HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: jacobs@cs.utah.edu (Steven R Jacobs)
Subject: Re: Black jack "even" question:
In-reply-to: rhoge1@esk.compserv.utas.edu.au's message of Mon, 12 Oct 92 04:41:48 GMT
Organization: University of Utah CS Dept
Date: 12 Oct 92 07:08:59

In article <1992Oct12.044148.22449@cam.compserv.utas.edu.au> rhoge1@esk.compserv.utas.edu.au ([Robert James Hoge]) writes:
>
> Hi all.
> I have a question about playing black jack.
> I have my own set for black jack; a table, 6 decks of cards, the
> card holder and chips.  I am always the banker and we mainly play
> for fun.  No illegal gambling of course.  Now I am uncertain of a
> rule, which I hope some of you can help me with.
>
> If I (the dealer) get 18, and an other player has 18, I know I have
> to sit and pay up anyone who is closer to 21 than I am.  But, do I
> pay the player with the same amount as me, or take his money, or
> leave him his money?  There are too many arguments about this when
> we play and I really need to clear this up.

Virtually all casinos allow the player to keep the bet when there
is a "push".  Taking the player's bet gives the casino a huge edge
(something like 9%).  Paying the player on pushes would give the
player this same huge edge.

> I play in Australia, the state is Tasmania and the casino house rules
> are the dealer must hit on 16, sit on 17, and pay black jack double. 
> Insurance is 3 to 2.  There can be 7 players at one table plus any
> number of external players.  That is all that I can think of, and
> thanks in advance.

Typical casino rules are to pay 3 to 2 for blackjacks and 2 to 1
for insurance.  Twisting these around gives the player about 2.4%
additional edge from blackjacks and makes insurance a terrible awful
disgusting bet rather than just a bad bet.
--
Steve Jacobs  ({bellcore,hplabs,uunet}!utah-cs!jacobs, jacobs@cs.utah.edu)
"Be afraid.  Be very afraid.  I have K-10 offsuit...."
From: cii6712@uxa.ecn.bgu.edu (Patrick Sullivan)
Newsgroups: rec.gambling
Subject: RE: Baseball
Date: 13 Oct 92 21:00:56 GMT
Organization: Educational Computing Network

Tomorrow, the Bluejays and Athletics are playing game six of the ALCS.  Who,
in your opinion, is going to win this game and why?  Pat Sullivan
From: jack.mcgee@ehbbs.gwinnett.com (Jack Mcgee)
Newsgroups: rec.gambling
Subject: Red Lion
Date: 15 Oct 92 21:23:00 GMT
Reply-To: jack.mcgee@ehbbs.gwinnett.com (Jack Mcgee)
Organization: Ed Hopper's BBS - Berkeley Lake, GA - 404-446-9462

Chuck,
I tried to send you e-mail, but it got returned to me for reasons I
can't explain. I want to pick your brain a little more about the Red
Lion deal.  This particular deal is $179 2 nights air/hotel.  I called
them and got some more details. You said that you had to show a $400
bankroll, she said nothing about that, just that they want you to do all
your gambling in the Red Lion, and not spend your time at the nickel
slots.  There was no "invitation", unless you count an ad in the paper
as one.  Maybe you got a different deal? Can you expound?  If you can
answer any of the following I'd be much appreciative!

 -  How long ago did you go?
 -  Are most of the customers there wearing the  badges/buttons? She
    said the plane was a 737, and I saw an ad saying the hotel only had
    225 rooms. They could bring in a full planeload every day, and keep
    the place packed.
 -  She also said they want you to do all your gambling at the Red
    Lion. How do they enforce this?  I'd at least like to move around a
    little and see the other places, even if I don't gamble.
 -  Maybe I'm overly worried about this, but I have no idea what they
    are expecting in terms of bankroll.  What happens if I shoot my wad
    the first night?

Again, thanks.


 * SLMR 2.1a * Turn your clocks back ... the Supreme Court is in session

 * SLMR 2.1a * Turn your clocks back ... the Supreme Court is in session
                                                                                                                          
Newsgroups: rec.gambling,news.answers
From: ray@philmtl.philips.ca (Ray Dunn)
Newsgroups: rec.gambling
Subject: Re: Roulette system(s)
Date: 8 Oct 92 00:11:18 GMT
Organization: On the Brew.

In referenced article, yasu@ll.mit.edu (Alan Yasutovich) writes:
>	Another article from the terminally illiterate.

and in another he blusters:

>	Can't you read? 

It seems to me that the terminally illiterate is the person who managed to
contradict themselves within 6 lines:

>>>	Wouldn't it be a wonderfully agressive strategy to bet...

>>>	But one zero every so often kills the whole thing.

and who is mathematically illiterate in believing that:

>>>	There are specific numers that don't come in for thousands of spins

and who believes it would only be the _zero_ that would kill such a
strategy.

Clearly he did believe these things, otherwise there was no reason to post
the article in the first place.

What is silliest of course is that we all post a stupid unthinking article
from time to time, but most people don't start yelling at everybody _else_
for their slip.
-- 
Ray Dunn at home        |  Beaconsfield, Quebec  |  Phone: (514) 630 3749
ray@philmtl.philips.ca  |  dunn@cam.org          |  uunet!sobeco!philmtl!ray
Newsgroups: rec.gambling
Subject: Re: Las Vegas crowd levels
From: mbuck@fibers (Michael D. Buck)
Date: 8 Oct 92 11:45:20 CST


Newsgroups: rec.gambling
From: rhoge1@esk.compserv.utas.edu.au ([Robert James Hoge])
Subject: Black jack "even" question CORRECTION:
Organization: University of Tasmania at Launceston
Date: Tue, 13 Oct 92 01:09:49 GMT

Thank you for all the replies.  I played it again last night when I noticed
my mistake in my last posting.

Insurance is not 3-2 and Black jack is not 2-1.

			it is:

Insurance 2-1 and Black jack 3-2.

Sorry and thanks again!


-- 
 _--_|\  Finland,  ______________________________________________________       /      \ America, / [Robert James Hoge]  rhoge1@esk.compserv.utas.edu.au \      \_.--._/  France, \______________________________________________________/      
      v <-------   UNIVERSITY OF TASMANIA, LAUNCESTON, A U S T R A L I A.        ---------------------------------------------------------------------------    / "Tasmania is so small, that we have a fraction for a zip code, really!"   \   
\ "I'm not finished" -Edward Scissorhands.  I am *the*  S M E G H E A D !   /    ---------------------------------------------------------------------------    No, I'm not married!  But believe me if I was, I'd rather have the $50,000!!
#################################################################################                           this section vacant                                #################################################################################
From: yasu@ll.mit.edu (Alan Yasutovich)
Newsgroups: rec.gambling
Subject: Video Poker
Date: 15 Oct 92 14:19:17 GMT
Organization: MIT Lincoln Laboratory


	I just dropped all the poker systems in the mail

	Here are the people I sent it to.

	It should arrive by Monday????


Mike Markiw                              (602) 965-4611
Lance Ogasawara, Room 1C404
John R. Cobarruvias
Ron Birnbaum
David Chapman
Dave Mackmiller
Dennis Jeske
Michael Ginsberg
Mike Stevenson
Hongyu Ximen
P. Makurat
Jim Napier
-- 
	Alan Yasutovich
	"inquiring  (and nosey) minds WANT TO KNOW!!!"
	I can remember when "safe sex" meant having a padded headboard!!
	Tick Tock.....Tick Tock......Tick Tock .....Tick Tock......
From: napier@cs.ucsd.edu (Jim Napier)
Newsgroups: rec.gambling
Subject: Payoffs in video poker
Date: 15 Oct 92 15:56:56 GMT
Organization: AMES Dept., UC San Diego



Is there any reason to believe that video poker machines pay off less at
some times than others (other than the ebb and flow of statistics based on
how the cards would normally come up if you were dealing them yourself)?
The reason I ask is that when I was in Laughlin last week I played quite
a bit of video poker for the first time and I noticed that when the casino
was very active and the machines were getting a lot of use they seemed to
be paying off less. But the times I played on less crowded days like on
the weekdays or early in the morning I had no trouble winning between $20
and $40 in a short stretch each time. I don't know much about the workings
of slots in casinos but the real slots are fixed to pay off only a certain
percentage overall so you'd expect to see less payoffs when they've been
played heavily. But I thought these poker machines paid off realistically
based on the random distribution of cards dealt. That is to say they don't
necessarily *pay off* the true odds on getting a particular hand. But the
odds of getting a hand are the same as if you were dealing the cards 
yourself. So for example the machines aren't fixed to deal a smaller 
percentage of full houses then you'd statistically expect to see dealt.
If so, then was what I observed just a coinidence or were there some other
factors involved? Thanks.

-- 
==============================================================================
Jim Napier
Systems Administration
Applied Mechanics & Engineering Sciences Dept.
UC San Diego
(619)534-5414
jnapier@ucsd.edu

"Even if life were a bed of roses, you'd still have to deal with the thorns."
==============================================================================
==============================================================================
Jim Napier
Systems Administration
Applied Mechanics & Engineering Sciences Dept.
From: calvinj@ecs.comm.mot.com (Calvin Jestice)
Subject: Re: Las Vegas crowd levels
Organization: control_centers
Date: Fri, 9 Oct 1992 13:27:56 GMT

Oh, I get it.  Network charades!

Ok the subject is how crowded is Vegas during the rodeo?

Ummmmm,  two words ....

First word ....   two syllables ...  sounds like ....

Beek!  sounds like beek?  OK.

Peak?

Squeak?
       
Creek?

Freak?  FREAK?!?!?  OK.

Second syllable ...  is a letter...

freak E?  freak N?  freakN?!?!  FREAKING!

Second word ...  two syllables ...  first syllable ...  sounds like ...

What are you pointing to?  Shouldler?  Neck?  Back?  BACK?  

Sounds like back!

crack?, stack?, flack?, pack?  PACK? 


FREAKIN' PACKED!


Cal Jestice                       
calvinj@ecs.comm.mot.com 

If you bet on a horse - that's gambling
If you bet you get three spades - that's entertainment
If you bet cotton will go up three points - that's business
See the difference?
--
Newsgroups: rec.gambling
Subject: Re: Las Vegas crowd levels
From: mbuck@fibers (Michael D. Buck)
Date: 8 Oct 92 11:28:04 CST
From: mbuck@fibers (Michael D. Buck)
Newsgroups: rec.gambling
Subject: Re: How/Where to play DD in LV
Date: 8 Oct 92 10:57:31 EDT
Distribution: na
Organization: Allied Fibers, Petersburg VA

In article <1992Oct7.194417.19624@kronos.arc.nasa.gov>, hall@kronos.arc.nasa.gov (Michael Hall) writes:
> In article <1992Oct7.140922.599@fibers> mbuck@fibers (Michael D. Buck) writes:
> 
>>In DD, to get a 1-8 or 1-16 spread without raising attention, you'd
>>have to go progressively from 1->4->8->16, or something similar,
>>right? (I'd think that even *that* sequence would warrant attention. 
>>Or am I paranoid?)
> 
> Well, insert a 2 unit bet in there, 1->2->4->8->16, and it's a bit
> better.

That sequence takes 5 hands to complete.  In order to get that 16-unit
bet out there when the true count is high, do you have to start upping the
bet to 2 and 4 units when the true count isn't really high enough to 
warrant those bets?  Another way to phrase what I'm asking is, if you
wait until the count starts to go positive to bet that 2-unit bet, how
much chance is there that the count will stay (or get) positive enough
for the 16-unit bet to be warranted?  What if the true count stays at
zero for several hands?  Do you stick with the 1-unit bet, or bounce
between one and two for awhile to make it look good?  Is this question
making any sense whatsoever?

>>how can a full SD table ever really be profitable?
>>How can I ever do more than a 1-3 spread at a 2x7 table?
> 
> Bet 2 units on each of two hands (at third base!) on the first round,
> and go up to 4 units or down to 1 unit on the second round.  

Thanks for that tip.  I hadn't thought of that.  I've (so far) never
played two hands, thinking it was too obvious a card-counter ploy
to drop back to one hand when the count is bad.  But, using this idea,
you always play two hands, looking less like a counter.  I'll try it
in December.  Thanks.

[In full table SD]
> Because 50% of your bets are off the top, good rules are critically
> important for a 2 rounds situation

*How* good do you typically demand?  Obviously, Frontier rules (DOA,S17,DAS)
are good.  But, how about Excalibur (D9-10-11,S17,No DAS)?  Good enough?
How about Downtown?  (DOA,H17,No DAS)  Do little things like RSA at
Horseshoe make enough of a difference on a full 2x7 SD table?  (I know their
penetration stinks for non-full tables.)  How about this new 2:1 payoff
for Red BJ's I'm hearing about at several LV casinos?
________________________________________________________________________
Michael Buck                          |
UUCP: decwrl!twwells!fibers!mbuck     |
Internet:                             |
  twwells!fibers!mbuck@decwrl.dec.com |
#! rnews 1826
From: mbuck@fibers (Michael D. Buck)
Newsgroups: rec.gambling
Subject: Re: Las Vegas crowd levels
M
Newsgroups: rec.gambling
From: murphy@rock.enet.dec.com ()
Subject: Re: Low limit Holdem strategy
Reply-To: murphy@rock.enet.dec.com ()
Organization: Digital Equipment Corporation
Date: Tue, 13 Oct 1992 22:08:02 GMT


In article <w1DksB2w165w@infochi.com>, newt@infochi.com (Newton K. Fish) writes:
|> Path: ryn.mro4.dec.com!nntpd.lkg.dec.com!news.crl.dec.com!deccrl!caen!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!usc!news!iat.holonet.net!infochi!newt
|> From: newt@infochi.com (Newton K. Fish)
|> Newsgroups: rec.gambling
|> Subject: Re: Low limit Holdem strategy
|> Message-ID: <w1DksB2w165w@infochi.com>
|> Date: 13 Oct 92 03:54:07 GMT
|> References: <17761@autodesk.COM>
|> Organization: Infochi System of Chicago
|> Lines: 27
|> 
|> > 
|> > Anyway, the question is, what is the "correct" strategy to follow
|> > for the lower (say 1-2, 2-4 or even 3-6) tables?  I can't seem to
|> > really get things to go my way at these tables.  I'm more or less
|> > following Sklansky and Malmuth's advice for 6-12 tables and it
|> > seems to work fairly well (however I'm still pretty green).
|>
|> I don't understand why the stakes make a difference in your strategy. In 
|> hold'em you are playing your opponents and your position. 

The Board Qs 2s 7h 9c 3s
You Hold Ks 4s
For six bucks, show me your Ace flush to beat my king flush.
But what about if your opponent bets $500?
Better still
The Board  Js 9s 4h 7c 10s
You hold As 6s
Your opponent bets $10000
What are the "probabilities" he holds Ks Qs? or Qs 8s
The pot odds will be much different in a strict limit game to begin
with, but bluffing is a much larger factor in no-limit

John

Not necessarily 
|> in that order. The crucial thing during a long haul game is knowing those 
|> times when you can buy into a strong position and make a hand win that 
|> wouldn't normally. How often do you get to play AA KK AK(s) QQ AQ(s)? I 
|> suppose a poor analogy would be the middle game of chess match. Those 
|> marginal hands are where the real skill comes in. And it has very little 
|> to do with card strategy. When you make those decisions to try to win 
|> when you know your not pat my experience has shown me that that is where 
|> the money is. This is the fastest way to find the fear threshold of your 
|> tablemates. Hold'em is such a brutally beautiful psychological exercise. 
|> And for my MONEY that's where it's at. 
|> 
|> Good Luck!
|> 
|> ******************************************************************************
|> *    Newton K. Fish          Infochi System of Chicago      newt@infochi.com *
|> *    Chicago, Illinois      "Information is The Fuel of The Future"          *
|> ******************************************************************************
|> 
Newsgroups: rec.gambling
From: jamesr@Autodesk.COM (James Rowell)
Newsgroups: rec.gambling
Subject: Low limit Holdem strategy
Date: 12 Oct 92 18:36:08 GMT
Distribution: ba
Organization: Autodesk Inc., Sausalito CA, USA

A question for you expert poker players...

I've been playing hold`em at some of the local bay area poker
clubs (and doing better than my last moaning posting, which I
apologize for!) and find that it's easier to play at the higher
stakes tables than lower stakes.  I think the generally accepted
wisdom is that you can apply some more strategy at the higher
stakes tables and consequently control the table better.

Anyway, the question is, what is the "correct" strategy to follow
for the lower (say 1-2, 2-4 or even 3-6) tables?  I can't seem to
really get things to go my way at these tables.  I'm more or less
following Sklansky and Malmuth's advice for 6-12 tables and it
seems to work fairly well (however I'm still pretty green).

Anyway, just wondering what you've found useful etc...

Thanks, James.

P.S. I'd ask your advice about no-limit tournament play, but
somehow I just don't trust you at this point in time...  :-)
Newsgroups: rec.gambling
From: rhoge1@esk.compserv.utas.edu.au ([Robert James Hoge])
Subject: Re: Black jack "even" question:
Organization: University of Tasmania at Launceston
Date: Tue, 13 Oct 92 23:11:20 GMT


Yesterday I posted an article here which said that I was wrong.  The actual
odds are:

BJ 3-2
Insurance 2-1

Hope this clears everything up.

-- 
 _--_|\  Finland,  ______________________________________________________       /      \ America, / [Robert James Hoge]  rhoge1@esk.compserv.utas.edu.au \      \_.--._/  France, \______________________________________________________/      
      v <-------   UNIVERSITY OF TASMANIA, LAUNCESTON, A U S T R A L I A.        ---------------------------------------------------------------------------    / "Tasmania is so small, that we have a fraction for a zip code, really!"   \   
\ "I'm not finished" -Edward Scissorhands.  I am *the*  S M E G H E A D !   /    ---------------------------------------------------------------------------    No, I'm not married!  But believe me if I was, I'd rather have the $50,000!!
#################################################################################                           this section vacant                                #################################################################################
From: wayne@ultra.com (Wayne Hathaway)
Newsgroups: rec.gambling
Subject: Re: Hi-Lo Poker
Date: 16 Oct 92 21:21:59 GMT
Reply-To: wayne@ultra.com (Wayne Hathaway)
Organization: Ultra Network Technologies

> But consider this six-hand showdown:
> 1  (H)  QQQ93
> 2 (H-L) AAA77 (h)
>         7643A (l)
> 3  (L)  85432
> 4 (H-L) 666A4 (h)
>         6432A (l)
> 5  (H)  JJ88K
> 6  (L)  J7542
> 
> The best high belongs to 2 and the best low to 4; neither can win because 
> they went pig, but they beat everyone else, so no one can win!!

Our monthly game has a very simple way out of this "dilemma": we say
that if a both-ways hand loses either way, it is as if the hand was
never in the pot.  For the above case, both hands 2 and 4 "were never
in the pot"; hands 1 and 3 split.

[We also play that a TIE either way does NOT eliminate the both-ways
player, in a pretty futile attempt to encourage both-ways playing.]

    Wayne Hathaway               domain: wayne@Ultra.COM
    Ultra Network Technologies     uucp: ...!ames!ultra!wayne
    101 Daggett Drive             phone: 408-922-0100 x132
    San Jose, CA 95134              FAX: 408-433-9287
From: msc9315@geovax.ed.ac.uk
Newsgroups: rec.gambling
Subject: <None>
Date: 14 Oct 92 19:40:45 GMT
Organization: University of Edinburgh, Geography Department.

OK, UK horse racing.

Money can be made, but info. is sooo expensive.
Can anyone oblige with suggestions/info. on UK tipsters (0891/Personal/
Whatever)?

In return, I can provide major league news on FINEFORM, and even others ...
And maybe more than news .....

NB For all American readers, Arazi is returning, and returning in some style.

   " The journey is the destination!"


   Jon Munro Lewis
Newsgroups: rec.gambling
From: jacobs@cs.utah.edu (Steven R Jacobs)
Subject: Re: Fast Action Hold Em
In-reply-to: jacobs@cs.utah.edu's message of 16 Oct 92 10:02:26
Organization: University of Utah CS Dept
Date: 16 Oct 92 10:08:02

In article <JACOBS.92Oct16100226@cells.cs.utah.edu> jacobs@cs.utah.edu (Steven R Jacobs) writes:
> In article <1bm92gINNp10@agate.berkeley.edu> jacob@ocf.berkeley.edu (Jacob Jin) writes:
>
>> Forgive me Father, for I have sinned. I played Fast Action Hold
>> Em. Even worse, I liked it. But the worst sin of all, is
>> that I began to think it could be beaten.
>
> Assuming you play optimal, this is an even game against the dealer
> except for three things:
>
>     1)  5% vig.
>     2)  5:1 payoff for a "natural" (4-kind dealt to you)
>     3)  You can play your discards if you want to.
>
> The 5:1 payoff for naturals happens only once in about 1359 hands,
> which increase your expected return by only 0.37%.  This leaves
> the house with a 4.63% edge that you must overcome by playing your
> discards.  Good luck.

BZZT.  Wrong.  But thank you for playing.  Since there are occasional
pushes, and you only pay the vig when you win, the house edge is probably
closer to 2%.  Next time think a little before shooting your mouth off
in public.
--
Steve Jacobs  ({bellcore,hplabs,uunet}!utah-cs!jacobs, jacobs@cs.utah.edu)
"Be afraid.  Be very afraid.  I have K-10 offsuit...."
From: yasu@ll.mit.edu (Alan Yasutovich)
Newsgroups: rec.gambling
Subject: Video Poker
Date: 15 Oct 92 14:34:53 GMT
Organization: MIT Lincoln Laboratory


	A few days ago someone responded to my post about video
	poker saying that there is a system in the faq's that
	works.

	I was wondering if this is true, and if so, why people
	aren't using it/talking about it?

-- 
	Alan Yasutovich
	"inquiring  (and nosey) minds WANT TO KNOW!!!"
	I can remember when "safe sex" meant having a padded headboard!!
	Tick Tock.....Tick Tock......Tick Tock .....Tick Tock......
Newsgroups: rec.gambling
From: jacobs@cs.utah.edu (Steven R Jacobs)
Subject: Re: Reno BJ Rules
In-reply-to: ddn@cbnews.cb.att.com's message of Thu, 8 Oct 1992 14:41:04 GMT
Organization: University of Utah CS Dept
Distribution: usa
Date: 8 Oct 92 09:20:10

In article <1992Oct8.144104.4120@cbnews.cb.att.com> ddn@cbnews.cb.att.com (david.d.nason) writes:

> I'm going to Reno next week and have never been there before.
> From the FAQ, and the couple of BJ books I have, it seems 
> that "typical" Reno rules are single deck, H17, D10, and  
> no Doubling on Soft Hands.  Is this true?

Yes.

> What about DAS/RSA/ESR/LSR?

You can find DOA if you look for it, maybe DAS on double deck
or shoe games.  RSA and LSR are pretty rare, ESR is nonexistent.

If you can find a single deck game that allows doubling on any
first two cards, that is about as good as you'll find.  The
other rules aren't all that valuable, especially if you have
to give up DOA to get them.
--
Steve Jacobs  ({bellcore,hplabs,uunet}!utah-cs!jacobs, jacobs@cs.utah.edu)
"Be afraid.  Be very afraid.  I have K-10 offsuit...."
Newsgroups: rec.gambling