From: cwm54@cas.org ()
Subject: Re: Marxism (was Re: Pessimism
Organization: Chemical Abstracts Service, Columbus, Ohio
Date: Tue, 29 Sep 1992 15:05:48 GMT

In article <1992Sep27.043707.12309@gagme.chi.il.us> barnhart@gagme.chi.il.us (Mr Aaron Barnhart) writes:
>This is in reply to cwm54@cas.org (), who wrote:
>:
>:      In a capitalist society there are always going to be fewer jobs
>:     than workers. It is the nature of competition. If I "pull myself
>:     up by my own bootstraps" I necessarily displace someone else down
>:     to my previous position. When I open a restaurant someone else
>:     goes out of business because there are only so many dollars to be
>:     spent on entertainment. These are the cold hard facts. But you NEVER
>:     hear those with a voice explain this reality. This is the core of
>:     the problem.
>
>[... and:]
>:
>:        In short if everyone in this country has a college education
>:      then college grads will be cleaning toilets and sweeping streets,
>:      and guess who that will be. Until Americans admit that because of
>:      our economic system(I make no judgements on the right or wrong of
>:      it),"the poor will always be with us" and because of racism the poor
>:      will always be disproportinately black; and poverty breeds violence.
>:      I don't see americans having the will or ability to understand these
>:      cause and effect relationships.If everyone on the welfare roles was
>:      "trained", there would be no work for them.( Why can't we be honest?)
>
>
>It's very hard to say to someone like you, Carlyle, who obviously
>accepts the Marxist outlook on these things as the closest to telling
>it like it is that in fact it ain't.


    I think of myself as more of a democratic socialist in the mode of
> some western European countries. Have your capitalism but with socialist
  underpinning. When ten percent of the people control ninety percent of
  the wealth,I have problems with that. Particularly when very few of those
  people look like me. Capitalism is neither blind nor objective but even
  if it were should one be rewarded so disproportionately based on genetic
  traits ie. natural ability? If the most beautiful people physically were
  afforded privilege by virtue of their beauty this country would be in an
  uproar. likewise, because someone inherits intellect,wealth or white skin
  should they be able to live in suburbia while those who work hard or want
  to work hard live in cardboard boxes,without health insurance or political
  power? I'm willing to sacrifice so that LESS FORTUNATE people have at
  least a decent minimal standard of living.


>I passionately believe, as does any good parent over in Japan, that
>if today's kids are all educated it will *create* jobs.  That's the one
>reason to hang onto Jack Kemp with all his shortcomings, unseemly
>affiliations, and conservatism: because he really thinks there's room
>for everybody to be their best (at least philosophically this is his
>message).  I do too.


    See my previous post. But educate me. If thousands of qualified,competent
    people cannot find work, how does having more educated people CREATE
    jobs,particularly in a mature economy? The logic escapes me. I am a
    chemist and though I make a decent living I cannot in good conscious
    suggest black youths get into it. White chemist are out of work and as
    a white professor showed me in college from the American Chemical Society,
    blacks have twice whatever the unemployment rate for white chemist for
    equivalent education and NEVER make on average what their white counterparts
    make and NEVER on average are promoted as rapidly. If there are more nurses
    will more people get sick? If more engineers will more people buy cars?


>
>You *are* making "judgments on the right or wrong of ... our economic
>system" because you don't believe in capitalism tenet of expansion,
>in fact hold strong to the opposite view, which is that the proles
>only have so much to take, and if one swipes a job, why, some other
>poor slob is out his.


	 Not bad.  But I'm not entirely against capitalism. I just
     have problems with the disparity of wealth. There IS only so much
>    to take otherwise the deficit wouldn't be such a big issue.


>That's not to take away the insult of life as it is.  Just to say
>that we don't all call that view "reality," it is actually what you
>first called it, pessimism.


	      Cannot it be both? That is "reality" makes me pessimistic?
	Sorry, there I go with cause and effect again. You guys aren't
	big on that.


>Preeeech.  ("And who is one's own?" said Jesus.  It's your neighbor,
>regardless of skin, money, gender, or otherwise.)

	Funny how we can be discriminated against collectively without much
	ado, but we aren't to address our displeasure collectively. Funnier
	still is how we try to be your neighbor in body and soul but you run
>       to a more distant suburb. Funny about this neighbor bit,huh?


>*That's* thw word we can all use, man.  Good luck wherever you're
>going, and stay closer to your inspiration than your "reality," cuz
>I think it'll take you a long way.  Just my view.
>
>


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	    These are my views only and not those of CAS.