From: clmn@ellis.uchicago.edu (Bill Coleman)
Subject: Re: Living in Israel - Voting in USA
Reply-To: clmn@midway.uchicago.edu
Organization: Live & Direct from Downtown Petah Tikva ISRAEL
Date: Sun, 22 Nov 1992 00:51:33 GMT

On the subject of American olim retaining their US citizenship and
voting in US elections...
 
Sam Saal quotes me and then writes:
 
>>Reason one I find very harmful.  Citizens of a foreign state, all Jews,
>>voting in US elections so as to advance the interests of their new home.
>>This does incalcuable harm to American Jews and opens them to charges of
>>divided loyalty, and with some justification.
>
>Don't worry about "them" hating "us."  Those that would, would regardless
>of this issue.
 
I think this is a very bad attitude.  It's as if to say, since anti-
Semites hate us no matter what we do, then anything we do is OK.
 
I agree with Sam that anti-Semites will hate us no matter what; however,
I'm less concerned about the anti-Semites than I am about people of good
will who will see bad behavior by the Jews and take it as a poor reflec-
tion upon Judaism.  My reference was to divided loyalty. Let me be a bit
more specific.
 
Suppose that the recent presidential election had been a little bit
closer:  Close enough to be decided by New York's electoral votes.  And
imagine that the popular vote total in New York was very close.  Suppose
it turns out that 25,000 votes were cast in New York by Israelis and
that their votes provided the victory margin.  Imagine, finally, that
the Jewish leadership gloats in public at this show of power (would it?)
and interviews in Israel get quotes like, "I voted for Clinton because
Bush and Baker were bad for Israel".
 
Does anybody seriously think this would be good for the Jews?
 
Rabbi Charles Arian wrote:
 
>Without taking a side in this debate between Bill and the rest of the known
>universe :-), it strikes me that there is a very good and very moral reason
>for American-born Jews living in Israel to retain their U.S. citizenship.
>
>Most such people still have many relatives in the States, and like to visit
>them on occasion. Retaining the US passport greatly facilitates such visits.
>
>It is often difficult, sometimes impossible, for Israelis to get tourist
>visas to the States; particularly so for Israelis in their 20s and 30s
>unless they have a business or property in Israel.
>
>If you give up your US citizenship there is the possibility of being denied
>the ability to visit parents and other relatives in the States.
 
This I don't understand.  Other than having to waste time at the United
States embassy, why should it be difficult to obtain tourist visas?
Doesn't the US encourage tourism?  Why should the US government care
about people in their 20s and 30s owning businesses or property in
Israel?  I can understand why the Israeli government would care about
that, since the people in question are prime candidates for Army callup.
But doesn't an Israeli citizen in this category require Army permission to
leave the country whether he has a US passport or not?
 
Yigal Arens wrote:
 
>So I guess that's what Zionis>
>1900: The only place a Jew can lead a normal life is a Jewish state.
>1950: A Jewish state should be maintained so that Jews abroad have a
>      place to go to if they feel like it.
>1990: A Jew in the Jewish state should maintain contact with a safe haven
>      abroad, you never know when you or your descendents will wish to
>      move there.
 
Looks like Rabbi Arian was slightly mistaken, at least!
 
Last week I visited a friend in Jerusalem whom I had known in Chicago.
She went to school in the United States but is a German citizen.  She
made aliyah, married a native born Israeli, and they have a beautiful
one year old son.  Her current project is to obtain a German passport
for him.  Why?  So that, when he grows up, he will be free to live or
work "anywhere in Europe!".
 
My Australian friends whom I mentioned in my last post have spent the
past two years working on obtaining British passports for their
children, the mother being a native of the UK.
 
You see I'm not trying to pick just on Americans.
 
Why do I think any of this matters?  My daughter was active in B'nei
Akiva in Chicago and is here as well.  One evening we were visiting the
family of one of her friends and, in the course of conversation, I asked
the mother a question.  I said that I understood what B'nei Akiba tries
to do in American (encourage aliyah) but what's the point here?  She
said, "Same thing."  When I didn't immediately get the point, she said,
"How many Israelis do you know in Chicago?  Lots?  Well, it's a national
problem, we've got to convince the children to believe in Zionism."
 
Who knows, but I can't help feeling that many of these people who are so
intent on retaining foreign nationality are going to wind up being one
generation Israeli families.       


-- 
Bill Coleman
clmn@midway.uchicago.edu
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish