HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: faris@sarcasm.trl.OZ.AU (Aziz Faris)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.arabic
Subject: Re: Civilization bandwagon
Date: 20 Dec 92 21:04:58 GMT
Reply-To: a.Faris@trl.oz.au
Organization: Telecom Research Labs, Melbourne,Australia

In article <BzD145.4pE@newsflash.concordia.ca>, ilyess@ECE.Concordia.CA (Ilyess Bdira) writes:
|> 
|> Are you really sincere? why do you still insist on using "you Islamists" while
|> it is claer that Islamists disagree on many issues including the statement
|> below which I personally never said.

What should we call people who insist on Islamic way which has clear intentions
of discrimination by definition?. The fact that you ignore it shows that you
are not sincere and continue to ignore non-Muslims.

|> >
|> All third world countries especially Arab and African countries are worse
|> than most other governments. I can say that with certainty.

Is that entirely the fault of the governments?, I doubt that.

|> Now  that is a new definition of an Islamic government coming from a christian.
|> Sorry, my view of an Islamic government is a democratic government with an
|> Islamic constitution. The parlementary system in my opinion is the closest
|> one to the Islamic system.

Is this form of democratic system in the Qur'an or is allowed by the Hadiths, 
sunnahs etc.?.

|> I do not know why you keep telling me what I desire.
|> Islam's first declaration of faith is a fight against conservative attitudes.
|> It is against following ancestors, it is for renewal. If it was conservative
|> The prophet (p.b.u.h) would not have predicted that there will be every
|> century someone who will RENEW the religion for Muslims.

How could you not be conservative when you desire the application of Islamic
laws and consult the Qur'an for every situation that arises. Furthermore, you
want to apply that to non-Muslims.

|> 
|> Do you notice that I prefer living in Canada to living in Saudi Arabia?

Please tell us why?. I suppose Canada is the only country to have Islamic
democracy as you desire.

|> 
|> Do you know me? I doubt it.

I do not know you face to face, however, I have a good idea of your knowledge
and the way you think.

A.Faris
Newsgroups: soc.culture.arabic
From: lhermi@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (Lotfi Hermi)
Subject: Ibn Khaldun + some thoughts
Organization: The Ohio State University
Date: Sat, 19 Dec 1992 00:33:21 GMT

It is strange that some of you out there have a box full of labels which
are ready to be affixed the minute somebody posts something. From funda-
mentalist to Wahhabi to Salafist, to Modern Islamist to I don't know what.
Some even tried to teach us some Islamic Shari'a and the concept of Deen from
an Islamic point of view.  Even, the right to have a certain view of history,
some of you out there denied for us.  Well, Nicholas Jodar, here is the Ibn
Khaldun you inquired about. I am not really interested in your biased analysis,
it is just that I had some useful files that I wanted my friends out there to 
make use of, and open their eyes, to some of our traditional thought, as you 
might know and as Elie Wiesel said before "No nation lives without a memory."
----------------------------------------------------------------------------


		IBN KHALDUN  (Encyclop. of Islam pp 825 - 831)
				(1332-82 a.d.)	

One of the strongest personalities of Arabo-Muslim culture in the period of
its decline.  He is generally regarded as a historian, sociologist and philo-
sopher.  Thus his life and work already formed the subject of innumerable stu-
dies and given rise to the most varied and even contradictory interpretations.

Ibn Khaldun's life may be divided into 3 parts, the first of which (20 y) was
occupied by his childhood and education, the second (23 y) by the continuation
of his studies and by political adventures, and the third (31 y) by his life as
a scholar, teacher and magistrate. The first two periods were spent in the Mus-
lim West and the third was divided between the Maghrib and Egypt.

...

as the result of fusion of the traditional disciplines in which he had been
educated with the rich harvest of political experience which, trough bitter 
series of failures and impasses, has made him aware of the meaning and deep
significance of history ( his work on history : 'Ibar)... The pedestrian 
faqih which he might after all have been had become a historian of genius, and
even the founder of a number of disciplines which were to become some of the
From: cl056@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Hamaza H. Salah)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.arabic
Subject: Re: Does the PLO Represent the Palestinian Arabs?
Date: 17 Dec 1992 16:36:55 GMT
Organization: Case Western Reserve University, Cleveland, Ohio (USA)
NNTP-Posting-Host: hela.ins.cwru.edu



astein@nysernet.org (Alan Stein) writes:

>The PLO claims to represent the Palestinian Arabs.  In that case, how
>can it stand silently by while Palestinian Arabs are perpetuating
>murderous acts against innocent people, the cold-blooded murder of Mr.
>Toledano being only the latest?

Do you call the Israeli border guard officers "innocent people"?  Ask
Palestinians how innocent they are.  They kill and tourture Palestinians.
I remember one friend told me that they one time shot a Palestinian on his
head and tied him to their jeep and dirve the jeep while the wounded
man is bleeding from his head on the street.  On another incident
as we all watched on T.V., they brutally were breaking Palestinian kids
bones with rocks. And many other examples...
Now some jew comes and say, "these are just individual acts, and who did
them were detained for few hours."

>How can the PLO stand silently by while Palestinian Arabs are perpetuating
>murderous acts against innocent people??

What are you advocating?  Another wage of violence among Palestinians
themselves?  I bet you that is one of the question that is being raised
on the Israeli-Palestinian talk!!  I thought Jews still call the
PLO a terriorist group.  Of course, they can regard it as not, if they
can get something out of it..
Of course, Jews love to see Palestinians killing each other!!

>If it does indeed represent the Palestinian Arabs, then it has shown
>itself unworthy of that position.

I hope the PLO realizes what jews are saying and change its course.
-- 
                  ___________________ cl056@cleveland.Freenet.Edu _____________
                 (______   _  |   _  |_
_____ H A M Z A ________) |-| |_ |-| | |
Newsgroups: soc.culture.arabic
From: faris@sarcasm.trl.OZ.AU (Aziz Faris)
Subject: Re: Three troubling questions about Islam
Reply-To: a.Faris@trl.oz.au 
Organization: Telecom Research Labs, Melbourne,Australia
Date: Wed, 16 Dec 1992 03:18:47 GMT

|> In article <1g0797INNji3@usenet.INS.CWRU.Edu> cl056@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Hamaza H. Salah) writes:
 >
 >Islam tells us "fight those who fight you."  It even teaches us
 >how to fight: "If you meet your enemy in the battle field, scare
 >those who are in the back line by those who are in the front."
 >It also tells us, "Jews are the most enemy for muslims."  It also
 >tells us, "Jews will never ever trust us unless we become jews."
 >It also promises us, "Aqsa will be liberated by muslims from
 >jews."  And many more...  Read Quran and you'll find them.
 
 Is this guy for real?. He sounds like a stand up comedian. I thought the
 Qur'an teaches you to be a good human being not a barbaric one.
 
 >
 >How about this?  Does this violate Islamic priciples or put it
 >into parctice?
 
 You are the expert Boss.
 
 >
 >It is not corruption of Islam, it is preserving the well being
 >of the society.  As muslims we read back in history thru Quran
 >and know what happened to the people of "Loot."  You may also find
 >the story in the bible.  God destoryed their village.  It is
 >now under the dead sea.  God created living beings by nature so
 >male and female to marry to each other.  I never seen a male
 >animal marry to a male animal, or a female animal marry to a
 >female animal.  Of course, some jews like a corrupted society
 >for muslims rather than a strong one.
 >
 
 Did you personally dive into the dead sea to see if that village is indeed
 buried there?.
 
 This explains the fact that you and other Islamists lack historical knowledge,
 you get your history and religion from the same place. Hence, you issue
 challenges of history evidences and have total misconception about the history
 of mankinds civilisation. I suggest that you brush on your history lessons
 mate (You seem to be naive, mate in Australia means friend not you know
 what ...).
 
 A.Faris
From: afm@eniac.seas.upenn.edu (Santa Claus...)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.arabic
Subject: News from the occupied West Bank and Gaza Strip.
Date: 20 Dec 92 03:17:16 GMT
Organization: University of Pennsylvania

I have just learned that 9 Palestinians were killed by the Israeli army in 
clashes in the West Bank and Gaza Strip over the expulsion of the 400 
Palestinians. One of the victims is a 7-year old girl.
This news is not confirmed as yet. If anyone has heard anything like that, 
please post.

	-afm
Newsgroups: soc.culture.arabic
From: faris@sarcasm.trl.OZ.AU (Aziz Faris)
Subject: Re: The Arab-Jewish Question (Re: Roger Carrasso)
Reply-To: a.Faris@trl.oz.au 
Organization: Telecom Research Labs, Melbourne,Australia
Date: Wed, 16 Dec 1992 01:07:37 GMT

In article <Dec08.001957.42567@yuma.ACNS.ColoState.EDU>, bh437292@longs.LANCE.ColoState.Edu (Basil Hamdan) writes:
|> 
|> Can you get beyond empty and petty sarcastic remarks ?
|> I see that you have a tendency to be over-aggressive in your
|> posts so this will be the first and last time I answer you.
|> Have a good day. 
|> 
|> Basil

No Basil, it is very healthy to debate these things regardless of how people
like Nabeel approach things. I think he actually has softened up drastically
since he started posting. The future looks amazingly brighter with persistance.

I think Nabeel just has a bit more of piss and vinegar in his blood than most
people, which at certain times is good.

A.Faris
Newsgroups: soc.culture.arabic
From: jle@locus.com (John Elghani/10000000)
Subject: Re: Homosexuality
Organization: LC
Date: Sun, 13 Dec 1992 19:51:13 GMT

In article <nabeel.724198978@oracle.sce.carleton.ca> nabeel@sce.carleton.ca (Rosignolo) writes:
>Students of animal behaviour report uinambiguous evidence of 
>homosexual attachments and behaviour in insects, fish, birds 
>and lower and higher mammals. There is evidence of anal 
>penetration of one male by another and emission of semen
>[Ruse, "Homosexuality"]. "What is natural for others is not 
>necessarily natural for us, nor do all human organs have simple 
>obvious uses. Ruse gives a good discussion and concludes that 
>the morality of homosexuality must be judged on other grounds 
>than biological naturalness.


If the human anus hole happened to be at the bottom of the foot, do you
think the homosexuals will seek it as well? Or is it because it is
near the area of a woman's vegina, it tends to appear like one?

Is it ok to seek other holes such as the belly botton, ear, nose, ...etc?

As to emission of seman, it is irrelevant because  that could occur
without penetration of any kind;   wet dreams, masterbation, ...etc
cause emision as well.

jle
From: dave@eram.esi.COM.AU (Dave Horsfall)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.arabic,soc.culture.australian
Subject: Re: wedding customs?
Date: 20 Dec 92 23:23:13 GMT
Followup-To: soc.culture.australian
Organization: Pacific ESI, Sydney, AUSTRALIA
X-Disclaimer: "Me, speak for us?"
X-Witty-Saying: "Mobius strip - see other side for instructions"

In article <1992Dec17.160133.3062@peanut>,
    willemsdawnm@bvc.edu writes:

| I am currently doing a paper on wedding customs of different societies.

Well, in Australia the bloke holding the shotgun is the bride's father.
The mother is the one in tears.

-- 
Dave Horsfall (VK2KFU)         VK2KFU @ VK2RWI.NSW.AUS.OC
dave@esi.COM.AU                ...munnari!esi.COM.AU!dave
Newsgroups: soc.culture.arabic
From: nabeel@sce.carleton.ca (Bulbul)
Subject: Re: Three troubling questions about Islam
Organization: Carleton University
Date: Mon, 14 Dec 1992 19:48:01 GMT

In <1992Dec14.182843.2098@galileo.cc.rochester.edu> abde@troi.cc.rochester.edu (Tamer A. Abdelgawad) writes:

" Sorry for taking so long to respond.
" I agree.  Does the verse however mean that if Israel behaves, and Jerusalem
" is internationalized (i.e. the promise to 'enter the mosque' is fulfilled),
" that the second promise is fulfilled?

   I take it that we are the only ones ("^ibAd liLAh") who had ever entered
the mosque once and the next is promised. There is also an explicit promise
by Hadiths for the end of time all out Jew-Muslim war.

" Remember my original point:  The Quran does not tell us to exterminate Israel.
" This should not be taken to mean:  Let Israel do what it wants in the middle
" east.  The current Israeli occupation of the West Bank and Gaza, and the 
" anexation of Jerusalem and the Golan are unacceptable to almost any Muslim or
" Arab.  But can't we negotiate instead of fight?

   What middle solution do you have in your mind? How can you substantiate
this solution Islamically?

" Tamer Abdelgawad

** "ninsa Li can biNa mbAri.h, i.Sol.hi .kair!"

             _
 |\_________(@)= |CENSORED|    The above is fiction. I hope you enjoyed it!
   \_\  --/ _/                      
     \=====/       "wa lI qalamon  fI 'onmolI  'in hazaztohO            
        ||            famA  .duRunI   'aLA  'ahoZa   lmohaNadA
        ~~          'i_thA .sUla fawqa .Tirsi waq^o .sarIrihI
                     fa'iNa  .sulIla  lmashrafiYi  lahO  .sudA" 
                                           -- ibn Sana' Al-Mulk
Newsgroups: soc.culture.arabic
From: abde@troi.cc.rochester.edu (Tamer A. Abdelgawad)
Subject: Arabic music on CD
Summary: Info. appreciated
Keywords: Arabic music, CD
Organization: University of Rochester (Rochester, NY)
Date: Sun, 20 Dec 92 09:01:57 GMT

I would like to know if there is any Arabic music on compact disks.  If
so, are there any mail order houses in North America where they can be
bought?

Thanks,
Tamer Abdelgawad

P.S.  I'm already aware of the Madonna album :-)


Newsgroups: soc.culture.arabic,soc.culture.misc,soc.misc,alt.sex
From: st923336@pip.cc.brandeis.edu (Matt)
Subject: Re: Ear Rings
Reply-To: st923336@pip.cc.brandeis.edu
Organization: Brandeis University
Date: Mon, 14 Dec 1992 22:55:00 GMT

It's fairly well documented that various African tribes would take slaves
from the members of other tribes.  I'm not too sure about Australia, but
the Aztecs (or Incas -- i'm not sure) would take prisoners of war and sell
them into slavery (if they didn't get sacrificed).  I'd have to agree on 
the ideas that there's little relationship between slavery and earrings.  
As I recall, the Romans sold lots of people into slavery and I can't 
remember ever seeing a picture or statue of a Roman with an earring(s)

Humbly,
Me
Newsgroups: soc.culture.arabic,talk.politics.mideast
From: nabeel@sce.carleton.ca (Bulbul)
Subject: Flirting with the Holy Man (tm)
Organization: Carleton University
Date: Sat, 12 Dec 1992 22:48:35 GMT

   Recently, I came across an Arabic newspaper "Al-Maskhara" published in
Bahamas by a handful of "safilati lqawmi wa saqa.ti lmatA^." To pass to the
reader the high level of manners of its editors I quote this part of sentence
of a staff member called "Ghada Haidar" attacking Laila the wife of Ghassan
Zakariyya the editor in chief of "Sorakia," (published in the UK) Ghada 
writes (to Laila, translated) (and some people oppose imprisoning women in
dungeons ;-)):

   "If you were a daughter of a dog, I am a daughter of sixty dogs ..."

[Ghuzlaan, Nabeel Ghuzlaan, how do you do?] I can't believe that there 
exist an Arab (or nonArab) readership that have the three qualities 
required for reading this "paper" namely, extreme stupidity, tastelessness
and lack of concience. You may want to read an issue, but do not do it 
after meals lest you may puke.

Anyway, assuming it was true where they quoted the Algerian minister of
religious affairs to say to Egyptians about the Iranian "terrorist"
intervention of their affairs: 
"They do not respect the favour that Arabs spread Islam to Persia." 
I leave to the reader to think of five reasons
why this statement is ignorant, wrong and stupid.

This hanful of drags of the drags of humanity consider King Fahd sort of
the legitimate inheritor of the Prophet, (fashar abOh) that is why I
wrote the poetry below after years of quit--to thank this guy. It is
funny who support Fahd, his fellow drags of humanoid parasites.

In memory of the old days of Jareer (may God be merciful to him) or rather
Al-Mutanabbi, I wrote this poetry flirting with the holy guardian (apologies
to the guys in the University of Toronto if they do not have me already at
the top of their kill files):

_thaylon bi_thaqni Taysi zaYan wajhahO
                                        lawlA jafAfo lmA'i minho tajaMadA
jama^at safAhatoho lbarAdata wa l.kanA
                                      'aMa l.hayA'o falan yarAho mo'aBadA
najison tadaNasati lbilAdo bifisqihI
                                     .duNan ^ala l'islAmi 'an yatashaHadA
fal.hamdo liLAhi l^azIzi lqAhirI
                                     wa salAmohO bala.ga NabiYa mo.hAMadA

             _
 |\_________(@)= |CENSORED|    The above is fiction. I hope you enjoyed it!
   \_\  --/ _/                      
     \=====/       "wa lI qalamon  fI 'onmolI  'in hazaztohO            
        ||            famA  .duRunI   'aLA  'ahoZa   lmohaNadA
        ~~          'i_thA .sUla fawqa .Tirsi waq^o .sarIrihI
                      fa'iNa .sulIla  lmashrafiYi  lahO  .sudA" 
                                           -- ibn Sana' Al-Mulk
Newsgroups: soc.culture.arabic
From: ilyess@ECE.Concordia.CA (Ilyess Bdira)
Subject: Re: Political cleansing in Egypt
Organization: ECE - Concordia University
Date: Mon, 14 Dec 1992 22:48:50 GMT

In article <1992Dec14.194838.4211@galileo.cc.rochester.edu> abde@troi.cc.rochester.edu (Tamer A. Abdelgawad) writes:
>
>The Egyptian Mossad? Huh?
>
Well, what do you call it over there Mukhabarat? too long a word.
>>
>>The egyptian government have been ruling by decree and imposed emergency
>>measures since 1981 and it is extending it every time it expires..
>>You say that there is freedom of speech, mabe compared to Tunisia, but
>>it would not compare favourably even with Cuba.
>>
>
>Didn't we have this discussion before?  Do I have to remind you again that 
>Egyptian opposition newspapers (Elwafd, ElSha'ab, ElAhrar,...) write what
>they want, and they spare the government no criticism (usually valid)?

O.K I forgot to admit that, I also forgot to mention that SOME judges
are independent in Egypt, which is something that is unheard of in Tunisia
or most other Arab countries.
Still, there is no use when the opposition is allowed to speak to
a very small minority that can both read and buy a newspaper that is
half their daily wage.. Those who do that know how corrupt the government
is in the first place. I read those newpapers (at least Ashaab and ElAhrar)
and it is clear that there are strict limits on what they can publish.
>
>>Of course you yourself know that there will be much more freedom
>>under the strictest of Islamists than there is in Egypt right now,
>>you just have to say what you said because it fits your agenda.
>>
>
>The "strictest of Islamists" are shooting innocent tourists.
>
I will believe that when they are convicted in a fair trial in
a democracy. Something that is not about to happen very soon

>>I do not know if you are ignorant about this, but don't you know already
>>that the Egyptian government is envolved in drug trade just like
>>Noriega was when he was under CIA payroll? Do you know of Drug scandal
>
>You can claim anything you want.  But if you want to be taken seriously,
>you have to back up your claims.
>
All of my "claims" are from western sources freindly to al of the
regimes, they would not lie about their own allies.
Many Egyptians I met also mentined that the police is envolved in drug
traffic and that many new policemen were kicked out because they made
wrong moves by stopping some influencial drug dealers.


=============================================================
Modified Murphy's first law of realistic probability:
If it can happen, it will happen...
Unless of course "it" is a good thing.
::::::::::::::********************************:::::::::::::::
Ilyess Ben Ali Bdira    Montreal Quebec  Canada
E-mail ilyess@ECE.concordia.CA, benali@alcor.concordia.CA
Phone Number and Address variable...
::::::::::::::********************************:::::::::::::::
From: cl056@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Hamaza H. Salah)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.arabic
Subject: To Roger Carrasso
Date: 18 Dec 1992 16:56:46 GMT
Organization: Case Western Reserve University, Cleveland, Ohio (USA)
NNTP-Posting-Host: hela.ins.cwru.edu



carasso@Turing.ORG (Roger Carasso) posts again dirty
articles that offend every Arab on sca:

    ARABS AND KURDS
    ARABS AND CAMEL

Only a stinky dirty zion and one of those described in the
elder zion protocols posts dirty articles like those on sca.

How do you like that?

Go and cry now to every jew on the net!
                                  
-- 
                  ___________________ cl056@cleveland.Freenet.Edu _____________
                 (______   _  |   _  |_
_____ H A M Z A ________) |-| |_ |-| | |
From: cl056@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Hamaza H. Salah)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.arabic
Subject: Re: Salah El-Deen Men's are still Around
Date: 15 Dec 1992 18:06:32 GMT
Organization: Case Western Reserve University, Cleveland, Ohio (USA)
NNTP-Posting-Host: hela.ins.cwru.edu



Two weeks ago, Sixty Minutes program showed
the abducted Sheikh of Hizbullah in an
Israeli jail.  It also was clear from the
program that Israel is 100% willing to free
the abducted Shiekh in the return of the
captured pilot over Lebanon.

Surprisingly enough, over the weekend Hamas
heros got the idea quickly to free  their
Sheikh as well.  Alas, this time Israel's
reaction was different.

Did they make a mistake by broadcasting
a deal like this on Sixty Minutes?
One has to question how smart people are
sometimes....

"We will overtake them by degrees, from whence they perceive not."
AlQalam 44

-- 
                  ___________________ cl056@cleveland.Freenet.Edu _____________
                 (______   _  |   _  |_
_____ H A M Z A ________) |-| |_ |-| | |
From: afm@eniac.seas.upenn.edu (Santa Claus...)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.arabic
Subject: Re: Does the PLO Represent the Palestinian Arabs?
Date: 17 Dec 92 14:54:56 GMT
Organization: University of Pennsylvania

In article <1992Dec17.020237.12364@nysernet.org> astein@nysernet.org (Alan Stein) writes:
>The PLO claims to represent the Palestinian Arabs.  In that case, how
>can it stand silently by while Palestinian Arabs are perpetuating
>murderous acts against innocent people, the cold-blooded murder of Mr.
>Toledano being only the latest?
>
>If it does indeed represent the Palestinian Arabs, then it has shown
>itself unworthy of that position.
>-- 
>Alan H. Stein   -----  AJIN   -----  astein@israel.nysernet.org

There is a state of freedom war in the West Bank and Gaza Strip. I cannot
seem to find any correlation between the representation of the PLO, and the
victims from *both* sides that are a result of the situation. The PLO does 
represent the Palestinians, and as one small example, just take a look at the 
Palestinian delegation to the Peace Talks and who they represent!!

afm