HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: godfrey@vxdesy.desy.de
Subject: Re: US as No. 1 (3 data books)
Followup-To: soc.culture.usa,soc.culture.canada
Organization: (DESY, Hamburg, Germany)
Date: Sat, 23 Jan 1993 13:39:28 GMT

In article <1993Jan23.034059.21310@lmpsbbs.comm.mot.com>, cbergren@PROBLEM_WITH_INEWS_GATEWAY_FILE (Craig Bergren) writes:
> Gerald Olchowy (golchowy@alchemy.chem.utoronto.ca) wrote:
>> In article <1993Jan22.220321.8579@cbnewsl.cb.att.com> jlacey@cbnewsl.cb.att.com (james.w.lacey) writes:
>> >
>> >One reason, IMHO, why Americans have the "USA #1" attitude is
>> >the relative amount of immigration to American vs. other
>> >countries.  Most Americans are decendents of people who came
>> >here in the last 100 or 150 years.  Most Americans know,
>> >work with, and have friends that were born in other countries
>> >and immigrated to America.   
>> >
>> >The logic is thus, "since hundreds of thousands of people
>> >immigrate to America every year, and millions have immigrated
>> >here over the past century, this must be the best country
>> >in the world."
>> >

Perfectly sound logic.  The US is a million miles from perfect, but it is
a far nicer place than Canada.
> 
>> Canada has twice the immigration rate per capita than the United
>> States has.
> 

What is the point in this statistic - it is the total immigration rate that
demonstrates the appeal of a country to foreigners, not the rate per capita.
A high rate per capita simply suggests a small population, which in turn may
suggest that Canada is not a popular place for immigrants.  Anyay, since the
US has 10 times Canada's population, I infer from your meaningless statistic
that Canada has 1/5 the number of immigrants per year cf. US.  As I also know
that the Canadians accept immmigrants much more readily than the US, then
I also infer that the actual rate of applications for immigration (that is
the true measure of foreigners interest in emigrating to a country) is perhaps
10 or 20 times higher than Canada.

Furthermore, I would remind you that on the first occasion that the US had
a lottery (around 1987) for immigration visas for the US, the Canadian mail
system was absolutely swamped with Canadians rushing to meet the Washington
deadline, that trucks were being hired to drive the applications down to
Washington in time, that Canadians were literally climbing over one another
to get out of Canada to the US.  I was living in Ottawa at the time so, yes,
I do know what I'm talking about.

Canada's attempts to compete with the US are nothing less than pathetic, and
those on the net who would like to persuade us that it's a better place to
live just sound absurd to us foreigners who have tried living in both places.


Laurence

>> Gerald
> 
> See Canadians have that Canada#1 attitude even worse than we.
Newsgroups: soc.culture.usa,soc.culture.canada
From: cbergren@PROBLEM_WITH_INEWS_GATEWAY_FILE (Craig Bergren)
Subject: Re: US as No. 1 (3 data books)
Organization: Motorola Land Mobile Products Sector
Date: Sat, 23 Jan 1993 03:40:59 GMT
Followup-To: soc.culture.usa,soc.culture.canada
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1 PL8]

Gerald Olchowy (golchowy@alchemy.chem.utoronto.ca) wrote:
> In article <1993Jan22.220321.8579@cbnewsl.cb.att.com> jlacey@cbnewsl.cb.att.com (james.w.lacey) writes:
> >
> >One reason, IMHO, why Americans have the "USA #1" attitude is
> >the relative amount of immigration to American vs. other
> >countries.  Most Americans are decendents of people who came
> >here in the last 100 or 150 years.  Most Americans know,
> >work with, and have friends that were born in other countries
> >and immigrated to America.   
> >
> >The logic is thus, "since hundreds of thousands of people
> >immigrate to America every year, and millions have immigrated
> >here over the past century, this must be the best country
> >in the world."
> >

> Canada has twice the immigration rate per capita than the United
> States has.

> Gerald

See Canadians have that Canada#1 attitude even worse than we.
From: gaf5@ns1.cc.lehigh.edu (Gail A. Fullman)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.usa
Subject: Re: Easier way to get a credit card?
Date: 26 Jan 93 12:52:51 GMT
Organization: Lehigh University

In article <C1FKMu.BHu@athena.cs.uga.edu>, shen@athena.cs.uga.edu (Mingzuo Shen)
 writes:
>Hi all,
>
>    Is it appropriate to ask questions about living in the US in
>this group? If not, please excuse this one any way.
>
>    What are the easier ways to apply for a credit card in the US?
>I have lived here for a number of years, first as a graduate
>student, and now as a postdoctoral fellow, with a very low annual
>salary.
>
>    Thanks in advance,
>
>Mingzuo Shen
>
Assuming you have a bank account, apply for the bank's credit card.  Also, gas
credit cards and department store credit accounts are sometimes easy to obtain
[department stores would most likely give you a low credit limit].

If you can, join a credit union and take out small loan [repay within a year].
This builds your "credit history".
-- 

------------------------
|   Gail A. Fullman    |
|   Manager - ADMO     |
|   Ext. 83113         |
------------------------
Newsgroups: soc.culture.usa,soc.culture.canada
From: bross@spartan.ac.BrockU.CA (Brian Ross)
Subject: Re: US as No. 1 (3 data books)
Organization: Dept of Computer Science, Brock University
X-Newsreader: Tin 1.1 PL4
Date: Mon, 25 Jan 1993 15:58:22 GMT

lmcjamo@egg.ericsson.se (Jacques Morris) writes:
: In article <1993Jan23.133928.1@vxdesy.desy.de> godfrey@vxdesy.desy.de writes:
: 
: >Canada's attempts to compete with the US are nothing less than pathetic, and
: >those on the net who would like to persuade us that it's a better place to
: >live just sound absurd to us foreigners who have tried living in both places.
: 
: No we're trying to identify the reasons why the crime rate is higher in the 
: states. We know you hate our guts because of some huge chip on your shoulder 
: so
: your "arguments" carry very little weight here (especially in proportion 
: to the
: bandwidth they take up).

Well, since Laurence is such an objective, scientifically minded chap,
then perhaps my insights are worth mentioning (although it's pointless 
trying to change a bigot). 

I've lived in the US for 5 years, Great Britain for 3.5 years, and Canada 
for 22 years. My final analysis of these three countries is:  

	People are basically the same no matter where you go.  

However, if I had met a large proportion of Godfrey-trons in one particular 
country, that would have definitely skewed my opinion of that place.
Thankfully, Laurence seems to be one in a billion.

: >Laurence
: >
: Ahh, Laurence, Laurence...
: Loosen up, try to relax.
: Life's too short :)

Is this an oblique reference to Ex-Lax?

-- 
Brian Ross                          
bross@sandcastle.cosc.brocku.ca            
Newsgroups: soc.culture.usa,soc.culture.canada,alt.activism
From: tasgal@leo.math.tau.ac.il (Tasgal Richard)
Subject: Re: Some small American's problem (was Re: CKS Airport is great?)
Organization: School of Math & CS - Tel Aviv University , Tel Aviv , ISRAEL.
Date: Sun, 24 Jan 1993 09:00:21 GMT

In article <16B5EC517.RAJA@nervm.nerdc.ufl.edu> RAJA@nervm.nerdc.ufl.edu writes:
>
>Ladies and gentlemen:
>
>
>   I found the following article in social.culture.taiwan that might be of
>interest to you.  I wish it entertains you all as much as it entertains me.
>
>                                        Regards
>                                          RAJA@nervm.nerdc.ufl.edu
>
>In article <C16vE1.M6J@watserv2.uwaterloo.ca>
>ptyshih@watnow.uwaterloo.ca (Paul T.Y. Shih(Taku)) writes:
>
>>
>>Thank you Damon. Let's take a look at "why American are not welcome in
>>most part of the world". There are lots of reasons; ignorant, haughty,
>>rude, look down upon other people..... I can give you tons of reasons.
>>It is a truth that lots American tourists pretended that their are
>>canadian by butting Canadian flag on their luggages or wearing T-shirts
>>with Canadian national flag on when they travel in Asia or Europe.
>>Of course, there are lots "well-educated and elegant" American gentlemen
>>too, I heard from one of them the below when I told him that I am from
>>Canada.
>>
>>        "Oh, you are from Canada, the CIVILIZED north American country".
>>
>>Well, I will say let's just ignore this **** American guy's postings.
>>
>>
>>Paul
>>

Having lived in Canada for four years, I can attest that this view about how
Americans are viewed in the world is a not infrequently expressed opinion in
Ontario.  It appeared most often among people with somewhat unnuanced left wing
views, and I think there was a negative correlation with actually having spent
any significant amount of time abroad.  I know a few people in particular who
heard such views once or twice from foreigners, and accepted them as gospel.
I concluded that they did so more because it complemented their other
worldviews than because of the weight of evidence.


Richard Tasgal
tasgal@math.tau.ac.il


--
                    \
Richard Tasgal       \  "Do not urinate in the direction of the sun."
tasgal@math.tau.ac.il \  - Pythagorus
                       \
From: cindy@solan10.solan.unit.no (Cynthia Kandolf)
Subject: Re: US as No. 1 (3 data books)
Organization: /home/ludviga/cindy/.organization
	<CINDY.93Jan24141023@solan10.solan.unit.no>
	<1993Jan24.154631.1283@athena.mit.edu>
Date: 24 Jan 93 19:19:39

Charles M. Kozierok writes:
>what are these factors [affecting immigration rate] other than desirability?

Well, for one thing, some nations make a point of accepting a "quota"
of so many immigrants from troubled regions, like Kurds from Iraq.
People who fall under these quotas often get little choice about where
they wind up, and often don't care either so long as it's a safe
place.

Another is how well-known the country is for accepting immigrants.
The number of asylum-seekers trying to come into the Scandinavian
countries, for example, is low but increasing, as word spreads around
that so-and-so - a relative, perhaps, or a one-time neighbor - got
into someplace called Norway (8-)).  

Yet another is how close a country is to the trouble.  Countries
bordering what was once Yugoslavia, for example, are noticing a rise
in the number of people who are attempting to immigrate.  Desirability
isn't a factor here, getting the hell out alive is.

>>That's really all i had to say.  If you are happy where you are, then
>>consider yourself lucky - but don't try to convince me i would be
>>happier there!
>
>life is about seeking improvement. if you don't want to improve,
>or you think that where you are is as good as it gets for you, then
>that's fine. i personally think that discussion about what may be
>better than something else (including how it is better, and why)
>is useful.

Well, maybe i should have been a little clearer.  Simply telling me
why you like living where you do, and why you think i might like it
too, is fine.  Telling me that any sane person would want to live
where you do is NOT fine.  And yes, i have had people tell me i'm
crazy because i volunteered to leave the US to come to Norway.  Maybe
you would hate it here - but i'm quite content.

-Cindy Kandolf
 cindy@solan.unit.no
 Trondheim, Norway


Newsgroups: soc.culture.usa
From: shen@athena.cs.uga.edu (Mingzuo Shen)
Subject: Easier way to get a credit card?
Organization: University of Georgia, Athens
Distribution: usa
Date: Mon, 25 Jan 1993 22:18:30 GMT

Hi all,

    Is it appropriate to ask questions about living in the US in
this group? If not, please excuse this one any way.

    What are the easier ways to apply for a credit card in the US?
I have lived here for a number of years, first as a graduate
student, and now as a postdoctoral fellow, with a very low annual
salary.

    Thanks in advance,

Mingzuo Shen

Newsgroups: soc.culture.usa,soc.culture.canada
From: wcsjc@alfred.carleton.ca (John Coughlin)
Subject: Re: US as No. 1 (3 data books)
Organization: Carleton University
Date: Sat, 23 Jan 1993 18:34:04 GMT

godfrey@vxdesy.desy.de writes:

>Furthermore, I would remind you that on the first occasion that the US had
>a lottery (around 1987) for immigration visas for the US, the Canadian mail
>system was absolutely swamped with Canadians rushing to meet the Washington
>deadline, that trucks were being hired to drive the applications down to
>Washington in time, that Canadians were literally climbing over one another
>to get out of Canada to the US.  I was living in Ottawa at the time so, yes,
>I do know what I'm talking about.

Don't you see the connection ?  Those people were trying to distance themselves
from you, Lawrence.
-- 
John Coughlin                           [ insert clever saying here ]
Net: wcsjc@ccs.carleton.ca     Vox: +1 613 957-2851     Fax: 990-7370
From: v052m82q@ubvmsd.cc.buffalo.edu (Monica H Hornman)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.usa
Subject: Re: Communications explosion and cultural progress
Summary: Television and inadvertently positive consequences
Keywords: television evolution
Date: 26 Jan 93 21:30:00 GMT
Organization: University at Buffalo
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41

In article <cass0167.10.728066299@elan.rowan.edu>, cass0167@elan.rowan.edu (DEL CASSIDY) writes...
>COMMENTS ON THIS ESSAY WOULD BE APPRECIATED
>EVOLUTION, TELEVISION, AND A BRIGHTER FUTURE FOR HUMANKIND

Why are you putting this in soc.culture.usa?  Couldn't you have found a more
appropriate newsgroup for this type of "discussion?"

Sincerely,
Mo
From: ng10+@andrew.cmu.edu (Nigel Goddard)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.usa
Subject: Re: US as No. 1 (3 data books)
Date: 25 Jan 93 06:47:44 GMT
Article-I.D.: andrew.8fN1akm0hXuZJCC0gp
Organization: Pittsburgh Supercomputing Center, Carnegie Mellon, Pittsburgh, PA

It is amazing how often I hear sentiments to the effect that
the entire world would move to the US if it could.  I think this
is mainly projection: the author of such comments thinks life
everywhere else is so much worse than it is in the US that only
a lunatic would *not* want to move here.

I think this belief is bolstered by the *relative* parochialism
of people brought up here (compared to Europeans, anyway).
In Holland, for example, if you drive for a few hours you are
in another country.  Here you can drive for days and still be
in the same country.  There are many other reasons for the
relative parochialism, such as the hegemony of US cultural and
information products here and increasingly around the world, the
post-WWII US dominance in international affairs, etc.

The belief that everyone would move here if they could is bolstered
by politicians and other public figures who continuously reinforce
the notion.  The most democratic country, the freest, the best, the
richest, the most powerful, destined to be #1.  Reagan/Bush State
of the Union addresses, even Clinton's inaugural address, articulated
these themes.  In my experience, most Europeans would laugh if
one of their politicians said something like this.  This radical
nationalism probably is related to the Iran-like level of religious
fundamentalism, also an anomoly in a western developed nation.
But that's another topic.

Nigel Goddard
From: gaf5@ns1.cc.lehigh.edu (Gail A. Fullman)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.usa
Subject: Re: Speeding ticket in OKlahoma --- what's SP8?
Date: 26 Jan 93 12:48:20 GMT
Organization: Lehigh University

[stuff deleted]
Was there ever an answer to thr original question - what is SP8?  Inquiring
minds want to know!
-- 

------------------------
|   Gail A. Fullman    |
|   Manager - ADMO     |
|   Ext. 83113         |
------------------------
From: jlacey@cbnewsl.cb.att.com (james.w.lacey)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.usa
Subject: Re: Easier way to get a credit card?
Date: 26 Jan 93 17:41:19 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: AT&T

In article <C1FKMu.BHu@athena.cs.uga.edu> shen@athena.cs.uga.edu (Mingzuo Shen) writes:
>Hi all,
>
>    Is it appropriate to ask questions about living in the US in
>this group? If not, please excuse this one any way.
>
>    What are the easier ways to apply for a credit card in the US?
>I have lived here for a number of years, first as a graduate
>student, and now as a postdoctoral fellow, with a very low annual
>salary.
>

(1) Department stores, like Sears, will give almost anyone
a credit card with a low credit limit (say $200).  Get
one or two of these cards (from different stores of course),
use them enough to show that you pay the bills on time,
and you will, in a year of so, develop a "credit history".

(2) Some credit card companies (like American Express, for
example) will give cards to graduating college seniors
who have professional jobs lined-up.  Perhaps they will
give you one under similar circumsances.

(3) If you have money in a bank or credit union, take out
a passbook loan and pay it back on time.

(4) Beward of "services" that say that they will get
you charge cards and you have to pay them a fee
up front.

 

-- 
     Jim Lacey  --  my own opinions    
     email:  att!cbnewsl!jlacey  or  jlacey@cbnewsl.cb.att.com
     D'ou venons-nous? Que sommes-nous? Ou allons-nous?
From: haverkam@uni-duesseldorf.de (Wilhelm Haverkamp)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.usa
Subject: Tagung ueber Rechnernetze in Chemitz
Date: Thu, 28 Jan 1993 13:21:46 GMT
Organization: Universitaetsrechenzentrum, Heinrich-Heine-Universitaet Duesseldorf
NNTP-Posting-Host: haverkamp.rz.uni-duesseldorf.de

Anfang Juni findet die 7. Tagung ueber Rechnernetze an der
Uni Chemnitz statt, verbunden mit Tutorium und Workshop.
Das Programm kann wie folgt mittels ftp abgerufen werden:

 ftp clio.rz.uni-duesseldorf.de
 login  : ftp
 passwd : ftp
 cd chemnitz
 dir
 get tagungsankuendigung
 quit

Xref: sparky soc.culture.usa:10103 soc.culture.japan:14290 soc.culture.british:19400 soc.culture.canada:10382
From: silva@pangea.Stanford.EDU (Holly Silva)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.usa,soc.culture.japan,soc.culture.british,soc.culture.canada
Subject: Re: US as No. 1 (3 data books)
Date: 26 Jan 1993 05:58:54 GMT
Organization: Stanford Univ. Earth Sciences
NNTP-Posting-Host: pangea.stanford.edu

irvine@uxh.cso.uiuc.edu (Brent Irvine) writes:
>
>While most people know recent immigrants, I doubt it has much impact
>upon the self-image of the US.

	The original poster spoke about the effect of massive immigration
over the past 100-150 years effecting an extra-positive self-image 
among Americans. He was not particularly referring to the effect of
recent immigration, something that everyone (especially one Canadian
poster) seems to have ignored.
	My mother's people came to New York City from Bohemia and
Germany just before the turn of the century. They were unflamboyantly
rabid about America. I was raised on stories of how glad they were to
leave the old country, how they eschewed speaking the old tongue
(mostly german) and raised my grandmother as an episcopal (not one
of your major sects in Mitteleuropa). The remembrance of this view
affects me to some degree even now, 100 years after my ancestors
emigrated. This is, I believe, what the original poster was getting
at: our legacy of stories and personal histories. It's also possible
he was referring to the effect of continued emigration from depressed
and distressed parts of the world. People from badly damaged societies
(i.e. Europe immediately after WWII, Vietnam immediately after the
Vietnam War) make up a significant proportion of the immigrants to 
America, and they always have. Many of them react very favorably to the
comparative safety of this place (a degree of safety that is 
badly disrupted by the present crime wave).

	And that brings me to another point that everyone seems to
have ignored. To the best of my knowledge, the title "We're Number 
One Again" was chosen in bitter irony. Many of the stats cited in 
this book show us as "#1" or well up there in many unflattering,
disturbing areas. In issues such as infant mortality rates among
minorities or violent crime among 'developed' nations.

--
======================================================================
|| Holly Silva			I have nothing terribly clever to say||
|| Applied Earth Sciences	today.  You're in luck.		     ||
|| Stanford University						     ||
Newsgroups: osu.indian,soc.culture.usa,soc.culture.indian
From: sghose@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (Sumit Ghose)
Subject: baby
Organization: The Ohio State University
Distribution: oh
Date: Thu, 21 Jan 1993 20:53:28 GMT





                   Baby-Sitter Available


If you are looking for a baby-sitter,for your or your friend's or relative's 
kids,  please call Urmi Ghosh Dastidar at
267-5479 and leave a message.
Xref: sparky soc.culture.usa:10276 soc.culture.japan:14479 soc.culture.british:19639 soc.culture.canada:10560
From: andy@nff.ncl.Omron.Co.Jp (Andy Krantz)
Subject: Re: US as No. 1 (3 data books)
Reply-To: andy@nff.ncl.omron.co.jp
Organization: Omron Computer Systems R&D Labs 
Date: Tue, 26 Jan 1993 01:59:05 GMT

In article <1993Jan25.220240.1@vxdesy.desy.de>, godfrey@vxdesy.desy.de writes:
> In article <1k1aa5INNp2f@pandora.sdsu.edu>, larryr@saturn.sdsu.edu (Larry Riedel) writes:
> > My experience has been that a large percentage of the people who have
> > emigrated to Canada did so because they couldn't get into the United
> > States (green card, citizenship, etc.), and the closest real country
> > (not just in location) is Canada.
> > 
> > Larry
> 
> Absolutely agreed.  Canada is hugely inferior to the US in all respects,
> and Canadians occupy considerable time and efort ina fruitless attempt
> to try to convince people otherwise.  To the rest of us it looks rather
> ludicrous and a little sad.
> 
> Laurence

Lord, this "person" ( and I use the term lightly) has gotten to this group
too (meaning soc.culture.usa). I knew he had infected soc.culture.canada but
luckily I have a good vaccine (broad based and mutating KILL file).

Now it seems that I will have to apply the heavy guns and use a global
vaccine. 

-- 
 Andy Krantz   andy@nff.ncl.omron.co.jp   \ Everyone stares at me 'cause I is
 Phone: +81-75-951-5111 x3691 FAX: 956-7403\ gaijin. I understand nobody and 
 OMRON Corp., Computer Systems R&D Labs    / nobody understand me. How could
 Shimokaiinji, Nagaokakyo Kyoto, 617 Japan/   I possibly speak for company?
Newsgroups: soc.culture.usa,soc.culture.japan,soc.culture.british,soc.culture.canada
From: jac54@cas.org ()
Subject: Re: rec.xenophobia (was Re: US as No. 1)
Organization: Chemical Abstracts Service, Columbus, Ohio
Date: Wed, 27 Jan 1993 11:24:44 GMT

In article <1993Jan26.195800.7139@adobe.com> cjackson@adobe.com (Curtis Jackson) writes:
>A premise is put forward: "Americans think that the USA is #1"
>
>Alec makes the blatant and illogical assumption that I think
>the USA is #1 for these reasons, and tears into me and the USA,
>
>I now conclude that Alec is a reactionary bore, and refuse to
>defend the obviously indefensible; I never intended to defend
>the type of thinking I was characterising.

	Oh, I'm wounded!  What I was getting at, and it was not
	at you, was what I consider to be the greatest factor
	underlying social problems in the U.S.  That is, the
	weak connection between rights and responsibilities.
	The individual has responsibilities to the society in
	which they live that lead them to moderate their unfettered
	exercise of these rights for the good of the society as
	a whole.  In some countries this is the stronger tendency,
	Japan is considered to be a good example, whereas in the U.S.
	the equilibrium is tilted much more towards the rights of
	the individual at the expense of the society.  A society
	is much more than a collection of individuals, it is a
	collection of people willing to work together and give
	up something for the common good.

	I was hoping to start a discussion on this and see if we could
	get some opinions together on how the balance of rights and
	responsibilities could be changed in the U.S. without falling
	into excess.

	Alec

Newsgroups: soc.culture.usa