From: kellmeye@ux1.cso.uiuc.edu (kellmeyer steven l)
Subject: Re: Male Choice Revisited
Organization: University of Illinois at Urbana
Date: Sat, 14 Nov 1992 06:27:23 GMT

bmc@mayo.edu (Bruce Cameron) writes:

>In article <BxMw2q.Ivw@ux1.cso.uiuc.edu>, kellmeye@ux1.cso.uiuc.edu (kellmeyer steven l) writes:
>|> bmc@mayo.edu (Bruce Cameron) writes:
>|> 
>|> >In article <BxI4EI.11G@ux1.cso.uiuc.edu>, kellmeye@ux1.cso.uiuc.edu (kellmeyer steven l) writes:
>|> 
>|> >|> 
>|> >|> I am arguing that abortion should NEVER be paid for by the state or
>|> >|> anyone else.  It should be made illegal.  Similarly, men should NEVER 
>|> >|> "be let off the hook".  Any man who has sex is as responsible for the
>|> >|> child conceived as the woman, and neither should be allowed to kill/abandon
>					 ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>|> >|> that child simply because s/he is inconvenient to their plans for the
>       ^^^^^^^^^^ 
>|> >|> future.  Children are not sacrifices to the gods of expediency, despite
>|> >|> the fact that at least 3.2 million people every year think they are.
>|> >|> 
>|> 
>|> >Since you are arguing that the parents of a fetus/child be required by
>|> >the state to care for that child regardless of the expedience. Then,
>|> >should the state provide for such services as adoption, social services,
>|> >etc (after all these services allow for parents to abdicate some or all
>|> >of their resposibility to the child)?
>|> 
>|> The child should not be killed, in utero or ex utero.  Period. 
>|> Adoption doesn't result in the child's death, therefore it's perfectly
>   ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>|> acceptable.  If the mother carries the child to term, SHE certainly hasn't
>   ^^^^^^^^^^^
>|> abdicated responsibility.  Has the father?  Depends on where he's at.
>|> If he isn't helping to take care of his lover and their unborn child,
>|> then, yes, he's abdicated his responsibility.  
>|> 


>In the first paragraph, you state that death and abandonment are
>unacceptable and neither parent should be allowed to have those
>options. How do you reconcile this with the statement in your 
>second paragraph, that adoption is acceptable? Haven't the
>parents abandoned the child; after all they have no idea or control of the
>type of care the child will receive.

When ANY two people get together to have a child, they have no idea or
control of the type of care the child will receive.  That's what life is
like.  Adoption assumes that the child is being _adopted_ not abandoned.
It assumes that the child is going into a reasonably safe environment, as
safe as anything this world permits.   Adoption  !=  abandonment.

>-- 
>--Bruce

>"Truth is ultimately a philosophical concept,...,
> and standards of truth are adequate for practical
> purposes if they are substantially more reliable 
> then the system undergoing evaluation"
>				C. E. Metz
>---------------------------------------------------
>bmc@mayo.edu	(507) 284-3288	fax: (507) 284-9623
>Mayo Foundation, 200 1st St SW,	Rochester MN 55905
>---------------------------------------------------
>#include <std/disclaimer>             ARS -- WD9CKW

Steve Kellmeyer
-- 

Steve Kellmeyer 
kellmeye@ux1.cso.uiuc.edu
Newsgroups: talk.abortion