HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: laudw@csv.warwick.ac.uk (Mr D R Holden)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.soccer
Subject: Re: Rivals (or, who do ya hate?)
Date: 12 Dec 1992 01:09:12 -0000
Organization: Computing Services, University of Warwick, UK
NNTP-Posting-Host: lily.csv.warwick.ac.uk

In article <Bz3qEJ.8q4@cen.ex.ac.uk> cs92aja@cen.ex.ac.uk (A.J.Amsel) writes:
>Whoops !
>I was wrong about Forest / County rivalry.
>I do remember forest fans ranting about Derby when we played them in the
>cup. I also know that Derby hate forest and Leicester hate Derby !
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------
> | This is sent to your courtesy of Alex Amsel incorporated |
> ------------------------------------------------------------
> |  We`ll keep the Gold Flag Flying high. Oooh Bully Bully  |
> |          W A N D E R E R S   A R E   B A C K             |
> ------------------------------------------------------------

Well,I don't know about you Alex,but I am a Derby fan,have been for
years.Although it is generally inbred in East midlands football that
Derby hate Leicester,Forest etc,because of the continuity in E.Midlands
football (Phil Gee,Darren Wassall,Ormandroyd,Sutton,etc....) I don't
really hate E.Midlands football in General....I think that

(a) Derby and Leicester will be promoted
(b) Forest will survive their relegation troubles
and
(c) eventually E midlands footy will piss on W midlands footy
     and go into Europe

so FORAZA the East Midlands !!!!!!!!!!!!!

yeah !!!!
sod you villa,brum.wolves,we are going to kick your ass !
From: ach@cs.bham.ac.uk (Alastair C Hume)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.soccer
Subject: Re: Fever Pitch
Keywords: Arsenal
Date: 14 Dec 92 20:55:51 GMT
Organization: University of Birmingham

In article <1992Dec9.184922.7865@cas.org>, jfc88@cas.org (Jim Corning) writes:
|> 
|> 	Even at the risk of identifying myself to the entire newsgroup as an
|> Arsenal supporter I would like to know if any of you (especially other Arsenal
|> fans) have read and would recommend the book "Fever Pitch" by Nick Holby.?
|> 
|> 	Someone sent me a clipping from a back issue of The Spectator (date
|> not known) where there is a brief mention of this book. The reviewer called this
|> a literate and intelligent account of a quarter century's obsession with Arsenal
|> FC. That is probably enough to persuade me to order it but I would really like
|> to see other opinions from readers of this group to get a different perspective.
|> 
|> 	Email responses would also be fine. Thanks in advance.
|> 
|> 
|> 	Jim Corning
|> 	jfc88@cas.org
|> 
|> 	Usual Disclaimers Apply


I have read the book and loved it.  I am no Arsenal fan but that doesn't 
really make much difference.  If you are a football fan who regularly
goes to the games and has an illogical love for your team then you will
recognise a hell of a lot of yourself in this book.  

I particularly liked the part about the obvious dilemma caused by 
weddings and similar occasions occuring on a Saturday during the football
season!  I was recently put in this situation by my mum getting married
while Ally McCoist was scoring with a diving header at Tynecastle - I
went to the wedding (only beacuse it was my mum - I wouldn't have gone
to anybody elses!).

If football has taken over your life to this sort of extent then the 
book is well worth reading and it is also well worth passing it to your
other-half so that she/he will never be daft enough to say "but it's only 
against Motherwell and you already have no hope of winning the league"  
to you again!!

I would recommend you buy it. My brother and dad are both getting it
for Christmas but don't tell them...

Ally
Newsgroups: rec.sport.disc
From: dep1700@bcstec.ca.boeing.com (Diane Pagel)
Subject: Last chance at Hawaii tourney 90 buck price
Organization: Boeing
Date: Wed, 16 Dec 1992 00:17:22 GMT

The title says it all: Today is the deadline to enter the
Kaimani Klassik tourney for 90 bucks. After today it will
cost 100 bucks. So I would suggest a postmarked letter
for today.

Send your money to me....no just kidding, really !!!

The collector of the bucks is:
DrewBob
1375 Akalani Pl
Kailua HI 96734
(808) 263-8616

Also please note what shirt size you wear and whether you want
a meat or veggie dinner.

Will be there in spirit.....

Diane

From: peter@geology.wisc.edu (Peter Burkholder)
Approved: news@is.morgan.com
Date: Thu, 17 Dec 1992 16:27:39 GMT
Munged: news-gateway (is.morgan.com: $Revision: 1.8 $)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.disc
Organization: Morgan Stanley & Company, Inc.
Distribution: world
Subject: WUCC93 erratum

The WUCC93 team fee will be US$250, not US$225 as stated in my last
posting.
+------------------------------------------------------------------------+
|Peter Burkholder, wucc93@geology.wisc.edu               \\  /~~~~~\     |
|Madison Ultimate Frisbee Assoc.                          \\'  WUCC |    |
|WUCC '93 Public Relatiions Dir.                           \=>  93  |    |
+~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~                             \_____/   ~~+
Newsgroups: rec.sport.disc
From: krajnatg@infonode.ingr.com (Tom G. Krajna)
Subject: Re: Ultimate as a spectator
Organization: Intergraph Corporation, Huntsville, AL.
Date: Wed, 16 Dec 1992 02:42:33 GMT

Eric.Simon@f120.n109.z1.fidonet.org (Eric Simon) writes:

>TGK>>>  o Get rid of the pull.  In the early days, basketball used to have a
>TGK>>>    jump ball after *every* basket.  Now, basketball is down to several

>But, can you answer the question of how to get teams to change sides
>every point, so as to equalize the wind advantage?  (Winner takes it?)

Yes -- don't have wind :-).  As someone else pointed out, games on very
windy days might be 11-0 at the half but end 11-21.  If the team which
scores gets to keep it then there are problems on calm days, especially
if one team is not partial to turnovers (gee, I hate playing teams like
that...)  So give the team that was just scored-on the option of taking
the disc or playing D.  (I know, I know, kludgy solution...)

This does really show just how affected Ultimate is by wind.  Does wind
change play more for any other sport (excepting sailing, kite flying,
hang gliding, etc.)?  And why does it seem that 90% of the time the fields
are upwind/downwind instead of crosswind?

>TGK>>>  o Get referees.  No, not for the usual reasons.  But because spectators
>TGK>>Yes.  This is probably a major point, though it's not because spectators
>TGK>>hate referees.  It's because the most difficult part of the game to watch>TGK>>is the calls made by the players.  Even if you know the game well, you

>Dwight Stones, of gold-medal-olympian-high-jumping (and now, TV
>announcer) fame made a good point regarding this when he was watching
>ULtimate.  He said that it's not the REF or NO REF which slows the game
>down, but the FOULS themselves.  He pointed to Water Polo, which, in his
>opinion, is terrible for spectating because there are so many stoppages
>of play.  And, yet, there _are_ refs in Water Polo.

Okay, so in the 23rd century when we finally have refs (we can make
Ultimate the official sport of Starfleet Academy), have the refs count
fouls on a per-player basis.  The fear of fouling out will keep the game
clean -- at least that's how it's supposed to work in basketball.  As far
as travels etc. go -- if there are refs, then travels can be turnovers
(shudder)...so there'd be less of those, also.  (I'm not real convinced
of this scenario, by the way :-).

--Tom K.
From: chan@hpfcmgw.FC.HP.COM (Chan Benson)
Date: Wed, 16 Dec 1992 20:53:54 GMT
Subject: Re: Re: Ultimate as a spectator sport(also some silly offsides rule)
Organization: HP Fort Collins, CO
Newsgroups: rec.sport.disc

Sorry for the drift, but...

> As for [football] games
> being too long, this was due to the "instant replay" rule taking too much
> time each game.  

You've got to be kidding.  The major delay factor in football is TV
"time-outs" (aka "paying the bills"). Instant Replay was insignificant
in comparison.

If you'd ever been to a game in person (especially on a cold day), you
might've noticed the incredible amount of time the players spend just 
standing around on the field waiting for the commercials to end.

			-- Chan

From: peter@geology.wisc.edu (Peter Burkholder)
Approved: news@is.morgan.com
Date: Thu, 17 Dec 1992 16:13:19 GMT
Munged: news-gateway (is.morgan.com: $Revision: 1.8 $)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.disc
Organization: Morgan Stanley & Company, Inc.
Distribution: world
Subject: Worlds93 update and prices

NEWS:  The WUCC'93 planning committee was thrilled to learn yesterday that
Venezuela is hoping to send not just one but *TWO* teams to the Madison
tournament.  IMHO, the Venezueleans win this week's SOTG award.  I've also
learned that Norway will be sending at least one open division team, and
Australia will send at least two open division teams and one women's team.
More teams will be responding in the next two weeks before the 1 January
quota list deadline.  

INTERESTED CLUB TEAMS:  Please try to notify your national association if
you are interested in competing at Madison by the 1 January notification
deadline.  Although we will accept waitlist applications until 15 February,
our planning will be much easier the sooner we know you might be playing.

PRICES:  The team fees are US$225, due with your applications in February,
and the player fees are US$75 due in April.  
These figures are based on our budget for
liability insurance, field maintenance, potties, stadium rental,
administration, tents, parties, player packets (shirt, disc, programs, and
other stuff), WFDF fees, medical personnel, advertising, trophies, and a
host of other expenses incurred in a week-long tournament.  Shirt and disc
sales will be providing some income, but not enough to significantly lower
the player fees.  Corporate sponsorship deals are in the offing, and a
major underwriter could cover many of the player expenses.  If a sponsor
comes through early next month, then we might be able to reduce the player
fees before collecting from anyone.  Otherwise, we will refund a portion of
the player fees at the tournament.  We're not making any promises about
refunds, but we are doing everything in our power to keep this tournament 
open to any foreign team that is qualified to play.

HOUSING DEALS: The University of Wisconsin housing office has arranged a great
bargin for our Ultimate Village in the Lakeshore Dorms.  Get this:  8
nights in a shared room, with breakfast and supper each day for only
US$145.  You'd pay more to stay home and eat TV dinners.  A single room
will run US$190.

AIRLINE DEALS:  We have none.  The carriers we have contacted so far have
not been much help.  Summer prices will not be set for several months, and
we were not able to arrange any 'official Ultimate airline' deals.  It
seems that the best approach might be for teams to cooperate within
different regions (e.g. western Europe) to fly together and get a group
rate or charter part of a plane.  Any ideas out there?

+------------------------------------------------------------------------+
|Peter Burkholder                                        \\  /~~~~~\     |
|Madison Ultimate Frisbee Assoc.                          \\'  WUCC |    |
|WUCC '93 Public Relatiions Dir.                           \=>  93  |    |
+~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~                             \_____/   ~~+
Newsgroups: rec.sport.disc
From: brooks@ico.isc.com (Chris Brooks)
Subject: Re: Changing Ultimate into a
Organization: Interactive Systems Corp., Boulder CO
Date: Tue, 15 Dec 1992 19:13:40 GMT

In article <724438920.AA00000@blkcat.UUCP> Eric.Simon@f120.n109.z1.fidonet.org (Eric Simon) writes:
>JH>   So whup them into shape!  Start doing subs like in basketball, whenever
>JH>   there's a stoppage of play.  (In college bball, a TV timeout is taken
>JH>   at the first stoppage of play after 4,8,12, and 16 minutes.  Something
>JH>   similar, perhaps?)
>
>JH>Not only is subbing done at timeouts in hoops, but also at any whistle.
>JH>A major problem that could arise is people making calls at a deliberate
>JH>time to stop a play and get their sub into the game.
>
>Hmmm, interesting.  Without speaking pro or con, I can fix up your idea.
>Suppose that ONLY the opposite team that made the call can intiate subs.
>I.e., if team A makes a call, team B can make subs.  Then, if B chooses
>to, say, make two subs, A can make up to two subs (kinda like an injury,
>where the injured person leaves and the other person then has a choice
>of whether to sub or not).  Hmmmm, interesting.
>
> * SLMR 2.1a * Do not adjust your mind - the problem is with reality.
>

We do a variant of this at the Fourth of July.  Either side can call a TO and
sub in at most 2.  It works OK, but, I think it will lead to further
"specialization" amongst the players on a team (ie. players that are strictly 
offense and others that are strictly defense). 

"Captain"
Stains/Spit/Slims/Denial
Newsgroups: rec.sport.disc
From: fulton@silver.ucs.indiana.edu (Ben Fulton)
Subject: Re: Changing Ultimate into a spectator sport
Organization: Indiana University
Date: Mon, 14 Dec 1992 13:39:59 GMT

In <Dec.11.14.30.31.1992.19195@math.rutgers.edu> socolow@math.rutgers.edu (Paul Socolow @ Machine Ultimate) writes:

>   Finally, if we increase the number of timeouts, can people sub out
>during one? If so, we might actually decrease the amount of
>conditioning people need, and at least make it almost impossible to
>have the proverbial "point from hell". 

I'm not sure how you figure this.  If we drop the pull, then people will
not be able to substitute after every point.  Even if there were six or
seven timeouts per half, that's still a lot less opportunities for people
to sub out than there are now.  People would need more conditioning,
not less.

-- 
ben
fulton@silver.ucs.indiana.edu
Newsgroups: rec.sport.disc
From: krajnatg@infonode.ingr.com (Tom G. Krajna)
Subject: Football as a spectator sport (was Ultimate...)
Organization: Intergraph Corporation, Huntsville, AL.
Date: Sat, 19 Dec 1992 03:09:58 GMT

chan@hpfcmgw.FC.HP.COM (Chan Benson) writes:

>> As for [football] games
>> being too long, this was due to the "instant replay" rule taking too much
>> time each game.  

>You've got to be kidding.  The major delay factor in football is TV
>"time-outs" (aka "paying the bills"). Instant Replay was insignificant
>in comparison.

Perhaps I should have said, "Football games were taking way too long due
to all the TV timeouts.  *Then* they added a poorly-implemented system
of instant replays.  This was the straw that broke the camel's back."

Better?

--Tom K.
From: sd007b@uhura.cc.rochester.edu (Sunil Dixit)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.disc
Subject: Re: Number of players
Date: 18 Dec 92 04:24:57 GMT
Distribution: na
Organization: University of Rochester - Rochester, New York

In <1992Dec18.013828.5193@mprgate.mpr.ca> haman@mpr.ca (Anja Haman) writes:


>I would like some opinions:

>What is the optimal number of players to have on a team? (that's
>a touring team, holding practices and taking the game fairly seriously).


>anja
>haman@mprgate.mpr.ca


Anja,

That would depend on how good they are.  The ideal situation would be to
have fourteen awesome players, so you could stick in a whole new fresh team
every point.  Alas, only in Ithaca.  My best advice would be around 25 guys. 
You can't guarantee that everyone will make it to every tournament, or that
they'll all stay for the whole tourney.  25 solid, dependable players should
do you fine.  Of course, the more the merrier, I'm just saying 25 should be
a rough base.  Don't ever make cuts, because talent can bud from nowhere...

Sunil
Newsgroups: rec.sport.disc
From: rex@b23a.b23a.ingr.com (Rex O'Quinn)
Subject: Tourneys in the South
Organization: Intergraph
Distribution: rec
Date: Thu, 17 Dec 1992 16:03:50 GMT


Just thought I would pass on some info on spring tourneys that I have 
heard about. 


DATE	TOURNEY		CITY		CONTACT	PHONE NUMBER

January

16-17	SAVAGE SEVEN 	ATLANTA		JIM 	1-404-524-0887

FEBRUARY

6-7	SAVAGE SEVEN	ORLANDO, FL	MATT	1-407-331-3723

13-14 	MUD BOWL 	BIRMINGHAM, AL	TOM 	1-205-918-0600

20-21	MARDI GRAS	BATON ROUGE, LA	GETTY	1-504-766-4266

MARCH

6-7	FROST BREAKER	GAINSVILLE, FL	SCHOOL 	1-904-332-3807

13-14	ST PATTIS DAY	COLUMBIA, SC	BRYAN	1-803-779-6695
13-14	BEACH BOWL 	WEST PALM, FL	TIM	1-407-624-0529

20-21	SPRING BREAK 	MIAMA, FL	KURT	1-305-787-0417
20-21	SYNTEX		AUSTIN, TX	LUIS	1-512-794-9253

27-28	TERMINUS	ATLANTA, GA	JIM	1-404-524-0887


Hope everyone has a Merry Christmas and a Happy New Year.

   **********************************************************************
   * Rex O'Quinn                  mail path: rex@b23a.b23a.ingr.com     *
   * 334 Autumn Lane              ph# 205-464-0359 (H) 205-730-6187 (W) *
   * Madison, AL 35758            fax # 205-730-6239                    *
   **********************************************************************

From: jlindgren@pns.apc.org
Approved: news@is.morgan.com
Date: Sun, 20 Dec 1992 08:47:49 GMT
Munged: news-gateway (is.morgan.com: $Revision: 1.8 $)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.disc
Organization: Morgan Stanley & Company, Inc.
Distribution: world
Subject: Re:  Forwarded news from rec.sport.disc

Hello.
I seem to have a problem getting messages back to the ultimate-list. I have 
tried to write a couple of times but my messages seem to return to me with
a note that the address could not be found.
I have not seen what I have written in the ultimate-list batches that I get
back either.
Could you let me know if this is getting thorugh as it should?
johan lindgren
jlindgren@pns.apc.org


Newsgroups: rec.sport.disc
From: tnt@netcom.com (Terry Turner)
Subject: a radical rule change proposal
Organization: Watch the Skies
Distribution: rec
Date: Wed, 16 Dec 1992 23:59:52 GMT

i propose that we change the rules of ultimate so that it is the offending
party that makes the call. this is easily implemented for infractions such
as marking fouls, or contact during an attempted reception. with all the
talk about referees (i am in favor for nationals) i think we should
consider going to the opposite extreme by taking the "spirit of the game"
to a higher plane.  if everyone played knowing that they could never call
a foul on someone else, it might have a surprising effect on players. by
this i mean you would never have arguments along the lines: i did not; you
did too; etc. it might also make players realize they are responsible for
their actions and this could lead to a friendlier game.

i admit that this would never work for the nationals, some of those teams
are terminally foul (sorry, i hate puns too), but it would be an
interesting experiment. we should give it a try at a tournament or two and
see how it works out.

i am hoping that this post will at least stimulate discussion which will
lead to this idea being given a trial.

p.s. to those of you that have played with and/or against me and are right
now in shock--i'm serious.
-- 
terry
	tnt@netcom.com
Newsgroups: rec.sport.disc
From: PATOC@vmd.cso.uiuc.edu
Subject: Ultimate "Official" size
Organization: C.C.S.O.
Date: Mon, 21 Dec 1992 01:51:11 GMT

This may seem naaive, but what is the "official" ultimate size, weight?
I was just wondering if tournaments are the same as other play.
Thanks
From: wohler@hw1175.sap-ag.de (Bill Wohler)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.disc
Subject: Re: Ultimate as a spectator sport
Date: 11 Dec 92 21:10:03 GMT
Reply-To: Bill Wohler <wohler@sap-ag.de>
Organization: SAP AG  Walldorf, Germany
Phone: +49 6227-341658  Home: +49 6221-163255
             <9212112056.AA24602@sap-ag.de>
X-Mailer: MH [Version 6.7.2]

>   this might be an interesting idea to try anyway.  just give the
>   teams more time-outs to use for substitution.

  i forgot to include that text that describes "this".  sorry 'bout
  that.  in case it was clear, "this" referred to "no pulls."

  i like ben's idea about subbing during stoppages of play.

> "A player could hang back in his own endzone, and wait for a huck after
> his team gives up a point."

> Uhhh...

  the team that just got burned sends just one person downfield to
  put the disk in play.  he wings it to his team who are waiting in
  the endzone.

  oh vic, no fear--i'm not catering to spectators.  it's just that we
  often skip the pulls in practice.  i just hadn't thought about
  skipping them in a tournament as well.  it's appealing.

						--bw
From: Eric.Simon@f120.n109.z1.fidonet.org (Eric Simon)
Sender: Uucp@blkcat.UUCP
Newsgroups: rec.sport.disc
Subject: Ultimate as a spectator
Date: Fri, 11 Dec 1992 14:14:00 -0500

TGK>>>  o Get rid of the pull.  In the early days, basketball used to have a
TGK>>>    jump ball after *every* basket.  Now, basketball is down to several

TGK>>Absolutely not.  If fans can stand the delays in baseball, and all the
TGK>>timeouts (called and TV timeouts) and huddles in football,
TGK>>then they can stand the pull.
TGK>>Geez.

TGK>I suppose you'd like the jump ball after every basket in basketball to be
TGK>reinstated?  Or was that a "good" (though very radical) rule change?

But, can you answer the question of how to get teams to change sides
every point, so as to equalize the wind advantage?  (Winner takes it?)

TGK>>>  o Get referees.  No, not for the usual reasons.  But because spectators

TGK>>Yes.  This is probably a major point, though it's not because spectators
TGK>>hate referees.  It's because the most difficult part of the game to watch
TGK>>is the calls made by the players.  Even if you know the game well, you

Dwight Stones, of gold-medal-olympian-high-jumping (and now, TV
announcer) fame made a good point regarding this when he was watching
ULtimate.  He said that it's not the REF or NO REF which slows the game
down, but the FOULS themselves.  He pointed to Water Polo, which, in his
opinion, is terrible for spectating because there are so many stoppages
of play.  And, yet, there _are_ refs in Water Polo.

 * SLMR 2.1a * Back Up My Hard Drive? I Can't Find The Reverse Switch!
From: socolow@math.rutgers.edu (Paul Socolow @ Machine Ultimate)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.disc
Subject: Re: Changing Ultimate into a spectator sport
Date: 11 Dec 92 19:30:31 GMT
Organization: Rutgers Univ., New Brunswick, N.J.


  Has anyone besides myself noticed the inherent drawbacks of
replacing pulls by a "drop it at the goal line and play"? If possesion
switches, then on a ridiculously windy day, the team that scores first
downwind could concievably go into half without giving up any points!
This is not relieved by the fact that sides switch at half, since then
the other team could win by 15-8 (or 21-11, you get the idea).
  If possesion dosen't switch, if a team that dosen't commit many
turnovers scores first, they could maintain possesion until half (or
even beyond, if they pulled at the beginning). I  happen to like the
idea of the other team getting possesion after a score. 
   Finally, if we increase the number of timeouts, can people sub out
during one? If so, we might actually decrease the amount of
conditioning people need, and at least make it almost impossible to
have the proverbial "point from hell". If not, then ultimate becomes
like world cup soccer, where your starting team plays pretty much the
whole game. I guess the whole issue of roster limits would become
moot; teams wouldn't need more than 12 people or so.
   For these reasons, I am definitly against getting rid of the pull.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
RRRRRR    U     U       Paul Socolow, Rutgers Univ. Machine Ultimate
R     R   U     U       socolow@math.rutgers.edu
RRRRRR    U     U
R   R     U     Ultimate 
R    R     UUUUU