HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: stephena@netcom.com (Stephen Arrants)
Subject: Re: Joy of Gay Sex
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services  (408 241-9760 guest) 
Distribution: usa
Date: Thu, 12 Nov 1992 21:36:53 GMT

In article <1992Nov12.014344.11675@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu> mritchie@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (Michael S Ritchie) writes:
>I beg your indulgence if this has already been discussed hidden
>away in one thread or another, but the classic reference book
>_The Joy of Gay Sex_ is being reissued, apparently completely
>revised "for the 90s," as they are wont to say in ad copy.  It
>will be hardcover only, $30.00--I assume a paperback release will
>follow in about a year. The original, which has been out of
>print, is wonderful, well written (an original co-author was
>Edmund White) with graphic illustrations in the style of Comfort's
>_Joy of Sex_.  Release date is December, so its probably out
>there right now, or tomorrow!

Hmm....I wonder how they've improved it.  Scratch 'n' sniff, perhaps?


Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: kcochran@nyx.cs.du.edu (Keith "Justified And Ancient" Cochran)
Subject: Re: Colorado Addresses
Summary: Here's some more... 
X-Disclaimer: Nyx is a public access Unix system run by the University
	of Denver for the Denver community.  The University has neither
	control over nor responsibility for the opinions of users.
Organization: Nyx, Public Access Unix at U. of Denver Math/CS dept.
Date: Sat, 7 Nov 92 01:33:47 GMT

In article <1992Nov6.004720.11051@craycos.com> mush@craycos.com (Randy Murrish) writes:

[List of companies in the springs deleted]

Some other names...

Gov. Roy Romer
State Capital Bldg
Denver, CO  80202

Romer has been against this thing all along, and held a press conference
as soon as it passed, saying that the State would fight it tooth and nail.

Janus Group Of Mutual Funds
100 Fillmore STE 300
Denver, CO  80206

I would say that upwards of 40% of the work force (including myself) are
gay.  Janus has always been a big supporter of the local AIDS Walk.

USWest Corporation
1-800-usw-help

USWest was one of the first, if not the first, corporation to speak out
against #2.  USSPrint is one of their subsidaries, I believe...

Mayor Wellington Webb
City & County Bldg
Denver, CO  80202

Mayor Webb has also always been against #2.

Gay & Lesbian Community Center of Colorado

GLCCC
PO Drawer E
Denver, CO  80218
(303)831-6268
(303)837-1598

The GLCCC is currently handling money for the fight against amendment #2.
Call them and ask how _you_ can send a donation!

--
=kcochran@nyx.cs.du.edu | B(0-4) c- d- e++ f- g++ k(+) m r(-) s++(+) t | TSAKC=
=My thoughts, my posts, my ideas, my responsibility, my beer, my pizza.  OK???=
=You know, Colorado has a lot more to fear from a RadiKalFeministLesbianBitch =
=like me than I have to fear from either Colorado or "Them".  Carpe Diem! FWA!=
From: rdonahue@spdcc.com (Bob Donahue)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: Colorado tactics
Date: 11 Nov 92 16:00:05 GMT
Article-I.D.: spdcc.1992Nov11.160005.3150
Organization: insert anything here

exukev@exu.ericsson.se (Kevin Autrey) writes:
>rdonahue@spdcc.com (Bob Donahue) writes:

>>	4) Who is Judge Hampton - why is he important to knowing about
>>gay rights?

>Just in case this hasn't made it out yet - Judge Hampton was defeated
>in his latest judicial election bid.  The opposition (Barbara
>Rosenberg (D)) made some use in her advertisements of the fact that
>Hampton was censured for his remarks concerning his (lighter than
>normal) sentencing of the killers of "a couple of queers".

>I relished this defeat almost as much as I relished Clinton's victory
>(i.e. a *lot*).

	Wow!  More great news! Thanks!

>________ _________________________________________________________________
>\      /            Hate is not a family value | Ericsson Network Systems
> \  Kevin Autrey                               | P.O. Box 833875 - MS L-04
>  \  /            wk: exukev@exu.ericsson.se   | Richardson, TX 75083-3875
>   \/             hm: kevin@batpc.lonestar.org | Phone: (214) 997-6865


	Isn't the Texas ---> Sweden commnute a bit of a pain?

Hugz, BBC
From: gill@jjmhome.UUCP (Robert Gill)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Autofact '92
Date: 6 Nov 92 12:58:39 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: Jims Place

Hi All:

I'm going to the Autofact trade show in Detroit and was wondering if
anyone is interested in getting together some night prior to, during or
following the show.  I'll be arriving Friday, Nov. 6th around 1:30 p.m.
and leaving the following Friday (Nov. 13) on the 8:40 p.m. flight to
Boston.  I'm working in the Parametric Technology booth doing system
admin stuff.

I have know idea where I'm staying (other than knowing it's not "in"
the city), so I'm not sure how to arrange meetings.  If you stop by
our booth and ask for me (Bob Gill) I'm sure we can set something up.

BTW, if you don't recognize my name instantly it's because I've been
away for over a year.  Hope I can see some of you in Detroit.

Hugs and stuff,
Bob
------
Robert W. Gill					Parametric Techology Corp.
lectroid.sw.stratus.com!jjmhome!gill		(617) 736-0541
"The Answer is ... 42." - Douglas Adams, H.G.G.
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: dfs@lestat.bellcore.com (Deborah Swayne)
Subject: Re: Twice Fucked (Colorado gays)
Keywords:  idiocy, sexism
Organization: Morristown Research and Engineering
Date: Tue, 10 Nov 92 17:53:16 GMT


solovay@netcom.com (Andrew M. Solovay) writes:

|> Meow! Someone got up on the wrong side of life this morning. You
|> ought to give some kind of warning to these postings; you know,
|> something like "Summary: Attitude Queen on the rag... Proceed
|> with caution". (How's that for flamebait?)

Excellent.  Do you use anti-woman expressions whenever you want to
insult a man, or do you reserve them for insulting gay men?

Debby Swayne
dfs@bellcore.com
Xref: sparky soc.motss:47263 alt.politics.homosexuality:7106 co.politics:1872
From: gary@colossus.cgd.ucar.edu (Gary Strand)
Newsgroups: soc.motss,alt.politics.homosexuality,co.politics
Subject: Re: Colorado Amendment 2: The First Fatality
Date: 12 Nov 92 23:02:45 GMT
Organization: Climate and Global Dynamics Division/NCAR, Boulder, CO

tf> Tim Fogarty
gs> Gary Strand

gs> My ideal world would contain no such protections for anyone. If you want to
    fire me because I'm white, male, and het then that's your right. If I want
    to fire you because you're female, gay, bi, a poor dresser, whatever, then
    that should be my right.

tf> Take a look at recent history.  Try to really understand what life was 
    really like for blacks and other minorities prior to 1960.  Only with 
    the civil rights movement and anti-discrimination laws did things improve. 

  As if repeal of those laws would send us right back into the morass. If that
  is the case, then things really haven't changed, it's just that the problems
  have been glossed over. People are just as racist/sexist/&c as they have al-
  ways been, it's just hidden now. I prefer to know who the bigots are, let
  the light shine on them.

tf> The pupose of anti-discrimination laws is NOT to create lawsuits. 

  The purpose of *all* laws is to correct behavior, and without the prospect
  of legal sanction (ie, a lawsuit) then a law has no purpose.

tf> Laws are a deterrent, more to discourage people from discriminating, rather
    than punish them after they discriminate.

  Laws deter by threat of legal sanction. If that threat isn't legitimate (ie,
  if you knew you'd never get a speeding ticket) then there's no reason to
  obey the law.

--
Gary Strand                      Opinions stated herein are mine alone and are
strandwg@ncar.ucar.edu            not representative of NCAR, UCAR, or the NSF
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: shore@dinah.tc.cornell.edu (Melinda Shore)
Subject: Re: discrimination at CMU
Organization: Cornell Theory Center
Date: Fri, 13 Nov 1992 15:12:55 GMT

In article <Bxnrno.GBo@queernet.org> rogerk@QueerNet.ORG (Roger B.A. Klorese) writes:
>In article <mattm-111192104825@mcmelmon.apple.com>, mattm@apple.com (Matthew
>Melmon) writes:
>|> The role of a drama school is to prepare actors for life on the stage.

>The primary role of a drama school is to teach acting, not prepare professional
>actors.

Actually, the primary role of the CMU drama school *is* to
prepare professional actors.  That's undoubtedly why they
booted those students.  Really, the school's overall emphasis
over the past decade-and-a-half or so has shifted towards
professionalism.  The music school, too.
--
           Hate is not a family value.  Boycott Colorado

       Melinda Shore - Cornell Theory Center - shore@tc.cornell.edu
From: lovegod@wam.umd.edu (Donald Andrew Agarrat)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Okay, what makes a Gay or Lesbian turn Republican?
Date: 7 Nov 92 04:01:08 GMT
Organization: Workstations at Maryland, University of Maryland, College Park

I think that it's something genetic.  There is the homosexual  
gene and the Republican gene.  Surely one overpowers the other!

Seriously, what were the experiences that led you to being a  
Republican?

Donald
Newsgroups: soc.motss,ne.motss
From: thaaang@cwis.unomaha.edu (John Dorrance)
Subject: Re: GOP's future; living with the enemy
Organization: University of Nebraska at Omaha
Date: Fri, 6 Nov 1992 22:36:16 GMT

mdrayton@sr.hp.com (Mike Drayton) writes:

>Jake Coughlin (jakec@ralvmm.vnet.ibm.com) wrote:

>> darling, if he does run for Prez in '96, he will
>> undoubtedly get married.
>> -- 
>Maybe it'll be hard for him to find a bride after he's
>been thoroughly outed??  

Ahem.

John, in bisexual woman drag (icepick in clutchpurse, of course)

--
John Dorrance        * Sexyfunky Motherfuckerdiva *   thaaang@cwis.unomaha.edu

		I bet if you threw that ass into the air
			It'd turn into sunshine!
From: msp@ohstpy.mps.ohio-state.edu (Michael S. Pettersen)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: discrimination at CMU
Date: 13 Nov 92 13:18:59 EST

In article <1992Nov11.225940.17254@spdcc.com>, dyer@spdcc.com (Steve Dyer) writes:
>
>In article <CORWIN+.92Nov11123735@MORPHEUS.CIMDS.RI.CMU.EDU> corwin+@CMU.EDU (Scott Safier) writes:
>>And it is homophobia for the Drama Department to be
>>sending the message to its students that their sexual orientation is
>>something to be hidden.
>
>How someone pronounces their "s"es has little to do with sexual orientation,
>and working on that or other effeminate mannerisms has nothing to do with
>"hiding" a sexual orientation.  Sorry, you'll get no sympathy from me there.

So Jimmy Stewart should have been thrown out of the CMU drama program?
Would he have been, if he had been in it?  Is lishping acceptable but
lithping not?  Why?

--
Mike Pettersen, Ecole Normale Superieure
Replies are forwarded to:  msp@physique.ens.fr
Perfect love casteth out fear.
From: mattm@apple.com (Matthew Melmon)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Colorado Lawsuit
Date: 9 Nov 92 23:41:32 GMT
Followup-To: soc.motss
Organization: Apple Computer, Inc.


Note:  Again, the following is taken from an internal Apple
organization, and is not official policy of Apple Computer.


DA BULLETIN  APPLE LAMBDA BULLETIN  APPLE LAMBDA BULLETIN  APPLE LAMBDA 
 
FROM:  Verna Wilder  (link: V.WILDER)
 
Hello again--
 
This is a reminder to call the City of Boulder and add your name 
to the list of people urging them to file a lawsuit against 
Amendment 2.  I received the following link with a correction to the
information we received a few days ago.The city council meets Wednesday 
night to decide whether or not to file the suit, so please call now. 
They need our help.
 
Thanks,
Verna
 
---------------------------------------
 
Howdy Verna,
 
> The plan of action in response to the new amendment is to file a
> lawsuit.  To be added to the list of people on the adjoining amiscus
> brief call the City of Boulder at (303) 441-3090 (you need not be a
> Colorado resident).
 
Actually, this is incorrect.  The City of Boulder City Council will be
discussing Wednesday evening whether or not to file a lawsuit.  Call
them at the above number to add your name (and address/phone) to a
list of people urging the city council to file the lawsuit.
Obviously, it's fairly urgent that the council be urged to file this
suit.
 
The gentlewoman I talked with said that adding your name to the amicus
brief (assuming the suit is filed) would require going through a
lawyer.
 
Ron
 
DA BULLETIN  APPLE LAMBDA BULLETIN  APPLE LAMBDA BULLETIN  APPLE LAMBDA 
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: anderson@macc.wisc.edu (Jess Anderson)
Subject: Re: Moonshine, the election, and you
Organization: Madison Academic Computing Center, UW-Madison
Date: Thu, 5 Nov 92 04:52:58 GMT


In article <1992Nov4.235547.18582@spdcc.com> dyer@spdcc.com
(Steve Dyer) writes:

>In article <mattm-041192104618@mcmelmon.apple.com>
>mattm@apple.com (Matthew Melmon) writes:

>>Now, when elections in Germany roll around, what are *you* going to
>>do about *your* Republican party's crusade against 'foreigners' -

>Gene Smith is an American, you, you, _Melmon_, you.

Well, you didn't expect him to deduce that (unaided, after
all) from the name Eugen Schmidt all by himself, did you?
You wouldn't expect him to catch the Clue Bus just because
Herr Schmidt gave him a free pass, would you?

>I really can't figure the likes of you out.

Read Dostoevsky, who's got lots of Melmon types.  Golyadkin
comes to mind, if that's not too effete for him, a regular
little Golyadkin.

-- 
Jess Anderson <> Madison Academic Computing Center <> University of Wisconsin
Internet: anderson@macc.wisc.edu <-best, UUCP:{}!uwvax!macc.wisc.edu!anderson
NeXTmail w/attachments: anderson@yak.macc.wisc.edu  Bitnet: anderson@wiscmacc
Room 3130 <> 1210 West Dayton Street / Madison WI 53706 <> Phone 608/262-5888
From: Minotaur@cup.portal.com (A Frank Swilling)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: Thugsy twins to run against each other!
Date: Thu, 12 Nov 92 19:48:57 PST
Organization: The Portal System (TM)
  <1992Nov12.014357.12389@netcom.com>

Andrew Solovay invents a whole new perversion:

>Don't be so hard on Dannemeyer. My pet theory is that he's really
>one of us, an agent provocateur paid by Queer Nation to make
>homophobes look like a drooling pack of mouth-breeding morons.
                                         ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Is this what 69ing leads to?

>Andrew M. Solovay

Frank
Minotaur@cup.portal.com
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: fjvwing@cs.vu.nl (FJ!!)
Subject: Re: the purpose of soc.motss (was: off-topic discussions)
Organization: Fac. Wiskunde & Informatica, VU, Amsterdam
Date: Thu, 12 Nov 1992 13:04:21 GMT

adolphso@mizar.usc.edu (adolphson) writes:
>nelson@reed.edu (Nelson Minar) writes:

>: I know. Let's split soc.motss! Yeah! Here's what I propose:
>: soc.motss.mean (moderated by adolphso@usc.edu)
>I can already see soc.motss.mean splitting into 
>soc.motss.curmudgeon and soc.motss.bitchy despite
>my attempts to hold the factions together.

Heavens, the version of 'rn' installed here already chokes at my
.newsrc . With this splits I might start to see the limits of 'nn' .

								FJ!!
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: mhr@hpuerca.atl.hp.com (Mike Reaser)
Subject: Re: Pink dollar, red circle slash... pink fade
Date: Wed, 11 Nov 1992 18:34:25 GMT
Organization: a stone mountain of Kudzu

In <1992Nov11.013946.2123@mnemosyne.cs.du.edu> kcochran@nyx.cs.du.edu (Keith "Justified And Ancient" Cochran) writes:

>Here in Denver, we have the "Colorado Community Directory", a phamplet
>there's printed up twice a year that lists nothing but gay owned/operated
>businesses.

In Atlanta, we've got the "Gay and Lesbian Yellow Pages", with similar
listings.

They were available at the Pride day festivities last summer, and are
available next to the weekly "bar rags" in most clubs here.

--
=======================================================================
 Mike Reaser, Hewlett-Packard N. Amer. Response Center - Atlanta
 Internet:  mhr@hpuerca.atl.hp.com
 NBCS: B4 f w g+ k s-               I barely speak for myself, so
 #include <standard.disclaimer>       don't make me speak for HP
=======================================================================
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: shore@dinah.tc.cornell.edu (Melinda Shore)
Subject: Re: The Hate Gene (was Re: Social Democracy)
Organization: Cornell Theory Center
Date: Mon, 9 Nov 1992 03:40:58 GMT

In article <19921108173148ECL4JN2@MVS.OAC.UCLA.EDU> ECL4JN2@MVS.OAC.UCLA.EDU (Jack B. Nimble) writes:
>It never ceases to amaze me how the left-wing liberals are ever so eager
>to distort what has actually been asserted. The effect of Jim Crow laws
>absolutely did prevent those in the South who wanted to serve blacks and
>whites in non-discriminatory fashion. 

Junk, you ignorant slut.

I expect that Jess' first-hand experience with Jim Crow
is roughly equivalent to yours, since he's from the midwest.
As it happens, he does have his chronology wrong - we had
segregated schools and anti-miscegenation laws in Virginia
as late as the mid-1960s.  That doesn't change the gist
of his message.

>It's the left- wing liberals who go around exonerating the wicked deeds
>of evil people by blaming society for not providing the right social
>conditions to eliminate poverty. 

Junk, you ignorant slut.  

We left-wing liberals (actually, I see traditional liberals
as only slightly left-wing) don't go around exonerating
wicked deeds or evil people.  We're concerned, however,
about perfectly ordinary people whose options are limited
by a grossly inequitable society.  Inability to make those
discernments is a propertarian hallmark, and is yet another
reason why propertarianism cannot produce a "level playing
field."  You guys are just practicing economic Christian
Science, aren't you?
--
           Hate is not a family value.  Boycott Colorado

       Melinda Shore - Cornell Theory Center - shore@tc.cornell.edu
From: trussell@cwis.unomaha.edu (Tim Russell)
Subject: Re: The UNofficial Colorado address list.
Organization: University of Nebraska at Omaha
Date: Sat, 7 Nov 1992 16:05:49 GMT

lfoard@Turing.ORG (Lawrence C. Foard) writes:

>Focus on the Family                             1-719-531-3400
>420 N Cascade Ave, Colorado Springs, CO  80903
>(Ye Olde Family Values Fascists)

    FOTF also has an 800 number, 1-800-A-FAMILY.  Of course, I wouldn't
/dream/ of telling anyone to call that number to waste their money, but if
I did, I would also tell them not to do it too much to avoid enabling them
to file harassment charges.  Unless, of course, they did it from a pay phone.

--
   Tim Russell                 Omaha, NE              trussell@unomaha.edu
      "Who can doubt that pleasure is the only goal of a reasoned life?"
                                                   -- Epicurus
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: mattm@apple.com (Matthew Melmon)
Subject: Re: discrimination at CMU
Date: Wed, 11 Nov 1992 23:19:46 GMT
Organization: Apple Computer, Inc.
Followup-To: soc.motss

In article <1992Nov11.215211.14314@cbnewsl.cb.att.com>,
ry@cbnewsl.cb.att.com (ryerson.schwark) wrote:

> Oh, yes!  Any of them Faggots who can't be retrained to be closet
> cases and act like strayt white min will just have to be THROW OUT!
> 
> Halleluyah!  

Very slowly, now - so as to make sure none of the words fall 
through cracked minds:  actors assume the lives of people *other*
than themselves.  Telling an actor to carry himself in a 'manly'
way during the course of a part is *not* the same thing as 
telling the actor to change the way he lives his *own* life.

Where is the conceptual difficulty in that?

*X*
From: jrd@frame.com (James Drew)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: discrimination at CMU
Date: 13 Nov 1992 12:06:21 -0600
Organization: UTexas Mail-to-News Gateway
NNTP-Posting-Host: cs.utexas.edu

Scott Safier (corwin+@CMU.EDU) writes:

>Is a painter allowed to let their sexuality enter their work?  What
>about Maplethorpe?  What distinguishes an actor from these other
>artists?  I am not saying that every actor is appropriate for every
>role.  But to argue that a person can turn off their sexuality on
>demand is absurd. 

Something you are forgetting is the difference between a student in the CMU
acting program, and a professional actor.  As a student, the individual is
learning how to focus kir talent, and how to repond to a great number of
potentail situations.  For them to succeed in this goal, they *must* be able
to divorce their personal qualities from those of the character they are
portraying.  A person playing a "macho" man but exhibiting traditional
non-"macho" qualities will fail; just as a person playing a dog would fail if
ke were unable to not talk during the part.  Once the actor is no longer bound
by the restrictions of the school setting, when ke is able to pick and choose
from among assorted potential parts, *then* refusing to do away with personal
mannerisms is fine, because it is a choice the actor is allowed to make.  Such
a choice always comes with the chance for failure: in the real world, you don't
get the part, and in school, you get a lower grade (or worse).

To use your avbove example, the same *does* hold true with a painter.  When
the painter is in class, ke is expected to hold to the restrictions placed by
the instructor/department.  If the painter is unable to overcome kir desire
to focus on the breasts or genitals of the subject to the detriment of the
rest of the work, then the person may fail.  Once the painter is away from
these stricture, ke can *choose* to focus on those breasts or genitals, and
take the proessional lumps that come with it.

The actor in class is not being asked to turns off kir sexuality, merely to
supress those projections of it which do not properly mesh with the character
being portrayed.  There is a world of difference.

------------------------------
                             |     There were people everywhere, wearing bits
Jim Drew                     | of leather... clothing not even Hollywood could
jrd@frame.com                | dream up.
(Furry: Randy Puritan)       |     "Ron," I said.  "That guy has leather ram's
"Innocent, but not naive."   | horns, and a cape."
B2h t w- c k s g+(p) rv p    |     "Yeah, he's dressed like thet at all these
S8/5 g l+ y+ o+ a+ u++- j++  | street fairs.  But wait 'til next month: me and
{opinions: mine != frame's}  | Val'll take you to Hallowe'en in the Castro.
                             | Gives a whole new meanin' to 'Trick 'r Treat.'"
                             |		- Marc Lynx, "Awl's Fare"
From: strong@apple.com (Bob Strong)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: GA Dept. of Health Passes Insane Measure
Date: 11 Nov 92 02:33:32 GMT
Followup-To: soc.motss
Organization: Apple Computer, Inc.

In article <12050005@hpuerca.atl.hp.com>, krb@hpuerca.atl.hp.com (Kevin
Barnes) wrote:
> 
> Al last the Georiga Govt. has done something right.
> 
> Prevention is 99% of the cure!

But if the measure results in fewer people being tested, then it could help
to spread the disease, not prevent it.  Terrance Heath's arguments as to
why this might be so sound reasonable to me.
From: mhr@hpuerca.atl.hp.com (Mike Reaser)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: A Dumb Question, But...
Date: 6 Nov 92 16:43:01 GMT
Article-I.D.: hpuerca.BxAzrq.402
Organization: a stone mountain of Kudzu

In <BOB.92Nov5181057@dolores.Stanford.EDU> bob@dolores.Stanford.EDU (Bob Lodenkamper) writes:

>In article <1992Nov6.011420.3901@quantime.co.uk> roger@quantime.co.uk
>(Roger Phillips) writes: 

>   I know what you mean.
>   I've just discovered that
>   after seeing the term GOP all over the place for months
>   nobody I know here seems to know what it means.

>Grand Old Party (of the Republic).  I forget the details.

The name comes from politcal cartoons of the 1880's by Thomas Nast.

The same cartoons gave us the symbols of the elephant for the Republican
Party and the donkey for the Democrats.

--
=======================================================================
 Mike Reaser, Hewlett-Packard N. Amer. Response Center - Atlanta
 Internet:  mhr@hpuerca.atl.hp.com
 NBCS: B4 f w g+ k s-               I barely speak for myself, so
 #include <standard.disclaimer>       don't make me speak for HP
=======================================================================
Newsgroups: soc.motss,alt.politics.homosexuality,co.politics