HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: dphantom@triton.unm.edu (darlene an  92sep02 lawry)
Subject: Re: History of SF2 at UIUC
Date: Tue, 13 Oct 92 02:24:57 GMT
Organization: University of New Mexico, Albuquerque

That was a great story, Kennith (still chuckling...brought back a lot of
memories).  and since you said you were interested in hearing the various
stories on the progression of SFII play, I'll go ahead and post mine.

1) Air attacks

This is the first stratedgy I saw come up.  People were still learning how
to block, much less do standing blocks.  Hence, those players who did
jumping attacks (ie Chun's short kick, Ken's knee) won most often.

2) Blocking

Became necessary in order to have a chance at survival.  Still, air attacks
were quite popular--seemed that it was he who was able to block the most
reliably that came out the winner.                

3) Combos

Evolved from catching people who blocked less realiably to increase your
chances of winning by maximizing your opponents' errors.

4) Ticking

Evolved in conjuction with combos as one of the most devastating combos
in existance (whether you opponent successfully blocked or not, was quite
effective).

5) Timing & Countering

More advance techinque was necessary at this point.  For those who were
around for the ticking era (before it became largely banned at most arcades),
you had to do something about it.  Timing allowed you to counter throw some
of the time...but it also helped you to avoid the situation (too lengthly to
go into) in general.  Countering also developed as an alternative for getting
your rear outta a stick situation (ie not even taking the chance by blocking
his first attack). ^sticky

6) SFIICE: the tickless tick

With the advent of CE seemed to come a new move:  jumping in on an opponent
(often landing behind), and just plain throwing.  Like a tick, but more
deadly...if you tried to block as opposed to jumping or countering, you were
guarnateed dead meat (were?  perhaps I should say are...this "era" still   
seems to be pretty strong).  Possibly first developed from the idea behind
Chun's new knee to the back move.  And of course, along with this tickless
tick came all moves similar to it--ie Ken/Ryu's jump behind neck kick.

7) Countering Revival

Seems to be the current era (along with the above).  now you can't afford 
to just block, you have to either get them before they have a chance to pull
those moves on you, or you have to find the right counter.  Still in 
experimental stage.

Oh, and I should mention my own personal era, which I'm currently working on 
but I have not seen other people use (yet):

8) Jumping Revival

Developed out of the need to avoid the tickless tick (and similar moves), but
I find it more useful now in avoiding being sac-thrown.  Proving to be an
interesting new stratedgy using Chun Li (not as effective with other characters)
but one for which I am just waiting for people to get wise to, and hence,
counter.

---Phantom (whew, that was longer than I thought)
Organization: University of Illinois at Chicago
Date: Thursday, 8 Oct 1992 08:19:24 CDT
From: <U58505@uicvm.uic.edu>
Newsgroups: alt.games.sf2
Subject: Re: balrog is the best player
Distribution: usa
 <BvrrA9.A5M@usenet.ucs.indiana.edu>

In article <BvrrA9.A5M@usenet.ucs.indiana.edu>, bodom@silver.ucs.indiana.edu
(Brian Odom) says:
>
>In <1992Oct6.181234.1891@oz.plymouth.edu> j_santos@oz.plymouth.edu (Jeff C.
>Santos) writes:
>
>
>>            BALROG is the best player to use if you have the patience
>>to wait for others to try and attack you. I have been playing him
>>since sf2ce has come out and I can hang with anyone.
>
>Ah, yes, but what do you do when they attack you and you must jump?
>(eg, fireball, fireball, DP).  you can't block forever.  How do you fare
>with Guiles?  They sit and wait for YOU, and YOU can't be patience the
>whole round because of the barrage of sonic booms.  Have you played
>against Hondas?  He's the character I have the hardest time with Balrog.
>Well, Bison also, but I tick Bisons with the turnaround, headbutt, etc.
>Honda just stands there with his 1000-hands attack.  He's backing you up
>in a corner.  What to do?  Well, you only have one option; you must jump
>at him and hit him.  Ah, but Honda is no dummy.  He simply backs up with
>his 1000-hands attack and you get hit and eventually DIE!!!
>
>I'm not saying that you can't play Balrog, I'm saying how do you do it?
>I've tried him but with little success.
>

Believe me Balrog can win against a character like Guile.  But the key is
that Balrog has to get on the offensive right away and stay on the
offensive.  I've seen Balrogs constantly keep Guile in a state of
perpetual blocking.  The Balrog player doesn't give Guile a chance to
recover from the stun of the block.  Guile isn't able to get a razor
kick or a sonic boom off.  The only way out of this predicament is for
Guile to jump out of it and that only exposes him.  Personally I think
these kind of Balrog players are rare.  They don't allow themselves to
fall into the missile attack traps.  Again the key is that Balrog has
to get on the offensive before his opponent and stay on the offensive.
Balrog will either win quickly (often less than 20 seconds) or lose
slowly, there are no in betweens.

The X-Man
Newsgroups: alt.games.sf2
From: dphantom@triton.unm.edu (darlene an  92sep02 lawry)
Subject: Re: Triple Hit DP Test Confirmed
Date: Fri, 16 Oct 92 06:37:28 GMT
Organization: University of New Mexico, Albuquerque

>buffer this move, and if its unbufferable, its really not all that
>much better than just a crouching fierce-DP combo. 

Only if they block.  If you catch your opponent off-guard, it makes a world
of difference damage-wise.  But, it also has some drawbacks...

>
>A couple of other tests that might be useful: can it be performed without hitting
>anyone? Most combos that involve buffering only work if you hit your opponent
>with the first move. And, more tellingly, if you walk up to someone with
>no health can you do a triple DP on them? Because if its a combo, then
>the first hit would kill them and the rest wouldn't come out because the
>round would be over, but if its a single move the entire thing
>would be executed....

Welllll, don't agree with your reasoning here.  Nobody seems to deny that a
double DP exists (at least, I sure hope not)...and yet, you can't do it on
an opponent with no health (the first part hits, and voila, he falls over,
dead).  The opponent falls over and the next hit won't land.  Same with
a spinning kick...the "falling over dead" sequence has already begun, nothing
will interrupt it.  Also applies to the falling outta the air (only the where
your opponent has been hit and is on his way down, in his "sorta horizontal, I'm falling" 
position/animation.
 
>
>but most importantly, how many people have actually seen it be buffered?
>

Well, at least one person here claims to.  But the case he described indicated
to me that it was a 3 hit DP combo that followed, and not a true DP.
Newsgroups: alt.games.sf2
From: cyu@athena.mit.edu (Yatta)
Subject: Chun Li the Cheating 8!+(#
Organization: Massachusetts Institute of Technology
Date: Mon, 12 Oct 1992 19:04:47 GMT

OK, I'm real frustrated.  Try as I might, I don't know how to block Chun Li's
fly-behind-you-and-roundhouse-knee-you-from-behind move.

I try standing block, crouching block, blocking forward, blocking back, nothing
works!  Sometimes I get lucky and actually save myself, but then Chun just flies
into the air, doing the same thing again!

I try Dragon Punch and Razor Kick, but too bad I'm not Ryukensagatguile, so they
don't work.  (I'm not sure if they WOULD work if I were Ryukensagatguile).  I try 
sac throw and it doesn't work.  All I can do is sit thru the whole round TRYING 
to block.

It seems the only solution is to screw with the other guy's controls....

HELP.....
Newsgroups: alt.games.sf2
From: loverde@ux1.cso.uiuc.edu (AstralWolf)
Subject: Re: SF2 Whiners.
Organization: University of Illinois at Urbana
Date: Wed, 14 Oct 1992 12:05:45 GMT

In <Bw3MAA.K1C@news.cso.uiuc.edu> cw21219@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (Crying Freeman) writes:

>Tonight I was playing a game against the computer as Ken and these 
>two dudes came up saying "May I?" Even though Ken is one of my worst
>characters and I play him only to try to get as many dragon punches out
>as I can... (I'm pathetic, a friend of mine was keeping track of how
>many dragon punches I got off when I tried, and I was something like
>3 for 10... This was against computer Chun Li, who is dragon punch
>target practice.
>
     Yeah pretty pathetic.  Hey you really have to work on that triple DP,
none of this hitting Guile as he comes down from a missed razor...wait
til he lands and triple DP!  (Of course I should talk...my Guile has been
used as a tackle dummy for grade school football teams *shrug*)

>Anyways, these dudes come in against me as Ryu. Sometime during the first 
>round I was knocked down and the guy came up right next to me and started
>doing crouching shorts. As he was obviously much too close, I immediately
>threw him out of there... He started yelling "Man that's so fucking cheap."
>Me and my friend just shrugged and we started joking around... "Cheap?
>AHH! Cheap." I killed him that first round walking HALF the screen and 
>just throwing him. He was quite pissed.
>
     Cheap here at UIUC?  The term is meaningless here.  Especially thanx
to such notable events as Cybergeek's "cheap Fridays" (Heck I would say
everyday's been cheap day for a while now.  I never used to throw, never
got much out of it, but after being tossed like a rag doll a few times,
I've altered my game.  (Don't believe me?  Try asking Joe how I beat him
the other day...about 3 or 4 throws/round)  Now do you see what you've
gone and done here Cybergeek?  Hehe...but it's fun to see that look of
disgust on people's faces...I enjoy it...


-- 
   /|        /              / |      /       /  /-/  Can be reached on the
  / |  /--/ --- |/-/ /-\|  |  |  ^  /  /-\  |  |/    Astral Planes known as:
 /--|  \-\   |  |   |   |  |  | /| /  |  |  |  |       loverde@ux1.cso.uiuc.edu
/   | \--/  /  /    \--/| /   |/ |/   \-/  /   /       jvl45017@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu
Organization: Junior, Physics, Carnegie Mellon, Pittsburgh, PA
Newsgroups: alt.games.sf2
Date: Wed,  7 Oct 1992 20:04:49 -0400 
From: "Clifford T. Tanaka" <ct20+@andrew.cmu.edu>
Subject: Re: Is Dhalsim better on classic or CE?

I always thought Dhalsim was really pathetic on SF2 CE, but recently I
started using him and he is FUN to play.  You basically annoy your
opponent to death by continually peppering with these weak looking hits
until he gets completely frustrated.  It just looks so comical seeing
Dhalsim fight :-).  Now that I think about it, I don't really remember
why I thought he sucked.  I know that he is a lot more fun to play in
the CE than the old sf2 since you can play him more offensively using
the faster head and foot drills.
Newsgroups: alt.games.sf2
From: dphantom@triton.unm.edu (darlene an  92sep02 lawry)
Subject: Re: Triple Hit DP Test Confirmed
Date: Wed, 14 Oct 92 07:40:04 GMT
Organization: University of New Mexico, Albuquerque

In article <10292287.15600.4459@kcbbs.gen.nz> Rob_Tan@kcbbs.gen.nz (Rob Tan) writes:
>So you (dtmlee@gfx.engga.uwo.ca (David Lee)) are saying that the 3 hit 
>DP is actually a crouch fierce & then a DP which hits twice & of which 
>all three hits take off energy when blocked? 
>

Heh, maybe that's what he's saying, but I'm going to interject here:
that's precisely the wrong one.  That will result in the 3 hit DP combo.
The triple DP is:

--O     |     \  + punch
        O      O

The punch must come at the end of the DP sequence only, and to my knowledge,
it cannot be buffered (sigh).  Only works with Ken, and you must be very
close to your opponent.

---Phantom

Newsgroups: alt.games.sf2
From: sh30443@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (Shiva the Destoyer)
Subject: Re: History of SF2 at UIUC
Organization: University of Illinois at Urbana
Date: Mon, 12 Oct 1992 22:25:47 GMT

how could any history of SF2 at UIUC be complete without that Japanese
guy who was the first true Zangief master.  Tok was his name, and with his
mastery of the spinning pile driver and jab Guile's foot every match
was "Oh my god he's on my half of the screen - RUN AWAY!!!"

Jen "mercenary SF2 just because I wear a suit"
From: mlm@mrcnext.cso.uiuc.edu (Michael McCool)
Newsgroups: alt.games.sf2
Subject: Re: SF2 Whiners.
Date: 14 Oct 92 23:06:36 GMT
Organization: CSO Resource Center
X-Newsreader: Tin 1.1 PL5


Over the summer, I played in suburban Chicago, and there really wasn't any
such thing as cheap.  It was just someone was better than you, whethere it's
raw skill or just learning a pattern to do over and over.  While I've
played many a game that was hardly fun, I still can't believe the way people
call stuff "cheap" and get mad about it.  I mean, it's only a game, and if
you don't like the way a guy is playing, go play somewhere else.  To simply 
outlaw throwing seems ludricrous.  It's a part of the game, and a part that
gives some characters a lot of their power.  And if you wanted to beat a
thrower, well, you just had to keep practicing what they were doing.
	--MLM
--
 ____
/ oo \  Mike McCool 
\ .. /  mlm@mrcnext.cso.uiuc.edu
 ||||   
 \__/   "Well, you're certainly in touch with your anger."  --Frank Drebbin
From: kingsley@hpwrce.mayfield.hp.com (Kingsley Morse)
Date: Fri, 9 Oct 1992 15:29:35 GMT
Subject: Re: Please Help
Organization: HP Western Response Center
Newsgroups: alt.games.sf2

Oops! My apologies for posting my previous "Please Help" survey to this
group. It was an honest mistake and won't happen again.

Kingsley
Newsgroups: alt.games.sf2
From: el27166@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (This Space for Rent)
Subject: Re: Helping Blanka fight Ryu
Organization: University of Illinois at Urbana
Date: Mon, 12 Oct 1992 08:10:51 GMT

cyu@athena.mit.edu (S. Hussein) writes:

>/* IMPORTANT:  I don't play either of these characters.  I play Guile mostly,
>   which means I like Blanka more than Ryu, so here's help for all you hairy
>   beasts. */

>The other day, I saw a longtime Ryu master get beaten over and over by a pretty
>mediocre Blanka player, who knew one important thing:

>The trouble with non-fireballers like Blanka is that you have to attack.  You
>can't just wait for the other guy to come in, or he'll just pelt you with
>fireballs while you try desparately to jump each one.

>THIS Blanka waited close to Ryu, and kept hitting roundhouse sweep at a range
>that just misses Ryu.  Here comes the awesome part:  if Ryu tries to fireball,
>Blanka's sweep will reach under Ryu's fireball, and nail Ryu's foot as he
>steps forward!  (Ryu automatically steps forward during a fireball!)  Ryu goes 
>down, taking much more damage than Blanka getting hit by the fireball.  Plus
>Blanka can now press the attack on the fallen Ryu.

>And because Blanka's footsweep is so fast, Ryu has no chance to kick Blanka's
>leg during Blanka's sweep.

Yes, but Ryu does have a good chance to dragon punch it if Blanka does it
over and over again.  This is common practice here.  When I play Blanka
against Ken and Ryu, I hit them with a fierce punch AFTER the fireball
comes out, to trade damage.  This is tricky, especially since two fireballs
can make you dizzy sometimes.  And we all know about what happens to
people who get dizzy on Ken or Ryu... :)

If done correctly, it can be frustrating to Ken/Ryu players.  Most of
the Ryu players moan when I pick Blanka.  They'd actually rather fight
Zangief, I think.  Go figure.

>Well, that's all.
>Have fun Ryu-killing.
-- 
Eu-Ming Lee (aka CyberGeek)                      el27166@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu
"Nobody told me there'd be .sigs like these."
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-&{&gp% +/)@ooooooo
NO CARRIER
Newsgroups: alt.games.sf2
From: dphantom@triton.unm.edu (darlene an  92sep02 lawry)
Subject: Re: Chun Li gets ass kicked by Dhalsim/Blanka/Honda in Major Upset
Date: Thu, 08 Oct 92 00:23:09 GMT
Organization: University of New Mexico, Albuquerque

>There's just one thing to do with this type of overhyped idiotic statement
>laugh.
>Chun Li SUCKS SHIT.  The only way you could beat a master Dhalsimer is to
>tick or throw a hell of a lot.  You'd be toast, even if you get close.
>Dhalsim's speed in a drill is incredible, and he grabs out of thin air.
>And being DEAD in the AIR?  give me a break, you have to find some real
>dhalsim players in your area, apparently those you play against suck.
>
>Loki (Dhalsim fanatic)

Speaking of overhyped idiotic statements...
Every character has his/her strengths and weaknesses.  Yes, this includes
Chun Li, but this also includes Dhalism.  He is more vulnerable in the air,
as Chun's short kick in the air gets high priority.  And once you're close
to him, he also loses effectiveness...yes, he has head-butts et al, but 
let's face it, he was designed for the mid-ranged or longer attacks, he's
too slow for close battle.  His quick foot drill is definitely one of
his best offensive attacks, but unless you drill, throw (which I consider
rather cheap), it may or may not be enough to win you the game.

Bottom line is, no character is perfect, and no character is useless.  Maybe
you just haven't played any good Chun Li characters, because personally
I find Chun to be one of the best characters to use against Dhalism (unless
she manages to get cornered, in which case she's definitely one of the most
frustrating characters against Dhalism).

---Phantom

  
Newsgroups: alt.games.sf2
From: bodom@silver.ucs.indiana.edu (Brian Odom)
Subject: Re: my first character
Organization: Indiana University
Distribution: alt.games.sf2
Date: Sat, 17 Oct 1992 01:54:02 GMT

In <MHEN.92Oct14174005@nodisk.webo.dg.com> mhen@nodisk.webo.dg.com (Mat Hen) writes:

>It seems that the character that a player used in his/her first game
>would turn out to be his/her best character.  It's true for me at
>least.  When SF2 Classic came out(I think it was July, 1991), I played
>Ryu and Ken(there isn't much difference between these 2 guys in the
>Classic, if any).  Then I ocassionally used Guile and tried to learn
>him 'cose I saw a lot of people using him.  Now in CE, Ken and Ryu are
>still my best characters(although they are very different from each
>other).  Guile is my third guy and I can use him to trash a lot of
>people too.  I just wonder what you guys' first characters are and
>what your best characters are now.

I started playing Ryu, since he was the "main" character.  It took me awhile
to learn to throw fireballs and even longer to DP, so I switched to Blanka
(also, because he would kick my ass).  After learning Blanka, my friends all
were playing Guile, so I wanted to learn him.  Even knowing 3 characters, I
would win only 10-30% of the time.  I eventually learned to fireball and such,
but against humans, I couldn't win.  They one day reading r.g.v.a, some "dumb"
guy was woofing about Dhalsim being the BEST character.  I was saying to myself
"How can Dhalsim be someone's MAIN character?".  Just out of curiousity, I 
began to fool with Dhalsim.  Took forever to learn, because the computer would
kick my ass thoroughly.  But, against humans, somehow I was winning about 30%
of the time, and when I lost, it was a close fight.  I couldn't understand
it since I considered Dhalsim weak and I didn't like him.  Over time, I 
developed him close to master level.  Now, I'm trying to learn Ken/Ryu and
Guile since everyone uses them (I can't win with them to save my life).

>If you were to introduce SF2 CE to your little neighbour and teach
>him/her how to use a character, which character recommend him/her to use?  I
>personally think Ken/Ryu are powerful but difficult to master.  It's
>gonna take time for beginners to learn how to DP and DP at the right
>time.  Guile is easier to use and is powerful, so I'd pick him.
>Bison, Blanka won't be on the list 'cose I think these 2 characters
>are too powerful.  The beginner just won't learn the general game
>tactics and strategies as fast.  He/She would rely on the power and
>supermoves of those 2 characters.

I would teach them Chun Li first.  I hate Chun Li, but for a beginner she is
a good character to learn.  Speed, easy-to-do special moves.  
I think a beginner would learn "instant" special moves quicker than 
"charge-up" special moves.  And very specialized characters, I would teach
last.

I would teach a beginner in this order:

Chun Li
Blanka
Bison
Ken/Ryu
.
.
.
.
.
Dhalsim
Zangief



>What do you think?


>--
>------

>Mat Hen		


-- 
Brian T Odom
From: epasls@kuhub.cc.ukans.edu
Newsgroups: alt.games.sf2
Subject: wuarchive-cartcopy.zip...where?
Date: 11 Oct 92 05:06:06 GMT
Organization: University of Kansas Academic Computing Services

recently i saw a post on either alt.games.sf2 
or rec.games.video.arcade on an article on wuarcive.wustl.edu
that gave instructions on making a cart copier.

could someone who knows tell me what subdirectory its on.
i forgot and it would take me years to search that thing.

thanks very much in advance.
Organization: University of Illinois at Chicago
Date: Wednesday, 7 Oct 1992 15:21:31 CDT
From: <U58505@uicvm.uic.edu>
Newsgroups: alt.games.sf2
Subject: Re: Best characters to use

I just have to say one thing about your comment on Ken being lame -
can't argue with you there.  Heh heh.  Later.

The X-Man
From: brehob@plantain.cps.msu.edu (Mark W Brehob)
Newsgroups: alt.games.sf2
Subject: Re: SF3:  Game Suggestion
Date: 11 Oct 92 21:46:32 GMT
Organization: Michigan State University

Christopher Jon Petit writes
> 
>   I think a major complaint about SF2 (and CE) is that the game is too
> unbalanced, in some ways.  So, how about we just add one little thing...
> 
>   A fatigue meter, which decreases slowly (different rates for each
> character), but goes up when you punch/kick, and goes WAY up if you do a
> special move (e.g. Ryu's Fireball/Uppercut).  As it goes up, your  
character
> doesn't jump as high, doesn't inflict as much damage when he does hit,
> moves slower (on the ground), and blocks slower.
> 
>   This would prevent the totally annoying tactic that any character with  
a
> missile attack has---do it, nicking off your energy, then if you jump  
in,
> WHAM---Blade Kick/Uppercut/whatever.  You'd hafta play a more paced  
game, and
> time your blows more carefully, since they would make you tired.
> 
>   Opinions?
> 
Great idea, I think this would make the game a lot more fun...
But hey, thats me, thats what I like
Brehob
From: 910427m@ace.acadiau.ca (JASON MATTHEW MCDONALD)
Newsgroups: alt.games.sf2
Subject: Re: sf2 for PC
Date: 14 Oct 92 12:37:12 GMT
Organization: Acadia University

In article <1992Oct14.020233.6169@monu6.cc.monash.edu.au> ins882e@aurora.cc.monash.edu.au (Mr B.C. Tay) writes:
>From: ins882e@aurora.cc.monash.edu.au (Mr B.C. Tay)
>Subject: Re: sf2 for PC
>Date: Wed, 14 Oct 1992 02:02:33 GMT
>Hey, if you have that software, then send it to ftp and share it with others ,
>will ye?
>I want IT!!!!!!!!!!(If you are not talking about nonsense....I mean...you make
>it up)....
>
>\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\
>Sonic boom in PC
>\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\
>


I agree, an FTP site would be much better.  However, if you post it, I won't 
complain.
     ______________________________________________________________
   /|    ________________    ________ |   Jason "Toast" McDonald   |
  | |       /  ___  ___ ____    /     |   910427m@ace.acadiau.ca   |
  | |      /  /  / /__//___    /      |   Acadia University,       |
  | |     /  /__/ /  / ___/   /       |   Wolfville, Nova Scotia   |
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