HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: snggab01@uctvax.uct.ac.za
Newsgroups: soc.culture.african
Subject: Re: Murder is OK in South Africa
Date: 9 Nov 92 09:36:07 +0200
Organization: University of Cape Town

In article <1992Nov7.125430.17121@hippo.ru.ac.za>, ccfj@hippo.ru.ac.za (F. Jacot Guillarmod) writes:
> In <2767.2AFAB8E4@catpe.alt.za> Steve.Hayes@p5.f22.n7101.z5.fidonet.org (Steve Hayes) writes:
> 
>>On <04 Nov 1992 20:40> snggab01@uctvax.uct.ac.za said to All :
> 
>> suaz>Power comes from the barrel of a gun.(No prizes for guessing 
>> suaz>who said that)
> 
>>Eddie Webb?
> 
> Chris Hani?  Saddam Hussein?  George Bush?  Eugene Terreblanche?  Maggie
> Thatcher?  Die groot krokodil?
Sorry,I thought you guys all knew.It was Mao Tse Tung.
----------------------------------------------
University of Cape Town, South Africa 
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Power comes from the barrel of a gun.(No prizes for guessing who said that)

---------------------------------------------------------------------------


Newsgroups: soc.culture.african
From: ccfj@hippo.ru.ac.za (F. Jacot Guillarmod)
Subject: Re: Cultural Exclusivity
Organization: Rhodes University, Grahamstown, South Africa
Date: Mon, 9 Nov 1992 09:54:01 GMT

In <9331@blue.cis.pitt.edu.UUCP> pmmst8+@pitt.edu (Paul M Mweene) writes:

>In article <1992Nov8.184603.17618@ucthpx.uct.ac.za> brendt@dip2.ee.uct.ac.za (Brendt Wohlberg) writes:
>>Ah, I was wondering when your favourite topic would come up again. What is this,
>>the third or the fourth time? Last time you started spouting about this 
>>someone (F. Jacot Guillarmod if I recall correctly) posted the e-mail addresses
>>of a few black students/staff members at Rhodes University. Did you try to
>>contact them? If so, perhaps you'd be good enough to tell us why they don't
>>contribute to s.c.a. In addition, I e-mailed you with an offer to help you
>>contact black students at UCT. Funnily enough, no reply.


>UAs consistent as at any other time since you started posting. Your ethnic inclination being your guiding principles. I hope you did not think I would stopp 
>fighting your apartheid and racism......

>We Africans have a saying that "The crime does not rot..." If you think the
>passage of time will solve "your" problems, you are wronng.

The passage of time has definitely not changed Makalas point of view.
Here is another extract from my archives:

================================
Newsgroups: soc.culture.african
Subject: Re: Ostracise the Racist South Africans

In <2618@blue.cis.pitt.edu.UUCP> pmmst8+@pitt.edu (Paul M Mweene) writes:

>While we do not have the power to bar these people from every news group we can
>do our own "little" damage by either ignoring them or developing kill files which would eliminate all submissions from South Africa. This would deprive them of they joy they derive from subscribing to this news group. We can do this and we should do it other wise we are no better than the many people who actively co-
>habit with these people.

What a fantastic idea!  Then when black South Africans do post
something to this newsgroup, nobody will see it.  You can then carry on
pretending that there is some sort of discrimination about the use of
networking facilities in this country.

Makes a _lot_ of sense to me :-(

Incidentally, last time you posted something similar, I asked you (via a
mail message) to contact:

ccff@hippo.ru.ac.za (Mr M.B.F. Fulani)
cctj@hippo.ru.ac.za (Mr T. Jacobs)
ccce@hippo.ru.ac.za (Mr C. Edwards)
ccms@hippo.ru.ac.za (Mr M.O. Sha)

by email and to ask why they don't post anything to s.c.a.  Did you
bother trying something as elementary as this?  Or would this have
interfered with your prejudices?
======================================

-- 
  F.F. Jacot Guillarmod     PO  Box 94     \        |     ccfj@hippo.ru.ac.za
  Computing Centre       Grahamstown 6140   \      /     +27 461 22023 xt 284
  Rhodes University        South Africa      ;___*/   33 18 30 S | 26 31 45 E
Newsgroups: soc.culture.african
From: brendt@dip2.ee.uct.ac.za (Brendt Wohlberg)
Subject: Re: Cultural Exclusivity
Date: Mon, 9 Nov 92 16:55:53 GMT
Organization: University of Cape Town
X-Newsreader: Tin 1.1 PL4

pmmst8+@pitt.edu (Paul M Mweene) writes:
: In article <1992Nov8.184603.17618@ucthpx.uct.ac.za> brendt@dip2.ee.uct.ac.za (Brendt Wohlberg) writes:
: >Ah, I was wondering when your favourite topic would come up again. What is this,
: >the third or the fourth time? Last time you started spouting about this 
: >someone (F. Jacot Guillarmod if I recall correctly) posted the e-mail addresses
: >of a few black students/staff members at Rhodes University. Did you try to
: >contact them? If so, perhaps you'd be good enough to tell us why they don't
: >contribute to s.c.a. In addition, I e-mailed you with an offer to help you
: >contact black students at UCT. Funnily enough, no reply.
: 
: 
: UAs consistent as at any other time since you started posting. Your ethnic inclination being your guiding principles.

Very amusing coming from you of all people.

:I hope you did not think I would stopp fighting your apartheid and racism......
: 
: We Africans have a saying that "The crime does not rot..." If you think the
: passage of time will solve "your" problems, you are wronng.
:  
: A person is naive and ignorant who thinks that the loaf of bread tastes different from its crumbs.

All very eloquent I'm sure, but this doesn't seem to have much bearing on the
topic. Could it be an attempt to conceal the fact that you can't explain
why you didn't make any effort to contact any of the people mentioned?

: >
: >You've never told us what your field of study is Paul. I hope it isn't 
: >psychology.
: 
: It seems to me as if you think that we agreed to fraternise.....
: My field of study is none of your buisness. I have never asked for yours so
: don't ask for mine

Terribly unfriendly of you (of course, you don't have to ask for mine).

______________________________________
Brendt Wohlberg                       |
Electronic Engineering Department     |
University of Cape Town               |
e-mail: brendt@dip1.ee.uct.ac.za      |
        whlbre01@uctvax.uct.ac.za     |
        bwohlberg@eleceng.uct.ac.za   |
______________________________________|

Newsgroups: soc.culture.african
From: heidi@ucthpx.uct.ac.za (Heidi de Wet)
Subject: Re: Millions of girls brutally mutilat
Date: Fri, 13 Nov 92 10:12:05 GMT
Organization: Dept of Elec Eng, UCT

megana@hpcuhe.cup.hp.com (Megan Adams) writes:
>On a side note, I will assert that if this cultural practice of genital
>mutilation has any validity, then it will continue when it is no longer
>abusively enforced against small girls. If those who support this practice
>*really* believed in it, they wouldn't need to force it on powerless 
>children. They could rely on their powers of persuasion on adult women
>who can make choices. 

While I agree broadly with your article, I think this is a straw man
(straw person?)  Since the goal of infibulation appears to be to
prevent any possibility of sexual intercourse before marriage, it's
hardly applicable to adult women.

-- 
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Heidi de Wet                                 >>>  FREE  TSAFENDAS  <<<
heidi@ucthpx.uct.ac.za                       and give him back his job
Newsgroups: soc.culture.african
From: imofoke1@cc.swarthmore.edu (Ivan Mofokeng)
Subject: Re: Zulu word
Reply-To: imofoke1@cc.swarthmore.edu (Ivan Mofokeng)
Organization: Swarthmore College
Date: Fri, 6 Nov 1992 18:24:15 GMT

ccfj@hippo.ru.ac.za (F. Jacot Guillarmod) writes:
> In <1d5ltbINN2jd@chervil.csv.warwick.ac.uk> phudv@csv.warwick.ac.uk (Mr R B Birkby) writes:
> 
> >Can anyone tell me what the Zulu word Thundeka or Thundeha is in English.
> 
> My far from authoritative Readers Digest Multi-Language Dictionary
> doesn't cover that one... closest is -thandekayo == loveable affectionate
> likeable.  Nothing similar in Xhosa, either.  Maybe somebody from Natal
> could shed more light?
> 
I think the name in question here is Thandeka which means loveable one in
zulu.

phoka

internet: mofokeng@cs.swarthmore.edu
From: pmmst8+@pitt.edu (Paul M Mweene)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.african
Subject: Re: Millions of girls brutally mutilat
Date: 7 Nov 92 02:17:32 GMT
Organization: University of Pittsburgh

In article <1992Nov6.152622.45@acuvax.acu.edu> ltt75326@acuvax.acu.edu writes:
>Could we please hear some outspoken Africans speak to us about this
>custom of theirs some more?
>L.T.

I think your concern can be indulged (see my first posting on this issue), if
you want to know why it happens, you will probably be told. If you demand to
know, then you will know nothing. I have insisted all along that the position
is not about right or wrong, but what if any right foreigners have to make
demands for information, or change. 

We ourselves shall address our own problems and appropriatetly attend to
them.  We can not be expected to appease or entertain the whims of those
for whom it is none of their buisness. It all begun with certain South
Africans saying this or that is barbaric and MUST be stopped! From a white

South African of all the people.


Makala
>
From: imofoke1@cc.swarthmore.edu (Ivan Mofokeng)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.african
Subject: Re: Millions of girls brutally mutilat
Date: 6 Nov 92 00:40:15 GMT
Reply-To: imofoke1@cc.swarthmore.edu (Ivan Mofokeng)
Organization: Swarthmore College

Chowning@acuvax.acu.edu (Richard Chowning) writes:

> I am not sure that I can tell yet (from my experience) that the majority of 
> the African women in societies where clitoridectomy rite of passage is 
> practice have come to even a intellectual acceptance that the practice is 
> wrong.  However, Philip, you are right it would be hard to change even if 
> they had come to the conclusion that they needed to.  It not only concerns 
> peer pressure and expectations in this earthly realm.  The rite of passage, 
> as all things in life, but especially this is bound up in worldview and 
> religion.  There is pressure and expectation from the unseen realm as well.

although i do not seek to undermine the point of views of the million of
people who read this bulletin, i am rather getting annoyed at the manner in
which people of other cultures, in particular white people, seem to
constant criticize and undermine the practises of other cultures.  i will
not claim to know all the reasons behind these practises, but i am sure that
out there are people out there who can explain and justify them.  it is
unfortunate that some people criticise things without seeking to understand
them, it is even more unfortunate that in discussing their biases they never
bother to highlight the virtues of the practises they are critcising.

why is it that africans always have to change and define their behaviour
according to the western standards?  in particular, why is it that you
(white people) are so bent on changing our culture?  is this an ongoing
attempt to colonise us (*our minds*) even after so many colonisers have left
africa?

maybe you should start looking at ways of redressing the wrongs you have
done in the past and reshaping you own societies to a point where you will
be comfortable living in them without having to tear down the veru fabric of
other societies.

ta!

phoka
From: pmmst8+@pitt.edu (Paul M Mweene)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.african
Subject: Re: Absence of black posters from SA
Date: 13 Nov 92 12:16:14 GMT
Organization: University of Pittsburgh

In article <1dpvnaINNptl@pacific.cs.ubc.ca> shaze@cs.ubc.ca (Scott Hazelhurst) writes:
>
>Please don't rise to this flame bait. Go for a walk, have a cup
>of tea, beer, valium, whatever.... and read the next article.
>Venting your anger on the net just feeds into more 
>rubbish  like Mr Mweene's last articel (yes I know I'm a 
>   and engineering

If you don't want to burn then don't start the fire. If you think you will have
the luxury of applying a little heat on others without the possibilty of retri
bution you are wrong. My Philosophy is two eyes for an eye. That way you, not
just me, will also go blind....
As for my postings being rubbish, what do you think I think of yours...?

>
> It
>is a problem that only white South Africans are posting since
>the experience that black students and staff have of
>institutions like Rhodes, UCT and Wits is not always the same
>that white students and staff have.

 See what I was saying? This is ridiculous rubbish. I came to this country
having never even used email in my life. Then some one informed me about 
newsnet and within a day I was up and going...Is this another way of stating 
that certain things are too far beyond the ability of blacks? This is nothing
but veiled Klan talk.

> Part of the reason is that
>there are some racists (of different types and hues) in
>these places, there are some people indifferent, there are some
>people....., and just because the objective conditionds are 
>just bloody difficult.

You probably think, posting from Canada as you do, that you might be free of
the skeptisms that normally greet boer postings, but posting like this don't
help your cause. You are always on their side, apologising or making excuses
for them. We are not surprised by this, the British and the Americans (and all
the western countries) have always been in their laager. You are just proving
that the crumb tastes exactly like the loaf from which it came......These are
the ethnic proclivities we talk about.   
  
> It would be great to have some black 
>South African input on the issue. Also, universities as a whole
>are going under transformation, and it would be great if 
>someone (eg CSM) could fill us in on some of the discussion.

All this wont placate us. Why should we indulge Boer intransigence? What you are
telling us is that the Boers will remove the pain slowly? Forget it

. 
>Please let's take this seriously and be open to criticism and
>ignore the personal stuff.
>
If you live in a glass house don't throw stones. If you are thin skinned then
take care of your hide and stay out of the storm. Didn't you open you diatribe
by launching a personal attack on me, in which you advised me to take beer or 
valium? Why are you whining even before you are hit? He who lives by the gun
himself shall die by the gun.
>
>   Scott Hazelhurst    


Makala
Newsgroups: soc.culture.african
From: brendt@dip2.ee.uct.ac.za (Brendt Wohlberg)
Subject: Re: Absence of black posters from SA
Date: Fri, 13 Nov 92 11:43:12 GMT
Organization: University of Cape Town
X-Newsreader: Tin 1.1 PL4

pmmst8+@pitt.edu (Paul M Mweene) writes:
 
: I talked to my fiends Kaiser Modise and Jabulani Tambo who go the Univer
: sity of Cape Town. They tell me it is the most racist place you could
: ever go to. A black man had better watch his step or he will be gone.

A short call to student records reveals that there are no such students at
UCT. Not surprising really when one considers the obvious falsehoods in
your posting. I'm actually surprised even you thought people would believe it.

Please don't make yourself look even more stupid by trying to claim that you
lied about their names to protect them. Your best way out of this one is:
a) Claim someone else faked the posting 
b) Claim it was all a joke
c) Stop posting and lie low for a few months (as you've done in the past when
   you've been caught posting blatant lies)

______________________________________
Brendt Wohlberg                       |
Electronic Engineering Department     |
University of Cape Town               |
e-mail: brendt@dip1.ee.uct.ac.za      |
        whlbre01@uctvax.uct.ac.za     |
        bwohlberg@eleceng.uct.ac.za   |
______________________________________|

Newsgroups: soc.culture.african
From: sargeant@rchland.vnet.ibm.com (Winslow Sargeant)
Subject: Re: RAIN (Pula thata) in Southern Africa
Date: Mon, 09 Nov 1992 13:34:35 GMT
Disclaimer: This posting represents the poster's views, not necessarily those of IBM
Organization: IBM Rochester

In article <2783.2AFC1BC8@catpe.alt.za>, Steve.Hayes@p5.f22.n7101.z5.fidonet.org (Steve Hayes) writes:
|> On <05 Nov 1992 21:58> Winslow Sargeant said to All :
|> 
|>  WS>  I have just heard that rain is once again falling in Southern 
|>  WS>Africa.  Rain           
|>  WS>   has been falling 2-3 times a week in Botswana. A tornado, I 
|>  WS>was told, was
|>  WS>   reported to have touch down in South Africa.  This is good 
|>  WS>news (not the
|>  WS>    tornado), rain is once again falling (el nino is dead).
|> 
|> Not much is falling here. Not even the weeds are growing.
|> 
|>  WS>  Winslow Sargeant( Formerly Winslow of Madison!)
|> 
|> Welcome back!
|> 
|> 
	Steve, I have been in touch with various people in Botswana and I was	
 told that rain has been plentiful.  I would look forward to seeing all the
 green (trees etc.) when I visit Joberg and Gaberone in December.  			


 Winslow 								

 internet address: sargeant@rchvmx.vnet.ibm.com	


 I have never been away.  Since Aaron Barnhart does such a good job posting news,
 I have been strictly an observer.
Newsgroups: soc.culture.african
From: montas@stable.ecn.purdue.edu (Hubert J Montas)
Subject: Re: male circumcision (was Re: Female Circumcision)
Organization: Purdue University Engineering Computer Network
Date: Sun, 8 Nov 1992 05:06:23 GMT

In article <BxDKs4.B8E@usenet.ucs.indiana.edu> kautaj@silver.ucs.indiana.edu (kauta) writes:
>In article <1992Nov8.013724.14234@noose.ecn.purdue.edu> montas@stable.ecn.purdue.edu (Hubert J Montas) writes:
>
>[stuff deleted]
>
>>        Anyways, here's a topic we can discuss, male circumcision.
>> [...] Anybody against male circumcision?
>> [...] If one had asked me at thirteen or so whether I wanted to be
>>circumcised, I would have said no I think.
>> [...] Anyways, it happened when I was young enough, and, well, as far as
>> I know, there hasn't been negative consequences.
>>
>>        H.
>
>What you are saying really does not support the arguments of your people. 
                                                              ^^^^^^^^^^^^
          Who do you think are my people?

>You say:
>
>1) You were circumcised when you were a baby.
>2) You would not have accepted this to be done unto you if you were 13.
>
>My view is that babies do not have rights at all anywhere in the world!
>If you (or anybody else) think baby boys enjoy this circumcision and its long 
>aftermath (days for the wound to heal, well after the aesthesia has stopped 
>working), then you must have another think coming. Indeed, if you even 
>suggest (as others have done) that somehow the element of choice exists in 
>the west as far as circumcision goes then you must be crazy!!
>
>J.K.

             It is clear from what I wrote, that I didn't have the choice.
Furthermore, I never said that It was an enjoyable experience, but only that
I don't remember it well enough to assess the pain it may have caused me.
I nevertheless agree with you to the effect that babies do not have rights
anywhere on this planet. Even minors have only a few rights! With respect
to circumcision by choice, I've never heard of it either. Some cultures do
it to 12 year old boys (Jewish I think), but there is no element of choice
involved. 
             Anyways, I don't know if you have been circumcised, but if not,
I'd like to have your opinion on it. Do you feel any different from a circum-
cised man? Do you think that circumcision could have had a positive impact
on you or some part of your life? etc...

            H.


Newsgroups: soc.culture.african,soc.culture.afghanistan,soc.culture.arabic
From: lopi@di.unipi.it (Lopi)
Subject: PostCards wanted
Summary: postcard wanted from your countries
Keywords: postcard
Organization: Dipartimento di Informatica, Universita' di Pisa
Date: Sat, 7 Nov 1992 11:43:00 GMT

Hello, I'm collecting postcards from everywhere in the world,
Can you send me a postcrd from your country?
I will send you back one from Italy.

Thanks, Fabio

Address is:

		Fabio Lopiano
		Casa dello Studente 
		Piazza San Silvestro 12
			56100 Pisa
			ITALY
From: hsr@eng.cam.ac.uk (Haile Selassie)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.african
Subject: Re: Is racism "for whites only"? they are a
Date: 5 Nov 92 14:57:16 GMT
Reply-To: hsr@eng.cam.ac.uk
Organization: University of Cambridge

Hey are you educated Mweene, by the way? reply
Newsgroups: soc.culture.african
From: 0112wilz@concave.cs.wits.ac.za (Zane Wilson)
Subject: Re: Is racism "for whites only"? they are after my brother
Organization: Computer Science, Wits University
Date: Fri, 6 Nov 1992 09:46:02 GMT

>>Racism is a SYSTEM of predjudice upheld by military and economic power.
>
>>It is clear why NO black man in the whole world has been able to be racist 
>>since Alexander "the great" over threw the last Egyptian Pharaoh.
>
>Oh, so no African state, not even Nigeria, have any military or economic 
>power (and therefore cannot be racist)?  What an indictment of Africa and
>that from an African.

Not a hassle - If I move to Zimbabwe (where blacks have the military and 
political power), I can have as nasty views as I like, and they will never 
be racist. For in this situation, the only people who could ever be racists
(according to Mr Mweene's definition) are the blacks. It is impossible *by 
definition* for a white person in Zimbabwe to be a racist.

Lekka logic there, Paul!

(Ducks under cover from flames thrown by racist blacks)
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Zane Wilson, University of the Witwatersrand, Computer Science, +27 716 3295
Internet: 0112wilz@witsvma.wits.ac.za    Fidonet: Zane Wilson of 5:7101/40.0
Newsgroups: soc.culture.african