HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: smee@bristol.ac.uk (Paul Smee)
Newsgroups: rec.skiing
Subject: Re: Flat Light (was: Begginer deals)
Date: 11 Sep 92 14:27:57 GMT
Reply-To: P.Smee@bristol.ac.uk (Paul Smee)
Organization: University of Bristol

In article <14577@auspex-gw.auspex.com> johnf@Auspex.COM (John Fereira) writes:
>So far I've seen several references to skiing in whiteouts (I've been in
>the same situation that the poster from Scotland described and it's scary)
>and a brief discussion about technique but I've got something to add.  
>
>It's really easy and will help when skiing in flat light or heavy snow. 
>Don't ski down the middle of the run.  Stay off the the right or left near
>the trees.  They'll give you more perspective on what the terrain is doing.
>
>Better yet,  when it starts snowing stay inside.  Yea, that's it.  You don`t
>want to be out there when it's snowing. It's dangerous. Yea.

If you can see the trees, there's no problem if you're a reasonable
skiier, que no?  It's when you can't tell where the edge of the trail
is, you can't see from one piste marker pole to the next, and
(sometimes) you can't even see the ground under your feet, that there's
a problem.

I like to believe that *I* can cope with that, of course -- though I
may be fooling myself -- but it's extremely non-relaxing wondering
whether the dive-bombing idiot who you KNOW was behind you in the
liftline, and so who is now behind you on the slope, will manage to
come down without wiping you out in the process.  (I give them all the
help I can, of course, with seriously glow-in-the-dark skiwear, but...)

I have a friend who stayed out in that a few years ago.  He was zipping
down the hill, hit a dense fog patch, didn't slow down (because he
'knew' which way the piste went there, and he knew he had to keep his
speed up to get over a short rise which he remembered was coming up),
and the next thing he knew he was being peeled off a very large rock by
the ski patrol.  

He never saw it coming, and didn't even realize he'd strayed off the
piste.  Broken legs and pelvis, crutches for a long time.  Losing a
day's skiing because of untenable weather conditions is a lot more fun
than losing a couple of years skiing because your bones aren't all
pinned back together properly yet.  My own plans involve me skiing 
until I'm too old to stand up any more, and so they don't strongly
feature the idea of breaking myself early because of worrying that
people will think I'm non-macho if I take such a day off.

It's like driving, you shouldn't be going so fast that you can't stop
in the distance you can see.  From which it follows that if you can't
see at all, you shouldn't be out there.

-- 
Paul Smee, Computing Service, University of Bristol, Bristol BS8 1UD, UK
 P.Smee@bristol.ac.uk - ..!uunet!uknet!bsmail!p.smee - Tel +44 272 303132
Newsgroups: rec.skiing
From: eugene@wilbur.nas.nasa.gov (Eugene N. Miya)
Subject: Re: FAQ error: Closed Areas
Organization: NAS, NASA Ames Research Center, Moffett Field, CA
Date: Thu, 10 Sep 92 20:45:14 GMT

In article <1340327@hpnmdla.sr.hp.com> glenb@hpnmdla.sr.hp.com
(Glen Baker) writes:
>   Honestly though, the penalties may
>   be the least of your worries. Getting killed should be on your mind.
...
> Closed areas generate a lot of animosity among people who want to ski
> there and can't understand why they're not open.

Evolution in Action.

--eugene miya, NASA Ames Research Center, eugene@orville.nas.nasa.gov
  Acting Associate Editor, Software and Publication Reviews
  Scientific Programming
  {uunet,mailrus,other gateways}!ames!eugene
Ref: Mathematics and Plausible Reasoning, vol. 1, G. Polya
Newsgroups: rec.skiing
From: mr@delfin.com (Mark Rosenberg)
Subject: Telemark pole plants
Reply-To: mark@delfin.com
Organization: Delfin Systems, Sunnyvale CA
Date: Wed, 9 Sep 1992 17:36:32 GMT

Somebody posted recently that pinheads haven't been posting to the net very
much. Here's my contribution:

Question:

What is the best way to use poles when telemarking? Steve Barnett's book
says that the telemark is an extension of the diagonal stride so the
uphill pole should be planted to assist in the ski lead change. Paul Parker
says (in Free-heel Skiing) that pole technique for telemarking and
parallel skiing are the same -- reach down the hill with the downhill pole
in order to keep your upper body facing down the hill.

My 2 cents worth:

It is unproductive to be dogmatic about this. When skiing deep powder or
bumps or when skiing fast, alpine-style downhill plants work best.
When skiing breakable crust or other nasty conditions or when skiing slowly,
uphill or double pole plants can be very effective.



Newsgroups: rec.skiing
From: sergei@is.morgan.com (Sergei Poliakoff)
Subject: Re: Beginner/Black Diamond runs
Organization: Morgan Stanley - IS
Date: Mon, 14 Sep 1992 12:20:39 GMT

|> A beginner has no business on an advanced run. That is, if it is truely
|> and advanced run.  Have you ever looked at a large bowl where many of the
|> skiers will traverse into the bowl perpendicular to the fall line until
|> the get to the other side and then turn and traverse across in the other
|> direction?  This makes what some call "turkey tracks".  What it does is
|> ruin the line down the fall line for those that want/can make linked turns.
|> It makes it more difficult for everyone to ski the run.  It's discourteous.

Out of academical  interest, haven't it occured to you that  fall-line
skiers make life quite inconvenient for turkey-trackers ?
If turkey-tracking is the safe way to descend the mountain, it is 
as legitimate a style as linked turns down the fall line. In fact, in 
the right numerical circumstances, you may be asked to  stop ruining 
turkey tracks by skiing across them and making life more difficult for 
the majority.
I never had problems with beginners on expert terrain : they always 
get quite respectful of the real challenge.  When they actually
become dangerous  is lower-intermediate  and beginner trails, when they
unwind from tense mogul-ridden descends. 
As far as turkey-tracking and snow-plowing down the expert trail : well,
such characters usually ski in good control, learning to overcome the
fear of the steepness by reverting to  the basic skill. Everybody has to
start somewhere somehow, and wide open bowl is a perfect place
(in my observation , the fear of skiing off the edge of the trail 
by far prevails over the fear of just falling).
What I see A LOT is experts harassing these slow-moving learners 
by using them as course obstacles, skiing dangerously close .
As far as I am concerned, these expert bullies are the real menace,
and I never miss an opportunity to skewer a few on a pole after they
take blind jumps : its really simple , on a good day I have 2-3 scalps
by lunchtime ...

Sergei






Newsgroups: rec.skiing
From: eugene@wilbur.nas.nasa.gov (Eugene N. Miya)
Subject: Re: Flat Light
Organization: NAS, NASA Ames Research Center, Moffett Field, CA
Date: Wed, 9 Sep 92 07:01:08 GMT

In article <1992Sep9.032753.13448@xyzoom.info.com>
rob@xyzoom.info.com (Rob Lingelbach) writes:
>In article <1340326@hpnmdla.sr.hp.com> glenb@hpnmdla.sr.hp.com
(Glen Baker) writes: an honest description:
>>> If it is snowing [Squaw is] a rotten place to learn though.  Wind and
>>> flat light are a beginner's worst enemy. 

>Could someone explain to this neophyte "flat light"?  I presume it
>means lack of shadow, or relief--rendering bumps and holes less
>visible.

You hit it on the head.  A condition of white out.
The light is technically isotrophic (equal in all directions).  You might be
in a fog/cloud such that the light reflecting off the snow is the same
brightness as is bouncing around in the fog.  You typically are in an area
lacking features like rocks or trees (very useful).  What do you have left?
You, your skis a little snow.  You may or may not have a solar disk.
In a matter of seconds you can become disoriented, some people lose
the zenith (up).  A few will fall.  Non-skiing, non-snow residents and novices
may not believe such conditions exist.  Falls on the unwary.  Contributes
to climbing fatalities.  Somes times best just to wait it out
(one Caltech geologist did this recently).  Particular bad when say
glacier skiing like in the Alps (crevices and seracs a problem).
Also useful for studying space sickness.  Amazing how our balance is
cued to our optical system.  Just hold a ski pole so that gravity points down.
That will help 90% of you.  The other ten will panic regardless.

--eugene miya, NASA Ames Research Center, eugene@orville.nas.nasa.gov
  Acting Associate Editor, Software and Publication Reviews
  Scientific Programming
  {uunet,mailrus,other gateways}!ames!eugene
Ref: Mathematics and Plausible Reasoning, vol. 1, G. Polya
Newsgroups: rec.skiing
Subject: Re: Flat Light
From: dgold@basso.actrix.gen.nz (Dale Gold)
Date: 15 Sep 92 19:03:21 PST
 <1992Sep9.032753.13448@xyzoom.info.com><1992Sep9.070108.4776@nas.nasa.gov>
Organization: New Zealand Symphony Orchestra

Quoted from <1992Sep9.070108.4776@nas.nasa.gov> by eugene@wilbur.nas.nasa.gov (Eugene N. Miya):
> In article <1992Sep9.032753.13448@xyzoom.info.com>
> rob@xyzoom.info.com (Rob Lingelbach) writes:
> >In article <1340326@hpnmdla.sr.hp.com> glenb@hpnmdla.sr.hp.com
> (Glen Baker) writes: an honest description:
> >>> If it is snowing [Squaw is] a rotten place to learn though.  Wind and
> >>> flat light are a beginner's worst enemy. 
> 
> >Could someone explain to this neophyte "flat light"?  I presume it
> >means lack of shadow, or relief--rendering bumps and holes less
> >visible.
> 
> The light is technically isotrophic (equal in all directions).

Thanks Eugene, that will be very comforting in the future :-)

Conditions like this are particularly aggravating in New Zealand, where
virtually all skiing takes place above the treeline - you don't have the
option of skiing along the edge of the trees for a bit of perspective, 
and I've often had the giddy experience of finding that Down has suddenly
become Up.  Or vice-versa...

I first struck these conditions as a stiff-legged novice in the company of
my expert backcountry-skiing girlfriend.  "Just relax and trust your feet."
she said.  "This is good for you!" I couldn't believe it at the time, but a
few years down the line, as a more relaxed skiier with a little bit of
technique, I know that she was right - as long as you stick to familiar
groomed runs :-)  It can be a nice surreal experience, and the lack of lift
queues makes it well worth the aggro!

> Also useful for studying space sickness.  Amazing how our balance is
> cued to our optical system.  

Yep.  Now that I've learned to relax, and can almost keep up with Georgia
under normal conditions, in white-out, she finds herself feeling nauseous
and dizzy while I enjoy the rare gratification of skiing in front of her.

Just as an aside, my son was just at a club field in NZ, and after a storm
had passed, the weather cleared and he went skiing by moonlight in fresh
powder til 1 AM.  The hardened little 13 year old was almost waxing poetic
on the phone last night.

Cheers,
Dale
--
- dgold@basso.actrix.gen.nz
- Korokoro, New Zealand
From: RiViT@cup.portal.com (Russell Michael VanTassell)
Newsgroups: rec.juggling
Subject: Re: Beard brand clubs--opinions wanted
Date: Fri, 11 Sep 92 13:54:45 PDT
Organization: The Portal System (TM)
  <BuEHB5.CsL@usenet.ucs.indiana.edu>

> In article <1992Sep11.044208.24876@cc.uow.edu.au> mcelwee@wampyr.cc.uow.edu.a
u 
> (Bennett) writes:
> >OK, there's this guy, see, who has these clubs.  He says they are made by
> >"Beard", from the UK.  They are truly beautiful, the softest, nicest handles
> >I have ever, erm, handled.  I'd never heard of Beard before.  Does anyone kn
ow
> >anything about them?
> >
> >He also said that Todd Smith clubs were the best thet he had used--are they
> >that good?

Well, I use TS's and think they're pretty nice.  They've lasted me <many>
years of plain abuse and still come back from more.  I haven't broken one
yet (yes, plenty of <high> drops, too) but the nice metallic film is starting
to flake off and unwrap in spots.

The only thing I don't like about them... their long handles (at least mine)
are not a standard size - they're a good half or three quarters off.  This
kind of makes passing interesting (so I'm not professional - big deal) - but
then again, passing with them and a set of airflights is <really> interesting,
too.

All in all (IMO), TS's are almost identical to Dube's - except for the fact
that their "standard lengthes" are all different.

> well, since you asked...
> 

[bunch of stuff deleted]

> i didn't much like either of them
> they are better than jugglebug but
> for the money
> i think i would prefer a set of dube' glo-in-the-dark airflights
> maybe the hot pink ones

That's not saying <too> much, though.  Personally, I HATE Jugglebug -
I've always found their products inferior to that of Dube, Todd Smith,
or Renegade (and usually just as expensive).

I'd like to get a hold of those glow-in-the-dark neon airflights, though.
Just for the fun of it, I guess...  probably a lot safer than the torches,
too!

> they are less expensive, and you can juggle them in the water
> (which is a plus, in banyoles
> where it is glorious to juggle lake-side
> in the heat of the day
> and retrieving the drops is refreshing)

Try juggling while standing in a canoe... makes under the leg moves
a bit more entertaining.  <splash>

> the renegade (*snicker*) stage club was a big hit over there!
> people drooled over the candy colors and ludicrously boob-like design
> so after they have cut their milk teeth on this larger, safer, softer
> cartoon type club

A pretty cool club - even though it looks like a battlecruiser.  It's
always interesting when you see someone with clubs that <those> look
skinny...

Russell

russ@mce.com
RiViT@cup.portal.com
From: ajl@ecs.soton.ac.uk (Lewis AJ)
Newsgroups: rec.juggling
Subject: Re: Burke's Barrage
Date: 7 Sep 92 10:35:49 GMT

In <12739@ecs.soton.ac.uk> I wrote:

[a load of stuff about Burke's Barrage]

I've just found a description in the fall-91 issue of Juggler's world
that's stored on moocow - it's a reproduction of the description in
a book called "Beyond the Cascade" (which I think I'll buy as soon as
I can find it) - I think this must've been where the guy who taught it
to me learned it from. Check it out - its much clearer than my
attempt.

Andy
-- 
Andy Lewis  (ajl@ecs.soton.ac.uk)
Department of Electronics and Computer Science
University of Southampton
Newsgroups: rec.juggling
From: duane@morgan.ucs.mun.ca (Duane Starcher)
Subject: Club members
Organization: Memorial University of Newfoundland
Date: Fri, 11 Sep 1992 14:54:19 GMT

	We, too, have a very small group of jugglers and few new members
each year.  Those that have joined us have always been self-selected
and have had the kinds of personalities that did not inhibit them from
coming around and staring and grinning until one of us grinned back and
got them involved.  This normally has taken only a few moments in each
case.  I say they are self-selected because they have all had a
predisposition to try the new, to feel silly while learning and to enjoy
the company of others who seem somewhat like themselves.  This has been
the case whether they could already juggle or not and applies to males
and females equally, though we have had only a few females stay with the
group for long.

	The whole business of public failure is central.  I teach music
and introductory art as well as help people learn to free-view stereo
photographs.  I am sorry to report that the percentage of people whose
first response is "Oh, I can't do that!" or worse, "I could never to
that!" is very high indeed.  If you can get one-on-one with them and
fail a few times while teaching them, a fair number get over their
attitude and the younger they are, the easier it is to teach at least
the basic cascade.  Those who will carry on to tricks and other props
are a small sub-set or a different type of person in the first place.

	Something similar happens in music.  There are many people who
know the "three-chord trick" on the guitar or took piano or violin
lessons, but who don't progress beyond the basics.  I'm sure there are
many reasons, but, like juggling, it has to do with a kind of
self-discipline that is probably impossible to teach, except to identify
it and hold it up as a choice most people can make if they find the have
the basic interest.

	There are advantages to a large club -- more people to learn
from, more people to play with and the likelihood that someone else will
turn up at any scheduled time.  But I doubt that one can
artificially build a club by teaching courses in juggling to any age or
educational group.  Like players in an amateur orchestra, choir, dance
or drama group, its members will self-select.  About all we can do
is make our groups known and available to the wierdos like ourselves who
spend their time and effort playing with their limits and deficiencies in
front of others who likely have better things to do in their lives.
                                                      
Duane Starcher             *             a               a      
Memorial University        S           n                n  
St. John's, Newfoundland   T               d                 d
Canada                     E         a               a   
                           R           _  _a           _   _a
                           E           0 /             0  /  
(duane@morgan.ucs.mun.ca)  O        C_/@           C_/ @ 
                           *           |               |
                                O    _/ \_        O  _/ \_
From: burtp@aix.rpi.edu (Philip Nason Burt)
Subject: Re: Cheap beanbags
Organization: Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute, Troy, NY
Date: Tue, 15 Sep 1992 17:12:32 GMT

In article <1992Sep14.211055.16154@morgan.ucs.mun.ca> duane@morgan.ucs.mun.ca (Duane Starcher) writes:
>Cooper street hockey balls they sell.  Maybe you can bargain for a bulk
>discount.  Get each class member to cut a small incision in each ball
>and fill it with 4.5 or even 5 ounces of dry rice, popcorn or some other
>grain.   Use a small funnel and a small dowel to ram the filler home.
>Glue the cuts shut and you have great balls for learning.
>

This is an interesting idea!  I have done the same thing with tenis
balls.  I haven't figured out how to seal them up again though (the
rice occasionaly spills out a little).  You can get dead balls from
health clubs (they usualy sell them back to the manufacturer) for
about 5 cents (US) a piece.  The rice gives the balls some added
weight as well as preventing them from rolling and bouncing all over
the place.  Let me know if you have any ideas for sealing them up
again.

******************************************************************************
*    ><>        phil burt        <><    *            burtp@rpi.edu           *
******************************************************************************

"If clouds are full of water,
	they pour rain upon the earth.
Whether a tree falls to the south or to the north,
	in the place where it falls, there will it lie."

Ecclesiastes 11:3

(profound  -  isn't it!)
From: RiViT@cup.portal.com (Russell Michael VanTassell)
Newsgroups: rec.juggling
Subject: Re: what's the name of that pattern...
Date: Wed,  9 Sep 92 23:46:50 PDT
Organization: The Portal System (TM)

> it's the two-person pattern where *every* throw, left and right hands, is a
> pass straight across to your partner, such that your right hand and his/her
> left hand are cascading the three clubs (albeit in sort of an odd manner) and
> the same thing is happening in your left hand and his/her right.  the clubs
> never switch sides, so you have two independant cascades going between your
> pairs of hands.  
> anyway, someone *must* have thought of this before, and it *must* have a nnam
e,
> so what is it?

I call it:  "Two Cascades (The Hard Way)"

Russell
Newsgroups: rec.juggling
From: duane@morgan.ucs.mun.ca (Duane Starcher)
Subject: Re: Dan Menendez
Organization: Memorial University of Newfoundland
Date: Fri, 11 Sep 1992 11:33:32 GMT

>  I don't
>want to take anything away from Menendez, because he's a good showman
>and an excellent juggler, but it does annoy me that things are not as he
>presents them to be.  
>
>-Ben

	Many aspects of show biz are based on things not being what they
are presented to be.  Try costuming, lighting, BG music, tricks to
solicit applause for short runs of standard tricks ... the whole
practice of stage magic ... the list is endless.  Menendez is a fine
performer.  That is all he purports to be.
                                                      
Duane Starcher             *             a               a      
Memorial University        S           n                n  
St. John's, Newfoundland   T               d                 d
Canada                     E         a               a   
                           R           _  _a           _   _a
                           E           0 /             0  /  
(duane@morgan.ucs.mun.ca)  O        C_/@           C_/ @ 
                           *           |               |
                                O    _/ \_        O  _/ \_


Newsgroups: rec.juggling
From: miguel@aclcb.purdue.edu (PHILLIP_SANMIGUEL)
Subject: Re: Club members
Reply-To: miguel@aclcb.purdue.edu
Organization: Purdue University AIDS Center
Date: Fri, 11 Sep 1992 16:50:11 GMT

In article <1992Sep11.145419.8307@morgan.ucs.mun.ca>, duane@morgan.ucs.mun.ca (Duane Starcher) writes:
>
>				.
>				.
>				.
>But I doubt that one can
>artificially build a club by teaching courses in juggling to any age or
>educational group.  Like players in an amateur orchestra, choir, dance
>or drama group, its members will self-select.  About all we can do
>is make our groups known and available to the wierdos like ourselves who
>spend their time and effort playing with their limits and deficiencies in
>front of others who likely have better things to do in their lives.


	I disagree.  Yes, there will be some "self-selection".  But by 
"teaching courses in juggling" a club will enrich the nearby population for 
people who will survive that selection.
	I think you may be rationalizing a bit here, Duane.  Your manner of 
thinking seems to be "there's nothing wrong with my club, most people don't 
stick around because that's the way the world is."
	I should add I think Steve Ragatz's attitude is perfectly 
legitimate.  If you have no interest in increasing the size of your club, 
then don't waste your time with this stuff.  

 
                                    _            _
__________________________  _      (_)  ________(_)________________________
Phillip SanMiguel        _/  \     /  \  Purdue University Juggling Club
miguel@aclcb.purdue.edu (_)   \   /    |   *Juggling*Unicycling*COMBAT*
         _               |      x    _ | 1001 Stewart Center, Box 665
________(_)______________ \_ _ / \ _(_) _West_Lafayette,_Indiana__47907-1001
From: bsp10@cd.amdahl.com (Byong Pak)
Newsgroups: rec.juggling
Subject: Re: Cheap beanbags
Date: 15 Sep 92 20:40:45 GMT
Reply-To: bsp10@duts.ccc.amdahl.com
Organization: Amdahl Corporation, Sunnyvale CA

Another solution is to find old tennis balls and a hyperdermic and fill them
with water.  This comes about the right weight and size.

Byong
-- 
* Byong "the pakman" Pak             * These opinions are my own and do *
*        aka                         *   not reflect the opinions or    *
*  email:  bsp10@duts.ccc.amdahl.com *    policies of Amdahl Corp.      *
*  phone:  408-746-7871              *                                  *
Newsgroups: rec.juggling