HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: ogle@uncc.edu (Craig Ogle)
Subject: Re: The meaning of "The Trees"
Reply-To: ogle@uncc.edu
Organization: University of NC at Charlotte
Date: Thu, 28 Jan 1993 01:02:26 GMT

In article 9Fo@news.cso.uiuc.edu, cka52397@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (Chintan Amin) writes:
>In article <108428@bu.edu> jaeger@buphy.bu.edu (Gregg Jaeger) writes:
>>
>>In article <1993Jan26.231215.10201@iscsvax.uni.edu> wipperma9340 writes:
>>
>>
>>>Perhaps Neil implied the "they" to be something other than what was previously
>>>mentioned throught the song.
>>
>>I strongly doubt it.
>>
>	Why?

Simply because "The Trees" is a statement about human behavior and Neil would
not be so naive as to blame the humans lot in life on outside intervention.
In your interpretaion who would the humans represent?  An alien force? More
humans(which technically would still be represented by trees, ;-) )?  No.  I think 
Neil is simply stating that humans would almost always rather bring others 
down to their level than try to rise above.  IMHO.
---
=============================================================================
                             Harry C. Johnson IV

                             Phone: (704)547-4339

                         E-Mail: ogle@mosaic.uncc.edu

                            Department of Chemistry
                   University of North Carolina at Charlotte
                        Charlotte, North Carolina 28223

"Seems to me, its all just chemistry..."
                                        -Neil Peart
=============================================================================



Newsgroups: alt.music.rush
From: cka52397@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (Slartibartfast)
Subject: Re: The meaning of "The Trees"
Organization: University of Illinois at Urbana
Date: Tue, 26 Jan 1993 19:51:19 GMT

In article <108275@bu.edu> jaeger@buphy.bu.edu (Gregg Jaeger) writes:
>In article <C1FwHJ.KGF@news.cso.uiuc.edu> cka52397@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (Slartibartfast) writes:
>>In article <108260@bu.edu> jaeger@buphy.bu.edu (Gregg Jaeger) writes:
>>>In article <1993Jan25.184933.10157@iscsvax.uni.edu> wipperma9340@iscsvax.uni.edu writes:
>
>>>>Neil said that "The Trees" is "An allegorical metaphor on human behavior."
>
>>>Which behavior is that? 
>
>My point in asking this question is to point out that it is a relatively
>empty statement, politically anyway.
>
>>	Probably the fact that we have this increadible ability to fight 
>>amongst ourselves, rather than against a common enemy.  The trees were finally
>>felled by humans, after failing to band together...
>
>I don't think so. The _trees_ passed a law that they must be kept equal.
>If any humans _reduced_ (a la "kept equal", not _felled_) _some_ trees
>it was presumably due to _their_ law. It's not that the trees were
>fighting humans or something.
>
>
>Gregg
>
>
>
>-- 
>Gregg Jaeger (jaeger@buphy)  Dept. of Physics (and Philosophy), Boston Univ.

	I can see that, but my interpretation was that "They" in "They passed
a noble law.." doesn't refer to either the Oaks or Maples, but to an unknown
third party.  :-)

-- 
 Chintan Amin  The University of Illinois, Urbana Champaign  c-amin1@uiuc.edu
  "Public speaking is very easy!" <-- Quayle 10/88  ;-)
  "Unfortunately, the people of Louisiana are not racists" <-- Quayle, 10/12/90
NeXTMail Accepted at cka52397@sumter.cso.uiuc.edu  Go Illini Holiday Bowl 1992
From: misselt@trapper.sdsu.edu.sdsu.edu (Karl &)
Newsgroups: alt.music.rush
Subject: Re: Making Memories
Date: 23 Jan 1993 10:52:56 GMT
Organization: San Diego State University, College of Sciences
NNTP-Posting-Host: trapper.sdsu.edu
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1 PL8]

Howard Johnson's Got His Ho-Jo Workin' (fes9s@faraday.clas.Virginia.EDU) wrote:

: Y'know, i just remembered i've always been unclear what Ged sings
: after "Our memories remind us <and here I'm unsure> made me <something>
: <end uncertainty> ...last night so bad"  ORQ "Whoooo, yeah, yeah, yeah-
: yeaaahhh" ;)


: cheers,
: frank
: --
: I was so happy that I didn't have a .sig, and then someone had
: to go and teach me how it's done.
: "Be sure to leave your underpants with someone you can trust."
:      -- Jethro Tull                          "...Bueller?"

	I believe the lyric is:
		'Our memories remind us
		 Maybe road life's not so bad'

-Karl
Newsgroups: alt.music.rush
From: rivit@shell.portal.com (Russell Michael VanTassell)
Subject: RTB:  Neurotica
Organization: Portal Communications Company -- 408/973-9111 (voice) 408/973-8091 (data)
Date: Sun, 24 Jan 1993 06:17:59 GMT


Just a rather curious thing I noticed while listening to my copy of Roll
the Bones -- right at the very end of Neurotica, there is another scream
apparently from Geddy (at least it sure sounds like this).  It sounds
like "Stop!" or something...

Can anyone confirm this?
--
------------------------------------------------------------------------
RiViT@shell.portal.com                                      russ@mce.com

        Wake me up in '96 and tell me it was all a bad dream...
From: jaeger@buphy.bu.edu (Gregg Jaeger)
Newsgroups: alt.music.rush
Subject: Re: The meaning of "The Trees"
Keywords: Correction
Date: 27 Jan 93 15:37:22 GMT
Organization: Boston University Physics Department

In article <C1I6Mt.9Fo@news.cso.uiuc.edu> cka52397@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (Chintan Amin) writes:
>In article <108428@bu.edu> jaeger@buphy.bu.edu (Gregg Jaeger) writes:

>	Ever thought that maybe Neil thought that there might be several valid
>interpretations to this, and probably most other, songs...

Sure, but there is usually a most plausible interpretation. It's my
feeling that by listening to various people arguing for various 
interpretation one can decide one's favorite interpretation. That's
the value of discussing them...


Gregg



-- 
Gregg Jaeger (jaeger@buphy)  Dept. of Physics (and Philosophy), Boston Univ.
"You see, the quantum mechanical description is in terms of knowledge" -Peierls
"One can _not_ put the psi-function... in place of the... thing" -Schroedinger
                   _De gustibus non disputandum_, NOT!
From: intruder@cats.ucsc.edu (Isaac N. Truder)
Newsgroups: alt.music.rush
Subject: Re: Digital vs. Analog
Date: 27 Jan 93 23:47:31 GMT
Organization: University of California; Santa Cruz
NNTP-Posting-Host: am.ucsc.edu


 > >respect for the clarity you can get in the CD medium.  I haven't n
 > >much hiss on Rush albums, but I have one CD where there's so much 
 > >on the vocal track that you can actually hear them turning the lev
 > >the track up and down when the singer is singing quietly, because 
 > >had to jack up the level so high to catch his voice that it sounds
 > >you're cooking sausages.  And this is an actual studio recording, 
 > >bootleg or anything.
 > 
 > I've heard little or no hiss on the Rush CDs from around MP or so
 > on, which is about when they went ADD.  PoW on (DDD) are some of
 > the best-sounding CDs I have in terms of clarity and dynamics,
 > esp. HYF.  (Could it be that Rupert Hine isn't too great with
 > digital recording, in addition to the other reasons flying around
 > to get rid of him :-)

Blblblbl, what I said didn't come out right.  I, too, have not heard
much hiss on any Rush albums.  I do have other CDs, by other bands,
which sound terrible on CD because attention was not payed to the
superior sound quality that the digital medium would provide; and one CD
that's especially bad in that area (Danzig's HOW THE GODS KILL album).
-- 
+------------------------------------------------------------------+
| Isaac Truder  <intruder@cats.ucsc.edu> | BLADDER CONTROL CENTRAL |
|      "The more you drive... the less intelligent you are."       |
+------------------------------------------------------------------+
From: jaeger@buphy.bu.edu (Gregg Jaeger)
Newsgroups: alt.music.rush
Subject: Re: Song Length (was Re: Digital vs. Analog)
Date: 26 Jan 93 21:27:41 GMT
Organization: Boston University Physics Department

In article <C1H6pJ.2pA@dartvax.dartmouth.edu> Timothy.J.Young@dartmouth.edu (Timothy J. Young) writes:

>... I know "Bravado" is not
>that long, but when I listen to it, it seems to last forever because
>it's so repetitive. The same is true of "Ghost of a Chance", and it
>nearly ruins the song. Thank God this did not happen to "Dreamline".
>      You had the same problem with "Presto", with, IMHO, the main
>offenders being "Warpaint" and "Available Light". Fortuantely "The
>Pass" and "Superconducter" were spared.
>I'm hopeful for their next release. My advice is to Rush is when they
>get ready to release their new album and it doesn't take up enough CD
>space is simply add an instrumental (these usually turn out well). If
>they had done this for Presto, they wouldn't have needed to drag out
>"Warpaint" or even put "Scars" on the album.  


It is _highly_ unlikely that Rush is putting repititious portions into
their songs simply to fill up cd space. The reason they fill up cds is
to _give_ us more music and they do this by adding more _songs_, not
by just throwing in repititions so we _think_ we're getting more. The
length of their songs reached an average of five or six minutes before
repitition became a strong element of their compositional style. I
think that they are repeating more for the sake of ``songwriting'' and
that Rupert Hine has been a strong factor in this. One can hope that
with Hine out of the studio now (luckily) that this tendency has reached
its zenith and may perhaps even decline...


Gregg




-- 
Gregg Jaeger (jaeger@buphy)  Dept. of Physics (and Philosophy), Boston Univ.
"You see, the quantum mechanical description is in terms of knowledge" -Peierls
"One can _not_ put the psi-function... in place of the... thing" -Schroedinger
                   _De gustibus non disputandum_, NOT!
From: strega@hardy.u.washington.edu (The Analog Kid)
Newsgroups: alt.music.rush
Subject: Re: Live In St Louis
Date: 26 Jan 1993 00:11:23 GMT
Organization: University of Washington, Seattle
NNTP-Posting-Host: hardy.u.washington.edu

ES> At the end of the medley - Working Man/Anthem/Bastille
ES> Day/In The Mood/Drum Solo - by what name does Geddy refer to
ES> Neil, by way of introducing the drum solo?
ES> All I've managed to work out so far is 'Okay kids, it's time
ES> for Dr _Brindle_"

I always thought it was:
"Okay, kids, it's time for Doctor Riddle!"

Or, I, too, could be wrong.

Randall Haskin
strega@u.washington.edu



Newsgroups: alt.music.rush
From: moleface@next02cville.wam.umd.edu (Moleface)
Subject: Re: ALBUM BOUT
Organization: Workstations at Maryland, University of Maryland, College Park
Date: Mon, 25 Jan 1993 21:10:48 GMT

In article <1jurifINNlns@cat.cis.Brown.EDU> ST402658@brownvm.brown.edu ()  
writes:
> Am I the only one in the world who _likes_ Rivendell? I think this track
> _defines_ one boundary of the range of Rush music. Understated classical
> guitar, synth-like background electric guitar, Geddy actually singing
> rather than screaming. The lyrics may not be spectacular, but they do
> contain literary references (Tolkien). This type of music is what set  
Rush
> apart from other "hard rock" bands in 1975. IMO, this is one of Rush's  
more
> progressive moments.
> 
> Steve Kilpatrick
Led Zep's "Ramble On" and the "Battle of Evermore" each contained Tolkien  
references aplenty.
From: wipperma9340@iscsvax.uni.edu
Newsgroups: alt.music.rush
Subject: Re: Afterimage
Date: 21 Jan 93 09:03:07 -0600
Reply-To: wipperma9340
Organization: University of Northern Iowa

In article <107828@bu.edu>, jaeger@buphy.bu.edu (Gregg Jaeger) writes:
> In article <1993Jan21.041546.1220@galileo.cc.rochester.edu> jm012b@uhura.cc.rochester.edu (Jeffrey P. Moon) wr
>>... Is there something that Geddy or any of the
>>band members have said regarding the meaning of this work? 
> 
> 
> Yes, it's written about the death of a friend who died in a motorcycle
> accident...
> 
> Gregg

I thought it was a car accident.  It was tragic, nonetheless.

The man killed was Robbie Whelan, who I believe was an assistant engineer on
several albums.  He is also listed in the Signals credits as being one of the
players on their baseball team, although I don't recall which position he
played.  Left field?

Listening to Grace Under Pressure is rather difficult; the songs are just so
depressing- or in the case of Red Lenses, simply too bizarre.

The Analog Kid
From: wipperma9340@iscsvax.uni.edu
Newsgroups: alt.music.rush
Subject: Re: The meaning of "The Trees"
Summary: more tree things
Date: 27 Jan 93 05:12:15 GMT
Reply-To: wipperma9340
Organization: University of Northern Iowa


 
> 
> Nope. The _maples_ passed a noble law.
> 
> The relevant lyrics are:
> 
> So the maples formed a union
> And demanded equal rights.
> "These oaks are just too greedy;
> We will make them give us light."
> Now there's no more oak oppression,
> For they passed a noble law,
> And the trees are all kept equal
> By hatchet, axe, and saw.
> 
> 
> "They" clearly refers to the maples here.

Not necessarily true.  Why? 
        1.  If the trees are "kept equal,"  wouldn't that mean that some outside
power came to cut them down without referring to the specific type of tree.  If
the Maples brought equality by cutting down the oaks, they would have to cut
themselves down as well.  
        2.  Are you saying that The Maples use hatchets, axes, and saws?  That
would be quite interesting to see.
        3.  Can't the song be interpreted as saying that the two sides were so
concerned about their own "rights" that they neglected a mutual enemy coming
from the outside?  Their infighting blinded them to their impending doom.
        4.  It would be difficult for Neil to state that "they" were something
different than the maples; it would have disrupted the flow of the song.

                "Now there's no more oak oppression
                 For the humans passed a noble law . . ."
Perhaps Neil implied the "they" to be something other than what was previously
mentioned throught the song.

Yours etc.,

The Analog Tree
From: NETOPRBL@ncsuvm.cc.ncsu.edu
Newsgroups: alt.music.rush
Subject: Boots
Date: 28 Jan 93 20:52:47 GMT
Organization: North Carolina State University

Hello out there,
     With all of these discussions on boots, I figure that I should post some
info about some that I have. I recently posted oabout the Over the Europe
boot I picked up in NYC and here is some more info.
   RUSH Over the Europe MECD 2084/2085 Metal Crash
        Force Ten, Limelight,Freewill, Red Sector, Time Stands Still,
        Dreamline,Bravado, Roll the Bones,Show Don't Tell,The Big Money,
        Ghost of a Chance,Subdivisions,The Pass,Where's My Thing,The Rhythm
        Method,Closer to the Heart,Xanadu,Superconducter,Tom Sawyer,Medley of
        Spirit of Radio,2112 Overture,Finding My Way,La Villa Strangiato,
        Anthem,Red Barchetta, Spirit of Radio(Reprise),Cygnus X-1.
 
The quality of this boot is absolutely incredible and very clear though it
sounds like an audience tape with close clapping and audience voices and
conversations. It was recorded in Rotterdam,Holland on May 3,1992 and I
paid $40 for it at Revolver Records in NYC and suggest to buy it or find a
tape dubbed off of it. Other good shows that I can remember off the top of
my head is Live from Electric Ladyland,1974 with lots of first and second
album stuff plus a rare Beatles cover"Bad Boy". There are also some good
King Biscuit Flower Hour shows and the 1981 Chicago Ampitheatre show, so
you just have to look and do research to find some good shows.
     PLEASE-post to the group and don't send mail to this sig. because I'm
     borrowing a friend's account. Thanks,
                                             Hans
From: esuqs@csv.warwick.ac.uk (Mr W J Lynn)
Newsgroups: alt.music.rush
Subject: Re: The Pass
Date: 26 Jan 1993 11:15:29 -0000
Organization: Computing Services, University of Warwick, UK
Distribution: world
NNTP-Posting-Host: sage.csv.warwick.ac.uk

In article <C1FG2L.3v3@csugrad.cs.vt.edu> mwilson@csugrad.cs.vt.edu (Zaphod Beeblebrox) writes:
>Ever since the release of Presto, The Pass has been a special song to me.  I
>don't think too much arguement could be done over the basic theme of the song,
>but there is one little tid-bit that I'm not fully decisive about.  The final
>line in the Lyrics notes on the CD is:
> 
>       Christ, what have you done?
>
>Now, I don't know about the rest of you, but it has been my personal opinion 
>for some time now that Mr. Peart does not choose his words lightly.  I firmly
>beleive that each and every word in his songs are there for a reason.  Now,
>the word Christ here can have two meanings.  Christ can be used as a simple
>exclamation, or it can be used as a noun.  I've come up with the theory that
>Neil might be trying to blame Christ for starting the suicide thing.  
>The verse previous to the one in question talks about a noble warrior who lost
>the will to fight.  Could this be Jesus Christ who accepted his fate to die and
>did not fight for his freedom or life?  I'm not a religious person, nor am I
>an Atheist, so this is question is purely musical in orientation.  I have no
>preferences as to which way to look at the song, I'm simply curious if anyone
>knows or has considered this view as well.

I am not going to go into anything biblical here, coz i know you've all
heard it before, but being a christian, i know that this reasoning about
christ giving up his fight for freedom etc etc doesn't fit in with the 
whole story of Jesus. He didn't give up, and i reckon Neil (Niel?) will
know that aswell as most of us do.

Actually, the bit that gets me in the song is this.

All of us do time in the gutters,
dreamers turn to look at the cars.

What have cars got to do with all this?

Warren.
--

|warren@dcs.warwick.ac.uk/esuqs@csv.warwick.ac.uk/cstadcl@csv.warwick.ac.uk|
| If you cannot stand      |      /  _  _  _     This is how we know what  |
| up for what you beleive, |     //|| \| \| |\ | love is, Jesus christ     |
| Your beliefs are nothing | /| //-||_/|_/|-| \| laid down his life for    |
| and neither are you.     |/ |//  || \| \|_|  | us.    1 John 3:16        |
|warren@dcs.warwick.ac.uk/esuqs@csv.warwick.ac.uk/cstadcl@csv.warwick.ac.uk|

Newsgroups: alt.music.rush
From: colesa@spot (Adam Coles)
Subject: Re: Re: 2112 Ending...
Organization: Computing & Network Services
Date: Thu, 21 Jan 1993 17:57:47 GMT

In article <1jm4nsINN1gc@parsley.csv.warwick.ac.uk>,
esuqs@csv.warwick.ac.uk (Mr W J Lynn) writes:
> 
> >	In _Visions_ he says that it is INTENTIONALLY left vague.  This blew me
> >away when I read it, I'd always gone with the 'Elder Race Returns'
> >interpretation, and I was really surprised to learn that I had gotten that as a
> >result of my own life-view.
> 
> I'm sorry, as far as i'm concerned the ending is still unhappy.
> 
> If you read the lyrics it says-
> 
> V. Oracle: The Dream
> ... "I guess it was a dream, but even now it all seems so vivid to me.  Clearly
> yet I see the beckoning hand of the oracle as he stood at the summit of the
> staircase" ...
> ... "I see still the incredible beauty of the sculptured cities and the pure
> spirit of man revealed in the lives and works of this world.  I was overwhelmed
> by both wonder and understanding as I saw a completely different way to life, a
> way that had been crushed by the Federation long ago.  I saw now how
> meaningless life had become with the loss of all these things ..."
> 
> Notce the how the 'elder race' were crushed by the federation long ago.
> So how can this 'elder race' come back and rescue these people?
> He sees how life was and how it can never be again.
>
I see it in the way that, when the Elder Race left the Solar system, the
Temples arose and brought about the Federation that crushed that way of
life.

In the lyrics to the music, the Oracle reveals that 
"They left our planets long ago
The Elder Race still learn and grow.
Their power grows with purpose strong
To claim the home where they belong..."

(these are from memory, but close enough...;>)

> Before the Soliloquy it says-
> 
> VI. Soliloquy
> ... "I have not left this cave for days now, it has become my last refuge in my
> total despair.  I have only the music of the waterfall to comfort me now.  I
> can no longer live under the control of the Federation, but there is no other
> place to go.  My last hope is that with my death I may pass into the world of
> my dream, and know peace at last."
> 
> This is a world of his _dream_.
> Who said they ever existed?
>
The sequence of the music is that, his "lifeblood spills over", then the
Elder Race fulfills the Oracles prophecy and returns to "Assume control",
but too late for our hero.  A bittersweet ending.

> Warren.
> --
> 
> |warren@dcs.warwick.ac.uk/esuqs@csv.warwick.ac.uk/cstadcl@csv.warwick.ac.uk|
> | If you cannot stand      |      /  _  _  _     This is how we know what  |
> | up for what you believe, |     //|| \| \| |\ | love is, Jesus christ     |
> | Your beliefs are nothing | /| //-||_/|_/|-| \| laid down his life for    |
> | and neither are you.     |/ |//  || \| \|_|  | us.    1 John 3:16        |
> |warren@dcs.warwick.ac.uk/esuqs@csv.warwick.ac.uk/cstadcl@csv.warwick.ac.uk|
> 
> 
Adam Coles
CU Boulder
"Sure I'll wear a three-piece suit, 
as long as it's jeans, t-shirt, and a leather
jacket!"
From: Timothy.J.Young@dartmouth.edu (Timothy J. Young)
Newsgroups: alt.music.rush
Subject: By-Tor and the Snow Dog (was Re: Album bouts)
Date: 24 Jan 93 19:36:15 GMT
 <1993Jan22.055611.24195@wam.umd.edu> 
 <C19LCA.Kp6@dartvax.dartmouth.edu>  
 <1993Jan24.160943.11083@newshub.ariel.yorku.ca>
Organization: Dartmouth College, Hanover, NH
X-Posted-From: InterNews1.0a5@newshost.dartmouth.edu

In article <1993Jan24.160943.11083@newshub.ariel.yorku.ca>
cs911029@ariel.yorku.ca (THOMAS J DUCK) writes:

>      Ouch!  Please do yourself a very big favour and have another listen
> to this song,  especially the live verion on ATWAS.  As a guitarist,  there
> is much in this song that just blows me away.  The last part of the section
> called "Of the Battle" is just incredible;  it is literally symphonic
> in nature.  You can just hear the ghosts coming out after the battle!

If it makes you feel any better, I much prefer the live version...



Tim Young, Dartmouth College, Class of '96
"Not everyone can carry the weight of the world..." -R.E.M.
The opinions expressed here are not necessarily those of Dartmouth
College or any of its students...
From: jaeger@buphy.bu.edu (Gregg Jaeger)
Newsgroups: alt.music.rush
Subject: Re: The Pass
Date: 25 Jan 93 21:37:00 GMT
Organization: Boston University Physics Department

In article <C1FG2L.3v3@csugrad.cs.vt.edu> mwilson@csugrad.cs.vt.edu (Zaphod Beeblebrox) writes:

>Ever since the release of Presto, The Pass has been a special song to me.  I
>don't think too much arguement could be done over the basic theme of the song,
>but there is one little tid-bit that I'm not fully decisive about.  The final
>line in the Lyrics notes on the CD is:
 
>       Christ, what have you done?


This subject has been discussed _ad infinitum_ in The National Midnight
Star. No concensus could be reached on the interpretation of this line
(not that one is necessary). If you have access to syrinx.umd.edu you
might peruse some back issues. If you'd like I can give you the numbers
of some issues where this was heavily discussed...


Gregg


-- 
Gregg Jaeger (jaeger@buphy)  Dept. of Physics (and Philosophy), Boston Univ.
"You see, the quantum mechanical description is in terms of knowledge" -Peierls
"One can _not_ put the psi-function... in place of the... thing" -Schroedinger
                   _De gustibus non disputandum_, NOT!              (*