From: stuart@vax.oxford.ac.uk
Newsgroups: rec.sport.soccer
Subject: Re: Whining from Leeds fans
Date: 7 Oct 92 09:03:34 GMT
Organization: Oxford University VAX 6620

In article <01GPMQ2K4SJM987E60@ccmail.sunysb.edu>, ABEGLEY@ccmail.sunysb.edu (Anthony M. Begley) writes:
> 
>                State University of New York at Stony Brook
>                        Stony Brook, NY 11794-2275
> 
>                                             Anthony M. Begley
>                                             Materials Science
>                                             516 632-8516
>                                             06-Oct-1992 01:45pm EDT
> FROM:  ABEGLEY
> TO:    Remote Addressee                     ( _rec-sport-soccer@cs.utexas.edu )
> 
> SUBJECT: Whining from Leeds fans                                      
> 
> Dear All,
> As a completely unbiased Aston Villa fan I would like to add my thought to this 
> growing saga over the Stuttgart-Leeds farce.
> 
> 1) Someone wrote in and said that the standard default score set by EUFA 
> (presumably?) was 3-0. Thus, (i may be wrong here) if this is the case why is 
> everyone complaining about EUFA decision ?

Because this usually comes into play when such things as crowd trouble occur.
Not when one team deliberately cheats.

> Stuttgart defaulted the game by (in)advertantly cheating.

I think, anyone with any common sense must know that Stuttgart advertantly
cheated. I put a situation to you. If Leeds are losing in the 3rd match and
put on an extra player (i.e. 12) can we then have another match for fielding an
illegible player? No clearly not. Leeds would be thrown out and rightly so.

> Stuttgart defaults the game.
> leeds win 3-0
> Therefore, we have to have a replay.

Not quite true. As someone pointed out if at the end of the second leg the
score was 3-3 (i.e. 3-0 to stuttgart from the first leg, 3-0 to Leeds from the
second 90 minutes) it should have continued for another 30 mins and then to
penalties!

> Therefore, we either toss a coin to see who plays at ome, or,
> Therefore we play on a neutral ground, i.e. Barcelona (presumably equidistant 
> from both cities).

The error was by Stuttgart at Elland Road. That is where the default occurred.
Equidistant mileage is neither here nor there. Leeds fans will have to either 
fly there or get a cross-channel ferry, all to be sorted by friday. The German
fans can get there by train.

> 
> 2) The majority of people seem to think Leeds have been hard done by.
> This may be the case, admittedly, however I feel (naive it may be)
> that football is still a game with some sportmanship and some sense of fair 
> play.

Er....when did you last go to a football match? "some sense of fair play"
hardly relates to UEFA's decision.

> 
> With tis in mind -- theonly sensible thing to do is to let the better football 
> team go through to the next round.
> Surely if Leeds are going to go on to win the Cup they will be good enough to 
> beat Stuttgart (or vice-versa). Why is everyone whinging against EUFA ?
> The decision was the only one in the spirit of the game (never mind that this 
> spirit in now irrevocably erroded!).

Apart from yourself I haven't heard anyone else use such glorious terminology
to defend UEFA. It's true Leeds have beaten stuttgart twice in the last three
games so on paper they should go through. But that's still avoiding the whole
issue of the fact that Stuttgart broke the rules and have got away with it,
undoubtedly because of the pressure of German TV moguls on UEFA.

> 
> 3) Of course, there are some problems created by the decision but these have to 
> be accepted as part of the deal.
> 
> The main problem is the availabliity of each sides respective stars on 
> international duty (i.e. presumably this just affects Leeds).

As it turns out with the match on Friday it won't effect Leeds as all the
internationals have been released. If it had been on saturday then there would
have been uproar. The Germans won the World Cup so therefore don't have to
worry about qualifiers.

> 
> 4) What will happen:
> 
> Leed will bottle it and lose to the more professional but less talented German 
> team.
> The net will be inundated by Leeds (English) fans complaining that it was a 
> travesty of justice (Leeds will probably be beaten by a last minute, wrongly 
> awarded penalty.)
> 
> So, the moral of this missive --- if Leeds lose, dont whine, because they 
> wouldnt deserve to play in Europe anyway.

Wouldn't or don't? They are Champions of the English League remember so they
clearly do deserve to be there. Regardless of that it is a travesty of justice.
I have yet to hear any professional footballer, manager, or commentator (either
in England or elsewhere) defend the UEFA decision, apart from the Stuttgart
coach who commented that he was pleased with the decision (not surprisingly
really).

> 
> Tony B.
> 
> PS I hope Leeds win as a Rangers-Leeds game would be of more interest to me.
> PPS Any Villa fans out there going to write match reports just for little old me 
> ? Please ? The glory days are returning to Villa park!

Be real.

However on a lighter note a joke in the papers today was: What is the
difference between Stuttgart VFB and the Bank of England? Stuttgart has got
more foreign reserves.

Stuart