HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: fafat@phakt.usc.edu (Vijay Fafat)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.indian
Subject: Re: Do we need a religion?
Date: 18 Dec 1992 12:44:37 -0800
Organization: University of Southern California, Los Angeles, CA
Distribution: usa
NNTP-Posting-Host: phakt.usc.edu

Satya Prabhakar writes:

>IMHO, Veerendra is right on the money. Even a cursory reading of
>(which is what I did recently) Immanuel Kant's "Prologomena to
>The Critique of Pure Reason" raises enough questions in the mind 
>of the reader and makes it difficult to accept the conventional, and
>often tacit, definition of "reality". 
>
>[Actually, Veerendra has raised some interesting questions himself
>in the above paragraph.]

	yes, he stumbled onto the quantum world but undid himself by
	saying that there's an "immutable reality" beyond that which science
	can see. He contradicted himself.


>The very name of Kant and the daunting names of his books have
>for long stopped me from even attempting to read these books.
>But when I picked up the book recently it proved to be very
>clear and well-reasoned. (I am still to complete it.) I recommend
>this book very highly.

	I doubt if Worma would find Kant reasonable since by Kant's logic,
	his "vedic theories" would fall flat.

	FFT



Newsgroups: soc.culture.indian
From: godura@hercules.cis.udel.edu (Ruchir Godura)
Subject: Re: THEY DID WHAT IS RIGHT FOR THE MAJORITY.
Organization: University of Delaware, Newark
Date: Fri, 11 Dec 1992 19:48:24 GMT

In article <1992Dec11.150027.22635@usl.edu> sgs@ucs.usl.edu (Sudhindranath SG) writes:
>In article <1992Dec10.215222.7443@galileo.cc.rochester.edu> ousi_ltd@uhura.cc.rochester.edu (Fanatic Hindu Basher) writes:
>>In <1992Dec9.200218.7176@oucsace.cs.ohiou.edu> cdram@b0ddddd.ent.ohiou.edu (Ram) writes:
>>
>You are assuming that courts of law in India uphold law and justice. 
>You are also assuming that in India, law will be allowed to take its course.
>
>My friend, you are making VERY BIG assumptions. Because, in 
>Nehru-Indira-Rajiv's India, there is no such thing as law, no such 
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>thing as justice...
>
>>
>>Omer..
>
>Regards,
>
>--Sudhi.
>
AHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH !
Back in fo, mr fanatic nehru basher ?
Why blame mr fanatic hindu ? He was born in the land of Nehru/IG/RG.
It's not his fault he's like that.
Likewise, I must sympahise with mr fanatic hindu basher. Being from the
same subcontinent as nehru/IG/RG, he can't help being evil.
Why don't you shut up if you don't have anything new to say.

Regards,
Ruchir.

>-- 
>*********************************************************************
>Sira Gopinath Sudhindranath. 
>email : sudhi@usl.edu, sgs@ucs.usl.edu
>*********************************************************************

-- 
Ruchir Godura | godura@cis.udel.edu | (302) 292-0668 (H) (302) 831-1949 (W)
From: fafat@phakt.usc.edu (Vijay Fafat)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.indian
Subject: Re: Do we need a religion?
Date: 17 Dec 1992 10:53:23 -0800
Organization: University of Southern California, Los Angeles, CA
Distribution: usa
NNTP-Posting-Host: phakt.usc.edu

Worma writes:
>	Once Akbar asked Brahmins he wanted to become a Hindu. Brahmins said
>	no, you don't need to. Just practice whatever your innermost self
>	says is right.
>-- Virendra Verma

	Then why do you holler out your poor lungs at Ed when he wants to 
	eat cow meat, O Janus-faced Worma? Ed's innermost self says it's
	right to eat meat and wrong to eat plants. :)

	FFT
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Disclaimer: My innermost self and logic says Vedic knowledge is no knowledge.

FFT, the Worma baiter :)
---------------------------------------------------------------------------


Newsgroups: soc.culture.indian
From: ghouse@gauss.cs.jhu.edu (Mujtaba Ghouse)
Subject: Re: Secularism.. Overkill.
Keywords: communal carnage
Organization: Johns Hopkins Computer Science Department, Baltimore, MD
Date: Sat, 12 Dec 1992 15:57:40 GMT

>>Surya N Kavuri writes:
>> All the problems in the world today (including
>>Serbians) seem to have a Muslim-connection.  Either these people
>>are trouble-mongers or it is a surprising coincidence.

Could you please explain the "Muslim-connection" in the civil wars
in El Salvador, Nicaragua, Peru, Cambodia etc or in the problems in
South Africa?  

Else, kindly post a retraction and/or apology.

-Mujtaba Ghouse

Newsgroups: soc.culture.indian,soc.culture.pakistan,soc.culture.bangladesh
From: thakar@nauvax.ucc.nau.edu
Newsgroups: soc.culture.indian
Subject: RE: Education, the solution/ reply to Rajesh patel
Date: 11 Dec 92 19:04:46 GMT
Organization: Northern Arizona University

test
test
please ignore.
From: kurian@ecs.umass.edu
Newsgroups: soc.culture.indian
Subject:          GUESS WHAT :::::::::::::::
Date: 10 Dec 92 23:57:53 GMT




Guess what people,,,,,,


the folks who use the net have something new to talk about...... for some
time at least.


it's quite a nice change from the regular stuff......Khalistan  etc



After listening,  reading and talking about what happened,  I got just one 

thing to say to all the people here and back home in India:::;


to find out what THAT  thing is send e-mail to:



in%"Kurian@ecs.umass.edu"




only serious inquires only....


god bless my country (India i.e)

ps.  i am using this account which belongs to my friend as my account has 

expired for some time and i haven't  had had the time to renew it.....

Xref: sparky soc.culture.indian:40858 soc.culture.pakistan:18198
From: udumudi@vanilla (u v babu srinivas)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.indian
Subject: Re: Hinduism and Islam in the 21st Century
Date: 16 Dec 1992 13:54:10 GMT
Organization: Worcester Polytechnic Institute
NNTP-Posting-Host: vanilla.wpi.edu
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1 PL6]

ks == Kannan Subramanian (kannan@lamar.ColoState.EDU) wrote:

ks> within the Hindu faith as well as "foreign" cultures, the notion of equality
ks> of all cultures was never a part of it. Given that the Hindu society itself 
ks> coagulated into a morass of multi-layered feudal and caste hierarchies, it
ks> was always possible for a Hindu, upon meeting a new culture at high noon, 
ks> to relegate it somewhere below the lowest rungs of the already existing 
ks> social order and thereby "co-exist" with it. 

It would've been better, if you had given some examples from history
demonstrating this point.


ks> frenzy as Muslims or Christians. There is nothing inherently tolerant about 
ks> Hindu _citizens_. (Hindu _philosophy_ may be a different matter altogether). 
As far as I have read, 'hindu philosophies' were always lived.
This is the prime difference between western and Indian religions
(if I can call 'hinduism' a religion).

						     -- srinivas
--
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
|                                                                         |
|                                                                         |
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Newsgroups: soc.culture.indian
From: divaka@isaac.its.rpi.edu (Ajay Divakaran)
Subject: Re: 3 BJP ruled state govts. dismissed
Reply-To: divaka@rpi.edu
Organization: Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute, Troy, NY.
Date: Wed, 16 Dec 1992 00:18:17 GMT

This is yet another Himalayan blunder by the GOI. Such actions will
only make martyrs of rabble rousers. Imposing presidential rule is not
a magic wand that will make problems go away. This is a move that will
strengthen Hindu communalism not weaken it. Just shows that the imperial
attitude of the Congress has still not changed. Legitimately elected
governments should not be dismissed. The Govt of UP surrendered its right
to power when it surrendered to the mob of kar sewaks. The other BJP governments
were well within their rights to stay in power.
           Left to themselves, the BJP governments would have sunk under the
weight of their own incompetence. In Rajasthan the writing was clearly on
the wall. Now the BJP has got a fresh lease of life in all these states. This
is political myopia at its worst. 
              It is a sad day indeed when a "pseudo-secularist" like me has
to speak up for the rights of the BJP led state governments. But constitutional
rights cannot be denied, even though I thoroughly abhor the sectarian view
of the BJP. 
                                                    ajay
Newsgroups: soc.culture.indian
From: muraliv@microsoft.com (Murali Venkatrao)
Subject: Information needed to go to Mexico for H-1 VISA
Date: 11 Dec 92 22:36:34 GMT
Organization: Microsoft Corporation


I am poing this message on behalf of my friend
Ravi Aithal. Please reply to the email address
given below.

I plan to go to Monterrey, Mexico to get my multiple-entry H1 visa
in a couple of weeks. I could not get the
Mexican Visa from the Mexican Consulate in St. Louis,  would like to 
know if it is easier to get it from the Mexican Consulate in Laredo, 
Texas. Preferably, I would like to hear from people who have obtained
Mexican Visas in  Laredo in the last couple of months. If you are interested
in sharing your experiences (both at Laredo and Monterrey), please
send me your email address and/or a phone number and the time you would like me
to call you.

My email address is cpg051@golem.sbc.com (it is zero five five).

Thanks in advance fro your co-operation.

Ravi Aithal
Newsgroups: soc.culture.indian,soc.culture.pakistan,soc.culture.bangladesh
From: ahmed@cs.tcd.ie (El-Habbash Ahmed)
Subject: Re: Double standards of Islamic countries
Organization: Computer Science, Trinity College Dublin
Date: Fri, 18 Dec 1992 15:43:35 GMT

fb78@sol.acs.unt.edu (Ganesh Gopalakrishnan) writes:

>hyder@cs.utexas.edu (Syed Irfan Hyder) writes:
>>Indeed the only DEEN in front of Allah is Islam!
>            ^^^^^^^^^             ^^^^^          
>I have no problem with that so long as you keep your beliefs to
>yourself and others who believe likewise. I do not agree
>with you and hope you will respect my difference in opinion.

>- ganesh 

I think the diference of opinion is the misunderstanding of the meaning
of the word Islam. Islam means the submission to Allah, the One God.

Do you consider any system to be Deen (religion) if it is not based on
the full submission to Allah ?

Ahmed El-Habbash

Newsgroups: soc.culture.indian
From: kumar@infonode.ingr.com (Mahesh Kumar)
Subject: Re: Let us retake and reform Hinduism
Organization: Intergraph Corporation, Huntsville, AL.
Date: Wed, 16 Dec 1992 00:10:27 GMT

In article <Bz9vC6.IqD@constellation.ecn.uoknor.edu> gowda@uokmax.ecn.uoknor.edu (M.V.Rajeev Gowda) writes:
>
>
>the United States?  Do you holier-than-Rama-himself Hindus take
>part in Christmas parties in your schools and offices and join
>Christmas carol singers and celebrate the majorityUs festivals in
>this secular country?  Lots of Muslims celebrate Diwali in India,
>after all.  Do you feel totally secure and certain in a land full


>minority?  Do you understand why people in this country have
>holiday parties rather than Christmas parties, because this way,
>they are being sensitive to Hindus and others in this country to
>whom Christmas may have no meaning.  They are not pandering to us. 
>Just being sensitive.

>
  You seem a bit confused here: 
  On the one hand you talk about christmas parties and whether 'hindus'
attend them.  On the other hand you indicate that there are holiday parties 
and not christmas parties because they are being sensitive to other 
religions.  Following your logic, what is wrong in a person making the
assumption that people who host the former are insensitive to other 
religions?

  I for one havent heard of these holiday parties.  If invited, people
do attend christmas parties without giving a second thought that it is 
something religious.  I dont think anyone beleives that people must not
hold these parties for fear of offending someones sentiments.  By going
to christmas parties, do I consider myself oppressed - NO.

 Mahesh Kumar
Std. disclaimer applies

>******************
>M. V. Rajeev Gowda
From: fafat@usc.edu (Vijay Fafat)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.indian
Subject: Re: Do we need a religion?
Date: 18 Dec 1992 12:56:29 -0800
Organization: University of Southern California, Los Angeles, CA
Distribution: world
NNTP-Posting-Host: phakt.usc.edu


Akash Deshpande writes:
>>	         The proofs of science are based on 'virtual reality', i.e., 
>>	the reality which exist within the context of seeker's sense
>>	instruments.
>
>Finally, well said V. You can round off your argument with the following 
>quote from Kena Upanishad:


	And why should anyone take Kena Upanishada at face value? 


>I am still waiting for "proof" that there's light when the sun's up.
>Since I am rather certain that there can be no such proof, I am justified
>in assuming that hardened amateur philosophers are blind to the
>light of the inner sun.
>-Akash

	ask your friend (preferably Worma :) to hold a giant convex lens
	and tell me if you're impervious when your clothes catch fire.

	FFT
From: dante@sytex.com (Vikram David)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.indian
Subject: Indian Muslims had it the
Date: Sat, 12 Dec 92 14:19:58 EST
X-Maildoor: WaflineMail 1.00r

SS>Path: sytex!uunet!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!cs.utexas.edu!asuvax!ennews!enux
  >as.asu.edu!sardesai
  >From: sardesai@enuxha.eas.asu.edu (Shantanu Sardesai)
  >Newsgroups: soc.culture.indian
  >Subject: Indian Muslims had it their way since the independence.
  >Keywords: Garv se kaho ham hindu hai!
  >Message-ID: <1992Dec10.231341.19014@ennews.eas.asu.edu>
  >Date: Thu, 10 Dec 1992 23:13:41 GMT
  >Sender: news@ennews.eas.asu.edu (USENET News System)
  >Organization: Arizona State University
  >Lines: 38




SS>        The Associated Press says in   The New York Times   and
  >The Arizona Republic :

SS>        "Since the slaughter of hundreds of thousands of Muslims and
  >Hindus at partition, India has sought a reconciliation between the
  >Muslims minority and the Hindu majority, but waves of conflict have
  >undercut the efforts. The partition was forced by Muslims seeking a
  >separate nation, Pakistan."

SS>        Hindus have tolerated the Indian Muslims too much. Muslims give
  >more importance to their religion than to the motherland India. For
  >them we accepted a different national anthem "Jan gan man ..",
  >than our good old independence song "Vande mataram..", even after
  >the partition.

SS>        Muslims in India can do any thing under the name of their
  >religion because they are minority. But  if Hindus  even try to
  >protect their religion then its an anti-national activity.

SS>        Indian Muslims had it their way for a long time! The question
  >here is not only of demolishing the mosque.There are so many issues
  >which needs to be resolved since the independence.The mosque demolition
  >is just a representetive of the  lack of religious independence and the
  >frustration that Hindus have faced for last 45 years in their own
  >country.

SS>        Common, get together! Don't let Muslims dictate their terms in
  >India, they can do so in Pakistan. India is not a Muslim contry, neither
  >we are a "cutter" Hindu country. But, now it is the time for us and we wont
  >hesitate to make India, a "cutter" Hindu nation "BHARAT".

SS>shantanu.

Hold on just a minute.  Do you think that India belongs to HINDUS?
WRONG!  India belongs to all Indians, even muslims.  You are
stereotyping!  There are muslims that care for Bharat!

How can you leave out the other religions?  You know, Jainism, Buddhism,
Sikhism, and Christianity.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't St. Thomas land in South India long
before any muslim invaders did?

I am a CHRISTIAN, and one of my ancestors in the 19th century, who was a
`PANDIT', ran away to become a christian.  Does this mean that he is no
longer an Indian?  You are VERY wrong in thinking that religion should
decide if one is an Indian or not.

---
 * OLX 2.2 * Ever stop to think and forget to start again?
     
Newsgroups: soc.culture.indian
From: thiyagarajan@mims.enet.dec.com (R. Thiyagarajan)
Subject: Re: Address of the Madras Office of "THE HINDU"
Organization: Digital Equipment Corporation
Date: Mon, 14 Dec 1992 17:24:26 GMT


>Does anyone know the address of the Madras office of the
>newspaper "THE HINDU"?
> 
>Janani
>(jej@caen.engin.umich.edu)
> 
> 

The Editor,
The Hindu
Madras 
India.   
will work (worked for me with other magazines)

RT
Newsgroups: soc.culture.indian
From: rachada@icaen.uiowa.edu (Ramakrishna Chada)
Subject: Re: Somalia and Ayodhya (was Re: India -PVNR Indignant )
Date: Mon, 14 Dec 1992 06:02:54 GMT
Organization: Iowa Computer Aided Engineering Network, University of Iowa

In article <1992Dec11.163907.25778@blaze.cs.jhu.edu> ghouse@gauss.cs.jhu.edu (Mujtaba Ghouse) writes:
>prabhak@giga.cs.umn.edu (Satya Prabhakar) writes:
>>Interesting it is to note that the combined Islamic heart bleeds profusely
>>over the destruction of an inanimate mosque, but not for the millions of 
>>their starving  Islamic brethren in Somalia.
>
>
>
>Let me say again that the protests are not about the destruction of a
>building so much as fear of an India in which non-Hindus have no place,
>possibly even one in which they are given the choice of "a suitcase or a
>bullet."
>
>-Mujtaba Ghouse
>

Let me also say that the destruction of the mosque standing over the temple
was not so much as to honour Ram, but more of the fear of an India in which
the Hindus would be oppressed. Of a state where there are two laws. One
for muslim one for others. A state where one huge section of the population
are more loyal to a neighbouring country than the one in which they are.
State sponsored appeasement is very much existent and this is what the fight
is about.

Ramakrishna
From: gupta@orion.oac.uci.edu (mohan gupta)
Subject: yet another chance for DELHI UNIVERSITY STUDENTS
Newsgroups: soc.culture.indian
Organization: University of California, Irvine
Date: 17 Dec 92 06:12:11 GMT
Distribution: usa


Hi Friends:
 
NOTE: THIS MAIL IS ONLY MEANT FOR THE PEOPLE WHO HAVE NOT RESPONDED TO MY
      PREVIOUS POSTING ON THE NET.

I am trying to compile a list of DU students and so far the present list
contains over 130 responses and the very first version of this list has
been forwarded to all the individuals. To update this list, it will be nice if
you give the information about yourself in the following order (please do not
change that order otherwise it takes a lot of time to correct it):
			
			NAME
			COLLEGE AT D.U.
			MAJOR AT D.U.
			YEAR OF GRADUATION AT D.U.
                        HIGHEST DEGREE EARNED FROM D.U.
			ARRIVAL YEAR IN U.S.
			PRESENT OCCUPATION
                        PRESENT UNIVERSITY
                        PRESENT MAJOR/FIELD
         		PRESENT ADDRESS
			PHONE NUMBER
			E-MAIL ADDRESS


You can also add other additional informations. Please send your e-mail to

       gupta@orion.oac.uci.edu

As soon as I start getting the new responses, I will update the list and
a copy of it will be sent to you on the eve of NEW YEAR as a special gift. 
I hope this will help in maintaining the contacts with the old and new friends.


Thanks in advance for taking your time.



mohan gupta
From: bhatnagr@ucunix.san.uc.edu (Raj Bhatnagar)
Subject: Re: Forwarded note
Organization: University of Cincinnati
Date: Tue, 15 Dec 1992 22:34:55 GMT

In article <BzBCn8.6A6@sun3.vlsi.uwaterloo.ca> 
arun@sun14.vlsi.uwaterloo.ca (Arun Achyuthan) writes:

>I am posting this for Harminder Dhillon. Please do not

>----------------------------
>Today's The Globe and Mail, Canada's national paper has a cartoon on the 
>editorial page portraying a religious compound named "India" and its 
>outer wall says in bold
>
> Death To Unbelievers
>
>Raj Bhatnagar, that is what you and your cohorts have done to my India, 
>whose mere name used to evoke the image of Mahatama. Our coming 
>generations will pay dearly for your black deeds!!
>
>with heartfull of pain
>harminder dhillon
>_______________________

Dear Harminder ji, you were unable to counter any of my arguments
(I think it was about 2+ years ago!) without resorting to abuses
etc. And now you have found another excuse to release some more of
your frustration by dumping some more on abuses me! 

I understand you perfectly and wish mental peace for you and all other
communists I may have argued with in the past.

-----------

What I have stated many a times and does not seem to penetrate
some heads is the fact that I will any day oppose political 
objectives being pursued by the pan-Islamists and have nothing
for/against any particular way of worship. As long as religion
is confined to spiritual issues I don't care about any one, but
the moment the goals of "dar-ul-Islams" are sought I will like
to see all such seekers subdued by the Indian state/nation/polity.

And harminder jee, those who have caused the sad rioting and loss
of life are cohorts of all of us, unless you are renouncing your
Indian citizenship. Indian Govt., judiciary, and political establishment
have all failed to resolve a conflict in a peaceful manner. Every
such agency that let it remain in limbo since 1948 court cases is
equally responsible for the way in which it blew up on 6th of 
December. Yes, BJP, VHP etc have their share of blame for letting
the movement take an unconstitutional course, but it is wrong the
deny the complicity of the courts and the previous governments in
not resolving it earlier and keeping it alive for potential electoral
exploitation. 

I think when the shock of the events is over, a rational and cool
minded analysis will throw the majority of blame on those who 
refused to pay attention to it as a dispute and just wished it away.


Well, I wish you peace whereever you are. . . .


---raj

Newsgroups: soc.culture.indian
From: kat@doe.carleton.ca (Kathiravan Krishnamurthi)
Subject: Re: The Fall (out) of Babri Masjid : part 4
Organization: Dept. of Electronics, Carleton University
Date: Fri, 11 Dec 1992 18:08:35 GMT

In <Byzz47.Cvx@cs.psu.edu> narayana@psuvax1.cs.psu.edu (Kuram T Narayana) writes:

>Islamic repression and the events of partition have legitimized two 
>things: (1) India is a Hindu nation. (2) Islamic culture is alien.
>This is a historical truth. Mahatma Gandhi tried to ride against this
>historical truth. But his appeal for indian nationalism to rid the
>nation of British is a political one, and is not sufficient to bring
>about a change in perception. Nay! his preaching of nonviolence does
>not make him any better person to deal with it. It is pure hypocracy
>to think that a technique which has an appeal in one sector will also
>appeal in another sector of cultural assimulation. It requires a
>person of the dialectical calibre and the intellectual excellence of
>Adi Sankara to synthesize a novice system in order to integrate the
>thought processes of the different and differing phsyches of the
>two nations in India. Mahatma Gandhi is no Adi Sankara. Actually he
>is no where near to Adi Sankara. Mahatma Gandhi does not measure up
>even an inch of Adi Sankara.

>With these two concepts of legitimacy of a Hindu nation and the
>alien nature of Islam established, we can now look at more
>substantively the political aspects of the fall of Babri Masjid
>and the rest of the fall out.

     Mahatmaa ghaandhi is a legend. He did not only understand
the "aryanik" crooks of the RSS type. That is the mistake he
committed.  aadi sankaraa! how does he come here. 
Kathiravan