From: tensmekl@infonode.ingr.com (Kermit Tensmeyer)
Subject: Re: Anthony Rose; answering ----------->   Gordon
Keywords: The distortions of a frenzied mind
Organization: Intergraph Corporation, Huntsville, AL.
Date: Tue, 15 Dec 1992 14:14:35 GMT

In article <e9KT02da2eTu01@JUTS.ccc.amdahl.com> agr00@JUTS.ccc.amdahl.com (Anthony G Rose) writes:
>In article <17804@pitt.UUCP> geb@cs.pitt.edu (Gordon Banks) writes:
>
>>Again, I find you incredibly arrogant and presumptuous.  Let me turn
>>that around and say "Tony, you can quit your false beliefs are turn
>>to the True Jesus Christ and accept Him as your personal Savior."
>>And what do you say to that?  And where does this get us?  Sheesh!
>
>I agree, gets us nowhere. Just where you want it to get us.  Because you
>are frightened where we might get if we discuss relavent issues instead of
>you attacking my character and me defending it.

   Tony's idea of relevent issues has nothing to do with either Orthodx
   Christianity or in any standard way LDS doctrine.  Let's examine
   Tony's beliefs of what Mormons Believe.

   After all, he claims that he's read it all, and understands it all
   from a LDS point of view.

>>>This is the choice that you have to make now Gordon.  Other Mormons have
>>>faced the truth of these things and have accepted Jesus as their
>>>personal Savior.  Today they KNOW that they are saved! That is one thing
>>>that you can't say as a Mormon.  
>>
>>I'm afraid you just don't speak my language, Tony.  First of all,
>>Mormons believe in a universal salvation where only a tiny few
>>are not saved.
>
>When I talk about being saved, I am talking about spending eternity in
>the presence of God.  You do not believe that all but a few will do that.
>Your universal salvation is the same as resurrection and only gets
>Mormons in good standing to the position of spending eternity with God.

   Really!   So the resurrection is _NOT_ the same as being saved? Just
   a few weeks ago _you_ claimed that _this_ is what is meant by Eternal
   Life.  Are you claiming that there is more to Eternal Life than
   the Resurrection of the Just and Living with God?

   Gordon's right again "you just don't speak my language". It dosnt't
   matter how many times, people say it and you won't comprehend.

   Seeing and see not. Hearing and hearing not. When you accept Christ,
   he will both open your ears and your eyes. He can still preform miracles
   He can cure both your blindness and your deafness.
>
>Everyone else gets one of the other two "kingdoms", but God is only in
>the Heaven where Mormons who have been married in the temple will spend
>eternity.  Therefore, when I speak of "saved" I am taking about what you
>would consider "celestial kingdom".  And isn't it true that non-Mormons
>are the only ones that will get there?  Therefore, you can't say that
>you believe everyone is saved in the sense that most will spend eternity
>in the presence of God. Only married Mormons will do that.

	in your frenzied mind, God is only in the Exalted Part of the
	Celestial Kingdom?  Gee, I haven't heard that distortion for
	quite some time.

	I had always heard that Jesus was God, and that He was in one of
	the other Kingdoms where the honest in heart, the honorable people
	of the earth lived. How long have be you Tony been involved
	with Mormons, and you still don't know even the basics?

	As for "Only married Mormons will do that"  that is another of
	your deliberate distortions. This point has been discussed to
	death in this forum. Since you seem incapable, of understanding
	what has been presented before, why repeat anything for you.
>
>>Second, my interest in religion has nothing to do
>>with my wanting to be saved.  I know you probably find this almost
>>incredible to believe from your perspective, but it is really
>>true.
>>Third, I do accept the atonement of the
>>Savior most readily.  But I find it somewhat offensive that you think that
>>someone could reach out to Jesus, accept his atonement, and 
>>be rejected because of some theological error in their belief
>>about His nature.  I really don't think Jesus was the kind of
>>person who would insist upon rigorous correctness of belief of
>>those who ask him for help.  I'm sorry you do.  Fortunately,
>>I am as certain as can be that you are wrong, so those you so
>>readily would send to hell need fear nothing.
>
>If you reach out to the wrong Jesus, the real one will have no mercy on
>you.

	That's where Tony, your wrong again, the real Jesus, will have
	mercy on you. Just because you have worshiped at the altar of
	greed and idolarty, Jesus stands at the door and when/if you
	answer, he will come in.

>
>>Gordon Banks  N3JXP      
>Tony

 And these are _your_ real issues of substantive value? Each seem to be
 base on your deluded sense of understanding of what Christianity is
 and what the basic issues of Christianty are. May I suggest that when
 you find Christ, that you join with a basic back-to-the Bible group
 and come to know the real Christ before you begin to attempt to
 convert anyone else. Until you humble youself as a little child, you
 can not either accept Christ or be a true disciple of Christ.



-- 
         Kermit Tensmeyer                         | Intergraph Corporation
   klt@kt8127.b23a.ingr.com                       | Deep in Dixie
Newsgroups: talk.religion.misc,alt.atheism,alt.slack,alt.discordia