From: Dave Dal Farra <gpz750@bnr.ca>
Subject: Re: Preamp and Amp
X-Xxdate: Fri, 22 Jan 93 16:50:20 GMT
Organization: BNR Ltd.
X-Useragent: Nuntius v1.1.1d9
Date: Fri, 22 Jan 1993 16:41:00 GMT

In article <185084@pyramid.pyramid.com> Lon Stowell, lstowell@pyrnova.mis.
pyramid.com writes:

>>Additionally, there are two other groups:
>
>    Geez, man, what's this "groups" problem you have?  Aren't you
>    a bit old for this?

No prob's.  I was just trying to summarize both sides of the argument as
I perceived it, not pidgeon hole anyone.  If you knew me, you'd wouldn't
even question my outrage against group mentality and the mediocrity and
ignorance it nurtures.

>>a.  Those who believe CD's sound superior on the basis of lower noise,
>>    better seperation, etc.  i.e.  Lon.
>>    
>     WAtch putting words in my mouth.   YOu made a bs statement that
>     LP's have lower values.  

I did??  Talk about putting words in someone's mouth.  I too stated that CD
"numbers" are more favourable that of LP.


>     I merely said that those who claim numbers for LP are usually
>     full of baloney...the CD's NUMBERS are almost always better.

I agree.  Again.

>     How your twisted mind decided that was a statement on sound is
>     beyond me....particularly since the phrase "illusion" of better
>     imitation of live performance seems to have been mentioned
>     somewhere.

By you?  I truly am sorry if I missed that.

My twisted mind (I agree!) made that assumption since characteristics that
are easily quantified were the basis for your entire argument on
discrediting LP.  You never once said you felt CD was closer to the "real
thing", as far as i know: again, maybe I missed it.  I guess now I know you
feel it is.  Sorry if I made an incorrect assumption based on the only data
I gathered from your presentation.

>>b.  Those who can live with the vinyl noise only because they think 
>>    LP sounds closer to the real thing.  i.e. me.
 
> c.  There are also some people perfectly aware of the real numeric
>     differences in LP and CD who STILL prefer LP.  Most of these
>     actually know what they are talking about.   

Thanks!
   
>      No, its just that the LP bigot's constant use of the term to
>      describe ONLY those folks preferring LP's over CD's...

Actually. You're right, I tend to think along those lines.  It's just that
LP's superiority seems so obvious to me.  Maybe we have different criteria
in judging accuracy of replay, and neither of us is more "Golden-eared" or
"Pyrite-Eared"?  By the way, using your criteria, your irrepressible slam
against LP and its proponents (and, therefore, my "Pyrite ears") makes you
a CD bigot on equal footing with us "LP bigots".

>      insist on using $$$$ signs as a measure to boot is really
>      nauseating

You don't think more expensive equipment, in general, sounds more musical,
i.e. closer to the real thing?   Personally, I don't use $$$ as a measure
of anything except: If you're a good shopper, you get what you pay for.

I think you'd be surprised at how little I've paid for the end result
I've obtained; being an electrical engineer with formal training in audio
and acoustics gives me the benefit of being able to highly modify my gear
and get a lot of bang for the buck.

>       Particularly when the automatic assumption is
>      that those lacking the LP-gospel fervor are only those with
>      cheap playback equipment.

No, it's just that your vehement blasts against LP replay and what
you call "LP bigots" raise questions over your LP playback
equipment.  Myself and others have posted that we don't experience the
negative effects of LP replay any-where near to the extent you do.  Or maybe
that's not the case.  Maybe we're just not as bothered by them due to the other
benefits we hear in LP repro relative to CD.  Yes! "We hear";  I can't quantify
"why" we hear these benefits, as the available numbers don't bear our
observations out; I don't even feel compelled to try and formulate a "why"
response.  Like I've said, objective  measurements don't tell the full picture.
Never have.  Probably never will.

Time to cool off Lon.  Your continual insults weaken your arguments, which
could be quite interesting.

Dave Dal Farra
BNR Otta
Audio and Acoustics Group