HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: marti@nugget.inf.ethz.ch (Robert Marti)
Subject: Re: Sauber test
Organization: Dept. Informatik, Swiss Federal Institute of Technology (ETH), Zurich, CH
Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1992 10:22:13 GMT

In article <1992Nov19.070918.26367@abo.fi>, TBACKMAN@FINABO.ABO.FI
(Timo B{ckman TF) writes:
|> Karl Wendlinger and JJ Lehto, have tested for Sauber yesterday at
|> Paul Ricard. Lehto drove 40 laps with the C12 car and his fastest
|> lap was 1.04,7.  [...]  JJ Lehto was very pleased to drive "a good
|> car" after a terrible year at Dallara.  The C12 is built according
|> to the 1992 regulations.
|> Karl Wendlinger drove a few laps (only 3 laps) with the new C13
|> which is built for the 1993 season. His fastest lap was 1.06,5.
|> He was not happy with the car. 
|> That's all about the test. Maybe Robert Marti can get more information.

I can't really add much to the above.  Thursday's (11/19) paper said
pretty much the same thing, except saying that Lehto's C12 was in 1993
configuration.  (Of course, Lehto's C12 was originally built according
to the 1992 rules.  Wendlinger's car was built to 1993 spec right away.
Also, they still called Wendlinger's brand new car a C12.)

They also mentioned that Alain Prost clocked a 1:02,67 in a Williams
FW15 a week earlier.

Today's (11/20) paper mentions that Lehto improved his previous best
to 1:04,60 even though he could not drive much due to gusty winds
along Mistral straight.

-- 
Robert Marti                    |  Phone:    +41 1 254 72 60
Informationssysteme             |  FAX:      +41 1 262 39 73
ETH-Zentrum                     |  E-Mail:   marti@inf.ethz.ch
CH-8092 Zurich, Switzerland     |
From: pete@minster.york.ac.uk
Newsgroups: rec.autos.sport
Subject: Re: Information wanted
Date: 19 Nov 92 12:59:41 GMT
Organization: Department of Computer Science, University of York, England

Robert Marti (marti@inf.ethz.ch) wrote:
: saying that, at the present time, there were some "preliminary studies"
: as to what kind of engine might be best (V8, V10 or V12).  Motorsport
: aktuell went even further and speculated about a "W12" design (3 banks
: of four cylinders with a common crankshaft).  Apparently, Audi already
: has a 6 litre W12 engine for a show car which was shown in Tokio (?)
: last year.
: 

According to today's Autosport, Audi already have a ``high-revving 3.5l
V10''...

pete
--
*Peter Fenelon -- Research Associate -- Software Safety Assessment Procedures*
Dept. of Computer Science, University of York, York, Y01 5DD (+44/0)904 433388
EMAIL: pete@minster.york.ac.uk `There's no room for enigmas in built up areas'
From: ulrich@canberra (Nathan Ulrich)
Newsgroups: rec.autos.sport
Subject: Re: open-wheel drag (Re: F1 Stuff)
Date: 15 Nov 92 04:19:08 GMT
Article-I.D.: netnews.1992Nov15.041908.17889
Reply-To: ulrich@canberra.whoi.edu
Organization: Woods Hole Oceanographic Institution

Andy Welter writes
> I would guess that the major contributor to race car drag would be the
> wings.  With all the downforce that racecars have, the wings would have to
> add alot to the drag as well.  If that is the case, you would see a major
> difference between the Cd of an Indy car with its low downforce/drag setup
> for the Indy 500, and the Cd of an Indy Car setup for a road course.
...
> Physics question:  What are the units that Cd is measured in???  How do you 
> convert Cd to the actual force of drag at a given speed?

The coefficent of drag (Cd) is a dimensionless constant expressing the  
resistance to flow of a specific form.  Drag force = coefficent of drag x  
projected frontal area x velocity squared x fluid density.  Projected frontal  
area is basically the size of the hole a car would leave if driven through a  
paper wall (at least in the cartoons).  The velocity-independent terms in air  
are Cd and projected frontal area.  That's why a minivan _could_ have a Cd  
lower than a sports car and still have a higher drag force at any given  
velocity--the frontal area is much higher.  It's also worth noting the small  
frontal area of formula cars.

As a couple of other people have pointed out, the drag coefficients of race  
cars are usually quite high and are often greater than 1.  Race car designers  
are more concerned with the downforce (or lift) generated by a car and in  
maximizing the lift/drag ratio.  Obviously, some circuits reward high downforce  
(and hence faster cornering) more than straightline speed, and vice versa,  
which is why the wings are so small for the cars at the Indy 500.

It actually turns out that, even with the mandatory flat-bottom area, more  
downforce is generated by the body of a F1 car than by either the front or rear  
wings.  Indy cars don't have as many restrictions on the underbody (do they?),  
which implies they get even more downforce from their bodies, so the  
dramatically different wing sizes for different circuits don't translate to  
such a major change in lift and drag.

--
Nathan Ulrich
Deep Submergence Laboratory
Woods Hole Oceanographic Institution
ulrich@canberra.whoi.edu
Newsgroups: rec.autos.sport
From: Ken Wilkens <wilkens%nmr@venus.ycc.yale.edu>
Subject: Re: Turbos
Organization: Yale University
X-Useragent: Nuntius v1.1a2
Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1992 12:31:01 GMT

well on turbo lag smaller is better for the reason you site. I haven't
been following turbo design as of late but I know they were working on
variable vane design which might overcome some of the lag problems. And
being on a reca car if the RPMs stay around the same area once the turbo
is at spped it won't chnage that much. (well sounds good at least!)

Ken
Newsgroups: rec.autos.sport
From: freewill@carson.u.washington.edu (William Kaufman)
Subject: re: IMSA abandons GTP for open cockpits
Organization: University of Washington, Seattle
Distribution: usa
Date: Mon, 23 Nov 1992 18:42:21 GMT



The full-bodied single seater has the potential to show F1 the way as
far as the best design for pure racing, IMHO. Unfortunately, it may take 
adoption by F1 (or CART) to do this, which doesn't seem likely. However,
if the sanctioning and regulation is well done and manufacturers get
interested, then the series could be competitive and exciting. I agree,
though, that in weak economic times, production-based racing may be the
From: lcheng@watson.ibm.com
Date: Wed, 18 Nov 92 11:53:18 EST
Subject: Touring car tidbits
Newsgroups: rec.autos.sport


Just bought the Nov. 5 issue of Autosport.  There's an article where
Will Hoy (1991 British touring car champion) drives the MB 190E 2.5-16
Evolution 2 and the Alfa Romeo 155 GTA - and he has some surprising
comments:

Alfa
----
This is a 4wd car with a turbocharged 2-liter engine yielding 410 bhp at
almost 6000 rpm.  The engine is transversely mounted, splitting torque
45/55% front to rear.  Its engine compartment and interior are
surprisingly stock, with digital instrumentation and airconditioning (!)
that allows fixed Perspex side windows to be fitted.

"With such levels of traction, it's possible to dive into corners very
late on the ABS and get all out of shape without (losing) time ... the
tremendous grip simply sorts out all of the problems and rockets you out
of the bend.  You can actually feel all four wheels scrabbling for grip
...."

MB
--
This has a normally aspirated 16-valve engine producing 375 bhp with 300
Nms of torque, redlined at 10,200 rpm.  The car weighs 980 kg, which
includes power steering, a lightweight 6-speed box, Kevlar body panels
and a carbon-fiber propshaft.  An on-board computer automatically makes
rollbar changes during a lap "on the principle that each corner may
require a different setting to maximise potential grip."  The computer
also closes the radiator cowls on long straights to reduce drag.

Again, "the ABS learning curve becomes a game of chicken with the
concrete walls.  You just get later and later (with braking) as you defy
your in-built safety instincts.... As braking distances shrink, so
there's the need for lightening (sic) quick downshifts - so you don't
lose all the time gained.  And, again because of the ABS, you need to
alter your cornering technique ... it's possible to brake right up to
the apex."

Well!  With this contribution I add more fuel to the ABS controversy ...
I would also like to remind R.A.S. readers that life is not all F1 and
Indycars, as high-tech exists in touring and rally cars too.

- Lawrence Cheng
  lcheng@watson.ibm.com
From: kroyce@eniac.seas.upenn.edu (Kevin J Royce)
Newsgroups: rec.autos.sport
Subject: F1 info.
Date: 24 Nov 92 00:52:39 GMT
Organization: University of Pennsylvania

I just learned some things about F1 and next season that might be of
interest to some, even if some of it may be old by now.  It's rather old
news that the Asian GP at Autopolis is cancelled.  The replacement, the
European GP, will be held on the weekend of April 11 at Donington Park,
England.  Apparently, Donington was the only circuit that could guarantee
FISA that it would be ready in time.  Changes to the circuit should include
added viewing and possibly better traffic control (things that are really
needed if you've ever been to Donington).  The latest rumors in Europe
include Martin Brundle going to the U.S. Cart series, but for which team
I haven't heard anything yet.  Tyrell, with their rebadged Judd engine (it
is now called a Yamaha), has bought out the contract of Ukyo Katayama from
Larrouse for quite a some of money, which Larrouse may need if minor
sponsorship problems cannot be ironed out.  Larrouse will be testing later
this week at Paul Ricard in what looks to be a great deal of off-season
testing.  The '93 Lamborghini engine, which Larrouse will have soul rights
to next season, is performing well, already testing with pump fuel at the
same level as was the '92 Phase A engine, with much more time left to improve
even further.
That's about it for now.

Kevin Royce
University of Pennsylvania
From: lmcstst@noah.ericsson.se (Stamos Stamos)
Newsgroups: rec.autos.sport
Subject: Re: F1: 3 year Technology Freeze
Date: 19 Nov 92 17:13:59 GMT
Organization: Ericsson Communications Inc. Montreal, Canada
X-Disclaimer: This article was posted by a user at Ericsson.
              Any opinions expressed are strictly those of the
              user and not necessarily those of Ericsson.

In article <1992Nov19.130038.7421@gdr.bath.ac.uk> bspahh@gdr.bath.ac.uk (Andrew Henry) writes:
>Autosport says that Bernie Ecclestone will propose a three year
>freeze on new technology in a January summit meeting. He also
 
 
>cannot be offered more exposure than they already get.  Hence
>the priority to reduce the costs and to increase the entertainment.
>




But, but, but the thing that makes F1 so interesting and glamours is the 
constantly evolving technology and new cars, no?


Take aim, fire! Ooops, I shot myself in the foot.







--
Stamos <lmcstst@noah.ericsson.se>            ZZR11            Ellas
Ericsson, Cellular Design
Montreal, Canada.
Newsgroups: rec.autos.sport
From: uhdcs@Msu.oscs.montana.edu
Subject: Increasing Pep/HP
Reply-To: uhdcs@Msu.oscs.montana.edu
Organization: Montana State University
Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1992 17:16:15 GMT



	I'd like to get more pep/HP, etc... out of my '89 Probe 2.2 (no turbo). 
How would a "stinger" or a performance "chip" work?  Any suggestions would be
welcome,

Thanks,

Curt
From: stecz@pencom.com (John Steczkowski)
Newsgroups: rec.autos.sport
Subject: Re: Corvette GS ??
Date: 19 Nov 92 21:21:22 GMT
Reply-To: stecz@pencom.com
Distribution: austin
Organization: Pencom Software

In article <78560025@teecs.UUCP> smithr@teecs.UUCP (Robert Smith) writes:
> Does anyone know if there are any of the Corvette Gran Sports still
> in existence? I think only four or five escaped the factory before
> the line was shut down. The last one I saw was at the 1966 Players 200
> at Mosport; george HGeorge Wintersteen had turned it into a coupe and  
was
> racing against a mixed bag including sports racers (group 7).
> 
> Bob.


According to the latest Corvette Quarterly, or Autoweek (I can't remember  
which), all 5 are still in existence.


--
  John Steczkowski                        stecz@pencom.com
              Life without risk is Disneyland
From: D.Brown@bradford.ac.uk (D BROWN)
Newsgroups: rec.autos.sport
Subject: Re: Audi Quits GTCC (Was: BMW quits the GTCC)
Date: 17 Nov 92 12:23:33 GMT
Organization: University of Bradford, UK
Originator: s6667@mail
X-Newsreader: Tin 1.1 PL5


 These ere cranks of AUDI's were as Audi claimed a standard part but as
the rules allow treating of parts Audi treated them.
 What thay did was to take the std offset crank and heat it up and bend it 
to a 180 deg. (opposed crank) this allowed the audi to rev harder as it reduced
vibrations in the engine 
BMW claimed that this was not mearly treting a part but re-engineering it
therefor was a new part in the eyes of BMW.

 Anyway all this is of little importance now as the regulations surounding
touring cars in general is leading to a withdrawal of many top teams.
What thay have done is priced themselvs out of the game ONLY one private team
in BTCC not likley it's Vauxhall under a different guise.
From: bj@cbmvax.commodore.com (Brian Jackson - Amiga Networking)
Newsgroups: rec.autos.sport
Subject: Re: I asked Michael
Date: 16 Nov 92 03:57:43 GMT
Reply-To: bj@cbmvax.commodore.com (Brian Jackson - Amiga Networking)
Organization: Commodore, West Chester, PA

In article <1992Nov13.155810.8212@ann-arbor.applicon.slb.com> wilson@mailhost.aa.cad.slb.com (David Wilson) writes:
>In article <anderbea.65.0@columbia.dsu.edu> anderbea@columbia.dsu.edu (Anthony Anderberg) writes:
>>
>>All I know is that if he is half as great as his father was and still is; he 
>>will be a huge success.
>
>I'll be damned!  Another person who respects Mario!  Let's see now...
>that brings the total up to five of us in r.a.s., by my count.
>You made my day.
>
>Dave Wilson

Make it six.

Brian

       Brian Jackson    Amiga Networking Group, Commodore-Amiga Inc.
                        bj@cbmvax.commodore.com
                       uva uvam vivendo varia fit
From: gfg@bohr.physics.purdue.edu (Gabriele F. Giuliani)
Newsgroups: rec.autos.sport
Subject: Re: Yet more trivia from Autosport (Answers -- finally!)
Date: 16 Nov 92 16:22:35 GMT
Organization: Purdue University Psychic Department

... wait a moment, .. a plane? I thought the great Graham Hill died in a
damn helicopter crash. Can anyone confirm/wet this? gfg
From: danjones@pyrps5.eng.pyramid.com (Dan Jones)
Newsgroups: rec.autos.sport
Subject: Re: Andretti
Date: 18 Nov 92 18:09:55 GMT
Organization: Pyramid Technology Corporation, Mountain View

JAMES DORCEY writes:

>>Someone else mentioned that Mario was born in Italy. I just want
>>to mention that you don't have to be born in the USA to be an American,
>>I am a living example.
>
>Does that mean that if Mansell lives in Clearwater, FL, then he is American
>and not British?

Yes, that's right, he's now OUR Nige'. :-)  

Dan Jones
Newsgroups: rec.autos.sport
From: thos@suite.sw.oz.au (Thomas Cohen)
Subject: Re: Mansell brake tests Senna
Organization: Softway Pty Ltd
Date: 17 Nov 92 21:11:08 GMT

>Mansell is a real pussy for not wanting to race Prost.  James Hunt
>thinks he should stop whinging and just get on and race Prost.  Hunt
>said something like - he should get in a Williams and try to show that
>he deserves the world championship by beating Prost - and if he can't,
>at least put up a good fight.  Can we infer that Hunt thinks Prost is
>better than Mansell?

I think that Mansell has had enough of F1 and its politics. Note that
he's not retiring, he taking a voluntary pay cut of more than, what, $10M?
To me that says 'fed up with this', not 'better get out while I'm on top'.

And James Hunt is a waste of space anyway. He probably resents the fact
that the next British WC was a engineer from Birmingham, who's won more
GPs that Hunt could have, and is almost certainly faster than Hunt ever
was. Hunt was (and I say this yet again) _extremely_ lucky to get his
Championship, and is not really in a position to declaim others as anything.

And Mansell, more than anyone over the last 5 or 6 years, deserved to 
win the championship. After being beaten by bad luck, bad teamwork,
(own goals too, I'll admit) a couple of times, he really did deserve
a win. What happens the year after the championship is not a straight
'come on and knock me off', as everything can change between seasons.
-- 
thos cohen                  ,not a typo        |Softway Pty Ltd
"It's not so bad to be a lair but a conniving  |ACSnet:         thos@softway.oz
 egomaniac is not really that socially accept- |UUCP: ...!uunet!softway.oz!thos
 able."  SMH, 2 Nov 92, P. Keating vs J. Hewson|Internet:    thos@softway.oz.au
From: mjackson.wbst147@xerox.com (Mark Jackson)
Newsgroups: rec.autos.sport
Subject: Donington Park GP
Date: 22 Nov 92 22:55:55 GMT
Reply-To: mjackson.wbst147@xerox.com
Organization: Xerox Corporation, Webster NY

Well, I'd rather see 'em run in the US, but if not this seems like a
good choice.  Should be 4 April 1993, right?  Will it be styled the
"European GP?"

---
Mark <MJackson.Wbst147@Xerox.COM>

  Power tends to corrupt and absolute power corrupts absolutely.
		- Lord Acton, who is almost always misquoted
Newsgroups: rec.autos.sport
From: CENG51@maccvm.corp.mot.com (Craig Witkowski)
Subject: Re: 54 Re: Buck Baker Driving School
Organization: Motorola
Date: 19 Nov 1992 16:43:43 CST

------------------------- Original Article -------------------------
Aeons ago, someone posted this:
>I can recommend that you take the Fast Track High Performance
>Driving School at Charlotte Motor Speedway to get a good feeling for asphalt.
>I took the school as a fan this year and it was a great experience.  They
>provide Winston Cup, BGN and Sportsman cars in a three day basic oval course
>for $1800.  Call Andy Hillenburg there at 704-455-1700 and tell him you heard
>about the course from a ***VERY*** satisfied graduate.

Does anyone know which of the two Andy Hillenburgs this might be?
There were two young sprint car racers by this name, one from Indiana
and the other from Oklahoma.  One or the other said his intent was to
go stock car racing, but I'll be damned if I can remember which.

 -- Chuck Fry  Chucko@charon.arc.nasa.gov

The Andy Hillenburg at Fast Track is the one from Indiana.  I noticed too
during Speedweek, etc. about the other Andy H. and didn't know it was
someone else.  Andy H. at Fast Track set me straight on that one.


Craig Witkowski, CENG51@maccvm.corp.mot.com
Motorola Communications & Electronics Inc.
Glen Rock,  NJ

Let's Go Racin'!
**********************************************************************
*                                                                    *
*         **   **  ***     ********   ********  ***      ******      *
*        ***  **  ****      **   **  **    **  ****     **   **      *
*       ** * **  ** **       **     **        ** **    *******       *
*      **  ***  ******   **   **   **    **  ******   **   **        *
*     **   **  **   **  ********  ********  **   **  **     **       *
*                                                                    *
**********************************************************************
                     AMERICA'S ULTIMATE MOTORSPORT!
Newsgroups: rec.autos.sport
From: b102smi@utarlg.uta.edu (George M. Smiley)
Subject: Re: I asked Michael (Michael a F1 driver, NOT!)
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41    
Organization: The University of Texas at Arlington
Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1992 21:43:00 GMT

chucko@kronos.arc.nasa.gov (Chuck Fry) writes...
b102smi@utarlg.uta.edu (George M. Smiley) writes:
>>Andretti dominanting Indy cars ? You have a very short memory, one
>>championship in ten years hardly qualifies as dominating. 
> 
>Beg pardon, but for the last three years Mikey A. has been the driver
>to beat in Indy cars.  He had the most victories and poles this year,
>and (I think) led every race at some point!  It was primarily engine
>support system bugs that caused him to lose Indy and enough other
>races to cost the championship.  I think "dominating" is a fair
>statement.
>
You must have a strange definition for 'driver to beat'. I consider the
'driver to beat' the driver leading in the points. Bearing this in mind
it is interesting to note that Andretti lead in the points for all of
4 races during the three years you mentioned. What domination, 4 for 36.

90 - 91: Unser Jr. or Mears leads points
91 - 92: John Andretti, Mears, Rahal, or Michael Andretti leads points
92 - 93: Mostly Rahal leads points (can't remember who won first race)

Yeah, he won a lot of races during those three years, and yes his motor
did give out on him a lot (however, that is part of racing), but, when it
came time to bring home that #1 to his team, Andretti went 1 for 9
during his Indy Car career whilst a certain other driver did it three 
times during the same time span. 3 to 1, that is a big difference in
terms of domination.

>I may not like the Andrettis but I certainly respect their abilities
>and accomplishments.
>

Hey, don't get me wrong, I repect the Andretti's. During the last 2-3
years Andretti has been the *fastest* Indy car driver, but, outright
speed is only part of the equation. Being the fastest driver and not
bringing home the championship is more disappointment than domination.

> -- Chuck Fry  Chucko@charon.arc.nasa.gov  Chucko@westmark.stanford.edu
> 
Newsgroups: rec.autos.sport
From: geoff@hawkesbury.uws.EDU.AU (Geoff Russell)
Subject: Re: Mansell and Senna
Organization: University of Western Sydney, Hawkesbury
Date: Tue, 17 Nov 1992 05:58:41 GMT

> |a little close at a point that he had no chance to overtake), but on
> |further examination, it did look like Mansel either slowed too early or
> |slowed more than he had too.  I didn't hear Mansel say "I took that
> |corner exactly as I had every lap before and Senna just ran up the
> |back of me."  I think we can all remember when Patrese ran up the back
> |of Berger as he slowed to pit just how hard it is to react quickly when
> |someone in front of you does something you don't expect.  
> |

Our local sports coverage ( TCN 9 - the station who covered the GP in 
Australia) had an interview with Tim Schenken, Clerk of the Course at the 
Adelaide GP plus a slow motion analysis of racing lines and braking points 
done by Mansell in THAT corner in laps prior to thecrash with Senna. 

It was painfully clear that Mansell braked about 20 metres earlier than 
normal. Given the figures that were given to Tim Schenken by the Williams
team (I think they quoted a speed of around 200 km/h at the point of touch)
his summation (Schenken's) was "that's motor racing" - the cars were very
close at the time ala Patrese and Berger.

Schenken also said that Mansell stormed into the C of C office immediately
after the crash but left again without comment and without filing a protest
or complaint.

I guess only the drivers will ever know, they certainly will never convince
the spectators.

Geoff Russell,
University of Western Sydney,
Richmond, New South Wales,
AUSTRALIA
Newsgroups: rec.autos.sport
From: thos@suite.sw.oz.au (Thomas Cohen)
Subject: Wings on unsprung mass
Organization: Softway Pty Ltd
Date: 20 Nov 92 02:28:13 GMT

In <184266@pyramid.pyramid.com> danjones@pyrps5.eng.pyramid.com (Dan Jones) writes:


>Colin Chapman attempted to introduce the dual-chassis Lotus in the early '80s
>but it didn't make it by the rules guys.

At last, a chance to amplify something of Dan Jones'. ;^)

The Lotus 88 was in fact passed by the RAC scrutineers, but after
further protests the FISA people overruled them (or something).

So, the British stewards thought it was OK, but the Grande Constructors
(being Renault & Ferrari) had the ear of Balestre and his cohorts
and had it removed. De Angelis (I think it was he) said that it
handled like any other ground-effects car, but was much more 
comfortable to ride in.

regards,
-- 
thos cohen                  ,not a typo        |Softway Pty Ltd
"It's not so bad to be a lair but a conniving  |ACSnet:         thos@softway.oz
 egomaniac is not really that socially accept- |UUCP: ...!uunet!softway.oz!thos
 able."  SMH, 2 Nov 92, P. Keating vs J. Hewson|Internet:    thos@softway.oz.au