HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: WELACK@MIAMIU.BITNET
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
Subject: Re: Ramon, MRI, Crews, Comments, and a Question
Date: 8 Apr 92 12:16:58 GMT
Organization: Miami University - Academic Computer Service

money that teams have to pay players today, it's only fair for the team
to be able to protect their interests. The Reds wanted Rob Dibble to take
an MRI last year in the second half of the season, but he passed saying
there was nothing wrong with his arm. I don't know if you can put a player
on the DL if they say there is nothing wrong with them, but you should be
able to force the player to do something to get himself ready to play.
Putting him on the DL won't do it, cause they still get that big ole
paycheck every two weeks. I don't know what the answer is.
 
 
Bill Lack
 
Go Reds!!!!!!
From: randy@cellar.org (Randall Cooper)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
Subject: Re: Yankees what to do.
Date: 15 Apr 92 21:34:57 GMT
Organization: The Cellar BBS and public access system

baxtman@zephyr.cair.du.edu (Captain Chaos) writes:

> over loaded.  I think they should trade at least Barfeild and 
> probably Mel Hall and get the youth in.  Bernie Williams and
> maybe Hensly Muelens.  Use some of the talent to get some decent
> pitching.  Not saying they aren't holding there own so far this year.

I don't agree.  Barfield is tradeable, because he's inconsistent but his 
quality can attract good players.  Hall is simply too valuable to the Yanks 
to be traded.  Muelens is a loser, I think.  Never proven himself at the 
major league level..and there's no where to play him (forget third base, he's 
got stone hands).  You don't need another outfielder with Roberto Kelly and 
Danny Tartabull leading the way and Mel Hall close behind.  Bernie Williams 
has the potential to be one of the best fielding center fielders of his time, 
but you can't move Kelly out...so I might, very reluctantly, trade him.

> Kevin Maas what to do.  Poor guy full of talent and gets stuck
> playing behind Mattingly.  I would trade him but what happens when 
> he comes back to haunt you and mattingly gets hurt ouch.

Forget Kevin Maas.  He'll never hit over .220...and his home runs will never 
again reach the output he had two years ago.  Trade him...if someone will 
take him.

------
randy@cellar.org (Randall Cooper)
The Cellar BBS - (215) 654-9184
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
From: edd@gvlf2.gvl.unisys.com (Ed Dougherty)
Subject: Re: "It's outta here!"(Phillies, Murphy)
Organization: Unisys Defense Systems, Great Valley Labs, Paoli, Pa
Date: Fri, 10 Apr 1992 12:53:57 GMT

In article <1992Apr9.115616.10155@cs.dal.ca> colin@ug.cs.dal.ca (Colin Edward Mac Donald) writes:
>
>	Alright, who brought back the rabbit balls from a few years back.
>	Phillies hit 3 HR's in one inning, Cecil has 3 already, a couple
>	of guys in the AL(who were they?) hit their first homers EVER.
>	Very strange...
>
>	Just pointing something out about the new season,
>	Colin Mac Donald
>	colin@ug.cs.dal.ca
>
The Phills are hitting all those home runs because they're GOOOD!
Tied for first in the east with Pitt, the other team from Pensylvania.:)
Let me enjoy it for one day anyway.

By the way, Murphy and Hollings both hit homers last night,
Murphy got Texaco Star of the Game, for all the Murphy fans
out there, (it was nice).

On a more serious note, I was also wondering about all the homers.

ed doc
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
From: sfh@po.CWRU.Edu (Steven F. Hubbard)
Subject: Re: MATT YOUNG TOSSES NO-HITTER, LOSES 2-1
Reply-To: sfh@po.CWRU.Edu (Steven F. Hubbard)
Organization: Case Western Reserve University, Cleveland, OH (USA)
Date: Mon, 13 Apr 92 22:15:13 GMT


In a previous article, mn1s+@andrew.cmu.edu (Michael Scott Neiberg) says:

>So according to the new (and IMHO lousy) rule on no-nos a home team
>pitcher can only get a no-no if he loses, right?  SOunds pretty dumb to
>me.  The rule also erases Haddix' great feat in Milwaukee.  Pretty lame 
>

   The fact remains though, that Haddix gave up a hit.  That can't be
called a no-hitter in spite of the fact that it may be the greatest
single pitching feat in baseball history.

    I don't like the rule though.  Matt Young threw a complete game and
gave up no hits.  That is a no-hitter to me.  

   I like the fact that games shortened by rain don't count as
no-hitters, but Young pitched as much of that game as possible.   

   Do pitchers receive credit for a complete game if it's shortened by
rain?  Young has to get a CG for yesterday of course, so it just doesn't
make sense to throw a complete game, allow no hits, and not have the
league recognize it as a no-hitter.

SfH
From: rsibet@pnet51.orb.mn.org (Rand Sibet)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
Subject: Re: For Jays fans only!
Date: 15 Apr 92 11:05:06 GMT
Article-I.D.: orbit.7484
Organization: People-Net [pnet51], Minneapolis, MN.

>>In article <1992Apr14.050653.24924@cs.cornell.edu> 
>>tedward@cs.cornell.edu (Edward [Ted] Fischer) writes:
   
>From: wwedward@watserv1.waterloo.edu (Waynedog Edwards)>
   
>>Face it, the Blue Jays suck!  They got a little lucky there for a
>>while, but tonight their true colors showed.  They got their little
>>blue asses whipped by Greg "I'm all the Yankees have to show for
>>Rickey" Cadaret!
>>
>>What a shock!  I can only imagine the shame of 50,000 fans as they
>>watched Todd "Beanball" Stottlemyre blow yet another early-game lead.
>>And their disgust as the "potent" Jays lineup produced a mere two runs
>>in the game against one of the worst starters in baseball.
>>
>>I can only imagine this shame because the Blue Jays fans, in proper
>>Canadian tradition, had all fled the stadium by the end of the
>>seventh.  Only the losers and the misfits were privileged to watch
>>Todd blow the game.
>>
>>The McJays have seen their last of first place for this season.  From
>>now on they travel to the cellar in the company of the Tigers.
>>
>Personally, I would be embarrassed to write crap like this.  Everyone 
>should remember that there 162 games to a season and that nobody has won 
>or lost anything until they are all over.
   
Waynedog: Relax. You're showing how new you are around here. All Ted was
doing is something you haven't: contributed something we didn't already know.
   
Inet: rsibet@pnet51.orb.mn.org  |
Uucp: kksys!orbit!pnet51!rsibet |  
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
From: jlundy@bilbo.encore.com (Joe Lundy)
Subject: Re: Eckersley NOT better than Fingers
Organization: Encore Computer Corp.
Date: Fri, 17 Apr 1992 13:36:23 GMT

In article <1992Apr16.235226.10992@adobe.com>, snichols@adobe.com
(Sherri "Iron Beer" Nichols) writes:
|> In article <1992Apr16.223706.24663@ux1.cso.uiuc.edu> glb50263@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (Gary L. Blickhan) writes:
|> >I'd take Dan Quisenberry any day over Dennis Eckersley. Period.  
|> >I don't care what your numbers are (wherever you got them).
|> 
|> Then, seriously, what's your point?  If you aren't interested in evidence,
|> then why are you bothering to argue this?  
 
Correct.  ...and you tell me to back up my argument with stats!   Give me a 
break!  I said "stats please" for my argument because

1) I don't usually bring my MacMillan's to work with me.  I do, however have
   a copy of "FORTRAN for Humans" in my office, if you ever want to argue the
   merits of the CONTINUE statement...

2) There are intelligent and capable people on the net more than willing to 
   post them for the benefit of many of our r.s.bb flame wars
   (J. King, S. Nichols, Bob "Keep those Hall of Fame Ballots Coming!" Davis,
   to name a few.)

3) I never met the legend of Al Feldstein, but I have the feeling he'd probably
   put all of this in perspective.

4) This Quisenberry path is ludicrous.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
| Joe Lundy           Encore Computer Corporation, 6901 W. Sunrise Blvd.    |
| jlundy@encore.com   Mail Stop 811, Ft. Lauderdale, FL  33313-4499         |
| "Who is the man who would risk his life for his brother man" - I. Hayes   |
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
From: texdude@camelot.bradley.edu (Philip Allen)
Subject: Henderson vs. Ryan
Organization: Bradley University
Distribution: usa
Date: 14 Apr 92 00:32:08 GMT


In <167C8F309.CAVGEOE@YaleVM.YCC.Yale.Edu> CAVGEOE@YaleVM.YCC.Yale.Edu writes:

>     Aw, c'mon, give Rickey (note spelling) a break.  When he said,
>"You were good, Lou, but today I am the greatest," he was referring
>to prowess in stealing bases, not overall ability or value.  And you
>know what?  He was right.  His assessment of both Brock and himself
>was pretty accurate.  No, it wasn't elegant or gracious but dammit,
>Henderson isn't paid to make speeches, he's paid to win ballgames
>for the teams he plays for, and he's done a hell of a lot more of
>that than Nolan Ryan or any of the clowns who thought it was so
>"fitting" that Ryan stole the headlines the next morning.  He was
>put on the spot and may have sounded a little arrogant but like
>Dizzy Dean said, if you can do it, it ain't bragging.
>     ESPN's little 7>939 feature was really nasty and undeserved
>by Henderson.  It's too bad that Ryan will probably get more HOF
>votes than Rickey, and maybe even go in on an earlier ballot, seeing
>as Rickey is at least twice as good a player as Ryan.

This is totally idiotic.  Rickey Henderson is a great baseball player, but
he isn't even in the same league as Ryan when it comes to quality.

Nolan Ryan is the all-time leader in strikeouts, strikeouts/innings pitched
(for more than 500 IP), and no-hitters.  He ranks in the top ten or twenty
in wins, lowest opponents' BA, lowest opponents' SLG, and shutouts.  Last
year, Ryan led the majors in lowest BA/OBA/SLG allowed (.172/.263/.285) and
K/9 IP (10.6).  He also ranked third in K's in the AL (203) and fifth in
ERA (2.91).  And he did this at age 45.  (Let's see how good Henderson is at
45)

Rickey Henderson is the all-time leader in SB.  Last year, he led the AL in
SB (58) which ranked third in all-of-baseball last year.  He ranked third
in the AL in walks (98).

I realize that last year was a bad year for Rickey, but besides his
baserunning numbers, his lifetime totals aren't what legends are made of.
He walks a lot and scores a bunch of runs, and he well-deserved the MVP in
1991, but I can't believe that anyone could say that he is "twice as good a
player as Ryan" either last year, or lifetime.

As for Ryan showing up Henderson, the one thing I can remember is Henderson
giving a speech about how he's the greatest, while Nolan quietly tipped his hat
to the crowd and tried to avoid the hooplah.  If nothing else, Ryan has
more class than Rickey.


Philip Allen                  texdude@camelot.bradley.edu
From: thf2@ellis.uchicago.edu (Ted Frank)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
Subject: Re: ALL-Troublemaker Team  :)
Date: 13 Apr 92 15:26:40 GMT
Reply-To: thf2@midway.uchicago.edu
Distribution: na
Organization: University of Chicago Computing Organizations

In article <1992Apr13.083901.2325@ducvax.auburn.edu> kenneth@ducvax.auburn.edu writes:
>POS Player Name                    Reason
>--- ------------------------------ -------------------------------------------
>OF  Kevin Mitchell                 Rape allegations, taking IF practice wearing
>                                   a walkman 
>OF  Darryl Strawberry              jerk
>OF  jose Canseco                   leaving socks at Madonna's, speeding (55 mh
>                                   OVER the limit)
>OF  Otis Nixon                     Coke (no WONDER he runs so fast...he's
>                                   WIRED!)
>OF  Lenny Dykstra                  Drinking beer and wrecking car and season
>1B  Franklin Stubbs                Charging mound with bat (I think it was him)
>2B  Steve Sax                      mouth in general esp. while in LA
>
>P   Roger Clemens                  Brawling w/o a license
>P   David Cone                     Wanking
>P   Oil Can Boyd                   Forcing the wife to imitate a punching bag
>P   Pascual Perez                  Running away to NY after a bad start
>P   Rob Dibble                     Throwing at a baserunner; jerk
>P   Steve Howe                     Coke, coke, coke, coke, coke, and coke
>-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>These are just the ones I can think of offhand.  Feel free to add to the list.

3B	Wade Boggs			Margo
DH	Dave Winfield			Seagull-killing
P	Julio Machado			Murder (manslaughter?)
Mgr	Larry Bowa

>Let me also say that some of the charges above were found to be
>unsubstantiated, such as Cone's recent thing and K. Mitchell's trouble.
>At least, I think Mitchell's were unsubstantiated.  
-- 
Ted Frank          + "He wanted to be the car rather than the thimble or the
1307 E 60 St, #109 +  hat."  -- District attorney explaining Marc Cienkowski's
U o' C Law Skool   +  murder with bow and arrow of Michael Klucznik in
Chi, IL 60637      +  Doylestown Borough, PA over a game of Monopoly.
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
From: dkeisen@leland.Stanford.EDU (Dave Eisen)
Subject: Re: Rickey Henderson v Nolan Ryan -- Stat-head call to arms!
Keywords: Lundy.  *Joe* Lundy.
Organization: Sequoia Peripherals, Inc.
Date: Fri, 17 Apr 92 00:43:32 GMT

In article <1992Apr16.211200.15760@sni.ca> dave@snitor.UUCP (Dave Till) writes:
>In article <12266@ucdavis.ucdavis.edu> zuhars@madrone.eecs.ucdavis.edu
>(Gary Two Scoops Of Raisins Huckabay) writes:
>>Rickey is portrayed as a malingerer, a whiner, and cocky.  Part of the
>>reason for this is his background is different than Ryan's.  He
>>learned to communicate in a black inner city, rather than white farm
>>country.  Like or not, the communication patterns are different in
>>those two areas, and to white bread America, Rickey's is more
>>intimidating, and more accusatory.
>
>All true.  But Frank Robinson and Lloyd Moseby, among others, grew up
>in exactly the same neighbourhood (Henderson and Moseby have known each other
>since childhood) and neither of them brag and boast as much as Rickey.

True. Neither of them brag and boast as much as Henderson does. Does
this make Henderson a jerk? It certainly does in the eyes of the
sportswriters and it does in the eyes of much of America. But there
is no a priori reason why bragging is a sign of jerkdom. That is
clearly a culturally determined viewpoint. Is it a racist viewpoint?

I'm not a sociologist, but it is clear to me that at least certain
segments of black culture view this differently from the middle
class white society that most of Rickey's detractors come from. In
the NFL, who was doing the end zone dances and the Ickey shuffle
and all of those other celebrations? It was the black players. And
the owners who outlawed it? Lily white and as far from the inner
city as you can imagine.

Or take college basketball. When Lew Alcindor started dunking
at will, the NCAA banned dunking because it regarded as a way
to show up the opponents. The NCAA, most (all?) of whose officers
were white. Alcindor contended that this rule change was rascist,
and whether or not you agree, it is clear that he had a point.

So Henderson behaves in ways you don't like. And he behaves in
ways that the sportswriter's don't like. Hell, he behaves in
ways that I don't like. But is it reasonable to judge him from
the viewpoint of white, middle class, suburbia, when that is
the furthest thing from his background? Is that fair? Is that
rascist?

Well, I'll have to leave each of you to make up your own minds
about that...



-- 
Dave Eisen    dkeisen@leland.Stanford.EDU   Sequoia Peripherals: (415) 967-5644
      There's something in my library to offend everybody.
        --- Washington Coalition Against Censorship
From: gritter@cs.purdue.EDU (Carl R. Gritter)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
Subject: Re: ESPN sked
Date: 9 Apr 92 17:20:59 GMT
Organization: Department of Computer Science, Purdue University

In article  <Adt3uly00iUx01O2ku@andrew.cmu.edu> bt16+@andrew.cmu.edu (Bill Thomas) writes:
>Does anyone know the ESPN baseball schedule? Or, could it be that ESPN
>is much smarter than the other networks and doesn't create a schedule
>before the season so that it can broadcast important games after the
>races develop?

ESPN decides which games it will broadcast on a week to week basis
(all except the Sunday night games of course).  This way they can
select games of note (i.e. Nolan Ryan's 300th win) based on projected
pitching matchups.  Not surprisingly, they do pick alot of games which
feature contenders or teams from big markets like (esp. New York and
LA).  They usually make their selections for a future week (Mon-Fri)
at the end of the previous week.  You can basically tell by when they
start advertising the next weeks games.

>Note: Does anyone else lament the fact that the three quasi-national
>local cable channels cover only National League games (Cubs, Mets,
>Braves)? I've lived in Galveston, Knoxville, southeast Ohio and

Not at all!  Since ESPN rarely features my favorite team, the Expos,
these channels provide the only way to see them play.  Unfortunately,
we only get WGN and WTBS here.

I'd love to see TSN (Canada's version of ESPN) offered as part of the
cable package in the US (does it happen border states such as
Michigan?).

Carl
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
From: kyee@bnlux1.bnl.gov (kenton yee)
Subject: LA Dodgers Envy  (was:NY MET ENVY)
Organization: Brookhaven National Laboratory, Upton, NY 11973
Date: Sun, 12 Apr 1992 01:31:48 GMT

  But, begin a Giants fan, I have to admit the biggest envy
 is probably of Lasorda's Dodgers, who seem to have the bank
 account every year to buy a pennant.  


Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
From: stailey@hawkeye.comm.mot.com (Mike Stailey)
Subject: Cubs/Sox Trade
Reply-To: stailey@hawkeye.comm.mot.com
Organization: Motorola Land Mobile Products Sector
Date: Thu, 9 Apr 1992 19:31:27 GMT

In article <1992Apr8.210004.3440@ux1.cso.uiuc.edu>, glb50263@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (Gary L. Blickhan) writes:

 mbk45850@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (James Bond) writes: 
 
 * Well, the season has just started and I would like to make a few
 * comments.  First, I would like to heartily thank Larry Himes, the Cubs
 * GM for making a great trade, in my opinion, to help the White Sox.  People
 * can say what they wish, but by getting George Bell for Sammy Sosa and Ken
 * Patterson, I think the White Sox seriously ripped the Cubs off.


   If you think that George Bell is the key to the Sox winning it all, you
   apparently didn't see Mr Bell play on the north side last summer. Granted
   he is another big bat in the line up, but he is not Babe Ruth.

   I think the deal benefits both sides. The Cubs get rid of a big salary and
   a huge liability in left field, while gaining 2 young players in the process.
   If anything, the Cubs ripped off the Sox in body count alone.


   --
   Michael                      
   stailey@hawkeye.comm.mot.com
From: sgs@milton.u.washington.edu (Steven Smith)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
Subject: Today's Birthdays
Date: 17 Apr 92 20:29:08 GMT
Article-I.D.: u.1992Apr17.202908.19830
Organization: University of Washington, Seattle

Baseball Birthdays, April 17
Alexander Joy Cartwright, 1820   -- Let's all celebrate this one!
Cap Anson, 1852
Solly Hemus, 1923
Jake Daubert, 1884
Denny Walling, 1954
Marquis Grissom, 1967
Shea Stadium, 1964
Oakland Coliseum, 1968

-Steve
-- 
 sgs@u.washington.edu             *  "Less likely to put the
 Steve Smith                      *   name of another Netter
 University of Washington HR-20   *   in his .sig file than
 Seattle, WA 98195                *   umm.. err..."
From: dfl@math.wayne.edu (David Frohardt-Lane)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
Subject: Re: MATT YOUNG TOSSES NO-HITTER, LOSES 2-1
Date: 13 Apr 92 00:41:10 GMT
Article-I.D.: cs.1992Apr13.004110.4587
Organization: Wayne State University Math Department, Detroit

In article <1992Apr12.225716.17701@watcgl.waterloo.edu> cjwein@watcgl.waterloo.edu (Chris J. Wein) writes:
>I also believe that the no-hitter fails to qualify since you must also win 
>the game.  Andy Hawkins lost his no hitter because of this (he lost *4* to
>1 on some brutal errors) and he pitched it at home and thus pitched 9 
>innings.  

This is false.  I was at that game, and it was in Chicago.  Hawkins
pitched 8 innings, and lost 4-0, not 4-1.
--
David Frohardt-Lane       dfl@math.wayne.edu
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Go Pistons, Red Wings, Lions, Tigers, U-M Football and U-M Basketball!!
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
From: snichols@adobe.com (Sherri Nichols)
Subject: Re: Glove errors v. throwing errors
Organization: Adobe Systems Incorporated
Date: Tue, 7 Apr 1992 19:21:28 GMT

In article <1992Apr7.140336.1@vaxr.sscl.uwo.ca> palmer2@vaxr.sscl.uwo.ca (The Econoclast) writes:
>	But some errors are throwing errors, not muffs or glove
>errors. Sometimes they have nothing to do with range or getting to the
>ball,  and they often lead to extra bases (e.g. overthrows of first
>usually allow a runner to take 2nd, catchers' overthrows of 2nd on
>steal attempts often allow a runner to take 3rd, etc.)

First of all, what you're really distinguishing here is errors that lead to
extra bases versus errors that just allow a baserunner.  I think you'll
agree that it doesn't really matter whether it was a throwing error that
led to the extra base or a glove error that led to the extra base, though
indeed throwing errors are more likely to lead to the extra base.

Moving on from that, I just posted a few days ago some numbers on this very
topic (infield errors that allow an extra base).  Over the last 4 years of
major league baseball, approximately 15% of infield errors that involve a
batter (as distinguished from, for example,  infield errors on pick-off
throws) result in the batter getting beyond first base.  As a point of
comparison, I also looked at what percentage of ground ball hits result in
the batter getting beyond first base on the hit (as opposed to on a throw).
That number was around 8%.  

So, about 7% of the time, errors will result in a worse scenario than a
hit.  This is a very small effect.

I haven't yet broken this out by position, though I plan to.  

Sherri Nichols
snichols@adobe.com





Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball