From: tmorris@bruny.cc.utas.edu.au (Tim Morris)
Subject: Re: The cheapness of Bison 
Organization: University of Tasmania, Australia.
Date: Fri, 25 Dec 1992 12:08:25 GMT

jbw@ponder.csci.unt.edu (WEST JASON BRUCE) writes:

>Newbie vs. Newbie:
>   We have 2 newbies - neither understand position or any of the finer points
>of the game.  Bison has his torpedo down - and knows no other special moves
>exist.  Ken has his fireball down - and knows no other special moves exist.
>Who will win in this hypothetical situation?
>   If the Ken is taught in 5 minutes how to tick (short, throw - short short
>,throw) I think he will win after about 10 losses.  

If the Ken player is taught how to tick, then it's fair to assume that
the Bison player is able to jab-jab-throw tick as well.  So, knock Ken
down with a single torpedo and the round's over!   What I'm trying to
say is that your argument of a ticking Ken putting Bison in the grave
is fairly pointless, since Bison has at least as much ticking potential
as Ken.

>Ken can simply fireball and roundhouse kick any Bison who jumps fireballs.  
>He will quickly learn to jump torpedoes.  

I have several problems with this.

  1. It's easier to jump a fireball than a torpedo.
  2. If Bison jumps over a fireball, he can newbie combo Ken (eg. aerial
     roundhouse, forward sweep, endless torpedo routine).  This comes down 
     to a guessing game - Bison has to jump slightly after Ken throws a 
     fireball.  I think the law of averages says that Bison will win
     this scenario in the long run, especially since newbie Kens aren't 
     particularly creative when it comes to faking their fireballs.
  3. If Ken jumps over a torpedo, he gains nothing.
  4. Bison can afford to block about 15 fireballs for every time Ken blocks
     a torpedo.  (The blocked torpedo hits for 6 "clicks" on a newbie, each 
     click is equivalent to two or three blocked fireballs).

>And once Ken gets in on Bison, Bison will lose the match.
>A newbie Bison will have no shot at reversing ken's tick.  

Bison's jab-jab-throw will win just as easily as Ken's short-short-throw.

>Master v Master:

>   No problem.  This is the real problem with Bison - he sucks as a character.

I think you're being a bit harsh, in fact I tend to agree with CyberGeek's
assessment that Bison has a slightly better than average chance of beating
many of the characters (I've included his rating below).

Character  Chance of defeating:                              Total  % chance
used       Ryu Ken ChL E.H Zan Bla Dha Gui Bal Vega Sag Bis  Score  winning
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
M. Bison    6   6   6   6   4   7   6   4   8   5    6   5     69     57.5


>Bison plateus VERY early.  After his basic ticks and defense are learned, he's
>a done deal.  His incredibly long hang time make him a sitting duck for Ken's
>DP.  His torpedo is nullified by a master Ken's fireballs and DPs.  

Ken can only fireball when Bison isn't charged for the headstomp.  This
forces Ken to take the fight up to Bison, which effectively plays into
Bison's hands.  Bison's greatest weakness (long hang time) is a plus for 
Ken, but a cagey Bison generally sticks to the ground and plays a waiting 
game (like Guile vs. Blanka on the classic).

>The side question of "who's moves are harder':

>[fireballing is roughly as hard as sonic booming]

Agreed.  

I don't see how you can equate DP with head stomp though.

>[back to newbie vs. newbie again...]
>A better example would be King Guile.  A newbie Guile who knows razor kick 
>can sit crouched and beat all Bison's moves, period.

Agreed.  But Bison will thrash Chun Li, Sagat, Vega, Blanka, Balrog, Dhalsim
and Honda, and will have a better than even shot vs. Ken, Ryu and Zangief.
Bison's advantage vs. these characters remains until a high skill level
is reached, at which point I agree with the table above.

--
Tim Morris