HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: curt@oce.orst.edu (Curt Vandetta)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.football.pro
Subject: Re: Niners Beat Aints, Refs
Date: 29 Sep 92 18:15:42 GMT
Article-I.D.: news.BvCqq9.47I
Organization: Oregon State University, College of Oceanography


In article <z5_p5vj.mzimmers@netcom.com> mzimmers@netcom.com (Michael Zimmers) writes:
>In article <1992Sep28.191955.15422@cs.tulane.edu> buckley@cs.tulane.edu (James Buckley) writes:
>
>>Remember, the 49ers have to play the Saints one more time this year.
>>So I wouldn't get all "high and mighty" just yet ...
>
>Especially if the officiating is as choice for that game as it was
>for last night's.  Even the best teams can't consistently come up
>through *that*.

 I won't argue that the Rice Fumble was a bad call.  It should have been ruled
 down by contact with the spot of the ball on the 1/2 yard line, since that
 is where the ball was when his knees were down.  But other than that one
 call the Refs did all right.

 If I was a 49'er fan (and that's a big IF) I would be more concerned about
 the offensive line play than the Refs.  The Saints were putting a lot of
 presure on Young from the outside (OLB's rushing to be more specific) a
 less mobile QB than Young, like Montana for example, would have been sacked
 quite a few times.  If your looking for a reason why they didn't perform
 at various points of the game, that is why.  Young was constantly having
 to step up and scrabble up the middle.  It also appeared to me, but the
 camera view you get from TV makes it hard to know for sure, that Rice was
 doing a very poor job of coming back to Young when Young was in trouble.
 Perhaps he was starting to block when Young was scrambling around, but it
 didn't appear that they were working together very well.  

 It looks like the Saints might have found a weakness in the San Francisco
 offense.  Presure Young hard from the outside, force him to scrabble up
 the middle and try to contain him with an inside LB playing the middle
 zone.  It may not stop the SF offense, but it sure slowed them down.  If
 the Saints had any kind of offense at all, they could have won that game.

 The Saints remind me a lot of Philadelphia last year.  A Great D, but no
 O, only the Eagles had an excuse!

 Curt
From: caeser@csd4.csd.uwm.edu (Robert Michael Trotter)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.football.pro
Subject: MNF Phil 31 Dal 7
Date: 6 Oct 1992 04:01:43 GMT
Organization: Computing Services Division, University of Wisconsin - Milwaukee
NNTP-Posting-Host: 129.89.7.4


	Philly handled Dallas very well, and made Aikman look pretty
	bad. At least I wont have to listen to the umpteen million
	Cowboy fans "woofing", but now we have to listen to the Eagles
	fans.... :)

	really, I though the game wasnt all it was hyped to be.

	Mark
	GO VIKINGS!
Newsgroups: rec.sport.football.pro
From: rfedkiw@crenshaw.math.ucla.edu (Ronald Fedkiw)
Subject: Miami is all hype....
Organization: UCLA Mathematics Department
Distribution: usa
Date: Mon, 5 Oct 92 20:33:20 GMT

Remember last year when K.C. beat Buffalo, there was a lot of hype.....
Buffalo came back and beat K.C. .....Buffalo in the Super Bowl.

Remember two years back when Miami beat Buffalo, there was a lot of hype..
Buffalo came back and beat Miami ...Buffalo in the Super Bowl.

A Miami loss this week would put the Doll fans in second..... 
assuming this Buffalo team beats L.A.
You better just worry about making the playoffs, especially since 
you sucked in the first few games of the season.

--
Ron Fedkiw (rfedkiw@joshua.math.ucla.edu)

A plan is made by someone who is sitting and thinking ...
while others are doing.
From: bokenko@CS.ColoState.EDU (jeffrey scot bokenko)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.football.pro
Subject: Re: How to read standings
Date: 28 Sep 92 18:26:03 GMT
Organization: Colorado State University, Computer Science Department

In article <0elnP=y00WB98cvFp=@andrew.cmu.edu> cs6t+@andrew.cmu.edu (Calvin D. Swartzentruber) writes:
>When the standings for a team are printed up, usually after the
>percentage comes two columns, a PF and a PA.  Could someone please tell
>me what these two abbreviations stand for, and what the numbers below
>them mean?  Thanx.
>
>GO EAGLES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
>
>Calvin

PF = points for (i.e. points that team had made so far)
PA = points against (i.e. points that oppenents made against them)

I believe that is what PF and PA stand for.
--Jeff

-- 
*****************************************************************************
Jeff Bokenko                       CONFUCIOUS SAY:  "He who fishes in another
bokenko@beethoven.cs.colostate.edu           man's well, often catches crab."
*****************************************************************************
Newsgroups: rec.sport.football.pro
From: xtifr@netcom.com (Chris Waters)
Subject: Re: AFC East
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services  (408 241-9760 guest) 
Date: Mon, 5 Oct 1992 23:35:39 GMT

In <BvnLoo.2C6@acsu.buffalo.edu> v130pwbq@ubvmsb.cc.buffalo.edu (ANTI-CHRIST) writes:

>Here is something pleasant to look at for once. Take a long look Bills fans
>cause this is how its going to look all year.

>AFC East             W     L     PF      PA       vs. AFC        vs. Division

>MIAMI                4     0    109      60        3-0              1-0
>BUFFALO              4     1    163      82        2-1              2-1
>INDIANAPOLIS         2     2     48      75        1-2              0-1
>N.Y. JETS            1     4     81     117        1-1              1-0
>NEW ENGLAND          0     4     34      95        0-3              0-2

Well, no.  The Jets will pass Indy before the year is out, IMO.

(Oh, you weren't talking about positions 3-5...so sorry, carry on.)  :-)
-- 
Chris Waters    | the insane don't | NOBODY for President!
xtifr@netcom.COM| need disclaimers | Because Nobody's perfect!!
Newsgroups: rec.sport.football.pro
From: cooperr@a.cs.okstate.edu (COOPER ROBERT BRYA)
Subject: Re: Ed Marinaro question
Organization: Oklahoma State University, Computer Science, Stillwater
Date: Sat, 3 Oct 92 21:42:26 GMT

In article <1992Oct02.202609.6798@eng.umd.edu> edquist@eng.umd.edu (Karl T. Edquist) writes:
>
>In article <+bnz1_h@rpi.edu>, root@june.cmp.rpi.edu () writes:
>>In article <wytten.718053670@centi> wytten@centi.cs.umn.edu (Dale Wyttenbach) writes:
>>>In <c-nzw7f@rpi.edu> root@june.cmp.rpi.edu () writes:
>>>>Marinaro played his College football at Cornell
>>>
>>>New question: Who won the Heisman the year Ed was runner-up?  (I once
>>>knew, but I forgot)
>>>
>>>Dale
>>
>>Wild Guess.... Pat Sullivan???
>>
>>-------------------------------
>>
>>
>>J.R. Ordon
>
>How about Jim Plunkett?  I think the year was '71.
>
>K. Edquist

Well, I don't know who Marinaro was runner-up to, but it wasn't
Jim Plunkett.  Plunkett's runner-up was Joe Theisman.

Here is the list of the Heisman winners from that time

 yr        name        college pos         played for        
----------------------------------  ------------------------- 
1974 Archie Griffin   Ohio St  HB   Cin                     
1973 John Cappelletti Penn St  HB   Rams
1972 Johnny Rodgers   Nebraska FL   CFL, SD
1971 Pat Sullivan     Auburn   QB   Atl, Wash, SF
1970 Jim Plunkett     Stanford QB   Pats, SF, Rai          
1969 Steve Owens      Okla     HB   Det
1968 O.J. Simpson     USC      HB   Buf, SF               
1967 Gary Beban       UCLA     QB   Wash


Bryan Cooper
cooperr@a.cs.okstate.edu

ps. peace
Newsgroups: rec.sport.football.pro
From: a750288@pan.mc.ti.com (John E. Brennan)
Subject: Re: Patriots News 9/22
Organization: Texas Instruments Materials and Controls Group
Date: Fri, 2 Oct 1992 12:31:28 GMT

In article <DMERCER.92Oct1141527@ap1pyr.oracle.com> dmercer@oracle.com (David Mercer) writes:

I think the Pats should play no-huddle for the entire hour.
>They did well with it last year.  Have they used it at all
>this year?

>---David B. Mercer


The Pats have used the no huddle offense at times, and seem to have their
best successes when they do.  Beats me why they don't use it more often.

Take Care,
 
John 



----------------------------------------------------------------------------
                            
John Brennan 

a750288@pan.mc.ti.com 
Newsgroups: rec.sport.football.pro
From: klbartle@david.wheaton.edu (Kevin Bartlett)
Subject: Re: Can MIAMI  go undefeated again? was: Can Bills go 16-0? should
Summary: EAGLES CRUSH POKEYBOYS
Be: Can the Eagles go undefeated?
Organization: Wheaton College, IL
Date: Tue, 6 Oct 1992 17:04:59 GMT

In article <ahn-041092195524@branford-college-node.net.yale.edu> ahn@pop.cis.yale.edu (Eugene R. Ahn) writes:
>In article <1992Oct4.213259.5571@PacBell.COM>, jpglori@srv.PacBell.COM
>(John P. Gloria) wrote:
>> 
>> In article <1992Oct4.210347.28947@cass.ma02.bull.com> silverio@cass.ma02.bull.com (Brian Silverio) writes:
>> >After watching Miami take Buffalo apart, the question is:
>> >
>> >Can anyone beat Miami?
>
>> I don't think there is any team that can go undefeated.
>> anymore. The Dolphins were certainly better today and
>> if the Dolphins keeps their heads on straight, then
>> they have a chance of winning more games.
>> 
>
>Now there's a daring prediction! :-) 
>Well, as far as "I don't think there is any team that can go undefeated":
>
>Any team can go 16-0, as long as they're still undefeated!
>4-0! And two games left against New England! Woo Woo! :-)
>
>And it would be something, wouldn't it, considering the schedule for the
>Dolphins. Well, if they play this well against the better teams, then send
>em over!!!
>
>--
>Eugene "Mos Eisley" Ahn     ahn@suncis.cis.yale.edu
>"What did you think of that reply?"
>"No sir. I don't like it."

I think the question should now be:
After watching the Eagles take out the Cowboys, 
Can anyone beat the Eagles!?

Besides, I'll take NFC over AFC anyday.
And only two teams are left without a defeat.
All in all, I'm glad it's the 'Fins rather than the 'Chips
From: chf0@harvey.gte.com (Curtis Fennell)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.football.pro
Subject: Re: Dolphans (Was: Truth About Ring...)
Date: 28 Sep 92 13:15:51 GMT
Organization: GTE Laboratories

In article <1992Sep23.124923.1@ulkyvx.louisville.edu> cl129424@ulkyvx.louisville.edu writes:
>In article <1992Sep23.122133.1@ulkyvx.louisville.edu>, aephel01@ulkyvx.louisville.edu writes:
>> 
>>     I have to disagree with that.  It isn't football, but I'd say that
>> UCLA's 9 championships in 10 or 11 years ion basketball (you said
>> "ANY sport" 
>> was pretty amazing.  They may have lost a g team in all that time has
>> had a perfect season is simply writting on the wall.
>Whenever the subject comes up about the best team ever just ask yourself
>one question: Did they lose any games on the way to the championship?
>The 1972 Dolphins are the ONLY team to do EVERYTHING they were asked to
>do. (In professional sports)

The perfect season is an amazing feat - one not duplicated by any
other professional sports team.  But it is probably a reflection of
football - it would be much harder for a baseball team playing over
100 games a year to win all of their games. So let's forget the perfect
season for a moment, and look at winning percentages of professional
sports teams.

Since the merger of the AFL and NFL took place in 1970, the team with
the winningest record in PROFESSIONAL SPORTS is ...... The Miami
Dolphins.  Better than the Boston Celtics - Better than the Edmonton
Oilers or the Lakers or the Braves or any other professional sports
team.

'Nuff Said.

Curt

Curt "I always pick the Dolphins - even against Buffalo!"  Fennell
			DOLFAN in New England.             
'72 Dolphins - The perfect team in the perfect season - 17-0
Miami Dolphins - 1970-1992 - Best Team in Professional Sports


-- 
Curt Fennell			* chf0@gte.com
Unix System Administrator	* (617) 466-2142
GTE Labs, 40 Sylvan Road	* "Get down off that cross!
Waltham, MA, 02254		*  Somebody needs the wood"
Newsgroups: rec.sport.football.pro
From: davewood@bruno.cs.colorado.edu (David Rex Wood)
Subject: Re: T.E. or not T.E. - That is the question
Organization: University of Colorado, Boulder
Date: Tue, 6 Oct 1992 14:18:21 GMT

In article <BvpD0B.Ko@encore.com> dtodd@wizard.encore.com (Donald Todd) writes:
>
>	In one of my fantasy football leagues, someone is trying to
>draft Shannon Sharpe (Denver Broncos) as a T.E.  Does anyone know what
>his official playing position is?  I've seen him listed as a T.E. in
>some guides, and as a W.R. in others.
>
>Any info will be greatly appreciated!
>
>-Don Todd
>

TE.

-davewood
-- 
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
David Rex Wood -- davewood@cs.colorado.edu -- University of Colorado at Boulder
  BRONCOS!!        R.S.F.P. Internet Football Pool Organizer        BRONCOS!!
                            Owner, Boulder Houlders
From: keithg@hpdmd48.boi.hp.com (Keith Glasson)
Date: Fri, 25 Sep 1992 06:11:53 GMT
Subject: Re: Marinovich professional coaching at what age?
Organization: work
Newsgroups: rec.sport.football.pro

>/ hpdmd48:rec.sport.football.pro / l0v4993@zeus.tamu.edu (Leo Valdez) /  6:43 pm  Sep 18, 1992 /
>Yeah I heard Marinovich was coached by professional quaterback coaches at
>a very young age.  Does anybody know how old he was!!!!   I never seen a
>more accurate passer in all my life when I went to the Raiders training camp.
>
>
>
>----------


	I'm not sure at what age he started, but it was his father
	who started coaching him.

	-Keith

+++++++++++++++++

	
Newsgroups: rec.sport.football.pro
From: lej@pdn.paradyne.com (Leo James)
Subject: Re: Cardinal TE's
Keywords: Cardinal TE
Organization: AT&T Paradyne, Largo, Florida
Date: Wed, 30 Sep 1992 23:05:53 GMT

In article <1992Sep30.101049@IASTATE.EDU> s1dlr@IASTATE.EDU (Daniel L Rose) writes:
>
> 
>Who are  the  Phoenix Cardinals playing at TE?
>
>THX,   dlr

When they were here week 1 I thought that Jay Novacek was still their guy.
--
+---------------------+-----------------------+-----------------------+
|Leopold E. James     | "A heart, a soul, AND | AT&T Paradyne         |
|ph: (813) 530-8425   |  a mind are terrible  | P.O. Box 2826, LG-132,|
|lej@pdn.paradyne.com |  things to waste."    | Largo, FL 34649 (USA) |
Newsgroups: rec.sport.football.pro
From: jpglori@srv.PacBell.COM (John P. Gloria)
Subject: Re: NINERS WIN!!! YESSS!
Organization: Pacific * Bell
Date: Fri, 2 Oct 1992 22:52:04 GMT

In article <1992Oct02.051107.9109@bnr.ca> emilio@crchh444.BNR.CA (Emilio Rivera) writes:
>In article <1992Oct2.033340.17802@PacBell.COM>, jpglori@srv.PacBell.COM
>(John P. Gloria) writes:
>|>-- 
>|>  ---------  John Gloria - jpglori@sysengr.pacbell.com	--------	
>|>  "Fact are facts and will not disappear on account of 
>|>   your likes."  -   Jawaharlal Nehru
>      
>    ( Much Junk Deleted)                                                
>
>   Hey Gloria get off your soapbox before you FALL on your Inflated
>   geek head.    O.K.  some facts on my part.  I think the niners have
>   a good team.   Hopefully, someday the Cowboys (feel free to inject
>   whatever substitute name for them) will advance to the niners level
>   of consistent wining.   Maybe, the teams will meet in the playoffs in
>   the near future.   Another fact is that you appear to be way off base
>   on what I do for a living.   I happen to be C. Haley's agent.  He told
>   me to get him the hell out of S.F.  so he would not have to here about
>   some faggot puta jota name Juan Gloria who is still the number one  
>   Forty-Whiner Fan.   Juan face  the facts man/woman
>   you whine too much...............................
>
>   P.S. Last  response on my part to this  stupid subject.
>          No mas eh Geek...................Chill    ;) ;)
>
In case you have forgotten, oh yes, you have a maggot size brain to match
your penis. Remember, you are the one that started this flame by your imbecile referral
to 49er fans as whiners, etc. Listen, if you can't swing with the big boys, then
stay in the house playing with your Barbie Dolls.  I am quite willing and
confident to discuss football issues and equally able to throw insults at you
without much effort. It you want to discuss football, fine. 

So what facts do you have to offer? I didn't read one fact in your latest babble,
besides stating your a Cowboys fan. Big Deal! The days of Roger Staubach are over.
Granted, the Cowboys have made a remarkable turn around the last three years. They still
have to prove they can play consistently with the higher echelon of the NFL, which
includes the Niners, Bills, Redskins, and Eagles. Even if they do beat one of these
teams, they still have to finish the year. Who knows, they might go to SB. One fact
that apparently escapes your distorted hate for Niner fans is, the NINERs have
consistently been winners for the past ten years and are going into the 90's as
contenders. The Cowboys have been pretenders the last 10 years. 

-- 
  ---------  John Gloria - jpglori@sysengr.pacbell.com	--------	
  "Fact are facts and will not disappear on account of 
   your likes."  -   Jawaharlal Nehru
Newsgroups: rec.sport.football.pro
From: pc0837@sarah.albany.edu (COHEN PAUL L)
Subject: Re: Fair Weather Fans (Dallas,etc)
Organization: State University of New York at Albany
Distribution: york
Date: Fri, 2 Oct 92 20:44:59 GMT

In article <1aib7eINNish@uwm.edu> caeser@csd4.csd.uwm.edu (Robert Michael Trotter) writes:
>
>	Does anyone else notice the increased amount of Cowboys fans on the
>	net making their great predictions. Where were these fans during
>	the 1-15 season? Do fans who stuck with the teams through the bad
>	years like those band wagon jumpers? When I first starting reading 
>	this group, there were tons of posts about how great the Giants 
>	were and the Bears. Now , 90% of the traffic is Dallas/Philly.
>	Granted they are good teams, but we dont need to have these threads
>	going back and forth, my team is greater than yours. Where were
>	these fans 2 years ago? I have been a fan of Minnesota for about 
>	12 years now, and I suffered through the 6-10 season, and enjoyed
>	the 11-5, and 2 10-6 seasons. I hate bandjumpers.
>
>	Caeser

I couldn't agree with you more. For the record, I have always been, and will
always be, a Jets fan. From the glory years of Joe Namath, through the
ugly years of Richard Todd, dealing with the disappointing years of Ken O., 
and now into the future with Browning Nagle, I stand with the Jets.
(Watch Caeser, I bet those "fair weather friends" get a kick out of this)

                                         -Paul
From: un032221@wvnvms.wvnet.edu
Newsgroups: rec.sport.football.pro
Subject: Re: REDSKINS HAW!@!@--"it's Ryp's fault"
Date: 5 Oct 92 21:20:14 GMT
Distribution: na
Organization: West Virginia Network for Educational Telecomputing

In article <1992Oct5.125527.10810@murdoch.acc.Virginia.EDU>, skins-hater@virginia.edu (A Redskins Hater Trapped in Va) writes:
> 
> dammit, i was in a convenience store and on the radio i heard the foreskins
> were up 14-0, so i bailed out on this game. DOH!@!@ I cant believe i missed
> such a classic redskins choke!@ good-bye super bowl glory. hello 7-9.
> 
> haw!@ HAW!@@!@ HAW!@!@!@!@

	As much as I hate to disappoint, 2-2 is hardly a horrid beginning
when you consider how out of sync the Redskins are.  After awhile even a moron
like Rypien must get better than the 3 pick day he had vs Pheonix.  Please
realize Mr. Skins-hater that the poor (by Washington's standards) start is just
that, a poor start.  My memory is not perfect, but I recall the Skins being
either just as bad, or maybe 1-3 in 1989, when they finished just shy of a
playoff berth at 10-6.  Certainly much of the poor start's cause must
fall on the shoulders of sitution stuff.  Darrell Green, the best CB in the
business is gone, probably for the season.  Jim Lachey, again possibly the best
at his position has had difficulties since his holdout.  And especially Mark
Rypien (whom I have never respected at the helm) who has played some of his
career worst football.  You called it a "classic redskins choke".  I prefer to
call it a "classic Mark Rypien screw-up".  Consider that if Rypien does not
throw any INTs the Cards would not only have 14 fewer points, but the Redskins
would certainly have at least 3 more since Rypien threw a pick in scoring
territory.  This What if situation is being favorable to the Cards by assuming
that it would only have been a FG.  That turns it from 27-24 Redskins lose, to 
27-13 Redskins win easily, and agin this is being generous to the Cards.  Sure
the defense made it's share of mistakes late in the game (Mann's face mask, and
Mayhew's dual pass interference penalties), but the bulk of the blame must fall
on the shoulders of an out of sync Rypien.  

	Redskins fan that thinks Rypien is over-rated.
Newsgroups: rec.sport.football.pro
From: billms@eecs.umich.edu (William Mangione-Smith)
Subject: Re: Question for Lion's experts
Organization: University of Michigan
Date: Wed, 30 Sep 1992 21:08:18 GMT

In article <92274.1109433ZASIB3@CMUVM.CSV.CMICH.EDU> <3ZASIB3@CMUVM.CSV.CMICH.EDU> writes:

   They have used Mel Gray on offense in some circumstances in past years.
   It is the feeling of the coaches, however, is that he is the best at
   what he does (runbacks) and they don't want him having to split his
   concentration; or get banged around on play after play.  He is so
   beautiful and effective with runbacks, I tend to agree with the coaches.

This just is not true.  They don't use him because he is a stiff as a
receiver.  And they don't use him as a back because he is a stiff as a back.
I'm a big Mel fan, but he is a return man and nothing more.  

   They have a good receiving corps and Barry.  Why take the chance of Gray
   getting hurt when he is such an asset when it comes to field position.

Two other comments: two years ago the receivers stunk and Mel still sat.
That should tell you something.  A solid recievers is worth a bunch more than
a solid return man.  Is Atlanta going to sit Sanders down on Defense because
he is such a great return man?  

Bill

--
-------------------------------
	Bill Mangione-Smith
	billms@eecs.umich.edu
From: boell@hpcc01.corp.hp.com (Donald P Boell)
Date: Mon, 28 Sep 1992 16:44:54 GMT
Subject: Re: Who is Greg Skrepanek playing for, and how is he doing?
Organization: the HP Corporate notes server
Newsgroups: rec.sport.football.pro

He is seeing limited playing time with the Raiders.

Newsgroups: rec.sport.football.pro
From: jpglori@srv.PacBell.COM (John P. Gloria)
Subject: Re: Best Performance
Organization: Pacific * Bell
Date: Tue, 6 Oct 1992 04:20:04 GMT

In article <1992Oct5.232138.5314@seq.uncwil.edu> rsmith@seq.uncwil.edu (Ross Smith) writes:
>jpglori@srv.PacBell.COM (John P. Gloria) writes:
>
>>I will bet my orothodontist against your's. :-) Montana holds practically
>>ALL SB records. Why nick and pick over a couple? If you insist
>>though, I will try and obtain an official NFL, SB record stats for
>>you and post them for the world to see.
>>  ---------  John Gloria - jpglori@sysengr.pacbell.com	--------	
>
>Montanas SB records:
>
>Career:                                      Single Game:
>----------------------------------           -----------------------------
>most completions (83)                        consecutive completions (13)
>most attempts (122)                          most yards passing (357)
>completion percentage (68.0)                 TD passes (5)
>most yards passing (1142)                    most atts w/o INT (36)
>TD passes (11)
>INT % (0.00) (tied with Plunkett)
>
>Thats after a quick perusal of the NFL Fact and Record Book.
>-- 
>______________________________________________________________________________
>|rsmith@seq.uncwil.edu           Ross Smith              smith@oscar.udel.edu|
>|    "I really hate that dog...." - Dr. Chase Matthews, Pet Semetary 2       |
>------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Couldn't have said better myself. The ball is on your court
Adriene. :-) Wanna call time out?
-- 
  ---------  John Gloria - jpglori@sysengr.pacbell.com	--------	
  Let us be thankful for the fools; but for them the rest
  of us could not succeed.  -   Mark Twain