HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: kadie@herodotus.cs.uiuc.edu (Carl M. Kadie)
Subject: Re: "Computers graphic when it comes to porn"
Organization: University of Illinois, Dept. of Comp. Sci., Urbana, IL
Date: Sun, 30 Aug 1992 16:41:52 GMT

clewis@ferret.ocunix.on.ca (Chris Lewis) writes:

[...]
>I've often considered class-action libel or slander lawsuits a better
>approach than the laws we have, but we don't have that option because
>class-action suits in themselves aren't valid here.
[...]

The U.S. does have class action suits but does not have group libel
suits. So, I can say that all Republicans abuse their children with
fear of a lawsuit.

Compared to Britsh law, U.S. libel law imposes fewer constraints on
speech-that-hurts. Historically, this was a reaction to the seditious
libel (speech-that-hurts-the-state) trials before our independence.
The theory behind our libel laws now is that only when hurtful speech
cannot be countered with good speech should be it be actionable.

This means no such thing as seditious libel, it means that public
figures can only sue if the speech was false *and* malicious/reckless
(in contrast, A British public figure can sue for hurtful speech even
if the speech is true), and it means we have no such thing a group
libel.

- Carl
--
Carl Kadie -- kadie@cs.uiuc.edu -- University of Illinois at Urbana-Champaign
Xref: sparky news.admin:7365 misc.legal.computing:2042
From: kevin@cfctech.cfc.com (Kevin Darcy)
Newsgroups: news.admin,misc.legal.computing
Subject: Re: NetNews Contract? NOT!
Date: 1 Sep 92 01:03:18 GMT
Organization: Chrysler Financial Corp., Southfield, MI

In article <1992Aug29.060506.12868@anomaly.sbs.risc.net> kd1hz@anomaly.sbs.risc.net (Michael P. Deignan) writes:
>whs70@dancer.uucp (22501-sohl) writes:
>
>>From my point of view, there is a meeting of the minds as soon as a
>>poster posts. 
>
>The mere fact that there is disagreement proves there is no "meeting
>of the minds". 

By the same "reasoning", **ALL** contracts are null and void, if either party
challenges their validity. Neat. All I need to do is challenge my car payments.
*POOF*! They're gone. Dispute the validity of my apartment lease. *SHAZAM*! 
My rent's gone too.

Somehow, I don't think it works that way in the real world, Michael...

								- Kevin
From: ses@cmns-sun.think.com (Simon Edward Spero)
Newsgroups: news.admin
Subject: Oh my God! Mutulu's exploded!
Date: 23 Aug 92 21:42:52 GMT
Organization: What's your clearance, citizen?
NNTP-Posting-Host: cmns-sun.think.com


It looks like the delay loop in mutulud is being skipped- it's put out 81 
messages with a cross-post list including talk.politics.mideast within the
past hour. I think it resets if you "kill -1 `mutulud`", but I haven't got an
account on the relevant machine. 

Sigh. If only someone, somewhere were to write a properly debugged 
anti-crosspost canceler. Of course, that could never happen.

Simon
--
-----
Guest account at TMC 	|	Just Another  WAIS Hacker | DOD# 0612
Newsgroups: news.admin
From: jpr@jpradley.jpr.com (Jean-Pierre Radley)
Subject: Re: Novice needs help.
Organization: Unix in NYC
Date: Wed, 26 Aug 1992 18:33:55 GMT
Keywords: HELP!

In article <762@jahangir.UUCP> wayne@jahangir.UUCP (wayne) writes:
>
>     I am a novice at news so please bear with
>me. I tried to subscrips to a new news group 
>comp.os.ms-windows.  I updated the active file 
>for the group and ran checkgroups.
>
>     What is happening is that I am getting the
>news but it is being put into junk for whatever
>reason. Below is an excerpt fron the errlog file.
>
>
>Aug 25 05:32	<qtmyga_@rpi.edu>	inews: comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy: No valid newsgroups found, moved to junk
>Aug 25 05:33	<1992Aug24.164318.1@v8.vitro.com>	inews: comp.os.ms-windows.apps: No valid newsgroups found, moved to junk
>Aug 25 05:34	<1992Aug25.110047.1@cc.curtin.edu.au>	inews: comp.os.ms-windows.programmer.tools: No valid newsgroups found, moved to junk

You said you added comp.os.ms-windows. 
Error, that's not a valid newsgroup.

I infer from the errlog that you didn't add:

comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy
comp.os.ms-windows.announce
comp.os.ms-windows.apps
comp.os.ms-windows.misc
comp.os.ms-windows.programmer.misc
comp.os.ms-windows.programmer.tools
comp.os.ms-windows.programmer.win32
comp.os.ms-windows.setup
comp.os.ms-windows.programmer.misc, 

Each of those is a separate newsgroup.

-- 
Jean-Pierre Radley   Unix in NYC   jpr@jpr.com   jpradley!jpr   CIS: 72160,1341
Xref: sparky news.admin:7436 news.announce.newgroups:1079
From: ckd@eff.org (Christopher Davis)
Subject: Re: Why we need a "Copyright: " field (was: Re: NetNews/CD . . .)
Organization: Electronic Frontier Foundation Tech Central
	<1992Aug29.203834.24655@lth.se> <1992Aug31.011750.7340@wolves.uucp>
	<252@ulogic.UUCP>
Date: Wed, 2 Sep 1992 04:50:10 GMT

TWD> == news@wolves.uucp (The Wolfe of the Den) writes:
RH> == Richard M. Hartman <hartman@ulogic.UUCP> 

 RH> Permission is granted for someone to repost to these newsgroups,
 RH> which are inaccessible to my b-news setup:
 RH> comp.org.eff.talk,misc.legal.computing

Might want to get a more recent checkgroups or something; they're both
mainstream USENET now :)

 TWD> The *law* is that copyright exists on a work fixed in a tangible
 TWD> medium. period.

 RH> Has anyone yet resolved the question of whether USENET has been
 RH> established to be a "tangible medium"?

No, and it doesn't need to be.  Computer media *are* tangible media, and
you put it on a disk or three (thousand)...
--
Christopher Davis * ckd@eff.org * System Administrator, EFF * +1 617 864 0665
            ``Ed Gruberman, you fail to grasp Ti Kwan Leep.
            Approach me that you might see.'' -- The Master
Newsgroups: news.admin,misc.legal.computing
From: whs70@dancer.uucp (22501-sohl)
Subject: Re: NetNews Contract? NOT!
Organization: Bellcore, Livingston, NJ
Date: Mon, 31 Aug 92 01:22:34 GMT

In article <1992Aug29.060506.12868@anomaly.sbs.risc.net> kd1hz@anomaly.sbs.risc.net (Michael P. Deignan) writes:
>whs70@dancer.uucp (22501-sohl) writes:
>
>>From my point of view, there is a meeting of the minds as soon as a
>>poster posts. 
>
>The mere fact that there is disagreement proves there is no "meeting
>of the minds". 

That depends on how you determine if there is or isn't a meeting of
the minds.  I may totally disagree witrh the price of something, yet
if I still put down the requested price and buy the item, then my
actions are indicative of agreement, regardless of what I may think.

Likewise, the network offers a poster the opportunity to post and
provides that the post will be distributed far and wide.  The network
does not have any means to limit distribution, therefore it can only
offer to have posts distributed in an unlimited sense.  Any poster
should be aware of that.  The poster, by the act of posting, is 
indicating
acceptance of the network's distribution scheme, regardless of what
that poster may have stated in the post.

The consideration on the part of the network is, the distribution 
service, the consideration on the part of the poster is his/her
post.  The contract ends with the specific performance of the
distribution of the post through the far reaches of the network.


Standard Disclaimer- Any opinions, etc. are mine and NOT my employer's.
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Bill Sohl (K2UNK) BELLCORE (Bell Communications Research, Inc.)
Morristown, NJ             email via UUCP      bcr!dancer!whs70
201-829-2879 Weekdays      email via Internet  whs70@dancer.cc.bellcore.com
From: dave@jato.jpl.nasa.gov (Dave Hayes)
Newsgroups: news.admin
Subject: Re: Hasan B Mutlu
Date: 1 Sep 92 19:28:32 GMT
Reply-To: dave@jato.jpl.nasa.gov
Organization: Jet Propulsion Lab - Pasadena, CA

c23st@kocrsv01.delcoelect.com (Spiros Triantafyllopoulos) writes:

>Tell you what, Dave. A few days back you had offered to provide Mutlu
>with an account if he were denied one elsewhere. Why don't you do that
>so at least we have a REAL address to email to instead of a ficticious one?

A) Only if HE asks. 

B) Only if you can prove that Mutulu is indeed not a ficticuous character. 
(He sure sounds like one)
-- 
Dave Hayes - Network & Communications Engineering - JPL / NASA - Pasadena CA
dave@elxr.jpl.nasa.gov       dave@jato.jpl.nasa.gov         ...usc!elroy!dxh

                  "Better to be safe than to be sorry" 
   is a remark of value only when these are the actual alternatives.
Xref: sparky news.admin:7405 alt.fan.john-palmer:358
From: ses@cmns-sun.think.com (Simon Edward Spero)
Newsgroups: news.admin,news.admin.policy,alt.fan.john-palmer
Subject: Re: Hasan B Mutlu
Date: 2 Sep 92 14:32:11
Organization: What's your clearance, citizen?
	<1992Aug28.231336.4916@portal.hq.videocart.com>
	<SES.92Aug28233608@cmns-moon.think.com>
	<1992Sep1.183925.18429@tygra.Michigan.COM>
NNTP-Posting-Host: cmns-sun.think.com
In-reply-to: jp@tygra.Michigan.COM's message of Tue, 1 Sep 92 18:39:25 GMT

In article <1992Sep1.183925.18429@tygra.Michigan.COM> jp@tygra.Michigan.COM (John Palmer) writes:


   In article <SES.92Aug28233608@cmns-moon.think.com> ses@cmns-moon.think.com (Simon Edward Spero) writes:
   "

   "I have not run this script with a bullet in the chamber, and I don't intend
   "to do so.
   "

   I seem to recall someone else in the past who was accused of cancelling
   others postings (although it was not done intentionally, but due to 
   local postings getting out on the net...). 

   Lets see if you are all so quick to condemn ses@cmns-moon.think.com as you
   were to condemn this other fellow. Then we'll see if double standards
   exist....


  If you read what I actually wrote, you'll see that not only did I *not* 
send any cancel messages, I also said that I wasn't *going to*. I also 
said that I thought it would be wrong for me acting as an individual to 
issue such messages, and discussed ways in which the problem could be dealt 
with if it continued. What were you saying about quick to condemn?

Simon






--
-----
Guest account at TMC 	|	Just Another  WAIS Hacker | DOD# 0612
From: c23st@kocrsv01.delcoelect.com (Spiros Triantafyllopoulos)
Newsgroups: news.admin
Subject: Re: Hasan B Mutlu
Date: 28 Aug 92 13:42:47 GMT
Organization: Delco Electronics Corp.

In article <1992Aug28.130455.23625@portal.hq.videocart.com> kdenning@portal.hq.videocart.com (Karl Denninger) writes:
>Well, considering that it is supposed to be disabled, what about this?
>
>Trying 128.32.133.1 ...
>Connected to ucbvax.berkeley.edu.
>Escape character is '^]'.
>220 ucbvax.Berkeley.EDU Sendmail 5.63/1.43 ready at Fri, 28 Aug 92 06:00:04
>-0700
>vrfy post-usenet
>250 <"|/usr/lib/news/nrecnews">
> 
>Hmmm... looks rather active to me.
>
>I don't know if there is anything behind that filename, but they certainly
>didn't remove the alias.  I think I'll try it and see what happens.

They may have removed indiscriminant posting capabilities; for example,
aliases existed for just about all news groups BUT now they don't work;
I have received error messages posting in ways that USED TO work before.
(sigh :-))

We're investigating.

Spiros


-- 
Spiros Triantafyllopoulos                    c23st@kocrsv01.delcoelect.com
Software Technology, Delco Electronics       striantafyll@kosds1.gm.hac.com
GM Hughes Electronics, Kokomo, IN 46904      [A Different Kind of Disclaimer]
From: eager@eagercon.com (Michael J. Eager)
Newsgroups: news.admin
Subject: Re: Why we need a "Copyright: " field (was: Re: NetNews/CD  .  .  .)
Date: 28 Aug 92 03:31:02 GMT
Reply-To: eager@eagercon.com
Organization: Eager Consulting

In article 13625@fid.morgan.com, sethb@fid.morgan.com (Seth Breidbart) writes:
>In article <X7PNPB22w165w@mantis.co.uk> mathew <mathew@mantis.co.uk> writes:
>>sethb@fid.morgan.com (Seth Breidbart) writes:
>>> In article <wPXHPB6w165w@mantis.co.uk> mathew <mathew@mantis.co.uk> writes:
>>> >Similarly, I do not believe that submitting an article to Usenet implies any
>>> >consent to anything.  There's certainly no contract of any sort, no
>>> >agreement.  The newsgroups are filled with people who have no idea how large
>>> >Usenet is in geographical terms, so how can they have consented to having
>>> >their articles distributed to places they didn't even know existed?
>>> 
>>> "I put my article on the fax machine and hit the button labelled 'send
>>> to list #4'.  I expected Dave and Mike to get it, but I didn't expect
>>> John to get it also.  John did get it; now I want to sue him for
>>> violating my copyright by letting his fax machine make a copy of my
>>> article."
>>
>>Wrong analogy.  Change the last sentence to "...by republishing it in his
>>magazine".
>
>No, precisely the correct analogy.  "A copy of my article went to John
>(and was made by his fax machine).  I didn't even know that John had a
>fax machine; how can I have consented to having my article distributed
>on a machine I didn't even know existed?"

A fax machine is not a copying device.  The person with the fax machine
did not make a copy, since he was not is possession of an original.  
John made no copy, if anyone made any copy in your senario, you did.  In
fact, only you could, since you and you alone had the original.  Whether
by inattention, inadvertance or incompetance, you sent someone a copy which
you did not mean to.  

Simple point:  You cannot cause someone else to incure a liability by
your action alone.  

Let's get the electronics, phone and fax out of the picture.  What if 
you take an envelope with your article and place it in my mail box?  Even
if you thought that it was my neighbors mailbox?  Can you then sue me for 
having your article without your permission?  I hope that you will not be 
so foolish to say that you can.  


---
Michael J. Eager		Michael.Eager@eagercon.com
Eager Consulting		(415) 325-8077 
1960 Park Boulevard, Palo Alto, CA 94306-1141
Newsgroups: news.admin,misc.legal.computing
From: forda@gtephx.UUCP (Andrew Ford @ AGCS, Phoenix, Arizona)
Subject: Re: NetNews Contract? NOT!
Organization: gte
Distribution: na
Date: Fri, 28 Aug 1992 21:15:04 GMT

In article <1992Aug27.153714.18985@m.cs.uiuc.edu>, kadie@herodotus.cs.uiuc.edu (Carl M. Kadie) writes:
> 
> Another condition for a legally-enforceable contract is that there be
> a meeting of minds as to the terms. This debate shows that there is
> no such understanding.
> 
Please cite some reference -- this sounds like a misquote to me.

If you are meaning that it must be the intention of each party to 
conduct the transaction, then I'd agree.  
-- 
"25 States allow anyone to buy a gun, strap it on, and walk down the street with
no permit of any kind: some say it's crazy.  However, 4 out of 5 US murders are 
committed in the other half of the country: so who is crazy?"   -  Andrew Ford
gtephx!forda@enuucp.eas.asu.edu  OR  !uunet!samsung!romed!enuucp!gtephx!forda
From: sysjmk@idun.albany.edu (Joe Kane)
Newsgroups: news.admin
Subject: limited reading of a news group
Date: 31 Aug 92 20:27:17 GMT
Distribution: na
Organization: State University of New York at Albany
Originator: sysjmk@idun.albany.edu



  We currently have a Usenet news server (which is on the internet) and

several clients that read news from that server via nntp. I would like to

limit the reading of a particular news group to a particular client

(and of course prevent other clients from reading that news group).

Is there a way I can do this ? 

   Please respond by e-mail.

                                       thanks
                                       joe kane

-- 
Joseph Kane				internet:  sysjmk@csc.albany.edu
UNIX System Manager			bitnet: sysjmk@albnyvms
State Univ of NY at Albany		(518) 442-3711
Computing Services Center CS-0	 
Newsgroups: news.admin,misc.legal.computing
From: kd1hz@anomaly.sbs.risc.net (Michael P. Deignan)
Subject: Re: NetNews Contract? NOT!
Organization: The Rhode Island Internet Systems Cooperative Network
Date: Sat, 29 Aug 1992 06:05:06 GMT

whs70@dancer.uucp (22501-sohl) writes:

>From my point of view, there is a meeting of the minds as soon as a
>poster posts. 

The mere fact that there is disagreement proves there is no "meeting
of the minds". 

End of story.

MD
-- 
--  Michael P. Deignan                      / Sex is hereditary. If your 
--  Domain: mpd@anomaly.sbs.com            /  parents never had it, chances 
--    UUCP: ...!uunet!rayssd!anomaly!mpd  /   are you won't either...
-- Telebit: +1 401 455 0347              /
From: kdenning@portal.hq.videocart.com (Karl Denninger)
Subject: Re: Berkeley anonymous poster test
Summary: Ugh
Organization: VideOcart Inc.
Date: Fri, 28 Aug 1992 13:28:29 GMT

In article <m0mO603-0009LFC@portal.hq.videocart.com> kdenning@hq.videocart.com (Karl Denninger) writes:
>
>Testing 1.2.3.4.5.6.
>
>Does the UCBVAX anonymous posting service still work?
>
>--
>Karl Denninger 		Inet:  kdenning@hq.videocart.com
>VideOcart Inc.		Voice: (312) 987-5022

Oh well.  It was a nice dream that this was disabled... I guess not.

The above was sent through the "mail <> news" gateway at ucbvax....

--
Karl Denninger 		Inet:  kdenning@hq.videocart.com
VideOcart Inc.		Voice: (312) 987-5022
From: rokosz@uservx.plk.af.mil
Newsgroups: news.admin
Subject: thanks for help with c-news
Date: 27 Aug 92 13:35:17 GMT
Organization: Phillips Laboratory - Kirtland AFB


     On August 13th, I posted a message entitled "problems getting c-news
started" to news.admin and news.sysadmin.  I received responses from seven
people, but can only reach three of them through e-mail:

	Chuck Royer (croyer@atg.amex-trs.com)
	Peter da Silva (peter@taronga.com)
	Tom Limoncelli (tal@warren.mentorg.com)
	Cameron Spitzer (camerons@nad.3com.com)

	Doug Rabson (dfr%ioc.co.uk@ibmpcug.co.uk) ** can reach **
	Stephen J. Roznowski (sjr@afterlife.ncsc.mil) ** can reach **
	Spike White (swhite@afseo.eglin.af.mil) ** can reach **

     Thanks for the response, but one of our consultants strongly suggested
that I try installing InterNetNews instead of c-news, so I'll be installing it.
If anyone is aware of any concerns I should have installing INN on SunOS,
please let me know.

						Randy Rokosz
						rokosz@plk.af.mil
						Phillips Lab - Kirtland
						(505) 846-6108
Newsgroups: news.admin
From: kdenning@portal.hq.videocart.com (Karl Denninger)
Subject: Re: Hasan B Mutlu
Summary: UCBVAX and anonymous mailed posting
Organization: VideOcart Inc.
Date: Fri, 28 Aug 1992 13:04:55 GMT

In article <1992Aug28.042245.18758@usenet.ins.cwru.edu> by403@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Spiros Triantafyllopoulos) writes:
>
>In article <1992Aug27.034946.23143@tygra.Michigan.COM>,
>root@tygra.Michigan.COM (Charlie Root) writes:
>>Our site fed anadolu, the site from which Hasan Mutlu posts. As of this
>>time, because we are in a temporary location without adequate phone lines
>>the feed to anadolu and our other downstream sites are suspended. I don't
>>know what route he is using to get out his messages to the net, but it 
>>is not through our site. His use of the name "anadolu.MICHIGAN.COM" is a
>>temporary misnomer, although it isn't permanently terminated.
>
>The 'temporary misnomer' had been posting (forging) articles thru the
>post-usenet@ucbvax.berkeley.edu for several weeks, and kept posting
>till (probably) the powers that be at Berkeley pulled the plug,
>probably yesterday. History will show whether this will work.

Well, considering that it is supposed to be disabled, what about this?

Trying 128.32.133.1 ...
Connected to ucbvax.berkeley.edu.
Escape character is '^]'.
220 ucbvax.Berkeley.EDU Sendmail 5.63/1.43 ready at Fri, 28 Aug 92 06:00:04
-0700
vrfy post-usenet
250 <"|/usr/lib/news/nrecnews">
 
Hmmm... looks rather active to me.

I don't know if there is anything behind that filename, but they certainly
didn't remove the alias.  I think I'll try it and see what happens.

--
Karl Denninger 		Inet:  kdenning@hq.videocart.com
VideOcart Inc.		Voice: (312) 987-5022

Newsgroups: news.admin,misc.legal.computing
From: jaapjl@tab00.larc.nasa.gov (J Lee Jaap)
Subject: Re: NetNews Contract? NOT!
Organization: AS&M Inc
	<1992Sep02.011137.5510@anomaly.sbs.risc.net>
	<1992Sep2.133029.9396@porthos.cc.bellcore.com>
Date: Wed, 2 Sep 1992 22:06:39 GMT

In article <1992Sep2.133029.9396@porthos.cc.bellcore.com> whs70@dancer.uucp (22501-sohl) writes:
   There are thousands of newspaper dispensing machines around the 
   country.  They offer you a copy of the  "XYZ newspaper" for $x.
   You put in $x and you take out one newspaper.  That was a contract
   between you and the newspaper publisher/distributer.  If you take
   out more than 2 copies of the newspaper, you have violated the
er..., 2 or more ;-)

I tried to email you, but uunet doesn't seem to know dancer.

Good examples.
--
J Lee Jaap <J.L.Jaap@LaRC.NASA.Gov> +1 804/864-2148
employed by, not speaking for, AS&M Inc, at NASA LaRC, Hampton VA 23681-0001
Newsgroups: news.admin
From: tal@Warren.MENTORG.COM (Tom Limoncelli)
Subject: Re: in.coming on a different partition?
Organization: Mentor Graphics -- IC Group
Date: Tue, 25 Aug 1992 18:57:35 GMT

With INN, is there much benefit to splitting your system
onto separate physical disks?

Tom
-- 
Tom Limoncelli -- tal@warren.mentorg.com (work) -- tal@plts.uucp (play)
"Oh! I thought it was one of those useless demos of everything that
    a GUI builder could do." -Anonymous person watching demo of
         Solaris 2.0's graphical tool for managing NIS+
Xref: sparky news.admin:7384 misc.legal.computing:2055
From: gsh7w@fermi.clas.Virginia.EDU (Greg Hennessy)
Newsgroups: news.admin,misc.legal.computing
Subject: Re: NetNews Contract? NOT!
Date: 1 Sep 92 22:50:31 GMT
Organization: University of Virginia

In article <1992Sep1.204533.13221@gtephx.UUCP> forda@gtephx.UUCP
(Andrew Ford @ AGCS, Phoenix, Arizona) writes: 
#Then please explain how a person could ever sue for breech of contract?

"Your honor, the defendant signed this contract stating that he would
pay me 10,000 in return for my automobile, but has not paid me
although he took possesion of the car."

--
-Greg Hennessy, University of Virginia
 USPS Mail:     Astronomy Department, Charlottesville, VA 22903-2475 USA
 Internet:      gsh7w@virginia.edu  
 UUCP:		...!uunet!virginia!gsh7w
From: john@jho.com (John Ho)
Newsgroups: news.admin
Subject: USENET for hundreds of users
Summary: USENET for hundreds of users
Keywords: usent
Date: 31 Aug 92 02:56:32 GMT
Organization: Software Programming, Inc., Dallas, Texas USA

Can someone recommend me a hardware configuration that can handle 
as many as 300 users simultaneously do news reading?  All readers will
be telneting into this box.  Please advice.

-- 
John Ho from Dallas, Texas USA. (john@jho.com)           - No news is bad news.
Xref: sparky news.admin:7192 alt.comp.acad-freedom.talk:2657 alt.censorship:7033
From: saul_sy@nutmeg.hnrc.tufts.edu (Saul Tannenbaum)
Newsgroups: news.admin,alt.comp.acad-freedom.talk,alt.censorship
Subject: Re: Limiting religious speech
Date: 21 Aug 92 00:38:41 GMT
Organization: USDA HNRC at Tufts University

In article <1992Aug20.143700.1@acad3.alaska.edu>, fsars@acad3.alaska.edu (Allen R Sparks) writes:
> In article <UeYz6mS00XsEA6g0Vc@andrew.cmu.edu>, dh4j+@andrew.cmu.edu (David O Hunt) writes:
>> Same thing with prayer in schools - nobody is saying you can't pray.  
>> What they're saying is that prayer cannot be organized and sanctioned
>> (purposefully or by default).
> 
> Hmm... doesn't freedom of speech include freedom of assembly,
> organized or not?  Those are the grounds that they still allow the
> Elk's Club not to admit women. === Al Sparks

Yes. And if those at a graduation or at schoolwish to assemble themselves 
and pray, let them.

The issue at hand is prayer, organized by school *authorities* payed for
by your and my tax dollar, and the inherent coerciveness of that situation.

Get it?

	- Saul