HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: v085f2wd@ubvmsb.cc.buffalo.edu (Theodore J Kury)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
Subject: Re: Who are these new Pirates ?
Date: 17 Dec 92 15:55:00 GMT
Organization: University at Buffalo
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41

In article <1992Dec16.171953.11668@murdoch.acc.Virginia.EDU>, drw3l@delmarva.evsc.Virginia.EDU (David Robert Walker) writes...
>In article <1992Dec16.143314.3708@cs.tulane.edu> eebonar@sn01.sncc.lsu.edu writes:
>>In article <BzByJ3.Du4@acsu.buffalo.edu>, v085f2wd@ubvmsb.cc.buffalo.edu (Theodore J Kury) writes...
>>> 
>>>Since the Pirates seem to be missing a cleanup hitter, these players all
>>>hit 4th in this many games for the Bisons:
>>> 
>>>Brian Dorsett        104
>>
>>	What's the deal with Dorsett?  He had a pretty good looking season
>>for the Bisons but I've never heard any mention of him as a possible player
>>(at catcher or first). If I remember correctly he was a first round pick
>>a couple of years ago.  Why is he not being promoted (or am I just missing
>>it by living so far south).
>>
>>Dave
>>__________
>>Dave Bonar
>>eebonar@lsuvax.sncc.lsu.edu
>>__________
>>
> 
> 
>The main reason you haven't heard much about him, and the reason why I
>didn't include him in my analysis of the Pirates, is that he will be
>32 this April. His numbers do look good, though, and offensively at
>least he is better than a lot of catchers in the league. Anyone at
>Buffalo or Columbus know anything about his defense?
> 
>Clay D.

No defensive stats, I'm afraid, but Dorsett spent most of his time as a
first-baseman and DH. From what I've seen of his work behind the plate, that's
his best position. He can't throw and doesn't block the plate (from runners
or wild pitches) very well. Or maybe I'm spoiled by watching Tom Prince for
years.

So he's basically a first-basemen/disaster catcher, and there is no
shortage of those.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ted Kury                        | "One man stands. And the wall ... cracks,   
v085f2wd@ubvms.cc.buffalo.edu   | and the wall ... cracks,
SUNY at Buffalo                 | and the wall comes crumbling down" - Anthrax  
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
From: mike@cunixf.cc.columbia.edu (Michael Chen)
Subject: Re: Mets and Yankees sign pitchers
Reply-To: mike@cunixf.cc.columbia.edu (Michael Chen)
Organization: Columbia University
Date: Fri, 11 Dec 1992 19:57:53 GMT

In article <1992Dec11.152513.24144@news.columbia.edu> jgl7@cunixa.cc.columbia.edu (Andrew T. Kim) writes:

>
>I heard Mets signed Frank Tanana to a 2 year deal, but I am not sure about
>the money (I sure hope it's not much).  Now the only thing they need is the
>Time Machine...


Tanana was signed to a one year/1.5 million dollar contract.  He is
penciled in as the #5 starter.

>
>Andy Kim
>
>
>

Mike
/mike@cunixf.cc.columbia.edu
From: jeff@smoggy.gg.caltech.edu (Jeff Goldsmith)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
Subject: Re: Who are the best pitchers of our generation?
Date: 20 Dec 1992 02:00:04 GMT
Organization: California Institute of Technology, Pasadena
Distribution: all
NNTP-Posting-Host: smoggy.gg.caltech.edu

In <1992Dec20.001044.13964@CSD-NewsHost.Stanford.EDU> nlu@Xenon.Stanford.EDU (Nelson Lu) writes:

... Nolan Ryan stuff...
 
I agree; it is long past time that we considered Nolan Ryan one of
the greatest.  Anyone know who his early pitching coaches were?  Frank
Tanana is still around, too, though he had a blown arm for awhile.  Still,
they've been in the show for a long time.

>Orel Hershiser (2.77 ERA, 4 great seasons)
Only 4 seasons?

>Fernando Valenzuela (3.34 ERA)
Another early blowout.

>Greg Maddux (not too early; he's already had as many good years as
>	Stewart and Viola)
>Dennis Martinez (mostly for longevity, but had some excellent seasons)
>Bert Blyleven (longevity, 3.27 ERA)
He certainly has one heck of a curveball.

>Bret Saberhagen (3.21 ERA)
A couple of Cy Youngs, too.

>Jim Acker (just to see if you're reading)

>I would rather have Hershiser, Valenzuela, Blyleven, or Saberhagen on the list
>than Stewart, Viola, or Morris.

Jack's been around for a long time, winning a lot of games for a pretty
bad Tiger team.  He's done fine everywhere else while in the twilight 
of his career.  He seems like a Hall of Famer to me, or at least on the
fringe.  Stewart and Viola aren't close, though.

One thing that Stewart does that is flat out impressive is that he
beats Clemens head-to-head.  One year I remember that he was 3-0 vs.
Clemens when Clemens only lost about seven games.  Baseball isn't 
transitive, though.

Does Carlton count as this generation?  He was awesome for a long time.
He won lots of games for pathetic teams and had ERAs that were very good
to excellent.

Lee Smith, Goose Gossage, Dan Quisenberry, Dennis Eckersley and 
a couple of other relievers are also possibilities to be considered.

I suggest a more specific question, though:  "Which pitchers active
in 1992 (1989?) will be in the Hall of Fame?"  Only Ryan and Clemens are 
obvious so far.  Blyleven might be 3rd on the list, though primarily 
because his career is just about over.  Morris is almost a sure thing,
now, too, though not quite.  I bet if he retired tomorrow, he'd get in the
HoF, so he's got to be, by some standard anyway, one of the best of the
current generation.  I think Eck will make the hall, too, as might Smith.

I wonder what Bill James' HoF formula says about Eck, now?  
				--Jeff
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
From: joel@math.toronto.edu (Joel Chan)
Subject: Re: Trivia Question
Organization: Department of Mathematics, University of Toronto
Distribution: usa
Date: Tue, 15 Dec 92 20:20:49 GMT

In article <15DEC199213241654@mary.fordham.edu> nissim@mary.fordham.edu (Leonard J. Nissim) writes:
>In article <BzB8Mw.27x@mach1.wlu.ca>, 
>lars4752@mach1.wlu.ca (Bradley Larsen u) writes...
>>Name the eight ways by which a batter can reach first base.
>> 
>
>There are at least twelve ways:  
>
>single
>double 
>triple
>home run

We can count all four of those as "a hit."

>walk
>hit by pitch
>error
>fielder's choice

Fine.

>wild pitch on swinging 3rd strike 
>passed ball on swinging 3rd strike 

What about a called 3rd strike that was dropped?  I think we combine those
three.

>catcher's interference

Isn't that an error?

>double play (e.g. 1-2-5 DP with bases loaded, 0 out; batter is on first base,
>             another runner on second base with 2 outs.)

>and a thirteenth if you are willing to count it:  
>
>triple play (e.g. 1-2-5-4 triple play with bases loaded, 0 out--batter 
>                  reaches first base and is left on first base, inning over.)

Aren't 12 and 13 both cases of Fielder's Choice?
Here are my eight:

1. Hit
2. Walk
3. HBP
4. Balk
5. K, dropped ball
6. Stolen Base       <----- Not sure about that one though.
7. Fielder's Choice
8. Error

Joel
-- 
Joel Chan, Department of Mathematics	  	 joel@math.toronto.edu
Toronto Blue Jays: 1992 World Series Champions
"History: Those who ignore it are condemned to repeat it.  Math, too."
				    -From the comic strip "Betty"
From: libwca@emory.edu (Bill Anderson)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
Subject: Re: Brave staff greatest in recent history?
Date: 15 Dec 92 15:56:56 GMT
Organization: Emory University, Atlanta, GA
X-Newsreader: Tin 1.1 PL3

ncovey@bronze.ucs.indiana.edu (neil covey) writes:
: On paper the Braves certainly have a very good staff.  But, even with
: the impressive numbers all of these pitchers have put up, I think we
: should wait til October to judge the actual efficacy of the staff.
: Right now the Braves have an ideal fantasy league staff, but they've yet to
: throw a pitch in 1993.  Strange things can happen.  It looks good for
: them, but nothing is guaranteed

I hope to god I'm being paranoid here, but each of these guys has
pitched a lot of innings in the last few years without major
injury.  Glavine, in particular, has seemed off his game at the end
of the season each of the last two years.  If I were that Brave's
trainer, I'd keep an especially close eye on the pitching staff.

Bill
From: rickert@NeXTwork.Rose-Hulman.Edu (John H. Rickert)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
Subject: same name (WAS Re: Maddux signs with Braves (Was Re: Juan Guzman/STATS))
Date: 12 Dec 1992 22:45:06 GMT
Organization: Computer Science Department at Rose-Hulman
Reply-To: rickert@NeXTwork.Rose-Hulman.Edu (John H. Rickert)
NNTP-Posting-Host: g215a-1.nextwork.rose-hulman.edu

In article <1992Dec10.191903.19818@athena.mit.edu> cmk@athena.mit.edu  
(Charles M Kozierok) writes:
> (good thing the expos traded gardner away, isn't it? can you imagine
> having mike gardiner and mark gardner on the same team?
> it was confusing enough when they were in different leagues :^)

Similar things have happened before.
A few years ago the Tigers had Billy Benae and Billy Bean
and the 1962 Mets had Bob Miller and Bob Miller.

I also saw a AA game a few years ago in which 
Chuck Howard faced Chuck Howard (I still don't know 
if it's ever happened in the majors - Anyone got some 
1981 box scores so that we can check out the Mike Marshalls?)

john rickert
rickert@nextwork.rose-hulman.edu
From: clgs11@vaxa.strath.ac.uk
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
Subject: BOSTON RED SOX
Date: 10 Dec 92 09:51:43 GMT
Organization: Strathclyde University VAX Cluster


Could someone please tell me, is there a Boston Red Sox Mailing List

available, and if so how can I join it ????

I'd be grateful for any replies either posted here or E-mailed direct.

                                  Thanks in Advance,

                                       Tony Cummins.
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
From: meadows@cslvax.weeg.uiowa.edu
Subject: Re: NL East analysis.k
Reply-To: meadows@cslvax.weeg.uiowa.edu
Organization: U. of Iowa - Weeg Computing Center
Date: Thu, 17 Dec 1992 15:28:57 GMT

In article <1992Dec17.030010.1666@midway.uchicago.edu>, thf2@ellis.uchicago.edu (Ted Frank) writes:
>In article <1992Dec17.000708.17351@cc.umontreal.ca> iacurtop@ERE.UMontreal.CA (Iacurto Paul) writes:
>>POSITION BY POSITION RATINGS
>
>>CENTER FIELD                AB      BA     OBA     HR      RBI     SB
>>Rick Wilkins    - Cubs      244     .270   .344     8       22      0
>>Marquis Grissom - Expos     653     .276   .322    14       66     78
>>Andy Van Slyke  - Pirates   614     .324   .381    14       89     12
>>Ray Lankford    - Cards     598     .293   .371    20       86     42
>>
>>Ratings:
>>1 - Ray Lankford       10
>>2 - Marquis Grissom     9
>>3 - Andy Van Slyke      8
>>5 - Rick Wilkins        6
>
>Here's where I find a problem with your system -- is the difference
>between Rick Wilkins and Andy Van Slyke worth the same as the difference
>between Ray Lankford and Andy Van Slyke?  I don't think so.
>
>Van Slyke should be ahead of Grissom.
>
    WOW!! - who's going to catch if Rick Wilkins starts playing center
field for the Cubs?? :-)

    If I was Andy VanSlyke, I'd really be upset that I was only two points
better than a catcher at playing center field...

-Howard


***************************************************************************
* Howard Meadows       Sr. Systems Programmer     Weeg Computing Center   *
* University Of Iowa   Iowa City, Iowa  52242     Phone: 319-335-5519     *
*                  email: howard-meadows@uiowa.edu                        *
***************************************************************************
Xref: sparky rec.sport.baseball:36214 soc.women:21511 soc.men:21215
From: libwca@emory.edu (Bill Anderson)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball,soc.women,soc.men
Subject: Re: Women Sports Reporters
Date: 15 Dec 92 22:33:34 GMT
Followup-To: rec.sport.baseball
Organization: Emory University, Atlanta, GA
X-Newsreader: Tin 1.1 PL3

bhv@areaplg2.corp.mot.com (Bronis Vidugiris) writes:
: In article <8DEC92.00475002@vax.clarku.edu> hhenderson@vax.clarku.edu writes:
: 
: )And it's nice of you to be so sensitive to their feelings, but from all
: )accounts, most professional athletes are not averse to being viewed by
: )strange women in casual circumstances.
: 
: That's why they're sending the women reporters dead rats.  Presumably it's a
: courtship ritual - the man wants to prove that he is a good hunter and
: provider, so he just sends the woman he's interested in a symbolic token of
: his ability to hunt & provide....
: 
: [Do I need the smiley?]
: 
: I am a little skeptical of someone telling me there is no resentment given
: the circumstances, it does seem mildly disingenuous.       


Nevertheless, is does seem to be true, for the most part.  Some 
athletes are uncomfortable with it, of course, and some are 
crazy enough to express that discomfort rodentially, so to 
speak; but from interviews I've read, most could care less.

Bill  
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
From: roger@crux.Princeton.EDU (Roger Lustig)
Subject: Re: The Mets' All-Time Team
Originator: news@nimaster
Reply-To: roger@astro.princeton.edu (Roger Lustig)
Organization: Princeton University
Distribution: na
Date: Sun, 13 Dec 1992 13:51:30 GMT

In article <1992Dec10.195806.12740@asd.com> scott@asd.com (Scott Barman) writes:
>>RF:  Darryl Strawberry (but only if we don't include an honorary DH)

>I was torn between this and one other person.  But if you look at it, I
>guess Darryl can stay as the "starter."  For his backup: Rusty Staub.
>Staub held the team record for RBIs until Gary Carter tied it in 1986
>and HoJo broke it in 1991.  Staub broke his shoulder in Game 3 of the
>1973 NL Playoffs (long before some marketing-type though up "League
>Championship Series") running into the wall in RF to catch a ball.  He
>played the rest of the post season in pain.

"For the first time since the leagues split in half in 1969, some true
expectation centered on the divisional playoffs this year (only TV
announcers refer to them by their full, Avenue of the Americas title,
"theChampionship Series), because all four pennant races had fallen so
flat."  -- Roger Angell, _The Summer Game_, p.273 (on the 1971 season)

Yes, it was *born* tacky.  8-)

Roger

Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
From: dtokarew@tokafew.Doc.Provo.Novell.COM (Deb Tokarewich)
Subject: Re: Maddux a Brave (Was: Re: Bob Gaj's Hot Stove, and Other Signings...)
Keywords: Cubs, Maddux
Organization: Novell, Inc.
Date: Sat, 12 Dec 1992 07:26:37 GMT

In article <9DEC199223474469@pierre.mit.edu> kettler@pierre.mit.edu  
(KETTLER, THOMAS R.) writes:

[stuff deleted]
 
> I heard on the 11:00 news that Maddux has signed with Atlanta. The value  
of the 
> contract is $28 million for five years. I find it interesting that the  
dollar 
> amount is the same as for the contract he rejected at the beginning of  
the 
> season from the Cubs.

You may find it "interesting." I find it...forget it...I can't come up  
with a word for it.

Some people have commented how wonderful it is to see a player not take  
the big money (Greg turned down the larger Yankee offer). Sure, real swell  
of him. Why couldn't he have accepted the same "cheaper" offer from the  
Cubs instead of the Braves, though? Yeah, yeah...here's his chance to  
finally be on a contender. I know. And I don't think there's anyone more  
deserving of being on one than Greg. And the way the front office treated  
him at the end is unforgiveable...but what was their ill treatment of him  
at the start (or in mid-season?) when they first made the offer and he  
wouldn't accept it? (Being away from home now, I don't always get all the  
details from Wrigley that I'd like.)

I suppose a lot of my reaction is sentimental--heck, I saw him pitch his  
first game at Wrigley...and many, many more in his amazing years there  
since. And as some others have noted, he was "ours"--home grown and  
wonderful. But he was also one of the very best ever that the Cubs  
produced and one of the very few (good) constants they've had in recent  
years. There were many times when the only reason for even bothering to go  
to Wrigley was because Greg was pitching (and, unfortunately, that may  
still be too true too often.)

You thought we were (and some still are) upset over the loss of Lou Brock,  
or Raphael Palmeiro? I'm going to do everything I can to be at Wrigley  
when Greg first pitches there as a Brave. What will the reaction be,  
toward him and toward management, that day? I can guess what *my* reaction  
will be. Most likely still the same as it is now...

..deep shock.
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
From: dietz@parody.Data-IO.COM (Kent Dietz)
Subject: Re: Comments on SF (Bonds, Stadium)
Organization: Data I/O Corporation
Date: Sat, 12 Dec 1992 01:21:02 GMT

In article <1992Dec10.154550.1454@cs.tulane.edu>, eebonar@sn01.sncc.lsu.edu (Dave Bonar) writes:
|> In article <of9eEDm00WB9AT9n8X@andrew.cmu.edu>, Amit Likhyani <al1x+@andrew.cmu.edu> writes...
|> > 
|> >The most interesting thing he said was that Bonds is going to make it
|> >harder for the Giants to get a new stadium.  His logic is that the
|> >taxpayers are not going to subsidize the left fielder.  The worst part
|> >is that he might be right.  That is not how I would vote, but think
|> >about the general population.
|> 
|> 	This might be true. If I was in the Bay area I don't think I'd vote
|> for a tax increase to build the Giants a new staduim.  Of course, I wouldn't
|> vote for it with or without Bonds but I'm sure that seeing the team spend
|> loads of money is going to make some people think twice.
|> 
|> Dave
|> __________
|> Dave Bonar
|> eebonar@lsuvax.sncc.lsu.edu
|> __________

This appears to be the logic in San Francisco (and in Seattle for that matter).
It seems to be that the Giants are trying to convey to the people of the Bay
Area that they want to put an attractive product on the field.  Instead, the
voters will take this as an assumption that they have *soooo* much money, then
they can build their *own* stadium (huff!).

I think that the Giants made a mistake in buying such a high profile player.
One player a team does not make.  From what I saw of Pittsburgh attendance
(which was admittedly limited to the playoffs) Bonds never attracted enough
people to warrant the price for fan appeal only.  If they had spent the money
more carefully, they could have strengthened the entire team and probably 
helped themselves more in the standings (IMHO).

The beauty of a Puckett or Griffey is that the fans for some reason see those
players as appealing.  People (myself included) will go to games if for no 
other reason than to  see that one player.  Griffey has been a big part of the
reason the Mariners have drawn well over their previous averages in the last
two years (2 Mil in 1991, 1.6 this year for a 64-98 team!).  

Likewise, Minnesota was probably wise to sign Puckett for business reasons, if
not for baseball reasons.  

But, Bonds will have to prove himself under extreme pressure.  Bonilla did not
handle it real well, and apparently, Bonilla took lessons from Bonds on 
handling the media and fans :-)

Time will tell, but I expect Bonds to keep having good years and hear nothing
but crap from the "fans".


Praying for no lockout,

Kent Dietz
Twins in '93, Mariners in ... never mind!
From: jdd@wheezer.wustl.edu (John DeHart)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
Subject: Re: NL East analysis.k
Date: 18 Dec 92 15:44:11 GMT
Organization: Washington University, St. Louis MO

In article <1992Dec17.000708.17351@cc.umontreal.ca> iacurtop@ERE.UMontreal.CA (Iacurto Paul) writes:
>FIRST BASE:                 AB    BA   OBA   HR  RBI  SB
>Mark Grace     - Cubs       603  .307  .380   9   72   6
>Eddie Murray   - Mets       551  .261  .336  16   93   4
>John Kruk      - Phillies   507  .323  .423  10   70   3
>Greg Colbrunn  - Expos      168  .268  .294   2   18   3
>Orlando Merced - Pirates    405  .247  .332   6   60   5
>Stan Royer     - Cards       31  .323  .333   2    9   1

1B for the Cards is almost certainly Rod Brewer's at the start of Spring Training.
It is his to lose. 

John DeHart
jdd@arl.wustl.edu
Washington University, St. Louis Mo.
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
From: tedward@cs.cornell.edu (Edward [Ted] Fischer)
Subject: Re: KEY SIGNS WITH YANKEES
Organization: Cornell Univ. CS Dept, Ithaca NY 14853
Date: Fri, 11 Dec 1992 19:22:12 GMT

In article <1992Dec11.090143.4643@spcvxb.spc.edu> 5checki_m@spcvxb.spc.edu writes:
>
>After waking up this morning, I saw that Toronto Blue Jays Pitcher
>Jimmy Key signed a 4 year, 18 million dollar deal with the New York
>Yankees.  This shores up the Yankee rotation, and gives them three
>quality starting pitchers. Now if they could only get another, and
>obtain Joe Orsulak via free agency, might we be talking about a
>contender.

Why on earth do you want Joe Orsulak???

Current projected lineup:
LF	Tartabull
CF	Williams
RF	O'Neill
3B	Meulens/Velarde
SS	Owen/Stankiewicz
2B	Gallego/Kelly
1B	Mattingly
C	Nokes/Stanley
DH	Maas

4OF	Gerald Williams
5OF	Velarde?  Meulens?  Better hope people stay healthy.

It's a quality lineup, if a bit short on OBP.  If they sign Boggs,
they have even more of a logjam in the infield.  But Boggs might
provide the offense necessary to put them over the top.  (Serves Wade
right.  He may be the first free agent ever to earn *less* than if he
had accepted an earlier offer from his original club.  Seems nobody is
really interested in him.)

As for the pitching, I see at least four quality arms.  Key is getting
old, but he hasn't lost it yet.

SP	Jim Abbott
SP	Melido Perez
SP	Sam Militello
SP	Jimmy Key
SP	?????  The Yankees have a ton of prospects to contend for this spot.

-Valentine
From: psg+@pitt.edu (Paul S Galvanek)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
Subject: Re: PIRATES WILL RULE!!!!
Date: 12 Dec 92 17:50:50 GMT
Organization: University of Pittsburgh

In article <Af9vJCm00iV484j61v@andrew.cmu.edu> jg4e+@andrew.cmu.edu (J. Anthony Graves) writes:
>8) OPENING DAY LINEUP...(ASSUMING THE MCGEE TRADE AND LOSING BELL)
>McGEE LF
>MERCED 1B
>VAN SLYKE CF
>MARTIN RF
>KING 2B
>YOUNG 3B
>SLAUGHT C
>GARCIA SS
>WAKEFIELD P

Okay folks, here's the latest scoop since it seems to not be common
knowledge yet...

What was first reported as a rumor, on local Pittsburgh radio (and posted by
yours truly) and then later reported as fact on Frisco radio, is NOT TRUE.

The reports of a trade for Willie McGee are not true.  Also last night on 
TV news, Ted Simmons has flat out said Jay Bell is not available for any
trade that he could conceive and the he WILL be playing SS for the Pirates
in 1993.  In addition to shooting down reports of the Mike L. / McGee trade
he also said, that despite reports, he is not shopping Lavalierererer (sp 8^)
though he wouldn't out right dismiss the idea as he did with Bell.

PSG
-- 
"Now if a lawyer, or doctor, was sloppy in a diagnosis and 
 hurt you; you could sue.  The advantage of being a journalist 
 is, you can be sloppy, not do your homework and hurt people,     Paul Tsongas 
 and it's just part of the game.  It's not a game!"              4 - DEC - 1992