HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: pnm@goanna.cs.rmit.oz.au (Paul Big-Ears Menon)
Newsgroups: comp.lang.smalltalk
Subject: Re: ParcPlace v.2.5 on Powerbook
Date: 13 Apr 92 23:39:59 GMT
Organization: Comp Sci, RMIT, Melbourne, Australia

In article <SDL.92Apr13125519@rigel.linus.mitre.org>, sdl@linus.mitre.org (Steven D. Litvintchouk) writes:
...
> Are there any good tutorials, textbooks, etc., that teach the new 4.0
> model?  It took years before good tutorials (as magazine articles),
> and textbooks, appeared that taught MVC well, and now we need the same
> sort of thing for 4.0.

 Apart from the ParcPlace Tutorial and User's Guide (which don't really go 
deeply into the nouveau MVC with wrappers, etc .. they're more teasers),
there's a most informative article on just this topic in March/April's issue
of The Smalltalk Report.  It's co-written by the architect of Release 4's MVC.
The article not only explains what and `how-to-use', but why it was done.
Given the constraints of the journal (space, time ...), this is still not the 
defintive document on MVC.  I'd suggest it would be premature to produce one
anyway, as the authors allude to things which may change RSN (polling for input,
for example).

I too would be interested in gleaning more information from literature about 
the new MVC, if anyone has some leads, please yell.  Given the committment
to the pre-release 4 MVC, I appreciate how painful the conversion is.  I'd
say that most articles will be teasers anyway, the real enlightenment will
come from use.

    Paul Menon,
    Dept of Computer Science,
    Royal Melbourne Institute of Technology, 
    124 Latrobe Street,
    Melbourne 3001, 
    Victoria, Australia.

email:	pnm@goanna.cs.rmit.oz.au
PH:	+61 3 660 3209
FAX:	+61 3 662 1617
Newsgroups: comp.lang.smalltalk
From: tnt@netcom.com (Terry Turner)
Subject: question about st/v command line.
Date: Wed, 08 Apr 92 05:25:18 GMT
Organization: Watch the Skies
Distribution: comp

st/v (pm) allows one to query the command line. but anytime
one includes parameters on the command line smalltalk tries 
to load them (the parameters) as dlls. 

at first blush it would seem the command line support is useless.
what is the solution to this paradox?
-- 
terry
	tnt@netcom.com
From: dik@comp.lancs.ac.uk (Richard Bentley)
Newsgroups: comp.lang.smalltalk
Subject: Border-less windows in PP ST r4
Keywords: windows, Window Manager decorations, events
Date: 14 Apr 92 15:36:43 GMT
Organization: Department of Computing at Lancaster University, UK.


I am re-implementing some software in release 4 of PP ST-80
which requires Windows without window manager borders. This
can be achieved by setting the Window to be of type #popUp,
resulting in a different bit pattern being passed to X for
the creation of the window (see Window (class) >> private)
than if the Window was of type #normal or #dialog.

Like all other events, Smalltalk receives events occuring 
within this window via InputState >> process:. Mouse button
events correctly identify the recipient Window as the popUp,
as given in the second 'field' of the event. However key
presses (and releases) identify a different Window as the
recipient, and so keyboard events are queued until that
Window's controller gains control.

This is my understanding of the way the #popUp Window type
works (please somebody correct me if not!). My original
work around involves directly catching and routing keyboard
events to the #popUp window controller through modifications
to InputState >> process:, which is not very elegant (and I
suspect unnecessary). Does anyone have a better solution
(portable across window managers and platforms) which allows
Windows with no decorations to receive keyboard events ?

Please reply by email and I will summarise if anyone else
is interested.

Richard Bentley.

+------------------------------------+----------------------------+
| uucp :  ...!mcsun!ukc!dcl-cs!dik   |   Department of Computing  |
| arpa :  dik%lancs.comp@ucl.cs      |   University of Lancaster  |
| janet:  dik@uk.ac.lancs.comp       |   Bailrigg, Lancaster      |
| tel  :  (44) 524 65201 x3119       |   LA1 4YR,   UK.           |
+------------------------------------+----------------------------+
From: dudney@discovery.tamu.edu (William A. Dudney)
Newsgroups: comp.lang.smalltalk
Subject: example code and Books
Date: 14 Apr 92 22:35:17 GMT
Reply-To: dudney@discovery.tamu.edu

Hi,
This is probally a FAQ but could someone direct me to a good book on  
Smalltalk. I am using ObjC on a NeXT and just got gnu smalltalk and want  
to play with it but I dont know any thing about it except that ObjC  
borrowed some of the syntax.

Thanks in advance

Bill Dudney
NeXTMail dudney@discovery.tamu.edu
From: ju@Materna.DE (John Unwin)
Newsgroups: comp.lang.smalltalk
Subject: Re: VWin 1.1/Win 3.1 upgrade problems
Date: 10 Apr 92 09:02:30 GMT
Distribution: comp

thomas@straylight.med.ge.com (Thomas J. Stirn) writes:

>Last night I upgraded Windows 3.0 to Windows 3.1 and I thought I would give
>my general impressions.

>First off, here's my configuration:
>	IBM PS/2 model 50Z (286 at 10Mhz with Micro Channel)
>	7Mb 80ns 
>	110 MB SCSI 
>	30 MB internal
>	Soundblaster MCA


>Smalltalk V/Windows 1.1 encountered numerous "out of memory" errors (even
>though the new Program Manager said there was plenty of mem available) which
>would cause Windows to terminate Smalltalk (pretty rude when you haven't
>saved the image).  I could not open more than 3 CHB's or 2 CHB's and 2
>workspaces without encountering this error.  Reframing Smalltalk windows was
>an order of magnitude slower and selection of a new class within the CHB
>took considerably longer for the methods to appear than under 3.0.



I am running an a DELL 386 laptop with 4Mb ram and dont have any
problems running V under windows 3.1

I do have problems accessing our unix machines using host presenter
with windows 3.1

I cant say that I notice any speed penalties.

John
.
   
Newsgroups: comp.lang.smalltalk
From: gessel@cs.swarthmore.edu (Daniel Mark Abrahams-Gessel)
Subject: Smalltalk/V on Quadra
Organization: Swarthmore College
Distribution: na
Date: Wed, 8 Apr 1992 14:59:09 GMT

Has anyone gotten Smalltalk/V to work on the Quadra yet?

Thanks in Advance,

Dan

Newsgroups: comp.lang.smalltalk
From: sdl@linus.mitre.org (Steven D. Litvintchouk)
Subject: Re: ParcPlace v.2.5 on Powerbook
Organization: The MITRE Corporation, Bedford, MA
	<1992Apr13.134143.22019@m.cs.uiuc.edu>
Date: Mon, 13 Apr 1992 17:55:19 GMT


In article <1992Apr13.134143.22019@m.cs.uiuc.edu> johnson@m.cs.uiuc.edu (Ralph Johnson) writes:

> The more I have learned 4.0, the more I have realized that it follows
> the same spirit as the original MVC, and in part is just a much better
> incarnation of that spirit.  If you make sure that you learn 4.0 first,
> and not try to convert something piecemeal as a way to learn 4.0,
> you will probably find that conversion is not as hard as you thought
> at first.

Are there any good tutorials, textbooks, etc., that teach the new 4.0
model?  It took years before good tutorials (as magazine articles),
and textbooks, appeared that taught MVC well, and now we need the same
sort of thing for 4.0.



--
Steven Litvintchouk
MITRE Corporation
Burlington Road
Bedford, MA  01730

Fone:  (617)271-7753
ARPA:  sdl@mitre.org
UUCP:  linus!sdl
	"Where does he get those wonderful toys?"
From: anthony@zone4.ocunix.on.ca (Anthony Lander)
Newsgroups: comp.lang.smalltalk
Distribution: world
Subject: Re: Smalltalk V/Windows problem -- errors starting
Organization: Zone4
Date: Sun, 12 Apr 92 12:46:27 GMT

In article <1992Apr11.132552.14885@ctr.columbia.edu> david@osage.ctr.columbia.edu (David Friedlander) writes:
>
>I wonder if anyone has solved this problem: 
>
>Smalltalk V/Windows, which I gather from this group has lots of bugs.
>Version 1.0, Windows 3.0.
>
>Works fine most of the time.  But not infrequently, upon starting a
>new session, the environment does not come up again but instead, a 
>debug window giving errors from the display classes.  I could recreate

The best thing to do is upgrade to version 1.1, which fixes this problem.
Until then, if you get the red walkback window when you start up, type
"Notifier reinitialize", select it, and do it.  You can type right in the
debugging window.

		-anthony

-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
Anthony Lander                             anthony@zone4.ocunix.on.ca 

The Earth sayest thou? The Human Race? By ME created? Sad it's lot?
Nay, I have no remembrance of that place. Such world I fashioned not.
From: jaeckel@inti.informatik.uni-kl.de (Thomas Jaeckel)
Newsgroups: comp.lang.smalltalk
Subject: Latex Output.
Date: 15 Apr 92 14:22:49 GMT
Reply-To: jaeckel@inti.informatik.uni-kl.de (Thomas Jaeckel)
Organization: University of Kaiserslautern (Germany)

Hello.

I 'm looking for some Classes or Methods to create LaTex-Code
from TEXT objects. In ST-80R4 TEXT objects contain format
information like center, left- or right-alignment, boldface, 
italic, etc. All this information should be represented in the
LaTex-output. 
I 've got a class named LatexStream. This and some other stuff
are programmed by Carl McConnell (University of Illinois at 
Urbana-Champaign) to produce Latex ouput for Smalltalk code
(classes and methods). 

Thanks in advance

     Thomas 


Newsgroups: comp.lang.smalltalk,gnu.smalltalk
From: jwoehr@isis.cs.du.edu (Jack J. Woehr)
Subject: HELP find C++ Class Lib for Smalltalk
Summary: Where on FTP did I see this? I fergit!
Keywords: c++,smalltalk,class,library,port,nih 
Organization: Nyx, Public Access Unix at U. of Denver Math/CS dept.
Date: Mon, 6 Apr 92 01:15:39 GMT

Recently in my wanderings around FTP I stumbled on a class library for
C++ that implements Smalltalk classes (to aid in porting Smalltalk code
to C++). I didn't want it then ... NOW I want it ... but where the heck
did I see it?

Any help appreciated! If I find it, I'll post it on my BBS, the RealTime
Control & Forth Board, for the FTP-deprived to download!

email responses appreciated as News is down on he Well for a cupla
days ... try {hplabs,apple,ucb,pacbell}!well!jax or jax@well.sf.ca.us.

		=jax=

--
 # jax@well.{UUCP,sf.ca.us}  # #  Member, # # Vice President,       #
 # du!isis!koscej!jax        # # X3J14 TC # #  Forth Interest Group #
 # JAX on GEnie              # # for ANS  # #   P.O. Box 8231       #
 # SYSOP RCFB (303) 278-0364 # #  Forth   # #    San Jose CA 95155  #
Newsgroups: comp.lang.smalltalk
From: tom.koschate@rose.com (tom koschate)
Subject: Is this a DigiBug?
Organization: Rose Media Inc, Toronto, Ontario.
Date: Fri, 17 Apr 1992 17:01:52 GMT
X-Gated-By: Usenet <==> RoseMail Gateway (v1.2)


Date Entered: 04-17-92 11:03
Entered 04-16-92 18:45

M.>DigiTalk's ST/V 286: If you prune and 
M.>graft a subtree by first removing all
M.>instances of all classes about to be 
M.>moved, then file out the subtree, then
M.>remove all the classes, then edit the 
M.>filout to determin the new node under
M.>which the subtree is to be connected, 
M.>then file in the modified sources - 
M.>you are in trouble:
M.>All methods anywhere in the system which 
M.>reference classes included in the
M.>move have to be recompiled manually, 
M.>otherwise you will have lots of "not
M.>understood" errors by messages directed 
M.>to an instance of DeletedClass.

How would you have them handle the removal of a class?  Unless they 
replace pointers to the removed class with a pointer to something within 
the image, there's a very real risk of trashing the image.  Smalltalk 
has no way of knowing that when you do a FileOut/Delete that you're 
intending to FileIn again.  Do you want precognition from a $99 piece of 
software?

Tom



---
   WinQwk 1.30 #0   Unregistered Evaluation Copy
   RoseMail 1.70:
From: 871323o@aucs.acadiau.ca (Oliver Oey)
Newsgroups: comp.lang.smalltalk
Subject: withAll: missing from SUN Smalltalk-80
Summary: Missing class method.
Keywords: parcplace st80 array
Date: 11 Apr 92 00:50:56 GMT
Organization: Acadia University

Class method 'withAll:' of class ArrayedCollection is missing from our
local installation of ParcPlace Smalltalk-80 for SUN workstations.  That
particular installation is a first wave, October 1991, release.  The
installation on the 80486 pc and the one on my Mac are both second wave,
Febuary 1992, release.  Those two are working fine, all methods intact.

I am wondering if that method is really missing from the first wave, or
has our local installation been corrupted?  I don't think that
particular missing method is anything fancy, because it appears in a
short example in my copy of the User's Guide.

Any help/suggestion/ideas will be appreciated.

--
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Oliver Oey                              email: 871323o@aucs.acadiau.ca
Jodrey School of Computer Science
Wolfville, Nova Scotia, Canada
From: rajagopa@memstvx1.memst.edu
Newsgroups: comp.lang.smalltalk
Subject: expert system in smalltalk
Keywords: es, smalltalk, rules
Date: 9 Apr 92 07:16:26 GMT
Organization: Memphis State University

Hi,
   Anyone out there who has developed rule based expert system in smaltalk?
I have two specific problems:
 a) The facts in the knowledge base keep changing with time, how do I
    model this?
 b) How do I incorporate the rules in the system?
 
please be explicit, i am not an expert in smalltalk

thanks in advance

balaji
Newsgroups: comp.lang.smalltalk
From: muhr@opal.cs.tu-berlin.de (Thomas Muhr)
Subject: Re: Character conversion
Organization: Techn. University of Berlin, Germany
Distribution: fb20
Date: Sun, 12 Apr 1992 10:56:16 GMT

mpreeve@athena.mit.edu (Mary Pat Reeve) writes:
>have a way to do this.  It has the method asciiValue which is coded as a
>primitive, but I need some way to go from a decimal ascii value to it's
>character value.  Does anyone have any suggestions?
I am not sure if you really meant this: the method "asCharacter" converts
decimal ASCII to its corresponding character.
Thomas
--
Thomas Muhr - Project ATLAS - Technical University of Berlin
voice: (xx49) (030) 314 27882  
INTERNET: muhrth@db0tui11.bitnet
UUCP: muhr@opal.cs.tu-berlin.de
From: khaw@parcplace.com (Mike Khaw)
Newsgroups: comp.lang.smalltalk
Subject: Re: Smalltalk/V on Quadra
Date: 13 Apr 92 00:29:05 GMT

In <1992Apr9.210023.11326@prodigy.bc.ca> David Murray writes:

>company.  Parc Place seems to have a much stronger commitment to the *Mac*
>(everyone in the Parc office has a Mac on their desk.  I saw no clones and a
>few suns as second machines when i toured their offices).  They have excellent

To be precise, most of the techical staff have Suns, while most of the
non-technical staff have Macs. There is also a growing population of
PC-clones (including laptops), as well as some samples of each of the
other machines on which ParcPlace Smalltalk runs.
--
Michael Khaw	Domain=khaw@parcplace.com, UUCP=...!uunet!parcplace!khaw
ParcPlace Systems, Mountain View, CA	PRODUCT INFO: info@parcplace.com
Newsgroups: comp.lang.smalltalk
From: kahn@starbase.mitre.org (Martha Kahn)
Subject: Cursor and Menu Question - ST/V Mac
Organization: The MITRE Corporation
Date: Fri, 17 Apr 1992 18:20:00 GMT


I'm using Smalltalk/V Mac version 1.2 and Widgets V-Mac and 
I'm having a couple of problems.

I can't change the cursor. I've tried:
	CursorManager execute change
  and   (CursorManager execute) showWhile: []
What am I doing wrong?

I also made a runtime version of my program by
editing the example file which Digitalk provides
with the Runtime Cloner (and not really knowing
what I was doing). I got everything to work except
the 
	About MyApplication...
under the Apple menu. It still says 
	About Widgets... when my application window's open
and when you close it but before you quit it says
	About V...

When you choose the About... item in both cases
it does what I want - shows the description of my
application, not V or Widgets. Can anybody help
me change the menu item?

Thanks for any advice,
Martha
mkahn@mitre.org
From: mario@cs.man.ac.uk (Mario Wolczko)
Newsgroups: comp.lang.smalltalk
Subject: Manchester Smalltalk Goodies Archive -- problem fixed
Date: 14 Apr 92 15:22:06 GMT
Reply-To: mario@cs.man.ac.uk (Mario Wolczko)
Organization: Department of Computer Science, University of Manchester

If you tried to access the Manchester Smalltalk Goodies Archive on
mushroom.cs.man.ac.uk (130.88.13.70) using anonymous ftp, between Mar
25 and Apr 13, you may have been denied access unexpectedly (possibly
with an accompanying message about your host not having a registered
name).

This problem has now been fixed (I believe).  Sorry for any
inconvenience caused.  If you encounter further problems, please
mail me. 

Mario Wolczko

   ______      Dept. of Computer Science   Internet:      mario@cs.man.ac.uk
 /~      ~\    The University              uucp:    mcsun!uknet!man.cs!mario
(    __    )   Manchester M13 9PL          JANET:         mario@uk.ac.man.cs
 `-':  :`-'    U.K.                        Tel: +44-61-275 6146  (FAX: 6236)
____;  ;_____________the mushroom project___________________________________
Newsgroups: comp.lang.smalltalk
From: otsubo@leland.Stanford.EDU (Goro Otsubo)
Subject: Re:Smalltalk/V on Quadra
Organization: DSG, Stanford University, CA 94305, USA
Date: Sat, 11 Apr 92 05:05:43 GMT

Just return to the original point. The following is what I did to let 
Smalltalk/V work on Quadra.

1)Sent e-mail which asks about Quadra compatible version of smalltalk/V
with serial number of Smalltalk/V.

2)A couple of days later, Digitalk sent me back the e-mail which says
that Quadra-compatible version is available from Digitalk forum in 
compuserve. The person at Digitalk activated my account ( in compuserve)
to enable me to download the file.

3)Download the file from compuserve. So far, it is working pretty well.

Goro Otsubo
From: andrzej@bcars268.UUCP (Andrzej Bieszczad)
Newsgroups: comp.lang.smalltalk
Subject: Re: Where to get ST80 for Windows??
Date: 10 Apr 92 16:05:12 GMT
Organization: Bell-Northern Research, Ottawa, Canada

In article <khaw.702677113@parcplace.com>, khaw@parcplace.com (Mike Khaw) writes:
|> In <1992Apr1.143701.14036@bnr.ca> andrzej@bcars268.UUCP (Andrzej Bieszczad) writes:
|> 
|> >I am sorry to tell you that, but the price of ST80 (R4) is roughly 6 
|> >times the price of ST/V for Windows (in US).
|> 
|> The single-copy educational domestic price for ParcPlace Smalltalk is
|> US$350. Domestic educational site licenses are US$3500/year (for one
|> platform; US$400/year per additional platform). The licensed
|> institution is entitled to redistribute copies to staff and students at
|> no additional charge as long as the copies are used for educational
|> purposes (e.g,, a student may not get a free copy and take it away for
|> use at some for-profit company). For more information on educational
|> pricing, contact ParcPlace Sales (info@parcplace.com).
|> 
|> If you are a commercial developer of Smalltalk software, you can apply
|> to become a ParcPlace Partner, which allows you to buy the first copy
|> of Smalltalk for $350. There are other benefits and incentives as well.
|> For more information on the Partners program contact John Bruzas
|> (johnb@parcplace.com).
|> 
...
|> --
|> Michael Khaw	Domain=khaw@parcplace.com, UUCP=...!uunet!parcplace!khaw
|> ParcPlace Systems, Mountain View, CA	PRODUCT INFO: info@parcplace.com

The official price of ST80-R4 is US $3500.00.

The official upgrade price is US $800.00.

The prices are taken from the newsletter and from the offers sent to me
by ParcPlace. Correct me if I am wrong.

-- 
========================================================================
Andrzej Bieszczad                     | Phone:  (613) 763-2259
Bell-Northern Research, Ltd.          | Fax:    (613) 763-3283
Dept. 9K12, P.O. Box 3511, Station C, | USENET: uunet!bnrgate!eh!andrzej
Ottawa, Ontario, Canada, K1Y 4H7      | BitNet: andrzej@BNR.CA
========================================================================
Newsgroups: comp.lang.smalltalk
From: VALLHON@ricevm1.rice.edu (VALLHONRAT, S V)
Subject: Object-Oriented Design Course Offered
Organization: Rice University, Houston, TX
Date: Thu, 9 Apr 1992 16:03:54 GMT

Rice University's Office of Continuing Studies is offering a three day course
on Object-Oriented Analysis, Modeling, and Design from June 1 - 3, 1992 in
Houston, Texas.  The fee for this course is $595.  For more information call
(713) 527-4803 or (713) 520-6022.
From: cohill@vtserf.cc.vt.edu (Andrew M. Cohill)
Newsgroups: comp.lang.smalltalk
Subject: Re: Smalltalk/V on Quadra
Date: 8 Apr 92 16:16:32 GMT
Distribution: na
Organization: Fire in the Mountain

In article <H7GHBW8X@cc.swarthmore.edu> gessel@cs.swarthmore.edu (Daniel Mark Abrahams-Gessel) writes:
>Has anyone gotten Smalltalk/V to work on the Quadra yet?
>
Smalltalk/V does not work on the Quadra, period.  Does not matter if the
cache is turned on or off.  Digitalk, as usual, has no one who can
provide a straight answer on when the fix will be available.  I called a
month ago and was told it would be available in two weeks, and to call
back then.

I called back in two weeks and got the usual Digitalk support person;
i.e., someone who can barely speak English.  Long rigamarole about
serial numbers.

I called back two days later and got someone more reasonable who was
able to verify that I had a registered copy, and took my name.  No
promise on when the fix would be available.  

There just is not enough competition in the Smalltalk market;  I am
beginning to think it will never really be accepted because neither
ParcPlace or Digitalk seems to want to supply the workaday tools that
serious developers need.

I just got a copy of Prograph (for the Mac), which is based heavily on
ST ideas, but has the backing of a company who understands developer
needs.

Andrew


-- 
|          ...we have to look for routes of power our teachers never       
|              imagined, or were encouraged to avoid.   T. Pynchon          
|                    
|Andrew Cohill        cohill@vtserf.cc.vt.edu            VPI&SU
From: cohill@vtserf.cc.vt.edu (Andrew M. Cohill)
Newsgroups: comp.lang.smalltalk
Subject: Re: Smalltalk/V on Quadra
Date: 9 Apr 92 13:40:01 GMT
Distribution: na
Organization: Fire in the Mountain

In article <1992Apr8.224418.10512@techbook.com> sehyo@techbook.com (Sehyo Chang) writes:
>
>Other problem with Digitalk is that price of their smalltalk
>seems to going up with every release.  Latest incarnation of
>OS/2 version 2.0 VPM will cost around $1000, which will be 
>like pricing structure of Parc Place(ridiculous price of
>$3995 for mac/pc).  On top of that, Digitalk's class library
>is  as if written by third class hacker.  It is full of
>bugs and badly commented (or no comment) codes.
>
>I think Digitalk has totaly abandoned hobbyist and small-business
>developers, and has adopted strategy similar to ParcPlace ;
>going for MIS/Corporate Market .  This is reflected in their
>pricing structure and their heavy emphasis on OS/2 instead of
>Window and Mac platforms.
>

I have to agree;  I believe that their partnership with IBM has given
them a distorted view of the real world.  I have no problem with paying
more for a good development system;  the problem is that Digitalk is
still distributing what amounts to a hobbyist system for more money.  To
become productive requires an inordinate amount of work on what should
be basic class library stuff.

The V/Widgets stuff from Coopers and Peter go a long way towards fixing
this problem, and I can't imagine doing ST/V work without their stuff,
but some other things are still badly needed:

	Comm Toolbox support
	Persistent object support
	Database object
	Better support for people writing primitives

Smalltalk/V is a little like Windows--more people buy it than use it.
The low prices have encouraged experimentation, but I think Digitalk is
going to see their market dry up if they keep raising prices without
adding value.  It's one thing to experiment with a $200 package; it's
another thing to experiment with a $600/$1000 package.


-- 
|          ...we have to look for routes of power our teachers never       
|              imagined, or were encouraged to avoid.   T. Pynchon          
|                    
|Andrew Cohill        cohill@vtserf.cc.vt.edu            VPI&SU