HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: langs@puhep1.princeton.edu (David Langs)
Subject: Sibelius (was Re: Bernstein conducts Bruckner, Sibelius, etc.)
Organization: Physics Dept., Princeton University
Date: Thu, 12 Nov 1992 16:16:49 GMT

In article <1ds53bINNa5@mizar.usc.edu> hbaldwin@mizar.usc.edu (Harry Baldwin) writes:
>
Stuff deleted.

>I have just started collecting Sibelius' symphonies and this is the first that
>I felt I had to have.  This has probably been asked many times in the past, butI would like to hear some recommendations on the other six and Tapiola. I 
>have Yervi's version of the four legends but I heard Salinen conduct it last
>week with the LA Symphony and felt he built the structure more carefully and
>less precipitously, and for the first time made the last movement sound as if
>it belonged with the preceding three and wasn't a galloping, tacked-on 
>afterthought.
>

     I highly recommend the recordings of the symphonies by Vladimir
Ashkenazy and the Philharmonia orchestra.  They are available on a
mid-price 4-CD set from London.  The first recording of a Sibelius
symphony I ever heard was Ashkenazy's recording of the First, and about
15 seconds into the piece I knew that I *loved* his music.  I promptly
bought the set and was not disappointed.

     An indispensable companion to the above set is a single mid-price
CD, also on London, which features the same conductor and orchestra
performing En Saga, Tapiola, Finlandia, and the Karelia suite.  All
these recordings are DDD and the sound quality is in the demonstration
bracket.  The orchestral playing is spectacular and Ashkenazy has a
great feel for this music.  Since this is all on one mid-price CD, it
might be a good idea to buy this before the symphonies to decide if like
his performances.  The symphonies are available on separate, full-price
CDs as well.

     Although I have not heard it, Sir Colin Davis's set with the Boston
Symphony Orchestra has won great critical acclaim.  It is available on a
full-price 4 CD set from Philips.

     For some of the less familiar music, Neeme Jarvi's recordings with
the Gothenburg Symphony Orchestra on the BIS label are hard to beat.
(In many cases, because there is no competition.)  They are a bit more
expensive though, so you might want to listen before you buy.


Dave Langs
Dept. of Physics
Princeton University
langs@puhep1.princeton.edu
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
From: ashley@oasis.gtefsd.com (Bob Ashley)
Subject: Re: Best recording of "1812 Overture"?
Reply-To: ashley@oasis.gtefsd.com
Organization: GTE Federal Systems Division
Date: Sun, 8 Nov 1992 20:27:06 GMT

In article 051192100848@222.8.248.8,  chiu@gpb-mac.sps.mot.com (Norman Chiu) writes:
>Hi Everyone:
>    I am looking for the best CD (in terms of recording and performance)
>of the "1812 Overture" by Tchaikovsky.  Can anyone recommend one?
>
>Please post any info in this group.  Thanks.

I have the London CD (417 400-2) with the Chicago Symphony Orchestra,
Sir Georg Solti conducting ... I like it and recommend it.

This disc also has the "Romeo and Juliet Fantasy Overture" and "The
Nutcracker Suite".


Bob - just in time for Christmas   :-)

------------------------------------------------------------------------
Bob Ashley                        Internet:  Bob.Ashley@oasis.gtefsd.com

Software Engineer, (703)-818-4656  | Winter Bowling Leagues 1992-1993
   GTE Federal Systems Division    |    GTE FSD Mixed Secretary: Thu 17:45
   15000 Conference Center Drive   |    Thursday Mixups:         Thu 20:30
   Chantilly, VA   22021-3808      |    NFL Mixed Secretary:     Mon 21:00



Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
From: coren@speed.osf.org (Robert Coren)
Subject: Re: Brahms
Organization: Open Software Foundation
Date: Thu, 12 Nov 1992 22:17:29 GMT

In article <BxMEuD.Exs@news.udel.edu>, conrad@brahms.udel.edu (Jon Conrad) writes:                                           ^^^^^^

> I have had a similar, not identical problem with Brahms.  Despite the
> obvious immediate sonic appeal of his music, I found that it took me a
> long time to get interested in each of his pieces.  His manner is
> somehow alien to me.

Which makes your mailing address rather surprising. Did someone else
name your machine? :-)

Robert
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
From: oppen@hsr.no (Eirik Oppen)
Subject: Mozart recommendations
Keywords: Mozart, chambermusic
Organization: Rogaland University Centre
Date: Thu, 12 Nov 1992 12:37:31 GMT

Here are two questions regarding recordings of some chamber music 
by W.A.Mozart, I hope to get some reply on.  I am looking for the best CD,
in terms of sound and performance of the following:

1     The clarinet quintet, K581

2     The Grand Partita serenade

Please post any recommendations to this group.
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
From: young@tellabs.com (Craig Young)
Subject: Re: The Planets
Organization: Tellabs, Lisle, IL
Date: Thu, 5 Nov 1992 14:58:53 GMT

I have to second Mr. Smoliar's opinion on this one. The Steinberg/BSO
recording (1977, I think) is superb in both performance and sound. This is
available on CD also (DG Galleria 419 475-2GAL). I do not own the Haitink/
Concertgebouw recording, but have heard it several times. It is excellent as 
well. 

This is not meant to take anything away from the Dutoit/Montreal recording,
but I feel that there is a tendency for people to prefer more recent recordings
to some that are a bit more dated. There are a lot of great performances and
recordings that were made prior to 1987!
From: elkies@ramanujan.harvard.edu (Noam Elkies)
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
Subject: Re: Help Required. Dodecacophony. ;-)
Date: 13 Nov 92 04:52:23 GMT
Article-I.D.: husc3.1992Nov12.235225.17399
Organization: Harvard Math Department

In article <1992Nov7.231935.15817@credence.com>
jeffw@or.credence.com (Jeff Winslow) writes:
>[....]
>
>Of course, none of this says you have to like it, or that there's any
>negative judgement associated with disliking it. But that wasn't the
>assertion, was it? The assertion was, simply, "you get tired". You seem
>to disagree with that; I'm still not sure why. [...]

I think I can explain it now...  We seem to have two different models
of "tired".  When I wrote of listeners who "have not tired" of tonal
music, I didn't mean that they necessarily listened to it exclusively.
It seems that once such a person chooses to listen to some music that
isn't tonal you'd say that this person "got tired" of tonal music.
If that's all you mean then I don't have a problem with it.

>Because, to have experienced this "fatigue", you first have to have passed
>through a period when it did not fatigue you. You don't say that a man
>with no arms is tired because he can't do chin-ups any more.  How many of
>those who rail against atonal music can make that claim? You gotta pay your
>dues. Otherwise, how can anyone else be sure you know what it's like on
>the inside?

Well, I suppose Stephen S. would say there's no way anyone else can know
know one way or the other --- while some might suggest that it simply
takes a much smaller dose of atonal music to induce fatigue...

[Earlier in the same post:]
>>Or if not, that their 20th century counterparts must be bored
>>with tonal music only because atonal music is now also available?
>
>There is no "must". There is only "may". And the question doesn't follow:
>tired -> availability of atonal music (my assertion) does not imply
>or depend on availability -> tired. I mean, you're the mathematician,
>but really! :-)

This was not an attempt at logical deduction, but at reconstructing
a chain of reasoning, where one does often provisionally "reverse
the arrows" to guess how the omitted argument goes...

>Let me ask you this - you said there is atonal music you like. Why do
>*you* like it? What led you to appreciate it? Rather than argue about
>vague generalizations, let's have some personal experience. That might
>ultimately be far more useful to the person who asked the question
>that started this off.

What led me to appreciate it?  In each case, a specific performance
that brought out musical values I could relate to, albeit without
a tonal harmonic framework.  I could give more musical details, but
those would surely not help the person who was seeking the Modern
Condition --- whatever that might be.

--Noam D. Elkies (elkies@zariski.harvard.edu)
  Dept. of Mathematics, Harvard University
Organization: University of Maryland at Baltimore
Date: Friday, 6 Nov 1992 11:28:23 EST
From: Robert Haskins <RHASKINS@UMAB.BITNET>
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
Subject: Re: Glenn Gould Collection video

Regarding Jay Lee's question about why the Gould videos are released
in mono -- most of the source material for these videos are old filmss
and video produced for the CBC during the 60s and 70s.  The quality
was not very good, and, unfortunately, not even state-of-the-art by
the standards of that time.

I have one of the videos (on laser disc), and I'm not so sure there's
anything worth getting yet.  (With the possible exception of the
1970 "Emperor" Concerto performance -- but I already have that as an
import.  And remember, the sound is lousy.)  They haven't, for instance,
released the 1981 Goldberg Variations taped simultaneously with the
digital recording GG made of it for Sony (then CBS) -- I have no
doubt they will do it eventually, in their own sweet time, no doubt.

But as to whether I'd get it on laserdisc or videotape, I'd opt for
the former.

Bob
From: gordon@dcs.exeter.ac.uk (Gordon Watson)
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
Subject: Re: HAYDN
Date: 12 Nov 92 16:04:26 GMT
	<1992Nov11.021404.7664@highlite.uucp>
Organization: Computer Science Dept. - University of Exeter. UK

>>>>> On 11 Nov 92 02:14:04 GMT, alan@highlite.uucp (Alan McConnell) said:

Alan> Get yourself a recording of the early symphony subtitled "Evening". 
Alan> And play the minuet.  And listen to the string bass, quite alone,
Alan> lumber up the scale, awkwardly, yet comically, yet heavenly.

Can anyone convert the "Evening" subtitle to a symphony number?
--
Gordon Watson
 UNIX Systems Manager
  Department of Computer Science
   University of Exeter
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
From: slug@engin.umich.edu (Scott Vanornum)
Subject: Re: MESSIAH, technical question....
Date: Fri, 13 Nov 92 08:56:46 EST
Organization: University of Michigan, Ann Arbor

In article <1992Nov11.045604.1214@midway.uchicago.edu> hcresnic@midway.uchicago.edu writes:
>Eew, why use a Schirmer edition? Yes, I know - because the orchestral 
>parts go with it....

An Alternative is to use the Barenreiter choral parts with the Alfred Mann
full score and orch. parts....

           -=sVo=-
Scott_VanOrnum@um.cc.umich.edu
From: chem91@Elroy.UH.EDU ("Bill Harrison (713)-743-2789")
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
Subject: Re: obscene lyrics advisory--new Baltimore Consort album!
Date: 10 Nov 92 15:29:11 GMT
Article-I.D.: menudo.1992Nov10.152911.21781
Reply-To: chem91@Elroy.UH.EDU
Organization: University of Houston

>>I've heard that the new release by the Baltimore Consort, "The Art
>>of the Bawdy Song:  Music from the Gutters of 17th Century England"
>>due out next Monday, will contain a label warning of lyrics which some
>>may find objectionable.  I find this quite amusing, to say the least--
>>how many teenagers are likely to go rushing out to buy this album?
>>Does anyone know of any other "classical" album which took such an
>>action (and no, P.D.Q. Bach's "pathetic lyrics" advisory regarding 
>>"Classical Rap" (from the "Oedipus Tex" album) doesn't count!)?
>

Yes... Joan LaBarabara's "Singing Through" album of (a very small selection of)
John Cage's songs had a "parental advisory" label... (the "f-word" is used once
in a *mesostic* (sp) sequence). If I needed any more incentive to buy this
*great* disk, then that was it... 

Stockhausen's "Hippy camp-fire music," *Stimmung* is pretty racy, but the "love
poems" are in German, so I guess Tipper doesn't think we'll be corrupted by
that one. 

Bill
+ ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~\               /~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~+
| Bill Harrison,            \             /       "Be as radical as... |
| University of Houston, TX  >-----------<         reality itself"     |
| CHEM91@JETSON.BITNET      /             \                V. I. Lenin |
+ ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~/               \~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~+
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
From: yangyj@SPUNKY.CS.NYU.EDU (Yao-Jung Yang)
Subject: Rachmaninov.
Organization: New York University
Date: Thu, 12 Nov 1992 05:30:47 GMT
From: inr@eccles.caltech.edu (I. Neill Reid)
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
Subject: re: Wedding music with trumpet
Date: 10 Nov 1992 21:21 PST
Organization: California Institute of Technology
Distribution: world
NNTP-Posting-Host: eccles.caltech.edu
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41    

From: beh@kropotkin.gnu.ai.mit.edu (various Howellses) 
 (Nancy Howells_
>In-reply-to: borchers@poogh.llnl.gov's message of 10 Nov 92 18:43:49 GMT

>I would recommend Purcell's 'Sound the Trumpet' as a beginning.  There are
>other things, and I'll have to look for titles, because I am "hearing" them
>in my head, but I cannot think them right now.  It's for Trumpet and voice
>and piano.  

 Surely for 2 counter-tenors - from the ode for St. Cecilia's day
 `Come, ye sons of Art'. An arrangement perhaps?

 (& the famous `Trumpet Voluntary' is by Jeremiah Clarke.)

 Neill Reid - inr@eccles.caltech.edu
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
From: jon@playfair.Stanford.EDU (Jon Buckheit)
Subject: Re: Need help with SCHUMANN works
Organization: Stanford University
Distribution: su
Date: Fri, 6 Nov 92 17:34:31 GMT

Try the Opus 8 "Allegro in B-Minor," which I think was originally
intended as the first movement of a never-realized sonata.  The
work owes a debt to Hummel.
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
From: conrad@brahms.udel.edu (Jon Conrad)
Subject: Re: Brahms
Organization: University of Delaware
Date: Thu, 12 Nov 1992 21:19:37 GMT

In article <BxL85L.Lo7@usenet.ucs.indiana.edu> rdorocke@silver.ucs.indiana.edu (rob lawrence dorocke) writes:

>Have you heard his German Requiem?  If that doesn't get you into Brahms, you
>weren't ment/meant to admire his music.

Don't be so glib about it.  :-)  That was one of the hardest for me.
After more than a decade of struggling with it, it took the Solti
recording (1978) to make me see the point.  Now I can enjoy almost any
performance of it, having once come to terms with it.  But this is a
piece that many have had problems with, sometimes people who otherwise
like Brahms.  Part of the difficulty is that one so often hears it in
limp, uninspired, soggy performances.

Jon Alan Conrad
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
From: Mike_Quigley@mindlink.bc.ca (Mike Quigley)
Subject: Re: Glenn Gould Collection video
Organization: MIND LINK! - British Columbia, Canada
Date: Tue, 10 Nov 1992 14:43:09 GMT

> Jay Lee writes:
>
> I saw the Sony's 13 VHS tape and 7 Laserdisc issue of GG's performance
> recording appearing in record/video stores (Towers) in California.  Does
> anyone know how good these things are?  Are they worth to consider buying
> a LD player this time, since the LD set is cheaper and would probably be
> better quality and last longer?
>
> Also, does anyone know why in the world they are issued in MONO sound
> track?
>


They are in mono because most of these programs are taken from CBC television
programs which were broadcast in the 60's and thereabouts. CBC TV still
doesn't have stereo sound!

I don't know about the quality, but when they were broadcast a few years ago
it seemed OK, though the sources varied between video tape and film.

Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
From: brad@buck.viewlogic.com (Bradford Kellogg)
Subject: Dummies (was Re: Bad Brahms)
Originator: brad@buck
Organization: Viewlogic Systems, Inc.
Date: Thu, 12 Nov 1992 23:56:44 GMT


In article <1992Nov12.114133.23731@lmpsbbs.comm.mot.com>, johnme@ecs.comm.mot.com (John Meyer) writes:
|> 
|> THERE IS NO BAD BRAHMS! ONLY MISUNDERSTOOD BRAHMS,DUMMYS!

Dummies? 

I think it is implicit in this forum that the use of any superlatives
are accompanied by an IMHO. There is no universally "bad" Brahms any
more than there is any universally "bad" Cage [but don't tell that
to Brian Yoder :-)]. 

My feeling about Brahms is similar to my feeling about Beethoven,
and Liszt, and Mendelssohn, and Bach, and Strauss, and Wagner.
Each of them composed some of the most beautiful, captivating,
delightful music ever to bless a music loving world. And, each of
them composed one or more pieces (of parts of) that I do not care 
for. 

Do I understand them only selectively? I'm not sure that's the 
answer. If Brahms destroyed some of his own music, was it because
he didn't understand what he had written, or did he think that
some of his own stuff was simply bad? I wonder if I would have
agreed with him. Maybe I would have adored the music he threw out.
Would that mean I understand his music better than he does? Would
that make Brahms a dummy too?

- BK
From: leon@garnet.berkeley.edu (Leon C. Salcedo)
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
Subject: Re: It's in the wrists.
Followup-To: rec.music.classical
Date: 11 Nov 1992 08:32:24 GMT
Organization: University of California, Berkeley
Distribution: usa
NNTP-Posting-Host: garnet.berkeley.edu
Keywords: Liszt

In article <1dmo02INNt8h@darkstar.UCSC.EDU> haynes@cats.ucsc.edu (Jim Haynes) writes:
>
>In article <1992Nov9.150713.4035@math.ucla.edu> pugh@pico.math.ucla.edu (David Pugh) writes:
>>I don't ever remember Liszt having hands that big. Rachmaninov could...
>
>That's OK.  Hardly anybody living today remembers Liszt at all  :-)
>-- 
>haynes@cats.ucsc.edu
>haynes@cats.bitnet
>

Count me out!
People who remember Liszt are the ones who are seriously interested
in learning how to play the piano not for showmanship but for what
the piano has to offer. 


leon
From: al@sys6626.bison.mb.ca (haus der luge)
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
Subject: Re: Brahms.
Date: Tue, 10 Nov 92 12:58:25 CST
Organization: System 6626 BBS, Winnipeg Manitoba Canada

yangyj@SPUNKY.CS.NYU.EDU (Yao-Jung Yang) writes:


--------------------------------------------------------------------------

Brilliance !!!
 
A companion message to 4'33''.
 
 
HausDerLuge

Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
From: steve@fid.morgan.com (Steve Apter)
Subject: Re: Carmina Burana
Organization: Morgan Stanley & Co., New York, NY
Date: Tue, 10 Nov 1992 14:06:33 GMT

In article <9NOV199212555793@utarlg.uta.edu> b755zas@utarlg.uta.edu (RANDELL WHALEY) writes:
>
>
>	Miser, miser
> 	modo niger et ustus fortiter!
>
>Does any person know where I can find the next two operas (on a CD) of
>Orff's Trionfi trilogy.  I believe the titles are "Carmina Burana" (<--
>--- got this one already) "Catulli Carmina", and "Trionfi de Afrodite"
>Appreciate any help!



DG released Jochums CB and CC as a set a year or two ago, but it never
turned up in the US.  It was available (perhaps still is) in the UK.

Supraphon has released all three (under Smetacek?) as a 2 or 3-disk
set, and these are available (sorry, no catalog info available, as 
I don't own these).

I'm waiting for Philips to reissue the Kegel performances.



>
>
>p.s.
>   The company Phillips had the latin and english words to the "Carmina
>Burana"in the little cd booklet, and they had the latin words to their
>Gregorian chants cd.  These are both great Cd's
>pleas e-mail responses to b755zas@utarlg.uta.edu
>
>Mucho Thanksias
>	
>
>


Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
From: chem91@Elroy.UH.EDU ("Bill Harrison (713)-743-2789")
Subject: Re: My Own Private Desert Isle
Reply-To: chem91@Elroy.UH.EDU
Organization: University of Houston
Date: Thu, 5 Nov 1992 15:24:12 GMT

>
[discussion of "desert island disks" deleted]
>
>
>The choice for any rational being contemplating such a way of life is
>surely so obvious as to contradict the idea that it is in any way a
>"choice".  John Cage, reading from his diaries, on 10 action-packed
>compact disks, from Wergo.
>
>
>Hmm.  Maybe it's not so obvious.  So:  no matter which pieces you
>select, you'll never learn to stop hankering after all the ones you
>left behind.  So you'd better hope you can learn to enjoy the sound
>of coconuts plonking on the roof of your hut as much as you do that 
    ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>quartet you've been listening to 3 times a day for the past week.
>
>

The perfect "background" to listening to 4'33", I should say... ;=)

Bill

+ ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~\               /~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~+
| Bill Harrison,            \             /       "Be as radical as... |
| University of Houston, TX  >-----------<         reality itself"     |
| CHEM91@JETSON.BITNET      /             \                V. I. Lenin |
+ ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~/               \~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~+
From: egras@ohstpy.mps.ohio-state.edu
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
Subject: Tchaikovsky's Piano Concerto No. 1
Date: 11 Nov 92 14:07:00 EST



	While we're asking about best Tchaikovsky recordings, would anyone
like to recommend a favorite recording of his Piano Concerto No. 1 in Bb minor?
I recently bought the Arthur Rubinstein recording and am disappointed.  The 
fact that it has the crackling of the LP transfered to CD sort of bothers me,
but still this recording lacks the intensity that I desired.

	BTW, the CD also includes a version of the 1812 Overture.  I didn't
bother to recommend it.

BrianE
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
From: dstrait@telesciences.com (Darin Strait)
Subject: Berlioz
Organization: TeleSciences CO Systems, Inc.
Date: Tue, 10 Nov 1992 18:03:39 GMT

Can someone recommend a CD pressing of Berlioz's Symphonie Phantastique (sp?)
that I can find in the local Tower Records?

I am a novice at classical music, and would have grabbed the Telarc disc
with the Baltimore (?) Philharmonic, but I am unfamiliar with their reputation.

Thanks in advance.
dms
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
Subject: Re: Help Required. Dodecacophony. ;-)
From: elkies@ramanujan.harvard.edu (Noam Elkies)
Date: 5 Nov 92 12:15:15 EST
Organization: Harvard Math Department

In article <1992Nov3.043025.28103@credence.com>
jeffw@or.credence.com (Jeff Winslow) writes:
:You better be careful, Noam. If Eliot shows up again

(He has recently been sighted on comp.music)

:              you might find yourself agreeing with him on something. :-)

It has actually happened on one or two occasions...

:In article <1992Oct30.175337.16944@husc3.harvard.edu>
:elkies@ramanujan.harvard.edu (Noam Elkies) writes:
:
:>and most listeners have not tired of the cornucopia of tonal music of this
:>and previous centuries.  
:
:Oh to be a babe in wonderland. Nice for them. What about the rest of us? 

Come now --- were all musicians and listeners before c.1900
"babes in wonderland"?  Or do you suppose that all sophisticated
musicians of that time suffered for lack of atonal music?  Or
if not, that their 20th century counterparts must be bored
with tonal music only because atonal music is now also available?

:>(And quite a few probably find *atonal* music tiresome, if not worse...)
:
:To the greater part of them I say, fatigue due to knowledge is always a
:more difficult malady to treat than fatigue due to ignorance. A statement
:I make quite without value judgements, if you can believe me.  [...]

What I question here is not the value judgements or lack thereof, but
the presumption that "fatigue" of atonal music can generally be ascribed
to ignorance --- that if only the listeners knew/understood the
music, they would take to it.  This especially when you do allow for
"fatigue due to knowledge" of tonal music: why couldn't the same
happen with atonal music?  [I see that you qualify your charge with
"To the greater part of them" --- i.e. that only a majority, not all,
are ignorant --- but that still leaves the matter of the considerable
"lesser part".  BTW, personally I have enjoyed a few of the many
instances of atonal music I've been exposed/subjected to, but still
get a lot less out of the supposed masterpieces of non-tonal music
than I do from any number of tonal works.]


--Noam D. Elkies (elkies@zariski.harvard.edu)
  Dept. of Mathematics, Harvard University
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical