HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: joe@astro.as.utexas.edu (Joe Wang)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.asian.american
Subject: Re: Perceptions, Realities, Perceptions
Date: 1 Sep 92 02:00:53 GMT
Distribution: soc
Organization: McDonald Observatory, University of Texas @ Austin

In article <1992Aug31.133623.3835@nynexst.com> clare@nynexst.com (Clare Chu) writes:
>  Nope, because you need to go study more about race relations in
>  this country and not just the microcosm of your particular experiences.

I'm reminded of the Groucho Marx line....

  "Who are you going to trust, me or your own eyes?"

>  I see your scheme of things.  You're going to join the dominant
>  class and then in the kindness of your heart, open it up to
>  other less fortunate classes.  Well bless your dear little heart, Joe.

Huh???  I don't get your point.  If one happens to find oneself in the
"power elite," one can try to open up the structure, or one can use
the power to keep oppressing other people.  

>  Joe, you joined not from a
>  position of strength where you can go and make such demands,
>  but a position of weakness where you begged your way in. 

I didn't beg anything.  All I said was, this is who I am, and this is
what I believe, you letting me in, because I'll still be standing here
if you don't.  The answer was "yeah sure, why not?"

>  Joe, when are you going to go from Chinese to Asian American?

When am I going from a proud Chinese to a victimized Asian American?

No thanks.  I prefer being Chinese. 

I am who I am, and I don't let "white America" tell me who I am, and I
don't let you tell me who I am.  (Maybe I'll listen to my mother.)

>  And if all Chinese people had your attitudes, then we'd all be
>  Japanese by now.  Just lie back, let the Japanese beat us up,
>  rape us, kill us, because we'll just laugh at them from our
>  graves, still proud to be a dead Chinese. 

What exactly is your point?  That Americans are acting like Japanese
in World War II?  If 1992-America is different than 1942-Manchuria,
then perhaps different tactics are in order.  I hope you're not
suggesting guerilla warfare tactics as a solution for race relations.

>  Good for you.  So you think we should all do as you do since it
>  worked for you.

Hey.....  I'm just pointing out something that worked for me.  Your
mileage may vary.
From: shaw@au-bon-pain.lcs.mit.edu (Andy Shaw)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.asian.american
Subject: Re: Asian/Asian American Conflicts
Date: 4 Sep 92 00:25:26 GMT
	<1992Sep1.153221.12938@u.washington.edu>
	<1992Sep3.053658.12353@mumbo.apple.com>
Organization: MIT Lab for Computer Science, Cambridge, Mass.

In article <1992Sep3.053658.12353@mumbo.apple.com> tse@loonybin.apple.com (Gary Tse) writes:
   In article <1992Sep1.153221.12938@u.washington.edu> gwangung@milton.u.washington.edu (Just another theatre geek.....) writes:
   >In article <1992Sep1.072030.10695@mumbo.apple.com> tse@loonybin.apple.com (Gary Tse) writes:
   >>I couldn't help but think about that kid on my drive back to work though.
   >>And my initial reaction of disdain and dismissal turned to pity.  You
   >>see, that young man is emphatically non-Chinese.
   >> He is American and
   >>absolutely nothing else.  Why does he care so about the Asian American
   >>cause?
   >
   >	Because he is Asian American.

   Gee, I must admit I am a bit fuzzy on this Asian American bit.  Just
   what exactly makes one an Asian American?

   Is it genetics?  But surely that can't be.  Since Asian != Asian American, 
   and in some cases even Asian + American != Asian American.  So genes must 
   be a necessary but insufficient condition.

Geez Gary, I thought this was pretty clear -- does an African-American have
to speak some African language before you consider him an African-American?
What exactly are you trying to say?

   Is it some sort of shared Asian cultural heritage?  

No ... why should it be?  Asian-American does not == Asian, just as
American does not == White.  Is this a particularly difficult concept to
understand?

   But I thought I 
   expressed doubt if the young man in question partook at all of anything
   culturally Asian.  gwangung is so sure pronouncing that man an Asian
   American that culture can't have anything to do with it.  

How about Asian-American culture?

-Andy
Newsgroups: soc.culture.asian.american
From: tmartin@nyx.cs.du.edu (Thomas Martin)
Subject: Reading List Needed
Organization: University of Denver, Dept. of Math & Comp. Sci.
Distribution: na
Date: Sun, 23 Aug 92 20:13:20 GMT

Greetings all. I am doing some research for a panel discussion to be held in 
Ocotober and the topic will be "Being Chinese American in a MultiCultural
Society."

Please help me compile a reading list of books and articles so that I can 
present views and opinions that are contemporary. (Much of what I already have
is 5 to 10 years old).

Thanks in advance.

Newsgroups: soc.culture.asian.american
From: clare@nynexst.com (Clare Chu)
Subject: Re: Degrees of racism (was Re: Caucasians don't understand)
Organization: Nynex Science and Technology
Distribution: na
Date: Wed, 2 Sep 92 12:26:39 GMT

In article <1992Sep2.002852.28920@news.acns.nwu.edu> dowdy@tochtli.biochem.nwu.edu (Dowdy Jackson) writes:

>What I want is to have MY people be respected for being who we are not
>what you want me to be so that you'll be more comfortable.
>

  Why wouldn't anyone agree with you on that?   Substitute any
  group or race for 'MY people' and any group or race for 'you'.
  I think it is a pretty universal desire, to be respected.
  I only wonder why there are people who want to deny any group
  that kind of respect.  But given the last 500 years of American
  history I shouldn't be surprised.

Newsgroups: soc.culture.asian.american
From: achin@math.tamu.edu (Andrew Chin)
Subject: AAs in prison
Originator: achin@math
Organization: Texas A&M University, Dept of Mathematics
Date: Thu, 27 Aug 1992 21:03:51 GMT

Does anyone know anything about the experiences of AAs
in US prisons?  It occurred to me that given the racial
ignorance and intolerance of America's underbelly and
the racially charged atmosphere of prison life, an AA
wouldn't last very long.  In particular, due to the
"effeminate" perception of AA men, he'd probably be
sodomized pretty quick.  There's a case that sentencing
an AA to a federal penitentiary for any length of time
would constitute cruel and unusual punishment.

Just another paranoid musing from
-- 
Andrew Chin    Dept. of Math.    Texas A&M U.    College Station, TX 77843
achin@math.tamu.edu   Probably not TAMU's exact opinions.   (409) 845-1924
                * Fighting racism is not a special interest *
Newsgroups: soc.culture.asian.american
From: ajh@Xenon.Stanford.EDU (Alan Hu)
Subject: Re: What is tacky today
Organization: Computer Science Department, Stanford University.
Date: Sat, 29 Aug 1992 23:29:02 GMT

In article <BtrEIt.HuA@rice.edu> kerryg@stat.rice.edu (Kerry Go) writes:
>In article <1992Aug20.213633.19387@CSD-NewsHost.Stanford.EDU> ajh@Xenon.Stanford.EDU (Alan Hu) writes:
>>In article <16udi9INNqj6@agate.berkeley.edu> jwd@briones.ced.berkeley.edu (John Wilbrand Dahlgren) writes:
>>>    "Miya Dodd, 15, student, Tulsa: (answers)
>>>     Having so many Orientals in the continental U.S.A. 
>>>     Coming to S.F. I expected to see surfers and here are all 
>>>     these Orientals. I'm part Japanese. I'm used to being the
>>>     one who is different! Seeing so many in the U.S.A. is
>>>     getting on my nerves."
>>>
>>	[Questions about exoticness of Asian Americans in Midwest deleted.]
>>>
>>Wow.  Can you say "Racial Anorexia"?  I knew you could.
>>(Aside:  In some ways B.D. Wong's "racial anorexia" is
>>a vulgarism, like "workaholic".  It has nicer ring than
>>"ethinc self-hatred" though.)
>>(Aside 2:  From the name and response, one might guess that
>>Miya is the product of a WM/AF marriage (WM=white male, are you
>>happy Ron?).  Do you suppose this particular family raised her
>>with a strong sense of (multi-)ethnic identity?)
>>(Aside 3:  When she turns 18, do you think it'd be more likely
>>that she'd go to Cal, discover the true self-esteem and self-identity
>>that has been denied her by a racist society, and become a raving
>>Asian-American activist, or will she marry into the Aryan Nation to
>>avoid having to deal with "all these Orientals," who are so tacky?)
>
>Give her a break!  She's *15*.  I don't think most 15-year-olds have the
>kind of perspective to think about these things.

You know, Kerry, that's been your usual response to my posts:
"Give so-and-so a break!"  You are misunderstanding my point, but
I'm not always particularly clear, so let me try to explain.

Most of the time, when I appear to be harshing on a situation, I'm
NOT harshing on the victim.  I'm pondering, "What sociological situation
caused such a suprising behavior?"  Thus, my questions are "Why does
this 15-year-old harbor such deep-seated resentment of people of her own
race?" or "Why are eating disorders so prevalent among teenaged girls
in the US?" or "Why is Kerry such an amazingly compassionate person?",
not "What a screwed up person!"

						--Alan Hu
Newsgroups: soc.culture.asian.american
From: gwu@nujoizey.tcs.com (George Wu)
Subject: Re: Perceptions, Realities, Perceptions
Organization: Teknekron Communications Systems Inc.
Date: Fri, 28 Aug 1992 00:31:51 GMT

In article <1992Aug26.050450.18705@leland.Stanford.EDU>, underdog@leland.Stanford.EDU (Dwight Joe) writes:
> 
> Afterwards, depending on how cold my room is, I'll grab one or two
> flags of China and ignite them to help start a fire in my fire place.

     I use printouts of your scaa posts.  Much more flames and lots of
hot air.  :-)

							George


----
George J Wu, Software Engineer         | gwu@tcs.com or uunet!tcs!gwu
Teknekron Communications Systems, Inc. | (510) 649-3700
2121 Allston Way, Berkeley, CA, 94704  | Never be the first to believe . . .
From: joe@astro.as.utexas.edu (Joe Wang)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.asian.american
Subject: Re: Perceptions, Realities, Perceptions
Date: 1 Sep 92 02:06:38 GMT
Distribution: soc
Organization: McDonald Observatory, University of Texas @ Austin

In article <1992Aug31.142228.4926@nynexst.com> clare@nynexst.com (Clare Chu) writes:
>  When are you going to become Asian American?  

How's "never" for an answer?  Got a problem with that? 

>  As long as you're Chinese, they'll tell you to go back to China.  
>  If you don't like it here, go back to China.  

Again, what's your point?
Organization: University of Illinois at Chicago
Date: Tuesday, 25 Aug 1992 15:40:35 CDT
From: <U58402@uicvm.uic.edu>
Newsgroups: soc.culture.asian.american
Subject: Michael Woo, L.A. mayoral candidate

I hope this won't be a bounced post, but the original one didn't seem
to go through.
=========================================================================

Last weekend I went to a fundraiser for Michael Woo, who is the first
Chinese-American to run for mayor in Los Angeles. He's making a swing
through cities throughout the US, raising money from the Chinese-American
community. Chicago was his first stop.

Not being well versed in L.A. politics, I was wondering if anyone who
is from that area could help me out.

1. Is Bradley going to run again?
2. What is the ethnic breakdown of L.A. now? I was told that the
African-American community was not as large as the Asian-American
community in L.A. This surprised me.
3. Is L.A. predominantly Democratic or Republican?
4. Who else could make a run for mayor besides Bradley?

Michael Woo came across as being quite personable and energetic. The
organizers of this fundraiser made a small tactical error, though: they
held this fundraiser for Woo, who is a Democrat, in Westmont, a town in
DuPage County, which is VERY Republican. (The head of the Democratic
Party of DuPage showed up. I figured he was the head because he WAS the
Democratic Party of DuPage.) Woo did raise more money than he
expected to, though.

Wilbur Pan
(aka u58402@uicvm.uic.edu
 at the ever so friendly and personal univ. of ill. at chicago)
From: sieh@panix.com (Twinkie Chinkie)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.asian.american
Subject: Re: Degrees of racism (was Re: Caucasians don't understand)
Date: 31 Aug 92 03:07:38 GMT
Distribution: na
Organization: PANIX Public Access Unix & Internet, NYC

In article <1992Aug25.014819.8290@oakhill.sps.mot.com> 
jpak@manute.sps.mot.com (Kinder and Gentler Jim) writes:
>In article <1992Aug24.202037.6176@island.COM> fester@island.COM (Mike Fester)
>writes:
>In article <1992Aug18.225505.28047@oakhill.sps.mot.com> Jim writes:
>>>This is the only part of Mike's post I'd like to comment on.  I think people
>>>make the "mine is worse than yours" arguments in order to point out that the
>>>degree of racism you encountered matters.  Racism is not a binary variable.
>>
>>Are we to assume, then, that YOUR experiences should be trivialized, because,
>>after all, Asians weren't treated as badly as blacks or Indians?
>
>If I were to walk into soc.culture.african.american or a hypothetical
>soc.culture.native.american right in the middle of a thread where a Black
>or Native American person was talking about their encounters with racism, and
>then try to brush off *their* experiences by saying I've encountered racism
>too, then ***YES***, I most certainly *WOULD* expect my experiences to be
>trivialized in that newsgroup.  And good for me!!  I'd look awfully stupid
>trying to compare some of my troubles with theirs.

I don't understand how you are equating discussion of your own experience of
discrimination as trivializing another person's experience of discrimination.
What's the logic behind it?

It's never stupid to hear the experiences of others.  I find it interesting
and as a form of information.  If anything, it shows that racism affects a
lot of people and regardless of color and ethnicity.  Furthermore, those who
have been affected will want to see that it doesn't happen to them again and
work to change it.  And, it's better to talk to thse people than to people
who don't care because they haven't experienced racism before and who are
probably more resistant to change.

//Twinkie Chinkie
-- 
//Lui Sieh
Dum loquimur, fugerit invida Aetas: carpe diem, quam minimum postero.  
Horace, Odes, I.xi.7;	<-- "Why post to USENET?" -Brian O.  Indeed.
What about my opinions?   ====>>   /dev/null     or    sieh@panix.com 
Newsgroups: soc.culture.asian.american
From: shaw@whopper.lcs.mit.edu (Andy Shaw)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.asian.american
Subject: What Separates Us?  Part 1: Race
Date: 27 Aug 92 06:16:59 GMT
Distribution: soc
Organization: MIT Lab for Computer Science, Cambridge, Mass.

A while back, I wrote a post about "What separates us?" as Asian-Americans,
in order to gain a greater understanding of what we have in common, what
should unite us, and why we should work together.

This is an excerpt from that post about how RACE separates us.

===<begin excerpt from introductory post====

1. RACE and CULTURE -- this is probably the major stumbling block.  Despite
the fact that we are supposedly in a group called "Asian-Americans", each
of us identifies with at least one smaller group within the
"Asian-American" group, whether we are Chinese, Japanese, Korean,
Vietnamese, Filipino, Indian, etc.

  a.  There are historic enmities between many of our groups: in
particular, perhaps between Chinese and Japanese, as well as Korean and
Japanese, and to a smaller extent, between Chinese and Korean.

  b.  Southeast Asians such as Vietnamese, Thais, Filipinos, Laotians,
Cambodians, and others may feel they are in a different situation than
Japanese, Korean, and Chinese.  Quite frankly, there is a problem of
status, and relative power of those groups in a global sense, and a problem
of historical attitudes and prejudices which are of a different character
than the hatred described in a.

  c.  Are Indian-Americans Asian-Americans?  I think so, but why?

Our root cultures are so different, why should we work together, and what
do we have in common?

===<end excerpt from introductory post====

In my next post, I will go into more detail about how race separates us,
and why it shouldn't, at least to the degree that it does today.

-Andy
From: clee@cs.pitt.edu (Chen Lee)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.asian.american
Subject: HELP: Chinese food cookbook in English
Date: 27 Aug 92 23:04:51 GMT
Organization: Computer Science Dept., University of Pittsburgh

Could anyone recommend a good English version Chinese food 
cookbook?

Thanks,

--
Chen Lee			|  "Do not do to others what you would not
clee@cs.pitt.edu		|   have them do to you".
From: joe@astro.as.utexas.edu (Joe Wang)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.asian.american
Subject: Re: Perceptions, Realities, Perceptions
Date: 2 Sep 92 05:46:05 GMT
Distribution: soc
Organization: McDonald Observatory, University of Texas @ Austin

In article <1992Sep1.122123.19413@nynexst.com> clare@nynexst.com (Clare Chu) writes:
>  Sorry, until you become Asian American, you cannot
>  even vote in this country.  So where do you think you can get
>  the power to tell Americans (includind AAs) to get lost.

There seem to be two definitions of "Asian-American" floating around.

One is simply the list of people of Asian ancestry with American
citizenship.  The other is this "Asian-American" community that some
people want to come into existence.  I'm included in one definition,
and that doesn't necessarily include me in the other.

I am Chinese, but I'm also an American, with American citizenship,
which means I can vote.  I can even run for President because I'm
a natural born citizen.

>  Glad you enjoy your visit to our country.  We do kind of like it
>  here too.

I keep suspecting you are trying to make some sort of point, but I
can't quite piece together what it is.  

If you are implying that maintaining an attachment with Asia makes it
easier for the "establishment" to say "go back to where you came
from," then perhaps you are right.  I think it does make it a little
easier for them to say this.  But when it comes to forming an
identity, I basically don't care what the "establishment" thinks.
It's something called self-respect.

But anyway, I got this birth certificate, which gives me certain
rights, (like the right to vote), and I do intend to exercise those
rights.  If someone has problems with someone who considers themselves
both Chinese and American exercising those rights, tough, that's their
problem, not mine.

>  That makes you an American citizen.  I guess you'll have to apply
>  for citizenship to China if you ever want to leave, too bad.

Actually it's quite easy to leave the United States, and not too
difficult to establish residency elsewhere. 

>  Looks like you're Asian American whether you like it or not.

And??????  Because I'm an American citizen with Asian ancestry, does
it mean I have to agree with other American citizens with Asian
ancestry?
From: db6j+@andrew.cmu.edu (Douglas S. Brashear)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.asian.american
Subject: Re:Perceptions...
Date: 3 Sep 92 12:55:26 GMT
Article-I.D.: andrew.sedbiy_00awKAA1FNZ
Organization: Junior, English, Carnegie Mellon, Pittsburgh, PA


Excerpts from netnews.soc.culture.asian.american: 3-Sep-92 Re: Degrees
of racism (was .. Clare Chu@nynexst.com (2803)

> Get this straight, you explicitly posted that you did not consider
>   yourself AA since you consider yourself Chinese.  As I told Mr.
>   Douglas Basher already, AA is self-defined.  If he wants to
>   consider himself AA, who's to say he's not.

> Whoa...I never said that I wanted to define myself as an AA (Please dont
> label me a "wanna-be"...no offense, of course!
> I merely stated that I subscribe to this bboard because I have many AA
> friends and by reading this bboard, it helps me identify and relate with
> their views on particular subjects that concern them!
> Whoa, also dont label me as another JJ- he sounds like a
> real...uh...(trying to avoid a slanderous comment here...really
> difficult...)...I'm sure everyone that reads this bboard can agree that
> he is INfamous!

> Just thought I'd say that!
> DOUG
> db6j+@andrew.cmu.edu
> disclaimer: rarely take anything I say seriously, unless its nice!
From: jj@alice.att.com (jj,  curmudgeon and clueless old white boy)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.asian.american
Subject: Re: Degrees of racism (was Re: Caucasians don't understand)
Date: 1 Sep 92 15:20:25 GMT
Article-I.D.: alice.23604
Reply-To: jj@alice.UUCP (jj,  curmudgeon and clueless old white boy)
Distribution: na
Organization: NJ State Home for Bewildered Terminals

In article <1992Sep1.013949.3885@news.acns.nwu.edu> dowdy@tochtli.biochem.nwu.edu (Dowdy Jackson) writes:
>Whites are evil ??? I've never said that.... To borrow a phrase commonly
No, you've implied it.  You've said that there is never, ever,
any point in trying to cultivate whites, that it will always
and forever turn out to cause you more trouble.  That's implying
outright that whites are both evil and sub-human.  That's
pretty straightforward.

>I don't think so.... Tell me ...when was the last time you were the only
>white person at a dance club or a course ??
You have a short memory.

>You got that right. The problem is that we aren't going to take abuse by
>whites just so that we can be accepted by you...PERIOD.

Pardon me?  How's asked you to take abuse?  I've asked you not to abuse
me.  That's different.  Every time you say "whites this, whites
that", you abuse me.  RACISM HAPPENS BETWEEN INDIVIDUALS REGARDLESS
OF THE FACT THAT THE SOCIETY MAY ENCOURAGE IT. CHANGE THE INDIVIDUALS,
AND YOU GET RID OF THE PROBLEM.  Reflect to the INDIVIDUAL what
that individual does, and you'll make progresss.  Tarring me,
and "all whites" for what some individual has done, will ONLY
CAUSE MORE HATRED.  THERE CAN BE NO OTHER OUTCOME.  Until you
stop doing that, I'm going to assume that's what you want.
-- 
 Bush    *Copyright alice!jj 1992, all rights reserved, except transmission
   vs       *by USENET and like facilities granted.      Said permission is
 Clinton  --    *granted only for complete copies that include this notice.
 Just Say !NO!       *Use on pay-for-read services specifically disallowed.
Newsgroups: soc.culture.asian.american
From: Arthur_T_Hu@cup.portal.com
Newsgroups: soc.culture.asian.american,soc.culture.african.american,ca.politics
Subject: Asian Cop Murders White Woman in Asian Chancellor's Home
Date: 1 Sep 92 17:06:10 GMT
Article-I.D.: cup.65066
Organization: The Portal System (TM)

Asian Cop Murders White Woman in Asian Chancellor's Home

Craig Chew, an Asian Male Heterosexual policeman shot Laura Marie
Miller, also known as Rosebud Abigail Denovo, in the home of the
the Asian Male Chancellor of UC Berkeley, which had seized People's
Park. Denovo, a white woman, sexual preference unknown, carried a
machete, presumably to persuade the Chancellor to change University
policy. Asian Americans compose over one-third of the student body
at Berkeley, and are generally politically conservative and hostile to
progressive causes.

<back to reality>

Sounds pretty absurd? Is this any different than how the Rodney King
case was handled? Heck, a band of merry protesters trashed cars and
bulletin boards and windows to protest the death of this looney case
as a martyr, and I'm demanding to know why they're not calling this
a case of racism and sexism.

email replys to arthur@rad.com
arthur hu
San Jose CA
Don't represent anybody or anything but me.