From: tpjg9663@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (Tom Johnston)
Subject: Re: JLA #72 and a SERIOUS CASE OF DEJA VU!
Organization: University of Illinois at Urbana
Distribution: usa
Date: Mon, 25 Jan 1993 20:33:37 GMT

vanyel@camelot.bradley.edu (Alan Williams) writes:

>tpjg9663@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (Tom Johnston) writes:
>>rawdon@colby.cs.wisc.edu (Michael Rawdon) writes:
>>>In <C19yBo.HEv@news.cso.uiuc.edu> tpjg9663@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (Tom Johnston) writes:
>>>On the other hand, I actually felt that many of the characters here were IN
>>>character (within the constraint of the basic viciousness of the premise).
>>>Green Arrow, Martian Manhunter, and Atom, to name three.  It read a lot like
>>>an adventure of the old JLA to me, actually.
>>It didn't work for me because the callousness of the characters was so
>>far out of character to begin with (Atom, Flash, Martian Manhunter, and
>>Hawkman, and oh yeah, Green Lantern.)  Green Arrow and Black Canary
>>were OK, though.

>A few things to remind you, since you claim to be familiar with comic books
>but don't demonstrate said familiarity:

Am I the only one trying to keep this conversation polite?  Look, guys,
I'm not here to trade quips or vicious snipes with you.  If that's
what you want to do, please do so via email.

>1) The callousness of the characters is completely *in character*, given
>the premise.  Ever consider how superheroes might behave when pushed over
>the edge into ruthlessness?  Ever read _Infinity, Inc_ #1-10, when ten
>JSAers were exposed to the Stream of Ruthlessness?  After you've read them
>and seen how callous even the noblest of heroes can be, maybe you'll stop
>whining about "out-of-character" situations.

My opinions are stated as opinions and don't deserve to be labeled as
'whining' just because they differ from the opinions of others.  As above,
let's just discuss the comic and quit with this vicious shit, OK?

>2) This is obviously *not* the regular universe.  In no way do the
>characters even *have* to match up with their "real" selves.

So they're out of character with their "real" selves, at least IMHO.
Which you you explain by saying that this is *not* the regular universe.
No big deal, except I bought this book hoping for the regular universe.
Therefore I was disappointed with the book.

>3) As a matter of fact, the Justice Leaguers' behavior is consistent with
>(among other writers) Cary Bates and Elliot Maggin's depiction of the JLA
>in the early to mid-1970s, only carried to extremes--complete with Green
>Arrow as the ultra-left-winger and Hawkman as the ultra-right-winger.

>>>>  C)  No explanation is given for the events shown.  Were the events
>>>>      worthwhile/interesting enough to carry the book on their own and
>>>>      make up for the bad dialog?
>>>>      IMHO, no, they were not.
>>>This must be why it's only the first part of (at least) two:  The explanation
>>>comes later.
>>I don't mind people taking exception to my opinions, but I think your
>>sarcasm here is misplaced.  As I said in a previous post, I didn't
>>feel there was enough plot *IN THIS ISSUE*.  I am familiar with comic
>>books, and believe it or not, I was not suffering from some delusion
>>that the story ended in this book.

>Apparently you were.  In *most* of the multi-parters I've read that adhere
>to the things-aren't-what-they-seem format, the first issue is simply a
>basic day-in-the-life look at this situation.  If it takes that much effort
>to figure out that the issue's supposed to establish a *mood*, then maybe
>you need to spend a little more time reading your comics and a little less
>time griping about them on Usenet Newsgroups.

Yet again, IMHO the issue didn't have enough plot.  It had enough for
your tastes because you are satisfied that the issue served to establish
a mood, and things had to be done at that pace.  I'm not satisfied with
it.  I'm entitled to not be satisfied with it.  That's what opinions
are all about.

It didn't take much effort to determine what the issue was supposed
to accomplish.  I would have liked the issue more if there was
more plot development and less mood-building.

As for telling people not to use Usenet groups so much, well, I think
you're way out of line.  If you don't like my opinions, feel free to
not read them.  

Tom
Newsgroups: rec.arts.comics.misc