From: gil@Gilsys.DIALix.oz.au (Gil Hardwick)
Newsgroups: sci.environment
Subject: The Criterion for Ecocentrism
Distribution: world
Date: Tue, 10 Nov 92 05:42:49 GMT
Organization: STAFF STRATEGIES - Anthropologists & Training Agents


In article <seyhC9e00UzxE3q4th@andrew.cmu.edu> ss9o+@andrew.cmu.edu writes:

 > We do things a little differently here, Gil. We are so far away from the
 > the notion of property you suggest that I find it hard to respond. You
 > must read our Constitution sometime ? 

Well yes, I expect you do. All I am doing here is exploring *how*
differently you do things there, that what I might have to say to a
world science forum on the environment has some relevance to the
American delegation as we proceed.

 > You might be willing to put the public interest before your own but
 > please don't expect the rest of us to be so disinterested. 

I have not expected anything of you, beyond explaining that we may be
somewhat more pragmatic about our relationship with one another than
you Americans appear to be. Creating a distinction between "society"
and the "individual" appears to create more conflict than it is
worth, and generally speaking we just don't care about it that much.

 > Is this the "royal we" here ? Do you have that much faith in your
 > elected members of Parliament ? No special interests in Australia ? 

I am fully entitled to use the term "we" when as an Australian I am
discussing Australia. Does it disturb you for some reason?

We have a different political system from the US, representing quite
a different distribution of power and making it much easier to bring
politicians back into line. You may notice that the pressure is on
them, not us, where it is in the Houses that the most bitter and
vociferous divisions occur rather than out in the community.

And there are certainly no "special interests" capable of exercising
such power to the public detriment we are unable to rein in without
too much difficulty, as demonstrated during the past five years to
deflate the ballooning economic madness based on such large scale
abuse of credit we experienced during the early 1980s.

The capacity to keep idiots from going too far over the top is a
good thing for a democratic regime to retain, in my book.

 > From an economic standpoint a system with well-defined and enforced
 > property rights is more efficient and, I might add, effective in
 > providing maximal welfare than the "communistic" system you suggest.

Well, that simply remains to be seen, doesn't it? History reveals the
most bitter wars over absolute property rights, not at all providing
welfare to anyone except the few wealthy landholders. However you or
I might might feel about it personally, the tendency of the hungry
populace to overthrow the wealthy propertied classes who have abused
their power is so well documented it is no longer seriously regarded
an issue, even among economists.

There is no "communistic" system here and nowhere have I suggested
such a thing. Australia has always had a mixed economy which strives
to balance enterprise with planning and infrastructure development;
in our view just being sensible about it.

In this context I have done no more than offer a very preliminary
comparison between one system and another, and you can always make
further comparison with any number of other patently non-communist
economies not too dissimilar to ours.

If on the other hand you insist on adhering to some sort of paranoid
"reds under the bed" mentality in responding to anything anyone ever
says to you, I doubt whether anyone will be much interested in you
any more. We have had enough of that mindless crap bringing with it
the bloody deaths of so very many millions of people this century,
and hopefully it is over now.

Think of something new, eh?

--
Gil Hardwick                                      gil@Gilsys.DIALix.oz.au
Independent Consulting Ethnologist                            3:690/660.6
PERTH, Western Australia                                 (+61 9) 399 2401
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