From: car@ramecs.UUCP (Chris Rende)
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
Subject: Re: Messiah recommendations? (probably seasonal FAQ)
Date: 22 Nov 92 01:16:33 GMT
Organization: RAMECS, Warren, MI

From article <1992Nov20.181214.27569@Rapnet.Sanders.Lockheed.Com>, by mlaird@Rapnet.Sanders.Lockheed.Com (Michael D. Laird):
> I'd like to get a CD set of the complete Messiah by Handel, but before I
> do, I'd like to solicit some recommendations from the net.  

Using recommendations from the net, I bought this one:

Handel: Messiah
Archiv 423630-2
The English Concert & Choir
Trevor Pinnock
Cost $32

It is a 2 CD set.
The English Concert uses authentic instruments. They are by far my
favorite Baroque music performers.

Here are some postings about Messiah from last year:


car.


: Path: ramecs!trux!rphroy!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!bronze!silver!jmwise
: From: jmwise@silver.ucs.indiana.edu (Johanna Wise)
: Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
: Subject: Re: Handel's Messiah on CD
: Keywords: recommendation, choral music
: Message-ID: <1991Dec10.033023.27878@bronze.ucs.indiana.edu>
: Date: 10 Dec 91 03:30:23 GMT
: References: <GFINK.91Dec9184900@bonzai.eecs.ucdavis.edu>
: Sender: Johanna Wise <jmwise@silver.ucs.indiana.edu>
: Organization: Indiana University
: Lines: 15
: Nntp-Posting-Host: silver.ucs.indiana.edu
: 
: 
: ok
: Yes I do have a recommendation for a particular recording of the
: Messiah. It is John Eliot Gardiner's recording with the Monteverdi Choir,
: and on period instruments. It is on Philips label. It is also DDD.
: For those that arent aware, Gardiner is a baroque choral music 
: GOD.
: 
: The wierd thing is I got this recording free with a classical record
: club subscription last year, and I had no idea until about 2 months ago
: exactly how coveted this recording was.... A friend of mine, Peter Hoogenboom,
: <phoogenb@ucs.indiana.edu>, is an educated choral maestro/student, and
: informed me of this.
: 
: J
: Path: ramecs!trux!rphroy!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!mips!pacbell.com!att!cbnewsh!shun
: From: shun@cbnewsh.cb.att.com (shun.cheung)
: Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
: Subject: Re: Handel's Messiah on CD
: Keywords: recommendation, choral music
: Message-ID: <1991Dec10.075048.11988@cbnewsh.cb.att.com>
: Date: 10 Dec 91 07:50:48 GMT
: References: <GFINK.91Dec9184900@bonzai.eecs.ucdavis.edu> <1991Dec10.033023.27878@bronze.ucs.indiana.edu>
: Distribution: usa
: Organization: AT&T Bell Laboratories
: Lines: 16
: 
: In article <1991Dec10.033023.27878@bronze.ucs.indiana.edu> jmwise@silver.ucs.indiana.edu (Johanna Wise) writes:
: >Yes I do have a recommendation for a particular recording of the
: >Messiah. It is John Eliot Gardiner's recording with the Monteverdi Choir,
: >and on period instruments. It is on Philips label. It is also DDD.
: >For those that arent aware, Gardiner is a baroque choral music 
: >GOD.
: 
: If cost if not a concern, I second this recommendation, which is my favorate.
: The only problem is that this is a three-CD set and costs ~50% more than
: two-CD sets. So another choice is Trevor Pinnock's with the English Concert
: on DG Archiv. However, fothose who don't like period instruments, Pinnock's
: recording could be a lot more annoying than Gradines although they are both
: on period instruments.
: -- 
: -- Shun Cheung,    electronic: shun.cheung@att.com    voice: (908) 615-5135
:      HR 1A-304, AT&T Bell Laboratories, Middletown, NJ, USA
: Path: ramecs!trux!rphroy!caen!spool.mu.edu!uunet!timbuk.cray.com!hemlock.cray.com!cb
: From: cb@tamarack12.sequoia (Chris Brewster)
: Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
: Subject: Re: Handel's Messiah on CD
: Message-ID: <CB.91Dec10130936@tamarack12.sequoia>
: Date: 10 Dec 91 19:09:39 GMT
: References: <GFINK.91Dec9184900@bonzai.eecs.ucdavis.edu>
: Distribution: rec
: Organization: pubs
: Lines: 27
: In-reply-to: gfink@bonzai.eecs.ucdavis.edu's message of 10 Dec 91 02:49:00 GMT
: 
: George Fink writes:
: 
:    I'm going to purchase Handel's Messiah on CD for my father for X-mas, but
:    I want to be sure to make a good selection, as there are multiple versions
:    around.  Does anybody here have a favorite?
: 
: Looming over the Messiah, as over all classical and earlier music, is the issue
: of authentic performance.  The Messiah has been studied more exhaustively than
: most works simply because it is the one Baroque piece that has been continuously
: popular since it was written.  Therefore, you have even more scholarly choices
: than usual, in addition to the many, so to speak, anti-scholarly choices.  
: 
: My favorite version, possibly because of *when* it was made, has always seemed
: to strike just the right balance: Colin Davis's 1966 version.  At the time, it
: was considered rigorously, even objectionably, "authentic".  Now, of course, we
: have a couple decades of further research behind us, and there are versions such
: as Hogwood's available, which carry this much farther.  
: 
: I feel that Davis's version incorporates the most important features of the
: movement to de-Romanticize the Baroque: smaller forces and an over-all style
: that seems to have the spirit, if not the letter, of authenticity.  But in other
: ways it's modern and inauthentic: modern instruments, vibrato on the violins,
: etc.  Apart from the issue of authenticity, it's simply very well performed.
: 
: Chris Brewster
: cb@cray.com
: GEnie: C.BREWSTER7
: Path: ramecs!trux!rphroy!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!qt.cs.utexas.edu!yale.edu!jvnc.net!nuscc!nuscc.nus.sg!engp1186
: From: engp1186@nuscc.nus.sg (Won-Soon Lau)
: Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
: Subject: Re: Handel's Messiah on CD
: Keywords: recommendation, choral music
: Message-ID: <1991Dec11.110415.2806@nuscc.nus.sg>
: Date: 11 Dec 91 11:04:15 GMT
: References: <GFINK.91Dec9184900@bonzai.eecs.ucdavis.edu> <1991Dec10.033023.27878@bronze.ucs.indiana.edu>
: Sender: usenet@nuscc.nus.sg
: Reply-To: engp1186@nuscc.nus.sg
: Organization: Dept. EE, National Univ. of Singapore
: Lines: 15
: 
: In article <1991Dec10.033023.27878@bronze.ucs.indiana.edu>, jmwise@silver.ucs.indiana.edu (Johanna Wise) writes:
: |> 
: |> ok
: |> Yes I do have a recommendation for a particular recording of the
: |> Messiah. It is John Eliot Gardiner's recording with the Monteverdi Choir,
: |> and on period instruments. It is on Philips label. It is also DDD.
: |> For those that arent aware, Gardiner is a baroque choral music 
: |> GOD.
: 
:    The Gardiner's set is good. I have that also.  But after listening 
: to another set by Trevor Pinnock, I think it is the superior one of the
: two.  It is released under Archiv Produktion 423 630 2AH2.  It came in
: only two disks as compared to the three disks set by Gardiner.
: 
: -WS
: Path: ramecs!trux!rphroy!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!samsung!emory!ncratl!lreed
: From: lreed@ncratl.AtlantaGA.NCR.COM (Len Reed)
: Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
: Subject: Re: Handel's Messiah on CD
: Message-ID: <20001@ncratl.AtlantaGA.NCR.COM>
: Date: 13 Dec 91 19:36:58 GMT
: References: <GFINK.91Dec9184900@bonzai.eecs.ucdavis.edu> <CB.91Dec10130936@tamarack12.sequoia>
: Reply-To: lreed@ncratl.AtlantaGA.NCR.COM (Len Reed)
: Distribution: rec
: Organization: NCR Engineering and Manufacturing Atlanta -- Atlanta, GA
: Lines: 18
: 
: In article <CB.91Dec10130936@tamarack12.sequoia> cb@tamarack12.sequoia (Chris Brewster) writes:
: >My favorite version, possibly because of *when* it was made, has always seemed
: >to strike just the right balance: Colin Davis's 1966 version.  At the time, it
: >was considered rigorously, even objectionably, "authentic".  Now, of course, we
: >have a couple decades of further research behind us, and there are versions such
: >as Hogwood's available, which carry this much farther.  
: 
: I too love this version by Davis.  I must warn folks, though, that Davis
: has another, more recent recording (1988ish) that is regarded as inferior.
: (I haven't heard it but the review were bad; the recording that you
: refer to is held in almost universal high regard.)
: 
: Of the new, period instruments performances, I prefer Gardiner.  Hogwood
: is okay.  Pinnock is cheapest (2 discs not three) but to my taste is
: noticeably inferior.  (And I'm a big Trevor Pinnock fan, too.)
: 
: -Len Reed
: (send email to gatech!holos0!lbr)
: Path: ramecs!trux!rphroy!caen!uwm.edu!psuvax1!larch!news
: From: fishberg@cs.swarthmore.edu (Dylan Steinberg)
: Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
: Subject: Re: Handel's Messiah on CD
: Message-ID: <G4CBB81W@cc.swarthmore.edu>
: Date: 14 Dec 91 15:30:14 GMT
: References: <GFINK.91Dec9184900@bonzai.eecs.ucdavis.edu>
: Sender: news@cc.swarthmore.edu (USENET News System)
: Organization: Swarthmore College
: Lines: 16
: Nntp-Posting-Host: trottermac23.swarthmore.edu
: 
: I just bought the Gardiner/Monteverdi Choir Messiah yesterday and having
: listened to it a couple times through, I also recommend it very highly.
: 
: There is a specific turning away from the "cast of thousands" versions of
: "Messiah" which makes for a much more musical sound.  This is most apparent in
: the "Hallelujah" chorus which is by far the most restrained and stately version
: of that I've heard.  If you're looking for lots of brass and tympani, this is
: definately a recording to avoid; but as far as a musical interpretation of the
: piece goes, you can't beat it.
: 
: The soloists are really excellent.  I have only a couple of quibbles with
: Gardiner's choice of tempo, but I can see the reasoning behind them.  Overall
: an excellent recording and worth the difference between 2 CDs and 3.
: 
: --Dylan Steinberg
: Swarthmore College
: Path: ramecs!trux!rphroy!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!think.com!ames!agate!ocf.berkeley.edu!wft
: From: wft@ocf.berkeley.edu (William F. Tell)
: Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
: Subject: Re: Handel's Messiah on CD
: Message-ID: <kkodfaINNg5e@agate.berkeley.edu>
: Date: 16 Dec 91 05:13:14 GMT
: References: <GFINK.91Dec9184900@bonzai.eecs.ucdavis.edu> <G4CBB81W@cc.swarthmore.edu> <1991Dec15.043115.10414@cbfsb.att.com>
: Organization: U.C. Berkeley
: Lines: 5
: NNTP-Posting-Host: planecrash.berkeley.edu
: 
: I think of the Messiah recordings on CD, Hogwood's stands out for the simple
: fact that they use a choir of men and boys rather than a mixed choir.  The
: choir of Christ Church Cathedral, Oxford is one of the best in England.
: 
: William F. Tell
: Path: ramecs!trux!rphroy!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!qt.cs.utexas.edu!cs.utexas.edu!rutgers!cunixf.cc.columbia.edu!nsh3
: From: nsh3@cunixf.cc.columbia.edu (Nadine S Harris)
: Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
: Subject: Re: Handel's Messiah on CD
: Message-ID: <1991Dec17.002047.18551@cunixf.cc.columbia.edu>
: Date: 17 Dec 91 00:20:47 GMT
: References: <G4CBB81W@cc.swarthmore.edu> <1991Dec15.043115.10414@cbfsb.att.com> <kkodfaINNg5e@agate.berkeley.edu>
: Reply-To: nsh3@cunixf.cc.columbia.edu (Nadine S Harris)
: Organization: Columbia University
: Lines: 27
: 
: In article <kkodfaINNg5e@agate.berkeley.edu> wft@ocf.berkeley.edu (William F. Tell) writes:
: >I think of the Messiah recordings on CD, Hogwood's stands out for the simple
: >fact that they use a choir of men and boys rather than a mixed choir.  The
: >choir of Christ Church Cathedral, Oxford is one of the best in England.
: 
: I have difficulty with this.  Why should this be better?  Boy singing
: is beautiful, but why should it be better for the MESSIAH?
: 
: Even if Handel used boys originally--and I don't know the answer to this--
: can you say he preferred such a choir?  The MESSIAH was performed many times
: in his lifetime, and the old man twisted it around
: in every instance to fit the forces available.  How can we say, for example,
: that the "refiner's fire" aria is more authentic for male alto, female
: alto or baritone or soprano?  How can we be sure which is Handel's
: *authentic* concept?  We know that he had the best male alto in England
: available for one performance, but not thereafter.  But how can we speak
: for his *ultimate* concept or taste?
: 
: He certainly enjoyed writing for female singers
: and choirs (in the opera, admittedly).  And one fact without question 
: is that Handel was a man of decidedly operatic taste all his life.
: 
: Beauty, however, makes its own choices,
: and if the correspondent loves the boychoir sound, I
: can certainly respect that.
: 
: Nadine nsh3@cunixf.cc.columbia.edu
: Path: ramecs!trux!rphroy!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!wupost!uunet!charon.amdahl.com!amdahl!nsc!voder!woodstock!news
: From: ray@thyme.sharebase.com (Ray Gebbie)
: Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
: Subject: Re: Handel's Messiah on CD
: Message-ID: <1991Dec18.010440.13363@sharebase.com>
: Date: 18 Dec 91 01:04:40 GMT
: References: <GFINK.91Dec9184900@bonzai.eecs.ucdavis.edu> <G4CBB81W@cc.swarthmore.edu> <1991Dec15.043115.10414@cbfsb.att.com>
: Reply-To: ray@thyme.sharebase.com (Ray Gebbie)
: Organization: Teradata/ShareBase Corporation
: Lines: 27
: Nntp-Posting-Host: thyme
: 
: In article <1991Dec15.043115.10414@cbfsb.att.com> wilber@homxb.att.com writes:
: >Although I don't have a compelling need for another recording of Handel's
: >Messiah, I am intrigued by McGegan's new recording, which has extra tracks for
: >all (or most) of the various versions of each section, so that you can program
: >up whichever version you like.  Is there anybody who has heard it who would
: >care to comment?
: >
: >Bob Wilber
: 
: I have had the privledge of attending performances of Messiah by Philharmonia
: Baroque/McGegan for 2 years now (most recently last Saturday), and I also have
: the CD.  I found McGegan's performance to be very similar to Gardiner's in the
: size of the groups and the generally lighter style.  The tempos are very fast,
: but there is an abundance of contrast in style, based very carefully on the
: texts.  I was throughly moved by the performance last year (just before the
: recording was done), but less so this year.  I have never heard an 'Amen'
: chorus that has effected me as that did.  It began slowly and softly and the
: volume and emotion built gradually up to the finale.  I was in tears by then.
: 
: As for the recording, I have not listened to all of it, but there is a problem
: with the placement of the soloists.  They tend to overwhem the orchestra.  The
: extra versions of the pieces are nice, but you have to program around them so
: that you don't hear them at the end of each disk.  They can get annoying if
: you listen straight through.
: 
: IMHO, I wish the recording captured the live performance.  But this has 
: always been a problem with recordings.
-- 
Christopher A. Rende           Central Cartage (Nixdorf/Pyramid/SysVR2/BSD4.3)
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