From: sieferme@stein.u.washington.edu (Eric Sieferman)
Subject: Re: Choice! (was: Re: Vice Shrub won)
Organization: University of Washington, Seattle
Date: Thu, 15 Oct 1992 23:56:24 GMT

In article <3856@eastman.UUCP> pawlicki@kodak.com (Ted Pawlicki) writes:
>>|>Eric Sieferman :
>>|>As soon as I am satisfied that
>>|>no voucher (tax) money goes to religious schools, then
>>|>I'll pay attention.            ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Yes.  I, Eric, said this.

>>|Ted Pawlicki:
>>|Look, the problem is education, not religion. The fact of the matter is
>>|that a lot of religious schools do a very good job of education. Can't you
>>|put your hatred of religion aside in the interest of quality education? 
>>|Preoccupation with these kind of issues are one of the reasons that the US
>>|educational system is in bad shape.
>>
>>Eric Sieferman :
>>I don't hate religion, but I also don't want my tax dollars
>>supporting it.  Fund your church yourself.  I refuse to fund
>>it for you.

I, Eric, did NOT say this, although I find the sentiment appealing.

>Certainly, you are the only one who can judge your own heart, but I
>think that most people can detect hatred when they read it.

This reminds me of the evangelizing postings from Christians 
on alt.atheist.  When the errors of fact and/or logic are
pointed out to the Christian, the reply is usually
"you atheists are full of hate".

>Senselessly oppossing a group or an insitution to the point where it
>hurts society as a whole is a pretty good definition of hatred in my book.

My opposition to tax funding of church-related schools is
not "senseless".  It is consistent with the US Bill of Rights,
and is a position which many people of all faiths (and non-faiths)
agree with.

>One thing seems certain, however: you don`t seem to care much for education.

Huh?  I am wildly in favor of education, for people of all ages;
including the sharpening of critical thinking and creativity,
as well as the accumulation of factual knowledge.

>It is in society's interest that children learn to read. A lot of religions
>run some very good schools.

I know.  Some of the better schools in many cities are church-related
schools.  Many of the best schools are private, non-church-related.
There are even a few good public schools.  Your point is ...

>I am sorry that you don't like it, but welcome
>to planet Earth. You can choose to ignore, you can even oppose this fact,
>but you oppose it to the detriment of education in our society.

I like planet Earth very much.

>Sending tax 
>money to religious schools is a method of purchasing quality educational
>services. Plain and simple.

I wish I could remember who said "Truth is rarely plain and
never simple."  

>It is no more funding a religion than buying 
>a sandwich from a Koser deli would be.

I've never been to a Kosher deli in which anyone attempted
to indoctrinate me or my children in Judaism.  Your analogy
is seriously inappropriate.

>I think that your quickness to equate 
>a religion with a school run by a religion, and your inability to accept the
>fact that religious schools can do a good job of education, shows where your
>heart is at on this matter. 

I agree that good education can be available in church-related
schools.  I don't agree that tax dollars should go to
support them.  My head and my heart are in total 
harmony on this issue; both are feeling fine and
functioning well, thank you.

>Ted Pawlicki
>pawlicki@kodak.com  


-- 
| Eric Sieferman            |    sieferme@u.washington.edu          |
| U. of W., M.C.I.S.        |    (206) 685-3104                     |