HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: steevesm@woods.ulowell.edu
Subject: Wheel of Time similarities
Organization: University of Lowell
Date: Thu, 28 Jan 1993 13:08:48 GMT

Just another thing in the Wheel_Of_Time/other works similarities thread.

If anyone has read (or remembers, if they did) a series of 5 books by
Lloyd Alexander, loosely based on Welsh/Gaelic mythos (i.e. there are some
characters in it which are the same as some of the gods in the mythology).
My primary concern is with (currently) three things:

	1) That Coll (L.A.) == Tam (R.J.)
		-Both are supposedly simple farmers, until it is revealed
		 that they are ex-warriors that fought in some of the famous
		 wars of their respective histories.

	2) There is a sort of parallel in Manethrin and some area of land
	   in Alexander's work (basically, it was one of the most fertile
	   pieces of ground, until it became so fought over that all the 
	   blood ruined the ground).  This is not exact, but does loosely
	   fit.

	3) In one of the books, _The_Black_Cauldron_, a cauldron that has the
	   power to animate life has to be destroyed by a live person 
	   climbing into it (thus shattering it and killing the person).
	   In that book, the character that ends up sacrificing his life
	   is one that was against the protagonist earlier on, a loose
	   parallel with Ingtar.

None of these are exact, but they do seem to almost be some sort of template
for things in Robert Jordan's series (but by no means am I accusing R.J. of
plagarism or being unoriginal!!!).

-darkelf
-----
"I have no brother, am like no brother;
 And this word "love", which the greybeards call divine,
 Be resident in men like one another
 And not in me.  I am myself alone."
	-Gloucester, Henry VI Pt. 3
-----
From: zardoz@sycom.mi.org (David Lillard)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
Subject: B.B.L.
Distribution: world
X-BBS-Software: EXCELSIOR! V0.976
Date: 24 Jan 93 16:24:53 EST
Organization: Michigan Information eXchange

 
If you ever get the chance to attend a Workshop or talk by Barry B. Longyear,
I *strongly* suggest that you do so.  He is both Entertaining and Informative.
He's the only speaker I've ever encountered who made the act of taking a dump
both Funny AND Interesting.
 
BTW, you *might* want to pick up a copy of his Writer's Guide.  It's only
"$10 - cheap".
 
Disclaimer:  The above is *only* my opinion.  I have no connection to
             Mr. Longyear.  I was mearly one of his pleased audience 
             members at this weekend's ConFusion.
 
Best, Dave.
From: harrity@sumax.seattleu.edu (Zak)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
Subject: Re: Aes Sedai
Date: 25 Jan 1993 12:51:30 -0800
Organization: Seattle University
NNTP-Posting-Host: sumax.seattleu.edu
Keywords: Sedai, Templar, Masonry

In article <1993Jan25.025046.2135@muddcs.claremont.edu> ebrandt@jarthur.claremont.edu (Eli Brandt) writes:

>As I recall, there was some evidence that the face Isam took for his
>"Lord Luc" role was in fact that of Luc, whom he killed.  Perhaps
>he can only take the form of one whom he killed?  If so, this would
>indicate that he killed Rand's mother, as he killed his father in
>her form.  If she was Tigraine, this would be interesting -- maybe
>he was trying to take out the entire royal family.

But Tigraine was killed on or near the slopes of Dragonmount, or more
probably died there in childbirth.  How do you connect a possesion of her
killing her Aiel husband, Rand's father?

>And why
>did Luc take off for the Blight in the first place?  

As the brother to the Heir of Andor, he went to Tar Valon to study under
the Gaidin just as the Daughter Heir goes to study under Aes Sedai.  On an
expidition into the Blight, which the Warders apparantly do from time to
time, he was "lost"...and of course the how of it is never clarified.

>The whole
>Isam-Luc-Tigraine-Taringail-Thom-Laman-Moiraine tangle still seems
>unresolved.

That's for damn sure.  Has anybody figured out the proper lineage yet?

Cheers,

--
Daniel John Kelly-Harrity ---------| |--------- "Sooner spit in a 
Seattle University ----------------| |---------  Wolf's Eye,
Seattle, Washington ---------------| |---------  than cross an
USA 98122 -------------------------| |---------  Aes Sedai."

  "Welcome to All Things Scottish...If it's not Scottish, It's *CRAP*!"
Organization: Freshman, MCS general, Carnegie Mellon, Pittsburgh, PA
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
Date: Wed, 27 Jan 1993 17:57:09 -0500 
From: Mark Alan Lang <Elistan+@CMU.EDU>
Subject: Re: Aes Sedai
	<1993Jan26.090024.1@woods.ulowell.edu>


    When Rand goes into Rhuidean, his last vision is seen from the eyes
of the Aiel Charn, and takes place when the Dark One's prison is
shattered.  We get to witness the breaking of the prison.  Charn metions
that Mierin and somebody called Beidomon planned to use a new source of
the One Power that did not have a male and female part.  Is this new
source Shai'tan himself?  What could it be?  Mierin survived the
experience and became known as Lanfear.  Could Beidomon also have
survived and is now active in the world?  Perhaps he is one of the
Forsaken?
    Also, does anybody know much about the life history of Lewis Therin?
 What was his relation with Mierin?  How did she come to love(?) him? 
What was he before Shai'tan's prison was broken? - it seems he was the
leader of the male Aes Sedai.  Any other possibilities?



-----------------------------------------------------------------------
|  Mark Lang                       |  ml5t+@andrew.cmu.edu            |
|  elistan+@cmu.edu                |  elistan@drycas.club.cc.cmu.edu  |
-----------------------------------------------------------------------

Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
From: mfterman@flower.Princeton.EDU (Mutant for Hire)
Subject: Re: Aes Sedai
Originator: news@nimaster
Reply-To: mfterman@phoenix.princeton.edu (Mutant for Hire)
Organization: Mutant for Hire, Inc.
Date: Wed, 27 Jan 1993 17:57:16 GMT

In article <1993Jan26.132954.1@woods.ulowell.edu>, steevesm@woods.ulowell.edu writes:
>As for his luck, I dunno on that one.  Maybe it is a byproduct of his blowing
>the Horn, maybe it is just something like what happened to Perrin (my guess).
>I haven't seen anything to explain this one.

People comment that Paidan Fain is being infernally lucky these days, despite
all his problems. He also had the dagger for a time, so I am inclined to think
that its the dagger more than anything else.

-- 
    Martin Terman, Mutant for Hire, Mean Ol' Top, Priest of Shub-Internet
    Disclaimer: Nobody else takes me seriously, why should you be the first?
mfterman@phoenix.princeton.edu mfterman@pucc.bitnet terman@pupgga.princeton.edu
"Sig quotes are like bumper stickers, only without the same sense of relevance"
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
From: dstein@oak.math.ucla.edu (David Stein)
Subject: Re: ANALOG Feb '93
Organization: UCLA Mathematics Department
Date: Sat, 23 Jan 93 03:30:56 GMT

Steinn Sigurdsson opinion of the Landis story:

>One of the more interesting stories I've seen in a
>while, almost Szaboesque in some way. Wish I had written it :-)
>And a _must_ read for any reader of sci.space!

  Would you consider the story so great if you did not agree with the
story's underlying assumptions?

  Besides having the obvious moral, what was "good" about the story?
The SF in it?  What SF?  The quality of the writing?  You would have 
to be joking.
 
 - David

--
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Debil, on the shores of Bohemia.
################################
From: alien@acheron.amigans.gen.nz (Ross Smith)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
Subject: Re: Extremely Hokey SF: The Norby Chronicles
Date: 22 Jan 93 15:30:54 GMT+12
Distribution: world
Organization: Muppet Labs

In article <1993Jan15.044308.17713@mnemosyne.cs.du.edu> cmeadows@nyx.cs.du.edu (Chris Meadows) writes:
>
>To get closer to my original subject, what SF book do YOU think
>is the most hilarious/hokey?  I wanna know...I'm in need of good
>stuff to read (or will be, as soon as I read Norby's further ad-
>ventures, in NORBY: ROBOT FOR HIRE).

If your definition of "SF" (please, folks, let's not start that again!)
includes what is usually labelled "Fantasy", the prize goes hands down to
Terry Pratchett's "Discworld" series. No contest. (For those who don't know,
there's a newsgroup, alt.fan.pratchett)

Sticking to "real" SF ... read Bob Shaw's "Who Goes Here?" It's a very
funny send-up of military SF like "Starship Troopers" and "The Forever War".
Much funnier than Harrisons "Bill the Galactic Hero", IMHO.

But Harrison has written some very good comedies ... the first few Stainless
Steel Rat books, and of course "The Technicolour Time Machine" (and the one
you mentioned, "Star Smashers of the Galaxy Rangers").

What else? "The Flying Sorcerers", by David Gerrold and Larry Niven
(traveller from Earth, stranded on alien planet, has to teach the natives
how to build a flying machine to get back to his ship; besides being a very
good story in its own right, it's also packed with SF-related jokes).

"Charles Fort Never Mentioned Wombats", by Gene De Weese and somebody else
whose name escapes me (aliens kidnap a typical group of Earthlings for
investigation; unfortunately for the aliens, they happen to pick a bunch
of fans from an SF convention).

But my personal award for funniest SF goes to Keith Laumer's yarns about
Jame Retief of the CDT (Corps Diplomatique Terrestrienne) (sp?). Retief is
a junior diplomat who invariably has to extract his superiors from the
sticky situations their own incompetence has got them (and the local colonists
and/or natives) into.

--
...... Ross Smith (Wanganui, NZ) ...... alien@acheron.amigans.gen.nz ......
"I blame you for the moonlit sky and the dream that died with the Eagle's flight
I blame you for the moonlit nights when I wonder why are the seas still dry
Don't blame me, sleeping satellite"                              (Tasmin Archer)
--
From: whit@carson.u.washington.edu (John Whitmore)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
Subject: Re: Pern/Computers, and DOS
Date: 27 Jan 1993 00:20:31 GMT
Organization: University of Washington, Seattle
NNTP-Posting-Host: carson.u.washington.edu

In article <1993Jan22.143638.17050@infodev.cam.ac.uk> SA121@phx.cam.ac.uk writes:
>In article <1993Jan22.012023.63037@cc.usu.edu> sl7sg@cc.usu.edu writes:

>>	Anyhow, I just finished reading the last pern book, and I was hit with
>>something odd.  Did you notice that when the AI told [Jaxom] to run a
>>program onboard the ship, to turn the shields on (during a swarm of thread,
>>still in space) it said run DESTROY.EXE

>My first assumption was that it was running VMS

>Well, she says she's got a random dragon-name generator, and if anyone
>could be bothered programming that on a Mac, I'd be most surprised....

	VMS is a fine OS (though I'm constrained to diddle with 
others nowadays)... and is consistent both with the '.EXE'
ending AND random dragon-name generation.  On VMS systems,

$ SET PASSWORD/GENERATE=5

will give an assortment of five-to-seven letter random (but pronounceable)
non-words.  If I were making lots of dragon names, that's how
I'd do it...but I'd decline to change my password to any of 'em.

	John Whitmore

Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
From: torkel@sics.se (Torkel Franzen)
Subject: Re: Tolkien's (and Donaldson's) style (was Re: writing Styles)
Organization: Swedish Institute of Computer Science, Kista
	<1993Jan26.015129.26368@colorado.edu>
	<KERS.93Jan26100119@cdollin.hpl.hp.com>
Date: Tue, 26 Jan 1993 14:53:45 GMT

In article <KERS.93Jan26100119@cdollin.hpl.hp.com> kers@hplb.hpl.hp.com 
(Chris Dollin) writes:

>"X said" was replaced by, "X gasped," or "X whispered," etc. 
>I'm not sure if this is taste, or convention (and if the latter, whether it be
>genre-specific or distributed through modern writing), but I find the
>multifarious ways of saying ``said'' to be more noticable (and objectionable)
>than repeated use of ``said''. That gasped, it should -- sorry, I prefer it to
> -- be used sparingly.

  Yours is the more orthodox view, I believe. I seem to recall that
somebody - was it Damon Knight? - invented the term "said-bookism" for
"he gasped" etc, and regarded the frequent use of said-bookisms as a
sure sign of a poor writer.
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
Subject: Vernor Vinge's New Book...
Date: Sat, 23 Jan 1993 11:16:12 -0600

In a message to All <20 Jan 93 21:41> in Usenet rec.arts.sf.written Lenore
Levine wrote:

 LL> ...just came out in paperback; and I really enjoyed reading it. I liked
 LL> the original scientific concepts and species design (which seem to be
 LL> very rare in 90's SF).

(The book is called _A Fire Upon the Deep_, incidentally)

 LL> I would like to know what people think of this book.

I enjoyed it immensely.  For some reason the scenes with the doggies
didn't properly engage my attention, but I can't see why; I can't
analytically find anything "wrong" with them.  

 LL> P.S. Notice how well he's captured the flavor of the Net? I'm sure
 LL> that "Death to Vermin" guy's posted here before :-) .

I both greatly enjoyed, and was very bothered by, this aspect.  Given
the time-span involved, I think it's *wrong* for the net to be so
completely recognizable.  (I have this same problem with Card's net
in the Ender books.)


Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
From: blum@medici.ils.nwu.edu (Dan Blum)
Subject: Re: Update of G. R. Dickson's Childe Cycle bibliography
Reply-To: blum@ils.nwu.edu
Organization: The Institute for the Learning Sciences
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1 PL8]
Date: Sat, 23 Jan 1993 15:39:49 GMT

Tim McCaffrey (tmm@asns.tredydev.Unisys.COM) wrote:
> I don't know if Dickson did it just to pull peoples legs, but
> Bleys was mentioned very briefly in "The Dragon Knight" as
> the teacher of Merlin.  Note: I haven't read the entire set
> as yet, so maybe this is something other people would expect.

> 					Tim McCaffrey

Well, I haven't read any of the Childe Cycle, but I know that Bleys
(in various spellings) is the traditional teacher of Merlin.  T. H.
White mentions him in _The Once and Future King_, for example.  So
it isn't necessarily leg-pulling.  Then again, it might be.
--
_____________________________________________________________________
Dan Blum           Institute for the Learning Sciences   Room 334
blum@ils.nwu.edu   1890 Maple Ave., Evanston, IL 60201   708-491-7149

"It's nothing, honey - the dog's learning how to juggle."
_____________________________________________________________________
From: as3@st-andrews.ac.uk (Arend Sluis)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
Subject: Re: Aes Sedai
Keywords: Sedai, Templar, Masonry
Date: 26 Jan 93 11:53:37 GMT
Organization: St. Andrews University, Scotland.

Sorry folks, addition to number 10:`

In Shadow Rising Rand goes through this initiation thing in Aiel territory. He experiences the lives of the Dai'Shan (?) and at one point is mentioned a "seedsong" or seedsinging. Bearing the conection between Aiel 
and Tinkers in mind, could this not be the fabled song of the Tinkers.

_Arend
From: savoia@sw.stratus.com (Rick Savoia)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
Subject: Re: Aes Sedai
Date: 27 Jan 93 14:18:49 GMT
Organization: Stratus Computer, Inc.
NNTP-Posting-Host: watts.sqa.stratus.com

In article <1993Jan27.052057.25377@msc.cornell.edu>, hillyard@msc.cornell.edu writes:
> From article <1k502bINN58t@geraldo.cc.utexas.edu>, by chrismg@ccwf.cc.utexas.edu (christian gadeken):
> > In article <cfNQIh200Uh707Mq4P@andrew.cmu.edu> Mark Alan Lang <Elistan+@CMU.EDU> writes:
> >>
> >>    I have a question about an event in the fourth book.  In Alcair Dal,
> >>Rand planned to reveal himself as the Car'a'carn.  However, Couladin
> >>somehow gets the two tatoos and claims that he is the Car'a'carn. 
> >>However, acording to prophecy, once the Dragon proclaims himself, there
> >>will be no more False Dragons.  
> 
> I don't think that is the prophecy.  It was only speculation by Siuan(?).

Not quite.  The prophecy still holds true.  If I remember
correctly, most or all of the other false dragons had
some command over Saidan.  Couladin was just a dupe
and no smarter than your average book bad guy.

-- 
==========================================================
Rick Savoia                     | "I'm just very selective
savoia@watts.sqa.stratus.com    | about the reality 
Rick_Savoia@vos.stratus.com     | I accept" - Calvin
==========================================================
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
From: kasprj@isaac.its.rpi.edu (Jim Kasprzak)
Subject: Re: The the great ongoing misogyny/misandry discussion
Keywords: my newsreader hates me.
Reply-To: kasprj@rpi.edu
Organization: The Big Wedge 
Date: Sat, 23 Jan 1993 13:34:13 GMT


 Michael Lichter mentioned Sheri Tepper in connection with the "conflict 
of the sexes" debate. While I haven't read _The Gate to Women's Country_,
I found some of Tepper's ideas expressed in _Raising the Stones_ to be 
provocative in this regard. 
 
 Tepper manages to be critical of some aspects of (stereotypical) male
behavior without, in my opinion, stooping to "man-bashing". The Voorstoders
from _Raising the Stones_ are a culture which embodies the worst aspects of
patriarchy. But they're an aberration, and Tepper knows it. There are a good
number of sympathetically portrayed male characters in the book, and even 
Sam Girat, the anti-hero who was warped by Voorstod culture in his youth, is
shown to be a good person at heart, if misguided. 
 
 In some aspects of her criticism I think Tepper goes a little bit overboard,
but overall I found her to be mostly fair in her criticism. Of course, this
doesn't even begin to touch on the _really_ interesting issues brought up in
_Raising the Stones_, but I'll just say that the book is well worth reading 
and let you discover the rest for yourself.
------------------------------------------------------------------
     __  Live from Capitaland, heart of the Empire State...
 ___/  | Jim Kasprzak, computer operator @ RPI, Troy, NY, USA
/____ *|          he who refuses to do nonsense  
     \_|          is doomed to talk arithmetic.
      ====  e-mail: kasprj@rpi.edu or kasprzak@mts.rpi.edu 
 
From: David.Dyer-bennet@f30498.n1459.z0.tdkt.kksys.com (David Dyer-bennet)
Sender: FredGate@tdkt.kksys.com
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
Subject: Writing Styles
Date: Sat, 23 Jan 1993 11:18:27 -0600

In a message to All <21 Jan 93 20:23> in Usenet rec.arts.sf.written Mwhatt01
wrote:

 Mw> I am curious as to what this group's opinions are concerning writing
 Mw> styles.  

I'm against them.  :-) :-), okay?

 Mw> Do you like a writer who has a very clear style so that
 Mw> you don't even notice it.  Or do you prefer writing that is highly
 Mw> stylized. 

Yes; if it's done well enough.  

I really love Tolkien's _Lord of the Rings_ and Zelazny's _Lord of
Light_ and Niven&Pournelle's _The Mote in God's Eye_ and Frank
Herbert's _Dune_ and Heinlein's _The Moon is a Harsh Mistress_.  And
a lot of Niven shorts, and a lot of Delany shorts (mostly from
Driftglass, to me that seems to represent his best period), and some
Vance shorts (particularly from _Eight Magics and Phantasms_.)  While
all of these people have "their own" style to a greater or lesser
extent, seems to me some of them are much more obtrusive than others.

 Mw> I'm not arguing style over substance, but do you prefer prose closer to
 Mw> poetry or more straightforward?

Not-quite-perfect straightforward prose is tremendously much more
pleasant to read than not-quite-perfect poetic prose, for me.  If the
style asks to be noticed, it has to be able to stand up to the
attention it receives.

Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
From: cmeadows@nyx.cs.du.edu (Chris Meadows)
Subject: Re: PIERS ANTHONY'S XANTH BOOKS
X-Disclaimer: Nyx is a public access Unix system run by the University
	of Denver for the Denver community.  The University has neither
	control over nor responsibility for the opinions of users.
Organization: Nyx, Public Access Unix at U. of Denver Math/CS dept.
Date: Wed, 27 Jan 93 23:12:52 GMT


You might want to check alt.fan.piers-anthony.  A list of all the 
Xanth books, as well as all of Piers' others, comes out there period-
ically, as well as some interesting discussion on Anthony's books.

--
Chris Meadows  | Robotech/RIFTS/Palladium fanfic author/editor                  
CHM173S@SMSVMA | They Might Be Giants about Star Trek aliens:                   
CHM173S@VMA.SMSU.EDU   | "Everybody wants prosthetic foreheads                  
CMEADOWS@NYX.CS.DU.EDU | on their real heads!"                                  
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
From: pciszek@nyx.cs.du.edu (Paul Ciszek)
Subject: Re: Niven/Pournelle, continued
Organization: University of Denver, Dept. of Math & Comp. Sci.
Date: Tue, 26 Jan 93 03:04:39 GMT

max@west.darkside.com (Erik Max Francis) writes:

>Heh.  I read _The Legacy of Hereot_ to my girlfriend (who enjoyed it 
>immensely),

I hope you use a "safeword" when you participate in activities like this.

(Honestly, I _like_ Niven.  I do!  But when someone sets me up with a
perfect straight line like this, I feel morally obligated to come up
with a punchline!)


Paul Ciszek                 "Goose-stepping morons like yourself should
                             try READING books instead of BURNING them."
pciszek@nyx.cs.du.edu                     -- Dr. Henry Jones, Sr., PhD
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
From: write@lamar.ColoState.EDU (Glen Cox)
Subject: Re: Any GOOD sf-magazines/bookclubs?
Date: Wed, 27 Jan 1993 19:09:00 GMT
Organization: Colorado State University, Fort Collins, CO  80523

I didn't realize until I had already sent my previous post that
I had been uncommonly ethnocentric.  That is, I forgot to 
mention the British magazine Interzone, which I like even more
than Asimov's.  Can't explain why I forgot it.

glen
Glen E. Cox               *  No quote today
write@lamar.ColoState.Edu *
Newsgroups: misc.written,rec.arts.sf.written
Subject: Re: A *what* fingered hand?
From: agapow@latcs1.lat.oz.au (p-m agapow)
Date: 22 Jan 93 00:32:52 GMT
Organization: Calvin Coolidge Home for Dead Biologists

elf@halcyon.com (Elf Sternberg) writes:

>   I ran into an interesting problem last night, and it's a bit of a
>show about how frustrating these little details can be sometimes when
>writing science fiction.  Let's say I have a character with the
>following hand:
>        _   _   _
>   _   | | | | | |  Basically, this is a poor ascii attempt to render a
>  / \  | | |_| | |  hand with four digits.  But I can't stand the word
>  | |  | | [_] | |  'digits.'  So, let me ask my question:
>  \  \_| | | | | |
>   \             |  Is this a four-fingered hand or a three-fingered
>    \            |  hand?  In either case, do I count these fingers
>     \           |  (from left to right) as 'Thumb, first, second,
>      \          |  third,' or is it 'Thumb, second, third, fourth?'

Well, a thumb is a finger but a finger is not necessarily a thumb ...
so you have a four-fingered hand here. Mind, if (as you said) you're
talking about aliens you would run into the problem of defining what a
thumb or even a finger is. Taking a stab at thumb, i would say that if the
digit in question is jointed and swings largely indepedent of the other
digits, then you have a thumb. 

Now how you number it could be _very_ tricky ...

p-m

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
paul-michael agapow (agapow@latcs1.oz.au) Machine Intelligence Lab, LaTrobe Uni

        "Teenage sex, nuclear winter, Junior Miss fashion 
               & the mechanics of emotional capitalism ..."
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written