HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
Newsgroups: soc.college
Date: Fri,  6 Nov 1992 11:16:34 -0500 
From: Erik Warren Selberg <es2q+@andrew.cmu.edu>
Subject: Re: Frats
	<1992Nov5.192029.10489@dartvax.dartmouth.edu>

kristyp@coos.dartmouth.edu (Kristy Patterson) writes:
> fraternal (for lack of a gender-neutral term) organization is at all.  You say
> that the fundamental purpose of your organization is male bonding, and that
> women would screw it up if they were allowed to join.  But if they were, male
> bonding wouldn't be the purpose of the house any more.  You seem to be
> envisioning a house in which the brothers are still the foundation, and the
> few token women are there to date the brothers, and that the problem with this
> would be "[putting] the brothers at each others' throats."  Well, in a coed
> house, women are full members, not play-toys of the brothers.  Inter-house
> relationships can, of course, cause problems, but the sole problem is NOT
> that it puts the men at each others' throats.  Try imagining a house where
> the men and women are EQUAL.  The women aren't little sisters, and the
> men aren't the "real" members.

I am thinking of a house in which they are equal. The point I'm trying
to make is that the addition of women into an all-male fraternity
(likewise, men into a sorority) would cause more internal problems
than I think it is worth. Also, in response to your point, the one of
the purposes of a fraternity IS male bonding, and I see no reason why
someone should try to change that purpose. If I want to bond, then
that's my right.

> And how do you expect anyone to gain the maturity to deal with relationships
> if they don't experience them?  My house has had LOTS of great internal

A fraternity shouldn't be a proving ground for love! A social
fraternity should provide you with EXTERNAL OPPORTUNITIES for
relationships, and should not be something like a "dating club."


play: (412) 268-5534 (CMU-5-KEG)            _____            __   ___ 
work: (412) 268-3795 (CMU-ERYK)            /__    /   /  /  /_/  /__
else: (412) 683-0741                      /      /_  /__/  /    ___/ @cmu.edu
From: fontana@iguana.cis.ohio-state.edu (Mark Fontana)
Newsgroups: soc.college
Subject: Re: U-Penn e-mail accounts?
Date: 10 Nov 92 20:57:15 GMT
Article-I.D.: cis.1992Nov10.205715.22321
Organization: The Ohio State University Dept. of Computer and Info. Science


 (Richard Osterberg) writes:

>A friend of mine at U-Penn (undergrad) said that regular students are not
>allowed to have e-mail accounts there, but engineering students are
>entitled to them. As such, he has a friend who is an engineering student,
>and does mail through his account. Is this really true? Is there anyone
>out there (from Penn?) who knows more about this? It sounds pretty silly.

I went to Penn my freshman year (two years ago), and that was SORT OF
the case.  It seems all engineering students got accounts on 
eniac.seas.upenn.edu, a Sun 4/490.  There were a few other general machines
in engineering for EE students (ee) and grad students (grad1).  
Some students in the Wharton School got accounts on a VAX within that
school (do those count?  :-)  But plain old College students didn't
really have any options.

(Back to engineering:  Around the end of each semester, there are times
when eniac would have over 90 people logged in.  You'd just sit there
for like 45 seconds while you were swapped to disk!  It took hours to get
anything done this way.  Hard to believe, at an Ivy League school costing
$22,000 a year!  Though I hear they've now installed some Sun workstations)


Mark
From: tgpt_ltd@uhura.cc.rochester.edu (Tom Guptill)
Newsgroups: soc.college
Subject: Re: False fire alarms: Are they a problem for you?
Date: 12 Nov 92 05:33:42 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: University of Rochester - Rochester, New York


	YOU PEOPLE ARE ALL SPOILED ROTTEN!  Anyone from the U of R's Gilbert
or Susan B. Anthony dorms care to comment on the frequency of fire alarms? 
If the university could bill the residents we wouldn't have to worry about
tuition!  Seriously, I lived in Gilbert last year and it got to the point
where the alarm didn't even *wake* me anymore.  The building I live in now
has kitchens.  Kitchens + college students = smoke (and lots of it, not to
mention indigestion).  I know several people who've set them off already.  I
can't wait to move into a building without a fire alarm.

		Tom
  
-- 
| Tom Guptill           | tgpt_ltd@cc.rochester.edu (internet) |
| CPU Box 277445 U of R | tgpt_ltd@uordbv (bitnet)             |
| Rochester NY 14627    |                                      |
| (716) 274-0156        |                                      |
From: 01sybok@ac.dal.ca
Newsgroups: soc.college
Subject: Re: Frats (underage drinking)
Date: 9 Nov 92 12:43:04 -0400
Distribution: usa
Organization: Dalhousie University, Halifax, Nova Scotia, Canada

In article <aelman.721270459@Xenon.Stanford.EDU>, aelman@Xenon.Stanford.EDU (Adam Elman) writes:
> lie6@ellis.uchicago.edu (Jonathan Lieberman) writes:
> 
> 
> However, the drinking age in Canada is not 21 -- I know British
> Columbia is 19 and Quebec might be 18, but I don't know about other
> provinces...
> 

The drinking age in all of Canada is 19 except for Quebec and Alberta, where 
is is 18.


Mike
From: tarra@skat.usc.edu (Tom)
Newsgroups: soc.college
Subject: Re: Frats
Date: 5 Nov 1992 12:07:27 -0800
Organization: University of Southern California, Los Angeles, CA
NNTP-Posting-Host: skat.usc.edu

>If women were allowed to join your fraternity, I can imagine that
>there would be problems like that at the beginning.  But in the long
>run, it would be accepted.  The Stanford Band was once a male-only
>organization; now I can't imagine it as anything but coed.  Sure, we
>don't have as strong traditions or as strong a feeling of
>"brotherhood" as a fraternity, but I can't imagine that a fraternity
>couldn't deal with that sort of thing the same way.
>
>Adam Elman

And we have all seen what has happened to the Stanford band over the years.
They are just as untalented, yet not nearly as funny.  Are you sure you are
arguing in favor of allowing women?  Using examples like the Stanford band
as a positive for coed organizations is like using Adolf Hitler as a positive
example for strong leadership.:)

Seriously though you said it yourself, you lost much of the tradition formerly
associated with the Stanford band.  Maybe that isn't important to the band,
but tradition and history is important to most fraternities.  My house
prides itself on its long rich history, but we also pride ourselves on our
ability to change with society as long as we hold true to our values.

Perhaps if you knew how frats started you would be a little more tolerant.


Tom
-- 
"Chicks dig me because I rarely wear underwear"  
					Bill Murray 
Newsgroups: soc.college
From: jagreath@eos.ncsu.edu (JOSEPH ALAN GREATHOUSE)
Subject: Fraternity Citations 
Originator: jagreath@c00053-100lez.eos.ncsu.edu
Reply-To: jagreath@eos.ncsu.edu (JOSEPH ALAN GREATHOUSE)
Organization: North Carolina State University, Project Eos
Date: Sat, 7 Nov 1992 21:16:03 GMT


I am interested in looking through Ted's citation list and doing his research
here, now that I have some free time.  If anybody could send me a copy, I would
appreciate it greatly.  Thanks!

-- 
**************************************************************************
*                                                                        *
*  Joseph A. Greathouse            *  Smile and watch Tiny Toons!        *
*  Theta Chi Fraternity            *  Proud of it, too!                  *
*  Delta Rho Chapter               *  The finest at NCSU                 *
*  North Carolina State University *  Glad to finally be here. :)        *
*  !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!GO WOLFPACK!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!  *
**************************************************************************
Newsgroups: soc.college
From: u9227164@cc.uow.edu.au (Neil P Dillon)
Subject: U. of Miami/E-mail address
Summary: U of Miami  E-mail address
Keywords: Miami
Organization: University Of Wollongong
Date: Thu, 12 Nov 92 09:29:04 GMT


Does anyone have the U. of Miami E-mail address.  I am trying to get in 
contact with some people at U.M., but I don't have the E-mail address.
Specifically I am trying to get in touch with the Theatre Dept.  
Could someone mail me the address???!!!??!!

Thanks in advance.  (Please hurry!!)

Neil P. Dillon
u9227164@cc.uow.edu.au
From: kristyp@coos.dartmouth.edu (Kristy Patterson)
Newsgroups: soc.college
Subject: Re: frats
Date: 6 Nov 92 15:52:58 GMT
Distribution: na
Organization: Dartmouth College, Hanover, NH

In article <1992Nov6.083258.8660@ac.dal.ca> 01sybok@ac.dal.ca writes:
>In article <1992Oct30.204740.26877@cs.ucla.edu>, jrobbins@oahu.cs.ucla.edu (Jason Robbins) writes:
>> Sleazy, drunken, sexist, anti-intelectual. Just think of what a spot
>                                ^^^^^^^^^^^. 
>Intellectual. Two L's. Brought to you by your local sleazy, drunken,
>sexist, anti-intilLectual frat boy.
              ^^^^^^^^^^^^
IntEllectual.

>> Good idea. But you forgot: if they lifestyle that they embody is
>                     ^^^^^^                                     ^^
>Good agreement in verb tence, there.
                        ^^^^^
It's tenSe, by the way.

>Look pal, if you are going to try to make fraternity people look like
>anti-intellectuals you could at the very least try to write with a modicum
>of good style. It's just a suggestion. People might listen to what you have 
>to say if you do.
>
>Mike

I think it's a net.law that every spelling flame will contain at least
one spelling error.  In this case, there are two, but hey, who's counting?

-Kristy


-- 
   +==========================+============================================+
   |Kristy Patterson          |"One more date and we would have had a Greek|
   |kristyp@mac.dartmouth.edu |tragedy on our hands."     -Jeffrey Anderson|
   +==========================+============================Soapdish========+
From: rnc@what.csl.uiuc.edu
Newsgroups: soc.college
Subject: acknowledging one's advisor
Date: 12 Nov 1992 03:31:26 GMT
Organization: Center for Reliable and High-Performance Computing, University of Illinois at Urbana-Champaign
Distribution: world
NNTP-Posting-Host: cheetah.csl.uiuc.edu


Having trouble acknowledging your advisor in your thesis...
Here is something which may help:


I consider it a great accomplishment to have completed this
dissertation under the direction of my advisor, <your advisor>.
After working under him for five years, I still find it hard
to believe that he is so knowledgeable in the field.
I was very fortunate to obtain advice from him during the course
of my graduate studies; it was truly a once-in-a-lifetime experience
to receive his support and encourgement.
Even after he moved 2000 miles away, I noticed no difference
in the level of assistance and guidance he offered me.
In my opinion, no advisor would have been better than <your advisor>.

Newsgroups: soc.college
From: sknabe@pomona.claremont.edu
Subject: Re: I'd love to get tapes of college a capella groups!!!
Organization: Pomona College
Date: 6 Nov 92 18:20:43 PST

In article <1992Nov1.200154.1079@news.acns.nwu.edu>, alasnik@casbah.acns.nwu.edu (Adam Lasnik) writes:
> 
> Hi folks!
> 
> One of my friends was kinda enough to let me borrow her tape of the Brown
> University a capella singing group "The Brown Derbies."  Now I realize just
> HOW addicted I am to a capella singing groups :-)
> 
> If any of you out there would be able to get me tapes of college a capella 
> groups (with their permission, of course), I would be eternally greatful.  
> I'd, of course, reimburse you the full cost of the tape and postage, and/or 
> send you tapes of the groups I have (Back to Back of Oberlin, Roy G Biv and 
> Blind Man's Bluff of Northwestern)...
> 
> Also, if you have any info on how I can contact the groups directly (and buy
> tapes, etc.), I'd appreciate that too!
> 
> Thanks so much for your help...
> 
> --ADAM "KEYS" LASNIK from Northwestern


	I go to Pomona College.  We have both men and women's accapella groups
(The Men's and Women's Blue and White).  For info on how to get them, you can
contact paul mariz at PMARIZ@pomona.claremont.edu.
	By the way, are you Jerry Lasnik's son?  I was in his physiology class
at Agoura High.  If you are, tell him Stephanie Knabe says "hi"
				Stephanie Knabe

Newsgroups: soc.college
From: DSCT@db1.cc.rochester.edu (DAVID SCOTT)
Subject: grad strike at UC berkeley
Organization: University of Rochester, Rochester NY 
Date: Fri, 13 Nov 92 14:38:07 GMT
X-News-Reader: VMS NEWS 1.11

I heard somethng about the grad students at UC Berkeley going on strike.
Why?
How?    <What does a stiking graduate student do?>
Any details would be interesting.
				-Gavin

Xref: sparky soc.college:4627 can.general:5276 bc.general:392
From: jmorriso@ee.ubc.ca (John Paul Morrison)
Newsgroups: soc.college,can.general,bc.general
Subject: Re: Is sign language recognized anywhere?
Date: 5 Nov 92 08:10:07 GMT
Distribution: na
Organization: University of BC, Electrical Engineering

In article <1992Oct30.193319.14577@psych.toronto.edu> jarvis@psych.toronto.edu (Brian Jarvis) writes:
>
>ASL has been studied and accepted as a distinct and real language in
>linguistics for some time now.  It is just as valid as English, French or
>any other system of communication.  It is considered by my deaf friends to
>be their mother tongue; they feel English is their second language, even
>though they have been frequently raised with both.
>
>In summation, I can see no adequate reason why ASL should not be accepted
>as a second language requirement.

Then how about Esperanto? ASL and Esperanto are both artificial languages,
and I think that might be what's stopping recognition. ASL also isn't written,
and I think non-written, pre-civilisation languages have been rejected
as qualifying for the language requirement.

IT's a tedious and petty distinction I guess, but then we ARE talking about
Universities.

>
>Brian
>-- 
>
>Brian A. Jarvis,          Rm. 4026, Sidney Smith Hall, Dept. of Psychology,
>jarvis@psych.toronto.edu  University of Toronto, Toronto, Ontario, Canada
>System Administrator      M5S 1A1  (416) 978-3948


-- 
__________________________________________________________________________
 John Paul Morrison                     |  
 University of British Columbia, Canada |  
 Electrical Engineering                 |   .sig file without a cause
 jmorriso@ee.ubc.ca              VE7JPM |  
________________________________________|_________________________________
From: ac4x+@andrew.cmu.edu (Ariye M. Cohen)
Newsgroups: soc.college
Subject: Re: Frats
Date: 5 Nov 92 22:02:09 GMT
Article-I.D.: andrew.seyWO1W00iV3M9kYpi
	<1992Nov5.234515.29861@ultb.isc.rit.edu>
Organization: Freshman, MCS general, Carnegie Mellon, Pittsburgh, PA


On 05-Nov-92 in Re: Frats                    
user J.H. Huebner@ultb.isc.ri writes:
>organizations. Also I would argue that the most powerfull and in my
>opinion healthiest Fraternity on campus is APhiO the National _CO-ED_
>sevice fraternity.

First, the greek system has a higher GPA than the rest of campus (2.87
vs 2.4). Also 70% of all orientation counselors are greek (shows their
activity on campus and leadership positions). With over 30% of CMU
student's in the Greek system it is obvious that they play an important
part as the backbone of the campus community. Also it is the greek
system which is the most charitable section of the community (through
fundraisers, activities, etc.). 

No one is pressured if they are not affiliated with a particular house
or no house at all...however a majority of the leaders (or at least the
visible leaders) are members of the fraternities. I have noticed this in
my first few months here.

The Greek system as a whole...if run the way it was supposed to...works.
CMU's IFC just adopted a new constitution that makes it necessary for
houses with chronic problems to shape up and ship out. 

I believe that in a true fraternity the ideals and good aspect of the
greek system are predominant.

-Arik
Alpha Kappa Chapter
Alpha Epsilon Pi Fraternity
Newsgroups: soc.college
From: thf2@ellis.uchicago.edu (Mmmm... Purple)
Subject: Re: This "Frat" discussion...
Reply-To: thf2@midway.uchicago.edu
Organization: University of Chicago Computing Organizations
Date: Fri, 6 Nov 1992 02:36:45 GMT

In article <1992Nov5.195532.2381@merrimack.edu> caina@merrimack.edu writes:
>I find it interesting that your *supposedly* in law school...
>yet you have all this time  to post to the net.
>[...]
> But of course how foolish can I be?!  I just
>realized, for the past year, every time ted is up against the wall...
>he attacks the person, not the issue.  
>[...]
>   Ted, go to bed...it's past your bed time.

'Nuff said. 
-- 
ted frank                     | thf2@ellis.uchicago.edu 
also at quibeaux@uchicago.edu | standard disclaimers | void where prohibited
the university of chicago law school, chicago, illinois 60637
Newsgroups: soc.college,can.general,bc.general
From: gmw1@cunixa.cc.columbia.edu (Gabe M Wiener)
Subject: Re: Is sign language recognized anywhere?
Reply-To: gmw1@cunixa.cc.columbia.edu (Gabe M Wiener)
Organization: Columbia University
Distribution: na
Date: Sun, 8 Nov 1992 04:06:19 GMT

In article <1992Nov5.081007.5116@ee.ubc.ca> jmorriso@ee.ubc.ca (John Paul Morrison) writes:
>Then how about Esperanto? ASL and Esperanto are both artificial languages,
>and I think that might be what's stopping recognition. 

ASL is "artificial" ??  That's news to me.  ASL is a combination of two 
languages:  The old sign languages brought to America prior to 1819, and
the French sign language taught at the Clark school in the 1840's.

Show me one person who uses Esparanto as a day-to-day means of communication.


--
Gabe Wiener - Columbia Univ.     "This 'telephone' has too many shortcomings 
gmw1@cunixa.cc.columbia.edu       to be seriously considered as a means of 
N2GPZ in ham radio circles        communication. The device is inherently of
72355,1226 on CI$                 no value to us." -Western Union memo, 1877
Newsgroups: soc.college
From: 50monk@cua.edu
Subject: University of Florida at Gainesville:  email address
Organization: The Catholic University of America
Date: Fri, 6 Nov 1992 20:08:06 GMT

PLEASE HELP ME!!!!!!!!!I need the UF at Gainesville e-mail address.  Send it
to:  in%"50monk@cua.edu"
From: 01sybok@ac.dal.ca
Newsgroups: soc.college
Subject: Re: This "Frat" discussion...
Date: 6 Nov 92 09:08:36 -0400
Organization: Dalhousie University, Halifax, Nova Scotia, Canada

In article <1992Nov4.212059.2611@midway.uchicago.edu>, thf2@ellis.uchicago.edu (Mmmm... Purple) writes:
> In article <1d9amtINN3q0@skat.usc.edu> tarra@skat.usc.edu (Tom) writes:

> We'll leave aside the "only one in ten rapes get reported" stat, and the
> sheer impossibility of getting any sort of conviction for a fraternity
> rape (one of my main objections to the system -- it's a license to rape
> with impunity) for now -- can you give me the number or e-mail address of
> one of the wome

And the proof of this is?

Geez, I guess my liscence musta been lost in the mail...

Mike
From: fau@po.CWRU.Edu (Francis A. Uy)
Newsgroups: soc.college
Subject: Student Government Salary Update
Date: 13 Nov 1992 21:53:07 GMT
Organization: University of Maryland Baltimore Campus
Reply-To: fau@po.CWRU.Edu (Francis A. Uy)
NNTP-Posting-Host: hela.ins.cwru.edu


Thanks to everyone who responded to my initial 
 survey about student officers + salaries.  I
 wish I had gotten more responses from schools
 in Maryland, though.  

Since my original posting, I have learned that
 our officials actually are getting TWICE what
 I said.  The president gets $7800, the vp $6000,
 the treasurer $2000.  This is out of a total
 budget of under $400,000.  So 4% of our activity
 fee is going straight into their pockets.

Please keep sending stats about your school's
 salaries + budgets.  I'll post a full list at
 the end of the month.

...and then there's the story about how our
 president bought a $900 dress for a lady friend
 of his -- and charged it to the school.  But 
 that's for another day...
-- 
Francis A. Uy			Program Director, WUMD
Newsgroups: soc.college
From: fulton@silver.ucs.indiana.edu (Ben Fulton)
Subject: Re: This "Frat" discussion...
Organization: Indiana University
Date: Thu, 5 Nov 1992 18:31:34 GMT

In <key2kSm00WB4I945s9@andrew.cmu.edu> Erik Warren Selberg <es2q+@andrew.cmu.edu> writes:

>Someone went and read the bibliography in the last flame war (Mark?).

I think his name was Mike.  I found his arguments against the methodologies
used to be invalid, after reading the studies.

>Most of us quite simply don't have the time to be legal scholars (as
>if CMU's library had most of those works anyway).

Then why do you post about it?

PS: Incidentally, Indiana U has two copies of the Sanday book, "Fraternity 
Gang Rape", at least one of which is actually on the shelf (I checked).  
Are we no longer a "major university"?  :-(

PPS: I'm led to believe that CMU has one of the better fraternity systems;
I'm inclined to think the problem is less at private universities, where
the administration has greater disciplinary powers.

-- 
ben
fulton@silver.ucs.indiana.edu
Violence is the last refuge of the incompetent.
Government is sanctioned violence.
From: MIKEF@brownvm.brown.edu (Mike Fessler)
Newsgroups: soc.college
Subject: Re: Clauses of interest from our bylaws
Date: Sat, 7 Nov 1992 00:59:11 EST
Organization: Brown University - Providence, Rhode Island  USA
NNTP-Posting-Host: brownvm.brown.edu
News-Software: BNN via BNN_POST v1.0 beta

> If All frats were like yours I might even be convinced to join
>one. (well do you charge dues? that would turn me off)

We charge nominal dues ($95/semester), and we have an extremely liberal
financial aid/waiver policy for folks who can't afford to pay. The dues
go to the events that we put on -- fireside readings, a party or two
each semester, general house maintenance and repairs, kitchen supplies,
We have under 20 members, and not all pay full dues, so we're certainly
not rolling in dough.

I'd venture to say that my membership in St. A's has been one of the most
positive experiences I've had. There's something special about a group
of people who are committed to each other and to the organization that brought
them together and that allows them to interact in a unique way.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
Michael Fessler                                   mikef@brownvm.brown.edu
   To light a candle is to cast a shadow.  -- Ursula K. LeGuin
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
Newsgroups: soc.college
From: hogue@sol.UVic.CA (Rebecca Hogue)
Subject: frats. vs student society
Originator: hogue@sol.UVic.CA
Organization: University of Victoria, Victoria, B.C. CANADA
Distribution: na
Date: Thu, 12 Nov 92 20:55:10 GMT

-- 
*****************************************************************
Rebecca Hogue  rhogue@ra.uvic.ca 
Computer Science Student, University of Victoria
*****************************************************************
From: shadagop@remus.rutgers.edu (Narayanan Shadagopan)
Newsgroups: soc.college
Subject: looking for B. Matthew at Berkeley
Date: 10 Nov 92 19:18:51 GMT
Article-I.D.: remus.Nov.10.14.18.51.1992.4569
Organization: Rutgers Univ., New Brunswick, N.J.

I am posting this for a friend of mine. Does anybody know a Binoj
Matthew in the Molecular Plant Biology program or affiliated department?
If so, any information (eg. phone# address email) regarding his 
whereabouts would be appreciated. Please respond to

	    rroy@neuron.umdnj.edu.

Thanks.

-Narayanan
-- 
E-mail: shadagop@central.rutgers.edu