From: kocks@jessica.stanford.edu (Peter Kocks)
Subject: Re: specifically comparing NeXT with Mac...
Organization: Academic Information Resources
Date: Fri, 16 Oct 92 21:19:08 GMT

In article <1992Oct15.201625.10442@leland.Stanford.EDU> spagiola@frinext.stanford.edu writes:

>> 
>Agreed.  NeXT needs a cheaper low-end machine than they currently  
>offer, and are losing many potential sales because of it.  But bear  
>in mind that if IIsi-level performance fills your needs, then you  
>don't need a NeXT.  If your needs evolve to where you need IIci-level  

Considering the cheap prices of 486-PCs, the NeXT os can compete with
a the Mac mid range.  This will only become more of an advantage over
time.  486 prices, disk drives, and memory will all come down even
more of the next year.  Always have and always will.  Unfortunately,
most people only put dos or windows on the 486, both of which are very
poor compared to the Mac or the NeXT.  

What sets the NeXT apart from the Mac is that it is already being
ported to other cpus.  Apple and MS have this in their plans, but NeXT
is already doing it.  (Technically NeXT-486 is not out yet, but due in

>(everything you need is bundled) but does not require it.
>
>> I also just dont like Unix. I think its a bloated, arcane,
>> slightly over-the- hill OS. Yes, I know mach is supposed to
>> be a slimmer trimmer kernel, but the NeXT just doesnt seem as
>> speedy as id expect an 040 to be...
>> 

Yes unix is a pain.  But, it happens to be the os that a lot of high
end workstations use.  I am a scientist and I like to write programs
for science.  On the NeXT, I write my unix programs and run them in
the background.  I then transfer the programs to a various other
workstations recompile and off I go.  On the Mac (which I used to
have), it was pain because I had to put Mac specific code in to make
it multitask.  So, for the scientist I think NeXT offers a lot.  

>
>> I also dont like the gui on the NeXT. Dont get me wrong, its
>> a nice environment but I dont feel comfortable in it... Its
>> not all bad, and maybe Im really only dissatisfied with the
>> browser. It seems a little clumsy to me...

Different than the Mac, but still great.  Much better than Windows.
>
>> in favor of the NeXT ;) i do like some things: I like the
>> real time scrolling, proportional sliders, program dock,
>> display postscript is nice if slow, etc. unfortunately none
>> of these things makes you *alot* more productive. And while
>> Ive never developed on the NeXT, i love my think c.

Think c is great.  However, similar "point and shot" debuggers exist
on the NeXT.  You also get all the unix tools for programming -- very
nice.  But most of all, you get a fully object oriented environment
and getting more so every day.  Again being a scientist, I can quickly
throw together a full blown application to work on some problems I
have.  You CAN do similar kinds of things on the Mac, but they tend to
cost additional dollars and are not as robust.  For example, on the
next you can start a FORTRAN or Pascal or LISP or C program as a
separate process from you application and let your application (in its
own process) run the interface to your old FORTRAN program.  Very
easy.  Takes half a day to learn, but then you fly.  

Also, expect to see a lot of improved features on NeXT step objects
soon.  Since everything is object oriented, major improvements like
3Dkit happen fairly quickly on the NeXT.  On the Mac (although I
suspect everyone uses objects all the time) the os still has a lot of
non-object stuff in it.  Expect to see Applications become objects for
the user to manipulate within a year or two from NeXT.  Apple will
design an entirely new os to do this.

Lets talk speed.  While the Mac will be on the PowerPC in a couple of
years, (I know you all will say a year, but it will be two, if System
7 is any indication), the NeXT will be on the HP snake chip, the
motorola 88K, the 486 and future P5 and quite possibly the PowerPC and
RS6000.  This will give the NeXT speed advantages that will put the
Mac to shame.  Especially since the cpu market will be open, whereas
you will still have to buy your Mac from Apple.  EG. the Quadra is way
overpriced.  Apple of course could change this policy and maybe they
already have started to do this.  I hope they do.  Mac users are being
taken to the cleaner on hardware (of the high end machines).



Organization: Sophomore, Electrical and Computer Engineering, Carnegie Mellon, Pittsburgh, PA