From: ahmed-shakil@CS.YALE.EDU (Shakil Waiz Ahmed)
Subject: Re: Islam and Science (was Re: Islam & Rushdie -- Icarus.)
Organization: Yale University, Department of Computer Science
Date: Mon, 28 Sep 1992 20:49:27 GMT


In article <44982@skye.dcs.ed.ac.uk>, arshad@dcs.ed.ac.uk (Arshad Mahmood) writes:
> In article <1992Sep22.020156.27706@cs.yale.edu> ahmed-shakil@CS.YALE.EDU (Shakil Waiz Ahmed) writes:

> >Sigh... Let's try this again.  Your original point was that Islam has
> >no place in this day and age of computers and superconductors.  Not
> >surprisingly, you have failed to show why.

> >Now let us look closer at what you say above for the Nth time, but
> >still fail to justify.  Suppose you have a set of beliefs A which you
> >do not question.  For example, I presume you operate under the
> >assumptions that you have to live, you have to die, and that you have
> >to go to the bathroom at some point, right?  If the answer is "no,"
> >this could get quite amusing... :) Good, now that is your set of
> >beliefs A.  Do you question them?  Probably not. ;) Does this hinder
> >scientific progress?  I'll leave that one to your imagination...

> >Clearly, the point is that this set of beliefs A need not in any way
> >interfere with scientific progress.  In fact, as in this case, if one
> >of the beliefs in A is to pursue scientific research, your point
> >becomes totally moot.

> Come now Mr. Shakil, you are not surely suggesting that all Islamic tenets
> and beliefs are about such trifling matters as my bowel movements.  

Er, no, I don't believe I implied that above.  I was drawing what is
known as an "analogy."  As far as the triviality of your bowel
movements go, I hardly think the net is the appropriate forum for such
discussion -- you may want to consult a proctologist.  :-)

> The question concerns when beliefs contradict, let us say that you are a
> researcher in developmental biology. Would you be willing to experiment on
> embryos, the result of which may be the death of potential human beings.
> How do you decide on such matters, would you say my religion has tenet "A",
> the consequence of which is that I must not perform such research. Or are
> you willing to say, what exactly are the advantages of such research, on the
> one hand it may save millions of lives on the other it concerns how we 
> humans percieve ourselves and others. 

Well, why don't you tell us what the Qur'an has to say on this matter,
and then we'll talk.  

> >Say what?  Let's look at some basic logic here.  Suppose we have statement
> >A, which says, "You can eat starfruit and pomegranates as long as you
> >don't get sick."  And we have statement B which says, "eating
> >pomegranates always makes you sick."  What does this imply?  Applying
> >just a tad bit of logic will indicate that this implies you can only
> >eat starfruit.
> 
> Not so fast, your logic statements would work out to
> 
> 	UntilNotSick(can eat starfruit) and
> 	UntilNotSick(can eat pomegranates) and
> 	AlwaysSick(eat pomegranates).
> 	
> There is an obvious contradiction here.

You deliberately misunderstand my words.  When I say, "eat starfruit
and pomegranates as long as you don't get sick," I mean "eat starfruit
and pomegranates *if* they don't make you sick."  Understand that
sentence properly, and your paraphrasing, like all else you say,
becomes pointless.

-- Shakil