HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: Richard Lowery <loweryr@grits.valdosta.peachnet.edu>
Subject: MINIX Machines
Originator: mmdf@louie.udel.edu
Organization: University of Delaware
Date: Tue, 12 Jan 1993 02:21:42 GMT

Hello, 
	I have a rather pressing question, but just so you people know where I am coming from I am a Sophmore Transfer to Valdosta State College, from Embry-Riddle Aero. Univ.  I first got my run in with UNIX at ERAU, now DOS just does NOT do it at all.  Now I only have a 286-16 and want to run Unix or something very much like it, I have heard that Minix will work on some 286 machines, can anyone verify this and if it will do you have any suggestions on where I can find it or something like it pretty cheap?  
		Very Appreciative,
			Richard

loweryr@grits.valdosta.peachnet.edu
-- 
Mail System (MMDF)
Newsgroups: comp.os.minix
From: cwr@crash.cts.com (Will Rose)
Subject: Re: problems on creating the "minix-1.6.24b"
Organization: CTS Network Services (crash, ctsnet), El Cajon, CA
Date: 07 Jan 93 20:18:47 PST

Andy Tanenbaum (ast@cs.vu.nl) wrote:
: 
: On a separate subject, there had been a lot of complaining about the ACK
: ANSI compiler here of late.  It is as though people expected it to be free
: software.  It is commercial software, as I have said many times here, and
: is part of the Amsterdam Compiler Kit, which sells for $995, and has sold a
: fair number at that price (mostly to universities and companies).
: 

Just to make it clear, I for one do *not* expect Minix or the compiler
to be free - and for what it's worth again, $995 for the ACK kit seems
cheap.  But I am not a university or a company, I'd like to have continued
working on  Minix, and the last compiler upgrade (separate I&D) cost ~$70.
(And was well worth it, again).  A x3 price rise seemed excessive, given
what was being sold - if you want to be commercial, you play by the
commercial rules, and sell software that works and the support to go
with it.

Will
cwr@crash.cts.com
From: heim@peanuts.informatik.uni-tuebingen.de (Gerald Heim)
Newsgroups: comp.os.minix
Subject: Re: Version 1.6.24b upgrade problems
Date: 7 Jan 93 11:51:22
Organization: organisiert? ich? ach was!
	<HEIM2.93Jan5163449@schroeder.informatik.uni-tuebingen.de>
	<C0FoC5.I7E@cs.vu.nl>
NNTP-Posting-Host: spike.informatik.uni-tuebingen.de
In-reply-to: ast@cs.vu.nl's message of Wed, 6 Jan 1993 13:04:52 GMT


Yes, I may have been wrong. Sorry.
But I have found some Programms in there where the patches are larger than
the sources (e.g. commands/ic).

Nevertheless I have tried to get 1.6.24b up and running. And I failed.
The first problem was building the library. Tsort is still buggy.
(Well not exactly: I could compile a working tsort using gcc and linux :-> )
Then I managed to build a new kernel, mm, fs and init.
I was not able to get the new tools (forgot the names, substitutes for
build and menu) running. They compiled w/o a warning, but didn't work.

It seems to me, that the filesystem format has changed a bit, but I could
find no documentation on it.

All in all, this is such a story of frustration that i have decided to:

 - Stay with 1.5.10 since this patching needs too much time even using
   a 12 MHz-286. (Where are these masochists still using XTs? :->> )

 - Use the available patches for 1.5.10: shared text, virtual consoles,
   shutdown/reboot, nice .... 
   This will result in a nice, stable and usable system.

 - 1.5.10 is POSIX enough for me. For special cases I will use Linux.
   Linux has a almost complete C-library, almost everything compiles fine.
   1.5.10 uses the same filesystem format as Linux, so they are pretty
   compatible this way (except symlinks, but that won't matter).

 - I won't ever sell my copy of Minix, since I will never find a
   fool that will even pay half the price I paid. :->

gjh

BTW: Has anybody numbers of ppl actually using Minix? It seems the numbers
     are decreasing, considering all the "mama, please unsubscribe meeeee!"
     news in the last weeks...
From: heim2@snoopy.ach-mist-hab-den-hostnamen-wieder-vergessen (Gerald Heim)
Newsgroups: comp.os.minix
Subject: Re: Version 1.6.24b upgrade problems
Date: 11 Jan 93 09:42:28
Organization: /home/heim_ti/.organization
	<1993Jan07.202941.15013@crash> <1993Jan10.210111.27640@csusac.csus.edu>
NNTP-Posting-Host: snoopy.informatik.uni-tuebingen.de
In-reply-to: laurent@babbage.csus.edu's message of Sun, 10 Jan 93 21:01:11 GMT


forgive me, forgive me, i didn't want to start another flame war,
it's completely ok, if you still use your XT for Minix (what else
could you run on an Xt, if you wished something stable, unix-alike)
since this was intended as a joke, i had put an evilly grinning smilie
in the bracket... ":->"

sorry

gjh
Newsgroups: comp.os.minix
From: fpp@minor.UUCP (Frank Pursel)
Newsgroups: comp.os.minix
Distribution: world
Subject: 1.6.23 libraries
Keywords: MINIX, upgrades
Organization: UUCP
Date: Wed,  6 Jan 93 00:21:25 +0100

What gives on this net.  Everyone loves to argue.  Since everyone 
has put in their two cents, I will add mine.  I like Minix.

That said, I would like to know where I can get 1.6.23 include file
that is used in lib/other/fdopen.c: "../stdio/loc_incl.h".  I ftp'ed
the 1.6.23 upgrade from ftp.Uni-Koeln.de and lib/stdio is nowhere to 
be found.  It's ironic that when I got 1.6.16 and was missing some
routines everyone said, "you might as well get 1.6.23, you'll find the
missing files there."  Now that I have 1.6.23, I fully expect everyone
to tell me to get 1.6.24b.  Since I've shared that with everyone, please
try to restrain yourselves in making that point.  

For the time being I made up my own loc_incl.h file based on the defines
that were spelled out when I tried to compile lib/other/fdopen.c.  I've 
bluffed my way through everything but the definition of __iotab[i].  
"loc_incl.h" doesn't seem to have a great deal in it and I would bet is 
very short, I would appreciate it if someone could mail me a copy.

In any case, now that the holidays are over, I can get back to getting
1.6.23 to run.  So far, I'm frustrated that after adding to libc.a, and
reordering it per Andy's second patch file I got a bunch of undefined
references when I tried to compile "life.c."  Oh well, it may have just been
a bad file to try first.  "life.c" uses curses and though I have Andy's posted 
copy of curses.h, I have a funny feeling the 1.6.23 version of curses.c 
may be the source of my problem.   

Frank Pursel peora!jwt!minor!fpp

  



Newsgroups: comp.os.minix
From: ast@cs.vu.nl (Andy Tanenbaum)
Subject: Re: problems on creating the "minix-1.6.24b"
Organization: Fac. Wiskunde & Informatica, VU, Amsterdam
Date: Wed, 6 Jan 1993 13:21:04 GMT

In article <1648@uitecgw.uitec.ac.jp> nemossan@uitec.ac.jp (Sakurao NEMOTO) writes:
...
Thanks for the fixes.  I will look at them.

>2) There are many people who can not access by "ftp".  It seems to me
>that many people lost interest this news group because of this situation.

I will distribute the fixes via the newsgroup, but I didn't want to do that
for the beta testing because they are so big.  Once time will be enough.
I will wait a little to see if more beta test reports and fixes come in,
then I will send out megabytes on the newsgroup (and get the net police
very angry with me).  Is there a bulletin board in Japan where the cdiffs
could be stored to make it easier for Japanese users to get them?


On a separate subject, there had been a lot of complaining about the ACK
ANSI compiler here of late.  It is as though people expected it to be free
software.  It is commercial software, as I have said many times here, and
is part of the Amsterdam Compiler Kit, which sells for $995, and has sold a
fair number at that price (mostly to universities and companies).

Andy Tanenbaum (ast@cs.vu.nl)
From: glalonde@vnet.ibm.com (Glen Lalonde (448-4278))
Date: Tue, 5 Jan 93 09:59:51 EST
Newsgroups: comp.os.minix
Subject: Protected memory, MacMinix.

Once the update to MacMinix to 1.6.24 is posted(please post soon), I will
update my protected memory changes to remove the hack which was needed to
allow some processes to run without protected memory. This can be removed
since calls to the mac OS/Toolbox will now be done by the kernel on behalf
of the program.

This should make the protected mode memory changes more generic, even though
they would be easy to apply on a Amiga/Atari even as they are now.


Did a final version of the GCC 2.x port even get released for 68K minix?
I recall the talk/location of the 'beta'.

I finally got around to using the c68 compiler(new version) to build the
MacMinix kernel, and it worked perfect. Many thanks to the people who
updated the compiler.
From: yee@mipg.upenn.edu (Conway Yee)
Newsgroups: comp.os.minix
Subject: Re: ACK ANSI Compiler
Date: 6 Jan 93 17:09:58 GMT
Organization: University of Pennsylvania

In article <1993Jan6.163649.17110@udel.edu>, henrik@husc.harvard.edu writes:

|> Yes, it's true that packaging could cost less than $200. 

The cost of the ACK ANSI compiler.

 However, don't forget
|> the time spent designing, debugging, etc.  

True.

1>Time spent in QA.  

Questions and Answers?  For ACK compilers?  Nearly all support is on
comp.os.minix!  Nobody pays com readers for support.

|>Time spent
|> writing usable documentation.  

What documentation?  The K&R C compiler was never fully documented.

|>Time spent bugfixing.  

True. But I don't recall any compiler updates.

|>All of these require
|> good people.  Good people cost money (and well they should - they need to
|> eat, too).

True but if Good People cost money, the Good Users should see some benefit 
from the generated bugfixes, documentation and support.

The true reason for the $200 was recently (perhaps inadvertently) posted by
ast.  The company distributing the ACK ANSI compiler has a monopoly on it.

411 Blockley Hall      |                    Conway Yee, N2JWQ
418 Service Drive      | yee@ming.mipg.upenn.edu    (preferred)
Philadelphia, PA 19104 | cy5@cunixa.cc.columbia.edu (forwarded to above)
(215) 662-6780         |
From: groot@idca.tds.philips.nl (Henk de Groot)
Newsgroups: comp.os.minix
Subject: Re: I want to be a MINIX fan too (Summary).
Date: 5 Jan 93 09:21:03 GMT
Reply-To: groot@idca.tds.philips.nl (Henk de Groot)
X-Disclaimer: This opinion is mine alone

Summary:

Starters with MINIX should get version 1.5 from PH. Upgrades are only
available on the net, not from PH. Don't wait for 2.0, it will probably be
1994 before that one comes out. Updates are available on archive sites, see
Minix Information Sheet.

Kind Regards,

Henk.

P.S. Don't followup anymore, reply via E-Mail if necessary.

--
  /   /            Henk de Groot      | Dep.: IISS-SE (System Management)
 /---/ __  __  /   Loc: V2/A05        | Mail: groot@idca.tds.philips.nl
/   / (-_ / / /(   Tel: +31 55 432104 | Digital Equipment Corporation
Newsgroups: comp.os.minix
From: groot@idca.tds.philips.nl (Henk de Groot)
Newsgroups: comp.os.minix
Subject: I want to be a MINIX fan too.
Date: 4 Jan 93 12:14:05 GMT
Reply-To: groot@idca.tds.philips.nl (Henk de Groot)
Disclaimer: This opinion is mine alone

Hello Minix fans,

I want to become a minix-fan too. So I start with buying the software. I read
the Minix information sheet, and see how I can order MINIX 1.5. Then I read
on.

Frist of all there is talk about MINIX 2.0 comming out soon (1992?). Then I
see in the list of archive sites the many patches for version 1.5.

When I look at the newsgroup and see talk about version 1.6.24.

Now I'm asking for advice because I'm confused: Should I buy version 1.5 and 
get hold of the patches to make it 1.6.24? Can I buy version 1.6.24 directly
from Prentece Hall? Should I wait a month and start with version 2.0?

Please help me. If the information is relevant, I want to run Minix on an
AT-class PC (P3204 Philips 8 MHz + 20 Mb disk).

Thanks!

Henk.

P.S. Best whishes for 1993!

--
  /   /            Henk de Groot      | Dep.: IISS-SE (System Management)
 /---/ __  __  /   Loc: V2/A05        | Mail: groot@idca.tds.philips.nl
/   / (-_ / / /(   Tel: +31 55 432104 | Digital Equipment Corporation
Newsgroups: comp.os.minix
From: cwr@crash.cts.com (Will Rose)
Newsgroups: comp.os.minix
Subject: Re: ACK ANSI Compiler
Date: 5 Jan 93 09:08:51 GMT
Organization: CTS Network Services (crash, ctsnet), El Cajon, CA

Andy Tanenbaum (ast@cs.vu.nl) wrote:
: In article <1i5nm6INN40n@werple.apana.org.au> 
	hock@werple.apana.org.au (Warwick Hockley) writes:
: >I think the main point is that most people feel that the 3 compilers should
: >be unbundled, and the price for each reduced appropriately.
: 
:That doesn't work out economically.If we were to remove the Modula and Pascal
: front ends, the amount of stuff on the distribution disk would only decrease
: slightly, and the number of disks required wouldn't change at all. The amount
: of overhead in processing the order wouldn't change, nor would the shipping 
: cost.  In effect, we threw in the Pascal and Modula front ends for free.
:

The compiler and libraries take up < 1 360KB disk under 1.3.  You appear
to be implying that the bulk of the $200 cost is shipping and distribution.
Looking at the current prices for commercial software, I'm pretty sure that
one disk can be sold at a profit for a lot less than that.  Alternatively,
if you are saying that the new C compiler is of itself worth $200, then
dream on.

Will
cwr@crash.cts.com
Newsgroups: comp.os.minix
From: philz@eeserv.ee.umanitoba.ca (Haosheng Zhou)
Subject: Conversion from DOS to MINIX format
Keywords: C compiler
Organization: University of Manitoba, Winnipeg, Canada
Date: Sun, 10 Jan 1993 07:04:21 GMT

Hi guys and gals,

For some reason I would like to re-compile the kermit program. Since 
the linker with MINIX cannot handle the job due to huge size of the 
program, I would like to compile the kermit with TURBO C in DOS. Thus I
need a utility that converts the executable from DOS to MINIX format.

I also have difficulties using my modem since it is mounted at COM4. The
dial function in kermit is disabled (strange), so I don't know how to
dial the line for connection.

I shall appreciate if any MINIX fan could give me some clue.

Just one comment on the document that comes with MINIX 1.5 package: it
doesn't supply sufficient details for users. Example: the manual with
MINIX 1.5 should address problems in use of kermit: how to set up special
files for it and re-build the system if necessary--I have to figure it
out myself (with helps from Andy) that I should (and could) use tty4 for
my internal modem. Then slowly I figured it out that I should re-build
the system so it can handle tty4. Now the problem is that the kermit
with MINIX cannot dial!

Phil  --A Former OS9/New MINIX user
Newsgroups: comp.os.minix
From: Chuck Collins <cpc@chkpt.com>
Subject: Does anybody read this mail????
Originator: mmdf@louie.udel.edu
Organization: University of Delaware
Date: Sat, 9 Jan 1993 08:11:36 GMT

I've been getting 25 messages a day from the MINIX mailing list that are
bouncing off of my machine. I've sent mail to half a dozen addresses trying
to get it to stop.

Will someone please respond to this mail?

Please remove xdos!raghu from the mailing list. The address is bad.

Stop it.
-- 
Mail System (MMDF)
From: jamesh@Apple.COM (James Hammett)
Newsgroups: comp.os.minix
Subject: Where is Tin for Minix?
Date: 10 Jan 93 19:27:24 GMT
Organization: Apple Computer Inc, Cupertino, CA

Does anyone know where I can find Tin for minix.  It is an NNTP
thread based newsreader.

Please reply via email and I will summarize to the net.


			thanks,
			james
Newsgroups: comp.os.minix
From: malte@techfak.uni-bielefeld.de (Malte Uhl)
Subject: Re: ACK ANSI Compiler
Date: Thu, 7 Jan 1993 20:02:43 GMT
Organization: Universitaet Bielefeld, Technische Fakultaet.

In article <C0HpKv.3t7@cs.vu.nl>, ast@cs.vu.nl (Andy Tanenbaum) writes:
|> 
|> While I really don't want to continue this pointless discussion much longer,

[ .. lots of statements deleted .. ]

|> Andy Tanenbaum (ast@cs.vu.nl)

Ok, we all know the reasons for ACK not being free now. I'd like to raise a
serious discussion about using gcc only for compiling and developing Minix
on all of the supported platforms. As Linus Torwalds stated some postings ago,
$200 for a however-good compiler set is more expensive than a free compiler
and some memory.

Why do I think so ? gcc runs on a very wide variety of platforms, produces
reasonably "good" code and implements the (are there more than one ?) ANSI
standard. Agreed, it is a memory hog, but you'll have a hard time searching
for a C program that you cannot compile with, say 4 MB RAM. This is what
an Atari ST is capable of.
A nice (in my opinion) side effect of using gcc would be the removal of
80[012]86 support and its a fine occasion to make integers 32 bits large
by default, too.

There are a couple of arguments more I could give here now, but this will
lead us too much into detail.

No flames please, I'm only trying to raise a discussion about this.

Malte
From: michael@gandalf.moria (Michael Haardt)
Newsgroups: comp.os.minix
Subject: Re: ACK ANSI Compiler
Date: Tue, 05 Jan 93 00:24:38 +0100
Organization: An old and gray machine, somewhere in Moria.
Distribution: world
Reply-To: u31b3hs@pool.informatik.rwth-aachen.de (Michael Haardt)
NNTP-Posting-Host: messua.informatik.rwth-aachen.de

In article <1993Jan3.115527.11032@klaava.Helsinki.FI>, torvalds@klaava.Helsinki.FI (Linus Torvalds) writes:
> The only people I see using the new ANSI compiler extensively would be
> people with old PC/XT's, and if they can put up with that kind of
> hardware, thay should certainly be able to put up with an older release
> of the compiler as well (*).  It's not as if you could port many
> standard unix programs to a 64+64kB machine anyway, so the lack of ANSI
> shouldn't be that bad an experience: you'd just have to write your
> programs using K&R. 
> 
> 		Linus
> 
> (*) It's a joke guys.  Well, mostly.  Tongue in cheek, you know. 

I wonder why unproto isn't used more.  It does a pretty good job, at
least the rc shell compiled using it on 16 bit Minix.  You don't need
_PROTOTYPE at all.  Once someone posted diffs for an improved cc.c which
had flags for using unproto and the floating point converter, so setting
a flag in the makefile is all.  It doesn't give you a true ANSI
compiler (with paying much money), but an ANSIfied k&r compiler with
floating point (and not spending any money).

For some things you need BCC, they don't compile using ACK.  It is also
a lot faster.  In some points it was better than ACK, in some ACK won.
Having both is easier for porting software.

And when things get tough, (true ANSI C or binary gets 70k with BCC and
ACK says cg: bombed out), try Turbo C 2.0.  I used it once for several
things, and crosscompiling isn't difficult.  Optimise AUTOEXEC.BAT and
/etc/rc for fast booting, and you don't get gray hairs, especially
because it compiles pretty fast.

Michael "thinks back of the old times"

PS: Did nobody archive the flame war last time?  I already saw an offer
    for "Minix vs. Linux" as compressed tape archive, what about this
    thread?
Newsgroups: comp.os.minix
From: laurent@babbage.csus.edu (Laurent Chavey)
Subject: compiling the amoeba kernel for minix
Summary: trying to compile the amoeba kernel. error 256 as a result. 
Organization: California State University, Sacramento
Date: Tue, 12 Jan 93 23:18:04 GMT

I compiled the usr/src/amoeba/kernel , but each time I keep on geting two
errors, 
         dp8390.s _dp8390_ multiple declared 
         dp8390.s _eth_stp_ multiple declared.

 then make returns with an error 256.
Has anyone compiled the amoeba kernel, if so did you get the same error, and how did you fix it.

I have minix version 1.5.

thanks.
From: kdw@oasis.icl.co.uk (Keith Walker)
Newsgroups: comp.os.minix
Subject: Re: ACK ANSI Compiler
Date: 7 Jan 93 11:26:27 GMT
Organization: International Computers Limited

In article <1993Jan05.005757.13952@crash> cwr@crash.cts.com (Will Rose) writes:
>There are two problems with using K&R - compiling 1.6 kernel and sources,
>and debugging code without lint.  The one advantage of ANSI C for my
>money is that prototyping catches a number of errors that only lint can
>otherwise reach, and there is no lint for Minix, and I don't have the

The C386/C68000 compiler supports prototypes (shame that it's too big
for standard PC minix as it requires more than 64K code and data :-().
The prototypes do not cause "automatic" casting of parameters - they
just allow type/size checking.  When I implemented prototypes this was
a deliberate decision as it allowed me to make a check on the size of
the parameter passed with the size of the parameter expected.  This is
usefull for detecting code which would work under an ANSI C compiler
but break when compiled with a K&R compiler.

>time, interest or skill to write one.  ANSI C does a  number of things
>I don't want it to do, but prototyping is handy.

I'm interested in knowing what ANSI C does that you don't want it to do?

I've always wondered why there isn't an public domain version of lint (I
guess I'm hoping that someone will prove me wrong) as unlike a compiler I
would expect a lint to be portable across any architecture.

	Keith Walker

Keith Walker, ICL, Lovelace Rd., Bracknell, Berkshire, United Kingdom RG12 8SN
Email: kdw@oasis.icl.co.uk; Phone: +44 344 424842 x2209; Fax: +44 344 487832
Keith Walker, ICL, Lovelace Rd., Bracknell, Berkshire, United Kingdom RG12 8SN
Email: kdw@oasis.icl.co.uk; Phone: +44 344 424842 x2209; Fax: +44 344 487832
Newsgroups: comp.os.minix
From: Dave Burgess <burgess@hrd769.brooks.af.mil>
Subject: Re: Version 1.6.24b upgrade problems
Originator: mmdf@louie.udel.edu
Organization: University of Delaware
Date: Wed, 6 Jan 1993 19:59:39 GMT

> From:         Chris Person <chrisp@CEPHB.CEPHB.FR>
> 
> This is also my dream, like for monthes I spent nights trying to patches to
> 1.6.?? without any success. I have found a patch kit to 1.5.10 but this is
> for 1.3-from update. Is there a kit from 1.5 to 1.5.10 somewhere ?
> 

  If you bought 1.5 from Prentice Hall, you already have 1.5.10.  If you try 
to patch from 1.5.10 to 1.5.10 using the 1.3 to 1.5.10 patch kit, you can 
be pretty well assured that the resulting files will diverge from the current
CRC list.

> the ideea of a minimal set of diffs is good, better should be a way to get
> a full library source tree than patchs to it.
> 

  Be sure to check the list in the README to be sure you are patching from/to 
the correct versions.  The 1.6.23 patchkit should have been from 1.5, I think.
The 1.6.24b should have been from 1.6.23.

TSgt Dave Burgess

-- 
Mail System (MMDF)
Newsgroups: comp.os.minix
From: laurent@babbage.csus.edu (Laurent Chavey)
Subject: debugger
Organization: California State University, Sacramento
Date: Mon, 11 Jan 93 01:25:57 GMT

Newsgroups: comp.os.minix
Subject: debuger for minix on ibm-pc
Summary: looking for a source code debuger for minix 1.5 on ibm-pc 
Expires: 
Followup-To: 
Distribution: 
Organization: California State University, Sacramento
Keywords: 
I am looking for a source code level debuger for minix. I do not know where to
start looking for it.
If any one knows where I can find one on the internet, or knows of any good
books or articles on how to write a debuger, I would be please to have the 
informations passed on.
Thank you.

Newsgroups: comp.os.minix