HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: Roger.Wilfong@umich.edu
Newsgroups: rec.models.rockets
Subject: RE: More NCR Problems
Date: 12 Oct 92 17:10:00 GMT
Organization: UofM Hospitals

In Article <12OCT199211480890@vx.cis.umn.edu> "soc1070                         " says:
> 
> The shoulder being off center is truely a problem, but maybe it was just 
> part of a bad lot, maybe not (maybe NCR only gets the rejects from the
> other manufacturers, who knows?).
> 
  
I suspect that NCR buys cones from ACE, Aerotech and LOC in bulk.  Rich Rau 
(THOY) is a member of HUVARS and does it that way.  Actually, Rich lets out
bids for the 2.6" cones.  Depending on who is lowest in price, he changes 
between LOC and Aerotech (and the shape of his kits changes).  Rich does 
have some percent of rejects that he catches before they get into a kits.
  
One of the things you need to remember is that all of these companies (with 
the possible exception of Aerotech) are basement or back room operations.  
LOC started in the back of an arts and crafts/hobby shop named 'Lots of 
Crafts'.  THOY was in Rich's basement until recently.  I visited NCR when 
it was in Chris Pearson's basement (actually it was in the basement of a 
house Chris owned and was renting to some relatives).  For the most part all
of these companies (with a few notable exceptions) are reputable and try to
put out the best product they can.  Most will quickly make right any errors 
or quality problems.
  
As far as poor quality parts, I don't know how other manufacturers handle it, 
but I know that HUVARS' has been given entire shipments of 'substandard' 
parts rejected by THOY.  Most of these companies have grown-up and/or live 
on word-of-mouth.  When you consider the actual cost of these parts to the 
manufacturer, it doesn't make sense that they would jeopardize their 
reputation to save a couple of bucks by intentionally shipping a bad part.
From: steve@geohub.gcn.uoknor.edu
Newsgroups: rec.models.rockets
Subject: looking for old model
Date: 15 Oct 92 18:14:03 GMT
Article-I.D.: constell.1992Oct15.181403.12910
Reply-To: steve@geohub.gcn.uoknor.edu ()
Organization: Geosciences Computing Network/University of Oklahoma
Originator: news@midway.ecn.uoknor.edu

I am looking for a old estes rocket model called the interseptor.

 Does anyone know if the model is available ?

 please let met know.
From: paul@taniwha.UUCP (Paul Campbell)
Newsgroups: rec.models.rockets
Subject: Re: parachute 101
Keywords: chute construction
Date: 6 Oct 92 15:17:11 GMT
Organization: Taniwha Systems Design

In article <BvEtnE.27o@news.cso.uiuc.edu> smith@mrcnext.cso.uiuc.edu (Greg Smith) writes:
>
>it encounters a bit too much ejection charge heat.  For sport and 
>payload models with 12" - 24" plastic 'chutes, I use 15 lb. *braided* 
>nylon fishing line.  It's thicker than the coat thread, similar in 


On the other hand nylon can have it's problems, my LOC Magnum has twice fallen
out of the sky after a 'chute failure (but it's tough it keeps coming back
for more) - it worried me, I couldn't figure out why - the 'chute has
nylon lines that are tied around the bungee and pulled tight, both times
I found that the nylon was broken. After a later flight I noticed that the
ends of the lines were a little melted .... I think that if you fasten
the nylon to the bungee so that it doesn't slide along the bungee during
deployment you wont have problems ....

On the other hand I use fishing swivels all the time without problems ....

	Paul
-- 
Paul Campbell    UUCP: ..!mtxinu!taniwha!paul     AppleLink: CAMPBELL.P
	
       	So far the Republican's economic policy is best described
		     as "C'est la vie Capitalism"
From: cdt@sw.stratus.com (C. D. Tavares)
Newsgroups: rec.models.rockets
Subject: Re: Boost Glider Problem
Date: 14 Oct 92 21:16:03 GMT
Organization: Stratus Computer, Inc.

In article <1992Oct14.174405.23746@ennews.eas.asu.edu>, elder@enuxha.eas.asu.edu (Greg Elder) writes:
>     I used a B6-2 engine (B4-2 and B6-2 are the recommended engines).
> Shortly after lift-off, a portion of the left wing tore off.  The glider
> then took a nose dive into the ground.  The break wasn't at a glue joint
> but on a "clean" part of the wood.  Also, the break wasn't even but a
> rather jagged tear.  Since this was my first try at a boost glider, I'm
> interested in knowing what may have gone wrong.  Could the wood have been
> defective in some way? 

More likely you "exceeded the speed of balsa."  Unless you built the
wing strong (e.g., tissued it) a B6-2 probably was too much thrust for
it.  A B4-2 would not have stressed your model as much.  The wood
might have been weak, or you might have airfoiled that wing in such
a way as to make it "twist" under boost.

> Are there common mistakes in constructing a B/G
> that would have caused this to happen? 

It happens.  Replace the wing and fly it again.  I have a number of
gliders that never worked well until they crashed and were repaired.
I have an old Nymph that power-pranged consistently until the boom 
snapped.  When I repaired it, it gained a slight decalage angle on 
the tail end and started winning contests.  I have a 1.25x underslung 
CMR Buzzard that has gotten several places at contests.  It has also 
power-pranged twice and once set a grass fire.  The wings have been
glued back together twice, and silkspanned.  It still flies (I think).
Get back on the horse.
-- 

cdt@pdp.sw.stratus.com      --If you believe that I speak for my company,
OR cdt@vos.stratus.com        write today for my special Investors' Packet...
From: cdt@sw.stratus.com (C. D. Tavares)
Newsgroups: rec.models.rockets
Subject: Re: events?
Date: 15 Oct 92 15:45:18 GMT
Distribution: rec
Organization: Stratus Computer, Inc.

In article <1992Oct15.094729.15379@vax5.cit.cornell.edu>, iqv@vax5.cit.cornell.edu writes:
> Sorry, i forgot one more question.  Are there any groups that are having an
> event in the new york (state) area?
> 					David

There are two clubs in NYS; one in Albany/Schenectady, and the other in
the Rochester area.  For the former, you can contact Jeff Vincent, Box 
523, Slingerlands NY 12159.  For the latter, try Dan Wolf, 235 Kislingbury,
Rochester NY 14613.
-- 

cdt@pdp.sw.stratus.com      --If you believe that I speak for my company,
OR cdt@vos.stratus.com        write today for my special Investors' Packet...
Xref: sparky rec.models.rockets:2750 sci.space:14345
From: paul@taniwha.UUCP (Paul Campbell)
Newsgroups: rec.models.rockets,sci.space
Subject: DOT troubles for reloads
Date: 9 Oct 92 04:25:02 GMT
Organization: Taniwha Systems Design, Oakland CA

As most people on this group know the DOT has been in a tizzy about
reloadable model rocket and high power rocket reloads and the shipping
of them across country - this has caused all sorts of problems for the
manufacturers and those of us who use them.

Anyway I've just heard that they've discovered someone else who ships
AP/rubber reloads across country to haras .... NASA - after all that's
how they make the SRBs .... it's really the same technology - except we don't
have as many O-rings ....


	Paul
-- 
Paul Campbell    UUCP: ..!mtxinu!taniwha!paul     AppleLink: CAMPBELL.P
	
       	So far the Republican's economic policy is best described
		     as "C'est la vie Capitalism"
From: cdt@sw.stratus.com (C. D. Tavares)
Newsgroups: rec.models.rockets
Subject: Re: NARAM SUMMARY????
Date: 7 Oct 92 20:11:15 GMT
Distribution: na
Organization: Stratus Computer, Inc.

In article <1992Oct5.210656.19215@cbfsb.cb.att.com>, hrbob@ixstar.ih.att.com (R.E. Wiersbe) writes:
> With all the discussions about which events should or should not be run, how
> much it will cost, the reload debate, etc, I never saw anyone post a summary
> of NARAM from this year. Did anyone go, or should I wait for the next couple 
> of AmSpam's to read about it? 

A lot of us went.  What you're really asking is, "why aren't people writing
articles about it?"  Any newsletter editor can tell you the answer to this one.

> I'm getting the impression that this year was ho-hum, even the guys who went
> from our club didn't have much to say. The only things I heard about were the
> Great Estes Prang and some insanity about scaring turtles to death. Oh yeah,
> they also said it was hot.

What makes a meet un-ho-hum?  Usually people talk about prangs.  Well, there
weren't that many impressive prangs this year, except for Mary Roberts' and
Rich Zarecki's.  We did a whole hell of a lot of flying, a lot of it while
many of us were still asleep.
-- 

cdt@pdp.sw.stratus.com      --If you believe that I speak for my company,
OR cdt@vos.stratus.com        write today for my special Investors' Packet...
Newsgroups: rec.models.rockets
From: hrbob@ixstar.ih.att.com (R.E. Wiersbe)
Subject: Re: NARAM SUMMARY????
Originator: news@cbnewsb.cb.att.com
Organization: AT&T Bell Laboratories
Distribution: na
Date: Wed, 7 Oct 1992 22:57:39 GMT

In article <7060@transfer.stratus.com> cdt@sw.stratus.com (C. D. Tavares) writes:
>In article <1992Oct5.210656.19215@cbfsb.cb.att.com>, hrbob@ixstar.ih.att.com (R.E. Wiersbe) writes:
>> With all the discussions about which events should or should not be run, how
>> much it will cost, the reload debate, etc, I never saw anyone post a summary
>> of NARAM from this year. Did anyone go, or should I wait for the next couple 
>> of AmSpam's to read about it? 
>
>A lot of us went.  What you're really asking is, "why aren't people writing
>articles about it?"  Any newsletter editor can tell you the answer to this one.

No, I'm asking why the people who have access to r.m.r haven't said a whole
lot about NARAM. Opinions, what worked, what didn't, what they thought, etc.
I only get 1 newsletter (my problem, no one else's), and only a _handfull_ of
people will ever write articles for AmSpam (and a lot of those probably won't
get published).

>> I'm getting the impression that this year was ho-hum, even the guys who went
>> from our club didn't have much to say. The only things I heard about were the
>> Great Estes Prang and some insanity about scaring turtles to death. Oh yeah,
>> they also said it was hot.
>
>What makes a meet un-ho-hum?  Usually people talk about prangs.  Well, there
>weren't that many impressive prangs this year, except for Mary Roberts' and
>Rich Zarecki's.  We did a whole hell of a lot of flying, a lot of it while
>many of us were still asleep.

Well, I like hearing about prangs as much as anyone, but there's a lot more
that goes on at NARAM than that. The flew a lot of events this year, something 
interesting must have happened (that someone was awake for). Kind of a moot
point though, I got my AmSpam today.

Bob Wiersbe 	NAR# 44588	hrbob@ihlpb.att.com
Newsgroups: rec.models.rockets
From: ntaib@silver.ucs.indiana.edu (Iskandar Taib)
Subject: Re: NARAM SUMMARY????
Organization: Indiana University
Distribution: usa
Date: Thu, 15 Oct 1992 20:37:18 GMT

In article <1992Oct5.171216.1503@ultb.isc.rit.edu> jsvrc@rc.rit.edu (J A Stephen Viggiano) writes:
>I don't know what you mean about this being a problem. Dual egglofting is a
>very challenging event; are you trying to say that chute size will be the
>determining factor? I disagree. Recovery isn't the only phase that claims eggs,
>particularly in dual egg. Believe me, I've broken more than my share. :-)

Now I'm curious. Do the eggs have to rest on one another? Do people 
protect them with padding? Is there a "standard egg" or do people 
draw lots for eggs? Do people put them in plastic bags to protect
against breakages? After all an egg-soaked rocket isn't fun during 
the long drive home in a hot car  9-)






-- 
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Iskandar Taib                          | The only thing worse than Peach ala
Internet: NTAIB@SILVER.UCS.INDIANA.EDU |    Frog is Frog ala Peach
Bitnet:   NTAIB@IUBACS                 !
Newsgroups: rec.models.rockets
From: buzz@rsd.dl.nec.com (Buzz McDermott)
Subject:  Changes to FAQ
Keywords: FAQ
Organization: NEC America, Radio Software Dept
Date: Mon, 12 Oct 1992 14:15:48 GMT


            NOTICE OF CHANGE IN THE FORMAT OF THE R.M.R FAQ

The r.m.r FAQ will be undergoing a major change beginning with the 
November posting.  Jack Hagerty (jack@lll-winken.llnl.gov) has been kind
enough to assume some of the FAQ responsibilities.  The FAQ will be in five
parts, as follows:

    FAQ.general     will include the current FAQ sections on the Glossary,
                    addresses, model rocketry, and Born Again Rocketeers
    FAQ.hpr         will include high power topics, including hpr ignition
    FAQ.competition will include info on scale, competition, and records
    FAQ.payloads    (all new) will include information on cameras, video,
                     telemetry, and other payloads
    FAQ.tips        will include construction tips, the current section
                    on R/C R/G, and other tidbits and misc. goodies yanked
                    out of r.m.r postings

While r.m.r does not have a large readership, it does have a wealth of 
information.  The goal in this change is to try and get this information to
the readers of r.m.r in as usable a format as possible.  It also allows
multiple people to maintain the FAQ.  Beginning in November, you will 
probably see the FAQ posted in pieces at different times, all 'around' the
beginning of the month (maybe I'll finally get around to setting the FAQ up
on the FAQ server...one of these days :-(.

============================================================================
Buzz McDermott                   Internet: buzz@rsd.dl.nec.com
NAR   13559
TRA    1785
============================================================================
From: ntaib@silver.ucs.indiana.edu (Iskandar Taib)
Newsgroups: rec.models.rockets
Subject: Re: NARAM SUMMARY????
Date: 15 Oct 92 22:10:27 GMT
Article-I.D.: usenet.Bw6o9G.AK1
Distribution: na
Organization: Indiana University

In article <1992Oct1.203341.2269@ultb.isc.rit.edu> jsvrc@rc.rit.edu (J A Stephen Viggiano) writes:
>In article <45522@donald.WichitaKS.NCR.COM> msjohnso@donald.WichitaKS.NCR.COM (Mark Johnson) writes:

||None that can't be solved by the judicious use of a triple-beam balance.
||The weight differences between the various total impulses in this specific
||case are O(20 grams). I for one don't really care what propellant formula
||the modeler is using, so long as I know the motor is no heavier than the
||heaviest E motor.

|Nice idea, but falls completely apart once we examine the facts. The specific
|impulse of BlackJack propellant is about one-third less than that of
|Blue Thunder and White Lightning. One could easily have a G which is no
|heavier than the heaviest F. One could easily have a 55 NS F which is no
|heavier than the heaviest E. A triple-beam balance, or an analytic balance,
|for that matter, is completely inadequate for the purpose.

Are all three available as reloads? I assume that there would be some 
rule that says one can only use approved reloads.. then again theres 
no real way to check... well heck, theres one big problem right there.

Otherwise I'd say dispense with the impulse limits and institute a 
weight limit. After all other sports have irrational limits (eg. en-
gine displacement for model planes - a good, schnuerle ported .15 
can put out three times the horsepower of an old baffle piston .15).
but things even out in the end (everyone just goes for whatever le-
gal formula that gives the best power). But with no way to check for
the legal reloads, then one must indeed require disassembly.

What am I posting here for anyhow?  9-)








-- 
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Iskandar Taib                          | The only thing worse than Peach ala
Internet: NTAIB@SILVER.UCS.INDIANA.EDU |    Frog is Frog ala Peach
Bitnet:   NTAIB@IUBACS                 !
Newsgroups: rec.models.rockets
From: <Roger.Wilfong@umich.edu>  (Roger Wilfong)
Subject: Re: NARAM SUMMARY????
Organization: UofM Hospitals
Date: Wed, 7 Oct 1992 22:02:00 GMT

In Article <7059@transfer.stratus.com> "cdt@sw.stratus.com (C. D. Tavares)" says:
> In article <19921005162142.Roger.Wilfong@umich.edu>, Roger.Wilfong@umich.edu writes:
> 
> > I fear that holding MR events at a NARAM (especially an east coast NARAM) is
> > asking for problems.  These are the problems that need to be planned for:
> 
> > [four problems]
> 
> > If they think they can pull this off, more power to them.  I just think there
> > are too many things that can go wrong and there are likely to be a lot of
> > angry people yelling at the CD.
The difference between FAI (atleast in the internats) and NAR is that in the 
internats, there is a timing team per contestant or launch pad in NAR contests,
there are usually fewer timers.  I've never been to a free flight contest, but
they have been flying FAI style competition for years - they must have these 
things worked out - I just don't know what they are.  The few times I have 
been to contests that held MR, they were small enough that every one knew 
where they stood or you could easily check.  In my experience, such casual
'checking' at a NARAM id next to impossible.  Of course, east coast contests
tend to be larger and run tighter than the more laid-back mid-west contests 
(the trophy isn't called Mid-West Qualified for nothing), so  maybe they've 
worked it out.
> 
> > > > > 1/2A Cluster Altitude (provisional event)
> > > > I assume that this will be changed if Apogee's 1/4A's are unavailable.
> 
> By the way, this assumption is wrong.  It is clusters of 1/2A's, not
> clusters of 1/4A's.
I'll have to read it again.  I thought it was total impulse of 1/2A.  How 
1/2A's do you get?
From: clj@ksr.com (Chris Jones)
Newsgroups: rec.models.rockets
Subject: Re: Bail-Out
Date: 12 Oct 92 07:16:28 EDT
Reply-To: clj@ksr.com (Chris Jones)
Distribution: rec
Organization: Kendall Square Research Corp
In-reply-to: pfeiffer@nmsu.edu (Joe Pfeiffer)

In article <1992Oct12.030632.274@nmsu.edu>, pfeiffer@nmsu (Joe Pfeiffer) writes:
>Well, we finally went out to launch my son's Bail-Out for the first
>and last time...
>
>Got two launches out of the Bail-Out.  First launch... whoever decided
>an A8-3 was a good minimum for this rocket was crazy.  The motor is
>through right about when the rocket clears the launch rod.  It did
>eject properly before it hit the ground, but it was close.

I recall that B was the minimum level recommended for this rocket.  My son's
first launch was with an A, though (small field and over-cautious dad), and
went just like yours.  Everything seemed to happen in slow motion, and I'd be
surprised if the thing got over 30 feet up.  Bs and Cs after that, and Joe
always got clear (one windy day he got so clear he drifted out of sight, and
this was after my son had put a 12 inch chute on instead of the 24 inch they
provide).
--
Chris Jones    clj@ksr.com
From: jack@rml.UUCP (jack hagerty)
Newsgroups: rec.models.rockets
Subject: Re: Changes to FAQ
Keywords: FAQ
Date: 14 Oct 92 04:45:27 GMT
Reply-To: jack@rml.UUCP (jack hagerty)
Organization: Robotic Midwives, Ltd.

In article <7179@transfer.stratus.com> cdt@sw.stratus.com (C. D. Tavares) writes:
>In article <585@rml.UUCP>, jack@rml.UUCP (jack hagerty) writes:
>> 
>> 2.1.1 Historic - The intensity of interest in camera payloads can be seen by 
>>    how early they were flown. According to Stine (Handbook, 2nd Edition) 
>>    the first documented camera payload was flown by Lewis Dewart in 1961. 
>
>Sorry.  The first documented camera payload was flown decades previous to
>this.  A school group in Scotland formed what it possibly the first model
>rocketry club long before G. Harry Stine "invented" the hobby.  Of course,
>there were no commercial MR motors available, but they used pennywhistle
>fireworks motors to power their creations.  

Well, Chris, as you yourself point out from time-to-time was this really
"model" rocketry (in the current "safety code" defined sense)? OTOH, this 
isn't the Congressional Record we're talking about here.

>The group's advisor designed and flew a camera-bearing rocket with which 
>he took several photos of a nearby loch.  This group was written up in the 
>Model Rocketeer around 1982 or so (I believe the name of the article was 
>"King George VI's Rocketeers") and included photos of the group and of 
>the camera rocket.

And of the photos it took? If you (or anyone else) can find the specific
issue date, I'll be happy to include it as first place.

>> 2.2.2 Due to the greater difficulty of adapting a movie camera, and 
>>relatively easy access of Cinerocs,
>
>Huh??  Do you mean "easy" 20 years ago?

Yes. Also the fact that there are still a few flying even today.


=============================================================================
||Jack Hagerty, Robotic Midwives, Ltd.                 jack@rml.com        ||
||Livermore, CA		           NOTE! New, improved address! ^^^        ||
||(510) 455-1143	            (old ones will still work)             ||
||-------------------------------------------------------------------------||
|| October '92 - Congress overrides President Bush's veto of               ||
||                     the cable industry regulation bill                  ||
|| November '92 - Viacom raises rates (5th time in 5 years)                ||
=============================================================================
Newsgroups: rec.models.rockets
From: <Roger.Wilfong@umich.edu>  (Roger Wilfong)
Subject: Re: NARAM SUMMARY????
Organization: UofM Hospitals
Date: Wed, 7 Oct 1992 22:29:00 GMT

In Article <7060@transfer.stratus.com> "cdt@sw.stratus.com (C. D. Tavares)" says:
>
> > I'm getting the impression that this year was ho-hum, even the guys who went
> > from our club didn't have much to say. The only things I heard about were the
> > Great Estes Prang and some insanity about scaring turtles to death. Oh yeah,
> > they also said it was hot.
> 
> What makes a meet un-ho-hum?  Usually people talk about prangs.  Well, there
> weren't that many impressive prangs this year, except for Mary Roberts' and
> Rich Zarecki's.  We did a whole hell of a lot of flying, a lot of it while
> many of us were still asleep.
  
I've never read a write-up of a contest that I've been to that made it sound
like it was a much fun as it was.  I suspect that that is because MR contests 
are not a spectator events.  They're like golf tournaments - my brother inlaw 
(an avid golfer) watches them in rapt silence, I'm only silent if I don't 
start snoring.  Sure, the things that everyone remembers are the prangs, but 
I've brought other things away from each contest I've been to.  Sometimes 
they have been technical incites, other times they've been incites into 
myself, and yet others have been friendships.  The fun in MR contests is in 
the flying and the fellowship.  
Peter 'all scale' Alway has a comment about flying alone and flying in a 
group, "When you fly in a group, it costs you less and you get more out of 
it.  You get to share the successes and you enjoy the prangs without having 
to buy all of the motors and build/rebuild all of the models."
  
BTW, I tried to get my brother inlaw to switch to 'Rocket Golf' (tm) but he 
just looked at me incredulously.
Newsgroups: rec.models.rockets
From: soc1070                         
Subject: July BPP for ftp
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41    
Organization: University of Minnesota CIS
Date: Fri, 9 Oct 1992 20:35:00 GMT

Since the new issue of the Black Powder Picayune is about to be published,
I have decided to put the last issue on the archive for everyone who
doesn't subscribe. The files are julybpp.sit for the Mac folks and 
julbpp.zip for the Unwashed Heathen of DOS. All of the articles are ascii
files for easy reading. 

----------
Tim Harincar				Kill Your Television.			
Central Minnesota 		
Association of Rocketry		
soc1070@vx.acs.umn.edu		
Newsgroups: rec.models.rockets