HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: deeds@oracle (Deanna J. Deeds)
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: Re: Christmas tree alternative?
Date: 17 Nov 92 19:26:13 GMT
Reply-To: deeds@solaria.hac.com
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1 PL6]

Joan C. Maxfield (maxfield@athena.cs.uga.edu) wrote:
: 
: OK, I know this is going to sound REALLY odd, but:
: 	Does anyone have any ideas for 'alternate' types of christmas
: trees?  
: 
This sounds weird but I thought it was kind of a neat idea when I 
heard it last year (probably on the net :) ).  Apparently there are 
places where you can *rent* a live tree (don't know what sizes are 
available), and then after xmas they take the tree back and refund 
the deposit portion of your money, and they plant the tree or otherwise 
do something more ecologically nice with it.  I think I'm going to look 
into it this year...

Okay, who has the info on this ???
--
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
Deanna J. Deeds                                        deeds@solaria.hac.com
From: ted.jensen@spacebbs.com (Ted Jensen) 
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: Elastic Rubber Tree
Date: 23 Nov 92 06:35:00 GMT
Distribution: world
Organization: SPACE BBS - Menlo Park, CA - 10 Lines + 4gB - 415-323-4193
Reply-To: ted.jensen@spacebbs.com (Ted Jensen) 


In message <1992Nov22.122244.18843@lmpsbbs.comm.mot.com>
gordonb@mcil.comm.mot.com (Gordon Berkley) wrote:

> I have a ruber tree (ficus elastica) which has been grown indoors
> - until recently.  I finally reached a size that keeping it
> indoors was no longer practical, and I didn't have the heart to
> cut it down to fit.
>
> Sooo, I put this tree outdoors in a very large planter (clay),
> and everyone was happy.  Unfortunately, it started getting windy.
> And windier. Last night I looked outside, and although the
> planter was upright, the tree wasn't !  It had bent over
> completely.  I was able to pick it up and straighten it out, but
> when I let go, droop city!
>
> Suggestions? Although it seems silly with a 6 foot tall tree,
> should I stake it? I tried tieing it on three points, but
> "drooooop".

I once followed a television series on gardening.  In one of its
episodes it discussed the purchase, from nurseries, of trees
which had been staked in pots.  I have forgotten the details but
in essence it pointed out that trees grown inside, in green
houses for example, did not have to develop the strength in their
trunks to deal with the forces of winds.  I believe he pointed
out the proper vs. improper way of staking such trees.  Something
to do with the number of tie points, the looseness of the ties,
and their spacing.  Unfortunately I can't recall said details
though someone else in the net might be able to help you.

If you get no more details I would suggest you:

    a)  stake the tree in 2 or three spots with loose ties so
    that as it moves back and forth in the wind it develops the
    strength in its trunk to counteract the wind.

    b)  over a period of a year or so, loosen the ties even more
    so the tree has room to sway more in response to the wind.

    c) with time, remove the ties.

Note:  I am no expert in this stuff, just trying to pass on what
I saw in TV about a year or so ago.

Hope this helps!  (Also hope a pro. comes up with more details
<g> !).

    Ted Jensen   Redwood City, Calif.


 * SLMR 2.1a * 
                                                                            
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
From: maxfield@athena.cs.uga.edu (Joan C. Maxfield)
Subject: Really bad tangent (was Re: Christmas tree alternative?)
Organization: University of Georgia, Athens
Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1992 02:17:31 GMT

In article <yiic4gx@Unify.Com> ceb@dbrus.Unify.Com (Caroline E. Bryan) writes:
>If he protests that he's not antropomorphizing plants, ask him:
>Does he eat innocent little alfalfa sprouts *while they are still alive*?
>Does he realize that the living remains of those poor little innocent sprouts
>are attacked by powerful gastric juices and they probably die agonizing deaths
>because he can't be bothered to kill them humanely first?  Does he eat
>grains -- the the innocent little unborn babies of innocent plants?  Does he
>dessicate all the moisture out of the little innocent living bodies of the
>innocent little unborn plant babies, then grind those innocent little bodies
>into flour and make bread out of them, or boil those innocent little bodies
>until they're soft and mushy and eat them?  Yecch!  Give me a tough old
>chicken any day -- at least it's probably guilty of fornication, seeing as
>there's no marriage among chickens legally recognized in US courts.

	No No No, you don't understand!!! When I met him he would eat
fish. He figured at least the fish had a chance for a happy life before
they were caught and put into the little can for him.  I, being an
idiot, said "sure, but what about those few agonizing moments between
when the fish is caught and when it finally dies?"  
	He never ate fish again. ( and I hadn't even started in on
fish farms and nets)  If I tell him about the poor rice grains he is
killing, he won't break down and get a real xmas tree, he'll just stop
eating grains!!  This isn't so bad except for the fact that he is the
cook in our house and if he is vegetarian, for the most part, so am I.
AND I DON'T WANT TO BE VEGAN!  I like meat, call me a carnivore!  But
I learned the hard way about pointing out the little inconsistencies
in his life.  

ObGardens: We have decided to purchase a small (2-3 ft) spruce tree
and keep it on our patio.  We will bring it in around Xmas and decorte
it with all (let see 1...2..) 3 of our ornaments.  We are hoping to
keep it with us for many years (a good way to start a tradition) and
plant it when it gets big enough.  Hopefully, by that time we will own
a home (suuuuure!) and have a place to put it.

I will be posting the summary of ideas that I got from the net when I
recieve them all, if you would like for me to exclude your letter for
some reason please let me know!

Thanks for all the great ideas ( and sorry to start such a
controversy!)

Joan

-- 
J. C. Maxfield				maxfield@athena.cs.uga.edu
DISCLAIMER:  I don't speak for the University, but they often speak for me!
From: mnb@voodoo.boeing.com (Mike Burr)
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: Re: Horrible Plants
Date: 16 Nov 92 18:27:56 GMT
Organization: Boeing Graphics project, Bellevue WA

>In article <1992Nov13.210345.18149@cbfsb.cb.att.com>, djd@cbnewsg.cb.att.com (david.j.daulton) writes:
>
>	[Interestingly horrible plants]
>
>> Can anyone add to my list?
>

While visiting Thomas Edison's winter home in Florida I saw an interesting
one. Edison was an avid amature botanist and had his own botanical gardens.
He had a couple of specimens called Dynamite Trees.  The looked like small
Palm trees.  They had seed pods which were about as big as large coconuts
and covered with mean looking spikes.  According to our tour guide, as
the pods ripen they build up pressure and explode with enough force to
be dangerous to people near by.  They remove the pods before they have
a chance to ripen now.


-- 
Michael Burr  Boeing Computer Services, Bellevue WA
              Email:mnb@voodoo.ca.boeing.com
From: pharvey@quack.sac.ca.us (Paul Harvey)
Subject: Re: Ethics in gardening (was Re: Domestication of poison ivy)
Organization: The Duck Pond public unix: +1 408 249 9630, log in as 'guest'.
	<1992Nov13.152842.5843@infonode.ingr.com> 
	<BxtI6u.JFD@watserv2.uwaterloo.ca>
Date: 17 Nov 1992 02:01:42 UTC

In article <BxtI6u.JFD@watserv2.uwaterloo.ca> 
bobw@csg.uwaterloo.ca (Bob Wildfong) writes:
>What do you all think?

Keep the genes in circulation, that's all the plants really ask of us.
Variety is the spice of life.
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
From: watpod78@alfred.carleton.ca (Phil Culhane)
Subject: Pruning (in particular, a sugar maple and a linden)
Organization: Carleton University
Date: Mon, 23 Nov 1992 16:42:26 GMT

Help!

From what I understand, most of the guys who work for companies that
prune trees just kind of look at your tree and say "Hey, yeah, how but
that one?"  ZZZZZINNNNNGGGG!!  Branch gone.  I'd like to learn how to
prune properly.  Is there a bible of proper tree pruning?

Phil
From: myahgula@questor.org (Michael Yahgulanaas)
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: Fruit & Nut trees
Date: Fri, 20 Nov 92 23:54:22 PST
Organization: Questor|Free Usenet News|Vancouver, BC: +1 604 681 0670

There is asmall community of indigenous persons living at latitude 54 40 
on the northern shores of a large archipelago called Haida Gwaii. The 
colonial maps read Queen Charlotte Islands. The climate is temperate and 
marine ( wet ) and major wind storms occurfrequently and especially in 
the fall.  This community is considering planting an area of some 10 
acres with food producing trees. The site includes standing water, 3 
meter organic ( coniferious forest humus ) on top of marine gravels and 
sand. Slight northern aspect subjects lands to occasional arctic winds 
off south east Alaska. Looking for information on type of food producing 
trees that might be approriate, available. Important social 
reconstruction work underway.

Thanks for the moment.

Chief Councillor of the Village Council of Old Massett, Haida GWaiis/
s/


--
  Michael Yahgulanaas (myahgula@questor.org)
    | QUESTOR:  Free Dial-in Public Access to Usenet Health, Medical News |
    | & AIDS forums, and Info on Global Environment at  +1 604  681 0670. |
From: rick@solbourne.com (Rick Gillespie)
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: Re: Christmas tree alternative?
Date: 17 Nov 1992 13:41:36 -0700
Organization: Solbourne Computer, Inc., Longmont, CO
NNTP-Posting-Host: dodge.solbourne.com

In article <lgi9grINN85d@jethro.Corp.Sun.COM> maynard@anchor.Corp.Sun.COM (Alexandra R. Ohlson) writes:
>And of course I get sad seeing all the Christmas trees on the curb
>after New Year's...but then I anthropomorphize everything. It's actually
>a lovely tradition - bringing a little of nature inside to live with.
>Now if only it would snow in this silly N. Califoria climate!

Here in Boulder they recycle the Christmas trees, either as mulch
or by sinking them in lakes to act as fish habitats. Do any other
localities do things like this? I agree it is abhorrent to just toss
them in the landfill, but I also feel that way about all my neighbours
that pack up their grass clippings in plastic bags in the summer.

	Rick Gillespie
	"This opinion is mine, and what it is"
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
From: billmc@microsoft.com (Bill McJohn)
Subject: Re: hillside retaining plants for the NE???
Date: 18 Nov 92 17:01:17 GMT
Organization: Microsoft Corporation

In article <1992Nov12.223556.10096@bass.lkw.com> brighid@bass.lkw.com 
(Brighid) writes:
>
>
>So, any suggestions for the other side of the country? I'm
>a cold zone 5, with some shady and some sunny areas. About
>80% is a slope of one variety. And, luckily, I don't have to
>worry about too little water. Just too much in March through
>May! :)
>
Perhaps daylilies (Hemerocalis sp.) or Siberian iris (Iris sibirica)
would do the trick.

Newsgroups: rec.gardens
From: C11815@maccvm.corp.mot.com (Josette Giacobbi)
Subject: "Kricket Krap" fertilizer
Organization: Motorola
Date: 20 Nov 1992 13:58:35 CST

True, this company has a fertilizer called "Kricket Krap". Organic. They
raise krickets for fishing. You can buy it by the jar. Cute present.
The catalog is free:  Bricker's Organic Farms, Inc.  824 Sandbar Ferry Road, Au
gusta, GA 30901.  Telephone 1-706-722-0661. There are quite a few things
to chose from.  I'm only about 1 hour from there, and I didn't even know
they existed until I saw their aid in "Organic Gardening"   Josette
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
From: josh@Happy-Man.com (Joshua_Putnam)
Subject: Re: Christmas tree alternative?
Reply-To: Joshua_Putnam@happy-man.com
Organization: Happy Man Corp., Vashon Island, WA 98070-7399
Distribution: usa
Date: Tue, 17 Nov 1992 22:17:42 GMT

In <1992Nov17.190036.17126@infonode.ingr.com> jim@doink.b23b.ingr.com (James B. Reed) writes:

>In article <1992Nov17.161528.28937@cbnewse.cb.att.com>, pwyc@cbnewse.cb.att.com (peter.w.chen) writes:
>|> I don't understand the argument that "it'll be cut down anyway".  It was cut
>|> down because the X tree speculators anticipated demand for it.  If there was
>|> no demand, it would not have been cut down.

>Actually, if there was no demand, it would not have been planted in the
>first place.  The vast majority of Christmas trees purchased in the U.S.
>are grown on Christmas Tree Farms, not harvested from "the wild".

Not only that, but if there isn't enough demand for all the
trees reaching marketable heights, they will end up getting
cut down anyway to make room for a new crop of small trees.
There is very little market for trees over 8-10 feet tall,
so the tree farmers just want to get rid of them.  If you go
out to a tree farm yourself instead of buying a tree from a
middleman, you can probably get an over-10' tree for no more
than an 8' tree.  (Actually, if you go out to a tree farm
around here, you can get a beautiful 10' tree for about what
those 2' potted ones cost in a store.  You get to cut it
down yourself, or dig it up if they let you.  They might not
want you diggin out a live tree -- filling all those holes
in the topsoil is a real pain.)
-- 
 Joshua_Putnam@happy-man.com    Happy Man Corp.  206/463-9399 x102
 4410 SW Pt. Robinson Rd., Vashon Island, WA  98070-7399  fax x108
 We publish SOLID VALUE for the intelligent investor.  NextMail OK
Info free; sample $20: Send POSTAL addr: Solid-Value@happy-man.com
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: "big tree"
From: thacker@RHEA.ARC.AB.CA
Date: 18 Nov 92 11:09:08 MDT
Reply-To: thacker@RHEA.ARC.AB.CA
Organization: Alberta Research Council

I live in Edmonton, Alberta.  A couple of years ago while on vacation
in California I bought seeds for the coast redwood (Sequoia sempervirens)
and the "big tree" (Sequoia gigantea).  Several of each germinated
and are now growing well.  What I want to know is whether the big
tree would have any chance of surviving outdoors here, even to a
bush size?
     
While in one of the big tree groves I was suprised at how much snow
there was (it was Feb. or Mar.), and remember the ranger saying that
it had dropped to -20F earlier that winter.  How cold does it get 
where big trees grow?

The winter climate in Edmonton can be pretty tough on some trees for
2 reasons: extreme cold and wildly fluctuating temperatures that break
winter dormancy and leave the tree succeptible to dessication or cold.

With regard to cold, I have lived in the suburbs and outlying communities
here for 6 years, and in two of those winters the lowest temperature did
not reach -20F (thank you El Nino), but in two other winters it hit
-40F on the coldest winter night.  Maybe -30 to -35 would be the average
coldest night.

The fluctuating temperatures can be more of a problem for evergreens.
Snow is usually on the ground here from mid-November to late March, but
in some winters we get mild spells that melt all the snow in Jan. or
Feb., causing the trees to break dormancy and transpire, but they can't
get moisture from the frozen soil.  Last year was very bad, with 
temperatures as warm as 60F in February, followed by sub-zero cold
in March.

Evergreens like jack pine, lodgepole pine, and white spruce are
native to this area, while others like Colorado blue spruce, swiss
stone pine, ponderosa pine, and bristlecone pine seem fully hardy.
Eastern white pine only seems really vigorous in certain spots, and
trees such as ginko, horse chestnut and sugar maple are not considered
hardy, although there are some lovely 18 inch diameter sugar maples
growing here (either in favoured microclimates or especially hardy
individuals?).

So what do you think?  Should I just treat my big tree as an indoor
specimen, or would it have any hope outdoors (with special protection
or not).  It's only a foot tall, with a foot spread now but it's 
quite a nice looking little big tree.

(I should have added that the dessication problem is usually easily
overcome by remembering to water sensitive evergreens heavily just
before freeze-up).

Comments?
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
From: jim@doink.b23b.ingr.com (James B. Reed)
Subject: Re: Christmas tree alternative?
Reply-To: jimreed@b23b.b23b.ingr.com
Organization: Intergraph Corporation, Huntsville, AL.
Date: Tue, 17 Nov 1992 17:48:25 GMT

In article <1992Nov17.092118.5813@athena.cs.uga.edu>, maxfield@athena.cs.uga.edu (Joan C. Maxfield) writes:
|> OK, I know this is going to sound REALLY odd, but:
|> 	Does anyone have any ideas for 'alternate' types of christmas
|> trees?

If you think the question is odd, wait until you read my answer...

My parents used to decorate their pencil tree in addition to having
a "regular" tree.  I remember several visitors commenting "Look at
that it's lost all it's leaves!"  They couldn't use any real heavy
ornaments, but it was different.

What?  You don't know what a pencil tree is?  (I guess this
posting could go in the "odd plants" category too.)

It's a succulent.  If I remember right, it's closely related to
the poinsetta, but looks completely different.  This plant is
almost all green stalk and green branches with tiny leaves on
new growth that don't last too long.  I guess it's called a
pencil tree because the branches are round and segmented (sort
of like a bunch of pencils fastened together).  The segments are
generally smaller than a pencil though.

My parent's started decorating theirs when it was about 3 or 4 feet
tall.  They would move it outside in the summer and inside in
the winter, but when it got to about 6 feet they left it out
to freeze (I had rooted some cuttings first).  The only larger
ones I've seen were in the greenhouse at Biltmore, those touched
the ceiling about 30 feet up.

-- 
James B. Reed                | If at first you don't succeed,
Intergraph Corporation       | Find out why,
jimreed@b23b.b23b.ingr.com   | **THEN** try again.
From: Bob.Batson@mtask.omahug.org (Bob Batson)
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
Subject: Re: Meal moths (was Re: fungus gnats)
Date: 22 Nov 92 13:45:50 CST
Reply-To: bob.batson@mtask.omahug.org
Organization: Multitasking Systems, Kansas City
Followup-To: rec.gardens

woodley@hpcc01.corp.hp.com (Judy Woodley) writes:

 JW> I've never seen the pheromone traps in stores.  Where might one find
 JW>  them?

The mail-order firm GARDENS ALIVE (P.O. Box 149, Sunman, IN 47041, U.S.A.;
816-623-3800 [orders only]) sells pheromone traps for Indian Meal Moths.
They also sell pheromone traps for Corn Earworms, Cabbage Loopers, Peach
Tree Borers, Cherry Fruit Flies, Codling Moths, & Apple Maggots.

Send for their latest FREE catalog.

*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*

Bob Batson
bob.batson@mtask.omahug.org

PS - I'm not affiliated with this company in any way.

Newsgroups: rec.gardens
From: pyle@intellistor.com (Norm Pyle)
Subject: Re: Christmas tree alternative?
Organization: Intellistor, Longmont, CO
Date: Wed, 18 Nov 92 00:41:59 GMT

In article <1eb5k9INNe8r@transfer.stratus.com> jmann@vineland.pubs.stratus.com writes:
>In article <1eb20eINN4oi@cat.cis.Brown.EDU>  
>GE777009@brownvm.brown.edu (Jenna Cole-Steele) writes:
>> i think its a huge waste to cut down trees just to use as
>> christmas trees, regardless of the "poor tree" argument,
>> how about the " poor earth" argument?
>> 
>
>I don't buy this argument, since most Christmas trees are
>actually grown on tree farms, and replanted as soon as they
>are harvested.  At least, that's the case with all the 
>places that I know of around here, including the place
>I buy from every year (most of whose trees come from the acres and
>acres of tree farm that they own).

I don't buy the argument either.  Many areas are being overplanted,
changing the environment for the worse (higher humidity in Arizona
and Colorado is not what Mother Nature intended).  If everyone buys
and plants another evergreen every year, well, I prefer to keep
recycling them from the tree farm.  This way there is a fixed number
rather than an ever increasing number.

>> This year, my new husband and i will start a new tradition of
>> getting a balled and bagged tree, and donating it to Keep
>> Providence Beautiful

Go ahead, just don't think you're doing anything better than the
person who uses a tree cut from a farm and recycles it.  Think about it.

Norm
Newsgroups: rec.gardens
From: bbeer@stein.u.washington.edu (Bob Beer)
Subject: Re: Horrible Plants
Organization: University of Washington, Seattle
Date: Tue, 17 Nov 1992 01:03:19 GMT

Here in the Pacific Northwest, we have Devil's Club.  It is a small tree with 
large (about 1 1/2 feet across) that look sort of sycamore-like.  The leaves,
petioles and trunk (which never gets much more than 1 1/2 - 2" across) is 
densely covered in half-inch spines which break off easily.  A friend of mine 
who hikes a lot says that when one is going up a steep incline and needs to
grab a branch for support, there is *always* a devil's club there just waiting
for you...

Actually it is a pretty nice-looking plant, and is great for a back corner of
a garden where you *never* have to get too close.  It has a cluster of red
berries in the center in late summer.

I believe the Latin name is Oplopanax horridum.


Newsgroups: rec.gardens
From: snyder@henry.ece.cmu.edu (John Snyder)
Subject: Re: Christmas tree alternative?
Organization: Physics Department, Carnegie Mellon University
Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1992 00:43:23 GMT

In article <3350@voodoo.UUCP> mnb@voodoo.boeing.com (Mike Burr) writes:
>In article <1992Nov17.190036.17126@infonode.ingr.com> jimreed@b23b.b23b.ingr.com writes:
>>
>>Actually, if there was no demand, it would not have been planted in the
>>first place.  The vast majority of Christmas trees purchased in the U.S.
>>are grown on Christmas Tree Farms, not harvested from "the wild".
>>
>
>This is generally true, but I'd like to add a few counter points...
>not to spoil anybodys Christmas you understand - just some food for
>thought.
>
>A.  In some cases the land the tree farms are on wouldn't have been
>    cleared in the first place.  And in general basic farming practices
>    are in effect on xmas tree farms - ie. "Kill everything that could
>    harm the crop with pesticides, etc."  So I'm not convienced that
>    xmas tree farms are a net benifit to the environment.
>

One can just as easily argue that Christmas-tree growing preserves
already-cleared farmland that otherwise would be sold for use
as housing developments or shopping malls.  I'll wager that
many more Christmas trees are grown on existing farms than
are grown on freshly-cleared land.  

As to "general basic farming practices", the same can be said for 
broccoli-growing.  Seriously, if you have a problem with growing
a crop for decoration instead of food, consider these:

1)  Do you wear natural-fiber clothing?  What about all that
farmland devoted to cotton agriculture?  All that rangeland
over-grazed by sheep?  All those dead silkworms?

2)  Do you wear leather shoes?  Again, what about all that
over-grazed rangeland turning to desert?  And all those dead cattle?

3)  Do you use paper decorations?  Paper napkins?  Paper Kleenexes?
I believe that a sizeable number of wild forest trees are cut for paper.

[...some stuff deleted...]


John
snyder@henry.ece.cmu.edu

Newsgroups: rec.gardens
From: kell@lark.jsc.nasa.gov (TED KELL)
Subject: WANTED: Carob pods
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.3-4   
Reply-To: kell@lark.jsc.nasa.gov
Organization: NASA Johnson Space Flight Center - Clear Lake City, TX, USA
Distribution:  usa
Date: 23 NOV 92 09:49:38    

My daughter is doing a classroom presentation on the carob tree.  I have been
trying to find some carob pods in the local stores with no success.  I have
read that there are lots of carob trees in California.  Is there anyone out
there that could package up 4 or 5 with perhaps some leaves off a tree and
send them this way??  I would, of course, be happy to pay for the shipping
costs to here (Houston, Texas).

In reading her references, I see that they appear to grow in zone 9.  Does
anyone have any idea if they would grow here?  We get, on the average, about
50 inches of rain per year.

Ted Kell     kell@lark.jsc.nasa.gov 
Newsgroups: rec.gardens