HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: darice@yoyo.cc.monash.edu.au (Fred Rice)
Subject: Re: STNG sucks!!!
Organization: Monash University, Melb., Australia.
Date: Tue, 8 Sep 1992 12:59:01 GMT

In <1992Sep6.082014.27021@unlv.edu> sknkwrks@unlv.edu (Scott Alfter) writes:

>Each of the two series has its
>merits...TOS is, as you write, more action-oriented.  TNG, on the
>other hand, is more cerebral and requires a slightly more active
>thought process (more active than yours, perhaps? <zing> ) to
>comprehend.

While I find the original poster's posting as embarassing as most TOS
fans I'm sure do, I cannot agree with the above comment.  TNG -- more
cerebral?  In many a TOS episode, the crew of the Enterprise was faced
with an alien adversary much more supremely powerful than the pitiful
(by comparison) weapons and know-how of the Enterprise and its crew (eg.
"The Corbomite Maneuver" (sp?), "Plato's Stepchildren" (if I got the title
right.)).  In these episodes, Cap'n Kirk and his cohorts had to resort
to wits in order to survive, as they were clearly outgunned in the brute
strength department.  *By contrast*, on TNG rarely do they meet up with
alien lifeforms significantly more powerful than themselves, which
require any brains at all.  IMNSHO, the TNG crew could easily do their
jobs with practically no brains at all.  In fact, they probably do.  ;)

The other point in which I think TOS is superior to TNG is that the
characters are actually *human*!  The TNG characters seem so concerned
about always following the rules and regulations *to the letter*.  By
contrast, Captain Kirk was a human being -- he sometimes bent the rules.
He was not a robot.

Well, that's my $.02 worth.  I've never joined the TOS vs. TNG debate
before, and I've wanted to get that out of my system for a long time! :)

 Fred Rice
 darice@yoyo.cc.monash.edu.au   

Newsgroups: rec.arts.startrek.misc
From: tperreau@zia.aoc.nrao.edu (The Mad Scot)
Subject: Re: Who's got the best beam-out?
Organization: National Radio Astronomy Observatory, Socorro NM
Date: Sun, 6 Sep 92 22:32:06 GMT

In article <Bu6ErK.LMA@news.cso.uiuc.edu> cjp53999@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (Cory James Padfield) writes:
>mark@IMD.Sterling.COM (Mark Buglewicz) writes:
>
>>In article <92Aug28.160116.20645@acs.ucalgary.ca> jsbell@acs.ucalgary.ca (Joshua Bell) writes:
>>>Hmmmm... Out of the Federation sparkle, Q flash, Ferengi swirl,
>>>(is it just me or does this sound like an order placed in
>>>10-Forward?), Borg tracer-fade, and anything else we've seen,
>>>what do people like the best?
>>>
>>I think the Federation beam-out from the MOVIES are best.
>>You know, the vertical beams that move out to the sides...
>
>>Mark
>
>
>
>    I agree that the movies have fairly good ones. The enterprise in TNG has
>    fairly decent ones too. My vote goes to the "phase inverter" or whatever
>    it was called used by the terrorists on an episode in the 3rd or 4th
>    season. I remember the terrorist leader's name was Finn, and he like Bev,
>    after he kidnapped her. Anyone have a better memory? What am I saying, of
>    course someone here has every detail on this episode. ADthanksVANCE for
>    any help.
>
>Regards,
>Cory Padfield 
>
>

What I found most interesting the above mentioned episode with the
terrorists is that the leader's name, Finn, is an Irish derivative
(from Fionn, meaning "fair" - usually used to describe fair-haired
Irish).  The connotations between this episode and what is happening
in Northern Ireland with the IRA and the British forces is obvious.
If the Federation wanted to stay neutral in this conflict, thus
preserving the Prime Directive (TM), then they should have given
(IMHO) non-military aid to both sides (medical supplies, foodstuff,
etc.) and then left - if the terrorists won, then they won.

I would highly suspect that if we had a time machine and used it to
visit the British Army forces in America around 1778, the Brits would
consider the Americans to be terrorists.  They certainly thought the
Scots were such in 1745.


-- 
================================================================================
Tony Perreault, High Tech Babysitter & Nanny	tperreau@zia.aoc.nrao.edu
Array Operations, Very Large Array	      All opinions expressed are my
Socorro, NM				        own and not those of NRAO
Newsgroups: rec.arts.startrek.misc
From: sknkwrks@unlv.edu (Scott Alfter)
Subject: Re: STNG sucks!!!
Organization: Skunk Works Software Co.
Date: Sun, 6 Sep 92 08:20:14 GMT

Great...not even a week goes by since I've started following this
newsgroup again, and we're already getting drivel like this:

In article <Sep06.052102.20138@yuma.ACNS.ColoState.EDU> mk568652@longs.LANCE.ColoState.EDU (Mitchell Kotler) writes:
>Keywords: 	Listen all of you fags out there, there's only one real Star

No fags here...but I won't speak for anybody else.

>Trek and that's
>	the original.  This New Generation shit has boring plots, just a lot of good

New Generation?  I thought that was some sort of anti-baldness
treatment...or the group of people that supposedly drink Pepsi (yecch).

>	special effects -  so what.  It's the script that counts and Shatner's
>portrayal
>	of Kirk was perfect.  I've watched a few episodes and I don't see the
>suspense ,
>	the action, or the wit of the "real" Star Trek.    Stop denying the
>truth to your-
>	selves, STNG sucks!!!

I could make some sort of "microbrain" comment, but I won't.  If you
don't like the show, don't watch it.  Each of the two series has its
merits...TOS is, as you write, more action-oriented.  TNG, on the
other hand, is more cerebral and requires a slightly more active
thought process (more active than yours, perhaps? <zing> ) to
comprehend.

  _/_   Scott Alfter                             Internet: sknkwrks@cs.unlv.edu
 / v \  Call the Skunk Works BBS today!                      Fidonet: 1:209/765
(IIe (  TEMPORARILY OFFLINE    Apple II/IBM
 \_^_/  Ask me about SoftDAC--digital audio for your IIe/IIc! Apple II Forever!
From: landrews@outb.wimsey.bc.ca (Luke Andrews)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.startrek.misc
Subject: Re: Mutiny on the Holodeck
Date: 8 Sep 92 12:28:39 PDT
Organization: Wizard Online

>My idea in a nutshell:  The Big-E conducts another exercise to prepare
>for a Borg invasion (that is, if the Borg don't pay attention to the events
>in "I Hugh."  Here's the scenario:  the Borg have assimilated Romulans and
>now have knowledge of Romulan tehnology, such as cloaking devices.  The
>senior officers decide to run simulations on the Holodeck (for a reason
>I really haven't thought of yet, they just do).  They reconstruct a perfect
>replica of the bridge and begin war exercises.  Given the fact that the 
>holodeck replicates matter, and in theory can replicate actual 
>instrumentation that works (I'm using the events in "A Matter of Perspective"
>as a reference), would it be possible for a mutinous crewmember to use 
>the bridge on the holodeck to take over the ship?

Its an excellent idea.  However, you are a bit late.

The book titled "Boogeyman" by Mel Gilden (#17) has a plot not too different from your own.

Although it doesn't involve the Romulans or the Borg, it does involve simulations which cause a takeover of the Enterprise.

Not to spoil it for those that haven't read it, I won't go into any more details.

--- Via UCI v1.02 (C-Net Amiga)

=----------------------------------------------------------------------------=
|  Luke Andrews /*/ landrews@outb.wimsey.bc.ca. <-- Ick!  Why so icky?       |
=----------------------------------------------------------------------------=
|   /* What genius designed C?  Who ever heard of "malloc" and "forkl"? */   |
=----------------------------------------------------------------------------=
From: fnord@panix.com (Cliff Heller)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.startrek.misc
Subject: Re: Just when you thought it was safe to read the group - O'BRIEN RANK 2!!
Date: 15 Sep 92 17:22:27 GMT
Distribution: rec.arts.startrek.misc
Organization: Right Bleedin' Church of Libertine Obfuscatology

In <BuKy6w.H9s@acsu.buffalo.edu> v075q5fr@ubvmsb.cc.buffalo.edu (Scott J Gorcey) writes:

>     Yes, very reasonable.
>     Reasonable also to assume that K'Ehleyr is the half-twin sister
>     (from another timeline, naturally) of Doctor Selar.  We KNOW
>     that both are on the Enterprise at the same time - because
>     Doctor Selar was mentioned as still serving aboard the Enterprise
>     AFTER K'Ehleyr had made her two appearances...
>     And, of course, we can't forget that Ensign Ro is the reincarnation
>     (thrown back in time several years) of Timicin's daughter in
>     "Half a Life."
>     Doctor Pulaski is really the long lost granddaughter of either
>     Miranda or Lt Whatshername...
>     Kirk's son David, of course, died on Genesis, but his ESSENCE
>     traveled to the planet Ornara and was reborn.
>     Funny, that Genesis thing: Joachim had the SAME thing happen
>     to him, but he went to Brekka.

>     Wow, there seem to be a lot of clones running around the
>     Star Trek universe, the way you see it...


Absolutely and Picard went through a time warp in order to do voice-overs
for late 20th century Pontiac commercials.

-- 
    / \      Reverend fnord                 | "King Kong died for your sins!"
   /   \     fnord@panix.com                | 
  / <0> \                                   | "Don't just eat a hamburger, 
 /_______\   Church of Obfuscatology, Inc.  |  eat the HELL out of it!"
Newsgroups: rec.arts.startrek.misc
From: vnelson@ccu.umanitoba.ca (Gerald Vernon Nelson)
Subject: Re: STNG sucks!!!
Organization: University of Manitoba, Winnipeg, Canada
Date: Wed, 9 Sep 1992 02:16:43 GMT

I'll put my vote in for TOS.

I'm waiting for the final episode of ST:TNG where the entire crew of
the U.S.S. "DAYCARE" commits suicide because they cannot bear to fire upon
some poorly armed aggressor.

If that doesn't happen, they will probably retreat back to Earth after
realizing how much they are polluting the Cosmos.  Just ain't proper.

I admit that Kirk jumped the gun once in a while and did stuff before
thinking it through...
But this Picard guy NEVER does anything without HOLDING A MEETING first.


Hey, I get kinda tired of watch them sit around a table and banter...

Picard:  Well, any other option?
Troi  :  I sense... 
Geordi:  Well, through my visor I can see...
Worf  :  ATTACK, KILL THEM! 

Good think TOS is still on Late Nights..

Vern Nelson
Newsgroups: rec.arts.startrek.misc
From: rhballan@eos.ncsu.edu
Subject: Tidbits...
Originator: rhballan@c00505-119rd.eos.ncsu.edu
Reply-To: rhballan@eos.ncsu.edu
Organization: North Carolina State University, Project Eos
Date: Mon, 14 Sep 1992 14:39:16 GMT


I was asked to relay this info from some unlucky
netter who cannot post:


        1)  Patrick Stewart was also in the movie EXCALIBUR and played
                "Shylock" in the BBC presentation of Shakespeare's
                MERCHANT OF VENICE.

        2)  This deal about Riker in the Holodeck -- my thought is this:
                I don't see why this guy has to go to the holodeck:  not
                only does he have an "alien on every planet,"  but, might I
                add, he has also slept with every senior bridge officer on
                OF the Enterprise--Deanna (obviously), Ensign Ro ("Conundrum)
                and Dr. Crusher ("The Host"--when Riker volunteered to host
                the parasite that Beverly fell in love with).
Mary  59048808Q@SERVAX.FIU.EDU
From: HCM100@psuvm.psu.edu
Newsgroups: rec.arts.startrek.misc
Subject: Re: Capt. Pike
Date: 14 Sep 92 18:44:58 GMT
Distribution: rec.arts.startrek.misc
Organization: Penn State University

In article <LWYSE.92Sep13193733@copley.bu.edu>, lwyse@copley.bu.edu (Lonce LaMar
Wyse) says:
>
>Oh knowledgeable Trekies -
>
>I am only a social viewer of Startrek, so I was confused when I saw a
>program today with Capt. Pike as the commander of the starship. Is
>this an old program before Kirk came along? How did Kirk inherit the
>ship from Pike?
>

It was the orignal pilot for the show called "The Cage".
Kirk got the ship because the actor who played Pike died before
filming for the regular series began.

>Pike wasn't a bad captain, the show had all the familliar creative
>writing and humor of the shows with Kirk...
>
>
>                                        - lonce

Didja catch the part where Spock cracks a big old shit-eating grin to the
captain when they stop the funky plants from making that noise?  Hmmmnnnn.

Hans C. Masing | HCM100@PSUVM.psu.edu  | Penn State University MIS Dept |

"What's the matter, you dissentious rogues, that in scratching the poor
itch of your opinion make yourselves scabs?" - Will Shakespeare
Newsgroups: rec.arts.startrek.misc
From: 2429oconnorw@vms.csd.mu.edu
Newsgroups: rec.arts.startrek.misc
Subject: Re: Mutiny on the Holodeck
Date: 10 Sep 92 14:56:59 GMT
Reply-To: 2429oconnorw@vms.csd.mu.edu
Organization: Marquette University - Computer Services
NNTP-Posting-Host: vmsd.csd.mu.edu

In article <1685E97A.REBECCA@YaleVM.YCC.Yale.Edu>, REBECCA@YaleVM.YCC.Yale.Edu (Rebecca Drayer) writes:
>In article <jverho80.715918866@ursa>
>jverho80@ursa.calvin.edu (Jeff Verhoef) writes:
> 
>>I really haven't thought of yet, they just do).  They reconstruct a perfect
>>replica of the bridge and begin war exercises.  Given the fact that the
>>holodeck replicates matter, and in theory can replicate actual
>>instrumentation that works (I'm using the events in "A Matter of Perspective"
>>as a reference), would it be possible for a mutinous crewmember to use
>>the bridge on the holodeck to take over the ship?
> 
>Remember the second season episode, "Elementary, Dear Data"?  Professor
>Moriarity shook up the ship pretty badly from the holodeck, and he was
>just using a lever-like apparatus.  I think a person with a fully simulated
>bridge should be able to kick some butt.

Remember the show when Bark-lie came in contact with that probe
and was given some brains.  He took over the computers and the ship from the
Holodeck.  So it is possible.

Bill
From: andy@syma.sussex.ac.uk (Andy Clews)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.startrek.misc
Subject: Re: Peter Gabriel and/or Anne Lennox in Season 6???
Date: 11 Sep 92 14:26:39 GMT
Organization: University of Sussex
X-Newsreader: Tin 1.1 PL4

deutsch@cs.arizona.edu (Reverend Dave) writes:
: In article <18omrdINNa4m@usenet.INS.CWRU.Edu> bt979@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Jeff Preston) writes:
: >
: >  A friend of mine was watching the EmptyV Music Awards last night
: >and said he thought he heard someone say something about either Peter
: >Gabriel or Anne Lennox being a future guest star on an upcoming 
: >episode of ST:TNG. 

: He was right- they will both be playing Ferengis (sp?).

Would be a nice excuse for Gabriel to dig out the old "Slipperman" costume
that he used to wear in the Lamb Lies Down On Broadway shows about 17 years
ago!
:-)


-- 
Andy Clews, Computing Service, Univ. of Sussex, Brighton BN1 9QJ, England
JANET: andy@uk.ac.sussex.syma      OTHER NETWORKS: andy@syma.sussex.ac.uk
From: mlevis@ringer.cs.utsa.edu (Mike Levis)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.startrek.misc
Subject: Re: Troi and Starfleet
Summary: (End of this thread)
Date: 6 Sep 92 01:37:14 GMT
Organization: University of Texas at San Antonio

In article <1992Sep5.170532.11714@murdoch.acc.Virginia.EDU> ira2p@faraday.clas.Virginia.EDU (Iain Robert Asplin) writes:
>In article <1992Sep5.043313.15337@ringer.cs.utsa.edu> mlevis@ringer.cs.utsa.edu (Mike Levis) writes:
>
>
[...]
>
>Evidence:  She wears 2 1/2 pips and a blue skirt uniform in "Encounter at
>	Farpoint" and is referred to as Lieutenant Commander, sometimes
>	Lieutenant or Commander for short, but is is always understood 
>	that this is for short.

This is not really evidence, since the writers/producers changed
Troi's clothing style because of this episode.  (Troi wore a Starfleet
uniform here, but the writers/producers had her wear civilian clothes
after this for her everyday work).

>Further evidence: in "Future Imperfect," in the false future drawn from 
>	Riker's mind, Troi is wearing a full blue Starfleet uniform and
>	the insignia of a full commander.

This is very good evidence.

>More evidence:  "She carries the rank of Lieutenant Commander," says
>	O'Brien in "Disaster," and then she goes on to command the
>	bridge.  

This is the best evidence.  This alone is enough to convince me.

[...]
>
>As for her dress, as Ship's Counselor she is given more leeway in what
>she wants to wear to emphasize to her patients that whatever they tell
>her is confidential (unless that person's malady is dangerous to the
>ship in which case she can tell the Captain and possibly Riker as well)
>and outside the normal chain of command.  I.E.  she dresses what is
>for her "casual" to better open up her patients.  If she were in
>uniform, their first reactions (which she should hear) would no doubt
>be affected by their Starfleet discipline.

Okay... now I understand.  I must have misunderstood what I have
read.  Instead of "lets make Troi a civilian", the article I read
a few years ago must have said something like "lets make Troi
dress like a civilian".

This "casual clothes to make the patients feel better" reason
seems to fit with what I remember about the article.  Thanks
to all who responded to my question.  I watched the first four
ST:TNG seasons on-and-off, since I did not like the episodes
(as a whole) that much.  But I now enjoy ST:TNG (as a whole)
since the start of the fifth season, so I will have to catch up
by watching the first four seasons completely.  Right now I can
enjoy the sixth season, knowing that Troi is a fellow Starfleet
officer.  Maybe we can see Troi command something again.

Again, thanks to all who responded!

[ End of this thread.  This thread has been assimilated, resistance
is futile.  The thread: it's dead, Jim. ]

-- 
==== Mike Levis   mlevis@ringer.cs.utsa.edu ====
::   ftp ftp.cs.widener.edu (147.31.254.132)  ::  .--.
::   for ``The Simpsons'' information.  Get   :: (OS/2)
:::: ``Simpsons'' FAQL in dir /pub/simpsons ::::  ~--~
From: wherndon@smiley.mitre.org (William Herndon)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.startrek.misc
Subject: Re: Who's got the best beam-out?
Date: 8 Sep 92 16:28:35 GMT
Organization: The MITRE Corporation, McLean, VA

In article <92Aug28.160116.20645@acs.ucalgary.ca> jsbell@acs.ucalgary.ca (Joshua Bell) writes:
>Hmmmm... Out of the Federation sparkle, Q flash, Ferengi swirl,
>(is it just me or does this sound like an order placed in
>10-Forward?), Borg tracer-fade, and anything else we've seen,
>what do people like the best?
>

    There is also the Klingon "sparkle" (fade with lots of little red dots)
    as seen in BOBW-II when Lursa and Bettor (sp?) transport out just before
    Kern breaks down the door.

    Overall though, I like the visual effect of the Borg beamout and the 
    audio effects of both the Borg and Klingon beamouts.

        	        	       	       	       	       	       	       
                                                               - Max

  | William R. Herndon               \ The MITRE Corporation, Dept. G023 |
  | EMail: wherndon@smiley.mitre.org  \    Secure Information Technology |
  | NeXTMail: bill@mephisto.gotham.com \                ( 703 ) 883-6393 |
  |                                                                      |
  |         "When you're cool, the world bores you."   - Calvin          |
From: rawdon@colby.cs.wisc.edu (Michael Rawdon)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.startrek.misc
Subject: Re: Was TOS really that bad? (Re: TOS actors)
Date: 7 Sep 92 22:05:56 GMT
Reply-To: rawdon@colby.cs.wisc.edu
Organization: University of Wisconsin Computer Sciences Dept., Madison, WI

In <1992Sep7.192244.7089@cco.caltech.edu> tlynch@cco.caltech.edu (Timothy W. Lynch) writes:
>Followups set to r.a.s.misc.  Folks, you *really* should know better by now.

I just send 'em wherever people have the Followup-To: line set to.  *I* didn't
want this split...

>rawdon@colby.cs.wisc.edu (Michael Rawdon) writes:
>>In <1992Sep1.185303.1511@bnlux1.bnl.gov> schroede@bnlux1.bnl.gov (gary l. schroeder) writes:
>>>In article <1992Aug30.212359.19951@cs.wisc.edu> rawdon@colby.cs.wisc.edu writes:
>>>>(I think Star Trek II shows a strength of character which is orders of
>>>>magnitude above ANYONE on TNG.)

>>>What do you mean exactly by "strength of character"?  You don't find
>>>that Picard as written has colossal strength of character?  I do.  If he
>>>had anymore than he has now, he might burst!

>>Well, no, I *don't* think that Picard has "colossal strength of character".

>Pardon?  I've heard lots of criticisms from you, Michael, some of them ones 
>I've occasionally had to grudgingly accept, but this is one I simply don't see
>at all.  You don't find Picard a strong character?  Why not?  What sort of
>character *is* he, in that case?

A weak one. :-)

I think there have been an (n where n is a small integer) number of episodes
where he has displayed some color in his character ("Lonely Among Us" comes
to mind), but for the most part I see him more as a walking exposition
device than an honest-to-ghod character.

It's gotten worse and worse over the last two years, too.

-- 
Michael Rawdon				 rawdon@colby.cs.wisc.edu
University of Wisconsin Computer Sciences Department, Madison, WI

"If all mankind minus one were of one opinion, and only one person were of the
contrary opinion, mankind would be no more justified in silencing that one
person than he, if he had the power, would be justified in silencing mankind."
                                                      -John Stuart Mill
Newsgroups: rec.arts.startrek.misc
From: sknkwrks@unlv.edu (Scott Alfter)
Subject: Re: STNG sucks!!!
Organization: Skunk Works Software Co.
Date: Wed, 9 Sep 92 08:30:20 GMT

In article <1992Sep8.125901.25854@monu6.cc.monash.edu.au> darice@yoyo.cc.monash.edu.au (Fred Rice) writes:
>strength department.  *By contrast*, on TNG rarely do they meet up with
>alien lifeforms significantly more powerful than themselves, which
>require any brains at all.  IMNSHO, the TNG crew could easily do their
>jobs with practically no brains at all.  In fact, they probably do.  ;)

You must have never heard of Q...or of the Borg.

  _/_   Scott Alfter                             Internet: sknkwrks@cs.unlv.edu
 / v \  Call the Skunk Works BBS today!                      Fidonet: 1:209/765
(IIe (  TEMPORARILY OFFLINE    Apple II/IBM
 \_^_/  Ask me about SoftDAC--digital audio for your IIe/IIc! Apple II Forever!