HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: sandee@Think.COM (Daan Sandee)
Newsgroups: rec.heraldry
Subject: Re: Irvine Clan Heraldry
Date: 13 Nov 1992 18:29:54 GMT
Organization: TMC
Distribution: world
NNTP-Posting-Host: telecaster.think.com

In article <g4r1n2m@rpi.edu>, habura@vccnorthb.its.rpi.edu (Andrea Marie Habura) writes:
|> There are actually two kinds of "proper". The first is as you describe: an
|> object in its natural colors. A deer proper is brown, for example.
|> 
|> The second type of proper means "in specifically defined tinctures". A 
|> rose proper isn't pinkish, like a "real" rose; it's gules, barbed (sepaled)
|> vert, and seeded Or. A Cornish chough proper has a black body, red beak and
|> red legs. A sword proper is argent hilted Or. All use only heraldic tinctures,
|> but in a set pattern. 

Myself a student of birds rather than heraldry, I can assure you that a
Chough (Pyrrhocorax pyrrhocorax), which formerly occurred in Cornwall, but
in more recent times is confined to Wales, does have a red beak and red legs,
so here the first definition of "proper" applies.

Daan Sandee                                           sandee@think.com
Thinking Machines Corporation
Cambridge, Mass 02142                                 (617) 234-5044
Newsgroups: rec.heraldry
From: badger@wixer.cactus.org (Badger)
Subject: Re: Fields of green (and blue, or gold and silver)
Organization: Real/Time Communications
Date: Wed, 11 Nov 92 01:03:07 GMT

In article <721291384snx@sloth.equinox.gen.nz> bloodthorn@sloth.equinox.gen.nz (Jennifer Geard) writes:
>
>Fields of two metals or two tinctures:
>

i	Deleted, discussion of divided fields in two colors or metals

>
>Does this form a general guideline?  Does it apply to lozengy and chequey 
>fields?  And if not, why not?
>
>________________________________________________________________________ 
>Jennifer Geard                         bloodthorn@sloth.equinox.gen.nz 
>Christchurch, New Zealand 

	Yes, Divided fields may be of two colors or two metals. And, yes,
the argument holds for lozengy and chequey.


-- 
| Kenneth W. Scott        | Lord Gunter von Wissenberg  | Azure, a badger's   |
| Badger                  | Collegium Turris Animarum   | head erased Or      | 
| (Meles meles)           | In the Barony of Bryn Gwlad | masked sable, within|
| badger@wixer.cactus.org | In the Kingdom of Ansteorra | an orle Or. (I hope)|
Newsgroups: rec.heraldry
From: atterlep@vela.acs.oakland.edu (Cardinal Ximenez)
Subject: Re: Irvine Clan Heraldry
Organization: National Association for the Disorganized
Date: Thu, 12 Nov 1992 23:38:07 GMT

In article <BxKDox.DFM@news.cso.uiuc.edu> irvine@uxh.cso.uiuc.edu (Brent Irvine) writes:

>1.  How can I properly describe the coat of arms for the Irvine Clan?
>	In non-heraldic terms it is:
>
>	A white field, with a wide red stripe horizontally in the middle
>	with clusters of Holly (2 equally spaced apart above the red, 
>	and one centered below the red stripe).

  This is described heraldically ("blazoned") as 

	Argent, a fess gules between three sprigs of holly proper (?).

  "Argent" is silver or white, the color of the field.  A horizontal stripe in
the middle of the field is a "fess," and "gules" is the heraldic term for red.
The position of the holly clusters is standard for three objects on a field.
  I would need a little more detail to be sure that the holly is properly 
described.  If there are green leaves and red berries, the description is
accurate.  If there are just clusters of berries, it would be better to
describe them as "clusters of holly berries" (or an equivalent term) "gules."

  From what I know of the rules of Scots heraldry, these are not the arms of 
the "Irvine clan" but the arms of an individual named Irvine (presumably the
nearest male-line descendant of the first person to bear these arms.)  Arms 
belong to individuals, not families, and it is presumptuous for anyone to 
bear arms that are not personally theirs.  In the US it is merely rude, but 
Scotland is the only nation that actually takes legal action against people
who wear arms they do not have.

Alan Terlep				        "Please don't shoot us--
Oakland University, Rochester, MI	         we're trying to help."
atterlep@vela.acs.oakland.edu		     --Real public service announcement
Rushing in where angels fear to tread.		    for the Serbian Red Cross
	

Newsgroups: rec.heraldry
From: velde2@jhunix.hcf.jhu.edu (Velde Francois)
Subject: Re: What's encimee?
Organization: HAC - Johns Hopkins University, Baltimore
Date: Fri, 13 Nov 1992 22:40:28 GMT

In article <1992Nov13.191644.21401@jhunix.hcf.jhu.edu> I write:
>An example is the arms of 
>La Rochefoucauld, one of the oldest families in France. Again,
>pardon my ineptitude as I translate the blazon: fessy (?) of 8
>Argent and Azure, with 3 chevrons Gules, the top one ecime.

It should read: barry of 10 Argent and Azure, 3 chevrons Gules, the
first ecime.  Apologies to all you heralds, and to the La Rochefoucauld
family.

-- 

	Francois Velde

Newsgroups: rec.heraldry,rec.org.sca
From: habura@vccnorthb.its.rpi.edu (Andrea Marie Habura)
Subject: Re: Byzantine Flags, and Another Question
Organization: Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute, Troy, NY
Date: Thu, 12 Nov 1992 13:35:52 GMT

Heraldry stuff:

The flag you mention is very likely NOT the Byzantine flag. (It is, however,
the flag of the modern country of Albania.) The Byzantine flags I've seen
have a cross between four objects that look like capital B's. (They are 
probably firesteels.)

Byzantine heraldry: Durned if I know. My guess is probably that they did,
since they interacted at least occasionally with Europe, but I haven't come
across any examples of Byzantine heraldry other than the flag I mentioned
above.

Gerrattie: No, there's no way to specify the number of charges in a semy in
SCA armory, since we've based our practice on English heraldry, which does
not make the distinction either. I am given to understand that Danish
heraldry *does* distinguish between semy in a regular pattern and the
random-scatter method.

Alison MacDermot
(Heraldry Addict)

Newsgroups: rec.heraldry
From: esharp@sage.cc.purdue.edu (The Baker)
Subject: Germany
Organization: Purdue University Computing Center
Distribution: all
Date: Sun, 8 Nov 1992 03:26:54 GMT

 I need the address of the German Arms register, or whatever the office
that serves that function is called.  I had an old address, but I lost
it a few monts ago.  If it helps any, the area I need information for
is S.W. Germany (Kaiserslautern, Bad D"urkheim).
Thanks,
Edwin
esharp@sage.cc.purdue.edu

Newsgroups: rec.heraldry
From: jogulin@pub_one.fia.dmg.ml.com (Milamber)
Subject: Starfire Swords...
Organization: The Rift from Here to There
Distribution: usa
Date: Thu, 5 Nov 1992 15:51:56 GMT

Sorry to post this here, but I lost the person's e-mail address.

For those looking for the above-named company, here's the address:

	Starfire Swords, Ltd.
	PO Box 74
	Spencer, NY 14883

	(607) 589-7244
	(607) 589-6630 FAX

-- 
==> "You never f**king know the answer when it's important." --The Doctor <==
Joe Ogulin

jogulin@camelot.fia.dmg.ml.com		joe@stardock.pilot.dmg.ml.com
jogulin@apollo.stevens-tech.edu		gcs_jogulin@stevens.bitnet

Disclaimer:  The above article is solely my opinion and does not necessar-
ily reflect that of my employer.  The content is my responsibility alone.
Xref: sparky rec.heraldry:351 rec.org.sca:15727
From: velde2@jhunix.hcf.jhu.edu (Velde Francois)
Newsgroups: rec.heraldry,rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: Byzantine Flags, and Another Question
Date: 12 Nov 92 14:39:03 GMT
Organization: HAC - Johns Hopkins University, Baltimore

In article <h4q19zn@rpi.edu> habura@vccnorthb.its.rpi.edu (Andrea Marie Habura) writes:
>
>The flag you mention is very likely NOT the Byzantine flag. (It is, however,
>the flag of the modern country of Albania.) The Byzantine flags I've seen
>have a cross between four objects that look like capital B's. (They are 
>probably firesteels.)
Actually, they are B's, and stand for the Greek phrase: "basileus basileuoon
basileuoon basileuontoon" = king of kings ruling over the rulers. (I transcribe
omega with "oo").
I am not saying they are not firesteels, or were not also construed as
such: and I seem to remember that the emblems on the Golden Fleece chain 
were an allusion to Byzantium.
As I recall, the flag is Gules, a cross and 4 B's Or.

>Byzantine heraldry: Durned if I know. My guess is probably that they did,
>since they interacted at least occasionally with Europe, but I haven't come
>across any examples of Byzantine heraldry other than the flag I mentioned
>above.

I don't know either. I do remember one thing: the Comnene family, which 
ruled Byzantium for a time, later emigrated to Corsica, where they still
lived in the 18th century: their arms were a double-headed eagle pierced
by a sword through the heart, which I thought was very moving.

-- 

	Francois Velde
From: bloodthorn@sloth.equinox.gen.nz (Jennifer Geard)
Newsgroups: rec.heraldry
Subject: Fields of green (and blue, or gold and silver)
Date: Mon, 09 Nov 92 06:43:04 GMT
Distribution: world
Organization: Lethargy Inc.


Fields of two metals or two tinctures:

I've been talking about this lately, and could do with some advice.  It's 
been my understanding that when the field is divided into equal parts the 
parts are considered to be side-by-side rather than charged on top of each 
other, so they can be colour-and-metal, colour-and-colour, or metal-and-
metal.  Fox-Davies says "... a field can be and often is barry of two colours 
or two metals..." and goes on to assert that there must, in modern heraldry, 
be equal numbers of pieces (p 120 of the 1978 reprint of the 1909 edn).  

Does this form a general guideline?  Does it apply to lozengy and chequey 
fields?  And if not, why not?

________________________________________________________________________ 
Jennifer Geard                         bloodthorn@sloth.equinox.gen.nz 
Christchurch, New Zealand 
Newsgroups: rec.running
From: lorenzo@rintintin.Colorado.EDU (Eric J. Lorenzo)
Subject: Re: Semi-vegi diet
Organization: University of Colorado, Boulder
Date: Tue, 10 Nov 1992 15:39:53 GMT

In article <721383316.525.0@glycol.ucc.andrew.cmu.edu> Pomona Anupol Valero 
<penguin+@CMU.EDU> writes:


>I'm not sure, but then, if I'm wrong, I'm sure someone out there will
>correct me.  ;) Anyway, what red meat has over poultry is higher
>protein and iron content.  

	That's true, but that is why you have to make sure you are getting
enough protein and iron through otherways.  I've always heard that the iron
and protein content in red meat is very high anyways.  Much more then you could
use if you eat it everday.  I think I would rather eat more poultry then
get more protein and iron from red meat which has a lot of highly saturated
animal fat.

>
>About pork, I grew up thinking that it was red meat.  Then, when I met
>my ex-roommate, he told me that pork is white meat and that it's good
>for you.  (My Mom always avoided having pork at home for meals, she
>always (and still does) said that it's very unhealthy and promotes
>high blood pressure.)  Any comments on this?

	I don't eat pork just, because I don't like the taste.  Bacon is
horrible. I don't like ham.  Pork chops, etc. always seem just as
fatty as a peice of steak.  Other then taste, I have nothing against pork.

	Just wanted to add another 0.02.

Thanks for the time,
-- 
       --    O          The thrill is                   Eric J. Lorenzo
     ---   </\_      not just in winning,       lorenzo@Rintintin.Colorado.EDU
   ----  -\/\         but in the courage                  also @UCSU
      ---   /_         to join the race    -?               & @Spot
From: lyndw@pogo.wv.tek.com (Lynd Wieman;685-3751;63-356;LP=A;P0HG)
Newsgroups: rec.running
Subject: Re: Tight calf muscles
Date: 5 Nov 92 16:37:31 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: Tektronix, Inc., Wilsonville, OR.

In article <ack.720826401@mwunix>, ack@mwunix.mitre.org (James Ackermann) writes:
	.
	.
	.
|> Whenever she runs, her right calf muscle gradually tightens up
|> until she can't run any longer.  The problem showed up a couple
|> of months ago, and for a while was so bad that she couldn't go
|> more than 1/4 mile.  She took a couple of weeks off and was able
|> to do 4 miles yesterday, but at the end the muscle was tightening
|> up again.

Well, maybe it's just me but that is the symptom I get when it's time
to buy new shoes.  I can't explain it, but my calves and shins start
hurting and I buy new shoes and it stops.  This happens long before
my shoes start looking worn out.  I assume they start getting compressed
and lose their cushioning ability.

So what do you do with a bunch of decent looking but essentially unusable
running shoes?  I can only use so many pairs of mud and mountain bike
shoes.

Lynd
Newsgroups: rec.running
From: mathelmr@nuscc.nus.sg (Helmer Aslaksen)
Subject: Re: Persistent Quadricep Muscle Soreness
Organization: National University of Singapore
Date: Sun, 8 Nov 1992 00:58:16 GMT

In article <1992Nov6.150003.22801@nntpserver.chevron.com
>apejfr@usht02.hou130.chevron.com (Edward Fry) writes: 
>
>Ever since a hard 20 km race four week ago, my quads have
>felt tired or "dead" with low-level, deep soreness.  I have been 
> 
>I do not experience any real pain the few times I have tried to run,
>but my quads feel fatigued, tight, with a low-level ache right from the
>start of the run.  This condition does not seem to get better or worse
>as I run.  I can find no specific locations on the muscles that are
>extremely sore, but with deep massage and manipulation can find soreness
>in many places.

>--Ed Fry
>--apejfr@usht02.hou130.chevron.com

This reminds me of a problem I had last year. My quads were simply
chronically tired and even one whole week of rest did not improve it.
i often felt worst right after I had rested, like getting up in the
morning or raising from a chair. I tried all kinds of things, but
finally I spoke to a friend who told me that he had had a similar
problem. He had gone to a doctor who had diagnosed it as a back
problem, and told him to do lots of situps. I started doing lots up
situps and also some quad exercises, and after 2 days I woke up with
no tiredness!

This may sound strange, but it is beginning to make sense to me. after
20 years of unning, I've finally begun to realize how important simple
strenght exercises are for runners. It also shows how unbalanzed
muscle strength can lead to strange symptoms. Let me give two other
examples.  

I was having some fairly chronic Achilles problem. I tried treating
the tendon in the usual ways, but one day I suddenly realized that I
was very sore at the point where the tendon joins the calf muscle. I
masaged that point a lot, and my pain (near the heel) went away. That
made me realize that maybe it wasn't really a problem with the tendon,
but a problem with the muscle. so I started doing lots of calf
exercises, and it solved the problem.

Recently, I'v ehad chronic pain in my hamstring. I've tried stretching
a lot, and it help a little, but recently I went back to doing lots of
quad exercises, and it seems to improve a lot.

By the way, let me recommend a book by Judy Alter, Surviving Exercise.
--
Helmer Aslaksen
Department of Mathematics
National University of Singapore
Singapore 0511
Republic of Singapore
mathelmr@nuscc.nus.sg
From: robin@fisher.bio.uci.edu (Robin Bush)
Newsgroups: rec.running
Subject: Re: Shin Splints - what are they?
Date: 9 Nov 92 23:57:50 GMT
Reply-To: robin@fisher.bio.uci.edu

In article <1992Nov9.175821.21769@lambda.msfc.nasa.gov>  writes:
> Just like the subject line says -
> what are they? 
> 
> and more importantly, how do I get rid of them? 
> 
I  finally got rid of my shin splints. Got them last spring.  I was in  
good shape from running and doing aerobics, but got them sprinting on a  
hard track.  First I quit both running and aerobics. Felt better. Then I  
got new shoes and tried slow jogging on grass. Still hurt. Then I got new  
aerobics shoes and tried just doing aerobics. Still hurt. So I quit  
aerobics and just swam. Felt better, but I hate swimming. Went back to  
aerobics and they came back. Took a rest and did exercises where you put  
your foot through a big rubber band, attach it to a sofa leg, and do a  
million  pull-backs.   Now after one month of this and  only  low impact  
aerobics they are finally gone. This pisses me off, as last spring I was  
doing very active exercise 6 days a week, and now have spent 6 months  
screwing around with this, to end up  only feeling OK at what I consider a  
very low activity level. I have been gaining weight and feeling old.   I  
guess I will try upping things slowly and see if I can  get back to where  
I was.  What a discouraging series of events. 

Good Luck. There is a section in the FAQ on this that I found helpful. You  
can get it from yserrano@us.oracle.com

----------------------------------------------------------
Robin
Newsgroups: rec.running
From: hyx1@cunixb.cc.columbia.edu (Harry Y Xu)
Subject: Re: Tight calf muscles
Reply-To: hyx1@cunixb.cc.columbia.edu (Harry Y Xu)
Organization: Columbia University
Date: Sun, 8 Nov 1992 00:33:02 GMT

lyndw@pogo.wv.tek.com (Lynd Wieman;685-3751;63-356;LP=A;P0HG) writes:
>
>to buy new shoes.  I can't explain it, but my calves and shins start
>hurting and I buy new shoes and it stops.  This happens long before

Oh, maybe this explains my tight calf problem.
This problem started bothering me nearly a month ago.  My orthopedist (very 
competent) couldn't quite figure out what the cause was, only advised me to
rest more and cut down on mileage.  My shoes (Nike Air-Pagasus and Rebok 
Ventilator) are over a years old (don't remember exactly) and the heels are
a bit worn out.
Maybe I should try a new pair.  But then I'll probably need to save for
a few monthes before I come up with the dollar.  :(
Happy running,
Harry Xu  (KB2LHA)        hyx1@cunixb.cc.columbia.edu
Newsgroups: rec.running
From: preston@miranda.cs.rice.edu (Preston Briggs)
Subject: Re: New York Marathon accident?
Organization: Rice University, Houston
Date: Fri, 6 Nov 1992 20:55:06 GMT

minow@apple.com (Martin Minow) writes:

>Both problems have occurred in other races (for example, the duel between
>Salazar and Durden at Boston in, umm, 1982 or thereabouts when Durden was
>blocked off by a gaggle of motorcycle policemen "accompaning" Salazar to
>the finish).

Was Dick Beardsly rather than Benji Durden, but there was certainly a
problem.  Another example from Boston was back in the 70's, when Bill
Rogers beat Jeff Wells by 2 seconds, though Jeff was able to
successfully hurdle a motorcycle (try that after 26 miles, ouch).

Basically, nobody ever seems to do anything about these incidents.
After all, what can you do?  Make 'em run it again?

Preston Briggs
Newsgroups: rec.running
From: rmarshal@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (Rick Marshall)
Subject: running watches
Organization: The Ohio State University
Distribution: usa
Date: Fri, 6 Nov 1992 15:05:41 GMT


Does anyone have experience with the Lorus Trailmaster (30-lap memory
etc.) advertised in the Fall/Winter Road Runner Sports catalog?  Looks
like the buttons may not be as convenient as on the Timex Ironman.  Any
thoughts on how the other features compare?

Also, does anyone have the address of Asics' Customer Relations?

Thanks in advance!

====
Rick
From: A.M.T.Bell@daresbury.ac.uk (A.M.T. Bell)
Newsgroups: rec.running
Subject: Oregon running
Date: 11 Nov 92 10:28:24 GMT
Reply-To: atb@gserv1.dl.ac.uk
Organization: Daresbury Laboratory, UK


Hi

I hope to visit a friend in Oregon in late spring/early summer of
next year and I'd like to combine the trip with some races. 
Anyone out there know details of Oregon races at this time of
year? If so could you please email details to me.

many thanks

tony bell                 ! keep on running   live long and prosper
serc daresbury laboratory ! "back off man, i'm a scientist"
atb@uk.ac.dl.gserv1       ! bill murray - ghostbusters
From: jbuddenberg@vax.muskingum.edu
Newsgroups: rec.running
Subject: rec.running
Date: 10 Nov 92 16:44:45 GMT
Organization: Muskingum College



I just wanted so say how proud of my brother I am.  This past weekend he won
the Ohio State Cross-Country Championship in division II.  He ran 15:42 for 5K
and he is only a junior in high school.  

                        Congratulations Mike !


jbuddenberg@vax.cns.muskingum.edu
Newsgroups: rec.running
From: craigb@rs6222.ecs.rpi.edu (Brian Craig)
Subject: Mass XC State results
Organization: Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute, Troy, NY
Distribution: rec.running
Date: Fri, 13 Nov 1992 15:32:45 GMT

Could someone either posts the results of the Mass state high school XC meet oremail them to me  at craigb@rpi.edu   I do not need a complete list just the 
top 5 or so finishers including the teams. This is for DIV 1.

	
						Thanks very much
					          
Newsgroups: rec.running
From: raym@runner.asd.sgi.com (Raymond Mascia)
Subject: Re: Flat Footed Runner
Organization: Silicon Graphics, Inc.
Date: Mon, 9 Nov 1992 21:11:56 GMT

In article <1992Nov9.183329.13124@cs.ucla.edu>, page@ficus.cs.ucla.edu (Thomas Page) writes:
|> > Does anyone have ideas on why or why not it would be
|> >good to use one's running shoes as walking shoes in between runs?
|> >Should I avoid this or is it "ok"?
|> 
|> Most of the books recommend that you not use your current running shoes as
|> daily wear shoes.  This is because the mid-sole becomes crushed and requires
|> time between runs to regain its cushioning.  Could be true.  Most of us runners
|> have between 1 and 15 old pairs of running shoes in the closet that have lost
|> too much cushioning to use for running but are still find for regular wear.  So,
|> there is really no need to risk wearing your current running shoes for anything
|> but running.
|> 
|> Tom

I disagree Tom, old running shoes are especially likely to no longer 
provide a flat base for the leg/knee. To continuously wear them is
the way to continuously put unnatural stress on the leg. 

It's like running on the right hand shoulder, crown, of the road
consistantly. Eventually it will cause strain and pain.

Ray
Newsgroups: rec.running
From: paul@panix.com (Paul Gatker)
Subject: X-Country Course @Van Cortland Pk, NYC?
Date: Thu, 12 Nov 1992 16:24:35 GMT
Organization: PANIX Public Access Unix, NYC

 There's a big age group x-country event coming up Sunday at Van Cortland
Park in NYC.

 I'm thinking of running it and was wondering if anyone can describe the
course as far as how risky it is to get injured in such an event on this
course. 

 I've never run x-country and I'm not familiar with this course. I'd hate to
end a long injury free season with a turned ankle (which i'm slightly prone
to). 

 Thanks for info asap. The race is in 3 days from now (Thurs).


-- 
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Newsgroups: rec.running