HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: tomk@netcom.com (Thomas H. Kunich)
Subject: Re: CNF bibliography update (total now 765 papers, 117 patents/appl.).
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services (408 241-9760 guest)
Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1992 01:00:59 GMT

In article <C24B5835131F203349@vms2.uni-c.dk> Dieter Britz <BRITZ@kemi.aau.dk> writes:
>
>Hello fellow searchers for The Truth,
>==============================================================================
>                     COLD NUCLEAR FUSION BIBLIOGRAPHY
>                     ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>                           Additions 19-Nov-1992
>                   Dieter Britz alias britz@kemi.aau.dk
>                     Total no. of journal papers: 765
>
>
>
>------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>Bush RT;                                        Fusion Technol. 22 (1992) 301.
>"A light water excess heat reaction suggests that 'cold fusion' may be
>'alkali-hydrogen fusion'".
>** Bush here outlines, in a qualitative manner, his disavowal of the theory of
>Mills and Farrell (which "is flawed"), and his own theory of how cold fusion
>takes place in a Pd or Ni lattice. A multitude of reactions of the kind p + M1
>==> M2, and d + M1 ==> M2, are possible, where M1 are alkali metals (as well
>as hydrogen isotopes), and M2 are ultrastable (or near-ultrastable) elements
>such as (40)Ca, (4)He, etc. This ultrastability, plus the special conditions
>in a metal hydride/deuteride lattice, is what enables cold fusion. There is
>thus a wide choice of fusion fuels, and the good news is that deuterium is not
>needed. In each case, the resulting high energy is dissipated in a kind of
>anti-Moessbauer effect, due to the rigidity of the metal lattice at these low
>temperatures. FPH were lucky because Li can do it with d. The author's TRM
>model (with Eagleton) is invoked along with all this.
> There is experimental proof. Using a Ni cathode, a Pt anode and 0.57M K2CO3
>as electrolyte, and a plate of a "Ni alloy", excess heat was found, in
>contrast with M&F, whose theory demands light water and a sodium salt (but
>using Ni itself). Rb salts, too, do the trick. The reaction with potassium
>should yield some Ca as the ash, and in fact 14 microgram (about the right
>amount) were found; using a Rb salt, again about the right amount of Sr was
>found (3 microgram). This subrevolution within cnf could have immense economic
>ramifications, writes Bush.                                      Jul-91/Sep-92

Immense economic ramifications is a bit understated, if his results could be
duplicated.

The question is: Is anyone trying to duplicate this work? While I have
my doubts, this at least looks somewhat promising as an avenue of
investigation. Finding calcium ash is pretty interesting.

Newsgroups: sci.physics.fusion
From: terry@asl.dl.nec.com
Subject: Re: Back To The Future <--[huh? you lost me with that title]
Originator: terry@aslws01
Organization: Me.
Date: Wed, 18 Nov 1992 15:42:31 GMT

Hi ya'll,

In article <921117221753_72240.1256_EHL57-1@CompuServe.COM>
Jed Rothwell <72240.1256@compuserve.com> writes:

> Terry Bollinger, who either missed or misses the McCarthy era, asks:

Etc. etc.  A vast improvement in tone, Mr. Rothwell.  I actually got a
several chuckles out of that posting.  You seem to be getting back to your
old pre-conference form.  Whatever that was.

> I may make an ass of myself spouting off untruths...

Hey, NICE quote -- thanks!   :)

> I have answered that particular question many times,
> right here in this forum.

Yeah, sort of.  I have the emails.

> So, to answer your question [whether J. Rothwell has LaRouche connections]:

> Nope. The LaRouche people drive me nuts... I have no business or social
> relationship with them because they make me sick. ... They have, however,
> quoted translations by me, but that is the author's business, not mine.

Excellent!  I am genuinely pleased to hear such a clear denial, and hope
that your taking the time to make it doesn't slow down your vital process
of translation by anything more than, oh, a week or so.

The point about quotes being used in LaRouche literature without consent is
well taken, as they certainly do like to grab other people's text and even
pictures and stick them in their publications without proper authorization.

> ... I wish they [LaRouchians] would leave us alone and go back to supporting
> hot fusion reactors, ..., high temperature superconductors and...
> HEY! Wait a second here... Didn't you say [your company is one of the ones
> that is in] the superconductor business[?]  Perhaps you could help me by
> a little question that you seem to have missed or sidestepped here. What
> are *you* doing in line of business clearly supported by and *abetted* by
> the LaRouche organization? Oh, man, are you in for it!

Oh posh, I'm disappointed -- is that the best you can do?  Here's my version:

> ...and, Mr. Bollinger, we note with great interest that you have several
> times mentioned on this group that you lived practically NEXT DOOR to the
> Louden County home of Lyndon LaRouche himself, and that you travelled up
> and down Route 7 frequently.  And how DO you know so much about their
> style of argumentation, hmmmmm, Mr. Bollinger... UNLESS YOU ARE THEIR
> COVERTLY TRAINED AGENT SENT TO DISRUPT THE INTERNATIONALLY CRITICAL
> TRANSLATIONS TASKS OF OUR NEMESIS AND LIFETIME FOE, JED ROTHWELL!!!

Also, I might note that you probably need to work a bit more on subtlety
in your satirical/political/pesuasive style.  Calling folks like Dieter
Britz coo coo is not exactly a clever persuasion strategy, since it merely
gives others good reason to doubt both your motives and your judgement.

			Have a nice whatever it is you are doing,
			Terry Bollinger

P.S. --	Truce, Mr. Rothwell?  I'll shut up about you if you will try hard
	to stick to "just the facts" and stop going after personalities.

Newsgroups: sci.physics.fusion
From: Bruce_Dunn@mindlink.bc.ca (Bruce Dunn)
Subject: Liquid Helium Prices
Organization: MIND LINK! - British Columbia, Canada
Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1992 16:47:38 GMT

        I am in need of a figure for the cost of liquid helium in ton lots.
Does anyone have such a figure, or failing that a figure for smaller amounts?
The figure should include both the cost of the helium itself, and the cost of
liquifying it (ie. the cost if the gaseous helium were not recovered and
reliquified after liquid helium boiloff).  I presume that liquid helium must
be a commodity item at establishments using large superconducting magnets.



--
Bruce Dunn    Vancouver, Canada   Bruce_Dunn@mindlink.bc.ca
From: pmk@prometheus.UUCP (Paul M. Koloc)
Newsgroups: sci.physics.fusion
Subject: Re: LARSONIAN Physics, NO fusion in Stars
Date: 21 Nov 92 05:33:30 GMT
Reply-To: pmk@prometheus.UUCP (Paul M. Koloc)
Organization: Prometheus II, Ltd.

In article <7600011@hpfcso.FC.HP.COM> rauchfuss@hpfcso.FC.HP.COM (Brian Rauchfuss) writes:
>In sci.physics.fusion, pmk@prometheus.UUCP (Paul M. Koloc) writes:

>If a star is hot enough to allow fusion, would it not just start fusing without
>ignition?  If it is not hot enough, wouldn't it be impossible to ignite, no
>matter how much ball lightning was around?
>BDR

The candidate gas planet would not be initially hot enough to fusion burn 
or ignite a fusion burn, although with time it is conceivable such a 
planet or star candidate could accrete enough mass to compression heat 
its central region to the ignition point.  I was only pointing out that 
it is possible that some other plasma generating mechanism could generate 
a highly local ignition before such a global compression heated ignition 
was reached.  This localized fusion burn would then spread to the rest 
of the planet by intense fusion driven radiation heating of the immediate 
neighborhood which would then expand progressively outward to include 
the whole planet.  Consequently such a mechanism could explain the 
ignition and burning of the binary companions of stronger (older) 
stars; existence of such couplets are well known to astronomers.

+---------------------------------------------------------+**********+
| Paul M. Koloc, President, Prometheus II, Ltd.           +Commercial*
|                   Bx 222, College Park, MD 20740-0222   ***FUSION***
| mimsy!promethe!pmk        pmk%prometheus@mimsy.umd.edu  ***in the***
| (301) 445-1075            promethe=prometheus           **Nineties**
+---------------------------------------------------------************
Newsgroups: sci.physics.fusion
From: vnoninski@fscvax.fsc.mass.edu
Subject: Re: S.Jones' "correction" of Notoya's exp.
Reply-To: vnoninski@fscvax.fsc.mass.edu
Organization: Sci.physics.fusion/Mail Gateway
Date: Sun, 22 Nov 1992 04:13:03 GMT

Dear Colleagues,

Despite  the  fact  that  S.Jones  already,  only  after  he  was 
criticized, appears to have understood (as  seen  from his latest 
postings)  that  not   all  of  the  power   applied    to    the  
electrolysis  cell  is  spent  for heating the cell (although  it 
took  him  some  time,  even  after  he   was   criticized,    to  
understand that the process for which  part  of  the  energy   is  
spent  is  not "hydrolysis", cf.  his  posting  of  November 16), 
he continues   to  refuse    to    understand    that   thickness 
(resp. the resistance)  of the wires before  the   points   where  
the  voltage  actually  is measured makes   no   difference   and 
goes on  to  insistently   refer  to  those  thin  wires  as   an  
argument    against    excess    heat    in  Notoya's  cell  (see  
S.Jones'  posting   of November 20).

However, what the voltages of the electrolysis  and  the  control 
cells (after the clips were moved to the  top   of   the  control 
cell) really were is very questionable in view of the way   those  
data  were   presented    before    the     world     (on     two   
occasions, before he expected anyone to  criticise  him,  numbers 
from measurements  were  posted,  differing   from   the  numbers 
posted after the criticism).

Truly yours,


Vesselin Noninski                               December 21, 1992
From: bobp@hal.com (Bob Pendleton)
Newsgroups: sci.physics.fusion
Subject: Re: RE:  Yamaguchi's experiments
Date: 17 Nov 92 15:28:04 GMT
Organization: HaL Computer Systems, Inc.

From article <1992Nov16.152429.206@physc1.byu.edu>, by jonesse@physc1.byu.edu:
> I hope this matter is clarified,
> because glass provides a reservoir for helium which can be extracted by
> passing H2 or D2 gas over it.  This is precisely the artifactual evidence for
> helium production from hydrogen gasses that initially confused Paneth in 
> experiments with Peters in the late 1920's:  "Paneth and Peters showed that
> the liberation of helium from glass is dependent on the presence of hydrogen.
> Glass tubes, which gave off no detectable helium when heated in vacuum or in
> an oxygen atmosphere, yielded up absorbed helium in the quantities observed 
> when heated in an atmosphere of hydrogen.  Hence, they were in a position to
> give an explanation of the occurrence of the observed very small quantities
> of helium in their experiments as coming from absorbed helium in the glass,
> without having to conclude the systhesis of helium from hydrogen."  (p. 13
> of John Huizenga's book on cold fusion.)

Of course, an alternative explanation, let's call it the True Believer
explanation, would be that various forms of glass catalyze the fusion
of H and D to He. Which kind of fits the geofusion hypothesis, doesn't
it? :-)

> You tell me:  what is going on in Japan?

I really don't know but, I can speculate. 

I think the driving force behind the quest for Cold Fusion is the
possibility (no matter how small) that we could be on to a compact,
clean, and virtually limitless source of energy. This is something
that everyone on earth needs desperately.

But as much as we all need it, does any society on earth need such a
source of energy as much as the Japanese do? They pretty much import
all their energy either as oil, coal, uranium, or now, plutonium. The
Japanese know from history what a shipping blockade can do to them.

The Japanese are highly motivated to find new sources of energy. They
have the money, the talent, and the motivation to look into any
possible new energy source. They are perhaps too motivated.

				Bob P.


P.S.

I'm completely ignoring the commercial value of having the patents on
the first working Cold Fusion power plants.

-- 
Bob Pendleton             | As an engineer I hate to hear:
bobp@hal.com              |   1) You've earned an "I told you so."
Speaking only for myself. |   2) Our customers don't do that.
                   <<< Odin, after the well of Mimir. >>>
From: Ligon@macgw1.ge.com (Woody Ligon)
Newsgroups: sci.physics.fusion
Subject: Re: Notoya Demo/ No No Noninski
Date: 16 Nov 92 14:05:42 GMT
Followup-To: sci.physics.fusion
Organization: GE-CRD

In article <1992Nov13.170826.200@physc1.byu.edu>, jonesse@physc1.byu.edu
wrote:
> 
>  In cement+D2O, "we found a clear
> random neutron emission from the portland cement mixed with D2O at the level
> of 1X10-3 neutrons/second, which is, however, difficult to explain based on
> radioactivity contamination in the cement..."  This signal was about 10 times
> the sensitivity limit.  And observations have been repeated in the Provo
> Canyon tunnel laboratory using fast-setting cement + D2O (and H2O, which shows
> nothing).  We are still working on isolating the source of the neutrons,
> meanwhile we are encouraged by this path, found at Kamiokande and motivated
> by the geological fusion hypothesis. 

 I would respectfully suggest that a more interesting control for this
 experiment is not H2O as described in an earlier posting but rather H2O
 contaminated with the same (non trivial) amount of T2O as is present in
the
 D2O being used.  

 Even more interesting  would be D2O free of T2O but this is probably
harder to
 accomplish. As an alternative, I suggest substantially increasing the
amount of
 T2O in the D2O and repeating the experiment. I mention these control
 experiments because it would seem that the weak but real ionized
 tracks produced by tritium decompositions could provide both a ready
source of
 deuterons and a region (the ionized track) of relatively low density. If
these
 particle tracks were adventitiously created in a region with high static
charge
 arising during crystal formation then we have met a number of the 
 requirements for conventional nuclear chemistry.    

Woody Ligon
(Ligon@macgw1.crd.ge.com)
Standard Disclaimer applies.
From: tiq@fennel.cc.uwa.oz.au (Todd Green)
Newsgroups: sci.physics.fusion
Subject: Re: Ni - H2O electrolysis
Date: 22 Nov 92 16:51:26 +0800
Organization: University of Western Australia
NNTP-Posting-Host: fennel.cc.uwa.edu.au

In article <921122025453_73770.1337_EHA72-1@CompuServe.COM>, Chuck Harrison <73770.1337@compuserve.com> writes:
> Here's the current plan for Mills/Notoya replication:
> 
> Simplified calorimetry (temperature rise of cell dewars) estimates heat
> generation <10%.
> Operating current approx 150 ma.
> 
> Question:
> What is a reliable form of Pt catalyst (or Pd or other) to recombine
>  2 H2 + O2 -> 2 H2O at room temp, ambient pressure?  

Cheap recombination catalysts can be obtained from Hydrocap Inc. - based
in Florida, I think. There catylator product can recombine a few amps
and they are rather cheap ($3 each). An alternative is to use a piece of
fuel cell electrode. These usually consist of Pt dispersed on carbon and 
mounted on a metal base. E-Tek Inc. (Framingham, MA) manufacture an ESN type
fuel cell material which works very well as a recombiner. It is best to get
them "wet proofed" with a porous teflon film as a safety precaution.
Cost is (approx) $100 for 50 cm2 and this would be enough for a number of 
cells. They are rather "clean", although a few carbon particles usually end up
in the electrolyte.

----
Todd Green
From: Dieter Britz <BRITZ@kemi.aau.dk>
Subject: Manners
Reply-To: Dieter Britz <BRITZ@kemi.aau.dk>
Organization: Sci.physics.fusion/Mail Gateway
Date: Mon, 16 Nov 1992 15:23:09 GMT


Originally-From: Jed Rothwell <72240.1256@compuserve.com>

>Dear Steve,
>
>     Say what? Dr. Notoya works on this for six months, and you work on it for
>one day, jump to a conclusion without consulting her, and *she* is notorious?
>Let us just hold our horses, retrace our steps here, and see what is watt. Why
>don't you please address some basic points, please:
>...[Much stuff deleted here]
>Morrison to boot! That is a high-handed thing to do to someone. I know this is
>an informal forum here, but as the Japanese say, "manners matter, even among
>friends." A five minute consultation is in order. Just fax her in advance and

... etc etc, at the great length we are trying to get accustomed to in Jed's
writings. You are, as usual, putting up a smoke screen of verbiage here, mate.
You forget that it was not Jones himself, but his graduate student, who was
there. How could he take a bit of the wire home? Surreptitiously snip a bit of
it off, while Notoya or you were not looking? The phrase "hair-fine" is
commonly used, and everybody (except perhaps you) knows roughly what is meant:
a very thin wire. From the data we have and your statement that it was silver,
I have been able to roughly calculate its diameter. About 40 mu. Happy?

Jed, to paraphrase the well known quote,

"My Rothwell doth protest too much".

I liked the Japanese quote about manners. I wish you would keep this in mind
yourself, Jed, before boldly attacking eminent people such as Jones, Morrison,
Huizenga, and Close. All these people know their physics, and are talking from
that base. That is not to say that they can't be wrong sometimes, but you have
to do more than impolitely threaten to "blow you out of the water", and the
rest of your intemperate language you allow yourself to use on these people.
You have to match them with physics or chemistry - but this would take you a
good number of years of study, I am afraid.

One thing you have not addressed is WHY such a fine wire was used there. You
or Notoya clearly went to some trouble to put it there. As I say, it can't
have been easy to solder it on, and one doesn't accidentally grab a bit of
40 mu wire instead of a normal lead, like the fat one connected to the other
cell. Come on, allay my suspicions, convince me this was not a premeditated
- shall we politely say, false-front PR demo setup.
Don't wait for me to telephone/fax you, tell us here.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Dieter Britz alias britz@kemi.aau.dk
Kemisk Institut, Aarhus Universitet, 8000 Aarhus C, Denmark.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Newsgroups: sci.physics.fusion
From: bobp@hal.com (Bob Pendleton)
Newsgroups: sci.physics.fusion
Subject: Re: Cold Fusion Confusion
Date: 18 Nov 92 15:48:12 GMT
Organization: HaL Computer Systems, Inc.

From article <1992Nov17.151633.11143@Arco.COM>, by dprjdg@inetg1.ARCO.COM (John Grasham):

> I have read everything I could get on the subject both in the press and
> here on the net, and am amazed at the level of diatribes, accusations
> of outright fraud/intentional lying, etc.
> 
> Is the level of emotion shown here evidence of what is at stake?
> 
> Is science-in-the-making such a messy process (a la law-making and
> sausage-making) that this is a normal part of the discussion?

Rule #1: Any activity that involves people involves politics,
emotion, and personalities.

Rule #2: Discovering a new fact means that either the experts didn't
already know the fact, or that what they "knew" was wrong. Some people
cannot admit that they were wrong, or that there is something they
don't know. 

Rule #3: The intensity of the politics is inversely proportional to
the size of the pie and/or directly proportional to the size of the
potential reward.

The size of the pie that researcher are dividing is pretty small, and
the potential rewards for cold fusion are huge.

Based on a life long association with research scientists I'd say that
what you see here is both the good and the bad of science as it really
happens. Well, all most, these guys are using their "Sunday go to
meeting manners" because this is a public medium and there are
non-scientist present.

				Bob P.

P.S.

Based on a life long association with research scientists, I decided
to be an engineer... :-)
-- 
Bob Pendleton             | As an engineer I hate to hear:
bobp@hal.com              |   1) You've earned an "I told you so."
Speaking only for myself. |   2) Our customers don't do that.
                   <<< Odin, after the well of Mimir. >>>
Newsgroups: sci.physics.fusion
From: logajan@anubis.network.com (John Logajan)
Subject: The Accidental Tourist
Reply-To: logajan@anubis.network.com (John Logajan)
Organization: Sci.physics.fusion/Mail Gateway
Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1992 17:44:05 GMT

Also,

>Anyone who wishes to measure the resistance of [Notoys's] 
>silver and platinum leads will be more than welcome to do so. You do not 
>have to measure it "somehow;" it is not "a challenge."  You can bring your 
>own meter, or borrow Dr. Notoya's.

It should be noted that the resistance of copper, platinum and silver wires
doubles for approximately each 250-300 degree increase in temperature.

A thin wire will measure quite low resistance with just the ohmmeter micro
amp current compared to the resistance that might arise under operating
conditions of high current density self-heating.

Therefore, power input into the cell should be measured directly by a series
current measurement and a parallel voltage reading taken directly at the points
of wire entrance into the cell.

- John Logajan MS010, Network Systems; 7600 Boone Ave; Brooklyn Park, MN 55428
- logajan@network.com, 612-424-4888, Fax 612-424-2853
From: jonesse@physc1.byu.edu
Newsgroups: sci.physics.fusion
Subject: Notes/ visit to Takahashi's lab
Date: 16 Nov 92 02:32:47 GMT
Article-I.D.: physc1.1992Nov16.093247.204
Distribution: world
Organization: Brigham Young University


David Buehler, Prof. Lee Hansen and I visited Dr. Takahashi's laboratory
on October 27, 1992.  I wish to report a few of our observations there,
which we also reported to Dr. Takahashi.
The electrolytic cells in which xs heat was reported were open, with
D2 and O2 gases escaping into the air (a red flag as Droege emphasizes).
In fact, we saw dried salts on the tops of the plastic cells showing that
electrolyte had somehow reached the outside of the cells.  Chromel thermo-
couples were used to measure temperature, placed in the electrolyte with
teflon wrapped around the thermocouples -- but this is not a sufficient
barrier to the electrolyte.  Chemical and even electrolytic processes could
thus occur on the thermocouples, leading to small voltage variations which
would be interpreted as temperature changes.  We asked about the calibration
for the heat measurements.  Dr. Takahashi replied that since the electrolytic
cell had vigorous bubbling whereas there would be no bubbles with a resistance
heater, there was *no* calibration.  This seems unbelievable to me, and there
may have been a language problem, but this is what we recall and is recorded
in my logbook.
Dr. Takahashi is experienced in nuclear measurements, not in calorimetry.  His
measurements of neutrons and charged particles appear to be quite good.  Of
course, one must add that the level of these nuclear emissions is a trillion-
fold less than required to produce one watt of xs power.  I see *no*
correlation.  He reports a type of anti-correlation, with neutron emissions
decreasing as xs heat rises.  Furthermore, there is no quantitative
correlation, with neutrons too few by about a trillion-fold to account for 
the xs heat, according to his measurements.
Prof. Lee Hansen of BYU is an experienced calorimetrist.  He has written a
brief treatise on what is needed for careful, definitive heat measurements.
This is being forwarded to Dr. Takahashi, Dr. Notoya -- others may request
the paper by a note to me.  It may be published in the proceedings of the
cold fusion meeting at Nagoya, hopefully.
Best Regards,
Steven E. Jones