HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: knights@IASTATE.EDU (Andrew H Combites)
Subject: Small Talk
Reply-To: knights@IASTATE.EDU (Andrew H Combites)
Organization: Iowa State University
Date: Fri, 22 Jan 1993 19:14:52 GMT

As I sit here and try to think of something to talk about, I was thinking of
some friends of mine that are marching in some Class A and A-60 or Division
II/III corps.  Whatever they are called now, I was wondering which of these
corps people like.  We spend so much time talking about the big guys that some
people might think there are only 12 or 17 or 25 corps out there.  Lets get some
opinions on some of the smaller corps.  We've all seen them at shows and surely
some of the things you have seen them do must be worth discussing?

I'll get things started.  I heard from a friend that the Nite Express (used to
be the Emerald knights) from Cedar Rapids, Iowa are playing music by Queen.  I
guess they are playing a few real common pieces, but they want to play some of
the more obscure pieces as well.  Ron Tibideaux(sp???) is the new corps
Director.  He used to be with the Expressions.  The Quad City Knights are doing
Jesus Christ Superstar.  If it is anything like there 1985 version, which
unfortunately it probably won't be, it should be pretty good.  One of the
biggest problem for the Knights is the fact that they are THE feeder corps for
the Top 12.  From the '90 and '91 corps, most of us went elsewhere in '92.  4 to
Bluecoats, I went to Cavaliers, 2 to Phantom, 1 to Madison, 1 to Spirit, etc. 
This has been happening for many years.  Therefore there is a lot of new people
in the corps each year with few vets.  I wonder if this is the story with so
many small, struggling corps?

I guess that's about it for now.  I hope everyone takes the time to think about
the small guys and I am interested in what you guys think.

Later,
Andy Combites
QC Knights '90-'91
Cavaliers '92-'94  
Newsgroups: rec.arts.marching.drumcorps
From: twomblyk@next09cville.wam.umd.edu (Kristian Twombly)
Subject: Re:Samll Talk
Organization: Workstations at Maryland, University of Maryland, College Park
Date: Sun, 24 Jan 1993 21:24:28 GMT

As a member of a small corps, I know what it is like to be in competitions  
with the large corps...
However, I think that it takes pride, disipline, and commitment (same as  
Open-Class Corps) to be in a small corps.
The worst thing, by far, is the predjudice recieved from both Open Corps,  
Div II Corps, and judges.  We usually lose to corps like Ventures and  
Acadamie, even if it is BLATANTLY obvious that we beat them...When given  
the chance, I watch the Open Corps perform...I know that they cannot  
always watch us, but just because a corps doesn't make finals doesn't mean  
that they stink(right, BAC?)

Kristian Twombly
Drum Major
Rochester Patriots 92-93
??????? 94
From: niel@cars.com (Niel Bornstein)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.marching.drumcorps
Subject: Re: Pat Metheny on Prodigy!
Date: Thu, 21 Jan 93 10:02:11 EDT
Organization: NMB productions
Reply-To: chinchilla!niel@cars.com
X-Mailer: uAccess - Macintosh Release: 1.6v1


In article <C14MtF.IJ9@usenet.ucs.indiana.edu> (rec.arts.marching.drumcorps), rdorocke@silver.ucs.indiana.edu (rob lawrence dorocke) writes:
>John Tesh ... a good reporter (ET).

Sorry, I couldn't help but snicker at this.  Not that I know if he's
a good reporter or not, it's just the fact that he works for ET.

Niel

---------------------------------------------------------------------------
| Niel M. Bornstein                              chinchilla!niel@cars.com |
|                                            ...csn!sable!chinchilla!niel |
|  _   _   _   ___                              71730.1056@compuserve.com |
| | | | | | | | __)                          1352 North Morningside Drive |
| | | | | | | | (_                                Atlanta, Georgia  30306 |
| | |_| |_| |_| __)  productions          (404) 872-6883   (404) 551-8075 |
|--------------------------------------------------------------------------
Newsgroups: rec.arts.marching.drumcorps
From: afo@hpwarht.wal.hp.com (Aaron Oppenheimer)
Subject: Woodwinds (was Re: Cadets cymbal line)
Date: Mon, 25 Jan 1993 19:07:51 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: Hewlett-Packard Company, Waltham, MA

In article <21764@ucdavis.ucdavis.edu>, matthews@eecs.ucdavis.edu (Thomas W. Matthews) writes:
|> I saw an issue of DCI Today in which the director of the Cadets
|> wrote in favor of considering adding electronic instruments
|> and woodwinds and etc. to the drumcorps activity.  This was in 
|> response to a letter urging that the activity keep its identity
|> and not make those changes.
|> 
|> Without the article in front of me, I'm afraid to quote it here.
|> Maybe we could have some discussion about a response to it?

(I haven't seen the article either.)

I would not be upset to see woodwinds in Drum Corps. In fact, I can't 
really see why anyone would be against it, except that "it's never been 
done before." Keep it's identity? What *is* the identity of Drum Corps, 
anyway? It certainly isn't the same as it's identity in the 70's.  Or 
the 60's or the 30's. Why should drum corps maintain it's "identity" as 
we define it today?

I guess some people would like to maintain some sort of artificial 
difference between Corps and marching bands, but I think that's sort of 
silly. There really isn't that much difference now, is there? I mean, 
maybe the competitive rules are a little different, but besides the 
instrumentation, what's left? "Attitude?" I don't think so.

Electronic instruments might be different; I might not like to see a 
guy in the pit with a bunch of synths and drum machines and a stack of 
speakers. Maybe the line could be drawn at amplification vs. not?

Aaron

=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
Aaron Oppenheimer                                Medical Products Group
Hewlett Packard Co.                                         Waltham, MA
=-=-=-=-=-=  I can hardly speak for myself, much less HP. =-=-=-=-=-=-=
Newsgroups: rec.arts.marching.drumcorps
From: tmv@cupid.cc.bellcore.com (vandewater,thomas m)
Subject: Re: Top 17
Organization: Bellcore, Livingston, NJ
Date: Mon, 25 Jan 93 17:38:19 GMT

In article <1jsg9dINN7nv@usenet.INS.CWRU.Edu>, cf123@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Christopher Leigh Putnam) writes:
> 
> 1. Star
> 2. Devils (I still can't figure out why you guys are putting them in any
>            spot lower than 5th.  It's been 18 years since they've been
>            there)

Well Chris, I can't understand why you put the Devils in the top 3...it's
been 5 years since they have been there!!!

Tom
---
From: cf123@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Christopher Leigh Putnam)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.marching.drumcorps
Subject: Acadimie Musical news
Date: 23 Jan 1993 22:59:25 GMT
Organization: Case Western Reserve University, Cleveland, OH (USA)
Reply-To: cf123@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Christopher Leigh Putnam)
NNTP-Posting-Host: hela.ins.cwru.edu


Someone was asking if we knew anything about Acadimie Musical this year.  I
have NO idea why anyone would place them in the top 17, ahead of Southwind
or the Troopers or anyone else, but I do know that Bobby Hullett is writing
their drill.  I heard this from Bobby at the last Star camp.  He has been
Star's drum major the last two years and is on Star's visual staff this
year.  He is also the best conductor I have EVER seen.
-- 
Chris Putnam (still a Blue Devils lover at heart)
Euphonium/Baritone
Star in '93?????
Go Devils Winterguard!!!!!
Organization: Penn State University
Date: Wed, 27 Jan 1993 17:15:57 EST
From: <DRK108@psuvm.psu.edu>
Newsgroups: rec.arts.marching.drumcorps
Subject: Woodwinds and High Schools

The one thing that impresses me the most about DCI is the way that music from a
ll styles, and time periods are performed by a corps. If it means playing to th
e back side of the stadium, or standing at the side line trying to blow the cro
wds head off or using any number of thing that you pick up from along side the
road on your way to the show in the pit, corps have found a way to get the soun
d they want from within the rules laid down by DCI. What greater form of creati
vity is there. If corps could have used electronic instruments in the pits, thi
nk of what SCV's show in '91 would have been like. Not very interesting to me.
It was impressive what was done with the percussion section throughout the show
. I know there are alot of other examples out there, but I don't have all day.
     I see no way that DCI and marching bands can be comparedso why even try.

*************************************************************************
David Kutz
15 Maple Rd.                The Opinions Expressed Are Not Those Of
Mertztown, Pa. 19539        Penn State University, Only One Student.
*************************************************************************
Newsgroups: rec.arts.marching.drumcorps
From: AMR@ECLX.PSU.EDU (Adam M Ray)
Subject: Woodwinds
Organization: Penn State Engineering Computer Lab
Distribution: usa
Date: Tue, 26 Jan 93 00:13:37 GMT
X-News-Reader: VMS NEWS 1.24

   As a woodwind player I just wanted to comment on the statement about
improving woodwind wear and tear.  The reason that woodwinds do not go
out in the rain usually is that as a result of the rain, the pads get
wet.  Then when the pads dry out, they crack and need to be replaced.
This is not a difficult thing to fix, however if you are fixing 20
woodwind instruments every day at can run up a small expense, not
to mention be time consuming.

adam ray     ray@crayola.cs.psu.edu
             AMR@eclx.psu.edu

Newsgroups: rec.arts.marching.drumcorps
From: jwise@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (Jeff Wise)
Subject: bootleg tapes etc.
Summary: Suncoast 85  WOW!
Organization: The Ohio State University
Date: Mon, 25 Jan 1993 17:44:27 GMT

      In partial reply to these "unconventional" tapes floating around, let me 
add that my brother and I purchased Suncoast's 1985 pre-season tape at the US 
Open (great show that year) which was my 2nd drum corps show, and that tape 
really was the convincing factor that brought me into the world of DCI.  So to 
Mr. Berry, I owe some thanks, and to your corps that year also.  Anyhow, I've 
still got that tape, and it's incredibly cool, I highly recommend it for anyone
85 Suncoast fans.

     I'd love to offer some Bluecoats tapes, especially judges but, they keep 
getting lost.  The only real good one we have, is from Des Plaines 88, where 
the brass judge upstairs went nuts on the Take 5 horn re-entry.  THe 
interesting part about the tape is after our show finished, the judge commented
that everything was looking great for us, and the only thing we had to worry 
about was burnout.  What a prophetic tape!  I imagine there's a ton of great 
judges tape stories out there............

     One more time, if anyone knows the order of guard placements from last 
year, I'd be interested in seeing the results.
From: johnh@prism.CS.ORST.EDU (Mr. John E. Holeman)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.marching.drumcorps
Subject: Re: Woodwinds (was Re: Cadets cymbal line)
Date: 26 Jan 93 12:14:08 GMT
Article-I.D.: flop.1k39ugINN7dq
Distribution: usa
Organization: Oregon State University, Computer Science Dept.
NNTP-Posting-Host: prism.cs.orst.edu

I would like to add my opinion to this as an intersted by-stander.  I have 
read many of the opinions both favoring ww's in DBC's and those against.  
Now, I haven't marched in years(HS marching band), but my two sisters march
in a summer youth band(the Salem Argonauts)...I saw them at a Concord show
last summer(I was living near there at the time)...now the Argonauts marched
and played at least as well as the Corps, if not, better.  BUT, the two
are totally different concepts.  The Corps depend upon the brass, and the 
music must ultimately reflect this.  The bands may have a little more 
flexibility, but will never have that "brass choir" sound too it.  I must say
that at the show I attended, I was impressed by the Argos(the other bands 
didn't compare...sorry, home-town pride), but I was blown away by the 
Corps.  Keep woodwinds where they belong...in bands.
John
Newsgroups: rec.arts.marching.drumcorps
Subject: Re: Woodwinds (was Re: Cadets cymbal line)
From: <DRK108@psuvm.psu.edu>
Date: Mon, 25 Jan 1993 17:48:35 EST
Distribution: usa
Organization: Penn State University

I could not imagine woodwinds in a DRUM AND BUGLE corps. If you were to place
woodwinds on the field I feel you would loose the power of the corps. Also mayb
e it is because I am only a spectator and not a GE judge but I think that havin
g all instruments on the field look the same would increase the look of uniform
ity through out the corps. I feel that woodwinds do not have the look or power
for use in a drum corps.

*************************************************************************
David Kutz
15 Maple Rd.                The Opinions Expressed Are Not Those Of
Mertztown, Pa. 19539        Penn State University, Only One Student.
*************************************************************************
Newsgroups: rec.arts.marching.drumcorps
From: scottm@helena.stat.uga.edu (scott mclure)
Subject: Re: New poll: Favorite all-time drum solo?
Organization: UGA Statistics Department
Date: Sat, 23 Jan 1993 18:13:42 GMT

Best drum solos?  Hmmmm, lemme see.  These are mine.

	1986 Blue Devils	Channel One Suite
				No pit used.  Brave and bold and
				  lotsa balls.

	1980 Spirit of Atlanta	Devils Went Down To Georgia
				Power, technique, a killer song,
				  and one tight drum line.

	1980-82 Bridgemen	Several numbers.
				One word:  Attitude.  They didn't care
				  about anyone but themselves, and it
				  showed.

	1985 Blue Devils	Karnevil Nine?
				Great mood, great precision, great
				  drum line.

	1989 Santa Clara	various songs from "Phantom"
				Beautiful interpretation of music that's
				  hard to arrange for field percussion.
				  And lest we forget, they won the title
				  away from Phantom with drums.

	That's mine, and I don't claim to be an expert on percussion,
just what I like to hear.

Scott McLure
From: gt1293c@prism.gatech.EDU (W. Scott Radeker, IV)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.marching.drumcorps
Subject: MY 1993 Predictions
Date: 24 Jan 93 14:29:49 GMT
Organization: Hog's Breath is Better than No Breath at All.

1.   Blue Devils
2.   Cadets
3.   Cavaliers
4.   Phantom
5.   Star
6.   Crossmen
7.   Scouts
8.   Santa Clara
9.   Blue Knights
10.  VK
11.  Bluecoats
12.  Glassmen
13.  Spirit
14.  Freelancers
15.  Boston
16.  Troopers
17.  Sky Riders

Scott
-- 
W. Scott Radeker, IV
216 Valley Green
Mauldin, SC  29662
Internet:    gt1293c@cad.gatech.edu
From: fath@mbcrr.dfci.harvard.edu (Michael Fath)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.marching.drumcorps
Subject: Winning Semis but not Finals
Date: 26 Jan 1993 19:59:37 GMT
Organization: Dana-Farber Cancer Institute
NNTP-Posting-Host: mbcrr.harvard.edu

In article <1993Jan25.173652.11330@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu> jwise@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (Jeff Wise) writes:
>
>Which brings 
>me to one my brother proposed, name a corps, if you can, that won Semis and 
>failed to win the big show.  We can't think of one instance.  Therefore, we 
>wonder if there is something to that, at least psychologically maybe.  

Two examples I can think of off hand.

1972 - Blue Stars won Semis, Anaheim Kingsmen won Finals
1983 - SCV won Semis, BD and Garfield teid for second 
       of course, Garfield won finals
-- 
MM   MM FFFFF 	Michael J. Fath		
M M M M F	Dept of Microbiology and Molecular Genetics
M  M  M FFF     Harvard Medical School         
M     M F       Boston, MA 02115	            fath@mbcrr.harvard.edu
Newsgroups: rec.arts.marching.drumcorps
From: rwberry@hubcap.clemson.edu (Robert W Berry)
Subject: Re: Woodwinds (was Re: Cadets cymbal line)
Organization: Clemson University
Distribution: usa
Date: Tue, 26 Jan 1993 07:03:46 GMT

kab33254@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (Hard Harry ) writes:

>Sure, clarinets and piccs are kinda
>weak, but saxes can really back up mellophones
>and are certainly played with greater intonation.

IMHO, this is truly debatable....

It would take some doing to have better intonation than some of the
better mellophone lines out there.

>With a decent mouthpiece saxes can play at
>a volume that could add to almost any hornline.

But what about timbre?  Do we *really* want a sax sound mixed in with
all that glorious brass?

Personally, I think drum corps has gotten close enough to marching band
with the 3-valve horns.

(BTW, unless the rules have changed since 1986 some very non-traditional
instuments *are* legal.  Pianos and autoharps come to mind -- since
they are sort-of percussion instruments.  Really opens up possibilities
for Rhapsody in Blue don't it?)

Later,
Bob

-- 
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
-=- Bob Berry -=- Net-Guru's Inc.        ! rwberry@hubcap.clemson.edu   -=-
-=- Teach them quick, before they think. ! 803-654-7623 || 803-656-1076 -=-
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
From: b-spachman@nwu.edu (Brad Spachman)
Subject: Re: Marching Bands vs. Corps
Followup-To: rec.arts.marching.drumcorps
Organization: Northwestern University
Date: Thu, 28 Jan 1993 04:43:25 GMT

In article <1k79teINNi3m@usenet.INS.CWRU.Edu>, cf123@cleveland.Freenet.Edu
(Christopher Leigh Putnam) wrote:
>

(stuff about corps better than college bands deleted)

> Crowd?  Coming from a wanna be Star member, who cares what the crowd
> thinks?  Corps would dominate, and I'd like to see it.

And what about corps-style high school bands...?

Many of them have comparable sizes, drill complexities, and music
selections (for example: Marion Catholic [IL], Centerville [OH], Plymouth
[MI], Lake Park [IL])


How about it?


Brad (ex-LP Lancer and minor corps follower)
b-spachman@nwu.edu
"More red...more blue...more beer!"--George
Newsgroups: rec.arts.marching.drumcorps
From: jwise@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (Jeff Wise)
Subject: WoodWinds, WOODWINDS??
Organization: The Ohio State University
Date: Wed, 27 Jan 1993 17:33:10 GMT

     As everyone else seems to be getting their word in, allow me if you will, 
mine.  WOODWINDS??  I believe it was said here already, the activity is called:

               Drum and Bugle Corps.


     Lastly for this subject, while it probably sounds incredibly biased and 
bigoted, anytime I've gone to band competitions in the last few years, 
including BOA, hearing woodwind features about kill me, I guess it's just an 
inherent thing.

     OH yeah, I had a professor tell us once that creativity is based on 
limitation.  HMMMMMmmmmm...

Jeff Wise
Bluecoats 86.88-92
Newsgroups: rec.arts.marching.drumcorps
Subject: Re: Woodwins - bands vs corps
From: <DER107@psuvm.psu.edu>
Date: Wed, 27 Jan 1993 21:26:32 EST
Organization: Penn State University

In article <1993Jan27.052212.24169@hubcap.clemson.edu>,
rwberry@hubcap.clemson.edu (Robert W Berry) says:
>

(Stuff about bands v. corps deleted)

>I think it would also be interesting to pit the DCA corps against the
>DCI corps some day.  (I know this has happened a couple of times in DCM
>since there are so few senior corps in the Midwest.)
>

To see the true spectacle of Senior Corps and Junior Corps on the same
field, attend the Hershey (PA) Spectacular some year. That's right: six
junior corps, six senior corps, and a few "exhibition" groups all rolled
into one show that usually lasts longer than DCI finals. It's worth it,
but only because you can see the Cadets, Star and the Crossmen on the same
field in early July.

Fortunately, the two classes are judged by separate rules, but every year
I usually hear some (drunken) senior corps members bragging how they beat
the Bluecoats in drums or some such thing.

For many of the reasons pointed out in the bands v. corps thread, the Senior
Corps cannot hope to compete with the Juniors (i.e. less rehearsal time,
less ability to draw really talented players, lower skill of staff, etc.).
I marched Senior Corps one year, and I know it can be fun, but it's annoying
to watch groups who can't march and play at the same time, or whose drum
majors rip their shirts off in the middle of the show, or whose brass lines
tune less often in the course of a season than a junior corps does in a day.

Perhaps 15 years ago DCA could compare with DCI, but when you watch the two
side by side it is obvious that most DCA corps look awful next to the
Troopers, let alone the Star of Indiana. After you have watched six
utterly predictable shows written at a low level of difficulty, it's easy
to see why many corps/staff members in DCI worry about stifling the activity
in the name of tradition.

All IMHO, of course.

Doug Rank
1991 Cadets of Bergen County
1990 Reading Buccaneers
From: michaelw@cco.caltech.edu (Michael Wong)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.marching.drumcorps
Subject: Re: Pat Metheny on Prodigy!
Date: 21 Jan 1993 17:59:51 GMT
Organization: California Institute of Technology, Pasadena
NNTP-Posting-Host: punisher.caltech.edu

In rec.arts.marching.drumcorps you write:

>In article <1jkg5lINNarh@master.cs.rose-hulman.edu> monroesa@NeXTwork.Rose-Hulm
an.Edu (Scott A Monroe) writes:


>>I also remember a year being hosted by Maynard Ferguson in the same era as
>>the Mangione (sp?) broadcast.  Bringing in "Professional" musicians tended
>>to bring new opinions a views to the broadcast and I feel that it added
>>flavor.  I would love to see Wynton Marsalis co-host finals!
>                              ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
        You know, will the general public recognize a musician host as easily
as they do Gowdy?  I agree that Gowdy is quite the drum corps novice but in
the public eye, his presence gives the finals legitimacy, I think.

>Good one. I think someone else suggested Ed McMahon? He used to march, yes?
>While we're talking tonight show, how about Doc Severenson?

>--Brad.

        Speaking about Doc, does anyone out there have an extensive collection
of his work on CD's?  I am looking for this one particular CD that came out
a few years ago but now I cannot find it anywhere.  I am willing to purchase.
If anyone emails me, I will have remembered what his CD was called.  Thanks.


-- 
*******************************************************************************
* Michaelw@cco.caltech.edu      * "All work and no play makes John a Techer." *
* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *     California Institute of Technology      *
*    '89 baritone, '90,'91,'93 contrabass,  Mandarins Drum and Bugle Corps    *
Xref: sparky rec.arts.marching.drumcorps:386 alt.drumcorps:2744
From: byork@desire.wright.edu
Newsgroups: rec.arts.marching.drumcorps
Subject: Re: As I'm wiping this egg off...
Date: 26 Jan 93 20:04:47 EST
Followup-To: predictions
Organization:  Wright State University 

> (rather right next to us, it's hard to pick up what you're standing on).  The 
> fact BD has been top 5 forever, and all those wonderful things.  Which brings 
> me to one my brother proposed, name a corps, if you can, that won Semis and 
> failed to win the big show.  We can't think of one instance.  Therefore, we 
> wonder if there is something to that, at least psychologically maybe.  Of note,
> my brother is hugely cynically about the process of judging, meaning the 
> objectivity of it.  His favorite example is DCI Midwest at Whitewater in 1989,
> the Cavaliers horn line was up a full point over BD in performance.  My 
> reaction to this would be I've yet to hear a Cavalier horn line at any time 
> that's a point above BD in performance.   HMMmmm...
> 
> Lastly, for this post, I'm trying to find out the order of placements for the 
> guards for 1992.  I know like the top 3 and 11th, can anyone help me here?
> 
> 
> Jeff Wise
     I beleive that GC and SCV tied for first place in 1985 semis. SCV was not
able to repeat in finals to win both nights.
                  Byork