HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: entropy@wpi.WPI.EDU (Lawrence C Foard)
Subject: Re: Homosexualism
Organization: Worcester Polytechnic Institute
Date: Fri, 10 Apr 1992 20:06:08 GMT

In article <1992Apr8.222512.15355@awdprime.austin.ibm.com> jfh@greenber.austin.ibm.com (John F Haugh II) writes:
                                                  ^^^
Take off the necktie before posting, you might think more clearly. 

>Sorry, being born with or without testicles is readily observable.  Show
>me this "likes members of the same gender" gene.  

Its only recently that people have been able to isolate genes for anything.
Show me the gene that causes the tendency toward alcoholism, or the gene
that makes some people naturally fat, finding a gene is a major undertaking
but this isn't required before something can be identified as being genetic.
The twins studies and the like are the first step toward determining if 
homosexuality is genetic, even if it is not genetic that doesn't imply a
choice, even if it is a choice that doesn't imply that it is wrong.

>Explain how, in the
>presense of this gene, people who are "likes members of the same gender"
>positive can choose to stop being "likes members of the same gender"
>positive, because THIS happens.  

Explain how someone who likes both meat and toffu can stop eating meat.
People like to ignore the fact that alot of people like both sexs to 
atleast some extent. Even those who don't are certainly capable of faking
it, I'm sure you could pretend you where gay with enough persausion.

>And I am led to believe that with AIDS
>being what it is, this is happening more and more ...

Lets say 10 years of therapy could make a happy gay man into a happy
heterosexual. Why should someone waste 10 years of there life doing so? 
Don't use AIDS as an excuse, AIDS is easily preventable, foregoing anal
sex or always using a condom is not so hard as you would have people
believe.
-- 
Disclaimer: All opinions expressed are 99.44% true.            ------  0<p<1  
Hackers do it for fun.  |  Being Bisexual squares your         \    / therefore
"Profesionals" do it for money. |  probability of not getting   \  / p^2<p and
Managers have others do it for them. |  laid on a saturday night.\/ 1-p^2>1-p
From: jzimm@ccwf.cc.utexas.edu (Joann Zimmerman)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
Subject: Re: Asimov's mystery fiction
Date: 14 Apr 92 15:46:07 GMT
Organization: The University of Texas at Austin, Austin TX

In article <122184@lll-winken.LLNL.GOV> ed@wente.llnl.gov (Ed Suranyi) writes:
>Is anybody else a fan of Asimov's mystery fiction?  I've always
>liked his "Black Widowers" stories.  The mysteries themselves are
>sometimes trivial (though difficult to solve) puzzles, but what I
>like are the intellectual discussions and arguments that go on in
>the club.

Funny. I've just finished rereading all 4 collections (are there
more?) because I've been feeling the need to reread something
interesting yet familiar, and that is also capable of being broken
into short chunks. (Mid-semester crunch tends to use up the available
"originality" cells.) Yes, they're fine. 

I was struck this time around by the introduction to the first volume,
in which Asimov states that one of the bylaws of the Trap Door Spiders
(the real-life group that inspired Asimov's creation of the Black
Widowers) provided that every member was supposed to see to it that
mention of the Trap Door Spiders appeared in his obituary. I've seen
at least 3 obits by now, and don't recall seeing the TDS mentioned in
a single one, even that over-half-a-page-long thing in the NYTimes.


-- 
"There are times when the historian must regret the modern artist's
irresistible urge to explain himself."   
                                                     Peter Gay, _Art and Act_
..!cs.utexas.edu!ccwf.cc.utexas.edu!jzimm   
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
From: francis@oas.stanford.edu (Francis Muir)
Subject: Re: King Arthur, many versions
Organization: Stanford Exploration Project
Date: Fri, 10 Apr 1992 19:18:50 GMT

It used to be -- or so it seemed -- that not a day would pass without
one of my alter egos posting on Peacock. For Things Arthurian with a
Brythonic twist let me recommend Thomas Love Peacock's *The Misfortunes
of Elphin*. Choice tidbits include the *War Song of Dinas Vawr* which
begins:

	The mountain sheep are sweeter,
	But the valley sheep are fatter;
	We therefore deemed it meeter
	To carry off the latter......

All faithfully set in the 6th Century with lots of lovely Olde Welshe
to keep you tongue-tied. 

						Francis Muir

francis@sep.stanford.edu


Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
From: ian@spider.co.uk (Ian Heavens)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
Subject: Re: Cruelty in Human History (was Re: The Painted Bird)
Date: 13 Apr 92 10:27:06 GMT
Organization: Spider Systems Limited, Edinburgh, UK.

In article <10390@optilink.UUCP> cramer@optilink.UUCP (Clayton Cramer) writes:

>I'm not arguing for less attention to the Holocaust -- but more
>attention to the Soviet Union's savagery.  Unfortunately, until
>very recently, serious criticism of the Soviet Union was considered
>evidence that you were a "right-wing extremist."  The reason was
>because much of our intelligentsia were in profound sympathy with
>the Communist Party.

The first 'serious criticism' of the Soviet Union was by the anarchists.
See 'Living My Life', Vol.2, by Emma Goldman, and other works.

ian


---
Ian Heavens				ian@spider.co.uk                 
Spider Systems Ltd			
Spider Park, Stanwell Street		
Edinburgh, EH6 5NG, Scotland		+44 31 554 9424 (Ext 4166)
--
From: lieser@iccgcc.decnet.ab.com (Ed Lieser)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
Subject: Pulitzer Prize, was Re:read any good?
Date: 10 Apr 92 17:15:56 EST
Organization: Test PLease ignore

someone asks:

> Read any good books lately?

Noone's mentioned this year's Pulitzer Prize winning work of fiction yet?
It's "A Thousand Acres" by Jane Smiley.  I can't give a review -- just bought
it last night.  I've never been steered too far wrong on a PP winner yet.
In fact, when I've nothing else to read, I consult the World Almanac for some
Pulitzer Prize winner I haven't read yet.

On the other hand, try Tobias Wolff.  Several books of short stories are
available, so try one or two shorts.  If you don't like them, not much time
invested, eh?

Ed
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
From: msmorris@watsci.waterloo.edu (Mike Morris)
Subject: Re: Q about _Gravity's_Rainbow_
Organization: University of Waterloo, Waterloo, Ontario
Date: Tue, 14 Apr 1992 19:43:44 GMT

                                Tuesday, the 14th of April, 1992

Joe Green writes about Finnegans Wake:
                                             I also think that if a 
   river could talk this is how it would talk.
and
   It cheers me up a hell of a lot.  
It is intensely beautiful. I'm not sure if *I*'d imagine a river
this way, but two thoughts:

First, upon mulling it over, I think that das E-W is qualitatively different
in the Wake than the other ``Great Themes'' I had listed it with. Joyce
really captures something about femaleness, especially in Ulysses and
in the Wake.

Second, a Joycean prof once told me that Joyce thought Shakespeare his
only rival. I don't recall that one in Ellmann, so I don't know if
there's a quote to back it up, or if rather this was the prof's
evaluation of what Joyce thought of himself. Anyway, I'll take the
comparison to hand: Joyce is to Shakespeare for me something like Vergil
is to Homer. I find both Joyce and Vergil a little too art-ful to
prefer them to their earlier rivals.

                  Mike Morris
           (msmorris@watsci.uwaterloo.ca)
From: kcr@rushforth.Eng.Sun.COM (Kevin Rushforth)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
Subject: Re: read any good books lately?
Date: 10 Apr 92 05:59:50 GMT
Organization: Sun Microsystems, Mt. View, Ca.
NNTP-Posting-Host: rushforth

loosemore-sandra@CS.YALE.EDU (Sandra Loosemore) writes:

>This newsgroup has seemed kind of slow lately.  Is everybody too busy
>reading books to post here any more?  :-)  What have you all been
>reading?  

I am currently reading POSSESSION by A. S. Byatt (thanks to the various
net.discussions).  I am about 150 pages into it, and am enjoying it
thus far.

I just finished A HISTORY OF THE WORLD IN 10 1/2 CHAPTERS by Julian
Barnes.  It was an interesting novel -- or rather collection of linked
short stories with several common themes running through them.  I think
this one will go on my reread pile fairly soon (although there are
enough unread books to read that I rarely reread books anymore).

Also recently read were: BREATHING LESSONS by Anne Tyler (recommended)
and WUTHERING HEIGHTS by Emily Bronte (I liked it but would only
recommend it to those who don't mind reading books without likable
protagonists).

In the guilty pleasures department: THE FIRM by John Grisham which,
despite a couple of minor flaws, was a fairly well-written and
enjoyable thriller.  Btw, has anyone read THE PELICAN BRIEF yet?

-- 
Kevin C. Rushforth                 | "If winning is not important,
Sun Microsystems                   |  then commander, why keep score?"
                                   |              - Lt. Worf
INET: kcr@Eng.Sun.COM              |
UUCP: <the-backbone>!sun!eng!kcr   |
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
From: packer@amarna.gsfc.nasa.gov (Charles Packer)
Subject: Re: Q about _Gravity's_Rainbow_
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.4-b1  
Organization: Dept. of Independence
Date: Wed, 8 Apr 1992 12:02:00 GMT

In article <1992Mar24.221725.18765@eff.org>, mnemonic@eff.org (Mike Godwin) writes...
>I can't imagine how a plot summary would do anyone any good at all in
>appreciating GR.


Isn't there something to appreciate in the apparent uniqueness
of this plot, that is, that somebody would be followed around to
investigate the connection between his very private acts and
devastating public events?
From: wagner@ohstpy.mps.ohio-state.edu
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
Subject: Re: Italo Svevo
Date: 16 Apr 92 02:00:25 GMT
Distribution: na

In article <1992Apr15.212819.18964@wam.umd.edu>, gretzky@wam.umd.edu (Keith Robert Gretzky) writes:
> Has anyone read Italo Svevo's _Confessions of Zeno_?
Yes.
> 
> If so how did you like it?
Very much.  He tries to give up smoking and has a psychoanalyst.  It's 
a funny book.
						-Luke
From: kji+@SPEECH1.CS.CMU.EDU (Kathi Iannamico)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
Subject: Re:Hist/disp on hol/whomever
Date: 14 Apr 92 20:01:07 GMT
Organization: School of Computer Science, Carnegie Mellon
Originator: kji@SPEECH1.CS.CMU.EDU

To all who felt you neded to police my posts:

Since the self-absorbed little nerds came out of the woodwork on this,
(and I doubt any of you even read the original post), you can all do something
you probably didn't have the brains to think of in the first place:
don't read the posts.  Now there's a novel approach in avoiding ideas that
displease you.

And I don't want any more of you pitiless eggs sending me any more of your
offensive tripe through my email either.  You're missing one very important
point: I don't care what you post; I don't care who you are; I don't care
what you think of me or my ideas.

If you want to continue this, you can do it among yourselves, you gaggle
of pompous, self-deluding geeks.


And I'm sorry that all the people who were not involved in this have to
read this.
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
From: doom@elaine5.Stanford.EDU (Joseph Brenner)
Subject: Kerouac (was Re: A about _Gravity's_Rainbow_)
Organization: DSG, Stanford University
Date:  9 Apr 92 09:25:56 GMT

Leroy writes:

>    People use the same excuse for Kerouac, but his "Gee whiz, I sure like 
>jazz and travel" ideas never seemed too difficult. It's fascinating that
>Kerouac, Pynchon and the execrable Tom Robbins are lauded for their inability
>to maintain narrative, and specifically for their lazy editing. 
      
The excesses of Kerouac's "spontaneous prose" hurt many of
his books (_Dr. Sax_ is infinitely tedious, for example), but
several of them work quite well. _The Dharma Bums_ seems to
be his best.  _The Subterraneans_ is also pretty tight. 

And even the ever popular, notorious _On the Road_... well,
what *is* the point of the book, except a celebration of
spontaneity, of aimlessness, of dropping out of the
incredibly anal, conformist 1950s world?   How could this
theme be better executed than with an improvised, random
structure?  


Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
From: mnemonic@eff.org (Mike Godwin)
Subject: Re: A about _Gravity's_Rainbow_
Originator: mnemonic@eff.org
Organization: Electronic Frontier Foundation
Date: Fri, 10 Apr 1992 07:57:03 GMT

In article <leroy.702618840@syzygy> Leroy writes:

>    A lot of criticism of Pynchon gets dismissed this way. I'm curious: what
>possible themes, ideas, etc could Pynchon present that _can't_ appear in  
>"traditional" formats?

Not a one. It's not that Pynchon's content requires a certain form--it's
that his form is part of the content. 

>    People use the same excuse for Kerouac, but his "Gee whiz, I sure like 
>jazz and travel" ideas never seemed too difficult.

Ah, this explains it--if you don't "get" Kerouac, it's no wonder you can't
"get" Pynchon, who's a more complex author. Your insistence on measuring a
writer by his "ideas" suggests you read too much science fiction in your
youth. If "ideas" are the measure of an author, where does that leave
Shakespeare and Jane Austen?On the ash heap of history, I guess.

For Pynchon, "ideas" are a jumping-off point. But he can't reach readers
who are too timid to take the plunge with him.

>It's fascinating that
>Kerouac, Pynchon and the excerable Tom Robbins are lauded for their inability
>to maintain narrative, and specifically for their lazy editing. 

Your argument is weak, but that shouldn't drive you to invent lies as you
do here. No one has lauded any of these authors for "inability to maintain
narrative" or for "their lazy editing."

But since you mention it, it occurs to me that if this posting is
representative of your own ideas and writing style, you should be more
cautious about calling other writers "lazy."

>(One apology:
>Robbins can write a "nice" story. Pity he can't make it interesting).

I agree that Robbins is dull. It is unfathomable to me, however, how any
intelligent reader can see a similarity between Robbins and Pynchon.


--Mike




-- 
Mike Godwin,     |"Anyone who has obeyed nature by transmitting a piece
mnemonic@eff.org | of gossip experiences the explosive relief that
(617) 864-0665   | accompanies the satisfying of a primary need."
EFF, Cambridge   |          --Primo Levi
From: morteng@loke.dhhalden.no (MORTEN GRAESBY)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
Subject: The Tolkien way..
Date: 7 Apr 92 18:58:09 GMT
Organization: Ostfold College

First: Is there any special group for discussions about the Tolkien- books?
I guess it's alright to discuss anything related to books in this news-group?
(I'm news to this group)

Second: The other day I read a book by Lloyd Alexander titled The Book of 
Three, a real Tolkien- style story with heros, dwarfs and evil men.
The book has it's own "versions" of Frodo, Gandalf and Sauron. Hereby 
recommended! (Well, Tolkien is still the superior, of course).
Have any of you net- people read anything by this author? How's the other 
books in the saga of Taran the Assistant Pig- Keeper? (Does he become a 
hero?).


+=========================================================================+
|     Morten Gresby                           /\/\                        |
|     Ostfold DH-college, Halden, Norway      o o )  -Cheers...           |
|     E-mail: morteng@loke.dhhalden.no        -- /                        |
+===========================================  """  =======================+
From: jeremy@sw.oz.au (Jeremy Fitzhardinge)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
Subject: Re: A about _Gravity's_Rainbow_
Date: 16 Apr 92 02:37:02 GMT
Organization: Softway Pty Ltd

In <1992Apr13.181118.22526@eff.org> mnemonic@eff.org (Mike Godwin) writes:

>In article <leroy.703140994@syzygy> Leroy. writes:
>>     Originally, I was curious why Pynchon was "non-traditional." From the 
>>replies I've had, it seems to be a manhood thing: the literary equivalent of
>>bunjee-jumping. 
>Not at all. Bungee-jumping is not the only way to "take a plunge." But if
>this is an example of how you go about interpreting innocuous and
>unexceptional metaphor, it's no wonder that Pynchon trips you up. Indeed,

I find it fascinating that you can misinterpret English so easily, and
yet maintain literary pretensions.  As a play on words,
"bunjee-jumping" is good - it encapsulates the "take a plunge" image,
but also incorporates the rites of passage that many people here seem
to associate with reading _Gravity's Rainbow_ and the like.  I'm
surprised you missed it.

>I begin to suspect you'd have problems with Dr. Seuss.

Much like your problems with r.a.b, perhaps?

>>     Frankly, all these manly insults are a little boring.
>
>It wouldn't occur to me to insult your manhood. Such as it is.

You are hardly strengthening your argument with mal-formed,
ungrammatical schoolyard insults.

--
jeremy@softway.sw.oz.au ph:+61 2 698 2322-x122 fax:+61 2 699 9174
Many a wonderful picnic has been spoiled by Blubberknife.
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
From: jdnicoll@watyew.uwaterloo.ca (James Davis Nicoll)
Subject: Re: Fantasy suggestions - list
Organization: University of Waterloo
Date: Wed, 15 Apr 1992 01:57:42 GMT

	Too late, I fear, but a perfect book to read in Panama is Iain
Bank's 'Canal Dreams'.

							James Nicoll
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
From: eugene@wilbur.nas.nasa.gov (Eugene N. Miya)
Subject: Muir's inventions
Organization: NAS, NASA Ames Research Center, Moffett Field, CA
Date: Mon, 6 Apr 92 23:36:11 GMT
Distribution: na

In article <4APR199207314255@amarna.gsfc.nasa.gov>
packer@amarna.gsfc.nasa.gov (Charles Packer) writes:
>Anyway, I've been wondering about these amazing mechanical
>devices he said he built when he was a child -- clocks that
>tipped up the bed in the morning, turned pages, or whatever;
>giant thermometers, etc. Were there illustrations of these
>in his books or books about him? I can't remember. Maybe
>it was just a bunch of Scottish tale-telling?

I have seen photos of the study desk page turner.  It exists.  Other people
have similar clock-like devices.  I am not certain where it is located:
The Smithsonian?  The Univ. of Wisconsin?  Muir's Marin CA home?
I don't know right off the top of my head, but I know exactly who to ask
(Rod Nash at UCSB, he would know).

Out of here. 'u'

--eugene miya, NASA Ames Research Center, eugene@orville.nas.nasa.gov
  Resident Cynic, Rock of Ages Home for Retired Hackers
  {uunet,mailrus,other gateways}!ames!eugene
This is the Usenet: do you expect anything other than gross generalizations?
Ref: Mathematics and Plausible Reasoning, vol. 1, G. Polya
From: muffy@remarque.berkeley.edu (Muffy Barkocy)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
Subject: Chronicles of Prydain (was Re: The Tolkien way..)
Date: 9 Apr 92 10:58:41
Organization: Natural Language Incorporated
NNTP-Posting-Host: remarque.berkeley.edu
In-reply-to: morteng@loke.dhhalden.no's message of 7 Apr 92 18:58:09 GMT

In article <morteng.34@loke.dhhalden.no> morteng@loke.dhhalden.no (MORTEN GRAESBY) writes:
>Second: The other day I read a book by Lloyd Alexander titled The Book of 
>Three, a real Tolkien- style story with heros, dwarfs and evil men.
>The book has it's own "versions" of Frodo, Gandalf and Sauron.

I don't think that this is a very accurate depiciton of the book.  While
there may be various similarities, they are mostly things like "there is
a character who is the personification of evil," which is not uncommon
in fantasy stories in general.

>Hereby 
>recommended!

Here, I'll agree with you!

>Have any of you net- people read anything by this author? How's the other 
>books in the saga of Taran the Assistant Pig- Keeper? (Does he become a 
>hero?).

The other books are as good, or better.  I particularly like the second
one, "The Black Cauldron."  I won't answer your second question, because
it is much more interesting to read the books and find out

I particularly like these books because they are full of moral/ethical
points without getting overwhelmed by them.

Muffy
--

Muffy Barkocy                             muffy@mica.berkeley.edu
~Little round planet/in a big universe/sometimes it looks blessed/
 sometimes it looks cursed/Depends on what you look at, obviously/
 But even more it depends on the way that you see~ - Bruce Cockburn
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
From: n2412@cray.com (Joe Green)
Subject: Re: Q about _Gravity's_Rainbow_
Organization: Cray Research, Inc.
Date: 10 Apr 92 16:19:49 CDT

In article <VANCE.92Apr10093446@kyoto.speech.sri.com> vance@speech.sri.com (Vance Maverick) writes:
>
>In article <1992Apr9.142342.16989@hemlock.cray.com> n2412@cray.com (Joe Green) writes:
>
>   No, Ulysses is the greatest comic novel in English.  This means that
>   it is the greatest novel.  

>
>Feeling a little pontifical, Joe?

Yes, I am.  In fact, I am holding my own world youth conference here
in St. Paul even if the other Pope doesn't want to.  I will use my
necromantic powers to arrange a drag race between James Joyce and
John Milton and the fine haired fellows of rab are invited to select
seats in the first tier.

  You have this great habit of
>presenting syllogisms which are missing a few terms, leaving us the
>amusing game of filling them in.


  Here I guess a conjunction of
>"Comic novels are the best novels" and "English novels are better than
>foreign novels", each of which requires a little persuasion.  Care to try?


Yes, I presume to much, I presume.  You are a skilled exegete and are
partially correct. Ulysses is the greatest comic novel in English --
which is what Joyce cared about.  Guys would blather on about the
mythic structure and so on and Joyce would ask.... "Yes, yes,
but did you think it was funny?"   

Greatest and best probably silly, but fun -- and it is spring and
time for fun even if it is snowing here in the white hell.


Ulysses is the greatest comic novel in English because I have read
all the likely candidates that I know of and laughed the most
while reading Ulysses.  Laughed, snickered, chuckled, chortled,
guffawed, and so on and it was the variety of the types of laughter
(including horrid laughter) that impressed me.  I also felt that
it was the "happiest" novel in English because it seemed to me
to almost break into a newness -- the newness that Adorno hints might
exist outside the fungible world.  The Wake probably even
happier but its sheer Entishness (I mean Tolkien's Ents) so
strange that it might describe that world -- and I am overwhelmed
by the colors and sounds and really don't know what to say.   
Also Ulysses is the greatest comic novel because it breaks away from
the constraints imposed on comedy -- to begin in dearth, bring on the
clowns, and then scourge the clowns off stage -- leaving the audience
with a sense that the world was renewed but making certain that they
go back to their jobs.  The carnival does not end in Ulysses --
tho what is outside (Bloom a Jew after all) imposes its own
ending.
-- 
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books