HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: nadja@jetsun.weitek.COM (Nadja Adolf)
Newsgroups: alt.abortion.inequity,talk.religion.misc,talk.abortion
Subject: Re: Leap Of Faith, its not just for breakfast...
Date: 8 Oct 92 18:09:24 GMT
Organization: WEITEK Corporation, Sunnyvale CA

In article <1992Oct7.205224.11899@wetware.com> drieux@wetware.com (drieux, just drieux) writes:
>amn@owlnet.rice.edu (Analisa Marie Norris) writes:
>] Ray is making some excellent points about freedom vs. rights of children.  Here's an extension of that thought:
 
>] In order for something to be completely free, it MUST be restricted.  For example, you have free use of your arm, yet it is attached to your body.  Were it not attached to your body, it would be utterly useless.  Therefore, in order for this freedom to be effective, it must have some limitations.

What a concept. In order to have freedom of speech, someone must keep me
censored... :-> Snorfle, giggle, chuckle, wuffle :->

OH GHOODS! I CAN'T TAKE ANY MORE OF THIS DRIVEL? DID YOU LIKE MEMORIZE
THE SUBTITLES FOR MARIA'S SPEECH AT THE END OF METROPOLIS OR WHAT?
 
>] The freedom of the 8 year old child may be viewed in the same way.  It does have the right to freedom, yet this freedom must be restricted in some ways, in order for the freedom to be meaningful.
>] 
>] It can therefore be safely concluded that ALL children (born and unborn) DO have rights equal to those of their parents, and abortion is WRONG.


>Technical question, but how do you make the jump
>from a Discussion about Born Persons to a Notion
>that includes both the born and the UnBorn given
>the data that you present as the premises of your
>conclusion?

She defined women as children and then there parents (BIG DADDY, BIG
BROTHER, OR UNCLE SAM) tells them what to do to be 'GOOD GIRLS' (TM). 
Besides, in order for you to freely inquire on the matter of what she
has said, she has to restrict you by not filling in the steps it took
to derive 'B' from 'A.' In order to be completely logical, it has to
be restricted in some way, preferably by omitting coherence from the 
argument she gives.


>Or is this merely a religious matter of faith,
>like the number of sides of a circle?

Oh ye of Little Faith. If she tells you, you should believe. Are you 
accusing her of lying you secret agent of the HETEROSEXUAL WORLD PLOT
TO PROMOTE ABORTION AND AUTOLOADERS?

>ciao
>drieux
>
>
>-- 
>Modern Day Problems:
>
>Entropy, Its not Just a Good Idea,
>IT's The LAW!!!!!


-- 
The Earth Pig Bourne....

nadja@node.com (prefered email address)
nadja@weitek.com
Newsgroups: alt.abortion.inequity,talk.abortion,soc.men,soc.women
From: niceswangern@bvc.edu
Newsgroups: alt.abortion.inequity
Subject: Please Help - NO!
Date: 9 Oct 92 20:41:33 CDT
Organization: Buena Vista College, Storm Lake, IA

	Just one question: Why does the file "Please Help" keep appearing 
on other newsgroups that have nothing to do with abortion or anything that 
was on the questionnaire?  I really doubt that the folks over in 
alt.fan.letterman really want this type of stuff thrown into their 
newsgroup!!!  
				Nate N.

Newsgroups: alt.abortion.inequity,talk.abortion,soc.men,soc.women
Newsgroups: alt.abortion.inequity,talk.abortion
Date: Fri, 16 Oct 1992 09:39:34 -0400 
From: "Andrea B. Gansley-Ortiz" <ag1v+@andrew.cmu.edu>
Subject: Re: Guilty of ... TH 1/2
	<1992Oct14.150301.20674@nas.nasa.gov>

Dan King writes:
>I have no desire to punish anyone.  In the majority of cases, the couple
>will talk.  As long as communication between them is good, hey no problem.

I haven't been able to find any studies which measure how many women seeking
abortions inform the father of the child. Where do you get this?

>In the case were communication is not so good, I see no advantage to
>informing the male partner, if the female partner is un-willing.  As 
>a matter of fact, as your original post demonstrated, I see an 
>inherent danger in forcing this notification.  

I was under the impression that anecdotal information was not enough for
a proof.

Mind you, I don't believe it should be forced. But in this debate it
seems the feelings of men are often ignored. I don't understand how 
people can think that men have no say in this debate (unless of course
it's a 'pro-choice' stance). 

Many men have been raised to believe that there's a great deal of worth
in that tiny human life inside the mother. And ignoring that; I think 
that's wrong.

ag
Xref: sparky alt.abortion.inequity:4287 talk.religion.misc:17814 talk.abortion:41145
From: drieux@wetware.com (drieux, just drieux)
Newsgroups: alt.abortion.inequity,talk.religion.misc,talk.abortion
Subject: Leap Of Faith, its not just for breakfast...
Date: 7 Oct 92 20:52:24 GMT
Organization: Castle WetWare Philosopher and Sniper

amn@owlnet.rice.edu (Analisa Marie Norris) writes:
] Ray is making some excellent points about freedom vs. rights of children.  Here's an extension of that thought:
] 
] In order for something to be completely free, it MUST be restricted.  For example, you have free use of your arm, yet it is attached to your body.  Were it not attached to your body, it would be utterly useless.  Therefore, in order for this freedom to be effective, it must have some limitations.
] 
] The freedom of the 8 year old child may be viewed in the same way.  It does have the right to freedom, yet this freedom must be restricted in some ways, in order for the freedom to be meaningful.
] 
] It can therefore be safely concluded that ALL children (born and unborn) DO have rights equal to those of their parents, and abortion is WRONG.


Technical question, but how do you make the jump
from a Discussion about Born Persons to a Notion
that includes both the born and the UnBorn given
the data that you present as the premises of your
conclusion?

Or is this merely a religious matter of faith,
like the number of sides of a circle?

ciao
drieux


-- 
Modern Day Problems:

Entropy, Its not Just a Good Idea,
IT's The LAW!!!!!
From: bthurman@uncavx.unca.edu
Newsgroups: alt.abortion.inequity
Subject: Re: medical/hospital + media bias
Date: 13 Oct 92 16:46:47 GMT
Organization: University of North Carolina at Asheville
Nntp-Posting-User: bthurman

Another instance of 'pro-abort' sentiment in WNC?  If one quotes what a close
personal friend experienced, would it be 'mere hearsay'?  If true hearsay, as
opposed to false testimony, bothers you, why not telephone nurse Catherine
Estridge and hear it from her?  Does she not claim the following: that she was
assigned to an o-b case that she later learned was intended to be an abortion,
not in a local death chamber, but in one of Asheville's major hospitals; when
the foetus was extracted and laid aside, she noticed that the baby was living
and picked it up; ordered by physician(s) in charge to put it back, she lost
her job over it?  Does this not reveal something more pernicious than media
bias?  What happened to that innocent victim who lived by mistake?  If it was
right to kill him or her the day before emerging into the world, why not after?
Why is it that those who support these death chambers make so little mention of
the question of consciousness as a standard?  Could it be the unmentionable
thought of about how far back your own memory extends?  Could it be the
secret awareness that, if the almighty power of godless woman applies the day
before, no reason can be given for not applying it the day after?
Organization: Engineering Design Research Center, Carnegie Mellon, Pittsburgh, PA
Newsgroups: alt.abortion.inequity,talk.abortion,soc.women,soc.men
Date: Wed, 14 Oct 1992 11:21:48 -0400 
From: "Andrea B. Gansley-Ortiz" <ag1v+@andrew.cmu.edu>
Subject: Re: Guilty of (Fill In The Blank)

Excerpts from netnews.talk.abortion: 11-Oct-92 Re: Guilty of (Fill In
The .. by Larry Margolis@watson.ib 
> No, in most cases the woman does share it with the man.  I just don't
> see a need for a law saying that she *must*.

I've been having a great deal of difficulty finding statistics or 
anything regarding numbers concerning abortions. I found one article
which stated that middle class white women had the bulk (what ever
that's supposed to mean) of abortions, but that a disproportionate
number of minority women had them.

Where were you able to find that most women tell the man that she's
pregnant? Or was it that most women tell the man, after she's had the
abortion?

(BTW, I agree that they shouldn't be forced to.)

ag
From: patrick@is.rice.edu (Patrick L Humphrey)
Newsgroups: alt.abortion.inequity
Subject: Re: medical/hospital + media bias
Date: 13 Oct 92 17:28:45 GMT
Distribution: na
Organization: Rice University

In article <1992Oct13.114647.1@uncavx.unca.edu>, bthurman@uncavx.unca.edu writes:
>Another instance of 'pro-abort' sentiment in WNC?  If one quotes what a close
>personal friend experienced, would it be 'mere hearsay'?  If true hearsay, as
>opposed to false testimony, bothers you, why not telephone nurse Catherine
>Estridge and hear it from her?  Does she not claim the following: that she was
>assigned to an o-b case that she later learned was intended to be an abortion,
>not in a local death chamber, but in one of Asheville's major hospitals; when
>the foetus was extracted and laid aside, she noticed that the baby was living
>and picked it up; ordered by physician(s) in charge to put it back, she lost
>her job over it?  Does this not reveal something more pernicious than media
>bias?  What happened to that innocent victim who lived by mistake?  If it was
>right to kill him or her the day before emerging into the world, why not after?
>Why is it that those who support these death chambers make so little mention of
>the question of consciousness as a standard?  Could it be the unmentionable
>thought of about how far back your own memory extends?  Could it be the
>secret awareness that, if the almighty power of godless woman applies the day
>before, no reason can be given for not applying it the day after?
  
Could it be that you can't provide any substantiation of your ravings, beyond
a "quote" of a "friend""?  That'll qualify you for alt.folklor.urban, maybe,
but debates usually have a bit higher standard to measure up to than that...
   
(Could it also be that you can't figure out how to quote remarks from the 
article you're responding to?  Try achieving that before you expect me to 
take anything you say seriously...)
  
--PLH (they just never seem to learn...)
From: cj@eno.wpd.sgi.com (C.J. Silverio)
Newsgroups: alt.abortion.inequity
Subject: Re: Planned Parenthood on RU 486 "Morning After" Breakthrough
Followup-To: alt.abortion.inequity
Date: 12 Oct 1992 18:38:08 GMT
Organization: SGI TechPubs
Reply-To: cj@sgi.com
NNTP-Posting-Host: eno.wpd.sgi.com


In article <Bw0sw5.5GC@cs.psu.edu>, beaver@castor.cs.psu.edu writes:
|"Every individual, except a man, has a fundamental right to choose
|when or whether to have a child."

How Pythonesque.  Don't worry, Don.  I fully support your
right to get pregnant.  Too bad you don't have a uterus.

|or,
|"Every individual has a fundamental right to choose when or whether
|to have a child, and some individuals' rights are greater than others'."

So what?  Some individuals-- women-- face more risk while
reproducing than others.  Men take no risk, bear none of the
physical burden, and suffer no consequences to their health.  Of
course women have an extra option that men don't.

Come back when men can get pregnant.  Then you might have a
point.

---
cj@eno.wpd.sgi.com      C J Silverio/Brahms Gang/Berkeley CA 94720
"If men could get pregnant, abortion would be a sacrament."
Newsgroups: alt.planning.urban
From: andyh@microsoft.com (Andy Held)
Subject: private property
Date: 15 Oct 92 20:52:54 GMT
Organization: Microsoft Corp.
Keywords: comprehensive plan, private property

In the last few years, the Washington State legislature has passed 
a pair of growth management laws.  One key element of the GMA is 
that each local government must update its Comprehensive Plan, and then
update its Zoning Code to comply with the Comp Plan.  The city where I
live, Kirkland, is in the process of updating its Comp Plan.

Kirkland is a suburb of Seattle, about 9 sq miles total area, approx
40,000 residents.

If the folks out there in net land are interested, I can post details of
the visioning process which set the framework for our comp plan update.
(Or I can post the draft vision statement, which I think is excellent.)

This posting is to ask advice from the pros out there:  there have been
loud objections raised by some members of the Commission about
"infringing on private property rights", or "takings".  These objections
have dealt with increased setback requirements, for example.

[This is extremely important.  Residential property has a 20 ft setback
req'ment.  Light Industrial property has the same, but 15 of those 20
feet can be paved for use as parking, loading, etc.  This means that in
new mixed use areas, there's gonna be a lot of ugly asphault, etc.]

So my question:  what are good arguements to make in favor of increased
setbacks, in favor of requiring open space/public space in all new
developments?

Reply by posting or email to andyh@microsoft.com.

Thanks,
-andy
From: vkunch@csd4.csd.uwm.edu (Virginia P Kunch)
Newsgroups: alt.wolves
Subject: Re: Please Help
Date: 13 Oct 1992 13:14:57 GMT
Organization: Computing Services Division, University of Wisconsin - Milwaukee
NNTP-Posting-Host: 129.89.7.4

I wasn't sure from the article requesting info on wolves in the American 
southwest:  1.  what was meant by southwest; and 2.  whether the author meant
grey wolves or Mexican wolves (which are 2 separate species).  Here's what
I've been able to find out.

To my knowledge, there are no substantiated reports of wild grey wolves in the
American Southwest.  They have only journeyed as far south as Montana, Idaho,
and the Dakotas.

The Mexican wolf, however, is another story.  Unsubstantiated wolf sightings
have increased along the Arizona/Mexico border, although no wolf activity has
actually been confirmed.  There are potential reintroduction plans on the
boards in Arizona and New Mexico.  The current captive population stands at
42, with 32 in US facilities and 10 at Mexican facilities.

By the way, it just occurred to me that I said that Mexican wolf is a different
species; that's wrong (sorry), they're a separate subspecies (Canis lupus
baileyi).

Hope this has been of some help...

-ginny kunch
vkunch@csd4.csd.uwm.edu


Sougto 
Newsgroups: alt.wolves
From: marshall@watserv1.uwaterloo.ca (Jim Marshall - DCS)
Subject: Re: Please Help
Organization: University of Waterloo
Date: Thu, 8 Oct 1992 18:46:41 GMT

In article <56270001@hpwrce.mayfield.hp.com>, kingsley@hpwrce.mayfield.hp.com (Kingsley Morse) writes:
>               Please answer these 9 questions and return.
> 
> 1.) Do you think equal rights for men and women is generally a good idea?
> Yes                  [+]
> Sometimes            [ ]
> No                   [ ]
> Haven't heard enough [ ]
> Other                [ ]
> 
> 2.) Are you pro choice?
> Yes                  [ ]
> Sometimes            [+]
> No                   [ ]
> Haven't heard enough [ ]
> Other                [ ]
> 
> 3.) Are you in favor of adoption?
> Yes                  [+]
> Sometimes            [ ]
> No                   [ ]
> Haven't heard enough [ ]
> Other                [ ]
> 
> 4.) Do you think men should be allowed to legally terminate their parental
> rights and responsibilities before fetal viability?
> Yes                  [ ]
> Sometimes            [+]
> No                   [ ]
> Haven't heard enough [ ]
> Other                [ ]
> 
> 5.) What sex are you?
> Male               [+]
> Female             [ ]
> 
> 6.) How old are you?
> Under 18           [ ]
> 19 to 65           [+]
> Over 65            [ ]
> 
> 7.) What religion are you?
> Protestant         [+]
> Catholic           [ ]
> Jewish             [ ]
> Other              [ ]
> 
> 8.) What political party are you affiliated with?
> Democratic         [ ]
> Republican         [ ]
> Other              [+]
> 
> 9.) How many years of education have you completed?
> Grade School       [ ]
> High School        [ ]
> College            [ ]
> More               [+]


*******************************************************************************
jim m.

*******************************************************************************
From: smckenna@aludra.usc.edu (Stacy McKenna)
Newsgroups: alt.wolves
Subject: Re: Please Help
Date: 11 Oct 1992 20:57:00 -0700
Organization: University of Southern California, Los Angeles, CA
NNTP-Posting-Host: aludra.usc.edu


>>>What the hell??????  This isn't alt.poilitical_views!  Jeez buddy- dont be send
>>>ing your little surveys out to us.  Why did you?  This is a group on Wolves!
>>> 
>>>PS- should we lock this guy in a room full of wild wolves?  Or those hunters
>>>that shoot down planes to save wolves(Brent you know who you are!)?  8^)
>> 
>>I agree completely... But I think the best way to take someone out is to 
>>put them in a forest of wild wolves at nighttime and let the wolves stalk 
>>him/her for a while first. Then the real action will begin. Wolves have a 
>>good stalking ability, and for some reason, I admire that a lot.
>> 
>Hows about this!  Let the wolves stlk him into a room, and then lock the dor
>and drop a bunch of crazed machine-gun toting maniacs who hate ant-wlof people
>in there to kill him.
>
>I think that it would work.

Can we please stop this? Yes, it was inappropriate to this board. Yes,
I would rather read about wolves as well, but these posts are no more
appropriate than the one you guys are slamming. Can we please get back
to the real topic of this board please? Thank you.

Anyway, does anyone have any current information on the status of
wolves in the American Southwest. I have read up on them quite a bit
through books obtained at national parks, the library, etc., but I
don't have any current stats on poulation, etc. and was wondering if
any of you could fill me in. 

Thanks!

Stacy
From: v079ql9q@ubvmsb.cc.buffalo.edu (I got a Catholic Block.....)
Newsgroups: alt.wolves
Subject: Re: Please Help
Date: 8 Oct 92 18:42:00 GMT
Organization: University at Buffalo
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41

In article <56270001@hpwrce.mayfield.hp.com>, kingsley@hpwrce.mayfield.hp.com (Kingsley Morse) writes...
> 
>              Please answer these 9 questions and return.
> 
>1.) Do you think equal rights for men and women is generally a good idea?
>Yes                  [ ]
>Sometimes            [ ]
>No                   [ ]
>Haven't heard enough [ ]
>Other                [ ]
> 
>2.) Are you pro choice?
>Yes                  [ ]
>Sometimes            [ ]
>No                   [ ]
>Haven't heard enough [ ]
>Other                [ ]
> 
>3.) Are you in favor of adoption?
>Yes                  [ ]
>Sometimes            [ ]
>No                   [ ]
>Haven't heard enough [ ]
>Other                [ ]
> 
>4.) Do you think men should be allowed to legally terminate their parental
>rights and responsibilities before fetal viability?
>Yes                  [ ]
>Sometimes            [ ]
>No                   [ ]
>Haven't heard enough [ ]
>Other                [ ]
> 
>5.) What sex are you?
>Male               [ ]
>Female             [ ]
> 
>6.) How old are you?
>Under 18           [ ]
>19 to 65           [ ]
>Over 65            [ ]
> 
>7.) What religion are you?
>Protestant         [ ]
>Catholic           [ ]
>Jewish             [ ]
>Other              [ ]
> 
>8.) What political party are you affiliated with?
>Democratic         [ ]
>Republican         [ ]
>Other              [ ]
> 
>9.) How many years of education have you completed?
>Grade School       [ ]
>High School        [ ]
>College            [ ]
>More               [ ]

What the hell??????  This isn't alt.poilitical_views!  Jeez buddy- dont be send
ing your little surveys out to us.  Why did you?  This is a group on Wolves!

Later-

Shane

PS- should we lock this guy in a room full of wild wolves?  Or those hunters
that shoot down planes to save wolves(Brent you know who you are!)?  8^)
From: vkunch@csd4.csd.uwm.edu (Virginia P Kunch)
Newsgroups: alt.wolves
Subject: Re: Wolves in Ontario (Canada)
Date: 7 Oct 1992 14:19:14 GMT
Organization: Computing Services Division, University of Wisconsin - Milwaukee
Distribution: na
NNTP-Posting-Host: 129.89.7.4

Quite a few people have requested the information for subscription
to Wolf! magazine, so here it is:


Wolf! is a quarterly magazine focusing on wolf news world-wide.  Regular
features include research reports; listings of books, magazine articles and other media featuring wolves; notes on captive wolves; news from various wolf 
organizations; available educational programs and wolf-related events.

Subscription rates+

US - $18.50/yr; $35.00/2 years; $50.00/3 years
Surcharge for 1st class postage - $5.00/yr
Canada & Mexico - add $6.50/yr
Surcharge to all other countries - $15.00/yr

Pay in US funds only; VISA and Mastercard accepted; or checks drawn on
a US bank in US funds, or US currency.

Sample copy US/Canada/Mexico - $6.50 ; other countries $9.00 (postpaid)

Make checks payable to WOLF!, P.O. Box 29, Lafayette, IN  47902-0029

--ginny
vkunch@csd4.csd.uwm.edu
From: 1012breuckma@vms.csd.mu.edu
Newsgroups: alt.wolves
Subject: Discovery Channel wolf special
Date: 15 Oct 1992 22:12:53 GMT
Organization: Marquette University - Computer Services
Reply-To: 1012breuckma@vms.csd.mu.edu
NNTP-Posting-Host: vmsa.csd.mu.edu

The Discovery Channel has been promoting a special 2-hour program
for this Sunday, October 18th, at 9:00 a.m. Eastern time,
"Cry of the Wild"
The previews look interesting!

Newsgroups: alt.wolves
From: glen@pandora.sdsu.edu (Glen)
Subject: Re: Just a wolf poem
Organization: San Diego State University, College of Sciences
X-Newsreader: Tin 1.1 PL5
Date: Wed, 7 Oct 1992 15:05:25 GMT

Jacob E Schuetze (fsjes3@ix.acf-lab.alaska.edu) wrote:
: I know that this goes in a poetry base, but hoped it might be appreciated  
: here too:

Thanks very much for the wonderful poem.  I was amazed to see a group
dedicated to wolves, for whom I have a great love, but even more amazed
to see things like this which let humans see, even in small measure, into
the heart and spirit of the pack.

: Please send any replies on the poem to fsjes3@camelot.acf-lab.alaska.edu
: If you don't want any more poetry on this base ever again, post here and  
: I'll see it when I read the news. Thanks

Don't be silly.  Keep it up!

Glen (Sun Watcher)
glen@pandora.cs.pdx.edu