From: curt@oasys.dt.navy.mil (Curt Welch)
Newsgroups: rec.games.pbm
Subject: Re: Galaxy Results Format
Date: 30 Dec 92 08:00:07 GMT
Reply-To: curt@oasys.dt.navy.mil (Curt Welch)
Organization: Carderock Division, NSWC, Bethesda, MD


I wrote:
>>Galaxy is an interesting game because most of it is non-obvious.

>>Most of this is non-obvious because the correct answer depends on guessing
>>what your opponets will do - or are doing.

In rec.games.pbm, bc@fccn01.fccn.pt (Luis Miguel Sequeira) writes:
>Well... uh, that doesn't apply just to Galaxy, you know... :-)
>
>Even a TOTALLY OBVIOUS game  (ie., one where all players  have all the
>rules & formulae of  the  game) has a   "non-obvious"  part:  that the
>players are human, and thus, unpredictable...

But with many games, like chess, go, etc., you don't really have to
guess what the other player is going to do.  You basically just assume
that he will make the best move possible.  There are no secrets in
the game because you both can see the entire board.  If you are trying
to guess what your opponent will do, then it's just because you
can't figure out what your true "best" move is.

But in Galaxy, guessing is required.  Your best move requires
you to guess what your opponent will do.  There is no absolute
"best" move like there is in chess.

With chess, it's easy to write an algorithm to calcuate the best move -
but imposible to find a machine that can run the algorthim in a
resaonable time.  And the algorithm wouldn't have to guess what move
the other palyer would make.  It would just find the best possible
move based on any possible move from the opponent.

With Galaxy, the algorithm would have to make a guess as to what the
opponent would do.  It's like playing paper-scissors-rock.  The best
move can't be calculated.

I wrote:
>>Actually, I'd like to see a Galaxy type game that wouldn't last quite
>>so long.  At one move a week-day, Galaxy lasts something like 4 to 5
>>months.  I'd like to see a game that would only last 1 to 2 months ...

>Hmm... ever played any role-playing game?  For me, the fun  I get from
>it as a player (I almost invariably end up as GM, but...) is to have a
>character I can identify  myself with, and develop  him/her so that it
>becomes  more and more "real".  ...

>I _really_ think that a 2-month, one-week-turn game is _too_ short.

Just to make this clear - I was talking about a 2 month, 5 turn per week
game.

I haven't really played any of the role-playing games, but I know what
you mean about liking to build up your player.  And it's kinda neat playing
a long Galaxy game.  You spend so much time studying the Galaxy, and
talking to other players that they become somewhat real.  The game
starts to feel like home.

But the problem (or just the fact) with Galaxy is that once you loose
a big fight, you're pretty much out of the game.  There's no real way to
start over and come back later and win.  One (major) mistake and you're
dead.  Once you get too far behind in industry you can never catch up.

It might be interesting to try and modify the game so palyers were a
lot harder to knock out of the game.  Where you could loose more
battles but not loose the war.  Then the concept of having longer
games would make more sense.

>>I'm going to try and find some time next week to implement "my" version
>>of the game.
>
>Yeah, count me on!!!

Well, the week is more than half over, and I haven't begun to get all
the things done I wanted to do.  But if I do come up with a modified
version of Galaxy, I'm sure I'll talk about it here.

Curt Welch
Newsgroups: rec.games.pbm