From: dipen@heawk1.gsfc.nasa.gov ( Dipen Bhattacharya)
Subject: Re: India vs. Bangladesh (Re: We Need A Hindu-Muslim Dialog)
Organization: Goddard Space Flight Center
Date: Fri, 17 Apr 1992 03:23:07 GMT

	Sometimes rather than debating every issue to its death and
	being defensive on every other point, it helps to lend a 
	sympathetic ear. This simple gesture can go a long way 
	for a broader and better understanding. If I had met any
	of the netters personally I possibly wouldn't have expressed
	many of my views. Usenet, being non-visual and impersonal,
	allows us to be frank. I hope we can all use it to gain 
	experience from others and employ it in our life.
 
	Sandip Kundu writes:

>>    If I were to list the minority places of worship, that were destroyed
>> since 1971 in Bangladesh, one a day, it would take me more than a year 
>> to do so. By then there would be several more. A list is available from 
>> 
>>           Bangladesh Hindu-Bouddha-Christian Oikya Parishad
>>           53 W. Tetjuri Bazar, Tejgaon, Dhaka-1215, Bangladesh
>> 
>> on payment of, I think $5.00 (more for pictures to be included).

	Shakil replies:

>It is interesting to note that this organization itself is operating
>from within Bangladesh.  Surely, if there was an organized repression
>and destruction of places of worship, this would be the first target?
>Does the allowance of distribution of such documents not imply
>religious freedom?  In what way were these palces of worship
>destroyed?  Were they acquired through legal means and then converted
>to other things, or were they burned down in riots such as the ones we
>witness in India?

	The people of Bangladesh should be given more credit: they 
	definitely go beyond just allowing the Hindu-Buddhist-Christian
	Oikkya Parishad to operate. But this credit is shared equally
	by the Muslim and the minority of Bangladesh. Unlike Muslims
	in India, many of whom do endorse sectarian parties like Muslim
	League and Jamaat, Hindus in Bangladesh never formed any
	religion based party. (Even the members of Pakistan National Congress,
	the leftover of the Indian National Congress dissolved Congress
	after liberation and joined Awami League.) The Oikkya Parishad
	is a non-political platform and was formed after secularism
	was dropped from the constitution and Ziaur Rahman revived the
	Enemy Property Act. Leaders of the Oikkya Parishad were attacked
	many times, including a bomb attack on its Chairman near Dhaka
	Medical College. But that was when Ershad was in power. Last
	year, in October, I saw pamphlets in Dhaka denouncing the Parishad
	as a foreign hand and asked for vigilancy: "eder proti kora
	nojor rakhun." It was exactly one year after the '90 riots, but
	this time Govt. was alert and communal processions were stopped
	before they could go onto the main street. There was tension 
	only for a night, some of the families evacuated and we did call
	the Police, and they did provide enough patrol on the streets.

	Shakil writes:

>I do not have any statistics to prove you wrong or right.  But it
>seems questionable to me that you point to temple destruction in
>Bangladesh (the 100 figure seems inflated to me) when the very cause
>of the trouble was the proposed destruction of a longstanding mosque
>in India on no legitimate grounds at all.

	No, there is no legitimate grounds for the destruction of
	the mosque. You would hardly find any Bangladeshi Hindu who 
	would not denounce such action. The point is why also not show
	a little bit sympathy to your own compatriots and culture?
	Remember, the beautiful Ramna Kalibari in the middle of Race
	Course (Sohrawardy Uddyan) which was dynamited by the Pak
	Army and killed all the priests and their families. We used go
	there every pohela boishakh after attending Ramna Park songs.
	The temple never got rebuild. (The Shahid Minar was rebuild.)
 	When a Hindu delegation approached Sheikh Mujib, his answer
	was evasive on this issue. For the sake of national 
	reconciliation Hindus did not press the issue (needless to
	say, their expectations were always sheepish). Please give
	due credit to them also for communal harmony and bear in 
	mind that loss of such a national heritage is a loss to our common
	culture.


>> Bangladesh :
>> 
>>             year        muslims    minorities
>> 
>>             1941        70.3       29.7
>>             1951        76.9       23.1
>>             1961        80.4       19.6
>>             1974        85.4       14.6
>>             1981        86.6       13.4
>> 
>> In absolute numbers there were 1.2 million fewer minorities in Bangladesh
					^^^^ (should be %, and not million)
>> in 1981 than in 1974. (Interesting to note that Bangladesh does not
>> officially acknowledge any emigration to India).

	Shakil writes:

>Does this necessarily mean that there is an organized effort to drive
>minorities out?

	No, there is definitely no organized effort to drive out the
	minorites. (The numbers given are in percentage of the population.)
	The reasons are many, we can discuss them later. I want to make
	a simple point before I move on: you could linear fit those five
	points (with a bad corr. coeff.) and find out by the year 2010,
	the minority percentage will be zero. But an exponential gives
	a better fit and stabilizes the percentage around 3 in the year
	2050. The reason for a slower loss rate of the minority population
	is definitely '71 liberation (making the last two points higher).
	Wouldn't you feel sad when there will be no Hindu/Buddhist
	population left in Bangladesh; all those ancient temples will 
	crumble to dust, there will be no bells from evening worship,
	will you be happy in a monolithic Bangladesh? Will not be this
	our common loss? 

	Shakil writes on the military statistics:

>Statistics, as I'm sure we all know, can be used in all sorts of ways
>to show all kinds of things, often in misleading ways.  Do the above
>statistics imply discrimination?  Not necessarily.  If there is
>discrimination, the above statistics make sense.  But if there isn't,
>statistics like the above are still possible.  There are entire
>businesses in Bangladesh such as the laundry industry, for example,
>where minorities are very strongly represented.  If we were to look
>purely at the statistics of those industries, we could show that the
>*majority* is discriminated against as far as that particular market
>segment goes.  Clearly, that is deceiving logic.  We have to be
>careful with statistics.  There are many social factors which may lead
>to certain ethnic groups preferring particular professions to others.
>They don't necessarily imply discrimination.  Having said that,
>however, I will say that this is not the first time I have heard of
>accusations directed at the armed forces on discrimination, so there
>may well be some substance to that.  Statistics on their own, however,
>don't show anything.

	I don't think there is any reason for being defensive about
	those numbers. Statistics, on their own, are first numbers
	which have to be tabulated and analyzed before we embark on
	any discussion. During this analysis some trends are established
	which, here I agree with you, can be manipulated. But please
	allow me to be sarcastic for the moment. For example,
	looking at these numbers I find high correlation between the
	physical fitness of Bengali (Bangladeshi) Hindus and Uttar Pradeshi
	(Indian) Muslims. UP Muslims are highly under-represented in the
	UP Police Force as Hindus in the Bangladesh Armed Force. If it is
	not discrimination, then physical weakness must be one of the
	viable alternatives. On the other hand, as you have 
	pointed out, certain minority sections have strong ethnical
	tendency to wash and hence, Chinese and Hindu "dhopas" occupy
	the laundry market, thus keeping the majority (with no inherent
	urgency to wash) out of the market!!? To an uninitiated this may
	look like reverse discrimination!!?

	Substituting laundromat for an Armed Force is not a bad idea.

	To Shakil:

	Finally, I want to point out that if there is any discrimination
	or repression you don't bear any responsibility for that. You
	don't have to be the apologist for the armed services or the 
	Govt. foreign corps. We all know things are not always hunki-dori,
	there are many things under the table that you are not aware of.
	The nature of Bangladeshi people essentially is non-communal.  
	My personal experience within my social circle has been excellent.
	All I am asking is not be complacent about the situation and give
	some thoughts to these discussions when you go back (or visit).
	
	Shubhechhante, Dipen