HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: augustho@aludra.usc.edu (August Horvath)
Newsgroups: sci.aeronautics
Subject: Re: PAUL GARBER
Date: 27 Sep 92 03:08:24 GMT
Organization: University of Southern California, Los Angeles, CA
NNTP-Posting-Host: aludra.usc.edu

In article <1a2jeaINN7vi@bigboote.WPI.EDU> megazone@dolomite.WPI.EDU (MegaZone23) writes:
>In article <154@newave.newave.mn.org> john@newave.newave.mn.org (John A. Weeks III) writes:
>>In <1992Sep25.121457.4802@eng.umd.edu> lind@eng.umd.edu (Charles A. Lind):
>>I wonder what the logic of the NASM is in restoring the Enola Gay, a plane
>>that they will never be able to display, and of a relatively common type
>>(as far as museums go) while some truely one of a kind German and Japanese
>>planes of WWII remain hidden from view at the Garber facility.
>
>The Enola Gay has a HUGE role in history, being the first aircraft, and so far
>only 1 of 2, to drop a nuclear weapon in anger. (What happened to Bock's Car?)
>Plus the ASM tends to be Ameri-centric, the stress on American aeronautical 
>history isn't official, but it is real. (Whether or not it is moral is another
>question...)
>
>And the ASM is (supposedly) establishing an Annex for the display of large
>aircraft, ie, Enola Gay, the Dash 80, B-47, B-52, Blackbird, etc. It was 
>supposed to be at a nearby field, the name of which I've forgotten, and 
>everything was set. But then other states and locations started bitching that
>there was no reason to put it near DC, etc, etc, and now they are caught up in
>a load of red tape.

I believe the annex has now been finalized as located at Dulles Airport.  Plans
are for the annex and the Enola Gay to be completed at about the same time and
for the Enola Gay to be displayed there.

Bockscar is displayed in the AF Museum at Dayton.  Judging by the reaction of
a visiting friend from Japan when I managed to communicate to him which B-29
it is, these machines have more meaning for at least some museum visitors than
a generic Superfort would.

It could be argued that the Enola Gay and Bockscar were minor and ancillary
elements in the A-bomb story, but they are among the few that have the status
of tangible artifacts.  In the more immediate sense they represent reminders
of a particular strategic decision that is still controversial, given its
relationship to the conduct of the war, long-term military strategy, and
contemporary racial attitudes in the US.

The Axis types at the Garber are not quite hidden from view.  The ones that
are restored and viewable can be seen in the tours of the Garber offered by
NASM.  You have to reserve, but they are free and I find them more en-
joyable than visiting the downtown facility.

August Horvath <augustho@aludra.usc.edu>
From: David.Anderman@ofa123.fidonet.org
Newsgroups: sci.aeronautics
Subject: California Aerospace Forums
X-Sender: newtout 0.02 Sep 21 1992
Date: 29 Sep 92  08:38:10

California's Aerospace Industry To be the Focus of Forums
 
    The California Space Development Council, a coalition of
pro-space organizations in California, is sponsoring a series of
forums during October to discuss the future of the aerospace
industry in California, and the future direction of America's
space program. 
    On Saturday, October 3, at the Riverside Central Library, 
in downtown Riverside, a congressional candidate forum will be
hosted by the Inland Empire Space Group at 10 am. Among the
candidates invited to the forum are Congressman George Brown,
the current chairman of the House Committee on Space and
Technology, and Dick Rutan, the pilot of the Voyager
around-the-world aircraft. The candidates will address the
issues of preserving aerospace jobs in California, and the
future of the nation's space program.
    On Thursday, October 8, at 7:30 pm at the Reuben H. Fleet Space
Theater in Balboa Park, San Diego, congressional candidates will
discuss aerospace issues and the space program. The event will
be hosted by San Diego L5, a chapter of the National Space
Society.
    On Saturday, October 24, at 10am, at the Sandman Inn, in Santa
Barbara, a forum on the future of the California aerospace
industry will feature representatives of industry and political
figures.
    The general public is invited to attend all of these events and
admission is free.
    For more information on these events or the California Space
Development Council, please contact David Anderman, Events
Coordinator for CSDC, at 714/524-1674.
 

--- Maximus 2.00
From: schaefer@sal-sun32.usc.edu (Peter Schaefer)
Newsgroups: sci.aeronautics
Subject: Re: Most evil looking mother that ever flew (was Re: F-23 Dead? Nahh....
Date: 1 Oct 1992 16:23:29 -0700
Organization: University of Southern California, Los Angeles, CA
Distribution: usa
NNTP-Posting-Host: sal-sun32.usc.edu



I can't believe all these pretty planes being called "evil mothers".......
Now you want to talk about evil.........about ugly...........
How about those Stuka's the krauts were flying around the beginning of 
World War II.  Those big inverted gull wings, long cannon barrels,  Those things 
were UGLY!  Put a screamer on it and a big old swastika on the tail, and man...
I can't think of any modern aircraft that presents the image of the grim reaper
in quite the same way.

					!@#$
Xref: sparky sci.aeronautics:2195 sci.anthropology:980 sci.astro:10415 sci.bio:3460 sci.edu:1065
From: hrubin@pop.stat.purdue.edu (Herman Rubin)
Newsgroups: sci.aeronautics,sci.anthropology,sci.astro,sci.bio,sci.edu
Subject: Re: TEEN TALK BARBIE
Date: 5 Oct 92 16:11:16 GMT
Organization: Purdue University Statistics Department

In article <1992Oct5.134133.5876@relay.nswc.navy.mil> bwallet@apssgi.nswc.navy.mil (Brad Wallet) writes:
>In article <1992Oct2.200215.7008@cs.ucla.edu>, quam@humpback.cs.ucla.edu (David Quam) writes:
>|> >In <9210020414.AA23034@quaestor> carasso@inference.com writes:

>|> >% Just heard that Mattel Toys has just made a talking Barbie that has
>|> >% four canned messages it speaks.  One of the messages is "Math classes
>|> >% are hard."  The other messages are supposed to pertain to hair and
>|> >% shopping...
>|> >% Yet another way to drive the M-F ratio in the sciences to even worse levels...
>|> >% The official name of the product is "Teen Talk Barbie".


>|> Don't be too hasty now!  The doll also says "I'm studying to be a
>|> doctor".

>Who can't add?

THIS is not too serious; many people, including many mathematicians, are
not that great at arithmetic.  The more serious problem is 

	Who has no idea of when to add.
-- 
Herman Rubin, Dept. of Statistics, Purdue Univ., West Lafayette IN47907-1399
Phone: (317)494-6054
hrubin@pop.stat.purdue.edu (Internet, bitnet)  
{purdue,pur-ee}!pop.stat!hrubin(UUCP)
Newsgroups: sci.aeronautics
From: lind@eng.umd.edu (Charles A. Lind)
Subject: Re: PAUL GARBER
Date: Sat, 26 Sep 92 12:37:29 GMT
Organization: College of Engineering, University of Maryland, College Park
Originator: lind@valkyrie.eng.umd.edu


In article <154@newave.newave.mn.org>, john@newave.newave.mn.org (John A. Weeks III) writes:
>In <1992Sep25.121457.4802@eng.umd.edu> lind@eng.umd.edu (Charles A. Lind):
>> The Paul E. Garber restoration facility, outside of DC, was named in his
>> honor.  This facility restores aircraft for the NA&SM, its biggest project
>> at the moment being the Enola Gay.
>
>I wonder what the logic of the NASM is in restoring the Enola Gay, a plane
>that they will never be able to display, and of a relatively common type
>(as far as museums go) while some truely one of a kind German and Japanese
>planes of WWII remain hidden from view at the Garber facility.
>
>-john-
>
>-- 
>==============================================================================
>John A. Weeks III		(612) 942-6969		    john@newave.mn.org
>Newave Communications, Ltd.			    ..!uunet!tcnet!newave!john


As far as PLANES go the B-29 is a common type of plane.  However,
only one of these B-29's had a major inpact on the way we live 
today: Enola Gay.  I believe the NASM is a showcase of planes and other
aerospace related vehicles which have had a major inpact on our lives,
the B-29 is no exception.  There is no question as to where it belongs.


Charles

Newsgroups: sci.aeronautics
From: ahpman@mentor.cc.purdue.edu (James Baronowsky)
Subject: Re: Most evil looking mother that ever flew (was Re: F-23 Dead? Nahh....
Organization: Purdue University Computing Center
Distribution: usa
Date: Thu, 1 Oct 1992 13:53:58 GMT

In article <1992Sep30.204741.25175@av8r.uucp> ahogan@av8r.uucp (Alicen Hogan) writes:
>
>> 
>> 	Was it true that "Iraqi soliders dropped their weapon when they
>> saw the the sight of the Apache" in Op. DS?  
>> 	I saw this quote from NewWeek a while ago with a picture of
>> Apache on it....
>> 				Ming
>

	<Stuff Deleted>

>With all this talk about impressive aircraft, I'm surprised no one has
>mentioned the A-10, Warthog.  Granted, it's been out for a while and
>it doesn't LOOK as impressive as most, but it delivers a hard punch
>and can take more hits than some of the others previously discussed.

>Alicen Hogan						av8r!ahogan
>Daniel Webster College				   ahogan@av8r.uucp

	I too must agree that the A-10 Thunderbolt was and still is one 
	   ground-thumpin' example of aviation perfection.  I believe
	   I heard in an episode of "Wings Over the Gulf", (on the 
	   Discovery channel), that the Iraqi soldiers refrenced it to 
	   a ghost, because it was so silent that it would literally
	   sneak up on ground installations and have them destroyed before
	   anyone could do anything to stop them.  Also seen in this episode
	   of "Wings", was an A-10 returning from its sortie to find that
	   a rather LARGE chunk of the fuselage had been "removed" by 
	   a SAM.  The pilot said that he felt no diference after the
	   shock of the hit, which he didn't think was on his aircraft.
	   Survivability is one strong point the pilots love and 
	   Fairchild/Republic is proud of.
	As for not looking as impressive as other aircraft, I don't think
	   the A-10 needs to look impressive.  It's doing a great job 
	   just looking scary as hell!  Immagine if you will, sitting
	   in the comfort of your tank, only to look out your sight
	   and see an A-10 homing in on you.  I myself would probably
	   evacuate my bowels before it even fired on me.

Just MHO.
 		Wolverine

	(anyone happen to know the actual name that the Iraquis gave the A-10
	 having to do with "ghost"?)
From: eugene@wilbur.nas.nasa.gov (Eugene N. Miya)
Newsgroups: sci.aeronautics
Subject: Re: why all this chit-chat in this group?
Date: 6 Oct 92 05:55:12 GMT
Organization: NAS, NASA Ames Research Center, Moffett Field, CA

Oh yes, I forgot this quote for you:

"On the contrary," I answered.  "It's because somebody knows
*something* about it that we can't talk about physics.  It's the
things that nobody knows anything about that we *can* discuss.  We
can talk about the weather; we can talk about social problems;
we can talk about psychology; we can talk about international
finance -- gold transfers we *can't* talk about, because those are
understood--so it's the subject that nobody knows anything about
that we can talk about!"

R. P. Feynman

--eugene miya, NASA Ames Research Center, eugene@orville.nas.nasa.gov
  Acting Associate Editor, Software and Publication Reviews
  Scientific Programming
  {uunet,mailrus,other gateways}!ames!eugene
Seeking Books to buy:	Bongard, Pattern Recognition
			Imhof, Cartographic Relief Presentation
			Books on or by Benjamin Whorf
			Wulf et al, The Design of an Optimizing Compiler
From: GORDON@UKCEVM1.VNET.IBM.COM (Gordon C Smith, IBM Greenford, UK.)
Date: Mon, 28 Sep 92 08:56:31 BST
Newsgroups: sci.aeronautics
Subject: View at Fresno/Van Neuys
Reply-To: GORDON@UKCEVM1.VNET.IBM.COM

 I am taking a short trip to California next month. I have several
aviation related plans, but I have a couple of questions which I hope
someone may be able to answer. (Actually it's the same question about
two locations!).
 Can anyone tell me if it is possible to view any of the military air
movements at Fresno and Van Neuys (sp?). Are there any good places to
view and perhaps photograph the ramp and/or approach at either of these
fields?
 Cheers, Gordon

Disclaimer: Any opinion detected in this posting is not that of IBM.
News-Software: Usenet 3.0
X-X-From: Gordon Smith
From: jac@mentor.cc.purdue.edu (John Clear)
Newsgroups: sci.aeronautics
Subject: Re: Most evil looking mother that ever flew (was Re: F-23 Dead? Nahh....
Date: 1 Oct 92 01:16:56 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: Purdue University Computing Center

In article <BvF3J1.6ML@news.cso.uiuc.edu> jbh55289@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (Josh 'K' Hopkins) writes:
>ahogan@av8r.uucp (Alicen Hogan) writes:
>
>>With all this talk about impressive aircraft, I'm surprised no one has
>>mentioned the A-10, Warthog.  Granted, it's been out for a while and
>>it doesn't LOOK as impressive as most, but it delivers a hard punch
>>and can take more hits than some of the others previously discussed.
>
>The A-10 gets my vote too.  Sure, it doesn't look sleek and fast, but it 
>doesn't have to :-)     
>

'Here is a really big mean gun... Go design a plane around it.'

	A-10 gets my vote too.  It doesnt go fast, or look nice and sleek like
a fighter, it can take some hits and keep flying.  I remember during the Gulf 
War, the media showed one that suffered a hit, lost the upper surface and part
of the lower surface of one wing, flamed out an engine, and made it back ok.  

John
-- 
John A Clear -- jac@mentor.cc.purdue.edu, clearja@sage.cc.purdue.edu
PP-ASEL   C/LTC, CAP-NYW                                 
"When you think how well basic appliances work, it is hard to believe 
anyone ever gets on an airplane" -- Calvin and Hobbes
From: megazone@dolomite.WPI.EDU (MegaZone23)
Newsgroups: sci.aeronautics
Subject: Re: PAUL GARBER
Date: 26 Sep 1992 21:07:22 GMT
Organization: WPI USAF -- United Society of Animation Fans
NNTP-Posting-Host: dolomite.wpi.edu

In article <154@newave.newave.mn.org> john@newave.newave.mn.org (John A. Weeks III) writes:
>In <1992Sep25.121457.4802@eng.umd.edu> lind@eng.umd.edu (Charles A. Lind):
>I wonder what the logic of the NASM is in restoring the Enola Gay, a plane
>that they will never be able to display, and of a relatively common type
>(as far as museums go) while some truely one of a kind German and Japanese
>planes of WWII remain hidden from view at the Garber facility.

The Enola Gay has a HUGE role in history, being the first aircraft, and so far
only 1 of 2, to drop a nuclear weapon in anger. (What happened to Bock's Car?)
Plus the ASM tends to be Ameri-centric, the stress on American aeronautical 
history isn't official, but it is real. (Whether or not it is moral is another
question...)

And the ASM is (supposedly) establishing an Annex for the display of large
aircraft, ie, Enola Gay, the Dash 80, B-47, B-52, Blackbird, etc. It was 
supposed to be at a nearby field, the name of which I've forgotten, and 
everything was set. But then other states and locations started bitching that
there was no reason to put it near DC, etc, etc, and now they are caught up in
a load of red tape.

###############################################################################
# I have one prejudice, and that is against stupidity.  Use your mind, think! #
#Email megazone@wpi.wpi.edu  Moderator, WPI anime FTP site 130.215.24.1 /anime#
###############################################################################
From: d9bertil@dtek.chalmers.se (Bertil Jonell)
Newsgroups: sci.aeronautics
Subject: Re: El Al 747 Crash in Amsterdam
Date: 6 Oct 92 07:55:21 GMT
Organization: Chalmers University of Technology

In article <eric-051092093128@cider.cs.ruu.nl> eric@cs.ruu.nl (Eric Nieuwland) writes:
>Does anyone out there know how a 747 can have a fire in two engines at the
>same time?

  Birdstrike from a flock of birds?

  Stinger?

>--eric

-bertil-
--
"It can be shown that for any nutty theory, beyond-the-fringe political view or
 strange religion there exists a proponent on the Net. The proof is left as an
 exercise for your kill-file."
		"Revive the Swedish-Madagascan Brigand Pact!"
Newsgroups: sci.aeronautics
From: swkmorri@nuscc.nus.sg (Perry Morrison (Dr))
Subject: Inflatable aircraft
Organization: National University of Singapore
Date: Tue, 6 Oct 1992 04:18:48 GMT


When lying on my inflatable bed, I've often wondered if it would be
possible to create an inflatable wing (with appropriate stiffeners for
support). I had in mind something like a square shaped wing with a
proper airfoil and decent wingspan. It would also require a short rear
structure to control pitch and some ailerons. I would see a number of options:

1. Suspension of the pilot a la paragliders with lines controlling
appropriate control surfaces.

2. A short boom descends from the tail structure to provide seating
and/or 3-axis control.

There is an ultralight sailplane called the monarch which has such an
abbreviated tail unit and pilot enclosure.

I see a couple of advantages:

1. Footlaunchable with the portability of a paraglider (almost) with much 
better aerodynamic performance perhaps even than some hang gliders.

2. Cheap to  manufacture

Cons?: 
Subject to UV degradation
Perhaps too much "stiffening" support would be needed to make it very
portable.

Comments?

Perry Morrison


Newsgroups: sci.aeronautics
From: zari@math.ethz.ch (Alain Zarinelli)
Subject: aerodynamics/speed question
Organization: Swiss Federal Institute of Technology (ETH), Zurich, CH
Date: Sat, 3 Oct 1992 10:39:24 GMT

Hi everybody

Some time ago I posted the following question to rec.aviation. I just
got ONE answer which suggested reading a book by B. Etkin "Dynamics of
Flight -- Stability and Control". I ordered the book in the ETH library
but unfortunately it won't be available until end of november 92... I
would appreciate _ANY_ further info on the subject!

------------------here comes the original article-------------------

When I flew with my instructor for the PP, he told (and showed to) me,
that when the aircraft is properly trimmed, flying at a specific air
speed, then, as you take back power, it will descent
_WITH_THE_SAME_AIRSPEED_ it had, at a specific rate of descent. That's
ok, I believed it since I saw it.

Last monday, when flying my first (official :-)) ifr approach in the
simulator, I remembered this fact when the instructor told me "ok,
you're on the glide, maintain 120 knots and a constant descent rate". As
the ILS is at 3 deg the descent rate for 120 kt is 647 ft/min. When I
got slightly above the glide I _just_ reduced the power, without
changing anything on the pitch. Perfectly standard, isn't it!

But then I wondered "WHY is this so?". There is no "obvious" reason, why
the speed should be the same, is there!? So I played a little physics
(after all, I am a physicist and I should be able to...) and got the
following result:

  If v is the air speed before the power reduction, v' the one after
power reduction, and Delta the pitch angle, then

                     v' = v * [cos(Delta)]^(1/2),

  which would suggest that the speed remains the same just for _small_
pitch angles! This is just fine in Delta = 3 deg and works fairly well
up to Delta = 7 deg. This looks somewhat strange to me...

And now my question: Is there someone on the net who asked the same
question and also figured out the physics behind it? If so, would she/he be
so kind to confirm my result or if not, e-mail me "her/his correct"
explanation.

                                                    Thanks in advance!
							Alain.
--
Alain Zarinelli                                            (PPL-CVFR/NVFR)
zari@math.ethz.ch                                                         
zari@astro.phys.ethz.ch               "If God had meant man to fly ---
zari@czheth5a.bitnet                   He would have given him more money"
From: chadwemy@wpi.WPI.EDU (Chad Barret Wemyss)
Newsgroups: sci.aeronautics
Subject: Re: F-15 Thrust to weight
Date: 1 Oct 1992 20:44:04 GMT
Organization: Worcester Polytechnic Institute
NNTP-Posting-Host: wpi.wpi.edu
Keywords: SR-71, MiG-25

In article <1992Oct01.165025.16513@eng.umd.edu> fencer@eng.umd.edu writes:
>
>Although the MiG-25 was initially intended to intercept high speed bombers, its mission was
>shifted to interception of all high speed aircraft. One of the targets was the SR-71 Blackbird.
>The Blackbird could also be intercepted by missiles, but the MiG-25 Foxbat provided additional
>coverage.

While it was theoretically possible to take down a Blackbird with a SAM shot, 
it would have to be flying on exactly the right course in relation to the 
launch site, because of the tremendous speeds and immense altitudes involved. 
With the latest generation of long range strategic SAM's (such as the SA-12B
Giant), the Russians might be able to destroy a Blackbird, but older missiles
such as the SA-5 Gammon would have a very difficult time.  

The MiG-25 Foxbat, and it's newer counterpart the MiG-31 Foxhound, armed with 
long range AAM's, could also have a chance at taking down a Blackbird.  
However, a kill would again involve a tremendously lucky Russian.  The MiG's 
can reach about 75,000 ft on a good day, but this requires every drop of fuel, 
and all the power they can squeeze out of the engine.  This means that they 
have no loiter time to wait for the SR-71 to fly past, 30,000 feet *above* 
them and at least 0.5 Mach faster.  With such a large speed and altitude 
difference, the chances of a successful missile shot drop to nearly nil.

As far as I know, no SR-71 was ever destroyed on an overflight of Russia.  The 
chances of a kill with the available systems were very slim, and even the 
Russians aren't going to pop off multi-million ruble missiles on shots that 
aren't going to hit.  

_______________________________________________________________________________
Nothing in this article is classified.  All information came from readily 
available public sources.
_______________________________________________________________________________

---Chad Wemyss, Worcester Polytechnic Institute
From: egb008@comp.lancs.ac.uk (Mr R D Felton)
Newsgroups: sci.aeronautics
Subject: Re: Ram Jet
Date: 6 Oct 92 12:38:53 GMT
Organization: Department of Computing at Lancaster University, UK.

In article <1992Oct4.043118.9441@porthos.cc.bellcore.com> waelder@navaho.uucp (25612-waelder) writes:
>Ramjet engines sound interesting. Can anyone please send me a
>list of texts which cover the design and operation of ramjet
>engines. What I'm looking for is information which will allow
>designing, building and using it along with a composite solid
>fule rocket motor on a high power rocket design.


This could lead to quite a few interesting home-made rockets......
Instead of e-mailing individuals can this info be posted here?

While I'm here, has anyone out there got any info on how to make small
model rockets capable of going 50-100 meters or so?

Richard Felton.
FCS group. SECAMS. Lancaster University. U.K
E-mail : egb008@uk.ac.lancs.cent1
Newsgroups: sci.aeronautics