From: adams@spss.com (Steve Adams)
Newsgroups: talk.religion.misc
Subject: Re: The delusional nature of sincere belief.
Date: 28 Dec 92 23:34:38 GMT
Organization: SPSS Inc.

drake+@cs.cmu.edu (Drake) writes:

Jumping into a thread that you really weren't following, eh?

>In article <Bzz496.E9@spss.com> adams@spss.com (Steve Adams) writes:
>
>>gives the grace to beleive to those who accept it.  In order to accept it,
>>all you need to is stop saying 'no.'  Once you truly do that in your mind,
>>your heart will confess Christ as Lord, if you truly accept that.  There's
>
>*deleted*
>
>>Explained above...you didn't *really* stop saying 'no'...;-)
>
>Anybody else see the humor in this 'argument?'
>
>All you have to do to believe is stop saying no to God.  If you *think*
>you stopped saying no to God, but you still don't believe, then the
>*only* explanation, obviously, is that you didn't *really* stop saying
>no.  (The alternative explanation, that you were too smart to be taken
>in by the christian con game, is, of course, a heresy and a lie of
>the evil one.)  The only way you know if you *really* stop saying no is
>when you believe.  So keep trying to brainwash yourself!  It'll work
>eventually!
Except that this was in response to an specific person (Sean Hartigan), who
claimed to have 'accepted Christ,' but didn't believe in the resurection or
the incarnation.  Sean's point was that since he had "accepted" Christ, he
was covered.  I pointed out that this was not the case.

Secondly, we were discussing 'heart' confession, as oppsosed to mind
confession.  Sean's claim was that the heart was uncontrollable, and
therefore any claim 'by the heart' wasn't controllable and thus such a
requirement was impossible.

As to your specific comments, the issue is that when one accepts Jesus
Christ as Lord, one does so with their whole mind and whole heart and whole
soul.  If you don't do that, then you haven't accepted.

There is no con game here.  It is your choice to make.  Your decision on
whether or not you think Scripture is the word of God.  No force, no
intimidation. 

>>This is an interesting mental state...how does one function when one truly
>>believes that nothing is certain?  Everything becomes uncertain, every act
>>has undefined results, every thought is uncertain...how do you make
>>decisions?  (Don't give me that 'process' stuff....give me an answer on how
>
>Probabilities and assumptions.  Am I certain that when I dial this certain
>number, I'm going to be connected to the computer at the University?  No.
>But a trusted friend tells me so, and when I've done so in the past I've
>been connected 100% of the time.  This leads to an overwhelming belief that
>if I repeat the actions again, I'll be connected again.  All available
>evidence assures me that identical actions result in identical effects.
>Am I 'certain' of this?  No.  It has always been the case, and there is
>no reason to expect that it will change today.  But it _can_ change, and
>is not a logical necessity of which I can be 'certain.'

If you had followed Sean's thread, you would know that he believes that
there is no free will, no 'decisions' that can be made, since everything we
do is a product of our past or our environment.

At least follow the thread before jumping in with non-answers.

 -Steve
--
  The opinions expressed above are those of the author and not SPSS, Inc.
                         -------------------
   adams@spss.com                                  Phone: (312) 329-3522
   Steve Adams        "Space-age cybernomad"       Fax:   (312) 329-3558
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