HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: mjw@Xenon.Stanford.EDU (Michael Wolverton)
Subject: Re: Clemens wins his fourteenth!
Organization: Computer Science Department, Stanford University.
Date: Sun, 16 Aug 1992 01:22:14 GMT

In article <1992Aug15.030248.1261@cs.cornell.edu> tedward@cs.cornell.edu (Edward [Ted] Fischer) writes:
>I'm curious about how people feel on this.  Suppose Clemens finishes
>with a 20-9 record and 2.25 ERA, and Eckersley finishes with a 6-1
>record, 54 saves, and a 2.00 ERA on a division-winning team.  (These
>are both conceivable outcomes, I would say.)  Who would you vote for
>Cy Young?

I find it really difficult to compare the contributions of starters
and relievers.  I've been unhappy with the BBWAA's choices in the
years they've decided to give the award to relievers -- e.g., Lyle in
'77, Bedrosian in '87, Mark Davis in '89 -- but I really can't say for
sure that any of those guys wasn't more valuable than the best starter
his year.

I'd like to see the Cy Young awarded only to pitchers who are
primarily starters, and a new award created for the best pitcher who's
primarily a reliever.  This "Best Reliever" award would also be voted
on by the BBWAA, and would hopefully eliminate the need for the
current "Fireman of the Year" award, with its statistical rankings.

Since Fay is a good buddy of mine, I'll get this implemented right
away :-).

-Michael
-- 
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
Michael Wolverton                       "Is that clear?"
mjw@cs.stanford.edu                     "No, but it's consistent!"
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: vreddy@das.harvard.edu (Venkatesh Reddy)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
Subject: RE: 1986 World Series: Mets Fan Speaks Out
Date: 12 Aug 92 14:16:40 GMT
Organization: Aiken Computation Lab, Harvard University

In article <11AUG92.20560428@vax.clarku.edu>, hhenderson@vax.clarku.edu writes:
|> dswartz@redondo.sw.stratus.com (Dan Swartzendruber) says:
|> 
|> >> I *DO* give Mookie the credit for that.  Mookie's speed made Buckner miss the
|> >> ball.  If, say, Gary "Wheels" Carter had hit that grounder, Buckner would
|> >> have made that play easily, regardless of his knees.  Believe it.
|> >
|> >Oh please!  A easy little roller which literally rolls between his legs???
|> >It's not like he had to dive for it for Ghu's sake!  Weak ground ball I said,
|> >and weak ground ball I meant.  Are you seriously claiming it wasn't?
|> 
|> And...
|> 
|> >Are you sure you've studied the game? Mookie's chance at that moment was pure
|> >luck. And you can't just say Mookie's speed helped them. Gee.
|> >
|> >Daniel Mcvay    11dmcvay@gallua.gallaudet.edu   11dmcvay@gallux.gallaudet.edu
|> >-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
|> 
|> 
|> It's not me being "delusional": it's Gary Carter's opinion.  I realize
|> he is, or was, an Evil Arrogant Met and therefore you might not
|> want to believe him, but he *did* have a better vantage point than
|> we did.
|> 
|> He claims that Mookie's speed, *plus* the fact that the grounder was
|> weakly hit, caused Buckner to make a mental leap ahead to what
|> he would do with the ball once he fielded it:  Stanley, who was
|> rushing over to cover first, was probably not going to get there in
|> time, so Buckner was going to have to race Mookie to the bag. This
|> took Buckner's mind off the absurdly simple play he had to make,
|> and precipitated the error.    If a slowpoke like Carter or Keith
|> Hernandez were coming down the line, or if the ball had been hit
|> harder, I don't think Buckner would have had the same reaction.
|> Sure Buckner screwed up, but WHY?  As you say, it was "an easy
|> little roller... a weak ground ball" -- he didn't have to run for it.
|> It was something that he should have been able to handle easily,
|> gimp though he was.  How would *you* explain it?  Bad karma?
|> 
	How nice of you to argue the Re Sox point here. That is EXACTLY the
point. He DIDN'T have to run for it. It was soemthing he SHOULD have been able
to handle easily. But HE DIDN`T. HE SCREWED UP BIGTIME. It wasn't the hit that
won the game, it was the screw-up on an easy play that lost it.

 [...]
|> 
|> Heather
|> Jack Clark University (official name change pending)
|> HHENDERSON@vax.clarku.edu

-- Venk Reddy --

PS: I still think Mookie is a pretty damn good player to have on your ball team,
but that hit he had was Buckner's ball to miss...
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
From: hiegel@redx.washington.edu (Brian Hiegel)
Subject: Re: bye bye san fran!!! hello tampa bay
Organization: UW Information Systems
Distribution: usa
Date: Wed, 12 Aug 1992 21:11:35 GMT

In article <1992Aug12.201747.17702@sybus.com>, jon@sybus.com (Jon Pessano) writes:
> for a city that loves it baseball team so much,  
> how come they only get around 15000 fans the
> last couple of days.
> 
> face it, san fran does not deserve a team.
> we already have reservations for 23000 
> season tickets.            
> 
> also, i am sure the tampa bay baseball group
> and lurie would not have gone public and 
> called a done deal unless they were positive
> it would happen.  neither lurie or tampa bay
> wants to make an ass out of themselves.
> 
> say goodbye san fran.  
> start watching the a's
> 
> jon

Jon, you're possibly getting a baseball team that's moved twice in the last fifty some odd years.  From what I hear about your beloved dome, someday the shoe could be on the other foot.  Show some class.  You never know - a couple of bad seasons and the Giants could be in Buffalo.  My heart goes out to the baseball fans of San Francisco, you deserve your team.

-Brian
Xref: sparky rec.sport.baseball:25248 soc.culture.japan:7107 fj.rec.baseball:1575
From: yajima@nttcom.ntt.jp (YAJIMA Hiroshi)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball,soc.culture.japan,fj.rec.baseball
Subject: Japan Central League(games on Thursday August 20)
Date: 21 Aug 92 00:35:14 GMT
Distribution: rec
Organization: NTT Network Information Systems Labs. Musashino, Tokyo


Japan Central League(games on Thursday August 20)

Yakult Swallows 1, Hanshin Tigers 0
Tatsuji Nishimura tossed a four-hit shutout, leading the Central League's
front-running Yakult Swallows to a 1-0 victory over the Hanshin Tigers Thursday
night at Nishinomiya Stadium.
 With two outs and a runner at second, Jack Howell singled in the winning run
off Hanshin Tigers Starter Koji Noda in the top of the fourth inning.
 The Tigers had a scoring chance with no outs and the bases loaded in the 
second inning, but failed to produce.
 Nishimura struck out 10 and walked one to pick up his 11th win of the season.


Chunichi Dragons 5, Hiroshima Carp 2
 Takeshi Yamazaki, who hit a sayonara homer in Wednesday's game, blasted a tie-
breaking two-run round-tripper, pacing Chunichi Dragons over Hiroshima Carp at
Nagoya Stadium.
 The Dragons starter Kikuo Yamada combined with reliever Tadashi Kashiyama to
pick up his first career win.

Taiyo Whales 3, Yomiuri Giants 2
 Larry Sheets belted an RBI-double to break a 2-2 tie in the bottom of the
seventh inning as Taiyo Whales edged Yomiuri Giants at Yokohama Stadium.
 Koki Morita, who took the mound in the sixth inning and worked 2 2/3 innings,
picked up his 11th win.

Japan Central League Standing(Through Thursday's games)

                    W   L   T   Pct.   GB
Yakult Swallows    53  38   0  .582    --
Hanshin Tigers     51  45   1  .531    4.5
Yomiuri Giants     52  46   0  .530    4.5
Hiroshima Carp     47  46   0  .505    7.0
Chunichi Dragons   41  54   0  .432   14.0
Taiyo Whales       41  56   1  .423   15.0
--

    |  / __  __/ __  __/ Hiroshi Yajima, 
  / | /     /       /    NTT Network Information Syatems Laboratories,
_/  _/    _/      _/     9 - 11 Midori-Cho 3-Chome Musashino-Shi,
                         Tokyo, 180 Japan,  E-MAIL: yajima@nttcom.ntt.jp
                         TEL: +81 422-59-4256	 FAX: +81 422-59-4254

                         
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
From: rhd@chinet.chi.il.us (Rich Derr)
Subject: Re: What's a cycle?
Organization: Chinet - Public Access UNIX
Date: Wed, 19 Aug 1992 15:54:11 GMT

In article <168481F21.O1DOUG@VM1.CC.UAKRON.EDU> O1DOUG@VM1.CC.UAKRON.EDU (Doug Miller) writes:
>Whats as rare as a good knuckleball pitcher is a good knuckleball
>catcher. I can't think of anybody in the majors right not that is noted for

   Pudge does a fair job keeping Hough out of trouble.  As I don't watch much
else, I can't say how he is compared with the rest of the majors.
From: dpassage@eden.CS.Berkeley.EDU (David Paschich)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
Subject: Re: the knuckleball
Date: 18 Aug 92 20:37:24 GMT
Organization: Computer Scientists Against the Oppression of Crutons
NNTP-Posting-Host: eden.cs.berkeley.edu
In-reply-to: poutsmaj@mace.cc.purdue.edu's message of 18 Aug 92 21:16:16 GMT

In article <57167@mentor.cc.purdue.edu>, 
	poutsmaj@mace.cc.purdue.edu (unknown) writes:

   Perhaps Prof Adair from Yale (the baseball physics *GOD*) will read 
   this and enlighten us all:-)

I just checked; he doesn't have an email address, so no go.

You can get his office phone by fingering adair@directory.yale.edu,
though.

David Paschich
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
From: tedward@cs.cornell.edu (Edward [Ted] Fischer)
Subject: Re: 450' foul is just a strike : (WAS Re: CRY BABY: PIRATES CRUSHED 15-0)
Organization: Cornell Univ. CS Dept, Ithaca NY 14853
Date: Mon, 17 Aug 1992 10:43:57 GMT

In article <1992Aug17.033908.6951@cis.ohio-state.edu> atchison@shaggyman.cis.ohio-state.edu (Mark Atchison) writes:
>
>And oh, by the way, the "West-leading
>Braves" were shut out for 8.1 innings today by a guy making his 4th major
>league appearance, and lost 4-2.

Just goes to show that rookies and knuckleballers can't be trusted in
pressure situations in a pennant race.

(Though I suppose it is rather embarrassing for the Pirates to admit
that they would be in *serious* trouble if it weren't for this guy who
they didn't believe could pitch.  Was he even on the 40-man roster
last winter?)

Cheers,
-Valentine
-- 
Ob. woof: Clemens is the best pitcher ever!	tedward@cs.cornell.edu
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
From: st1ge@Rosie.UH.EDU (Edward Hui)
Subject: Re: Say it's so! Baseball in Tampa Bay!!!
Reply-To: st1ge@Rosie.UH.EDU
Organization: University of Houston
Date: Thu, 13 Aug 1992 06:22:25 GMT

In article <Tanya_Davis.esh-120892133300@tahiti.slac.stanford.edu>, Tanya_Davis.esh@qmail.slac.stanford.edu (Tanya Davis) writes:
>
>
>Sherri --
>
>I plan (and already do) go to A's games -- to root against them. 
>Especially when the Tigers or the Brewers are in town.  But I'll be at more
>of the San Jose Giants Games -- especially since it's within walking
>distance of my home -- and Oakland is not a very safe place to be in at
>night.  I agree with you about their name, however.  I'd much rather have
>them as the S.J. Bees.
>
   Yeh!  Every time I visit the Bay Area, I would go to the Coliseum to
root against the A's if they're playing at home.

>I really wish, though, that there is a National League team closer -- I
>prefer the N.L. over the A.L. .... part of it is because of the D.H.  I had
>a good friend, when I was younger, whose brother was a pitcher for the A's
>.... and he always was discouraged by the fact that he never got to hit --
>and he was a pretty good hitter.  He wasn't the greatest pitcher (but he
>wasn't too bad either) but he never got the chance to pitch for a Nat.
>League team.  But, anyway, one of the neat things about the Giants is that
>they have had a tendency to have hitting pitchers -- and I think that adds
               ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>some spice to the game. But anyway....that's all for now.
>
     I prefer the NL over the AL for the same reason.  But you said that
the Giants have good hitting pitchers.  I can't recall anyone except Don
Robinson.  For this season, Burkett and Black is hitting under .100, Wilson
had 2 hits last weekend in Cincinnati, but still under .200.  Swift is the
only one who batted over .200 (I don't know if it is the case now, but he
had been the savior!).  However, they do lead the NL in sacrifice bunts.

>- Tanya_Davis.esh@qmail.slac.stanford.edu
>  
Edward Hui
From: tmurphy@kean.ucs.mun.ca
Subject: Re: More Padre trade rumors
Organization: Memorial University. St.John's Nfld, Canada
Date: Thu, 13 Aug 1992 18:49:42 GMT

In article <36787@sdcc12.ucsd.edu>, demers@cs.ucsd.edu (David DeMers) writes:
> Apparently four or five Padres have cleared waivers,
> including Benito Santiago.  Bruce Hurst was placed
> on revocable waivers, was claimed, and waivers withdrawn,
> so he's a Padre until the off-season.
> 
> The big rumor here (two sources say the same thing!)
> is Benito will be traded to the Expos for (probably)
> two prospects.  The Expos don't want to include Rondell White,
> but a deal is near.  The other prospect is a pitcher, I
> forget the name, but a middling prospect, as I recall.
> 
> No other deals appear imminent.  I still don't understand
> why Pat Clements couldn't have been traded for a body instead
> of being released... he's been pitching great for two or
> three years now.  How many decent lefties are there, anyway?
> 
> -- 
> Dave DeMers			 ddemers@UCSD   demers@cs.ucsd.edu
> Computer Science & Engineering	C-014		demers%cs@ucsd.bitnet
> UC San Diego					...!ucsd!cs!demers
> La Jolla, CA 92093-0114	(619) 534-0688, or -8187, FAX: (619) 534-7029
From: rarnold@hubcap.clemson.edu (robert e arnold)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
Subject: Box scores Braves-Pirates 4 game series
Keywords: Braves, Pirates, scores
Date: 18 Aug 92 19:49:19 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: Clemson University, Clemson SC

I am looking for a copy of the box scores for the Braves-Pirates
4-game series.  Could someone e-mail them to me or post them.

Thanks

Bob Arnold
Clemson, SC
From: snichols@adobe.com (Sherri Nichols)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
Subject: Re: RC/27 for 2Bs
Date: 13 Aug 92 05:10:10 GMT
Organization: Adobe Systems Incorporated

In article <1984@deadmin.ucsd.edu> sefton@cs.ucsd.edu (Paul Piccirillo) writes:
>team.  However, membership on the team is as amorphous as Puerto Rico's
>situation.  Basically, it boils down to personal choice!

This is not that unusual.  Evidently, each national Olympic committee can
choose whatever rules it wants (presumably within some bounds) to determine
who can compete for that team.  For instance, swimmer Martin Zubero was
born in the US, has always lived in the US, trains and goes to school in
the US, but competed in the last Olympics for Spain, because his father was
born in Spain.  The Italian hockey team in the last Winter Olympics was
open to anyone who was of Italian descent (or whose wife was of Italian
descent) who had played (I believe) at least three years for a hockey team
in the Italian League (or maybe it was had played for an Italian league
team in the last three years, I don't remember the exact details.  I also
remember a native of New York City competing for China in figure skating,
and I'm pretty sure there were some more native Americans competing for
other countries in the Winter Olympics.

There are (or used to be) some restrictions about jumping teams; once you
had competed for one country in any international competition, you couldn't
jump to another country's team.

It's a very murky area, and one that isn't really well covered in the
media.

Sherri Nichols
snichols@adobe.com
From: clmn@ellis.uchicago.edu (Bill Coleman)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
Subject: Re: Suncoast Monstrosity
Date: 14 Aug 92 03:55:41 GMT
Reply-To: clmn@midway.uchicago.edu
Distribution: usa
Organization: University of Chicago Department of Economics

In article <1992Aug13.153900.29400@bradley.bradley.edu> dave@bradley.bradley.edu (David Vessell) writes:
>
>I think you've got your story backwards.  Yes, the Tampa Bay people put out
>feelers for teams (at the time they had no idea when expansion would take
>place) and the White Sox were a loose brick, so to speak.  It was the White
>Sox subsequent interest in Tampa that got the Suncoast Dome (and new
>Comiskey) built.

I think I got my story right.  Approval of the Dome came first and the darn
thing was already under construction while the city government was negotiating
with the White Sox.  Later they went after Seattle and now San Francisco.  I
think they made it clear they'd go after anybody.  I am deeply offended at
this type of zero-sum game bidding war strategy; it's immoral that St Peters-
burg and their dome can impose costs on other cities across the country.

>If you don't think Tampa needs a dome for baseball, you obviously aren't
>familiar with Florida weather.  While I would like to have seen a
>convertible dome like Toronto has, I haven't heard many bad things about
>the Suncoast dome.  Of course, I might not be listening in the right places
>either (hard to keep touch with Tampa while living in Peoria).  And how the 
>hell would you know how good the Suncoast dome is for baseball anyway?  No 
>one's played baseball in it, have they?  The arena footballers seem to have 
>no problem with it....

Actually, I am familiar with Florida weather, having been born and raised in
Jacksonville.  I was eighteen years old before I ever laid eyes on snow.  The
weather in Jax is worse than St Pete both in terms of heat and rain.  Please
pardon me if I stand by my original comment expressing wonderment at the need
for a dome.

Just this week Chuck Swirsky commented on WGN radio that he had recently paid
a visit to the Suncoast Dome and that it was awful, even by dome standards.


-- 
Bill Coleman
clmn@midway.uchicago.edu
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
From: gt2807a@prism.gatech.EDU (Benjamin H. Cowan)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
Subject: Re: What's a cycle?
Date: 18 Aug 92 17:29:41 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: Georgia Institute of Technology

In article <1992Aug18.155536.2561@rigel.econ.uga.edu> jvariyam@ada.stat.uga.edu (jayachandran n variyam) writes:
>Could someone pl. explain:
>
>  a) In the 15-0 Braves blow out of Pirates there was a
>     mention of L. Smith completing a cycle.  What's a cycle?

  The cycle is hitting a single, double, triple, and a home run in a single
game.  Lonnie managed to do all of that in the 15-0 blowing.

>  b) What are the features of a knuckle ball and change-up in
>     terms of the trajectory?

  A knuckler is unique in that fact that one knuckle ball pitch is unlike
the next one.  The ball is thrown with the knuckles holding onto the ball
rather than the fingertips.  This allows the ball to travel with no (or
very little) spin on it.  Due to all sorts of air coniditions, pitching
speed, etc., it is harder to predict what the ball will do because of the
lack of spin.  Some knucklers break while others have no motion at all.

  The purpose of the change-up is to get the batter to swing out in front of
the ball.  If a batter is expecting a hard curve or a fast ball, he will
tend to swing early so as to not let the ball get by him. If the pitcher
throws a change-up instead, the batter will swing before the ball gets to
the plate.

>Thanks. 

No problem.  I don't know that much about the trajectory specifics of the
pitches.  Maybe somebody else can enlighten us both.

Ben...

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Benjamin H. Cowan                       || Reply to: gt2807a@prism.gatech.edu
Georgia Tech... Atlanta, Georgia  30332 || 
================================================================================

           "I don't believe there is a man, woman, or child alive
                   that doesn't enjoy a lovely beverage."
                                                        --Dave
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
From: jhildeb1@cc.swarthmore.edu (Jeff Hildebrand)
Subject: Re: Dale Sveum
Reply-To: jhildeb1@cc.swarthmore.edu (Jeff Hildebrand)
Organization: Don's Merry Horde of Topologists
Date: Wed, 12 Aug 1992 20:11:58 GMT

<DGS4@psuvm.psu.edu> writes:
> Dale was traded for relief pitcher Keith Shepard.

	The Phillies were actually able to get someone in exchange for
Sveum?!? Cackle. Chortle. His performance was absolutely abysmal this year
and I was expect him to be released by the Phils after neither other the
expansion teams bothered to take him. Guess not. Heck I have no idea whether
Shepard is even remotely any good, but at this point the trade is either
going to be a steal for the Phils (if he is any good) or of absolutely no
importance.

	This clears up what's going on with the latest roster moves too for
the Phils. There were reports in the paper that since Andy Ashby had been
placed on the 60 day DL, he had been off the 40-man roster as well as the
25-man roster. (Could someone explain how that works?) So they had to make
room for him somewhere. Thus I think what happens with the Phillies/Orioles
trade is:

Gone:
	Sveum (off 25 man and 40 man roster)
	Scarsone (off 40 man roster)

On 21 day DL:
	Backman (off 25 man roster, still on 40 man roster)

Ashby returns going on both. (He starts on Friday night against the Mets.)
Juan Bell is added to both rosters.
Shepard goes to Scranton and is added to neither.

-Jeff
-- 
Jeff Hildebrand                                  jhildeb1@cc.swarthmore.edu
"Fly Heisenberg Airlines! We may not know where we are, but we're making
real good time." - _Synners_ by Pat Cadigan
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
From: sinhaa@maccs.dcss.mcmaster.ca (Anand Sinha)
Subject: Orioles/Jays -> Game 2
Keywords:  Ack! Phpt! 
Organization: Department of Computer Science, McMaster University
Distribution: na
Date: Wed, 12 Aug 1992 14:08:27 GMT


Seeing as I have to be fair...I guess I should report on the 2nd game of
the O's-J's series.

Jack Morris (14-4) vs. Alan Mills (7-2).  

All the scoring came in the 4th.  With no one out, Morris gave up 2 hits
and a walk to load the bases.  He then struck out the next batter, gave
up a single to Billy Ripken, to drive in one.  He then walked Parent to 
drive in another.  Bases loaded, one out, Brady (90210) Anderson up.  Morris
gets Anderson to hit an SF and then gets Devereaux out.  He escaped a 
bases loaded no-out situation only giving up 3 runs.  Thank you very much
for the SF->out. :-)

In the bottom of the 5th, Alan Mills got into trouble, with 2 out, Alomar 
singles, steals 2nd.  After a very tough AB, Carter draws a walk.  Alomar and
Carter take off on a double steal, but luckily for Mills, the ball bounces
off Parent's equipment into the Jay's dugout.  Only one base allowed.  Mills
then gets Winfield to ground out.  The play was ruled a double steal, but
why then weren't Alomar and Carter allowed to advance *another* base on the WP?
I don't understand that ruling.  That was Mills' last inning.

In the 7th, with the score still 3-0, Lee led off with a walk.  After White
was *again* ineffective, Alomar singled off Frohwirth.  One out, runners at
1st and 2nd, Carter up.  After a brief meeting on the mound with Cal, 
Frohwirth rings up Carter on 3 pitches.  He then proceeds to ring up Winfield
on 3 pitches. 

In the ninth, Olson comes in for the save.  He begins by throwing some 
*unreal* curves to Borders.  Luckily he couldn't throw any for a strike. 
Finally he throws a 3-1 fastball to Borders who scorches a single to LF.  
Again, Olson is wild to Lee, unable to throw strikes with his curveball.  Lee
ends up stroking a single up the middle.  Devo comes up, with a chance to tie
the game.  Olson hangs a curveball about belt high, but White gets under it,
and pops to Orsulak in RF.  Olson seems to get some confidence, and gets
Alomar out.  He then starts Carter with some chin music, and finally gets
Carter to chase a curveball, which he hits to Billy to end the game.

Final score O's 3 J's 0. WP Mills, LP Morris SV Olson.

Tonight: Ben McDonald vs. Jimmy Key.

Anand Sinha
Blue Jays #1 -> all the way in '92
Robbie Alomar for MVP
Juan Guzman for Cy Young