HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: bloc1469@ee.ee.uwm.edu (Gregory R Block)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
Subject: Re: Does reading this group make you depressed? The story of a victim.
Date: 30 Dec 1992 03:56:38 GMT
Organization: Electrical Engineering Dept. University of Wisconsin - Milwaukee
NNTP-Posting-Host: 129.89.2.33

In article <C01GsK.L4C@news.iastate.edu> barrett@iastate.edu (Marc N. Barrett) writes:
>   I doubt it would uplift me.  Even in Europe there is no CD-ROM or good
>productivity software available for the Amiga.

Argh.

To be blunt, I doubt if an MX missile stuck a foot up your ass and
launched into orbit would "uplift" you.

You really should take something for that slump you're in.

Greg

--
(: (: (: (: Have you overdosed on smileys today?  Why NOT!?! :) :) :) :)
(: "Our father, who art in Iowa, Hollow be thy head, Thy ideas run    :)
(:  Thy will be done, At Commodore as it is at Apple"  -Dan Barrett   :)
(: (: (: (: (: (: (: (: (: (: (: (: () :) :) :) Wubba, the Dark Angel :)
Xref: sparky comp.sys.amiga.advocacy:32377 comp.sys.amiga.misc:19224
From: TomK@cup.portal.com (Tom R Krotchko)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy,comp.sys.amiga.misc
Subject: Re: Byte A4000/A3000T-040 Review
Date: Wed, 30 Dec 92 03:34:41 PST
Organization: The Portal System (TM)
  <1992Dec28.004411.11737@serval.net.wsu.edu> <BzyrAo.FEp@NeoSoft.com>
  <1992Dec29.205344.601716@sue.cc.uregina.ca>

>Don't laugh too hard.  Some new-car warranties require that you take your
>car to the dealership for an oil-change.  The difference, of course, is that
>the oil change itself is included in these warranties.

That's no longer true; there was either a court decision or a law passed
to prevent manufacturers from disallowing warrenty claims because service
wasn't done at the dealer.

However, the ruling/law is probably very specific in dealing with
automobiles, so I don't know if ther is any precedent here.

Besides (AND EVERYONE PLEASE READ THIS), despite what was said in
BYTE and on this newsgroup, here's what the 4000 manual actually says
in regards to installation of cards:

"Installation of internal options should be performed by an authorized
Commodore dealer/service center or by a knowledgeable technicians.
Commodore will not be liable for any damages or injuries caused by
improper installation of expansion equipment".

So everybody seems to be talking without reading the book. The
book DOES NOT mention the warrenty being voided. The book DOES NOT
mention ONLY an authorized dealer must do the service. The book
DOES say that if you don't know what you're doing and screw up the
computer its your problem.

TomK@cup.portal.com
Tom Krotchko
From: peterk@cbmger.de.so.commodore.com (Dr Peter Kittel Germany)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
Subject: Re: Dan got the Amiga 1000!
Date: 28 Dec 92 11:13:32 GMT
Reply-To: peterk@cbmger.de.so.commodore.com (Dr Peter Kittel Germany)
Organization: Commodore Germany

In article <1992Dec23.053811.10127@usl.edu> das9674@usl.edu (Stephenson Daniel A) writes:
>
>1) FLICKER-O-RAMA

Well, sort of fixed by new display modes on newer Amigas.

>2) They should have orange and blue as the default colors.

Fixed since WB/KS 2.0.

>3) The windowing is rather adnaced for way back then.  A Shell resizes
>fine and all.
>4) The scrollbars *are* proportional after all!  Yay!

Yes, nice, isn't it?

>5) The pointer looks goofy.

I never had problems with it, must be personal preference. AND you can
edit it easily to your taste.

>How in hell do I kill a Shell?!  

There is the ENDCLI command.

>Why can't I drag a window DOWN so that part of it 'hangs' off the side or
>bottom?

It's impossible. Period, sorry.

>I am Deluxe Paint II here.  I can 'drag' the screen down in it... is that
>supposed to do something?  

Yes, so you can look at another screen and all going on on it simultaneously.
E.g. I used to demo a PC Bridgeboard with this (under MS-DOS!): This can
support a monochrome text mode and a CGA-compatible graphics mode (well,
at least, it's CGA :-). Then Lotus 1-2-3 supports a dual-monitor mode
where one display contains the spreadsheet as text and the other shows some
graphics of the same data. On the Amiga, I had both screens open, dragged
one of them down ca. half way and could watch them simultaneously. - Or
you can have two different applications, both with own screens, be visible
at once, or even more than two.

>How do I toggle from the paint program
>and the WorkBench (which is 1.3.2, by the way)

First there are those "depth" (fore/background) gadgets in the right top
of the screen. Then you have also a keyboard command: Under OS 1.3 and
earlier it's Left-Amiga-N to bring the WB screen to front and
Left-Amiga-M to put it in the back (you can't get to every screen this
way, therefore:); under OS 2.0 and later this is partly configurable,
but normally you use that Left-Amiga-M now to simply page through all
existing screens.

>Real quick like - how do I change the resolution of the workbench, and
>the colors?

Use OS 2.0 or later :-). There are Preferences for this. Earlier OSes
don't provide this.

>Where can I get the Work Bench Lander thing?  Peter da Silva, you know what
>I mean?

Standard answer: Somewhere on the Fish disks. Let's see: disk 100, 114.

-- 
Best regards, Dr. Peter Kittel  // E-Mail to \\  Only my personal opinions...
Commodore Frankfurt, Germany  \X/ {uunet|pyramid|rutgers}!cbmvax!cbmger!peterk
Wer's nicht kann, soll's bleiben klopfen oder Steine lassen!
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
From: dtiberio@engws10.ic.sunysb.edu (David Tiberio)
Subject: Re: CBM mention on 12/11
Organization: State University of New York at Stony Brook
Date: Wed, 23 Dec 1992 01:33:40 GMT

In article <1992Dec22.171030.21984@sol.ctr.columbia.edu> jerry@msi.com (Jerry Shekhel) writes:
>David Tiberio (dtiberio@engws10.ic.sunysb.edu) wrote:
>:
>: 	Wrong, the Atari 400 and the C64, with all their screen interrupts,
>: can not display multiple screens like the Amiga can...
>:
>
>No David, *you* are wrong.  The Atari 400 had hardware very similar to Copper.
>If a full multitasking OS were feasible on that machine, it would be trivial
>to implement Amiga-like screens on it.

	No Shekhy, *you* are wrong, unless you can name ONE Atari 400 
application that can move screens using interrupts. 

>: an Atari ST can do a 
>: Boing! demo, but not like the Amiga can. You have obviously never used an
>: Amiga...
>: 		
>
>Ha.  Even that same Atari 400 had a Boing demo that was almost as good as the
>original Amiga one.  And please stop telling me what I have and have not
>used.  I used an Amiga for three years in college.

	Yet you don't know what the difference between a windowing Mac is
and a windowing Amiga? You are like Marc Barrett, but Jerry Shekhy.

>| JERRY J. SHEKHEL  | Molecular Simulations Inc. | Time just fades the pages |



-- 

      Amiga Graphics Association BBS (516) 473-6351  24 HRS 14.4 v.32bis
Thanks Gwen. Like I said, I had faith in #3. At least it answers the phone now.
	
                                                                            
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
From: das9674@usl.edu (Stephenson Daniel A)
Subject: Dan got the Amiga 1000!
Organization: University of Southwestern Louisiana
Date: Wed, 23 Dec 1992 05:38:11 GMT

Okay, here are some first impression, and some question.  You Amigans
*barely* advocated the Amiga enough for me to see about getting one,
and I have: an Amiga1000, with half Meg, a 1080 monitor with a broken
speaker, and an extra floppy drive.  I almost gave up on
this group, what with Amigoid Whackos telling me, a DUMB PC USER,
to 'go away' and all.

Yea, verily, this about the rock-bottom as far as Amigas go, and surely
isn't representational, say, of Dan Barrett's mega-Amiga (wanna let me
borrow it? 8) ), and some of you will tell me to compare it to a
1985 PC, etc etc.  Go ahead and waste your time; I'll ignore those 
replies.. it is trivial to type 'd' at the end of you email...

Anyway, here are my First Impressions:

1) FLICKER-O-RAMA
2) They should have orange and blue as the default colors.
3) The windowing is rather adnaced for way back then.  A Shell resizes
fine and all.
4) The scrollbars *are* proportional after all!  Yay!
5) The pointer looks goofy.
6) Real Low Res-Like.

Question, please:

How in hell do I kill a Shell?!  (for example)  Some things have that
square-with-a-dot in the top left, you click on it and it goes away.
But sometimes there isn't one...and it just stays there.

Why can't I drag a window DOWN so that part of it 'hangs' off the side or
bottom?

I am Deluxe Paint II here.  I can 'drag' the screen down in it... is that
supposed to do something?  How do I toggle from the paint program
and the WorkBench (which is 1.3.2, by the way)

Real quick like - how do I change the resolution of the workbench, and
the colors?

Also does someone know how I might hook this baby up to my 386 (which has
an internal modem) and use a term program FROM the AMiga?  You know, 
route it through my PC, going straight to the modem?  That way I
can download stuff.                                  

Where can I get the Work Bench Lander thing?  Peter da Silva, you know what
I mean?

-Dan
.


 
--
Dan Stephenson                                         das9674@usl.edu  
"Yes Dan, I have heard of Ultima Underworld.  From my point of view it
 appears to be a rather large stick which you seem to be using to beat
 everbody in this group with." -Mark Steyn, comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
From: jerry@msi.com (Jerry Shekhel)
Subject: Re: CBM mention on 12/11/92 Computer Chronicles
Organization: Molecular Simulations, Inc.
Date: Mon, 28 Dec 1992 20:14:36 GMT
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1 PL8]
X-Posted-From: hemi.msi.com
NNTP-Posting-Host: sol.ctr.columbia.edu

Gregory R Block (bloc1469@ee.ee.uwm.edu) wrote:
:
: The point was this:  Just because a million people buy something
: doesn't mean that what they bought is anything of
: worth/value/craftsmanship.  MS-DOS fails to be a miracle of software
: engineering by just a bit, and yet here it is, the most popular
: non-OS since...  Well, since never.  Never before have millions of
: people made a move towards running a program-loader rather than a real
: operating system.  Anyways, that was the point.
:

Your point about sales vs. quality is obvious.  However, why do you call DOS
a non-OS?  Even the ROMs in my Atari 800 were called an OS.  It seems like
the term changes meaning as time goes by.  If that's the case, then this
discussion is pointless.

:
: No, everybody'd be buying machines that had some technical merit,
: likely.
:

Your opinions are showing again!

:
: Anyways, again, that's NOT the point.  Millions of people
: buying something doesn't make that something good.  I suppose that,
: under you above statement...
:
: Since MS-DOS sold millions and millions of copies, C= should consider
: wiping out everything in AmigaOS except LoadSeg?
:

My statement was about Windows, not DOS.  AmigaOS lacks certain features of
Windows, and vice versa.  The point is, they are different; they were designed
for different markets and purposes, so comparing them is like comparing
Porsches to Mercedes-Benz S-Class sedans.

:
: Again, it's your sweeping generalizations that bite you in the ass.
:

What generalizations?  Careful, though; make sure you only list things I
actually said.  Mr. Bickers has posted enough lies already.

:
: Agreed, that was a bit off.  However, claiming that Windows is
: suddenly God's gift to Software Architecture isn't a whole lot better.
:

I never made any such claim.  I only objected to John's Windows-bashing.
You seem to have perceived it as a claim of Windows superiority.  It wasn't.

:
: Unfortunately, Windows falls to the left of being a good OS, and NT
: falls way to the right.  OS/2 has a good begining.  Plan 9, OS/9,
: AmigaOS, and even SOME unix systems have hit at least part of the nail
: on the head, and have features that some high-end unix systems and
: things under design are just now getting.
:

Opinions, opinions, opinions...

: Greg
--
+-------------------+----------------------------+---------------------------+
| JERRY J. SHEKHEL  | Molecular Simulations Inc. | Time just fades the pages |
| Drummers do it... |     Burlington, MA USA     | in my book of memories.   |
|    ... In rhythm! |        jerry@msi.com       |         -- Guns N' Roses  |
+-------------------+----------------------------+---------------------------+
From: Aric.Caley@ofa123.fidonet.org
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
Subject: Re: Tandy Unveils 16-Mil
X-Sender: newtout 0.02 Nov 17 1992
Date: 20 Dec 92  18:19:02

In article <BzKosp.2zF@news.iastate.edu>
barrett@iastate.edu (Marc N. Barrett) writes:
>
>   Tandy has finally announced their new desktop MPC-
> compatible computer system
>with a 16-million-color display and CD-ROM drive as standard hardware.

Clarification:   16  million  colour  PALETTE.   From  what  I saw, it most
definately  was  NOT  a true 24 bit display, but rather, a typical SVGA 256
colour display.

>It is called the "Sensation" and carries a list price of $2100.  They have
>been advertizing it like mad, as you can expect from Tandy.  My question is:
>when will we ever see anything like this from Commodore?  How hard could it
>possibly be to stick a CD-ROM drive into an A4000 and sell it, anyway?
>
>   It looks like Commodore really is going to be the last major personal
>computer company to bring out a desktop computer with a CD-ROM drive. Really
>pathetic.

You're really pathetic.

I've  seen  the  Sensation,  I was not particularly impressed.  I saw it do
some  *small*  "windows"  of  video; it was NOT 30fps - it was jerky.  They
were  NOT  24  bit,  or  anywhere  near 24 bit, and I could clearly see the
pixels.  This machine has a 486 CPU.

I've  also  seen  Commodore's  CDTV  with  the  "thingy  that gives it more
colours"  (I have NO idea what the name of this card is) - this machine was
doing  much  larger  areas of video, with "full colour" - enough that I did
not  see  pixels,  it looked like TV.  This is a machine with a wimpy 68000
CPU.

It  seems  like  the A4000 was designed with CD-ROM in mind - what with the
5.25"  drive  bay and all.  I think Commodore should get that new CDTV with
better  graphics  out  there  pronto, and then start bundling CD-ROM drives
with  A4000's.   And  if they continue the track they are on now, I actualy
think they WILL do this.

As for last, not even:  What about Atari?  At least Commodore has the CDTV.

>---
>| Marc Barrett -MB-  |  email: barrett@iastate.edu
>--------------------------------------------------

 -Dances With Coyotes - World's slowest programer-Given that God is infinate-
 -AKA Dances V2.0, Coyote, Critter, Magnet, Major-and  that  the universe is-
 -- Former Net-Lurker - YES, an AMIGA godammit! --also  infinate,  would you-
 --- Still limping along with AmigaOS 1.3  :(  ---like a toasted  tea  cake?-


--- Maximus 2.01wb
From: jbickers@templar.actrix.gen.nz (John Bickers)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
Subject: Re: Don't let the Amiga Die (Part II)!!!
Date: 28 Dec 92 11:59:10 PST
Organization: TAP

Quoted from <1992Dec27.202755.28765@sol.ctr.columbia.edu> by jerry@msi.com (Jerry Shekhel):

> No offense, but I'll take a textbook definition over yours any day :-P

    It is easy to find a bogus textbook, and it's not my definition
    you were arguing with, it was Peter's. And his is backed by years
    of experience in the industry. It is also very similar to the
    opinion held by many others who have been working on computers
    since the punched-card days.

    It is also an opinion held by respectable IBM employees, when it
    comes time for them to advocate OS/2. DOS did the job it had to
    do, but it isn't a "real" OS.

> | JERRY J. SHEKHEL  | Molecular Simulations Inc. | Time just fades the pages |
--
*** John Bickers, TAP.                   jbickers@templar.actrix.gen.nz ***
***    "Radioactivity - It's in the air, for you and me" - Kraftwerk    ***
From: bjorn@darmok.uoregon.edu (Bjorn S. Fjeld Pettersen)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
Subject: Re: IBM and MAC users, please respond.
Date: 3 Jan 93 22:45:18 GMT
Article-I.D.: pith.1i7q9uINNhu6
Distribution: comp
Organization: University of Oregon Network Services
NNTP-Posting-Host: cisco-ts2-line65.uoregon.edu

In article <C05Dvs.3I1@mentor.cc.purdue.edu> kodak@mentor.cc.purdue.edu (Jason  
'KodaK' Balicki) writes:
> 
> Ok, this is a legitimate question and I mean no offense by it (yet :),
> where other people take the thread, however, is not my fault.
> 
> How did you MAC and IBM users find this group and why did you decide to
> jump in and offer your opinions?  Were you invited?  Did some Amiga user
> wind up in a MAC|IBM group and say something deragatory and you felt you
> had to retaliate?  Did you seek it out?  :)
> 
> --Jason Balicki
> kodak@mentor.cc.purdue.edu

I am not a Mac or IBM user (yuch!), but you have to realize that the .advocacy  
are open to everyone (*sigh*). In .next.advocacy we often have Mac-,  
Microsoft-, SGI- people etc. giving their opinions. Most of the time what they  
have to say is constructive/informative, but we do have the occational people  
who just like to hear their own voices (or was that see their own typing :) --  
from what I have seen these people are either Mac-fanatics who think all other  
GUIs are dirt (even if they have never tried them), or Clone-freaks (tm) who  
think no other platform has any applications. I guess the same is going on over  
here. It is annoying, but if you edit your .kill file most of them can usually  
be filtered out.

To summarize: Most people (non-amiga-users) come here to see what is going on;  
some like to complain (about everything); and there is very little anyone can  
do about it.

--Bjorn
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Bjorn S. Fjeld Pettersen
bjorn@doek.uoregon.edu                       NextMail Welcomed
#include <std-disclaimer.h>
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Xref: sparky comp.sys.amiga.advocacy:32240 comp.sys.amiga.misc:19117
From: peter@NeoSoft.com (Peter da Silva)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy,comp.sys.amiga.misc
Subject: Re: Don't let the Amiga Die (Part II)!!!
Date: 27 Dec 92 18:32:40 GMT
Article-I.D.: NeoSoft.BzxKuJ.G3J
Organization: NeoSoft Communications Services -- (713) 684-5900

In article <1992Dec27.112627.6130@random.ccs.northeastern.edu> jsg@ccs.northeastern.edu (Jonas S Green) writes:
> >WP is a dog.. porting it to the amiga is like porting MS-DOS to the Amiga.  

> Word Perfect is a MUCH MUCH more powerful word processor than anything found
> on the Amiga. Unfortunate but true.. 

And troff, TeX, and Lout are much much more powerful text processors than Word
Perfect. If you just want to produce the best quality product, use one of these
tools, or a full page-layout program. If you want user-friendliness you're
already making compromises on quality, so why go with a user-hostile product
like Word-perfect?

As for dealers... I just went down to the local Amiga dealer to get "Oh No
More Lemmings" and checked out the 4000. I decided to play "Windows Head" and
asked if they had a help system on the Amiga... I'd been told that there was
this thing called "Guide". They couldn't find a *single* program that used
AmigaGuide, and tried to tell me that the Amiga was better because it didn't
waste space on online documentation. Now I'm a member of the Committee for
the Common Man, a group working on standards for online documentation, so that
was the *WRONG* thing to say.

Damnit, Commodore, how long would it take to put AmigaGuide docs for all the
workbench tools online?

As for spreadsheets, databases, and so on... we don't find them very useful
on PCs, because there's virtually no communication tools (even with Novell all
through the building, they still use sneakernet because it's more reliable).
Our UNIX boxes, however, are a different matter.

Between Amiga and UNIX, what more do I need?
-- 
Peter da Silva.  <peter@sugar.neosoft.com>.
 `-_-'   Oletko halannut suttasi t dn d dn?
  'U`    
Tarjoilija, t dm d ateria el d d viel d.
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy,comp.sys.amiga.misc
From: jbw@ponder.csci.unt.edu (WEST JASON BRUCE)
Subject: Re: Don't let the Amiga Die (Part II)!!!
Organization: University of North Texas, Denton
Date: Fri, 1 Jan 1993 05:38:12 GMT

In article <Bzsy4q.1yA@mentor.cc.purdue.edu> thwang@mentor.cc.purdue.edu (Tommy Hwang) writes:
>>> [ bandwidth-reducing deletia... ]
>>> 
>>> #1.Most Amiga games CANNOT multitask, with, say a download (which is
>>> what we were discussing.
>>
>
>     Corrections, Most Amiga games that I want to play, ie. fighter simulaters,
>and war games (not stragity), does not run on my amiga.  If it does, I need
>to press my 2 mouse buttons and reboot.  What a hassel, besides many don't
>even run no matter what I do.
>     As the energizer rabbit seemed to indicate,  Still waiting and waiting and waiting (for the new SCALA MM200 and other AA softwares).
>
>                                                         -TKH '92
>

    WHAT?!?  Fight simulators like what?  Flight, tank, what do you mean?
Falcon is one hell of a flight simulator [The Isreal air force uses multiple
Amigas running falcon for training].
    What do you they do not run on your Amiga.  I have an A3000 with 2.1 ROM -
one of the most "incompatable" machine.  And Shadow of the Beast I is the ONLY
game I havn't been able to degrade/hack/slow-down into playing.

Ciao...


                                                 - Jason

Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy,comp.sys.amiga.misc
From: mathers@sibelius.trl.OZ.AU (Steven Mathers)
Subject: Re: Don't let the Amiga Die (Part II)!!!
Reply-To: s.mathers@trl.oz.au
Organization: Telecom Research Labs, Melbourne, Australia
Date: Thu, 31 Dec 1992 02:52:12 GMT

In article <1htbmhINNpkd@news.aero.org>, foy@aero.org (Richard Foy) writes:
|> In article <Bzns93.D6v@NeoSoft.com> peter@NeoSoft.com (Peter da Silva) writes:
|> ...
|> >
|> >On a single-drive machine the best you could probably manage would be to use
|> >a word-processor or spreadsheet. You know, the things most DOS users do most
|> >of the time.
|> >
|> ...
|> >Peter da Silva.  <peter@sugar.neosoft.com>.
|> 
|> 
|> It used to bother me a lot when I would read threads like this one. I would 
|> get angry at the way people would believe the hype about the DOS machines.
|> 
|> Perhaps it was because my first computer was a TI-99/4A which became an
|> orphan early on. So I was concerned that the Amiga might become an orphan. 
|> 
|> Now I am not concerned. I know that any Amiga is the most cost effective
|> machine, in particular for things like video, animations etc.
|> 
|> Many people complain about how the youth of today don't read, how they 
|> just watch TV or play video games. That is a silly complaint. The world
|> of today ane even more so of tomorrow will be a world in which communicating
|> will be done by video etc. How did Clinton win the election. Primarily by
|> good use of the video world.
|> 
|> So I believe that the people who use DOS machines, who primarily use
|> them for word processors and spreadsheets, will become the second class
|> citizens of the future. Those who work with Amigas and perhaps MACs wil
|> become the world leaders of the future. 

Thanks for the laugh...ha ha...you WERE joking?
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
From: das9674@usl.edu (Stephenson Daniel A)
Subject: Re: NO MORE *&#*$(^*& FEMALE BIMBO ADS!!!!!!!!
Organization: University of Southwestern Louisiana
Date: Tue, 22 Dec 1992 18:35:32 GMT

Hey!
What is all this GUNS VS. CRIME stuff doing under THIS Subject heading?!

When *I* read "Re: NO MORE *&#*$(^*& FEMALE BIMBO ADS!!!!!!!!
articles I wanna read about WOMEN!  Lounging over computer peripherals...
you know.

8) 8)
--
Dan Stephenson                                         das9674@usl.edu  
"Yes Dan, I have heard of Ultima Underworld.  From my point of view it
 appears to be a rather large stick which you seem to be using to beat
 everbody in this group with." -Mark Steyn, comp.sys.amiga.advocacy