From: floydg@oakhill.sps.mot.com (Floyd Goodrich)
Subject: Re: taunting for 15
Organization: Motorola Inc., Austin Tx.
Date: Thu, 10 Sep 1992 14:00:50 GMT

(John P. Gloria) writes:
>floydg@oakhill.sps.mot.com (Floyd Goodrich) writes:
>>(John P. Gloria) writes:
>>>If [taunting] resulted in
>>>a fight, then I would back it up, irregardless of the outcome.
>>
>>That's probably why they made it a 15 yard penalty:  to cut down on 
>>things that incite fights.  I don't have any problem with you telling me
>>how great you are; it's just fine since I will ignore it.  What I do object
>>to is someone who cannot sing their own accolades without putting everyone 
>>else down.  Socialization, maybe.  If you make a good play, that's fine,
>>but you're just plain stupid if you think the defender will not make just
>>as fine a play later.
>>
>It has nothing to do with the other person being stupid as you aptly
>put it.  Presumably, you are not referring to me as stupid, but were
>simply making a generalization.  It is strictly academic whether
>another player makes a fine play or not.  It is simply competition.

I was not referring to you as you, just you as generic.

>>I think it says a lot about a person if they can't cheer/promote themselves
>>or their team without knocking others abilities or others' teams.  Think 
>>about it this way:  if you beat a defender and tell him he sucks, that kind 
>>of takes away from your most recent accomplishment, doesn't it?
>>
>Again, the "rules" of ethics or sportsmanship are not considered
>here.  I will be the first to acknowledge an opponent's good hit,
>play or whatever.  It still does not prevent me from harassing the
>other player.   As pointed by me earler, you and I are at opposite 
>ends on this issue.  I am not inferring you are stupid, inferior,
>a wimp or anything for that matter, aside from the fact that we
>differ on taunting.

I thought this thread originated wrt taunting calls under the rules of the 
NFL, when someone asked why taunting was called twice in the Giants/SF game.
In that context, the rules are inherently considered.  If you want to discount
ethics or sportsmanship, would you consider intentionally injuring an opponent
to help your team win?

Also, the article you quoted was my first post on this thread, so it is
's unlikely you told ME we were on opposite ends of the spectrum.  I
guess I would divide the issue into "celebration" versus "taunting."  I'm 
all for celebration after a fine play, but I'm dead set against taunting.
My dictionary defines taunting as "to deride in a mocking or sarcastic
manner; to jeer at; to ridicule."  I don't see why that has ANY place in
any sport (except maybe pro wrestling  :-) ).  

It's unlikely anyone will change your mind on this; it seems made up.  But 
I remember before the Hawaiian Ironman Triathlon a few years back when the
announcers asked 6-time winner Dave Scott about his rivalry with Mark Allen.
Scott said, "I hope he has the best race of his life and I still beat him."  I
personally find that attitude more attractive than someone standing over me 
waving his finger in my face and telling me I'm toast.

>The whole issue is whether the NFL should have voted this rule in.
>Are you saying you agree with rule?  I don't agree with it.

The NFL distinguishes between taunting and celebration.  Last year, *excessive*
celebration was a 5-yard penalty.  Just plain celebration was perfectly legal.
This year, I hear they're going to be lax on calling excessive celebration
penalties, but taunting has never been legal in the NFL.  It just hasn't been
a huge problem until the last few years.  Unsportsmanlike conduct has always
been a penalty.  I don't think unsportsmanlike conduct is defined anywhere, but
I don't know.  You may think that taunting is perfectly fine sportsmanlike
conduct, but I and the NFL differ with you.  That doesn't make you wicked or 
evil.  

I noticed you didn't reply to the point about taunting possibly cutting down
on the number of fights in the NFL.  Do you think there's any merit in that
argument?


Floyd Goodrich
floydg@oakhill.sps.mot.com