HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: lliou@sdcc3.ucsd.edu (Lily Liou )
Newsgroups: rec.food.sourdough
Subject: Requests for starters filled
Keywords: starters
Date: 27 Aug 92 06:05:01 GMT
Distribution: na
Organization: University of California, San Diego

Hi everyone, how are things in the
world of sourdough?
This is just a quick note to say that I've sent
out all the SASEs that I've received so far.

Starter should start appearing in the mailboxes
of the following people soon:
John Mangrich
David Early
Janet Kass
Richeard Hatch
Chris Teegarden

Anyone else who has sent a request recently might
want to e-mail me in a few days to see if it arrived
here.

The starters I sent out work fine in general with David Adma's
FAQ on starting cultures from dry form.
The Alaskan culture does well at relatively lower temp that
the others, ie room temperature (60-75) is good.  

Have fun!  Let me know how things work out.

-Lily
.


Newsgroups: rec.food.sourdough
From: dadams@cray.com (David Adams)
Subject: Re: more on the biology of sourdough
Reply-To: dadams@cray.com
Organization: Cray Research, Inc.
Date: 27 Aug 92 14:38:22 CDT

Charles> == Charles Delwiche
| == Christina Callihan

Charles> This article is also of interest because it studied the
Charles> plasmid content of bacteria in sourdough starter (if you know what
Charles> that means, you might want to look at the paper).  
|
|Plasmids are little loops of DNA (genetic material) that are separate from
|the main bacterial chromosome.  They are interesting because bacteria can
|trade genetic information in a process called conjugation.  So you can
|trace plasmids through different strains to see which ones have the same
|loops.  Bacteria can acquire different traits (i.e. resistance to certain
|antibiotics) by receiving the right plasmids.  

So if I understand this, (let's see if I do) plasmids kind of relate
to bacteria the way that mitochondria do to animal cells, or chloroplasts
do to plant cells?

Is the idea you mention that conjugation leaves the DNA in the plasmid
unafected, hence allowing researchers to to trace the source of different
strains of bacteria?   

What function do the plasmids serve?  How do they benefit the bacteria.
(Ie.  It seems that chloroplasts and mitochondria have mirror roles.
Chloroplasts are responsible for photosynthesis--the process that changes 
light energy into sugar.  Mitochondria are responsible for changing sugar 
(or other fuel?) and converting it into ATP.  Did I get that right?  
Does the plasmid have some mirror role?)



---
--David C. Adams  Statistician  Cray Research Inc.  dadams@cray.com
___________________________________________________________________
       member--Minnesotans for Global Warming.

Newsgroups: rec.food.sourdough
From: dixon@spot.Colorado.EDU (Life is real?)
Subject: Re: Cast Iron waffle iron problems
Organization: University of Colorado, Boulder
Date: Fri, 28 Aug 1992 01:57:01 GMT

In article <1992Aug26.214519.1@acad3.alaska.edu> fnsjc@acad3.alaska.edu writes:
>Thanks for all the help with my starter, it's working great now!
>
>I have been trying to make sourdough waffles on an old-fashioned,
>non-electric waffle iron, a cast-iron one that sits on top of my
>gas stove burner. The problem is that it ALWAYS sticks, even though I
>oil it well (and I've tried  3 or 4 different recipies.  Does anyone 
>have any experience with this kind of waffle iron? Are there any tricks 
>or hints that you can pass on?    Thanks!
>
>                       Sandra Chaffin, fnsjc@acad3.alaska.edu

Well, we've had the experience that all vegetable-type of oils cause sticking
on waffle irons...very frustrating.  This'll even happen on the teflon ones.
This is of course also why these oils are good for seasoning iron.  The oil
starts out slick, then when it's heated to a high temperature, it gets
stickier and stickier and finally hardens into black/brown stuff.  The key
to making the waffle irons work ok, is to use BUTTER (not margarine) to oil
the thing.  Once my iron waffle iron was seasoned, I started the habit of
washing it immediately after each use (yes, with detergent), then I heat it
up to dry out any water.  Each time I use it, I preheat it really well, i.e.
put it on the fire before you mix up the waffles, then I melt some butter
in a cup (microwave).  Just before putting in waffle batter, I use a 2"
camel hair paintbrush to quickly apply a thin coat of butter.  The soft
brush gets to all the nooks and crannies, but it'll burn if you take too
much time at it.  Every since I figured out this trick, the waffle iron has
been working great.  I actually only butter after each third waffle...the
others don't stick.  

Even better than butter, if you have it or wish to make it, is clarified
butter.  You just melt a bunch of butter (salt free is better) in a sauce
pan, then simmer it for about an hour, skimming off any residue which will
keep appearing on top of the melted butter.  The butter should have teensy
bubbles appearing in it (simmering bubbles) during the process.  Heat it
up hotter if no little bubbles are appearing.  You're done when no more of
the scungies appear on top of the butter.  Cool it in a container that you
wish to keep it in.  Once cooled, it'll last for ages at room temp, or in
the frige.  In India, they call this stuff Ghee, which is just their
word for clarified butter (my wife's from India).  Clarified butter is even
more nonstick than regular butter.  It's also good in any recipe that calls
for butter, i.e. bread or anything fried in butter.

Good luck!
Brian D.


Newsgroups: rec.food.sourdough
From: cat@iedv7.acd.com ( Chris Teegarden (ICCT))
Subject: Hybrid Cultures
Summary: anyone used one?
Keywords: hybrid,culture,starter
Organization: Applied Computing Devices, Inc., Terre Haute IN
Date: Fri, 28 Aug 1992 17:59:45 GMT

Please bear with me a little.  Someone sent me email requesting my
experience with hybrid cultures.  He had requested that I post it if
I didn't have an answer as he was having difficulty doing so himself.

Unfortunately, I promptly lost the message and cannot remember his
address.  Sorry about that!

Anyway, he had run across a catalog for whole and milled grains that also
offered a culture that was supposed to be a hybrid of a 250 year old east
coast culture, one that had ridden by plane to an earlier World's Fair, and
one other culture - possibly a Yukon type.

Being a novice with any cultures, let alone a hybrid, I had no real
answers.  Have any of you had actual experience with such a culture?
From what has been posted about the organisms and their life-cycles, I
would guess that the resulting culture would be about as predictable
as one started by direct exposure to the environment.

I would think that cross-breeding between the strains would not be likely
unless the culture had its temperature cycled repeatedly before the
ecology stabilized with the new dominant strains.  Wouldn't it be
more likely that the faster growing yeasts and lactobacilli would end
up dominating?

This brings up another interesting question that I have posted before.
I am trying to keep multiple active cultures in the same kitchen and
refrigerator and am really concerned about cross-contamination.  How
easy is it for yeasts and lacto-bacilli to invade other cultures if
basic kitchen procedures are followed?  By this, I mean that I
thoroughly wash and scald all containers and implements before using
them with a particular culture.

If anyone has other methods they use, please post!

-- Chris (cat@acd4.acd.com)
From: fnsjc@acad3.alaska.edu
Newsgroups: rec.food.sourdough
Subject: Cast Iron waffle iron problems
Date: 27 Aug 92 05:45:19 GMT
Organization: University of Alaska Fairbanks

Thanks for all the help with my starter, it's working great now!

I have been trying to make sourdough waffles on an old-fashioned,
non-electric waffle iron, a cast-iron one that sits on top of my
gas stove burner. The problem is that it ALWAYS sticks, even though I
oil it well (and I've tried  3 or 4 different recipies.  Does anyone 
have any experience with this kind of waffle iron? Are there any tricks 
or hints that you can pass on?    Thanks!

                       Sandra Chaffin, fnsjc@acad3.alaska.edu
Newsgroups: rec.food.sourdough
From: dadams@cray.com (David Adams)
Subject: Re: viili
Reply-To: dadams@cray.com
Organization: Cray Research, Inc.
Date: 27 Aug 92 14:51:57 CDT

In article 15231@cs.joensuu.fi, jsalonen@cs.joensuu.fi (Jussi Salonen) writes:
|
|In Finland I think viili is one alternative to yogurt. You can make
|more viili from viili and milk as David C. Adams did, but you shouldn't
|use it as a saladsauce.
|
|I used to eat viili with sugar and fresh berries. For foodmaking we have
|an other kind of viili. It is called kermaviili (cream viili). 
|
|rgds   Jussi
|
|Dept. of computer science
|University of Joensuu, Finland
|
|jsalonen@cs.joensuu.fi
|

Do you make kermaviili by feeding the viili culture fresh cream?

---
--David C. Adams  Statistician  Cray Research Inc.  dadams@cray.com
___________________________________________________________________
       member--Minnesotans for Global Warming.
From: dadams@cray.com (David Adams)
Newsgroups: rec.food.sourdough
Subject: Re: sourdough ecology clarification
Date: 28 Aug 92 16:33:49 GMT
Reply-To: dadams@cray.com
Organization: Cray Research, Inc.

In article 24979@cbnewsm.cb.att.com, ccbjr@cbnewsm.cb.att.com (charles.c.bahr..jr) writes:
|In article <Bto1Mr.u4@usenet.ucs.indiana.edu> delwiche@sunflower.bio.indiana.edu (Charles Delwiche) writes:
|>Just a quick corection:  I stated, or implied, somewhere along the
|>line that yeast produce amylase, the enzyme that digests starch and
|>breaks it down into sugars.  I know better than that.  The reason one
|>malts barley before one makes beer is that yeast can't utilize starch.
|>The sugars in sourdough starter come from starch digested by amylase,
|>but apparently the amylase is from the grains.  This amylase would
|>normally help the seed germinate, but if you grind up the grain and
|>add water you have partial digestion of the starch, and sugars are
|>produced that can be utilized by microorganisms like yeast and
|>lactobacilli.  
|>
|>Sorry if I confused anyone.
|>
|Well, now I'm really confused.  Why is it that bread can be made without
|added sugars?  Is there any way yeasts can eat starch, albeit slowly?
|Thanks for any info.
|
|-charlie bahr
|..disclaimer

"Laurel's Kitchen Bread Book" indicates that Baker's yeast, at least, does
produce amylase.  Can we check this out anyway?

BTW, how is barley malted?

---
--David C. Adams  Statistician  Cray Research Inc.  dadams@cray.com
___________________________________________________________________
       member--Minnesotans for Global Warming.
Newsgroups: rec.food.sourdough
From: cat@iedv7.acd.com ( Chris Teegarden (ICCT))
Subject: FAQs and Culture availability update
Summary: Got the FAQs and SF Culture too.
Keywords: FAQ,culture
Organization: Applied Computing Devices, Inc., Terre Haute IN
Date: Wed, 2 Sep 1992 23:51:05 GMT


Big thanks to Tracy K. and Lily Liou!  Tracy was kind enough to email me
the accumulated FAQs which I will now read so I can stop burdening the
group with obvious questions.  This is also to let others know that I no
longer need them (the FAQs).

I received the cultures from Lily on Monday and now have the San Francisco
culture ala Dr. Wood (I think) going strong.  Make a note that it is also
available for sharing via SASE.

I know what I'll be doing this weekend.  Yum.

-- Chris (cat@acd4.acd.com)

P.S.  If anyone has tried to reach me via email, please note the address in
      the sig.  Sometimes the From: field has an incorrect address so
      individual responses may not reach me.
From: julie@eddie.jpl.nasa.gov (Julie Kangas)
Newsgroups: rec.food.sourdough
Subject: Re: First Timer Question
Date: 1 Sep 92 17:41:40 GMT
Organization: Jet Propulsion Laboratory, Pasadena, CA

In article <1992Sep1.165837.26391@ccad.uiowa.edu> petersen@ccad.uiowa.edu (Andrew D Petersen) writes:
>In article <1992Sep1.143607.5238@mahendo.jpl.nasa.gov> julie@eddie.jpl.nasa.gov (Julie Kangas) writes:
>>In article <1992Sep1.135953.21337@ccad.uiowa.edu> petersen@ccad.uiowa.edu (Andrew D Petersen) writes:
>>> Hello,
>>>
	< account of great culture from the air >

>>	2 1/2 hours rise for a new airborne starter!?!  That rivals
>>the Russian culture!  You didn't add commercial yeast did you?
>>Do you live near a sourdough bakery? ;-)
>
>No I didn't add commercial yeast.  This is what worries me do I have some 
>mutant strain or what?  This stuff really bubbles, is there something wrong, or
>is this just good critters?  I am having a PBJ sandwich with the bread now for
>lunch it tastes good (mild sourness) should I be worried?
>
	Well, if it tastes good then it should be alright so I
wouldn't be worried about being poisoned :-)  I mean, this is
what we want -- bubbly cultures.  

	It just appears that you have some good buggies in your area.
(I'm really not kidding about living near the bakery.  If you do live
near a bakery or have used other sourdough cultures then it's possible
you're picking up those yeasts)


Julie
#include "std_disclaimer.h"
#include "witty_sig.h"
From: uc-chan@mcl.ucsb.edu (Christina Callihan)
Newsgroups: rec.food.sourdough
Subject: Re: more on the biology of sourdough
Date: 26 Aug 92 18:59:53 GMT

In <1992Aug25.113914.15550@hemlock.cray.com> dadams@cray.com (David Adams) writes:


>Thanks to delwiche@sunflower.bio.indiana.edu (Charles Delwiche) who writes:


>| This article is also of interest because it studied the
>|plasmid content of bacteria in sourdough starter (if you know what
>|that means, you might want to look at the paper).  

Plasmids are little loops of DNA (genetic material) that are separate from
the main bacterial chromosome.  They are interesting because bacteria can
trade genetic information in a process called conjugation.  So you can
trace plasmids through different strains to see which ones have the same
loops.  Bacteria can acquire different traits (i.e. resistance to certain
antibiotics) by receiving the right plasmids.  


____________________________________________________________________________
If You Know What |     Christina M. Callihan     |  Doing STRANGE THINGS
 You're Doing,   |  AKA C-chan, Bwee, Chrystal-  |  in the name of Art,
   It's Not      |   Elf & Who Knows What Else   |  and STRANGER THINGS
   Research!     |       (I sure don't)          |    in the name of
 => => => => =>  |     uc-chan@mcl.ucsb.edu      |       CHOCOLATE
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
	When life gets weird, the weird get a life.     :)
---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 

(The opinions in this post are not endorsed by the University of California
at Santa Barbara....THANK GOODNESS!!!!!!!!!  ;^}  )
Newsgroups: rec.food.sourdough
From: jsalonen@cs.joensuu.fi (Jussi Salonen)
Subject: Re: viili
Organization: University of Joensuu
Date: Thu, 27 Aug 1992 10:14:17 GMT

dadams@cray.com (David Adams) writes:

>An update on the viili

>The first batch came out like fresh (un-cured) goat cheese.  
>(or goat milk curd?  Like they use in the Mexican restaurants.)
>A grainy white curd had seperated to the top of the bottle and 
>the whey had collected at the bottom.  I seperated the two and 
>composted the whey.  The curd had a grainy look like grits or 
>cream-o-wheat.  It was nearly tasteless.  I ate it on my taco 
>salad.  My family members refused to taste it.  They all thought
>that I was trying to poison them.  I was fascinated that
>the milk culture would have coagulated like this with out
>any rennet added.  I wonder if I can use this process to 
>make a cheese.

>I thik that the culture behaved this way because the proof
>was a little too warm.  So I mixed more milk in with a bit
>of the curds & whey and put it back to proof overnight. 

>This time it came out like a thick and slimy yogurt.  I suppose
>this is more like what the viili was supposed to be like.  I
>haven't tasted it yet.

>---
>--David C. Adams  Statistician  Cray Research Inc.  dadams@cray.com
>___________________________________________________________________
>       member--Minnesotans for Global Warming.

In Finland I think viili is one alternative to yogurt. You can make
more viili from viili and milk as David C. Adams did, but you shouldn't
use it as a saladsauce.

I used to eat viili with sugar and fresh berries. For foodmaking we have
an other kind of viili. It is called kermaviili (cream viili). 

rgds   Jussi

Dept. of computer science
University of Joensuu, Finland

jsalonen@cs.joensuu.fi

Newsgroups: rec.food.sourdough
From: cat@iedv7.acd.com ( Chris Teegarden (ICCT))
Subject: Re:  Russian culture
Summary: It's getting more sour.
Keywords: russian,culture,starter
Organization: Applied Computing Devices, Inc., Terre Haute IN
Date: Mon, 31 Aug 1992 18:54:31 GMT

In case anyone was wondering, my Russian culture is definitely getting more
sour.  I'm not sure if it was because of the stay in the refrigerator or
simply because it's "older".  The tang was noticeable but not overpowering.
It made wonderful whole wheat bread.  I plan on letting the next batch
proof a little longer to see if it becomes more sour.

By the way, I let the dough rise until doubled after kneading before forming
the loaves.  It seemed to produce bread with a softer and finer texture
compared to the last batch even though it contained whole wheat flour.  I
also used one cup of milk instead of water.  Does anyone have any comments
on what makes the real difference?

-- Chris (cat@acd4.acd.com)
Newsgroups: rec.food.sourdough
Organization: Washington University, St. Louis
Date:         Tue, 01 Sep 92 11:54:08 CST
From:         Jerry Pelikan <C05705GP@WUVMD>
To:           NETNEWS@WUVMD
Subject:      Re: sourdough and sour milk
Newsgroups:   rec.food.sourdough

>
>In article <1992Sep1.083825@is.morgan.com>, spgo@is.morgan.com (Stefan
>Goellner) says:
>
>Hi there,
>
>has anyone noticed milk which sits in the same fridge as a starter going
>bad quicker? Should the starter be tightly sealed once it gets into the
>fridge? I leave the plastic wrap with airholes on. I'm trying to keep an eye
>on my current quart of milk, it just seemed to me that some of the previous
>ones soured suspiciously quick.
>
>Stef
How long does your milk stay in your fridge.  I have never had this
problem, but then we go through about five gallons per week.
Perhaps you should keep the milk sealed.

Jerry
Newsgroups: rec.food.sourdough
From: spgo@is.morgan.com (Stefan Goellner)
Subject: sourdough and sour milk
Organization: Morgan Stanley - IS
Date: Tue, 1 Sep 1992 12:38:24 GMT


Hi there,

has anyone noticed milk which sits in the same fridge as a starter going
bad quicker? Should the starter be tightly sealed once it gets into the 
fridge? I leave the plastic wrap with airholes on. I'm trying to keep an eye
on my current quart of milk, it just seemed to me that some of the previous
ones soured suspiciously quick.

Stef
Newsgroups: rec.food.sourdough
From: dadams@cray.com (David Adams)
Subject: Re: Storage Containers
Reply-To: dadams@cray.com
Organization: Cray Research, Inc.
Date: 31 Aug 92 14:29:08 CDT

 julie@eddie.jpl.nasa.gov (Julie Kangas) writes:
| fsf@hpic006.mentorg.com (Rick Farnbach) writes:
|>I go down to the local Winchell's Donut and ask them for plastic buckets
|>w/lids.  Depending on who is behind the counter I get one of three
|<...>
|>
|>They seal tightly, but mice might be able to chew through the plastic,
|>though this has never happened to me.  They hold 4 gallons which is not
|>quite big enough for a 50lb bag of flour, so you will need more than
|>one.  They are not clean when you get them.
|       ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
|
|	Hmmm.  What did they keep in them?  Was it food or waste
|or something else?  I'm tempted to try my local Winchells for
|some of these but I'd like (1) food-grade plastic and (2) something
|not-too-disgusting inside  (I don't want a bucket that's been
|used to mop floors - yuck).
|
|Julie

A friend and I went to the place where they make the pies for "Baker's
Square" and they gave us a lot of used buckets.  I got about 100 buckets
and my friend got nearly as many.  (They had several pallates of used 
buckets there.)  They gave us a bunch, and we made several trips and
then they told us they had to stop because they were concerned about
liability.  

They used to hold eggs.  We had to wash them out.  They washed up 
cleanly.  We use them to hold wheat, rye, oats, pearled barley, pasta, 
rice, beans of several varieties, powdered milk, and bread flour.  

We found some place where we could buy new buckets at about $2.25 ea.
This is more than I wanted to pay for 100 buckets.

We line each bucket with a food grade plastic bag.  We got 1000 FDA
certified bags at some specialty store for about $7.  They were just
the right size for lining a 5 gal. bucket.   I don't know that this 
was necessary, but it seemed like the thing to do.

Well if I loose my job, at least I can keep making bread.  ;^)


---
--David C. Adams  Statistician  Cray Research Inc.  dadams@cray.com
___________________________________________________________________
	Q.  What do you call 100 lawyers at the bottom of the ocean?
	A.  A good start!

Newsgroups: rec.food.sourdough
From: dadams@cray.com (David Adams)
Subject: Montana 86 hard white spring wheat
Reply-To: dadams@cray.com
Organization: Cray Research, Inc.
Date: 2 Sep 92 14:19:02 CDT


I finally found the number to call for information about
Montana 86 (hybrid) wheat.

I had mentioned this because, as far as I am aware it is the
only hard spring wheat which is white.

Hard wheat is better for bread as the protein content is higher
than soft wheat.  (It will have a higher gluten content.)

Hard spring wheat is better than Hard winter wheat (I believe
it is for the same reason.)

White wheat is better than red because red wheat has more tannin.
Tannin can give the bread a slightly acrid taste.

For ordering information

Call Wheat Montana:
	1-800-535-2798




---
--David C. Adams  Statistician  Cray Research Inc.  dadams@cray.com
___________________________________________________________________
       Old Sourdoughs never die.  They just ferment away.



Newsgroups: rec.food.sourdough
From: dadams@cray.com (David Adams)
Subject: Re: viili
Reply-To: dadams@cray.com
Organization: Cray Research, Inc.
Date: 26 Aug 92 14:40:49 CDT

An update on the viili

The first batch came out like fresh (un-cured) goat cheese.  
(or goat milk curd?  Like they use in the Mexican restaurants.)
A grainy white curd had seperated to the top of the bottle and 
the whey had collected at the bottom.  I seperated the two and 
composted the whey.  The curd had a grainy look like grits or 
cream-o-wheat.  It was nearly tasteless.  I ate it on my taco 
salad.  My family members refused to taste it.  They all thought
that I was trying to poison them.  I was fascinated that
the milk culture would have coagulated like this with out
any rennet added.  I wonder if I can use this process to 
make a cheese.

I thik that the culture behaved this way because the proof
was a little too warm.  So I mixed more milk in with a bit
of the curds & whey and put it back to proof overnight. 

This time it came out like a thick and slimy yogurt.  I suppose
this is more like what the viili was supposed to be like.  I
haven't tasted it yet.

---
--David C. Adams  Statistician  Cray Research Inc.  dadams@cray.com
___________________________________________________________________
       member--Minnesotans for Global Warming.
From: mmcgreg@uswnvg.com (Mark McGregor)
Newsgroups: rec.food.sourdough
Subject: Location of the FAQ
Date: 1 Sep 92 17:43:24 GMT
Organization: U S WEST NewVector Group, Inc.
X-Newsreader: Tin 1.1 PL5



I just started subscribing to this news group, and have seen the
famous "FAQ" mentioned by several people.

Could somebody either mail me the FAQ or send me the location of
the FAQ so that I can get it through FTP?

________________________________________________________________________
Mark McGregor -- mmcgreg@uswnvg.com

Of all the things that I have lost, I miss my 4.7mhz IBM pc the least.
________________________________________________________________________
Newsgroups: rec.food.sourdough