HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: jacko@cbnewsl.cb.att.com (Jacko)
Subject: Re: Pai Gow Poker
Organization: AT&T
Date: Fri, 17 Apr 1992 02:22:09 GMT
Keywords: lovely

In article <1992Apr16.215603.24347@midway.uchicago.edu> kolt@midway.uchicago.edu writes:
>In article <1992Apr16.211208.15016@cbnewsl.cb.att.com> jacko@cbnewsl.cb.att.com (Jacko) writes:
>>The house edge on Pai Gow Poker is around 2% +/- 0.5%.
>I'm glad you think so. I asked for math, as I recall...

Don't hold your breath...nobody here really cares about Pai Gow.

>Well, that was my point: I don't know the effect of the vig on house advantage.
>I'd appreciate if someone could show me some math, so that I could understand
>this a little better.

Sometimes math just confuses things.
Face it:  they wouldn't take a commission on wins if the rules of the game
inherently gave the house an advantage of over 2%. (let alone 5%)

>OK, so what this says is that your action at PGP is less "active" in the eyes 
>of the casino. Makes sense, since many hands do not result in a decision.

Pushes are irrelevant.  The casino advantage is what they win divided by
the total action, including bets that were pushed.  I think maybe you're
just misapplying the jargon.

Anyway, the problem is that the rate of play in Pai Gow Poker is so much 
slower than craps or blackjack.  If the game were 1/3 as fast with 3x the
house edge, they would comp you the same.  In reality, it is 1/3 as fast
with a comparable "hold" to BJ and craps.  Again, 1.5%.  Believe me, the
casinos have a pretty good idea what the table games hold.

>It does not deal with the question: what is the casino advantage at PGP?

Who cares.  Let's forget about it.

Jacko.
Newsgroups: rec.gambling
From: fiete@symcom.math.uiuc.edu (Stephen Fiete)
Subject: Re: Betting on election offered?
Organization: Math Dept., University of Illinois at Urbana/Champaign
Date: Sun, 12 Apr 1992 18:33:32 GMT

In article <13950026@hpdmd48.boi.hp.com> sheneman@hpdmd48.boi.hp.com (Jerry Sheneman) writes:
>Does anyone know if Vegas takes bets for U.S. Presidential
>elections?  Like giving odds on who will win?  If so, and they
>would accept bets early, I would think you could get pretty good
>odds for Perot and probably win.   Anyone know if they do this?
>
>
>-Jerry S.


I saw on the news one night a few weeks ago the odds being offerred in
London.  They said that betting on the presidential election is illegal
in the U.S.  At the time, Perot was not given odds.  I think that Bush
was 6:11.

Steve
From: kolt@quads.uchicago.edu (Matt K/Gonzo)
Newsgroups: rec.gambling
Subject: Re: Atlantic City
Date: 16 Apr 92 14:18:43 GMT
Reply-To: kolt@midway.uchicago.edu
Organization: University of Chicago Computing Organizations

In article <199204160621.AA17752@tuna.wang.com> ANDY.POLSELLI@OFFICE.WANG.COM ("Andy Polselli") writes:
>
>I will be making a trip to Atlantic City in May with about 40 other people ,
>most of whom have never gambled before , and I could use some info on which
>casinos have $5 minimum tables on weekends .
This has been posted recently, I think it's the Marina and the trop.
>As for myself , I will be playing in the $25 minimum arena . Any suggestions
>on which casinos are favored in this range ?
If you're not counting, then I'd play at Trump Plaza. I think it's a neat place
to play. They play six decks instead of 8 there. But they cut off 45% of the 
shoe. So if you just want to play at the best rules (they have surrender) i'd
play there. But I dunno. There's been some talk about resplitting too. 
Probly someone else will post, that was just my two silver chips.
Matt


-- 
Matt Koltnow   B0 t-- w- c+ g+ k s+ e r- p     "That's the way
Email: kolt@midway.uchicago.edu                 Lady Luck dances.
Ntalk: kolt@ellis.uchicago.edu  (or @quads)     Roll the Bones." --N. Peart
Boycott the Imperial Palace.           10x odds on 25c craps at Union Plaza.
From: bhoughto@hopi.intel.com (Blair P. Houghton)
Newsgroups: rec.gambling
Subject: Re: what happened to the inside stuff on the dogs?
Date: 14 Apr 92 21:53:37 GMT
Organization: Intel Corp, Chandler, AZ

In article <1992Apr11.004320.27220@morrow.stanford.edu> GC.SUL@forsythe.stanford.edu (Sullivan) writes:
>A couple weeks ago someone posted that he worked at a dog track[...]
>I'd be interested in hearing the 'inside' scoop on anything.  Did
>I miss it?

He emailed.  The poop is:

1.  Weight doesn't matter.

2.  Neither does pre-race spunkiness.

3.  Racing dogs make great pets, but they're energetic,
so keep them outside or they'll mug your house.

				--Blair
				  "Hey!  Knock over that sofa
				   just one more time, buster..."
From: jacob@ocf.berkeley.edu (Jacob Jin)
Newsgroups: rec.gambling
Subject: Clarion
Date: 17 Apr 92 07:15:59 GMT
Organization: U. C. Berkeley Open Computing Facility
 
 I hope this post works.
NNTP-Posting-Host: lightning.berkeley.edu


 I noticed someone mentioned something about Clarion in Reno. Are they still
 offering Vegas rules, and are there any other Reno/Tahoe casinos doing
 the same?

 Interesting technique(using PGP to make pitbosses think you're insane) but
 unfortunately oftentimes the PGP pit and BJ pit are not one and the same.
 One technique I like to try is to come to the table with chips and silver
 dollars in a bucket. They see the bucket and think you are 1) insane and
 2) stupid beyond belief. I've gotten a lot of condescending comments by
 doing that, which is fine while I enjoy a decent spread with no heat since
 pitbosses love slot players who wander into the blackjack area.
From: Dave.Mortimer@bird.com (Dave Mortimer)
Newsgroups: rec.gambling
Subject: LOST IN L.A.
Date: 16 Apr 92 03:53:00 GMT

does anyone know how to enter the stars studio?

 * Origin: (1:107/323@FidoNet)
From: escozzlab@berkeley.edu (Eugene Shekhtman)
Newsgroups: rec.gambling
Subject: RE: SPORTS BETTING
Date: 6 Apr 92 12:09:54 GMT
Article-I.D.: agate.rpf2iINN1dk
     <1992Apr6.022728.4552@ux1.cso.uiuc.edu> <rpd9iINN1bf@agate.berkeley.edu>
     <rpdc1INN1bi@agate.berkeley.edu>
Organization: U. C. Berkeley
NNTP-Posting-Host: gpb1mac16.berkeley.edu
X-UserAgent: Nuntius v1.0



Matthew Wilding:
>I guess no rec.gambler is going to respond to the original point I
>made at the beginning of this thread: How few "informed" betters in
>the sports book market need there be to make it impossible to beat the
>sports book's vig?

OK, I?ll respond.  First of all, what do you mean by "nformed"?  Barring
game-fixing, no mortal can be really "informed", right?  The "informed"
bettor knows as much about the way that his (or her) information is going
to affect the score of a FUTURE game as the regression analysis guy. 
Secondly, if you think that the betting line is set by those who are
really "well-informed", just look at how poorly the line correlates with
the actual game scores: they can't even predict outright game winners! 
Thirdly, I'm willing to bet (ha!) that the vast majority of money is
wagered by hunch players and home team supporters rather than by the
"informed".  The bookies MUST set or adjust the line according to the
amount of money bet, not to who is betting it, or else they'd be taking
tremendous risks!  In my firmly held opinion the "informed" bettors do
not diminish your chances of winning significantly, if at all.

Here's some more food for thought about the "informed".  A friend of mine
runs one of those 800-number sports betting consulting services.  He is
doing great: every day Federal Express brings him packets and packets of
cash from his clients.  However, every day he has to make over 200 phone
calls to solicit new clients!  I asked him about it, and he said "in this
business, you just can't hope to keep a client for very long".  He, of
all the people, should definitely have the key information, right?  Guess
again: none of the "inside information" that he can obtain is any good
for consistent handicapping!  The other day I saw him sitting in his
office trying to even out the numbers of people to whom he gave OPPOSITE
recommendations!!!  I don't think that he is any worse (or any better,
for that matter) at sports handicapping than all the other
"well-informed" bettors.

Changing subjects: I myself can do pretty well against the line in
regular season and post-season NFL games (no proven record, of
course...), but I'm very reluctant to bet my hard-earned money on a
hunch.  Is it possible to come up with a winning system? I certainly hope
so, because I'm about to spend some time trying.
                                                              Eugene.
p. s.:  Sorry about those first two unsuccesful attempts to post this. 
It's my first time.
p. p. s.: No E-mail, please.
From: stank@cbnewsl.cb.att.com (Stan Krieger)
Newsgroups: rec.gambling
Subject: Cheapskates in AC (was BJ:  High stakes in Atlantic City)
Date: 11 Apr 92 02:54:29 GMT
Organization: Summit NJ

>Everyone always says where the $1 or $2 tables are but nobody mentions
>the $1000 or $10,000 tables.  Isn't anybody else curious?  Please,
>when you make a trip report, include information about table maximums
>when you give the table minimums.

Am I the only one on this net who knows where there are nickel (as
in 5 cents) video poker games in A/C (Resorts and Trump's Castle)?
Does anyone know of these, or any else in my hometown?
-- 
Stan Krieger                     All opinions, advice, or suggestions, even
AT&T UNIX System Laboratories    if related to my employment, are my own.
Summit, NJ
smk@usl.com
From: Eugene Shekhtman <escozzlab@berkeley.edu>
Newsgroups: rec.gambling
Subject: RE: SPORTS BETTING
Date: 6 Apr 1992 11:39:30 GMT
Organization: U. C. Berkeley
Distribution: world
     <1992Apr6.022728.4552@ux1.cso.uiuc.edu>
NNTP-Posting-Host: gpb1mac16.berkeley.edu
X-UserAgent: Nuntius v1.0
From: jacko@cbnewsl.cb.att.com (Jacko)
Newsgroups: rec.gambling
Subject: Re: Info wanted on LV Apr 16-20
Date: 15 Apr 92 15:07:45 GMT
Organization: AT&T

In article <1992Apr13.155111.35045@uvmark.uucp> irwin@uvmark.uucp (Frank Irwin) writes:
>In article <1992Apr11.140057.2120@stat.appstate.edu> grs05086@stat.appstate.edu writes:
>>
>>	I enjoy reading trip reports and if I play enough to make one, I will
>>post my adventures.  Since someone of you ( Jacko, ect. ) are regulars at
>>LV, I would be interested in stop and bye and saying hello if it is 
>>convient.

Sorry, guy.  Won't be out that weekend.  Giving the monkey a rest.

>A regular?  Jacko?  Hell, that boy *lives* there.  He just dials in to NJ
>to read news.

Watch it Frank.  You know damn well I'm from Texas.  :-)'    

>>What is the consenus about the rooms at the Aladdin - Deal or No Deal.
>
>I haven't stayed there in awhile, but I don't remember having any bad
>experiences at the Aladdin.  (It's the toilets in the Stardust that
>you have to watch out for.  :-)

Dignity prevents me from responding to Frank's last point. :-)

Is TJARC still out there?  He stayed at the Aladdin last year for the Derby.

Jacko.
From: jacobs@cs.utah.edu (Steven R Jacobs)
Subject: Re: SPORTS BETTING
In-reply-to: escozzlab@berkeley.edu's message of 6 Apr 92 12:09:54 GMT
Organization: University of Utah CS Dept
	<rpd9iINN1bf@agate.berkeley.edu> <rpdc1INN1bi@agate.berkeley.edu>
	<rpf2iINN1dk@agate.berkeley.edu>
Date: 6 Apr 92 09:03:10

In article <rpf2iINN1dk@agate.berkeley.edu> escozzlab@berkeley.edu (Eugene Shekhtman) writes:
>
> Here's some more food for thought about the "informed".  A friend of mine
> runs one of those 800-number sports betting consulting services.  He is
> doing great: every day Federal Express brings him packets and packets of
> cash from his clients.  However, every day he has to make over 200 phone
> calls to solicit new clients!  I asked him about it, and he said "in this
> business, you just can't hope to keep a client for very long".  He, of
> all the people, should definitely have the key information, right?  Guess
> again: none of the "inside information" that he can obtain is any good
> for consistent handicapping!  The other day I saw him sitting in his
> office trying to even out the numbers of people to whom he gave OPPOSITE
> recommendations!!!

In other words, he is running an illegal scam.  Tell half the people one
thing, half the opposite, and you will suck in about half of your clients.
The ones who are lucky enough to win a few in a row think he is wonderful,
and recommend him to all of their friends.  It is no wonder that he has
to constantly recruit new suckers.  It is also no wonder that he is getting
a lot of cash this way.

> I don't think that he is any worse (or any better, for that matter) at
> sports handicapping than all the other "well-informed" bettors.

This scam has nothing to do with being well informed.  It only has to do
with sucking in gullible players who don't realize what is really going on.
--
Steve Jacobs  ({bellcore,hplabs,uunet}!utah-cs!jacobs, jacobs@cs.utah.edu)
"Limit congressmen to two terms.  One in office.  One in jail."
From: twc@svcs1.UUCP (Ted Chan)
Newsgroups: rec.gambling
Subject: Re: "Diamonds are Forever"
Date: 17 Apr 92 05:11:23 GMT
Organization: Silicon Valley Computer Society, Sunnyvale, CA

From article <deS=02Lycc1w00@amdahl.uts.amdahl.com>, by jsp@uts.amdahl.com (James Preston):
> 
> I watched "Diamonds are Forever" again last night.  Has anyone else noticed
> that the scene at the craps table is totally bogus?  Yeah, I know, you
> were probably too busy watching Plenty O'Toole, the original Hot Babe(tm).
> Still, everything is so laughably wrong that I can't believe that they
> didn't do it on purpose, but I wonder why.
 
[stuff deleted]

> Bond, who is on her RIGHT!  Finally, there is that spiel that Bond makes
> to impress Plenty with his knowledge of the game.  I suppose it all makes
> sense, if you stretch a little, but it's certainly not what an experienced
> craps player would do, and it most certainly could not have won him so

Umm, wouldn't an experienced craps player (with some common sense knowledge
of stats) come to the same conclusion as the computer in the movie
_War Games_ - namely that there is no point in playing this game?  (Assume
here for the sake of argument that the only goal here is making money and
further assume that the die aren't loaded...)

--twc@legal.uucp
From: jsp@uts.amdahl.com (James Preston)
Newsgroups: rec.gambling
Subject: Re: Bay Area (California) cardroom experience
Date: 9 Apr 92 17:37:05 GMT
Reply-To: jsp@pls.amdahl.com
Organization: Amdahl Corporation, Sunnyvale CA

slandrum@ntg.com (Stephen H. Landrum) writes:

}The time payment is not live, and at the 2-4 and 3-6 tables
}the time payment is equal to the big blind.  At the no-limit tables,
}time is collected on the half-hour (I am not sure of the rate), and the
}button has the first blind and all of the blinds are live.

I hate to ask dumb questions, but if one doesn't ask, one won't learn,
right?  Could some kind soul explain this term "live" to me?  I've
heard it used in reference to blinds, and now in reference to the time
payment.  But somehow, I can't quite get down what it means.

--James Preston

Newsgroups: rec.gambling
From: ron@osf.org (Ron Birnbaum)
Subject: Re: More on Sports Betting
Organization: Open Software Foundation
Date: Fri, 17 Apr 1992 18:33:20 GMT

In article <!wzjwc=@lynx.unm.edu>, jawebb@leo.unm.edu (James Webb) writes:
|> 
|> 
|> 	With all of this talk on the sports betting question, I'd like to
|> add my own.
|> 
|> 	Let's say Joe Blow lives in Vegas and knows he can pick 9 games
|> in a row, has $2000, and can do math.
|> 
|> 	He figures $2000^9 = $1,024,000 and goes to bet the games.
|> 
|> 	Not taking into account the 10% vig on the bets, can he do
|> this by placing 9 consecutive bets?

  Sure. No problem.

|> 
|> 	I've asked different people about this and they say different things.
|> 
|> Is there a limit to the amount he can bet? 

  Casinos have per bet limits, however these limits are usually much higher than
  $2500 per bet in the larger casinos. Sometimes particular games have lower
  maximums. 

|> 
|> Can he be barred if he wins 5 or 6 in a row and the casino doesn't want him
|> taking their money anymore?

  No.

|> 
|> If there is a limit (say $2500 per bet) can he bet $2500 20 times?

  Sure. He just needs enough cash to put the money up for each bet.


|> 
|> If this is the case, will the line be refigured after every bet?

  Yep - but it's doubtful that $2500 will have much effect, unless he's one
  of the first betters.

|> 
|> Where would he go to place these bets? Cesears? Harrahs?

  There is no casino called Cesears! ;-) Oh - Caesers! They are big enough to
  handle many $2500 bets without any problem. Harrahs? I don't know about them.


|> Two of the games are being played at the same time. He wants to parlay them.
|> How does this work? What are the odds for a three game parlay? How bout four?

  Odds depend on which casino you are in. they change. parly odds are usually
  15/4 for a 2 team parlay, I seem to remember - but I'm not sure. Anyway, some
  casinos are a bit different but all are close. I don't remember the other odds.



|> 
|> I saw Bob Stupak bet $1,000,000 on the Cincinati-San Fransico Superbowl. Did
|> the line jump 3 or 4 points? If this was bet on a regular season game would
|> the line jump more, less, or about the same as a post season game? Can you
|> bet that much on a regular season game? How much is bet normally on a regular
|> season game?

  Sure. But not many places will accept $1,000,000 bets!

|> 
|> If he wanted to pick an underdog, could he better his odds by making a 
|> moneyline bet hoping for the upset? How does that work?

  If the money line is posted, he could do it. But if the odds were +110 -150, he
  would win $150 for evern $100 he bet. For the favorite, he'd bet $110 to win
  $100. The above line would never actually be found, but that's the technique.

|> 
|> 
|> 	Anyways, I hope that someone can answer this vast multitude of
|> questions.

  Hope I helped!

-Ron
Newsgroups: rec.gambling
From: jacko@cbnewsl.cb.att.com (Jacko)
Subject: Frontier news
Organization: AT&T
Distribution: na
Date: Tue, 7 Apr 1992 14:24:04 GMT

The Frontier is cutting back on the good rules.  The 2:1 payoff for suited 
Ace-Jack naturals has been eliminated.  It has been replaced with a newer,
cheesier bonus:  all blackjacks ($5 bet or higher) earn a bonus "token" which
can be saved up and used for free rooms (10 tokens = free room Sun-Thur, 15
on the weekend).  This is a pretty good deal for a typical nickel bettor who
would never get a room comp, especially on Saturday night, and a lousy deal
for green action players who would get comped there anyway.  I'm wondering if
I can possibly sell these stupid tokens to anybody who needs a room in Vegas.
Trouble is, I've only got 5 of them so far.  Stay tuned.

It's possible that DAS is gone, but I never had the opportunity to try it 
and didn't feel like attracting any additional attention by asking about it.
They are now using the phrse "double down on any first two cards" on their
marquee and table placards.  I think previously they used the term "double
down any two cards".  Hmmm.  Guess I should have asked.

To answer those who wonder about cheating, and whether anybody has gotten
any money out of that place:  I played with about 6 different dealers the
other night, and I felt I was getting a fair game from all of them.  
(Except for when the asshole next to me cranks up his bet from 2 green 
chips to 10 with a TC of +10, and the dealer "automatically" shuffled.
Player-induced preferential shuffling.  What a concept.)  Anyway,  I 
managed to get out about a grand in less than 2 hours.  The pit boss 
looked a little concerned, but I was showing them a lot of mercy, so they
weren't nasty or sourpusses.   One nice thing is that the dealers appreciate
even small tokes. (red chips).

Jacko.
License plate on Porsche 911 seen parked in front of Caesars:  "XS KASH"
From: dan@xanadu.com (Dan Hite--"Net Gamer" )
Newsgroups: rec.gambling
Subject: Re: Bay Area (California) cardroom experience
Keywords: poker, law
Date: 14 Apr 92 04:48:41 GMT
Distribution: na
Organization: The American Information Exchange

In article <JACOBS.92Apr9141813@cells.cs.utah.edu> jacobs@cs.utah.edu (Steven R Jacobs) writes:
>In article <DANIEL.92Apr9081850@quilty.Stanford.EDU> daniel@quilty.Stanford.EDU (Daniel Weise) writes:
>> In article <1992Apr8.221843.17292@ntg.com> slandrum@ntg.com (Stephen H. Landrum) writes:
>>
>>    ...
>>    two tables going, a 3-6 Hold'Em, and a dealer's choice.  They advertise
>>    a 7-stud game (which is the reason that we went, one of my friends was
>>    looking for a 7-stud game), and claim that they usually have one going
>>    on Friday, but not this time.
>>
>> Somebody please correct me if I'm wrong, but I thought that California
>> law only allowed card games where all of player's cards are dealt face
>> down.  Therefore there is no stud in California card rooms.
>
>Things change.  Stud is now legal.  "Horse Stud" is still illegal, but
>nobody cares because nobody can remember what it is.
>--
>Steve Jacobs  ({bellcore,hplabs,uunet}!utah-cs!jacobs, jacobs@cs.utah.edu)
>"Limit congressmen to two terms.  One in office.  One in jail."

Things change.  Stud-horse poker is now legal, but nobody cares because
nobody can remember what it is.  (California Penal Code section 330 was
amended in 1991 to clarify the law particularly in light of some court case
[Tibbetts v. Van de Kamp (1990), 222 Cal. App 3d 389] and one of the things
they cleaned up was to remove the reference to stud-horse poker)

Also section 332 is interesting--seems to say that cheating at poker etc.:
"shall be punished as in case of larceny of property of like value."

Unfortunately the state doesn't "legalize" home poker--its just not illegal
according to CA code.  Thus you have to beware of the local county and city
caprious ordinances, which may or may not be enforced (I had some amusing
conversations with local DA's and police about this).
Newsgroups: rec.gambling