From: zmbenhal@netcom.com (Zeyd M. Ben-Halim)
Subject: Re: Israel and the Fourth Geneva Convention (was: Israeli Nazism?)
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services (408 241-9760 guest)
Date: Sun, 27 Dec 1992 21:26:07 GMT

In article <BzwuJ1.D4w.1@cs.cmu.edu> clamen+@CS.CMU.EDU writes:
>Firstly,
>
>a) the last recognized (ie. legal) governing authority in the West
             ^^^^^^^^^^      ^^^^^
>   Bank and Gaza was the League of Nations (later UN) Mandate granted
>   to the United Kingdom,
>
>b) much of the regulations managing day-to-day life under the British
>   Mandate were inherited from the time when Palestine was part of the
>   Ottoman Empire.

Recognized by whom? The LoN was a bunch of Imperialist countries that held
most of the rest of the world under colonization. The does not somehow give
it legitimacy. The mandate was given to Britain as the occupying power, it
went on to Promise the arabs independence in Syria (arab sham), the zionists
a jewish homeland in Palestine, and the french to split the whole area up.
I don't see where the legal authority comes from.

>Now, a question:
>
>The Egyptian and Jordanian occupations of the now-Israeli occupied
>Gaza and West Bank were not (generally) internationally recognized.
>Do the laws enacted during their illegal hold any weight during the
>current Israeli occupation?

Who cares? An occupying force, be it Egyptian or Jordanian or Israeli, don't
have to keep old laws. They can invent new sets of laws, modify existing ones,
or leave them intact. Who's going to stop them?

>As I understand the Geneva Convention, the occupying country is
>obligated to follow a few basic rules, including:
>
>	1) no forced, mass deportations of occupied population,
>	2) no forced migrations of its own citizenry INTO 
>	   occupied territory,
>	3) maintenance of the status quo wrt. laws and regulations,
>	4) policing the occupied territory

I guess Israel fails on all four counts.

>2) What level of punishments can Israel, as an occupying power under
>   the Geneva Convention, inflict?  Can it invoke the death penalty,
>   group punishment, etc., citing its legality under British Mandate
>   and Ottoman (as well as possibly 1948 Jordanian and Egyptian) law?

Why stop at Ottoman, why not crusader laws, various Islamic laws, roman laws,
etc. etc.?

>Hamas' power base is in the Gaza Strip, one of the most crowded
>regions around, and a considerably poor place.  It is crowded because
>the Palestinians living there are trapped, many of them in refugee
>camps built in 1948.  Israel is not allowed to move the residents to
>the less crowded West Bank, nor even remove them from their UN refugee

How about moving them back to their homes in pre-1948 Palestine?

>camps.  The Gaza residents are, on average, considerably poorer than
>their West Bank cousins, because of their confines.  As in other, poor
>Arab regions in the Middle East, Islamists are gaining popularity
>because they offer hope. 
>
>
>I believe that Israel does shoulder some blame for the plight of the
>Palestinians.  However I also believe that Israel's neighbours (and
>Iraq, which participated in the 1948 war) also have some blame.  For
>Israel to accept responsibility, the other guilty parties would need
>to accept some of the responsibility as well.  If Israel unilaterally
>claims responsibility, it would end up having taken SOLE responsibility
>for the situation.

Fine with me. But what started the plight in the first place? The UN decided
to give half of their country to a religious minority most of whom lived in
other countries.
>--
>Stewart M. Clamen			Internet:    clamen@cs.cmu.edu
>School of Computer Science		UUCP: 	     uunet!"clamen@cs.cmu.edu"
>Carnegie Mellon University		Phone: 	     +1 412 268 2145
>5000 Forbes Avenue			Fax:	     +1 412 681 5739
>Pittsburgh, PA 15213-3891, USA

Zeyd