HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: cdost+@pitt.edu (Constantin D Orogo)
Newsgroups: fj.mail-lists.x-window
Subject: PC-Xview Remote for Windows and DOS
Date: 6 Jan 93 12:38:11 GMT
Distribution: fj
Organization: University of Pittsburgh

Date: 6 Jan 93 10:35:19 GMT
Message-Id: <1428@blue.cis.pitt.edu>
Newsgroups: comp.windows.x


Anybody out there have used PC-Xview Remote for Windows or for DOS.
NCD's brochure claims it's 10 times faster than SLIP or PPP. What
applications have you ran on that shows decent performance. Also,
anybody used a Silicon Graphics as the host.

Thanks in advance.
Constantine Orogo, cdost+@pitt.edu
From: finken@conware.de
Newsgroups: fj.mail-lists.x-window
Subject: ctwm -- best WM?
Date: 11 Jan 93 21:45:12 GMT
Distribution: fj
Organization: Workstation Div., Supermicro Systems Group, Sony Corporation

Message-Id: <m0nBU7I-000025C@sony.conware.de>
Date: Mon, 11 Jan 1993 19:43:48 +0100 (MET)
X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL20]
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Content-Length: 1164      


Hi folks,

just to join the discussion about which window munger is the best....

I've recently installed ctwm 2.1. After having worked with the original twm,
piewm and tvtwm and a little gwm (a monster), it proved to be the most valuable
one -- to me.

But one problem remains, as usual. There's this feature in this WM, another
in that WM. But not in my WM. Sniff.

One of the things I'd like to see in ctwm is the StayUpMenus feature from 
tvtwm. It takes a lot of pressure from  the mouse buttons :-)

I did some diffs on the sources, but it looked as if it were too much work
to do it just for fun in a spare nanosecond. Are you listening, Claude?

Something else that I would like to see in ctwm were some kind of buttons,
which are attached to the Workspace manager, where I can bind some functions
to, maybe even some internal functions for ctwm, like a biff widget or a
clock widget... I admit, I too have seen vuewm on a HP...

Cheers,

Michael

-- 
Michael Finken                                Conware Computer Consulting GmbH
E-Mail: finken@conware.de                     Killisfeldstr. 64
					      W-7500 Karlsruhe 41
					      Tel.: 0721/9495-0
From: bambi@bu.oz.au (David J. Hughes)
Newsgroups: fj.mail-lists.x-window
Subject: Re: version of XDM that uses kerberos
Date: 12 Jan 93 04:57:06 GMT
Distribution: fj
Organization: ITS, Bond University

Date: Tue, 12 Jan 1993 01:12:45 GMT
Message-Id: <1993Jan12.011245.257@kirk.bu.oz.au>
Newsgroups: comp.windows.x

mickey_coggins@vnet.ibm.COM ("Michael A. Coggins") writes:

>Has anyone added kerberos authentication to the XDM program?


I'll be starting work on this next week so if anyone has pointers,
please raise your hand before then.  If not, I'll make anything I come
up with available to all who ask.


bambi
   ___                                 David J. Hughes     bambi@bu.oz.au
  /   \                /  /    /        
 /  __/ __   __   ____/  /    / __          Senior Network Programmer
/    \ /  \ /  \ /   /  /    / /  \  /    Comms Development & Operation
\____/ \__//   / \__/   \___/ /   / /       AUSTRALIA  (+61 75 951450)
From: julia@netcom.com (Julia Miller)
Newsgroups: fj.mail-lists.x-window
Subject: Building X11R5 for solaris
Date: 5 Jan 93 08:08:44 GMT
Distribution: fj
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services  (408 241-9760 guest)

Date: Tue, 5 Jan 1993 05:52:25 GMT
Message-Id: <1993Jan5.055225.11000@netcom.com>
Newsgroups: comp.windows.x


Subject: Building X11R5 on Solaris 2.1

Help,

I am trying to get X11R5, PL21, Local-cc, to compile on Solaris 2.1.
Most of it compiles with the following exceptions, so far.
Any help with this would be greatly appreciated.

1) Building Xsun, the following undefines occur:
    __authenticate  in server/os/rcpauth.c
    _sunGXInit      in server/ddx/sun/sunGC6C.c
    _on_exit        in server/ddx/sun/sunInit.c
    _stipplestack   in server/cbf/cfbglblt8.c
    _stipplestackte in server/cbf/cfbglblt8.c
    
    __authenticate appears to be defined in /usr/lib/libnsl.a, but I can't
    	get the linker to notice that it is there
    I couln't find _sunGXInit anywhere.
    I couldn'y find _on_exit anywhere.
    _stipplestack and _stipplestackte are in libcbf.a which is linked into
        Xsun, but once more these aren't found. These symbols are created
	from the assembly files stipstack.s and stipstackte.s and exist
   	in the libcbf.a as mentioned.

2) Building xterm the line following appears:
	struct ttysize ts;
   The structure ttysize is declared in <sys/ptyvar.h> which is not included.
   Including that requires including at least 4 other include files.
   Then I gave up. Any ideas?

3) As a note, building the server there are a bunch of references to 
   files in the directory <sun/*.h> and (sundev/*.h>
   These files are now all located in <sys/*.h> where * hasn't changed.

Please help this lowly system administrator who has had this task dumped
on her.
Julia @ The Fuedal Factory
julia@netcom.com
From: brian@mdavcr.mda.ca (Brian Lemire)
Newsgroups: fj.mail-lists.x-window
Subject: olwm, how do popup menus work ?
Date: 11 Jan 93 03:03:19 GMT
Distribution: fj
Organization: Workstation Div., Supermicro Systems Group, Sony Corporation

Date: 11 Jan 93 00:44:30 GMT
Message-Id: <3940@mowgli.mdavcr.mda.ca>
Newsgroups: comp.windows.x


	We are using wrappers to write an extension for an X server. We have
wrapped the graphics context functions and operations successfully as well
as the CreateGC(), PaintWindowBackground(), and CopyWindow() functions on the
screen. We seem to be handling most window operations correctly except for
popup menus. For some reason our wrapper functions are not called when these
windows are created.

	My question is... What happens when a menu "pops up" under the olwm.
We are currently looking at the menu that "pops up" on the root window. We
have figured out this much so far...

	1. The client makes a call to map the window containing the popup
	   menu.

	2. At the server side this translates into a call to MapWindow() in
	   the /dix/window.c file.

	3. The MapWindow() function makes a call to pScreen->ValidateTree() 
	   followed by a call to HandleExposures(). { HandleExposures() is not
	   significant in that the call to it can be commented out and the
	   menu still "pops up".}

	4. The call to pScreen->ValidateTree() is in fact a call to 
	   miValidateTree(). miValidateTree() in turn calls miComputeClips(),
	   however neither one seems to call any drawing routines, or event
	   generation routines that would result in a window draw. These 
	   functions only perform calculations on regions.

	Any information of ideas would be appreaciated.

Brian Lemire
brian@mda.ca
From: oj@miki.pictel.com (Oliver Jones)
Newsgroups: fj.mail-lists.x-window
Subject: Re: X/Xt/Motif Event Interleaving?
Date: 6 Jan 93 00:09:52 GMT
Distribution: fj
Organization: PictureTel Corporation

Date: 5 Jan 93 15:18:50 GMT
Message-Id: <1993Jan5.151850.628@miki.pictel.com>
Newsgroups: comp.windows.x,comp.windows.x.intrinsics,comp.windows.x.motif

In article <BUZZ.93Jan4135708@lion.bear.com> buzz@bear.com (Buzz Moschetti) writes:
>	XtAddEventHandler(widget,
>		EnterWindowMask | 
>		ButtonPressMask | ButtonReleaseMask | Button1MotionMask,
>		      FALSE, my_event_proc, client_data);
>
>What we thought would happen is while, say, widget 1 was dragged over
>widget 2, the latter's EnterNotify event would appear in the "stream" of
>widget 1's MotionNotify events...
>We do *not* see this behavior.

Put OwnerGrabButtonMask in your list of mask bits.
From: jos@bull.nl (Jos Vos)
Newsgroups: fj.mail-lists.x-window
Subject: Device-independent list of colors wanted (RGBi)
Date: 4 Jan 93 08:59:15 GMT
Distribution: fj
Organization: Bull, P.O. Box 22859, NL-1100 DJ Amsterdam, The Netherlands

Date: Mon, 4 Jan 1993 06:50:26 GMT
Message-Id: <C0BHo3.Fv3@bull.nl>
Newsgroups: comp.windows.x

Does anyone have the DEVICE-INDEPENDENT specification of the colors
appearing in the rgb.txt file, preferably in RGBi (X11R5) format?

I'm also interested in other color-lists specified in a
device-independent way.

Please MAIL responses to me, I'll summarize if wanted.
Thanks.

-- 
--    Jos Vos <jos@bull.nl>   (UUCP: ...!{uunet,mcsun,sun4nl}!nlbull!jos)
--    Bull Nederland NV, Product Support Unix, Amsterdam, The Netherlands
From: handeli@phoenix.ocf.llnl.gov (David I Handeli)
Newsgroups: fj.mail-lists.x-window
Subject: SUIT
Date: 5 Jan 93 01:56:45 GMT
Distribution: fj
Organization: Lawrence Livermore National Laboratory

Date: 5 Jan 93 00:01:48 GMT
Message-Id: <145017@lll-winken.LLNL.GOV>
Newsgroups: comp.windows.x,comp.windows.x.motif


I just received a copy of SUIT, the Simple User Interface Toolkit,
from the University of Virginia. First, has anyone had any good or
bad experiences? Secondly, has anyone ported to UNICOS? Thanks.
From: zzz@byron.u.washington.edu (Sample)
Newsgroups: fj.mail-lists.x-window
Subject: Deleting Mouse Selected text in "xedit"
Date: 11 Jan 93 16:30:34 GMT
Distribution: fj
Organization: University of Washington

Date: 11 Jan 93 14:07:55 GMT
Message-Id: <1iruvrINNnnk@shelley.u.washington.edu>
Newsgroups: comp.windows.x

Could someone email me here (zzz@byron.u.washington.edu)
and tell me of an easier why to delete mouse
selected text in "/usr/bin/X11/xedit".  I know that
the '^W' key works but there should be a quicker
way (like a signle key press (no control press) or
adding a delete to the "Quit", "Save" and "Load"
menues.

Jeff
From: guenther@stolaf.edu (Philip A Guenther)
Newsgroups: fj.mail-lists.x-window
Subject: X11R5 and Type 1 fonts
Date: 12 Jan 93 08:23:02 GMT
Distribution: fj
Organization: Academic Computing Center, St. Olaf College

Date: Tue, 12 Jan 1993 06:19:08 GMT
Message-Id: <GUENTHER.93Jan12001906@amcl5.stolaf.edu>
Newsgroups: comp.windows.x

  I'm currently compiling X11R5 and I'd like to include the Type 1
font renderer included in the contrib.  After following the (skimpy)
directions, it compiled with one error: 1 reference each was made to
nonexistent members of the FontPtr struct by the Type1OpenScalable()
function in t1funcs.c.  Since they were the only references, I
commented them out ( *DANGER* *DANGER* ) and it compiles okay.

 However, now when I test it, every so often, while referencing a Type
1 font (usually -adobe-courier-medium-r-*) it just dies.  If the
server is doing the rendering, then it dies totally.  The font server
will report bus error as it dies.  I haven't tracked down the problem,
partly from a lack of time, and partly because I have a feeling that
this may have been corrected in a later release.  But if so, where?  I
just snarfed this stuff from
export.lcs.mit.edu:/pub/R5/contrib/contrib-*,  Isn't that the
authoritive place for X stuff?  Any help would be appreciated greatly,
as the alternative is to rip the Type 1 stuff back out.

Thanks!

Philip Guenther

--
guenther@stolaf.edu (Philip Guenther)       | The ACC might agree with me,
Student Sys Prog, Academic Computing Center | but with that bunch, (and me)
St Olaf College, Northfield, MN 55057       | you never know... :-| :-( :-)
"Life makes sense?  LIFE MAKES SENSE!?!?  Where do people get these ideas?"
From: mam70@ccc.amdahl.com (Michael Musta)
Newsgroups: fj.mail-lists.x-window
Subject: Strange behaviour under MWM
Date: 6 Jan 93 23:32:24 GMT
Distribution: fj
Organization: Amdahl Corporation, Sunnyvale CA

Date: 6 Jan 93 20:11:27 GMT
Message-Id: <9fIc02jX30Ok01@JUTS.ccc.amdahl.com>
Newsgroups: comp.windows.x

I have an application program written with OPENLOOK Toolkit that runs fine
under the OPENLOOK Window Manager but will occasionally crash under the
Motif Window Manager.

If my application's toplevel window is not selected and you select the 
minimize button, it fails about 80% of the time with the following error
message:

       X Error of failed request: BadMatch (invalid parameters attributes)
       Major opcode of failed request:  42 (X_SetInputFocus)
       Serial number of failed request: XXXXX(a number)
       Current serial number in output stream: XXXXX(same number as above)

If you select my application's toplevel window then select the minimize button
the error never occurs.

This problem is driving me crazy!   I am relatively new to X window programming
and I hope someone could shed some light on this problem.

                                             Thanks in advance.
From: sda@tigger.jvnc.net (Systems Design Associates)
Newsgroups: fj.mail-lists.x-window
Subject: JPL XWindows library
Date: 11 Jan 93 18:27:48 GMT
Distribution: fj
Organization: JvNCnet

Date: 11 Jan 93 15:49:58 GMT
Message-Id: <1993Jan11.154958.20223@tigger.jvnc.net>
Newsgroups: comp.windows.x

About a year ago, I worked with a public domain XWindows development
library from JPL (David Smyth) that allowed specification of the 
User Interface in the resource file.  I found this an extremely 
useful and fast way to development my application.  Unfortunately,
I failed to take the information with me from that job and now I need to
relocate it.  If someone can send me the name of the package and an
ftp site I would be greatly appreciative.

Derek Fields
(derek@sysdesign.com)
From: egf-bbs!mike@bloom-beacon.MIT.EDU (System Operator)
Newsgroups: fj.mail-lists.x-window
Subject: Re: fatal IO error 32 (broken pipe)
Date: 8 Jan 93 07:12:58 GMT
Distribution: fj
Organization: EGF, MN Public Access Unix

Date: 8 Jan 93 03:25:37 GMT
Message-Id: <1993Jan8.032537.17130@egf-bbs.uucp>
Newsgroups: comp.windows.x

In article <1993Jan7.215059.14738@egf-bbs.uucp> mike@egf-bbs.uucp (System Operator) writes:
>
>
>XIO:    fatal IO error 32 (Broken pipe) on X server "unix:0.0"
>	after 2165 requests (2155 known processed) with 0 events remainging.
>	The connection was probably broken by a server shutdown or
>KillClient.
>
>xinit:  connection to X server lost
>
>BTW, right before I get this I start seeing...
>
>nifty% NFS server egf-bbs not responding still trying
>	NFS server egf-bbs ok
>

>
>Is this more likely a hardware or software problem?

I replaced Xsun with an old XsunMono and everything seems to work OK again.

Guess that means it was a software problem... :-)

Mike



-- 
Mike Aos         Preferred->  plains!egf-bbs!mike     This       egf-bbs.uucp
(218) 773-1084   Checked daily-> plains!milo!maos    message       Sun 2/120
RR#1 Box 40    ALSO->aos@agassiz.cas.und.NoDak.Edu   delayed    (218) 773-3124
East Grand Forks, MN 56721-9703                       24 hrs    Login as 'guest'
From: iis!glen@Sun.COM
Newsgroups: fj.mail-lists.x-window
Subject: Colored Pixmaps for DrawnButtons
Date: 7 Jan 93 23:46:19 GMT
Distribution: fj
Organization: Workstation Div., Supermicro Systems Group, Sony Corporation

Date: Thu, 7 Jan 93 14:20:47 PST
Message-Id: <9301072220.AA08038@rigel>
Content-Length: 241


Can I use a Color Pixmap created with iconedit as the Pixmap for a drawnButton ?
This is in .xpm format (not bitmap).  

I've tried XmGetPixmap(), but this really wants a bitmap.  Is there another way
to have color on my buttons??

Help !!
From: johns@io.datasys.swri.edu (Stephen Johns)
Newsgroups: fj.mail-lists.x-window
Subject: Writting to other client`s windows.
Date: 5 Jan 93 02:45:14 GMT
Distribution: fj
Organization: Southwest Research Institute, San Antonio

Date: 4 Jan 93 19:29:40 GMT
Message-Id: <251@io.trident.datasys.swri.edu>
Newsgroups: comp.windows.x

I have two clients, via sockets I send the window ID from one client
to the other.  I then try XDraw calls to the passed window ID.  Nothing
happens, and I mean nothing, no warning, no errors, no drawing.  Does
X support this at all?
From: ray@rann.sbi.com (Raymond Blum)
Newsgroups: fj.mail-lists.x-window
Subject: background color of RowColumn children
Date: 13 Jan 93 04:56:43 GMT
Distribution: fj
Organization: Salomon Inc.

Date: 12 Jan 93 22:23:12 GMT
Message-Id: <1371@pivot-sts.sbi.com>
Newsgroups: comp.windows.x.motif,comp.windows.x

Hi Net!
  I am having a problem with understanding/using resources; I have a RowColumn
 widget whose children are as follows:

XmRowColumn --
              |
              XmFrame --
                         |
                         XmForm --
                                  |
                                  XmText
                                  XmOptionMenu
                                  XmToggleButtonGadget
              |
              XmFrame --
                        |
                        XmForm --
                                  |
                                  XmText
                                  XmOptionMenu
                                  XmToggleButtonGadget
              |
        (more of the same) 
  
I want the RowColumn background to be C1. I want the Frames and their children, with
the exception of the Text widgets, to have the background color C2. I want all Text
widgets to have the background color C3.
  What I am specifying in my application defaults file is...

     *XmRowColumn*background: C2
     *XmRowColumn.background: C1
     *XmText*background: C3

   Problem is: line #1 seems to be overriding line #3, the text children of my Form
have the background color C2. I have tried rearranging the order of the declarations, 
to no effect. I have also tried specifying XmFrame*background instead of
XmRowColumn*background [in line 1], also to no effect. (This IS annoying)
   Seems like it should be this simple, but I am beginning to suspect not!

Thanks in advance for any help
---Raymond

---
------------------------------------------------------------------------
-----                                                              -----
-----                                                              -----
----                  \\\\\\\                                       ----
----                 \\\    \\   People ask me                      ----
----                  \\ o o       "Why are you smiling?"           ----
----                             I'm just happy!                    ----
----                     \_/                                        ----
----                                                                ----
----   Raymond Blum                                                 ----
----   ray@rann.sbi.com                                             ----
----   (201) 896-7594                                               ----

  Of course these are MY opinions! Whattya think, my EMPLOYER 
  could've thought this stuff up?
From: cek@sdc.boeing.com (Conrad Kimball)
Newsgroups: fj.mail-lists.x-window
Subject: Re: Where is vtwm for R4?
Date: 5 Jan 93 16:17:03 GMT
Distribution: fj
Organization: Boeing Computer Services, Seattle, WA

Date: 4 Jan 93 20:16:57 GMT
Message-Id: <7710@fury.BOEING.COM>
Newsgroups: comp.windows.x

In article <1992Dec30.153739.185922@ipgaix.unipg.it>, luca@dedalo.unipg.it (Luca Priorelli) writes:
|> Where can I get vtwm for R4?

I use the version on export.lcs.mit.edu, contrib/vtwm-5.0.tar.Z, along
with the patch file also on export, contrib/vtwm-5.0.patch1.  I then
apply the following patch to build it in an R4 environment:

*** Imakefile.orig	Wed Feb 19 09:50:56 1992
--- Imakefile	Sun Oct 18 22:34:39 1992
***************
*** 1,3 ****
--- 1,5 ----
+ #define XCOMM #
+ 
  XCOMM $XConsortium: Imakefile,v 1.33 91/07/17 00:48:06 gildea Exp $
  XCOMM
  XCOMM Here is an Imakefile for vtwm.  It depends on having TWMDIR defined
***************
*** 30,36 ****
  depend:: lex.c gram.c deftwmrc.c 
  
  ComplexProgramTarget(vtwm)
! InstallNonExecFile(system.vtwmrc,$(TWMDIR))
  
  gram.h gram.c: gram.y
  	yacc $(YFLAGS) gram.y
--- 32,38 ----
  depend:: lex.c gram.c deftwmrc.c 
  
  ComplexProgramTarget(vtwm)
! InstallNonExec(system.vtwmrc,$(TWMDIR))
  
  gram.h gram.c: gram.y
  	yacc $(YFLAGS) gram.y
*** twm.h.orig	Sun Oct 18 22:42:48 1992
--- twm.h	Sun Oct 18 22:43:43 1992
***************
*** 42,48 ****
  #include <X11/Xutil.h>
  #include <X11/cursorfont.h>
  #include <X11/extensions/shape.h>
! #include <X11/Xfuncs.h>
  
  #ifndef WithdrawnState
  #define WithdrawnState 0
--- 42,48 ----
  #include <X11/Xutil.h>
  #include <X11/cursorfont.h>
  #include <X11/extensions/shape.h>
! /* #include <X11/Xfuncs.h> */
  
  #ifndef WithdrawnState
  #define WithdrawnState 0
***************
*** 309,315 ****
  #define TBPM_MENU ":menu"	/* name of titlebar pixmap for menus */
  #define TBPM_QUESTION ":question"	/* name of unknown titlebar pixmap */
  
! #include <X11/Xosdefs.h>
  #ifndef X_NOT_STDC_ENV
  #include <stdlib.h>
  #else
--- 309,315 ----
  #define TBPM_MENU ":menu"	/* name of titlebar pixmap for menus */
  #define TBPM_QUESTION ":question"	/* name of unknown titlebar pixmap */
  
! /* #include <X11/Xosdefs.h> */
  #ifndef X_NOT_STDC_ENV
  #include <stdlib.h>
  #else

--
Conrad Kimball       | Client Server Tech Services, Boeing Computer Services
cek@sdc.boeing.com   | P.O. Box 24346, MS 7A-35
(206) 865-6410       | Seattle, WA  98124-0346
From: hess@swt6.informatik.uni-hamburg.de (Hauke Hess)
Newsgroups: fj.mail-lists.x-window
Subject: Icons in XWindows
Date: 4 Jan 93 19:26:15 GMT
Distribution: fj
Organization: University of Hamburg, FRG

Date:  4 Jan 93 17:16:21 GMT
Message-Id: <hess.726167781@swt6>
Newsgroups: comp.windows.x

Hi,

I want to implement a desktop-like application in X11.
The direct-manipulation routines are ready, the
last problem (at least I hope it will be the last) is
how to draw the icons on the desktop. I would like to
have a finite set of icons that can be drawn into a
XWindow. My question is: should I use pixmaps or images.

What is the usual way to draw icons in a xwindow? If someone
could send me a small sourcecode drawing a pixmap into a
window it would save me a lot of time...

Hauke Hess
From: smiley@akasha.eng.hou.compaq.com (Colin Smiley)
Newsgroups: fj.mail-lists.x-window
Subject: X11R5p21 and GCC 2.3.3 problems...
Date: 6 Jan 93 21:54:42 GMT
Distribution: fj
Organization: Compaq Computer Corporation

Date: Wed, 6 Jan 1993 16:49:15 GMT
Message-Id: <SMILEY.93Jan6114915@akasha.eng.hou.compaq.com>
Newsgroups: comp.windows.x




I have successfully compiled X11R5p21 with GCC 2.3.3 on a Sparc 10
running SunOS 4.1.3.  That's the good news.  The bad news is that it
won't run, and I am not sure why...  

I recieve the following errors when trying to do a startx...


Getting interface configuration: Operation not supported on socket
sunOpenFrameBuffer: Inappropriate ioctl for device

Fatal server error:
no screens found
XIO:  fatal IO error 32 (Broken pipe) on X server ":0.0"
      after 0 requests (0 known processed) with 0 events remaining.
      The connection was probably broken by a server shutdown or KillClient.
Couldn't initialize translation to Event

Has anyone seen this before? and Can anyone offer suggestions on how
to fix it (Or where to start looking)?  

Everything compiled and works fine with Sun's bundled cc.

I can offer more details if need be, right now I am looking for
general ideas of what to try...

Thanks...

Colin
--
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
Colin Smiley, Compaq Computer Corporation, Houston, Texas 77269-2000
e-mail: smiley@compaq.com                           Phone: (713) 378-8426
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
Disclaimer:  Any opinions expressed here do not reflect the opinions of
Compaq Computer Corp.  They make computers.  I make noise.