HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: tyadav@athena.mit.edu (Tapesh Yadav)
Subject: Re: Moving this newsgroup to soc.culture hierarchy
Organization: Massachusetts Institute of Technology
Date: Sun, 11 Oct 1992 14:46:11 GMT

============================
 raghavan@wk28.nas.nasa.gov (Venkatraman Raghavan) writes:
>How about a core team of Amirthi, Manish, Mehul, Satyen and Tapesh 
>with Satyen in the lead?

 wait a sec.

 to "soc," or not to "soc"
  that is the question
   someone, pleez tell me
    without too much sound and fury
     why we want to move from "alt" group to "soc" group

 could it be that everything basic evolves
  and does that mean few months from now
   we may metamorphose, once more
    from "soc" group to "sci (-fi)" group

 i am all for it, if such ascii transforms
  will bring more tables with two cups  
   (and less barbaric neighbors)

T.Y.
----
tyadav@athena.mit.edu

ps: also, tell me pleez
     what happened to that group
      which was called s.c.i.a or s.c.a.i or something like that
       why does it not exist in my .newsrc anymore
        is the world changing
Newsgroups: alt.culture.us.asian-indian
From: mgundeko@pcserver2.Naitc.Com (Murthy Gundekota)
Subject: Re: Is the term "desi" appropriate?
Organization: Somewhere near Chicago
Distribution: na
Date: Thu, 8 Oct 92 21:05:44 GMT

In article <POPAT.92Oct7203036@image.mit.edu> popat@image.mit.edu (Kris Popat) writes:
>In article <1992Oct7.080532.24261@ncsu.edu> hdeshma@eos.ncsu.edu (HARSHAVARDHAN  DESHMANE) writes:
>>oh, and bharatiya makes a lot of sense, if it is used by a non-Indian??
>>
>>-harsh
>
>It certainly makes more sense than "desi."  Plus I think it sounds a
>lot better.  Weeds out the wanna be's who can't muster "bh".


The bulls are locked after three rounds and there is no hope for a
settlement. So a referee walks in...

I think Bharatiya refers to Bharat, as though we are all descendents
of that son of short-memory king Dushyant and his abandoned wife who
had to eke out a living by joining a fisherman's colony. That means,
genetically we are all flawed, if this story were to be true, on two
accounts: (a) we don't have good memories, (b) we are sexist toward
our women and don't care what happens to our kids and not the least,
(c) some of us closer to Bharat like fish a lot (and guess who are
they :-) Since I don't have at least 2 out of these 3 affinities, I am
not a Bharatiya. However, I am willing to be called a desi, because
desh is a very generic term (even though it is from the goddamn Hindi)
with roots in Sanskrit that refers to a country. Could be any country.
Not Bharat's or Hindi speaking tongue-heads. Suppose, someone calls me
a desi with derision, I would assume they mean I am a pariah. Not bad,
considering the wasted patriotism on such meaningless frivolities,
especially when I haven't done anything to pariah myself or
ex-communicate myself. Of course, I still hate Hindi, for what it
stands for. Enuff reason to pariah myself.

...now the bulls have unlocked their horns and attacked the referee
who runs for cover inside that red dress of the lady in the first
row....


Murthy


Newsgroups: alt.culture.us.asian-indian
From: gagrawal@cs.tamu.edu (Gopal Agrawal)
Subject: Re: Desis on TV (was Re: MCI commercials)
Organization: Computer Science Department, Texas A&M University
Date: Fri, 9 Oct 1992 15:36:38 GMT

>In article <1992Oct8.013742.25248@cs.cornell.edu> soam@cs.cornell.edu (Soam Acharya) writes:
>>
>>Dreaming of the day we'll get someone vaguely Indian looking on 
>>"Star Trek, The Next Generation".....
>>---------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>   Soam Acharya					soam@ee.cornell.edu
>
What about Persis Khambatta (sp?) (the bald one) in early StarTrek 
movies ? She was Indian.

regards,
--   
   ______ ______ ______ ______ __  |\/\/\/|
    ____/  __  /  __  /  __  /  /  |  \  /|   LIFE'S COMPLEX - IT HAS 
   / __   /   /  /   /  /   /  /   | (o)(o)   REAL & IMAGINARY PARTS  
  /   /  /   /   ___/  __  /  /    C      _) 
_____/ _____/ __/   __/ __/ ______/ | \___|  
E-mail - gagrawal@cs.tamu.edu       |   /   All Std. Disclaimers apply.
From: alok@cbnewsi.cb.att.com (alok.vijayvargia)
Newsgroups: alt.culture.us.asian-indian
Subject: Re: To Marry (Indian) or Not?
Date: 12 Oct 92 22:25:49 GMT
Distribution: na
Organization: AT&T

In article <1992Oct12.162822.29327@midway.uchicago.edu>, moh2@quads.uchicago.edu (Kateri/Mary Anne) writes:
> 
> >A paternalistic traditional culture also has a positive side.
> >Do you understand what the positive side of it is ?
> 
> Not really...explain, please?

1) In a paternalistic traditional culture, children are well protected
and supported. (Of course they have to compromise their freedom a little).

2) A lot of advice and company is usually available - you don't get
lonely. In an individualistic culture, loneliness is a problem.

3) Major expenses are usually covered by elders, you have to pay them some 
respect however.

4) Elders work as your free sales/PR agent. They talk good about you to 
others. (They may be hard on you in private, but they usually will talk 
good about you outside).

There are other benefits too. Unfortunately I don't have time to analyze 
it further today.

> >Sure. Would you like to move this group to the main heirarchy of
> >newsgroups so that you can educate the Americans more effectively
> >about the great IA culture ? First do you consider yourself an IA ? 
> >
> 
> Main heirarchy?  You mean make it a soc group?  Sure.  


YES.

> I would encourage americans to read and post here.  

Good, now we are cooking !

> And, for better or for worse, I'm afraid I *have* to consider myself an IA.  
> It's too much a part of me, inwardly and outwardly, for me to just walk 
> away from it.

Now if only Manish would realize that :-)

> I hate labels.

Me too. But we need some system of identification.

> And you, you are a thousand miles away,
> There are always two cups at my table.		 - A T'ang Dynasty poem

Sorry, I am taken :-)
I have become Amita's Alok ...
Anyway my neighbors are quite nice (not barbarian at all).

Alok
Newsgroups: alt.culture.us.asian-indian,soc.culture.asian.american
From: mgundeko@pcserver2.Naitc.Com (Murthy Gundekota)
Newsgroups: alt.culture.us.asian-indian
Subject: Re: MCI commercials
Date: 8 Oct 92 21:28:49 GMT
Organization: Somewhere near Chicago

In article <1992Oct8.013742.25248@cs.cornell.edu> soam@cs.cornell.edu (Soam Acharya) writes:
>Thank goodness for "Gandhi".  Unfortunately, the first thing that Americans seem to 
>remember from that film is his accent.  

And Ben Kingsley had to learn that accent. That means, in the bowels
of Britain, between the Pidgin and Irish stutterers, there must be a
bunch of punks or high soceity knight-dicks who must be setting the
standards for the highest achievement of Indian-English accent, no
matter whether average Indians really exceeded that standards. Of
course, if Gandhi, or Ben Kingsley, were to have the "perfect" accent
(I mean, no curses and "God save the queen" interludes), that movie
would have been even worse. Ever saw a British make of Chengis Khan?
I would rather be surrounded by a desert storm and stampeded by flying
camels until my ears-drums and retina are fragmenteded into particles
smaller than the smallest of quartz in the desert-sand, than watch
Chengis Khan pronounce the death of his enemies in perfectly thick
accent: "Let the tween save the God and we shall all visit the pussy
in the twell, after pfilling these trecherous mosquitoes." Aaarg!
Makes me puke into a Killian's bottle.

But hey, Americans aren't that bad. They are only milder racists
compared to the British. They at least follow Bollywood in presenting
the South Indian (or Tamilnadu) english accent in its true form.
Sometimes when it isn't south indian, the grammatical errors and the
choice of incorrect words are merely inadvertent. Who ever said the
script writers aren't the actors themselves?

I wonder why can't one out of the upteen spelling bees, of Indian
origin, couldn't swarm the Hollywood with their talent. Are these bees
too tired to fly around for talent contests? Or are they lured by the
bick bucks following medical, engineering and law degrees? Some of
those IA tennis dudes and dudettes can give it a shot, if only they
can see through the kaleidoscope that they are never gonna make it
into the pro circuit. Unless they are too shy, even to admit the
racism in Hollywood. Or is it time a rich Indian doctor turned into a
Hollywood producer to undo all the myths about Indian streotypes? I am
not a doctor, but I can try, if someone has the sacks :-)


Murthy
Newsgroups: alt.culture.us.asian-indian
From: mgundeko@pcserver2.Naitc.Com (Murthy Gundekota)
Subject: Re: Compelling evolutionary reasons for inter-racial marriages (Re: Ten Best Reasons to Date Indian)
Organization: Somewhere near Chicago
Date: Wed, 7 Oct 92 16:39:27 GMT

In article <7OCT199202270697@vaxa.weeg.uiowa.edu> sklautky@vaxa.weeg.uiowa.edu (Stephen Klautky) writes:
>>indian vs. african-american
>>indian vs. chinese
>>indian vs. anglo-saxon
>         I
>         I
>         I-->  "vs."? don't you mean "and".  You see us fighting
>               future spouses if there is intermarrying?  :-)  :-)
>
>
>-=] Stephen [=-       SKLAUTKY@VAXA.WEEG.UIOWA.EDU


That was inadvertent, if not sad (;=) If I can summarize your long
article, you are supportive of inter-racial marriages, but
you have problems dealing with those off-spring who can be
discriminated based on the prevailing prejudices against their
parental races. For instance, a child of african-american and indian,
may have to still live with prevailing racism against
african-americans, depending upon how striking this child looks
african-american. Of course, true racists will discriminate, even if 
they can't figure from the features, once they know of someone's
origins. One way to silence such bigots is to quote a scientific
opinion. So this paleontologist from Kenya visiting Chicago recently
thinks as follows:

(i) color of skin is a factor related to the environmental conditions,
i.e. hot vs. cold
(ii) features are also derived from the environment
(iii) the differences among features is very little in various cultures

The bottom line is: those who want to emphasize the differences among
people, are like the ones who created races. And those governments
that rule based on the differences among people, as opposed to
government action to make the differences disappear, are accentuating
these differences. The fact that neither the US Constitution nor the
Bill of Rights (I wonder what Supreme Court thinks) provides equal
status for an individual of no race or color, shows the conceit and
repression in the world's best system, which eastern Europeans and
Soviets have fought to emulate. 

Finally, even though we don't know of any breakthroughs from
inter-racial marriages, going by one definition of evolution: to adapt
for the future, we can still hope that inter-racial marriages in this
society will help architect a better civilization than it is now, in
terms of their value system. In this context, I take pride in India.
However, currently the science and technology aspects are unequal
between India and US. But then, science is a very recent phenomenon in
the evolutionary scale of time and it won't be too far before all
nations in this world will have the same scientific knowledge to pave
for equal progress. 


Murthy

Xref: sparky alt.culture.us.asian-indian:915 soc.culture.asian.american:9587
From: samaddar@siemens.com (Sumitro Samaddar)
Newsgroups: alt.culture.us.asian-indian,soc.culture.asian.american
Subject: Re: Prejudice and ignorance... how to solve it?
Date: 13 Oct 92 20:46:58 GMT
Reply-To: samaddar@siemens.com
Followup-To: alt.culture.us.asian-indian
Distribution: na

tyadav@athena.mit.edu (Tapesh Yadav) writes:

> (3) Because knowledge of heritage doesn't help anybody
>     know "you." Unless of course, if you are nothing but the heritage.
           ^^^^^

>                 Or is it "to be respected for who I am" - that I seek.
                                                ^^^^^^^^

I keep hearing these terms, 'know "you"', 'who "I" (really) am'. What
do they mean? Usually the "real me" excludes physical attributes like
looks and physique (don't hate me because I am fat). Does it also exclude
mental attributes (don't hate me because I am dumb)? Finally, what attributes
DO we include in figuring out the "real you/me"

Sumitro	
Newsgroups: alt.culture.us.asian-indian
From: c150-bt@po.berkeley.edu (Manish Vij)
Subject: Re: unbounded tolerance - the new ideal ? (Re: Long hairs ...
Organization: University of California, at Berkeley
Distribution: na
Date: Tue, 13 Oct 1992 02:53:19 GMT

In article <1992Oct12.234456.27460@cbnewsi.cb.att.com> alok@cbnewsi.cb.att.com (alok.vijayvargia) writes:
>In article <1992Oct12.204101.21240@pasteur.Berkeley.EDU>, c150-bt@po.berkeley.edu (Manish Vij) writes:
>
>> whole point I'm trying to get across: your conservatism is not just
>> dislike for a specific hairstyle, but intolerance for a variety of
>> personal appearances and, by extension, the ideas of those people.
>
>Aren't you being intolerant to his ideas too ?

Yes, but it is intolerance of intolerance.  If I kill a cancer cell, do you
tell me I'm also being malignant?  If Guru Nanak failed to listen to orthodox
Hinduism, would you have told him he was intolerant of those ideas?

>> My parents actually don't object too much at all, neither about the hair
>> nor about the motorcycle, and I'm much relieved.
>
>Why did you then write a few weeks back that your parents dragged you
>and your brother to get a hair cut ?
>
>Were you dishonest then ?

That was my brother alone, not me, and he was horribly upset.

Fix your broken newsreader.  It seems to be distorting everything you
read.

Manish
                                          /-\o /-()  -- -  --   -
   Manish Vij    ::    '89 EX500          \_/ \\/ )  -- -    --
   mvij@ocf.berkeley.edu                       |/_\  -- -  --   - 
                                                \_/.  .  . . ........
From: pghol@ctp.com (Preeti Anissa Gholap)
Newsgroups: alt.culture.us.asian-indian
Subject: Re: Is the term "desi" appropriate?
Date: 12 Oct 92 17:12:23 GMT
Distribution: na
Organization: Cambridge Technology Partners

In article <1992Oct8.043446.8850@tamsun.tamu.edu> rgopu@cs.tamu.edu (Rangarathnam Gopu) writes:
>>	The white man is still referred to as white (as veLLai kaaran in
>>	Tamil) and so far at least they haven't considered that offensive.
>>	WHy should some one feel it is offensive when they are referred to by
>>	their skin colour, unless they are ashamed of belonging to a 
>>	particular race. 

Manish adds:
>As you say, so shall you think.  Language is both a mirror and a feedback
>to the brain. 

Most true!  also, its how its said TO you... my white friends 
know exactly what I mean on the occasions I've said to them:
"You're acting WHITE" -- they know what I meant to connote, and 
take the point as such. 
They're obviously not ashamed of being the color white, but
take the comment to mean that the attitude or action they
displayed (that provoked the comment) was perceived as being
colonialist, racist or any thing else savoury thats lugged around
in white cultural/historical baggage... :)

(Now please don't go wasting your precious petroleum on me --
I would not go around saying this to anybody but close friends
with whom I share an understanding on what we can say and
get away with. They, in turn, can bestow on me the ultimate
insult, that I'M "acting white"  :)

Being <your favorite color> is an experience that is
5% physical and 95% mental. 

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
^ Preeti Anissa Gholap ^ CTP Inc. ^ 304 Vassar St. ^ Cambridge MA 02139 USA ^
^ pghol@ctp.com        ^          ^ (617)374-9800  ^                        ^
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
From: alok@cbnewsi.cb.att.com (alok.vijayvargia)
Newsgroups: alt.culture.us.asian-indian
Subject: Re: Long hair and closemindedness (A small correction)
Date: 13 Oct 92 17:28:16 GMT
Distribution: na
Organization: AT&T

In article <1992Oct13.073743.1360@ringer.cs.utsa.edu>, abhandar@ringer.cs.utsa.edu (Anil Bhandari) writes:
> 
> Alok as far as I know the 5 K's were given by Guru Gobind Singh and not
> by Guru Nanak. The 5 K's
> 		Kesh , Kanga, Kachha, Kripan, Kada were meant to give the
> sikhs an identity as a group(khalsa) or the "pure ". On a deeper level
> it was to symbolize the sikhs to be both the warrior and a saint.
> From there comes the kesh(long hair.. just like the rishis and munis of
> ancient india) . The kanga is to keep the hair clean and groomed the 
> kaccha symbolizes control over self (various emotions desires etc which both
> a saint and a warrior must have in control) . The kripan is to protect 
>  oneself and the weak. The kada is the identity of the group.
> Please let me know if they had other meanings, I would be interested.
> 

I am not aware of any other meanings. I used to think they were symbolic
after Guru Nanak. Guru Gobind Singh structured the Sikhism and gave it its
present form. The concepts however were laid by Guru Nanak, the first of 
the 10 Gurus Sikhs have had. Other intermediate Gurus added or nurtured Sikh 
principles.

> pros's and con's of marrying an indian girl compared to an IA girl 
> giving the example of your wife. My feelings are the same but I feel 
> you were very lucky to marry a woman with the sort of qualities as you 
> have described your wife to be . 


Well, it wasn't easy. I had to look around for almost 5 years.
And then I used my experience gained by dating in making a decision.
There was some input from my parents and family members too.

Alok
> 
> 				BULL1 on irc ..(some one stole my nick:)
Newsgroups: alt.culture.us.asian-indian
From: alok@cbnewsi.cb.att.com (alok.vijayvargia)
Newsgroups: alt.culture.us.asian-indian
Subject: Re: Long hair and closemindedness (Was looking for attention?)
Date: 12 Oct 92 19:43:55 GMT
Distribution: na
Organization: AT&T

In article <samaddar.718902971@dumbo>, samaddar@siemens.com (Sumitro Samaddar) writes:
> 
> P.S. I'm not "viscerally" against long hair. Just trying to understand
>      motives. At worst, it is a harmless rebellion against II parents.

Yes it appears to be a form of rebellion - against II parents, against
II friends and in a way against Indian culture.

BTW, Manish, you mentioned Sikhs grow 'kesh' as a sign of virility.
No they do not grow it as a sign of virility but as part of a tradition.
Guru Nanak, the founding father of Sikhism started this tradition of 
growing hairs while he was exiled in the forest. Clearly he had no means 
to cut his hairs in the forest in those times. He was exiled for speaking 
up against Hindu orthodoxy.

Incidentally he also kept a knife, a comb, a sword and a bracelet. 
Thus started the tradition in Sikhism of keeping these items and growing 
hairs after the founder of the religion.

One may consider growing hair as a form of protest against religious
orthodoxy. 

Hippies in USA grew hair as form of protest against religious orthodoxy
as well, the only difference is that in this case the protest was against
Christian orthodoxy (as opposed to Hindu orthodoxy for Guru Nanak).

Manish's growing hair appears to be a protest against conservatism by 
and large. Perhaps a protest against 'Reagan-Bush-Quayle' era as well :-)

Alok
Newsgroups: alt.culture.us.asian-indian
From: raghavan@wk28.nas.nasa.gov (Venkatraman Raghavan)
Newsgroups: alt.culture.us.asian-indian
Subject: Re: Propagation Statistics
Date: 8 Oct 92 17:46:49 GMT
Organization: -

alok>   Any stat on s.c.t. ?

[Thanks, Satyen]
Here is some more, taken from ...
---
    ... the full set of data from the USENET readership report for Sep 92.

        +-- Estimated total number of people who read the group, worldwide.
        |     +-- Actual number of readers in sampled population
        |     |     +-- Propagation: how many sites receive this group at all
        |     |     |      +-- Recent traffic (messages per month)
        |     |     |      |      +-- Recent traffic (kilobytes per month)
        |     |     |      |      |      +-- Crossposting percentage
        |     |     |      |      |      |    +-- Cost ratio: $US/month/rdr
        |     |     |      |      |      |    |      +-- Share: % of newsrders
        |     |     |      |      |      |    |      |   who read this group.
        V     V     V      V      V      V    V      V

  24  62000  2040   71%  2188  5052.9    24%  0.11   4.4%  soc.culture.indian 
 594  15000   507   60%   117   230.4    12%  0.02   1.1%  r.m.i.classical 
 933   9900   326   59%   246   330.1     5%  0.04   0.7%  r.m.i.misc 
1078   7700   255   36%    33    57.7    29%  0.01   0.5%  alt.culture.tamil 
1105   7500   246   43%   601  1722.8    27%  0.19   0.5%  soc.culture.tamil 
1133   7200   236   38%    85   245.2     3%  0.03   0.5%  a.c.us.asian-indian 
1309   5100   169   35%     -       -      -     -   0.4%  s.c.indian.telugu 
1400   3900   128   36%    10    10.0    10%  0.00   0.3%  s.c.indian.american 

There was no newsgroup mentioned with 'kerala' or 'karnataka' in the name.
---
Newsgroups: alt.culture.us.asian-indian
From: sphilip@cs.ulowell.edu (Sheela B. Philip)
Subject: Re: Ideas for ACK
Organization: University of Massachusetts at Lowell Computer Science
Date: Wed, 14 Oct 1992 19:26:02 GMT

In article <1992Oct14.034847.29179@colorado.edu> manu@tigger.cs.Colorado.EDU (K. S. Manu) writes:
>In article <1992Oct13.175245.6595@constellation.ecn.uoknor.edu> mchundat@midway.ecn.uoknor.edu (Mathai Chundattu) writes:
>>
>>The following is not intended for fighting. But, it is a fact that
>>people from the Ernakulam district speak the purest possible malayalam.
>>No accents, no variations but exactly like it is written in books. Only
>
>How horrible!!! Imagine listening to a Malayalam professor all the time!!
>
>Imagine your beautiful (you wish! :)), newly wed bride coming into the
>bedroom saying,
>
>"Sahodara, kudikkan kurachu palu konduvannittundu."
>
>as opposed to,
>
>"chatta, palu" 
>
>I know what I would like to hear.. how about you?
>
>Spoken language is NOT the same as written language... it is the differences
>in speaking a language that makes it interesting and exciting... A pretty girl
>talking in trichur malayalam... now, that's something I'd like to hear.
>:)
>
>BTW, how do you know what written language sounds like? Also, you shoud learn
>to spell the name of your place correctly.. it's Eranakulam and NOT
>Ernakulam
>
>>Mathai
>
>Njan

you mean chetta,  not chatta , I hope.
You know what chatta var is don't you, the kind of whips that Indiana Jones
likes to flaunt.

:-)  :-) :-)
Ben