From: whs70@dancer.cc.bellcore.com (sohl,william h)
Subject: Re: 430mhz band under th
Organization: Bellcore, Livingston, NJ
Date: Mon, 28 Dec 92 17:11:36 GMT

In article <keHHwB1w165w@mystis.wariat.org> danp@mystis.wariat.org (Dan Pickersgill N8PKV) writes:
>rcanders@nyx.cs.du.edu (Rod Anderson) writes:
>
>> It is too bad YOU don't understand amateur radio.  It is never permitted
>> to charge for the use of equipment.  You don't own the frequency that the
>> repeater is on.  I have a right to transmit on your repeaters input
>> frequency if it is not in use.  If there is a repeater that retransmits
>> my signal so be it.  
>> 
>> Rod Anderson N0NZO   rcanders@nyx.cs.du.edu
>
>Rod, I think you better re-read the rules and the current interpretations
>of them. You might be surprised to get an unwanted letter from Gettysburg
>if you don't. I can understand how you feel. I don't particularly like
>the idea of closed repeaters myself. But, it is THEIR equipment and
>THEIR license. They can establish what ever rules that THEY want for
>THEIR system. Of course I might choose to not use their system then. But
>that is MY choice.

BUT, it is on a coordinated frequency assignment that belongs to ALL hams.
Frankly, I fail to see how any closed system can keep anyone off their
system.  It shouldn't be all that difficult to determine the appropriate
PL and or CTSCC feewquencies needed to gain access and use the repeater.
Bottom line as I see it is that one applies for and gains a repeater
assignment.  In no way should that be viewed as permission to exclude
others.  There is a finite amount of money that hams have available
and well it might be nice if we could all make donations to support
every repeater, that just ain't financially able to happen.  What a
great show we make for the newcommers (especially young hams) when we
say...sure you can use the repeater, just fork over $15 a month.

Much has been written about site rental fees, many of which seem to
me to be an outright overcharge.  There must be more choices available.
Someone said even the Forest Service wants a cut...well I haven't
heard of any such payment to federal, state, county or local
municipalities here in NJ where use of sites owned by those entities
has been involved.  Maybe if there was better selling of the use
of the repeater for emergency purposes, the governemntal and 
commercial property owners would take a more open (less financial)
interest in having a repeater on their location/site.

Perhaps it is time to have frequency coordinators look towards 
approving repeater assignments for open repeaters to make such
repeaters more generally available where they may not be today.

Here's another thought on the charges to hams to use certain repeaters,
the costs of which are presumed to be required and justified.  Why
should every user have to pay when many already support (through 
memberships in clubs, through personal support of RACES activities,
etc.) the many other aspects of ham radio and/or other existing
repeaters.  Guess if I take a trip to LA, I might as well leave
my 2m HT home for all the good it'll do me in the LA area.
Or maybe I need to pay ahead of time to "subscribe" to the use
of some of the repeaters.  Personally, this sure isn't the joint
mutual support and cooperation that I've always viewed as a
fundamental basis of the ham radio community.

>I must admit, I find it interesting how EXPENSIVE other areas of the
>country can be. I know that in this area, $2,000 a year for comercial
>sites is fairly common for good sites. And our club is having to get
>insurance for the first time (another expense). Insurance for liability
>that is, we always have insured the equipment it self. I can see why
>some of you have a problem. And I don't see how some of you manage!!!
>That old Ham Magic I guess. Thanks for the effort in keeping them on the
>air! (I know too few people say that, so I felt I had to.)

I too appreciate the efforts and expense put out by many repeater
owners, especially those that maintain open repeaters.  As to
commercial sites, have any of those been investigated to see if
the XYZ company has any hams working for it, or maybe there's
even an XYZ ham club.  Many large companies like the IBMs, 
AT&Ts, etc often have internal company sponsored/supported
ham clubs that can be doors to the right connections to obtain
free site usage.  Those large companies often strongly endorse
public safety support and a repeater can certainly
be shown as supporting such purposes.

>As a newly elected Radio Officer of my club I expect to be recieving
>LOTS of complaints myself soon. (ARGH!)

I know the feeling, I was president of a national club for owners
of Triumph Sportscars (4000 members).  Yes, there are complaints,
but the good times are what I remember over any of the minor
irritants from the handful of complainers.  Note also, most 
complainers are not willing to lend a hand in changing/fixing
what they perceive is wrong.  As an officer in your club, I'd
suggest to your club that you and the other officers should not have to
pay membership dues for the period of time you serve as an officer.
Even if your club dues is $50 a year (not likely that high), you'll
be contibuting in time and out-of-pocket expenses far more than 
that during a one year term.  Giving club officers free membership
for the time period in which they serve is at least a token 
acknowledgement of the contibution those officers provide to
the current and future success of the organization.

Standard Disclaimer- Any opinions, etc. are mine and NOT my employer's.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Bill Sohl (K2UNK) BELLCORE (Bell Communications Research, Inc.)
Morristown, NJ             email via UUCP      bcr!cc!whs70
201-829-2879 Weekdays      email via Internet  whs70@cc.bellcore.com
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.misc