HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: drd@siia.mv.com (David Dick)
Newsgroups: sci.space
Subject: Re: Lecture Summary: What if SETI Succeeds, myth that we're prepared (
Date: 14 Oct 92 22:03:33 GMT
Organization: Software Innovations, Inc.

In <1992Oct13.142006.21236@ke4zv.uucp> gary@ke4zv.uucp (Gary Coffman) writes:

>In article <92285.195231SAG101@psuvm.psu.edu> SAG101@psuvm.psu.edu (stuart goldman) writes:
>> an automobile.  Look at the amount of recklessness and stupidity that occurs
>> on a daily basis there.  Between drunk driving, speeding (not that I have
>> never speeded) and deaths on the road on a daily basis, and that's in two
>> dimensions.  What would happen if everyone had access to an airplane?  Then
>> they're succeptable to collision in three dimensions... then deal with space

>The reason there are so few midair collisions is not the superhuman pilots,
>sober as judges, or the omnipotent FAA. The reason is it's a lot harder to
>hit something with three degrees of freedom than something confined to
>two dimensions, and further confined by roads. It's the difference between
>hitting a sitting duck and a duck on the wing. As we move into space, the
>miss distances grow huge. 

However, you'd still have the problems at places where craft concentrate:
docking/landing places (analogous to airports, which have near misses
from time to time) and volumes where trajectories get squeezed 
together because of two-body gravity and common destinations (analogous,
perhaps, to VORs that everyone vectors in to and out of).

David Dick
Software Innovations, Inc. [the Software Moving Company]
Newsgroups: sci.space
From: wolfgang@lyxys.ka.sub.org (Wolfgang Zenker)
Subject: Re: Asteroid Toutatis Closes In On Earth
Organization: none
X-Newsreader: Tin 1.1 PL4
Date: Fri, 9 Oct 1992 01:27:08 GMT

baalke@kelvin.jpl.nasa.gov (Ron Baalke) writes:
: [..]
:      The approach of Toutatis this year and the one in 2004
: represent the two closest Earth passages of any known asteroid
: for the next 30 years, said Yeomans.
: 
:      Toutatis was discovered Jan. 4, 1989, by Astronomer
: Christian Pollas at Caussols, France, and was named after a
: Gallic deity called "protector of the tribe."

And according to a popular comic strip, the only thing the worshipers
of Toutatis ever feared was that the sky might fall on their heads.

Wolfgang
Newsgroups: sci.space
From: seal@leonardo.Jpl.Nasa.Gov (David Seal)
Subject: Math programs with arbitrary precision for the Mac?
Organization: Jet Propulsion Laboratory
Date: Tue, 13 Oct 1992 22:40:11 GMT

Having been duly inspired by an episode of northern exposure i tried
fiddling with ramanujan's and borwein and borwein's formulas for 
computing pi on my mac.  however, the floating point accuracy
for MATLAB (which i was using) isn't settable and i can't get past
the sixteenth decimal place or so.  other mac programs or ways of computing
pi?  thanks.

ds
--
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
David Seal                 |  Jet Propulsion Laboratory  |     sunset: 7:54pm
seal@leonardo.Jpl.Nasa.Gov |       Mission Design        |   temp: 82 degrees
Newsgroups: sci.space
From: spgreg@mars.lerc.nasa.gov (Greg Macrae)
Subject: Re: Query Re: pluto direct/ o
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41    
Organization: NASA Lewis Research Center
Distribution: usa
Date: 15 Oct 1992 09:46 EDT  

I missed the original post or I would have followed up by mail...
>HS>It is extremely difficult to combine a reasonable payload and a manageably
>HS>short trip time with an orbiter mission.  Pluto is *a long way away*; to
>HS>get there in under a decade, the probe has to be fast.  Killing all that
>HS>velocity is inordinately expensive in mass.  You really cannot do a Pluto
>HS>orbiter in a reasonable amount of time with 1960s propulsion technology,
>HS>which is what all currently-planned missions use.

NASA JPL and NASA LeRC studies show that a Pluto orbiter is possible with 
a 10 year or less time frame, launching with an expendable, chemical first
stage if you are willing to fly nuclear electric propulsion.  
--------------------------------------------------------------------
     MacRae                  |      Bright red pepper pod...
                             | It needs but shiny wings and look...
  spgreg@mars.lerc.nasa.gov  |        Darting dragonfly!
                             |                      -Basho
--------------------------------------------------------------------
From: syee@Bonnie.ICS.UCI.EDU
Subject: (none)
Newsgroups: sci.space
Date: 9 Oct 92 04:38:25 GMT


Subject: Re: Clinton and Space Funding

In article <Bv90sJ.C3F@mentor.cc.purdue.edu> hrubin@pop.stat.purdue.edu (Herman Rubin) writes:
>
>There is another, and extremely important, reason for colonization, namely,
>escape from an oppressive government.  The Spanish colonies were moderately
>successful only where they were eminently profitable; the missions in
>California must be considered a failure.  The French colonies in Canada
>and Louisiana were not particularly successful.  On the other hand, the
>English colonies to escape oppression were generally quite successful,
>even bringing in others.  A major part of the US immigration in the 19th
>century was to escape oppression.


I have one simple question.
If you're trying to "...escape from an oppressive government.", how are you
going to escape from this "oppressive government" when they're funding this
project?

Keep searching until a group of private corporations get together and fund a
majority of this project.


					syee@ics.uci.edu
From: glngar01@uctvax.uct.ac.za
Newsgroups: sci.space
Subject: South Africa tests Satellite launch vehicle
Date: 13 Oct 92 09:46:24 +0200
Organization: University of Cape Town

 Don't know if it's known internationally *yet*, but South Africa successfully
 tested a solid-fuel rocket motor with ballistic potential recently...
 
 The test took place at the Rooi Els test range of Somchem, a subsidiary
 company of Denel (formerly Armscor).
 The burn lasted 58 seconds and produced enough thrust to put a 800kg+ satellite
 in a polar orbit at a height of 400-800km.
 Comparable costs are half that of a similar US launch and South Africa hopes
 that within the next few years to be launching up to 70 satellites annually.
 
 (Incidentally, which other nations/groups of nations have viable satellite
 programs??)
_______________________________________________________________________________
Gary Glen-Young     'The token South African'   
E-mail:glngar01@uctvax.uct.ac.za
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
God made men BIG&small, then Samuel Colt made them all equal,*NOW* Gaston Glock
has made some of us better than others.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Organization: Penn State University
Date: Thu, 15 Oct 1992 13:03:01 EDT
From: William Fabanich <WAF102@psuvm.psu.edu>
Newsgroups: sci.space
Subject: Jobs-Aerospace

Anyone have an approx. number for the number of people employed by gov and indu
stry who do any related work with the space program ?

   Thanx...Bill Fabs    waf102@psuvm.psu.edu
Newsgroups: sci.space
From: jsbell@acs.ucalgary.ca (Joshua Bell)
Subject: Re: Earth's two moons
Date: Sat, 17 Oct 92 02:13:04 GMT
Organization: The University of Calgary, Alberta

In article <Bw8p35.KsI.1@cs.cmu.edu> pgf@srl01.cacs.usl.edu ("Phil G. Fraering") writes:
>>I took an astronomy class in high school and my teacher told us that
>>Earth really has two moons but that the other one can't be seen unaided
>>because it's a lot smaller and farther out. 
>
>>I've been telling some people that Earth has two moons but no one 
>>believes me.  Could someone please confirm this?
>
>I'm not sure; it was once suspected that there was a second moon,
>but that it burned up sometime in the '50's.
>
>I think this thing was supposed to be pretty small, like ~50 ft.
>across...

The first I heard of anything like this was in Ben Bova's
_Moonbase_, where he mentions (I believe) a small body at one of
the Lagrange points (L4 or L5) named Toro. I wrote this off as
wishful thinking, tho. 

Wouldn't we have detected something like this by now, given that
we know exactly where to look?

Joshua
|         A shimmering net undulating like an infinite borealis.             |
|                                                  - Chapterhouse: Dune      |
|                                                                            |
| jsbell@acs.ucalgary.ca  Academic Computing Services, University of Calgary |
From: ewright@convex.com (Edward V. Wright)
Newsgroups: sci.space
Subject: Re: Bootstrap hardware for LunaBase
Date: 15 Oct 92 21:53:34 GMT
Article-I.D.: convex.ewright.719186014
Organization: Engineering, CONVEX Computer Corp., Richardson, Tx., USA
X-Disclaimer: This message was written by a user at CONVEX Computer
              Corp. The opinions expressed are those of the user and
              not necessarily those of CONVEX.

In <1992Oct15.130455.9862@techbook.com> szabo@techbook.com (Nick Szabo) writes:

>>You snub comm sats in favor of mining the asteroids.

>Huh?  Not at all.  I promote them both.  

Nonsense.  You can't promote both: that violates Nick Szabo's Law.
Anyone who wants to do anything *more* than launching comm sats is
"snubbing" them.  You've accused other people of that over and over
again, letting only yourself off the hook, by special dispensation.  


>Furthermore, I think that
>asteroid mining missions (and the volatile extraction missions that
>will likely precede them) should use the same launchers as comsats,
>instead of demanding their own special-purpose hardware.  

Instead of designing specialized launchers for different tasks, let's
try to make one vehicle do all possible jobs?  The same mistake NASA
made with the Shuttle.  Those who ignore history are condemned to
repeat it.


>That's one big reason why comsats and the military are so important.  

What?  You want the military to pay your way?  If anyone else said
that, Nick, you'd accuse them of socialism.


>I have a big problem with proposals like SSF and FLO that soak up 
>huge chunks of the budget in their own enclosed, built-from-scratch world,

The budget that you want for your "private, free-enterprise" projects?

 
>I've dreamed up over a dozen original concepts which I've posted here,
>while you repeat ancient dogma.  I've got you beat cold in the
>imagination category. The issue here is the economic validity of these 
>plans, 

Yeah, you can say that again. :-)


>Automated volatile extraction requires good controls and high
>reliability.  It does not require "AI"

Right.  It does not require AI because AI is not good enough.
What the job does require is a self-repairing, self-adapting system 
with good dexterity and unparalleled pattern recognition capabilities.
There is only one system that meets those requirements today --
Homo sap, Mark I, Mod 0 -- with no replacement in sight, despite
your claims to the contrary.


>the definition of which seems to be "the hard problems" -- as soon as
>they're solved they're no longer AI.

That definition was someone's *joke*, Nick.  Maybe you should
try taking an AI course some day and get some idea what you're
talking about.
Newsgroups: sci.space
From: dj@ekcolor.ssd.kodak.com (Dave Jones)
Subject: Re: Math programs with arbitrary precision for the Mac?
Followups-To: sci.math
Organization: Soo, Grabbit & Runne
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1 PL6]
Distribution: usa
Date: Fri, 16 Oct 92 14:11:53 GMT

Millard Edgerton (millard@eos.arc.nasa.gov) wrote:
> 
> >In article <seal.719016011@leonardo>, seal@leonardo.Jpl.Nasa.Gov (David Seal) writes...
> >>Having been duly inspired by an episode of northern exposure i tried
> >>fiddling with ramanujan's and borwein and borwein's formulas for 
> >>computing pi on my mac.  however, the floating point accuracy
> >>for MATLAB (which i was using) isn't settable and i can't get past
> >>the sixteenth decimal place or so.  other mac programs or ways of computing
> >>pi?  thanks.
> 
> 
> The solution of 355/113 yields PI to with 10^-7.  Archemedies knew it close
> enough for our use today, beyond that it is an academic exercise.
> 
You're missing the point, guys.  The exploration of pi's digits as an
end in itself is taken from Carl Sagan's "Contact" in which there are
supposed to be messages from "the creators" hidden in transcendental
numbers like pi, e etc.  At the end of the novel, the heroine finds a
digital picture of a circle out in the jillionth place or so, indicating
that there is indeed intelligence behind the structure of the universe,
and that looking further will yield still more info.

Of course, since pi has infinite digits, every sequence imaginable will
occur there somewhere.  A significant sequence is one which is very unlikely
given the number of digits computed so far.  8 consecutive 8's (10^8:1
against) is not very significant given a couple million digits computed
(which was the event mentioned in the show, I believe).

--
||)) There is no truth to the rumor that:)))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))|
||)) Lotus are suing Apple for copying the look and feel of their lawsuits )|
||))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))|
||Dave Jones (dj@ekcolor.ssd.kodak.com) | Eastman Kodak Co. Rochester, NY   |
From: Frederick.A.Ringwald@dartmouth.edu (Frederick A. Ringwald)
Newsgroups: sci.space
Subject: Re: Roswell
Date: 14 Oct 92 01:43:01 GMT
 <Bw0v8v.6Dp@zoo.toronto.edu>
Organization: Dartmouth College, Hanover, NH
X-Posted-From: InterNews1.0a5@newshost.dartmouth.edu

In article <Bw0v8v.6Dp@zoo.toronto.edu>
henry@zoo.toronto.edu (Henry Spencer) writes:

> Come now.  If you're going to reprint stuff from Air&Space, [...]
> at least summarize the whole article, rather than taking part of it out
> of context.  Much the most interesting thing in that article was the
> observation that a crash of a hush-hush *US* project could easily account
> for the fuss and the secrecy... especially since the location was ideal for
> such a thing to happen.  Roswell is in the middle of an area that includes
> White Sands Missile Range, Los Alamos, and an airbase that then housed the
> world's only operational nuclear-bomber force.
> 
> It's silly to invoke crashed UFOs when Earthly causes provide quite an
> adequate explanation.

It may well also explain the alleged "spook hangar" - number 19, if
memory serves me right - at Wright-Patterson AFB. I must say "alleged",
since I have not seen it myself, although I've heard one can see a
building that doesn't look like much. Let's see, a building that
doesn't look like much: now that's convincing!  ;-)

If such a building actually exists, and it does house something
dreadfully embarrassing to the USAF, you have your pick of nasties -
nuclear, chemical, or even biological - before you get to anything
extraterrestrial. Then there's the idea that's where the Arc of the
Covenant wound up... ;-) ;-) ;-)
From: scott@psy.uwa.oz.au (Scott Fisher)
Newsgroups: sci.space
Subject: Re: UFO EVIDENCE VS. Carl Sagan
Date: 12 Oct 1992 05:25:57 GMT
Organization: The University of Westrn Australia
NNTP-Posting-Host: wapsy.psy.uwa.oz.au

rbw3q@rayleigh.mech.Virginia.EDU (Brad Whitehurst) writes:

>In article <1992Oct6.170715.1564@cnsvax.uwec.edu> mcelwre@cnsvax.uwec.edu writes:
>>          
>>          
>>                           UFO EVIDENCE VS. Carl Sagan
>>
>>               I watched all of Dr. Carl Sagan's updated "Cosmos" 
>>          programs on PBS during summer 1991.  In one of them, he STILL 
>>          maintains that there is no physical evidence for UFO 
>>          Spacecraft, "just stories". 

Updated "Cosmos"?  What where?  Can anyont tell me more about this?  I have
seen the "original" several times.  In what way's is this updated one different?

Regards Scott.
_______________________________________________________________________________
Scott Fisher [scott@psy.uwa.oz.au]  PH: Aus [61] Perth (09) Local (380 3272).                
                                                             _--_|\       N
Department of Psychology                                    /      \    W + E
University of Western Australia.                 Perth -->  *_.--._/      S
Nedlands, 6009.  PERTH, W.A.                                      v       

Joy is a Jaguar XJ-6 with a flat battery, a blown oil seal and an unsympathetic wife, 9km outside of a small remote town, 3:15am on a cold wet winters morning.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Newsgroups: sci.space
From: jbh55289@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (Josh 'K' Hopkins)
Subject: Re: SETI functional grammer
Organization: University of Illinois at Urbana
Distribution: usa
Date: Fri, 16 Oct 1992 17:55:36 GMT

Ligon@macgw1.ge.com (Woody Ligon) writes:

>The absurd waste of money called SETI assumes a lot more than  language
>concepts. 

SETI costs something like $10 million per year and has already resulted in some
interesting spinoffs.  If you get upset about $10 million on science, I'd expect
you to start hemorrhaging at the thought of some more serious wastes in our 
government.  

> Consider, for example, that SETI assumes  that alien messages will
>be sent in a serial format.  Suppose these beings have the good sence to 
>utilize a large part of the EM spectrum and communicate massively parallel?

I don't see how you can use huge numbers of frequencies for one message without
limiting the total number of messages you can send.  We communicate the way we
do for a couple of good reasons.

>Also consider that if we were sitting somewhere in "inner" space between 
>our own eyeball and our own brain, we wouldn't have a clue from the EM 
>signals  whether there was an image being transmitted, and we wouldn't stand
>a chance in hell of decoding it. 

What does this mean and what does it have to do with SETI?

>Moreover, here we are, unable to communicate fluently with a single
>other species on this planet and we want to spend taxpayers money to listen
>for species who may not even exist.  I might begin to think this is worthwhile
>when we can speak to whales and dolphins and decode our own nerve impulses.

But these are both completely different issues.  We can "talk" to animals in 
some sense, and we haven't shown that they hvae a much larger vocabulary that
we aren't understanding.

-- 
Josh Hopkins                                          jbh55289@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu
	 The views expresed above do not necessarily reflect those of
ISDS, UIUC, NSS, IBM FSC, NCSA, NMSU, AIAA or the American Association for the
                      Advancement of Acronymphomaniacs
From: gary@ke4zv.uucp (Gary Coffman)
Newsgroups: sci.space
Subject: Re: Drop nuc waste into sun
Date: 8 Oct 92 03:30:28 GMT
Reply-To: gary@ke4zv.UUCP (Gary Coffman)
Organization: Gannett Technologies Group

In article <komarimf.718477945@craft.camp.clarkson.edu> komarimf@craft.camp.clarkson.edu (Mark 'Henry' Komarinski) writes:
>paul.nimmo@f635.n713.z3.fido.zeta.org.au (Paul Nimmo) writes:
>
>>Original to: Hangfore@Spf.Trw.Com
>>Hi all, now someone correct me if i'm wrong here, but, isn't the fundamentl
>>problem with sending waste to the sun the energy requirements? If my
>>schoolboy physics memory serves me correctly it would take more energy to
>>toss waste into the sun than it would to send it right out of the solar
>>system. this being true it certainly does *not* present itself as a fesible
>>alternative.
>>see ya, paul.
>
>That shouldn't be a problem.  The sun's gravity will pull it towards the
>sun, saving energy.  The problem is getting the radioactive crap into
>space.  If one of these rockets blows up, there will be mucho radiation
>all over the place and the world will soon be glowing in the dark.

Yes the sun's gravity would pull the payload towards the sun, just as
the sun's gravity pulls the *Earth* towards the sun. But, just like
the Earth, the orbital velocity keeps it from falling into the sun. 
The energy required to kill that velocity is substantially greater 
than the energy requirement to put a payload into a solar system escape
trajectory since the Earth's orbital velocity already puts it most of
the way there.

>P.S. I think sending the waste outside the solar system is like dumping it
>in the ocean..it just sends the problem somewhere else.

Indeed, throwing away a valuable resource where you can't get at it
later is always a *stupid* idea.

Gary
Newsgroups: sci.space,alt.sci.planetary
From: collins@well.sf.ca.us (Steve Collins)
Subject: MO TCM-1
Organization: Whole Earth 'Lectronic Link
Date: Sun, 11 Oct 1992 20:19:53 GMT



We performed Mars Observer TCM-1 last night. Everything went remarkably well.
The on board accelerometers indicated that the 490 N engines shut down
at the intended 50.0 m/sec delta-V. The first look from the NAV team indicates
that our actual delta-V may be slightly smaller. We had a few tense moments
when we failed to receive telemetry at the expected time following the
burn, but DSN achieved lock after a few minutes and the spacecraft was
in the correct configuration. We returned to Array Normal Spin without
incident and when I left (about 2:30 am PDT) we were processing stars
normally. This was a big milestone for us and everyone from JPL and
GE are very happy.
            Steve Collins MO Spacecraft Team (AACS)
From: David.Anderman@ofa123.fidonet.org
Newsgroups: sci.space
Subject: Candidates' Forum on Space
Date: 14 Oct 92 08:47:02 GMT
X-Sender: newtout 0.02 Oct  1 1992

Inland Empire NSS Chapter Holds Congressional Candidates' Forum
 
  On Saturday, October 3, the Inland Empire Space Group, a chapter
of the National Space, hosted a forum on aerospace issues at the
Riverside Central Library in downtown Riverside. Attending the
forum were candidates for the 42nd and 43rd congressional
districts, or their representatives. 
  The Democratic candidate for the 43rd district, Mark Takano,
pushed for conversion of California's aerospace industry to
non-military applications, such as production of fuel cells and
electric cars. He did not consider civil space to be a major
component of this conversion process.
  The representative for Republican candidate Ken Calvert (R-43),
Bob Woolf, stated that the nation's security requires a
continuing need for a strong military. He also expressed support
for funding for NASA, although not in concrete numbers.
  Candidate Dick Rutan (R-42) declined to attend or send a
representative. 
  Congressman George Brown, a candidate for the 42nd district and
current Chair of the House Committee on Space, Science and
Technology, was unable to attend, but was represented by Temoc
Figueroa, his campaign Field Director. Mr. Figueroa did not
provide specifics during his discussion, except to restate Mr.
Brown's commitment to the eventual development of human colonies
in space. The timetable for these settlements would be subject
to today's stringent budget constraints. However, Mr. Brown's
office did provide specific answers to questions posed by the
Inland Empire space Group prior to the debate. Included in the
responses were support for the Space Exploration Initiative, HR
3848, the Competitiveness in Space Act, the Launch Service
Purchase Act, a positive resolution on U.S. use of former Soviet
space hardware, and commented that NASA should not be
responsible for development of the Delta Clipper.
  The Libertarian candidates in the 42nd and 43rd districts, Fritz
Ward and Gene Berkman agreed that NASA, as a government agency
should be abolished, and that private industry should take up
the slack from a drastically reduced Department of Defense.
  Some members of OASIS, the Los Angeles chapter of the National
Space Society, and the Inland Empire Space Group, will meet in
the Riverside area on Saturday, October 31, to participate in
the campaign for the 42nd district. For more information on this
event, or on the positions of these candidates, please contact
David Anderman at 714/524-1674.
 
 
 
 
 

--- Maximus 2.00
Newsgroups: sci.space