From: rdonahue@spdcc.com (Bob Donahue)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: The Silent Majority (was: other stuff)
Date: 26 Aug 92 13:40:08 GMT
Article-I.D.: spdcc.1992Aug26.134008.5987
Organization: insert anything here

mara@panix.com (Mara Chibnik) writes:
>rdonahue@spdcc.com (Bob Donahue) writes:

> >Occasionally, someone makes their first post and starts off on the
> >wrong foot.  Most people who have read here for a while usually know
> >the climate very well and jump in without a thought.

>This group has a lot more structure than usually appears.  We're
>surprisingly cohesive, and that means that someone who "breaks in"
>is doing something to the structure that holds us together.  "Doing
>something" is deliberately vague.  

	The "cohesiveness" I think stems from mutual respect of
both our similarities and our differences (mostly the latter) than
some sort of RNC-like "party line and platform" as we are occasionally
accused.  Most of the people who feel they are "gunned down" in this forum
by some overseeing cabal are getting a reaction from not so much a 
"threat to the structure" the protection of a group of us who are
under attack from a parochial point-of-view.

	The latest thing with B.S. is of course a classic case of this:
it is VERY ironic that for the most part, the people who are scuffling
with him the most are not in any way stereotypical.  Why are they
countering B.S> so hotly?  It's not their hides under attack but others
of our community who are near and dear to us.  Presumably were roles 
reversed and B.S. swished on here wanting to stamp out all gay trolls
who think they can hide in straight-appearing oblivion, some of the
more trend-enabled and fashionable motss-folk would <snap!> him into the
corner he would rightly belong.  We really are a family.

	This brings up an even more interesting point (IMHO): what does
it say about a group of people who would seel out their family so easily?
Put another way, people like B.S. have a very hard time envisioning an
inclusive GBLO*-community.  Their need for assimiliation and gender roles
are deep-rooted.  If push came to shove, how far would it go before
they sold the rest of us out?  It doesn't take that much of an intellectual
jump to see that while any of us are not free, we are not free.  But
if "faux" freedom were offered to Sarver, Krik, MAdsen et alia, "the
nice faggots", to what extent would they "play along" to cover their own asses
(for as long as the faux freedom lasted since they'd only be fooling htem
-selves in thinking that they wouldn't be on the chopping block next)?

	This "Animal Farm"-esque attitude is what annoys me. It is
clearly one borne out of fear, escapism, and denial.  And there is little
we can do about it.  In the end we (all) will win no thanks to them.
but we'll be too happy to bear any grudges.

>We often see words from
>(relative) newcomers that show that they're aware of the possibility
>that their articles may be seen by folks who've been around longer
>as hostile or disruptive.  For the most part, the ones who approach
>with discretion (which isn't the same as hesitation) discover that
>there's plenty of room for them here.

	It's not so much tenure as it is exposure.  I was at many points
making the same gaffes that other people here make.  In time I either
"grew up" or learned to respect people different than me if I wanted
them to treat me with respect.  It helped getting to know "them" as
*people* and not some impersonal unit (it's SO much easier
to hate, once you've made "them" a thing and not a person, no?).
Soc.motss was for me  the BIGGEST help for this since at the time
I was living in the boonies, in an area that can boast the more
homogeneous gay/lesbian culture I have EVER seen (why any place would
see that as a positive thing I don't know).  I noticed that many of the 
regulars tried very hard not to offend people different than them,
and that people, if offended called the offendors on it right away.

	Sort of like a microwave-GBLO*-education.  And while I can
see that ofr some/many it might be too intense or too fast, it
is the nature of this kind of forum.  But if you get beyond the 
hump of mutual respect, the benefits from all the cross-sub-culturing
is a never-ending education and mind's view into more facets of the
gay community one may ever have.



BBC hoping for 3 good
days in a row