From: tvf@cci632.cci.com (Tom Frauenhofer)
Subject: Re: Open letter to GMT
Organization: Northern Telecom, Network Applications Systems, Rochester, NY
Distribution: soc.culture.korean
Date: Thu, 20 Aug 1992 16:13:53 GMT

In article <86570@netnews.upenn.edu> dww@eniac.seas.upenn.edu (Grand master tong) writes:
>This is in response to Mr.S.H.KIm's posing:
>
>>Human beings and/or society is not that easy to subject to scientific method
>
>Right. But scientific methods are applied nevertheless to society and with
>success; that is why we have social sciences like economics and psycology,
>right?

I think the above statement is too broad.  Occasionally some application of
scientific methods in the social sciences has success, but there is too much
opinion to be sure with the same certainty of, say, a physicist or
mathematician.  What did I read once?  "If you laid all the economists in
the world end-to-end they would point in all directions."  According to
Keynesian economics what happened to the economy of the USA in the 1970's
was impossible, yet for 20-30 years or so it seemed to be an adequate model,
based on observation.  (If this sounds too American centered, I do not mean
it to be, that's the only background I have for economics examples.)

>You see, although  some people are different some times, not all people are 
>different all the time. In other words, theories proposed by these 
>social sciences predict to a satisfactory degree what the
>"AVERAGE" person will do given the conditions.

Define satisfactory.  Define average person.  Vague concepts that have no
real foundations.  Stereotypes are vague concepts with no real foundation.

>The economists predicts that when prices fall, people tend to buy more.
>Although a few qeer individuals will rather buy less (due to whatever reasons
>like status problems etc), on the whole, more people will buy more when
>the prices fall.

Unless they can't afford to.

>I really think I can apply scientific tools to society.

If you can, congratulations, write up your stuff and you'll get rich selling
it, but, hey, give me 10% for thinking of this... ( :-) )

Seriously, that seems to be the current goal of most social science research
- to find ways to quantify the problems in their domain (economics,
psychology, etc.) so that the scientific method can be applied.  The biggest
problem is juggling the sheer number of variables that need to be considered
by any theory to be practical.

>And I don't think  Mr.Rokho Kim does the same thing I do....
>
>I do not assume that I am right in the first place.
>I am willing to change my pre-conception through the process of
>re-thinking and discussion.
>
>My impression about Mr.Kim is that he is not a very scientific person
>and is deeply entrenched in his own thoughts.

You seem convinced in the concepts of "right" and "wrong" as absolutes.  I
may not be right.  This does not make you wrong, necessarily, although I
cannot personally stomache the implications of some of the things you say.

In America we have a saying - There's more than one way to skin a cat.  I
think one thing that other people have tried to get accross to you is that
the scientific method is not the only way that the world can be viewed.
Logic is not the only tool that is available.  Logic cannot even begin to
handle concepts such as intuition or common sense (vague terms, I know, but
we're stepping into a more philosopical field here).

Look at it this way:  Our life experiences help us to develop a set of
truths about the world.  We try to combine these axioms using rules that our
life experiences have again told us seem accurate.  Religion, culture,
upbringing, books we've read shape us all.  When confronted with the same
situation people may act differently.  Does that make a person more
entrenched in his own thoughts?  Not necessarily.

You are correct in assuming that you may be in error.  This skepticism is
healthy.  Just extend it to the scientific method.  Science doesn't always
work, no matter how many more times it works than other methods.

>Denny,.
--
Thomas V. Frauenhofer, WA2YYW, tvf@cci.com, ...!uunet!uupsi!cci632!tvf
Mandlebratwurst: The Meal that Eats Itself!
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