HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: fredg@escc.com (Fred Goldrich)
Subject: Re: Oboe family (was Re: Cor Angl*)
Organization: ESCC, New York City
Date: Mon, 13 Apr 1992 12:27:23 GMT
Keywords: oboe, trombone

In article <1992Apr8.150446.10849@husc3.harvard.edu> elkies@ramanujan.harvard.edu (Noam Elkies) writes:
>In article <ku4miqINN66i@jethro.Corp.Sun.COM>
>drijbo@one-iron.Corp.Sun.COM (Jonathan Osser) writes:
>:In article <1992Apr7.200235.10815@husc3.harvard.edu> [I wrote]:
>:I'm not familiar with the soprano trombone--can someone post something
>:about it?  Was it used to double sopranos in early 17thC choral music?
>:Is it pitched an octave above the tenor?  What clef was it normally
>:written in?
>
>I rechecked this in the Grove.  Yes, it was usually an octave above the
>tenor trombone, and had been used to reinforce choral treble parts,
>but apparently never was very common.  The Grove "trombone" article
>says nothing about clefs for the soprano trombone --- or for that matter
>any of the other trombones (if memory serves), though it does make the
>point that trombones, like tubas, aren't transposing instruments,  such
>designations as "B-flat/F trombone" notwithstanding.
>
>:The alto trombone is alive and well in several mainstream orchestras I've
>:seen performing 19thC music.
>
	The soprano trombone is a real curiosity -- it appears in very
few places, and I have no idea what clef was used.

	However, the current tradition of two tenors and a bass in a
trombone section is an outgrowth of an older tradition of a tenor/alto/
bass section, and when each was allotted a separate staff in a score,
the three trombones were ordinarily written with their corresponding
clefs.  However, to save space, it was common to group two or more trom-
bones on one staff -- frequently the alto and tenor, for which the alto
clef was most commonly used.  When the alto came to be replaced by
another tenor, it resulted in a pair of tenors written in the alto clef!

	Many principal trombonists carry an alto trombone as well as a
tenor, because it makes the high notes easier to play.  A commonly
cited example is Schumann's 3rd; there are also some high notes toward
the end of Brahms's 2nd that some trombonists prefer to take on alto.

					-- Fred Goldrich
-- 
Fred Goldrich
fredg@marob.escc.com
Xref: sparky rec.music.classical:5889 comp.music:2432
From: hjv@phil.ruu.nl (Hendrik Jan Veenstra)
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical,comp.music
Subject: Re: Help, which instrument?
Date: 15 Apr 92 13:42:56 GMT
Organization: Department of Philosophy, University of Utrecht, The Netherlands

roger@phoenix.Princeton.EDU (Roger Lustig) writes:

>In article <1992Apr15.030528.22310@cunixf.cc.columbia.edu>
> hyx1@cunixa.cc.columbia.edu (Harry Y Xu) writes:
>>Hi,
>>	I plan to put up an effort to learn an instrument over the Summer.
>>I just want to entain my ear (amongst other body parts); just want to learn
>>an easy-to-pick-up instrument.

>Easy-to-pick-up WHAT?  8-)  Yes, it's a great way to meet people, too...

>>	Can somebody give me advise on which instrument is the easiest to 
>>learn?  I know the Q might sound stupid, but can't think of better wording.

>>PS.	I sort of like woodwind and brass, but not sure.

>Recorder, then.  Cheap, most of the music isn't too hairy, and you can
>carry it around with you.

>>	I have no musical potential/intellence.

>DEFINITELY recorder.  8-)

No, far too difficult. I would vote for mouth-harp... :)


--
Hendrik Jan Veenstra - Department of Philosophy
University of Utrecht - The Netherlands
USENET: hjv@phil.ruu.nl   * don't worry about life; it's not permanent *
From: lynn@phx.mcd.mot.com (Lynn D. Newton)
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
Subject: Re: Bartok String Quartets -- HELP
Date: 16 Apr 92 19:10:13 GMT
Organization: Motorola MCG, Tempe AZ


   NOBODY responded to my last posting.  Maybe it didn't make it onto the
   net somehow -- I'm getting suspicious that something is wrong here.
   So somebody please reply, even if to say "I ain't got the foggiest".
   And surely some of the regulars must have an opinion.  The question was:

     It is time to add the Bartok String Quartets to my collection.  Any
     recommendations for recordings?

Some elitist will probably shoot me down, but I've always kind of
liked my collection by the Tokyo String Quartet (on DG).

When I was in high school (30+ years ago) I had a set by the Fine Arts
Quartet which I played and played and played ... until I finally
literally wore the grooves off them and used them for frisbees or
something.
--
=============================================================
Lynn D. Newton            | Core Engineering                 
Motorola Computer Group   | System Test                      
2900 South Diablo Way     | (Department of Heuristic Neology)
Tempe, Arizona 85282      | "the bug stops here!"            
Mail Stop DW220           |==================================
(602) 438-3739            |               FOR                
lynn@jazz.phx.mcd.mot.com |               RENT               
=============================================================
From: packer@amarna.gsfc.nasa.gov (Charles Packer)
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
Subject: Nice recording of Haydn's #103
Date: 16 Apr 92 17:19:00 GMT
Organization: Dept. of Independence
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.4-b1

I heard on the radio a recording of Haydn's Symphony #103
("Drum Roll") conducted by Charles Mackerras. The orchestra
was St. Lukes something-or-other. It sounded like period
instruments...but the performance was so, ahem, musical!
Anyone know whether this is a CD, and if so, is it a
re-issue, and what's the label? If it's a new recording,
does it mean Mackerras might be doing more Haydn symphonies?
Xref: sparky rec.music.classical:5743 sci.lang:3927
From: johnnyb@ims.com (Johnny Battle)
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical,sci.lang
Subject: Re: Cor ANGLIAS or ANGL'E
Date: 9 Apr 92 16:41:04 GMT
Organization: Integrated Measurement Systems, Inc.

In article <1992Apr8.172335.26283@ims.com>, johnnyb@ims.com (Johnny Battle) writes:
|> In article <1068@csinn.capsogeti.fr>, grossi@capsogeti.fr (Thomas Grossi) writes:
|> |> In article <SMAILL.92Apr4024354@lomond.aisb.ed.ac.uk>, smaill@aisb.ed.ac.uk (Alan Smaill) writes:
|> |> |> Well, it's a different  question, but I believe that ( and this is my
|> |> |> favourite etymology (assuming it's true)) the Basset Horn is named after
|> |> |> (pour les amerloques ca se dit "for") a German instrument maker called
|> |> |> Horn.
|> |> 
|> |> Well, I wouldn't dare speak for *all* Americans, but *this* "amerloque" would
|> |> indeed have said "named after..."  But surely you mean "a German instrument 
|> |> maker named Basset" and not "Horn"!
|> 
|> Surely the Basset Horn and the Basset Hound are named for (on the following
|> ground) the low notes they are capable of sounding, rather than after (by a 
|> name derived from) the appellation of Hr. Horn's son, Basset.

Besides, if a dog were called after Basset, the dog might go after us, instead,
and give us what for.  I've had some real dogs go for me over the years,
and even the horny young Basset would probably forgo foreplay with a 
four-footed female (forsooth).  Or, if we named the Basset Horn after him, 
wouldn't we really be doing that for ourselves. (For Basset is in the Great
Hereafter.)  And if we named the horn for ourselves, how could we name it after
him? 


For ever after yours,
(if it`s better than mine)
Johnny Battle

P.S. I certainly don`t speak for my employer after this.
From: jmann@vineland.pubs.stratus.com (Jim Mann)
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
Subject: Re: government and the arts
Date: 14 Apr 92 14:35:25 GMT
Article-I.D.: transfer.2179
Reply-To: jmann@vineland.pubs.stratus.com
Distribution: na

In article <1992Apr11.005446.8595@acsu.buffalo.edu>  
henning@acsu.buffalo.edu (Karl inflexible Henning) writes:
> Gary Merrill writes:
> 
> >I, for one, resent just the tiniest bit being told that I must become  
a
> >patron to artists over whose selection or direction I have no control.
> >I cannot delude myself into thinking that "the people" or our  
"national
> >culture" would be better off for my contribution to such a pork  
barrel.
> 
> Just for fun ... for "artists", above, substitute "dubious
> space-oriented weapons research", and "national security" for
> "national culture".  There;  feel better?  I'm sure /I/ do ....
> 

There is one big difference here, though.  We can try to encourage
our representatives in Congress to vote against those military
programs (or ____ programs, fill in the blank) and our Congress can
do so. More importantly, nobody will try to say that Congress
does not have the RIGHT to decide which military programs it
should fund and which it shouldn't.   (Some folks may complain
that Congress chose the wrong ones, but nobody will say they
don't have the RIGHT to make this mistake.)  Support of the
arts is different, though.  When Congress tries to make
such decisions, there are cries of censorship, with some folks
claiming that the Congress really doesn't have the right to only
fund the kinds of art it likes.

--
Jim Mann                                       
jmann@vineland.pubs.stratus.com 
Stratus Computer
From: conrad@brahms.udel.edu (Jon Conrad)
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
Subject: Re: Handel's "Tamerlano"
Date: 6 Apr 92 17:06:48 GMT
Organization: University of Delaware

I'd throw in my own endorsement for "Tamerlano."  I still retain a bit
of skepticism as to whether Handel's opera serias can work *for us* on
the stage (I'm not disputing that they worked for his audiences).  But
I'm still hoping to be proved wrong about that, because in his very best
operas, of which "Tamerlano" for my money is one, one can hear a kind of
drama through the music that is utterly compelling.  On records, when we
can imagine a staging, it DOES work.  As Roger said, the end of Act II
in this opera is a stunning achievement, a really creative use of the
exit convention.  Another fantastic spot is Bajazet's prison scene.
There are many good things in fact, and turned to real dramatic purpose.

The Gardiner recording is probably the best starting point.  I like his
conception of tempos, textures, and so on.  At points the singing seems
bloodless though, and I'd like to import the best singers from
Moriarity's recording (especially Alexander Young).  Malgoire, as Roger
noted, is totally out of the question.

Jon Alan Conrad
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
From: william sadler <wsadler@copper.ucs.indiana.edu>
Subject: Re: Arts ed vs. Arts funding (was Re: government and the arts)
Organization: Indiana University
Date: Tue, 14 Apr 1992 10:43:35 -0500

In <1992Apr13.171845.10712@unx.sas.com> sasdrf@daedalus.unx.sas.com (Dave Frederick) writes:
>|> >Occassionally, citizens of these monarchies resented the fact that
>|> >their ruler was taxing them in order to surround himself with the
>|> >luxuries associated with the court. Remember the Bastille?
>|>
>|> I don't think the Bastille (and its storming) had much to do with the
>|> support of artists, really.

>I had always understood the storming of the Bastille to be the commoners'
>reaction to the excesses of the court at their expense. Yes, le Louvre
>was a dwelling and not a museum at the time, but certainly poor serfs
>seeing the nightly performances might have gotten a little ticked. But
>I respect Roger's thorough knowledgde of history as being better than
>mine, and I will grant that this was perhaps a minor irritant in the
>Big Picture.

There is a book called _Music in the Service of the King_ which deals
with the music of Lully and how it was politically oriented.  Jane
Fulcher has also written a book on Grand Opera in which she presents
connections between many political events and operas.  Sneaking "la
Marsellaise" into operas, etc. in order to fire up the masses.  
Interesting stuff.

>|> Twain, are members of American cultures, to be sure, but with one or two
>|> exceptions ("Fanfare forthe Common Man") none of them has an artistic
>|> significance to the majority of Americans, or ever has had.  Beethoven
>|> and Shakespeare are far closer to the center of our culture than they
>|> are.

>Well, I'm not in total agreement here. We don't have quite as many
>centuries of retrospect to search for cultural identity, and I believe
>this leads to the illusion of a lack of culture. While our country is
>a couple hundred years old, it has only been within the past 100 or
>so years that we have really adopted a recognizable personna, and
>sometimes a century is too little posterity to appreciate the accomp-
>lishments of many artists.

Aaron Copland!?  I would say that Gershwin, Cole Porter, Hoagy
Carmichael, Duke Ellington, Count Basie, Charlie Parker, and Miles
Davis, etc. etc. are far closer to the central theme of American culture
during their lifetimes than Aaron Copland.  Look at the predominance
Gershwin's "Rhapsody in Blue" has achieved.  Even an airline commercial.

I think you leave out important Americans like Nathaniel Hawthorne,
Melville, Thoreau, and books like _McTeague_, _Sister Carrie_, all of
the Leatherstocking tales, the Federalist papers, etc. etc. when you
say that American culture has only solidified in the last century.

Will 
-- 
**********************************************************************
*Will Sadler		Indiana University Law School-Bloomington    *
*will@ogre.cica.indiana.edu	wsadler@copper.ucs.indiana.edu       *
**********************************************************************
From: chenl@cbnewse.cb.att.com (julian.l.chen)
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
Subject: Re: Transcriptions of famous pieces for guitar
Date: 15 Apr 92 15:35:36 GMT
Article-I.D.: cbnewse.1992Apr15.153536.13034
Organization: AT&T

>Well, I think I was badly in need of some profundity, and there is, IMHO,
>very very little profound music for guitar, whether original or transcribed.
>
>-- 
>Deryk Barker

On the contrary, I think there are a lot of beautiful music for gutiar,
both original or transcribed. Such as music from Bach, Tarrega, Granados,
Albeniz, Falla, Rodrigo, Torroba, Barrios, Lauro, Brouwer, Villa-Lobos...
And many first rate of composers of our time are now writing music for
guitar. Of course, most of these music are too difficult for the average
player. But from the master's hand, these music really bring out the
beauty of guitar.

Complains the guitar does not have a broad/good repertory does not
make a good excuse anymore. Just take a look at the catalog from Guitar
Solo, you will find you won't run of music to play for your whole life
even you are a professional classical guitarist. Of course, if you don't
like guitar music, than that is a whole different story.

Julian
From: hsmoliar+@cs.cmu.edu (Harold Smoliar)
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
Subject: Re: Oboe tracks...?
Date: 6 Apr 92 14:51:48 GMT
Organization: School of Computer Science, Carnegie Mellon

In article <ktnarpINN618@network.ucsd.edu> mbk@lyapunov.ucsd.edu (Matt Kennel) writes:
>wy09+@andrew.cmu.edu ("Walter Allen Young, III") writes:
>: aaaaaaaaaaagh.  it pains me to see the iron grip that all those european
>: oboists have on the recording industry.  the
>: glaetzner/goritzki/pierlot/holliger junta have been in heavy recording
>: rotation for the longest time, and people can't help but identify "oboe"
>: with their tone.
>
>Personally, I've never heard an oboist whose tone is anywhere as nice
>as Lothar Koch's.  
>
>
>any comments by oboists?
>
>
>Matt Kennel
>mbk@inls1.ucsd.edu


Sure--I hate his sound.  He sounds like he is playing on two popsicle sticks
tied together--no clarity at all.
Harold
hsmoliar@db1.speech.cs.cmu.edu
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
From: km34@cunixf.cc.columbia.edu (Keith Moulton)
Subject: Mahler Orchesterlied
Organization: Columbia University
Distribution: na
Date: Mon, 13 Apr 1992 19:42:24 GMT

Does anyone know if there is a complete collection of Mahler orchestral
songs on compact disc?

Thanks
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
From: roger@phoenix.Princeton.EDU (Roger Lustig)
Subject: Re: Request for Music Appreciation Tapes/Books.
Originator: news@ernie.Princeton.EDU
Keywords: music,appreciation,tapes,books
Organization: Princeton University
Distribution: usa
Date: Fri, 10 Apr 1992 14:57:53 GMT

In article <1596@askincask.COM> kishen@askincask.COM ( RkishenD) writes:

>I am an avid listener of classical (Indian and Western). I would like
>a list of books that will guide in my appreciation of Western music. I
>would also like to know if there are tapes/discs available explaining to
>the novice the how-to of appreciating Western classical music.

There are many textbooks that come with tapes, etc.  Classics include
Kerman's _Listen_ and Levy's _Music, A Listener's Introduction_.  The
glossary of terms in the latter is especially fine.  

There's a new set by Robert Winter, too.  Speaking of Winter, get his
Beethoven's 9th software from Voyager, sit down at a Mac with a CD-ROM,
and get a good intro to dozens of aspects of this endlessly challenging
piece.  Then move on to his Rite of Spring product.  (These are
glorified Hypercard stacks, btw; keyed to points on the CD.  Very
elegantly done.)

In fact, from these two items alone, you'll learn a LOT about Western
music.

Roger
From: harris3@ra.nrl.navy.mil (Kevin Harris)
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
Subject: Franz Xaver Mozart
Date: 14 Apr 92 13:53:07 GMT
Organization: -

Does anyone out there know of any recordings of Franz Xaver Mozart
(Wolfgang Amadeus Mozart's son)?

please send replies to harris3@ra.nrl.navy.mil.

Thanks!

Kevin
From: Bill_P_Pearce@cup.portal.com
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
Subject: Re: Sexy Performers (was Re: Ivo Pogorelich (sp?))
Date: Mon,  6 Apr 92 22:22:21 PDT
Organization: The Portal System (TM)

  The notion of promoting a performer's fame by capitalizing on 
looks, or "sexiness", goes back a ways, of course.  Certainly
Paderewski was promoted that way and achieved a fame that
exceeded his abilities as a pianist.  And didn't Geraldine
Farrar have a coterie of female fans called "Gerryflappers",
or something like that - though that is a little different, I
guess, more akin to an organized claque (not to imply that she
was not a great singer).  I suppose it could be said to some
degree that Liszt and Paganini were promoted in this way too.

       Bill Pearce
From: dhesi@cirrus.com (Rahul Dhesi)
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
Subject: Re: FCC Deregulation? Re: Sorry State of Classical Radio
Date: 6 Apr 92 20:11:50 GMT
Distribution: na
Organization: Cirrus Logic Inc.

In <salem.701935471@pangea.Stanford.EDU> salem@pangea.Stanford.EDU (Bruce
Salem) writes:

>One thing is clear, letting the market dictate what gets on
>the airways has reduced both the number and quality of the choice.

Let's pause and understand just what sort of market operates in the
broadcasting industry.

First, consider book publishing.  I think we will all agree that the book
publishing industry in the US is alive and well, and generating a
phenomenal number and variety of books.

Now consider music publishing.  This industry, too, is alive and well.  I
can walk into a record store and get a tremendous variety of music,
including classical music.

What, then, is wrong with the broadcast industry?

What's wrong with the broadcast industry is actually the same thing that
is right with it.  The consumers are getting exactly what they pay for.

What are they paying for?

Before you try to answer this question, ask another:  Who are the
consumers?

The consumers are not the people who listen to radio.  The consumers of
the broadcast industry are the advertisers.   They are the ones who pay
for it.

You and I, the listeners, are the PRODUCT of the broadcast industry.  We
are being sold to the advertisers, who consume the product.  We are a
great product too!  We are sold by the millions and graded like eggs and
meat into neat categories such as "18-to-25".

The music enters the picture only indirectly.  It just happens to be a
the bait used to collect the product (you and I) so it can be sold to
the buyers (the advertisers).

Compare this situation with that in the book and recorded music
industry.  There, the consumer is the BUYER, who PAYS for the book or the
record.  That is why the consumer gets what he wants.

How can we get a greater variety of what is being broadcast?  The answer
is conceptually simple:   We must find a way of making the listener pay
for what he wants.  But this is technically very difficult.  The cable
industry may have an answer eventually.

Imagine a hypothetical world in which all books and recorded music had to
be distributed free, and the publisher's income came solely from
advertising.  What sort of choices do you think you would have?  You have
the same sort of choices when you listen to radio.

Let's think about how we can have pay-per-listen radio.  It may
eventually come about, but I don't think the political climate exists for
it to happen in the near future.

If you want the market to work for you, you must become the consumer and
stop being the product!

The market is actually working very well.
-- 
Rahul Dhesi <dhesi@cirrus.COM>
UUCP:  oliveb!cirrusl!dhesi
From: strong@tc.fluke.COM (Norm Strong)
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
Subject: Re: Sorry State of Classical Radio
Date: 9 Apr 92 16:12:48 GMT
Distribution: na
Organization: John Fluke Mfg. Co., Inc., Everett, WA

In article <1992Apr4.140206.12431@wisper.com> smith@wisper.com (Sue Smith) writes:
}I have noticed the same trend here in Connecticut.  Our Public Radio station
}is getting more and more "top 100 classics" oriented. It has backed off airing
}some programs that were not middle of the road, including one that originates
}from Minnesota that we and a small contingent loved ("Pipeworks").  What
}gripes me the most is that they play the top 100 stuff in the morning. So I
}am starting to switch allegience to the Massachusetts station (WFCR, Amherst)
}and will even re-orient the FM antenna.  But we are lucky we have two to 
}chose from!

An even more annoying trend has begun to evidence itself on our two
local classical stations:  I refer to the tendency to "crowd" the music.
Every piece deserves a second or two of respectful silence at both
ends.  Unfortunately, announcers are starting the music a split second
after announcing the title, and resuming their prattle before the reverb
dies out.  This is a bad habit picked up from rock stations, and should
be actively discouraged.  



-- 

Norm Strong  (strong@tc.fluke.com)
2528 31st S.   Seattle WA 98144   USA