HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: mhr@hpuerca.atl.hp.com (Mike Reaser)
Subject: Re: The past is done, what now?
Date: Thu, 15 Oct 1992 17:38:34 GMT
Organization: a stone mountain of Kudzu

In <1992Oct15.025733.21444@wam.umd.edu> lovegod@wam.umd.edu (Donald Andrew Agarrat) writes:

>I don't believe anyone can change history.  The fact is Whites owe Blacks so  
>much that they can NEVER repay them.  NEVER!  And to sit here and listen to you  
>try to justify your complacency in this subject turns my stomach!

And in a previous posting, Donald writes:

>Over the last couple of months, my hatred for the average White person has
>been quite difficult to handle.


I've been reading this thread with some interest.  However, Donald's repeated
statements that he's not painting all White Folk (tm) with the same brush
seem blatantly dishonest, given the words he's using.

People have asked you "OK, what do we need to do?" and they're accused of
complacency.  People try to reason with you, and then are told that they 
cannot understand your viewpoint.

Great.  You make accusations of ignorance, then do nothing yourself to dispel
that ignorance.  If you want awareness or action, fine -- just quit being
so shrill about how bad your situation is, and tell people what to do to
help you change it.

Wanting change is one thing.  Pointing out how change can occur is another.

We've had a TON of the first, but precious little of the second.

Many of the points raised have opened my eyes and made this mixed breed
Celtic/Northern European/Native American/<<fill in your favorite here>>
realize how my life has been eased by the inherent "European male" 
slant of our society.  However, the avoidance of points raised by others
in this thread for guidance on how to deal with this is frustrating.

Sorry, but I had to say my peace.  Back to lurking on this thread...


=======================================================================
 Mike Reaser, Hewlett-Packard N. Amer. Response Center - Atlanta
 Internet:  mhr@hpuerca.atl.hp.com
 NBCS: B4 f w g+ k s-               I barely speak for myself, so
 #include <standard.disclaimer>       don't make me speak for HP
=======================================================================
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: mattm@apple.com (Matthew Melmon)
Subject: Re: "Advocate" editor interviewed on CNN
Date: Fri, 16 Oct 1992 21:45:02 GMT
Organization: Apple Computer, Inc.
Followup-To: soc.motss

In article <1992Oct16.182720.23678@sun0.urz.uni-heidelberg.de>,
gsmith@lauren.uucp (Gene W. Smith) wrote:

> >'Clearly unacceptable behavior?!'  Dahmer exhibited 'Clearly
> >unacceptable behavior?!'
> 
> I also thought his actions were unfortunate and ill-considered. You are
> free, of course, to disagree.

Oh, you're *quite* right.  How silly of me to overreact to a sadistic
cannibal who practiced ritual dismemberment and necrophelia.  All very
unfortunate.  Yes.  Tut, tut.  Amazing what society will drive some
people to.  All very sad.  If only he'd considered it a little more
carefully.  I'm sure if he'd only dismembered two or three people,
no one would have noticed.  And we would have been spared all those
distasteful stories.  

It was all very unfortunate.

And clearly unacceptable.  Why, if after his first butchery, his
mother had only been on had to say, "oh, no young man - such behavior
is clearly unacceptable" the world would have been a much better
place.  If only people would think about their actions before doing
them - and if only the opportunities for self-reflection were
even greater - then unfortunate incidents such as this could be
more quickly forgotten.

I'm glad an intellectual was on hand to make me see the light.  I
*had* been thinking Dahmer was the vilest piece of shit since
Adolph.  I know better now.

All very unfortunate.  Tut, tut.

Melmothra, ACC
From: aberno@godel.questor.wimsey.bc.ca (Anthony Berno)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: The Rainbow Flag
Date: 8 Oct 92 02:03:58 GMT
Reply-To: aberno@godel.questor.wimsey.bc.ca

In article <1992Oct7.195006.1729@oracle.us.oracle.com>  
schiles@us.oracle.com (Suzanne Chiles) writes:
> This morning's San Francisco Chronicle contained an article announcing
> that the S.F. Library Board had OKed the Gay Flag.  

>  ..."It depicts something natural and complete, all the
>  colors.
>  It's a symbol of the tolerance and diversity of San
>  Francisco."

Actually, I think that the rainbow flag would better signify the opening  
of a shopping mall, but this is good news.

Wasn't there an earlier gay flag, which was striped, but in colors more  
directly representative of specific facets of the community? Somewhere  
along the line, it went commercial, and, IMHO, lost much of its meaning.  
The rainbow flag is so common and benign that lot of sheltered heteros  
don't even notice it, much less wonder what it means!

Speaking of flags...

1. Am I alone in my opinion that the "leather" flag is terribly ugly, and  
that the heart in particular is inappropriate and obnoxious?

2. (Ursinophobes need not read this. ;-) Is there an official "bear" flag?  
I recall seeing, here and there, a flag with a paw-mark in one corner.  
Perhaps it was merely my imagination... 

-Anthony
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: mattm@apple.com (Matthew Melmon)
Subject: Re: Jason Priestley
Date: Wed, 14 Oct 1992 18:18:28 GMT
Organization: Apple Computer, Inc.
Followup-To: soc.motss

In article <Bw4H7M.Mzq@scd.hp.com>, mdrayton@sr.hp.com (Mike Drayton)
wrote:
> 
> John Dorrance (thaaang@cwis.unomaha.edu) wrote:
> > 
> > Quick! Who played in superbowl VII, who won, who was MVP?
> 
> ----------------
> BLAAAAAAAAAAAHHHT
> 
> Hey, John!  Woodjez git me uh brewski longaz yer up?

Or is that:

  Hey, John!  Woodjez gives me a bwow-job, longaz it's up?

On the subject of Jason Priestly, it seems a related topic has come
up over in alt.tv.bh90210 (it helps knowing where to look...).  
The opinion is that since he is either a) married or b) living with
a woman, he is not gay.  

Though he may be bisexual.

But now I'm finding it very difficult to concentrate on explaining
to people why Unix really isn't such a bloated, archaic, dinosaur.

I *want* Jason Priestly...

And to make matters worse, this blondish twenty-something surfer
dude-esque *engineer* (go figure) with *wonderful* thighs (nice
fuzz) was over here just long enough for me to ruin my cotton
Calvins.  

But *I* know his IP address, now...

Melmothra, ACC
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: anderson@macc.wisc.edu (Jess Anderson)
Subject: Re: Tired and Impatient (was Re: Dietrich, Madonna, etc.)
Organization: Madison Academic Computing Center, UW-Madison
Date: Wed, 14 Oct 92 00:40:05 GMT


In article <1992Oct14.001737.10135@macc.wisc.edu>
anderson@macc.wisc.edu (Jess Anderson) writes:

>Assumption, it's the Dove and its halo that's iconic.  The
 ^^^^^^^^^^
Annuciation, dipshit!

-- 
Jess Anderson <> Madison Academic Computing Center <> University of Wisconsin
Internet: anderson@macc.wisc.edu <-best, UUCP:{}!uwvax!macc.wisc.edu!anderson
NeXTmail w/attachments: anderson@yak.macc.wisc.edu  Bitnet: anderson@wiscmacc
Room 3130 <> 1210 West Dayton Street / Madison WI 53706 <> Phone 608/262-5888
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: will@wixer.cactus.org (Bill Staniewicz)
Subject: Video source for: Red Hot Dance
Organization: Real/Time Communications
Date: Mon, 12 Oct 92 18:12:52 GMT

Has anyone heard of or seen the video: Red
Hot Dance? I cant seem to locate it locally
around here but would consider mail-order if
I knew where to get it.

Also, if some one _has_ seen it, I would appreciate
a brief summary either publically or via email.

Thank you.

-- 
Bill
will@wixer.cactus.org
From: berninge@cs.purdue.EDU (James Berninger)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: NCOD: Who came out?
Date: 14 Oct 92 19:11:48 GMT
Distribution: na
Organization: Department of Computer Science, Purdue University

I recall that last year, the local paper devoted a couple
column-inches to tell us that Dick Sargent and (her name eludes me
-- she played Zelda on "The Many Loves of Dobie Gillis") came out
for NCOD.  This year, either the paper conveniently forgot, or I
missed it altogether.

Did any relatively famous people come out this year, or did the
500th anniversary of the American Invasion overshadow everything?

Just wondering...

Jim Berninger                   ______ "This is no 'Whoops!'  This is
berninge@cs.purdue.edu          \    /  an 'Aaaaaaaauuuuuggggghhhh!'"
B0.2 f(~) w- c- g k? s- e r- p   \  /   - Harvey ("Arnold") Fierstein
Green Lantern Fan, Extraordinaire \/      "Torch Song Trilogy"
From: kenr@cabezon.uucp (Ken Richards)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: Ella (was Re: Dietrich, Madonna, etc.)
Date: 12 Oct 92 18:26:54 GMT
Article-I.D.: cabezon.1992Oct12.182654.14681
Organization: Logic Modeling Corporation of Beaverton Oregon

anderson@macc.wisc.edu (Jess Anderson) writes:


>In article <1b7ercINN1pp@mizar.usc.edu>
>adolphso@mizar.usc.edu (adolphson) writes:

>>Of course Ella is a big name in jazz, but she pales in
>>significance next to Billie Holiday.  Hell, all jazz singers
>>with the exception of Louis Armstrong pale in significance
>>next to Billie Holiday.

>Apples and oranges, I think.  Blues != jazz.  Billie Holiday
>is the ultimate blues singer, and though far from alone in
>the mastery of that art, she's today's quintessence of it.
>I agree Ella's not in that class and never was.  In terms of
>ballades, Ella could never have laid a finger on Sarah
>Vaughn, either.

Hey, hey, HEY! Careful, you're talking about the woman I love.
Ella has been faulted by critics for not being able to
sing blue and melancholy convincingly. What can I say? You can't
make an angel sing the blues. Ella's voice embodies joy and
happiness and this comes through in everything she sings. But
then, I'm too far gone on her to discuss this rationally!


>  But (as Steve mentions) scat singing, Ella
>did that as no other, I think.  This alone does not an icon
>make, arguably.  But it's the purest form of jazz singing, I
>think, because jazz is -- if nothing else -- the improvised,
>spontaneous live chamber music of modern times.

Ken "Waiting impatiently for December so I can start playing
     my Ella Christmas albums again" Richards


-- 
___________________________________________________________________________
   Ken Richards        |                | It's tragic that families can be 
 Logic Modeling Corp   |  kenr@lmc.com  | torn apart by something as simple
                       |                | as wild dogs.
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: Harry Foster <foster@convex.COM>
Subject: Re: "Honor Bound"
Originator: foster@magnum.convex.com
Date: Wed, 14 Oct 1992 02:40:54 GMT
Reply-To: foster@convex.COM (Harry Foster)
Organization: Engineering, CONVEX Computer Corp., Richardson, Tx., USA
X-Disclaimer: This message was written by a user at CONVEX Computer
              Corp. The opinions expressed are those of the user and
              not necessarily those of CONVEX.

Gary Byma writes:
>I just finished reading Joseph Steffan's "Honor Bound: A Gay
>American Fights for the Right to Serve His Country" and I want
>to highly recommend. In it he presents a moving account of his
>awareness of his homosexuality and his coming out process. Many
>of the points he relates were things that I too had felt and
>experienced.

A few weeks ago, I had the pleasure of attending a dinner with 
Joseph as a guest.  He related his Academy coming out story, and 
there wasn't a dry eye in the house when he finished.  I found 
him to be a very dynamic, charming, and moving speaker, and I highly 
recommend his book to anyone searching for the strength and courage to 
come out.  His current involvement with the Victory Fund epitomizes 
political gay activism, and is a model for us all.

After the dinner, a group of us were teasing him about the 
undespoiled-looking photo of him in the inside of the back cover.  
He responded that his publisher insisted on that photograph "since 
it as that come fuck me look." :-)

BTW, I asked him if he was going to attend the MOW '93.  He
responded: "Party time ... I wouldn't miss it for the world!"

Me either!  See ya in DC in 93.
-- 
Harry Foster                                        foster@convex.com 

    "Every good Christian ought to kick Falwell right in the ass!"
				-Republican Senator Barry Goldwater
From: nelson@reed.edu (Nelson Minar)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: Ella (was Re: Dietrich, Madonna, etc.)
Date: 10 Oct 92 23:06:02 GMT
Article-I.D.: reed.1992Oct10.230602.7960
Reply-To: nelson@reed.edu (Nelson Minar)
Organization: Reed College, Portland, OR

In article <1b7ercINN1pp@mizar.usc.edu> adolphso@mizar.usc.edu (adolphson) writes:
>I'm still stuck on the idea that if it's not talked about by Mary
>Hart or the MTV video jockeys, then it's not part of our culture.

has someone said this? Maybe Melmon has - I wouldn't know, because I
have this reflex to hit the "n" key when I see an article by him.

>Each new group of 18-24 year olds does *not* create the world from
>scratch.

has someone claimed that we do?
                __
nelson@reed.edu \/     What in this room is alive and what doesn't have life?
From: adolphso@mizar.usc.edu (adolphson)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: Ah, Smell the Fashion.
Date: 7 Oct 1992 09:49:32 -0700
Organization: University of Southern California, Los Angeles, CA
NNTP-Posting-Host: mizar.usc.edu

In article <BvqztK.A5u@cs.vu.nl> 
fjvwing@cs.vu.nl (FJ!!) writes:
> adolphso@mizar.usc.edu (adolphson) writes:

[There are only 62 shopping days left
 until my birthday.]

> >Guerlain colognes are *really* nice.)
>
> Guerlain? Which?

Jicky.  It's expensive and available at exactly 
*one* store in all of Los Angeles.

[Just 62 days.]

> The single most expensive item I wear comes out of a bottle of Equipage
> by Hermes. Sparingly, and only on the chest. He'll only smell it when
> he's really close.

Oh my.

>					FJ!! (Yes, dears, this is the
>					cue for you all to talk about
>					how wonderful men smell
>					naturally and how scents are
>					all fashion.)

                                        Well, yes, the natural smell
                                        of men is very nice.  Jack
                                        Hamilton and I once had a
                                        long conversation about 
                                        sweat.  I've forgotten what
                                        we said, but I remember
                                        distinctly that I had a
                                        strong urge to *shower*
                                        afterwards.  

Arne

Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: anderson@macc.wisc.edu (Jess Anderson)
Subject: Re: Now is the time
Organization: Madison Academic Computing Center, UW-Madison
Date: Tue, 13 Oct 92 19:48:44 GMT


In article <1992Oct13.191248.27918@exu.ericsson.se>
exukev@exu.ericsson.se (Kevin Autrey) writes:

A coming-out call to everyone who isn't out.

Yay, Kevin, way to go!  Great article.  Hope a lot of people
(a) read it and (b) act on it.

-- 
Jess Anderson <> Madison Academic Computing Center <> University of Wisconsin
Internet: anderson@macc.wisc.edu <-best, UUCP:{}!uwvax!macc.wisc.edu!anderson
NeXTmail w/attachments: anderson@yak.macc.wisc.edu  Bitnet: anderson@wiscmacc
Room 3130 <> 1210 West Dayton Street / Madison WI 53706 <> Phone 608/262-5888
From: anderson@macc.wisc.edu (Jess Anderson)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: "Advocate" editor interviewed on CNN
Date: 9 Oct 92 04:36:59 GMT
Organization: Madison Academic Computing Center, UW-Madison


In article <1992Oct8.220211.18370@midway.uchicago.edu>
elle@midway.uchicago.edu writes:

>On the other hand, a number of reporters for GLBO papers
>have been tracking the _DAN_ Quayle rumor for four years
>now, but can't get anyone willing to talk on the record.

Any day now, the Apple Attitude Queen is going to show up in
a lurid photo on the front of the Enquirer, beneath a giant
banner proclaiming, "He was my One True Icon, but when his
butt began to sag, I threw him out!"

-- 
Jess Anderson <> Madison Academic Computing Center <> University of Wisconsin
Internet: anderson@macc.wisc.edu <-best, UUCP:{}!uwvax!macc.wisc.edu!anderson
NeXTmail w/attachments: anderson@yak.macc.wisc.edu  Bitnet: anderson@wiscmacc
Room 3130 <> 1210 West Dayton Street / Madison WI 53706 <> Phone 608/262-5888
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: amz@iguana.cis.ohio-state.edu (Arnold M Zwicky)
Subject: Re: Culture (was Re: Ah, Fashion.)
Followup-To: soc.motss
Summary: prodigious oeuvre, and what to do with it
Organization: columpalobus altohicali ofornia
Date: Sun, 11 Oct 1992 01:05:26 GMT

in article <1992Oct10.224530.13189@macc.wisc.edu>
anderson@macc.wisc.edu (jess anderson) replies to jfh@netcom.com
(jack hamilton)'s having said:
    >>He's dismayed by the prodigious size of your oeuvre.
    >>Don't worry, he'll get used to it. 
with the rhetorical question:
  >I'm afraid he hasn't a lot of choice in the matter, does he?

perhaps the young man could be counseled to lie back and think of
madonna.  or if he's still looking for my donna, he could just wave
his beautiful hair and SI-I-ING!

Gluecklich ist, wer vergisst,
Was doch nicht zu aendern ist.

arnold (quoting perhaps imperfectly, having a good memory for
          melodies but a rather imperfect one for words - yes,
          an odd profile for a linguist, but there it is)
From: billy@briarpatch.uucp (Billy Green)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: "adorable", indeed...
Date:      8 Oct 92 20:25:04 PDT
Organization: Briarpatch Associates, San Francisco, CA

Subject: Re: Ah, Fashion.

>Chip Hoover _defines_ the phrase "adorable", 

I have to disqualify myself from voting on this matter.  Not impartial
enough.....

>not that Billy Green is any
>slouch.  

.....In this matter, however, I must say that you are *VERY* much 
understating the matter.

>However, we were unable to judge Billy as well as we might have
>because he claimed, but did not demonstrate, that his streak of white hair
>in a field of brown, runs completely down the center of his body, from his
>forelock, thru his moustache and below, and unfortunately, we didn't get
>below.

What's that supposed to mean, "didn't get below"?  

My chin was in FULL VIEW the entire time.

I will say that there's much more white hair below my neck.  I will also 
say that these white hairs are indeed equidistant from both right and left 
shoulders.  How far below my neck do they reach?  I'll never tell.

But the ever-growing white patch just above my forehead is the most
bothersome of all.  I don't mind *having* gray hair.  I just mind that many
people assume that I dye it that way.



Billy Green

"...surely anybody, presupposing a certain bias toward sanity, can 
understand the Classics of our own language, with the exception, of course,
of Browning."		--Wodehouse, "Tales Of St. Austin's" (1903)
From: gklein@uoft02.utoledo.edu (Gary Klein, bear at heart)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: Vacationing in Europe
Date: 16 Oct 92 02:44:09 GMT
Organization: Carlson Library, Univ of Toledo

In article <1687FE576.CJR10@CCCVM.CCC.AMDAHL.COM>, cjr10@cccvm.ccc.amdahl.com 
   (Chris Russell) writes:
> I don't care a lot for real rural areas, I'm too much of a city boy.
> I went to Yosemite last weekend and stayed over one night. I got
> bored real fast (the "deluxe" rooms at the Yosemite lodge didn't have
> TV sets!). And there were too many people there.

     One of the vacations that I took this year was roaming around the
countryside of Northern California, Western Nevada, and Southern Oregon, all by
myself, in a rented car.  Despite the self-imposed hectic pace of putting on
1,500 miles in 7 days time, I thoroughly enjoyed my time away from work (except
for that TOTALLY tasteless Chinese restaurant in Downtown Klamath Falls.

(HEY YOU FOLKS FROM THE PORTLAND CHOIRS, keep away from this restaurant)

     I took in landscapes that were rural/suburban/urban, as well as ocean,
forests, lakes, and mountains.  Stayed in a different motel every night, and
never got bored!  But if you have a mandatory requirement for lodgings which
will give you access to a color television, then you might be paying a good
amount of bucks for just a few hours of lodgings.  The choice is yours!

     One of the lowest priced vacations I took was a whirlwind tour of 3 states
+ 3 provinces, covering 2,200 miles in 8 days (with a couple who I met via
GAYNET & BEARS_MAILING_LIST).  But that was almost ALL national/state park
lands, which don't seem to enthrall you.  We probably spent more money on 
gasoline, than we did on food.

     Everyone needs their own form of relaxation, just as Thoreau noted how
each person marches to the music of a different drummer!
-- 

                                               "Librarian, Leather bound"
Gary Klein,   Business Librarian,  (Univ of Toledo)           * * * * 
PO Box 12650                  Toledo OH  43606-0250            *   *   
(w): 419-537-2629      fac2813@uoft01                            *   
(h): 419-243-2740      fac2813@uoft01.utoledo.edu         B4 t+ w- g s+ k
Xref: sparky soc.motss:42765 soc.bi:13633
From: tachyon@cats.ucsc.edu (Tane' Tachyon)
Newsgroups: soc.motss,soc.bi
Subject: Re: gay science fiction (and a moment of shamelessness...)
Date: 11 Oct 1992 19:30:42 GMT
Organization: Tachyon Labs
NNTP-Posting-Host: am.ucsc.edu


In article <1992Oct11.031245.26551@news.Hawaii.Edu> johnf@uhheph.phys.hawaii.edu (John Flanagan) writes:
>In article <1atscaINNer@darkstar.UCSC.EDU> tachyon@cats.ucsc.edu
>(Tane' Tachyon) writes:
>>In article <1992Oct5.023256.13200@spdcc.com> dyer@spdcc.com (Steve
>Dyer) writes:
>>>
>>>Really?  It made me swear off screwing anyone with a tail,
>[...]
>>>and a first name with an apostrophe in it.
>>
>>Aw, fuck ... I hope this isn't a common reaction for people who've
>>read Elf's stories ... though maybe it would explain a few things.  :-)
>
>You mean that's not an accent aigu, Tane'?  Well, well, his casts a
>whole new light on things.

Actually it is an accent, but in telecommunications English the
vagaries of people's character sets and word-length settings lead me
to use an apostrophe instead of an accented e.
 
I still try to live the science fiction life, though ... not too long
ago I even had another being growing inside my body.  Said being is
now asking me to log off and take him to the Jewish Cultural Fair.  :-)
 
No doubt there are also some people out there getting stuck with
things like O'Connor as a first name.

-- 
 ____________________________________________________________________________
|tachyon@deeptht.armory.com  \        /__    One of the Bivariant Illuminati |
|      tachyon@ucscb.ucsc.edu  \    /   /  Happy National Coming-Out Day!    |
|         tachyon@cats.ucsc.com  \/   /  I was just called a barbarian slob. |
 ----------------------------------\/----------------------------------------
From: jhb@calmasd.prime.com (Jim Bishop)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: Ah, Fashion.
Date: 8 Oct 92 06:49:31 GMT
Organization: -

In article <1992Oct2.143845.836@fig.citib.com>, 
glp@fig.citib.com (Greg Parkinson) writes:
> 
> Living in New York City as I do, I am often unhappy
> witness to appearance trends which one assumes will 
> eventually be assigned to the column of unfortunate
> mistakes which includes but is not limited to avocado
                                                ^^^^^^^
> gold appliances and Quiana shirts in antique car patterns.
  ^^^^

Uh, it's avocado *green* or *harvest* gold.  In the 70's you obviously
spent more time at the disco than in the kitchen.  Avocado gold sounds
like some kind of tequila based chip dip.  Of course to be fashionable
today it would teal or Navajo white...which I hope doesn't turn out to
be unfortunate mistake too soon.  (Is there a timeless appliance
color?)

Anyone want a good deal on slightly used, harvest gold, pre-digital
microwave, and all electric GE range combo?  I'm sure it would look
great in 70's period kitchen restoration.

Jim