HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: dburgdor@cwis.unomaha.edu (Darryl Burgdorf)
Subject: Re: Group activity
Organization: University of Nebraska at Omaha
Date: Sat, 7 Nov 1992 01:19:47 GMT

Greeting!

I have always felt that the rule requiring groups to hold "published" events
was less a guarantee that those groups would "pay back" their kingdom support
and more an attempt by the kingdom to insure that those groups continue to
thrive.

While I realize there are exceptions to every rule, IN GENERAL, a group which
functions only within itself and holds no events for outsiders to attend, and
whose members do not often travel to events in other, more distant areas, is
either stagnating or in danger of stagnation.  

Requiring the group to hold at least an occasional event -- in other words, 
requiring at least minimal interaction with the rest of the kingdom -- is one
way to help avoid that problem.  I realize it is not a perfect solution, 
perhaps not even the best possible solution.  But again, IN GENERAL, it seems
to work.

Now, I would ask:  What is so difficult about meeting the requirement?  Any
reasonably sized, active group should have no trouble putting on at least one
small event in a year.  I would think that it would be hard NOT to come up
with at least a few ideas!

	In service to the Society and to the Dream,

		Ld Elwyn of Thornbury
			(who's autocratting his own first event in February)

 ------------------------------------------------
| dburgdor @unmcvm.unmc.edu or @cwis.unomaha.edu |
 ------------------------------------------------

Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
From: brandon@gauss.math.brown.edu (Joshua Brandon)
Subject: Re: medieval music (was: Strip the Willow )
Organization: Brown University Mathematics Department
Date: Mon, 9 Nov 1992 19:36:02 GMT

Lord Elwyn writes:

>I have to agree with (Lady?) Ellisef on this.  I have been doing some research
>into early-period musical development, and while by no means an expert, have
>not encountered either any assertion that post-Gregorian chant is somehow
>automatically "Rennaissance" or a tie between the development of musical
>notation and the Rennaissance.

I bow to your (and Ellisef's) superior research --- I have to admit I was
generalizing from what I had gathered, not what I knew.  (A little
knowledge is, indeed, a dangerous thing!)

>(Sorry for being a bit pedantic .... I get that way sometimes!)

Well, I, for one, appreciated it!  The scholarship on the Rialto
is one of my major reasons for reading it.

Para servir a ustedes,

	Simon Santiago de Cordoba		Joshua Brandon
	College-on-Hill, Bridge, EK		brandon@gauss.math.brown.edu
YAZ/socrates
From: ilaine@panix.com (Liz Stokes)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: Perceptions of the SCA
Date: 8 Nov 92 12:52:38 GMT
Organization: PANIX Public Access Unix & Internet, NYC


	Lothar's post about experimental archaology reminded me of a Nova that
aired recently: "This Old Pyramid". A couple of archaologists hired a team of
Egyptian stonemasons and built an 18 foot high pyramid in the desert at Giza.
The idea was to prove that it would be possible to build the real thing using
the techniques historians said they used. They have us beat all to bloody
heck :)  Call your local PBS to see if they have tapes of the episode for sale.
		-Ilaine














-- 
Liz Stokes         | 	Wool is the easiest fiber to spin, it has scales on
Ilaine de Cameron  | 	the surface which interlock, making a very strong 
                   | 	thread. It practically spins itself. 
ilaine@panix.com   |    I can see by your expression that you don't believe me.
From: gray@ibis.cs.umass.edu (Lyle FitzWilliam)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Sealing Wax
Keywords: wax seals
Date: 7 Nov 92 01:31:19 GMT
Reply-To: gray@ibis.cs.umass.edu (Lyle FitzWilliam)
Organization: Bergental, East Kingdom

Request for information and documentation:

I'm doing some research for an associate on the use of sealing wax on letters
and documents.  Specifically, what method(s) were used for melting the wax for
forming the seal?  I am familiar with the using a candle made of sealing wax.
I have also heard of the use of a small pot to hold the wax over a flame.  It
is the latter method that I am seeking information on.

Also, I need documentation on this, not just speculation, preferably including
a description or a graphic depiction of such a melting pot.  Assistance in
coming up with a course of action for researching this question is much
welcome, as the subject of Sigillography (the study of seals) seems to have
limited coverage in the public library near where I work.

Thank you in advance for your time.

Lyle FitzWilliam
Bergental, East
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
Lyle H. Gray                       Internet (personal): gray@cs.umass.edu
Quodata Corporation            Phone: (203) 728-6777, FAX: (203) 247-0249
--(My opinions are my own, and do not represent my employer's opinions)--
From: zebee@sirius.ucs.adelaide.edu.au (Zebee Johnstone)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: I am still bewildered
Date: 11 Nov 92 23:07:05 GMT
Organization: The University of Adelaide
Distribution: world
NNTP-Posting-Host: sirius.itd.adelaide.edu.au

vader@meryl.csd.uu.se (]ke Eldberg) writes:

>William here.

>Dani wrote:

>>(I will add that the non-coercive approach seems to work.  Members do
>>come in at the t-tunic-and-plastic level and become interested in
>>greater authenticity.  And, as we've read in recent posts on the Rialto,
>>the highest standards of authenticity within the Society keep rising.)

>This is my experience also, but only to a degree. Some people do
>get interested, others remain as they are. For every soul we save,
>there are two or three heathens who we do not reach; and these tend
>to bunch together and support each other in their common refusal to
>care for authenticity.

It is an odd thing really.  I have 2 T Tunics that are each about 10 years
old.  I have one or 2 other more speccy court costumes, but don't tend
to wear them.  

I am interested in authemticity, I know what is period and what isn't,
I use wooden tankards and have a period pavilion (viking tent).  My
armour is early periodish, but now I wish I had gone later so
it is more authentic.
  
I think that like many, I would like to be more period, if it was easier.

So what does that make me?  (Besides lazy...)

Selfran

-- 
----------------------------------------------------------------------
     Zebee Johnstone  DoD #605   | You don't own an Italian motorcycle 
     Adelaide City Council       |  - you merely have the privilege 
    zebee@itd.adelaide.edu.au    |    of paying its bills....
From: 00mjstum@leo.bsuvc.bsu.edu (Matthew J. Stum)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: visible inauthenticity of archery
Date: 9 Nov 92 13:46:11 GMT
Organization: Widget Enterprises

Greetings!

About this whole archery inauthenticity thing...

Yes, fiberglass-laminated flat recurves/longbows are visibly OOP to most...
So are the plastic nocks and mass-produced field tips...

Some have complained about the startling OOP look of a line of archers using
recurves...

But let's step back a second and look at it from another angle...

Which would you rather see?  A line of recurves and wooden arrows with
"feathers"?  Or a line of competition compounds with shiny aluminum arrows
with vanes?  To draw an analogy, it's like someone coming to an event with
a SCA T-tunic rather than in mundanes.  Yes, the person could be garbed in
_completely_ authentic Viking or Celtic garb... but perhaps the resources
(time, money, knowledge, etc.) just weren't there.

My point?  Be very careful about not pushing those away that want to have
fun but just don't have the resources by imposing handicaps or other
seemingly-harmless prejudices.  While I know I can't provide everyone with
an authentic bow to help the shooting atmosphere, I do help where I can...
providing more authentic targets, for example... that's something that is
simple, cheap, and goes a long way to improving the atmosphere.

Gwydion

-- 
Matt Stum                    Gwydion ap Myrddin       Ball State University
00mjstum@leo.bsuvc.bsu.edu   Shire of Afonlyn, MK     Muncie, IN  USA
From: larrylf@hpcc01.corp.hp.com (Larry Lynch-Freshner)
Date: Wed, 11 Nov 1992 17:59:27 GMT
Subject: Re: Medieval Astronomy
Organization: the HP Corporate notes server
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca

I'm not sure how much help this will be, but here goes...

Sky & Telescope had an article a couple of months ago by a astronomer who was
interested in the history himself.  He built a refracting telescope (Rats!
Newton is just out of period...) using roughly period techniques.  He used
regular plate glass and sand to grind a 4" objective lens, intentionally not 
doing a very good job (by modern standards).  He also used the same techniques 
to make some simple Huygens and Kelner eyepieces.  He and his coligues were
amazed at the quality of the views from this very primitive telescope.  Now,
for the killer part, since only single lens objectives were used, the telescope
had to be about 50' long to minimize chromatic aberation.  It is hung in the 
center from a tall pole, allowing it to be pointed anywhere.

I've also thought of doing period astronomy, and after making my own 12.5"
mirror, that lens sounds simple.  Unfortunetly, I don't have the facilities 
to haul a 20' - 50' telescope around to events. 

Good luck!

Leofric Flamatopp
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
From: doug@telly.on.ca (Doug Young)
Subject: Re: Filk vs. Recreation (was Re: out-of-period dancing)
Organization: Somewhere just far enough out of Toronto
Date: Thu, 5 Nov 1992 22:13:48 GMT

(Joshua Brandon) writes:
JB: Here's another way of looking at it --- who decides?  If you only allow
JB: period dances, that's an easy criterion.  If allow any dance not being done
JB: in nightclubs in 1992, that's another, only slightly less difficult
JB: criterion.  But if you allow any "period-looking" dance, who gets to
JB: decide?  And if somebody *does* get to decide, why shouldn't it be the
JB: dancemaster or -mistress --- such as Justin, Robyyan, Vashti, or probably
JB: many of the other people who have been writing in favor of more good,
JB: period, dances?  

(T. Archer) writes:
TA: Why put them on the spot as the bad guy? Just BAN all dances that cannot be 
TA: documented as being performed prior to 1650.

Uncle Justinian writes: (That's me)
Don't EVER suggest BANNING something.  It is really up to individual dance 
teachers and musicians to determine what they will teach and play. As such,
it is they and no others that control what is danced
+---------------------------------------+------------------------------------+
| Justinian Clarus, a humble herald in  | Douglas Young                      |
| the service of the Principality of    | doug@telly.on.ca                   |
| Ealdormere, the Middle Kingdom and    | ..!uunet!attcan!telly!doug         |
| a life dedicated to fighting          | Orangeville, Ontario, Canada       |
| feasting and frivolity                | (519) 942-2514                     |
+---------------------------------------+------------------------------------+
From: Joy.Hanson@fbbs.omahug.org (Joy Hanson)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: Renn Faire overlap
Date: 07 Nov 92 16:22:22 CST
Reply-To: joy.hanson@fbbs.omahug.org
Organization: Friend's BBS, Omaha
Followup-To: rec.org.sca

Unto Richard the Saxon comes greetings from Lady Juelda of Salisbury,
  Could you tell me please good gentle what the difference is between the
Markland group and the SCA?

Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: membership
Date: Sun, 01 Nov 1992 15:37:02

A node in the net called Ruth Woodring, coded to Nils Hammer,
on 10-05-92  18:43, about membership.

 RW> Just last weekend, I had as listmistress a lady who knows me quite
 RW> well.   She  still insisted that I show her my fighter 
 RW> authorization card.  She did the  same thing to the Baron 
 RW> behind me in line, a close personal friend of hers.   And 
 RW> to her husband.  Sometimes we have to play by the rules.
 RW> I keep my card in my changepurse in my pouch, along with 
 RW> my driver's  license -- that way I always have it at an 
 RW> event.  Much more convenient than  having to dig it out 
 RW> every weekend.
 RW> ...as for the times I've been required to show a membership card, it
 RW> makes   good sense.

lo'
   I had copies of mine laminated and affifed to the back side of my squire
belt.   The convienence makes up for the minor expence.
                                                 - Aindries


... Holy Ground, @N!  Remember what Ramirez taught you!
___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.10

 * Origin: Herald's Point * Steppes/Ansteorra * 214-699-0057 (1:124/4229)
From: Henry.Best@f120.n109.z1.fidonet.org (Henry Best)
Sender: Uucp@blkcat.UUCP
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Royal-picking
Date: Wed, 04 Nov 1992 18:23:04

Master Arval said:
 Mists held one Coronet Tourney which involved several competitions, 
>one of which was a normal tournament.  That is the Tourney which was won by a
>lady.  I don't recall the exact details; perhaps one of our Misties can
>remind us.  As far as I know, no other principality or kingdom has chosen
>royalty by anything other than a straight tournament.
 WH> That was won by Sir Maythen Gervais (then 'of Elfhaven').  Since she
 WH> won the combat parts, too (I think), it's somewhat moot that the otehr
 WH> parts were used.

 As I recall from her delightful letter on the subject in TI, replying to the  rumours that she had probably won some of the other sections and had also  fought, the other competitions included Heraldry, Chess, Costuming (not sure  in this one) and not only did she win 3 of the non-fighting areas, she won  the tournament.  I think the only thing she placed second in was Chess....

 -- Vashti


 * Origin: Herald's Point * Steppes/Ansteorra * 214-699-0057 (1:124/4229)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
From: SAUNDRSG@qucdn.queensu.ca (Graydon)
Subject: visible inauthenticity of archery
Organization: The Internet
Date: Thu, 5 Nov 1992 13:56:00 GMT

Fiacha:  handicaping isn't going to work.  Please see previous (or
at least longer) posting from me on things that I think *will*
work.

Also note that I'd much rather people shot than didn't.

T. Archer has some things to say about safety, affordability, and
convienence.  While I would not advocate insisting people use
natural fiber bowstrings, none of those criteria involve reasons
to *ban* the things.  (The Pennsic archery rules explicitly forbid
natural fiber strings.)

The *entire world* used natural fiber strings up until 1960 or
so; the old guys who teach archery coaching courses still remember
how to make linen strings.  (Guess how I found out the strand length
for a flemish splice string for a recurve?)  They are annoying, because
linen strectches and contracts with humidity, phase of the moon, amount
of shooting, and whim of the dead plant spirits, but they are *not*
unsafe.  If anyone knows where this belief started, I would really like
to hear about it.

A reel of linen, sufficent to make me 3 bowstrings, costs a bit less
than 10 $Cdn from a cobbler's supply house; beeswax and rosin sufficent
for a *lot* of strings costs another 10 $Cdn or so.  Commerical strings
cost a bit more than 10 $Cdn the each.   Flemish splice strings are
easy and fun to make; the time involved is small (second string took
me less than an hour).  So there is a rough parity of cost.

Convienence is a mostly subjective issue; my driving goal with
archery is to put a helm on a post, walk 80 to 100 paces away,
and put a hole in the helm, using as close to period equipment
as I can get.   By my lights, using Dacron strings is *inconvient*
because it detracts from that goal.  It also becomes neccessary
to serve a Dacron string up way thick to make it fit self nocks,
also an inconvience.  Of course, if you want to shoot at Pennsic,
you haven't any choice.

So, by the Frost on Uller's Beard, natural fiber strings are banned
because... the colours are tacky?  some one idiot made a bad one
in the Midreal 15 years ago?  no one has *tried*?  come on, someone
fess up!


Graydon
From: vader@meryl.csd.uu.se (]ke Eldberg)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: Help: Request for Address Info in Norway
Date: 7 Nov 92 01:18:11
Organization: University of Uppsala, Sweden
NNTP-Posting-Host: meryl.csd.uu.se
In-reply-to: cassie@worf.nas.nasa.gov's message of Fri, 6 Nov 92 19:16:39 GMT

Euriol of Lothian asks:

>My lord is looking for the address for the Curator of the University
>Museum of National Antiquities in Norway or the Viking Ship Hall, Bygdoy
>near Oslo, Norway.

I have a letter from them, it is about 10 years old so things
may have changed -- but the address in the letterhead is:

University Museum of National Antiquities
Viking Ship Museum
Frederiks Gate 2
Oslo 1
Norway
 
phone (02) 41 63 00

Good luck!
William
From: powels@rpi.EDU
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Visible inauthenticity of archary
Date: 5 Nov 92 16:38:54 GMT
Article-I.D.: client.9211051638.AA14417
Organization: The Internet

> From: "T. Archer" <ARCHER@utkvm1.utk.edu>

> Naaahhhh....
>
>Historical accuracy is FAR more important than either safety, affordability,
>or, God forbid, personal convenience.

	I hope this comment was ment sarcasticaly because I'd like to believe
that no sane person would wish an unsafe weapon on anyone except his worst
enemy. I don't shoot very often. I'm just a heavy weapons combatant, but I
still like to cook and sew and practice heraldrd and dance and sometimes
shoot. As a student I find it very difficult to muster enough money to
supply my habbit of armor building and the haphazard conglomeration of
metal, plastic and leather that I wear must embaras those fighters who
dress in hand polished suits of reconstructed maximilian field plate.
And yet I've NEVER had anyone suggest that I should be penalized in combat
for my choice of armor or that I should wear something that wasn't safe
(like an open face helm) just because it's period.
	I'd hate to think that the people who were in charge of archary
standards would set up a scoring system such that they and their own little
cliquish group's weapons were weighted unfairly against anyone elses. If
people REALLY want a more structured and more rigid environment in which
to practice mideval archary, there ARE splinter groups and outside society
organizations (like the english longbow society) which enforce much higher
standards. However I don't like the idea of black tie at dinner manditory
type groups and I would never personaly give up all the other interesting
almost authentic activities of the society so I could be snobish and elietest
about my chosen hobby. Heavy weapons combat is risky enough without limiting
ourselves to historical but unsafe equipment.
	If you want to shoot authentic bows, go right ahead, but stop
wimpering that some novice with a high tech bow bested your score. You're
the only person who knows or realy cares what your score is. Start striving
for PERSONAL best scores or playfully compete with your friends who have
similar weapons. I saw a 10 year old girl (aprox.) competing in the archary
events at pensic. I'd realy hat to see what would happen to her face if a 
truely authentic bowstring snaped while drawn.
	Please take your authentic, unsafe, unaffordable and inconvenient
hobbies elsewhere.

***************************************************************************
Sorry for any and all spelling mistakes/typos. I speek fortran better than
english  :)
***************************************************************************
From: banshee@cats.ucsc.edu (Wailer at the Gates of Dawn)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: Renn Faire overlap
Date: 10 Nov 1992 00:34:31 GMT
Organization: University of California, Santa Cruz
NNTP-Posting-Host: am.ucsc.edu


urcat@mcl.ucsb.edu (Eilidh Swan) writes:
>Hopefully this was just one account.  *shrug*  I still had fun there...
>but a tourney is ever so much more friendly!!!!!  People seem less 
>stand-offish in SCA (a sentiment mentioned on the Rialto lately) and 
>are very willing to include the stranger in their midst.  For some of 
>the folk at Faire, it's just a weekend job.  I suppose that's their loss.

Fie to the weekend job!  The Twilziewoppers of Northern CA Faire live to
drink, bellow, scrabble in the dirt, and beat off almost anyone!  

-- 
The Wailer at the Gates of Dawn              | banshee@cats.UCSC.EDU       |
Just who ARE you calling a FROOFROO Head?    |                             |
DoD#0667  "Just a friend of the beast."      | banshee@ucscb.UCSC.EDU      |
2,3,5,7,13,17,19,31,61,89,107,127,521,607....| banshee@ucscb.BITNET        |
From: bwilson@eng.auburn.edu (Brian Scott Wilson)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: Renn Faire overlap
Date: 12 Nov 92 17:04:38 GMT
Article-I.D.: news.1992Nov12.170438.29557
Reply-To: bwilson@eng.auburn.edu
Organization: Auburn University Engineering


If there is anyone out there who can explain the various combat systems
from the different groups, I for one would love to hear about them.

One question in particular, do the marklanders wear helmets? I know that
some of these LARPs don't have them and was wondering.

Sir Brian
Princeps Meridies
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
From: mittle@watson.ibm.com (Josh Mittleman)
Subject: Re: Group activity
Date: Fri, 06 Nov 1992 20:09:43 GMT
Disclaimer: This posting represents the poster's views, not necessarily those of IBM
Organization: IBM T.J. Watson Research Center

Greetings from Arval!

Gwenllian wrote about the idea of requiring groups to hold published
events: 

> The advantage that I see is that we've made sure that they are playing
> the game, and to me, that's part of the definition of an SCA group.

Tibor wrote:

> ...a rule that can be so easily circumvented, and which is a thin excuse,
> and which would hardly ever apply, isn't worth having.

I think a more important question is whether holding a published event is
fundamental to "playing the game".  Is there something anything wrong with
a branch where the members want no organized activities other than local
workshops, classes, and revels?  Evidently, some people think there is; I
would very much like to understand why.  I asked the same question of
Duchess Sedalia, the Eastern seneschal, who has a similar requirement in
her official policies.  Her answer, as I understood it, was that the
kingdom expends a certain amount of its resources supporting each branch,
and therefore the branch owes something back to the kingdom.  Her belief,
apparently, is that a published event is the measure of the branch's
payback.  I found that answer unsatisfying, because it basically begs the
question: Why should contribution to the kingdom be measured by published
events?

I welcome any ideas on this subject.

===========================================================================
Arval Benicoeur                                       mittle@watson.ibm.com
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca