From: g1nickut@cdf.toronto.edu (Nick Zahariadis)
Subject: Re: OS/2 Boot Manager and NT incompatibility; Read on! 
Organization: University of Toronto Computing Disciplines Facility
Date: Wed, 16 Dec 1992 05:55:37 GMT

In article <1992Dec14.192226.16205@microsoft.com> jvert@microsoft.com (John Vert) writes:
>In article <1992Dec14.034749.11780@cdf.toronto.edu> g1nickut@cdf.toronto.edu (Nick Zahariadis) writes:
>>In article <1992Dec13.225515.9365@ichips.intel.com> jburns@pdxgp1 (John Justin Burns Jr.) writes:
>>>In article <sal8.246.724201910@po.cwru.edu> sal8@po.cwru.edu (Steve Luzynski) writes:
>>>>
>>>>The NT beta has code included that makes it absolutely refuse to install if 
>>>>it detects the OS/2 boot manager on your hard drive. Pretty rude of MS if 
>>>>you ask me (OS/2 does no such check for NT).
[stuff deleted]
>>>I have just been given an article which describes how to install NT using
>>>the OS/2 boot manager (Douglas Hamilton, Windows Magazine, OCT. 92).  I
[stuff deleted]
>>>OK, so it will not install with the boot manager.  Another post on this 
>>>news group mentioned that there is a bit in the boot record that may be toggled
>>>so that the boot manager would not be visible during NT installation.
>>>Would this work? 
>> Yes, I've mentioned it and it is possible. There are ways of bypassing
>> checks like this that install programs make (and shouldn't really make, if
>> the reason is other than incompatibility).
>> Also note, that sneaky little checks like that don't serve any purpose
>> other than marketing strategies (or lack thereof). 
>
>[ giant anti-MS polemic deleted ]

 Oh no, that really wasn't anything like anti-MS polemic at all. I call
 it constructive criticism at worst. And if you're not willing to take it,
 you don't have to bother with it. So much for attending to your customer's
 needs. What I stated about MS was a result of years of experience and
 frustration from little tricks like the one mentioned above.

 If you want polemic, I can give it to you anyday. But not on this
 newsgroup, no. This is a peaceful newsgroup; no flames here. But read on,
 I still have questions about the topic!    

>The reason that the NT Beta will not install with Boot Manager is NOT
>because Microsoft hates IBM, or because Microsoft wants to make your life
>miserable, or any other shadowy Microsoft conspiracy.  The reason is
>that Boot Manager plays games with the partition table.  Notably, the
>partition that NTLDR gets started from is no longer marked ACTIVE.  
>Instead, the Boot Manager partition is marked ACTIVE.  Whether or not
>you think IBM has broken the "rules" of the MBR and partition table,
>the fact is that without a lot of amazing gymnastics (like Doug Hamilton
>has outlined elsewhere) you cannot get Boot Manager and NTLDR to agree 
>on what partition should be marked ACTIVE.

 OK, for one thing, you're not stating why it is the case that NTLDR will
 not work with the Boot Manager. Just the facts. Why is it that NTLDR has
 to be marked ACTIVE on the partition table? Technical details please.

>Since installation of NT over Boot Manager will likely result in either
>an unbootable NT or an unbootable OS/2, Windows NT Setup does its best
>to prevent this.  You may consider this "sneaky" or "underhanded" if
>you like.  But the truth is that this configuration is not supported
>for a REASON that has nothing to do with marketing.
>     jvert@microsoft.com  (speaking, of course, for myself)

 While other posts in this newsgroup, indicate that a workaround makes that
 possible, you're telling otherwise. So what is the real reason? I'm still
 waiting for the technical documentation of NT that my dealer has promised.
 If I had all that by now, I would probably have a better idea, of what
 you're trying to say.

 If you want to argue about a point, bring all your cards on the table
 and don't just bypass the real question. Why?

 All flames will go to /dev/null. I don't have time for such. If this
 discussion circles around the NT vapourware for longer (I can see faces
 turning red, yellow, blue!), move it to '*.advocacy'.

 Nick.
 
-- 
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
"Always put off until tomorrow what you are sure 
 to mess up beyond repair today."
Nick Zahariadis    e-mail: g1nickut@cdf.utoronto.ca
Newsgroups: comp.os.os2.misc