HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: alan@elroy.jpl.nasa.gov (Alan S. Mazer)
Subject: some answers for my backpacking liability question
Organization: Image Analysis Systems Group, JPL
Distribution: na
Date: Wed, 29 Jul 1992 00:05:08 GMT

Well, I do have a little more info for the curious regarding my liability 
leading or organizing groups.  I talked to both a lawyer and (on the
recommendation of a helpful netter) my insurance company.

1) The lawyer (I know this guy and he's annoyingly cautious but he's also a
   suucessful lawyer; his fees are $185 an hour and that's a lot to a lowly
   computer programmer) says there is certainly a liability problem.  He
   suggests a waiver as a minimum and also pointed out that you need to
   have signed medical releases for everyone, too, in case they're unable to
   approve their own medical treatment.

2) My insurance company says this may be covered under homeowners, but 
   probably not at homeowners' limits, so I would need an umbrella policy.
   They say if I actually bumped someone off a cliff, that's certainly 
   covered.  But if I suggest we go down a specific trail and someone has a
   heart attack and dies, they will defend me but not necessarily pay if I
   lose.

That's it for now.  I may post more if I make a decision.  At the moment my
inclination is to get the policy, be very careful of whom I take, and 
investigate the waiver.
-- 
 
-- Alan                        # Mountain Dew and doughnuts...
   ..!ames!elroy!alan          # because breakfast is the most important meal
   alan@elroy.jpl.nasa.gov     # of the day.
From: ffjal@alaska.edu (John Lehman)
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
Subject: Re: Goin' to Alaska
Date: 28 Jul 92 17:04:39 GMT
Distribution: na
Organization: University of Alaska Fairbanks

In article <13864@nntp_server.ems.cdc.com> rickh@ems.cdc.com (Richard Herwig)
writes:
...My S.O. and I are also (maybe) planning to get up to Denali and drive around
>the triangle (the road east of Denali, south to Valdez, west to Anchorage).
>Anybody got any suggestions for fun things to do, to go?  ...>Any suggestions
on 
>fishin* gear?

If you fish with hardware, pixies are very popular -- pink and orange seem to
be the best colors.  No live bait is allowed in Alaska.  If you do real
fishing, Burger Brothers in the Twin Cities usually stocks one or two books
on Alaska fly patterns.

You can expect alot more rain south of the Alaska Range than north of it. Do
not plan to average more than 40 mph on the Denali Highway (east of the park)
until you are about 20 miles from Paxton; the road is not in real great 
condition this year. 

As long as you will be so close, why not take a couple of extra days and drive
the Dalton highway up past the arctic circle?  You can go as far as the Brooks
Range before you need a permit.

Warning: the mosquitoes are setting a record this year -- they are almost as
bad as the Boundary Waters area in Minnesota!

If you like the megamall, you will love Denali Park, which has about the same
population density.  Fortunately, it keeps all of the tourists from crowding
the real backcountry.
From: Dan Yurman <dyurman@igc.org>
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
Date: 21 Jul 92 07:36 PDT
Subject: Re: 15388
Nf-ID: #R:1992Jul20.100444.4632@gw.wmich.e:1675920979:cdp:1449600013:000:449
Nf-From: cdp.UUCP!dyurman    Jul 21 07:36:00 1992


Check your local Red Wing Shoe Store for Vasque with Gore-Tex,
about $120.  BTW: There are NO mountains in the Golden, Colo,
area, just some foothils, and, of course, the Coors Brewery.

*/--------------------------------------------------------------/*
  Dan Yurman            | dyurman@igc.org       | Adopt a trail
  PO Box 1569           | 43N 112W -7 GMT       | in the Targhee
  Idaho Falls, ID 83403 | dyurman@world.std.com | National Forest

Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
From: dadams@cray.com (David Adams)
Subject: Re: Dutch oven/outdoor cooking 2
Reply-To: dadams@cray.com
Organization: Cray Research, Inc.
Date: 31 Jul 92 11:04:55 CDT

In article 24670@ecst.csuchico.edu, fholtsberry@oavax.csuchico.edu (Fran Holtsberry) writes:
|In response to the assistant scoutmaster who talked about the charred 
|stuff...
|There doesn't have to be any charred stuff (unless that's the way you LIKE 
|it) if you follow the three simple rules:
|
|TIME --using the correct temp, things should bake at about the same rate 
|as in your oven at home.

This does take some experience, as the Dutch Oven does not typically have
a thermometer, and often there is no room for one (say when making a large
loaf of bread, which is my most common application.)


|TEST --check things early, to see if they are baking too fast or too slow.

You can see how the top of a loaf is progressing, but you can't see the bottom.
I have had more loaves burnt on the bottom because of this.   Once again the
experience helps to remedy this.  I am getting more used to knowing how many
coals I dare put under the oven, etc. 

|ADJUST --use more or less coals to speed-up or slow-down baking.
|
|Using these simple rules, you can have wonderfully eatable food every time.
|
|


---
--David C. Adams  Statistician  Cray Research Inc.  dadams@cray.com
___________________________________________________________________
       member--Minnesotans for Global Warming.

Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
From: swatko@airbag.enet.dec.com (Mike Swatko)
Subject: Re: long pants/shorts
Reply-To: swatko@airbag.enet.dec.com (Mike Swatko)
Organization: Digital Equipment Corporation, Nashua, NH
Date: Fri, 31 Jul 1992 19:28:35 GMT

--
In article <1992Jul24.230902.5361@ichips.intel.com>, jreece@sousa.intel.com (John Reece) writes:
>It seems that back in WWII the military did a little test.  They took
>some subjects out to the desert (volunteers, I bet) and had them
>undergo two "sessions" in 100F/40C weather.  One was done in
>standard military fatigues, hat & boots.  The other was in gym shorts,
>hat &boots.  The men reported *feeling* cooler when in shorts, but
>they lost an average of 250ml more water per day than when wearing
>long pants and shirt.

That stands to reason.  When our perspiration evaporates, it cools us.
The guys in shorts were more successful "perspirers" than did the guys
in long pants and therefore felt cooler.

Now, was the purpose of the exercise to determine who felt cooler or who
retained the most water?

---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Mike Swatko                             !  swatko@airbag.dec.com
Digital Equipment Corporation           !  swatko@airbag.enet.dec.com
Corporate User Publications Engineering !  swatko%airbag@decwrl.dec.com
Nashua, New Hampshire                   !  ...!decwrl!airbag.enet!swatko
===========================================================================
Xref: sparky rec.backcountry:5712 rec.climbing:2672
From: ilana@kiowa.scd.ucar.edu (Ilana Stern)
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry,rec.climbing
Subject: Re: Public perceptions.
Date: 30 Jul 92 17:23:38 GMT
Organization: NCAR/UCAR

I told my grandmother, who lives in New York City, that my friend Mary
and I were going to hike up Mt. Elbert, Colorado's tallest mountain.
She asked if we were hiring a guide (and got very worried when I said
no).

-- 
/\        Ilana Stern DoD#009 | Whoever first said, "Things are seldom as they 
  \_][    ilana@ncar.ucar.edu | seem," was wrong.  Things are usually as they
      \_______________________| seem.  Otherwise, they wouldn't seem that way.
From: UCPL040@UNLVM.UNL.EDU
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
Subject: Re: Hiking boots and the Coors Brewery
Date: 27 Jul 92 00:00:34 GMT
Organization: University of Nebraska

========================================================================

>In article <1449600013@igc.org>, dyurman@igc.org (Dan Yurman) writes:
>>
>> Check your local Red Wing Shoe Store for Vasque with Gore-Tex,
>> about $120.  BTW: There are NO mountains in the Golden, Colo,
>> area, just some foothils, and, of course, the Coors Brewery.
>>
>   What the heck, with the Coors brewery around, I won't even need to
>think about hiking :-)  (Maybe a little hiking on the tour of the place!)

Perhaps I'm a bit out of place here, in fact this probably belongs on
rec.backcountry.politics or something. In any case correct me if I'm
wrog about any of the facts.  I discontinued my use of Adolph Coors
products sometime in the early 1980s when I discovered that the Coors
brothers were very strong supporters of the Regan administration and
the President's secretary of the interior at that time.  That would be
James Watt.
Secretary Watt, before he resigned for his lack of political correctness
concerning Native Americans, wanted, among other things, to sell public
lands (i.e.: public beaches, national parks, &c.) to private business
for drilling rights and mining privleges and the like (this is the
kind of thing Clint Eastwood is talking about in those public service
commercals).
I don't know all the details about how Coors gave their support to
the administration (e.g.: monetary or what ever) but I do wonder at
the fact (yes, I've been to Golden) that there are even foothills
left in the area.
                              By the way, I'm not in any way trying
                              to harm the reputation of the Adolph
                              Coors industry and I'm not by any means
                              start some sort of boycott of Coors
                              products which include:
                                   COORS (all flavors)
                                   KEYSTONE (regular and diet)
                                   KILLIANS RED (a fake Irish import)
skott underwood UCPL040@UNLVM
From: fauvel@IRO.UMontreal.CA (Sylvain Fauvel)
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
Subject: Re: Summery of Nike fabic boots, story, and more fabric boot questions
Date: 22 Jul 92 14:08:11 GMT
Reply-To: fauvel@IRO.UMontreal.CA (Sylvain Fauvel)
Distribution: usa
Organization: Universite de Montreal

In article <1992Jul20.174235.28361@mitem.com> unger@mitem.com (Tom Unger) writes:
>In article <1992Jul17.024638.12491@ulowell.ulowell.edu> jrichard@cs.ulowell.edu (John 'MacGyver' Richardson) writes:
>>	1) What do you think about Gore-tex boots?  What is the
>>probabilty they will hold up until I get a PhD and not have to worry about
>>money?  (3-4 years :) 
>
[-- Stuff Deleted --]
>Really depends on the shape of your foot, how much support you need
>and how much pain you can withstand.  I stick with the hiking boot
>manufacturers:  Merrel, Asolo, Vasque, Rachle, and others.  Asolo
>tend to be narrow.  Rachle wide, Merrel and Vasque make medium and 
>wide in most of their boots.
>
 ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
 I Prefer the narrow boots (Asolo) since they will usually have
 a better hold of the feet.  With wider boots, the leather stretched
 and my toes started moving and compressing against the leather
 after some time.  I lost a few toe nails in Corsica and had to
 cut the trip in half because of old wide boots.  Not very funny
 if you consider the price of the airplane ticket.  Maybe you
 need wider boots.  Check it out, width does make a difference.


 [-- Stuff Deleted --]
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
From: ai065@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Thomas Hill)
Subject: Re: Bigfoot
Organization: Case Western Reserve University, Cleveland, Ohio, (USA)
Date: Fri, 24 Jul 92 01:46:21 GMT


   There are several other good examples of more recent animal discoveries,
one of which being the pigmy chimp that was found in 1929 (if memory serves
me right). The mountain gorilla is another good example of a large animal
that was only exposed in recent history, along with the panda.
-- 
"A large creature about 7 1/2 to 8 foot tall. It was greyish black in color,
and as it went away from me I seen the backside of it walking as a man would
walk on it's hind legs."- Former Sheriff Oliver Potter, Vancouver, Washington
The Cryptozoology Information Network. Want on our Email mailing list? Amiga!
From: fholtsberry@oavax.csuchico.edu (Fran Holtsberry)
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
Subject: Dutch oven/outdoor cooking 2
Date: 30 Jul 92 20:40:03 GMT
Organization: California State University, Chico

In response to the assistant scoutmaster who talked about the charred 
stuff...
There doesn't have to be any charred stuff (unless that's the way you LIKE 
it) if you follow the three simple rules:

TIME --using the correct temp, things should bake at about the same rate 
as in your oven at home.
TEST --check things early, to see if they are baking too fast or too slow.
ADJUST --use more or less coals to speed-up or slow-down baking.

Using these simple rules, you can have wonderfully eatable food every time.


Cooking TIPS:
Dutch oven baking should be done using strictly coals, not flames.
Isolate the baking dutch oven from external sources of heat or cold:
  Move the oven away from the fire far enough to not be heated unevenly 
from the flames
  Shelter the baking oven from winds, as it cools the oven unevenly.
Be sure you have adequate air flow above and below the food:
   The legs are there to provide an air flow below the oven to prevent 
scorching/burning on the bottom.
   Leave some head space inside the oven to allow an air space above the 
food--this will prevent burning/scorching on top.


Care TIPS:
The ONLY time you should SCRUB a dutch oven is when it is brand new--then, 
go ahead, get it out of your system. New DOs are shipped with a seal to 
prevent rusting. Use Hot water, a good degreasing detergent and some 
scrubber to get the stuff off. And then--Don't ever scrub it again!

To start a good seasoning, swab the inside of the DO (don't forget the 
lid) with an unsalted oil and put it in the oven until the oil begins to 
smoke. . .then leave it in another 5 minutes.
Another way to start a good seal is to bake biscuits or deep-fat fry in 
the oven the first few times. Simply wipe the oven dry with a rag or paper 
towel and store it.

If you bake something sticky/gooey or crusty,--immediately after emptying 
the oven, fill it with water and put it back on the coals to soak off the 
stuff. Use something wooden or plastic to scrape off chunks. Wipe dry and 
reapply a light coat of oil.

If you feel you MUST burn off everything in the fire, remember that you 
also are burning off that great seasoning you worked so hard to get, and 
you'll have to start over with it.

It doesn't really matter what the outside looks like, but be sure to keep 
the inside dry and clean for use and storage.


Fran Holtsberry,
Fran_holtsberry@macgate.csuchico.edu

-_-Good design is not a default setting-_-
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
From: eugene@orville.nas.nasa.gov (Eugene N. Miya)
Subject: Re: Swiss Army Knife the best?
Organization: NAS, NASA Ames Research Center, Moffett Field, CA
Date: Wed, 22 Jul 92 19:06:17 GMT

In article <1992Jul21.223622.18161@ico.isc.com> carnes@ico.isc.com
(Steve Carnes) writes:
>For all you backcountry winos caught sans corkscrew,

Although I don't drink wine, I have friends who used to own a winery
(Martin Ray, ah grape picking in 3 months) in their family.  For them,
this is the case opposite finding a Swiss Army Knife.  Attending one of
those nice computer shows (Usenix in SF?) Hewlett-Packard (H-P) gave out
cork pullers to attendees.  Very nice hand-out.

The other favorite hand-out is found at sailing shows.  It's sailing
gloves (West-Marine).  Better than cycling gloves or fingerless climbing
mitts: more durable (bulletproof) nylon backing and strong leather palms.
Again free upon entry.

--eugene miya, NASA Ames Research Center, eugene@orville.nas.nasa.gov
  Resident Cynic, Rock of Ages Home for Retired Hackers
  {uunet,mailrus,other gateways}!ames!eugene
Second Favorite email message: Returned mail: Cannot send message for 3 days
A Ref: Mathematics and Plausible Reasoning, vol. 1, G. Polya
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
From: sherod@newton.Colorado.EDU (Scott Herod)
Subject: Re: Hiking boots and the Coors Brewery
Organization: University of Colorado, Boulder
Date: Thu, 23 Jul 1992 04:32:14 GMT

> In article <1449600013@igc.org>, dyurman@igc.org (Dan Yurman) writes:
> >
> > Check your local Red Wing Shoe Store for Vasque with Gore-Tex,
> > about $120.  BTW: There are NO mountains in the Golden, Colo,
> > area, just some foothils, and, of course, the Coors Brewery.
> >
        > What the heck, with the Coors brewery around, I won't even need to
> think about hiking :-)  (Maybe a little hiking on the tour of the place!)

But you can walk on the new creek path Coors help fund as part 
of their payment for killing all the fish.

Scott
From: shimeall@taurus.cs.nps.navy.mil (timothy shimeall)
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
Subject: Re: Backpacking in the BA?
Date: 22 Jul 92 16:47:35 GMT
Reply-To: shimeall@cs.nps.navy.mil (timothy shimeall)
Distribution: ba
Organization: Naval Postgraduate School, Monterey CA

I was at Big Basin week before last, and stayed at Lane-Sunset
Trail camp (round trip, 13 miles or so).  Had 11 friends with me.
The key is, you have to make _reservations_, about 8 weeks in advance.  
This is a bummer, but given the population (and popularity) of the 
area, there isn't much choice. (For many parts of the Sierras, you
have to make reservations 3 months in advance; for the Grand Canyon,
it's a once-a-year lottery.)

Oh, and be prepared to pack in all of your water -- BB is a dry-camp
area. (but otherwise VERY nice, with good trails)
					Tim
-- 
Tim Shimeall ((408) 646-2509)
The proper response to detecting a bug isn't to fix the bug - it's to make 
sure you'll never have to worry about that bug again.  --- Richard Hamming
Xref: sparky rec.backcountry:5722 rec.climbing:2683
From: ekp@mcnc.org (Edward Pavelchek)
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry,rec.climbing
Subject: Re: Cairns, Flags, and Fixed Wands
Date: 30 Jul 92 21:19:13 GMT
Followup-To: rec.backcountry
Organization: Good place for a disclaimer

In article <58V-3J=@engin.umich.edu> blagdon@engin.umich.edu (Kenneth James Clark ) and many others) writes:
>
>Second, if you folks take out too many cairns, some peon is going to
>head out there, get lost, nearly die, then report back to their 
>legislator who will pressure the rangers to "improve" the trail.
                                                           ^^^^^
and

>No, I don't like most of the trail signs I see.

How does the original get lost so easily? Eric posted about cairns that
were not within miles of any recognized trail.  Also in a place he took
cares to point out that they were of no conceivable value.  These cairns
were in a wilderness area, was it legal for them to be built?
And if you saw a butt on the trail, would you go back to the ranger
station and tell them about it?  Organize a trip to go pick it up
with their permission?

It seems to me that the government is responsible for marking maintained
trails, and those who place cairns are deciding for the government where
additional trails are.  Not their job.  Certainly not their job above
vegetation.  Much more likely that those who
obliterate ducks are doing the same as those who pick up trash -
improving the environment.

Of course here in NC, you can build all the cairns you want.  They'll be
overgrown in 60 days.
-- 
And if your hand or foot offend you,         Ed Pavelchek   ekp@mcnc.org
  Cut it off, lad, and be whole;
But play the man, stand up and end you,
  When your sickness is your soul.           AE Housman
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
From: chris@engineer.mrg.uswest.com (Chris Fedde)
Subject: Re: 15388
Organization: USWEST Marketing Resources
NntpPostingHost: engineer.mrg.uswest.com
Date: 25 Jul 92 03:24:11 GMT

In article <1449600013@igc.org> dyurman@igc.org (Dan Yurman) writes:
>
>Check your local Red Wing Shoe Store for Vasque with GoreTex,
>about $120.  BTW: There are NO mountains in the Golden, Colo,
>area, just some foothils, and, of course, the Coors Brewery.
>

I dont get it.  There are mountains in the Denver area but none in the
Golden area?  Isn't Golden west of Denver?  I guess that the radius of
the "area" is perportional to the "size" of the town.
BTW I like Vasque boots too.

	chris
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
From: lpj@col.hp.com (Laura Johnson)
Subject: Re: Lousy weather we're having...
Date: Tue, 21 Jul 1992 16:36:55 GMT
Organization: HP Colorado Springs Division

jodi@hpfcso.FC.HP.COM (Jodi Peterson) writes:
> 
> > So, what's the weather like in your neck of the woods?  Is it as screwy
> > there as it is here?
> 
> Pretty dismal here in Colorado, too. Much cloudier and cooler
> than usual, with about 3x the normal precipitation (at least
> it seems like it!). So far we've had only a few days that
> were 90 degrees, and none that were warmer--usually in early 
> July we get a spell of 95-100 degree days.
> 
> '92--the year without a summer. :-(
> 

Yep. At 8000 feet (Green Mountain Falls, Col. -- my HOUSE, not the 
backcountry!), we had snow on June 1. Yeccho.
-- 
lpj@hpctdls.col.hp.com
Opinions expressed are my own, but may be licensed for a nominal fee.

Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
From: Peter Beckman <beckman@moose.cs.indiana.edu>
Subject: Re: long pants/shorts
Organization: Indiana University, Bloomington
Distribution: usa
Date: Mon, 27 Jul 1992 17:15:00 -0500

eugene@wilbur.nas.nasa.gov (Eugene N. Miya) writes:
>geek@media.mit.edu (Chris Schmandt) writes:
>>If you want to know how to dress in the desert, look how people who live
>>in the desert dress.
>Excellent.  Time to show Lawrence of Arabia again as the Sunday night movie.

More specifically, how men are permitted to dress.  Many Muslim women,
for religious/cultural reasons, wear black.  Surely not a recipe for
remaining cool. -Pete
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
From: bishop@lupine (john bishop)
Subject: Re: Cairns, Flags, and Fixed Wands
Organization: University of Washington
Date: Mon, 27 Jul 1992 18:24:47 GMT

 I was
> knocking over carins that were three to four feet high and 100 feet
> apart when you could plainly see were the trail is.

I've seen a number of statements like this one in this thread, and I agree  
with the thought that there are often cairns in places where they don't  
belong.  However, I would like to point out that in some cases, especially  
on established trails, the cairn that seems a blight on a sunny day in  
July is often a blessing on a foggy day in April with a foot or two of  
snow on the ground.

John Bishop
Dept. of Botany, University of Washington
bishop@botany.washington.edu
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
From: delco@cbnewsi.cb.att.com (Fred Mertz)
Subject: backpacking in the beartooth, montana
Organization: Ethel's Place
Distribution: na
Date: Tue, 21 Jul 1992 19:49:39 GMT
Keywords: absoraka-beartooth wilderness

I am looking for recommendations on favorite trails or backcountry
sights in the Beartooth Mountains in southwestern Montana.  I will 
be on a 9 day backpacking trip there in September.  We will
be flying into Billings and driving from there.  Any
suggestions on local eateries, diners, roadhouses, taverns,
museums, etc. would also be appreciated.  Thanks.

Tom Capotosto
delco@esun.att.com
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
From: roat@rrc.chevron.com (Suzanne Roat,Chevron,(510)242-5313)
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
Subject: Re: Chevron - People Do?
Date: 28 Jul 92 13:42:06 GMT
Reply-To: roat@rrc.chevron.com
Organization: Chevron, Richmond, California

How about birds then?  I would have to agree protecting the bunnie population seems to be overkill.  But Chevron pays for a large part of the support of the Tinicum Wildlife Refuge and Bird Sanctuary located near its Philadelphia refinery.  This area is considered by the area residents to be an oasis.  Inner-city school children whose primary exposure to animal and bird life are the rats and pigeons they see on the streets find Tinicum a fascinating place.  Chevron supports other such efforts around the co

untry.

Chevron, the only oil company to use nothing but double-hulled tankers.  Yes, sometimes People Do.  And they can screw up with the best of them.

---
Suzanne Roat				Phone:	(510) 242-5313 Voice 
Chevron Research and Technology Company		(510) 242-4647 FAX
100 Chevron Way				Email:	roat@rrc.chevron.com
Richmond, CA  94802-0627