From: anthropo@carina.unm.edu (Dominick V. Zurlo)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: WARNING: Stealth African Marauding soc.motss
Date: 13 Oct 92 20:56:39 GMT
Article-I.D.: lynx.txnp66
Organization: University of New Mexico, Albuquerque

In article <1992Oct13.171922.7881@wam.umd.edu> lovegod@wam.umd.edu (Donald Andrew Agarrat) writes:
>In article <9pnpqr@lynx.unm.edu> anthropo@carina.unm.edu (Dominick V. Zurlo)  
>writes:
>}  Excuse me, but I think you need to read a little history of Africa Donald. 
>} Slavery was going on by blacks on blacks for thousands of years, and by  
>whites
>} on whites for thousands of years.  Yes, in the Americas it becaume race 
>} oriented, but that does not mean that because someone today is white that
>} they perpetuate the misdeeds of the past.  Granted, many do, but many do not.
>
>Try MOST do and some do not, because if you aren't doing anything in your own  
>little world to CORRECT those past fallacies that enable you to live so well  
>and free, you're contributing more than a Klansman to the problem.
 Well then, i suppose then according to your definition above that I most
definately am not contributing to the "Klansmen" or hte problem.  
I continue to see here DOnald that you ignore what other people are saying 
and have edited things out to the point where they only show what you want. 
In this entire thread all you've done is to harp on what the world's
done wrong to you.  What has it done right?  And what have you done with
that?  Correct what past fallacies?  I work to correct current inequalities.
>
>} DOn't alientate your friends and the people who do care and will help. 
>} How can anyone shout from an ivory tower?  Only as much as you are shouting
>} from your obsidian tower.  Get off your guilt and hate trip already, why
>} don't you learn how to be a part of the solution instead of the problem.  
>} You could start by learning about yourself and how to deal with yourself.  
>
>I DON'T alienate my friends!  I let my White AND Black friends know where I'm  
>coming from off the bat!  That's why I know my friends are true friends.   
>Please clue me in as to what I should feel guilty for ... I think one must  
>verse oneself well in the problem before one tries to solve it.
 I have versed myself in the problems I work with.  You turned around and 
accused every "white" person on the net of being a racist.  You sure did 
alienate a lot of people who were potential friends if not friends before. 
I don't think you should feel guilty, but from the tone and wording
you apparently feel angry and guilty, else why would you need to try
and justify yourself so much?
>
>}  Well, with that attitude, you won't get many pleasant surprises.  How do 
>} you feel when people don't give you the benefit of the doubt?  And now you
>} expect to treat other people like shit and for them to bow to you and 
>} respect you?  No way man, not if you paid me!  I respect people because
>} they deserve it.  Not becuse of their skin color.  
>
>I let the chips fall where they may.  If you're White and it appears to me that  
>you are doing the right thing, my hat goes off to you.  I've never said  
>anything contrary to that.  The problem is, how many Whites do I see in my  
>world doing the right thing?  How many Whites are like yourself, all too  
>willing to ignore the past, and in that ignorance are somehow going to "create"  
>a glorious new future out of thin air?
 Actually, you're very wrong there.  I do not ignore the past, in fact just
the opposite, but there is no merit in berating someone for what his/her
ancestors may have done.  I don't try to "create" a glorious new future out of
thin air.  I work at it with sweat and lots of hard work and standing up for 
myself and others.  But you assume culpability of "whites" before you
know them and find out what they are.  You expect them to prove to you
that they are worhty of your bestowing your praise to them.  Screw that.
you're doing the same thing as my father who turned to me one day and 
pointed out one of his coworkers, black, and said, "Look at him, 
he's a good guy, he's trying so hard to be like the rest of us."  
He was quite obviously happy that this man was trying to forget his past and 
his culture and be more like the "whities," being only about 12 there 
wasn't much I could do, and when my friends would come over to play, 
my father would grumble because they weren't good Italians.  When 
I dated a Hindu in high school, my parents threw a fit.  When my sister
was engaged and living with a Lebanese man they disowned her because of
the "camel jockey."  I got more than enough prejudice and bigotry from 
my parents.  ANd I told them to screw off as did most of my
siblings.  We stood up for what we felt was right, and still do. 
>
>} Donald, we all have a lot to gain.  Sorry you don't see it.  Sorry you don;t  
>} feel it. 
>
>No, I don't feel it.  I know there are White people out there doing the right  
>thing and caring from the bottom of their hearts and actually DOING things, but  
>they are horrifically outnumbered by their "comfortable" counterparts ...
 I agree, but you making your broad sweeping statements just take those of
us doing things and makes us say why bother.  I know why I bother.  So my
'daughter' doesn't have to put up with the same shit.  SO my co-workers
don't have to worry about being treated as property by other people (which
happens all the time.) >
>} It's not your anger that offends, it's your turning it on people who haven't 
>} done anything to you to deserve it.  It's how you express it, not that you 
>} express it.  ANd I don't think anyone here has every said they think the 
>} status quo is just fine and dandy.  In fact I hear a lot to the contrary.  
>} Wake up out of your blindness.

>Just make it sound a little nicer?  Words are one thing, feelings are one  
>thing, but actions last even after you are dead.  And if you're not doing  
>anything, the status quo IS just fine and dandy.
 Donald, you must be blind to what is posted here, there are a hell of a 
lot of people doing things.  Too bad not everyone has your view and 
wants to fight for exactly the same things in the same order as you.  Have
you really missed all the postings on the fights in Oregon and Colorado?
What do you think they are about?  Sitting back?  Not. 
And sometimes there are more important things to fight over, like getting 
food on the table and a place to live, even if it's just a cardboard box. 
DO you go down to the soup kitchens and help there? DO you work with
the homeless and try to help them find jobs and shelter and just even
to get a bath?  Why aren't you talking about the injustices done to them?
Or is it just becuase you find yourself able to go the a school and to 
live in a dorm that you don't need to concern yourself with that.  Why don't 
we ever see some of these issues on soc.motss?  Answer me that!  I'm 
tired of it./  Biug fuckin' deal, you got insulted! You;ve been harrassed.
Fine tell that to the street people I used to steal pizza for from the 
pizzaria I worked at to try and make sure they got at least one half-way
decent meal every day or so.  Tell that to the people I deal with at work 
who are so numb to the worlsd because they have so many problems so 
they drink themselves into a stupor every night or shoot up with more
drugs than I care to think about or wast themselves on Ice.  
get off your own soapbox and go and live on the streets for a couple of days.
Then you might learn about some of the inequalites in the world.  
Like the woman crossing the street in front of my house the other day pushing 
her shopping cart with her puppy on top, when the puppy jumped off it and 
got hurt and had the woman reduced to tears because that puppy was the only 
living thing that cared about her.  
You've got problems Donald, so do I so does everyone else.  I'm quite
firmly based in the real world, and i have realistic goals, but that
won't stop me from dreaming about a world where my lover doesn't
get beaten fro being gay or one of my best friends tries to deny his 
heritage by saying " I'm not black, I'm Panamamian."  I want a world 
where people don't look at me funny when my 'daughter' and I go walking 
down the street hand-in-hand because I'm "white" and she's black.  
I know it won't happen in my life, but I most surely will not stop 
trying for it and hoping for it.
>
 Dominick V. Zurlo
Newsgroups: soc.motss