HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: flax@frej.teknikum.uu.se (Jonas Flygare)
Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast
Subject: Re: hate mail
Date: 27 Dec 92 01:09:35 GMT
Distribution: talk
Organization: Dept. Of Control, Teknikum, Uppsala
NNTP-Posting-Host: frej.teknikum.uu.se
In-reply-to: "wayne mcguire"'s message of 24 Dec 92 16:15:05 EST


In article <1992Dec24.1777.21553@channel1> "wayne mcguire" <wayne.mcguire@channel1.com> writes:

   To: Chris Metcalfe

Never mind that you _insist_ on using the followup, and still address
_one_ person.. Since you choose this way I'll assume you are open to 
debate.

   Those with a minimal command of the English language will not be
   surprised to learn that the latest edition of the American
   Heritage Dictionary (the third, 1992) defines "hate mail" thus:

Nice way of saying "You babble." Why not just say so, next time?
Or do I detect an attempt to flaunt _your_ command of the English 
language?

	Correspondence that expresses the sender's animosity,
	disapproval, or prejudice, often in offensive language.

If you _insist_ on beating people over the head with a dictionary
(Yes, I know it can be great fun, I've done so myself) remember to
check _all_ definitions, so that your definition doesn't backfire.

   Few people will fail to recognize that messages overflowing with
   phrases like "you lying piece of garbage" qualify as hate mail,
   as the term is generally understood by those who learned how to
   read and speak English. I'll wager that administrators at Case
   Western Reserve University mastered basic skills in English.

Now, go and look up 'mail' in the dictionary, and then tell me what
slight error you made.. FYI, I'm using the electronic webster.

Besides, as long as you post in a public forum, I agree with Chris, 
that while he may be using language you find offensive, I'd hardly
categorize it as 'hate mail'. It's the electronic equivalent of 
abusive language, but I'm not sure you'd be able to get it labelled
as slander.

The 'game' is played as follows: As long as I choose to reply to a 
post, I have to accept that people like/dislike what I write, 
and that they are entitled to having an opinion about it. If they 
choose to use a 'colorful' language to voice the said opinion, so
be it. Tough luck. If you have any grievances about being called
a liar, I suggest that you try to redeem that. As to Chris thinking
that you are a 'lying piece of garbage' (not an exact quote, I think, 
but that's the best I can recall for now.) that is your problem.
Really.

(We now return to your scheduled exchange of missiles.)

--

--------------------------------------------------------
Jonas Flygare, 		+ Wherever you go, there you are
V{ktargatan 32 F:621	+
754 22 Uppsala, Sweden	+
Xref: sparky talk.politics.mideast:24359 talk.politics.soviet:10074 soc.culture.greek:11951 soc.culture.europe:10894 soc.history:10443 soc.culture.soviet:11677
From: sera@zuma.UUCP (Serdar Argic)
Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast,talk.politics.soviet,soc.culture.greek,soc.culture.europe,soc.history,soc.culture.soviet
Followup-To: soc.culture.turkish
Subject: Re: Serdar (int) Argc
Date: Tue, 29 Dec 92 19:52:26 EST
Reply-To: sera@zuma.UUCP (Serdar Argic)
Distribution: world

In article <1992Dec29.192109.22577@rotag.mi.org> kevin@rotag.mi.org (Kevin Darcy) writes:

>Hey, Serdar, what's a little genocide between friends? It's the holiday
>season, after all...

Interesting. I would never have thought that you would have shared
a common purpose with the Nazi Armenians and the ASALA/SDPA/ARF
Terrorism Triangle.

Source: Walker, Christopher: "Armenia: The Survival of a Nation."
        New York (St. Martin's Press), 1980.

This generally pro-Armenian work contains the following information
of direct relevance to the Nazi Holocaust: 

a) Dro (the butcher), the former Dictator of the Armenian Dictatorship and
the architect of the Genocide of 2.5 million Turks and Kurds, the most 
respected of Nazi Armenian leaders, established an Armenian Provisional 
Republic in Berlin during World War II; 

b) this 'provisional government' fully endorsed and espoused the social 
theories of the Nazis, declared themselves and all Armenians to be members 
of the Aryan 'Super-Race;' 

c) they published an Anti-Semitic, racist journal, thereby aligning themselves 
with the Nazis and their efforts to exterminate the Jews; and, 

d) they mobilized an Armenian Army of up to 20,000 members which fought side 
by side with the Wehrmacht.


Serdar Argic

                     'This war quickly developed into one of extermination. 
                      We closed the roads and mountain passes that might 
                      serve as ways of escape for the Tartars [Turks] and 
                      then proceeded in the work of extermination.'
                                                       (Ohanus Appressian)

Xref: sparky talk.politics.mideast:24354 talk.politics.soviet:10069 soc.culture.greek:11946 soc.culture.europe:10889 soc.history:10438 soc.culture.soviet:11672
From: sera@zuma.UUCP (Serdar Argic)
Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast,talk.politics.soviet,soc.culture.greek,soc.culture.europe,soc.history,soc.culture.soviet
Followup-To: soc.culture.turkish
Subject: Re: A forgery by "Josh Smith": a crook exposed.
Date: Tue, 29 Dec 92 19:44:30 EST
Reply-To: sera@zuma.UUCP (Serdar Argic)
Distribution: world

In article <1hpqbnINNkit@cascade.cs.ubc.ca> kvdoel@cs.ubc.ca (Kees van den Doel) writes:

>Dear Serdar Argic,
>I humbly beg you to answer the following questions with `yes' or `no':
>    a) Are you a human being?

Bathos.

>    b) If `yes' to a), do you get paid to post?

Wrong address; see "ASALA/SDPA/ARF Terrorism and Revisionism Triangle".

>Your dedicated admirer,

I am flattered. Now, any comment?

Source: Bilal N. Simsir, "The Genesis of the Armenian Question," Ankara, 1984,
pp. 5-6.

p. 6.

"While Armenian merchants and shop-keepers were doing good business during the
 Russian occupation, several other Armenians in the Eastern regions of 
 Anatolia collaborated with the invading Russian armies. The Russian
 officers of Armenian origin, such as Lieutenant-General Lazareff at Kars
 and Major Kamsaragan at Erzurum, encouraged the local Armenians to enter
 Russian service and played a certain role in obtaining their collaboration.
 Major Kamsaragan, former Russian acting Consul of Erzurum, became the 
 Chief of the Police of the town during the Russian occupation...The presence
 of the Russians in the region encouraged those Armenian collaborators to
 maltreat their Turkish neighbors. Captain Trotter, the British Military
 Consul at Erzurum, reported: 'There is no doubt that during the Russian
 occupation several of the Armenians, who had been enrolled in the local
 police, took advantage of the opportunity to abuse and maltreat the
 Mussulmans. This has been admitted to me by the Russian acting Vice
 Consul...'[12]"

[12] F.O. 424/77, No. 114; Turkey No. 54 (1878), No. 355; Turkey No. 10
     (1879), No. I.

p. 19.

"...these Armenian mountaineers revolted again under the brigand Chief
 Babek, by attacking neighbouring Turkish villages and tribes...Then they
 looted several Mussulman villages....to find the mosque and government 
 buildings in flame..."

Serdar Argic

                     'This war quickly developed into one of extermination. 
                      We closed the roads and mountain passes that might 
                      serve as ways of escape for the Tartars [Turks] and 
                      then proceeded in the work of extermination.'
                                                       (Ohanus Appressian)

Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast
From: ifaz706@utxvms.cc.utexas.edu
Subject: Re: Solutions to the problem? (was Re: Sgt-Mgr
Organization: University of Texas @ Austin
Date: 29 Dec 92 00:59:21 CST

In article <1hlthpINNmvi@manuel.anu.edu.au>, bdm@cs.anu.edu.au (Brendan McKay) writes:
> In article 10894@colorado.edu, perlman@qso.Colorado.EDU (Eric S. Perlman) writes:

>>Not exactly.  This is what the PLO charter says, but the fact is that it
>>also says that Jews who returned to their homeland and now live in
>>Israel must leave.  And during the Israeli war of Independence, in 1948,
>>Hajj Amin al-Husseini, the Palestinian leader, had similarly draconian
>>ideas:  he had worked actively with the Nazis during World War II, and
>>shared many of their ideas concerning Jews.
> 
> Presumably you mean the Palestine National Covenant (1968).  A Palestinian
> is defined recursively to be an Arab who lived in Palestine in 1947, or a 
> Jew who lived there in 1917, or anyone with a Palestinian father.  That
> would rule out the majority of Jews who lived in Palestine in 1947.
> However, Zeyd did not mention the PLO.  He is correct about Arab 
> proposals from earlier times, but the position hardened gradually
> from 1948-9 to 1968.  As to al-Husseini, if you have any knowledge
> of what "draconian ideas" he had in 1948, you are yet to prove it.


	Brendan, you must be aware of al Hussainy's ideas during
	the early 40's.  What do you think made him soften his 
	attitudes after the war?

 
Noam

> Brendan.
> 
>>     Eric S. Perlman 				 <perlman@qso.colorado.edu> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast
From: msilverm@nyx.cs.du.edu (Mike Silverman)
Subject: Re: israel & hamas
Organization: University of Denver, Dept. of Math & Comp. Sci.
Date: Sun, 27 Dec 92 05:48:01 GMT

Center for Policy Research <cpr@igc.apc.org> writes:


>I read your comments about Israel and Hamas. You are very kind to
>'allow' the natives of Palestine, the Palestinians, some sort
>of demilitarized autonomy, a sort of super-reservation. This is
>indeed generous !!!

The Israelis living in Israel are as much natives of the land
as the Palestinians are. If you think otherwise, you must then
agree that the only true natives of the United States are
American Indians.
--
msilverm@nyx.cs.du.edu				GO CUBS!!!

"One likes to believe in the freedom of baseball" - Geddy Lee
Xref: sparky talk.politics.mideast:23850 soc.culture.greek:11717 soc.culture.europe:10672 soc.history:10292 soc.rights.human:4623
From: sera@zuma.UUCP (Serdar Argic)
Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast,soc.culture.greek,soc.culture.europe,soc.history,soc.rights.human
Followup-To: soc.culture.turkish
Subject: Re: Continuation on Greek crimes.
Date: Mon, 21 Dec 92 19:34:11 EST
Reply-To: sera@zuma.UUCP (Serdar Argic)
Distribution: world

In article <BzL46M.G7B@news.cso.uiuc.edu> varnavas@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (varnavas constantine) writes:

>Before July 20, 1974 there were approximately 200,000 Greek Cypriots living
>in the area now occupied by Turkey.  

Are you talking about the following criminals?


 Peter Moorhead reporting from the village of Skyloura, Cyprus. 
 Date : 1 January, 1964. 

 IL GIARNO (Italy)
 
 THEY ARE TURK-HUNTING, THEY WANT TO EXTERMINATE THEM.

 Discussions start in London; in Cyprus terror continues. Right now we
 are witnessing the exodus of Turks from the villages. Thousands of people
 abandoning homes, land, herds; Greek Cypriot terrorism is relentless. This 
 time, the rhetoric of the Hellenes and the bust of Plato do not suffice to 
 cover up barbaric and ferocious behaviors.

 Article by Giorgo Bocca, Correspondent of Il Giorno
 Date: 14 January 1964

 DAILY HERALD (London)

 AN APPALLING SIGHT

And when I came across the Turkish homes they were an appalling sight.
Apart from the walls, they just did not exist. I doubt if a napalm bomb
attack could have created more devastation. I counted 40 blackened brick
and concrete shells that had once been homes. Each house had been deliberately
fired by petrol. Under red tile roofs which had caved in, I found a twisted
mass of bed springs, children's conts and cribs, and ankle deep grey
ashes of what had once been chairs, tables and wardrobes.

In the neighbouring village of Ayios Vassilios, a mile away, I counted 16 
wrecked and burned out homes. They were all Turkish Cypriot homes. From
this village more than 100 Turkish Cypriots had also vanished.In neither village
did I find a scrap of damage to any Greek Cypriot house.


 DAILY TELEGRAPH (London)
 
 GRAVES OF 12 SHOT TURKISH CYPRIOTS FOUND IN CYPRUS VILLAGE

 Silent crowds gathered tonight outside the Red Crescent hospital in the
 Turkish Sector of Nicosia, as the bodies of 9 Turkish Cypriots found
 crudely buried outside the village of Ayios Vassilios, 13 miles away, were
 brought to the hospital under the escort of the Parachute Regiment. Three 
 more bodies, including one of a woman, were discovered nearby but could
 not be removed. Turkish Cypriots guarded by paratroops are still trying to 
 locate the bodies of 20 more believed to have been buried on the same site.

Serdar Argic

                     'This war quickly developed into one of extermination. 
                      We closed the roads and mountain passes that might 
                      serve as ways of escape for the Tartars [Turks] and 
                      then proceeded in the work of extermination.'
                                                       (Ohanus Appressian)


Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast
From: seth@inst-sun1.tmc.edu (Seth Chazanoff)
Subject: Re: All Arabs are guilty
Organization: Jet Propulsion Laboratory, Pasadena, CA, USA
Date: Thu, 31 Dec 1992 00:15:12 GMT

jacobsen@itexjct.jct.ac.il (Joel Jacobsen) writes:

>Oh what an inocent American. Where are all the Indians today?

In varous places, Reservations, cities, towns, some are doing quite well, others
are not.  This is not to imply that the indians got a very raw deal.

>( Including all who killed in the not_so_famous massacre for finding the 
>  optimal caliber for handgun. Many Indian was shot to death in a 'test'
>  that brought the .45 ACP caliber. You can check it out..)

I thought that I knew quite a bit about the subject of the .45 Automatic Colt
Pistol caliber round, I never heard about this 'test'.  Would you be so kind as
to point me at some references?

>        Joel


Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast
From: wmuhanna@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (Waleed A Muhanna)
Subject: Re: Can Mr. Perlman back up his claims? (was  Re: Israeli soldiers kill Palestinian boy)
Organization: The Ohio State University
Date: Wed, 23 Dec 1992 18:45:34 GMT

In article <23107@venera.isi.edu> arens@ISI.EDU (Yigal Arens) writes:
>In article <1992Dec19.152908.6275@colorado.edu> perlman@qso.Colorado.EDU (Eric S. Perlman) writes:
>>
>> In article <23100@venera.isi.edu> arens@ISI.EDU (Yigal Arens) writes:
>> >
>> >Instead of backing up your voluntary assertion
>> >that "[You] do know that numerous PLO-affiliated activists who've stated
>> >even slightly non-standard opinions have been forced to seek protection
>> >from Israeli authorities", you are continuing to argue with me about my
>> >comments on Damiri's words.  As though if it were shown that I even
>> >INTENTIONALLY LIED about Damiri this would somehow establish the truth
>> >of your original claim.
>>
>> You're misconstruing my argument.  You twisted Damiri's words.  Period.
>> You made what was only a hair's breadth from a guilt-by-association
>> argument based on that twisting.  
>>
>> I'm not confusing Usenet with reality, Dr. Arens.  But I think you are
>> being extremely spiteful, and I for one do not have to respond to pure,
>> unadulterated sour grapes.  
>
>What do "sour grapes" "extreme spiteful[ness]" on my part or anything
>else have to do with this?  Prove me wrong.  Post evidence for your
>claim that "numerous PLO-affiliated activists who've stated even
>slightly non-standard opinions have been forced to seek protection from
>Israeli authorites".  You can't.

Poor Perlman.  Once again, he is cought with his pants down, but instead
of facing reality, he twists and shouts and engages in hyperboles, all in
a disparate attempt to hide his naked reality.  In two days, I'm sure, he
will come back and claim that he has "utterly refuted" Yigal.

We all make mistakes, Perlman.  I suggest you simply admit it and save
whatever little credibility that some think you might still have.

Waleed Muhanna
-=-
"the man dies in all who keep silent in the face of tyranny"
			Wole Soyinka, Nobel Laureate.
From: arens@ISI.EDU (Yigal Arens)
Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast
Subject: Re: Practicing what is preached, Part III
Date: 21 Dec 92 22:04:04 GMT
	<23075@venera.isi.edu> <42732@sdcc12.ucsd.edu>
Organization: USC/Information Sciences Institute
In-reply-to: revans@euclid.ucsd.edu's message of 20 Dec 92 02:41:06 GMT

In article <42732@sdcc12.ucsd.edu> revans@euclid.ucsd.edu (Ron Evans) writes:
>
> <1992Dec15.182856.23705@colorado.edu> perlman@qso.Colorado.EDU (Eric S. Perlman) writes:
> ...  I do know that numerous
> PLO-affiliated activists who've stated even slightly non-standard
> opinions have been forced to seek protection from Israeli authorities
> not for being collaborators - which they're not - but just for speaking
> something that some party or other doesn't approve of.
>
> In article <23075@venera.isi.edu> arens@ISI.EDU (Yigal Arens) writes:
> This often repeated claim is absolute nonsense, completely untrue. .
> . .  Can you provide us ONE (1) example of a PLO-affiliated activist
> who did no more than state a slightly non-standard opinion, and as a
> consequence was forced to seek protection from Israeli authorities?
>
>  Absolute nonsense?  Completely untrue?   Often repeated?
>  Let's be merciful and focus just on "often repeated".
>  Where is the evidence that this claim has been repeated
>  often?  Where is the evidence that this claim has 
>  been made even by a single additional person?

Well, Mr. Perlman, in his last article in his exchange with me, says
concerning that exact statement of mine:

   "[Yigal Arens himself] admitted this on Usenet when [he] pointed out
    as an introduction to [his] original message that it's a 'commonly
    made' accusation"

His language clearly indicates that he agrees that this is indeed, as I
had stated, a "commonly made" accusation (one is not said to "admit" to
something false!).  We thus have ONE additional person who believes as I
do -- and not just *anyone*, but the illustrious debater and source of
your usenet quotations, Mr. Eric S. Perlman himself!

According to the new standard of proof on Usenet recently set by Mr.
Perlman, this does not count merely as ONE example of a person who
agrees with me, but in fact is an irrefutable indication of a TREND!  If
you, Mr. Evans disagree, you are simply BUCKING THE TREND, clearly a
losing battle.  Furthermore, according to the new standard of debate on
Usenet recently set by Mr. Perlman, it is not my job to prove that my
claims are true -- it is YOUR job to prove that they are false.  And if
you narrow-midedly insist otherwise, that just goes to show that "you
don't know what logical argument is", as he claims is the case with me.

So there.
--
Yigal Arens
USC/ISI                                                TV made me do it!
arens@isi.edu
From: DSHAL@vmd.cso.uiuc.edu
Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast
Subject: Re: t.p.m boring
Date: 29 Dec 92 21:12:46 GMT
Organization: C.C.S.O.

I strongly second the motion. The radical views portraited through this group i
s totally self-destructive. The hatred and deafness vented may be good for one'
s self esteem but little else.
It is about time that sides set down guidelines about what should be discussed.
Personally, I would like to see each person's views as to the concessions need
done by the peace-process groups, in order to achieve thierrespected goal.
 
David Shalhevet
220 PABL
University of Illinois
 
Xref: sparky talk.politics.mideast:24294 news.admin.policy:943
From: sera@zuma.UUCP (Serdar Argic)
Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast,news.admin.policy
Followup-To: soc.culture.turkish
Subject: What is your point "HELA iti"? Scared of creating "*.*.*armenia"?
Date: Mon, 28 Dec 92 22:55:29 EST
Reply-To: sera@zuma.UUCP (Serdar Argic)
Distribution: world

In article <scs.725581719@wotan.iti.org> scs@iti.org (Steve Simmons) writes:

>Me, I'm kind of curious to see what Karl is gonna do.

Nature so works it that everybody gets a turn at getting what
they deserve in one way or another. Is this a threat?


Serdar Argic

                     'This war quickly developed into one of extermination. 
                      We closed the roads and mountain passes that might 
                      serve as ways of escape for the Tartars [Turks] and 
                      then proceeded in the work of extermination.'
                                                       (Ohanus Appressian)



Xref: sparky talk.politics.mideast:24356 talk.politics.soviet:10071 soc.culture.greek:11948 soc.culture.europe:10891 soc.history:10440 soc.culture.soviet:11674
From: sera@zuma.UUCP (Serdar Argic)
Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast,talk.politics.soviet,soc.culture.greek,soc.culture.europe,soc.history,soc.culture.soviet
Followup-To: soc.culture.turkish
Subject: Re: Answer the question
Date: Tue, 29 Dec 92 19:48:25 EST
Reply-To: sera@zuma.UUCP (Serdar Argic)
Distribution: world

In article <1hq3ilINN48d@network.ucsd.edu> dharkins@papillon.ucsd.edu (Dan Harkins) writes:

> [ trite massacre story deleted ]

But, why?

Source: Documents: Volume I (1919).
        "Document No: 42," Archive No: 1-2, Cabin No: 110, Drawer 
        No: 1(4), File No: 373, Section No: 1484(1032), Contents No: 9, 9-1.
        (To the Office of Acting Supreme Commander - Acting Assistant
        Section Director Major Ali Sukru)

"It is sufficient to mention just some of the terrible and shameful crimes
 committed only in Erzurum to get an idea about the Armenian atrocities
 in the villages...

 I would also like to mention with disgust and abominable sight, a stain
 on humanity, that I encountered at the west of Hasankale while my regiment
 was proceeding into this town. There was a young Turkish women, apparently
 once a very beautiful one, lying dead on one side of the road. A huge
 stick had been inserted into her vagina. We took the corpses and left it
 at a spot that was invisible from the road..."
 
Serdar Argic

                     'This war quickly developed into one of extermination. 
                      We closed the roads and mountain passes that might 
                      serve as ways of escape for the Tartars [Turks] and 
                      then proceeded in the work of extermination.'
                                                       (Ohanus Appressian)
From: gwydion@gnu.ai.mit.edu (Mercenary Programmer)
Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast
Subject: Re: Deportation of Palestinians
Date: 2 Jan 1993 01:00:50 GMT
Organization: Free Software Foundation
NNTP-Posting-Host: spiff.gnu.ai.mit.edu

jeremy@castle.ed.ac.uk (Jeremy Henderson) writes:
# Right. I think it's plain enough that people who will defend the punishment
# of a group of people without any trial, on the basis simply of the beliefs
# they are alleged to hold, will support just about anything. 

astein@nysernet.org (Alan Stein) writes:

# The terrorists were not deported on the basis of their beliefs;  they
# were deported (temporarily) because of their role in promoting murder,
# violence and terrorism.



Alleged role.  It was not proved that they had anything to do with
promoting murder, violence or terrorism.  They were not given a fair
trial.  As you well know.

The only way to claim correctness in their deportations is to assume
that any Palestinian is automatically guilty.  As Steve Goldfield once
put it so eloquently, "There was this Palestinian terrorist, crying in
his crib."

Basalat Ali Raja.

Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast
From: hernlem@chess.ncsu.EDU (Brad Hernlem)
Subject: Exile Camp Shelled
Reply-To: hernlem@chess.ncsu.EDU (Brad Hernlem)
Organization: North Carolina State University
Date: Sun, 3 Jan 1993 15:25:10 GMT


According to the BBC (0400 UTC 3-1-93), shells originating from within
the Israeli zone of occupation in Lebanon fell around the perimeter of
the Palestinian exiles' make-shift camp yesterday.

Brad "Ali" Hernlem (hernlem@chess.ncsu.EDU)
Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast