HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: pngai@adobe.com (Phil Ngai)
Subject: Re: High Eff Furnace Question
Organization: Adobe Systems Incorporated
Distribution: na
Date: Thu, 15 Oct 1992 17:03:17 GMT

In article <1992Oct14.132942.14376@ryn.mro4.dec.com> abbott@priory.enet.dec.com (Robert Abbott) writes:
>I thought I'd pass on the view of the gas burner repair man who
>was at my house last week. He feels that high-efficiency gas
>burners cost the same (or maybe more) overall than the lower-
>efficiency units. What the owner saves in fuel costs is offset
>by higher costs in maintenance and repair.  
>
>An analogy to today's autos is not out of order. Today's computer
>controlled, multi-valve, fuel-injected engines are certainly
>more efficent than those of 20 years ago. However they are more
>costly to maintain and repair.

Not such a good analogy, both because it doesn't really fit and
because it doesn't show what you intended. My Honda Civic is
computer controlled multi-valve fuel-injected and it hasn't
given me one tiny bit of trouble in 108,000 miles. My wife's
Toyota Corolla is carburated and boy is it a headache to
work on. DO YOU KNOW WHAT A CARBURATOR COSTS? 

$700!

Fuel injectors are actually cheaper than carburators.

My Civic has more power, is more reliable, costs less to maintain,
and cost less to purchase than my wife's Corolla.

Oh, and it passes SMOG tests much easier too.

-- 
My opinions are my own.
Happy owner of a new Mitsubishi Expo.
From: MCMASTER@LSTC2VM.stortek.com (Jim McMaster)
Newsgroups: misc.consumers.house
Subject: Humidifier questions
Date: 7 Oct 92 16:10:52 GMT
Organization: StorageTek SW Engineering

I am considering adding a humidifier to my gas forced-air furnace.  I
live in Colorado where the humidity is really low.  I have a 2400 sq ft
house with a 1200 sq ft basement.  The furnace is accessible, and a
water supply and drain are nearby.
 
I have found a variety of "do-it-yourself" units, which feature a
rotating drum and a pan of water.  These run anywhere from $100-$200.
There is another brand, "Humid Air"(sp?), which uses a perforated
copper disk in place of the drum.  This costs about $260.
 
Another variety sprays water onto a pad, through which air is forced.
Excess water runs down a drain, so there is no pan of water to grow
algae, molds and bacteria.  These have no moving parts, so maintenance
should be lower.
 
One vendor recommends the "April Air 440" for about $350.  He claims
this is the best unit for the money.  Does anyone have experience with
this brand?  Is it worth the extra money?  Are there any other brands I
should consider?  Would I do just as well with a cheaper brand?
 
Thanks.
 
Jim McMaster
Newsgroups: misc.consumers.house
From: macrakis@osf.org (Stavros Macrakis)
Subject: Re: This Old House
Organization: OSF Research Institute
	<1992Oct13.203044.29571@i88.isc.com>
	<1992Oct14.160907.19385@beaver.cs.washington.edu>
	<Bw538F.D0r@jfwhome.FUNHOUSE.COM>
Date: 15 Oct 92 11:27:42

In article <Bw538F.D0r@jfwhome.FUNHOUSE.COM> jfw@jfwhome.FUNHOUSE.COM (John F. Woods) writes:

   ...That said, it is frequently more cost effective to obtain more
   living space by "simply" moving rather than by building; after the
   fact expansions usually cost more than the incremental cost of a
   larger house (all things being equal, which they never are, of
   course)...

Although it is true that expansions are usually not worth 100% of
their cost at sale, it is also true that moving incurs large one-time
costs: 6% for the broker; say 2% for closing costs and points on the
purchase loan; and of course the move itself.  9-10% seems like a
reasonable ballpark estimate overall, assuming all goes well (house
doesn't languish on the market, etc.)  So if you can recover 50% of
the cost of an addition, the breakeven is an addition costing 20% of
the value of the house.  This of course doesn't count the
psychological cost of either moving or of renovating, neither of which
is particularly pleasant.

	-s
Newsgroups: misc.consumers.house
From: patter@dasher.uucp (24224-guthrie)
Subject: Re: Mysterious Hole
Organization: Bellcore, Livingston, NJ
Distribution: usa
Date: Wed, 14 Oct 92 15:57:53 GMT

In article <1992Oct13.200306.15783@sequent.com> bills@sequent.com (Bill Sears) writes:
>>>>I have recently discovered a large, 5'x5'x5' square hole that is lined with
>>
>>This is slightly less than 8.5 cubic yards.
>
>_Slightly_ less???!?!??  My calculations work out to about 4 2/3 cubic
>yards (5 * 5 * 5 / 27).

You're right. I divided by 9 (square yards). What I get for trying to do
arithmetic at midnight.

patter@dasher.cc.bellcore.com
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
                    | You can't find the answers in the bottom of a
George Patterson -  | whiskey glass, but if you look hard enough, you'll
                    | forget the questions.
                    |
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
From: jge@ceti.cs.unc.edu (John Eyles)
Newsgroups: misc.consumers.house
Subject: ASEA washer info (why my sister didn't like it)
Date: 13 Oct 92 01:02:30 GMT
Distribution: usa

A while back I posted that my sister bought an ASEA dishwasher but
didn't like it that much, but I was vague about why.

Sorry it took so long to get this info, but here it is if anybody still
cares:

She said it didn't get her dishes any cleaner than her Sears unit,
unless she turned the water temp way up (apparently it is selectable
via different modes).  At those high temps, she feels what was being
saved in H20 usage was being made up for in increased energy usage from
getting the water so hot, plus it was melting some of her plastic
items.  By "no cleaner than her Sears unit" I think she means she has
to pre-rinse the dishes else little crusty bits of food will remain.
This is NOT true with my KitchenAid (it will get dishes with burrito
that's hardened for several days off with NO pre-rinse).

She said it WAS the quietest she'd ever heard (or not heard :-);

But she says if she had to do it again she would get a KitchenAid.
She thinks maybe the ASEA reputation is marketing hype and plans
to write them a letter.

Please no comments/flames to me: I'm just forwarding her opinions.

John Eyles
jge@cs.unc.edu

Newsgroups: misc.consumers.house
From: sca@dopey.eng.ohio-state.edu (Stan Ahalt)
Subject: Suggestions for bathroom wall material
Organization: The Ohio State University Dept of Electrical Engineering
Date: Sat, 10 Oct 1992 03:27:44 GMT

I have agreed to help my sister and her husband remodel their
bathroom.  They live in a rather old (post-war) house that now has
"melamine" wallboard on the walls of the bathroom, and it looks -
disgusting.

Does anyone have suggestions for a wall material that is relatively
moisture resistant and easy to work with?  Drywall covered with
ceramic tile is not an option because of the expense.  Ventilation is
quite poor in the room, so moisture resistance must be quite good - so
normal drywall seems inappropriate.  Is "blue-board" (moisture
resistant drywall - I think) a viable option.

Thanks,

Stan

-- 
Stanley C. Ahalt   			sca@dopey.eng.ohio-state.edu
Department of Electrical Engineering                 620 Dreese Labs
Ohio State University			            2015 Neil Avenue
Columbus, OH 43210   614-292-0068(O) 614-292-7596(F) 614-847-6064(H)
From: rhaar@albert.cs.gmr.com (Bob Haar)
Newsgroups: misc.consumers.house
Subject: Re: Sears tools (was Electric Drill Recomm
Date: 9 Oct 92 14:00:38 GMT
Reply-To: rhaar@albert.cs.gmr.com
Organization: G.M. Research and Environmental Staff

In article 15115@dg-rtp.dg.com, eliot@chutney.rtp.dg.com (Topher Eliot) writes:
|>I had a Sears circular saw, it shrieked like a banshee and shot chips straight
|>up into my face.  I GAVE it away and bought a Porter-Cable Sawboss.  Much
|>nicer.

Porter Cable tools generally are higher quality than Sears. I won't
argue that. But they typically cost several times more. I have a PC
router that cost $250 and a Sears router that cost $50. The PC
is a much nicer design and has more capabilities. But if you don't
need/want the extra power and capabilities, why pay that much
more.

My argument is that you cannot comparethe quality of tools unless
you know the intented use, constraints and budget of the buyer.

It is quite appropriate to buy lower grade tools as a beginner
and upgrade later, or to buy cheap "beater" tools that you
don't care about. For instance, I have same carbide circular saw
blades that cost $80. But I also have some cheap $10 steel blades
that I use when cutting rough lumber or where I might hit
a nail, etc. 


---
	Robert Haar               InterNet : rhaar@gmr.com 
	Computer Science Dept., G.M. Research and Environmental Staff
DISCLAIMER: Unless indicated otherwise, everything in this note is
personal opinion, not an official statement of General Motors Corp.


Newsgroups: misc.consumers.house
From: lowry@watson.ibm.com (Andy Lowry)
Subject: Re: How painful are contingency deals?
Date: Thu, 8 Oct 1992 03:04:03 GMT
Distribution: ca
Disclaimer: This posting represents the poster's views, not necessarily those of IBM
Organization: IBM T.J. Watson Research Center

In article <1992Oct7.174557.27596@adobe.com> dauphin@adobe.com (Kimberly Dauphin) writes:
 > I'm planning to upgrade from my condo to a house next
 > spring/summer.  My condo has increased in value since I bought
 > it 2.5 years ago, mainly from the improvements I've made in it,
 > and I recently had it appraised (for refinancing), so I sort of
 > know that I can get a decent price for it.
 > 
 > My question is this:  Should I sell my condo first, and *then* 
 > look for a house that fits my budget/needs?  Someone suggested
 > this as a way to avoid finding the "perfect" house and then
 > bailing out because I can't sell my condo (or, alternatively,
 > having to deal with paying two mortgages).

A factor you may want to figure in: I'm not clear on the details, but
if you're right about getting a good deal for your condo, to the
extent that you actually make a profit on it, I'm pretty sure there's
a limit on how long you can delay buying a new residence if you don't
want to be liable for the capital gains tax.  As I said, I don't know
the details, but you might want to check on it.
--
Andy Lowry, lowry@watson.ibm.com, (914) 784-7925
IBM Research, P.O. Box 704, Yorktown Heights, NY  10598
Newsgroups: misc.consumers.house
From: David Ruggiero <osiris@halcyon.com>
Subject: Please, sir, explain the FHA MIP refund to me
Originator: osiris@halcyon.com
Reply-To: osiris@halcyon.halcyon.com (David Ruggiero)
Organization: [none - why fight entropy?]
Distribution: na
Date: Thu, 8 Oct 1992 22:17:22 GMT

Okay, the specifics: I have a five-year-old FHA mortgage which I'm about
to payoff (I'm refinancing non-FHA to get a better rate). Since I "bought"
the standard FHA mortgage insurance at the time of purchase, I thought I
would be eligible for a refund of the "unused" portion of this insurance.
That is, until I came across this sentence in the "Homeowner's Fact Sheet"
put out by our friends at HUD/FHA:

   "Currently, the usual minimum time for the mortgage to have been held
    [before a distributive share is payable] is 6 or 7 years."

Huh? Does this mean if I payoff my mortgage at (for example) 5 years and
364 days, I don't get a refund, but at 6 years and 1 day I would have?
Or does it mean that my application for refund gets put into a pool until
six or seven years have passed and the actuaries do their work, and *then*
I will get a refund? Or something else that I don't understand? I will
post a summary of any coherent answers I receive.

(What _would_ we do without the net to ask these kind of questions? :)

David
 



-- 
David Ruggiero  (osiris@halcyon.com)      Seattle, WA
Newsgroups: misc.consumers.house
Subject: Re: GFCI Powerstrip
From: gary@cdthq.UUCP (Gary Heston)
Date: Thu, 15 Oct 92 19:39:00 CDT
Organization: Garys' Home for Obsolete Computers

winney@DAL.MOBIL.COM (Randy Winney) writes:

> 
> Does anyone make a multiple outlet powerstrip with a GFCI built
> into it? I've checked several home supply/hardware stores and
> have seen many powerstrips with spike supressors, but none with
> a GFCI.

They do exist. Look at a building contractors' supply store, or
a real electrical supply house. Expect to pay for it.

Gary Heston, at home....
gary@cdthq.uucp
From: erickson@atlas.cs.nps.navy.mil (David Erickson)
Newsgroups: misc.consumers.house
Subject: Re: Can't Stand the Heat in the Kitchen
Date: 15 Oct 92 20:42:25 GMT
Article-I.D.: atlas.6634
Organization: Naval Postgraduate School, Monterey CA

In article <5TRNsB1w161w@cdthq.UUCP> gary@cdthq.UUCP (Gary Heston) writes:
>tedb@hpcvra.cv.hp.com (Ted Beers) writes:


>>     In our house under construction, the heating people have placed the
>>     combined exhaust ductwork for our 80% efficiency gas furnace and gas
>>     water heater up through one corner of the pantry, like so:


>Call the inspection department; I think you'll find that it's a code 
>violation to combine exhaust ducts from different gas appliances.


>Have it fixed, before things progress much further.


I doubt that this is a problem, nor is it a code violation.  Before you go 
spreading rumors, check out the facts.

-Dave Erickson
From: jens4813@hgc.edu (Kevin Jensen)
Newsgroups: misc.consumers.house
Subject: Re: This Old House
Date: 11 Oct 92 13:03:51 GMT
Distribution: na
Organization: The Hartford Graduate Center

I saw the show but I cant believe the $250,000 apprasal. Also they said that
other houses in the neighborhood were going for $400,000 outrageous!!
I have a funny feeling that the apprasel price is inflated for financing of
the addition. There is no way that there improved house will get $400k
unless they live practically inside the city.
From: kherron@ms.uky.edu (Kenneth Herron)
Newsgroups: misc.consumers.house
Subject: Re: GFCIs and the Garbage Disposal/Dishwasher outlet
Date: 14 Oct 92 20:48:24 GMT
Article-I.D.: ms.1992Oct14.164824.26366
Distribution: na
Organization: University Of Kentucky, Dept. of Math Sciences

tanner@bcsaic.boeing.com (Jim Tanner) writes:

>In article <1992Oct9.170836.21179@exu.ericsson.se> exukev@exu.ericsson.se (Kevin Autrey) writes:
>>So, the difference here is not just an $8 GFCI outlet, but an
>>expensive multi-pole GFCI breaker.

>Why?  The following circuit should work just fine:

[circuit that should work just fine deleted]

Small problem.  Every $8 GFCI I've ever seen is only rated as a
15-amp outlet.  Both the disposal and the dishwasher need 20-amp
outlets, I believe.
-- 
Kenneth Herron                                   kherron@ms.uky.edu
University of Kentucky                              +1 606 257 2975
Department of Mathematics      I just thought of a neat disproof of
     Fermat's last theorem, but .signatures can only be four lines.
Newsgroups: misc.consumers.house
From: patter@dasher.uucp (24224-guthrie)
Subject: Re: Humidifier questions
Organization: Bellcore, Livingston, NJ
Date: Thu, 8 Oct 92 01:14:36 GMT

In article <168798F2C.MCMASTER@LSTC2VM.stortek.com> MCMASTER@LSTC2VM.stortek.com (Jim McMaster) writes:

>I have found a variety of "do-it-yourself" units, which feature a
>rotating drum and a pan of water.  These run anywhere from $100-$200.
>There is another brand, "Humid Air"(sp?), which uses a perforated
>copper disk in place of the drum.  This costs about $260.

I bought the rotating drum unit that Home Depot sells. Don't remember the
price offhand, but it was considerably less than $100 (flakey memory says
about $40). It's adequate, and I don't see the need for anything more
expensive. 

>Another variety sprays water onto a pad, through which air is forced.
>Excess water runs down a drain, so there is no pan of water to grow
>algae, molds and bacteria.  These have no moving parts, so maintenance
>should be lower.

I've had no problems with anything growing in my pan. Of course, it's New
Jersey water - not much will grow in that.

You will find that the evaporation surface (pad or copper disk) on any
of these units must be cleaned of deposits every couple of months during
heating season. The harder your water, the more often it needs cleaning.

patter@dasher.cc.bellcore.com
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
                    | I had been told that the best defense is a good
George Patterson -  | offense, so I made up my mind early in life to
                    | become as offensive as possible.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Newsgroups: misc.consumers.house
From: smb@ulysses.att.com (Steven Bellovin)
Subject: Re: Dealing with ungrounded outlets
Date: Wed, 14 Oct 1992 18:30:11 GMT
Organization: AT&T Bell Laboratories

In article <DRAND.92Oct12111042@spinner.osf.org>, drand@spinner.osf.org (Douglas S. Rand) writes:
>    The other area of concern is bedroom where we
>    want to put a computer.  It has 2 prong
>    outlets.  Will replacing these with GFIs be
>    sufficient?
> 
> Yes.  Find the first outlet on the branch (usually tracing the wiring 
> in the basement is easiest) and replace it with the GFCI outlet.

Umm...  I'm not certain I agree with that.  A GFCI will certainly provide
protection for *you*.  It won't provide a good solid ground for the
electronics in the computer, nor for any surge suppressors.
Newsgroups: misc.consumers.house
From: reading_w*corp_c@msm.cdx.mot.com (W. Reading)
Subject: Re: house-archive
Organization: Motorola/Codex
Date: Thu, 8 Oct 1992 18:58:34 GMT

In article <1992Oct8.184705.25237@schbbs.mot.com>, Bates_R*corp_c@msm.cdx.mot.com (Rick Bates) writes:
> 
> 
> 
> 
did you mean to send something???
Newsgroups: misc.consumers.house
From: clarke@watson.ibm.com (Ed Clarke)
Subject: Re: Kindling
Date: Thu, 15 Oct 1992 16:29:32 GMT
Disclaimer: This posting represents the poster's views, not necessarily those of IBM
Organization: IBM T.J. Watson Research Center

In article <ldqtg7INN5bu@news.bbn.com>,jdelsign@BBN.COM(John Delsignore)writes:

|> 	1. How do you "make" kindling?  I was thinking of buying an
|> 	axe and splitting some logs into pieces about 1" in diameter.

        It's a maul, I think.  This is a HEAVY thing that looks sort
        of like an axe but isn't - see next.

|> 	2. If this is correct, what's the best kind of axe to make
|> 	kindling with?  Handle length?  Weight of head?  Shape of
|> 	head?

        Length - about three feet.  Head 5-6 pounds or more.  The head
        looks like an equilateral triangle with about 4 inch sides.  It
        is not at all sharp.  Put the log on end, and wack it (let the
        weight do the work).  It'll split in half easily.  Repeat on the
        halves etc.  PUT A PIECE OF PLYWOOD OR OTHER NON-HARD STUFF UNDER
        the log.  The cast head does not want to strike hard objects like
        my concrete garage floor .... (don't ask).  Don't hit any part of
        your anatomy, it'll crush right through any safety shoe that I've
        ever seen.  If you figure out a way to keep the log up on end
        without tipping, I'd like to hear of it.  Maybe a wooden clamp
        of some kind?

|> 	3. The real goal is simply to get a decent fire going.  How do
|> 	you experienced pyromaniacs start fires?

        3 inch log in back, three inch in front.  Kindling 90 degrees to
        these logs with newspaper balled up under it. Couple of pieces
        of logs over that.  Newspaper goes between the 3 inch logs and
        under the kindling.

        The trick is to get a good draw before trying to light the above.
        Roll up a newspaper page into a cone, hold the pointy end and light
        the open end.  Hold this under the chimney until it burns down and
        you have to drop it.  Do this several times to heat up the chimney.
        Now light the paper under the kindling.

        After the kindling burns down into the space between the logs, put
        on some more small (split) logs to keep it going.

        NEVER EVER use lighter fluid/starter fluid/gas etc.  ( I have used
        the outflow from my shop vacuum to start wet wood.  Now that I have
        the hang of it, I don't do this anymore )


Ed Clarke
clarke@watson.ibm.com
From: arnold@synopsys.com (Arnold de Leon)
Newsgroups: misc.consumers.house
Subject: Dealing with ungrounded outlets
Keywords: ungrounded outlets
Date: 10 Oct 92 05:27:37 GMT
Organization: Synopsys, Inc.

We just moved into a 39 year old house which has
2 prong outlets and some 3 prong outlets with
the ground unconnected.  We are in the process
of trying to prioritize what of many things to
fix.  We have questions on our options.

We've read FAQ on wiring.

One of the ungrounded 3 prong outlets is for the
refrigerator.  Should we have this "fixed"
ASAP?  I believe the circuit is shared with
another which is where we want to plug our
microwave.  Options that I can think of:

	o do nothing
	o ground the outlet by running a wire to
          cold water pipe.
	o ground the outlet by running a wire to
	  the service box.
	o have a new circuit pulled in.

The other area of concern is bedroom where we
want to put a computer.  It has 2 prong
outlets.  Will replacing these with GFIs be
sufficient?

Should we consider having all the ungrounded
outlets upgraded at the same time?

We haven't talked to an electrician yet.
What kind of prices should we expect
(we live in Sunnyvale, CA)?  How do we
find a good one?

-- 
Arnold de Leon  			arnold@synopsys.com
NCS					Synopsys Inc.
(415) 694-4183				700 E. Middlefield Road
					Mtn. View, CA 94043-4033
Newsgroups: misc.consumers.house
From: billn@hpcvaac.cv.hp.com (bill nelson)
Subject: Re: Attic Insulation ??'s
Organization: Hewlett-Packard Company, Corvallis, Oregon USA
Date: Sat, 10 Oct 1992 08:48:34 GMT

IANR009@UNLVM.UNL.EDU (D. Kirk Darnell) writes:
: The local recommendations seem to be 12" of attic insulation.  I've got only
: 6-8" of blown in insulation.  Is the dimension the same regardless of the
: type?  If I need more should I stick with this type or go with the roles?
: Any suggestions or brand recommendations would be appreciated. Thanks...

You are probably in zone 3 or 4. My reference says that the recommended
minimum attic insulation is R-30 to R-33. The recomendation is from
Owens-Corning Fiberglas.

The thickness depends on the type of insulation.

Fiberglass batts/blankets - 9.4 to 11 inches
Rock wool - 9 to 10 inches
Loose fill fiberglass - 13 to 15 inches
Loose fill rock wool - 10 to 12 inches
Loose fill celulose - 8 to 9 inches

Your 12 inches of loose fill fiberglass is the recommended minimum for
zone 2.

Bill