HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: mworley@mathcs.emory.edu (Meg Worley)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
Subject: Re: Remedial Math
Date: 23 Jan 1993 10:11:28 -0500
Organization: Emory University, Dept of Math and CS
NNTP-Posting-Host: emory.mathcs.emory.edu

Mikhail: 
> > The New York Times informs me that *all* graduates of a certain
> > liberal arts college are expected to have received instruction in two
> > languages, ancient and modern, and to have read, among other things,
> > Dedekind's classic essay on the nature of numbers.  I like that.

Mark: 
> St. John's in Annapolis -- the school that reads the Great Books
> (you know -- dead white guys).

As well as St. John's in Santa Fe NM.  Same dead white guys (that
refers both to the trustees and the subjects of study).

Rage away,

meg

-- 

 Meg Worley 				Internet:  mworley@mathcs.emory.edu		
Xref: sparky rec.arts.books:25877 talk.politics.soviet:10633 soc.culture.soviet:12283 soc.culture.jewish:25790
From: ryyti@jyu.fi (Jarmo Ryyti)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books,talk.politics.soviet,soc.culture.soviet,soc.culture.jewish
Subject: Re: My .2*10^(-2) $ (Was: Robert Conquest's _The Great Terror_)
Date: 21 Jan 93 13:16:25 GMT
Organization: University of Jyvaskyla, Finland
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1 PL6]

Igor Pankevich (igor@cs.columbia.edu) wrote:
: In article <1993Jan18.095354.11382@jyu.fi>, ryyti@jyu.fi (Jarmo Ryyti) writes:
: > 
: > Kronstatdt? Do you mean this old ingrian island called Retusaari in the
: > front of Pietari (StPburg) former Nevanlinna?
: > jr
: 
: I believe Michael means exactly what he says: an island called Kronstadt near
: the city of St. Petersburg on the river Neva (not the one in Florida).
: Please stop making Finland the center of the world.
: 
: --Igor P.

To be quite precise: the fortress is Kronstadt, the island is Retusaari.
Later on the island was called Kronstadt according to the fortress.
StPetersburg is an a place of an old ingrian town called Nevanlinna.
The main island in the river mouth of Neva is Janissaari (Rabbit Island)
of its old name. The area were StPburg lies was not an devasted, unhabited
area even if the poets so write. (I refer to Mr. Lotman junior, an estonian
semiotician who told this while visiting Suomi)
jr
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
From: starr@genie.slhs.udel.edu (Tim Starr)
Subject: Re: Censorship
Organization: UDel, School of Life & Health Sciences
Date: Wed, 27 Jan 1993 05:42:49 GMT

Interestingly enough, in San Francisco, a city-wide ballot initiative was
passed over a year ago declaring the area's "community standards" to be
tolerance of diversity and opposition to censorship of any kind.  This doesn't
seem to have stopped the Feds from seizing the homosexual porn shops owned
by one guy, although this may have been done prior to the passage of the
initiative.

Censorship in the USA isn't limited to dirty books, or even books.  Since
the "commercial speech" exception to the 1st amendment was fabricated,
advertising has been censored.  The FDA censors claims of efficacy on the
labels or other promotional material for vitamins, nutritional supplements,
and even scientific journals.  The employees of the Federal government are
censored from talking publicly about parts of their jobs; when John Stockwell
left the CIA and wrote a book, the CIA sued and won his royalties, which
isn't quite censorship, but close.  The NSA has made noises about censoring
cryptography, I think.


Tim Starr - Renaissance Now! - Think Universally, Act Selfishly
starr@genie.slhs.udel.edu

"True greatness consists in the use of a powerful understanding to enlighten
oneself and others." - Francois Marie Arouet Voltaire
From: lsc@chryse.Eng.Sun.COM (Lisa S Chabot)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
Subject: Re: Harlan Ellison questions
Date: 27 Jan 1993 02:22:49 GMT
Organization: Ars Magna Lucis et Umbrae
NNTP-Posting-Host: chryse


Yeah, well, Underwood Miller is mildly obscure--the kind of
publisher you're not likely to find in the chains.  Anybody
who's serious about finding Ellison's essays should at least
be darkening the door of their local science fiction bookstore.

And DreamHaven has a mailing list (or used to), if you live
in a desert.

-- 
All power corrupts, but we need electricity.
Xref: sparky rec.arts.books:26120 alt.usage.english:10967
From: francis@oas.stanford.edu (Francis Muir)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books,alt.usage.english
Subject: that/which/who
Date: 23 Jan 1993 14:11:50 GMT
Organization: Stanford Exploration Project
NNTP-Posting-Host: oas.stanford.edu

Roger Lustig writes:

	Various English Bibles over the centuries have given "Our 
	Father, that/which/who art in heaven..."  Seems to me that, 
	given the direct form of address, the "that" is non-restrictive; 
	why bother to distinguish from all other fathers?

	Anyway, it's not very common anymore; one hears a non-restrictive 
	"that" in the spoken dialect, but rarely sees it written.

A nice example. In England, the choice is part of a litmus test. "Our
Father, Which art" is Church of England while "Our father, Who art" is
Roman Catholic. 

						RABworm
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
From: fi@grebyn.com (Fiona Webster)
Subject: Re: Deconstructing Angelou
Organization: Grebyn Timesharing
Date: Fri, 22 Jan 1993 16:09:37 GMT

Francis Muir writes:
>On a related matter, did anyone else notice how often the Radio and TV 
>Johnnies granted Maya Italian citizenship? Maya Angelo: a cross-town 
>rival to Mama Celeste, perhaps.

Rod Williams writes:
>That is the way Ms. Angelou herself insists her name
>be pronounced (according to a different issue of The
>New York Times).

*Italian* citizenship?  Gack!!  Did they really say she was Italian,
Francis, or simply pronounce her name as (Rod correctly points out)
she wishes it pronounced?

				--a rare sort of Texan who, having
				  lived and worked in Arkansas, is
				  an enthusiast for Angelou's home
				  state,

							Fiona
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books,alt.president.clinton
From: boltz@chopin.psu.edu (Mark Boltz)
Subject: Re: Maya Angelou inaugural poem
Organization: Penn State University
Date: Mon, 25 Jan 93 15:10:07 GMT

Seems to me that as you noticed who was/was not included in the poem, be they
English or Iguanan or whatever, you missed the point of the poem completely.
She was trying to say, "Let us forget this past, this horrible history of
ours - of wars, oppression, suppression of rights - and look to a common fu-
ture.  It's time for us all to stop bickering like little kids over who's in
what group and work *together* as AMERICANS to get this country back on it's 
feet.  As long as we stay divided into lots of little, tiny special interest
groups all begging to get our own little programs and our own little rights 
we're gonna get absolutely nowhere.

How was it a certain ENGLISHMAN put it?  United we stand, divided we fall...

Come on, let's you and me work TOGETHER to make this a better place for ALL
of us.

So we can say simply
"Very simply...
Good morning"

------------------------                        ------------------------------
boltz@vivaldi.psu.edu                         The Pennsylvania State University
"Buster" Boltz, Toonster Extraordinare                "...no relation"
"Dost thou not know, my son, with how little wisdom the world is governed?"
					Count Oxenstierna (1583-1654)
------------------------                        ------------------------------

Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
From: faunt@netcom.Netcom.COM (Doug Faunt N6TQS 510-655-8604)
Subject: Re: Selected Shorts
Organization: at home, in Oakland
Date: Sun, 24 Jan 1993 03:18:54 GMT

I believe that ACT, in San Francisco, is starting this up here.
I'll have to check it out.
Xref: sparky rec.arts.books:26203 talk.politics.soviet:10696
From: alexlehm@iti.informatik.th-darmstadt.de (Alexander Lehmann)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books,alt.conspiracy
Subject: 33, 19, 17 (Where are you going, Where have you been?)
Date: 22 Jan 1993 13:40:44 GMT
Organization: Technische Hochschule Darmstadt
NNTP-Posting-Host: sun4.iti.informatik.th-darmstadt.de
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1 PL8]

Hello,

  we have been reading a story by Joyce Carol Oates in a course about American
short stories that was called "Where are you going, Where have you been?"

I kind of liked it and was quite impressed by the various tracks an
interpretation could lead. There was, however, one passage that we could make
any sense of.

One of the main characters called 'Arnold Friend' has a car that is covered
with various word and phrases. Additionally there are some numbers.

"Now, these numbers are a secret code, honey," Arnold Friend explained. He
read off the numbers 33, 19, 17 ...

I was thinking that these number could mean something and tried the usual
tricks like adding, multiplying etc. but I didn't find anything significant.

Maybe somebody could give me pointers to what the numbers could mean.

thanks in advance ... bye

--
Alexander Lehmann                       | "Wopp"
alexlehm@iti.informatik.th-darmstadt.de |         -  ( THHGTTG Pt.3 )
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
From: abl@cybill.inesc.pt (Antonio Leal)
Subject: Re: Books we're too righteous to censor-- but would like to
Organization: INESC - Inst. Eng. Sistemas e Computadores, LISBOA. PORTUGAL.
Date: Sat, 23 Jan 1993 16:00:46 GMT

jahb@ns1.cc.lehigh.edu (JENNIFER A. HEISE) writes:
>
> Let's talk about what books that we would *like* to censor, but we are too
> damn PC or right-to-read or whatever to suggest.
 
> My first candidate:
> Jude the Obscure.  Not for everyone-- just not to be taught in the
> schools. It's sexist, fatalist, and just plain depressing. Asking
> teenagers to read it is incitement to suicide.
> Any objections? Anyone in favor? Anyone care for a mint?

Nah, that's Goethe's The Sorrows of Young Werther, or whatever.
Its publishing was followed by a spate of suicides (around 1800
something).

I read it as a teenager, and kept thinking, "Sheesh, what's his
problem ?  What a dunce."  Darn, teenagers are so insensitive.

I'll have a mint, thank you.  Can you make it the U.S. Mint, not
the Franklin Mint, please ?

(If you're shooting for "depressing", I'd suggest that K. Vonnegut,
Thomas Disch, J.G. Ballard, W. Burroughs, Martin Amis, etc. make much
better targets.  Hell has no bile like an optimist disappointed.)

--
Antonio B. Leal		| IST / INESC
+351.1.310 0300		| R. Alves Redol 9, 1000 Lisboa
abl@inesc.pt		| Portugal
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
From: wwhitman@nevada.edu (MICHAEL WISE)
Subject: Re: Novels about writers
Organization: University of Nevada System Computing Services
Date: Tue, 26 Jan 1993 18:23:38 GMT


>In article <1993Jan25.015009.42051@ns1.cc.lehigh.edu>, arc2@ns1 (AMY CHARLES) writes:
>>Anybody read any good books w/writer as protagonist lately?

The Paper Men, by William Golding. A living legend (like Golding himself)
is hounded by a young literature professor who wants to become his official
biographer. Golding's poetic prose (The Lord of the Flies is the most famous
of his works, but he has consistently brought the crystallized style of 
poetry to his works of fiction. His description of Hell in Darkness Visible
is both richly evocative and terrifying) tells the comic story of the
living legend's attempts to elude the professor.

I read a review of a new book about Hunter S. Thompson in the New York 
Times, a combination of biography and fiction where the author's character, 
a young woman, goes to interview Thompson in Aspen, and ends up being chased 
around the room by him. Quote: "Most biographers wish their subjects were
alive so that they could go and interview them. I wish my subject were dead." 
However, I don't remember the author's name.


___________________________________________________________________________
Michael Wise 	(wwhitman@nevada.edu)	UNLV English

"Now I want you to tell me just one thing more. Why do you hate the South?"
"I dont hate it," Quentin said quickly, at once, immediately; "I dont
hate it," he said. I dont hate it he thought, panting in the cold air, 
the iron New England dark: I dont. I dont. I dont hate it! I dont hate it!
				--William Faulkner, Absalom! Absalom!



Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
From: cass8806@elan.rowan.edu (Kyle Cassidy)
Subject: hemingway anybody?
Organization: Rowan College of New Jersey
Date: Thu, 21 Jan 1993 18:03:08 GMT

anyone out there care to discuss hemingway via e-mail?
Organization: University of Illinois at Chicago
Date: Mon, 25 Jan 1993 11:40:17 CST
From: <U19807@uicvm.uic.edu>
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
Subject: Re: "Harlan Ellison's Watching" by Harlan Ellison
 <1k0rebINNjhp@transfer.stratus.com>

In article <1k0rebINNjhp@transfer.stratus.com>, lmann@vineland.pubs.stratus.com
(Laurie Mann) says:

>I think he was talking about that "classic," The Oscar.

Oh,most definitely...his references to it in _The Glass Teat_ make it seem
like Harlan cringes merely by typing in the _title_,much less talking about
it at length. To my knowledge,the only other thing he's written which causes
him as much reluctance is his novel _The Man With Nine Lives_,which also got
mentioned in an extremely derogatory fashion somewhere else.

      ** Chris Krolczyk,esq.  * DISCLAIMER: My opinions are in **
      ** Maniac-at-Large      * no way endorsed by the Univer- **
      ** U19807@UICVM.BITNET  * sity of Illinois at Chicago.   **
      ** u19807@uicvm.uic.edu * So much for frivolous lawsuits.**
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books,talk.politics.soviet
From: vzhivov@alfred.carleton.ca (Vladimir Zhivov)
Subject: Re: Robert Conquest's _The Great Terror_F
Organization: Carleton University
Date: Wed, 27 Jan 1993 06:13:42 GMT


This thread has degenerated into verbal diarrhea - can we talk about
something else; for instance, the shifting of Russian foreign policy
more and more in support of Serbia.

                                                            Vladimir
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books,comp.graphics.visualization
From: dfs@lestat.bellcore.com (Deborah Swayne)
Subject: Re: Visual Display of Quantitative Information by Tufte
Organization: Morristown Research and Engineering
Date: Mon, 25 Jan 93 15:23:33 GMT

In article <1jvpc9INNnc4@shelley.u.washington.edu>, cyberoid@stein.u.washington.edu (Robert Jacobson) writes:
|> 
|> Tufte is a professor of statistics at Yale.
|> 

He's in the Political Science department, actually.
 
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books,talk.politics.soviet,soc.culture.soviet
From: roger@crux.Princeton.EDU (Roger Lustig)
Subject: Re: Pigs is Pigs
Originator: news@nimaster
Reply-To: roger@astro.princeton.edu (Roger Lustig)
Organization: Princeton University
Date: Thu, 21 Jan 1993 20:43:50 GMT

In article <105979@netnews.upenn.edu> weemba@sagi.wistar.upenn.edu (Matthew P Wiener) writes:
>In article <1jkfisINNta@shelley.u.washington.edu>, twain@milton (Barbara Hlavin) writes:
>>>I guess this is the sort of response you'd expect from someone who really
>>>*has* never heard the William Tell Overture accompanying the Lone Ranger,
>>>but anyway...  I've read "Pigs is Pigs" but never heard of the others; it's
>>>a story about an obstructive railway official who refuses to let a shipment
>>>of a breeding pair of guinea pigs go at the small-pet rate and insists on
>>>impounding them till he gets the full porker fee, right?  Who wrote it?

>>Right.  And they kept breeding, and the rates mounted, and... 

>>I think it was written by Stephen Leacock. 

>Definitely not.  My copy of PIGS IS PIGS is in storage, but that situation
>is hopefully not lasting for too much longer.  I only remember that the
>author was someone I had never heard of.

Ellis Parker Butler, who (according to the title page) was also:

   Author of "That Pup," "Mike Flannery," "The Thin Santa Claus," 
   "The Water Goats," etc.

In other woids, a literary figure to be reckoned with...

Anyway, it's a relic of the time when dialect humor was still funny.  

>Disney made an animated version of the story.  I would assume that this
>is far more likely to be the direct inspiration for "The Trouble with
>Tribbles" than the written story itself.

I think either one would be a stretch as a direct inspiration.

Roger
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books,rec.arts.poems
From: jmc@SAIL.Stanford.EDU (John McCarthy)
Subject: Re: New prize
Reply-To: jmc@cs.Stanford.EDU
Organization: Computer Science Department, Stanford University
Date: 27 Jan 93 23:14:23

In article <1k7ut1INN8gj@morrow.stanford.edu> francis@oas.stanford.edu (Francis Muir) writes:

   Xref: CSD-NewsHost.Stanford.EDU rec.arts.books:58677 rec.arts.poems:29655
From: nichael@bbn.com (Nichael Cramer)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
Subject: Re: For Thine is the kingdom
Date: 28 Jan 93 14:26:26 GMT
	<1k43a7INNovj@shelley.u.washington.edu>
Reply-To: ncramer@bbn.com
Organization: BBN, Interzone Office
NNTP-Posting-Host: kariba.bbn.com
In-reply-to: hoosiers@carson.u.washington.edu's message of 26 Jan 1993 19:27:03 GMT

hoosiers@carson.u.washington.edu (Mary Loveless) writes:
   johnston@fys.ruu.nl (Helen Johnston) writes: 
   >In article <d6n3qd#@rpi.edu> kasprj@rpi.edu writes:
   >> All right, I tripped up a bit here. It isn't said at the end of the Lord's 
   >>Prayer. But I could have sworn that _somewhere_ in the Catholic Mass that I
   >>remember going to (not so long ago that it was in Latin), there occurs the 
   >>line: "For the kingdom, the power, and the glory are yours, now and forever".
   >Yes, yes; after you get to the "...deliver us from evil" bit, the
   >congregation stops and the priest says "Deliver us, Lord, from every
   >evil..." (mumble mumble: I haven't been to Mass THAT recently!), after
   >which the congregation continues "For the kingdom, the power, and the
   >glory are yours, now and for ever" (in the new, nasty Catholic
   >translation). You weren't hallucinating.
   "For Thine is the kingdom....." is the Protestant version.  Said it every
   Sunday, at the end of the LP, at New Hope Evangelical United Brethren
   Church, for many years.

The ultimate confusion over whether or not to include this passage
(aka "the Doxology") at the end the Lord's Prayer is ultimately one
involving the manuscript/textual history of the New Testament.

Specifically, the Doxolgy occurs at the end of the Matthew's version
of the Lord's Prayer in only a handful (<~10) of the later Greek
manuscripts (where it appears in a variety of forms).  It is
universally acknowledged not to be part of the original form.

(It is generally believed to have entered the manuscript tradition
because it was initially a common form for the liturgical ending of a
prayer, much as today we would use "Amen" --which also occurs at this
point in a few of the manuscripts.)

The Doxology is so widely known today primarily because it was
included in the so-called "Textus Receptus" which, until relatively
recently, served as the "standard" Greek text of the NT.  The TR is
now understood to be a relatively late and somewhat corrupt version of
the Greek text.  Nonetheless, it served as the basis for many of the
more famous/popular translations of the NT, most notably the King
James (or Authorized) Version (which, as has been pointed out,
includes the Doxology).

The Doxology is never included in the --somewhat different and
shorter-- version of the Lord's Prayer that occurs in Luke.  So far as
I know it occurs in none of the Greek manuscripts of Luke (at least it
is not listed among the variant readings of the edition [Nestle26]
that I have at hand).

Nichael
ncramer@bbn.com                     "Pull Down; Tear Up" --Don Martin
From: cramer@optilink.COM (Clayton Cramer)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
Subject: Re: Back to Homeschool (was: Style vs substance)
Date: 20 Jan 93 22:26:17 GMT
Organization: Optilink Corporation, Petaluma, CA

In article <1jep02$f37@agate.berkeley.edu>, spp@zabriskie.berkeley.edu (Steve Pope) writes:
> Heather writes:
# #Of course you're moralizing.  At least, you were in the original
# #post that I responded to way back when.  You were saying --
# #correct me if I'm wrong -- "I think homeschooling is wrong, and
# #therefore I'm going to strongly discourage people from doing it."
# 
# That isn't quite what I said.  I said that if the main societal
# effect of homeschooling is to create litle training camps
# for little neo-nazis, then this is a problem outweighing
# any of the benefits of homeschooling, and if so it ought to
# be discouraged.

Hmmm.  Let's consider how certain other factions in our society
might similarly reason: "If the main societal effect of public
schooling is to create little training camps for homosexuals,
then this is a problem outweighing any of the benefits, and
so it ought to be discouraged."  Mr. Pope and Jerry Falwell
agree on methods, they only disagree about the ends.

# ##Self-righteous parents, who think they have some sort of
# ##priority, are one of the more onerous entities that
# ##society needs to protect kids from.
# #
# #Excuse me -- parents *do* have priority.  The responsibility for
# #their children rests with them and *not* the state, until the state
# #can prove that they are unfit to care for their children.  
# 
# No, parents do *not* have priority.  They have great latitude
# in how they determine what happens to children in their
# custody, but they or any other form of legal
# guardian is an agent of the state, who has ultimate responsibility.
# 
# Steve

The essential liberal position so ably attacked in _Animal Farm_,
where Orwell describes the puppies being taken away for "instruction,"
not to be seen again until they are full grown killers.

-- 
Clayton E. Cramer {uunet,pyramid}!optilink!cramer  My opinions, all mine!
"When freedom destroys order, order will destroy freedom." -- Eric Hoffer
Not a goal, just a statement of reality.
From: arc2@ns1.cc.lehigh.edu (AMY CHARLES)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
Subject: Re: Books we're too righteous to censor-- but would like to
Date: 23 Jan 93 02:40:15 GMT
Organization: Lehigh University

In article <1993Jan22.162723.79581@ns1.cc.lehigh.edu>, jahb@ns1.cc.lehigh.edu (J
ENNIFER A. HEISE) writes:
>OK, guys: time for a new flame war.
>Let's talk about what books that we would *like* to censor, but we are too
>damn PC or right-to-read or whatever to suggest.
>    My first candidate:
>    Jude the Obscure.  Not for everyone-- just not to be taught in the
>    schools. It's sexist, fatalist, and just plain depressing. Asking
>    teenagers to read it is incitement to suicide.

Ha!  How about Of Human Bondage?  A completely depressing book about
early-twenties confusion -- I vote we stop harrassing 9th graders with it.
Also, no sales of Ayn Rand to anyone over 19.   Whoopee.  We can use the story
of Alan Greenspan as a cautionary tale.


Amy Charles
Allentown PA




>    Any objections? Anyone in favor? Anyone care for a mint?
>
>
>
>--
>Jennifer Heise                           Net: jahb@lehigh.edu
>Reference Dept.,                         Phone: (215) 758-3072
>Fairchild-Martindale Libraries #8A,  Lehigh University, Bethlehem, PA 18015
>My opinions are my own. No one else would HAVE them anyway.
>
>"The toad beneath the harrow knows Exactly where each tooth-point goes;
>The butterfly upon the road Preaches contentment to that toad."  Kipling
>