HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: mzimmers@netcom.com (Michael Zimmers)
Subject: Re: Golf News
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services  (408 241-9760 guest) 
Date: Tue, 10 Nov 1992 21:55:10 GMT

In article <1992Nov10.152512.6278@gw.wmich.edu> x90sanson@gw.wmich.edu writes:


>> 	MADRID (UPI) -- Fred Couples and Davis Love III each sank birdie putts
>> on the final hole Sunday to give the United States a 1-stroke victory
>> over Sweden in the $1.1 World Cup of Golf.
                      ^^^^
                          this global recession's getting nasty!
-- 
Michael Zimmers                                    |  Home:  408 996 1984
SoftHelp                                           |  Work:  408 996 1965
Software Solutions for Open Systems                |  Data:  408 996 1974
Newsgroups: rec.sport.golf
From: gcumming@watserv1.uwaterloo.ca (Greg Cummings - Computing Services)
Subject: Golf in/around SF 
Organization: University of Waterloo
Date: Thu, 5 Nov 1992 14:57:53 GMT

 I will be in the San Francisco area (Menlo Park) next week and would like to
golf. Any suggestions wolud be appreciated. Is Pebble Beach an option. What are
greens fees going for etc. The golf season is over here so I'd really like to
get in an extra round or two.

Thanks in advance...  Greg Cummings
                      gcumming@watserv1.uwaterloo.ca
From: petonic@hal.com (Michael A. Petonic)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.golf
Subject: Re: Rust vs Stainless
Date: 12 Nov 92 17:42:19 GMT
	<koenig.721488399@hydra> <1992Nov11.141534.2571@cbnewsh.cb.att.com>
Reply-To: petonic@hal.com (Michael A. Petonic)
Distribution: na
Organization: Henry's Laughing Gas Co., Inc.

In article <1992Nov11.141534.2571@cbnewsh.cb.att.com> warren@cbnewsh.cb.att.com (warren.a.montgomery) writes:
>I believe that most people who take up golf (or any other sport)
>improve rapidly plateau at the "advanced intermediate" level (in
>golf this is probalby 85-95 for most people.)  Getting past that
>point requires either natural talent (very rare), or lots of hard
>work.  New equipment, and knowing how to use it properly
>(something I have seen very little discussion of in golf) can
>reduce the amount of work needed to make a breakthrough.  In the
>past year I traded 25 year old technology for new in both golf and
>skiing.  In golf, I have yet to make a breakthrough.  In skiing, 
>I found out that the new equipment allowed one to ski in a
>different way than the one I learned 25 years ago, allowing
>someone with neither natural talent nor infinite practice time to
>achieve much higher performance than with the older techniques.  I
>suspect a similar breakthrough is possible in golf, but it
>requires the club makers and you to understand how the technology
>can enable a different way to play the game, making it easier for
>more people to play well.

And will probably quickly be made illegal by the PGA... 

Oh well, back to the practice tee.

-pet-
--
Michael A. Petonic	       petonic@hal.com		       +1-512-794-2855
        HaL Computer Systems International, Ltd. -- A Bermuda Corporation
                     Director of Dangerous Activities  [ACK to GeoffK@ism780c]
				 Austin, Texas
                          "No balls, no blue chip."
Newsgroups: rec.sport.golf
From: smccue@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (Shannon McCue)
Subject: re: feel of forged
Organization: The Ohio State University
Distribution: usa
Date: Fri, 13 Nov 1992 14:20:00 GMT

     I ve been playing and caddying for the past seven years.  Last
 year I bought myself a set of Hogan Edges after trying several sets
 of clubs.  I had been playing with cast clubs previously, and I was
 amazed at the difference in feel.  I chose the Hogans not for any
 improved playability; they simply felt the best to me.  If feel is
 what your looking for there is no question forged clubs are the best.
     If this is any indication the Hogan Edges were the hottest club
 at our country club.  Also Hogan Apex's are another popular choice.

                    Shannon McCue
     acs.magnusug.1.smccue
Newsgroups: rec.sport.golf
From: rstern@col.hp.com (Richard Stern)
Subject: Re: Rust vs Stainless
Date: Tue, 10 Nov 1992 20:17:14 GMT
Organization: HP Colorado Springs Division

> >For the purposes of stirring some debate I'm going to suggest that all new
> >golfers should be advised to purchase used Irons of the 'Tour Blade' genre
> >rather than be advised to spend alot of money on new cavity back game
> >improvements clubs. These neophyte golfers should be advised to play
> >with these clubs until they shoot a score lower than 85 on a golf course
> >with a slope rating of 113 or higher.
> 
> My concern would be that pretty soon this guy would be victim to all
> sorts of stings and shocks from the mis-hits, and this fellow will think
> golf is a hard-to-take-up game and would eventually lose interest.
> 
> Anyway, back to your approach - how about having the new golfer (95 and up
> scores) start with a set of good used game-improvement clubs ? Then when
> they progress to shooting high 80's to low 90's, move on to good used
> tour blades ?  By the time they reach this point, the golfer probably has
> a keen interest in the game and possess the determination to improve his
> score. The blades should be a big help in teaching him how to improve the
> quality of his swing. Then when they are really shooting well, they go for
> their dream set whatever it is ?

Hey, you guys are talking about me :-).

I just started golfing this spring, and I'm truly a hacker.  I usually only
play 9 holes, and my scores vary from 45 to 55.  I was using a mix and match
set from my parents garage, but a friend from work sold me his old set of
Wilson Staff Tour Blades.  He warned me that they'd be hard to hit and very
unforgiving, but at least I had a matched set of irons (and my old set
weren't cavity back anyway).

When I mishit a ball (which is fairly often), I can tell instantly.  When
I hit a nice shot, it feels great and the ball goes where I was aiming.
Luckily, I've hit enough good shots that I'm hooked on golf, so I'm not
going to get too frustrated and give it up.  Also, one day when I was
playing as a single, I got teamed up with a fellow who is a used club
dealer.  He looked at my clubs and said "those are going to be very 
hard for a beginner to hit, but once you can hit them well, you'll be able
to hit any club well".

I have yet to break 100 on 18 holes, but I'm convinced I can learn to shoot
under 90 with these clubs if I stick with it.  It's just a matter of time
(and lessons and practice ...).

Richard Stern
rstern@col.hp.com
Newsgroups: rec.sport.golf
From: tomevans@ralvmm.vnet.ibm.com (tomevans@ralvmm.vnet.ibm.com)
Subject: Re: Golf News
Date: Tue, 10 Nov 92 21:53:38 GMT
Organization: TCP/IP Development

The fact that Jose and Seve didn't play probably hurt them somewhat!!
|> > 
|> > 
|> > 	MADRID (UPI) -- Fred Couples and Davis Love III each sank birdie putts
|> > on the final hole Sunday to give the United States a 1-stroke victory
|> > over Sweden in the $1.1 World Cup of Golf.
|> > 	Couples dropped a three-foot and Love holed a tough breaking putt to
|> > give the U.S. the lead, and the Americans captured their 18th title in
|> > the event when Per-Ulrik Johansson missed a five-foot birdie chance at
|> > ---------
|> > Eugene A. Rindels        ear@sei.cmu.edu        Former SSgt  USMC "Semper Fi"
|> > Real-Time Systems Program
|> > Software Engineering Institute
|> > Carnegie Mellon University, Pittsburgh PA
|> 
|> 
|> 
|> whatever happened to spain??   It sucks They didn't end up 2nd or 1st!!! & at
|> home!!!
|> 
|> 
|> Oh well, maybe next year  (Yeah right!)
|> 
|> 
|> Enrique

-- 
Tom Evans  TCP/IP Development/Test
 Internal: TOMEVANS AT  RALVMM; 444/4097; IBMMAIL - USIB2SMQ
 External: TOMEVANS@RALVMM.VNET.IBM.COM; (919) 254-4097
From: davet@cbnewsj.cb.att.com (Dave Tutelman)
Subject: Re: Club Length
Organization: AT&T Bell Labs - Lincroft, NJ
Date: Fri, 6 Nov 1992 13:32:08 GMT

In article <engerise.720993722@guppie20> engerise@rtsg.mot.com (Mathew Engeriser) writes:
>I am thinking about making a few clubs over this winter.  I've sent for
>the catalogs (golfsmith, golfworks, etc...) and have done some reading
>on various factors of the clubmaking process (loft/lie/swingweight/etc...).
>At this point, there is one question that I have that has gone unanswered:
>how long should the various clubs be?  I assume its based on height, posture
>during swing, etc...  Can someone give me some more info?

According to Golfsmith's manual of golf club construction, you should measure
the height above the floor of your fingertips when you stand with your hands
at your sides and your fingers extended.  A nominal length for this is 27".
If your "hand height" is 27 inches, use a standard mens set of clubs as a
standard to build against.  (Most books have tables of this, but I generally
prefer to build against a "standard club" than measure with a tape.)

For every inch above 27 inches, add 1/4" to 1/2" to the club length,
and conversely for below.

I'm building a set for my son, who is very tall and has a lot of hand height.
After computing swingweights, I'm reluctant to increase the shaft by the
indicated full inch (even though he's young and strong).  So I've looked into
non-standard lie angles.  A little calculus gives me an estimate of .4" per
degree for irons, and a little more (.5" per degree ? ) for a driver.
so a 2-degree upright lie would allow a nearly standard length shaft for
Dan's irons.

Can anyone confirm or correct my statements on the effect of lie angle?

Dave
From: john@sequent.com (John Vander Borght)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.golf
Subject: Re: Slope???
Date: 7 Nov 92 01:03:57 GMT
Article-I.D.: sequent.1992Nov7.010357.10936
Organization: Sequent Computer Systems, Inc.

sl05w@pluto.ee.usu.edu (Tim McJunkin) writes:


>In article <1992Nov5.222237.4782@math.ucla.edu>, pugh@pico.math.ucla.edu (David Pugh) writes:

>I want to know if any USGA official representatives read this net.
>A good discussion of how the slope of a course is calculated would
>be very interesting.  

I don't believe there are any official representatives on the net, but I do
work as an official for the Oregon Golf Association and have talked with a
number of the folks who do the slope (and course) ratings.  Some of what I
think I've heard follows, I make no claims as to whether I heard it right or
not.

There is a team of raters who rate each hole and then the ratings are
averaged.

There are 7 (I think) basic things that a hole is rated on.  They look at
the size of landing areas, greens, the locations of hazards and what type
of hazards, the length of rough (4" rough == out of bounds) etc.  I think
there is even an intimidation factor weighed in there.

I believe they rate the items on a 1 to 10 scale.

Interestingly here in Oregon, the male rating team goes around the course
backwards while the female team goes around forwards.  Both think they do
it the "correct" way.

>I mean details.  What are your oppinions?  Does the slope really compensate
>for a bogee golfer playing a scratch player on Pebble Beach?  What is the
>slope of Pebble Beach?

The slope for Pebble is 145 from the blue tees I believe.  That would mean
that an 18 handicap would play as a 23 at Pebble.  As to whether 5 strokes
extra is enough, I would think so.  Pebble would be tough for the scratch
player, and other than the 8th hole, there aren't really any forced carries
at Pebble that can cause so much grief for the shorter hitter.  The
intimidation factor could be a big one though.

-
John Vander Borght
john@sequent.com
-- 
"Practice random kindness and senseless acts of beauty!"
John Vander Borght
john@sequent.com
From: mjb@mulka.ph.unimelb.edu.au (Michael Beeching)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.golf
Subject: The Feel of Forged (was: high end iron selection)
Date: 9 Nov 1992 06:37:41 GMT
Organization: University of Melbourne, Australia
Distribution: world
NNTP-Posting-Host: mulka.ph.unimelb.edu.au





	Very interesting discussion about forged clubs, but
could someone please tell me what the RESULTS (I know about feel)
are like, when a forged club is hit off centre, as opposed to
other types of clubs! Is the only difference in the feel, or
does the shot match the discomfort?

Michael
Newsgroups: rec.sport.golf
From: ear@sei.cmu.edu (Eugene Rindels)
Subject: Golf News
Organization: Software Engineering Institute
Date: Mon, 9 Nov 1992 12:12:28 GMT

Sorry the Steelers were on opposite the new tour event so obviously I was to
upset to turn the channel.  Funny thing, I never get that pissed off from
watching golf as I did watching the Steelers.  It's only when I play golf.


	MADRID (UPI) -- Fred Couples and Davis Love III each sank birdie putts
on the final hole Sunday to give the United States a 1-stroke victory
over Sweden in the $1.1 World Cup of Golf.
	Couples dropped a three-foot and Love holed a tough breaking putt to
give the U.S. the lead, and the Americans captured their 18th title in
the event when Per-Ulrik Johansson missed a five-foot birdie chance at
18.
	Johansson had made eagle at No. 16 to give the Swedes a 1-shot lead.
	Couples shot a final round 7-under-par 65 to equal the course record
and Love fired a 70 as the U.S. finished at 28-under-par 548 to win
$240,000.
	Sweden, which captured the title in Rome last year, earned $120,000
for second place. Wales and Australia tied for third and made $76,000
each.
	Sweden began the day trailing the U.S. by one shot and were still a
stroke back after nine holes. Anders Forsbrand and Johansson then reeled
off six birdies between them over the next five and after Couples
bogeyed No. 14, Sweden had moved ahead by two shots.
	Johansson then eagled the 16th with a beautiful second shot but
Forsbrand bogeyed while Couples birdied and the ing the U.S. within a
stroke.
	Love then hit a four-foot putt for birdie at 17 and the U.S. was
within a stroke heading into the climactic final hole.
	``We played great all day,'' Couples said. ``Even though Davis hardly
made a putt until 17. What a shot and what a putt to make.''
	Johansson was overcome by tears after missing the five-footer on the
last hole which would have thrown the event into a playoff and would
have given him a course record 64.
	``I suppose he'll take a long time to get over missing that one,''
said Forsbrand. ``But he shouldn't worry -- he played awesome golf today.
I just didn't play as well as I had all week.''


---------
Eugene A. Rindels        ear@sei.cmu.edu        Former SSgt  USMC "Semper Fi"
Real-Time Systems Program
Software Engineering Institute
Carnegie Mellon University, Pittsburgh PA
From: tope@enea.se (Tommy Petersson)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.golf
Subject: Re: Golf News
Date: 9 Nov 92 12:43:12 GMT
Organization: Enea Data AB
X-Newsreader: Tin 1.1 PL3

ear@sei.cmu.edu (Eugene Rindels) writes:
: Fred Couples shot a 6-under-par 66 to tie for the lead and help the United
: States take the opening round advantage in the $1.1 million World Cup of Golf
: at Madrid, Spain. Davis Love III posted a 68 for a combined score of
: 10-under-par 134 and a two-shot lead over runnerup Spain. 

This is out-of memory, so mistakes may (will?) occurr:
 
The World Cup is now over. USA had the lead most of the time, but Sweden
went from 5th place on day 1, to 3rd after day two and 2nd after day three.
Sweden also had the lead by two shots on the final day, when Anders
Forsbrand's second shot on the par-5 15 (or was it 16) went over the flag
and into the water. It looked like it should all swing, with the other
three on the green in two. But, Davis Love III only managed par, and with
Couples' birdie, Forbrand's bogie and Per-Ulrik's eagle the hole was
halved.

USA got one closer on 17, so the difference was only one when they
went to 18. Love put his second shot nicely on the green, Johansson and
Couples on the fringe (but Couples about double the distance). Forsbrand
put it in the bunker. After a very good bunker shot from Anders, Fred
had to come close to give USA a reasonable chance to get a play-off. He
did so, and it was Love's tricky down-hiller from right-to-left. He made
that, and suddenly Per-Ulrik's birdie putt was crucial. Not to win, but
to stay in the match. Well, he missed, and Sweden lost by one shot.
It didn't make Per-Ulrik any happier that he made a 65 on the last day,
a share of the best round.

I beleive it was five or six shots down to third place.

-- 
=============================================================================
 Tommy Petersson              tope@enea.se              Enea Data AB, Sweden
=============================================================================
Newsgroups: rec.sport.golf
Subject: Re: Slope???
From: sl05w@pluto.ee.usu.edu (Tim McJunkin)
Date: 6 Nov 92 14:38:43 MDT
Distribution: world
Organization: Utah State University


In article <1992Nov5.222237.4782@math.ucla.edu>, pugh@pico.math.ucla.edu (David Pugh) writes:
|> In article <1992Nov5.201555.5235@cs.tulane.edu> rsmith@goose.age.lsu.edu (Rhett Smith) writes:
|> >What is the slope of a course?  How or where do you find out what the slope
|> >of a cource is?  Please excuse this rookie question.
|> >Thanks,
|> >Rhett
|> >
|> >-- 
|> The slope is some measure of how difficult a course is. It is used in
|> evaluating your handicap. Your course handicap is given by
|> 
|>          handicap index * slope rating/113
|> 
|> where handicap index is your handicap in general. The higher the slope
|> rating, the more strokes you get.
|> 
|> The slope is nearly always on the scorecard.
|> 
|> David
|> 


I want to know if any USGA official representatives read this net.
A good discussion of how the slope of a course is calculated would
be very interesting.  

I mean details.  What are your oppinions?  Does the slope really compensate
for a bogee golfer playing a scratch player on Pebble Beach?  What is the
slope of Pebble Beach?

-- 
sl05w @ sol.ee.usu.edu
Tim McJunkn
Utah State University
--------------------------------
Newsgroups: rec.sport.golf
From: operator@julian.uwo.ca (Operator)
Subject: Golf in Nassau  in Bahamas		
Organization: University of Western Ontario, London
Date: Fri, 6 Nov 1992 08:22:18 GMT

Keywords: 
                Anyone have information on golf courses In Nassau?
         We'll be staying at Club Med On Paradise Island in March break.
         What can we expect to pay in golf fees?   
          
         Anyother information would be helpful.

Thanks    
        HOWARD
Newsgroups: rec.sport.golf
From: pugh@pico.math.ucla.edu (David Pugh)
Subject: Re: Merrill-Lynch ShootOut
Organization: UCLA Mathematics Department
Date: Thu, 12 Nov 92 19:00:34 GMT

In article <6950@news.duke.edu> john@illuvatar.duke.tip.edu (John Jones) writes:
>Did anyone else watch the Merrill-Lynch ShootOut last weekend ?

Yes. I did !

>Also, did anyone see the shot John Daly made ?

Yep ! As you say it was AWESOME !

>I forget which hole it was, but the players had to go over water twice.
> Everyone else took out irons for their tee shots, to lay up short of
>the second water, but not John Daly, he took out his driver and drove
>it 317 yards onto the green carrying both waters.
>
>john.@illuvatar.duke.tip.edu

I think it was the 3rd. The thing was that he didn't really need to
do that so early on in the shoot-out. If it came off it guaranteed him
not being in a sudden death (chances are not all of them would birdie)
but if it had gone in the water, chances are he'd have been out!

Gotta admire the guy's nerve !!

David
--
|-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-|
   David Pugh,  UCLA,  CA         |     Hot Dog, Jumping Frog
   pugh@math.ucla.edu             |     Alburqurque  -  Prefab Sprout
|-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-|
From: fragante@unixg.ubc.ca (Gv Fragante)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.golf
Subject: Re: The Feel of Forged (was: high end iron selection)
Date: 5 Nov 92 18:23:17 GMT
Organization: The University of British Columbia
NNTP-Posting-Host: unixg.ubc.ca

In <1992Nov5.024037.3156@netcom.com> mzimmers@netcom.com (Michael Zimmers) writes:

>Back when I was an almost-decent golfer and played McGregor Muirfields
>(man does that seem like a century ago), I could generally tell from
>the biotactile feedback where on the clubface I struck the ball, and
>from this, I knew whether the shot was thick or thin, toe'd or heel'd, 
>and a push or a slice.  Only a perfect contact would result in the
>sensation of hitting nothing at all; any imperfection was easy to "feel".

Man, maybe this is the reason why you don't like blades, those Muirfields are
really hard to hit. Meaning you have to hit the very dead center all the time
to get a good feel. I think some of today's newer forged blades are more
forgiving to some degree. I find that the Mizuno and Wilson blades do not
transmit shock on off-centers as much as some of the older blades. The ball
flies truer as well. I guess the shaping of the muscle-back has been improved
for better perimeter-weighting while maintaining the overall traditional
setup of a blade.
From: olof@tfd.chalmers.se (olof daunius)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.golf
Subject: Re: The Feel of Forged (was: high end iron selection)
Date: 6 Nov 92 08:45:48 GMT
Reply-To: olof@tfd.chalmers.se (olof daunius)

Let's say you have two clubs with an identical design of clubhead.
One being forged and the other cast. I'm willing to bet that neither
you, or a pro, have a better than 50% chance of identifying the
manufacturing method during a blind test.
It has already been shown, in an Golf Digest article some years ago,
that pro's can't _feel the difference between a ordinary two-piece
ball and a balata three-piece ball.

Olof Daunius: olof@tfd.chalmers.se
Who plays forged irons, because he likes the look of them :-)
From: x90sanson@gw.wmich.edu
Newsgroups: rec.sport.golf
Subject: Re: Golf News
Date: 10 Nov 92 15:25:12 EST
Organization: Western Michigan University

> 
> 
> 	MADRID (UPI) -- Fred Couples and Davis Love III each sank birdie putts
> on the final hole Sunday to give the United States a 1-stroke victory
> over Sweden in the $1.1 World Cup of Golf.
> 	Couples dropped a three-foot and Love holed a tough breaking putt to
> give the U.S. the lead, and the Americans captured their 18th title in
> the event when Per-Ulrik Johansson missed a five-foot birdie chance at
> ---------
> Eugene A. Rindels        ear@sei.cmu.edu        Former SSgt  USMC "Semper Fi"
> Real-Time Systems Program
> Software Engineering Institute
> Carnegie Mellon University, Pittsburgh PA



whatever happened to spain??   It sucks They didn't end up 2nd or 1st!!! & at
home!!!


Oh well, maybe next year  (Yeah right!)


Enrique
From: deanf@chips.com (Dean Frazier)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.golf
Subject: Re: Do You Really FEEL The Difference?
Summary: Ball feel is very noticeable during putting
Date: 13 Nov 92 17:19:53 GMT
Organization: Chips and Technologies, San Jose, CA

In article <1992Nov12.223103.1@sara.cc.utu.fi>, mibrunou@sara.cc.utu.fi writes:
> Balata vs Surlyn:
> Do You Really FEEL The Difference?
> 
>    I read an article in GOLF magazine June-90 which has a name
> "The Fallacy Of Feel".

Have you ever tried putting with a two-piece Surlyn, and then with a 
three-piece balata?  The difference in feel is very noticeable. The balata
ball feels much softer, and seems to stay on the putter face longer.  I
wish it were within the rules to change balls for putting... I might not
putt better, but I'd enjoy my misses more!

Dean Frazier