From: rlt@cbnewsl.cb.att.com (r l taylor)
Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.misc
Subject: Re: Sexist statement
Date: 4 Sep 92 15:42:36 GMT
Organization: AT&T

In article <9209041412.AA02355@glas.rtsg.mot.com> woods@glas.rtsg.mot.COM (Simon Woodworth) writes:

>   I can't resist adding my two pence (cents) worth to this dis-
>cussion. I know it has nothing to do with Amateur radio,

Me, either.  However, I will attempt to steer it back onto an appropriate
course (eventually).

>As for the use of the term "guys" as a
>collective noun for a group of both men and women: Why should
>women put up with a collective noun with masculine origins being
>applied to them?

Just who is it who's applying this horrid word to women?  A few years
ago, we at Bell Labs (Whippany - at least, my department) were treated
to an Affirmative Action seminar dealing with sexual harrassment
in the workplace.  The facilitator, who seemed to me to be what I
would classify as a hard-core feminist, was vehement in her insistance
that "guys" was the PC word of choice when referring to/addressing a
mixed group (or all-female, for that matter).  Most of the objections
were from men, who felt it was disrepectful.  Go figure...

>Why don't we use the term "girls" to apply to a
>mixed group instead? Or is that too much for the average male to
>stomach?

According to our AA facilitator, "if she's over 12, she's not a
girl, she's a woman."  "Gals" was proposed as an alternative when
addressing an all-female group, but according to the facilitator,
it's no good because it conjures up images of Annie Oakley (or
something like that.)  Personally, I've been pushing for "y'all"
for years, but up here in YankeeLand, I doubt it'll wash.  "Gang"
might be acceptable...

But, since I did promise to try to bring this back onto the topic
of Amateur Radio, how do y'all :-) feel about the common (around here,
at least) practice of letting YL's into hamfests for free?  Or Old
Phart ragchewing nets, with seemingly double standards?  I'm thinking
of one I'm familiar with, the Maine Potatoe (yep, they've been spelling
it that way for years) Net, where it's common to refer to OM's as
"Rotten Potatoes" "Half-baked Potatoes" etc.  But when one of the YL's
is about to come on, the net control usually tells the OM's to clean
up their act, comb their hair, etc., cause here comes a "Sweet Potatoe."
(This is a different question from feelings about Old Phart ragchewing
nets in general...I know how y'all feel about them!)

For that matter, how about the fact that there are no OL's?  I can see
where some people might have a problem with these things, but personally,
I have no problem with being treated "like a lady"...or being called
"one of the guys" if I'm out climbing trees to put up an antenna, or
whatever.  Seems to me, the main thing is the spirit in which it's
intended.  And I've found the best policy is to assume no offense is
meant, unless I have good reason to believe otherwise.  Sure, I've been
in situations where there really was a problem;  I just prefer not to
create one where none exists.

Just my $.02...

Roberta, KB2OOA 			rlt@gummo.att.com
YL and proud of it!  (And sometimes even willing to admit to being
Sweet Potatoe #1600 :-)  Does that make me an Old Phartess??)