From: JOHN_DONAT@CS-LP1.Prime.COM (John Donat CSE 312-641-3450)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.prime
Subject: Re: Source
Date: 27 Jul 92 21:15:00 GMT
Reply-To: Info-Prime@Blx-A.Prime.COM

To:   Info-Prime@Blx-A.Prime.COM
Date: Mon, 27 Jul 1992 20:22:57 GMT
From: sam@ms.uky.edu (Mike Mills)
Organization: University Of Kentucky, Dept. of Math Sciences
Subject: Re: Source
Reply-To: Info-Prime@Blx-A.Prime.COM

ccai!grover@skybridge.SCL.CWRU.Edu (grover davidson) writes:

>>
>> Barry Gorman brought up a good point in asking for Prime to release the
>> source code to the 'C' Libraries.
>> I think we need to start a major stink to get Prime to release all source code
>> for Primos, libraries, utilities, compilers, etc.  If they aren't planning
>> on selling any more machines, why not?  I may need to update primos - I have
>> a source license - but I may need to update products that rely on Primos for
>> which source hasn't been being released (DRM for one).    I need that source
>> code, and it may make a difference for all of us that will be running some
>> part of our business on a Prime for several years yet.
>> I also want the source code for PI, or at the very least have source code
>> to PI put into a trust account that if it is sold, axed, or not supported
>> by ComputerVision that it would be available from that trust to licensees.
>> Mike O'Rear, working at but not speaking for, USC.
>>
>>
>This makes several assumptions.
>1) Everyone who gets the source will be qualified to change it. keep in mind
>that there WILL be shops that will change the source, break the system, and
>then call Prime. You can put whatever disclaimers in the source that you
>want, but someone will do this.


Who says Prime has to answer the call?


>2) There will need to be a central group that will release patches to the
>operating system, just as Prime does today. Otherwise you will have alot
>people who will publish this fix and that fix without being certain that
>it doesn't break anything else.

Thats fine if there is a central group.  But that shouldn't prevent others
from making local changes to their own system!

>3) PI is still a very viable commercial product. I would seriously doubt
>that until this avenue is explored completely, Prime will release any
>of the source code. And even then, there may still be some Pick stuff in
>the source code that prevents it from being released to the public.

>4) The 'C' compiler/libraries. see 1 & 2 above. VERY few people are able
>to work on compilers.

The libraries are NOT part of the compiler.  You don't have to know how to
write a compiler to write a library.  In any case, not releasing sources
simply because (in your opinion) not many people would be able to make
changes to it is ridiculous.

>These are some great ideas, but make sure that there is a structure to
>the system. Is someone willing to take over 'ownership' and maintain,
>test, and distribute the code? Is Prime going to be unable to do this
>in the future? How far off in the future? And util that time, how much
>support is Prime going to provide? Will it be business as usual for the next
>several years?


>--
>Grover Davidson II               | The opinions expressed here are solely mine
>Conley, Canitano, & Assoc., Inc. | and in no way reflect any opinions or
>voice: 216-831-6240              | policies of my employer, even if they may
>internet: grover@ccai.clv.oh.us  | agree with them, and especially if they
>or grover@skybridge.scl.cwru.edu | don't agree with them.


This is incredible.  Unix has survived for years, with varying sources for all
the different flavors in the hands of many different people!

If Prime will no longer be supporting the OS, then the people who own them
have EVERY RIGHT to COMPLETE sources in order to fix bugs and keep the system
from becoming obsolete overnight.

I resent this sort of hand holding that says "We don't trust you to make changes
to YOUR OWN MACHINE, so we're not going to give you the sources with which to
cripple yourself."

Flame off.


--
--Mike Mills              E-Mail:  sam@ms.uky.edu, {rutgers, uunet}!ukma!sam
--UK Math Sciences Dept.                  mike@ukpr.uky.edu
--(606) 257-1429 (work) 263-0721 (home)

--- Reply by JOHN_DONAT :

Mike,

Whatever gave you the idea that Prime will not be supporting Primos, et
al?  I work for PrimeService (in the field), and all the stuff that we are
getting from the region indicates that we (PrimeService) has and will
continue to support and fix and upgrade Primos.  Honestly, I do not know
how long, but I can bet it will be in the years timeframe instead of
months.

Again (and again) Primos upgrades and fixes have for quite a while come
from PrimeService, not the CSBU.  There will also, as far as I know, be
Engineering people in P/S for serious engineering problems (just as it is
now).

Please do not make assumptions or jump to conclusions when this silliness
is still only 3 working days old.


                                               John E. Donat
                                     Customer Service Engineer
                                         Chicago Branch
The opinions expressed here are DEFINATELY not those of my employer!!!!!!
etcetera, etcetera, etcetera......