HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: joann@ariadne.SLAC.Stanford.EDU (Jo Ann Malina)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.czecho-slovak
Subject: Re: Who am I?
Date: 21 Jul 92 06:46:23 GMT
Reply-To: joann@unixhub.slac.stanford.edu
Organization: SLAC (Stanford Linear Accelerator Center)

In article <36889@ttidca.TTI.COM>, jackson@soldev.tti.com (Dick Jackson) writes:
|> In article <1992Jul20.140038.15907@cbfsb.cb.att.com> motto@cbnewsf.cb.att.com (mary.rita.otto) writes:
|> >know Bohemia was part of Czechoslovakia -- I was taught that it
|> >was a country in its own right.  We still describe ourselves as
|> >being of Bohemian ancestry rather than Czech.
|> 
|> My Czech friend told me that the word and concept of "Bohemia" is
|> alien to the Czechs. (This is guy who lived in C^eki most of his life.)
|> But on my trip there last year there was a big sign with the "B" word on
|> it announcing some festival (in Moravia) -- it may have been there to
|> attract the attention of Austrians since it was near the border.

My family (Slovak) left the area while it was still Austria-Hungary. I never
heard the term "Czech" used at home; there were Slovaks and there were Bohemians.
Maybe the use of "Czech" is an artifact of the creation of Czechoslovakia.
Even people like Dubcek are often referred to as "Czech" when they are ethnically
Slovak.

I first realized the language gap between the descendants of immigrants of
80-100 years ago and the current Czecho-Slovaks when I used the term "ahoj" to
my mother, who had never heard it. I learned it from the films of the C-S
directors of the 1960's. I had grown up on the west side of Chicago, where a lot
of those immigrants had settled and where their descendants still live. We
always had the feeling that those people in Czechoslovakia were just like us,
only trapped behind the Iron Curtain. But it's becoming clear now that the
intervening history on both sides of the Atlantic has changed us all. Talk
about not being able to go home again.
 
*) *) *) *) *) *) *) *) *) *) *)!(* (* (* (* (* (* (* (* (* (* (* (* (*
Jo Ann Malina, Stanford Linear Accelerator Center
joann@unixhub.slac.stanford.edu  -or-  415/926-2846
Neither Stanford nor the DOE would be caught dead with these opinions.
Nor do they consult me when formulating theirs.

Newsgroups: soc.culture.czecho-slovak
From: sommar@enea.se (Erland Sommarskog)
Subject: Re: Czech and Slovak names?
Organization: Enea Data AB
Date: Thu, 23 Jul 1992 17:37:40 GMT

Mats Dahlgren (matsd@LINK.Physchem.KTH.SE) writes:
>The name used here in Sweden (on the news etc) is "Czechkia".

Maybe true for the news sources Mats uses. However, Svenska
Dagbladet, one of the two major morning papers in Sweden seems
to prefer "B|hmen/M{hren" (where "|" = dotted "o" and "{" dotted 
"a"), that is "Bohemia/Moravia" in English. Never have I heard 
nor seen "Tjeckien" which "Czechia" would correspond to in Swedish.

In my ears "Tjeckien" sounds no good at all, but "Tjeckland"
(Czechland) is not that bad. In English "Czekhy" wouldn't be
that bad after all.
-- 
Erland Sommarskog - ENEA Data, Stockholm - sommar@enea.se
Dabras Laiks!
From: rfanta@cea.berkeley.edu (Richard Fanta)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.czecho-slovak
Subject: Re: Who am I?
Date: 24 Jul 92 17:16:21
Organization: CEA @ UC Berkeley, Berkeley, CA, USA.
	<1992Jul20.140038.15907@cbfsb.cb.att.com> <36889@ttidca.TTI.COM>
	<4766@unixhub.SLAC.Stanford.EDU>
	<1992Jul21.095659.20204@EE.Surrey.Ac.UK> <25090@sophia.inria.fr>
	<1992Jul23.094426.12318@EE.Surrey.Ac.UK>
NNTP-Posting-Host: 128.32.154.44
In-reply-to: g.matas@ee.surrey.ac.uk's message of 23 Jul 92 09:44:26 GMT

In article <1992Jul23.094426.12318@EE.Surrey.Ac.UK> g.matas@ee.surrey.ac.uk (George Matas) writes:
Path: agate!ames!olivea!uunet!mcsun!uknet!uos-ee!ee.surrey.ac.uk!g.matas
   From: g.matas@ee.surrey.ac.uk (George Matas)
   Newsgroups: soc.culture.czecho-slovak
   Date: 23 Jul 92 09:44:26 GMT
   References: <1992Jul19.034918.9982@vpnet.chi.il.us> <40295@ogicse.ogi.edu> <1992Jul20.140038.15907@cbfsb.cb.att.com> <36889@ttidca.TTI.COM> <4766@unixhub.SLAC.Stanford.EDU> <1992Jul21.095659.20204@EE.Surrey.Ac.UK> <25090@sophia.inria.fr>
   Sender: news@EE.Surrey.Ac.UK
   Organization: University of Surrey, Guildford, England
   Lines: 25

   (Konrad Weigl) writes:
   |> However, the fact that about 2.5-3 million people of german origin|> lived in the western part of Czechoslovakia up to WWII, descendants of immigrants |> dating back to the 12th century, I believe; they used the term Boehmen a|> lot, so that may also have furthered the use of the word Bohemia.
       I agree that German merchants spread the term (Bohemia, Boehmen). But I
   think it has nothing to do with the 2.5-3 million people. German merchants
   and craftsmen started to settle in towns in Bohemia very early (12th
   century is as a good guess as I can provide). Majority of the ancestors
   of the '2.5-3 million'
   colonised deserted parts of Bohemia in mid-17th cent. after the 30-year war
   when 1. 1/3 of the original population died 2. Czech nobility was almost 
   anihilated and 3. strong germanization started. At this time, the term 
   Bohemia was well known.

   |> (The Charles University in Prague is the oldest german university at all,|> not Heidelberg, as is often claimed)
      What does make a university german? It's true that after it was founded
   in 1348, German was the official language. But in 1409 the faculty held a
   vote to give Czech equal status. I think that those German masters who

[...my memory is a bit foggy, but...]

Yes, in fact it was Jan Hus who was also the Proctor of Charles
University at the time that pushed for this.  I can't remember whether
Czech replaced German or was given equal status.  Nonetheless, this
caused a massive German exodus.

   didn't like the decision left the university and founded a new university
   in Germany (perhaps Heidelberg ?).
   |> 

I remember reading about this, but Heidelburg doesn't sound right.  I
think there's another German University that's older.

    George (Jirka) Matas

Rick Fanta
--
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Rick Fanta			e-mail: rfanta@ssl.berkeley.edu
Center EUV Astrophysics		
University of California   	"She said that she was working for the ABC News,
2150 Kittredge Street		 it was as much of the alphabet as she knew how to use..."
Berkeley, CA 94720			-Elvis Costello "King of America"
Newsgroups: soc.culture.czecho-slovak
From: paco@cs.rice.edu (Paul Havlak)
Subject: Re: Another Name Request
Reply-To: Paul Havlak <paco@cs.rice.edu>
Organization: Center for Research on Parallel Computations
Date: Wed, 22 Jul 1992 18:11:18 GMT

In article <23267@alice.att.com> rjs@alice.att.com (Bob Safranek) writes:
>	I am looking for any information on either the Safranek or
>	Spevacek families. I don't know of any other Safranek's or
>	Spevacek's in the US (other than my immediate family)

>	I believe that the grandparents on both sides came over 
>	around the turn of the century.

Library research can be helpful, at least in figuring out where
exactly they came from.  One of the national Czech heritage
organizations collected passenger lists and republished them.  There
are some gaps due to Allied bombing of Bremen (a main departure point)
during WW II, and the Great Galveston Hurricane of 1900 (Galveston
being a main port of entry).

But what they have is sorted according to port of entry, grouped into
large time spans of a couple of decades, then sorted by last name.
The book I found is:

	Czech Immigration Passenger Lists
	Leo Baca, 1983
	Lib. Congress # E 184.B67 B32 1983

If you know roughly where your granparents settled, you can look up
their likely ports of entry and go on from there.  The passenger lists
usually include a town of origin.

My apologies to all the Slovaks if they are excluded from the book.

Regards,
Paul
--
Paul Havlak			Dept. of Computer Science
Graduate Student		Rice University, Houston TX 77251-1892
PFC/ParaScope projects		(713) 527-8101 x2738 	paco@cs.rice.edu
From: g.matas@ee.surrey.ac.uk (George Matas)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.czecho-slovak
Subject: Re: Who am I?
Date: 23 Jul 92 09:44:26 GMT
Organization: University of Surrey, Guildford, England

In article <25090@sophia.inria.fr>, weigl@sibelius.inria.fr (Konrad Weigl) writes:
|> However, the fact that about 2.5-3 million people of german origin
|> lived in the western part of Czechoslovakia up to WWII, descendants of immigrants 
|> dating back to the 12th century, I believe; they used the term Boehmen a
|> lot, so that may also have furthered the use of the word Bohemia.
    I agree that German merchants spread the term (Bohemia, Boehmen). But I
think it has nothing to do with the 2.5-3 million people. German merchants
and craftsmen started to settle in towns in Bohemia very early (12th
century is as a good guess as I can provide). Majority of the ancestors
of the '2.5-3 million'
colonised deserted parts of Bohemia in mid-17th cent. after the 30-year war
when 1. 1/3 of the original population died 2. Czech nobility was almost 
anihilated and 3. strong germanization started. At this time, the term 
Bohemia was well known.

|> (The Charles University in Prague is the oldest german university at all,
|> not Heidelberg, as is often claimed)
   What does make a university german? It's true that after it was founded
in 1348, German was the official language. But in 1409 the faculty held a
vote to give Czech equal status. I think that those German masters who
didn't like the decision left the university and founded a new university
in Germany (perhaps Heidelberg ?).
|> 

 George (Jirka) Matas
From: tmarvan@sdcc3.ucsd.edu (Thomas Marvan)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.czecho-slovak
Subject: Re: Project on national conflict
Date: 27 Jul 92 18:29:25 GMT
Organization: University of California, San Diego

In article <25530@sophia.inria.fr> weigl@sibelius.inria.fr (Konrad Weigl) writes:
>RE: Vaclav Havel.
>
>Someone mentioned him a few postings back (Poet for president).
>
>I can see him personally as a future President of Europe.
>Simply because he is NOT a classical politician... 



Now that would be interesting! The only problem is, who would
eventually be his successor?  The office of the President of the
United States was to some degree fashioned in such a way with the
intention that George Washington would be the nation's first elected
leader. Would the European community - or the equivalent of the
Founding fathers of the new Europe - do the same? If so, then my
original question remains: whence Havel's successor?



Tom Marvan.
From: nance@cbnewsd.cb.att.com (nancy.l.colucci)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.czecho-slovak
Subject: Re: Request info on Stasny name.
Date: 21 Jul 92 13:56:25 GMT
Article-I.D.: cbnewsd.1992Jul21.135625.18553
Organization: AT&T

In article <45419@shamash.cdc.com> slc@a2.cim.cdc.com (Steve Chesney x4662) writes:
>I would like to know more about the name Stasny (meaning "happy").  A 
>Bunch of diacriticals belong over letters, it pronounces close to
>"Chesney" with a soft 's'.

Are you sure it isn't S^tastny ??

-Nance
-- 
Nance Colucci  *^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*  | Discussions welcomed. 
att!ihlpk!colucci                               | Trollers discouraged.
Newsgroups: soc.culture.czecho-slovak
From: pal@sei.cmu.edu (Phyllis Lewis)
Subject: request for maps
Organization: Software Engineering Institute
Date: Mon, 27 Jul 1992 12:22:51 GMT


A recent post requested information on purchasing maps of Czecho-Slovakia in
the U.S.  I am a member of the "Czechoslovak Genealogical Society" ($10 for
a one year individual membership - and worth the price).  The Society has
maps of various types (and books) available for purchase.  I don't have a
list of what they have available, but I'm sure if you write to them, they'll
send you a list.

	Czechoslovak Genealogical Society
	P. O. Box 16225
	St. Paul, MN 55116

I've only been reading this bboard for a week, so I don't know if anyone has
talked about the Czechoslovak Genealogical Society.  If so, I apologize.  If
not, here goes:

Since I live in Pennsylvania, I don't get as much from the society as those
who live closer to St. Paul, MN, but I feel that the $10 I spend for
membership is well worth the money.  As a member, you can attend the
quarterly meetings of the society and participate at any level that you
choose.  You also get a copy of their quarterly newsletter.  This alone is
worth the $10.  The copy that came to hand when I was looking for the
address is the Fall1991 copy; 20 pages full of information such as articles
entitled "Old Czech Measures and Weights", "Let's Talk Family History",
"Czech Connection", CGS Library News (as part of the Minnesota Genelogical
Society Library, they maintain what is said to be a wonderful source of
material on Czecho-Slovakia, including all but 4 telephone directories for
Czechoslovakia), book reviews and queries from members.

Last October I attended their 2nd Czechoslovak Cultural/Genealogical
Conference in St. Paul - it was wonderful!  I came home with a wealth of
informaton not only about researching in Czechoslovakia and in the U.S., but
of history of the country and the culture, 6 books relating to researching in
Czechoslovakia and the U.S. and history (including one in which my second
cousin is pictured coming off the boat at Ellis Island), contacts with
people who are interested in the same part of Slovakia as I.  

While I'm at it, my grandparents are from eastern Slovakia:  Boltun from
Porostov, Gliganic(h) from Nizna Ribnica, Mihaly from Obysovce (near Presov)
and Twerdok (spelling?) from "Also Olsa" or "Also Also" - we were able to
get my grandparents' marriage records from the church and the county, also
one of my uncle's death entry from the church and my grandmother's name is
spelled differently (Twerdzak, Twerdok, Twerdiak) on each record, as is her
"hometown".

Thanks for patiently reading all of this.  I hope the map requester will
contact the CGS.

Phyllis Boltun Lewis
From: tmarvan@sdcc3.ucsd.edu (Thomas Marvan)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.czecho-slovak
Subject: Re: Czech and Slovak names?
Date: 25 Jul 92 04:07:23 GMT
Organization: University of California, San Diego

In article <4835@unixhub.SLAC.Stanford.EDU> esr@unixhub.SLAC.Stanford.EDU (Edwin S. Russell) writes:
>Some years ago when I was first beginning to do some genealogical research in  
>what is now Czechoslovakia I attended a seminar session which included some  
>brief historical background as it relates to genealogy.  While I don't have  
>the notes in front of me at the moment, my recollection is that the western  
>most province, which has been called Bohemia in English, is what is referred  
>to as C^echy (Czech lands).  The middle province is Morava, Moravia in  
>English.  However, the Czech language is spoken in both provinces.  
                 

Yes, but do not Moravians have some special words or sayings
distinct to that part of the country? That is, whilst they speak
Czech, they do have other words for certain items, just like
speakers of Australian English, for example, use a different
venacular (and I'm not talking of accent here) than speakers of
American English.


Am I making sense? Anyone know of any specicfic and unique Moravian
usages? When I was last in Prague, as a kid ten years ago, I vaguely
recall my grandmother, who is from Moravia, pronouncing the word "sauce" 
just like the English, but apparently, the "Bohemian" way of saying
it is different.


I know I'm babbling, but does someone know what I'm talking
about...?




Tom Marvan
From: rjs@alice.att.com (Bob Safranek)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.czecho-slovak
Subject: Another Name Request
Date: 21 Jul 92 22:19:27 GMT
Article-I.D.: alice.23267
Reply-To: rjs@alice.att.com (Bob Safranek)
Organization: AT&T, Bell Labs


	Here is yet another name/backgroud request...

	I am looking for any information on either the Safranek or
	Spevacek families. I don't know of any other Safranek's or
	Spevacek's in the US (other than my immediate family)

	I believe that the grandparents on both sides came over 
	around the turn of the century.

	Any and all help would be appreciated!

		Bob
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
   Bob Safranek                                 rjs@alice.att.com
   AT&T Bell Labs
   Signal Processing Research Dept
   Murray Hill, NJ
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------`
From: tmarvan@sdcc3.ucsd.edu (Thomas Marvan)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.czecho-slovak
Subject: Re: Cesi,  kde jste kdo?
Date: 27 Jul 92 18:23:44 GMT
Organization: University of California, San Diego

In article <1992Jul26.225320.4935@Cadence.COM> synek@Cadence.COM (Kamil Synek) writes:
>In article <76340001@hpspdla.spd.HP.COM> georgem@hpspdla.spd.HP.COM (George Mansfeld) writes:
>>	Ahoj Cesi,
>>
>>Myslim, ze bychom meli psat taky chvili Cesky.
>>
>>Rika se ze Cecha najdes vsude.
>>Ozvete se, kde jste kdo.
>>
>>Jirka
>
>Ahoj,
>To je pravda.  Ja bydlim v Bay Area (Santa Cruz).  V Californiy jsem od
>'69 a to je 23 let.  Moji rodice jsou z Moravy (u Ulomouce) ale ja jsem
>vyrustal na Slovensku, v Kosicich, a pak v Californiy.  Cesky jsem uz
>nepsal hodne let tak prominte moje chyby.


Well, I have almost never written Czech, so I hope you'll excuse me
for writing in English.   

My name is Tom (Toma's<) Marvan, and I have been studying at the
University of California, San Diego, since January working on my
Master's degree. I was born in Prague, but "left" when only 3 weeks
old, in 1968, for the United States, then Australia, where I grew up
with my immdediate family. Of course my relatives, for the most
part, still reside in Prague. Naturally, I hope to visit them again
as soon as possible...      





Tom Marvan.
From: stefanis@ecst.csuchico.edu (Lab Boy)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.czecho-slovak
Subject: Mangeling names and still looking for relatives
Date: 24 Jul 92 18:28:44 GMT
Organization: California State University, Chico

I am still looking for distant family members. I have no clue what
Stefanisko was before it came through Ellis Island. Now with the female
ending information, does anyone know any Stefanisko or Stefaniskova's
out there. I know that there is a large consentration of them on the
East coast of the USA around PA and NY. PA especially, coal minning was
the thing to do when they came over. My dad is from McAdoo, a small town
near Hazelton. His name is Michael, as was his father's (Michile) and I
have reason to belive that it was his fater's too. (Michael is a very 
popular name in my family.) From what I have found, most of us are named
Joe, Mike, or Nick. Any way there are new readers every day, so help a poor
slav out, look through your phonebooks.
______   
|\   |\      Nick Stefanisko (stefanis@cscihp.ecst.csuchico.edu) 
| |--+-| 
|-+---\|     "Oodal-lada oodal-lada" 
 \|____|                            --Thomas Dolby
From: georgem@hpspdla.spd.HP.COM (George Mansfeld)
Date: Wed, 22 Jul 1992 00:25:58 GMT
Subject: Cesi,  kde jste kdo?
Organization: HP Stanford Park - Palo Alto, CA
Newsgroups: soc.culture.czecho-slovak






	Ahoj Cesi,


Myslim, ze bychom meli psat taky chvili Cesky.


Rika se ze Cecha najdes vsude.
Ozvete se, kde jste kdo.


Jirka
Newsgroups: soc.culture.czecho-slovak
From: jac54@cas.org ()
Subject: Re: Czech Fruit Dumblings (was: Maybe this will be a FAQ)
Organization: Chemical Abstracts Service, Columbus, Ohio
Date: Mon, 27 Jul 1992 14:46:45 GMT

In article <36117@sdcc12.ucsd.edu> tmarvan@sdcc3.ucsd.edu (Thomas Marvan) writes:
>In article <1992Jul22.160735.9355@cas.org> jac54@cas.org writes:
>>
>>      For those of us without any direct connections to this region,
>>      could somebody supply the names of books or other sources of
>>      background information on Czecho-Slovakia and the surrounding
>>      areas?  Sources on history, culture, folk culture, current
>>      economic and political conditions would be welcome.
>>
>>      Alec Chambers
>>
>>      P.S. a useful cookery book would be welcome.
>                  ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ Yes, definitely.
>
>
>...and I wonder if someone could help me by providing the recipe for
>Czech fruit dumplings. In particular here in the United States,
>which flour is the most appropriate to use. When living in
>Australia, I used "Continental Flour" but when I asked for this in
>some stores here in San Diego, I was met with blank stares.
>
>Pomoc!
>
>
>Tom Marvan.

	Be very careful with this one.  The compositions of flours in the
	U.S vary greatly, so their cooking properties also vary.  If you
	post a recommendation, be specific about geographical areas.

	Alec Chambers.
Newsgroups: soc.culture.czecho-slovak
From: supah@iastate.edu (Sylvester C Upah)
Subject: Re: Who am I?
Organization: Iowa State University, Ames IA
Date: Mon, 27 Jul 1992 22:19:00 GMT

In <1992Jul20.164853.19794@ecst.csuchico.edu> stefanis@ecst.csuchico.edu (Lab Boy) writes:

>In article <1992Jul20.140038.15907@cbfsb.cb.att.com> motto@cbnewsf.cb.att.com (mary.rita.otto) writes:
>[...]
>you can add Pokorny to your Bohiminan list, one was my best friend from

I went to school with a Pokorny as well.  You can add my name to the list
-- 
Sly Upah                 |  Programming Consultant
supah@iastate.edu        |  Iowa State University Computation Center
Newsgroups: soc.culture.czecho-slovak
From: kyle@Csli.Stanford.EDU (Kyle Wohlmut)
Subject: Re: Czech Fruit Dumblings (was: Maybe this will be a FAQ)
Followup-To: soc.culture.czecho-slovak, alt.dumplings
Summary: How to build a Fruit DumPling
Organization: Rocking Pig Enterprises
Date: Tue, 28 Jul 1992 21:28:21 GMT

As promised, the recipie for those yummy fruit dumplings.  Ah, used to
be my favourite dish as a lad... had them for dinner on every
birthday... (BTW this is pretty much as the recipie appears in Joza
Brizova's 'Varime Zdrave Chutne,' a book that was mentioned in a
recent posting...)
                           
'Farina' Fruit Dumplings (Testo Z Krupicove Kase)

1 1/2 cups milk                  1 - 1 1/2 cups instantized flour
3/4 cup farina                                   (try Wondra Flour)
1/4 tsp salt                     1 - 1 1/2 cups fruit (I think plums
1 egg                                            work best)
1 tbs sugar

Cook milk and farina for 5 minutes to make a porridge.  Cool.  Add
salt, egg, sugar and enough flour to make a firm dough.  Break off
pieces and wrap around fruit (dough casing should be about 1/8 inch
thick), sealing well so fruit juices do not escape.  Drop into boiling
water and cook for 5-7 minutes, turning once.  Remove with a skimmer
and tear open.  
	I reccomend dousing them with butter and cinnammon-sugar, but
others reccomend ground poppy seeds, stale grated gingerbread, or
cottage cheese (yuck!).

--
 /'''     Kyle Wohlmut -- Rocking Pig Enterprises
 c-OO     'Heute back ich, morgen brau ich, und uebermorgen hol ich
    \      mir die Koenigin ihr Kind.  Ach, wie gut dass niemand
   -       weiss, dass ich kyle@csli.STANFORD.EDU heiss.'

Newsgroups: soc.culture.czecho-slovak
From: tom@bim.itc.univie.ac.at (Tom Kovar)
Subject: Re: Request info on Stasny name.
Organization: Inst.of Theor.Chemistry,Univ.of Vienna,Austria
X-Newsreader: Tin 1.1 PL3
Date: Wed, 22 Jul 1992 11:42:39 GMT

nance@cbnewsd.cb.att.com (nancy.l.colucci) writes:
: In article <45419@shamash.cdc.com> slc@a2.cim.cdc.com (Steve Chesney x4662) writes:
: >I would like to know more about the name Stasny (meaning "happy").  A
: >Bunch of diacriticals belong over letters, it pronounces close to
: >"Chesney" with a soft 's'.
: 
: Are you sure it isn't S^tastny ??

  The only proper original form of this name (really meaning "happy") is

  v      '
  St'astny

					Tom the Bohemian :)