From: spira@panix.com (Greg "Sarcasm Is A Way Of Life" Spira)
Subject: Re: Value of Stats
Date: Wed, 22 Jul 1992 03:45:56 GMT
Organization: Boo!  

In <BrquMr.27J@undergrad.math.waterloo.edu> djohnson@cayley.waterloo.edu (David Johnson) writes:

>I will say this once again because it seems that people don't understand.  I
>think that statistics are very important to show a players ability but baseball
>is a TEAM sport and there are 25 men on a team and a player with a good 
>attitude and a player that works hard and enjoys playing makes the game more
>fun for both himself, his team mates and the fans.  In anything that anyone
>does in life for any reason IF THEY ENJOY WHAT THEY ARE DOING THEY WILL BE 
>BETTER AT DOING THAT.

I don't really buy that.  There can be other motivations, like if you do a
really super job you'll make lots of dough.  Or you'll impress this cute
girl.  Or you'll make yourself look good in public and you just crave
good publicity.  All other things being equal, maybe being happier will
help performance.  But I'm not convinced, and all things are rarely equal.

  A player like Dave Winfield really like to play
>baseball and is a hard worker and thus in turn is a good influence on younger
>inexperienced players.

How do you know that he is?  Winfield was portrayed by the NY media as
someone who was a nothing in the clubhouse and a pretty selfish player
on the field.  He was specifically attacked for not being a good influence on
younger players. I don't really believe that, but I don't have any reason to
believe he has a great attitude either.  Frankly, its hard for me to put 
any stock in any fan's (including mine) evaluation of a player's attitude.
As Tony LaRussa says, "Fans make judgments based on what they think they see
in a player's face, but appearance can be very misleading.  So can those 
who perform emotion for the cameras."
 
Frankly, I don't even trust an insiders' evaluation of a player's attitude.
I remember when J.R. Richard was portrayed as "gutless" for his physical
complaints.  And then he had a stroke.  That's why I don't buy complaints
about Rickey Henderson's "lackdaisical play" - how does anybody else other
than Rickey know whether Rickey is injured or what?

   This makes Dave Winfield a better player than another
>player even if thay have the same numbers because the other player doesn't
>create this good atmosphere in the clubhouse.  Not many teams win if there
>is no winning spirit and dedication to winning in the clubhouse.

The problem is we have a chicken and egg problem.  Maybe the teams have
a "winning spirit" because they're winning?  As Lance Smith has pointed
out numerous times, the same friendly atmosphere which critics charged
resulted in the Twins 1990 last place finish was also credited with helping
them win the World Series last year.

And we have plenty of teams that have won World Series that have clearly not
had great atmospheres.  The 1977-78 Yankees are the best example - they
hated each other, and some of them have indicated that they played to spite 
each other - to prove that they were the best player there.

  Remember
>this is a team sport and the players should play as a team.

I don't really see baseball as a team sport.  There are things which require
teamwork - the double play, pitcher/catcher relationships.  But I just don't
see that what Dan Gladden says in the clubhouse has much to do with what
Kent Hrbek does with a fastball when he's at the plate.  I've never found
any sign that attitudes around me affect my individual performance.


Greg 
-- 
  spira@panix.com       "The one-O delivery to Fisk.  He swings.  Long drive,  
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