HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: black@lester.sybase.com (Chris Black)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: Indications of homosexuality (was Re: How to tell if your son is gay)
Date: 11 Dec 92 19:53:28 GMT

In article <1992Dec9.233913.26632@reed.edu> nelson@reed.edu (Nelson Minar) 
writes:

>What do folks with long hair who shower in the morning do? It takes my
>hair an hour and a half to dry. I'm not going to use a blow dryer. I'm
>not about to wake up an hour and a half early in the morning.

I eventually got it cut off, but . . . the thing to do is wash your hair
in the evening, or whenever it's convenient.  Then you shower without
getting it wet in the morning -- use a shower cap if necessary.

-- Chris
black@sybase.com
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: vin@alumni.cs.colorado.edu (Vincent Cawley)
Subject: Looking for a roommate
Organization: University of Colorado, Boulder
Distribution: boulder
Date: Tue, 15 Dec 1992 00:26:07 GMT

We need a roommate mid-January.  Your rent would be $260 or $270 per month
depending on which room your prefer.  Utilities are extra.
The place is a condominium near Table Mesa and right on the 202 bus route.

Your roommates would be two gay men, a dog and a cat.

I'll be happy to give you more details if you e-mail me.

vin@alumni.colorado.edu
From: tal@plts.uucp (Tom Limoncelli)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: Two threads: women posting and "cures" and its spinoffs
Date: 13 Dec 1992 18:31:41 -0500
Organization: P.L.T.S., North Plainfield, NJ, USA
NNTP-Posting-Host: plts.uucp

In article <Bz1utK.Is6@unix.amherst.edu> twpierce@unix.amherst.edu (Tim Pierce) writes:
>In article <1992Dec10.050028.16644@samba.oit.unc.edu> czmt@gibbs.oit.unc.edu (Season Marie Taylor) writes:

>>In article <1g6f4mINN74a@plts.uucp> tal@plts.uucp (Tom Limoncelli) writes:

>>>Has anyone else found a social construct (or etc.) that encourages
>>>"good" posts?

>>I felt encouraged when people emailed me privately to tell me they
>>appreciated my post...

>I feel even more encouraged when someone replies to me from a post in,
>say, comp.unix.admin, and says "By the way, I read soc.motss a lot,
>and ..." :-)

So maybe the people that want to develop "voting schemes" for rating
articles (discussed in news.futures) are smarter than we thought!

Tom
-- 
Tom Limoncelli -- tal@plts.uucp (home) -- tal@warren.mentorg.com (work)
Heros falling to the ground / like hell's magnet / pulls me down / on my knees
/ I try to please his eyes / his idol eyes. / Jerking motions won't revive him
/ mouth to mount resusitation / I just lay down beside him / and idolize.
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: rdonahue@spdcc.com (Bob Donahue)
Subject: Re: Pittsburg, Pa
Organization: insert anything here
Date: Wed, 16 Dec 1992 14:43:59 GMT

mara@panix.com (Mara Chibnik) writes:
>3.  *There* *is* *no* *Official* *Cabal* *Application*

	Well, (puts nose higher than forehead), that *you* know of!

	Hrmpf!

BBC
P.S. ;-) does this count? huh huh? (wagging tail)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: twpierce@unix.amherst.edu (Tim Pierce)
Subject: Re: Gay Baby Saints (was Re: Accessory que
Organization: Elitist Usenet Administrators, Turkey Division
Date: Fri, 11 Dec 1992 18:10:46 GMT

In article <1992Dec11.044952.1962@news.duc.auburn.edu> jbibb@eng.auburn.edu writes:

>In a bit of nostalgia, I pulled out the ole vinyl recordings of D^2 just this
>very evening.  I've forgotten how BAD records sound compared to CD's.

You're quite wrong there.  Vinyl is inherently a better medium for
music.  The real pain you're hearing arises from comparing Duran Duran
to ... hell, to almost anything else.

-- 
____ Tim Pierce                / 
\  / twpierce@unix.amherst.edu /               Rocks say goodbye.
 \/ (BITnet: TWPIERCE@AMHERST) / 
Xref: sparky soc.motss:52169 soc.bi:16491
From: tal@plts.uucp (Tom Limoncelli)
Newsgroups: soc.motss,soc.bi
Subject: Re: The MOW Platform (was Re: NOTICE - Details...)
Date: 13 Dec 1992 21:01:51 -0500
Organization: P.L.T.S., North Plainfield, NJ, USA
NNTP-Posting-Host: plts.uucp

In article <1992Dec13.223840.20089@netcom.com> solovay@netcom.com (Andrew M. Solovay) writes:

>One problem I have with the platform is that it "demands" some
>things that are ideologically debatable. It says that to support
>GLB rights is to support those things and vice versa. Cases in
>point:

Here's a preview of what I've added to the next rev of the MOW93 FAQ.

12) "These are listed as 'demands'.  Does that mean that people that  
don't agree with a plank must stay home?"  Again, "NO!"  The use of the 
word "demand" is 2 parts historical and 1 part "asking politely for   
civil rights never gets you anywhere".  Don't let one word keep you     
home.  If you are afraid that the word "demands" will scare 
politicians, please suggest a new word.  "A List Of Requests" would be 
laughed out of a congressperson's office. 

>The "reproductive freedom" demand (demand #5). I know many
[...]

This plank will be the most troublesome.  However, people must deal
with the fact that nobody is there for 100% of the platform.  At MOW87
most people didn't know there WAS a platform!  I don't think the
majority will this time either.  The platform is, IMHO, such a small
part of the march.

If you want political reasons why it is included, refer my previous
post.  The legalization of sodomy is based on the same part of the
constitution as freedom of choice.  You overturn that part of the
constitution and you strike down the laws that protect us too.

>The "universal access to health care" demand (demand #2). Some of
>us are against national health care for reasons that have nothing
>to do with gay rights, one way or the other. This demand tells us
>that we are unwelcome in the march.

"universal access to health care" does NOT mean "national health care".
Do you realize that many segments of our community HAVE MONEY FOR
MEDICAL CARE but are denied it anyway?

>way. For this reason (and this reason alone), I won't be in the
>march.
>-- 
>Andrew Solovay    

That's not true.  We're going to kidnap you and force you to go.

Tom

P.S.  Elvis has agreed to help with the kidnapping.
-- 
Tom Limoncelli -- tal@plts.uucp (home) -- tal@warren.mentorg.com (work)
Heros falling to the ground / like hell's magnet / pulls me down / on my knees
/ I try to please his eyes / his idol eyes. / Jerking motions won't revive him
/ mouth to mount resusitation / I just lay down beside him / and idolize.
From: smithw@col.hp.com (Walter Smith)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: Call/Fax/Write Fernandez
Date: 16 Dec 1992 15:35:05 GMT
Organization: Colorado Springs IT Center
NNTP-Posting-Host: fajita19.cs.itc.hp.com

rhayden@oracle.com (Ronald Hayden) writes:
> Let's give Walter some benefit of the doubt here.  He is definitely
> missing a lot of information (which he has admitted), but he's managed
> to keep things on a civil level and to attempt to engage in real
> conversation.  Not an easy thing to do when everyone's lobbing
> negative stuff at you.

I'll second that...

> To Walter:  My apologies for referring to you as if you aren't here,
> and for presuming that your views on this can/will change, given time.
> You'll just have to take it from us:  We've been down this road with
> many people, we've answered the questions and dealt with the situation
> many times, and we know where it does and doesn't lead.
> 
> So keep asking questions, and try to stay away from the cynicism...

Thanks.  I had missed a few of the followups (mostly the cynical ones) 
as I haven't been keeping up with the articles on the subject here in
soc.motss.  I've been trying to redirect the conversation to alt.politics.
homosexual, at the request of some of the folks here.  I have to admit that
some of the responses have made me really consider if it is worth the
effort to try and hear "the other side".  Some of the insinuations I've 
read about me are downright comical; it would seem that attributing 
our ideas onto others is not dependant on sexual orientation.  If nothing
else, maybe it's given me a better feel for how gay people feel when 
they are called "child molester" by a complete stranger.  

Walter
smithw@cs.itc.hp.com

Xref: sparky soc.motss:52452 alt.politics.homosexuality:8000
Newsgroups: soc.motss,alt.politics.homosexuality
From: rhayden@oracle.com (Ronald Hayden)
Subject: Re: Call/Fax/Write Fernandez
Organization: Oracle Corporation, Belmont, Ca.
Date: Tue, 15 Dec 1992 19:56:37 GMT
X-Disclaimer: This message was written by an unauthenticated user
              at Oracle Corporation.  The opinions expressed are those
              of the user and not necessarily those of Oracle.

In article <1gbg23INN1or@hp-col.col.hp.com> smithw@col.hp.com (Walter Smith) writes:

   What exactly must be done for things to be *OK* with you?  If I accept 
   your right to peacefully be whatever you want to be, but don't find it
   'natural' or 'normal' or whatever you want to call it, is that OK? 
   Or do I have to think a certain way for it to be OK with you?

Well, that's good.  Seriously.  That you don't want us to be burned at
the stake or something.

But don't expect us to whoop for joy when we're still considered
"unnatural" and "abnormal".

Of course we're working for acceptance.  Tolerance is an important
first step, but it is only the first step...

--

  - Ronald Hayden

    ----------------------------------------------------------------
   | Documentation Manager, Oracle Toolkit Group                    |
   | Co-chair of Oracle Lambda, Oracle's Gay/Lesbian/Bisexual group |
   | Writer, magician, and various other things                     |
    ----------------------------------------------------------------
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: czmt@gibbs.oit.unc.edu (Season Marie Taylor)
Subject: Re: Ellen Degeneres (was Re: Margaret Cho Alert!!)
Organization: University of North Carolina
Date: Fri, 11 Dec 1992 19:50:25 GMT

In article <168BAAB00.TMCCART3@ua1vm.ua.edu> TMCCART3@ua1vm.ua.edu writes:

>Because I am gay I would kill to have sex with Ellen Degeneres, and
>at the risk of starting another round of those dreadful is-she-or-
>isn't-she threads, is she or isn't she? And what about Paula Pound-
>stone?

I want to know, too!!  

(Paula Poundstone--*sigh of admiration*)

season


-- 
                     ____
Season Taylor        \  / "we are one body/we are one spirit/one breath/one
czmt@gibbs.oit.unc.edu\/   dream of life and death/.../one sex"
(yes, as in the 4)                          -sophie b. hawkins
From: nelson@reed.edu (Nelson Minar)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: Drooling over the "Europa, Europa" guy.
Date: 20 Dec 92 22:47:13 GMT
Article-I.D.: reed.1992Dec20.224713.6385
Reply-To: nelson@reed.edu (Nelson Minar)
Organization: Reed College, Portland, OR

In article <1992Dec20.172546.14301@nstn.ns.ca> daniel@nstn.ns.ca (Daniel MacKay) writes:
>I didn't *see* Europa- I checked with the rep theatre that I didn't
>see it at.  I saw "Europa, Europa", which was known in the States as
>"Zentropa."  Sigh.

Actually, what you didn't see was "Europa, Europa". You saw Europa,
which was shown in the states at Zentropa. (And which was, btw, a
wonderful movie).

ObMotss: I saw a good French Canadian film yesterday, "Salut, Victor".
It's about two men in a retirement home, one who is very out, one who
has never quite reconciled his homosexuality. It's quite poignant.

Unfortunately, the production quality is pretty poor - the music is
bad, the camera shakes in some scenes. But the script is great, and
the acting is good, and the production quality isn't all *that* bad.
                __
nelson@reed.edu \/        You stupid vulgar greedy ugly American death sucker
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: paul@psych.toronto.edu (Paul Hastings)
Subject: Re: Hi Honey, I'm home (GKTT85)
Organization: Department of Psychology, University of Toronto
Date: Wed, 16 Dec 1992 19:12:56 GMT

In article <1992Dec15.220834.1@acad.drake.edu> jf0002@acad.drake.edu writes:
>Hi Everybody,
>
>I'm home, I'm alive.  There is a GOD after all.  This is Keith formerly
>from Mankato, MN, now DM, IA.  <--have fun  :)

Give a Canuck a break!! Minnesota, and Des Moines, Iowa?  

>Second note:  Where is everyone?  Brian of Toronto, The Cohens of New England,
                                   BJ of TO is lurking.  He tends to post the
                                   odd scream or two when people forget that
                                   there ever was a con in Toronto.
>              The bears of Motss.4 in toronto?
>
>              Let me see who is here:  Amanda, Cramer, Furr, Jess, ....
>                            
>              OKAY, OKAY, there is just more people on the net. (YAHOOO!!)
>
>Third note:   KKenney of Southeast coast?,  Here is a hug from me.  I hope
>              things went okay.
>
>Fourth note:  Please add The Principal Financial Group of Des Moines to the
>              list of those that have sexual orientation policies against
>    	      discrimination and the list of those who extend benefits to
>              spouses of nontraditional households(the pc term escapes me).
How close is Ames to DM?  I just heard about a vaguely interesting post-doc
program there, and if the cash is right and there's more than corn (which,
I must admit, does have its uses) around, I may consider it.

>Keith Cheetham
>formerly gktt85@vax1.mankato.msus.who.cares.account.now.closed

Welcome back, Keith.
-paul, formerly anon


-- 
Aunt Em,                                 I think we better go get some-
     Hate you.  Hate Kansas.             thing to eat before we end up 
     Taking the dog.                     like the Donner party.
                        Dot.                             Buster Bunny.
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: allyn@halcyon.com (mark allyn)
Subject: Re: Parking (was Re: Castro Street (Re: Two threads ... ))
Organization: The 23:00 News and Mail Service
Date: Mon, 14 Dec 1992 02:34:44 GMT

You talk about cruising?

Why cruise in your car? Why not do it on your bicycle? That way, you
will be seen! And if you see something interesting, it is far easiar
to pull over on a bicycle than in a car.

Moreover, here in Seattle, there are areas with anti cruising
ordinances. These anti cruising ordinances do not include bicycles.
Moreover, some of these area are posted with signs stating that cars
must yeald to bicyclists!

There is an area on the shores of Lake Washington that useded to be
very heavy with cruising in automobiles. The area was posted for no
automobile cruising and with signs stating that bicycles have the
right of way. Now, the local bicycle club sponsors a weekly bicycle
cruise in this area and it is all legal and sanctioned.

My most interesting experience was on haloween when I put on a bathing
suit, and over that, a jacket and pants that I made out of soft clear
plastic and cruised around town on my bike. It attracted alot of
interest, more than if I did it in a car, and the police did not
care!!

Mark
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: manz@ee.ualberta.ca (Brett {Druid Queen} Manz)
Subject: Re: Legos
Organization: University Of Alberta, Edmonton Canada
Date: Tue, 15 Dec 1992 07:24:31 GMT

In <18130@autodesk.COM> mickw@autodesk.com (Mick Washbrook) writes:

>In article <manz.724324699@ee.ualberta.ca>, manz@ee.ualberta.ca (Brett {Druid Queen} Manz) writes:
>> 
>> My brother, who is about as breeder as they get, was similarly
>> disposed towards Lego, but not nearly as adept as I at its use.
>> He abandoned Lego some years ago (bequeathing his entire collection
>> to me!)

>Pah! Lego--pure kid's stuff. If you really wanted to "wow" people, you
>should have had a Meccano set, preferably a 7, 8, 9, or (gasp), a 10.
>You could build *really* complicated gear mechanisms, clutch different-
>ials, and so on. 

You can do that with the new Lego Technical sets.  Build cars
with working transmissions and rack and pinion steering.

>Of course, I meant "you" in the colloquial sense: even
>though the box clearly said "For expert engineers aged 10 and over,"
>even at the age of 21 I could never build anything that had *any*
>moving parts. I must be engineering-impaired. I believe that in America,
>they were called "erector" (blush) sets, or summut like that. 

In Canada it's still Meccano.  My other brother had Meccano, with which
he managed to build some interesting devices.  I never really fot into
it as much as I did Lego.

>Do Meccano
>sets still exit? My brother stole mine years ago; he's probably waiting
>to sell it for $500, along with my Dinky "Captain Scarlet" toys.
>Bastard.

I *think they are still available, but don't quote me on it.

-- 
---------------------------------+-------------------------------------
 My opinions are my own.         |  You can't be proud of who you are
 The truth belongs to everyone.  |  if you're ashamed of what you are.
   I can't even *think straight! |    Cruise Men, Not Missiles! - anon
From: kkenny@gems.vcu.edu
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: Pittsburg, Pa
Date: 13 Dec 92 16:44:42 -0400
Organization: Medical College of Virginia

In article <1g70nuINNqet@mizar.usc.edu>, adolphso@mizar.usc.edu (adolphson) writes:
>[lots of ranting and raving that was _enough_ once, let alone
>twice by my quoting it here]

Arne, if you were a dog, you'd definitely be a schnauzer!

Having been an extremely infrequent poster here for almost 5 years,
one thing that _is_ very clear to me about your posts is that you allow
yourself your opinions and others your opinions, without leaving 
anyone else room for _their_ opinions.  It gets tiring, hon.

Not exactly the way I wanted to resplash in motss, but here it is
anyway.

Karen
From: LYAA136@UTXVM.CC.UTEXAS.EDU
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Lesbian mothers
Date: 14 Dec 92 13:39:32 GMT
Organization: The University of Texas at Austin

My partner and I are considering having a baby.  We'd like to hear
from anyone who's conceived through donor insemination, either
with a known or unknown donor.  If you  knew the donor, do you
co-parent, did he agree to give up parental rights, do you have
any sort of legal agreement?  If you used a sperm bank, did you
have any hassles because you're lesbian, or have you encountered
any other sorts of problems as a result of using an anonymous
donor?  Any experiences at all that you'd care to share.  I'd
appreciate it if you could respond to me privately.  Thanks for
your help --
Marjie  (LYAA136@utxvm.cc.utexas.edu)
 
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: solovay@netcom.com (Andrew M. Solovay)
Subject: Re: The MOW Platform (was Re: NOTICE - Details...)
Organization: People's Front of Judea
Date: Wed, 16 Dec 1992 00:20:47 GMT

In article <18135@autodesk.COM> owen@autodesk.com (D. Owen Rowley) writes:
>In article <1992Dec14.183044.13215@watson.ibm.com>, jakec@ralvmm.vnet.ibm.com writes:
>> with respect to my actual support of the platform, i
>> suppose it helps to understand that the same reasoning used
>> by racists, sexists, and anti-abortionists is also applied
>> to gay civil rights.  what does the statement "no one is
>> free until we are *all* free" mean?  it means that no one's
>> individual freedom is guaranteed while there exists the
>> potential to limit anyone's individual freedom.
>
>Quota based anti-discrimination legislation limits individual freedom.
>Do you see how reverse discrimination codified into law flys in the face
>of the NOIFUWAAF position? 

This is an unfair characterization of the MOW platform. The MOW
platform says, and I quote:

"6.  We demand an end to racial and ethnic discrimination in all
forms. [sixth demand quoted in full]"

Thus, the MOW platform is clearly against all forms of
affirmative action, since giving preference in hiring or
admissions based on race is clearly "racial discrimination",
however benign in intent or effect.
-- 
Andrew Solovay    

"SILENCE = QUIET"
                --Girljock Magazine
Newsgroups: soc.motss,alt.politics.homosexuality
From: nelson@reed.edu (Nelson Minar)
Subject: Re: The word 'homophobia'
Organization: Reed College, Portland, OR
Date: Fri, 18 Dec 1992 07:57:16 GMT
Reply-To: nelson@reed.edu (Nelson Minar)

I basically agree with the argument that "homophobia" should not be
used to describe all cases of a dislike for queers. I use "homophobia"
imprecisely sometimes myself, usually when I'm talking too fast.

"heterosexism" is another useful word. It seems like one has to start
using questionable constructs like "homohatred" to really be precise.

There is at least one case where "homophobia", as in "fear of
homosexuals", is exactly right: to describe people who recognize their
own homosexual tendencies (even mild tendencies) but are afraid of
them, and so they take out their fear or prove their straightness by
harassing/hurting queers. This response is motivated by fear, fear of
their own sexuality.

But this is only one motivation for oppression of queers. There are
plenty of other ones, probably more than any single word could capture.
                __
nelson@reed.edu \/                   Nothing is true; everything is permitted
Xref: sparky soc.motss:52495 soc.bi:16592
From: owen@autodesk.com (D. Owen Rowley)
Newsgroups: soc.motss,soc.bi
Subject: Re: The MOW Platform (was Re: NOTICE - Details...)
Date: 15 Dec 92 20:33:27 GMT
Followup-To: soc.motss

In article <1992Dec14.183044.13215@watson.ibm.com>, jakec@ralvmm.vnet.ibm.com writes:
> with respect to my actual support of the platform, i
> suppose it helps to understand that the same reasoning used
> by racists, sexists, and anti-abortionists is also applied
> to gay civil rights.  what does the statement "no one is
> free until we are *all* free" mean?  it means that no one's
> individual freedom is guaranteed while there exists the
> potential to limit anyone's individual freedom.

Quota based anti-discrimination legislation limits individual freedom.
Do you see how reverse discrimination codified into law flys in the face
of the NOIFUWAAF position? Even though the intentions of quota based
anti-discrimination legislation are good, the method lead to more
discrimination. This is why I say that our efforts to end discrimination
need to start from the premise that no discrimination means NO
discrimnination.  I also think its important to follow up with a clear
understanding that with freedom comes responsibility.

The way I deal with this in my own life is to practice giving the same
level of freedom I take for myself, and to expect the same lavel of
responsibilty from those I interact with as I hold myself to.
I don't claim to be perfect, I don't claim that I never screw up and loose
my handle on these practices. I do try to, process everything I say with
these principles in mind however.

Housing is one area that I am curently looking at with great interest.

I cannot see the logic in legislating away a property owners freedom to
rent or sell that property in accordance with their will.
If I had a two family home, and was living in one half - renting out
the other - I would damn well want to be very picky about who I rented to.
In good conscience I could not deny another the right to be picky as well.

LUX ./. owen

--
D. Owen Rowley {uunet,fernwood,sun}!autodesk!owen

  " It will be a cold March 17th that I celebrate the imposition of
	Romes rule, on Pagan Ireland. Erin go ppphhhhhttttttt! "
Xref: sparky soc.motss:52606 alt.politics.homosexuality:8023
From: smithw@col.hp.com (Walter Smith)
Newsgroups: soc.motss,alt.politics.homosexuality
Subject: Re: Call/Fax/Write Fernandez
Date: 16 Dec 1992 13:58:53 GMT
Organization: Colorado Springs IT Center
NNTP-Posting-Host: fajita19.cs.itc.hp.com

rhayden@oracle.com (Ronald Hayden) writes:
> But don't expect us to whoop for joy when we're still considered
> "unnatural" and "abnormal".
> 
> Of course we're working for acceptance.  Tolerance is an important
> first step, but it is only the first step...

With "you can't please everyone" in mind:

Do you accept religion's "right" (for lack of a better word) to teach 
that homosexuality is an "abomination" (I think that's the word I've
heard used) against God, and is therefore immoral and evil? 

Walter