From: rwinder@PFC.Forestry.CA (Richard Winder)
Subject: Re: "Falling" Asleep
Reply-To: rwinder@PFC.Forestry.CA
Organization: Forestry Canada (Pacific Forestry Centre)
Date: Sat, 9 Jan 1993 00:52:34 GMT

In article <104089@netnews.upenn.edu>, rowe@pender.ee.upenn.edu (Mickey Rowe) writes:
>In article <1993Jan8.004657.3960@spruce.pfc.forestry.ca>
>     rwinder@PFC.Forestry.CA writes:
>
>>In article <103986@netnews.upenn.edu>, rowe@pender.ee.upenn.edu
>     (Mickey Rowe) writes:
>
>>> I'm very dubious that your sleeping
>>>position plays that strong of a role in shaping the content of your
>>>dreams.  
>>>
>>
>>I still disagree (again from personal experience, though I doubt if it is
>>unique).  Restricting leg movement (via sleeping cats, tangled bedclothing,
>>etc.) results in a pronounced difficulty in dream walking.  
>
>If I understand what you're thinking here, then this is incredibly
>stupid (sorry to be so blunt; I don't mean this as a personal attack,
>only an attack on the idea I think you're espousing).  During REMS,

No insult taken.  I'm not a sleep expert, so your criticisms are probably
sound.

>all somatic musculature (except those necessary for driving the lungs
>and, of course, the extraocular muscles) is actively inhibited.  The
>phenomenon is referred to as REM atonia, and electrodes for measuring
>EMG are typically part of the apparatus for determining when a person
>(or cat, or dog) is in a state of REM.  If your limbs were restrained
>during a dream, you'd have no way of knowing, because you'd never try
>to move them during the dream (not you real limbs anyways).
>

You are probably right.  I may be citing pathological conditions.
Occassionally, though, I am semi-aware of body postion, etc. during dreaming 
and can, to a *very limited* degree, alter it.  Now that I think about it, it 
does sound like a sleep disorder...

>>Ever see a time lapse video of people sleeping?  
>
>Yes, mostly at talks given by people who *study* sleep.
>
>>They gyrate like crazy, particularly with shuffling ankle motions.
>
>However, if they move *at all* during REMS (when most dreams occur),
>it is a sign of an underlying pathology.  As a person who shows
>incipient signs of developing this pathology, I'm somewhat aware of
>it. 
>
>>  Sleeping in awkward positions often results in the
>>position being translated to the dream.  Again, I believe that it is a matter
>>of residual awareness in the L hemisphere, rather than switching awareness
>>completely on or off.
>
>I deleted the section in your previous post where you went on about
>the R and L stuff.  I still don't want to get into it.  I haven't
>gotten around to reading _Drawing on the Right Side of the Brain_ (or
>whatever), but I *really* haven't liked the sorts of things people
>seem to think after having read it.  The Sperry/Gazzaniga split brain
>patient studies have probably been more over-interpreted than any
>other set of experiments in the history of science.  It's fascinating
>work, but it's a crying shame that people want to draw conclusions
>like that hemispheres turn "on" and "off" in normal individuals...
>Ick! 

Actually, since it mainly deals with drawing, the book doesn't emphasize 
hemispheres so much as modes of perception.  To a certain degree, it 
recognizes that the question of lateralization and specialization in the 
brain is a messy question.

Regarding my theory- we can theorize all day about the causes of myoclonic 
spasms, but, without experimentation, they'll have to remain an unexplained 
nervous hiccup.

>Mickey Rowe     (rowe@pender.ee.upenn.edu)



  RICHARD WINDER                    Title: Visiting Fellow
  Forestry Canada                   Phone: (604) 363-0600
  Victoria, B.C.                    Internet: RWINDER@A1.PFC.Forestry.CA
Newsgroups: sci.bio