HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: mcgrath@cs.uiuc.edu (Robert McGrath)
Newsgroups: alt.consciousness
Subject: Re: Julian Jaynes: The Origin of Consciousness . . .
Date: 14 Oct 92 17:54:35 GMT
Reply-To: mcgrath@cs.uiuc.edu
Organization: University of Illinois, Dept of Computer Science

In article <cvoidis.719072556@yorku.ca>, cvoidis@nexus.yorku.ca (Chris Voidis) writes in part:
|> mshute@cs.man.ac.uk (Malcolm Shute) writes:
|> 
|> 
|> 
|> >So... my thesis for this posting is that the modern mind is polycameral
|> >and that the more primitive ones are unicameral?
|> >Any takers?
|> >--
|> 
|> >Malcolm SHUTE.         (The AM Mollusc:   v_@_ )        Disclaimer: all
|> 
|> 
|> 
|> 	Well, I would take only the first half of your thesis. Namely,
|> yes, the modern mind is polycameral, but I am not so sure about the
|> second half that tends to look at `primitive' minds as unicameral.
[...]
|> 	Perhaps the path we need to take is that of recognizing the
|> polycamerality of mind in general.  A mind `is', only in relation to a
|> world, and if I understand polycamerality in the way you mean it, then
|> it is the property of the mind to let aspects, objects or dynamic
|> systems of that world speak through it.  
The "bicameral" versus "unicameral" distinction refers to brain structures,
not mental structures.  Your definition of "polycamerality" is
completely incompatible with Jaynes' ideas, which were the origin
of this string.  (Also, "the property of the mind to let aspects, objects 
or dynamic systems of that world speak through it" is totally opaque to
me.)

|> 	Now, I see no need to make the mind unicameral as we travel
|> backwards through the evolutionary lines.  
This, of course, it total nonsense.

|> 	So my thesis for today is that mind in general is polycameral,
|> and that the worlds that these minds or Mind inhabit are infinitely
|> rich and varied.  And furthermore, polycamerality may be the transport
|> between these worlds and minds.  
Since I don't understand your definition of polycamerality, it its
difficult to evalutate this thesis.  Saying that 'minds' inhabit
worlds is definitely a doubtful philosophical claim.  And I have,
no idea at all what you mean by "transport between" worlds and minds,
so couldn't guess what "polycamerality".

|> 	Anyone schizoid enough to take this on?!
I'm schizoid enough to admit that your comments are so incoherent and
incomprehensible that I have no idea wha tyou are really talking about.
Newsgroups: alt.consciousness
From: beleg@mighty-joe.isri.unlv.edu (Andrew Bagdanou)
Subject: Re: Julian Jaynes: The Origin of Consciousness . . .
Reply-To: beleg@isri.unlv.edu
Organization: UNLV Computer Science and Electrical Engineering
Date: Thu, 15 Oct 92 03:06:19 GMT

Mr. Gilbert,
     To begin, 	I believe the buddha was teaching release from both
worldly suffering and mental anguish.  Some believe that mental
anguish can be the cause of worldly suffering.  In other words,
thought creates reality.  If this is so, death, illness, physical
exhaustion, and other forms of suffering may possibly affect us in
different ways or may no longer remain issues at all. (Please
understand I realise the extremity of this statement.)  
     I agree with you that consciousness is necessary but not enough
to achieve enlightenment.  I believe two other important factors to be
openness and, more importantly, willingness.  I believe enlightenment
delivers new information and at the same time is brought on,
partially, by new information.  One must be open and willing to learn.
     I believe that consciousness is what the buddha discovered that
made it possible for him to discover something else.  Whatever the
something is is so complex, and yet simple, it cannot be spoken
through verbal communication.
     To complete this message, I'd like to address utopianism.  I have
one thing to say:

     "Imagine
         the universe beautiful
             and just and
                 perfect,
      
      Then be sure of one thing:
         the Is has imagined it
             quite a bit better
                than you
                  have."        --- Richard Bach, Illusions


Newsgroups: alt.consciousness
From: wallace@titan.trl.OZ.AU (Glenn Wallace)
Subject: Re: ABORTION: WHEN Does human Life BEGIN?
Organization: Telecom Research Labs, Melbourne, Australia
Date: Thu, 8 Oct 1992 23:14:50 GMT

Ya know, people keep looking at the cycle between conception and birth
to try and draw the line at where life begins.

I read a Philip K Dick scifi story about a future society allowing
abortions up to the age of 12.

That is, if your kid was a brat, or you just plain didn't want them, you
could take them down to the abortion clinic and have them aborted.

Forget the prolife/prochoice crap.. I'm not really violently either
way....

Dick's story (the meaning *I* personally got from it) is that when you
start drawing lines... they can be shifted. It is a tough thing to do,
to say "well, ok at THIS point it is ok to kill/abort this foetus, but
NOT after this point."

No-one (at the moment) is wanting children to be aborted AFTER birth as
in the fictional story mentioned above, but it does make you think,
perhaps one day....

Glenn

PS don't take this as either pro-life or pro-choice. You could interpret
it either way. :-P

I guess I lean towards pro-life, but then each case should be taken on
its merits which is pro-choice.... so go figure. Don't try and convert
me as it is an issue which I don't intend to have to face in my life.

Net: g.wallace@trl.oz.au | Help me escape this country! You can't buy Jolt
RealTime: Glenn Wallace  | here, and they don't have Tower records, or
Work: Telecom Australia  | Fry's or anything! Argh.... Oh to be at WDW!
      Drift Project      | I'm on the next plane outta here!
From: mcgrath@cs.uiuc.edu (Robert McGrath)
Subject: Re: LIQUID FASTING DIET
Reply-To: mcgrath@cs.uiuc.edu
Organization: University of Illinois, Dept of Computer Science
Date: Wed, 14 Oct 1992 20:37:35 GMT

In article <1992Oct13.172924.1720@cnsvax.uwec.edu>, mcelwre@cnsvax.uwec.edu writes in part:
|>           
|>           
|>                               LIQUID FASTING DIET
Why is this posted here?
From: mshute@cs.man.ac.uk (Malcolm Shute)
Newsgroups: alt.consciousness
Subject: Re: Julian Jaynes: The Origin of Consciousness . . .
Date: 12 Oct 92 10:00:31 GMT
Organization: Dept Computer Science, University of Manchester, U.K.

In article <1992Oct8.151707.15169@unix.brighton.ac.uk> Richard Griffiths writes:
>>In article <whatever> I wrote:
>>Forgive my ignorance, but what is the 'bicameral mind'?
>>How is it defined, what are it's properties?
>>And how many alternatives are there to it... is the alternative
>>merely called the 'modern mind', or something?
>I suppose the alternative to bicameral is the conscious or unicameral

Interesting.  You think it moves in that direction.  So that consciousness
has resulted from a unification of the mind... and perhaps by extrapolation,
that the 'lower' animals have polycameral minds??

In a sense, I'm surprised that this was your answer.
Could it be that the 'lower' animals are the ones which are more likely to
have one-track minds, whereas humans are more likely to have the capacity to
split off bits of the mind for running little simulations.

From what I've been told (here in this group) about Jaynes' hypothesis...
the bicameral mind could stack up pre-programmed orders from the tribal
chief, for execution when the situation demanded it.

Supposing his hypothesis to be true, for the moment, would it not be more
likely that this capacity was refined, rather than removed, in the modern mind.

Suppose that I got myself into some dreadful situation... say, I gambled myself
into enormous debt.  I can, in my mind, see the scene now... how my family
would react, what they would say to me, and to each other.

Doesn't this sound like the same phenomenon?  Predicting how my family would
react, what they would say, is an extension of predicting what the tribal
chief would say and tell me to do.

Just before the Summer break, I posted a suggestion that consciousness might
be tried up with the ability to consider others, to put oneself in their
position (whether 'they' be human, animal, vegitable, or mineral), to predict
what their next moves would be (for both preditors and prey).

This, again, relies on being able to run little simulations of the objects
in question, perhaps?

So... my thesis for this posting is that the modern mind is polycameral
and that the more primitive ones are unicameral?
Any takers?
--

Malcolm SHUTE.         (The AM Mollusc:   v_@_ )        Disclaimer: all
Newsgroups: alt.consciousness
From: cavrak@emba-news.uvm.edu.UUCP (Steve Cavrak)
Subject: Re: dharma
Originator: cavrak@newton.emba.uvm.edu
Organization: University of Vermont -- Division of EMBA Computer Facility
Distribution: alt.consciousness
Date: Fri, 16 Oct 1992 03:09:36 GMT

From article <ntqpa+j@lynx.unm.edu>, by bennett@deepthought.unm.edu (Paul Bennett):

       What is dharma?

Law.  1. The ultimate law of all things.  2. Individual right conduct
in conformity to this law.  From the Sanskrit, dher-.

American Heritage Dictionary.

Newsgroups: alt.consciousness
From: bennett@deepthought.unm.edu (Paul Bennett)
Subject: 2 questions
Date: Mon, 12 Oct 92 23:51:47 GMT
Organization: Dept. of Math & Stat, University of New Mexico, Albuquerque
Distribution: alt.consciousness
Keywords: darshan

       What is darshan? (Also, is the spelling correct?) The term is used
in a couple of books I have been reading recently, and I thought that this
group would be the most reasonable place to find out.

       As far as I can tell, it is a specific time just about every day
when a guru or spiritual teacher of some sort teaches certain lessons. 
Could somebody please elaborate?
       

* Paul Bennett                   
* bennett@gauss.unm.edu         
* (Just eternally curious....)
From: zlsiida@fs1.mcc.ac.uk (dave budd)
Newsgroups: alt.consciousness
Subject: Re: Julian Jaynes: The Origin of Consciousness . . .
Date: 15 Oct 92 12:18:36 GMT
Organization: Manchester Computing Centre

In article <markg.56.718681316@county.lmt.mn.org> markg@county.lmt.mn.org (Mark Gilbert) writes:

>In article <1992Oct8.034505.18502@unlv.edu> beleg@cash.isri.unlv.edu (Andrew Bagdanou) writes:

>>Mr. Gilbert,
>>     I have a question for you.  If we consider what the Buddha
>>discovered to be a release from suffering, then how can Mr. Kennaway
>>be right?  If I interpreted you correctly, you are suggesting that the
>>analyzation of suffering is what allows us to rise above the
>>condition.  I believe analyzation to be an ability due to logic and/or

It's not the analysis of suffering that allows us to rise above it.
Analysis lets us find out what are the true causes of suffering, so that
we can then remove them (not quite the same as 'rise above them').
Buddha's main finding is that most suffering is down to attachment to the 
world, eg lusting after sex as opposed to just enjoying it when it happens 
and so on.  You get propelled through your life by a mass of relatively 
uncontrollable desires, unless you sit down and analyse what's happening.
When you dispense with all the desires, enlightenment may come - but even 
then I don't think it's automatic.


              Have another day    [Armageddon, the musical] 
  Dave Budd, MCC, Oxford Rd, Manchester, England   (44|0)61-275-6033
From: mcgrath@cs.uiuc.edu (Robert McGrath)
Newsgroups: alt.consciousness
Subject: Re: Julian Jaynes: The Origin of Consciousness . . .
Date: 8 Oct 92 15:37:31 GMT
Reply-To: mcgrath@cs.uiuc.edu
Organization: University of Illinois, Dept of Computer Science

In article <6373@m1.cs.man.ac.uk>, mshute@cs.man.ac.uk (Malcolm Shute) writes:
|> Forgive my ignorance, but what is the 'bicameral mind'?
|> How is it defined, what are it's properties?
|> And how many alternatives are there to it... is the alternative
|> merely called the 'modern mind', or something?
|> 
|> (Just an ignorant layperson, wanting to find out more in this newsgroup)
|> Thanks.

There is no reason why you should know this--Jaynes invented the "bicameral 
mind", so the best and only source is his book ("The Origins of Consciousness").
Since his stuff leaves me baffled, I will not attempt to explain.  

-- 
  Robert E. McGrath
  Urbana Illinois
  mcgrath@cs.uiuc.edu
Newsgroups: alt,alt.california,alt.activism,alt.sex
From: arsmith@lamar.ColoState.EDU (Alan Smith)
Subject: Re: Recall PETE WILSON
Date: Thu, 15 Oct 1992 20:35:16 GMT
Organization: Colorado State University, Fort Collins, CO  80523

<looks at subject line>

Hmmm. Guess he's broke.

You sure you can't fix him in the field?

Big Al comes with a two year, 20,000 post warannty.
Newsgroups: alt.cd-rom
From: jw@owf.uu.ch (Juerg Wanner)
Subject: Texel DM-3021
Organization: OWF AG Zurich, Switzerland
Date: Thu, 15 Oct 1992 12:54:05 GMT


Does anybody know the above mentioned drive?

Is it an XA drive?
is it capable of reading multisession CDs ?

Thanks for any info

Juerg Wanner	jw@owf.ch
OWF AG
Asylstr. 125
8032 Zuerich
From: 2719weberj@vms.csd.mu.edu (Joe Weber)
Newsgroups: alt.cd-rom
Subject: blank photo-cd and regular cds
Date: 15 Oct 1992 01:47:12 GMT
Organization: Marquette University - Computer Services
Reply-To: 2719weberj@vms.csd.mu.edu
NNTP-Posting-Host: vmsd.csd.mu.edu

Hi all,
Does any one out there know of a good place to buy blank photo-cds?  Or for
that matter an of the regular CDs that you would use with the phillips cd521?
Right now the best prices I am seeing are like $30 a pop!  That has got
to be high, and I want to get a few to play with at work.

Thanks
JOE

Newsgroups: alt.cd-rom
From: gs359650@LANCE.ColoState.Edu (Galen Short)
Subject: Mscdex and Turbo Pascal
Summary: Programming with mscdex
Date: Tue, 13 Oct 1992 04:32:43 GMT
Organization: Colorado State U. Engineering College
Keywords: Turo Pascal, Mscdex

I am trying to program with Turbo Pascal 6.0 and Mscdex.  I am having trouble
getting the drive to play audio.  I can't get anything sent to the driver
using Ax=1510h.  Could someone tell me what is needed to do to access the
device driver?

Thanks
Galen Short

gs359650@longs.lance.colostate.edu

Newsgroups: alt.cd-rom
From: steve@eastend.uucp (Steven Roth)
Subject: Re: Listing Of Available Cd-R
Organization: The East End Computer Ensemble
Distribution: alt
Date: Mon, 12 Oct 1992 14:46:21 GMT

In article <9210061251.aa02445@ax450.mclink.it> Giuseppe Lancia <MC1073@MCLINK.IT> writes:
>Hello, I'm Giuseppe Lancia from Italy. In answer to Steve Pierce (steve@rtfm.mlb
>   .fl.us), here is a list of the discs that are currently available from Walnut
>    Creek CD-ROM (really cheap!):
>
 ...
 ...

>
>X11R5 and GNU CD-ROM.  This disc contains all the X11R5 Window System sources,
>including all the contributed software, all the GNU source code, the Usenet
>comp.sources.x archives, and sparc binaries and libraries for the Gnu programs
>and the X11R5 server and clients.  The X11R5 sources are at patch level nine.
>This disc was made in February 1992, and is also distributed by the Sun User
>Group.  The price is $39.95.
>


Suggest you wait for a later release.  As of 2/92 there were a number of
patches to X11R5 still waiting to happen (and have happened since).

Some for GNU goodies too, as well as a number of new releases of a 
number of GNU programs.

This is standard.  But eight months is a long time as these things go.

Steve Roth
steve@eastend.jpr.com
-- 

_______________________________________________________________________________

Steven Roth, SysOp, Network Node "EastEnd"      Internet: steve@eastend.jpr.com
Newsgroups: alt.cd-rom
From: ycheung@uhunix.uhcc.Hawaii.Edu (Yat Lok L. Cheung)
Subject: Apple CD300 from comp.sys.mac.announce)
Organization: University of Hawaii at Manoa
Date: Sun, 11 Oct 1992 18:57:51 GMT

To those who are following Apple's 300s, here is some info., and pricing...

<Lawrence>...

==============================================================================
From news.hawaii.edu!ames!think.com!sdd.hp.com!cs.utexas.edu!gateway Sun Oct 11 08:53:12 HST 1992
Article 346 of comp.sys.mac.announce:
>From: Apgar@Apple.com (Gar)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.mac.announce
Subject: Apple CD300
Followup-To: comp.sys.mac.hardware
Date: 7 Oct 1992 20:00:20 -0500
Organization: AppleCD-300 Drive announced for Dec 92
NNTP-Posting-Host: cs.utexas.edu

	===========================================================
	[ full announcement text was forwarded to comp.newprod
	[ (where it should appear shortly). if the full PR is not
	[ FTPable from FTP.APPLE.COM, it's Apple's own fault!  }$-)
	[ a condensed version follows.
	[				---Werner (CSMA-moderator)
	===========================================================

//////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////

	     Apple Unveils High-Performance CD-ROM Drive
 
Apple today introduced the new AppleCD 300 CD-ROM drive, available in
both external and internal versions, it is two times faster than most
CD-ROM drives, offers a choice of operating speeds, and supports new
CD-ROM formats, including Kodak Photo CD.

The AppleCD 300 is equipped with a large 256K data buffer.

With a speed select switch the user can choose single- or double-speed mode.

The CD 300 can read multi-session Kodak Photo CD discs.
A Photo CD image is a digitized version of a 35 MM photograph
A multi-session Photo CD disc allows additional photographic images
to be added to images already on it.

The CD 300 also supports several new CD formats, including CD+G and
CD+MIDI.  These new formats allow CD developers to better integrate
audio, text and graphics.  The CD+MIDI format, for example, will
allow professional and amateur musicians to more easily use MIDI-
synthesized music in a CD title.

To introduce new CD 300 users to the array of information available
on CD, Apple will ship a collection of 8 to 10 CD-ROM titles with the
drive.  These will include: Alice to Ocean, by Rick Smolan; Mozart:
String Quartet in C Major, by The Voyager Company; Cinderella, by
Discis Knowledge Research; Nautilus, by Metatec/Discovery Systems;
Photo CD Sampler, by Eastman Kodak Company, and The Chronicles and
Collections CD, by Apple.

An internal version, called the CD 300i, will be available as a
dealer-installable option (requires a 5.25-in. drive bay).

A new version of CD-Setup software (version 4.0.1) also supports
all other CD-ROM drives from Apple.

		   Pricing, Availability and Distribution

The AppleCD 300 will be available in December 1992 and the 300i Internal
Drive Upgrade Kit will be available in January 1993 through authorized
Apple resellers.  All AppleCD 300 drives carry a one-year limited warranty.
Pricing, availability and distribution will vary by country.
 
 
Product                              MSRP           Availability
 
AppleCD 300                         $599.00         December 1992
AppleCD 300i Internal Upgrade Kit   $499.00         January 1993
(Includes installation kit)
======================================================================EOT
From: kingsley@hpwrce.mayfield.hp.com (Kingsley Morse)
Date: Wed, 7 Oct 1992 20:05:25 GMT
Subject: Please Help
Organization: HP Western Response Center
Newsgroups: alt.cd-rom

              Please answer these 9 questions and return.

1.) Do you think equal rights for men and women is generally a good idea?
Yes                  [ ]
Sometimes            [ ]
No                   [ ]
Haven't heard enough [ ]
Other                [ ]

2.) Are you pro choice?
Yes                  [ ]
Sometimes            [ ]
No                   [ ]
Haven't heard enough [ ]
Other                [ ]

3.) Are you in favor of adoption?
Yes                  [ ]
Sometimes            [ ]
No                   [ ]
Haven't heard enough [ ]
Other                [ ]

4.) Do you think men should be allowed to legally terminate their parental
rights and responsibilities before fetal viability?
Yes                  [ ]
Sometimes            [ ]
No                   [ ]
Haven't heard enough [ ]
Other                [ ]

5.) What sex are you?
Male               [ ]
Female             [ ]

6.) How old are you?
Under 18           [ ]
19 to 65           [ ]
Over 65            [ ]

7.) What religion are you?
Protestant         [ ]
Catholic           [ ]
Jewish             [ ]
Other              [ ]

8.) What political party are you affiliated with?
Democratic         [ ]
Republican         [ ]
Other              [ ]

9.) How many years of education have you completed?
Grade School       [ ]
High School        [ ]
College            [ ]
More               [ ]
From: John Lussmyer <dragon@angus.mi.org>
Newsgroups: alt.cd-rom
Subject: Re: Help! CDROM with ESDI?
Date: Mon, 12 Oct 92 19:27:30 EDT
Reply-To: dragon@angus.mi.org
Organization: North Star BBS

oliversp@cnsvax.uwec.edu writes:

> I run a BBS with ESDI hard drive...I am looking into adding one of these new
> cheaper CD Roms...Do I need to get one that will work with ESDI?

No, but you will have to buy an interface card.  Many CD-ROM drives
use SCSI interfaces, but some of the cheaper ones have special
dedicated controller cards for that particular drive.  In all cases
they should work fine with an ESDI controller in the same system.

--
John Lussmyer (dragon@angus.mi.org)
North Star BBS, Royal Oak, MI --------------------------------------------+-
Newsgroups: alt.cd-rom
From: jdecarlo@mitre.org (John DeCarlo)
Subject: Re: Sony CD Rom
Organization: MITRE Corporation, McLean  VA
Distribution: usa
Date: Fri, 9 Oct 1992 11:56:40 GMT

In article <1992Oct8.191053.12290@smsc.sony.com>
 dce@smsc.sony.com (David Elliott) writes:

>Sony sells a couple of different CD-ROM drives.  One is standard SCSI,
>and the other is something called "Sony Bus".  Sony Bus is similar to
>SCSI, but it isn't SCSI, and Sony Bus drives can not (as far as I have
>been able to find out) be converted to SCSI without completely
>replacing the internal controller (which you can't buy).

I was hoping someone would post on this subject, but I have heard on this 
forum (or possibly another cd-rom forum) that someone has successfully 
interfaced the Sony Bus CD-ROM drive to a SCSI adapter, just by connecting 
up the right wires to a compatible plug.

Anyone have any leads on this?

John DeCarlo, MITRE Corporation, McLean, VA--My views are my own
Fidonet:  1:109/131  Internet:  jdecarlo@mitre.org
Newsgroups: alt.cd-rom
From: paul@ace.acadiau.ca (Paul Steele)
Subject: Connecting Apple CDROM drive to a PC
Organization: Acadia University
Distribution: na
Date: Thu, 8 Oct 1992 11:59:40 GMT

I have an Apple CDROM drive that I want to hook up on a PC.  What controller 
and software would I have to install in my PC in order to access the Mac 
CDROM player?

___
Paul Steele, Network Services Manager              902-542-2201x660
Acadia University, Computer Centre            FAX: 902-542-4364
Wolfville, Nova Scotia, Canada, B0P 1X0  Internet: Paul.Steele@acadiau.ca
Newsgroups: alt.cd-rom
From: berger@atropa (Mike Berger)
Subject: Re: Adaptec 1542B Plus NEC CDR74
Organization: University of Illinois at Urbana
Date: Thu, 8 Oct 1992 17:10:05 GMT

mesm@netcom.com (Mary E. S. Morris) writes:
>Why do you want to use the Adptec anyway? Under DOS the Trantor
>card has met my needs (tape compatibility) better than the Adaptec
*----
Well, that IS one of the reasons I got the Adaptec.  What tape
software is available for the Trantor interface?

I have Sytos Plus and DOS-TAR (which really sucks by the way)
from Cactus Systems, but find that I use the modified gnu-tar
(aspitar, and the utility program from gtak100) almost 
exclusively.  I am also considering the Corel-SCSI tape
backup software, which includes a Windows version.  Are all
of these options available for the Trantor interfaces?
Tar is essential, since I move tapes between PC's and Unix
workstations.
--
	Mike Berger
	Department of Statistics, University of Illinois
	AT&TNET     217-244-6067
	Internet    berger@atropa.stat.uiuc.edu
Newsgroups: alt.cd-rom