From: dfpedro@nv2.uswnvg.com (Donn F. Pedro)
Newsgroups: talk.politics.misc
Subject: Re: What is "Sexual Orientation"?
Date: 5 Oct 92 19:07:46 GMT
Organization: I don't speak for them anyway.

Phil Ronzone writes:
:In article <2745@uswnvg.uswnvg.com> dfpedro@nv2.uswnvg.com (Donn F. Pedro) writes:
:>In article <12559@optilink.UUCP> cramer@optilink.UUCP (Clayton Cramer) writes:
:    >: :Supporting the right of someone to do something unpleasant
:    >:(free speech, homosexual sex, drug abuse) isn't the same as
:    >:supporting them. They have the right to do it -- as
:    >unpleasant :as I find it.
:    >
:    >I can't believe he just said that. Here -- let me replace one
:    >set of words.
:    >
:    >"Supporting the right of someone to do something unpleasant
:    >(NAMBLA marching in some parade) isn't the same as supporting
:    >them. They have the right to do it -- as unpleasant as some
:    >find it."
:    >
:Donn --
:
:You have a problem here. Clayton (and I as well) have stated over
:and over again these very principles.
:
:Perhaps if you didn't confuse "I don't like it" with "there should
:be a law against it" you'd understand.

Never addressed "there should be a law against it", Phil.

I never labored under the delusion that Clayton wanted to legislate
the rights of Free Speech away from anyone.  It is his insistance on
holding the 'gay community' responsible (as if there was a 'community'
that made those decisions), for the times that NAMBLA has marched in 
the diverse, ever-changing, never wholly representative, Gay Pride 
Parades.

Many, many times, members of the group soc.motss have stated that,
though they find what NAMBLA is quite distasteful, they, like you,
believe that they have a right to march and speak.

The problem is that Clayton insists on blaming an entire group of 
people, making continuing false statements about that group of
people, and basically harassing an entire newsgroup, all because 
they won't bow down to his demand that they somehow stop NAMBLA
from hiding under the banner of Gay rights.

:Like NAZI marches, Clayton and I believe the NAZI marches HAVE EVERY
:right to march.

Many members of the group he harasses agree with him.

:But, boy oh oy, Clayton and I also have every right to dislike
:disdain and not employ or associate with (etc.) anybody that
:marches in the NAZI parade.

Many members of the group he harasses feel the same way about NAMBLA.

:In short, NAMBLA has every right to march, but we also have every right
:to strongly shun that disgusting group.

Many do shun it, but the problem is that Clayton doesn't get enough
shunning for his taste (or the right type of shunning) -- so
the harrassment, lies, and insults continue.

Like members of soc.motss can ever satisfy his need for power.

:I'm sure you support the right of the NZAIS to march (or am I wrong),

I do support the right to speak and to march.

:ye would YOU associate with someone you saw marching with 'em?

I may, but I would most likely question the person as to why they
were marching.

Now this will sound strange -- even beyond the usual USENET leaps
of logic but:

What if they were supporting thier right to march and speak in the
face of those trying to curtail those rights?  (Hypothetically 
speaking as if someone was trying to do such a thing.)

Whould speaking in defense of thier right to march be the same as
supporting the group itself?

That is the crux if the matter, Phil.  I understand that, and you  do
too.  And thought I disagree with a lot of what you say, I agree
with you on this issue.  

The problem is Cramers continued insistance that soc.motss and the gay
community (as if it were a corporation or  single entity that could actually
work together) 'shun' NAMBLA.  Unless they do so, and to his satisfaction,
he will never stop his homosexual=pedophile rant.

"There will be no peace on USENET ..."



     Donn Pedro ....................................dfpedro@uswnvg.com

		     There are no ordinary moments.
Newsgroups: talk.politics.misc