HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: unglenie@ford.ecn.purdue.edu (Robert J Unglenieks)
Subject: Re: Senna to Penske?
Organization: Purdue University Engineering Computer Network
Date: Tue, 15 Dec 1992 00:09:00 GMT

>Robert J Unglenieks writes:
>>Well, I can see senna wanting to come to IndyCars just so Mansell doesn't
>>take the crown as greatest driver by winning championships in 2 int'l
>>series in consecutive years.........

Rob Walls writes:
>At the risk of starting an IndyCar vs. F1 flamefest, I have to take
>exception to that observation.  Unless you were being sarcastic, which I
>sorta doubt, it is EXTREMELY arrogant to think that Ayrton Senna is the
>only person capable of beating Nigel in IndyCars.  

Why doubt the sarcasm?  My life revolves around it.... that's why
I'm really intrigued that you took my post in that way....but it seems people
have been doing that lately.  IMHO I think Mansell is going to be taught
a quick lesson in humility by the time Indy rolls around (probably more like
2 or 3 lessons by then).  I said the above to defend my statement that senna
would come to the Indy cars to spite Mansell.

>There is more than
>a handful of competitive drivers, including other former F1 pilots,
>capable of giving the World Champ a run for his money.  And since Nigel
>has yet to prove himself in the IndyCar arena, IndyCar veterans will
>probably teach _him_ a thing or two.

I can see Nige finishing fourth or fifth in the points.  My inclination
right now says 1) Al Jr  2) Luyendyk  3)  Fittipaldi  4) Rahal  5) Nige
My heart tells me the Flying Dutchman will win it all, but my brain says
no.  I'm also a Ford man (check the .sig).

>Disclaimer:  I do not profess any preference to F1 or IndyCars.  I
>equally enjoy both types of racing for what they offer, and I don't
>have any particular hatred toward Nigel, Senna, Prost or the Andrettis.

Disclaimer:  I do profess a preference of IndyCars over F1.  I do, however,
enjoy both types of racing for what they offer, and I don't have any particular
hatred toward Nigel or the Andrettis, I'm a Prost fan.... but then there's
that senna guy............

Rob U
--
-       Rob Unglenieks             REAL race cars DON'T wear BOWTIES       -
-  "It is the foreign element that commits our crimes.   There is no       -
-   native criminal class except Congress."  [Samuel Langhorne Clemens]    -
-  (Don't look at me, I DIDN'T vote for Clinton.  Will Engineer For Food)  -
From: danjones@pyramid.COM (Dan Jones)
Newsgroups: rec.autos.sport
Subject: Re: Williams F1
Date: 17 Dec 1992 21:50:04 GMT
Organization: Pyramid Technology Corporation, Mountain View, California
Distribution: usa
NNTP-Posting-Host: xploit.eng.pyramid.com

Mark Jackson writes:

>In article 15947@bmerh85.bnr.ca, myhui@bnr.ca (Michael Hui) writes:
>> Could it be that Nigel Mansell studied, graduated, and worked as a
>> mechanical engineer while pursueing his racing career on the side in
>> his younger days? Think of it! Is this a world's first? An engineer
>> wins the F1 driver's championship!     |->)
>
>Not quite.  Giuseppe Farina won the first WDC in 1950, and he had a
>doctorate in engineering.

I think I heard somewhere that Alan Kulwicki is the first WC Champ with
a college degree.  I know AK is a college boy, but is he really the first?
And how many IndyCar champs have degrees, Bobby Rahal has a degree from 
Denison, he was a couple years ahead of John Berton who used to do the 
F1 reports for r.a.s.

Dan Jones 
Newsgroups: rec.autos.sport
From: ayrjola@hut.fi (Ari Yrjl)
Subject: Re: Williams F1
Organization: Helsinki University of Technology, Finland
	<1glmhaINNhbv@s-crim1.dl.ac.uk>
	<16DEC199209104464@lims01.lerc.nasa.gov>
Date: 17 Dec 92 13:46:59 GMT

In article <16DEC199209104464@lims01.lerc.nasa.gov> scdorcy@lims01.lerc.nasa.gov (JAMES DORCEY) writes:

> While the great debate of whether or not Hill is faster than Prost makes 
> for interesting reading, it may be a moot point if Hill is the #2 driver 
> for Williams.  The question of equal equipment aside, it is a distinct 

It's already clear that Prost will be on the #2 Williams
 - and Damon Hill will drive the #0 car.

Sorry, couldn't resist :-)


--
                     / /  most stupid
   ayrjola@hut.fi   / /   dinosaurs
___________________/ /    ought to starve
--------------------'     
Newsgroups: rec.autos.sport
From: motta@leland.Stanford.EDU (Nazare Motta)
Subject: F1/INDY BLA,BLA,BLA...
Organization: DSG, Stanford University, CA 94305, USA
Date: Fri, 18 Dec 92 22:54:57 GMT

Hey, I have been reading all the posts about F1 been really international 
and Indy been a national unimportant(sp?) championship. Let me give my
woman view in this male dominated group!
I grew up watching F1 (I'm from Brazil). While our soccer team was loosing 
every tournement it got into our boys were going wild in the F1.
During this last 20 years we had 7 or 8 championship in the F1 (Two times
with Fitipaldi, three times with Piquet and 2 or 3 times with Sena? ) and 
a few times the Brazilians got the second, third of fourth place. I'm mean
our boys were at the top!
Then Fitipaldi moved to the U.S. and became the first foreigner to win the
500 miles of Indianapolis and I started watching it. 
In my opinion, in my personal view, I think that Indy is slightly boring 
specially when they are running in those oval circuits!!! But that's MY OPINION
It doesn't mean that it's easier than F1! Ask Piquet in his rookie "debut" in 
the Indy 500... 
Also the F1 has more charm. Specially in Monaco and Rio... (the English GP had
its charm until the populace decided to invade the circuit).
But, now the F1 with only one team building a car to win started to get boring
too! Besides there is too much bla,bla,bla and manipulations...
The F1 "stars" have acted like the "queens" in the Brazilian carnival. (Note
Bene: I have nothing against queens, besides they have done their jobs way
way better then the F1 starts, which is to make the public keep their interest
in what they do).
Right now the Indy (is that the right name for this championship or just for 
the 500 miles of Indianapolis?) with Fitipaldi, Andretti, Mansel and maybe...
maybe...Sena, may be more interesting to watch than the F1 with Prost. Besides,
Prost is, in MY OPINION, the only champion who can make the F1 as boring as a 
Indy race in an oval circuit. Maybe with all the great pilots in the Indy (the
ones that were there before and the ones that are coming the Indy will be more
fun!). 
That's true that most of the handsome pilots will be in the F1... oh well we
can have everything!
Newsgroups: rec.autos.sport
From: cjp53999@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (Cory James Padfield)
Subject: Re: French GP struck off!
Organization: University of Illinois at Urbana
Date: Tue, 15 Dec 1992 17:50:45 GMT

winalski@adserv.enet.dec.com (Paul S. Winalski) writes:


>In article <Bz9Cry.4C4@news.cso.uiuc.edu>,
>cjp53999@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (Cory James Padfield) writes:
>|>
>|>>F1 teams that are based in France and are sponsored by tobacco companies
>|>>(what is the current status of Ligier?) are in trouble.
>|>
>|>   Isn't this the most amazing part of it all???  Ligier, a team based
>|>in France, so it is co-owned by the Socialistic French government, is
>|>also sponsored by a partly government-owned cigarette company. Why did
>|>the French decide to attack a British company, when they had their own
>|>goddamnmed company within the government itself???? I'll tell you why.
>|>The French government is so STUPID it escapes words. Oh hell, I forgot,
>|>the other French team, Larrousse, is sponsored by Japanese cigs. But 
>|>who cares, since France is obviously willing to protect its own damned
>|>iterests. I better quit while I still have some composure.

>It wasn't the French government that filed the court suit.  It was a private
>non-smoking activist group.  They went after Williams because (1) as the
>championship team, it gets them more publicity, and (2) Williams has deeper
>pockets (and non-French-government-supported pockets, at that) than Ligier
>or Larrousse.

>What astounds me is that the French court didn't simply refuse to hear the
>case, as it involves an event taking place outside France and not involving
>French citizens or companies.  Were this sort of suit to be brought in a US
>court, it would be thrown out immediately--the court would tell the plaintiff
>to file in Australian court.  Now, if the anti-smoking lobbyists went after
>the television company that broadcast the race in France, or maybe FOCA and FISA,
>that might be a valid complaint.  Williams have no control over the broadcast
>of GP races in France.

>--PSW

  Thanks for the clarification. I wondered what the hell was going on. Still,
my opinion is the same. I am baffled as to why the French are going after 
a British team when their own damn government co-owns plenty of cigarette
manufacturers, advertising companies that make cig ads, TV companies that
show the ads (or races)...... Actually, maybe I'm not baffled that they
are doing it, but because it actually is taken seriously. How could I think
the French were stupid about this when they've proven to be stupid in]
court about other stuff, such as Le Mans, etc....  oh, it is painful to 
just think about it. i suppose I am done, and I shall leave by saying
thank you again to Paul.......

Cory

Newsgroups: rec.autos.sport
From: charly@irisa.fr (Charles Queguiner)
Subject: Re: French GP report - Autoweek 12/14
Reply-To: charly@irisa.fr
Organization: IRISA, Campus de Beaulieu, 35042 Rennes Cedex, FRANCE
Date: Wed, 16 Dec 92 16:45:17 GMT

in reply to Jim Sanchez,

I can say that alcohol advertising is also forbidden in any sport event in France.
The anti-smoke organisations were leaded by scientists and doctors, not especially
by all the french government.
The problem of F1 sponsorship is a side effect of the anti-smoking law.
I am not sure to see next F1 season and i am sad of it.

 But i think honnestly that it would be better if a FISA rule would have said :
 any racing car team is allowed to receive only a part < to 50% of their budget
from firms not in the automobile products. This could make all F1 budget nearer
and could give good races with cars nearer to compete.

	Charles Queguiner.
==============================================================================
| Charles QUEGUINER                  |  Phone:  (33) 99 84 73 68             |
| IRISA - IFSIC                      |  Fax:    (33) 99 38 38 32             |
| Campus Universitaire de Beaulieu   |  Telex:  UNIRISA 950 473F             |
| 35042 RENNES CEDEX                 |  E-mail: charly@irisa.fr              |
| FRANCE                             |                                       |
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
| BMW 2002 tii (1973)   2002 (1974)  |  Porsche 944 (85/2)                   |
==============================================================================
| Les 24 Heures du Mans              |  The 24 hours of Le Mans              |
| La plus grande course du monde     |  The greatest race in the world       |
==============================================================================

                      __ 
 \----\            __/  |
 |  2 | __    /---/prost|-------__  __ 
 \----//  \ _/-----------------___^/  \ 
      | () |:|    Williams     | _| () |\__
       \__/ ---------------------/ \__/ \-->
***********************************************************************
From: mbahh@s-crim1.dl.ac.uk (A.H. Henry)
Newsgroups: rec.autos.sport
Subject: Re: Williams F1
Date: 15 Dec 1992 22:34:18 -0000
Organization: Daresbury Lab., Warrington, U.K.
NNTP-Posting-Host: seqnet.dl.ac.uk

In article <lisfs8INNh6@exodus.Eng.Sun.COM> chrisp@regenmeister.Sun.COM (Chris Prael) writes:
>>In article <lisfs8INNh6@exodus.Eng.Sun.COM> chrisp@regenmeister.Sun.COM (Chris Prael) writes:

>>>Damon Hill is the front runner for the world championship in 93.  I
>>>think that Prost will have to struggle to be runner-up.

Damon Hill reckons he's driven more than 20,000 km in testing, so
I presume he can get himself comfortable in the car.  However, what
of the chances of Prost being able to tweak the aerodynamics to 
take advantage of his shorter stature ?  Will Hill be, if you'll
excuse the pun, Bergered halfway through the season  ?  

In 1990 and 1991 Senna was able to tuck into the McLaren cockpit much 
lower than Berger, which reduced the drag from his helmet.  Admittedly
Senna used the same trick on Prost in 1988 and 1989, so the difference
might not be significant.

>Alain Prost has great talent, a powerful intelligence, superb
>experience, and a great will to win.  (He is also a great in whiner as 
>Mansell and Senna.)  But, unless he can close and reverse that gap that 
>now separates him from Hill,  Damon must be the favorite for next years 
>championship.

I'm going to pop down to a betting shop tomorrow to see what odds they're
giving on Damon Hill.  Still I don't think I'd put him as favourite for the 
championship when he's only started two Grand Prix.

-- 
			Andrew  Henry
Sempre  Gilles					bspahh@gdr.bath.ac.uk
Newsgroups: rec.autos.sport
From: taylor@sun.soe.clarkson.edu (Ross Taylor,Peyt312,6652,2655436)
Subject: Re: RaceTime Magazine
Organization: Clarkson University
Date: Fri, 18 Dec 1992 15:08:08 GMT

From article <BzGL1o.CFK@umassd.edu>, by rgolen@UMASSD.EDU:

> Poland is not high on my list of places to visit.
> 
> Ric Golen
> 
 OK, at the risk of taking this thread very far away from ras charter but
here goes anyway.

Ric, have you ever been to Poland ?  If you had I don't think you
would make such a statement.  Its a wonderful country that has suffered
through a corrupt government system and dreadful economy.  The people
are great and are especially nice to Americans (at least they were when
I was there).  I was there for a week in 1988 and left from Warsaw
the day before the big strike that brought the whole system down for good.
The government knew something would hapen as there were two policemen with
the obligatory guns on every street corner.  Not a day to be changing
US dollars illegally!  Anyway, I for one would love to pay a return
visit someday.

Ross Taylor
From: bspahh@gdr.bath.ac.uk (Andrew Henry)
Newsgroups: rec.autos.sport
Subject: F1: Modifications to Murray Walker
Date: 10 Dec 92 19:30:45 GMT
Organization: School of Biological Sciences, University of Bath, UK

BBC F1 commentator Murray Walker recently was in hospital for a hip 
replacement.  This meant he was unable to make the Autosport Awards, 
where he usually acts as compere, so he left a filmed message ...

  "I've been aware of a reduction in my personal performance in the
   last year.  I decided I needed a major redesign to enable me to
   be competitive in 1993.  I've had a new universal joint fitted
   to the near-side transmission, a major reduction in ride-height
   should enable me to get under even more forbidden pitlane doors
   and a major reduction in weight should lead to an increased
   words-to-breath ratio.  Make the most of the quiet times ahead,
   because I'm going to be back next year."

Best wishes to Murray for a trouble-free shakedown test, and a 
speedy acclimatisation to the pace at the front of the pack.


			Andrew  Henry
Sempre  Gilles					bspahh@gdr.bath.ac.uk
Organization: Penn State University
Date: Tue, 15 Dec 1992 16:01:16 EST
From: <BWF2@psuvm.psu.edu>
Newsgroups: rec.autos.sport
Subject: Re: F1: Hill gets Williams drive!
 <1992Dec15.183951.2766@hasler.ascom.ch>

In article <1992Dec15.183951.2766@hasler.ascom.ch>,
kevinh@hslrswi.hasler.ascom.ch (kevinh) says:

>In article <BzB8nx.4ty@ncube.com>, bob@ncube.com (Bob Kehoe) writes:
>|> Maybe for my Xmas present this damn machine will start
>|> working again......
>|>
>|> .....just curious about something.  Seems to me that the
>|> Damon Hill announcement (at least here) has garnered more
>|> discussion than the Mears' retirement announced last week.


>Mears? Mears? Who's he?? Ohh - a NASCAR driver, that explains
>it. C'mon, this is an international forum, not some tin pot
>old dinosaur racecar club :-).

    BBBzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzztttt. WRONG! Try Indycar driver.
    NASCAR will always beat a parade! :-)
 Brian ' I never did like marching bands ' France


>|> -bob-

>kevinh@hasler.ascom.ch
From: mbahh@s-crim1.dl.ac.uk (A.H. Henry)
Newsgroups: rec.autos.sport
Subject: F1: Rover and Jordan was Re: Various threads.
Date: 18 Dec 92 15:24:35 GMT
Organization: Daresbury Lab., Warrington, U.K.
NNTP-Posting-Host: seqnet.dl.ac.uk

In article <1992Dec18.081247.9240@neptune.inf.ethz.ch> marti@nugget.inf.ethz.ch (Robert Marti) writes:
>In article <1992Dec17.134756.6061@gdr.bath.ac.uk>, bspahh@gdr.bath.ac.uk
>(Andrew Henry) writes:
>|> The Motoring News reckons the Hart engine might soon become a Rover.
>|> Apparently some Rover stickers appeared on a Jordan during one of
>|> the recent test sessions.
>
>Interesting.  Is Rover still a British Leyland company?  (Are Jaguar?)
>Or are one or more of these entities owned by the Japanese?  And wasn't
>the 1.5 litre Coventry Climax F1 engine a product of British Leyland?

The metamorphosis from BMC -> British Leyland -> Leyland -> Austin Rover 
-> Rover Group  was more complicated than you want to know !

Triumph, Riley, Wolsley and Morris no longer exist as car marques.  
I think they might still use the Austin name for minis and the like.  
Jaguar is a separate company that was bought out by Ford a few years 
ago.  I'm not sure about Land Rover - they might be a separate company.
They still use Rover switchgear, door handles and the like.

They still "collaborate" with Honda on some projects.  I think Honda has 
a 25 or 30 % stake in Rover.  Some people think that it would be better
if Honda bought out the whole company.

I've never heard of the Coventry Climax engine being one of their 
engines, but I'm no expert on that era.  It was designed as a portable 
fire pump.

Rover has actively supported club motorsport in the years since the
Metro 6R4 group B rally car with several one make saloon car racing
series.  However, this would be their first foray into single seater 
racing for a while.

			Andrew  Henry
Sempre  Gilles					bspahh@gdr.bath.ac.uk
From: PHT007%SIRIUS.UKC.AC.UK@ib.rl.ac.uk
Newsgroups: rec.autos.sport
Subject: Re: French GP Struck Off!
Date: 12 Dec 1992 04:21:15 -0600
Organization: UTexas Mail-to-News Gateway
NNTP-Posting-Host: cs.utexas.edu

Well just a little update on my earlier posting, basically the reason.

Well as you all have read A french court have fined Williams for Tobacco
advertising, etc. etc.   Well because the whole things is getting out if hand,
FISA feel that Tobacco sponsered teams may well be stopped and fined, I
suppose, while travelling in France. As far as I know it has nothing to do with
last years debacle with the lorry dispute (But I wouldn't blame them if it did)
nor politics (Although thinking about it, there would be reduced morale from
both Prost and Renault without there own GP, so a slackening of pace...allowing
Benetton to win next year....yay..all sounds like good stuff to me.)

Anyway,  I also heard through a friend that when it was featured on radio they
said that Australia was going to be threatned because of similar laws!! This I
find unbeleavable, take it as you will. Personally I don't see the problem as
in both Germany and Britain Tobacco ads are banned...the teams just blank out
the names, while keeping the colours and thus the ads (?). With 3 GP's like
that next year (and possibly a fourth) I Tobacco ads may not last much longer!

Dirk Gently.
From: mbahh@s-crim1.dl.ac.uk (A.H. Henry)
Newsgroups: rec.autos.sport
Subject: F3000 and Cig and Alcohol Ads
Date: 17 Dec 1992 23:15:47 -0000
Organization: Daresbury Lab., Warrington, U.K.
NNTP-Posting-Host: seqnet.dl.ac.uk

In article <1992Dec17.174530.25861@hasler.ascom.ch> kevinh@hasler.ascom.ch writes:
>
>|> Taking the argument to its extreme level, all
>|> activities which pose a risk to the individual
>|> and a potential cost to society ought to be
>|> prohibited. History suggests that such totalitarian
>|> impositions do not serve the best interest of a
>|> flourishing human spirit.
>
>Fine, but there's one big difference between smoking and the
>other "harmful" activities you list - the effects on people NOT
>wishing to partake in smoking. Smoking is the only one of
>the above activities which actively harms people in the vicinity
>nevermind the unpleasant effects of merely being in the same room
>as a smoker! If you think that the desire to not die from
>somebody elses vice is "totalitarian" than you have some pretty
>warped ideas!

<begin rant>

I  *hate*  the smell of cigarette smoke.  If I'm in a pub,
with someone smoking nearby, I sometimes start breathing like
a freestyle swimmer, to avoid taking a breath of those
burning leaves.  I don't mind the smell of pipe tobacco so
much but cigarettes and cigars are just repulsive.  If it gets 
too much, I can talk to other people, or just go somewhere else.

However,  I am quite happy to watch motorsport paid for by
smokers.  It gives me the same sort of feeling you get when you
break open a KitKat to find its all chocolate and no wafer.
They're paying for it, and I'm enjoying it !

I don't think people should be banned from advertising because
their product is "bad" for you.  Adverts saying "X is bad for 
you" are fine so long as they have some sort of evidence to
back this up.  Adverts saying "X is good for you" should also
have some sort of evidence to back them up.  

< end rant> 

FISA have decided, to cancel the 1994 F3000 series.  It will be
replaced with a series which will be cheaper, with regulations to be
published in March '93.  March and Reynard aren't very happy about
this, as it won't help the second-hand value of their recently 
announced 1993 F3000 cars.  Given the proposed reduction in costs, 
this may result in a control chassis or a production-based engine.


			Andrew  Henry
Sempre  Gilles					bspahh@gdr.bath.ac.uk
Newsgroups: rec.autos.sport
From: shaman@cix.compulink.co.uk (Leo Smith)
Subject: Re: Various threads.
Reply-To: shaman@cix.compulink.co.uk
Date: Mon, 14 Dec 1992 08:42:00 +0000

... on getting a golf engine to self destruct at 14,400...

        don't see why not, if its running no-load on a dyno, and the
        valves continue to operate in some sort of fashion.

...on F1 engines..

        I was talking to en employee of Piper Camshafts - who work
        with Brian Hart. The current whisper is that the Hart is
        producing around 770HP - better than the Yamaha already...he
        also reckoned  that McLaren will get the Lamborghini engine..



Newsgroups: rec.autos.sport