From: ataylor@nmsu.edu (Nosy)
Subject: Walking To Cars (Was: Critisizing the victim?)
Organization: NMSU Computer Science
	<1992Jul29.080647.20538@leland.Stanford.EDU> <10092@sun13.scri.fsu.edu>
	<1992Aug8.054641.10769@leland.Stanford.EDU>
Date: Wed, 12 Aug 1992 23:07:05 GMT

In article <1992Aug8.054641.10769@leland.Stanford.EDU> farthing@leland.Stanford.EDU (ljf) writes:

SOMEONE wrote:

<> Second of all,
<>the man has to walk all the way back from the car alone, entailing a similar
<>risk to the risk the woman was unwilling to take.  He is expected not to raise
<>these objections and is expected to suppress his own uncertainty to benefit 
<>the woman.  And, of course, the woman is never expected even to be aware of
<>these things when she is making the request--after all, it is her safety and
<>her protection which are at issue.

<   From what I've seen and done, the driver drives the other person,
<   regardless of gender, to her/his house, apartment, or dorm.  That
<   seems to protect both of them (unless there's an attacker hiding in
<   the car).

	This is not a universal. There are other situations:

	Example: people working late at night. Woman wishes 
	to go home, man is not finished with work. Woman asks
	man to "walk her to her car"; he does so, she drives
	off and gets to walk back from the parking garage alone.

	Example: Woman at a party wants to leave, asks friend
	to "walk her to her car". Ditto above.

	Now, one solution is for two or more people to escort
	whomever is leaving to the vehicle/bus stop/whatever.

	That's not always possible. 

	It seems to me that Farthing has dodged the issue
	of "men expendable, women precious".
	

<>Perhaps this is not the intention of such women, but I think the world would
<>benefit if they were to do some soul-searching about the things they 
<>automatically expect men to do and the ways they automatically expect men
<>to be.

<   I walk all my friends (male and female) to their cars, and then s/he
<   drives me to my car, apartment, or lab.  I know many women who do the
<   same for each other.  I don't know many men who do that for each
<   other, and I do see quite a few men complain about women worrying
<   about rape.

	Huh? Could you expand on this? I've never, ever seen or heard
	any man complain about women worrying about rape.

	"Gee, women worry about rape too much"...is that what you
	mean?


<>As for your friend, imagine a situation where he were at a party and a woman
<>who did not know of his history asked him to walk her to her car.  Imagine
<>what he might feel about the expectation, without acknowledgement of the fear
<>that he has to face.  Would you be so quick to condemn his annoyance at the
<>request?

 <  I think any person, male or female, has the right to refuse such a
 <  request from a person s/he just met.  

	Ah, but if a male does so, will he not be labeled "cowardly",
	"a chauvanist pig" or some such? 

	Aren't there societal expectations that men regard themselves
	as more expendable than women?

<However, in the cases I
<   mentioned, these men knew the women.  They were friends and yet
<   thought that the women were being silly.  They didn't understand why
<   meeting at someone's dorm at 10:00 pm was a problem for most women.
<   If they had had my male friend's experience, they would have been much
<   more sympathetic to the women's pleas for meetings in the daytime.

	Huh. These men are rather short in the imagination department;
	I've personally seen 20 year old college men suggest to 
	women in a class project that all meetings be held in 
	the daytime.

<>Should you be so quick to condemn the annoyance of those men whose histories
<>you yourself do not know?

<   I've been sexually assaulted.  I still walk my friends to their cars
<   when they're alone.  I still see my friends to their doors.  When I'm
<   walked to my door, I still wait to make sure that s/he gets into
<   her/his car safely.  I expect my friends (male and female) to walk me
<   to my car when it's dark or I'm parked in a parking garage.  I expect
<   to be driven to my car, lab, or apartment after I've walked the driver
<   to her/his car.  I do this with men and women.  And if a man tells me
<   not to worry, that he doesn't mind walking alone in the dark or out of
<   a parking garage, I say, "Get in the car and let me tell you about
<   what happened to a friend of mine..."

	Commendable. Please rethink your earlier comments a bit,
	in light of this last paragraph....
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