From: carol@ee.uts.edu.au (Carol Gibson)
Newsgroups: soc.men,soc.women
Subject: Re: Sexual victimization of 13 year old boy
Date: 10 Nov 92 22:11:07 GMT
Organization: University of Technology, Sydney
NNTP-Posting-Host: rossi.ee.uts.edu.au

ricko@ee.uts.edu.au (Rick Jelliffe) writes:

>I think this is a gross simplification. Men, and especially boys, just
>don't think in unique terms of men=strong, women=weak. 

Oh sure - and this is why men who get battered by their wives get laughed
at by the boys down at the police station when they go to report it...
And this is why a man who is dominated by his wife is referred to as
"hen-pecked" in a disparaging way - he is showing that he is *weak* in
this society where men are supposed to be the strong ones.

> 
>>	I believe sexual abuse of boys to be far more common than
>>is realised because of the massive stigmas attatched to it. A boy who
>>has been abused by men or boys will be seen as gay in the homophobic,
>>patriachal society. 

>I just don't agree. Or at least, certainly not by adults. Do you actually 
>know anyone who would think a boy was gay just because he'd been
>molested? 

 Yes - I do. The boy himself. It is *extrememly* common for boys to
hide the fact they have been molested by boys or men (and also men
who have been raped by men) because *they* think that other people
will think they are gay. They must have got this notion from somewhere. 

In this situation the boy was being harassed by girls and was mainly
scared about it. The issue was why did the mother and the advisor not
seem to take it seriously? I think this definitely shows their
patriarchy-induced feelings that man=strong, woman=weak (at least
sexually). Under this hypothesis, how could the boy come to much real
harm at the hands of a bunch of girls?

>I don't. And for a boy to condemn himself about
>it is just a typical gender-independent psychological reaction: just
>like married people who justify their abusive partners, or rape
>victims who wonder if they caused it. 

Of course. I never denied that. The whole issue was that boys are
often not expected to respond in this way. The whole point of my 
argument was that any child is effected by sexual abuse, their own
sex having little to do with it.

>Kids should be told about it and
>trained from early childhood. I think this is a strength of Catholic
>confession: unwarranted guilt (and obviously warranted guilt too)
>can be confronted unthreateningly. 

Well *that's* amusing - you're trying to say that Catholic teachings
reduces sexual guilt?? Sexual guilt is what Catholics are famous
for!

>Cruelty will not be eradicated by the removal of
>the "patriarchy": children especially can be cruel, being playful but
>not knowing the impact of their actions. 

The cruelty of the children was not an aspect of patriarchy. The 
attitude of the adults he consulted was.

>>	I am hoping that in time many of these prejudices and misconceptions
>>of our society can be weaned out. 

>Fat chance. It can happen innoccently and accidently. 

What? Prejudices and misconceptions happen innocently and accidently?

>We should spend
>time teaching people how to turn their backs and cope: this is especially
>true of molestation by a loved one (husband, wife, etc.). To learn to
>say eventually "so what" and rebuild your life. 

How about spending time teaching people about other's rights so this
sort of thing happens less in the first place?

>Rather than weeding 
>out feminist buzzwords like patriarchy from our society. There is no end
>of schematic villians we can invent to explain  the world's ills.

Are you telling me I invented patriarchy?????


>-ricko

	Carol
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