From: uds@parvathi.cs.wayne.edu (Seetamraju)
Subject: Re: I HATE TAMILS (2)
Organization: Wayne State University, Detroit, MI
Date: Tue, 18 Aug 1992 22:50:35 GMT


Sivaprasad has brilliantly brought out the two-timing nature of
those who `defend' tamilnadu's isolation from india in general.

Basically, realize this : If tamilians hate to learn AN EXTRA language
because of hidden implications, and if that's ok : then how come
a bunch of people's desire to be ruled in their own language is
something to be sneered about ? eh ?  This was a thread I started
a few months ago, regarding madras `legally and morally' belonging to AP.

There is nothing wrong in expressing what you wrote Mr. Parthasarathy,
but expect such responses every time you say such garbage...

I liked this particular statement by siva :
>. I find it hypocritical
>       for one to be against linguistic states and yet oppose Hindi.

As for Hindi, a huge percentage of telugus can pronounce
the word hindi correctly. Can I or you say the same about even 
ALL educated tamilians ?  Another simple point.  just to
illustrate, Maine Pyar Kiya ran in Hindi, all over AP.
What about TN ?

Seetamraju Udaya Bhaskar Sarma
(email : seetam @ ece7 . eng . wayne . edu)




In article <1992Aug18.160933.9562@uoft02.utoledo.edu> vprasad@uoft02.utoledo.edu writes:
>In article <41552@ogicse.ogi.edu>, partha@mse.cse.ogi.edu (R. Parthasarathy)
>writes:
>>
>> is right or wrong is to be discussed later. No, Tamils are not the ones
>> who campaigned for linguistic division of the whole nation. Ever heard
>> of Potti Sriramulu? He was a Telugu speaking man. He fasted to death
>> demanding a state based on Telugu language. Jawaharlal Nehru, who until
>> then opposed such a division, decided to give in - AndhraPradesh was
>> formed from the erstwhile "Madras state". That Tamil Nadu formed based
>> on Tamil language was only a consequence. Not all Tamilians, but a group
>> of men under EVR demanded a Dravida Nadu from the British even before
>> our independence. Such a state was supposed to consist of the four southern
>> states. [source: MJ Akbar's "India the Siege Within].
>
>	I find it very irritating that people blame Andhra Pradesh for being
>	the first linguistic state in the nation and thus "setting a chain
>	of linguistic carvings of the country". And Potti Sriramulu is being
>	very unfairly criticized. Ever think of the logic behind his demand? 
>	Apparently not.
>
>	Before the formation of the linguistic state of Andhra Pradesh, Madras
>	was the main capital of a vast region of Madras Presidency, which 
>	included the present four states of AP, TN, Karnataka and Kerala. All
>	the administrative machinery was run in English, and *Tamil*. A common
>	person from interior Andhra, who had to deal with the administration
>	day in and day out, it was quite irritating to have everything done in
>	a language which is *alien* to him. My own grandfather, was a victim of
>	such a situation. He had a property dispute with his kinfolk, and the
>	case after being decided in his favor in a local court, was appealed
>	in a higher court - where else? Madras. So, now the venue shifted to 
>	Madras - everything was done in Tamil; it so happened that he ended up 
>	paying for translation services as much as he did to his lawyer, the 
>	sum total of which has *exceeded* the value of the property in dispute.
>	And my grandfather was *not* ordinary rural uneducated person. He was 
>	a "sidhdhanthi" in Telugu, well versed with all the vedas and was a 
>	pundit. He was *very* fluent in Hindi too. If such was the fate for an
>	*educated* and *upper-caste* person, don't you see the grave
>	administrative injustice that would have been meted out to common folk,
>	*other* than Tamils in the erstwhile Madras presidency?? Needless to
>	say, my grandfather was extremely supportive of linguistic division of
>	the states. So were many common folk - Potti Sriramulu just made these
>	mute voices public. This was quite akin to present day sentiment about
>	Hindi in Tamilnadu, if you care to understand. I find it hypocritical
>	for one to be against linguistic states and yet oppose Hindi.
>
>	Secondly, I find it offensive to equate Potti Sriramulu to EVR. EVR
>	demanded a **separate and independent** nation consisting of present
>	4 south indian states, with his screwed-up idea of Dravidians and non
>	Dravidians, quite conveniently ignoring the commonality of Indianness
>	between us. Potti demanded a separate linguistic *state*, which is to
>	be still a *part of the Indian union* and NOT independence. To say
>	Potti's call for a separate identity of Telugus in the form of a 
>	linguistic state and EVR's call for secession (not unlike present day
>	Kashmiris) are one and the same, is an *insult* to all Telugus and
>	Potti's patriotism.
>
>> Looks like they haven't gone much into the south. Telugus have been ruled
>> by the Congress for a majority of their time. Until Congress ruled Tamil
>> Nadu, Hindi was being taught in schools. Also Hindi is spoken in Muslim
>> dominated areas in Andhra Pradesh like Hyderabad, Machlipatnam other
>> regions where Muslims ruled ages ago. Try talking in Hindi in rural
>> AndhraPradesh. You'll get the same response as when talking in Tamil
>> in Bihar.
>
>	Mr. Parthasarathy, you will be quite surprised if I tell you that if
>	you ask something in Hindi in interior Andhra, you *won't* be getting
>	a blank stare. My experience is limited to some West Godavari's small
>	towns, but people there are not so ignorant about Hindi. Any school
>	kid can answer back in Hindi, albeit with a text-book language and
>	very bad grammar, but successful in getting the idea across. If you
>	think that this has somehow diluted our Telugu culture or infer that
>	we do not appreciate our language that much, you must be mistaken.
>
>	Learning Hindi language continues right upto 10th std. after which it
>	is optional for you take *any* language, but must choose atleast one.
>	You get to choose a *first* language, *second* language and a *third* 
>	language (Telugu, Hindi and English in my case). The emphasis on the 
>	first language is *quite* heavy compared to second and third languages.
>	[Well, English was also my medium of instruction, so the std. of 
>	English taught was comparable to Telugu. But if your medium of
>	instruction is Telugu, this needn't be the case] Quite often, the 
>	tenth std. book of the second language is the same as fifth std. book 
>	of the first language. If you choose Telugu and Hindi in that order, 
>	in your 10th std. you will be learning as much Hindi as a person 5 
>	years jr. to you is learning in Hindi heartland, for a comparison. 
>	Contrast this with the complete do away of Hindi if one chooses to, 
>	as in TN. Placing emphasis on one's own language and learning of 
>	another language (Hindi) need not be mutually exclusive as TN 
>	administrators seem to think. I for one, am extremly happy with the
>	present education policy in AP.
>> 
>> I am getting tired of these views. When will it all end?
>> 
>> Partha sarathy
>
>	Tired of different opinions than yours eh?
>
>	Siva Prasad.				vprasad@uoft02.utoledo.edu


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