HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: gld@cunixb.cc.columbia.edu (Gary L Dare)
Subject: Re: Anyone want to buy a used country?
Reply-To: gld@cunixb.cc.columbia.edu (Gary L Dare)
Organization: The Bates Motel
Date: Sun, 22 Nov 1992 01:56:12 GMT

jmorriso@ee.ubc.ca (John Paul Morrison) writes:
>
>AS for the delays of waiting in lines for toll booths: this is a 
>red-herring.  Complete non-issue! There are a number of systems 
>being tested where you put a sticker or something on your car, 
>and a scanner at the toll booth deducts the toll as you go by.
>No waiting there. (testing in Houston I think)

If technology can improve the quality of life to allow a user-pays
shift, I'm all right with that ... but if you ever interview at IBM
Research or Bell Labs and sit around a toll booth like I have, then
you'll know what I'm talking about.  I don't know how bad the traffic
tie-ups across the Lions Gate Bridge is, I know that one of Canada's
few toll booths are located there (i.e., that's how few toll booths
we have up north -- I have to talk on a federal scale).

BUT until those sticker/scanner systems are common existence, I'll
only support tolls with that as a rider. (-;

I'm still waiting for those moving beltway networks that'll take me
around standing up at 10 kmph ... 

gld
--
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Je me souviens ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Gary L. Dare				Jesus Saves!
> gld@cunixd.cc.columbia.EDU 		Gretzky gets the rebound -
> gld@cunixc.BITNET			he shoots, he scores!
Newsgroups: can.politics
From: robinson@mdivax1.uucp (Jim Robinson)
Subject: Re: Tories blame Liberals for economy
Reply-To: robinson@mdd.comm.mot.com (Jim Robinson)
Organization: Motorola - Mobile Data Division; Richmond, BC
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1 PL7]
Date: 21 Nov 92 01:45:39 GMT

Marc Riese (riese@litsun.epfl.ch) wrote:
>
>Radio Canada showed a clip of a Tory money raising dinner held in
>Toronto Thursday (or Wednesday). While addressing the audience,
>Mulroney made some claim to the effect that the majority of the blame
>for Canada's current economic mess should go to the Liberal party.
>
>In the very same edition, the CBC showed that the Tories have yet
>again managed to have a budget deficit above $30 billion, and that
>this year it is more than $3 billion worse than planned.
>What irks me is that despite the record of the Progressive Conservative
>party, some people still believe that they are particularly good at managing
>the economy. One begins to think that a ten year-old could do better.

I like, as much as the next person, to complain about the PCs and the
deficit, but in all fairness the deficit is now significantly lower than it
was when the PCs took over - both in constant dollars and as a percentage
of GDP (the metric that really matters). And they did indeed inherit a mess
from the Liberals, though 8 years is long enough that they should stop
whining about it.

However, the real question is what should they have done? They raised taxes
massively and have earned scorn from the taxpayer for so doing. Every time
they try to make a spending cut, at least one, and often more, special
interest group goes ballistic and seems to garner public support. The big
three spending areas are health, education, and welfare - where would any
of you have made the cuts (sincere question)?

>Who will pay for this irresponsability?

Who do you think :-)

>Voter should not accept this.

But voters want to have their cake and eat it too. Until voters decide the
difference between frills and necessities, we will see this type of thing
continue - it is simply not in the interests of the politicians to change
it otherwise.
-- 
Jim Robinson
robinson@mdd.comm.mot.com
{ubc-cs!van-bc,uunet}!mdivax1!robinson
From: audetf@Software.Mitel.COM (Francois Audet)
Newsgroups: can.politics
Subject: Re: Toronto Sun: another case of paranoia???
Date: 18 Nov 92 16:23:17 GMT
Organization: Mitel. Kanata (Ontario). Canada.

In article news@sifon.cc.mcgill.ca writes:
>What nobody seems to have mentioned in this thread is that the
>Toronto Sun is a scurrilous rag whose contents deserve only scorn.
>At least that was my impression of the paper when I lived in
>Toronto (pre-1986).  Has it changed?  If not, why are we devoting
>bandwidth to this garbage?

Agreed.

It reminds me the last time I was in the States: they had a news
report on TV based on a article in "Photo Police" (a racist article on
blacks). Nowhere was it mentioned that "Photo Police" was a piece of
shit.


-- 
                                                       Francois Audet
                                                           '
        Telephone: (613) 592-2121 x1754     Facsimile: (613) 592-4784
                          Internet: Francois.Audet@software.Mitel.COM
Organization: Queen's University at Kingston
Date: Wed, 18 Nov 1992 20:19:18 EST
From: andy <2893684@QUCDN.QueensU.CA>
Newsgroups: can.politics
Subject: Re: Jean Chretien
 <1992Nov16.164827.6284@cerberus.ulaval.ca> <BxuKu3.FMn@watserv2.uwaterloo.ca>

In article <BxuKu3.FMn@watserv2.uwaterloo.ca>, tdwebste@sparta.uwaterloo.ca
(Timothy D. Webster) says:
>
>In article <1992Nov16.164827.6284@cerberus.ulaval.ca> plahaie@gel.ulaval.ca
>writes:
>>
>>Christopher Browne wwrote that:
>>
>>>You're certainly lumping all of the "evil francophones" in one pile.
>>>There ARE some differences between Parizeau and Chretien.  (Parizeau
>>>speaks more fluent English than Chretien, for one thing :-)).
>>
>>Jean Chretien does not speak  the french language much better than he speaks
>english
>>so we could ask questions about what he could be able to think.  My opinion
>is
>that
>>he will be a puppet at the sevice of someone else (not known by everyone).
>>If you want to live in a free country do not vote for that muppet.
>
>So what magget, I meen muppet do you suggest? I am not going to vote
>communist (NDP). We have seen what the Tories can do. Should I vote for

If you can call the NDP communist, can I call the Reform Party, Nazis, it's
the same sort of feeble-minded comment. You forgot the crypto part though:)

>the Reform Party? I don't think so! The Bloc de Quebecios? My neighbours
>would kill me if they found out. That is if I didn't kill myself first.
>
>If Chretien has any good qualities, it is that you can't accuss him of
>talking out of both sides of his mouth at once. :-)
>
>-Tim.
Newsgroups: can.politics
From: Crawford_Kilian@mindlink.bc.ca (Crawford Kilian)
Subject: Re: Senate Interrogation
Organization: MIND LINK! - British Columbia, Canada
Distribution: can
Date: Sun, 15 Nov 1992 21:19:28 GMT

This thread has frayed a little...the issue isn't whether Bomber Harris was
right, wrong or barking mad. It isn't whether bombing Germany prolonged the
war or shortened it. It's whether someone can discuss a historical issue in
the Canadian mass media and present a particular interpretation that other
people may disagree with.

I hold no particular brief for the McKenna brothers, and I didn't see the
whole series. The Hong Kong sequence didn't seem to me to contradict other
historical accounts of the Canadians' experience there. But for all I know,
that sequence was all baloney.

The view that bombing Germany accomplished nothing militarily useful is not a
new one; I must have read a dozen books that argued (or at least discussed)
that position, and no one complained or had the authors hauled up in front of
a Senate committee.

It might even be that the Senate had a point, but when I heard John Sylvain
(PC-Quebec, appointed 1990, thank you very much Brian) distort Brian
McKenna's college-paper editorials from the 1960s, I knew we were dealing
with good old-fashioned repression like Joe McCarthy used to make.

We'll probably never know (even if we were there) what really happened in the
skies of Germany 50 years ago, and whether it meant a damn thing. But we
ought to know that freedom of expression is under immediate threat from
tax-paid Senators like Sylvain. And we ought to be yelling our heads off
about that, not about Gwynne bloody Dwyer's credibility.

--
Crawford Kilian   Communications Department   Capilano College
North Vancouver BC Canada V7J 3H5
Usenet: Crawford_Kilian@mindlink.bc.ca
Internet: ckilian@first.etc.bc.ca

Newsgroups: can.politics
From: aidler@sanjuan.UVic.CA (E Alan Idler)
Subject: Re: Reform Party
Organization: University of Victoria
Date: 24 Nov 92 02:40:30 GMT

jmorriso@ee.ubc.ca (John Paul Morrison) writes:

>In article <aidler.722412657@sanjuan> aidler@sanjuan.UVic.CA (E Alan Idler) writes:
>>The Reform Party of Canada is committed to 
>>fundamental reforms to the political operation
>>and economic and social policies of the
>>Canadian government.
>>

[ The rest of my own text deleted. ]

>These are excellent principles.

>I want much clearer evidence that the Reform Party is not dragging in
>a lot of relgious, moralistic, sel-righteous dogma in with its policies.

>I am not totally convinced that the Reform Party stands for seperating
>religious and moral issues from the economic and democratic issues.

Religion (or lack of religion) can have a large role in
shaping a person's political perspectives.
I believe it is wrong to discount a person's views just
because they may be "religious."

Preston Manning's religious affiliations are well known.
However, he keeps his religion in his private life and
is willing to work with all people from a wide diversity
of religious backgrounds in building a New Canada.

In no way does the Reform Party assume that Canadians
espose certain religious values.
The Reform Party has stated that the government should 
take no position on moral questions.

A IDLER
Newsgroups: can.politics
From: steven@spxtech.qc.ca (Steve Potter)
Subject: Re: Quebec
Distribution: can.politics
Date: Tue, 17 Nov 1992 20:13:00 GMT
Organization: Securiplex Technologies Inc., Montreal, Canada
X-Bytes: 706

> From article <1992Nov16.152240.5667@cerberus.ulaval.ca>, by beaucham@astro.phy.ulaval.ca (Dominique Beauchamp):
> 
> P.S.  Pour un francophobe, tu te debrouilles excessivement bien en
> francais.  Peut-etre que la meilleure facon de combattre ses ennemis
> est de bien les connaitre...?
> 

de plus.... je ne suis pas "francophobe" du tout.

J'ai des ami(e)s francophone au Quebec, aussi en Europe.

-- 
  ///==================================================================\\\
  ||| Steve Potter:         steven%spxtech@CAM.ORG                     |||
  ||| Expertise/Experience: Computer Systems Engineering / Real Ale /  |||
  |||                       Politics in Education in Quebec            |||
Newsgroups: can.politics
From: cscullion@trentu.ca (Chris D. Scullion)
Subject: Canada and the Caribbean
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41    
Organization: Trent University Computer Services Department
Date: Mon, 23 Nov 1992 03:52:00 GMT


Greetings....

I'm doing some research on Canadian foreign development policy in the 
Caribbean between 1970 and 1982.  If anyone was involved in the Senate or 
Commons discussions during those times, regarding the formulation of 
development policy in the Caribbean, please reply to the address below.


Thanks in advance!

				chris scullion
				cscullion@trentu.ca

Newsgroups: can.politics
From: beaucham@astro.phy.ulaval.ca (Dominique Beauchamp)
Subject: Re: Quebec
Organization: Universite Laval, Ste-Foy, Qc, Canada
Distribution: can.politics
Date: Mon, 16 Nov 1992 15:22:40 GMT

In article <1992Nov8.103905.6682@spxtech.qc.ca> steven@spxtech.qc.ca (Steve Potter) writes:
>From article <1992Nov5.132132.7992@cerberus.ulaval.ca>,
>by beaucham@astro.phy.ulaval.ca
>Dominique Beauchamp writes:-
>
>>
>> .....
>>
>> ...  Nous, les Quebecois, nous nous votons des lois pour proteger notre
>> culture (loi 101 par exemple) alors que les anglos croient que nous faisons
>> ca par racisme.  Il faut vraiment etre bas et inculte pour croire ca.
>
>Je suis "bas et inculte" :-)
>

Je suis desole pour toi, Steve...


>> Je ne connais pas beaucoup d'anglophones qui ont eu de la difficulte a se
>> faire "servir" en anglais au Quebec.
>
>Je connais "beaucoup d'anglophones qui ont eu de la difficulte" a faire
>eduquer leurs enfants dans les ecoles de leur propre langue au Quebec.
>

Nomme m'en un et je te croierai...

>> 
>> A moins que de vouloir proteger sa langue et sa culture soit raciste...
>>  Pourrait-on m'eclairer la-dessus? s.v.p.
>> 
>
>"de vouloir proteger sa langue et sa culture" ne soit pas du tout raciste.
>
>De nier le droit de faire eduquer ses enfants dans l'ecole publique de
>son choix est un violation des droits et libertes humaines.

Cher Steve, supposons que tu aies des enfants et que tu demenage en Chine.
Vas-tu les envoyer a l'ecole anglaise?  Lorsque je connaitrai ta reponse,
je serai en mesure de t'apporter quelques faits...

>
>De forcer des familles a envoyer leurs enfants aux ecoles francaises quand
>il y a des ecoles anglaises publique disponibles est raciste.

Pour qu'il y ait racisme, il doit generalement y avoir deux races.  Or 
malheureusement, je suis probablement de la meme race que toi...

>
>Comprends-tu? Je pense que non! :-(
>

Non je ne comprends pas car je suis bouche de nature.  D'ailleurs, nous
les Quebecois, (et les autres Francophones qu'il serait injuste d'oublier),
nous voulons proteger notre langue __UNIQUEMENT__ pour vous emmerder, c'est
bien connu...

>

Je te souhaite une bonne journee.

Dominique Beauchamp,
le gars qui __d'habitude__ se choque rapidement.

beaucham@phy.ulaval.ca

P.S.  Pour un francophobe, tu te debrouilles excessivement bien en
francais.  Peut-etre que la meilleure facon de combattre ses ennemis
est de bien les connaitre...?

Newsgroups: can.politics,soc.culture.canada
From: steven@spxtech.qc.ca (Steve Potter)
Subject: Re: Quebec
Date: Wed, 18 Nov 1992 14:28:35 GMT
Organization: Securiplex Technologies Inc., Montreal, Canada
X-Bytes: 1889

From article <Bxvtp6.Ex9@DMI.USherb.CA>, by paien00@DMI.USherb.CA (Nick):
> steven@spxtech.qc.ca (Steve Potter) a ecrit:
>
> [.....]
>
>>In response to being reminded that 12,000 English children are also denied
>>access to their own (existing!) language community schools in Quebec, [Denis]
>>says that those families came here voluntarily after such rules came into
>>existence and complain.
>>
>>People who think rules are racist or unjust should not complain about them
>>if they came here after those rules were established! 
>>So to speak. :-(
> 
> No but I mean if I move for BC one day, I'm not going to complain about the
> fact that there's no French school there... Same thing if I move to Japan!
> 

But there ARE English language schools in Quebec that English children
are being denied access to!

Are there any French language schools in Japan?

If you move to a neighbourhood in B.C. where there is a French public school,
your French-speaking children will not be denied access to that school.

It is true that there are French communities in Canada that do not have
their own schools, and in some areas there are sufficient French-speaking
families to warrant funding such schools, but there is no legislation in
ROC like that in Quebec that denies access to their own language schools
for official minority language children.

If you moved to a neighbourhood in B.C. where there was a French school
across the street - would you keep your mouth shut if the B.C. government
sent you a letter declaring that your children were "ineligible for
instruction in French"?

-- 
  ///==================================================================\\\
  ||| Steve Potter:         steven%spxtech@CAM.ORG                     |||
  ||| Expertise/Experience: Computer Systems Engineering / Real Ale /  |||
  |||                       Politics in Education in Quebec            |||
From: whare@ac.dal.ca
Newsgroups: can.politics
Subject: George's Bank dispute
Date: 17 Nov 92 21:04:25 -0400
Organization: Dalhousie University, Halifax, Nova Scotia, Canada

	O.K. This is VERY URGENT! I am doing a mock debate of the
International Court of Justice hearing of George's Banks. This took
place in the early '80s. Any information on points of either side 
would be GREATLY appreciated. Thank you in advance.

	Stephen, my mark depends on this,Hare.

	P.S. This hearing was about who owned what ocean waters.
Canada and the U.S.A.disagreed on who owned George's Banks.

 	Once again, thankyou to any replies.
Newsgroups: can.politics
From: schuck@fraser.sfu.ca (Bruce Jonathan Schuck)
Subject: Re: Senate Interrogation
Reply-To: Bruce_Schuck@sfu.ca
Organization: Simon Fraser University, Burnaby, B.C., Canada
Distribution: can
Date: Sun, 15 Nov 1992 20:13:44 GMT

labach@acs.ucalgary.ca (Terence Michael Labach) writes:

>In article <schuck.721767010@sfu.ca> schuck@fraser.sfu.ca (Bruce
>Jonathan Schuck) writes: 
>> 
>> John G. Spragge <SPRAGGEJ@QUCDN.QueensU.CA> writes:
>> 
>> >But they did not have the "technical expertise", they needed, and
>> >they knew they didn't have it, and on that basis they consciously
>> >decided (by Harris's own account) to "mass bomb large targets" and
>> >not to go after specific war industries. You'll find the exact quote
>> >in Gwynne Dyer's book "War", and most interesting reading it makes.
>> 
>> Gwynne Dyer? Another CBC revisionist documentry maker. Thats your
>> source?

>That would be the same Gwynne Dyer, who in recent interviews (most
>recently on Morningside on Nov. 11), has criticized the McKenna
>brothers, creators of the Valour and the Horror, for factual errors and
>their hypersensitivity to _any_ criticism.

I'm impressed. He was less impressive during the Gulf War. Thats when
I lost interest in what he had to say about anything. He *seemed* to be
towing the usual anti-US CBC line.

>If you want to debate the facts, fine.  But if you haven't even made the
>effort to find out what those facts are, you can save your
>hero-worshipping paranoia for Legion meetings.  

Who said anything about hero-worshipping paranoia?

I think the biggest problem with the V & H [aside from the factual
errors] is the way the CBC presented it with no chance of rebuttal.

This whole debate should have taken place on the CBC after each
episode was broadcast. Let McKenna present his side, and let
dissenters present theirs. Whats wrong with that?

The CBC is supposed to represent all Canadians, and on an issue that
is so painful for veterans, their voice should have been heard.

Why was the CBC so incapable of reserving time for debating this issue
at the time? If it wasn't for the Senate Committee and the Veterans
groups we wouldn't be having this debate and you wouldn't be calling
me names [at least not on this issue]

Maybe McKenna was right on some of his more outrageous claims,
but why shouldn't he have to defend them at the time in front of
comparable sized audiences?

>(Did you even know that Gwynne Dyer is a veteran?)

Which war?
-- 
......

Newsgroups: can.politics,soc.culture.canada
From: jmorriso@ee.ubc.ca (John Paul Morrison)
Subject: Re: Virginie's TV violence petition
Organization: University of BC, Electrical Engineering
Date: Sun, 22 Nov 1992 08:12:51 GMT

In article <1992Nov20.110332.4393@spxtech.qc.ca> steven@spxtech.qc.ca (Steve Potter) writes:
>From article <1992Nov19.105641.1@uwovax.uwo.ca>, by 4224_5201@uwovax.uwo.ca (John LaRocque):
>>      Have any of you guys seen the petition from a little girl named
>> Virginie[?]
>
>Yes, I signed it.
>
>Does anybody want the text posted?
>

not really.

>>      According to her petition (which apparantly 1 million morons signed),
>> tv is responsible for North American violence. Her elder sister was the
>> victim of a violent crime, and according to Virginie, TV is responsible.
>> Bullshit!
>> 
>> [Waffle deleted.]
>>
>
>Am I a moron because I believe there is too much gratuitous violence
>on TV - and I believe studies that have linked it to violence in
>society to one degree or another?
>

You are not a moron for believing that there is too much violence on TV anyway,
ut it pretty easy to take shots at studies like that. Do they show correlation 
or cause? it's easier to show a correlation that to show a cause effect 
relationship: Violence on TV has increased (by what objective scale, one
wonders), violence in society has increased, therefore violence on TV
causes violence in society. BZZZZZZT!!! A more convincing argument is that
cities are bigger, and bigger cities are more prone to violence because
there is no community standard, the population is more transient, with
no commitment to others and community. Or how about: violence has not actually
increased, because rape, abuse etc. has been under-reported, due to social
stigma and attitudes.

>I'd like to see less stylised violence and commercialism in kid's
>cartoons too.


Then do something about it. Boycott products that support and advocate 
violence (ie advertise during shows that you consider violent), and buy
products that don't. Advertising pays for TV, and TV stations put on
shows they think we'll watch.


Better yet, change the channel. Noone's forcing it on you.
>
>I would also like to see domestic gun ownership banned too!

while you're at it, why don't you ban chainsaws, axes, knives, cross-bows
etc.
>
>I'd also like to see permanent world peace.
>
>Am I dreaming? :-)
>
>-- 
>  ///==================================================================\\\
>  ||| Steve Potter:         steven%spxtech@CAM.ORG                     |||
>  ||| Expertise/Experience: Computer Systems Engineering / Real Ale /  |||
>  |||                       Politics in Education in Quebec            |||


-- 
__________________________________________________________________________
 John Paul Morrison                     |  
 University of British Columbia, Canada |  
 Electrical Engineering                 |   .sig file without a cause
 jmorriso@ee.ubc.ca              VE7JPM |  
________________________________________|_________________________________
From: audetf@Software.Mitel.COM (Francois Audet)
Newsgroups: can.politics
Subject: Re: Definition of/d'un "Quebecois"
Date: 16 Nov 92 22:21:56 GMT
Distribution: can
Organization: Mitel. Kanata (Ontario). Canada.

In article <BxprxH.2uu@mach1.wlu.ca> scooper6@mach1.wlu.ca (stephen cooper 9209 U) writes:
>What is the definition of a "Quebecois"?  I'm especially interested in what
>Quebec nationalists have to say.  Is a Quebecois someone who lives in
>Quebec, or is it much narrower, i.e. someone who can trace their family in
>Quebec back to the 1600's?

A "quebecois" is simply a Quebec citizen. Anyone legally a Quebec
citizen.

PS: It helps if that person thinks of hiself/herself as being a
quebecois.



-- 
                                                       Francois Audet
                                                           '
        Telephone: (613) 592-2121 x1754     Facsimile: (613) 592-4784
                          Internet: Francois.Audet@software.Mitel.COM
Newsgroups: can.politics
From: migod@turing.toronto.edu (Mike Godfrey)
Subject: Re: Toronto Sun: another case of paranoia???
Organization: CSRI, University of Toronto
Date: 18 Nov 92 17:00:36 GMT

In article <17NOV92.19053629.0068@VM1.MCGILL.CA> news@sifon.cc.mcgill.ca writes:
>Discussion of an anti-Quebec (?) comic strip in the Toronto Sun
>deleted.
>
>What nobody seems to have mentioned in this thread is that the
>Toronto Sun is a scurrilous rag whose contents deserve only scorn.

It's very handy for lining litter boxes, and it's also the right size for
wrapping fish & chips.  Beyond that, I haven't found a use for the Sun.

(Torontonians who wish to eat politically correct fish & chips may choose 
 to substitute Now magazine.)

The Star is the paper of choice for the painter -- bigger page size and
lots of bulk in a single issue.

The Globe?  There's not much you can do with it except read it ...

-- 
Mike Godfrey 				Motto of the "new" Canada:
Dept of Comp Sci, UofT			    E pluribus complures.
migod@turing.toronto.edu		    Out of many, several.
Newsgroups: can.politics,soc.culture.canada,can.followup