HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: mimir@milton.u.washington.edu (Al Billings)
Subject: Re: info wanted on runes
Organization: The Friends of Loki Society
Date: Sat, 22 Aug 1992 05:39:26 GMT

In article <1992Aug21.065332.2887@monu6.cc.monash.edu.au> mongoose@yoyo.cc.monash.edu.au (Conrad Leviston) writes:
>	Any decent copy of The Hobbit by J.R.R. Tolkien will have Anglo-Saxon
>Runes in it. There are also Ogams, seen below, but these aren't
>particularly pleasing aesthetically.

 The Ogham are Celtic, not Anglo-Saxon. The Anglo-Saxons originally used
the Elder Futhark, which was later expanded.

>The letters are each supposed to touch the middle line, and the /'s are
>supposed to be single slashes though the middle line. These runes are
>fabled to have been invented by Ogma, the god of literature, and one of
>the Tuatha De Danaan.

 who also happens to be a Celtic deity, not an Anglo, a Saxon, or any
combination of the two.

Wasssail,
Grendel

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
| Al Billings - Anthropology Undergrad - Admin for the Troth-l Mailing List | 
| SysOp of The Sacred Grove BBS (206)634-1980 -=- mimir@u.washington.edu    |
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From: ailsa%ailanth.uucp@wang.com (Ailsa N.T. Murphy)
Newsgroups: alt.pagan
Subject: Re: New Thread: Pagan Fiction
Date: Sat, 15 Aug 92 02:17:08 EST
Organization: Ailanthus Project

n9140397@henson.cc.wwu.edu (Michael J. Hamilton) writes:

> A classic, which maybe isn't quite "pagan", but
> definately a must read for anyone in that sort of
> a belief direction:  Robert Heinlin's (sp?)
> _Stranger_in_a_Strange_Land_.  It's been recently
> rereleased with some extra material which was edited
> back when it was first released.  Like I said, it's
> definately a must-read.
>

unless, of course, you happen to be one of those "poor pathetic inverts," who
really don't feel like having the Great Michael "grok a wrongness" in us.

heinlein was a sexist homophobic unimaginitave dickhead.

                                                -ailsa

=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
     ailsa%ailanth.uucp@wang.com                   ________
        I don't need a hero                Silence \      / Action
        I don't need a soldier                =     \    /    =
        I did when i was younger            Death    \  /    Life
        But now i'm so much older.                    \/
From: cortese@skid.ps.uci.edu (Janis Maria Cortese)
Newsgroups: alt.pagan
Subject: Re: Chocolate (was Re: "gangway, folx")
Date: 18 Aug 92 19:00:30 GMT
Organization: University of California, Irvine

In article <aiVoPB2w164w@ailanth.UUCP> ailsa%ailanth.uucp@wang.com (Ailsa N.T. Murphy) writes:
>darsie@eecs.ucdavis.edu (Richard Darsie) writes:
>
>> How'd you know my eyes were blue??  Oh *I* get it, it's still
>> part of the placation. *Ahem*, Shannon Elizabeth, what *nice*
>> blue eyes you have!!
>>
>> > BG3 HAS SPOKEN.
>>
>> WHEW! She sure has!!
>
>interestingly enough, i have nice blue eyes too...  now, what color are janis'?

Everything BUT blue.  I guess you'd call `em hazel.  They're sort of a
light brown, with gold bits in them (lots of that), grey rims, and look
green in certain weather, though not nearly green enough for me.

Basically think of the one color of eyes that has never before been seen
by the OTHER eyes of humanity.  That's it!

Blessings,
Janis
From: cortese@skid.ps.uci.edu (Janis Maria Cortese)
Subject: Re: New Thread: Pagan Fiction
Newsgroups: alt.pagan
Organization: University of California, Irvine
Date: 17 Aug 92 03:45:12 GMT

In article <1992Aug15.054857.6328@peponi.wcc.govt.nz> hobbs_a@kosmos.wcc.govt.nz writes:
>In article <1992Aug15.025816.2729@ulowell.ulowell.edu>, aardvark@dragon (Pam Williams) writes:

[something I deleted]

>    ...I was thinking of mentioning Tolkien here, but I decided against it. :-)
>
>anthony (the Bard)
>
>p.s. HI JANIS!!!!!!! [waves]

HI ANTHONY!!!!  WHY ARE YOU WAVING AT ME!!!!!

Blessings, hon
Janis the Bemused

Newsgroups: alt.pagan
From: n9140397@henson.cc.wwu.edu (Michael J. Hamilton)
Subject: Re: New Thread: Pagan Fiction
Followup-To: New Thread: Pagan Music
Summary: Other music; Heinlein rebuttal (brief)
Keywords: Music, Pagan
Organization: Western Washington University
Date: Mon, 17 Aug 1992 19:53:56 GMT

In article <1992Aug15.200804.22678@lmt.mn.org> ciaran@county.lmt.mn.org (Ciaran Benson) writes:
>
>  Let's add another thread too -- Pagan Music !!!
>
  I was just thinking that last night myself...

  I was told "She Moves in Mysterious Ways" by
U2 had pagan overtones to it, but haven't had a chance
to listen really closely since.

  Indigo Girls have a good one out on Reincarnation-
"Galeleo".  Plus they're just good music, anyway.

>
>Also, a big vote for The Pretender's "Hymm to Her.
>
Definately.  One of my favorites.


Also, a _brief_ rebuttal to the flames I received 
about Heinlein's "Stranger in a Strange Land".  I
admit that some of it tends to be chevanistic and
yes, he does seem to overplay the sex thing,  but,
look past that, and the book really says some 
vary interesting things about culture today.  
Which is amazing enough in itself, considering it
was written 30 years ago.

Also, the political satire is great.  My opinion.
Thanks for yours.

Dymen.


Newsgroups: alt.pagan
From: ba@mrcnext.cso.uiuc.edu (B.A. Davis-Howe)
Subject: Re: I have returned...
Organization: University of Illinois at Urbana
Date: Wed, 19 Aug 1992 15:25:51 GMT

amanda@INTERCON.COM (Amanda Walker) writes:

>I'm back.  At least, if you can read this, I'm back :)...


>Amanda Walker
>amanda@intercon.com

Applause!!!  Yea!  *HUG*

Amanda's back, and she's gonna cause trouble... :-)

              Merry meet, merry part, merry meet again,
                               Br'anArthur

Queer, Peculiar, and Wyrd! :-)
Newsgroups: alt.pagan
From: pciszek@nyx.cs.du.edu (Paul Ciszek)
Subject: Re: Hitler as Occultist (was: Re: Numbers)
Organization: University of Denver, Dept. of Math & Comp. Sci.
Date: Fri, 14 Aug 92 06:17:08 GMT

ciaran@county.lmt.mn.org (Ciaran Benson) writes:

>  Please set me straight.

All right.  This whole thing got started when someone described a pagan
event at which a comparison between witch burning and the holocaust was
used to manipulate people's emotions, get them to hate the appropriate 
folks and so on.  The original poster felt used by the practice.
I cited Hitler and Stalin to show that the Catholic Church is not the
biggest threat around.  Janis tried to lump Hitler in with the Catholics, and
the rest is history.  My point is this:  pagans are just as likely as anyone
else to try to find a convenient enemy to be responsible for their problems.
Find an example of an Inquisitor burning a witch within living memory and
I'll help you try to throw the bloke in jail.
--
Paul Ciszek, pciszek@nyx.cs.du.edu | No nation was ever drunk when wine was
                                   | cheap.   -- Thomas Jefferson
From: mimir@milton.u.washington.edu (Al Billings)
Newsgroups: alt.pagan
Subject: Re: New Thread: Pagan Fiction
Date: 16 Aug 92 03:46:55 GMT
Organization: The Friends of Loki Society

In article <0aBJPB1w164w@ailanth.UUCP> ailsa%ailanth.uucp@wang.com (Ailsa N.T. Murphy) writes:
>
>unless, of course, you happen to be one of those "poor pathetic inverts," who
>really don't feel like having the Great Michael "grok a wrongness" in us.
>
>heinlein was a sexist homophobic unimaginitave dickhead.

 The poor, poor man. He is *so* horrible! I think he did pretty well
considering when he grew up and his background and when the book was
written but I'm a man so what do I know?

Wassail,
Grendel

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| Al Billings - Anthropology Undergrad - Admin for the Troth-l Mailing List | 
| SysOp of The Sacred Grove BBS (206)634-1980 -=- mimir@u.washington.edu    |
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Newsgroups: alt.pagan
From: aardvark@dragon (Pam Williams)
Subject: Re: Movie list available & Robin Hood showing again in S.F. Bay Area
Organization: University of Lowell Computer Science, Lowell MA
Date: Sat, 15 Aug 1992 01:53:00 GMT

Actually, if people are interested in movies with Pagan/Magical themes, one of
the best (and sadly disappearing) sources is Walter von Bosau's series, "Con-
jure Cinema" which has been appearing in the last several issues of "Harvest" a
Pagan journal that is published in the Boston area. Walter really knows his
movies, from the sublime to the ridiculous, and the column is well worth reading

As it stands, "Harvest" is ceasing publication with the next issue (Fall '93)
and will be "replaced" by a new and somewhat different publication called
"Tides." I do not know whether "Conjure Cinema" will continue to appear in
"Tides," but I certainly hope so. Many of the people who will be involved in
producing "Tides" are long-time staff members and contributors to "Harvest"
so it seems likely that "Conjure Cinema" will continue to appear.

**Just a few thoughts from P.S. Williams: a person who is still struggling with
a computer with a testy comma key and a text editor with a truly arcane word
wrap feature (assuming it has one at all!). )***
-- 
Pamela S. Williams                         85 Gershom Ave. #3
a.k.a. Wonder Aardvark                     Lowell, Ma 01854
aardvark@dragon.cpe.ulowell.edu            (508)453-1753
WWIVNet: St. Zolfo the Redeemed for Valuable Cash Prizes (64@5806)
From: IO81409@MAINE.MAINE.EDU (Ailsa N.T. Murphy)
Newsgroups: alt.pagan
Subject: Re: Need help/advice on designing my Tarot deck.
Date: 19 Aug 92 15:47:43 GMT
Organization: University of Maine System

one argument with the ten to one progression theory: in the standard
decks, the nine of pentacles is a beautiful woman with a bird
on her wrist in a beautiful garden, enjoying quiet prosperity and
happiness, and the ten is a family happily esconsed in the family home.
the nine of rods is a toung man carrying more rods than he can handle,
amd the ten of rods is, um, a party scene, isn't it?  (i'm doing this
from memory.)  the nine of cups is the merchant sitting with nine
cups behind him and is generally referred to as the wishing card, and
ten of cups is another happy family scene, as i recall.  and we all
know wht the nine and ten of swords are.  so NONE of these has the
"young couple ignoring a wise old man" in it!

i've always seen the cards as a progression myself.  i've heard the
correspondences quoted as swords - military, cups - church, rods -
peasants, pentacles - merchants.  always seems to make the most
sense to me of any of teh correspondences i've heard...

                                             -ailsa
Newsgroups: alt.pagan
From: hobbs_a@kosmos.wcc.govt.nz (Anthony 'the Bard' Hobbs)
Subject: HI AGAIN JANIS!!!!!
Reply-To: hobbs_a@kosmos.wcc.govt.nz
Organization: Wellington City Council, Wgtn, NZ
Date: Sat, 22 Aug 1992 03:19:47 GMT

In article <2A8F20C8.25425@orion.oac.uci.edu>, cortese@skid.ps.uci.edu (Janis Maria Cortese) writes:

>HI ANTHONY!!!!  WHY ARE YOU WAVING AT ME!!!!!
>
>Blessings, hon
>Janis the Bemused

Why? WHY??? Who says I need a reason? :-)

Blessings and hugz,
anthony the mischievious

p.s. Salutations and sacrifices to all the other net.goddesses, especially Our
Lady Amanda - welcome back!
--
Anthony Hobbs             the Bard                hobbs_a@kosmos.wcc.govt.nz    
OverPope, First Holy and Unreformed Church of Frozen Yoghurt - romantic poet - 
synth player extraordinaire - kate bush is goddess - hail Eris - praise "Bob"!
DISCLAIMER: I am not Romanian and was not head of the Securitate for 15 years.
Newsgroups: alt.pagan
Subject: Re: Numbers
From: canders@isr.harvard.edu (Carl E. Anderson)
Date: Wed, 12 Aug 92 19:57:32 GMT
Organization: Harvard University, Cambridge, MA

In article <bstszm.c91@wang.com> smayo@wang.com (Scott Mayo) writes:
>He may have been a bad pagan; I don't know. I've read references, probably
>in this newsgroup, that he took Odinism seriously, but I can't imagine
>other Odinists felt comfortable with that. He was no kind of Christian at
>all.

	I have a friend who did some research on the occult background of
the Nazi party.  As I'm sure you know the occult revival thing was in full
swing shortly before the Nazis came to power in Germany, and there were
various neo-pagan and occult groups running around just as there are today.
Hitler found one that seemed to suit his purposes for the Nazi party-line
and killed most everyone in the others.  It did not particularly matter
whether the were "good Germans" or Teutonists or what you call "Odinists"
or whatever.  Hitler understood the importance of central ideology very
well.  However he did not understand that the mainstream was only going to
go for so much of this occult shit as they had all been good Christians for
centuries.  So Hitler dumped most of his more outrageous occult trappings,
and the Wehrmacht marched off to war with "Gott mit uns" stamped on their
belt buckles just as they always had.

	Hitler was not nearly so interested in religion as he was in
*control*.  Luckily he wasn't very stable mentally and so eventually
screwed himself up.

Cheers,
Carl

---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Carl Edlund Anderson	            	"Hefi ek ok aldri sva reitt vapn
canders@isr.harvard.edu			at manni at eigi hafi vidh kommit."
OR
anderso2@husc.harvard.edu			- Skarphedhinn Njalsson 
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: ciaran@county.lmt.mn.org (Ciaran Benson)
Newsgroups: alt.pagan,alt.beer,rec.crafts.brewing,alt.buddha.short.fat.guy
Subject: re:That damned survey
Date: 20 Aug 92 14:43:06 GMT
Reply-To: ciaran@county.lmt.mn.org (Ciaran Benson)
Organization: LaserMaster Technologies, Minneapolis, MN


  Sorry, Janis, I agree that this needs to be nipped in the
kidneys, but _THIS_ I couldn't resist.  Note the heavily altered
newsgroups.

Some folks without a clue asked;

>>If you were to die today and God asked you, "Why should I let 
>>you into my heaven?" What would you say?

To which Carl Edlund Anderson eloquently responds;

>This is clearly one of those Zen questions.  The correct answer 
>is, "Would you like a BEER?"

  Carl, dood -- you're enlightened !!

  Pass GO, collect $200, and blast off to adventure in today's
turgid episode.

  Must be time for a homebrew ... Ciaran.

  $uslinit; include oblig.sig <<
  "...And here, Queen Aphrodite, pour heavenly nectar into gold
   cups, and fill them gracefully with sudden joy."  -- Sappho >>
Newsgroups: alt.pagan
From: ciaran@county.lmt.mn.org (Ciaran Benson)
Subject: Re: That Virgin Mary really gets around
Reply-To: ciaran@county.lmt.mn.org (Ciaran Benson)
Organization: LaserMaster Technologies, Minneapolis, MN
Date: Sat, 15 Aug 92 19:03:35 GMT

Murray sez;

>"...Pretty silly to you?  It sounds pretty silly to me, especially
>if I'd paid good money to be there..."

  I gave a talke (terminal 'e' to piss 'em off) to a Unitarian
Universalist temple in my town, and yacked for two hours in
front of a bunch of _MAJOR_ intellectualists.  I knew they'd
nail me the second I opened my mouth if I went for a 
intellectual or technical or scientific explaination of my
religion, so I started like this;

  "I'm sure you're all wondering what most people wonder when
they first encounter a Pagan.  So, what's it like to worship
trees?  How does that help me get through the work day?  Where
do we get off saying that I get sacred inspiration from
dancing through the woods nakid with a pint of Jack Daniel's
grasped firmly in one hand and a boquet of flowers in the other?

  "The standard answer to such questions, I'm sure you'll agree,
can only be that it's a major hoot and I'd probably be looking
for such outlets even if I didn't have religious feelings about
it.

  "That aside, please sit back and relax and I'll try to
describe for you what it's like to be a member of America's
fastest growing twinky religion."

  Accurately reflect my opinions ??  Well, ok, only about 90%
worth.  But still, nobody expected me to be quoting scriptures
or philosophies after that start, and we could spend the time
experiencing each other's interaction with the world -- defined
as divine by some of us and not by others, and talking about
how that difference in perception effected our experiences.

  My Paganism a silly religion ???  It had damned well better
be, there's too much reverence and not enough sacredness
otherwise !!!

  A major part of the Elusian mysteries was _ALWAYS_ the
washing of the pig, where the initiate-to-be would run down
to the sea and wash their sacrificial pig, with barbarians (non-
Greek speakers) standing on the shore shouting "encouragements".
Sounds to me like _MY_ kind of religious attitude and experience.

  Blessed be, Ciaran.
From: blchapma@eos.ncsu.edu (BEKKI LYN)
Newsgroups: alt.pagan
Subject: Re: Pagan music
Date: 19 Aug 92 16:36:42 GMT
Reply-To: blchapma@eos.ncsu.edu (BEKKI LYN)
Organization: North Carolina State University, Project Eos
Originator: blchapma@c00019-118dan.eos.ncsu.edu


I have to bring up my own old standby for this topic:

Anything by Fates Warning. 

Particularly (IMO) their "Awaken the Guardian" cd/album/tape, etc.
(I never know what to call it anymore)

I don't know what their religion/s is(are), but I get this strong
feeling of pagan exhiliration from their music.

Personally, I feel that "pagan music" is many things to many different
people.  In fact, most any music can be "pagan" in some sense.  One
of my definitions is that to be pagan, music will oftentimes bring one
a strong sense of inner power and strength.

The Fates Warning songs tend to work with my own inner rythyms so much
that I feel driven into a joyful frenzy every time I hear them.


Bekki Lyn

************************************************************
"All's well at the midnight hour; you're ready to fly
 Don't think about the darkness, or the rumbling in the sky.
 Somewhere on the morning road just waiting for you
 Some things that just could never be are calling up a
   spell so you can see..
 Dream Evil, the dark that you find in the back of your mind
 Dream Evil Dream Evil -- DIO --
************************************************************
 
-- 

Bekki Lyn

************************************************************
"All's well at the midnight hour; you're ready to fly
 Don't think about the darkness, or the rumbling in the sky.
 Somewhere on the morning road just waiting for you
 Some things that just could never be are calling up a
   spell so you can see..
 Dream Evil, the dark that you find in the back of your mind
 Dream Evil Dream Evil -- DIO --
************************************************************
From: lilleyc@cs.man.ac.uk (Chris Lilley)
Newsgroups: alt.pagan
Subject: Re: jet
Date: 12 Aug 92 22:53:00 GMT
Reply-To: lilleyc@cs.man.ac.uk (Chris Lilley)
Organization: Department of Computer Science, University of Manchester UK

In article <CMM.0.88.713559996.fannin@pons.cis.ohio-state.edu> fannin@news.cis.ohio-state.edu (elizabeth a fannin) writes:

>if you want to find out about jet, i suggest contacting your local bead
>society or beadwork fanatic!  what scraps i know about jet i have picked up
>from experts in beadwork, since jet was very popular for such.

Jet is a fossil, like coal, oil, and amber. The best jet comes from
Whitby, a small coastal town on the edge of the North Yorkshire Moors.
The cliffs contain lots of it (and also ammonites and belemites)

So the link between amber and jet is that they were both, once, alive.

I have seen many Wiccan HPSs wear a necklace of amber and jet beads,
alternating. Particularly Alexandrian Wiccans. I have heard that this
usage dates only to the 50s revival, but some people have necklaces
handed down from before that.

Amber beads were found in the Neolithic stone village of Skara Brae on
Orkney. I don't think they found jet there.

A large and ornate jet necklace was found dating to (errm, struggles)
Late Bronze Age/Early Iron Age (phew) which has a large crescent (oh,
5 or 6 inches across) and smaller cylindrical and spherical beads on
several interconnected strands. It is a similar shape to gold crescent
necklaces found further south. This one is on display in Hamilton
museum (I think). If this is wrong I will post a correction once I
have checked back home.

>what i know about it is: it's shiny, black, a stone, and lighter than glass.
>this is what made it popular.  there is lots of victorian black intricate
>beadwork that people may tell you is "jet," but it is probably black
>(jet-colored) glass.  real jet was used more rarely, and, i get the
>impression, only initially when the black beadwork came into fashion.

Jet came suddenly and massively into fashion when Queen Victoria
instituted the victorian death cult ;-) when Albert died.

Old jet jewelry should be thoroughly cleansed, because it may have
been used in mourning and absorbed all kind of obsessive, negative
vibes. Some people avoid it entirely for that reason.

There are a couple of craftpeople in Whitby working jet jewelry still.

>there is some test for it that i can't remember. (to differentiate it from
>glass, that is.)

Burning, and sniffing. Probably a streak test, too.

Hope this was of interest.

--
Chris Lilley
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Technical Author, ITTI Computer Graphics and Visualisation Training Project
Computer Graphics Unit, Manchester Computing Centre, Manchester, UK
Internet:   lilley@cgu.mcc.ac.uk        Janet:   lilley@uk.ac.mcc.cgu
Voice:      +44 (0)61 275 6095          Fax:     +44 (0)61 275 6040
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Newsgroups: alt.pagan
Subject: Re: gift to the sea
From: Rick Jansen <SSCPRICK@HASARA11.BITNET>
Date: Tuesday, 18 Aug 1992 12:48:36 CET
Organization: SARA - Stichting Academisch Rekencentrum Amsterdam

There's a lot of talk about this silly project going on
in nlnet.misc and in the press in The Netherlands.
Some people think its a cute idea, some people (myself
included) thinks its not ethical. There is no such thing
as feeding bread to sea-fishes anyway.
 
-Rick.
--------------- cut here ----- here ------- or here -----------
Rick Jansen                  | e-mail: Rick@SARA.NL
SARA System Support Dept.    |         SSCPRICK@HASARA11.Bitnet
 
  Space is a) something containing nothing
           b) nothing containing everything
  from A Scientific Encyclopaedia For The Enquiring Young Nome
  by Angalo de Haberdasheri
From: canders@isr.harvard.edu (Carl E. Anderson)
Newsgroups: alt.pagan
Subject: Re: Pagan music (was Re: New Thread: Pagan Fiction)
Date: 18 Aug 92 16:47:56 GMT
Organization: Harvard University, Cambridge, MA

In article <2A904741.27799@orion.oac.uci.edu> cortese@skid.ps.uci.edu (Janis Maria Cortese) writes:
>Okay, let's get a little balmy, too.  Some of us like the feel of sun
>on our skin and Medi sand between our toes!

	Fair enough :) I remember a Classics major friend of mine who got a
tape of Ancient Greek music.  Apparently there are some transcripts of
ancient Greek tunes is mss.  and somebody arranged them for ancient Greek
instruments and recorded it.  I haven't heard this myself, but apparently
it does exist.                

Cheers,
Carl

---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Carl Edlund Anderson	            	"Hefi ek ok aldri sva reitt vapn
canders@isr.harvard.edu			at manni at eigi hafi vidh kommit."
OR
anderso2@husc.harvard.edu			- Skarphedhinn Njalsson 
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