From: fayegh@cs.ubc.ca (David Fayegh)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.iranian
Subject: Spiral (Re: Gerd (Re: chAleh meydoon))
Date: 19 Nov 1992 04:41:28 -0800
Organization: Computer Science, University of B.C., Vancouver, B.C., Canada
NNTP-Posting-Host: cascade.cs.ubc.ca

bavafa@netcom.com (Hooshyar Naraghi) writes:
>amoojoon@ghahveh.khooneh.mash.yadollAh (Bacheh Morshed) writes:

|>>SalAm bar ahAliyeh chAleh meydoon,
|>salAm amoojoon!

|>[Discussion about chAleh meydoon deleted for brevity]

And a discussion among those sitting gerd-e meydoon begins ... 

PS: Aren't all `meydoon's `gerd'?  ... a `chAleh' can be `deep', as deep
as a `maydoon' can be `gerd'! [(cl), (cr), (cm), (c)] 

 Is that right, left, or middle? 
[(cl) Copy left, (cr) Copy right, (cm) Copy Middel, (c) --df ;-) for now :-)]

|>>.  .  .  . Many of our favorite things in life are also "gerd"; 
|>>most fruits are either in that shape or a slight modification of it (such 
|>>as "beyzi", "ostovAneh", etc.).
|>>Our own FArsi expressions utilize the concept in various ways. We do 
|>>"gerdeh ham Ayee"s, we say let's "doreh ham jam shaveem", or let's have a 
|>>"doreh". All those terms imply the same concept, "dAyereh". 
|>>.  .  . Seems to me that the smallest particles are also "gerd". Whatever I
|>> have read in the past about the structural units of molecules, cells, and 
|>>atoms also seem to have something to do with this concept. What is about 
|>>being "gerd" that is so unique?                            ^^^^^^^^^^^^^
|> ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Is `gerd-ness' really unique though? 
If so, then why do so many things appear so `gerd' :-)?

|>What a fascinating [(c) Mr. Spock, ~65] observation, amoojoon.  It seems
|>to me we humans are attracted to the concept of roundity [(c) bavafa, 92].
|>Everthing round is one phenomenon that we have adopted from nature.  You
|>already cited several natural objects (ie, not made my humankind) that
|>suggest that 'roundedness' has been there long time before we were created
|>on this planet.  But, this does not end the beauty of gerdally discussing!

talking about `gerd' things, I was just reminded of gerd-bAd  and gerd-Ab
Can gerd be used to derive a word for spiral ? ascending spiral? descending
spiral? multiscending spiral [(c) --df].

|>Let me share one view, if I may:  How about the concpet of perfection or
|>'kamAl?'  Never mind my FArsi doostAn, let's try to translate this word. :-)

Generally speaking, one must realize that one can not achieve perfection,
while, at the same time, trying to approximate it :-).
Anyone with a dictionary?

|>If we accept dAyereh is really the most perfect object that we know today,
|>then we might consequently ask what is the message hidden in things being
|>round, at least from our limited understanding of the universe - of course
|>if we believe that there ought to be a message.

In some ways, perfect mathematical `objects' such as a one-dimensional
point, a two dimensional line, circle, etc., a three dimensional surface, 
a more-than-three, multi-dimensional hypersurface, etc. may be 
viewed as ``ideal'' concepts that we can only approximate  in practice.
For example, we may mathematically 
define a ``point'' as an object without any length, width, or depth.
Similarly, we may define a line as the shortest distance between two
points without any width or depth. In reality, however, 
we can only approximate these ideal mathematical objects.
Independent of how hard we try,
by definition, we can never actually achieve the ideal, we can only
approximate it. The closer the approximation, the happier we seem ...

|>I say EQUALITY and UNITY.

These are ideal concepts that we can only approximate  ...
The problem seems to be that we don't even have an ideal concept
of `equality' and `unity' yet (but we are sure working on it :)

|>Now the trivial:  They say one of the FAQ's during an interview at the
|>Microsoft HQ is (I read it in a magazine article about Microsoft and Bill
|>Gates) "Why are sewer manholes on streets cicular and not square?"

personholes (or perhpas even better perchildholes :-)) are 3-D spirals!

|>PS.  Amoo when I took off my eyes from my monitor to look around (per your
|>suggestion), the first thing I saw was my football (ok, soccer) ball at
|>the corner.  'ajab!  An niz gerd ast.'

How is the following by khayyam for something circular :-)

engAr ke har che hast dar 'Alam neest
				pendAr ke har che neest dar 'Alam hast

spiral for now, --df