From: GROSS@BCVMS.BITNET (Rob Gross)
Subject: Arms-Discussion Digest V10 #20
Reply-To: Arms-L Mailing List <ARMS-L@BUACCA.BITNET>
Organization: The Internet
Date: Wed, 11 Nov 1992 02:01:00 GMT

Subject: Arms Discussion Digest                                   V10 #20


From: Rob Gross (moderator)
 <GROSS@BCVMS.BITNET/GROSS@BCVMS.BC.EDU>
Tuesday, November 10, 1992, 20:59 EST
Arms Discussion Digest
Volume 10 : Issue 20

All submissions to ARMS-L@BUACCA.BU.EDU (ARMS-L@BUACCA.BITNET)
Please do not post articles, as they have a high probability
of being lost.

Today's topics:

  Re: Arms-Discussion Digest V10 #19 (Shane Deichman)
  When will we ever learn? (Wm. Michael Dante)
  Stealth Aircraft (Ed Blasinski)
  Re: Arms-Discussion Digest V10 #19 (Herb Lin)
  Re: Arms-Discussion Digest V10 #19 (agoins)

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Date: Sat, 7 Nov 1992 18:35 PDT
From: DEICHMAN@cisco.nosc.mil
Subject: Re: Arms-Discussion Digest V10 #19

The Russians have allegedly sold Iran two KILO-class submarines;
there are quite capable (as diesel-electric boats go), but maybe
not of the quality of a German Type 209 (which is another
favorite on the market).  More disturbing were the reports that
Iran was acquiring some Backfire bombers (Tu-22, I think) from
the former Sovs.  It turns out this, in addition to a lot of the
reports about Kazakhstan or Azerbaijan selling tactical nukes to
Iran, are just alarmist rumors with little basis in fact.  The
same goes for the KILOS -- despite widespread "assurances" that
the sales have gone down (even in popular literature like the 9
Nov 92 ed. of _U.S. News & World Report_), there is still some
uncertainty as to whether or not Rafsanjani will actually take
delivery.  Remember, Russia is the world's largest oil producer
(note that I didn't say EXPORTER --- we've recently read that
that distinction belongs to Saudi Arabia, with Iran recently
moving into second place), so Yeltsin has little need for Iranian
oil -- he desperately needs hard currency to get his economy out
of its coma and attempt to keep his inflation in the
single-digits (or risk losing valuable Western aid).

Despite the uncertain atmosphere of Iran's growing arsenal, two
things need to be made clear (one good, one bad).  The good is
that it takes more than just assets to create a world-class
military.  All the KILOs in the world won't help Iran one iota if
they don't have the infrastructure to support them (which
includes administration, training, maintenance, logistics, etc.).
Secondly, and more ominiously, the Russian need for hard currency
has brought them into the international arms bazaar with a
vengeance -- joining such steadfast suppliers of wares to Third
World regimes like France, Britain, and the world-leading United
States.  Russia is serious about selling a LOT of it's goods
which it considered at one time the sole property of the Red
Army.  As their economic troubles worsen, and their need for hard
currency is exacerbated, we can expect to see many more Russian
"deals" going down in the Third World.  Adding to this China's
willingness to sell ballistic missile technology, and the
renascent Sino-Russian technical "alliance," makes one big
proliferation problem....

What do the rest of you, in NetLand, think about this problem?
Is it a real problem demanding a First World solution?  Or can we
"deal with it," until such a time as it becomes necessary to swat
the wrist of an overly confident Third World despot who thinks
his supply of Western and Russian arms makes him unstoppable --
even by his suppliers (remember that Saddam chap in Baghdad?).

-shane
"deichman@nosc.mil"

<attach favorite disclaimer here>

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Date: Sun, 08 Nov 1992 16:09:34
From: dantewm@corsair.acq.osd.mil (Wm. Michael Dante)
Subject: When will we ever learn?

After WWI we disarmed.  In fact, we went on a pacifist binge that
led to WWII.  After WWII we disarmed.  That led to Korea where we
took heavy casualties because we were not prepared.  Now we seem
to be doing the same thing all over again.  We have won the cold
war and so we want to cash in our military capability to pay
ourselves a "peace dividend".  Aren't we just setting ourselves
up for another major war?  With the former Soviet Union unstable,
the Middle East presenting multiple dangers of conflict, a nasty
war continuing in Yugoslavia, and dozens of little wars breaking
out all over the world, is this the time to abandon our status as
the sole superpower?

--------------------

Date: Fri, 9 Oct 92 8:24:17 EDT
From: edb@bigmac.cns.BrockU.CA (Ed Blasinski)
Subject: Stealth Aircraft

Does anybody have any more information on a new type of
stealth aircraft sighted in the midwest U.S. ?

                                     Ed
                                     Communication Services
                                     Brock University
                                     edb@bigmac.cns.BrockU.CA

--------------------

Date: Mon, 09 Nov 92 09:52:00 EST
From: Herb Lin <HLIN@NAS.BITNET>
Subject: Re: Arms-Discussion Digest V10 #19

 > Date: Fri, 06 Nov 92 12:07:54 CST
 > From: Mark Card <N091BL@TAMVM1>
 > Subject: Russian subs sales
 >
 > Does anyone know what class submarines the Russians sold to Iran?
 > I assume they are diesel-electric ones, but it would be
 > interesting to find out whether they are Tangos or Foxtrots or
 > what?  Anybody out there know?
 > Mark T. Card
 > Texas A&M University

KILO class subs

herb

--------------------

Date: 09 Nov 1992 10:44:32 -0400 (EDT)
From: agoins <AGOINS@BROOK.BITNET>
Subject: Re: Arms-Discussion Digest V10 #19

I understand that the Russians sold Iran at least one (one report
says that two were sold, another says that one was sold and that
two more are on the way) Kilo class diesel submarine.

A. Goins


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End of Arms-Discussion Digest
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