HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: tel@cbnews.cb.att.com (thomas.e.lester)
Subject: Re: Is Hangering Cost Effective (cost of tie down at Teterboro, NJ...)
Organization: AT&T
Date: Fri, 18 Dec 1992 15:39:41 GMT

In article <1992Dec18.151337.4003@cbnewsj.cb.att.com> hgp@cbnewsj.cb.att.com (howard.page) writes:
>In article <greg.724621721@saltydog>, greg@saltydog.dpsi.com (Gregory R. Travis) writes:
>> 
>> Gee, my fully-enclosed hangar (with electric door and lights, no less!) only
>> costs me $50.00 a month.
>> 
>I just checked into the cost of a *tie-down* at Teterboro, NJ.....
>
>.... $225/month!!!

	Well, I guess the midwest is in the middle here also.

	Tie down at smaller local fields is about $15.00/month
	(Licking Co. Newark)

	Fully enclosed hangar is $150.00 at Knox Co. 
	But I share with another guy who has a Q2 and Delta Stingray
	All 3 hombuilts fit side by side in a "standard" T hangar

	$200 at CMH (port Columbus)  tie down $30.00

-- 
	-----------------------------------------------------------------
	Tom Lester				att!cblph!tel
	Sonerai IIL (under TEST)		(614) 860-3259
	N4LX 					(614) 927-8106
From: ark@s1.gov (Alene Kercheval)
Newsgroups: rec.aviation.owning
Subject: Re: Is Hangering Cost Effective
Date: 17 Dec 92 17:34:21 GMT
Organization: LLNL

In article <75340009@hplvec.LVLD.HP.COM> bills@hplvec.LVLD.HP.COM (Bill Standerfer) writes:
>In article <Uf9xxrK00WB2R3Pm82@andrew.cmu.edu>, Jeffrey Dunkle
><jd5f+@andrew.cmu.edu> writes:
>>Open Question:  Does hangering "pay for itself" in terms of "measurable"
>>savings?
>
>My insurance company gives a 10% discount for a closed, secure hangar.  That
>amounts to about a 1.5 months of hangar rent for us.  If you factor in a new
>paint job and interior more often without being inside, you might come close to
>justifying it financially.
>

(this is really Berry Kercheval posting from Alene's account while my
career is on temporary hold)

Here's another data point.  My Musketeer sat outside for about 15
years in Livermore, Ca.  Now we don't get a lot of rain in California,
especially lately, but we got enough that the end rib of the vertical
stabilizer corrded away and, as the moisture ran down the inside of
the tail, so did the spars.

We were lucky to find a really clean tail from a pranged Sundowner for
$400 and had a friendly A&P who guided me through the replacement
process ("I kept saying "I like to pull the tails off airplanes...")
for another couple of hundred, but it could easily have been several
thousand dollars to be fixed by a regular shop.

We hangar the bird now that the horses have metaphorically left the barn.

So here's something to consider: the hangar fee is something fixed you
can reliably budget for, but something like replacing the tail can be
an awful shock to your wallet.  (And Geoff will pipe up here and
mention that if you can't write a $2000 check to fix your plane at a
random time you can't afford it.  It's pretty true, I've done it and
I've watched Geoff do it! :-)

  --berry (Soon to be at Xerox PARC if all goes well)
Newsgroups: rec.aviation.owning
From: jcmorris@mwunix.mitre.org (Joe Morris)
Subject: Avionics burglary (was: Sunscreens)
Organization: The MITRE Corporation
Date: Fri, 11 Dec 1992 20:49:40 GMT

kerry@Ingres.COM (Kerry Kurasaki) writes:

>In article <jcmorris.724093692@mwunix> jcmorris@mwunix.mitre.org (Joe Morris) writes:

>>A sunscreen also keeps the local lowlives from seeing what type of
>>avionics you've got for them to steal.

>I've wondered about this.  I assume that avionics theft/robbery is
>done by the pros and not by the corner druggie.  I've heard that the
>pros usually can tell what's inside the plane by looking outside at
>the antennae hung off the plane.

No, I don't have any hard numbers I can quote, and if someone can
cite authoritative data to refute my observation I won't start a
flame war.  At the same time, note that there are both professional
and target-of-opportunity burglars, and especialy for the latter
you don't want to advertise that you've got some sexy-looking piece
of avionics.

Even for the professional crew, the antennas generally tell only what 
general class of equipment is present.  Of course, if you've got a
flying antenna farm that suggests that there is a lot of electronics
in the panel, but for a typical GA bird the antennas usually represent a
COM box or two, a pair of VOR receivers (usually with a shared antenna)
a transponder, and maybe an ADF.  It doesn't automatically say whether
they are el cheapo ARC junk or high-end King Gold Crown.

>Since the "time" is the same for the "crime" of breaking into an Banana
>as it is for a C-172, I would think that the heavier iron would have
a higher incident rate than your trainer/small 4-seater.

But that assumes that the populations of bananananans and trainers 
are identical...which of course they aren't.  I guess (and I have *no*
data on the subject...but since when did that ever stop a posting?)
that the rate of burglary from the more expensive birds is higher
*per airplane tied down*.  But there are many more trainers than bananananas
so the burglary rate *per unit time* for the trainers would be higher.

Also, the locks on most trainer-sized birds (and some larger ones as
well) are a joke, and a poor one at that.  As the size and price of
the bird increase so does the quality of the lock on the door.

In any case, my original comment was that the use of a sunscreen is likely
to increase the MTBF of the avionics.  The additional advantage of 
concealing the avionics from unfriendly eyes -- if it exists at all --
is an extra goodie.
  
Joe Morris
From: glennh@hpmwtd.sr.hp.com (Glenn Hetchler)
Date: Thu, 10 Dec 1992 20:30:43 GMT
Subject: Re: Where to get cheap Continental Parts
Organization: HP Santa Rosa Site (SRSD MWTD)
Newsgroups: rec.aviation.owning

Just put a new float and single piece venturi into the MA3SPA carb on my
C-170 a month ago.  If they go into the carb, make sure you change out all
recomended parts, or you'll get to do the venturi next year.  Neither of
mine were bad, its just that since we already had it off to install a carb
ice detector...

My IA is an independent, so he told me to order up the parts.  Check with
your shop before you supply the parts.  They may treat you differently if
they have a problem with a part, or charge you different $/hr if they vs 
you supply parts.

That said... The best price I could find on Precision Airmotive parts
(they bought the Marvel line) was from Linda Lou ph 800-824-9912.  I chose
to go with "original" parts because of the emergency ad on a particular
date code of after market float issued a few months ago.  You decide which
you perfer, but you must ask as you call around, otherwise you may get a
pma equivalent (which is likely just as good) when you are expecting original.
My float cost about $120, and the venturi about $50.

Glad you have a copy of your airframe and engine parts books.  Without those
you dont have a chance of ordering your own parts.  In the case of the carb,
I found each supplier willing to look up the p/n for the parts I needed.
Even if you did have a carb parts manual, they keep changing their recomend-
ations so often that it would be out of date!

-Glenn Hetchler
'51 C170A 5493C

Newsgroups: rec.aviation.owning,rec.aviation.soaring,eunet.aviation
From: sloubtin@dsg.cs.tcd.ie (Sylvain Louboutin)
Subject: looking for a Ka6
Organization: DSG, Dept. of Computer Science, Trinity College Dublin
Date: Thu, 17 Dec 1992 22:04:01 GMT

I dunno how to restrict the diffusion of this message to Europe only;
please note that I do post this from Ireland...

Where would you start looking for a Ka6? (sailplane) More specifically
I am thinking about a Ka6CR,  but I could settle for a Ka6E if it's
available at the same price :-)

I am at a very early stage of my research;  I have already found
someone with whom to share the machine,  I am now looking for the wider
possible sources of ads,  if possible from all over Europe,  to get a
good idea of the current market.

Of course there is the publication of the BGA where I might be able to find
ads in  UK;  is the publication of the French FFVV still alive?
what about Germany? Switzerland, Italy etc.? (I am willing to travel a
bit if it means finding a good deal.)

What would be the price of a decent Ka6-CR,  including the trailer?  I
hope that I should not worry about taxes if I buy a glider in EEC in
1993;  am I dreaming? 

any information, advice (sponsorship! :-)  would be most appreciated.


-- 
//Sylvain R.Y. Louboutin, fax: (+353-1)772204, e-mail: Louboutin@dsg.cs.tcd.ie
//Distributed System Group, O'Reilly Institute, room F.35, (+353-1)7021539 ...
//Department of Computer Science, Trinity College, Dublin 2, -Ireland-  ASK-18
Newsgroups: rec.aviation.owning
From: chris@a.cs.okstate.edu (Chris Schuermann)
Subject: Re: Wanted parts/sources for AC-500B
Organization: Oklahoma State University
Date: Wed, 16 Dec 92 16:03:24 GMT

From article <1992Dec16.061904.17781@nmsu.edu>, by bboswell@dante.NMSU.Edu (Brent Boswell):
> In article <SHARP.R-101292142536@lasersharp.apple.com>  
> SHARP.R@APPLELINK.Apple.com (Randy L. Sharp) writes:
>> I just bought a Twin Commander 1964 AC-500B and I need to find a reliable
>> source for parts and related items.
>> 
>> If anyone can help I would appreciate the assistance.
>> 
>> Thanks in advance! 
>> 
>> Capt RL Sharp
>> The ultimate vertical Flight experience.
>> HH-60G... Fly Safe!
>> AC-500B Twin Commander "N6367U", My Baby C130
> As a personal aircraft????   I put gas in these monsters all the time at the  
> FBO I work for...never have seen a personal one.  Commander 114's however...
> 
> Is yours a turboprop or piston?
> 
> How is it on fuel consumption?

I own a 520 as a personal airplane (and also and Ercoupe...which I CAN
afford to put gas in...:-)  The 500 series are all piston engines.
Fuel consumption runs about 27gph at cruise.  Not really to bad if you
consider what you can haul for the price.  The speed isn't bad, but
not as fast as some of the faster twins.  Mainly just a lot larger and
nicer to fly  (please! no flames! Just a personal opinion)
The 500s especially the 520 and 560s are a great buy in the twin market.
The 500B and 500S run a little more because they have the desirable no-geared
engines, and prettier engine nacels.

chris schuermann
AC520 4186B
Ercoupe 3940H

Newsgroups: rec.aviation.owning
From: tel@cbnews.cb.att.com (thomas.e.lester)
Subject: Re: Sunscreens
Organization: AT&T
Distribution: usa
Date: Wed, 16 Dec 1992 16:30:44 GMT

In article <1992Dec15.135212.3631@bbt.com> tdj@bbt.com (Todd Johnson) writes:
>In article <1992Dec12.025622.11574@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu> acampane@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (Angelo Campanella) writes:
>>
>> .....DELETED MESSAGE
>
>>The Mooney was and still is a great follow-up re the A-33;
>
>>(Most of my flying is now solo).
>  ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>
>  Need a passenger. Most of my flying is too expensive. :)
>

	Ditto.  (Except the Sonerai)

	and I'm a lot closer.   I'll share cost and go almost anytime.
-- 
	-----------------------------------------------------------------
	Tom Lester				att!cblph!tel
	Sonerai IIL (under TEST)		(614) 860-3259
	N4LX 					(614) 927-8106
Newsgroups: rec.aviation.owning
From: tdj@bbt.com (Todd Johnson)
Subject: Re: Sunscreens
Organization: BroadBand Technologies, Inc.,  Research Triangle Park, NC
Date: Tue, 15 Dec 92 13:52:12 GMT

In article <1992Dec12.025622.11574@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu> acampane@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (Angelo Campanella) writes:
>
> .....DELETED MESSAGE

>The Mooney was and still is a great follow-up re the A-33;

>(Most of my flying is now solo).
  ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

  Need a passenger. Most of my flying is too expensive. :)


-- 
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Internet:  tdj@bbt.com       |  PP-ASEL  	       _ 
Usenet:    ...!mcnc!bbt!tdj  |  PILOTVFR          _____|_____
Disclaimer: Standard         |  		     0   0
From: stadler@Apple.COM (Andy Stadler)
Newsgroups: rec.aviation.owning
Subject: Re: Opinions wanted: C 177 RG, Belanca Super Viking, others...
Date: 15 Dec 92 03:35:45 GMT
Organization: Apple Computer Inc, Cupertino, CA

In article <1992Dec11.065404.1019@netcom.com> steve@netcom.com (Stephen
 Williams) writes:
>
>Not a chance. The mains, when locked, are foreward of the hinge point
>and above the lowest part of the swing. No amount of G-forces will
>force the gear forward enough. If you lose hydrolic fluid, you are
>basically screwwed.  Typical leaks are slow, however and the POH
>for my Cardinal suggests pumping the hand pump during final to keep
>pressure up if you gear status (and electric pump) is in question.


My club recently lost its Arrow II.  (don't worry, the owner just moved
away).  I was whining to an instructor about it, because this Arrow was
never very popular (a history of gear problems) and was therefore a source
of usually-available, reasonably inexpensive, "high performance" time.

Because of the difference in system designs, I always figured that a slightly
flakey Arrow gear was better than a perfectly-working system in a 172RG.  I
talked to the mechanics, and the majority of gear problems in this airplane
had to do with pump motors which were burning out.  Gear doesn't retract -
pretty benign failure, I'm willing to live with it.

The instructor said that while my understanding of the systems and their
failure modes was correct, in practice it was not worth the trouble, because
the number of Cutlasses which had actually had full loss of hydraulic fluid
was on the order of magnitude of "count them on one hand."

Was he just trying to get me to hire him for a Gutless checkout?  Anyone have
the actual statistics?

--Andy    stadler@apple.com


P.S.  Contributing to this Arrow's "bad rep" was a broken oil line which
led to a spectacular emergency landing on Highway 1, just south of Big Sur
(a very windy stretch of coastline with incredible cliffs on either side
of the road).  The pictures they took of the landing site were amazing.
Some people are suspicious of this sort of thing....  I figure any engine
can blow an oil line.
Newsgroups: rec.aviation.owning
From: dave@exlog.com (Dave St.Clair)
Subject: IFR certification for a Cherokee 180
Keywords: IFR certification
Reply-To: dave@exlog.com
Organization: EXLOG, Inc.
Distribution: na
Date: Tue, 15 Dec 92 18:31:06 GMT

What is the process and approximate cost for IFR certification of an aircraft?

Please email.  I'll summarize if there's sufficient interest.

Thanks,

dave@exlog.com





Newsgroups: rec.aviation.owning
From: acampane@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (Angelo Campanella)
Subject: Re: Mooney maintenance
Keywords:  M20J Maintenance
Organization: The Ohio State University
Date: Sat, 12 Dec 1992 02:42:12 GMT


 The Barnesville Guru is none other than Clyde Witttenbrook.

I've developed a fine relationship with him over the past decade.

As a CFI, I have checked out several pilots in their newly obtained Mooneys 
over those years.

His Nephew, John is taking over some of the responsibilities..

Clyde's gotten hooked on computers these days,  got DUAT up and running
on the field.  I also encouraged him to get a FAX machine.

It's worth the effort to get our aircraft to him..

Ang.
From: paulf@ci.deere.com (Paul A. Fisher)
Newsgroups: rec.aviation.owning
Subject: Re: Sunscreens
Date: 14 Dec 92 18:08:00 GMT

In article <jcmorris.724093692@mwunix> jcmorris@mwunix.mitre.org (Joe Morris) writes:
>
>A sunscreen also keeps the local lowlives from seeing what type of
>avionics you've got for them to steal.

A friend of mine taught me that whenever you close up the canopy, cover the
avionics stack with a towel or something so that someone can't just look in 
to see what you've got.  I take it one step further and cover the entire
instrument panel so that you cannot 'infer' what types of radios there are
just by the other equipment.

My plane (Q-200) is made out of plastic, so I don't have the antenna problem
(they are all buried under the fiberglass!).

--
Paul A. Fisher                       paulf@ci.deere.com
Network Software, W3LSW              ...uunet!deere!paulf
John Deere Road                      (309) 765-4547
Moline, Illinois 61265
Newsgroups: rec.aviation
From: RandyL@MCES.MsState.Edu (Randy Loper)
Subject: GPS/LORAN information needed???
Organization: Mississippi Cooperative Extension Service
Date: Mon, 14 Dec 1992 15:21:21 GMT

Let me begin by saying that I am posting this message on behalf of a
friend, and I do not entirely understand what it is that I am asking.
So, if I ask something that doesn't entirely make sense, please forgive
me, and no flames please.

Anyway, the December issue of _FLYING_ magazine in the "REPORTING POINTS"
section states that the KLN 90 GPS navigation system by Bendix/King
became avaliable in September.  The article states that this model
combines GPS positioning with a "...worldwide Jeppesen NavData database."

For someone who might have one of these units or who might know the
answers to these questions, here goes...

What information does the database contain?

Does the database show ALL restricted airspace and frequencies of
the controlling agency for such restricted airspace (i e MOA's, etc)?

Does this system contain an alert feature for restricted airspace?

How is the database updated (magnetic cards, sent back to factory,
new rom chip, etc.)?

Any other pertinent information about the KLN 90 would be appreciated.

Also, if anyone has this same type information for the latest
Northstar LORAN and/or GPS units, that information would be
appreciated also.

Due to the fact that this may not be a topic that is of great interest
to others in the newsgroup, EMAIL'ed responses can  be sent to me
at RandyL@MCES.MsState.EDU.

After December _18th_, my system will be shut down for maintenance
and MAY NOT be avaliable again until January.  Therefore, if you get
messages 'returned to sender', please email them again to me in January.

Thanks a million....
Newsgroups: rec.aviation
From: bruceh@cray.com (Bruce T. Hill)
Subject: Re: Lycoming, old used up motors
Organization: Cray Research Superservers Inc., San Diego CA, USA
Date: Wed, 16 Dec 1992 19:13:16 GMT

In article <6552.2b2e6f3a@hayes.com> bcoleman@hayes.com (Bill Coleman) writes:
>In article <Bz5IEB.Bxu@mentor.cc.purdue.edu>, dutch@mentor.cc.purdue.edu (FLYING DUTCHMAN) writes:
>> 
>> First of all motors are electric you are looking for an engine.
>
>I used to nitpick about this too, but then I got to thinking about the term
>"rocket motor" and spend an afternoon poking around Webster's finest.

When I was in grad school I was working at Hughes Aircraft in their
Space and Communications Group doing satellite systems test.  

The difference between rocket "motor" and rocket "engine" is this:

A motor is something that you ignite just once and it goes until there 
is no more fuel.  Something like the Shuttle's Solid Rocket Boosters.

An engine can be selectively throttled on or off.  Something like the
Shuttle's main engines.

-- 
Bruce T. Hill @ Cray Research Superservers, Inc., San Diego, CA, USA
Email: bruceh@cray.com  Phone: (619) 625-3746  FAX: (619) 625-0641
Humorous quotation:  Nobody looks good wearing _brown_lipstick_. --Frank Zappa
Newsgroups: rec.aviation
From: mcooper@cuuxb.att.com (~HIGH PERF~Michael A. Cooper~NA~G18~x8716~)
Subject: Re: Buying planes and training in them
Reply-To: mcooper@cuuxb.UUCP (PUT YOUR NAME HERE)
Organization: AT&T/NCR Software Services Division
Date: Wed, 16 Dec 1992 21:35:00 GMT

...Buying a plane to learn in IS a money saver.  I bought a Piper 
Cherokee when I only had 16 hours.  The rate per hour for instruction
was $70 at the local FBO, but only $25 with your own plane.  Yeah you
end up paying for gas, maintenance, and interest on the loan so it
doesn't add up to spectacular savings.

      BUT

You don't have to worry about a limited number of trainers 
You don't have to worry about the last pilot who soloed having a rough
landing and not telling the instructors for fear of being punished.  
You also get to impress babes by taking them on nighttime tours up the 
Hudson River (after getting your license, of course).  

Now as far as learning on a Navion, well you're on you own there.

   Good luck getting your ticket.
   -Michael Cooper.
From: alanmoore@yang.earlham.edu
Newsgroups: rec.aviation
Subject: Buying planes and training in them
Date: 13 Dec 92 19:56:36 GMT
Organization: Earlham College, Richmond, Indiana

Some friends of mine and I are thinking of buying my dad's '45 Navion.  One of
the guys already has a license, and the other three of us start ground school
in January.  The guy that has a license pretty much thinks we shouldn't use the
Navion to get our license because it will be hard on the plane.  However, one
of the main reasons for buying a plane in the first place is to help with the
cost of getting a license.  Around here it is $3000 with instruction and a
plane, and $1000 if you have your own plane.  With three people, that adds up
(even if we do "rent" the plane to ourselves...)  What are other people's
feelings on this?

Thanks,
Alan
alanmoore@mu.cc.earlham.edu
Newsgroups: rec.aviation
From: cep@taligent.com (Christophe Pettus)
Subject: Re: Good to see this newsgroup
Keywords: Good to see this newsgroup
Organization: Taligent, a little subsidiary of two really big companies.
Date: Wed, 16 Dec 1992 19:44:20 GMT

In article <hansonj.724473901@helium> hansonj@helium.gas.uug.arizona.edu (Jon M Hanson ) writes:
>I just thought I would show my appreciation for this newsgroup and take the
>opportunity to say hello to everyone.
>
>					Jon Hanson
>					President, University of Arizona
>					Flying Club

Of course, this group is about to be removed in favor of the rec.aviation.*
groups.
--
-- Christophe

"I draw the line at Styrofoam packing kernels, you sick pervert."
Newsgroups: rec.aviation
From: eap@leland.Stanford.EDU (Eric Perozziello)
Subject: Re: Past the speed of sound...
Organization: DSG, Stanford University, CA 94305, USA
Date: Wed, 16 Dec 92 20:10:05 GMT

> Now I'm curious.  These propellors must have been relatively short,
> with more blades, and/or spinning at a higher RPM?

More or less, isn't this the same thing as a jet/turbofan that is
used in supersonic aircraft today?  Maybe someone who knows about jets
can enlighten us......

-Eric

Newsgroups: rec.aviation
From: dutch@mentor.cc.purdue.edu (FLYING DUTCHMAN)
Subject: Re: Lycoming, old used up motors
Organization: Purdue University Computing Center
Date: Sat, 12 Dec 1992 14:46:58 GMT

In article <1992Dec11.191818.29554@newsgate.sps.mot.com> shade@chdasic.sps.mot.com writes:

>I was recently reading an article on VW engine swaps.  Several companies
>make adapters for just about any motor to the VW transmission (transaxle).
>What sort of horsepower is produced by a 4 cylinder Lycoming?
A Lycoming O-320 has 160 hp, and a Lycoming IO-320 has 200hp.  This in when new
but I bet an old one would put out well more than enough power for a VW.

>Are these motors ever decomissioned from flight service? (i.e. affordable?!?)
>Can the average Joe go and get a used up but still running Lycoming?

First of all motors are electric you are looking for an engine.
I bet you could find one that still runs.  Maybe an engine that doesn't fit
aircraft standards anymore.

>Knowing VWs, I think a pilot/builder must have a certain sense of adventure
>to use a VW motor on an aircraft.  Not being quite so brave, I was toying
>with the idea of using a Lycoming on my buggy.
The engine would need to be certificated to be used in your plane, but I bet
someone has done it on an experimental aircraft.  People try some crazy things.
I think it is a great idea to put one in your car.  You would need to offer morethan the engines value as srap metal, old props are hard to get because they arerecycled as scrap metal, about $75 worth.  I don't know how much an engine mightrun though.


						Jon

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                   __/ /  /_  /    /    /___   __  /
                ______/______/  __/  ______/__/ __/ @mentor.cc.purdue.edu