From: partha@mse.cse.ogi.edu (R. Parthasarathy)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.tamil,soc.culture.indian
Subject: Re: I HATE TAMILS (2)
Date: 17 Aug 92 19:55:32 GMT
Article-I.D.: ogicse.41552
Distribution: world
Organization: Oregon Graduate Institute, Material Science & Engineering

In article <l8rdg3INN7im@talitha.usc.edu> sramacha@talitha.usc.edu (Sudarshan Ramachandran) writes:
>
> [stuff deleted..]
>
>1. TAMILS ARE EXTREMELY JINGOISTIC ABOUT THEIR REGION:
>
>an "M" (yes, Yum ;-) )in between gets them crazed. These are people
>responsible for spearheading lingua-based seperatist intentions in our
>country. 

	Thanks for posting "others'" perpsective. However, whether it
is right or wrong is to be discussed later. No, Tamils are not the ones
who campaigned for linguistic division of the whole nation. Ever heard
of Potti Sriramulu? He was a Telugu speaking man. He fasted to death
demanding a state based on Telugu language. Jawaharlal Nehru, who until
then opposed such a division, decided to give in - AndhraPradesh was
formed from the erstwhile "Madras state". That Tamil Nadu formed based
on Tamil language was only a consequence. Not all Tamilians, but a group
of men under EVR demanded a Dravida Nadu from the British even before
our independence. Such a state was supposed to consist of the four southern
states. [source: MJ Akbar's "India the Siege Within].

So ask your friends to read a little about south indian history
too to improve their perspectives.

>By an outright rejection of Hindi, they destroy a convenient channel
>of communication running through the nation. 

I think there is a misunderstanding here. Tamilians are not haters of
any language. It is the imposition that they are against. Professor Anna
Durai said in the Indian Parliament once that an arithmetic majority
(for Hindi speaking people) alone should not be considered, but also
its geographical distribution. If there had been distribution of Hindi
speaking islands amidst other linguistic regions through out India,
there would have been some validity in maintaining Hindi as a national
language for all purposes.  This "we are majority, let the minorities
live at our mercy" syndrome is killing our nation. People have to
realize that there is no such thing as "a majority" in India in reality.
One can make any type of combination to show a majority. But in reality
we are a nation of large minorities. If people have the necessity to
learn a language for their survival, they'll do it on their own. We are
already having problems in Tamil Nadu with people feeling inferior if
they talk in Tamil. We are trying our best to eradicate this inferiority
complex. At this time we don't want to be dominated by any other language
for some time. We have our problems. "Others" will not realize it and
will not give a damn either. So let us clean out our backyards first.

>And they support an international
>terrorist organization, i guess,  because "TAMIL" is a part of its name.
>
People have to come closer to take a look. They really don't know how
many Tamils support terrorist organizations because of the word "Tamil".
I am not surprised at this attitude because it comes from people who
think "Madras" is one small region in the "south" with some tongue twisting
"Madrasi" languages, who wear dhotis, paint their foreheads with stripes
and act clumsy on everything.

>Take the Telugus for instance.  Their language happens to be widest spoken 
>in the South. But this doesn't stop them from accepting Hindi so sportingly, 
>and more important, without violence.
>
Looks like they haven't gone much into the south. Telugus have been ruled
by the Congress for a majority of their time. Until Congress ruled Tamil
Nadu, Hindi was being taught in schools. Also Hindi is spoken in Muslim
dominated areas in Andhra Pradesh like Hyderabad, Machlipatnam other
regions where Muslims ruled ages ago. Try talking in Hindi in rural
AndhraPradesh. You'll get the same response as when talking in Tamil
in Bihar.

>Take the Kannadigas for instance. Ask them a question in Tamil, they will
>answer back in Tamil. Talk to them in Hindi, and they'll try to talk back
>in the same tongue. 
>
Is that right? How many Kannadigas have you guys seen? Bangalore is not
all of Karnataka. Remember that. Northern Kannadigas speak in Marathi too.
Pamini Sultans ruled almost all over Karnataka for centuries. Mysore was
ruled by Tippu Sultan and Hyder Ali. As mentioned earlier, wherever Muslims
have ruled, people have been influenced more by north Indian culture
and language. I am not surprised that the average urban Kannadiga is 
tolerant to Hindi. Do you guys know that "Urdu" originated in the
Deccan region? It was called "Dhakni" before it took its final shape.
As far as we are concerned Hindia is a language coming from a far away place
in India which is geographically concentrated on the other end of 
the nation from us. It is totally different from our language. Asking us
to show interest in it because it suits some northerners, sounds very
arrogant to us. So ask these "others" to understand our perspectives too.
Will you like it if a Mandarin Chinese guys comes to you and asks you
something in Mandarin and complains that you don't reply him in that
language even though it is spoken by the majority of the people on earth?
After all, it is spoken by the majority, so every one in the world should
learn it. It is for the good of the whole world. Shall we all convert to
Christianity and go to church because it is the religion of the majority.
Or shall we all convert to Islam, because in the future probably it
will become the largest religion? The same logic applies for langauge too.

>But why are these Tamils so rigid ? Why can't they accept anything that
>doesn't spell T-A-M-I-L. "
>
Why can't the UP,Bihar and Madhya Pradeshis accept anything that doesn't
spell "H-I-N-D-I"?

>2. TAMILS ARE FANATICS:
>
>"What else would you call such a group ?  Which has people who would burn 
>themselves just because a *film actor* did something or didn't do something. 

Why are people killing each other in the name of religion up north? We
have Muslims living in Tamil Nadu too. But we didn't cut each other's 
throat during independence. How come there are frequent Hindu-Muslim
riots up north? Aren't these guys fanatics too? They are fighting
each other for the deeds of their ancestors? Why do millions go naked
during Kubh Mela and dip themselves in the filthiest of rivers? Aren't
they fanatics too? Those who live in glass houses try not throwing stones
on others.

>Which has among its followers, men  with cyanide around their necks."
>
I just checked around my neck. Thank God, I don't have a cynide capsule
around it. Tell your friends that cynide capsule culture exists among
the LTTE terrorists who belong to SriLanka. If they want to carry cynide
on their necks, that's their pleasure. We, the Indian Tamils have to
survive and eke out a livelihood. Your friends have no right to complain
about westerners when they assume India to be full of snake charmers,
cows, naked fakirs, kings and tigers. These guys have almost the same
perpective about their fellow countrymen.

>Non-Tamils form their opinions based on such portrayals. (Maybe it is similar
>to the Americans' view of India - "Do you still travel only on Camel backs ?")
>
Very aptly said.

>3. TAMILS HAVE A GREAT CULTURE BUT ...
>
>"... but how will others know about it unless they stop propagating it in
>Tamil alone."
>
Every state in India has rules and laws demanding the people to know the
language of their soils. Go to Maharashtra or Karnataka or any other state.
Only now Jayalalitha has made it compulsory for everyone domiciled in Tamil
Nadu to strictly learn Tamil. And, she is very much right about it. Others
are doing much more than we do. But they are doing it silently and getting
away with it.

>----------------------------------------
>Now suppose these have been the observed characteristics of another 
>linguistic / cultural group.
>
>What opinion would we form ???
>
>Thanks to all of you who shared your opinions on the subject.
>Special thanks to the following for mailing their opinions:
>
>Shirdi Prem      Amruth    Ranbir Singh     B.G.Mahesh
>Chandra          Bapcha    Ron Hira.        Arasu
>
Thanks you ignorant lot.

>I'll soon post a summary.
>
>
>To Continue ....

I am getting tired of these views. When will it all end?

Partha sarathy
Newsgroups: soc.culture.tamil,alt.culture.kerala