Organization:      LOGISTICS INFORMATION CENTER (IC-LOG)
Motto:          FIRST LINE TECHNICAL SUPPORT
Telephone:                 768-8074/8180
FAX:                   768-7106
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.allmusic
Date:         Wed, 27 Jan 1993 13:10:04 KST
From:         DMetcalf%IC-LOG@WALKER-LTT.ARMY.MIL
Subject:      MORE 'Alternative'

BOB SEZ (in re: my post to newcomer):

>Well, Dick, how about record store personnel, DJs, musicians?
>Not much cause for flaming, as far as I know.  If you're trying to say
>that there are some things that are way farther out than "alternative"
>I'm certainly with you.  In fact a (so far as I know never-used)
>definition on GRUNGE-L of "alternateen" is pejorative.

No flame intended, just tryin' to get it STIRRIN' again... as most of
ye' know, I think it's IMPORTANT for 'someone' to throw in a 'counterpoint'
for a newcomer... I just happened in early-on!

>No.  I think the music "marketplace" is fragmenting and there isn't any
>mainstream any more.

Which means that the intent of the alternative (!WHOOPS!, guess I'll
havta' use 'underground' as my term) pubs/zines (if yer' correct
about th' current fragmentation of the "marketplace" - & I tend to
agree with ye') purpose/intent is beginning to bear fruit... networking
'corporate magnates' in to NON-EXISTENCE

>This is partly the fault of radio station formats
>which are more geared toward demographics than toward an individual
>Program Director's taste, and partly the result of the wide diversity
>of popular music.

I think the fault MUST be shared, to some degree anyway, by the listeners
themselves - either too lazy or just too apathetic to call that DJ/Program
Director/Corporate (dick)head up & say:  "Lookee Here!  Ya' keep playin'
THAT crap & yer' playin' to NO-ONE"!!!!!!

THEN, from TIM:

>This is my first post to this list...so be gentle...;)

 >> Ha!  Yeah, right.


MY only point in the original post was to illustrate that "gentle"
(especially on THIS list) is not always the BEST thing for you,
Robert... at this point, let me JOIN Marco in cordially welcoming
you to the list - AND point out how much I agree with his stating
below:

>I tell you gently: ;-) this is only a small start for 'diverse music'. Where's
>the blues, jazz, classical, not to mention various ethnic musics you'll hear
>mentioned by various list members? "Music" doesn't equate to just "rock music"
>in this neck of the net, so be forewarned!

& LEONARD CONTRIBUTED:

>I think the title alternative is the same as "cult-following" that was
>used b4 alternative became the "in word"....but who is John Galt...L.W.

& about a 100 million other "labels", which was my point, too; I agree
with Leonard, especially in the sense that the "labels" are used by
the corporate structure as the 'guiding light' for the masses, too!

AND MUST AGREE WITH WOJ'S STATEMENT THAT:

>on the other hand, "alternative" has also come to mean that collection of
>college rock characterized by whatever it is that the college music journal
>and 120 minutes has decided to be deemed "alternative" for that month.


THEN "CUBBY" came back with:

>If I hear something I like, I buy it.

THERE'S the key, Robert... what you buy, i.e., like, IS 'your' alternative -
to most of the whale-poop aired on commercial stations!

>Personally, if a group "makes it big", I'm not going to stop listening to
 >them...I think success can challenge a group and possibly make them better.

I'm not going to stop listening to them BECAUSE they made it big... it's
just that once they DO, they tend to start doing what "the boss" wants,
rather than continuing to strive for their own vision!!!!

THEN someone SED:

>couch potatoes will only be able to apprehend as an "alternative."

ZZAJ INTERJECTION:  "NEW Thread":  'nother "chicken-or-the-egg" thingie...

                                   How many couch potatoes would we HAVE
                                   if it weren't for the whole education
                                   system (& of course, I'm mostly
                                   referring to piano teachers) saying
                                   "...but, that's the WRONG note..."

                                   How diverse/new would music BECOME
                                   if the teacher could/would 'learn'
                                   to say, "Wow!  THAT'S an interesting
                                   departure from the norm... NOW let
                                   me show you ANOTHER direction you
                                   can go in with that structure"?
                                   Huh? Huh? Huh?



& from Bloomido:

>Unless they're convinced their workplace is a supermarket for the Hot 100,
>they should feel a sense of commitment to diversity.

HEAR, Hear!!!!!!!!!!

>You could be an overnight manufactured phenom, a Milli Vanilli, totally
>dependent on your handlers.... ...insert into a Carson monologue...

OR create your OWN label (like ZZAJ Productions) & insert it into a
BLOOM monologue

& then a FURTHER comment on LABELS:

>Cuneiform. Haven't you guys bought that Curlew record yet?!

NO - WHERE can I get the catalog?  Maybe you've posted it before, but
I've not seen it... which REMINDS me, Michael, do YOU have an address
for Cuneiform or Knitting Factory?

NOW, Bloomido changes GEARS:

> HEAR! HEAR!  Glad SOMEONE knows who Henry Kaiser is... just a SUPER player!

>>Yeah, he's magnificent. Curious how "alternative" media seem to have never
>>heard of him :

I've got a (WAY-early) issue of 'the Improvisor' somewhere that has an
article/review or two on Henry's stuph... BTW, do you have/need any
copies of that?  It's a GREAT 'zine, in case you don't, & Davey/LaDonna
were mostly responsible for putting it together & keepin' it goin'...
on that score, LaDonna tells me there WILL be an issue out this year
again... I just sent her two new tapes for review in it!

THEN, switchin' back to the 'Alternative' discussion again, Kyle Legate
SED

>Accordiung to me, there is no such thing as "Alternative" music anymore since
>"alternative" music is pretty mainstream today.

>        I listen to such bands as the Butthole Surfers, Nomeansno,
 >Negativland,Sucking Chest Wound, Psychic TV, etc...

You mean you don't listen to/haven't heard ROTCOD ZZAJ?

>For real alternative music, listen to something from the real "Alternative"
label, Alternative Tentacles.

ADDRESS PLEASE!


Bye' fer' now....

ROTCOD ZZAJ
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