HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: ospahic@ddsw1.mcs.com (Olga Spahic)
Newsgroups: alt.support.diet
Subject: Mean family members...
Date: 29 Sep 92 15:58:55 GMT
Organization: ddsw1.MCS.COM Contributor, Chicago, IL

I've been reading the comments on "skinny people" and how little
understanding they sometimes have for their overweight friends
and family members...

But what does one do when an overweight family member tells you that
you are really fat....?  I'm not claiming that my family looks
great (a bit overweight, I would say)... but my father is constantly
throwing insults and my mom and me about the way we look... whereas
when we comment about his appearance, he gets very defensive.
Double standards?... 


We have some theories as to why he is like that... but what do 
you all think?

I can handle the negative comments but like anyone else I would
much rather receive some positive criticism on what I could do to better
myself....



Thanks for any comments.  =)
From: jsl+@pitt.edu (John S Lundberg)
Newsgroups: alt.support.diet
Subject: Re: Need motivation
Date: 30 Sep 92 16:10:21 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: University of Pittsburgh

In article <6536@blue.cis.pitt.edu.UUCP> jsl+@pitt.edu (John S Lundberg) writes:
>...Start walking every day and stick to it forever.  

I reread this and realized that I was making an assumption that the
reader is capable of walking and that such advice might appear insensitive
for someone who is unable to walk.  I should have written something like
"Find some exercise that you can do and stick to it forever.  Walking
is a good choice for many people."  
-- 
John Lundberg  
jsl@unix.cis.pitt.edu
From: SASTLS@mvs.sas.com (Tamara Shaffer)
Newsgroups: alt.support.diet
Subject: Re: Losing fat, not muscle
Date: 1 Oct 92 14:55:00 GMT
Organization: SAS Institute Inc.

>From: djk@saki.NoSubdomain.NoDomain (Douglas Knights)
>Message-ID: <1992Sep30.202623.19435@porthos.cc.bellcore.com>
>
>Bonnie, 
>
>You hit it right on the head...there really is no quick fix for weight
                                ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>loss (besides possibly severing a limb 8-0  ) and it  is a lifestyle
>change which includes, according to reputable doctors and physicians,
>sensible eating habits, exercise, and supplementation (yes...we don't
>necessarily get all of the right nutrients in the foods we eat, even if
>we try to eat right).
>
>                        Doug
>
>*----------------------------------------------------------------------------*
>        The opinions expressed above are my own and not my employer....
>                        heck I might not even claim them!
>
>        A NEW product which increases metabolism by 21% and burns body
         ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>        fat is now available through IDN.  Contact me for info.
         ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
 
Is this a joke?
 
TAMARA
From: jsl+@pitt.edu (John S Lundberg)
Newsgroups: alt.support.diet
Subject: Re: Plateaus
Date: 27 Sep 92 18:09:34 GMT
Organization: University of Pittsburgh

In article <63620050@hpcc01.corp.hp.com> brooksp@hpcc01.corp.hp.com (Peter Brooks) writes:
>When I
>started my fast, I weighed 393 pounds.  Without any exercise, maintenance
>calories were [F/X: muttering, puching of calculator keys.] 4716 per day.
>Now that I've hit my target of 195 pounds, maintenance calories are
>2340 per day.  

I'm sure you're speaking with a great deal more authority and knowledge
than I am, but I have to wonder at that 4716 number.  With no exercise,
a person who weighs 393 lbs can eat 4716 calories/day and not gain 
weight?  Really?  How many Big Macs is that? :-> I don't doubt that a
heavier person would need more calories to perform an equivalent
amount of exercise as a person who weighed less.  My own set of 
"operating assumptions" includes the idea that as I lose weight I'll
become more active and thus be able to rely more on exercise and less
on caloric deficits as the means by which I can lose weight.
-- 
John Lundberg  
jsl@unix.cis.pitt.edu 
Newsgroups: alt.support.diet
From: bspink@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (Bonnie B Spink)
Subject: Re: WW
Organization: The Ohio State University
Date: Tue, 6 Oct 1992 21:24:12 GMT

In article <1992Oct5.144321.6846@newstand.syr.edu> mprisco@lynx.cat.syr.edu wri
tes:
>
>my lifetime membership.  This could cost me another $200.  I'm
>wondering two things:  If I stop going, will it be harder
>for me to stay on it?

I was going to WW and lost 38 pounds and I quit going to the WW meeting
because I felt I was in control enough to finish on my own (21 pounds.)
The first year after I quit I gained 2 whole pounds so even though I
didn't lose, I felt I was hanging in there.  Then, this last year I have
put on 15 pounds.  Now I am back to going again and have lost 5 pounds (31
to go). My lecturer says the three most important things for the program
to work is (1) go to the meetings and listen to the lecture, (2) use the food
plan, and (3) exercise.  If you stop going...it is easy to get distracted
and fall back into old habits - even though you have been doing terrific thus
far!  And by the way... your are doing terrific!


>And, is it worth getting your lifetime
>membership?  Rationally, I feel like I should stop going
>but I also feel superstitious about it.

The way I understand it is after you reach your goal the diet is modified
to eat like a normal person and not necessarily like one who is on a strict 
diet.  Yes, this is now our way of life however, moderation is the key and
they each you about moderation.

>Its not like I'm
>getting any support (I usually go weigh in early and
>only see the receptionist)....  Any ideas?


Yes, stay for the lecture.  Granted it's not always exciting but 
one person may say something that might help you stay focused.   Maybe
try another meeting and listen to another lecture.  This person may
have another approach to get you through this last few pounds.

GOOD LUCK!

Bonnie
From: murray@corner.wpb.fl.us (Murray Kahl)
Newsgroups: alt.support.diet
Subject: Re: Winning, losing & sur
Date: 28 Sep 92 19:53:43 GMT
X-Maildoor: WaflineMail 1.00r

To: brooksp@hpcc01.corp.hp.com (Peter Brooks)

PB>Yeah, I know temptation...


I think it was Oscar Wilde that said, "I can withstand everything but
temptation." How true!
                                                                                    
Newsgroups: alt.support.diet
From: rfelix@netcom.com (Robbie Felix)
Subject: Re: Losing fat, not muscle
Date: Wed, 30 Sep 92 00:02:19 GMT
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services  (408 241-9760 guest) 

In article <1992Sep29.195256.14902@grebyn.com> fi@grebyn.com (Fiona Webster) writes:
>Beth Mazur writes, about very-low-calorie diets:
>> ... the side effects (like slow metabolism and hair loss)
>>are temporary and can be reversed. 
>
>Of the four *major* effects on my life, from an Optifast diet I
>did in the spring of '88, only two have reversed:
>
>	1) net weight gain of 100 pounds (yes, 100 pounds)
>	over my pre-Optifast weight --> not yet reversed
>
>	2) loss of about 3/4 of my long thick hair --> reversed
>
>	3) major depression, including two psychotic episodes
>	and multiple hospitalizations --> reversed (although I
>	still take antidepressants)
>
>	4) loss of my job, massive debts, and permanent change
>        in lifestyle, as a result of #3 --> not reversed
>
>More than four years later, I still curse the day I decided
>to undergo that awful ordeal.  My medical doctor encouraged me
>to file a law suit, and my psychiatrist was willing to testify
>in court that mine was not the first case he'd seen of devastating
>mental illness as a result of self-imposed starvation...but I
>was too sick, even to consider it.
>
>I'm just glad to be alive--glad I didn't kill myself in the depths
>of the illness! 
>
>						--Fiona Webster

Fiona,

It is very sad that you experienced such a devastating result from the
VLCD. I witnessed my mother going through hell dieting when I was a
child and it has had a profound affect ( negative) on my life.

My mother was addicted to diet pills to "control" her appetite, she
took sleeping pills to sleep, tranquilizers to function and many other
drugs( thyroid,etc)all from doctors "helping" her with her "weight
problem".

She was always locked in her room, feeling too unhappy to spend any
time with us. She was nervous, angry,depressed and non-communicative a
lot of the time. She was either feeling bad for being fat or feeling
bad because of her drug roller-coaster most of the time.

She gained and lost 80 lbs or more several times when I was a child,
mostly on very low calorie diets supplemented with plenty of
"medically-approved" drugs.

I feel that people SHOULD do whatever works for them. But I feel that
my mother's experience ravaged her and it ravaged our family. The cost
cannot be measured. None of us will ever get back what we lost because
of the extreme weight loss measures.

It works so much better to develop new habits, to change over time, to
find a program you can LIVE with! My parents are now following a
regular diet prescribed for their diabetes. They are losing weight (
my mom has lost about 35 lbs).and eating well and learning to live
differently. They seem happier, more self-confident. I hope this will
be the plan that works for them!

I hope that people considering extreme plans will stay open to other
approaches if they find out it isn't really working for them...

rf
From: brooksp@hpcc01.corp.hp.com (Peter Brooks)
Newsgroups: alt.support.diet
Subject: Re: fats in food
Date: 24 Sep 92 18:09:54 GMT
Organization: the HP Corporate notes server

American Heart association suggests that 30% of the calories from
fat are a good target for a normal diet.  (This seems to be
backed up by other sources.)  On the other hand, there is a
reasonable body of folks who say that 20% is better.  On the
gripping hand, Dr. Ornish (of the heart improvement programs)
claims that 10% is necessary to reverse cholesterol-plaque
buildup.

I'm not striving for any particular numbers, but we're doing a
"fat module" at maintenance class; from 3 days of typical
foods, I was running < 10%.  So long as I stay away from that
cool whip, I can stay flat.  (actually, with normal activity,
a slippage to cool whip kicks me to 20%...  Mr. Extreme strikes
again.)

I don't suggest that 10% is enjoyable if you aren't used to it,
but I find it OK, and it is *not* a strictly vegetarian diet.  Not
with tuna and a little bit of turkey in it.

Pete Brooks
Newsgroups: alt.support.diet
From: pjd@unislc.uucp (Priscilla Davidson)
Subject: Re: Need motivation
Organization: Unisys Corporation SLC
Distribution: usa
Date: Thu, 1 Oct 1992 22:57:35 GMT

This might help you get back on track:

Some nutritionist/diet doctor, I can't remember who, recommends tackling
problems with overeating one meal at a time.  In other words, let's say
you have a problem with snacking in the evening.  So for the first week,
you just work on not snacking too much after dinner.  You might plan a
low-fat snack at 9 p.m. every night, and stick to it for a week.  When you 
feel you've kicked the habit of snacking at night, then go on to the next
problem meal, let's say high-fat midmorning snacks (doughnuts!).  I tried
this for a while and pretty soon had a low-fat diet going for myself --
3 meals and 3 snacks a day.  

Another thing that worked for me was making a list of all the reasons
I wanted to lose weight.  Everytime I thought of a new reason, I added the
reason to my list.  I ended up with a long list -- wanted to fit into
my clothes again, wanted my wedding ring to fit right, etc., etc.  If I
got bored with dieting and wanted to blow it for a day, I pulled out the
list and reminded myself that the diet was for ME and these were MY reasons
-- nobody was doing it TO me, but I was dieting FOR MYSELF.  Or, every
day you can diet for a new reason.  Once my wedding band fit again, I
concentrated on fitting into clothes.  Every couple of weeks, I can give 
away some old member of my "fat" wardrobe, and I make it into a ceremony.

You can do it! Just make sure the motivation comes from within you.  And
give yourself permission to do this at your own pace.  Once I stopped
concentrating on following a diet 100% to the letter and losing weight
according to a timetable, I found out what really  worked for me and
started to lose.


Newsgroups: alt.support.diet
From: khare@watserv1.uwaterloo.ca (Kathy Hare - DCS)
Subject: Re: my husband is mean Update #2
Organization: University of Waterloo
Distribution: alt
Date: Thu, 1 Oct 1992 06:21:30 GMT

Hi Folks
 
I promised an update once I had collected my thoughts and talked to my 
husband.
 
Well first of all when I got home from work there were flowers on the table
for me. No note but I knew who they were from and why. Later he said he 
got them because he thought I could use a pick me up. Which from the 
8 years I've known him means I'm sorry for upsetting you. (see I told 
you all he really is a nice guy).
 
I didn't say anything to him for a couple of days until we were talking and 
somhow got to this subject. Well I asked him if he didn't want me to lose 
weight? He said yes he did. I asked him if he thought by teasing me that would 
make me try harder? He said no it was just teasing. I told him I did not 
appreciate it and it really hurt my feelings. 
 
To make a long and personal story short we worked things out. When I sat 
back and thought about it I realized I have been very moody lately. We 
found out the reason why too, I'm pregnant! Almost a month. It took 
my husband a few days to get used to the idea, me too for that matter.
But we are both very happy about it. (we planned to strart trying in Jan)
So I guess there goes my hops of losing weight, but I will keep up my 
excerise to make it easier after the baby is born. 
 
So everything is ok now and I have something new to worry about. 
Thanks for all the help and support from everyone it's greatly appreciated.
 
Kathy

Newsgroups: alt.support.diet
From: jimo@navaho.uucp (25656-o'keefe)
Subject: Nutrasystem
Organization: Bellcore, Livingston, NJ
Date: Mon, 5 Oct 92 15:55:11 GMT
Keywords: diet

My fiance is considering Nutrasystem.  She is about
100 lbs overweight.  She tried WW and Diet Center.  Any
pros / cons on Nutrasystem would be appreciated.  Real costs?

Thanks..

Jim
Newsgroups: alt.support.diet
From: scotti@mtl.mit.edu (Gretchen Fuller)
Subject: Re: my husband is mean Update #2
Organization: MIT Microsystems Technology Laboratories
Distribution: alt
Date: Thu, 1 Oct 1992 19:53:43 GMT

Talk about happy endings!  Congratulations! To both of (oops, all
THREE of you)!  

Eating healthy and walking and such will not only make "dieting"
after the baby is born easier, it will make HAVING the baby easier.

When you are feeling really blue and ready to do something drastic
to your husband, remember the song from the King and I called
"Something Wonderful".  If you don't know it, get a copy and really
listen to the words.  It is sung by the Number 1 Wife about the king.

Scotti
From: crawford@ben.dev.upenn.edu (Lauren L. Crawford)
Newsgroups: alt.support.diet
Subject: Re: Shoes
Keywords: Walking
Date: 1 Oct 92 22:07:03 GMT
Organization: University of Pennsylvania

In article <1884@shaman.wv.tek.com> peggys@orca.wv.tek.com writes:
>Starting Monday my daughter & I will be starting a regular walking routine.
>We are going shopping this weekend to look at shoes and I would appreciate
>your help and advice as to what I should be looking for.  Comfort and support
>are by all means most important as I can get real cranky if my feet are 
>hurting.  What about cushion, shock absorbing, gel?  I also have a tendancy
>towards shin splints.  What do you walkers recommend and why?


I have flat feet, and I've been walking a lot lately.  A couple of weeks
ago, I developed pain in the ball of my left foot.  

Fortunately, my boyfriend is a fourth-year podiatry student.  He told me
that a couple of my joints were inflamed, mostly because of the
combination of flat feet, increased walking, a painful episode with high
heels, and shoes with poor support.  I'd been wearing Reebok's aerobic
shoes, which I found very comfortable but apparently don't offer enough
support for walking.

Last night he took my shoe shopping and recommended I go with New Balance
walking shoes.  They're expensive, but they're well cushioned and have
excellent support.  He then put in arch supports as well.  

I still can't do much walking until the inflammation goes down (has anyone
else had this problem, by the way?  It's two joints on my middle toes, in
the ball of my foot).  But so far, the shoes have been _great_.  I can
already tell the difference from the Reeboks.

Happy walking.




-- 
Lauren Crawford  //  crawford@ben.dev.upenn.edu
From: terri@csd4.csd.uwm.edu (St Theresa of the Net)
Newsgroups: alt.support.diet
Subject: Re: Shoes
Date: 2 Oct 1992 01:02:14 GMT
Organization: Computing Something Division
NNTP-Posting-Host: 129.89.7.4
Keywords: Walking

In article <1992Oct2.000915.24934@grebyn.com> fi@grebyn.com (Fiona Webster) writes:
>One person's opinion:
>I also found it helpful to go shopping at a real athletes' store--
>not a big chain--the kind of store where you show the clerk what
>your feet are like, standing sock-footed, and she/he is able to give
>you advice about what shoe would be best for you.  You may pay a little
>more for the shoe, by going to a place where the clerks know what
>they're doing, but after the shoe wears out, in six months or so (does
>anyone really follow that every-three-months guideline?), you can 
>pick up a replacement at the discount outlet.

YES!

Getting your foot actually measured --- length, width and arch -- and
determination of activity, all that --- didn't happen to me at the big
chain places.  The night i decided to buy shoes, the clerk came up to me,
asked how i was doing, took one pair of shoes away to put back and didn't
come back.  I bought shoes that had totally improper arch support and ended
up returning them (after i washed the bottoms off. they don't take back
shoes that look remotely worn.)  

In only five minutes at a specialty store, the clerk measured my feet,
asked about what i was going to do in the shoes, asked about problems i had
had, how advanced i was (not very!) and recommended a few different styles
of shoes!  All this service in less time than it takes my dad to get
impatient!!

As it turned out, i could only return the icky shoes for a credit, not
cash, but i did write to the professional shoe goddess's manager commending
her and promising that next time, they do get my business.

You can't save any money if you can't wear the shoes.



-- 
A little bit of uh huh and a whole lot of oh yeah.   \  (414)CRUSH-13
T. Flynn's Casa de Interesting: 1755 N Cambridge Ave #306 Milwaukee WI 53202    
Newsgroups: alt.support.diet
From: crawford@ben.dev.upenn.edu (Lauren L. Crawford)
Newsgroups: alt.support.diet
Subject: Foot update
Date: 5 Oct 92 18:28:52 GMT
Organization: University of Pennsylvania


A short update on my foot pain (a topic that keeps popping up in this
group).  I had mentioned pain in the ball of my foot that developed
shortly after my wearing high heels to a wedding three weeks ago.  It has
gotten worse since then, although I've made a real effort to get off the
foot as much as possible.  

Turns out it's a stress fracture, apparently not uncommon in women unused
to heels who try to wear them at a long stretch.  And being overweight
sure doesn't help.

Anyone else had a stress fracture in the foot before?  How did things go?


-- 
Lauren Crawford  //  crawford@ben.dev.upenn.edu
Newsgroups: alt.support.diet
From: fi@grebyn.com (Fiona Webster)
Subject: Re: Losing fat, not muscle
Organization: Grebyn Timesharing
Date: Tue, 29 Sep 1992 19:52:56 GMT

Beth Mazur writes, about very-low-calorie diets:
> ... the side effects (like slow metabolism and hair loss)
>are temporary and can be reversed. 

Of the four *major* effects on my life, from an Optifast diet I
did in the spring of '88, only two have reversed:

	1) net weight gain of 100 pounds (yes, 100 pounds)
	over my pre-Optifast weight --> not yet reversed

	2) loss of about 3/4 of my long thick hair --> reversed

	3) major depression, including two psychotic episodes
	and multiple hospitalizations --> reversed (although I
	still take antidepressants)

	4) loss of my job, massive debts, and permanent change
        in lifestyle, as a result of #3 --> not reversed

More than four years later, I still curse the day I decided
to undergo that awful ordeal.  My medical doctor encouraged me
to file a law suit, and my psychiatrist was willing to testify
in court that mine was not the first case he'd seen of devastating
mental illness as a result of self-imposed starvation...but I
was too sick, even to consider it.

I'm just glad to be alive--glad I didn't kill myself in the depths
of the illness! 

						--Fiona Webster
From: brooksp@hpcc01.corp.hp.com (Peter Brooks)
Date: Mon, 5 Oct 1992 17:49:01 GMT
Subject: Re: Re: How do you walk that much? (was Re: inspiration)
Organization: the HP Corporate notes server
Newsgroups: alt.support.diet

Yeah, the preceeding posters gave the essentials.  Your walking
may have to be curtailed (or even chopped; depends on how you
respond).  You can (probably) pick up later.  I'm allowed to
try ramping my milage.  I'm planning to go up 1.5 miles per day,
and I'll hold at each new level for a week or two to see how
well things work.  I'll still be doing some bicycling into the
rainy season (I hope it rains, anyway!), but should be able to
do a walk to/from the train station by December.  I hope.

In my case, I have a "flexible arch".  Don't know for sure, but
the foot problems first showed up (in a minor way) in 1971.  With
strain, my foot will tend to flatten, but the plantar fascia ain't
designed to stretch.  As it tears, it hurts.  Bone spurs (those
on the bottom; heel spurs on the back are a different critter)
are a result, not a cause per se, though they make a bad situation
worse.

I've had good luck with Feldene as an anti-inflammatory.  Like all
of these, your milage may (will!) vary.  The podiatrist wants me in
permanant orthoses Real Soon Now.  They can be transferred from shoe
to shoe, and are supposed to last forever, which softens the blow from
the (uninsured) cost of circa $300.

Pete Brooks

Newsgroups: alt.support.diet
From: af080@yfn.ysu.edu (Gary Nicklas)
Subject: Pear or Apple Crisp Recipe
Organization: Youngstown State University/Youngstown Free-Net
Date: Tue, 29 Sep 1992 18:11:37 GMT


Some time back, someone requested a recipe for pears, fat-free
recipes, I think.  I found a Jenny Craig recipe for pears or
apples that is sugar-free, but not fat-free.  Here it is if
anyone is interested.  I haven't tried it yet myself.

Gary

        SUGAR-FREE APPLE OR PEAR CRISP

1 1/2 pounds apples or pears, peeled, cored, and thinly sliced
3 Tablespoons all-purpose flour
1/4 cup frozen unsweetened apple juice concentrate
1/2 teaspoon ground cinnamon
Dash freshly ground nutmeg
3 Tablespoons corn-oil margarine, softened
10 graham cracker squares, crushed (3/4 cup)

Preheat oven to 375 deg. F.  In an 8-inch square baking dish,
toss the apples or pears with 1 Tablespoon of the flour.  Add the
conc. apple juice.  Coat well.

In a small bowl, combine the remaining 2 T. of flour and the
spices with the margarine and mix until well blended.

Gradually stir in the graham cracker crumbs until the mixture
resembles coarse crumbs.  Sprinkle evenly over the fruit.

Bake for 30 minutes or until the topping is lightly browned and
the fruit is tender.

Makes 16 two-inch square servings.

--