HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: battlec@cs.rpi.edu (Clark Battle)
Subject: Re: Wakeman v. Emerson
Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1992 16:38:37 GMT

In article <BxxszJ.CAy@mentor.cc.purdue.edu>, memmer@sage.cc.purdue.edu (John Memmer) writes:

|> Favorite and technically the best and (going with the spirit of this group)
|> the most symphonic:
|> 
|>                    Neil Peart. Hands down.
|> 
|> And don't get me wrong; I really enjoy Yes, but Neil just has that "edge" that
|> I, as a percussionist, can appreciate. 
|> 
|> Bill is a great drummer, though!
|> 

Neil is an excellent drummer BUT...

	I have been to 3 rush concerts and heard several bootleg tapes
	and it apperars to me that he plays the same solo every concert.
	This is the only flaw I can find with Rush as a whole, Their
	concerts are so well practiced that there's no room for spontenaity.
	Bill Bruford can improvize circles around neil peart.
Organization: University of Maine System
Date: Saturday, 21 Nov 1992 12:43:27 EST
From: <IO21145@MAINE.MAINE.EDU>
Newsgroups: alt.rock-n-roll.symphonic
Subject: Re: turbulence

Turbulence is very solid.....  It doesn't find any new ground
for Steve, but it does reinforce his status as Rock Guitarist
extrodinare! - Quite a few of the themes (or "licks" if you like)
 can be found on the Union ABWH tracks, so one might wonder of
the true identity, or where the material rightfully belongs.
But overall, I'd say it's a good listen... lyrical and expressive
in the spirit of Yes.. Guitar driven!
Newsgroups: alt.rock-n-roll.symphonic
From: fineston@pop.cis.yale.edu (Jason Finestone)
Subject: Listener's guide to Yes
Followup-To: alt.rock-n-roll.symphonic
Organization: Yale University
Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1992 00:10:50 GMT

  In response to the 'Yes newbie' posts, I would like to share with all the
recipe for loving Yes that I discovered years ago.  When I first bought a
CD player, I decided that I would make my first CD purchase, Big Generator.
 I had heard it at a friend's house, who was already well into every phase
of Yes.  It sounded great to me on this digital darling, and thus my
decision was made.  The next day, I bought 90210, and listened to the two
CDs non-stop for weeks.  
   A while later, the great god of progressive music smiled favorably upon
me, and I found a twenty-dollar bill in the parking lot of a movie theatre.
 I took this as a sign to buy more CDs, and immediately went to Turtle's
music and bought Fragile.  Wow!  I fell in love.  Next I bought the Yes
Album, and Close to the Edge.  I experimented in listening to these two
extremes of Yes for some time, buying many older bootlegs as well as some
new ones.  It was quite a while before I purchased the mid-era stuff: Going
For the One, Drama, and Tormato (on vinyl, of course), then the first two
albums (Yes, and Time and a Word).  I had prolonged love affairs with each
of these albums.  
   After this, I started becoming an obscure fan, buying many solo albums
etc. (some of my personal recomendations are: Fish Out of Water (Squire),
Song of Seven (Anderson), the Steve Howe Album, and Jon & Vangelis stuff). 

   This, of course, is only one method of becoming a Yes nut, and anyone
who wants to should feel free to play around with this schedule.
   I hope you will enjoy Yes as much as I do! 

  /--------------------------------------\
  /********  ^\**************************\   Jason Finestone    |Earl's
  /*******/<o>\\********fnord************\   Yale University    |  COMFORT 
  /******/     \\************************\                      \  STATION
  /*****/       \\***********************\                       --------->
  /**ALL HAIL DISCORDIA******************\                           |
   ---------------------------------------
From: metzler@pablo.physics.lsa.umich.edu (Chris Metzler)
Newsgroups: alt.rock-n-roll.symphonic
Subject: Return of the Son of "What about . . ."
Date: 18 Nov 1992 02:55:14 GMT
Organization: University of Michigan Department of Physics
Distribution: world
NNTP-Posting-Host: pablo.physics.lsa.umich.edu


Not that I'm a big fan or anything, but songs like Conquistador
or A Salty Dog make me think that Procol Harum (sp?) ought to
be considered in the same vein . . .

Newsgroups: alt.rock-n-roll.symphonic
From: pieper@ucsu.Colorado.EDU (John Pieper)
Subject: Moody Blues/Colorado Symphony
Organization: University of Colorado, Boulder
Distribution: na
Date: Sat, 21 Nov 1992 08:42:46 GMT

Speaking of symphonic rock...

The Moody Blues played two dates recently (Sept 9-10) at Red Rocks Ampitheatre
near Denver, with the Colorado Symphony Orchestra.  This was billed as their
first performance with an orchestra outside London, and so far as I know this
sort of event was not repeated on the remainder of their tour.  I was
fortunate enough to catch the first performance.

The concert began with the CSO performing a sort of overture, which included
some of the Redwave/Knight music from _Days of Future Passed_, and finished
with Graeme Edge's recitation of "Late Lament".  Then the Moodies joined in
with "Tuesday Afternoon", and the show was off.

The first part featured songs not often heard in concert, such as "Voices in
the Sky", "New Horizons", "For My Lady", and "Emily's Song", for which the
CSO provided the main accompaniment; the Moodies themselves were very subdued
instumentally throughout the first set.  After the intermission, the Moody
Blues came on alone and went into a set of rockers starting with "Lovely to
See You", "Gemini Dream", "The Story in Your Eyes", and continuing with
several more from their more recent albums.  Finally they were rejoined by
the CSO, and here is where the show seemed to go a bit wrong, IMO.  The
problem was that the Moodies continued to play at high volume and intensity,
and the sound mix was such that at least from my seat in the 14th row, the
CSO were all but inaudible much of the time.  Some songs, like "Isn't Life
Strange", were effective, but on the whole I began to feel rather sorry for
the members of the CSO, who had obviously worked hard on the music for these
dates, only to be drowned out.

All in all, a gratifying show, but still something left to be desired.

Is there anyone reading who saw either date?  Did they get the mix better on
the second night?  Your comments are invited.
-- 
John Pieper                         pieper@ucsu.colorado.edu
Dept. of Physics                   "Any deviation will result
University of Colorado at Boulder   in termination" -- the Mgt.
From: dic5340@hertz.njit.edu (David Charlap)
Newsgroups: alt.rock-n-roll.symphonic
Subject: Peart vs. Bruford
Date: 20 Nov 92 19:54:25 GMT
Organization: New Jersey Institute of Technology, Newark, N.J.

In article <BxzILH.J1z@mentor.cc.purdue.edu> analog@mentor.cc.purdue.edu (Mike Monahan) writes:
>In article <l8y1dyb@rpi.edu> battlec@cs.rpi.edu (Clark Battle) writes:
>>In article <BxxszJ.CAy@mentor.cc.purdue.edu>, memmer@sage.cc.purdue.edu (John Memmer) writes:
>>|> the most symphonic:
>>|> 
>>|>                    Neil Peart. Hands down.
>>
>>Neil is an excellent drummer BUT...
>>
>>	I have been to 3 rush concerts and heard several bootleg tapes
>>	and it apperars to me that he plays the same solo every concert.
>
>	Bruford is an excellent drummer BUT...
>
>	I love Bruford's work (especially those first few minutes of 
>"Heart of the Sunrise"), but I wasn't impressed with his live performance.

He is quite stifled with the Yes group.  I've heard from others that
he is much more impressive with his "Earthworks" band.  They recently
finished a tour of sorts.  Unfortunately, I missed it.
-- 
  |)  David Charlap          | .signature confiscated by FBI due to
 /|_  dic5340@hertz.njit.edu | an ongoing investigation into the
((|,)                        | source of these .signature virusses
 ~|~
Newsgroups: alt.rock-n-roll.classic
From: darryl@sciborg.uwaterloo.ca (Darryl Chartrand)
Subject: Re: best guitar solos
Organization: University of Waterloo
Date: Tue, 24 Nov 1992 05:26:07 GMT

>Takin' Care of Business (guitarist??) of B.T.O.  
> 
Good God, the guitarist of BTO
is of course that very stout Winnipeger (or former Winnipeger) Randy Bachman.  The
first minute of "Guns, Guns, Guns" is quite a treat to listen to.  Actually the
whole song is good but I especially like the first part. I think he is a very
underrated guitarist. 

darryl

Newsgroups: alt.rock-n-roll.symphonic
From: srscnslt@telesciences.com (SRS Consultant)
Subject: Re: Yes/Tales
Organization: TeleSciences CO Systems, Inc.
Date: Tue, 17 Nov 1992 18:00:59 GMT

In article <BxtMHD.J3u@mentor.cc.purdue.edu> formula4@sage.cc.purdue.edu (Formula 409) writes:
>
>Being a keyboard player myself, I think I am required to be a Yes fan, since


	Yes, actually, this is true.  Failure to comply can, and likely will,
	result in the loss of at least three fingers.  And maybe a toe or two
	(just in case).


[Yes, that really _is_ my .sig - I didn't make it up special! =]

Mitch Gorman		srscnslt@telesciences.com		slave@work
			emrys@cellar.org			god@home

"Stand, on hills of long forgotten yesterdays..."
From: sweet@skat.usc.edu (Rob Sweet)
Newsgroups: alt.rock-n-roll.symphonic
Subject: Re: Yes/Tales
Date: 16 Nov 1992 09:24:28 -0800
Organization: University of Southern California, Los Angeles, CA
NNTP-Posting-Host: skat.usc.edu

dji@atson.asahi-np.co.jp (David J. Iannucci) writes:

>I put it to you all that Yes' TALES FROM TOPOGRAPHIC OCEANS is nothing
>short of the greatest "piece" of music composed in this century.
>
>This is not meant to start a flame war, just to see if there are others
>out there who share my somewhat unconventional tastes :^)  Why is this
>album so thoroughly overlooked?  Is it that your average jerk doesn't
>have the attention span to handle it?

	There really is something magical about this album.  It is a very
different album, even for Yes.  I have talked to more than one Yes fan who
have said that the "Tales" shows were the best of any of them.  I have
seen Yes four times (three Yes, one ABWH), but never saw the "Tales" tour.
Wasn't "Tales" the first Yes album with Allen White?  In the Roger Dean 
"coffee table" book (I forget the name), there is a pretty lengthy section 
detailing the construction of the set.  It had all those bizarre pods, 
lighting, and mural backdrops.  I wonder if they caught any of it on film.

	This album is probably overlooked because it does not have any "hits",
and (IMHO) IS beyond the attention span of most listeners.  I think Zappa's
music has the same dilemma.  If something doesn't immediately fit into the 
listener's scope of what is music, then it is passed off, and never given 
another chance.  What a shame.

Rob Sweet				sweet@skat.usc.edu



Newsgroups: alt.rock-n-roll.symphonic
From: srscnslt@telesciences.com (SRS Consultant)
Subject: Re: And the third (and maybe fourth) Yes keyboardists:
Organization: TeleSciences CO Systems, Inc.
Date: Mon, 23 Nov 1992 15:34:22 GMT

In article <1992Nov20.164444.28098@nsisrv.gsfc.nasa.gov> andy@ian.stx.com writes:
>
>No way!  Oh, the humanity of it all!  The new Yes could've had Jobson,
>but they settled for Kaye???!!  Whatever were they thinking?!?!  Anybody
>heard or seen anything from Eddie Jobson since "Theme of Secrets" (solo
>project on Private Music, very highly recommended if you like "new age"
>or electronic music!!)?


	Unless I'm much mistaken (entirely likely ;), Eddie did the score for
	the movie 'White Sands' with Willem Dafoe.

Mitch Gorman		srscnslt@telesciences.com		slave@work
			emrys@cellar.org			god@home

"Stand, on hills of long forgotten yesterdays..."
Newsgroups: alt.rock-n-roll.symphonic
From: ukrainec@nimios.eng.mcmaster.ca (Andrew Ukrainec)
Subject: Re: Peart vs. Bruford
Organization: Communications Research Laboratory, McMaster University
Date: Mon, 23 Nov 1992 05:12:18 GMT

In article <1992Nov20.195425.20006@njitgw.njit.edu> dic5340@hertz.njit.edu 
(David Charlap) writes:

>He is quite stifled with the Yes group.  I've heard from others that
>he is much more impressive with his "Earthworks" band.  They recently
>finished a tour of sorts.  Unfortunately, I missed it.

Earthworks is great, but will appeal more to progressive jazz fans.
I saw him live with Patrick Moraz in the mid-80's, and it was great!
I would strongly recommend the two albums they did together, "Music
for Piano and Drums" and "Flags".  Sure, Niel Peart knows how to drum.
But its simplistic.  Check out the rendition of Max Roaches'
"The Drum Also Waltzes" on "Flags".  It takes soul to play that.
The original "Earthworks" record is great, and I just picked up 
"all heaven broke loose", but I haven't listened to it much.
And I agree, his work with Yes was not the best.  But the work
with King Crimson was great.  That alone should put convince anyone.
Check out the work done by his group "Bruford" too.

For Genesis fans, he's on the live "Seconds Out" with "Cinema Show".
Its brilliant.

B. B. must be doing something right, because he's been working with
some of the top people for a long time.
-- 
         Andrew Ukrainec                 ukrainec@nimios.eng.mcmaster.ca 
          <    (*) >               /  \             < (*)    >           
Communications Research Laboratory      McMaster Univ, Hamilton, Ontario
From: dic5340@hertz.njit.edu (David Charlap)
Newsgroups: alt.rock-n-roll.symphonic
Subject: Re: First posting?
Date: 17 Nov 92 16:33:16 GMT
Organization: New Jersey Institute of Technology, Newark, N.J.

In article <1992Nov16.141353.8270@dg-rtp.dg.com> cochran@spam.rtp.dg.com (A. Jing Hippy) writes:
>On this thread, what about Rick Wakeman's stuff?  "Journey to the Centre of
>the Earth" is what really turned me on to rock music with symphonic
>backgrounds.

Quite incredible.  Although I wouldn't classify much of Rick's stuff
as "rock"!  Mostly fits into "classical" or "new age", although he's
done some incredible rock stuff as well (like "Time Machine" and
"Phantom Power")

-- 
  |)  David Charlap          | .signature confiscated by FBI due to
 /|_  dic5340@hertz.njit.edu | an ongoing investigation into the
((|,)                        | source of these .signature virusses
 ~|~
Organization: Penn State University
Date: Sat, 21 Nov 1992 15:09:29 EST
From: <LPR100@psuvm.psu.edu>
Newsgroups: alt.rock-n-roll.symphonic
Subject: Re: turbulence

>How does turbulence compare to steve's other albums? Is it popy or arty
>or what?  reccommendations...

The major difference is the lack of acoustic pieces and the fact that
ALL the tracks are complete songs with standard rock band instruments...
no unaccompanied solos, and no 59 piece orchestras. There are no vocals
as well. The album is definately worth getting, however! The songs are
solid, melody driven, and have a more mellow, new-ageish feel. I would
recommend this to any Yes fan, or anyone who simply enjoys quality
instrumentals.

 ___                 ___                  Larry Rossi -- LPR100@psuvm.psu.edu
/   \   _ _   _  _  /   \  _     ___
| O  | || || | \/ | | O  || |   | __|     And for a moment when our
|  -<  || || |    | | --< | |   ||=         world had filled the skies,
| O  | ||_|| ||\/|| | O  || |_  ||__        Magic turned our eyes...
\___/  \___/ ||  || \___/ |___| |___|                       Jon Anderson
Newsgroups: alt.rock-n-roll.symphonic
From: tiverson@lynx.dac.northeastern.edu (Thor Iverson)
Subject: Re: Wakeman v. Emerson
Organization: Northeastern University, Boston, MA. 02115, USA
Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1992 20:26:20 GMT

In article <92322.042124MWEINTR@auvm.american.edu> <MWEINTR@auvm.american.edu> writes:
>Who do you think is better? Wakeman or Emerson (is there someone else out there
>that compares to either of these virtuosi that should be here also

In rock?  Probably not, though there's plenty of great keyboardists who
aren't rock players who end up playing rock at least once in their career.
Kenny Kirkland comes to mind...

Classical pianists not even considered here, of course...

>your favourite player

Hmmmm...I would have to say Wakeman, because I think I could listen to
him longer.  I'm not sure Emerson could have written "The Meeting," one
of the simplest keyboard-based songs ever, yet brilliant in it's own way.

>who you think is technically better

Emerson.  Neither of them are exactly flawless live (again, especially
in comparison to classical pianists), but much of Emerson's virtuosity
seems to go beyond simple arpeggiation, which Wakeman seems to rely on
more and more.  It's a tough call, though.

>I will first off vote for Wakeman, he is flawless in so many styles (rock, new
>age, classical, jazz) and is not as flashy/cocky as Emerson (IMO)...

He also has a much better sense of time.  It's ironic that Emerson, who
has little ability to "slow down," was in a band with Carl Palmer, who
was probably the worst great drummer ever when it came to keeping a beat.
The net result of this was, of course, that they made Greg Lake look
bad, when he was in fact the only one trying to hold the rhythm.

>My evidence is, of course, _Six Wives of Henry VIII_, which is flawless (well,
>not exactly, the other dudes in Yes don't play on the other 5 tracks  :P )

Well, my counter-example would be _Journey To The Centre Of The Earth_, an
album I listen to about as often as _Love Beach_...

Overall, I'd have to say I prefer Emerson, though if I was putting together
a band, I think I would choose Wakeman (for many of the same reasons that,
even though I think Neil Peart is the best rock drummer ever, I would put
John Bonham in any band of mine).

>Mike

Thor Iverson
Newsgroups: alt.rock-n-roll.symphonic
From: tiverson@lynx.dac.northeastern.edu (Thor Iverson)
Subject: Re: turbulence
Organization: Northeastern University, Boston, MA. 02115, USA
Date: Sat, 21 Nov 1992 23:22:04 GMT

In article <92326.124327IO21145@MAINE.MAINE.EDU> <IO21145@MAINE.MAINE.EDU> writes:

>Turbulence is very solid.....  It doesn't find any new ground
>for Steve, but it does reinforce his status as Rock Guitarist
>extrodinare! - Quite a few of the themes (or "licks" if you like)
> can be found on the Union ABWH tracks, so one might wonder of
>the true identity, or where the material rightfully belongs.

I found this interesting, too.  But not nearly as interesting as
when I ran across an import of the Steve Howe/Bodast album, and
listened to "Nether Street."  Seems like Howe does this kind of thing
a lot, huh?

Thor Iverson

P.S. In case I lost anyone, "Nether Street" by Bodast is identical
to "Wurm" from "Starship Trooper."  Not similar, identical.
Newsgroups: alt.rock-n-roll.symphonic
From: formula4@sage.cc.purdue.edu (Formula 409)
Subject: Re: Yes/Tales
Organization: Purdue University
Date: Mon, 16 Nov 1992 18:10:19 GMT

In <2937@anprda.atson.asahi-np.co.jp> dji@atson.asahi-np.co.jp (David J. Iannucci) writes:

>I put it to you all that Yes' TALES FROM TOPOGRAPHIC OCEANS is nothing
>short of the greatest "piece" of music composed in this century.

_Tales From Topographical Oceans_ is a TRULY remarkable piece.  To say that it
is nothing short of the greatest piece of music this century may be pushing it
a little, but I will agree that it is perhaps the greatest progressive rock
"piece" in the genre.

Being a keyboard player myself, I think I am required to be a Yes fan, since
Rick Wakeman is the single greatest keyboard player in the whole of creation
(with POSSIBLE exception to Keith Emerson).  I have tried to play some of my
friends the song/album, but I don't think they would want to sit down and just
listen to a song for 90 or so minutes!  I am a D.J. at a closed-circuit college
radio station, and have freedom to play or say whatever I want, since the
station doesn't broadcast outside the doem hall.  I think for my next show,
I'll play the entire album, just because I feel like it, and other people
should at least try to listen to the piece.

Yes, _Tales From Topographical Oceans_ is truly a remarkable piece, a landmark
effort from one of the greatest musical incarnations of today!

-- 
********************************************************************************
*         Formula 409           *  |/   * |\ |\ |\ |\/ |   |  |\ | |\/| Bacon  *
* ============================= *  |/   * |< |\ |  |\/ \ o |> |\ \ |  |  Thane *
*  formula4@sage.cc.purdue.edu  *  |    * |/ |  |  |   |   |  |  | |  | ====== *
Newsgroups: alt.rock-n-roll.symphonic
From: srscnslt@telesciences.com (SRS Consultant)
Subject: Re: First posting?
Organization: TeleSciences CO Systems, Inc.
Date: Wed, 18 Nov 1992 16:13:12 GMT

In article <15529@auspex-gw.auspex.com> johnf@Auspex.COM (John Fereira) writes:
>
>"FM" was from Canada and the album with Phasers on Stun was called "Black
>Noise".  Great progressive rock album.  They have at least two others that
>I know of.  The third album is called Surveillance.  I don't recall the name
>of their first album.  Many a discussion has taken place on rec.music.misc
>as to whether Ben Mink and Nash the Slash (another violin player for FM)
>are the same person. Consensus is they are not.  I have a rather extensive
>list of the use of violin in rock and jazz.  By far my largest collection of
>albums but a single artist is Jean luc Ponty.  23 albums.


	Oh, right, Surveillance.  That was the one I couldn't remember.

	Anyway, pardon this digression into fusion-jazz, but if you like Ponty
	(which you obviously do), then I recommend Jerry Goodman's work (on
	Private Music label).  Speaking as a one-time guitarist (since
	graduated to keyboards ;), it seems to me that Goodman is both more
	melodic and technically proficient than Ponty.  MHO, of course.


Mitch Gorman		srscnslt@telesciences.com		slave@work
			emrys@cellar.org			god@home

"Stand, on hills of long forgotten yesterdays..."
From: jchokey@leland.Stanford.EDU (James Alexander Chokey)
Newsgroups: alt.rock-n-roll.symphonic
Subject: Difference between this and alt.music.progressive?
Date: 17 Nov 92 17:56:15 GMT
Organization: DSG, Stanford University, CA 94305, USA


	OK, my site just started getting this group quite recently, but
there's already a bunch of posts here, most of which are about art-rock/
symphonic rock/70's style progressive rock--  call it what you will. How
is this group supposed to be different from alt.music.progressive which
is devoted to that very topic?

	--  Jim C. <jchokey@leland.stanford.edu>
Newsgroups: alt.rock-n-roll.symphonic
From: memmer@sage.cc.purdue.edu (John Memmer)
Subject: Re: Wakeman v. Emerson
Organization: Purdue University Computing Center
Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1992 00:21:18 GMT

In article <1992Nov17.211001.7715@mcshub.dcss.mcmaster.ca> ukrainec@nimios.eng.mcmaster.ca (Andrew Ukrainec) writes:
>In article <92322.042124MWEINTR@auvm.american.edu> <MWEINTR@auvm.american.edu> writes:
>>Okay,
>>
>>Cool group, first off!
>>
>
>How about drummers?
>favourite and technically the best: Bill Bruford

Favorite and technically the best and (going with the spirit of this group)
the most symphonic:

                   Neil Peart. Hands down.

And don't get me wrong; I really enjoy Yes, but Neil just has that "edge" that
I, as a percussionist, can appreciate. 

Bill is a great drummer, though!

How about a list of top percussionists for this topic? I would also include
John "Bonzo" Bonham and Dave Weckl...

-- 
************************************
* John B. Memmer - Let me out!!!   *
* memmer@sage.cc.purdue.edu        *
************************************