Newsgroups: alt.magick
From: shaman@cix.compulink.co.uk (Leo Smith)
Subject: Re: == No Subject ==
Reply-To: shaman@cix.compulink.co.uk
Date: Thu, 8 Oct 1992 22:08:02 +0000

One day I'll get a proper news reader.

[...] >
>  However, there is one detail which I find innacurate and worth
>  correcting. In the sources I've read Piggott's _The Druids_, etc.,
>  the Druids are clearly an Indo-Aryan priesthood--parallel to the
>  Brahmins of India. This means that they are not primarily descended
>  from a shamanic heritage, but rather, a sacrificial heritage.

Well Br'an - this may be a bit of a hair split. I am not sure WHAT
the evidence points to. I suppose I carry around with me a picture of
a pre-agricultural civilisation akin to - say - the Kalahari Bushmen
or the Australian Aborigines, which gradually metamorphosed into a
slash and burn agricutltural, and then finally a reasonable stable
agricultural society.

There would be a need for information to move around - but not
necessarily trade goods - hence the travelling 'wise men/women'
rather than traders.

Certainly the recent books by the Mathews' would utterly claim that
Taliesin and/or Merlin were archetypal druid shamanic magicians.

>  However, the farther west they went, the more they absorbed
>  cultural standards from the locals. The Druids, unlike the
>  Brahmins, were not a hereditory class. Some of what the absorbed
>  from local groups may have been more shamanic, even though that was
>  not their primary base.

I think ALL religion is primarily ecstatic/shamanic. As is in some
senses all knowledge in a funny sort of way. The Hindu religions are
no different, except that they have much more structure: Something
they share with the qaballistic tradition.

Personally - and this is pure opinion - I think that a structured
religion is an antidote to an overly rational mind. Sort of whilst Wm
Tucker and I are gazing in wonder at auras and flocks of birds,
having Real Experiences, Tagi and Josh are picking over theories and
tomes in an effort to disentangle themselves from an overdose of
REality :-) :-) :-)

How many Pins can dance on Tagis' head?

Sorry: Deviation. That is shamanism represents a primitive and direct
approach to the Real World (the direct experience before we started
to think about it). All religions are about the path back to the Real
World from the incredible mind warps we find ourselves in. As we got
more 'civilised' the religions got more 'sophisticated'. Every
religion is a reflection of the culture that it exists in. Therefore
insofar as the Celtic culture was pretty rural, and close to nature,
their religions would tend to be direct, magical and shamanic. This
is not necessarily the case once trading and commerce start to make
their mark. I seem to see a distinct shift away from the magical to
the mundane and the spiritual as separate ideas when the Celtic
influence waned and the Anglo-Saxon tribes achieved dominance.

Sad.

>Thanks for posting it though.

Yeah. Lets have more of your ideas tho!

Regards
Leo


              Merry meet, merry part, merry meet again,
                               Br'anArthur

Queer, Peculiar, and Wyrd! :-)

******************************************************************************
Newage is hypoallergenic spirituality--
it's for people who are allergic to the word religion.
                                   --Jon Jay Obermark



Newsgroups: alt.magick