From: josip@eng.umd.edu (Josip Loncaric)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.croatia,soc.culture.yugoslavia,soc.culture.bosna-herzgvna
Subject: Re: WWII, again (was Re: Dr. Mishitch, the Bishop of Mostar)
Date: 19 Dec 92 20:31:25 GMT
Organization: University of Maryland

In article <1992Dec19.101035.18694@husc3.harvard.edu> stojanov@husc11.harvard.edu (Milan Stojanovic) writes:
>
>[...]  Mr. Loncaric is not 
>ignorant, on the contrary, he is just evil.

Gentle readers, please note that this is the result of my quoting the
results of demographic studies on Yugoslav WWII losses, 
which Mr. Stojanovic disagrees with.  

These same studies are accepted as the best available information on
the subject: even Serbian historians (eg. Aleksa Djilas) and pro-Serbian
reporters (eg. Robert D. Kaplan) agree that these studies, which take 
into account the earlier estimates as well as hard data, are "the most
systematic and objective" studies so far. (Quoted from Aleksa Djilas).

By contrast, Mr. Stojanovic has been trying to defend Serbian policies
in Croatia and in Bosnia-Herzegovina.  Make your own judgement.

>Read Mr. Loncaric's favourite " Enciklopedija Jugoslavije."
>They say about Jasenovac that most often mentioned numbers are
>from 500-700.000 ( the first one is accepted in Encyclopedia of
>Holocaust and is used in McNeil@Lehrer news as "official").  
>As extreme views are mentioned 40.000 ( Tudjman ) and 1,000.000
>( Vlada Terzic ).  I am well below extreme.  I have never claimed
>1,000.000.  I think that figure between 300-400.000 is easily 
>defended by many different methods.  

There is a reason behind most figures people have proposed.  But, to
arrive at the most accurate conclusion, all sources of information
must be cross-examined and evaluated.  This is what the studies I have
quoted have done, concluding that in the former Yugoslavia in WWII there
were 216,000 people killed in Yugoslav concentration camps.  Out of this
number, 85,000 were from the Bosnia-Herzegovina, 79,000 were
from Serbia (with autonomous provinces), and 48,000 were from Croatia.
(territories mentioned are post-WWII).  Some part of the total of 133,000
people from Croatia and Bosnia-Herzegovina probably perished in Jasenovac,
although there were other concentration camps on the NDH territory.

Concerning Jasenovac, the special Yugoslav federal commission of war losses
(1964) established the total number of victims as 49,875.  This number
cites the victims by name, with relevant facts about each person, and
the documentation of the commission is available to researchers in
the Archives of Yugoslavia in Belgrade in no fewer than 2,990 boxes.
Needless to say, this number of victims can hardly be considered
as final or complete.  But, the above-quoted demographic studies
show that Mr. Stojanovic's figures are not credible.  In fact, in his
Nov. 25, 1991 article in the New Republic, Robert D. Kaplan estimates
the number of Jasenovac victims at 80,000-120,000.  Many of these victims
were Serbs, but also Jews, Gypsies, anti-fascist Croats, and, as
Mr. Stojanovic admits, Bosnian Muslims.

I do not think that the final verdict on Jasenovac is out yet.  But,
there is a serious problem with Mr. Stojanovic's claims.  The problem
arises because Serbian nationalists had, ever since Yugoslavia was
formed, sought expansion of Serbia as a reward for their suffering,
including both world wars.  That Serbs had suffered is clear.  That
this justifies their domination over other peoples does not follow,
and yet this argument is often made.  And if a hundred thousand
Serbian deaths does not convince, then a million is claimed.

It is tragic that so many innocent Serbs died in WWII.  However,
most of the persons responsible have been punished in wholescale Partisan
reprisals after WWII, trials, etc.  Mr. Stojanovic will say that
some were not punished, but punishing the guilty is not what interests
him: what bothers him is the very existence of Croatia.  One cannot
build a sensible policy on that basis.  Serbia and Croatia should
let each other exist, and agree to respect the rights of their
minorities.  All other civilized nations have found a way to do likewise.

--Josip
Newsgroups: soc.culture.croatia,soc.culture.yugoslavia,soc.culture.bosna-herzgvna