From: maj1@Ra.MsState.Edu (Mark "Beren" Jamison)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
Subject: Re: Rickey Henderson v Nolan Ryan -- Stat-head call to arms!
Keywords: Lundy.  *Joe* Lundy.
Date: 16 Apr 92 12:12:11 GMT
Organization: Mississippi State University

zuhars@madrone.eecs.ucdavis.edu (Gary Avenue Of Shattered Skulls Huckabay) writes:

>(Kevin Lund'y') writes:
>>> you'd capture the opinion of a lot of anti-Rickey, pro-Ryan people...not
>>> that I'm accusing anyone on the net of being racist, but you bet there
>>> were a lot of racist Americans who just loved it when the press deified
>>> Ryan and vilified Rickey.
>>
>>I really can't believe this!  If this is a RELATED NOTE and you aren't  
>>accusing anyone on the net of being racist -- Why the hell do you mention  
>>it when comparing Rickey and Ryan as players?!?  Do you really have to  
>>bring up race?  Don't try to mess with the issue and bring unrelated  
>>topics in.

>Sorry, Kevin, but the issue of race, like it or not, is DEFINITELY an
>issue when it comes to Ryan vs. Henderson.

While it may be an Issue Gary, the media is more to blame than anything
else.. And great or not Rickey along with his pal Jose probabbly own the
record for stupid statement made in a carreer.. Oh and I'd rather have Bonds
in left :-)


>Nolan Ryan is a white hero.  A true TWG.  He's humble, he's friendly
>and skillful with the media, and his exploits have been portrayed,
>over the past five years or so, in an extremely favorable light.

Yes?? And what?? Michael Jordon is friendly and skillful with the media,
Over the past six years or so he's been portrayed by the media in a favorable
light.. There are lot's of athlete's that are portrayed as "great guys"
a lot are white and some are black, don't suppose it was upbringing do you??


>Why?

>Part of the answer is because he's WHITE, whether you like it or not.
>His face will sell more razors than Rickey's will.  Nolan's public
>persona is that of a humble, hard-working, good-ole-boy white man.

>Rickey is portrayed as a malingerer, a whiner, and cocky.  Part of the
>reason for this is his background is different than Ryan's.  He
>learned to communicate in a black inner city, rather than white farm
>country.  Like or not, the communication patterns are different in
>those two areas, and to white bread America, Rickey's is more
>intimidating, and more accusatory.

Right, I agree 100% , but so how is that different from how they are 
portrayed?? If Ryan was black and had grown up the same way, I'm fairly
sure that he would be just as popular, maybe even more so, because 
advertisers know where kid's spend there money, and a guy who's been pitching
for over 20 years would sell quite a bit of shoes :-)


>No one like the be called racist.  But racism is built into the
>system.

Ok. I have to agree with that.. But The original poster didn't blame the 
system, he implicitly said that everyone who was flameing him about
his "Rickey is Twice as Good as Nolan" statement was racist..

>As for the comparison - IMHO, there's no comparison.  Rickey's the guy
>I want on my team.  Lifetime .404 OBP, and .440 SLG, while playing in
>tough hitter's parks.  In a neutral park, probably .415 and .460.  Oh
>yeah, and he steals a base or 1300.  For probably the equivalent of
>200 extra runs over his career when its over.  And he plays good
>defense - probably worth 130 runs over league average when his career
>is over.

I don't know, a lot of his OBP comes from walks and that doesn't really
change in one park or another.. Do you have some evidence of your idea
that he'd hit .415 and .460 somewhere else neutral?? I wan't to
know what his sb% is,  I remember laughing my head off when he made his
"I'm the greatest today" speech because he got thrown out at least once 
and was picked off in that game making him a 33% sb% that day..
His defense is like the rest of the A's underated but not Outstanding..


>Rickey has been the best offensive player of the past ten years.

No real debate here, as long as you mean to take that as a lump sum..
Because other wise I've got some players that I think were better than he was
on a year by year basis..


>Ryan has been at his peak late in his career.  But face it - the guys
>has never been as good as you'd like to think.  5500 Ks are cute.
>But 2600+ walks are ugly.  His ERA is about 10% better than league
>average over his career.

His ERA is 10% better than league average over his career. Why doesn't
this impress you?? If his career was the same length as Rickey's then yeah
it's not that impressive, but he's been around twice that long and still
has that ERA 10% better, and had he had players like Rickey for offensive
backup God knows what he'd be like..


>Rickey in a walk.  Get it?  A WALK?  Hee Hee Hee...
>(You see, Rickey walks a lot, and Nolan gives up a lot of walks...)

I agree with you're picking Rickey over Nolan but hardly see it as a 
walk.. I have to admit though the statement was rather witty until
you decided to explain it..
--
______________________________________________________________________________
                       Still looking for Luthien
maj1@ra.msstate.edu                                  maj1@beren.b17a.ingr.com
______________________________________________________________________________
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball