From: kcochran@nyx.cs.du.edu (Keith "Justified And Ancient" Cochran)
Subject: Re: Spoken Like a True ProLifer
Summary: Yet another idiot crawls out of the woodwork, I see... 
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Keywords: You Expect Me To Mark My Deletions?  Dream On... 
Organization: Nyx, Public Access Unix at U. of Denver Math/CS dept.
Date: Wed, 13 Jan 93 02:35:19 GMT

In article <C0FAKM.1rE@news.cso.uiuc.edu> vengeanc@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu () writes:
>mon@cray.com (Muriel Nelson) writes:
>>In article <C04w4u.CBs@news.cso.uiuc.edu> vengeanc@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu () writes:
>
>>[massive, merciful deletia]
>>>Don't put words into my mouth.  Having sex and getting pregnant are not crimes.
>>>They are, however, actions that an adult must deal with like an adult.  
>>>
>>And what if the individual involved is _not_ an adult?
>
>Doesn't make a difference.  Then her parents are responsible for her.  That

***NEWS FLASH*** Males under the age of 18 *never* have sex.      ^^^

>is the fact in almost every situation involving minors.  
>
>>>
>>>You are wrong.  You are so completely wrong I know you have NO understanding
>>>of this subject.  Women's lives are EQUAL to preborn babies.  Only when the 
>>>mother will definitely die from the birth should the baby be killed.  This
>>>should be treated as a great tragedy, which it is.  The baby deserves a funeral,
>>>not a garbage can.

I missed this the first time around, but doesn't this sound like Kevin C.
Welch?

>
>>I think a woman's life is worth more than that of a
>>conceptus.  2/3 of all zygotes will never make it to term
>>because of natural factors.  What is it about the wishes
>>of a woman that makes them inferior to the whims of nature?
>>Do you think only women have equal worth with embryoes, or
>>do you ascribe this valuation to men as well?  Would you 
>>demand 100% certainty of maternal death before the woman's
>>life would be considered?  No other complications short of
>>death would qualify?  No permanent physical damage would
>>move you to compassion for the woman?
>
>Let me make this plain and simple.  If you start with the premise that
>the preborn baby is a person, then all other considerations are moot.
>For example: if you had a choice between sacrificing your leg, or sacrificing
>your mother, which would you choose?  I'd sacrifice my leg.  Murder is wrong.  
>It is my contention that the preborn baby is a person, and that it deserves
>all rights implied by that label.  
>
>Compassion? Of course I have compassion.  But just when does compassion
>warrant murder?  Since when does any mother have the right to have her
>child MURDERED to protect herself from a medical problem?  Its easy
>for you to talk about being compassionate.  Why not try a little compassion
>for that poor baby you want hacked into little pieces.  

Now this _definitly_ sound like Kevin.  Wasn't he studying to be a "biomedical
ethiciest(sp?)"?

>
>>You seem to think that a woman incurs the responsibility
>>to suffer _any_ amount of physical damage, up to, and possibly
>>including _death_ (since we'd sacrifice all the women whose
>>deaths could not be predicted with certainty) as a result
>>of consensual sex.  What equivalent _physical_ responsibility
>>do you propose for a man who has sex?  If you say he has to
>>support the kid, how does that differ from the mother's duty
>>to support the kid?
>
>The woman incurs the responsibility to suffer virtually any amount of
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

>physical damage, yes.  There would of course be exceptions depending on
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Tell me again how much "compassion" you have.  I must have misunderstood
you the first time.

>the specifics of this "damage".  There is no way to make a man physically
>at risk for his partners pregnancy.  The father has a financial and
>moral responsibility towards his children.  

What sort of fucking fantasy land do you live in?
--
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