HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: gaia@wam.umd.edu (L. Anathea Brooks)
Subject: Re: Gosip in 1993(The Public Trial of Appsoft Draw - be on the Jury)
Organization: University of Maryland, College Park
Date: Fri, 22 Jan 1993 01:23:56 GMT

In article <1993Jan21.185151.26004@squid9.cuc.ab.ca> terry@squid9.cuc.ab.ca writes:
>What happened here?
>
>Yesterday it was 'Draw is crap. Appsoft should be nuked for releasing this  
>product. Draw is unuseable.'
>
>Today it's 'Draw has promise. Draw is OK. We use Draw all the time.'
>
>Is it always going to take threats like Randy Adams' to get people to switch  
>from whine-and-bitch mode to constructive-criticism mode?
>
>I think Randy's (obvious) anger is justified. This thread has a particularly  
>suitable name, but it should have been prefaced with 'malicious'.
>
>Terry Wilcox
>
>-- 
>Terry Wilcox		| 'Next to the originator of a good sentence 
>terry@squid9.cuc.ab.ca	| is the first quoter of it.'
>NeXTmail welcome	|  - RALPH WALDO EMERSON

Well, not exactly. Draw always had promise, else we would have just 
chucked it and asked for a refund.

The thing was that tools would NOT stay selected, which alone
rendered the darn thing an enormous pain to use. It was "unusable"
according to my definition (if I can't use an app to do what
the app exists purportedly to do, it's not usable).

Version 1.03, put out because of this pressure, is a little better. 
Tools still don't stay chosen, but not as bad as before. 

The reason the criticism was tempered all of a sudden was because
Mr. Adams was it seemed threatening to drop Draw. Obviously, we 
wanted some other type of response, like a promise to fix the bugs, 
or have them fixed by the author of Draw. That I think we will get. 

The list price of Draw is $295. For that, I think an app should work
correctly. Nobody was attacking Appsoft per se. Clearly we're all 
glad it exists. Hell, ANY NeXT developer deserves a pat on the 
back for existing. However, when an app has defects, why keep quiet
about it? We did pay good money for a defective product. And Appsoft 
didn't include a file which said "this app doesn't really work very 
well, but here it is anyway..." NeXTWorld gave Draw one of their ever-
glowing reviews (they're getting a bit better in this respect). But the 
darned app didn't work correctly. That's why we complained. Personally
I wish Appsoft a long life and all the prosperity... Malicious, no. 


Brooks

Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.advocacy
From: shiva@vega.Stanford.EDU (Marcos Javier Polanco)
Subject: Re: Sun to use DisplayPostScript!!!
Organization: DSO, Stanford University
Date: Mon, 25 Jan 93 20:25:56 GMT


Does NeXT make any money on
Sun's Display Postscript licenses?
I understand it was joint work between Adobe and NeXT.

-Marcos J. Polanco
-shiva@vega.stanford.edu
Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.advocacy
From: lorinr@altsys.com (Lorin Rivers III)
Subject: Product of the Year Award/Virtuoso
Keywords: Virtuoso
Organization: Altsys Corporation, Richardson, TX
Date: Tue, 26 Jan 1993 22:58:24 GMT

To all of you who voted for Virtuoso as the Product of the Year for
Overall Best Software, Software Desktop Publishing, and Software
Graphics categories,  we would like to thank you for your support and
votes! Altsys is committed to making Virtuoso the best graphics
program available, and we are excited that the NeXT community likes
the results. 

If anyone is interested in more information about Virtuoso, feel free
to email us at Virtuoso_info@altsys.com or call us at 800-477-2131.
--
Meaghan Hogan
Altsys Corporation
mhogan@altsys.com



-- 
Lorin Rivers
Lorin_Rivers@altsys.com
Altsys Technical Support
269 W. Renner Parkway
Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.advocacy
From: serge@dadofsam.Princeton.EDU
Subject: An idea for improving NeXT performance
Originator: news@nimaster
Keywords: performance cpu processors
Reply-To: serge@dadofsam.Princeton.EDU
Organization: Princeton University
Date: Fri, 22 Jan 1993 19:06:46 GMT



Rather than coming out with a marginally superior 40-MHZ nextstation, I think  
NeXT should look into packing two 68040's into one next, with the second cpu  
doing nothing but running DPS.  Think about it --- a whole processor just to  
run the window server!  And it's probaby not that hard, at least at a software  
level, since you have to go through the kernel (mach ports) to get to the  
window server, n'est-ce pas?.  A small kernel mod to cause a cpu switch when  
delivering a mach message, and you're off to the races!  And once you've got  
that working, you've got the elements needed to build a NeXTTerminal.

Serge J. Goldstein
Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.advocacy
From: mwelch@aardvark.ucs.uoknor.edu (WELCH,MICHAEL)
Subject: What I don't understand...(WAS: THE ONLY CHOICE)
Originator: news@kittyhawk.ecn.uoknor.edu
Date: Wed, 27 Jan 1993 02:56:00 GMT
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41    
Organization: Alabaster Films


Please be kind, I'm new at this.

  Why doesn't Steve poke his head in over at Silicon Graphics? They
haven't spurned him in any way have they? I'd personally like to
see a NeXT/Pixar/Adobe/Silicon Graphics team. 

But, then again, what I want is not important.

Michael W.
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
Michael Welch, University of Oklahoma, United States, 405.447.8149.
mwelch@aardvark.ucs.uoknor.edu                      mwelch@uokucsvx
"I used to dream and I used to vow...I wouldn't dream of it now"-M.
From: carsten@pizza.fb10.tu-berlin.de (Carsten Schultz)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.advocacy
Subject: Re: A CPU on Every Desk?
Date: 27 Jan 1993 01:48:16 GMT
Organization: ZRZ/TU-Berlin
Distribution: world
Reply-To: carsten@pizza.fb10.tu-berlin.de (Carsten Schultz)
NNTP-Posting-Host: pizza.fb10.tu-berlin.de

In article <1993Jan26.125433.12215@cyantic.com> mark@cyantic.com (Mark T.  
Dornfeld) writes:
> In article <1993Jan25.192117.2503@trilithon.mpk.ca.us>  
henry@trilithon.mpk.ca.us (Henry McGilton) writes:
> >
> >As Steve Abell said, ``Oh, how short people's memories are!''.
> >
> >Unfortunately, I see the disquieting trend back to time sharing,
> >except it's now called ``client server computing'', as if giving
> 
> This trend isn't new.  Novell exists only because it is able to  
centralize
> certain aspects of PC's.  Most businesses do not have the expertise to  
run
> a robust peer-to-peer network like TCP/IP and never will.

I'm not sure of this. I'm sure however, that many people would like to  
have small peer-to-peer networks (i.e. to save the money for a dedicated  
server), but you simply can't do this with DOS.

> ...

Carsten
Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.advocacy
From: swiet@poincare.cs.jhu.edu (Alexander Swietlicki)
Subject: Re: NeXTstep for PowerPC --- THE ONLY CHOICE
Organization: Johns Hopkins Computer Science Department, Baltimore, MD
Date: Mon, 25 Jan 1993 07:00:18 GMT

In article <1jon9vINN91a@phakt.usc.edu> rawyatt@phakt.usc.edu (Robert Alexander Wyatt) writes:
>

>The computer industry is far too fragmented...everyone has a better idea...
>And while companies battle it out over technology...who loses?  The consumer!
>NeXT and Taligent could cooperate on an OS that would benefit us all, 
>regardless of what platform it was running on...

	Cooperation gives us X.  Good ol' American capitalism/competition
gives us NeXTSTEP.  Any questions?  :-)


Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.advocacy
From: rpomeroy@aunext1.amd.com (Ron Pomeroy x(Coop))
Subject: Re: NeXTstep for PowerPC --- THE ONLY CHOICE
Reply-To: rpomeroy@aunext1.amd.com
Organization: Advanced Micro Devices, Inc.; Austin, Texas
Distribution: usa
Date: Tue, 26 Jan 93 00:03:25 GMT

In article <1jpl1pINNjqe@phakt.usc.edu> rawyatt@phakt.usc.edu (Robert Alexander  
Wyatt) writes:
>>
>>Marcos-
>>  I know...I know...It is unlikely that Steve and Apple/IBM would ever make  
up,
>>and why should he?  You are right...Steve was treated unfairly by both 
>>companies...My only point was (using Taligent and NeXT as examples) that the
>>computer industry would benefit and grow greatly from some cooperation
>>instead of so much bickering and insisting that "my system is better then
>>yours..."  And hey, if they can't do that, NeXT should work on a PowerPC
>>port of NeXTstep so that it is available LONG BEFORE Taligent's is...
>>
>>-Rob
>>rawyatt@scf.usc.edu
>>NeXTmail accepted

Ha!  IBM screwed themselves more than they screwed Steve.  Witness the stock  
prices and layoffs (not that NS would have saved 'em - but it wouldn't have  
hurt).

--
Ronald Pomeroy		"The Internet is just a giant petri dish"
Advanced Micro Devices
CAM Applications Group
rpomeroy@aunext1.amd.com (NeXTmail preferred)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.advocacy
Subject: Re: Gosip in 1993(The Public Trial of Appsoft Draw - be on the Jury)
From: feijai@endor.byu.edu (Sean Luke)
Date: 23 Jan 93 14:33:23 -0700
Reply-To: sean@digaudio.byu.edu

In article <C18K3K.25F@appsoft.com>  writes:
>Not to fan the flames, but Draw was modelled after MacDraw where the tools  
>NEVER stay selected.  Millions of Mac users found that program "usable". 

I'm hardly gonna flame here (Draw is a bit buggy, but it *does* show  
promise).  However, I might add that many a neophyte Mac user quickly  
discovers that if one holds down the Command key, the tools stay selected.


--

Sean Luke
Brigham Young University                   MILK:  It Comes From Cows
sean@digaudio.byu.edu  
NeXTmail and nifty Mac stuff welcome
Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.advocacy
From: lemson@ux1.cso.uiuc.edu (David Lemson)
Subject: Re: Sun and DSP: Some people don't get it
Organization: University of Illinois at Urbana
Distribution: na
Date: Tue, 26 Jan 1993 04:38:26 GMT

anderson@sapir.cog.jhu.edu (Stephen Anderson) writes:


>I presume you're referring to co-Xist, eXodus, etc. Well, at least as
>far as co-Xist is concerned, it does indeed work just great - as long
>as you don't have NeXT's "top of the line" system, a ND. If you do,
>you're screwed, because NeXT insists that the only way to get to the
>ND screen is through DPS. Because NeXT is not interested in X, there

We have a user at our site who wouldn't use his NeXT Cube with
Dimension unless he could use X. He uses the latest version of
co-Xist just fine. 
-- 
David Lemson                                                (217) 244-1205
University of Illinois NeXT Campus Consultant / CCSO NeXT Lab System Admin
Internet : lemson@uiuc.edu                UUCP :...!uiucuxc!uiucux1!lemson 
NeXTMail & MIME accepted                           BITNET : LEMSON@UIUCVMD
From: ricardo@pencom.com (Ricardo Parada)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.advocacy
Subject: Re: Press Release: NeXT Profitable in Q4 '92; N. American Sales Up 36%
Date: 26 Jan 93 23:17:24 GMT
Organization: Pencom Software

Peter Kron:
> Hmm...I thought I remember around NeXTWorld 92 Jobs quoted as saying NeXT  
had
> been profitable in 91. The comment was in response to not publishing hard
> numbers...something like--NeXT was profitable, but not wildly profitable.
> Let us get wildly profitable before we give numbers.
> ---------------
> Peter Kron
> Corona Design, Inc.
> Peter_Kron@corona.wa.com


I remember that as "NeXT flirting with profitability," not as NeXT being  
profitable!

--
+ Ricardo J. Parada
Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.advocacy
From: gaia@wam.umd.edu (L. Anathea Brooks)
Subject: Re: Gosip in 1993(The Public Trial of Appsoft Draw - be on the Jury)
Organization: University of Maryland, College Park
Date: Tue, 26 Jan 1993 01:22:33 GMT

In article <1993Jan25.200727.27222@cs.yale.edu> nathan@laplace.biology.yale.edu writes:
>We are having a serious problem with version 1.03.  Has anyone else
>experienced corruption of existing files (created by version 1.02,
>for example) after version 1.03 has "saved" them.  It doesn't seen to
>matter whether they are saved to a new name or the old name.
>
>Try copying a previously created draw file to some other name (for
>safety), loading it with version 1.03, saving it again, closing the
>window, and them loading it again.  
>
>Version 1.03 sure loads faster, but at what cost...?
>
>--
>Nathan Janette	# "As I walk I hear my longing thoughts subsiding.
>Dept MB&B	# Upon your cross I bleed the thoughts that I've been hiding.
>Yale Univ/HHMI	# I'm all used up; there's not much more for me to give.
>New Haven, CT	# Echoes of the life that we all want to live."
>
>nathan@laplace.csb.yale.edu		


O, god, yes. I've deleted version 1.03. It was corrupting everything I 
drew, and I couldn't open anything after saving. I also had problems 
with tiff files. If I incorporated a tiff image and tried then to save 
in Draw format the program would quit, asking if I wanted to try 
to save what was salvagable first. Nothing was. You could export the whole
shebang as a tiff file, sometimes, and that woud work.

I've gone back to 1.02, sighing and choosing tools over and over...
I can get some work done, but it isn't very easy. I have to constantly
go to the tool palette to reselect again and again. Am I doing
something wrong?


Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.advocacy
From: nathan@laplace.biology.yale.edu (Nathan F. Janette)
Subject: Re: Sun and DSP: Some people don't get it
Reply-To: nathan@laplace.biology.yale.edu
Organization: Yale University, Department of Computer Science, New Haven, CT
Distribution: na
Date: Mon, 25 Jan 1993 18:02:03 GMT

In article <1k119pINNldh@emory.mathcs.emory.edu> kim@unix.cc.emory.edu (Kim  
Wallen) writes:

> What is NeXT's response to the changing market.  It used DSP from
> the start (good idea), but still thinks X11 is brain-dead and leaves that
> up to 3rd parties to develop X11 compatability.  So the net effect is
> that NeXT requires users to completely commit to a NeXT environment
> (good from NeXT's viewpoint), whereas Sun's approach doesn't lock
> the user (or the developer) into one vendor.

Since those nasty 3rd party apps work just great, your conclusion is
erroneous.  NeXT requires no such "commitment".

NeXT has supported NIS system management since at least NeXTstep 2.0,
if that's you cup of tea.  The networking looks pretty "standard" to me,
and works fine with all our other unix machines. In fact, NeXTstep 3.0
also features some connectivity with Novell and Appleshare systems. 
That's being locked in to NeXT?  I think not.

> NeXTStep may be the best thing since sliced bread, but it is  a 
> NeXT-only product.  NeWS had many advantages over X11, but the
> market didn't buy it.  Sun changes with the times, but NeXT will
> continue to try to force the user to change to them.  Time will tell,
> but I prefer a company that allows me to integrate my system into
> the larger world and not be dependent just on them.

See above, please, and stop slandering NeXT if you are ignorant of the
technical aspects of your claims. 

--
Nathan Janette	# "As I walk I hear my longing thoughts subsiding.
Dept MB&B	# Upon your cross I bleed the thoughts that I've been hiding.
Yale Univ/HHMI	# I'm all used up; there's not much more for me to give.
New Haven, CT	# Echoes of the life that we all want to live."

nathan@laplace.csb.yale.edu
From: byer@adobe.com (Scott Byer)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.advocacy
Subject: Re: A CPU on Every Desk?
Date: 25 Jan 93 18:12:29 GMT
Reply-To: byer@adobe.com (Scott Byer)
Organization: Adobe Systems Incorporated


As I have been ever-so-gently reminded (I've made this gaff before
:-) there are situations in which X terminals make sense.  These
are situations where what I am familiar with (graphics arts programs
and software development) are not involved.  A situation where
business people and their assistants need only centralized database
access, for example.

Given this, does it still make sense to have a NeXT terminal?  I'm
still not sure, but I don't believe so.  Applications that are
heavily UI-intensive (graphics arts, page layout) are better run
on a machine that handles both the client and the server.  Locations
that have centralized database accesses, where terminals make sense,
are probably going to be running a large non-NeXT server anyway,
and there is little room in such a network for NeXT terminals.

What about where database access is the main use, but page layout
programs need to be used once in a long while?  DPS NX covers that
situation quite nicely using X terminals - an application will use
the Display PostScript extension if present in the server, or it
will talk to a DPS NX agent (running on the client machine or other
central machine) that will convert the calls into something the
server can handle.  NeXT terminals would have no unique advantage.

The X terminal market is extremely price-competitive, with low
margins and high volume.  I'm just not sure that it would be worth
NeXT's time to try and enter into such a marginal business.

--
Scott Byer                             NeXTMail: byer@mv.us.adobe.com
Adobe Systems Incorporated               These are *my* opinions, and  
1585 Charleston Road, P.O. Box 7900        do not necessarily reflect
Mountain View, CA 94039-7900             the opinions of my employer.
---------------------------------------------------------------------
From: Bob_Beckwith@NeXT.COM (Bob Beckwith)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.advocacy
Subject: Re: Anatomy of a Fenestrophobe
Date: 28 Jan 93 19:43:29 GMT
Reply-To: Bob_Beckwith@NeXT.COM (Bob Beckwith)

In article <1993Jan18.032952.18263@monu6.cc.monash.edu.au>  
sloth@yoyo.cc.monash.edu.au (Andrew Bulhak) writes:
> James McIninch (gt1619a@prism.gatech.EDU) wrote:
> :
> : Well, not really. Nice machine, but a wee bit slow, under represented, and
> : illegal to operate in a residential area because it doesn't comply with FCC
> : regulations regarding Class B computing devices.
> 
> Is that so? You can't use a NeXT in a residential area? Ack, pfft!
> I was kinda counting on buying one one day.

NeXT slabs have been FCC class B certified since the ADB keyboards started  
shipping.

Bob_Beckwith@NeXT.COM
Digital Hardware Engineering
NeXT Computer, Inc.
900 Chesapeake Drive
Redwood City, CA 94063 USA
Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.advocacy
From: ph@pencom.com (Patrick Hester)
Subject: Re: Sun and DSP: Some people don't get it
Reply-To: ph@pencom.com
Organization: Pencom Systems Incorporated
Distribution: na
Date: Tue, 26 Jan 1993 20:17:29 GMT

In article <1k1bo5INN3h4@emory.mathcs.emory.edu> kim@unix.cc.emory.edu  
(Kim Wallen) writes:

> So educate me.  Tell me how I run a NeXT application on a remote
> Sun display (or DEC, or IBM, or HP, or any Unix box that runs
> X-based software?).  Am I missing something here, or are you?

How do you run UNIX on a Nintendo Gameboy?

--
Patrick Hester   ph@pencom.com   (212) 513-7777   NeXT Mail OK   =8(\/\)
From: basiji@stein.u.washington.edu (David Basiji)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.advocacy
Subject: Re: Gosip in 1993(The Public Trial of Appsoft Draw - be on the Jury)
Date: 22 Jan 1993 16:03:44 GMT
Organization: University of Washington
NNTP-Posting-Host: stein.u.washington.edu
Keywords: Oh No, Another Wild Flamer

randy@appsoft.com (Randy Adams) writes:

>In article <1993Jan22.012356.12057@wam.umd.edu> gaia@wam.umd.edu (L. Anathea  
>Brooks) writes:
>> The thing was that tools would NOT stay selected, which alone
>> rendered the darn thing an enormous pain to use. It was "unusable"
>> according to my definition (if I can't use an app to do what
>> the app exists purportedly to do, it's not usable).
>> 

>Not to fan the flames, but Draw was modelled after MacDraw where the tools  
>NEVER stay selected.  Millions of Mac users found that program "usable". 


>Randy Adams
> 
>----------------------------------------------------
>Flame me please so I can toast these marshmallows...

Here's a thought...Let's make it a user-selectable preference.
I agree that it's an incredible pain in the ass not to have my
tool stay selected, but that's only my opinion.  This is capitalism;
you'll sell more if fewer people can find major complaints. Go for it.

David Basiji
UW Bioengineering
NeRD #3762

Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.advocacy
From: shiva@vega.Stanford.EDU (Marcos Javier Polanco)
Subject: Re: NeXTstep for PowerPC --- THE ONLY CHOICE
Organization: DSO, Stanford University
Date: Fri, 22 Jan 93 19:21:41 GMT

In article <1jon9vINN91a@phakt.usc.edu> rawyatt@phakt.usc.edu (Robert  
Alexander Wyatt) writes:

> The most interesting concept is that programs will be able to
> borrow objects from one prg. to another. The prg. will have to 
> "announce" it's objects to the OS, other apps (possibly from the same
> or other soft vendors) can look up the object, and if available, it
> will use it.

Are you not describing Distributed Objects?

>NeXT and Taligent could cooperate on an 
>OS that would benefit us all, regardless of what platform it was running
>on...

So Steve should just kiss and make up with Apple (from which he was
was ousted) and IBM (who spurned him). I don't think so.

-Marcos J. Polanco
-shiva@vega.stanford.edu
From: kaya@world.std.com (Kaya Bekiroglu)
Subject: Re: Jan 25 Announcement from Next???
Organization: The World Public Access UNIX, Brookline, MA
Date: Sat, 23 Jan 1993 14:55:04 GMT

In article <C1A8oz.6HF@world.std.com> kaya@world.std.com (Kaya Bekiroglu) writes:
>In article <8fM0z5O00YUo0TwSQW@andrew.cmu.edu> "Joseph C. Lappa" <jl8p+@andrew.cmu.edu> writes:
>>
>>Hi,  
>>
>>   I called up NeXT yesterday asking about what kind of platform I would
>>need for NS486 and I was told that if I wait till the 25th, my answers
>>would be officially answered.  Does this mean that NS486 will be
>>officially released to the public?
>>

Why didn't that last post work, I wonder..

They might be refering to the NS 486 hardware compatibility guide
alluded to in the FAQ.

-- 
Kaya Bekiroglu - "Don't mind him, he's just crazy"
kaya@world.std.com
[If you're looking for something witty and amusing here, then
congratulations, you've just found it]
Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.advocacy
From: terry@squid9.cuc.ab.ca (Terry Wilcox)
Subject: Re: Gosip in 1993(The Public Trial of Appsoft Draw - be on the Jury)
Reply-To: terry@squid9.cuc.ab.ca
Organization: Not Really, Inc.
Date: Thu, 21 Jan 1993 18:51:51 GMT

What happened here?

Yesterday it was 'Draw is crap. Appsoft should be nuked for releasing this  
product. Draw is unuseable.'

Today it's 'Draw has promise. Draw is OK. We use Draw all the time.'

Is it always going to take threats like Randy Adams' to get people to switch  
from whine-and-bitch mode to constructive-criticism mode?

I think Randy's (obvious) anger is justified. This thread has a particularly  
suitable name, but it should have been prefaced with 'malicious'.

Terry Wilcox

-- 
Terry Wilcox		| 'Next to the originator of a good sentence 
terry@squid9.cuc.ab.ca	| is the first quoter of it.'
NeXTmail welcome	|  - RALPH WALDO EMERSON
Newsgroups: comp.sys.next.advocacy