From: mkaziz@vela.acs.oakland.edu (KHALED AZIZ)
Subject: Re: My objections to the survey...
Organization: Oakland University, Rochester MI.
Date: Fri, 6 Nov 1992 22:39:20 GMT


> ahmed-shakil@cs.yale.edu (Shakil Waiz Ahmed) writes:
>> mkaziz@vela.acs.oakland.edu (KHALED AZIZ) writes:

>Interesting that you should say that considering that you took the
>liberty of quoting from personal mail without first asking me.
>

Excuse me Shakil, if you can take the liberty of telling the whole world
what discussion we had without asking me, I don't see anything
wrong with quoting from your mail without asking you.


>  Regarding what you say about
>SCB being more than an electronic bulletin board is technically just
>plain wrong.  It is a newsgroup just like every other.  The fact that
>you make your social life out of it is clearly a problem that *you* have
>to deal with.  If you want to know about the people on the net, the
>best way to do so would be to request people to get in touch with you
>informally.

I see some contradiction here.  If SCB is just an electronic bulletin
board and nothing more, according to your suggestion I should not
ask people to get in touch with me informally either, should I? I
should not try to use it to make my social life out of it, period!
And I should also get rid of my feelings, emotions and all the attributes
that make me a human being and only after that should I read SCB, right?
And while I read or post, I should act like a computer and interpret
everything as either 1 or 0, right?  Life is not simply a combination
of "technically" right and wrong things. You are more concerned about
the technical definition of SCB, not the real life definition.  And
this is where we differ from each other.

>An official survey of the nature you posted is unlikely
>to reveal anything interesting about the *people* on the net you want
>to know about. 

Your interpretation shouldn't apply only to this particular survey but
to all surveys.  And no person or organization should conduct surveys
since they are unlikely to reveal anything interesting.  So according
to you, we should get rid of this widely used statistical tool, right?
If not, please explain how the nature of our survey is different from 
any other.

>I'm sure a lot of readers *do* share your view.  I never claimed otherwise.
>I merely stated *my* opinion, I don't claim to speak for anyone else.

Sounds like saying sorry to somebody after punching in the nose. If you
want to discuss this issue please don't add statements like this. 
Otherwise lets stop the discussion right here.

>>         We are not going to say "this is what we found out" and have no 
>>         intention to add "this is what the readers want".  

The word not was a typo.  Sorry about that.  It should have been: we are
just going to say "this is what we found out" and have no intention to
add "this is what the readers want".


>
>> More importantly, conducting a survey where one can specify ones
>> gripes and likes gives off the illusion that there is an authority to
>> whom one can direct such comments.  There isn't, and that wouldn't be
>> in the spirit of an unmoderated newsgroup.  I basically object to any
>> kind of bureaucratization of SCB.
>> 
>>         Why do you have to make things complicated for no reason?  
>
>Excuse me, but I think I just gave a reason.

You didn't give a reason.  You gave an opinion.  I fail to understand
from your statement how the survey is contributing to bureaucratization
of SCB.  The statement is not backed up by explanations and therefore
I consider it to be null.  Thus you are complicating a simple idea
for no reason.

>>         The primary purpose of any survey is to reveal facts, 
>>         not improving something.
>
>So what facts do you hope to gather from this that aren't otherwise 
>available? 

What facts are otherwise available to us and how?  


>>         Except for its name of course, which suggests that this newsgroup
>>         has some relationship to an entity called Bangladesh. And anybody
>>         with some degree of common-sense would conclude that the Bangladesh 
>>         and related issues are discussed here.  Everybody knows SCB is an 
>>         electronic bulletin board and may be to you that is all what it is. 
>>         But SCB sure does have some degree of difference with other groups  
>>         SCB's readers have some distinct characteristics.  They are either 
>>         Bangladeshis or the people who has some interest in Bangladesh.  
>>         So SCB does have a secondary identity and the survey is an attempt 
>>         to know more about this identity.
>
>And the same people with this "degree" of common sense will also know
>that an unmoderated newsgroup means anyone can post anything to the
>group.  Yup, that means I could post an article about underwater
>basketweaving in the Bahamas if I wanted to.  That's just the way
>USENET is structured.  That's why you get articles by people like
>dave@ttd.teradyne.com.  Do you think he has an interest in Bangladesh?
>Now tell me, what is it about your survey that is going to reveal this
>unique identity of SCB readership? 

This is a completely unrealistic view.  If this was the case, there
was no need to for 2000 newsgroups in the USENET.  One group would have
easily serve the purpose.  Sure you can post anything you like but you're
unlikely to do so if you are not somebody unusual (like dave).  If this is
not the case, why didn't you post an article about underwater 
basketweaving in the Bahamas?  dave is an exception and the example
is meaningless.  


>> Yet the people who are conducting the survey cannot implement 
>> any changes based on the result.  
>> 
>>         And they don't have any intention to change anything!
>
>Two problems with this:
>
>1) Then what's the point?

The point is an instinct that makes us human beings, the desire to
learn.

>2) It still gives off the illusion of an SCB authority
>

I still fail to see how.

-- 
     KHALED AZIZ            |    " Thought of going back, but all I'd see 
mkaziz@vela.acs.oakland.edu |      are strangers' faces, and all the scars
mkaziz@argo.acs.oakland.edu |      that love erases "    - NEIL DIAMOND
Newsgroups: soc.culture.bangladesh