HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: makowsky@enuxhb.eas.asu.edu (David Makowsky)
Subject: Re: A pragmatic view of the deportation
Reply-To: makowsky@enuxhb.eas.asu.edu (David Makowsky)
Organization: Arizona State University, Tempe AZ
Date: Sun, 27 Dec 1992 21:53:52 GMT

In article <1992Dec27.171437.4603@ncsu.edu> hernlem@chess.ncsu.EDU (Brad Hernlem) writes:

# In article <1992Dec26.200043.4543@nysernet.org>, astein@nysernet.org
# (Alan Stein) writes:

# > hernlem@chess.ncsu.EDU (Brad Hernlem) writes:
 
# > >As I said before, (from BBC reports) most of the Palestinian deportees
# > >are well-educated people. They are professionals in such areas as
# > >teaching, medicine, law, and engineering. These are examples of people
# > >who can help build a Palestinian country. Deporting them only
# > >exacerbates your false concern.
 
# > Wouldn't it be wonderful if they used their professional schools to
# > help their own people rather than to kill Jews?
 
# According to reports that I have heard, even Rabin's government is not
# claiming that these men have killed anyone. Are you?

	That did not answer his point.  However, they were members of an
organization whose raison de etre is to kill.
--
	There are three types of people in the world.  Those that are good
at math and those that are not.

makowsky@enuxhb.eas.asu.edu
Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast
From: sera@zuma.UUCP (Serdar Argic)
Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast,talk.politics.soviet,soc.culture.greek,soc.culture.europe,soc.history,soc.culture.soviet,soc.culture.turkish
Followup-To: soc.culture.turkish
Subject: ..constitute crimes of an atrocity inconceivable and without parallel..
Date: Sat, 02 Jan 93 13:42:30 EST
Reply-To: sera@zuma.UUCP (Serdar Argic)
Distribution: world

In article <11370.3248.uupcb@factory.com> michael.polymenakos@factory.com (Michael Polymenakos)  writes:

> ARGIC is undoubtedly an auto-reply machine, whether biological or
>not. Occasionally, new postings appear, sometimes even there are hints

But the problem is that you are a compulsive liar. Now when you have 
finished lying I'd suggest you answer the points I've raised below.

  The offences committed by the occupying Hellenic forces in the
  region of Aidin and its neighbourhood constitute crimes of an atrocity
  inconceivable and without parallel in history. Villages and towns of
  considerable importance, immense riches and thousands of innocent
  human beings have been given without mercy as a prey to the flames.
  The ravages of this murderous hand which continues to perpetrate
  horrible crimes are acquiring a greater extension, whose fatal
  consequences threaten public safety and the harmony existing between
  the different elements of the country. We, who more than six hundred
  years lived happily under the shield of the Ottoman Empire, cannot
  tolerate the continuance of such criminal acts. While the Hellenes
  are spreading horror by their crimes quite close to us, we are
  enjoying the benefits and the high protection and aid of the Ottoman
  Government and not one of us has been object of the slightest attack.

  It is with horror and indignation that we reprove the misdeeds of this
  Hellenic forces of occupation, whose sole object is to pursue a policy
  of extermination in the country.

  In the name of humanity and of public safety we appeal to the high
  benevolence of the Great Powers begging them to take into serious
  consideration, so as to put a stop [to] it as soon as possible, this
  horrible carnage.

            Locum tenens of the Metropolitan and President of the
                            Greek Community of Denizli

                            The Prelate, HRISSOSTOMOS


            Locum tenens of the Metropolitan of the Armenian Community

                            The Prelate, BABKEN

Serdar Argic

                     'This war quickly developed into one of extermination. 
                      We closed the roads and mountain passes that might 
                      serve as ways of escape for the Tartars [Turks] and 
                      then proceeded in the work of extermination.'
                                                       (Ohanus Appressian)

Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast,soc.rights.human
Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast
Subject: Wayne McGuire and Itzhak Shamir
From: fedimit@wisslc1.weizmann.ac.il (Dan nabuovsky)
Date: Sun, 3 Jan 1993 16:15:42 GMT
Distribution: talk
Organization: Weizmann Institute of Science, Computation Center

In article <199231.1777.21855@channel1> "wayne mcguire" <wayne.mcguire@channel1.com> writes:
>To: Dan Nabutovsky
>
>> [Reference to interview where Shamir sais that Arabs enjoy murdering etc.]
>
> DN> I never heard Shamir or any other Likud politician making
> DN> any racist statement. You claim is completely impossible.
> DN> The word "they" should mean terrorists, not Arabs. Either
> DN> you or UPI got some phrases of the Shamir's interview and
> DN> moved them out of the context.
>
>Either you will provide well-documented evidence that UPI
>misquoted or twisted Shamir's words, or we can add your messages
>on this topic to the long list of examples in which emotional
>supporters of Israel have gone to absurd lengths to rationalize
>questionable instances of Israeli words and actions.

You blamed Itzhak Shamir, so you must prove that you are right.
Either send any newspaper where his interview was published
(in GIF format or by surface mail) or send audio-file. Or give me a reference
to any Israeli newspaper which published the interview.

Until you didn't this I regard your message as lie,
because of everything which I know about Shamir.

>I note with interest that the American media continue to downplay
>or ignore this incident and many others like it. They are bending
>over backwards to protect Israel.

   Probably American media ignores this information because it is not true.
Or because it exists only in your smart head.

>Why do you choose to put my name in the subject headings, btw?

And why do you choose to call your messages "israeli racism", btw?

Dan
Xref: sparky talk.politics.mideast:24001 talk.politics.soviet:9952 soc.culture.greek:11831 soc.culture.europe:10759 soc.history:10357 soc.culture.bulgaria:2009
From: dbd@urartu.sdpa.org (David Davidian)
Subject: Re: Self-Refuting Dolts in the Service of Turkish Genocide Apology 
Summary: quoting from a book delineating the genocide of Armenians 
Keywords: quote from Chapter I, page 1.... 
Organization: S.D.P.A. Center for Regional Studies
Date: Wed, 30 Dec 1992 01:57:54 GMT

In article <9212251215@zuma.UUCP> sera@zuma.UUCP (Serdar Argic), a servile dolt
in the service of Turkish fascism, posted a response with text written by the
Inspector General of Turkish Forces in Armenia from:

[(*] [1] _Four Years Beneath the Crescent_ Rafael De Nogalas, Inspector General
[(*]  of Turkish Forces in Armenia and Military Governor of Egyptian Sinai 
[(*]  During the War, Translated from the Spanish by Muna Lee, Charles 
[(*]  Scribner's Sons, New York, London, 1926, page 17

Ha..."Turkish Forces in Armenia" ...according to Turkish Historical Revisionism
there was "never" a place called Armenia! What a pack of self-refuting fools!

[(*] He didn't have the guts to quote this either:
[(*] 
[(*]   "there can be no doubt that the Turk, in spite of all his
[(*]    defects, is the first soldier and the first gentleman of
[(*]    the Orient,"

The very first paragraph in this text used by Turkish Genocide Apology says:

	"As the only Christian who witnessed the Armenian massacres and
	 deportations in an official capacity, I may fittingly offer an
	 explanation of the incongruity of my position. Moreover, as I
	 held the post of Inspector General of Turkish forces in Armenia,
	 despite my Christian affiliations, it will be appropriate to 
	 relate the devious and almost fantastic course of events which
	 led me to that appointment, and to that paradoxical survey of the 
	 hideous." [1]

			- - - Turkish-suggested reference - - -

[1] _Four Years Beneath the Crescent_ Rafael De Nogales, Inspector General of
    Turkish Forces in Armenia and Military Governor of Egyptian Sinai During 
    the War, Translated from the Spanish by Muna Lee, Charles Scribner's Sons,
    New York, London, 1926, page 1, the first two sentences. 


 
-- 
David Davidian <dbd@urartu.sdpa.org> |"The massacres? Oh well! They merely  
S.D.P.A. Center for Regional Studies | amuse me!"  -Talaat Pasha, architect of 
P.O. Box 382761                      | Turkish the genocide of Armenian people. 
Cambridge, MA 02238                  | (Four Years Beneath the Crescent, p 208) 
Xref: sparky talk.politics.mideast:24591 talk.politics.soviet:10193 soc.culture.greek:12009 soc.culture.europe:10980 soc.history:10509 soc.culture.soviet:11774 soc.culture.turkish:13754
From: sera@zuma.UUCP (Serdar Argic)
Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast,talk.politics.soviet,soc.culture.greek,soc.culture.europe,soc.history,soc.culture.soviet,soc.culture.turkish
Followup-To: soc.culture.turkish
Subject: Re: Recalling in sorrow the silent memory of 2.5 million Muslim people.
Date: Sun, 03 Jan 93 16:46:04 EST
Reply-To: sera@zuma.UUCP (Serdar Argic)
Distribution: world

In article <johnm.726042166@cortex.physiol.su.oz.au> johnm@cortex.physiol.su.oz.au (John Males) writes:

>Serdar,
>Must you post every single article you write into so many newsgroups? 

"The Armenian genocide of 2.5 million Muslim people" is surely a relevant 
topic for discussion in those newsgroups. Why not create "*.*.xsovietarmenia"?

>What does
>this article, for example, have to do with soc.culture.croatia?

Can't you see it?

 "Today's ethnic cleansing policies by the Serbian dictatorship against
  Croatians and Muslims of Yugoslavia, as well as the Soviet Republic
  of Armenia's against the Muslim population of neighboring Azerbaijan,
  are really no different in their aspirations than the genocide 
  perpetrated by the Armenian Government 78 years ago against the
  Turkish and Kurdish Muslims and Sephardic Jews living in these
  lands."         (Cebbar Leygara - Kurdish Leader - October 13, 1992)


Serdar Argic

                     'This war quickly developed into one of extermination. 
                      We closed the roads and mountain passes that might 
                      serve as ways of escape for the Tartars [Turks] and 
                      then proceeded in the work of extermination.'
                                                       (Ohanus Appressian)

Xref: sparky talk.politics.mideast:24211 talk.politics.soviet:10022 soc.culture.greek:11911 soc.culture.europe:10840 soc.history:10407 soc.culture.yugoslavia:10290
From: sera@zuma.UUCP (Serdar Argic)
Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast,talk.politics.soviet,soc.culture.greek,soc.culture.europe,soc.history,soc.culture.yugoslavia
Followup-To: soc.culture.turkish
Subject: Despite what "pol*pol" hears in Greece...
Date: Sun, 27 Dec 92 22:41:21 EST
Reply-To: sera@zuma.UUCP (Serdar Argic)
Distribution: world

In article <11235.3248.uupcb@factory.com> michael.polymenakos@factory.com (Michael Polymenakos)  writes:

> How typical of the defenders of Skopjian interests to base their
>case on sources originating from totalitarian regimes (Tito, Mussolini,
>the pro-hitler regime of WWII Bulgaria, Nazism's prophet Falmerrayer,
>etc.)

Opol. Did you ever read scholarly sources at all?

Source: Walker, Christopher: "Armenia: The Survival of a Nation."
        New York (St. Martin's Press), 1980.

This generally pro-Armenian work contains the following information
of direct relevance to the Nazi Holocaust: 

a) Dro (the butcher), the former Dictator of the Armenian Dictatorship and
the architect of the Genocide of 2.5 million Turks and Kurds, the most 
respected of Nazi Armenian leaders, established an Armenian Provisional 
Republic in Berlin during World War II; 

b) this 'provisional government' fully endorsed and espoused the social 
theories of the Nazis, declared themselves and all Armenians to be members 
of the Aryan 'Super-Race;' 

c) they published an Anti-Semitic, racist journal, thereby aligning themselves 
with the Nazis and their efforts to exterminate the Jews; and, 

d) they mobilized an Armenian Army of up to 20,000 members which fought side 
by side with the Wehrmacht.

In fact, by 1942, Nazi Armenians in Europe had established a vast 
network of pro-German collaborators, that extended over two continents. 
Thousands of Armenians were serving the German army and Waffen-SS in 
Russia and Western Europe. Armenians were involved in espionage and 
fifth-column activities for Hitler in the Balkans and Arabian Peninsula. 
They were promised an 'independent' state under German 'protection' in 
an agreement signed by the 'Armenian National Council.' (A copy of this 
agreement can be found in the 'Congressional Record,' November 1, 1945; 
see Document 1.) On this side of the Atlantic, Nazi Armenians were aware 
of their brethrens alliance. They had often expressed pro-Nazi sentiments 
until America entered the war.

Serdar Argic

                     'This war quickly developed into one of extermination. 
                      We closed the roads and mountain passes that might 
                      serve as ways of escape for the Tartars [Turks] and 
                      then proceeded in the work of extermination.'
                                                       (Ohanus Appressian)

Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast,soc.rights.human
From: astein@nysernet.org (Alan Stein)
Subject: Re: Israeli Expulsion of 418 Palestinians
Organization: NYSERNet, Inc.
Date: Fri, 25 Dec 1992 03:25:58 GMT

eggertj@moses.atc.ll.mit.edu (Jim Eggert x6127 g41) writes:

>Were the deportees convicted of terrorism?  No.  Were the deportees
>proven in a court of law to be members of an outlaw group?  No.

Was Nissim Toledano convicted in a court of law before he was brutally
murdered by Hamas terrorists?

In case you didn't notice, there's a war going on there.

>Indeed, according to independent reports, many if not most of the
>deportees were _not_ members of Hamas at all.

It didn't look that way on television.

>You cannot execute or deport an entire population because of a fear
>that some of them may eventually become criminals.

There are a couple of million Palestinian Arabs (roughly) in the
territories.  Three hundred eighty or so is far from "an entire
population."
-- 
Alan H. Stein   -----  AJIN   -----  astein@israel.nysernet.org
From: chrism@cirrus.com (Chris Metcalfe)
Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast
Subject: Re: nazi beer gardens / Channel 1...
Date: 22 Dec 92 17:49:46 GMT
Distribution: talk
Organization: Cirrus Logic Inc.

In article <1992Dec22.1777.21450@channel1> "wayne mcguire" <wayne.mcguire@channel1.com> writes:

>Channel 1 (R)   Cambridge, MA

Nice try Wayne, but you have zero credibility left.

Channel 1 switching to Amature Radio Forum...

Over and out.   :-)

-- Chris Metcalfe
From: revans@euclid.ucsd.edu (Ron Evans)
Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast
Subject: Genocide
Date: 29 Dec 92 09:31:00 GMT

<BzzDEq.F4C@newsflash.concordia.ca> ilyess@ECE.Concordia.CA (Ilyess Bdira):

>The fact that many
>Israelis always bring up the genocide against native Americans shows that
>they think that anything that is not worse than that should not be 
>condemned.

	Ignoring the hysterical demonization of Israelis, 
	I focus on the misuse of the word "genocide".
	No U.S. administration in history made it a policy to
	systematically eradicate all Indians on American soil,
	the peaceful along with the belligerent, the half-breed
	along with the full-blooded. Indians were killed largely
	because they resisted expansionism, not because of a
	design to annihilate an ethnic group.

	After the massacre at Wounded Knee 102 years ago, the
	Indians could have decided to engage in random
	throat slitting of white men, until justice was proffered.
	In my opinion, that would have been counterproductive.
	Hamas' random killing of Jews seems to me similarly
	counterproductive.
-- 
Ron Evans (revans@math.ucsd.edu)
Xref: sparky talk.politics.mideast:24000 talk.politics.soviet:9951 soc.culture.greek:11830 soc.culture.europe:10758 soc.history:10356 soc.culture.soviet:11504
From: sera@zuma.UUCP (Serdar Argic)
Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast,talk.politics.soviet,soc.culture.greek,soc.culture.europe,soc.history,soc.culture.soviet
Followup-To: soc.culture.turkish
Subject: The smoke screen of "sipa of delco" and the Turkish Genocide.
Date: Wed, 23 Dec 92 22:35:31 EST
Reply-To: sera@zuma.UUCP (Serdar Argic)
Distribution: world

In article <9212231358.AA04047@kocrsw06.delcoelect.com> c23st@kocrsv01.delcoelect.com (Spiros Triantafyllopoulos) writes:

>             |  o\__    | Ne mutlu anti-Argic diyene? | Beef: Real Food 

Nightmarish threat?

According to Dikran Kevorkyan (Secretary General of the Armenian Patriarchal
Board of Consultation, Turkey):[1]

"The Armenians started rebellions to establish an independent state within
 the Ottoman Empire between 1878 and 1915, cooperated with the Russians in
 Eastern Anatolia behind the Turkish lines, caused great damage to the
 Ottoman armies and threatened the security of the region."

"It is also historical fact that carts had to go over the ice which covered
 the bodies of tens of thousands of Turkish soldiers frozen to death in the
 east of Anatolia, because their supply lines had been cut off by the 
 Armenians."

"Some of the enheartened Armenians armed themselves, worked for the
 Russian army especially cutting off the Turkish military supply lines,
 and, when they found the courage, committed incredible atrocities,
 murders, intimidation and forced deportation against the Turks, with whom
 they had lived together in peace for hundreds of years."

[1] Dikran Kevorkyan, "International Terrorism and the Drug Connection," 
    Ankara University Press, 1984, pp. 95-102. 

Serdar Argic

                     'This war quickly developed into one of extermination. 
                      We closed the roads and mountain passes that might 
                      serve as ways of escape for the Tartars [Turks] and 
                      then proceeded in the work of extermination.'
                                                       (Ohanus Appressian)
Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast
Subject: Re: WHY?
From: fedimit@wisipc.weizmann.ac.il (Dan Nabutovsky)
Date: Thu, 31 Dec 1992 10:46:00 GMT
Organization: Weizmann Institute of Science, Computation Center

In article <1992Dec28.182805.13352@ncsu.edu> odkahn@eos.ncsu.edu (OPHER DANIEL KAHN) writes:
>And what is that obvious reason? Just those Moslem fanatics?  And Israel is
>just a large collection of angels...  Like I said, it is not simple at all.

COMPARING TO ARAB COUNTRIES, Israel is a large collection of angels.

>Both sides have contributed considerably to the problem, and claiming innocence
>on EITHER side is ridiculous.  I think that the first step to ANY solution will
>be for BOTH sides to recognize this.

   Contribution of Arabs and USSR was negative,
contibution of Israel was positive.  Israel wants and always wanted peace.
Most of Arab countries want and always wanted to destroy Israel.
Israel never tried to destroy any Arab country. All Israeli
politicians and (almost) all Israeli citizens want and always
wanted peace. Most of the Arab leaders called to Jihad.

   Dan
Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast
From: hernlem@chess.ncsu.EDU (Brad Hernlem)
Subject: Re: Palestinian Deportees
Reply-To: hernlem@chess.ncsu.EDU (Brad Hernlem)
Organization: North Carolina State University
Date: Sat, 2 Jan 1993 16:43:16 GMT

In article <1993Jan1.222702.9681@nysernet.org>, astein@nysernet.org
(Alan Stein) writes:
> hernlem@chess.ncsu.EDU (Brad Hernlem) writes:
> 
> 
> >According to the BBC (31-12-92, 0400 UTC) the French foreign minister
> >has proposed that the UN peacekeeping forces in Lebanon take charge of
> >the welfare of the 415 Palestinians forced out of the country by Israel.
> >Yasser Arafat has expressed interest in this proposal.
> 
> The Arabs have rejected the proposal, preferring to make propaganda
> hay at the expense of their brethren.

Has it been rejected? By whom? I have not heard any more about this
matter since 31-12-92. In any case, local villagers have been bringing
in food and other supplies, despite your apparent allegations that there
is no sympathy.

> >Furthermore, such an action by the UN would highlight the historical
> >problem of refugees, exiles, and deportees which has been created by the
> >formation of Israel, a monolithic, nationalistic regime in a land with a
> >historically multi-cultural background.
> 
> Like Jordan, which prohibits Jews from residing in the 75% of
> Palestine it controls?

I make my opinion clear in what I wrote. This opinion applies equally
elsewhere. However, Jews have no more right than anyone else to
arbitrarily chose where they wish to live. What I am referring to is not
the "right" to migrate but the right to live in peace and equality in
one's home. The Palestinians are not asking to migrate to Israel but to
remain in or return to their home.

I deplore nationalism because it divides people and builds hatred. 

> -- 
> Alan H. Stein                     astein@israel.nysernet.org

Brad Hernlem (hernlem@chess.ncsu.EDU)
From: Center for Policy Research <cpr@igc.apc.org>
Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast
Date: 26 Dec 92 15:50 PST
Subject: Re: Israeli Nazism? (Re: The Hadith
Nf-ID: #R:1992Dec26.202015.4798@nysernet.o:-2125952057:cdp:1483500313:000:1028
Nf-From: cdp.UUCP!cpr    Dec 26 15:50:00 1992


Israel has not deported terrorists, but ALLEGED terrorists. The
difference is crucial. A civilized country does not punish people without
due trial. These people, while perhaps members in HAMAS, were not
brought to a trial and not charged for any criminal offens. A person
who has not been properly convicted after due process is deemed 
innocent. This at least is the rule of law in civilized countries.

I wish Israel would emulate Western democratic countries rather than
kenguro-courts of military dictatorships. Those who are friends of
Israel and the Jewish people, should redouble their efforts in
bringing Israel to the fold of the civilized world rather than
defending what is utterly immoral and illegal.

The success of Hamas, by the way, can be attributed to a great
extent to the refusal of Israel's leaders to come to terms with
the legitimate grievances of the Palestinian people. If Israel would
recognize the wrong it inflicted on the P. people and attempt to
repair the wrong, Hamas would be put out of a job.
From: aaldoubo@copper.denver.colorado.edu (Shaqeeqa)
Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast
Subject: Re: Hamas
Summary: From the Ron Evans School of Thought
Date: 31 Dec 92 09:44:50 GMT
Organization: University of Colorado at Denver

In article <42941@sdcc12.ucsd.edu> revans@euclid.ucsd.edu (Ron Evans) writes:
><1ht1nmINNrkh@usenet.INS.CWRU.Edu> cl056@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Hamaza H. Salah) writes:
>
>>hamas targets its attacks against soldiers not civilians. 
>
>	The attack on Pearl Harbor was also directed primarily
>	against soldiers.  


And the U.S. rounded up all of the Japanese-Americans and
threw them in concentration camps and/or deported them.

Eh!  Justice American Style!

Anisa

Xref: sparky talk.politics.mideast:23829 soc.culture.arabic:5803