HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: feld@ccu.umanitoba.ca (Michael Feld)
Subject: Re: Riverworld (Farmer)
Organization: University of Manitoba, Winnipeg, Manitoba, Canada
Date: Sun, 24 Jan 1993 17:59:30 GMT

In article <1jq9ftINN2i4@usenet.INS.CWRU.Edu> as232@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Michael Lerner) writes:
>
>I recently completed the first Riverworld novel, _To their Scattered Bodies
>Go_.  The whole concept is intriguing, but unfortunately, my local bookstores
>tell me the rest of the series (Starting with _The Fabulous Riverboat_) are
>out of print!  How can this be?  Anyway, I've heard rumors the story goes
>downhill from book 1: is it worth tracking it down?  Does he ever reveal the
>secrets of the Riverworld, and does the main character from book 1 ever
>triumph? (Are any of the later books even centered around him?)
>
>Mike
>-- 


Don't do it; don't read any more of 'em.  The series never gets any
better, and it never ends.  The promised conclusion (was it the third?
fourth?) came, but on went the series, riverrun pointlessly to no
see, at all.

I went from being a Farmer fan, to president of the "never buy another
of that guy's works again!" fan club.

Waves of loathing.

Best,
	Mikey
-- 
Michael Feld                  | E-mail: <feld@ccu.umanitoba.ca>
Dept. of Philosophy           | FAX: (204) 261-0021
University of Manitoba        | Voice: (204) 474-9136
Winnipeg, MB, R3T 2M8, Canada
From: IRXT400@INDYCMS.IUPUI.EDU (b thacker)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
Subject: Re: SF-LOVERS Digest   V18 #54
Date: 21 Jan 93 19:27:22 GMT

It's really getting annoying to plow through endless messages from
the boys who disagree with Sarah Beck.  We get the point, guys, you
don't agree with her.  Quite possibly in your eyes nobody is antisemitic
or mysogynistic.  What has this to do with science fiction,
which (I was given to understand) is the topic of the listserv?
What does anyone think about Ray Bradbury or someone? Anyone?
-bt-
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
Subject: Re: Aes Sedai (VERY LONG!)
From: <CSD108@psuvm.psu.edu>
Date: Thu, 28 Jan 1993 11:01:48 EST
 <darknite.727908939@camelot><1993Jan25.183058.21079@cc.gatech.edu> <1993Jan27.012413.18616@cc.gatech.edu>
Organization: Penn State University


In article <1993Jan27.012413.18616@cc.gatech.edu>, erica@cc.gatech.edu (Erica
Liebman Sadun) says:
>Ishamael  - Presumed dead (Highly unlikely).
>            Supposedly killed by Rand in the Stone of Tear
>            Real name: Beidomon
>            AKA: Ba'alzamon?

Are you sure about his real name? In the prologue to EotW, when Ishamael is
talking to Lews Therin, he (Ish.) says "Once I was called Elan Morin Tedronai"
What do you think?

--Craig D.

_______________________________________________________________________
|  Trouble with Tribbles? Try  |  Internet: CSD108@psuvm.psu.edu      |
|       - N E R P S ! -        |  Bitnet  : CSD108@psuvm              |
|        For Tribbles          |  "668: Neighbor of the Beast"        |
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
From: looi@qut.edu.au (Mark Looi)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
Subject: Melanie Rawn's Skybowl - ISBN?
Date: 27 Jan 93 16:57:39 EST
Organization: Queensland University of Technology

In an earlier news article (that has vanished from this site due to a
system problem), someone mentioned that Skybowl (Bk. 3 of the Dragon
Star series by Melanie Rawn) had been released.

Now, since this is my all-time favourite series, I can't wait for the
book to be released through normal channels in Australia (Book 2 - Dragon
Token hasn't even been released in hardcover yet).

So, I'll have to get a bookstore to place a special order import for me
(as I did with the earlier books).

Question is: can anyone out there who has the book or has access to the book
give me the ISBN number?  I don't have that much faith in the local book
stores to get it right without all the relevant information.  Also, is
Skybowl still published by Daw Books ?

Thanks,
Mark
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Mark Looi                                      mlooi@fitmail.fit.qut.edu.au
				 			  m.looi@qut.edu.au
Information Security Research Centre
Queensland University of Technology
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
From: julie@eddie.jpl.nasa.gov (Julie Kangas)
Subject: Re: Aes Sedai
Organization: Jet Propulsion Laboratory, Pasadena, CA
Date: Wed, 27 Jan 1993 16:54:54 GMT


Ok, I have to ask so please forgive me :)

When will the next book be out?  It seems like TSR
was *soooo* *loooong* ago.

Sigh, just another person unable to get her
Robert Jordan/Julian May/Tad Williams fix on time.....

I CAN'T WAIT ANY LONGER.  CHAIN THEM TO DESKS AND
FORCE THEM TO WRITE!!!  INTO THE DUNGEONS UNTIL THEY
FINISH THE SERIES!!!!



:-):-):-):-):-):-):-):-):-):-):-):-):-):-):-):-)
:-)    This post has been smiley-captioned   :-)
:-)          for the humor-impaired          :-)
:-):-):-):-):-):-):-):-):-):-):-):-):-):-):-):-)




Julie
DISCLAIMER:  All opinions here belong to my cat and no one else
From: steinly@topaz.ucsc.edu (Steinn Sigurdsson)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
Subject: Re: Is SF imaginative?
Date: 26 Jan 93 15:44:23
Organization: Lick Observatory/UCO
Distribution: world
	<1kFygd#8Tjq4K3f3MCk29YL9j5xgpTb=esr@snark.thyrsus.com>
NNTP-Posting-Host: topaz.ucsc.edu
In-reply-to: esr@snark.thyrsus.com's message of 25 Jan 93 23:32:58 GMT


In the context of this thread I was amused to
come upon a 32 year old Alternative View column
in Analog by GH Stine about "Is SF imaginative enough"!

The more things change the more they stay the same.

*  Steinn Sigurdsson   			 Lick Observatory     	  *
* steinly@lick.ucsc.edu		       "standard disclaimer"  	  *
* But, oh, love is strange 					  *
* and you have to learn to take the crunchy with the smooth,      *
* I suppose 				              - B.B. 1983 *
From: mike@maths.tcd.ie (Mike Rogers)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
Subject: Re: Chung Kuo
Date: 27 Jan 93 17:39:46 GMT
Organization: none

In article <william.johnson-250193162605@tibia.engin.umich.edu>, william.johnson@um.cc.umich.edu (William Johnson) wrote:
>Does anyone out there know when the fourth "Chung Kuo" novel is goin
>to be released.  (I'm new to this group, so if this question has

It's out in Ireland (and UK, I guess :-) )
-- 
Mike Rogers,Box 6,Regent Hse,##EveryoneHasTheRightToFreedomOfOpinionAndExpressio
TCD,EIRE. <mike@maths.tcd.ie>##nThisRightIncludesFreedomToHoldOpinionsWithoutInt
###############################erferenceAndToSeekReceiveAndImpartInformationAndI
deasThroughAnyMediaAndRegardlessOfFrontiers...#10 UN Declaration of Human Rights
From: weemba@sagi.wistar.upenn.edu (Matthew P Wiener)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
Subject: Re: Vernor Vinge's new book...
Date: 22 Jan 93 15:12:18 GMT
Reply-To: weemba@sagi.wistar.upenn.edu (Matthew P Wiener)
Organization: The Wistar Institute of Anatomy and Biology
In-reply-to: dcs@neutron.chem.yale.edu (Dave Schweisguth)

In article <1993Jan21.174718.11623@news.yale.edu>, dcs@neutron (Dave Schweisguth) writes:
>: P.S. Notice how well he's captured the flavor of the Net? I'm sure
>: that "Death to Vermin" guy's posted here before :-) . 

>If 50,000 years and the computational advantages of the Beyond don't
>improve network communications, I'll stick with the Slow Zone.

I have to agree.  Reading fake USENET seems pretty stupid, and does
not feel futuristic in the least.
-- 
-Matthew P Wiener (weemba@sagi.wistar.upenn.edu)
From: cozzlab@garnet.berkeley.edu ()
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
Subject: Re: The the great ongoing misogyny/misandry discussion
Date: 22 Jan 1993 20:00:13 GMT
Organization: University of California, Berkeley
Distribution: world
NNTP-Posting-Host: garnet.berkeley.edu

In article <1jp3rqINNkk5@newsstand.cit.cornell.edu> phydeaux@guru.med.cornell.edu (Dave Weingart) writes:
>
>
>Worst example of a War-Between-the-Sexes I can recall was a book (by an
>author mercifully forgotten) called "Native Tongue," ...

>I specifically recall that the women have some secret language called
>"Laadan" (which is apparantly "real," on the order of Esparanto), 

yeah, well, it's because the author invented the language herself.  And
published another book about it.

I glanced at the dictionary once and noted one entry which was funny--though
I bet she didn't think it was funny.  The word meant "holiday," but had the
connotations of "an occasion when everybody gets together and the men all
goof off and the women have to work their tails off cooking and cleaning
up."

To each her own, I guess.

Dorothy J. Heydt
UC Berkeley
cozzlab@garnet.berkeley.edu

Disclaimer:  UCB and the Cozzarelli lab are not responsible for my
opinions, and in fact I don't think they know I have any.
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
From: darknite@camelot.bradley.edu (John S. Novak III)
Subject: Re: Aes Sedai
Keywords: Sedai
Organization: Bradley University
Date: 26 Jan 93 07:48:10 GMT

In <1jur6iINN2h8@mozz.unh.edu> pss1@kepler.unh.edu (Paul S Secinaro) writes:
>Spoilers ahead...


>It seems to me he [Mat] must be Aemon, or some other hero of Manetheren.
>Remember, Artur Hawkwing showed up when Mat sounded the horn the first
>time, yet Aemon was nowhere to be seen (because Mat is Aemon).

Good point, if we assume that there's a kind of conservation of
soul/personality in operation.  

>>4. The name al'Thor probably means that Tam is descended from the old king
>>Thorin mentioned in the books (ANOTHER REFERENCE TO LOTR!)

>I got the distinct impression that Tam is the fabled Jain Farstrider.
>I don't remember all the clues that brought me to that conclusion, but
>he *does* have that fancy sword, which isn't just your average
>heron-mark blade.  At one point someone mentions that Tam's blade
>dates back to the Age of Legends.  Now how would a common footsoldier
>get a sword like that?


The person in question was Lan, telling Rand about the sword.
One possible way for this sheepherder to come into possession of
a very old Heron-marked blade is simple-- kill the old owner.

I know that Tam's history has been sketched out somehwere in the
series, and mentioned what wars he fought in.  However, in TSR,
it is noted that Tam had the same grace of mobility as the
Warders did.  I hypothesize that Tam may have, at one time,
trained to be a warder.  He did, after all, have enough pull to
see people in the White Tower.  This may have been the result of
an Old Boys' Network favor being called in.  For that matter, Lan
might have known so much about that blade because he may have
_known_ Tam, way back when.  Or not.

I've currently begun rereading the series with meticulous care.
I'm even possessed enough by the books to have bought a notebook
to jot down interesting or important details as I see them, to
correlate them later.  If I find evidence for any crazy theory
(my own, or anyone else's) I'll be sure to post it... :-)

--
"So this is the Sword of Immortality, huh?  What's it doing in a
crypt?"		-- Aratham De Cernilas
John S. Novak, III		darknite@camelot.bradley.edu
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
From: jthorpe1@cc.swarthmore.edu (jere7my tho?rpe)
Subject: WANTED: list of post-1981 hard SF
Followup-To: rec.arts.sf.written
Organization: S.W.I.L.
Date: Sat, 23 Jan 1993 18:43:29 GMT


A physics professor acquaintance of mine wants to run an SF course here,
with an emphasis on the "science" in "science fiction."  (I.e. she wants a
physics/SF course instead of a literature/SF course.)  She's up to date on
most of the stuff before 1980, but lost track after that.  SO...if any of
you have thoughts about what hard SF might be good (novels AND short
stories, the latter preferably being from one or two easy-to-find
anthologies), either email me at

jthorpe1@cc.swarthmore.edu

or post here with your ideas.  (Example: _Earth_ by David Brin talks about
singularities and gravity lasers and interesting things like that, and even
though he may be way off base, it could still be interesting to discuss...)
 Thanks in advance....

                                                     ----jere7my
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
Subject: Re:  Enormous Big Things
From: alien@acheron.amigans.gen.nz (Ross Smith)
Date: 24 Jan 93 17:49:33 GMT+12
Distribution: world
Organization: Muppet Labs

In article <1jf5rr$i28@agate.berkeley.edu> cozzlab@garnet.berkeley.edu () writes:
>Have the huge collection of huge unexplained things in Charles Sheffield's
>Summertide/Divergence/whatever-the-third-one-is been mentioned on this
>thread yet?

A couple of people have; I didn't put them on my list because I haven't
read them myself (I would if I'd ever seen them, but US books reach us here
very slowly if at all).

--
...... Ross Smith (Wanganui, NZ) ...... alien@acheron.amigans.gen.nz ......
"I blame you for the moonlit sky and the dream that died with the Eagle's flight
I blame you for the moonlit nights when I wonder why are the seas still dry
Don't blame me, sleeping satellite"                              (Tasmin Archer)
--
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
From: knott@sfu.ca (Dave Knott)
Subject: Re: Aes Sedai
Organization: Simon Fraser University, Burnaby, B.C., Canada
Date: Sat, 23 Jan 1993 21:19:27 GMT

In article <C19zxC.JAy@news.cso.uiuc.edu> tara@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (Lady  
Johanna Constantine) writes:
> >> 
> >> Aes Sedai:
> 
> I haven't the foggiest what this thread is about,

	It's about a series of fantasy novels by Robert Jordan called _The  
Wheel Of Time_. We were discussing links between human mythology and  
legend and the history put forth in Jordan's work.

> but could the Aes Sedai have anythggn to do with
> the Aes Sidhe, the People of the Sidh ie: The Tuatha De
> Danaans (the fay, the Sidhe, etc.)?
> 
> I noticed the grail and Arthur in this post, so I thought
> since those celtic things were mentioned, I might
> as well give it a shot.

	Eh? What? Who? Please define: Who or what are Aes Sidhe and Tuatha  
De Danaans? You seem to imply that they have something to do with  
Arthurian or celtic legends. My Lady Johanna, I am sure that any _Wheel of  
Time_ fan would be most fascinated by any information about them.

> 
> 
> a very confused LJC
> -- 
> Lady Johanna Constantine* Tales and dreams are the shadow-truths that  
will
> tara@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu   * endure when mere facts are dust, and ashes,  
and
> Disclaimer - huh?       * forgot.      -Dream of the Endless (and Neil  
G.)
> Church of Our Lady of the Perpetually Clueless, donations accepted......


Dave Knott (not Not nor Knot)
knott@sfu.ca
From: michaelb@cse.fau.edu (Michael Rogero Brown)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
Subject: Re: REQUEST: Hannibal Fortune, Larry Maddock books/info
Date: 25 Jan 93 18:23:25 GMT
Organization: Florida Atlantic University, Boca Raton, FL, USA

In article <21JAN199313203947@lheavx.gsfc.nasa.gov> smale@lheavx.gsfc.nasa.gov (Alan P. Smale) writes:
>One of the first SF books I ever read was "The Emerald Elephant Gambit",
>number #3 in the series "Agent of T.E.R.R.A." by Larry Maddock, where
>our intrepid hero Hannibal Fortune goes back to the 15th century BC
>to stop a bunch of bad guys from looting Mohenjo-Daro and changing 
>Earth's timeline. Now, this book is not a classic by any means; although
>it fired up my imagination big-time when I first read it I can now see
>what a piece of hack-work it really is ... but ...
>
>Recently in a second-hand store in Tucson I discovered #1 in the series,
>"The Flying Saucer Gambit", where our intrepid hero HF goes all the
>way back in time to 1966 to thwart another dastardly plot. I bought it
>for nostalgia's sake. Now I would like to get hold of the second one,
>
>   "Agent of T.E.R.R.A. #2: The Golden Goddess Gambit" by Larry Maddock,
>published in paperback by Ace Books in 1966 or 1967, G-620 in their list.
>
>Also, if the series goes beyond 3 I'd be interested in the later books.
>Willing to pay cash plus shipping, etc. 
>
>Finally, who is this Larry Maddock person anyway? Is he real or is he
>a pen-name ... I ask, because his writing reminds me very strongly of
>another more famous 1960s writer. Anybody know whether Larry Maddock
>wrote anything else?
>
There were a total of 4 Agent of TERRA Books.  Don't recall the titles 
right now.  Also I believe Larry Maddock is a pseudonym.

-- 
<< Michael Rogero Brown                      | Disclaimer: I speak         >>
<< CS Graduate Student-Florida Atlantic Univ |  only for myself.           >>
<< Internet: michaelb@sunrise.cse.fau.edu    | All my opinions are         >>
<< BitNet: m_brown@fauvax                    |  that: mine & opinions.     >>
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
From: tmohler+@cs.cmu.edu (Tim Mohler)
Subject: Re: The the great ongoing misogyny/misandry discussion
Organization: School of Computer Science, Carnegie Mellon
Date: Wed, 27 Jan 1993 21:47:53 GMT

In article <Jan24.230109.71215@yuma.ACNS.ColoState.EDU> write@lamar.ColoState.EDU (Glen Cox) writes:
>In article <JET.93Jan22173945@boxer.nas.nasa.gov> jet@boxer.nas.nasa.gov (J. Eric Townsend) writes:

>Mile, check out Zimmer Bradley's THENDARA HOUSE, and after you've recovered
>from the bludgeoning might of her feminist sledgehammer, check back with
>this conversation.

Ok, what bothered you about Thendara House?

Some women had suffered abuse at the hands of men all of their
lives. They were not exactly pro-male.

So what's wrong with this?

Tim
From: sl7sg@cc.usu.edu
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
Subject: Pern/Computers, and DOS
Date: 22 Jan 93 01:20:23 MDT
Organization: Utah State University


	Sorry, if this has been discussed already, and all the other
disclaimers...(for some odd reason, my site did not have this higharchy of
groups...)

	Anyhow, I just finished reading the last pern book, and I was hit with
something odd.  Did you notice that when the AI told Jarom (sp?) to run a
program onboard the ship, to turn the shields on (during a swarm of thread,
still in space) it said run DESTROY.EXE
	Don't you think that is odd, you would have thought they would have
gotten away from dos, by that timeperiod...(at least the .exe extension).
	also, I wonder what type of computer Anne Mccaffery uses?   :)


		-Lynx
		Brandon
From: David.Dyer-bennet@f100.n929.z1.tdkt.kksys.com (David Dyer-bennet)
Sender: FredGate@tdkt.kksys.com
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
Subject: Fan Fiction--copyright Infringement? (long)
Date: Wed, 20 Jan 1993 22:57:44 -0600

 Ka> There is an issue in copyright law about derivative works but almost all
of
 Ka> these are written in terms of a second
 Ka> party making a profit from the first
 Ka> party's work. 

 Ka> The case law goes on at length ....

 Ka> I know I'm arguing both sides of the
 Ka> issue.  It does strike me, tho, that it is
 Ka> not in the interest of the author to be so protective of the work.

I thought the problem was that *failing* to protect your copyright could cause
it to be voided; that authors are essentially *forced* to be so protective of
their work.

Profit is not relevant to copyright law, other than to assesment of damages
maybe.  Statutory damages should apply in any case, if the copyright was
registered before the infringement.

Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
From: tmohler+@cs.cmu.edu (Tim Mohler)
Subject: Re: The the great ongoing misogyny/misandry discussion
Organization: School of Computer Science, Carnegie Mellon
Date: Fri, 22 Jan 1993 21:52:59 GMT

In article <"22-Jan-93..8:18:23.EST".*.Alexandra_Haropulos.ADFMcLean_CSD@Xerox.com> Alexandra_Haropulos.ADFMcLean_CSD@XEROX.COM writes:
>Bradley, because I have gotten a bit tired of listening to repeated tirades on
>how men are testosterone-poisoned, irresponsible, abusers of all that is good

Ok, name two.

Tim
From: albatros@wings.micro.umn.edu (Bob Alberti)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
Subject: Re: Steven R. Boyett
Date: 25 Jan 93 22:58:27 GMT
Article-I.D.: news2.C1FMHH.1Gt
Organization: University of Minnesota
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1 PL6]

Pete Hardie (phardie@nastar.uucp) wrote:
: The second book of the AoS series has not been published due to Boyett
: changing publishers - the new one doesn't want to publish only the later
: half of a series, and the old one wasn't paying enough to suit Boyett.

Boyett must be pretty picky!  I read Ariel and it was o-kay, inasmuch as
I always enjoy a good postapocalyptic story, but it was no great shakes and
collapsed badly at the end (IMHO).  Architect of Sleep was well-titled, as
I was almost entirely unable to survive it, and found it (IMHO) weak, at best.

I wouldn't have minded some more stuff of Ariel's quality out of him, but
ever since John Varley kept me waiting eight years for his disappointing final
book in the Gaia series (I think that was it -- the last book was "Demon"),
I've been very intolerant of people who don't finish publishing series.
From: jkiparsk@reed.edu (Jonathan Kiparsky)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
Subject: Re: Tolkien's (and Donaldson's) style (was Re: writing Styles)
Date: 26 Jan 93 20:59:49 GMT
Article-I.D.: reed.1993Jan26.205949.3283
Organization: Reed College, Portland, Oregon

In article <1993Jan26.015129.26368@colorado.edu> robertm@alumni.cs.colorado.edu (MONTGOMERY ROBERT PH) writes:
>I also didn't appreciate all of the minor/trivial characters and
>geneology.  I know Tolkien was trying to create a realistic world,
>but I found a lot of that to be chaff, irrelevant to the story.
>He did put a lot of effort into developing the world, and if I were
>into fantasy gaming or maybe studying the books, I'm sure I'd
>appreciate the extra detail.

If you consider that Tolkien was trying to create myths and folk tales,  I
think the detail really makes the books work. The story feels like a part of 
a whole mythos, rather than a simple start-to-finish-that's-the-story. 


>change my reading style and read it more quickly and ignore the maps,
>genealogy details, etc.  Maybe that's how it should be read the first
>time, quickly for the action?

Try reading it aloud, preferably to children. Try to get into the world, not
just the words.
-jon
From: w95_cook@wums.wustl.edu
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
Subject: Is SF imaginative?
Date: 21 JAN 93 14:08:19 GMT
Organization: MIT PLASMA FUSION CENTER
NNTP-Posting-Host: msnews.wustl.edu

I saw a play last night entitled "Six Degrees of Separation".
One of the many themes of the play was the lack of true
imagination in contemporary society.  The main character at
one point criticized science fiction and _Star_Wars_ as pathetic
excuses for true imagination, which he felt should be something
that connects us to the "real world"

Is anyone else here familiar with this play?  What do you think?
Does SF possess "true imagination"?

JC




_______________________________________________________________

Jim Cook
W95_COOK@wums.wustl.edu

_______________________________________________________________
From: RKOSTER3@UA1VM.UA.EDU (Raph Koster)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
Subject: Steven R. Boyett
Date: 23 Jan 93 08:28:43 GMT

I have read  Ariel and The Architect of Sleep & enjoyed both. What is
the title of the second book in the Architect of Sleep series and
how might it be found? When did it come out? Anybody have an ISBN number?

-Raph Koster
rkoster3@ua1vm.ua.edu
Organization: Freshman, MCS general, Carnegie Mellon, Pittsburgh, PA