HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: kaminl@rebecca.its.rpi.edu (Matt Garretson)
Subject: Re: Tinted windows law ??
Organization: Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute, Troy, NY
Distribution: usa
Date: Tue, 15 Dec 1992 02:25:01 GMT

In article <^m#@byu.edu> earlyd@newt.ee.byu.edu (David Early) writes:
>In Oregon, the reason they gave was that heavily tintied windows prevented
>police from seeing the driver, which they said could lead to a leathal situation
>when a driver pulls a gun and the cop can't see it...I don't know if they had any 
>first hand experience with this.
>
I heard that this was the case in NY as well. This was several years ago, 
and I don't even know if it was true back then.

I'll tell ya one thing: I *hate* driving behind anyone with dark front/rear
windows, since it makes it impossible for me to see through them to whatever
is in front of that car. For this reason, I also hate driving behind
truck,vans,minivans, etc. since their windows are too high for me to see
through.

-- 
Matt Garretson                    :-)                 temporarily kaminl@rpi.edu
Newsgroups: ca.driving
From: cyclone@netcom.com (Bill Sheppard)
Subject: Re: Sensors at lights (was Re: Red light at 3AM - moral question?)
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services  (408 241-9760 guest) 
Distribution: usa
Date: Sat, 12 Dec 1992 01:40:16 GMT

While the sensors are basically loops whose inductance (capacitance?) changes
when there is a mass of metal overhead, they do break quite frequently due to
expansion/contraction of the concrete.  At newer intersections they will
typically install four loops in each lane so they don't have to be fixed until
several break.  Lane closures due to loop maintenance is actually
(economically speaking) one of the most expensive aspects of road
construction.  To solve this, technology is evolving to the point of cameras
being mounted on the overhead poles to identify when cars are there (and
having the side benefit/cost of also being able to read license plates, record
passengers, etc.).

Bill
Newsgroups: seattle.general,pnw.general,alt.society.civil-liberty,misc.talk.politics,alt.activism,alt.individualism,rec.bicycles,talk.politics.misc
From: paynter@bnr.ca (Stuart Paynter)
Subject: Re: Freedom, Social Responsibility, Individual Responsibility
Reply-To: paynter@bnr.ca (Stuart Paynter)
Organization: Bell-Northern Research Ltd.
Date: Wed, 16 Dec 92 13:57:00 GMT

[lottsa stuff deleted].............

|>  It is MY skull that is cracked open, not anyone else's.  And as I said in a previous post, I think it is silly to think that ANYONE would see reduced insurance prices if there were mandatory helmet laws.  In fact, in Minnesota where we are required to have car insurance, for example, it raised insurance prices since one of the basic concepts of capitalism is violated:  I don't have the choice NOT to purchase the product.
|>
I don't usually like to comment on such things as pesonal freedom but here 
I go....  Yes it is your skull.  By you cracking your skull open, you 
affect (possibly)

     - any people that may present when the accident occured
     - ambulance/paramedics/fire/police who have to come and patch
       you up
     - hospital emergency staff
     - hospital staff (doctors, nurses, orderlies, kitchen staff
       etc etc) while you recover.
     - any person who also needs the hospital bed you are occupying
     - your (and/or your employers) medical insurance
     - every other person on that medical insurance plan
     - your FAMILY who worries about you
     - your employer/customers while you are away from work
     - lawyers/judges/court employees if there is a lawsuit


There are more.  I am not flaming anyone who believes in the right to choose.
I just want to point out that we cannot treat some of our choices as only
affecting ourselves, and that this reason cannot be used as a strong arguement
for that right.



 
|> Charles.
|> --
|> Charles Ganzhorn			E/Mail:  ccganzhorn@mmm.com
|> 3M IS&DP Network Services		AT&T:	 +1 612 736 7122
|> St. Paul, MN				FAX:	 +1 612 736 7689
Xref: sparky seattle.general:4197 alt.bbs.lists:1612
From: yellowbd@eskimo.com (Andy Hubbell)
Newsgroups: seattle.general,alt.bbs.lists
Subject: Re: Puget Sound Computer User
Date: 20 Dec 92 21:42:57 GMT
Organization: -> ESKIMO NORTH (206) For-Ever <-
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1 PL6]

Well, as far as I'm concerned...  Who cares about the Computer User's
BBS list!  The Eskimo North BBS listing is far more accurate and
up-to-date, and I was using that as opposed to the one in the Computer
User long before I was a subscribing member of Eskimo!
  
                   --== Andy ==--
Newsgroups: seattle.general
From: dwdyer@eskimo.com (Wayne Dyer)
Subject: Re: FREE CHOICE QUESTION
Organization: -> ESKIMO NORTH (206) For-Ever <-
Date: Fri, 18 Dec 1992 02:53:39 GMT

sds@jazzie.com (Sean Shapira) writes:

[...]

>Allowing a government, no matter how well intentioned and no
>matter how democratic, to constrain any of our liberties is a
>threat to the sanctity of them all.  Our government was formed 
>to "secure the blessings of liberty," not to take them away.  

So in this frame, the question is :

Do people have the right to be protected from (take your pick) high
insurance costs, high health care costs, etc., and if so, is that right
more important that preserving the liberties that, when restrained, would
possibly reduce such costs?

P.S.  I side with you on this one.

-- 
Wayne Dyer, aka   || "I mistrust all systematizers and I avoid them.
dwdyer@eskimo.com ||  The will to a system is a lack of integrity."  F.W.N.
-- 
Wayne Dyer, aka   || "I mistrust all systematizers and I avoid them.
dwdyer@eskimo.com ||  The will to a system is a lack of integrity."  F.W.N.
Newsgroups: seattle.general
From: gwynne@stein.u.washington.edu (Kristan Geissel)
Subject: Urban Rationale (was: Re: Urban humor of sorts....)
Organization: University of Washington, Seattle
Date: Thu, 17 Dec 1992 17:32:42 GMT

In article <1992Dec17.082825.21690@u.washington.edu> bigstar@hardy.u.washington.edu (Ed Meese) writes:
>
>I filed this story under "urban humor"
>What really struck me though was that this man was truly *ENRAGED*...he
>looked as if I had murdered one of his own family...and it was all based
>on what he perceived to be errantly discarded trash.  Hmmn...
>

Whadda you wanna bet that this is one of the same people who jog on the
Foster Island/Arboretum trail?  Generally, that sort of reaction (that
strong) comes from those who ignore other rules.

Kristan 
gwynne@u.washington.edu
From: jdt@voodoo.boeing.com (Jim Tomlinson)
Newsgroups: seattle.general
Subject: Re: Christmas Lights
Keywords: Happy Christmas everyone!
Date: 18 Dec 92 01:38:33 GMT
Reply-To: jdt@voodoo.boeing.com
Distribution: seattle
Organization: BoGART To You, Buddy

In article <1992Dec17.153243.5933@beaver.cs.washington.edu>, david@cs.washington.edu (David Callahan) writes:
|> Which neighborhoods around the
|> city put on the most interesting
|> Christmas light displays?

There was an article in the Times last week; hopefully someone still
has the article and can summarize.  One house they missed in the
article is around 90th on 8th Ave. NW (Crown Hill area).  The family
there has densely covered their house and all their landscaping with
small, flashing lights.  My wife and I park in front of it for a few
minutes every night on our way home; it never loses its fascination.
-- 
Jim Tomlinson  jdt@voodoo.ca.boeing.com         "Two is one." - Dizzy
Newsgroups: seattle.general,pnw.general,alt.beer
From: dcb@rosedale.uucp (Dave Breneman)
Subject: Anybody seen Samiclaus?
Organization: The Spud Goodman Show
Distribution: wa
Date: Tue, 15 Dec 1992 04:14:39 GMT

Has anybody come across Samiclaus beer in the Puget Sound area?
I'd sure like to try this famous seasonal treat.  Thanks to any
who respond!

-- 
David Breneman               #################      Catch the Spud Goodman Show
The Spud Goodman Show         ####### #######          Saturdays at 11:00 PM on
dcb@rosedale.seaslug.org       #####   #####                KTZZ-22 in Seattle.
 ..uunet!tacoma!rosedale!dcb        (_)  - - - Ciao.        Get a loop antenna!
Newsgroups: seattle.general
From: David Ruggiero <osiris@halcyon.com>
Subject: Re: Happy with Honda of Seattle service?
Originator: osiris@halcyon.com
Reply-To: osiris@halcyon.halcyon.com (David Ruggiero)
Organization: [none - why fight entropy?]
Date: Thu, 17 Dec 1992 18:03:51 GMT

>In article <1992Dec16.175443.24112@u.washington.edu> monaghan@cac.washington.edu (Tracy Monaghan ) writes:
>>
>>I recommend High Road Automotive (formerly Dr. Honda) in Ballard.
>>They fixed the problem and for less, which to me was of less importance
>>since the car worked.  I've been going to them for years now.

I highly recommend High Road also; I used them for several years before I
traded my beloved Civic in for a Toyata wagon. Caveat emptor, however:
these guys are *obsessed* with perfection. They will tell you every single
thing they find wrong with the car and try to convince you that it needs
to be fixed NOW. This isn't a scam (they were correct about what they
said was wrong), but a healthy dose of skepticism and a bit of
"maybe we can take care of that next time" cut my bills with them down
in many cases. (Of course, my attitude may have been conditioned by the
fact that the car in question was twelve years old and I didn't feel that
it had to come out of the shop in factory-perfect mechanical condition
every time :).

Just another data point...

-- 
David Ruggiero  (jdavid@halcyon.com)       Seattle, WA: Home of the Moss People
From: allyn@sleepy.UUCP (Mark Allyn)
Newsgroups: seattle.general
Subject: Re: Computer Hardware Dealers...Who To Avoid
Summary: They *ARE* good for one thing
Date: 11 Dec 92 17:23:02 GMT
Distribution: seattle
Organization: Boeing Computer Services, Seattle

In article <1992Nov24.175842.21288@u.washington.edu>, bigstar@hardy.u.washington.edu (J Paschel) writes:
> One hardware dealer I always warn people about is the University Book
> Store - Computer Dept.  Aside from Academic pricing (which is *NOT* always
> the cheapest around) I have found little positive about this place.
> 

I would like to add my .02 to this discussion. 

Much as the Computer and Electroncs Department of the University Book
Store may be a challenge to deal with and may offend most people's sense
of morals and commitment to TQM (Total Quality Management); there is
one very nice feature of the main bookstore itself (I am talking about
the one on University Way).

Unlike many book stores, the University book store does not have someone
watching over you five feet away every second you are on their premises.

I have on many occasions heard of people going to the University Book 
Store, say, at ten o'clock on a Saturday morning, and reading books
from cover to cover right there in the aisles of the general and
text book sections. I have done it myself. I went to the general 
section, plucked out a copy of the book about EF Huttun's demise and
read the whole thing cover to cover and put it back on the shelf. No
one approached me or said anything as I left. Of course, I was carefull
to wash my hands beforehand so I would not soil the otherwise new book
and I was carefull not to fold the book back on itself as some people
do.

I also did the same experiment in the magazine section upstairs. I 
read Newsweek, Time, U.S. News and World Report, The Weekly, and others
before putting them back in the racks and leaving. A bunch of others
were doing the same thing; the lone clerk on the upper deck did not
say anything.

By comparison, I tried the same thing at the 7-11 store accross the
street from the Embassy Suites Hotel on Eastgate in Bellevue (close
to the Boeing Computer Services buildings) and nearly bot castrated
for standing there for more than two or three minutes.

So, complain if you must, but there are advantages you can reap.

Mark
Newsgroups: seattle.general
From: markmc@halcyon.com (Mark McWiggins)
Subject: Bellevue Honda is good (was: Happy with Honda of Seattle service?)
Organization: Northwest Nexus Inc. (206) 455-3505
Date: Thu, 17 Dec 1992 06:51:31 GMT

>[2 negative comments on Honda of Seattle service]

Gosh, glad I asked! :-)

I've actually been quite happy with Bellevue Honda. I'll just go back
there. Thought (mistakenly) I might be able to save a few bucks and
avoid driving across the bridge. Silly me!

Thanks again.
-- 
Mark McWiggins        Hermes & Associates		+1 206 632 1905 (voice)
markmc@halcyon.com    Box 31356, Seattle WA 98103-1356  +1 206 632 1738 (fax)
Newsgroups: seattle.general
From: nanook@eskimo.com (Robert Dinse)
Subject: Re: Condoms in Public Schools
Summary: We don't make driving cars intentionally dangerous
Organization: -> ESKIMO NORTH (206) For-Ever <-
Date: Sun, 13 Dec 1992 19:23:04 GMT

In article <1992Dec9.231636.12028@nwnexus.WA.COM>, edm@halcyon.com (Ed Morin) writes:
> kdahlst@uswnvg.com (Kevin Dahlstrom) writes:
> >fallen asleep as we slowly watch a generation die...
> 
> There are many areas in which irresponsibility will cost you your
> life.  Driving a car comes to mind...
> 
> Ed
> -- 
> Ed Morin

     Yes, but we don't intentionally make driving a car dangerous.  We do what
can be done to make it safer, seatbelts, air bags, shoulder straps, drunk
driving laws, etc.

     If we took your (Ed's) approach, those of us who thought driving is an
immoral act, after all it pollutes the environment, ruins the national economy
by making us dependent upon foreign energy resources, costs thousands of lives
each year, fuels wars where hundreds of thousands have died, etc, then instead
of requiring manufacturers to put seatbelts, airbags, and other safety devices
in cars, we'd do the opposite and require that none of those devices be present
heck, leave out the brakes while you're at it.  If people want to be safe, they
should not drive cars!

     There are some who believe the danger of promiscuous automobile driving
is part of our design!

Xref: sparky seattle.general:4152 pnw.general:2959 alt.society.civil-liberty:6960 alt.activism:19662 alt.individualism:6118 rec.bicycles.misc:1623 talk.politics.misc:64657
From: tomk@netcom.com (Thomas H. Kunich)
Newsgroups: seattle.general,pnw.general,alt.society.civil-liberty,misc.talk.politics,alt.activism,alt.individualism,rec.bicycles.misc,talk.politics.misc
Subject: Re: Freedom, Social Responsibility, Individual Responsibility
Date: 17 Dec 92 17:52:44 GMT
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services (408 241-9760 guest)

In article <1992Dec17.131523.25622@bmerh85.bnr.ca> paynter@bnr.ca (Stuart Paynter) writes:

>   Let's say you crack you head wide open on the side of the road.  Wouldn't
>   you want somebody to stop and help you.  If you were lying unconcious?
>   I am not talking about offending someone's sensitivities.

What does this have to do with helmet laws?>
>
>    And where exactly does the money come from to pay all these people?
>    Do you know how much a trip to the hospital costs?  I doubt that your
>    tax contribution alone over your lifetime would cover a single serious
>    trip to the hospital.

Apparently you don't have much idea of the costs of medical care and
insurance nor the tax rate I pay. I'll only say that a single years
taxes would pay for _many_ accidents.

As for insurance costs: your payment isn't suppose to pay for your
medical costs. The _group's_ insurance premiums are suppose to cover
the medical costs of the group and leave a profit for the issuing company.
Your belief that there is any connection between individual injuries and
premium costs is inacurate. More so since bicycling related injuries is
infinitesimally low when compared to other sources of accidental injury.

>    Maybe to those who are involved.  Everything must be taken in context.

You are proposing that it is OK for a group of people to regulate the actions
of an individual on statistical grounds despite the fact that the
statistics show that it isn't necessary and such regulation interferes
with the freedoms and liberties of that individual.

This is a very simple case of politicians using the relative political
weakness of a minority or disorganized group to make political hay.

>    Since you so politely asked, I will tell you.  I am not for or against
>    legislated helmet laws.  There are direct and indirect effects for 
>    every action that we take. 

You will excuse me if I interpret your message as a pretty elaborate
appology for those people whose reason for living is the control of 
others who might dare to have fun in life.
From: harryb@phred.UUCP (harry barnett)
Newsgroups: seattle.general
Subject: Re: Idiot e-mail
Date: 9 Dec 92 19:00:51 GMT
Reply-To: harryb@phred.UUCP
Distribution: seattle
Organization: Physio-Control

In article 1339@brat.wa.com, donn@brat.wa.com (Donn Pedro) writes:
>
>You know I try to be respectful of others opinions but, when I 
>relate the story I realted about my experiences with motorcycling
>and the tragedy that befell my family because my brother didn't
>bother to wear his, and I get this in e-mail, all bets are off.
>
>This idiocy deserves to be posted.
>
>  *** (Lots of rude blather deleted.)

>What is your fucking point?  Mine was that a helmet is better than no
>helmet.

Whatever his original point was, your have witlessly (unwittingly ?) made
another:  In your case, the system has NOT worked.  Yet.

>  *** (More rude blather deleted.)
>
>
>
>         Donn Pedro ....................a.k.a. donn@brat.wa.com
>	
>	       "You talk the talk.  Do you walk the walk?"

THIS, from someone who says:  "You know I try to be respectful of
others [sic] opinions"?  Why, you've witlessly made another point.
You're nothing but a hypocrite!

>
>		    There are no ordinary moments.

I'm sure that is certainly true for someone who takes offense where
none is intended, and gives offense where none is called for.  I am
sure you will take offense at this, for it is written:  " Rebuke a
fool, and he will hate you."

May you live in interesting times.

harryb@phred
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Brittanius (shocked):  Caesar, this is not proper.
Theodotus (outraged):  How?
Caesar (recovering his self possession):  Pardon him, Theodotus:  He is
a barbarian, and thinks that the customs of his tribe and islands are
the laws of nature.

		--Caesar and Cleopatra, Act II, George Bernard Shaw
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Newsgroups: seattle.general
From: David Ruggiero <osiris@halcyon.com>
Subject: Seattle roofing contractors?
Originator: osiris@halcyon.com
Reply-To: osiris@halcyon.halcyon.com (David Ruggiero)
Organization: [none - why fight entropy?]
Date: Wed, 16 Dec 1992 17:30:41 GMT


The roofing contractor I've used in the past seems to have gone the
way of the dodo bird, so I'm actively soliciting testimonials and/or
brickbats for Seattle-area residential re-roofers...anyone out there
with a low-cost/high-satisfaction experience to relate?

Thanks...
-- 
David Ruggiero  (jdavid@halcyon.com)       Seattle, WA: Home of the Moss People
Newsgroups: seattle.general
From: josh@Happy-Man.com (Joshua_Putnam)
Subject: Re: Mandatory Bicycle Helmets.
Reply-To: Joshua_Putnam@happy-man.com
Organization: Happy Man Corp., Vashon Island, WA 98070-7399
Date: Tue, 15 Dec 1992 20:49:27 GMT

In <1373@brat.wa.com> donn@brat.wa.com (Donn Pedro) writes:

>In article <1992Dec13.194019.20753@eskimo.com> 
>nanook@eskimo.com (Robert Dinse) writes:

>:As I mentioned, I
>:do not ride where there is auto traffic, and whilst it is remotely possible
>:that I could find a stationairy object to crash into head first, I view it as
>:unlikely.

>I don't want to sound too pessimistic, but I hope you are lucky, because
>human beings are fallable and make errors in judgement, tires go flat
>at the most inopportune times, and squirrels, rollerbladers, and kids  are
>damn near unpredictible.

Even if you have no forward speed, the force of landing on your 
head from a height of five feet can be enough to cause serious 
injuries.  In fact, a majority of cycling accidents are not 
motor-vehicle related.  According to many studies, bike paths are 
more dangerous than public roads.  These studies are subject to all 
sorts of criticisms, of course, but don't let the absence of cars 
give you a false security.  You still need to worry about other 
cyclists, unpredictable pedestrians, mechanical problems, and your 
own occasional inattention.  The last time I rode Burke-Gilman, for 
example, I had to choose between ditching the bike and running over 
an unattended tot who ran headlong into the trail.  Having a helmet 
on made that a much less serious choice.  

I ride a lot, on and off road, and I always wear a helmet.  They 
certainly can be annoying, but not as bad as halo braces and brain 
damage.  Or even a headache.

Still, a helmet law is a bad idea that will just add to the huge 
volume of laws the police are too busy to enforce except when they 
need an excuse to go after someone they don't like.  
-- 
 Joshua_Putnam@happy-man.com    Happy Man Corp.  206/463-9399 x102
 4410 SW Pt. Robinson Rd., Vashon Island, WA  98070-7399  fax x108
 We publish SOLID VALUE for the intelligent investor.  NextMail OK
Info free; sample $20: Send POSTAL addr: Solid-Value@happy-man.com
Newsgroups: seattle.general
From: davego@halcyon.com (Dave Oliphant)
Subject: Re: Christmas Lights
Keywords: Happy Christmas everyone!
Organization: The 23:00 News and Mail Service
Distribution: seattle
Date: Sat, 19 Dec 1992 05:34:16 GMT

In article <3526@voodoo.UUCP> jdt@voodoo.boeing.com writes:
>In article <1992Dec17.153243.5933@beaver.cs.washington.edu>, david@cs.washington.edu (David Callahan) writes:
>|> Which neighborhoods around the
>|> city put on the most interesting
>|> Christmas light displays?
>
>There was an article in the Times last week; hopefully someone still
>has the article and can summarize.  One house they missed in the
>article is around 90th on 8th Ave. NW (Crown Hill area).  The family
>there has densely covered their house and all their landscaping with
>small, flashing lights.  My wife and I park in front of it for a few
>minutes every night on our way home; it never loses its fascination.
>-- 
>Jim Tomlinson  jdt@voodoo.ca.boeing.com         "Two is one." - Dizzy

Here, Here!  I went by this house (actually closer to 89th and 8th ave.
NW), and it is stunning.  A must see for all the light watchers in
Seattle.

Merry Christmas all!!!!!

Newsgroups: seattle.general