HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: tim@ear-ache.mit.edu (Tim Wilson)
Subject: Re: Matters of Attraction
Organization: Massachusetts Institute of Technology
	<manz.726219560@ee.ualberta.ca> <C0Hu0I.390@NCoast.ORG>
Date: Thu, 7 Jan 1993 17:53:27 GMT

brown@NCoast.ORG (Stan Brown) writes:

   manz@ee.ualberta.ca (Brett {Druid Queen} Manz) writes:
   >
   >Good conversation skills and an interesting personality can make 
   >up for a lot in lacking physical beauty.  The reverse is seldom 
   >true.

   And I am Marie of Romania.

Hi, Marie!
--
Tim Wilson
Internet:  tim@ear-ache.mit.edu
UUCP:  mit-eddie!mit-athena!tim
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: jbibb@eng.auburn.edu (John S. Bibb)
Subject: Re: Muffin on Parade
Reply-To: jbibb@eng.auburn.edu
Organization: Auburn University Engineering
Date: Tue, 12 Jan 1993 22:53:18 GMT

In article 15534882@enh.nist.gov, aberson@enh.nist.gov () writes:
> In a previous article, d000dlphi@leo.bsuvc.bsu.edu (David Speakman) wrote:
> >whatever that is between your navel and... 
> 
> The "goody trail."
> 
> Sim Aberson   Ft. Lauderdale, FL   aberson@ocean.dnet.nasa.gov

Happy trail.....the trail to Mr. Happy ;-)

J.Bibb
From: rizzoe@FASECON.ECON.NYU.EDU (Emily Rizzo)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Oregon 9 Voters Pamphlet
Date: 6 Jan 93 21:57:55 GMT
Organization: New York University

I know this is ancient history by now, but would someone have a copy of 
the Oregon Voters Pamphlet giving all the pro and con statements on 
Measure 9?  If so, please e-mail it to me.  I was unable to download it 
from nifty.andrew (probably due to my abyssmal computer skills).

Thanks, 

Emily
From: roger@otago.ac.nz (Roger Grauwmeijer)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Rings (was Re: Wedding bands)
Date: 13 Jan 93 09:28:35 +1300
Organization: University of Otago, Dunedin, New Zealand

In article <1993Jan12.104507.4928@reed.edu>, nelson@reed.edu (Nelson Minar) writes:
> On the other hand, our friends in Europe seem to confuse matters
> entirely. I discovered post-cruise that Norweigan men wear wedding
> rings on their right hands. (Damn!). Most British men don't wear
> wedding bands at all?

This reminds me of the (local?) trend of gays wearing a ring on their 'pinky'
finger. Is/was this pretty much universal?

> I wish ever gay man just wore a big sign that said "I'm a fag".

In glorious pink neon!

Rog.
- 
      ____
100%  \  / Roger Grauwmeijer                       Internet: roger@otago.ac.nz
QUEER  \/  B0 f-- t+ w c g(+) k(-) s+ e: h- p!              Ph: +64 3 479 8560
Operations Controller, Computing Services Centre           Fax: +64 3 479 8577
University of Otago, P.O. Box 56, Dunedin, N.Z.             AH: +64 3 474 0352
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
`You are perfect, you are sheer, If you are a redhead queer' - Erasure (No GDM)
From: anderson@macc.wisc.edu (Jess Anderson)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: Nominations for best Men's cologne
Date: 7 Jan 93 00:12:46 GMT
Organization: Madison Academic Computing Center, UW-Madison

In article <1993Jan6.225713.10637@psych.toronto.edu>
jarvis@psych.toronto.edu (Brian Jarvis) writes:

>I keep thinking about how many pounds rice and potatoes I could buy and
>give to the local food banks for $250.  A single fluid ounce of smelly
>chemical could feed a person for a month.

>Why do I suddenly have a very bad taste in my mouth?

Either you're putting the perfume on your tongue (Certs
work better) or your halo is just *too* bright.

-- 
[Jess Anderson <> Madison Academic Computing Center <> University of Wisconsin]
[Internet: anderson@macc.wisc.edu <-best, UUCP:{}!uwvax!macc.wisc.edu!anderson]
[Room 3130 <> 1210 West Dayton Street / Madison WI 53706 <> Phone 608/262-5888]
[---------> Discrimination, Bigotry, and Hate are not Family Values <---------]
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: jarvis@psych.toronto.edu (Brian Jarvis)
Subject: Re: Capitalization (dubious MOTSS content)
Organization: Department of Psychology, University of Toronto
Date: Wed, 6 Jan 1993 17:24:46 GMT

In article <1993Jan6.022253.15679@macc.wisc.edu> anderson@macc.wisc.edu (Jess Anderson) writes:
>Proving I'm a patient person, I've been waiting for a stylish
>rejoinder like this: into the quotes file with it!  Bravo!

Ooooo!  I'm in the Quotes File*!

This is as close to soc.motss nirvana as possible in this world IMHO,
short of being a member of the Cabal, which, of course, does not exist.

Brian

* It's become a soc.motss institution:  it deserves to be capitalized.
-- 

Brian A. Jarvis,          Rm. 4026, Sidney Smith Hall, Dept. of Psychology,
jarvis@psych.toronto.edu  University of Toronto, Toronto, Ontario, Canada
System Administrator      M5S 1A1  (416) 978-3948
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: jeh@aplcenmp.apl.jhu.edu (Jim Hubbs)
Subject: Re: MOW *Events*?
Organization: Johns Hopkins Continuing Professional Programs
Date: Mon, 11 Jan 1993 22:55:08 GMT

I am working on an updated list of MOW events which needs some
additional verification before it is ready to post.  I will try
to get it posted here this week.  

Jim Hubbs
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: cjlee@netcom.com (Caroline Jean Lee)
Subject: Re: Year of the Queer
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services  (408 241-9760 guest) 
Date: Tue, 12 Jan 1993 07:27:44 GMT

Reality Check for those glorifying Stonewall:

The majority of the people on this planet who have sex with others
of the same gender don't know about Stonewall and most likely
haven't been majorly affected by it.  In fact, most of what we'd call
queers on this planet might not identify themselves as such
because they concieve of sexuality in different terms.

I am thinking primarily of Asia, which is where most people on this
planet live, but Latin America also comes to mind, off the top of my head.
The concept of "gay pride" would be a foreign one, and the idea of
celebrating some riot at a bar in NYC would seem ridiculous to them.

It's important for the US, but let's not get outta hand here.

Caroline



Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: emcmanus@gr.osf.org (Eamonn McManus)
Subject: Re: PP: New EC Commissioner
Organization: Open Software Foundation Research Institute, Grenoble
Date: Fri, 8 Jan 1993 15:30:48 GMT

dbailey@cix.compulink.co.uk writes:
>        "Headbanger" Booted from Dublin to Brussels
>        Good News for Irish Gays, But Not for Europe
                                                            ,
I was dismayed when Cathal Kelly first mentioned here that Padraig
Flynn was about to be appointed commissioner for social (and
employment) affairs.  While "headbanger" might not be the most
accurate of descriptions, "troglodyte" certainly suggests itself.
It's unclear just how much influence he will have on EC social
policies, but I find it hard to believe that such influence as he does
wield will be to the good.  His departure from government in Ireland is
likely to be a change for the better there, but I wonder at what cost.

>     "He's what we term in Ireland a 'cute whore'," says Ms
>Byrne.  "He'd talk the hind legs off a donkey and tries to charm
>all women journalists.  Slimy and greasy would be my
>description."

In fact the term is more usually rendered "cute hoor", the connection
to the more usual meaning and pronunciation of "whore" being minimal.
If anything it usually expresses a certain grudging admiration for
unscrupulous cunning.  It's certainly not incompatible with finding
someone slimy, though.

,
Eamonn
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: ouz085@cck.coventry.ac.uk (J Murdock)
Subject: Cl*yt*n - who are you?
Organization: Coventry University
Date: Tue, 5 Jan 1993 21:10:13 GMT

'twas just mentioned in this office:

Given the regularity with which the unpleasant chappy posts, 
surely he should be in the picture archive?

Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: cgraham@convex.com (Chip Graham)
Subject: Re: Dallas (was Re: Austin, TX joins Colo. Boycott)
Organization: CONVEX Computer Corporation, Richardson, Tx., USA
Date: Mon, 04 Jan 1993 13:46:18 GMT
X-Disclaimer: This message was written by a user at CONVEX Computer
              Corp. The opinions expressed are those of the user and
              not necessarily those of CONVEX.

>> >By the way, Dallas is the only major city in Texas to actively persecute
>> > gays. 
>
>Wait a minute.  I thought Dallas was the city where the police conducted an  
>anit-gaybashing sting operation a few months ago...

Well, if you call taking names of all male persons driving through certain 
city parks, keeping those names on a Queer list at DPD offices, busting
people for public lewdness (fondling an undercover officer) when they were
enticed, and general harassment by officers an anti-gaybashing sting, then
ya, I guess you're right. The problem is, they took it too far IMHO.


-- 
Chip Graham      cgraham@convex.com         +1 214 497 4642
Convex Computer Corporation 
3000 Waterview Parkway     
Box 833851, Richardson,Tx,75083
From: elle@kimbark.uchicago.edu (Ellen Keyne Seebacher)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: Gay men personals...
Date: 7 Jan 93 05:13:15 GMT
Reply-To: elle@midway.uchicago.edu
Organization: University of Chicago

Greg Parkinson (glp@fig.citib.com) writes some things I agree with.

This isn't a direct response to what Greg wrote, but somehow his
article reminded me that I wanted to post this -- my nomination for
Best Ad, after years of idly perusing the personals now and then:

"BIG FAG WANTS another big fag for love, sex, and more.  Straight acting?
 I don't care, and if you do, you're not a big enough fag.  I'm 24, gay,
 black, and my attitude is as positive as my HIV status.  You're 28-48, 
 tall, employed, and you're aware of who you are sexually.  Grab a martini
 and call me!  --97224."

(From the _Chicago Reader_, I think, earlier this year.)

--                    __
Ellen Keyne Seebacher \/             elle@midway.uchicago.edu
  "I'm not sure whether I'm a faghag because I'm bi, or bi because I'm
   a faghag, or both because I'm me..." --STella
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: anderson@macc.wisc.edu (Jess Anderson)
Subject: Re: tearoom sex and bathroom police
Organization: Madison Academic Computing Center, UW-Madison
Distribution: soc
Date: Tue, 12 Jan 93 13:33:37 GMT

In article <1993Jan12.123214.22351@lclark.edu>
snodgras@lclark.edu (Bil Snodgrass) writes:

>In article <1993Jan12.111353.16313@macc.wisc.edu>
>anderson@macc.wisc.edu (Jess Anderson) writes:

>>In article <1993Jan12.075727.19300@lclark.edu>
>>snodgras@lclark.edu (Bil Snodgrass) writes:

>>>Before the Portland Police Department
>>>started a crack down on one of our parks a leak occured and the gay 
>>>community was alerted to what would be happening.  So we protected
>>>the people in the parks and we protect ourselves from some bad p.r.

>>In a free society you would not need "protection" from law
>>enforcement.  In a free society, sex in park toilets would
>>not be a public-relations issue.

>Very true!  But I know of no such free society.

Are you saying, therefore, that such objections as mine
are not valid for that reason?

>Ah, I do remember talk about one when I was a kid growing
up.  But it was just a myth like Santa Claus.

Are you trivializing the idea of freedom because there is no
Santa Claus?  Sounds like you're still a kid.

-- 
[Jess Anderson <> Madison Academic Computing Center <> University of Wisconsin]
[Internet: anderson@macc.wisc.edu <-best, UUCP:{}!uwvax!macc.wisc.edu!anderson]
[Room 3130 <> 1210 West Dayton Street / Madison WI 53706 <> Phone 608/262-5888]
[---------> Discrimination, Bigotry, and Hate are not Family Values <---------]
From: mickw@autodesk.com (Mick Washbrook)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: Changing standards of female beauty (Is: the empowerment of women)
Date: 4 Jan 93 22:53:09 GMT

In article <1993Jan3.014408.18528@toolz.uucp>, todd@toolz.uucp (Todd Merriman) writes:
> It's sad that fashion dictates that women must hide behind a
> mask of makeup to be "beautiful."  The idea that women are
> attractive only when you cannot see their real selves is an 
> idea perpetuated by men because (1) it support a multi-billion
> dollar cosmetics industry owned mostly by men, and (2) it is
> demeaning to women to not be able to be accepted as they really
> are.  Thus, men are able to maintain a power structure that
> obviously favors men and puts-down women; and makes lots of money
> in the doing!   

Gosh! You're right! We're all behind ya, brother Todd!
Onward brothers and sisters! Throw away that lip gloss,
trash those lashes, womyn, never mind unleashing them!

> As long as women continue to smear that ridiculous colored
> stuff all over their faces, they cannot be taken seriously.

You're right again! I don't!
> 
> Don't even ask me what I think about high-heels!

What do ya think about high heels (on women, that is)?

> Rember the "bra burning" of the 70's?  Maybe it's time to 
> have a "makeup burning" of the 90's.

Embrace the planet!! Vegetable rights and peace!!

--
Death to all fanatics!!

Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the law.
From: tittle@ics.uci.edu (Cindy Tittle Moore)
Subject: Re: Changing standards of female beauty (Is: the empowerment of women)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Reply-To: tittle@ics.uci.edu (Cindy Tittle Moore)
Organization: ICS Dept., UC Irvine
Date: 4 Jan 93 20:19:38 GMT

In <1993Jan3.152358.7218@macc.wisc.edu> anderson@macc.wisc.edu (Jess Anderson) writes:

>In article <1i6201INNo03@mizar.usc.edu>
>adolphso@mizar.usc.edu (Arne Adolphson), West Hollywood's
>Bad Guy Recidivist, scoffs:

>>Women somehow aren't really themselves when they put on a
>>little powder?

>Fair question, I think.

Well, obviously, my self doesn't change when I wear specific clothing
or makeup.  Any external additions have no effect on the "I" that I
am.

However, external additions can greatly influence the behavior of
people around me.  Sometimes the behaviors are ones that I like; other
times they are not.  In particular, there are specific behaviors that
make it very clear that who they see and who I am are not the same
thing at all.  Now, how can I "be myself" if I've been tightly
pigeonholed into another role?  Certainly I can defy it, and I do, but
the act of defiance has changed my behavior from "being myself" to
"being myself, dammit".

And it's never "a little powder."  Why are you putting that powder on?
Is it whimsical, for fun, a little ego boost?  Or is it because you're
afraid you won't get a job without that powder?  In my mind, those are
two very different things, and hence it becomes insulting when make up
is dismissed as above.

--Cindy


--

*  I would rather that a bigot thought I was a lesbian than that a
*  lesbian thought I was a bigot.        -- Tovah Hollander
From: dyer@spdcc.com (Steve Dyer)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: Arne Adolphson, etc.
Date: 9 Jan 93 05:34:57 GMT
Article-I.D.: spdcc.1993Jan9.053457.19935
Organization: S.P. Dyer Computer Consulting, Cambridge MA

In article <73226@cup.portal.com> Furr@cup.portal.com (George Dalton Madison) writes:
>Hm. I did overstate myself a bit, there.  My point is that I find
>him *consistently* nasty. Perhaps not every posting, but *far* too
>many for my taste.

Scot's description of "camp-impaired" was perfect.  There's no
other explanation for it.

>And as I pointed out in my direct response to Arne, he does have
>this difficulty with the concept that all gay men don't relate by 
>verbally stabbing each other in the back, all the time.

I've only seen him react tartly to two individuals here, and that's
because they have been consistently taunting and provocative; what do
you expect?  George, it doesn't take more than a poke or two in your
eye to start you sputtering, so don't try to take any moral high
ground.  At least Arne has some wit, whereas you _do_ tend to be
humorless and adolescent when you think you're being attacked.  I mean,
just as _one_ example, your responses to Jeff Dauber were pathetic--you
might as well have shot yourself in the head rather than have said what
you did.  Or at least have kept quiet.  Don't you realize that it
doesn't do _you_ any service to reply to a taunt in such a way that you
end up looking _worse_ than before?  I mean, this school-boy "I know
you are but what am I?" response is incredibly lame.  Believe me,
George, I am not trying to give you a hard time; I'm _making explicit_
stuff you should have learned about electronic communication a long
time ago.  It's not as if you're inexperienced, after all.

>>Indeed, this effort of yours is a source of amusement to most people
>>here, who would be more inclined to describe your own contributions to
>>motss in such one-dimensional terms, if they weren't too polite to do so.
>In short, that's their problem.

Well, _exactly_.  Chew on that for a bit and see what you cough up.

>In any case, I've been finding
>Arne's *ludicrous* characterizations of me to be rather funny --
>as, I am sure, anyone who actually knows me has found them.

Uh-huh.  And even those who recognize the distortion realize it
isn't the point, which is George-baiting, a ridiculously easy
endeavor and source of entertainment.  Yet when this happens,
you let them pull your strings and you bark on cue.

>>Now, how about trying to be an objective core relative?
>
>You first.

You flunk.  You can't believe how disappointed I am with this line.
I expected many more groans.


-- 
Steve Dyer
dyer@ursa-major.spdcc.com aka {ima,harvard,rayssd,linus,m2c}!spdcc!dyer
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: john@drummond.demon.co.uk (John Fisher)
Subject: Re: A bad coming out story?
Reply-To: john@drummond.demon.co.uk
Distribution: world
X-Mailer: cppnews $Revision: 1.20 $
Organization: not
Date: Sun, 10 Jan 1993 04:17:11 +0000

In article <1993Jan8.210920.1280@midway.uchicago.edu> kolt@midway.uchicago.edu writes:

> [he is tutoring a friend's 15-year-old son]
> Anyway, she and I had lunch today and she said to me, after an hour's 
> worth of other conversation, "Don't discuss lifestyles with Jay." I 
> quickly respond, "Oh no. We've got way too much work to do." And she 
> follows with "Good. Because he's still innocent. And I'd like to keep 
> it that way."

It really astonishes me how people can forget so easily what
it's like to be, say, fifteen.  Innocent?  What on earth can
she mean?

> This is from a really liberal person who I'm sure doesn't consider 
> herself phobic at all. I'm sure she doesn't see her p-o-v as being
> the same hoping-to-sweeep-it-under-the-carpet thing that so many liberal
> type people are guilty of.

Heh.  My sister has discussed me being gay with her two
children, 6 and 7, in detail.  She said she thought it was
great that me being there gave her a chance to talk about
things like that.  But then, she's a socialist, not a
liberal. 

> Can anyone recommend how I should handle the situation?

Well, you could ignore what she says and discuss it with the
boy.  Then there'd be a row, and several people could get
hurt.  But maybe you'll think it's worth it. 

Or you could do what she says.  But perhaps that's caving in
to unreasonable demands and general stupidity. 

Or you could give up teaching the boy.  But perhaps that's
running away, and anyhow I expect you need the money. 

I dunno.  I'm not good at advice.

--John
From: kmeyer@aero.org (Kraig R. Meyer)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Out to parents in relationships (was Re: long-term relationships...success stories, please...)
Date: 6 Jan 93 16:18:00
Organization: The Aerospace Corporation, El Segundo, CA
NNTP-Posting-Host: solarium.aero.org
In-reply-to: Cread@Fwva.Saic.Com's message of Wed, 30 Dec 1992 22:18:58 GMT


I have noticed one peculiar characteristic about every couple that
I know who have had successful long term relationships.  In every
instance, both partners have been out to their parents.

Have others seen this same thing?  If so, why do you think it is?
It seems as though there could be a lot of different factors.  There
could be an added element of support, or higher level of maturity
or self-esteem.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------
| The opinions expressed above are my own and do not necessarily          |
| represent those of The Aerospace Corporation, El Segundo, CA.           |
|									  |
| Kraig R. Meyer		   	                 kmeyer@aero.org  |
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: jarvis@psych.toronto.edu (Brian Jarvis)
Subject: Re: read "AfterShocks"
Organization: Department of Psychology, University of Toronto
Date: Thu, 7 Jan 1993 22:40:25 GMT

In article <18332@autodesk.COM> mickw@autodesk.com (Mick Washbrook) writes:
>
>All you lovers of predictions out there might be interested to know that a recent
>book I saw on the predictions of Nostradamus stated that the San Andreas fault will
>go on May 9 (I believe). San Diego becomes a new coral reef, LA is destroyed,
                                                              ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Based on my stay there last summer and borrowing liberally from Dorothy
Parker, how could one tell? 

>Have a nice day.

Now he tells me.  B{)

Brian
-- 

Brian A. Jarvis,          Rm. 4026, Sidney Smith Hall, Dept. of Psychology,
jarvis@psych.toronto.edu  University of Toronto, Toronto, Ontario, Canada
System Administrator      M5S 1A1  (416) 978-3948
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: mara@panix.com (Mara Chibnik)
Subject: Re: US Schools Adding Lessons on Gay Life
Organization: (getting there)
Date: Fri, 8 Jan 1993 14:38:45 GMT



rjwill6@pbsdts.sdcrc.pacbell.com (Rod Williams) wrote about a
NYTimes article about the reasons that NYC had trouble with it's
proposed curriculum on diversity:
   >>>The article suggests that New York City ran into
   >>>trouble with its similar "Children of the Rainbow" curriculum
   >>>because it failed to include parents in developing the
   >>>curriculum and is trying to introduce it to first-graders,
   >>>rather than older kids (6th/7th graders), like other, more
   >>>successful programs...

Last night the local cable news channel presented the survey of a
Harris poll it had commissioned that said that NYers are _not_
"divided" on this issue, but that there is "overwhelming" support
for the Schools Chancellor and the CotR curriculum.  I wasn't able
to write down what they said, but they cited figures at around 70%
of the people polled saying that kids should be taught about safer
sexual practices and to accept families with gay or lesbian parents.
There was more support cited than I'd have expected for "making
condoms available" to teenagers.  

What's the catch?  The people polled thought that this curriculum
should be introduced in 6th or 7th grade...  It's obviously
considered "sex education"-- even the parts that aren't.  And, of
course, we cannot introduce "sex education" too early, or we'll ruin
latency for our young people.  [growl]


-- 

  Mara Chibnik
  mara@panix.com                Life is too important to be taken seriously.

Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: jfh@netcom.com (Jack Hamilton)
Subject: Re: Different Strokes (was Re: Changing standards of female beauty)
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services (408 241-9760 guest)
Date: Tue, 5 Jan 1993 23:03:47 GMT

In article <76121@apple.apple.COM> richard@Apple.COM (a flying squirrel) writes:
>
>If you have the neighbor's phone number, I would suggest calling him/her
>at all hours.  Simply say, "Your dog is barking" and hang up.  After 
>he/she has been awakened several times, they'll likely do something
>about it.

Like get an answering machine. 


-- 

-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Jack Hamilton   jfh@netcom.com   P. O. Box 281107   SF, CA   94128-1107