HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: rrw@philabs.philips.com (Roger White)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: What are some famous actor's guns (i.e. James Bond's Walther)
Date: 25 Aug 92 21:20:25 GMT
Organization: Philips Laboratories, Briarcliff Manor, NY.

In article <1992Aug25.055441.18967@sserve.cc.adfa.oz.au> ghm@ccadfa.cc.adfa.oz.au (Geoff Miller) writes:
#mbh@sdphu1.ucsd.edu (Matt Harrington) writes:
#
[snip]

##		John Wayne's characters
#		    Nominally a Colt .45 (in most cases), actually
#		    I think it may have been a Great Western replica

Well, I ain't a bettin' man but if I was I'd bet that in his westerns, the
handguns were Colt SAA's probably chambered in 44-40 and as a companion long
gun, a Winchester Model 92 SRC also in 44-40.  This was apparently a common
combination so you'd only need one type of cartridge.  Also, I suspect he was
making westerns long before Great Western was a gleam in somebody's eye.

Take care,

Rog

[snip]
From: cbl@uihepa.hep.uiuc.edu (Chris Luchini)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Ed Harris on mini-14 conversions
Date: 2 Sep 92 19:04:03 GMT
Organization: High Energy Physics, University of Illinois, Urbana-Champaign

In article <9209012048.AA21277@gyre.cs.UMD.EDU>, wmartin@STL-06SIMA.ARMY.MIL (Will Martin) writes:
#
#Several people recently have mentioned disappointment in the accuracy of 
#the Mini-14, especially if compared with an AR-15 or clone. For their 
#information, I cite an ad that has been on the front page of Shotgun News
#for several issues (at least) recently:
#
#"MINI-14 OWNERS: Our match quality heavy bbl. conversion will turn your
#'Mini' into a one M.O.A. weapon. SASE for brochure to: Accuracy Rifle
#Systems, PO Box 13772, Odessa, TX 79768"

	Ed Harris was asked that question over on Fido-net, and his
	response was that he had fooled around with the idea while
	he worked for Ruger, and came to the conclusion that you could
	buy a AR-15 of comparable quality to the converted/accurized
	Mini-14 for the price of the conversion. 

*1110 W. Green/Urbana IL 61801/217-333-0505/cbl@uihepa.hep.uiuc.edu 
* for sale: Springfield Armory Factory Comp, 38 Super, +3 mags. All new
* in box (never fired at all).  $650 or best offer over $600 as of Sep 30.
From: hays@ssd.intel.com (Kirk Hays)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: Recommendation for bullet-proof vest wanted.
Date: 2 Sep 92 01:27:09 GMT
Organization: Intel Supercomputer Systems Division

In article <9209011540.AA25225@elroy.Jpl.Nasa.Gov>, minh@inst-sun1.jpl.nasa.gov (Minh Lang) writes:
|> Hi, I'm looking for info/comment/recommendation/source for a bullet-proof
|> vest. It should be thin enough to be worn under normal clothing,
|> should be able to stop handguns bullet up to .357 magnum and knife.

#From what I've seen over the years, stopping both bullets and knives is 
a conflicting requirement, unless you go to something really bulky.

-- 
Kirk Hays - NRA Life.
Start your day with a little civil disobedience.  Call BATF at 1-800-ATF-GUNS or
1-800-RUN-GUNS, tell them what you think of gun grabbers and government employees
that encourage people to narc on their neighbors.  Good for the soul.
From: jlw@mtuxo.att.com (Joseph L Wood, Iii)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: Why a sawed-off shotgun?
Date: 4 Sep 92 16:45:40 GMT
Organization: AT&T

In article <1992Sep4.091739.3877@henson.cc.wwu.edu> n9020351@henson.cc.wwu.edu (James Douglas Del-Vecchio) writes:
# ems@michael.apple.com (E. Michael Smith) writes:
# 
# #In article <1992Sep1.161520.18710@henson.cc.wwu.edu> n9020351@henson.cc.wwu.edu (James Douglas Del-Vecchio) writes:
# ##ems@michael.apple.com (E. Michael Smith) writes:
# ##
# ###I don't know if the 'military' has, but I know at least one Vet who
# ###did...  His name was Terry something-or-other and we worked together
# ###some years ago.  His favorite thing to carry in the Vietname jungle
# ###was a double barrel 12 guage sawed off to about a 1-2 inch barrel.
# ##

In Viet Nam I personally carried an M79 Grenade Launcher which is
basically a 40mm sawed-off, single-shot shotgun.  I carried a buckshot
round up the spout normally for terminal defense and had a web
vest with ammo pockets and usually carried a flare, a couple of
HE rounds, and the rest buckshot.  As a sidearm I also carried
a fixed-up government model 1911A1.  I had the Direct Support
Maintenance Company which gave me access to tons of small arms
parts and expertise.  For example, my small arms staff sergeant was
an armourer for the Infantry AMTU in Benning on his stateside rotations.


Another Lieutenant I knew had sawed off the barrel of an M60 MG.
I don't know if he ever fired it.

Joe Wood
jlw@mtuxo.att.com
From: cbl@uihepa.hep.uiuc.edu (Chris Luchini)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: P-7 Velocities
Date: 28 Aug 92 01:21:04 GMT
Organization: High Energy Physics, University of Illinois, Urbana-Champaign

In article <9208262316.AB13577@NMSU.Edu>, loki@acca.nmsu.edu writes:
#
#Chris Luchini recently shook my faith (only slightly) in one of my favorite
#handguns, the H&K P-7.  He alleged (probably from his own chronograph tests)
#that the gas action of the P-7 robs a noticible fraction of velocity from
#the projectile, as opposed to browning type actions.  Does anyone else have
#any firm data on this?  Or could you post yours, or a reference, Chris?
#
#--Dan

	Hmmm I can't find my file with the extensive test I did with
	the HK, but I found velocities with standard loads to be
	~50 fps lower in the P7M8 than in my firestar, and with
	hot loads (ie my own, or Corbon Commercial loads) to be about
	~75fps lower than in my firestar. Since the Firestar does
	1225 with 115 grain corbon (9mm) and the Hi-power/Sig226 did
	1275 (Glock ~1300) loosing another ~75fps is not going to be 
	a good thing. I was so amazed at the Corbon measuring so low
	that I called Corbon and had them check out the lot of ammo.
	It checked out ok (?) so I assume we just have a bunch of slow
	guns. BTW this #'s were checked both with a chrony and a 
	Pact chronograph. Unfortunatly the HK #'s are from memory, so 
	don't bet the farm on them. If I get a chance next week, I'll chrony
	some more loads through the HK, and post the results.
-c
*1110 W. Green/Urbana IL 61801/217-333-0505/cbl@uihepa.hep.uiuc.edu 
* for sale: Springfield Armory Factory Comp, 38 Super, +3 mags. All new
* in box (never fired at all).  $690 or best offer over $600 as of Sep 30.
From: rrubert@netman.intel.com
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: 10mm information
Date: 30 Aug 92 23:13:01 GMT


#  From Rick Bressler bressler@iftccu.ca.boeing.com 

#The 10 probably has some real drawbacks as a defense round.  I say probably 
#because there are undoubtably people out there that love it.

At least one.
 
#First it is too powerful for most of us.  The recoil is such that it isn't 
#real quick to shoot.  It is only in the movies where the 'giant blast' 
#really counts.    

Recoil from even the full house 10mm loads is less punishing than a 4 inch
full house 125 grain .357. A range of loads are offered commercially
for 10mm. If you can't find one that is comfortable, better stick to 
.22 lr.

 
#Secondly, if you look at the characteristics  of successful semi auto rounds, 
#you will find that they all have some things in common.  Most important 
#is that they are all relatively 'stubby' rounds.  

According to my manuals the 10mm aspect ratio (length to diameter) is 
less than the 38 super and a third less than a mildly successful
semi-auto round called 308 Winchester.

 
#The design of the 10, (relatively long, straight sided  etc.)  make it 
#inherently less reliable in an auto.  

In fact it is easier to build a mechanism to chamber a long thin round
than a fat stubby one. There is some advantage to using a pointy bullet
(thinner at the front). The downside is size not reliability.
 
#The answer to all this was the 40 S&W.   A shorter round that would feed
#better, and had less recoil.

The forty short and weak is the ballistic twin of the 10mm light load
and uses the same projectile. The 40 S&W's only attraction is magazine
capacity vs size.
 
#On the other hand, if you just want to play with the round, as opposed 
#to using it as a serious self defense caliber, you may have a lot of 
#fun with it.

Perhaps a better way to put it is if you have small hands or need 15
rounds not 9 in a magazine and if you never need more than minimal
power or need to conceal a weapon in your swim trunks then a 40 S&W
may be for you.

If on the other hand you are normal sized (6ft:), and want a choice
of power levels then the 10mm can be a great choice.

I had a .45 Springfield 1911a1. The 45 is as short and stubby as you
can get. Jams were a matter of course and bullet shape was critical.
I sold it and got a S&W 1006 (10mm semi-auto). It handles the law-
enforcement squib loads and the full house norma loads equally well.
It has only jammed with some very light hand loads. It is accurate
and reliable. I feel much better with it around the house or in the
woods than I could with the 1911a1.

 
#Rick.


Rod Rubert

who speaks for himself and not others.
From: viking@iastate.edu (Dan Sorenson)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: stupid shooter tricks
Date: 3 Sep 92 00:12:08 GMT
Organization: Iowa State University, Ames IA

In <m0mPpIK-0001xVC@rose.com> mike.federchuk@rose.com writes:

#Another infamous chap at my club bought himself a semi-automatic shotgun,
#after shooting a super-imposed hinge-gun for years.  Since it was 
#"convenient", he decided to load five shells into the gun, on station one.  
#He broke the high house, broke the low house, broke the double, 
#then stepped off the station with his "repeat"-shell chambered and ready
#to go; safety off!  When the cries of "SAFE THAT GUN!!" from his shooting
#buddies caused him some alarm; he racked open the action.  Out popped the
#shell.  Now he loads according to the rules.

	I should hope so!  A few incidents like that and he'd find fewer
and fewer shooting buddies at the range, and deservedly so.

#Two skeet clubs in my area have even proposed banning pump and semi-automatic
#shotguns, on the grounds that it is too difficult to tell if the action is
#open!  The Caliden club may even be enforcing this ban.

	This is somewhat silly.  A pump or autoloader is safe when the
bolt is open and the gun is on the table or at rest.  I can certainly see
where there might be some fright that there is a round in the magazine and
a closing bolt would load it, but I find this no different than a bolt-action
or break-open gun that isn't open or broken.  Treat them as if they are
always loaded, use the open bolt to confirm it's not ready to shoot.  If
the chances are still considered too great, a wooden dowel placed in the
chamber sideways (so it sticks out the side a few inches) will certainly
show a safe weapon.

#Sadly, I could go on and on with tales of un-safe gun handling. :-(

	I'd like to tell one of very safe gun handling.  Don Baldwin came
out of California last weekend and visited Iowa, hopefully with the intent
of coming back soon.  I was showing him the collection, of course, and I
handed him my favorite handgun.  It's a Ruger Old Army, .45 black powder,
6-shot percussion-cap revolver.  I had just checked the chambers and also
for caps, then handed the gun to him butt-first.  The first thing Don
asked was, "How do you safe this thing?" while peering at the back of the
cylinder, fingers well away from the trigger.  I just safed it right in
front of him, and he's going to safe it again when it's handed to him.
Good man!  Precautions like that can make shooting a less hazardous joy.

<Dan Sorenson, DoD #1066 |"There'll be angels on Ariels in leather>
<z1dan@exnet.iastate.edu | and chrome, Ridin' down from heaven    >
<viking@iastate.edu      | just to carry me home." -- R. Thompson >
< ISU thinks I need more education, which they provide for a fee. >
From: wjc@ll.mit.edu (Bill Chiarchiaro)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: Stupid shooter tricks
Date: 26 Aug 92 21:43:24 GMT
Organization: MIT Lincoln Laboratory, Lexington MA


In article <9208242104.AA04704@gtephx.com>, forda@gtephx.UUCP (Andrew Ford @ AGCS, Phoenix, Arizona) writes:
|> 
|> ...stuff deleted...
|> 
|> There was a store in the Arizona Republic last year with a similar 
|> situation.  A 16 yr old boy was sitting in his room playing with
|> a bullet (I think it was a 9mm or .45).  He hit the end of the 
|> cartridge and it discharged sending the bullet throught the wall
|> an into his mother (she was only mildly injured).  
|> 
|> ...stuff deleted...
|> 


   Perhaps this is getting to be an old tune, but the findings of
Major General Julian Hatcher indicate a high probability that the boy,
or his mother, or both were lying to cover up a more-embarassing
truth.  If the bullet penetrated a wall and wounded the mother, then a
chamber and barrel were no doubt involved.

  See _Hatcher's Notebook_ (available from Brownell's, Dillon
Precision, and others) or _The NRA Firearms Fact Book_ (available from
NRA).

  For those who don't know, Julian Hatcher was a great character.
Besides being a big wheel in U.S. Army Ordnance and a highly-respected
firearms expert, he was also quite an experimenter.  He actually
performed tests to answer a number of age-old gun questions such as:

	How long will it take a bullet fired vertically to return to
      earth?

	What happens when you fire a gun under water?

	What happens when you fire a cartridge outside a chamber?

	What's the result of lighting a fire underneath a can of
      smokeless powder?


Happy Reading,

Bill Chiarchiaro
wjc@ll.mit.edu
From: malodah@pbhyf.pacbell.com (Martin A. Lodahl)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: stupid shooter tricks
Date: 1 Sep 92 20:32:59 GMT
Organization: Pacific * Bell, San Ramon, CA

In article <1992Sep1.021155.4706@bbxrbk> bbx!bbxrbk!russ@unmvax.cs.unm.edu (Russ Kepler) writes:

#Someone got kicked out of the city range here in Albuquerque for
#unsafe handling recently.  I am not privy to the full story, but
#evidently he was handling his firearm while folks were downrange and
#wouldn't stop when told to. Other antisocial behaviours were
#denomstrated until the fellow was escorted from the range and told not
#to come back. 
#
#Seems strange to me that someone would *want* to argue with a bunch of
#armed folks at a firing range, but hey - it wasn't me.

This always used to baffle me, too.  I rangemastered a large club range
for a year or so, and every couple of weeks we'd get a shooter who
was belligerent, often drunk, and hadn't the sense that God gave geese.
We had a strict policy about drinking before shooting, and would
escort them off the premises immediately.  I'd always try to educate
the sober-but-unsafe ones, but they'd hardly ever listen.  I still
can barely believe that someone would open fire with people downrange
changing targets, but it happened.  I felt the wind from that one.
She wondered why we were so upset ...

I finally reached the point where I'd recruit a couple of volunteer 
assistants, and when the line was called down, one would supervise the
target changing and one would stand about 15 yards downrange with a red
flag, while I'd patrol the line and keep shooters well away from their 
guns.  Experienced shooters were never a problem, but were also never
the majority, on weekends.
-- 
= Martin A. Lodahl    [DoD, AHA, NRA]  Systems Analyst, Pacific*Bell =
= malodah@PacBell.COM		Sacramento, CA, USA     916.972.4821 =
= If it's good for ancient Druids, runnin' nekkid through the wuids, =
= Drinkin' strange fermented fluids, it's good enough for me!!  8-)} =
From: pauly@netcom.com (Paul Yoshimune)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Concealed carry...
Date: 27 Aug 92 13:22:44 GMT
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services  (408 241-9760 guest)

Okay - let's assume that we're past the legal, psychological, ethical, etc.
questions about carrying a concealed firearm.  Whether it's legal or not, say
one has decided to carry for one's own safety.

What is the best type of holster to use?  Where is the best place to carry
(side, front, back, shoulder)?  Any specific models that are particularly
outstanding?

Note that the firearm in question is a 5-inch government model.  I was thinking
something along the lines of an inside-the-pants holster located at one's
back.  Feasible?  Or is trying to conceal a full size auto (on a small person
nonetheless) complete folly?

-- 
DVC,
  Paul

Paul Yoshimune
pauly@netcom.com
From: JEFFD@elmer.hls.com (Dempsey, Jeff)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Choices AR-15 or M1A
Date: 2 Sep 92 19:04:16 GMT



	I am curious, has anyone in this group thought about the life span for
the .40S&W?  I see or rather hear Law Enforcement is hot on the idea, but will
that fact insure the cartridges long life?  Also consider the availability of
ammunition, versus a .45 or 9mm.  The later two have a histo9{y as military
calibers all over the world.  I like the .45, I am just questioning the mass
rush to a new item. 

	Is it true that the .40 duplicates the ballistics of the better .45
ammo, and if so what load are they talking about.  I use Federal Hydrashox, but
have a new box of Corbon 200 grainers that I have not tried yet.  The Corbon
uses the Speer "Flying Ashtray" HP.  When I purchase another Glock model 21 I
will head to the range to test the Corbons.

	One other area I am seeking help.  I am thinking of purchasing a rifle,
the choices are Bushmaster AR-15 or a Springfield M1A National Match.  I have
plans for both, one is some type of Optical sight.  I also know of a compnay in
Arizona that can do some amazing things with the M1A, like a bullpup M1A.  To
have them work on the M1A would cost enough for me to outfit the AR-15 with a
Elcan sight.  The AR-15 would cost approx. $900.  The Elcan sight can be
purchased through U.S. Cavalry for about $800.  The combined prices equal what
a acurized M1A would run but without any optical sight.  I should also mention
that both rifles are capable of sub MOA, the rifles are but I need some time
with whatever one I purchase before I could demonstrate that accomplishment.

	I have rambled long enough, once all is said and done I still do not
know what I will purchase.  I will eventually decide and will post that
decision.  Email to me as Jeffd@hls.com.


[MODERATOR:  Your Humble Moderator doesn't see why anyone would take a 
perfectly good M1A and change it to bullpup.  As the poster notes, this
would be an "amazing thing", so I guess he and I are in accord .... :-)
To head off a glut of the usual followup postings, let me get the two most
common responses articulated right here: (1) "Which? It depends.  What do you
want to use it for?" and (2) "Get both!"  Finally, coming to the defense
of accurized M1As everywhere (having just spent the morning on my belly with 
one dropping 168gr HPBTs through the Xring of the 600 yard target), "get the
real rifle!"]
From: smpod@venus.lerc.nasa.gov (Stefan)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Gun Review magazine
Date: 2 Sep 92 19:04:51 GMT
Organization: who knows

# Is is possible for people on the other side of the pond to subscribe to Guns
# Review?

# Do you have their address and would Gun Review accept credit cards?

Address yes: Circulation Dept, Guns Review, Standard House, Bonhill
St, London, EC2A 4DA, England.

Credit cards, don't know. The magazine doesn't mention them. I'd phone
them but being a student it's difficult for me to get an outside line.
Can you fax them and suggest that they consider credit cards? Fax
number: + 44 638 8497. Oh, here it it. It says, "Net amount due in
sterling on London. If payment is made in a currency other than
sterling, please add L2.50 sterling rate prior to conversion." Maybe
you can just send them a cheque (check :-) made out in US$. (Dollar's
having a hard time of it right now, isn't it?)
From: cmort@ncoast.org (Christopher Morton)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: What are some famous actor's guns (i.e. James Bond's Walther)
Date: 26 Aug 92 21:43:10 GMT
Organization: North Coast Public Access *NIX, Cleveland, OH

As quoted from <1992Aug25.055441.18967@sserve.cc.adfa.oz.au> by ghm@ccadfa.cc.adfa.oz.au (Geoff Miller):

# 		    Sniper rifle (can't remember make) in Living Daylights

Walther WA2000.  Usually in .300 Win. Mag.  Gonna buy me one now...? :)



-- 
------------------------------------------------------------------  

"Well whose opinions did you THINK these were...?" 
------------------------------------------------------------------  
"It's 11:59pm, do you know where your congressman's checkbook is?"
------------------------------------------------------------------ 
Christopher Morton
{uunet|backbone}!ncoast.org!cmort                      cmort@ncoast.org
From: HODGSONT@QUCDN.QueensU.CA (Jake Hodgson)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Kevlar wet/dry effectivness ref. request
Date: 1 Sep 92 13:16:33 GMT
Followup-To: sci.military
Organization: Queens University at Kingston


 
    Hello,
 
    I need some information in a hurry for a friend of mine...
 
 
    Specifically, I am looking for a hard reference (no fof or 'i heard's'
   Please) which outlines the difference in the effectivness of Kevlar
   (or other aramid) ballistic vests when the vest is dry or wet.
 
   I 'have heard'  that there is a big difference between the wet and dry
   performance, but I need a good reference (or better SEVERAL references)
   to back up this memory.
 
   Please include sufficient information that I can send for the paper if
   I need to.   I'd be happy just for a quick summary of findings and
   a basic reference (Author, title, where publishied, when published.)
 
   This is going to be used to point out the situation (assuming I have
   remembered it correctly) to decission making types so the more 'lofty'
   the source and the more complete the info the better. (not that I have
   any such snobbery myself, but it's a matter of the right tools forthe
   job-- ANY hard info would be greatly apreciated!)
 
   As always, unless you think there is sufficient interest please email me
   directly.   If I get enough info to make it worthwhile, I'll post a
   summary to both rec.guns and sci.military.
 
   Thanks in advance
                                               Warm Hearth!
                                                     Jake
 
Jake Hodgson____________________________________________________________
HODGSONT@QUCDN.QUEENSU.CA               |  All skill is in vain when
Disclaimer: It must be my doing because |  an angel pisses in the
            THIS bunch won't take       |  touchhole of your musket.
            responsibility for ANYTHING |  -old German proverb
From: ian@Centric.COM (Ian Macky)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Anaconda quality?
Date: 26 Aug 92 21:43:58 GMT
Organization: Centric Engineering Systems

I've been thinking about a Colt Anaconda (.44 Magnum).  I love my Python and
thought the Anaconda was a beefier, scaled-up version with the same quality.

I was surprised when pricing them yesterday that the Anaconda costs about
the same as the King Cobra (~$350), instead of the same as a Python (~$700).

The obvious conclusion is the Anaconda is not the same quality as a Python.
Is that the case?  It seems the Anaconda is Colt's only .44 model?  How sad.

--ian
From: loki@acca.nmsu.edu
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Steyr AUG-SA for sale w/LH bolt
Date: 2 Sep 92 19:04:23 GMT


Well, the first round of offers dried up...

I have a Steyr AUG-SA for sale.  20" barrel, green stock, 5 magazines,
both left and right handed bolts, circle reticle scope.  It is in excellent
condition, except for some scratches on the bottom of the pistol grip,
caused by shooting from a concrete bench.  I will sell the LH bolt 
separately, but only after I have sold the gun itself.  Last I checked, 
Volmers was asking about $1700 for this weapon, with one clip and no LH
bolt.  Clips are in the $30 to $40 range, and Volmers says they sell the
LH bolts for $175... when they have them.  I will consider offers over $1800
for the entire package.

Send me email if you're interested.

--Dan

"Master... Master...                       (To The Tune of Metallica's)
	Master of Science is your degree.  ('Master of Puppets')
	You're too dumb for a PhD.              loki@acca.nmsu.edu
	Should have studied for the GRE!    dftaylor@cechem.colorado.edu