From: bazyar@teal.csn.org (Jawaid Bazyar)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.apple2
Subject: Re: The Perennial Piracy Debate (was Re: Bilestoad)
Date: 30 Jul 92 04:33:29 GMT
Organization: Colorado SuperNet, Inc.

payner@netcom.com (Rich Payne) writes:

>In article <bazyar.712366277@teal> bazyar@teal.csn.org (Jawaid Bazyar) writes:
>>payner@netcom.com (Rich Payne) writes:
>>
>>>In article <bazyar.711852801@teal> bazyar@teal.csn.org (Jawaid Bazyar) writes:
>>
>>>Wow, you know each and every pirate personally and can verify this?
>>>Do they also drive Mercedies? You need to learn to read. 
>>
>>  I'm telling you from personal experience, and from talking with a number
>>of IIgs software pirates, many of whom run BBSs.  Again, even if a
>>particular person is too poor to afford a $30 game (very unlikely),
>>does this mean that it is okay for him to pirate it?

>I've said it several times, but you ignore it and edit it out every time.
>I AM NOT AGRUING PIRACY AT ALL, you are. But not with me, with youreslf.
>And you do it by taking my post out of context and misreading. Chill out.
> 
>>>I need to check some numbers, but I bet that the claimed lost profits
>>>exceed the expendable income of America. If this is the case, the argument
>>>cannot be valid.
>>
>>  Why is that?  Let's say that Microsoft has sold 5 million copies of Windows.
>>Let's say that there are 40 million pirates copies in use.  That's $400mil
>>right there that morally and legally belongs to Microsoft.  Now, start
>>adding up all of the other heavily pirated packages for machines and
>>yes, I can see how you might very well achieve a number that exceeds the
>>amount of money Americans have to spend.  Does this mean then that since
>>technically it's not lost profits that these pirates aren't doing any harm
>>by pirating?  In addition, there's still a lot of money that Americans
>>_do_ have to spend that isn't going where it belongs.

>This is what I am arguing, the "lost profits" argument, as presented by the
>software industry. Any agrument which claims losses beyond expendable
>income in bogus. The money does not exist, and never did, how could it
>be lost?

>Piracy is another issue, which I will not argue about, and have -not- been
>talking about. 

>And who the hell are -you- to judge that "there's still a lot of money that 

   ^^^^^^^^^^
I thought we were going to chill out?

>Americans _do_ have to spend that isn't going where it belongs"? You have
>every right to make your own financial decisions, and less than no right
>to make them for others. It is none of your business.

  It _is_ my business if Joe Schmoe buys three $10 CD's, then decides
he "doesn't have enough money" to buy a game, so he pirates it.  But,
since I misread what you were saying earlier, we'll drop it.
  
>>  Yes, it's really me.  I got off on a tangent, one that's becoming 
>>very important to me.  I apologize if I insinuated anything about you
>>in particular, but it's sad to see any IIgs enthusiast _not_ come
>>up in arms against piracy.

>Yeah, just like the crusades. It is just as wrong to do evil in the name of
>fighting piracy as is to pirate itself. BTW, piracy did not kill the Apple //,
>Apple did. 

  I see. Apple killed the II with System 6.0.  They killed the II with
the Ethernet card.  They killed the II with the incredible, source-level
developer support from DTS.  That doesn't fly.  Developers left the II
for one reason: they couldn't make enough money on it.  Now, whether
"enough money" means > $10M or not even enough to cover development,
piracy is a big part of this problem.  DreamGrafix and Pick'n'Pile are
being sold, illegally, in France.  By ex-members of the FTA and Toolbox.
These people are almost universally worshipped here in the states, but
they're hardcore pirates and just as responsible as Apple (along with all
the other pirates) for developers leaving the II.  When new software is
distributed across the nation in two days, thousands upon thousands of
illegal copies, then there's a problem that needs to be addressed.
  Apple is at this point giving third party developers the opportunity
to take over the IIgs, in spirit if not in name or in new hardware.
That's awfully hard to do with pirates running around all over the place.
Let me give you an example.  I went to a user's group meeting in
Champaign, Illinois.  Someone there asked if they could make a photocopy
of the AppleWorks 3.0 manual, since theirs was "slightly warm".  It's
this kind of nonchalance, this kind of "well, piracy is bad, but it's
okay _sometimes_" that upsets me.  Piracy is _never_ okay. 
 
-- 
 Jawaid Bazyar              |   Ask me about the GNO Multitasking Environment
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