HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
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Date:         Wed, 11 Nov 1992 17:06:00 +1300
From:         IS30124@OTAGO.AC.NZ
Subject:      Re: Outsiders in a Hearing World

Henry Adler says:-
>Barry Kirkland mentioned a book, "Outsiders in a Hearing World-a sociology of
>deafness," published in 1980.  I wonder if the information arising from the
>book with all these facts is still valid or out of date.  It's been over 10
>years since its publication and I'm still not sure if we have come so far
>or so little since then.  I have looked at research done on deafness with
>lots of skepticism.  Deep down, I feel the people who have done these
>studies tend to want you to believe their conclusions.  As many of you have
>mentioned, I'm one of those "rare exceptions."

I will say that a statement is only as good as the authority which supports
it. The 3 statements below are to make food for discussion on DEAF-L. Maybe
this will open another can of worms! :-)

Alright, I'll give you 3 of the many statements the book makes:-
[The book is "Outsiders in a Hearing World - a sociology of deafness" by Paul C
Higgins.]

1)      "The common bond of deafness only weakly unites the white and black
deaf in Chicago. The prejudice of the larger society is also a potent force
within the deaf world. .......  I [the author, Paul Higgins] have found no
indication of greater prejudice towards blacks among the deaf community than
among members of the hearing world. I have found no indication of less
prejudice either." - racial prejudice

2)      "Collectively, [deaf people] they are torn between affirming and
bemoaning their deafness, between looking to fellow members for self-identity
and self-esteem and looking to the larger world which is all around them". -
the problem of identity.

3)      " ... misunderstanding may occur because the writing or gesture of the
deaf person is interpreted by the hearing individual within a different
symbolic framework from that wherein it was produced (Stokoe and Battison,
1975)." A bank teller was given a note asking for a coin bag, mistook two deaf
people for robbers. The teller triggered an alarm. The FBI and police
tracked down the two people. A Federal attorney said no charges would be
brought against the two deaf people.
        -       the difference between hearing and deaf people's perceptions.

It's a very hot day down here in Dunedin, New Zealand. It must be about 25
degrees Celsius. I will probably go off DEAF-L tomorrow night as I am leaving
town on the train on Friday morning NZ time.

A nice day to you everyone,
Barry Kirkland.
IS30124@otago.ac.nz
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Return-Receipt-To: rap@uclink.berkeley.edu
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.deaf-l
Date:         Wed, 18 Nov 1992 01:24:16 PST
Reply-To:     rap@uclink.berkeley.edu
From:         "Richard A. Peters" <rap@UCLINK.BERKELEY.EDU>
Subject:      RE: I guess it depends on one's parents!

In Message Tue, 17 Nov 1992 09:39:16 EST,
  "Esther A. Paris" <esther@DEMAND.ED.RAY.COM> writes:

>Henry Kisor, when interviewed on Deaf Mosaic, said that he thought that
>being a parent of a deaf child would be very difficult indeed.  "Is the
>child being pushed too hard?  Is the child not being pushed hard
>enough?"  Parents of hearing children should ask themselves the same
>questions.  Usually they don't.  They're often more concerned with how
>the next meal will be put on the table and all the issuges that go along
>with such a question: what percentage of fat is in my kids' diet?  ...


I really don't think I agree with this position.  Most parents I have come
across really are concerned with raising their children to the best of their
ability regardless of their economic status.  Yes, putting the next meal on
the table is a major concern with many families (one of my grown up children
said one of his fondest memories were the last weeks of the month when we
all ate pancakes for breakfast and dinner), but this issue does not exclude
worring about how to best raise each individual child, and how hard to push
is one of the 'biggies' (and each child needs a different level of pushing.)

Now we are raising a child who is deaf (which is difficult as there are so
many new things to know).  However, the issue of how hard to push is the
same as for the other children we have raised.  For us, the hard part is how
to best prepare him to be successful in this world as a unique individual,
and deafness is just one of the many factors which make up his personhood.


>Most parents think that schools are for taking care of their children's
>needs and that the school will inform the parents if there's something
>the parents should be doing.

This unfortunately has become too much of a reality.  Our society has moved
from a position in which the school was an extension and integrated part of
the parents' education of their children to a position in which the school
is the primary source of education because parents have bought into the
model that they are not sufficiently qualified to be responsible for their
childrens' education.  <soapbox on.>  I fear for our whole educational system
if we don't break away from this model and return to the structure in which
the school system and parents mutually support each other.  Too often I
have seen walls built by both parents and educators. <soapbox off.>

P.S. Glad to be able to get back to Deaf-L (with a little personal
prompt from Esther.)  With 4 children under 5 I don't have much time for
active list participation.
                                          Richard Peters
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.deaf-l
From: mheney@access.digex.com (Michael K. Heney)
Subject: Re:      Re: phone answering machine
Organization: Express Access Online Communications, Greenbelt, MD USA
Date: Tue, 17 Nov 1992 16:24:37 GMT

In article <12NOV92.10005703.0205.MUSIC@CATCC> "Dave Windley, Data Comm Specialist X799" <AADW@CATCC.BITNET> writes:
>
> [...]
>
>No special machine is needed for that purpose.  In fact, the simplest
>machine will work best for you.  TTY tones lie in the middle of the
>frequency range of the human voice, therefore there is no problem with
>the machine being capable of recording it.
>
>The problem with newer machines arises when they detect the TTY tones
>as that produced by Ma Bell and think they are the off hook warning
>alarm.  The new machines will not record that annoying noise.  Instead
>they will hang up and reset.
>
>Newest digital machines will save digital recording space by suspending
>the recording process whenever a pause in speech is detected.  Since
>even a modest typist can keep the TTY tones flowing, machines will
>usually reach the record limit quickly because there are no pauses.
>
>For about a year I have used an old Radio Shack answering machine for
>recording my TTY messages.  It does not have voice sensing or any fancy
>features, but records the messages without a hitch.  The machine was a
>throwaway from my boss at work.  To record the outgoing greeting or
>retrieve messages, I simply place the machine close beside the TTY and
>the tones travel through the air from machine to machine just fine.
>Of course, the background noise must be minimal to avoid errors, but
>that is a very small inconvenience compared to the pricey modified
>machines like you speak of.

I'll second what Dave says - I have a new phone/answering machine combination,
an ATT 5600 (cordless phone).  Our Greeting has a TDD message in it, but we've
discovered that when recording a message, it will cut off after 5-6 seconds 
if it's a TDD message, which is a bit annoying.  We get
 TDD>  HI SUSAN MY NAME IS JENNI ...  <click>
which tells us nothing.  And we don't want to seem rude for not returning
calls.
 
Hopefully, we've taken care of this by changing our greeting.  We can program
a message into the TDD, so we pre-program our message, then hold the TDD next
to the answering machine's microphone and play it back at the appropriate 
time.  Our greeting message is:
 
   Voice>  You have reached Susan and Michael's Answering machine.
   Voice>  Please wait through our TDD greeting, a 10-second series
   Voice>  tones, before recording your message.

   TDD>    PAIGE HENEY ANS MACHINE PLS USE RELAY TO LV MSG THANK YOU

   Voice>  Thank You.   <Beep>

The TDD portion of the greeting is indeed about 10 seconds long.  Hopefully, 
the request to use a relay will cut down on the number of lost calls.
-- 
Mike Heney                |   Senior Systems Analyst and     |  Reach for the
mheney@access.digex.com   |  Space Activist / Entrepreneur   |  Stars, eh?
Kensington, MD (near DC)  |     * Will Work for Money *      |
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Date:         Thu, 19 Nov 1992 23:11:48 -0400
From:         CXLNVD@RITVAX.BITNET
Subject:      Re: Cochlear Implant Musings.

I disagree with the idea that 'taking away deaf children' with cochlear
implants is akin to the extermination of Jewish people in Nazi Germany.
My intelligence is insulted with this specious analogy -- being deaf
is NOT going to make *you* a member of a minority, race or culture.
I don't see how an oral deaf person, would fit into this 'Nazy
Germany' analogy, and that is why I feel offended about this comparision.
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Date:         Sat, 14 Nov 1992 06:01:05 -0500
From:         Seth Gordon <sethg@SILVER.LCS.MIT.EDU>
Subject:      deaf wish
              10 Nov 1992 19:45:29 EST <9211110402.AA25182@silver.lcs.mit.edu>

    Joseph says:
    Say in the future, a test is developed that will let parents know if a
    baby inside womb is deaf or hearing.  If baby is deaf, they will have
    an option of aborting it just like what has been happening to baby
    with Down's Syndrome.

For my Intro to Women's Studies class, we read an essay called "XY-LO:
A True Story", by Rayna Rapp (or perhaps Rapp edited the anthology the
essay appeared in--I can't remember the anthology title).  Anyway, the
author was a woman with spinal bifida, a developmental disorder in
which the backbone does not completely close around the spinal cord.
When the author got pregnant, she tested her fetus, and discovered that
it, too, had spinal bifida.  After much soul-searching, she decided
to abort the fetus, *even* *though* the mother, herself, had been able
to deal with all the problems that life with spinal bifida causes.
--
seth gordon ... <sethg@silver.lcs.mit.edu>   ... .sig under construction;
mit bs '91  ... learning ctr 4 deaf children ... pardon the inconvenience
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Newsgroups: bit.listserv.deaf-l
Organization: University of Illinois at Chicago
Date:         Tue, 17 Nov 1992 19:23:24 CST
Comments:     Warning -- original Sender: tag was NETNEWS@UICVM.UIC.EDU
From:         U30993@UICVM.UIC.EDU
Subject:      Re: To David James//I guess it depends on one's parents!

Esther, I think your comment about people signing messages was
probably directed at my message since you quote part of it in
your header. Apologies <deep bow> I don't always take the time to use my sig,
because I'm signing on from Tennessee LONG DISTANCE, to use my
Bitnet account. Just can't stay away from this list and all the
lovely arguments.
My phone bill is horrendous.....
%-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-%=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-%
Kimberly J. Laird
 71302.3005@compuserve.com
%-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-%=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
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Newsgroups: bit.listserv.deaf-l
Date:         Thu, 19 Nov 1992 09:02:13 EST
From:         Des Power <D.Power@EDN.GU.EDU.AU>
Subject:      Re: Codas (hearing culture vs deaf culture)
              "dgpappas@CASBAH.ACNS.NWU.EDU" at Nov 18, 92 1:47 pm

Dear all Deaflist members:

Greetings.  I know one is not supposed to advertise, but as we're a
non-profit could i claim indulgence because the recent mail on CODAs makes
me think that many CODAs and deaf and hearing people in the USA and
elsewhere would be interested in a videotape which we have recently produced
which addresses most of the issues people have been discussing about CODAs
and their relationships with deaf and hearing people.  It's called "Passport
Without a Country", and it's available for USD69.95 or equivalent in other
currencies (airmail).  Please specify if you need PAL or NTSC format.

Address:
        Ms Lesley Nutley
        Centre for Deafness and Communication Studies
        Faculty of Education
        Griffith University, QLD 4111
        Australia

        Fax:  617-875-9542

Sorry:  NO COD; prepaid orders only please.

Des Power

PS:  WE also have two other GREAT vidoes;  "Signs of Life"  (about the Deaf
Community) and "Signs of Language" (about sign languages).  Same prices and
conditions.

DP
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Date:         Tue, 17 Nov 1992 10:31:07 -0700
From:         MUTH_M@CUBLDR.COLORADO.EDU
Subject:      Re: Russian deaf/hoh penpals

I am interested in having Russia deaf/Hard of hearing students write to me, but
I am having trouble sending a mail.  Could you give me the email address again?
By the way, I am a deaf student at University of Colorado at Boulder...

Michelle Muth   "CUBLDR::MUTH_M"
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Newsgroups: bit.listserv.deaf-l
Date:         Thu, 19 Nov 1992 21:25:39 +0200
From:         Omer Zak <XLACHA1@WEIZMANN.WEIZMANN.AC.IL>
Subject:      Re: Question from a hearie...
              19 Nov 1992 07:42:27 GMT from <tspindle@LYNX.DAC.NORTHEASTERN.EDU>

Tom Spindler asks how do deafies communicate with hearies when there is no
interpreter or TTY available.  Be assured, Tom, this is a serious and quite
legitimate question!
1. The hearie must have patience for the slower pace of communication (which
will be slower no matter what means you are using).
2. Lots of paper and pens/pencils are very much in order.
3. If both sides of a conversation are quick touch typists, they can sit
at a typewriter and take turns typing (notice that nowadays, 'typewriter'
actually means a PC with word processor or text editor).
4. Sometimes the deaf person lipreading ability is adequate for the
circumstances, and in that case the hearie needs only to speak a bit
slower and open his lips somewhat wider.
                                            --- Omer
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.deaf-l
From: mheney@access.digex.com (Michael K. Heney)
Subject: Names and Labels
Organization: Express Access Online Communications, Greenbelt, MD USA
Date: Wed, 18 Nov 1992 17:29:10 GMT

In article <BxwCws.LHD@unix.portal.com> pepper@shell.portal.com (Angelique N Wahlstedt) writes:

>Speaking of "politically incorrect terms"...if we call ourselves "deafies"
>and them "hearies", what do we call interpreters? A friend of mine from
>the college days used to refer them as "terpies" (not demeaning to the
>interpreters at all -- "terpie" just was much shorter than "sign language
>interpreter", though. :-)
>

Actually, the term I hear used among interpreters is "terps".  
Nice and monosyllabic ...
-- 
Mike Heney                |   Senior Systems Analyst and     |  Reach for the
mheney@access.digex.com   |  Space Activist / Entrepreneur   |  Stars, eh?
Kensington, MD (near DC)  |     * Will Work for Money *      |
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Newsgroups: bit.listserv.deaf-l
Date:         Mon, 23 Nov 1992 15:45:29 EST
From:         "Stephen J. Kotchen" <CASK@CATCC.BITNET>
Subject:      Welcome Jackie Guarente-Rider!!!!

Hello Jackie..

     More Catonsville Community College people signed up DEAF-L
Dave Windley, Matthew Norman, Becky Holtzman and Stephen Kotchen now
Jackie Guarente-Rider.  I hope you will enjoy read DEAF-L about many
things. This DEAF-L is general brainstorming about anything like SIGNing
vs. ORAL vs vs vs.....  many issues involved between two cultures....
such as language, discrimination, barrier, oppression, and many issues
some issues could be a "Final Solution" which we don't appreicate but to
learn the challanges with them who are listening-impairment people. We,
indeed, have learned to work with Listening-Impairment people while they
learned to work with us (Hearing-Impairment People).  Enjoy your reading
DEAF-L News...............

Good Luck, and God Bless you

--Stephen Kotchen

> The following is my "bio".  I'm a new comer to the list.
>
> NAME: Jackie Guarente-Rider
>
> AGE: 31
>
> OCCUPATION: Programmer at Catonsville Community College in Baltimore,
> Maryland, USA
>
> BOOK I TELL OTHERS TO READ: Codependent Nomore (something like that)
>
> HOBBIES: Are you kidding?  I have no life, I got a kid!
>
> HEARING STATUS: Hearing.
>
> COMMUNICATION STRATEGY: Anticipate learning American Sign Language in
> the spring.
>
> PERSONAL HEROES: My sister.  Mr. Rider, my husband.  But he's more like
> my Knight in shinning armor.
>
> WHY DID I SIGN ON DEAF-L:  I am considering making a career change to
> Interpreting for the Deaf in an educational setting using my programmingy
> knowledge.  This list may be a good introductory avenue to learn
> about Deaf culture, concerns, etiquette, etc. prior to taking my
> classes.  If I find Interpreting is not for me, at least I will know ASL
> and be a little wiser.  Ninty percent of the time I will be a listener
> on this list.
>
> P.S.  When I refer to my son as "kid", it is a term of endearment.
> He really is cool!
>
> Sincerely, Jackie Guarente-Rider
>
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> | Jackie Guarente-Rider, Programmer |          BITNET    AAJR000@CATCC |
> | Computer Services                 |          Telephone  410-455-4278 |
> | Catonsville Community College     |          Bldg. H    Room 239 A   |
> | 800 S Rolling Road                |"Don't mess with my money, my men,|
> | Baltimore, MD  21228              | or my food."      JG-R           |
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
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Date:         Mon, 23 Nov 1992 23:32:55 -0500
From:         Cynthia Clark <cclark@CNRI.RESTON.VA.US>
Subject:      Re: making and unmaking the deaf
              11 Nov 92 18:26:59 EST." <9211161853.aa06964@CNRI.Reston.VA.US>

Hi Stephen and others,

Since I was away for one week, I had to
attend the conference giving a speech presentation
and assisting others with the registrations.
It was a real JOY to be back here and to see
the DEAF-L again.  What a relief...
I actually thought I was being cut off for good.
Hmmm, I guess I could no longer live without DEAF-L.

According to the Murphy's Law, every time when Roy is out
of town - there is a crisis problem going on
our machines.  We could hardly live without him !

Hey Roy, thanks for letting us know.  We do not want
to take you for granted.

Cynthia Clark
A born-deaf Reader
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Date:         Tue, 17 Nov 1992 21:44:08 -0600
From:         /PN=MARVIN.MILLER/O=DEAFTEK/ADMD=TELEMAIL/C=US/@SPRINT.COM
Subject:      RE: personal attack

 <"JGJC-5518-5895/36"*/PN=MARVIN.MILLER/O=DEAFTEK/ADMD=TELEMAIL/C=US/@sprint.com
 >

Bosco, please accept my profuse apologies for my stu0pid and
insensitive remark., I dont know why I made that in the
firs t place.. it must have been my "Pepsi-Free" withdrawal
thing... (just swithced to Diet Pepsi Free)...

Again, I promise this won't happen again.

Thank you,
Marvin
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Newsgroups: bit.listserv.deaf-l
Date:         Fri, 20 Nov 1992 19:51:00 CDT
From:         CONLEY%MSUVX2@MEMSTVX1.BITNET
Subject:      Re: this and that from the teacher

        Hello all and THANKS to Cathy and Richard!;



        Although, I haven't experienced this problem with
        "educating the deaf" thing, I see your views as
        being the only justifiable thing for your child.
        Richard, I think your son has a wonderful father;
        keep up the good work!

>From: "Richard A. Peters" <rap@UCLINK.BERKELEY.EDU>

> Anyway, as the discussion progressed, the special education
>administrator said (paraphrased), "I know what I am doing.  I have
>been trained in special education and have years of experience,
>whereas you are just a parent."

>                                         Richard A. Peters

         I wonder if this special education teacher understands
        deafness and the lifestyles of the deaf.  I'm getting
        the impression from what you said about his response;
        "I know what I am doing......."; that he sees your deaf
        son as just "another special education student" and sees his
        challenge as to educate just another spec.educ.stud..
        Does he not know that your son needs special communicative
        skills such as Signing, lip-reading, etc.... whatever?
        I don't feel this Spec. Educ. teacher understands the
        full gammit of circumstances involved here..
        Sorry, soab-box off+  Anyway, I enjoyed the outcome
        and hope all is well.

        Anyway, good weekend to all!
                                        Steven Conlee
                                        CONLEY@MEMSTVX1.MEMST.EDU
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Newsgroups: bit.listserv.deaf-l
Date:         Mon, 23 Nov 1992 23:35:42 -0500
From:         Cynthia Clark <cclark@CNRI.RESTON.VA.US>
Subject:      Re: Rosen Reacts to 60 Minutes (from TFA.dis at Gallaudet)
              20 Nov 92 20:01:46 EST." <9211202120.aa21662@CNRI.Reston.VA.US>

Steven T. Hardy or others,

What is the "TFA.dis" at Gallaudet  ??

Cynthia
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Date:         Fri, 20 Nov 1992 09:53:32 -0500
From:         "Mark J. Dessert" <11MDESSERT@GALLUA.BITNET>
Subject:      Re: gallaudet students

>Michelle-

>Adam is right.  I forgot that Gallaudet has a few different nodes.

>Here are some that I am aware of:

>Gallua

>Gallux

>Galluj

>Gallut

>Elaine

Hi,
        Just wanted to add an update that GALLUJ no longer exists, and
that GALLUA is the only node with as far as I know with off campus
access.

Mark
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Organization: University of Illinois at Chicago
Date:         Mon, 16 Nov 1992 18:59:14 CST
Comments:     Warning -- original Sender: tag was NETNEWS@UICVM.UIC.EDU
From:         U30993@UICVM.UIC.EDU
Subject:      Re: 60 Minutes, Angels and Outcasts, etc.

good posting David, and one that I agree with. Its obvious that
both you and I were extremely lucky in having parents, who, while
coming to grips with the fact that their child was different, cared
enough to think we were worth doing something about, and cared enough
to keep us a part of the family.

BTW, this is not intended to be a flame directed against parents
who decide to send their child to a school for the deaf. This is
just the other side of the coin, of parents are deciding for their
children.
%-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-%=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-%
Kimberly J. Laird
 71302.3005@compuserve.com
%-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-%=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
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Date:         Thu, 12 Nov 1992 16:59:26 -0500
From:         Cynthia Clark <cclark@CNRI.RESTON.VA.US>
Subject:      Hello ????

To the deaf list,

Please respond.

I have not receive any messages from the DEAF-LIST today.

Does anyone know about the events at the Gally's theatre ??

Your response will be appreciated.

Regards,

Cynthia
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