From: gpalo@digi.lonestar.org (Gerry Palo)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
Subject: Re: Who built the pyramids
Date: 16 Nov 92 16:52:11 GMT
Organization: DSC Communications Corp, Plano, TX

In article <emc.721745528@ro> emc@doe.carleton.ca (Eli Chiprout) writes:
>In <1992Nov13.155054.15136@digi.lonestar.org> gpalo@digi.lonestar.org (Gerry Palo) writes:
>
>>Immanuel Velikovsky resolved this problem in his book "Ages in Chaos".
>>He places the Exodus not in the New Kingdom but at the end of the
>>Middle Kingdom.  Following that was a 400 year period of Hyksos 
>>domination (which he equates to the Amalekites).  This flies in the
>>face of accepted chronology, but his case is so thoroughly argued and
>>the results of the revised chronology are so astounding that it is
>>really worth a look.  A great many apparent paradoxes are resolved in
>>the revised chronology, and the overall effect is that the traditional
>>and biblical picture of the ancient Hebrews turns out to be much closer
>>to the truth than that arrived at by modern egyptology and archaeology.
>>For example, the biblical descriptions of the Caananites turn out to
>>be true after all, and Saul, David and Solomon become contemporaries
>>of the XVIII Egyptian dynasty, long before the Ramesides.
>
>I suggest that you tune in to talk.origins and post this note.
>Velikovsky has been so discredited scientifically, it is not even funny. 
>
>>"Ages in Chaos", though well documented and scholarly, is also a good read.  
>>He published some continuation volumes too, but that one contains the main
>>part about the Exodus.
>
>It is NOT well-documented, NOT scholarly, and not even scientific.
>
>>Not to start a Velikovsky flame war (notice I didn't mention his other
>>books).
>
>Then don't bring up this writer that no scientist with any sort of
>accomplishments takes seriously.
>
>>Gerry Palo (73237.2006@compuserve.com)
>--
>Eli Chiprout                 
>Dept. of Electronics, 
>Carleton University, Canada
>emc@doe.carleton.ca                                     


I I think I understand where you are coming from.

If the current consensus of the scientific community is the arbiter of
scientific truth, then there should be no discussion at all.  As for
whether serious scientific scholars have universally rejected Velikovsky,
I challenge you on this point.  But the level of outrage in your 
reply leads me to say that we should not bring it up here, and perhaps
not elsewhere.  Velikovsky was a scholar and a scientist of no small
ability, and even Einstein, his friend in the later days of his life,
ackknowledged the legitimacy of his claims insofar as the need for 
cooperative open minded examination of them.

My mention of Ages in Chaos was an invitation to anyone interested in
the Exodus problem to have a read for yourself and decide whether it
is the work of a crank or of a serious scholar, who makes a strong 
case but never claimed to be infallible.  Ages in Chaos is a book of
history and archaeology, and while it touches on his other works at
a certain point, its hypotheses and the arguments for them stand on
their own.

For anyone interested in the reasons why Velikovsky has been discredited
and what that means, I suggest you look up "The Velikovsky Affair" (don't
remember the title) and also Velikovsky's own memoir, "Grave Diggers and
Star Gazers" (Or maybe it is "Star Gazers and Grave Diggers").

But the relevance to this bulletin board is (a) its relavence to the 
question, when did the Exodus occur and (b) of incidental interest,
that Velikovsky was a Jew and a friend of Einstein.  His father, and
he himself, were also active in Israel in the earlier days of the Zionist
movement.

As for the Exodus, see if placing it at the end of the Middle Kingdom makes
more sense.  The sojurn would coincide with the Middle Kingdom itself, the
period of the Judges with the Hyksos rule, and the kingdom of Saul, David,
and Solomon with the Eighteenth Dynasty (New Kingdom).

Cordially,
Gerry Palo (73237.2006@cis)