HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: yshah@lucpul.it.luc.edu (Guessing)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
Subject: Apology for the Hinz "Paratwa" question's
Summary: hinz
Keywords: hinz
Date: 28 Sep 92 02:39:27 GMT
Organization: Loyola University Chicago


   While not neccessarily new to the UseNet, ther are time when one is  
allowed a certain leniency towards improper etiquette.  In my previous
posting I asked some questions concerning Mr. Hinz's third book entitled
"Paratwa".  In my haste, I forgot to add a spoiler warning.  Extremely 
rude? I concur.  How did I learn of my mistake you might ask?  Well, I 
was sent a rather effectual letter:

 

>From: Al Billings <mimir@u.washington.edu>

> Thanks for the spoiler warning, asshole. Luckily, I realized you were
>giving away the plot of the third book (which isn't even out in paperback)
>and cleared the screen. Learn about spoilers before you post this crap as
>most of us haven't read the book yet.

   While I think that it was proper of Mr. Billings to show me my mistake
I do take offense at his language.  Mr. Billings did it occur to you that
I might not know about spoilers?  that people are allowed a certain amount
of leeway if they are new? And I did not give away the plot, perhaps the 
ending (of which you still know nothing of).  I asked extremely specific
questions and perhaps some might have answers for me.  

And lastly Mr. Billings I had thought the book had been out for quite some
time.  I went to the local library, why don't YOU try that?!  Would it have
been so hard to say it nicely.

==========================
Yatrik Shah <yshah@lucpul.it.luc.edu>

(P.S.: I don't take  to insults very nicely when YOU hid it from "most of us"
       So Eat Shit and Die, you scurvy little prick!)

Oh, and have nice day. :)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
From: emery@Dr_No.mitre.org (David Emery)
Subject: Re: Looking for Magical Books
Organization: The Mitre Corp., Bedford, MA.
Date: Sun, 4 Oct 1992 01:54:45 GMT

"The Face in the Frost", John Bellairs
				dave
From: aldis@kralizec.zeta.org.au (Aldis Ozols)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
Subject: Re: Gormenghast vol. 3
Keywords: Peake, insanity
Date: 30 Sep 92 00:53:19 GMT
Organization: Kralizec Dialup Unix Sydney: +61-2-837-1183 V.32

grey@bnr.ca (Bryan Miller) writes:

>|> haven't been able to locate them. Can someone please
>|> post the ISBNs so I can order them?
>|>

From my 1970s Penguin paperback versions:

Titus Groan: ISBN 0 14 00.2762 9
Gormenghast: ISBN 0 14 00.2890 0
Titus Alone: ISBN 0 14 00.3091 3


Aldis Ozols
From: ca572@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Mark L. Stackpole)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
Subject: Re: Enders Trilogy by Orson Scott Card
Date: 6 Oct 1992 23:02:58 GMT
Organization: Case Western Reserve University, Cleveland, Ohio (USA)
NNTP-Posting-Host: hela.ins.cwru.edu


The name of the final (yes, final) book of the Ender series is
called _Ender's Children_. It is set for late summer/early fall
of 1993.
Could the children in the title be the Bugs or the Piggies, or
could it be litl' Ender and older brother II that were created
when Ender went into that magic spacecraft. It's been over a year
since I read _Xenocide_ so I'm not too clear what the Sam Hill
happened at the end.
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
From: ins894r@aurora.cc.monash.edu.au (Aaron Wigley [Wigs])
Subject: Re: Julian may: history of the rebellion??
Organization: Monash University
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1 PL6]
Date: Sun, 4 Oct 1992 00:29:14 GMT

jeff wilder (wilder@mik.uky.edu) wrote:
[ regarding the Pliocene as a buildup to the Rebellion ]
: 
: Jesus Christ.  I'd kill to be able to write something that good as 
: "background."  <sigh>

Well, she did plan it for quite a few years before putting pen to paper :)
(I'll dig out the interview with Julian May out of the Pliocene Companion
for those interested).

: ==============================================================================
: | Jeff W  uk06666@ukpr.uky.edu | Meddle not in the affairs of cats, for they |
: | Wilder  & wilder@mik.uky.edu | are subtle, and will piss on your cyberdeck.|
: ==============================================================================

The Wigs of Oz,
Aaron Wigley
From: SA121@phx.cam.ac.uk (Arrowsmith)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
Subject: Re: Alan Garner
Date: 2 Oct 92 14:26:35 GMT
Organization: Surrealists against Lobsters

>In article <1992Oct1.161942.22862@linus.mitre.org> ptrei@bistromath.mitre.org (Peter Trei) writes:
>
>"     I used to spend hours with Weirdstone, Gomrath, and the
>"appropriate Ordnance Survey map, tracing out the travels of the
>"characters (Red Shift is also set in the same general area).
>
I think one of the reasons I enjoyed Red Shift so much was that I *didn't*
need an OS (or any other sort of map) because I know the area anyway.  It
was a similar sort of feeling to the one I got reading Geoff Ryman's "The
Child Garden" while studying in Bloomsbury (where the main character 
grows up).

--
\S
SA121@phx.cam.ac.uk           | There's nowt |"Stormy weather turns to blue;
sarrowsm@nyx.cs.du.edu        | so queer as  |"Here's a song to take with you:
                              | folk....     |  --Mike Oldfield, "Taurus II"
From: bjgaed@bb1t.monsanto.com
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
Subject: Re: Characters I Hate to Love
Date: 2 Oct 92 16:23:07 CST
Organization: Monsanto Company, St. Louis, MO

In article <1992Oct2.060548.8454@ee.eng.ohio-state.edu>, rob@hoster.eng.ohio-state.edu (Rob Carriere) writes:
> In article <1afu0oINN505@usenet.INS.CWRU.Edu> sdh5@po.CWRU.Edu (Scott D.
> Hurley) writes: 
>>Remember, evil is *supposed* to be more tempting than good [...]
> 
> Indeed?
> 
> SR

Indeed!

If good were more tempting than evil, then humans would choose good 
over evil most of the time, a situation which does not pertain.  

q.e.d.

--Electric Monk            (Bruce Gaede); 
                            e-mail: bjgaed@ccmail.monsanto.com

"...and then time started seriously to pass."
--Douglas Adams, _Dirk Gently's Holistic Detective Agency_
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
From: arthurc@sfsuvax1.sfsu.edu (Arthur Chandler)
Subject: Re: ubiquitous Arthurian mythos
Organization: California State University, Sacramento
Date: Thu, 1 Oct 1992 00:37:53 GMT

  An answer to the "why the rehash?" question, and a recommendation:

  Alfred Lord Tennyson's *Idylls of the King* is, IMHO, the most exalted
treatment of the story ever written.  If you only have time for one of
the tales, try "The Holy Grail."  The vision of he grail itself by
Galahad and Percival is some of the best mystical writing in the
language.  And the conclusion, in which King Arthur tells why someone
who is invested with social obligations cannot abandon his duites for a
religious quest, no matter how holy, is a supreme example of its kind,
and a classic statement in the "way of the world -- way of the
otherworld" debate that has engaged thinkers for centuries.
  Tennyson himself said he wasn't interested in "reheating old myths."
Either the ancient tales had to have eternal *and* contemporary
relevance, or they weren't worth retelling.
 And if "The Holy Gril" proves to rich, try his "Gareth and Lynette." a
beautiful springtime tale....
From: edgar@function.mps.ohio-state.edu (Gerald Edgar)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
Subject: Re: Any comments on  ENTROVERSE  by James Hogan?
Date: 28 Sep 1992 10:04:06 -0400
Organization: The Ohio State University, Dept. of Math.
NNTP-Posting-Host: function.mps.ohio-state.edu

In article <1992Sep28.124155.25939@cs.rochester.edu> dietz@cs.rochester.edu (Paul Dietz) writes:
>In article <billd.717657838@cheetah> billd@informix.com (William Daul) writes:
>
>  > Any comments on ENTROVERSE by James Hogan?
>
>Bleauuugh (all over the carpet).
>
>Ditto for the other 3 books in the series.  What a waste of trees.
>

You read all 4 even though they were that bad?  You must have more
free time than I do.  I read ENTOVERSE and decided not to
read the others.  But I did read it through clear to the end.
If you make the mistake of reading the back cover, there will be no
surprises in the book for you...

-- 
  Gerald A. Edgar                Internet:  edgar@mps.ohio-state.edu
  Department of Mathematics      Bitnet:    EDGAR@OHSTPY
  The Ohio State University      telephone: 614-292-0395 (Office)
  Columbus, OH 43210             -292-4975 (Math. Dept.) -292-1479 (Dept. Fax)
From: dchhabra@stpl.ists.ca (Deepak CHHABRA)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
Subject: Re: The Dragon Reborn
Date: 30 Sep 92 21:07:14 GMT
Reply-To: dchhabra@stpl.UUCP (Deepak CHHABRA)
Organization: Institute for Space and Terrestrial Science

In article <yshah.717542872@lucpul.it.luc.edu> yshah@lucpul.it.luc.edu (Guessing) writes:
>
>    The Dragon Reborn is like a Bad Kung-Fu, where you know all the 
>scenarios, your just watching it cause you need a good laugh. I'm sorry
>to say this but DR was boring beyond belief.

I just found out about this newsgroup, so this is my first post.  IMHO, 
The Wheel of Time series is the best fantasy I've read since LoTR.  Jordan
has done a magnificent job with virtually every literary element, and DR
was anything *but* boring.

>  I'm simply aghast to find out
>that there maybe 4 more books to read before the end.  I could do without
>all the "details" as some put it....there simply just too much of it.  I got
>tired of "Rand does better with girls..." constantly throughout the book.

I thought this thread was hilarious.

>  The problem as I see it is that there is no overall story you can get a hold 
>of; things seemed be thrown randomly in for no reason at all except to get from
>point A to point B.  It seems that Jordan started out the formula properly but
>couldn't wait to tell things.  There is too much filler throughout the book and 
>the characters constantly whining about this or that. Usually there are reasons
>for calling someone a dragon(where are the dragons?) or a lion (where are the 
>lions?)....too many discrepancies....and really don't want to wade thru 4 more
>books to find out.
>
What precisely would you define as 'overall story'?  Or do you think it's necessary
to spell out the whole plot in the first 3 chapters and spend the rest of the book
watching everything unfold according to schedule?  The 'things thrown in randomly'
only contribute to an intricate plot as well as character development. As for filler,
I have absolutely no idea what you are talking about.  Example, please.

Regarding 'constant whining', I consider it to be the presence of internal conflict
more than anything, and it actually contributes to the plot development much more than
straightforward storytelling in the third person, let alone 'filler'. IMHO, internal 
conflict isn't used nearly enough by most authors, yet it is such a powerful tool.  How
can the reader guess the outcome of a story when a character hasn't resolved his or her
own doubts in the story?  BTW, dragons are a symbol of chaos, and Rand is ta'varen 
(big time).  He's the guy that's supposed to break the world, remember?  Enough reason
to call him a dragon, if you ask me.  And who's been called a lion?

No, Jordan has definitely written a great story.  His plots are excellent, as are his        
development and storytelling. The story presents a rich history, and he's paid exceptional
attention to detail and consistency.  My only problem is having to wait for the next book,
since in Canada we seem to be a little behind in new releases ...

dchhabra@stpl.ists.ca
From: chrismg@ccwf.cc.utexas.edu (christian gadeken)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
Subject: Re: The Dragon Reborn
Date: 26 Sep 92 20:00:41 GMT
Organization: The University of Texas at Austin, Austin TX

In article <lye.717187599@sfu.ca> lye@fraser.sfu.ca (Bill Lye) writes:
>chaojira@fraser.sfu.ca (Viboon Chaojirapant) writes:
>
>>         IMHO, what makes a novel good/great is whether after reading, the
>>readers will feel that it is worth the time and money spent in it, not
>>the percentage composition of the story.
>
>Another indicator of how good it is is this:  Two months after reading it for
>the first time, ask yourself if you would read it again.  If you say yes,
>(as I did for this series) then it is a good book.  Interestingly, the only
>other series that I've said this for in the last couple years has been
>David Duncan's _Man_Of_His_Word_ series....
>-- 

Actually, the method I use for grading books is how often I
want to reread them *right after I buy them.*  With the
Wheel of Time series the answer has always been "5 or 6."
(It does help that I read at an absolutely voracious rate.)
The only other books I reread that often are some Steven Brust
and Diane Duane.


-- 
			C h r i s t i a n  G a d e k e n

Yakumo: "But I really did destroy a monster in Hong Kong!"
Saru  : "Ahem, ahem"
Yakumo: "Saru, do you believe me?"
Saru  : "Where's my Hong Kong souvenir?"
Xref: sparky rec.arts.sf.written:13268 sci.lang:7444
From: goldfarb@ocf.berkeley.edu (David Goldfarb)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written,sci.lang
Subject: Re: Science Fiction books with linguistic content
Date: 1 Oct 1992 07:26:17 GMT
Organization: The Sinister Icy Black Hand of Death Club
Reply-To: goldfarb@ocf.berkeley.edu (David Goldfarb)
NNTP-Posting-Host: hailstorm.berkeley.edu
Originator: goldfarb@hailstorm.berkeley.edu

In article <1992Sep29.184708.5409@oracle.us.oracle.com> mfriedma@uucp (Michael Friedman) writes:
)A Poul Anderson story whose name I can't remember about Roan Tom
)	landing on a planet that has new meaning for words like
)	friend, slave, and business.

	"A Tragedy of Errors". It's collected in _The Long Night_, from Tor.

-- 
   David Goldfarb          | "Think of the ragged poverty of a language that 
goldfarb@ocf.berkeley.edu  | has to make one word do the work of six, and a
goldfarb@UCBOCF.BITNET     | poor weak thing of three letters at that."
                           |  -- Mark Twain, "The Awful German Language"
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
From: kaos@buhub.bradley.edu (Michael Huber)
Subject: Re: julian may
Organization: Bradley University
Distribution: rec
Date: Tue, 29 Sep 92 23:33:55 GMT

In <199224.1305.1963@ALMAC> david.emmerson@almac.co.uk writes:
>Hello World!
>        Are there any Julian May fans reading? Of course there are,
>        silly question really. Can anyone help me with the following:
>        1. Does anyone have the paperback release dates for the
>           Millieu books?
		Alright here goes:

		Many Colored Land:  1983,1988
		The Golden Torc:  1983,1989
		The Nonborn King:  1984,1988
		The Adversary:  1985,1989
		The Surveillance:  1988
		The Metaconcert:  1989
		The Intervention hardcover: 1987  h
	All the above taken from my books that I own.
>        2. Can someone point me in the direction of a short story
>           collection containing "Dune Roller"?
		Sorry I'm unable to help there...
>        3. Does anyone want to discuss the good lady's work with me?
		Sure..I've read almost all of it including her new Trillium
	stuff...
>Torc to you later,
	Cute.
-- 
 +----------------------------------------------------------------------+ 
 {INTERNET: kaos@buhub.bradley.edu                   Kaos               } 
 {	    kaos@bucc1.bradley.edu         (Minor Lord of Anarchy       }
 {	    kaos@bucs1.bradley.edu   Chaotic Enterprises - Anarchy R US }
 {	    kaos@camelot.bradley.edu                                    }
 +----------------------------------------------------------------------+       
 The Stalker of the Shadows, stalks the Night in Search of Death
--
 +----------------------------------------------------------------------+ 
 {INTERNET: kaos@buhub.bradley.edu                   Kaos               } 
 {	    kaos@bucc1.bradley.edu         (Minor Lord of Anarchy       }
 {	    kaos@bucs1.bradley.edu   Chaotic Enterprises - Anarchy R US }
 {	    kaos@camelot.bradley.edu                                    }
 +----------------------------------------------------------------------+       
 The Stalker of the Shadows, stalks the Night in Search of Death
From: dac@prolix.apana.org.au (Andrew Clayton)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
Subject: Re: Chanur Series
Date: Tue, 06 Oct 1992 10:15:49 GMT
Organization: More like Dis~, really.
X-Newsreader: Arn V1.00 beta rel2

In article <1992Oct5.162742.2764@walter.bellcore.com>, Michael Lynch writes:

> I just finished C.J. Cherryh's second book in the Chanur Series,
> "Chanur's Venture."  The book ends abruptly, without a resolution

This could get confusing. Hold on to your hat ...

The first Chanur book was _The Pride of Chanur_. This is a
standalone work.

The next book was split up into _three_ distinct tomes, probably
as a marketting excercise, although Cherryh does explain at some
length why the formatting was chosen [at the end of _Kif ...]

The titles are

_Chanur's Venture_
_The Kif Strike Back_
_Chanur's Homecoming_

They are all really one story, and are amongst my personal
favourites. Some people opine that it's just an extended chase,
which is true, but hardly an adequate accolade for the depth of
field that Cherryh provides. I'll avoid preaching to the
converted.

Another book has since been released, _Chanur's Legacy_ [I
believe], which deals with Hilfy Chanur's time as a spaceship
captain. Mixed reviews tending towards the positive, I'm waiting
for the paperback version.

> My question is, do you suppose that "Chanur's Venture" and "The
> Kif Strike Back" were originally one book, and that someone (Cherryh?
> An editor? DAW Books?) decided it was too long, and had to be split?

As I said, Cherryh explains it very well in the books themselves,
in the afterword of _The Kif Strike Back_.

> BTW, I'm thoroughly enjoying these books.  They're good reads.

Triffic. Spread the word.

Dac
--
dac@prolix.apana.org.au              David Andrew Clayton.           // _| _  _
dac@prolix.sserve.cc.adfa.oz.au      Canberra, Australia           \X/ (_](_](_

** NOTE ** my mailfeed is currently UP AGAIN!. 
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written,sci.lang
From: dant@techbook.com (Dan Tilque)
Subject: Re: Science Fiction books with linguistic content
Organization: Pseudopolis Yard
Date: Sun, 27 Sep 1992 08:19:43 GMT

richwing@leland.Stanford.EDU (Rich Wingerter) writes:
>Don't forget "A Clockwork Orange" with its quaint futuristic version of
>anglicized Russian.

Russianized English.  If it were anglicized Russian, you couldn't have
read it without knowing Russian.  As far as I remember, he just used a
bunch of Russian words in place of English ones.  No syntax changes (or
only trivial ones).

---
Dan Tilque    --     dant@techbook.com
From: jjfink@skcla.monsanto.com
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
Subject: Review: T Bisson: Voyage to the Red Planet
Date: 5 Oct 92 13:09:53 GMT
Article-I.D.: skcla.1992Oct5.130953.1
Organization: Searle, Skokie, IL
Nntp-Posting-User: lhfost

Here's a fun book:  Terry Bisson's _Voyage to the Red Planet_ (1990?)
It's light, humorous, full of running gags, and just plain a good read.
It's not very socially significant, doesn't have a message, the characters
aren't too deep, but it's definitely worth a read as entertainment.

Basic summary:  post-depression 21st century, hollywood producer snatches up a
mothballed NASA Mars project.

The closest thing to this book would be Harry Harrison's _Technicolor Time
Machine_. 

-- 
jjfink@skcla.monsanto.com
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"I want peace on earth, and goodwill towards man."
"We don't do that kind of thing, we're the United States Government!"
  -- from _Sneakers_
From: rhiann@milton.u.washington.edu (Sandra Hereld)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
Subject: Re: SF Novels That Would Make Great Films
Date: 28 Sep 92 23:51:48 GMT
Article-I.D.: u.1992Sep28.235148.29497
Organization: University of Washington, Seattle

Clay's Ark by Octavia Butler would be good, but Wild Seed by her
would be great! Action, characters, weird earth, I'm salivating...

Sandy
Xref: sparky rec.arts.sf.written:13107 sci.lang:7387
From: 00hfstahlke@bsu-ucs.uucp
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written,sci.lang
Subject: Re: Science Fiction books with linguistic content
Date: 28 Sep 92 18:34:54 GMT

In article <1992Sep27.081943.3793@techbook.com>, dant@techbook.com (Dan Tilque) writes:
> richwing@leland.Stanford.EDU (Rich Wingerter) writes:
> As far as I remember, he just used a
> bunch of Russian words in place of English ones.  No syntax changes (or
> only trivial ones).

Robert Heinlein plays some minor syntactic tricks in _The Moon is a Harsh
Mistress_, dropping copulas and some articles.  The effect is almost as good as 
one hears on Rocky and Bullwinkle.

Herb Stahlke
Ball State University
From: curtis@cs.berkeley.edu (Curtis Yarvin)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
Subject: Re: Qool LeGuin Essay (was Re: _Winds of Change_ by Mercedes Lackey (no spoilers))
Date: 26 Sep 92 22:57:20 GMT
Organization: CS Dept. Snakepit - Do Not Feed.
NNTP-Posting-Host: rattler.cs.berkeley.edu

In article <1992Sep26.220930.26495@blaze.cs.jhu.edu> arromdee@jyusenkyou.cs.jhu.edu (Ken Arromdee) writes:
>In article <1a0c50INNcf2@agate.berkeley.edu> curtis@cs.berkeley.edu (Curtis Yarvin) writes:
>>Anyone know where I can find this?  Bound, preferably, with
>>Delany's equally-scathing essay on LeGuin; but anything will do.
>
>OK, now where can I find that, too?

It's in _The Jewell-Hinged Jaw_, I believe.  Where you could
find _that_ I am devoid of clue.  I doubt you'll find it at
the Rotunda...

c
From: lindsay+@cs.cmu.edu (Donald Lindsay)
Subject: Re: BodySynth
Organization: School of Computer Science, Carnegie Mellon
Date: Sun, 27 Sep 1992 03:13:42 GMT


markbr@radian.uucp (markbr) writes:
># >  >>That dance where the dancers generate the music themselves

Lauri Anderson has one of the about 3 copies of the BodySynth. I
attended an interesting demo of one of the other copies, and the bad
news is that it's pretty much a dead end - as a musical instrument.
[It has an exciting future in physical therapy.] Electrical
measurement of the body doesn't offer enough discrimination, or
enough channels, to be really rich enough.

>Sorry, guys. There's been an instrument around since at least the sixties,
>whose name I canNOT remember, that you play by, I believe, moving your
>hand either in its (electrical?magnetic?) field, or over a charged plate.

The Theremin was shown at the Chicago World's Fair in, umm, 1933.  I
think Jimmy Page plays one in the Led Zep flic, "The Song Remains the
Same". Unfortunately, you can't really go very far with a theremin.

What *does* have real promise, is to directly measure angles: the
geometric, not the muscular. Like data gloves. Imagine a performer
who stabs a rainbow of laser light across the stage through a mist;
who then walks up to it and plays as if an instrument were there!
Some of us were suggesting that 15 years ago, and I think it's
finally going to happen in this decade.
-- 
Don		D.C.Lindsay 	Carnegie Mellon Computer Science
From: Beth.Friedman@p5.f341.n282.z1.tdkt.kksys.com (Beth Friedman)
Sender: FredGate@tdkt.kksys.com
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
Subject: Re: author'n'title...
Date: Tue, 29 Sep 1992 20:05:50 -0600

 TGMM>  hello! I remember reading a book a long time ago 
 TGMM> about some dude going to another planet keeping 
 TGMM> contact with earth. during his going over the 
 TGMM> surface he heard a voice saying something like "my 
 TGMM> brains for yours!", and this slime mold thing did 
 TGMM> something to him. back on earth he was able to 
 TGMM> transform to some kind of wolf-like creature, and he 
 TGMM> was hunted. this is all I remember. 

Was the phrase something like "I share (or swap) with you my mind"?  If so, the
book is TIME IS THE SIMPLEST THING by Clifford Simak.

 * Origin: Beth's Point: Minneapolis, MN (1:282/341.5)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written