HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: cramer@optilink.COM (Clayton Cramer)
Newsgroups: talk.politics.misc,misc.legal
Subject: Re: Who's weakening the constitution?
Date: 19 Jan 93 01:39:05 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: Optilink Corporation, Petaluma, CA

In article <1993Jan16.061022.1855@Princeton.EDU>, niepornt@phoenix.Princeton.EDU (David Marc Nieporent) writes:
> In article <13906@optilink.COM> cramer@optilink.COM (Clayton Cramer) writes:
# ## Which explains why the *real* leftist Democrats, Brown and Agran, were
# ## treated so fairly and seriously by the news media.
# 
# #Actually, I think Agran received far more coverage than his little
# #campaign received, at least based on money and national recognition.
# #Brown, in any case, ran a campaign against special interest power
# #this time, making himself anethema to the left.  Brown stands for
# #nothing but Brown.
# 
# Agran received coverage?  Besides on this net, where?  Brown echoed

Every newspaper that I regularly read covered Agran's campaign.
Far more than I saw any reason for.

# leftist rhetoric about special interests perfectly.  Perhaps, like Pat

He did?  He was OPPOSED to special interests.  The left is nothing
but special interests (not including, however, corporate special
interests).

# Buchanan, you think anyone more liberal than Adolph Hitler is a leftist, 
# but you're wrong.  Brown *was* the left.

I think of Adolf Hitler as a leftist.  He believed that individuals
didn't matter, and unlimited state power is a good thing.

# ## Anyway, we now have the claim that, despite the fact that the media was
# ## unable to defeat Clinton in the primaries, it somehow managed to defeat
# ## Bush in the general election.  This is getting sillier and sillier.
#  
# #Not at all.  Unable to defeat one of the more conservative Democrats
# #in the primaries, they closed ranks behind the more leftist of the
# #major candidates.  It's the same reason that leftists who vigorously
# #attacked Clinton in the primaries voted for him in the general
# #election.  Do you really not understand this?
# 
# As usual, Clayton, you missed the point.  I wasn't questioning the
# ideological aspects of your absurd claim.  I was questioning the
# logistics.  The press was unable to defeat Clinton, despite the extreme

Yes, because of the reorganization of the Democratic Party by more
conservative factions, such as Gore and Clinton.  After the 1988
debacle, a decision was made to try and move more of the Southern
Democratic primaries early enough in the game to influence the results
more.  Did you miss that?

# measures they utilized, and yet they managed to be responsible for the
# defeat of a much stronger candidate, Bush?
# 
# David M. Nieporent   | "We don't need anymore [sic] wretched refuse.  It's 

Bush wasn't strong anything.  Large numbers of conservatives (about
1 in 5) voted for Perot because of disgust with Bush's leftist politics.


-- 
Clayton E. Cramer {uunet,pyramid}!optilink!cramer  My opinions, all mine!
"When freedom destroys order, order will destroy freedom." -- Eric Hoffer
Not a goal, just a statement of reality.
Newsgroups: talk.politics.misc,alt.politics.elections,alt.politics.clinton
From: Dr. Norman J. LaFave <lafave@ial4.jsc.nasa.gov>
Subject: Re: DAY THREE: Either a lie or utter stupidity
X-Xxmessage-Id: <A78C03540E03192A@42.25.154.146.in-addr.arpa>
X-Xxdate: Wed, 27 Jan 93 09:16:04 GMT
Organization: Lockheed Engineering & Sciences Company
X-Useragent: Nuntius v1.1.1d15
Date: Wed, 27 Jan 1993 15:19:59 GMT

In article <1993Jan26.191043.15384@Princeton.EDU> Norbert Schlenker,
nfs@elan writes:
> In article <1993Jan26.164820.27794@aio.jsc.nasa.gov> Dr. Norman J.
LaFave 
> <lafave@ial4.jsc.nasa.gov> writes:
> >
> >Well Broward, if you're so sure you're right, then leave.
> 
> Here it is in black and white, folks.  The liberal redneck.
> "Love it or leave it."

It WAS HE who said he was going to leave, not I. I just suggested
that if that was his attitude, I hope he doesn't let the door hit
him in the *** on the way out.

> 
> >We who are working
> >to better this nation don't need defeatist do-nothings around
> >dragging on our efforts....
> >
> >Dr. Norman J. LaFave
> >Senior Engineer
> >Lockheed Engineering and Sciences Company
> 
> Hmmm... Lockheed.  How long is your job going to last?  Maybe
> you should be checking out Uruguay too.

Maybe you should read the thread more carefully before making
a fool of yourself.

Norman

Dr. Norman J. LaFave
Senior Engineer
Lockheed Engineering and Sciences Company




When the going gets weird, the weird turn pro
                               Hunter Thompson
Xref: sparky talk.politics.misc:70501 alt.politics.clinton:21542
From: an030@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Broward Horne)
Newsgroups: talk.politics.misc,alt.politics.clinton
Subject: Re: THANK YOU, BILL!!! THANK YOU!!
Date: 28 Jan 1993 22:59:25 GMT
Organization: Case Western Reserve University, Cleveland, OH (USA)
Reply-To: an030@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Broward Horne)
NNTP-Posting-Host: hela.ins.cwru.edu


In a previous article, matjmm@gsusgi1.gsu.edu (J. Morgan Morris) says:

>
>Apology accepted, but don't feel sorry for me. I'm working hard to keep
>my family together, and to provide a good upbringing for my children. i 
>just refuse to go into spasms over money, since it's truly a secondary
>issue. My best reward occurred yesterday, when my daughter's pre-school
>teacher said that "she's the closest thing to a gifted student that I've
>ever seen in all my years in teaching." Makes a lot of things
>seem irrelevant.
>
>Go ahead, make me a target.  I double dare you! :) All I ask is that
>you make sense when you post...


     I'm not talking about ME making you a target.  You've been 
      targeting by Uncle Sam.  The Federal Lawnmower is coming,
      and consumption and jobs are going away.  It's really not
      very hard to figure out.  No nation is HISTORY has ever 
     been able to grow itself out of a huge debt.  The American
     people have been secretly kidding themselves that the debt
     would get so large, the government would just 

      " forgive it" or print money, etc.


      NOT going to happen.  I admit, I was worried for a few 
      minutes, but once Clinton started jabbering "Energy Bill"
      I knew it.  The middle class is sold out, big time.

      If you want a small model of the deflationary forces about
      to hit, look at California for the past 3 or 4 years.

      The gravy train is coming to an END!    Yeah!

>
>Later,
>Morgan
>
>-- 
>
>John Morgan Morris
>Department of Mathematics and Computer Science
>Georgia State University
>University Plaza
>Atlanta, GA. 30303-3083
>
>Internet: matjmm@gsusgi1.gsu.edu
>Telephone: (404) 651-2253
>FAX: (404) 651-2246
>
>

Newsgroups: talk.politics.misc,alt.politics.elections,alt.politics.clinton
From: matjmm@gsusgi1.gsu.edu (J. Morgan Morris)
Subject: Re: DAY THREE: Either a lie or utter stupidity
Organization: Georgia State University
Date: Mon, 25 Jan 1993 19:03:43 GMT

mdl@cypress.com (Matt Landrum) writes:

>In article <matjmm.727895331@gsusgi1.gsu.edu> matjmm@gsusgi1.gsu.edu (J. Morgan Morris) writes:

>   ck347@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Richard A. Mulac) writes:

>   > Blah blah.......
>   >
>   > Either he's a bold-faced liar or we need to impose an
>   >IQ test requirement on those persons who wish to run for President in 1996.
>   >And people said Quayle was stupid?  This man has brains enough to run the
>   >country?  Come on Clinton defenders, let's see how far you'll stretch 
>   >reality to excuse him on this one.

>   A few points:

>   (1) Before you criticize, where's *your* Rhodes Scholarship? Clinton's
>       one of the brightest politicians we've seen in a long time.

>   (2) I don't know whether Quayle is stupid, but he certainly said
>       some stupid things. And that "deer-in-the headlights" look does
>       him in. Rest assured that Clinton is much smarter than Quayle, and
>       for that matter Quayle, Bush, and Reagan put together.

>   (3) I somehow feel as if I'm lowering myself by replying to your
>       insipid posts, but I'll get over it.

>   Later,
>   Morgan

>Look Morgan, if you're going to get down and dirty with this type of
>partisan poster, you need to do something trite like pointing out a
>spelling error (bald-faced, not bold-faced), then say something like
>"yer mamma".  It's the only way to handle these types.  They don't
>listen to reasonable arguments or desire constructive dialog.

Thanks for the advice, and I think I understand what you're saying. I should
spend less time making sense, and more time (1) analyzing syntax and 
(2) name-calling, since that's all that some people understand. Your advice
helps in more ways than one -- now that I understand these people, I can
understand how Reagan ever got elected.

>Clinton may have gone back on some promises and made an error
>nominating Zoe Baird for Attorney General, but I think he's wise to
>take his lumps rather than pull a "READ MY LIPS" a few years from now.

I wasn't fond of Ms. Baird myself, given her ties to Aetna, etc. And I'm
glad to hear Clinton taking responsibility.

>Just trying to help...

Appreciated. I'll dig up my insults file immediately....

Later,
Morgan



-- 

John Morgan Morris
Department of Mathematics and Computer Science
Georgia State University
University Plaza
Atlanta, GA. 30303-3083

Internet: matjmm@gsusgi1.gsu.edu
Telephone: (404) 651-2253
FAX: (404) 651-2246

Newsgroups: talk.politics.misc,alt.peeves,talk.politics.medicine,soc.culture.usa,soc.culture.african.american,sci.med
From: brandon@caldonia.nlm.nih.gov (Brandon Brylawski)
Subject: Re: Statement of President Clinton on Health Care Reform Task Force
Organization: National Library of Medicine
X-Newsreader: Tin 1.1 PL4
Date: Wed, 27 Jan 93 16:20:23 GMT

zursch@whizkid.wpd.sgi.com (Jeffrey B. Zurschmeide) writes:


: I took EMT training a short while ago, and the guy who taught
: it was an ex-paramedic. He told us that he tries to get everyone
: he teaches or knows to get a medic-alert bracelet with their 
: insurance information on it, because without it, you simply will
: not get treated until someone plunks down a card for you. He said
: that this is especially important for non-white people, who routinely
: die in the ER for lack of care because they don't assume that you
: can pay or have insurance.

I would like to dispute this. Having worked in a typical ER for quite a while,
I can attest that NOBODY gets turned away for ANYTHING. The hospital routinely
soaks up the cost of those who can't or won't pay. While many physicians will
not accept an office patient without proof of insurance, this is Manifestly NOT
true for emergency rooms, in my experience. I have treated hundreds of uninsured
broke people for conditions that were not urgent (for example, bad head colds) or
not really medical problems (for example, being found drunk on the street) in
the ER, because legally the hospital CANNOT refuse to see a patient with a potentially
serious problem, and there is no way to sort out nuisance complaints from 
emergencies without a proper exam.

Brandon Brylawski, MD
Xref: sparky talk.politics.misc:70309 alt.politics.usa.misc:989 alt.politics.reform:273
From: thomasr@cpqhou.se.hou.compaq.com (G. Thomas Rush)
Newsgroups: talk.politics.misc,alt.politics.usa.misc,alt.politics.reform
Subject: Re: Libertarians and Labor Unions
Date: 27 Jan 93 19:37:47 GMT
Organization: Compaq Computer Corp

In article <C19vJ4.BD7@dartvax.dartmouth.edu> Timothy.J.Young@dartmouth.edu (Timothy J. Young) really starts to unveil his ignorance:
>In article <Jym.19Jan1993.1919@naughty-peahen>
>jym@mica.berkeley.edu (Jym Dyer) writes:
>
>> =o= Unless that happens, it is entirely reasonable to suspect
>> the Libertarian platform of representing the interests of
>> powerful members of the private sector rather than the interests
>> of individuals _per_se_.
>>     <_Jym_>
>
> Well, Jym, there's a good reason it seems that way : it is that way.
>Big Business would rather deal with a small government than a big one,
>so they can get away with more shady dealings. 

I think not.  Have you noticed, in your loved big government, how
beholden the big business watchers are to the watched?  I look at
regulatory agencies and see small but powerful men handing out 
favors and writing rules to keep those they watch comfortable.

>                                               The Libertarian party
>has money : do you think a truly progressive party would ever get the
>kind of financial support the Libertarian Party gets? 

Pure conjecture, and easily disproven, to boot.  The Libertarian 
Party is constantly damn near broke.  The Texas organization is
still paying off a debt incurred to gain ballot access in the mid
1980's (over 2/3 of the $25,000 bill remains).

>                                                  Of course it's a
>party of wealthy private interest : so are the Republicans, and, to a
>lesser extent, the Democrats.

Interesting.  The figures I've seen consistently over the last eight
years or so show that the _Democrats_ get a larger percentage of 
donations from PACs and large contributors than the Republicans do.
How does that square with your world view, Tim?

>                              Personally, Wall Street frightens me a
>lot more than Washington does...

Somehow, I'm not surprised.  The question is, _why_?

Btw, Tim, many Libertarians fear big business, as well -- but we have
seen how big business allies itself with big government to increase
inequities and preserve access to power over others.



thomas rush			compaq computer corporation	
thomasr@cpqhou.compaq.com	their employee, not their opinions.
By my belief that government should be minimized, I swear to oppose
the unrequested intrusion of government into the lives of individuals
From: m23364@mwunix (James Meritt)
Newsgroups: talk.politics.misc
Subject: Re: Clinton's flip-flop on Haitians!
Date: 25 Jan 93 19:33:10 GMT
Organization: MITRE Corporation, McLean VA

In article <147145@lll-winken.LLNL.GOV> ed@wente.llnl.gov (Ed Suranyi) writes:
}In article <20JAN199313533938@vxcrna.cern.ch> casper@vxcrna.cern.ch (CASPER,DAVI./PPE) writes:
}
}[about the ban on gays in the military]
}
}>Didn't he promise to end it immediately?  Didn't he know there was opposition
}>to it then?
}
}No, he did NOT promise to end the band immediately.  During the campaign,
}he said that he opposed the ban.  He still does, and as an earlier poster
}said, the ban will probably be removed within the next few years.


oh, really?


Clinton's written policy statement, May 27, 1992:
	"The Bush policy 'is another sad example of the administration's callous
response to a terrible human tragedy...If I were president, I would - in the absence
of clear and compelling evidence that they weren't political refugees - give them
temporary asylum until we restored the elected government of Haiti"
Newsgroups: talk.politics.misc,alt.fan.rush-limbaugh
From: ctdonath@mothra.syr.EDU (Carl T. Donath)
Subject: Re: Why are conservatives so stupid ?
In-reply-to: kkopp@uxh.cso.uiuc.edu's message of Mon, 25 Jan 1993 23:04:17 GMT
Organization: Syracuse University
Date: Tue, 26 Jan 93 23:13:10 EST


Simple: 
	- everyone has an opinion
	- everyone has what they consider to be good reasons for that opinion
	- people usually cannot understand the reasons that support
	  opposing views _and/or_ feel their reasons are better than the
	  opposition's reasons (otherwise they would hold the opposing opinion)
	- this results in "_my_ opinion has superior reasoning compared to
	  _your_ opinion, and since you don't share my superior opinion,
	  you must be stupid!"
	- this occurs in nearly all people, regardless of whether they are
	  conservative, liberal, moderate, libertarian, monarchist, fascist,
	  socialist, communist, anarchist, aristocrat, poor, liberal arts,
	  management, peons, engineers, scientists, philosophers, rednecks,
	  nymphomaniacs, ornothologists, spelunkers, drug addicts, game
	  addicts, VR addicts, food addicts, air addicts, or any other 
	  classification of human beans.
	- the victim of the "you're stupid" remark prompts a verbal (or
	  occasional physical) retaliation, and few people are happy to 
	  not have the last word.

Aaaaah, the joys of dualism.

    



--
    ___________________________________________
 __/ ctdonath@rodan.acs.syr.edu  Carl T Donath \____
/ The government is not your mother. Do it yourself. \
Newsgroups: talk.politics.misc,alt.politics.clinton,alt.president.clinton
From: steven@advtech.uswest.com ( Steve Novak)
Subject: Re: Reality is a b!tch
Organization: U S WEST Advanced Technologies
Distribution: usa
Date: Wed, 27 Jan 1993 16:46:12 GMT

> = (Gary Blumenstein) writes:

[...]
>Bush was right, Clinton's character is 
>personified by his draft dodging coverup.  Not on the issue of whether or not 
>he was willing to serve his country, but by his failure to simply face himself 
>and come clean with the American people.  Bill Clinton knows in his heart who 
>he is.  

60% of draft age men did something to dodge the draft.  (This from a
book by Margaret Tuchman.)  Clinton indeed knows who he is.  The
American people voted Clinton into office knowing damn well his actions 
concerning the draft.

After all, that's all Quayle (draft dodger) and Bush could talk about the 
entire campaign, a big reason why they lost. 

I hated the goddam Vietnam war.  If people are already forgetting
history, the U.S. government was so devious, so evil, and so STUPID in
their conducting of the war that no intelligent individual who did
anything to avoid it should be mocked, but rather PRAISED.

It's about time we have a president that doesn't blindly genuflect to
the American flag.

>God help us.

If there is a god, which I doubt, he just did.  See January 20th.

-- 
+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+
| Steve Novak |    |"Wacker the K"| 
+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+
steven@advtech.USWest.Com
Xref: sparky talk.politics.misc:69199 alt.activism:21185 alt.conspiracy:14471 alt.fan.rush-limbaugh:13474
From: an030@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Broward Horne)
Newsgroups: talk.politics.misc,alt.activism,alt.conspiracy,alt.fan.rush-limbaugh
Subject: Re: Privatization
Date: 22 Jan 1993 14:17:39 GMT
Organization: Case Western Reserve University, Cleveland, OH (USA)
Reply-To: an030@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Broward Horne)
NNTP-Posting-Host: hela.ins.cwru.edu


In a previous article, thf2@ellis.uchicago.edu (Ted Frank) says:

>>     Note that your posting doesn't refute what I've said.
>
>Yes it does.
>
>Phone system?  We're private, everyone else is government owned.

       Sigh.  


     NOTE THAT YOUR POSTING DOESN'T REFUTE WHAT I'VE SAID.  THAT, GIVEN
     CURRNET TRENDS, EMMIGRATING OUT OF THE U.S. IS A viable option.

     

     Supporting examples:  Britain and Canada

>
>Health care?  We're private, everyone else is public.

     Not for long, chum.   hehehehehe.  I can't wait.

>
>Air travel?  We're private, almost everyone else is public.

     Yes, that seems to to be a bone of contention too.  I can't wait.>

     And you forgot to add the construction industry.

>What would you have us privatize that other countries are?  They're
>just privatising stuff that's been private here all along.  How can
>we implement the same privatization programs as them?  Unless we
>nationalize everything and *then* privatize it, but I suspect you'd
>be unhappy with that situation.
>--
     My best pal announced to me he's visiting Brazil in June.
     HE'S seen his future.  Anyone industrious by nature will continue
     getting dicked here.

     He's 25.  He KNOWS what's coming for HIM.  Higher taxes, to 
     support more social security, high land and home prices which 
     preclude being able to buy his own home, and continous job exodus.

     Besides, Frank, as been oft mentioned here, America doesn't need 
     " people like me ".  hehehheh.  An interesting decade ahead.

 
>ted frank                     | thf2@ellis.uchicago.edu 
>standard disclaimers          | void where prohibited
>the university of chicago law school, chicago, illinois 60637
>

Xref: sparky talk.politics.misc:69335 alt.activism:21218 alt.conspiracy:14501 alt.fan.rush-limbaugh:13553
From: an030@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Broward Horne)
Newsgroups: talk.politics.misc,alt.activism,alt.conspiracy,alt.fan.rush-limbaugh
Subject: Re: Privatization
Date: 23 Jan 1993 01:38:22 GMT
Organization: Case Western Reserve University, Cleveland, OH (USA)
Reply-To: an030@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Broward Horne)
NNTP-Posting-Host: hela.ins.cwru.edu


In a previous article, egl1@cunixf.cc.columbia.edu (Elizabeth G. Levy) says:

>>        Then you haven't checked out solar lately.  My counterpart 
>>    at University of Idaho is completely solar now.  I was amazed at
>>    the total cost.
>
>Solar won't work at all latitudes and all climates, though, you're
>right.  I haven't checked the solar industry recently, and was under
>the impression that it still isn't competitive with, say, gas.  Is U.
>Idaho running an experimental, trial project?

       trial??  This is his HOUSE!  It's commercial.  In fact,
    in the past month I've been bombarded by commercials
    from Idaho Power, about their new solar option.
>
>>  Another reason we'll see emmigration out of the
>>    U.S.  Iridium will go into operation, providing telephone service
>>    from anywhere on the globe.  The U.S. military is providing 
>>    protection world-wide, free of charge.  What else do you need?  :)
>
>Good plumbing.  Toilets outside of the US just suck.
>

      Exactly the attitude that will kill the U.S.

       Right now, I have my own septic tank, my own water, my
       own orchard.  There's no reason in the WORLD why I 
       couldn't duplicate my current standard of living in
      one of several countries, at about 1/10 the cost.

     Meanwhile, my technical skills put me in the top 5% of 
     jobs in most "undeveloped" countries, and cashing all
     my stuff in for U.S. dollars gives me a retirement 
     that I can only DREAM of in the U.S.

     Uruguay has a climate that would probably be conducive to solar.
     >
>
>--
><Phone rings> "Hello?...  He did what?...  Bomb 'em....  I'm still
>President."
>			-- Dana Carvey's George Bush, 1/16 SNL
>
From: pacyna@oasys.dt.navy.mil (Michael Pacyna)
Newsgroups: talk.politics.misc
Subject: POEM REQUEST
Date: 22 Jan 93 19:01:21 GMT
Reply-To: pacyna@oasys.dt.navy.mil (Michael Pacyna)
Organization: Carderock Division, NSWC, Bethesda, MD


Would someone please post the poem done by Maya Angelou at the Inauguration.


				       Mike
Xref: sparky talk.politics.misc:69540 alt.politics.elections:25119 alt.politics.clinton:21103
From: an030@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Broward Horne)
Newsgroups: talk.politics.misc,alt.politics.elections,alt.politics.clinton
Subject: Re: DAY THREE: Either a lie or utter stupidity
Date: 24 Jan 1993 19:09:11 GMT
Organization: Case Western Reserve University, Cleveland, OH (USA)
Reply-To: an030@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Broward Horne)
NNTP-Posting-Host: hela.ins.cwru.edu


In a previous article, ck347@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Richard A. Mulac) says:

>I don't know why CBS signed up Letterman to go up against Leno.  They should
>have signed Bill Clinton.  He'll make more people laugh (or possibly cry)
>over the next four years than either of them.


       I was JUST thinking this last night. 
       If you refuse to take it seriously, it's hilaryous.

>
>-- 
>Richard Mulac                                       ck347@cleveland.freenet.edu
>-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>       1996 election countdown - 1381 more days         | These pontifications 
> until the Democrats are thrown out of the White House  |      are my own!     
>

Xref: sparky talk.politics.misc:69544 alt.conspiracy:14567 alt.fan.rush-limbaugh:13703