HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: dfo@tko.vtt.fi (Foxvog Douglas)
Subject: Re: Somalia an Arab country??? no! [was: It's Blood for Oill, again.]
Organization: VTT
Date: Thu, 17 Dec 1992 09:27:46 GMT

In article <ashabana.724138683@uclagsm> ashabana@agsm.ucla.edu (Ahmed Shabana) writes:
>Lots of stuff deleted
>>>               widely scattered throughout the Near East, North Africa,
>>>               and the Arabian Peninsula [including Somalia].
>>                        ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>>					   ?????????????????

>>Somalia is NOT on the Arabian Peninsula. It's across Red Sea or
>>Indian Ocean from the Arabian Peninsula.  
>>It is not part of Near East, or North Africa, it is located in 
>>East Africa south of the Saharan desert.  

>Yes, technically Somalia is in the Horn of Africa.

"Technically"????  Somalia encompasses the Horn of Africa.  The Horn
also includes a small triagle of Ethiopia which juts into Somalia.  That
is all that the Horn is.

>>>            3. Any of a nomadic people living in in Near Estearn and
>>>               North African desert regions.

>>>    According to the Boston Globe (Dec. 6, 1992), Somali is the national
>>>    language, Arabic is an official language, English and Italian are also 
>>>    spoken.

>>Since it's a Islamic country, it's quite normal for Somalians to pray
>>in Arabic.  But I think we all agreed that everyone over there speaks
>>Somali.  I mean hey, Chinese Muslims prays in Arabic too.  

>>>    Finally, Somalia is a member of the Arab League.

>>really?  i didn't know that.  It's definitely in some Muslim nation
>>organizations, I really don't think Ethopia & Somalia are in the 
>>Arab League, can someone confirm this?  

>Some clarifications at this point:

>1- Ethiopia is not an Arab Country.

Correct, just like Somalia.

>2- Somalia joined the Arab League ( which was established circa 47)
>rather late in the 70's ( Sorry I don't have the exact date handy).

Correct.

>3-One possible interpretation on why Somali is the national language while 
>Arabic is the "official" 
           ^^^  
FALSE, it is "an" official language (see the _Boston_Globe_ reference)
alongside Somali.  I don't know if English is also an Official Language.
Anyone know?

>could be that the Somali language lacks a written
>form ( The New American Desk Encyclopedia p.1099) an important
>requirement in "official governmental languages".

You must have an old Encyclopedia (although it claims to be "new" 8)E ).
Somalia defined a written form for its language in the 1960's (or early
70's?) after independence.  There was a debate at the time whether to
use the Latin or Arabic alphabet.  It was decided in favor of the Latin
alphabet (probably because literate Somalis at the time read either
colonial language: English or Italian).

>Hope that clarifes some points.

Correct "facts" clarify things better.  I suggest you go to your local
library and take out a book or two on Somalia before posting wild
claims.  I did (check out and read books, not make wild claims).

>Ahmed A. Shabana	         |
>Anderson Graduate School of Mgmt.|
>U.C.L.A.                         |

-- 
doug foxvog     
dfo@tko.vtt.fi
From: mcgredo@prism.CS.ORST.EDU (Don McGregor)
Newsgroups: alt.activism
Subject: Hiss redux
Followup-To: alt.activism.d
Date: 17 Dec 1992 20:53:22 GMT
Organization: Oregon State University, Computer Science Dept.
NNTP-Posting-Host: prism.cs.orst.edu

NY Times News Service:

The Russian official who was reported to have cleared Alger Hiss of spying for
the Soviet Union says he was "not properly understood," and that he
only meant to say he found no evidence of the charges in the KGB
documents to which he had access.

The official, Gen Dmitry Volkogonov, a military historian who has been
closely involved in studying various Soviet-era archives, said that at Hiss'
request he had searched through KG files for the 1930s and 1940s, and in 
them found only one mention of Hiss, in a list of diplomats at the UN.

"I was not properly understood," he said in a recent interview.  "The ministry
of Defense also has an intelligence service, which is totally different,
and many documents have been destroyed.  I only looked through what
the KGB had.  All I said was that I saw no evidence."

[...]

Volkogonov's acknowledgement that he was in no position to fully
clear Hiss confirmed the cautions of many US historians who had
warned that a categorical vindication was dubious, tgiven the volume,
complexity and incompleteness of available Soviet archives.

[...]

Volkongonov said he was "a bit taken aback" by the commotion his letter
caused.  He acknowledged that his motive in writing the letter was 
"primarily humanitarian," to relieve the anguish of a man approaching
death.

"Hiss wrote that he was 88 and would like to die peacefully, that he wanted
to prove that he was never a paid, contracted spy," Volkogonov said.
"what I saw gives no basis to claim a full clarification.  There's no
guarantee that it was not destroyed, that it was not in other channels."

-- 
Don McGregor             | "Adventure without risk is Disneyland."
mcgredo@prism.cs.orst.edu|       --Douglas Coupland
Newsgroups: alt.activism,talk.politics.misc,ca.politics
From: davei@wam.umd.edu (The One True Dave)
Subject: Re: Spaying and neutering alles!!!
Organization: University of Maryland, College Park
Date: Tue, 15 Dec 1992 20:15:10 GMT

In article <1992Dec15.191606.24014@blaze.cs.jhu.edu> arromdee@jyusenkyou.cs.jhu.edu (Ken Arromdee) writes:
>In article <1992Dec15.161152.2066@wam.umd.edu> rsrodger@wam.umd.edu (Yamanari) writes:
>>	We're waging a military operation to restore the
>>	flow of R E L I E F supplies.  Doesn't anyone else see 
>>	anything wrong with this?  Christ, all these people saying
>>	the problem is the warlords and so on--the problem isn't 
>>	them, the problem is that THE LAND CAN'T SUPPORT THEM.  If it 
>>	could, there wouldn't be relief supplies to block.  
>
>Not true.  The fighting not only makes it hard to get relief supplies in, but
>also is one of the reasons they _need_ relief supplies in the first place:
>war makes it hard to grow things.
>--
>"the bogosity in a field equals the bogosity imported from related areas, plus
>the bogosity generated internally, minus the bogosity expelled or otherwise
>disposed of."  -- K. Eric Drexler
>
>Ken Arromdee (arromdee@jyusenkyou.cs.jhu.edu, arromdee@jhunix.hcf.jhu.edu)


There's also the fact that this isn't Ethiopia. The people there have
enough food to eat. The food just isn't where the people are. The 
warlords' ruffians (I won't even glorify them by calling them soldiers)
came and took their food away so they would starve. They even took the
seed corn so nothing could be grown next year.

As for neutering them- we don't have enpugh jobs in the US, so your
kids will be unemployed. To save them from this, we're taking your
testes, too.

We're sendingover your share of the food, so, since you're starving,
we'll take your wife's ovaries.

Not very funny when it's you, is it?

Newsgroups: alt.activism,alt.current-events.somalia
From: ausdal@ece.scarolina.edu (Thi Van Ausdal)
Subject: Spaying and neutering alles!!!
Organization: USC  Department of Computer Science
Date: 15 Dec 92 15:00:24 GMT

rsrodger@wam.umd.edu (Yamanari) writes:

>	Christ, why should we pay to feed a bunch
>	of people who haven't figured out that ol' equation:
> 
>	Don't have more kids than you can feed. 
>	Survival of the fittest, I say.  Good riddance.

OK, now it's been said (glad I wasn't the first one to say it) and I'll
build on that thread.
While I agree it sucks for the people starving in Somalia, on account of
they ARE dying, I would definitely put a lien on the mercenary aid to the
drought-torn country.  What the hell am I talking about?  

	I say we spay and neuter them.  50% of males, 50% of females.
Even numbered children. Something.  Hell, it works for our dog and 
cat population here in America.  While there are those who will gawk 
like birds and cry "but they're not dogs and cats" (which is true, 
I've seen cocker spaniels who outweigh most of Somalia) but think about
the one of the reasons for the population there.  Somalis, like most of 
the third world, is but the second generation or so since the arrival 
of white man's medicine, nutrition, etc.  
	Before, it was a necessary part of their culture to churn out 
children like a factory, since half of them died before they were four 
years old.  Now, thanks to our meddling, the life expectancy is climbing. 
GREAT.  Well, you can cure the diptheria, influenza, rabies, whatever, 
like that (snap fingers) but you cannot re- move from their upbringing 
the natural drive, and the cultural imperatives, to multiply.  As in 
other cultures, it's more MANLY to have six children than four, etc.
And wham-o, there's twice the population density.  Thrice.  
	The rain doesn't fall.  And everybody starves.   So, as cruel 
as it may be, it is for their best interests short term to do that.  
And while we're occupying their homeland for the next century, we 
can indoctrinate them with the Western idea of two (2) children. China
had to have forced abortions, sterilizations, and so forth to enforce 
their ban on multiple children under the Commie regime.  That may be 
what Somalia needs.   

	There are two problems with this plan I can see (I'll save you 
the typing):
	1.  The sterilized children will be disenfranchised.  It would
suck living your life with no "purpose" biologically.  But then again,
so does DYING OF STARVATION.  
	2.  They'd lie through their teeth ("oh, this is my first child",
"well, how come you had stretch marks last year?") about the children.  
The natural desire to protect their children from danger would be under-
mine their nation's welfare.
	These problems, and others, have to be addressed to make this plan
work. Of course, we could put saltpeter in their rice (Catholic school 
joke).
	
	That's cool, we have B-52's and all the 500-lb. bombs we need to
barbecue half the country and feed the rest with them. 
		END WORLD HUNGER
			KILL ALL THE STARVING PEOPLE.
Xref: sparky alt.activism:19552 bit.listserv.catholic:3363
From: bfrg9732@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (Brian F. Redman)
Subject: Re: Rape After Rape After Rape
Organization: University of Illinois at Urbana
Date: Fri, 18 Dec 1992 14:22:19 GMT

imran@mbcl.rutgers.edu writes:


>Hello,

>	What follows is an article from the New York Times.  Why am I posting
>it here?  I feel that some of the issues pertain to at least some of the
>threads I have seen in this group (and the other groups that I am posting to).
>The article is about the calculated destruction of the Bosnian Muslims.  The
>article contains extremely graphic descriptions of brutality, torture, and
>rape.  

I refer you to World War I and the infamous "Rape of the Belgium Nuns."
At that time similar allegations were trumpeted in this country. Predictably,
an outraged U.S. citizenry called for action on the part of the U.S.
to put a halt to such horrors on the part of the evil "Hun." (i.e. German)
After the hysteria had died down, it turned out that there had been no
"rape of the Belgium nuns" after all. But by then this didn't matter.
The thirst of the permanent war economy of the U.S. had been satisfied.
The propaganda machine had stirred up the populace and the factories
churned out the machinery of death.

Or again, how about the Spanish-American war of 1898? At that time
one of our battleships, the Maine, blew up and sank while docked
in the harbor at Havana, Cuba. The newspapers sounded the alarm.
The Cubans had attacked our ship! "Remember the Maine!" became
our battle cry and we went to war. Later, of course, it turned
out that we had sunk our own ship so as to stir up the populace
and give us an excuse to once more go to war.

Your article is from the New York Times, hardly a trustworthy
source in my opinion. Here is a quote from an excellent book
I can recommend to you, "Plausible Denial" by Mark Lane (Thunder's
Mouth Press, New York 1991): "Ritualistically, every few years,
the *New York Times* ...devote pages of analysis to the recent 
past of the CIA and conclude, with a banal predictability, that 
while the agency had committed numerous crimes... the auspicious
news is that the agency is now firmly in good hands." This
book is chock full of similar quotes. They all have in common
a tendency to lead one to believe that our "free press," including
the *New York Times*, is not always to be trusted.


Brian Redman
(bfrg9732@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu)
"Ah yes, Armageddon. I remember it well."



Xref: sparky alt.activism:19711 talk.environment:5139
From: bfrg9732@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (Brian F. Redman)
Subject: Re: Don't be silly, please
Organization: University of Illinois at Urbana
Date: Thu, 17 Dec 1992 21:34:23 GMT

davei@wam.umd.edu (The One True Dave) writes:

>In article <4z-r5==@dixie.com> karl@dixie.com (Karl Klingman) writes:

[...stuff deleted...]

>Your cynicism is duly noted. However, your paranoia has
>blotted out your view of reality. The people who run this
>country are human beings, with human emotions. I understand
>that most people see the US government as a bunch of evil
>plotters in revolving conspiracies plotting to dehumanize
>and control every person on the planet. Actually, they're
>just a bunch of people trying to do a difficult job and,
>more often than not, doing a good job in general with a
>few errors that people love to point out as proof of their
>foul intentions.

Hmmm.... how about this... let's go back to the 30's and 40's
in Nazi Germany. We can transpose your statements from above
into this new locale. The people who were running Germany were
human beings with human emotions also. The top level of their
government was what I would define as evil -- genocide on such
a huge scale would definitely qualify them for that. Of course,
one could say that they were "...just a bunch of people trying
to do a difficult job..." One could even argue that "gee whiz,
they were efficient" or, as you put it, "...more often than
not, doing a good job in general with a few errors that people
love to point out [the meanies!]" So, transposing your argument
to a new locale it is quite easy to declare "Hey, we were just
following orders."


Brian Redman
(bfrg9732@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu)
"What? Me worry?"
From: ashabana@agsm.ucla.edu (Ahmed Shabana)
Subject: Re: Somalia an Arab country??? no! [was: It's Blood for Oill, again.]
Date: 11 Dec 92 22:09:59 PST

Lots of stuff deleted


>>    Don't let racial stereotypes interfere with the learning process:
>>
>>    Here's a definition taken from The American Heritage Dictionary:
>>
>>    Arab    1. A native or inhabitant of Arabia
>>            2. Any of a Semitic people originally from Arabia but later
>>               widely scattered throughout the Near East, North Africa,
>>               and the Arabian Peninsula [including Somalia].
>                        ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>					   ?????????????????

>Somalia is NOT on the Arabian Peninsula. It's across Red Sea or
>Indian Ocean from the Arabian Peninsula.  
>It is not part of Near East, or North Africa, it is located in 
>East Africa south of the Saharan desert.  

Yes, technically Somalia is in the Horn of Africa.

>>            3. Any of a nomadic people living in in Near Estearn and
>>               North African desert regions.
>>
>>    According to the Boston Globe (Dec. 6, 1992), Somali is the national
>>    language, Arabic is an official language, English and Italian are also 
>>    spoken.
>>
>Since it's a Islamic country, it's quite normal for Somalians to pray
>in Arabic.  But I think we all agreed that everyone over there speaks
>Somali.  I mean hey, Chinese Muslims prays in Arabic too.  

>>    Finally, Somalia is a member of the Arab League.

>really?  i didn't know that.  It's definitely in some Muslim nation
>organizations, I really don't think Ethopia & Somalia are in the 
>Arab League, can someone confirm this?  

Some clarifications at this point:

1- Ethiopia is not an Arab Country.

2- Somalia joined the Arab League ( which was established circa 47)
rather late in the 70's ( Sorry I don't have the exact date handy).

3-One possible interpretation on why Somali is the national language while 
Arabic is the "official" could be that the Somali language lacks a written
form ( The New American Desk Encyclopedia p.1099) an important
requirement in "official governmental languages".

Hope that clarifes some points.

Ahmed
--
_____________________________________________________________________
Ahmed A. Shabana	         |
Anderson Graduate School of Mgmt.|
U.C.L.A.                         |
From: mdl@cypress.com (Matt Landrum)
Subject: Re: Democratic definitions
Organization: Cypress Semiconductor Southeast Design Center
Distribution: na
Date: Mon, 14 Dec 1992 02:39:43 GMT

In article <1992Dec12.204514.10662@leela.cs.orst.edu> casspa@atlantis.CS.ORST.EDU (Paul Cass) writes:

   Do you consider yourself liberal, moderate, conservative and why do 
   you feel that is the most appropriate approach?

   Paul

The moderate man is the just man -- Aristotle :-)

Most moderate democats (in my observation) seem to be 
fiscally conservative and socially liberal, 
emphasizing personal responsibility.
--


Matt Landrum                    | mdl@cypress.com
Cypress Southeast Design Center | office: (601) 324-4609, FAX - 4614
1 Research Blvd, Suite 200      | "There's a fine line between 
Starkville, MS  39759           |  stupid and clever" -- Spinal Tap


Newsgroups: alt.activism,misc.activism.progressive,soc.rights.human
From: rsrodger@wam.umd.edu (Yamanari)
Subject: Re: Somalia an Arab country??? no! [was: It's Blood for Oill, again.]
Organization: University of Maryland, College Park
Date: Thu, 17 Dec 1992 20:25:24 GMT

In article <1992Dec17.094605.14452@ousrvr.oulu.fi> dfo@tko.vtt.fi (Foxvog Douglas) writes:
>In article <1992Dec15.010009.4765@wam.umd.edu> rsrodger@wam.umd.edu (Yamanari) writes:
>>In article <Bz9vK3.MJ2@apollo.hp.com> goykhman_a@apollo.hp.com (Alex Goykhman) writes:
>>Christ, why should we pay to feed a bunch
>You ask him?  He commanded his followers to feed the hungry.

	It's an expletive.  In the future, I'll use, "Dammit".

>>	Don't have more kids than you can feed. 
>They certainly could feed them until the civil war and famine came at
>the same time.  


	But it's been five years, almost.  On all those TV reports, I
	see a helluva lot of young children.  Now, I suppose some of these
	could be stunted (older) children, but I assume that most of
	them are, indeed, young children.


	[bunch of blame-theUS crap deleted, with lots of high-quality
	logic like, "If we hadn't supported X, nothing bad would have
	happened"]

>drought in the 70's but the USSR provided sufficient aid so that there
>was no mass starvation as there was in neighboring Ethiopia.


	How many times are these droughts and famines going to happen
	before these people realize that the land there is just not good--
	or not good enough to support the numbers of people they're 
	breeding up to.


>>	Survival of the fittest, I say.  Good riddance.
>This comment is disgusting.


	Perhaps you feel so.  I don't.  Better they stop now than
	go on starving for another 5 or 10 years, bringing more
	and more children along to starve.

>>	"If you can't eat sand, why the hell are you living in a desert?"
>If you can't eat dirt, why are you living in a land with topsoil?


	'Cause stuff grows on topsoil. 

>>Robert Stephen Rodgers    rsrodger@wam.umd.edu  (Yamanari)   
>Above signature left out for some reason.

	It clutters up my sig, and since we're restricted to 
	4 lines, I dropped it.  anyone interested can finger my account
	the same way you did, because I've made my .plan open specifically
	for that purpose.


-- 
	"If you can't eat sand, why the hell are you living in a desert?"

	     Rule 1:  "Don't have more children than you can feed."
	  	  Nuclear redevelopment for a better world!
Newsgroups: alt.activism.d,talk.politics.drugs,alt.privacy
From: bear@tigger.cs.Colorado.EDU (Bear Giles)
Subject: Re: 100 Percent Drug-Free Workforce Achieved by Security Firm
Organization: National Oceanic & Atmospheric Adminstration / Boulder Labs
Date: Sun, 13 Dec 1992 01:14:40 GMT

In article <1992Dec9.025953.7691@mont.cs.missouri.edu> Nigel Allen <nigel.allen@canrem.com> writes:
> 100 Percent Drug-Free Workforce Achieved by Security Firm; Company
>is a Model for U.S. Service Firms
> To: Business Editors
> Contact: Leonard Borrino or Mike Lipman of Makovsky & Co. Inc.,
>          212-532-6300

Did anyone actually publish this?  I would love to call the editor and
report that they need to run a correction -- the fact the employees
all tested clean does _not_ prove that the employees _are_ all drug-free
as every drug test of this type has a non-zero error rate (with both
false positives and false negatives).

This is like the fight a few years ago over two (out of thousands)
State (or Justice?) department employees who tested positive during a
routine test before promotion.  As I recall, one of their defenses was
the false positive test (if you run a test with a 2% false positive rate
on 5000 people, 5000 * .02 * .02 or 2 people will falsely test positive
on _two_ tests).  That seems much more credible than middle-aged managers
doing drugs while waiting for a promotion -- when they know they have to
pass a drug test to get it!


-- 
Bear Giles		Fluorescent lights are almost 3 1/2 times more
bear@fsl.noaa.gov	efficient than iridescent lights. 
			Colorado Daily, 13-15 November 1992
From: brian@coombs.anu.edu.au (Brian)
Newsgroups: alt.activism.d
Subject: Re: John McCarthy at it again (Was: Re: Sandinistas at it again)
Date: 14 Dec 92 06:24:18 GMT
Organization: Australian National University
NNTP-Posting-Host: 150.203.76.2

jmc@SAIL.Stanford.EDU (John McCarthy) writes:

>Has the credibility of this alleged manual been questioned?

	Oh, dear John, how can you?  I mean, how can you question
the credibility of a manual which your own government has been forced
to admit existed and had been written by its own employees?

	Get real John, you're on very, very shaky ground.

>Which actual Sandinista officials were assassinated?  Certainly
>not any of the top ones, whereas the to contra guy Enrique
>Bermudez was assassinated when he returned to Nicaragua to
>take part in politics.

	How about all the civilians who were killed and terrorised
by the contras John?  Don't they count?  Or do you have an institutional
interest in the brutal use of torture and terror to further the political
aims of your country?


--
Brian Ross_____Brian@Coombs.anu.edu.au________________________________________
	"Three discoveries are essential to the contented and civilised life -
sex, wine, and bookshops, by no means necessarily in that order."
_________________________________Tony Baker, Adelaide Review, October 1992____
From: prs9k@brain.med.virginia.edu (Phil Scarr)
Subject: Re: Protest US Troops to Somalia
Organization: Neuroclinical Trials Center, University of Virginia
Date: Sun, 13 Dec 1992 19:44:24 GMT

This article is so cynical I can't even BEGIN to comment on it.  It is a
sad and embarassing day for us lefties when crap like this appears in
m.a.p.

	-Phil
-- 
PHIL SCARR        \      We are Microsoft...     /          (o) 804.243.0229
 University of    /     OS/2 is irrelevant.      \          (f) 804.243.0290
 Virginia,        \     UNIX is irrelevant.      /        prs9k@Virginia.EDU
 Neurosurgery     /     Openness is futile.      \     prs9k@Virginia.BITNET
 HP-UX is my life!\ Prepare to be assimilated... /   ...uunet!virginia!prs9k