From: lampson@tellabs.com (Dave Lampson)
Subject: Re: records-database
Organization: Tellabs, Inc., IL
Date: Wed, 2 Sep 1992 00:23:21 GMT

In article <1992Aug31.222510.18481@fid.morgan.com> steve@fid.morgan.com (Steve Apter) writes:
>In article <CB.92Aug31153656@tamarack13.timbuk> cb@tamarack13.timbuk (Chris Brewster) writes:
[...]
>>etc.  You have to keep typing the same information over and over.  In
>>the above case, you could copy a line and make modifications, but in the
>>general case you'd be doing a lot of extra typing.  With a table-based
>>system, the table of recording numbers points at items in the other
>>tables.  That doesn't mean it's a trivial job, but it has got to be
>>better than the flat-file approach.
>
>The bullet you've got to bite is initializing the db.  No matter how
>you slice it, you're going to require at least 30 seconds per CD
>entered.  Not fun.

This is really just a case of pay me now, or pay me more later.  I have 233 entries for works by Beethoven.  Let's say I initially set up a entry for Beethoven in a composer file with his complete name, and birth/death data:

Beethoven, Ludwig van     (21 keystrokes)

I then only have to enter "bee" (don't even have to hit <Shift>) for each of those 233 entries, which equals 699 keystrokes, plus the 21 above for a total
of 720 keystrokes.  If I had to enter Beethoven's complete last name (assuming 
you don't want the full name) for each of the 233 entries in a flat file, the 
total would be 2097 keystrokes. (Note this assumes worst case in which you 
entered works for Beethoven at wide enough intervals that copying would not 
be much help, even so, to copy Beethoven from one record to the next in a 
DBMS is a single keystroke and I don't know of any editor that will copy an 
entire line in a single keystroke.)

The overall savings in Keystrokes with a RDBMS won't be the 66% shown above, probably more like 20-25% (guesstimate based on *years* of experience), but
when you were finished entering all the data, how many of those 233 Beethovens 
would be spelled Beehtoven or Betehoven, or...


>I maintain that 
>
>	asdfasdfasd/asdfasdfasdf/asdfasdfasdf/asdfasdfasdf
>
>is the easiest way to get this stuff into the machine.  

Easiest way to get a *single* entry into the machine, with no degree of certainty as to consistency, etc.


>Of course, 
>once it's in, you can do what you like with it, including conversion 
>to E-Z-Re-lato-matic format.  

Very true.  Just make sure you pick a delimiter that *never* appears within
the fields of the database.  And if you did decide to go relational, you'd
still have a lot of manual manipulation of that data to do before you'd be 
finished.


>But there's nothing worse than getting all that work trapped inside a dbms 
>that's decided to go south on you.

Assuming you aren't talking about simple data corruption with no backups
(flat files can get hosed too, ya know), every decent database program I've
come across has extensive import/export facilities, so this should never
be a problem.


>Now, IF your workstation plays CDs, 

Some do.  We have them here.

>and IF those CDs had some
>standard way of identifying themselves to the player, THEN ....
>Naahhh.  That would be too easy.

They can and do uniquely identify themselves.  It's standard for all CDs
to have unique identifiers in the subcode.  They also have track/timing 
information, but virtually no ASCII info as to track names, disc title,
etc. (whoever made this decision was *really*, *really* stupid!).  However, 
there are programs (WORKMAN, a public-domain program for Suns, for example)
that will correlate a database of recording/track/artist/label/etc. info
with the subcode on the CD itself (and do a lot of fancy CD player control
to boot!).  The thing is that someone has to create the database.  I know
one exists for about 2500 popular rock CDs, but nothing for classical, as
far as I know.  With the info I keep, I could easily create one for the 
recordings I own (a very detailed one at that), but I'd need a manufacturer's 
catalog number to subcode reference first.  Either that or feed my CDs into
the workstation player one at a time and do it manually.

I really do think it's just a matter of time before Schwann, and maybe even 
Stevenson, make their databases public, but they won't be cheap, and I *still* 
have a lot of trouble uniquely identifying recordings from the skimpy info
they track for their publications.  And that problem gets magnified many fold
for historic recordings, as I'm sure Diarmuid Pigott can attest, based on the 
information he's posted.


-- 

Dave
lampson@tellabs.com

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