HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: lmann@jjmhome.UUCP (Laurie Mann)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: Gay-bashing (was: Re: Private...)
Date: 10 Jan 93 13:14:31 GMT

In article <27760@sybase.sybase.com>, black@lester.sybase.com (Chris Black) writes:
> In article <C0GAEL.917.2@cs.cmu.edu>, zitsky+@CS.CMU.EDU (Mark Ryan Miller) writes:
> |> Having been through hell in school, for non-sexual reasons, I'd like to
> |> hear from other people about their _response_ to gay bashing.

I think it's incredibly offensive to insult people that you do not
know for surface reasons.  (Hell, I'll insult people I DO know if the
situation warrants it, but other than Sadam Hussein and Pat Robertson,
I avoid insulting complete strangers.  (Well, I recently did say I thought
anyone who voted in favor of either Prop 2 or Prop 9 was a homophobe, but
most of them probably wouldn't consider that an insult.))

> |> Why don't people who are targeted frequently, move to another city
> |> or neighborhood?  Why stay where you keep getting harrassed?
> This sin't about gay-bashing, but about the hassling and threat of rape
> I'm subject to as a woman.  There's a limit to how much I'm willing to
> restrict my activities to avoid them, because what I figure is that if I
> let the bastards make me stay home, they've already won.  I'm as
> oppressed if I give things up to avoid being hassled as I am if I'm hassled.

Chris expressed this VERY well.  In terms of restricted movements, you are
only as much of a victim as you will let yourself be.  I sometimes get
harassed for wearing shorts or a bathing suit in the summer because I'm
fat.  But since I LIKE dressing that way in warm weather, I don't let the
opinions of complete strangers bother me.  

As a woman who often goes to the city alone and after dark, I may behave in
an overly paranoid fashion---keep looking around, walking near lights,
avoiding alleys and checking my car then locking it as soon as I'm inside.
But I've never had a problem and I pretty much do what I want to do.

*     NeXT: lmann@vineland.pubs.stratus.com * GEnie:  Laurie.Mann     *
*  In Germany they first came for the Communists, and I didn't speak  *
*  because I wasn't a Communist.  Then they came for the Jews, and I  *
*  didn't speak because I wasn't a Jew. Then they came for the trade  *  
*  unionists, and I didn't speak because I wasn't a trade unionist..  *
*Then they came for me---and by that time no one was left to speak up.*
*       Martin Niemoeller     Why to March on Washington, 4/93        *
From: Furr@cup.portal.com (George Dalton Madison)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: crabs (was Re: Changing standards of female beauty)
Date: Sat,  9 Jan 93 19:30:21 PST
Organization: The Portal System (TM)
  <1993Jan9.153926.747@spdcc.com> <73264@cup.portal.com>
  <1993Jan9.235948.29740@thinkage.on.ca>

Ken Dykes writes:
>normally, you go in, ask for Kwell or whatever by name, swift transaction
>and you are out. most wont recognize the drugname, others who do would assume
>these are "simply" crabs we are talking about...
>now imagine...
>biker looking dude (approx a B8 f+) wanders in to drugmart towards pharmacist.
>accessorize biker with leather and helmet in hand.
>a couple other customers are within earshot.
>biker says in not-a-wisper to pharmacist essentially:
>  i have crabs that _just wont_ die.

[hee hee hee hee hee hee....]

>i know it's a silly insecurity at a drugstore, but the way i handle
>insecurity is theatrically.
>i still dont know if the pharmacist's suppressed grin was at my statement
>itself, or the fact she had a much better view of the other customer's
>reactions.

It may be silly, but I went through the same thing the time I
had to buy the Nix. Of course, I didn't have to have the
consultation with the pharmacist -- I just browsed the boxes on
the shelf, trying not to be noticed looking at *that* *stuff*.

>of course i continued with more details of my problem before the Nix
>recommendation. (ie: kwellada failed, the beard/head were the persistent 
>areas, i suspected the nits)

"Suspected"?  You make it sound like a murder mystery.  Come to
think of it, it was.... "Why can't I *MURDER* these little
bastards???!?!?!"   ;-) ;-) ;-)

 
() Nobody ever forgets where he buried a hatchet.
()      -- Kin Hubbard
-----
[> George D. Madison | NBCS: B8f+t+w-e+s+k+a!cv | Just say NO to razors! <]
[> It's a BEAR thing -- you wouldn't understand. <|> furr@cup.portal.com <]
From: mattm@apple.com (Matthew Melmon)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: Wil Wheaton at MacWorld!!!!!
Date: 11 Jan 93 17:41:23 GMT
Followup-To: soc.motss
Organization: Apple Computer, Inc.

In article <1993Jan10.234115.27880@dvorak.amd.com>, tdbear@dvorak.amd.com
(Thomas D. Barrett) wrote:
> 
> In article <mattm-090193162226@mcmelmon.apple.com> mattm@apple.com (Matthew Melmon) writes:
> :)> It's moments like this (Wesley's MacWorld expose') that I get down on
> :)> my knees and thank the powers that be that I work in a Intel(tm)
> :)> compatible world :)
> :)
> :)Hah!  I pick my nose at you, you Milli-Vanilli-of-the-microchip-man,
> :)you.  Your taste in young lovelies is as your taste in chip
> :)architectures - how do you zay in Amerique, "Like piss?"
> 
> Well... just for that I won't talk to you about our Moto deals in the
> works.  AND, just forget about me sending you that special GIF that came
> through a sub-space channel last week from Data (He captured Wesley
> and... well, you don't get to see it or hear about it).  So there!
> You, you, vegesexual you! I even bet you are one of those GREEN
> apples!  ICK!

Ohhhh,  *X* is sorry... Sorry *X* - send *X* nasty pictures...
Michael Hennahane send *X* nasty picture, and Mike Batchelor,
too - perhaps has something to do with name Michael?

*X* definitely *not* vegitarian - likes big hunks of juicy
meat - does *X*  Why *X* talking like this?  Because *X* just
re-read Elfquest...

*X*
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: nelson@reed.edu (Nelson Minar)
Subject: Re: Maria Montez vs Burl Ives, or Lighten Up a Little, Folks
Organization: Reed College, Portland, OR
Date: Thu, 7 Jan 1993 07:22:42 GMT
Reply-To: nelson@reed.edu (Nelson Minar)

In article <1993Jan6.040527.7765@spdcc.com> dyer@spdcc.com (Steve Dyer) suggests to Furr about Arne:
>Maybe you could try reading what Arne has to say without prejudice.

what, and make us miss all the fun?!
                __
nelson@reed.edu \/    All that God wanted to be was just another normal deity
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: albrigh@bronze.ucs.indiana.edu (thomas g albright)
Subject: Re: Arne Adolphson, Mormon At Large
Organization: The Cabal
Date: Tue, 12 Jan 1993 20:16:53 GMT

In article <1iv7r9INN6io@mizar.usc.edu> adolphso@mizar.usc.edu (adolphson) writes:
>In article <1993Jan12.123541.5095@sun0.urz.uni-heidelberg.de> 
>gsmith@lauren.iwr.uni-heidelberg.de (Gene W. Smith) writes:
>> In article <1ishnaINNckn@mizar.usc.edu> adolphso@mizar.usc.edu
>> (adolphson) writes:
>>
>> >*Mormon* at large?  Heavens.
>>
>> "Moron" did not seem very apt, so I changed it.
>
>I think I'd rather be called a "moron" than a "Mormon",
>but I appreciate the sentiment.  I think.


I'd rather that a Mormon thought me a moron than a moron thought me a Mormon
(to paraphrase a sig I've seen).

-Tom Albright

:-) :-) :-) :-) :-) :-) :-) :-) :-) :-) :-) :-) :-) :-) :-) :-) :-) :-) :-) :-)
|                                   \                                         |
| INTERNET: albrigh@ucs.indiana.edu  \    I believe in reincarnation, and     |
|   BITNET: albrigh@iubacs           /\   I'm coming back as a pansy.  AGAIN! |
|                                   /  \                                      |
(-: (-: (-: (-: (-: (-: (-: (-: (-: (-: (-: (-: (-: (-: (-: (-: (-: (-: (-: (-:
From: mls@panix.com (Michael Siemon)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: H20, Greehouse, meteorology (was Re: kommotion...)
Date: 11 Jan 93 14:35:22 GMT
Organization: Panix Public Access Internet & Unix, NYC

In article <1993Jan11.064344.2758@netcom.com> jfh@netcom.com (Jack Hamilton) writes:
>In article <1993Jan11.032808.8589@spdcc.com> rdonahue@spdcc.com (Bob Donahue) writes:
>>In article <C0ns5p.Do4@panix.com> mls@panix.com (Michael Siemon) writes:
>>
>>	[asks questions about solar irradiance variations and their
>>effect ont he solar-terrestrial interaction...]
>>
>>	Yeah, I took it to e-amil... :-)
>
>Too bad.  I was interested in the answer to that. 

Actually, I wasn't asking about irradiance variations (though that is
relevant and I'd like information in addition to the Milakovitch work
on correlating our orbital element variations with glacial cycles).
The relevance to my remarks is that *if* insolation differences drive
the temperature cycle, and water vapor in the atmostphere cycles in
response to this, it is unclear what the relation of ANY greenhouse
gasses might be in the long term.  Do either or both of H2O or CO2
*moderate* the Milankovitch cycles? exaggerate them? what?

Bob may be right that soc.motss is not a good place for this --
perhaps we move it to sci.geology or sci.astro?  (again, I am
NOT doing this out of a political agenda or to controvert BBC's
political stance -- I would need more information to *have* an
informed opinion on all of this.)
-- 
Michael L. Siemon	"We honour founders of these starving cities
mls@panix.com		 Whose honour is the image of our sorrow ...
			 They built by rivers and at night the water
			 Running past the windows comforted their sorrow."
From: ac999265@umbc3.umbc.edu (ac999265)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: Coors heir comes out
Followup-To: soc.motss
Date: 11 Jan 1993 17:47:53 -0500
Organization: University of Maryland, Baltimore County Campus
Distribution: world
NNTP-Posting-Host: umbc8.umbc.edu

In article <1993Jan10.223921.29661@reed.edu> nelson@reed.edu 
   (Nelson Minar) quotes an article from _Just Out_:
>---
>Coors heir comes out
>
>Dallas Coors, the 75-year-old heir to the Coors Beer fortune, came out
>as a gay man in an interview on the Boston cable-TV show "Between
>Takes". During the interview, filmed at his summer home in Providence,
>RI, Coors talked of being encouraged by friends, including an unnamed
>congressman, to write his autobiography, which would be about "living
>in a world where that type of thing [homosexuality] is totally
>unacceptable," from 1950 through the 1970s.

I don't mean to make light of the big step this man has just taken,
but am I reading this correctly?  The *heir* is 75 already?  How the 
hell old are his parents?  

Miriam
now at ac999265@umbc8.umbc.edu


Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: jarvis@psych.toronto.edu (Brian Jarvis)
Subject: Re: Should I be doing this?
Organization: Department of Psychology, University of Toronto
Date: Tue, 12 Jan 1993 16:56:07 GMT

In article <C0qo4z.IE0@panix.com> mara@panix.com (Mara Chibnik) writes:
>
>jarvis@psych.toronto.edu (Brian Jarvis) writes:
>
> >It's a pity the Cabal *definitely* *does* *not* *exist*; I wouldn't mind
> >serving under an organization run by Mara.
>
>It's clear he's never tried.  "An organization run by Mara" is a
>contradiction in terms...

How about "an anarchy created by Mara"?  "Chaos inspired by Mara"?
It sounds like great fun.  B{)

>But you're all saying lovely things about me.  Thanks.

It would be hard not to.  And you're welcome.

Brian
-- 

Brian A. Jarvis,          Rm. 4026, Sidney Smith Hall, Dept. of Psychology,
jarvis@psych.toronto.edu  University of Toronto, Toronto, Ontario, Canada
System Administrator      M5S 1A1  (416) 978-3948
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: med50003@nusunix1.nus.sg (WANSAICHEONG KHIN-LIN)
Subject: Re: Why not cure homosexuality?
Organization: National University of Singapore
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1 PL6]
Date: Fri, 8 Jan 1993 04:40:27 GMT

Does the cure have to be a shout? Or would a scream work ? :)

gervais

Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: coren@speed.osf.org (Robert Coren)
Subject: Re: Nominations for best Men's cologne
Organization: Open Software Foundation
Date: Wed, 6 Jan 1993 16:22:07 GMT

In article <1993Jan6.103934.7243@macc.wisc.edu>, anderson@macc.wisc.edu (Jess Anderson) writes:
> Some essential
> oils are almost unbelievably costly.  The ones you see in
> places like Crabtree and Evelyn are just the most common
> ones, and most of them are a couple bucks (under $5) per
> dram.

Now to figure the profit on perfumes based on these essential oils we
only need to know what the dilution factor is, and how much the
diluents cost. And how much a dram is, which I can never remember.

On the other hand, anyone willing to pay $250/oz really doesn't care
what it costs, or how it got that way, do they?
From: adolphso@mizar.usc.edu (adolphson)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: Nominations for best Men's cologne
Date: 6 Jan 1993 15:58:04 -0800
Organization: University of Southern California, Los Angeles, CA
NNTP-Posting-Host: mizar.usc.edu

In article <1993Jan6.235054.2997@PacBell.COM> 
rjwill6@PacBell.COM (Rod Williams) writes:
|
|    ..."this most excellent canopy, the air, look you, this
|    brave o'erhanging firmament, this majestical roof fretted
|    with golden fire, why, it appears no other thing to me
|    but a foul and pestilent congregation of vapors.  What a
|    piece of work is a man!  How noble in reason! how
|    infinite in faculty! in form, in moving, how express and
|    admirable! in action how like an angel!  in apprehension
|    how like a god!"

Ah, stick it up your Coriolanus.

Arne
From: mattm@apple.com (Matthew Melmon)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: Marky M. and Vanity Fair
Date: 5 Jan 93 16:27:22 GMT
Followup-To: soc.motss
Organization: Apple Computer, Inc.

In article <1993Jan5.074416.25926@leland.Stanford.EDU>,
prufrock@leland.Stanford.EDU (Scot N Gibson) wrote:

> I find it pretty ironic that there is a shopping center on Stanford
> land that no student could ever possibly afford.  The only thing I
> ever went to was the Woolworths, and they closed it.  Now I just go to
> sales at Macy's.  

Well, Boopsie, I can't afford to shop their, either.  But it gets
better:  The Center - perhaps amongst the toniest in the nation -
pays *rent* to *Stanford* on the upteen acres it uses, and yours
is *still* the most expensive school on this, the planet Earth...

*X*
From: cjlee@netcom.com (Caroline Jean Lee)
Subject: Re: race based fetishes
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services  (408 241-9760 guest) 
Date: Sat, 9 Jan 1993 11:12:35 GMT

In article <thaaang.726492026@cwis> thaaang@cwis.unomaha.edu (John Dorrance) writes:
>Thank you, Caroline. I have one, question, though; is it wrong for
>someone to have been initially attracted to you because of your
>race and the connotations it has been given if they have since found
>other, more substantial reasons to love you, and your race is no
>longer the factor it once was? How does being attracted to someone
>for their race differ from being attracted to someone for other
>physical features?

I am not sure "wrong" and "right" are the terms I've been thinking in
here, so this may be a roundabout answer to your question:

The difference for me, between being attracted to someone for their
race and being attracted to them for, say their mustache or their
bubble butt, is that race carries a lot of associations, stereotypes,
and other baggage that many other physical features do not.  Race is a
loaded category in our society.

You speak of someone being attracted to me becuase of my race and
because of its connotations.  Let's run through some of the
better-known connotations of "Asianness" here: Exotic, Other, Passive,
Flower/Blossom, traditional obedient female (rather than liberated
feminist), or, in the case of gay men, submissive.  Not going to be
rebellious--the model minority, after all.  

When a person makes assumptions about me based on my race, and associations
that they carry about my race, I find it demeaning and hurtful, and yes,
it's racist. It's true that they can work past the baggage that they carry,
but personally, I don't care to help them work through it, not as a lover
at least.

The other possibility is that I will be seen as some kind of cultural
resource for people who are "really into" Asian cultures and the
"exoticism" of it, and that they will try to use me to immerse
themselves in it because they think it's cool.  More generally, there
are white people who are into people of color and the cultures of
people of color, and try to use people of color to "colorize" their
lives--put a little or a lot of ethnic "spice" in their lives.  I
think this is just as objectifying.

Caroline
From: tdbear@dvorak.amd.com (Thomas D. Barrett)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: MOW *Events*?
Date: 10 Jan 93 23:21:41 GMT
Organization: Advanced Micro Devices, Inc.; Austin, Texas

In article <1993Jan9.235823.14938@flood.com> tom@flood.com (Tom Chatt) writes:
>I plan to go out for a week, but I don't know whether I should be
>out for the week before or the week after. Anybody have any info?

If it is anything like the Quilt events, I suspect that there will be
things happening during the week before and especially on the Friday
and Saturday before.  There will probably also be events Monday, but
suspect they will trail-off fast. 

I plan on coming out just for the weekend because of work loads, but
hope to see as many people as possible.  I'm hoping to stay with
friends from K'zoo and hopefully will be able to march under the
National Organization of Gay and Lesbian Scientists and Technical
Professionals banner (if appropriate and if we have enough members
there).

I think neither me nor my friends have too much to spend on shopping
(but those malls are GREAT!) and entertainment, but I do plan to treat
my hosts (private stay) a dinner or two for their hospitality.  So I
hope that stuff is indeed happening... with Brothers Bill and Al in
office, the mood should be far from sad.

-- 
|Tom Barrett (TDBear), Sr. Engineer|tom.barrett@amd.com|v:512-462-6856 |
|AMD PCD MS-520 | 5900 E. Ben White|Austin, TX  78741  |f:512-462-5155 |
|"No is yes, And we're all free" ---Tracy Chapman, "Why?"              |
|My views are my own and may not be the same as the company of origin  |
From: roger@quantime.co.uk (Roger Phillips)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: A not-so-cheery coming out story
Date: 11 Jan 93 19:35:11 GMT
Reply-To: roger@quantime.co.uk (Roger Phillips)
Organization: Quantime Ltd, London (software for market research)

In article <1993Jan11.023510.24076@Princeton.EDU>,
spencer@ernie.princeton.edu (S. Spencer Sun) writes:
> It's worse to have something (or think you have something)
> and end up losing it, than never to have had it at all.

In this case, I disagree.
In the short term, it may appear that the loss is worse
than the never-having(-thought-one)-had,
but I'd hope that from the experience one would learn
better to identify what one has.

[That's probably gibberish
to anyone who hasn't been following this thread,
and possibly to some who have.]

-- 
Roger Phillips                            roger@quantime.co.uk
"*putz* n. (U.S.) in Pennsylvanian Dutch homes, a representation
of the Nativity traditionally placed under a Christmas tree"
-- Chambers English Dictionary (1988)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: anderson@macc.wisc.edu (Jess Anderson)
Subject: Re: How This Man/Boy Got Some
Organization: Madison Academic Computing Center, UW-Madison
Date: Sat, 9 Jan 93 02:25:37 GMT


In article <ByxJ15.6Jz.1@cs.cmu.edu> tmohler+@cs.cmu.edu
(Tim Mohler) writes:

>The other week there was a thread about men not "getting it."

(The context was insisting on male-specific pronouns.)

>I thought about it a lot, reliving some of the crucial
>points in my short journey in this issue.

>Jess and Mike Hennahane
>covered a lot of good ground, but I think a crucial point
>may have been glossed over.

>Men don't get it because they don't want to.

I think this is true of all but a small fraction of men.
It's male privilege that animates and sustains sexism,
probably.

>Many of these guys aren't clueless - that's letting them off
>the hook.  It's not that they DON'T see, they see all too
>well, and back off from what they see.  I still do.  The
>only moral victory I'm claiming for myself here is that I
>sometimes recognize what I'm doing.

Much of the problem is so thoroughly interwoven into the
social fabric that actually being rid of it must await the
evolution of a rather different fabric.  But part of shaping
what that evolution will be (one hopes it will be) is having
the kind of awareness and sensitivity you mention.

>This struggle against sexism, it's not a struggle against
>ignorance.  It's a struggle against self-interest.  If it was
>merely ignorance, the struggle would have been over long
>ago.

First-rate point, I think.

-- 
[Jess Anderson <> Madison Academic Computing Center <> University of Wisconsin]
[Internet: anderson@macc.wisc.edu <-best, UUCP:{}!uwvax!macc.wisc.edu!anderson]
[Room 3130 <> 1210 West Dayton Street / Madison WI 53706 <> Phone 608/262-5888]
[---------> Discrimination, Bigotry, and Hate are not Family Values <---------]
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: rogerk@queernet.org (Roger B.A. Klorese)
Subject: Re: Year of the Queer
Date: Wed, 13 Jan 1993 02:44:30 GMT
Organization: QueerNet

In article <1993Jan12.213151.29617@psych.toronto.edu> jarvis@psych.toronto.edu (Brian Jarvis) writes:
>In article <C0rDqJ.FpE@unix.amherst.edu> twpierce@unix.amherst.edu (Tim Pierce) writes:
>>Really?  What were the events that led up to this repeal?
>The election of a bi prime minister, mainly.

And what do you think led up to his being able to affirm this in public
and get elected, rather than jailed?
-- 
ROGER B.A. KLORESE                                              +1 415 ALL-ARFF
rogerk@unpc.QueerNet.ORG              {ames,decwrl,pyramid}!sgiblab!unpc!rogerk
"Normal is not something to aspire to, it's something to get away from."
                                                                   -- J. Foster
From: anthropo@carina.unm.edu (Dominick V. Zurlo)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: Further Digression - Cincinnati Chili
Date: 12 Jan 1993 20:51:54 GMT
Organization: University of New Mexico, Albuquerque
Distribution: usa
NNTP-Posting-Host: carina.unm.edu

In article <1iv2g9INN1qc@meaddata.meaddata.com> ptb@meaddata.com (Patrick Bell) writes:
>In article <1iuqb0INN88q@lynx.unm.edu>, anthropo@carina.unm.edu (Dominick V. Zurlo) writes:
>|> In article <1993Jan12.065600.11151@adobe.com> asente@adobe.com (A Usenet Pal) writes:
>|> >In article <1993Jan8.203959.4544@usl.edu> rhb@ucs.usl.edu (Bird Rendell H.) writes:
>|> >>Chili in Houston is reddish-brown, but in El Paso it is green.
>|> 
>|> Actually, there is both red and green.  It is also a question of being
>|> the chili peppers themselves (stewed, diced, or otherwise) or being 
>|> the chili that's chock full of ground beef, beans, and chili peppers...
>|> >
>|> >And in Cincinatti it is spaghetti.
>|> chili is spaghetti?  I think I missed something...
>|> But if chili is spaghetti, i think I'm glad...
>|> (although green chili mixed into a tomatoe sauce for spaget.. is wonderfull)
>|> Flapjack
> 
(info on chili on top os spaget deleted, as well as trucking info..)
>
>This chili is served in Layers.  A "3-way" is Spaghetti topped with Chili (no
>beans) topped with mounds of shredded Cheddar Cheese.  A 4-way allows the   
>option of either a layer of beans or onions to be added on top of the chili.
>A 5-way contains a layer of both beans and onions.

Ah, then I have had it...(more than once...)
>
>It is also served on top of small hot dogs and then covered with a mound of
>shredded cheddar cheese.  Options here are onions or mustard.  These are
>called "coneys", named after an old (old old) amusement park in Cincinnati
>named "Coney Island".  

I grew up with these (coneys) but only consumed them rarely as my mother
didn't approve of them...
>
>Cincinnati chili is somewhat of an acquired taste, but once acquired (usually
>while in college after drinking heavily at fraternity parties), it's worshipped
>much like a good cup of coffee.

Nothing is worshipped like coffee according to my roomie...
(I personally could care less, not being a coffee addict myself.)
Flapjack