HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: choy@skorpio.usask.ca (I am a terminator.)
Newsgroups: sci.engr
Subject: Re: I don't want to keep looking for new jobs.
Date: 24 Dec 1992 20:56:57 GMT
Organization: University of Saskatchewan, Saskatoon, Canada
Distribution: na
NNTP-Posting-Host: skorpio.usask.ca

In article <1992Dec21.194434.1455@cbfsb.cb.att.com>, rizzo@cbnewsf.cb.att.com (anthony.r.rizzo) writes:
|> The days of a career track in engineering are just about over.
|> Now, engineering offers jobs, nothing more.  And it ain't getting
|> any better.  Companies have been shifting manufacturing jobs
|> across the borders and overseas for years.  That trend is increasing,
|> not decreasing.  It won't be long before most of the engineering 
|> goes overseas too.  Some of it is already there.  People
|> in other countries, it seems, have comparable education and
|> can do the work just as well as we can.  The only difference
|> seems to be that they are currently willing to do it for much less.

We have to keep up. Do the job better. Do things that no one else can do
and that everyone wants to do.

|> Other costs are less too, for the companies.  Some countries have
|> socialized medicine.  So, companies don't have to pay for medical
|> insurance.  But the real driving force is the cost of labor,
|> and I include engineers in this.  Labor costs are simply less
|> overseas.  

Are labor costs too high here. Should we be happy with less? Or are
the people overseas too tolerant? What's it like to work overseas?

|> The only way for you and me to maintain our standard of
|> living is to be able to do things that the overseas types can't do.
|> Maybe we can get an edge somehow.

Engineers can improve themselves quickly if they have better access to
good information. Also a procedure for performing engineering work is
needed.
 
I go to the store and see crap on the shelves. The stuff that isn't
crap is too expensive. I'm accumulating a lot of stuff and it's hard to
convince me to buy one more thing unless it's really nice. It seems the
quality of goods must increase exponentially with time to attract buyers.
Engineering design quality likely should increase exponentially with
time. The infrastructure quality has to increase exponentially to permit
engineering work to increase. For example, I'm working on a clunky
Dec 5000/120 connected to a 10 Mbit/s Ethernet. The computer is 1 yr
old, and I want a Dec Alpha connected to fiber. With a 10 Gb hard drive
and a 30" screen. 100 Mb of RAM. I'm always taking things to the limits.
If the limits grow, I go faster. I work better. The world becomes a
better place.

We used to have Sun 3/50s in the undergrad lab, and everyone limited
their work to these machines. Now we have 25 Mips per workstation,and
the students have become much bolder. Raise our children on Nintendo! :-)

-- 

Henry Choy
choy@cs.usask.ca

Hey kids, start jumping up and down like idiots.

Looking for LOG for a good price?

Dial 1-800-byBLAMO !!!!

"Log rolls down stairs. Rolls over in pairs. 
 Rolls over your neighbor's dog.
 It's good for a snack. It fits on your back.
 It's LOG LOG LOG!!!!"

             -- Ren * Stimpy
Newsgroups: sci.engr
From: rizzo@cbnewsf.cb.att.com (anthony.r.rizzo)
Subject: Re: I don't want to keep looking for new jobs.
Organization: AT&T
Distribution: na
Date: Mon, 21 Dec 1992 19:44:34 GMT

In article <1gt3n6INNko5@access.usask.ca> choy@skorpio.usask.ca (I am a terminator.) writes:
>The latest issue of Spectrum discusses the conversion of engineers from
>military work to civilian work. One of the articles says that
>many engineers could go through 10-12 jobs in a lifetime. Companies tend
>to contract work out so engineers can't expect to work in a stable
>company. They have to learn to manage themselves and go around looking
>for work. Having to look for work every few years is a royal pain in the
>ass. Upper management should be getting enough work to keep their
>engineers employed. There's a few engineering firms in town. They bid
>on contracts and employ engineers to grind out the details. An
>engineering friend of mine was laid off from one such company because it
>didn't have enough work to do. Now my friend has gone out and found
>people wanting to contract work out. What's this big company doing?
>It's gotten so big that it doesn't even know how to get work. They just
>bury themselves with paperwork and legal matters.
>
>Henry Choy
>choy@cs.usask.ca


Get used to it!

The days of a career track in engineering are just about over.
Now, engineering offers jobs, nothing more.  And it ain't getting
any better.  Companies have been shifting manufacturing jobs
across the borders and overseas for years.  That trend is increasing,
not decreasing.  It won't be long before most of the engineering 
goes overseas too.  Some of it is already there.  People
in other countries, it seems, have comparable education and
can do the work just as well as we can.  The only difference
seems to be that they are currently willing to do it for much less.

Other costs are less too, for the companies.  Some countries have
socialized medicine.  So, companies don't have to pay for medical
insurance.  But the real driving force is the cost of labor,
and I include engineers in this.  Labor costs are simply less
overseas.  

The only way for you and me to maintain our standard of
living is to be able to do things that the overseas types can't do.
Maybe we can get an edge somehow.

The government should play a role here too.  The government,
if it really represented the people and not the special interests,
would see to it that the local labor force looked more attractive
to corporations (American AND foreign).  It can do this in a number
of ways.  For example, it can offer tax credits to firms that
employ Americans in America.  Foreign governments do it, and it works.
One example of this is the newly built GM plant, in Canada.
The Canadian government kidded in the equivalent of about $100M
in the form of tax breaks.  As a result, thousands of GM workers
and engineers, and thousands more employed by the smaller companies
that supplied the GM plant, are looking for work.

See you in the unemployment line.

Tony Rizzo  (att.com!hogpb!rizzo)
Newsgroups: sci.engr
From: edmoore@vcd.hp.com (Ed Moore)
Subject: Re: I don't want to keep looking for new jobs.
Date: Mon, 21 Dec 1992 21:27:00 GMT
Distribution: na
Organization: Hewlett-Packard VCD
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1.4 PL6]

: The days of a career track in engineering are just about over.
: Now, engineering offers jobs, nothing more.

I entered the engineering market with GE in 1967.  Career guidance and
tuition reimbursement programs urged the engineer to pursue education in
depth.  If we engineers must expect to have many jobs rather than a few,
then perhaps we should pursue education in breadth rather than in depth.
I met an engineer at Boeing in 1978 who had designed body frames for
airplanes for 22 years - and only in the center section of the airplane!
He had a career in body frame design, but he wouldn't have been prepared
to change jobs outside aircraft.  Perhaps an engineer's continuing 
education should be directed entirely in areas _not_ related to the
present position.

I've often said that aircraft companies hire engineers by the acre.
(For this new program we need 3 acres of structural designers, 2 acres
of stress analysts, 2.5 acres of aerodynamicsts, etc.)  It is very, very
different working for Hewlett-Packard.  There were far more stress
analysts on the 757 than all the specialist engineers in HP.  Apparently
HP understands that no product family lasts forever, and engineers must
be prepared to change jobs _within_the_company_ several times in a
career.  Specialties may disappear with a product family, so specialists
are rare.  Many job openings in growing HP divisions are restricted to
people declared excess by a shrinking division.  I've been with HP for
7 years and believe I can stay until I retire (19 years), but I don't
know what product families I'll work on or what engineering functions
I'll perform in those years.

---------------------
My opinions, not HP's.
Ed Moore
Hewlett-Packard
Vancouver, WA
Newsgroups: sci.engr,sci.engr.mech
From: dickia@rpi.edu (Andrew B. Dickinson)
Subject: Need info on household radiators ...
Organization: Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute
Distribution: sci
Date: Sun, 3 Jan 1993 08:09:45 GMT

Hi -

	Don't know if this is the right newgroup to post this to,
but... I'm looking for information on how to fix a household radiator
(connected to a steam heat system).  I was told by someone that
radiators occasionally need to be "bled."  

	Can anyone tell me how to do this?  I tried opening up a valve
on the radiator, which let out a bunch of air, but it didn't fix the
problem.  Any suggestions?


Thanks,

Andy Dickinson   [----------------------------] dickia@rpi.edu [{<---+++--->}]
271 Lark St. #3, Albany, NY 12210  [--------] 	(518) 426 - 7907  *#*#*#*#*#*#*
<><><><> This .sig left intentionally uninteresting due to the lack of anything
really clever or unique I could think of to put in its place..... =+=+=+=+=+=+
From: victoro@crash.cts.com (Victor O'Rear)
Newsgroups: sci.engr
Subject: GUI Data Acquisition Software
Summary: How good are the current crop of GIU Data Acquisition programs
Keywords: Reviews? LabView LabTech
Date: 25 Dec 92 04:02:59 GMT
Organization: CTS Network Services (crash, ctsnet), El Cajon, CA

I realise that I'm dealing with the most educated scientific researchers, and you probably
write your own data acquisition software in APL, but maybe you seen others work with the new
Graphic User Interfaced programs like LabTech Notebook or National's LabView or LabWindows.

How useful are these programs and what problems have you seen before I but something or
suggest something to others..

Thanks in advance.  Please respond to the net so I can get so cross-discussion.
Newsgroups: sci.engr
From: sharma@mcs.kent.edu (Naveen Sharma)
Subject: Looking for the address of Algor Inc.
Reply-To: sharma@mcs.kent.edu
Organization:  Dept. of Math and Computer Science
Date: Sat, 26 Dec 1992 22:22:39 GMT

  I am looking for the (USmail/Email) address of -- 
  W. Charles Paulsen, 
  Vice Pesident of Science and Tech., Algor Inc.

  I would appreciate any help.
  
  Naveen Sharma	  		            
  Research Associate                             
  Institute for Computational Mathematics        
  Department of Mathematics and Computer Science 
  Kent State University		    	    
  Kent Ohio 44242 		    		 
  e-mail: sharma@mcs.kent.edu  (internet)        
  Phone: (216) 672-4004, Ext. 252.
From: howard.smith@spacebbs.com (Howard Smith) 
Newsgroups: sci.engr
Subject: New Hydrogen BBS
Date: 29 Dec 92 17:43:00 GMT
Distribution: world
Organization: SPACE BBS - Menlo Park, CA - 10 Lines + 4gB - 415-323-4193
Reply-To: howard.smith@spacebbs.com (Howard Smith) 


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---
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----
SPACE BBS - Menlo Park, CA - 10 Lines - BoardWatch Top Ten BBS
415-323-4193 (v.32bis) - 4gB (50,000 files) + Wx, UPI News, etc.
Newsgroups: sci.engr
From: bernie@metapro.DIALix.oz.au (Bernd Felsche)
Subject: Re: I want to learn engineering
Organization: MetaPro Systems, Perth, Western Australia
Date: Wed, 23 Dec 92 08:33:42 GMT

In <BzL365.CKy@ais.org> danr@ais.org (Daniel Romanchik) writes:

>In article <1h0e5nINN29n@access.usask.ca> choy@skorpio.usask.ca (I am a terminator.) writes:
>>The present system does not make it easy to learn engineering on my own.
>>Textbooks are hard to understand. They are incomplete. They are very
>>hard to work with. The education I got doesn't do justice to engineering.
>>
>>Education isn't merely the basic undergraduate training. More advanced
>>reference material let's me down too.

>   Welcome to the real world of engineering again.  The only way to
>learn engineering is by doing it.  The university can only point you
>in the right direction.  You've got to actually design something
>before you can call yourself an engineer.

And the best thing that Unix can teach you is that you know
*nothing* -- well comparatively.

Depending on your chosen field, the you can gain much more
from the experience of others (and not just engineers; also
technicians, tradespeople and even unskilled labourers) is
more valuable to gain a deep understanding of what you
working on. Keep an open mind and always listen. You'll be
told a lot of crap (just like at University/College/Tech).
Hopefully, with time you'll be able to distinguish that from
the important stuff.

Good luck.
-- 
+-----+ Bernd Felsche                     _--_|\  #include <std/disclaimer.h>
| | | | MetaPro Systems Pty Ltd          /      \ bernie@metapro.DIALix.oz.au
| | | | 328 Albany Highway,              X_.--._/         Fax: +61 9 472 3337
|m|p|s| Victoria Park, Western Australia 6100  v        Phone: +61 9 362 9355
Newsgroups: sci.engr
From: chenm@newton.ccs.tuns.ca (Ming chen)
Subject: Inquiry: Contaminant Transport Models
Date: Wed, 23 Dec 1992 23:39:23 GMT
Distribution: sci.engr.chem, sci.environment, sci.engr.mech
Organization: Technical University of Nova Scotia, Halifax, N.S.

 Hello, everyone.

 I am currently looking for some contaminant transport models. 
 I wander if there is any ftp sites/archives for such models or
 other numerical models (finite elements, finite difference or
 boundary elements).

 Thanks in advance.

 /ming

 chenm@tuns.ca


Newsgroups: sci.engr
From: ninassup@athena.mit.edu (Nikos I Nassuphis)
Subject: Chicago ASHRAE 93
Organization: Massachusetts Institute of Technology
Date: Mon, 21 Dec 1992 18:12:22 GMT

I need to find a list of participants to the
93 Chicago ASHRAE 

Can anyone help me with this one ?

Thanx 
Nick Nassuphis
ninassup@athena.mit.edu
From: srose@mizar.usc.edu (Steve Rose)
Newsgroups: sci.engr
Subject: Looking for inexpensive N2O (Nitrous Oxide) sensor
Date: 29 Dec 1992 09:28:28 -0800
Organization: University of Southern California, Los Angeles, CA
Distribution: world
Expires: January 31, 1993
NNTP-Posting-Host: mizar.usc.edu
Keywords: sensors detectors nitrous oxide

Attempting to locate an inexpensive N2O (Nitrous Oxide) sensor/detector
sensitive to levels between 5 parts/million to 200 parts/million.  Continous
readout would be ideal, but not absolutely necessary.  NO (Nitric Oxide)
sensor technology will probably not work.

Probable required technology (given cost constraints) would be 
electrochemical/fuel cells.  UV or IR sensors would probably be cost-
prohibitive.

If you have any ideas, or you know other appropriate newsgroups/listservs
to post this to, please let me know.

Thanks,

Steve Rose
Information Specialist
NASA Far West Regional Technology Transfer Center
(srose@mizar.usc.edu)
From: bluelobster+@CMU.EDU (David O Hunt)
Newsgroups: sci.engr
Subject: Re: I don't want to keep looking for new jobs.
Date: 21 Dec 92 15:09:28 GMT
Article-I.D.: andrew.AfBaf8K00iUx4443V6
	<BzMox1.Jyt@vcd.hp.com>
Distribution: na
Organization: Carnegie Mellon, Pittsburgh, PA

On 21-Dec-92 in Re: I don't want to keep lo..
user Ed Moore@vcd.hp.com writes:
>If we engineers must expect to have many jobs rather than a few,
>then perhaps we should pursue education in breadth rather than in depth.

Yah!  A little of this, a little of that.  It makes sense.

When I co-oped at GE (and then worked before coming to grad school) I was a
Finite Element structural and processing analyst.  (Wheee.)  When the company
I worked for folded, I obviously searched for another job.  Do you know that
the only position I was considered for, anywhere, was an analyst?  Are you
surprised?

I know several very talented engineers who are locked into FEA.  I know a
few, at GM especially, who've been doing the same COMPONENT for 5+ years!!
This is a phenomenal waste of a resources...that's why I went back to grad
school - in order to broaden my horizons.

Interdisciplinary studies (I share my office w/ 2 other Mech E's a Civ E,
a Chem E (I think, I never see him), and an Architecture student are highly
effective in sparking ideas.  The "cross-pollenization" that occurs is really
great!

We need more company managers (like Ed Moore's HP bosses) who recognize that
a well-trained and CROSS-TRAINED staff is far more useful than a whole room
full of specialists.



David Hunt - Graduate Slave |     My mind is my own.      | Towards both a
Mechanical Engineering      | So are my ideas & opinions. | Palestinian and
Carnegie Mellon University  | <<<Use Golden Rule v2.0>>>  | Jewish homeland!
====T=H=E=R=E===I=S===N=O===G=O=D=========T=H=E=R=E===I=S===N=O===G=O=D=====
Email:  bluelobster+@cmu.edu    Working towards my "Piled Higher and Deeper"

"If the liberties of the American people are every destroyed, they will fall
by the hands of the Clergy." -- General Marquis De Lafayette, 1789
Newsgroups: sci.engr
From: rick@cs.sunysb.edu (Richard Spanbauer)
Subject: Re: I don't want to keep looking for new jobs.
Organization: State University of New York, Stony Brook
Distribution: na
Date: Thu, 31 Dec 1992 14:52:13 GMT

In article <1992Dec30.220640.6179@cbfsb.cb.att.com> rizzo@cbnewsf.cb.att.com (anthony.r.rizzo) writes:
>In article <1992Dec30.091508@roper.mc.ti.com> a722756@roper.mc.ti.com (W. Donald Rolph) writes:
>Of course you may.  In fact, I would agree with you.
>That's exactly the way that many managers treat employees, hence
>the terms head count, and human capital.  HUMAN CAPITAL?  Just
>SEEING those words makes me furious.  This is one term that I find

	No doubt the phrase "human capital" was conjured up in part as
	a conscience tranquilizer to be taken whenever doing layoffs, 
	especially around Christmas.  After all, it has to be pretty hard
	to sleep at night eg when you're Lee Iacocca (sp?) making $20M a
	year and ordering hundreds of $40K a year "worker bees" to take
	a lay off.

	My major beef about the business world is the personal belief I
	hold that much of executive level management is compensated beyond
	the real demands of their positions.  Only in America, I suppose, do
	execs even in non profits make $600K+ per year, even in years when
	the corporation operates in the red.  Sigh.  Of course, the salaries
	paid are comparatively a drop in the bucket, but I suspect they cause
	far more incidental damage, eg in morale, than society or TPTB
	acknowledge.

>Tony Rizzo

					Rick Spanbauer, SUNY/Stony Brook
Newsgroups: sci.engr.civil
From: g9205802@cc.uow.edu.au (muralidharan chinnaiyan)
Subject: Exhibition-Environmental Management
Summary: Exhibition-Environmental Management
Keywords: Exhibition-Environmental Management
Organization: University Of Wollongong
Date: Mon, 21 Dec 92 16:45:34 GMT


               International Conference on Environmental Management 
               ****************************************************

                         Geo-water and Engineering Aspect
                         --------------------------------
                                 
                                8 - 11 February 1993 

                              University of Wollongong         
                                     Australia


                              Exhibition Information
                              **********************

A state of the art exhibition is being planned to supplement the International 

Conference  on  Environmental  Management  to  be  held  at  the University of 

Wollongong.  This  is  indeed  a great opportunity for Australian and overseas 

companies to demonstrate and  advertise  their  expertise,  latest  equipment, 

services  etc.  in  the  general  area  of  Environmental Management focussing 

specially on Geo-water and Engineering Aspects.


The  conference  has  attracted  more than 200 abstracts from 30 countries and 

currently we have received over 100 papers.   It is expected that over 250-300 

participants will attend the conference.


Space provision and availability:
********************************

It  is  expected that over 20 booths will be made available approximately each 

9 Sq.m  in  floor area.  The allocation of booths will be done on a first come 

first  served  basis.  If you intend to occupy more than 9 Sq.m floor area you 

can rent two adjacent booths at a reduced rate.


Space rental:
************

The  rental  price  is $1600 per booth for all four days.  However if you rent 

two adjacent spaces it will be $2800 per two booths.


What will you get?

Each  booth  will  comprise  of  a  rear  wall  and  two  side  panels  each 

3.0m long x 2.4m high.  The entrance is 3.0 m in length.

One sign per booth 

2 x 150w spot lights

All walls and fascia covered with front runner material

Carpet on stands

Space reservation and payment:
*****************************

For reservation:	

please call	Mrs Val McMillan on 042-213243 (Mon- Thur)
			
		or please call	Siva M Sivakumar on 042-213055 
		
		or please fax	Siva M Sivakumar on 042-213238

 		or please E-mail M.Sivakumar@uow.edu.au

Payment:  	Should be made by cheque payable to:
		
		"University of Wollongong - R&D Geowater"

-- 

****************************************************************************
MURALIDHARAN CHINNAIYAN                | 5/13, Hill View Avennue,
Dept. of Civil & Mining Engineering,   | Gwynneville, NSW 2500,
From: mathi@vax2.concordia.ca (RAVI, MATHI)
Newsgroups: sci.engr.civil
Subject: GUINDY: Int. symp. on Strides in Civil Engineering
Keywords: International conference, Guindy Bicentennial
Date: 22 Dec 92 18:30:00 GMT
Organization: Concordia University
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41


Dear Friends of Guindy College of Engineering (CEG), Anna University, 
Madras, India:

   As part of the bicentennial celebrations(1794-1994) the Society of Civil Engineers
is organising an int. symp. on Strides in Civil Engineering, during 
March 10-12, 1993.
 The folloeing themes are listed in the phamplet:
Electronics and computers
Environmental systems
Estimating
Soil Mechanics
Structures
Surveying, Photogrammetry and Remote Sensing
Transportation Management
Urban and Rural Development
Water Resources
Miscellany: Archot., Acoust., Lightg., Energy....etc.

D.L for submitting papers (2500 words) with abstract is 10 Jan. along with 
a reg. fees of US$300 (draft), payable to "Int. Symp.on Strides in Civil
 Engineering," payable at Madras. D/L for registration is 10 Feb. 93.
15% off for payment rcvd. by 10 Jan. '93.

TO:
Prof. M. Sadasivam           
President
Society of Civil Engineers
Anna University
Guindy, Madras 600 025, India.


Need more please send me an e-mail


Ravi
Organization: TECHNION - Israel Institute of Technology.
Date: Sunday, 20 Dec 1992 13:42:09 IST
From: Hillel Arkin <CVRARHI@TECHNION.BITNET>
Newsgroups: sci.engr.civil
Subject:    Intelligent buildings

We are now conducting a literature search on the State-of-the-Art of
Intelligent Buildings.  To this end, I will appreciate any info. regarding
research in this field (published articles, ongoing research projects,
technical data on intelligent buildings (existing or at the design stage)
etc.  Any such information will be greatly appreciated.
Inte
Newsgroups: sci.engr.civil