From: tbn@UTXVM.CC.UTEXAS.EDU (Tor Neilands)
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.psycgrad
Subject: Sexism, etc.
Date: 12 Nov 92 18:21:40 GMT
              <PSYCGRAD@UOTTAWA.BITNET>
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU

Kenneth White writes:

>===================================
>
>Date:         Tue, 10 Nov 1992 01:22:38 -0500
>From:         "Kenneth V. White" <kwhite@WAM.UMD.EDU>
>Subject:      No, no!  Don't do it Jesse!
>
>C'mon fellas, don't give in!  Resist, dammnit!  You can do it!
>
>First we feel guilt, then apologize, then further public self-flaggelation,
>and then.... (horrors!), we'll all start reading Iron John, beating
>drums, donning loincloths, and hugging each other.  Or, in the absence
>of that, we'll start hugging trees.  Don't give in!  I have faith!
>
>Still quite confident that Anita LIED,
>Kenn
>kwhite@wam.umd.edu

and Margaret Joppa writes:

>------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>Date:         Tue, 10 Nov 1992 15:31:37 EST
>From:         "(Margaret Joppa)" <joppa@PSYCH.PURDUE.EDU>
>Subject:      Re:  No, no!  Don't do it Jesse!
>
>I think it would be great if men ran around in loincloths beating drums!
>And I think we all need to hug a tree now and then.
>M. Joppa

I tend to agree with Margaret's sentiments, especially her last sentence.
What goes around, comes around when it comes to humankind abusing
nature--believe me, either we'll pay for it, or our children's children
will pay for it. I know about this, having seen firsthand some of the
impacts on the ecosystem of the steady destruction of Northern California's
douglas fir and redwood forests--we can start with lowered yearly riparian
creek flow and a concomitant rise in water temperature of said creeks, for
starters.

As for Robert Bly and the "navel-gazers"---if they want to spend their free
time beating drums and bewailing the fact that they have lost their
masculinity (or sensitivity, or whatever), who cares? I mean, lots of men
spend their weekends watching football. Others are weekend athletes. Others
do research. Others read books and watch movies. Others sleep. All of these
are hobbies and all, with the possible exception of publicly-funded
research, are all paid for by these men out of pocket and they are for all
practical intents and purposes hobbies. I'd go so far as to argue that
pounding on drums and male-bonding rituals could be considered to be a
notch above watching football all weekend long because the former involves
at least some self-examination, however minimal, while the latter does not.
However, that's just a personal opinion, and if these men are enjoying
their hobbies and not harming someone else, what's the harm? Maybe I'm
missing something by not feeling ashamed by the actions of men who pound
drums and who read _Iron John_ *or* by men who are welded to the remote
control all weekend long. I figure it's their business and if it makes the
happier members of society, who am I to argue with it? If it were upset by
what these men were doing, I might ask myself, "Now why am I getting so
bent out of shape about this issue, anyway?" If one asks oneself this kind
of question, the answers to it can be quite intriguing, surprising, and
downright insightful.

As always, I'm happy to see such downright interesting discussions going on
here on Psycgrad!

cheers,

Tor


Tor Neilands
Systems Analyst
Statistical Services Group
Computation Center
University of Texas at Austin
Austin, TX  78712

Phone: (512)-471-3241, Ext. 263

Internet:  TBN@Utxvm.cc.utexas.edu
___________________________________________________

"Life is too short to self-verify"   --- Shawn McNulty

"Two roads diverged in a yellow wood and I, I took
 the road less traveled by, and that has made all the
 difference".                                 --- Robert Frost
___________________________________________________

Disclaimer:  All of the views expressed above are solely
those of the author. Any relationship between my own
views and those of the University of Texas and/or The
Computation Center at the University of Texas are
due merely to regression to the mean.
____________________________________________________
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