HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: hobbit@babyoil.ftp.com (*Hobbit*)
Newsgroups: alt.locksmithing
Subject: Novice questions, etc
Date: 13 Apr 92 17:41:43 GMT
Expires: 1 Apr 93 12:34
Organization: large

Now that I think about it, I often get asked "But ... aren't dead bolts harder
to pick than regular knob locks?"

Then I have to go off and explain that what hardware is on the other end of the
cylinder just *doesn't matter*, given that you can dope out which way to turn.
I assume your dead-bolt question deals with picking the lock itself, not trying
to throw the bolt once you've got it picked?

_H*
Newsgroups:   alt.locksmithing
From: Larry Margolis <margoli@watson.ibm.com>
Subject: Re: Novice questions.
Date: Mon, 13 Apr 1992 19:26:59 GMT
Reply-To: margoli@watson.IBM.com
Disclaimer: This posting represents the poster's views, not necessarily those of IBM
Organization: The Village Waterbed

In    <92104.085725C09615SJ@wuvmd.wustl.edu>          Aack! <C09615SJ@WUVMD.WUSTL.EDU> writes:
>
>      1>  Desk locks, file cabinet locks and even some door locks are a
>        snap.  Most door locks, however, are completely above my skill
>        level.  What makes one lock easier to pick than another?

Tolerences.  The better made the cylinder is, the harder it is to pick.

>      2>  After one of these attempts at my deadbolt I usually end up
>        sweaty and frustrated.  I also usually end up distorting my
>        tension wrench.  Is this bad?  Am I applying too much pressure?

Yes - try a light touch.  The tension wrench is just to provide a
little torque so that the pins stay up once they've been picked.

>      3>  The only picks I have found useful so far have been my diamond
>        and my rake.  Are the others just for show?

The diamond is good for wafer locks (like most desk locks).  The rake is
good for raking, but you use a hook when you want to pick each pin.  You
can also alternate - rake a little bit to get whatever pins you can by
'slop', then use the hook to get whatever pins you missed.  Pressing up
gently on each pin will tell you the status - if there's no pressure, it's
picked.  If you can feel the force of the spring, it's not picked; if you
can push it all the way up and it comes back down, then there's another
pin that you need to pick first.  If you get it part way up and you feel
the cylinder turn ever so slightly, you've picked that pin and can move
on to the next.  (If you get it part way up and the cylinder turns a lot,
you're done.  :-)

As has been suggested many times before, you should get a cylinder, take it
apart, remove all but two pin stacks, put it together, and practice picking
that (with the hook, not the rake).  Then try it with 3 chambers filled,
etc.  Note that if you're going by skill instead of slop, you will be able
to determine the order in which the pins have to be picked in order to open
the lock.

Larry Margolis, MARGOLI@YKTVMV (Bitnet), margoli@watson.IBM.com (Internet)
Newsgroups: alt.locksmithing
From: Larry Margolis <margoli@watson.ibm.com>
Subject: Re: The second step (Was: Re: The National Locksmith - Magazine)
Date: Thu, 16 Apr 1992 02:03:46 GMT
Reply-To: margoli@watson.IBM.com
Disclaimer: This posting represents the poster's views, not necessarily those of IBM
Organization: The Village Waterbed

In  <1992Apr14.022823.1573@cubetech.com>  andrew@cubetech.com (Andrew Loewenstern) writes:
>
> You have got to be kidding.  Filing cabinets always have extraordinarily cheap
> disk-tumbler locks.

Some do.  Others have good pin-tumbler locks.  Others have a safe dial.

> I have never seen a filing cabinet that had a good lock on it.

Doesn't mean they don't exist.

Larry Margolis, MARGOLI@YKTVMV (Bitnet), margoli@watson.IBM.com (Internet)
Newsgroups: alt.locksmithing
From: geb1@ra.msstate.edu (Granville Barker)
Subject: master combo locks
Organization: Mississippi State University
Date: Thu, 9 Apr 1992 05:53:49 GMT

I am under the impression that the Master Lock Company has a list of all
the numbers on the backs of the combo locks, and the combination to the 
lock.  

I saw a printout of about 200 combination locks once, but they were the 
master locks with the key-hole on the back.  But I would think they have
this information for all the locks they ever made.

Does anyone know if this is true, or if it is available for locksmiths??

Also, is there some alogrithm they use to figure out the combo based on the
number on the back?

Newsgroups: alt.locksmithing
From: andrew@cubetech.com (Andrew Loewenstern)
Subject: Re: simple question: Drilling
Reply-To: andrew@cubetech.com
Date: Mon, 13 Apr 1992 18:39:30 GMT

In article <1992Apr10.174126.30198@watson.ibm.com> Larry Margolis  
<margoli@watson.ibm.com> writes:
>  Note that any decent safe will have a relocking device, so any attempt at
>  forcible entry by punching out the spindle will simply make it impossible
>  to open the safe without drilling.

Yes, but if you drill in the right spot, you should be able to see the gates  
line up on the discs...  Isn't this the main reason for drilling?


andrew
-- 
andrew@cubetech.com
Andrew Loewenstern            |  "listen: there's a hell of a good universe
Cube Technologies, Inc.       |   next door; let's go." --- e.e. cummings
Organization: Washington University, St. Louis
Date:         Mon, 13 Apr 92 16:51:03 CST
From:         Aack! <C09615SJ@WUVMD.WUSTL.EDU>
To:           NETNEWS@WUVMD
Subject:      Re: Novice questions.
Newsgroups:   alt.locksmithing

>
>In article <1992Apr13.192659.16955@watson.ibm.com>, Larry Margolis
><margoli@watson.ibm.com> says:
>
>In    <92104.085725C09615SJ@wuvmd.wustl.edu>          Aack!
><C09615SJ@WUVMD.WUSTL.EDU> writes:
>>
>>      3>  The only picks I have found useful so far have been my diamond
>>        and my rake.  Are the others just for show?
>
>The diamond is good for wafer locks (like most desk locks).  The rake is
>good for raking, but you use a hook when you want to pick each pin.  You
>can also alternate - rake a little bit to get whatever pins you can by
>'slop', then use the hook to get whatever pins you missed.  Pressing up
>gently on each pin will tell you the status - if there's no pressure, it's
>picked.  If you can feel the force of the spring, it's not picked; if you
>can push it all the way up and it comes back down, then there's another
>pin that you need to pick first.  If you get it part way up and you feel
>the cylinder turn ever so slightly, you've picked that pin and can move
>on to the next.  (If you get it part way up and the cylinder turns a lot,
>you're done.  :-)
>

   Sometimes, after an aborted attempt I will release pressure on the
wrench and I'll hear some of the pins click.  Were these pins I had picked
successfully?

>As has been suggested many times before, you should get a cylinder, take it
>apart, remove all but two pin stacks, put it together, and practice picking
>that (with the hook, not the rake).  Then try it with 3 chambers filled,
>etc.  Note that if you're going by skill instead of slop, you will be able
>to determine the order in which the pins have to be picked in order to open
>the lock.
>

   Ah. Forgive me. I'm new to the newsgroup.  Buying a lock is good advice
that I will follow.  Any particular brand I should look for?  I didn't know
there would be a particular order for the pins to be picked (I had always
assumed that front to back was fine) but after reading up a bit on the
construction of locks this makes sense.  I guess that the pins with the
break highest up should be picked first.  No?

                                                  Jon
Newsgroups: alt.locksmithing
Subject: Re: The National Locksmith - Magazine
From: mark@abekas.uucp (Mark Andrews)
Date: Tue, 7 Apr 1992 18:44:30 GMT
Organization: Abekas Video Systems Inc., Redwood City, California.

hes@unity.ncsu.edu (Henry E. Schaffer) writes:


>  There are a couple of magazines serving locksmiths and the
>industry.  I've read the Locksmith Ledger and The National Locksmith
>and they both have lots of information and ads.  In my experience
>both are better on mechanical stuff than on the electronics, but
>that also reflects the average locksmith.  I somewhat prefer
>the Locksmith Ledger, but I just got some info on the National 
>Locksmith in the mail and will post about it.  If you are 
>interested in subscribing, their address is:

>The National Locksmith
>1533 Burgundy Parkway
>Streamwood, IL  60107
>708 837 2044

>--henry schaffer  n c state univ

>P.S. No - I don't know the subscription rate.

As of the December '91 issue subscription was $32, for one year (in the US)
but the the application requires business identification, this is defined
as ....

"Each National Locksmith subscriber must provide proof that he is actively
engaged in the locksmithing business. This is in cooperation with law
enforcement agencies across the US. A police affadavit, license, written
notice from your employer on your business stationary, a business card, or
copy of your bond or I.D. number will qualify"


-- 
Mark Andrews
abekas!mark@pyramid.com

Newsgroups: alt.locksmithing
From: watrous@huey.udel.edu (Michael Watrous)
Subject: Re: pop cans
Organization: University of Delaware, Newark
Date: Tue, 7 Apr 1992 05:57:44 GMT

In article <09Ck02ppbfoP00@amdahl.uts.amdahl.com> fadden@uts.amdahl.com (Andy McFadden) writes:
>In article <CSUYX.92Apr4172900@lily.warwick.ac.uk> csuyx@csv.warwick.ac.uk (Wally..) writes:
>>I think salt water conducts better that plain H2O, but I'm more worried about
>>something else...
>
>Pure H2O doesn't conduct at all.

Purity of H20 is a tricky, multifaceted problem.  How well water conducts a
current, however, is based on its ionized impurity content as well as the
ever present equilibrium concentrations of ionized H+'s and OH-'s.
Deionized (no impurity ions) water has a resistivity of just over 18 Mohms-
cm.  This is as resistive as it gets.  Ergo, it conducts.

Mike W
From: dcohn@kuhub.cc.ukans.edu
Newsgroups: alt.locksmithing
Subject: Re: Finally, Garage Door Opener Hacker
Date: 10 Apr 92 17:37:22 CDT
Organization: University of Kansas Academic Computing Services


Concerning the post about the garage door scanner:

	1) i put this together and it works, actually its a very simple
circuit involving a counter that tries every possible combination. On some
openers, such as the ones intended to be used with the circuit posted, there
are only ten standard DIP switches, giving a total of 1024 possible
combinations... not bad considering that when tuned for the fastest scan rate
that is still recognizable, the entire cycle takes 2 minutes, 24 seconds.
	2) This is one of the only cases in which trying all permutations can
be used as a feasable lockpicking method.
	3) More than half of the garage doors in my area use a 3 position DIP
type switch for coding. With 57 times more combinations possible, a scanning
circuit for this type of lock is impractical, theoretically taking over 2 and
a quarter hours. (by 3 positions i mean 10 switches with +,-,0 as possible
settings)... the logic is not bad, but its quite a bit more complex than the
2 position type [pin Q11 of the existing 4040 should be linked to the timer
pin of a second, then logical comparisons should be used on each set of Q pins
through 10, if AND then activate +, if NAND then activate -, if none then 0
will automatically be activated, and the second 4040 must be set to divide by 2
to avoid doubling combinations]
	I think a universal opener for these 3 position x 10 switch locks that
is of any practical use to a locksmith wanting to aid people getting into their
house (or whatever motivation you have) must address multiple codes
simultaneously, or else scan so quickly as to hit all possible combinations for
enough cumulative time to open a door (i realize that the current circuit cant
do this)... We must first understand the addressing system before this will
be possible... any ideas anyone?
	My 2 position opener, by the way, is driven by a SC42453P1 (motorola)
if anyone can get info on it. I dont have the numbers for 3 position drivers..
(they would be appreciated too) 
		dan
DCOHN@KUHUB.CC.UKANS.EDU

Organization: Freshman, Math/Computer Science, Carnegie Mellon, Pittsburgh, PA
Newsgroups: alt.locksmithing
Date: Tue, 14 Apr 1992 06:54:17 -0400 
From: Benjamin E Griffin <bg1g+@andrew.cmu.edu>
Subject: Drill bits


I figure this is as good a place as any for this question,
does anyone know where I can get a variety of small (1/32nd to 1/4th
inch) drill bits suitable for puting holes in metal?

I had some, I think of tungsten-carbide, that I got in surplus, they
were great till they broke; and surplus is not a very reliable market
for replacements....

--
Benjamin Elijah Griffin
mankind+@cmu.edu

Newsgroups: alt.locksmithing
From: amb@cs.columbia.edu
Subject: Re: Novice questions.
Originator: amb@silver.lcs.mit.edu
Organization: Quiche Eaters Anonymous
Date: Wed, 15 Apr 1992 14:36:30 GMT

a dancing marSUPial writes:
>actually, i had it told to me that there was such a thing at the
>end of a Best.  and here i was all in a hurry to go out and buy
>a set of best blanks (all the a-h series) in order to make tension
>wrenches...looks like i don't have to do that now.

Actually, if you're looking to keep Best blanks handy, Star makes one
(what, 7BE2W?  something like that...) that fits a whole gamut of
keyways.  (Something like A-M, with one exception.)

andrew
Newsgroups: alt.locksmithing,sci.electronics,rec.pyrotechnics
From: billn@hpcvaac.cv.hp.com (bill nelson)
Subject: Re: Proximity detectors, flash pots, smoke pots, radio control
Organization: Hewlett-Parkard Company, Corvallis, Oregon USA
Date: Wed, 8 Apr 1992 16:13:09 GMT

heathh@cco.caltech.edu (Heath Ian Hunnicutt) writes:
: Hello,
: 	Does anybody in net-land have any info on building a motion/
: proximity detector?  What I am hoping to construct is a small device
: that can be placed near strategic entryways that would radio an alert
: to some control box if there was motion in the sensors field of vision.

The devices already exist - why go to the bother of designing and 
constructing them?

: 	It would be very much to my liking also, if the control
: box could issue radio commands to electronic flash pots and 
: smoke pots.  (The kind used in stage productions to produce thos
: exciting pyrotechnic bursts of light and smoke.)

Are you sure you need a radio signal and not just a regular electrical
signal? 

Bill
Newsgroups: alt.locksmithing
From: codrus@glia.biostr.washington.edu (Ian McCloghrie)
Subject: Re: master combo locks
Organization: University of Washington
Date: Thu, 9 Apr 1992 23:41:48 GMT

In <31501@sdcc12.ucsd.edu> mark@kraken.ucsd.edu (Mark Anderson) writes:

>It is also available as a program on an IBM
>Compatible.  A fantasy of mine has always been to
>buy the program ($595) and set it to be accessed
>on the network as a mail server.  Right now its
>beyond my grad student budget.

	Hmmm... probably violate some kind of licenscing agreement, but
it's still a nifty idea.. <grin>

--
 /~> Ian McCloghrie      | TimeTraveller, betz.biostr.washington.edu 4096
< <  /~\ |~\ |~> |  | <~ | codrus@ucsd.edu  <--->  (128.95.10.119 4096)
 \_> \_/ |_/ |~\ |__| _> | Honourary member - UCSD Secret Islandia Club
From: mhbraun@athena.mit.edu (Matthew Braun)
Newsgroups: alt.locksmithing
Subject: Re: Source for Medeco Cylinders
Date: 17 Apr 92 17:48:59 GMT
Organization: Massachusetts Institute of Technology


From your description, it looks to me like the locks that  Marlin P. Jones &
Assoc  is selling are Medeco Omega locks (If they have an Omega on the lead
seal on the wire that hold the keys together, that is a give awaay. 

Omegas are the predecessors to the Bi-axail locks that Medeco currently
produces.  They are no longer in production as far as I know.

You will notice that instead of having  top & bottom pins, the Omega only has
bottom pins, because there sidebar determines no only rotation but also
height.  On the 'new' Medecos, the side bar has a box shaped pprotusion into
each pinway, and the bottom pins have a groove.  In the Omegas the sidebar a a
prong and the pins just have a drill hole.  The Omegas are more prone to
failure.  Because all of the pins are the same size, the lock can be keyed
to just about any pin heignt, because they do not have to manufacture pins of
different sizes, just drill holes in different places.  

Anyway these locks are signiificantly different from most Medecos that are
used today, but they are still a chalange.

(And depending on what level of security they are (ie If they are Level IV)
they may have countermeasures that make picking more difficult)
From: imcc@cs.strath.ac.uk (Iain McCord)
Newsgroups: alt.locksmithing
Subject: Re: Need information on entry system
Date: 16 Apr 92 15:07:50 GMT
Organization: Comp. Sci. Dept., Strathclyde Univ., Scotland.

You could try a PIN for each card ( like a cashline card ). Then losing a card
doesn't cause more work than needed.
-- 

		~~~~~/\~~~~~
Iain McCord	~~~~/()\~~~~	Thu Apr 16 16:07:48 WET DST 1992
		~~~~~~~~~~~~
From: hes@unity.ncsu.edu (Henry E. Schaffer)
Newsgroups: alt.locksmithing
Subject: Re: simple question: Drilling
Date: 11 Apr 92 20:43:35 GMT
Organization: Computing Center, North Carolina State University

In article <1992Apr10.064647.561@miavx2.ham.muohio.edu> rjlewis@miavx2.ham.muohio.edu (Richard J. Lewis, Jr - Hacker@Large) writes:
>  ...  Where would you drill in 
>a safe to get in it?  How does this work?

  Read Larry's excellent post about the internal workings of a
combination lock, and then think how much easier the whole process
would be if you could only *see* the wheels/gates.  So you drill a
small hole (just big enough to see through) into the area where
the fence fits into the gates and just watch.  Unfortunately, safe
makers know about this trick, so they put some "hard plate" or
whatever makes it very difficult to drill through in that area.
So drill in a different area, and then transpose what you see
to make things line up right.  The manuals which give drill points
for safes take into account where it is hard/easy to drill and
what you can see.  (These manuals are not generally available.)

  Generally it takes a powerful drill, good drill bits (ordinary 
hardware store high speed steel bits won't stand up to this) and a 
fair amount of effort.

--henry schaffer  n c state univ
From: fadden@uts.amdahl.com (Andy McFadden)
Newsgroups: alt.locksmithing
Subject: Kryptonite locks
Date: 15 Apr 92 22:14:36 GMT
Reply-To: fadden@amdahl.uts.amdahl.com (Andy McFadden)
Distribution: alt
Organization: Amdahl Corporation, Sunnyvale CA

I don't know what else to call them, but the Kryptonite bicycle locks use
them, so I'll refer to them that way.

What I'm babbling about are the circular keys with little notches on them,
often used to protect stuff like bicycles, alarm panels, etc, etc.  Is there
a reason why these aren't used for doors or other things?

My understanding is that, while it has been done before, they are nearly
impossible to pick.

-- 
fadden@uts.amdahl.com (Andy McFadden)
[ Above opinions are mine, Amdahl has nothing to do with them, etc, etc. ]
Xref: sparky alt.locksmithing:695 sci.electronics:8613 rec.pyrotechnics:1850
From: ranck@vtvm1.cc.vt.edu (Wm. L. Ranck)
Newsgroups: alt.locksmithing,sci.electronics,rec.pyrotechnics
Subject: Dye marker fire alarms?
Date: 16 Apr 92 17:28:52 GMT
Followup-To: alt.locksmithing
Organization: Virginia Tech Computing Center - Distributed Computing Group

In article <66qaJB1w164w@obmarket> michaelc@obmarket (Michael Campbell) writes:
>On a related note, I've heard that modern fire alarms in buildings, (the
>kind you set off, not the automatic kind) have the paint spraying
>mechanisms similar to the ones in bank bags.  (Explode on you, literally
>painting you red.  Sometimes blue.  Impossible to wash off).  True, not
>true?

   Well, I don't know if it's true or not, but it sounds way too easy to
get around this type of detterent.  Take a coat hanger and pull the lever
from a few feet back.  But, there are lots of ineffective products on the
market so I wouldn't say that nobody has marketed these.
   This sort of thing only works once or twice.  Then the troublemakers 
find out about it and the workarounds are simple.

 *************************************************************************
 * Bill Ranck                  DoD #0496           RANCK@VTVM1.CC.VT.EDU *
 * '87 XV535 Virago          '73 Norton Commando    '73 Honda 350-4      *
 * (it gets me there)        (it's a classic)      (it's hard to explain)*
 *************************************************************************
From: jflint@csws11.ic.sunysb.edu (Jesse Flint)
Newsgroups: alt.locksmithing
Subject: Re: Explosives...  Ammonium Triiodide
Summary: Comic relief
Keywords: fnord
Date: 6 Apr 92 17:59:16 GMT
Expires: Fri, 1 May 1992 04:00:00 GMT
Followup-To: the following
Distribution: usa
Organization: State University of New York at Stony Brook

In article <MYCROFT.92Apr6014130@hal.gnu.ai.mit.edu> mycroft@hal.gnu.ai.mit.edu (Charles Hannum) writes:
>
>> Hey guys, can anyone post the way to easily make this ammonium
>> triiodide?  you know, with simple home-type ingredients...
>>
>> I'd like to try it on a FRIEND!
>
>This is *not* funny.  Nitrogen triiodide is *very* dangerous and *very*
>volatile.  Even if you don't blow off parts of your body making it,
>you'll have loads of fun when you breathe iodine vapors.
>
>You can't even make large quantities of the stuff, because it will
>explode due to its own weight as it dries, spewing toxic fumes.
>
>My best recommendation is to forget about it.  Learn some chemistry if
>you like, but be careful.

-Besides,
		YOU'LL PUT YOUR EYE OUT!!   :-)
					--Tog
					(Sometimes you just gotta wonder...)
-- 
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