HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: bruce@zuhause.MN.ORG (Bruce Albrecht)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
Subject: Re:  Advocacy? What do you want for the Amiga?
Distribution: world
Date: 11 Jan 93 23:58:46 CST
Organization: Society to Stamp Out Bogus Organizations

In article <C0MEA7.MwA@news.iastate.edu> barrett@iastate.edu (Marc N. Barrett) writes:
>   I compare standalone word processors to standalone word processors, and
>integrated software (like 'works' packages) to integrated software.  So when
>I need to compare Final Copy II or ProWrite to something, I compare them 
>to MS Word or Word Perfect for MAC/Windows .  After all, Final Copy II, 
>ProWrite, MS Word, and Word Perfect are all standalone word processors.  But
>when comparing software in 'works' packages, it should be compared to 
>similar software in other 'works' packages.  Thus, if Commodore were to write
>a 'works' package to be included with some Amiga system, the included word
>processing, spreadsheet, database, and drawing software would be compared to
>the word processing, spreadsheet, database, and drawing software included
>with Claris Works or MS Works.  (However, Commodore should endeavor to make
>the software much better than the software in other 'works' packages, because
>Commodore has lots and lots of catching up to do)

That's not Commodore's job.  What you're suggesting is equivalent to telling
Compaq they need to write their own "works" package to supply on Compaq
computers, because the ones supplied by Lotus and Microsoft aren't good enough
for you.  Now if Commodore wanted to bundle a "works" package with some model
of the Amiga, they might want to encourage one of the Amiga "works" package
developers to beef up their product.

--
bruce@zuhause.mn.org
Youth is wasted on the young.
From: bloc1469@ee.ee.uwm.edu (Gregory R Block)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
Subject: Re: Advocacy? What do you want for the Amiga?
Date: 11 Jan 1993 08:39:27 GMT
Organization: Electrical Engineering Dept. University of Wisconsin - Milwaukee
NNTP-Posting-Host: 129.89.2.33

In article <C0nHrv.Grn@news.iastate.edu> barrett@iastate.edu (Marc N. Barrett) writes:
>   That is the typical Amigoid attitude.  With "one of the best multitasking
>OSs around", you are too proud to run useful software on the computer.  But
>perfectly willing to run non-multitasking games and demos.

You're really stuck your foot up your ass.  It has _NOTHING_ to do
with that, and your lack of vision into the reason behind that
statement is astounding.

>   You have the vision of a bat.  The included software in an Amiga 'works'
>package could easily be written to take advantage of all of the Amiga's
>multitasking capabilities.  The big advantage of an Amiga 'works' package 

Could it really?  So one could simply write an amiga works package
where each part would:

	1) have full arexx accessibility
	2) multithread within itself
	3) be fully pure/reentrant, or at least be able to have
		multiple execution

Most works packages don't account for 3)'s existence, many works
packages don't allow you to use more than one "module" at the same
time--both are necessary.

>would be having all of the most useful software applications packaged with
>the computer, with the applications written to easily share data with each 
>other.  This would make the Amiga much more attractive to people who might
>otherwise purchase a Macintosh system with ClarisWorks.  Apple sells a very
>nice system for $2000 that includes an LC II, monitor, StyleWriter printer,
>and ClarisWorks.  In terms of out-of-the-box usefulness, Commodore can't
>compete with it.  By developing an 'Amiga Works' package, they could.

An opinion, at best.  However, given full arexx accessibility, that
could be done, albeit by hand, with ANY packages, giving much more
power and flexibility.  What C= needs to do is set _MORE_ standards.
C= should set an arexx command standard.  Applications should support
a minimum set of standardized commands.  The "customized connections"
you refer to can be done invisibly through arexx ports in each
individual program.

That's a big philosophy change from the current types of works
software, but it would be what is necessary--it would enable people to
use their own applications as "modules".

>   BTW, the 'Amiga Works' software I am advocating would only be sold with 
>special Amiga bundles.  ClarisWorks is not sold with all Macintoshes, either.
>If you didn't want the software, you would not be forced to buy it.

Naturally.

Greg

--
(: (: (: (: Have you overdosed on smileys today?  Why NOT!?! :) :) :) :)
(: "Our father, who art in Iowa, Hollow be thy head, Thy ideas run    :)
(:  Thy will be done, At Commodore as it is at Apple"  -Dan Barrett   :)
(: (: (: (: (: (: (: (: (: (: (: (: () :) :) :) Wubba, the Dark Angel :)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
From: bloc1469@ee.ee.uwm.edu (Gregory R Block)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
Subject: Re: CBM mention on 12/11/92 Computer Chronicles
Date: 5 Jan 1993 20:52:29 GMT
Organization: Electrical Engineering Dept. University of Wisconsin - Milwaukee
NNTP-Posting-Host: 129.89.2.33

In article <1993Jan5.181707.25408@sol.ctr.columbia.edu> jerry@msi.com (Jerry Shekhel) writes:
>Excuse me?  It's gone?  That's funny, considering that a low-memory condition
>has to be handled by the applications as well as the OS.  If an application
>doesn't check the value returned from the allocation call, it can easily crash
>the system.

Right.  And since the programs I've used DO check, it's no longer a
problem.  The OS no longer has problems with low-memory, and the apps
haven't for a while.

So nothing happens.  It just refuses to DO what you wanted to.
Understand?  It doesn't crash or lock up, it doesn't give you a guru.
It just tells you you're out of ram.  I do hit this once in a while,
but very rarely, and generally never on my 3000 system...

>Exactly, which is why overlays won't help, but VM will.

But if you're processing large amounts of data, it's exactly the
reason you DON'T want VM.  The last thing you want to do with ADPro,
for example, would be VM.  You'd constantly be pulling in and swapping
out pages.  (Yes, I know, I use the graphics example a lot, but that's
because I'm very familiar with it)

Greg


--
(: (: (: (: Have you overdosed on smileys today?  Why NOT!?! :) :) :) :)
(: "Our father, who art in Iowa, Hollow be thy head, Thy ideas run    :)
(:  Thy will be done, At Commodore as it is at Apple"  -Dan Barrett   :)
(: (: (: (: (: (: (: (: (: (: (: (: () :) :) :) Wubba, the Dark Angel :)
From: mbrown@legend.akron.oh.us (MARK BROWN)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
Subject: Re: Byte's Amiga 4000 review...
Reply-To: mbrown@legend.akron.oh.us
X-Software: Legend (216-825-2747) UUCPShell v4.9/med20Dec92
X-Disclaimer: Opinions of users do not necessarily reflect those of managment
Date: 9 Jan 93 21:56:05 EST
Organization: The Legend BBS Public Access (216)825-2747

Actually with the Advent of OS/2, all the Things we do are new To you. 
C= has Never pushed the Amigas advantages into the Public mind, and 
that is were C= Screwed up. But if it wasn't for Commodore and the 
Amiga, Where do you truthfully think the IBM market would Be now? In 
truth the IBM market is alot more than Clone machines, they have 
ripped C= off so bad, and turning around and Calling it thier own, but 
then agian C= let them get away with it. So Let me know when you can 
get a 486 with 2 megs of ram and HD controller for 350 bucks(the Amiga 
486 bridge board is around 1K) Compatibility problems?, not one hell 
of a whole lot from what I have Heard. The Brigde board is nice for 
some things though.
    <Mark

Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
From: kodak@mentor.cc.purdue.edu (Jason 'KodaK' Balicki)
Subject: Re: RISC Amiga?
Organization: Purdue University Computing Center
Date: Tue, 12 Jan 1993 16:13:56 GMT

In article <C0qstz.7CD@undergrad.math.waterloo.edu> papresco@cantor.math.uwaterloo.ca (Paul Prescod) writes:

>So if I want a 68060 based computer, I can buy a A4000 for $2500.00,
>throw out the 68040, and put in the 68060...good plan!

Christ, do you know what you're talking about?  The 4000 doesn't have
a CPU on the motherboard.  When the '060 comes out Commodore will
simply offer an A4000/060, hardly any engineering involved, all
the'd have to do is design a new CPU board.

--Jason Balicki
kodak@mentor.cc.purdue.edu
From: Ray_Hines@dream.uucp (Ray Hines)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
Subject: Re: HELP--AMIGA OR IBM PC CLONE?
Date: 6 Jan 93 11:59:55 GMT
Organization: DreamStates BBS & CyberNet HQ in G'ville, FL   1-904-331-4317

In a message dated Tue  5 Jan 93 13:41, Das9674@ucs.usl.edu (stephenson Dan
wrote:

 DD> Example: The Amiga4000/25Mhz costs from $3500 to $3800.  I am  not
 DD> positive if that includes a mnitor, though.

CORRECTION!  $2700 is more the selling price of the Amiga 4000.  You wanna
quote retail prices for the Amiga, then you'd better do the same thing for
the compatibles, to be fair.  Naturally, this is what I expected from some
Ms-Dog-Head comparing Apples and Oranges. :)

>2) Can Amigas take things like 20" monitors with video cards that permit
very
>   large graphics modes (like 1200-or-so pixels square)?

 DD> Ya got me.  Amigas do seem to have weird modes, don't they?  You
 DD> know, the ol' 1280X400 or somesuch mode.  Gack!                     

Yup, they can indeed take all sorts of monitors, video cards, etc.  If
you're REALLY into graphics power on the Amiga, go out and by a VIVID 24
bit card with 4 co-processers.  The manufacture says it is faster than a
$200,000 Silicon Graphics Workstation. Wheeeeeeeeeee!


-- Via DLG Pro v0.995

* IF replying by MAIL, please reply to the addresses listed below...
--__-----------------------------------------------------------------------
 / /\     Raymond Hines              Internet: Ray_Hines%dream.uucp@ufl.edu
/_/  \  DreamStates BBS                    or: dream!Ray_Hines@ufl.edu
\ \  /   1-904-331-4317                  UUCP: uflorida!dream!Ray_Hines
 \_\/ FidoNet 1:3601/30  DreamStates: An Amiga supporting Amiga, Mac, IBM!
From: barrett@astro.cs.umass.edu (Daniel Barrett)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
Subject: Re: More Amiga OS weaknesses and strengths
Date: 4 Jan 93 20:39:22 GMT
Reply-To: barrett@astro.cs.umass.edu (Daniel Barrett)
Organization: BLAZEMONGER INCORPORATED


In article <C0CFro.MuE@news.iastate.edu> barrett@iastate.edu (Marc N. Barrett) writes:
>I could have had 70 more lines of weaknesses....
>That I can so easily come up with a long list of Amiga surface defects 
>testifies to how unprofessional the surface features of the AmigaOS really
>are.

	No, Marc.  All it "testifies" is that you have opinions.  Just
because you decree that something is a "weakness" doesn't mean that
other people agree.

>It should not be so easy to come up with such a list.

	It's ALWAYS easy to pick apart something you didn't design.  Any
computer, any piece of software, or any product imaginable can be
methodically trashed for not providing some features or capabilities.  It's
simple.

                                                        Dan
							(no relation)

 //////////////////////////////////////\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\
| Dan Barrett -- Dept of Computer Science, Lederle Graduate Research Center |
| University of Massachusetts, Amherst, MA  01003  --  barrett@cs.umass.edu |
 \\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\/////////////////////////////////////
From: mike@rahul.net (Mike Smithwick)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
Subject: 3DO Announced
Date: 8 Jan 93 08:49:11 GMT
Organization: a2i network

[]

Now it can be told, 3DO : The Untold Story.

Over the past several months there have been roomers galore about
some whizbang new machine that EA was working on, and that somehow
-RJ- was involved in it.

In this mornings SJ Mercury Business section there is a fairly long
article on this device which has just been announced at CES.

(Anyone at CES who has seen it feel free to post a message)

Simply put, 3DO on the surface appears to be yet another CD-ROM
home enterainment machine, a competitor to CDTV, CD-I and VIS. The
article wasn't very clear as to how this might differ but it seems
to have some sort of 3-D hardware. THis might mean that it has
some sort of geometry engine like SGI boxes have. The article
mentions the "custom animation engine" and that EA/3DO is looking
to sell the chip sets to make them the standard in CD-ROM systems.

3DO has backing of Matsushita (makers of Panasonic), Time-Warner 
and of course EA. Its alliance with a game manufacturer and the
movie types from Time-Warner ensures a massive resource of software
being available for the thing. A flight-simulator is already
running on it along with a game based on Jurassic Park.

RJ Mical's company, New Technology Group, is responsible for the 
development of the box or major portions thereof. Vista was used
to help create some demo stuff for the Spring CES last year. (He
wanted to show it to me but said the lawyers wouldn't
like that).

I understand that the first 3DO developers conference was held
in October or November. The first machines will have the Panasonic
label, should be available next Christmas for about $700.

Mike


-- 
This message brought to you by the Happy Fun Ball! It's Happy! It's
fun!! It's the HAPPY FUN BALL!!! (Still legal in 16 states)
*** Mike Smithwick - mike@rahul.net 
*** No disclaimer is necessary since I only work for myself, HA! HA! HA! HA!
Xref: sparky comp.sys.amiga.advocacy:32858 comp.sys.amiga.games:17616
From: uzun@crash.cts.com (Roger Uzun)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy,comp.sys.amiga.games
Subject: A1200 with 6M of RAM, anyone have one?
Date: 7 Jan 93 03:17:45 GMT
Organization: CTS Network Services (crash, ctsnet), El Cajon, CA

If anyone actually has an Amiga 1200 with 6M of RAM or more,
could you please try and run UChess on it and let me know
if it works, and what the test speed and rate pgm functions
tell you.  I can email you the pgm, or it can be downloaded from
valkyries.andrew.cmu.edu /pub/chess/uploads/Amiga
or
hubcap.clemson.edu /pub/amiga/incoming/games

UChess is a HIRES 256 color AGA (or 16 color ECS on lesser machines),
chess pgm, designed to play very strong chess on Amiga systems.

-Roger
--------------------------------------------------------------
bix: ruzun
NET: uzun@crash.cts.com
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
From: jerry@msi.com (Jerry Shekhel)
Subject: Re: CBM mention on 12/11/92 Computer Chronicles
Organization: Molecular Simulations, Inc.
Date: Tue, 12 Jan 1993 21:39:56 GMT
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1 PL8]
X-Posted-From: hemi.msi.com
NNTP-Posting-Host: sol.ctr.columbia.edu

Skip Sauls (skip@tacky.cs.olemiss.edu) wrote:
:
: >But while we're at it, perhaps YOU'd sound less dumb if you could tell me
: >what an OS is good for without applications.
:
: For learning about operating systems.  Minix doesn't have anything in the
: way of great applications, yet it is fine for teaching an OS course.
:

What does this have to do with Windows or AmigaOS?  Neither comes with source.

:
: Skip Sauls, Amiga Advocate
:
--
+-------------------+----------------------------+---------------------------+
| JERRY J. SHEKHEL  | Molecular Simulations Inc. | Time just fades the pages |
| Drummers do it... |     Burlington, MA USA     | in my book of memories.   |
|    ... In rhythm! |        jerry@msi.com       |         -- Guns N' Roses  |
+-------------------+----------------------------+---------------------------+
From: ggg@kepler.unh.edu (Gregory G Greene)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
Subject: Re: HELP--AMIGA OR IBM PC CLONE?
Date: 5 Jan 1993 01:19:13 GMT
Organization: University of New Hampshire  -  Durham, NH
NNTP-Posting-Host: kepler.unh.edu

'>Last Time I checked, the A4000 at My dealer with 120 meg HD and 6 megs 
'>of ram was going for $2300.
'>     Mark

	I wish we had nice dealers like this around here.  The A4000 is still
   at $3200 with no monitor.  The A1200 is $1400 with 40meg HD and monitor.

							Greg Greene
                                                        ggg@kepler.unh.edu
From: skip@tacky.cs.olemiss.edu (Skip Sauls)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
Subject: Re: HELP--AMIGA OR IBM PC CLONE?
Date: 12 Jan 93 16:58:13 GMT
Organization: University of Mississippi, Dept. of Computer Science

In article <1993Jan12.021602.18254@seas.gwu.edu> gerald@seas.gwu.edu (Gerald G. Washington) writes:
>papresco@cantor.math.uwaterloo.ca (Paul Prescod) writes:
>>(Someone) writes:
>>>As an owner of an A4000 who uses very nice SVGA systems at work, I can say
>>>that AGA certainly does cut it.  Commodore wanted to upgrade the custom
>>>chips to SVGA levels, and they have done so with AGA.  
>>
>>What do you define as "SVGA."  Trident SVGA is about equivalent to AGA.
>>It's also about $50.00.
>
>Any graphics with 640x480x8-bit displays or better qualifies, right?

640x480x256 qualifies also.  This is achievable with only 256k and is
supported by many of the SVGA boards.  

>-- Gerald

Skip Sauls, Amiga Advocate who loves his new 17" IDEK multiscan...
skip@tacky.cs.olemiss.edu
From: mbrown@legend.akron.oh.us (MARK BROWN)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
Subject: Re: HELP--AMIGA OR IBM PC CLONE?
Reply-To: mbrown@legend.akron.oh.us
X-Software: Legend (216-825-2747) UUCPShell v4.9/med20Dec92
X-Disclaimer: Opinions of users do not necessarily reflect those of managment
Date: 4 Jan 93 12:20:37 EST
Organization: The Legend BBS Public Access (216)825-2747

Last Time I checked, the A4000 at My dealer with 120 meg HD and 6 megs 
of ram was going for $2300.
     Mark

Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
From: zarthac@bradley.edu (Matthew Simmons)
Subject: Re: Amiga OS weaknesses and strengths
Organization: J. Random Misconfigured Site
Date: Wed, 6 Jan 1993 09:14:47 GMT
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1 PL8]
X-Posted-From: cs1.bradley.edu
NNTP-Posting-Host: sol.ctr.columbia.edu

Jason S Birch (jasonb@cs.uwa.oz.au) wrote:
: Since we're talking about icons: the time it takes to generate the icons
: when the disk is being read is a bit excessive, even on a hard disk (or
: ram disk!)... I know it's because all the .info files have to be searched
: for and read, and I know the mac stores them all in a single "desktop" file,
: which is why it's so fast, but can't anything be done? Opening a drawer with
: a lot of files can be a frustrating experience :-(

: Also, perhaps multiple images could be stored in each .info for different
: WB depths, so icons could look good in 2-colour mode and 256-colour mode?

: Later,
: Jason.
: -- 
: Mr Jason Birch                       _--_|\  Internet: jasonb@cs.uwa.edu.au
: Department of Computer Science      /      \ Tel (work): +61 9 380 1840
: The University of Western Australia *_.--._/ Fax (work): +61 9 380 1126
: Nedlands  W. Australia  6009              v  Tel (home): +61 9 386 8630

What would be a godsend would be if C= would make it so you could select
icons b4 they were done being loaded...
--
---------------------------------------------------------
My newsreader is screwed up... Therefore, it doesn't print the machine
name for email... Please send all email to zarthac@cs1.bradley.edu or
zarthac@camelot.bradley.edu
From: bloc1469@ee.ee.uwm.edu (Gregory R Block)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
Subject: Re: CBM mention on 12/11/92 Computer Chronicles
Date: 5 Jan 1993 22:37:59 GMT
Organization: Electrical Engineering Dept. University of Wisconsin - Milwaukee
NNTP-Posting-Host: 129.89.2.33

In article <1993Jan5.211833.318@sol.ctr.columbia.edu> jerry@msi.com (Jerry Shekhel) writes:
>Yes, I believe it is, but that doesn't mean that VM is a disadvantage of
>the systems which have it.  By wording the above the way you did, you subtly
>changed the scope of the discussion.  The question all along hasn't been
>whether or not adding RAM is better than adding VM; it's been about whether
>having VM is better than not having VM.
>
>This is IMHO:
>
>    1. If you're out of space, add RAM rather than VM
>    2. If you have a choice, VM is better than no VM
>
>Notice how the two statements are slightly different.  You seem to agree
>with #1.  Do you agree with #2?

How good of you to ask.  1 is true, 2 is wrong.  I believe that
operating systems should follow a set philosophy.  I believe that,
under AmigaDOS, VM violates that philosophy.

Da?

Greg

--
(: (: (: (: Have you overdosed on smileys today?  Why NOT!?! :) :) :) :)
(: "Our father, who art in Iowa, Hollow be thy head, Thy ideas run    :)
(:  Thy will be done, At Commodore as it is at Apple"  -Dan Barrett   :)
(: (: (: (: (: (: (: (: (: (: (: (: () :) :) :) Wubba, the Dark Angel :)
From: ggiles@cie.uoregon.edu (Gregg Giles)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
Subject: Overabundance of Drek
Date: 8 Jan 1993 02:38:21 GMT
Organization: University of Oregon Campus Information Exchange
Distribution: world
NNTP-Posting-Host: cie.uoregon.edu


   Folks, LAY OFF ON THE FLAME WARS.
   I login to find 217 new messages in comp.sys.amiga.advocacy. Most seem
to be slamming Marc Barrett or someone else. This is not the place to
defend your ego or prove you are a hardware or software god or goddess.
If you have nothing of real use to say, then DON'T SAY ANYTHING.
   There's enough crap to wade through in here as it is, and over the last
few months, it's become intolerable. Knock it off kiddies. It's not wanted.

-- 
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Gregg Giles (Dynamix, Inc.)               "Infinite Laser Dog" Development Team
All opinions expressed are my own.          ggiles@cie.uoregon.edu, BIX: ggiles
Willy Beamish (MS-DOS CD-ROM, Sega-CD), Space Quest V (MS-DOS), A10 1.5 (Amiga)
Organization: Penn State University
Date: Tue, 12 Jan 1993 22:35:23 EST
From: <SML108@psuvm.psu.edu>
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
Subject: Re: More on 3DO

More to the point: what can we do to get them to release the development
system for it as soon as possible.  This thing sounds H O T!

If the first demos for it are as good as they seem, imagine what really
hacking around with it will produce!

Scott
From: andrey@cco.caltech.edu (Andre T. Yew)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
Subject: Re: CBM mention on 12/11/92 Computer Chronicles
Date: 5 Jan 1993 01:54:34 GMT
Organization: California Institute of Technology, Pasadena
NNTP-Posting-Host: punisher.caltech.edu

jerry@msi.com (Jerry Shekhel) writes:

>Plenty.  For strictly GUI API's, I'd say InterViews is the best I've seen,
>followed by X/Xt, OS/2 PM, Windows, MacOS, AmigaOS, Atari GEM.  For best
             ^^^^

	You're kidding right?  I'm curious why you ordered those
the way you did.  If you have some time, could you type in
what you think makes a good GUI API?  Thanks.

	BTW, if you can get a look at the 8 1/2 API -- it's a
little bare, but it's pretty elegant (especially for those
planar-display fans out there).  I think it may still be
available from research.att.com.

--Andre

-- 
             Andre Yew andrey@cco.caltech.edu (131.215.139.2)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy