HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: arf@ddsw1.mcs.com (Jack Schmidling)
Subject: Re: Alan Dershowitz on Bosnia
Date: Thu, 8 Oct 1992 13:52:35 GMT
Organization: ddsw1.MCS.COM Contributor, Chicago, IL

 
 Article 48984 (47 more) in talk.politics.mideast:
 From: aaldoubo@copper.denver.colorado.edu (Anisa Alnoor Aldoubosh)
 
 >I came across an interesting newspaper article recently on the conflict in 
 Bosnia, from the most esteemed writer, Alan Dershowitz:
 
         "What's happening in Bosnia is horrible, but it's no Holocaust"
 
 >"The truth is that there is absolutely no comparison between the horrors
 of the Holocaust and the brutality of the Serbs.  Even if every single
 report of Serbian atrocities is credited, the worst we are seeing is the
 wholesale detention of tens of thousands of adults and the retail murder
 of hundreds or perhaps thousands of adults and a lesser number of children.
 
 >"Sometimes, it is done for crass political purposes, such as when Arabs
 compare Israel's relatively benign occupation of the West Bank with the
 horrors of Auschwitz,
 
 It did't take him long to get to exhonerating Israel of its barbarous 
 treatement of Palestinians, did it?   I suspect he would have a hard time 
 convincing the Palestinians in the Israeli torture camps that things are any 
 better that at Auschwitz.
 
 >"Hitler's Holocaust was unique in the history of the civilized world both
 for its scale and for its horrors.  Nothing will ever compare to it, and
 nothing should be compared with it.
 
 Note the nothing will or should.  He is telling us that, no matter how 
 terrible an atrocity is, we (for political reasons) should never draw the 
 comparison.   His motives are pathetically transparent.  And the 
 effectiveness can be measured by the massive amounts of aid we send to Israel 
 every year.
 
 >Maybe Alan is just focusing too much on one side to be able to clearly
 see what the 'conflict' is really about, and how the daily massacres
 and starvation of this certain religious minority is very similar to
 the crimes and atrocities of Nazi Germany.
 
 More likely, you are giving Dershawitz too much credit as an objective 
 commenter.  He is nothing but a promoter of his own brand of hate.
 
 >We shouldn't compare on the same level, but we should not reduce
 the severity of it either because it is not at the same level.
 
 Let's keep in mind the fact that people who question the absolute number of 
 Jews murdered by Hitler, after being smeared and slandered, are reminded that 
 the number really is not the issue.  It is never the issue until some other
 group wants a little pitty... then they are subjected to Dershawitz's 
 pathetic whining.
 
 Remember, he is also the guy who claims that Jonathan Pollard is just a poor 
 misunderstood Jewish boy.
 
 js
From: arens@ISI.EDU (Yigal Arens)
Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast
Subject: Re: DEMANDS PALESTINIAN HUNGER STRIKERS IN ISRAELI PRISONS
Date: 12 Oct 92 23:00:41 GMT
Organization: USC/Information Sciences Institute
In-reply-to: bx573@cleveland.Freenet.Edu's message of 9 Oct 92 23:13:25 GMT

In article <1b53mlINN1m1@usenet.INS.CWRU.Edu> bx573@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Alan H. Stein) writes:
>
> Sounds like what the Arab prisoners are demanding is a hotel and
> country club.  Sounds good to me.

I see in the papers today that the Israeli government is agreeing to
several of the demands and forming a commission to look into the others.
I expect Mr. Stein will now explain to us why he understands the issues
even better than the Israeli Police Minister, yes?
--
Yigal Arens
USC/ISI
arens@isi.edu
Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast
From: adam@clotho.uucp (Adam Shostack)
Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast
Subject: Re: Very Weak Zionist Claims Over Palestine
Date: 13 Oct 92 19:52:45 GMT
Organization: Aiken Computation Lab, Harvard University

In article <1992Oct13.074851.28374@muddcs.claremont.edu> gmeltzne@jarthur.claremont.edu (Manu) writes:
>In article <1992Oct12.220510.8232@trl.oz.au> a.Faris@trl.oz.au  writes:

[Long flame at jake levni deleted]

[Manu's flame of Aziz' flaming style deleted]

Theres a newsgroup specificly for this sort of thing, folks, its
called "alt.flame."  If your post has nothing to do with the middle
east, but only other posters' personalities, ancestry, personal
habits, body odor, etc, please post there.

Have a nice day everyone,

Adam




Adam Shostack 					adam@das.harvard.edu

What a terrible thing to have lost one's .sig.  Or not to have a .sig
at all.  How true that is.
From: aaldoubo@copper.denver.colorado.edu (Anisa Alnoor Aldoubosh)
Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast
Subject: Re: Oink, Oink
Date: 11 Oct 92 07:28:33 GMT
Organization: University of Colorado at Denver

In article <4035@copper.Denver.Colorado.EDU> aaldoubo@copper.denver.colorado.edu (Anisa Alnoor Aldoubosh) writes:
>
>Substantial matters.  Like what?  Re-electing "branches of government"
>that further support the inequalities and injustices of the Al-Sabah
>kingdom?  That do not even address the "voting rights" of women and
>males from elite status?  The future of your country?  It seems that
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

This should read, "males from *non*-elite status.

Just a clarification :-)

Anisa
From: bx573@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Alan H. Stein)
Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast
Subject: Re: casualties during the Intifadah
Date: 13 Oct 1992 16:30:25 GMT
Organization: Case Western Reserve University, Cleveland, OH (USA)
Reply-To: bx573@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Alan H. Stein)
NNTP-Posting-Host: thor.ins.cwru.edu


In a previous article, aaldoubo@copper.denver.colorado.edu (Anisa Alnoor Aldoubosh) says:

>In article <1bdbh6INNieu@usenet.INS.CWRU.Edu> bx573@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Alan H. Stein) writes:
>>
>>Thank you for one of the biggest belly laughs I've had in a long time.
>
>Alan, do you really enjoy the misery of other people?

Interesting, if intentionally loaded, question.  The answer is no.

What makes it interesting is that we've been discussing the misery of
people (Arab refugees) who brought their misery on themselves (which
doesn't make it any less real), have resisted all attempts to ease that
misery, and who have been used as pawns by their own people in a four
decade old war against a state they're trying to destroy.

May I remind you that when the European community recently pledged millions
(I think it was about $80 million) in aid to Palestinian Arabs, it was
accepted with the express condition, insisted upon by Arab leaders, that it
not be used to improve the lives of Arabs in the territories!

The fact that so many Arabs have been killed, by both their own brethren as
well as by Israeli troops defending themselves, is a tragedy.  But if
you're going to assess blame, put that blame where it belongs.  The
violence was started by the Arabs in the territories, and it is perpetuated
by them.  The Israelis don't want it, and not a single additional Arab
would be hurt if the Arabs simply stopped stoning, throwing firebombs and
molotov cocktails, and knifing people in the back.

Unfortunately, the Arab leaders seem to care more about making propaganda
points against Israel than about the welfare of their own people.

>
>Common, where is your sensitivity?  If you do not agree with the sources
>posted, why don't you compile some statistics of your own?  Or is it that
>it doesn't directly affect you or your people to the extent that you have
-- 
bx573@cleveland.freenet.edu----Alan H. Stein----stein@uconnvm.uconn.edu
Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast
From: hernlem@chess.ncsu.EDU (Brad Hernlem)
Subject: Re: Violence mounts in southern Lebanon
Keywords: UPI report
Reply-To: hernlem@chess.ncsu.EDU (Brad Hernlem)
Organization: North Carolina State University
Distribution: talk.politics.mideast
Date: Tue, 13 Oct 1992 14:05:08 GMT

In article <2m0FsB1w163w@peewee>, peewee@infoserv.com (Philip Stromer) writes:
> Thanx for the UPI report, Brad.
> 
> Kol Yisrael also reported on the event, but they do a much more
> objective job of reporting.
> 
> I'm particularly interested in following the UPI, now that the Saudis
> have bought them.  I wonder if they'll ever publish anything from,
> say, Anisa, about Saudi repression of women.  Highly doubtful...

Phil, you're sounding a little like Jack. Replace "Saudis" with
"American Jews" and think about it.  
 
> --Philip Stromer--
> 
> "If there's one thing worse than a right-wing chauvinist book-burner,
>  it's a left-wing feminist one."
> 
> "A liberal is someone who wants to legalize sodomy and ban fireworks."

Brad Hernlem (hernlem@chess.ncsu.EDU)
From: arens@ISI.EDU (Yigal Arens)
Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast
Subject: Re: Arab Jews are ARABS
Date: 7 Oct 92 02:59:19 GMT
	<22554@venera.isi.edu> <1992Oct6.013913.18879@cs.brown.edu>
	<1202@tdat.teradata.COM>
Organization: USC/Information Sciences Institute
In-reply-to: jcg@teradata.com's message of 6 Oct 92 23:26:05 GMT

In article <1202@tdat.teradata.COM> jcg@teradata.com (Jonathan Gingerich) writes:
>
> In article <1992Oct6.013913.18879@cs.brown.edu> hm@cs.brown.edu (Harry Mamaysky) writes:
> >In article <22554@venera.isi.edu>, arens@ISI.EDU (Yigal Arens) writes:
> >|> In article <1992Oct5.154718.3438@cs.brown.edu> hm@cs.brown.edu (Harry Mamaysky) writes:
> >|> ...
> >|> medical or other reasons.  For example, it is not unusual for the IDF to
> >|> have an oversupply of female Jewish soldiers, in which case they will
> >|> notify a substantial number of Jewish women that they are relieved from
> >|> the need to join the IDF.  Such women are *not* denied the benefits
> >|> associated with military service -- unlike Arabs.
> >
> >Of course, this is different. Those who are WILLING to serve do
> >receive whatever privileges others would - if the fact that they are
> >not required to serve is decided by the IDF (i.e. too many female
> >soldiers).
>
> Yes Harry, it is different.  Israel DOES NOT attempt to ascertain whether
> (most) Israeli Gentiles are WILLING to serve.  This is one of Yigal's point.

Nor, for that matter, does Israel attempt to ascertain whether women
released in this manner were willing to serve in the first place -- Jews
in Israel are subject to a draft, willingness to serve notwithstanding.

It is unclear how many Jews would serve if they were not legally
obligated to.  To my knowledge, Arabs had no input into the decision to
release them from the draft.  Nevertheless, they are now being penalized
-- ostensibly -- for not volunteering.

And I say "ostensibly" because most people realize that justifying
differences in state benefits and services to Jews and Arab citizens
based on military service is nothing more than an excuse invented after
the fact.  Nowhere in the laws concerning military service are these
benefits mentioned as contingent on military service (not to mention
simply on eligibility for the draft).  Having exempted Arabs from the
draft (by and large), the distinction between Jews and Arabs is simply
stated more conveniently and less obnoxiously using that term.

Israel is in constant need of such euphemisms.  My personal favorite was
the regulation that specified which Israelis living abroad who wished to
return to Israel were eligible for state aid: "People who if they were
not already citizens of Israel would be eligible for citizenship under
the law of return"...
--
Yigal Arens
USC/ISI
arens@isi.edu
From: gadi@cs.uiuc.edu (Gadi Friedman)
Subject: Israel,Kashmir,Iran
Reply-To: gadi@cs.uiuc.edu
Organization: University of Illinois, Dept. of Comp. Sci., Urbana, IL
Date: Thu, 8 Oct 1992 04:52:27 GMT

---------------------------------------------------------------------
Source	: News India
Date	: Oct 9, 1992
Country	: India


* Iran Radio Confirms Israeli's Role in Kashmir

Special to News India

Washington: The Voice of the Islamic Republic of Iran, in its news
bulletin on September 29 in Persian language, at 0430 GMT said that the
Hezbullah Mujhaddin movement of Kashmir had conveyed to it that men
from MOSSAD, the Israeli intelligence service, had entered India-held
Kashmir.
	The Israelis had disguised as American and European, the report
stated "to crush the Kashmiri movement." The report underlined the
resolve of the Kashmiri terrorists to kidnap or arrest any foreigners
seen in Kashmir, pending investigation.
	Iran, a Muslim fundamentalist nation, is openly supporting
anti-Kashmiri elements and its embassies throughout the world have
become centers of anti-Indian activities, a US intelligence officer,
who provided this information to News India, said on condition of
anonymity.
From: aaldoubo@copper.denver.colorado.edu (Anisa Alnoor Aldoubosh)
Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast
Subject: Re: casualties during the Intifadah
Date: 13 Oct 92 02:50:13 GMT
Organization: University of Colorado at Denver

In article <T70FsB1w163w@peewee> peewee@infoserv.com (Philip Stromer) writes:
>Anisa, my quote of Georgetown prof. Hisham Sharabi comes from p. 148
>of Near East Report, Vol. 35, No. 34, dated 8/26/91.  The author of
>the article is Michael Lewis, AIPAC's Deputy Director of Research
>and Information.

Thank you.

>As an aside, this is another case in point where at least the pro-Israel
>camp gives ACTUAL QUOTES.  The anti-Israel camp, on the other hand, can
>usually only dig up dirt by quoting some despicable self-hating Jew, a la
>Goldfield or Anthony Lewis, and cite him as a "typical" Jew.  Fact is,
>most Jews support Israel and her right to exist.  A few screwballs like
>Lewis and Goldfield hardly represent the Jewish majority.

But I didn't quote "Lewis and Goldfield".  They hardly seem to be an
issue here since we were discussing Hisham Sharabi (which, for some
reason, you did not clarify your previous statement that he is a 'leader'
of the Washington Report while also saying that he is a Georgetown
professor) and Richard Curtis.

I don't know exactly what "Lewis and Goldfield" said, but I am sure you
can support your conclusions that they are anti-Israel.  I also want to
know why any Jew that criticizes or does not support the double standards,
hypocrisy, and seemingly racist policies of the Israeli government is
considered a "despicable self-hating Jew".  I would REALLY like to know!

There are too many Jews who do not support Israel because of this and it
is about TIME that they had the courage and decency to stand up and speak
against these injustices rather than keep their mouths shut and 'blend in'
with the popular crowd.  I understand why this causes friction in the
Jewish communities, but it is no reason to condemn people and to suggest
that they do not represent even a minor voice as Jews.

Thank God for a variance in these viewpoints not because I may or may not
agree with them, but because it brings us human beings closer together
to strive for peace, dignity, human rights, and freedom for all and not
just a select elitis group!
 
Anisa
	[leaving soap box] :-)


		"Israel was almost entirely in the right.
		The Israeli-Arab conflict was as simple as
		a clash between good and evil as existed in
		our imperfect world."
					Alan Dershowitz
					Chutzpah
From: jcg@teradata.com (Jonathan Gingerich)
Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast
Subject: Re: Very Weak Zionist Claims Over Palestine
Date: 7 Oct 92 16:53:43 GMT
Reply-To: jcg@tdat.teradata.com (Jonathan Gingerich)
Organization: Teradata Corp., El Segundo, CA

In article <Dem0TB2w165w@csource.oz.au> gilgamesh@csource.oz.au writes:
>rothberg@bimacs.BITNET (Danny Rothenberg) writes:
>
>> In article <1992Sep30.171402.15999@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu> kshammou@magnus
>> ...
>> There are Jews who work for the PLO (unfortunately), but they are
>> ...
>
>I would hardley categories them as "many", as even within the Neturei Karta
>the vast majority do nothing physical against the sate of Israel... and the N.K
> ...

Your point aside, let's remember that the majority of Palestinians and P.L.O.
do nothing physical against Israel either.

Jon.
From: ehrlich@bimacs.BITNET (Gideon Ehrlich)
Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast
Subject: Re: To Yigal Arens
Date: 8 Oct 92 11:16:01 GMT
Organization: Math department, Bar-Ilan University, Ramat-Gan, ISRAEL

In article <1992Oct6.003514.24058@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu>
kshammou@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (Khaled J Shammout) writes:

>  Thank you Yigal Arens for shedding the TRUTH, and nothing but
> the TRUTH. To be fair and unbiased now a days is very hard; and you
> are unique, Yigal.
> ^^^^^^^^^
>Thank You     Wa Salam             Khaled Shammout

Yigal is not Unique.
 His friends to the Marxist underground MAZPEN are still just like
 him.

Shalom    Gideon       ERETZ   YISRAEL


Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast
From: nabeel@sce.carleton.ca (Nabeel Ghuzlaan)
Subject: Re: Elections in Kuwait
Organization: Carleton University
Date: Wed, 7 Oct 1992 19:21:46 GMT

aaldoubo@copper.denver.colorado.edu (Anisa Alnoor Aldoubosh) writes:

[Deletions to Humanity]

>Thank God the United States supported a war to assist a
>country where equal rights and democracy would be established,
>and where freedom and justice for all would be served.

>Ameen.

>Anisa

   It takes time, Miss Anisa. Do you remember how long it took
the French revolution to ferment? I congratulate the Kuwaiti
people of this fractional victory and wish them blessings to
their struggle in the way of decent dignified life.

** "*Homaata ddiyaari ^alaykom salaamon
       abat an ta_thilla nnofooso lkiraamoo"
** "I_tha shsha^bo yawman araada l*hayaata
         falaa bodda 'an  yastajeeba lqadar"
** "If we lose the time before us,
            the future ignores us,
    we should use it,
    we  could use it,
    -- listen to love."


Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast
From: adam@endor.uucp (Adam Shostack)
Subject: Re: Very Weak arguments by Khaled
Keywords: Syrian Jewry
Organization: Aiken Computation Lab, Harvard University
Date: Thu, 15 Oct 1992 19:57:51 GMT

In article <1992Oct14.173449.23289@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu> kshammou@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (Khaled J Shammout) writes:
>In article: 52347 of talk.politics.mideast,(Philip Stromer) writes:

>>Azis Faris' belief that Syrian Jews have full civil rights is a joke by
>>any western standards.
>>Syrian Jews are *forbidden* from leaving Syria, even to emigrate to a
>^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>     Oh please, there are cruel human rights violations in Israel worse than
>any where in this universe. 

Do tell, Khaled.  Worse than the Chinese killing 2,000 peaceful
pro-democracy protesters?  Worse than the killing and torture of
random Bahai in  Iran?  Worse than the gassing of Kurds in Iraq?
Worse than the enforced sterilization in China?  Worse than the murder
of aid workers in Sudan?

>     Besides, are you implying that the SYRIAN Jews would rather hold placards
>with ANTI-SYRIA propaganda?

Yes, and I'm sure those who have managed to leave and get to the US
and Israel, where they are not persecuted for their religion, do.

>>WRT Palestine, the "Zionists" have as much (if not more) right to the
>>land as anyone else.  They've been there continuously for over 2,000
>>years.

>     Well, the Arabs have been in Palestine for over 5,500 years.

Nonsense.  The arabs migrated to palestine in 760 or so, during a
Jihad.

Adam
 


Adam Shostack 					adam@das.harvard.edu

What a terrible thing to have lost one's .sig.  Or not to have a .sig
at all.  How true that is.
From: peewee@infoserv.com (Philip Stromer)
Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast
Subject: Re: casualties during the Intifadah
Date: Tue, 13 Oct 92 20:10:44 PDT
Distribution: world

        >Anisa writes:
        >Facts are facts, Phil.

We finally agree on something.  The Israelis are offering AUTONOMY
to the Palestinians.  Their own cops, schools, elections (oh no!).
Everything except a militia.  It's easy to understand why Israel
doesn't want to arm the Palestinians.  Israel will protect the
Palestinians from the Arabs, once the Palestinians call off the
Intifada.  They won't (can't?) do that, because it would set off
an even worse intrafada.  

        >We don't see how the 'fair' and 'just' Israeli government
        >is protecting their rights - just allowing the bloodshed to
        >continue

That's why they have undercover units.  They're Mossad agents dressed
up as Arabs.  They catch terrorists, put them on trial, and lock them
up for a long time when they catch them.  They don`t simply lock them
up for being Arabs, much as you'd like to believe that, Anisa.  If
they did, they'd be just as bad as every Arab government, with the
exception of Egypt.

Then some Palestinian terrorist kills an IDF soldier performing his
routine patrol, and you cry foul when the IDF goes hunting for the
bandit.

        >The Israelis could do a lot toward achieving peace between
        >the Palestinians but it isn't in their interest to do so.

Doesn't stopping the settlements in the territories count at all?
How about their lifting the ban on contact with the PLO?  (which
was a mistake, IMO).  What about allowing foreigners to represent
them in the peace negotiations?  These are all tangible, relevant
steps toward peace that Israel has taken in the past few months.

Anisa, why don't the Saudis favor a Palestinian state?  Why do you
kiss their butts, just because they toss $50 million at someone to
appease them?  You'll retort with something like "I hate the Saudis!"
(probably in ALL CAPS to emphasize your point).  But I haven't you
give the Saudis 1/10 the bandwidth you've given Israel.  Ditto for
the rest of your side.

The difference between Israel and the Arab states can be seen in the
recent Cairo earthquake.  Israel has offered technical assistance and
labor.  Human sweat.  The Saudis are giving them $50 million.  It must
be nice to have all that money.  I wonder how much money the Saudis
would've offered had the quake hit Jerusalem.

--Philip Stromer (peewee@infoserv.com)

"Have you ever noticed that the very end of a hot dog looks exactly
like a kitty cat that's walking AWAY from you?"
From: davidba@carmel.technion.ac.il (David Ben_Ami)
Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast
Subject: Re: Has Israel done anything about Iraq yet ???
Date: 15 Oct 92 10:55:07 GMT
Organization: Technion, Israel Inst. of Technology

In article <26836@castle.ed.ac.uk> woody@castle.ed.ac.uk (I Woodrow) writes:
>During the Iraq/Kuwait Gulf conflict last year,  Israel took a lot of persuading
>not to enter the war in retalliation for the Iraqi Scud attacks.  If I remember
>right they said that they would do nothing at the time but WOULD do something
>about it later.

well, this was obviously a lame excuse for inaction.

>
>Question is,  have they done anything yet ?   I'm surprised the Mossad haven't
>sent a hit squad in to try and assassinate Saddam Hussein - maybe even killed
>an innocent Norwegian waiter instead (like when they went chasing Ali Hassan
>Salameh after the attack at the 1972 Olympics).
>

Well, apparently they haven't! 
BTW, Salameh and every other scum who participated in the 1972 Terrorist
attack is now dead. the last one to pass is Atef Bsiso in Paris.
I am not sure that the Mossad did it, (these scums have bunches of
other enemies too) , but I wish it had.

>So, HAVE they done anything about Iraq yet ?
>
>--
> /Ian Woodrow, Computing Service, Uni of Glasgow, GLASGOW G12 8QQ, Scotland \
David.
-- 
=============================================================================
  David Ben-Ami (irc: bigdav)      |   "I can resist anything but Temptation"
  s2780369@Techst02.Technion.Ac.Il |       Oscar Wilde
  davidba@Carmel.Technion.Ac.Il  davidba@Moav.Techniona.Ac.Il