HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: gunther.neuberger@icsmac4.icsmac.COM (GUNTHER NEUBERGER)
Subject: A German in Greece!
Organization: ICS - Intelligent Computer Solutions for MAC
Date: Sun, 27 Sep 1992 19:58:32 GMT

Hello everybody,
For the last three weeks I have read hundreds of
articles on the Macedonia issue and I think it's the funniest thing
in the last century.As I got deeper and deeper into the discussions 
I realized that Greek opinions carry some sort of paranoia which can
be best summarized as the territorial claims on Greece by Macedonia,
where some organizations at the extreme right in Macedonia are held
responsible.That's really funny.How can such a small country claim land
from Greece? Aggressive policies of the greek government have made the
situation impossible to solve.
I was in Greece two months ago.Me and my girlfriend visited some Greek
islands which were wonderful but one thing really bothered me.
The sentence,"Macedonia is Greek" was written on almost everything I saw.
They had even written this sentence on the walls of public restrooms,
on the closets and doors of these restrooms.
It seemed as if whomever I met in Greece was more than eager to say
something bad about Macedonia and Turkey.
I have also visited Turkey.Before we flew to Istanbul,many Greeks warned
me to be careful about my girlfriend!.After being in Istanbul we realized
how silly and wrong this warning was.I really don't know why Greeks 
behave like this?

 _____________________________________________________________________________
|  Gunther Neuberger                         |  gunther.neuberger@icsmac.com  |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------------------|
|  ICS      I n t e l l i g e n t   C o m p u t e r   S o l u t i o n s       |
 \___________________________________________________________________________/
Xref: sparky soc.culture.europe:8745 eunet.politics:1414
From: PXP111@psuvm.psu.edu
Newsgroups: soc.culture.europe
Subject: Re2: Serbo-Croatian and Greco-Bulgarian "stuff"
Date: 6 Oct 92 07:47:43 GMT
Organization: Penn State University

In   4th Oct 92 10:46:50 GMT    Luben Boyanov   (lb@cs.man.ac.uk)
critised my message  <92277.172939PXP111@psuvm.psu.edu>.

Here is the dialogue:

M.Pavlovic: My Greek friends...Don't let yourselves be pushed in-
      >>>>  to the defensive corner, like Serbia has been pushed.
      >>>>                                       Regards,  Milan
      >>>>
      >>>>        M A C E D O N I A  =  H E L L A S

S.Tzonev: BRAVO Mr. Pavlovic!
      >>> Maybe your next appeal will look like:
      >>>  "Fellow orthodox greeks - it's high time to divide Ma-
      >>>   cedonia! MACEDONIA = HELLAS + SOUTH SERBIA" ?
      >>>                                   very curious, Svilen

A.Romanos: I must remind you:  Mr.Pavlovic  has been very consis-
     >>  tent over the "Macedonia=Hellas"  notion for a long time
     >>  now, and I have every reason to believe that he uses the
     >>  term referring to MAKEDONIA (which is clearly within the
     >>  current Greek frontier).

L.Boyanov:  I would have  skipped this if it came from other, but
      >  from somebody pretending for accuracy and who has provi-
      >  ded (indeed)  good examples of research, after 'strange'
      >  initial postings.  But  what one can read from above is
      >  really ridiculous.
                ::::::::::
        <paragraph from the "History of the Great War" deleted.>

Ridiculous is when you wrongly blast one person for a posting so-
meone else wrote about the Bulgarians massacring the Jews,  with-
out even apologizing later!      <as you did some months ago!>

I merely observed that a netter uses a phrase  "Macedonia=Hellas"
beneath his signature, with some consistency.   In order for this
observation of mine to be RIDICULOUS you have to prove to me that
Mr. Pavlovic does not do what I recalled -and even if you succeed
in this, again, your characterization is rather unkind for such a
trivial thing...

So much about who is ridiculous...


                              * * *
    The rest of Luben's text is deleted. The excerpts he criti-
    cized (?) are OUT of context.  I distinctly remember that I
    never discussed Bulgaria invading western (to her) territo-
    ries and the scenario he presents. I do not know if this is
    the answer he seeks,  but  my speculation and understanding
    on this matter is that Greece will stay out of the mess!
    If foreigners now claim the opposite,  in my opinion,  this
    is simply a "wrong idea" on the Greek position and politics
   (and I mentioned this notion -coincidently- in my old posting
    as well).

                                             Andronikos Romanos
Newsgroups: soc.culture.europe
From: senel@vuse.vanderbilt.edu (Hakan)
Subject: in its 170-year history, Greece have never entered a region...
Originator: senel@irlsp
Organization: Insulting, Ridiculing, Forwarding Inc.
Date: Mon, 5 Oct 1992 15:33:26 GMT

> From: michael.polymenakos@factory.com (Michael Polymenakos) 

>>From: hubey@pilot.njin.net (Hubey)
>>"According to US officials, Greece has informally agreed with Serbia
>>to divide Macedonia. The republic is setting up frontier posts and
>
> Impossible. First of all, in its 170-year history as a modern state,
> Greek troops have never entered an region that was not predominately
        ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^~~~~
> Greek (except perhaps Italy in 1945 and Korea in 1950, but that was very
> Michael.

Oh Micheal,

  You mean that in its 170-year history as a MODERN state Greek troops have 
NEVER entered an region that was not predominately Greek. Let's add some 
exceptions:
  
         First Balkan War, 
         second Balkan war,
  1919 : Anatolia where 20% of people were Greeks+Armenians
         80% of the people were Turks. For Greek domination
         works inversely. Probably you compansate that 60% difference 
         between 2 communities using some historical facts. he he he he 
  1945 : Italy (just for fun, Hitch Hiking, sight seeing, etc)
  1950 : Korea sending 200 soldiers for picnic

I advice you to read the history once more (is it possible for you to
read maybe 100 times? thanks!). 

    NEVER          ---->   well, MAYBE sometimes
    PREDOMINATELY  ---->   we have 4000 years old history so....
    OF COURSE      ---->   sure, maybe
    IMPOSSIBLE     ---->   I don't know quite well because I haven't read it
                           100 times. I am at the 67th trial.
    
Take it easy Micheal, don't be that sure. There are always exceptions...

Hakan
-- 
___
God made the Idiot for practice, and then He saw that Asbest Bedrossian 
was born. He said "well, this seems pretty coooool."  -Hakan Senel 1992
From: x91horton6@gw.wmich.edu
Newsgroups: soc.culture.europe
Subject: fountenebleau
Date: 3 Oct 92 18:32:11 EST
Organization: Western Michigan University

I would like to know the electronic or mail 
adress of the business school in Founteneblaeu in Paris
From: dam@dcs.glasgow.ac.uk (David Morning)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.europe
Subject: Re: IRA-OSE, British behavior, and a "clean sheet for Paeonia"
Date: 29 Sep 92 15:19:55 GMT
Organization: Glasgow University Computing Science Dept.

cla04@seq1.keele.ac.uk (A.T. Fear) writes:

>From article <1992Sep29.042342.23857@ns1.cc.lehigh.edu>, by dk0a@ns1.cc.lehigh.edu (DIMITRIOS KOUVATSOS):

[ Lots of interesting stuff]

>> - and
>> think, if England is so perfect, why can't she even catch up economically
>> with Italy now!
>>

>I don't think I ever said that England was perfect, but it is noticable
>that in this group posters try to justify actions by talking about the
>atrocities of a perceived enemy. This just doesn't hold water - see
>above. Can't say that I'd noticed the decline, if it we were going to put a
>start to it though I'd suggest the tragic ousting of Mrs Thatcher.

[Rolls about the floor laughing hysterically]

Whaaaaaaaaaaaaatt????
The woman who presided over the worst rise in unemployment in living memory
and the virtual disappearance of the UK manufacturing base?
The decline of the pound in foreign exchanges, the imbalance of trade, not
forgetting the 'wonderful' Lawson spendthrift budget?
or cardboard city?

Good riddance!!

Dave
--
From: cho@wdl1.wdl.loral.com (Il Hyung Cho)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.europe
Subject: Looking for a Friend
Date: 30 Sep 92 16:25:44 GMT
Distribution: soc.culture.europe
Organization: LORAL - Western Development Labs

I was wondering if anyone in the Scotland area in connected
to the NET.  If you are and happen to be attending
University Stirling.  I am looking for a friend of mine
who is attend there.  Please write back to be for more
info if you happen to attend there.


Thank You...

Il Hyung Cho
cho@wdl1.wdl.loral.com
From: Steve.Hayes@p0.f20.n7101.z5.fidonet.org (Steve Hayes)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.europe
Subject: All
Date: 30 Sep 92 07:15:00 GMT
Article-I.D.: catpe.2496.2AC9F131
Organization: FidoNet node 5:7101/20.0 - Unisa Editorial, Pretoria

During a discussion about Re: France, je vous remercie pour l'election d'Anti-
Christ on 09-27-92  18:58 
 Graham Walker, 227 West Old Main,26:All said to All

 GW2W> Forgive my ignorance, but what does 666 imply? I have seen it on
 GW2W> several occasions in reference to the end of the world, but I still
 GW2W> cannot see any connection.

In the Bible, 666 (or in some versions 616), is the number of the name of a
monster that represents religious power used to support political power
(Revelation chapter 13).

In ancient Greek and Hebrew letters of the alphabet were also used to 
represent numerals (our numerals were developed by the Arabs much later) and 
so it was fairly easy to turn a name into a number. It is much less easy, 
1900 years later, to turn a number into a name, so there has been all kinds 
of speculation about what the name is. Some say it is based on the Greek 
letters NERON KAISAR, meaning the emperor Nero. At the time the book was 
written the Roman Empire used a religion of emperor worship to boost 
political loyalty. Christians refused to participate in this, and so were 
branded as atheists and anarchists. Many Christians believe that similar 
things can happen today, especially in totalitarian societies. Others (mainly 
the American Fundamentalists referred to in earlier postings) believe that 
the author of the book of Revelation intended it to refer specifically to a 
ruler who would appear from the European common market.

 
--  
INTERNET: Steve.Hayes@p0.f20.n7101.z5.fidonet.org
via:  THE CATALYST BBS in Port Elizabeth, South Africa.
       (catpe.alt.za)   +27-41-34-1122 HST or +27-41-34-2859, V32bis & HST.
Newsgroups: soc.culture.europe
From: hubey@pilot.njin.net (Hubey)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.europe
Subject: Dividing Macedonia
Date: 1 Oct 92 16:59:59 GMT
Organization: Rutgers Univ., New Brunswick, N.J.


Time Magazine, Sept 28, 1992  p. 56 from the article entitled
"Even Greater Serbia", 

"According to US officials, Greece has informally agreed with Serbia
to divide Macedonia. The republic is setting up frontier posts and
rudimentary defense facilities along its border with Serbia to
blunt the spread of hostilities from the north. In the south, Greece
has held miilitary exercises meant to send threatening signals. An
incursion into Macedonia could provoke the Bulgarians, who
recognize Macedonian independence but also have their own
territorial claims. Even Turkey, which sympathizes with the Kossovars, 
could get involved--on the side opposite Greece."
-- 

	mark	


   hubey@pilot.njin.net                   hubey@apollo.montclair.edu
 ...!rutgers!pilot!hubey                  hubey@logos.montclair.edu
Newsgroups: soc.culture.europe
From: MICHAEL.WILLETT@OFFICE.WANG.COM ("Michael Willett")
Subject: Re: RAID 7 Systems Now in Europe
Organization: Mail to News Gateway at Wang Labs
Date: 29 Sep 92 16:56:26 EST

Regarding John Scoggin's request for information on RAID systems for
VINES, Storage Computer of Nashua, N.H. is currently showing its new high
performance RAID 7 disk array platforms at the September International VINES
User Meeting.  SCSI-based, they work equally well with NetWare, workstations,
IBM systems, VAXes, etc.  I found out that Storage Computer has just opened
up its new European headquarters in Frankfurt.  The telephone there is
(49) 6917-2145.  The FAX is (49) 6917-2149.  They are handling their Europe
operations out of Frankfurt at the moment, so it is not necessary to
call Storage Computer headquarters in the U.S.

Standards-based, RAID 7 is designed for enterprise-wide computing and
overcomes performance limitations of earlier RAID architectures, providing
a  "real world sustained application performance improvement of 200% to
400%" and dropping the cost of storage to 16 cents/MB.  Their brochures
say they can "mix and match" up to 48 SCSI commodity (3.5 or 5.25 inch)
drives, up to 150 GB.  The RAID 7 disk array platforms come with an embedded
operating system and up to 12 SCSI-2 based host interfaces.  Besides servers,
Storage Computer's RAID 7 disk array platforms can connect to workstations
and midrange systems in addition to IBM's.  Multiple CPUs can be attached to
same disk array platform.

The RAID 7 platforms come with up to 256 MB of cache, eliminating any
reason for using performance-damaging CPU main memory disk RAM.  The
drives are "hot plugable" for uninterrupted, transparent operation,
with a hot standby drive automatically replacing a failed drive.

There was a lot of activity this week at the Storage Computer RAID 7 booth
at the Boston Banyan show as I walked by.  They were demoing what happens if
a drive goes down, showing the backup drive taking over.

For further information on Storage Computer's RAID 7 for any system, their
key US contact is indicated to be John O'Brien, Director of Technical
Services at Tel. 603-880-3005 or FAX 603-889-7232.  John is the original

"guru" of the RAID 7 advances, and a well-known RAID industry figure.

Cheers! ------- Michael.Willett@OFFICE.Wang.com
From: PXP111@psuvm.psu.edu
Newsgroups: soc.culture.europe
Subject: Re1: Serbo-Croatian and Greco-Bulgarian "stuff"
Date: 6 Oct 92 07:42:54 GMT
Organization: Penn State University


Lou Buis  <buis@buengc.bu.edu>    in posting   <97526@bu.edu>  of
4 Oct 92 00:56:05 GMT replies to my posting  <92277.172939PXP111@
psuvm.psu.edu>:

> PXP111@psuvm.psu.edu writes:
>
>>   --> Your sentence makes no sense in the  "Greek vocabulary"
>>       since Macedonia is NOT..." Greece + (something else)."
>
>  Andronicos, I really have a  lot of respect for you  based on
> your postings,but this one is a disaster. Is this the same per-
> son who wrote the eloquent articles on Macedonia ?

Thanks for the compliment! I don't think that my points here are
a disaster and please read what I will say... more carefully.

> You know VERY WELL that Macedonia is  NOT  only in Greece, but
> also in Bulgaria and the Republic of Macedonia !!! Why are you
> trying to present yourself as ignorant?

Do you honestly feel  that one would TRY to present himself/her-
self as "ignorant"?  Here is what I wrote: "in the Greek vocabu-
lary MAKEDONIA is not [Greece] + [something else]."
If you believe otherwise.. ask around what the Greeks consider as
Makedonia and you will convince yourself!
Remember the list of names or all the arguments they brought some
time ago: Dardania, Paionia, even Illyria and Moesia, or Cossovo,
west Bulgaria, south Serbia...
What can I say?   Ask any person in downtown Skopje and they will
probably confirm the phrase I used.  At least they articulated it
in the CNN World Report with C.Sojilephska (?).

> If your argument is that the state of "Old Macedonia" was cove-
> vering only the teritory of nowdays Aegean Macedonia,  than too
> bad. You know that that is not true.  It was not exacly the sa-
> me, but slightly bigger,

NOT  the 8th or 6th-century B.C. kingdom  of the Argead dynasty I
know!!!   Even  with all its possessions the kingdom of the 370's
B.C.  was  rather  smaller than the area I assume you denote with
the term "Aegean Macedonia".  Not only this state (?)  hardly had
any provinces on the Aegean coast  (so you are wrong in your com-
parison)  but also,  the Ylieis/Macedonians  ruled lands south of
Bulgaria and ex-Yugoslavia...
I know that in past discussions  I have mentioned Herakleia/Mona-
stiri/Bitola as a peripheral outpost of the  hellenic kingdom but
this does not disprove my statement over the old kingdom.

The rest of the text is based  on the above  misconception or had
no relevance to my basic point so with all due respect I leave it
to someone else -with more free time- to discuss it.

                                               Andronikos Romanos

PS.  If one thinks that Mr.Pavlovic was not eloquent and does not
     pass his ideas across, that is OK.  I understood what he was
     talking about, and I said that he didn't use the wrong words
     since he intended to be understood by a particular audience.
Newsgroups: soc.culture.europe
From: marshall@watserv1.uwaterloo.ca (Jim Marshall - DCS)
Subject: Canada
Organization: University of Waterloo
Date: Mon, 5 Oct 1992 20:31:13 GMT




 

From postnews Mon Oct  5 16:23:25 1992

Subject: Re: France, je vous remercie pour l'election d'Anti-Christ
Newsgroups: soc.culture.british,talk.religion.misc,soc.culture.europe

In article <4OCT199209442125@sscvx1.ssc.gov>, godfrey@sscvx1.ssc.gov (LAURENCE GODFREY) writes:
> In article <1992Oct4.002130.8658@philmtl.philips.ca>, ray@philmtl.philips.ca (Ray Dunn)         writes...
> > 
> >His counter example, which attempts to equate jurors' unbiased
> >deliberations with his bigoted pronouncements, isn't at all comparable.
> >Neither were the gratuitous insults against Canadians he responded by
> >email - I fully expected him to follow his usual habits and post them, but
> >unfortunately you were spared that pleasure.
> > 
> 
> They were not gratuitous insults against Canadians - I intend to bill you
> for them.  If i neglected to post them, here they are again:
> 
> I think I said that Canada was the country that gave us "differently-abled"
> as a euphemism for disabled, a phrase that is extremely patronising to
> those whose feelings it pretends to protect, the country in which the
> full stop (period) at the end of a sentence is actually verbalised - 
> pronounced "aye".  I said I didn't like Canada at all when I lived there
> in 84 - 87 but I think I must have misjudged it, as I cannot believe that
> 1000 ex-Nazi war criminals could have been wrong in choosing it as their
> home.  If you think those are insults, let me tell you that I haven't even
> started on the banana-republic government you have over there, the mediocre
> scientists, the racisim and hypocrisy, the pathetic attempts of the Canadians
> to distinguish themselves from the USA by taking the worst of the British
> culture and the worst of the American and attempting to call the resulting
> distillate their own culture.  The only saving grace is the existence of
> French Canada, whose attempts to divorce itself from the rest of the
> country I fully endorse.
> 
> Laurence
> 
********************************************************************

Well all I can add, is that the United Nations voted Canada as the
number 1 country in which to live.  Not bad for a banana republic.
Also what would you know about  French Canadians, I agree that 
they a "saving grace" which enriches our culture, but I don't agree
with your divorce comment. (And yes I have lived in Quebec for several
years.)

jim m.

********************************************************************
From: schoinas@fox.cs.wisc.edu (Yannis Schoinas)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.europe,eunet.politics
Subject: Re: How Turks view Democracy
Date: 30 Sep 92 19:40:07 GMT
Article-I.D.: cs.schoinas.717882007
Organization: U of Wisconsin Madison - Computer Sciences

hilmi-er@vall (Hilmi Eren) writes:

>    + 1) The Muslim minority in Greece are not allowed to *REPAIR*
>         their property. Not only the Turks but all muslims.

	  Well, I would like an explanation on this. What do you mean
	  they are not allowed to repair their property?

>    + 2) The Turks are not being recognized as Turks. The Greek Government
>         called the mulisms. Evidence?: In Northern Greece there is a people
>         called "pomacs". These people are said to be Greeks taken the 
>         religion of Islam. When you ask themselves they all say "we are
>         Turks"! This is one view of Greek Democracy- buy the way there is
>         just one taxi in this village-owned by a Greek. To get a driving-
>         license for a tractor for a Turk is much more diffucult than
>         studying in Oxford Universty- why - just to make these people
>         move out of Greece  leaving their lands.

	  The muslims of western Thrace were defined as such in the Lausagne
	  treaty signed by Greece and Turkey. They consinst of Pomaks, Turks
	  and Gypsies. If all of them want now to be Turks, I don't have any 
	  problem with that. But you must realize that the greek government
	  is perfectly entitled(i.e., legally entitled) to refer to them as
	  muslims as long as it refers to the whole muslim population of 
	  western Thrace.
	  
>    + 3) The Macedonians further North are aware of the Greek "Democracy".
>         Because the Greek Government and some Greeks calls these people
>         Greeks just they call the "pomacs" in Northern Greece for Greeks.

	  I could get into the discussion on the definition of what the
	  word Greek means but I will refrain from doing so. BTW, what 
	  language do the Oflis speak?

>         Everybody except some Greeks know that these tactics are used
>         , by the Greek Governmnet, to make the Greeks awarness of the
>          economic situation in Greece equal to zero.

	  Not true. I think that the government was trapped in this issue
	  due to the public sendiment. This issue has probably cost more 
	  to the government than if any probable gain of shifting the
	  attention from economy.

							 Bye,
							Yannis.