HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: ira2p@faraday.clas.Virginia.EDU (Iain Robert Asplin)
Subject: Re: Troi and Starfleet (Re: Sexism and Plunging Necklines)
Organization: University of Virginia
Date: Sat, 5 Sep 1992 17:05:32 GMT

In article <1992Sep5.043313.15337@ringer.cs.utsa.edu> mlevis@ringer.cs.utsa.edu (Mike Levis) writes:


First, I think this is a case where writer's intentions cannot be looked
at, but rather what they have done and continue to do.

Troi is a Lieutenant Commander in the Medical/Sciences Division of Starfleet,
	not a civilian.  

Evidence:  She wears 2 1/2 pips and a blue skirt uniform in "Encounter at
	Farpoint" and is referred to as Lieutenant Commander, sometimes
	Lieutenant or Commander for short, but is is always understood 
	that this is for short.

Further evidence: in "Future Imperfect," in the false future drawn from 
	Riker's mind, Troi is wearing a full blue Starfleet uniform and
	the insignia of a full commander.

More evidence:  "She carries the rank of Lieutenant Commander," says
	O'Brien in "Disaster," and then she goes on to command the
	bridge.  

If a person has gone through the Sciences/Medical division, their
Academy training is different from those in the Command or Operations
tracks, as more emphasis is placed on that officer's specialty and
less on general ship's operations, which is why Troi didn't know much
about the ship's operations in "Disaster" and why someone in the
Science or Medical division is never made Duty Officer on the Bridge.
Troi took command of the bridge after the Duty Officer had been killed
and since her overall rank was higher tahn anyone else's on the bridge
at that time.  

As for her dress, as Ship's Counselor she is given more leeway in what
she wants to wear to emphasize to her patients that whatever they tell
her is confidential (unless that person's malady is dangerous to the
ship in which case she can tell the Captain and possibly Riker as well)
and outside the normal chain of command.  I.E.  she dresses what is
for her "casual" to better open up her patients.  If she were in
uniform, their first reactions (which she should hear) would no doubt
be affected by their Starfleet discipline.

Now on another thread, people have asked why her "casual" is so 
"revealing."  The present-day answer is no doubt for ratings, but the
future answer is that nudity is not seen as anything special in
Betazoid culture, and since she is Betazoid she is certainly allowed
to dress in a fashion endemic to her culture in the same way that
Worf is allowed to wear his Klingon sash.  Also, nudity and sex are
certainly treated in this future much more maturely than in our
present-day.  That is the justification.  Question is is this right or
wrong to present this in today's culture.  Personally, I think that
is irrelevant since the show is trying to portray a future, not our
present.  The only lingering doubt about this is whether Marina Sirtis
herself objects to her dress or not.  Given the fact that she has done
some nude and/or topless scenes in other movies I would lean towards
the "not" category, but it is still open for debate.  Someone will just
have to ask her.
From: Abdul.Khaliq@brunel.ac.uk (Abdul Q M Khaliq)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.startrek.misc
Subject: Re: ST:TNG & homosexuality
Keywords: homosexual, gay, flame
Date: 15 Sep 92 12:00:38 GMT
Organization: Brunel University, West London, UK


So yet again the "Homosexuality on ST:TNG" thread has started on r.a.s.m
Every summer we get this... And as usual in approximately three posts the
thread has degenerated into "Homosexuality right or wrong..."

The tone of the original posting was so beligerant that it was *obvious*
that the guy was trying to be provocative and start a mini flame-fest...

So why did we all fall for it?

This thread very clearly does *not* belong on r.a.s.m, even though it is 
summer! Followups to some other newsgroup please!


-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Linus E.A. Twizell...   who's started the odd-irrelevant thread himself
			recently, but who's repented now.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
From: Paco Ojeda <Paco_Ojeda_Gonzalez@macmailgw.dfci.harvard.edu>
Newsgroups: rec.arts.startrek.misc
Subject: Re: ST:TNG & homosexuality
Date: 14 Sep 1992 14:51:47 GMT
Organization: Thinking Machines Corporation
Distribution: world
NNTP-Posting-Host: macdrf_43.dfci.harvard.edu
X-UserAgent: Nuntius v1.1.1d9
X-XXMessage-ID: <A6DA211D83024F9B@macdrf_43.dfci.harvard.edu>
X-XXDate: Mon, 14 Sep 92 15:59:41 GMT

In article <68117@hydra.gatech.EDU> ORMOND, gt7994a@prism.gatech.EDU
writes:
>	"The Outcast" went about as far as TNG needs to go in dealing with
>our modern problems with homosexuality.  It's always disturbed me to see
>the current writers use TNG as a facade for their 20th century liberal
>"soapboxing".  It seems quite rational that the reason we are spared    
>from seeing homosexuals within the ranks of Starfleet is that by the 
>24th century that particular illness will be cured.  The operative word 
>there is "illness", and that is, BTW, what we're dealing with.  Whether

I'll say, that's quite the statement... FYI, the American Psychiatric
Association declared in the 70's that homosexuality is not a disease.

>it's the result of one's emotional environment or some undiscovered
>physiological factor has yet to be determined.  When the cause is found,

The result of abnormal development, perhaps, but even that has not been
determined with any scientific basis.

>however, a cure will be forthcoming and homosexuality will become a thing
>of the past.

Well, most gay people I know are quite happy the way we are and are not
patiently waiting for someone to find a cure for our choices in
lifestyle. Quite honestly, I am happy to see that the scientific
community, today spends so much time finding cures for diseases such as
cancer and AIDS. And I hope that in the future they will find cures for
such important diseases. 

As for your hope that a cure for homosexuality is found, I truly thank
you for your concern, but most of us are doing just fine the way we are.

Paco

===============================================================
Paco Ojeda-Gonzalez          |                   ffoogg@aol.com
Macintosh Consultant         |ffoogg@macmailgw.dfci.harvard.edu
FOG Midi Pre-Production and  |
Graphic Services             |
Boston, MA - USA             |
===============================================================
Newsgroups: rec.arts.startrek.misc
From: smt1179@ritvax.isc.rit.edu (Tom Thatcher)
Subject: Re: Inner Light waste of film? (no spoilers)
Reply-To: smt1179@ritvax.isc.rit.edu
Organization: Rochester Institute of Technology
Distribution: usa
Date: Tue, 15 Sep 1992 04:02:56 GMT

In article <1992Sep14.012749.432@nntp.uoregon.edu>, eric_gorr@coglab_psych.uoregon.edu (Eric Gorr) writes:
>I couldn't agree more...it is my favorite episode of them all...tied with
>Yesterday's Enterprise.
>
>> "The Inner Light" is an example of an episode where there was the
>> potential to fall into that trap.  The writers sidestepped it, though,
>> and produced a story comparable to a '50s or '60s sci-fi short story.
>> It had a Bradbury touch, was eerie, and really made me feel as if
>> Piccard had undergone a significant *personal* experience (rather than
>> save the universe again).  The show managed to balance the
>> all-too-often-overplayed "human issues" with an intriguing SF story.
>
Someone, and it may have been the Great Bird of the Galaxy Himself, once
wrote that all good fiction tells stories about the human condition.  SF
merely uses a specifc milieu that is different than the Westernor the 
Gothic Romance, but used in the same way.  Any ST story (or any SF story
in general) that couldn't also be told from a Navy ship or submarine, and
therefore lacks the human element, is not worthy of being told.

If anyone wants SF for the sake of SF (flashing lights and aliens) go
watch Space:1999 or Buck Rodgers.



^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ 
^  "What must I do to convince you?"            ^  Tom Thatcher            ^
^  "Die."                                       ^  University of Rochester ^
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Newsgroups: rec.arts.startrek.misc
From: Erik.Paulson@bbs.oit.unc.edu (Erik Paulson)
Subject: ST:TNG action figures
Summary: how much? 
Organization: Extended Bulletin Board Service
Date: Sun, 6 Sep 1992 05:26:52 GMT

Hi netters... I have some st:tng action figures here, and I was wondering
how much they were worth... I have data, yar, and the rest of the crew.
I don't have q or any of the other aliens... if you know how much they are
worth, please mail me at paulsne@pandora.uwec.edu. if you want to make an
offer too, I am considering selling them... thanks 



--
   The opinions expressed are not necessarily those of the University of
     North Carolina at Chapel Hill, the Campus Office for Information
        Technology, or the Experimental Bulletin Board Service.
           internet:  bbs.oit.unc.edu or 152.2.22.80
Xref: sparky rec.arts.startrek.misc:9124 rec.arts.startrek.tech:4881
From: phurley@tamu.edu (Philip W. Hurley)
Subject: Re: Stardates--from the horse's mouth
Organization: Computer Technology Group, TAEX
Date: Tue, 15 Sep 1992 15:15:03 GMT

In article <1992Sep4.131716.3854@bnlux1.bnl.gov> schroede@bnlux1.bnl.gov (gary l. schroeder) writes:

>>Actually, the staff writers from Paramount cut off questions about
>>Stardates at the seminar.  They expressly told us not to worry about the
>>technical stuff and to spend our time on plot and dialogue.  They seemed
>>quite bored by the questions even though the audience was curious.

It's a shame they were bored. I think Roddenberry would not have become 
bored, he would have come up with an answer! One of the hallmarks of ST is 
the fact that it *is* so technologically credible. The best science fiction 
is that which is credible. That's what TNG has over TOS, the special effects 
are so much more believeable. [Although, my nine year old asked me just last 
week, "How can it make noise if there is no air in space?"] I'm not saying 
that the explanation has to be one we understand, just one that we can 
believe.

>Of course they were bored.  I would've been bored by this kind of
>extraneous nonsense as well.  Who gives a flying Denebian Slime Devil?
>When you're in a position to avail yourself of the opportunities that
>are presented by being in a Q and A forum with the show's producers, why
>would you focus on such trivialities?  Why not ask about the characters,
>the plots, new ideas?  Stardates and warp coil wrapping designs are mere
>window dressing.  They don't enhance the watchability of the show.  They
>don't contribute to the dramatic content.  They don't enhance the
>characters.

>I'm starting to think that it's meetings like this that give the
>production staff the idea that the audience actually wants to hear
>LaForge and Data go on and on and on about the hyperdynamic
>superheterodyne megaplastic field inverter inducer amplifier field
>strength modulator.  Now it all begins to make sense.  If they think the
>Trek audience demands explanations of stardate consistancy, then it's no
>wonder.

I disagree. It is true that few will enjoy great gouts of technical jargon 
but fewer still would enjoy ho hum technical effects and explanations. Such 
things don't necessarily have to be complicated, as evidenced by TOS. But it 
is, after all, *science* fiction. The audience is not asking for a discourse 
in particle physics, just a believeable explanation. I don't think its too 
much to ask, especially from the creators and manipulators of the reality.
From: tallman%ailanth.uucp@wang.com (Robert Oliver)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.startrek.misc
Subject: Re: STNG sucks!!!
Date: Thu, 10 Sep 92 23:39:58 EDT
Organization: Ailanthus Project

vnelson@ccu.umanitoba.ca (Gerald Vernon Nelson) writes:

> I'll put my vote in for TOS.
> 
> I'm waiting for the final episode of ST:TNG where the entire crew of
> the U.S.S. "DAYCARE" commits suicide because they cannot bear to fire upon
> some poorly armed aggressor.
> 
> If that doesn't happen, they will probably retreat back to Earth after
> realizing how much they are polluting the Cosmos.  Just ain't proper.
> 
> I admit that Kirk jumped the gun once in a while and did stuff before
> thinking it through...
> But this Picard guy NEVER does anything without HOLDING A MEETING first.
> 
> 
> Hey, I get kinda tired of watch them sit around a table and banter...
> 
> Picard:  Well, any other option?
> Troi  :  I sense... 
> Geordi:  Well, through my visor I can see...
> Worf  :  ATTACK, KILL THEM! 
> 
> Good think TOS is still on Late Nights..
> 
> Vern Nelson

You would prefer this...

WORF: Sir, an unidentified ship is approach--
PICARD: BLOW IT TO HELL WORF! FIRE PHASERS! ARM TORPEDOES! KILL! KILL!
Newsgroups: rec.arts.startrek.misc
From: landrews@outb.wimsey.bc.ca (Luke Andrews)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.startrek.misc
Subject: Re: Rosalind Chao (Keiko O'Brien) on Murphy Brown?
Date: 8 Sep 92 12:30:38 PDT
Organization: Wizard Online

>I forgot to watch the credits closely, but I'm pretty sure she was
>one of the other pregnant ladies in tonight's rerun of Murphy Brown's
>Lamaze(sp?) class.
>
>Sorry if everybody already knows this one.

I noticed it too.

I hadn't seen that episode until yesterday (Monday the 7th), but it did look like Rosalind Chao. And no, I didn't see the credits either.

The woman (whether or not she was) did seem shorter though.

--- Via UCI v1.02 (C-Net Amiga)

=----------------------------------------------------------------------------=
|  Luke Andrews /*/ landrews@outb.wimsey.bc.ca. <-- Ick!  Why so icky?       |
=----------------------------------------------------------------------------=
|   /* What genius designed C?  Who ever heard of "malloc" and "forkl"? */   |
=----------------------------------------------------------------------------=
Newsgroups: rec.arts.startrek.misc,alt.feminism
From: bhv@areaplg2.corp.mot.com (Bronis Vidugiris)
Subject: Re: STNG episode about homosexuality
Organization: Motorola, CCR&D, CORP, Schaumburg, IL
Date: Mon, 14 Sep 1992 17:05:52 GMT


J F Brule writes:
)I write:
)>They did do an episode on homosexuality.  It had some problems (IMO).
)>A brief plot outline - there is a planet where having a gender identity
)>is looked on as an illness...  
)
)Even more to the issue, there was an episode where Beverly falls in love 
)with a (presumed) man. It turns out the male body is just a host, and when
)it dies, it's "replaced" with a female body. The '"person" inside is still
)very much in love with Beverly, who can't get past her homophobia to
)have a relationship with hir.
)
)I thought =that= episode, in which Beverly was seen not as right in her
)refusal, but limited, was quite well done...

I liked that episode too.  Interestingly enough, I didn't interpret that
episode as being about homsexuality as much as the other one I mentioned,
before, though I can see the connection after the fact.  My overall
impression was that the episode with the parasite was more about denying the
'I love you only for your mind' point of view, and pointing out that yes,
bodies are usually important too, it's just not talked about a lot.
Newsgroups: rec.arts.startrek.misc
From: Otto Heuer #3 <ottoh3@cfsmo.honeywell.com>
Subject: FAQL diff listing (changes since last posting)
To: rec.arts.startrek.misc
Posted-Date: Tue, 15 Sep 92 00: 05:40 -0500
Organization: Honeywell Systems & Research Center
Date: Tue, 15 Sep 1992 05:05:40 GMT
Received-Date: Tue, 15 Sep 92 00: 05:06 CDT
From: judson@watnxt2.ucr.edu (Michael Judson)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.startrek.misc
Subject: Re: holosex restrictions
Date: 8 Sep 92 21:03:15 GMT

In article <1992Sep5.050437.1523@cs.rose-hulman.edu>  
mortoncp@NeXTwork.Rose-Hulman.Edu (Christopher P Morton) writes:

> Personally, I would opt for a holodeck.  I'd be able to do it without  
> running any of the numerous risks of sexual activity and besides, I wasn't  
> very creative with my first.

Imagine though, if the computer had a virus.  Would a human attract the
virus?



--
"I drank what?" -- Socrates

judson@watserv.ucr.edu
From: john@newave.newave.mn.org (John A. Weeks III)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.startrek.misc
Subject: Re: SMITHSONIAN, PERIOD!
Date: 15 Sep 92 05:29:31 GMT
Organization: Newave Communications, Ltd, Lake Wobegon, MN

In article <1992Sep14.091805.9507@bsu-ucs.uucp> 00rrchorzemp@bsu-ucs.uucp:
> with all this talk around about the Smithsonian exhibit of ST, I'd just like
> to know how much it is to get into the Smithsonian in the first place,

As far as I know, all of the Smithsonian "National" museums are free,
including the National Zoo, with the possible exception of the National
Aquarium.  The NASM is free.  If you are really interested in aircraft,
I would suggest making time to tour the Garber Facility in Silver Hills
Maryland (about 30 minutes from NASM by car) where the Smithsonian 
restores its aircraft and stores aircraft that are not on display.  You 
need to call and make reservations to tour Silver Hills.  The NASM has
a planetarium and IMAX theatre that cost extra.  I would suggest saving
your money up and plan to see all of the movies.  If you can only see
one movie, see The Blue Planet first, then The Dream Is Alive next.  To
Fly is good but short, and Flyers is pretty good.  Visit the galleries
between movies.  Get your Star Trek passes as soon as the place opens
up (9:30 AM ??), and make sure you visit the gift shop before it closes
(it closes earlier than the museum).

> and how about their food prices?? (I'm going to DC for a field trip, and
> I'm on a somewhat tight budget 8^(  and I need to know.)

Personally, I would skip eating at the NASM and go somewhere else.  If you
plan to ride on the Tourmobile, I would suggest getting off at Union Station.
There is a food court in the lower level with two dozen or so eating places.

BTW, nothing is cheap in DC, or on the entire east coast for that matter!
I have found that while things appear expensive in DC, you generally get
your money's worth.

-john-

-- 
==============================================================================
John A. Weeks III		(612) 942-6969		    john@newave.mn.org
Newave Communications, Ltd.			    ..!uunet!tcnet!newave!john
Newsgroups: rec.arts.startrek.misc
From: rbeck@mordor.dseg.ti.com (Ron Beck)
Subject: Re: Data's cat
Reply-To: rbeck@mordor.dseg.ti.com
Organization: When I get time...
Distribution: usa
Date: Mon, 14 Sep 92 16:59:08 GMT

In article <92256.130956KELSEY@SLACVM.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU>, KELSEY@SLACVM.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU (KELSEY, Michael H.) writes:
|> Followups redirected to r.a.s.misc; this isn't current, people. :-/
|> >
|> >>BTW, who's taking care of his cat while he's playing in the 19C?? :-)
|> >
|> Hmmm... I would have thought Geordi (Data's best friend, ref. "The Next
|> Phase"), but he is also "playing in the 19C".  O'Brien and Keiko?  Some
|> other friend of Data's whom we haven't met?  With 1014 people on board,
|> and few of them going on vacation :-), it can't be too hard to find a
|> kind soul to feed a cat.
|>                                              -- Mike Kelsey
|> 
|> >>--Lisa

Well, if *I* were Data & I had to go on a mission that *might* take a day or
two I'd probably program the food replicator to automatically provide Spot
with his dinner (her dinner?).  In any case I would expect that the sound of
a futuristic food replicator would be the equivalent of a modern day can
opener.  And, if my cat can jump up onto the counter for dinner, Data's cat
can get to the replicator shelf for his.

My question is "does Spot drink out of the toilet" 8-).

|> 
|> [  My opinions are not endorsed by SLAC, Caltech, or the US government  ]
|> What is your _name_?    "kelsey@slacvm.slac.stanford.edu"
|> What is your _quest_?   "To get a Ph.D. in high-energy physics"
|> When will you _finish_? "I don't know.   Waaaaaaaaahhhhhhhh..."

-- 
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ronald J. Beck           | IP rbeck@mordor.dseg.ti.com |Do now what others
Member, Group Tech Staff | MaBell (214) 952-4566       |won't so you can do
Texas Instruments        |                             |later what others
McKinney, Texas          |                             |can't
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Newsgroups: rec.arts.startrek.misc
From: eisimps@cie.uoregon.edu (Eileen Simpson)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.startrek.misc
Subject: Re: *** SPOILERS *** TNG Season 6 and DSN
Summary: Llwoxxanna Troi--can't we get rid of her?
Keywords: creation, TNG, DSN
Date: 5 Sep 92 05:23:53 GMT
Article-I.D.: nntp.1992Sep5.052353.19569
Organization: University of Oregon Campus Information Exchange

In article <1992Aug30.141705.2987@watson.ibm.com> rrogers@watson.ibm.com (Ryan Rogers) writes:
>  DSN keeps sounding better and better! ...It was also hinted at that Lwoixanna
>(sp?) Troi will be a recurring character on the show...it seems that she
>has the hots for... 

Does anyone really _care_ who this lame, over-acted character is going to
chase now?  She is the most annoying character on TNG--at least now that
Wesley's gone--and she is the catalyst for some of the all-time worst shows
that series has foisted on loyal Trekkies or Trekkers or just people who
turn on the tube to watch something fun.

At a recent script-writer's seminar put on to guide fan script submissions
that was organized and hosted by Paramount, she was described as "Auntie
Mame."  While there are some similarities, the difference is that Auntie
Mame was fun. This character is forced and contrived and not fun or funny.
If this character did not already exist, would anyone vote to invent her?
Not I.

This is not intended to attack Ryan, the original poster, in any way. I
just don't see why we are supposed to look forward to a wider forum for
that ridiculous character that adds nothing to TNG!

*sigh*

I was hoping to use DSN to get away from Lwoxanna!  Say!!  Maybe I can push
her through the worm-hole when no one is watching!!!  (Yeah, yeah. Find a
nice unstable phase...suggest she and Wes need to check something out at
the other end...)