From: asr@castle.ed.ac.uk (Angus "Fluffy" Rae)
Newsgroups: alt.true-crime
Subject: Re: Dead Criminals Don't Kill
Date: 13 Apr 92 11:38:11 GMT
Organization: CATHY_VoiceMail_Project

art@world.std.com (Al Thompson) writes:

>In article <19943@castle.ed.ac.uk> asr@castle.ed.ac.uk (Angus "Fluffy" Rae) writes:
>   art@world.std.com (Al Thompson) writes:
>   >In article <19882@castle.ed.ac.uk> asr@castle.ed.ac.uk (Angus "Fluffy" Rae) writes:

>   Basically it's pretty impossible to compare both countries, especially
>   in the area of guns (which is probably got the above poster annoyed).
>No, it was a snotty European attitude about how superior we cultured
>Europeans are to you rough crude yanks are.

Oh, for chrissakes! It was a four line personal comment which was from
me, not my culture or my country. Moralistic, maybe. But I'm like that.
Besides, I'm Highland and we don't regard ourselves as being part of
Europe really - usually we don't consider ourselves part of the UK.

If you want to see it as a personal attack against your country, do so
by all means. It was never intended as such.

[Firearms history deleted]

>   Hence the basic difference. In general, the British regard guns as
>   "nasty" (I couldn't find a better word). This is not the case in the
>   USA, where guns are almost essential.
>No, but they were not so nasty when used to keep your empire intact.
>Remember the Zulus?  Remember the Boers?  Remember the Revolutionary War?
>You Brits didn't think guns were so nasty then.

That was _soldiers_. I'm not talking about a minority group, I'm talking
about the "general public". "Us Brits" weren't involved except in a
semi-patriotic way. The point I actually made was that the settlers had
guns as a matter of course, and quite rightly. They're sons (and
daughters) grew up with guns, bought guns of their own and so on. So
even after the dangers were massively reduced people were used to having
them around. This isn't a bad thing in itself.

In the UK guns have been used for fighting and for hunting (and for
crime, just to get the group in). The idea of having a gun for
self-defence, "just in case", never really took off here. Myself, I
think it's slightly silly. I'd be quite happy to have a low power
"disabling" weapon freely available.

I'm not trying to change your culture, or even your opinion. I was just
commenting on a personal belief. The poster I was following up to mailed
me and informed me nicely that he thought I was wrong (I haven't replied
to him yet, sorry if you're reading - no time...). 

I'm quite happy to accept that. We have a difference of opinions.

>   However - no one has actually commented on the first (and far larger)
>   part of my article on the death penalty - everyone seems to have jumped
>   on four lines about gun control.
>I think the death penalty is important and must be retained.  As did the
>folk who dreamt up Tiburn Hill.  The last people on earth who should be
>giving lessons in morals to the rest of the world are the British

We're not giving lessons in morals to the rest of the world. I simply
pointed out a number of cases where if the death penalty had been
applied innocent people would now be dead. I also presented my
_personal_ opinion, not my culture/country's, that it's too dangerous to
have a death penalty where mistakes like that might be made. I was using
the British judicial system because that's the one I know. I would have
quite happily gone to another country, or even a non-DP state in the US.
But I wouldn't have known nearly enough to make a comment, and would
have been (quite rightly) flamed.

This has gone quite far enough, I think. 

My last comment: There's not room in my plan for a disclaimer, so I
don't bother adding one. Any comments I make are my own personal
feelings, based on my own beliefs and judgements. They have nothing to
do with my job or my geographical location.

And a final PS - Tiburn Hill rings a bell, but I can't place it and my
reference books are a couple of hundred miles away... care to refresh
the ol' aging neurons?
-- 
Angus G Rae, the Cuddly Vampire Teddy Bear [asr@castle.edinburgh.ac.uk]
CATHY VoiceMail, Computer Science Dept., Edinburgh University
"I'm on the run from the Facist Police with a murderer and
 a mass murderer and a man in a bri-nylon shirt."  Rimmer, Red Dwarf V