From: judi@wam.umd.edu (Jay T Stein -- staying within the lines)
Subject: Re: PP executive says "personhood...begins a month after birth"
Originator: judi@rac1.wam.umd.edu
Organization: WACDTF, Washington, D.C.
Date: Thu, 23 Jul 1992 18:46:28 GMT

What: <1992Jul22.171318.495@ncsu.edu>
Who:  dsh@csl36h.csl.ncsu.edu (Doug Holtsinger)

>>  = Jay T Stein
>>> = Doug Holtsinger

>>> Yeah, Stein seems to enjoy promoting the idea that abortion is a 
>>> religious issue, 
>
>> I have never made any such claim.  I do not promote this idea, and in fact
>> I have stated on numerous occasions that abortion is NOT a religious issue,
>> as far as the law is concerned.  Either support the claim or retract, please.
>> I'd hate to think that you misrepresent me deliberately.
>
>On numerous occasions, I've seen you make reference to religious
>abortion protesters. You must have a reason for doing that, and I
>just assume that you want to promote the idea that abortion is a
>religious issue (at least, for some people). 
                                ==== ======

Yes - I'm saying it's a religious issue for the anti abortion protesters.
Which falls right in line with my observation (and gripe) that the pro-life
movement seems to have strong religious connections.

>> One more time Doug - it is okay for one's *personal* view on abortion to
>> be guided by religious beliefs.  It is *not* okay for abortion *legislation*
>> to be guided by religious beliefs.  This has always been my stated view
>> on t.a.
>
>Fine. I was just commenting that your tactics could backfire. 

They're not tactics Doug, I'm simply stating my views.  I find it interesting
that pro-lifers here seem to be the ones stuck on using war terms:  enemy,
generals, tactics, weapons...

>I have previously stated that religious beliefs are an inadequate
>basis for supporting or opposing abortion laws. I have publically 
>criticized pro-lifers (and pro-choicers) for using religion in this
>manner. I don't publically criticize every poster because it's a
>waste of bandwidth. 
 
This paragraph applies exactly to me as well.

>Actually, the poster did not claim that he supported abortion laws,
>only that he was anti-abortion. 

Not explicitly, but isn't it clear that he does support abortion laws?

>> So on the one hand you get on my case for refusing to comment on a
>> religious statement, when you refused even to acknowledge the above
>> article.  [...]
>
>I asked you to comment on a pro-choice religious statement that
>"personhood begins...a month after birth". In response, you ignored it.

I did not ignore it, I said that she's entitled to her opinion.  As for
whether I agree with it, you know that I don't - I've said that my
opinion is that personhood begins at birth.

>You asked me to comment on a pro-life religious statement. In response,
>I disagreed with it.

Yes, you did.  So we're back where we started - and that is with your
claim that I'm trying to make abortion a religious issue.  Please stop
misrepresenting me.

>That's right, you ignored Feldt's comment that "personhood begins... 
>a month after birth". Certainly it wouldn't be too hard to say 
>"I disagree with that statement", or "I think she's correct"? 

I disagree with that statement.

>>>            Pro-choicer Feldt's remark
>>>            that her logic is based upon  
>>>            a religious perspective 
>>>          -------------------------------
>>>
>              Pro-choice religious beliefs
>              make for bad legislation, but
>              can't bring himself to criticize
>              individual pro-choicers. 

This statement is not correct.  I have criticized pro-choicers both
on the net and in real life.

> 
>> If you really think I'm basing my pro-choice view on religious tenets,
>> Doug, then you haven't understood a word I've said.
>
>I never said that.

You have implied it, by making the assertion that started this article.
I would really appreciate a retraction.
--
Flaming is unnecessary, and I refuse to do it anymore.

     _____     __      __               -=* Jay T Stein *=-
   |   |      |  \    /        
   |   |  in  |   |  |               Internet: judi@wam.umd.edu
|__|   |      |__/    \__               GEnie: J.STEIN18

But still I fear and still I dare not laugh at the madman.
Newsgroups: talk.abortion