HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
Subject: Re: Sergiu Celibidache
From: dgold@basso.actrix.gen.nz (Dale Gold)
Date: 7 Sep 92 11:08:40 PST
 <1992Sep2.180530.15315@spang.Camosun.BC.CA> <dgold.0jg0@basso.actrix.gen.nz><1992Sep6.021238.460@spang.Camosun.BC.CA>
Organization: New Zealand Symphony Orchestra

Quoted from <1992Sep6.021238.460@spang.Camosun.BC.CA> by dbarker@spang.Camosun.BC.CA (Deryk Barker):
> In article <dgold.0jg0@basso.actrix.gen.nz> dgold@basso.actrix.gen.nz (Dale Gold) writes:
>>Quoted from <1992Sep2.180530.15315@spang.Camosun.BC.CA> by dbarker@spang.Camosun.BC.CA (Deryk Barker):
>>> In article <CB.92Aug31115103@tamarack13.timbuk> cb@tamarack13.timbuk (Chris Brewster) writes:
>>>>
>>>>I've been interested in Celibidache mainly because of his reputation.
>>> 
>>>  he had a dreadful experience recording the Brahms Violin
>>> Concerto (with Ida Haendel) in around 1956 for SMI I think, and vowed
>>> never to return to the studio again, and I don't believe he has. 
>>
>>I have to laugh.  I just played with Ida Haendel a few weeks ago, and we're
>>talking about one difficult woman!  [...]
>>
>>Could it be that the unusual career of the legendary Celibadache was begun
>>as a result of an experience with this unusual woman? :-) :-)
> 
> I understood that it was the recording company - and maybe the
> engineers - that he had the difficult time with.
>
> Deryk Barker, Computer Science Dept., Camosun College, Victoria B.C.

I'm sure that you're right.  I just couldn't resist!   However, I'm still
eager to hear what it is that makes Celibadache's performances so
remarkable...

Cheers,
Dale
--
- dgold@basso.actrix.gen.nz
- Korokoro, New Zealand
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
From: rwh@visual.com (Rob Holzel)
Subject: Wagner Weekend
Organization: Visual
Date: Tue, 8 Sep 92 12:25:10 GMT

Can *anything* in music rival the gorgeous quintet in Act III
of "Die Meistersinger"?   Can anything rival the EMI Karajan
recording with Helen Donath?  Well, maybe something conducted
by Sinopoli with Cheryl Studer would be a nice start...  :-) 

Talk about desert island music.  This whole work is astonishing.

Sorry, I just had to get that off my chest.

Rob
From: dmnhieu@riemann.math.purdue.edu (Duy-Minh NHIEU)
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
Subject: recommandation for good performances of choral works.
Date: 8 Sep 92 02:44:06 GMT
Reply-To: dmnhieu@riemann.math.purdue.edu (Duy-Minh NHIEU)
Organization: Purdue University

Hello world:

   If I were to study performances on choral music (ie: What constitute a good
choir/or choral group?), and I want to go by examples, what would you recommand?(I list here a list of some group that I know of, please add to it and/or correct me if I am wrong)

     big groups:  The King's college choir
                  The Cambridge singers (John Rutter)
                  The Montevedi choir (together with the English Baroque
                                       soloist, conducted by John Elliot 
                                       Gardiner)

                  The Robert Shaw choral
                  The Westminster choir.

    small groups:
            
                  The kings' singers
From: jdhill@star-trek.bbn.com (Jack D. Hill)
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
Subject: Re: OPERA: Ghosts of Versailles
Date: 15 Sep 92 17:58:44 GMT
Reply-To: jdhill@BBN.COM (Jack D. Hill)
Organization: Bolt Beranek and Newman Inc., Cambridge MA
NNTP-Posting-Host: archive.bbn.com

In article <92259.084514U58402@uicvm.uic.edu> <U58402@uicvm.uic.edu> writes:
>1. What else would you recommend by Teresa Stratas? I know she has a
>couple of albums of Kurt Weill songs, but I am generally leery of
>classically trained singers performing what are, to my mind, more pop
>oriented material.

The two Weill records are simply amazing. The first, "The Unknown Kurt Weill",
is voice and piano and the second, whose name escapes me is voice with
orchestra. For me, Stratas is the supreme interpreter of these songs. She
certainly has a set of pipes but she's perfectly willing to make her voice
sound harsh or downright ugly if it suits the music. I would also like to
politely disagree with your comment that Weill is simply "pop oriented
material". His songs are just as well crafted as lieder of Schubert, Schumann
or Brahms.

Jack
From: mvalinis@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (Michael J Valinis)
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
Subject: Re: obscure but good
Date: 15 Sep 92 22:55:21 GMT
Organization: The Ohio State University

This isn't obscure if you're into this kind of thing, but I find that most 
"classical" music lovers are woefully ignorant of a sizeable body of excellent 
music by major composers.... the concert or symphonic band repertoire.  Now 
that Mercury has rereleased a number of its old Living Presence recordings 
(great sound even by today's standards) a number of excellent performances by 
the Eastman Wind Ensemble under Frederick Fennell are again available.  My 
"must" list:

  Percy Grainger: Lincolnshire Posy
  Vincent Persichetti: Symphony for Band (Sym. no. 6)
  Gordon Jacob: William Byrd Suite
  William Walton: Crown Imperial
  Robert Russell Bennett: Symphonic Songs for Band
  Gustav Holst: Hammersmith: Prelude and Scherzo, Op.52

More recently recorded by Fennell, with the Cleveland Symphonic Winds on 
Telarc:

  Gustav Holst: First Suite in E Flat, Op.28, No. 1
                Second Suite in F, Op. 28, No. 2

There are also several excellent recordings of the original band arrangement of 
Vaughan William's English Folk Song Suite available.... much better than the 
wimpy arrangement for orchestra that you occasionally hear on PBS stations.  
The best of the above are the Grainger, jacob, and three Holst pieces.  If 
you're not familiar with this music, or have some preconceptions you wouldn't 
mind having shaken, check them out.

.....these recommendations courtesy of an enthusiastic euphonium player!!!
"
-- 
=>   Michael J. Valinis   -=+{*}+=-   mvalinis@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu   <=
+>=>     "It's going to be fun to see how long the meek can keep the     <=<+
=>+>=>      earth after they inherit it.  -Frank McKinney Hubbard      <=<+<=
+>=>+>=>+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+<=<+<=<+
From: music@moravian.edu (Steve Heller)
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
Subject: Re: Shostakovich's Op. 87 Preludes and Fugues
Date: 16 Sep 92 02:06:35 GMT

In <1992Sep11.141622.2254@brandonu.ca> hanly@brandonu.ca writes:

>The original Melodiya recording of Shostakovich's Op. 87 Preludes
>and Fugues played by Tatjana Nikolajewa was released on 3
>Melodiya-Eurodisc lp's in the sixties. (Melodiya-Eurodisc 86-199 XK)
>There are notes in English and German by Heinrich Lindlar. 
>I certainly enjoy these works. I am surprised they are not played
>more often.

I have Roger Woodward's recording of the set. Absolutely blazing
performance!
-- 
*-------------------------------------------------------------------------*
#   "Who let all this riff-raff into the room?!?" - The Surrogate Band    #
# Work: music@moravian.edu  <#!AMIGA!#>  Home: moravian.edu!vortex!lothar #
#           [ All opinions are strictly MY OWN! Hands off! ]              #
*-------------------------------------------------------------------------*
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
From: mls@cbnewsm.cb.att.com (mike.siemon)
Subject: Re: Mahler's 5th Symphony by Solti and remastering CDs
Organization: AT&T
Distribution: usa
Date: Fri, 11 Sep 1992 23:48:17 GMT
Summary: thanks, Jon

In article <BuFDBM.BJu@news.udel.edu>, conrad@brahms.udel.edu (Jon Conrad)
writes:

> (That coruscating "Miraculous Mandarin" Suite is still about the best, I
> think; will RCA ever reissue it?)

> ...  It was probably a mismatch of orchestra and conductor, pure
> and simple, and I take no sides on who was "right" in the disagreement.
> Both parties were happier after the divorce.

That is well stated -- probably more just than I could do at this stage;
I was a young lad, still wishing for Reiner, and so little able to deal
with Martinon's strengths.  I was unaware that he'd done a recommendable
"Mandarin" -- I'll keep an eye out for this if it ever resurfaces.  The
"dubiousness" I was refering to was, as Jon suggests, the mismatch of
orchestral and directorial assumptions.  Nobody was happy.  Afterwards,
with Solti, they got something close enough to Reiner's traditions to be
able to get back down to work.   I hadn't thought about this before in
terms of the CSO's *limitations* -- but I think Jon has a point.
-- 
Michael L. Siemon		   "Oh, stand, stand at the window,
					As the tears scald and start;
mls@usl.com			   You shall love your crooked neighbor
standard disclaimer			With your crooked heart."
From: davidc@brahms.udel.edu (David Casper)
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
Subject: Monteverdi-Orfeo | Good English Translation?
Keywords: Orfeo,Monteverdi
Date: 12 Sep 92 20:28:16 GMT
Followup-To: davidc@brahms.udel.edu
Organization: University of Delaware

Could anyone direct me to a good English translation of Monteverdi's
Orfeo?  Better yet, does anyone have an ASCII text version on file?
Thanks in Advance,
David


-- 
David W. Casper
davidc@brahms.udel.edu
From: al@sys6626.bison.mb.ca (Haus Der Luge)
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
Subject: John Cage
Date: Wed, 02 Sep 92 11:34:55 CST
Organization: system 6626 BBS, Winnipeg MB

 
I believe it was Stravinsky who said (and I am unfortuneately forced to 
paraphrase):   'The epoch that directly proceeds the present is, 
temporarily, more distant from us than those of centuries ago'.
 
I personally believe that, in the long run, Cage will be remembered as 
possibly one of THE most important composers in history.
 
Haus Der Luge
 

;--- (Haus Der Luge) a user of sys6626, running waffle 1.64
;E-mail: al@sys6626.bison.mb.ca
;system 6626: 63 point west drive, winnipeg manitoba canada R3T 5G8
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
From: dl@indetech.com (David Lieberman)
Subject: Re: Re: Wagner Weekend and Karajan
Organization: Independence Technologies, Inc. Fremont, CA
Date: Fri, 11 Sep 1992 15:17:35 GMT

In article <1992Sep9.230508.10984@hemlock.cray.com> nad@cray.com (Ned Deily) writes:
>In article <27990093@otter.hpl.hp.com> sec@otter.hpl.hp.com (Simon Crouch) asks:
>>Is this a common effect? Those friends of mine who have experienced
>>Parsifal have all said it has had a deep effect on them.
>
>Parsifal had a deep effect on me.  The first time I attended a performance
>of it was a Met matinee after a very long Friday night (my lost college
>years).  Its magic began to work almost immediately.  Were it not
>for the redemptive power of the Grail and the "heil'gen Speer" I might
>still be dozing away in that orchestra seat.  Thus began a personal prejudice
>against Wagner's operas that took a long time to overcome (and, in Parsifal's
>case, not yet entirely).
>
>Ned
>nad@cray.com

You might want to check out Henry Miller's "Black Spring."  Attending
a Met performance of Parsifal in standing room the crush of bodies
and the glorious music suddenly inspire him in a way which is not
usually thought of as religious.

-- 
____*_  David Lieberman             dl@indetech.com
\  / /  Independence Technologies   {sun,uunet,pacbell}!indetech!dl
 \/ /   42705 Lawrence Place        FAX: 510 438-2034
  \/    Fremont, CA 94538           Voice: 510 438-2030
From: ted@dgbt.doc.ca (Ted Grusec)
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
Subject: Re: rec.music.classical FAQ
Date: 6 Sep 92 03:13:42 GMT
Organization: The Communications Research Centre

In article <BALDWIN.92Sep5204200@csservera.scs.usna.navy.mil> baldwin@csservera.scs.usna.navy.mil (J.D. Baldwin) writes:
>Gabe Wiener (gmw1@cunixa.cc.columbia.edu) writes:
>>Q6. What is that music in [insert TV show/movie here] ?
>>
>>The Shining			Music for Strings		Bartok
>
>Hey, I'm no expert, but didn't this film contain the middle movement
>of the "Concerto for Orchestra"?  I don't know what is meant by "Music
>for Strings"--maybe it's an alternate name for the same piece, maybe
>it's another piece I don't know that was also in the film.  Even if it's
>the same, it's probably easier to find as "Concerto for Orchestra."
>--

If "The Shining" referred to is the movie by Kubrick, with Jack
Nicholson and Shelley Duval, the dominant music throughout the film
was composed by Penderecki.

-- 
==========================================================================
Ted Grusec    Communications Research Centre    (Govt. of Canada, DOC)
 3701 Carling Ave., Ottawa, Ont.K2H 8S2, CANADA  Internet: ted@dgbt.doc.ca
  Compuserve: 73607,1576  (613) 998 2762   Fax (613) 993 8657
From: mgresham@dscatl.UUCP (Mark Gresham)
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
Subject: Re: re : recommendations for choral music
Date: 11 Sep 92 23:44:39 GMT
Article-I.D.: dscatl.46984
Reply-To: mgresham@dscatl.UUCP (Mark Gresham)
Organization: Digital Systems Co,  Atlanta, Ga

In article <1992Sep10.141210.23350@Princeton.EDU> roger@astro.princeton.edu (Roger Lustig) writes:
>Of course, every American high-school choir feels the need to tour,
>so sensitive listeners often avoid touring choirs on principle, but
>they *have* been heard in England.)

And good choirs should avoid tour companies on principle.
So many so-called "festivals" are, IMHO, bogus. (Some, which have
a reputation outside tour ads, are real.  But beware being booked
for a concert which is in the same area at the same time, which
has nothing to do with the festival.  Of course, choruses are
sometimes known to play that one too. While I sing with a chorus
which has legitimately sung at the Piccolo Spoleto Festival the
past four years, another local chorus which shall remain nameless
declares in their audition flyer that they will be singing at
Piccolo Spoleto this next June...yet the PSF folks have never heard
of them...apparantly booked themselves into a church at the same
time as the festival.)
  While in Philadelphia at the Chorus America conference (we're
talking about major conductors and managers from throughout N.
America) there was an International Choral Festival curiously
touted by the Visitor's Bureau...We'd never heard of it, nor were
they (the v.b.) apparantly aware of Chorus America's conference,
even though it's BASED in Philly.  The Festival (sic) was
organized by (you guessed it) a travel agency, and the choirs were
booked into places like shopping malls.  Now, my magazine staff
had come across a small notice of the alleged festival some
months before, but while we repeatedly tried to call the 800 phone
number listed, no one ever answered.
  So yes, I agree with Roger on the caution about touring choirs,
from both sides of the issue.  And the sad thing is that it makes
people shy away from legitimate touring groups whose names are not
household words, including good university ensembles.

If you plan on touring, do it yourself.  It's a pain, but you
often will place your choir's financial life at stake if you get
rooked by a tour company, and I've known of enough unhappy
post-tour groups to advise you that way.  And you will save money
overall.


Cheers,

--Mark Gresham

dscatl!mgresham@gatech.edu

==========================
From: tony@cns.nyu.edu (Tony Movshon)
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
Subject: Solti and Karajan (was: Re: Mahler's 5th Symphony by Solti ...)
Date: 8 Sep 92 03:38:31 GMT
Reply-To: tony@cns.nyu.edu
Organization: New York University

It's curious to see this old battle (well, from the '70s) rehashed here.
I have always been a partisan of Solti, whose energy and concentration
for me overcomes some of the lapses of taste to which he was prone early
in his career. I've always had more trouble with Karajan, who was often
to my ears too smooth by half.

HOWEVER, I have to add that these two, conducting their "home"
orchestras, have provided for me my finest experiences of orchestral
musicianship. Solti, on many occasions at Carnegie Hall with the CSO,
Karajan, more rarely. Two concerts that will remain in my memory for
the sheer virtuosity, concentration, and power of the orchestral playing
are a Solti/CSO Mahler 2 in the early '80s at Carnegie, and a Karajan/BPO
Bruckner 9 at Salzburg in 1973. I have heard many fine conductors and
orchestras in the last 20-odd years, but no one has ever, for me,
approached these two in their best repertory with their own players.

The fact that the two guys didn't greatly like each other (which I know
to be true) seems to me to be of no particular  consequence. However,
by the way, I have a record of some Russian music with Solti conducting
the BPO from the early '80s, so Karajan *did* allow GS to conduct his
band, at least in the studio. Knowing how Decca works, I would guess that
there were concerts associated with this recording.
---
					Tony Movshon

Internet:  movshon@nyu.edu

US Mail:   Howard Hughes Medical Institute
	   Center for Neural Science
	   New York University
	   4 Washington Place, room 809
	   New York, NY 10003
From: mgresham@dscatl.UUCP (Mark Gresham)
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
Subject: Re: John Cage
Date: 15 Sep 92 01:52:57 GMT
Reply-To: mgresham@dscatl.UUCP (Mark Gresham)
Organization: Digital Systems Co,  Atlanta, Ga

In article <1992Sep13.205732.14203@cgh.cgh.com> paul@cgh.cgh.com (Paul Homchick) writes:
[from a letter to the editor in New York Times...]
>  'What Mr. Rockwell omits to mention is that the Cage score of 1952
>was appropriated "note for note" from a composition of 1928 by Harold
>Acton called "Cornelian."  Acton's work is in prose and describes a
>musician who conducts performaces "consisting largely of silence," in
>the words of Humphrey Carpenter ("The Brideshead Generation").  This
>coincidence rases serious questions about genius, philosophical
>agendas, meditative awareness and other kinds of awareness as well.
>  'It would be useful to know whether Cage's silence is artistically
>preferrable to Acton's; whether the later work may be considered an
>improvement upon the earlier or merely a "quotation" of it; whether
>Cage's work is an homage to his predecessor's, and which work should
>be regarded as more meaningful.
>           'Anthony Hecht
>             Washington

I'm reminded of a story about Elliot Carter in a lecture/discussion
at a university, commenting on a chord he found which which included
one of every class of interval in it (in Howard Hanson's categories,
that is: p, m, n, s, d, t)  and how he based one of his compositions
on that chord -- to which a faculty member in the audience angrily
responded something like: "That's MY chord!  I discovered it first!" :-)

>[...Comments re Boulez...]

The personal differences between Boulez and Cage are well documented.

Cheers,

--Mark Gresham

dscatl!mgresham@gatech.edu

==========================


We have the Mona Lisa; now we have the Mona Lisa with a moustache.
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
From: cb@tamarack13.timbuk (Chris Brewster)
Subject: Re: Threepenny Opera...THE MOVIE
In-reply-to: conrad@brahms.udel.edu's message of Thu, 10 Sep 1992 03:07:26 GMT
Organization: pubs
Date: 10 Sep 92 10:22:23 CDT

Jon Conrad writes:

   ... This [1962 German] version is universally regarded as a
   travesty, submitting Weill's music to tasteless and styleless
   rearrangements.  I recall a review of the soundtrack album which ended
   with the words "a record to boycott." ...

Well...as I said, I kind of liked it (how embarassing :-).  I suppose if
I knew the original better I might have objected, but this version had
its own kind of edge, which is what appealed to me.  It wasn't Weimar in
feel, and they didn't attempt to set it in 1930.  (Its time and place
were left unclear as I remember it.)  Anyway, is there a *good* film
version of 3PO?  The 1931 version is authentic and so forth, but I
wouldn't call it enjoyable.

Speaking of rearrangements and travesties, there was that album of Weill
songs using current pop stars, titled "Lost in the Stars" (not to be
confused with the Weill show of that name).  A puzzling production.

Chris Brewster
cb@cray.com

Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
From: pawel@tethys.ph.albany.edu
Subject: Re: Beethoven's 10th. Symphony
Reply-To: pawel@tethys.ph.albany.edu
Organization: SUNYA School of Public Health, Albany, NY
Date: Thu, 10 Sep 92 15:21:16 GMT

In article <00960672.DA715FE0@vms.csd.mu.edu>, 6145goldino@vms.csd.mu.edu (Owen Goldin) writes:
>I seem to recall hearing on the radio several years ago an orchestral version
>of a reconstruction of the unfinished manuscripts for Beethoven's 10th
>symphony.  It did sound like Beethoven, and it sounded pretty good, though I
>admit to not really being able to appreciate most concert music except after a
>handful of hearings.  My question -- who did the reconstruction?  Is the
>recording available?  And what is the consensus of musicologists on this? 
>(Opinion is still divided on Cooke's Mahler's 10th, though I take it that the
>manuscripts for this are much fuller.)
>     (Now if only more manuscripts would turn up for Ives's Universe Symphony .
>.. . . Ives welcomed people doing whatever they wanted to with his written
>music.)
>
>Owen 

  There is a CD recording of "Beethoven's 10'th", or rather one part
of it.  The other half of the playing time if filled with the lecture
of somebody who did the reconstruction and he illustrates his point
playing on the piano.  I do not remember much more since I did
not play this CD to often (actually I played it twice) - the music
is so-so and cannot be possibly mistaken for Beethoven's.  I recall
that it was reconstructed from very brief sketches.  The idea of
reconstructing Beethoven's pieces from his notes is not a good one
since he used to modify his initial sketches quite a lot (unlike
some other composers, for example Mahler).  One can see it from
his sketches of other, finished compositions - they hardly resemble
"final product".

  You should be able to find this particular CD in the record stores -
I still see it around and it sells for $10 or so.

                        Pawel Penczek
From: rob@cs.man.ac.uk (Robert Marshall)
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
Subject: Identification (and conductor) wanted
Date: 11 Sep 92 08:15:04 GMT
Reply-To: Robert Marshall <rajm@cs.man.ac.uk>
Organization: Department of Computer Science, University of Manchester


According to Charles Rosen's `The Classical Style', a well known
conductor (unnamed) used to, usually, omit the 5/8 sections from a
well known piece of music (also unnamed) because he found it too
difficult to beat. The composer is supposed to have protested
privately but in vain.

Anyone care to name names?

Robert
--
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Room 3.08, IT Building, Department of Computer Science,
University of Manchester, Oxford Road, Manchester, M13 9PL, U.K.
Tel: (+44) 61-275 6269          Fax: (+44) 61-275 6280
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Newsgroups: rec.music.classical