From: patrick@rio-grande.is.rice.edu (Patrick L Humphrey)
Subject: Re: Madeleine Murray O'Hare
Organization: William's Marsh, North Swamp
	<1992Dec31.183939.3539@radian.uucp> <1iatr1INNij4@fido.asd.sgi.com>
	<5JAN199322080860@jane.uh.edu>
Date: Wed, 6 Jan 1993 05:24:30 GMT

In article <5JAN199322080860@jane.uh.edu> lib1p@jane.uh.edu (Tammy Stark Blandino) writes:

   In article <1iatr1INNij4@fido.asd.sgi.com>, livesey@solntze.wpd.sgi.com (Jon Livesey) writes...
   >In article <4JAN199320163845@jane.uh.edu>, lib1p@jane.uh.edu (Tammy Stark Blandino) writes:
   >|> In article <1i63h6INNi2u@fido.asd.sgi.com>, livesey@solntze.wpd.sgi.com (Jon Livesey) writes...
   >|> >In article <3JAN199300363050@elroy.uh.edu>, lib1p@elroy.uh.edu (Tammy Stark Blandino) writes:
   >|> >|> In article <1i2raqINN8rh@fido.asd.sgi.com>, livesey@solntze.wpd.sgi.com (Jon Livesey) writes...

   >|> >|> 
   >|> >|> ...stuff from previous posts deleted.....
   >|> >|> 
   >|> >|> and blue laws (use to) let you buy a can of beans on sunday, but not a
   >|> >|> can opener to open it with.
   >|> >|> 
   >|> >|> Madeleine Murray O'Hare and her family has done a great deal to impose
   >|> >|> their will on non-atheists....
   >|> >|> 
   >|> >|> Not that I object to the end result, just the intent behind the means....
   >|> > 
   >|> > 
   >|> >Pardon my denseness, but is someone *making* you buy can openers
   >|> >on Sunday?
   >|> > 
   >|> >jon.
   >|> 
   >|> *SIGH!*
   >|> 
   >|> It's an example of christian fundamentalism and how it affects society in an 
   >|> area where it is strong and some of the STUPID laws and combination of laws
   >|> that get passed.
   > 
   >Then I guess I really am being dense.    

   YES .... YOU ARE!

Would you mind enlightening this agnostic (and Cougar High alum -- '77 :-)
as to in what way?

   >Previously there was a law
   >that prevented you from buying a can opener on Sunday, and now the
   >law has been changed.    Dr O'Hare didn't do that single handledly.
   >The legislature - or perhaps the State Supreme Court - did it.  In
   >any case, if you have relious objections to buyign can-openers on
   >Sunday, you don't have to do it.
   > 
   >Now how is that an example of her imposing her will on other people?
   > 
   >jon.


 Jon, I was not using it as an example of her imposing her will on people.  I 
 was using it to show how deeply rooted Xtianity is here in Texas.  

 O'Hare has done everything she can to affect the life of many Xtians.  I 
 remember when I was a teenager I was asked to sign a petition because O'Hare
 was trying to keep the churches from airing sermons on public tv.  I, for
 one, disagree with this, mainly because there are a number of old folk who
 are too infirm to get out and go to church.  While I am not a Christian and do
 not care to watch these shows, I still have the option of changing the channel
 or even turning the tv off.

I don't suppose you'd have a copy of that petition, would you?  I ask that
because this is one of those urban legends that has NO basis in fact, yet
keeps being repeated as though it actually occurred, when it didn't.  O'Hair
(note the right spelling) made no such attempt -- I've lived here in Houston
for 28 years, and I'd have noticed any such attempt, considering I was in my
mid-twenties when said alleged attempt took place.

   She had the option too, of changing the channel.  But she was trying to take
   away people's right to even see the broadcasts.  Public television is not
   federally funded with tax dollars.  They are funded by business advertising.
   If there are enough people in an area that wish to see a christian sermon
   on television and the tv stations make enough money off of the commercials
   to support it, then WHAT RIGHT has O'Hare to tell anybody that they can't.

You have yet to establish that she did any such thing.

  I guess that is why she wasn't successful.  But she was STILL trying to 
  impose her will on a religious sect.

If she had actually attempted such, I'd agree.  As it happened, though, she
didn't -- thus, you're railing about something that never was.

  And as for seeing O'Hare speak, unfortunately I have.  A despictable display.
  Were I an atheist I would not want O'Hare associated with me.  In my opinion,
  she has done more to hurt atheists than help.

PR for atheism, she's not skilled at -- I agree with you there.  But -- the
rest of your case against her is based on something that never happened in
the first place.

   I will admit that some of the things have been beneficial, but not all of
   them.  And her reasons for doing so have nothing to do with righting wrongs,
   rather her ability to impose her ideas on a group of people, namely the
   christian majority.

You're basing this whole argument on an urban legend.

--PLH, I think I'll re-subscribe to alt.folklore.urban -- it was beaten to
death in that newsgroup a couple of years ago, as it is...


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