HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: desanto@uvahep.phys.Virginia.EDU
Newsgroups: alt.games.torg
Subject: Re: Learning New Miracles
Date: 12 Nov 92 23:59:37 GMT
Organization: University of North Texas
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  There's another circumstance for having multiple Faiths, I believe.  If I
remember correctly, Faith(voodoo) can be combined with other Faiths (most
notably Christian faiths) without penalty.  
  In fact, (if I remember the DCWB correctly) anyone who is subject to a 
successful voodoo miracle may unintentionally pick up an add in Faith(voodoo)
without penalty to their other faiths.  This represents a belief that voodoo
actually works without one worshipping the voodoo spirits.

Steve DeSanto
ssd2q@uva.pcmail.virginia.edu
From: oakes@jupiter.nmt.edu (David Oakes)
Newsgroups: alt.games.torg
Subject: Re:  nile magic, mk II
Date: 11 Nov 92 21:19:18 GMT
Organization: University of North Texas
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zone div 15 determines required planets?
why 15? and why not make it something along the lines of a TORG measure?
(still think that theorems are the way to go)

with thoth/ptah gone, what is the mechanism for "real" magic?
(isis would be the next canidate)

dave "though i do like the 129 mil conjunction theory..." oakes
Newsgroups: alt.games.torg
From: aodn307@bongo.cc.utexas.edu (Joshua Henry Geurink)
Subject: CoKJ
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Date: Wed, 11 Nov 1992 21:20:50 GMT


Newsgroups: alt.games.torg
From: smooge@jupiter.nmt.edu (the Smooge)
Subject: Re: A New Cosm!!! (read in Price is Right voice : )
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Date: Wed, 11 Nov 1992 16:41:39 GMT

Hey since I brought this up first here are the axioms of the disaster 
cosm:

Magic: 02
	Limited deja vu that something wrong is going to happen
is possible for some people. However most of the people just dont
get it.

Social: 21
	The social organization is on the most part the same as core
earth's. However this axiom is affected by the Law Of Small Numbers.

Tech: 23
        Technology is at core earth standards with several areas at
tech 24. These areas last just long enough for some major building
that was impossible to build under 23 axioms to be built, or for
some ship to be built... etc.

Spirit: 05
	God(s) do not intervene in this cosm... and no matter how much
you pray, you are gonna not be able to invoke much. 

Suggested World Laws:
	Law of Small Numbers:
   In times of crisis people will more than likely get split into two
groups... the ones that will try to escape and those that will stand
around and wait for rescue. Before the darkness device, groups would
get split up by whoever was the most persuasive leader of the stayers
or goers. Ussually the stayers would be slightly larger, and a medium
sized group of goers would try for rescue.

  However, since disaesters (I will spell it right someday) often
cause storm knights to be spawned, the darkness device has bent this
law subtly. Of the initial SK spawned, the darkness device will choose
one to be a stayer... this npc will have 6 adds in willpower,
charisma, and persuasion. His job is to force as many people to stay
where they are through cunning arguments, etc. The darkness device
usually fills this pawn with ideas that if he stays he will be able to
survive. The npc Stayer will counter any and all possibilites that
party members spend in trying to persuade others (remember the stayer
is limited to 5 to 10 pp unless there will be a lot of deaths, the dd
may then pump more pp into the stayer.) There are two reasons for this
manipulation of the world law. One these events cause great destruction
and anarchy (something dd's love!), and two at the moment the stayers
usually die the darkness device gets all the possibility energy from
them.

Well that is an initial try at world laws. I have two more in my head
something like the law of wonder to explain the shifts in tech axioms,
and maybe something more definitive about how groups break up into units
(there are always some ords that go with the adventuresome ones... how
do we select.)

the Smooge
From: clay (Clay Luther)
Subject: Re: FTP site
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Date: Thu, 12 Nov 1992 19:05:38 GMT

>
>What happen to the Torg ftp site?
>Is there a different address?
>If so, what is it?
>
>All help is welcome.


The archives are at 149.98.10.61 (clay.vortech.com).

---
Clay W. Luther                                 clay@vortech.com
Software Engineer                             Vortech Data, Inc
Office (214) 994-1377                        Fax (214) 994-1310
                             Also cluther@morticia.cnns.unt.edu

Well, it had been 987 years in outer space time when I got back.
Couldn't seem to find any of my friends to tell my interesting
stories to.

Newsgroups: alt.games.torg
From: "Colin J. Wynne" <cwynne@liberty.uc.wlu.edu>
Subject: A New Cosm!!! (read in Price is Right voice : )
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Date: Tue, 10 Nov 1992 07:04:19 GMT

Here it is:

		THE DISASTER COSM!!!!!

Axioms:  Same as Core Earth(*)

High Lord: Irwin Allen
Major Lieutenants: Charlton Heston
		   Burt Lancaster
		   Ernest Borgnine
		   Samuel L. Bronkowitz

Darkness Device: Shaped Like a black, ticking attache case

Law of Mishap:
	Whenever a mode of transportation is being used, generate a bonus
(min +1) and add it to the value of the number of passengers (including
the operator(s)).  If the total exceeds the value of the distance to be
traversed, a disaster will occur.  Timing is left to gm's discretion.

Law of Cataclism:
	The DD will bump the Spirit axiom to 21 *only* for the purposes of
direct invocations resulting in natural disasters.  i.e., tornadoes, tidal
waves, meteorite impacts, etc.

Law of Horrific Creatures:
	The DD will alter local axioms sufficiently such that any
rampaging monster (like Godzilla, Gidra, Mothra, etc.) will not
disconnect; it will automatically be provided with a local zone with
sufficient tech, magic, and/or spirit to support its existence.  For
example, Mechazilla would not disconnect, despite its tech 26 or so
requirements.

Law of Involvement:
	Every Storm Knight is assumed to be playing a Personal Stake
subplot *all the time* when in the disaster cosm.  This reflects the fact
that the Knight will always know someone involved with the disaster at
hand.  A secondary result is that, if it is impossible to justify the
former, the Knight will also be assumed to be playing a Romance subplot,
on someone involved, in order to generate the Personal Stake.  Unlike the
subplot cards, however, the p-point bonus at the end of an act is (-2,+2)
depending on how well they play the subplot.  i.e., penalties are possible
for ignoring the subplot.

So, what do you think?  :)
(BTW, I watched 'Airport' this weekend.  8-]

CJW

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
  =====  Colin J. Wynne                     Washington & Lee University  =====
  =====  cwynne@liberty.uc.wlu.edu              Lexington, Virginia      =====
<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<


Newsgroups: alt.games.torg
From: Jim Ogle (Ks. Jim) <jogle@aoc.nrao.edu>
Subject: Re: social axiom, dammit! (was faith(sci))
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Date: Fri, 6 Nov 1992 00:28:15 GMT

Isaac writes:

> >> oh yeah, i fogot - the highest spirit axiom is 17,
> >> because WEG doesnt want to deal with what happens after that

> >Uhh... what about the Living Land (Spirit 24)

> The LL is currently on its deathbed, as the land below is "erupting"
> into the eastern land, burning up stelae as it goes.  Don't ask me how...
> I was told this by his holiness Kansas Jim, and he got it from Iverse.

Actually, I heard it here on the mailing list from people who heard it
from WEG at GenCon....

> WEG as yet to explain how this is happening.  My theory is that Rec Pakken
> chose Damo Kil the leopard man as the new high-lord, and that RP is making
> the transition slowly, in order to save poss. energy.

Doubtful, since the Land Below is destroying Rec Pakken's stelae as it
erupts onto the surface - RP would be losing tons of PE if he were
making a transition in that manner.

Kansas Jim (jogle@aoc.nrao.edu)
Newsgroups: alt.games.torg
From: burt@ptltd.com (Burton Choinski)
Subject: Re: Nile Magic
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Date: Wed, 11 Nov 1992 13:21:29 GMT

Ks. Jim sez...
-------
Having reread the section on Egyptian magic in the Nile SB just now, I
take back my opposition to using the Egyptian Religion skill in spell
creation; it says that magic AND miracles that depend on astronomy
-------
I guess that's a wrap.  I'll probably use it for the State matrix
(fourth term) then.
    -- Burton
Newsgroups: alt.games.torg
From: Jim Ogle (Ks. Jim) <jogle@aoc.nrao.edu>
Subject: Re: A SPI Question
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Date: Wed, 11 Nov 1992 06:30:13 GMT

Rick writes:

> 	And on a related note, how do those of you with Faith (Athiesm)
> deal with the Athiest making his checks.  Lord Charnwyasr, a Demon 
> Prince casts the magic spell "Pav Crush" or something.  He twiddles his
> claws, and chants in Tharkholdu.  
> 	Next round, he twiddles his claws, chants in Tharkholdu and 
> invokes the "Killmachine" miracle.  
> 
> 	Should the Athiest know that the T-D is invoking a miracle 
> as opposed to casting a spell?  Unless you're an expert on T-D 
> lore, the effects and mechanism seem the same.

Well, you could always let the atheist make a roll for the magic
spell, even though there will obviously be no effect.  That way you
can keep the player in the dark!  If a miracle succeeds despite the
atheists attempt, then he'll obviously attribute it to magical forces,
since gods don't exist.  8-)

There's also the fact that the Tharkoldu religion is so ill-defined
that it might as well be magic anyway, but that's another matter....

> 	Or is the Athiest a "miracle sinkhole" where _all_ miracles 
> invoked in his presence have to beat his athiesm?

I would say that it only comes into play if the atheist observes
something he can disclaim as being a "miraculous event".  So if that
tharkoldu can convince the atheist that Killmachine is just a magic
spell the atheist cannot try and prevent it from happening.

> 	[I really don't like the concept of an Athiest being able
> to pick and choose which miracles he can block.  "Okay, Taztor, 
> I'll let you heal our friend, but that nasty Priest of Ravok 
> can't cast 'Earthquake' while I'm around."

I don't allow it, since it makes no sense ("I'll believe that god X
may exist, but god Y certainly doesn't" - NOT!)

Kansas Jim (jogle@aoc.nrao.edu)
Newsgroups: alt.games.torg
From: SHERIS@EARLHAM.BITNET
Subject: Re: social axiom, dammit! (was faith(sci))
X-Gated-By: The Black Marble Wombat@morticia.cnns.unt.edu
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Date: Thu, 5 Nov 1992 23:53:00 GMT

>oakes@jupiter.nmt.edu (David Oakes) writes:
>
>>
>> oh yeah, i fogot - the highest spirit axiom is 17,
>> because WEG doesnt want to deal with what happens after that
>>
>Uhh... what about the Living Land (Spirit 24)
>

The LL is currently on its deathbed, as the land below is "erupting"
into the eastern land, burning up stelae as it goes.  Don't ask me how...
I was told this by his holiness Kansas Jim, and he got it from Iverse.
WEG as yet to explain how this is happening.  My theory is that Rec Pakken
chose Damo Kil the leopard man as the new high-lord, and that RP is making
the transition slowly, in order to save poss. energy.
        Besides, is there anything about the LL miracles that make them
so superior to the miracles of the various Sp. 17 realms?  No.  That's
because WEG fucked up (pardon my japanese--did you think I'd say something as
trite as "pardon my french"?) on the LL big time, especially in the
department of making their miracles so superior, which never really happenned.
At any rate, both WEG and (apparently) the Iverse subscribers grew tired of
the LL, and so ave it the axe, which is on its way down now.

                                        There can be only one...
                                        Isaac Sher
                                        High-Lord of Earlham College
From: jkiley@andy.bgsu.edu (James H. Kiley)
Newsgroups: alt.games.torg
Subject: Re: Learning New Miracles
Date: 12 Nov 92 21:15:45 GMT
Organization: University of North Texas
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On Thu, 12 Nov 1992, David Oakes wrote:

>  ! Only the Eastern Land is being screwed by the Land Below, so the US
>  ! forces will still have to kick lizard butt in the Western Land to
>  ! truly get rid of the Living Land by WEG's vague deadline of "next
>  ! spring".  
> 
> but the western land lacks a bridge, and would seem similarly doomed...
> 
> dave "but WEG invented reality trees to have their cake and eat it too" oakes

	Greg Farshtey specifically mentioned Reality Trees, so that all
them edeinos don't bite it.

jk
Newsgroups: alt.games.torg
From: SHERIS@EARLHAM.BITNET
Subject: Living Land stuff...
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Date: Tue, 10 Nov 1992 16:05:00 GMT


Someone brought up the subject of the living land, and how
the miracles are really quite effective...well, this is true; LL
miracles are rather nasty.  However, the thing about the LL that
bothers me is the fact that the LL SB does not exercise/explain
the spiritual axiom of 24.  It says that all jakatts can cast miracles,
even lowly peons.  That's nice, but there are no rule mechanics to
back this up!  There is nothing that says that all jakatts have a free
add in focus/faith (which would make sense), or any other game mechanics
explanation for how all jakatts can cast them.  Also, it does not state
how many miracles one has access to; this has always been a hazy point
on miracles.  Considering that the axiom *is* 24, perhaps jakatts/optants
should have access to ALL LL miracles...otherwise, Optants are really no more
powerful than a priest with the same spirit/focus/faith values from Aysle,
Tharkold, Tz'Ravok, Land Below, Nile, or Orrorsh, all of which have a
spiritual axiom of 16 or 17.  Considering also that the miracles are all
that the edeinos have, there should be far more of them, and with more
diverse effects--not just combat/survival related ones.  My problem
with the LL therefore, is not with the realm itself, but with the way it was
handled.  It had much potential, but next to none of it was exploited.
        I have had many adventures in the LL, most notably the Temple
of Rec Stalek, and it can be fun at times.  I think that if Thrakmoss
had become the new h-lord, then the LL would have had some new life breathed
into it, but Thrakmoss bit the big one, so no go there.  One of the fun things
about the LL is that its disco territory--by this I mean that nearly everything
from another realm is contradictory, mostly due to the low axioms, and
what is more, the reconnection numbers are HELL!  This makes things
reeeeal interesting.  Got a tharkoldu PC?  Send him to Chicago, and
watch the fun begin...seven rolls to reco, with a DN of at least 21, if
I recall correctly.
        The LL can be fun, but it has died due to lack of good explanation
and/or exploitation.  I won't miss it too much.  If only WEG had their
act together on this one...BTW, am I the only one who is bothered by the
fact that the LL has no World Laws in the proper sense?  And no, the Deep
Mist and the Compass Curse do not count.


                                Glory Card, Glory Card, Hallejuah!
                                        Isaac Sher
                                        High-Lord of Earlham College

Newsgroups: alt.games.torg
From: Brother Andrek <arakins@iastate.edu>
Subject: Re: My campaign... 
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Date: Wed, 11 Nov 1992 03:22:48 GMT


  Well, I'm new to the TORG game, so I don't know the
story about The Gaunt Man being locked in a maelstrom.
And I simply chose to ingnore the Tharkold failure.
  Heh...GM perogative...

-- Andrew Akins
   aka Brother Andrek
   Iowa State University
   arakins@iastate.edu

Newsgroups: alt.games.torg
From: "Colin J. Wynne" <cwynne@liberty.uc.wlu.edu>
Subject: Re: Direct Invocations
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Date: Wed, 11 Nov 1992 13:01:13 GMT

OK, I don't have a book in front of me.  (OKIDHABIFOM?  It gets used often
enough...)

Somebody please tell me what exactly the SPI axiom 13 entry is that makes
it special (since that number has been punted around quite a few times so
far).

Aside from that now, I just want to respond to KJ's comments about Direct
Invocations.  Given my example of the 1 faith add churchgoer, you asked
(somewhat rhetorically, I imagined) if I appreciated just how unlikely a
one person, one add, DI was to occur.

Well, yes.  But multiply that percentage by the total number of people
with one or more faith add, no focus, and make sure you give each of these
people one prayer per day (i.e., each time they get their faiths back
after their prayers are ignored).  Would somebody like to crunch numbers
and offer a suggested rate of occurence of minimal or better direct
invocations based on that formula?

It'll happen.  Not often, but, hey, it wouldn't be miraculous if it were.

CJW

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
  =====  Colin J. Wynne                     Washington & Lee University  =====
  =====  cwynne@liberty.uc.wlu.edu              Lexington, Virginia      =====
<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<


Newsgroups: alt.games.torg
From: oakes@jupiter.nmt.edu (David Oakes)
Subject: Re: Living Land stuff...
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Date: Wed, 11 Nov 1992 17:06:49 GMT

doesnt the spirit axiom have specific levels where it says
"no longer needs focus" and "no longer needs faith"
(the last one sounds bogus, i probably made it up,
 but maybe at the "only one god. period." level)

i take this to mean that the SKILL "focus" is not needed,
so the miracles goes off the base spirit of the petitioner

dave "and dont most miracles already have a community rating?" oakes
Newsgroups: alt.games.torg
From: "James H. Kiley" <jkiley@andy.bgsu.edu>
Subject: Re: What If.....
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Date: Wed, 11 Nov 1992 00:41:08 GMT



On 10 Nov 1992, Jason D Corley wrote:

> The Law of Exclamations: When confronted with any conflict
> whatsoever, one or more persons in the surrounding area
> must say "Zoicks!" or suffer Possibility drain.
> 
> 	Jason
> 	aka Old Man Smithers

	'Jinkies!' is also acceptable.



Newsgroups: alt.games.torg
From: Jim Ogle (Ks. Jim) <jogle@aoc.nrao.edu>
Subject: Re:  Learning New Miracles
X-Gated-By: The Black Marble Wombat@morticia.cnns.unt.edu
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Date: Fri, 13 Nov 1992 00:48:38 GMT

Dave Oakes conspires with Smooge to spread mistruths:

> Kansas Jim (jogle@aoc.nrao.edu) is also a jealous god:
>  ! > Evidently, characters can (according to some sourcebook) take multiple
>  ! > faith skills, and thus use miracles from BOTH (or ALL) faiths involved.
>  ! ???  I don't think so!  
>  ! If you can find it in a TORG sourcebook somewhere I will travel to
>  ! Honesdale myself and cause severe trauma to a certain group of game
>  ! designers....
> 
> make them plane reservations now - the smooge was right!
> the SG SB says that to avoid the religious conflict
> (and to be able to cast any miracle in the SG areas)
> one must get an add in faith(akashan) IN ADDITION to any other adds
> implying that one can have more than one faith(skill) -
> my ruling would be that they cannot be contradictory in ANY way

It says nothing about avoiding religious conflict, it says that you
can perform miracles of an alien faith in the Akashan realm by
purchasing an add in Faith (Akasha) but you also have to spend three
months leaning the Akashan philosophy that all gods are the same.  In
my book that means you have changed your religious beliefs to match
those of the Akashans, and no longer follow your original faith (would
a true judeo-christian accept that all gods are the same, when their
doctrine tells them that any god with a different name is the devil in
disguise?)  So as I see it, you no longer have Faith(whoever) anymore,
you have Faith (Akasha), which encompasses your former religion - it
doesn't add or work as a supplement.

> walking around with various adds in disimilar religions IS bogus,
> and i would personally say that faith(akashan) is a unique "meta-faith"
> that supercedes the tennents of the initial faiths, but allows one 
> to use previous religious convictions when appealing to aperios
> ("god" and "aperios' sub form named 'god'" are separate entities,
>  even in the belief that aperios is all things - diff base, diff faith)

Basically right, but I don't buy that your old Faith sticks around; by
accepting the Akashan beliefs you have thrown out all your old
beliefs, since practically every religion is going to say that only
their gods are the true gods - if you no longer believe that, you no
longer believe in your previous religion..

>  ! Only the Eastern Land is being screwed by the Land Below, so the US
>  ! forces will still have to kick lizard butt in the Western Land to
>  ! truly get rid of the Living Land by WEG's vague deadline of "next
>  ! spring".  
> 
> but the western land lacks a bridge, and would seem similarly doomed...

It's doomed but its not just going to go away like the Eastern Land
appears to be doing...it's still necessary to go in, inspire people,
uproot stelae, fight off bad lizards, etc etc.

Kansas Jim (jogle@aoc.nrao.edu)
Newsgroups: alt.games.torg