HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
Newsgroups: rec.photo
From: acs@csri.toronto.edu (Alvin Chia-Hua Shih)
Subject: Re: Changing N8008 for the new Canon?
Date: 20 Nov 92 02:22:56 GMT

In <1992Nov19.225848.226@adobe.com> usenet@adobe.com (USENET NEWS) writes:

>| I was under the impression that with non-D lenses, you'd just get
>| "classic" matrix metering--which was pretty good.

>				-Alvin C. Shih
                                 ^^^^^^^^^^^^^

I'm not used to seeing my name in this format.  Kinda eerie!  :-)

>For that matter, good old center-weighted metering was pretty good!
>At least 95% of the color slides I shot with my venerable FE were
>beautifully exposed, and I was a beginner (more or less) when I
>bought that camera. The matrix metering in my 8008s is a little
>better in difficult lighting situations, but I *still* have to
>use spotmetering and *think* a little to arrive at the optimum
>exposure in these situations. The "new improved" matrix metering
>in the N90 may be yet a little better, but still not good enough
>to eliminate the *thinking* part of the process.

The sizes of the meter regions are just too large to give an accurate
evaluation of scene contrast.  And no camera can guess what your
subject of interest is (until they have cameras where you can tell it
"*that's* the subject of interest!"--the EOS A2E may be getting there...).

Maybe a hybrid digital/film camera could do it, or perhaps just a
denser metering pattern.  With thousands of small samples, the range of
contrast could be more accurately determined.

How much difference is there between the exposure you select through
spotmetering vs. the exposure selected by spotmetering?

If it's less than a stop, then just bracket a bit.  The time spent
evaluating the scene may not be worth the extra dollar or so worth of
film and processing.

>Advertising could be defined as the art of making otherwise
>intelligent people think irrationally about the subject being
>advertised.

Corollary:

Marketing could be defined as the crime of making otherwise intelligent
engineers think irrationally about the product being developed.

>		-Alan

ACS
-- 
 ___ ___ ___ ______________________________________________________________
|   |   | __|      Democracy is not a way of getting better solutions.     |
| - | --|__ |           It's just a way to spread the blame.               |
|_|_|___|___|______________________________________________________________|
Alvin_C._Shih____________________acs@csri.utoronto.ca______________________|
Newsgroups: rec.photo
From: tse@ra.nrl.navy.mil (Anthony Tse)
Subject: Re: Camera Feature Wars - Photo Getting Like Video
Organization: Naval Research Lab, Washington, DC
Distribution: usa
Date: Wed, 18 Nov 1992 00:35:00 GMT

In article <1992Nov17.212755.10296@odin.corp.sgi.com= bongers@gto400.asd.sgi.com (Hans L. Bongers) writes:
=In article <13850@texsun.Central.Sun.COM>, dbernard@clesun.Central.Sun.COM (Dave Bernard) writes:
=|> Mark Goldberg makes some good points.  New camera features give more and more
=|> control over less and less.  But in reality, once the film is loaded in your
=|> camera, the only controls you the photographer have are three:  shutter speed,
=|> focus, and aperture.  This is true whether you have a Leica M3 or a bar-code
=|> reading, card-eating, fuzzy-brained wonder.
=|> 
=|> 	Dave    
=
=What a limited viewpoint of control.  Besides shutter speed, focus & aperature,
=you might consider filters & movement (aka panning).  In addition the photographer
=can control lighting & subject...
=
=Should I continue or have you opened your mind to the possibilities???

	I hope you are not implying one cannot do all you mentioned with a
all manual M3.

-Anthony

Xref: sparky rec.photo:20235 misc.forsale:31607
From: reinhard@stsci.edu
Newsgroups: rec.photo,misc.forsale,local.classifieds
Subject: Pentax P3n Camera forsale
Date: 20 Nov 92 18:03:39 GMT
Distribution: local,na
Organization: Space Telescope Science Institute



                              Pentax Camera

                         In Excellent contition.

                            Pentax P3n camera
                          35-70 zoom with macro
                               camera bag
                              owners manual

                               $160 o.b.o.

                  Call Mark at 410-997-6167 (evenings)
Newsgroups: rec.photo
From: cello@wam.umd.edu (Marcelo Silva Gomes)
Subject: Re: Nikon EM \*\*\*
Summary: Nikon FE is an excellent camera... 
Keywords: Nikon, FE 
Organization: University of Maryland, College Park
Date: Mon, 16 Nov 1992 06:15:56 GMT

In article <1992Nov5.035850.143160@ns1.cc.lehigh.edu> sh09@ns1.cc.lehigh.edu (STEVEN HIGGINS) writes:
>In article <1992Nov4.212751.3011@newshub.sdsu.edu>, guest@voyager3.sdsu.edu (Gue
>st User) writes:
>>I  am planning on buyin ga Nikon EM. Could someone give me some info on the
>>camera. Any useful info is appreciated. I am particularly interested in
>>knowing if it has full manual mode and whether it is a good camera for a
>>serious amateur.
>>
>
>    The EM is a decent enough camera for a beginner or somebody who just
>    wants to take snapshots and wants interchangeable lens capability.  If you
>    want to pursue more advanced work I'd suggest a Nikon FE if you can find a
>    clean used one.  The FE _does_ have full manual mode capability (match
>    needle), in addition to Aperture Priority.
>

I've used a Nikon FE for the past 10 years.  It is an excellent 
camera!  I would not sell it to you since I'd be losing money, and
because I'd like to keep it.  I've used it for every type of 
photography you can think of, all over the world, and it's never
given me any serious problems.  I now own a Nikon FM2n as well, 
which might be more value (and camera) for the dollar, when you
consider the price of a FE in good condition.

Marcelo Gomes:
cello@wam.umd.edu  |   ceara@coke.eng.umd.edu


Newsgroups: rec.photo
From: jake@bony1.bony.com (Jake Livni)
Subject: Re: Best price for Canon Elan?
Organization: The Department of Redundancy Department
Date: Fri, 20 Nov 92 16:21:39 GMT



>Note that 47th street photo charge 5% of order for shipping. This isn't


For those people who think that shipping and handling charges in New
York City are unreasonable, you may consider the option of coming into
town and buying in the store  --  and paying 8.25% NY sales tax.

Assuming that you are not otherwise victimised by tolls, parking fees,
parking tickets, broken car windows/stolen radios, stolen wallets,
stolen cameras in shiny pink 47th St. Photo shopping bags that mark
the tourist shopper as an easy sucker, or maybe just a plain old knife
in the belly, the local sales tax alone should convince people that
mail order has it's benefits, even if it has it's drawbacks, as well. 

-- 
Jake Livni  jake@bony1.bony.com              10 years from now, George Bush will
American-Occupied New York                   have replaced Jimmy Carter as the
My opinions only - employer has no opinions. standard of a failed President.
From: eugene@briar.lle.rochester.edu (Eugene Kowaluk)
Newsgroups: rec.photo
Subject: FM & FE + MD11 or MD12
Date: 20 Nov 92 20:05:56 GMT
Organization: UofR Laboratory for Laser Energetics


Yavor B. Parashkevov writes:

> The manual for FM2 describes MD12 as the only drive to use. It also says
> that when attached and turned on, the MD12 will supply power to the
> meter in order to conserve the camera's battery.

That could be the case, because I have left the MD11 on the FM and FE and
both the cameras' and drive's batteries were dead.  While using the MD12
on the FE2, the drive's batteries died overnight while the camera's did
not.

However, the MD11 works fine on the FE2, but I haven't left the drive
on overnight to check the battery situation (mainly cause I'm having too
much fun with the Elan to use the Nikons).

I think it's a poor design on Nikon's part to let the batteries drain in
the drive.


eugene kowaluk
Newsgroups: rec.photo
From: ian@rats.demon.co.uk ("Ian A. Young")
Subject: Re: Darkroom Ventilation
Reply-To: ian@rats.demon.co.uk
Distribution: world
X-Mailer: cppnews $Revision: 1.20 $
Organization: not
Date: Sat, 21 Nov 1992 16:53:26 +0000

In article <7f7d021W2b4U01@JUTS.ccc.amdahl.com>
   bjs@RUTS.ccc.amdahl.com (Barry Sherman) writes:

> But I'm not aware 
> that he odors of acetic acid, fixers and standard paper developers are 
> dangerous.  Anyone know for a fact?

Well, I certainly hope not or I (and I suspect a lot of other people)
are in for big trouble.  On the other hand, acetic acid vapour is a
respiratory irritant for many people (me, for example) and an
unventilated darkroom can be a problem for those people.

My response to this has been to make up my own stop bath from citric,
rather than acetic, acid.  Seems to work fine, and is odourless.

   -- Ian

P.S.  My apologies in advance to donl for mis-spelling odorless :-)
From: goldberg@oasys.dt.navy.mil (Mark Goldberg)
Newsgroups: rec.photo
Subject: Re: Posed photos.  Suggestions appreciated.
Date: 18 Nov 92 14:42:51 GMT
Reply-To: goldberg@oasys.dt.navy.mil (Mark Goldberg)
Distribution: usa
Organization: Naval Surface Warfare Center, Annapolis, MD

In rec.photo, 6500rick@ucsbuxa.ucsb.edu (Richard J. Bessey) writes:
>I have had to take some pictures of various people who
>have won awards or honors.  Invariably, I have to take
>these photos in an office.  Here's my question.
>What can I do to make the standard desk shot more interesting?
>Also, what else can I do in an office?

Are there specialized actvities involved in or connected with their
work?  These should be included as visual elements in the photographs.
Here is an example.

You didn't say what line of work was involved, so let's assume that
one of the subjects has a desk job with computer terminal and is connected
with some type of inventory control.  Rather than the standard desk
shot, why not take the person out to the warehouse.  Take the portrait
with a moderate wide angle lens and include the parts shelves in the
background.  Use a tripod and mixed flahs/ambinet technique to get everything
well exposed.

Suppose the subject is involved in computer graphics work.  Do a multiple
exposure effect to get the person AND the computer screen in the shot.

Bottom line:  Use the photograph to say something about how the recipient
won the award.


   /|/| /||)|/  /~ /\| |\|)[~|)/~   |   Everyone's entitled to MY opinion.
  / | |/ ||\|\  \_|\/|_|/|)[_|\\_|  |      goldberg@oasys.dt.navy.mil
========Imagination is more important than knowledge. - Albert Einstein=======
Newsgroups: rec.photo
From: zrepachol@cc.curtin.edu.au
Subject: Re: EOS 80-200 f/2.8L (was Re: Changing N8008 for the new Canon?)
Organization: Curtin University of Technology
Date: Wed, 18 Nov 1992 11:52:25 GMT

In article <robert.722059049@labtam>, robert@labtam.labtam.oz.au (Robert Groom) writes:
...
> Mine broke due to a small flaw in the moulding.
> I put this down to plain bad luck since I have never had (or heard of)
> any similar problems with this or any other EF L series lenses.
> 
> BTW it took Canon Australia nearly two months to repair it - they had
> to get a new switch sent from Japan! :-(
> 

Well done Canon Aus, 3 flights a DAY from Tokyo, and they take 2 *MONTHS*?? to
get a thumb sized item in!!! For all the noise they make about their rugedness
and professional appeal...

BTW, the 80-200L is explicetly mentioned as having an all metal barrel in the EF
lens rag.

~Paul

Newsgroups: rec.photo
From: alc@gdstech.GRUMMAN.COM (Al Chang)
Subject: Re: Jobo CPE2 CPP2
Organization: Grumman Corporation
Date: Mon, 23 Nov 1992 14:52:54 GMT

In article <1992Nov22.015719.16337@ultb.isc.rit.edu> smk4631@ultb.isc.rit.edu (S.M. Kosoff) writes:
Path: gdstech!rpi!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!cis.ohio-state.edu!rutgers!ub!galileo.cc.rochester.edu!rochester!rit!isc-newsserver!smk4631

   Jobo CPE2 CPP2

   What are the differences in the above?  What advantages does one give
   over the other.

I always get confused with the CPA2 and CPP2. The difference between
the models are:

CPE2 - Lowest cost but doesn't go as large as the CPP/A 2. I have the
CPP(?)2. It is the middle one of the three. The CPP/A goes to 20X24
size print while the CPE2 only to either 16x20 (or 11x14). Thats the
only difference betweem the two lower models. The higher of the three 
support allows a water hookup for rapid water cooling and a more  
accurate digital temperature control. The accuracy is more important
when you develope film which I don't plan on doing.

   I'm interested in color developing and printing, have heard of these
   two models, what do you recomend.  I have done substantial black and
   white, I have a Bessler 67 Dichroic head.  What recomendations do you
   have for starting color.

I went straight to the state-of-art Besseler 45MXT with a 45A
colorhead, so I'm completely spoiled. But the Jobo CPP2 works great
for me. My friend does slides with CPE2 and loves his.


   Please reply to this newsgroup or via phone, having trouble with
   e-mail...

--
******************************************************************************
Al Chang (516)346-6757,  FAX: (516)575-0965, email: alc@calvin.grumman.com
Grumman Data Systems, 111 Stewart Avenue, MS D12/25, Bethpage, New York 11714
******************************************************************************
-- 
******************************************************************************
Al Chang (516)346-6757,  FAX: (516)575-0965, email: alc@calvin.grumman.com
Grumman Data Systems, 111 Stewart Avenue, MS D12/25, Bethpage, New York 11714
******************************************************************************
Newsgroups: rec.photo
From: chawley@andy.bgsu.edu (Chris Hawley)
Subject: Photojournalists?
Organization: Bowling Green State University B.G., Oh.
Date: Wed, 18 Nov 1992 03:05:33 GMT

Are there any photojournalists out there?  I'd love to talk shop--drop me a line
to let me know who you are, or post a message.  

Chris Hawley
chawley@andy.bgsu.edu
From: 1k1mgm@kuhub.cc.ukans.edu (Christopher Gunn)
Newsgroups: rec.photo
Subject: Canon USM 'L'?
Date: 23 Nov 92 16:35:03 CST
Organization: University of Kansas Academic Computing Services

In article <1992Nov24.034248.1@cc.curtin.edu.au>, zrepachol@cc.curtin.edu.au writes:
> In article <PD.92Nov13115803@horus.sics.se>, pd@sics.se (Per Danielsson) writes:
>> In article <2822@tau-ceti.isc-br.com> jimc@tau-ceti.isc-br.com (Jim Cathey) writes:
> Well, the L USMs are by *FAR* the nicest focusing zooms I have ever used. Well,
> the 28-80L is. The non L USMs are too high geared for my liking. The feel is not
                       ^^^
What does the 'L' designate?

Christopher Gunn	Molecular Graphics and Modeling Lab
SPAN--KUPHSX::GUNN	Department of Medicinal Chemistry, Malott Hall
913-864-4428 or -4495	University of Kansas, Lawrence, KS  66045
Newsgroups: rec.photo
From: ka1gt@cbnewsm.cb.att.com (robert.m.atkins)
Subject: Re: 80-200/f2.8 for $$$, why?
Organization: AT&T
Distribution: na
Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1992 18:20:09 GMT

In article <1992Nov19.035957.3597@walter.bellcore.com>, jchen@wind.bellcore.com (Jason Chen) writes:
> There seems to be a lot of interest in fast but expensive zoom lenses such
> as the 80-200/f2.8. I am sure there must be special applications where
> the additional stop worth the money, but I can't understand why there is
> so much interest in paying the large premium for the extra stop.
> 
> For example, the Canon EF 80-200/f2.8 L costs $925 (B&H as a reference), 
> while the 50-200/f3.5-4.5 L costs $499. These two lenses equal optically.
> The differences are the maximum aperture and the minimum focal length.
> I would take the 50-200L any day to save that $425 and to gain
> the 50-80 range at the sacrifice of one stop.
> 
> But then, I am no pro. There must be reasons for the popularity of the
> 80-200/f2.8 lens. What are they?

If you are not a pro (or a photography obsessed amateur!) you probably don't
need the extra stop. What it gives you is:

1 - Ability to take pictures earlier or later in the day (nature photographers
often work at dawn and dusk).
2 - Ability to use slower, fine grain film (publications like this)
3 - Ability to retain AF operation with a 2x multiplier and even a 1.4x
multiplier in the example you give above (the 200 at 4.5 probably won't AF
with a Canon 1.4x).
4 - Better ability to throw backgrounds out of focus
5 - Better resolution at any given f stop (probably)
6 - Ability to use faster shutter speed for moving subjects
7 - Ability to use faster shutter speed for hand held shots
8 - Tripod mount on lens (I think this is true for the example you quote)

If the lens gets you 1 really good shot that the slower lens would have
missed, you could well make back the $425.

===============================================================
Bob Atkins  AT&T Bell Labs  email (direct)  att!clockwise!rma
===============================================================
Newsgroups: rec.photo
From: jain@cs.cornell.edu (Neel K. Jain)
Subject: Re: Rebel vs. Rebel II (2)
Organization: Cornell Univ. CS Dept, Ithaca NY 14853
Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1992 00:55:28 GMT

In article <7176@news.duke.edu> yavor@acpub.duke.edu (Yavor B. Parashkevov) writes:
<deleted>
>I can't remember off the top of my head what the differences are, but
>I think it has 1/2000 shutter speed (Rebel has 1/1000) but I may be
>wrong on this. What I am sure about, however, is that Rebel II has a
>*built-in flash*. So, if someone is trying to sell you over the phone
<deleted>

No it doesn't! The Rebel IIs has a flash, the Rebel II doesn't. I
bought my Rebel II in July and it has (in addition to the 1/2000
shutter speed) a Soft Focus mode, a musical Self-timer and (Canon
claims) faster autofocus. There's a sports PIC mode. which the earlier
Rebel may or may not have.

I have yet to take a picture at 1/2000 or use the Soft Focus mode. My
musical self timer is set to the regular beep option.

Your mileage may vary.

Neel Jain
From: abelsey@scoayr.enet.dec.com (Andy Belsey)
Newsgroups: rec.photo
Subject: DX-coded info in EOS
Date: 17 Nov 92 08:35:52 GMT
Reply-To: abelsey@scoayr.enet.dec.com (Andy Belsey)
Organization: Digital Equipment Corporation


 I've seen quoted in a number of publications that the
Canon EOS 100 (Elan) looks at the DX-coded number of
exposures on the film canister and will rewind when 
this number is reached. However, if you look at the DX 
contacts in the film chamber you will see that there 
are only 6 : one earth and the 5 bits of DX-coded film
speed. There are no contacts on the second column of DX
information (which includes the number of exposures and
the film exposure latitude in stops) therefore the 
camera cannot see this information. I would maintain 
that the EOS 100 will not wind beyond 36 because this 
is the (usual) maximum number of frames in a 35mm 
canister and not because it reads the DX-coded 
information.

 The Canon Megazoom 105 does have contacts for the two 
LSB's of the exposure number but I don't know if it 
uses this information in any way (the instruction 
booklet is very poor in this respect).

 Does anybody know of any other EOS having the full 
range of DX contacts (12)?

		/andy
--
Andy Belsey, VLSI Failure Analysis,
Digital Equipment, Scotland.

Enet: abelsey@scoayr.enet.dec.com
Newsgroups: rec.photo
From: smustopo@nyx.cs.du.edu (sofjan mustopoh)
Subject: Re: Imaging systemSh
X-Disclaimer: Nyx is a public access Unix system run by the University
	of Denver for the Denver community.  The University has neither
	control over nor responsibility for the opinions of users.
Organization: Nyx, Public Access Unix at U. of Denver Math/CS dept.
Date: Tue, 17 Nov 92 15:24:19 GMT

In article <8675@lee.SEAS.UCLA.EDU> annette@boole.seas.ucla.edu (Annette 
. Nasif) writes:
>
>    I am involved with a group of UCLA students who are attempting to
>build an amateur rocket capable of climbing to 200,000ft and transmittin

>back images to the ground.  I would appreciate any input anyone could gi
e
>me on what type of imaging system would be the best.  I would have liked
to
>use a videocamera, but the people working on telemetry say that it would
be
>too difficult to transmit back that much info.  I therefore need to find

>some sort of camera, the lighter and smaller the better, that can take a

>series of snapshots (at least 8 bit resolution) that can be transmitted
>and received on the ground.  Any info that you can give me would be grea
ly
>appreciated.  Thank you
>
>
>



  My suggestion is find a amateur radio clubs. There are amateur
 radio who are in SSTV( Slow Scan TV) or ATV(Amateur tv).
 with a chance to launch their transmitter up there. most amateur
 radio will jump to this chance.
   Also there are quite a number of people succesully. done this
 things. which including ballon flight. 
   and one more nice thing the amateur radio can help track and retrive
 your rocket after it goes down by Radio direction finding.

   Post your invitation to Rec.radio.amateur.misc

 Sofjan Mustopoh
  Smustopo@nyx.cs.du.edu

Newsgroups: rec.photo
From: phr@telebit.com (Paul Rubin)
Subject: Re: candid photo lens? is there such a thing?
Organization: Telebit Corporation; Sunnyvale, CA, USA
Date: 16 Nov 92 17:40:05

You can buy 45 degree mirror gizmos that screw on to the front of your
lens at some camera stores.  One is called "Squintar".  Cost was in
the $30 range.  I think Ritz Camera has them.  Cambridge Camera,
subject of many flames in the mail-order guide, advertises them, but
I'd be very reluctant to order anything from them through the mail.

These things are kind of big and clunky and the ones I've seen need a
Series 7 filter adapter.  You only want to mount it on a medium-to-big
tele lens (so that with the thing attached, it looks like a big tele).
You also want to use it from a reasonable distance, since the subject
is more likely to notice it from close up.

You may be better off rigging a totally hidden camera.
Newsgroups: rec.photo
From: briang@atlastele.com (Brian Godfrey)
Subject: Re: one looks fatter in photos
Organization: Atlas Telecom Inc.
Distribution: na
Date: Sat, 21 Nov 1992 08:30:55 GMT

In article <92Nov13.175932est.47906@neat.cs.toronto.edu>, veatch@cs.toronto.edu (Tim Veatch) writes:
> In alt.supermodels there is a discussion about why thinner
> models are used throughout advertising and to what effect
> this has on society (particularly women and eating disorders).

   I do not read alt.supermodels (nor have I ever heard of it) so maybe my
   theory has already been discussed, but here it is anyway..

   Models of the type which would be referred to as "supermodels" are used
   primarily for marketing.  Marketing relies heavily on exaggeration or
   hyperbole.  Super(thin)models are just a visual form of hype.

   As to whether they cause women's eating disorders, I think not.  The
   vast majority of women see these models every day in ads and do not 
   have eating disorders.  The small number of women who do have eating 
   disorders should look to the real causes of their unhappiness and 
   not blame it on scapegoats.  Also, society should quit labeling any
   woman who does not have the body of a supermodel as having an eating
   disorder.
   
>> A few people thought that a thinner person
>> would "photograph better", simply because the photo
>> would look more like reality, suggesting
>> the old adage (?) that "one looks fatter in photos".

   Nah, I took a picture of a pretty heavy woman a little while ago and 
   she was quite happy that I was the first person in years who had not
   shown her with a double chin.  She definitely looked thinner in the
   photo than in real life.  Sure do wish I knew how I did that...

>> I'd like to hear from this perhaps more experienced crowd in rec.photo.

   Oh! sorry.

>> Personally, it seems bogus.
>> If the photo didn't look like reality, then that would
>> mean that the camera lens is not shaped correctly.

   No, you can do strange things with perspective and focal lengths to 
   make people look fatter/thinner.  But those things work on everyone, 
   not just models and fat people.

-- 
--Brian M. Godfrey
  atlastele.com
Newsgroups: rec.photo