HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: barnett@grymoire.crd.ge.com (Bruce Barnett)
Newsgroups: comp.windows.news
Subject: Re: Future of NeWS
Date: 21 Aug 92 21:40:38 GMT
	<BARNETT.92Aug20135049@grymoire.crd.ge.com> <3201@peking.gdwb.oz.au>
Reply-To: barnett@crdgw1.ge.com
Organization: GE Corp. R & D, Schenectady, NY

In article <3201@peking.gdwb.oz.au> csb@gdwb.oz.au (Craig Bishop) writes:

>   I really don't think it is their fault. Sure everybody agrees
>   that NeWS (with a little work) was far superior to X. But then
>   you had every other Unix vendor jumping on the X11 band wagon
>   just because Sun was working on NeWS, X11 was it's only
>   competitor.

I think the fault was that there were very few programs that showed the
power of NeWS, and the "official" development environment was real
bad. Yes, Sun had to do X. Yes, NeWS was on a back burner for a while
(but TNT 3.0 did come out). NeWS is still a bastard child that no-one
wants to recognize. Without the developers, there are no applications.
Without the applications, there isn't a need for development tools.
Without the tools, there are no developers. 

NeWS can still be a very strong advantage for special applications. If
Sun continues to support it, NeWS can gain popularity by sheer mass.
Many of us are designing applications to run over a wide area network.
This is the time to go from group-ware to Enterprise-ware. Think of
all of those PC's running Solaris 2.0 and having a X/NeWS server.
Imagine a system that could dynamically download the necessary pieces
to improve performance over a serial line. Consider how much easier it
is to do this than to wait for X11R[6789] to come out.

Many people, including me, have complained about the development
environment of NeWS. Funny thing is, the Mac and PC had (have) HORRID
environments. A lot of applications still get developed. If enough
copies of something exist in the world, it will be used. I can see the
future - NeWS finally becomes "fashionable" and Sun announces they will
discontinue support. Heavy sigh.....
--
Bruce Barnett <barnett@crd.ge.com> uunet!crdgw1!barnett
Newsgroups: comp.windows.news,alt.sources
From: bisc@zellweger.ch (Thomas K. Bischoff)
Subject: Re: ps2bits fix
Reply-To: bisc@zellweger.CH (Thomas K. Bischoff)
Organization: Zellweger Uster AG, Switzerland
Date: Fri, 21 Aug 92 08:54:09 GMT

In article <l96cogINNcgb@exodus.Eng.Sun.COM> rberlin@birdland.Eng.Sun.COM (Rich Berlin) writes:
>In article <Bt94AM.A9p@dswe.navy.mil.nz> jedge@dswe.navy.mil.nz (John Edge) writes:
>>> (b) because of this obligation, the standard right-to-use license for
>>>     OpenWindows SPECIFICALLY prohibits using xnews to rasterize files
>>>     for hard copy.
>>
>>The first para says not to print raster files produced from PostScript
>>"IF THEY CONTAIN RASTERIZATIONS OF THE 57 FOLIO FONTS" but subpara (b)
>>claims to prohibit it entirely.  Which am I to believe?
>
>Subparagraph b is correct; the license prohibits using xnews to
>rasterize anything--with or without fonts--if the end result will be
>hardcopy.  The fonts are the major sticking point, i.e. the area in
>which (I am given to understand) a font vendor could sue directly or
>force us to do so; but the prohibition is broader than that.  You may
>not use xnews to rasterize for hardcopy, except via NeWSprint.
>

Does this mean it is illegal to use the Snapshot utility in the the deskset
tools, if you don't have NeWSprint ? Especially the print button ?

-- 
Thomas K. Bischoff    Net: bit@ten.ch,bisc@zellweger.ch 
***** Minds, like parachutes, only function when open.

Xref: sparky comp.windows.news:464 comp.lang.postscript:4314 comp.sys.sun.apps:1624
From: rberlin@birdland.Eng.Sun.COM (Rich Berlin)
Newsgroups: comp.windows.news,comp.lang.postscript,comp.sys.sun.apps
Subject: Re: ps2bits fix
Date: 15 Aug 1992 01:11:58 GMT
Organization: SunPics -- A Sun Microsystems Business
NNTP-Posting-Host: birdland


>> [...] they know what the bug is and it is not in the news server but
>> in the ps2bits script itself.  He also said that they aren't
>> supposed to say how to fix the bug because of some problem with the
>> TypeScalar license.
	
> I looked into the problem and found a fix.  Add the following lines to
> ps2bits, right before the line that says "end definepackage
> beginpackage".  By the way, this is for educational purposes only,
> don't actually *use* it, because certain managers at Sun don't want
> you to get the most out of OpenWindows, and you might hurt their
> feelings.

Every few months somebody posts about how to use OpenWindows to
rasterize PostScript; and every few months I or someone else has to
play the heavy and ask them please not to print raster files produced
with this technique IF THEY CONTAIN RASTERIZATIONS OF THE 57 FOLIO
FONTS.

With the exception of the Courier fonts (which are public domain) all
of the 57 fonts distributed with OpenWindows are licensed FOR SCREEN
USE ONLY.  The font foundries from whom these fonts are licensed feel
that users should pay separate royalties if they want to print with
them, and in fact part of the revenue from every NeWSprint license
goes to pay these extra royalties.

So there are two things every user of ps2bits should know:

(a) Sun has a legal obligation to these font foundries to protect
    their intellectual property; and

(b) because of this obligation, the standard right-to-use license for
    OpenWindows SPECIFICALLY prohibits using xnews to rasterize files
    for hard copy.

-- Rich
--
===============================================================================
Richard.Berlin@Eng.Sun.COM   |   The significant problems we face cannot be
			     |   solved at the same level of thinking we were
			     |   at when we created them.  -- Albert Einstein
Newsgroups: comp.windows.news
From: fgreco@shearson.com (Frank Greco)
Subject: Re: Why is initial screen I/O so slow? (=NeWS!)
Organization: Lehman Brothers
Date: Wed, 19 Aug 1992 16:51:07 GMT

Basile STARYNKEVITCH <basile@soleil.serma.cea.fr> writes:
>I was a (happy) former NeWS programmer - now i'm using X. Some rumors

	Boy do I *know* that feeling.  I have tempered my thoughts
	regarding X (olvwm, XView, UIT, XV++, et al. have all helped
	tremendously), but I wistfully remember the elegant days.

>are saying that Sun will give up NeWS (in particular, some people

	I have heard this extremely unfortunate rumor also.

>expect Sun online HELP and AnswerBook to become a X11 only product). I
>still hope that:
[stuff deleted]

	How about Sun donating the NeWS src to MIT?  If they are truly
	going to give it up, then it is not going to hurt them to give
	the thing to MIT, then we can still use the very cool
	HyperLook.

> b) eventually X12, or any other successor of X11 (eg a programmable,
>   enhanced 8 1/2 window server from Plan 9), will be some kind of
>   programmable, and with an imaging model in between X11 (pixels) and
>   NeWS (complex shapes).

	This was exactly Owen Densmore's (inventor of the NeWS classing
	mechanism) thought way back at a Usenix in Baltimore (2 - 3
	years ago?)

>I know that i'm currently dreaming... I still hope that i will not
>program with X11 in 2010!! For multi-media, high resolution screens,
>X11 will be not enough (too much bandwidth, too hard to program).

	You got that right.  But from docs that I have read (Sun...
	please tell me that this is wrong) it seems that SunSoft's
	Project DOE assumes X is the windowing system.  I hope I have
	read this incorrectly.

	It's interesting that the person giving the multimedia
	presentation at the last SUG conference said that the multimedia
	stuff would all be implemented over X.  When I asked why
	not the net-efficient NeWS, I got silence.

	Frank G.

	NeWS is a programmer's playground; X is a prison.  You don't
	get paid for playing in the playground these days, but you can
	make some decent money in the license plate business.
--
+-On Assignment at: Lehman Brothers-+-Office: Mercury Technologies, Inc.-+
| World Financial Center, 11th Floor| PO Box 529                         |
| New York City, NY 10285           | Fanwood, NJ 07023                  |
| email: fgreco@shearson.com        | email: fgreco@mercury.com          |
Newsgroups: comp.windows.news
From: uad1077@dircon.co.uk (Ian Kemmish)
Subject: Re: apps that use news
Date: Sat, 15 Aug 1992 13:21:22 GMT

lee@sq.sq.com (Liam R. E. Quin) writes:

>wrv@balr.com (Bill Vogel) says:
>> People who bitch and moan about how slow NeWS is, ad nauseum... just
>> don't get the picture.
>
>fwp@CC.MsState.Edu (Frank Peters) writes:
>> [...] The problem is that Sun has a single server
>> (xnews) which provides both X11 and NeWS support.  That server is
>> considerably slower than the MIT pure X11 server on the same platform.
>
> ......
>
>It is not at all clear to me that there is a large performance loss, as you
>imply, from including the NeWS support in the OpenWindows xnews server.
>
>Or the other way round, for that matter.
>
>Lee
>

Assuming you have enough workstation to go round.  I have three
window systems on my small IPC.  First, a minimalist homebrew
NeWS-only server that's pretty fast (but not as fast as 8 1/2, sigh).
Second X11r4, which is OK as long as you don't try to do stuff
in lots of different windows.  Thirdly, xnews, which is diabolical
if you want to do much more than scroll through a file:-(.

I hate X11 for the reason that it is a classic `gas-guzzling' piece
of software.  Because of this, I'm forced to hate xnews as well,
since it chews up even more resources on ever simpler tasks.  Why
should I have to buy more and more memory and disc just because
someone somewhere isn't as bothered about the performance that the
user sees as I am?

-- 
Ian D. Kemmish                    Tel. +44 767 601 361
18 Durham Close                   uad1077@dircon.co.uk
Biggleswade                       uknet!dircon!uad1077
Beds SG18 8HZ United Kingdom
Newsgroups: comp.windows.news,comp.lang.postscript,comp.sys.sun.apps
From: cristy@eplrx7.es.duPont.com (Cristy)
Subject: Re: ps2bits fix
Organization: DuPont Central Research & Development
Date: Thu, 20 Aug 1992 12:19:53 GMT

In article <l96cogINNcgb@exodus.Eng.Sun.COM> rberlin@birdland.Eng.Sun.COM (Rich Berlin) writes:
>You can not use xnews to rasterize for hardcopy, except via NeWSprint.

Alternatively you can use `convert' from contrib/ImageMagick.tar.Z on 
export.lcs.mit.edu to rasterize your Postscript:

  convert -density 300x300 image.ps image.sun

-- 
cristy@dupont.com
Xref: sparky comp.windows.news:465 comp.lang.postscript:4315 comp.sys.sun.apps:1625
From: guy@Auspex.COM (Guy Harris)
Newsgroups: comp.windows.news,comp.lang.postscript,comp.sys.sun.apps
Subject: Re: ps2bits fix
Date: 15 Aug 92 17:57:25 GMT
Followup-To: comp.windows.news
Organization: Auspex Systems, Santa Clara

>With the exception of the Courier fonts (which are public domain) all
>of the 57 fonts distributed with OpenWindows are licensed FOR SCREEN
>USE ONLY.

What about the other fonts distributed with OpenWindows that appear to
have come from X11R4 ("-adobe-helvetica-*", "-adobe-new century
schoolbook-*", "-adobe-symbol-*", "-adobe-times-*",
"-bitstream-charter-*")?  They appear to have copyright notices that
grant "Permission to use, copy, modify, and distribute this software and
its documentation for any purpose and without fee", as long as you don't
file the copyright notice off, put the copyright and permission notice
in the supporting documentation, and don't use the supplier's name in
advertising without permission.

Or are the versions that come with OW *not* derived from the X11R4
versions, and *not* freely-usable in that fashion?
From: hopkins@turing.ac.uk (Don Hopkins)
Newsgroups: comp.windows.news
Subject: Re: apps that use NeWS (HyperLook, SimCity)
Date: 20 Aug 92 16:16:57 GMT
	<1737@ernohb.UUCP>
Followup-To: comp.windows.news
Organization: The Turing Institute, Ltd.

token@ernohb.UUCP (thomas kendelbacher) writes:

   |> 1. Where to FTP the HyperLook runtime from.
   |> -------------------------------------------
   |> 
   |> The HyperLook look runtime system can be obtained via anonymous ftp
   |> from the following sites (the turing.com site also provides product
   |> and ordering information):
   |> 
   |> turing.com (192.133.90.28)      pub/HyperLook1.5-runtime.tar.Z
   |> ftp.uu.net (137.39.1.9)         graphics/NeWS/HyperLook1.5-runtime.tar.Z
   |> src.doc.ic.ac.uk (146.169.2.1)  computing/vendor/turing.com/HyperLook1.5-runtime.tar.Z
   |> 
   |> 2. Where to FTP SimCity from.
   |> -----------------------------
   |> 
   |> Good news!  The HyperLook edition of SimCity for SPARC is now
   |> available via anonymous ftp.
   |> 
   |> turing.com (192.133.90.28)      pub/SimCity.tar.Z
   |> ftp.uu.net (137.39.1.9)         vendor/dux/SimCity.tar.Z
   |> src.doc.ic.ac.uk (146.169.2.1)  computing/vendor/turing.com/SimCity.tar.Z
   |> 
   |> [...]

   Does anybody know how/where to get these without ftp access
   (i.e. from mail servers)?

You can order SimCity (which includes the HyperLook runtime) from DUX Software.

    DUX Software
    4906 El Camino Real
    Suite 1
    Los Altos, CA 94022
    Phone #:  1-800-543-4999
	   or 1-415-967-1500
    FAX #:    1-415-967-5528

	-Don
Newsgroups: comp.windows.news,comp.lang.postscript,comp.sys.sun.apps
From: lwv26@cas.org (Larry W. Virden)
Subject: Re: ps2bits fix
Followup-To: comp.windows.news,comp.lang.postscript,comp.sys.sun.apps
Reply-To: lvirden@cas.org (Larry W. Virden)
Organization: Nedriv Software and Shoe Shiners, Uninc.
Date: Thu, 20 Aug 1992 11:49:56 GMT

In article <l96cogINNcgb@exodus.Eng.Sun.COM> rberlin@birdland.Eng.Sun.COM (Rich Berlin) writes:
:In article <Bt94AM.A9p@dswe.navy.mil.nz> jedge@dswe.navy.mil.nz (John Edge) writes:
:>> (b) because of this obligation, the standard right-to-use license for
:>>     OpenWindows SPECIFICALLY prohibits using xnews to rasterize files
:>>     for hard copy.
:>
:>The first para says not to print raster files produced from PostScript
:>"IF THEY CONTAIN RASTERIZATIONS OF THE 57 FOLIO FONTS" but subpara (b)
:>claims to prohibit it entirely.  Which am I to believe?
:
:Subparagraph b is correct; the license prohibits using xnews to
:rasterize anything--with or without fonts--if the end result will be
:hardcopy.  The fonts are the major sticking point, i.e. the area in
:which (I am given to understand) a font vendor could sue directly or
:force us to do so; but the prohibition is broader than that.  You may
:not use xnews to rasterize for hardcopy, except via NeWSprint.
:

And you mean using xnews directly right?  If one could use psh, that
would be okay?  What about using the OpenWindows snapshot program to
capture a portion of the screen?  Or Frame's screen capture, etc.?  Or
is it illegal to print anything that appears on the screen?
-- 
Larry W. Virden                 UUCP: osu-cis!chemabs!lvirden
Same Mbox: BITNET: lvirden@cas  INET: lvirden@cas.org
Personal: 674 Falls Place,   Reynoldsburg, OH 43068-1614
America Online: lvirden@aol.com
Newsgroups: comp.terminals
Subject: Re: QVT-102
From: phys169@csc.canterbury.ac.nz
Date: 13 Aug 92 10:43:36 +1200
Organization: University of Canterbury, Christchurch, New Zealand

In article <71046.2249221347@kcbbs.gen.nz>, Voodoo@kcbbs.gen.nz (Clarke Anderson) writes:
> Help! I have recently acquired a Qume QVT-102 terminal. I assume it's 
> (somewhat) VT-102 compatable, but there's no manual for it. 

No, it isn't VT-compatible, rather TVI910/ADM5/ADDS/Hazeltine compatible. The
QVT103 is the VT-compatible one in the QVT100x range.  In QVT102(A) mode it is
moderately compatible with TVI925's, WY50's and that generation - if you're 
looking for TERMCAP entries it would be a shame to limit it to oldies like
ADM5's.

>... I can't 
> work out how to save the setup - pushing "setup" gives you the manu 
> of all the options, but there's not a save option.
> 
The QVT102 and QVT102A differ in the way you get into setup (The QVT102A
requires you press Ctrl/Shift/Setup together).  The Shift-S saves the setup
into NVRAM and Shift-D returns all status lines to factory defaults. Shift-R
recalls the previous saved values.

I have the Operator Manual in front of me, if you need more info.

Mark Aitchison, University of Canterbury, New Zealand.
From: jxd7299@hertz.njit.edu (Jing X Ding)
Newsgroups: comp.terminals
Subject: help
Date: 17 Aug 92 17:04:42 GMT
Organization: New Jersey Institute of Technology, Newark, N.J.

Thank you so much!


Jing Ding(jxd7299@hertz.njit.edu)
Newsgroups: comp.terminals
From: schuncke@cwis.unomaha.edu (John Schuncke)
Subject: TVI 950 Help
Summary: Need info for TVI950 controls!
Keywords: TV 950, Televideo
Organization: University of Nebraska at Omaha
Date: Sat, 15 Aug 1992 07:16:53 GMT

Hello all!
For looong, loong, now I've labored with a Televideo 950 (single-page
memory) without any documentation.  If anyone has guidance on control
and escape sequences, plus elements of the setup mode, that they could
e-mail me I'd certainly appreciate it.
                           >JS<
From: gwyn@smoke.brl.mil (Doug Gwyn)
Newsgroups: comp.terminals
Subject: Re: AT&T 5620
Date: 14 Aug 92 21:14:51 GMT
Organization: U.S. Army Ballistic Research Laboratory, APG, MD.

In article <0eVcDdq00WB3QB5U9W@andrew.cmu.edu> gr1c+@andrew.cmu.edu (Greg Howard Rhodes) writes:
>First thing--it has a mouse! What am I supposed to do with this. So
>far, the only time that it has been interesting is when I am looking
>through the setup menu screens (you can click on things instead of
>hitting function keys if you want).
>Does it do any graphics? If so, does anyone have any drivers for it
>(i.e. Gnuplot, etc). 
>Is there anywhere I could get manuals, etc, etc...?
>Any information whatsoever would be appreciated. Thanks!

There is a separate newsgroup, comp.terminals.tty5620, specifically for
this terminal and its descendants (630, 730); you should post a query
there since it's likely to result in more information in response.

Basically, the 5620 DMD was the first commercial realization of the Bell
Labs "Blit" terminal; it has either 256KB or 1MB of RAM, a bunch of ROM,
a WE32010 processor, mouse, keyboard, and 800x1024 "portrait"-oriented
bitmap display.  A section of the RAM is directly mapped to the display,
and the ROM contains a normal X3.64 terminal emulator and (in revision
8;7;5) an operating system that supports multiple windows, or "layers".

Each layer can either use the resident terminal emulator or its own
downloaded code.  The ROM also contains numerous graphic support
functions.  Older models (revision 8;7;3) need to first have the layers
operating system ("layersys") downloaded, after which all models behave
similarly.  Communication between the host computer and the terminal must
be switched to a special packet protocol once the layers system is active;
each layer gets its own shell on the host UNIX system and has its own
communication channel between that shell process and the layer process.

Typical layer processes include troff postprocessors (hardcopy previewers),
utilities to print screen dumps on an attached serial printer, mouse-
driven text editors, interactive drawing programs, etc.  A Blit family
terminal in typical layers use looks very much like an X11 terminal,
although (with the exception of the 730X model) Blit terminals use their
own protocol that is not compatible with the (later developed) X11 system.

Although originally one had to license all the DMD (5620) host support
software, which for most platforms meant porting a huge amount of code,
the "bare bones" needed to enter layers mode of operation on BSD-based
systems was developed and and put into the public domain, and is now
being updated (see recent comp.terminals.tty5620 traffic for details).
Eventually the AT&T UNIX System ToolChest, which is a wonderful source of
valuable "research"-oriented UNIX software, may include enough 5620
support that you could avoid having to license the old DMD host software
packages.

There was also a fairly extensive list of 5620 documentation in recent
traffic in comp.terminals.tty5620.  Good luck!
From: "blair groves" <blair.groves@canrem.com>
Newsgroups: comp.terminals
Subject: televideo_955_help
Date: 12 Aug 92 13:20:26 EST
Reply-To: "blair groves" <blair.groves@canrem.com>
Distribution: comp
Organization: Canada Remote Systems

Hello everyone on the Net, I am looking for someone that has a TeleVideo
955 terminal that supports WordStar mode. I have a 905, that does
support WordStar mode, curiousley enough the 955 doesn't.

Please let me know what revision of firmware you have (you can tell it
by bringing up the self test mode by entering setup mode and pressing
the numeral "1" next to the Escape key... the revision will appear in
the lower left corner of the screen).

Please also reply by E-Mail, since the bandwidth utilisation might not
be appreciated.

Thanks!!

Blair.
---
--
Canada Remote Systems  - Toronto, Ontario/Detroit, MI
World's Largest PCBOARD System - 416-629-7000/629-7044
From: dcm@csn.org (David C. Menges)
Newsgroups: comp.terminals
Subject: vt220 over telnet?
Date: 20 Aug 92 22:17:45 GMT
Organization: Colorado SuperNet, Inc.

A customer of our's, tdotts@csn.org, wants to know if he can
do vt220 graphics via a telnet session.  Please mail him directly.
From: gr1c+@andrew.cmu.edu (Greg Howard Rhodes)
Newsgroups: comp.terminals.tty5620
Subject: One to add to the list...
Date: 17 Aug 92 06:38:20 GMT
Article-I.D.: andrew.seXvbQO00awGI5j09e
Organization: Junior, Physics, Carnegie Mellon, Pittsburgh, PA

Oh, one other question--

Does MacLayers have any connection with AT&T layers?

Also--if everyone mails their answers to me, I'll post a summary.

Greg
Newsgroups: comp.terminals.tty5620
From: R1004@vmcms.csuohio.edu
Subject: New user problems
Organization: CSU
Date: Thu, 20 Aug 1992 20:23:57 GMT

    Greetings,
 
    We aquired a 5620 and the three disk core set from another
department.  I have tried off and on to get the thing to work.
I installed the core system on one of our 3B2/400s.  The dmdck
script ran okay, complained about the packages I didn't have which
I expected.
 
    When I attempt to invoke layers I get the message
"not an xt windowing terminal"  I've all the environment
variables set as the manual requests.  Anyone have any
ideas?  My 705s window okay.
 
    Thanks!
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Bob Martel               |
bob2@cua3.csuohio.edu    |  Lady luck must have been a wonderful girl
R1004@vmcms.csuohio.edu  |    -She's never been a friend of mine!
                         |                        Alan Parsons Project
--------------------------------------------------------------------------