HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: hrubin@pop.stat.purdue.edu (Herman Rubin)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
Subject: Re: Valid Interpretation Flamefest (sigh!)
Date: 8 Apr 92 20:36:47 GMT
Article-I.D.: mentor.44491
Organization: Purdue University Statistics Department

In article <1992Apr7.224651.27763@midway.uchicago.edu> rivk@midway.uchicago.edu writes:
>In article <FAIGIN.92Apr6202343@soldan.aero.org> faigin@aero.org (Daniel P. Faigin) writes:

			.....................

>It wasn't even the resolution I was thinking of, though I think that's
>kind of dumb too; it was the parents who care enough to raise their
>kid Jewish but have some weird aversion to a conversion ceremony.

>>In any case, I really wish people would read the decision whenever I post it
>>(which I seem to do every few months -- Rob, we really should put this in the
>>FAQ :-)). 

The Reform procedure (details omitted) is not much different from the one
the Orthodox allow, which allows the father to convert the child before the
age of 3, with the conversion affirmed upon Jewish adulthood by the child.
The Reform requirements are close to those of a conversion, anyway, and the
Orthodox will not recognize a Reform conversion ceremony, in any case.

Since the Orthodox will only recognize conversions to Orthodox Judaism,
the details here are unimportant.
-- 
Herman Rubin, Dept. of Statistics, Purdue Univ., West Lafayette IN47907-1399
Phone: (317)494-6054
hrubin@pop.stat.purdue.edu (Internet, bitnet)  
{purdue,pur-ee}!pop.stat!hrubin(UUCP)
Organization: Masters student, Industrial Administration, Carnegie Mellon, Pittsburgh, PA
From: carroll@hercules.cis.udel.edu (Mark C. Carroll)
Subject: Re: Vegetarianism & Halacha (was Re: Following Sedar tradition)
Organization: University of Delaware, Newark
Distribution: na
Date: Mon, 6 Apr 1992 14:40:41 GMT

In article <1992Apr2.125151.12188@tudorct.com>, shdan@tudorct.com (Dan Shimoff) writes:
|> In article <1992Mar31.211841.19017@news.cs.brandeis.edu> kidorf@chaos.cs.brandeis.edu (Dan Kidorf) writes:
|> >
|> >This year, as every year, there will be a large, dead and cooked
|> >animal lying in the center of our table ready to be eaten
|> >as part of a traditional sedar.
|> >
|> >This difference this year is that I'm now vegetarian.
|> >
|> >Is there anything I should worry about with respect to Jewish law?
|> >I think simply skipping the meat would be a simple enough solution.
|> 
|> Well, in the Talmud it says Ain simcha ela bibasar -- (there is no joy without 
|> meat,  and a holiday like passover in a joyous holiday in religious law.  So
|> one might infer that you must have at least a little meat to be happy on 
|> the holiday (being happy is a Biblical commandment, even if you don't feel
|> happy).  Same can be said about wine, but you need to drink wine anyway.

I'm a vegetarian. The thought of eating meat does _not_ make me happy,
cannot make me happy, and will never make me happy. For me, there is
no possible joy in eating meat. The idea that I'd go and eat a hunk of
a dead animal, because it's impossible for me to be joyous without it
is simply stupid! - if I ate the animal, it would take all of the joy
out of the seder for me. 

The authors of the Talmud were brilliant, learned men. But they lived in
a society in which it was impossible to maintain your health as a vegetarian.
We don't live in that time any more, and those of us who have chosen to 
become vegetarians find absolutely no joy in eating meat, and are living
healthy, productive, happy lives without it. I find it absolutely insane to
believe that someone who lived 1000 years ago knows more than I do about
what will cause me to be happy.

	<MC>

-- 
|| Mark Craig Carroll: <MC>     ||"I live to see my fondest dreams realized,
|| Univ of Delaware, Dept of CIS|| Of living under the sights and sounds of
|| Grad Student/Labstaff Hacker || the gifted, Who gave so much to me"
|| carroll@udel.edu             ||   - _Feed_the_Fire_, Happy Rhodes
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
From: saal@cbnewsl.cb.att.com (samuel.saal)
Subject: Re: Pesach Shiur
Organization: NetNews Readers Anonymous
Date: Thu, 16 Apr 1992 16:02:59 GMT
Summary: where is the 10,000 from?
Keywords: CHABAD LUBAVITCH PESACH PASSOVER

In article <635@kesher.UUCP>, root@kesher.UUCP (Aaron_Schmiedel) writes:

>     The four-letter Hebrew word "karpas" when read backwards
> connotes that 600,000 Jews in Egypt (the Hebrew letter "samech" =
> 60, times 10,000) were forced to perform back-breaking labor (the
> other three Hebrew letters spell "perech"--hard work).

OK, I see the 60, but where does the 10,000 come from?
Organization: Masters student, Industrial Administration, Carnegie Mellon, Pittsburgh, PA
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish,talk.politics.misc
Date: Tue, 14 Apr 1992 01:57:55 -0400 
From: Sandy Bodzin <sb5i+@andrew.cmu.edu>
Subject: Re: Ross Perot
	<1992Apr13.132850.12235@hemlock.cray.com>

Russ Anderson writes:

>EDS makes sure that prospective employees know about the dress code
(suits, >short hair, no beards) and are willing to abide by that policy
before they are >hired (which,IMHO, is not a whole lot different than
making sure the >prospective employee is willing to program in COBOL, if
that is what the job >requires).

Legally there is a concept of Bona Fide Occupational Qualification that
states that a prospective employee must be hired based on qualifications
that directly relate to his/her ability to do the job.  Most often
BFOQ's are cited as defenses in discrimination suits.  In this case, it
is quite clear that the willingness to program in COBOL could be a BFOQ
when hiring a programmer.  When would a clean shaven face be a BFOQ? 
When hiring a model for razor ads.  It's  difficult to show that a clean
shaven face is a qualification for most jobs in the office.

Sandy
From: khan@twg.com (Sharaaz K. Khan)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
Subject: RE: Messianic ......
Date: 13 Apr 92 19:30:50 GMT
Organization: The Wollongong Group, Palo Alto, CA




In the article about the Messiah, jem@dateum.nyo.dec.com writes:

>Invariably, messianism has a built-in  danger.  A   false messiah
>can    lead    to  disappointment,  depression, even derangement.
>When Shabbetai Zevi, hailed even by  major  Jewish   scholars  as
>the  messiah,  converted  to  Islam in 1666, it rocked the Jewish
>people to its foundation. Many went mad,  twisting  Judaism  into
>a religion  which suddenly endorsed going to the depths of impur-
>ity in order to change the world.

Could you please elaborate on this.  Do you mean that people had started
accepting this person still as the Messiah, even though he had accepted
Islam?  Or is it that they had started endorsing impure things to change
the world?  If the latter, kindly elaborate on the definition of impure
things as well as it's reference in this context.

>Shabbat Shalom
>jem@datum.nyo.dec.com    

Sharaaz Khan
khan@twg.com
From: david.lloyd-jones@rose.com (david lloyd-jones)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
Subject: meat at pesach
Date: 15 Apr 92 16:54:49 GMT
Organization: Rose Media Inc, Toronto, Ontario.
X-Gated-By: Usenet <==> RoseMail Gateway (v1.2)


Date Entered: 04-14-92 10:50
Replying to: unterspa@novavax.UUCP (Diane Unterspan)
U(>Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
U(>Subject: meat at pesach

U(>How do ashkenazic jews reconcile putting walnuts in their harosetz
U(>while they forbid peanuts?

The walnut is a nut.  The peanut is a legume.

Remember Walter Mondale's explanation for how he got chosen
Vice-President:  "Then Senator Jackson went down to Plains and said how
he's like to take a walk through the peanut trees..."

                           :-)

                                    -dlj.
---
   SLMR 2.0   Backup not found: (A)bort (R)etry (P)anic
   RM 1.60: Usenet: Rose Media - Hamilton (416) 575-5363
From: rivk@quads.uchicago.edu (nora gayle rivkis)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
Subject: Re: Homosexual Jews. A serious question.
Keywords: homosexual jews
Date: 6 Apr 92 03:49:00 GMT
Reply-To: rivk@midway.uchicago.edu
Organization: University of Chicago Computing Organizations

In article <1992Apr3.152611.22514@umbc3.umbc.edu> shimoff@umbc4.umbc.edu (Eliot Shimoff) writes:

>And "the community he loves best ...?"  If the community
>he loves  best of Orthodox, he will keep his homosexuality
>private.  If he makes it a public issue (and he must know
>the expected reaction of the Orthodox community), he cannot
>claim to "love it best."

What do you mean by "making it a public issue?" Do any of the
following qualify?

1) Working politically for protection from discrimination
and assault for homosexuals

2) Sharing a one-bedroom apartment with a member of their
own sex, and not curtailing their hospitality to the point
where nobody will ever see the inside of the apartment

3) Declining matchmaking offers on a consistent basis, even
past the age when people in Orthodox communities often get
nosy about why one is still unmarried and making no effort
to change the fact

4) Asking that people who are making nasty remarks about
homosexuality please stop it, that it's offensive (the 
same way, one hopes, that they would about any other form
of prejudicial or bigoted statements)

5) Refusing to lie when asked a direct question?

There are ways that fairly intelligent people who tend to
poke their noses into other people's business can find out
without someone "making an issue of it", Eliot.

>Eliot Shimoff                  

	-Nora

-- 
Oseh shalom b'imromav, hu ya'aseh shalom aleinu v'al kol yisrael.
From: faigin@aero.org (Daniel P. Faigin)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
Subject: Re: Valid Interpretation Flamefest (sigh!)
Date: 8 Apr 92 15:27:22 GMT
Article-I.D.: soldan.FAIGIN.92Apr8072722
	<1992Mar30.003653.21056@cs.cornell.edu> <1679@vaccine.UUCP>
	<1992Apr6.032705.25664@midway.uchicago.edu>
	<FAIGIN.92Apr6202343@soldan.aero.org> <1727@israel.nysernet.org>
Organization: The Aerospace Corporation, El Segundo, CA

On 8 Apr 92 07:58:00 GMT, warren@nysernet.org (Warren Burstein) said:
> I've wondered, and perhaps this is a good time to do it out loud, why
> it's called patrilineal descent.  

I think the decision has acquired this name because the committee that wrote
it had the name "Committee on Patrilineal Descent on the Status of Children of
Mixed Marriages" of the CCAR, whose analysis led to the conclusion "that the
same requirements must be applied to establish the status of the child of a
mixed marriage, regardless of whether the mother or the father is Jewish."

Again, I have the full decision available if people want it.

Daniel
--
[W]:The Aerospace Corp. M1/055 * POB 92957 * LA, CA 90009-2957 * 310/336-8228
[Email]:faigin@aerospace.aero.org              [Vmail]:310/336-5454 Box#13149
	  "You mean on top of everything else, this ship is rigged?"
	     King Ferdinand, of Spain to Columbus (Stan Freberg)
From: jgoldber@alchemy.chem.utoronto.ca (Joel Goldberg)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
Subject: Re: Jewish - Israeli names
Date: 14 Apr 92 14:55:17 GMT
Organization: University of Toronto Chemistry Department

In article <167C514E5B.HSUSA00@ricevm1.rice.edu> HSUSA00@ricevm1.rice.edu (Susarla, H. Krishna) writes:
>I'm writing a story which has, as one of its characters, a female Israeli-Jew.
>
>I was wondering if anyone can provide me with some suggested first and last
>names. Of course, such a list might be endless, but I would like to hear as
>many suggestions as possible.
>
>Reply in private if possible.
  Ah c'mon, this is one of my fondest memories of Israel:

  Midsummer. Darkness settles over Givat Chen in suburban Ness Ziona,
  and the temperature falls from stultifying to merely hot. On the
  street, a fourteen year old Sabra'it, disdaining modern technology,
  assembles her friends for a trip to the glidaria. Facing the apartment
  blocks she calls, "Orrrreeeeet, Efraaaaaat, Irrrrreeeeeet,
  Osnaaaaaat."

[Aside to Michael Shimshoni, turn east at the southern traffic
light (Ben Gurion) and continue to the end (Habanim.) There really
is a suburban N.Z.]
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
From: br042@cleveland.freenet.edu
Subject: Re: Partial Passover Product List
Organization: Migdal Torah - The Jewish Learning Center
Date: Thu, 9 Apr 92 02:14:36 -0400


In article <3460@moscom.UUCP> de@moscom.UUCP (David Esan) writes:
>In article <9204052258.AA03601@relay2.UU.NET> br042@cleveland.freenet.edu writes:
>>Toothpaste - PG (Crest & Gleem) Aim Aquafresh Close up Colgate Pearl Drops
>>Pepsodent all have No Chometz.
>
>First of all, thank you for the list.  Each list I see has one or two different
>products on it that a kosher for Pesach.  
>
>However, I should note that Kashrus magazine refuses to endorse *any* 
>toothpaste.  They say that sorbitol, used in toothpaste, can be chometz,
>and that chometz'dke sorbitol is available in the US, and we can't be 
>sure that this is not used in the toothpaste.
>
>This is, of course, just above an ad for ADWE toothpaste, which ADWE says
>is kosher for pesach.

I do not want to get into a flame fest,, but I can tell you that the info I
posted about toothpaste came from the only one who really knows about the
kashrus of P&G products... their Machshir.   No P&G has chometz this year,
as far as  I undersatnd.  (Please..... Dunchan Heins is NOT KP) 8-)


Avrohom Mordechai Alter    

alter@Freenet.cleveland.edu

   ----------------------------------------------------------------------   
  |                           !            !                             |
  |          The           *******      *******       Bringing           |    
  |     Migdal Torah        |   |========|   |     Jews & Judaism        |
  | Jewish Learning Center  |   |   The  |   |   Back Together Again     |
  |           _             |   | Jewish |   |            _              |
  |                         |   |Learning|   |                           |
  | Rabbi Avrohom M. Alter  |   | Center |   |   2726-28 West Pratt Ave  |
  |                         |   |========|   |     Chicago, IL. 60645    |
  |  Off:  (312) 465-7600  *******      *******                          |
  |  Fax:  (312) 465-4554     V            V     Home: (312) 338-6361    |
   ----------------------------------------------------------------------  


Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
From: romeo@fang.att.com (Romeo Gonzalez(660-3252))
Subject: Re: Help with Pesach Song
Organization: AT&T Tax Systems Development, Maitland FL
Date: Mon, 13 Apr 1992 17:38:51 GMT

From article <1992Apr11.100103.3161@rose.uucp>, by david.lloyd-jones@rose.uucp (david lloyd-jones):
> 
> Date Entered: 04-10-92 11:09
> I would appreciate it if anyone could help me with the following
> transcription from the Spanish/Ladino; could you post a corrected
> version, by E-mail or in public?  Thanks in advance.
> 
> Quen suspiensey entendiense
               ^^
  Quen suspiense y entendiense 
  Who would know and understand

>   Al avar el Dio criense
     ^^^
    Alavar el Dio criense
    Praise the G-d who created    ( This is probably 

> Qualo sonos uno, dos, tres, quatro, cinque, sesh, siete.
  What there are one, two, three, four, five, six, seven.
> 
> Siete dies con el shabbat
  Seven days with the shabbat
>  Sesh dies de la semane
   Six day of the week
> Cinquo livros de la ley
  Five book for the law
>  Quatro matros d'Israel
   Four mothers of Israel         
> Tres e nuestros patroson
  Tree are our patriarcs
>  Dos e Moshe y Aaron
   Two are Moshe and Aaron
> Uno es el Creador.
  One is the creator.
>  Uno es el Creador, baruch Hu, baruch Shemo.
   One is the creator, baruch Hu, baruch Shemo. 
> 
> I'd appreciate the English meaning of the second line (al avar...) which
> I have probably trashed above.  And I need it by Friday!

-- 
Romeo Gonzalez
romeo@fang.att.com
AT&T Orlando, FL
From: mgoller@uceng.UC.EDU (Michael Goller)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
Subject: Re: Spain Rescinds Expulsion of Jews After 500 Years.
Date: 9 Apr 92 00:39:42 GMT
Article-I.D.: uceng.1992Apr9.003942.11577
Organization: College of Engineering, University of Cincinnati


	I had heard that it was suspended in the mid 1800's
(or was that the inquisition?)  Any comments?

Mgoller
(...but you can call me the avenging seraph...)
From: saal@cbnewsl.cb.att.com (samuel.saal)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
Subject: Re: A Byte Of Torah I,XX The Seder
Summary: with the previous or the following?
Date: 16 Apr 92 16:14:19 GMT
Organization: NetNews Readers Anonymous

In article <92105.165945CFRQC@CUNYVM.BITNET>, Center for Return
<CFRQC@CUNYVM.BITNET> writes:

>  Next is UrChatz. This is washing the hands, but without a blessing. This is
> the next item in the Seder, because it is standard procedure for a person to
> wash his hands after making Kiddush (Rabbi Aaron of Koyadinov).

This explanation seems weak.  I thought standard practice (verified later
in this same article) was that we wash before Motzei - as opposed to
_after_ kiddush.

>                                                               However, we are
> not going to eat matzah (the unleavened bread) or the meal for a while. So then
> why must we wash? To explain this, we must look at the next item in the Seder.
> The next item is the Karpas, a vegetable (i.e. parsley). Chazal knew that we
> would not eat the meal immediately after Kiddush. Hence, to perk the curiousity
> of the kids

I can accept this one more readily.

>            (since the Seder is meant to educate the kids and all those who are
> unaware of the meaning of Passover), plus to insure that we do not starve (as
> the meal won't be served for a while), and to prepare our stomachs for the
> coming 15+ course meal, we have what is known as a Parperes Hapas, an
 
 ...

>  The standard way to start a festive holiday meal, is to wash and "break bread"
> (or matzah as is our case), hence Rachtza and Motzee-Matzah. It is interesting
> to note that there are two blessings that we make on the Matzah. The first is
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
From: slater@cs.uiuc.edu (Rob Slater)
Subject: Re: Jewish Students Assaulted
Organization: University of Illinois, Dept. of Comp. Sci., Urbana, IL
Date: Fri, 17 Apr 1992 01:22:10 GMT

Rudolph A. Habesch <RHABESC@auvm.american.edu> writes:

>It is interesting how Muslims/Arabs are considered anti-semetic
>whereas Arabs are definitely semites!!!

	And it is interesting that you could post such a stupid remark without
even consulting a dictionary!!!

From the Oxford English Dictionary:
  anti-Semitism (ntI'semItIz(&schwa.)m). [f.  ANTI- [1 ] 7 + SEMITISM. ]
  Theory, action, or practice directed against the Jews.  Hence anti-
  'Semite, one who is hostile or opposed to the Jews; anti-Se'mitic a.
    1881 Athenum 3 Sept. 305/2 The author, apparently an anti-Semite. 1881
  Athenum,  3 Sept. 305/2 Anti-Semitic literature is very prosperous in
  Germany. 1882 Athenum 11 Feb.  184/1 In these days of anti-Semitism.
  1935 Economist 24 Aug. 366/1 The Nazi Party stalwarts..have all been
  leading an anti-Semitic, anti-Catholic, anti-Protestant..crusade. 1941
  J. S. HUXLEY Uniqueness of Man ii. 50 Germanic nationalism on the one
  hand and anti-Semitism on the other.

The creator of the term, a Frenchman in the 1870s, wanted a scientific way
to describe irrational hate towards Jews.  At that time, the only semites
he knew of were Jews (clearly Jews are not "white" Europeans).  Hence the
poorly chosen term.

>I am not desputing that the assault on the jewish studentsis an
>act of ignorance and of violation of their rights and persons, I
>just wanted to draw attention to that point.

	Mazel Tov!  You are about the 50,000th person to have noticed this.
It doesn't change a thing.

--
 Rob Slater                                     | "When all else fails, try
 Choices/Tapestry -- Dept. of Computer Science  |  reading the directions!"
 University of Illinois, Urbana-Champaign       |    --Rob's guiding
 Internet: rslater@uiuc.edu                     |      philosophy
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
From: aryk@gpu.utcs.utoronto.ca (a.j.s. nusbacher)
Subject: Re: Vegetarianism & Halacha (was Re: Following Sedar tradition)
Organization: University of Toronto 
Date: Tue, 14 Apr 1992 23:10:29 GMT

Shlomo said that shaving with a blade is specifically forbidden by the Torah.

I am under the impression that shaving certain parts of the head is forbidden by the Torah, and that shaving the head (other than the "corners") etc. is forbid-
den in tractate Makot as resembling avodah zarah.

Aryk Nusbacher
aryk@gpu.utcs.utoronto.ca

__  __  ___ ___ __ __    __   _ _ _    ___ __ __    _   ___ ___ __ ___ __
  |   |   | | |  |  \     | " | | /      |  |   | \ |     |   |  |   |  |
  | __| __|_\_/  | __|    |   |/       | |      | | \   | |   |    | |
                          |
From: bc744@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Mark Ira Kaufman)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
Subject: NOT ALL SPEECH IS PROTECTED!
Date: 13 Apr 92 19:19:51 GMT
Article-I.D.: usenet.1992Apr13.191951.12580
Organization: Case Western Reserve University, Cleveland, Ohio, (USA)


   There are many ways to look at this KKK situation.  On the one
hand, the first amendment was written to protect speech that some
people might not like.  But there is some speech that is outside the
protection of the first amendment.  Threats are not protected.  As a
matter of fact, some threats fall under the category of assault.  One
does not have to be physically assailed to have been assaulted.  That
is battery.  If a skinhead approches me, wearing swastikas sewn to his
leather jacket, and I am wearing a kippah(Jewish skull cap), I would
feel threatened.  If he made a racial remark to me, some legal minds
have suggested that this constitutes assault.  If the Klan decides to
burn a cross in a location with a high African American population, a
reasonable person might perceive this as a threat.  A deliberate threat
can be considered assault.  By logical extention, this would NOT be a
protected form of speech.
   As such, in spite of my reverence for the first amendment,  drowning
out threats does not, IMHO, in any way violate the first amendment.  It
would be the same as if I were wearing both a tee shirt with a large
Jewish star on the front, and while carrying an Uzi, suggested that all
Klan members should be exterminated.  Even if I had sworn to not shoot
anyone, my behavior could easily be perceived as threatening.  So when
we look again at the track record of the KKK, their behavior could be
interpreted as even more threatening than me and my Uzi!
From: jgoldber@alchemy.chem.utoronto.ca (Joel Goldberg)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
Subject: Re: A Byte Of Torah I,XX The Seder
Date: 16 Apr 92 14:09:01 GMT
Organization: University of Toronto Chemistry Department

In article <92105.165945CFRQC@CUNYVM.BITNET> Center for Return <CFRQC@CUNYVM.BITNET> writes:
>  ||                                                                      ||
> ----                         T H E  S E D E R                           ----
>|    |                                                                  |    |
>"Kadeish UrChatz Karpas Yachatz Magid Rachtzah Motzee Matzah Marror Koreich
>Shulchan Oreich Tzafun Bareich Hallel Nirtza." (Passover Haggadah - Beginning)
>                                     However, washing before eating a wet item
>fell into disuse some time after the destruction of the Holy Temple.
  When this was mentioned recently, a number of people (all women too!)
  objected. The statement was amended to "...except in Toronto."
>                                                         It is therefore
>possible that according to Hillel the Elder, the Pascal Sacrifice was eaten
>like a shwarma (lamb in pita with vegetables).
   While waiting in tachanat egged to catch the camel back to emek
   yizrael.
Organization: Masters student, Industrial Administration, Carnegie Mellon, Pittsburgh, PA
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
Date: Fri, 10 Apr 1992 13:40:19 -0400 
From: Sandy Bodzin <sb5i+@andrew.cmu.edu>
Subject: Correction: Chalav Yisrael Post


In my post  on this topic I wrote:

>This claim is just as absurd.  I've spent many hours supervising
milking (for >Chalav Yisrael)  and milking does not take place in a farm.
                                                       ^^^^^

What I meant to write was that milking does not take place in a
grain-strewn barn as Yechezkal Gutfriend implies.
^^^^

Sandy
Xref: sparky soc.culture.jewish:7957 rec.arts.movies:13774