HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.psycgrad
Date:         Wed, 8 Apr 1992 23:35:00 EST
              <PSYCGRAD@UOTTAWA.BITNET>
From:         "David M. Fresco" <FRESCO@UNC.BITNET>
Subject: Re: Regression therapy

Nangel,
 I'm glad somebody brought this topic up.  Here's an excerpt from the
NYT Tuesday, 31 March 1992.
.
 "The psychiatrist, Dr.__________________, was charged in court papers
filed last week with trying to convince the patient that he was her
child, writing him reams of graphically detailed pornographic and some-
times sadomasochistic fantasies and then engaging in sex with him.  Her
patient __________________, committed suicide last April by injecting
himself with cocaine a year after she terminated his therapy because he
could no longer afford to pay her. . .As evidence _____________'s
lawyer introduced several thousand pages and notes alleged to be in Dr.
____________'s handwriting, including flash cards she gave Mr. ____ to
"run over these cards every day until you know them by heart and are
starting to believe them."  One card reads:  "I'm your Mom and I love
you and you love me very, very much.  Say that 10 times." Another card
reads:  "I love spending time with you.  I'm going to miss you, so many
things about you, the closeness and the need and the phenomenal sex and
being so appreciated. . . . "
.
It's pretty frightening stuff.  In our psychopathology course, we were
discussing some desensitization and flooding techniques as tx for phobia
about 2 weeks before this story broke.  The instructor in commenting on
in vivo exposure to fecal matter to desensitize a contamination fear
said that such a procedure was gross and excessive.  I asked whether
giving a patient early sexual issues about their parents was any less
offensive to which she responded unequivocably YES!  This case if the
allegations are remotely true underscores a fundamental difficulty and
unpalatability with psychodynamic personality theory.  I concede that
emotional difficulties may be based on childhood experiences.  I object
to the way psychodynamic therapists conclude what such experiences
suggest.  Observant therapists irrespective of their orientation are
well capable of picking up on physical/emotional traumas from the lives
of their patients.  However, offering insight about these events based
upon archaic constructs is a big problem.
David Fresco
FRESCO@UNC.bitnet
FRESCO@unc.oit.unc.edu
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Date:         Wed, 8 Apr 1992 11:08:48 CST
              <PSYCGRAD@UOTTAWA.BITNET>
From:         JAMES CANADAY <CANADAY@UKANVM.BITNET>
Subject:      OKANAGAN E-MAIL???

ANYBODY KNOW HOW TO GET e-mail to Okanagan college, a small college in
alberta or the neighboring province in canada that's so hard to spell?
thanks
jc
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Date:         Thu, 9 Apr 1992 15:37:32 EDT
              <PSYCGRAD@UOTTAWA.BITNET>
From:         "Matthew Simpson" <054340@UOTTAWA.BITNET>
Subject:      Re: Regression therapy
              8 Apr 1992 18:29:34 EDT from <NANGEL@FS1.PSY.EMORY.EDU>

On Wed, 8 Apr 1992 18:29:34 EDT <NANGEL@FS1.PSY.EMORY.EDU> said:
>    I may have been spacing out, but I don't remember reading
>anything here about well-publicized case about the Boston
>psychiatrist that was doing regression therapy -and possibly much
>more- on a young patient who eventually committed suicide.
>    Aside from the thoughts people may have about this case, and the
>repercussions this may have for therapy and therapists, I'd be
>interested in finding out something about this "regression therapy".
>Is it a legitimate technique? What is it about?  I can't believe
>I'm the only one puzzled by this!

Therapies are not suspect to legitimacy, psychotherapists are.
It is not the therapy that helps the client, the therapist and the client
that help the client.  To offer an analogy, if a plumber works on a
house using a monkey wrench, and the house's plumbing goes bad, the
monkey wrench is not suspect.

"Regression" is an activity that any person can do.  It is not a therapy
as a stand alone procedure unless someone makes their therapy completely
on the basis of that activity.  In regression, a person "goes back" to
a previous life scene or time.  While being in that time (hypnotically,
experientially, imaginatively, trescendentally, or however you want to
describe IT) psychotherapeutic work is done.  Then the person comes back
to the present time and continues their life for the better.

Suicide happens.  There are ethical standards by which a therapist must
adhere, especially when suicide is a threat.  As a standard (and law, if
I learned my lessons well), if a person in psychotherapy gives the therapist
sufficient cause to believe that the person would harm his or herself or
any other person, the therapist is obliged to notify the police and the
other individual (if any).  This is one of the few (if not the only)
situation in which client-therapist confidentiality must be breached.

As long as a therapist is operating within ethical and legal guidelines,
their psychotherapeutic methods are not suspect to legitimacy.

Hope this gives some info.
Have fun.

  __    ||   __
  -\\   ||  //-      O=====================================O
    \\__||_//         |Matthew Simpson (origin: St. Louis)|
     \__||_/          |Clinical Psychology; U. of Ottawa  |
        ||            |BITNET:   054340@UOTTAWA           |
        ||            |INTERNET: 054340@ACADVM1.UOTTAWA.CA|
        ||           O=====================================O
        ||            "There is no life I know like the world
      ======           of pure imagination" Willie Wonka
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Subject: (no subject given)
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.psycgrad
Date:         Mon, 6 Apr 1992 21:11:13 CST
              <PSYCGRAD@UOTTAWA.BITNET>
From:         CANADAY@UKANVM.BITNET

hello:
mr. Stotz, could you reoriginate the "blank," I lost it in my file
stuff, locally here.  thanks
jc
[canaday at ukanvm]
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Newsgroups: bit.listserv.psycgrad
Date:         Fri, 10 Apr 1992 17:19:57 CST
              <PSYCGRAD@UOTTAWA.BITNET>
From:         CANADAY@UKANVM.BITNET
Subject:      an APA E-mail list?

hi all, got a question: any other lists on the etherial-mail for apa or other p
rofessionals, besides APA "div28" and the related lists on GWUVM?  particularly
, does division 12, clinical, have a list?
thanks
jc [canaday at ukanvm]
From: v123f2ea@ubvmsd.cc.buffalo.edu (Alissa)
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.psycgrad
Subject: Newcomer to the system
Date: 6 Apr 92 21:41:00 GMT
Organization: University at Buffalo
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41

Wow, I can't believe I made it through 4.5 years of undergrad and 4 years
of grad school using e-mail and not knowing about this bulletin board thing.
Neat!

2 requests:
	1. Anybody out there in Northern Colorado?  I'm going off to my
	pre-doc internship in Fort Collins in August and would love to
	chat with you, particularly (but not solely) if you're a
	counseling or clinical type person.

	2. I'm looking for an old friend of mine who, last I heard was in
	a Cognitive-Developmental Ph.D. program at Carnegie Mellon U.
	Her name is Clare Macdonald and if anybody has seen her I'd
	grateful for some help in locating her.

Thanks!
Alissa @ SUNY Buffalo Counseling Psych Ph.D. program
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X-Envelope-to: PSYCGRAD@UOTTAWA.BITNET
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.psycgrad
Date:         Sat, 11 Apr 1992 16:40:56 -0400
              <PSYCGRAD@UOTTAWA.BITNET>
From:         "Marcie A. Wallace" <mw0o+%ANDREW.CMU.EDU@CARNEGIE.BITNET>
Subject:      Re: [Professional Societies]

Regarding APS (American Psychological Society) student dues increased to
$20 this year. They also introduced a new journal (in addition to
Psychological Science and The Observer) called Current Directions in
Psychological Science which is published bimonthly.  All three APS
journals are sent free to members (including students).

--Marcie Wallace
  Carnegie Mellon U.
  Pittsburgh, PA
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Date:         Sat, 11 Apr 1992 12:43:00 EST
              <PSYCGRAD@UOTTAWA.BITNET>
From:         "David M. Fresco" <FRESCO@UNC.BITNET>
Subject: Re: romantic relationships

Christi,
>
> already).  Caryl (Carol?) Rusbult has done some work on applying
> "investment" theories to the stability of relationships.
>
Caryl Rusbult is in the Social Program here at UNC Chapel Hill.  She
describes her research interests as "Social interdependence, close
relationships, organizational behavior"
>
I don't recall exactly what your original post was, but I remember
thinking that the work of another UNC faculty member was more relevent
than the work of Rusbult.  His name is Donald Baucom.  His interests
are in marital communications, behavioral marital therapy, sex roles.
I'm guessing that either PSYCGRAD members Anna Romero and/or Michael
Wexler could tell you more about Caryl Rusbult.  If you want more info
on Don Baucom, you can mail to me directly.
David Fresco
fresco@unc.oit.unc.edcu
fresco@unc.bitnet
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Date:         Tue, 14 Apr 1992 14:44:56 EDT
              <PSYCGRAD@UOTTAWA.BITNET>
From:         Tim Tumlin <UFTRT@NERVM.BITNET>
Subject:      Re: Legitimate therapies
              14 Apr 1992 11:25:00 -0400 from <BRITON@NORTHEASTERN.EDU>

The legitimate therapies discussion is generating a lot of energy here
on the net. I'm not sure how much of it is from true disagreement and how
much of it is from the feelings most reasonable people have when they
encounter, or suffer from, bad therapists.
  As a group of professionals who collect money for a service whose
value is not easy to discern, we have to be more careful than some
others.  We obviously must have some kind of standards of training and
conduct even if it seems elitist. And we must have some standards of care
even though it appears to be dogmatic. I think psychology has been particularly
 open to a wide variety in types of psychotherapy systems; our standards of
proof have not been especially tight.
   Mark Twain once wrote that no one ever wrote a book so bad that at least
one person didn't say it changed his life.  As for therapy, no doubt any of
them could be meaningful to someone.  I once met a woman in a party in
California who said her (male) therapist had her strip to her underwear, lie
on her back and pound on the floor.  And she said therapy helped her improve
her self esteem.
   I feel sorry for anyone looking for a therapist who doesn't know how to
get a good referral, because there are no doubt plenty of poor therapists
out there no matter what their training.  The only way we can as a profession
do our best to ensure good service to our patients is to screen and train
students as well as possible and use therapies for which there is reasonable
evidence that they are effective.
   I hope someone finds good evidence that hot tubs and red wine produce
psychotherapeutic results.
Tim - UF
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Date:         Thu, 9 Apr 1992 13:24:59 PDT
              <PSYCGRAD@UOTTAWA.BITNET>
From:         Eric Vanman <vanman@GIRTAB.USC.EDU>
Subject:      Matthew's comments
X-To:         PSYCGRAD%UOTTAWA.BITNET@VM.usc.edu
              Apr 9, 92 3:37 pm

Dear All,

In response to Matthew's comments about whether any particular therapy
should be considered legitimate or not...

Matthew's stand is that it is not the therapy that should be evaluated
for legitimacy, but rather it's the therapist who should be--as long as
the therapist follows legal and ethical guidelines, anything's legitimate.

As a strong advocate for psychology as a SCIENCE, as well as a practice,
I strongly disagree with Matthew's opinion.  Why should anyone pay mega-bucks
for therapy or give psychologists any respect, if we can't validate and/or
substantiate our methods with empirical research?  If I follow Matthew's
argument, then if I decide to develop a therapy completely based on
astrology (e.g., "You're a Gemini, so here's how to deal with your depression")
not based on any kind of "legitimate" research, as long as I stay ethical
and legal no one should question the legitimacy of my methods, right?
The problem with Matthew's plumbing analogy is that I can evaluate the
plumber based on how successfully he completes my plumbing job--then I can
tell if his plumbing method is "legitimate."  How should we best evaluate the
legitimacy (i.e, effectiveness) of regression therapy?

Frankly, my greatest worry about our field is that it is NOT advancing quickly
enough, especially in our clinical methods.  There are far too many clinical
therapies that have little support for their "legitimacy."  Outcome research
using sound empirical methods is far too rare.  Knowing what research exists
about regression therapy would be the best way to determine its legitimacy.
Unfortunately, that research doesn't provide many answers, yet people like
this Boston psychiatrist practice it probably because either (1) her training
was in this and/or (2) she thinks it's "neat" and fits in with her view of
the world.  Should this really be the way we should proceed as mental health
care providers, as long as we "follow ethical and legal guidelines?"

Eric Vanman
vanman@girtab.usc.edu
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Date:         Sat, 11 Apr 1992 12:16:54 EDT
              <PSYCGRAD@UOTTAWA.BITNET>
From:         Mickie Blain <051889@UOTTAWA.BITNET>
Subject:      Re: FYI PSYCGRAD SIZE

Is Patrick for Univerity of Toronto still out there?  If you are could
you please contact me RE:  Kim Bartholomew's e-mail address (or anyone
else who might know).  Also, do you have any reliability info on the categorica
l classification of attachment (CRQ four category version of Hazan and Shaver).
This is an urgent request--reviewers are insisting and our resubmission date is
April 23.
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Return-Path: BUTLERD@fs1.psy.emory.edu
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Date:         Tue, 14 Apr 1992 11:19:57 EDT
              <PSYCGRAD@UOTTAWA.BITNET>
From:         Dev Butler <BUTLERD@FS1.PSY.EMORY.EDU>
Subject:      to micheal wenger
X-To:         psycgrad@acadvm1.uottawa.ca

Micheal,

I have trying (unsuccessfully) to send you mail. Please contact me I
have news for you. Please also send your address.

Butlerd@fs1.psy.emory.edu


Dev in Atlanta
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Date:         Thu, 9 Apr 1992 18:41:59 EDT
              <PSYCGRAD@UOTTAWA.BITNET>
From:         NANGEL@FS1.PSY.EMORY.EDU
Subject:      Re: Regression therapy
X-To:         PSYCGRAD%UOTTAWA.BITNET@uga.cc.uga.edu

    Sorry Matthew, but I totally agree with Eric's comment regarding
the legitimacy of therapies and therapists.  A lot of empirical data
must be gathered before we can say that a therapy is legitimate.
And anecdotal results don't count, however wonderful they may be.

  This reminded me of a recent overpublicized "exorcism" on t.v.
(please, there must have been someone else, besides me, watching!!!)
in which a "possessed" woman finally underwent an exorcism after
years of failed psychotherapy.  (The therapist was shown in an
interview wearing a 12-inch-long cross, but that's another story...).
    At the end -you guessed it-, the demons were expelled and the
woman was much better, thank you.  They did acknowledge that sometime
after the exorcism she was back in the mental hospital, but her
condition was "much improve" thanks to the exorcism.
    In spite of the "fact" that this "technique" "worked", I wouldn't
call it legitimate, even if the people that conducted it were
ethical.
    Thanks for the info, though.
        Nangel @ Emory
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Date:         Tue, 14 Apr 1992 16:23:35 CDT
              <PSYCGRAD@UOTTAWA.BITNET>
From:         "Mustafa AlAbsi 270-0510 Student Psychiatry"
              <u717@REX.UOKHSC.EDU>
Subject:      Re: summer in sight!!!!
X-To:         PSYCGRAD%UOTTAWA.BITNET@uga.cc.uga.edu

Diana,
It's my feeling that this message got here by accident..yeh right!
Please say hi to moom for me.  Have fun..al'
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Date:         Mon, 13 Apr 1992 17:22:08 EDT
              <PSYCGRAD@UOTTAWA.BITNET>
From:         Tim Tumlin <UFTRT@NERVM.BITNET>
Subject:      Re: Legitimate therapies
              13 Apr 1992 13:42:23 -0400 from <NANGEL@FS1.PSY.EMORY.EDU>

Re licensing: Granted that only psychologists, clinical, school and
education for example, are bound by APA ethics and psychiatrists have
their own APA.  However, licensing is done by the state and Florida
for example requires some kind of licensing in order to receive money
in return for therapy, counseling, etc.
   Don't forget that one reason we have licensing laws is because
psychotherapy can be injurious.  If there were no risk at all, then anyone
could do it -- bartenders, beauticians, in-laws, etc. -- for whatever they
can charge.  Same would go for practicing medicine.
  Other helping professionals, such as social workers, have their own
licensing procedures.  Nevertheless, there are a lot of loopholes. I've heard
the story that one guy in L. A. made a pile of dough advertising himself as
an ontologist. I assume Tarot card readers and palmists have some way to get
around this sort of thing too. Also, a lot of professions have very loose
licensing procedures and also licensed professionals can subcontract to
unlicensed workers operating under their licenses (just as graduate students
do).
Tim - UF
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Date:         Fri, 3 Apr 1992 22:17:17 BR
              <PSYCGRAD@UOTTAWA.BITNET>
From:         Herciney Da Silva Monaco <MONACO@BRUFMS.BITNET>
Subject:      Request of informations about psychologicals tests

              Hello, dear colleague!

              I want know how to obtain informations about psychologicals
tests through any psychologist and/or any instituition of education of
PSYCHOLOGY in your country.

              Posterioritily, i will send the names of tests which i need
to the person that you proved for me.

              Heedfully,


 = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
 *  Fundacao Universidade Federal de Mato Grosso do Sul - BRASIL       *
 *  Cidade Universitaria (s/n) - Caixa Postal: 649 - Telex: (067) 2331 *
 *  Fax: (067) 387-1081 - Pabx: (067) 387-3311 - Cep: 79069            *
 *  Nucleo de Informatica - Div. Sup. Sistemas - Tel: 387-3807         *
 *                                                                     *
 *  NAD/POSTMASTER                   #     # ###### #       # ######   *
 *                                   #     # #      # #   # # #        *
 *  HERCINEY DA SILVA MONACO         #     # ####   #   #   # ######   *
 *  E-MAIL BITNET.    MONACO@BRUFMS  #     # #      #       #      #   *
 *                  POSTMAST@BRUFMS  ####### #      #       # ######   *
 *                                                                     *
 = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU
Via:      UK.AC.HULL.SEQ; 13 APR 92 15:54:44 BST
X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.3 PL11]
Original-Sender: psp.dasilvaalvo@uk.ac.hull.seq
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.psycgrad
Date:         Mon, 13 Apr 1992 11:10:51 -0400
              <PSYCGRAD@UOTTAWA.BITNET>
From:         "psp.dasilvaalvo" <psp.dasilvaalvo@SEQ.HULL.AC.UK>
Subject:      ELIZA's native tongue.

  Hi everybody,
 This is my first communication to all of you and is about ELIZA. I do have
 a Basic program which runs on an Acorn BBC computer. This is a standard
 computer used in a lot of schools here in the UK. This program not only
 display the statements on the screen but it speeks them out through the
 computer's speaker. It is a very basic but for those who have never used
 or seen ELIZA's program is much more fun to play with. Unfortunatly it only
 runs on the Acorn system. There is also various Basic books with the ELIZA
 program. If any of you wants to know more send me an E_Mail.
 Also does anybody out there is working in imagery and human motor activity?
 I will be very interested in hearing from any of you.
 Bye all.
 --
 -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
   Jorge daS. Alvoeiro,                Tel:(0482) 465778
   Dept. of Psychology,                Fax:(0482) 465599
   Hull University,                    E_Mail: psp.dasilvaalvo@uk.ac.hull.seq
   Cottingham Road,
   Hull HU6 7RX,
   England
 -------------------------------------------------------------------------------



--
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
  Jorge daS. Alvoeiro,                Tel:(0482) 465778
  Dept. of Psychology,                Fax:(0482) 465599
  Hull University,                    E_Mail: psp.dasilvaalvo@uk.ac.hull.seq
  Cottingham Road,
  Hull HU6 7RX,
  England
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
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Date:         Wed, 15 Apr 1992 08:55:20 EDT
              <PSYCGRAD@UOTTAWA.BITNET>
From:         Mary <FMDENT@ECUVM1.BITNET>
Subject:      Re: legitimate therapies

On Wed, 15 Apr 1992 00:05:56 CDT newberry said:
>On 4-13-92 someone wrote, "Given the limitations of the probabalistic
>nature of our knowledge, we will not be able to replace intuition and
>judgement with numbers, ever."
>      This is a claim often heard in psychology, and it has been empirically
>proven to be false, at least in the area of clinical judgement (including
>diagnosis). There is no reason to expect this claim to be true when it comes to
> deciding what therapy to use with a client. In considering legitimate therapie
>s this should be considered. In my opinion, therapy needs a lot more science
>and a lot less intuition.
>
>                        Don in Dakota
>  Ps. For a reference try: Research on Human Judgement and its Application,
> by D. Faust in Professional Psychology: Research and Practice vol.17, #5,
> pg. 420-430.

In my original posting I was referring to research done to compare therapy A
versus therapy B or control or whatever, to see which therapy 'works better'
however that is operationalized.  Here's the point:  if you have a therapy
which fails miserably for 95% of all humans, that doesn't make one wit of
of difference if your client is in the 5% of people for whom it did in fact
work well. How will you be able to predict where your current client falls
on the distribution of responsiveness to therapy A?  It is unlikely that any
given person will respond to this therapy. You can use the results of such
research to figure the likelihood of response to a given therapy, but this
is going to be a general guideline at best. Stats are designed to use samples
to describe what is going on in populations, not individuals. Therefore, the
role of intuition, which is a process of weighing probabilities in itself,
remains necessary.


from MARY DENT at East Carolina University     fmdent at ecuvm1
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