HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: Mary.Evans@launchpad.unc.edu (Mary Evans)
Subject: Re: why OS/2
Organization: University of North Carolina Extended Bulletin Board Service
Distribution: na
Date: Mon, 11 Jan 1993 18:36:46 GMT

In article <BEDERS.93Jan11120505@disco-sun4.dfki.uni-sb.de> beders@dfki.uni-sb.de writes:
>In article <48041@ogicse.ogi.edu> francis@ese.ogi.edu (Francis Moraes) writes:
>
>   sdk@med.ge.com writes:
>
>   >After reading IBM literature, talking with one individual and
>   >thinking about the postings here I decided that I should post
>   >several questions and study the responses before making any
>   >purchases.
>   >
>   >1.  If you value the ability to multi task as a driver to use
>   >    OS/2, how much to you **really** multitask ?
>
>Most people think, that multi-tasking is only a matter
>of two distinct processes running asynchronous.
>But, what is often forgotten, you can multitask or
>better multithread IN an application.
>For a fast processor, it makes not much sense
>only quering a mouse and routing a message queue.
>Other useful things can be done in the meantime.
>Look at CorelDraw: While you`re choosing objects,
>CorelDraw connects them internally.
>Then, if you really want them to be connected, the
>work is already done.
>
>I can imagine much more things, where multithreading can be used.
>Sorting while the user enters data in a database,
>Saving, while an appl. prints to the spooler, etc.
>
>But here is an example out of life:
>One day, I was trying to connect to a local BBS.
>Not to say, that the BBS was always busy...
>Instead of waiting for the connect, I was installing 
>a DOS-Game on my FAT-Partition, and between disk-changes,
>I played another game.
>
>The BBS was still busy, so I started Emacs,
>loaded my current C-Projekt, made a few changes
>and compiled it via Emacs.
>Emacs started the make-process parallel, so I could
>change the documentation while compiling.
`
>That really saves time !
>I will never go back to a non-multitasking (or "kooperative Multitasking)
>OS. 

. . .and you only really have to *need* to multitask once, to toss out D** 
and W******3.anything!!  When I downloaded a file, printed a 40 page
document, played solitaire and "diddled" with my checking account, I Knew
I'd never go back.


--
   The opinions expressed are not necessarily those of the University of
     North Carolina at Chapel Hill, the Campus Office for Information
        Technology, or the Experimental Bulletin Board Service.
           internet:  laUNChpad.unc.edu or 152.2.22.80
Newsgroups: comp.os.os2.misc
From: kevin@wicat.com (Kevin Vigor)
Subject: Two questions for the gurus
Summary: Two problems I'm having and plea for help
Keywords: WPS startup append
Reply-To: kevin@elvis.wicat.com
Organization: WICAT Systems
Date: Wed, 6 Jan 1993 23:16:42 GMT


There are two minor problems I have been unable to solve in my OS/2 setup;
I'm hoping some guru out there can assist.

1: When I boot my system, the WPS tends to hang after running STARTUP.CMD.
On my home system, hitting Control-ESC makes it pop up after a minute with
the "desktop is not responding" message, and it then loads fine. This is
annoying, but tolerable. On my work system, however, things have gotten 
considerably worse since installing TCP/IP 1.2.1. The WPS now hangs almost
every time, and when I hit control-ESC, it actually pops up the task list 
and lets me select the desktop. It then takes up to 5 minutes to determine 
that the desktop is not responding, which is intolerable.
I am loading a large amount of stuff from my STARTUP.CMD now (sendmail, La
Mail) and pretty much overloading my poor 8 meg machine (more memory is on
order...). I have kept my system at CSD level XR02000 since it works, and
I have no urge to mess with it unless necessary. However, this is getting
to the point where I'm prepared to try anything... has this been addressed
in one of the CSDs/service packs/betas? Any other ideas?

2: When I run one of the external DOS programs in a DOS box (COMP, for
instance), I get the message SYS0318: Message file OSO001.MSG cannot be found.
The help for this message says that the file should be in my current directory
(not bloody likely!) and suggests using APPEND in a DOS Box to include the 
appropiate directory. Now, APPEND does indeed get rid of the problem, but
I've seen far too many cross-linked files and trashed FATs caused by APPEND
in my DOS days to feel comfortable about using it. Putting the directory 
(OS2/SYSTEM, in this case) in my DOS search path does not help. Can somebody
suggest a work-around, or reassure me that APPEND is really safe under OS/2
(on a FAT drive, if that makes any difference).

Thanks in advance!

-- 
		Peace & PopTarts, 
			Kevin
Email to the reply address will almost certainly bounce; use
72500.3705@compuserve.com
Newsgroups: comp.os.os2.misc
From: Brandon.Vanevery@launchpad.unc.edu (Brandon Vanevery)
Subject: An economical, OS/2-friendly systems vendor?
Organization: University of North Carolina Extended Bulletin Board Service
Date: Fri, 8 Jan 1993 09:14:45 GMT


I tried to buy a Gateway machine to do OS/2.  I wanted a Nec 4FG monitor,
a Tseng ET4000 VL-B card, and none of the DOS/Windows/Bundled Software stuff.
Gateway offered only a $150 rebate for removing the $400 ATI Ultra Pro
card, $0 for taking off any software, and only had Nec 3FGx monitors (no
Accu-Color).  I could get rid of the software, but I need the monitor and
see no way of getting rid of a 1MB Ultra Pro VLB.  Anyone with a VL-B
system is going to have a VL-B card already to take advantage of it.

Zeos and Dell offered 4FG monitors, but topped out around $4300.  Their
pricing structure pretty much includes their software profits, no matter
what configuration you try.

Compaq and IBM will steer you well, but their hardware is relatively
exhorbitant to begin with anyways.  I need to write ray tracers, so I'm
not interested in their "value point" systems.

Oyes, the system: 486DX2/66, 16MB, Nec 4FG, 340 MB HD, Tseng card.  Anyone
know of anyone who packages things better for under $4000?




 
--
   The opinions expressed are not necessarily those of the University of
     North Carolina at Chapel Hill, the Campus Office for Information
        Technology, or the Experimental Bulletin Board Service.
           internet:  laUNChpad.unc.edu or 152.2.22.80
Newsgroups: comp.os.os2.misc
From: sip1@ellis.uchicago.edu (Timothy F. Sipples)
Subject: Re: OS/2 with PS/2 56 (9556)
Reply-To: sip1@midway.uchicago.edu
Organization: Dept. of Econ., Univ. of Chicago
Date: Wed, 6 Jan 1993 04:22:46 GMT

In article <d9mikael.726120198@dtek.chalmers.se> d9mikael@dtek.chalmers.se (Mikael Wahlgren) writes:
>I just got an IBM PS/2 model 56 (clock-doubled 486SLC2) with an IBM PS/2
>Adapter/A Ethernet card (I think it is the same as WD card).  I have some
>problems...
>1.  The pre-loaded OS/2 2.0 was using the INT13 harddisk driver.  I tried
>    to use the IBM2SCSI.ADD driver instead but it wouldn't work.  Where
>    can I find the appropriate driver for the built in SCSI controller?
>    Otherwise I can't use my CD-ROM...

You need to also list:

BASEDEV=OS2SCSI.DMD

in your CONFIG.SYS.  Unfortunately, I can't remember the order (it may
not matter), but I think it comes second, just after IBM2SCSI.ADD.

>2.  I installed Lan Server 3.0 Requester on the machine.  Works fine
>    until you shutdown or reboot.  After reboot I get system configuration
>    error (17300 and 16300) at POST.  This clearly has something to do with
>    the network, as it only appears if I reboot after logging on to the
>    network.

Stupid question: have you run the Reference Disk?

>3.  How is the SCSI bus terminated?  If I connect an external device to
>    the SCSI port, should that device be terminated or not and should I
>    remove something (a terminator) in the machine?

Hopefully someone will have an answer to this question.  Have you
tried comp.sys.ibm.ps2.hardware?  (I think such a group exists.)

-- 
Timothy F. Sipples      | Read the OS/2 FAQ List 2.0h, available from
sip1@ellis.uchicago.edu | 128.123.35.151, anonymous ftp, in /pub/os2/all/info
Dept. of Econ., Univ.   | /faq, or from LISTSERV@BLEKUL11.BITNET (send "HELP")
of Chicago, 60637       | [Read the List, THEN post to ONE OS/2 newsgroup.]
Newsgroups: comp.os.os2.misc
From: 003316g@dragon.acadiau.ca (Steve Gregory)
Subject: Re: OS/2 and what version of DOS
Organization: Acadia University
Date: Tue, 5 Jan 1993 20:24:09 GMT

cnadler@vnet.ibm.com (Cliff Nadler) writes:

>In <1993Jan5.145242.9092@piston.detroit.ingr.com> goeckefw@piston.detroit.ingr.com (Fred Goeckel) writes:
>>What version of DOS dos OS/2 2.0 come with.  I though I read that it was
>>DOS 5.0 - is this true.  Also, If you have a machine setup for dual boot
>>with DOS and OS/2 - does OS/2 use the DOS on the machine or the DOS that
>>comes with OS/2.  Thanks - this info is very important to find out - I 
>>have a lunch riding on this.  Thanks again !!!!!

>OS/2 does not come with DOS. It includes an emulation of DOS at approximately
>the DOS 5.0 level (some things are missing, I forget what) for OS/2 2.0.

>Since the DOS is an emulation, only runnable under OS/2 2.0, it will only dual-
>boot to the DOS originally on your drive.

>Cliff Nadler
>IBM Federal Systems Company

>Note: This post represents the views of the poster, not those of IBM or the
>      IBM Federal Systems Company

   I have found that by tweaking the settings, namely path, for "dos from
drive A" object that I could infact boot from my dos partition while
inside OS/2. Only problem was that it tried to use the config.sys and
autoexec.bat files from the same drive which caused problems due to
various memory managers and diskcaches. I suppose however that if you
wanted a specific version of dos you could creat a pertion, install dos
and have it specifically for use with OS/2.

     If anyone wants the specifics, E-mail me and I will see what I can do.

-- 

steve.gregory@acadiau.ca 
Help my .sig file has left me and is seeking a divorce, what should I do ?
< She claims I've been seeing another .sig! >
From: reisert@sttng.mlo.dec.com (Jim Reisert)
Newsgroups: comp.os.os2.misc
Subject: 4OS2/32 1.1 Released
Date: 7 Jan 93 18:58:27 GMT
Reply-To: reisert@sttng.mlo.dec.com (Jim Reisert)
Distribution: inet
Organization: Digital Equipment Corporation -- Maynard, MA


From: 75300.1215@compuserve.com ("Mike Bessy [IBMNET]")
Newsgroups: comp.os.msdos.4dos
Subject: 4OS2/32 1.1 Released
Date: Wed, 6 Jan 93 17:22:16 EST

The following is a copy of the official anouncement we released a few
hours ago.

Those of you who do not have direct access to our suport library on
CompuServe should note that 4OS2/32 is expected to appear in the customary
ftp sites and BBS locations shortly, but please remember that we have no
control over those locations and can't give you specific file names or
directories.

        Mike Bessy [IBMNET]                      01-06-93
        JP Software                              16:17 CST

 *********************************************************

We are pleased to announce that the new 32-bit version of 4OS2, version 1.1,
has been uploaded to library 10 as 4OS232.ZIP, and should be available
shortly.

4OS2/32 is a significant upgrade from 4OS2 1.0, and offers a number of
features and enhancements, including:

   * Support for all 4OS2 1.0 features.

   * Full support for 32-bit flat memory model.

   * Improved 32-bit performance.

   * Control of DIR and SELECT time display format (AM/PM vs. 24-hour).

   * DEL /F option avoids copying files to the DELDIR directory.

   * DIR switch to specify the use of last access, creation, or last
     write time in directory displays and sorts on HPFS drives.

   * START allows specification of DOS settings from a file when
     starting DOS sessions.

   * New WINDOW command controls the 4OS2 window size / state from the
     prompt or from a batch file.

See the 4OS2-32.DOC file (in 4OS232.ZIP) for full details and on-line help for
all new features.  4OS2/32 works only with OS/2 2.0, and cannot be used under
OS/2 1.x.

If you are a registered user of 4OS2 1.0 you can download 4OS2/32 version 1.1
and BRAND it using your existing BRAND program and validation code.

4OS232.ZIP is organized as an update from 4OS2 1.0.  You must have 4OS2 1.0
installed before you can install 4OS2/32.

In a few weeks we expect to release version 1.1 of 4OS2, including many of the
above capabilities, for OS/2 1.x users.  At that time we will upload
integrated files which include both the 16- and 32-bit versions of 4OS2 1.1.

We encourage all 4OS2 users running under OS/2 2.0 to take advantage of this
new 32-bit technology and the additional enhancements offered by 4OS2 version
1.1!

Please post any questions about this new version via the proper
Technical Support channels.

                                                 ... Tom Rawson
                                                     JP Software
From: billt@cvedc.prime.com (Bill Tracy)
Newsgroups: comp.os.os2.misc
Subject: Re: Problems "running" a *.INF file... (check association for *.inf)
Date: 6 Jan 93 18:00:55 GMT
Article-I.D.: cvedc.1993Jan6.180055.4100
Organization: Computervision R&D, Beaverton OR

pynq@quads.uchicago.edu (Jeremy Mathers) writes:

>I d/l'd the OS2YOU.INF file from OS2YOU.ZIP - when I double click on the
>icon for the file, I get a VIEW.EXE error message, saying "Topic not found."

>However, when I go to an OS/2 window, and say "view os2you.inf", it
>seems to work fine - starts up a thread reading the file.  Why is this?

>************************************************************************
>"The rich are different from you and me."
>		- Fitzgerald -
>"Yes.  They have more money."
>		- Hemmingway -

>	- pynq@quads.uchicago.edu, who is still costing the net
>	  hundreds, if not thousands, of dollars, every time he posts -
>************************************************************************

Jeremy,

I had the same problem at one time.  Turned out that I had the association 
setting for *.inf on the Command Reference or another that already had a 
specific .inf file.  I removed that association, and setup the view.exe object
itself to have *.inf association.   Works great!

But, it sure can be a pain to find WHICH one already had the association!

Any suggestions from anyone on finding what object has an association set?

-- 


Bill Tracy 	                  ..tektronix!ogcvax!cvedc!wtracy
Prime Computer,Inc.			..sun!cvbnet!cvedc!wtracy
Newsgroups: comp.os.os2.misc
From: pprior@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (Paul A Prior)
Subject: Re: Any problems with Gateway 66V, and OS/2 2.0 or 2.1b?
Organization: The Ohio State University
Date: Mon, 4 Jan 1993 17:24:54 GMT

In article <1993Jan4.061449.7662@samba.oit.unc.edu> Brandon.Vanevery@launchpad.unc.edu (Brandon Vanevery) writes:
>
>I'm about ready to get a Gateway 66V, and plan to run the 2.1b on it. 
>Aside from silliness with ATI cards (I'll be using a Tseng), are there any
>problems with this box?  Can a happy Gateway 66V owner confirm that it's a
>good machine for OS/2?  Or a heartbroken one save me the trouble of
>repeating history?

Other than the ATI "silliness" I've had (KOW) no problems running 2.0.
I've not tried any of the betas yet.


-- 
--------pprior@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu----(614) 621-8240----------------
Paul A. Prior    Ban anchors, not reef tanks    Nuke Gay Whales for Jesus  
3rd year medical student 		        
The Ohio State U. College of Medicine   Tobacco Kills- Please don't smoke!
Newsgroups: comp.os.os2.misc
From: sip1@ellis.uchicago.edu (Timothy F. Sipples)
Subject: Re: OS/2 beta Ehanced Win 3.1 support
Reply-To: sip1@midway.uchicago.edu
Organization: Dept. of Econ., Univ. of Chicago
Date: Tue, 12 Jan 1993 05:01:45 GMT

In article <11JAN199321501644@pavo.concordia.ca> p_quinn@pavo.concordia.ca (QUINN, PAUL) writes:
>	Does the 2.1 beta support Win 3.1 ehanced mode?  If so how to I start
>Win in that mode?

Yes, it does.

There are a couple ways to do so.  One is to create a program object
which runs PROGMAN.EXE.  In the Win-OS/2 Settings for that object,
just change WIN_RUNMODE from standard to enhanced.

Another way is to change the Win-OS/2 Full Screen object that is
placed in your Command Prompts folder.  In the Optional Parameters
section, simply put:

/3

and Win-OS/2 will be started in enhanced mode.

-- 
Timothy F. Sipples      | Read the OS/2 FAQ List 2.0i, available from
sip1@ellis.uchicago.edu | 128.123.35.151, anonymous ftp, in /pub/os2/all/info
Dept. of Econ., Univ.   | /faq, or from LISTSERV@BLEKUL11.BITNET (send "HELP")
of Chicago, 60637       | [Read the List, THEN post to ONE OS/2 newsgroup.]
Newsgroups: comp.os.os2.misc
From: calvert@QueensU.CA (John Calvert)
Subject: minimized icon differs from program icon
Organization: Queen's University, Kingston, Canada
Date: Sun, 10 Jan 1993 04:07:42 GMT

Objects that I create for programs such as 4dos, WP, etc, don't use the
same icon when minimized as for the program object. The minimized icon
always ends up as some variation on the stock dos or os/2 icon. On the
other hand predefined objects like disk drives and os/2 specific games
minimize with the same icon as the program itself.

How do I set this?

-- 
John Calvert

calvert@mast.queensu.ca
From: pynq@quads.uchicago.edu (Jeremy Mathers)
Newsgroups: comp.os.os2.misc
Subject: Re: Shutdown - Won't After Service Pack Loaded
Keywords: OS/2, Service Pack
Date: 5 Jan 93 02:43:06 GMT
Reply-To: pynq@midway.uchicago.edu
Organization: D. J. Dougherty & Associates

In article <1993Jan4.163440.28839@piston.detroit.ingr.com> rimelsjj@piston.detroit.ingr.com (Jim Rimelspach) writes:
>After upgrading my 386SX w/ the Service Pack, the shutdown program doesn't
>work.  The confirmation dialog appears, OK is marked, after some disk
>activity the Workplace Shell is still there and active.
>
>Shutdown worked fine before the upgrade.
>
>Any ideas?

This happens periodically to me; I am (currently) running simple GA.
I just try it a few times, then reach for the three finger salute...

************************************************************************
The Zapruder film was a snuff film.

	- pynq@quads.uchicago.edu, who is still costing the net
	  hundreds, if not thousands, of dollars, every time he posts -
************************************************************************
Newsgroups: comp.os.os2.misc
From: sip1@ellis.uchicago.edu (Timothy F. Sipples)
Subject: Re: Fax Software for OS/2
Followup-To: comp.os.os2.apps
Reply-To: sip1@midway.uchicago.edu
Organization: Dept. of Econ., Univ. of Chicago
Date: Thu, 7 Jan 1993 20:19:51 GMT

In article <93007.100141CATHIE@SLACVM.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU> <CATHIE@SLACVM.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU> writes:
>Does anyone have experience with FaxWorks OS/2, "software that allows users
>to send and receive faxes directly from OS/2 and Windows applications running
>in the OS/2 Workplace Shell Desktop and in WIN-OS/2 by simply using the print
>command"?

Hearty recommendations -- great product.

-- 
Timothy F. Sipples      | Read the OS/2 FAQ List 2.0h, available from
sip1@ellis.uchicago.edu | 128.123.35.151, anonymous ftp, in /pub/os2/all/info
Dept. of Econ., Univ.   | /faq, or from LISTSERV@BLEKUL11.BITNET (send "HELP")
of Chicago, 60637       | [Read the List, THEN post to ONE OS/2 newsgroup.]
Newsgroups: comp.os.os2.misc
From: ifox@wam.umd.edu (Ira "Isa" Fox)
Subject: fed up with ATI need info on ET4000
Organization: University of Maryland, College Park
Distribution: usa
Date: Wed, 6 Jan 1993 01:55:57 GMT

   Hello fellow os2'ers,

   I just installed the 2.1 beta on my system.  I was so excited when there
was ati support for 256 colors on the pm.  What a disapointment to find that they don't work very well.  for example I lost all my fonts except one, the screen
goes out sync when switch back in fourth from dos apps(does return to normal though).   I was setting up new IBM value point 425sx's.  The video support for the et4000 machines are ausome. 

    To make a long story short(I tried!) is tsueng et4000 the chip set on these
cards.  What cards use the tsueng et4000 chip???
                     Any help would be most appreciated...   I already check
the faq. 
                            - ira
                          ifox@wam.umd.edu
/Nowhere/.sig
From: jyouells@cup.portal.com (John A Youells)
Newsgroups: comp.os.os2.misc
Subject: Re: Bug report for IBM1S506.ADD from SPB506.ZIP
Date: Tue, 12 Jan 93 21:10:16 PST
Organization: The Portal System (TM)


I also had to return to the 11-18-92 release of ibms506.add to regain 
access to my 2nd HD on a WD1006-sr2 RLL controller the 12-19 release 
would not work. 
-jay
From: skagos@mercury.cs.uregina.ca (Takis Skagos)
Newsgroups: comp.os.os2.misc
Subject: Trident driver DOS Full-Screen problems ....
Date: 8 Jan 93 17:58:42 GMT
Organization: University of Regina, SK, Canada

Aloha,

  A couple of weeks ago I installed the new Trident drivers,
except for VSVGA.SYS (because it didn't work).  Everything worked
well.  A couple of weeks after that I installed the even newer
Trident drivers, and everything worked even better.  Since then,
however, some of my Full-Screen DOS sessions are all screwed up.
The characters are all replaced with other characters (mostly u, w, x,
and z) ... it is weird.  If I ALT-HOME to get it as a window, the
display fixes itself, but if I do ALT-HOME again to get it Full-Screen,
the display screws up.  If anyone else is experiencing this problem,
I'd really like to hear about it (and maybe even a possible soultion).
Thanks!
 
  P. Takis Skagos
  (skagos@cs.uregina.ca)
Newsgroups: comp.os.os2.misc,comp.os.msdos.misc,comp.periphs.scsi
From: tadams@sbctri.sbc.com (Tom. Adams 529-7860)
Subject: Willing to unzip files under OS2?
Organization: Southwestern Bell Technology Resources, St.Louis, MO
Date: Sat, 9 Jan 93 03:40:17 GMT

OS2 zip files are unintelligible to the zip programs I've seen under 
DOS and Unix. I've only seen gtak source zipped under os/2, but I believe
the code works for DOS also.  Is there someone out there willing to unzip the 
files under os2 and repackage them in something readable from DOS.
I'm looking for both gtak100s.zip and gtak210s.zip.  I believe I know
why gtar doesn't see end of tape with the emulex mt02, and I need to
be recompile gtar to fix it.  Please get in touch if you're willing
to help.  Thanks




-- 
Tom Adams	tadams@sbctri.sbc.com 	Voice 314-529-7860, FAX 314-529-7573
If we bounce your mail, and you can fax me the errors, it would be greatly
appreciated.  I need it to get someone to address the email problems here.
From: glenw@remus.rutgers.edu (Glenn T. Wasserman)
Newsgroups: comp.os.os2.misc
Subject: ATI XL w/TRI32new.exe
Date: 6 Jan 93 19:27:55 GMT
Organization: Rutgers Univ., New Brunswick, N.J.


Well, the success with the drivers seems to be limited to the ATI
wonder...
 the system with the VGA Wonder XL won't allow an SVGA ON DOS (under
DOS, OS/2, or whatever). It says that the board is not VESA-compliant.
I thought that it was directly compatible with the Wonder (just
faster). Is this the truth? Am I doing something wrong? I think I was
one of the first to get this driver set working with the ATI wonder,
so I think I basically know what I'm doing. But the SVGA ON won't
work.
    :(

-Glenn
-- 
*	Glenn Wasserman - Rutgers University - Computer Science  	*
*************************************************************************
*	glenw@remus.rutgers.edu	*	glenw@gandalf.rutgers.edu	*
*************************************************************************
From: eapg115@orion.oac.uci.edu (Hans A. Baumgartner ----- (hbaum@uci.edu))
Subject: Removing OS/2 safely (with dual-boot)
Newsgroups: comp.os.os2.misc
Organization: University of California, Irvine
Date: 8 Jan 93 06:59:11 GMT
Distribution: usa

Help, I need to remove OS/2 2.0 from my disk.  I have it set up with dual
boot (boot /os2...). How do I safely remove it.  Can I get rid of the 
bootstrap w/o reformatting?

Thanks!

Hans Baumgartner
hbaum@uci.edu
UCI Department of Physics

--
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Hans Baumgartner, UCI Physics Dept              hbaum@uci.edu
-----Please note my new E-mail address--------> ^^^^^^^^^^^^^
-----Much easier isn't it!