HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: oispeggy@ubvmsd.cc.buffalo.edu (Peggy Brown)
Newsgroups: alt.magick
Subject: Re: Singin' Those Apocalypse Blues
Keywords: gloom doom magic survival
Date: 18 Dec 92 02:31:00 GMT
Organization: University at Buffalo
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41

In article <1992Dec17.224711.14248@u.washington.edu>, grimoire@byron.u.washington.edu (John Greer) writes...
> 
>Okay, here's the material on survival on a group level.  (For those of you 
>who just tuned in, there was a post on some ideas for individual training
>and preparedness a few weeks ago; if you missed it, and care, e-mail me.)
> 

>The one thing I think needs saying is that your group needs a cover -- and
>not a religious one.   Publicly, be something innocuous.  Join an almost-
>dead lodge of some dilapidated fraternal order, revive it, and then have
>some of the members buy and donate to the lodge a chunk of wilderness
>property to serve as a lodge campsite.  (I know of people who are doing 
>something not too far from this.)  Start a nonprofit to do research on 
>organic agriculture, and have it buy farmland in some out-of-the-way area
>as an experimental farm.  (I know of people who are doing something close
>to this as well.)  

>Comments are of course welcome,

These people you know who are scarfing land, are they doing it 
because they also believe in this impending disaster?  If so, 
could you describe these people in more detail.  (I don't know 
anyone that like that, so I'm curious.)
> 
>-- John Michael Greer
>   grimoire@u.washington.edu

- Peggy -
From: stanley@verga.enet.dec.com (Hail Eris)
Newsgroups: alt.magick
Subject: Re: Singin' Those Apocalypse Blues
Date: 17 Dec 92 15:03:43 GMT
Organization: Digital Equipment Corporation


In article <1992Dec16.194323.5575@wl.com>, anzlovar@wl.com (Bob Anzlovar) writes...
>>> 
>>>tell you what, I'll bet you $1000.00 that civilization will not
>>>fall by any date you care to name. I'll go further; I will bet
>>>$1000 against your $10 that civilization will not fall by any
>>>date you care to name.
>>> 
>>>josh
>>
>>:-)... Can I get in on this action too?  I'm with Josh.
> 
>Yeah, sure, like the $1000 is gonna do me any good after civilzation
>collapses. Are you willing to pay iin $1's so it's at least usable for
>wiping after visiting the bushes? :-)
> 
> 
>~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>Bob Anzlovar                    | I wrote COBOL once, but I didn't like
>(anzlovar@wl.com)               | it. I didn't compile.
>-- 
>~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>Bob Anzlovar                    | I wrote COBOL once, but I didn't like
>(anzlovar@wl.com)               | it. I didn't compile.

I don't know, Bob... it has to assume some form... seems to me that it would
be a hell of a lot easier to guide it through than to try to rebuild it..
Newsgroups: alt.magick
From: billn@hpcvaac.cv.hp.com (bill nelson)
Subject: Re: Grimoir?
Organization: Hewlett-Packard Company, Corvallis, Oregon USA
Date: Mon, 14 Dec 1992 07:10:10 GMT

mark.terka@rose.com (mark terka) writes:
: 
: Comments, anyone?

Yeah. I like the part about "kindling the priest". The rest is
uninteresting, to me.

Bill

Newsgroups: alt.magick
From: asgds@acad2.alaska.edu
Subject: meditation
Organization: University of Alaska
Date: Thu, 17 Dec 1992 17:12:54 GMT

X-NEWS: acad2a alt.divination: 454
Newsgroups: alt.divination
From: asgds@acad2.alaska.edu
Subject: meditation
Organization: University of Alaska
Date: Wed, 16 Dec 1992 17:51:24 GMT


	I recently meditated on a flame during a ritual.  ritual is my term
for any time I perform magick.  Basically I light a candle and invoke God and
the spirits and forces.  The rest is NOYB, Anyway, I stared deeply into the 
flame and entered amild trance.  Not really a "trance" so much as a heightened
state of awareness, I had a couple minor revelation's and came out of it,
feeling positive and renewed.
	I would be REALLY interested in hearing any similar experiences, and/or
advice for achiveing a more prolonged and/or deeper meditative state.

	Please feel free to post or email me asgds@acad2.alaska.edu
				Love and miscellaneous:)	

From: KEITH.SPEARS@f108.n282.z1.tdkt.kksys.com (KEITH SPEARS)
Sender: FredGate@tdkt.kksys.com
Newsgroups: alt.magick
Subject: Five Chinese Elements
Date: Thu, 10 Dec 1992 10:05:00 -0600

For those who were curious, here's a short little list of
correspondences for the five Chinese elements.

WOOD
Direction:  East
Divine Ruler:  T'ai Hou
Guardian Spirit:  Ku Meng
Sacred Beast:  Azure Dragon
Ministry:  Agriculture
Planet:  Jupiter (T'ai Sui)
Heavens:  Stars
Number:  8
Color:  Azure
Note:  Chio
Virtue:  Benevolence
Attribute:  Bearing
Manner:  Casual
Mood:  Anger

FIRE
Direction:  South
Divine Ruler:  Yen Ti
Guardian Spirit:  Chou Yung
Sacred Beast:  Scarlet Bird (Phoenix?)
Ministry:  War
Planet:  Mars (Ying Huo)
Heavens:  Sun
Number:  7
Color:  Red
Note:  Chih
Virtue:  Wisdom
Attribute:  Imagination
Manner:  Educated
Mood:  Joy

METAL
Direction:  West
Divine Ruler:  Hsiao Hao
Guardian Spirit:  Ju Shou
Sacred Beast:  White Tiger
Ministry:  Justice
Planet:  Venus (T'ai Peh)
Heavens:  Hsiu (a astronomical term of unknown meaning)
Number:  9
Color:  White
Note:  Shang
Virtue:  Righteousness
Attribute:  Eloquence
Manner:  Vigorous
Mood:  Sorrow

WATER
Direction:  North
Divine Ruler:  Chuan Hu
Guardian Spirit:  Hsuan Ming
Sacred Beast:  Black Tortoise
Ministry:  Works
Planet:  Mercury (Ch'en)
Heavens:  Moon
Number:  6
Color:  Black
Note:  Yu
Virtue:  Decorum
Attribute:  Attentiveness
Manner:  Tranquil
Mood:  Fear

EARTH
Direction:  Center
Divine Ruler:  Huang Ti
Guardian Spirit:  Hou T'u
Sacred Beast:  Yellow Dragon
Ministry:  State
Planet:  Saturn (Chen)
Heavens:  Earth
Number:  5
Color:  Yellow
Note:  Kung
Virtue:  Faith
Attribute:  Intellect
Manner:  Circumspect
Mood:  Desire

The Creative Cycle:  Wood burns, producing Fire.  Fire leaves ash, or
Earth.  From Earth we extract Metal.  Metal can be melted to run like
Water.  Water is necessary for the growth of Wood.

The Destructive Cycle:  Water quenches Fire.  Fire melts Metal.  Metal
chops Wood.  Wood eats Earth.  Earth drinks Water.


 * OLX 2.1 TD * Squid.  Live squid.  Don't settle for less.
 * Origin: The City Lights 612-633-1366 (1:282/108)
Newsgroups: alt.magick
From: john@physiol.su.OZ.AU (John Mackin)
Subject: Re: Binah
Organization: None
Date: Sun, 20 Dec 1992 03:29:12 GMT

In article <Dec.10.13.29.41.1992.26392@presto.ig.com>,
	stuczyns@presto.ig.com (Martin Stuczynski) writes:

> I read a post here recently that stated :
>
>      333=Binah
>
> I'm the 3rd son of a 3rd son. I was assigned office #333 at my place
> of employment and I just met an East Indian woman named Bina. What can
> it mean?

What, indeed.

Maybe you've been noticing your life getting a little bit, ah,
_dispersed_ lately?

Just an idle speculation. :)

-- 
John Mackin <john@civil.su.oz.au>
Knox's box is a 286.                 Fox in Socks does hacks and tricks
Knox's box is hard to fix.           To fix poor Knox's box for kicks.
From: farris@ruhets.rutgers.edu (Lorenzo Farris)
Newsgroups: alt.magick
Subject: Re: MUDs and Reality (Theory, LONG)
Date: 17 Dec 92 17:44:25 GMT
Organization: Rutgers Univ., New Brunswick, N.J.

It hadn't occured to me when reading Thyagi's piece that he might be
referring to role-playing games, as well. I interpreted it much more
along the lines of theories of perception.

I see, from Jason's post, how RPG's could be effectively used as
a means to explore one's inner space, as well as to get a sense of
perspective on one's perceptions and interactions in the physical.

However, I have seen the danger, among many people, of this becoming
just an escape from the realm that their bodies and minds usually
exist in, in some ways similar to escapist uses of drugs. The net
effect is that effectiveness and interactions in the physical are
compromised.

As with anything, a little balance and perspective go a long way.

				-lorenzo
-- 
Happiness is just a                     ******************************
remembrance away.                       *  Lorenzo Farris            *
                                        *  farris@ruhets.rutgers.edu *
                                        ******************************
From: Tagi@cup.portal.com (Thyagi Morgoth NagaSiva)
Newsgroups: alt.magick
Subject: Re: Daath & Tzaddi ??
Date: Sat, 12 Dec 92 07:45:23 PST
Organization: The Portal System (TM)
  <JOSHUA.92Dec12055012@bailey.cpac.washington.edu>

9212.12 e.v.


Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the Law.
The word of Sin is Restriction.


In article <1992Dec11.075001.1@vax.sonoma.edu> mccalld@vax.sonoma.edu writes:

>	   Why is Daath, knowledge, considered the false spheroth?


Response:

I thought Josh answered this quite well.  Knowledge, especially
intellectual knowledge, is a boat with holes.  The only ways to cross
the Abysmal Sea (or make love to it, if you like) are by either
swimming across (thus abandoning knowledge in favor of the cleansing
trans-Daath journey) or diving down into the Abyss beneath Daath and
transiting the 'Tunnels of Terror' (the Qliphoth).

I tend to think that these journeys (across or down) are both the
same and that only the way to describe them (and therefore perhaps
to experience them) differs.  Your mileage may vary, as the saying goes.


>			   Why is Tzaddi not the star?


"For there came an interpolated answer, 'All these old letters of
my book are aright; but [Tzaddi] is not the Star. This also is secret;
my prophet shall reveal it to the wise.'

"This was exceedingly annoying.  If Tzaddi was not 'the Star', what was?
And what was Tzaddi?  He tried for years to counterchange this card,
'The Star', which is numbered XVII, with some other.  He had no success.
It was many years later that the solution came to him.  Tzaddi is
'The Emperor'; and therefore the positions of XVII and IV must be counter-
changed.  The attribution is very satisfactory.

"Yes, but it is something a great deal more than satisfactory; it is,
to clear thought, the most convincing evidence possible that the _Book
of the Law_ is a genuine message from the Secret Chiefs.

"For 'The Star' is referred to Aquarius in the Zodiac, and 'The Emperor'
to Aries.  Now Aries and Aquarius are on each side of Pisces, just as
Leo and Libra are on each side of Virgo; that is say, the correction
in the _Book of the Law_ gives a perfect symmetry in the zodiacal
attribution, just as if a loop were formed at one end of the ellipse
to correspond exactle with the existing loop at the other end."


_Equinox Vol. III:V_ (The Book of Thoth), by Aleister Crowley, 
Samuel Weiser, 1981; pages 9-10.


Invoke me under my stars.  Love is the law, love under will.


I am I!


Frater (I) Nigris (666)
From: ladislas@sobeco.com (Ladislas A.)
Newsgroups: alt.magick
Subject: Re: Singin' Those Apocalypse Blues
Date: 15 Dec 92 06:20:17 GMT
Organization: Sobeco Ernst & Young

In <1992Dec14.150930.4887@engage.pko.dec.com> stanley@verga.enet.dec.com writes:

>In article <1992Dec14.070934.19077@sobeco.com>, ladislas@sobeco.com (Ladislas A.) writes...
>>(This is off the subject of magick, but I think the point is being missed

>What is the point then, Ladislas?

The point is as indicated in the text that followed.  I think we are missing
the point because it is not the type of energy that we use/will use, the level
of technology or where we get the resources from that will garantee the
survival of our civilization.  It is not only a question of economical or
industrial survival.  The ecological and social aspects must also be taken into
consideration.  Worldwide population should also be considered.

This civilization is gangrenous.  Like the Phoenix, it must immolate itself
to be reborn from its ashes.  The collapse of the roman civilization didn't
wipe out all existing knowledge as some fear would happen should ours collapse.
I'd say the collapse of the roman civ. paved the way for our civilization.
I heard somewhere that when something dies, it favors the birth of something
new.

In our century, we have become obsessed with keeping death away at all cost.
How many terminally ill patients await their death in sufferings because we
might find someday, a way to cure them?  Some are prepared to suffer in the
hope that they can be cured.  Some would be content to die but they are
robbed of that freedom.  Lately, euthanasia (sp?) as been granted to some
people.  My opinion is that our civilization is terminally ill.  Refusing
to let it die when its time's up might only cause greater suffering.

>>... problem with the human specy really is: greed.

>There are ways around that surely..

I sure hope there is.  But don't you think that this is one of those solutions
where the whole world must change, as in every human being?

>>Stopping here since the whole case should end up in some other newsgroup.

>Seems to me that the whole case belongs in this newsgroup.

It is an interesting tangent to the original subject.  But it would be more
at home in alt.save.the.world.

>Who else can address problems like this?

I find it hard to believe that even magick can have such worldwide effects.

Ladislas.
Newsgroups: alt.magick
From: locklin@titan.ucc.umass.edu (Lupo the Butcher)
Subject: Re: Pentagrams
Organization: Campus Crusade for Cthulhu
Date: Sat, 19 Dec 1992 03:12:02 GMT
X-Posted-From: titan.ucc.umass.edu
NNTP-Posting-Host: sol.ctr.columbia.edu


In article <1992Dec18.003715.7739@ultb.isc.rit.edu> tjr0868@ritvax.isc.rit.edu writes:
>I can't help you with the history, (I not sure what I 
>am about to say will help much at all, but here goes),
>The regular pentagram, pointing up, was, and still is in some
>places, used as a "Hex" mark.  Just watch "Warlock".  Anyway,
>Satanists love to invert things that are normal in this world.
>Most Satanists believe that evil is the dominant force in the
>universe, so any sign they see as good is reversed.  Often the
>"Our Father" is said backwards.  Nema,  live morf su reviled etc.
>(That may just be rumor, I'm not sure).  Symbols are a natural 
>target.  Everyone is familiar with the upside down cross and
>crucifix, and the pentagram pointing down.  Other symbols are the
>Egyptian heiroglyph (sp?) for "life"; a + with a circle on the
>bottom.  (I think that's what it means).  However, by this definition
>Hitler was a Satanist.  He took a symbol for "peace" from I forgot
>who, and used a mirror image of it for the Nazi Swastica.
>
>(Like I said, I doubt it helped).
>                                             ->Later.....Spice


Hmmm. I suppose the "reversal" bit _is_ possible, but I do not see how an
upright pentagram was ever seen to be "good". Perhaps a subtle insult to
the entrenched occult orders of the time... 

I don't know if "Warlock" is a good source of historical data. It said some
rather silly things about the _Key of Solomon_...

As far as Satanists inverting the Lord's prayer & whatnot, this form of 
adolescent posturing is left to adolescents as far as I know. The Satanists
I know (including meself) are a bit beyond such mindless parody of 
christianity.

As far as the "ankh" being a "satanic" symbol, while Satanists may wear such
jewelry, it "satanic" symbolism is peripheral as far as I know. It is no
more "satanic" than any other non-christain symbol. I never heard of inverting
an ankh...

Is the swastica a symbol of peace? I always thought it to be a symbol of
eternity or some such stuff. 

-Lupo (as far as I know...)
Newsgroups: alt.magick
From: mcnair@slab.unt.edu (SEAN MCNAIR)
Subject: re: misc.magic
Organization: School of Library & Info Sci, UNT
Date: Wed, 16 Dec 1992 21:59:39 GMT

	I think this is a good idea, because I had no idea that there was a 
magick group on here until someone referred me to it. I do not, however, 
think that it should be moderated. Those who flame here do a good job of 
keeping the silly ones away. I think that misc.magic could have the same 
atmosphere.


		Sean Jeffers Mc Nair
From: rjb@carson.u.washington.edu (LeGrand Cinq-Mars)
Newsgroups: alt.magick
Subject: Re: Chivalry
Date: 16 Dec 92 17:46:49 GMT
Organization: University of Washington, Seattle

The thread on esoteric martial arts has modulated into a discussion of
chivalry.  It's true that "chivalry" has existed in east Asia as well as in
the Islamic world and the west, but it isn't, it seems to me, quite the 
same thing as an esoteric martial art ("boxing + yoga," as the thumbnail
summary put it).

Western European chivalry is, like the romantic love tradition, often
supposed to have come from the Muslim world -- although certainly the
grounds for something like it existed earlier, in the notions warriors'
honor and so on.  The more "chivalrous" aspects of knighthood --
service to ladies, protection of the weak, righting injustices --
might (or might not) have arisen only after contact with Muslim
communities; certainly it seems a commonplace to talk about how
impressed crusader hostages were by the manners and customs of
Saladin.

A kind of "chivalrous" (though not necessarily equestrian) knighthood
existed in east Asia (cf. James Liu, _The Chinese Knight Errant_, or
any number of sowrdfighting films from Hong Kong or Taiwan).  Mo Tzu,
the "universal benevolence" philosopher, had a small army that used to
intervene in disputes on the side of the underdog, and stories from
the _Shui Hu Chuan_ are still taught to children and foreigners
as a way of easing their entry into literacy and civilization.  But
I'm not sure that anyone reading the _Shui Hu Chuan_ would ever
realize the presence of a "boxing+yoga" tradition without knowing about
it already -- not at all the case of course for modern Chinese
"sword and sorcery" novels or films.

I think martial (boxing+yoga) arts and chivalrous knighthood are
two different things, and neither one entails the other, though they
certainly have occurred together.  There's no doubt that knighthood
or chivalry was recognized from Japan to England by (say) the end of the
15th century.  But esoteric martial arts?  

--LeGrand
From: oispeggy@ubvmsd.cc.buffalo.edu (Peggy Brown)
Newsgroups: alt.magick
Subject: Re: misc.magick...
Date: 17 Dec 92 14:34:00 GMT
Organization: University at Buffalo
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41

In article <1992Dec17.122303.2554@dct.ac.uk>, ccdarg@dct.ac.uk (Alan Greig) writes...
>In article <1992Dec16.064254.17948@primerd.prime.com>, jasonp@bungie.Prime.com (Jason Pascucci) writes:

>be worth sending a newgroup for alt.magick and prompt a few more sysadmins
>to create it but that's about all.
> 
>-- 
>Alan Greig                            Janet: Alan@UK.AC.DUNDEE-TECH
>Dundee Institute of Technology	   Internet: Alan@DCT.AC.UK
>Tel: (0382) 308810                 Int: +44 382 308810
>              -- There is only one true conspiracy --

Best idea I've heard yet.  Changing the group is starting to 
sound like more trouble than its worth.

- Peggy -
Newsgroups: alt.magick
From: gottlieb@umbc8.umbc.edu (Robert Gottlieb)
Subject: Books on Cabalah
Organization: University of Maryland, Baltimore County Campus
Date: Sat, 12 Dec 1992 19:48:46 GMT


Hi all,

I'm looking for some good books on practising Cabalah.  I'm very
new to this, so I'm looking for something that starts out
fairly basic.  I've already looked at some history of it, but
I'm more interested in the "how to" kinda books.

Thanks in advance.

Robert



-- 
Robert Gottlieb
gottlieb@umbc7.umbc.edu or robertg@cs.umbc.edu
"Not gonna do it.. wouldn't be prudent..."
Not umbc's opinion.  
Newsgroups: alt.magick
From: jasonp@bungee.NoSubdomain.NoDomain (Jason Pascucci)
Subject: Re: talk.magick
Organization: Prime Computer R&D
Date: Wed, 16 Dec 1992 21:46:45 GMT

In article <71826@cup.portal.com>, Tagi@cup.portal.com (Thyagi Morgoth NagaSiva) writes:
|> 9212.16 e.v.
|> Talk.Magick is a nice comrade to Talk.Religion and could then filter
|> off into 'Talk.Magick.Wiccan' and 'Talk.Magick.Hermetics' and
|> 'Talk.Magick.Liechtensteinian' or even 'Talk.Magick.Kitchen'!
|> 

Ditto with misc.magick. My intention was to  avoid the stigmata
associated with the Talk groups. 

|> I still want to know:
|> 
|> 
|> Why?  For what purpose?  

To expand our offering. Not everybody (in fact, I believe
less than 1/2) gets the alt groups.

|> Who will be going there?

Everybody. Alt.magick will most likely be disassembled. 

|> Why can't we make this Alt.Magick into subgroups or leave it the
|> way it is and broaden its perspective slightly?

I didn't say the format needed to be changed, just that
we might want to move a little more towards the mainstream. 

|> What is the problem with this group?

Nothing's wrong. But I don't subscribe to the 'If it
ain't broke, don't fix it' creedo. I feel that
the limited distribution detracts from the knowledge
base would might otherwise aquire. 

|> How would you change it if you could?
|> Thyagi

And, anyway...aren't you people :) charged with
Spreading the Word among the profane?
--
Jason R. Pascucci
jasonp@primerd.prime.com
Newsgroups: alt.magick
From: jasonp@bungee.NoSubdomain.NoDomain (Jason Pascucci)
Subject: Re: Daath & Tzaddi ??
Organization: Prime Computer R&D
Date: Fri, 11 Dec 1992 20:13:20 GMT

In article <1992Dec11.075001.1@vax.sonoma.edu>, mccalld@vax.sonoma.edu writes:
|>         Why is Daath, knowledge, considered the false spheroth?

Why, indeed. 

|>          		Why is Tzaddi not the star?

My personal experience in this has been interesting. For AC, it meant 
an explicitly differentiating point (and some believe a more elegant 
interpretation than previous) of his 'found' version of the TARO, one 
I can't find fault with. For me, when I hear Tzaddi (or some symbol 
which brings forth to my mind 'Tz') likened to the Star, it seems to 
have been  a sign that...something is amiss. Kind of a touchstone 
through which I can garner a glimmer of more (or less) profound truth. 
Sometimes it's just a slight uneasyness, others it's a red flag 
(Bullshit detector?).  Whether simply a fiction of the mind, or a 
message from God, or both, it's proved (to me) fairly useful among 
innumerable occasions. 

--
Jason R. Pascucci
jasonp@primerd.prime.com