From: d90-two@negru.nada.kth.se (Thomas Wolmer)
Newsgroups: alt.rock-n-roll,alt.rock-n-roll.metal,alt.config
Subject: Re: RFD: alt.rock-n-roll.hard
Summary: Create it. Stop flame. Be as happy as you can be in this fucking world
Date: 12 Apr 92 14:25:28 GMT
Organization: Royal Institute of Technology, Stockholm, Sweden

In article <92102.200215TJK115@psuvm.psu.edu> TJK115@psuvm.psu.edu writes:
>In article <1992Apr11.230809.2587@acsu.buffalo.edu>, becker@acsu.buffalo.edu
>(Don Becker) says:
>>
>>I would like to see the group alt.rock-n-roll.hard created for the following
>>reasons:
>>
>>        1.) On alt.rock-n-roll.metal, there is a long-running debate as
>>                to whether groups such as Guns N Roses and Def Leppard
>>                should be discussed on the group.
>>
>>        2.) Alt.rock-n-roll provides too broad a musical base for discussions
>>                of such groups to flourish.
>>
>What are the chances this will be made?  I have suggested this group
>be formed many times over the past year now.  Many other people have
>also suggested this also.  Of course will such a group solve anything?
>Will G'n'R fans and DL fans actually be willing to move into such a
>group?  Look at alt.r-n-r.metal.heavy, its purpose was to stop flame wars
>but it is a failure.  Fans critize people like me for continuing flame
>wars here, and insist I move to the heavy group, when even there bands
>like g'n'r and DL are still discussed to no end.
>
The chances are much bigger now when the discussion has reached alt.config.
It seems that NO subscriber to alt.r-n-r.metal knows anything about
newgrouping and control messages. Here there are kind people who can
help us... :-)
Yes I believe that most fans of GnR and Def Leppard will agree that these
groups are hard rock. See below...
And yes alt.r-n-r.metal.heavy really is a failure... it has wrong name.
*.metal.speed or so would be better.

>Secondly why is metal even a subgroup of r-n-r?  They are different
>types of music.  If metal was moved away in a group called alt.metal
>this will also tend to turn off the rate "posers" in the wrong newsgroup.
>
Once upon a time someone wanted to move the Metal discussion out of
alt.r-n-r, I suppose. And you can't deny that Metal has evolved from rock,
do you? Now when there is an established alt.music cathegory I guess that
the Metal newsgroup(s) would fit better there yes...

>Plus you also have people who have the attitude "if I feel its metal
>then it is." [...etc deleted]

>What is metal?  Its "kinda like the scent of a rose, with words you
>can't explain."  But just by comparison you can tell bands like g'n'r
>are not the same as bands like metallica.  Obviously there is some
>difference between the two, a rather large one in addition.  When
>I think of g'n'r I would classify them as a hard rock type of band.
>(I wouldn't go that far with def leppard, especially the new album)
>But still def leppard and a bunch of "glam" bands will fit much
>better into a category titled "hard" than one titled metal.
>
Agreed. And I believe that (most of) the fans of GnR/DL/etc also see the
difference, even if they don't think that the difference is the one between
Metal and non-Metal. However, somewhere in news.announce.newusers you
will find the line "USENET isn't perfect" (or something like that).
Hopefully they will accept alt.r-n-r.hard as a newsgroup for "their"
kind of music, even if the name isn't perfect. (Just a note here, to
Suaron personally... you maybe should think about that line too...:-)

>Also metal tends to dwell on the darker side of human nature. [... deleted]

Agree with most of it, but that isn't the most important thing in this
discussion...

>Until this happens I will continue to flame away (and that's a
>promise)!  Maybe that will get people to leave and form there
>own newsgroup, but also you must admit, it would be one hell
>of a boring place without a good flame war to liven things up
>abit.

Remember, Metallica will still be discussed in *.metal. And maybe we will
get some REAL mislead christian fanatic to save us...
I promise you, there will be flame wars... :-)


This is meant to be for the creation of alt.rock-n-roll.hard.

(And one more thing... When I say "GnR/Def Leppard fans" I don't mean that
they are some kind of enemies. I actually listen to some of that music
myself (maybe not those two groups) but I think it's hard rock and not metal)

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