From: viking@iastate.edu (Dan Sorenson)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: hand shake
Date: 27 Jan 93 19:57:05 GMT
Organization: Iowa State University, Ames IA


	I really hate to take issue with Gary, since I feel he brings
some quite valid points to bear.  However, I feel that I should explain
myself further in this regard.  My original posting has been deleted.

gary%ke4zv.uucp@mathcs.emory.edu (Gary Coffman) writes:

#A slowing of reaction time can be
#fatal in a car, and can ruin a round of skeet, but for the 5 shots
#in 10 minutes crowd, it's not a handicap. What may be dangerous,
#however, is the loss of good judgement that alcohol brings along.

	Quite right.

#I would contest most strongly your contention that the person 
#under the influence is the best judge of his mental state. That's
#obviously not true or there wouldn't be so many drunk drivers
#killing people on the roads. When a person who's falling down
#drunk thinks he's competent to operate a motor vehicle, his
#judgement of his own mental state must be suspect.

	And here is the crux of the point I'd like to contest.  In
my opinion, if you can't judge for yourself that you are unsafe,
who do you expect to do it for you?  I, at least, don't need sober
friends to tell me I'm slow on my reactions and shouldn't be shooting
or riding/driving.  I made a distinction between riding and driving
precisely because the past twenty years of riding have shown me that
a motorcycle requires far more by way of reflexes, awareness, and
motor control to handle when compared to a car.  In a car I don't need
to see that minor glint that indicates some sand on the corner.  On
a bike, that's a certain crash.  Hence, I both fear and respect the
dangers involved and draw the line at driving given a certain level
of intoxication (ie: I see a mostly-empty glass after an hour).  With
guns I make the same choice because I know lives may be in danger
should I screw up.  With the car, the level I need be aware is a bit
lower compared to guns or motorcycles, but I recognize that line and
know not to step beyond it.  The same needs to be true with the guns,
the cars, or the soldering iron and it's up to the person doing the
job to judge for himself when that line is crossed.

#I believe the only safe rule is that gunpowder and alcohol do
#not mix.

	I too believe this to be a good rule to follow, and you'll
notice that my two most feared/respected toys, so to speak, get
equal treatment under this guideline.  However, I also recognize
that individuals will be different in their reactions to various
drugs and should act accordingly.  On March 5th, at 7:00am, I go
in for surgery.  I can't for the life of me imagine doing anything
remotely critical at that time of day, yet it works for the surgeon.
By the same token, you drive to work at 7:30am each day and at that
time I consider myself a menace on the streets.  I trust the surgeon,
and you, to be awake and alert at that time.  I don't trust myself.
Allow me the courtesy of trusting you to judge yourself, and I'll
try to keep from ramming my truck into you by judging myself as
incompetent at that time of day.  As my posting concerning why I
don't trust myself to have a firearm by the bed indicated, we must
all be responsible for our own actions and draw the lines ourselves.

#Since alcohol dosage is time critical, I don't think
#there's a safe way to use it as a method of improving shooting
#ability.

	There are at least two people, my roomie and a poster, who
have indicated that it can be done.  The time critical part is, I
think, the key element.  At some point in the intoxication process,
the shooter/rider/driver needs to tell himself, "Time to stop/ride
pillion/call a cab."  If you can't do this, then frankly you should
not be trusting yourself to use potentially lethal objects.  If I
cannot trust myself to drive within a few hours of awakening, yet I
can within a few swallows of homebrew, can you trust me to park the
car in a lot a few miles down the road should the brew become more
than I am willing to accept?

	Drunken drivers can't be trusted to assess themselves.  They
should have handed over the keys an hour or more ago.  The same goes
for shooters, riders, or whomever.  As I told Dan, I'm trusting him
to make the assessment, and to err on the conservative side if at all.

	Then again, I trust people -- the first time.

	Please don't take this as some sort of minor flame.  It's not.
I just feel that my position needed a bit of further clarification.
If you don't feel comfortable drinking a beer last week and shooting
today, I certainly won't tell you differently.  I just find it rather
ludicrous to think that alcohol is some sort of wonder drug that
reduces people to homicidal maniacs when Hy-Vee Cold Relief Tablets
are taken each morning by drivers and are, to me, more intoxicating.
Furthermore, I judge myself and take precautions.  If I could not do
this, I have no business owning firearms or even the gladius over my
bed -- the risks are just too great for a mistake.

< Dan Sorenson, DoD #1066 z1dan@exnet.iastate.edu viking@iastate.edu >
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