From: lazarus@wixer.cactus.org (Michael Lax)
Subject: Jewish War Veterans on why they're bigots (cont'd)
Organization: Real/Time Communications
Date: Sun, 27 Dec 92 19:51:18 GMT

The following is a fax I received from the Jewish War Veterans:

12/24/92 - Jewish War Veterans of the USA.
From Ira Greenspan (asst. to Col. Herb Rosenbleeth)

The following is in response to your letter of Dec 22 1992.
All members of JWV are encouraged to speak out at all post, department and
national convention.
JWV is a democratic organization.  All resolutions and policy are decided
by majority vote.

-----------------------------------------------------------------

*Below are excerpts from National Commander Warren S. Dolny's response to
Rabbi Schindler:* (concerning homosexuality in the military)

Although many Jewish organizations support your position, being Jewish
does not require conformity to the ideals of one particular group.  I
doubt that you would find such conformity on this position from every
Jewish organization.  I can probably say with some certainty that the
Orthodox Jewish organizations, who for the most part, do not consider
groups such as the one you represent as being part of the Jewish world,
would join with JWV in opposing homosexual participation in the
military....
The National Resolutions Committee was overwhelmingly in support of this
position, and the resolution passed on the convention floor by a wide
margin.  As JWV is a democratic organization, in which our members
determine its direction, the majority position was enacted as official
policy...
The beauty of the American Jewish community is our ability to disagree,
yet remain a strong, united presence against those who wish to defeat us. 
Conflicts within our community must be expected, and should not be seen as
signs of failure of moral courage or societal decay.
--------------------------------------------------------------

The following is my response to this excerpt:

Dear Colonel Rosenbleeth:

     Your form response, which completely ignored my letters,
relies on the assumption that ignorant mob rule supports sound
decision-making.  The democracy you speak of allows people to
make decisions based on lies and propaganda.  Would you support
prayer in school if the majority of people in this country
supported it?  And have you forgotten that Hitler was elected and
his policies supported by the overwhelming majority?  As I have
pointed out repeatedly, the majority of JWV members support a
destructive policy based on hateful lies and bigoted
misinformation.  No compromise can exist for such a position,
unless you suggest that gays and lesbians should accept the same
standard of living that Jews had in Germany during the beginning
of the Nazi era.

     You speak of a disagreement as if talking about seating
arrangements at a dinner party, rather than intentionally
destroying the lives of thousands of people simply because you
feel uncomfortable with the reality of their existence.  The time
has come for you to tell your members the truth about gays in the
military, apologizing for your lies and bigotry.  That a Jewish
organization would use precisely the same tactics against another
oppressed people as those used against the Jewish people appalls
me.

     I again look forward to your prompt, reasoned, response.  I
will be home this Monday and Tuesday and would certainly enjoy
having the opportunity to talk with you and Albert Schlosseerg.

-----------------------------------------------------------
The following is my first response to the JWV resolution:

Dear Colonel Rosenbleeth:

     In a world where the Ku Klux Klan and an African-American
church openly share their bigotry of gays and lesbians, the
resolution adopted at the Jewish War Veteran's 97th National
Convention should not surprise me.  Its blatant ignorance and
pure bigotry should not make me sick to my stomach, for the lies
and deceits you regurgitate have existed for centuries.  I will
do my best to respond to the hateful speech which your
organization signed its name to and which compares favorably to
Mein Kampf in its maliciousness.

     "Beyond the insidious effect which the effort has upon the
morale of men and women who serve in our nation's armed
forces,... "

     I am curious what "insidious effect" you refer to.  The
ignorance of heterosexual personnel?  Or perhaps the fear that
you will have to teach them the truth.  There is certainly no
evidence to support this statement, and plenty to dispute it. 

     "... it has been confirmed that 42% of soldiers testing HIV-
positive had homosexual sex, in direct violation of the policy of
U.S. armed forces."

     A number of questions arise from your data.  Over what
period of time?  What is the sample based on?  How was the
percentage derived (i.e., by what means was the data collected)? 
There is also the relevance of this question to the issue of gays
and lesbians serving in the military.  What has HIV/AIDS got to
do with excepting the existence of gays and lesbians in the
military?  Gay men did not cause AIDS.  They do not account for
the majority of cases; worldwide, AIDS is most definitely a
heterosexual virus.  More importantly, reported AIDS cases
amongst gays is down, while going up for heterosexuals.  Of
course, this statement ignores lesbians, who are amongst the
lowest-risk group in the country.  It also makes the irrational
assumptions that being gay means having unsafe sex and HIV, while
being heterosexual means not having HIV; while your own data
states that the majority of those with HIV are heterosexual, it
ignores the fact that the vast majority of heterosexuals
consistently practice unsafe sex.  That the UCMJ forbids
homosexual sex between consenting adults is an anachronism that
must be changed as well.

     "The cost of caring for each HIV-positive military person,
verified by DoD records, was $200,000.  It was further stated
that in the last ten years DoD has expended $3 billion dollars on
AIDS infected military personnel."

     An interesting statement.  Again, however, I fail to see its
relevance in forbidding qualified personnel from joining the
military.  The risk of AIDS amongst the lesbian community is
qualitatively non-existent, while the risk of AIDS amongst gay
men is going down.  Or perhaps would you suggest that those with
a family history of heart disease and cancer should be barred
from military service?  These diseases cost more than $200,000
per individual to treat.  Given the skyrocketing cost of giving
birth (delivering and caring for a premature baby can cost as
much as $500,000), perhaps we should bar married couples from
military service as well.  Never mind the cities and major
companies (Lotus) which have provided domestic partner benefits
for their gay and lesbian employees with little or not increase
in their insurance risk.  And how can a people motivated by
compassion for others suggests that we would be better off if
people with AIDS were disposed of more quickly and efficiently. 
Perhaps the Jewish War Veterans would like to bring back the
showers?

     "In light of the diminution of the DoD budget, it is
imperative that the DoD enforce regulations which forbid
homosexual acts amongst U.S. military personnel."

     Once again, your first statement fails to connect to your
conclusion.  Why not have the DoD educate military personnel
about safe sex?  Indeed, in light of the need for qualified
individuals, perhaps the DoD should stop spending at least $30
million a year trying to fight a war that does not exist.

     "Jewish War Veterans of the USA urges our membership to
communicate this urgent message to the appropriate governmental
authorities."

     You can be assured that my mother, and her friends who are
members of JWV, will speak out loudly concerning your attempt to
malign those gays and lesbians who proudly serve in the United
States Military.  That you have ignored the facts and distorted
the truth is an insult to the Jewish people, as we have suffered
by those that would lie about us.  Long before Hitler, Jews were
accused of killing children to bake matzoh, of being miserly, and
feared because no one knew who was Jewish.  You now use the same
type of lies and fear to maintain the hatred and discrimination
of another oppressed people.  That such an action would come from
a Jewish organization is contemptible.

     I again look forward to your prompt response.
=====================================================================
"For I can see that in the midst of death, Life persists; in the
midst of untruth, Truth persists; in the midst of darkness, Light
persists."
"An eye for an eye will blind the world."
                                      Mohandas Karamchand Gandhi
"I'm here, I'm queer, get used to it."
                                                             ME!
lazarus@wixer.cactus.org; Michael Lax, 12514 Esplanade St., #B, 
Austin, TX  78727-4409; 512.837.1596 (h), 512.836.9715 (fax)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: nigel@stonewall.demon.co.uk (Nigel Whitfield)