HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: bskendig@netcom.com (Brian Kendig)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.mac.hardware,comp.sys.mac.misc
Subject: Information from MacWeek about October 19 hardware releases
Date: 16 Oct 92 02:03:22 GMT
Organization: Starfleet Headquarters: San Francisco

Here's some information from MacWeek (12 October 1992 and previous
issues) on the new Macintosh hardware due out on Monday, October 19.
Don't treat this as gospel; it's of course subject to change, typoes,
and men in blue suits.  Prices given are suggested retail only; street
prices will probably be lower.

IIvi:		030@16.  Not sold in the United States.

IIvx:		030@32, 32k cache, FPU, 1 PDS slot, 3 NuBus slots.
		4/80 - $2949.  5/80/CD - $3219.  4/230 - $3319.

Powerbook 160:	030@25, 4-bit supertwist, 8-bit color video out.
		4/40 - $2429.  4/80 - $2789.  4/120 - $3149.

Powerbook 180:	030@33, FPU, 4-bit active matrix, 8-bit color video out.
		4/80 - $3869.  4/120 - $4229.

Duo 210:	030@25, 4-bit supertwist, no internal floppy.
		4/80-@ $2249.

Duo 230:	030@33, 4-bit supertwist, no internal floppy.
		4/80 - $2609.  4/120 - $2969.

Duo Dock:	2 NuBus slots, internal floppy, 8-bit color out, ports.
		Optional hard drive and FPU.
		$1079

Duo MiniDock:	8-bit color video out, ports.
		$589

(The docks will not be available on Monday, and maybe not even for
 three months or so, because they haven't passed FCC tests yet.)

14-inch Color Display: $589.  (640x480, swivel base, replaces current 13")

PowerBook Express Modem: 14.4k data, 9.6k send/receive fax, V.42, V.42bis,
		MNP 2-5, Extended Hayes, Fax group 3.
		$319 (for the PowerBook 160 & 180 and Duos only).


-- 
_/_/_/  Brian Kendig                             Je ne suis fait comme aucun
 _/_/  bskendig@netcom.com                de ceux que j'ai vus; j'ose croire
  _/                            n'etre fait comme aucun de ceux qui existent.
        "Sex is DEATH!"      Si je ne vaux pas mieux, au moins je suis autre.
         -- Barbara Bush                                         -- Rousseau
From: peirce@outpost.SF-Bay.org (Michael Peirce)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.mac.hardware
Subject: Re: 640 x 480 on a 16" monitor
Date: 8 Oct 92 18:21:25 GMT
Article-I.D.: outpost.D2150035.fjf14a
Reply-To: peirce@outpost.SF-Bay.org (Michael Peirce)
Organization: Peirce Software
X-Mailer: uAccess - Macintosh Release: 1.6v1


In article <1992Oct08.005446.943@eng.umd.edu> (comp.sys.mac.hardware), russotto@eng.umd.edu (Matthew T. Russotto) writes:
> In article <1992Oct7.140546.24961@mailer.cc.fsu.edu> sloderb@iris1.sb.fsu.edu (Mike Sloderbeck) writes:
> >For a friend who doesn't see very well:
> >
> >On his FX with 8-24 GC card and Apple 16" color monitor,
> >Is there a way we can force it to display 640 x 480 resolution
> >on the 16" monitor?
> 
> No.  Your best bet would be to sell or trade the Apple for a
> multiscan monitor like the Sony 1604 or E-Machines T16 II, both of
> which can do that.

I have a Sony 1604 (trinitron & MultiScan) and it will run as either 
832x624 or 640 x 480 depending on the adapter used (the adapter just
ground a couple of pins to tell the computer which type of monitor it is).

I'm pretty happy with the monitor.  There is a slow rolling line on
the Sony monitor when my Apple Portrait display is positioned right
next to it.  Also, the color seems off just a little bit - I'm used
to the Apple 13" RGB monitor and Sony isn't quite as good, though
OK once you get used to it.  It helps to use the Std Apple Gamma setting
in the monitors control panel.

--  Michael Peirce      --   peirce@outpost.SF-Bay.org
--  Peirce Software     --   Suite 301, 719 Hibiscus Place
--                      --   San Jose, California USA 95117
--  Makers of...        --   voice: (408) 244-6554 fax: (408) 244-6882
--            SMOOTHIE  --   AppleLink: peirce & America Online: AFC Peirce
From: baltman@prodigal.psych.rochester.edu (Brian Altman)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.mac.hardware
Subject: Re: SI to 25 Mhz: What about the FPU?
Date: 11 Oct 92 17:43:20 GMT
Organization: University of Rochester (Rochester, NY)

OK. I got the socket in and my si works at 20 MHz (with the 40 MHz chip),
but when I put in the 50 MHz chip, a grey screen comes up and thats it.
Nothing else. I tried powering up without any chip and same thing happened.
I assume that the 50 MHz that I got is defective...or maybe there's something 
else? I tried with and without the cache card with the 68882 @ 20MHz. Any
suggestions?

-Brian
From: tsirbasc@ERE.UMontreal.CA (Tsirbas Christos)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.mac.hardware
Subject: Re: Stylewriter Stops shipping..?
Date: 12 Oct 92 16:08:18 GMT
Distribution: world,local
Organization: Universite de Montreal


 heard from a friend that there have been serious
>problems with the Stylewriter by Apple. I have heard
>that because of this, Apple has stopped shipping them
>for two months until they can get the problems fixed.
>Is this so...? I was planning on buying one, so it
>would be a nice thing to know.
_______________________________

Michael

I work for an Apple educational retailer.  We have been told that
there will be no StyleWriters available before the end of December
because of the shortage, and we are backlogged by about 200 orders.
If you have access to educational channels, I would suggest the HP 
Deskwriter. It is not as compact, but it is faster and the price difference
isn't all that big.

Chris Tsirbas
tsirbasc@brise.ere.umontreal.ca
From: hm002b@uhura.cc.rochester.edu (hasit mehta)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.mac.hardware
Subject: Re: MAGIC Modems
Date: 7 Oct 92 15:05:24 GMT
Organization: University of Rochester (Rochester, NY)

In article <92281.101902RXF10@psuvm.psu.edu> <RXF10@psuvm.psu.edu> writes:
>In article <1825@argentic.gts.org>, MATT.HARROP@argentic.gts.org (Matt Harrop)
>says:
>>
>>Does anyone out there have a MAGIC Modem?  They are advertised for about
>>$250 in MacWorld and MacUser.  $250 is great for a V.32bis modem if it's
>>reliable.  Any sugjestions?
>>
>>Thanks in advance,
>>
>>matt.harrop@argentic.gts.org
>>or
>>Matt_Harrop@magicbb.uucp
>>
>>
>>Matt Harrop <MATT.HARROP@argentic.gts.org> OR <MATT.HARROP@argentic.uucp>
>
>    Matt,
>       I bought a Magic v.32bis fax/data modem and have been very
>    happy with it's performance.  The inards are in fact a Zoom
>    product with a generic *plastic* case.  I was able to use it
>    immediately and have not found any incompatabilities.
>       I believe the $250 you saw is correct, however, I went
>    ahead and paid the $39 extra dollars to include the 14.4 fax
>    as well.  The modem came w/ the newest version of FAXstf
>    (which, by the way, is a very nice fax interface) and
>    QuickLink 2.
>       You can also download the zoom 32bis AppleTalk Remote
>    modem file from Magic's BBS.
>
>    If you have any more questions, I'd be happy to reply.
>
>                           A happy customer,
>
>                           Robert Falco
>                           rxf10@psuvm.psu.edu
>                           Training & Multimedia Services
>                           Penn State University
>
MacConnection currently offers the Zoom VFX v.32bis modem with FAX.17 (14.4)
and a Hardware Hnadshaking cable and FAXSTF 2.2.3 and Quick Link II all for
269.00 + 3.00 dollars S&H. Also MacConnection offers a 30day MBG. Ummm my
friend got one about 10 days ago and it pretty good. The only problem is
that we cannot get it to work with his PowerBook145 with a DTE rate above
19,200 however on my SE/30 it works like a charm and I can set the DTE rate
to 57.6k with out any problems. All in all it is a good modem however I like
my ZyXEL better, but it costs more. 
Hasit
BTW-MacConnection's # is 1-800-800-2222
Newsgroups: comp.sys.mac.hardware
From: Steven Lee <shl1@cornell.edu>
Subject: test
Nntp-Posting-User: shl1@cornell.edu
X-Date: Fri, 16 Oct 92 22: 40:31 GMT
Organization: Cornell University
X-Useragent: Nuntius v1.1.1d3
Date: Sat, 17 Oct 1992 02:33:25 GMT

this is a test.
Newsgroups: comp.sys.mac.hardware
From: Jonathan A. Duke <jonathan@hermes.bc.edu>
Subject: Re: Tape Drives
Organization: Boston College
X-Useragent: Nuntius v1.1
Date: Wed, 7 Oct 1992 12:56:11 GMT



Subject: Tape Drives
From: WIS
In article <92281.104703WIS@LIVERPOOL.AC.UK> , WIS@LIVERPOOL.AC.UK writes:
>Simple question! Do tape drives for the Mac usually need device drivers
>loaded into the system file?
>
>(I've just got an Archive Viper 150MB tape drive from a dead Sun and I
>can't get any Mac software to talk to it, so I was just wondering... The
>tape drive does work on other Unix boxes)
>
>From what I know about how SCSI talks to serial access devices, it seems
>to me, that they can be treated as identical as far as software goes.
>
>Any help, suggestions or general info?

Most people use tape drives in conjunction with a backup program such
as Retrospect (from Dantz Development).  Retrospect has the necessary
driver to communicate with a huge variety of tape drives built-in.

There is but one desktop mountable tape drive currently available. 

So, it isn't the normal way to go about dealing with tape by mounting
on the desktop.

Jon
Newsgroups: comp.sys.mac.hardware
From: qman@casbah.acns.nwu.edu (Charles Kuehmann)
Subject: Re: PB 100 as SCSI drive
Followup-To: comp.sys.mac.hardware,comp.sys.mac.system
Organization: Northwestern University
Date: Fri, 16 Oct 1992 13:12:54 GMT

In article <1992Oct15.195410.7951@draper.com>, ddaly@draper.com (Daniel
Cameron Daly) wrote:
> Has anyone had success in using the PB 100 as a SCSI drive for another Mac?
> I am especially interested in cases involving a Mac with an external SCSI
> hard drive and no internal one.  I cannot get files to transfer from the
> desktop Mac SE's external hard drive to the Book, without having the desktop
> Mac crash.  Transfer from the Book's internal hard drive to the desktop's
> external hard drive works fine.  Any success or failure would be of interest.
I have gotten my PB100 to work well as a external HD to my SE/30 although
with a few quirks.  The original SCSI configuration was SE/30 (no int HD) -
GCC 105S ext HD (no internal terminator) - LW IISC ext. terminator.  I
added the terminator inbetween the SE/30 and GCC 105S and the powerbook
cable to the end as stated in the manual.  With the PB100 installed this
worked fine, when I removed the PB100 the mac would give me the "oh shit
somethings wrong" chime.  The only way to get the SE/30 to boot was to
remove the terminator from inbetween the SE/30 and GCC 105S.  I then
decided to simplify the system so I removed the GCC 105S from the external
case added an internal terminator and installed it internal in the SE/30. 
I then set up the SE/30 w/int HD - LW IISC ext terminator - powerbook
cable.  The SE/30 would boot like this but would give me the chime when I
had the PB100 attached.  I removed the ext terminator from the LW IISC and
the system now works fine w/ or w/o PB100 attached although this is not the
configuration given in the manual.  One interesting side note.  One of the
partions on the 105S has had problems with icons for some time now.  When
mounted the icons for this partition appear as generic icons.  The utility
"save-a-BNDL" restores the icons everytime.  And yes I have tried deleting
the desktop files and rebooting but the syptoms return after the next
reboot.  Well to my surprise this little problem disappears when the system
is booted with te PB100 attached. Go figure.
Newsgroups: comp.sys.mac.hardware
From: kanefsky@halcyon.com (Steve Kanefsky)
Subject: Re: DayStar PowercacheDDD
Organization: The 23:00 News and Mail Service
Date: Fri, 16 Oct 1992 15:31:44 GMT

In article <Bw7uI4.Ko7@apollo.hp.com> esteban@apollo.hp.com (Steven Fernandez) writes:
>
>Hi everyone,
>
>I am considering ordering a 50mhz PowerChache. Does anybody have
>a feel for how much faster the new 040 PowerCache will be? I'm 
>wondering if I should just hold out and get the 040 when it comes 
>out. Do they have a no penalty upgrade on this stuff. I called
>Daystar to ask but they put me on hold for too long.

The upgrade deal in effect right now actually makes it *cheaper* to buy
the 50mhz PowerCache and then upgrade to the Turbo '040 than to buy the
Turbo '040 in the first place.  You have to buy by November 1, however,
and you have to upgrade by December 31 1993.  Depending on what kind of
machine you have, you may have to wait a while before the Turbo '040
comes out.  The card itself will be out in early December, most likely,
but the adaptors which are necessary for all machines except the IIci
and Performa 600 (and I suspect the IIvx) won't even start coming out
till next year.  Some machines (like the LC and LCII) which have
adaptors for the '030 PowerCaches right now aren't even under
consideration yet for the Turbo '040 (apparently the LC adaptor will be
difficult if not impossible to do, due to power supply and space
limitations, so they're getting the easy ones out of the way first).

It's hard to say how much faster the Turbo '040 will be than the 50mhz
68030 PowerCache, a rough guess would be 30% faster on CPU-intensive
stuff, perhaps twice as fast on floating-point stuff, and a pretty 
significant increase in video speed as well, if you're running on internal 
video. 

--
Steve Kanefsky
Newsgroups: comp.sys.mac.hardware
From: dchao@en.ecn.purdue.edu (David H Chao)
Subject: For Sale - "original" Mac Classic
Organization: Purdue University Engineering Computer Network
Distribution: usa
Date: Thu, 15 Oct 92 14:30:26 GMT


I have the following Macintosh system and software for sale...


"original" Mac Classic 

    2 meg Memory
    40 meg Hard Drive

    keyboard
    keyboard cable
    mouse
    power cable
    serial cable (for modem or printer)

System Software

    System 6.0.7
    Hypercard "basics"

Applications/Utilities 

    MacWrite 2  (word processor)
    MacDraw 2  (drawing)
    MacPaint  (painting)

    Virex  (virus protection)
    Pyro  (screen saver)

Games

    Tetris  (puzzle game)
    Quarterstaff  (role-playing game)
    
Misc.   

    public domain software  (modem program, games)
    4 blank 3.5" disks
    mouse pad
    computer/keyboard covers
    disk holder  (with 40 disk capacity)


Total asking price:  $750 + shipping  (or best offer)


Everything (except public domain) comes with original disks and original
documentation.  The Mac comes in its original box.

I will ship anywhere in the continental U.S.  I would like to sell everything
in one package, but I will consider selling software individually.

If you are interested, send e-mail to:

dchao@en.ecn.purdue.edu


Thanks.
From: jfw@jfwhome.FUNHOUSE.COM (John F. Woods)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.mac.hardware
Subject: Re: Woz in apple ad?
Date: 14 Oct 92 23:53:36 GMT
Article-I.D.: jfwhome.Bw4yDF.Crz
Organization: Misanthropes-R-Us

In <mike_steiner-121092171244@192.35.50.131> mike_steiner@qm.claris.com (Mike Steiner) writes:
>In article <D2150056.fq05t2@erics.infoserv.com>, erics@infoserv.com (Eric
>S. Smith) wrote:
>> If he "still is" one of the best computer engineers of "all
>> time", what has he engineered lately?
>He doesn't have to engineer anything; he has more money than he can spend.

Well, some people engineer not because they have to, but because they can't
not engineer.  I don't know if Woz is "one of the best computer engineers
of all time", there is, after all, rather stiff competition in that arena,
but he certainly had a remarkable talent for engineering simple, reliable,
and inexpensive circuits with complex functions; not a skill to be sneezed
at.  He needed to be in the right place at the right time, but he had the
right talent to take advantage of it; lots of people were in the right place
at the right time with overpriced, underfunctional equipment (how much is
SWTPC stock worth these days?).
Newsgroups: comp.sys.mac.hardware
From: Sundar_Prasad@mtsg.ubc.ca
Subject: Re: Accelerator for ci?
Organization: Civil Engineering, Univ of BC
Distribution: na
Date: Thu, 8 Oct 1992 01:12:22 GMT

In article <1992Oct7.145012.18731@dartvax.dartmouth.edu>
hades@coos.dartmouth.edu (Hades) writes:
.....
>
>    The on board video of the IIci uses system RAM to store the video
>information. The IIsi does the same thing. Both machines use available
>RAM from bank A for this task. Since on the IIsi, bank A is fixed at 1MB
>there is less likely to be any problems with using all of that for the
>video and putting 4MB in bank B to be used for the system. But in the
>IIci you must put the highest memory in bank A, and if that is 4 4MB
          ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^          
>simms then there can be problems with your computer wrestling with the
>on board video for space within that 16MB. The only effect it might have
>is a slight slow down in video performance.
>

Wrong-a-rama. I quote from TN #176:
'..Banks A and B are interchangeable, i.e. if mixing two sizes of RAM, one
need not fill Bank A with the larger SIMMs. For better performance, use the
smaller SIMMs in Bank A..'

Sundar_Prasad@mtsg.ubc.ca
Univ. of BC, Vancouver, CANADA


Newsgroups: comp.sys.mac.hardware
From: ayh@wdl1.wdl.loral.com (Ann Hopkins)
Subject: Re: 4MB SIMMs installation problems -- LC/cx: works; IIx: doesn't work
Followup-To: comp.sys.mac.hardware
Organization: Loral Aerospace - WDL
Date: Mon, 12 Oct 1992 14:53:09 GMT

In article <STEFF.92Oct7182158@milan.ims.uni-stuttgart.de>,
steff@ims.uni-stuttgart.de (Stefan Momma) wrote:
> 
> 
> 
> G'day,
> 	we are trying to equip a couple of Mac IIx's with more than
> 8MB memory, using 4MB SIMMs. Our local distributor offered SAMSUNG
> SIMMs with the (according to the delivery notice) following model #:
> 
> SAMSUNG KMM584000A-7 9222 SEC. 
> 
> the writing on the chips themselves says:
> 
>         KOREA
>         218Y
>   KM41C4000AJ-7
> 
> ok, so we tried to install the SIMMs in one of the IIx's, and only got
> system errors (the flat accord sound) at startup.
> 
>  We installed 4 4MB SIMMs at a time in bank A -- no success, also
> tried 4 1MB SIMMs in bank A and 4 4MB SIMMs in bank B, in the latter
> case _sometimes_ the 4x1 MB in bank A would be recognized and would
> pass the memory test, but nothing in bank B (i.e. the Finder would
> report 4 MB total memory available).
> 
> Our initial suspicion, that the chips might be bad, was dismissed,
> after a test installation in both a Mac LC and in a Mac IIcx was
> successful.
> 
> My question now:
> Is there something special about the Mac IIx compared with the cx and
> the LC that would make the chips work in the latter two but not in the
> former? Did we do anything fundamentally wrong when installing the
> chips? 
> 
> Apologies, if this is a FAQ ( in this case, a pointer to a c.s.m.h FAQ
> file would also be nice )
> 
> Any helpful advice is highly appreciated. Thank you.
> 
> -- stefan momma
> --

You need System 7 with the free MODE 32 init in place.  Once that is done
set the memory control panel to 32 bit.  Then this should work.

Same problem we had with IICX & SE/30.  If that doesn't work suspect the
hardware.


------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ann Hopkins                                            Senior Systems
Engineer
Loral Aerospace - Western Development Laboratories
3200 Zanker Road, Bldge 280, MS T70, San Jose, CA  95134
408-473-4416
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: roy@adeptsln.cts.com
Newsgroups: comp.sys.mac.hardware
Subject: Re: Cheap Ofoto for old Apple scanners?
Date: 8 Oct 92 02:32:26 GMT
Article-I.D.: adeptsln.1992Oct8.023226.408
Reply-To: roy@adeptsln.cts.com

In article <1992Sep19.080256.23645@morrow.stanford.edu>  
HK.MLR@forsythe.stanford.edu (Mark Rogowsky) writes:
> Is there an upgrade path for old Apple scanner users to get Ofoto
> cheaply? Also, is there a 32-bit clean version of the Apple scanner
> driver/software?
> 
> Post or e-mail as you wish.
> 
> Mark Rogowsky
> rogo@forsythe.stanford.edu
> 
> Not cross posted.

Second Glance has a 32-bit clean PhotoShop plug-in for the Apple One scanner &  
the old 4-bit. Their number is 714 855-2331.

-- 
Roy Lovejoy          | internet:  roy@adeptsln.cts.com
Software Philosopher | AppleLink: adept
Adept Solutions      | CIS:       72447,1447
.....................| dual certified developer: NeXT & Apple ;)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.mac.hardware
Subject: old PCPC II 19" Trinitron monitor
From: Adam.Frix@p18.f20.n226.z1.FIDONET.ORG (Adam Frix)
Date: Thu, 08 Oct 92 02:05:32 EST
Organization: FidoNet node 1:226/20.18 - cmhGate UF Gateway, Columbus OH

my brother has an old Mac II w/PCPC (remember them?) 19" Sony Trinitron
monitor
(and a Jasmine 90 meg HD, all from circa 1987--imagine what _that_ cost new!).
 I know that the Apple-brand Trinitron 13" is self-degaussing on power-up; is
this a standard feature of Trinitron-based displays?

He had large purple spots in each corner one night, and figured it needed
degaussing.  The next night, they were gone.  Self-degaussing display?  There
was no button or removable panel that would indicate a manual degaussing
function.

--Adam--
 
--  
Adam Frix via cmhGate - Net 226 fido<=>uucp gateway Col, OH
UUCP: ...!n8emr!bluemoon!cmhgate!20.18!Adam.Frix
INET: Adam.Frix@p18.f20.n226.z1.FIDONET.ORG
Newsgroups: comp.sys.mac.hardware
From: gurman@umbra.gsfc.nasa.gov (Joseph B. Gurman)
Subject: Re: New life for used internal Powerbook hard disk
Keywords: Powerbook, hard disk
Organization: Goddard Space Flight Center
Date: Sat, 10 Oct 1992 14:42:54 GMT

willcox@urbana.mcd.mot.com (David A Willcox) writes:

>I've discovered that 20Mb is awfully small, and am considering
>replacing my Powerbook's drive with something bigger.

>My question is: what can you do with the 20Mb drive that you pulled
>out?  I'd like to use it inside of my desktop MacII. Heck, the thing is
>small enough that I could probably Scotch tape it to the inside of the
>case somewhere.  But I don't know what kind of connectors or other
>interfaces would needed.  It's just a SCSI drive, after all, but the
>connector must be unusual.

>Has anyone tried doing this?  What did it take?

    I don't know about the 100, but there's no spare room in a 145 or a
170 for another drive.

    MicroTech International (800 325-1895) sells a small enclosure with
power supply for about $120 so you can use the 20, 40, 80 Mbyte drives
you remove as externals. (If you need a 50 Hz/220 V model, you can reach
them at 203 468 6223 or fax 203 467 8124.) Anybody know of any other
outfits that offer similar products? La Cie doesn't.

						Joe Gurman
--
J.B. Gurman / Solar Physics Branch / NASA Goddard Space Flight Center /
Greenbelt MD 20771 USA / gurman@umbra.gsfc.nasa.gov
| Federal employees are prohibited from holding opinions under the Hatch Act.|
| Therefore, any opinions expressed herein are somebody else's.              |
From: jtang@hpsgl1.sgp.hp.com (Jerry TANG)
Date: Tue, 6 Oct 1992 08:44:05 GMT
Subject: PowerBook for sale
Organization: Asia Peripherals Division, HP Singapore
Newsgroups: comp.sys.mac.hardware

Hi there !

I have a PowerBook 170 for sale. Interested parties please email
reply to me.

Configuration.
Macintosh PowerBook 170 4MB RAM / 80 MB HD
ClarisWorks + ADB Mouse (low power version)
And lots of shareware and PD software.
Brand new with original packing and software.

Selling for US$3800 ono.


++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
+ Jerry Tang			Email : jtang@hpsgl1.sgp.hp.com  +
+ Singapore                     Fax : +65-2743431                +
+                               Voice : +65-2792985              +
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Newsgroups: comp.sys.mac.hardware