From: ACUS10@WACCVM.SPS.MOT.COM (Mark Fuller)
Subject: Re: Mormons, a different Jesus
Organization: Motorola Inc.
Date: Thu, 15 Oct 1992 16:44:52 GMT

From: jhays@boi.hp.com (John_D. Hays)
> In article <1992Oct14.190632.21593@newsgate.sps.mot.com> ACUS10@WACCVM.SPS.MOT
..
> >The LDS 'description of his mother and the way she conceived' is
> >not the Bible description.  The LDS historically have taught that
> >the 'virgin birth' was merely God the father, an exalted man with
> >a body of flesh and bones, having sex with Mary.  LDS leaders
> >have stated this repeatedly, their is nothing figurative in their
> >language.  Jesus was the son of the Father in a literal way, begot
> >in the same manner we beget children.
> >
>
> Would you get off your sexual hangups...
>
> LDS, do not now, nor have they in the past taught that God the Father
> and Mary had physical sex.
> ... Mary would
> remain a virgin (having been with no man) and yet would carry the

        In historical LDS belief, Mary would have been with an
exalted-man.  God the father having a body of flesh and bones,
as tangible as yours or mine.  The LDS objection to the orthodox
position (of Jesus being conceived miraculously by the Holy Spirit)
was that it must have taken a man to do it.  And that man was the
LDS man-god who birthed Jesus/Jehovah in the pre-existence.

        Matt. 1:23 proclaims, "Behold, a virgin shall be with child, and
shall bring forth a son..." Who is the virgin referred to here, and who
is the Son she would bring forth? Matt. 1:18,21 and Luke 1:27,31,34
reveal that the virgin was Mary, and the Son born of her was Jesus the
Christ. Matt. 1:23 teaches that Mary was not only a virgin before she
conceived, but she was a virgin after as well, and Matt. 1:18,20 and
Luke 1:35 teach that the Son she brought forth was "conceived"
(begotten) of the Holy Ghost.

        Does the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints believe the
Biblical doctrine that Mary was still a virgin after she conceived and
when she gave birth? LDS Apostle and General Authority Bruce R. McConkie
states, "Our Lord is the only mortal person ever born to a virgin,
because he is the only person who ever had an immortal Father."
(Mormon Doctrine, p. 822)

        McConkie clearly states that Jesus was indeed "born to a
virgin." However, when using the term "virgin," does McConkie mean what
Christians mean when they use that word? In the thinking of LDS General
Authorities, those men who define doctrine and lead the church, could
Mary really have been a virgin after she conceived?

---Pre-existent Conception and Birth of Jesus

        To help determine the answer to this question, one must go back
to the beginning, to Mormonism's preexistent, premortal estate.
According to LDS General Authorities, the LDS god is a resurrected,
glorified, exalted man with a tangible body of flesh and bones. He has
many wives with whom he produces millions of spirit children. The first
spirit child begotten and born was Jehovah (known as Jesus Christ in
immortality). Then at some point in celestial time, Lucifer (later known
as Satan), the LDS holy ghost, and all the rest of us were begotten and
born of god. Thus Jesus was the literal spirit brother of Lucifer, all
the other angels-both good and bad-and everyone else. We all lived in
the family unit with Jesus and our mother-god and father-god parents.

  '...God...is a personal Being, a holy and exalted Man, a glorified,
  resurrected Personage having a tangible body of flesh and bones, an
  anthropomorphic Entity...
(Bruce R. McConkie, Mormon Doctrine, p. 250)

  '...God the Father had a plurality of wives, one or more being in
  eternity, by whom he begat our spirits as well as the spirit of Jesus
  His First Born.
(Orson Pratt, The Seer, p. 172)

  '...one hundred and five thousand million...was the approximate number
  of the sons and daughters of God in Heaven...
(Ibid., p. 38)

  'Christ is the Firstborn, meaning that he was the first Spirit Child
  born to God the Father in pre-existence.
(Mormon Doctrine, p. 281)

  'The devil...is a spirit son of God who was born in the morning of
  pre-existence.
(Ibid., p. 192)

  '...the Holy Ghost is a man; he is one of the sons of our Father and
  our God...
(Heber C Kimball, Journal of Discourses, vol. 5, p. 179)

  'All men, Christ included, were born as his [God's] children in
  pre-existence.
(Mormon Doctrine, p. 278)

  '...Lucifer...this spirit-brother of Jesus...
(Milton R. Hunter, The Gospel Through the Ages, p. 15)

  '1. Pre-existent Spirits. -Before men were first placed on this earth,
  there was war in heaven. 'Michael and his angels fought against the
  dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels.' (Rev. 12:7.) All the
  angels here involved were the spirit children of the Father.
(Mormon Doctrine, p. 35)

  'Knowest thou not that eternities ago thy spirit, pure and holy, dwelt
  in thy Heavenly Father's bosom and in His presence, and with thy
  mother, one of the queens of heaven, surrounded by thy brother and
  sister spirits in the spirit world, among the Gods?
(John Taylor, Latter-day Prophets Speak, p. 8)

  'We lived in the Father's presence for millions of years and knew that
  his Firstborn Son [Christ] was next to him in power and might and
  dominion.... We knew him; he was our brother. We associated with him
  in the family unit.
(Bruce R. McConkie, The Promised Messiah, p. 605)

        According to LDS General Authorities, the method by which the
LDS god and his wives produce these spirit children in the preexistent,
premortal estate is sexual relations. Apostle and General Authority
Orson Pratt relates that by practicing "sexual or conjugal
love" (The Seer, p. 154) LDS gods produce "sons and daughters who are the
fruits of their own loins."

  'Heaven, then, is a redeemed glorified world, inhabited by the Gods,
  and by their _sons and daughters_, who are the _fruits of their own
  loins_....
  21. These Gods, being redeemed from the grave _with their wives_, are
  immortal and eternal, and will die no more. But they and their wives
  will be supremely happy. All the endearing ties of _conjugal love
  which existed in their bosoms, when terrestrial and fallen beings, are
  now greatly increased and perfected_ which serve to swell their souls
  with feelings of rapturous delight, and unbounded love towards each
  other, and with joys that are everlasting.
(The Seer, pp. 23-24) (emphasis added)

        Apostle and General Authority Parley P. Pratt states that the
"individual, spiritual body was begotten by the Heavenly Father, in his
own likeness and image, and _by the laws of procreation_." (Key to the
Science of Theology, p. 31) (emphasis added)

        General Authority B.H. Roberts, of the First Council of Seventy,
remarks,

  "...when in our literature we say 'God created the spirits of men,' it
  is understood that they were 'begotten,' We mean 'generation,' _not_
  'creation.'"
(Mormon Doctrine of Deity, p. 260, footnote)

        Apostle and General Authority George Q. Cannon relates:

  'The Mormons believe that all men were born in the spirit world of the
  union of the sexes, having a literal father and a literal mother before
  coming to this world, that the spirits are just the same in appearance
  as the body... The Latter-day Saints believe that God is an exalted
  Man, and that we are the offspring of Him and His wife.
(Gospel Truth, vol. 1, p. 129) (emphasis added)

        It is a tenet of the LDS Church that faithful members will one
day become gods themselves, and then they too will eternally procreate
spirit children through sexual relations just as the LDS god does.
George Q. Cannon expounds,

  'When we talk about celestial glory, we talk of the condition of
  endless increase; if we obtain celestial glory in the fullest sense of
  the word, then we have wives and children in eternity; we have the
  power of endless lives granted unto us, _the power of propagation_
  that will endure through all eternity, all being fathers and mothers
  in eternity...and shall I say more? Yes, all becoming gods. For this
  _is the power of God_; it is the power by which God presides over the
  universe and fills the universe with power and which we pray unto Him
  to bestow upon us.
(Gospel Truth, vol. 1, pp. 103-104) (emphasis added)

  '...the _power of procreation_ is promised--the greatest power that
  man possesses on the earth. That is promised unto those who are
  faithful.
  I know the world say this is materialistic, that we take wrong views
  of this, that we are not spiritual enough. Well, I am willing to have
  that charge levelled against me. _I want to be materialistic in this
  sense_. I want to enjoy _that which we enjoy here_, purified, exalted
  and _increased_ beyond my comprehension or your comprehension at the
  present time...
  ...the principle of procreation. By it and through that principle the
  worlds are peopled.... _the principle of procreation. God possesses it_,
  and we as His children inherit the power. If we do what is right, He
  promises to bestow it upon us.
(Ibid., pp. 118-119) (emphasis added)

        Clearly, these LDS General Authorities teach that the method the
LDS god uses to create spirit bodies in heaven is physical relations
between him and his wives. The LDS Jesus was one of these sexually
begotten preexistent spirit children.

        According to LDS theology, god is not only the literal father of
Jesus' preexistent, spirit body, but he is also the literal father of
his mortal, physical body.

  'Jesus Christ is the Son of Elohim both as spiritual and bodily
  offspring; that is to say, Elohim is _literally the Father of the
  spirit of Jesus Christ and also of the body_ in which Jesus Christ
  performed His mission in the flesh...
(A Doctrinal Exposition by the First Presidency and the Twelve Apostles;
cited in The Articles of Faith, by James E. Talmage, pp. 466-467)
(emphasis added)

--Mortal Conception and Birth of Jesus

        Previous statements by General Authorities teach that the "union
of the sexes" is the LDS god's method of generation in heaven. LDS
Prophet and General Authority Brigham Young says there is no other
method, anywhere, by which man is created.

  'He [God] created man, _as we create our children; for there is no
  other process of creation_ in heaven, on the earth, in the earth, or
  under the earth, or in all the eternities, that is, that were, or that
  ever will be.
(Journal of Discourses, vol. 11, p. 122) (emphasis added)

        Young says that the LDS Jesus was begotten in mortality the same
way the rest of us are.

  'The birth of the Saviour was as natural as are the births of our
  children; it was the result of natural action. He partook of flesh and
  blood--was begotten of his Father, _as we were of our fathers_.
(Journal of Discourses, vol. 8, p. 115) (emphasis added)

        Apostle and General Authority Heber C. Kimball claims that the
conception of the LDS Jesus was accomplished "naturally."

  'In relation to the way in which I look upon the works of God and his
  creatures, I will say that I was _naturally begotten_; so was my
  father, and also _my saviour Jesus Christ_. According to the
  Scriptures, he is the first begotten of his father in the flesh, and
  there was _nothing unnatural about it_.
(Journal of Discourses, vol. 8, p. 211) (emphasis added)

        Brigham Young gives this further information on the conception
of Jesus:

  'Now to the facts in the case; all the difference between Jesus Christ
  and any other man that ever lived on the earth...is simply this...
  When the time came that His first-born, the Saviour, should come into
  the world and take a tabernacle, _the Father came Himself_ and favoured
  that spirit with a tabernacle _instead of letting any other man do
  it_....and that is all the organic difference between Jesus Christ and
  you and me.
(Journal of Discourses, vol. 4, pp. 217-218) (emphasis added)

  '..._the Father came down from heaven_, as the Apostles said he did,
  and begat the Saviour of the world; for he is the ONLY-begotten of the
  Father, which could not be if the Father did not _actually beget him
  in person_.
(Ibid., vol. 1, p. 238) (emphasis added)

        Bruce R. McConkie makes the following statements about the
conception of Jesus:

  'Christ was _begotten_ by an Immortal Father _in the same way_ that
  mortal men are _begotten_ by mortal fathers.
(Mormon Doctrine, p. 547) (emphasis added)

  'God the Father is a perfected, glorified, holy Man, an immortal
  Personage. And Christ was born into the world as the literal Son of
  this Holy Being; he was born in the same personal, real, and literal
  sense that any mortal son is born to a mortal father. There is nothing
  figurative about his paternity; he was _begotten, conceived and born_
  in the _normal and natural course of events_, for he is the Son of
  God, and that designation means what it says. ...
(Ibid., p. 742) (emphasis added)

  'This then is the condescension of God--that a God should beget a man;
  that an Immortal Parent should father a mortal Son; that the Creator
  of all things from the beginning should step down from his high state
  of exaltation and be, for a moment, _like one of the creatures of his
  creating_....
    We have spoken plainly of our Lord's conception in the womb of Mary;
  in reality the plain assertions are found in the revealed word, and we
  have but certified that the words mean what they say and cannot be
  spiritualized away. And as it is with reference to our Lord's mother,
  so it is as pertaining to his Father. The scriptures say that Jesus
  Christ is the Only Begotten Son. The problem is that the
  intellectually led ministry and laity of the day assume, as Satan
  leads them to do, that a name-title of this sort is simply figurative
  and does not have the _same literal meaning as when the words are
  spoken in ordinary conversation._ Perhaps again the best service we
  can render, on the issue here involved, is somehow to get the message
  across that words mean what they say, and that if Christ is the Only
  Begotten of the Father, it means just that.
    Some words scarcely need definition. They are on every tongue and are
  spoken by every voice.... Two such words are _father_ and _son_. Their
  meaning is known to all, and to define them is but to repeat them....
  I am the son of my father and the father of my sons. They are my sons
  because they were begotten by me, were conceived by their mother, and
  came forth from her womb to breathe the breath of mortal life, to
  dwell for a time and a season among other mortal men.
    And so it is with the Eternal Father and the _mortal_ birth of the
  Eternal Son....the Son is...a literal, living offspring of an actual
  Father.... There is _no need to spiritualize away_ the plain meaning
  of the scriptures. There is _nothing figurative or hidden or beyond
  comprehension_ in our Lord's coming into mortality. He is the Son of
  God _in the same sense and way that we are the sons of mortal
  fathers_. It is just that simple.
(The Promised Messiah, pp. 467-468) (most emphasis added)

  'And so, in the final analysis it is the faithful saints, those who
  have testimonies of the truth and divinity of this great latter-day
  work, who declare our Lord's generation to the world. Their testimony
  is that Mary's son is God's Son; that he was _conceived and begotten
  in the normal way_... This is their testimony as to his generation...
(Ibid., p. 473) (emphasis added)

        According to these statements by Bruce R. McConkie, it is
obvious that he believes Jesus was conceived in the "natural" and
"normal way." Orson Pratt sheds the following light on this issue,

  '...it was the personage of the Father who begat the body of Jesus;
  and for this reason Jesus is called "the Only Begotten of the Father;"
  that is, the only one in this world whose fleshly body was _begotten_
  by the Father. _There were millions of sons and daughters whom He
  begat before the foundation of this world, but they were spirits_, and
  not bodies of flesh and bones; whereas, _both the spirit and body of
  Jesus were begotten by the Father_--the spirit having been _begotten
  in heaven_ many ages before the tabernacle was _begotten upon the
  earth_.
   The fleshly body of Jesus required a Mother as well as a Father.
  Therefore, the Father and Mother of Jesus, according to the flesh,
  must have been _associated together in the capacity of Husband and
  Wife_; hence the _Virgin Mary_ must have been, for the time being, the
  _lawful_ wife of God the Father: we use the term _lawful_ Wife,
  because it would be blasphemous in the highest degree to say that He
  _overshadowed her or begat_ the Saviour unlawfully. It would have been
  unlawful for any _man_ to have interfered with Mary, who was already
  espoused to Joseph; for such a heinous crime would have subjected both
  the guilty parties to death, according to the law of Moses. But God
  having created all men and women, had the most perfect right to do
  with His own creation, according to His holy will and pleasure: He had
  a lawful right to _overshadow the Virgin Mary in the capacity of a
  husband_, and _begat_ a Son, although she was espoused to
  another;...
   As God the Father _begat the fleshly body of Jesus_, so _He, before
  the world began, begat his spirit_. As the body required an earthly
  Mother, so _his spirit required a heavenly Mother_. As God associated
  _in the capacity of a husband_ with the _earthly mother, so likewise
  He associated in the same capacity with the heavenly one_. Earthly
  things being in the likeness of heavenly things; and that which is
  temporal being in the likeness of that which is eternal; or, in other
  words, _the laws of generation upon the earth are after the order of
  the laws of generation in heaven_.
(The Seer, pp. 158-159) (most emphasis added)

        The topic of discussion in Pratt's statement is the begetting of
the LDS Jesus both in heaven and on earth. Pratt says that god's method
is the same in both places, because "the laws of generation upon the
earth are after the order of the laws of generation in heaven." "The
laws of generation upon earth" involve the "union of the sexes" just as
they do in heaven.

        When Pratt says that god "overshadowed" the virgin Mary "in the
capacity of a husband" when he "begat" Jesus, he obviously is using
"overshadowed" as a euphemism for a physical, sexual union between the
LDS god and Mary. Pratt says that god not only "associated in the
capacity of a husband" with Mary, but he also "associated in the
capacity of a husband" with Jesus' heavenly mother. It is apparent from
previous statements that when god associates as a husband with the
heavenly mother the "union of the sexes" is the method used to produce
spirit children, including Jehovah-Christ. The same method was used when
god associated "in the capacity of a husband" with Mary to produce the
physical body of Jesus Christ.

        Although Pratt uses the words "Virgin Mary," his explanation
about how both Jesus' spirit body and mortal body were begotten makes it
clear that Mary could not have been a virgin after the conception of
Jesus. Mary would have been a virgin only before her encounter with the
LDS god.

        LDS Apostle and General Authority Erastus Snow gives the
following guideline about reaching conclusions concerning ideas that are
not explicitly stated in Scripture:

  'Now, _it is not said in so many words in the Scriptures_, that we
  have a Mother in heaven as well as a Father. _It is left for us to
  infer this from what we see and know of all living things in the earth
  including man._...
  Hence when it is said that God created our first parents in His
  likeness--"in the image of God created He him; male and female created
  He them"--_it is intimated in language sufficiently plain to my
  understanding_ that the male and female principle was present with the
  Gods as it is with man.
(Journal of Discourses, vol. 26, p. 214) (emphasis added)

        Snow counsels that when the Scriptures do not speak on a
subject, it is perfectly permissible to "infer" things "from what we see
and know of all living things in the earth including man." It can be
inferred from what they have said that he did. The language that LDS
General Authorities have used is "sufficiently plain" to human
understanding to grasp what they meant.

***Appraisal of Bruce R. McConkie's Statement

        Statements by LDS General Authorities, including Bruce R.
McConkie himself, are clear that when McConkie says the LDS Jesus was
"born to a virgin," he does not mean virgin in the same sense of that
word as Christians do.

        One might ask why McConkie even bothers to use this Biblical,
Christian designation of Mary. A couple of reasons can be cited.

        1) It could be that he does it for the benefit of those people
who are not ready to endure the "meat" (mystery) of the mortal
conception of the LDS Jesus. The LDS were warned in 1844 not to give the
"mysteries" even to fellow Latter-day Saints before they are ready to
receive them.

  'And again I say unto you, an elder has no business to undertake to
  preach _mysteries_ in any part of the world, for God has commanded us
  all to preach nothing but the first principles unto the world. Neither
  has any elder any authority to preach any _mysterious_ thing _to any
  branch of the church_ unless he has a direct commandment from God to
  do so. Let the matter of the grand councils of heaven, and the making
  of gods, worlds, and devils _entirely alone_: for you are not called
  to teach any such doctrine--for _neither you nor the people are
  capacitated to understand any such principles_--less so to teach them.
  For when God commands men to teach such principles the saints will
  receive them. Therefore beware what you teach! for the _mysteries_ of
  God are not given to all men; and _unto those to whom they are given
  they are placed under restrictions to impart only such as God will
  command them_; and the residue is to be kept in a faithful breast,
  otherwise he will be brought under condemnation. By this God will
  prove his faithful servants, who will be called and numbered _with the
  chosen_.
(Times and Seasons, vol. 5, p. 474, stated by Hyrum Smith [Joseph's
brother] on March 15,1844) (most emphasis added)

        Doctrine and Covenants 19:21-22 cautions Martin Harris to give
only the "milk," not the "meat," to people, "lest they perish."

  'And I command you that you preach naught but repentance, and show not
  these things unto the world until it is wisdom in me. For they cannot
  bear _meat now_, but milk they must receive; wherefore, they must not
  know these things, lest they perish. (emphasis added)

        Regarding LDS secrets, Brigham Young relates the following:

  '...never betray a thing that God tells you...never reveal to your
  neighbour that which ought not to be revealed...know when to speak and
  what to speak, what to reveal, and how to carry yourselves and walk
  before the Lord. And just as fast as you prove to Him that you will
  _preserve everything secret that ought to be_--that you will deal out
  to your neighbours all which you ought, and no more, and learn how to
  dispense your knowledge to your families, friends, neighbours, and
  brethren, the Lord will bestow upon you...
  ...I say this that you may learn to reveal that which you ought, and
  to keep the rest to yourselves. By so doing _you prove to God that
  you_ are His friends, and _will keep His secrets_.
  The world may howl around you and plead for the secrets of the Lord
  which he has given you, but they will not get them. (Journal of
  Discourses, vol. 4, pp. 371- 372) (emphasis added)

        Apostle and General Authority Joseph Fielding Smith received a
letter which was written on March 17,1963, by Mr. J. Ricks Smith. Mr.
Smith asked if the sentence "he shall see his seed" in Isa. 53:10 meant
"that Christ had children?" Joseph Fielding Smith answered, "Yes! But do
not preach it! The Lord advised us not to cast pearls before swine!"

        2) Another possible reason for McConkie's use of the word
"virgin" could be to make LDS doctrine seem Christian to the uninformed.
The LDS Church uses Christian words, but redefines those words and gives
them different, unChristian meanings. The words God, Jesus Christ,
Salvation by Grace, heaven, and hell are five such words; so is the word
_virgin_.

        Take the word God for example. Bruce R. McConkie says the LDS
god is "omnipotent."

  'God is omnipotent...Omnipotence consists in having unlimited power,
  and God has all power, and there is no power which he does not have.
(Mormon Doctrine, p. 544)

        While on the one hand McConkie says the LDS god is
omnipotent--that he has "all power, and there is no power which he does
not have"--on the other hand, he says god cannot create matter or
element.

  '..._matter or element is self-existent and eternal in nature_,
  creation being merely the organization and reorganization of that
  substance which "_was not created or made, neither indeed can be_."
  (D&C. 93:29.)
(Mormon Doctrine, p. 589) (emphasis added)

        Regarding this point, Parley P. Pratt states: "Matter and spirit
are of equal duration; both are self-existent,--they never began to
exist, and they never can be annihilated.... _it is...impossible for God
to bring forth matter from nonentity, or to originate element from
nothing_, because this would contradict the law of truth, and destroy
himself.... it is not in the power of any being to originate matter.
Hence we conclude that matter as well as spirit is eternal, uncreated,
self- existing.
(Pre-Assasination Writings of Parley P. Pratt, "Heaven on Earth," pp.
5,6) (emphasis added)

        Not only can the LDS god not create matter or element, but he
also cannot create the spirit of man. According to Joseph Smith, Jr.,
"...God never had the power to create the spirit of man at all."
(Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith, p. 354)

        Clearly, the LDS god is _not_ omnipotent. Therefore, when
McConkie says he is omnipotent, he does not mean what Christians mean.
Although McConkie uses the same word that Christians use, he and other
General Authorities have redefined the word and have given it a
different, unChristian meaning. The same can be said for the word
"virgin." McConkie's statement that Jesus was "born to a virgin" falls
into the same category as his statement that god is "omnipotent." Just
as McConkie says god is omnipotent, but he really is not, he says there
was a virgin birth, but there really was not.

---Jesus Not Begotten of Holy Ghost

        Although the Bible says that Jesus was "conceived" (begotten) of
the Holy Ghost, LDS General Authorities disagree. For example, Brigham
Young remarks,

  'When the Virgin Mary conceived the child Jesus, the Father had
  begotten him in his own likeness. He was _not_ begotten by the Holy
  Ghost....
  ...Now, remember from this time forth, and for ever, that Jesus Christ
  was _not_ begotten by the Holy Ghost.
(Journal of Discourses, vol. 1, pp. 50,51)

        According to LDS General Authorities, although Mary did not
conceive by the LDS holy ghost, he was present at the conception of
Jesus. Certainly, one must ask why? According to Joseph Fielding Smith,
the holy ghost had to overshadow Mary to prepare her to endure the
father's presence.

  '...the Holy Ghost is the messenger of the Father and the Son. Mortal
  beings could not endure the presence of the Father _without the Spirit
  overshadowing them_, and that was the mission of the Holy Ghost, but
  not to beget the Son of God, that was the business of the Father.
  Jesus Christ _is_ the Only Begotten Son of God the Father in the
  flesh...
(Answers to Gospel Questions, vol. 5, p. 128) (most emphasis added)

        According to Bruce R. McConkie, it was necessary for the holy
ghost to overshadow Mary because the conception took place by his power.

  'Mary, his mother, "was carried away in the Spirit" (1Ne. 11:13-21),
  was _"overshadowed" by the Holy Ghost_, and the conception which took
  place "by the _power of the Holy Ghost_" resulted in the bringing
  forth of the literal and personal Son of God the Father.
(Mormon Doctrine, p. 822) (most emphasis added)

        In explaining Luke 1:37, Orson Pratt claims that the holy ghost
"came upon Mary to sanctify her, and make her holy, and prepare her to
endure the glorious presence of 'the Highest"' so that "when 'He' should
'overshadow' her she might conceive, being filled with the Holy Ghost."
Pratt also claims that the holy ghost "gave her strength to abide the
presence of the Father without being consumed."

  'We are informed in the first chapter of Luke, that Mary was chosen by
  the Father as a choice virgin, through whom He begat Jesus. The angel
  said unto the Virgin Mary, "The Holy Ghost shall come upon thee, and
  the power of the Highest shall overshadow thee: therefore, also, that
  holy thing which shall be born of thee shall be called the Son of
  God." After the power of the Highest had _overshadowed_ Mary, and she
  had _by that means conceived_, she related the circumstance to her
  cousin Elizabeth in the following words: "He that is Mighty hath done
  to me great things; and holy is His name." It seems from this relation
  that _the Holy Ghost accompanied "the Highest" when He overshadowed
  the Virgin Mary and begat Jesus_; and from this circumstance some have
  supposed that the body of Jesus was begotten of the Holy Ghost without
  the instrumentality of the _immediate presence_ of the Father. There
  is no doubt that _the Holy Ghost came upon Mary_ to sanctify her, and
  make her holy, and prepare her to endure the glorious presence of "the
  Highest," that when "He" should "_overshadow_" her _she might
  conceive, being filled with the Holy Ghost_; hence the angel said, as
  recorded in Matthew, "That which is conceived in her is of the Holy
  Ghost;" that is, the Holy Ghost gave her strength to abide the
  presence of the Father without being consumed...
(The Seer, p. 158) (emphasis added)

        These explanations by General Authorities certainly raise
questions in the minds of those people who understand LDS teachings
about the holy ghost. He is a literal spirit man whose spirit body has
all the parts of a mortal body, and he cannot be transformed into any
other form or image. He is waiting to take upon himself a body of flesh
and bones to continue his progression to full and complete godhood.

  'Our spirit bodies...have all the parts of mortal bodies.
(Bruce R. McConkie, Mormon Doctrine, p. 750)

  'The Holy Ghost...is a Personage of Spirit, a Spirit Person, a Spirit
  Man, a Spirit Entity. He can be in only one place at one time, and he
  does not and cannot transform himself into any other form or image
  than that of the Man whom he is...
(Ibid., p. 359)

  But the Holy Ghost is yet a spiritual body and waiting to take to
  himself a body as the Saviour did or as God did or the gods before
  them took bodies.
(Joseph Smith, Jr., Discourses on the Holy Ghost, p. 73)

        It is apparent from an earlier statement by Orson Pratt that the
word "overshadowed" means physical, sexual relations. Therefore, one
must ask why the holy ghost (a spirit man with a spirit body that has
all the parts of a mortal body) needed to "overshadow" and "come upon"
the virgin Mary before god (a physical man with a tangible body of flesh
and bones) "overshadowed" her in the capacity of a husband to beget
Jesus in the same way we are begotten. Why did two men, the holy ghost
and god, have to "overshadow" Mary to produce the mortal body for Jesus?

        Although members of the LDS Church use the Biblical, Christian
word "virgin" when referring to the birth of Christ, according to
statements by LDS General Authorities (those men who define doctrine for
the church), Mary could not have been a virgin after she conceived.
Therefore, the LDS cannot proclaim as Christians do, "Behold, a virgin
shall be with child, and shall bring forth a son."


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