HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: kbos@carina.unm.edu (Kurt "Some Guy" Bose)
Subject: Re: Keith Mitchell ???
Date: Fri, 20 Nov 92 12:06:08 GMT
Organization: University of New Mexico, Albuquerque

In article <1992Nov19.212818.5210@samba.oit.unc.edu> jmk.admin@mhs.unc.edu (Jim Kirkman) writes:
>In article <1992Nov19.163928.22839@mksol.dseg.ti.com> dansmith@mcopn2.dseg.ti.com (Dan Smith) writes:
>OK. First thing; who the heck is Donnie Elliot? (not Bill's bro I presume)
>:) He certainly never played in Durham (my hometown Class A Bulls) and I
>don't recall him from the G'ville roster so what gives on this guy.

Quite a bit, from the looks of it.  Or, rather, he doesn't give a whole lot.
He's 24, and had a 7-2 season in AA in half a year, giving up 111 baserunners
in 104 innings and striking out 9 men a game, while posting a 2.08 ERA.  I
gather he was injured part of the season...

>
>Secondly; what has Keith Mitchell done, made payments to people on the 
>net. I can't believe all the praise heaped upon him since this draft
>thing got going. First pick?!! Cummon guys and girls. Anyone got his stats
>from his time in the 'show' in 91?

Oh, nothing too special... .318/.392/.409 in limited duty.  Yeah, kind of a
letdown, after the .327/.401/.537 in the minors earlier in the year.  Of
course, he isn't a real prospect, since his .294/.411/.399 performance in the
Carolina League in 1990.  The guy is 23.  If you choose to believe that his
.226/.335/.308 performance in 1992 is his true ability, and he was just playing
over his head the four years before that, go right ahead...hey, how's Otis
Nixon doing?

>>
>>If this is true, then the Expansion teams are really bone-heads for passing
>>on Caraballo and Mitchell.
>>
>It's Cabrera, and its funny how little GM's know compared to experts on
>the net isn't it?

Well, maybe _some_ experts.  Ramon Caraballo is the player Dan was referring
to, not Francisco Cabrera.  23 years old (that's 2 years younger than Castilla)
and a .300 hitter at AAA Richmond and Greenville (.281 at AAA, .312 at AA). He
is a second baseman, and stole 30 bases this season, after swiping 50 bases at
Durham in 1991.

>Lastly, what about Olsen and his status for the draft?

What about it?  He's mediocre, 32, and available. So?

-- 
Kurt Bose (as in Daisy, not Rose) * kbos@carina.unm.edu * Make outs, not walks!
TONIGHT-In "Ryecatcher", Holden Caulfield foils a plot to turn his old prep
school into a right-wing military acadamy run by Neo-Nazis. 8PM(7PM C/M) Ch. 7
                                                        -The Book of Sequels...
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
From: tedward@cs.cornell.edu (Edward [Ted] Fischer)
Subject: Re: Marlins fans are merely jealous...
Organization: Cornell Univ. CS Dept, Ithaca NY 14853
Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1992 08:04:17 GMT

In article <wilbanks.722137910@spot.Colorado.EDU> wilbanks@spot.Colorado.EDU (Wendell Gee) writes:
>Well, Marlins fans, who suddenly think themselves supreme, think of this:
>
>1. the Rockies are not rich. We do not have a billionaire with an open 
>checkbook as an owner. We have a comglomeration of various people trying 
>to build a team on a shoestring budget So, if you more carefully analyze the
>draft, you see that the Rocks took a lot of quality minor league players to 
>stock at Colo. Springs and (insert some Eastern League team here). The 
>Marlins drafted a lineup for 1993-1995. The Rockies drafted for 1994-2000.

Actually, it seems to me that the exact opposite happened.  The
Rockies drafted guys like Girardi, Bichette, Cole, Gallaraga, etc...
The Marlins drafted a *lot* more kids.  IMHO, the Rockies have a
chance at a superiour team in 1993, but that by 1995 the Rockies will
be permanently ensconced in the cellar.  They wasted too many of their
high picks on overaged, overpriced, no-talents.

Admiteddly the Marlins *do* have Harvey and Weiss.  At that, I'm not
convinced that their team salary is as high as that of the Rockies.
Besides, I'm looking for Harvey to be traded to the Braves.  The
Braves need a closer, and the Braves have a *ton* of excess talent of
the quality the expansion teams need...  It's a match made in heaven.
Note that the Braves have an excess of outfielders, while the Marlins
have practically zero talent in the OF right now (they drafted some
cool infielders, though).

I haven't studied the complete lists...  But it seems to me that the
Rockies wasted several of their first-round draft picks.  I would be
*very* surprised if they ended up with as much talent as the Marlins.

-Valentine
From: rickert@NeXTwork.Rose-Hulman.Edu (John H. Rickert)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
Subject: Re: Post Draft Trade Results
Date: 19 Nov 1992 21:10:10 GMT
Organization: Computer Science Department at Rose-Hulman
Reply-To: rickert@NeXTwork.Rose-Hulman.Edu (John H. Rickert)
NNTP-Posting-Host: g215a-1.nextwork.rose-hulman.edu

In article <1992Nov19.104939.10141@netcom.com> arrow@netcom.com (Les Arrow)  
writes:
> In article <1992Nov18.194841.22894@dartvax.dartmouth.edu>  
Shawn.T.Burgess@dartmouth.edu (Shawn T. Burgess) writes:
> >
> >Kevin Reimer to Milwaukee for Dante Bichette
> 
> Could someone explain the reasoning behind this one for me?

OK. The Brewers were trying to get rid of Bichette while his market value was  
up rather than waiting until it went back down again (as in Bill Schroeder's  
case a few years ago). They were able to find someone impressed by his  
defense and fooled by his 1992 offensive stats.

john rickert
rickert@nextwork.rose-hulman.edu
From: genetic+@pitt.edu (Dr. Dave)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
Subject: Re: Seemingly unbreakable records
Date: 17 Nov 92 20:33:53 GMT
Organization: Department of Industrial Engineering

Thus spake gerry@macadam.mpce.mq.edu.au (Gerry Myerson):

>Among the records that HAVE been broken, which ones lasted the longest? 

>And Billy Hamilton's career stolen base record was unsurpassed for 78 years. 
>
>Do you know any records that lasted longer than this, but that were, 
>eventually, broken? I know one, but it's a bit more obscure [...]

I can't imagine, but this raises a question I've been wondering about for
a while: why isn't Billy Hamilton in the Hall of Fame?  (At least, he wasn't
last time I checked.)  Here's a guy who led the league in OBP a few times, 
and stole more than 900 bases.  I'd think that the oldtimers committees would
have fallen all over themselves to put him in, even if they think OBP is an
oil company...


-- 
       David Tate        |"Out of the dugout endlessly swinging,
 dtate@unix.cis.pitt.edu | Out of the manager's throat, the sound fundamentals,
 Prof. of Story Problems | Out of the six-month season..."            
 Member ORSA, TIMS, SABR | 	Walt "Lefty" Whitman
Organization: Senior, Electrical and Computer Engineering, Carnegie Mellon, Pittsburgh, PA
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
Date: Sun, 22 Nov 1992 11:42:43 -0500 
From: Amit Likhyani <al1x+@andrew.cmu.edu>
Subject: Re: Phillies #1

Excerpts from netnews.rec.sport.baseball: 22-Nov-92 Re: Phillies #1 by
MICHAEL L. SHERMAN@ns1.c 
> Damn, I've never seen such a moronic post, what does one call
Philadelphia for
>  
> short?  Answer: Philly, hence the name which pluralized for the team concept

I am all broken up.  Here are some team names:

Cleveland Clevies
Oakland Oaks
Atlanta Ats
Toronto Tors
New Yorks News(ha ha ha )

I still think they have the worst team name of any professional sports
franchise.

Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
From: eebonar@sn01.sncc.lsu.edu (Dave Bonar)
Subject: Re: Comments on NL protected lists
Nntp-Posting-Host-[nntpd-25773]: sn01.sncc.lsu.edu
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.3-4   
Reply-To: eebonar@sn01.sncc.lsu.edu
Organization: News and Views from LSU
Date: Tue, 17 Nov 1992 13:48:30 GMT

In article <1992Nov16.212946.4250@wuecl.wustl.edu>, jdd@wheezer.wustl.edu (John DeHart) writes...
>In article <56960@olivea.atc.olivetti.com> rsmith@strobe.ATC.Olivetti.Com (Russ Smith) writes:
>>In article <BxtIzE.3yD@news.cso.uiuc.edu> hbrooks@uiatma.atmos.uiuc.edu (Harold_Brooks) writes:
>>
>>So I am not the only one who wonders why the Cards protected Canseco. I
>>cannot make up my mind on Jordan, he is a great outfielder and has both
>>speed and pop, but he never walks, is already ~25 so he is an iffy guy
>>to protect. 
> 
>The word in the papers here was that it came down to Canseco and Alicea
>for the final spot on the protected list. The Cards are expecting to
>lose Alicea. They are now committed to Pena for second base.

	They'd rather risk ending up with Ozzie Canseco in the outfield then
ending up with Alicea at 2b or ss?  Pena seems to be the obvious choice for
second base.  However, Canseco is horrible and is 6th or so on the outfield
depth chart.  With Smith gone it looks like Alicea would be a nice backup to
both 2b and ss.
> 
>>Now if they are ready to let Ozzie go, and they did not protect Jose
>>Oquendo, who are they planning to play at shortstop next year?
> 
>Oquendo was injured enough last year that they probably figure noone
>would touch him. They might also be assuming that they will sign Ozzie (Smith of course).
>They seem to have had an attitude all along that things would work
>out and Ozzie would sign and stay with the Cards.
>There was an article in the Sunday paper about Ozzie's agent. 
>She, (no typo, she is one of two female agents in MLB) mentioned four
>clubs that had spoken to her about Ozzie. I only recall Toronto and the
>Yankees. 

	The word out of Houston is that the Astros are seriously interested.
If Ozzie has two more good years in him it would be a great fit.

Dave
__________
Dave Bonar
eebonar@lsuvax.sncc.lsu.edu
__________

Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
From: dae@cbnews.cb.att.com (david.a.elliott)
Subject: Re: the anti-hit is gone
Organization: AT&T
Distribution: na
Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1992 13:22:50 GMT

In article <Ef32w3G00WB5N7VV4h@andrew.cmu.edu> Amit Likhyani <al1x+@andrew.cmu.edu> writes:
>Jose Lind has been traded to the Kansas City Royals for Gary
>Moeller(spelling) and some guy named Johnson.

It's Dennis Moeller (Gary coaches Michigan football) and Joel Johnston.

Moeller is a lefty starter, Johnston a rightly reliever/starter.

Moeller is a marginal major league talent, and might make an OK 4 or 5
starter.  He had a nice ERA in AAA this year, but his peripheral stats were
nothing special.  He is on about the same level as Victor Cole, who the
Pirates got from KC in 91.

Johnston is a very hard thrower, but is quite wild.  He has been used
primarily in relief.  He has averaged about 1 K per inning in the the
minors, but he walks lots of guys.  Similar to Jose DeJesus (another former
Royal).  He turns 26 in March.

Now for the big question, just WHAT are the Royals doing?  They already have
a fine second baseman (Miller).  Lind hasn't played SS since A ball, and
Miller hasn't played much SS at all in his career.  If they are planning on
moving Miller to SS and playing Lind at 2B, they WHY did they protect Howard
in the draft???

This trade makes no sense at all to me.  They didn't give up a lot, but it
doesn't make sense to give up anything for a player you don't need.

If they are planning on moving Miller back to the OF and playing Lind and
Howard in the infield, I quit.  I hear the Indians are looking for new
fans....


Dave Elliott
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
From: rbd@flash.ece.uc.edu (Bobby Davis)
Subject: Sample HOF Ballot (mine)
Organization: University of Cincinnati, ECE Dept
Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1992 16:48:02 GMT

PLAYERS:

Johnny Bench
Yogi Berra
Eddie Collins
Bob Feller
Lefty Grove
Rogers Hornsby
Sandy Koufax
Christy Mathewson
Joe Morgan
Jackie Robinson

NONPLAYERS:

Kennesaw Mountain Landis
Connie Mack
John McGraw
Marvin Miller

Bob Davis	rbd@thor.ece.uc.edu
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
From: brea9430@mach1.wlu.ca (breadner kenneth cecil joseph u)
Subject: Re: Post-Draft Thoughts (was:Reaction to Rockies Draft)
Organization: Wilfrid Laurier University
Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1992 01:18:22 GMT

(we're talking about the Marlins here, and how well they did in the draft)
(....)
>
>>2b	Bret Barberie
>
>A steal!  Quality leadoff hitter, even if he only hits .230.  He even
>has decent speed.

It is, as they say, to laugh.
Being a Blue Jays fan, I've always said the same about Devon White batting
leadoff. But nobody ever listened to me. In fact, I'd get toasted
regularly for it. Now, strangely enough, here's somebody saying that a
quality leadoff hitter can hit .230.

As it so happens, I agree. 

-- 
Ken Breadner          |Wilfrid Laurier University, Waterloo, Canada
brea9430@mach1.wlu.ca |"Life is what happens when you're busy making other
(the BREADbox...)     |plans" --John Lennon
Disclaimer: you mean somebody's taking something I said SERIOUSLY?
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
From: s_bean@oz.plymouth.edu (Shaun P. Bean)
Subject: HOF Voting and Lobbying
Reply-To: s_bean@oz.plymouth.edu (Shaun P. Bean)
Organization: Plymouth State College - Plymouth, N.H.
Date: Sun, 22 Nov 92 21:02:01 GMT

Hello,

This is the ballot I sent in for RSB HOF.  What do you think?

 Johnny Bench
 Roberto Clemente
 Whitey Ford
 Bob Gibson
 Joe Jackson
 Al Kaline
 Sandy Koufax
 Jim Palmer
 Brooks Robinson
 Pete Rose 


These are the non-players I voted for

Connie Mack
Billy Martin
Kasey Stengel

I strongly believe that Billy Martin should get votes.  He must be
considered on of the greatest managers of all-time.  Come on and vote
for him.

shaun

Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
From: niepornt@phoenix.Princeton.EDU (David Marc Nieporent)
Subject: Re: Predictions '93
Originator: news@nimaster
Organization: Princeton University
Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1992 20:21:26 GMT

In article <1992Nov20.175702.7200@ncsu.edu> gcpahren@eos.ncsu.edu (GREGORY CHARLES PAHREN) writes:

>So with the expansion draft over, and some major trades out of the way,
>here is what I foresee in '93.

>The Colorado Rockies, with the way they drafted, will be competitive
>early.  They will probably even finish ahead of the Giants next year.

Why?  They have *1* good hitter out of the draft, Eric Wedge.  And one
adequate one, Alex Cole.

Their "pitching," aside from David Nied, leaves a lot to be desired.
Denis Boucher?  Scott Aldred AND Kevin Ritz?  Willie Blair?

Don't be fooled into thinking that because they picked a few people
you've heard of, they got anyone good.  It isn't true.

>The Marlins will be terrible next year but will have a better future.

The Marlins will be better next year AND in the future.

>However, with the current status of the National League East (the Pirates
>seem to be rebuilding despite 3 straight NL East titles), the Marlins
>could possibly become the first team in history to win a division while
>losing 100 games.

Montral has a good team.

>Just some thoughts.
>-Greg

-- 
David M. Nieporent   | Mike Mussina 1993 AL Cy Young Winner
niepornt@phoenix.    |------------------------------------ 
   princeton.edu     | "I still believe in a place called Hope."
Clinton/Gore '92.  Don't stop thinking about tomorrow.
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
From: drw3l@delmarva.evsc.Virginia.EDU (David Robert Walker)
Subject: Lineup projections
Organization: University of Virginia
Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1992 18:21:58 GMT

A quick little exercise here for the expansion teams. Using Bill
James' projections for 1992 (I know they are park-corrected, but its
close enough); assuming 675 plate appearances per lineup position (a
little high for NL, but close enough); projected runs for Florida and
Colorado.

Florida Marlins
              eqa   pa    eqr 
1b: Conine    .260   675   96
2b: Barberie  .240   675   82
3b: Donnels   .230   675   74
ss: Weiss     .205   675   59
of: Fariss    .240   505   61
of: Carr      .230   505   56
of: Felix     .235   505   59
of: Wilson    .255   505   71
c: Decker     .210   675   63
p, ph:        .160   675   36

total         .225   6075   657

Experience tells me these projections tend to run high by about 10%,
so we are reasonably looking at 600 runs from the Marlins next year.
An average NL team from '92 would score 640 in 6075 PA. A nearly
average offense.


Colorado Rockies

c: Wedge      .230    375   41
   Girardi    .210    300   28
1b:Galarraga  .230    675   75
2b: Young     .220    675   67
3b: Hayes     .220    675   67
ss: Benavides .165    675   39
of: Clark     .220    675   68
of:Cole       .225    675   72
of: Bichette  .220    675   68
p:            .160    675   36

total         .210    6075  561

The Rockies are looking at about 510 runs for next season. The Dodgers
were last in the league last year at 548. This is truly terrible.
But you know what? I'll bet if they truly perform at this level,
people will talk about how good their offense is, because that 561 is
for a neutral park. If Denver acts to the major leagues like it does
to the AA, and it should, we have a 1.15 PF, and around 645 runs.

The Rockies look to me like a team blinded by their park. They decided
early that 'guys with some pop in the bat' will look good in Denver.
Well, yes, they will look good, but they won't actually be good. All
of the above players have low eqa's because they have such low on-base
averages. The above lineup projects to a TEAM oba of, get this, .287.
Denver's effects may make that figure look more respectable, but this
is unbeleivably, ridiculously, inexcusably bad.

Park-adjusted 3.1 runs per game. If their pitching staff is average,
and hoolds opponents to 3.88 rpg, that comes to 63-99. If their staff
is a bit below average, say 4.25 rpg, that is 56-106. If their staff
is at the level of last year's Phillies, 4.5 rpg, they drop to 52 wins.

The last bit is an exercise to show how bad you have to be to match
the Mets' 40 wins. I will bet now that Florida beats Colorado by at
least 10 games this year. Bets off if the Rockies sign Bonds. :-)

Clay D.
From: dittrich@sal-sun57.usc.edu (Matt Dittrich)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
Subject: Can Dunston really hit? (was Re: Maduux gone, Cubs alive?)
Date: 23 Nov 1992 12:32:59 -0800
Organization: University of Southern California, Los Angeles, CA
NNTP-Posting-Host: sal-sun57.usc.edu

guest@sili (Rockin' Robyn) writes:

[...]
>The return
>of Dunston to the infield will again hurt OBP....

Does anyone else out there think that Dunston's hitting last year (.316?) was
a sign of things to come?  That '92 may have been the year that he starts 
Living Up To His Potential?  He seemed to really have a bit of control at 
the plate;  it wasn't just that the balls were dropping into the holes for him.

Or maybe it's just me.  sigh.


>	Comments or suggestions are appreciated.  Go Chicago (Cubs, Bears,
>Bulls, Hawks.............)

Many thanks for dodging the bandwagon and omitting the White Sox.  A refreshing
change.  Although I have to wonder when I look at your "in real life" name....

>------------------------------------robert allen hercey
>				    guest@sili.isgs.uiuc.edu
>.~r .sign
>


-- 
                                                               __
Matt Dittrich    | "Well the god I believe in        |        /  `
dittrich@usc.edu |      isn't short on cash, Mister" |   GO  |  UBS
                 |       -Bono on televangelists     |        \__,
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
From: jdd@wheezer.wustl.edu (John DeHart)
Subject: Re: Worrell & Smith
Organization: Washington University, St. Louis MO
Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1992 19:15:28 GMT

In article <75559@hydra.gatech.EDU> gt0317c@prism.gatech.EDU (BHANSALI,ANIL P) writes:
>Does anyone know the situation of Lee Smith?  I know St. Louis is trying
>to trade him.  Is Worrell definitely not returning to St. Louis is 
>Lee Smith is not traded.  I know he's a free agent, but i don't know
>who else is really interested.
>
>Thanks
>bonzo
>
>-- 
>BHANSALI,ANIL P
>Georgia Institute of Technology, Atlanta Georgia, 30332
>uucp:	  ...!{decvax,hplabs,ncar,purdue,rutgers}!gatech!prism!gt0317c
>Internet: gt0317c@prism.gatech.edu

Basically, Worrell has stated point blank that he wants to be THE closer
for some team. My personal belief is that the Cards should get what they
can for Smith now and sign Worrell. Perhaps that should be done in the
opposite order or they would probably end up losing both of them.
I think Smith is almost at the end, he was showing signs of some potential
nagging problems. Worrell looked promising coming back from his injuries.
But then maybe they should dump both and go after Reardon ;-).

John DeHart
jdd@arl.wustl.edu
Washington University, St. Louis Mo.
From: niepornt@phoenix.Princeton.EDU (David Marc Nieporent)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
Subject: Re: Mitchell for Charlton and other trades.
Date: 19 Nov 92 16:24:22 GMT
Organization: Princeton University
Originator: news@nimaster

In <1992Nov19.104541.10005@netcom.com> arrow@netcom.com (Les Arrow) writes:
>In <1ed1pcINNhvp@darkstar.UCSC.EDU> srobson@ucscb.UCSC.EDU (Seth I Robson):

>>Well, the Seattle Mariners and Cinninnati Reds have gotten together on a
>>rather intriguing swap: Kevin Mitchell comes back to the NL West in
>>exchange for Norm Charlton.  It looks like Cincinnati is not only willing
>>to wager that Dibble's 1992 troubles are past him, but also that Mitchell's
>>1991-2 troubles are past _him_.  At the very least, that leaves Reggie 
>>Sanders and Roberto Kelly to squabble over who plays right field... :-)
>>Did the Reds send anybody else to Seattle with Charlton?

>>I wouldn't call a clear winner in this trade--yet.  The Mariners got a
>>solid relief pitcher, and the Reds got a big wild card.  Time is almost
>>out for Kevin Mitchell, but I wouldn't 100% count him out from having a 1990-
>>like season again sometime, assuming he stays somewhat healthy and out of
>>any off-field shenanigans.

>I really like this trade for both sides. Seattle, finally has a player
>to stabilize their bullpen. If Schooler can come back, he can still be a decent
>setup man, IMHO. Seattle, if they can now find a leadoff man should be
>a reasonable contender. Maybe Greg Briley finally?

And, in one of the most incomprehensible picks of the entire draft, they
lost Calvin Jones, he of the 5.69 ERA, and, yes 29! years old.

Why would the Rockies rather take Calvin Jones than gamble on Salkeld's
health?

Wait, I just re-read what you were saying.  And I'm not clear on exactly
what it meant.  Are you claiming they should make Greg Briley their
leadoff man?  Greg Briley, of the career .320 OBP?  Greg Briley, who put
up a .290 OBP last year?  Greg Briley?

>Of course, I'm assuming that the destruction of their starters last year is
>not real and that they should bounce back, namely Holman and Hanson. With
>Fleming and Johnson in the top four as well, that's not too bad a starting 
>staff.

>With starters on the field like Griffey Jr, Tino and Edgar Martinez,
>Buhner, and Boone, they could have enough offense to make something of it.
>Personally, I look forward to watching this team next year.

Well, they aren't great, but any team with Griffey and Edgar has
something major going for it.

-- 
David M. Nieporent   | Mike Mussina 1993 AL Cy Young Winner
niepornt@phoenix.    |------------------------------------ 
   princeton.edu     | "I still believe in a place called Hope."
Clinton/Gore '92.  Don't stop thinking about tomorrow.