HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: julie@eddie.jpl.nasa.gov (Julie Kangas)
Subject: Re: Choice for men: moving beyond anti-feminism
Organization: Jet Propulsion Laboratory, Pasadena, CA
Date: Thu, 1 Oct 1992 14:27:23 GMT

In article <1992Sep30.230820.1@ulkyvx.louisville.edu> rtsumn01@ulkyvx.louisville.edu writes:
>In article <1992Sep30.180518.12856@microsoft.com>, ericbr@microsoft.com (Eric Brown) writes:
>> In article <sem_QgO00YV9M4zfEh@andrew.cmu.edu> rs87+@andrew.cmu.edu (Rebecca Ann Stallings) writes:
>>>   That's not the point the first poster was trying to make.  In the
>>>1960s, pharmaceutical companies went ahead and released the Pill even
>>>though it was rather dangerous.  They've made modifications since, but
>>>some brands and formulations still have serious side effects.  By
>>>contrast, it seems that companies are unwilling to release a male pill
>>>until it's absolutely perfect, not wanting to inconvenience or endanger
>>>men.
>> 
>> Can you name this hypothetical male pill?  All the ones I've heard of cause
>> irreversible sterility in a substantial minority of those who take it (e.g., 
>> gossypol).  The Pill, while it _does_ have quite a few nasty side effects,
>> does not have irreversible side effects of any kind.  (At least, I've never
>> heard about the Pill causing sterility or death.)
>> 
>> 
>> Eric
>
>The Pill made me so depressed I nearly killed myself. I'd call that pretty
>damned permanent.
>
>I can't believe the way doctors hand the damned stuff out like candy.

They also try to prescribe it for anyone having severe menstral cramps.
After looking at the side effects (acne, water retention, depression,
*worse* cramps, strokes, death (yes it can cause death)) I swore
never to take it.  I just don't think it's worth the risk.  Some of
these side effects are pretty serious.

Julie
#include "std_disclaimer.h"
#include "witty_sig.h"
Xref: sparky soc.men:17171 alt.sex:31470 alt.feminism:1838
From: peri@cco.caltech.edu (Michal Leah Peri)
Newsgroups: soc.men,alt.sex,alt.feminism
Subject: Re: Choice for men: moving beyond anti-feminism
Date: 1 Oct 1992 00:44:38 GMT
Organization: California Institute of Technology, Pasadena
NNTP-Posting-Host: sandman.caltech.edu

ericbr@microsoft.com (Eric Brown) writes:

>The Pill, while it _does_ have quite a few nasty side effects,
>does not have irreversible side effects of any kind.  (At least, I've never
>heard about the Pill causing sterility or death.)


>Eric

Eric must think strokes are reversible.

							--  M.
Xref: sparky soc.men:17072 soc.women:17154
From: cgates@mitre.org (Curt Gates)
Newsgroups: soc.men,soc.women
Subject: Re: [Pet Peeves] What irritates you or your partner?
Date: 29 Sep 92 17:33:00 GMT
Organization: The MITRE Corporation

In article <1992Sep29.145124.19856@gdr.bath.ac.uk> ccsmh@gdr.bath.ac.uk 
(Mark Harding) writes:
> I have recenetly moved in with my girlfriend and have started to discover
> that she, to me at least, seems annoyed at things I think are trivial.

Clue #1:  You moved into *her* place. Comprende? 
Xref: sparky soc.men:17185 soc.women:17246 soc.singles:26829
From: markh@csd4.csd.uwm.edu (Mark)
Newsgroups: soc.men,soc.women,soc.singles
Subject: Re: Book Rec.: _Bodies: Overcoming the Tyranny of Perfection_
Date: 1 Oct 1992 11:27:44 GMT
Organization: Computing Services Division, University of Wisconsin - Milwaukee
NNTP-Posting-Host: 129.89.7.4

In article <1acs1tINNmkj@uwm.edu> markh@csd4.csd.uwm.edu (Mark) writes:
>I love to cook my first meal of the day.  Two eggs, 5 sausages, 3 slices of
>toast (perhaps with cinnamon), a bowl of cereal, maybe warm cereal, a cup or
>two of coffee, a glass of milk (uncooked), and maybe an orange and a pop tart
>or two.
>
>It takes about 10 minutes, including the time for washing dishes (both before
>and after).

In article <1992Sep30.215622.10175@eecs.nwu.edu> carol@eecs.nwu.edu (Carol Surma) writes:
>Wow!  Breakfast is my favorite meal, but somehow this quantity boggles the
>mind!   Do you take a short nap at about 10:00 a.m.? |-)

I get up at any time between 6 am (today) and 2 pm (yesterday)
and fall asleep any time between 10 pm (last night) and 6 am (yesterday).
My rhythm is ergodic.

>			Carol "the unknown" Surma
>			EECS Department
>			Northwestern University
>			carol@eecs.nwu.edu

A short 60 mile train ride North and you could get a breakfast treat upon
arrival at your ultimate destination.

------------------------------------------------------------
The Brewers will win the Division with a 14% probability.
Newsgroups: soc.men
From: jsw@cray.com (Jon S. Wood)
Subject: Re: Choice for men: moving beyond anti-feminism
Organization: Cray Research, Inc.
Date: 29 Sep 92 09:20:21 CDT

In article <BvBq2J.58D.2@cs.cmu.edu> garvin+@cs.cmu.edu (Susan Garvin) writes:
>In article <BvAvDI.Huv@cs.psu.edu> beaver@castor.cs.psu.edu (Don Beaver) writes:
>
>>You're off topic, O Wise One (a term of endearment or respect, I hope),
>>but you ought to have noticed that most of Pennsylvania's restrictions 
>>were struck down as "undue burden."
>
>Fine, she was off-topic.  You're just plain wrong.
>
>One of the restrictions in Pennsylvania's Abortion Control Act
>was struck down as an undue burden.  (That was husband notification.)
>All of the others were upheld.
>
>Susan


   Why is notifying the husband an undue burden when the state
of Wisconsin demands spousal notification for loans? Double 
standard? 

 I'm not married, so it gives me great pleasure when I scratch
over that part of the form requiring a spousal signature by
writing, 

         Married?  Surely you jest!

It also is nice to see the loan officer at the bank react. She
turns red in the cheeks, kinda cute.


Newsgroups: soc.men
From: schultz@unixg.ubc.ca (Stewart Schultz)
Subject: Re: Music Suggestions
Organization: University of British Columbia, Vancouver, B.C., Canada
Date: Sun, 27 Sep 1992 22:10:07 GMT

Off the top of my head (an interesting exercise, BTW):

Fatherhood--
Isn't She Wonderful, Stevie Wonder (long version)
Beautiful Boy, John Lennon

Child custody--
Memphis ('Long distance information....')
Daddy Don't you Walk so Fast

Suicide--
Yer Blues, Beatles

Sex--
Let's Get it On, Marvin Gaye
Many bluesmen, e.g. Memphis Slim (though un-PC, he's hilarious)

War, vets' experience--
Gettin Ahead [I think], Stevie Wonder
What's Goin On?, Marvin Gaye

Work, homelessness--
Roll around Heaven all Day [I think], Ray Charles
Working Class Hero, John Lennon
Workin Life, Springsteen
Not Feelin it Anymore, Van Morrison
Professional Jealousy, Van Morrison
Some Peace of Mind, Van Morrison
Hit the Road, Jack, Ray Charles
Sittin on the Dock of the Bay, Otis Redding

Black men, inner city--
Just Enough for the City [I think], Stevie Wonder


That's a start, anyway.

-S. Schultz
Xref: sparky soc.men:17041 soc.women:17132 soc.singles:26634
From: Bathsheba.Grossman@bbs.oit.unc.edu (Bathsheba Grossman)
Newsgroups: soc.men,soc.women,soc.singles
Subject: Re: Book Rec.: _Bodies: Overcoming the Tyranny of Perfection_
Date: 29 Sep 92 04:57:50 GMT
Organization: Extended Bulletin Board Service

In article <0s_p3rd.sheaffer@netcom.com> sheaffer@netcom.com (Robert Sheaffer) writes:
>In article <1992Sep28.035904.21232@cs.ucla.edu> coleman@rocky.cs.ucla.edu (Mike Coleman) writes:
>>   Christine, for instance, the corporate vice-president, made
>>   it very clear she has no interest in "pale hairless guys who
>>   make great pasta," whom she calls "newts."  
..
>>   Dealing with a man who has a real female side is
>>   unsettling."
>
>I think that just about every woman wants to be with a man who is "more
>male" than she is. However, the big problem for many modern women is:
>having moved so far in the direction of "maleness" herself, the number
>of men noticeably "more male" than her is unfortunately rather small. 

Actually, most of them have those Reverend Steely Scepters of Eternal
Y-Chromosome Power, which decide the issue conclusively in my limited mind.

I say, bring on the newts!  They've all got 'em, and someone around here had
better get in touch with their femininity or I'll never again eat anything
but lunchmeat ends on day-old bread.  This survey plainly left out all the
*real women, who don't bother to reinforce their sex-role-play by taking
part in studies about it, and are totally comfy switch-hitting.

People I know who are making their own way agree (upon inquisition) that
they could for sure use a wife. Big muscles and important hair are fine,
but I'll settle for any kind of genderblender who gives my welfare some
priority.  What I can't use is a sexually retarded person, stuck in
some fantasy male role, who'll expect me to put their comfort ahead of my
own work, in the guise of respecting my femininity.

(My work, you should know, is so vital to the continuance and advancement of
the human race that I obviously ought to have a support system - hint hint.)

-Sheba
"Freedom from choice is what you want.
Freedom of choice is what you've got."		-DEVO

--
   The opinions expressed are not necessarily those of the University of
     North Carolina at Chapel Hill, the Campus Office for Information
        Technology, or the Experimental Bulletin Board Service.
           internet:  bbs.oit.unc.edu or 152.2.22.80
From: wrat@unisql.UUCP (wharfie)
Newsgroups: soc.men
Subject: use condoms or die!!
Date: 5 Oct 92 16:25:31 GMT
Reply-To: wrat@unisql.UUCP (wharfie)
Organization: UniSQL, Inc., Austin, Texas, USA

In article <1akovkINNbmr@gap.caltech.edu> peri@cco.caltech.edu (Michal Leah Peri) writes:
>But my point is that there is *always* a risk. "Trust" is poor disease 
>prevention!

	Listen, if I told my wife that we'd have to start using condoms
because "trust is poor disease prevention" and I was afraid she'd give me
a disease dying of AIDS'd be the last thing I'd have to worry about...

	One of the things about protecting yourself is that any form of
armor distances you that much from the pleasures of life, and one of the
pleasures of marriage is that you can trust your life to your partner. 
Should I hire a food taster in case she's lying about never having poisoned
anyone before?
								the wharf rat
Xref: sparky soc.men:17389 alt.child-support:3424 alt.politics.clinton:8697
From: dgross@zeus.calpoly.edu (Dave Gross)
Newsgroups: soc.men,alt.child-support,alt.politics.clinton
Subject: Expansion of the Bill Clinton quote regarding child support
Date: 6 Oct 92 21:48:05 GMT
Organization: Manumission:  The Campus Men's Forum

In article <1992Oct6.180827.8764@Warren.MENTORG.COM> tal@Warren.MENTORG.COM (Tom Limoncelli) writes:
>Clinton has only talked about "child support".  Any national effort to
>enforce payment would be equally applied to both men and women.

	"And I know how awful it is for a kid to grow up knowing
	 that somewhere out there, there is some father who
	 abandoned her or him.  I just -- it infuriates me.  And
	 so, do I think we ought to have a Draconian system of
	 national child support enforcement?  I sure do.  I
	 really believe that.  I do."

		-- An extended version of the previously posted
		   quote, in which Bill Clinton refers to children
		   as "her or him" but deadbeat parents as "father."
-- 
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- dgross@polyslo.CalPoly.EDU -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
"In the U.S., at a crucial early stage, the scales of debate were tilted
 decicsively away from the evil of gender (roles, stereotypes) to the gender
 of evil (men)." 				--Dan Dervin
Newsgroups: soc.men
From: mec6@quads.uchicago.edu (Rini Clarkberg)
Subject: Re: Choice for men: moving beyond anti-feminism
Reply-To: mec6@midway.uchicago.edu
Organization: University of Chicago Computing Organizations
Date: Sun, 4 Oct 1992 18:42:50 GMT

mxsst1+@pitt.edu (Michael   Stroucken) writes:
>How about this to control human population: Every woman, who has had one
>child, will have her tubes tied. Unlike male sterilization, where there's
>a possible change in ejaculate (with psychological side effects), females
>will experience no change in sexuality, and can fornicate to her hearts 
>content

Sounds hideously fascistic to me.  What's your point?
Xref: sparky soc.men:17145 soc.women:17221 soc.singles:26759
From: markh@csd4.csd.uwm.edu (Mark)
Newsgroups: soc.men,soc.women,soc.singles
Subject: Re: Book Rec.: _Bodies: Overcoming the Tyranny of Perfection_
Date: 30 Sep 1992 18:35:41 GMT
Organization: Computing Services Division, University of Wisconsin - Milwaukee
NNTP-Posting-Host: 129.89.7.4

In article <1992Sep30.174714.2900@mnemosyne.cs.du.edu> tlode@nyx.cs.du.edu (trygve lode) writes:
>Cooking is a lot of fun, though--it's just another venue where one can
>explore the range and variety of sensual experience. 

I love to cook my first meal of the day.  Two eggs, 5 sausages, 3 slices of
toast (perhaps with cinnamon), a bowl of cereal, maybe warm cereal, a cup or
two of coffee, a glass of milk (uncooked), and maybe an orange and a pop tart
or two.

It takes about 10 minutes, including the time for washing dishes (both before
and after).
Xref: sparky soc.men:17385 soc.women:17419 soc.singles:27089
From: marcia@virga.ucar.edu (Marcia Politovich)
Newsgroups: soc.men,soc.women,soc.singles
Subject: Re: Book Rec.: _Bodies: Overcoming the Tyranny of Perfection_
Date: 6 Oct 92 18:29:12 GMT
Organization: Research Applications Program/NCAR, Boulder, CO

In article <2611@tymix.Tymnet.COM> baba@Tymnet.com (Duane Hentrich) writes:
>ar.ucar.edu>
>Sender: usenet@tymix.Tymnet.COM
>Followup-To: soc.men
>Organization: BT North America, San Jose CA.
>Lines: 17
>Nntp-Posting-Host: samadhi
>
>In article <1992Oct6.170529.11643@ncar.ucar.edu>, marcia@virga.ucar.edu (Marcia Politovich) writes:
>|>  Hmm, I thought the four food groups were:
>|>    Caffeine
>|>    Sugar
>|>    Fat
>|>    Alcohol 
>|> 
>|>  Which makes Irish Coffee the perfect food   :^)
>
>Yuck! Coffee sucks. The perfect food, even by your standards is obviously
>a Rum & Coke Float.
>
 Hey, great recipe swap!  Thanks!
 -- mkp again.

>
Newsgroups: soc.men
From: julie@eddie.jpl.nasa.gov (Julie Kangas)
Subject: Re: Value of Womens' Lives (was: _Backlash_)
Organization: Jet Propulsion Laboratory, Pasadena, CA
Date: Mon, 28 Sep 1992 14:38:32 GMT

In article <717487825@lear.cs.duke.edu> gazit@cs.duke.edu (Hillel) writes:
>In article <1992Sep25.150951.17523@mahendo.jpl.nasa.gov> 
>julie@eddie.jpl.nasa.gov (Julie Kangas) writes:
>
>>This may sound it, but I'm not bitter. I just want women to be
>>able to rejoin the human race.  To get off the pedestal and
>
>Will you give your priority in divorce and custody for that?
Yes.  Men should not be automatically punished in divorce
cases.
>
>Will you give your priority for a life boat for that?
Yes.  Why should my sex have anything to do with it?
>
>Will you give men some choice in a case of unwanted pregnancy for that?
Not in the case of rape.  In other instances it's a little trickier,
but remember, it is the woman's body.  Too bad the technology to
transfer a fetus to a man's body doesn't exist.  If the man
wants the child and the woman doesn't he should be prepared to
(1)support her for the pregnancy and (2) care for the child 
himself afterwards.

To ask a related question.  Suppose a man has a benign tumor in
the prostrate.  It's big and uncomfortable.  He wants it removed
but his wife or SO doesn't.  Who gets the final choice?

Not a great analogy I'll admit.  But somewhere the rights of
the individual's body comes in.  Now, if they had signed
a contract to produce a child before they had sex.....

I would feel the same if a man wanted a vasectomy and his
wife didn't.  Unless they signed a contract, it really comes
down to his choice.

>
>Will you give your affirmative action priorities for that?
Yes.  I would be very insulted to think that I was hired only
to meet some quota.  
>
>Will you be willing to give up your status as draft exempt for that?
A little too old for it to apply, but yes anyway.  And yes, women
should be placed in combat.  
>
>(These are not rhetorical questions.)

Julie
#include "std_disclaimer.h"
#include "witty_sig.h"


Xref: sparky soc.men:17129 soc.women:17207
From: beaver@castor.cs.psu.edu (Don Beaver)
Subject: Re: Amy Fischer: The Circus Continues
Date: Mon, 28 Sep 1992 20:48:41 GMT

In article <1992Sep28.181722.602@ads.com> charleen@ADS.COM (Charleen Bunjiovianna) writes:
>In article <Bv77qB.B7y@cs.psu.edu> beaver@castor.cs.psu.edu (Don Beaver) writes:
>>
>>(And no, I don't believe this is a disparagement of rape concerns, 
>>which are very serious, but it is a disparagement of the unreasonable
>>movement to redefine "rape" as "harassment," which itself detracts 
>>from the seriousness of rape.)
>
>I think what you actually meant to say was:
>
>...redefine "harassment" to be included in "rape".

Redefining "rape" to include "harassment" has the same logical effect as
redefining "rape" as "harassment," since rape is a subset of harassment.


>You don't mean that a woman who has been raped has, in reality, simply
>been harassed.

You see my point precisely:  expanding the definition of "rape"
weakens the meaning of "rape" in undesired ways.

Don
-- 
beaver@cs.psu.edu                       Opinions from the PC-challenged
Newsgroups: soc.men
From: wrat@unisql.UUCP (wharfie)
Newsgroups: soc.men
Subject: If his dick offends thee, cut it off?
Date: 1 Oct 92 15:52:51 GMT
Reply-To: wrat@unisql.UUCP (wharfie)
Organization: UniSQL, Inc., Austin, Texas, USA

In article <1992Sep30.224237.21257@unixg.ubc.ca> schultz@unixg.ubc.ca (Stewart Schultz) writes:
>penile amputations in the U.S. each year, and that most of these
>occur during domestic disputes.  The gist of the story was that

	To me, the interesting part of this is that the choice of target
indicates that these incidents are probably not self-defense but that the
attacks are intended to cause pain and cripple the target.  
Xref: sparky soc.men:17164 alt.dads-rights:2405 alt.abortion.inequity:4158
From: kolassa@bio1.bst.rochester.edu (John Kolassa)
Newsgroups: soc.men,alt.child-support,alt.politics.clinton
Subject: Re: Recent Bill Clinton quote regarding child support
Date: 6 Oct 92 02:02:05 GMT
Reply-To: kolassa@bio1.bst.rochester.edu (John Kolassa)
Organization: University of Rochester, Rochester NY

In article <1992Oct6.011133.14186@Warren.MENTORG.COM>, tal@Warren.MENTORG.COM (Tom Limoncelli) writes:

>"I know how awful it is for a kid to grow up knowing that somewhere out there,
>there is some father who abandoned her or him.  I just -- it infuriates me.
>And so, do I think we ought to have a Draconian system of national child
>support enforcement?  I sure do.  I really believe that.  I do."
>
>     -- Bill Clinton, in an interview with Christopher Matthews of
>        the San Francisco Examiner.  Interview published in Image
>        magazine, a supplement of the Sunday Examiner, 10/4/92.

In article <1992Oct6.011133.14186@Warren.MENTORG.COM>, tal@Warren.MENTORG.COM (Tom Limoncelli) writes:
> 
> This is a bit out of context.
> 
> He was talking about "deadbeat dads".  He believes in going after them
> to make them pay WHAT THEY HAVE BE REQUIRED TO PAY.  He isn't talking
> about making them pay more, he IS talking about enforcing the rules
> that exist.
> 
> Less than 30% of all alimony is ever actually paid.
> 
> When you are talking about helping children, this is something
> that really needs to be done.
> 
> Tom
> -- 
> Tom Limoncelli -- 

May I remind you that alimony is not the same as child support?  The
bluring of the distinction, and the assumption that it's only moms
that do or should get custody and the assumption that all deadbeat
parents are fathers are two of the things that made my election choice
clear.

-- 
Thanks, John Kolassa, kolassa@bio1.bst.rochester.edu
Xref: sparky soc.men:17347 soc.women:17385 soc.singles:27023
From: jmd@bear.com (Josh Diamond)
Newsgroups: soc.men,soc.women,soc.singles
Subject: Re: Book Rec.: _Bodies: Overcoming the Tyranny of Perfection_
Date: 5 Oct 92 21:36:02 GMT
	<1992Sep30.174714.2900@mnemosyne.cs.du.edu> <1acs1tINNmkj@uwm.edu>
Organization: Bear, Stearns & Co. - FAST
In-reply-to: markh@csd4.csd.uwm.edu's message of 30 Sep 92 18:35:41 GMT


In article <1acs1tINNmkj@uwm.edu> markh@csd4.csd.uwm.edu (Mark) writes:

   I love to cook my first meal of the day.  Two eggs, 5 sausages, 3 slices of
   toast (perhaps with cinnamon), a bowl of cereal, maybe warm cereal, a cup or
   two of coffee, a glass of milk (uncooked), and maybe an orange and a pop tart
   or two.

Oh boy -- my arteries are hardening just thinking about this.  Yummy,
tho...

I always believed that a good breakfast must contain the four food
groups: 

	Caffiene
	Salt/Preservatives
	Fat
	Sugar
	Carbohydrates

So an example of a good breakfast would be bacon, egg and cheese on a
roll, washed down with a can of Jolt cola. :-) :-) :-)


Spidey!!!



--
 /\ \  / /\  Josh Diamond                                          jmd@bear.com
//\\ .. //\\ AKA Spidey!!!                        ...!ctr.columbia.edu!ursa!jmd
//\((  ))/\\
/  < `' >  \                                              Do whatever it takes.
Newsgroups: soc.men
From: econrad@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (Eric V Conrad)
Subject: Re: Victims of False "Memories" Form Organization
Organization: The Ohio State University
Date: Wed, 30 Sep 1992 14:53:27 GMT

In article <32660060@hpmwmat.sr.hp.com> mikep@hpmwtd.sr.hp.com (Mike Powell) writes:
>	It is understood that children lacking attention will often resort
>	to "bad behavior", and risk punishment, in an attempt to 
>	get attention or even the center of attention.  Adults
>	seeking "victim status" appear to be trying a similar tactic....
>
>	It would seem that for some people, being seen as a victim produces
>	instant sympathy and attention that they deeply feel they need.

Better yet, there's the profit potential!

--Eric
-- 
There are two kinds of people:
	1) Those who classify people into two kinds; and
	2) Those who don't.
Newsgroups: soc.men,alt.sex,alt.feminism
From: rtsumn01@ulkyvx.louisville.edu
Subject: Re: Choice for men: moving beyond anti-feminism
Date: Thu, 1 Oct 1992 03:08:20 GMT
Organization: University of Louisville

In article <1992Sep30.180518.12856@microsoft.com>, ericbr@microsoft.com (Eric Brown) writes:
> In article <sem_QgO00YV9M4zfEh@andrew.cmu.edu> rs87+@andrew.cmu.edu (Rebecca Ann Stallings) writes:
>>   That's not the point the first poster was trying to make.  In the
>>1960s, pharmaceutical companies went ahead and released the Pill even
>>though it was rather dangerous.  They've made modifications since, but
>>some brands and formulations still have serious side effects.  By
>>contrast, it seems that companies are unwilling to release a male pill
>>until it's absolutely perfect, not wanting to inconvenience or endanger
>>men.
> 
> Can you name this hypothetical male pill?  All the ones I've heard of cause
> irreversible sterility in a substantial minority of those who take it (e.g., 
> gossypol).  The Pill, while it _does_ have quite a few nasty side effects,
> does not have irreversible side effects of any kind.  (At least, I've never
> heard about the Pill causing sterility or death.)
> 
> 
> Eric

The Pill made me so depressed I nearly killed myself. I'd call that pretty
damned permanent.

I can't believe the way doctors hand the damned stuff out like candy.

--Semhaza