From: michael@glia.biostr.washington.edu (Michael)
Subject: Re: Gender differences - Sophie Germain
Organization: University of Washington
Date: Mon, 21 Dec 1992 18:18:44 GMT

In <1992Dec20.225509.19966@netcom.com> payner@netcom.com (Rich Payne) writes:

>In article <michael.724427507@glia> michael@glia.biostr.washington.edu (Michael) writes:
>>In <2199@newsserver.cs.uwindsor.ca> bouche2@server.uwindsor.ca (BOUCHER DAVID            ) writes:
>>>This may seem disingenuous to some people, but why does it even MATTER
>>>whether or not the proportions of men and women in science and math are 
>>>equal?  As long as everyone is free to follow their own interests, most 
>>>people are bound to gravitate to whatever they do best.
>>
>>In the long run it won't matter.  But in the short run, there is still
>>pressure in our culture against women becoming a part of scientific
>>fields.  This cultural pressure is a leftover from the days when women
>>didn't enjoy the same rights men did.  Its slowly dissappearing, but it
>>hasn't gone yet.  

>>                  Working towards equal numbers is one way of speeding up
>>the removal of this cultural pressure.

>Sorry,

Please don't be. :)

>       what we have is another cultural pressure.

True.  So? :)

>                                                  And it has neve been shown
>that in the absence of cultural pressures, equal numbers should result. 

No, but more importantly it hasn't been shown that they won't result.
And even more importantly than that, there is clear evidence that equal
numbers haven't been given a chance yet.  And I've seen sufficient
evidence in my experience to believe that equality will result.  Of course
the latter is my opinion.  But then I never claimed it was anything else.

>This body count metric is not a measure of discrimination, there are no cross 
>checks or sanity checks of any kind. 

Not by itself it isn't.  So?

>Like using water on the ground as a measure of rain, it will indeed tell 
>you that there has been rain. But it will also tell you that there has been 
>rain when it snows, when a water main breaks, when someone nearby washes 
>their car...

Well, as I said I'm not using water on the ground as a measure of rain.
Again, So?

>>>It has been my experience that most non-scientists are not very interested
>>>in science, regardless of whether they are male or female.
>>
>>Yes, in the long run, this will no doubt be the rule by which some do join
>>and some don't join the fields of science.
>Maybe you should share your crystal ball with others. It sound like you
>are just parroting political ideology. Last time this happened when people
>listened was with Marxism. I have not noticed that the followers of Marx
>came even remotely close to their ideal goals, or that one was better off
>under their rule.

Maybe you should stop making assumptions about what I'm saying and then
insulting me for them?  Oh but in looking up at your name, I see you are
the same person I just came down on in another post for stuffing words
in someones else mouth and then making fun of them for it.  Seems to be a
repetitive quality you have.

You are welcome however to make assumptions and not insult me.  Then when
I respond I'll be happy to correct them for you.  Of course as I'm about
to go on vacation, I won't be able to do this till I return and may miss
a post or two.  Of course it WILL give you plenty of opportunity to stuff
more words in people's mouths.

    Michael Stanley (michael@glia.biostr.washington.edu)
Newsgroups: alt.feminism