HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: anon-1169@twwells.com
Subject: "except at night"
Organization: Anonymous Posting Service at twwells.com
Date: Tue, 28 Jul 1992 06:43:33 GMT

So many memories.
I've been reading this group.  It is my first attempt at a posting.
So many memories brought flooding to my head.  People like me.
I've never met a person like me and known it.  I've spent so many
years willing myself to forget, isn't it the only way to dismiss the
guilt?  I have not forgotten, but I seldom think of it.  Sometimes
I think of talking about it, I've heard that is sposed to be good
for you.  The only thing that makes me feel bad about my silence
is I think it needs to be known how so many of us are/were treated.
I wonder how many of us are as silent as I am.  I wonder if I
really am missing more than I think.  I think I'm recovered.  It
has been a lot of years.  I just think often about those children
who are going through it now, how they don't know any better and
how bad adults can be to them.  The thought of child molesters, it
just makes my skin curl, I have compassion for almost every other
category of human beings, but none at all for them.



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Newsgroups: alt.sexual.abuse.recovery
From: anon-1159@twwells.com (Kristian)
Subject: Thanks, Cloister
Organization: Anonymous Posting Service at twwells.com
X-Email-Accepted: yes
Date: Wed, 29 Jul 1992 21:14:25 GMT

Thanks for  your  comments.    I  appreciate the POV.  You may be
right.  I  know  that  I  feel very sick in the pit of my stomach
when I think of  telling him that incest was part of my abuse.  I
can barely say that word  to  myself yet;  so, I am obviously not
ready to make THAT disclosure.

Oddly enough, after determining that incest WAS indeed part of my
abusive past, I went through extreme anxiety  that I was going to
be hit by the Mother Of All Guilt  Trips  when the realization of
what I was thinking (what I had SAID ALOUD to  my  counsellor  and  the
group)  sunk  home.   This because years ago I had  "put  on  the
shelf" any old  disappointments and resentments about my parents'
relationship with and raising  of  me.  ("They didn't always meet
my needs, but we're very  different  and  they  sacrificed -- and
made sure I KNEW it --  to  give  me  the  'best  life  possible'
according to their lights!" was the refrain  I  played  to myself
back  then).    Anyway  the  anticipated  Guilt  Trip    has  not
materialized in any form and I am presently using  this lack as a
kind  of confirmation of the real memories I have of  the  incest
element of my abuse.

Thanks for you help!

"Kristian"




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Newsgroups: alt.sexual.abuse.recovery
From: bu850@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Karla M. Alwan)
Subject: Re: "except at night"
Reply-To: bu850@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Karla M. Alwan)
Organization: Case Western Reserve University, Cleveland, OH (USA)
Date: Tue, 28 Jul 92 23:46:29 GMT


In a previous article, erc@unislc.uucp (Ed Carp) says:

>bu850@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Karla M. Alwan) writes:
>
>: >Perhaps an approach that might work is the one taken by MADD.
>: 
>: what exactly is that aproach... I am not all that familiar with
>: it.
>
>MADD organized on a national, then a local, level.  They recruited
>local organizers to form groups locally.  Idea took off like wildfire.
>They've got stuff like contracts between teens and parents, etc.
>
>Whaddya think?

Pretty neat.  Seems backwards to me though.  My first intution 
would be to start at a local level and work up.  Seems
like it would be harder to make a national organization fly...

>-- 
>Ed Carp, N7EKG		erc@apple.com	<-- preferred email address!
>
>801/      "This is the final task I will ever give you, and  it  goes
>269-      on  forever.   Act  happy,  feel happy, be happy, without a
>

-- 
|alwan573@pirates.armstrong.edu   <=== USE THIS ONE!          
|Karla.Alwan@lambada.oit.unc.edu             |
|ng548@dsom_op.pnl.gov                       |
|bu850@cwns16.ins.cwru.edu                   |
Newsgroups: alt.sexual.abuse.recovery
From: anon-1158@twwells.com (Doug)
Subject: RE: Looking
Organization: Anonymous Posting Service at twwells.com
X-Email-Accepted: yes
Date: Sat, 25 Jul 1992 00:15:24 GMT


There are quite a few Survivors of Incest Anonymous groups in the Bay
Area, and there is a number you can call which will give you meeting
times in your area.  Alas, I don't have it with me at the moment.
However, there is a good chance that Mandana House (in Oakland) could
refer you to the correct number.  If nothing turns up sooner, I'll
post the number when I dig it up.

Doug



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From: Bede_Jarrow@hikssrv.lib.purdue.edu (Lisa)
Newsgroups: alt.sexual.abuse.recovery
Subject: automatic pilot
Date: 30 Jul 92 19:51:40 GMT
Reply-To: Bede_Jarrow@hikssrv.lib.purdue.edu (Lisa)

Right now I feel that I'm on automatic pilot--I'm not taking too much in. 
Which is a good thing, I suppose, because right now I'm being bombarded with
weird satuff.  Take the past two days:

Tues:  I see my most recent former SO (#4) in the comptuer lab.  I just go in,
do my work, ignore him.  He ignores me also.  But it is unsettling to see him. 
He had harassed me earlier this year.

Wed.:  See #4 again.  He is so agitated by my presence that he leaves.  This is
his issue and I refuse to own it!  Got a letter from third former SO (#3); he
asked to resume our rel. which he had broken off 2 1/2 years ago; I politely
but firmly wrote back that I considered it over and had no wish to start again.
 Earlier that day, I saw my therapist for the last time.  She said she didn't
think we could continue working together even if I wasn't leaving; she said
it's ok to hold onto illusions but not in therapy; and from her comments
(saying that she wanted people to go fast and make progress) it sounds that she
had an agenda that wasn't mine.  Also, she felt angry at me and I at her;
sounds to me she thought I was difficult to work with and she said her approach
worked with 95% of clients and I was in the 5% it didn't work with; now
thinking about it I can see that this is her pushing, not my problem.  I told
her from the beginning that I didn't want to delve too much in the past or
change; I wanted support in dealing with issues now.  So I did not feel that I
misrepresented myself.

My attitude this week has basically been:  "If you (Shari, therapist, whoever)
don't like what I'm doing; tough shit; there are lots of others who do.  I have
so many friends who are taking me out this week for a last goodbye, I must be
doing something right."

That's where I am right now.  I plan to check my e-mail again tomorrow, but
that may be for the last time.

Lisa
From: tdelaney@penn.Gwinnett.COM (ted delaney)
Newsgroups: alt.sexual.abuse.recovery
Subject: odd question
Date: 23 Jul 92 23:13:48 GMT

here's one for my fellow "people people" (as my young alter calls MPD)

recently had a 'flame' on another system, on another echo far away....

someone got pissed at me, and has accused not ME specifically but someone in my
town (not hard to decipher as there are only a few from my town on this
echo/area) of being/having MPD.....whew. damn. crap. phooey.

not sure how to handle it...deny it? nope, its true....I wish there was not this
stigma attached to this disorder (wish folks would focus on the ABUSE! and ways
to stopping it!).....I think of it as a side effect of something HORRIBLE, in-
stead the media has warped it to make folks thing we are something to be feared
(the ABUSERS need to be feared! (and dealt with)

should I just let this lie? am I being paranoid? this person seems the type of
scum to keep at it (e-mail folks I am talking to etc...) oh, yes, I HAVE sent a
msg to the moderator too.....

or am I over reacting/being paranoid?

thanks
Ted
Newsgroups: alt.sexual.abuse.recovery
From: thawley@indetech.com (Todd Hawley)
Newsgroups: alt.sexual.abuse.recovery
Subject: NOT a good time
Date: 22 Jul 92 23:18:04 GMT
Organization: Independence Technologies, Inc. Fremont, CA

I've struggled a couple times to write this. I've mentioned before about
the abuse I suffered growing up at the hands of a verbally abusive mom &
how w her brother dying recently, I wondered what might happen to her.
Well, about a wk ago, she suffered a massive stroke & is not doing real
well right now. (God, talk about intuition). This isn't something I ever
wanted to deal w obviously (who does), but it means having to deal w 
family members I don't care for, who never wanted to talk about my abusive
parents. I'm also struggling to deal w my emotions; I really have to come
to some kind of healing w her.

Thank God (or Goddess, depending on your persuasion) I was able to talk
w someone last nite about this; otherwise I'd be total jello rite now.
But yet part of me doesn't want to forgive her for the smothering I endured
as a kid; or for the abuse. It's as if I forgive her then I'd be forgetting
all the anger & the shame & I'd be doomed to repeat it. I feel like if I
let my defenses down, it'd be open season on me again. This is what
continually happened to me growing up, so I've preconditioned myself not
to let it happen again.

I'm not sure about how I feel about her having the stroke, what the end
result of this might be, but then again I've learned over the yrs to "numb
out" when something traumatic like this happens to me. I did it to a
certain extent when my dad died when I was a kid. I guess one of the
reasons I'm writing this is to get some other folks' ideas about this.
What did you do when this happened to you, that sort of thing. I'm going
to see her this wkend; she's in a hospital in St. Helena, which is about
2 hrs north of here. E-mail is fine, if you want to save bandwidth :).
Also I could use some e-hugs. 

Thanks,
-th
Newsgroups: alt.sexual.abuse.recovery
From: erc@unislc.uucp (Ed Carp)
Subject: Re: "except at night"
X-Newsreader: Tin 1.1 PL4
Organization: Unisys Corporation SLC
Date: Tue, 28 Jul 1992 17:28:54 GMT

bu850@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Karla M. Alwan) writes:

: This is something I think about all the time.  Every time
: I read a new story about what happend to someone, it plays
: over and over again in my head.  I can't get it out of my
: head.  It makes me really sick most of the time.  But I think
: the only thing I can do is make some sort of controbution against
: child abuse.  Wake the whole country up to it.  get people to
: realize, that yes, it is possible that billy bob next door
: is raping his 2 year old daughter.   People are so blind to
: it all.
: 
: But, I am young...   I intend to make some kind of significant
: against this all, before I am 30 or so.  That is really important 
: to me.  It is going to be a big part of my healing.  I mean
: how can I stand back and let it go on?  I mean, I have an
: advantage:  I am young and recovering...  I feel it is
: my duty to take advantage of that and pass it on.
: 
: anyone care to join me?   Any ideas on how to start making
: at least small controbutions?

Perhaps an approach that might work is the one taken by MADD.
-- 
Ed Carp, N7EKG		erc@apple.com	<-- preferred email address!
"In wildness is the preservation of the world."  - Henry David Thoreau
** Member, Linux port team - uucp division ** :)   801/269-8125
Newsgroups: alt.sexual.abuse.recovery
From: cloister@milton.u.washington.edu (cloister bell)
Subject: Re: Thanks, Cloister
Organization: University of Washington
Date: Thu, 30 Jul 1992 16:13:09 GMT

anon-1159@twwells.com (Kristian) writes:

>Thanks for  your  comments.    I  appreciate the POV.  You may be
>right.  I  know  that  I  feel very sick in the pit of my stomach
>when I think of  telling him that incest was part of my abuse.  I
>can barely say that word  to  myself yet;  so, I am obviously not
>ready to make THAT disclosure.

yes, i know what you mean.  even about normal, day-to-day things in life, i
have real difficulty bringing up potentially unpleasant subjects with anybody.
i always come up with some reason why right now isn't quite appropriate to
mention it.  but, i'm slowly getting better at it, because i've found that it's
almost never as bad as i imagine it will be.  of course, talking about incest
is a far cry from telling your roomate that you think they're hogging too much
shelf space in the kitchen.  expect that telling him will be hard.  expect him
to be upset, and possibly angry.  but he will probably be upset over what
happened to you, not at you.  and he will probably be angry at your perps, not
at you.  it won't be easy, so take your time, and make sure you're ready to
tell him before you do.  and think positive!  imho, the likelyhood is that the
two of you will come out stronger and closer to eachother than before.

>Thanks for you help!

anytime.  it's my pleasure to help.  and thank you for letting me know i've
helped.  it puts a good start on my day.
-- 
+-------------------------------------------------+---------------------------+
|tactical nuclear sdi stealth nsafood signature.  | cloister@u.washington.edu |
+-------------------------------------------------+---------------------------+
Newsgroups: alt.sexual.abuse.recovery
From: kara@BORN.phys.virginia.edu (Kara Jayne Keeter)
Subject: Re: NOT a good time
Reply-To: kara@BORN.phys.virginia.edu (Kara Jayne Keeter)
Organization: Dept. of Physics, University of Virginia
Date: Thu, 23 Jul 1992 03:59:34 GMT

In article <1992Jul22.231804.29675@indetech.com>, thawley@indetech.com (Todd Hawley) writes:

[stuff deleted about abusive mom who is now in the hospital]
>But yet part of me doesn't want to forgive her for the smothering I endured
>as a kid; or for the abuse. It's as if I forgive her then I'd be forgetting
>all the anger & the shame & I'd be doomed to repeat it. I feel like if I
>let my defenses down, it'd be open season on me again. This is what
>continually happened to me growing up, so I've preconditioned myself not
>to let it happen again.

Hi Todd,

This may be way off base, and if so, please ignore.  But I would say that
whether or not you forgive her depends on what you feel is right for you,
and certainly I would urge you to not do anything (like forgive) if it
will make you feel unsafe.  It is understandable that you might want to 
"take care of unfinished business" before it's too late.  But does this
necessarily mean forgiveness, or does it maybe just mean expressing to her
how you feel, or something like that?

I am *not* advocating any particular action, just bringing up some things
for consideration.  I am saying that you are the best judge of what you
need to do.

>I guess one of the
>reasons I'm writing this is to get some other folks' ideas about this.
>What did you do when this happened to you, that sort of thing. I'm going

Well I can't say what I've done when my perp died, because that has not
happened to me yet.  Since you asked, I'll go ahead and say what I think
I would do in your situation (which of course is pure speculation).  I
think I would very much want to confront my mom, to tell her how I felt
about what she did, to tell her how it has hurt me, and to ask her why
she did it.  I think I would try very hard to not feel guilty about saying
such things to her at such a time, because I think it would be better to
bring it up before it's too late, rather than never find out what she might
have to say.  I would probably feel somewhat guilty, but I'd probably do it
anyway.  And if she asked for forgiveness?  I don't know, maybe I'd lie,
tell her I forgive her... maybe, with the thought that if I ever do forgive
her after she's already gone, then I can go back to that moment and
accept her "apology" and reconciliation...  hmm, I'm making this up as I
go along, I'm not sure if it's making sense, or if it's what I'd really
do, but it seems to make some sort of sense to me.

I'm not really good at offering encouragement, I guess I need practise.
I hope this helps some.  Please disregard anything that doesn't "feel
right" to you.

>Also I could use some e-hugs. 
>
>Thanks,
>-th

*hug*   *hug*   *hug* to you!

Also, good luck in this, and "safe be with you" (kinda like "peace
be with you", only I am wishing you safety instead, which sometimes
to me seems to be a more immediate need).

-Andy   (kk)
From: anon-1012@twwells.com (All Me of Us)
Subject: Re: uprooting a life
Organization: Anonymous Posting Service at twwells.com
X-Email-Accepted: yes
Date: Mon, 27 Jul 1992 22:14:31 GMT

Congratulations on the thesis, Lisa!  I haven't had a chance to
say so yet, but I'm excited for you.  Good luck on your travels
in the next few months.

You ask:
>Has anyone ever been told by a therapist that he/she was angry at you?  
>Mine did this week; it was unsettling.

Yes, sort of.  Two of the therapists I saw earlier this year before
finally finding the one I hope will work out for me said similar
things.  One kept telling me how he felt invalidated and helpless
when I didn't accept his suggestions or trust him, as if it was my
job to fix his feelings. When I left him after a couple of months, I
told him it was intolerable to me to hear how he felt about working
with me, and that it was far too early in the process for me to worry
about the effect I was having on him; I felt it was his job to take
those feelings to his *own* therapist, not dump them on me.

Then the next one, the therapist whose words prompted me to start
posting actively in this group, ended up telling me she couldn't
work with me--that she felt criticized every time I didn't accept
whatever she said or suggested to me.  I told her it was *my* process,
and that it wasn't my job to do what she wanted, to make her feel
better.  We tried to work it out, but finally she fired me, which
I posted about extensively at the time.  It still hurts.  I've spoken
briefly to the person who referred me to that therapist; she wants
to know what happened so she can be more informed for future referrals.
I hope to talk to her soon.

I guess that's all.  Here's a hug for you, Lisa, if you can use
it, and extras for whoever else wants one.


All Me of Us 




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Newsgroups: alt.sexual.abuse.recovery
From: bu850@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Karla M. Alwan)
Subject: Re: "except at night"
Reply-To: bu850@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Karla M. Alwan)
Organization: Case Western Reserve University, Cleveland, OH (USA)
Date: Tue, 28 Jul 92 16:33:41 GMT


In a previous article, anon-1169@twwells.com () says:

[lots of good stuff deleted...]

>has been a lot of years.  I just think often about those children
>who are going through it now, how they don't know any better and
>how bad adults can be to them.  The thought of child molesters, it
>just makes my skin curl, I have compassion for almost every other
>category of human beings, but none at all for them.

This is something I think about all the time.  Every time
I read a new story about what happend to someone, it plays
over and over again in my head.  I can't get it out of my
head.  It makes me really sick most of the time.  But I think
the only thing I can do is make some sort of controbution against
child abuse.  Wake the whole country up to it.  get people to
realize, that yes, it is possible that billy bob next door
is raping his 2 year old daughter.   People are so blind to
it all.

But, I am young...   I intend to make some kind of significant
against this all, before I am 30 or so.  That is really important 
to me.  It is going to be a big part of my healing.  I mean
how can I stand back and let it go on?  I mean, I have an
advantage:  I am young and recovering...  I feel it is
my duty to take advantage of that and pass it on.

anyone care to join me?   Any ideas on how to start making
at least small controbutions?



*hugs*  to all that want them...

-Karla


>
>
>
>--
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>

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Newsgroups: alt.sexual.abuse.recovery
From: anon-1055@twwells.com (m&m)
Subject: Re; odd question & Sunday Night..
Organization: Anonymous Posting Service at twwells.com
Date: Thu, 23 Jul 1992 00:04:48 GMT

Ted Delaney asks (paraphrased):
> do all of MPD's go to same heaven or hell ?

Following is strictly my opinion & my own understanding of my spirituality.
I enjoy discussing this kind of stuff but if you want to discuss it with me
please use email.

My spirituality is based on a Christian foundation (non-fundamentalist).
I believe very strongly that Jesus's message was that the "kingdom of God",
aka heaven, is here & now.  That in loving relationships our spiritual wounds
can be healed & we can help in the healing of the wounds of those we are in
relationship with.  Although I also believe that there are some wounds that are 
so grievous they may never be healed.
	As such the question of heaven is of less relevance to me.
	There is an excellent book called 'Getting the Love You Want' (I think)
by Harville Hendriks (non religious as I recall)  that discusses relationships
and their powerful healing properties if used correctly.
	I have a question regarding MPD's and that is if viewing these 
relationships this way & using them as a place for healing is useful ?
Forgive me if I am being insensitive.  I am afraid I know very little about
MPD.
	One of the best allegories I have read of heaven is the book by
CS Lewis called "The Great Divorce".  It really is hillarious but extremely
insightful into the power of fear in us.

By the way I read Sunday night ramblings - a big ehug for any of you who want
and will accept it.  These kinds of stories make me want to go home and just
cradle Greg and cuddle him and let him know how special & loved he is and that
SA & I will do everything in our power to protect him from this awful type
of abuse.  

Fare-Well
m&m

Fare-Well



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