From: cshi@cs.ulowell.edu (Chunde Shi)
Subject: Please do not response
Organization: University of Massachusetts at Lowell Computer Science
Date: Sat, 26 Dec 1992 23:51:42 GMT


underdog@leland.Stanford.EDU (Dwight Joe) writes:
In article <1278@xlnt.COM> david@elwood.NoSubdomain.NoDomain (David Johnson)
writes:
underdog@leland.Stanford.EDU (Dwight Joe) writes:
>>In the very likely event that China terrorizes another nation (like possibly
>>the Republic of Taiwan in the future), that Japanese prime minister
>>can, with the cooperation of the USA, successfully direct its military forces
>>to send the Chinese armies to Almighty God.
>>Of course, Japan can do certain things to postpone the day when Chinese
>>armies are sent back to their Creator.  For example, weakening China
>>politically would be one route; this can be accomplished by using Japanese
>>(and American)
>>financial and political leverage to force the secession of Manchuria as
>>an independent nation whose official language would be Japanese or English.
>>Manchuria could then be renamed to somethng like "Shinkoku", and the people
>>would be called "Shinkoku-jin".
>How would it serve US interests to weaken China?

This will lessen the likelihood of future meddling by the Chinese-cu
in other nations:  Cambodia, future Republic of Taiwan, future
Republic of Shinkoku (formerly Manchuria), etc.

>More importantly,
>should the US meddle with the internal affairs of a sovereign
>state?  I know it has in the past but I believe that behavior to
>be immoral.  I consider myself to be a fairly patriotic American
>but I would be quite ashamed if the behavior that Mr. Joe is
>advocating is generally acceptable to the American populace.
>How would Mr. Joe like every country that did not
>share American values and political views meddle in American affairs?

First, when a nation commits atrocities, it loses its right as a sovereign
nation.  Case in point:  China and Nazi Germany.

When the Chinese-cu gov't made it's decision to invade Tibet more than 40
years ago, China lost its right to be free of meddling.  The USA has
meddled in Soviet affairs because the USSR during the Cold War was meddling
in the affairs of other nations:  Czechoslovakia and Hungary, for example.

There was a habit, among Chinese-cu Chinese-ge, to support American meddling
in Soviet affairs to keep the Soviets in check but to denounce American
meddling in Chinese-cu affairs.  This blatant discrimination is based on
racist assumptions, by the Chinese-cu, that Chinese-cu Chinese-ge folks
are better simply because they are Chinese-ge.

No one--including me--denies that errors have been made by the USA.
But the USA has never committed as egregious and heinous a crime, in this
century, as the Chinese-cu agression to murder of millions of Tibetans.

>We have no right to IMPOSE our will on sovereign states.  I
>feel may persuade others to feel the way we do but not force our
>will on others.

I don't understand where Mr. Johnson gets this idea that I want America to
impose anything on China or specifically Manchuria.  I specifically said
that the USA can use its financial and political leverage to achieve it's
goals; the use of financial and political leverage is the use of persuasion.
[1] (See Appendix)

>Mr. Joe is advocating some serious crimes against
>humanity IMO:  Armed robbery on a massive scale, mass murder (I
>doubt Manchuria would be just handed over), cultural genocide,
>interfering with the internal affairs of a sovereign state,
>ruining the economy of a sovereign state by seizing a large
>part of its natural resources, etc.

I advocate no such thing.  America and Japan can do nothing for either
Taiwan or Manchuria until its populations declare indepedence.  If Manchuria
or Taiwan declares independence, then we must respect their population's
right to self-determination.

Any Chinese-cu agression to kill either Taiwanese-ge or Manchurians-ge should
be countered by Allied military power.  We offered the same sort of
help to England and the rest of Europe when Hitler was ready to seize it all.
Hiter and Nazi Germany did not recognize the right to self-determination,
and China also does not recognize thusly.  They have a lot in common.

The reasoning that leads Mr. Johnson to accuse me of adovating crimes
against humanity also leads to the conclusion that Mr. Johnson is a Chinese-cu
racist who advocates Chinese-ge ethnicity supremacy, murder, and rape.

>I have come to the conclusion that Dwight Joe is very ill.

Gee.  Mr. Johnson is more Chinese-cu than I thought.

[1] (Appendix)

Let's think about this.  Let's not be hypocrites.

If you (readers) supported the American meddling in the Soviet Union
to keep it from harrassing other nations, then you should also support
American and Japanese meddling to stop Chinese agression.  Let's not
be racists like some Chinese-cu Chinese-ge; they supported American
meddling in Soviet affairs but condemn meddling in Chinese-cu affairs.

Note that I said, "this [weakening China politically] can be accomplished
by using Japanese (and American) financial and political leverage to
force the secession of Manchuria."  This is entirely feasible proposition,
and I am not calling for military force.  That's the whole point of this
pre-emptive action; its purpose is to eliminate any need for a military
strike that would cost too many American and Japanese lives--even the loss
of 1 life is too many by the standards of human decency.

Let's take a lesson from what the USA did during the Cold War with regards
to the Soviet Union.

(1) Create Voice of Japan (VOJ) --analogous to Radio Free Europe (?).
VOJ and VOA (voice of America) would beam the following programs directly
into Manchuria:
(a) English language programming
(b) Japanese language programming
(c) Japanese-cultural programming (in Mandarian and Japanese)
(d) Western-cultural programming (in Mandarian and English)
(e) independence oriented programming to tie (a), (b), (c), and (d).
    The theme is that "You can be who you want to be.  Even if you
    are Chinese-ge, you can be Japanese-cu.  People should be free to
    identify with any culture that they desire.  People, of their own
    free will, can declare their land to be independent.  This is the
    right of self-determination that President Wilson originally proposed."

(2) Direct Japanese and American business investment directly into
Manchuria.  Concentrate on Manchuria.  Currently, the Japanese and
the Koreans are already doing this.  Raise the standard of living so
that communication devices (i.e. radios) can be easily purchased by
anyone in Manchuria; this will facilitate item #1 above.

(3) If necessary, provide tax credits to companies that are willing to set
up schools for Chinese-ge families to learn about the West and Japan. 
Teach the stuff in item #1.  Note that what they are being taught is
not propaganda; it is the truth.  This is vastly different from that
Chinese-cu propaganda on Beijing TV (ugh!).

(4) ...

Note that this plan utilizes precisely what I said:  financial and
political leverage.  The benefits to Japan and America are obvious:
a democratically free and independent Manchuria, now called "Shinkoku",
that presents yet another market for our goods.  It's a win win situation.
Note that the winner is also the Chinese-ge people in Shinkoku.

The only potential loser is Chinese-cu culture and Chinese-cu gov't.
Good riddance.

------------------------------------------------------------------+------------
Jinsei no imi wa nan desu ka.                Sister, can you      |   \|  |`
Shitte itara oshiete kuremasen ka.           spare a coin?        |    | -+-
                                                                  |   /| / \
Copyright 1992.  Disclaimer:  1 + 1 = 3                           |
------------------------------------------------------------------+------------


Newsgroups: soc.culture.china