From: peter@icad.com (Peter Masters)
Newsgroups: rec.food.drink
Subject: Re: Cheap barrel source? (was Re: Rookie Wine Maker Needs Help)
Date: 3 Sep 92 15:21:27 GMT
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Organization: ICAD Inc., Cambridge, MA

In article <bobk.715323216@slinky.NSD.3Com.COM> bobk@ESD.3Com.COM (Bob Konigsberg) writes:

   I don't know about cheap, but if you are looking for a good quality
   barrell, call Demptos Napa Cooperage.  They are the outfit that commercial
   wineries buy their cooperage from.  I just ordered a 60 gallon (or the metric
   equivalent French Oak barrel for about $600.  That should give you an idea
   of what new cooperage runs.  If you want a used barrel, then call around
   to some local wineries and see if they are willing to sell you a used barrel.

   If you do buy a used barrel, make sure that it has has a sulfur stick burned
   in it, and then bunged tight.  Since good bungs are costly, be prepared to 
   bring your own.

I'm not a winemaker, so I don't speak from experience, but . . .

It's my understanding that use of all-new oak cooperage is the
exception rather than the rule, at least in France; it is claimed that
the flavor of oak can overwhelm the fruit in anything less than
top-flight wines.  Thus, estates like Latour and Mouton in the Medoc
will use 100% new oak, while lesser estates, making mostly lighter
wine, will use 50% or 33%, keeping each barrel for 2 or 3 uses.  The
used barrels are then passed on to even less prestigious estates,
which might use no new oak at all.  This, of course, in Bordeaux.

In Burgundy, it is not uncommon to use no new oak at all, or to use a
little new oak for the Grand Crus, but none for the Premier Crus.

Lingenfelder, a German producer getting lots of press for his (red)
pinot noir, buys only used barrels from a Bordeaux estate.

On the other hand, one cannot help but notice that the "great" estates
are also the richest, and most able to afford the new cooperage.  So
the question naturally arises: does oak only benefit great wine, or
does oak (help) make wine great?  There are a couple of instances
where the extensive use of new oak has been used to upgrade a formerly
less prestigious wine:  Chateau Haut Marbouzet, in Bordeaux, has
recently been using 100% new oak, and has been making wines of high
quality, and pulling done classed-growth prices, even though it is a
Cru Bourgeous (sp?).  Phillipe LeClerc in Burgundy is also getting
Grand Cru prices for his Premier Cru wines, also using all new oak.

And in Italy, there's Gaja, among others; the use of new oak for
Barolo and Barbaresco is not at all traditional, and is quite
controversial. 

So, to the poster who asked about the appropriateness of used barrels:
it is done, and done often.  But you get something different as a
result.

And to the original poster:  do you really want all that new oak?  If
you're only making one barrel of wine, you get 100% new or 0% new, no
compromise.  Try tasting a bottle of Haut Marbouzet against a similar
priced, same year St. Estephe, to see if that is truly what you want.

Peter Masters
peter@icad.com
Newsgroups: rec.food.drink