HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts

> TKD new? No, sorry, I don't think so. TKD is one of the oldest martial arts 
> in Asia, tracing its origins from the 1st C. BC or earlier.

Well, no, not really.  Martial arts can be traced back in Korea that far, but
it is doubtful the ancient Korean martial arts have all that much in common
with TKD.  And the name TKD has only been in use since about 1957.  So, yes,
TKD is relatively new.  Of course being new says nothing about effectiveness.
IMHO, it actually could mean it is more effective than many older MAs.

Ray
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
From: hurd@fraser.sfu.ca (Peter L. Hurd)
Subject: Re: Finishing techniques (M. Malmros)
Organization: Simon Fraser University, Burnaby, B.C., Canada
Date: Mon, 14 Dec 1992 04:31:00 GMT

bwebb@nrchh129.RICH.nt.com (Brad Webb) writes:

>HEY MARY...

>in answer to your question about the effects of booze on the solar plexus,
>in my SECOND (2nd) year of training( 10 yr ago), I went to class after three 
>or four drinks.   (NEVER AGAIN!! NEVER! NEVER! NEVER!!!!)
>Dumb move.  While I was still very strong(for hitting/blocking), and could 
>move/punch/block relativly well,  I could not take a shot worth spit.

I've been stupid enough to go to the dojo an hour or two after a pint (single,
but it's Canadian so maybe that's two American Barley Coolers :-)  ) on two
occasions (NEVER NEVER! AGAIN!!).  And what I noticed the most difference was
that my endurance was waaay low.  Every-thing was TIRING!  Dodge a drunk for
five or ten enthusiastic seconds (if he has no friends) then side thrust kick
his knees.
As for the PCP guy, I know exactly what instinct would make me do, RUN, like
the wind!  Not wise prob'ly.
-- 
Pete Hurd, hurd@sfu.ca| Q: Why did the Jungle Fowl cross the road?          |
Behavioural Ecology   | A: To maximize it's lifetime reproductive success   |
Dept.Biol.Sci., SFU.  | Q: Huh?                                             |
Burnaby B.C., Canada  | A: I guess it just needed to get to the other side. |
From: JTCHEW@lbl.gov (Ad absurdum per aspera)
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
Subject: Re: Drugs & Fighting (was Finishing techniques)
Date: 17 Dec 92 00:20:27 GMT
Followup-To: rec.martial-arts
Organization: Honest Ernie's Used Ions
NNTP-Posting-Host: 128.3.252.152

> this thread is coming close to a once commonly held idea 
> that drugs (alcohol, heroin, etc.) enhances creativity/productivity/
> ability.  I have my doubts.  

Some drugs release one's social inhibitions.  A classic example is
the way alcohol, a clinical depressant, is often perceived as a 
stimulant.  So:  the guy in the bar with the Harley wings tattooed
on his eyelids is definitely slower and less coordinated than he was
a six-pack ago, and also dumber,  but he also may be a lot rowdier 
and may tend to have his attention fixated on just one thing, such 
as the moral imperative of pounding you into the ground.

> After all, on an acid trip...mutant toilets  

Mondo movie, dude!

I have no idea what it would be like to spar on acid or to spar with
someone on acid.  But if I were to take drugs to enhance performance
(only capuccino; I'm getting too old for that s.), I wouldn't want to
take the ones famous for making you see things that ain't there.
Seems kinda... distracting, eh?

Most of the (Western) military experiments with performance-enhancing
drugs seem oriented more towards making the individual servings of 
cannon fodder eat less/march further/stay alert longer, as opposed to
turning them into crazed but irrational and undisciplined killing machines.

Joe
"Just another personal opinion from the People's Republic of Berkeley"
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
From: wut@acf3.NYU.EDU (Tom Wu)
Subject: Re: Bullet catching?
Organization: New York University
Date: Sun, 13 Dec 1992 03:27:00 GMT



	A year of sandbag biting and a kevlar retainer should
do the trick :-)

	Good luck. Try to document your first experience, I think
a lot of people here would be interest in watching it.



					---Tom
From: cyeomans@ms.uky.edu (Charles Yeomans)
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
Subject: Re: Finishing techniques
Date: 14 Dec 92 16:09:17 GMT
    <1992Dec12.221226.20226@muddcs.claremont.edu>
Organization: University Of Kentucky, Dept. of Math Sciences

In article <1992Dec12.221226.20226@muddcs.claremont.edu> egross@jarthur.claremont.edu (Erik Maynard Gross) writes:
>In article <42441@sdcc12.ucsd.edu> ph2sct@sdcc14.ucsd.edu (Dzu Nguyen) writes:
>>I think what I would do is put a nikyo (aikido, the 'tupperware'
>>technique). Drop him with my center thereby ripping out his
>>shoulder. Then I would keep the pin because even if he is 7' 300
>>lbs. and using PCP, he won't be able to get out of the pin without
>>ripping his arm off.  As for the second thing i would do,
>>well...that's all folks.
>>
>>Dave (using Dzu's account)
>>
>>
>	Nikyo is generally a great technique, but I'm not so sure about 
>its appliaction here.  Nikyo is genreally a "pain" technique.  Although there
>are non-pain uses, but they are very difficult.  Remember that this guy is very strong, and is on PCP.
>	At your dojo, try doing nikyo on someone who is fairly strong,
>and tell them to resist it.  It's surprisingly hard, even for an advanced
>Aikidoka.
>	Also, in our "Thugs" altered state, why would ripping his shoulder
>out bother him?  He probably wouldn't notice it till he had killed a few 
>more people.
>	In addition, any technique that rely's on his reaction (ie, you 
>lower him, and expect him to stand back up) would not be ideal, because 
>his reactions are liable to be bizzare. 
>	The one thing PCP can't alter is the laws of physics.  My assumption
>is that he is charging you, so probably "simple" randori throw.  It would
>get you on the other side of him, and give you a chance to practice 
>nike-dori until you could call the cops.
>	They get paid to deal with that kind of crap.  plus they've got lots
>of neat tasers and chemicals and such.  If all that fails, they will usuall 
>be happy to gang up on him and beat him with batons, while someone records
>it on videotape.  :)
>
According to a police officer friend of mine who has had to 
subdue such crazies, the only way to subdue someone on PCP is to
choke him out.  My friend claims that "pain compliance" techniques
only piss them off - including the use of the baton full force
against the shin bone - in his experience.  He has never tried a taser.

Charles Yeomans
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
From: daba@en.ecn.purdue.edu (Daba)
Subject: Judo Tournament Sites and Dates Needed (re-posted)
Organization: Purdue University Engineering Computer Network
Date: Thu, 17 Dec 92 06:16:25 GMT

Previously, I posted a request for Judo tournament sites and dates in
Indiana and Illinois.  I did not receive any reply to that posting, 
presumably because there may not be any tournament scheduled in any of these
states.

Well, how about some sites/dates for tournaments in the mid-west area?

Thank you.
From: wrat@unisql.UUCP (wharfie)
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
Subject: Re: group for judo?
Date: 15 Dec 92 15:26:33 GMT
Organization: UniSQL, Inc., Austin, Texas, USA

In article <ZARR.92Dec14222618@lk-hp-11.hut.fi> zarr@lk-hp-11.hut.fi (Mari (Black Panther) Sepp{) writes:
> [ rec.*.judo ] Any votes?

	Boo on this idea.  Nothing on judo?  We just had a megabyte
flame war on why judo is/is not a good martial art for a new student,
and another meg on why grabbing someone's throat in your hands and 
squeezing is not a proper choke...  

	Were you in the men's room ? :-) :-) :-)
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
From: burdickd@silver.ucs.indiana.edu (Dakin Burdick)
Subject: Re: Sternum strike vs. Solar plexus
Organization: Indiana University
Date: Mon, 14 Dec 1992 13:38:23 GMT

In article <1992Dec13.190418.27172@craycos.com> sog@craycos.com (Steve Gombosi) writes:
>
>Exactly where do you strike when you do a "sternum strike"? We punch for
>the xyphoid process (also known as the "ensiform appendix"), at the very 
>bottom of the sternum. I believe this point is considerably more vulnerable 
>than, say, the middle of the sternum ...

I'd agree.  But the people I've heard talk of a "sternum strike" say
to strike in the middle of the sternum.  

>Striking higher on the sternum wouldn't be likely to break much of anything,
>IMHO, since the ribs would tend to act as "shock absorbers".

Agreed.

>Consider the case of an assailant with a *really* well developed set
>of abdominals, or one with (as Lovret-sensei puts it) "a well defined
>center of gravity." Striking such a person in the solar plexus may well
>be ineffective, since the intervening tissue may completely absorb the
>force of the blow. There is no such protective layer over the ensiform
>appendix/xyphoid process - even highly developed competitive bodybuilders
>have no muscle lying over this area. It lies low enough on the chest that
>even Arnold Schwarzennegar's pectorals wouldn't obstruct a clean shot.

Body-building can't make a solar plexus shot ineffective (although a
lot of fat might!).  The solar plexus lies at the juncture of the 
stomach muscles and the ribs (and just below the xiphoid process;
in fact the xiphoid process would be hit by a penetrating shot to the
solar plexus) so the whole point is to avoid hitting the stomach
muscles.  Remember that Houdini used to take punches to the stomach
to demonstrate how strong he was.  He died after someone hit him
in the solar plexus.

Dakin
burdickd@silver.ucs.indiana.edu



Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
From: bwebb@nrchh129.RICH.nt.com (Brad Webb)
Subject: re:Chito-Ryu info
Organization: Northern Telecom, Inc.
Date: Tue, 15 Dec 1992 20:29:27 GMT

=from (Michael Burianyk), University Of Alberta, Edmonton Canada
=
=Does anyone out there study Chito-Ryu Karate (NOT Shito Ryu).  I am
=interested in history, origins, relationships to other forms of
=Okinawan Karate.  As far as the physical aspects, I'm interested in
=how much throws, take-downs (i.e. matwork), which seems to be an
=important part of the curriculum in Chito-Ryu, are a part of traditional
=(i.e. pre-20th Century) Okinawan Te.
=

I suggest you write/call these persons
1)
Yoseikan Hombu Dojo, W. Dometrich
22 Martin St. ,  Covington, KY 31011

2)
Chito Ryu Karate, B. Tarczynski
 Randalltown, Maryland

3)
Rochester Yoseikan, Dr. J. Brown
87 N. Clinton, 4th floor, room 414
Rochester, NY 14604
(716) 334-2437

4)
Bellville Karate, J.Gambino
325 Union Ave.  , Bellville, NJ 07109

5)
Pittsburgh Yoseikan, J. Nedderman
Allegheny County Martial Arts Ctr.
9612 Holly Lynne dr., Pittsburg, PA 15236
(412) 655-2420

6)
Louisville Yoseikan, P. Arnold
3118 Mid Dale Ln., Louisville, KY 40220
(502) 459-2439

enjoy.

b. webb, dallas, tx.
From: wrat@unisql.UUCP (wharfie)
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
Subject: Re: Quick response was Quick question
Date: 11 Dec 92 17:34:45 GMT
Organization: UniSQL, Inc., Austin, Texas, USA

In article <MARY.92Dec10122605@martinique.Cayman.COM> mary@Cayman.COM (Mary Malmros) writes:
> [ the hands around the neck thing ]
>Yes, Wharfie, they can.  I've seen it.  Case CLOSED.

	Can you describe the circumstances?  Was it a case of a very
large person attacking a very small and untrained person?  

	Please don't take (stop taking?) my questions as some kind of
personal attack.  It's simply that I have a fair amount of experience
with shime-waza (strangles) and have real problems understanding how
such a primitive non-technique could give even a minimally trained person
more than a moment's pause.  So take the opportunity to teach me something
instead of flaming me.

	Idle question:  do you think you could apply nikkyo against this
attack?  I'll have to wait until Monday to try it...
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
From: simutis@Ingres.COM (John Simutis)
Subject: Re: Mass murderer is an MA-expert.  An UPDATE
Keywords: Newspaper article on Charles Ng
Reply-To: simutis@Ingres.COM (John Simutis)
Organization: Ingres Division, ASK Computer Systems.
Date: 15 Dec 92 20:17:18 GMT

I only know what I read in the papers...

[ Some deletions.  I post this only because of the thread from about
  a week ago. ]

From The San Francisco Examiner, Dec 14, 1992

NG SAYS OTHERS WERE IN ON KILLINGS

Calls himself a 'scapegoat' in Calaveras County murders

By Stephen Maganini, McClatchy News Service

FOLSOM - Charles Ng, accused of some of the most horrifying sex-torture
murders in California history, claimed Sunday that others who have not been
arrested were involved in the slayings.

In his first interview since his arrest in 1985, Ng claimed he was a
"scapegoat" for the Calaveras County killings of at least a dozen people, 
some of whom were cut up and burned.

"There are other people involved that the prosecution hasn't arrested,"
said Ng.  "Unfortunately, I have become the scapegoat for it."

Ng, 31, has been charged with a dozen Calaveras County murders believed
to have been committed with his partner, Leonard Lake, at Lake's hideout
in Wilseyville, a remote Sierra foothills town where many of the victims'
remains were buried.  Ng is also charged with murder in San Francisco.

Lake and Ng allegedly built a bunker used to sexually abuse and torture
female victims.  Lake took his own life with a cyanide pill after his
arrest in 1985.

During the 90 minute interview at Folsom Prison in Sacramento County, Ng
refused, on the advice of his attorneys, to name the others he says were 
involved and would not elaborate on any aspects of his case.  His trial 
is to begin Jan 13.

[ Skip a few paragraphs ]

During breaks in his Calaveras County courtroom appearances, Ng is kept
in a 6-by-4-by-3 foot steel cage.

"I feel dehumanized that I'm put in a cage," Ng said. "I'm already in
chains and shackled - that stuff stays on even when I want to use the
bathroom.  There are armed guards watching me at all times.  It's a way
for them to create an aura of my alleged dangerousness."

[ more deleted paragraphs ]

Ng was born in Hong Kong, the son of a camera salesman.  He came to 
live with an aunt in the Bay Area and enrolled in the College of Notre
Dame, Belmont.

Later he dropped out and talked his way into the Marines, even though
he wasn't a U.S. citizen.  He was stationed in Hawaii, wherer he led a 
raid on a Marine armory and was arrested.  He then escaped to Mendocino 
County where he hooked up with Lake and [ his wife Claralyn ] Balazs
in the early 1980s.

The FBI arrested Ng in 1982 and he served 27 months in prison. Upon his
release, he was supposed to be deported but instead rejoined Lake, who
was wanted on theft and weapons charges and was hiding out in Calaveras
County.

Ng was arrested in Canada in 1985 and fought extradition for six years.

---------------

No Martial Arts references, except perhaps indirectly with that
"aura of dangerousness". 
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
From: bwebb@nrchh129.RICH.nt.com (Brad Webb)
Subject: re:--Akane
Organization: Northern Telecom, Inc.
Date: Fri, 11 Dec 1992 21:18:23 GMT

>When I sparring, I don't expect a guy to hold back since I'm female, and I let
>him know this by going as full out as instructed.  In my experience, they got
>over the fact that I was female and concentrated on the sparring.  No
>questions, no feelings hurt.
>
>--Akane


Which is as it should be! 

B. Webb, Japan Shotokan, Dallas, Tx.
From: sog@craycos.com (Steve Gombosi)
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
Subject: Re: group for judo?
Date: 15 Dec 92 19:56:25 GMT
Organization: Cray Computer Corporation

In article <4381@unisql.UUCP> wrat@unisql.UUCP (wharfie) writes:
>In article <ZARR.92Dec14222618@lk-hp-11.hut.fi> zarr@lk-hp-11.hut.fi (Mari (Black Panther) Sepp{) writes:
>> [ rec.*.judo ] Any votes?
>
>	Boo on this idea.  Nothing on judo?  We just had a megabyte
>flame war on why judo is/is not a good martial art for a new student,
>and another meg on why grabbing someone's throat in your hands and 
>squeezing is not a proper choke...  

The millenium has arrived - Wharfie and I are in complete agreement
about something ;-) ! I'd hate to see the group split - I have a
lot of respect for Judo and I've learned quite a bit from the
judoka in the group. For my own very selfish reasons, I'd like them
to stick around. One of the major reasons why this group was formed 
was to promote discussion among people who practice different arts.
Martial artists (at least in the States) tend to be a rather parochial
bunch, I'd hate to see that parochialism encouraged by splitting this
group. Where would it end? I can see it now:

	rec.martial-arts.judo
	rec.martial-arts.jujutsu.danzan-ryu
	rec.martial-arts.jujutsu.hakko-ryu
	rec.martial-arts.aiki.aikido.hombu
	rec.martial-arts.aiki.aikido.yoshinkan
	rec.martial-arts.aiki.aikido.ki-society
	rec.martial-arts.aiki.aikijujutsu.daito-ryu
	rec.martial-arts.aiki.aikijujutsu.yamate-ryu
	rec.martial-arts.karate.japanese.shotokan
	rec.martial-arts.karate.japanese.goju
	rec.martial-arts.karate.japanese.wado-ryu
	rec.martial-arts.karate.japanese.shito-ryu
	rec.martial-arts.karate.okinawan.shorin-ryu.matsubayashi
	rec.martial-arts.karate.okinawan.shorin-ryu.kobayashi
	rec.martial-arts.karate.okinawan.shorin-ryu.sukunai-hayashi
	rec.martial-arts.karate.okinawan.shorin-ryu.matsumura-seito
	rec.martial-arts.karate.okinawan.goju-ryu
	rec.martial-arts.karate.okinawan.uechi-ryu

	To say nothing of the 200 or 300 groups we'd need for the
	Chinese systems, the  ITF and WTF TKD goups, etc.

I think this is a Bad  Idea (tm).

Steve
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
From: osborn@socs.uts.edu.au (Tom Osborn)
Subject: Re: MA poll....
Organization: Computing Sciences, Uni of Technology, Sydney.
Date: 13 Dec 92 23:53:01 GMT

nahilgendorf@honors.uoregon.edu (Nathan Hilgendorf) writes:

>****What's an s/n ratio??????

Sifu:Novice ratio?

Syncophant:Nefarious ratio?

Maybe even Signal:Noise Radio?
From: dsr@bnr.co.uk (D.S.Riches)
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
Subject: Re: Discussing technique
Date: 18 Dec 1992 10:22:27 GMT
Organization: BNR Europe Ltd, London Road, Harlow, England.
NNTP-Posting-Host: 128.199.202.51

In article <1992Dec18.024724.19987@psych.psy.uq.oz.au> campbell@psych.psy.uq.oz.au (Campbell Dickson) writes:
>> From: taddiken@ms.uky.edu (scott taddiken)
>> Summary: One handed kouchi gari.
>	.
>A typical example of why you don't see detailed technical discussion.
>
[stuff deleted]

>I find this depressingly reductionist, but the significant thing is that 
>for all the apparent precision, it doesn't really address a general MA
>audience - you still have to have _experience_ of what is being alluded to
>to appreciate the discussion.

That's true of any field of interest where the people having a
discussion are expereienced in that field.  I sat in on a Formal
methods lecture yesterday and I didn't follow it at all.  But I did
find some of the aspects interesting.

Now, with regards to the technique mentioned above, I understood what
was said and could apply it to the way that I perform the technique and
I find that highly useful.  If I was reading about a technique in
tae-kwondo I wouldn't expect to understand everything said but it might
pique my interest enough to find out some more.

The point is, that technical terms are developed to give precise
meanings and without them we wouldn't be able to learn precise actions.
If we follow your argument to one conclusion, we might as well just use
baby talk and see what happens :-)

>
>It will be interesting to be able to judge the credentials of posters
>by seeing them in action.
>

Now that would be interesting :-)

But since that's not in widespread use we'll just have ti use text for
the moment.
   Dave Riches
   Email:  David.S.Riches@bnr.co.uk
   Smail:  BNR Europe Ltd, London Road,
           Harlow, Essex. CM17 9NA.  England
   Phone:  +44 (0)279-402496
   Fax:    +44 (0)279-451434
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
From: osan@cbnewsb.cb.att.com (Mr. X)
Subject: Re: Chito-Ryu info
Organization: Twilight Zone
Date: Wed, 16 Dec 1992 18:56:32 GMT

>from (Michael Burianyk), University Of Alberta, Edmonton Canada
>
>Does anyone out there study Chito-Ryu Karate (NOT Shito Ryu).  

	AHHHHH... the dreaded art of smothering your opponent in
	processed cheese/corn products.  This art is so deadly
	and fearsome, I am afraid I will not be able to talk about
	it without killing you afterwards.

	-X
From: dampier@taurus.cs.nps.navy.mil (david dampier)
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
Subject: Re: WTF + ITF(semi-long) = ???
Date: 17 Dec 92 02:15:23 GMT
Organization: Naval Postgraduate School, Monterey CA


Bill Carlson writes:

>In WTF tournaments, pads are used for the head, groin, torso, hands, and
>feet.  

In most WTF or USTU (in the states) tournaments, the requirement is for 
head, chest (torso), groin, shins, and forearms.  Usually, the hands and 
feet are not protected.

Dave Dampier

              X   X   XXXXXXXX   X     XXXXXXXXXXX
      XXXXXX  X   X          X   X     X
      X       X   X          X   X     X
      X       X   X              X     X
      XXXXXX  X   X   XXXXXXXXX XX     X
      X       XXXXX       X      X     XXXXXXXXXXX
      X       X   X       X      X
      XXXXXXX X   X   X   X                 X
              X   X   X                     X
              X   X   X                     X
                  X   XXXXXXXXXXXX    XXXXXXXXXXXXX
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
From: zisk@adobe.com (Stephen Zisk)
Subject: Re: Dance Notatation
Followup-To: rec.martial-arts,rec.arts.dance,rec.folk-dancing
Organization: Adobe Systems Incorporated
Date: Wed, 16 Dec 1992 20:23:36 GMT

In article <1992Dec15.233127.13718@murdoch.acc.Virginia.EDU>,
esh6h@fulton.seas.Virginia.EDU (Erik Scot Hatcher) wrote:

> I've heard of a dance notation that is used to put the
> moves on paper.

You are probably refering to Labanotation. This is a movement
notation with the ambitious goal of being able to notate any kind
of movement which can be done by normally constructed humans.

I am not a Labanotation expert, but I understand that the system
is very complex, as it must include minute movements of many muscles
and bones over time. It includes sub-notations for "motive" movement,
which might cover basic dance movements. It is taught at the Laban
Institute in New York and by independent practitioners and teachers.
Mastering the notational and observational aspects requires years of
study. There are some books describing the basics.

Labanotation is a twentieth century entry in a very long list of
notation systems for various movement styles. There have been dance
notations for various forms of dance for at least 500 years. In fact,
one of the earliest written descriptions available for dance is a
notation of a basse-danse from the 15th century which was apparently
treasured because it was written using ground gold ink on black paper.

Generally, the more restricted the range of "allowable" movements,
the easier and more compact the notation system. The basse-danse
notation looks like a musical staff with different notes representing
durations and a letter or two representing each allowable step.
Feulliet (sp?) notation, for Baroque dance, was much more complex
but still comprehensible because the various arm movements, footwork,
and partnering were well prescribed by dancing masters of the time.

Stephen Zisk (zisk@adobe.com)  Disclaimer: These are my personal views
Adobe Systems Incorporated     and do not represent the position of
Eastern Regional Office        Adobe Systems Incorporated.
24 New England Exec. Park
Burlington, MA 01803           They pay me but they don't muzzle me!
From: Stovall@f88.n106.z1.fidonet.org (Stovall)
Sender: Jpunix@urchin.fidonet.org