HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: lumensa@lub001.lamar.edu
Newsgroups: misc.rural
Subject: Re: Dragging Logs
Date: 1 Jan 93 21:56:31 +1700
Organization: Lamar University - Beaumont

In article <1992Dec28.203756.2596@nntp.nta.no>, BARANSKI@veamf1.nusc.navy.mil (Jim Baranski) writes:

> What's the best method for dragging logs?  Tractor?  Horse?  Other?  What size
> tactor would I need to drag logs?  I don't currently have a tractor, and I
> don't really want to spend a lot of money for a huge tractor, but if I can drag


I've skidded before with a Ford 2000-- doesn't take much *horsepower* so
much as it does a good strong 3-point hitch, a good set of logging
hooks, and good tires/traction.  Someone mentioned tearing up the land
with big tractors-- if you don't have enough lift on your hitch to get
the weight off the forward end of the log, you won't go anywhere *or*
you'll require a LOT of horsepower and traction to plow your rut.  You
can take a good set of hooks and a clevis (don't use a shackle) on your
lift bar and back over the small end of a big log, drop your lift and
hook the log and go without ever dismounting when you get good.  I
pulled logs 30-50 feet long and up to 28" but diameter with the 2000,
but not in mud and not on ground rough enough that when your back end
goes down, you don't have enough lift left to keep your butt out of the
dirt.  

I used mules too.  But I doubt that you'd find any handy.  I haven't
seen a good logging team in this part of East Texas since log skidders
became common 20 years ago.

The cart mentioned in one of the postings above is your best bet if
you're insistent on using the pickup.  If you try to haul logs with a
pickup, you'll destroy it.  You can pull them short distances on even
ground with a well balanced trailer without too much damage, but on
rough ground, forget the pickup.  Fashion the cart from drillstem in a
U-shape with a wheel on both ends and a long lever on the top.  Back it
over the but of your log and fix the hooks or chain low; use the lever
to raise the weight of the log up and then you can easily pull a log
with a pickup.  But be careful on rough ground.


Newsgroups: misc.rural
From: jefftb@sr.hp.com (Jeff Brown)
Subject: Re: Wood Heating
Date: Mon, 21 Dec 1992 23:38:18 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: HP Sonoma County (SRSD/MWTD/MID)
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1.9 PL6]


  I have a cold air return near my stove that is for the forced air furnace.
  It only really works after the furnace runs. I think because the air is maybe
  only 80 deg that there is too much loss in heating the ducting. If you had 
  a real high cieling in the room with the stove the air at the top would 
  be much hotter and that might work better. Mine is also set up with a thermost  at in the return to automaticlly turn on the fan. 
  I have seen a fireplace like insert for new constrution that utilizies duct-
  ing to move the hot air through the housse. The key to this seems to be 
  that instead of moving the warm air it pulls cold air from the oppisite
  side of the house and blows out hot air this creates a flow to evenly heat
  the house. I think it also assumes a somewhat open floor plan and an air
  tight new construction house. I think it was called "country' something.

  Good luck
  Jeff Brown
Newsgroups: misc.rural
From: hubcap@hubcap.clemson.edu (System Janitor)
Subject: Re: concerns with well water and a septic tank
Organization: Clemson University
Distribution: usa
Date: Wed, 30 Dec 1992 17:00:56 GMT

aad@siemens.com (Anthony Datri) writes:

>>Gas stoves are far more environmentally friendly than almost anything else.

>Yep -- that's one reason why I wouldn't even consider a damned electric
>one.  

???

Around here all the power on the grid is nuke or hydro. No pollution 
released into the environment at all. I realize that this is not true
in many places.

-Mike
Newsgroups: misc.rural
From: pecampbe@mtu.edu (Paul Campbell)
Subject: Re: concerns with well water and a septic tank
Organization: Michigan Technological University
Distribution: usa
Date: Thu, 31 Dec 1992 08:05:08 GMT

In article <1992Dec30.213328.3073@siemens.com> aad@siemens.com (Anthony Datri) writes:
>
>Where "here" is is impossible to know since your Organization header doesn't
>include anything useful.
>
>> all the power on the grid is nuke or hydro. No pollution 
>>released into the environment at all. I realize that this is not true
>>in many places.
>

Hmm..sounds like upstate New York, where they are making a real mess out of
Quebec province I believe (can't remember exactly which one) by totally
messing up the streams and the local wild life..whether or not this is
environmental damage depends on how you feel about it..most Canadians in
the area are not too happy. Not sure if it's just because they aren't
sharing in the wealth or if there's a real problem going on.

Second thing to consider: nuclear plants have to run either full bore
or idle to be economical. Power companies handle them like a switch..
either on or off.

>Exactly.  Burning fossil fuels and getting out electricity is inefficient, and
>you lose more in transmission, and resistive heating is inefficient too.

About 50-80% of the power produced is lost in transmission line losses.

If you REALLY want to be economical about it, build yourself either your
own wind mill or solar system, or both. After all, there aren't too many
reports of complaints because of reduced radiant heat due to people sucking
up all the solar energy hitting the ground or degradation of air currents
because of too much wind usage.

Hydroelecric dams used to be thought to fall in this category, too, but
lately, at least in Michigan, it sounds like they cause more damage
(being essentially a block to fish migration and destroying both the
original fast-running pools and the land underneath the lake behind the
dam) than previously thought and they've begun to fall out of favor.
It may be more of the ravings of ecolunatics who have no idea what
they're talking about, though (example: CFC's).
From: bj368@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Mike E. Romano)
Newsgroups: misc.rural
Subject: Re: Wood Heating
Date: 29 Dec 1992 09:52:18 GMT
Organization: Case Western Reserve University, Cleveland, Ohio (USA)
NNTP-Posting-Host: hela.ins.cwru.edu



For the homeowner who wants to or has to do his own repairs,
piped water heating is going to be a challenge.
Especially when pipes running through walls develop leaks, etc.
More sensible planning for a wood/coal and oil combo furnace
is to have all piping located in the basement with channeling
to provide concentrated access by floor vents to upper
floor levels.
Thus no piping need be installed in living areas.
There are other sensible solutions but I think this one is
preferable.
Wood furnaces still have a ways to go in design to burn
even longer and even temperatures with a variety of wood
types, and with minimum smoke as well.
For those who would rather not stoke in a basement situation,
an even better plan is to build a masonry firehouse some
yards away from house, lay pipes deep enough and insulated
to prevent freezing, pipes enter basement or crawlspace
and heat is accessed again through floor vents, thus
eliminating the need for pipes in living area.


-- 
Capt. Kirk: let's head for that planet, third from the sun, it
            looks promising.... |-)
Newsgroups: misc.rural
From: hubcap@hubcap.clemson.edu (System Janitor)
Subject: Re: Tow chains or slings?
Organization: Clemson University
Date: Tue, 29 Dec 1992 14:55:24 GMT

amirza@bronze.ucs.indiana.edu (Anmar Caves) writes:

>Ok, I'll discuss it.  Taking a vehicle off-road is bad enough, but
>then cutting limbs to but under the wheels is a bit more destructive
>than I care to be. 

Oops! Oh no! Political Correctness has filtered into this informative
thread. Oh well, I guess most of the important points have been covered.
And I need to go dig some pits in the swamp to dump some barrels of toxic
waste into anyway...

-Mike
From: dabay@morse.cns.vt.edu (Marian Dabay)
Newsgroups: misc.rural
Subject: Re: Leads in Kentucky?
Date: 30 Dec 92 12:54:10 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: Virginia Tech, Blacksburg, VA

In article <1992Dec23.150248.29352@cbnewsl.cb.att.com> spf@cbnewsl.cb.att.com (Steve Frysinger of Blue Feather Farm) writes:

>A friend of mine wants to leave the NY/NJ metropolitan area and get off the
>corporate merry-go-round.  She is considering moving to KY -- not too far
>from her East coast roots, but far enough south to what she thinks might be
>an easier pace of life.

Steve,

If your friend is really interested in working in the horse industry
in Kentucky, you might try posting your message to rec.equestrian.
There are a lot of knowledgeable people there who may have connections
in the Kentucky area.  

Marian Dabay



Date: Thu, 24 Dec 1992 01:01:43 -0500
From: cosell@world.std.com (Bernie Cosell)
Reply-To: cosell@world.std.com
From: tanskane@cc.lut.fi (Janne Tanskanen)
Subject: Exp. cooking
Date: Tue, 29 Dec 1992 15:04:52 GMT
Organization: Lappeenranta University of Technology, Finland

An empty cardboard egg package (one cup), filled with heated candle liquid 
(let it coolen first, of course) will burn 1-5 minutes with 10-20 cm flames
and doesn't care of med. wind. This is great when you have to ignite camp fire.
But have anyone tried to cook directly with the device (described above)?
Experiments and opinions needed.
-- 
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address: Janne Tanskanen, Penikuja 5, I      email: tanskane.lut.fi
    20660 LITTOINEN, FINLAND          I   "Hailing frequencies closed, sir"
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: billf@hpcvra.cv.hp.com (Bill Faus)
Date: Tue, 29 Dec 1992 17:02:26 GMT
Subject: Re: Wood Heating
Organization: Hewlett-Packard Co., Corvallis, OR, USA
Newsgroups: misc.rural

> 4)  Baseboards play hell if you put antique furniture anywhere near them, 
> because they cause uneven heating and drying, with consequent splitting, 
> warping, etc... Made it even harder to place their furniture!

This is something to consider when installing a wood stove too.

It's rather frightening to see the oak floors in our house
shrink and swell with the seasonal use of our woodstove.

A piano in the room is simply out of the question.

-bill
From: agnew@gems.vcu.edu
Newsgroups: misc.rural
Subject: Re: Wood Heating
Date: 29 Dec 92 11:08:33 -0400
Distribution: na
Organization: Medical College of Virginia

In article <92Dec28.203530edt.608@smoke.cs.toronto.edu>, enenkel@cs.toronto.edu (Robert Frederick Enenkel) writes:
> tip@lead.aichem.arizona.edu (Tom Perigrin) writes:
>>
>>3) The baseboards got in the way of EVERYTHING!   You can't put bookshelves,
>>dressers, chests of drawers, etc..., against the walls with baseboard heaters.
>>In New Mexico you need a lot of linear feet of baseboard heater, so they had
>>trouble finding places to put their furniture in a 3000 sq ft house!!!!
>>
>>4)  Baseboards play hell if you put antique furniture anywhere near them, 
>>because they cause uneven heating and drying, with consequent splitting, 
>>warping, etc... Made it even harder to place their furniture!
> 
> Sounds to me like they have too much furniture! :-)     Robert Enenkel

Well, I just came back from visting some friends of my wife's, and they had
a Carolina Water Stove.  a 500 gal tank of water wrapped all around a wood
heater, and that is tied into their central air by a second "A" coil,
thereby bypassing the normal heat.  the thermostat for normal heat is set
10 degrees lower than the wood heater, and so it does not come on til the
wood cools out..  it's also potable water, supplying the water heater too.

quite a simple system.  and saves them 70 bucks a month...

jim agnew

         /^^^\   \ /   Jim Agnew         | AGNEW@RUBY.VCU.EDU  (Internet)
        /      >  ||   Neurosurgery,     | AGNEW@VCUVAX        (Bitnet)
   /\_/     '   \  /   MCV-VCU           | This disc will self destruct in
 /________________>    Richmond, VA, USA | five seconds.  Good luck, Jim..."
From: f_speerjr@ccsvax.sfasu.edu
Newsgroups: misc.rural
Subject: Fencing goats
Date: 21 Dec 92 09:54:32 CST
Organization: Stephen F. Austin State University

Subject: Fencing goats

	I have about three acres of pine trees in East Texas, adjacent
to my house. Would like to run some "brush goats" to clear out
the underbrush and just because I like goats. However, conventional
fencing would be very hard to run through these woods.
	What about electric fence? Does it work well with goats?
Could I erect it by attaching it to trees? Will appreciate any help.
        Thanks.
        Jim Speer
From: speed@mala.bc.ca
Newsgroups: misc.rural
Subject: Re: Dragging Logs
Date: 31 Dec 92 08:40:08 -0700
Organization: Malaspina College

In article <1992Dec28.203756.2596@nntp.nta.no>, BARANSKI@veamf1.nusc.navy.mil (Jim Baranski) writes:
> I have 15 acres of hilly woods which needs to be thinned out.  I have about a
> semi of 1-2 ft diameter red oak, hemlock and beech which I would like to cut
> down, and cut into beams and boards and use for various projects.
> 
> My questions are basically, what's the best way to get the logs out of the
> woods.  There are several overgrown barways and tracks in various places, but
> because of the hilly terrain, it's going to be difficult to get in and out.
> 
> Basically I figure that I'm going to have to drag the logs at least a 100
> yards, and maybe 1000 feet before I can get it to a place where I can get a
> truck or a trailer.
> 
> What's the best method for dragging logs?  Tractor?  Horse?  Other?  What size
> tactor would I need to drag logs?  I don't currently have a tractor, and I
> don't really want to spend a lot of money for a huge tractor, but if I can drag
> the logs with a small tractor, it might be worth it.  How much HP would I need?
> Would a 'garden' 20 HP tractor do it?
> 
-- 

My father has 5 - acres fully tree on the side of a mountain.
With his 18 horsepower Bolens Tractor we pull 20 - 30 foot sections
of 1-2 foot diameter trees up his slope with no problem.

With a winch mounted at the back of the tractor, lift the near end of the 
log about a foot off the ground, then also secure it with a rope or chain
to lower part of the tractor. This will keep the log a fixed distance from
the tractor.  If you have a decent set of knobby rear tires the log will
slide along no problem.


Good luck.



*******************************************************************************
Andrew Speed					<speed@mala.bc.ca>
Malaspina College
*******************************************************************************
From: lumensa@lub001.lamar.edu
Newsgroups: misc.rural
Subject: <None>
Date: 1 Jan 93 21:26:03 +1700
Distribution: usa
Organization: Lamar University - Beaumont

In article <1992Dec27.212129.27007@siemens.com>, aad@siemens.com (Anthony Datri) writes:
> 
> I recently moved into a place that gets water from a well, and dumps it into
> a septic tank.  What concerns should I have about using the water from the
> well?  The landlord says that it goes through a "neutralizer", but just what
> that means isn't clear.  What concerns should I have about detergents and
> such that I use that end up in the septic tank?

I would be concerned with how deep (or shallow) the water well is, how
it is cased, and what the soil perculations are there.  You didn't
mention these, but if the soil has a lot of clay in it (and thus very
low perculation) and the well is deep (100 feet or more is a shallow
well here, but I would call that deep enough with low perculation soil)
then your problem with direct contamination from YOUR septic tank should
be minimal.  If it's on the side of a hill and there are other sources
of contamination "above" you, you may have cause for concern with a
shallow well and high soil perculation.

Hope this helps.


My opinions may be used by anybody.   | Dale Parish  - Orange, Texas
My time is for sale.                  | Lamar's Token Perpetual Student
                                      | 
Newsgroups: misc.rural
From: pecampbe@mtu.edu (Paul Campbell)
Subject: Re: concerns with well water and a septic tank
Organization: Michigan Technological University
Distribution: usa
Date: Mon, 28 Dec 1992 04:55:38 GMT

In article <1992Dec27.212129.27007@siemens.com> aad@siemens.com (Anthony Datri) writes:
>
>I recently moved into a place that gets water from a well, and dumps it into
>a septic tank.  What concerns should I have about using the water from the
>well?  The landlord says that it goes through a "neutralizer", but just what
>that means isn't clear.  What concerns should I have about detergents and
>such that I use that end up in the septic tank?

A septic tank is a "solid" cement tank. It of course does leak like all
concrete does, to some extent.

The rule of thumb is to locate the well at least 50 feet away from the
septic tank.

If you're really worried, take a sample of the water and spend the $5-$10
that it costs to have it tested. Your local DNR (Department of Natural
Resources or whatever they are in your state) can tell you where to
get the little bottle and mailer to send it off. Then ask them what the
test results mean. If you ever want to see something really funny, send
in a sample of city water some time. The oxidized molecules normally
present in a chlorinated (not the ozone ones) systems are really nasty
poisons and they keep them right at the borderline level of danger.
That's a tip from one of the main chemists at the water treatment plant
here in town.
Newsgroups: misc.rural
From: enenkel@cs.toronto.edu (Robert Frederick Enenkel)
Subject: Re: Wood Heating
Organization: Department of Computer Science, University of Toronto
Distribution: na
Date: 29 Dec 92 01:39:15 GMT

tip@lead.aichem.arizona.edu (Tom Perigrin) writes:
>
>3) The baseboards got in the way of EVERYTHING!   You can't put bookshelves,
>dressers, chests of drawers, etc..., against the walls with baseboard heaters.
>In New Mexico you need a lot of linear feet of baseboard heater, so they had
>trouble finding places to put their furniture in a 3000 sq ft house!!!!
>
>4)  Baseboards play hell if you put antique furniture anywhere near them, 
>because they cause uneven heating and drying, with consequent splitting, 
>warping, etc... Made it even harder to place their furniture!

Sounds to me like they have too much furniture! :-)     Robert Enenkel
From: sjuniper@igc.apc.org (Steve Juniper)
Newsgroups: misc.rural
Subject: Straw Bales as Bldg Blocks?
Date: 30 Dec 92 05:46:00 GMT
Nf-ID: #N:cdp:1427600006:000:119
Nf-From: cdp.UUCP!sjuniper    Dec 29 21:46:00 1992


Does anyone out there have knowledge and/or experience about the use of 
lstraw bales in home construction?

Tks

John
From: tip@lead.aichem.arizona.edu (Tom Perigrin)
Newsgroups: misc.rural
Subject: Re: Wood Heating
Date: 28 Dec 92 19:38:00 GMT
Distribution: na
Organization: University of Arizona UNIX Users Group

In article <92Dec21.193843edt.1171@smoke.cs.toronto.edu> enenkel@cs.toronto.edu (Robert Frederick Enenkel) writes:

>And you can use baseboard heaters instead of cast-iron radiators if you want.

Friend of mine just ripped the baseboard hot water system out of her house,
and is installing forced air.   I haven't talked much about "why", except
she has said;

1)  The water pipes were persnikity... accidentally left the house with the
heat off in November, and a surprise deep freeze (New Mexico) broke a lot
of piping.

2) Got a leak in a pipe (remnent of the freeze?)   Had to rip out a lot of 
wall, etc.., to repair.   Unfortunately, I was visiting that New Years, and I 
got to do a lot of helping, if I wanted to share any heat.

3) The baseboards got in the way of EVERYTHING!   You can't put bookshelves,
dressers, chests of drawers, etc..., against the walls with baseboard heaters.
In New Mexico you need a lot of linear feet of baseboard heater, so they had
trouble finding places to put their furniture in a 3000 sq ft house!!!!

4)  Baseboards play hell if you put antique furniture anywhere near them, 
because they cause uneven heating and drying, with consequent splitting, 
warping, etc... Made it even harder to place their furniture!

x
From: CELIA_TONY_BECKER@cup.portal.com
Newsgroups: misc.rural
Subject: Re: Organic farming economics information
Date: Tue, 29 Dec 92 21:55:05 PST
Organization: The Portal System (TM)
Distribution: usa
  <1992Dec29.023308.20434@samba.oit.unc.edu>
  <1992Dec30.045952.19173@samba.oit.unc.edu>
  <1992Dec30.050143.19353@samba.oit.unc.edu>

Dear Molly;

Try contacting Rodale Press, the publishers of "Organic Gardening" 
magazine.  They are usually pretty up-to-date on these matters.

Also, look at articles under the headings "pesticides" and
"herbicides" in your university library.  Sometime last year
a study comparing pesticide use to organic methods in some
southern U.S. crops was noted in the "San Jose Mercury News."
The article noted the organic method was cheaper and more
successful.  However, part of the reason for this, is that
modern insects have developed immunity to either many 
pesticides, or stronger doses of them.  Good luck.

Cecilia Fabos-Becker, San Jose, CA.
Newsgroups: misc.rural
From: pecampbe@mtu.edu (Paul Campbell)
Subject: Re: concerns with well water and a septic tank
Organization: Michigan Technological University
Distribution: usa
Date: Tue, 29 Dec 1992 03:56:11 GMT

In article <1992Dec28.225315.6187@siemens.com> aad@siemens.com (Anthony Datri) writes:
>
>>A septic tank is a "solid" cement tank. It of course does leak like all
>>concrete does, to some extent.
>
>What I'm really worried about is polluting.  If this tank is supposed to be
>solid, then why doesn't it fill up very, very quickly?

The water is run through a dry well. This gets rid of the moisture and
leaves the remaining solid wastes to continue into the septic tank. For
some reason, the new thing is to use a drain field instead of a dry well.
It performs essentially the same function.

Yes, detergents, toilet paper, and anything else you put down the drain
pollutes. This is just a fact of life. Unless you can charge outrageous
fees to collect money or pay the same, you just can't economically
afford a super duper scrubber system that reduces your waste output
to clean water and a bunch of dry powder that gets shipped to a land
fill and BURIED just like metropolitan areas.

Now, in a normal situation (assuming that you don't have an unusually
high water table or some other nasty complication), the septic tank
as a sort of underground compost pile/storage tank. Sewage does leak
out into the surrounding area. Assuming that you don't regularly poor
industrial toxic waste down your drain, the surrounding dirt will
clean itself just like it has done for thousands of years.

If you're worried about detergents, then perhaps you can suggest
a nontoxic detergent or whether the guy in Japan has managed to
market his sonic clothes washer yet or something else. I know of
a certain laundry facility very near here which would be VERY happy
to know of such a thing as they're busily paying big bucks cleaning
up the area (oh, you mean running 40 washers with one drain will
actually saturate the area around the drain faster than the soil
can clean itself? Imagine that).

Detergents are a problem, but except in cases of severe problems, I
am unaware of this being a major thing to worry about. It does become
a major problem when the density of wells and septic tanks (and
houses) gets past a certain point; then a waste water and well water
treatment plant becomes necessary (in a city).

In rural areas, the #1 biggest problem that seems to pollute water is
heavy nitration done by farmers on their crops. It's another matter
of a little in moderation, too. Too much nitrate solution will
pollute the water supply, but a little in moderation is not bad.
Pesticides and herbicides are another example. Some of them stay
around a long time (example: DDT), while some leave almost no
residue behind at all (example: Roundup herbicide).

In other words, as before: as long as your well is at least 50 feet
from the septic tank/dry well/drainage field and a water test comes up
negative, don't worry about it.

Newsgroups: misc.rural