HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: magarret@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (CAT LOVER)
Subject: Address
Organization: The Ohio State University
Distribution: usa
Date: Mon, 21 Dec 1992 22:25:39 GMT

Hi...I need to know the address for subscribing to bi-fem-l.  I lost it, 
unfortunately...
Thanx
Marti Garrett
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: nelson@reed.edu (Nelson Minar)
Subject: Re: Private antidiscrimination policies in CO
Organization: Reed College, Portland, OR
Date: Fri, 1 Jan 1993 21:33:15 GMT
Reply-To: nelson@reed.edu (Nelson Minar)

I'm so annoyed with this thread, that I'm going to post this one
flame. Walter seems to be turning into our new Cr*m*r.

I promise I'll try to be good later. I'm having a good time in
Houston, btw - some things have been resolved, and I have found some
new ones.

In article <1i07ulINNi1s@hp-col.col.hp.com> smithw@col.hp.com (Walter Smith) writes:

I have to ask this. It might be rude, but I don't care. Walter, are
you gay? You sound like a clueless straight man.

>I've never worked at a place where I, or anyone I know, or heard of,
>got fired for being gay.  (I do know that it happens in some places,
>I dont think it is prevalent like some are making it sound)

Oh, that's neat. It only happens in a few places, so it's ok.

>I've never seen anyone beaten for being gay, although i've
>occasionally seen it in the news.  I don;t think gay-bashing is a
>majority sport, that is what I'm saying.

I don't give a shit what you are saying, because you're clearly
ignorant and cruel.

Gay bashings happen a lot. Call your local police station, get the
hate crimes statistics (if you happen to be in a place that's lucky
enough to collect statistics about hate crimes against lesbigays).
Check out Colorado, for instance - they're reporting a huge increase
in hate crimes in the wake of CO-2. (My source? That tool of the
homosexual conspiracy, Macneil-Lehrer.)

Second of all, I don't care if gay bashing is done by lots of people
or a few people. It happens, and it's evil. Worse, it's accepted by a
lot of people, including the police in many cases.

During the last two months of measure 9, two people were murdered for
being queer, one friend of mine had the brake lines cut on his car,
another friend had the brake lines cut, his front door smashed in, his
house burgalarized twice, numerous death threats, etc.

I was scared for my own safety. I started carrying a whistle. This
was not paranoia, this was not a political statement - it was basic
safety. Because I am gay, I am a target. If that's not enough for you,
well then, we don't seem to have much to talk about.
                __
nelson@reed.edu \/                        The switches set you free my friend
From: elc@cup.portal.com (Edward L Cole)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Ageism
Date: Wed, 23 Dec 92 00:11:05 PST
Organization: The Portal System (TM)
Distribution: world

I've been folowing the strings on ageism in this conference and 
and a term I came up with some ago comes to mind once again.


> The fascism of gay male aesthetic. <

How long has the gay male community generated a market for the likes
of TORSO magizine and the films of CATALINA? Even our major news
publication invests in this with the likes of ADVOCATE MEN. I think
all of this is not very different than the feminest complaint of the
objectification of the female body. Many gay men have bought into
the notion that youth is the sexual pinacle. Young men have been
idolized for at least decades in american gay male culture. 

The overwhelming presence of pedophilia (even when their over 18
the motivation for them is the same) has become institutionalized.
The abundance of erotica and pornography that involves young men
is staggering really. A large chunk of our "serious" fiction also
deals with the young male. The dance bars and a variety of other 
clubs are filled with middle-aged men looking for boys and boys 
looking for boys. 

What is all about? Perhaps its the lingering on of the days 
when most gay men where doomed to an old age of loneliness;
an attempt to stave off age with youthfull bodies. Perhaps
its the natural expression of human yearning for prodigy. Or
the byproduct of male libido that has nothing to do with gender
but seeks to dominate and the young are easy to subdue.


All of this is not say to say that young men are not attractive
or that lusting after them is evil. Rather to provide some 
perspective on the tidal wave of ephebiphilic imagery and longing.


This has not been the most coherent representation of my thought
on this subject but I think its good food for thought.
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: zwicky@csli.stanford.edu (Arnold Zwicky)
Subject: end-of-the-year reading
Followup-To: soc.motss
Keywords: books
Organization: stanford, lsa, outil, osu,...
Date: Sun, 27 Dec 1992 05:15:07 GMT

one of the things i do as i work my way across the country each
december is to read - while i stop for coffee or meals along the road,
and at the end of the day, before going to sleep.  here's what i've
been reading this year, in order...

  Jonathan Ryman's _Was_ (which i learned about here on soc.motss).  a
complex, both deeply sad and marvelously transcending, novel that
sticks in your mind for a long time.  for one thing, it gets into
the minds of children in a way that seems (to this adult trying to
recover his own childhood feelings) just so.  but then i was just
crazy about the oz books - all of them, but especially the baum
ones - as a kid.  real frontier kansas, oz, judy garland and her
mother and father and sisters in so. cal., gay men in l.a., a
difficult childhood in canada, changing irretrievable landscapes,
death from aids, the salvation of fantasy, l. frank baum as a
schoolteacher, and a lot more.  

  Martha Stewart's _The Old Silent_.  a british detective novel
combining old forms (i see a lot of margery allingham in this, my
first, stewart novel, picked up in a d.c. airport bookshop) and new
themes (rock bands, for instance).  i tended to lose patience with it
and to forget who was who, but bits of it are hilarious and/or
touching.

  Robert Plunket's _Love Junkie_.  i read the new york times reviews
of this, thought it might be entertaining.  found a nasty metallic
undertaste in the book, though parts of it are a hoot.  the problem is
that plunket seems to dislike his narrator (a rich,
three-quarters-clueless, straight woman) *and* her gay-male foils
(one of them a porn star with extraordinary presence); everybody is
untrustworthy as a narrator, and there is no joy in work, sex, 
affiliation, or anything.  superficially funny, underneath it is
to cry.

  Roger Lewin's _Complexity_.  very personalized, amazingly macho,
presentation of ideas about chaos, complexity, and artificial
life.  *hated* it at the beginning, but warmed somewhat.  

  Gerald Graff's _Beyond the Culture Wars_.  about "teaching
the conflicts" instead of pretending they don't exist.  most of
it sounds eminently sensible to me, but then i've been reading
graff and others on this topic for some time, and trying to do
something along these lines.  i wonder if the book will sell.

  Mike Davis's _City of Quartz_.  the 90s cultural history of
l.a.  required reading as i prepare to go to that city for the
linguistic society meetings.  dark musings on the modern city.
still in progress... 

  arnold (thinking about l.a.)
From: lcrew@andromeda.rutgers.edu (Louie Crew)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Attn: Writers.  Publisher lists.
Date: 22 Dec 92 22:25:38 GMT
Reply-To: <lcrew@andromeda.rutgers.edu>
Organization: Rutgers Univ., New Brunswick, N.J.



I can send address information regarding journals:

1)  33 journals that accept poetry, from MLA serials directory
2)  77 journals that accept lesbigay materials
3)  65 journals that accept religious materials (possibly open to LBG subjects)

Send me private e-mail with one of the following SUBJ lines if you wish to
request from among these:

   Subject lines for private e-mail:

   MLA periodicals list        
   Lesbigay periodicals list
   Religious periodicals list
   All three periodicals lists

If you use SISSY SOFTWARE FOR WRITERS, I can send the materials to you in the
format readable by that program.   If so, add "SISSY" to the end of your 
subject line.  Otherwise, these will come in standard ascii format as four
lines of address. 

Best wishes.

lcrew@andromeda.rutgers.edu



  ==========================================================================
  Louie Crew, Academic Foundations Department, Rutgers University, NWK 07102
  lcrew@andromeda.rutgers.edu                                   201-485-4503
                   Preferred:  P. O. Box 30, Newark, NJ 07101

-- 
  ==========================================================================
  Louie Crew, Academic Foundations Department, Rutgers University, NWK 07102
  lcrew@andromeda.rutgers.edu                                   201-485-4503
                   Preferred:  P. O. Box 30, Newark, NJ 07101
Organization: City University of New York/ University Computer Center
Date: Tuesday, 22 Dec 1992 10:58:45 EST
From: <SECBH@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject:    Marky Mark on New Years Eve

Received a poster-invitation in the mail the other day from the Saint-at-
Large.

The boy-in-Calvin-Klein's-shorts is to appear at the Tunnel in New York
City on New Year's Eve live.  The poster is a nice color shot of MM -
just above crotch level - probably taken in performance, with his
arms raised up and abs flexed and obligatory hip-little-boy-punk-backwards-
cap on.

The New Years Eve bash is a gay affair.  Begins at 10 p.m., champagne
at midnight, breakfast, ends at 4 p.m. the next day.

You can get tickets through Ticketron for $50.00.  The Saint parties are
the ultimate flesh-press.  In all likelihood MM will not have one of the
best bods on display.

Happy New Year.
Jack Carroll
From: dyer@spdcc.com (Steve Dyer)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: Prolonged erection victim
Date: 31 Dec 92 00:05:48 GMT
Article-I.D.: spdcc.1992Dec31.000548.1718
Organization: S.P. Dyer Computer Consulting, Cambridge MA

In article <1992Dec30.233552.24158@fuug.fi> an3360@anon.penet.fi writes:
>PROLONGED ERECTION VICTIM HAS DIED
>
>Erizefani Mugoya, the unfortunate man who has been going through untold
>agony following an abnormally prolonged erection of his penis for the last
>two weeks, has finally passed away after being hospitalised at Kamuli
>hospital during the course of his ordeal.

Men with priapism are at high risk of dying from blood clots formed in
the engorged organ travelling to the lungs or brain.

-- 
Steve Dyer
dyer@ursa-major.spdcc.com aka {ima,harvard,rayssd,linus,m2c}!spdcc!dyer
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: paul@psych.toronto.edu (Paul Hastings)
Subject: Re: How did you find soc.motss?
Organization: Department of Psychology, University of Toronto
Date: Mon, 21 Dec 1992 17:15:14 GMT

In article <1992Dec20.231739.8064@reed.edu>, nelson@reed.edu (Nelson Minar)
says:
>
>How did you discover soc.motss? Did you find it at the same time you
>found Usenet, or later?
>

I glanced at it a couple of years ago as I went flipping through all
sorts of (what I then considered to be) esoteric and entertaining 
newsgroups, like a.s.b (both of 'em), alt.horror, alt.pagan, and 
the like.
Then, when I realized I had met a man I wanted to date and wasn't
sure how to handle it, I had Brian (our sysadmin, Mr Fag to you!)
create the anon account for me, and just jumped on in with the 
questions and reports.
-paul

-- 
Aunt Em,                                 I think we better go get some-
     Hate you.  Hate Kansas.             thing to eat before we end up 
     Taking the dog.                     like the Donner party.
                        Dot.                             Buster Bunny.
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: henry@ADS.COM (Henry Mensch)
Subject: Re: Attention Marky Markophiles
Organization: Advanced Decision Systems; a div of Booz, Allen & Hamilton
Date: Wed, 30 Dec 1992 20:47:30 GMT

aberson@enh.nist.gov wrote: 
->In other Mark news, it seems he may be losing his gay club audience.  He
->has refused to take his shirt off in recent appearances in gay bars, and
->many have cancelled their contracts as a result.

did someone demand this at an appearance?  sounds like an unreasonable
thing for the audience to do ... remember that the artist controls
the show ....  remember that the initial views of his calvins were not
because the audience demanded it.

--
# henry mensch / booz, allen & hamilton, inc.  / <henry@ads.com>
# "fight the real enemy."  -- sinead o'connor, and many others.
From: jns@elea.umd.edu (J. N. Shaumeyer)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: et al. [was Re: Changing standards of ...]
Date: 29 Dec 92 23:28:45 GMT
Organization: Militant Homosexual Lobby, Gay Lifestyles, Inc.


Arne Adolphson (adolphso@mizar.usc.edu) wrote:
 
> jns@roissy.umd.edu (J. N. Shaumeyer) writes:
> 
> A new email address, hunh?

Well, *since* you asked, yes and no.  This is more
a machine of convenience, rather than my usual 'elea'
[about which I should write, explaining the obvious
connection with the project name Zeno, who, by the
way, happened to be queer and the lover of Parmenides--
see the dialog Parmenides by Plato], although I still
prefer that all my mail go to jns@wam.umd.edu, even
though it will all end up here, wherever here is,
eventually.

Someday I'll learn how to give short answers.

> Mea culpa, mea maxima culpa.  I did notice the "et.", but when I
> copied Matthew's phrase word for word I neglected to correct it.
> Forgive me?

But of course!  I would even if the New Year weren't
upon us.

> I don't know about anyone else, but I'm favorably disposed to 
> just about everyone this week.

I'd pretty much have to say the same thing--it's been
quite a year, quite a *good* year I'd say [and I will
have more to say], and I'm only in the mood for things
to keep getting better.  It's a bit difficult in the
midst of that to maintain my usual mean spiritedness.

> > I think I'll just check with Isaac and hope he whispers the
> > answer in my ear....
> 
> Isaac is a sensible sort, so I'm not worried that he'll
> get this wrong.

He's a *very* sensible bear, and so far he hasn't 
gotten this one wrong once.  Nevertheless, one keeps
checking, just to be sure....

--jns
From: gandalf@dworkin.ccs.northeastern.edu (Thomas M Farrell)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: Straight Friend's Opinions (was Re: Roseanne and The "Faggot" Insult)
Date: 22 Dec 92 19:31:51 GMT
	<1992Dec16.195318.19119@exu.ericsson.se>
	<1992Dec17.160107.10690@infonode.ingr.com>
Organization: College of Computer Science, Northeastern University

I find that my straight friends have a hard time understanding discrimination
until I spell it out to them in terms of examples from my life. For example, 
I can tell them that two people in Oregon were firebombed for being gay, but
they will say "oh, but that's so far away." However, if I point out that 
three people were shot only a block from where I live because the gunman
thought they were gay, my friends start to get the point.

Oddly, one of my friends (straight female) tells me that the single
thing I said to her that gave her the most understanding of a gay person's
plight was when I told her about the time that a little old lady in 
Boston Common spit at my boyfriend and I because we were holding hands.

			Tom
From: dyer@spdcc.com (Steve Dyer)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: Muffin on Parade
Date: 30 Dec 92 20:07:56 GMT
Article-I.D.: spdcc.1992Dec30.200756.20218
Organization: S.P. Dyer Computer Consulting, Cambridge MA

In article <C02xFJ.19v@agora.rain.com> bcapps@agora.rain.com (Brent Capps) writes:
>[big dick]
>I'm sitting at my terminal debating on whether to post this or
>abort.  I know I'm going to get flamed by morons who can't believe
>that anybody would consider this to be a problem.
>Fuck it.  I'm tired of remaining silent.

Wanna trade?

Um, I worry now that maybe all these e++'s I've apparently seen
might in fact be e+'s, since I'm easily impressed (semi-virgin that
I am.)  How big does it have to be before you feel ashamed of it?
I hadn't met anyone like this up until this point.  Shame is such
a personal matter; it's tied only loosely with objective reality.

P.S.: You weren't at Rooster Rock, that's for sure.

-- 
Steve Dyer
dyer@ursa-major.spdcc.com aka {ima,harvard,rayssd,linus,m2c}!spdcc!dyer
From: goldfarb@husc4.harvard.edu (Warren Goldfarb)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: correction to end-of-year reading
Date: 31 Dec 92 05:07:59 GMT
Organization: Harvard University

In article <1992Dec28.042824.21100@Csli.Stanford.EDU> zwicky@csli.stanford.edu (Arnold Zwicky) writes:
>
>arnold (who taught a - small - class this spring with a smith,
>  a jones, a fox, and a wolf in it, and was thankful that their
>  *first* names were ryan, heidi, lisa, and terra)

In the opposite direction, some years ago I taught a small course
that included a Strong, a Savage, a Bond, and a Lasher.
(Lasher, I later discovered, was one of the first -- if not *the*
first --  chair of the GL student assn. here).

Warren Goldfarb
Philosophy Department
Harvard University
From: snodgras@lclark.edu (Bil Snodgrass)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: "Anger and Regret in Aspen as Boycott Grows"
Date: 30 Dec 92 21:22:47 GMT
Article-I.D.: lclark.1992Dec30.212247.23843
Organization: Lewis & Clark College, Portland OR

In article <1992Dec30.203758.26321@osf.org> coren@speed.osf.org (Robert Coren) writes:
>In article <1992Dec30.190512.11103@PacBell.COM>, rjwill6@pbsdts.sdcrc.pacbell.com (Rod Williams) writes:
>> A front-page article in today's (12/30/92) New York Times on
>> the Colorado boycott, reprinted here without permission...
>> 
>>     ---------------------------------------------------
>[...]
>> "It's a real problem," said Harley Baldwin, the owner of the
>> Caribou Club..., "and we do
>> understand the sentiment for the boycott.  Upon reflection,
>> though, people who boycott Aspen must realize it's like
>> attacking the Jews in the Warsaw ghetto because of the Nazis."
>
>Do we have a new candidate for the defining example of "chutzpah"
>here?

Did Mr. Harley Baldwin talk about a special fund that the
city of Aspen and the citizens and business community have put
together in order to help rid Colorado of CO 2?  He must be being
shy!!!!!  I am sure that many businesses and citizens of Colorado
are so offended by CO 2 that they have donated money and time to
fight the amendment!!

Come on all of you anti-boycotters out there.  Produce figures showing
how much money Boulder, Aspen and Denver have donated to 
fight off CO 2.....Don't be shy!  Also produce figures showing
how the ski resorts are donating 5% of their net. in take to 
the fight bigotry in Colorado fund!!!!  Now don't be shy...Let 
the rest of the world hear about what these wonderful people are
doing besides blowing EMPTY APOLOGIES!!!!

Gotta love them for trying!!!

Bil Snodgrass III

P.S.  Colorado, like most states is having a ruff time financially
with funding their state government.  They also passed some sort
of spending or tax cap.  So they want money..  There main tax is 
the SALES TAX!!!!  So if you don't go to Colorado you will 
be hurting the state purese strings....  Let me see if you go for
a weekend and spend $1,000 there you will be donating $60-$70
dollars to the state tresurary....remember the state treasury owned
by the 53% of the people who don't want your kind.......

Don't help fund a bigoted state!!!

Bil Snodgrass III
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: solovay@netcom.com (Andrew Solovay)
Subject: Re: Attention Skiers Boycotting Colorado
Organization: People's Front of Judea
Date: Thu, 31 Dec 1992 01:09:26 GMT

In article <mattm-301292152023@mcmelmon.apple.com> mattm@apple.com (Matthew Melmon) writes:
>
>Over and over and over we have *seen* CONCRETE EVIDENCE that the
>*legislative* process is a fine load of CRAP, and that it can
>be abused by BOTH sides of the ideological spectrum - rabid
>fundamentalists and totalitarian queens *both*...

"Totalitarian queens"? That's "tinkerbells", honey. It loses all
the flash when you drop the alliteration.

But I'm a well-known functional alliterate...
-- 
Andrew Solovay    

"I is not now, nor has I ever been, a Human Bein'!"
                ---Pogo Possum
From: anderson@macc.wisc.edu (Jess Anderson)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: soc.motss.*
Date: 22 Dec 92 10:50:20 GMT
Organization: Madison Academic Computing Center, UW-Madison


In article <Bzn9x8.F7E@unix.amherst.edu>
twpierce@unix.amherst.edu (Tim Pierce) writes:

>In article <1992Dec22.001422.25655@macc.wisc.edu>
>anderson@macc.wisc.edu (Jess Anderson) writes:

>>The trouble with "info" is that it doesn't separate
>>anything.

>I really can't agree, both on practical grounds (if not
>"info," then what?) and the issue of clarity.

You didn't address my intuition point, I guess.

>>News is info.  How we lead our lives is info.
>>Political philosophy and activism are info.

>Which of these are 

(or is) 

>the sort of "info" that people are going to regard as
>important general knowledge?  

Any or all, depending on your point of view, which was just
my point.

>More to the point, which of these will be regarded as
>informational enough to warrant being singled out in the
>newsgroup name as "info?"

That's backwards.  The search is not for content to put in
the group named info; it's for a name for the group whose
content is of a certain sort.

>Whether or not "info" is a term of obvious meaning, it's
>unclear to me what could be the alternative.
>soc.motss.news?  Come on -- everything on Usenet is "news."
>soc.motss.announce?  Only if we're ready to post messages
>regarding MOTSS v2.0, patchlevel 8.  Bleah.
>soc.motss.important?  What?

I proposed "documents" because that's what they are.

I frankly don't think soc.motss.documents or whatever needs
to be a moderated group.  I don't think there need to be
*any* moderated groups, really.  If the unmoderated groups
don't work well, we can create a moderated group in a later
go-around.

-- 
[Jess Anderson <> Madison Academic Computing Center <> University of Wisconsin]
[Internet: anderson@macc.wisc.edu <-best, UUCP:{}!uwvax!macc.wisc.edu!anderson]
[Room 3130 <> 1210 West Dayton Street / Madison WI 53706 <> Phone 608/262-5888]
[---------> Discrimination, Bigotry, and Hate are not Family Values <---------]
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: buckmr@rpi.edu (Ron Buckmire)
Subject: OREGON: Interested in going to March On Washington? READ THIS
Date: Tue, 29 Dec 92 00:24:08 EST
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X-To: mow93@mailhost.berkeley.edu
X-Cc: soc.motss.usenet, gaynet@gallifrey.kent.edu


From a.p.h:

Oregon is determined to show up in large numbers for the 1993 March on
Washington.  We have booked blocks of rooms and are currently negotiating group
air fares.  To ensure your reservations, please contact Wayne Boulette at
223-4585 or outside Portland at 800-637-3874 with a $50 room deposit and $15
March on Washington registration fee.


   
---
RON BUCKMIRE, 11 Colvin Circle, Troy, NY 12180-3735. ***Clinton-Gore 92!***
uunet!rpi.edu!buckmr||buckmr@rpitsmts.bitnet||buckmr@rpi.edu||+1 518 276 8910
``Due to a change in Presidential Administrations, the light at the end of the
tunnel has been turned back on.''---The Management.