HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: DDFr@Midway.UChicago.Edu (David Friedman)
Newsgroups: rec.food.historic
Subject: Re: Cocoa
Date: 8 Jan 93 23:04:44 GMT
Followup-To: rec.food.historic
Organization: University of Chicago Computing Organizations

There is an article on new world cooking as reported about by the early
Spanish in PPC (an English culinary history newsletter). I am afraid I do
not remember the exact cite.
Newsgroups: rec.food.historic
From: "thomas hague" <thomas.hague@canrem.com>
Subject: who came up with the
Reply-To: "thomas hague" <thomas.hague@canrem.com>
Organization: Canada Remote Systems
Distribution: rec
Date: 10 Jan 93 17:42:09 EST

BS>Speaking of primitive soups...

S>My parents (and grandparents) eat (or ate) this horrible concoction
BS>which I always suspected was some sort of medieval "soup" (my
BS>grandparents were mostly Russian or Ukranian.)

BS>It went like this:
BS> 1. Hard-boil some eggs
BS> 3. Sprinkle some chopped fresh onion (yellow onion.) on
    Now, pour boiling water over the mess, maybe add a little
BS> salt and pepper.
BS>Anyone know what this dish is, what it is called, where it originates
Barry Shein

Similarly - from the 14th or 15th century. "Menagier de Paris"
Eggs Royal
Cook Onions,Parboiling for a long time... then fry them;afterwards empty the 
pan in which you have fried eggs so that nothing is left in it, and in it put
water and onions and a quarter part of vinigar, so that the vinigar is a 
quarter of the whole quantity; and boil it and pour it over the eggs.

In todays terms
6 eggs                       2 medium onions peeled
1/3 cup olive oil            3 tbsp vinegar  
1/2 tsp salt

Cover the whole onions with salted water  and parboil for 10 minutes; then 
drain, reserving the onion water.  Part of it will be used in the sauce; the 
rest can be used for whatever.  When the onions have cooled a little, slice
them. Heat olive oil in a large frying pan and fry onions until wilted and
slightly golden. Remove and reserve; add eggs and fry them gently in the same 
oil.  Remove eggs to a serving platter when done.  Then put the onons back in 
the pan with 1/3 of the water in which they were cooked, add vinegar and salt.
Boil for a few minutes then pour over the eggs and serve at once.
Perhaps an early eggs benedict-- Ive tried it and it is interesting to try 
different flavoured vinegars.
Enjoy
Tom

TWH
---
  DeLuxe 1.26b #1565  
--
Canada Remote Systems  - Toronto, Ontario
World's Largest PCBOARD System - 416-629-7000/629-7044
From: jtrott@bcsaic.boeing.com (James Trott)
Newsgroups: rec.food.historic
Subject: Trenchers
Summary: Looking for recipe for trencher
Date: 11 Jan 93 18:50:29 GMT
Distribution: rec.food.historic
Organization: Boeing Computer Services, Seattle

during mideval feasts)?  We are getting ready for such a feast and I'd
like to make it authentic.  Also, if you have other recipes that might
be good to make for a mideval feast, I'd appreciate it.  

Please respond via email to 
   jtrott@atc.boeing.com

-Jim Trott
From: cozzlab@garnet.berkeley.edu ()
Newsgroups: rec.food.historic
Subject: Re: Who came up with the idea...
Date: 5 Jan 1993 01:33:33 GMT
Organization: University of California, Berkeley
Distribution: world
NNTP-Posting-Host: garnet.berkeley.edu

In article <1i9dudINNp61@rave.larc.nasa.gov> otten@icase.edu (John Otten) writes:
>Who came up with the idea of taking tea leaves, and brewing them in hot water?

I don't know for real, but I believe there's some legend about an
ancient Chinese philosoher-king who was sitting in his garden sipping
hot water and some leaves fell into his cup and he decided he liked
it better that way.

What were tea bushes doing in his garden?  Well, they're a species of
camellia....

Why was he drinking hot water?  Beats me.  To keep warm?  Possibly.  Because
he knew boiling the water would kill any creeping crud that might've
gotten into it?  Not likely.  But the long-established habit of drinking
tea instead of plain water has saved China a lot of plagues.

Dorothy J. Heydt
UC Berkeley
cozzlab@garnet.berkeley.edu

Disclaimer:  UCB and the Cozzarelli lab are not responsible for my
opinions, and in fact I don't think they know I have any.
Newsgroups: rec.food.historic
From: bzs@world.std.com (Barry Shein)
Subject: Re: Who came up with the idea...
Organization: The World
	<8807.9833@stratus.SWDC.Stratus.COM>
Date: Thu, 7 Jan 1993 03:00:08 GMT


Speaking of primitive soups...

My parents (and grandparents) eat (or ate) this horrible concoction
which I always suspected was some sort of medieval "soup" (my
grandparents were mostly Russian or Ukranian.)

It went like this:

	1. Hard-boil some eggs

	2. Put each in a shallow bowl and slice them in the typical
	way one slices a hard boiled egg (o).

	3. Sprinkle some chopped fresh onion (yellow onion.) on
	the sliced eggs, usually copious amounts (say a 2-3 tablespoons.)

	4. Now, pour boiling water over the mess, maybe add a little
	salt and pepper.

	5. Eat it, usually with bread.

The hard yolk kinda breaks down into the soup and the onions infuse a
bit. Ok, it's not horrible, it's just kind of what it sounds like.

Anyone know what this dish is, what it is called, where it originates
from? (I think they called it something like "hard boiled eggs in
water with chopped onions if you want".)

-- 
        -Barry Shein

Software Tool & Die    | bzs@world.std.com          | uunet!world!bzs
Purveyors to the Trade | Voice: 617-739-0202        | Login: 617-739-WRLD
From: rees@qut.edu.au
Newsgroups: rec.food.historic
Subject: Re: Who came up with the idea...
Date: 5 Jan 93 16:44:46 EST
Organization: Queensland University of Technology

Well, the Zen Buddhists also have a legend about the origins of tea. It
says that one of the early Zen patriarchs (I can't remember his name, but he
was chinese, funnily enough) got so annoyed with himself one day when he
fell asleep while meditating, that he grabbed a knife and cut his eyelids
off! Where the skin fell, tea bushes sprouted (so that devout meditators
would never have to cut their eyelids off again, presumably).

Zen literature is full of little wierd anecdotes like this - I think
they are supposed to have some deeper symbolic significance.

Darryl Rees
d.rees@qut.edu.au
From: jboor@ra.cs.umb.edu (Joan Boorstein)
Newsgroups: rec.food.historic
Subject: 16th Century cooking demonstration
Date: 9 Jan 93 09:25:35 GMT
Distribution: na
Organization: University of Massachusetts at Boston, Dept of Math and CS

Tracie Brown will demonstrate the making of Florentine Spinach, Stuffed
Ham in Pastry, and Pears in Spiced Wine in both original and modern
versions.

Sunday January 24, 1993
Smithsonian International Gallery, Washington, D.C. 
(202) 633-9181

This event is free.

Joan Boorstein (jboor@cs.umb.edu)
From: jane@soave.swdc.stratus.com (Jane Beckman)
Newsgroups: rec.food.historic
Subject: Re: Who came up with the idea...
Date: 8 Jan 93 23:01:56 GMT
Organization: Stratus Computer, Inc., San Jose, CA

>The story on digitalis was that some African prince was at school at
>Oxford or Cambridge (UK.) He had some sort of condition but it never

Sounds like an urban legend (as opposed to an Old Wive's
Tale?).  Long before Africans were going anywhere near Europe,
in medieval times, foxglove tea was an old folk remedy for
heart palpitations.  (Likewise they used a poisonous bulb,
autumn crocus -_Colchicum_- for gout.  Very recently,
colchicine has been isolated for use in treating gout.) 
>
>Nightshade, btw, is a member of the belladona family (I forget the
>chemical name of the drug but something so awfully obvious I'm afraid
>I will get it wrong, strychnine??) as are potatos, tomatos and

Since the scientific name of belladona is "Atropa belladona,"
I would suspect the active principle is atropine.

--
  Jilara   [jane@swdc.stratus.com]

"Every now and then, a big rock falls out of the sky, and everyone has 
a *very bad* day."  --from the PBS "Dinosaurs" special.
Newsgroups: rec.food.historic
From: julie@eddie.jpl.nasa.gov (Julie Kangas)
Subject: Re: Who came up with the idea...
Organization: Jet Propulsion Laboratory, Pasadena, CA
Date: Thu, 7 Jan 1993 20:35:13 GMT

In article <1ii2n9INN6sj@gazette.bcm.tmc.edu> pburch@roc.mbcr.bcm.tmc.edu (Paula Burch) writes:
>
>In article <1993Jan5.182158.29141@llyene.jpl.nasa.gov>, julie@eddie.jpl.nasa.gov (Julie Kangas) writes:
>> 
>> In Europe, people drank beer instead of the local water.  It is much 
>> healthier to drink beer than questionable water (beer is boiled plus 
>> the alcohol kills most disease-causing bugs).  
>
>Nope, beer has too little alcohol to kill a lot of nasties. It's the low pH
>that does them in.

It doesn't kill them on contact, but the fact that it contains it
during fermentation helps prevent others bugs from entering it.
That and it's low(? maybe high) pH keeps it from harboring germs
that make you sick.  

>
>You can't live on strong brew as a substitute for water, you know. It
>dehydrates you more than its water content can make up for. Only a
>"small" beer can substitute for water as a beverage.

You can't live on wine that way, but many beers are not very strong.
I would imagine people could use it in small amounts (not getting 
drunk on it) at mealtimes and not have a problem (it's also a good
food).  But I'm just guessing.  Does any one have references on how 
often mediveal people drank beer or water?  

Julie
DISCLAIMER:  All opinions here belong to my cat and no one else
From: cmr@cvedc.prime.com (Chesley Reyburn)
Newsgroups: rec.food.historic
Subject: Re: Who came up with the idea...
Date: 6 Jan 93 21:12:46 GMT
Article-I.D.: cvedc.1993Jan6.211246.4816
Organization: Computervision R&D, Beaverton OR

otten@icase.edu (John Otten) writes:

>Who came up with the idea of taking tea leaves, and brewing them in hot water?

Yeah, that happened AFTER someone else decided to FERMENT them!

Chesley Reyburn  cmr@cvedc.prime.com
From: tip@lead.aichem.arizona.edu (Tom Perigrin)
Newsgroups: rec.food.historic
Subject: Re: Who came up with the idea...
Date: 8 Jan 93 06:45:20 GMT
Organization: University of Arizona UNIX Users Group

In article <1i9dudINNp61@rave.larc.nasa.gov> otten@icase.edu (John Otten) writes:
>Who came up with the idea of taking tea leaves, and brewing them in hot water?
>How long ago did it happen? What were the circumstances?

The originator of the cheering cup of brewed beverage was a Chinese
gentleman by the name of Ko Pa Tee.  In honor of his discovery
the Emperor of China named the brew after him.   Linguistic drift
has changed the name to 'Cuppa Tea'.
From: pburch@roc.mbcr.bcm.tmc.edu (Paula Burch)
Newsgroups: rec.food.historic
Subject: Re: Who came up with the idea...
Date: 7 Jan 1993 20:10:17 GMT
Organization: Baylor College of Medicine, Houston, Tx
Distribution: world
NNTP-Posting-Host: roc.mbcr.bcm.tmc.edu
Originator: pburch@roc.mbcr.bcm.tmc.edu


In article <1993Jan5.182158.29141@llyene.jpl.nasa.gov>, julie@eddie.jpl.nasa.gov (Julie Kangas) writes:
> 
> In Europe, people drank beer instead of the local water.  It is much 
> healthier to drink beer than questionable water (beer is boiled plus 
> the alcohol kills most disease-causing bugs).  

Nope, beer has too little alcohol to kill a lot of nasties. It's the low pH
that does them in.

You can't live on strong brew as a substitute for water, you know. It
dehydrates you more than its water content can make up for. Only a
"small" beer can substitute for water as a beverage.

Paula Burch
pburch@bcm.tmc.edu
Newsgroups: rec.food.historic
From: Pat.Churchill@bbs.actrix.gen.nz
Subject: Food in History
Organization: Actrix Information Exchange
Date: Thu, 7 Jan 1993 08:36:13 GMT


Thanks to those who offered to help me track down Food in History, by
Reay Tannahill when I was told it was out of print.  The bookstore rang
back just before Christmas to say they had a copy for me - just in
time for Santa SO to go and pick it up :-)  What with that and the
mortar and pestle, I had a good Christmas haul...

-- 
| The floggings will continue until morale improves
| Pat.Churchill@bbs.actrix.gen.nz (Pat Churchill, Wellington, New Zealand)
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Newsgroups: rec.food.historic
From: julie@eddie.jpl.nasa.gov (Julie Kangas)
Subject: Re: Who came up with the idea...
Organization: Jet Propulsion Laboratory, Pasadena, CA
Date: Tue, 5 Jan 1993 18:21:58 GMT

In article <1993Jan5.173756.6765@jhunix.hcf.jhu.edu> velde2@jhunix.hcf.jhu.edu (Francois Velde) writes:
>In article <1iaohdINNl3k@agate.berkeley.edu> cozzlab@garnet.berkeley.edu () writes:
>>
>>Why was he drinking hot water?  Beats me.  To keep warm?  Possibly.  Because
>>he knew boiling the water would kill any creeping crud that might've
>>gotten into it?  Not likely.  But the long-established habit of drinking
>>tea instead of plain water has saved China a lot of plagues.
>
>Why not likely? That "long-established habit" did not fortuitously save lives.
>It is quite plausible that this habit was adopted, even before the adjunction 
>of tea, for precisely that purpose. And to this day the Chinese do not drink 
>their water without boiling it first. 

We know now that boiled water is healthier than non-boiled water, 
and we know why, but it wouldn't be known a priori, especially when 
people did not know the causes of disease.  (What!  Little bugs I can't 
see in my water!  Lock this madman up!! :)

In Europe, people drank beer instead of the local water.  It is much 
healthier to drink beer than questionable water (beer is boiled plus 
the alcohol kills most disease-causing bugs).  But I really doubt that 
people started drinking beer or tea *because* they knew the water to be bad.  
But I'll bet the correlation between drinking beer or tea and not getting sick 
or dying was made real quick.  Maybe even some people realized that it was 
boiling the water that was the key step, but it was probably realized after
the fact.


Julie
DISCLAIMER:  All opinions here belong to my cat and no one else
Newsgroups: rec.food.historic
From: julie@eddie.jpl.nasa.gov (Julie Kangas)
Subject: Re: Who came up with the idea...
Organization: Jet Propulsion Laboratory, Pasadena, CA
Date: Wed, 6 Jan 1993 21:54:19 GMT

In article <BZS.93Jan6162239@world.std.com> bzs@world.std.com (Barry Shein) writes:
>
>From: julie@eddie.jpl.nasa.gov (Julie Kangas)
>>Maybe I didn't say things clearly enough.  I think people very
>>quickly picked up connections between a process or an ingredient
>>and the fact that it prevents a disease.  But this connection
>>was made after the fact.  That is, no one sat down and said
>>"I'll be the first person ever to boil water.  This will keep
>>me healthy."  People were boiling water for some other reason
>>and quickly noticed that it kept you healthy.
>
>Yes, I agree. Then again, one could argue that it was the germ theory
>which was after the fact, usually attributed to whatsisname noticing
>that cowmaids rarely got smallpox and attributing it to inoculation
>with cowpox (tho this was actually a regular practice almost 1,000 yrs
>before in the Near East), and then Pasteur et al figuring out the
>details of why that worked later.

I agree too :)  Like people keeping a small amount of bread from
the last baking for the next baking.  Without it, the bread may not
rise.  Or brewers using a small amount of finished beer to 
innoculate the new batch.  We know now that about yeast but that 
didn't stop people from using it in the past.  You can certainly use 
things -- yeast, willow bark, anti-bacterials -- without knowing why 
it works, what it's doing, or even what's in it.

>Most of our medical theory explains effects we already knew worked, we
>just didn't quite understand why, and perhaps enhanced the effect by
>purification or other methods like acetylating or methylating a drug
>to increase its potency which works for morphine/heroin and
>salicylate/aspirin and a zillion other drugs which derive originally
>from vegetable and other sources.

I'm always amazed by how much of our medicine does come from plant
sources.  Maybe I shouldn't be though.  Each plant species will have
different chemical makeups and have the potential to create a 
reaction in our bodies.  If we get lucky it cures something.
If we're not lucky we're worse off than before.  (If we have
neutral luck then we get lunch :)

Many plants labelled as posionous, such as nightshade, were
used as medicine (and posion) in the past.  I believe that
digitalis was originally found in nightshade.  But it had
to be synthesized because the amount of the drug varies
from plant to plant and a small overdose is lethal.

I hear some researchers are observing gorillas (or chimps, 
I forget) and are looking carefully at what they eat when they're
sick.  They definitely hunt for plants other than what they
normally eat and it seems to help them.

Julie
DISCLAIMER:  All opinions here belong to my cat and no one else
Newsgroups: rec.food.historic
From: julie@eddie.jpl.nasa.gov (Julie Kangas)
Subject: Re: Who came up with the idea...
Organization: Jet Propulsion Laboratory, Pasadena, CA
Date: Thu, 7 Jan 1993 16:45:10 GMT

In article <1993Jan7.091630.1454@hemlock.cray.com> dadams@cray.com writes:
> julie@eddie.jpl.nasa.gov (Julie Kangas) writes:
>
>|Many plants labelled as posionous, such as nightshade, were
>|used as medicine (and posion) in the past.  I believe that
>|digitalis was originally found in nightshade.  But it had
>                                   ^^^^^^^^^^
>
>Uh, isn't that foxglove?

Oh drat.  Insert foot into mouth.  

Julie
DISCLAIMER:  All opinions here belong to my cat and no one else
From: otten@icase.edu (John Otten)
Newsgroups: rec.food.historic
Subject: Who came up with the idea...
Date: 4 Jan 1993 13:26:37 GMT
Organization: ICASE/NASA Langley
Distribution: world
NNTP-Posting-Host: dolphin.icase.edu

Who came up with the idea of taking tea leaves, and brewing them in hot water?
How long ago did it happen? What were the circumstances?
For that matter, who came up with the idea of taking beans from the coffee plant,
roasting them, then grinding them and soaking them in hot water?

Tea and coffee are items that are steeped (pun intended) in many of our world's
cultures. But how did the idea of making them ever start?

John
otten@icase.edu
From: jane@soave.swdc.stratus.com (Jane Beckman)
Newsgroups: rec.food.historic
Subject: Re: Who came up with the idea...
Date: 7 Jan 93 19:54:37 GMT
Organization: Stratus Computer, Inc., San Jose, CA

>Many plants labelled as posionous, such as nightshade, were
>used as medicine (and posion) in the past.  I believe that
>digitalis was originally found in nightshade.  But it had
>to be synthesized because the amount of the drug varies
>from plant to plant and a small overdose is lethal.

It's from Foxglove.  And until recently, it was, indeed,
extracted from foxglove, under laboratory conditions.  The
antidote, by the way, to digitalis, comes from another
poisonous plant: blue monkshood (aconite).  

Folks are still experimenting with what mushrooms are edible.
If you read mushroom guides, they say things like "no reported
cases of poisoning, but edibility unknown" or "unpleasant
tasting, but no ill effects reported."  And the poisonous ones
are definitely noted because they killed someone, or made some 
folks deathly ill, etc., and that was recorded somewhere. 

--
  Jilara   [jane@swdc.stratus.com]

"Every now and then, a big rock falls out of the sky, and everyone has 
a *very bad* day."  --from the PBS "Dinosaurs" special.
Newsgroups: rec.food.historic
From: amo@cbnews.cb.att.com (arlene.m.osborne)
Subject: Re: Who came up with the idea...
Organization: AT&T
Distribution: usa
Date: Wed, 6 Jan 1993 19:11:54 GMT

In article <1993Jan5.182158.29141@llyene.jpl.nasa.gov>, julie@eddie.jpl.nasa.gov (Julie Kangas) writes:
> 
> In Europe, people drank beer instead of the local water.  It is much 
> healthier to drink beer than questionable water (beer is boiled plus 
> the alcohol kills most disease-causing bugs).  But I really doubt that 
> people started drinking beer or tea *because* they knew the water to be bad.  
> But I'll bet the correlation between drinking beer or tea and not getting sick
> or dying was made real quick.  Maybe even some people realized that it was 
> boiling the water that was the key step, but it was probably realized after
> the fact.


In her book "How I went to Africa with Bogart and Huston and nearly lost
my mind" (or something similar), Kathryn Hepburn tells of how she
learned to drink alcohol.

Seems they were making the African Queen and every night Bogie and Houston
would drink whiskey and get roaring drunk.  Kathryn, a teetotaler, didn't
drink.  She and many other non-drinking members of the film crew got
a really good case of dysentary.  Then they realized that the only reason
Bogie and Houston never got sick was because they drank every night,
so Hepburn took to the bottle with them, and wasn't sick for the
rest of the time they were there.  Great story.

Newsgroups: rec.food.historic
From: hrubin@pop.stat.purdue.edu (Herman Rubin)
Subject: Re: Who came up with the idea...
Organization: Purdue University Statistics Department
Date: Mon, 4 Jan 1993 19:14:24 GMT

In article <1i9dudINNp61@rave.larc.nasa.gov> otten@icase.edu (John Otten) writes:
>Who came up with the idea of taking tea leaves, and brewing them in hot water?
>How long ago did it happen? What were the circumstances?
>For that matter, who came up with the idea of taking beans from the coffee plant,
>roasting them, then grinding them and soaking them in hot water?

>Tea and coffee are items that are steeped (pun intended) in many of our world's
>cultures. But how did the idea of making them ever start?

Tea is lost in antiquity, and the legend that some leaves fell into boiling
water may very well be correct.

On the other hand, coffee is quite recent.  In the middle ages, I do not
remember the precise century, an Arab trader in Ethiopia observed his
donkeys acting high, and traced this to their eating the beans of the
coffee plant.  The rest was discovered by experimentation.
-- 
Herman Rubin, Dept. of Statistics, Purdue Univ., West Lafayette IN47907-1399
Phone: (317)494-6054
hrubin@snap.stat.purdue.edu (Internet, bitnet)  
{purdue,pur-ee}!snap.stat!hrubin(UUCP)
From: tip@lead.aichem.arizona.edu (Tom Perigrin)
Newsgroups: rec.food.historic
Subject: Re: Cocoa
Date: 8 Jan 93 06:38:26 GMT
Organization: A.I. Chem Lab, University of Arizona

[Plea for precolumbian cocoa recipie left out by cheap newsreader]

Try Jeff Smith, "The Frugal Gourmet Cooks American".
Newsgroups: rec.food.historic
From: velde2@jhunix.hcf.jhu.edu (Francois Velde)
Subject: Re: Who came up with the idea...
Organization: HAC - Johns Hopkins University, Baltimore
Date: Tue, 5 Jan 1993 17:37:56 GMT

In article <1iaohdINNl3k@agate.berkeley.edu> cozzlab@garnet.berkeley.edu () writes:
>
>Why was he drinking hot water?  Beats me.  To keep warm?  Possibly.  Because
>he knew boiling the water would kill any creeping crud that might've
>gotten into it?  Not likely.  But the long-established habit of drinking
>tea instead of plain water has saved China a lot of plagues.

Why not likely? That "long-established habit" did not fortuitously save lives.
It is quite plausible that this habit was adopted, even before the adjunction 
of tea, for precisely that purpose. And to this day the Chinese do not drink 
their water without boiling it first. 


-- 

	Francois Velde