HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: jerry@lds-az.loral.com (J Barbera)
Newsgroups: alt.religion.scientology
Subject: Re: scn compensation
Date: 15 Oct 92 12:57:15 GMT
Organization: Loral Defense Systems Arizona

I had originally intended to reply this message in full.  However, Eric
seems to have intentionally altered the quote (>j) from my previous reply
for whatever reason in the following:

In article <1992Oct14.073745.18580@microsoft.com> erichill@microsoft.com (Eric Hill) writes:
>
>e>In the time I was in the SO, The average age of new recruits
>
>e>was around 20.  Most of the  "professional" training that the
>
>e>SO receive is the
>
>e>overly simplistic, rote learning continually laced with the
>
>e>opinions of the old man.  Not exactly collage level learning to
>
>e>think.  Not exactly well trained professionals or the top in their
>
>e>fields.
>
>
>
>j The training is appropriate for the various posts people have in addition
>
>j to executive training such as the OEC/FEBC training.  It's not like
>
>j college stuff, yet it isn't suppose to be.  However, your original statement
>
>j was that the average SO membetending an accredited collage.
>
            ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Maybe it was simply a computer glitch.  However, this last line does not
contain what *I* had said (and if I had said it, the word collage would
be college).

Therefore, I am declining at this time to continue this thread with Eric.
From: lindsay+@cs.cmu.edu (Donald Lindsay)
Subject: Re: Dianetics books.
Organization: School of Computer Science, Carnegie Mellon
Date: Thu, 8 Oct 1992 02:39:05 GMT


jerry@lds-az.loral.com (J Barbera) writes:
>This is a Scientology newsgroup.  As such lists of Scientology books are
>relevant.  As relevant if not more than Lindsay's anti-Scientology book list.


Actually, I have no such criterion. The best proof of this may be
that I referenced the Encyclopedia of American Religions. In the
first edition (1978) we find:

"One pattern repeated frequently in the Scientologist controversies
has been strong assertions against the church (or Hubbard), followed
by press exposure, lawsuits and the clear establishment of the
falsity of the original assertions."

The 2nd Edition repeats the above sentence exactly, although the
article is amended to contain the news of Mary Sue Hubbard's jail
sentence. The 3rd Edition (1989) has a slight wording change:
".., lawsuits, and the attempt to clearly establish the falsity.."

I would be glad to include a laudatory book, but I do exclude the
Church's books. Those are readily available and are actively
promoted by an organization that is easy to find.
-- 
Don		D.C.Lindsay 	Carnegie Mellon Computer Science
From: lindsay+@cs.cmu.edu (Donald Lindsay)
Newsgroups: alt.religion.scientology
Subject: Re: Experiment to verify ARC theory
Date: 16 Oct 92 01:00:02 GMT
Organization: School of Computer Science, Carnegie Mellon


isds11990012@memstvx1.memst.edu writes:
>Here is an experiment that you can do to independently veryify one
>of the most basic principles of Scientology.

>1A.  Then you coach one twin out of each pair in one group not to agree
>with anything the other one says.  You don't tell anyone else in that group
>or the control group what is happening.
	...

Pardon, but this is just a psychology experiment. Hubbard had read
some of the psychology literature before writing "Dianetics" (you
have heard of Freud, for instance? Hubbard mentioned him.) Psychology
was taught at universities back then, and it still is.
-- 
Don		D.C.Lindsay 	Carnegie Mellon Computer Science
Newsgroups: alt.religion.scientology
From: decot@cup.hp.com (Dave Decot)
Subject: Re: Two questions...
Date: Fri, 9 Oct 1992 23:29:25 GMT
Organization: Make a Wish Foundation
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1.4 PL6]

: Actually, I think it has something to do with the digitizing process used to
: restore some of the older LRH lectures from the 50's and 60's.  At a 
: briefing I was at, they [people who use Clearsound in Scn] demonstrated
: a before Clearsound (muffled) and an after (very clear).

That would explain why it was used in that new movie.  Very interesting.

The soundtrack must actually be derived from muffled LRH lectures from
the 50's and 60's.

Dave
From: isds11990012@memstvx1.memst.edu
Newsgroups: alt.religion.scientology
Subject: Experiment to verify ARC theory
Date: 14 Oct 92 02:39:31 GMT
Organization: Memphis State University

Here is an experiment that you can do to independently veryify one
of the most basic principles of Scientology.  I really hoped that you
would be more interested in using the data to improve conditions,
but for those who demand proof...

This is about the ARC triangle.  You can and should read up about this
before you try this experiment.  The data about ARC is found in several
Scientology books, but Scientology: The Fundamentals of Thought is probably
the one you can find easiest.  Get it from the library if you don't want to
buy it.

No matter what I say, some of you will refuse to look at the book, so
allow me to give a basic explantion of the theory that I propose we test.

ARC is a word that we use in Scientology to represent understanding.

The A stands for affinity.  By affinity we mean the degree of likingness
between people.  It also means the willingness to occupy the same
space.  In other words, the higher the affinity the smaller the distance
between the people.

R is Reality.  What we are talking about is the degree of agreement
reached between people.

C is Communication.   More specifically its willingness to communicate.

We put them together like this.....

   R
  / \
 A---C
 
The reason they are put together is because they are sort of connected.
If you raise affinity (like someone more), R and C will rise also (they
will agree with you more and be more willing to communicate)

Also if you disagree with someone (lower R) they will like you less
(Affinity is lowered) and will be less willing to communicate (C goes down.)

Make a few more examples of your own so that you have the idea and it
is yours before we actually test the theory.

Here is the experiment.

1.  Get 100 volunteers and divide them into two groups of 25 twins.

1A.  Then you coach one twin out of each pair in one group not to agree
with anything the other one says.  You don't tell anyone else in that group
or the control group what is happening.

2.  Have each pair of twins spend two hours in a room alone with the other
twin.

3.  After the two hours, survey the twins and measure how much they like
each other and how willing they are to communicate to each other.

4.  Do some statistics or tabulate the results however you like.

According to the theory of ARC, the twins in the control group will be
more willing to communicate with the other twin than the twins who have
been disagreed with.

Try it, or develop your own experiment and then report the results. 

Later...
John Holifield
Newsgroups: alt.religion.scientology
From: jerry@lds-az.loral.com (J Barbera)
Newsgroups: alt.religion.scientology
Subject: Re: Two questions...
Date: 9 Oct 92 09:13:59 GMT
Organization: Loral Defense Systems Arizona

Re: Clearsound.

Actually, I think it has something to do with the digitizing process used to
restore some of the older LRH lectures from the 50's and 60's.  At a 
briefing I was at, they [people who use Clearsound in Scn] demonstrated
a before Clearsound (muffled) and an after (very clear).
From: jerry@lds-az.loral.com (J Barbera)
Subject: Re: Introduction.
Organization: Loral Defense Systems Arizona
Date: Sat, 10 Oct 1992 21:17:01 GMT

>>>I like Scientology.  I've benefited from Scientology.  I believe that
>>>(1) Scientology as a science and religion is beneficial [...]
 
>Sorry Jonathan,
>
>I've been a Scientologist for 20 years and I must say that it is NOT a
>science.  Not a true science by todays definition.  It is a religion
>that is founded on facts that were obtained by scientific type methods
>and not 'faith' or 'word of God'.  Let's get that straight.
>But don't let it be said that LRH never did his research.
 
Not to argue the point (having been well argued here before), but I'm
curious as to "today's definition" of science.  What is it?
 
>BTW my training level is class IV, FPRD auditor
>Processing level is new OT5.
>Current course KTL to complete this weekend.
>IAS level 'almost a sponsor'
 
VWD.
 
>Just so you don't get the idea I'm some out ethics sleaze running amok
>on the net :-)
 
No problem.
From: lindsay+@cs.cmu.edu (Donald Lindsay)
Newsgroups: alt.religion.scientology
Subject: Re: A question or 2 about "science"
Date: 16 Oct 92 02:51:03 GMT
Organization: School of Computer Science, Carnegie Mellon

isds11990012@memstvx1.memst.edu writes:
>If I observe something for myself and see that it is the way LRH says,
>why doesn't this make it true?

The history of science is full of things which were mis-explained.

For example, in 1896 Henri Becquerel heard that X-rays could expose a
photographic film, right through a paper wrapper. He knew that
certain crystals glowed in sunlight. Hmm, maybe the glow included
X-rays. He did an experiment, and sure enough, the glow exposed film,
right through the paper. He did checks, to make sure. He put metal
shapes under the crystals, he put out films with no crystal, and so
on.  He'd proved it, right?

Nope. One day it wasn't sunny. He developed the film anyway - even
though it had been in a dark drawer - and became the discoverer of
radioactivity. His crystals contained uranium.

The point, of course, is that a result can have many possible
explanations. Scientists have got used to the idea of having only
*provisional* explanations. General Relativity could get overturned
tomorrow, and we'd be ready.

To get back to Scientology, it's not clear to me that LRH's
theories are the only theories that explain the facts.



-- 
Don		D.C.Lindsay 	Carnegie Mellon Computer Science
From: jerry@lds-az.loral.com (J Barbera)
Newsgroups: alt.religion.scientology
Subject: Re: Scientology/illegal activities
Date: 13 Oct 92 07:17:09 GMT
Organization: Loral Defense Systems Arizona

In article <1992Oct13.035218.7622@atlantis.uucp> rimbaud@atlantis.uucp (Tim Hill) writes:
>
>	What I find worrying about Scientology is not the lack of evidence to support its claims - all major religions have large cracks in their supporting evidence - but the illegal activities they take upon themselves in "defence" of their religion.  Any orga
>nization that harrasses reporters (even to the extent of using "doubles" to achieve indictment of anti-Scientology individuals) and is convicted of spying on police departments has GOT to be bad news.

Could you cite a few sources?  Otherwise, these statements belong in a very
old pile of rumors which anti-Scientologists have been pulling from for
years...
From: pae@teal.csn.org (Phil Earnhardt)
Newsgroups: alt.religion.scientology
Subject: Re: Some definitions and Comments
Date: 16 Oct 92 15:11:59 GMT
Organization: Colorado SuperNet, Inc.

In article <raz.719232456@syzygy> raz@socs.uts.edu.au (The Inimitable Raz) writes:
>[....] Common usage regards (IMHO) science to be that body of knowledge which
>can be regarded as being true and well tested, thus likely to be true in all
>environments. (Sorry for not elucidating this properly, it's late. My point
>is that Science is not veiwed as what someone else says/believes is true, it
>is veiwed as what IS true. The way of reaching these two bodies of knowledge
>is very different.)

Actually, Science has nothing to do with what IS true; it has to do with
determining rules which approximate what happens in the world. And then
applying those rules and seeing how well they fit.

There is no committment to viewing those rules as truth. It's actually the
opposite -- people are always looking to refine those rules. Nothing is
cast in stone.

If you're looking for a fundamental principle of Science, I'd say that
testability of those rules may be the most important thing. In any case, truth
doesn't have anything to do with it.

>raz@socs.uts.edu.au   (Roland Turner)   (OH) 61 2 906 4681

--phil
From: jerry@lds-az.loral.com (J Barbera)
Newsgroups: alt.religion.scientology
Subject: Re: Re: Creed.
Date: 7 Oct 92 04:47:05 GMT
Organization: Loral Defense Systems Arizona

In article <1992Oct06.080529.16536@microsoft.com> erichill@microsoft.com (Eric Hill) writes:
>In article <1992Oct2.080802.4209@lds-az.loral.com> jerry@lds-az.loral.com (J Barbera) writes:
>>To add to a statement made by John regarding the $27 per week allowance for
>>Sea Org members:
>>
>>First of all, the weekly allowance varies depending on training level up to
>>$30 (the average for most) with something like $22.50 for new members still
>>receiving basic training (and spending 5 hrs. per day in the course room).
>>
>>Next, it should be noted that SO members receive clothes, food, and 
>>berthing (place to sleep) ... all of which adds up when an average SO org
>>such as AOLA has around two hundred staff.  In addition to buildings,
>>office supplies, and so forth.
>>
>
>So, the S.O. pays poverty wages and so the vast majority of recruits
>are of low education and thereby easier to indoctrinate.
>You get what you pay for and the S.O. is full of poorly educated
>heavily indoctrinated individuals.  One's first duties in the 
>S.O.  is 5 hours a day of basics, including how to read if needed.
>Not exactly professional management staff.
      
"vast majority"?  That's quite a generalization.  And as an ex-SO member,
I take some offense at such a remark.  SO members are not generally of
"low education".  "full of poorly educated..." is simply not accurate.
Receiving $30 per week has no reflection on the education of the average
SO member.  Keep in mind that Scientology is a religion and that the Sea Org
consists of dedicated Scientologists.  They aren't there to make a profit.

(So, how much do those Catholic monks make?  Probably reflects their
educational level, aye?)
From: mworley@mathcs.emory.edu (Meg Worley)
Newsgroups: alt.appalachian
Subject: Re: Banjo traffic kills another news.group
Date: 9 Oct 92 13:44:03 GMT
Organization: Emory University, Dept of Math and CS

In article <1b1bddINNpfu@usenet.INS.CWRU.Edu>, bh419@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Ted B Samsel) writes:
 
> I thought accordions did that. (I play them)

Gee, I though accordions only killed roommates. (me too)

meg


-- 

 Meg Worley 				Internet:  mworley@mathcs.emory.edu		
Newsgroups: alt.appalachian
From: jfurr@vtssi.vt.EDU (Joel Furr)
Subject: help
Organization: The Ohio State University Department of Computer and Information Science
Date: Thu, 15 Oct 1992 06:16:49 GMT

Argh.

I'd been going through and compiling the alt.appalachian user poll I've posted
periodically, and when I went to get the posts from August 25 on, I found that
they'd been expired off our server even though I'd thought we'd set the thing
to save them for 2 months.

Can someone email me the posts from 8/25/92 to date so I can finish compiling?

------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Joel Furr                                                   jfurr@vtssi.vt.edu
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: takoosma@utkvx3.utk.edu (Toby Koosman)
Newsgroups: alt.appalachian
Subject: Re: essay
Date: 16 Oct 92 20:39:00 GMT
Organization: University of Tennessee Computing Center
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41

I'm interested in what Chris's description of this dance is based on: stories
from relatives, research, fancy?  I question some of the details--for example,
it was my understanding that playing medleys of tunes for a dance is not
traditional.  If they did play medleys, speaking as a dance musician I find it
surprising that they would change tunes on the fly in response to requests,
unrehearsed transitions being tricky.  

Our image of mountain dancing is perhaps sentimental.  A friend of mine runs
the Old Farmer's Ball near Asheville, and has talked to oldtimers who remember
witnessing murders there.  Seventy years ago when the Campbell folk school in
Brasstown wanted to offer a dance program, they called it "exercise."  I
believe this explains the Berea College dance program's obsession with
presenting dancing as a wholesome activity--an attitude that in the '70s was 
the source of much tension between its director, John Ramsay, and the benignly
rowdy Knoxville Country Dancers who used to descend on his dances with beer
and marijuana on their breath and what Dr. John accounted as indecent sleeping
arrangements on their minds.

Toby Koosman
University of Tennessee   Knoxville, Tennessee  USA
Internet: koosman@utkvx.utk.edu     Bitnet: koosman@utkvx
Newsgroups: alt.appalachian
From: mhr@hpuerca.atl.hp.com (Mike Reaser)
Subject: Re: essay
Date: Thu, 15 Oct 1992 20:54:30 GMT
Organization: a stone mountain of Kudzu


Thanks for story!  Brought back memories of my grandmother's family
in eastern Kentucky (Pike, Lawrence, Letcher counties).


=======================================================================
 Mike Reaser, Hewlett-Packard N. Amer. Response Center - Atlanta
 Internet:  mhr@hpuerca.atl.hp.com
 NBCS: B4 f w g+ k s-               I barely speak for myself, so
 #include <standard.disclaimer>       don't make me speak for HP
=======================================================================
From: rnatesan@HP-UX (Ramke Natesan)
Newsgroups: alt.appalachian
Subject: pls ignore, testing
Date: 10 Oct 92 00:15:47 GMT


		************ TESTING **********
From: bh419@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Ted B Samsel)
Newsgroups: alt.appalachian
Subject: Re: Banjo traffic kills another news.group
Date: 8 Oct 1992 13:00:29 GMT
Organization: Case Western Reserve University, Cleveland, Ohio (USA)
NNTP-Posting-Host: hela.ins.cwru.edu


I thought accordions did that. (I play them)
-- 
Ted....
Newsgroups: alt.appalachian
From: jfurr@vtssi.vt.EDU (Joel Furr)
Subject: ARGH
Organization: The Ohio State University Department of Computer and Information Science
Date: Wed, 14 Oct 1992 06:57:48 GMT

Argh.

I'd been going through and compiling the alt.appalachian user poll I've posted
periodically, and when I went to get the posts from August 25 on, I found that
they'd been expired off our server even though I'd thought we'd set the thing
to save them for 2 months.

Can someone email me the posts from 8/25/92 to date so I can finish compiling?

------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Joel Furr                                                   jfurr@vtssi.vt.edu
------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Newsgroups: alt.appalachian
From: pkteagarden@bobcat.lmc.edu (Phil Teagarden)
Subject: Re: Stories wanted
Organization: Lees-McRae College, Banner Elk, NC
Date: Wed, 7 Oct 1992 14:59:51 GMT

In article <1992Oct6.072954.1735@gnv.ifas.ufl.edu> ljhr@gnv.ifas.ufl.edu writes:

>I'm interested in getting ahold of any ghost stories or other such weirdness
>from people who live in or used to live in Appalachia.  If you could identify
>the area from which the story comes (state, county, township, town) I'd be
>grateful.

The Center for Appalachian Studies at Appalachian St. Univ. in Boone, N.C. 
might be able to help you.  They have a marvelous resource center.  Also, 
Ray Hicks, in Banner Elk, N.C. tells ghost stories and might be a source.

(PKTeagarden@bobcat.lmc.edu)
From: shuford@cs.utk.edu (Richard Shuford)
Newsgroups: alt.appalachian
Subject: European companies (was Re: Scratch 'n' Dent Beemer)
Followup-To: alt.appalachian
Date: 8 Oct 92 14:03:20 GMT
Organization: University of Tennessee, Knoxville--Dept. of Computer Science
Distribution: na
Expires: 30 Nov 1992 22:23:24 GMT
NNTP-Posting-Host: duncan.cs.utk.edu
Summary: European companies in South Carolina
Keywords: BMW, Michelin

In article <1992Sep30.201240.14585@cs.unca.edu>, streeter@cs.unca.edu
 (Tom Streeter) wrote:
> 
> BMW is breaking ground on their new assembly plant in Spartanburg Co.
> South Carolina.  A question occurred to me this morning:  are they 
> going to really get into the spirit of being a factory in the south and
> have an outlet store?

When I was living in Spartanburg, I worked across the road from the
tire factory operated by Michelin.  There is a little reception area
in the plant, where members of the public can walk in and buy ...
copies of the Michelin Guide.  But not tires.

BMW employees should feel strangely at home in Spartanburg.  Many
German and Swiss companies have set up shop there in the past 20 years.
There are so many factories with Germanic signs out front along a
section of Interstate-85 that the highway is locally referred to as
"The Autobahn".

Auf wiedersehen.

-- 
 ....Richard S. Shuford  | "When the righteous triumph, there is great elation;
 ....shuford@cs.utk.edu  |  but when the wicked rise to power, men go into
 ....BIX: richard        |  hiding."  Proverbs 28:12 NIV
Newsgroups: alt.appalachian
From: jfurr@vtssi.vt.EDU (Joel Furr)
Newsgroups: alt.appalachian
Subject: Hi
Date: 9 Oct 92 16:52:09 GMT
Organization: The Ohio State University Department of Computer and Information Science

Apologies to alt.appalachian... as the person who started this group up, I
haven't been very active here lately.  I'm still hoping someone will come
forward and offer an FTP site for us to archive the best-of-alt.appalachian
articles on, but no one's done this... and since I get flames when I repost
them all, I've left off reposting them all.

I am still working my way through the alt.appalachian user poll results and
hope to have a compiled summary available soon.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Joel Furr                                                   jfurr@vtssi.vt.edu
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: miner@kuhub.cc.ukans.edu
Newsgroups: alt.appalachian
Subject: Re: Banjo traffic kills another news.group
Date: 9 Oct 92 07:00:24 CDT
Organization: University of Kansas Academic Computing Services

In article <1992Oct5.183850.13651@ulowell.ulowell.edu>, wex@cs.ulowell.edu (Paul M. Wexelblat) writes:
> 
> Having noted the precipitous drop in traffic since the subject of Banjos
> was raised, I wish to issue the following warning:
> 
> Raising the subject of the Banjo in virtually any group will
> severely impact the viability of that group; withess the demise of
> 
> alt.humor.banjo
> rec.music.folk.banjo
> sci.sex.banjo
> alt.pix.folk
> comp.sys.gibson
> comp.strings.five
> (curiously, comp.strings.four thrives)
> biz.banjo.jokes
> 
> It appears that some person posts a banjo joke, and the thread
> persists until nobody can stand it and all unsubscribe.
> 
> Dont let that happen here
> 
> Friends, do you know waht the appearance of a single banjo joke
> can do to your town?  (oops -- news.group)

One of my Celtic music addicted friends asked me if I knew
anybody that plays the bazooka.  Now there's an instrument.  I have an
uncle that plays one (he lives way out in the woods) and when he
strikes up his bazooka I've seen whole herds of rock stars flee in
terror.  When he lights into "The Wind That Shakes the Barley" the
barley shakes all the way down to Oconee, Georgia.

Now my dad, he used to play a radiator.  He would hit it with just
about anything he could get his hands on, and he tuned it with a
welding torch.  Well, that's folk music.  And so you see, there are a
lot of things that could do more disaster than a banjo--though
there sure are times when that's hard to believe.
-- 
-Ken <miner@kuhub.cc.ukans.edu> {Sometimes you have to look reality straight
 OPINIONS ARE MY OWN            {in the eye, and deny it. - G. Keillor