HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: floyd@hayes.ims.alaska.edu (Floyd Davidson)
Subject: Re: soc.culture.native.american
Organization: University of Alaska Computer Network
Date: Sun, 13 Dec 1992 23:15:16 GMT

In article <Bz7ILr.EoG@unix.amherst.edu> twpierce@unix.amherst.edu (Tim Pierce) writes:
>In article <1992Dec13.032653.4866@raven.alaska.edu> floyd@hayes.ims.alaska.edu (Floyd Davidson) writes:
>
>>(I would love to see the day
>>when there is enough traffic to create a group
>>soc.culture.native.alaskan!  Or perhaps s.c.native.yup'ik and
>>s.c.native.inupiaq some day too.)
>
>The issue is whether soc.culture.native.alaskan would have more in
>common with soc.culture.alaskan or soc.culture.native.  (True,
>soc.culture.alaskan doesn't exist, but alt.culture.alaskan does, and I
>think my point holds.)

I do agree that the issue is which it has more in common with, but
not at all about which point you have proven!

Alt.culture.alaskan is a relatively new creation, but I don't
recall that there has yet been even one single post relating to
Alaska Native cultures.  I also don't expect there to ever be
many.  It would be odd, considering the chartered purpose is to
discuss the culture here as it would be experienced by someone
from outside who wants to visit or relocate here.  (There are lots
of jokes about how Anchorage and Fairbanks are only one plane ride
from the *real* Alaska, and that is exactly the reason Alaska
Native culture won't be of much interest in that group...  they
are what makes the *real* Alaska real!)

Alt.native commonly has articles that relate to Alaska Native
cultures.

If we moved both alt.native and alt.culture.alaskan to mainstream
groups (s.c.native and s.c.alaskan) there still would be basically
a very small relationship between s.c.alaskan and Alaska Native cultures
when compared to the close relationship between s.c.native and those
same Alaska Native cultures.

This line of debate is ironic in that I recently posted several articles
to alt.native pointing out that while Alaska's Eskimo cultures are
in many ways simular to outside Indian cultures, they are NOT one
and the same.  Now I'm put in a position of pointing out that while
that is true, they are much closer to outside Indian cultures than
they are to whatever it is that will be discussed in a.c.alaskan!

And that is why I'd love to see s.c.native.alaskan some day.  Actually
I would rather see enough Alaska Native's on usenet to make it worth
doing...

Floyd
-- 
floyd@ims.alaska.edu        A guest on the Institute of Marine Science computer
Salcha, Alaska              system at the University of Alaska at Fairbanks.
Newsgroups: news.groups
From: jgd@dixie.com (John De Armond)
Subject: Re: RFD: soc.culture.native-america
Date: Sun, 13 Dec 92 22:17:53 GMT
Organization: Dixie Communications Public Access.  The Mouth of the South.

twpierce@unix.amherst.edu (Tim Pierce) writes:

>You are a native of this country, but not a "Native American" in the
>colloquial sense.  I don't know of anyone who refers to themselves as
>"Native American" who does not have a fair portion of Cherokee or
>Navajo (or some such) blood in them.

Bullshit, Tim.  Anyone born in America is a native American.  The only
difference between the guy getting off the ship today and the American
Indians is when they came.  

I'm part Cherokee Indian.  That part I refer to as American Indian.
I am ALL native American because I was born here.  What's so hard 
about that?  

I suspect the new group could be more accurately labeled 
soc.culture.indian.how.the.evil.white.man.screwed.us or 
soc.culture.indian.bingo or 
soc.culture.indian.getting.more.money.from.uncle.sam
for what I anticipate the discussion will be about.
(Yes, this is highly cynical but it seems appropriate to what I've seen
in the media in recent years under the "native american" moniker)

I never have figured out why some American Indians seem to be so ashamed
of their breed that they want to try to change their name to somehing
politically correct but completely meaningless.  What is wrong with
soc.culture.american.indian?


John
-- 
John De Armond, WD4OQC               |Interested in high performance mobility?  
Performance Engineering Magazine(TM) | Interested in high tech and computers? 
Marietta, Ga                         | Send ur snail-mail address to 
jgd@dixie.com                        | perform@dixie.com for a free sample mag
Need Usenet public Access in Atlanta?  Write Me for info on Dixie.com.
Newsgroups: news.groups
From: bogstad@gauss.cs.jhu.edu (Bill Bogstad)
Subject: Re: PROPOSAL:  Yes votes >= 200+2*No Votes
Organization: Johns Hopkins Computer Science Department, Baltimore, MD
Date: Sat, 12 Dec 1992 20:47:56 GMT

In article <1992Dec12.202255.5783@wuecl.wustl.edu> amc@wucs1.wustl.edu (Adam Costello) writes:
>I don't see why there should be no-votes at all.  I think if 200 people
>want a new group, let them have it.  Those who don't want it don't
>have to subscribe.  It's not as if creating new groups increases the
>total volume of USENET.  It just makes it easier for people to locate
>the information they're looking for.

	First of all it can increase the total volume of USENET.  I believe
a vote on comp.lang.cobol failed a while back.  As far as I can tell this
hasn't resulted in scores of COBOL postings in other comp.* groups.  Second,
adding additional groups can make it HARDER to find information.  It is not
unusual to see an inappropriate posting to a vaguely related group when a
more specific group exists.  It is my contention that this is because the
poster found it too difficult to figure out the correct group.  I'm not
saying that this is the right thing for them to do.  I'm saying that it
happens.

				Bill Bogstad
Newsgroups: news.groups
From: dave@jato.jpl.nasa.gov (Dave Hayes)
Subject: Re: Give up, Dave, you've lost!
Reply-To: dave@jato.jpl.nasa.gov
Organization: Jet Propulsion Lab - Pasadena, CA
Date: Mon, 14 Dec 1992 21:53:51 GMT

jmaynard@oac.hsc.uth.tmc.edu (Jay Maynard) writes:
>>I don't think that the gateway was dropped because of me, first of all.
>...never mind the messages from the list complaining about the suddenly
>increased level of flamage, and the fact that you kept redirecting the flames
>back into it...

I only did that ONCE. 

>>Secondly, this is a real oppressive tactic to use...you are in effect 
>>saying that complaining may serve to do more damage than the negative action
>>which prompted it in the first place...which implies (intention or no) 
>>that you should never complain about anything.
>No; it implies that you should be careful about where, how, and how much to
>complain.

*poing*

On Usenet? Hardly.

>Swatting a housefly with a Buick may kill the fly, but it's hard on
>the Buick, too. 

We aren't talking about physical damage here. We are talking about complaints.
If people can't ignore someone they call a bozo, then that's their problem.

>my intention to get you to see that you're hurting people in the name of
>helping them - kinda like the old "fucking for virginity".

*poing*

I'm not hurting anyone. Sorry. Unless people can be hurt by my words, in
which case they are giving me a LOT of power.
-- 
Dave Hayes - Network & Communications Engineering - JPL / NASA - Pasadena CA
dave@elxr.jpl.nasa.gov       dave@jato.jpl.nasa.gov         ...usc!elroy!dxh

                      A poor man shames us all.
From: dseal@armltd.co.uk (David Seal)
Newsgroups: news.groups
Subject: Re: PROPOSAL:  Yes votes >= 200+2*No Votes
Date: 16 Dec 92 16:10:20 GMT
Distribution: news
Organization: A.R.M. Ltd, Swaffham Bulbeck, Cambs, UK

In article <id.FFUV.O5I@ferranti.com> peter@ferranti.com (peter da silva)
writes:

>Some of the reorgs would have come out differently. Why was there such
>opposition to rec.games.frp.misc, anyone know?

I believe it was a perception by some people that renaming r.g.f to
r.g.f.misc was essentially categorising the games it covered (i.e.
everything except the *D&D family) as being "miscellaneous" and therefore
unimportant.

Also, there may have been a feeling that this renaming didn't achieve
anything and was just change for change's sake. I certainly believe this was
a factor in the comp.sys.acorn -> comp.sys.acorn.misc renaming, which didn't
pass during the comp.sys.acorn reorg. I'd better don my asbestos suit for
the following statement :-): I get the impression that a significant number
of people are *not* willing to accept the received wisdom that when a group
is reorganised, whatever is left of the parent group should normally be
renamed to add a ".misc" suffix.

Anyone feel like writing a "How to Name a New Usenet Group" document, as
supplementary material to the Guidelines?

David Seal
dseal@armltd.co.uk

All opinions are mine only...
Newsgroups: news.groups
From: emcguire@intellection.com (Ed McGuire)
Subject: Re: User's Guide to the Changing USENET
Organization: Intellection, Inc.
Date: Sat, 12 Dec 1992 17:24:17 GMT

In article <1g5hdpINNbov@gaia.ucs.orst.edu> stanley@skyking.OCE.ORST.EDU (John Stanley) writes:

   In article <12689.9212082235@csparc12.scs.leeds.ac.uk> ross-c@scs.leeds.ac.uk writes:
   >Hmmm.. I haven't had a .sig in several articles. Something's going on.
   When you can't argue the issues, blame the newsreader. 

When you don't agree with someone, ridicule him.
-- 
Ed McGuire                   1603 LBJ Freeway, Suite 780
Systems Administrator/       Dallas, Texas 75234
 Member of Technical Staff   214/620-2100, FAX 214/484-8110
Intellection, Inc.           <ed@intellection.com>
Newsgroups: news.groups
From: dave@jato.jpl.nasa.gov (Dave Hayes)
Subject: Re: DAVE HAYES MAY BE RIGHT!
Reply-To: dave@jato.jpl.nasa.gov
Organization: Jet Propulsion Lab - Pasadena, CA
Date: Wed, 16 Dec 1992 00:18:34 GMT

karish@pangea.Stanford.EDU (Chuck Karish) writes:
>>>When someone answers one of your challenges, you respond
>>>by setting unreasonable standards of proof.  The challenge
>>>in response is entirely approriate.
>>I don't think you can prove anything, myself, unless it is
>>strictly mathematical.
>Dave, this is a straightforward admission on your part
>that you've been indulging in the sort of intellectual
>dishonesty of which I've accused you.  You demand proof
>of those who disagree with you, even though you admit
>that satisfactory proof is not possible.

Your interpretation. Way back when, I refused to prove anything
on the grounds that nothing was provable. However, I figured
that if it was good for the goose that it was good for the gander,
and I took your words ("prove it") and gave them back to you.

Call that dishonest if you will, and interpret it how you like.

>The point at issue isn't whether the message was likely to
>have been noticed, it's whether it was available ("popped
>up in front of their noses").  

The point never was "is it available?"...the point was always 
"was it noticable?"...if you'd read what I have been saying 
instead of trying to find some way to argue at me you'd have
understood that. 

>>>This is the second time I've answered one of your idiotic
>>>demands for Truth.  You get that from religion, not from
>>>philosophy or politics and most emphatically not from
>>>usenet.
>>How do you know where I get that?
>If you get it at all, that's where you get it, because
>absolute truth isn't available anywhere else.

Now who's being philosophical? And who in the world said I
was asking for such a philosophic bone of contention as 
"absolute truth" in such a down-to-earth forum as news.groups?

>You don't seem to care about truth at all.  I don't
>know why you say "prove it" to others and reject the same
>request when others make it of your.

That's what I was telling _you_. You asked first. I merely
gave it back to you. You didn't like that one bit, apparently.
--
From: bartusek@iscsvax.uni.edu
Newsgroups: news.groups
Subject: Sports Card Collecting??
Date: 11 Dec 92 13:28:07 -0600
Organization: University of Northern Iowa

I am wondering if there is a news group about sports card collecting?
If there is, please give me jingle!!

Thanks in advance!

Marc Bartusek
Graphic Desinger
University of Northern Iowa

GO PANTHERS! GO PANTHERS! GO PANTHERS! GO PANTHERS! GO PANTHERS! GO PANTHERS!

Newsgroups: news.groups
From: emcguire@intellection.com (Ed McGuire)
Subject: Re: User's Guide to the Changing USENET
Organization: Intellection, Inc.
Date: Tue, 15 Dec 1992 06:49:01 GMT

In article <1gge1qINNgr3@gaia.ucs.orst.edu> stanley@skyking.OCE.ORST.EDU (John Stanley) writes:

   Now, try again. Who originated the "ridiculous comment"?

Unfortunately the original article has expired from my spool.  I
assume that you are right and that I was mistaken when I attributed
the original comment to Ross-c.
-- 
Ed McGuire                   1603 LBJ Freeway, Suite 780
Systems Administrator/       Dallas, Texas 75234
 Member of Technical Staff   214/620-2100, FAX 214/484-8110
Intellection, Inc.           <ed@intellection.com>
Xref: sparky news.groups:24745 soc.motss:53199
From: tdbear@dvorak.amd.com (Thomas D. Barrett)
Newsgroups: news.groups,soc.motss
Subject: Re: Soc.Motss.* / Automoderation.
Date: 20 Dec 92 22:37:45 GMT
Organization: Advanced Micro Devices, Inc.; Austin, Texas

I generally use trn's select to look at only the topics in soc.motss
which is of interest... since this takes less than 5 minutes, I don't
see what the need is to change anything.  "motss" has historic
significance, but I would be willing to go with a change of names to
something like "soc.queer".

Tom
-- 
| Tom Barrett (TDBear), Sr. Engineer | tom.barrett@amd.com
| AMD PCD / Austin, TX  78741        | v:512-462-6856 / f:512-462-5155
| "No is yes, And we're all free"    | CO made a #2 no-no... PU!
| My views may not be shared by the organization of origin
Newsgroups: news.groups
From: idoy@crux1.cit.cornell.edu (Mike Wilson)
Subject: Re: RFD: soc.culture.native.american
Organization: Cornell Information Technologies
Date: 18 Dec 92 22:19:37 GMT

dave@frackit.UUCP (Dave Ratcliffe) writes:

>In article <1992Dec12.203235.10147@spdcc.com>, gst@spdcc.com (Gary S. Trujillo) writes:
>> In article <1992Dec11.115804.16476@vax5.cit.cornell.edu>
>> 	idoy@vax5.cit.cornell.edu writes:
>> > ...
>> > one name really hasn't given anybody any grief:   soc.culture.native
>> 
>> I think that "soc.culture.native" would be an ideal name for the present.
>> It will let us encourage an international perspective and subject matter,
>> and garner support from the net in broader terms, particularly due to 1993
>> having been designated "The Year of Indigenous People(s)."  We can, if
>> there is a need, later create newsgroups under the "soc.culture.native"
>> hierarchy (such as "soc.culture.native.american").

>In that case:

>                  soc.culture.native.na (North American)
>                  soc.culture.native.sa (South American)
>                  soc.culture.native.eu (Europe)
>                  soc.culture.native.as (Asia)
>                  soc.culture.native.af (Africa)

>..... and so on. 

>I dunno...... Maybe?


>-- 
> vogon1!compnect!frackit!dave@psuvax1.psu.edu            |  Dave Ratcliffe  |

Hello Dave,

These ideas sound good to me, although perhaps the two letter
designations could be extended?

In any case, I thought that, in a general sense, the way that
creating newsgroups worked was to create the hierarchy, and
then later to propose new RFDs for these other groups.  Once
a solid hierarchy was created, in other words, others could
later build upon it as they wished.

Mike
Newsgroups: news.groups,sci.med
From: lamontg@stein.u.washington.edu (Lamont Granquist)
Subject: RFD: sci.med.psychiatry
Organization: 'Operation: Mindcrime'
Date: Tue, 15 Dec 1992 04:01:15 GMT

Okay, this is a straw poll.  Who wants sci.med.psychiatry and who would
rather have something else like sci.med.neuroscience?

Just vote yes or no for sci.med.psychiatry -- we can quibble about the
renaming if the no vote wins.  Feel free to post discussion to the net,
please don't fire it at me.  I'm going to be gone on vacation.  When I'm
back I'll tally it up, and either come up with another RFD, or preceed
with the CFV for sci.med.psychiatry based on the results...

mail to lamontg@u.washington.edu -- should be the same as the reply
address on this post. 

-- 
Lamont Granquist  lamontg@u.washington.edu
  "When dogma enters the brain, all intellectual activity ceases."
                                      -- Robert Anton Wilson
From: dave@frackit.UUCP (Dave Ratcliffe)
Newsgroups: news.groups
Subject: Re: RFD: rec.arts.fantasy
Date: 16 Dec 92 21:18:11 GMT
Organization: Data Factory Services, Harrisburg, Pa.

In article <698@ulogic.UUCP>, hartman@ulogic.UUCP (Richard M. Hartman) writes:
> In article <1864@frackit.UUCP> I said:
> >In my mind, at least, there is a
> >clear separation between Fantasy and SCIENCE Fantasy. But then, I'm an
> >old line SF fan so some of my ideas are a bit, er, uhm.... archaic? :)
>
> Well, actually, I don't think the line is so clear myself, as do many
> other people, which is why F&SF are frequently bundled together.

[ good examples of a blurred dividing line deleted for brevity]

> There are enough of these cases that bundling the two categories
> together makes sense.

Good point. I guess I can be pursuaded into thinking your way given your
good choice of examples. 


> More to the point however, is that the majority of people who read
> fantasy also read science fiction (and visa versa).  The percentage
> of people who are "SF Chauvinists" or "Fantasy Chauvinists" seems to
> be small enough that a separation is clearly not in the interest of
> the larger segment of the population.

Well, I guess a vote will prove or disprove that one :)  Never thought
of myself as a "Chauvinist" though, more of a "Purist". As I said you've
given me reason enough to think about adopting your position. 

> I still think that the group should have a better name.  Some ideas
> have been brought up.  A lot of people liked the "*.f-sf.*" idea that 
> I came up with.  If you have another idea, toss it in the pot, but I
> really don't think you'll get much support for a split.

I tend to agree with your .f-sf.* idea for the moment although, like
you, I have some reservations about it. I'll think on it and speak up if
come up with anything better. It beats sf-f which implies science
fantasy but not straight fantasy. 

-- 
 vogon1!compnect!frackit!dave@psuvax1.psu.edu            |  Dave Ratcliffe  |
 - or - ..uunet!wa3wbu!frackit!dave                      |  Sys. <*> Admin. |
                                                         | Harrisburg,  Pa. |
Newsgroups: news.groups
From: dbd@urartu.sdpa.org (David Davidian)
Subject: Re: soc.culture.native
Organization: S.D.P.A. Center for Regional Studies
Date: Sun, 20 Dec 1992 17:13:17 GMT

A problem I see with anything except Native AMERICAN is that every ethnic
conflict in the universe just might be dumped in a newsgroup with names such
as soc.culture.native, s.c.aboriginal, etc..

I feel the native peoples of the Americas should have their newsgroup, if they
require it, and one that is not ambiguous in character.


-- 
David Davidian <dbd@urartu.sdpa.org>  |  "The Regular Army of the Ottomans was 
SDPA Center for Regional Studies      |   entirely innocent of the Armenian 
P.O. Box 382761                       |   massacres." - Inspector General of 
Cambridge, MA 02238                   |   the Turkish forces in Armenia, WWI 
Newsgroups: news.groups
From: fox@rei.com (Fuzzy Fox)
Subject: Re: Hispanoparlantes
Date: Tue, 15 Dec 1992 00:07:30 GMT
Organization: Recognition Equipment, Inc.

dis@halcon.dpi.udec.cl () writes:

>Soy un hispano parlante de Chile que propone a los que hablen este idioma
>a que se unan conmigo y se cree  un nuevo grupo donde podamos comunicarnos.

Porque' no se use el grupo "soc.culture.latin-america"?

-- 
#ifdef TRUE        | Fuzzy Fox (a.k.a. David DeSimone)       fuzzy@netcom.com
#define  TRUE   0  |
#define  FALSE  1  |  "You have been recruited by the Star League to defend
#endif             |     the Frontier against Xur and the Kodan Armada."
Xref: sparky news.groups:24201 alt.native:1392
From: dave@jato.jpl.nasa.gov (Dave Hayes)
Subject: Re: RFD: Rename rec.music.maker.synth to rec.music.synth?
Reply-To: dave@jato.jpl.nasa.gov
Organization: Jet Propulsion Lab - Pasadena, CA
Date: Mon, 14 Dec 1992 13:52:38 GMT

rsk@gynko.circ.upenn.edu (Rich Kulawiec) writes:

>The disconnection from the SYNTH-L list will not go away; the owner
>of list has indicated (in private mail to me; I'll be happy to ask
>him to tell you personally if you don't believe what I'm about to
>tell you) that the users of the list on the Bitnet side prefer
>that it remain disconnected. 

Would you ask him to email me? I'd be curious what the real reason
for the disconnection is...the original owner told me something
about being tired of name changes.
-- 
Dave Hayes - Network & Communications Engineering - JPL / NASA - Pasadena CA
dave@elxr.jpl.nasa.gov       dave@jato.jpl.nasa.gov         ...usc!elroy!dxh

          No snowflake falls in an inappropriate place.
Newsgroups: news.groups,us.groups
From: rbp@netcom.com (Bob Pasker)
Subject: Re: Court Rulings Hierarchy
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services  (408 241-9760 guest) 
Date: Sat, 12 Dec 1992 04:56:02 GMT

i heartily support a hierarchy for court opinions!!!

-- 
--- bob pasker
---- rbp@netcom.com
Newsgroups: news.groups
From: dave@jato.jpl.nasa.gov (Dave Hayes)
Subject: Re: *poing*
Reply-To: dave@jato.jpl.nasa.gov
Organization: Jet Propulsion Lab - Pasadena, CA
Date: Thu, 17 Dec 1992 01:46:35 GMT

jmaynard@oac.hsc.uth.tmc.edu (Jay Maynard) writes:
>Dave and I actually agree on something... :-)

Heavens to mergatroid! I'd better change my viewpoint FAST. ;-)
-- 
Dave Hayes - Network & Communications Engineering - JPL / NASA - Pasadena CA
dave@elxr.jpl.nasa.gov       dave@jato.jpl.nasa.gov         ...usc!elroy!dxh

          People oppose things because they are ignorant of them.
From: rorschak@daimi.aau.dk (Jesper Lauridsen)
Subject: Re: DAVE HAYES MAY BE RIGHT!
Organization: Xanth Watch
Date: Mon, 14 Dec 92 22:14:59 GMT

dave@jato.jpl.nasa.gov (Dave Hayes) writes:

>Sounds just as hard as proving that it popped up in front of
>their noses. 

>It's interesting...when I ask someone else to prove something,
>(which I've been asked to do many times) they rebut with 
>"No, YOU prove it". 

OK.

1) Readers of rec.music.synth reads news by placing their eyes in front
   of a screen.

2) A nose is (on a human being) placed under the eyes.

3) The most attention given part of the human field of vision is
   in front of the human nose.

4) The screen used for newsreading is in the most attention given part 
   of the human field of vision.

5) When reading rec.music.synth the articles of said group are on
   the screen used for newsreading.

6) The articles of rec.music.synth are in the most attention given part 
   of the human field of vision.

7) The articles of rec.music.synth are in front of the rec.music.synth 
   readers noses.

8) The CFVs, RFDs and an independent articel concerning the vote was
   posted in rec.music.synth.

9) The articles dealing with the vote was placed in front of the 
   rec.music.synth readers noses.

10) Instructions on how to vote popped up in front of their noses.

Your turn, Dave.

-- 
Jesper Lauridsen        |  I survived the rec.arts.sf-lovers split
rorschak@daimi.aau.dk   |
From: jmaynard@oac.hsc.uth.tmc.edu (Jay Maynard)
Newsgroups: news.groups
Subject: Re: Futility
Date: 14 Dec 1992 16:12:26 GMT
Organization: UT Health Science Center Houston

In article <1992Dec14.142238.9311@jato.jpl.nasa.gov> dave@jato.jpl.nasa.gov writes:
>jfurr@polaris.async.vt.edu (Joel Furr) writes:
>>Why don't you just give it a rest?

(Good question, Joel!)

>To do so is to ensure defeat.

You're assuming that you have a whelk's chance in a supernova of winning.

>Just how do I win from shutting up? 

Let me answer this with another question: How can you win at all? It is my
(and many others') contention that you cannot.
-- 
Jay Maynard, EMT-P, K5ZC, PP-ASEL | Never ascribe to malice that which can
jmaynard@oac.hsc.uth.tmc.edu      | adequately be explained by stupidity.
  "All [Windows] NT has is a lot of journalists fooled." -- Brian Button
Xref: sparky news.groups:24536 alt.native:1456