From: tlynch@cco.caltech.edu (Timothy W. Lynch)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.startrek.current
Subject: Re: First Duty (Spoilers)
Date: 13 Apr 92 21:49:47 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: California Institute of Technology, Pasadena

goodwin@orionsci (Ben Goodwin) writes:
>In article <1992Apr9.012205.17574@cco.caltech.edu> tlynch@cco.caltech.edu (Timothy W. Lynch) writes:
>>goodwin@orionsci.uucp (Ben Goodwin) writes:

>>>Joshua whatshisname
>>>isn't ready for the maneuver.  Wesley stated at sometime that Josh had
>>>been shakey as of late and yet Wesley decides to risk it all on a stupid
>>>childish prank.  
>>
>>Wrong in some respects.  Wes never said that Josh was shaky; Locarno did
>>when he tried to put the blame on him.  I believe Josh being not-quite-ready
>>for the stunt was established, but not the "problems" Locarno tried to
>>allude to.

>I seem to remember them agreeing that Josh had been showing signs of 
>cold feet, or of not being ready.  I might misremember, but in the
>scene where the fantastic four decided to blame it all on Josh, they
>all agreed that he had been acting a little off of late.  

Watch the scene again.  Locarno virtually stares Hajar and Sito down until they
agree with him.  Hardly a "yeah, he definitely wasn't ready", I think.

>Maybe that
>was just Locarno trying to make excuses.  But it seemed to me that in
>that scene they made it somewhat clear that Josh had been having some
>problems and that they all acknowledged it.

I don't think so.  I think he may have been unsure of himself and nervous, but
it doesn't seem at all clear to me that he had, in Locarno's words, "difficul-
ties".

>>>I couldn't buy this characterization of Wesley.  
>>
>>You mean he's a human being and an occasionally brash young kid?

>I won't reply to the 4 or 5 more times you use the same tired line.  

Just trying to get the point across.

>Just
>here, just once.  Wesley has served on board a starship for 4 years and
>has been around the best officers in the fleet.  He has screwed up, hasn't
>everyone, but he has been an honest person.  everytime he has gotten in
>trouble, he told the truth and got help from those who could help.  Even
>in that nanite thing, once he knew there was a problem he came clean.

All agreed.

>Now all of a sudden this mature whiz kid succumbs to pressure and attempts
>a dangerous maneuver which gets someone killed.  

You left out an important word, IMO.  "succumbs to PEER pressure" would be
more precise.  Sure, Wes has never done this before--but from all appearances,
Wes has never been in a sea of people his age before either.  Teenagers do a 
lot of stupid things to fit in and to be liked, whether they're brilliant or
no, whether they're honest or no.

>>>The leader of nova squadron was a jerk.  Who would follow him?  
>>
>>Evidently a great many people.  I wouldn't have wanted to serve under
>>him myself, but he seemed to capture a certain charisma that I could see
>>affecting a lot of people.  Hey, I wouldn't be very interested in serving 
>>under a young Kirk *either*.

>Four people followed that cadet.  Evidently a great many? huh?

It's implied that Locarno's been leader of the squadron for a while, and
it hardly was *always* that group of five.  He personally led probably 
double that, and the team were gods to the rest of the campus.  I think that
yes, "evidently a great many people" would follow him.

>Kirk bashing again.  

Saying I'd rather not serve under a young Kirk is bashing Kirk?

Ben, enough's enough.  I've been arguing consistently that Kirk is not
perfect, and has a few significant flaws.  You seem to interpret that as
"I hate Kirk, kill'im-kill'im-kill'im, slaverslaverslaver..."  It's tiresome.

>And, one more little note (note: non canon, please ignore!) in Kobyashi
>Maru, I think it was brought forth in Chekov's story that Kirk was an
>excellent cadet, an *innovative* leader with charisma.  Please don't
>follow this up with a "So wasn't Locarno" post. :)

Sorry.  It seems that Locarno was *also* an innovative leader with lots of
charisma.  Besides, you're strengthening my point; if I remember the novel
correctly, Chekov's hero-worship of Kirk made him do a lot of rash and 
foolhardy moves that got him in big trouble.  Sound like any TNG-time 
academy cadets we know?

Tim Lynch