From: tsarcho@DFKI.UNI-KL.DE (Panagiotis Tsarchopoulos)
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.hellas
Subject: Re: Makedoviko kai n "apeiln polemoy"
Date: 17 Nov 92 14:16:15 GMT
Reply-To: Panagiotis Tsarchopoulos <tsarcho@DFKI.UNI-KL.DE>
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU
Comments: To: HELLAS%UGA.BITNET@rusvm1.rus.uni-stuttgart.de

Merika apo ta parakatw mallon einai apanthsh se ena proswpiko email
pou esteila ston Lewnida - ypo0etw oti egw eimai o Panagiwths ston opoio
anaferetai.

In article <HELLAS%92111507054643@BROWNVM.BROWN.EDU>,
   IVRISSIMTZIS@VAX1.COMPUTER-CENTRE.BIRMINGHAM.AC.UK writes:
|> H Ellada exei isn av oxi megalytern ey0yvn sth diogkwsn toy zntnmatos: Kat'
|> arxnv estiase tnv politikn sto 0ema toy ovomatos, kati gia to opoio ntav
|> dyskolo va apoktnsei ereismata kai epipleov stereitai plnroys tekmnriwsns.
 Apo
|> poy ki ws poy to "YR of Macedonia" ntav epi 45 xrovia avekto apo
 "e0vikofroves"
|> kybervnseis? Kai pws va arvn0oyme oti n perioxn votia twv Skopiwv anhkei
|> gewgrafika stnv  eyrytern Makedovia (Makedovia toy Bardarioy, toy Aimoy kai
 toy
|> Aigaioy)?
|>

Kammia antirrhsh gia ta 45 xronia siwphs peri tou 0ematos. Mhn ksexnas omws
oti teleiws diaforetikh htan oloklhrh h gewpolitikh katastash oso
kairo yphrxe h eniaia Giougkoslabia. Eksallou kata thn gnwmh mou
den yphrxe kindynos allaghs twn yparxontwn synorwn mia kai kaneis
den e0ete tetoio 0ema prin to telos tou psyxrou polemou, sthn Eyrwph.
O kindynos aytos omws twra yparxei giati h metabatikh epoxh
pou pername 0a teleiwsei kapote kai ayto pou 0a afhsei pisw ths
einai oi neoi sysxetismoi dynamewn, oi nees isorropies kai -diolou api0ano -
ta nea synora. To oti h perioxh notia twn Skopiwn anhkei gewgrafika sthn
 Makedonia den leei kai tipota epeidh to onoma enos kratous prosdiorizei
poly perissotera pragmata apo apla kai mono thn gewgrafikh perioxh sthn opoia
anhkei. H Ellada kai opoiodhpote balkaniko kratos anhkoun sthn
gewgrafikh perioxh twn Balkaniwn. Pisteyeis oti h metonomasia ths Elladas
h' opoioudhpote shmerinou h' mellontikou kratous ths Balkanikhs xersonhsou
se "Dhmokratia twn Balkaniwn" 0a ginotan eykola apodekth apo ta ypoloipa
krath?? Idiws an ayth h metonomasia synodeyotan apo analogo syntagma kai
propaganda gia apeley0erwsh tou balkanikou laou pou stenazei katw apo ta
desma diaforwn ka0estwtwn?? Bebaia den yparxei "balkanikos" laos, swsta, alla
oute "makedonikos" yparxei. Den 0a htan olh ayth h ypo0esh
enas monimos aposta0eropoihtikos paragontas sthn perioxh??? 0a htan.
Akribws to idio 0a einai kai ena kratos me to onoma Makedonia.


|> Deytero, tnrei adiallaktn stasn, afoy arveitai ka0e ap' ey0eias
 diapragmateysn
|> oxi movo tns ovomasias, alla kai toy snmavtikoteroy problnmatos poy afora to
|> Syvtagma toy kratidioy, me toys Skopiavoys. Apotelesma? Ta faivomeva
 amoibaias
|> drasns-avtidrasns poy odngnsav s' aytn thv adieksodn krisn kai divoyv edafos
|> stoys ekstremistes. (Kai dev eivai movo to VMRO me safn boylgarikn
 ypostnriksn,
|> poy steketai apo tn mia meria, alla kai oi dikoi mas oi "pemptofalaggites"
 apo
|> tnv alln). Av prosekses, Pavagiwtn, se teleytaia dnmoskopnsn (prosfatn <E>)
 mia
|> megaln pleiopsnfia twv Skopiavwv 0eloyv  thv eirnvikn syvyparksh me tnv
 Ellada
|> stnv perioxn kai movo 17% dnlwse oti to evdiaferei to ovoma toy kratoys toys.
|>

To oti diapragmateyseis ginontai einai mallon fws fanari Lewnida.
Alla fysika den ginontai me tympanokrousies, mallon pisw apo thn plath mas
ginontai kai den eimai kai toso asiodoksos gia thn diapragmateytikh deinothta
twn dikwn mas diapragmateytwn (blepe to efeyrhma-apath ths diplhs onomasias)
Thn dhmoskophsh den thn exw ypopsh mou. Pantws to VMRO exei mou fainetai
gyrw sto 30% -den eimai sigouros ia to pososto- kai exei ka0ara epi0etikes
kai epektatikes 0eseis. Opws elega kai sto proswpiko email mou, ka0e karta
 melous
tou VMRO exei panw zwgrafismeno ton xarth ths megalhs Makedonias , fysika
kai h ellhnikh einai mesa.(Phgh: Efhmerida "DIE ZEIT")

|> Trito, gia tnv istoria mas... Egw akoma, dev tnv ema0a tnv istoria mas kai as
|> opsovtai aytoi poy tnv kseroyv. Oyte mporw va syllabw ti sxesn mporei va exw
|> egw kai emeis oi "Makedoves" me ekeivoys toys Makedoves meta apo 2000 xrovia.
|> Ta xrovia toy M. Aleksavdroy kai toy Aristoteln exoyv kyriws akadnmaiko
|> evdiaferov snmera. Kai prepei va exoyv. Kai kavevas sobaros istorikos
 meletntns
|> dev pei0etai -kai ayto moy eivai arketo- apo tis kits parelaseis Skopiavwv
 kai
|> nmeterwv me perikefalaies kai dorata. Allwste o  Gligorof to dnlwse: "Dev
|> exoyme kamia skesn me thv Arxaia Ellnvikn Makedovia. Eimaste eva Slabiko
 e0vos
|> poy zei sthv perioxn".
|>

Den pisteyw oti yparxoun kai polloi an0rwpoi ston kosmo pou mporoun
na kayxh0oun oti KSEROUN thn ellhnikh istoria. An emeis san Ellhnes exoume
kapoia sxesh me ekeinous tous Ellhnes pou zhsan sthn perioxh
prin apo 2000 xronia, tote safws exoume sxesh kai me ekeinous tous Makedones
- Ellhnes htan ki aytoi - pou zhsan prin apo 2000 xronia sthn perioxh.
Kai pera apo to akadhma.i.ko endiaferon,
einai h ISTORIA enos akoma zwntanou laou ayto gia to opoio milame.
Kai mia kai den exoume kai polla na pros0esoume san sygxronoi Ellhnes
to kalyteo pou mporoume na kanoume einai na diafylaksoume ayto pou
yparxei, para na arxisoume na dinoume kommmatia deksia aristera.

Oso gia tis dhlwseis tou Gkligkorof, tis akyrwnoun sthn praksh tosa
alla pragmata me kalytero paradeigma thn yio0ethsh enos emblhmatos
twn arxaiwn Makedonwn san emblhma ths xwras. Mprosta s'ayth thn OLOKA0ARH
praksh sfeterismou, oi dhlwseis tou Gkligkorof apodeiknyontai staxth sta matia.
Afou eiste Slaboi, kyrioi, kai kammia sxesh den exete me thn Arxaia Ellhnikh
Makedonia ti skata 0elete na deiksete m' ayto to sygkekrimeno emblhma????

|> Tetarto, se mia epoxn oikovomikns oloklnrwsns stnv Eyrwpn, ti 0esn va  'xoyv
 oi
|> perixarakseis syvorwv? H ti snmasia n yparksn 'h n avyparksia evos kratidioy
 me
|> to A n to B ovoma? To ksepndnma tetoiwv kratwv kai kratidiwv  movo sa mia
|> proskairn kai mallov avaxrovistikn parev0esn moy faivetai, avamesa stis
|> isopedwtikes allages poy symbaivoyv stnv Eyrwpn.

Anaxronistikh paren0esh safws, alla gia to proskairh den eimai kai toso
sigouros. Ti ginetai an apodeixtei kapws pio makroxronh?? Pisteyeis
oti me toso aima pou xy0hke tas teleytaia 4-5 xronia anamesa se pollous laous
 ths
Eyrwphs einai eykolo na ksanasmiksoun, na poun perasmena ksexasmena,
as arxisoume h' as synexisoume oloi mazi twra thn oloklhrwsh???

|>
|> Pempto, o polemos, Avtwvn, dev mporei va eivai "esxatn lysn" giati aploystata
|> dev apotelei lysn. Akoma ki av mia mera kapoioi apofasisoyv va "perpatnsoyme"
|> ws ta Skopia, ti 0a petyxoyme? Kai ti 0a givei meta? 0a fygoyme, 0a meivoyme,
|> 0a kapsoyme, ti?

O polemos DEN apotelei lysh se KAMMIA periptwsh. Lysh apotelei mia energhtikh,
dioratikh kai makropro0esmh ekswterikh politikh.

|>
|> Lewvidas
|> Birmingham
|>
|> PS: Kai twra gia kapoioys geloioys "e0vikofroves", apo dw kai kei, poy makria
|> apo tn fwtia milave gia tn fwtia (poy 0a kapsei alloys bebaiws), va mnv
|> arxisoyme ta gamostayridia Kyriakatika.


Ta "Aera kai tous fagame" klp, einai to idio katastrofika me mia ypotonikh
kai moirolatrikh stash, pou dystyxws mexri twra thrhse h Ellada. As elpisoume
oti den 0a pame apo to ena akro sto allo.

Xairetw
Panagiotis.
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU