From: orville%weyrich@uunet.uu.net (Orville R. Weyrich)
Subject: Re: Why do Americans get so little vacation time?
Reply-To: uunet.uu.net!weyrich!orville
Organization: Weyrich Computer Consulting
Date: Tue, 6 Oct 92 13:41:28 GMT

In article <1992Oct5.105339.20769@cnplss5.cnps.philips.nl> arjay@cnplss5.cnps.philips.nl (R.J. Kimmel) writes:
>orville%weyrich@uunet.uu.net (Orville R. Weyrich) writes:
>
>>In article <1992Oct2.102544.24569@cnplss5.cnps.philips.nl> arjay@cnplss5.cnps.philips.nl (R.J. Kimmel) writes:
>>>cshaver@informix.com (Craig Shaver) writes:
>>>
>>>>In article <BvFBAK.FB1@world.std.com> ttraub@world.std.com (Terry Traub) writes:
>>>>>[lots of stuff deleted]
>>>>>
>>>>>I think companies should provide family leave, but benefits like this
>>>>>should be voluntary, not forced either through legislation or
>>>>>collective bargaining.  In the long run, far-sighted company
>>>>>management would see that such efforts would benefit the company as
>>>>>well as the employees (obviously true, but management is not noted for
>>>>>its vision).  Forcing companies to comply would simply cause them to
>>>>>supply the very minimum possible benefit and still be within the law.
>>>>>
>>>>>And, young married women might find it a bit harder to find a job.
>>>>>
>>>>>T.T.
>>>
>>>>And single women too.  Well said, well said.  
>>>
>>>Women in general do, and will continue to have a hard time in the
>>>Business marketplace as long as attitudes continue along these lines.
>
>>Exactly what atitude is that? The attitude that women should be treated as
>>interchangeable with men in the workplace, but should be given benefits that 
>>men don't need? Somehow this seems to me to be hypocritical and contradictory.
>
>The attitude that women are not as generically desireable in the workplace
>as men because they may need more benefits (i.e. time off dur to family)
>than men.

So it is beneficial to the employer to have employees that need more benefits?

>Women shouldbe treated as interchangeable with men in the workplace, and
>by the same token men should be treated as interchangeable with women.  A

Can you justify that on any consistent, rational grounds based on physical
reality? Or is it just your dream of what you wish reality was? Or is it just
Politikally Koreckt hogwash? If you have a dream, do you have any plan 
whereby it can be MADE into physical reality?

>Family/Maternity Leave that is of obvious use to a women should also be
>given to a man who may also, though not quite so obviously, need it as well.

If the need isn't so obvious, then probably the need isn't as strong. There
are actually TWO kinds of needs being discussed here:

	1) physical needs
	2) psychological needs

In the area of physical needs, women clearly have significantly greater needs
than men. Believe me, I was able to work right up to the evening of my child's
delivery, and show up at work the next day as well. My wife had a SIGNIFICANTLY
harder time of it. I strongly suspect that the experience of my family unit
is fairly typical.

In the area of psychological needs, there is no reason to expect any difference
between men and women. But psychology is a pretty wishy-washy subject with lots
of different theories that can be used to prove just about any point you might
choose. And anyway, we can't afford it given our present budget and trade
deficits, without eliminating something else. Exactly what other employer-
provided fringe-benefit or government-provided social program do you think is
less important than paid "psychological" leave?

>What is good for the goose is good for the gander in this case.

Cute, but while both geese and ganders both make feather pillows, they are
not interchangeable for all other purposes. 

orville

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Orville R. Weyrich, Jr.                        Weyrich Computer Consulting
Certified Data Processor                     POB 5782, Scottsdale, AZ 85261
Certified Systems Professional                   Voice: (602) 391-0821
Certified Computer Programmer            Internet: orville%weyrich@uunet.uu.net
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Newsgroups: misc.jobs.misc