HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: naturman@uctvax.uct.ac.za
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish,soc.culture.arabic
Subject: Re: ERETZ YISRAEL (was Re: deportation)
Date: 12 Jan 93 16:11:26 +0200
Keywords: ot
Organization: University of Cape Town

In article <1993Jan12.013621.26278@trl.oz.au>, faris@sarcasm.trl.OZ.AU (Aziz Faris) writes:
> In article <1is34uINNg4b@pita.cs.huji.ac.il>, aplebaum@irs01.cs.huji.ac.il (Hillel Applebaum) writes:
> |> 
> |> in short, Mr. Aziz, what archaeology books do you read ?
> 
> The old Testament.

In order to work out the correct history of Israel one has to look at
archeological information and acceptable historical documents. The Torah, the
book of Joshua and the book of Judges cannot be taken as history. They are
legends which play an important part in Jewish culture. Although some
Jews believe that these books are history, many do not.

Furthermore, if we must reject these books, then we must also reject the
Palestinian historical revisionism which is based on distorting the contents of
these books to produce new myths which never existed before this century and
which disagree with the archeolgical evidence.

Colin
From: avi@seal.imagen.com (avi zelmanov)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
Subject: Re: Lyrics to Hatikva
Date: 5 Jan 93 00:08:58 GMT
Reply-To: avi@seal.imagen.com (avi zelmanov)
Organization: imagen

>In article 8347@news.ysu.edu, aa324@yfn.ysu.edu (Marlene Miller) writes:
>]Kol od ba-le-vav pe-ni-mah,            So long as still within our breasts
>]Ne-fesh ye-hu-di ho-mi-yah,            The Jewish heart beats true,
>
>Nefesh is usually translated as soul.
>
>]U-le-fa-a-tey miz-rah ka-di-mah,       So long as still towards the East,
>]A-yin le-Tzi-yon tzo-fi-yah,           To Zion, looks the Jew,
>]Od lo av'dah tik-va-te-nu--            So long our hopes are not yet lost--
>]Ha-tik-vah sh'not al-pa-yim--          Two thousand years we cherish them --
>]Li-h'yot am hof-shi be-ar-tze-nu,      To live in freedom in the Land
>]E-retz Tzi-yon vi-ru-sha-la-yim...     Of Zion and Jerusalem....
>]
>]Li-h'yot am hof-shi be-ar-tze-nu      To live in freedom in the Land
>]E-retz Tzi-yon vi-ru-sha-la yim.      Of Zion and Jerusalem.

While the English translation presented above rhymes, sounds nice and
manages to convery most of the ideas in the Hatikva, I thought some of us
would be intrested in the actual translation (more word for word than line
per line).

As well, the word "bat" in the hebrew source was omitted (in "Ha-tik-vah sh'not al-pa-yim" shout be "Ha-tik-vah bat sh'not al-pa-yim").

here's a more accuarte translation:

Kol od ba-le-vav pe-ni-mah,            So long as still within the heart
Ne-fesh ye-hu-di ho-mi-yah,            The Jewish soul yearns

U-le-fa-a-tey miz-rah ka-di-mah,       And towards the East,
A-yin le-Tzi-yon tzo-fi-yah,           An eye is looking toward Zion
Od lo av'dah tik-va-te-nu--            Our hope has not been lost yet,
Ha-tik-vah bat sh'not al-pa-yim--      The hope of two thousand years
Li-h'yot am hof-shi be-ar-tze-nu,      To be (a) free people in the Land
E-retz Tzi-yon vi-ru-sha-la-yim...     The Land Of Zion and Jerusalem....

Li-h'yot am hof-shi be-ar-tze-nu       To be (a) free people in the Land
E-retz Tzi-yon vi-ru-sha-la yim.       The Land Of Zion and Jerusalem....
Xref: sparky soc.culture.jewish:24718 misc.headlines:7420 talk.politics.misc:66579 misc.legal:22145
From: solovay@netcom.com (Andrew Solovay)
Subject: Re: Who did Cain marry?
Organization: Castle Anthrax
Date: Tue, 12 Jan 1993 03:55:45 GMT

In article <1993Jan11.224521.1256@njitgw.njit.edu> dic5340@hertz.njit.edu (David Charlap) writes:
>
>Well, this is fine.  A more complex question would be "who did Noach's
>children marry?"  In that case, there really were no other land-based
>life forms other than the ones in the Ark.

That one's easy. Ham, Shem, and Japeth were already married at the
time of the flood; their wives came with them on the ark. The children
of one of these couples would be first cousins of the children of the
other couples; and under Jewish law, first cousins can marry. End of
problem.
-- 
Andrew Solovay    

"I is not now, nor has I ever been, a Human Bein'!"
                ---Pogo Possum
From: MASH@WEIZMANN.WEIZMANN.AC.IL (Michael Shimshoni)
Subject: Confusion (was Re: Conversion Question)
Organization: Mail to News Gateway at Wang Labs
Date: Tue, 12 Jan 1993 16:13:36 GMT

In: <4892@copper.Denver.Colorado.EDU>
aaldoubo@copper.denver.colorado.edu (Shaqeeqa) admits confusion:

>In article <1993Jan9.053319.2332@noose.ecn.purdue.edu>
>mswihart@rainbow.ecn.purdue.edu (Michael R Swihart) writes:
>>
>>Does this mean a Jew could even believe that there is no G-d, yet
>>still be a Jew? If this is so, why is it that one
>>sometimes sees the idea that a Jew that is an X is not a Jew?
>
>Well, I've always been curious myself how it is exactly that a
>Jew could say that he/she didn't believe in God, yet use
>Biblical claims to support their belief in the state of Israel?
>
>And what about Zionism - a secular philosophy using such a strong
>religious association?

Zionism is  a political movement,  some of its adherent  are religious
Jews of the  various Jewish religious groups which Anisa  as an ardent
reader  of scj  must be  familiar with.   Other Zionist  Jews are  not
religious.  A  agree with  Anisa that  while it  is quite  alright for
religious  Zionists to  use religious  and Biblical  arguments, for  a
secular one to do  so would be meaningless.  I know  what I am talking
about, as I am a secular Zionist.   I base our attachment to Israel to
HISTORY and not  to Divine promises.  We have lived  here, we became a
nation here, we were expelled from here and now have come home.

Anisa might  be interested to read  some of the political  writings of
Ze'ev  (Vladimir) Jabotinski,  the  late Zionist  leader,  and a  very
secular one, but there are many other prominent secular Zionists.

>Admittedly confused ...

Always happy to help in clearing up confusion.

>Anisa

 Michael Shimshoni
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
From: reid@metis.tti.com (Reid Kneeland)
Subject: God's gender (was Re: Torah is the center)
Organization: Transaction Technology Inc.
Date: Tue, 12 Jan 1993 19:14:18 GMT

In article <abramwtz-110193135937@citrine14.bucknell.edu> abramwtz@coral.bucknell (Jon Abramowitz) writes:
>
>Well, I would like to make MY last point- going back to the 'sexist' thing.
> First of all, we call G-d "He".

Forgive me if I'm mistaken, but isn't "shechinah" feminine?  Perhaps
the idea of a female aspect of God isn't so foreign to Judasim after
all?  What does Talmud say about that?

Just more food for fla- er, thought.

=====================================================================
Reid Kneeland
reid@tti.com
Transaction Technology Inc., Santa Monica, CA, USA (310) 450-9111 x2499
The opinions expressed above do not necessarily etc etc...

Never trust a man who can count to 1,023 on his fingers.
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
From: solovay@netcom.com (Andrew Solovay)
Subject: Conversion Jokes
Organization: Free Faerie Front
Date: Thu, 7 Jan 1993 21:59:05 GMT

In article <1993Jan7.195801.23695@ttinews.tti.com> reid@metis.tti.com (Reid Kneeland) writes:
>In article <1ierteINN6k3@pita.cs.huji.ac.il> aplebaum@irs01.cs.huji.ac.il (Hillel Applebaum) writes:
>>to your best knolege, are there many Jews (if at all) 
>>who convert to Xnity or Islam ? are there any of those
>>who do it because they belive them to be more right ?

[very old joke follows]

It seems an old, very pious Jew was on his deathbed. He said to his
wife, "Sarah, the end is near. Get the priest." 

His wife said, "What do you want with a priest?"

The man said, "I want to convert to Christianity."

His astonished wife said, "Christianity? Why? And why now?"

The man said, "Better that a goy should die!"

-- 
Andrew Solovay    

"I is not now, nor has I ever been, a Human Bein'!"
                ---Pogo Possum
From: davis@passy.ilog.fr (Harley Davis)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
Subject: Re: DEATH THREAT TO THE JEWS
Date: 11 Jan 93 16:26:45 GMT
Organization: ILOG S.A., Gentilly, France
In-reply-to: black@ac.dal.ca's message of 8 Jan 93 20:31:06 GMT


In article <1993Jan8.163106.10006@ac.dal.ca> black@ac.dal.ca writes:

			   FARRAKHAN AND JEWISH THREATS

   In this great land of YOURS called Amerikkka, we as Black people
   are supposed to have FREEDOM, JUSTICE, AND EQUALITY.  If we do have
   these things why isn't the Jewish community able to take Farrakhan
   to court for the so-called lies that he is supposed to be
   preaching.  According to Rabbi Oron, and the Jewish Students here
   in Halifax, Canada, Farrakhan has been calling for the death of
   Jews.  If this is the case, then Farrakhan should've and would've
   been charged for malicious intent or death threats, he wasn't.
	
   On the other hand, Jews have called for the death of Farrakhan.  In
   most public arenas that Farrakhan speaks, there is a Jewish
   contingent calling for the death of Farrakhan.  For example, one
   Jew was asked, "Who do you want?"  the reply was "Farrakhan".  Next
   they asked, "How do you want him?"; the Jews repliedm, "DEAD".

   It seems funny that the people who want Farrakhan charged are the
   people who are obviously guilty of that same supposed crime.  My
   suggestion to the Jews who are asking for the arrainment of
   Farrakhan is this, leave this brother alone.  If you as a people
   can't deal with the truth then GET THE HELL OUT!!!

   Dr.Kwame Assad BA(Hons) MA  PhD(Oxford)  

You are obviously lying.  Otherwise, by your own logic, those so-called
Jews who supposedly called for the death of Farrakhan would now be
charged "for malicious intent or death threats".  Since they weren't,
they must not have done what you said.

Congratulations on your PhD; I hope it wasn't in Logic.

-- Harley Davis
--

------------------------------------------------------------------------------
nom: Harley Davis			ILOG S.A.
net: davis@ilog.fr			2 Avenue Gallie'ni, BP 85
tel: (33 1) 46 63 66 66			94253 Gentilly Cedex, France
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
From: reid@metis.tti.com (Reid Kneeland)
Subject: Joke (was Re: reversed conversion
Organization: Transaction Technology Inc.
Date: Thu, 7 Jan 1993 19:58:01 GMT

In article <1ierteINN6k3@pita.cs.huji.ac.il> aplebaum@irs01.cs.huji.ac.il (Hillel Applebaum) writes:
>to your best knolege, are there many Jews (if at all) 
>who convert to Xnity or Islam ? are there any of those
>who do it because they belive them to be more right ?

OK, time for a s.c.j.j.o.t.d:

Abe awoke one night from a strange dream.  In it, Hashem Himself spoke
to Abe, and told him to convert to Christianity!  Abe was troubled by
this, but the dream recurred on subsequent nights, and he eventually
decided that is was real and that he should convert.  He did.

The day after he converted, he awoke in the morning, said Modeh Ani,
dressed, and started putting on his tefillin.  His wife said "Abie, what
are you doing?  You're a Christian now; you don't do that any more".

Abe rolled his eyes, slapped his forehead with his palm, and said:

"Oy! Goyshe kopf!".

=====================================================================
Reid Kneeland
reid@tti.com  (that's MISTER reid@tti.com to you!)
Transaction Technology Inc., Santa Monica, CA, USA (310) 450-9111 x2499
The opinions expressed above do not necessarily etc etc...

Never trust a man who can count to 1,023 on his fingers.
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
From: wc4209@writer.yorku.ca (Irene Berkovich)
Subject: Re: Tum'a after giving birth
Organization: Computer Assisted Writing Centre, York University, Toronto, Canada
Date: Mon, 11 Jan 1993 04:49:59 GMT


>>Some nursing women may not menstruate, but this is definately not a rule.
>>Women who consider themselves safe from conception during nursing quite often
>>find themselves with what are often called "Irish Twins", that is two children
>>born 10 months apart.
>
>You are confused.  I said "menstruate", not ovulate.  No matter when a
>woman resumes her monthly cycle after delivery, she ovulates *first*.  But
>a woman's ovulation is not the basis for  tameh, which is what we were
>talking about.
>
This is not strictly accurate.  It is possible to resume menses
without ovulating.  These are called anovulatory cycles, and are quite
common  in the teenage years and shortly before menopause.

Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
From: gsmlrn@gsm001.mendelson.com (Geoffrey S. Mendelson)
Subject: Re: (Flames, was Re: aliya question - can you bring TWO food processors?
Organization: Mendelson.com
Date: Sun, 10 Jan 1993 04:47:08 GMT

In article <106649@bu.edu> simon1@bass.bu.edu (Simon Streltsov) writes:

>In article <1993Jan8.180030.25741@gsm001.mendelson.com> gsmlrn@gsm001.mendelson.com (Geoffrey S. Mendelson) writes:
>
>>This has been done on a smaller scale by many Soviets who claimed to be
>                         ^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>>Jews,  got exit visas, free transportation, a cash absorption grant 
>>(about $13,000 U.S.) at the border, an Israeli passport in 90 days and then
>>moved to the U.S..

>Just occured to me, that if it is the case, it should be a bigger
>scale, considering respective numbers of Russians and Americans 
>going to Israel.
>>


The reason it was done on a smaller scale is that many of the Soviet "jews"
had little or no belongings or money that they were allowed to leave with.

They only had the baggage they could carry on their flight, there were
no lifts arriving by sea.

Keep in mind that while jews who go to Israel from the U.S. do so by choice,
the soviets had no choice. They could get exit visas to Israel, or they could
defect. Defection was not likely unless you were already out of the country
anyway.

Geoff.

-- 
Geoffrey S. Mendelson 
(215) 242-8712
gsm@mendelson.com     or uunet!gsm001!gsm
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
From: jake@bony1.bony.com (Jake Livni)
Subject: Re: Name of Palestinian Deportees (part i)
Organization: The Department of Redundancy Department
Date: Mon, 4 Jan 93 19:41:26 GMT

In article <4808@copper.Denver.Colorado.EDU> aaldoubo@copper.denver.colorado.edu (Shaqeeqa) writes:

>Guilty enough to collectively punish half a thousand innocent
>people (who have not been proven of any crime in a civil court)?
>Is this 1934 - Nazi Style or 1984 - Thought Police Style?
>
>No, infact they are proud to hold the Holy Quran very high ...
>takbir!

They're lucky they didn't tangle with the Saudi Police a few years
ago.  Surely you remember when the Saudis machine-gunned over 400
Muslim pilgrims in a single day during rioting.  And when 1,400
pilgrims were trampled to death in a single incident a few years
later, King Fahd refused to take responsibilty, calling it "the will
of Allah".  What was that about civil courts and Nazis?  Islamic
fanatics get much, much more lenient treatment from Israelis than from
Islamic Arabs.  Always have.

-- 
Jake Livni  jake@bony1.bony.com              10 years from now, George Bush will
American-Occupied New York                   have replaced Jimmy Carter as the
My opinions only - employer has no opinions. standard of a failed President.
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
From: esafern@shearson.com (Eric Safern)
Subject: Re: Crime/Criminals (Was Re: Feld brothers update)
Reply-To: esafern@shearson.com
Organization: Lehman Brothers, Inc.
Date: Tue, 12 Jan 1993 18:35:10 GMT

In article Luo3wB1w165w@cybernet.cse.fau.edu, waldo@cybernet.cse.fau.edu (Todd J. Dicker) writes:
> > 4. Rabbi Levin has never stated that they are not guilty.  He said that
> >    they are not criminals.  There is a difference.
> -----
> If they are accused of a crime, and they are guilty, then they are
> criminals.  You can't be guilty of a crime without being a
> criminal.  I see no difference.

It all depends on your definitions.

Not everything a state calls a 'crime' really is.

If a country makes it a 'crime' to carry a concealed toothbrush, someone found guilty would be
a 'criminal' by the state's definition, but *I* wouldn't consider him a criminal.

If the Felds are 'guilty' of keeping kitchen knives in their trunk - which may be illegal by
California statute - but nothing else, they are not criminals IMHO.

BTW, not to say this is the situation, but what do you think of those fabled Boro Park men
who kidnap individuals who refuse to give Gets to their wives, and beat them until they sign?

Criminals, sure - but are they 'criminals?'


---
							Eric Safern
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
 Internet: esafern@sisyphus.govt.shearson.com   ...!uunet!sisyphus!esafern
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
From: nabil@ncrcol.ColumbiaSC.NCR.COM (Nabil.Idriss:)
Subject: Re: Israel must NOT return the "garbage"
Organization: NCR E&M Columbia SC.
Date: Fri, 08 Jan 93 15:29:48 GMT

In article <9301072047.AA23177@helix.nih.gov> <norm@helix.nih.gov(Norm Friedman)> writes:
>Add to Alan Stein message: I always wondered how the only pictures to
>appear in our press-show one man on crutches (Which I read; he uses only
>FOR PICTURES) and pictures of prayers. (I wonder what they pray for).  I

They Pray for Allah.

>use the term."garbage" in my subject heading, since that is the term that
>the Lebanese gov't used when they said that Israel could not dump their
>garbage in Lebanon.

You use the term garbage because you are garbage yourself. 

Nabil Idriss
>


Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
From: CPLS13@email.mot.com (Steven_Cohn)
Subject: Re: Eruv
Organization: Motorola_CoveragePLUS
Date: Fri, 8 Jan 1993 12:23:58 GMT
Followup-To: soc.culture.jewish

In article <1993Jan8.120701.19277@lmpsbbs.comm.mot.com>,
hillelm@comm.mot.com (Hillel Meyers) wrote:
> 
> In article <CPLS13-070193164055@145.1.92.160>, CPLS13@email.mot.com (Steven_Cohn) writes:
> |
> |> Even better, there is now an eruv in Chicago!!!  While we were able to
> |> institute an eruv in Skokie (a north suburb of Chicago) about a year ago,
> |> the Chicago eruv became functional about 2 weeks ago.  We are finally a
> |> REAL jewish city now!
> |> 
> 
> Does an Eruv make a Jewish city and can there be a Jewish city
> outside of Israel?
> 
> Hillel

No & No, but what I meant was that many (most?) other major (and many
minor) Jewish communities outside of Israel have had an eruv for some time
now, and with the large Jewish population in Chicago area it just seemed
that we have been "behind the times", and in terms of attracting other frum
people to live here (vs New York, New Jersey, etc - not Israel, I woudn't
try to convince anyone to live outside of Israel, just if they are going
to, in my selfish way I would want them in my own community), the lack of
an eruv in the past has been a big negative.

And, yes I too believe that the true Jewish cities are in Israel (now if I
can only convince my wife of that!).


Steven Cohn
Motorola CoveragePLUS Engineering
CPLS13@EMAIL.MOT.COM
Organization: Queen's University at Kingston
Date: Sat, 9 Jan 1993 15:59:13 EST
From: Andy <2893684@QUCDN.QueensU.CA>
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
Subject: Deportations/ What is HAMAS
 <1993Jan8.234153.8269@midway.uchicago.edu>

In article <1993Jan8.234153.8269@midway.uchicago.edu>, goer@ellis.uchicago.edu
(Richard L. Goerwitz) says:
>
><norm@helix.nih.gov (Norman Friedman)> writes:
>>What is this gibberish.  Hamas is the sworn enemy of Israel, Jews and
>everyone
>>who is not of the Moslem brotherhood (it seems).  They are nothing but a
>bunch
>>of killers who certainly do Not "want to live in peace in
>"Palestine"(wherever
>>that may be) or anywhere else.  They are completley against the so-called
>>peace process and are determined to undermine it in any way they can,        g
>includin
>>murder, kdnapping and terrorism.
>
>Which, of course, justifies shipping them out of the country, and dumping
>them in Lebanon's lap, or, barring that, letting them die in no-man's land.
>Right?
>
>You know, it's funny, but back, way back in the old days, there were no
>big highways, roads, cars, etc., and Israel was a lot bigger than it is now.
>It's now a tiny splotch on the world map, and its security is almost impos-
>sible to maintain within its current borders.  Technology and modern trans-
>portation has shrunk Israel - at least viewed as a military target.
>
>It's an impossible situation.
>
>Come home to America :-).
>
>--
>
>   -Richard L. Goerwitz              goer%midway@uchicago.bitnet
>   goer@midway.uchicago.edu          rutgers!oddjob!ellis!goer

Regardless of what one tinks of the deportees, Israel's act has overnight
made Hamas the leading group among Palestinians. Israel has succeeded in
wasting the sympathy garnished by the murder of the Israeli soldier and
replaced it with sympathy for Hamas. The deportations were politically stupid
to say the least.
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
Subject: The character of Shylock in Shakespeare's "The Merchant of Venice"
From: EXTDSM@LURE.LATROBE.EDU.AU (MADDISON,David)
Date: Mon, 11 Jan 1993 22:43:36 GMT
Organization: La Trobe University
X-News-Reader: VMS NEWS 1.24

This is from the "Did You Know" column in the "The Age" newspaper, Melbourne,
Australia and written by Graeme Donald. This article is dated 11th January,
1993.

********************************************************************************
The character of Shylock in Shakespeare's The Merchant of Venice was based on
the real character of Roderigo Lopez (died 1594), a Portuguese Jewish doctor at
St Bartholomew's Hospital, who in 1586 became physician to Elizabeth I. Those
who resented his influence stitched the doctor up on charges of trying to
poison his royal patient, and secured his execution amid a frenzy of
anti-Jewish ranting. Shakespeare, ever anxious to reflect popular feeling (as
he also did with his character assassination of Richard III), created Shylock in
1595, basing the name on shalach, the Hebrew word for a particularly reviled
and abonimated cormorant, which was denigrated in the Bible by Leviticus and
Deutoronomy. To complete his hatchet job on the Jews, Shakespeare stole and
reversed the old yarn of the honorable Roman Jew Samson Cesena, who was so
victimised by the heartless Christian usurer Paolo Secchi. - GRAEME DONALD
********************************************************************************

David Maddison
Melbourne, Australia
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish,soc.culture.german
From: ohayon@jcpltyo.JCPL.CO.JP (Tsiel Ohayon)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
Subject: Re: Jews for Germans
Date: 4 Jan 93 03:54:08 GMT
Organization: James Capel Pacific Limited, Tokyo Japan

In article godfrey@vxdesy.desy.de writes:

[LAUR] I am disappointed that no-one has responded to my enthusiastic appeal
[LAUR] for members of "Jews for Germans", as organisation of Jews who, like me,
[LAUR] think that Germans are the most inspiring and wonderful people on earth.

[LAUR] regards Laurence

I think you need a brain transplant ...

Tsiel
-- 
----8<--------------------------------------------------------------->8------
Tsiel:ohayon@jcpl.co.jp	   | If you do not receive this E-mail, please let me
Employer may not have same | know as soon as possible, if possible.
opinions, if any !         | Two percent of zero is almost nothing.
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish,soc.culture.german