HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: snichols@adobe.com (Sherri Nichols)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
Subject: Re: simulation games
Date: 17 Aug 92 22:45:58 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: Adobe Systems Incorporated

In article <17AUG199216124689@jhuvms.hcf.jhu.edu> hasch@jhuvms.hcf.jhu.edu (Bruce M Hasch) writes:
>This is really surprising to me--I would expect that there would be closer
>interaction between the two groups (Is the computer game rigidly based on
>the board game or not?)

The computer game was developed completely independently of the board game;
the developer of the computer game, Tom Tippett, wrote this game, then went
looking for a company to sell it.  PtP was the closest board game to his
computer game at the time, so he hooked up with them.  ("Them" has changed
over time; the original inventors of PtP are no longer affiliated with the
company) 

>I'm sorry--I didn't mean to imply that I knew reality any better than 
>anyone else.  I know you see a lot more Pirates games than I do, and if you
>say AVS has lost a step or two in CF, I believe you.  However, I'd still
>think that on a scale of Excellent-Very Good-Average-Fair-Poor, it'd be 
>surprising that AVS had falled to a below average rating...

Van Slyke has been below average in Defensive Average each of the last two
years, so there is some evidence at least that Van Slyke is a below average
centerfielder.  

I'm not sure exactly what Tom is using for the defensive values in the
computer game.  I know he buys his data from Stats, Inc., and I know he
gets the Zone Ratings stuff they do, but I don't know if he just uses that
or not. 

Sherri Nichols
snichols@adobe.com
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
From: jhg8680@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (Jon  Hamkins)
Subject: Re: Eck or the Rocket?
Organization: University of Illinois at Urbana
Distribution: usa
Date: Fri, 21 Aug 1992 15:16:02 GMT

alba@cbnewse.cb.att.com (david.alba..jr) writes:

>      How about adding Jack McDowell from Chicago to
>      the list of CY YOUNG candidates.  Jack has more 
>      victories than Clemens, even though his E.R.A.
>      is a little higher.

Why add McDowell?  Yes, he has *one* more win than Clemens, but that's
it.  Let's look at a line score of one of his wins:

         IP H  R ER BB SO 
McDowell 5  10 6  6  1  3
(from Steven Smith's AL game score report)

He won the game 9-6.  Wow, what great pitching, huh?  There is little
doubt that McDowell is a good pitcher, but the simple fact is that the
Sox average over 6 runs a game when he pitches.  That makes it a *lot*
easier to win.  On the other hand, Clemens almost needs to be flawless
to get a win, with the Boston offense the way it is.  Fortunately for
them, he frequently is.

     ----Jon Hamkins  (hamkins@uiuc.edu)
         University of Illinios
         Urbana, IL
From: griffin@extro.ucc.su.OZ.AU (Sean McGerty)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
Subject: Bosox - Wheelchair ramps at Fenway?
Summary: Bosox - Wheelchair ramps at Fenway
Keywords: wheelchair
Date: 22 Aug 92 23:38:30 GMT
Organization: Sydney University Computing Service, Sydney, NSW, Australia

Not living on the continental USA I beg to ask this question.....
 
        MAJOR LEAGUE BASEBALL STANDINGS FOR THURSDAY, AUGUST 20, 1992
 
AMERICAN EAST
Toronto Blue Jays     70    50    .583    --      5-5    Lost 1  38-21  32-29
Baltimore Orioles     66    54    .550   4.0     z4-6    Lost 4  32-26  34-28
Milwaukee Brewers     64    55    .538   5.5     z5-5     Won 1  37-24  27-31
Detroit Tigers        58    64    .475  13.0     z7-3    Lost 1  28-32  30-32
Boston Red Sox        55    65    .458  15.0      3-7    Lost 1  36-25  19-40
Cleveland Indians     55    65    .458  15.0      6-4     Won 2  32-33  23-32
New York Yankees      55    65    .458  15.0     z5-5     Won 2  29-28  26-37
 
How is it possible that the Bosox have a near 2nd best Home record in their 
division and they are still tying for last?
 
*SOB*
 
DrBob.
 
Australia.
From: paula@koufax.cv.hp.com (Paul Andresen)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
Subject: Re: Looking for list of parks/stadiums/etc
Date: 17 Aug 92 21:59:09 GMT
Article-I.D.: hpcvaac.1992Aug17.215909.6341
Organization: Hewlett-Packard Company, Corvallis, Oregon USA

There is a us map showing all the major and minor league teams. It is 
put out by Geographics By Bevis
	   PO Box 99
	   Jacksonville, AL 36265

Cost is $6.95 + $2.00 p&h.  

Their number is 1-800-292-3847
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
              If you're really hip, the passing years will show.
                                           ......Tower Of Power

  paula@koufax.cv.hp.com   Paul Andresen  Hewlett-Packard  (503)-750-3511

    home: 3006 NW McKinley    Corvallis, OR 97330       (503)-752-8424
                            A SABR member since 1979
From: lkc@hpfcso.FC.HP.COM (Lee Casuto)
Date: Wed, 12 Aug 1992 22:37:10 GMT
Subject: Re: Brewer's In NL West?
Organization: Hewlett-Packard, Fort Collins, CO, USA
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball

In rec.sport.baseball, Ryan Robbins <IO20456@MAINE.MAINE.EDU> writes:

> I don't think either league would go for it. It would be ridiculous
> to switch a team from one league to another. Besides, Major League
> Baseball is almost like the way the US Gov't is set up: the leagues
> are basically states. They're going to keep their own. Such a
> proposal would force each league into something neither would app-
> reciate a whole lot.
> 
> +===============================================================+
> ||   RYAN ROBBINS                    INTERNET:                 ||
> ||   UNIVERSITY OF MAINE             IO20456@MAINE.MAINE.EDU   ||
> +===============================================================+

Oh I don't know... I would put ANYTHING past this commish!

l\
From: Edward_Lunny@mindlink.bc.ca (Edward Lunny)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
Subject: Atlanta Braves win streaks
Date: 15 Aug 92 02:25:34 GMT
Organization: MIND LINK! - British Columbia, Canada
Distribution: world

How come the braves have so many streaks? Is it the pitching or do people just
get hot?
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
From: roger@phoenix.Princeton.EDU (Roger Lustig)
Subject: Re: AL RC/27 Leaders
Originator: news@nimaster
Organization: Princeton University
Date: Wed, 12 Aug 1992 18:45:57 GMT

In article <1992Aug12.174719.26615@leland.Stanford.EDU> 
claudius@leland.Stanford.EDU (Nelson Lu) writes:
>In article <23512@oasys.dt.navy.mil> 
hambric@oasys.dt.navy.mil (Stephen Hambric) writes:

>>Question:  Have you attempted to somehow sum these RC/27 stats for all
>>the members of a team and compare the result to the actual runs scored
>>by the team as a sanity check?  I have a hard time believing that some
>>of the guys on this list are more valuable offensively than others (John
>>Olerud better than Big Cecil?), probably because I still cling tenaciously
>>to RBI as a worthwhile stat.

>I personally have not, but I believe Bill James' conclusion was that there
>is usually a maximum of a 5% difference.  I believe David Tate has posted
>something to this effect as well.

There are a few datasets out there that will allow you to do this.  What
you need is *complete* batting info for the team, i.e., all the
components for RC, plus runs.  You also need pitcher stats if you wish
to do NL teams.  

What you want to sum is RC, not RC/27.  The easiest way to check is with
the 1986 Bill James Abstract, which gives complete hitting records plus
the RC and RC/27 stats.  Also raw outs, etc.  I just added up Toronto,
and got 781 RC, 759 R.  That's a shade under 3% error.  Anyone who
wishes to do this, and then to compare sum(rc) to team rc, is entirely
welcome...8-)  the answers will not be identical because RC (like James'
model of offense) is not linear.

>>***** Once again, this is not intended to be a flame *****

PS: check out Fielder and Olerud's RBI opportunities.  Then look at
their SLG.  SLG correlates so well with RBI/Opp. that it may even
loosen yur grip on rbi!  8-)
Roger
From: Tanya_Davis.esh@qmail.slac.stanford.edu (Tanya Davis)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
Subject: Re: Say it's so! Baseball in Tampa Bay!!!
Date: 12 Aug 92 20:49:48 GMT
Followup-To: rec.sport.baseball
Organization: SLAC


Russ--

Maybe you'd want to reread my posting -- I didn't say that the Giants don't
have clubhouse problems -- on the contrary, I said that they do have some
individual problems (and what I had in mind was the Will Clark issue.  I
know what some of the players think of him....and I know it's not good.  I
even heard one player say that, in a way, he wished that he could trade
Clark for  someone (he didn't have anyone in mind -- it was wishful
thinking) who had everything Clark has as a player but minus his
off-the-field personality.  But, as far as I know, ever since Chris Brown's
leave, Clark is the only one that seems to have any controversy -- whereas
the A's have several.  And, as I said before, they have an overall attitude
(which Brett mentioned in a posting) that they almost flaunt.   

> 
- Tanya_Davis.esh@qmail.slac.stanford.edu
  
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
From: claudius@leland.Stanford.EDU (Nelson Lu)
Subject: Re: Astacio Shuts Out Mets for Dodger Win
Organization: DSG, Stanford University, CA 94305, USA
Date: Wed, 19 Aug 92 19:20:45 GMT

In article <1992Aug19.090816.2558@news.stolaf.edu> alvstad@mari.acc-admin.stolaf.edu (Joel D Alvstad) writes:

>Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't Reggie Sanders of the ever slumping Reds a
>rookie as well??  I don't know how he has done as of late, though.

You are right; I just forgot him for the moment.  He is definitely eligible,
since he has had only 40 major league PAs entering this season.  So, he is
actually the favorite, I'd say.

===============================================================================
GO CALIFORNIA ANGELS!
===============================================================================
Nelson Lu (claudius@leland.stanford.edu)
From: wrl@pmafire.inel.gov (William Lechner)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
Subject: Wanted: APBA Baseball Computer Game
Date: 12 Aug 92 02:07:43 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: WINCO

I am interested in buying someones v1.5 APBA Computer Baseball game.  Anyone
want to sell it?  I am also interested in buying team disks and other
modules.

Thanks.

Bill Lechner
wrl@pmafire.inel.gov
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
From: kprashan@sdcc3.ucsd.edu (hyderabadi)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
Subject: Re: Padre roster for mock expansion draft
Date: 21 Aug 92 01:05:57 GMT

In article <37083@sdcc12.ucsd.edu>, demers@cs.ucsd.edu (David DeMers) writes:
> 
> Here is my list of 15 Padres to protect from the expansion draft.  
> I did not get any comments after posting the previous version; however,
> I found out Fernandez' status as a FA.


I thought the Padres could pick up the option on Fernandez's
contract. Or doesn't the expansion allow you to protect such
free-agents?


> Initial protection list (15):
> ----------------------------
> Gwynn 			10 & 5
> Hurst 			no-trade contract
> McGriff
> Sheffield
> Benes
> Seminara
> Darrin Jackson
> Dan Walters
> Greg Harris		though with his injury history...
> ---------------
> Darrell Sherman		great hitting OF
> Tim Scott		(reputed to be the closer of the future...)
> Guillermo Velasquez	good hitting 1B/OF
> Lance Painter		top pitching prospect
> Tim Worrell		top pitching prospect
> Dave Staton		big slugging 1B/OF/DH(!), though just underwent 
> 			rotator cuff surgery, so maybe could be risked.
> ---------------
> ...
> Dave DeMers			 ddemers@UCSD   demers@cs.ucsd.edu

Hard to disagree with this list. Although I may want to see if they
can trade Staton [who is unlikely to make the team as long as
McGriff is there] so that they can protect somebody else.





__________________________________________________________
| Prashanth                    |                         |
| U. of California @ San Diego | prash@bhaskara.ucsd.edu |
##########################################################
From: spira@panix.com (Greg "Sarcasm Is A Way Of Life" Spira)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
Subject: Re: Dick Williams as Manager of the Padres?!?!?
Date: 22 Aug 92 00:05:38 GMT
Organization: Boo!

For those interested in Dick Williams, I strongly recommend the autobiography
he wrote a few years ago - I think it was called "No More Mr. Nice Guy"
Unlike most player/manager autobiographies, this one was quite interesting 
and a lot of fun to read.

Greg 
-- 
  spira@panix.com       "The one-O delivery to Fisk.  He swings.  Long drive,  
 cmcl2!panix!spira      left field!  If it stays fair, it's gone!  Home Run!"  
158-17 Riverside Dr.                     Ned Martin, 10/22/75   
Whitestone NY 11357          (Insert your favorite baseball moment here)
From: efindler@oasys.dt.navy.mil (Edward Findler)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
Subject: Re: Phillies/Orioles Trade(Scarsone/Bell)
Date: 12 Aug 92 21:12:56 GMT
Reply-To: efindler@oasys.dt.navy.mil (Edward Findler)
Organization: Carderock Division, NSWC, Bethesda, MD

In rec.sport.baseball, rob@chili.hnrc.tufts.edu writes:
>Wasn't Bell the main prospect the Orioles got for Eddie Murray?


Yes, Juan Bell was supposed to be the future shortstop and star of the
Orioles.  He is the last remnant of the horrendous Eddie Murray trade.
 Now the trade is a confirmed failure.  The Dodgers and Mets got a good
solid hitter, and we get some potential that never worked out.  However,
I'm sure Juan Bell will be an all-star pretty soon, as is the case with
most former Orioles(see Martinez, Denny and Finley, Steve just for starters).



-- Ted Findler
-- 
__________________________________________________________
|        Ted Findler         | Watch for Cal in June '95 |
| efindler@oasys.dt.navy.mil |  Consecutive Game #2131   |
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
From: tedward@cs.cornell.edu (Edward [Ted] Fischer)
Subject: Bosox swept!
Organization: Cornell Univ. CS Dept, Ithaca NY 14853
Date: Sat, 15 Aug 1992 06:50:39 GMT


The Red Sox offense stinks!  Eldred held them to three hits and one
walk in eight shutout innings.  Not that Greg Harris pitched badly
either.  He allowed seven hits (and at least one walk) in the first
four innings, but then proceeded to no-hit the Brewers for the rest of
the game.  With a bit of luck and good defense, he escaped with only
one run.  So his ERA drops below 2.50, but his record is 2-7.  You go
figure!

Cheers,
-Valentine
-- 
Ob. woof: Clemens is the best pitcher ever!	tedward@cs.cornell.edu
From: wlarkin@panix.com (Ward Larkin)
Subject: Village Voice Trivia Quiz  11-20
Date: Wed, 12 Aug 1992 14:02:06 GMT
Organization: PANIX Public Access Unix & Internet, NYC

The following appeared in the August 18, 1992 issue
of the Village Voice.

"Can't Anybody Here Take This Quiz?"

Baseball ... the perfect game, the game of men at
work and of fathers playing catch with sons on a
field of dreams in the glory of their times.  We
enter the cathedral of baseball as supplicants --
but as American supplicants, in that most American
cathedral of democratic sancity that is uniquely
American and democratic, a Game of Ball being played
by noble Men who are in fact Boys, themselves
playing on infinite American cornfields of perfect
democratic geometry.  Slowly the Game proceeds,
slowly, for we are thinking.  It is in this spirit
that we present the following quiz by Dan Gutman, 
author of Baseball Babylon.  Rhymes, timeless rhymes.



The following are questions 11 thru 20 out of 40.

11. Which National League president blew his brains
    out with a revolver?

12. Which player ex-murdered his wife and two
    children, then slit his own throat?

13. What pitcher and friend of Ernest Hemingway put
    a gun in his mouth and blew his brains out?

14. Which player went beserk on an airplane and
    died when the pilot hit him over the head with
    a fire extinguisher?

15. Name at least two players who have been brought
    up on murder charges.

16. Name the only major leaguer to be executed ( for
    murdering his five-year-old daughter and his
    sister in-law).

17. Which Hall of Famer died after choking on meat?

18. Which field position has the shortest life   
    expectancy

19. What Dodger hocked his World Series ring to
    support his drug habit?

20. Name the four Royals arrested and convicted, and
    jailed on drug charges in 1983.


The answers will be posted in about a week.
From: dittrich@sal-sun50.usc.edu (Matt Dittrich)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
Subject: Re: Wrigley Field Quewstion
Date: 21 Aug 1992 18:28:50 -0700
Organization: University of Southern California, Los Angeles, CA
NNTP-Posting-Host: sal-sun50.usc.edu

In article <19AUG199220244337@pierre.mit.edu> kettler@pierre.mit.edu (KETTLER, THOMAS R.) writes:

[...]

> This I remember from my four years at 
>Northwestern during which I visited Wrigley occasionally to see the Expos 
>beat the Flubs, er Cubs.

I think you meant to say, "... I visited Wrigley to see the Expos occasionally
beat the Cubs."

-- 
                                                               __
Matt Dittrich    | "Well the god I believe in        |        /  `
dittrich@usc.edu |      isn't short on cash, Mister" |   GO  |  UBS
                 |       -Bono on televangelists     |        \__,
From: pcaster@mizar.usc.edu (Dodger)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
Subject: Re: Astacio Shuts Out Mets for Dodger Win
Date: 20 Aug 1992 19:20:49 -0700
Organization: University of Southern California, Los Angeles, CA
NNTP-Posting-Host: mizar.usc.edu

zappala@Xerox.com (Daniel Zappala) writes:

>In article <l93oneINNqqk@mizar.usc.edu>, pcaster@mizar.usc.edu (Dodger) writes:
>> 
>> The Dodgers are showing their look of the future, and
>> suddenly, things don't look quite so bad.  Karros
>> has all but sewn up Rookie of the Year honors, Rodriquez
>> is hitting around .300, Goodwin is getting ready to
>> replace Butler, Offerman is settling down at short,
>> Young is getting work at second...and the two Pedros
>> will soon be starting for the Dodgers with Ramon,
>> Orel, and Candiotti.


>When do you think Goodwin will replace Butler?  Next year?  With
>Butler doing so well right now, I can't see them not playing him
>next year.

>This raises a good issue though: if Goodwin, Rodriguez, and perhaps
>Ashley are ready to play, what do the Dodgers do with their "great outfield?"
>I can see them using Butler less as he gets older the next few years,
>but it seems like Rodriguez and Ashley and Mondesi would have to wait
>a while for Davis and Strawberry....or will they not be re-signed?

I'd be surprised if the Dodgers sign Davis, who is a free agent, especially
the way Rodriguez is playing (9 game hitting streak batting over .400).
There's even some talk of trading Strawberry...that wouldn't surprise
me either.  But Straw has to prove he's healthy again.


>Also, I heard that Lasorda may ask Gross to go to the bullpen so that
>Astacio can start, and that Gross isn't thrilled (he just pitched a no-hitter!).
>Is Gross not good enough to keep starting?  It seems like his numbers have
>been good this year, but maybe I'm just fondly remembering his 13-strikeout
>game.  Also, does this mean they'll release Crews??  Please???


Gross's no-hitter creates a real dilemma.  The Dodgers have to think
about next year, so they need to see if Astacio can continue to pitch
well, especially the second time around the league.  The Dodgers
probably won't protect Gross, hoping one of the expansion teams
grab him.

>Are there definite plans to bring up Pedro Martinez soon?  Or will this be
>when they expand rosters?

I believe Martinez is on the DL, but he is getting much better.  They
are going slowly with him, but Bill Russell says he is ahead of Astacio.

>And is there any hope in the minor leagues for a closer or other bullpen help??

Rudy Seanez could be the Dodgers closer of the future, if he ever gets
healthy again.  Last I heard, he was on the mend.  Don't know how
good Zak is (AAA closer?)

				BleedsDodgerBlue


>Daniel
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
From: sinhaa@maccs.dcss.mcmaster.ca (Anand Sinha)
Subject: Re: Andres walks twice, hit once!  More Andres News!
Keywords: Tom Runnells *was* good for *something*
Organization: Department of Computer Science, McMaster University
Date: Mon, 17 Aug 1992 17:39:53 GMT

Something that I read recently struck a funny chord in me the other day.  In
an interview with the Montreal press before the Cards-Expos series, Andres was
talking about Felipe Alou.  He said that Felipe was a good manager, and that
Andres would probably have stayed in Montreal had Tom Runnells been fired
in the off-season and replaced by Alou before the season started.  Apparently
Andres and Felipe got along very well, whereas Andres and Runnells didn't.  
Andres blamed his very poor 2nd half last year on Runnells.

The only thought that I had was: "Mid-season manager changes *are* good.  If
the Galaragga for Hill deal had not happened, the Expos would be near the 
bottom of the NL East, and Cards near the top.  Thank you Expos brass"

Anand Sinha
Blue Jays #1 -> all the way in '92
Roberto Alomar for MVP
Juan Guzman for Cy Young ... looking worse now.
From: jhg8680@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (Jon  Hamkins)
Subject: Re: Dream Team
Organization: University of Illinois at Urbana
Date: Thu, 13 Aug 1992 14:58:38 GMT

rc@hal.COM (Rolland Crunk) writes:

>I am *not* a Mets fan and never have been. Yes maybe my leaning towards
>David Cone is based on his superior strikeout numbers. But if a batter
>strikes out, there is no possibility of him to:

>	1. Get a base hit
>	2. Advance a base runner 
>	3. Reach base on an error

I'll agree with 1, but apparently you missed the thread on swinging on
wild strike threes.  This is a *very* minor point, but this makes 2 and
3 wrong.

>How does a particular stadium have any effect on how many batters a
>pitcher stikes out? A better pitching mound? Yeah right...

Lots of things, yes, including the pitching mound.  Even the amount of
foul territory affects how many strikeouts a pitcher gets.  (Think
about it.)  Offhand, I'd say other relevant factors are lighting, the
mound, the backdrop contrast, and the catcher.

>And what collection of statistics are important for a pitcher?
>[wins: no]
>[ERA: OK, but slight variations don't mean much]
>[fantasy scores]

>Name		W(+15)	L(+8)	IP(+1)	SO(+1)	ER(-1)	Total  | ERA(0)
>---------------------------------------------------------------|------
>Roger Clemens	11	7	162	138	42	368    | 2.32
>David Cone	13	4	170	194	51	476    | 2.69

>	[W, L, IP, SO, Total, ERA rankings for RC and DC]

Great.  Is there any reason you chose ordinal numbers?  You've GOT the
cardinal numbers, so why not do a comparison directly?

>The point I am trying to make is that statistics can be used in any
>way that one wants to in order to support their opinion. 

No, they can be MISused to support any opinion.  Some ways of
manipulating stats just don't hold water.  For example, under your
fantasy system, pitching 5 innings, giving up 10 runs, and picking up
the win is equally valuable to pitching 10 innings, allowing no runs,
and getting no decision.  That's *absurd*, whether you like to
emphasize strikeouts or not.

>Finally, my opinion that David Cone is (currently) the best pitcher in
>either league with Roger Clemens second is just that. My opinion (yeah
>I've got one too). You don't have to like it and I'm not gonna spend a 
>lot of time trying to justify it or convince anyone else.

Rolland, you claimed David Cone is better than Roger Clemens.  People
asked why you thought that, and you gave shitty reasons.  Certainly you
can understand people complaining about that.  Most people prefer to
defend the things they believe.  An opinion doesn't hold weight on its
own.

     ----Jon Hamkins  (hamkins@uiuc.edu)
         University of Illinios
         Urbana, IL