From: sco@aero.org (Stacey C. O'Brien)
Newsgroups: rec.music.christian
Subject: Re: Carmen is an artist.  Period.
Date: 21 Dec 1992 17:00:05 GMT
Organization: The Aerospace Corporation, El Segundo, CA
NNTP-Posting-Host: antares.aero.org

In article <JLow-091292092820@l32282.mdc.com> JLow@hcisun.mdc.com (J Low) writes:
>In article <1992Dec8.162915.389@uoft02.utoledo.edu>,
>jsteiner@anwsun.phya.utoledo.edu (jason 'Think!' steiner) wrote:
>																									                ^^^^^^
>> 
>
>
>> > Who's to say that just because compositionally he isn't extending 
>> > the outer envelope of music that he isn't making the best music he 
>> > possibly can?
>> 
>> not me. he might be making the best music he possibly can. that doesn't
>> make him a good artist. i might be cooking the best food i possibly
>> can. that doesn't make me a chef.
>> 
>> > I think artistry is being truthful to whatever is inside of you, to
>> > whatever God has laid on your heart.  
>> 
>> there are artists who make art specifically directed -against- God.
>> they're still artists. art is not exclusive to Christians. it's
>> pushing the envelope. Carmen isn't pushing the envelope at all.
>> 
>
>But in your original post you said that Carmen IS an artist, a VERY VERY
>BAD ONE!.  So what is it jason, is he an artist or not?  Are artists only
>those who are pushing the envelope?  If yes then the only true artists are
>those who are doing totally "original" material.  That would eliminate ALOT
>of "artists" doing  "unoriginal" material, but in different ways, or by
>your definition is that pushing the envelope too?
>
>I agree that my definition of art is limited.  I do believe that that is
>why God has created us as "creative" people, to ultimately give glory to
>Him, just as His creation declares His glory.  And yes, some people have
>taken that precious gift and mangled it ever so frightfully.
>
>> > If Carmen is being totally truthful to that, then he is a VERY GOOD 
>> > artist, period.  If not, then he is perhaps he is a bad artist.
>> 
>> only if your flawed definition of art is correct.
>
>But not if YOUR definition of art is NOT flawed...
>
>> 
>> > I can't judge his artistry, I don't listen to his music, and I 
>> > don't know his heart, only God does.  Perhaps we should leave it to 
>> > Him to judge all that is good or bad in the Kingdom.
>> 
>> God judges hearts, i judge music. Carmen's music, IMNSHO, sucks.
>																					^^^^^^^^^^^^^^																	^^^^^^
>> 
>> jason
>
>I'm afraid this is the problem.  All of this smacks of intellectual
>snobbery to me.  What's the old saying, Those who can't "do", teach, those
>who can't teach, criticize.    Perhaps you should use your middle name a
>little more often...

Oh, come on my friend, we all know it sucks, so lets not kid ourselves. 
Let's just get on with our lives, happy in the knowledge that it's
pure cheese and cliche and it sucks but, hey, some people like that stuff,
so to each his own. Many people who would never have made it in secular
somehow have a following in christian music. A lot of stuff sucks. I heared
a full-on DISCO song one the Christian radio station this weekend. "Hey!",
I said to myself, "Christian music is catching up! We've just hit the 70'S!
Yay for us!" sheesh.

Art? What's that?

                   --Stacey
Newsgroups: rec.music.christian