HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: friedenb@emerald.egr.msu.edu (Gedaliah Friedenberg)
Subject: First USYer in Congress
Reply-To: friedenb@emerald.egr.msu.edu (Gedaliah Friedenberg)
Organization: College of Engineering, Michigan State University
Date: Tue, 17 Nov 92 18:22:28 GMT


The youth movement of C Judaism (USY) is proud to see its first 
USYer elected to congress.  

Eric Fingerhut, a Democrat, of Cleveland, Ohio, was elected to the 
House of Representatives in the recent US election.  He beat the 
incumbent in the Democratic primary, and proceeded to beat the 
Republican challenger. 

Eric was the President of Central Region USY (Michigan-Indiana-Ohio-
Western Pensylvania-Kentucky) in the late 1970s.  Many of his volunteers
on the campaign were current USYers and alumni.


Gedaliah Friedenberg
-=-Department of Mechanical Engineering
-=-Department of Metallurgy, Mechanics and Materials Science
-=-Michigan State University


                   
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
From: d_ellis@ricks.enet.dec.com (David Ellis  23-Nov-1992 1433)
Subject: Re: Valid Interpretation Flamefest Resumes
Date: Mon, 23 Nov 92 11:34:04 PST
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clmn@ellis.uchicago.edu (Bill Coleman) writes:

> Let me abandon the use of the terms O,C,R and refer
> instead to Milton Steinberg's distinction between "traditionalists" and
> "modernists."  According to Steinberg, the central area of dispute is over
> the nature of the revelation at Sinai and its product.  The traditionalists
> believe that the divine revelation was captured in the oral and written
> torah.  The modernists have varying views of the revelation but agree
> that the oral and written torah are the work of men.

There is another group to be considered.  Many people accept the concept of 
divine revelation but reject the contention that the Written and Oral Law 
were passed absolutely perfectly and unchanged from the time of the 
revelation until the Torah and Mishna were codified in writing.

People are fallible, and the human temptation to amplify the divinely 
revealed teachings might just have been too much to resist over many 
centuries.  Maimonides wrote down a comprehensive Mesorah, a human chain of 
people who passed the teachings immutably from the time of Moses until 
codification.  He was one of the greatest thinkers of all time, but there are 
those who disagree with him on this issue.  Are his writings so authoritative
that they cannot be disputed?

It's been said that history is written by the winners.  Even if the losers 
were wrong, there may still lie forgotten truths in their opinions that were 
consigned to the dustbin of history.

I recognize that this is a very touchy issue!  None of this is intended as
a flame or other means of disrespect.

----
David  J  Ellis
Digital Equipment Corporation, Semiconductor Engineering Group 
Mailstop HLO2-3/D11 
77 Reed Road, Hudson MA 01749  
(508) 568-4393 
Internet: d_ellis@ricks.enet.dec.com
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
From: esafern@shearson.com (Eric Safern)
Subject: Re: Jews in Banks
Reply-To: esafern@shearson.com
Organization: Lehman Brothers, Inc.
Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1992 18:01:18 GMT

In article 16070@dorsai.com, jimkalb@dorsai.com (Jim Kalb) writes:
>thf2@ellis.uchicago.edu (Ted Frank) writes:
>: Jews are underrepresented
>: on the boards of the major banks based in New York City, which, to my
>: knowledge, have never had a Jewish CEO.
>
>What is the standard for underrepresentation?  Should the proportion of Jews
>on bank boards equal their proportion of the population of New York City?  Of
>the United States?  Of the world?  "New York City" seems the wrong answer,
>since these are institutions that draw their employees, shareholders and
>customers from all over.  But any of the other answers suggests a rather low
>percentage of Jews.
>-- 
>Jim Kalb (jimkalb@dorsai.com)
>"Harkas baayad ba andaazei gelim-e-khod paay-e-khod-raa daraaz konad."

The boards of money center banks, as all other corporations, SHOULD be
chosen through evaluation of the personal qualifications of individual
candidates.

Quotas are never the answer.  We do not need to quantify the percent of
Brazilians employed by South American branches of Chemical Bank to see if
a Brazilian should be on Chemical's Board.

If a Brazilian is ever considered, he should be evaluated purely on his
own merits, by Chemical Bank's shareholders.  NOBODY ELSE should have any
say in the issue.

That said, if there are no Jews on the boards of any of these banks, something
is wrong.  NYC has many talented Jews on the boards of other financial institutions,
and these banks have many Jews holding senior positions.

If they have been kept out of the top positions, it may be residual
Anti-Semitism.

What should we do?

Nothing substantive.  They are only directly hurting themselves, and the half-dozen
or so Jews who may have been excluded.

These people can take care of themselves, thank you very much, and don't
need us organizing boycotts, or getting quota ('Affirmative Action') laws
passed.  (Not that I am accusing anyone here of advocating these steps,
but you never know... ;-)

You can complain to them, if you like, that this kind of stupidity is not going to
help their profitability going forward.

Become a shareholder, first, though.

---
							Eric Safern
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
 Internet: esafern@sisyphus.govt.shearson.com   ...!uunet!sisyphus!esafern
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
From: ask@cbnews.cb.att.com (Arthur S. Kamlet)
Subject: Re: mezuzah question
Reply-To: ask@cblph.att.com
Organization: AT&T Bell Laboratories,  Columbus, Ohio
Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1992 19:57:41 GMT

In article <1992Nov20.183336.17262@netcom.com> solovay@netcom.com (Andrew M. Solovay) writes:
>In article <1ej3rhINN9tg@morrow.stanford.edu> aliki@nova1.stanford.edu (Alexandra Schmidt) writes:
>>
>>I read yesterday (in what I would call a not-great source which happened to
>>be selling mezuzot) that their mezuzot were suitable for your home or office.
>
>Give them half a chance, and they'll sell you a mezuzah for your
>car, too.

Wow!

What's next?  Mezzuahs you can wear around your neck?
-- 
Art Kamlet  a_s_kamlet@att.com  AT&T Bell Laboratories, Columbus
Newsgroups: talk.religion,soc.culture.jewish,alt.atheism,alt.activism,misc.headlines
From: ndallen@r-node.gts.org (Nigel Allen)
Subject: ADL Response to Gov. Fordice Remarks on "Christian Nation"
Organization: Echo Beach, Toronto
Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1992 07:06:30 GMT

Here is a press release from the Anti-Defamation League.

 ADL Response to Gov. Fordice Remarks on "Christian Nation"
 To: National Desk
 Contact: Myrna Shinbaum of the Anti-Defamation League,
          212-490-2525, ext. 145

   NEW YORK, Nov. 18 -- The Anti-Defamation League (ADL) 
today deplored statements by Mississippi Gov. Kirk Fordice
labeling America "a Christian nation" and asserting that "the less
we emphasize the Christian religion the further we fall into the
abyss of poor character and chaos in the United States of America."
   In a letter to the governor, Melvin Salberg, ADL national
chairman, and Abraham H. Foxman, ADL national director, said, "we
find your comments appalling" and "unworthy of any governor elected
to represent a diverse and pluralistic constituency.
   "Whether or not it was your intent," Salberg and Foxman
continued, "the effect of your remarks was to demean all Americans
who are not Christian."  In referring to Gov. Fordice's reported
rejection of South Carolina Gov. Carroll A. Campbell Jr.'s
assertion that America is based on "a Judeo-Christian" heritage,
the ADL leaders said the Mississippi governor's response "reflects
a shocking and incomprehensible insensitivity to Jews and Judaism."
   Saying that "America is a nation of many religions," and citing
the Constitutional guarantee "for everyone to worship as he or she
chooses," the ADL leaders urged Fordice "to reconsider your views
on the subject, which we believe cast doubt on your ability and
willingness to govern fairly all of the citizens of your state."
 -30-
From: nadel@attatash.aero.org (Miriam Nadel)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
Subject: Re: British Royal Family question.
Date: 17 Nov 92 17:01:41 GMT
Organization: /usr/lib/news/organization

In article <92318.1343472893684@QUCDN.QueensU.CA> andy <2893684@QUCDN.QueensU.CA> writes:
>It makes sense if you remember that "British-Israelism" the belief that the
>British are descended from one of the Lost Tribes was very much in vogue in the
>19th century. The theory seems to be more an attempt to justify British
>Imperialism and British pretensions to superiority than a serious
>anthropological attempt to trace the origins of the British. Also, many
>British-Israelites were, like today's Black Hebrews fervently anti-Jewish
>believing the Jews to be imposters and the British to be the Chosen People.
>In the 20s, 30s and 40s the infamous "Protocols of the Elders of Zion"
>were distributed by British Israelite chapters (there was an organisation)
>worldwide.

There are a couple of chapters on this in _Peculiar Notions and Eccentric
Lives_ by John Michell.  The most famous was Lord Shaftsbury who decided the
British were one of the lost tribes and had the mission of converting
the Jews to Christianity and leading them back to Jerusalem.  He was not
particularly successful at this, but some good came out of it, in that
the theory was part of what led to the Balfour Declaration.

Of course, there was also the guy who decided that Britain was the true
Holy Land and that all of the biblical names referred to places in Britain.
If I recall correctly, he identified Jerusalem with Glasgow, Egypt with
Ireland, etc..

Miriam Nadel
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
From: hbb@cbnewsf.cb.att.com (harlan.b.braude)
Subject: Re: sexism
Organization: AT&T
Date: Wed, 18 Nov 1992 13:53:22 GMT

In article <1eaj2qINN4hi@pita.cs.huji.ac.il> aplebaum@irs01.cs.huji.ac.il (Hillel Applebaum) writes:
>In article <1992Nov12.184328.12636@cbnewsm.cb.att.com>, segs@cbnewsm.cb.att.com (susan.e.slusky) writes:
>|> The tk is a pain to launder, if you really want to know.
>|> Washing machines are very tough on the tzitzit. Untying

In my experience, washing machines and Tzitzit get along fine, though
I then spend 5-10 minutes untangling the strands, reinforcing the knots
and stretching the loop that goes through the beged (wool shrinks when
wet.)

The killer is the dryer. I hang them up to dry and, B"H, they seem to
last and last and last.
-- 
Harlan B. Braude
hbb@att.com
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
From: solovay@netcom.com (Andrew M. Solovay)
Subject: Re: mezuzah question
Organization: Smiley Abolition Front
Distribution: soc
Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1992 18:33:36 GMT

In article <1ej3rhINN9tg@morrow.stanford.edu> aliki@nova1.stanford.edu (Alexandra Schmidt) writes:
>
>I read yesterday (in what I would call a not-great source which happened to
>be selling mezuzot) that their mezuzot were suitable for your home or office.

Give them half a chance, and they'll sell you a mezuzah for your
car, too.

Such a deal...
-- 
Andrew Michael Solovay    

"When angry, count four. When very angry, swear."
                --Mark Twain
From: faigin@aero.org (Daniel P. Faigin)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
Subject: Re: What _is_ the procedure for conversion to Judaism?
Date: 16 Nov 92 12:53:05
Organization: The Aerospace Corporation, El Segundo, CA
	<FAIGIN.92Nov12075256@soldan.aero.org>
	<1992Nov16.180654.24734@cbnewsl.cb.att.com>
NNTP-Posting-Host: soldan.aero.org
In-reply-to: saal@cbnewsl.cb.att.com's message of Mon, 16 Nov 1992 18:06:54 GMT

On Mon, 16 Nov 1992 18:06:54 GMT, saal@cbnewsl.cb.att.com (samuel.saal) said:

> I recognize the difficulty in debating the long tracts Dan posts.  On the
> one hand, they are valuable in that they are the closest thing we'll get
> to an acknowledged Reform "party line."  On the other hand, as with "fire
> and forget" missiles, any counterpoint will not be countered by Reform
> representatives because the actual writer of the Reform tract was not the
> poster.

Actually, when the counterpoint is something that can be discussed, then it is
discussed. When the counterpoint is a question of differing beliefs, all the
discussion leads to is a flame war. So why increase the friction between our
communities in those cases?

>>  It is sufficient for the prospective convert (ger) to declare, orally and
>>  in writing, in the presence of a rabbi and no less than two lay leaders of
>>  the congregation and community, acceptance of the Jewish faith and the
>>  intention to live in accordance with its mitzvot.

> The way I read this paragraph is that it says "I promise to abide by the
> mitzvot except for ....."

I don't see an "except for" in the statement. Perhaps a better interpretation
would be "I promise to abide by the mitzvot as I have been taught". Where we
differ is on what gets taught.

Daniel
--
[W]:The Aerospace Corp. M1/055 * POB 92957 * LA, CA 90009-2957 * 310/336-8228
[Email]:faigin@aerospace.aero.org              [Vmail]:310/336-5454 Box#13149
		    "And as they say, the rest is compost"
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
From: warren@nysernet.org (Warren Burstein)
Subject: Re: Kosher Honey - Still no answer
Reply-To: warren@nysernet.org
Organization: Mail to News Gateway at Wang Labs
Date: Wed, 18 Nov 1992 10:21:41 GMT

nyl = jjsulliv@COLBY.EDU (Nice Young Lady(tm))

me: one is allowed to kill lice on Shabbat because they
me: are spontaneously generated.  [...]

nyl: Is this directly from the Torah or from some other writings?  I
nyl: am curious.

I recall this from the Talmud, although I don't have the reference.
-- 
/|/-\/-\          Adif tzav pinui metzav shmoneh.
 |__/__/_/    
 |warren@         "Warren's slogan is an Anti-semite slogan."
/ nysernet.org 			    Gideon Ehrlich
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
Date: Sunday, 22 November 1992 14:00:48 MST
X-Mailer: TMail version 1.14
From: "D. C. Sessions" <dcs@witsend.tnet.com>
Organization: Nobody but me -- really
Subject: Re: Demons
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
Distribution: world

In <1992Nov17.165646.1415@speedy.aero.org>, nadel@attatash.aero.org (Miriam Nadel)  wrote:
# While I'm thinking about it, I'd like to dig up some good scary traditional
# Jewish stories to tell.  I have the book _Lilith's Cave_ which is a nice start
# but if anyone has other recommendations, I'd appreciate it.

  Author:     Neugroschel
  Title:      Great Tales of Jewish Occult and Fantasy
  Publisher:  Wings (division of Random House)

--- D. C. Sessions                            Speaking for myself ---
--- Note new network address:                dcs@witsend.tnet.com ---
--- Author (and everything else!) of TMail  (DOS mail/news shell) ---
From: lerner@cs.columbia.edu (Michah Lerner)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
Subject: ONE BOOK TO READ
Date: 17 Nov 92 21:45:13 GMT
Organization: Columbia University Department of Computer Science


If you can read only one book, consider "The Horeb" by Samson Rafael Hirsch
zt"l, with translation and introduction by Dayan Dr. I Grunfeld.

-- 
/M
Xref: sparky soc.culture.jewish:20666 soc.culture.turkish:11881 talk.politics.mideast:22372 talk.politics.soviet:9065 soc.culture.greek:10792 soc.culture.europe:9726 soc.culture.soviet:10143 soc.rights.human:4265 soc.culture.yugoslavia:9646
From: jgoldber@todah.chem.utoronto.ca (Joel Goldberg)
Subject: Re: Oral sex
Organization: University of Toronto Chemistry Department
Date: Mon, 16 Nov 1992 19:11:41 GMT

In article <1992Nov16.174934.28035@njitgw.njit.edu> dic5340@hertz.njit.edu (David Charlap) writes:
>But even the Talmud recognizes that humans are sometimes weak and fall
>victim to passions.  It describes how one should behave in such a
>situation so as to cause the "least damage".  For instance, if two
>non-married Jewish people wish to sleep together, they should wear
>clothes that they would not normally wear and travel to another town,
>so that they shouldn't be recognized, since recognition would bring
>shame on them, their families, and their town.
  I've never quite understood how that would work in practice.
  "Hey Yankel! Where're you going dressed in velvet overalls?"
  (Anything, after all, would be more colourful than the standard
  black gabardine. Hmmm, maybe that's the explanation? In order
  to cut down on extracurricular activities non-descript black
  dress was adopted, ensuring that anyone who went off in clothes
  they wouldn't normally wear would stand out anyway?)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
From: khaikin@boa.cis.ohio-state.edu (dmitry khaikin)
Subject: Re: Conversion Question
Organization: The Ohio State University Dept. of Computer and Info. Science
Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1992 23:18:48 GMT

In article <75446@hydra.gatech.EDU> gus@prism.gatech.EDU (gus Baird) writes:
>In article <1992Nov19.062732.21597@cis.ohio-state.edu> khaikin@boa.cis.ohio-state.edu (dmitry khaikin) writes:
> >In article <1992Nov18.215436.10666@guinness.idbsu.edu> holmes@garnet.idbsu.edu (Randall Holmes) writes:
> >>
> >>I wouldn't phrase it this way; if the Orthodox do know what God
> >
> >Would you kindly respect the Name of G-d and NOT write His Name like you
> >just did. I can't even read the your article after this. It reminds of
> >the way goyim write the name of ... on the walls of the toilet. 
>
>I generally am silent wrt your practice, but please realize that
>your victim's rendering does NOT violate the commandment.  He did not
>utter the name, but rather the job title.  There have been many (false)
>"god"s, and J* did not command that the generic title be respected, but
>rather that His own name not be taken in vain.

I never said it was a mitzvah. What I did say and one of the readers
even wrote it to me (directly) that it emphasizes your respect for G-d's
Name. You don't have to do it, since it is just computer article, but if
you want to emphasize your respect then you should. It is not breaking a
mitzvah but it is better to write G-d, since you are reffering to Him,
and not any other ...

Thanks,
Dima
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
  "A word is worth one coin; silence is worth two."_____ The Talmud.
  "Silence is good everywhere, except in connection with Torah."____ The Zohar.
   khaikin@cis.ohio-state.edu (Dmitry Khaikin, Columbus Ohio, USA)
Xref: sparky soc.culture.jewish:20668 soc.culture.turkish:11885 talk.politics.mideast:22376 talk.politics.soviet:9069 soc.culture.greek:10796 soc.culture.europe:9730 soc.culture.soviet:10145 soc.rights.human:4269 soc.culture.yugoslavia:9648
From: mgross@halibut.nosc.mil (Michelle K. Gross)
Subject: San Diego Jewish Business Association November meeting
Originator: scj@israel.nysernet.org
Reply-To: <mgross@halibut.nosc.mil (Michelle K. Gross)>
Organization: Nysernet
Date: Wed, 18 Nov 1992 03:34:17 GMT


When: Tuesday, November 24 5:30 PM - 7:30 PM

Where: Sheraton Torrey Pines, 10590 N. Torrey Pines Road (La Jolla)
       (I-5 to Genessee West Exit)

Speaker: Rabbi Simcha Weiser, Headmaster San Diego Hebrew Day School

Topic: Jewish Business Ethics 101

For more info, voice mail at (619) 491-4491, including a start at 
a jobs bulletin board.

--Michelle
mgross@Nosc.mil
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
From: solovay@netcom.com (Andrew M. Solovay)
Subject: Re: The First Time (was Re: Oral sex)
Organization: Smiley Abolition Front
Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1992 18:28:24 GMT

In article <1ehthkINNsgq@agate.berkeley.edu> lmk2@garnet.berkeley.edu () writes:
>In article <1992Nov20.002118.23987@netcom.com> solovay@netcom.com (Andrew M. Solovay) writes:
>>Actually, if we presume the relevant data are literally true,
>>then maybe Leah used the same trick that (Rashi says) Lot's
>>daughters did, namely tearing her hymen beforehand. Why would she
>>do this?  Perhaps she was worried how Jacob would react once he
>>knew he'd been tricked... would he reject her? Divorce her out of
>>hand? She might have thought he'd be more likely to stay around
>>if she were pregnant with his child. She'd only get one chance
>>with him before he found out who she was, so she wanted to make
>>that one count.
>>
>easy, she got pregnant the first time.  No trick necessary.
>Believe me, it's happened to lots of women.

I know. Note that I said "if we presume the relevant data are
literally true". In this case, the relevant data are (1) that a
woman cannot get pregnant from intercourse which breaks her hymen
(it must already have been broken), and (2) that Yaakov's first
act of intercourse (which was with Leah) resulted in Reuben, with
the implied (3) Leah was a virgin at the time, as well.

Okay, we all know that #1 is false. But the point is, Rashi
certainly believed #1 and #2, and he probably believed #3 as
well. How could he reconcile them? I've offered what I think is a
plausible interpretation. Even if it's literally inacurate, it
can still give us insight into how Rashi saw Yaakov & Leah. The
other explanation is that Rashi thought that Leah wasn't a virgin
when she married Yaakov, which is also very interesting...
-- 
Andrew Michael Solovay    

"When angry, count four. When very angry, swear."
                --Mark Twain
Organization: Queen's University at Kingston
Date: Mon, 23 Nov 1992 16:06:18 EST
From: andy <2893684@QUCDN.QueensU.CA>
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
Subject: Re: Jonathan Pollard...
 <1992Nov21.205836.26411@galileo.cc.rochester.edu>
 <1992Nov23.144525.5211@cbfsb.cb.att.com>
 <1992Nov23.191510.13616@galileo.cc.rochester.edu>

People have been defending Pollard against charges of treason. This is a
straw man argument as Pollard was (I am told) not charged and convicted of
treason but of espionage. There is a difference
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish,misc.headlines,talk.politics.misc,misc.legal
From: niepornt@phoenix.Princeton.EDU (David Marc Nieporent)
Subject: Re: Say it ain't so
Originator: news@nimaster
Organization: Princeton University
Date: Tue, 17 Nov 1992 18:53:23 GMT

In article <1992Nov16.221721.5533@bony1.bony.com> jake@bony1.bony.com (Jake Livni) writes:
>In article <1992Nov10.032052.9002@plx.com> asgard@sparky (J.R. Stoner) writes:

>>What's really on my mind is that you, Miller, and Dinkins are condoning the
>>reenactment of Krystallnacht, right here in my country, which is founded on
>>the proposition that it be a safe haven for exactly THAT kind of European
>>abuse.  Dammit.

>While Dinkins requested that law enforcement be relaxed during the
>Crown Heights Pogrom last year, and Miller J.D. is still looking for
>legal evidence of any wrongdoing in that episode, I do not condone
>this violence.  Please get your attributions right.

How do you know?  He and the police chief both deny it.  They admit they
were caught unawares and were not prepared to deal with it, but they
deny this claim of yours that he told the police not to intervene for 72
hours.  What's *your* source?

-- 
David M. Nieporent   | Mike Mussina 1993 AL Cy Young Winner
niepornt@phoenix.    |------------------------------------ 
   princeton.edu     | "I still believe in a place called Hope."
Clinton/Gore '92.  Don't stop thinking about tomorrow.