HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: jle@locus.com (John Elghani/10000000)
Subject: Re: ISLAMIC WORLD NEWS (28th)
Organization: LC
Date: Wed, 02 Sep 1992 21:56:38 GMT

In article <0zknzzj.rdc@netcom.com> rdc@netcom.com (Rachel Dafni Christy) writes:
>imnet2@max.u.washington.edu writes:
>
>>OCCUPIED PALESTINE
>^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>
>HEY, ASSHOLE.  IN THE 2000 YEARS SINCE ISRAEL WAS LAST A NATION, HOW
>MANY OTHER NATIONS WERE THERE IN PALESTINE?  ZERO.  NOT ONE NATION.
>IT WAS ALWAYS A COLONY.  UNTIL ISRAEL.
>
>THE ARABS WHO HAPPENED TO BE LIVING IN PALESTINE IN THE 1900's HAVE NO
>HOMELAND BECAUSE THEY HAVE NO CULTURAL DISTINCTIONS FROM OTHER ARABS.
>THEY ARE NOT A SEPARATE PEOPLE, AND BEFORE THE 1950'S THERE WAS NO
>TERM AS 'PALESTINIAN'.  IT WAS INVENTED.

HEY STUPID RACHEL, WHY DON'T YOU LEARN SOME HISTORY AND SOME MANNERS
INSTEAD OF BEING A JERK.  WHAT PARTITION OF PALESTINE IS ALL ABOUT?
GO BACK AND READ THE BELFORD ACCORD, OR BELFORD PROMISE.  READ
UN STATEMENTS OF 1925.  ARE WE STUCK WITH AN IDIOT HERE OR WHAT?
IT IS THE TERM ISRAEL THAT APPLIES TO YOUR STUPID STATEMENTS RATHER.
ACCORDINGLY, BEAT IT, OR SUCK THIS CARROT.

jle
From: oueichek@ngulu (Ibaa Oueichek)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.arabic
Subject: Re: ARAB/IRANIAN --Harmony
Date: 31 Aug 92 15:29:52 GMT
Organization: IMAG, University of Grenoble, France
X-Newsreader: Tin 1.1 PL4

martillo@stars.clearpoint.com (Joachim Martillo) writes:
: In article <1992Aug29.054729.1100@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu> lhermi@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (Lotfi Hermi) writes:
: 
: >Did any of the netters come upon any writings by traditional Muslim Ulema
: >from Iran in which the question of culture, or nationality has been discussed.
: >I mean people such as Imam-e-Ghazali, or any Muslim thinker of the past. 
: 
: Actually, from the 3rd Islamic century onward, there is a lot of
: writing on the question whether Black Africans are truly capable of
: being true believers and on the question of mistreating Black African
: Muslims.  The many condemnations of anti-Black prejudice implies that
: anti-Black prejudice has been quite prevalent in the Islamic world.
: Such anti-Black prejudice is probably the source of anti-Black
: prejudice in the West and may be related to the the principle of kafaa
: in marriage which may be tied to ethnochauvinist concepts.

 Well, i can't deny there was an anti-Black prejudice in the Islamic world,
it was partly inherited from the Pre-Islamic tribal era. History tells about
a "slave revolution" a la Spartakos, and African slaves (to distinguish them
from other slaves) succeeded to establish a mini-state for a while (i can't
dig the exact references now, but i can ask someone to check it if anyone
is interested). But this prejudice didn't stop Kafoor Al Ekhsheedi to become
the ruler of Egypt for more than 40 years (unfortunately, there are very few
documents about his rule, but this few tells that he was one of the most fair
rulers).
  The Western anti-Black prejudice is much more dangerous because it wasn't
inherited from the dark ages, but invented and backed up by a religious theory
(the curse of the sons of Canaan by Noah, and how they'll become slaves to
their cousins), it can be better compared with the "scientific" anti-semitism
developed by Nazis before and during the WWII.

--
Sham(u) ya tha (s)seif(u) lam yaghib(i) | Ibaa Oueichek. oueichek@imag.imag.fr
    Ya jamal(al) majd(i) fi(l) kutub(i) | LABORATOIRE 	BULL-IMAG
Kablak(i) (t)tareekh(u) fi thulmaten    | Grenoble. 
    Baadak(i) staula ala (sh)shuhub(i)  |
From: oueichek@ngulu (Ibaa Oueichek)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.arabic
Subject: Re: Test ( this is only a test )
Date: 4 Sep 92 09:04:40 GMT
Organization: IMAG, University of Grenoble, France
X-Newsreader: Tin 1.1 PL4

hermi@shape.mps.ohio-state.edu (Lotfi Hermi) writes:
: "Fa itha ja'a wa'du al-akhirati li yassuou woujouhakum 
: wa li-yadkhulu al-masjida kama dakhaluhu awalla marratin 
: wa li yutabbiru ma 'allaou tatbira. 'Assa Rabukum an yarhamakun 
: wa in 'udtum udna wa ja'alna jahannama lil-kafirina hassira"

 Sounds too long for a "test" message.

--
Sham(u) ya tha (s)seif(u) lam yaghib(i) | Ibaa Oueichek. oueichek@imag.imag.fr
    Ya jamal(al) majd(i) fi(l) kutub(i) | LABORATOIRE 	BULL-IMAG
Kablak(i) (t)tareekh(u) fi thulmaten    | Grenoble. 
    Baadak(i) staula ala (sh)shuhub(i)  |
					
Newsgroups: soc.culture.arabic,alt.butt.harp
From: klm@gozer.mv.com (Kevin L. McBride)
Subject: Re: ISLAMIC WORLD NEWS (28th)
Followup-To: soc.culture.arabic,misc.test
Organization: GhostBuster Central - Southern NH Usenet Access, Nashua, NH
Date: Fri, 04 Sep 92 18:22:01 GMT

ronf@panther3.panther.mot.com (Ron Feigen) writes:

> Rob,

> You are obviousely miss informed.

No, *you* are misinformed.  You have followed an inappropriate
cross-post into alt.butt.harp.  Please edit the Newsgroups: line and
be gone.

Thank you.
Xref: sparky soc.culture.arabic:3503 talk.bizarre:28562
From: rwd4f@poe.acc.Virginia.EDU (Rob Dobson)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.arabic,talk.bizarre
Subject: Re: ISLAMIC WORLD NEWS (28th)
Date: 2 Sep 92 20:32:10 GMT
Followup-To: soc.culture.arabic,alt.butt.harp
Organization: University of Virginia

> rdc@netcom.com (Roger "Im not racist, i just hate arabs" Carasso) Spews:

>
>ISRAEL IS A DEMOCRACY.  AND JUST LIKE ANY OTHER DEMOCRACY, YOU HAVE TO
>BE A CITIZEN TO VOTE.  ALL ARABS WHO WERE IN ISRAEL IN 1948 BECAME
>CITIZENS AND COULD VOTE.  ALL OTHERS FLED.
>

Democracy or not, Roger, Isreal is in FLAGRANT VIOLATION of dozens of UN
resolutions, including the very resolution that created the Isreali state.

And until there is an Arab government in this area co-existing with the 
Israeli government, they will still be in violation. regardless of what 
the arabs do, if Israel does not allow the creation of a Palestinian state,
they are in violation of international law.

Case closed, NEXT.
Xref: sparky soc.culture.arabic:3500 soc.culture.pakistan:14424
From: aaldoubo@copper.denver.colorado.edu (Anisa Alnoor Aldoubosh)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.arabic,soc.culture.pakistan
Subject: Re: ISLAMIC BROTHERHOOD
Date: 2 Sep 92 20:00:45 GMT
Followup-To: soc.culture.arabic
Organization: University of Colorado at Denver

In article <EebgvEu00VpFQDMFNI@andrew.cmu.edu> ag3l+@andrew.cmu.edu (Arun K. Gupta) writes:
>
>There are so many people in trouble all over the world that
>if some are wept for then it is better than if all went un-
>mourned.

Oh Muslims, I weep in the dark for you ....


Anisa

Newsgroups: soc.culture.arabic
From: sdodd@OES.ORST.EDU (Stephen M Dodd)
Subject: Looking for a brother
Organization: Oregon Extension Service, Oregon State University, Corvallis, Or.
Date: Fri, 4 Sep 1992 04:41:06 GMT

I promised to post this message for a brother from Misr.

Omar

From mbedier@fisher.ucdavis.edu Thu Sep  3 12:32:11 1992
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From: mbedier@fisher.ucdavis.edu (M. Bedier)
Date: Thu, 3 Sep 92 12:31:25 -0700
Message-Id: <9209031931.AA04496@fisher.ucdavis.edu>
To: sdodd@nostromo.OES.ORST.EDU
Status: RO

aslam aliekm brother omar
By the way, do you know Brother Hesham Al-rweny's e-mail address. 
He is at University Cincinati.
W salam aliekm. 

				mostafa

-- 
- Stephen M. Dodd, System Analyst, Oregon Extension Service
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
sdodd@oes.orst.edu          Internet          Oregon State University
503-737-3550                                  Corvallis, OR 97331
Xref: sparky soc.culture.arabic:3479 soc.culture.african:4504 soc.culture.afghanistan:919
From: tomf@ai.bunny.gte.com (Tom Fawcett)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.arabic
Subject: Re: ISLAMIC WORLD NEWS (28th)
Date: 3 Sep 92 22:37:11 GMT
Reply-To: tomf@gte.com
Organization: GTE Laboratories Inc.
In-reply-to: ronf@panther3.panther.mot.com's message of 3 Sep 92 17:28:44 GMT


> Hey, everbody (jle, Rached, Johnathan, ect...):
> 
> 1) Stop shouting please.  
> 2) Stop with the vile language, it is really not needed.  Beside regardless
> of who you are "flaming", the profanity is inappropriate.  Really the
> "flamer" look bad, not the "flamee", so really it is conterproductive to
> your "cause".


3) Stop cross-posting to talk.bizarre.  This pretty much obviates 1 and 2.


-Tom

PS.  Hi Rachel!  Don't you think it's time you left alone the nice people
on soc.culture.arabic.  Time to move on, little one.
Xref: sparky soc.culture.arabic:3526 soc.culture.jewish:15377 soc.culture.turkish:9713 soc.culture.pakistan:14466 soc.culture.afghanistan:938
From: martillo@stars.clearpoint.com (Joachim Martillo)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.arabic,talk.politics.misc,talk.politics.mideast
Subject: Re: Answering Mr. Nabil
Date: 23 Aug 92 19:35:19 GMT
Followup-To: soc.culture.arabic,talk.politics.misc,talk.politics.mideast
Organization: Clearpoint Inc., Hopkinton, MA

In article <IeZvGPy00VAwQ0q4AE@andrew.cmu.edu> ag3l+@andrew.cmu.edu (Arun K. Gupta) writes:

>When the U.S. conquered Germany and Japan in WWII, the first thing
>it did was allow free trade union activity, and soon afterwards,
>free political activity. In not doing the same in Kuwait, the US
>has missed an opportunity to have been the cause of the region's
>first democracy. Big mistake, in my opinion.

>-arun gupta

This analogy is rather faulty.  The US liberated Kuwait just as the
Allies liberated France.  The US defeated Iraq just as the US defeated
Germany.  Now perhaps the US should have occupied Iraq as the allies
occupied Germany, and there is good reason for the debaathification,
de-arabization and de-islamification of Iraq in analogy with the
de-nazification of Germany but if the US is going to start eradicating
mindlessly stupid indigenous cultures throughout the world, not only
should Iraq precede Kuwait, but India would also precede Kuwait as a
candidate for dismemberment, cultural obliteration, assimilation to
modern civilized Western culture and reform.

Joachim Carlo Santos Martillo Ajami
--
Joachim Carlo Santos Martillo Ajami

The article represents noone's opinions other than the author's.
Newsgroups: soc.culture.arabic
From: mmokhtar@attmail.com (Mazen Mokhtar)
Subject: Re: Spoken Arabic
Originator: mmdh@cbnewsf.cb.att.com
Keywords: language
Organization: AT&T
Date: Thu, 27 Aug 1992 17:12:52 GMT

In article <3883@keele.keele.ac.uk> cla02@seq1.keele.ac.uk (R. Wallace) writes:

>The countries I regularly visit are Egypt, Jordan, Syria, Palestine,
>Morocco, Algieria, Tunisia, and Libya. Obviously, this covers a wide
>spectrum of vernaculars. Which would be the best bet to choose?

  Since you already know Arabic, you probably know that every dialect cn
be understood, but sometimes with difficulty.

>Which would be most widely understood?

  The most widely undersood is the Egyptian dialect. Egypt is the largest
Arab country in population and Egyptian TV shows are shown in all Arab
countries. Another widely understood family of dialects is shami. The
dialects in Syria, Jordan, Palestine and Lebanon are not too different. The
Iraqi and Syrian dialects also have the advantage of being closer to classical
Arabic than the Egyptian dialect for example.

> Which would be most acceptable to speakers of other vernaculars?

  Shami, Iraqi and Egyptian dialects are acceptable and easily recognized.
By shami I am refering to the dialects of Syria, Jordan, Palestine and
Lebanon.

>I would be quite interested to hear what Arabic speakers think about the
>different colloquial versions of the language. As I am sure you know, in
>English, some dialects have a higher prestige than others; some are
>regarded by outsiders as rather comical; 

  Each Arabic dialect is sometimes considered comical somewhere, but the
Nubian (Egypt/Sudan border) and Sudani dialects are considered comical more
often than others.

>others are virtually
>incomprehensible to any who doesn't speak them (like my own - I
>originate in the North East of England, and had to learn Standard
>English almost as a second language!) Is this sort of thing true about
>Arabic?

  Yemeni, Gulf dialects, Sudani and Saeedi (Upper Egypt) are among the harder
ones to understand. The Maghreb dialects (Tunisia, Algeria and Morocco) are
sometimes hard to understand because they borrowed so much from French, that
is unless you speak French.

>Thank you for the help!

  You're welcome.

Mazen Mokhtar
From: bakken@cs.arizona.edu (Dave Bakken)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.arabic
Subject: Re: ISLAMIC BROTERHOOD - BOSNIA V/S SOMALIA
Date: 1 Sep 92 20:52:16 GMT
Organization: U of Arizona CS Dept, Tucson

In article <4853@daily-planet.concordia.ca> ilyess@davinci.concordia.ca (Ilyess Bdira) writes:
>2) The idea of a Muslim state in Europe is very appealing to
>Islamic movements. It is something that all western European
>countries want to avoid also, thus their hypocritical approach.
>Why? because it shows Europeans that Islam is not a stranger, and
>it is not confined to the third world (although I consider most
>former Yugoslav republics third world countries).

I find it hard to believe that the secular governments of western
Europe (whose citizens are almost totally secular or nominally religious
people) have religion as a primary factor in their political
calculations.  However, if they have concluded that Islam (or
factions of it) is a totalitarian ideology that tries to export
revolution then they would almost certainly do what they could
to oppose it, just as they did with the totalitarian,
revolution-exporting ideology of communism.  (It is not
clear to me if they have concluded this.)  Note that they
are mainly concerned with the external behavior, not the
internal beliefs or customs that do not harm anyone else.

>I still believe that those two reasons above are not enough, and
>I am for a strong Muslim country with  a clean image and I do not care
>if it is in Europe or Africa. The only way to clean the distorted image
>of Islam is 
>1)To clean up our house,
>2)To have a strong economy and a respected army, because in this world 
>only the strong and successful is respected.
>
>That is precisely the goal of all Islamic movements in Muslim
                               ^^^
>countries.

This is a very broad statement, don't you think?  Or are
Islamic-looking movements that don't precisely have this as
a goal simply not Islamic, by your definition and/or the Qur`an's?

I think you are missing a goal here.  It seems to me that many of the
more vocal Islamic movements also hope to set up Islamic states 
all over the world.  Of course, this in no way means that all
Muslims believe this.
--
Dave Bakken                               Internet: bakken@cs.arizona.edu
Dept. of Computer Science; U of Arizona   Voice:    +1 602 621 4089      
Tucson, AZ 85721; USA                     FAX:      +1 602 621 4246
The fact that you're paranoid doesn't prove they're *not* out to get you.
Newsgroups: soc.culture.arabic
From: mstgil@sol.acs.unt.edu (Marc Ph. A. J. St.-Gil - Solbourne Administrator)
Subject: SUMMARY: hunting for meaning of a phrase
Reply-To: mstgil@sol.acs.unt.edu
Organization: University of North Texas
Date: Wed, 2 Sep 1992 22:39:18 GMT

Thank you very much to everyone who replied.  I had acutally guessed that
the busah part was kiss, from a Turkish-English transliterated dictionary I
found in our library.  I recalled that the middle english word for kiss was
buss and the word buse in Turkish is also kiss.  I would never have guessed
Moroccan.  It would appear that someone where she works knows some of the
lingo from there.  ;)  The original plea is included below.

the correct answers were:

ken(or ben for Egyptians I am told) hab-buk'  ==  I love you.
ah-ten'-i bu'-sah                             ==  Give me a kiss. or Kiss me.

Again, Thanks Much,
Marc

mstgil@sol.acs.unt.edu (Marc Ph. A. J. St.-Gil - Solbourne Administrator) writes:
>Hi,
>    My girlfriend has challenged me to find the meaning of these 2 phrases
>which I suspect may be some form of Arabic, but she won't even give me the
>origin.  Can anyone out there please help me out?  The phrases are:
>
>ken hab-buk'    and     ah-ten'-i bu'-sah
>
>the spellings are my mangled phoneticisms of her mangled pronunciation, so
>please forgive me.  I imagine these phrases are likely to be slightly erotic
>in nature (I suspect the ah-ten'-i bu'-sah of having to do with kissing.)
>
>Anyway, if you can help I would really appreciate it.
>
>Thanks,
>Marc
From: B.Kumar@cs.ucl.ac.uk
Newsgroups: soc.culture.arabic
Subject: ISLAMIC BROTERHOOD - BOSNIA V/S SOMALIA
Date: 28 Aug 92 14:20:53 GMT


On all culture news groups flag bearer of islam have posted
messages after messages deploring sitaution in Bosnia.  Who 
is  helping   in    Bosnia?   Muslims states - NO.   Muslim 
Fundamentalists all around the world are getting hoarse crying 
for Bosnia and Islam. Islam is in DANGER once more (it was 
in Gulf war before) for these fundamentlists. Who are they 
cursing for not helping - WEST? Why the hell should WEST help 
these fundamentlists who will go tomorrow planting bombs in 
western planes and threatening Salman Rushdie and likes
with death threats at flimsiest grounds? West is under
no obligation to help. It SHOULD NOT get involved. But
west is still helping out of goodwill.

But what is happening to Somalia which has 99 percent
(compared just 30 percent population in Bosnia) *BLACK* 
MUSLIMS who are dying by THOUSANDS every day (compared
to less than few hundred in a war for which Bosnian themselves
are equally responsible) with most cruel death caused by 
starvation and hunger.  Who is helping them? Muslim States - NO.
It is the west that is helping in Somalia once again
even though they are under no obligation to do.
What happended to Islamic "Red Crescent"? Or Black
muslims are disposable commodity? Why don't these islamic 
fundamentlists collect money for Somalia which is more in 
despearte need than any one else on this earth?. Why are
the islamic governments of IRAN ,Pakistan, Bangladesh who
are all very vocal on Bosnia supply food and medicine
to Somalia or Islamic Brotherhood just stops at the gate
of Africa.

That only tells about total HYPOCRACY Of ISLAMIC BROTHERHOOD
and ISLAMIC Equality.

Regards,

bkumar
From: hermi@shape.mps.ohio-state.edu (Lotfi Hermi)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.arabic
Subject: Test ( this is only a test )
Date: 3 Sep 1992 00:00:30 -0400
Organization: Department of Mathematics, The Ohio State University
Distribution: world
NNTP-Posting-Host: shape.mps.ohio-state.edu

"Fa itha ja'a wa'du al-akhirati li yassuou woujouhakum 
wa li-yadkhulu al-masjida kama dakhaluhu awalla marratin 
wa li yutabbiru ma 'allaou tatbira. 'Assa Rabukum an yarhamakun 
wa in 'udtum udna wa ja'alna jahannama lil-kafirina hassira"

Newsgroups: soc.culture.arabic,alt.butt.harp
From: mmokhtar@attmail.com (Mazen Mokhtar)
Subject: Re: ISLAMIC WORLD NEWS (28th)
Originator: mmdh@cbnewsf.cb.att.com
Organization: AT&T
Date: Thu, 3 Sep 1992 14:00:49 GMT

rdc@netcom.com writes:
>
>ISRAEL IS A DEMOCRACY.  AND JUST LIKE ANY OTHER DEMOCRACY, YOU HAVE TO
>BE A CITIZEN TO VOTE.  ALL ARABS WHO WERE IN ISRAEL IN 1948 BECAME
>CITIZENS AND COULD VOTE.  ALL OTHERS FLED.
>

  Since when did Israel become a democracy?

  - There is no freedom of expression, for example, displaying the Palestinian
    flag is illegal. Israel is no democracy.

  - There is no freedom of association, it is illegal to associate with PLO
    members. Israel is no democracy

  - It is an apartheid state. The laws are _very_ different for Jews and
    for non-Jews, especially as far as immigration rights are concerned.
    A Palestinian born and raised in Jerusalem cannot return while a total
    stranger from Russia is welcomed, given citizenship and accomodation.
    Israel is no democracy.

  - There is no respect for human rights. Torture of Palestinians and killing
    the relatives of suspects is common. Destroying the homes if innocent
    people is common. Shutting down schools and universities is common. Denying
    building permits or permits for digging wells is common. Israel is no
    democracy.

  - Taxation without representation. Ask anyone from the occupied territories.
    Israel is no democracy.

  - Elections are not free. Mayors elected in the occupied territories were
    removed one by one, till the very last one. Israel is no democracy.

  - Israel is in violation of numerous UN resolutions. Israel is no democracy.

  - Israel is occupying Palestinian, Syrian and Lebanese territories. Israel
    is no democracy.

  No equality, no freedom, no justice, no representation, what remains ?

  Israeli democracy is a myth.


Regards,

Mazen Mokhtar

Newsgroups: soc.culture.arabic
From: merigh@cpac.washington.edu (Mohamed Merigh)
Subject: Science, Culture, and Religion
Organization: Univ. of Washington, Seattle
Date: Wed, 2 Sep 1992 02:27:55 GMT


Hi all,

	I wonder if anybody out there knows of a reference to work
	that attempts to link people's culture or degree of religious 
	conviction to innovation and/or creativity.
	Let me make myself clear: I find it quite natural that somebody 
	(P1) who does not (deeply) subscribe to any religion will end up 
	trying to answer the question "what is the meaning of life."
	A common way of finding this meaning is to talk oneself into 
	finding one's reason of being in a profession or a "scientific idea."
	This person will then strive to equate his worth with his achievement.
	This is in contrast with somebody (P2) who believes, say,
	that man is created to worship God.  Though,
	one may define "worshipping God" in such a way that it includes
	being creative/innovative, I find it very likely that P2 will
	accept things "the way they are."  P2 might then resign (submit ?)
	into doing one's pretty-well-defined-homework of being whatever
	his religion says he has be like.  P1 defines his life goal 
	for himself.

	Another related question is, Could current genetics theories 
	have been developed in a "truely" Islamic state? 
	(Not that Mulsims are stupid, but a Muslim might not be able to indulge
	 in theories of evolution for instance (so are many Christians).)

	This is of course just a guess of mine and it is too vague to the
	point of being easy to prove false.  I'd be surprised, though,
	if it has not been addressed before.  I'd appreciate any leads
	to anything related to this subject. 

Moh&