From: malcolmc@spider.co.uk (Malcolm Campbell)
Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.misc
Subject: Re: GURPS sharp-shooter
Date: 14 Dec 92 02:16:32 GMT
Organization: Spider Systems Limited, Edinburgh, UK


I wrote...
>>A 21 gun skill is too easy to get (although the new High Tech rules for
>>firing under stress etc do something to releive that)..
>>
>>Eg.  DX 14, IQ 12 (gives +2)  - 16 points gives skill 20, 24 gives skill 21.
>>
>>Compare this to getting Broadsword-21, you need 48 points for the same skill
>>level with the same stats (a 3 level difference). 

Bryce Koike writes:
>	Uh, to get your gun skill of 21, you just spent 89 points
>total.  With 40 points of disads, that's still a 59 point character,
>which is *NOT* an "average human."  This 59 point character has done
>absolutely nothing but train with a gun.  By the very definition of
>his stats, he's already fairly talented.  (I agree that it's too easy
>to HIT with a rifle, although in hot-and-heavy combat, I've seen
>this go away at times...not having time to aim does that...)

Regardless - GURPS characters are rarely normal people.. The two most common
genres for people to play this sort of character in would be present day
Special Ops/Espionage (150+ point characters not uncommon), and Cyberpunk
(250+ point characters not uncommon)..

You just spent 24 points to get a Gun skill of 21 (DX and HT are generally
useful, and can get you some good mental and physical skills). How many GM's
would say DX 14 and IQ 12 was unreasonable..?

Lets look at an example from Cyberpunk Adventures...

Sniper - Guns - 16
 carbine - acc  11
 bracing         1
 aiming          4
 range          -4
   (inc elevation)

		==
		27 or less

So he aims for the head, full autofire - and guess what, the scenario says
he misses.. Of course, its a bad idea to kill characters so easily.. :)

Maybe it is realistic, but its not much fun to play.. When PC's start using
snipers, the opposition should surely do the same..

>	Broadsword is also more difficult than guns (or so it is
>from my own personal experience.  Yours is different?).

Actually, it is.. I found it much easier to get to the level where I could
hit someone with a sword than a gun, but after a while, guns are easier -
yes.. I was never a very good shot though.. and Im comparitively good with a
katana.. Im not what Id call a high DX character, but my IQ is probably 14
or 15 in GURPS terms, so I should find guns easy, no.. ? :)

> It is
>equally simple to get other skills at "absurd" levels in GURPS.  But
>the people I've known who have devoted much of their lives to
>something tend to be quite the experts in that field.  (that's 2400
>hours of *STUDY* with a gun.

Im more concerned with how easy it is to get unreasonably high skills with a
gun for very few points. Eg, as before - DX 14, IQ 12, 1/2 point gives a 15
skill - plus a possible +15 in bonusses from Acc, aiming, sights, etc..

>It's an advantage in combat to a point, but this character is going
>to have to be a lot more than a marksman to make it in any game I'm
>running.  (Oh and pity the fool when he runs out of ammunition...
>smile)

>>Now when you can add aiming, weapon accuracy, scope modifiers etc - its not
>>hard to double your skill in a sniping situation... Giving an effective
>>skill in the mid thirties, perhaps..
>
>	Yes, that's true.  But guns are fairly easy to shoot from my
>own experience (again, not as easy as GURPS lets it be, though), and
>a few seconds of aiming does wonders to accuracy as compared to,
>say, wild flailing as people tend to do in the movies (of course for
>cinematic play this would be perfect...the hero who never misses...
>a la Just About Every Action Movie Made)

Thats the other problem with high Guns skill - the ability to ignore the
snapshot penalty too damn easily..

>>Snipers should have a good chance to hit, but I think these bonuses can go
>>too far sometimes...
>
>	Yes, that's probably true.  But, ah well...it's just a game,
>right?  And as a GM, one could always say, "I don't think so." 

Thats true.. But why have all these complex rules to just ignore them.. :)
We may as well all go back and play TFT (which I do from time to time -
great, fun system)..

--- Malcolm

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Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.misc