From: magik@chinet.chi.il.us (Ben Liberman)
Newsgroups: sci.psychology
Subject: NLP and non-statistical inferential research
Date: 13 Apr 92 08:43:18 GMT
Reply-To: faulkner@crenelle.chi.il.us
Followup-To: sci.psychology
Organization: Chinet

This is being posted for Charles Faulkner who may be reached at:

faulkner@crenelle.chi.il.us

------------

In article <1992Apr9.150451.21431@Princeton.EDU>
roger@phoenix.Princeton.EDU (Roger Lustig) writes:
|In article <167C4936A.JHARTLEY@cmsa.gmr.com> JHARTLEY@cmsa.gmr.com writes:
|>In article <1992Apr9.013224.19962@news.Hawaii.Edu>
|>lady@uhunix.uhcc.Hawaii.Edu (Lee Lady) writes:
|>
|>
|>>Well I would be damned pleased to see some clinical psychologists do some
|>>rigorous studies to test the claims that NLP makes.  (There are in fact a
|>>few such studies.  Many too few, in my opinion.)  I don't in the least
|>>blame academics for being highly skeptical of these claims.  What does
|>>bother me though is the INDIFFERENCE by the clinical establishment to
|>>such claims.
|
|>>NLP claims, for instance, that a simple phobia can be cured in one
|>>session.
|
|Cynical aside: what's their definition of a "simple phobia"?  Is it one
|that can be cured in a single session?
|
|>  It claims that the same technique will neutralize traumatic
|>>memories just as quickly, so that PTSD (post-traumatic stress syndrome)
|>>becomes an easily treatable problem.  
|
|That's a HUGE claim, especially considering the vast variety and
|intensity of traumas, and the long time periods over which PTSD can
|manifest itself.  I hope you take this one with salt.
|


What is a phobia? What is a trauma? What is PTSD? Before you reach for a 
definition, the point is made. They are "defined" domains. If an 
individual's behavior "falls" within them, they have it. If not, not. 

May I propose a definition: Individuals that experience sudden and intense 
fear in the presence of a stimulus or on recalling it, and / or being "unable 
to put it out of their minds" have a phobia, trauma and/or PTSD. Thinking 
like a neo-behaviorist, what are the structural similarities between these 
defined difficulties (and what are the differences)? Next, do changes in 
the discovered similar structural varibles affect/effect a change of the 
autonomic responses (sweat, pulse, breathing) of individuals with the defined 
difficulties? If you determined that the significant variables are similar, 
then the relative intensity of the experience or the length of time 
untreated (duration) would be of relatively secondary importance, 
wouldn't they?

For instance, someone has a phobia (a sudden and intense feeling of fear 
on seeing something) of dogs. With Systematic Desensitization (a Behaviorist 
technique with verifiable "success" rate), he or she would watch a real dog 
from hundreds of yards away, as far away as it took for him or her to become 
somewhat calm. Then each day he or she would move closer while maintaining 
the same calm until he or she was finally up close to the dog and calm at 
the same time. Intensity of phobia, duration of difficulty, even size of dog 
are secondary to the structural features of the difficulty which allow it to 
basically be treated with distance.

NLP co-developer John Grinder was once asked what the difference was between 
the NLP Phobia Relief Method and Systematic Desensitization. Without a hint 
of humor he replied, "Six (6) months." You see, to use 
Systematic Desensitization to relieve you of a fear of dogs would take 
about six (6) months 
while the NLP Phobia Relief Method takes less than thirty (30) minutes. 

That's thirty (30) MINUTES. 

So what's going one here? So how is it possible that a university 
sanctioned, Ph.D. supervised approach could take as long as six (6) months 
and one you can do with an audiotape cassette or a book and a friend could 
take under thirty (30) minutes? It's the difference between doing the change 
on "the outside" and doing it on "the inside". Two of the fundamental principles 
or Presuppositions of NLP are: 1) The Map is no the Territory (from General 
Semantics founder Korzybski) which is to say that people have mental maps of 
experience and follow these maps and 2) Experience has a Structure. With 
Cognitive Therapy, Behavioral approaches and conditioning methods, one changes 
an internal map (fear of dogs, a critical inner voice, or even a belief) by 
adding external experiences. With NLP, the internal map of the experience is 
changed directly.

After all, the dogs in the world are not the source of the phobic's 
fear (though one or more of them may be the origin), but a stimulus for 
accessing/triggering an internal experience. Rearrangement of the structure 
of this stimulus-experience nexus becomes the domain of a successful therapy. 
Which socio-economic status group, age, educational level or ethnic responses 
best to the rearrangement of the structure of their stimulus-experience 
depends on the flexibility of the agent of the intervention. If the 
psychologist insisted on speaking like this article, only the classic profile 
(young, intelligent, verbal etc.) would find efficacy. If the agent said in 
Spanish, "See that shitty time way over there like it's on a little 
tiny b & w TV," he or she could work any clinic on the west side of Chicago. 

Once the change in structure is made and the difficulty relieved, the "client" 
may not be tested with any other therapeutic modality - one of the principle 
difficulties with all "clinical research". (On the other hand, if someone 
will locate a number of individuals experiencing dog phobias and a few dogs 
(or Vietnam Vets with PTSD and a functioning M-16 with blanks), I'll offer a 
day of my services and someone can write the study. (Fear of flying also 
interests me, but you'll have to supply the commercial plane and crew.))


--------------------------------------------------------

Charles Faulkner       faulkner@crenelle.chi.il.us


-- 
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	Ben Liberman    USENET    magik@chinet.chi.il.us
	                          magik@crenelle.chi.il.us
Newsgroups: sci.psychology