HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: tucker@shiva.edsg.hac.com (George Tucker)
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
Subject: Re: Stuff Sacks or No Fit Like a Tight Fit
Date: 19 Dec 92 01:43:25 GMT
Reply-To: tucker@shiva.UUCP (George Tucker)
Organization: Hughes Aircraft Co., El Segundo, CA

In article <168C1F233.IJIM@vm1.spcs.umn.edu> IJIM@vm1.spcs.umn.edu (Jim Colten) writes:
> 
>I place the plastic bag inside the suff sack and stuff my sleeping bag into
>the two layered bag.  Then I gather up the excess plastic in one hand (not
>tight) and push down to expel as much air as possible (knees help). Twist
>the gathered plastic several times and tuck it down between itself and the
>stuff sack and close your stuff sack.  With 15 lbs of atmospheric pressure
>on each square inch, it stays nicely compressed.

Nice trick when you are going downhill, but usually you have less space
when you are climbing.  Unless, of course, you can do this in a vacuum
chamber.

	 George Tucker        tucker@shiva.hac.com
	Signature line awaiting FDA approval.

Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
From: bowen@cs.Buffalo.EDU (Devon E Bowen)
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
Subject: Re: reheatable handwarmers
Date: 16 Dec 92 19:55:59 GMT
Organization: State University of New York at Buffalo/Comp Sci
Originator: bowen@mira.cs.buffalo.edu


In article <1gnud6INNr3g@moe.ksu.ksu.edu>, diverson@phys.ksu.edu (David Iverson) writes:
> I've seen all these handwarming products and the disposable kind hold no
> interest for me from an ecological and weight minimization point of view. 
> But I'm really curious about these packs that you throw in boiling water to
> recharge and then they presumably store the energy until you decide to
> release it.
> 
> some questions:

I'd like to add a question to the list... Does anyone know of a supplier
for good quality reusable warmers? A friend of mine bought one at an army
surplus store but has found it pretty much useless because it sets itself
off just by dropping in a few inches onto a table. Since his main interest
was for caving (where it would get knocked around quite a bit) it obviously
isn't very useful. But if we could get some that would be a little more
robust, we'd rather use those for environmental reasons.

Devon
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
From: pjones@asl.slb.com
Subject: FAQ
Reply-To: pjones@asl.slb.com
Organization: Schlumberger/Anadrill Sugar Land, TX
Date: Wed, 16 Dec 92 21:04:21 GMT

Could someone please send me the FAQ for this newsgroup.  I cannot locate it.
Please send it to:
   pjones@asl.sinet.slb.com  AND
   pjones@asl.slb.com

Our network is undergoing some changes and one of these will work.

Thanks in advance,
Phil Jones
From: IJIM@vm1.spcs.umn.edu (Jim Colten)
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
Subject: Re: Stuff Sacks or No Fit Like a Tight Fit
Date: 18 Dec 92 23:13:19 GMT
Organization: CIS at U of MN

In article <1992Dec16.201144.7826@ra.msstate.edu>
dnewcomb@whale.st.usm.edu (Donald R. Newcomb) writes:
 
>
>After getting my sleeping bag wet ....
>   ...  I got a nice OR brand #2 sack. Did I ever figure it close! It
>is all I can do to cram my Sierra Designs bag in far enough to be able
>to get a little overlap between the flap and draw closure. ...
 
Many stores (REI does) sell stuff sack liners, heavy duty plastic bags
that are a little larger than the average sleeping bag stuff sack.  Some
fishing bait stores offer minnows in 'oxygen bags' which are essentially
the same kind of bag.  The key is to get a *STURDY* plastic bag quite a bit
too long for your stuff sack.
 
I place the plastic bag inside the suff sack and stuff my sleeping bag into
the two layered bag.  Then I gather up the excess plastic in one hand (not
tight) and push down to expel as much air as possible (knees help). Twist
the gathered plastic several times and tuck it down between itself and the
stuff sack and close your stuff sack.  With 15 lbs of atmospheric pressure
on each square inch, it stays nicely compressed.
 
A few variations I have heard about involve using a little shock cord to
keep the plastic closed or using three sacks, a nylon inside of plastic inside
of nylon, to better avoid punctures.
 
Duct tape handles field repair of punctures.
 
A compression sack might do a little better job of compression but at
$20.00 ....
 
Jim Colten
From: craigc@hotcity.COM (Craig Cutright)
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
Subject: Re: Asolo Hiking Boots
Date: 15 Dec 92 08:38:57 PST
Organization: BBS

In article <1992Dec11.184831.2512@IRO.UMontreal.CA>, fauvel@IRO.UMontreal.CA
(Sylvain Fauvel) writes:
>In article <1992Dec10.172950.26695@slcs.slb.com> pjones@asl.slb.com writes:
>>Does anybody have any experience with Asolo hiking boots,  in
>>particular the AFX 530?  It is a medium weight boot with full
>>leather uppers and it retails for about $135.  Any comments
>>about any Asolo hiking boots will be appreciated.
>>
>>Phil Jones
>>pjones@asl.sinet.slb.com
>
>
>       I have a pair of Asolo Yukon, very heavy boots, top quality.
>    The cost is high ($260 Can. $) but the quality is good.  I've
>    been told that all ASOLO BOOTS ARE NARROW and mine are.  I like that.
>    With wide boots, my feet tend to slide.  I already lost some toe nails
>    because of that.  I don't know the AFX 530 though.  Hope this helps.
>
>                                                       Sylvain Fauvel
I have been wearing a pair of Asolo Voyageurs for the last 2 years and havent
had a single problem yet.  Although I pretty much cooked them over the summer I
decided I couldnt afford to buy a new pair for a trip I took to Nepal last
October.  To say the least, they are FINISHED, but Im going to try and have
them resoled anyways because I like them so much (and I still cant afford a new
pair of boots!).  The older Asolos did run narrow but I think they have opened
them up a bit (making it hard for me to fit into since I have narrow feet)
providing a more comfortable fit for people with wider feet.  Whne it comes
down to buying your boot, buy something that fits (if the shoe fits wear it?)
your feet well not something your hear is a good product (although that is
important as well).  Good luck!
 
Craig Cutright
CraiC@Hotcity.com
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
From: pnsf01dw@UMASSD.EDU (Dennis J. Wilkinson)
Subject: Re: Appalachin Trail
Reply-To: pnsf01dw@UMASSD.EDU
Organization: UMASS DARTMOUTH, NO. DARTMOUTH, MA.
Date: Wed, 16 Dec 1992 14:49:13 GMT

In article <1992Dec16.024126.6074@galileo.cc.rochester.edu>, jwas_ss@uhura.cc.rochester.edu (Jason Wasson) writes:
>
>I too, am interested in Hiking the trail this summer and would like some
>info.  I was planning on taking a bus to the trail from Rochester, NY. Does
>anyone know off hand if there are any buses that go right to the trail or
>pretty close to it or towns that are close to the trail?
>

I don't know about buses from Rochester, but the trail passes through New York
State closest to the towns of Arden (tiny), Bear Mountain/Fort Montgomery (near
West Point)... that general area, southern part of the state.

On weekends, you could always take the Harlem line of the NYC subway out to
Appalachian Trail Station to get to the trail... 

The ATC maintains good information... anyone hiking on the trail for any length
of time should probably invest in the Thru-Hikers Handbook... loads of info
regarding buses, P.O.'s, hostels/hotels, etc.

Just some info from a happy thru-hiker...


-- Dennis (Meschatamen, a div. of the Falling Rock Patrol, AT92)
----------------------------------------------------
Dennis J. Wilkinson, II  (pnsf01dw@umassd.edu)
University of Massachusetts Dartmouth - Design/CS Project

The opinions reflected in this post are MINE!!!! ALL MINE!!!!!
From: dyurman@igc.apc.org (Dan Yurman)
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
Subject: Re: Cold feet
Date: 16 Dec 92 14:55:00 GMT
Nf-ID: #R:1992Dec14.170824.795@hls.com:2004345743:cdp:1449600056:000:734
Nf-From: cdp.UUCP!dyurman    Dec 16 06:55:00 1992


The solution to cold feet, even with sleeping bag is in several
parts.

(1) change your socks.  Make sure you have clean, dry socks on,
preferably a wick liner and the usual over sock.

(2) wear a hat.  If the brain thinks its cold it re-routes blood
supply from the extremities to the core and especially the head.
A simple wool cap will reduce a lot of heat loss and your feet,
and hands, will warm up.

A simple rule of thumb, er toes, is that if you want your feet
and hands to warm up, put on a hat.

--------------------------------------------------------
Dan Yurman dyurman@igc.apc.org  dyurman%igc.org@stanford
PO Box 1569 Idaho Falls ID 83403 USA 112W01 43N28 -7 GMT
Chance favors only the prepared mind   --  Louis Pasteur
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
From: vsh@etnibsd.uucp (Steve Harris)
Subject: Re: East Vail Chutes Avalanche Death
Organization: Eaton Corp, Semiconductor Equipment Div., Beverly, MA
Date: Thu, 17 Dec 1992 22:57:23 GMT

In article <10970@vice.ICO.TEK.COM> hall@vice.ICO.TEK.COM (Hal F Lillywhite) writes:
>In article <1950071@hpgrla.gr.hp.com> jonw@hpgrla.gr.hp.com (Jon Wade) writes:
>>
>>  [ Reports hearing that "friend" failed to notify authorities about skier
>>    caught in avalanche ]
>>
>  [ Hypothesizes that "friend" was in emotional shock ]
>

Whatever the truth, I expect the "friend" will be suffering greatly as a
result of this experience.  I would not want to be in his shoes.

-- 
... Steve Harris - Eaton Corp. - Beverly, MA - vsh%etnibsd@uunet.uu.net
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
From: sh666@selway.umt.edu (Dave)
Subject: Re: Asolo Hiking Boots
Organization: University of Montana
Date: Fri, 11 Dec 1992 23:05:06 GMT

I have been using a pair of Asolo Lite-Flexs' for about two years
now.  I have put many, many, many trail miles on them and they
have held up superb.  I know this isn't the boot that you were asking
about, but if Asolo makes all their boots like they made mine then
I highly reccomend them.
							Dave
From: reimer@src.dec.com (Dean Reimer)
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
Subject: Re: Cold feet
Date: 16 Dec 92 21:43:19 GMT
Organization: DEC Systems Research Center

In article <1992Dec16.000019.876@nimbus.com>, jimiii@nimbus.com (Jim Warford) writes:
|> In article <1992Dec14.170824.795@hls.com> ravi@hls.com writes:

|> a stocking hat on, your body will lose 50% of its heat through your
|> head, probably even a higher percentage when the rest of the body is
|> well insulated by a sleeping bag.



As the oldtimers always say, "If your feet are cold, put a hat on."
From: sml@plato.ds.boeing.com (Stuart Lewis)
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
Subject: Re: HOLLOW POINTS in the backcountry
Date: 19 Dec 92 03:09:38 GMT
Article-I.D.: plato.BzHKs3.Bo6
Organization: Boeing Defense & Space Group

In article <1992Dec18.181655.22197@dsd.es.com> (Brent "Woody" Moss) writes:
>
>
>I wonder what would happen if I took some poison of some sort
>and put it in the hollow point of a bullet and then sealed the 
>end with wax. That way if I hit some small animal non leathaly, say 
>in the leg, It would probably die eventually. My tracking skills
>would then be honed as a result of the search.   I was thinking...

No you weren't.  But I was thinking that it's a little late for
Halloween, and a little early for April Fools.  I guess my calander
must be screwed up.

Stuart Lewis
sml@plato.ds.boeing.com
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry,rec.skiing,rec.climbing
From: blanchad@rintintin.Colorado.EDU (BLANCHARD DAVID OWEN)
Subject: Re: Has anyone ever saved anyone wearing an avalanche beacon?
Organization: University of Colorado, Boulder
Date: Tue, 15 Dec 1992 23:26:38 GMT

In article <1992Dec15.081220.26080@watson.ibm.com> eru@titlis.zurich.ibm.com 
(Erich Ruetsche) writes:

>A second problem is the search if multiple persons and beacons must be found.
>The superposition of the signals make the search really difficult.

Erich brings up an issue that I have not thought about very much.  I certainly
have never done any field practice with more than one beacon operating.

Maybe it is time to go practice again.

David Blanchard

-- 
+--------------------------------------------------------------------------+
| David O. Blanchard	Boulder, Colorado	dob@nssl.erl.gov           |
+--------------------------------------------------------------------------+
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry,rec.skiing,rec.climbing
From: glenb@sr.hp.com (Glen Baker)
Subject: Re: Avalanche Information
Date: Thu, 17 Dec 1992 17:09:25 GMT
Organization: Fly GlenAir
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1.4 PL6]

Eugene N. Miya (eugene@wilbur.nas.nasa.gov) wrote:

> Well, I suggest to you to up the ante in training and do what dog trainers
> do, use a body.  Yours or a partners.

 I was wondering when this was going to be suggested. It is indeed an 
 interesting exercise. I've been in the hole many times for dog training
 purposes. Dogs are amazingly fast. However I think I'd stop short of
 burying a person for beacon practice...seems like a lot of work for 
 no return on investment.

 ..glen
From: dth2@cunixb.cc.columbia.edu (David T Ho)
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
Subject: Fleece jacket recommendation
Date: 20 Dec 92 18:10:28 GMT
Reply-To: dth2@cunixb.cc.columbia.edu (David T Ho)
Organization: Columbia University

I would like to purchase a fleece jacket to zip into my North Face
shell.  I was considering between North Face and Patagoina.  (both
will zip into my shell) Anyone have any suggestions?  Thanks.


--
David T. Ho                       
dth2@cunixb.cc.columbia.edu
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
From: dnewcomb@whale.st.usm.edu (Donald R. Newcomb)
Subject: Re: reheatable handwarmers
Organization: University of Southern Mississippi
Date: Thu, 17 Dec 1992 03:05:15 GMT

In article <BzDI7J.8MF@usenet.ucs.indiana.edu> amirza@bronze.ucs.indiana.edu (Anmar Caves) writes:
>-------------------------------------------------------------------------
> THERMAL COMPARISON OF ACETATE AND IRON "HEAT PACKS"
> 
> by Rane_Curl@um.cc.umich.edu
> 
> INTRODUCTION
> 
>     The following is a largely theoretical analysis of the
> thermal properties of two type of "heat packs", referred to
> hereafter as the "Acetate" pack, and the "Iron" pack. It is hoped
> that this information, combined with practical experience in
> their uses, will provide bases for choosing the most appropriate
> device for providing heat to patients in a cave rescue situation.

Fantasic post. The only thing that I can think to add  is that I
know SCUBA divers who put large Acetate warmers inside their
wet suits. When they start getting cold, they slap the warmers
to create heat and prevent hypothermia. Of course, in the water
weight isn't that important.
-- 

Donald R. Newcomb                * Life only admits two states: 
dnewcomb@whale.st.usm.edu        * growing and dying. So what,
newcomb@usmcp6.bitnet            * if I've put on a little weight?
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
From: daf@riviera.camb.inmet.com (Tony Flanders)
Subject: Re: Scotch-Guard as Water Repellent?
Organization: Intermetrics Inc.
Date: Sat, 12 Dec 1992 13:51:44 GMT

In article <168B85EE6.M18709@mwvm.mitre.org> M18709@mwvm.mitre.org writes:

> I have a pair of light hiking boots (swade and nylon) and I
> am having trouble finding a suitable water repellent.  I have
> tried a few commercial weather "proofing" products that
> spray-on, but I have not had much success.  It seems even
> when I am just walking through wet grass, my feet eventually
> get wet.

The bottom line is that this kind of boot doesn't even pretend to be
waterproof, and nothing you can do will make it so.  I endorse the
suggestion of using baggies inside your boots that many other people
have made.  For best effects, you need two layers of baggy -- one inside
and one outside your socks.  The high-tech equivalent of baggies are
called "vapor-barrier socks"; I have no idea whether they work better
or worse, but I am sure they are more expensive.

If you really want to keep your feet dry, there's always rubber boots,
both the kind that are entire boots and rubbers that slip on over your
shoes.  I suspect that the latter would fall apart pretty quickly, but
while they last they are genuinely waterproof -- none of this water-repellent
nonsense.

By the way, you shouldn't say "just walking through wet grass."  Wet grass
is the most severe test of waterproofness that regular summer hikers are
likely to encounter; your boots are constantly being wet and wet again.
One hour in wet grass is like a day in a downpour on a dry trail.  The
only things worse are walking through swamps or deep slush.

    - Tony Flanders
	daf@inmet.camb.inmet.com
From: greg@antizen.EBay.Sun.COM
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
Subject: Re: First Aid Liability
Date: 17 Dec 1992 22:06:47 GMT
Organization: Sun Microsystems, Inc.
Distribution: world
Reply-To: greg@antizen.EBay.Sun.COM
NNTP-Posting-Host: antizen.ebay.sun.com

In article 6CB@undergrad.math.waterloo.edu, sdfinuca@cayley.uwaterloo.ca (Sean Finucane) writes:
> I was planning to take standard St. John's First Aid and also CPR next
> year and was wondering, as the Heading says, about liability.
> 
> When I was young (:-) I had both of these as well as Life-Guarding 
> qualifications (which only got used twice, thank God) and I was told
> that liability wasn't an issue at my level.  A friend, however, just
> suggested that even with just standard first aid, if you see a 
> "situation" and do not assist, or if you do assist and either make a mistake
> or just can't do anything, you can be sued or charged or other nasty things.
> (She took a similar course a couple of years back)
> 
> I wouldn't go for the training if I didn't plan to use it when necessary,
> but her concerns have got me worried.  Should I take the courses and
> flunk the exam?  It all seems stupid and cruel and it probably keeps
> a lot of lawyers in business, but I'd like to know the facts.
> 
> I'd be especially interested in this from a Canadian point of view,
> but American replies would be of interest as well.
> 
> If these things aren't a problem at my level, is there a level where
> it is a concern.  I'd like some day to take an EMT course.  Does it
> make a difference?
> 
> Thanx,
> Citizen of the World.


Just a note to add to Bob Haar's post, the primary point of the good
samaritan law is whether or not you have a duty to act. First Aiders
do not have a duty to act. However, once you decide to perform first
aid you must follow some basic rules which Bob has outlined.

Also, you must not abandon your patient which includes leaving them
in the care of someone less trained than yourself.

The legal climate in California is particularly paranoid despite the
almost total lack of legal successful litigation against first-responding
personnel. 

As a last comment it's important (at least in America) to remember that
anyone can sue you for anything at anytime. There have been cases of 
CPR survivors trying to sue for broken ribs, but they have quickly 
been thrown out of court (or so the stories say). Lawyers generally
don't want to take cases that won't pay. The trend in this state is
to look for a deep pocket. For example, a man falls down on a twisty
mountainous highway. You stop and render first aid but despite your
best efforts he becomes paralyzed.

His lawyer will be looking to sue the County, State or City or maybe
even the agency that's repsonsible for road-upkeep (or all of the above).

It was recognized a long time ago that if first-aiders or well-meaning
citizens could be sued, no one would ever stop to help.

Greg


Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
From: pecampbe@mtu.edu (Paul Campbell)
Subject: Re: GPS, PC or non-PC?
Organization: Michigan Technological University
Date: Sun, 20 Dec 1992 04:06:50 GMT

In article <1992Dec18.222018.700@guinness.idbsu.edu> jahn@guinness.idbsu.edu writes:
>Hey, I just came across an article in the Samhain 1992 edition
>of the Earth First! Journal that I thought could liven up the
>b.c. discussions beyond the issue of waterproofing tent bottoms.
>

[details deleted]

>To quote: "Navstar is a targeting system.  Receivers are attached to
>cruise missiles, tanks, and Jeeps.  They help guide first-strike
>missiles to their targets, and infantry across unfamiliar terrain."

You can't use GPS for missiles. This has been discussed numerous
times before with the GPS people. Take it up with them.

They don't like to use GPS in tanks a whole lot (rather stick with
dead reckoning) because the antenna makes it easier to spot. At least
this is the reasoning that a guy from Alliantech Systems (used to be
Honeywell's military departments) claimed.
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry,rec.travel
From: carter_r@synapse.bms.com (Richard B. Carter)
Subject: Re: holiday travel around Ohio
Organization: Bristol-Myers Squibb PRI
Distribution: usa
Date: Thu, 17 Dec 1992 20:42:11 GMT

Let's see within 8 hours of Ohio there's,  uh,,...  hummm,... well er, uh, ..
Well, if you go west, well uh, maybe drive for uh,.. 24hrs or so... >) >)

When I used to live in Ohio, I told my friends that I was centrally located - 
only 15 hours drive from anywhere interesting.

Try Red River Gorge in Northern Kentucky, all my friends raved about it and I
always meant to go there.
-- 
*******************************************************************************
R.B. Carter                                          Internet: Carter_R@bms.com
From: hill@madrone.eecs.ucdavis.edu (Rich Hill)
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
Subject: Donner Pass to Squaw Valley (Skiing)
Date: 17 Dec 92 00:31:14 GMT
Distribution: ca
Organization: U.C. Davis - Department of Electrical Engineering and Computer Science

Has anyone ever skied this route?  The trail starts at Lake Mary near Donner
Pass and essentially follows the Pacific Crest Trail (with a few minor
deviations) all the way to Squaw Valley.  Distance is approx. 12 miles.
Anybody know any tips, pitfalls, etc. that pertain to this route?  Sounds
like a nice ski, although parts look steep just from the topo map.  I'm 
not really after near-vertical, telemark-or-die type stuff, just a moderately
long tour that will be relatively challenging.  Those of us involved do not
have metal-edged skiis and can telemark but would not like to have to depend
on it.  

Any advice would be much appreciated.

Thanks,

Rich Hill
hill@eecs.ucdavis.edu

Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
From: "Eric Jeschke" <jeschke@moose.cs.indiana.edu>
Subject: Re: Stuff Sacks or No Fit Like a Tight Fit
Organization: Computer Science, Indiana University
Date: Thu, 17 Dec 1992 08:57:35 -0500

dnewcomb@whale.st.usm.edu (Donald R. Newcomb) writes:
[stuff deleted]
:take more room to stuff. Are there any secret tricks to get a down
:bag to pack an inch or two farther down? Thanks,
:-- 

Get (or make) a compression sack.  Lowe makes a couple of good ones in
different sizes (they run about $20).  Then get a roll of industrial
strength trash bags (~4 mils).  Open one inside the compression sack,
stuff your down bag, twist it loosely closed, and compress.  Works
wonders.

These trash bags are tough.  I throw a couple of extras in the bottom
of my pack for emergency ponchos, vapor barriers or what have you.
I use one as a rain cover for my pack, it has much better coverage
than the coated nylon one they sell as an "accessory" item.  I've used
the same 4 mil trash bags for weeks of continuous use before wearing
them out.

-- 
Eric Jeschke                      |          Indiana University
jeschke@cs.indiana.edu            |     Computer Science Department
From: rhm@hpfcso.FC.HP.COM (Bob Miller)
Date: Thu, 17 Dec 1992 21:11:15 GMT
Subject: Re: Stuff Sacks or No Fit Like a Tight Fit
Organization: Hewlett-Packard, Fort Collins, CO, USA
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry

I've always wished Tupperware made a 12" diameter X 18" high canister that
would be perfect for sleeping bags on an external-frame pack. The waterproof
bags are still subject to abrasion and puncture, particularly in desert 
enviornments (oops, set my pack down on a prickly pear!), and desert canyon
expeditions can occasionally call for serious wading (slip....SPLASH!!) or
even *swimming*.

With another TW canister storing the food inside, I could reliably *float*
my pack through the plunge pools...

I know I'd be carrying an extra pound of plastic, but a canoe bag is pretty
heavy too.

And it's not cactus-proof...

Bob (desert rat) Miller
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry