HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: v079rbu4@ubvmsd.cc.buffalo.edu (Sanjay Kohli)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.indian
Subject: Re: This is for the "Secularists"
Date: 14 Dec 92 22:52:00 GMT
Organization: University at Buffalo
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41

In article <Bz9oA9.K5n@acsu.buffalo.edu>, v999r9ne@ubvmsd.cc.buffalo.edu (Vikram S Sinha) writes...
>structure which technically belongs to the Archeological Survey of India
> Muslims should give up their fanatical ways and constant bitching and 
>try and become a part of the Indian mainstream or remain a bunch of 
>barbarians living in the dark ages, offcourse the third alternative is
>immigration to Pakistan where they will be given a welcome which will
>make them long for India.(look at what is happenning to the mohajirs in
>Pakistan) . Frankly we have tolerated enough nonsense from these bastards
>, they live and thrive in India but remain loyal to Pakistan.Any Hindu 
>wants to be a secularist and continue to put up with these parasites should
>have himself or herself checked up. Offcourse there are exceptions to the 
>rule ,but they are few in number. Frankly Indian Muslims are a blemish
>on the the teachings of the prophet, who preached peace and understanding
>and not waging jihad after jihad.Finally as far as Hindu secularists are
>concerned I just have one thing to say FU_K YOU!!!
>                                  Regards'

>                                Vikram Sinha.

Nicely said! 
             I hope this gives them some sense.






Cheers
From: sanjay@bohr.physics.purdue.edu (Sanjay Kumar)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.indian
Subject: Organisation which held demonstration against Indian Consulate in New York
Date: 15 Dec 92 18:38:46 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: Purdue University Physics Department

Newsgroups: soc.culture.india
Subject: Organisation which held demonstration against Indian Consulate in New York ??
Summary: 
Followup-To: 
Distribution: usa
Organization: Purdue University Physics Department
Keywords: 
          I need inforamtion about the organisation which held a demonstration 
in front of the Indian Consulate in New York, against Govt. of India's handling of the Babri Masjid dispute, and the conflagration resulting from its demolition. I think, the name of the organisation is Progressive Students' Organisation
, or some thing like it. Shall be grateful if any of the  members, office bearers, or 
anyone else connected with this organisation contact me at the following add.
    sanjay@physics.purdue.edu
					Thanks.
 

Newsgroups: soc.culture.india
Subject: Organisation which held demonstration against the Indian Consulate in New York
Summary: 
Followup-To: 
Distribution: usa
Organization: Purdue University Physics Department
Keywords: 

Newsgroups: soc.culture.india
Subject: Organisation which held demonstration against Indian Consulate in New York ??
Summary: 
Followup-To: 
Distribution: usa
Organization: Purdue University Physics Department
Keywords: 
          I need inforamtion about the organisation which held a demonstration 
in front of the Indian Consulate in New York, against Govt. of India's handling of the Babri Masjid dispute, and the conflagration resulting from its demolition. I think, the name of the organisation is Progressive Students' Organisation
, or some thing like it. Shall be grateful if any of the  members, office bearers, or 
anyone else connected with this organisation contact me at the following add.
    sanjay@physics.purdue.edu
					Thanks.
 

Xref: sparky soc.culture.indian:41068 soc.culture.pakistan:18293
From: dwoodman@unlinfo.unl.edu (david woodman)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.indian
Subject: cooking items
Date: 17 Dec 1992 17:40:28 GMT
Organization: University of Nebraska--Lincoln	
Distribution: world
NNTP-Posting-Host: unlinfo.unl.edu
Summary: need a source for indian groceries (mail order?)
Keywords: idli maker

I need to find a source for indian spices and an idli steamer.  Also, 
what on earth is "DOKRA" flour?  I have some but do not know what to 
do with it.
Please e-mail your response to
dwoodman@unlinfo.unl.edu

ps.  Any Bombay Scottish High school alumni out there.  I graduated in
1973.
Newsgroups: soc.culture.indian
From: dea@jec308.its.rpi.edu (Anirban De)
Subject: AIR News (3pm EST)
Organization: Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute, Troy NY
Date: Sat, 12 Dec 1992 21:08:21 GMT


Source: All India Radio 
Time: 2pm EST & 3pm EST
COuntry: INDIA

Situation in most parts of the country is improving
and life is coming back to normal

Relief measures are being taken to help those affected
by the violence with the help of various state govts.
and voluntary relief organizations

The European Community meeting in Edinburgh has expressed
concern at the recent incidents in India and has appealed,
alongside the Indian PM P V Narsimha Rao to the leaders of
religious communities to exercise restraint

Mother Teresa has also appealed to people for calm




Because of the improvement in the general situation, curfew
was lifted today (ie. Saturday) for 2 hrs. in the morning &
3 hours in the evening in most places. Army is still deployed
wherever it seems necessary.

Delhi was incident free today. 
In UP, which saw the worst violence, over 9,700 people are
reported to have been arrested. The situation in Ayodhya and 
Faizabad is reported to be under control. Central Ministers
V C Shukla and B Jakhar today visited the riot affected areas
of UP.

The city of Bombay, which also witnessed extreme violence, is 
now peaceful and curfew was relaxed for 5 hours. The home
minister S B Chavan visited parts of Maharashtra and Gujarat
today.

Reports of improvement in situation are received from Assam, 
Jammu & Kashmir and Punjab as well. In Calcutta the curfew
was relaxed today. The Congress leader Janardhan Pujari payed
a visit to the city of Bhopal to assess situation there.

The situation in Hyderabad is, in general, under control 
barring one isolated incidence.

In the state of Karnataka the only violence reported was from
the district of Tumpur (sp??). The rest of the state is peaceful.


Anirban De

(dea@rpi.edu)

Newsgroups: soc.culture.indian
From: bala@iastate.edu (M.K.Balasubramanya)
Subject: Police action after Ayodhya - Amnesty's statement
Organization: Iowa State University, Ames, IA
Date: Mon, 14 Dec 1992 17:03:56 GMT

Reposted from misc.activism.progressive. Original article by Hilary Naylor.
						- b a l a
------------------------------------------------------------------------------ 
 Written  7:20 pm  Dec 13, 1992 by hnaylor@igc.apc.org in igc:ai.general 

Amnesty International
International Secretariat
1 Easton Street
London WC1X 8DJ
United Kingdom 

DATE: 10 DECEMBER 1992

INDIA: AMNESTY INTERNATIONAL CONCERNED BY POLICE KILLINGS FOLLOWING MOSQUE
DEMOLITION AT AYODHYA

Amnesty International cabled Prime Minister Narasimha Rao on 9 December to
express concern about some of the killings which followed the recent
destruction of the Babri Masjid (mosque) in the Uttar Pradesh town of Ayodhya
on 6 December. 

      Over 600 people are known to have been killed in violence throughout the
country since Sunday. Amnesty International is concerned at the number of
deaths that have occurred as a result of police firing on protestors and
rioters. This happened in Bombay where at least 40 people died, some
reportedly as a result of indiscriminate police firing. Most victims belonged
to the Muslim community. 

      Amnesty International urged the government to take the utmost care to
prevent further loss of life and to ensure that the security forces are
instructed not to use lethal force unless as a very last resort when they face
a life-threatening situation - and only after appropriate warnings have been
given. Amnesty International also asked the government for clarification of
the nature of the charges and the evidence against the leader of opposition,
L.K Advani (who has now resigned), Murli Manohar Joshi, the leader of the BJP
and other party members who were arrested on 8 December 1992. 

      The 16th century Babri Masjid (mosque), now destroyed by rioting Hindus
but which the Indian government has assured will be rebuilt - stood at a site
in Ayodhya claimed to be the birthplace of the Hindu God Ram. Ayodhya lies in
Uttar Pradesh, India's most populous state ruled by the opposition Bharatiya
Janata Party (BJP), which was dismissed by the central government in New Delhi
after it had failed to uphold its undertaking to abide by a Supreme Court
ruling prohibiting any construction work of a Hindu temple at the site.

      The BJP, which backed the campaign for the last three years for a Hindu
temple to be built, and the Hindu revivalist Vishwa Hindu Parishad (VHP -
World Hindu Council), which organized the current campaign, had given
undertakings to the government that, on Sunday 6 December, they would only
participate in ceremonial rituals and would not permit the destruction of the
mosque and the building of a Hindu temple on its site. But when rioting Hindus
stormed the mosque and demolished it, the Provincial Armed Constabulary was
reported to have withdrawn quietly, leaving the mosque undefended.


Xref: sparky soc.culture.indian:40962 soc.culture.pakistan:18251
From: fafat@aludra.usc.edu (Vijay Fafat)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.indian,soc.culture.pakistan
Subject: Re: Narrow Hindu Beliefs- was- Ram (Was he Fact or Fiction)??
Date: 15 Dec 1992 19:09:56 -0800
Organization: University of Southern California, Los Angeles, CA
NNTP-Posting-Host: aludra.usc.edu

Kuram Narayan writes:
>In article <1gbmfbINNijk@aludra.usc.edu> fafat@aludra.usc.edu (Vijay Fafat) writes:
>>	Nope. Scriptures don't expound "theories". They're just philosophies.
>>	Darwin's theory is'nt an idle flight of fancy. 
>>
>This is the first time that I am learning that Darwin's theory is something
>that can be established. Scriptures are as much theories as Darwins.

	Certainly, just like my theory about the sun being carried about
	my dear old turtle (atta boy! :).  You could go on making "theories"
	ad nauseam. But they have to satisfy certain criteria like being 
	falsifiable, going thru the Occam's razor, making definite
	predictions, summarizing the set of observations in as concise a
	framework of "simple" rules as possible, etc. While Darwin's
	theory is certainly not "established" (for that matter, there's 
	not a single theory in science which has been "established",
	including General Relativity and Quantum Mech., despite their
	phenomenal successes), it is an organized attempt to hack thru
	the maze of observations. The scriptures are in the Aristotelian 
	tradition; everything thru cerebration (This would have done
	Einstein proud but for the fact that Einstein did'nt remain
	mired in Gedanken-experiments but related them to the real world).
	To that extent, my turtle theory is as good or as bad as your
	scriptures.


>They remain so, until a finality for creation is established through
>scientific means. Atleast from what I know of science, science has
>not establsihed that.

	Depends on what you mean by "with finality". Science does'nt do
	that. But what it does do is propound *logical* and *testable*
	models. Scriptures do nothing of the sort.

	FFT





Newsgroups: soc.culture.indian
From: csmenta@sunvis1.vislab.olemiss.edu (Muralidhar Menta)
Subject: Re: BJP Governments Thrown Out. Its Good! Its Good!
Organization: Mississippi State University
Date: Wed, 16 Dec 1992 20:50:01 GMT

There is nothing good or nothing great that is going to be acheived by dismissing democratically elected governments.the people can decide that in the next elections.even if elections are held now i don't think the bjp will lose.the p.m has come under pressure and reacted so.
From: mazhar@cs.arizona.edu (Mazhar N Mohammed)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.indian
Subject: Re: ...... Hyderabadi muslims ........
Date: 16 Dec 92 20:05:54 GMT

In article <1992Dec16.150149.4032@news.clarkson.edu>, rajat@sunny3.che.clarkson.edu (Rajat Kapoor) writes:
# From article <28302@optima.cs.arizona.edu>, by mazhar@cs.arizona.edu (Mazhar N Mohammed):
# # 
# # The only thing we have in common with lakhnawi muslims is urdu, and yes
# 
# 
# Correction : Hyderabadi Urdu
# 
# 
# A Lucknowite
# 
# 
# 
# # 

I said *common*
Hey if people out there speak hyderabadi urdu, I am flattered. 

Mazhar...
--

Newsgroups: soc.culture.indian
From: rrp@cbnewsg.cb.att.com (rakesh.r.patel)
Subject: Re: Do we need a religion?
Organization: AT&T
Distribution: usa
Date: Sat, 19 Dec 1992 14:27:34 GMT

In article <1gtcvvINN5s0@phakt.usc.edu> fafat@phakt.usc.edu (Vijay Fafat) writes:
>Worma writes:
>>	There is no such thing as reality according to science. 
>                                 ^^^^^^^^^
>	You refer to objective, classical reality. 
>
>>	Because reality is immutable and science is incapable of going behind 
>>	the mutable. 
>
>	Don't throw around vague statements like this. First, *define*
>	your reality. Second, tell me *why* you assert so positively that
>	it's immutable.
>
>
>>	The proofs of science are based on 'virtual reality', i.e., 
>>	the reality which exist within the context of seeker's sense
>>	instruments. 
>
>	you might be amused to know that Science does talk about a virtual
>	reality. However, that's not the one you're talking about. You're
>	talking about "operationally defined" reality and recent experiments
>	indicate that it's the only kind of reality.
>	
>
>>	For example, for a 'color blind' person, there is 
>>	no color and for a blind person there is no shape. 
>
>	The second example is wrong. He can feel. And the first one is specious
>	since you're assuming that there is a concept like "colour" which
>	can be defined by atleast one person (who's not blind). But if everyone
>	was blind, the concept would lose meaning and cannot be said to "exist"
>
>
>>	a blind person. I use science to seek 'virtual reality'. For 
>>	seeking 'real truth', I use religion.
>                ^^^^^^^^^^^
>
>	Define.  And on what basis do you say that Religion achieves whatever 
>	you claim it achieves? I can very well say whatever *I* say is the
>	real truth. Prove me wrong.
>
>
>>	In other words, a blind person can never realize shape just based
>>	on scientific proofs, whereas, a blind person can realize shape
>>	based on religion. Yoga is such a religious technology.
>
>	bulldung. I can just turn around your statement and say religion is
>	bunkum. You give no proof, I give no proof.
>
>
>>	Personally, I insist on 'realizable truth'. 'Proof' depends on belief.
>                                                    ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>	Like your belief that velocities should add and sun should go
>	around the earth. No, "proof" does'nt depend on plain belief. There's
>	a lot more to proofs.
>	
>>	Proof is good for only 'understanding' the truth. Other than that
>>	it has no useful purpose.
>
>	No. Proof is *necessary* to show that what you call "truth" satisfies
>	the definition of "truth". Otherwise, there are yellow elephants in
>	Africa who build invisible pyramids. Accept that without proof because
>	that's the ultimate truth.
>	
>	FFT
>
>
>
>

How many angels can fit on the head of pin, or a pinhead? Give me brake with
this pedantry.

Rakesh Patel
Newsgroups: soc.culture.indian
From: fafat@phakt.usc.edu (Vijay Fafat)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.indian
Subject: Re: Do we need a religion?
Date: 18 Dec 1992 22:06:25 -0800
Organization: University of Southern California, Los Angeles, CA
Distribution: usa
NNTP-Posting-Host: phakt.usc.edu

Worma writes:
>>	I doubt if Worma would find Kant reasonable since by Kant's logic,
>>	his "vedic theories" would fall flat.
>> 
>>	FFT
>
>	As if Kant has exclusive right or hold on knowledge!!! 

		If you would just take some more time off from sweeping
		DEC, you'll see that I say nothing of the sort. Satya 
		suggested you read Kant which I said you can't. Neither
		Kant nor *.* upanishads have any exclusive right to
		anything until they can prove what they *speculate*


>	No wonder
>	the processes of nature are mechanical, otherwise, the knowledge
>	would have stayed with Christianity, the religion of Kant.
    
	you do not have to be so uppity tight about your own religion. If
	anything, you should see the morass which you find yourself in (and
	I don't disassociate myself) after the great culture we had. All
	the "knowledge" has come to a naught. And lest someone think this
	is just Indian-bashing, it is'nt. It's bashing this sort of smug
	contentment with past laurels. What we need is more of seeing the
	present than what probably never was. There have been great
	civilizations across the planet. The Mayans, the Sumerians, the 
	Egyptians, the Greeks,the Chinese,... it's time we gave up the
	self-important attitude about having the greatest civilization. Nothing
	wrong in being proud about the culture but the arrogance should have
	no place there. I hope atleast this would make you see what I'm arguing
	against.

	FFT
From: verma@pfeast.enet.dec.com (Virendra Verma)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.indian
Subject: Re: progress in India!
Date: 18 Dec 92 01:02:46 GMT
Organization: Digital Equipment Corporation


In article <1gqietINNs5q@lns554.TN.CORNELL.EDU>, vj@lns598.tn.cornell.edu (Vivek Jain) writes...
> 
> 
>When RG sided with the fundamentalists in the Shahbano case, it was said that
>he took India back to the 13th century. With the demolition of the mosque, I 
>guess you could say we went back to the 16th century. So, in a way, we have 
>made tremendous progress (300 yrs. worth) in less than a decade. At this rate 
>we will get to the 21st century quite shortly.
> 

	Thanks to BJP/VHP revolution for such a remarkable progress.

	- a BJP/VHP fanatic.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------
Disclaimer:
I express my views under the freedom of speech guaranteed by the constitution
of the United States of America. My employer is not responsible for any
damage or damages caused as a result of my writings. I use my employer's
facilities for a cost of putting extra two hours per week.

WORMA, the WORMS charmer and WORM Abater.

-- Virendra Verma
------------------------------------------------------------------------- 
Newsgroups: soc.culture.indian,soc.culture.pakistan,soc.culture.bangladesh
From: arkay@leland.Stanford.EDU (Abdur Khan)
Subject: A SPECIAL RAG NEWS FLASH --- BABRI MOSQUE
Organization: DSG, Stanford University, CA 94305, USA
Date: Mon, 14 Dec 92 04:07:14 GMT

************************************************************************

		THE RAG 

*************************************************************************

		PAKISTAN'S ALLEGED INVOLVEMENT

From an unconfirmed source in the Indian Intelligence, a wing of the
pakistani military intelligence was involved in the Babri Mosque destruction.
Pakistani commando's dressed as brahmins in safron robes, incited innocent
hindues into religious fervour.  The safronned pakistani's mission
was to weaken India's secularism and start a muslim secessionist movement,
centred in  Rampur, a city in UP( a stronghold of the rohillas). 
Also as an aside the pro-democratic movement started by Benazir was diffused.

Our source was befundled by the news, but was adamant that after much thought
it had to be true, because Pakistan has been responsible for all the problems
faced by India. 


******************************************************************************
editor-in-chief sahibzada rafay khan
editor Tanveer Mohd.
reporter farrukh shah khan
	 jehangir hashmi
*******************************************************************************
Newsgroups: soc.culture.indian
From: prabhak@giga.cs.umn.edu (Satya Prabhakar)
Subject: Re: India -PVNR Indignant About Pak's Attempts to Policitize Ayodhya issue
Organization: University of Minnesota, Minneapolis, CSci dept.
Date: Sat, 12 Dec 1992 19:12:22 GMT

(Chukka Srinivas) writes:
>>Interesting it is to note that the combined Islamic heart bleeds profusely
>>over the destruction of an inanimate mosque, but not for the millions of 
>>their starving  Islamic brethren in Somalia.
>
>>Satya Prabhakar
>
> Very well said.  
> Forget about Somalia. Even within thier own countries,
> they do not have either respect or value an ordinary
> muslim's life.

I do not share this belief. My only point is that the Organization
for Islamic Countries (OIC) gets all worked up over symbolic affronts
to their faith and not over *real* foul misery of their brethren are
undergoing in Somalia. What did OIC really do over the last 2 years
for Somalians and over the last year in Bosnia?

Perhaps my point would be blown to smithereens if OIC writes a check
to US for the entire cost of Operation Restore Hope!

--
______________________________________________________________
I hate sig files, particularly ones that refer to themselves!
Newsgroups: soc.culture.indian
From: ssr39687@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (Cannibal Hannibal)
Subject: Travel Agent List (STOP! STOP!)
Organization: University of Illinois at Urbana
Date: Tue, 15 Dec 1992 03:32:45 GMT

Please stop sending me the list. Thanks to all who responded. 
Newsgroups: soc.culture.indian,alt.culture.us.asian-indian
From: rrp@cbnewsg.cb.att.com (rakesh.r.patel)
Subject: Howard Stern
Organization: AT&T
Date: Tue, 15 Dec 1992 14:00:43 GMT



Bababooey!  Bababooey!



Rakesh Patel

Xref: sparky soc.culture.indian:40584 soc.culture.pakistan:18064
From: hyder@cs.utexas.edu (Syed Irfan Hyder)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.indian,soc.culture.pakistan
Subject: Re: Who's doing the killings...
Date: 13 Dec 1992 10:43:20 -0600
Organization: CS Dept, University of Texas at Austin
NNTP-Posting-Host: pageboy.cs.utexas.edu

In article <1992Dec13.053710.10311@sol.cs.wmich.edu> sherwani@sol.cs.wmich.edu (Naveed Sherwani) writes:
>
> I am sorry, but you seem paranoid in this article. I dont see any
>connection between 
>my statement that 
>
>  "I dont follow any religion"
>
> and your statment that 
>  "I follow religion of self-profit."

Sorry. My posts are "never" intended at the person to whose
post I am replying.  I think my post made it absolutely
clear that  I was only referring to the religion of non-religion
 whose prophets were  Adam Smith and Karl Marx and the followers 
of those religions. 

If you are not among their follower, then there
is nothing to be upset. 

P.S.

Please go back to the posting and you will see that I never
used the sentence

>  "I follow religion of self-profit."

In fact I didn't even use the pronouns "I" or "You".
For refreshing the memory, I was only in the third person
as seen below:
> Let's also include in this list of religions, the religion of
> self-profit or the religion of non-religion.
> This is the religion whose prophet was
> Adam Smith. Of course, there was another religion
> whose prophet was Karl Marx. Although, the latter religion is
> now even extinct in its birth place, the other is still out there.