that imaginary
>	magazine!
>	Now on, I would not even reply to them; I'll just purge'em.

You even mentioned that you were joking.
Seems to me that it could be a good business to create one.


-- 
____   ____  ____ ____________________________________ (___) _________________
|  |   |  |  |  |  W. Woody Jin (wjin@cs.uh.edu)       (o o)      Moo.... 
|  |   |  |__|  |  PhD Student. Research Asst.  o=======\ /  I'm  a Cow Lover.
|  |   |        |  Dept. of Computer Science   / |     ||O   My wife  was born
\  |---|  |--|  |  University of Houston      `  ||'---||    in Cow year. Mooo
 \____/|__|  |__| _______________________________^^    ^^_____________________
From: hpark@husc8.harvard.edu (hayn park)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.korean
Subject: Discipline II
Date: 11 Jan 93 04:28:01 GMT
Article-I.D.: husc.hpark.726726481

Is there any society out there that has not suffered the decline of
discipline with the coming of material wealth?  

Someone mentioned differences among Korean societies in Korea and Korean
societies abroad.  I know a lot of Koreans in Panama, Mexico, and quite a
few in the US, and my experience was that the new people coming fresh from
Seoul are the worst.  I sincerely hope that this is an exception.

Many historians and sociologists have pointed to the fact that the new
generation has not suffered from the famine, war, etc. that the old did. 
Japan, I believe, is having similar problems where young white-collar
workers are actually going home at 5 sharp, instead of sticking around and
working overtime.  Don't get me wrong: I believe that a lot of people have
worked very hard and deserve to relax a bit, but what scares me is that
the loosening of the work ethic, self discipline, and fighting-competitive
spirit, will be catastrophic to a society that was built on precisely
these virtues.

I wonder if Korean parents are getting lenient, or if society as a whole
is suffering from the fad of over-adoring children, to the point where
they become horrendously spoiled.

Genuinely worried and determined to keep traditional child-rearing
practices alive, I hope someone, especially who is in Korea or has been
there recently, can clarify things.

Respectfully yours,
Hayn Park
hpark@husc.harvard.edu
Newsgroups: soc.culture.korean
From: phantom@casbah.acns.nwu.edu (James Choi)
Subject: Re: wife beating
Organization: Northwestern University, Evanston Illinois.
Date: Thu, 7 Jan 1993 00:16:33 GMT

In article <1ie1miINN37e@shelley.u.washington.edu> kaygee@hardy.u.washington.edu (Kevin Giansante) writes:
>Gosh, James, I've never thought of it that way.  You've got a
>good point there, and I'll bet you're right.  Thanks for helping
>me put this in perspective.  You've changed the way I think about
>this, and probably my whole life.  Thanks a lot, buddy.  You're a
>great guy, and real smart, too.

You are very welcome.  It is a true joy to see people like you enlightened.

James Choi
Newsgroups: soc.culture.korean
From: phantom@casbah.acns.nwu.edu (James Choi)
Subject: Re: self-insufficiency
Organization: Northwestern University, Evanston Illinois.
Date: Sat, 9 Jan 1993 22:55:32 GMT

In article <1993Jan9.183119.19825@news.cs.brandeis.edu> tchoi@binah.cc.brandeis.edu writes:
>One of my American friends told me that I'm a self-insufficient and 
>pitiful man because I don't know how to cook.
>But do I really have to be self-sufficient? I'm living in
>capitalism, so only if I can produce something which I can trade with
>other things, I don't have to be self-sufficient, right?

My short attention span forced me into all kinds of hobbies and interests.
From that diversity, I think my advisor deduced that I must enjoy cooking
as well.  He was rather surprised that I do not cook, and have no interest
in cooking in the future either.  He told me, "Jim, if you don't cook, you
are not a renascence man."  So, I replied, "well, then, I am not a
renascence man."

There is a huge "polical-correctness" attached to cooking.  A man is seen
as caring, gentle, you-name-it, if he enjoys cooking.  If he does not cook,
it does not matter what else he is into, he is a pig.  Now when someone
asks me "do you cook?"  I answer "No, I just eat" probably my image is
permanently sealed as that of a pig.

James Choi
From: yeonwook@hardy.u.washington.edu (Mark Choi)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.korean
Subject: Re: Looking for Korean Playboy
Date: 4 Jan 93 16:07:04 GMT
Article-I.D.: shelley.1i9nb8INN7hk
Organization: University of Washington, Seattle
NNTP-Posting-Host: hardy.u.washington.edu

In article <1htpedINNo0h@shelley.u.washington.edu> kaygee@hardy.u.washington.edu (Kevin Giansante) writes:
>In article: 11424 of soc.culture.korean, piglet@ccwf.cc.utexas.edu
>(Kyung Hee) writes:
>
>
>>     Hi!
>
>
>>    This no joke.  I'm looking for magazines like Playboy and Penthouse
>>that
>>have Korean girls in them.  I already know that there's nothing like this
>>in
>>Austin.  I was wondering if there is something out in Los Angeles or
>>somewhere 
>>else in California and possibly in New York(where Koreans are heavily
>>populated) where I could get access to it.  It would be great if I could
>>get
>>subscriptions to the magazines.  If anyone knows anything or have any
>.other 
>>helpful information that would assist me in this hunt it would be greatly
>>appreciated.  Thanks. 
>
>>                                             Kyung Hee
>
>
>Gosh, I don't know anything about those magazines, but I have a whole
>bunch of pictures I've taken of Korean girls here in Seattle.  They're
>all beautiful, they're all naked, and I'll share them with you for just
>$100 for a set of twelve.  Do you like two girls together?  Special
>price just for you: $7.50 per pair.  But maybe you won't like these 
>pictures; all the girls are under twenty-one.  Maybe you'd think that's
>exploitation.
>
>Better forget it.
>
>


Come on. This is silly. If you wish to make transactions with a person
on pornographic material, leave it OFF of this newsgroup, OK KEVIN?

Of course I am not one who to say what is to be on or off this channel,
but it is common sense, you obviously lack it.

You really make the Korean community look bad you know. Especially since
this is one of the first I've seen you post here. It is improper to use
soc.culture.korean as another erotica newsgroup as you tend to think of
it as. You should apologize to the readers of this newsgroup for making
them look bad.
Newsgroups: soc.culture.korean