HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: bill@bill.ab.umd.edu (Bill Bame)
Newsgroups: vmsnet.internals,comp.os.vms
Subject: Reading ERRLOG.SYS without disturbing ERRFMT
Date: 9 Nov 92 18:19:50 GMT
Reply-To: bill@office.ab.umd.edu
Organization: M.I.E.M.S.S.

I would like to be able to read ERRLOG.SYS without risking the creation of a
new version of the file by ERRFMT (ERRFMT creates a new version if there is
a conflict when it tries to open/read/write the file).  I guess I could set
the priority of the ERRFMT process to 0 before I open the file, but I was
hoping for a cleaner method.  I've played around with various FAB$B_FAC and
FAB$B_SHR combinations without much luck.  I don't have fiche available to me,
so I can't peek at how ANALYZE/ERROR does it - any ideas?
--
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
William P. Bame                    | sneakernet: William P. Bame
internet: bill@bill.ab.umd.edu     |             M.I.E.M.S.S.
          bbame@achi1.ab.umd.edu   |             22 South Greene Street
AT&T    : [Work] (410) 328-3062    |             Baltimore, MD 21201
CIS     : 71620,425                |             Room: T1R55
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Newsgroups: vmsnet.internals
From: mats@efd.lth.se (Mats Akerberg)
Subject: Re: DECUS gathering
Organization: EFD, Lund Inst. of Technology, Lund, Sweden
Date: 09 Nov 92 16:40:27 GMT

In article <721315219.572743.MILLER@TGV.COM> <MILLER@TGV.COM> writes:
>>how will members of the group be identifiable?
> I will be wearing my "I'm Ehud Gavron.  Who the hell are you?" T-shirt.

I wish you would wear your suit, I'd love to se you in a suit :-)

--
  Mats Akerberg, System Manager (mats@efd.lth.se),(MATS@SELDC52) on Earn/Bitnet
  Lund Institute of Technology ,School of Electrical Engineering and  
  Computer Sciences. Snail: Box 118  S-221 00 Lund Sweden
  Phone: + 46 46-109847 FAX: + 46 46-104013
From: "Brian J. Schenkenberger, VAXman"
Newsgroups: vmsnet.internals
Subject: Re: AXP
Date: Tue, 10 Nov 1992 13:58 EDT
Organization: Macro32<==>Vmsnet.Internals Gateway
X-Gateway-Source-Info: Mailing List

>[I find this kind of comment from somebody in the military to be amusing...]

Once and for all...

The origins of my E-mail address and my employer are two separate entities...
The affiliation with the government is purely of a consulting nature!!!

BTW-
You can stop holding your noses now.  I have commercial affiliations
too, with both large and small firms.  I've seen just as much (if not
more) useless waste and expenditure outside of the government!!!  For
instance... a previous employer -- not to cast stones, let's just say
they were _G_ood _E_nough!

BJS-
From: carl@SOL1.GPS.CALTECH.EDU (Carl J Lydick)
Newsgroups: vmsnet.internals
Subject: re: idle terminal...
Date: 5 Nov 1992 10:33:15 GMT
Organization: HST Wide Field/Planetary Camera
Distribution: world
Reply-To: carl@SOL1.GPS.CALTECH.EDU
NNTP-Posting-Host: sol1.gps.caltech.edu

In article <8980927@MVB.SAIC.COM>, "Bob George" <BOB@aeneas.ims.disa.mil> writes:
>Subj:   Re: stopping idle process terminators
>
>#Some idle-process killers issue a $FORCEX to the process (to force image
>#exit) and then issue $DELPRC (for example, Matt Madison's excellent program
>#WATCHER).
>
>The $FORCEX just terminates any image that you have running and returns
>control to DCL.  That wouldn't have any effect on the nodelete bit, would
>it?  Then the $DELPRC does check the nodelete bit (and other things) before
>it trys to kill the process.

What good does it to to prevent the idle-process killer from deleting your
process if it manages to prevent the process from doing anything in the first
place?  For most purposes, forcing an image exit is just as bad as deleting the
process (there are, of course some exceptions;  for example, if the process has
a device allocated and you're more interested in making sure nobody else
accesses that device than you are in having the process do any work).

>#I don't believe $FORCEX or $EXIT pay any attention to the nodelete
>#flag (because an image exit isn't a process deletion).
>
>The $FORCEX or $EXIT wouldn't kill the process either - just knock you
>down to the CLI.

Which is, most likely, what you're really trying to avoid.

>#Doesn't the nosuspend bit just prevent the process from being placed into
>#SUSP state?
>
>Yes, but operations at one of the sites that I support has a nasty habit of
>stopping users' processes when they are running backups.

And you'd be willing to have them simply force the process to exit from BACKUP? 
Sounds a bit strange to me.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Carl J Lydick | INTERnet: CARL@SOL1.GPS.CALTECH.EDU | NSI/HEPnet: SOL1::CARL

Disclaimer:  Hey, I understand VAXen and VMS.  That's what I get paid for.  My
understanding of astronomy is purely at the amateur level (or below).  So
unless what I'm saying is directly related to VAX/VMS, don't hold me or my
organization responsible for it.  If it IS related to VAX/VMS, you can try to
hold me responsible for it, but my organization had nothing to do with it.
Newsgroups: vmsnet.internals
Subject: RE: Need help clearing FH2$V_ALM_AIP
From: jeh@cmkrnl.com
Date: 6 Nov 92 11:06:36 PST
 altech.edu> <5NOV199210212070@carat.arizona.edu> <1992Nov5.113808.18140@infocomm.com>
Distribution: world,local
Organization: Kernel Mode Consulting, San Diego, CA

In article <5NOV199210212070@carat.arizona.edu>, jms@carat.arizona.edu (Ducks? Why do they have ducks?) writes:
> PPS: DOES ANYONE OUT THERE READ THAT STUFF I STICK IN DIGITAL REVIEW?
> Could I have a little feedback, fer crissake?  Jeez, it's like writing
> into a black hole.

Sorry -- I am too busy drafting a response to someone else's column.

Don't feel jealous -- the columnist in question is not going to like my
response.

	--- Jamie Hanrahan, Kernel Mode Consulting, San Diego CA
drivers, internals, networks, applications, and training for VMS and Windows-NT
uucp 'g' protocol guru and release coordinator, VMSnet (DECUS uucp) W.G., and
Chair, VMS Programming and Internals Working Group, U.S. DECUS VAX Systems SIG
Internet:  jeh@cmkrnl.com, hanrahan@eisner.decus.org, or jeh@crash.cts.com
Uucp:  ...{crash,eisner,uunet}!cmkrnl!jeh
From: dave@chmeds.ac.nz
Newsgroups: vmsnet.internals
Subject: Tape driver probs.
Date: 12 Nov 92 12:32:03 +1200

TAPE DRIVER PROBS

We have a non DEC tape drive on our unibus vax. It used to work well (VMS 4.x)
but has fallen into disuse.

We wish to start reusing it VMS 5.4 
but it does funny things when being written to.

The unit inits and mounts OK but when a file is copied to the drive it
reads forward until it falls off the feed spool.

The test programme in I/O users part I pages 6.30-6.33 falls over at 
QIO_W - IO$_CREATE etc at the top of 6.31.

If FIB$M_REWIND is used as appropriate the programme runs until the QIO
read reverse command. This fails with a SS$_FORMAT (the drive cannot read
backwards).

Question:  Is SS$_FORMAT the correct response for an invalid read command?
If not, what is?.

Does this questionable response explain the unwinding of the feed spool?

Dave   :-(
From: GAVRON@IT.SUNQUEST.COM (Ehud Gavron 602-570-2546)
Newsgroups: vmsnet.internals
Subject: No IF DF code for Alpha!!!  <--- DEC Blows it again
Date: 9 Nov 92 21:23:04 GMT
Organization: Macro32<==>Vmsnet.Internals Gateway
X-Gateway-Source-Info: Mailing List

Date sent:  9-NOV-1992 14:17:45


        Yes, DEC's own documentation says:
MACRO

  /MIGRATION

    Alpha_Instruction_Built-ins
.
.
         It is recommended that you place any built-in within an
         ".IF DF,EVAX"  conditional code block unless the module is Alpha-
         specific.
.
.
.

        HOWEVER, THIS ISN'T TRUE!  In fact, NOTHING is defined on the
        MACRO-32 compiler on Alpha.

        DEC's answer: "Oh, just assemble with SYS$LIBRARY:ARCH_DEFS+your code".
        My response: "Oh look, there IS NO ARCH_DEF ON THE VAXES!!!"

        Dear DEC, please cease the cerebro-rectal interface and put
        builtins into the AMAC assembler, JUST LIKE YOUR #@&$*(
        documentation and my #*&($ expectations want it to be.

        Ehud

--
Ehud Gavron        (EG76)
gavron@vesta.sunquest.com                                       This was sent
"The world bores you when you're cool."                         from an Alpha
Newsgroups: vmsnet.internals
Subject: re: re:... idle terminals
From: "Bob George" <BOB@aeneas.ims.disa.mil>
Date: 9 Nov 92 12:13:00 EST
Organization: Macro32<==>Vmsnet.Internals Gateway
X-Gateway-Source-Info: Mailing List

Subj:   re: idle terminal...


#        A week ago I posted code to periodically increment the process
#        I/O count so that idle job killers wouldn't kill it.

Thanks, I saved it, but haven't had a chance to look at it closely yet.

#        Hunter et all offered clever ditties to set the delete pending
#        and exit pending flags, preventing those from being applied.
#
#        HOWEVER, all those require explicit code be run by the user
#        before termination can occur.  In the event that the user was
#        disconnected (terminal, non vtas) or killed (batch job termination)
#        then that process is STUCK until $cmkrnl intervention.

Yep, that is a problem - it stays in a COM state (only at priority 0), but
that can add a bit of needless time when looking at the overall system
performance, response, etc.


#        Lastly on the issue of NODELETE and FORCEX...  there is nothing
#        A week ago I posted code to periodically increment the process
#        I/O count so that idle job killers wouldn't kill it.
#        stopping anyone from creating an exit handler which unwinds past
#        the $exit and the $forcex.  It takes a bit of code out of $unwind
#        plus some stack fixup (and you have to dismiss the ast frame) but
#        it works.  If it weren't Sunquest proprietary I'd post it.

To say nothing of someone else writing into your PSL and clearing those
several bits (although you could run into problems if something else
needed them set, but not too likely since most routines that want them
set ignore them if they are already set).


#        I'm still looking for a better solution than mine, that requires
#        NO user intervention at logout... however until I find one, a
#        repeating tqe in p1 space works for me :)

Here's a stupid comment about just being killed by an idle terminal
monitor.  Aren't there a few flavors of them that are on the internet
along with a commercial one or two that allows you to configure them
to ignore certain usernames/terminals/...  Get one of them???


#MONDAY 8:00PM LOBBY OF THE HILTON - MILLER IN EHUD SHIRT - EHUD IN CMU SHIRT

What!!!  No Bruce Shirt???  How much for the EHUD shirts - send the shirt
and the check to:
                                                               :\/\/\/:
                                    bob                        :______:
                                                               : (o)(o)
+----------------------------------------------------------+  c:   ___:
| Bob George     Internet : BOB@AENEAS.IMS.DISA.MIL        |   :     _)
| Disclaimer:    Opinions expressed are mine and mine only.|   : ,___:
+----------------------------------------------------------+   : __ /
                                                               /____\
From: Hunter Goatley <goathunter@WKUVX1.BITNET>
Newsgroups: vmsnet.internals
Subject: RE: Assembler wishlist
Date: Wed, 04 Nov 1992 19:37:22 CST
Organization: Macro32<==>Vmsnet.Internals Gateway
X-Gateway-Source-Info: Mailing List

brydon@dsn.sinet.slb.com writes:
>
>>>        .dsect  x
>>>flink:  .long
>>>blink:  .long
>>>data:   .blkl   n
>>>bits:   .byte
>>>...
[...]
>For the second case of "BLINK = 4", of course you can do this.  But it is the
>programmer's responsibility to know that a longword is 4 bytes, and to get all
>the offsets correct (trivial for this example, but a bit more hairy in a large
>program).  This is largely a  clerical task that can and should be taken care
>of by the assembler.  Also, a data type change of one variable in the middle
>of your struct/dsect causes all following offset values to change.  This
>currently has to be done manually, should be done by the assembler.
>
Not if you use the $DEFINI macro, found in SYS$LIBRARY:STARLET.MLB.
Of course, $DEFINI does the .PSEC $ABS$ and the resetting of ".".  But
it does it all transparently to the programmer (this is from my
LOGIN.MAR):

;
;  Define symbolic offsets for the 7 word array returned by the system service
;  $NUMTIM.
;
        $DEFINI TIM                             ; Structure for $NUMTIM buffer
$DEF    TIM_W_YEAR      .BLKW   1               ; 7 words:      Year
$DEF    TIM_W_MONTH     .BLKW   1               ; ....          Month
$DEF    TIM_W_DAY       .BLKW   1               ; ....          Day
$DEF    TIM_W_HOUR      .BLKW   1               ; ....          Hour
$DEF    TIM_W_MINUTE    .BLKW   1               ; ....          Minute
$DEF    TIM_W_SECOND    .BLKW   1               ; ....          Second
$DEF    TIM_W_HUNDRED   .BLKW   1               ; ....          Hundredths
        $DEFEND TIM

Any of the .BLKx storage directives can be used; changing one in the
middle automatically causes the others to change.

Unless I'm missing something, this should do what you want.

Hunter
------
Hunter Goatley, VMS Systems Programmer, Western Kentucky University
goathunter@WKUVX1.BITNET, 502-745-5251
Newsgroups: vmsnet.internals
From: critz@star.enet.dec.com (Richard Critz)
Subject: Re: What does AXP stand for ...
Reply-To: critz@star.enet.dec.com (Richard Critz)
Organization: Digital Equipment Corporation, Nashua, NH
Date: Thu, 5 Nov 1992 20:26:49 GMT


In article <CD91145A389FE3041F@MAX.U.WASHINGTON.EDU>, DEREK@U.WASHINGTON.EDU writes:
|>>What does AXP stand for in `OpenVMS AXP (Alpha)'?
|>>
|>>        ----------------------------------------------------------------
|>>        Tarif Halabi, Crowntek Business Centers, Toronto, Ontario
|>>        xbrix.uucp!thalabi or thalabi@xbrix.uucp
|>>        psi%302043800069::thalabi
|>>        +1 416 507-5070
|>
|>The story I heard from our local account manager is:
|>
|>        "It doesn't stand for anything.  That's why it was used!"
|>
|>Something about problems with trademarks.  Anyway, I believe he said that
|>that there is going to be some sort of a contest to "name the Alpha", and
|>come up with a meaning for AXP.
|>
	...
|>STARLET....   Anyway, this all leads me to think that AXP *DOES* have some
|>meaning -- at least, unofficially.

In this case, your account manager is exactly correct.  It really *DOESN'T*
stand for anything (other than as another indictment of the fact that the
world has too many lawyers! :-)

--
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Richard Critz					      critz@star.enet.dec.com
      -- I speak only for myself; I make no commitments for Digital. --
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: <MILLER@TGV.COM>
Newsgroups: vmsnet.internals
Subject: Re:  DECUS gathering
Date: Mon, 9 Nov 1992 05:20:19 -0800 (PST)
Organization: Macro32<==>Vmsnet.Internals Gateway
X-Gateway-Source-Info: Mailing List


>how will members of the group be identifiable?

I will be wearing my "I'm Ehud Gavron.  Who the hell are you?" T-shirt.

-bruce
From: DWING@UH01.Colorado.EDU (would rather be skiing ...)
Newsgroups: vmsnet.internals
Subject: Re: idle terminal...
Date: 4 Nov 92 21:20:19 GMT
Organization: Macro32<==>Vmsnet.Internals Gateway
X-Gateway-Source-Info: Mailing List

Bob George, BOB@AENEAS.IMS.DISA.MIL, wrote, in part:

>The $FORCEX just terminates any image that you have running and returns
>control to DCL.  That wouldn't have any effect on the nodelete bit, would
>it?  Then the $DELPRC does check the nodelete bit (and other things) before
>it trys to kill the process.

You are right that your process wouldn't be deleted, but if someone does a
$FORCEX to your process, whatever image you were running (lets say, an
editor) will go through its regular run-down.  If the run-down doesn't include
saving the edited file, you (could have) lost everything.  I say 'could have'
because it may have a .JOU file or some sort of auto-save function that will
allow you to recover.

>Yes, but operations at one of the sites that I support has a nasty habit of
>stopping users' processes when they are running backups.  I set the nodelete
>bit on that system and then they suspended my process.  Does wonders when
>you're a large FTP or DECnet transfer or stepping through a large program
>that someone's having trouble with.

Sweet (add appropriate sarcastic inflections towards the operators at the
site).

-Dan Wing, dwing@uh01.colorado.edu or wing_d@ucolmcc.bitnet (DGW11)
 Systems Programmer, University Hospital, Denver
From: GOODMAN@ACCUWX.COM (Paladin)
Newsgroups: vmsnet.internals
Subject: Re: Assembler wishlist
Date: 5 Nov 92 12:39:02 GMT
Organization: Macro32<==>Vmsnet.Internals Gateway
X-Gateway-Source-Info: Mailing List

brydon@dsn.sinet.slb.com writes:
>
>>>        .dsect  x
>>>flink:  .long
>>>blink:  .long
>>>data:   .blkl   n
>>>bits:   .byte
>>>...
>>
>>I have seen this already done -- with a .PSECT $$ABS$$ declaration.  Notice
>>that this PSECT is based at address '00000000', and so basically generates
>>offsets.  Also, you can use the "BLINK = 4" construct to accomplish this.
>
>Yes, but if you do the first trick with the $$ABS$$ stuff, aren't you really
>generating 'real' storage allocation?  Also, this restricts you to one DSECT,
>unless you do assembler directives like '.=0' repeatedly.
>...
>

I assume ".PSECT $$ABS$$" is a pre-defined psect that has the
"ABS" (absolute addressing) attribute set.  You could define a
unique psect with this "ABS" attribute set for every structure
you want to symbolically define this way.

        .PSECT  STRUCTURE1      ABS, NORD, NOWRT, NOEXE, LONG
STR1.K_ELEMENTS=10
STR1.L_FLINK:   .BLKL
STR1.L_BLINK:   .BLKL
STR1.L_DATA:    .BLKL STR1.K_ELEMENTS
STR1.B_BITS:    .BLKB
STR1.K_SIZE=.

        .PSECT  STRUCTURE2      ABS, NORD, NOWRT, NOEXE, LONG
STR2.K_ELEMENTS=20
STR2.B_TYPE:    .BLKB
STR2.B_COUNT:   .BLKB
STR2.B_BITS:    .BLKB
        .ALIGN  LONG
STR2.L_DATA:    .BLKL STR2.K_ELEMENTS
STR2.K_SIZE=.

        .PSECT  CODE    PIC, SHR, EXE, NOWRT, LONG
        .ENTRY  SUB,^M<R2,R3>
        MOVL    4(AP),R0                ;structure 1 is first argument
        MOVL    8(AP),R1                ;structure 2 is second argument
        MOVL    STR1.L_FLINK(R0), R2    ;Get foward link of structure 1
        MOVB    STR2.B_BITS(R1), R3     ;Get flag bits of structure 2
;       ...
        .END

The structures show up in the macro listing psect synopsis this way:
PSECT name                      Allocation          PSECT No.  Attributes
----------                      ----------          ---------  ----------
STRUCTURE1                      00000031  (   49.)  01 (  1.)  NOPIC ... ABS
STRUCTURE2                      00000054  (   84.)  02 (  2.)  NOPIC ... ABS
The allocation column shows you the size of the structures, but no 'real'
storage is allocated.  See the description of the "ABS" psect attribute
in the Vax Macro manual to confirm this.
From: goathunter@WKUVX1.BITNET (Hunter Goatley)
Newsgroups: vmsnet.internals
Subject: RE: re: idle terminal...
Date: 5 Nov 92 13:18:55 GMT
Organization: Macro32<==>Vmsnet.Internals Gateway
X-Gateway-Source-Info: Mailing List

don@zl2tnm.gen.nz writes:
>
>In article <009631D4.196251A0.31400@WKUVX1.BITNET>, Hunter Goatley
> <goathunter@WKUVX1.BITNET> writes:
>> There is a way to avoid these too.  I had to do this once for software
>> that I didn't want $DELPRCed, $FORCEXed, *or* suspended.  Set the
>> following bits in the PCB:
>>
>>         PCB$V_SUSPEN            !Suspend is pending
>>         PCB$V_DELPEN            !Delete is pending
>>         PCB$V_FORCPEN           !FORCEX is pending
>
>Neat.
>
>        =TOYVAX=> stop "_TWA6:"
>        =TOYVAX=> set proc "_TWA6:"/susp
>        %SET-E-NOTSET, process _TWA6:, PID=00001216, not suspended
>        -SYSTEM-W-NONEXPR, nonexistent process
>        =TOYVAX=> sh proc "_TWA6:"
>        %SYSTEM-F-SUSPENDED, process is suspended
>
>That should confuse 'em.
>
8-)  Yeah, I forgot to mention that $DELPRC will return successfully
when DELPEN is set.  That's what made this fun---with a security
package I once worked on, people would try to STOP/ID the detached
process and would get frustrated wondering why it didn't go away....

Hunter
------
Hunter Goatley, VMS Systems Programmer, Western Kentucky University
goathunter@WKUVX1.BITNET, 502-745-5251
Newsgroups: vmsnet.internals
Subject: RE: Need help clearing FH2$V_ALM_AIP
From: jms@carat.arizona.edu (Ducks? Why do they have ducks?)
Date: 5 Nov 1992 10:21 MST  
Reply-To: jms@Arizona.EDU
Distribution: world,local
Organization: University of Arizona MIS Department - Mosaic Group
X-Lunar-Date: 1 day, 4 hours, 50 minutes since the first quarter of the moon
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.50A   

In article <1d97ffINNktq@gap.caltech.edu>, carl@SOL1.GPS.CALTECH.EDU writes...
>In article <1992Nov3.234715.2094@zl2tnm.gen.nz>, don@zl2tnm.gen.nz writes:
>>(Hey, I've fixed broken file headers on the fly on live production system
>>disks.... 8-) 
>So have I.  Using only DCL.
So have I.  Connected using a 300 bps modem at 1:30 in the morning over a
multi-hop satellite link with 2.85 second delay.  Because I was hanging 
off a telephone pole (they refused to bring phone jacks into my office),
I had both hands busy and had to use my tongue to press the keys on a 
modified teletype model 33, and because the ribbon was worn through, I
had to read what it typed by manually interpreting the punches in the 
paper tape.  Except that there was no paper tape because we were so cheap,
so I had to put my left earlobe in the paper tape punch to feel the
output of the terminal. 

I mean, things were really tough. 

Joel M Snyder, 1103 E Spring Street, Tucson, AZ, 85719 
Phone: 602.882.4094 (voice) .4095 (FAX) .4093 (data)
BITNET: jms@Arizona  Internet: jms@arizona.edu  SPAN: 47541::telcom::jms

PS: Did I say that it was during a blizzard?

PPS: DOES ANYONE OUT THERE READ THAT STUFF I STICK IN DIGITAL REVIEW? 
Could I have a little feedback, fer crissake?  Jeez, it's like writing
into a black hole.
Newsgroups: vmsnet.internals
Subject: Re: re:... idle terminals
From: Stafford@Vax2.Winona.MSUS.EDU (John Stafford)
Date: 10 Nov 92 11:50:27 -0600
Followup-To: vmsnet.internals
Distribution: world
Organization: MSUS

In article <9055342@MVB.SAIC.COM>, "Bob George" <BOB@aeneas.ims.disa.mil>
wrote:
> Here's a stupid comment about just being killed by an idle terminal
> monitor.  Aren't there a few flavors of them that are on the internet
> along with a commercial one or two that allows you to configure them
> to ignore certain usernames/terminals/...  Get one of them???

If FORCEX is not an issue, I cannot see why this is such a complex
problem.  We have an elementary DCL procedure servering as a good
idle process killer.  It can make execeptions based upon username,
group, terminal, job and kill from the top down, protect system jobs, have
on-off hour times for certain kills, most of the good stuff.

Elementary

	create Indexed file
	Loop:
	wait n unless first iteration (the max idle time)
	Get PID and process info
	Process exemptions
	Append padded USERNAME to F$TIME()
	Check Indexed file - does this key exist?
		if it does then the job has been idle for n minutes.
				KILL it.
		if it does not exist, then Put this as a KEY to Indexed file
	repeat Loop