HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: gil@Gilsys.DIALix.oz.au (Gil Hardwick)
Newsgroups: alt.pagan
Subject: Witches and death
Date: 16 Oct 92 04:08:42 GMT
Organization: STAFF STRATEGIES - Anthropologists & Training Agents


In article <1992Oct14.124428.11402@waikato.ac.nz> simcock@waikato.ac.nz writes:

 >      These posts reminded me of a question I wanted to ask for years.
 >      It seems strange that the aboriginal (?) people of Australia
 >                         are called Aborigines.
 >  
 >      Do Aboringines A) Mind? and B) have a name they prefer?
 >                    and C) a name I would prefer?

Yes it is strange, and perhaps I should be more clear myself that I
have used it here as nothing more specific than the term "Europeans",
for example, is used to indicate the French, German, English, Dutch
and so on.

No, the people do not mind since it is not a derogatory statement,
although most do prefer there own nationality. Down here in the
South West of Western Australia, the people are Nyungah. Where I grew
up in the Western Riverina of N.S.W. the people are Warradgeri. The
people of the arid centre are Pintubi, Arrendt, Kaitij, Warlpiri,
Gurrindji. Further North there are Bardi, Murinpata, Larikia, so very
many.

The people who took me through their ceremonies on Bathurst Island in
the Northern Territory are Tiwi. Even then, "Tiwi" in their language
merely refers to human beings; tini = man, tinga = woman; kiritjini =
boy and kiritjinga = girl, while kakiritjiwi = children.

According to my own skin we are Wantarringiwi, while my own family
are Pukwarrinyiwi. We are not allowed to marry Arrikuwilla or Jijiwi
(the little bird people, who cry "jiji . . jiji . ." so sweetly), but
we can marry Tanikiwi and Milipuruwilla. I myself am an Egret, but I
cannot tell you my name here because it may only be invoked during the
ceremonies.

Overall there are recorded 28 different language families (ie, English,
German, French belong to one family while Chinese and Japanese belong
to another) in Aboriginal Australia. There are over 200 languages and
500 dialects. Suffice that there is plenty of work for Linguists in
this Great South Land of Gondwana.

What name would you prefer? I have no idea. What name do you want to
invoke in what specific context, in reference to whom? You really do
need to know what you are talking about before you can start refering
to people by name.

For lay people from overseas, "Aborigines" is fine.

Gil

--
Gil Hardwick                                      gil@Gilsys.DIALix.oz.au
Independent Consulting Ethnologist                            3:690/660.6
PERTH, Western Australia                                 (+61 9) 399 2401
   * * Sustainable Community Development & Environmental Education * *
From: gil@Gilsys.DIALix.oz.au (Gil Hardwick)
Newsgroups: alt.pagan
Subject: Ceremony Suggestions?
Distribution: world
Date: Mon, 12 Oct 92 09:15:36 GMT
Organization: STAFF STRATEGIES - Anthropologists & Training Agents


In article <1992Oct9.183542.22191@doug.cae.wisc.edu> christin@cae.wisc.edu writes:

 > I beg to differ on this point!  Circumcisions are done to AVOID 
 > infections - which are quite common since bacteria can gather
 > in the folds and cause very painful infections.  In face, a couple
 > of my friends who were not cirucumcized at birth, had to be
 > as adults due to infections -- and I can guarantee that it was NOT
 > an enjoyable experience as you can imagine.  Save your son *a lot*
 > of pain and possible complications later in his life -- get him
 > circumcized now, while he still won't be able to remember the pain!

Yes, I know of a cases of a boy's uncircumcised prepuce drawn back
behind the glans being too tight, causing restriction of blood flow to
the glans and very painful swelling, requiring an emergency trip to
the doctor with the boy in tears.

I really do not want to be seen favouring circumcision or otherwise,
but I do wish to point out that there >ARE< health reasons for carrying
out this minor surgery. I agree that there is no general rule, and if
it is to be done it should reasonable be done fairly quickly during
the week following birth to save the boy from pain as far as possible.

Circumcision at puberty is extremely painful since all the penile
nerve endings are fully developed by then. I have met men who have
remained through their lives very deeply shocked by the experience
through not being properly cared for during their circumcision with
the appropriate entry and exit rituals.

The pagan Kikuyu ritual of female circumcision by removing the clitoris
at puberty with an old razor blade or piece of bottle glass is similarly
debilitating and life destroying. It is *how* it is done, which is so
barbaric, not the religion of those practicing it.

Gil

--
Gil Hardwick                                      gil@Gilsys.DIALix.oz.au
Independent Consulting Ethnologist                            3:690/660.6
PERTH, Western Australia                                 (+61 9) 399 2401
   * * Sustainable Community Development & Environmental Education * *
From: ksm@abb-sc.abb-sc.com (Ashley)
Newsgroups: alt.pagan
Subject: Re: Birth data
Date: 7 Oct 92 17:34:42 GMT
Organization: Kaos Laboratories


>- I don't know what Eshin-Fun is charging, but I've always wondered too.
> 
> 
>So have I. And all those other Systems were interesting, though I have no idea
>what any of it meant. :)


	I too have never had anything done with my charts, so this is a first. 
I'll need explanations if they can be provided or maybe references to books I 
can read? Here's my data.  Thank you.

	July 23, 1967 8:30am, Washington D.C.

	Do you need dates on death and rebirth rituals too? How do these affect 
natal charts and do they change your sign when you do them? If so, I'm dying 
in January or February (don't know just when yet.)


	"I kiss the Goddess in Elizium's Garden. Let the cosmos flow."

			- Ashley
From: donal@brewich.hou.tx.us (Donal)
Newsgroups: alt.pagan
Subject: Re: a nice experience last night
Date: Mon, 12 Oct 92 20:43:38 CDT
Organization: The Brewer's Witch BBS, +1 713 272 7350, Brewich.Hou.TX.US

bbooth@bnr.ca (Bradley Booth) writes:
> Janis wrote:
> > ailsa wrote:
> > >birthdate 11/18/63 one somethign in the afternoon, wilmington
> > >delaware, aries rising, moon, mercury, venus, mars in sagittarius (a
> > >good chart for having a bad temper *grin*)
> > 
> > >so, what's everybody else's?  i'd been meaning to ask...
> > 
> > Well, hell -- everyone else is replying.  March 6, 1966 -- 4:18pm.  All
> > I know is that I'm Pisces, but I'm not an astrology believer.
> 
> What the heck... June 1, 1964.  I was born at 3:07pm... my sister followed
> at 3:22pm.  I'm a Gemini... and for those who don't know, that's the twins.

Might as well! June 6, 1961, @ 6:06 pm. Another Gemini
BTW, if anyone cares to do a workup... Matthew Glenn Porter Smith. Sept 24, 
1992 @ 3:17pm. I was born in LaMarque, Tx and Matthew was born in Houston.


--------------------
Donal, SysAdmin of The Brewer's Witch BBS -- +1 713 272 7350
(Internet) donal@brewich.hou.tx.us  (Work) bill%pssi@lobster.hou.tx.us
(CIS) 76460,1443 
(SCA) Ld. Donal Dubh, IC of Dun Bruddair, B of the Stargate, K of Ansteorra
From: dsimon@informix.com (Don Simon)
Newsgroups: alt.pagan
Subject: Re: help from you guys
Date: 7 Oct 92 14:09:33 GMT
Reply-To: dsimon@informix.com
Organization: Pango's Ping Pong Balls

My own words of caution, having been in similar situations before, is to be very
carefull.  If you can manage to keep your end of the discusion on rational issues
and facts, while stressing that you believe that each person should evaluate
a complex issue for themselves, you can help to defuse the 'faith' argument that
is fundamental to Christian beliefs.  You might remind your student, that many
Christian theologist believe in Creative-Evolution (God guided evolution) and that
the biblical days referred to in Genesis may not be literal days (supported by a
biblical reference stating that {paraphrased} 'a day in the life of God, is
a thousand years in the life of man').  Stress open-mindedness and carefull 
examination of the facts available.

If you really want to get into an argument, bring up dinosaur bones.  If he
responds with the argument that they were placed in the earth by God, as a
test of faith, you can have lots of fun poking holes in that one...


with peace,


don simon
Newsgroups: alt.pagan
From: rks@cscns.com (Island's Child)
Subject: Re: Searching for a Path
Organization: Community_News_Service
X-Newsreader: Tin 1.1 PL3
Date: Thu, 15 Oct 1992 02:56:04 GMT

kitten@brewich.hou.tx.us (Kitten) writes:
: Hello to all. I am hoping that someone can help me by helping me define
: the Path of Druidism. I have some various beliefs and think that this may 
: be the path I wish to follow, but I need more information on Druidism 
: before I can decide. I posted on another source and got no response 
: whatsoever, but hopefully some kindly soul hereabouts will take my hand 
: and lead me through the unrevealed (to me) parts of Paganism.
: 
: T'anks...
: 
        I don't know if you will find this useful or not, but one of 
the things I did was to study the history of the time and the part of
the world of the path I chose. It made it seem more real and I was 
able to put the beliefs into some context. I don't know anything about
Druidism (although I would like to evntually) but my suggestion is to 
study the culture from which it came. 



Newsgroups: alt.pagan
From: marty@world.std.com (Marty M HaleEvans)
Subject: Re: Addendum:zodiac
Organization: Cicely Public Access UNIX, Cicely, AK
Date: Wed, 14 Oct 1992 21:39:31 GMT

I'm finding this really interesting.

So, you explained the legend about the year-animals. Can you tell us more
about the other information you included? For example, you listed me as:

Marty HaleEvans WOOD DRAGON:3 wind/1flower sacred day number 42

What does that mean, or indicate? or can you recommend a source?

Thanks.

Marty


=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=
"Another beer, and then he eyes                 marty@world.std.com
The barmaid's legs and waist and thighs.        Marty Hale-Evans
'Needs to lose some weight,' he grunts,         89 Mass. Ave., Suite 199
'But just the same, I'd fuck her once.'         Boston, MA  02115
He orders pizza, buys a round,              M    @    *    O    %    8    U
Gains an appetizing pound."                \|/  \|/  \|/  \|/  \|/  \|/  \|/
From: ddawson@rodan.acs.syr.edu (Dick Dawson)
Newsgroups: alt.pagan
Subject: Re: Odin, a Swedish Pastry Chef?
Date: 7 Oct 92 04:02:53 GMT
Organization: Syracuse University

In article <80843@ut-emx.uucp> evc@ccwf.cc.utexas.edu (Edward Van Cura) writes:
>Greetings to All and to Fred and Wilma!
>
>I just found this on alt.ripley.believe.it.or.not, so it must be true :-)
>Ek oja sisi ht.               Can it be?...Thorfinn  8)
>=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
>Newsgroup: alt.ripley.believe.it.or.not
>Subject: Odin, a Swedish Pastry Chef?
>Organization: The Swedish True Enquirer
>
>27-Sept-92
>(GEUTER NEWS SERVICE) Archaeologists working at a dig near Figtuna, Sweden,
>today discovered an important book inside a mead container. The book, called
>*Kakamal*, which is a 5th century CE Swedish cake recipe book, was authored
>by Oden Burssen, a famous contemporary Swedish pastry chef. The dig-site
>was a 5th century CE combination mead hall/bakery. The *Kakamal* translation
>raised questions concerning the Germanic God *Wodhanaz. Apparently Oden's
>mead hall/bakery was famous throughout northern Europe, and somehow the
>legends were mythologized. 
>
>According to the *Kakamal*, Oden was a very stout man, so stout in fact, 
>that it took two horses to carry him whenever he traveled. 

(remainder of KAKAmal translation deleted for obvious reasons.)

But as you see, My Identical Twin (Identical meaning One and the Same)
wrote this bit of wit.

                          Odhinn<==>Loki
From: dhardin@bbn.com (Dawn Hardin)
Newsgroups: alt.pagan
Subject: Re: Women and Men Witches
Date: 15 Oct 1992 18:36:17 GMT
NNTP-Posting-Host: bbn.com

In article <1992Oct14.222403.43855@kuhub.cc.ukans.edu>, kumagic@kuhub.cc.ukans.edu (Stephen R. Figgins) writes:
> 
> I believe in the superiority of the female.  I know of one other man
> who feels like I do, but in general, men and women's roles in
> witchcraft to not differ greatly from men and women's roles outside of
> the craft.  Many witches talk about how men in the craft are less
> sexist, less prone to domestic violence, less abusive.  I have yet to
> see much proof of that.  I would say women in the craft are generally
> stronger willed, and more progressive.  Men in the craft, will often
> give more lip service to equality because of this. 
> 
> Then again, I think men are mostly scum.  I think they can recover
> from scumminess, but like alcoholics, I think we need to fess up to
> being scum before we can really start down the road to recovery. 

Are you serious?  If so, then this is the saddest piece of self hatred
I've seen in a long time.  It doesn't do anybody any good -- it obviously
doesn't do men any good if they think they're scum no matter what, but it
doesn't do women any good either.  Hey, my parents and my ex-husband always
told me that all men were selfish, hot-tempered and childish.  So when my
husband was selfish, hot-tempered, and childish I never complained about
it.  Why bother?  Any man would act like that.  Guess what?  It's not true.
There's plenty of guys out there who act like adults.  

Please, get some self esteem, stop feeding yourself these defeating messages,
and please, please, please don't say stupid things like this where some
young boy might read them and think he doesn't have any control over how
he acts.  This isn't pagan philosophy; this is a problem you have.

Dawn
"Oh, Time!  Of all the dwellers here below 
You only elevate buffoons or fools,
Or him whose anus as an inkstand serves."
The Perfumed Garden of the Shaykh Nefzawl, translated by Sir Richard F. Burton
Newsgroups: alt.pagan,sci.electronics
From: gil@Gilsys.DIALix.oz.au (Gil Hardwick)
Newsgroups: alt.pagan
Subject: Witches and death
Distribution: world
Date: Thu, 08 Oct 92 11:38:48 GMT
Organization: STAFF STRATEGIES - Anthropologists & Training Agents


In article <BvppMn.D2H@inews.Intel.COM> pharvey@mipos3.intel.com writes:

 > In article <aHw4RB1w165w@hogbbs.scol.pa.us> 
 > wce@hogbbs.scol.pa.us (Bill Eichman) writes:
 > >Maybe all we need are personal and individual explanations for death? 
 >  
 > OK, so what is your personal and individual explanation for death?
 >  
 > >Who knows? I think if this modern paganism wants to be taken seriously, 
 > >it's eventually going to have to develop some form of rigorously tested, 
 > >yet flexible general philosophy. I imaginbe it will be one of those 
 > >"evolution in action" sort of things, wherein the less useful ideas get 
 > >left behind....
 >  
 > Less useful ideas, to whom? If you do a "survival of the fittest" to religion,
 > what you get is the religion that is best marketed and has the most militant
 > followers. Just look at Christianity, Paulist Christianity is the one that 
 > won in the West. Does that mean it is the "most useful"? And "general
 > philosophy"? Is such a thing possible in a world of individuals? Diversity is
 > good right? And Unity also, correct? But, is Unity worth giving up Diversity
 > to obtain? Isn't a better goal to strive for Diversity and try to achieve
 > Unity of Diversity? One "general philosophy" is "Do the right thing". Is that
 > not enough? What more do you seek? What more do you desire?

The distinction between a rigorously tested philosophy and less useful
ideas is perhaps not best expressed in Darwinian terms. It is neither
terribly fruitful to respond with some of those less useful ideas,
particularly expressed as bipolar agonies associated with mere physical
survival as a carnal entity.

The intention, as I read it here, is the formation of a far more
integrated and coherent pagan teaching we might deploy to greater
benefit. To this extent, there is neither contradiction nor ambiguity
in the notion of Unity in Diversity, or Diversity in Unity, or
whatever.

The Yin and the Yang seek balance.

Gil

--
Gil Hardwick                                      gil@Gilsys.DIALix.oz.au
Independent Consulting Ethnologist                            3:690/660.6
PERTH, Western Australia                                 (+61 9) 399 2401
   * * Sustainable Community Development & Environmental Education * *
From: acarr@coch2.alleg.edu (Amelia Carr)
Newsgroups: alt.pagan
Subject: Re: An amusing, but true story
Date: 8 Oct 92 21:20:15 GMT
Organization: Allegheny College

In our section of the woods we're incredulous about this story.
We believe the stuff about the Crystal Friends, but where in the world can  
you get rock candy these days?  In big pieces?  And how could you chew it  
without hurting your teeth?
Just wondering,
Amelia and non-crystal Friends
Newsgroups: alt.pagan
From: dlg1@quads.uchicago.edu (deborah lynn gillaspie)
Subject: Re: cats and magic (ritual circles)
Reply-To: dlg1@midway.uchicago.edu
Organization: University of Chicago Computing Organizations
Date: Thu, 8 Oct 1992 22:57:20 GMT

I did a Lammas "blessing of the animals" ritual, which my cats were
EXTREMELY enthusiastic about -- they came into the circle and were
very good, assumed the "meatloaf" position and purred blissfully until
time to eat the food. What was curious was that they didn't try to
get at the cat treats on the altar until the circle was broken, at
which point they were VERY happy to eat "blessed" kitty treats. Very
odd, since they are normally EXTREMELY agressive once the treats
are in any kind of evidence -- with five, it looks like a feeding
frenzy! <g>  --Debbie

-- 
Internet:         dlg1@midway.uchicago.edu
Bitnet:           dlg1%midway@uchicago
  
Xref: sparky alt.pagan:11067 alt.sex:32890 alt.sex.bondage:19533
From: tdrga@ccwf.cc.utexas.edu (Todd Drga)
Newsgroups: alt.pagan,alt.sex,alt.sex.bondage
Subject: Re: Halloween
Date: 14 Oct 92 01:08:33 GMT
Followup-To: alt.pagan
Organization: Department of Drama, UT Austin (SM/LD/SD programs)

In article <1992Oct13.030332.20750@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu> lrabe@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (Lee A Rabe) writes:
>I've been invited to a Halloween party, and have found out that it is to be
>a costume party.
>
>I need suggestions for a costume.  Help!
>
>Thanks,
>
>TopCat

I was talking to some people today and this subject came up.  A woman
chimed in and said that she would be dressing up as 'House Cat Woman' (robe,
slippers, etc.)  She explained that she figured that a lot of women would
be dressing up as 'Cat Woman' and she wanted to thumb her nose at them.
She also wanted to show that women don't necessarily have to be sexy and
wear revealing clothes for Halloween.

This brings up an interesting point: why do so many women like to dress up
as whores (her words, not mine) for H'ween?

She figures they're repressed.  I can't offer an opinion, since I think its
all in fun and don't take it seriously anyway.

Todd

-- 
=  tdrga@ccwf.cc.utexas.edu   (Todd Drga, UT Dept. of Theatre and Dance)     =
=                                                                            =
=  Real.sig (v 0.01b):                                                       =
=          For Sale: One (1) Stage Manager, good condition, no scratches.    =
=                    Outright buy or lease, no $ down, low rates.            =
From: wce@hogbbs.scol.pa.us (Bill Eichman)
Newsgroups: alt.pagan
Subject: Re: Only Witches Reincarnated?
Date: Wed, 07 Oct 92 00:58:12 EDT
Organization: The Heart of Gold BBS, Lemont PA

SL500000@brownvm.brown.edu (Robert Mathiesen) writes:

> Leland begins by remarking that witchcraft, as his Italian witch sources
> view it, is "like an endowment," which one may acquire, but is not for
> everyone.  Once you have it, you cannot die until you pass it on to some-
> one else, however much you may long for death.  "But what is most remark-
> able of all is the belief that very great witches and wizards when they die
> become great spirits, who sweep over the country in clouds or vapors or

Very much like the mediterranean tradition dinstinguishing the shades of 
ordinary men from the spirits of heros, kings, and priests-- ordinary men 
faded away into an underworld for the dead, but heros and kings lived on 
as spirits, and in many cases becoming gods or demigods.

You know, this reminds me of Gurdjieffs teaching that there is no 
immortal soul, only the possibility of an immortal soul which can be 
developed through esoteric work. What Kelly says sounds a lot like a 
paraphrasing of Gurdjieff, which is of course possible given the time 
line.

I think it has some interesting possibilities as a facet of a pagan 
philosophy of death. Seems a little self-aggrandizing, though, doesn't 
it? 

You'll have to ask a Gardnerian for confirmation on Kelly's report. I'm 
more interested in the utility of the idea, than in it's pedigree.

Later, Bill
Newsgroups: alt.pagan
From: rjb@carson.u.washington.edu (LeGrand Cinq-Mars)
Subject: Re: Only Witches Reincarnated?
Organization: University of Washington, Seattle
Date: Thu, 8 Oct 1992 04:02:52 GMT

There is something of this belief (witches, or some witches, reincarnate,
perhaps even as coven groupings) in Margaret St Clair's novel _The Sign of
The Labrys_ (New York:  Bantam, 1963 -- 40 cents new at the time!).

This curious little novel, by a writer well-known at the time for her 
explicitly pagan (if not explicitly Wiccan) themes, is about as Gardnerian
as it could possibly have been without including a copy of a Book of Shadows
in an appendix.

Writers, of course, can be very good at adding 2 and 2 together to produce
a very convincing 16, and she does a marvellous job with omission and delirium
as ways of justifying omissions that might be either due to discretion
or due to a inability to guess and reconstruct some things from what had
then been published.  Still, and nevertheless...

It has some interesting bits on a plague, too.

--LeGrand
From: markbr%radian@natinst.com (markbr)
Newsgroups: alt.pagan
Subject: Re: party at Philcon
Date: 16 Oct 92 23:16:56 GMT
Organization: Radian Cormp.

In article <1992Oct16.151544.15620@pellns.alleg.edu> acarr@coch2.alleg.edu (Amelia Carr) writes:
>In article <1992Oct15.162615.10753@radian.uucp>  writes:
>> o.k., one and all. I'm going to make it back to Philly for Philcon 
>> (second weekend in November). I'm planning on having a party, tenetively
>> on Friday night. come one, come all.
>> 
>> 	mark, the Silverdragon
>
>What's Philcon?
>Amelia

'Nother neo, huh?

	The Philadelphia Science Fiction Conference
               Novermber 13, 14, 15, 1992
	            Adam's Mark Hotel
	    Registration before 10/30/92 - $25

	(Now, if I remember right,)
	Principal Guest, Greg Bear
        Artist, Boris Vallejo (I think)
	LOTS of others
Newsgroups: alt.pagan,alt.sex,alt.sex.bondage
From: brad@cmptrc.lonestar.org (Brad Barton)
Subject: Re: Halloween
Date: Thu, 15 Oct 1992 20:20:28 GMT
Organization: CompuTrac Inc., Richardson TX

But which is mightier? The pun or the sword?

"Never give a sword to a man who cannot dance." -- Celtic Proverb
--Brad
From: dlg1@quads.uchicago.edu (deborah lynn gillaspie)
Newsgroups: alt.pagan
Subject: Re: I feel lousy about the shells now . . .
Date: 13 Oct 92 14:44:49 GMT
Reply-To: dlg1@midway.uchicago.edu
Organization: University of Chicago Computing Organizations

Dear Janis,
Don't give up on your shells -- just let as many people as possible
know that you like them and that you want ones where the tenants
have not been forcibly evicted! Some friends brought me a gorgeous
conch that they found in Puerto Rico, they knew I wanted one but not
one that involved an eviction. Minerals aren't much better, unless
you find 'em yourself, there are an awful lot of people essentially
strip mining to get crystals. I tend to hang out by water and try to
pick up stones that way. Shall I find you a Lake Michigan one? --Debbie

-- 
Internet:         dlg1@midway.uchicago.edu
Bitnet:           dlg1%midway@uchicago
  
Newsgroups: alt.pagan