HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: tommy@hilbert.att.com (Tom Reingold)
Subject: Re: Cyling and Doping
Reply-To: tommy@boole.att.com
Organization: AT&T Bell Labs, Holmdel, NJ, USA
Date: Mon, 14 Dec 1992 15:43:40 GMT

mack@oakhill.sps.mot.com (Gregg Mack ( Sun )) writes:

$ <K3018E9@ALIJKU11.BITNET> writes:

$ >- What do you know about doping?
$ >- What do the pros take?
$ >- Do you take anything?

$ >Steve.

$ What kind of BULLSHIT is this?  This is no place for discussions on
$ crap like this.

$ (Just my $0.02 worth.)

Why, because of your moral views on this?  Why don't we discuss the
merits and detriments of doping?  It may eliminate the need for
morality.  It may show that doping is not worth it.  If we do not
discuss it, we end up with incomplete information.  That is not a good
basis for a decision.

Steve did not indicate that he uses drugs.  His post does not even
indicate that he's thinking of doing it.  He asks others what they are
doing.
-- 
Tom Reingold
AT&T Bell Labs, Holmdel, NJ
tommy@boole.att.com or att!boole!tommy
OOganization: Arizona State University
Date: Thursday, 17 Dec 1992 17:44:39 MST
From: SEAN P. GARRETT <IDSPG@ASUACAD.BITNET>
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.racing
Subject: LOOK mtb pedal/shoe system

I recently saw the Look pedal/shoe system for offroad in a shop here.
Has anyone out there had any experience with this setup recreational
or racing?  I currently run 737s but they are quickly approaching
retirement, are these a alternative, how do they compare with Shimano?

Sean Garrett
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.racing
From: tthiel@cs.uiuc.edu (Terry Thiel)
Subject: Re: Cyling and Doping
Organization: University of Illinois, Dept. of Comp. Sci., Urbana, IL
Date: Wed, 16 Dec 1992 12:58:30 GMT

les@SAIL.Stanford.edu (Les Earnest) writes:
>Zalman Stern writes:
>   Many (most?) apsirin tablets contain caffeine as well. What is a "limited"  
>   substance? What is the limit for caffeine? 
>The limit on caffeine is 12 micrograms per milliliter of urine.
>You would have to drink an unreasonable amount of coffee to get there.
>Les Earnest           Phone:  415 941-3984    Fax: 415 941-3934

Well since it's finals week I'm pretty much there!
-Terry
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.racing
From: seanodon@gn.ecn.purdue.edu (Aragorn)
Subject: Re: Collegiate Cycling and YOUR school
Organization: Purdue University Engineering Computer Network
Date: Fri, 11 Dec 92 18:12:44 GMT

In article <168B714A74.97994779@wsuvm1.csc.wsu.edu> 97994779@wsuvm1.csc.wsu.edu writes:
>I am curious as to how much support various collegiate clubs get from their
>respective schools. here at WSU, we get some cash through the Associated
>Students of WSU. (Washington State Univ) We are kinda limited in how we can
>spend that money though. We also rais money our selves, and our A teams
>never have to spend their own money when travelling except on food.
> 
>PAT at WSU

Here at Purdue, at least in the past, we have gotten very little from
the University.  We are a club sport, and thus don't qualify for
funding.  A few years ago we looked into trying to become one, but the
procedure was long and expensive.  There was a two year probationary
period were we still don't get support, but we _had_ to use and pay for
University vehicles to go to all away events.  

I think the only advantages we get from the University is the ability to
use classrooms for meetings, and the use of the school name.  Even for
our collegiate race, anything we have done by the University for setting
up costs us a large sum of money.  A few years ago we did get some money
from the alumni association to go to Nationals.  

Most of the club revinues (sp?) come from dues, sponsorship (more
equipment than money), and profits from our race.

Aragorn
-- 
***seanodon@ecn.purdue.edu***********************************************
*  Man-in-Black: "You mean you'll put down your rock and I'll put 	*
*		  down my sword, and we'll try to kill each other 	*
*		  like civilized people."	_The Princess Bride_	*
From: davis@lugg.utah.edu (Darrell R. Davis)
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.racing
Subject: Re: USCF 1993 Categorization Guidelines (cat.2 -> 1)
Date: 17 Dec 92 15:45:12 GMT
	<1992Dec17.044428.16212@netcom.com>
	<1992Dec17.151358.26637@ucsu.Colorado.EDU>
Organization: College of Science, University of Utah


on Thu, 17 Dec 1992 15:13:58 GMT,
robinsmm@ucsu.Colorado.EDU (ROBINSON MARYBETH) said:

>I spoke with John Tarbert this morning and he did confirm exactly what
>Les has outlined.  His rational for the 200 rider cat.1 limit was that
>it would eliminate the qualifications rounds at Nationals and also
>make cat.1/open a viable category.  
>
>* Will there be enough pros and cat.1s to make the cat.1/pro or 'open' 
>  category viable?  I personally don't think we have enough cat.1/pro
>  riders _currently_ to hold many of these races.

>> Can someone give me a feeling for how many Cat 1s there are right now?
>> More or less than the proposed limits of 200 men and 120 women?


The USCF rulebook says that there were 240 Cat 1 road riders at the
beginning of the season.  I know that in our district there were
several upgrades to Cat 1 during the season.

Although I didn't attend Nationals this year, I heard that the field
size was too big, resulting in a lot of mishaps.  I know that at least
one very good local rider finished about 90th in the National RR race,
partially because he got behind a large pileup, he was in the top 10
in the Olympic trials race so his claim seems to be valid.  

In contrast to this years race, last years nationals retained the
"old" format of 1-2's with qualifiers.  It seem to me that this was a
very good system.  It seems to me that a system of qualifying races
resulting in a "finals" field of 120 is more fair and results in a
better race than 200 Cat 1's crunched together.

Another issue at this years nationals was that there seemed to be more
teamwork than usual.  I would argue that qualifying races might
diminish these opportunities somewhat and that this is desirable for a
national championship.

If cycling continues to grow then I would expect that restricting Cat
1 to 200 riders is too small of a number.  This makes it difficult to
put on Pro/1 races.  The USCF needs to monitor the quality of the top
riders and adjust the Cat 1 allowance accordingly.  This would assure
that if the talent is there, then there are riders to fill the fields.

I would like to seem more Cat 1s because then I don't have to race
against them if there is a seperate Cat 1 race.  These guys definetely
fall into the "no real job" category.


--------------------------------------------------------------
 
 Darrell R. Davis 
 Medicinal Chemistry 
 University of Utah 
  
--------------------------------------------------------------
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.racing
From: marquis@netcom.com (Roger Marquis)
Subject: Re: Cold Weather hydration (was: Re: Frozen water bottles)
Organization: Netcom 
Date: Sun, 20 Dec 1992 00:45:15 GMT

In article <3450006@hplred.HPL.HP.COM> jbrandt@hplred.HPL.HP.COM (Jobst Brandt) writes:
>What's the actual fact in contrast to facts.  Just because I
>suggested that you need less water in the winter and especially when
>the temperature is below freezing, you don't need to interpret that
>as never drinking water.  I drink plenty of water but not when I
>don't need it.

I don't think anyone interpreted you post as promoting 'never' drinking 
water Jobst.  It was clear enough that you think most riders drink too 
much water.  From my (and _all_ sports physiologists) perspective most 
riders in fact drink far to little, even in winter.  Since thirst is 
suppressed by hard exercise your statement can only be interpreted as
bad advice.  

>I see these ad hominem arguments as a retort from those who feel my
>comments about watering exercises in busy intersections struck too
>close to home.  
>jobst_brandt@hplabs.hp.com

If only life were so simple.  I think the retort was to a poorly
thought out comment.  Like many of us who had to wade through too much
bad coaching to become decent racers, I take offense to bad advice.

Roger (marquis@netcom.com)

Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.racing
From: cappykid@amy12.stanford.edu ( Lim)
Subject: ...Regarding Hampsten '93
Organization: DSO, Stanford University
Distribution: su.org.cycling
Date: Thu, 17 Dec 92 02:35:23 GMT


A few days ago I posted a notice where I stated that it appeared as if  
Andy Hampsten had changed teams to Subaru.  The other day I had one of my  
far-more-fluent-in-French friends read the article and point out to me  
that I was wrong, as several others have done as well via E-mail.
----Eddie Lim
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.racing
From: mjohnsto@jenny.shearson.com (Mike Johnston)
Subject: Re: Dave Harvey Speaks Out on Nipple Rash
Organization: Lehman Brothers
Date: Tue, 15 Dec 1992 16:44:47 GMT

In article <9212150046.AA07451@pepvax.pepperdine.edu> kcary@pepvax.pepperdine.edu writes:
   If this harvey guy or gal was so cool, we would see some super-human
   funnies, or parody. Instead we get un-cool behavior: personal abuse, a foul
   mouth, bragging, & taunts. This isn't just the occasional slip that we all
   have seen or an outburst we've been involved in on the net. This wretch has
   these behaviors as his reason for existence. 

Oh my God! It's The End Of The Net, As We Now Know It! Someone, quick, call
Brad Templeton!

   This trash comes from someone who is scared to use his or her real name.
   One does not have to be clever at all to beat the SMTP system the way
   pseudo-harvey does. No coding involved. However, it takes the mentality of
   a computer-virus writer to do what he/she does with that tiny knowledge. 

This is quite a newsworthy pronouncement. Particularly since one would
forge via *NNTP* (or the appropriate news posting mechanism) rather than
via SMTP, which is for processing mail.

   Cheer up, pseudo-dave! And get a life. Go out and talk face to face 'til
   you find some humans who like you, even if you're not LeMond.

One more thing I should mention. Many moons ago, petty users such as
yourself actually got off their high-horse and did something about this
perceived problem aside from whining about it. The result is known
as the Kill File. It's a wonderful thing, actually, and it keeps
thenthitive people like you from theeing things that might offend.

If this reference isn't enough, perhaps Jobst might be able to offer
some technical assistance on its usage. A quick mention of 'Mike Johnston'
and 'kill file' ought to provoke a stimulating response. 8-)

And please try to lighten up, it's a long way until finals at
pepperdine.edu. If you don't relax a bit you'll never make it.
A double century might take the edge off.

MJ






--
Michael R. Johnston, System Administrator	mjohnsto@shearson.com
"The reasonable man adapts himself to the world; the unreasonable one
persists in trying to adapt the world to himself. Therefore, all progress
depends on the unreasonable man." - G.B. Shaw
From: loucks@isrc.sandia.gov (Cliff Loucks)
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.racing
Subject: Boxing Day?
Date: 17 Dec 92 04:33:35 GMT
Organization: Sandia National Labs, Org. 1600, Albq., NM

OK, this is probably not the correct newsgroup...

My bicycle racing calendar, from Famous Cycling Videos, lists
December 26th as "Boxing Day (except USA & CANADA)".

I give up.  What's Boxing Day?

This didn't come up last year, did it?  My memory's not what it used to
be, since I started boxing.  Fortunately, I don't box anymore; do I?

By the way, the calendar also shows Charlie Mottet turning 30 today
(Wednesday), and Moreno Argentin will be 32 tomorrow.  I guess that
"age before beauty" saying makes since, at least it did at the '86
Worlds.

Cliff
-- 

Cliff Loucks  <=>  loucks@isrc.sandia.gov
Sandia National Labs, Albuquerque, New Mexico
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.racing
From: border@wilbur.nas.nasa.gov (Ryan A. Border)
Subject: Re: Boxing Day?
Organization: NAS, NASA Ames Research Center, Moffett Field, CA
Date: Thu, 17 Dec 92 21:53:39 GMT

loucks@isrc.sandia.gov (Cliff Loucks) writes:

>My bicycle racing calendar, from Famous Cycling Videos, lists
>December 26th as "Boxing Day (except USA & CANADA)".
>
>I give up.  What's Boxing Day?

Boxing Day, the day after Christmas... when you "box" up all your old
stuff that you don't need anymore (now that you have all new stuff from
Christmas) and give/donate it to someone who needs it more.  It was a 
holiday in Canada when I was growing up there (isn't it still?).  

At least this is what my Dad told me years back...

Ryan.
From: kc@core.rose.hp.com (Kurt Chan)
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.racing
Subject: Re: Cold Weather hydration (was: Re: Frozen water bottles)
Date: 20 Dec 92 17:44:37 GMT
Organization: HP, Systems Technology Division
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1.8 PL6]

I must have missed something.  What exactly is it about drinking
at intersections that's supposed to be particularly impressive to
motorists?  

Kurt 

PS (To the internet geeks, I mean experts - Dave Harvey is having more fun
    at your expense than you realize.  Satire at the expense of those who
    take themselves WAY too seriously is always entertaining, though...)
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.racing
From: jmvance@iastate.edu (Judy M Vance)
Subject: need advice on trainers
Keywords: trainers
Organization: Iowa State University, Ames IA
Date: Wed, 16 Dec 1992 16:55:35 GMT

My husband has been competing in duathalons the last
few years. However, the weather in Iowa is the pits 
for training in the winter. This year especially....
we've had 6" of snow on the ground since before 
Thanksgiving! Anyway... we're in the market for a 
trainer.

He found an interesting alternative to help him make the
decision between rollers or not rollers. In the Holiday
Performance catalog is a "Technique rollers with front
stabilizer bar and optional wind fan". Can be used as a 
set of rollers or you can attach the front stabilizer 
bar to it and mount your fork to that. Your rear wheel still
rides on the rollers.

Does anyone have any experience with this hybrid?
I'd really appreciate the help.

jmvance@iastate.edu
From: ianbjor@helium.gas.uug.arizona.edu (Ian D. Bjorhovde)
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.racing
Subject: Re: need advice on trainers
Keywords: trainers
Date: 16 Dec 92 22:01:49 GMT
Organization: University of Arizona, Tucson

In article <jmvance.724524935@vislab.me.iastate.edu> jmvance@iastate.edu (Judy M Vance) writes:

>He found an interesting alternative to help him make the
>decision between rollers or not rollers. In the Holiday
>Performance catalog is a "Technique rollers with front
>stabilizer bar and optional wind fan". Can be used as a 
>set of rollers or you can attach the front stabilizer 
>bar to it and mount your fork to that. Your rear wheel still
>rides on the rollers.
>
>Does anyone have any experience with this hybrid?
>I'd really appreciate the help.

The fact that your rear wheel is on "rollers" doesn't make any
difference - Windtrainers were designed to allow cyclists to do sprints
and "hard" workouts that they usually can't do on rollers.  However, the
fact that a windtrainer requires no balance doesn't help keep a smooth
pedal stroke.

I'm sure that you will get many opinions about which to use, which is
better, etc, but I think that Performance's deal is a pretty good one.
One of my friends bought some rollers from Performance and hasn't had
any complaints (hi dave!)   But with the attachment, you have the option
of using both which would really give variety!

Good luck,


--Ian D. Bjorhovde
  ianbjor@gas.uug.arizona.edu
  Department of Materials Science and Engineering
  The University of Arizona
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.racing
From: burkins@green.crayola.cs.psu.edu (Chad T Burkins)
Subject: Re: 1992 World MTB Championships on TV
Organization: Penn State Center for Academic Computing
X-Newsreader: Tin 1.1 PL3
Date: Mon, 14 Dec 92 22:45:32 GMT

paynter@bnr.ca (Stuart Paynter) writes:
: 
: The 1992 World MTB championships is going to be aired on TV
: this Thursday evening on the Canadian sports channel TSN.  For
: those of us who get TSN, it will be on:
: 
:                  Thursday, December 17
:                  8:00 pm EST

	Does anyone know if this will be aired in the States ?  I just
took a quick look in a TV guide, but couldn't find anything on ESPN.
However, my guide doesn't have a specific sports section, so I couldn't
research it very thouroughly.  Any help would be appreciated.
Ride on........
-- 
Chad Burkins           |Life is short,     ---   __ o    __~o    __ o
-----------------------|    ride like    ----    _`\<,   _`\<,   _`\<,
ctb103@psuvm.psu.edu   |      the wind.    ---  ( )/( ) ( )/( ) ( )/( )
burkins@crayola.cs.psu.edu |----------------------------------------------

 


Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.racing
From: les@SAIL.Stanford.edu (Les Earnest)
Subject: Re: Cyling and Doping
Reply-To: les@cs.stanford.edu
Organization: Computer Science Department, Stanford University
	<1992Dec14.195810.12867@julian.uwo.ca>
Date: Tue, 15 Dec 1992 06:48:37 GMT

Mike Thornton writes:
   .  .  .
   As for me doping I can only be honest and say that I did take aspirin to
   help ease the pain of racing for 5 days straight and I did take dristan
   to let me breath given my terrible allergies. Those are banned substances
   by the UCI.   [.  .  .]

Utter nonsense -- asperin is not a UCI-banned substance and probably
never will be.  I don't know offhand what Dristan contains but I
certainly would not take the advice of someone who obviously doesn't
know what he is talking about.

Anyone in the U.S. who has drug-related questions can get answers by
calling (toll-free) 800-233-0393, which is the U.S. Olympic Committee
drug hotline in Colorado Springs.
--
Les Earnest           Phone:  415 941-3984    Fax: 415 941-3934
Internet: Les@cs.Stanford.edu              USMail: 12769 Dianne Drive
UUCP: . . . decwrl!cs.Stanford.edu!Les         Los Altos Hills, CA 94022
Xref: sparky rec.bicycles.racing:947 rec.bicycles.marketplace:1673
From: chandler@wc.novell.com (Mark Chandler)
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.racing,rec.bicycles.marketplace
Subject: Re: LOOK mtb pedal/shoe system
Date: 18 Dec 92 01:36:21 GMT
Organization: Novell, Inc. - Walnut Creek

In article <92352.174439IDSPG@ASUACAD.BITNET> SEAN P. GARRETT <IDSPG@ASUACAD.BITNET> writes:
>I recently saw the Look pedal/shoe system for offroad in a shop here.
>Has anyone out there had any experience with this setup recreational
>or racing?  I currently run 737s but they are quickly approaching
>retirement, are these a alternative, how do they compare with Shimano?

I, too, was interested in them because my Alpinestars shoes are compatible
with the Look 2-bolt "mountain" cleat.  Anyway, I noticed that they were
being blown-out at one of the local "pro-shops."  When I enquired about
them, the clerk actually told me not to buy them, claiming that they were
"no good."

I've heard of people using them on the road just fine.  I don't know
anyone who's used them off-road, however.  If my shoes used the 3-hole
Look cleats, I'd consider them.  (The 2-hole Look cleat is really
"strange.")

I only know of two shoes that support the Look mountain cleat (AXO
and Alpinestars), but there are dozens of shoes that are SPD-compatible.
Me, I'm ordering some MKS (aka SunTour) MicroClaw pedals when they're
back in stock.

>
>Sean Garrett


--
Mark Chandler               Novell, Inc.          510/975-4522
chandler@wc.novell.com      Walnut Creek, CA
==================================================================
     The opinions expressed above are mine, not my employer's.
From: johnr@col.hp.com (John T. Rasper)
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.racing
Subject: USCF Release - Senior athletes of 1992
Date: 17 Dec 1992 05:09:50 GMT
Organization: HP Colorado Springs Division
NNTP-Posting-Host: hplsdvf.col.hp.com

For Immediate Release - October 21, 1992   (BBS not up to minute)
Contact:  Steve Penny or Woody Franklin  (719) 578-4581

Hartwell & Golay Named USCF Male & Female Athlete of the Year

The United States Cycling Federation (USCF) has chosen Erin
Hartwell and Jeanne Golay as their 1992 Male and Female Athlete
of the Year.

The two winners were chosen by ballot of the USCF board of directors,
coaches, staff, and media throughout the nation.

Chosen as the 1992 USCF Female Athlete of the Year was Jeanne Golay of
Glenwood Springs, Colo. Golay had an impressive year as she won a world
title in the team time trial at the 1992 World Cycling Championships in
Benidorm, Spain. She teamed with Bunki Bankaitis-Davis (Cleveland, Ohio;
Look), Jan Bolland (Boulder, Colo.; Look), and Eve Stephenson (Covington,
La.; T.G.I. FridayUs) to defeat 1991 champion France for the title.

An Olympic games participant, the 30 year-old Golay earned the only
automatic berth on the 1992 U.S. Olympic Cycling Team on the basis of
her performance at the 1992 Olympic Road Trials & National Championships
in Altoona, Pa. In the Olympic Games, she survived an early crash to
finish sixth in the individual road race.

Golay picked up three national titles at the Olympic Road Trials & National
Championships. She won championships in the individual time trial, team
time trial and individual road race, raising her career total to six national
championships since 1988.

Olympic bronze medalist Erin Hartwell was awarded the 1992 USCF Male Athlete
of the Year. The Indianpolis, Ind., native who rides for Seattle based TCBY,
finished third in the kilometer time trial in Barcelona, garnering the first
ever U.S. Olympic medal in the kilometer time trial and the first U.S. medal
by a male in cycling since 1984.

The 23 year-old Hartwell won his fourth consecutive national title in the
kilometer time trial at the 1992 Olympic Track Trials and National
Championships as well as his second consecutive tandem sprint title.

Also a participant at the 1992 World Cycling Championships in Valencia, Spain,
Hartwell and his partner Marty Nothstein (Trexlertown, Pa.; T-Town Cycles)
finished eighth in the tandem sprint.

For more information on the USCF and the U.S. Cycling Team contact
Steve Penny or Woody Franklin at 719/578-4581.
From: jbrandt@hplred.HPL.HP.COM (Jobst Brandt)
Date: Tue, 15 Dec 1992 02:12:29 GMT
Subject: Re: Cold Weather hydration (was: Re: Frozen water bottles)
Organization: Hewlett-Packard Laboratories, Palo Alto, CA
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.racing

John Reid writes:

> You sweat for cooling only. Even in cold weather you still get
> very hot.  When I lived in Europe I frequently went riding in very
> cold weather, but still came home with sleeves rolled up and
> zippers undone because I had get very warm as a result of the
> exercise I had taken.

> Your body does have a mechanism for removing substances it
> recognizes as toxic or unwanted - your kidneys.

> >Roger (marquis@netcom.com)
> --
> John Reid                                   ACSnet :
> johnr@bohra.cpg.oz.au

I'm not sure who is writing what here John.  Why are there so many
sig's under this message and what do you mean by including them.

In any event, the body don't use nearly the amount of water in cold
weather and that is because your lungs and extremities are cooled.
The lungs in particular are good heat dissipaters because they don't
constrict blood flow when exposed to cold air (as other extremities
do).  Just as a casual data point, we went on a ride over the coast
range and back for a 75 mile ride and ~5000 feet of climbing on
Sunday and surprise, my friends drank about a half a bottle and I
didn't drink anything all day even though I ate a candy bar at half
distance.  I was not all dried up but it was crisp out at 30-40 deg
depending on where in the forest or hill we were.  When it gets down
to a half bottle it's about like no bottle and I don't believe a
half pint can make the difference when bicycling at these distances.

Ride bike and let your bottle freeze!

jobst_brandt@hplabs.hp.com
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.racing