HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: rose@acf9.nyu.edu (David Rose)
Newsgroups: alt.games.torg
Subject: Re: Tech Axioms
Date: 7 Apr 92 19:38:39 GMT
Organization: New York University

burt@ptltd.com (Burton Choinski) writes:

>I think the best way to deal with all the percieved problems in tech is leave
>it to the "feel" of the GM.  When I run, Auto pistols work in Nile, they won't
>in Orrorsh...they don't "Feel" right to me, the personification of the EL1 as
>far as the characters are concerned.  Yea, I know that one COULD hook a steam
>engine to a gatling and make a minigun, but it doesn't "feel" right, and as
>such is a contradition.

  Oddly enough, I think that the steam engine connected to a gatling does
feel right in Orrorsh.  Just think, something else to fail at the wrong
moment...

--
David Rose
Courant Institute of Mathematical Sciences
251 Mercer Street, New York, NY 10012
rose@math12.cims.nyu.edu
Newsgroups: alt.games.torg
From: Rick Pim <RICK@QUCDNEE.bitnet>
Subject: Re:  the working of axiom levels
X-Gated-By: The Black Marble Wombat@morticia.cnns.unt.edu
X-Gated-From: torg mailing list
Organization: University of North Texas
X-Gatemail-Version: 1.0b
Date: Tue, 14 Apr 1992 16:01:00 GMT

> are Z_COPEAB@CCSVAX.SFASU.EDU (BRANDON COPE)

>Well, I see no reason why higher Tech items from Nippon Tech or the Cyberpapacy
>would have problems working in Core Earth.
   except that they don't - that's one of the basic things we know about
the torg universe.

>I also see no problem with applying
>the laws of physics as we know them to *any* cosm --
   i certainly do: even when you attempt to apply the laws of physics to
Core Earth, you're applying them to *another universe*. there appear to
be fundamental differences between our universe and that of Core Earth.

>If the rules are not internally consistant as they now stand, then the rules
>MUST be changed.
   now there's hubris for you. :-)

rp
Newsgroups: alt.games.torg
From: Rick Jones <albert@crick.ssctr.bcm.tmc.edu>
Subject: Re: Campaign variations
X-Gated-By: The Black Marble Wombat@morticia.cnns.unt.edu
X-Gated-From: torg mailing list
Organization: University of North Texas
X-Gatemail-Version: 1.0b
Date: Tue, 14 Apr 1992 22:08:52 GMT

> Maybe I should wait until after the Infiniverse Update comes out later this 
> month, but it may also be a good idea to get a head start on the subject....

	Nah.  If I read another axiom physics lecture, I'll be forced
to do something Wicked.

> The question is: how does everyone's campaign differ from the 'official'
> campaign (ie, the one detailed in Infiniverse)?  I know that there are many
> non-subscribers out there so they won't be able to answer in any great 
> detail but there are some things that are obvious changes (establishing the
> Aztec Empire, not using a cosm, having a home-grown cosm land on Earth, etc).

	Umm, (from memory, I keep my campaign records on paper [gasp]).

	The Warrior of the Dark (aka Tora Tancred, daughter of Gareth
Tancred, and his wife from House Daleron) is well on her way to becoming
High Lord of Aysle.  She was able to plant a stelae in Germany, and
Denmark was overrun by Vikings.  I'm writing a rumor to send into
Infiniverse linking her with the Dark Elf rebellion in Sweeden and
the Tech 16 dwarves, if it end up being ignored, I'll run it anyway.
I'm giving WEG until Infiniverse Update to pick a new HLoA before I
go ahead and start her grand push towards becoming a High Lord.
In my world, she's the first major villain who is learning to 
use cross-cosm henchmen, since the strange mixtures in Storm 
Knight parties are so effective.  [She also wants to stir-fry
the testicles of a certain Gunslinger.]

	Wu Han is still his insidious self. (Earlier, he defected to Nippon,
but he was, in fact, a triple agent, and came back to the Nile after
Kanawa got tired of his antics.)

	The Akashans are sending Gudasko warriors (the big fuzzy dudes)
and Larendi scouts to Aysle, since the G's were getting cranky and
wanted someone to kill.

	They are also about to start giving aid to the invaded Africa, after
an ambassador was taken on a tour of the Nile ("They are most out of
balance.").  

	Tharkhold did arrive, and the players just put themselves in
a perfect position for Thratchen to make his offer leading into
City of Demons.

> The Nile presence in the Land Below was pretty much wiped out (minor change
> though, since the DD wants Nile people there; it just sends more).

	Ditto.  More troops were sent in, and Major whathisname was killed,
so someone else is doing his work down there.

	Other than that, I've run a pretty vanilla Torg game.

-- 
Rick Jones				Systems Support Center
albert@bcm.tmc.edu			Baylor College of Medicine
Voice: 713-798-7352			standard disclaimers apply
GEEZ Mahn, I'm surrounded by amateurs!- Sebastian (the Little Mermaid)
From: oakes@jupiter.nmt.edu (David Oakes)
Subject: Re: How do axioms really work?
X-Gated-By: The Black Marble Wombat@morticia.cnns.unt.edu
X-Gated-From: torg mailing list
Organization: University of North Texas
X-Gatemail-Version: 1.0b
Date: Tue, 14 Apr 1992 18:05:19 GMT

Sean Malloy(malloy@nprdc.navy.mil) pontificates:
 ! At the point where a layer of cambium a couple of millimeters thick
 ! is structurally strong enough to support a 50' tree, you can hang up
 ! any pretense of rationality.

all it has to do is support the weight that the newly dead wood wont
dead wood still has some resistance, just not that of live wood
(and not enough to make bows different)

 ! If you move the rigidity down far enough, then you're either not going
 ! to get the necessary impact loading, or you're going to find that
 ! mountains don't work in your cosm, because rock will tear itself apart
 ! before it will support the weight of the mountain above it. Why do you
 ! think I called it the 'foam-rubber cosm'?

no problem
how many mountains are in the LL in the first place?
(do any edinos discuss huge mountains? or just lots of trees?)

Aristotle point taken

 ! I believe we went through this over Copernicus; does the universe
 ! change because one man describes it differently?

absolutely
(my personal feeling was that some other "discovery" caused
 CE to increase in tech, making what copernicus would observe
 the new reality)

birds fly because they are LIGHT
airplanes (sloops, whatever) fly by airfoils
the processes are not inherently equal

dave "i will not discuss TORG physics, i will not discuss..." oakes

Newsgroups: alt.games.torg
From: GEOFFREY PARSONS <parsogd@WKUVX1.BITNET>
Subject: unsubscribe
X-Gated-By: The Black Marble Wombat@morticia.cnns.unt.edu
X-Gated-From: torg mailing list
Organization: University of North Texas
X-Gatemail-Version: 1.0b
Date: Tue, 7 Apr 1992 19:43:56 GMT

unsubscribe
From: rose@acf9.nyu.edu (David Rose)
Newsgroups: alt.games.torg
Subject: Re: MY VIEW: Cyberpapacy
Date: 6 Apr 92 18:00:03 GMT
Article-I.D.: acf9.rose.702583203
Organization: New York University

Rick Jones <albert@CRICK.SSCTR.BCM.TMC.EDU> writes:

>	I think faith chips and homers are almost SOP in the Cyberpapacy.
>Cortex bombs are just a favorite of mine ;-).

  I'm not sure that I understand faith chips.  Homers as SOP would require
computer assisted tracking, and I doubt that more than 1% of those records
are ever looked at.  The important thing is not to get caught.  If they
know who you are, your ass is grass.  Until they do, you are relatively
safe.

>>   Not necessarily.  A lot of religious functions ask of their believers
>> more than what the believers actually deliver.  The cyberpapacy asks
>> you to sign your soul away, but it's only a piece of paper so long as
>> they don't find out and you don't believe.

>	But, they can check.  The hospital may have a cyberpriest
>who will try to bless the faithful.  If the person doesn't have 
>faith, the priest will sense that he did not provide faith, and 
>may have an "indoctriation session" to make sure that the 'faithful'
>appreciate what has been given to them.

  Absolutely.

  In my original conception, it took faith to use high technology anyway.
The only way around this would be to create a contradiction.  Hence,
high tech PRCs from another cosm would be very out of place in this
cosm.  Kind of like a necromancer walking down the streets of Houston.
The religious establishment would be hostilely inclined to others using
non-sanctioned technology within their realm.  The advantage would be
that an outsider, by entering a supposedly closed system via a contradiction
would be untraceable by the authorities.  In return for this kind of
immunity, the PRCs would have to travel incognito and preferably would
connect with one of the underground anti-establishment groups.

  However
I never saw faith in the religion as necessarily meaning that one had
been corrupted by the CyberPope.  One could believe faithfully in the
Cyberpope, but also believe that the Inquisition was a corrupt organization
which had betrayed the trust of the CyberPope and must be resisted.

  I wonder what would happen for such a believer to discover the cold
truth of who Jean Malreux I is.  I suspect that I would play that they
would have a crisis of faith (faith role with some difficulty) which if
they won, they would be permitted to retain their faith as well as the
believe that the Church is corrupt.  Such a person would be able to
spearhead a religious revolution to overthrow the anti-pope from his
usurped office.

  
--
David Rose
Courant Institute of Mathematical Sciences
251 Mercer Street, New York, NY 10012
rose@math12.cims.nyu.edu
From: jogle@nrao.edu (Jim Ogle (Ks. Jim))
Newsgroups: alt.games.torg
Subject: Re: How do axioms really work?
Date: 7 Apr 92 06:39:17 GMT
Article-I.D.: zia.1992Apr7.063917.11269
Reply-To: jogle@nrao.edu
Organization: National Radio Astronomy Observatory

In article 702615369@acf9, rose@acf9.nyu.edu (David Rose) writes:

>  Then again, I've always been confused between disconnection and
>transformation anyway.  (If you disconnect, you are no longer able
>to relate yourself to the unliving objects in the old way.  But where
>does this leave the unliving object which caused the disconnection?
>If it is still in the old axiom set, then there should be no effect upon
>passive contradictions.)

The item itself will remain at the 'old axiom' level unless it is transformed 
to the new reality (takes time or a really bitchin' die roll by the GM).

Disconnection affects how a person can use an item, not what happens to
the item (that's transformation), which is what makes the armor rule
a weird thing to think about; if two guys go into the Living Land and one
is wearing kevlar armor and disconnects the armor is now not as effective
as it used to be.  But if the still-connected guy takes the armor from his pal
and puts it on (and doesn't disconnect) it works like normal so obviously
there has been no actual transformation of the armor just yet (unless you 
want to rule that it transforms back as well).

---
Kansas Jim (Jim Ogle, Torg guru)
jogle@nrao.edu (NRAO-VLBA, Socorro New Mexico)
"I'd be apathetic if I cared."
Newsgroups: alt.games.torg
From: Z_COPEAB@CCSVAX.SFASU.EDU (BRANDON COPE)
Subject: shapeshifters again...
X-Gated-By: The Black Marble Wombat@morticia.cnns.unt.edu
X-Gated-From: torg mailing list
Organization: University of North Texas
X-Gatemail-Version: 1.0b
Date: Mon, 13 Apr 1992 14:24:42 GMT

Well, right after I send out the message, I check the rule book and find the
answer to my question. Unfortunately, I don't like the answer I see; causes a
contradiction in *every* cosm other than Orrosish? C'mon, that makes being a
shapeshifter almost worthless. The only realm/cosm you can use it in is the one
where the heroic feel of Torg is tossed out the window and characters are
supposed to die...

---------------------------------------------------------------------------
!  a generous and sadistic DM,  ! "Just a traveller, on an endless flight !
!	Brandon Cope		!  But no matter which way I turn, I      ! 
!-------------------------------!  	journey into the night;		  !
! a_copeab@ccsvax.sfasu.edu	!  Going round in circles, til the 	  !
! z_copeab@ccsvax.sfasu.edu	!	mountians fall,			  !
!-------------------------------!  To believe in so many truths,	  !
! "But ... but ..., it's NOT	!  Makes no sense at all,		  !
!  our fault!"			!  Makes no sense at all"	          !
!      Kei and/or Yuri		!	the Alan Parsons Project	  !
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: jberends@eagle.wesleyan.edu
Newsgroups: alt.games.torg
Subject: Pure/Mixed/Dominant Zone Question (New GM asking)
Date: 8 Apr 92 17:13:27 GMT
Article-I.D.: eagle.1992Apr8.121327.1
Organization: Wesleyan University

I haven't figured this out yet.  Is Core Earth mostly a pure zone?  If so, does
that mean that characters from different cosms are going to have a heck of a
lot of trouble in Core Earth?

Also, in a Living Land-Core Earth mixed zone, would casting high-axiom magic
 spells be very difficult? 

I'm probably being very dense, and i'm sure you've all discussed this before,
but i'd appreciate some help.

Thanks.

jan berends

jberends@eagle.wesleyan.edu
Newsgroups: alt.games.torg
From: Z_COPEAB@CCSVAX.SFASU.EDU (BRANDON COPE)
Subject: Re:  the working of axiom levels
X-Gated-By: The Black Marble Wombat@morticia.cnns.unt.edu
X-Gated-From: torg mailing list
Organization: University of North Texas
X-Gatemail-Version: 1.0b
Date: Tue, 14 Apr 1992 14:45:40 GMT

Consider the way axioms work changed in my campaigns then...
Newsgroups: alt.games.torg
From: bpostow@barney.oberlin.edu (Brian Postow)
Subject: questionere
Organization: Oberlin College Computer Science
Distribution: alt
Date: Fri, 17 Apr 1992 18:07:37 GMT

ok this is a questionere to find out what percentage of the groups
that post here actually have ROLE playing instead of

GM : there is somone dagerous off to the left.

Players : ok, we shoot him

battle, players win.

GM: ok, you wander around for 2 days until another bad guy shows up

Players : ok we shoot him

you get the picture...

So, send me mail. in it answer the question, but also, because I know
that some groups are represented severaltimes here... give some
indication of whose group you are in.. like usual players who post,
your GM(s) if poster(s)  etc...


thanks
--
Brian Postow :: The Pasta Knight - that noodle head in shiny armour
reachable at:
bpostow@occs.oberlin.edu
sbp2530@ocvaxa.cc.oberlin.edu		this space left unintentionally blank.
sbp2530@oberlin.bitnet.edu

Computer scientist do it backwards -- [Mathmatician's point of view]






Newsgroups: alt.games.torg
From: jogle@dopey.vlba.nrao.edu (Jim Ogle (Ks. Jim))
Subject: Re: unknown difficulty
X-Gated-By: The Black Marble Wombat@morticia.cnns.unt.edu
X-Gated-From: torg mailing list
Organization: University of North Texas
X-Gatemail-Version: 1.0b
Date: Thu, 16 Apr 1992 00:43:44 GMT

Trent writes:
 
> Ks. Jim writes:
> >But in a case where I (as GM) do not believe that the character can make an
> >accurate estimate on how difficult something is (like combat) I just don't
> >tell them.  It is up to the player to decide if the value he's generated is
> >good enough or if he needs to make it better with a card or PP.
> 
> This is good, but one should be careful not to underestimate a
> character's ability to guess the difficulty of something.  In combat,
> for example, I would think in most cases a character would be able to
> make an *approximate* guess of how difficult something is.  For
> example, if there is some, big, slow guy just standing there waiting
> to be hit, versus a dexterous guy hiding behind a rock and just
> occassionally popping his head out to take aim.

My players have gotten to be pretty good judges of Difficulty Numbers if
they fail on something a couple of times and then succeed (like in combat).
Likewise, most of them either know the situational modifiers (cover for
example) or have good ideas of how much more difficult certain things will
make an action.

But they never seem to think of things in the opposite direction (ie, if
they take cover it makes it harder for the NPC to shoot them!)  Well, 
Dave's character tends to take cover behind the other PCs but that doesn't
really count....  8-)

> So maybe the character shouldn't know the exact DN beforehand.  But
> if it's appropriate, the GM should say "a 13's not going to do it,
> but you seem close...", whereupon the player could quickly decide to
> "try harder".  This wouldn't, of course, work for something like shooting
> somebody, where the character might be able to tell after the shot that
> he "just missed", but wouldn't be able to do anything about it until the
> next action.

For actions where the characters have a reasonable chance to judge their
previous attempt(s) I will usually say something like "You didn't succeed
but you were awfully close - try again?"  I won't tell them anything until
they've decided whether or not to spend cards/Possibilities because I don't
want to influence their decisions one way or the other - after all, I could
tell them on every other die roll that they're close and get them to go
through their cards and PPs very quickly that way.


Kansas Jim (jogle@nrao.edu)
From: albert@chain.ssctr.bcm.tmc.edu (Rick Jones)
Newsgroups: alt.games.torg
Subject: Re: Axiom mania!
Date: 10 Apr 1992 21:02:55 GMT
Organization: Baylor College of Medicine

In article <rose.702936875@acf9> rose@acf9.nyu.edu (David Rose) writes:
>oakes@jupiter.nmt.edu (David Oakes) writes:
>  Relevant to this is that when LL creature discos in CE they are
>no longer able to use CE tech (as well as LL miracles) being constrained
>by the lowest of the two axiom systems.  It is like the LL creature is
>in a mini-cosm which is intersection of LL and CE.

	Wait, that's not true (I think).  The way I understand it, when 
you disconnect you must follow the local axioms.  So a LL discos in
CE, it can use a telephone or an AK-47, but not it's Hrockt Spear
miracle.
-- 
Rick Jones				Systems Support Center
albert@bcm.tmc.edu			Baylor College of Medicine
Voice: 713-798-7352			standard disclaimers apply
Thank you all for coming, I'll spend your money foolishly.-J.Buffett
Newsgroups: alt.games.torg
From: Clay Luther <cluther@morticia.cnns.unt.edu>
Subject: Gatemail/Gatenews report for Torg List
X-Gated-By: The Black Marble Wombat@morticia.cnns.unt.edu
X-Gated-From: torg mailing list
Organization: University of North Texas
X-Gatemail-Version: 1.0b
Date: Wed, 8 Apr 1992 19:55:21 GMT


Here is the latest gate report for the Torg List.  Gatemail refers to traffic
coming from the mailing list end of the List and being transported onto News.
Gatenews refers to news articles being transported to the list.

Obviously, from these statistics one can infer the following:

The majority of Torg readers use mail rather than news.
Whether the articles are news or mail based, they are roughly the same size,
though mail articles appear slightly larger.

Anomolies:

This last month we had about 40 bounces transferred to from from to news.  This
bounces skew the figures slightly in favor of mail, but I don't think their 
overall impact is that great.

My conclusions:

The Torg list is healthy and active.  Well done, Torgphiles.

[Note:  when counting lines and bytes, header information is ignored.]

Gatemail/Gatenews report.
Date: Wed Apr  8 14:48:30 CDT 1992

Gatemail statistics since Tue Jan 28 14:33:55 CST 1992
  Number of articles gated: 1111
  Total number of lines gated: 44848
  Total number of bytes gated: 2120.8K (2171723 bytes)
  Average number of lines per article: 40.4
  Average number of bytes per article: 1.9K

Gatenews statistics since Tue Jan 28 15:00:02 CST 1992
  Number of articles gated: 255
  Total number of lines gated: 9261
  Total number of bytes gated: 420.1K (430146 bytes)
  Average number of lines per article: 36.3
  Average number of bytes per article: 1.6K


-- 
Clay W. Luther                  cluther@morticia.cnns.unt.edu
System Manager                  Center for Network Neuroscience
University of North Texas       PO Box 5218 Denton, Texas 76203
817/565-3896,3472               aka. Malraux@GodNet (Bushashuru!)
From: rose@acf9.nyu.edu (David Rose)
Newsgroups: alt.games.torg
Subject: Re: Proposed Skills Info Template
Date: 11 Apr 92 16:08:48 GMT
Organization: New York University

bpostow@occs.cs.oberlin.edu (Brian Postow) writes:

>it works, but I have one word:
>WHY????????
>it just doesn't seem very useful/to constricting...

  Perhaps I should have explained.  I want the template because IMNSHO
the layout of the Skills references in the Rulebook are a pile of shit.
The template is for personal reference work, and what I want to know is
if I have covered all of the information about a skill on the template.

  Also, this way the template holds the common difficulty modifiers, so
that making up adventures will be more straightforward.

  Also, with this template to work off of, I think I will have an easier
time inventing new skills.

  But no template will EVER replace judgement in how skills may be
applied.


--
David Rose
Courant Institute of Mathematical Sciences
251 Mercer Street, New York, NY 10012
rose@math12.cims.nyu.edu
Newsgroups: alt.games.torg
From: oakes@jupiter.nmt.edu (David Oakes)
Subject: one more trick shot
X-Gated-By: The Black Marble Wombat@morticia.cnns.unt.edu
X-Gated-From: torg mailing list
Organization: University of North Texas
X-Gatemail-Version: 1.0b
Date: Sun, 5 Apr 1992 19:10:07 GMT

since clay fixed the list, and then had to fix the list,
i am resending this reply on trick shots
 ! Michael(of the no email adress Michaels) suggests:
 !  ! Try this:
 !  ! 
 !  ! Levels of fire combat may be used for any of the following:
 !  ! 
 !  ! 1. One level may be used for a +1 to hit, OR
 !  ! 
 !  ! 2. One level may be used to bank a shot off a convinient object
 !  ! 	(Subject to what nearby objects can bank the attack)
 ! makes banking almost trivial
 ! (to hit something after bouncing is near impossible,
 !  unless of course you are Captin America...)
 !  ! 		OR
 !  ! 3. Normally, two levels may be used for +1 to damage. 
 !  ! 
 !  ! 	In some cosms, one level may be used for +1 dmg.
 !  !
 !  ! This gives people a reason to take lots of adds. I got this
 !  ! idea from hero, incidently. (Uses for a skill level)
 ! 
 ! i am not fond of this, since high skill already translates to damage
 ! (as a matter of fact, we have a house rule that makes high skill
 !  even deadlier than a Big Gun (tm - tharkold)! ask Jim for specifics)
 ! and i am not going for "any hard shot makes for more damage"
 ! as vital blow does
 ! (of course in TORG, any hard shot DOES make for more damage...)
 ! 
 ! i think i will just go with multi-action 
 ! (which penalizes effect as well as skill?)
 ! and the occasional difficulty modifier
 ! (which i would make penalize effect as well)
 ! 
 ! dave "i cant think any more" oakes

dave "brain still dead" oakes

Newsgroups: alt.games.torg
From: Z_COPEAB@CCSVAX.SFASU.EDU (BRANDON COPE)
Subject: Re: unknown difficulty
X-Gated-By: The Black Marble Wombat@morticia.cnns.unt.edu
X-Gated-From: torg mailing list
Organization: University of North Texas
X-Gatemail-Version: 1.0b
Date: Thu, 16 Apr 1992 03:11:17 GMT

No, I think that if they fail, they can immediately use a possibility, if they
desire. the examples in the rule book seem to pooint in this direction.
Newsgroups: alt.games.torg