From: nsmca@acad3.alaska.edu
Newsgroups: sci.environment
Subject: Re: Sheep in Organizations
Date: 25 Dec 92 11:23:26 GMT
Article-I.D.: acad3.1992Dec25.032326.1
Distribution: na
Organization: University of Alaska Fairbanks

In article <1992Dec25.074739.19527@meteor.wisc.edu>, stvjas@meteor.wisc.edu (Stephen Jascourt) writes:
> In article <JMC.92Dec24180245@SAIL.Stanford.EDU> jmc@cs.Stanford.EDU writes:
>>In article <58002@dime.cs.umass.edu> yodaiken@chelm.cs.umass.edu (victor yodaiken) writes:
>>
>>   In article <JMC.92Dec23184831@SAIL.Stanford.EDU> jmc@cs.Stanford.EDU writes:
>>   >is unfortunate that so much land in the West is in the hands of the
>>   >Federal Government.  The Federal Government should auction off 3/4
>>   >of its land in the Western states including Alaska.
>>
>>   To what end? Instead the government should start acting to preserve the
>>   property of the general public, instead of allowing it to be degraded for
>>   the profit of a few well connected welfare ranchers, miners,
>>   loggers, and tourist concessionaires.
>>
>>   Statist? Your logical deductions are not truth preserving.
>>
>>Well, Yodaiken wants to keep the land in Government hands, and he
>>regards people who might buy the land as "a few well connected welfare
>>ranchers, miners, loggers, and tourist concessionaires."  That's
>>pretty statist.  Also his posting is as close to a howl as we commonly
>>get on Usenet.
>>--
>>John McCarthy, Computer Science Department, Stanford, CA 94305
> 
> In a land as rich in natural resources and poor in infrastructure as Alaska,
> Yodaiken is probably correct in anticipating what the results of private land
> ownership will be -- massive environmental destruction to exploit natural
> resources. There certainly is a good deal of precedent for this. Perhaps
> McCarthy thinks such an outcome would be a desirable result.
> 
> Note: I will be out of town until Jan 6; I might or might not get to read
> news while I am gone, so please e-mail followups as well as posting (so I can
> respond).
> 
> Stephen Jascourt   stvjas@meteor.wisc.edu

Well let us in Alaska decide the fate of our lands. Let us have the same
oportunity to make our fortunes. We just might suprise you on how it can be
done without dystroying the environment.. 
What I started with was that the people from outside of Alasa do not respect
our rights of self determination. And maybe the people outside of Alaska might
enjoy doing what they have been doing to Alaska.. I doubt that anyone would
like it if someone decided to condemn and make a preserve the land that they
have been hunting, fishing, and using for many centuries (in come cases that
is).  Basically resay what I haev said in the past, clean your own house
before you even try to clean mine..

I know that there has been many precendences for mass exploitation, but all
that is happening is locking the land up so that no one can use it, other than
a select few, congressmembers and their cronies.. Its interesting to note that
in most of the mining operations that I know on rivers that the miners most
times return the water to the river cleaner than it was when they got it..
Maybe not as good as the EPA standards, but most of those standards are pure
bull and made up by some scientist who generally has no knowledge of the rivers
they are making standards for..  Also the only people who will benefit for
locking the land up will be the large oil companies. As it is we generally can
not sell our oil, gas, coal, copper and such to anyone but who the US Gov says
to, and at the price that they set.. If anyone complains especially about oil,
the person is declared a traitor to the national interest.,..
So basically what is to happen is that Alaska will be raped and pillaged, but
not by individuals, but by the FED and thier favorite butt buddies..
Michael Adams alias Ghost Wheel/Morgoth NSMCA@acad3.alaska.edu
From: curry@hplred.HPL.HP.COM (Bo Curry)
Date: Tue, 29 Dec 1992 22:25:12 GMT
Subject: Re: Development policies
Organization: Hewlett-Packard Laboratories, Palo Alto, CA