HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: filfeit@rael.Tymnet.COM (Fil Feit)
Newsgroups: alt.politics.elections
Subject: Re: Dan Quayle on speed?
Date: 14 Oct 92 11:54:24 GMT
Reply-To: filfeit@rael.Tymnet.COM
Organization: Sun Microsystems

In article 18213@Princeton.EDU, glhewitt@phoenix.Princeton.EDU (Gary Livingston Hewitt) writes:
>I knew that DQ would be a hemmoraging asshole, but I couldn't predict
>how much of a hyperactive frat-boy jerk he would be.  Anyone who
>relentlessly changes the subject and then complains when Gore changes
>the subject -- wotta jerk.  I, for one, am glad that Gore didn't rise to
>DQ's idiotic bait -- the whole debate to me seemed like one enormous
>effort to avoid talking about anything substantive.
>
Latest from Vice President Quayle:
"Give a man a fish, and he'll fish for a day.  Teach a man to fish,
and he'll fish for a lifetime.  And he'll live for a lifetime."

>Why does someone turn off his hearing aid in the middle of a debate?
>Was that a joke about not wanting to hear the other participants, or am
>I reading too much?
>
Adm. Stockdale just wasn't paying attention.  Probably looking through his
notes for his closing statement.  A sad performance, since the question
(about negative campaigning) was custom made for the Perot campaign.

>Gary
>-- 

--f2
---------------------------
  "A plague on both their houses"
  --either Mercutio or George Bush's last words
From: bks@s27w007.pswfs.gov (Bradley K. Sherman)
Newsgroups: alt.politics.elections
Subject: Who is Orson Swindle?
Date: 13 Oct 1992 03:05:56 GMT
Organization: Committee to Impeach H. Ross Perot's Barber
Distribution: na
NNTP-Posting-Host: s27w007.pswfs.gov
Keywords: Stealth Republicans


Perot is once again "in play."  I would guess that he will show
a significant movement in the polls which will feed back through
the media resulting in a further "reactive" surge in the polls.

Is Stockdale going to be in the VP debate?  This could get
interesting!

----
    --Brad Sherman
Newsgroups: alt.politics.elections
From: veatch@cs.toronto.edu (Tim Veatch)
Subject: Date and Times of Debates wanted (... blinded in Canada)
Reply-To: veatch@cs.toronto.edu
Organization: University of Toronto
Distribution: na
Date: 14 Oct 92 07:04:50 GMT

Can someone send me the dates and times (central) of the remaining
presidential debates?

I didn't want to waste the bandwidth, but it has been too
frustrating trying to get the info here in Canada.  I've checked
a couple of TV listings, with no luck.

Here, the debates are only on cable (CNN), so I have to find a friend
who has cable and a vcr to tape them for me.  Then I'll watch them
at the library or something.

Also, can you let me know when Perot's `programs' are on?
From what I hear there are 3 in total, but each will be played 3 times.

Thanx in advance.

Newsgroups: alt.politics.elections
From: emmett@kpc.com (Emmett Kilgariff)
Subject: Re: Ross TV
Organization: Kubota Pacific Computer Corporation, Santa Clara, CA
Date: Fri, 9 Oct 1992 16:58:46 GMT

In article <1992Oct8.213553.13947@u.washington.edu> sieferme@u.washington.edu writes:
>Just heard on the radio that Ross Perot is changing the
>direction of this TV campaign.  Instead of airing the next
>two installments of his TV show, he is re-running the
>show that was on two nights ago.  This is in response
>to (he says) public demand.
>
	The Neilsen Ratings should prove this true or false. I heard
the ratings were very good.

>The first show consisted of HRP providing his analysis of
>the problems of debt/budget.  After the show was over,
>he was asked why he provided no solutions.  His explanation
>was that his three one-half hour shows were a series,
>and policy proposals would be appearing in the final
>two episodes.
>
	Correction: before the show aired, he had stated is was
part one of three shows, the first dealing with the problems.

>Now, we are apparently not going to see the final
>two episodes.  Makes you say "hmmm ...".
>
	Why do you say we're not going to see them? There's three
weeks till the election.

>Isn't it looking like this guy is just making this up
>as he goes along?  Does he have any idea what he is doing?
>It is easy to see why so many HRP supporters are getting
>very frustrated.
>
	In some ways, he probably is making it up as he goes. But the
first show didn't have anything new in it- it covered the same problems
he's been harping on since March. I suspect the other two shows will
also say nothing new - and just present the UWSA policies and try to 
sell them.

	Anyway, the second add was scheduled to run tonight, before
20/20. We'll see if it's a rerun or the new ones.

Newsgroups: alt.politics.elections,alt.politics.clinton
From: markb@cimage.com (Mark Bernstein)
Subject: Re: Raising taxes on the poor.
Organization: Cimage Corp, Ann Arbor, MI
X-Newsreader: Tin 1.1 PL5
Distribution: usa
Date: Thu, 8 Oct 92 15:31:28 GMT

Marc J Byrd (byrd@lucerne.rice.edu) wrote:
: I don't recall exactly how many times (2?) and by what amounts,
: but wasn't Clinton responsible for raising the taxes on GROCERIES
: in Arkansas?
: 
: Now, who's responsible for this?  Here's the opportunity for you
: Clinton supporters to DEMONSTRATE (prove with transcripts, etc)
: that Clinton was FORCED by his state legislature to go along
: with these taxes.
: 
: I really want to know whose idea this was, and what Clinton's response
: was!
: 
	Well, this doesn't answer you exactly, but here's my perspective:

	1) Arkansas is a poor state.  Despite the taxes Clinton has raised,
it still has one of the lowest tax burdens in the country.  Clinton did
push some tax hikes through as Governor, because the state needed the extra
revenue.  I have no problem with that.  (Also, the Arkansas state 
constitution requires a balanced budget, and Clinton adhered to that
requirement (not that he had a choice) for all 11 budgets he submitted.)

	2) As to *which* taxes he raised, he was again constrained by the
state constitution.  Raising sales taxes only required a simple majority
of the state legislature.  Several other taxes, including income taxes,
cannot be raised in Arkansas unless the raise is approved by a two-thirds
majority of both houses of the legislature.  Clinton couldn't get the
votes he needed to raise those, so he pushed through the raises he could
get.

	3) I have heard Clinton, on at least one occasion, defend a
particular tax increase by pointing out that polls at the time showed the
increase to be favored by a large majority of the Arkansas population.  No
one has ever accused him of "sneaking" a tax increase through.  My 
impression is that he's been reasonably careful about making sure that the
people he served understood what he was proposing, and why.  Never assume
that a tax increase is the work of some evil government out to screw the
people.  Study the context.

	4)  Groceries?  I don't know, it's possible.  Again, I'd like to
know the context.  Does anyone have the facts?  (I seem to vaguely recall
reading that he raised sales taxes in general, then later exempted 
groceries after people protested, but I may be wrong.)

Mark Bernstein
markb@cimage.com

Newsgroups: alt.politics.elections,talk.politics.misc
From: hillyard@lynx.msc.cornell.edu.UUCP (Sean Edward Hillyard,F7 Clark,50649,)
Subject: Re: Vice Shrub won (NOT!)
Originator: hillyard@msc2.msc.cornell.edu
Organization: Cornell-Materials-Science-Center
Date: Thu, 15 Oct 1992 05:10:07 GMT

From article <1992Oct15.030306.15834@news.columbia.edu>, by egl1@cunixf.cc.columbia.edu (Elizabeth G. Levy):
[...]
> 
> Perot also only re-entered the race recently.  As an ad consultant
> dryly noted, those ads he had took longer than a couple of weeks to
> make. 

However, didn't he have various ads made before he dropped out?  I recall
members of his staff upset because he wouldn't show them.  Its posible
they are the same.

SEH
From: glhewitt@phoenix.Princeton.EDU (Gary Livingston Hewitt)
Newsgroups: alt.politics.elections
Subject: Re: Sixteen more years
Date: 16 Oct 92 01:32:39 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: Princeton University
Originator: news@nimaster

In article <39565@sdcc12.ucsd.edu> cote@cs.ucsd.edu (Brad Cote) writes:
>
>What planet are you on? If Slick Willie gets in, there will be no such
>thing as limited government in economics. We will get massive,
>federally mandated heath care rationing, massive spending on pork
>barrel (oops, I mean 'investment') spending, massive government
>programs for job retraining, and to top it off, a Japanese style
>government directed industrial policy, ala MITI.

Wow, now wasn't that a nicely-programmed response.  Maybe you can go work
for Mary Matalin and Dan Quayle.  Let's look at this again, though, and
maybe I can help you with something.

(1) "massive, federally mandated health care rationing."
Hmmmmm.  What the hell does that mean?  let's drop out the middle
adjectives: "massive rationing."  So we'll spend lots of money on
rationing?  Oh, I get it -- the rationing will be very big.  Yeah,
that's it.  Get a clue -- the only way to reduce health costs when no
one presently has *any* incentive to control costs is to have a program.
What do you suggest?  More better private insurance?  I've had my fill
of that, thanks. 

(2) "massive spending on pork barrel spending."  Regardless (should I
say "irregardless," so you'll understand?) of the redundancy, you'll
notice that Mr. George Herbert Pork Bush can't keep his hands out of the
cookie jar, either.  Again, the question is whether government spending
is productive or a waste -- I think Clinton knows the difference.
Should we build an Air Force Base that we should close anyway, to defend
us from those nasty Cubans? (Or those nasty drugs?)  Or perhaps maybe we
could build a road that could help productivity....

Same point on retraining and MITI.  You might notice that Americans have
sent their manufacturing jobs overseas, mostly because other countries
have policies to make manufacturing work.  As opposed to us...

Gary
-- 
  ++====+========+==========+=======+===++
  ||    |    Gary| L. Hewitt|       |   ||  HELP!  I've been imprisoned
  || glh|ewitt@ph|oenix.prin|ceton.e|du ||  by my .signature!  HELP!
  ++====+========+==========+=======+===++
From: isbell@ai.mit.edu (Charles L Isbell)
Newsgroups: alt.politics.elections
Subject: Re: GEORGE BUSH, STOP THE RED-BAITING
Date: 13 Oct 92 14:25:45 GMT
	<1992Oct8.202316.4532@u.washington.edu>
	<1992Oct12.150446.14325@anasazi.com>
Organization: MIT Artificial Intelligence Laboratory
In-reply-to: john@anasazi.com's message of 12 Oct 92 15:04:46 GMT

john@anasazi.com (John R. Moore) writes:
|]What really saddened me about GHWB's performance last night
|]was the implications of his remarks.  He criticized Clinton
|]for organizing anit-war rallies overseas, and attacking and
|]protesting against his country while living in Europe.
|]
|]Most of us who participated in anti-war protests were
|]not attacking America, nor were we in any way traitorous.

|Nor were you in a foreign country. THAT is the issue (as Bush has clearly
|stated). If you want to protest US policy in the US, fine, go to it and
|there's nothing wrong with it. When you take it overseas, during the middle
|of a war, it is wrong and goes against 200 years of American tradition.
|It's the same principle as a family dispute... you don't do it in the
|shopping mall.

Come on, this country was founded by people who were basically
protesting on foreign soil.

In any case, are you willing to condemn the Chinese students who
protested against China here int he USA during the Tienenaman Sq
thing?  How about the Germans who protested Nazi Germany during WWII?

Note for the knee-jerkers:  I am not equating America & Vietnam to
Nazi Germany.  The salient issue is the assertion that "when you take
it overseas, during the middle of a war, it is wrong".
--
Peace.
         "It's rural America.  It's where I came from.  
          We always refer to ourselves as real America.  
          Rural America, real America, real, real, America."
                      -- Vice President Dan Quayle
                                   -\--/-
    Don't just adopt opinions     |  \/  |       Some of you are homeboys
          develop them.           |  /\  | but only I am The Homeboy From hell
                                   -/--\-

Newsgroups: alt.politics.elections,alt.politics.bush,alt.politics.clinton,alt.politics.perot,talk.politics.misc
From: anwar+@cs.cmu.edu (Anwar Mohammed)
Newsgroups: alt.politics.elections,alt.politics.bush,alt.politics.clinton,alt.politics.perot
Subject: Re: Vice Shrub won
Date: 15 Oct 92 04:55:57 GMT
Organization: School of Computer Science, Carnegie Mellon

In article <1bi2lfINNij6@fido.asd.sgi.com> root@holodeck.csd.sgi.com (Super-User) writes:
>Cessna@kn5f.jsc.nasa.gov (Mark T. Evert) said..
>>
>>Gore did vote for the Carribean Basin Initiative according to his own 
>>campaign manager.  To be fair, Quayle voted for it in 1983, but it was a 
>>somewhat different program back then and had wide Democratic support.  So 
>>Gore effectively lied.  (Quayle was never asked if he voted for it.)
>
> Not really.  Senator Gore has never supported the Caribbean Basin
> Initiative.  In December 1982, Gore voted against the program.  It
> passed 260-142 (house).  In July 1983 Gore opposed it again.  It 
> passed 289-129 (house).  
>
> So you might be talking about the Customs and Trade Act, which had
> proposals similar to the Carribean Basin Initiative, but focused
> on legislation to increase trade to Hungary, a ban on the export of 
> logs from federal lands; the reauthorization of the office of the 
> United States Trade Representative and a few other U.S. trade programs, 
> including CBI programs.  The Customs and Trade Act passed the Senate 92-0.

Mona Charen on Crossfire this evening revealed that not only did Gore 
vote for CBI in the context of this broader trade act in 1990
(he never tried to amend the bill to get rid of it either), but he had
also voted for it in 1986 in a more narrowly defined bill.  So it appears
that Gore and his operatives have a very selective memory when it comes
to his voting record.

>
>Allan

-anwar


-- 
Anwar Mohammed                FREE       Graduate Student
anwar+@cs.cmu.edu              THE       School of Computer Science
Voice: +1 412 268 3043     KUWAITI       Carnegie-Mellon University
Fax:   +1 412 681 5739        POWS       Pittsburgh, PA  15213-3890
Newsgroups: alt.politics.elections,talk.politics.misc
From: thf2@ellis.uchicago.edu (Citecheck Hell)
Subject: Re: Pres. Debate Drinking Game Rules!
Reply-To: thf2@midway.uchicago.edu
Organization: University of Chicago Computing Organizations
Date: Tue, 13 Oct 1992 04:03:07 GMT

In article <1bd8t5INNn0u@matt.ksu.ksu.edu> strat@matt.ksu.ksu.edu (Steve Davis) writes:
>			  C L I N T O N :
>			  ---------------
> 
>Says "conservative", "invest", "trickle-down", "change", "hope",
>"supply-side", "fair" (or fairness).
> 
>Mentions his success as an Arkansas Governor, former presidents
>Hoover or Nixon.

Mentions Kennedy.

>Brings up a statistic "out of the air."

Has an anecdote about a "common person" whose location and situation
is described, but not their name.

>The first person to notice if Clinton touches his hair for any
>reason can make everyone else playing the drinking game take five
>drinks.

Don't forget the shaking of the left fist.

>			     B U S H :
>			     ---------
> 
>Says "liberal", "tax and spend" (or spend-and-tax), "prudent", "not
>going to do it" (any variation), "trust", "we are the United States
>of America" (or any variation thereof), "cold war".

"coming apart at the seams"; "commander in chief"; "children" and
"threat of nuclear war" and "sleep" in the same sentence.

Mentions "Dukakis" and "Mondale" in the same sentence.

>Mentions his status as a war veteran, congressional scandals, the
>"new congress", former president Truman.

Reads a letter from a family member of a dead Panama or Gulf veteran.

>Touches his nose for any reason (double drinks if he's talking
>about drugs).

>			    P E R O T :
>			    -----------
> 
>Says "foreign lobbyist", "special interest".

"action"; "plan"; "ninety days"

>Tells an anecdote.

It has to be folksy.  Everyone has anecdotes.

>Makes reference to his own physical appearance.
> 
>Does something (like putting on or taking off) with his glasses.
> 
>Defines a problem when asked how he would solve it.

Chuckles audibly when Bush says something stupid.

---
Don't forget the VP debates:

GORE:
Mentions a baseball game at Memorial Stadium.

QUAYLE:
Bobs his Adam's apple.
Makes a joke about his spelling that falls completely flat.
Repeats the lie about 70% of the world's lawyers.

STOCKDALE:
Who?

-- 
ted frank | thf2@midway.uchicago.edu 
also at quibeaux@uchicago.edu | standard disclaimers
the university of chicago law school, chicago, illinois 60637
ajax crypto-analyzer -- warning! remove all chicken bones first
From: de5@ORNL.GOV (Dave Sill)
Newsgroups: alt.politics.elections
Subject: Re: Thoughts on the First Debate
Date: 12 Oct 92 17:11:23 GMT
Organization: Oak Ridge National Lab, Oak Ridge, TN

In article <1bapvhINNebl@overload.lbl.gov>, bks@s27w007.pswfs.gov (Bradley K. Sherman) writes:
>
>3) If Clinton uses the word "change" or Bush says "tax and spend"
>one more time they should lose half their remaining time.

Hey, someone needs to whup up a "Debate '92 Drinking Game".  :-)

-- 
Dave Sill (de5@ornl.gov)           For every Bill Joy there is a Kirk McKusick.
Martin Marietta Energy Systems     For every Bill Gates there is a Richard
Workstation Support                Stallman.                     --Paul Graham
Xref: sparky alt.politics.elections:17256 alt.politics.perot:2260 alt.politics.bush:9455 alt.politics.clinton:10912 talk.politics.misc:52363
From: dtiberio@csws20.ic.sunysb.edu (David Tiberio)
Newsgroups: alt.politics.elections,alt.politics.perot,alt.politics.bush,alt.politics.clinton,talk.politics.misc
Subject: Re: Polls on VP Debate
Date: 16 Oct 92 00:33:05 GMT
Organization: State University of New York at Stony Brook

In article <1bivn6INNa39@agate.berkeley.edu> bks@alfa.berkeley.edu (Bradley K. Sherman) writes:
>Who won the debate?
>
>      Gore  Quayle Stockdale    Sample 
>NBC    50     32      2          623 adults
>ABC    38     35      7          500 adults
>

	I noticed when I first heard this that Gore has a lead of 12 points
over Gore. And to think, STATISTICALLY, he can only be ahead of himself by
3.5 - 4 points....

	Keep that in mind next time you think these polls are accurate. Now
when Stockdale wins, you will be crying. :)


-- 
      Amiga Graphics Association BBS (516) 473-6351  24 HRS, 14.4k baud
PEROT PEROT PEROT PEROT PEROT PEROT PEROT PEROT PEROT PEROT PEROT PEROT PEROT
    "I don't have any experience in running up a 4 trillion dollar debt."
From: kgirodias@azcc.arizona.edu
Newsgroups: alt.politics.elections
Subject: Re: Page 304?  (VP Debate, Quayle response)
Date: 14 Oct 92 22:26:59 GMT
Organization: University of Arizona UNIX Users Group

In article <1992Oct14.164257.16303@mercury.cair.du.edu>, mwasserm@diana.cair.du.edu (MARC Y. WASSERMAN) writes:
> During the vice-presidential debates last night,
> Quayle said that Gore had indeed made a pledge
> to raise taxes to help one part of the enviromnet
> in the United States.  Gore insisted that wasn't
> true and Quayle said it was, that it was on Page
> 304 in Gore's book "Earth in the Balance".
> Not having this book, could somebody please tell
> me what is on page 304?  Is Quayle correct on
> this?
> 
> Overall, I was suprised by Quayle's performance.
> Rhetorically, I think he may have one by a bit.
> Still, Gore just emanated confidence and assuredness
> and I think overall that people will see him (and Clinton)
> as the winner.  Though I won't vote for his party,
> I do think Quayle has helped his image somewhat.  
> 
> Marc Wasserman
> mwasserm@diana.cair.du.edu
> 
> 

 I was also interested in this and surprised not to see more talk of it.
Also the vote on the Caribbean basin, how did Gore vote. One of them will
look very foolish when we find out how Gore voted. Let me guess, he didn't
vote.

Ken
Newsgroups: alt.politics.elections
From: de5@ORNL.GOV (Dave Sill)
Subject: Re: How to feel GREAT about voting!
Organization: Oak Ridge National Lab, Oak Ridge, TN
Date: Wed, 14 Oct 1992 14:10:49 GMT

I like it!  But to really cancel someone else's vote you'd have to be in the
same district, or at least the same state, and you'd have to vote for each of
the other candidates, not just one of them.

But don't let that stop you.  :-)  I'm all for anything that'll get folks to
the polls.

-- 
Dave Sill (de5@ornl.gov)           For every Bill Joy there is a Kirk McKusick.
Martin Marietta Energy Systems     For every Bill Gates there is a Richard
Workstation Support                Stallman.                     --Paul Graham
Xref: sparky alt.politics.elections:17236 alt.folklore.urban:25843
From: thf2@ellis.uchicago.edu (Citecheck Hell)
Newsgroups: alt.politics.elections,alt.folklore.urban
Subject: Re: Hello three way racing:)
Keywords: As a song says it is not over till its over;
Date: 16 Oct 92 06:16:45 GMT
Reply-To: thf2@midway.uchicago.edu
Organization: University of Chicago Computing Organizations

In article <Bw6t2M.3sE@news.udel.edu> goguenm@ravel.udel.edu (Matthew L Goguen) writes:
>With this thought I leave you to the election process, Mark Twain once
>said:"There are lies, damn lies and statistics."

I think it was Disraeli.  Maybe Gladstone.

Ted "chyeah, like you can't lie with words instead of numbers" Frank
-- 
ted frank | thf2@midway.uchicago.edu 
also at quibeaux@uchicago.edu | standard disclaimers
the university of chicago law school, chicago, illinois 60637
ajax crypto-analyzer -- warning! remove all chicken bones first
Newsgroups: alt.politics.elections,talk.politics.misc,alt.conspiracy
From: jrm@cbnews.cb.att.com (john.r.miller)
Subject: Re: Gore an Imposter!
Organization: AT&T
Distribution: usa
Date: Thu, 15 Oct 1992 15:43:49 GMT
Followup-To: alt.conspiracy

In article <1birqmINN8k1@matt.ksu.ksu.edu>, strat@matt.ksu.ksu.edu (Steve Davis) writes:
> labiche@crchh561.BNR.CA (Maurice LaBiche) writes:
> 
> >A few final comments:
> >Gore seems like he went to the Robert Tilton school of how to look
> >schmaltzy on TV.
> 
> Ah, so you've noticed.  We all know that much of PMRC's money came
> from religious right front organizations.  I think Gore is an
> imposter!  He's really a fundie!
> 
> Stratocaster
> -- 
> 	   Steve Davis (I'm a student, not a spokesperson!)

Nope, not a fundie -- if you look real close at his shirt, you can see
a large "S" underneath. Yes folks, he can leap over tall buildings in
a single bound.

				John Miller, Columbus, OH.
Organization: Doctoral student, Biology, Carnegie Mellon, Pittsburgh, PA