HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: rickc@pogo.wv.tek.com (Rick Clements)
Newsgroups: rec.scouting
Subject: Re: Jesus vs. Cub Scouts?
Date: 6 Oct 92 16:34:14 GMT
Article-I.D.: pogo.13691
Organization: Tektronix, Inc., Wilsonville,  OR.

In article <91256@rphroy.ph.gmr.com> rhaar@albert.cs.gmr.com writes:
>At the Boy Scout level, the religious awards are earned and awarded
>through the scout's religious organization and its leaders, not by the
>troop leaders (unless they overlap).  Isn't the same true at the 
>cub level?

Yes.  Our church offered the award as a class of the first time last year.
We had Cubs from several packs, Girls Scouts and Indian Guides.

>If you read in the Scout Handbook where the scout law and oath are explained,
>you will find that "A scout is reverant" includes respecting the religious
>beliefs of others. And doesn't the mulitude of different religious
>awards lead you to know that BSA does not endorse any specific religion?

The purpose of religon in the BSA is the values that are learned in praticing
their religous beliefs.  [For those who say it's not the only way to teach
those values, you're right.  But, it's a way that works and it's the way the
BSA uses. [Yes, Carl that's my opinion.]]
-- 
Rick Clements (RickC@pogo.WV.TEK.COM)
Newsgroups: rec.scouting
From: mpb@troy.uucp (22161-bunz)
Subject: Can the Knot be carried forward to Boy Scouts(was Jesus vs. Cub Scouts?)
Organization: Bellcore, Livingston, NJ
Date: Mon, 5 Oct 92 13:40:12 GMT

If a boy earns his God and Me emblem (Protastant) and knot, can he continue
to wear the knot when he goes into boy scouts?

I'd assume so, since it is NOT a Cub Scout award, and thus would not
violate the fact that the only patch that can be carried forward is the
Arrow of Light.

But I'd like to find out for sure.

Marc
From: rdc30@nmrdc1.nmrdc.nnmc.navy.mil (Code-03 LCDR Michael E. Dobson)
Newsgroups: rec.scouting
Subject: Re: Can the Knot be carried forward to Boy Scouts(was Jesus vs. Cub Scouts?)
Date: 5 Oct 92 19:48:26 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: Naval Medical Research & Development Command

In article <Bvnnvz.C0u@umassd.edu> pnsf01dw@UMASSD.EDU writes:

[question on wearing of Cub religious knot on Boy Scout uniform deleted]
>
>Yup. As a matter of fact, they also at one point made pins to add-on to the knot, 
>to show which of the religious emblems was earned (some, but not all religions, 
>sponsor awards for both Boy & Cubbing - Roman Catholics have *three* of them).
>
>Also, if I remember correctly, the religious knot is the only knot that a youth
>can wear (mainly because, in all other cases, they are still eligible to wear the
>original patch-version of the award, e.g. Eagle or Arrow of Light)

There are also the knots for the various heroism medals.  Since medals are
normally only worn on "formal" occasions, knots are provided for these as
well.  They are worn whether earned as a Cub or Boy Scout.

Mike Dobson
CM Pack 1071
MC Troop 1071
Olde Mill District, National Capital Area Council, BSA
From: rickc@pogo.wv.tek.com (Rick Clements)
Newsgroups: rec.scouting
Subject: Re: Using Computers in Scouting
Date: 2 Oct 92 16:49:14 GMT
Article-I.D.: pogo.13671
Organization: Tektronix, Inc., Wilsonville,  OR.


In article <BvA98G.ABy@cs.vu.nl> wlieftin@cs.vu.nl (Liefting W) writes:
>mwilson@orl.mmc.com (Mark Wilson) writes:

>>I'm putting together a training session on "Using Computers in Scouting."
>>The focus is on applications. I have already covered the usual uses (databases
>>newsletters, certificates, etc). I was thinking that all you smart, creative,

>about communication, and about the difficulties in it. I don't remember
>exactly, but we had some games that evening, and we closed it up with
>a simple 'chat' between 2 computers, with a cable between it. Lot of
>fun, despite the fact that it was only a simple program.

Last year, we moved the den meeting to my house.  (That's were my computer is.)
The boys wrote messages to Cubs in Canada and England.  They edited the
messages off line.  After the meeting, I uploaded them to the Scouter echo on
Fidonet.  (It was before the Scouting echo was created.)

The biggest problem was it was several weeks before the pack in England wrote
their replies.

There were three Cub Scouts who were very active in the Scouter echo last
year.  They were working on their communications belt loop or pin.  Their
activity helped create the Scouting echo.  It's intended for Scout to Scout
communciations while Scouter is for adult to adult communications.  Scout to
adult communications are happening on both.
-- 
Rick Clements (RickC@pogo.WV.TEK.COM)
Newsgroups: rec.scouting
From: macman@bernina.ethz.ch (Danny Schwendener)
Subject: Re: Pointer to camping newsgroup?
Organization: Peppermint Software Inc.
Distribution: na
Date: Fri, 2 Oct 1992 22:29:21 GMT

jcj@tellabs.com (jcj) writes:

>I apologize for posting to this group but I figured you folks would 
>probably a good source... Is there a nesgroup devoted to backpacking/camping?
>Thanks.

The best guess is rec.backcountry, which is devoted to backpacking,
hiking and (wild) camping.

-- Danny Schwendener         macman@bernina.ethz.ch
   Wolfsmeute Nidau/Glockenhof, Sihlstr. 33, CH-8001 Zurich, Switzerland
   m.h.c. Troop 14, San Francisco
Newsgroups: rec.scouting
From: castaldi@heroes
Subject: Jamboree on the Air
Organization: Glassboro State College
Date: Fri, 25 Sep 1992 10:49:58 GMT

We have a boy in out troop who is into HAM radio.  We have heard that there is 
going to be another JOTA soon.  Since our council is not going to participate,
our troop wants to meet at the boy's house to listen/talk on the radio.
Could someone post the schedule and the frequency's used.
I know nothing about radio's and protocol, so if there is any other info that
we will need please tell me.



thanx
John Castaldi - Troop committee chair BSA troop 55 - Tuckahoe, NJ USA.
From: mwilson@orl.mmc.com (Mark Wilson)
Newsgroups: rec.scouting
Subject: Re: Can the Knot be carried forward to Boy
Date: 5 Oct 92 21:35:31 GMT
Reply-To: mwilson@orl.mmc.com
Organization: Martin Marietta Orlando

In article C0u@umassd.edu, pnsf01dw@UMASSD.EDU (Dennis J. Wilkinson) writes:
>Also, if I remember correctly, the religious knot is the only knot that a youth
>can wear (mainly because, in all other cases, they are still eligible to wear the
>original patch-version of the award, e.g. Eagle or Arrow of Light)

You remember correctly. Also note that adults who have earned the Arrow of
Light and/or Eagle must wear the appropriate knots. Adults are prohibited
from wearing the patch version. (source: Insignia Control Guide)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Mark Wilson                              Martin Marietta E,I & M Group
mwilson@orl.mmc.com                      Mail Point 170
Phone: (407)356-6386                     P.O. Box 555837
Fax:   (407)436-5482                     Orlando, FL, 32855-5837
My opinions are my opinions, Martin Marietta can speak for itself.
Newsgroups: rec.scouting
From: dennett@cyclone.Kodak.COM (Charles R. Dennett)
Subject: Re: Cub Scout Leaders
Organization: Eastman Kodak Co., Rochester, NY
Date: Tue, 6 Oct 92 16:51:27 GMT

In article <63770002@hpcc01.corp.hp.com>, petruno@hpcc01.corp.hp.com (Pat Petruno) writes:
>I'm looking for help.  Does anyone else have problems recruiting leaders
>for dens.  We have plenty of kids.

You're right.  This is a problem.  Not only Den leaders, but we also
ask for help with other activities - Halloween party, Holiday party,
Blue and Gold banquet, etc.  At our September Pack meeting we bring the
parents into another room and explain how the pack works.  We tell them
that we cannot do it alone, and that without their help, we will not
have a program.  We tell them that we have records of what happened in
the past and they can use these as guides.

Also between what BSA publishes, what yout unit has collected over the
years, and what is available from the local council, no one should lack
for ideas.  I have a huge collection of material just from attending
Basic Leader Training, Roundtables, and Pow-Wows.

You might also suggest to existing Den leaders to have parents help at
the den meetings.  Once they see it's not as difficult as they think,
they may be more willing to help.  Of course, you'll always have the
ones who treat scouts as a babysitting service.  My wife just started
as a Den leader and was very apprehensive about it.  At her meeting
last week, her assistant could not make it.  I went as the second
adult.  She did a marvelous job.  Between working on achievements in
the book and all the other information at her disposal, she has no
problem coming up with a plan.

Charles Dennett          | Rochester Distributed Computer Services
Mail Stop 01816          |   Customer Technical Support Services
Eastman Kodak Company    | ---------------------------------------
Rochester, NY 14650-1816 |       Internet: dennett@Kodak.COM

Asst Cubmaster, Pack 48, Greece, NY
From: ad980@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Paul S. Wolf)
Newsgroups: rec.scouting
Subject: Re: Need help from a BSA Troop Leader
Date: 28 Sep 1992 04:13:55 GMT
Organization: Case Western Reserve University, Cleveland, Ohio (USA)
NNTP-Posting-Host: slc10.ins.cwru.edu


Danny:

I'll try to get the badges for you at our local Scout Shop.

However, They may want to know Who, and what they are for.

Merit Badges are normally only sold with an advancement
report showing who earned them, and accompanied by a signed
card from the merit badge counselor.

I can'tr get to the shop until Wednesday at the earliest, so
reply either here, or by e-mail

Paul Wolf,
Manitto Lennowak  - Maker of Men

I used to be a Beaver ...

ad980@cleveland.freenet.edu

Newsgroups: rec.scouting
From: mayne@sync.cs.fsu.edu (William Mayne)
Subject: Re: Jesus vs. Cub Scouts?
Reply-To: mayne@cs.fsu.edu
Organization: Florida State University Computer Science Department
Distribution: na
Date: Mon, 5 Oct 92 13:46:01 GMT

In article <1992Oct5.131105.4629@infonode.ingr.com> stevenst@iaserv.b1.ingr.com (Todd Stevens) writes:
>
>This is apparently quite a hot button for this group!  The last thing I
>want is for you rec.scouters to think I am at all anti-Semitic, anti-Islamic,
>or any other anti's you label me with...

But you go on with your anti-anything-but-Christian stuff.

>...  I guess as long as it is clear to everyone 
>involved that the Scout award given to the boy who has achieved an Islamic/
>Jewish/Hindu/Buddist emblem is to not be interpreted IN ANY WAY as PROMOTING 
>or ENCOURAGING his faith, then I would be comfortable supporting it.  But how 
>can it not promote or encourage?  Isn't that the purpose of an award??

Yes. That is the purpose of the award, and the stated purpose of having
"Reverent" in the Scout Law. I believe that "respects the beliefs of
others" means more than refraining from actively interfering or
persecuting them. Your attitude may be appropriate for a leader of
a Christian youth group, but not for scouting. How would it look for
the leader of a scout group to actively promote and encourage the faith
of Christians (only the right kind of Christians, too, I bet) while
grudgingly tolerating others, considering following the scout law on
this point to be a moral dilemma (your words)?

In this respect Christians like you are much worse than homosexuals, since
only an idiot would think that homosexual scout leaders would try to
discourage boys from being hetersexuals or actively promote homosexuality.
Most believe that sexual orientation cannot be promoted in that way anyway.
But for you trying to make converts and being clear that your actions are
not to be interpreted IN ANY WAY as PROMOTING or ENCOURAGING others to
practice their faith is an admitted religious duty. Thank goddess not
all Christians in scouting are like that.

Bill Mayne

Newsgroups: rec.scouting
From: mayne@phi.cs.fsu.edu (William Mayne)
Subject: Re: Jesus vs. Cub Scouts?
Reply-To: mayne@cs.fsu.edu
Organization: Florida State University Computer Science Department
Date: Mon, 5 Oct 92 20:58:33 GMT

In article <BvnzuG.3IG@apollo.hp.com> johnf@apollo.hp.com (John Francis) writes:
>The BSA's "any religion is good" philosophy is a laudable attempt to
>remove the far nastier "my religion is the one true religion, so I'm
>better than you and don't have to respect you" attitude fostered by
>many churches.

I can attest to this, having grown up in a strict Church of Christ
family and getting my first exposure to pluralism and tolerance
through scouting. In my troop, which was sponsored by a Methodist
church, even Catholics were accepted as equals and their beliefs
respected. Tolerance and respect for others was taught not just
as "The Constitution says you can't do anything about it, so you
might as well live with them," or "You can't change the poor fools'
minds," but as a positive value which I still hold. This is saying a
lot for the BSA position. I must admit I can't go quite as far as
saying that every religion is more good than bad, or that the absense
of formal or dogmatic religion is necessarily bad, though. However
I'm not sure the BSA, and certainly not the basic values of scouting
really mean that, either.

See, I don't always bash the BSA in rec.scouting.

Bill Mayne
From: IZARD@ubvm.cc.buffalo.edu (Don Izard)
Newsgroups: rec.scouting
Subject: Re: Scout names for troop leaders
Date: 28 Sep 92 19:25:02 GMT
Organization: University at Buffalo


 
   I have observed the use of the TERM "SCOUTER" used to solve the
   MR/MS/MISS/MRS problems with addresssing OLDER scouts.  It works
   even if you don't "remember" the names.  Otherwise you may address
   the older scout, as SCOUTER SUE, or Scouter Bob, or just SCOUTER.
   The older scouters, can then address the younger scouts as SCOUT.
   Scout Paul, or just scout.  It WORKS!
                                        (in my opinion)  Don Izard
In article <1992Sep22.233553.3632@news.Hawaii.Edu>
dlm@galileo.ifa.hawaii.edu (Deborah Maraziti (aka Spacee)) writes:
 
>
>Aloha--
>	Scout leaders:  how does your troop adress you?  My troop calls me
>(their leader) by my first name.  Are you comfortable with this or
>would you rather they address you by "Mr.", "Ms.", or "Mrs." or by
>some other nickname?  Sometimes I feel that my troop respects me as
>an adult-in-charge, yet at other times, I feel as if they aren't
>respecting my cautions or instructions.  Could this be related to
>the way they address me (ie they don't see me as an authority figure
>because most other authority figures are addressed by a title)?  At
>first, I introduced myself to them by my first name because I wanted
>to foster friendships and avoid some of the "scary authority" syndrome.
>Now I feel like it's gone too far the other direction.  Any comments
>or suggestions?
>
>--
>~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>Spacee                            ~     I'm conducting a search for a
>dlm@galileo.ifa.hawaii.edu        ~     planet made of chocolate.
>(astronomer in lace)              ~     Funding is hard to come by...
From: mwilson@orl.mmc.com (Mark Wilson)
Newsgroups: rec.scouting
Subject: Re: Jesus vs. Cub Scouts?
Date: 5 Oct 92 15:59:34 GMT
Reply-To: mwilson@orl.mmc.com
Organization: Martin Marietta Orlando

In article 24294@col.hp.com, kary@col.hp.com (Dan Kary) writes:
>Fortunately for you and for everyone else, this is a false dilema.  Religious
>awards are given by the religious organization in question, not by the BSA.
>A Religious Emblem is not a Scouting Award, it is an award conferred on a
>scout by his religious leader.  (SEE: Boy Scout Handbook, pg. 624)

Your unit should also recognize the achievement at a Pack Meeting or
Court of Honor. Earning a religious award is a significant undertaking
and should be recognized in the unit. Such recognition may also encourage
others to do the same.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Mark Wilson                              Martin Marietta E,I & M Group
mwilson@orl.mmc.com                      Mail Point 170
Phone: (407)356-6386                     P.O. Box 555837
Fax:   (407)436-5482                     Orlando, FL, 32855-5837
My opinions are my opinions, Martin Marietta can speak for itself.
From: rickc@pogo.wv.tek.com (Rick Clements)
Newsgroups: rec.scouting
Subject: New Den leader (was Jesus vs. Scouts Final Chapter!)
Date: 7 Oct 92 00:08:47 GMT
Organization: Tektronix, Inc., Wilsonville,  OR.


In article <1992Oct6.131650.6380@infonode.ingr.com> stevenst@iaserv.b1.ingr.com (Todd Stevens) writes:
>BTW, I have now been "promoted" to den leader as everyone else has backed
>out!  HELP!!!  We haven't had one den meeting yet.  I am going to Basic
>Leader Training this weekend but will probably want to have at least an
>hour and a half long den meeting before then.

Basic training is important.  Round Tables are a good source of information
too.  We had a den leader's split.  The leader of the split gave us lots of
good ideas that worked for her.  Does your pack have a den leader coach?
If not, talk to one of the other den leaders.

Do you have an asst.?  BSA requires two leaders at all times.

>  I don't have any activities 
>information yet and would appreciate any ideas for a first bear den meeting 
>activity.  

Starting a new den there will be a lot of administation that needs to be done.
	Choose a den name
	Make a den flag
	Have the den decide on a set of rules (let the boys help & the post
		them)

It's a good idea to have a game and/or craft at each meeting?

I think Oct's theme is fire saftey.  (The Webelos don't use those themes, so
I'm not sure.)  You can schedule a trip to the local fire station.  (You will
need a trip permit unless the parents drop the scouts off at the station.)
-- 
Rick Clements (RickC@pogo.WV.TEK.COM)
Newsgroups: rec.scouting
From: sorcerer@leland.stanford.edu (Erik Peterson)
Subject: Citizenship for Scoutmasters
Organization: DSO, Stanford University
Date: Wed, 7 Oct 92 02:46:12 GMT

Recently the old scoutmaster for my old troop passed away, and a seach was done  
for a new scoutmaster to lead the troop.  One very, very qualified Assistant  
Scoutmaster was found who had lots of experience in scouting and enthusiasm but  
he was turned down by our local group because he was not an American citizen.  
Instead the troop now has a person with little experience, seems to care more  
about the American Legion than scouts, and because of him the troop is down to  
15 kids (compared to about 60 when I was there 4 years ago) and he disbanned  
our local chapter of the Order of the Arrow.

When I heard this while I was home this summer I thought it was ridicoulous.   
Scouting is scouting no matter what country it is in.

Does such a regulation exist?
If so why?

Erik Peterson
Newsgroups: rec.scouting
From: stevenst@iaserv.b1.ingr.com (Todd Stevens)
Subject: Jesus vs. Scouts Final Chapter!
Organization: ingr
Date: Tue, 6 Oct 1992 13:16:50 GMT

I have appreciated all comments in this thread and feel that I can now
reconcile with my Lord on this one.  I feel since Scouting has so much to
offer my son and his fellow cub scouts in every other aspect that I must 
maintain a tolerance in the area of religious awards.  I can see that the 
BSA in a very real sense does not promote any particular faith in any of its
activities.  I appreciate its emphasis on spiritual growth and to really
study and learn about one's religion.  I must allow my Lord to work
through this effort and trust that all such religious undertakings will 
eventually lead to a better understanding of Lord Jesus.  As a Christian, I
must actively defend my Lord against any and all attacks upon his 
sovereignty, and to teach those who are ready to hear his message.  But 
these activities must be conducted entirely outside of any "scout" setting
so as not to be construed as any teaching or indoctrination of the BSA.

How does that sound, guys?

BTW, I have now been "promoted" to den leader as everyone else has backed
out!  HELP!!!  We haven't had one den meeting yet.  I am going to Basic
Leader Training this weekend but will probably want to have at least an
hour and a half long den meeting before then.  I don't have any activities 
information yet and would appreciate any ideas for a first bear den meeting 
activity.  I know some of the boys need to work on their bobcat badge and 
our den has been selected to perform a song at the next pack meeting.  I am 
supposed to get the list of boys in my den very soon (I think there are 7 or
8 boys) and I plan to ask that person a lot of these questions then.  But 
again, HHEELLPP!!!

Yours in Scouting,

Todd Stevens
stevenst@iaserv.b1.ingr.com

Newsgroups: rec.scouting
From: edelheit@smiley.mitre.org (Jeff Edelheit)
Subject: Re: Cub Scout Leaders
Organization: The MITRE Corporation, McLean, VA
Date: Tue, 6 Oct 1992 17:07:49 GMT

In article <63770002@hpcc01.corp.hp.com> petruno@hpcc01.corp.hp.com (Pat Petruno) writes:
>I'm looking for help.  Does anyone else have problems recruiting leaders
>for dens.  We have plenty of kids.
>
>Pat Petruno
>
My Pack hasn't had much of a problem because we take a firm stand.
For example, let me relate my experiences at Back To Scouting Night.
I had each of the existing dens register their returning boys.  I had
the Tiger Cub coordinator take the tiger cub parents off to the side
and let her explain the program and register those kids.  I then asked
that the parents of second graders sit over in one part of the room
and the parents of transfers or kids in 3rd -  5th grades sit in a
different part of the room.  (We were using the school cafeteria).

I had the committee chair handle the registration of 3rd - 5th graders
and I went over to the 2nd grade tables.  I explained that scouting is
made up of volunteers and if you don't volunteer, then there is no
room for your kid.  I also stressed that the Pack pays the leader's
fees and training costs.  I made sure that the parents know that we
have training available and that they should do it.  I also said that
we have den coachs to help.  Lastly, I said that it isn't that hard or
scary and that the dens should try to only have 6 kids in each.  I
then informed the parents that I had to give the same speech to the
next table, that they should discuss the leadership issue among
themselves , identify at least 2 leaders, and I would return in a few minutes.

I got leaders for all 3 dens (one den wanted 4 of the 6 parents to be
leaders!!).  I did the same with a Bear den.

What I did sounds rather crass and rude.  However, you have to take a
firm position on this.  Lastly, remember that you must mix the hard
message (no leader, no den) with the positive msg. (lots of training
and fun).

Jeff Edelheit		email:  edelheit@mitre.org
Cubmaster and Webelos Den Leader
Pack 159
Herndon, VA.
From: rjt@softin.lonestar.org (Richard Threlkeld)
Newsgroups: rec.scouting
Subject: Re: Fund Raisers
Date: Thu, 01 Oct 92 13:43:14 CST
Organization: Software Innovation, Arlington, Tx

mwilson@orl.mmc.com (Mark Wilson) writes:

> In article 21107@oracorp.com, kathy@oracorp.com (Kathy S. Knight) writes:
> >PS  I am the leader of a newly bridged Cadette troop and would
> >welcome any ideas for activities and fund raisers.
> 
> This might be a good time to trot out my rules for a good fundraiser. 
> These rules have been developed over the last five years of running a 
> Cub Scout Pack.
> 
> 1. Use a single point of sale product. You give me some money, I give you
> a product. This approach gives you a great deal of flexibility on how you
> sell. A cute kid in uniform, or other recognizable organizational affiliation
> can sell anything to a passerby. Many large stores are willing to let you sel

BSA must approve any sales of items by scouts in uniform.  They approve 
projects in which they profit (Scout Show, Trail's End Popcorn, etc 
here).  They may approve your use, but they are very careful about 
seeming to provide the goodwill of the Scouting organization to a 
commercial product.  They also want to know about any fund raiser which 
approaches persons outside your unit.  This is to ration Scouting's dips 
into the public well for funding.
Newsgroups: rec.scouting