HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.literary
Date:         Fri, 9 Oct 1992 10:15:35 EDT
From:         Hugh Ruppersburg <HRUPPERS@UGA.BITNET>
Subject:      Re: Writers and their lovers. Help!!

William Faulkner's relationships with Meta Carpenter (who wrote a book
on the subject) in the 30s, and with Joan Williams (who wrote a novel
about it) in the 50s are very interesting, and you might want to consider
them.--HR
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Date:         Sun, 11 Oct 1992 18:00:28 -0500
From:         SEAWA@RHODES.BITNET
Subject:      Re: Writers and their lovers. Help!!

H>If you do something on Shakespeare maybe you can get in
JH>a joke about his second-best bed . . .
JH>
what bw
what bed would that be?  Anne's?  :)
\/\/ill
From: S1MBM@ISUVAX.BITNET
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Subject: Re: Clemens v. Twain
Date: 17 Oct 92 01:13:02 GMT
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Greg, perhaps my professors at Oregon were fairly relaxed, but I've never
heard a professor get uptight at someone calling Twain Twain.  I don't
think that the King-Bachman analogy pertains at all.  King has published
most of his works as King, whereas Twain published most of hiw works as
Twain.  Not only that, Twain was his persona for the myriad speaking
engagements he performed, engagements which accounted for at least as
much of his fame as did his writing during his lifetime.  I think that
in the case of Twain and George Eliot what was originally a pseudonym
becomes so dominant and important in its own right that it is merely
pedantic to insist on "Clemens" and "Evans."

Michael McDonald
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Date:         Fri, 9 Oct 1992 11:14:38 EDT
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From:         "Lana Brown, VIARC, IRD" <VIAEM105@SIVM.BITNET>
Subject:      Writers and Lovers

From:    Lana Brown, VIARC, IRD
Sartre and his lover (the one who wrote all those feminist books, like _The
Other Sex_ or something like that; I can't remember her name) had a long and
interesting relationship. They never married, but they were best friends and
lovers I think till he died.
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Date:         Tue, 13 Oct 1992 09:16:39 EDT
From:         Barbara <WELSHBW@DUVM.BITNET>
Subject:      Re: CTI Centre Open Day

Thanks for the e-mail about Oxford computer center.  I will send it on to Alex
who is there.  He is supposed to get himself on the Internet.  If he were, I co
uld forward it to him.  As it is, I'll send him a copy.
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Date:         Sun, 11 Oct 1992 23:53:27 -0500
From:         S1MBM@ISUVAX.BITNET
Subject:      Re: Madoc

Tim, thanks for yet another illuminating post.  I fully understand your
point about Beckett, but would only say that perhaps part of that sense
of crushing weight comes from encountering an author who indeed crushes
our expectations concerning what literature is and what it should do to
us.  I agree that a steady diet of Beckett would be masochistic, but
reading Beckett now and then can be a sort of tonic, methinks, to our
desire to have our literary expectations caressingly met.

Has anyone here read Silko's *Almanac of the Dead*?  This is a book that
I wanted to like, not least because Toni Morrison passingly recommends it
in a recent issue of Rolling Stone, but which loses my interest in its
seemingly endless introduction of new characters and relentless pursuit of
trendy themes, and due to a nearly lifeless, and certainly banal, verbal
minimalism.

Folks who do not subscribe to *Harper's* might consider buying the October
issue just for Don DeLillo's novella on the famous Giants-Dodgers series of
the early Fifties.  The story features Frank Sinatra, Jackie Gleason, and
J. Edgar Hoover schmoozing and puking in the stands.  DeLillo is one of
my favorite authors, and if you have any interest in baseball, celebrities,
or the machinations of the FBI's famously insidious headman, and in a text
that combines these themes with nearly the aplomb of a great jazz band, I'd
recommend this novella as a most engaging and provocative work.

Michael McDonald

p.s. I'm chagrined that I've never read Cabell since, as an undergrad at UVa,
I spent so much time being haunted while haunting the environs of Cabell Hall,
named fro you-know-who!
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Date:         Sun, 11 Oct 1992 01:12:27 -0500
From:         S1MBM@ISUVAX.BITNET
Subject:      Re: Madoc

Tim, thanks for posting that wonderful quote.  I am particularly interested
in literary works that deal with music, so with one not-so-fell swoop you've
made me want to read an author I've not had the joy of encountering!

Say, why don't you spend more time over here, rather than dallying with the
egregious silliness that passes for human discourse on ALLMUSIC (or could
that be a different Tim Johnson?).

Michael McDonald
From: f1tato@uta.fi (Tarja Tolvanen)
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.literary
Subject: Re: Wham, bam, thank you Sam
Date: 7 Oct 92 13:43:56 GMT
Organization: University of Tampere, Finland

Now, this what I like to hear. I myself am more interested in the later
texts, presently writing a paper on "First Love", even the very fragmented
texts.
What interests me in his writing (at the moment) are things like 'absence',
'memory', 'love', 'death'....sure enough there is plenty to be said of these
all. Does anybody have any comments on these, what about the specific kind of
absence in 'First Love' i.e. the absence of the father (Kristeva: "Father, 
Love, and Banishment" in Desire in Language). Oh, you should see my cheeks
glowing....
In 'Pricks' there are some funny things going on with loving too, if I
remember correctly, and Murphy is in love with a prostitute just like the
main character in 'First Love', now what do you say about that? 
The way I do my study is a little post* but I'd love to hear your views,
no matter what they are.


Tarja


did I hear somebody say that women don't dare??
 ___________________________________________________________________________
 f1tato@uta.fi                        To be nothing but pain, how that would   
 Tarja Tolvanen                       simplify matters!        x Beckett x
 ---------------------------------------------------------------------------
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Date:         Thu, 8 Oct 1992 10:25:00 EDT
From:         Colleen C Yarnell <YARNELL@UNC.BITNET>
Subject:      Plath and Hughes

Sylvia Plath was a wonderful writer and poet.  An interesting biography
was written about her by Linda Wagner-Martin titled, "Sylvia Plath:  a
biography".  It gives details on her relationship with and marriage to
Ted Hughes.  If you have read any of Plaths poems and are into the
psychology of writting this book is especially insightful.  I loved
reading it in conjunction with "The Bell Jar".

Colleen
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Date:         Mon, 12 Oct 1992 15:01:02 -0500
From:         STU_DEMAGILL@JMUVAX.BITNET
Subject:      Re: Writers and their lovers. Help!!

        I think an interesting contrast to all these couples with troubles
is the writer with a good marriage, which is very rare.  Two such exapmles
are Mark Twain, and his wife Olivia, and Nathaniel Hawthorne and his wife
Elizabeth Clarke Manning.  Both writers adored their wives, and I think
it would be interesting to compare them to some other couples where the writer
does not have such a loving relationship with his wife.

David Magill   James Madison University
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Date:         Thu, 8 Oct 1992 14:36:15 EDT
From:         Tom Frenkel <FRENKEL@CPMAIL-AM.CIS.COLUMBIA.EDU>
Subject:      Baltimore
Comments: To: LITERARY@ucf1vm.cc.ucf.edu

I was in Baltimore for a conference last several days.  (If you're
ever there, I recommend Fell's Point -- a harbor area with
interesting shops, and without the yuppie glitz of the "Inner Harbor"
development.)  Anyway, as I walked around town I became aware of the
city's slogan, posted on bus-stop benches or whatnot:

                Baltimore
                The City That Reads

In actual fact, this may not do much for general literacy or anything
else, but then again, who knows?  I have to admit that seeing this
slogan gave my spirits a lift...
                                                --Tom
-------
Tom Frenkel,    Columbia-Presbyterian Medical Center,
161 Ft. Washington Ave.,  DAP-1310,  New York, NY 10032-3784  USA
Internet:  FRENKEL@CPMAIL-AM.CIS.COLUMBIA.EDU
<<< Opinions expressed not necessarily those of my employer >>>
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From: mbm@PACSCL.UARC.UPENN.EDU ((MM))
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Subject: lovers
Date: 16 Oct 92 21:49:30 GMT
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Posted-Date: Fri, 16 Oct 92 17:49:30 EDT
Comments: To: literary@ucf1vm.cc.ucf.edu

Keats on Fanny Brawne. The last poem (I think) that the wrote was to her. She
didn't write, or maybe letters, but not enough of those as far as Keat was
concerned I'm sure. "This living hand, now warm and capable/Of earnest action,
would, if it were cold/And in the icy silence of the tomb/So haunt thy days
and chill thy dreaming nights/That though wouldst wish thine own heart dry
of blood/That in my veins red life might stream again/And thou be conscience-
calmed./See, here it is.  I hold it toward you."

I've heard it said that this one lyric give indication that had Keats lived,
he was capable of writing dramatic literature perhaps on the level of Shake-
speare. Speculative of course, but it was exciting to read, and I've always
loved the poem and occasionally indulge myself and recite it at open poetry
readings.

In any case, a writer, a lover--to make him postmodern would merely require
a translation of his negative capability into other terms. (Mostly kidding)

MM
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Date:         Wed, 7 Oct 1992 14:09:00 EST
From:         Elise <EZAPPAS@DREW.BITNET>
Subject:      Re: Name This Boat!

                                        Date:     07-Oct-1992 01:43pm EST
                                        From:     Zappas, Elise
                                                  EZAPPAS
                                        Dept:     LIB
                                        Tel No:   (201)-408-3667

TO:  _IN%"LITERARY@UCF1VM.BITNET"         ( _IN%"LITERARY@UCF1VM.BITNET"@MRGATE@
   GAMMA )


Subject: RE: Name This Boat!

I have two suggestions for a name for your boat, both from Greek.
"Neraida" means sea nymph.  The plural, "Neraides" refers to the daughters
of the the sea god Nereus.  The singular "Neraida" is pronounced
ner-EYE-ee-tha. The "th" sound of the last syllable is hard, as in the word
"the".  My other suggestion is "Kima" or "Kimata", which are the singular
and plural of the greek word for "wave".  They are pronounced "KEE-mah" and
"KEE-mah-tah".
                                          Have Fun,

                                          Elise T. Zappas
                                          EZAPPAS@drew.drew.edu
From: mbm@PACSCL.UARC.UPENN.EDU ((MM))
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.literary
Subject: Twain
Date: 16 Oct 92 21:34:38 GMT
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Posted-Date: Fri, 16 Oct 92 17:34:38 EDT
Comments: To: literary@ucf1vm.cc.ucf.edu

Also, he wrote the (almost) SF story.
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Date:         Fri, 9 Oct 1992 08:37:41 EST
From:         DZL <livewell@SIAM.ORG>
Subject:      Re: Writers and their lovers. Help!!
Comments: To: B7SR@MUSICB.MCGILL.CA, LITERARY@ucf1vm.cc.ucf.edu

          You could try Gertrude Stein and her lover Alice B. Toklas.
          Stein wrote _The Autobiography of Alice B. Toklas_.  How
          about Zelda Fitzgerald and F. Scott--a stormy relationship
          documented well in biographies of each of them?  I think
          another good one would be James Joyce's wife Nora.  There is
          a very good biography of her entitled _Nora_, and there is
          also a fine movie about their relationship entitled _James
          Joyce's Women_.

          Dave L.
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Date:         Fri, 9 Oct 1992 15:55:22 EDT
From:         Ken Koester <MAINT2@ERS.BITNET>
Subject:      Re: Name This Boat!

On Thu, 8 Oct 1992 23:55:48 -0500 <S1MBM@ISUVAX> said:
>How 'bout *Gravity's Levity*?
>
>michael mcdonald

Bouncy enough, but with a Rainbow sloop, I think I prefer just "Gravity's"
Still thinking about it.
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From: millie@gondor.math.columbia.edu (Millie Niss)
Subject: Re: lovers of writers
Organization: Mathematics Department, Columbia University
Followup-To: millie@math.columbia.edu
Summary: What about Rimbaud and Verlaine?
Date: Sun, 11 Oct 1992 00:41:47 GMT
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	To the person who has to write a story from the point of view
of a writer's lover: There is a lot available about the strange
relationship between Rimbaud and Verlaine (who, being also a poet
would be interesting to write about).  This is interesting from a
literary point of view because the two poets influenced each other.
Here is a summary (very cursory, I'm afraid since it's been three
years since I studied Rimbaud) of the relationship: Rimbaud ran away
several times as a teenager from his apparently "happy" but boring
home in Charleville-Mezieres (near the Belgian border, a region known
for its greyness; I lived not too far from there and I can see the
young Rimbaud fleeing from the weather if from nothing else).  He
often sought out literary figures in Paris, and landed several times
at the house of Verlain, to whom he had sent many poems.  Verlaine was
already an established poet at the time and was married despite his
homosexual tendancies.  The young Rimbaud stayed with the Verlaines
several times, and had a romantic relationship with Verlaine and
possibly with his wife as well.  The two poets went off on many wild
trips together and were chased home by their parents and Mrs.
Verlaine.  On one occaasion, the three fought, Verlaine broke
Rimbaud's arm, a crime for which he was condemned to two years of
prison.  In prison Verlaine (re)became a devout catholic and began to
write less original (IMHO) pious poetry.

	ObAside:  Why do cultured and refined people find it
acceptable to exchange gossip about literary figures when they condemn
similar gossip about movie stars (e.g. in tabloids)?

Millie.

P.S.  I didn't like the book reviews in the first new New Yorker.
There used to be reviews of things such as the complete works of e.e.
cummings, etc. and now we are offered a left-wing review of a
right-wing book about movies and family values.  Ick!
From: S1MBM@ISUVAX.BITNET
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Subject: Re: Samuel Clemens in Space
Date: 15 Oct 92 04:45:55 GMT
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Greg, I sense that you must have a nigh political reason for calling Twain
"Clemens" . . . really, why bother with "Clemens" anymore?  Why bother
calling George Eliot "Marian Evans"? (as if anyone bothers to do *that*!).
Also, I'd really like to know why some folks worry about the strange
creature called "bandwidth."

Michael McDonald
From: srubio@GARNET.BERKELEY.EDU
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.literary
Subject: Re: Clemens v. Twain
Date: 16 Oct 92 23:37:16 GMT
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Comments: To: LITERARY%UCF1VM.BITNET@cmsa.Berkeley.EDU

I call him Twain for the same reason I call Carlton Ridenhour by the name
"Chuck D" ... that's the name they use when they produce the texts I study.
Besides, the Frederic March movie was called "The Adventures of Mark Twain"
and I don't want to confuse myself (g).

Steven
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Date:         Fri, 9 Oct 1992 10:30:56 EST
From:         SIF <finkelst@SIAM.ORG>
Subject:      Writers and Lovers
Comments: To: literary@ucf1vm.cc.ucf.edu

          All this conversation has got me thinking:  Do you think,
          generally, that talented, ambitious writers generally seek
          out like-minded mates?  Or...is it more commonplace that one
          partner of a couple is the creator, the artist, while the
          other the nurturing supporter?  Plath and Hughes came
          up a little while ago.  Here's a case where two gothic-type
          poets slowly destroyed each other with competitiveness,
          jealousy, etc.  Can two individual writers have a successful
          long-term romance?

          Susan F.
          ---------------
          finkelst@siam.org
From: psgraham@gandalf.rutgers.edu (Peter Graham)
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.literary
Subject: Re: ce n'est pas le fin du monde
Date: 9 Oct 92 22:56:43 GMT
Organization: Rutgers Univ., New Brunswick, N.J.

We stopped subscribing to the New Yorker (yes, The New Yorker) several years
ago because of the wealth and volume of the ads; so I'm wondering if a 
Hawthorne effect is taking place here, with people suddenly noticing them
because they know *some* change has occurred.  

I can't speak to the new contents.

--pg
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Date:         Thu, 8 Oct 1992 15:28:07 EST
From:         SIF <finkelst@SIAM.ORG>
Subject:      Plath and Hughes
Comments: To: literary@ucf1vm.cc.ucf.edu

          Colleen mentions a Plath biography.  Actually, the latest
          one (and generally regarded as the most accurate and
          revealing in regards to the role Hughes played in her
          eventual suicide) is called _Rough Magic_.  I saw the
          biographer speak at a local book shop, who's been
          researching Plath for years and years.  According to him,
          Ted Hughes holds all the rights to Sylvia's work, and
          therefore has strict control over potential biographies.
          It's nearly impossible to write a biography without quoting
          extensively from a writer's work -- hence Hughes has the
          power to veto any unfavorable revelations.  However, this
          biographer decided to scrap the notion of using quotes from
          Plath's poems, and went ahead with his tell-all book, not
          needing permission from Hughes.  Some of the things he spoke
          about:  1) Hughes allegedly goaded Plath to kill herself,
          while she was already several depressed from some shock
          treatments she had unnecessarily received years earlier,
          repeatedly telling her how worthless she was and how
          everyone wishes she were dead anyway; 2) There are several
          "missing" journals of Sylvia's that Hughes previously
          claimed were accidently destroyed -- several people have
          seen these journals in Hughes's possession; 3) Plath and
          Hughes frequently experimented in the occult (Ouija boards,
          seances, rituals, etc.), which explains the title of the
          biography.  I have a signed copy of the book at home that
          I'm holding off on reading until I (finally) get to _The
          Bell Jar._

          Susan F.
          -------------
          finkelst@siam.org
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Date:         Fri, 9 Oct 1992 12:21:44 EDT
From:         jkamlot@VMSVAX.SIMMONS.EDU
Subject:      RE: Boat Name
Comments: To: LITERARY@ucf1vm.cc.ucf.edu

Another vote for "Lady of the Lake"

Jackie Kamlot
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Date:         Tue, 13 Oct 1992 08:50:38 EDT
From:         Tim Johnson <PH408014@BROWNVM.BITNET>
Subject:      Madoc to Malone to Mishkin

or "MMM, MMM, good."

>I agree that a steady diet of Beckett would be masochistic, but
>reading Beckett now and then can be a sort of tonic, methinks, to our
>desire to have our literary expectations caressingly met.

  Not the Mishkin you may be anticipating....

  Your comment about "expectations caressingly met" brings
to mind one of my favorite passages from Sheckley's _Options_.

  (Hmmm.  Do I give the long version of the quote or the short
version?  I'll compromise.  I'll start with the long version,
and then skip to the end.)

    The Man of a Thousand Disguises sat in his temporary
  office and considered the problem of Mishkin and the
  engine part.  Somehow, the two would not come together,
  the desired juxtaposition would not come off.  There
  was no flow toward the desired objective.
    Because of the difficulties inherent in this problem,
  The Man had been forced to invent himself. - a deus ex
  machina - now standing tongue-tied in front of the
  audience and endeavoring to explain what was to himself
  still inexplicable.
    ....
    With an effort, The Man forced his attention toward
  the engine part.  Where was the damned thing now?  In
  some dusty warehouse on Earth, presumably, awaiting
  extrication for the delectation of the patient reader.
    "But who needs a reader who's a patient?"  The Man
  snarled.  Nevertheless, there it was:  He was under
  contractual obligation to himself to construct a
  ballet for catatonics.
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Date:         Fri, 9 Oct 1992 11:51:27 -0400
From:         IAN YORK <YORK@SSCVAX.CIS.MCMASTER.CA>
Subject:      Re: Help with a quote

. . . an anti-climax can be surprisingly effective . . . has the ring of a
Tom Stoppard line:  however, I can't think of a play in which it occurred.
Stoppard fits the rest of your definition.
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