From: Steve.Gross@bbs.oit.unc.edu (Steve Gross)
Newsgroups: talk.religion.misc
Subject: Re: The problem of evil
Date: 26 Aug 92 19:25:45 GMT
Organization: Extended Bulletin Board Service


Steve Adams writes about what steve.gross said:

---- Hello Mr. Adams, nice to be hearing from you again.
(sfg)



>>BTW:
>>Thank you Mr. Adams for the ex nihilo thing again, but it is a silly question.
>>If I can think of a reason for evil existing, then surely God has a better
>>one. 
>
>Well, I said that none of these things came into being without God.   I
>also said that I think that you believe that God created everything ex-nihilo 
>(out of nothing).  If this is the case, how do you conclude that he didn't
>create evil?
>
>In other words, if there was notghing, and now there is evil, it had to be
>created, right? 

---- I disagree.  Evil does not necessarily have to be created.  it can
form and then manifest itself in any person or thing that is capable of
thought, and feeling.  As is the case in the OT where sin was found in
Satan.  He was certainly capable of thought, and could feel.  I submit
that God created him totally good, and that through the feeling of
jealousy, sin formed, and manifested itself in the form of eventual evil.
(sfg)


 >>Also BTW:
>>The passages in Isaiah never say that God created evil, only darkness
>>according to your translations of the verses.  God simply CANNOT be
>>responsible for evil.  If he is, then the whole of the bible is false.  I
>>refuse to accept that.
>
>Here are the Isaiah verses again, from 3 translations:
>
>Isaiah 45:7
>
>   "I form the light and create darkness, I bring prosperity and create
>    disaster;  I, the Lord do all these things." [NIV]
>
>   "The One forming light and creating darkness, Causing wwll-being and
>    creating calamity; I am the Lord who does all these." [NASB]
>
>   "I form light and create darkness, I make weal and create woe; I
>    the Lord do all these things." [NRSV]
>
>
>You seem to have missed the second part of each verse!  Here, I'll break it
>out:
>
>NIV : bring prosperity, create disaster
>NAS : cause well-being, create calamity
>NRSV: make weal, create woe
>
>You can't deny this and still hold that you follow the Bible!  God himself
>says that he creates 'disaster' or 'calamity' or 'woe'.  Sounds fairly
>clear.

---- To which I heartily agree.  I still assert, however, that God neither
is, nor can ever be held responsible for EVIL.  for disaster, yes.  for
calamity, yes.  for woe, yes.  BUT NOT FOR EVIL.
(sfg)


>God MUST be responsible for evil!  He must!  Otherwise you are giving the
>power to create ex-nihilo to some other being!  We aren't to *blame* God,
>but He is responsible for evil existing.  The blame falls upon us, since it
>is we who chose to sin.
>
> -Steve

---- Not giving the credit, or power to some other being, just attributing
the ability to choose to an angelic being.  God doesn't HAVE to be
responsible for anything.  As I said before, the ability was present in
all the angelic beings, but as the Bible records it, only Lucipher
exhibited signs of jealousy, only Lucipher had the desire to be like unto
God.  The reasoning for this is simple.  Lucipher was the closest thing to
God at that time, and was jealous.  Because of his jealousy, sin started
to form in him.  because of the sin found in Lucipher, he was cast out of
heaven.  Because he was cast out of heaven, he harboured even more
jealousy for God, coupled with hate, etc... .  Lucipher is dubbed God of
this world when Adam falls.  Because of Adam's fall, humanity is under the
control of Satan, who is now evil.  Never once did God MAKE evil.  never
once was God responsible for evil's origins.  If indeed God can be blames
for anything, it would be that he created the angels, specifically
Lucipher with the ability to think and feel.
(sfg)

Steve.Gross

--
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