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Date:         Sun, 8 Nov 1992 09:55:25 PST
              <PSYCGRAD@UOTTAWA.BITNET>
From:         "(Stephanie Fishkin)" <fishkin@SCF.USC.EDU>
Subject:      Re: All the Preferental Tx Talk...
              "@VM.USC.EDU:PSYCGRAD@UOTTAWA.BITNET" at Nov 7, 92 5:24 pm

OK, maybe it's just the researcher in me, but all this talk on the
various aspects of preferential treatment seems to me to warrent some
sort of investigations of the topic -- or more if they've already been
done (assuming, of course, they were done correctly the first time).

I think this might be an excellent area of investigation for someone
wondering what area they should do research in.  OR, perhaps we could
create a study as a group psycgrad project!  Maybe someone could
sumarize what's been said to date and then people could take areas they
are interested in studying and create a study!  For example, there's been
some talk about how when you put your initials down people think that
you are male;  I know that as a pre-grad school RA I did some coding for
a prof investigating this phenomena and sure enough she did find that
people thought of male names before female ones.  Maybe there is
another way to study this?

I am presently doing some class work in the area of managing a diverse
workforce, and the training books and articles I'm reading all say that
affirmative action is useless and unecessary;  your comments suggest
otherwise. Perceptions of afirm. action would be another interesting
area.

... Just thought I'd get your minds clicking in response to your very
interesting comments on the topic.

(And you thought social psych was useless!...)

SF

************************************************************************
In the beginning there was data.  The data was without form and null,
and darkness was upon the face of the console; and the Sprit of IBM was
moving over the face of the market.  And DEC said "let there be
registers"; and there were registers.  And DEC saw that they carried;
and DEC separated the data from the instructions.  DEC called the data
Stack and the Instructions they called Code...

Stephanie Fishkin
fishkin@usc.edu
***********************************************************************
From: KMORGAN@WHEATNMA.BITNET
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.psycgrad
Subject: Re: feminists
Date: 12 Nov 92 14:23:00 GMT
              <PSYCGRAD@UOTTAWA.BITNET>
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Tim,

        You still haven't answered ONE of my questions, and
that was, what is your definition of "feminists" in these
remarks regarding "bitter, angry, and humorless?"
        Thanks!
        --Kathy Morgan
        kmorgan@wheatnma.bitnet
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Date:         Wed, 4 Nov 1992 11:57:26 -0700
              <PSYCGRAD@UOTTAWA.BITNET>
From:         irremediable lascivious galivanter <MONCRIET@CGSVAX.CLAREMONT.EDU>
Subject:      Attn psycgradders at UT Austin

Hello psychgradders at UT Austin!

	I am using William Swann's self-verification theory for my masters
and possibly dissertation, and I have noticed some interesting things
besides his unique writing style (I'm a fan!!).  Can anyone tell
me why he separates males and females in the studies, using mostly
males and never remarking on gender differences?  I can certainly understand
if he isn't interested in gender diffs, since some people are not, but
I was wondering if there was some unusual recruitment policy for
subjects that separated the males and females.  It seem important to me
that this distintion is not made.

	Also, do you like the department down there?  I may be reapplying
(lack of funding up here) and it is definitely a possibility...
(excuse the garbage in this file, I didn't edit it and I got mail...)


Thanks!

Tracy Moncrief
cgsvax.claremont.edu

Claremont Graduate School
Claremont, CA





*******************************************************************************
[about Freud]
	...his fate was to agitate the sleep of mankind."
******************************************************************************
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Newsgroups: bit.listserv.psycgrad
Date:         Tue, 10 Nov 1992 13:25:24 EST
              <PSYCGRAD@UOTTAWA.BITNET>
From:         jlbugg@UCCS.EDU
Subject:      RE: More on gender imbalance

Or, maybe that many women researchers choose topics that are interesting
and important to women that male reviewers, grant gods, etc. don't find
worthy?

$0.04 from Jennifer in CO.
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Date:         Fri, 13 Nov 1992 10:10:00 EDT
              <PSYCGRAD@UOTTAWA.BITNET>
From:         KMORGAN@WHEATNMA.BITNET
Subject:      Re: feminists

Okay Tim.....I think I understand.  No, of course I would not
say that you cannot play if you can't define your terms. ( I
just hope we all don't chose to do science that way!)

        I _can_ chose personally not to attend to comments
that are made in jest, though, in what I considered to be a
serious discussion.
        And may I say I think the humor in this case has been
in poor taste......
        --Kathy Morgan
        kmorgan@wheatnma.bitnet
From: jlbugg@UCCS.EDU
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.psycgrad
Subject: RE: Help with Hippocampi
Date: 12 Nov 92 17:13:06 GMT
              <PSYCGRAD@UOTTAWA.BITNET>
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU

Kathy, it's my forte.  I do stress, memory, aging and the hippocampus,
particularly the CA3 region.  As far as stress goes, the hippocampus is
important because there are more glucocorticoid receptors in the hipp.
than anywhere else.  Stress can cause damage.  How deep do you want to
get?  You can send it personal.  I'm at happy... jlbugg.uccs.edu.
Jennifer
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Date:         Fri, 13 Nov 1992 10:06:00 EDT
              <PSYCGRAD@UOTTAWA.BITNET>
From:         KMORGAN@WHEATNMA.BITNET
Subject:      Re: Sexism, etc.

Rick,

        Sincere thanks for clarifying your arguments!   I
agree with you about what we might call "extremists" in
either position.  They do serve a useful purpose, I think, in
that they at least get others riled enough to talk about the
issues--but they can also be very destructive to those same
issues.
        (I still disagree with you about who (men or women)
primarily supports "Chippendales" and "Playgirl", and would
also argue that the surface content differs greatly between
these two and publications like "Hustler."  However, I too am
a first amendment rights advocate.)
        You never told me whether or not you complained about
that out-of-line prof at U of M!
        --Kathy Morgan
        kmorgan@wheatnma.bitnet
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Via:        UK.AC.ST-AND;  6 NOV 92 10:13:55 GMT
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.psycgrad
Date:         Fri, 6 Nov 1992 10:12:03 GMT
              <PSYCGRAD@UOTTAWA.BITNET>
From:         "(Julie Marie Williams)" <jmw1@ST-ANDREWS.AC.UK>
Subject:      Re: Preferential treatment

On November 5th, Kathy writes:

>I have been advised by women mentors to use my initials only on
>publications submitted for review or on my vita, for similar reasons.

Just an observation, here:  I have, for many years, signed myself as J.
Williams, a tradition I carried over into my postgrad. career.  Hence I
sign this name to any abstracts etc as well as to correspondence.  The
replies I get are quite amazing - mostly I am referred to as "Dr" or "Mr"
if any title is added at all!
I'm not really sure HOW I expect people to reply, though, really.  I
myself find it quite a dilemma when writing to someone who I only know by
initials.  Writing "Dear F. Bloggs" hardly sounds friendly, now does it?
Does anyone have any suggestions?

Julian
St Andrews
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Date:         Sat, 7 Nov 1992 18:54:00 EDT
              <PSYCGRAD@UOTTAWA.BITNET>
From:         KMORGAN@WHEATNMA.BITNET
Subject:      Re: Preferential treatment

 >You can only hide behind your initials so long.

EXACTLY!  And it is after you've been let into the gate (a bit like
the Trojan horse) that you can let your hair down, use your name,
and let the good old boys know that the game is going to change.
        But unless you get in the door, nothing is going to change.
        --Kathy Morgan
        kmorgan@wheatnma.bitnet
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Date:         Tue, 10 Nov 1992 12:02:53 -0500
              <PSYCGRAD@UOTTAWA.BITNET>
From:         20SSMITH@GALLUA.BITNET
Subject:      Anita Hill

Ah...finally something caught my attention just by the subject post
(something to the effect of "don't do it Jesse")  I thought this would
be something light and humorous but lo and behold it was a serious
issue re: Anita Hill.  Hard to believe its been a year since that
whole scene.  I don't know what the other postings on the topic
indicated but I can see how it would be pretty difficult to bring
charges of sexual harrassment against Thomas when he was the head
honcho of EEOC.  That would have been like telling Rodney King to
dial 911.  I can remember a similar situation when I was in grade
school.  My dear, responsible parents had prepared me to face the
cold cruel reality of racism and instructed me on how I was to deal
with the situation the day someone referred to me by the age old
racial slur applied to Blacks and known to all...I was instructed to
"tell the teacher" even those were fighting words I was supposed to
"tell the teacher"...well sure enough the day came...I was in the
second grade (geez, its disgusting now that I think back on it...
such a painful memory apparently repressed) and guess whose mouth
those words fell out of...YOU GOT IT...the teacher...I distinctly
remember the confusion that set in for the rest of the day and
the upset I experienced for days before my mother finally got it
out of me exactly what had happened...and then there was really
hell to pay because my parents are highly educated, proactive and
in this case REACTIVE people...but that's another posting in
itself...The year was 1963 but when the Hill-Thomas thing broke
I remembered it as if it were yesterday.

Sybil
From: RBORGNIS@MIAMIU.BITNET (Ramie Borgnis)
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.psycgrad
Subject: Re: Help with Hippocampi
Date: 12 Nov 92 19:31:33 GMT
              <PSYCGRAD@UOTTAWA.BITNET>
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU


  I've been working with the hippocampus for three years and I can tell
you that I've only heard smatterings of findings on anything but learning
and memory.
  However, here's a finding discovered by my advisor, Stephen Berry.  It
has something to do with arousal or motivation of the animal:
The rabbit hippocampus has an endogenous rhythm, in which the low frequencies
are called "theta rhythm" (approx 2-8 Hz). While a post-doc at Richard
Thompson's lab at UC Irvine, Dr. Berry found that the higher the proportion
of theta in the rabbit, the faster the rabbit learns. The correlation
was an amazing r=.87.  In other words, A PREEXISTING BRAIN STATE can predict
with an amazing amount of accuracy the learning rate of the animal.
(Berry, S.D. and Thompson, R.F. (1978) Prediction of learning rate from the
hippocampal electroencephalogram. Science, 200, 1298-1300)
   So is this a measure of "intelligence" (if a rabbit can have intelligence)
or a measure of arousal or motivation?
   Subsequent studies have pointed toward the arousal hypothesis.  For
example, when rabbits are water deprived for 22 hours, their proportion
of theta nearly doubles, as does their learing rate (using rabbit nictitating
membrane conditioning) (Berry, S.D. & Swain, R.A. (1989) Water Deprivation
optimizes hippocampal activity and facilitates nictitating membrane
conditioning. Behavioral Neuroscience, 103, 71-76)  We assumed that
a water deprived animal was highly aroused and subsequently very "ready
to learn."
   My master's thesis preexposed the animals to conditioning stimuli
(i.e. latent inhibition paradigm), thereby reducing the salience (and/or
condition-ability) of the conditioned stimulus.  I measured proportion
of theta before and after preexposure and found that this proportion
changed significantly (indicating a lower proportion of theta) following
preexposure.  (Presented at Society for Neuroscience Conf. and published
in the Abstracts, Berry, S.D., Borgnis, R.L.,& Dreshfield, L.J. Conditioning
stimulus preexposure modifies pretraining hippocampal activity, #146.1
(1992)).
   This latest finding supported the idea that theta reflects the arousal
state of the animal.  Specifically, preexposure decreases arousal level
(reflected in subsequent learning rate) which decreases the proportion
of theta...or is it the other way around???

  I hope this has been some help!  If you want to know more, email me
at RBORGNIS@MIAMIU.
Ramie Borgnis
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Date:         Mon, 9 Nov 1992 13:57:04 EST
              <PSYCGRAD@UOTTAWA.BITNET>
From:         "Matthew Simpson" <054340@UOTTAWA.BITNET>
Subject:      Attenuating the unintended insult (flame)

Someone recently requested that the differentiation between
using the "you" vs. the impersonal pronoun be re-emphasized.

The idea goes like this.  It is far better and less insulting
to an audience when strong statements are placed against some
impersonal object.  If I want to say that an idea is stupid,
it is better that I focus on saying that the *idea* is stupid,
rather than saying that the person who said the idea is stupid.

I can do this by attaching the concept of "someone" to the person
who said the idea.  Rather than say "according to Matthew...this idea
is stupid," one would use "according to someone... this idea is stupid."

Compare this, (in response to Matthew) "Your idea is stupid!"
with (in response to Someone) "That idea is stupid!"

By making the jump away from the person, the attack is better on
target, less damaging to your fellow peers, and more apt to receive
a more-thought-out response.

(To the person who requested this piece, is this okay?)
Have fun!

Also, please do not bluntly say "x is stupid."  I was using that
phrase as an exemplar of how the extreme can look.

O======================================================================O
 | _  l  _  * Matthew Simpson          * BITNET:                      |
 |  \_l_/   * School of Psychology     * 054340@uottawa.bitnet        |
 |    l     * 145 Jean Jacques Lussier * INTERNET:                    |
 |    l     * Ottawa, Ontario K1N 8P5  * 054340@acadvm1.uottawa.ca    |
O======================================================================O
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Date:         Mon, 9 Nov 1992 11:33:52 EST
              <PSYCGRAD@UOTTAWA.BITNET>
From:         "(Margaret Joppa)" <joppa@PSYCH.PURDUE.EDU>
Subject:      Re: Preferential treatment

Tim,
Aren't you being a little defensive here?  No one is blaming ALL MEN for
the problems women sometimes experience in academia.  Take a pill.
M. Joppa
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Date:         Wed, 11 Nov 1992 11:04:52 EST
              <PSYCGRAD@UOTTAWA.BITNET>
From:         "Matthew Simpson" <054340@UOTTAWA.BITNET>
Subject:      Announcement: Special Editions of the Digest

    === ANNOUNCEMENT: SPECIAL EDITIONS OF THE PSYCGRAD DIGEST ===

There will be some special editions of The PSYCGRAD Digest compiled
as part of a limited short-term project.  These editions will be
compiled from the archives of past PSYCGRAD postings, and will focus
on special topics of interest.

REQUESTS: If you have any requests for topics to be compiled into these
special editions, please send them to Matthew Simpson.  A list of requests
is being compiled now.  Please do not send the request to PSYCGRAD (ie.
please do not merely use the reply function).  Send to the address below.

O======================================================================O
 | _  l  _  * Matthew Simpson          * BITNET:                      |
 |  \_l_/   * School of Psychology     * 054340@uottawa.bitnet        |
 |    l     * 145 Jean Jacques Lussier * INTERNET:                    |
 |    l     * Ottawa, Ontario K1N 8P5  * 054340@acadvm1.uottawa.ca    |
O======================================================================O
From: KMORGAN@WHEATNMA.BITNET
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.psycgrad
Subject: Re: Preferential treatment
Date: 5 Nov 92 21:13:00 GMT
              <PSYCGRAD@UOTTAWA.BITNET>
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 On 5 November, Tim Tumlin writes:

>Re pay statistics, once again: I have no doubt that women are paid
>less than man in many if not almost all instances. However, I am
>suspicious of many statistics that don't seem to account for the
>complex variables involved in determining the true status of women
>and men in this matter. It simply smacks of unclear and imprecise
>thinking and does not serve the cause of fair play.


        Okay--you asked for it.  More studies to this effect:

Bergmann, 1982:  male high school dropouts in 1979 had higher
average salaries ($14,800) than did female college graduates
($13,300).

Sutter and Miller (1973).  Examined census data for men and women
aged 30-44.  Adjusted for seniority, education, experience, job
level, and amount worked in a year.  Still, women in this age
bracket earned 38% less than men (a salary gap of about $3,000).
Similar studies with these controls yeilded similar findings (See
Featherman and Howard, 1976;  Norwood, 1982).

>Finally, why is it all the studies cited were about slights to
>women?  What about other groups?

        Because this discussion STARTED as a discussion of gender
equity in psychology graduate programs, for cryin' out loud!!!


>What about the idea of fairness as a principle rather than just the
>wrongs done to one's own group?

        Yea, I agree!  It's even WORSE to be a black or hispanic
woman.  What are you trying to get at here?  We were talking about
sex and gender, I thought.  Of course, there are a veritable
plethora of groups that receive inequitable treatment in this
country.  I'm happy to find you some stats on these topics, too.

>I haven't seen much about justice and fairness but I've read a good
>deal from members of specific groups campaigning for their own
>interests.

        Present company excepted, of course!  ;)

--Kathy Morgan
kmorgan@wheatnma.bitnet
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Date:         Mon, 9 Nov 1992 12:16:00 CST
              <PSYCGRAD@UOTTAWA.BITNET>
From:         JCSP@KSUVM.BITNET
Subject:      preferential treatment

Before I get sent away to a "camp" to reprogram my thinking (no, thank you
very much), I think we need to consider past situations and the larger picture.
Once upon a time...
"deals" were made by the powerful in groups which had specific membership
rules (has it been so long that we've forgotten men's clubs?).  My concern
for people (women & males who don't like sports--yes, I do know some, too, Tim)
of the future is that this is moving into locker rooms.  Of course, as with
real locker rooms, we women are entitled to _separate but equal_
facilities, aren't we?
This issue is not divorced from the "shall I use my initials to publish"
debate.  I wonder if the proportion of male and female editors and reviewers is
comparable to the number of men and women working to publish? To move ahead
women will not be served if "locker room" environments become the places
where important decisions are made.  Incidently, _I_ retain an open mind
and do not become strident over issues where there is a lot of variability
involved.
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Date:         Tue, 10 Nov 1992 13:41:56 MST
              <PSYCGRAD@UOTTAWA.BITNET>
From:         mmartin@ACS.UCALGARY.CA
Subject:      Re: Preferential treatment
              "G9226406@SSCVA

Tammy,

You can go ahead and use JERK all you want, because if the tag
fits, it fits.  Just don't use it to the "good old boy's" faces or
you might not get hired.

Jesse
--
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Date:         Wed, 11 Nov 1992 12:14:50 EST
              <PSYCGRAD@UOTTAWA.BITNET>
From:         "(Margaret Joppa)" <joppa@PSYCH.PURDUE.EDU>
Subject:      Re: Sexism and language a la Preferential T

If I decide to not "become pregnant and give birth to young" (Webster)
am I not a female???
M. Joppa
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Subject: (no subject given)
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.psycgrad
Date:         Tue, 10 Nov 1992 17:20:20 EST
              <PSYCGRAD@UOTTAWA.BITNET>
From:         "Matthew Simpson" <054340@UOTTAWA.BITNET>
              10 Nov 1992 16:53:53 EST from <gerri@WATSON.IBM.COM>

On Tue, 10 Nov 1992 16:53:53 EST Gerri Oppedisano (8-863-7225) said:
>>     I usually call them jerks, Tammy.
>
>It'd probably be better to just call their ideas jerks, instead of them
>personally. Let me say that I find the Good Old Boy Concept a positively
>jerky one!

If your not on PSYCGRAD, you can call them jerks, for all I care.
On PSYCGRAD, please address the ideas or the concept.
Just a point of clarification.

Are we preaching to the converted?

O======================================================================O
 | _  l  _  * Matthew Simpson          * BITNET:                      |
 |  \_l_/   * School of Psychology     * 054340@uottawa.bitnet        |
 |    l     * 145 Jean Jacques Lussier * INTERNET:                    |
 |    l     * Ottawa, Ontario K1N 8P5  * 054340@acadvm1.uottawa.ca    |
O======================================================================O
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From: hss1@jane.uh.edu (RIMKUS)
Subject: social workers
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41    
Organization: University of Houston
Date: Thu, 5 Nov 1992 01:39:00 GMT

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Date:         Mon, 9 Nov 1992 19:49:48 EST
              <PSYCGRAD@UOTTAWA.BITNET>
From:         jlbugg@UCCS.EDU
Subject:      RE: More on gender imbalance

Tor,

intended to reply today anway on this topic, but your comment reminded me...
1-2 years ago in Scientific American (I think) is a study done on females
(excuse typos), males out publish females 2:1.  The study looked at blind
reviews of work and females were still underpublished 2:1.  OH MY GOSH!!
They looked at women who were married or had kids to see if it corresponded to
lower publication rates and it was not significant; they found no significant
effects with women who were in ANY sort of caretaking role (in terms of
relationships, i.e., had boyfriends/girlfriends).

I think we absolutely need to know WHY.  Given that probably none of us
would even begin to consider the fact that we are not as academically
capable as our male colleagues, there must be some explanation - and that
explanation will tell us more than demographic information for our own
careers... it will give us a more general picture of how sexism works
and what it's function has been.

Jennifer Bugg (thought I'd add my last name on this one; I consider
myself to be an expert on name discrimination.)