HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: jen187@mis.csiro.au (Graham Jenkins +61 6 276 6812)
Subject: Re: leading
Organization: CSIRO ITS
Date: Tue, 29 Sep 92 00:32:38 GMT

In article <1992Sep27.161706.6993@cbnewsj.cb.att.com> rudy@cbnewsj.cb.att.com (avram.r.vener) writes:

>Oh yes, before I forget again... What does TEAM (or TTEAM) stand for?
>

Tellington-Jones Equine Awareness Method.

I've been using bits of it on my endurance horse and
I would claim that my horse (Khalif) has certainly
gained some benefit from it. I know others who would
say the same thing. I would suggest that it's certainly
worth looking into at least.



-- 

|  Graham Jenkins          |  graham.jenkins@its.csiro.au           | 
|  CSIRO                   |  (Commonwealth Scientific & Industrial | 
|  Canberra,  AUSTRALIA    |  Research Organisation)                |
From: C20211@prime-a.plymouth.ac.uk (John Horne)
Newsgroups: rec.equestrian
Subject: Re: Teaching requirements
Date: 5 Oct 92 15:34:38 GMT
Reply-To: equestrians@world.std.com
Organization: BBN news/mail gateway
NNTP-Posting-Host: news.bbn.com

Andy Holt writes :

    > In England, there is no requirement *as such* for qualifications...
    >      [ stuff deleted regarding exams required for teaching]

    > BUT, Riding schools [defined as providing the use of a horse for payment]
    > need a licence from the District Council and they can set conditions
    > which ammount to a requirement for a teaching qualification.

I gather that the requirement is that there must be at least one BHSAI (or
above) working full-time at the yard before a license will be issued. My friend
is/was trying to set up his own yard, and had to sort through these
requirements. A BHSAI is a British Horse Society Assistant Instructor.

I would add that the whole BHS exam system is currently having a bit of a
'shake up' (or is that 'shake down'?). There are (?) new exams being introduced
to replace some of the older ones, whether these become necessary in running a
yard will have to be seen.


John Horne,
Plymouth, UK.
From: karlm@sequent.com (Karl Maerz)
Subject: Re: Trucking/Trailers
Organization: Sequent Computer Systems Inc.
Distribution: rec
Date: Wed, 30 Sep 92 00:47:42 GMT

crj@vax5.cit.cornell.edu writes:
>From experience - don't try to tow with a Dodge!!!  Stick with a Ford or Chevy. 
>Had an '86 Dodge - 350 or whatever Dodge is, 3/4 ton.  A wimp!  Automatic.

From what I hear, the Cummins turbo diesel in the newer Dodge trucks is 
pretty awesome.  Lots of power and very good mileage.  Of course, I'll
never know firsthand since a new anything is off my budget scale...


>Now I have a 3 horse, Moritz (very light), and nothing to tow it with.  I
>ruined our Ford transmission on the 1981, 150 , 4 speed, 1/2 ton pickup.  Had 
>to use third gear on most hills, now pops out of third gear.  

4spd manual or auto?  Personally, I believe a 1/2 ton truck is too light
for most horse trailering applications, especially in hilly/mountainous
country.  Many people use 'em, though.

>Don't those of
>you that are using a standard shift have trouble shifting down - especially
>on hills - without upsetting the balance your horse must maintain?  This neck
>of the woods is very hilly.

Its not all that difficult.  First of all, you don't want to just be
cruising along at, say, 55mph in 4th gear, then simply drop the thing
into 3rd and pop the clutch out.  Not only will you have some extremely
unhappy horses, but you'll soon be replacing the drive train in your
rig if you make a habit of it.  

If I need to downshift for a downhill grade, I first use my brakes to
bring my speed down to something reasonable for the gear I want to
use.  Then I shift to that gear and, *as I let off the clutch*, I
step on the gas to bring the engine rpms up to match the speed
I'm going in the gear I've shifted to.  Make sense?  Hopefully, as 
the clutch engages, the transmission and the engine speeds are synched 
up to make the transition smoothly.  Then back off the gas to let the
engine compression and lower gear ratio do their thing.  No need to jerk 
the hell out of things.  Makes for happy running gear on your truck and
horses who are mereley bracing for decelleration rather than trying to
extricate their heads from the manger wall.

This is not a complicated procedure (despite my rather poor description).
With some practice you can do it very quickly and without much concsious 
thought.

Karl Maerz
karlm@sequent.com

From: kris@hpdmd48.boi.hp.com (kris troxel)
Date: Tue, 29 Sep 1992 15:14:14 GMT
Subject: Re: Equine Genetics Reference Books Wanted!
Organization: Hewlett Packard - Boise, ID
Newsgroups: rec.equestrian

"The Horse" by Evans, Heintz, Van Vleek, and someone else, is one of the
best reference books on equine genetics I have seen. Actually, it is the
single best technical book on horses I have run into. I'm not sure if a
new version has come out yet or not. Each section of this book was written
by one of the aknowledged experts in each field, for example Dr. Evans, of
UC Davis, wrote the section on reproduction, Dr. Heintz, of Cornell, wrote
the section on Digestion and Nutrition.

I will check the publisher this evening and post it tomorrow.

Kris Troxel
Newsgroups: rec.equestrian
From: 6175190@LMSC5.IS.LMSC.LOCKHEED.COM
Subject: Re: 6 Pulling contests
Organization: Lockheed Missiles & Space Company, Inc.
Date: Tue, 6 Oct 92 20:48:12 GMT

My (admittedly limited) experience with watching pulling contests with
draft horses in California is very similar to those expressed below.
However, I saw NO whips anywere at the 2 or 3 Draft horse show's I've
attended.Everyone seemed genuinely fond of their horses and the compe-
tition seem extremely friendly and good humored. I believe the effect
of whipping would cause the horses to lunge and I'm pretty sure the idea
was to have a smooth pull and lunging could disqualify an entry.

In addition to the weight pulling contest, they had log pulling which
involved pulling a pair of long logs through a weaving course marked by
cones with bounderies on the outside. This hit of the show was an "older"
gentleman who hooked up his team stuck his pipe in his mouth and stepped
onto the end of logs and with no obvious signal rode the logs as his team
"effortlessly" wound them through the pattern. I understand, the logging
companies used to show a team the path to take once or twice and the rest
of the day, they'd work on their own. Coming back for a new load after
each delivery. Amazing animals, these horses!

##### STUFF DELETED #####
#
#Many of the drivers seemed fond of their horses, and several would pat
#or stroke the horses during the rest stops in the distance pull.
#
#The horses all seemed very excited about pulling.  They would all trot
#into the arena with this big high-stepping trot, with the driver and
#his flank men racing along behind holding up the harness.  As the horses
#were backed up to attach the, whatcha call it, the big metal piece that
#the traces were attached to (sorry, I don't know anything about harnesses)
#to the sled, they would just be dancing in place, those huge hooves going
#up and down like they were walking on hot coals, all their muscles bunched
#up.  The *instant* the horses heard the "clang!" of the metal thing
#dropping onto the cart pin, they would *LUNGE* forward to start pulling.
#Sometimes the pin didn't connect, and the horses would launch themselves
#practically out of the arena in one jump, dragging all their men
#behind them.  Some horses seemed to be too hyper to be able to coordinate
#their efforts, while other teams were very smooth and efficient.  The
#teams I saw all looked in good flesh, with massive muscles.  I didn't see
#any starved horses.  Maybe that happens only with horses just on the edge
#of a weight class.
#
#A lot of the horses were used for farmwork or logging, outside of the fairs.


--
Halfway round the course, up spoke the noble rider:
 "I fear we must fall back, for she's going like a tiger."
Up spoke the noble horse:  "Ride on, my noble master,
  For we're halfway round the course, and now we'll see who's faster."

Newsgroups: rec.equestrian
From: lbm@avs.com (Linda B. Merims)
Subject: Re: Letting Run Loose
Organization: Advanced Visual Systems Inc.
X-Newsreader: Tin 1.1 PL4
Date: Wed, 30 Sep 1992 22:00:59 GMT
X-Posted-From: phobos.avs.com
NNTP-Posting-Host: sol.ctr.columbia.edu

I'd say, yes, let her run loose, with some BUTs...

1. Horses stabled together don't behave like horses turned out together.
  It is when you get them turned out together that you start to realize
  what "horses are herd animals" means.  This "social thing" is *everything*
  to a horse.  I sometimes think that this and food are the only things
  that really matter to them.

2.If there is any way you can do it, let the other horses get used to
  seeing her around before you turn her out with them.  The ideal method
  is to put her into a paddock right next to the big field (shared fence),
  perhaps with just one other horse for about a week.  They'll accept her
  much more easily when the time comes.

3.Don't leave her alone with them when you introduce her to the herd for
  the first time.  Somebody has to be there to salvage a bad situation.  I'd
  string a line of people between the pasture and that treacherous escape
  route back to the barn.  Maybe somebody else has an opinion on how long
  is long enough before you can feel confident enough to leave, and what
  the "crisis over" signs are.

4.In general, horse herd pecking order "shakes out" according to age.

5.Particularly in a new social configuration, a herd needs to be checked
  at least several times a day to see if somebody's gotten nailed.

If it doesn't work out, getting turned out every other day for a half
hour in an arena isn't so bad.

My two year old filly had been pastured mostly by herself as she grew
up.  I then moved her to another barn.  Rule 2 above was not followed.
When introduced into a band of broodmares, everything was fine for
about 10 minutes.  Then the whole herd took off after her, chasing her
around the pasture.  She headed for the barn in a panic, tried to
jump the fence, hit the top of it, did a tail over head sommersault,
and landed in a stunned heap on her back.  Luckily, there were no injuries.
A week later, after following rule 2, she was reintroduced to the herd
without incident.  Later in her life she became quite a tyrant and
had to be removed from a herd of younger horses for crimes like "MY water!
Nobody drinks but me!"  "MY hay!  All five spaced piles, even
if I never eat it because I'm spending all my time chasing the rest
of you away from it!"  "I go through the gate before you!  Whack!"
She ended up with one other filly of the same age.  Big farms spend a
lot of time getting the social mix right.  It can be a very complex subject.

It sounds like your daughter and Pai are hitting it off well.  No horse is
perfect, and a new horse should be just enough above an owner's
ability to provide continuous challenge, but without danger and fear.

Good luck!

Linda B. Merims








Newsgroups: rec.equestrian
From: 6175190@LMSC5.IS.LMSC.LOCKHEED.COM
Subject: Re: 6 Re: Pulling contests
Organization: Lockheed Missiles & Space Company, Inc.
Date: Tue, 6 Oct 92 21:27:21 GMT

##### STUFF DELETED #####
#Disclaimer: All my info is hearsay. I have never been directly involved
#with draft horses, in fact my horse is scared witless of them (silly horse).
#
#But I do know that it's very difficult to retrain a draft horse that's been
used in pulling contents, since he will take off and never stop. Very dangerous
#to hitch to a regular wagon or cart. Only young horses are used in pulling
#contests. I have dark suspicions of the training involved to make the horses
#so hyper to pull right away, and of what happens to the older horses (since
#they're too dangerous to use for regular driving).
#
#I don't believe that horses are starved, although, since that would weaken them
#------
#ceduke & Amadeus, the one scared silly of drafts.
#Just mah lil ol' opinions.
#
At the Draft Horse Shows I attended many of the same horses were used for
pulling weights, pulling antique carriages, antique farm equipment, driving
through hazards and in a variety of farm wagon combinations from singles,
pairs, 4-in hand, and six-ups. Many were also shown by children. I can
remember my grandfather having a pair of draft horses on his farm. They
were used for pulling wagons, plows, pulling out roots, anything a tractor
would be used for now (including pulling out cars stuck in the mud!) They
were also the biggest, gentlest horses I've ever seen. All the grandchildren
were able to ride them.

No farmer with a bunch of kids like they used to have would have a dangerous
horse around in the old days. The natural personality of the average draft
horse is that of a "gentle giant". If you are seeing these horse in that
dangerous condition, I'd be willing to bet the problem is MAN-MADE! And
you can see cruelly treated animals at nearly any "show".Whether it's a
horse show or dog show.

Not meant to be a flame! Just hate to see stereotyping anywhere. ;-)
Newsgroups: rec.equestrian
From: sknopp@vax (KNOPP, SHERRON)
Subject: Re: Custom Pants
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41    
Organization: Williams College Center for Computing
Distribution: na
Date: Fri, 2 Oct 1992 00:40:00 GMT

In article <1992Oct1.175736.9978@netcom.com>, mspace@netcom.com (Brian Hall) writes...
>I have been looking for riding pants on and off for a few months now and
>have not quite found what I am looking for.  It seems even harder because
>most stores only carry womens apparel and order mens.  With prices being
>what they are, and myself being fairly picky, I was wondering how easy
>it would be to get a custom pair made and what cost I could expect.  I would
>really like:
> 
>100% cotton (or close to it)
>Black or dark gray
>Button fly (I have *never* seen this in a store period)
>Loose fitting
>
Gosh, Brian, I can't help you--but your post just made me think of
something that has bothered me for a long time:  it's USUAL to buy
custom riding shirts, custom chaps, custom boots.  I mean, there's
even a sense in the horse show world that if you DON'T have these,
you're kind of out of it  I've ALWAYS been surprised that custom
breeches aren't also a staple.  I do buy custom boots and custom
chaps, because the stock women's sizes just don't fit me--but
this goes for breeches, too.  I bet I try on 10 pair for every one
pair I buy (and this is after the salespeople in my tack store
already KNOW my prolems).  I'm not overweight, disproportioned,
misshapen, or otherwise deformed.  So why the big deal about
custom shirts????  I mean, evenn if the stock shirt isn't a
perfect fit, it's UNDER the damn JACKET, so who cares??  But
if the breeches don't fit--?  The conclusion is:  I wish I knew
some place that offered custom breeches, and if you find out any,
please let me know!  I would love for my breeches to fit as well
as my Vogel boots.

Sherron the Misfitted 
Newsgroups: rec.equestrian
From: GC.GGG@forsythe.stanford.edu (Gwyn Gordon)
Subject: Re: half pass vs leg yield (was flying changes)
Organization: Stanford University, California, USA
Distribution: usa
Date: Tue, 6 Oct 1992 22:42:29 GMT

In article <BvpvAr.23y@news.larc.nasa.gov>,
patty@alpha.larc.nasa.gov (Patty Howell) writes:
>
>Where did you get this? Maybe I don't get it, but what it seems to
>me that you're describing is a bad half pass. In a leg yield, the
>horse is bent *away* from the direction of movement with the forehand
>leading slightly, in a half pass, he is bent *into* the direction
>of movement, with the forehand leading slightly. Haunches leading
>                                                                                                 ****************
>in a half pass is a major fault. That's what every book I ever read
>*******************************
>says, anyway. And it makes sense because if the haunches are leading,
>then the horse doesn't have to really engage their hind legs to cross
>to get the sideways movement.
>
>Since you're not the first to describe a half pass as a leg yield, it
>leads me to ask,"what am I missing?" Are terms getting mutated? Or
>am I just being too much of a purist?
>
>patty@alpha.larc.nasa.gov
>
>=================================================================


I got this from "Basic Dressage Handbook" by, uhhh, shoot, I can't
remember his name. Lundquist, that's it. And, yes, certainly I am
NOT a purist, so I may have described it incorrectly in terms of
dressage. I ride hunters and jumpers, and so the 'dressage' I do is
adapted to fit what I need. It's not done as an end in itself.
Another thing is that often enough when I'm trying to describe
something I could show you with hand motions or body language what I
mean, but in Aschii art I am a complete failure. I think, though, in
the future I will say "move your horse like this" rather than use
any terms because if I'm wrong then it screws everything up.

My understanding of a half-pass was this:

|
|
|\
|\   ^
|\   |  horse moving along rail with body straight
|\
|
|
|

Correct me, please, I don't like to make fox paws to an
international audience.....

=gwyn

ps: another thing is -- I'm certainly describing what you would do
in an exaggerated way, in order to make it very clear. Like, you
have to ride a green horse V-E-R-Y C-L-E-A-R-L-Y. On a made horse
like she was describing, she wouldn't have to have an exaggerated
bend like that.
From: kris@hpdmd48.boi.hp.com (kris troxel)
Date: Wed, 23 Sep 1992 14:51:23 GMT
Subject: Re: Feeding oil (was Re: Mud fever)
Organization: Hewlett Packard - Boise, ID
Newsgroups: rec.equestrian

The main reason for adding oil, or fats, to a horses feed is to increase
the caloric density of their diet. Fats contain 2.5 times the calories
for the same weight as do carbohydrates and proteins. Generally the coat
is the last part of the body that gets its nutrients, after all necc.
functions are adequately provided for. Energy, in the form of calories, is
generally the limited factor in equine diets. We either spend our time
trying to put weight on or trying to take it off, but you'll notice the
fat ones always have the shiniest coats. 

Feeding oils or fats will not cause, directly, increased excression of 
oils from the skin. They will give the diet a boost in density, which may
provide needed energy. For example, you feed a diet of roughage and some
type of concentrate (grain). This diet has been balanced for the amount of
work that the horse is doing. The horse isn't gaining or losing weight, and
seems to have plenty of "energy" to do anything you ask. You are feeding
the horse as much as he can physically eat, so you increase the caloric
density of the diet by adding a fat. This allows you to feed with more
bang for the pound. 

As for your question about different oils, yes they all can be used as
fat sources in horse diets. I have found that corn oil and soybean oil
are palatable to horses, most of the vegetable type oils are. Some 
research has been done on using animal fats, however they do not tend to
be as palatable.  Generally you would add approx. 1/4 to 1/2 cup mixed
into the grain ration. Start slowly to allow the horses gut to adjust to
the change. While I have formulated rations for endurance horses that 
ended up including oils, I have usually found that changing the grain
from oats to barley or corn will provided the needed increase in energy.

I suppose I should provide some basis for my comments. My degree is in
Animal Science, with a specialty in Nutrition. I hope this has helped cla-
rify the question.

Kris Troxel
From: pallas@cephalo.neusc.bcm.tmc.edu (Sarah Pallas)
Newsgroups: rec.equestrian
Subject: Re: sentementality
Date: 6 Oct 1992 16:40:12 GMT
Organization: Baylor College of Medicine, Houston,Tx
NNTP-Posting-Host: cephalo.neusc.bcm.tmc.edu

In article <1992Oct6.025810.12337@infonode.ingr.com>
blythedr@infonode.ingr.com (Dennis Blythe) (Pam?) writes:

>  Most horses that are taken to the meat market are packed in filthy 
>over crowded pens and practicly starved to death because the most 
>strongest and biggest horse will fight for the food.
>Then they are hauled in the most filthiest smell of death trailers 
>that are only the size to haul goats, pigs or cattle. They are jammed 
>in so tightly that thay can hardly move. Trailers are usually jammed 
>so full that they travel at night to avoid weigh stations. Some
>of the horses die in the trailer because they are crushed to death,
>sufficate or from dehydration.
>  
> When the horses cause a comotion the drivers some
>times have to poke a stick in the side holes, poking out several eyes 
>and clubbing horses on the head.
>      Pam

This sounds to me like it is straight out of one of those animal
rights propaganda magazines.  Do you have any evidence that any of
this actually happens, or did you read it somewhere?  I find it very
hard to believe that people who want to get money for horse meat would
either starve their horses or let them die,even if they are the worst
sort of human beings.  Further, I find it hard to believe that people
could be so cruel to animals in a willful way.  Most people have
respect for other living things, though there are certainly some who
do not.  Remember that animal rightists want all animals to run free,
and will say anything to achieve this politically.  They want animals
to have equal rights with people, though I think they don't really
know what they mean by that.  Anyway, they certainly don't want us
using horses for sport!!  So, Pam, if that is where you got that
information, take it with a grain of salt, and if you do have
firsthand knowledge of such horrible practices, then we should all
write our congressPEOPLE (not ALL reps are male!) with some actual
documented evidence.

As for whether Linda should send her horse to the packers, didn't
someone else on the net say they found a packer that would let her
watch while the horse was humanely killed?

In my not so humble opinion,
Sarah Pallas and Monty (yes, Linda, I do love my lease horse, but not 
as much as if he were mine!)
Newsgroups: rec.equestrian