From: dbd@urartu.sdpa.org (David Davidian)
Subject: Libel & Fraud Continues on UseNet
Organization: S.D.P.A. Center for Regional Studies
Date: Mon, 4 Jan 1993 01:34:04 GMT

In article <1993Jan3.113544.2334@news.columbia.edu> vd8@cunixb.cc.columbia.edu 
(Vedat  Dogan) lies: 
  
[VD] In your quotation:
[VD]  
[VD]  what happened to the underlined words with ( ******* ), Mr.Davidian...
[VD] 
[VD]  what happened to the"according to some estimates"?
[VD]  what happened to the "up to"?
[VD]  what happened to the "as well as an unknown number of Turks"?
[VD]  
[VD]  Now, do you understand why you were(are) humiliated?..Now, do you know
[VD]  what I am talking about?
[VD]  
[VD]  I am still asking Mr.Davidian..Will you correct your 'quotation'..

There is nothing to correct!

[DD] Hmm...just where is your quote, in the same paragraph as ...1915... 
[DD] regarding an "unknown number of Turks"! You sir would not only be thrown 
[DD] off of a debating team but most likely would be banned from further 
[DD] competition!
 
[VD] Oooo really..If anyone who does not have the book and wants to check it 
[VD] from the book they may go to library or to the Barnes & Noble bookstores 
[VD] to buy it..  (the Emergence of Modern Turkey,Bernard Lewis,page 356,2nd
[VD] ed.,1968, Oxford Unv. Press)

[VD] You will see how David Davidian twists the facts.. 

I have the book right next to me. On page 356 your quote DOES NOT EXIST! Give
me your FAX number and I will fax it to you. Give me telephone numbers of some
local Boston-area Turks and I will show them both English AND Turkish texts. I
typed in the entire contents of page 356 on my previous posting. I have no idea
what you are talking about, other than you being a liar.

As verification, I will now include the Turkish translation of this same
paragraph from the Turkish Historical Society's translation of the book, which
MATCHES my quote - AND CONTAINS NOTHING ABOUT YOUR "QUOTE"!

"Turkler icin, Ermeni hareketi butun tehditlerin en oldurucusu idi. Fethedilmis
 Sirp, Bulgar, Arnavut ve Yunan topraklanindan, uzak eyaleteri terkederek ve
 imparatorluk sinilarini yurda yaklastirarak, isteksiz de olsa, 
 cekilebilirlerdi. Fakat Kafkaslardan Akdeniz'e kadar butun Asya Turkiye'sinde
 yayilmis olan Ermeniler, Turk yurdunun kalbinde uzaniyorlardi -- ve bu
 topraklari terketmek, bir kirpilma degil, Turk devletinin dagilmasi anlamina
 gerlirdi. Ayrilamaz derecede birbirine karismis Turk ve Ermeni koyleri, 
 yuzyillarca komsuluk birligi icinde yasamislardi. Simde bunlar arasinda
 muthis bir mucadele -- bir bucuk milyon Ermenininin yokoldugu korkunc 1915
 felaketiyle sonuclanan, tek bir anayurdun sahipligi ugruna iki ulus
 arasindaki bir mucadele -- baslamisti." [1]

[1] _Modern Turkiyenin Dogusu_, Bernard Lewis, Ingilizceden ceviren, Dr. Metin
    Kiratli, Turk Tarih Kurumu Yayinlarindan, IV. Seri-Sayi 8, Turk Tarih 
    Kumuru Basimevi, Ankara, 1970, pages 353-354

...and again for reference in MY ENGLISH version we find:
 
DIRECTLY FROM: Second Edition of Bernard Lewis's _The Emergence of Modern 
               Turkey_, 1968, Oxford University Press, London, Oxford, New 
               York, page 356, first full paragraph, 4 1/4" down from the
               top of the page ending at 1 1/4" before the bottom of the page. 

"For the Turks, the Armenian movement was the deadliest of all threats. From 
 the conquered lands of the Serbs, Bulgars, Albanians, and Greeks, they could, 
 however reluctantly, withdraw, abandoning distant provinces and bringing the 
 Imperial frontier nearer home. But the Armenians, stretching across Turkey-in-
 Asia from the Caucasian frontier to the Mediterranean coast, lay in the very
 heart of the Turkish homeland--and to renounce these lands would have meant 
 not the truncation, but the dissolution of the Turkish state. Turkish and 
 Armenian villages, inextricably mixed, had for centuries lived in neighbourly 
 association. Now a desperate struggle between them began a struggle between 
 two nations for the possession of a single homeland, that ended with the 
 terrible holocaust of 1915 when a million and half Armenians perished."


-- 
David Davidian <dbd@urartu.sdpa.org> |"The massacres? Oh well! They merely  
S.D.P.A. Center for Regional Studies | amuse me!"  -Talaat Pasha, architect of 
P.O. Box 382761                      | Turkish the genocide of Armenian people. 
Cambridge, MA 02238                  | (Four Years Beneath the Crescent, p 208)