HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: shahr@ecf.toronto.edu (SHAH RITESH)
Subject: Re: Orioles' magic formula for World Series Title
Keywords: Baltimore Orioles
Organization: University of Toronto, Engineering Computing Facility
Distribution: na 
Date: Tue, 15 Dec 1992 14:06:32 GMT

In article <1992Dec10.044437.10209@jhunix.hcf.jhu.edu> admiral@jhunix.hcf.jhu.edu (Steve C Liu) writes:
>	As the recent tumult in baseball signings and trades goes on, the
>Baltimore Orioles has (to best of my knowledge without a news source) done
>very little except resign Sutcliffe. I feel that the Orioles are probably
>doing the right thing provided the following things happen:
>
>Cal Ripken, Jr. has at least an average year (1983-1991), of course a 1991-
>like season wouldn't hurt.
>
>Brady Anderson repeats the early '92 performance. 
>
>Mike Devereaux stays on track.
>
>Leo Gomez doesn't go in a long slump.
>
>Chris Hoiles has a year like '92 before the injury.
>
>Mike Mussina stays on track to an Cy Young Award.
>
>Big Ben McDonald repeats his performance.
>
>Gregg Olson becomes the untouchable closer like that stretch of ten? straight
>saves.
>
>Sutcliffe can keep the games close for the bullpen.
>The bullpen has a 1991-like stellar performance.
>
>Arthur Rhodes gains control, Bob Milacki rebounds from 1992.
>
>Billy Ripken at least hits above .275 or Mark McLemore gets power.
>
>Randy Milligan doesn't have another long slump.
>
>Joe Orsulak stays healthy or Chito Martinez develops.
>
>If most of this happens then can you say 1993 World Champion Baltimore
>Orioles? Why Not?(A flashback to the miracle 1989 O's)

*Extremely sorry to disappoint you but for the O's to win the World Series, they
have to win their division first.  And for that to happen, either the Blue Jays
must not play in 1993 or the O's hold the All-Stars hostage after the Mid-SeasonClassic there !!**

>|President of the Earth(Sol, Milky Way, Universe I) Chapter of the Pi Club |
>~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~


-- 
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Ritesh Shah                              
E-Mail: shahr@ecf.toronto.edu 
University of Toronto                                        
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
From: mjones@fenway.aix.kingston.ibm.com (Mike Jones)
Subject: Re: Boston 93 Pitching staff?
Date: Wed, 16 Dec 92 18:48:58 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: IBM T. J. Watson Research
X-Newsreader: Tin 1.1 PL3

dbloom@bnr.ca (David Bloom P025) writes:
: 
: SP Clemens
: SP Viola
: SP Dopson
  SP ?       probably Darwin
  SP ?       probably Hesketh
: 
: RP Melendez
: RP Harris
  RP ?       Bankhead
  RP ?       Quantrill
  RP ?       maybe Matt Young, hopefully Daryl Irvine or Ken Ryan
  
   Mike Jones  |  AIX/ESA Development  |  mjones@donald.aix.kingston.ibm.com

(I'm told Apple's lawyers will actively prosecute/persecute anyone who uses a
Mac in a film such that it makes Macs or Apple look bad, or injures a human
being.  Let's get Disney to do it, and tie up both sets of lawyers for the
next decade.  B-)
	- Jim Drew
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
From: tedward@cs.cornell.edu (Edward [Ted] Fischer)
Subject: Re: Baseball finances query
Organization: Cornell Univ. CS Dept, Ithaca NY 14853
Date: Fri, 18 Dec 1992 00:45:39 GMT

In article <kbanaian.115.0@bernard.pitzer.claremont.edu> kbanaian@bernard.pitzer.claremont.edu (King Banaian) writes:
>
>Gee, who pissed in *your* corn flakes?  I think the White Sox moved that 
>year, no?  If so, wouldn't that year show a bunch of one-time expenditures?

Perhaps...

>These are not out of line vs. the other large-market clubs (both NYs, LA, 
>Tor, Bos).  I didn't write these numbers, but they are the only
>*independent* source available.

Are these numbers the result of an independent analysis?  Or were they
simply taken straight from the cooked books of MLB.  It's obvious that
*some* of the numbers are cooked.  Like the TBS contract, which is
worth a hell of a lot more than TBS is paying the Braves.

>>Also, it looks like a lot of the non-player operating expenses are
>>just made up -- Atlanta, San Diego, Pittsburgh, KC, and a bunch of other
>>teams have total operating expenses that, coincidentally, are double
>>player salaries.
>
>Exactly?  This is beginning to read like "My mind is made up.  Don't confuse 
>me with the facts."  Please post alternative data.

Yes, exactly double.  Check it yourself.  I have trouble seeing how
teams can spend $30 million on non-player expenses, and would not be
surprised if this figure include some hefty kickbacks to the owners.
(Better to list them as "salaries" than as profits.)

You seem to be convinced that these numbers are on the level.  Why?
If I were the owner of a major corporation, *I* certainly would do my
best to cook the books.  Why shouldn't the baseball owners?  (Believe
me, baseball owners are at least *twice* as sneaky as I am.  They
probably use tricks I've never even *heard* of.)

>>Don't know how fudged those numbers were.
>
>Henry is a public finance guy, a good one at that, and has been at Brookings 
>since the Stone Age, but IMO he's a hired gun in this.  Pay me large coin 
>and I'll say the owners are in worse shape than Charles Keating!  The owners 
>are NOT about to have a report show that they are making a handsome profit.  

Yeah...

Basically, we are left with two alternatives.  Choose whichever makes
the most sense to you.  Consider also that the value of even the
*weakest* ballclub is around $100 million.  And that there is no real
shortage of investors willing to shell out that kind of money to join
the league.

1) Baseball owners are basically philanthropists, making a very small
return on their investment, and often losing money.  Only a few clubs
can count on double-digit profits each year.  Owners pay huge salaries
to the players because the Yankees do, and the rest will pay any price
to beat the Yankees.

2) Baseball owners are shrewd businessmen who didn't get rich by
giving away millions.  Some of them are making a little money, or even
losing occasionally.  Many of them are making a lot of money.  They
pay the salaries because the money is there.

-Valentine
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
From: tedward@cs.cornell.edu (Edward [Ted] Fischer)
Subject: Re: Statheads and park effects
Organization: Cornell Univ. CS Dept, Ithaca NY 14853
Date: Mon, 21 Dec 1992 03:49:50 GMT

In article <kbanaian.122.0@bernard.pitzer.claremont.edu> kbanaian@bernard.pitzer.claremont.edu (King Banaian) writes:
>
>To all that's been said, add this:  park effects are computed on both 
>visiting and home teams.  The correlation between home and visitor 
>indices is usually quite similar.  Here is but one example:

Not really...  It *is* true that players tend to play better at home.
This tends to skew the results.

>	1990-1992 Fenway Doubles factor:
>		By Boston hitters @ Fenway	506
>		By Boston hitters on road	356	1.42
>
>		By opp. hitters @ Fenway	431
>		By opp. hitters on road*	384	1.12
>
>Park effect is the result of averaging the two, so we say that Fenway gives 
>a 27% increase in doubles.  The difference between the two looks 
>striking, but really could be due to chance fluctuations.

I doubt it.  See above.  (Not to mention that the Sox tend to stack
their lineup with hitters who can take advantage of the Wall.)

>And if you don't really believe in 
>park effects, please tell me your guess to the number of doubles Jody Reed 
>will hit next year, and how you arrived at that guess?  

I doubt Reed will hit fewer than 30 doubles next year, unless he
totally sucks like he did in 1992.  He got some doubles off of the
wall, but most of his doubles were down-the-line shots that are
doubles in any park.  He's primarily a line-drive hitter, and so
should gain some advantage from the large turf parks in the NL.

And Boggs?  Don't be surprised if he hits 20 HRs.  He is (I think)
an intelligent enough hitter to learn to pull the ball.

-Valentine
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
From: drw3l@delmarva.evsc.Virginia.EDU (David Robert Walker)
Subject: Re: Brett Boone
Organization: University of Virginia
Date: Fri, 18 Dec 1992 18:29:26 GMT

In article <1992Dec18.153652.2691@noose.ecn.purdue.edu> ts@chainsaw.ecn.purdue.edu (Thomas Ruschak) writes:
>In article <AwS=GYC@engin.umich.edu> chyang@metaphor.engin.umich.edu (Chung Hsiung Yang) writes:
>
>BATTERS   BA   SLG   OBP   G  AB   R   H  TB 2B 3B HR RBI  BB  SO SB CS  E
>BOONE,B .194  .318  .224  33 129  15  25  41  4  0  4  15   4  34  1  1  6
>
>	I don't see anything special there, even considering his age... 6
>errors in 33 games... What kinda stats did he have in the minors? (I'm just
>trying to figure out what all the hoopla was about)
>
>Tom

When I project his minor league numbers to the AL, I get

                      ab   h  db tp  hr bb sb  cs  ba    oba   sa
1990 Peninsula(Caro)  257  62  8  1   7 40  4  2  .241  .343  .362
1991 Jacksonvl (Sou)  482 117 13  1  18 63  8  7  .243  .330  .386
1992 Calgary (PCL)    415 106 14  1   9 49 13  9  .255  .334  .359

Those aren't bad numbers for a 21-23 year old middle infielder. The
only problem is, there is no apparent growth in the numbers. He
appears to be a better hitter at this time than the departed Harold
Reynolds. 

The actual lines are 267/383/427 at Peninsula, 255/357/417 at
Jacksonville, 314/398/485 at Calgary. Bill James rates th Calgary
season as 262/325/387.

Clay D.
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
From: kuras@aiag.enet.dec.com (Joe Kuras)
Subject: Re: A new slant on Barry Bonds' uniform number
Reply-To: kuras@aiag.enet.dec.com (Joe Kuras)
Organization: Digital Equipment Corporation
Date: Mon, 14 Dec 1992 16:46:26 GMT


<  If this should happen, the Giants are placed in the un-
<  comfortable position of having to retire a number _twice_.  

For what it is worth, believe it or not, this has been done before. 
Check out the retired  numbers hanging in Yankee Stadium. You'll see
the same number twice, for 2 different former Yankee ballplayers,
who coincidently, played the same position (during different eras).

Any guess as to which players I'm talking about??


The Boston Celtics also had a similar quandry years ago, when they
decided they wanted to honor former Celtic forward & self appointed
traffic cop in the lane, Jungle Jim Luscatof.  But they could not
retire Jungle Jim's number, because they already had done so, in honor
of Dave Cowens (or maybe Cowens was still active & currently wearing it,
I'm foggy on this particular detail). Anyway, they retired Jungle Jim's
nickname instead, hanging "Loscie" from the rafters amongst the other
retired numbers.

joe.
From: 2r73bryantm@vms.csd.mu.edu
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
Subject: ward to atlant
Date: 16 Dec 1992 03:39:15 GMT
Organization: Marquette University - Computer Services
Reply-To: 2r73bryantm@vms.csd.mu.edu
NNTP-Posting-Host: vmsd.csd.mu.edu

ANY word on the D Ward to atlanta for mercker or wholers??

			matt
From: gajarsky@pilot.njin.net (Bob Gajarsky - Hobokenite)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
Subject: Re: My picks, AL/NL East
Date: 18 Dec 92 03:27:05 GMT
Organization: Somewhere in Hoboken

lws@eembox.ncku.edu.tw (WenHsiang Lin) writes:

>> Orestes Destrade will pop 270 with 20 homers.   

>    Is it very difficult to hit home run in Marlins' home ground?
>Orestes Destrade consistantly hits around 40 homers for every 130-game
>season in Japan. I expect him to have more than 20 homers for Marlins
>in next season.

well, first off - japanese baseball, from all that we can tell,
 is roughly similar to AAA baseball - so he'd have a dropoff based
 simply on that.  It might even be lower than that, but I'm not sure.

none of us *know* how miami will be for hitters.  however, the best
 hitting parks tend to be in those cities that are at higher altitudes.
 miami is reasonably close to sea level.  also, the miami minor
 league team, in its league, had the 3rd (out of 10 teams) lowest number
 of runs scored/against, which would lead me to believe that miami
 will be more of a picher's park than all nl parks other than houston
 and los angeles.

- bob gaj
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
From: gajarsky@pilot.njin.net (Bob Gajarsky - Hobokenite)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
Subject: gm's and reporters are idiots.
Date: 15 Dec 92 19:38:51 GMT
Organization: Somewhere in Hoboken


a few things.

according to "most gm's" and one of the local scribes, the red sx
 were the big winners in the winter meetings, because, as they
 said, they got andre dawson and ivan calderon, and bankhead and
 melendez. 

and i'm looking at the red sox, where plantier will have a better
 year than dawson (even WITH the disparity between fenway and
 san diego), and ivan calderon can't be counted on to have a year
 better than whoever he replaced...they got two middle relievers,
 one who happens to be good (bankhead)>  wow.  b.f.d.  what morons
 the gm's and scribes are.

the other thing - BOTH papers i read said the yankees came up losers
 because of the "fiasco with maddux and cone".  excuse me??????  since
 when is a team a loser when it acquires two top notch 
 pitchers for not much?  new york writers expected theyankees
 to automatically get the best thing outthere, and had maddux and
 cone and abbott pencilled into the rotation.  thus, when they
 didn't get the first two, it was "disappointing">


what schmucks. - bob gaj
From: "doug pappas" <doug.pappas@execnet.com>
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
Subject: the mets' all-time te
Date: 15 Dec 92 01:23:00 EST
Reply-To: "doug pappas" <doug.pappas@execnet.com>
Distribution: rec
Organization: Executive Networks Information

HN>I think you really have to pick Doug Flynn, because he *did* win
HN>a Gold Glove (1980).  Gold Gloves were pretty few and far between
HN>for the Mets until Hernandez came along.  Though Flynn couldn't hit, of
HN>course.  He managed a bunt once in a while.

Don't forget the one glorious game where he tied the modern ML record
with three triples.

HN>How about Wayne Garrett?  Totally Arbitrary Reason #1: hit better in the
HN>post-season than HoJo.  Totally Arbitrary Reason #2: better-looking than
HN>HoJo.

How about Lenny Randle?  We need more punch in the lineup...

>LF:  I guess we can give Kevin McReynolds a spot.  Who else?  Kevin Mitchel
>     for a year?

HN>YOU FORGOT RUSTY STAUB!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!  Horrors!

Can Rusty count as only one outfielder?
---
  DeLuxe 1.25 #968  
--
Executive Network Information System  (914) 667-4567
International ILink Host
From: gajarsky@pilot.njin.net (Bob Gajarsky - Hobokenite)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
Subject: Re: Mattingly discussion, take 2.
Date: 18 Dec 92 16:01:15 GMT
Organization: Somewhere in Hoboken

baba o' vesterman wrote about the yankees for a while...

the reason why silvestri has almost no shot of being called up is
 reportedly he can't field shortstop any better than you or i.
 i heard, and i can't verify this, that he made almost 50 errors last
 season, and doesn't have range, and plays shortstop as if the ball 
carries some venereal disease.

and why does everyone think pat kelly is so good?  i see NOTHING that
 shows that he'll be a superstar.  if his fielding (i don't know
 how his DA is) is great, maybe then it's a different story, but
 his hitting definitely doesn't have star written on it.  
 i'd trade him to a team that could trade a power hitting backup.
 for instance, atlanta - for keith mitchell. now THAT would
 be a good trade for the yankees, and i could imagine the braves
 doing that quickly as well.

- bob gaj

(mind you, i'd start mitchell, but that's another story)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
From: dave@snitor.sni.ca (Dave Till)
Subject: Re: joe carter and others
Organization: Darnell Coles Appreciation Society [well, maybe not...]
Distribution: rec
Date: Mon, 14 Dec 1992 22:02:02 GMT

In article <14DEC199211283410@jhuvms.hcf.jhu.edu> doctor8@jhuvms.hcf.jhu.edu (Jason Abner Miller) writes:
>	One addition to this:  Often, the "ability" to walk is based on
>a player's own philosophy, i.e. patience at the plate.

I've asked this question before, but I wonder:  how much of a player's BB
total is based on his patience, lack of selfishness, etc., and how much
is just innate skill?

To put it another way:  do people here really believe that Joe Carter
and Andre Dawson could walk 75 times a year if they were less "selfish"?
Can we list the moral worth of major league hitters by printing out the
BB totals in order?

As a Jays fan, I feel compelled to defend Carter in this way:  considering
that Carter is, by all other measures, a team player (he switches positions
when asked, bunts, plays hard every day, and seems a cheerful sort),
I find it difficult to believe that Carter's low OBP is a consequence of
Joe's wanting to grab all the RBIs for himself.

--Dave "about to be accused of naivete" Till
  e-mail address:  dave@silver.sni.ca or dave@snitor.uucp
Organization: University of Maine System
Date: Thursday, 17 Dec 1992 00:06:01 EST
From: Ryan R Robbins <IO20456@MAINE.MAINE.EDU>
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
Subject: Re: Trivia Question
Distribution: usa
 <1992Dec15.202049.25693@math.toronto.edu> <92350.183108RVESTERM@vma.cc.nd.edu>

About Rule 7.05:

Remember Rule 7.05 says "Each runner including the BATTER-RUNNER...."

This rule is not saying the batter is awarded first base when a
pitch goes into the stands (or a pick-off throw). It is refer-
ring to a batter-runner. In other words, the batter has become
a batter-runner by virtue of a base on balls. In this case he
would be awarded first base only (i).
------------------------------------------------------------
The term "batter-runner" refers to a batter whose time at bat
has just been completed. Nowhere in the rules does it say a
batter becomes a runner if a pitch goes into the stands.
From: poutsmaj@mace.cc.purdue.edu (unknown)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
Subject: Help with SOM player cards
Date: 19 Dec 92 19:57:34 GMT
Organization: Purdue University

Howdy:

I'm trying to set up a "league average" team for my SOM v3.  Does anybody 
have suggestions for cards for each position, including starting pitcher, 
middle relief, and closer along with everything else?

Of course my plan is to replace one of the players with, eg Barry Bonds,
and play them against another team with, eg Kirby Puckett.  Hopefully
after a couple thousand games or so, I'll see a trend emerge...

thanks
paul

PS  If it's not too much trouble, please respond to "Paul@Glow.chem.purdue.edu"
thanks
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
From: snichols@adobe.com (Sherri Nichols)
Subject: Re: Brian Dorsett
Organization: Adobe Systems Incorporated
Distribution: na
Date: Sun, 20 Dec 1992 02:49:10 GMT

In article <1992Dec19.001813.18968@Princeton.EDU> niepornt@phoenix.Princeton.EDU (David Marc Nieporent) writes:
>
>Hell, Junior Ortiz once hit .335 in 170 ABs.
>

But only to win a bet with Rick Rhoden.  (Rhoden and Ortiz had a bet that
year on which of the two of them would have a better batting average).

Sherri Nichols
snichols@adobe.com
From: v085f2wd@ubvmsd.cc.buffalo.edu (Theodore J Kury)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
Subject: Re: Anti-Trust and Baseball
Date: 12 Dec 92 19:44:00 GMT
Organization: University at Buffalo
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41

In article <1992Dec11.211808.29262@data-io.com>, dietz@parody.Data-IO.COM (Kent Dietz) writes...
>In the last year or so, I have been seeing/hearing/reading a lot of 
>threats thrown at Major League Baseball, mostly having to do with 
>the Anti-Trust exemption.  When the Nintendo group made the offer for
>the Mariners, the local politicians did a great deal of chest thumping
>about sueing MLB if the offer was not accepted.  Whether that did any
>good is probably a moot point.  However, I have been wondering what 
>benefit does MLB garner from having the "anti-trust exemption"?  I 
>think that Fay-boy Vincent stated in front of Congress (yesterday?) 
>that he felt the exemption was not of any value anymore.  
> 
>Does anyone have ideas on what would be different if MLB lost this 
>exemption?  The NFL and NBA do not have this exemption.  Does this 
>mean they operate at a disadvantage to MLB? 

I believe Bill James wrote, a few years back, that the minor league teams
would not be under their control if they lost the exemption. The NFL and NBA
have no true farm systems and have to compete with other teams for players
not in their league, so this would seem to make sense. This doesn't explain
the NHL farm system, however.

I believe that NBA, NFL, and NHL teams can move their franchises anywhere
they want, though. This is want Tampa feels should happen. The owners
could block the move because of the exemption.

>Kent Dietz
>Twins in '93
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ted Kury  v085f2wd@ubvms.cc.buffalo.edu
SUNY at Buffalo
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
From: tyeckley@hamp.hampshire.edu
Subject: chickenman in New York
Organization: Hampshire College
Date: Wed, 16 Dec 1992 03:26:52 GMT

Wow...Boggs t the Yankees  I'm not sure how i feel about that
If it really was an off year, than the yanks may have pulled off the coup of
the winter.
Course, if he's as normal as he looked last year, then...
So, although the Yanks blew charlie Hayes off, they have proved that money can
fix most problems. 
All in all, a great move by the new Yorkers.
Course, how are all those yankee fans going to feel when they have to cheer on
a man they've been conditioned to hate for the last ten years? 
been a strange winter.

jon Lejon Levy
hampshire College
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
From: cmk@athena.mit.edu (Charles M Kozierok)
Subject: Re: JAYS KICK BRAVES JAYS KICK BRAVES JAYS KICK BRAVES JAYS KICK BRAVES
Organization: Massachusetts Institute of Technology
Date: Sat, 12 Dec 1992 03:37:49 GMT

In article <1992Dec11.235628.28838@cs.mcgill.ca> hfrg@cs.mcgill.ca (Peter Choi) writes:
>In article <XViHVB1w165w@student.business.uwo.ca> s4lawren@student.business.uwo.ca (Stephen Lawrence) writes:
>>as being "Canada's Game".  I can only agree and eagerly await a repeat 
>>next year.  How about an all Canadian World Series?  That would be nice.
>
>	I can see the headlines now,
>
>	"EXPOS vs JAYS IN ALL CANADIAN SERIES - GAME OF THE CENTURY"

what, more woofing?
it's DECEMBER, you morons!

i never thought i'd have to waste so much energy flaming other
jays and expos fans (term used very loosely in their cases).

get with it! woofing is not appreciated, you make real fans!
and lose the time warp, you're two months late!

sheesh.

--
charles
Date: Wednesday, 16 Dec 1992 17:51:13 EST
From: <RVESTERM@vma.cc.nd.edu>
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
Subject: Re: implications of a certain idea.

jeez, i almost forgot:

if you won a hand of poker with two aces, two tens, and a three,
damn good thing you had that three, and not another ace or ten.

if cito gaston and i decide to play a game of chess, and i give
him queen's odds, if he beats me, cito's obviously a better chess
player than i am.

bob vesterman.