HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: bense@oasys.dt.navy.mil (Ron Bense)
Newsgroups: rec.autos.driving
Subject: Re: H. Ross Perot's proposed gas tax
Date: 8 Oct 92 12:45:51 GMT
Reply-To: bense@oasys.dt.navy.mil (Ronald Bense)
Distribution: usa
Organization: Carderock Division, NSWC, Bethesda, MD

In rec.autos.driving, bob1@cos.com (Bob Blackshaw) writes:

Hi Bob!

>Amen to the infrastructure, but stop and think about Perot's plan.
>In the current economy, raising taxes across the board would be
>just what it takes to turn this recession into a full scale
>depression a la 1930s. How about dumping space stations and
>star wars? Don't be fooled by the economists talking about
>consumer confidence, I am not lacking in confidence, just
>money :-(. Thanks, Ross but I think I'll go with Bill and Al.

I agree that those should definitely be put on hold or dropped altogether.
Same with a lot of other "non-essential" government functions, like
providing free money to third world countries. Make them repay it, or
at least sign a debt contract. And do note that when I originally stated
my support for this, it was to reduce the "DEBT", not the deficit. That
would already have been nullified before I agree to *any* tax increases.

Ron                          Think about this one (seen on a bumper sticker):
			     The road to hell is bumper-to-bumper
			     Make a U-turn to God.
The irony is priceless.
Newsgroups: rec.autos.driving
From: tmi@netcom.com (Peter Alan Kasler)
Subject: Re: Does This Law Make Sense
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services  (408 241-9760 guest) 
Date: Sat, 10 Oct 1992 09:15:52 GMT

In <1992Oct8.194317.3609@photon.com> jbn@photon.com (Joe Naiman) writes:


>I've been trying to find out how one can legally transport a firearm in
>a station wagon which has no locked trunk.  

	California law allows an unloaded handgun to be transported in
a vehicle: 1) locked in the trunk, 2) in a locked container that is
not the glove or utility compartment, and (see below)

>An NRA instructor told me that if the gun is on the seat in plain view, it is
>not concealed, and it's legal to transport it that way if the gun 
>is unloaded.

	3) as stated immediately above. Caveat: open carry, whether in
a vehicle or otherwise, may not be prudent for several reasons. Merely
because one has a right, discretion may suggest not exercising it in
certain situations and circumstances.


-- 
     Peter Alan Kasler                            Fax: 707-939-8684
     Threat Management Institute                Voice: 707-939-0303
     800 West Napa Street                     TMI BBS: 707-935-1713
     Sonoma, CA  95476                     Internet: tmi@netcom.com
Newsgroups: rec.autos.driving
From: goudreau@batman.rtp.dg.com (Bob Goudreau)
Subject: Re: H. Ross Perot's proposed gas tax
Date: Wed, 7 Oct 92 15:57:56 GMT
Organization: Data General Corporation, RTP, NC

In article <1992Oct6.141459.5447@kocrsv01.delcoelect.com> c23st@kocrsv01.delcoelect.com (Spiros Triantafyllopoulos) writes:

>
>Third, whether we like it or not, low priced gasoline has created a life
>style that would be upset quite a bit by a gas hike.
>...
>In my reasoning above I have not included any arguments related to the
>auto industry (obviously :-)). For me, argument #3 is the most compelling.
>The government is in no position to 'social engineer' the reversal of the
>bedroom/work/mall separation. 

Just to throw a little cold water on this thread...

Regardless of how you feel about the proposed higher tax, or about
social engineering, or about the deficit, etc., bear in mind the
following:

Ten years or so ago, Americans *were* paying over $1.50/gallon (in
1992 dollars) for their gas.  Any arguments that Perot's $0.50/gallon
increase would Revitalize Our Cities, Break the Backs of the Poor,
Destroy the Automotive Industry, End Our American Way of Life, etc.,
are thus simply not very plausible.


----------------------------------------------------------------------
Bob Goudreau			Data General Corporation
goudreau@dg-rtp.dg.com		62 Alexander Drive	
+1 919 248 6231			Research Triangle Park, NC  27709, USA
From: kemasa@ghost.hac.com (Kemasa)
Newsgroups: rec.autos.driving
Subject: Re: H. Ross Perot's proposed gas tax
Date: 12 Oct 92 14:53:09 GMT
Organization: Natural Order Nature Experiments (N.O.N.E.)

In article <22862@galaxy.ucr.edu> judson@watnxt2.ucr.edu (Michael Judson) writes:
>...
>Although a $.50 gas tax is quite high, it is not too unreasonable.  Look at
>Europe, they pay about $4.00 - $5.00 per gallon.

If you want to look at Europe, then take a look at the whole picture, not
just the prices. There are differences, besides Perot just does not make
sense when he wants to raise taxes since he says that the government is
already wasting money or does he want the government to have even more
money to waste?
-- 



						 Kemasa.

Insanity is the best defense.

Sierra Club Leader	NRA Life Member		Pro-freedom	Pro-choice

e-mail address: kemasa@ghost.hac.com
Newsgroups: rec.autos.driving
From: lenkeit@firebird.rtp.dg.com (Matt Lenkeit)
Subject: Expired inspection sticker
Date: Tue, 13 Oct 92 12:20:47 GMT
Organization: Data General Corporation, Research Triangle Park, NC

If I am driving someone else's pickup truck (in NC)
and the inspection sticker is expired, am I responsible
for the ticket? It has my name on it, but his vehicle.

Thanks!

-Matt
From: lairdb@crash.cts.com (Laird P. Broadfield)
Newsgroups: rec.autos.driving
Subject: Re: Thank you at night (was Re: Signalling one's desire to pass)
Date: 8 Oct 92 18:33:04 GMT
Organization: "Well, a head on top, an arm on each side, two legs...."

In <1aqf5iINNuv@usenet.INS.CWRU.Edu> ah335@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Richard Banks) writes:
>In a previous article, karmira@natinst.com (Apostolos Karmirantzos) says:
>>  What do you think is the appropriate way to signal a thank you at night
>>to someone who went right to allow you to pass. If it's day, I just wave
>>my hand, but what about at night?

>Never, never use hand signals unless you absolutely must.
>It's a bad feeling when you have to stop your car in the middle of traffic to
>go pick up your arm laying in the road that other motorists are running over.

%%
Taken from 'Metro' (San Fran Bay area weekly)
Edition Jan 2-8 . Vol7, No 44.
Without Permission.

"Police in Papua, New Guinea, solved the mystery
of an arm found underneath a truck in Mt. Hagen
when a man contacted police 150 miles away in
Lae to report his missing.  The man, who had been
drinking, recalled driving towards Lae with his
right arm hanging out of the window when a truck
passed in the opposite direction.  Some time later,
he felt some pain and noticed his arm wasn't there.
Police searched for the missing limb but found
nothing until a truck driver noticed the arm beneath
his truck and reported it."
%%


-- 
Laird P. Broadfield     lairdb@crash.cts.com    ...{ucsd, nosc}!crash!lairdb
Hi!  I'm a shareware signature!  Send $5 if you use me, send $10 for manual!
From: blu@cellar.org (Dan Reed)
Newsgroups: rec.autos.driving
Subject: Re: Expired inspection sticker
Date: 16 Oct 92 12:54:16 GMT
Organization: The Cellar BBS and public access system

lenkeit@firebird.rtp.dg.com (Matt Lenkeit) writes:

> If I am driving someone else's pickup truck (in NC)
> and the inspection sticker is expired, am I responsible
> for the ticket? It has my name on it, but his vehicle.
> 
> Thanks!
> 
> -Matt


Hey!  Do what we do in NJ!

Make your own!

(duck)

----- 
 Dan Reed (Blu-Max) blu@cellar.org - AutoCad Geek - VW Lover - InlineSkater 
68 Cougar XR-7, 89 VW Golf, 72 Honda CL360Twin, Ti/99/4a, Vextrex, Timex
Newsgroups: rec.autos.driving
From: aefron@cornerstone.com (Andrew Efron)
Subject: Re: Signalling one's desire to pass
Reply-To: aefron@cornerstone.com (Andrew Efron)
Organization: Cornerstone Research, Cambridge, Mass.
Date: Wed, 7 Oct 1992 14:22:41 GMT

In article <1992Oct1.163946.1@bronco.fnal.gov>, colombo@bronco.fnal.gov 
writes:

> Another use for flashing lights is to indicate to oncoming traffic
> that a (potential) speed trap is ahead.  I think this is illegal too.

Is it?  Articles I've read in several prominent auto magazines have pointed 
out that more people should do this.

Andy
From: jdonsbac@cvbnet.prime.com (Jeff Donsbach)
Newsgroups: rec.autos.driving
Subject: Re: H. Ross Perot's proposed gas tax
Date: 7 Oct 92 20:17:01 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: Computervision, Bedford MA

Just to ad my $.02, I think I would support a gradual $.50/gal increase
with a few restrictions on where that extra money could be spent: I.E.
	- roads & bridges
	- DRIVER EDUCATION!!
	- mass transit
	- environmental cleanup
	- alternative fuel R & D
possibly others...

I don't necessarily LIKE to pay it, but I know it's inevitable.
None of this money should go toward deficit reduction. Let money from
general income taxes go to that. The money from general taxes that would
be spent on the above programs would go toward deficit reduction instead.

In my current situation, my wife and I would definitely feel a pinch
with a $.50/gal increase. I commute 115 miles a day. My wife commutes
about 90 miles a day. We go in directly opposite directions. Our gasoline bills
are around $200 a month (from memory). If it came down to it, one of us
would probably have to bite the bullet and change jobs so we could move closer
to work. In this economy, that may not be such an easy thing to do given that
finding a job for either of us might not be that easy, plus we probably could
not afford to buy a place of our own closer to work (we live in the sticks now).

I also think the gov't should give $1000 each to the owners of old
junkers to get them off the road (that 10% that cause 90% of the pollution).
It would do more to help cleanup the air in one fell swoop than CAFE has done
since it began and cost considerably less too. I'm not saying that the gov't
should just TAKE the cars, but they should make it financially cheaper for
people to trade them in.

-Jeff

-- 
=========================
Jeff Donsbach, Computervision Corp, 14 Crosby Dr. MS 5-2, Bedford, MA 01730
UUCP: {decvax|linus|sun}!cvbnet!jdonsbac | Internet: jdonsbac@cvbnet.prime.com
"10 bucks is 10 bucks" - Geddy Lee                       (soon to be CV.Com ??)
From: bense@oasys.dt.navy.mil (Ron Bense)
Newsgroups: rec.autos.driving
Subject: Re: H. Ross Perot's proposed gas tax
Date: 7 Oct 92 20:56:08 GMT
Reply-To: bense@oasys.dt.navy.mil (Ronald Bense)
Organization: Carderock Division, NSWC, Bethesda, MD

In rec.autos.driving, c23st@kocrsv01.delcoelect.com (Spiros Triantafyllopoulos) writes:

>Your opinion. I survived for 2 years as undergrad on $6000 a year and
>two more years on $7000 a year, with a car etc, as a grad student. I
>bet you never had to make the choice of groceries vs. dental work. I did.

To quote you "Quite a dumb statement". Don't be so assinine to think
you are the only one who had to suffer. I lived off of the same, and
my choices were rent or food. (had to choose rent, as I needed the heat,
even though I only saw the place at most 4 hours a night) Yeah, surprise,
I was a grad student too. I only got $660 a month during the semester,
too. That meant no money during vacations or summer. GSLs only help
you out a little, you can't live off of it. (My rent was only $230,
and it included water, sewer, sanitation. Electric I had to pay)

>And I'm not middle class here... I'm upper middle class, top 6% of income.
>Thank God :-)

I might be classified there, but you'd never recognize it from my lifestyle
now. Rent for a half-way decent apartment runs $680+ a month here (+
means up to $1500 for a standard, nothing special apartment.) Trashy
apartments where the "working poor" live run about $500/month. (That's
in areas you really don't want to be at any time, esp if you look like
you have a decent job, no matter what color you are.)

Ron                          Think about this one (seen on a bumper sticker):
			     The road to hell is bumper-to-bumper
			     Make a U-turn to God.
The irony is priceless.
From: bense@oasys.dt.navy.mil (Ron Bense)
Newsgroups: rec.autos.driving
Subject: Re: H. Ross Perot's proposed gas tax
Date: 7 Oct 92 15:41:55 GMT
Reply-To: bense@oasys.dt.navy.mil (Ronald Bense)
Organization: Carderock Division, NSWC, Bethesda, MD

In rec.autos.driving, c23st@kocrsv01.delcoelect.com (Spiros Triantafyllopoulos) writes:
>In article <Bvpus3.I0o@news.cso.uiuc.edu> tmkk@uiuc.edu (Khan) writes:

>Sure. Let us not forget that I've lived in one such country for 22 years,
...

OK, my folks lived there for 30+ years, my grandparents are either still
living there or died there.

>Second, nobody drives the phenomenal distances we drive here. I commute
>30 miles a day, one way, and am not the only one... In Europe, people think
...

Wrong. My father used to travel 2 *cities* over everyday to go to work.
About 50 miles. My mother traveled one city over, approximately 20 miles.
These were in the '50s. My grandfather, in the '30s and 40s traveled
30-35 miles every day to the office. My grandfather on my mother's side
traveled over much of Europe for his job, being on the road 20+ days
a month. He died in Germany in 1939 of a stomach ulcer. The rest all
lived in the Netherlands. They also weren't as unusual as you might
think. My grandmother on my fathers side traveled more than 15 km to
work (about 10 miles), for years, all the way until 1977 when she was
forced to retire due to being 10 years over the mandatory retirement
age in the first place.

>Also people drive MUCH more fuel efficient cars there in general. Over
>there a Honda Civic is a medium sized car. With cars over, say, 1600 cc
>(1.6l) being penalized to death in taxes, there's little incentive.

BS! What country were you in? The mercedes I drove while I was there
couldn't have gotten more than 14 mpg, and those other monsters I saw
in Germany (2.0 up to 5.0 l engines) couldn't have gotten much more,
with the way they were jack-rabbit starting at every light with full
throttle to what ever speed limit happened to be there. Gas was $3.90
a gallon.

Ron                          Think about this one (seen on a bumper sticker):
			     The road to hell is bumper-to-bumper
			     Make a U-turn to God.
The irony is priceless.
From: c23st@kocrsv01.delcoelect.com (Spiros Triantafyllopoulos)
Newsgroups: rec.autos.driving
Subject: Re: H. Ross Perot's proposed gas tax
Date: 9 Oct 92 13:54:57 GMT
Organization: Delco Electronics Corp.

In article <1992Oct7.155756.8653@dg-rtp.dg.com> goudreau@batman.rtp.dg.com (Bob Goudreau) writes:
>Ten years or so ago, Americans *were* paying over $1.50/gallon (in
>1992 dollars) for their gas.  Any arguments that Perot's $0.50/gallon
>increase would Revitalize Our Cities, Break the Backs of the Poor,
>Destroy the Automotive Industry, End Our American Way of Life, etc.,
>are thus simply not very plausible.

Ten years ago we were not faced with much higher taxes, social security
'contributions', state and local and property taxes, excise taxes, user
fees, or anything of that sort. Federal taxes have gone down a bit but
the other taxes have gone up. 

Are you going to tell me that disposable income has gone up as well?
Ten years ago color TV's were more expensive than today... People
still bought them...

Money magazine put out a good analysis of now vs, 20 years back or 10
years back. a few months ago. Good material.

Spiros
-- 
Spiros Triantafyllopoulos                    c23st@kocrsv01.delcoelect.com
Software Technology, Delco Electronics       striantafyll@kosds1.gm.hac.com
GM Hughes Electronics, Kokomo, IN 46904      [A Different Kind of Disclaimer]
From: c23st@kocrsv01.delcoelect.com (Spiros Triantafyllopoulos)
Newsgroups: rec.autos.driving
Subject: Re: Get rid of old cars, was...Ross perot gas tax.....
Date: 7 Oct 92 19:33:46 GMT
Organization: Delco Electronics Corp.

In article <26115@oasys.dt.navy.mil> bense@oasys.dt.navy.mil (Ronald Bense) writes:
>You can fix anything as long as you buy the manuals. Engines haven't
>changed that much, although the electronics are a bit tougher. Then
>again, the manuals are written so that a high school drop-out can follow
>them, so surely you can too. The only things you really need is a good
>multi-meter, preferably an analog one. (Digital makes it a little hard
>to observe fluctuations, but it can be done.) All that "you need $100k
>of computer crap t figure your car out is baloney.

As far as meters go, Fluke makes a couple specifically for engine control
type applications, with a bar graph etc. They're "in" here. They are in
the $80 or so range. They do mention automotive in their brochures.

For more sophisticated work, a scan tool for $300 (standalone or the
PC based one) is a good investment. 

In many instances the computer itself will tell you things by using 
the time honored paperclip method. 

Spiros


-- 
Spiros Triantafyllopoulos                    c23st@kocrsv01.delcoelect.com
Software Technology, Delco Electronics       striantafyll@kosds1.gm.hac.com
GM Hughes Electronics, Kokomo, IN 46904      [A Different Kind of Disclaimer]
From: kemasa@ghost.hac.com (Kemasa)
Newsgroups: rec.autos.driving
Subject: Re: H. Ross Perot's proposed gas tax
Date: 13 Oct 92 18:40:47 GMT
Organization: Natural Order Nature Experiments (N.O.N.E.)

In article <26309@oasys.dt.navy.mil> bense@oasys.dt.navy.mil (Ronald Bense) writes:
>In rec.autos.driving, nau@ssesco.com (William Nau) writes:
>>In article <23576@hacgate.SCG.HAC.COM>, kemasa@ghost.hac.com (Kemasa) writes:
>>|> Why does it seem strange that Perot complained that the government was
>>|> wasting money and then he goes on to say that we should INCREASE taxes?
>
>>You noticed that too?  I'm just waiting too see what he says about that.
>
>Because the debt needs to be paid also. Is this so hard to recognize?

Don't get it, do you? If the government is *wasting* money, then you attempt
to reduce the waste. If you reduce the waste, then you have more money to
spend. If you have more money to spend, then you can use it to reduce
the debt unless you feel like wasting it and starting the whole cycle
again.

If someone is wasting something, it is generally not a good idea to give
them more of it so they can waste it to. Understand?
-- 



						 Kemasa.

Insanity is the best defense.

Sierra Club Leader	NRA Life Member		Pro-freedom	Pro-choice

e-mail address: kemasa@ghost.hac.com
Newsgroups: rec.autos.driving
From: russell@cbnewsd.cb.att.com (russell.w.keating)
Subject: Stalker in moving mode?
Organization: AT&T
Distribution: usa
Date: Wed, 7 Oct 1992 13:43:26 GMT

Can the Stalker radar gun be used in a moving mode or is it a
stationary only unit?  I need to know what to expect :).
-- 
Russell Keating, N9LIL ------------> Send email to: russell1@ihlpb.ATT.COM
Newsgroups: rec.autos.driving
From: teek@kingcong.UWaterloo.ca (Prateek Dwivedi)
Subject: Re: One Incredible Drive!!!
Organization: University of Waterloo
Distribution: na
Date: Fri, 9 Oct 1992 14:10:23 GMT

The best drive you will ever find is the Cabot Trail in Nova Scotia...
(well... at least on this side of North America, don't know about the rest)
you might remember it from the Honda Accord commercial that salutes
the civil engineers.

It is fantastic... but ensure you have GREAT brakes, as I started losing
some hydraulic pressure on some of the downhill mountainous parts.

That drive was definitely the driving thrill of my life.

BTW: you WILL be stuck behind slow tourists.... so you have to but a little
gutsy at times.

-- 
Teek (Prateek Dwivedi)                  teek@kingcong.uwaterloo.ca
Research Assistant                      pdwivedi@systems.watstar.uwaterloo.ca
Flight Control Systems Group            (519)885-1211 x5314     Voice
University of Waterloo, Canada          (519)746-3077           Fax
Newsgroups: rec.autos.driving
From: lowry@watson.ibm.com (Andy Lowry)
Subject: Re: solution to deficits
Date: Tue, 13 Oct 1992 15:37:04 GMT
Distribution: usa
Disclaimer: This posting represents the poster's views, not necessarily those of IBM
Organization: IBM T.J. Watson Research Center

In article <Bw0xtK.1y0@ssesco.com> nau@ssesco.com (William Nau) writes:
 > What is a waste are those darn BUMP signs.  Hey, you put those
 > things where it's no worse than the rest of the road!  What fool
 > determined that this tiny bump deserves a sign where all those big
 > ones don't?  (small compared to the cost of roads, but he started
 > it :)

On some of the roads that I frequent around NYC, I'd prefer to see "NO
BUMP" signs warning me of the infrequent and potentially disorienting
stretches of smooth road surface.
--
Andy Lowry, lowry@watson.ibm.com, (914) 784-7925
IBM Research, P.O. Box 704, Yorktown Heights, NY  10598
From: c23st@kocrsv01.delcoelect.com (Spiros Triantafyllopoulos)
Newsgroups: rec.autos.driving
Subject: Re: H. Ross Perot's proposed gas tax
Date: 9 Oct 92 14:26:46 GMT
Organization: Delco Electronics Corp.

In article <Bvt1xG.CAw@news.cso.uiuc.edu> tmkk@uiuc.edu (Khan) writes:
>Spiros is even more unqualified. He thinks that because he was a grad
>student, he knows what it's like to be poor. What a joke! Most *truly*
>poor people would LOVE to be as rich as the typical grad student. How

at $6,000/year, grad students are below the poverty line. We also don't
get food stamps, aid to families with dependent children, etc. I had to
support two people on 6K/year for 1 1/2 year....

>many grad students live in a one bedroom apartment with 5 young
>children? 

Many of my friends had children and lived off campus, not on subsidized
campus housing. Their wives could sometimes work, but not on visitor
or student visas...

How many grad students have had their gas and electricity cut
>off because they couldn't afford to pay their bills that month? 

Happened to me. Watching the Bundy's on TV do bill fiddling brings back
memories...

How many
>grad students are without basic medical insurance? 

I was. for four years. Had to wait to do dental work when I visited
home once in a while...

Yet he thinks he
>knows what it's like to be poor. 

I don't *think*. I do know. Perhaps you could enlighten us with some
sad stories of your own? Here's some more of mine:

o	drove w/o insurance (not mandatory at the time :-)) 

o	borrowed to fly to interviews :-)

o	learned how to fix cars as I could not afford to give them for 
	fixing. (1972 corolla, what a feeling!!!)

o	etc etc etc

o	borrowed to the extent that i had to keep living like a grad
	student well after I started working...

> I'd laugh if it weren't so profoundly
>sad.

You can laugh all you want... Many of the effects of these years (82-85)
are still with my family now... But I won't convince you I guess.

>Nevertheless, we're unlikely to get a better perspective from anyone
>here, since few poor/working poor people have net access.

Spiros

-- 
Spiros Triantafyllopoulos                    c23st@kocrsv01.delcoelect.com
Software Technology, Delco Electronics       striantafyll@kosds1.gm.hac.com
GM Hughes Electronics, Kokomo, IN 46904      [A Different Kind of Disclaimer]
From: rjwade@rainbow.ecn.purdue.edu (Robert J. Wade)
Newsgroups: rec.autos.driving
Subject: Re: H. Ross Perot's proposed gas tax
Date: 16 Oct 92 14:23:26 GMT
Article-I.D.: noose.1992Oct16.142326.1033
Organization: Purdue University Engineering Computer Network

In article <1992Oct12.215134.17200@igor.tamri.com> salil@igor.tamri.com (Salil Saxena) writes:
>In article <1992Oct2.152835.6903@photon.com> jbn@photon.com (Joe Naiman) writes:
>>
>>In case you missed this morning's Wall Street Journal, Henry Ross Pee-rot
>>wants to have a Federal gasoline tax of 50 cents a gallon.
>
>But remember, this is over a 4 or 5 year period (i.e. about a 10 cent a gallon
>tax a year).  Considering that our gas prices are about half of what it is in
>Europe, this may not be all that bad.
>
>>Just thought you might like to be aware of this.
>>
>>
>>Joe Naiman
>


you-who, hello, WHO THE FUCK CARES WHAT EUROPE PAYS FOR GAS???  that has 
nothing to do with what we should pay for it.  can you say free-market...
ever take an econ class??  let the market determine the price for a comodity.
if europe has huge gas taxes that is their socialist problem.  this is america
buddy!!!!!