From: khan@ces.cwru.edu (Mansoor Khan)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.pakistan
Subject: Re: Good Bye Mr. Bush
Date: 6 Nov 1992 07:01:52 GMT
Organization: Computer Engineering and Science, Case Western Reserve University
Distribution: world
NNTP-Posting-Host: king.ces.cwru.edu

In response to Nadeem Jamali's letter;


>.... (stuff deleted)

>>>Dear Mansoor,
>>>I completely agree with what you have said and I would like to
>>>commend you on your excellent oration.It is indeed an unfortunate
>>>fact that Pakistani govt. has been nothing but a cruel joke for
>>>the Pakistani masses.
>>	Not only a joke, but a solid tamaanchaa on the face of
>>everyone who has any sense.
>>	I read few responses to my article. Mr. Muk-khee of
>>good ole Lahore, did not get the Joke about Jia. Okay, it should
>>be Zia. Mr. Nadeem Jamali is so full of Ta'asoob-shit just like
>>his friends Mr. Javed Iqbal[ who used to post from Turkey] and Some Rahim
>>from South Africa. These guys will assign race to elements in periodic table.
>>One Mr. Altaf Qadir of the Land Down Under got scared that it may create 
>>trouble on the net. I dont think we should get sharmindah at discussing
>>the credentials of our future President Mr. Gauhar Ayub or one of our
>>future primeminister Mr. Shahnavaz Bhutto.  Their supporters should not

>Man!!! are you for real :) I mean... do you have the reasoning devises that

	Yes, honey! I am for real. 


>normally come built-in in human beings... If you're really stressed or
>something, I'll pay you money.. buy a Lever2000 and release the tension :) :)

	Why Lever2000? I prefer ............. :-) 				
>First,
> I'm not sure what Ta'asoob-shit means... as you might have gathered,

	But, I guess you do! 

>Urdu is not my native language. Second, I must insist that Javed bhai has more
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
That is no problem , I will try to use more of Gulaabi Urdu in future.

>in common with you than with me. I don't know much about Rahim saheb. And by
>the way, were did I ever refer to any race in my posting... If you have the
>sexual organs which I would imagine most male humans possess, why don't
>you respond to my posting instead of accusing me of whatever :)

	Now that I have proved the point by responding to your posting,                 wanna give me call boy?

>BTW, Shahnawaz has been dead for quite a while... probably your simple mind
	Ok, I am sorry about this. I meant the guy who is in Damishq
	and  hoping to serve the people of Pakistan one day. 
	And by the way, what is in the name. It is  same shit, whether 
	Shahnvaz or Murtuza.

>is still processing that news.

>BTW, do you wonder why people voted for BB too... The question is.. WHO CARES
>what you wonder... specially with your rather simple brain. She was one of the
	I prefer a simple brain, than a screwed up one! 

>best educated Prime Ministers Pakistan has ever had. People elected her.. she
	Let me clear up something here.
	People in Lyari and Purana Golimar do not care two dimes about
	Benazir's degrees. This is the only place where she or her husband can
	try winning. Those places in Karachi where people do care about 
	education, she wont win because of her, and her family's,   Kartoots.
	
	Second, please do not tell us that she is best educated Primeminister
	Pakistan ever had. She was definitly more educated than leaders
	like Ayub Khan , Yoyo Khan, And Zia. But please.......
	Hasan Shaheed Sohrawardy (M.S. Oxford), Khwaja Nazimuddin (Cambridge),
	Liaquat Ali Khan( Oxford), were all atleast as educated as she is.
	They were all well reputed lawyers before they got into politics.
	And how could you forget her father who graduated from Berkeley
	and got honorary doctorate from Oxford. (It is another story that
	Oxford nullified the degree after Bhutto Sr. was charged with
	murder).
	And finally,  I prefer less educated Junejo, Chaudhry  Muhammad ali,
	Noon, Bogra over Benazir. They were not as messed up as she is.
	Atleast they all believed in Pakistan. She on the other hand, is on
	the record saying during Zia's time that if India attacks Pakistan,
	she will support Indian Army because of the dictatorship  
	in Pakistan. 
		
>got elected despite the mass rigging by the Government. I still rememeber the
>helicopter waiting for Jatoi to get elected, to take him to Islamabad for
>swearing in... poor guy didn't win his own seat.
	IT is funny indeed. Mr. Jatoi is another one of the crooks.
	Sorry I forgot to mention his name with Navaz Sharif, Benazir,
	Asghar Khan, and etc.


>>While She was the Primeminister of Pakistan, her husband was attending
>>parties with her Japanese girl friend. I mean she could not keep her
>>house in shape and thought she could rule Pakistan.

>I told you man!! Go release your tension.. 
	Thanks for the advice. I am done!
	But Zardari did have "daashtaa's" on the side while kaka Ishaq
	was on BB's side :-)


>>	I want to ask Pakistanis all over the world  how do they feel
>>about people like BB and Navaz getting into Govt.  How will
>>they feel If Gauhar Ayub becomes Pakistan's President after Ishaq Khan
>>retires. Will it be all right if Khufyaa Haath brings Shahnavaz into
>>Pakistan, just like it brought Benazir few years ago. And we may very
>>well have Shahnavaz Bhutto as a Prime Minister under Gauhar Ayub.
>>People say that History repeats itself. But in case of Pakistan,
>>only bad history repeats itself. Ayub Khan and Bhutto Sr. screwed
>>Pakistan 25 years ago. Their off springs will do it pretty soon.
>>God knows when Pakistan will get rid of chore-uchakkas and
>>lafangas and lafangees.
>

>God must be wondering what to do with mistakes like yourself :)
	He/She must be saying "Ek mistake aur sahee". I am sure
	there are other people like me, and I hope God keeps 
	making this mistake.


>>Jiaulhaq came with a promise that he will not stay for more than
>>90 days and the army will return to the barracks after holding a
>>"free and fair" election and a peaceful transfer of powers to the
>>elected govt.As we all know it now the 90 days never came and the
>>promise was never fulfilled.During the first few years Jia prosecuted
>>the politicians and opened a reign of terror for them.He was having
>>the complete support of Jamaat and Jiaulhaq was "mard-e-momin ,
>	It was not only Jamat. People like Asgha Khan, Jatoi,
>and Others were all with him. These theifs are shameless.
>
>
>>mard-e-haq".When Jia decide to hold elections it was on non-party
>>basis and it was after 8 years (more than 90 months and not 90 days)
>>The reason for the delay was simple he wanted to cleanse the Pakista
>>ni politics of "corrupt Politicians" who are "power hungry"!The 
>>elections were nothing but a farce and another joke to Pakistan.
>>The elections were being fought on individual basis therefore only
>>the local issues,if any,were addressed by the landlords who had the
>>means to run the elections.With the election over and assemblies 
>>formed the process of running the assemblies required parties,this
>>was quickly and willingly done by the unrepresentative assemblies
>>with the aid of Jiaulhaq and his key advisors and of course some
>>tax-payers' money.
>>Jia was not such a fool as he appeared to be.Before the elections
>>he held a referendum in which the question was "Do you support the
>>govt on the issues of Islamisation?".By the context of the question
>>it is evident who were behind the scene friends of Jiaulhaq.Answering 
>>this question in yes meannt that people of Pakistan have chosen
>>Jiaulhaq as the Presiden for 5 years.The first legislation which
>>Jiaulhaq's handpicked assembly passed was to ammend the constitution
>>and mentioned him in name as the President of Pakistan till 1990.
>>Thus he became the only dictator in the history of the world to be
>>mentioned by name in the constitution.

>	And how about Mr. Ayub Khan Declaring himself Field Marshal.

>Pappu Raja!! What you don't realize is the difference in the effect on
>the masses. Zia had denied the people the right to vote... Declaring oneself
>Field Marshal hardly matches... 
	I was only trying to say that Ayub Khan was as much of an idiot
	as Zia.
	By the way, Ayub and Zia both had their phoney elections.

[and I thought chimpanzees are closest to man :) ]
	Try me! 
I'm not really surprised you're protecting Jiaulhaq [sic]. 
	I am surprised you think I am protecting Zia.
	Gimmee a break.
>	
>
>>Janenajo became the next PM of the country which now had a Presidenti
>>tial form of govt.He as the name suggests,was a "simple" man and
>>did not try to ruin the country further.He was thrown out by his 
>	I think Muhammad Khan Junejo was a very sharif person. I like
>him for some reason. But even he had to rely on thiefs and robbers
>to run his govt. Ghaus ALi Shah was made C.M. of Sindh. This
>guy was later blamed for being involved in finance company scandal
>in Karachi. He was also resposible for mess up during operation clean up
>and bloody riots in Karachi after that. Well, so what happened. Did 
>Mr. Ghaus ali Shah retire from politics due to any kind of sharmindagee
>if not anything else. Nope, he is Pakistan's Defence Minister. 
>I think one has to pass all the stages of bayimani, ghunda gardi ,
>and chore-bazari to climb the political ladder in Pakistan.
>
>
>>mentor in 1988 charging his govt as corrupt and inefficient.There
>>was another promise fo election within 90 days and this time death
>>didn't give him time to back off.For the first time in the history
>>of the nation free and fair elections were held.The credit for this
>>goes to no one else but Gen. Mirza Aslam Baig ,the then COAS,who
> 	Nothing against Mr. Baig, but 1970 elections held under
>	Yoyo Khan are considered to be pretty fair.
>	But you are right, Gen. Baig should get credit for
>	not trying to get the power.
>

> What can I say about Baig... you'll again accuse me of some Ta'asoob-shit..

	Seems like you either knew what Ta'asoob meant or your Urdu
	improved in last few minutes :-)
	Go ahead and say any thing you wanna say about anyone. Just
	do not blame a city/minority/province/language/people
	instead of blaming that one person.
	
> Do you really think Gen. Baig _could_ have tried to bring a martial law...
	I think he could. His juniors would have loved it too.
	I know, it is hard for us to believe that someone will miss such
	a golden opportunity. But I am sure I am not the Only mistake
	God made. There are many in Pakistan, atleast I hope so.

>Sorry.. that was a stupid question :)
	Not at all, I think this was the only intelligent question/remark
	from you, since the start of this topic. 

>>instead of grabing power decided that it should be the people who
>>should have it and after more than a decade took the army back to
>>the barracks.
>>I'll try to post you with the post 1988 scenario sometime later, Ia
>	Please do so.
>>am getting late for my class.
>
>>MUBASHIR RIZVI.
>
>>Mansoor Khan 
>>Cleveland

>
>

>So Munnai Main... simple headed bozo... you were saying that you are not
>aware of what's been happening in Pakistani politics lately (yes the same
>lately as in 'Have you driven a ford _lately_). You seem to be quite up to
>date.

	Barae-Mian Saheb, I may be a simple headed bozo, but as you say,
I did keep myself pretty up to date, as far as Pakistani affairs are 
concerned.  What I had originally requested was that since I had
missed the elections in 1980s (being out of Pak. for the whole decade),
I would have appreciated some Political Naraas from the recent elections.
This did not mean that I was not aware of whatz going on over there.

>What surprises me is that in the whole fasana-e-ishq, there is no mention
>of MQM.. but, then... I am full of Ta'asoob-shit like my friends Javed Iqbal
>from Turkey and Rahim from South Africa :) :)
	I wish Pakistan's history was fasana-e-Ishq. Unfortunately, it
	is more of Fasana-e-Ajaa'eb. Atleast, Our politicians are
	mukamal Ajoobas. By the way, I like your use of Fasana-e-Ishq,
	your Urdu really got better in last few minutes.
	You are right, MQM was missing, but so was Jiay-SIndh, Panjabi-Pakhtoon
	Ittehad, Baluch Alliance, and Walikhan's party. 
	Except MQM and Panjabi-Pakhtoon Ittehad all others talk of
	breaking up of Pakistan. In fact PPP has become a Khilona in
	the hand of Jiay Sindh( in sindh). So after we have 
	gone thru the Alif-laelvee tales of Jiay-Sindh, Baluch Alliance,
	and Walikhan's party, we should discuss the MQM.

>If all above hasn't made sense to you.. PLEASE go back into whatever you came
						^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>out of... You win!! I concede defeat :) :)
  ^^^^^^^^^^
	It is too late. I am already out, can't do  much about it.


>Nadeem

Mansoor Khan
Cleveland.

Newsgroups: soc.culture.pakistan