From: Bill.Carlson@p0.f18.n104.z1.FIDONET.ORG (Bill Carlson)
Newsgroups: alt.messianic
Subject: Humanism (personal Experience)
Date: 6 Jan 93 16:21:04 GMT
Organization: FidoNet node 1:104/18.0 - Midrash, Denver CO

To: strom@Watson.Ibm.Com

 RS> Date: 5 Jan 93 17:16:19 GMT
 RS> Organization: IBM Research
 RS> Message-ID: <1993Jan05.171619.61515@watson.ibm.com>
 RS> Newsgroups: alt.messianic
 RS> In article <LJMORLY.93Jan5125542@polaris.utu.fi>,
 RS> ljmorly@polaris.utu.fi (Laura Johanna Manninen) writes: 
 
 RS> The context was that David Harwood claimed that I was giving
 RS> an ignorant misinterpretation of Christianity in claiming that
 RS> the Christian position was that one must believe in Jesus
 RS> to be saved.  He argued that the true meaning was that one
 RS> must lead a righteous life in the pattern of Jesus.

          But both are true.  Faith is the "Door". -Then a hallway that
     one enters is a path of good-works/mitzvot as enabled by the
     Ruach HaKodesh; as says the New Covenant.  They go hand in
     hand.  For while it says: 'you are saved by grace through faith
     and not of works/mitzvot lest man should boast'; It also states:
     'faith without works/mitzvot is dead and stands alone.'
          The Tanakh also declares that: "the just shall live by
     faith", - but faith is not the only requirement in Tanakh.  For
     G-d has given the mitzvot, and required obediance.  Sha'ul
     talks about this in the New Covenant too, when he addressed that
     Avraham believed HaShem, and then he continued on and obeyed
     HaShem, and shows that he both believed and obeyed HaShem, and it
     was accounted unto him for righteousness.  If you are saying that
     it is by 'grace alone', then you are expressing a anti-nomian
     opinion.  While there have been groups down though the centuries
     who've taken that stance, (and indeed, on this news-group there
     very well may be some who take that stance), that is NOT, nor
     has it ever been mainstream "Christian" teaching.
          One thing that is interesting to note however, is that the
     New Covenant does propheticly address this problem of those who'd
     cast aside the Mitzvot of G-d's Holy Torah; - in that It states
     that in the "end-times" those who practice violation-of-the-Torah,
     (LAW-less-ness) will increase!

 |> Our *own* works have nothing to do with salvation.
 RS> And they confirm it again here.

     See above.

 RS> And again here.  You see --- you're not just "a Jew who believes
 RS> in Jesus".  You believe in hell.

     So do the Lubbavitcher!  Read: The Tales Of The Baal Shem Tov.

 RS> You believe Paul's contention that salvation is "not from
 RS> yourselves".

     That is not just "Paul's contention"; Tanakh says the same thing;
     that Salvation is from HaShem; and that apart from Him there is
     nothing.

 RS> Repentance is turning back to righteousness.  It means
 RS> facing the errors of one's ways and taking practical steps
 RS> to cure them.

     So it is in Messianic Judaism and Gentile Christianity.

... 012 Think not that I am come to annul the Torah or the Prophets: 210  
--  
Bill Carlson - via ParaNet node 1:104/422
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