HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
Newsgroups: alt.sexual.abuse.recovery
Subject: Re: hello everyone!
From: Gavin.Flower@comp.vuw.ac.nz (Gavin Flower)
Date: Tue, 25 Aug 1992 22:46:05 GMT
Organization: Dept. of Comp. Sci., Victoria Uni. of Wellington, New Zealand.

In article <25AUG199211531797@lims02.lerc.nasa.gov> you write:
>In article <BtJLnx.4Cr@acsu.buffalo.edu>, v130py5w@ubvmsb.cc.buffalo.edu (ReNeE) writes...
[...]
>>I can't really talk to my SO about feelings and thoughts and stuff...I don't
>>know why? It's not because he'd laugh or not listen. He'd probably give
>>me stupid advice like...it's the past forget about it... but I can't blame him.
>>I guess unless they've been there I'm afraid to say anything for fear that 
>>they'd misinterpret or ridicule me... I don't know...does anyone else have this
>>problem.

Unfortunately, this can also be true between a married couple, I know
from experience - even where there are no known sexual abuse issues.


>
>I have had difficulty talking about my "stuff" with others who are not 
>survivors.  Some are very receptive and caring and helpful.  Others just 
>don't want to hear it.  I think that's a reflection of them, not me or my 
>issues.  It's not because I'm "bad", it's that they can't relate to 
>emotional issues.  

You've also got a third category, those people who want to care, but
don't know how to respond.  Also some people attempt to apply
simplistic logic to a situation that has inherent characteristics
that don't respond to logic.  I tend to be very logical, but I'm aware
of many problems were logical analysis can only go so far, or simply
doesn't work - this scary, because I still have to resolve situations
that appear to have NO satisfactory solutions.

Slightly off tangent, but I must say that sometimes, going into an
intellectual mode is a method of survival, but it is important to
realize it is not sufficient in itself, forever.  

>I'd say try talking about some of the "lesser" (dare I say that word) 
>issues to "test the waters".  You may find that having someone that close 
>to whom you can really be who you are, scars and all, is a *great* feeling. 
>I now have four people (including *me*) who really know who I am.  I can be 
>real with them, and not have to waste valuable energy keeping my facade in 
>place.  It's a great feeling, and a release.

Good for you!


[...]
>>Oh well i can tell I'm rambling so I'll shut up and leave you guys until
>>tomorrow!
>> 
>Ramble away!  

Rambling is good for you.


Gavin

-- 
Tomorrow's Society                              | flower_g@kosmos.wcc.govt.nz
    Depends on                                   ----------------------------
Today's Children  - help us raise them properly! 
*******  These comments have no known correlation with dept. policy!  *******
Newsgroups: alt.sexual.abuse.recovery
From: erc@unislc.uucp (Ed Carp)
Subject: Re: Worlds shortest marriage
X-Newsreader: Tin 1.1 PL5
Organization: Unisys Corporation SLC
Date: Thu, 3 Sep 1992 22:47:22 GMT

Crystal Bell (cryst@belay) wrote:

: After she lets Greg abuse Me sexually she allows Greg's brother Dwaine to 
: abuse both herself and Me Neither of which she even tried to do anything 

Um, if she let someone "abuse" her, is it really abuse?  Sounds consenual to
me - was it?  Or was it "pretend consent" so she wouldn't get hurt?

I'm sorry if this sounds a bit harsh - it isn't meant to be...

: about. I Mean I know she was being sexually abused By her father but that
: should logically give her even more of a reason to need to protect me right?

Oh.  Was Dwaine her father?

Unfortunately, if not treated, "most" (whatever that means) abused folks
grow up to be abusers themselves. :(

: anything right? Well let me tell you. Every time she has a problem with a 
: Lover, (oops I mean boyfriend) She calls me and expectss me to make it all 

Same thing, right? :)

: better for her. Well guess what??? after nineteen (ish) years of being a 
: mother to my mother. I finally decided (Actually it was when she told me 
: very proudly that she had gotten married. When she knew I didn't like the
: Guy) He has put her in the hospital at least once. When I got an eviction 
: notice (The last in a string of a million things that went wrong.)
: I decided that It wasn't worth it anymore. I'm not going to give her my new 
: Phone Number. It is also unlisted. And you know I thought I'd hate myself 
: for it and spend (No waste) a lot of money trying to find her again. 
: I feel great!!!!! I have never felt better about myself. and about a 
: decision I made. 

Great!  My mother also trys to make me feel guilty when I don't call her.
(It doesn't work anymore! <grin>)

: P.S. You are all Loved!!!!!!!!!! I mean it. 

All at once?? :) :) :)  Puts Woodstock to *shame*! :)
-- 
Ed Carp, N7EKG     erc@apple.com                801/538-0177
"This is the final task I will ever give you, and it  goes  on  forever.   Act
happy, feel happy, be happy, without a reason in the world. Then you can love,
and do what you will."           -- Dan Millman, "Way Of The Peaceful Warrior"
From: v130py5w@ubvmsb.cc.buffalo.edu (Renee)
Newsgroups: alt.sexual.abuse.recovery
Subject: Re: Doing something for moi
Date: 28 Aug 92 15:30:00 GMT
Distribution: alt
Organization: University at Buffalo
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41

>For me, the greatest pleasures are the small ones, though.  It's taking 
>myself and my inner child out for a hot fudge sundae...just the two of us.  
>It's allowing myself to take time to go to the zoo or the museum.  Or even 
>just down to the park.
> 
>-- Teresa
> 

i like to walk among the trees and talk to them, i like to watch the squirrls,
sometimes i get so absorbed in the trees that i want to cry.....i sit and think
and watch and want to cry......wierd huh?
then there are times i feel totally at peace and happy but i still want to 
cry....

renee
Newsgroups: alt.sexual.abuse.recovery
From: barbaraj@csc.ti.com (Heart Dancer)
Subject: Re: Adults saying NO
Reply-To: barbaraj@csc.ti.com
Organization: Computer Science Lab, Texas Instruments
Date: Tue, 1 Sep 1992 23:31:59 GMT

In article <BtLpFB.HFD.1@cs.cmu.edu>, kram+@SOUTHFORK.EDRC.CMU.EDU (Paul Kram) writes:
>> 
>> Can I be sure a survivor means "Yes" when she says "Yes"?  
>> Does the difficulty with saying "No" carry over to 
>> relationships that you choose to have with another 
>> adult?  (e.g. do you become involved sexually before
>> you really want to?)  Is there a way to ask the
>> Yes/No question that has a better chance of getting
>> a freely-given heartfelt true answer?  

I think it does carry over.   In the past I have gotten involved with partners
too soon.  One thing that I have thought about in my next relationship is the
"90-day game."  In the 90-day game, an agreement is reached up front that there
will be no sexual activity for 90-days.  Both partners are then responsible for
making sure that contract is kept.  It is an artificial, arbitrary boundary,
but I have a hard time sticking to "good intentions" in the heat of the 
moment :-).  The 90-day-game helps to assure that there is no "heat of
the moment" too soon.

Recently, I noticed myself getting pretty involved with someone I had
been in an email friendship.  Email gave way to phone calls.  He
wanted to meet me;  I was increasingly wanting to meet him.  But I had
said early in the friendship that I wanted to wait at least six months
to meet him face-to-face.  The whole thing didn't last six months.  If
I hadn't set the boundary early, I likely would have gotten much more
involved, and the ending (or maybe it's just a hiatus:-) would have
been much more painful for me.

What's important is trust.  In the case of sexual activity, in my
point of view, you don't ask just once, and assume that the survivor
will let you know if things aren't okay.  Remember that most of us
were restrained in some way from making any noise while we were being
sexually abused.  Pay close attention to the survivor's responses, and
keep asking for feedback.

As for the survivor, I think it is really important to take
responsibility for telling the truth to the best of my ability, and to
take the risk to say "no" when something doesn't feel good.  If it
takes a little slow-going in the beginning, then that's what it takes.

BJ

"If I can't dance, I don't want to be part of your revolution."
						Emma Goldman
From: beelewm@wkuvx1.bitnet
Newsgroups: alt.sexual.abuse.recovery
Subject: Am I alone????
Date: 25 Aug 92 19:38:26 GMT
Organization: Western Kentucky University, Bowling Green, KY

I would just like to know if others {male} have been sexually abused by thear 
fathers.  I would just like to know I am not alone in this...

Catch 22
From: root@khijol.UUCP
Newsgroups: alt.sexual.abuse.recovery
Subject: Shields UP, Mr. Worf!
Date: 27 Aug 92 23:31:20 GMT

X-APS-Version: 0.2

Do I dare trust this APS ... and those who are here?  I've seen so many
flames. :-(  You're an abuser, you're an asshole, etc.  Doesn't give one much
confidence... :-(

I'm scared and I hurt and I hate women so much for manipulating me and
hurting me and then laughing at me while I bleed.  I hate women with
their smugness and "I can screw any man I want" attitudes and "you're not
tall enough/rich enough/classy enough" bullshit.

People are selfish cold jerks who only care about themselves.  I think I'll
retire from the human race.

--
To post to a.s.a.r. anonymously, send mail to khijol!anonasar@saturn.upl.com
To make sure you can reach the server, send mail to khijol!ping@saturn.upl.com
   with a valid "Reply-To:" header.
To reach the admin for this service, send mail to erc@apple.com
From: anon-1012@twwells.com (All Me of Us)
Subject: on creativity (was Re: hi macavity)
Organization: Anonymous Posting Service at twwells.com
X-Email-Accepted: yes
Date: Wed, 26 Aug 1992 21:10:30 GMT

Nancy Agnew writes:
>My own preference doesn't include fiction because I've been told
>I lack imagination and creativity.  I don't know whether that is one
>of those things I should ignore because it was a way of putting me
>down, or whether it is simple truth -- after all, not everyone has
>the gifts of creativity and imagination.

It's good to hear you say this, Nancy.  By profession, I am now a
technical writer; I fought this idea tooth and nail for a few years
before I finally realized it was where I belonged and specifically
looked for writer jobs.

Until very recently, I continued to deny that I was a writer or that
I could write.  I've been told for years that I'm incredibly articulate
and can express things clearly; somehow this wasn't a threat, as long
as I didn't have to write any of it down.  And now, in addition to
my writing for a living, I find myself in the middle of a project
where I'm working on writing a book about my life story, the abuse,
multiplicity, and recovery.

I still recoil from the "creative" word, and have trouble believing
I have any imagination, but slowly I'm accepting these parts of me.
The idea of imagination is less scary than the idea of creativity,
but I think it will be a while before I can embrace these qualities
as essential parts of me that actually make my life better.

Thanks for mentioning this part of your story and for giving me
a chance to look more closely at these words.


All Me of Us







--
To use this service, send EMAIL to:
anon-ping@twwells.com  -- test path/get anonymous id
anon-help@twwells.com  -- for a help message
anon-admin@twwells.com -- ANON administrator
anon-0@twwells.com     -- anonymous e-mail to ANON administrator
anon-asar@twwells.com  -- post anonymously to alt.sexual.abuse.recovery
From: anonasar@khijol.UUCP
Newsgroups: alt.sexual.abuse.recovery
Subject: Learning to Fly
Date: 23 Aug 92 18:24:59 GMT

X-APS-Version: 0.2


Hi!  I have been reading a.s.a.r for the past 6 months or so (btw, I have not
been "lurking" - what a loaded word).  I need to post anonymously but I am not
terribly happy about that.  I have not felt at all comftorable with the anon
system so I have remained quiet.  I am glad to be able to try the new service.

Please, let me introduce myself.  I am a thirty three year old man.  I have done
a ton of work over the last 6 years.  This year I am celebrating "The Year of
Doing Things Differently".  I am waking up from a 15 year depression, I left a
good job because my boss was a psychopath (there was no where else to go), I
left a marriage which wasn't working.  It has been amazing!

Not to say that I am done with the tough work, but, for now I am just enjoying
the ride.  I am looking forward to sharing a little about my story and my life
now as well as connecting with the other people on asar.

Nice to meet you all.

The Man with the Child in Eyes.

--
To post to a.s.a.r. anonymously, send mail to khijol!anonasar@saturn.upl.com
To make sure you can reach the server, send mail to khijol!ping@saturn.upl.com
   with a valid "Reply-To:" header.
To reach the admin for this service, send mail to erc@apple.com
From: Gavin.Flower@comp.vuw.ac.nz (Gavin Flower)
Newsgroups: alt.sexual.abuse.recovery
Subject: Re: late at night
Date: 4 Sep 92 13:06:41 GMT
Organization: Dept. of Comp. Sci., Victoria Uni. of Wellington, New Zealand.

In article <BtxvB8.FwF@twwells.com> anon-1201@twwells.com (Jasmyne) writes:
[...]
>it's early in the morning and i'm scared....
>i'm really sad again...and very confused.  I want to call someone to
>talk but i don't want to bother anyone. i've been lurking for
>awhile..just watching, testing if you will. i don't know what i'll say,
>and i don't know if ya'll want to hear but i hope you will.
>
>************Spoiler (i think maybe i don't quite get the meaning of it)
>            *********General Confusion**************
[...]
>i don't want to ramble on.....too late i guess. Please don't reject me,
>i can't handle that in this mood. You say you accept anyone....how about
>someone who doesn't know which way is up at the moment? i could use some
>direction and help, especially when i'm depressed like now
>
>thanks

first *HUGS* - if you want to accept them!

You will find a lot of acceptance and support for you in this group.

Post as much as *you* want to, it helps to get it out of your system.
We'd rather you write what you wanted to say, rather than appologised,
most (all?) people appologise for rambling.

I'm too tired, myself, to say more...


Gavin

-- 
Tomorrow's Society                              | flower_g@kosmos.wcc.govt.nz
    Depends on                                   ----------------------------
Today's Children  - help us raise them properly! 
*******  These comments have no known correlation with dept. policy!  *******
From: sandro@asylum.UUCP (Sandro Wallach)
Newsgroups: alt.sexual.abuse.recovery
Subject: Re: Am I alone????
Date: 26 Aug 92 01:28:19 GMT

In <1992Aug25.143826.2022@wkuvx1.bitnet> beelewm@wkuvx1.bitnet writes:
>I would just like to know if others {male} have been sexually abused
>by their fathers.  I would just like to know I am not alone in
>this...  Catch 22

You're not alone.

I think I was, too, but I'm not really sure.  It's something I'm
working on.  It's such a terrifying concept I really don't want to
believe it.  It also feels anomolous -- for most of my life, he seemed
like a perfect father to me -- my only complaint being that I didn't
get to see him more.  But in recent years I've dug up bits of
extremely painful supressed memories.  Strangely, they feel like they
indict me more than him..  It's not an easy area.  (He also was not
the only authority figure to sexually abuse me; I'm not sure how big
his part was.)

Feel free to ask questions or talk, here or in e-mail.  I, for one,
will listen.  (And reply if you want.)

Hugs if you want them.

	-- sandro (sandro@ELF.com)

PS.  I have some anxiety about posting this under my real name, but
what the fuck.  If you know him or something, do whatever you feel you
have to, and understand the responsibility for what happens is yours,
not mine.  I'm just sick of hiding behind masks.







Newsgroups: alt.sexual.abuse.recovery
From: bill@twwells.com (T. William Wells)
Subject: Re: monthly APS announcement
Date: Tue, 1 Sep 1992 16:34:25 GMT
Organization: None, Mt. Laurel, NJ

I'd like to add a personal comment to my technical comments on
Mr. Carp's announcement. Reading Mr. Carp's posting, it is rather
obvious that, not only is he trying to differentiate his service
from mine (an admirable goal), he is trying to denigrate mine.

The reality is that Mr. Carp believes he has reason to distrust
me, personally, and that is why he created his posting service.
However, instead of showing the honesty of saying that I'm a
controversial individual with a strong personality who has been
accused in this forum of having abused another member of it, he
has resorted to false slurs on the quality of the service I
provide.

You do no one any good by doing this. Tell people the *real*
reasons you believe they should use your system rather than mine.
Or, if you think that you should not, at least stick to properly
presented fact when trying to compare the systems.

---
Bill                            { uunet | decwrl | telesci }!twwells!bill
bill@twwells.com
Newsgroups: alt.sexual.abuse.recovery
From: cloister@milton.u.washington.edu (cloister bell)
Subject: Re: monthly APS announcement
Organization: University of Washington
Date: Thu, 3 Sep 1992 03:22:00 GMT

AARGH!  FRUSTRATION!
take it to *E-MAIL* please, you two.  i don't think anyone on asar has any
misconceptions about this whole situation, and i *don't* think that it needs to
be hashed out on asar in hostile tones, implied or overt.
ahem.  ok.  i feel better now...

-- 
+-------------------------------------------------+---------------------------+
|tactical nuclear sdi stealth nsafood signature.  | cloister@u.washington.edu |
+-------------------------------------------------+---------------------------+
Newsgroups: alt.sexual.abuse.recovery
From: erc@unislc.uucp (Ed Carp)
Subject: APS 0.1 has been released
X-Newsreader: Tin 1.1 PL5
Organization: Unisys Corporation SLC
Date: Thu, 27 Aug 1992 21:34:50 GMT

For those who care, APS 0.1 has been released.  You can find it on alt.sources.
For those who have requested it, the same software has been emailed to you.
-- 
Ed Carp, N7EKG     erc@apple.com                801/538-0177
"This is the final task I will ever give you, and it  goes  on  forever.   Act
happy, feel happy, be happy, without a reason in the world. Then you can love,
and do what you will."           -- Dan Millman, "Way Of The Peaceful Warrior"
From: cloister@milton.u.washington.edu (cloister bell)
Newsgroups: alt.sexual.abuse.recovery
Subject: Re: I'm back....
Date: 3 Sep 92 16:36:48 GMT
Organization: University of Washington

aatresa@lims02.lerc.nasa.gov (Teresa Kline) writes:

>In article <1992Sep2.215919.20495@muddcs.claremont.edu>, uribe@jarthur.claremont.edu (Lydia Uribe) writes...
>>E-hugs to anybody who wants or needs them, and I am glad to be back!
>> 

>Welcome back, Lydia!  I missed you.

me too!  me too!  good to have you back, and it's good to see familiar friends
coming back.  kind of like a happy family reunion for me, as opposed to the
family reunion this year, which i'm sure is going to be stressful and tense,
and which i'm not going to!  but i digress.  it's good to have you back, and
i'm glad your summer went pretty well.
-- 
+-------------------------------------------------+---------------------------+
|tactical nuclear sdi stealth nsafood signature.  | cloister@u.washington.edu |
+-------------------------------------------------+---------------------------+
Newsgroups: alt.sexual.abuse.recovery
From: erc@unislc.uucp (Ed Carp)
Subject: Re: Survivor in denial?
X-Newsreader: Tin 1.1 PL5
Organization: Unisys Corporation SLC
Date: Wed, 2 Sep 1992 22:48:16 GMT

Heart Dancer (barbaraj@sacajawea.csc.ti.com) wrote:

: She does not want to speak with you right now.  If you persist trying to engage
: her in communication, no matter how well intended, you are (1) harrassing her
: and (2) communicating that within your friendship, her wishes are not
: as important as your wishes.  

Ah, but that is easier said than done.  When person A puts up a boundary
against person B, it's easy for person A to justify putting up that barrier.
Current psychological thought maintains that A is justified in doing anything
that A feels appropriate, including ignoring B's feelings about that
particular barrier.  Isn't that telling B that B's feelings are not as important
as A's feelings?  Isn't that turning the whole situation around?  How can one
have a win-win situation without compromise and negotiation?  If A says to
B "that's non-negotiable" A are telling B that A wants to win at B's expense.
A is turning the abusive situation around.

Having played the part of B, I'm here to tell ya that "it ain't that simple!"
A is placing the burden of maintaining the barrier on B, which can be
totally unfair to B.  It is far better for A and B if A sits down with B
and communicate what the hell's going on to B, and why A feels like setting
that particular boundary, giving B a chance to respond to that, and LISTENING
to B's response.  In some cases, B is terribly hurt.  Spend some time
helping B to understand, huh?

Too often we willy-nilly set boundaries that we think are good for us, not
noticing that we hurt others around us.  Sometimes we disguise that disregard
for others as "doing what's good for *me*".  A survivor is very often in the
LEAST capable position to set rational boundaries without talking to a trusted
"other" about it.  But, then again, we all have the right to be irrational,
don't we? :)  Just remember, very few situations in life are non-negotiable.
-- 
Ed Carp, N7EKG     erc@apple.com                801/538-0177
"This is the final task I will ever give you, and it  goes  on  forever.   Act
happy, feel happy, be happy, without a reason in the world. Then you can love,
and do what you will."           -- Dan Millman, "Way Of The Peaceful Warrior"
Newsgroups: alt.sexual.abuse.recovery
From: erc@unislc.uucp (Ed Carp)
Subject: Re: Group appropriate for nonsexual violent abuse recovery?
X-Newsreader: Tin 1.1 PL5
Organization: Unisys Corporation SLC
Date: Sun, 30 Aug 1992 07:29:55 GMT

Enigma (enigma@netcom.Netcom.COM) wrote:

: In article <134862@lll-winken.LLNL.GOV> tibbits@sisal.llnl.gov
: (Patrick Tibbits) writes:
: 
: >No group like alt.bruised-spat-on-and-screamed-at has come to my attention.
: >Is this group appropriate for one who spent his early years in continual 
: >fear of physical violence and verbal abuse?
: 
: Well, it's fine with *me*, for what that's worth.  If everybody else
: thinks it belongs in a separate group, I volunteer to help create it
: and get it started.

I agree with Holly.  Although this *is* alt.SEXUAL.abuse.recovery, the problems
of an abused person are very much the same in many (not all, obviously) respects
regardless of whether that abuse was sexual, physical, emotional, or spiritual.
-- 
Ed Carp, N7EKG     erc@apple.com                801/538-0177
"This is the final task I will ever give you, and it  goes  on  forever.   Act
happy, feel happy, be happy, without a reason in the world. Then you can love,
and do what you will."           -- Dan Millman, "Way Of The Peaceful Warrior"
From: sandro@asylum.UUCP (Sandro Wallach)
Newsgroups: alt.sexual.abuse.recovery
Subject: Re: Talking to a survivor
Date: 27 Aug 92 19:28:35 GMT

scott_silverstein@yccatsmtp.ycc.yale.edu (Scot Silverstein) writes:
>Am I alone in having the feeling that talking to a Survivor
>can leave a person thinking he/she's just traversed a mine field
>covered by barbed wire, barefoot?

Nah, you're not alone.  

This is the second message this month which generalized about
surivivors in a way that made me very uncomfortable, even angry.  It
feels a lot like prejudice to me.  I understand it comes from
ignorance (I think) but I still don't like being grouped and tagged
and judged.

Anyway, I need to say that BEING a survivor, for me, has been a lot
like LIVING in a mine field covered with barbed wire.  I may have made
myself some shoes, but they don't help much when I stumble or step in
the wrong place.  Forgive me if I can't be very sympathetic about your
plight as my [hypothetical] visitor, even through I am grateful that
you do visit.

	-- sandro   (sandro@ELF.com)





Newsgroups: alt.sexual.abuse.recovery