HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: mvishnu@sunee.uwaterloo.ca (m vishnu)
Subject: Re: kaaval theivam
Organization: University of Waterloo
Date: Wed, 12 Aug 1992 18:37:09 GMT

In article <Bsvt3H.9xs@watdragon.uwaterloo.ca> nasokan@yoho.uwaterloo.ca (Asokan) writes:
>In article <BstsIB.Ht7@watserv1.uwaterloo.ca> mvishnu@morse.uwaterloo.ca (m vishnu) writes:
>[...]
>>To this day, not a single Tamil movie have won any international award, for
>>it to be known outside.  Even Sinhalese movies, produced in Sri-lanka
>>have done better!!
>
>"*Even* the Sinhalese movies"?  The Sinhala cinema and theatre has
>always been far ahead of their Tamil counterparts.  Their first
>successes happened in the sixties, roughly in the same era
>as "pathar panchali" and "chemmeen".  They have consistently
>done good work since then.  Apart from Lester James Peiries,
>who is hailed as one of the three great Asian directors.
>there are a host of other, younger movie makers and playwrights.
>
>It is not exactly a shame to be trailing the Sinhalese in these
>areas.  It would take a *lot* of work to reach their level
>of achievement.

I think you misunderstood what I wrote.  I wrote that Tamil movie quality
is so poor even though there is a large market for it.  The Sinhalese
movies have a smaller audiance and even then they outperform the Tamils
by many folds.  It is a real shame on the Tamils. 

>
>
>Regards,
>
>- Asokan


Meenan Vishnu
Newsgroups: soc.culture.tamil
From: mvishnu@morse.uwaterloo.ca (m vishnu)
Subject: Re: Please be accurate to avoid flame wars.
Organization: University of Waterloo
Date: Wed, 19 Aug 1992 01:07:46 GMT

In article <l92vp2INN283@aludra.usc.edu> rammohan@aludra.usc.edu (Karthikeyan Rammohan) writes:
>In article <Bt6x0K.Cpw@watserv1.uwaterloo.ca> crathina@ritchie.uwaterloo.ca (C Rathinavelu) writes:
>>             Do you think that getting high marks ( as bramins and other 
>>fc people usually do ) in the subjects/studies means you are 100% fit for
>>getting admitted to professional colleges? If it is then that is why our
>>(your) people are not able to shine well in western countries. Pure theoretical
>>knowledge doesn't help for long term. One should also have some practical 
>>knowledge. In my opinion one should not be given admission to any colleges
>>based purely upon ones marks/grades.  
>>
>>Guindian,
>>C.RATHINAVELU
>>
>>"Vadhiyarai Kakai Pidithu Soppu Pottal Yaru Vendumanalum Madhippen Perralam".
>>
>>
>	So you do agree that we brahmins get much more higher marks
>than you do.But still you want to become engineers and doctors
>because you play football or cricket well or because you are good in
>some extra curricular activities. You also say that we do not shine well
>western countries becoz we are not good in extra curricular
>activities.On  what basis do youmake this statement.
>	Agreed, that one should not depend only on marks.but that is
>no justification of the fact that a guy who gets 94% is certainly
>better than a guy who gets 70%.Konjam uzhaikkanum sir,94%
>vangarathukku.summa onkantha vanthurathu.athe mathiri" cricket
>vilayadinathala ,enakku 70% vandadu ,illana naan 90%
>vangiiruppen",so enakku than antha seattunnu sonna athu payithiyakaratham.
>	intha mathiri pasanga, nailakke namakku vaithiyam parpangannu
>nenaicha , ayo, "antha doctorukku cricket than vilayada
>theriyum",vaithyam parka theriyathunnu than solvanga.
>	"gundichattiyila kuthirai ottindu",enakku doctor aaganum,
>engineer aaganum na,athu madathanam. ozhunga uzhaiccha than munnuku
>vara mudiyum. athe mothalla ellarum puringikanum.
>	Also some amount of theoretical background is essential to be
>succesful practically.
>rammohan

I happened to know the person whom you are reffering to as "you" in
your above article.  He is not from Madras city, nevertheless he 
came to Canada on a prestigious scholarship and finished his masters
degree in the minimum time possible and is now doing his PhD programme.

My former roommate (an Orissan, presently in Concordia U) is also
a villager who did excellent work at this university and completed
his masters with flying colours.

This compares to some of the Madras students, who either failed their
PhD comprehensive or who took almost 6 years to complete them at this
institute.

Meenan Vishnu
From: sp2@cec1.wustl.edu (Sundara Pandian)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.tamil
Subject: Re: History and J.J.
Date: 21 Aug 1992 21:46:08 -0500
Organization: UTexas Mail-to-News Gateway
NNTP-Posting-Host: cs.utexas.edu

 
Raghavan Jayaraman writes on `History and J.J.'
-------------------------------------------------

> We have noticed and will notice indiscriminate usage of books on history to
> counter or bolster one's argument without resting for a moment to ruminate
> about their usefullness in solving the existing problems. 

  I don't look at history to find means in it to solve the today's
 problems like one looks for a suitable screw-driver in his tool-
 box to unscrew a tiny screw that he has problems with. History-
 study is more like a family medical history that a good  doctor
 keeps in his records. He is not going to write a prescription for
 his patient just by looking at his family record. Nevertheless,
 he takes a patient seriously if he shows signs of a family disease.
 Then the doctor goes to the patient's family record and tries to
 see whether he shows the same symptoms of his family disease.This
 is like saying `History repeats itself'. It happens rarely that
 a doctor cures a patient completely in his first dose of medicine.
 If you see like  that perspective,  a historical article rarely 
 carries all correct views. The historical articles posted in this
 net are not to be taken as the last word. Neither the author nor 
 the poster claims so. It is upto the readers to buy that stuff or
 skip that stuff or think on that stuff and respond to the views
 posted. Just discarding the articles as `rubbish' and then clearing
 oneself as `I didn't say that' or calling the posters as `brain-
 dead' is just like vomiting. It doesn't pay anything positive to
 the net and it is a painful task for others to clean the trash 
 lying on the floor. Not to mention the dirt that gets to their
 white  dress in this task of cleaning.

> Reserving my opinion for a later time, I would like to share with you,
> since many of U are fans of JJ, very interesting lines from the book"
> JJ-sila kurippugal" by Sundara Ramaswamy.

> Translation:-

> A black dot moved from a [an interval of]distance to me, to show itself to
> be an elephant. But will dots move to me from a [an interval of] Time? No.
> They will not. Even I can't  go to them [to their time].We try to measure
> those dots from scarce information extracted by  dwelling into their time
> period and environment. History is like a veiled woman.
> Raghavan.

     I can't quite agree with J.J. The dots do move from an interval
 of time, though it doesn't show as an elephant. If I choose not to
 look them from my window and look inside, I don't see the dots, I
 agree. If I see through the window, I see the dots showing up in
 whatever form. I meet them in person if I open the door and go out.
     History is like a family disease.
                                                          S.Pandian.
                                                  sp2@cec1.WUSTL.edu
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
Newsgroups: soc.culture.tamil
From: raghu@morgan.ucs.mun.ca (Raghu B)
Subject: O.C Open Category or Out Cast or OC ?
Keywords: OC Open Category
Organization: Memorial University of Newfoundland
Date: Wed, 19 Aug 1992 00:28:10 GMT

Dear Netters,

	It is interesting to note that people are taking this
reservation problem very seriously. That is a good sign of improvement
for our Indian society.

	I wanted to convey this message. In tamil Nadu as far as
I know the reservation system is the worst in the whole of nation.
In educational institutions the reservations is like this.

	S.C/S.T	     -     8% + 15 %
	BACKWARD CASTE -   50 % (Oh my god!)
	OBC	       -   I think is a part of B.C or have they
			   taken over some share of O.C
	O.C  (open category) - remaining % .

	The funniest thing is that they have the left over % as
an open category. That is what really kills me. When you have
reservatons for all categorys, then the remaining share should come
to the left over category. But these cunning politicians wanted
mushtache as well as Kanji. They categorized the remaining % as an
open category so that all can compete under that category. They know
very well in their hearts that this category will be mostly occupied
by the left over people. (Brahmins and other forward castes people
which I doubt whether there are really any.)

	So should I call O.C as Outcast people category (Out cast
in the real sense.) or OC seats (i.e. by fortune or by luck).
How clever these guys are. So if at all a person beloging to the
backward category could some how make marks good enough to compete
in the category, he could get a seat under that category. But then
he will make use of the Back ward category advantage to get as far
as he could go. What a disgusting system. All he has got now is
a Double Advantage scene. There is no place for DEUCE. He should always
lead and others should be just a fellow picking up balls for him.
Like a person who wants to play tennis cannot play alone. He needs
someone on the otherside of the net. So he chooses Brahmin on the other
side. He knows that he plays better and he is sure to get the ball back.
But he will never let him serve the ball. This guy alone will serve the
ball and all that the person on the other side should do is to return
the ball. Ithu Enna nyayam sir.

	So even if you guys have a brilliant idea that the reservations
should be based upon the % of the population then Brahmins constitute
10% of the population. Then why the hell don't you guys give him his
share of 10% and not interfere with that. You have the remaining 90% and
you do whatever the hell you want to do with it. Why do you want to
screw others share. You get yours and we get ours. This is justice and
this is fairness.

	We are not those fellows who are looking for OC status. We want
our rights and we are not just some bloody outsiders. I hope you fellows
understand what I mean to say.

				
	Whatever I do ! I do for you   (India)
	Wherever I go ! I go for you   (India.)

			Raghu, Balasubramanian

Newsgroups: soc.culture.tamil
From: 5700aa@gmuvax2.gmu.edu ( )
Subject: The discrimination in Sri Lanka
Organization: GMU                                          
Date: Wed, 12 Aug 1992 13:21:20 GMT


"Sri Lankan Government discriminated against Tamil"

How big the lie is ?

Who enjoys more than 90% of the resources in Sri Lanka ?

What these liars are looking for ?
From: thiyagarajan@mims.enet.dec.com (RT)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.tamil
Subject: Re: Please be accurate to avoid flame wars.
Date: 18 Aug 92 21:27:08 GMT
Organization: Digital Equipment Corporation



In article <Bt6x0K.Cpw@watserv1.uwaterloo.ca>, crathina@ritchie.uwaterloo.ca (C Rathinavelu) writes...
>             Do you think that getting high marks ( as bramins and other 
>fc people usually do ) in the subjects/studies means you are 100% fit for
>getting admitted to professional colleges? If it is then that is why our

Please tell me other criteria you want for selecting students for higher
studies?

>(your) people are not able to shine well in western countries. Pure theoretical

This is news to me. I hear in general that Indians are successful in US. I do
not know about Canada (may be because there are less indians compared to other
nationalities from s.asia like sri-lankans)


>knowledge doesn't help for long term. One should also have some practical 
>knowledge. In my opinion one should not be given admission to any colleges
>based purely upon ones marks/grades.  

Again pl tell me how you got admission in Canada? Did you have other things
other than your merit (I assume that you got admission because of your merit.
If I am mistaken pl correct me) 

> 
>Guindian,
>C.RATHINAVELU
> 
>"Vadhiyarai Kakai Pidithu Soppu Pottal Yaru Vendumanalum Madhippen Perralam".
> 

Cheap shot. You can say 1000 reasons for other people' success out of jealosy

> 
> 
Nothing personal

Regards
RT
From: srini@ireq-num.hydro.qc.ca
Newsgroups: soc.culture.tamil
Subject: serendip, sErandheevu
Date: 14 Aug 92 15:01:57 GMT
Reply-To: srini@ireq-num.hydro.qc.ca (K.Srinivasan)
Organization: IREQ, Hydro-Quebec, QC, Canada
Originator: srini@acr

In article <1992Aug10.233922.8982@menudo.uh.edu> aruna@tree.egr.uh.edu (Venkatachalam Aruna) writes:
>  The following paragraph is excerpted from the book "Toposaurus - A 
>humorous treasury of toponyms". 
> Serendip was the Arab name for Ceylon(Sri Lanka since 1972), an
>island and independent state in the Indian Ocean south of India.
>venkat@jetson.uh.edu

In the olden times, all (Tamil) roads led to Madurai, from the far away Kanchi
as well as nearby YaazhpaaNam in 'sEran dheevu'.
The Christian, Saiva vELaaLar, fishermen and Bramin communities of the island
and the nearby the coastal districts have always maintained close
relations across the water, by marriage from time immemorial until almost this
very generation. Even today, some of the yaazhpaaNam dialect words and forms
are common in Ramanadapuram, thirunelvEli. Example: nippaattu = niluththu.

The language does not change sharply on a line. Every one is familiar with the
fuzzy border zone among TN, Kerala, Karnataka and Andhra. In Ramanadapuram
0% speak sinhala. The fuzzy border with sinhala occurs some 100 miles further.

Recently, during the late 19th century and early 20th century, labor shortage
in Tea estates spurred some migration to those areas from main land. This flow
in my opinion was more than compensated by movement to mainland for centers of
learning. It is easy to imagine if just 200 000 people moved either direction
100 years ago. In mainland 1 million in 50 million is untracable, while the
opposite migration is identifiable.

The 15 miles of water with many small islands was no geological barrier, and
the people were moving freely within a day's journey distance, of about 100
miles from home.

Does anybody know, since when exactly was this free movement of Tamils
restricted, with permission (visa) being required from higher authorities
in Delhi and Columbo?  I think it is very recent. I may be wrong.

K. Srinivasan  srini@ireq-num.hydro.qc.ca

P.S. Please do not infer anything political from the statements above.
Just feel free to comment or give your opinion with the same outlook.
From: cen466p@vaxc.cc.monash.edu.au (S. Parthasarhathy)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.tamil
Subject: Re: On `vaaymai' [ was Re: ADDENDUM : A puzzle ]
Date: 21 Aug 92 11:13:41 +1000
Organization: Dept. of Chem. Engg., Monash University, Australia

In article <1992Aug20.164401.11232@wuecl.wustl.edu>, sp2@cec1.wustl.edu (Sundara Pandian) writes:
> In article <Aug.19.15.44.48.1992.2599@endeavour.rutgers.edu> surendra@endeavour.rutgers.edu (Arun Surendran) writes:
>>
>>			ADDENDUM
>>			^^^^^^^^
>>
>>
>>	We have had raging debates over the 'truth' and 'what is right'
>>	and who was 'correct'. Here is something to ponder about :
>>
>>
> 
>       I have dealt with this same question in one of my
>  earlier articles in `alt.culture.tamil' titled `What is
>  truth ?' I presented a different story but facing the
>  same puzzle.
>       ThiruvaLLuvar gives an answer to this question in
>  his thirukkuRaL
>   " vaaymai enbathu yaadhenin yaavuyirkkum
                                ^^^^^^^^^^^^
                                yaathorkkum 

Writing it from memory. Not so sure. Can you please check this up.
>     theemai izhaadha solal. "
>                   [ In K.Srinivasan's Adhami scheme ]
>  VaLLuvar says that `vaaymai' is really speaking without
>  harming any living being. [ For an elegant translation,
>  please ask Rengaswamy Rajamanickam. He stopped posting
>  kuRaL translations nowadays. ]
>      I don't know of any word in English or Sanskrit 
>  meaning the `vaaymai' defined by VaLLuvar. `Truth' or
>  `Sathya' don't exactly mean `vaaymai'. 

what would happen if police chasing a murderer (instead of butcher chasing
a cow). this makes the scenario more complex to deal with. 

if the person shows the wrong path to the police is a mistake both morally 
and legally. but according the above kuRaL, he is right. 

May be vaLLuvar did not anticipate (or atleast did not write this kuRaL for)
these kinda scenarios. May be "yathorkkum" should be interpreted as the society
or majority of the people in the society, which means showing the right
direction does not violate the kuRaL/morality/law. 

Paarthaa
ChemEngg

Law may be right. Does not mean it is justice. 
Newsgroups: soc.culture.tamil
From: bs@wucs1.wustl.edu (Bala SWAMINATHAN)
Subject: Re: Let us build Periyar Temple
Organization: Washington University, St. Louis Mo.
Date: Mon, 17 Aug 1992 19:53:00 GMT

In article <1992Aug17.115629.13818@umiami.ir.miami.edu> lkumar@umiami.ir.miami.edu writes:
>In article <1992Aug17.135559.19286@engage.pko.dec.com>, thiyagarajan@mims.enet.dec.com (RT) writes:
>> 
>> [[[[ stuff about Periyar Temple and some rules deleted ]]]] 
>> 

Here is the great rule!!!

>> 4. Specially gifted persons like the brahmin bashers in SCT can get a 10%
>> discount for archanas after showing a notorized copy of a brahmni-bashing
>> artcle written by them in SCT to the bill-clerk.
>
>	Experience probably speaks for itself ...
>	Say it clearly that like the special treatment Brahmins enjoy
>	in the temple ....

Ever heard of the pazhamozhi "vEliyila pORa ONAnai sElaiyila
vENuminnu pOttukittu". Truely a Frankenstein monster for the OP.

I guess that was a fitting reply!!!

S_Bala
From: sp2@cec1.wustl.edu (Sundara Pandian)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.tamil
Subject: Uniform transliteration in the net : Some suggestions
Date: 14 Aug 1992 15:05:16 -0500
Organization: UTexas Mail-to-News Gateway
NNTP-Posting-Host: cs.utexas.edu

       Uniform transliteration in the net : Some suggestions
     --------------------------------------------------------
        Many prolific writers in the net like
   K.Srinivasan ( srini@ireq-num.hydro.qc.ca )
   Sundara Pandian ( sp2@cec1.WUSTL.edu )
   Meenan Vishnu ( mvishnu@morse.waterloo.edu )
    ...............
  are currently using the ADAMI transliteration scheme
  developed by K.Srinivasan.  So, this ADAMI scheme is
  not really new to the readers of this net. I have often
  requested Ravi Sinnarajah to post this scheme in the
  net alt.culture.tamil for the benefit of the new users
  of the ADAMI scheme. I don't remember seeing any of his
  postings introducing this scheme. If Ravi Sinnarajah is
  reading this article, I request him to repost his article
  in this net for new users of ADAMI scheme. It is very
  easy to follow and those who have difficulties in using
  this scheme could post their queries in the net which
  could be easily resolved as many Tamils are currently
  using ADAMI scheme. 
      I propose K.Srinivasan's ADAMI scheme as the uniform
  translieration scheme in the net. ( This is another vote
  for ADAMI ! ).
      I understand that there are some people who are using
 the ITRANS scheme like Sridhar Venkatraman and Ramesh
 Vaidhyanadhan. They may have some difficulties in following
 articles in ADAMI scheme.
      I see the need for a uniform translieration scheme for
 this net, but both the schemes ADAMI and ITRANS are used by
 the nettors. There are also many readers who are quite
 unfamiliar with either scheme. I don't like the idea of
 confusing them with posting both the schemes. I suggest the
 users of ADAMI and ITRANS to settle for a common scheme in
 the net or to agree to keep both ADAMI and ITRANS as standard
 schemes in the net keeping ADAMI as the standard scheme for
 the new users of Tamil transliteration schemes.
      I request nettors to post their views on this topic.
                                                   S.Pandian.
--------------------------------------------------------------
  
 
Newsgroups: soc.culture.tamil
From: ramesh@veda (Ramesh Doddamani)
Subject: Re: reservation
Reply-To: ramesh@veda.cwru.edu
Organization: Case Western Reserve University, Cleveland, Ohio, (USA)
Date: Sat, 22 Aug 92 05:28:41 GMT

In article <Bt9Los.KrH@news.cso.uiuc.edu> jsg9939@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (J. Sreedhar  
) writes:
> kumar@syd.dit.CSIRO.AU (V.R.Kumar) writes:
> 
> 
> >Reservation is very much essential for a country like India.
> > 
> 
> >Anbudan,
> 
> >V R Kumar
> 
> 
> >-- 
> > V.R.Kumar (Ramkumar Venkatachalam)                                 
> > CSIRO, Division of Information Technology                         
> > P.O.Box:1599, Macquarie Centre, North Ryde, NSW 2113, AUSTRALIA  
> 
> Okay, but for how long? And should it be from cradle to grave?!

You are right. Not for long. BTW, the Central Government has been extending the  
reservations 10 years at a time. Discrimination done for a long time cannot be  
cured in a short while. Considering the history of India 50 years is not  
enough. Maybe some more time.
 
> Isn't it true that all humans (and Indians in particular) tend
> to `relax' and become less productive when there is no accountabiliy?

That's true. (I am talking of schools/colleges here). If a person gets a seat  
through reservation and doesn't make it, he will drop out. One attemptt to  
educate somebody failed. If you are going to say that it should have been given  
to somebody 'deserving', well, that deserving person does find something  
better.

Ramesh

--
From: viswanath@draco.rutgers.edu
Newsgroups: soc.culture.tamil
Subject: Uniform transliteration: vote pro/con
Date: 13 Aug 92 22:41:19 GMT
Organization: Rutgers University RUCS-Newark

In a recent posting, Asokan responded to a request I had made for a
common transliteration scheme--I suggested Adami.  Even though on
other grounds, he professed to dislike such imposed uniformity (I 
sympathise with him), he was willing to switch to a single 
transliteration scheme, if there was sufficient agreement/willingness/
unanimity on the net.  Since his query was somewhat lost in his
original post, I am raising the question again.  Could we have people
write in, to express their opinion on these two matters:

1) Should netters try to use a single uniform transliteration scheme?
2) Which scheme should it be?

My own answers are:
1) Yes.  2) Adami.

P.V. Viswanath
From: mani@subversion.Berkeley.EDU (Mani Varadarajan)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.tamil
Subject: Re: KarppaGraham ???
Date: 14 Aug 92 11:01:53
Organization: University of California, Berkeley
Distribution: world
	<BsxM2w.Htz@watserv1.uwaterloo.ca>
Reply-To: mani@sprite.Berkeley.EDU
NNTP-Posting-Host: subversion.berkeley.edu
In-reply-to: mvishnu@morse.uwaterloo.ca's message of 13 Aug 92 17:04:08 GMT


In article <BsxM2w.Htz@watserv1.uwaterloo.ca> mvishnu@morse.uwaterloo.ca (m vishnu) writes:
   In article <1992Aug12.164604.23295@mercury.ncat.edu> setty@mercury.ncat.edu (Anup A. Setty) writes:

   >>It is not necessary to remove the shirt to enter the Chidambaram temple.
   >>Only if one wants to have a very close darshan (near the 'karppagraham')
   >>of Lord Nataraja, he is asked to remove his shirt.          ^

   >	What is the  meaning of the above word  ----------/
   >	karppa == ???
   >	graham == planet						

   Few years ago (around 1983, when I was last in India), B.V.Raman, in his
   'Astrological Magazine' wrote that the Sanskrit word 'graha' actually means
   'centre of energy'.

The error of the original posting seems to have propagated.
The correct word in Sanskrit is "garbha-grha", not "----graha".
I think (I am not sure of the exact meaning in the temple
literature) that it literally means the "interior home", where
garbha = interior and grha = home.  The garbha-grham is the
innermost part of the temple.

It is interesting to compare the symbolism evident behind the
architecture of the bhakti temple and the Christian church.  In
the temple, the most sacred place is in the innermost part,
representing the travel from the external to the internal and
the presence of God as our innermost self; in a church, the
altar has as its ceiling the highest part of the church,
representing the heights of spiritualism and the presence of
God.

Yours,
Mani

Newsgroups: soc.culture.tamil