HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: merlyn@iwarp.intel.com (Randal L. Schwartz)
Newsgroups: fj.mail-lists.x-window
Subject: Re: more on gcc2.1 X11R5pl10 sun3/sunos4.1 sun4/sunos4.1.2
Date: 16 Apr 92 13:08:09 GMT
Distribution: fj
Organization: Stonehenge; netaccess via Intel, Beaverton, Oregon, USA

Date: Thu, 16 Apr 1992 08:57:29 GMT
Message-Id: <1992Apr16.085729.21475@iWarp.intel.com>
Newsgroups: comp.windows.x

In article <CHUCK.PHILLIPS.92Apr14072408@halley.FtCollinsCO.NCR.COM>, Chuck.Phillips@FtCollinsCO (Chuck Phillips) writes:
| >>>>> On 9 Apr 92 18:37:45 GMT, merlyn@iWarp.intel.com (Randal L. Schwartz) said:
| 
| Randal> X11R5pl10 compiled with gcc2.1 on the sparc under sunos4.1.2 compiles
| Randal> and installs fine and executes fine, *except*...
| 
| Randal> binaries compiled under "cc" won't run!
| 
| Randal> [ important part for gnu.gcc.help readers: ]
| Randal> apparently, gcc compiles code that calls routines normally found in
| Randal> libgcc.a.
| 
| Add -L/your/path/goes/here -lgcc to your Sun cc CFLAGS, and/or keep the gcc
| versions of the libraries in the gcc lib directory so only those using gcc
| will get gcc compiled versions.
| 
| Alternately, you can merge libgcc into libX11.a and link staticly.  You may
| (or may not) run into problems creating a dynamic link libX11 with libgcc
| merged in.  (Please post if you accomplish a working dynamic version of
| libgcc, merged or not.)

Neither of these solutions addresses either of the following *important*
issues:

(1) I have a whole bunch of compiled X code out there.  The moment I
installed the gcc-compiled shared libraries: >poof<... no more running
code.  This is rude, crude, and socially unacceptable.

(2) I have naive users that take packages off the net, drop them into
their directory, and try to say "make".  If I have to teach each one
about how to make it say "CC=gcc" somewhere (which doesn't even work
on some of the packages), it'll quickly become a full-time job for me
(and I'm already 120% booked -- sorry!).  Yes, if they use Imakefiles,
it'll work fine (because gcc will be selected), but I have seen a
number of PD packages that run from Makefiles directly.

RMS is aware of the issues, and is looking into the problem (according
to private mail).  Until then, he agrees:

*do not use gcc2 to compile the shared libraries*

You can do this by *not* defining gcc2 (although you lose a few other
cutesy things and don't get the -O2 switch) since pre-gcc2 didn't have
-pic so the shared libraries get compiled with cc.  Or you can do this
by skipping gcc altogether (my option for now, sigh).

I'll wait for the real patch someday, but I won't be waiting without
X11R5pl10 :-).

Just another X hacker,
-- 
/=Randal L. Schwartz, Stonehenge Consulting Services (503)777-0095 ==========\
| on contract to Intel's iWarp project, Beaverton, Oregon, USA, Sol III      |
| merlyn@iwarp.intel.com ...!any-MX-mailer-like-uunet!iwarp.intel.com!merlyn |
\=Cute Quote: "Intel: putting the 'backward' in 'backward compatible'..."====/
From: bobt@boa.mitron.tek.com (Bob Toole)
Newsgroups: fj.mail-lists.x-window
Subject: Re: Can C++ / X empower us to make great apps for the 90's?
Date: 8 Apr 92 22:31:09 GMT
Distribution: fj
Organization: Workstation Div., Supermicro Systems Group, Sony Corporation

Message-Id: <9204081637.AA12159@boa.MITRON.TEK.COM>
Date: Wed,  8 Apr 92 09:37:22 PDT
             <1992Apr8.060832.9260@sfc.sony.com>

> How does one do true Object Oriented GUI development under X and C++?

I consider the term "true Object Oriented" more difficult to define than
"true religion".  And maybe about as useful. :-)

However, you did go on to clarify some of your complaints,
and I share your concerns.  Moreover, you praise NeXTstep, which I am
not familiar with.

I assume that this is software that comes on the NeXT workstation. 
If not, how do I get in contact with someone who will talk to me about it?
For that matter, if it is NeXT, do you have an 800 number or something that
will save me a half-hour search through old advertisements / product lit ?

Thanx

Bob Toole
bobt@goldfish.mitron.tek.com
From: merlyn@iwarp.intel.com (Randal L. Schwartz)
Newsgroups: fj.mail-lists.x-window
Subject: more on X11R5pl10 gcc2.1 sunos4.1 sun3 blah blah blah
Date: 8 Apr 92 09:13:41 GMT
Distribution: fj
Organization: Stonehenge; netaccess via Intel, Beaverton, Oregon, USA

Date: Wed, 8 Apr 1992 04:06:27 GMT
Message-Id: <1992Apr8.040627.17073@iWarp.intel.com>
Newsgroups: comp.windows.x

OK, the problem with the sparcs is I forgot to set "teenyversion" to
2, so I didn't get the SunPost411FCSLd defined.  Once that happened,
everything comes up like a champ (well, mostly :-).  (Thanks to the
few emails I got that pointed that out.)

HOWEVER.

My sun3's are all at 4.1 (no patches, no laughs please).  If I set the
version to 4, 1, 0, everything compiles and installs fine, but the
very first thing I try (startx) fails in xinit, looking for XtMalloc
(again!).  Ugh.  So I think "hey, it worked for the sparc, maybe I can
just do it on the sun3", so I leave major/minor/teeny alone and define
SunPost411FCSLd.  Ugh.  Now I know why it's not defined... signal 11
on *every* ld invocation!

So, what's the scoop?  I cannot compile X11R5pl10 on sunos 4.1?  Why
didn't it just say that somewhere to save me the hassle?

Or am I missing something REALLY obvious?

Just another frustrated X11R5pl10 compiler,
-- 
/=Randal L. Schwartz, Stonehenge Consulting Services (503)777-0095 ==========\
| on contract to Intel's iWarp project, Beaverton, Oregon, USA, Sol III      |
| merlyn@iwarp.intel.com ...!any-MX-mailer-like-uunet!iwarp.intel.com!merlyn |
\=Cute Quote: "Intel: putting the 'backward' in 'backward compatible'..."====/
From: Steven_S._Kang.ESCP10@xerox.com
Newsgroups: fj.mail-lists.x-window
Subject: duplicate keystrokes in R5
Date: 9 Apr 92 01:43:11 GMT
Distribution: fj
Organization: Workstation Div., Supermicro Systems Group, Sony Corporation

X-Ns-Transport-Id: 0000AA00147352C72DA0
Date: 	Wed, 8 Apr 1992 13:35:20 PDT
Reply-To: Steven_S._Kang.ESCP10@xerox.com
Message-Id: <" 8-Apr-92 13:35:20 PDT".*.Steven_S._Kang.ESCP10@Xerox.com>

All,
	Ever since I've been using R5 with all of the 10 patches applied to it,
as I start typing fast I start getting duplicate characters.  Strange.. I'm
running Suntools on another screen and I don't have this problem there? Has
anyone seen this happen?
-Steve
From: mcmorran@ll.mit.edu (Roy McMorran)
Newsgroups: fj.mail-lists.x-window
Subject: Remote Display Font Problem with Soft PC on HP9000/730
Date: 9 Apr 92 22:36:24 GMT
Distribution: fj
Organization: MIT Lincoln Laboratory, Lexington, MA

Date: Thu, 9 Apr 92 15:12:40 GMT
Message-Id: <1992Apr9.151240.10339@ll.mit.edu>
Newsgroups: comp.sys.hp,comp.windows.x,comp.windows.open-look,comp.sys.sun.misc,comp.unix.msdos,ll.bboard

Advance apologies if I've posted this to inappropriate groups; my problem 
seems at least tangentially related to all these groups.  I hope someone 
out there can help me out.

I've accquired Soft PC for my Hewlett-Packard 9000/730.  Soft PC is a
_software_ IBM-PC/AT (286) emulator for unix and runs under X.  The product 
works well on the local display.  However if I try to run it on a remote
X display I am having problems.  It is unable to locate the fonts it needs.

The remote machine in question is a Sun SparcStation running Open Windows.
I have copied the fonts from my HP over to the Sun.  I put them in
/usr/openwin/lib/fonts which is where xset q says it will look for them.
However when I invoke SoftPC it claims it can't open the font files.  I
suspect the problem is the format of the font files themselves.  As installed
on the HP they are *.scf (Server Compressed Format?).  Is this format
device (server) dependent thus making these files meaningless to the Sun?
All the fonts on the Sparc seem to be in a different format (*.ff or *.fb)
I'm afraid that I'm somewhat clueless as to how to convert between formats
(or if its necessary/possible) other than bdftosnf (which seems irrelevant).

I've tried converting them to *.snf before copying them over but that 
didn't seem to help.  I've also tried moving them to /usr/lib/X11/fonts/misc
which is where the live on the HP.  No luck.

BTW I can run SpC on a remote _HP_ display if I copy the fonts to 
remote_hp_machine:/usr/lib/X11/fonts/misc.

Thanks for any help you might give.  Email me and I will summarize if
there is interest.  My problem seems to relate to the general issue of 
how to copy X window system fonts from the HP to the Sun so I'm directing 
followups to comp.windows.x.  Thanks.
-- 
Roy McMorran = mcmorran@ll.mit.edu // Now it's over I'm dead and I haven't
MIT Lincoln Laboratory             \\ done anything that I want, or I'm 
244 Wood Street B261               // still alive and there's nothing
Lexington, MA 02173                \\ I want to do...         -TMBG
From: nazgul@alphalpha.com (Kee Hinckley)
Newsgroups: fj.mail-lists.x-window
Subject: Re: Question for net.views column in UNIX Today!
Date: 7 Apr 92 12:56:50 GMT
Distribution: fj
Organization: none

Date: 6 Apr 92 03:43:23 GMT
Message-Id: <1992Apr6.034323.27991@alphalpha.com>
Newsgroups: comp.sys.dec,comp.windows.x,comp.unix.xenix.sco,comp.unix.sysv386,comp.windows.misc,comp.unix.msdos,comp.unix.admin,comp.os.misc,comp.unix.questions,comp.sys.hp

In article <1992Apr1.211848.21179@dsd.es.com> pmartz@bambam.dsd.es.com (Paul Martz) writes:
>In article <1992Apr1.161010.11988@auto-trol.com>, marbru@auto-trol.com (Martin Brunecky) writes:
>>   The end user is tired of Unix promises. He wants stability, not 
>>   a permanent revolution.
>
>The same thing could be said of the PC world. First CPM, then early
>revs of DOS, then DOS 3.0 (finally something useable), DOS 5.0, the
>Presentation Manager, now Windows NT... You call this stability?
More stable than 15 different Unix platforms with 15 different sets
of #ifdefs and 15 different install scripts and 15 different types
of customer support questions, and in many cases even more stable
than two sucessive releases on the same Unix platform.

-- 
Alfalfa Software, Inc.          |       Poste:  The EMail for Unix
nazgul@alfalfa.com              |       Send Anything... Anywhere
617/497-2922                    |       info@alfalfa.com

I'm not sure which upsets me more: that people are so unwilling to accept
responsibility for their own actions, or that they are so eager to regulate
everyone else's.
From: dwex@cbnewsj.cb.att.com (david.e.wexelblat)
Newsgroups: fj.mail-lists.x-window
Subject: Motif text/text-field cursor problems
Date: 12 Apr 92 20:02:25 GMT
Distribution: fj
Organization: AT&T

Date: 12 Apr 92 17:15:17 GMT
Message-Id: <1992Apr12.171517.20400@cbnewsj.cb.att.com>
Newsgroups: comp.windows.x.motif,comp.windows.x,comp.unix.sysv386

I did look in the FAQ for answers, but I didn't see anything relevent.

Configuration: i486, SVR4, X11R5 (X386 1.2), Motif 1.1.3

Under X11R4 (X386 1.1b), the insertion-point cursor was never visible in
text and text-field widgets, regardless of resource settings.

Now, with X11R5, with the same Motif applications, the insertion-point
cursor does show up.  The problem is, it leaves rat-droppings all over
my widgets when I move the insertion point.  I have verified that all of
the old libraries are being loaded (via ldd).  The same thing happens if
I rebuild the application with the X11R5 libraries.

I'm guessing this is some kind of server issue, since it shows up with the
old binaries.  Does anyone know how to fix this?  Or turn the cursor back
off (no cursor is preferable to 'I' and '^' rabbit droppings :-<) - without
having to edit every applications app-defaults file, if possible?

Any help that can be provided is appreciated.  This is disturbing enough
that I may not use X11R5.


-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
David Wexelblat             | dwex@mtgzfs3.att.com  | I asked her her name.
AT&T Bell Laboratories      | ...!att!mtgzfs3!dwex  |   She said her name was
200 Laurel Ave - 4B-421     |                       |      'Maybe'
Middletown, NJ  07748       | (908) 957-5871        | --Damn Yankees
From: ahsiung@bbn.com (Anita Hsiung)
Newsgroups: fj.mail-lists.x-window
Subject: Re: Motif vs Open-look vs X
Date: 8 Apr 92 05:38:03 GMT
Distribution: fj
Organization: Bolt Beranek and Newman Inc., Cambridge MA

Date: 7 Apr 1992 23:42:22 GMT
Message-Id: <ku4cquINNgls@news.bbn.com>
Newsgroups: comp.windows.x

mark@telesys.ncsc.navy.MIL (Williams) writes:
>>  We are planning to build a large windows application
>>  and would like suggestions on the following     
>>  topics:

My responses are off the top of my head and opinions are mine only...

>>    1. What platform should we select? (Motif, open-look, basic X)

X Athena Widgets -- It's free, there is already a large amount
	of documentation (quality is questionable..), probably very
	portable.  Pretty flexible.  However, it doesn't look the
	greatest.

Motif/Open Look -- Commercial, so you have to pay.  With this payment,
	you would receive probably more support in terms of
	consulting.  They both look nice (I like Motif better) with
	more 3-D effects, documentation is confusing (different
	authors say different things and there are outright errors in
	many manuals) but if you know what you're doing, it's a little
	bit "easier" and quite flexible.

>>    2. What programming tools are available to assist software 
>>       development in the selected environment?

Hmm..  There are a few packages that help you create user interfaces,
I believe Sun produces one and some other small software companies may
have some, BUT, from what I've heard (I haven't tried any of them) you
have to be a C, UNIX and X expert already to learn them, or the code
they create is too muddled for use, or by the time you learn how to
use them, you could have created all the code by typing in the first
difficult widget, then using cut-and-paste.

>>    3. Other pointers/suggestions for windows programming
>>       development.

Go slowly.  Create one parent widget, compile, look at it.  Add one
child, compile, look at it.  Add one more child, etc...  After that,
cut-and-paste!

Good luck!
 Anita 

---------------------------------------------------------------------------
| Anita Hsiung       |                                                    |
| ahsiung@bbn.com    | "Roads?  Where we're going, we don't need roads!"  |
| BBN, Inc.          |                               Doc Brown            |
| Canoga Park, CA    |                                                    |
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: sns@deimos.caltech.edu (Sam Southard Jr.)
Newsgroups: fj.mail-lists.x-window
Subject: Resizing windows under DECwindows
Date: 8 Apr 92 02:16:17 GMT
Distribution: fj
Organization: Caltech Astronomy Department

Date: Tue, 7 Apr 1992 20:02:53 GMT
Message-Id: <1992Apr7.200253.24114@cco.caltech.edu>
Newsgroups: comp.windows.x

I have an application which needs to be able to resize a window after it
receives an XConfigureEvent.  For example, the user, via the window manager,
sizes a window to a certain size.  If that window size is not one of some set
of allowed sizes, I need to resize it to the closest allowed size.

I am able to get the first ConfigureNotify event.  Inside my event handler, I
call the XResizeWindow routine to change the window to the new size.  This
works fine on a Sun Running OpenWindows 2.0 or 3.0.  However, I never get the
second ConfigureNotify event if I'm running on a VAXstation running DECwindows.
The window manager also doesn't seem to see it, since the border remains the
same size.  I've also received bug reports from people running public domain
X11R4 on Sun 4s which sound very similar (I can't verify this, since they're
in Australia and I'm in California).

What do I need to do to get the DECwindows window manager to resize the window
under the program's control?  The window involved is a sub-window of the root
window.  What is the general solution (for all types of X11 servers and
window managers)?

-- 

Sam Southard, Jr.
{sns@deimos.caltech.edu|{backbone}!cit-vax!deimos!sns}
From: mahan@tgv.com (Patrick L. Mahan)
Newsgroups: fj.mail-lists.x-window
Subject: Re: Questions about DECWindows under VMS
Date: 10 Apr 92 22:53:26 GMT
Distribution: fj
Organization: Workstation Div., Supermicro Systems Group, Sony Corporation

Date:    Fri, 10 Apr 92 09:04:42 PDT
Message-Id: <920410090442.20e00162@TGV.COM>
X-St-Vmsmail-To: ST%"xpert@expo.lcs.mit.edu"

#
#DECWINDOWS on VAX/VMS 5.4 and upwards is X11R4 compliant
#

No it is not.  Simply check the Intrinsic.h file for the following

	XtSpecificationRelease

Which is not defined until X11R4.  VMS systems that load DECwindows
from the operating system distribution tape DO NOT have X11R4 compliant
libraries.  They are X11R3 compliant.

You must load DECwindows/Motif to obtain X11R4 compliant libraries.  This
is not released along with the operating system.

Patrick L. Mahan

--- TGV Window Washer ------------------------------- Mahan@TGV.COM ---------

Waking a person unnecessarily should not be considered  - Lazarus Long
a capital crime.  For a first offense, that is            From the Notebooks of
							  Lazarus Long
From: dwb@imd.sterling.com (David Boyd)
Newsgroups: fj.mail-lists.x-window
Subject: Re: Question for net.views column in UNIX Today!
Date: 7 Apr 92 10:03:53 GMT
Distribution: fj
Organization: Sterling Software

Date: Mon, 6 Apr 1992 22:50:40 GMT
Message-Id: <1992Apr6.225040.21716@sparky.imd.sterling.com>
Newsgroups: comp.windows.x

In article <STEINARB.92Apr5180433@hemlock.idt.unit.no>, steinarb@idt.unit.no (Steinar Bang) writes:
|> >>>>> On Fri, 3 Apr 1992 13:56:04 GMT, m05751@hypatia.data.st.statoil.no (Bjorn Larsen) said:
|> 
|> > Admittedly, we run OSF Motif on top of X11R4, but we purchase Motif
|> > in source form from OSF directly, and compile and distribute the
|> > software ourselves. Why don't we trust vendors? Blame it on
|> > experience.
|> 
	Amen!!

|> Now, if OSF could donate the Motif widgets and mwm to the X11
|> consortium, then we might see a stable, portable Motif which will run
|> with the MIT Xt out of the box (maybe it does this nowadays).
|> 
	With the exception of one patch to Xt Motif has compiled
out of the box with the generic MIT R4 X since 1.1.  
OSF did require that you have the MIT source patched up current.  The
one additional patch to Xt they provided was not even required as I
recall and OSF was discussing the patch with the consortium.

	I strongly agree on the second point,  that OSF should make
the source FREELY available.



-- 
David W. Boyd	             UUCP:     uunet!sparky!dwb
Sterling Software IMD        INTERNET: dwb@IMD.Sterling.COM
1404 Ft. Crook Rd. South     Phone:    (402) 291-8300 
Bellevue, NE. 68005-2969     FAX:      (402) 291-4362
From: lora@askinc.ask.com (Lora Shirley)
Newsgroups: fj.mail-lists.x-window
Subject: OSF/Motif Devloper's Meeting
Date: 8 Apr 92 18:43:45 GMT
Distribution: fj
Organization: ASK Computer Systems, Inc.

Date: 7 Apr 92 18:07:26 GMT
Message-Id: <1591@askincask.COM>
Newsgroups: comp.windows.x


               OSF/Motif Developers Meeting: April 15

  Please join us at a jointly sponsored meeting of the OSF/Motif
  Developers Group and Drinking Society and the BayCHI OSF/Motif BOF.
  The meeting is at 7:00 PM on Wednesday, April 15.

  The topic for the evening is "Introduction to WCL" (Widget Creation
  Library), presented by Ron Hughes.  Ron Hughes has been active in
  developing X and Motif applications for a number of years.  He is
  currently Manager of X Development at Frame Technology.

  The meeting location is at NCD's facilities, 339 N. Bernardo in 
  Mountain View, directly off of the Central Expressway.
 


  About the Santa Clara Valley OSF/Motif groups:
  *********************************************

  The Silicon Valley OSF/Motif Developers and Drinking Society and
  BayCHI's OSF/Motif BOF (Birds-of-a-Feather) group are two Bay
  area groups that hold (almost) monthly meetings to discuss Motif
  development issues.  The topics discussed include: releases and
  features of the Motif toolkit, X11, UI builders, and products
  developed using Motif.

  Meetings are held on the third Wednesday of the month, at 7pm at
  NCD's facility at 339 N. Bernardo St. in Mountain View.  North
  Bernardo Street is located on the Central Expressway, between
  Mary and Castro Streets.

  There are no membership or admission fees.

  A joint planning committee schedules the meetings.  If you would like to
  discuss a topic of interest to this group, please contact Lora Shirley
  415-335-5288.


  Planned Meeting Dates for First Half of 1992:
  ********************************************

  Wednesday, April 15, 1992

  Wednesday, May 20, 1992

  Wednesday, June 17, 1992
From: kswatek@su19az.ess.harris.com (Ken Swatek)
Newsgroups: fj.mail-lists.x-window
Subject: Re: PC X-Terminal emulations
Date: 7 Apr 92 23:35:27 GMT
Distribution: fj
Organization: Harris (Government Aerospace Systems)

Date: Tue, 7 Apr 1992 17:04:05 GMT
Message-Id: <1992Apr7.170405.13873@trantor.harris-atd.com>
Newsgroups: comp.windows.x

In article 29788@urmel.informatik.rwth-aachen.de, berg@physik.tu-muenchen.de (Stephen R. van den Berg) writes:
>I was wondering, are there any alternatives to the X-View/ PC/TCP combo from
>FTP Inc.?
>
>Specifically, I am looking for an X-Terminal emulation that can run with
>a packet driver under it.
>-- 
>Sincerely,                                berg@messua.informatik.rwth-aachen.de
>           Stephen R. van den Berg (AKA BuGless).    berg@physik.tu-muenchen.de
>
>"Be spontaneous!"



I'm currently using a program called MicroX from Starnet Communications.
It supports 256 color or mono.  With resolutions up to 1024x768.  And
they include networking software (NCSA packet driver & software).  The
cost is only $345 for the 386 version and $195 for the 286 version.

I use olwm for my window manager.  This makes my PC look just like a
Sun.  I use OpenWindow's Deskset tools and Valid's CAE tools.  It all
works great.

For more info you can contact Greg Mudge at Starnet.  His phone number
is (408)739-0881 and his E-mail address is mudge@starnet.com

Good Luck,
Ken
______________________________________________________________________________

Ken Swatek                             INTERNET: kswatek@su19az.ess.harris.com
Harris Corporation                     UUCP:     uunet!su19az!kswatek
Government Aerospace Systems Division  CCMail:   harris.kswatek
Mail Stop: 102-4827                    FAX:      407-727-4016
P.O. Box 94000                         Pager:    407-690-8548 (Digital)
Melbourne, Florida 32902               Voice:    407-727-6081
______________________________________________________________________________