HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: mcovingt@aisun3.ai.uga.edu (Michael Covington)
Newsgroups: comp.lang.prolog
Subject: Re: Efficiency
Date: 5 Oct 92 15:09:26 GMT
Organization: AI Program, University of Georgia, Athens

In article <1992Oct5.102142.16636@ecrc.de> micha@ecrc.de writes:
>In article 28120@athena.cs.uga.edu, mcovingt@aisun3.ai.uga.edu (Michael Covington) writes:
>>  - Efficiency of execution
>>       (That's right, if you're using backtracking and unification then
>>        your program will probably run as fast under Prolog as under any
>>        other language.  We once ported a simple Prolog list processing
>>        routine into Pascal as a test, and got a factor-of-14 *slowdown*!)
>
>It is nice that People really do believe in Prolog, but there must be a mistake here.
>The fact that you use unification and backtracking does not make your program
>faster, it may simplify the algorithm, though. 

What I meant was that if the algorithm *needs* unification and backtracking,
then it will probably run as efficiently in Prolog as in any other language,
because Prolog implementors work hard on implementing unification and
backtracking efficiently.



-- 
:- Michael A. Covington     internet mcovingt@uga.cc.uga.edu 
:- Artificial Intelligence Programs       phone 706 542-0359
:- The University of Georgia                fax 706 542-0349
:- Athens, Georgia 30602 U.S.A.          amateur radio N4TMI
From: alberto@cs.umd.edu (Jose Alberto Fernandez R)
Newsgroups: comp.lang.prolog
Subject: Re: Writing portable code.
Date: 28 Sep 92 15:35:06 GMT
Organization: University of Maryland Computer Sc.
In-reply-to: kjell@cse.ucsc.edu's message of 27 Sep 92 08:54:11 GMT

In article <1a3srjINNsgm@darkstar.UCSC.EDU> kjell@cse.ucsc.edu (Kjell Post) writes:

   Let me explain by an example what I'm looking for.  I want to write a
   program that works for both SICStus Prolog and Sepia.  The problem is
   that I need to retract all clauses foo/n when the program is started.
   Now, in SICStus the procedure is called retractall/2, but in Sepia it
   is retract_all/2.  That extra underscore (or absence of it) is really 
   annoying!  So I'd like to hear about efficient and portable tricks to
   write code that works in both languages.

One way to solve this is to use in the code macro commands that
expand to the right thing for each system. Assume that your
distributed source code is in files with extensions `.pli'. 
In your case, the macro definitions look something like this:

	#ifdef SEPIA
	#define RETRACTALL(x) retract_all(x)
	#else
	#define RETRACTALL(x) retractall(x)
	#endif

and in your code you use the macro RETRACTALL(x):

	...:- ..., RETRACTALL(foo(X,Y)), ....

To generate the right code, provide a makefile which contains
the following:

	PROLOG = QUINTUS
	    :
	all: list of source files with .pl extension.
	    :
	    :
	.pli.pl: 
		/lib/cpp -C -P -D$(PROLOG) $*.pli $*.pl

So if you want to generate code for SEPIA you just need to change one
line in the makefile or just do:

	make PROLOG=SEPIA

It would be nice if a facility like this would have been provided as
part of the language. Then we wouldn't need to borrow tools from 'C'.

	Jose Alberto.
--
:/       \ Jose Alberto Fernandez R | INTERNET: alberto@cs.umd.edu
:| o   o | Dept. of Computer Sc.    | BITNET: alberto@cs.umd.edu
:|   ^   | University of Maryland   | UUCP: {...}!mimsy!alberto
:\  \_/  / College Park, MD 20742   |
From: mcovingt@aisun3.ai.uga.edu (Michael Covington)
Newsgroups: comp.lang.prolog
Subject: Re: Graph Traversal
Summary: Why prefer one language to another?
Keywords: Prolog, Graph
Date: 5 Oct 92 03:28:36 GMT
Organization: AI Program, University of Georgia, Athens

In article <gerry.718237883@coral> gerry@coral.cs.jcu.edu.au (Gerry Trinidad) writes:
>In <1605@newsserver.cs.uwindsor.ca> arindam@cs.uwindsor.ca (Arindam Das) writes:
>>Now, In my program i need to do complex traversal of the graph.
>>I being at ease in using Prolog (Quintus Prolog), am using it
>>comfortably and i am finding that i can develop the code pretty
>>quickly.
>
>I think you had just give the reason why you should use Prolog 
>instead of C. It is easier to develop the code.
>
>>However I have to defend the use of Quintus Prolog instead of C.
>
>Aside from the fact it is easier to write in Prolog, the resulting
>code is easier to maintained even by other persons.

This is a special case of the general problem, how to justify use of
programming language X instead of programming language Y.

Things you might appeal to:
  - Ease of expressing the algorithm
       (which reduces program development costs,
        as well as future debugging and modification costs)
  - Efficiency of execution
       (That's right, if you're using backtracking and unification then
        your program will probably run as fast under Prolog as under any
        other language.  We once ported a simple Prolog list processing
        routine into Pascal as a test, and got a factor-of-14 *slowdown*!)
  - Portability
       (Prolog is available for a wide range of architectures and is about
        to have an ISO standard.  Although not as portable as C, Prolog
        is, I would argue, comparable to COBOL and much superior to Pascal
        in portability.)

Argument you might have to refute (my tongue goes in my cheek here):
  "All programs should be written in C for efficiency/portability"
(Translation: "C is the only language I know."  In previous years this
same argument was heard with Fortran, COBOL, or assembly language in
place of C.)
-- 
:- Michael A. Covington     internet mcovingt@uga.cc.uga.edu 
:- Artificial Intelligence Programs       phone 706 542-0359
:- The University of Georgia                fax 706 542-0349
:- Athens, Georgia 30602 U.S.A.          amateur radio N4TMI
Newsgroups: comp.lang.prolog
From: micha@ecrc.de (Micha Meier)
Subject: Re: Writing portable code.
Reply-To: micha@ecrc.de
Organization: European Computer-Industry Research Centre
Date: Tue, 29 Sep 1992 12:22:42 GMT

In article 1a3srjINNsgm@darkstar.UCSC.EDU, kjell@cse.ucsc.edu (Kjell Post) writes:
>
>Let me explain by an example what I'm looking for.  I want to write a
>program that works for both SICStus Prolog and Sepia.  The problem is
>that I need to retract all clauses foo/n when the program is started.
>Now, in SICStus the procedure is called retractall/2, but in Sepia it
>is retract_all/2.

It really depends on what you want to do with the source. If you want
to have *exactly* the same source being compiled into different
Prolog systems and work correctly, there is no straightforward
way to do it, as there is no prolog_dialect/1 flag nor other
portable way to identify the Prolog it is running on. The general
idea is then to take the system which is less idiosyncratic about
failing or undefined queries in a compiled file and write code
which is then ignored by this system but executed by the other.
The case of retractall is easy, but sometimes one needs
to redefine a predicate using itself, which may be quite tricky.

If the requirement is less strict, there are other ways:
	- Most prolog systems have an initialization file, e.g. .sicstusrc,
	  .sepiarc, and you can put into it the compatibility stuff.
	  Normally, since Sepia already has a SICStus compatibility library,
	  all you'd have to do is to create a .sepiarc file and put
	  into it the goal
				:- sicstus.

	- You can have a top-level file which is different for every
	  different Prolog dialect. There one can have all sorts
	  of compatibility stuff and the command to compile the
	  common, 'portable' files. I am using this approach for my
	  suite of test programs, as it is better than to rewrite
	  existing, non-portable programs.

	- You can also wait for the standard to come out... :-)

--Micha

---
Micha Meier			------------------------------------------------
ECRC, Arabellastr. 17		The opinions expressed above are private
D-8000 Munich 81		and may not reflect those of my employer.
micha@ecrc.de, Tel. +49-89-92699-108, Fax  +49-89-92699-170
From: bob@sparkie.nrri.umn.edu (Robert I. Benett)
Newsgroups: comp.lang.prolog
Subject: Logic Programming
Date: 29 Sep 92 02:24:37 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: U of Minnesota, Natural Resources Research Institute

Hello,

I am investigating parallel or distributed processing of Logic programs.

Anyone have any suggestions for reading material??



Bob Bennett
bob@sparkie.nrri.umn.edu
From: arindam@cs.uwindsor.ca (Arindam Das)
Newsgroups: comp.lang.prolog
Subject: Graph Traversal
Keywords: Prolog, Graph
Date: 2 Oct 1992 22:31:50 GMT

Hi !

I am implementing an automated mask layout generator for dynamic CMOS
circuits.

In the first part of my implementation, i am building a two-level logic
synthesizer in prolog. The input to the synthesizer is
the on-set and don't-care-set of minterms for multi-output
functions and the output is a set of connectivity
informations and a minimized switching graph 
which is an interconnection of transistors realizing 
the given functions. 

Now, In my program i need to do complex traversal of the graph.
I being at ease in using Prolog (Quintus Prolog), am using it
comfortably and i am finding that i can develop the code pretty
quickly.

However I have to defend the use of Quintus Prolog instead of C.

Could somebody in the net give me some advice and tips and points
for defending the use of declarative prolog instead of imperative C ?

thanx in advance

-arindam

Newsgroups: comp.lang.prolog
From: ludemann@quintus.com (Peter Ludemann)
Subject: Elegant technologies (was: Graph Traversal)
Keywords: Practical Prolog, Graph, Elegant
Organization: Quintus Corporation, Palo Alto, CA
Date: Mon, 5 Oct 1992 17:45:58 GMT

In article <1605@newsserver.cs.uwindsor.ca>, arindam@cs.uwindsor.ca (Arindam Das) writes:
> Hi !
> 
> I am implementing an automated mask layout generator for dynamic CMOS
> circuits.
> 
>    ...
> 
> However I have to defend the use of Quintus Prolog instead of C.
> 
> Could somebody in the net give me some advice and tips and points
> for defending the use of declarative prolog instead of imperative C ?


You might look in the proceedings of the conference on practical applications
of Prolog (April 1992).  There are lots of concrete examples there; one of the
more general papers is Peter Reintjes's "Elegant Technologies".  I suggest you
try to get a copy of the proceedings; if you can't get it, I have
a copy of Peter's paper (send me a note, specifying whether you want
it in LaTeX, DVI, or PostScript).  

For the conference proceedings, try:
	Al Roth
	PO Box 137
	Blackpool
	Lancashire FY2 0XY, UK
	Tel:	+44-253-58081
	Fax:	+44-253-53811
	Email:	alroth@cix.compulink.co.uk

-- 
	Peter Ludemann  +1-415-813-3800  ludemann@quintus.com
Newsgroups: comp.lang.prolog
From: gupta@nmsu.edu (Gopal Gupta)
Subject: Re: Logic Programming
Organization: NMSU Computer Science
	<1992Sep29.084210.16889@alijku05.edvz.uni-linz.ac.at>
Distribution: usa
Date: Sat, 3 Oct 1992 06:15:55 GMT


Parallel Logic Programming research has been pursued along two
strands: (i) Committed Choice parallel logic programming of which
Parlog, Strand, etc. are examples, and (ii) Implicit 
parallelization of Prolog in which Prolog programs are automatically
executed in parallel. Look at the various logic prog. conf.
proceedings for papers in the latter category.
Another good ref. for (i) is Evan Tick's book published by
MIT Press.

Gopal Gupta
---------------------------------------------------------------------
Department of Computer Science	   email: gupta@nmsu.edu
Box 30001, Dept. 3CS		      	  gupta@compsci.bristol.ac.uk
New Mexico State University	   Ph: +1 (505) 646 6236 
Las Cruces, NM 88003-0001	   Fax: +1 (505) 646 6218
USA
---------------------------------------------------------------------

	 
Newsgroups: comp.lang.prolog,news.answers
From: David.Mao@lambada.oit.unc.edu
Newsgroups: comp.lang.smalltalk
Subject: IPC between Smalltalk and C?
Date: 2 Oct 1992 23:37:00 -0500
Organization: UTexas Mail-to-News Gateway
NNTP-Posting-Host: cs.utexas.edu

We just got ParcPlace Smalltalk v4.1. We are interested in
building some connections between the image and a UNIX process 
which is written in C using pipe method. Does anyone know how to do
that.

Thanks in advance.

Newsgroups: comp.lang.smalltalk
From: golovch@phoenix.rose.utoronto.ca (Gene Golovchinsky)
Subject: Re: mysterious buffering and MVC in Objectworks\Smalltalk version 4.1
Organization: University of Toronto, Department of Industrial Engineering
Date: Mon, 5 Oct 1992 20:23:00 GMT

The reason nothing is displayed when you include the code in a class method
is that nothing is executed after the open message to the window.

Having opened the window, you need to send messages to the view from a
different method.  Normally, you would open the window in an instance
(rather than class) method for your model, and then send messages to the
instance of the model that cause it change its state.  The state changes
would then be passed on to the view. I'm not sure what you meant when you
mentioned that the string "third" is displayed only once...

A TextView with an instance of NoController for its controller will just
display text and ignore the user.  Also, there is another subclass of View
(NotifierView, I think) that does that.  Most of this stuff is documented
in the user's guide/reference.

 2
G
From: paj@uk.co.gec-mrc (Paul Johnson)
Newsgroups: comp.lang.smalltalk
Subject: Re: comparing object-oriented platforms
Date: 6 Oct 92 08:09:29 GMT
Reply-To: paj@uk.co.gec-mrc (Paul Johnson)
Organization: GEC-Marconi Research Centre, Great Baddow, UK

If you want to learn about doing object-oriented programming in C,
take a look at the X Intrinsics library (Xt).  It does it in exactly
the way suggested by an earlier poster.  The resulting library has
single inheritance and meta-classes, but is difficult for the beginner
to understand.  I don't even want to think about MI in such an
environment.

Paul.
-- 
Paul Johnson (paj@gec-mrc.co.uk).	    | Tel: +44 245 73331 ext 3245
--------------------------------------------+----------------------------------
These ideas and others like them can be had | GEC-Marconi Research is not
for $0.02 each from any reputable idealist. | responsible for my opinions
Newsgroups: comp.lang.smalltalk,comp.object,comp.lang.objective-c
From: johnson@m.cs.uiuc.edu (Ralph Johnson)
Subject: Re: MVC shortcommings
Organization: University of Illinois, Dept. of Comp. Sci., Urbana, IL
Date: Wed, 30 Sep 1992 03:08:02 GMT

bouwman@cs.few.eur.nl (Peter Bouwman) writes:

>Are there any references to these MVC versions? Thanks.

Objectworks\Smalltalk Release 4.1 User's Guide, ParcPlace Systems,
999 E. Argues Ave., Sunnyvale CA 94086-4593.   The best way to get
a copy is probably to find someone in the area who uses Smalltalk-80,
though perhaps ParcPlace just sells the manuals.  Their current
manuals are much improved, the first manuals from which you might
be able to learn Smalltalk.  (People like me who learned Smalltalk
on their own in the past know that the manuals left a lot to be
desired.)  Once again, I'm teaching 50 people Smalltalk this semester,
and I'll be able to tell at the end of the semester how much help
the new manuals were.  So far, so good.
From: mike_r@nic.cerf.net (Mike Roberts)
Newsgroups: comp.lang.smalltalk
Subject: Re: Is Smalltalk the language for us?
Date: 28 Sep 92 14:52:28 GMT
Organization: CERFnet

In article <Bv5KJD.IDC@vuse.vanderbilt.edu> cantwell@vuse.vanderbilt.edu (Jeff Cantwell) writes:
>We recently created an application for a Fortune 500 Co. in PPR4. To
>sum up our experience briefly, the most frequent complaints about the
>system were:
>
>1. It takes too much memory.  Our application required 8 mb of RAM to
>run.  Even then we still occasionally ran out of memory. Our platforms
>were about 50% Mac, 45% PC, and 5% Unix.  People with a PC or Mac
>think the 8 mb requirement is ridiculous. Two, maybe even 4 mb is ok,
>but 8 is not. I don't see how you can reduce this requirement by much,
>given that the basic PPR4 system requires 4 mb to run. We did use the
>stripper to reduce the size of our image.
>

With the current PC memory prices (<$40 per Meg) I don't think that this
is a valid critisism. People are used to spending $500 on a single user
licence. $300 for memory dosn't seem such a great price to pay ......

BTW, could you give some indication of the size (lines of code, number
of methods, number of classes) of of your application. A comparison
with the V products would be most interesting.

Mike
MediaShare Inc

Newsgroups: comp.lang.smalltalk
From: bergstro@src.honeywell.com (Pete Bergstrom)
Subject: re: ST/V PM 2.0 upgrade -- overpriced ?
To: comp.lang.smalltalk
Posted-Date: Fri, 2 Oct 92 14: 40:37 CDT
Organization: Honeywell Systems & Research Center
Date: Fri, 2 Oct 1992 19:40:37 GMT
Received-Date: Fri, 2 Oct 92 14: 40:37 CDT

From: marten@feki.toppoint.de (Marten Feldtmann)
>Oh boys, here we are now. The prices for the ST/V-PM 2.0:
>
>Retail price:                       $995
>Upgrade price until October 31, 92: $275
>Upgrade after this date:            $375
>
>Digitalk is entering a new price region ..... perhaps good for Digitalk,
>bad for Smalltalk ....

I just called the sales line and was told that the $275 applies to
everybody (I bought my copy 2.5 weeks ago on September 11, 1992).

I've fired off an unhappy note to the compuserve address asking them
to clarify this situation.

In fact, I'm not mad, I'm pissed.

Pete
From: bushell@fox.nstn.ns.ca (Tom Bushell)
Newsgroups: comp.lang.smalltalk
Subject: Re: ST/VWin 2.0 upgrade - OVERPRICED???
Date: 1 Oct 92 14:55:14 GMT
Organization: NSTN Network Operations Centre, Nova Scotia, Canada

jax@well.sf.ca.us (Jack J. Woehr) writes:


>	I had bought STVDOS and they sent me the upgrade notice for
>STVWin, so I bought it. From STVDOS for $85, which allowed me to 
>deliver several applications under DOS, to STVWin for $195, which
>is the joy of my late-night weekend marathon programming sessions,
>I'm as happy as pig in shit. 

Yeah, I'd be happy too.  However, over the years I've bought ST/VDOS,
ST/V286, and ST/VWIN, spending hundreds of $$$.  But anybody who spends
$85 gets the same upgrade path to VWIN???

Now I'm REALLY pissed!

-Tom Bushell
Newsgroups: comp.lang.smalltalk
From: bergstro@src.honeywell.com (Pete Bergstrom)
Subject: Re: comparing object-oriented platforms
To: comp.lang.smalltalk
Posted-Date: Tue, 6 Oct 92 19: 16:17 CDT
Organization: Honeywell Systems & Research Center
Date: Wed, 7 Oct 1992 00:16:17 GMT
Received-Date: Tue, 6 Oct 92 19: 16:19 CDT

From: nadja@jetsun.weitek.COM (Nadja Adolf)
>>>>Static type checking makes it harder to develop code in limited
>>>>time (prototype doesn't have to be bug free, nor fast, nor complete)
>
>>>I thought about this over the weekend, and realized that one thing really
>>>bothers me here. It is amazing how little of a smalltalk program has to
>>>be present for it to appear to 'work.'
>
>>>One gets the demo up, it appears to work, and the managers/moneyfolk don't
>>>realize that one is nowhere near a product yet... and anticipate a totally
>>>unrealistic schedule...
>
>>Do you mean to say that you don't use prototypes to explore
>>requirements and design tradeoffs?  I'm currently working on a
>
>I said DEMO, not prototype. Do you mean to say that you don't understand
>the difference between a demo and a prototype?

The thread was about prototypes - I assumed *you* confused the two.

>That is my point. I have seen people show off demos as if they had real
>product hidden somewhere underneath. In fact, I heard a joke based on the
>theme.

Then what you've seen are fraudulent displays.  The con artists that
try to get by with this don't often succeed over any reasonable period
of time.  

Newsgroups: comp.lang.smalltalk,comp.lang.eiffel,comp.object
From: richieb@bony1.bony.com (Richard Bielak)
Subject: Re: comparing object-oriented platforms
Organization: multi-cellular
Date: Mon, 5 Oct 92 20:25:26 GMT

In article <ken8Xe_00awRQ5OHYd@andrew.cmu.edu> Stefan Monnier <osoelgaultier+@CMU.EDU> writes:

[...]
>
>
>Getting a working application in a limited time is not just 
>done for pleasure: customer generally wants to see a working 
>prototype of the application to be sure it can be done, to see how
>it's gonna work and so on.
>Static type checking makes it harder to develop code in limited
>time (prototype doesn't have to be bug free, nor fast, nor complete)
>
>What is needed is a language that permits you to write 'free code'
>(without too much verification done by the language) to start 
>fast and get a working prototype in very short time. And then
>add type constraints (etc...) to get to a 'bug-free' (grin) stable
>application.
>

I strongly disagree with the above philosophy. I think that static
type checking helps you to build programs faster, because the compiler
catches all those stupid errors right at the start.

I also don't believe that  "prototype now, debug later"  is a good
approach to writing software. 

As a book on time management said: 

   "If you don't have time to do it right,
       when will you have time to do it over."


...richie



-- 
* Richie Bielak   (212)-815-3072   |                                          *
* Internet:       richieb@bony.com | Rule #1: Don't sweat the small stuff.    *
* Bang {uupsi,uunet}!bony1!richieb | Rule #2: It's all small stuff.           *
*    - Strictly my opinions -      |                                          *
Newsgroups: comp.lang.smalltalk
From: sehyo@netcom.com (Sehyo Chang)
Subject: silly postings
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services  (408 241-9760 guest) 
Distribution: usa
Date: Wed, 30 Sep 1992 02:34:35 GMT

These posting about Smalltalk vs. Eiffel or Smalltalk vs. C++
is getting pretty silly especially with personal attacks. 
I don't want this group to be degenerated like 'talk.misc.politics'

Newsgroups: comp.lang.smalltalk
From: mjb@netcom.com (Martin Brown)
Subject: FYI: October ST meeting on irc
Date: Tue, 29 Sep 92 07:48:14 GMT
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services  (408 241-9760 guest) 


***************************

ANNOUNCING

Meeting of Smalltalk Users

------

When: Wednesday, October 7, 1992      

Time: 10:00am PDT, (Pacific **DAYLIGHT** Time, U.S.A.)  

Where: on the Internet Relay Chat (irc)

IRC Channel: #programST        

Channel Topic: programming in Smalltalk 

***************************

This time should allow greater participation from European ST users.

-- 

                                   - mjb -

                                mjb@netcom.com

Newsgroups: comp.lang.smalltalk
From: golovch@phoenix.rose.utoronto.ca (Gene Golovchinsky)
Subject: dynamically dropping views in PPST4.1
Summary: I need to release a view as the program runs
Keywords: release view dynamic
Organization: University of Toronto, Department of Industrial Engineering
Date: Sun, 4 Oct 1992 15:10:50 GMT

Hi!

I have a ComposedView that contains (at startup) a TextView.  As the
program runs, other (transparrent, overlapping) views get added to the
ComposedView.  Under certain circumstances (user-controlled) I would 
like to release some of these newly added views.  I tried sending a
#release message to the view itself and to its wrapper, but in both
cases I get an error when the SystemController decides to ask the newly
deleted view if it wants control. Although the view disappears from the
display and is uncoupled from its model, for some reason the System
Controller still finds it. 

Does anyone know what the proper way to dump a view (without getting rid
of all its sibblings and the parent view) is?  My algorithm worked under
4.0, but apparently ParPlace changed some low-level controller-view 
protocols.

Thanks in advance,

 2
G
From: alistair@mits.com.au
Newsgroups: comp.lang.smalltalk
Subject: SPICE from Synergistic Solutions?
Date: 30 Sep 92 01:29:02 GMT
Nntp-Posting-User: alistair

I recently read about a library called SPICE, from Synergistic
Solutions, which provides Smalltalk with access to NetBIOS and DECnet
communications and SQL servers.  Does anyone know if this is available
for Smalltalk V/Windows, and where I can get more information.

Thanks,

Alistair Grant

Internet:     alistair@mits.com.au
Alternate:    alistair%mits.com.au@ucsvc.ucs.unimelb.edu.au