HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: amz@iguana.cis.ohio-state.edu (Arnold M Zwicky)
Subject: Re: I HATE GAY MEN.
Followup-To: soc.motss
Summary: we are all slurred
Organization: ohio state dept of lx
Date: Thu, 30 Jul 1992 21:39:05 GMT

like steve dyer, i thought we were all slurred by this effusion of
distaste.  i had the same reaction to the following personals ad in
the "men seeking men" section in _columbus alive_  (an alternative,
but not specifically lesbigay, paper):

             UNGAY GAY
  GWM, 22, college student, feels disgusted by the
  effeminacy and crudeness typical of gays, am looking
  for someone else who is not at home among them.

[i omit the box and voicemail numbers.  if you really want this
guy, you'll have to find your own copy of _columbus alive_.]

this is way beyond the "straight-appearing" and "no fats or fems"
stuff.  it says faggots are *typically* distasteful, at least
according to this idjit's taste.  which is what the I HATE GAY
MEN garbage said.

ordinarily i wouldn't distribute this sort of trash.  but i'd like to
use this occasion to speak on behalf of crudeness (perhaps i am
preaching to the choir here, but let's hear it for sleaze, raunch, and
dirtiness!), and to ask for some words in celebration of effeminacy
(which i find subtly but significantly attractive in other gay men -
surely others can praise these pleasures better than i can?)

the mantra is: throw it back in their faces.

arnold (who worried for a moment that the writer of that ad had
          gotten untouched through one of his classes, then realized
          that at a university with 56,000 - or whatever the humongous
          number is at the moment - students, the chances were very
          small indeed; and who celebrates not only raunch and sleaze
          but also elegance, balance, lightness, and good clean lines,
          and notes that the two sets of values can coexist quite
          happily, as they do every day for most of us [no one said
          you had to make *JUST* *ONE* *CHOICE*])


Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: ry@cbnewsl.cb.att.com (ryerson.schwark)
Subject: Re: *BIG* *RED* *JOBS*
Organization: UNIX System Laboratories, Summit, NJ
Date: Tue, 28 Jul 1992 15:51:23 GMT

In article <skillette@vadier.gr.osf.org> emcmanus@gr.osf.org (Eamonn McManus) writes:
>U.S. Citizenship is a skill?  Does that mean if I practice hard enough
>I can become a Citizen of the World's Greatest Democracy too?
>,
>Eamonn, wide-eyed

You think you're wide-eyed now?  Just wait until the lessons start.

Grandmama
ry@usl.com

Newsgroups: soc.motss,rec.arts.tv,rec.arts.tv.uk,rec.arts.tv.soaps,soc.bi,alt.politics.homosexuality
From: suopanki@zombie.oulu.fi (Heikki Suopanki)
Subject: Re: Do You Remember any Gay/Lesbian Characters on TV Series?
Reply-To: suopanki@phoenix.oulu.fi
In-reply-to: wyatt@ccu.umanitoba.ca 's message of Mon, 20 Jul 1992 19:02:03 GMT
Organization: Unixverstas Olutensin, Finlandia
Date: 22 Jul 92 02:40:51

>>>>> On Mon, 20 Jul 1992 19:02:03 GMT, wyatt@ccu.umanitoba.ca  said:
>    For a while now I have been trying to compile a list of television programs 
> that have included gay/lesbian characters as a part of their regular (or 
> semi-regular) casts.  Many shows have "dealt" with gays in a single episode or 
> story line, but just how many have included gays on a regular (or recurring) 
> basis?  My intention is to keep the list to network and widely-syndicated 
> entertainment shows in the English language.   This includes shows seen on 
> broadcast or cable television nationally (or very widely) in the United States,
> Canada, the United Kingdom, Australia and/or other English-speaking nations.

Any good reason why in English language only and in English-speaking
countries only?

-Heikki

--
                                                                .0.0.
                         Have you fucked your wolf today?        _U_

Heikki Suopanki, Oulu Finland, I don't run a BBS.
From: schiles@martini.us.oracle.com (Suzanne Chiles)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: Gay Staffer leaves Bush Campaign
Date: 24 Jul 92 17:20:40 GMT
Reply-To: schiles@martini.us.oracle.com (Suzanne Chiles)
Organization: Oracle Corp., Redwood Shores CA
X-Disclaimer: This message was written by an unauthenticated user
              at Oracle Corporation.  The opinions expressed are those
              of the user and not necessarily those of Oracle.

Time of broadcast aside, I would imagine most thinking folk to have much
higher regard for Ted Koppel's Nightline than whatever their prime-time
news magazine aka National Enquirer show is.  I, for one, am much
happier to see the story broadcast when and where it was.
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: pst@csd4.csd.uwm.edu (Peter Stephen Thomas Iii)
Subject: Re: I LOVE HATERS
Organization: Computing Services Division, University of Wisconsin - Milwaukee
Date: Wed, 29 Jul 1992 20:24:49 GMT

In article <1992Jul29.171457.23423@spdcc.com> joe@spdcc.com (Joseph Francis) writes:
>I LOVE HATERS. I feel hoplessly communal more and more; turn any
>
[wonderful stuff to long to re-quote here] 
>I love that people still have strength to complain.
>-- 
>US Jojo; damp, slighly soiled, but tasty nonetheless.

I'm not sure whether to laugh or cry.  I want to laugh because it was so warm
and touching or whether to cry because it was so real to life.

Okay, call me a bleeding heart sentimentalist.  I thought it was great!

Peter Thomas 

-- 
"I'll lose my beard when they shave it from my cold, dead face!"

Quote from the Razor's Anonymous Handbook
From: Furr@cup.portal.com (George Dalton Madison)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: new hankie codes?
Date: Tue, 28 Jul 92 20:35:18 PDT
Organization: The Portal System (TM)
  <1992Jul23.234436.24527@uwm.edu> <1992Jul25.194305.21259@ads.com>

Henry Mensch squawks:
>pst@csd4.csd.uwm.edu (Peter Stephen Thomas Iii) wrote:
>->Well, I'm hoping that those two were straight boys.  The idea of someone
>->advertising themselves as a bondage Top or piercing Top at the age of 18 (or
>->possibly younger)  gives me the shivers and NOT from excitment!!
>
>why?  because you weren't this self-aware at age 18, or because you
>aren't this self-aware now?

Because the number of 18 year olds who are accomplished enough
in these arts to be *truly* called "tops" is so vanishingly small
as to be virtually non-existant.

[Though by Heisenberg's Uncertainty Principle, I'm sure there's
one or two hidden somewhere.]
 
() What sane person could live in this world and not be
() crazy?
()      -- Ursula LeGuin
-----
[> George D. Madison | NBCS: B8f+t+w-e+s+k+a!cv | Just say NO to razors! <]
[> It's a BEAR thing -- you wouldn't understand. <|> furr@cup.portal.com <]
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: rdonahue@spdcc.com (Bob Donahue)
Subject: Re: There was this sign in the window...
Organization: insert anything here
Date: Wed, 29 Jul 1992 04:27:44 GMT

IO81409@MAINE.MAINE.EDU (Ailsa N.T. Murphy) writes:
>what if the poor fragile flowers DID have big nasty men coming
>on to them?  no law against coming on to people.  women haev to
>deal with it all the time.  

	BINGO!

	Awwww.... those poooooor lil' strayt hunks got hit on by them
fags...   awwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwww.

	Their reaction smacks of homophobia ---- there are lots of other
ways to have handled or otherwise fended off the advances, even something
like "We're straight! (But thanks for asking!)" would have been a better
response.  If I had been there and seen something like this, I would
have laughed and might have said "Too bad!" to them... my reaction to
what they did would have been to think they had drawn a chore that
they in no way wanted, and were only there because they were ordered to.

	My first though on reading the initial posting was that these
guys probably think *nothing* about ways they could make womyn uncomfortable
with their advances (I expect that if they were sensitive enough 'in
real life' to that issue, making the parallel to the GBLO*-parade wouldn't
hasve required the firing of too many neurons), and were too stupid
to make the clue that the discomfort they "felt", they had probably
influcted on people in the past.

	While marching with the e-queers in NYC this year, the same
sort of thoughts ran thru my head wrt the NYPD.  Most of them just
did their jobs...  a fair portion tried to look everywhere but at the
marchers, and were clearly uncomfortable being there --- or, stood
n clumps with other NYPDers not doing a whole helluvalot, supposdly
trying to get some hheterosexual support from each other...  A very
few actually interacted with the crowds in positive ways.  Were they
GBLO*?  Probably not...  It doesn't matter - I was gald to have them there.

BBC
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: larry@bradley.bradley.edu (Larry D. Stratton)
Subject: Re: Unitarian Universalists vote pro-LGB
Organization: Bradley University
Date: Thu, 23 Jul 92 14:09:35 GMT

In <92204.161849IO81409@MAINE.MAINE.EDU> Ailsa N.T. Murphy <IO81409@MAINE.MAINE.EDU> writes:

>yay!  granted, this is my church, and i wouldn't ever have considered
>beig a member if they DIDN'T have this attitude, but it is great to
>hear it nonetheless...  now if only THOSE OTHERS would get a clue...
>                                     -ailsa

   There are quite a few of us UUs about.  Gee, I wonder why?  =)
From: grego@netcom.com (Greg Huff)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Lesbian Parents & Child in School
Date: 28 Jul 92 18:12:11 GMT
Reply-To: 75540.3173@compuserve.com
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services  (408 241-9760 guest)


I'm posting this for a friend, who at this point wishes to remain 
anonymous, and has no news/notes access.  Please e-mail directly to 
her at 75540.3173@compuserve.com.  Thanks to all those who can offer 
words of encouragement or reassurance.

Greg Huff					San Jose, Kalifornia
grego@netcom.com

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

I am a lesbian parent, my lover and I had this child and soon he will be 
entering kindergarten...we have some reservations and thought you folks 
might be able to help.  Should we tell the school about our homelife?
or should we just tell his teacher?  Should we send him to a private 
school? or a public school not in our district, such as grandparents 
district?  Those that have lived through this, was school worse than you 
imagined?  Not as bad as you thought?  My lover is afraid his classmates 
will find out and hassle him or worse, older siblings (gang members)
come directly to our house and harass us or harm us or him.  Her thought 
of him being in another school not in our neighborhood would cut down on 
the number of people who know where we live and he could still have friends, 
but we could control who their parents meet (such as only one of us) and we 
could just meet at restaurants or parks for social fun until we get to know 
the parents (which seems to have worked with his current little friends)
any help? or words of wisdom?
I have an account on Compuserve which you can send through the INTERNET. 
#75540.3173  [that's 75540.3173@compuserve.com -grego]
thanks
From: buckmr@aix.rpi.edu (Ron Buckmire)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Contact Resource gor GLB Academic Organisations
Date: 31 Jul 92 19:06:58 GMT


AN IMPORTANT NOTICE FOR EVERY GLB STUDENT, FACULTY AND ALUMNI
ORGANIZATION IN THE UNITED STATES

You are entitled to a free database listing, and unlimited access
to two interactive voice mailboxes on the BarPhone system to
describe your organization, give contact information, and
promote upcoming events. This service will allow any caller
with a TouchTone phone to locate GLB friendly businesses and
organizations by city, by state, by category or by university
name. This service is automated, tightly interactive and very
easy to use. It will be promoted nationally in gay/lesbian
publications, and will provide every gay or lesbian person in
the country with easier access to community resources than ever
before.

What's more, the information that we gather will be ported into
many media, and will be made widely available without many
restrictions. For example, the information will be accessible
(by early 1993) in voice, fax and videotex [possibly via the
Internet] formats. And, since the information gathering aspect of
the service is almost 100% automated, updates are processed
immediately without operator error, are immediately carried
through to the other media outlets, and allow us to provide the
service at a very reasonable cost to the general public conducting
searches.

We currently know of approximately 450 glb student organizations
in the US, and will be sending pre-registered mailboxes and access
codes to them. However, we do not know of so many faculty organizations.
We are in contact with NetGALA about alumni organizations, but any
help is appreciated. 

To get your organization online, this is all you have to do. Send
us a self-addressed, stamped envelope, and we will deliver your
account information and instructions as soon as possible. When you
get your packet in the mail, you'll be able to get started right
away. In the meantime, if you would like to get an idea of how
BarPhone works, just call (703)951-GIDE   951-4433, and feel free
to roam around. You won't be able to login, but you will be able
to get an idea of how the system works. In a few days, you'll be
able to conduct sample searches of our database.

Send SASE to Commonwealth Multimedia, attn: University Guide,
PO Box 365, Blacksburg, VA 24063-0365. Remember our information
providers hotline is (703)951-GIDE [look for an 800 access number
in Sept. 1992 when our public 900 service goes online]

Please send us an feedback, suggestions or comments you might have
to 71460.1571@compuserve.com attn: Brian S McConnell.

Enjoy!

Brian McConnell, Director
Commonwealth Multimedia, Inc. - A Gay Owned, Gay Operated 
				Communications Technology Firm
				In Virginia.

5% of profits go to GLB charities

-- 
RON BUCKMIRE, 54 Colvin Circle, Troy, NY 12180-3735. ``D.C., April 25 1993''
vox:(518)-276-8919 fax:(518)-276-6920 buckmr@rpi.edu buckmr@rpitsmts.bitnet
``Our erogenous zones are not demilitarized.''--Essex Hemphill,_Ceremonies_.
From: nelson@reed.edu (Nelson Minar)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: G/L Youth Suicide
Date: 28 Jul 92 05:34:47 GMT
Article-I.D.: reed.1992Jul28.053447.23512
Organization: Reed College, Portland, OR

(whew, catching up on motss after a con is tough work)

In article <1992Jul24.184238.13513@tandon.com> tdbear@tandon.com (Tom Barrett) writes:
>WRONG!  In my humble opinion, straights and gays do not mix in any
>counseling... I have yet to meet anyone who identifys themselves as
>straight who does not have some problems with homosexuality.

my own experience contradicts this. I owe a lot of my early
recognition of my own gayness to my high school counselor, a man who
(I'm almost positive) is straight.

However, Jerry was an exceptional person - he had helped shelter a
family member who was kicked out of the house by the parents for being
gay, he was a spokesperson for gay rights in the Methodist church, he
does not have any of the standard heterosexual male hangups about
affection, and he is a genuinely loving man.

In general I agree - queer counselors are probably better equipped to
handle queer related emotional issues in most cases.

>It has been expressed before, and it is also my opinion, that open
>lesbian counselors should be used to cousel gay male youth and open
>gay male counselors used for lesbian youth...

I can see the practical need for this, but I think as an idealistic
solution it's ludicrous. We don't expect straight men to only counsel
straight male youths and straight women to only counsel straight
female youths - why should we (in theory) enforce a similar rule on
queers?

As a guess, I would wager a man would have been more helpful to me in
dealing with my sexuality than a woman.
-- 
                __
nelson@reed.edu \/                   Nothing is true; everything is permitted
Newsgroups: soc.motss,soc.bi
From: twpierce@amhux1.amherst.edu (Tim Pierce)
Subject: Re: Breeders and other epithets
Organization: Amherst College, Amherst MA
Date: Wed, 22 Jul 1992 15:55:12 GMT

In article <1992Jul21.160750.19179@spdcc.com> dyer@spdcc.com (Steve Dyer) writes:

>Bi the way, has anyone ever known a "bisexual" who is primarily
>homosocial (if you will)?  Every bisexual I know has a MOTOS on
>hir arm but also professes interest in MOTSS. :-)

(Interesting ... a lot of people I know would have that quote the
other way around.)

A certain slut from Coventry comes to mind .... :-)  There's Elf.  I
also know a number of people in the Valley who identify as bi but
whose relationships arise mostly with men, and some Boston folks who
have long-term relationships with men (and sometimes women :-)

Me, I thought I'd found the motss for the other arm a couple of weeks
ago, but he sort of fell through the cracks.  Oh, well.

-- 
____ Tim Pierce                / "You mean there are TWO of you, Pierce?
\  / twpierce@amherst.edu      /  God help us all."
 \/ (BITnet: TWPIERCE@AMHERST) /   -- Major Charles Emerson Winchester III
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: jakec@ralvmm.vnet.ibm.com (Jake Coughlin)
Subject: Re: TAGS and Tarheels
Originator: jakec@ralvmm.vnet.ibm.com
Date: Fri, 31 Jul 92 17:37:13 GMT
Organization: IBM T. J. Watson Research

hughes@dogwood.botany.uga.edu (Wayne Hughes):
>    At one time there was a Triangle Area Gay Scientists organization.
>    It comprised gay scientists from the North Carolina and surrounding
>    areas.  Does anyone know if the organization still exists?

yes, it even extended membership to us lowly professionals. :-)

>    If so, does it have an electronic mailing list, or member(s)
>    with access to the net?  (Perhaps reading this very message???)

perhaps, but i'm not affiliated with it.  i can forward something
to the boyfriend of the secretary if you wish.

>    Also, does anyone know anything about the Tarheels, similar
>    questions here.  They would be an environmental and outdoor
>    recreational group, located in the North Carolina area.

they still exist as well, but i don't have any contact information
with me here.  if you need it, i can get it out of The Front Page,
our gay newspaper.
-- 
Jason Coughlin ( jakec@ralvmm.vnet.ibm.com )
Queer Without A Cause!
"I find myself suddenly in the world, and I recognize that I have one
right alone: that of demanding human behavior of the other." -- Fanon
From: dfpedro@nv2.uswnvg.com (Donn F. Pedro)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: Don't write NAMBLA today
Date: 29 Jul 92 17:28:33 GMT
Reply-To: dfpedro@uswnvg.com.UUCP (Donn F. Pedro)
Organization: I don't speak for them anyway.

In article <1992Jul26.165846.715@panix.com> roy@panix.com (Roy Radow) writes:
>In <1992Jul26.032334.27312@cbnewsm.cb.att.com> mls@cbnewsm.cb.att.com (mike.siemon) writes:
>
>>umm, the Rev. Mr. Dodgson *loathed* little boys (not to mention their
>>adolescent selves.)  His was a strictly heterosexual fixation.
>
>Quite correct. I was referring to his attraction to (and nude
>photographs of) little girls.

This angers me.  I cannot, for the life of me, understand how any 
adult could possibly think they are doing anything good for a child
by acting thier fantasies out with someone incapable of handling the
power dynamics of such a relationship.

I *know* it all really depends on age of each.  I *know* that 
eighteen, as a measure of maturity, is arbitrary as hell. I know
that much of societies treatment of child sexuality is screwed up
in the extreme.  I know it all comes down to consentuality and a
beings ability to consent.

But it still angers me.

>Yours in Liberation,

Not mine you're not.  I don't look upon it all as 'liberation', for
some are not ready to be 'free'.

And yes, those were sneer quotes.




     Donn Pedro ....................................dfpedro@uswnvg.com

		     There are no ordinary moments.
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: hsu@sp24.csrd.uiuc.edu (William Tsun-Yuk Hsu)
Subject: Re: RFD: Still in print?
Organization: UIUC Center for Supercomputing Research and Development
Date: Thu, 23 Jul 92 20:50:17 GMT

kumagic@kuhub.cc.ukans.edu (Stephen R. Figgins) writes:
>Is RFD still in publication?  

Yes.

A new issue is being worked on by a group of Chicago Faeries. (No, I'm
not one of them, I just ummm know a few of them.)

Bill
From: anderson@macc.wisc.edu (Jess Anderson)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Bounced Mail
Date: 23 Jul 92 17:46:18 GMT
Organization: Madison Academic Computing Center, UW-Madison


Contrary to an earlier posting, any email sent to my account
between about 14:00 CDT on 7/22 and 10:00 on 7/23 probably
bounced.  Please send it again in that case.  Things are
working correctly now.

-- 
Jess Anderson <> Madison Academic Computing Center <> University of Wisconsin
Internet: anderson@macc.wisc.edu <-best, UUCP:{}!uwvax!macc.wisc.edu!anderson
NeXTmail w/attachments: anderson@yak.macc.wisc.edu  Bitnet: anderson@wiscmacc
Room 3130 <> 1210 West Dayton Street / Madison WI 53706 <> Phone 608/262-5888
From: jefu@nmt.edu (Jeff Putnam)
Subject: Re: A good solution to gay youth difficulties is speaking gigs.
Organization: The Museum of Differential Geometry
Date: Mon, 27 Jul 1992 01:09:12 GMT

In article <1992Jul24.185428.13651@tandon.com> tdbear@tandon.com (Tom Barrett) writes:
>>And posters for the group rarely last more than
>>an hour or so - all the usual

>Very much the usual... one thing you might want to consider is
>to make them using Hot Pink stock and put "GAY/LESBIAN" in the
>biggest print.  Then get the tallest people to attach them out
>of casual reach.

All done.

>...  You can also stand by with your body-guards and take
>photos of the people who pull them down (especially if this is
>a no-no in the student rules and regulations).  The theme
>here is to take a superior and controlling position in this
>situation rather than cowering in the bushes.

I saw one guy torching our posters (lighting them while still on
the walls - or in one case on a glass door).  Asked if anything
could or would be done.  Was told (by the dean of students) that
freedom of expression was very important and that nothing could
be done.  Asked if it wasnt at least of concern to the fire 
marshall types.  Nope.  Eventually the student in question came
into my office to apologize (at least I think he thought it was
an apology - it was one of these "I'm a Xtian and I must love
the sinner, but not the sin." things and I chewed him out pretty
well).  The same dean of students found that freedom of expression
wasnt so important when someone found a fortune on the computer
screens offensive and yanked fortune immediately. 

>>I can only imagine what it must
>>be like for gay kids in the local high school.  

>What, you don't remember?  Or was it different for you? 

I dont really remember - except it was horrible.  But somehow
I've managed to forget most of my life before the age of 19 or
so.  (I mean, its GONE.)

>One
>thing that you might want to consider is to see if the more
>visible and vocal of your group wishes to form a panel
>discussion group. ...  to speak at local HS psych
>classes (or your own, for that matter).  

I've done this in the past, but I really dont think it would
fly in Socorro.  We have talked about it, but I think the
chances of getting into the local high school are pretty remote.

-- 
jefu@jupiter.nmt.edu  -- Jeff Putnam, New Mexico Tech, Socorro, NM
"The Government is not only contrary to law, but the character of its members
is very miscellaneous and it is to be assumed that it wont last long."