HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: eah@xenitec.on.ca (Ed Hew)
Subject: Re: Domain naming conventions
Organization: XeniTec Consulting, Kitchener, Ontario, CANADA
Date: Mon, 04 Jan 1993 08:24:01 GMT

In article <1993Jan4.074003.9959@cs.UAlberta.CA> cdshaw@cs.UAlberta.CA (Chris Shaw) writes:
>Admittedly, multiple addresses for one domain won't hurt, although I'd be 
>stupid to put  cdshaw@T6G.ca  as my email address on a business card.

The odd time when I do have someone's business card (much less than 1%)
I like to be able to look at their email address to see where they are.
Instead of reading that long boring snail-mail address, at one fell
swoop it tells me roughly where their gateway is on the planet and clues
me on the connectivity it likely has.  It's not supposed to work that
way, but I appreciate how nicely it does!

>How do I remember people's email addresses?
>
>Most of the time, I go to a saved message in  elm  and reply to it.
>Other times, I use finger name@site

Isn't it annoying when you find that that gateway has firewalled finger?

                --ed            (Ed Hew)
--
        Canadian UUCP Map Coordinator           <path@cs.toronto.edu>
   ==>  UUCP liason to .CA Domain Registry	<registry@cs.toronto.edu>
        XeniTec Consulting Services             <edhew@xenitec.on.ca>
Newsgroups: can.domain
From: kozlowsk@acs.ucalgary.ca (Don M. Kozlowski)
Subject: Re: locality abbreviations (was Re: What is this group for?)
Date: Wed, 06 Jan 93 20:19:31 GMT
Organization: The University of Calgary, Alberta

In article <C0Eu46.9As@wimsey.bc.ca> sl@wimsey.bc.ca (Stuart Lynne) writes:
>In article <93Jan05.235304.27504@acs.ucalgary.ca> kozlowsk@acs.ucalgary.ca (Don M. Kozlowski) writes:
>
>I peeked at your CA-Domain Registration.
>

OK, I'll bite. How does one get a look at the CA-Domain Registrations?

[...]
>
>Well some people like hiding in the cyberspace. Why should they
>give up their privacy for something you like.
>
If they want to hide, then why would they want to use a postal
code in their address? What are they hiding from anyway? Wouldn't
they be better of using one of the sites that provide anonymous
internet access?

>>I know that V3H is in BC, but only because you've mentioned it
>>several times. I still don't know where in BC it is.
>
>You don't need to know where in BC it is. But I'll tell you anyway,
>it's Port Moody.

I wasn't really asking but thanks anyway :) I suppose I could
have run down to the postal station and looked it up myself,
although I avoid hardcopy whenver possible. 

-- 
Don Kozlowski	                 	Phone: (403) 220-5156
Academic Computing Services		Fax:   (403) 282-9199
The University of Calgary
Newsgroups: can.domain
From: sl@wimsey.bc.ca (Stuart Lynne)
Subject: Re: Domain naming conventions
Organization: Wimsey Information Services
Date: Sun, 10 Jan 1993 21:59:13 GMT

In article <1993Jan10.193745.1136@tdkcs.waterloo.on.ca> timk@tdkcs.waterloo.on.ca (Tim Kuehn) writes:
>In article <C0KFLq.Avy@wimsey.bc.ca> sl@wimsey.bc.ca (Stuart Lynne) writes:
>>In article <C0Iu73.1I9@uunet.ca> smd@uunet.ca (Sean Doran) writes:
>>Another case of a solution looking for a problem.
>
>ie the problem of allocating name-space as the Canadian cyberspace grows?

This is going circular.... 

I repeat. Nothing that has been said in this forum (or the namedroppers
list info) indicates that there will be a problem in the foreseeable 
future.

There are some indications that perhaps in the distant (5 years plus)
future there might. The root servers will not be supporting DNS with
4.8 BIND at that point. 

-- 
Stuart Lynne <sl@wimsey.com> ......................... UNIX Facsimile Software
Wimsey Information Technologies ................... moderator biz.sco.binaries
uucp login:nuucp passwd:nuucp .................... ftp.wimsey.com:~ftp/ls-lR.Z
PD Software for SCO UNIX .................... ftp.wimsey.com:~ftp/pub/wimseypd
Newsgroups: can.domain
From: smd@uunet.ca (Sean Doran)
Subject: Re: can.domain
Organization: UUNET Canada
Date: Sat, 9 Jan 1993 19:33:01 GMT

eah@xenitec.on.ca (Ed Hew) writes:

>I don't have accurate committee member addition info handy,

You do now; the formal list of committee members was just recently
posted to the committee's list.  I look forward to John Demco posting
it to can.domain, too. 

>but with the addition of the two new UUNET Canada representatives to the
>committee

This addition is not yet two days old, btw.

UUNET Canada's participation in the committee will be minimal, and
will likely be restricted to submitting forms directly rather than
through registry@cs.toronto.edu.  We have no particular desire to set
policy for registration in CA-DOM -- that's the job of John Demco, not
of service providers or representatives from various organizations.

Uneasy lies the head that wears a crown.  I have no desire to don one.

	Sean.
Newsgroups: can.domain
From: sl@wimsey.bc.ca (Stuart Lynne)
Subject: Re: locality abbreviations (was Re: Domain naming conventions)
Organization: Wimsey Information Services
Date: Thu, 7 Jan 1993 21:46:52 GMT

In article <1993Jan07.212332.1610@xenitec.on.ca> eah@xenitec.on.ca (Ed Hew) writes:
>In article <1993Jan6.224037.15946@sol.UVic.CA> klassen@sol.UVic.CA (Melvin Klassen) writes:
>to go by, the first applicant to ask for a particular reasonable
>locality abbreviation would result in that abbreviation becoming
>the "standard" for that locality.  So, if someone registers
>foo.edm.ab.ca (vrs foo.edmonton.ab.ca), then both "edm" and "edmonton"
>would forever more be the "official" allowable ways of specifying
>Edmonton in CA domain registrations.  That implies that the first
>organization in Port Moody to want to register a Port Moody subdomain
>in large part gets to decide what the Port Moody abbreviation might
>be codified to.

This is essentially what RFC1386 mandates for .US. I agree in 
principle, but don't think it should be limited to one and only
one abbreviation. I don't think we need to go overboard and allow
any and all, but there is probably an in between position. 

-- 
Stuart Lynne <sl@wimsey.com> ......................... UNIX Facsimile Software
Wimsey Information Technologies ................... moderator biz.sco.binaries
uucp login:nuucp passwd:nuucp .................... ftp.wimsey.com:~ftp/ls-lR.Z
PD Software for SCO UNIX .................... ftp.wimsey.com:~ftp/pub/wimseypd
Newsgroups: can.domain
From: 003316g@dragon.acadiau.ca (Steve Gregory)
Subject: Re: Domain naming conventions
Organization: Acadia University
Date: Thu, 7 Jan 1993 18:23:17 GMT

timk@tdkcs.waterloo.on.ca (Tim Kuehn) writes:

>In article <1993Jan6.224037.15946@sol.UVic.CA> klassen@sol.UVic.CA (Melvin Klassen) writes:
>>In article <1993Jan5.174007> timk@tdkcs.waterloo.on.ca (Tim Kuehn) writes:
>>>However, if we took the first four letters of all the city name(s), 
>>>would that generate a unique identifier within a province? 
>>Hmm.  In B.C., there are:
>>
>>Port Moody           Bella Bella
>>Port Alberni         Bella Coola
>>
>>so "four" or "five" isn't enough!

>That's what I said to use ALL the city name(s), not just the first name 
>component of a city name. Under this naming convention, they wouldn't
>be the names you cited, but:

>Port Moody	portmood
>Port Alberni	portalbe

>Bella Coola	bellacoola
>Bella Bella	bellabella

>If you have a bit of standardized abbreviations, you can shorten sites
>with "port", "saint", etc. down even further to:

>Port Moody	ptmood
>Port Alberni	ptalbe

      I'm still not too sure that the city name is even neccessary. I
understand that some people would like to have a really good idea where
their email is going. However, not all city names are that usefull. For
example if the domain convention was username@server.university.city.prov.
ca my address would be 003316g@dragon.acadiau.WOLFVILLE.ns.ca. Now most
people seeing this are still only going to know that I'm somewhere in N.S.
Wolfville just dosen't fit up there with citys that everyone knows. For
that matter a lot of Nova Scotians are hard pressed to tell you where it is.
      I do like the idea of including provinces in the domain name. Now
not only would someone know that I'm in Canada, but those who really care
will know that I'm in Nova Scotia. Also I feel that university and company
names should be more or less spelled out, such as waterloo, mcgill,
stmarys, an acadiau. Purhaps "dal" should use "dalhousie" I'm not too sure
well known the "dal" contraction is. Also a university such as U. of
Calgary would be better off using "ucalgary" or "calgaryu" as oppossed to
"ucal" or someting which might be mistaken for Cal-Tech or something.

Well this was only going to be my $0.02 but it has turned out to be about
a nickels worth.

> +-----------+-----------------------------------+---------------------------+
> | Tim Kuehn | TDK Consulting Services           | timk@tdkcs.waterloo.on.ca |
> | <><       | Ask me about news and mail in KW! | (519)-888-0766            |
> +-----------+-----------------------------------+---------------------------+
-- 

steve.gregory@acadiau.ca 
Help my .sig file has left me and is seeking a divorce, what should I do ?
< She claims I've been seeing another .sig! >
Newsgroups: can.domain
From: davidf@golem.waterloo.on.ca (David J. Fiander)
Subject: Re:  locality abbreviations 
Date: Wed, 06 Jan 1993 03:13:46 GMT

According to klassen@sol.UVic.CA (Melvin Klassen):
>In article <*> anne@maxwell.concordia.ca (Anne Bennett) writes:
>> I say just use the whole city name, and have done with it.
>I agree, as long as "we" agree how to handle "strange" B.C. place-names, e.g.,
>  Gibson's Landing

Yeah, right.  Lot's of strange names.  It almost makes me want
to move to Newfoundland.  I can just see it:

	foo@org.dildo.nf.ca

(right beside bar@company.happy-valley.nf.ca)

- David
Newsgroups: can.domain
From: smd@uunet.ca (Sean Doran)
Subject: Re: Q: organizational subdomains?
Organization: UUNET Canada
Date: Wed, 6 Jan 1993 18:17:10 GMT
Distribution: can

anne@maxwell.concordia.ca (Anne Bennett) writes:

>A fair question, but one that also applies to geographical subdomains.
>I'll grant, however, that many of CA*net's member nets are provincial
>networks, so perhaps we do have some of the substructure already in place
>for delegating provincial subdomains...

There is a small problem with delegating subdomains of CA to member
networks of CA*Net that has to do with CA*Net's topology.  It doesn't
make sense to locate the nameserver(s) for e.g. ab.ca in Alberta, and
it doesn't make sense to locate the nameserver(s) for pe.ca in PEI.
This is simply because the overwhelming bulk of traffic on CA*Net is
between a CA*Net network and a network south of the border.

DNS queries are mostly north-south in nature; CA*Net-based nameservers
end up being queried by resolvers south of the border more often than
by those in Canada.

For that reason, and because of slow intra-Canada links, John Demco
has located the nameservers for CA right near the north-south
connections between CA*Net and {NSF,ANS}Net.  There is also a single
nameserver outside CA*Net; it would probably be prudent to add another
somewhere on the other side of the CA*Net/NSFNet border, and I think
that John is working on that.

While the BC, ON and QC subdomains could easily be delegated without
running into difficulties posed by the CA*Net topology, there is not
much point in doing so (at the moment), as the organizations most
likely to do the nameservice for those subdomains are currently
providing nameservice for CA at the top-level.

>[...] since [John Demco]'s among the most
>experienced of us with respect to DNS management, I have to take his
>argument very seriously, even though I kind of like the idea of
>functional subdomains.

There is no question that the current subdivision of CA lends itself
well to further logical subdivisions.  Whether or not this should be
one of the overriding considerations when structuring a naming
hierarchy now, caeteris paribus, is something that is still quite
moot, imho.  For the present, there is no technical advantage to a
geographic structure.  Whether this is better for some "users"
(whoever they might be), or the owners of domains, or the applicants,
or the people providing nameservice is another set of issues that can
be argued about for a long time.

	Sean.

P.S.: I will say something nice here about the CA-DOM coordinator,
      though.  He is very quick at delegating authority to nameservers
      for existing subdomains of CA.  DNS-wise, CA is a tightly-run ship.
From: lyndon@unbc.edu (Lyndon Nerenberg)
Newsgroups: can.domain
Subject: Re: can.domain
Date: 6 Jan 93 22:24:47 GMT
Distribution: can
Organization: University of Northern B.C.


 eah@xenitec.on.ca (Ed Hew) writes:

> Lyndon, are you aware that in addition to many experience voices in
> the .ca "old boys" club, as you put it, there are quite a few newer
> committee members?  I was invited to join the CA Domain Committee
> just this last March, and there have been a number of newer additions

Don't forget that it took over five years for this to happen. I'm also aware
that there are applications currently being held up for questionable reasons
by some of the incumbent members. Hopefully the new blood will help resolve
those problems.

What does the current membership number, and how many of those people joined
within the last year?

--lyndon
Newsgroups: can.domain
From: eah@xenitec.on.ca (Ed Hew)
Subject: Re: registration -vs- forwarder policy
Organization: XeniTec Consulting, Kitchener, Ontario, CANADA
Date: Mon, 04 Jan 1993 07:05:34 GMT

In article <C098tL.L2D@wimsey.bc.ca> sl@wimsey.bc.ca (Stuart Lynne) writes:
>	[...] the domain registration lists information 
>that is not usable (the mailbox addresses).
>
>By comparison RFC1386 specifically states:
>
>	The key people must have electronic mailboxes (that work).
>and
>	The technical contact should have a valid working e-mail address.
>	This is necessary in case something goes wrong.

It's my understanding that working email addresses are required
in CA subdomain applications submitted for registration.  They
must be useable upon registration, and it's been that way since
I've been around.

                --ed            (Ed Hew)
--
        Canadian UUCP Map Coordinator           <path@cs.toronto.edu>
   ==>  UUCP liason to .CA Domain Registry	<registry@cs.toronto.edu>
        XeniTec Consulting Services             <edhew@xenitec.on.ca>
Newsgroups: can.domain
From: sl@wimsey.bc.ca (Stuart Lynne)
Subject: Re: locality abbreviations (was Re: What is this group for?)
Organization: Wimsey Information Services
Distribution: can
Date: Tue, 5 Jan 1993 22:57:09 GMT

In article <1993Jan5.124355.22433@analsyn.gts.org> anton@lethe.gts.org writes:
>In the article (<C0Cnut.6Fn@wimsey.bc.ca>) Stuart Lynne (sl@wimsey.bc.ca) posted to can.domain:
>: In article <1993Jan4.135926.11173@analsyn.gts.org> anton@lethe.gts.org writes:
>You call it DNS, I call it a table.  Its still a 'database'.
>Postal codes still multiply the size in a manner that is unwarrented.
>The load on the sysadmin grows, the likelyhood of error at that level

I wish we could get the powers that be to accept that it's really a 
database. Then there would be no real objections to abandoning
heirarchical addresses and simply allowing XXX.ca.

They will respond however that while the DNS is a database system, it
has some design constraints. These do allow it to be distributed and 
allow specific separate systems to be "authoritative" for specific parts
of the heirarchy. 

To be able to treat all of XXX.ca as one zone when it hit's 100,000's
of thousands of addresses *would* put some strains on the current DNS.

My personal opinion is that these problems will be hit in .com/.org long
before there are seen in .ca and that there will be better implementations
available to us when we need them. 

-- 
Stuart Lynne <sl@wimsey.com> ......................... UNIX Facsimile Software
Wimsey Information Technologies ................... moderator biz.sco.binaries
uucp login:nuucp passwd:nuucp .................... ftp.wimsey.com:~ftp/ls-lR.Z
PD Software for SCO UNIX .................... ftp.wimsey.com:~ftp/pub/wimseypd
Newsgroups: can.domain
From: sl@wimsey.bc.ca (Stuart Lynne)
Subject: Re: (large) Re: Q: organizational subdomains?
Organization: Wimsey Information Services
Distribution: can
Date: Thu, 7 Jan 1993 21:37:50 GMT

In article <C0HGDG.B0B@knot.ccs.queensu.ca> hooper@ccs.QueensU.CA (Andy Hooper) writes:
>In article <C0Gtvq.7AL@wimsey.bc.ca>, sl@wimsey.bc.ca (Stuart Lynne) writes:
>| Please share these difficulties with the rest of us. I know I don't read as

>From the 'namedroppers' mailing list archives:

Finally some interesting commentary. Thanks for posting it. 

Wouldn't it be nice if we could see the CA Domain Committee's archives?

-- 
Stuart Lynne <sl@wimsey.com> ......................... UNIX Facsimile Software
Wimsey Information Technologies ................... moderator biz.sco.binaries
uucp login:nuucp passwd:nuucp .................... ftp.wimsey.com:~ftp/ls-lR.Z
PD Software for SCO UNIX .................... ftp.wimsey.com:~ftp/pub/wimseypd
Newsgroups: can.domain
From: sl@wimsey.bc.ca (Stuart Lynne)
Subject: Re: Domain naming conventions
Organization: Wimsey Information Services
Date: Mon, 4 Jan 1993 21:40:47 GMT

In article <C0CAr4.Hr4@ccu.umanitoba.ca> rahardj@ccu.umanitoba.ca (Budi Rahardjo) writes:
>
>It's not hard for you, but hard for me.
>If I want to send you a mail, I have to think...
>was that v3h ? or v8h ? or v3e ... it's easier for me to remember 'bc'.

If you have received mail from me, you will already have it in a mailbox
and will use R(eply (if you are using elm), or alias it. If you havn't
then you have to construct it by phoning me, looking at business card
or something similiar. At that point it's not a matter of you remembering
anything but of transcribing it right.

>There's also another problem. If I move say 10 blocks away, do I have
>to change my domain ?

Well I don't know how the Municipalities are organized in Winnipeg. But 
here in "Vancovuer" there are lot's to choose from. And in many cases 
moving a mile (10 blocks) could result in a new municipality. And if you 
are moving then why is 10 blocks the magic number. Are you more willing 
to have to change it if you move from one suburb to another than if you
move a block or two away? 

But I actually agree in principle that moves should not require changes
of email addresses. See my previous post. 

BTW under the new guidelines your email address would have been:

	rahardj@ccu.umanitoba.mb.ca

or if the guidelines are applied uniformly:

	rahardj@ccu.umanitoba.winnipag.mb.ca

Although I would still prefer (if we must have political geography
based system):

	rahardj@ccu.umanitoba.R3T.CA

-- 
Stuart Lynne <sl@wimsey.com> ......................... UNIX Facsimile Software
Wimsey Information Technologies ................... moderator biz.sco.binaries
uucp login:nuucp passwd:nuucp .................... ftp.wimsey.com:~ftp/ls-lR.Z
PD Software for SCO UNIX .................... ftp.wimsey.com:~ftp/pub/wimseypd
Newsgroups: can.domain
From: eah@xenitec.on.ca (Ed Hew)
Subject: Re: locality abbreviations 
Organization: XeniTec Consulting, Kitchener, Ontario, CANADA
Date: Fri, 08 Jan 1993 09:03:20 GMT

In article <1993Jan5.123440.22233@analsyn.gts.org> anton@lethe.gts.org writes:
>When I ran into the guidlines I was told ther were exceptions to the 
><org>.<prov>.ca layout, such as organizations which span provinces, or
>universities.  I can see a few of these in the maps and records,
>although some, like bell, choose to use province designators as well.
>
>Are we going to FORCE everyone to use province, even if they wern't
>before and didn't need to ?

The current, and proposed, guidelines don't force _anyone_ to
involuntarily re-register.  New registrations, and voluntary
re-registration applications are considered within the parameters
of the most recently finalized Application Form.

                --ed            (Ed Hew)
--
        Canadian UUCP Map Coordinator           <path@cs.toronto.edu>
   ==>  UUCP liason to .CA Domain Registry	<registry@cs.toronto.edu>
        XeniTec Consulting Services             <edhew@xenitec.on.ca>
Newsgroups: can.domain
From: davidf@golem.waterloo.on.ca (David J. Fiander)
Subject: Re: Domain naming conventions
Date: Thu, 07 Jan 1993 23:45:33 GMT

First, an general philosophy statement which is not a direct
response to any of the comments that I have seen to date: I
think that, regardless of how the publicly administered parts of
a domain are managed, there will have to be a geographical
component in any domain name.

Smaller domains (like golem.whatever or hcr.com) don't require
explicit geographical differences in the domain name (although
golem.waterloo.on.ca has one), because there is only one
location.  Larger domains will be forced to either have the
administrator for the public part of the domain name do the
work for them (separately registered org.on.ca and org.bc.ca),
or they will have to do it internally (site1.org.ca and
site2.org.ca).

Whether internal geographical divisions are externally visible
is a policy decision (sco.com is split site-wise internally,
and the Toronto office makes that split visible in news
postings, but not in email messages).

According to eah@xenitec.on.ca (Ed Hew):
>>So the population of Canada is less than twice that of The
>>Netherlands.  It may be true that Canada needs to split its
>>top-level domain and The Netherlands doesn't, but this hardly
>>seems obvious from the population figures.

One reason for Canada's needing to split it's domain space is
indirectly related to it's low population density.  Because
Canada is such a diffuse country services, and hence service
providers, tend to be duplicated more often.  For example,
there are 52 Degree granting institutions in Canada, but
probably not more than 10 in the Netherlands (unfortunately,
the "World" Almanac does not report that particular piece of
information).

This duplication of services means that we tend to have more
institutions, and hence more names, than a more densely
populated region.

>
>Has anyone bothered to contact the people with authority over
>the .nl domain to ascertain what exactly their needs and position
>on this issue are?  Without this information, comments on .nl are
>sheer speculation.

Not quite sheer speculation.  Empirically, I have never seen a
domain name in the .nl top-level domain whose second-level
domain was not privately managed.

- David
Newsgroups: can.domain
From: anton@analsyn.gts.org (Anton J Aylward)
Subject: Re: locality abbreviations 
Reply-To: anton@lethe.gts.org
Organization: ASCI: UNIX Database and Communications
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1 PL8]
Date: Thu, 7 Jan 1993 01:11:35 GMT

In the article (<C0EJH2.CBn@wimsey.bc.ca>) Stuart Lynne (sl@wimsey.bc.ca) posted to can.domain:

: So we have a bunch of people who already have their addresses registered
: where they like them (as XXX.ca), who won't be forced to change them,
: commenting on how the rest of us should be happy :-(

Precisely!
And, like Bruce Becker, how many will say stuff it and go else where?

--
Anton J Aylward	
	"The body politic is swerving from left to right and right to
	 left looking for quick fixes for systemic problems."
	   - Paul Palango, Journalist, ex The Globe and Mail
Newsgroups: can.domain