HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: rna@leland.Stanford.EDU (Robert Ashcroft)
Subject: Re: The Decline of Britain (was Re: Great Britain as a malfunctioning democracy)
Organization: DSG, Stanford University, CA 94305, USA
Date: Tue, 14 Apr 92 23:59:46 GMT

In article <1992Apr14.220357.213802@cs.cmu.edu> goddard+@cs.cmu.edu (Nigel Goddard) writes:
>
>The Economist is a pretty good indicator of what the business community
>in Britain (and increasingly the US) want.
>
> ....
>
>  And of the two,
>the Economist is more loyal to the business community; the editors are
>quite willing to criticize Tory policy if it is not good for business
>interests.  American approval of the magazine is due to the incredibly
>strong identification of educated Americans with business interests
>(often to the point of equating "democracy" with "free markets", for
>example).

That's pretty simplistic.  The Economist does not hew to the business line.
It supports the classical liberal economic line---free trade and free
markets.  It is often at odds with what the British (or any other govt)
may be doing at the behest of its businesses.

RNA



Xref: sparky soc.culture.british:5916 rec.arts.books:7690
From: sullivana@gtephx.UUCP (Anne Sullivan)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.british,rec.arts.books
Subject: Re: ENGLISH AS SHE IS SPOKE
Date: 8 Apr 92 17:48:53 GMT
Organization: AG Communication Systems, Phoenix, Arizona

In article <1992Mar24.204649.15864@eff.org>, mnemonic@eff.org (Mike Godwin) writes:
> In article <1992Mar17.175309.10922@athena.cas.vanderbilt.edu> sappenc@ctrvax.vanderbilt.edu writes:
> 
> >I beg to differ.  I grew up outside of Dallas and we called all
> >soft drinks "Cokes".  Both of my parents did this as well.  My
> >father was from North Texas and my mother was from South Texas. 
> >I also found the practice prevalent in Austin when I lived there.
> >Perhaps "cold drinks" is an East Texas phenomenon.
> 
> I side with Kathleen Much on this issue. I heard "cold drinks"
> as the generic term for soft drinks in Houston where I grew up,
> as well as in other parts of Texas. The use of "cokes" was much rarer.
> 
Curiouser and curiouser.
I also grew up in Houston, but we used "cokes" or "soda".  (I
think soda was used mostly at home with my New Englander
parents.)  Maybe the term used depends on where you lived
in Houston or when you were living there?

Anne Sullivan  @ AG Communication Systems, Phoenix AZ  
(A joint venture of GTE and AT&T)
UUCP: ...!{ncar!noao!asuvax | uunet!samsung!romed!asuvax | att}!gtephx!sullivana   
Internet: gtephx!sullivana@asuvax.eas.asu.edu
From: esh2@po.CWRU.Edu (Evelyn S. Hlabse)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.british
Subject: Re: Rampant paranoia (was Voting slips: what happens to them,DANGER!)
Date: 10 Apr 92 01:58:16 GMT
Article-I.D.: usenet.1992Apr10.015816.2107
Reply-To: esh2@po.CWRU.Edu (Evelyn S. Hlabse)
Organization: Case Western Reserve University, Cleveland, OH (USA)


In a previous article, jp@tygra.Michigan.COM (John Palmer) says:

>In article <1992Apr04.213121.8468@robobar.co.uk> gtoal@robobar.co.uk (Graham Toal "gtoal@vangogh.cs.berkeley.edu") writes:
>"
>"OK, what you missed (and haven't noticed any time you voted) is that
>"when you go to vote, they find your name in a large book.  [BYour name
>"has a number next to it.  You are given a voting form with that
>"number on it.  Therefore it is trivially easy to find out how you
>"voted.  Wht we Brits have stood for this blatant disregard for
>"democracy for so long never fails to surprise me.  The 'party line'
>"is that the information is needed to catch abuse of the voting system
>"where unscrupulous people may vote more than once or some such rot.
>"Doesn't make sense to me.  The names alone should be enough...
>"
>
>Got new for you: They do that here in the USA too. The good old 
>City of Detroit Election Commission has such books as do almost
>all other places that I know of.
>-- 

Same problem in Cleveland, Ohio.  When you vote in a primary you
have the option of voting for the issues as well as the party
candiates.  You must declare which party and the next time around
you get hassled (my term) if you switch party affiliation which some
do in the hope of putting a weaker candidate opposite the sure thing
candidate of the opposite party.  Sounds like things are much the
same on both sides of the Atlantic.

>CAT-TALK Conferencing System   | E-MAIL: jp@Michigan.COM
>+1 313 790 6426 (USR HST)      | MICHIGAN NETWORK SYSTEMS, INC.  
>+1 313 790 6432 (TELEBIT PEP)  | 800-736-5984  FAX: 313-790-6437 
>********EIGHT NODES*********** | TELEBIT, DIGIBOARD, ISC UNIX, MICROPOLIS
>
-- 
Newsgroups: soc.culture.british
From: rna@leland.Stanford.EDU (Robert Ashcroft)
Subject: Re: The Decline of Britain (was Re: Great Britain as a malfunctioning democracy)
Organization: DSG, Stanford University, CA 94305, USA
Date: Thu, 16 Apr 92 23:10:02 GMT

In article <JIM.92Apr16180018@hunter.cs.strath.ac.uk> jim@cs.strath.ac.uk (Jim Reid) writes:
>The
>electricity companies are burning imported coal and precious gas
>because it's cheaper than British coal. The result will be our coal
>industry will be wiped out and will cost the country a fortune to
>revive it once North Sea gas is used up and the foreign coal becomes
>unavailable or too expensive. In some cases, the geology will mean
>that coal reserves will be lost forever once the mine closes.

"precious gas"?  What's so precious about it?  There is a hell of a lot
more natural gas in the world than oil, that's for sure, and burning it
releases a lot less carbon in the atmosphere than relatively dirty coal.

Foriegn coal becomes too expensive or unavailable?  The latest figures I've
seen indicated there are hundreds of years of coal left in the world---not
that we necessarily want to use any of it anyway, given how dirty the stuff
is.  The British coal industry is still uneconomic, and the jobs in that
industry are dirty and dangerous.  Why should the govt support that industry
by taking money out of the economy to support these dirty and dangerous
jobs when that money would otherwise naturally flow towards the creation of
other economically viable jobs that wouldn't kill the people who do them.

>[...
>Furthermore, there is no incentive to invest
>in more environmentally friendly generating schemes such as CHP and
>district heating (more thermally efficient) or in renewable supplies
>like hydro or tidal power stations.]

There will be once a carbon tax is imposed.  Treasury departments all over
the world are licking their lips over this one---a chance to be green and
raise taxes at the same time!

>No doubt "the market" would invest in education or public transport if
>they could demonstrate a return on that investment.

Except that it is amazingly hard to recapture the return on these investments,
which is why government sometimes needs to be involved.

>IMHO, public services like utilities, health, public transport and
>education are too important to be left to market forces. This causes
>short term profit taking - another "British disease" which has been
>conveniently forgotten even though it still thrives - to take priority
>over the long-term interests of the public.

Utilities---the central grid should be govt owned and nothing else.
Health---yes, suitable for govt intervention of some type.
Public Transport---yes and no.  Private enterprise can play a role.
For example, build, operate and transfer contracts.
Education---clearly a case for govt intervention.
From: lf@uk.ac.uea.sys (Luke Fitzgerald)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.british
Subject: Re: Fill in the ___...  major, minor; maximus, ___, minimus
Date: 6 Apr 92 08:46:47 GMT
Organization: School of Information Systems

In article <1992Apr4.055955.26554@usenet.ins.cwru.edu> ai888@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Thomas Flesher) writes:


>Traditionally, in English public schools, if two brothers named, say, 
>Smith are attending the school at the same time, they are distinguished 
>as Smith major and Smith minor. If three brothers are attending, I believe 
>that the oldest is referred to as Smith maximus and the youngest as 
>Smith minimus, but what is the one in the middle called? Smith medius?

Well, no.  The older boys generally stay 'major' and 'minor', although the 
youngest becomes 'minimus'.

L
From: martinb@bottomdog.uk.sun.com (Martin Baines - Sun UK - SE Manager Cambridge/Gatwick)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.british
Subject: Canal in 'Last of the Summer Wine'
Date: 10 Apr 92 14:19:57 GMT
Reply-To: martinb@bottomdog.uk.sun.com
Organization: Sun Microsystems
NNTP-Posting-Host: bottomdog.uk.sun.com

Hi,

Does anyone know which canal is used in filming some episodes
of 'Last of the Summer Wine'?

I know most of the village shots are filmed in Holmfirth,
however, there is no currently navigable canal listed in
my Nicholson going anywhere near the area. The canal looks
like it is fully navigable narrow canal, so I guess it
could either be part of the (being restored) Huddersfield
Narrow, or just that the canalside shots are filmed on
a totally different waterway.

Are there any Canal or TV enthusists who can help?

Ta

Martin



---
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
"You might say that, but I couldn't possibly comment"

Martin Baines, Sales Support Manager,
Sun Microsystems Ltd, 306 Science Park, Cambridge, CB4 4WG, UK
Phone: +44 223 420421                 Fax: +44 223 420257
JANET:     Martin.Baines@uk.co.sun    Other UK:  Martin.Baines@sun.co.uk
Internet:  Martin.Baines@UK.sun.com
X.400:     g=martin s=baines prmd=sunir admd=mci c=us
From: nigel@ssdc.honeywell.com (Nigel Birch)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.british
Subject: Monk music on Butterflies
Date: 16 Apr 92 15:18:04 GMT
Article-I.D.: ssdc.1992Apr16.151804.4362
Organization: csdd

Dear All,

This is a strange question, but I'm hoping that one of you may know.

You will all remember the classic situation comedy "Butterflies".  In one
or more episodes, Ria's husband (the boring dentist) would be sitting in his
armchair listening to a record of monks singing. DOES ANYONE KNOW THE NAME
OF THIS RECORDING???????

If none of you know, I will have to write to the BBC!

If by chance, any of you are BBC employees......maybe you could find someone
to ask!????

My e-mail address is nigel@ssdc.honeywell.com

Thanks,

Nigel C. Birch
Newsgroups: soc.culture.british
From: cthorne@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (Charles E Thorne)
Subject: Re: Great Britain as a malfunctioning democracy
Organization: The Ohio State University
Date: Wed, 15 Apr 1992 17:06:06 GMT

In article <1992Apr14.160129.9946@bristol.ac.uk> P.Smee@bristol.ac.uk (Paul Smee) writes:
>In article <jh5kdak@zola.esd.sgi.com> livesey@solntze.esd.sgi.com (Jon Livesey) writes:
>>Personally, I'd be pretty upset if my local Party-X candidate spent
>>a lot of time finding out about local affairs, and was duly elected
>>by and the othe voters in my constituency, and was then bumped out 
>>of Parliament to make room for some dink whose party just happened
>>to get 1% of the vote throughout the nation, but never put in the work
>>to get elected in any specific constituency.

>Problem is the all-or-nothing nature of the system.  In general, the
>local MPs do NOT look after the best interests of their voters, in any
>detailed sense.  The nature of the system is such that they generally
>toe the party line.  

>Now, it is probably true that the guy got elected because the party
>line matches local perceived majority interests in most respects; but,
>even in cases where the constituents believe it doesn't, the MP will
>probably follow the party line anyway.  (There's pretty good reason to
>believe that this is what finally nailed Chris Patten in Bath.  On one
>critical issue, his voters were strongly against Tory dogma, but he
>went for it anyway, and got caught out.)

>Why do they do this?  Well, they are caught between the proverbial rock
>and the hard place.  If too many government MPs vote against some major
>government policy, it may force dissolution of Parliament, and a new
>election; and, the party may well not reselect them to defend their
>seat because 'it was their fault'.  On the other hand, if they vote
>with the Government but against their constituents' interests, then the
>voters may eventually get them.  All in all, though, it's probably more
>in their self-interest to stick with their party, which, if it likes
>them, will simply stand them for election in some other seat, next
>chance it gets.

>Now, there are two features of the US political system which work
>against this effect, and in favor of elected representatives being able
>to support the wishes of their constituents.

Just to interject some U.S. information here.

Congress and the President are two totally separate institutions.  The
congressional representatives are elected by districts (approx. 1/2 million
population) and represent those districts during their term.  The President
is elected by the people at large every four years--not by the congressional
representatives.  There is probably more dependence of the President on the
Congressional reps. since the National parties consist of members of the
local parties (which the congressional reps automatically belong to).

The congress has no reason to support the President, even if they're in the
same party.  In parliamentary countries, if the prime-minister isn't supported
by the MP's, the government fails.
From: matthew@ntl02.decnet.nokia.fi (Matthew Faupel)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.british
Subject: Re: Thoughts on Election Results
Date: 13 Apr 92 12:50:12 GMT
	<10APR199221210338@zeus.tamu.edu>
Organization: Nokia Telecommunications, Cambridge, UK

>>>>> On 11 Apr 92 02:21:00 GMT, pac9897@zeus.tamu.edu said:

> Can anyone supply the % figures for the Liberal Democrats voting share
> and their share of seats in the new Parliament - I think that will illustrate
> the fairness of "first past the post" fully.

The LibDems got about 18% of the vote and 3% of the seats in parliament (20
out of 651).  In terms of votes for seats, nationally the LibDems needed about
300,000 votes for each seat they got in parliament, the Labour party 50,000
and the Conservatives 40,000 (each figure to the nearest 10,000).


Matthew
--
---* Amnesiac the Wizard *------------------* matthew@uk.tele.nokia.fi *---
 Opinions expressed here are not those of my company.    | NB. ntl02 is EN
 They're not even my own; I plagiarised the lot of them! | TEE EL ZERO TWO
---* matthew@ntl02.decnet.nokia.fi *------------------* Matthew Faupel *---
From: jes@tcom.stc.co.uk (JES)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.british
Subject: Re: Natural Law
Date: 13 Apr 92 16:37:49 GMT
Reply-To: jes@tcom.stc.co.uk (JES)
Organization: NT Europe Limited, London N11 1HB.

In article <skenny.702921687@femto.engr.mun.ca> skenny@nano.engr.mun.ca (Shawn Kenny) writes:
>I saw an article on the CBC National News about the "Natural Law Party"
>with the company of the Maharishi, Doug Henning and George Harrison. I
>was wondering whether this was on the ballot and if so how many votes
>did it get from the populous? 

They stood in about 500 constituencies (i.e. most) around the country.
They polled about 100-200 votes in each.  Just as well they had some rich
sponsors to pay the L500,000 lost deposits bills!

Dave Kennard.
From: traub@rtf.bt.co.uk (Michael Traub)
Newsgroups: uk.politics,soc.culture.british
Subject: Re: Simple message
Date: 16 Apr 92 10:36:04 GMT
Organization: BT Customer Systems, Brighton, UK

In article <1V08iB15w164w@mantis.co.uk> mathew@mantis.co.uk writes:
>I'm about to buy a computer which is 4x as expensive as the one I used to
>have.  My income isn't an order of magnitude away from 4x what it used to be
>(I'm talking about disposable income here, once I've subtracted any tax,
>rent, NI and so on).
>
Yeah, but we are a bunch of junkies communicating here, perhaps not
typical of the normal computer buying public.

>Of course, there's a limit on how long one can buy consumer goods and argue
>that they're in some sense necessary.  My old hi-fi equipment lasted me for
>about 10 years, and I've been replacing things as they break.  I've got the
>amp and speakers to go, then I'll be finished for another decade.
>
*Exactly*.

>I bought a cheap NICAM video and a new TV (the old one was starting to lose
>its picture intermittently) so I don't need to buy another TV or video until
>D-MAC takes over or something breaks.  The expensive computer should last at
>least 5 years (I have modest needs).  So pretty soon I'll have bought all the
>VAT-rated consumer goods I want.
>
Same here.

>Of course, most people don't stop there.  They want a *better* hi-fi, a
>*better* computer, a *better* microwave...  I'm also somewhat atypical in
>that I don't have a car, which is an enormous drain on most people's
>finances.
>
I'm not so sure that people shop until they drop.

>The rich seem to find lots of things to spend their extra money on. 
>Jewellery, expensive hotels, expensive restaurants, BMWs, private jets,
>enormous houses and so on.  None of that appeals to me, but maybe if I were
>rich it would.  I live in hope that I'll buck the trend and find myself with
>more money than I know what to do with.  (Wonder if the boss is reading
>this...)
>
I have more money than I know what to do with (well sort of, I know I
want enough money to retire before I am 35). I don't waste it on
unnecessary consumer goods, and from the rich people I know, they don't
either (else they wouldn't be rich would they?).

>> >	Thirty times nothing is still nothing.
>> Yes but thirty times even a Sinclair Spectrum is an expensive computer.
>
>Thirty times a Sinclair Spectrum is a mid-to-high-end Mac or a NeXT.  Add a
>big colour screen, a colour Postscript printer and lots of expensive
>software and you'll probably have spend 30x the price of an Amiga or cheap PC
>clone.
>
30 times 650 quid equals 19,500 in my book! I have two 486's, one 286,
a couple of XT's, a colour printer, a big colour screen and *lots* of
expensive software and I still haven't spent 15,000 quid!



-- 
Michael Traub
BT Customer Systems, Brighton Systems Centre. traub@rtf.bt.co.uk
Newsgroups: soc.culture.british,soc.culture.celtic
From: dbrooks@osf.org (David Brooks)
Subject: Re: ENGLISH AS SHE IS SPOKE
Followup-To: soc.culture.british,rec.arts.books
Reply-To: dbrooks@osf.org (David Brooks)
Organization: Open Software Foundation
Date: Sun, 12 Apr 1992 17:14:23 GMT

goldfarb@ocf.berkeley.edu (David Goldfarb) writes:
>)Question for the net:  who said of the Holy Roman Empire that it was
>)neither holy, nor Roman, nor an empire?
>
>	Wasn't it Voltaire?

Ce corps qui s'appelait et qui s'appelle encore le saint empire romain
  '		      `
n'etait en aucune maniere ni saint, ni romain, ni empire.

				Essai sur les Moeurs et l'Esprit des Nations

>	(If not, then it must've been Disraeli. :-)

Perhaps he said it too, as in "you will, Ben, you will".
-- 
David Brooks				dbrooks@osf.org
Systems Engineering, OSF		uunet!osf.org!dbrooks
Newsgroups: soc.culture.british
From: eac@world.std.com (Eric A Cottrell)
Subject: What is open in London, UK on Easter Monday?
Keywords: STORE OPEN ON EASTER MONDAY RETAIL
Organization: The World Public Access UNIX, Brookline, MA
Date: Fri, 17 Apr 1992 18:01:11 GMT

Hello All,
A friend is going to be in London on Easter Monday (4/20) and wonders what
what will be open and what will be closed? Is it possible to go to Museums
and change money?
Please Email me at eac@world.std.com
73 Eric eac@world.std.com

Newsgroups: soc.culture.british
From: jp@tygra.Michigan.COM (John Palmer)
Subject: Re: Rampant paranoia (was Voting slips: what happens to them,DANGER!)
Organization: CAT-TALK Conferencing System, Clinton Township, MI
Date: Wed, 8 Apr 92 02:09:32 GMT

In article <1992Apr04.213121.8468@robobar.co.uk> gtoal@robobar.co.uk (Graham Toal "gtoal@vangogh.cs.berkeley.edu") writes:
"
"OK, what you missed (and haven't noticed any time you voted) is that
"when you go to vote, they find your name in a large book.  Your name
"has a number next to it.  You are given a voting form with that
"number on it.  Therefore it is trivially easy to find out how you
"voted.  Wht we Brits have stood for this blatant disregard for
"democracy for so long never fails to surprise me.  The 'party line'
"is that the information is needed to catch abuse of the voting system
"where unscrupulous people may vote more than once or some such rot.
"Doesn't make sense to me.  The names alone should be enough...
"

Got new for you: They do that here in the USA too. The good old 
City of Detroit Election Commission has such books as do almost
all other places that I know of.
-- 
CAT-TALK Conferencing System   | E-MAIL: jp@Michigan.COM
+1 313 790 6426 (USR HST)      | MICHIGAN NETWORK SYSTEMS, INC.  
+1 313 790 6432 (TELEBIT PEP)  | 800-736-5984  FAX: 313-790-6437 
********EIGHT NODES*********** | TELEBIT, DIGIBOARD, ISC UNIX, MICROPOLIS
Newsgroups: soc.culture.british
From: ewadams@netcom.Netcom.COM (Ernest Adams)
Subject: Attn: Americans working in Britain!
Date: Thu, 09 Apr 92 09:56:47 GMT
Organization: Netcom Online Communications Service


I'm interested in a little information.

1) How long have you worked there?  For a British company or a British
subsidiary of an American company?

2) What kind of visa do you have?  How long did it take to get?  Did your
company help you to get it?

3) When you moved from the U.S., did your company a] move you, b] find
and/or pay for your lodging there?

4) MOST IMPORTANT: What can a programmer with 10 years Unix workstation
and IBM PC experience, and a couple of years of first-line management
experience, expect to make living in the London area?

Thanks for any advice you can offer.

-- Ernest
Xref: sparky soc.culture.british:6654 alt.society.civil-liberty:3518 misc.legal:9395 talk.politics.misc:18526
From: livesey@solntze.esd.sgi.com (Jon Livesey)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.british,alt.society.civil-liberty,misc.legal,talk.politics.misc
Subject: Re: British Bill: of Rights? of Goods?
Date: 16 Apr 92 23:02:46 GMT
Article-I.D.: zola.jkpob6k
Organization: sgi

In article <1g7wKk#0qW3125rwrX46khOrq5BQ5YL=eric@snark.thyrsus.com>, eric@snark.thyrsus.com (Eric S. Raymond) writes:
|> 
|> There is a semi-organized minority of constitutionalist opinion in Great
|> Britain, but the typical British attitude is that if the system ain't broke
|> they shouldn't try to fix it.  

Not quite.   The attitude of this Briton is that if having a Constitution
allows you slavery, segregation, denial of voting rights, suspension of 
Habeas Corpus, McCarthy, and the imprisonment of American citizens in 
wartime, then maybe it isn't even a fix.

|> This lets the British government get away with things like the Official 
|> Secrets Act

Meanwhile in the US, anyone who has ever worked for the Security
Services has to submit subsequent publications for prior censorship.
Admiral Stansfield Turnder, Carter's head of the CIA, commented that
the Spycatcher case could not have happened in the US because no
US publisher would have accepted the manuscript without CIA
approval.

The US routinely classifies research that they would like to keep
confidential, and very few people see anything wrong with it.

|> and "D notices" (a form of prior censorship on the mass media) that 
|> would be near-unthinkable here.

Unthinkable?     During the Gulf War, the US press worked entirely
under the supervision of the Pentagon.   Stories such as the burying
alive of Iraqi troops were simply not published until months later.

The Army even invented stories for the press to publish which later 
turned out to be - erm - a little exagerated, like the performance 
of the Patriot missile.      Having the Government write your stories 
for you, it seems to me, should be counted as censorship++.

jon.
Newsgroups: soc.culture.british