From: aap@wam.umd.edu (Alberto Adolfo Pinkas)
Subject: Re: Human Rights in Cuba
Organization: University of Maryland, College Park
Distribution: usa
Date: Mon, 4 Jan 1993 16:09:45 GMT

In article <20687@ucdavis.ucdavis.edu> ez000281@hamlet.ucdavis.edu writes:
>Alberto Pinkas writes:

>
>Perhaps for you, but I don't believe there is such a thing as a Jewish race, 
>for there are Jews of all races (including the Africans who are not recognized 
>by Israel.)  Yo see Adolfo, I don't believe there is such a thing as "jewish 
>race" just as I don't believe there is an arian race.

I have never said that there was a Jewish race. And, certainly, I oppose 
such an idea, as I previously stated in other newsgroups (t.p.m. and
a.s.m. come to mind).
The Jewish people constitutes a nation with its own culture, tradition,
language, muesic, literature, etc. So, Judaism has nothing to do with
race but is not just a religion. A similar case can be founsd among Armenians.
Belonging to the Jewish nation is having that culture, that has been
passed from generation to generation in spite of the diaspora.
About the arian race, what you need is an education. 


>
>>A large number of people who support marxism are also Jews. Even more,
>>some of them are zionists and live in Israel.
>
>Well, Adolfo, one thing is to support Marxism, another is to believe in 
>Marxism, particularly the tenets related to the non existence of god.  It 
>certainly seems funny to concieve of people who believe in the Pentateuch, and 
>at the same time deny the existence of god.

Being Jewish is to belong to the Jewish nation or people, and has nothing
to do with believen in the Pentateuch or in the Jewish religion.
Being Jewish does not mean to believe in god but to belong to the
Jewish nation and to have a Jewish culture. 


>
>>As a first reference comes to my mind Leon Rozitchner, who wrote the
>>book "Ser Judio", where he explains how many Jews are atheists, marxists,
>>and proud of their being Jewish.
>
>Well that's his point of view.  I guess if you adopt it you could ultimately 
>prove that Pope John XXIII and Ernesto Cardenal were Marxists simlply because 
>the belong to the "roman" or "latin" "race" and believe in proletarian 
>revoultions.

It has nothing to do. The Pope and Cardenal are priests of a particular
religion. Jews are members of a particualr nation or cultural and ethnic
group.
Judaism is not just Jewish religion.


>
>>There is also a book from J. P. Sartre about anti-semitism.
>>Is is also interesting to point out that quite many of those who went
>>to Israel during the first years after independence were zionists
>>who wanted a jewish-socialist state.
>
>Alberto, lets not confuse thing any more. One thing is to be a marxist another 
>the Fabians, the Social Democrats, etc..., so it isn't strange to see a 
>"socialist" "Labor" party in Israel which deports Palestian fundamentalists a 
>la Third Reich.

So?
I am talking about what it means to be Jewish. Period.
Being Jewish does not mean to be a religious person.
Actually, the Labor party in Israel is mostly secular, and a lot of Jews
in Israel are not religious (agnostics/atheist).

>
>>So, like before, when talking about Jews living in homes during WWII, you
>>are either mistaken or against the truth.
>
>Alberto, I'm still waitin

this is an irrelevant question, and you are trying to change the subject
again. You said that Jews lived in homes DURING WWII. I said that you were
wrong.
Where my family lived before WWII or after it is irrelevant. The point here
is where did they live DURING WWII.

>
>Edelmiro

Como se dice por ahi, A~o Nuevo, Vida Nueva, asi que dejo este debate en
manos de aquel que lo quiera seguir, y no me voy a poner a debatir con
alguien que cambia de tema cuando se le muestra que dijo una barbaridad.
Quizas haya que esperar que Univision le explique a Salas que los Judios
son un pueblo, y que el judaismo va mas alla de una religion, y que la
pertenencia al pueblo judio no es necesariamente una pertenencia religiosa
sino que cultural.
Quizas haya que esperar a que Univision le explique a Salas que existen
judios que son ateos, porque judaismo no es sinonimo de religion.
Y, finalmente, habra que esperar que Univision le epxlique a Salas que
la condicion de los Judios "durante" la Segunda Guerra Mundial no era
la que el presento: vivian an casas. Y que la condicion durante un
evento no es lo mismo que antes o despues.

Asi, que como decia Miller: I am out of here.



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