HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: dyer@spdcc.com (Steve Dyer)
Subject: Re: Vaccinations?
Organization: S.P. Dyer Computer Consulting, Cambridge MA
Date: Sat, 2 Jan 1993 19:21:48 GMT

In article <1993Jan2.144516.20037@rtf.bt.co.uk> traub@rtf.bt.co.uk (Michael Traub) writes:
>When  I  was  a child my mother regularly took me to see other children who
>had  measles,  mumps  and  chicken pox so that we could get the disease. In
>those  days  no  immunization existed. My father (a physician) did not seem
>at  all  concerned about complications. My sister and I managed a couple of
>weeks  off  school  and  I  have  a  scar in the middle of my forehead from
>ignoring  mum  and  scratching my chicken pox. Nowadays however measles and
>mumps  have  turned into life threatening diseases and the whole population
>requires immunization. Really???

It is worth noticing Traub's sleight of hand here--he's conflating a mostly
innocuous disease of childhood (chicken pox) which has no vaccine with two
more dangerous diseases (mumps and measles) which do have vaccines.
Plus, he's arguing from a sample size of his family.  It is indeed lucky
that Traub's father's malpractice (exposing his children to measles)
didn't result in blindness, deafness or other complications.  Measles
is a very dangerous and contagious disease; it always has been.

>Proper nutrition is far more important than any immunization.

This is nonsense.  A properly nourished child is quite capable of
being infected and dying (or ending up permanently impaired) from
measles or other childhood diseases.  This provide no protection,
and parents should not be deceived into thinking it does.

>Another  point  to  bear  in  mind  is  the  level  of  protection  you are
>providing  for  your child by vaccinating. I don't know the correct numbers
>but  I  would  think  that your child is ten thousand times as likely to be
>run  over  by  a car than to be struck down with any of these diseases. The
>obvious   thing   to   do  then  is  to  ban  all  cars  and  forget  about
>immunisation.  Unfortunately  cars  and  immunisations  make  money for big
>companies.

Traub is forgetting that the reason your child is unlikely to be infected
is a direct result of widespread immunization.  Epidemics do not spread in
populations where there is "herd immunity", as a result of vaccination.
Once the incidence of vaccination falls below a threshold, the incidence
of the disease increases, sometimes to the level of an epidemic.  This has
been happening in the past 10 years due to such failures on the part of
parents who have been deluded into thinking they're acting responsibly in
their failure to immunize their children.

-- 
Steve Dyer
dyer@ursa-major.spdcc.com aka {ima,harvard,rayssd,linus,m2c}!spdcc!dyer
From: greg@antizen.EBay.Sun.COM
Newsgroups: misc.health.alternative
Subject: Re: War cry of the scientific
Date: 24 Dec 1992 00:37:13 GMT
Organization: Sun Microsystems, Inc.
Distribution: world
Reply-To: greg@antizen.EBay.Sun.COM
NNTP-Posting-Host: antizen.ebay.sun.com


>Sorry to be so cranky about this, but we should not tolerate loose talk and
>careless thinking when peoples' health and lives are at stake. Some naif might
>mistake some of what passes here for actual wisdom.

I appreciate your strong feelings for this and your willingness to take
a stand for something you believe in, but it seems foolhardy to me to
place so much stock in Western medicine. As you said, peoples` lives are
at stake.

If you really believe our current technological world, specifically medicine,
is so righteous and omnipotent, I say have at it! 

One would think, listening to your arguments, that Allopathy is actually 
curing people of their diseases, leading people to health, taking care
of people when they're hurt. I was under the impression that the ranks
of the medically uninsured were exploding, that people could only get
good care if they could afford it, that many if not most drugs carried
serious, even toxic side effects and that much of Allopathic medicine
only deals with treating the disease symptoms instead of treating the
cause.

I'm reading your replies carefully and thoughtfully, feeling accused of
buying into fads, being reckless with my health and wasting my money, yet
all of those things would only be true were I to continue to rely on conventional
treatment for my asthma and any other illness I may have to deal with.

So far, I have heard nothing relevant from you besides, 'you can't prove it!'.

I really can't see where you're coming from with statements like;

>Some naif might mistake some of what passes here for actual wisdom.

I suppose we'll just go our own ways and see who is the happiest and
healthiest for it.

Regards,

Greg
From: fish@ecst.csuchico.edu (Kevin Haddock)
Newsgroups: misc.health.alternative
Subject: Re: Asthma, adult onset
Date: 22 Dec 1992 18:57:08 GMT
Organization: California State University, Chico
NNTP-Posting-Host: cscihp.ecst.csuchico.edu

In article <BznzFI.5M8@gator.use.com> larry@gator.use.com (Larry Snyder) writes:
>greg@antizen.EBay.Sun.COM writes:
>
>>I realized that I had the dreaded 'adult-onset' asthma. This, for anyone
>>not in the current informational flow about asthma, statistically is
>>very likely to stay with you for the rest of your life. Childhood asthma
>>often disappears.
>
>I work in a level one trauma center as an RN, and we frequently see
>patients with asthma, a good number of which die.  The only
>reason I mention this is that it is very important for you to know exactly
>what you are doing in regards to your health.  Make you you can put your
>trust (and life) with the person you are consulting with.
>
>

I have had terrible allergies and asthma since I was a teen (I'm in my
thirties now) and I started out my recovery by going on a yeast and
sugar (includes all simple carbohydrates) free diet for about six months
and maintaining mega-doses of vitamin C (>15 grams/day).  For the last
couple of years I feel wonderful.  I live in one of the worst allergy
areas I have heard of.  Vitamin C has saved my life, I'm convinced!  I
take 3-4 grams 3 to 4 times a day.  Taking it before bed even helps settle
my nerves and helps me sleep.  The society for clinical ecologists 
appearently have taken allergy studies to a new science and I have only
just begun to tap into thier knowledge from what I can tell.  I strongly
recommend the book: the 5 day allergy relief system, by Dr. Mendell to
anyone who want's a little different slant on medical care.

-Kevin
fish@cscihp.ecst.csuchico.edu

------
Hackers do it with fewer instructions!


Newsgroups: misc.health.alternative
From: npm@dale.cts.com (Nancy Milligan)
Subject: Re: Eczema and holistic cures
Organization: Titan Linkabit Corporation
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1 PL6]
Date: Wed, 23 Dec 1992 19:59:59 GMT

I found that stress and dry skin were the two biggest factors
in my excema flare ups.  And it may be an unpopular notion in
this group, but my M.D. even agreed with my observations.  

First keep your skin well-moisturized.  You might try some
of the new skin creams that contain AHA (Alpha-hydrox..something
or other).  Or maybe something lanolin based. 

--
Nancy P. Milligan 				npm@dale.cts.com
Titan Linkabit					cts!dale!npm
		  Gravity is no laughing matter.
From: fish@ecst.csuchico.edu (Kevin Haddock)
Newsgroups: misc.health.alternative
Subject: Re: Eczema and holistic cures
Date: 23 Dec 1992 00:14:05 GMT
Organization: California State University, Chico
NNTP-Posting-Host: cscihp.ecst.csuchico.edu

In article <22DEC199215311771@cc.weber.edu> tscwhitehead@cc.weber.edu (Clarke Whitehead) writes:
> You mentioned flushing out
>the toxins.  Someone mentioned a lemon-juice fast for flushing toxins
>out of your body.  Has anyone had experience with this?
>

he had several good suggestions for fasting.  If you are really serious
you should find a clinical ecologist and have him help you with it.  You
should be hooked up to vital signs monitoring equipment for best results.

If however you want to go it on your own, you can either fast for 5 days
on springwater or go on a rotation diet.  The most important thing to
remember is to avoid the most common foods you come in contact with,
especially in refined form.  You also have to watch out for petro-products
like plastics that are not well aged and still 'gassing'.  He has hints
in the book about which foods (like some of the ones I mentioned) are
likely culprets and a whole bunch of case studies where you will
probably see some of your symptoms.

If you do this without the help of the clinical ecologist you should be
prepared for flareups of your condition which could be dangerous to your
health.  Maybe everyone reading this group can ask around to see if any
one knows a clinical ecologist and we could get him on the net to fill us
in?  ;-)

-Kevin
fish@cscihp.ecst.csuchico.edu

---------
Hackers do it with fewer instructions!


Newsgroups: misc.health.alternative
From: khobbs@halcyon.com (Kevin Hobbs)
Subject: Re: Chiropractic advice
Organization: The 23:00 News and Mail Service
Date: Wed, 30 Dec 1992 19:36:37 GMT

I just recently started going to a chiropractor and it has helped my
situation.  It turns out I have my fifth lumbar shifted back and rotated
to the left.  This was pinching a nerve that runs down the left leg,
where the orriginal pain had started.  Because, of this lumbar being out
it was causing other parts of the spine to compensate, manifesting
itself as neck pain, middle of the back pain, and headaches.  This
condition has got nothing to do with my work, I think.  Since, I've been
going to the chiropractor, the pain in my leg and neck are gone.  But,
it comes back in a few days so I keep going back.  The goal is to retrain
the muscles so they hold the lumbar in place, I guess it's been out for
many years, it's going to take a while to heal.

The cost is $30.00 per trip, $26.00 is paid by insurance.  

I would say try to read up on proper ergonomics for computer terminal
workers.  There should be a way to work without causing pain to your
body.  Maybe, try that first, and if there's no change, go see the
chiropractor.  I'd go see 'em anyway, just to make sure you don't have
any serious spinal sublexations (sp), bones out of place.

These people that are saying they are quacks is because the
chiropractors they went to probably were.  Today, it's evolved to much
more than just lots crackin' and popin'.  There's still going to be ones
out there that are total quacks, just like the quack medical doctor that
gave me some pain killer for my leg pain being caused by the lumbar, the
md said a sprained a muscle.  Now, there's a quack.

Bottom line: more exercise will probably greatly increase your health
and well being, but you should make sure there's nothing wrong, just so
you know.

My chiropractor says 90% of the population has a spinal sublexasion
(sp).

Looking at a chart of the nerves of the body is pretty convincing that
the proper placment and alingment of the vertebrae, through which all
nerves pass, is very important to your health. 

Kevin 

Newsgroups: misc.health.alternative
From: gordon@tramp.Colorado.EDU (GORDON ALLEN R)
Subject: Re: Bates therapy & lazer glasses
Organization: University of Colorado, Boulder
Date: 23 Dec 92 21:25:58 GMT

shreeved@ece.orst.edu (David Shreeve) writes:


>And finally, my personal non-provable evidence: that I get clear flashes
>of vision on a regular basis after having thought I was permanently
>visually impaired has demonstrated to me beyond doubt that, at least, MY
>cornea is not permanently misshapen.


I had a similar experience about 10 years ago.  After wearing glasses/contact
lenses for nearly 30 years to correct nearsightedness that required ~7 diopters or more correction, I was able to see clearly for extended periods of time.  
I was able to drive without glasses/lenses on.  It was very exciting.  Then
it went away and no matter what I tried, internally, which is what I had 
attributed this change to, I could not see without my glasses.  Much later I
talked to a couple of eye-type professionals, who dismissed this as a patholog-
igcal condition related to inflamation and swelling of my eyeballs, causing 
distortion of the eye and changing the focal length.

Oh well....

-- 
Allen Gordon 		         *If the folly of but one of us was changed to*
Research Associate         	 *intelligence, and divided amongst a thousand*
gordon@tramp.colorado.edu   	 *toads, each would be more intelligent than  *
				 *Aristotle				      *
Newsgroups: misc.health.alternative
From: schumach@convex.com (Richard A. Schumacher)
Subject: Re: homeopathy
Organization: CONVEX Computer Corporation, Richardson, Tx., USA
Date: Wed, 23 Dec 1992 23:18:01 GMT
X-Disclaimer: This message was written by a user at CONVEX Computer
              Corp. The opinions expressed are those of the user and
              not necessarily those of CONVEX.


>One possibility is that the dilution process (which is more complex
>than just a simple dilution) modifies the matrix such that the
>immune system believes it is seeing the actual ingredient.  The

Ah, yes, the old "structured water" idea. No one has ever demonstrated
that water can chemically mimic a given antigen, much less induce an
immune response. This is just vitalism in a pseudoscientific dress.
From: bj368@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Mike E. Romano)
Newsgroups: misc.health.alternative
Subject: Re: Cancer treatment
Date: 27 Dec 1992 09:22:25 GMT
Organization: Case Western Reserve University, Cleveland, Ohio (USA)
NNTP-Posting-Host: hela.ins.cwru.edu



The original posting in this thread by Harry Waddell asked
about a particular herb discussed in the Cancer Journal
as well as other related articles, etc.
(sorry I my text editor is on the blink at the moment so
I am not inserting previous text).

I have a great deal of interest in this general area.
That is, any and all diet, vitamin, and herbal correlates
to cancer suppression or "tumor necrosis" as it is
sometimes called in the medical profession.

I peruse Medline constantly for relevant studies and
as a layman in terms of medical terminology it has been
a jungle, but after a couple of years of reading
medical journals I know can spot articles much more
easily.
Guess what: there are literally thousands of studies
by medical researchers on herbs and herb extracts
which may have some hope in attacking specific
cancers.
The story keeps coming to my mind of the yew tree,
which for centuries (millennia) has been used by
native indians as an antitumor potion.
Then a couple decades ago brought to the fore by
good ole American med research then abandoned for
no particular reason, just sort of overlooked
in the multitudes of research directions I guess.
Then suddenly rediscovered just a year or two
ago and now all hell is breaking loose scrambling
for extracts of it, etc.
Another angle to is to look at epidemiological studies
of what populations have unusually low cancer rates.
Invariably diet is a big causal factor in these.
For example, it is (finally) widely acknowledged
by the stuffed shirt med orthodox-ers that beta
carotene in green vegetables such as spinach,
also carrots, etc. is definitely linked to lower
cancer
rates.
Oriental diets correlate strongly with lower 
cancer rates (for ==most== but not all cancers).

Finally:  ACE is the place.  The vitamins A,C,
and E are all correlated with anti cancer
properties.
But pleeze....A and E can be harmful in higher
doses, be careful.
I will continue to post in this diet/cancer area
as I find interesting studies.
There are many herbs being studied.  later.

-- 
Capt. Kirk: let's head for that planet, third from the sun, it
            looks promising.... |-)
From: kludge@grissom.larc.nasa.gov (Scott Dorsey)
Newsgroups: misc.health.alternative
Subject: Re: echinacea
Date: 23 Dec 1992 01:06:02 GMT
Organization: NASA Langley Research Center and Reptile Farm
NNTP-Posting-Host: grissom.larc.nasa.gov

In article <1992Dec22.213953.28375@welchgate.welch.jhu.edu> patty@welchgate.welch.jhu.edu (Patty Haley) writes:
>
>I meant closer to the lines of #3, except that the echinacea is not
>in alcohol.  Some companies can only compress (or whatever it is
>that they do) the echinacea through an alcohol base, which is why
>they tell you to put it in hot/warm water before taking (so that
>the alcohol will burn off).  The liquid echinacea that I use is
>concentrated, so only 5-7 drops are needed.

Well, the basic idea with making a tincture is that everything soluble in
alcohol (and that includes a large number of compounds) goes into solution
and you use the solution, discarding the woody residue.

I assume that the stuff you are referring to uses a similar solvent, and
then they evaporate the solvent.  I don't know exactly what is being
referred to here, but I assume that a process like that would leave a 
fairly thick, tarry substance behind which would be a lot more concentrated
than the tincture.

Personally, I don't mind just taking a tincture... after all, a few drops
of ethanol aren't going to hurt you any.  
--scott
Newsgroups: misc.health.alternative
From: sdb@ssr.com (Scott Ballantyne)
Subject: Re: homeopathy
Organization: ScotSoft Research
	<1992Dec22.202855.2659@news.mentorg.com>
	<1h83kuINNbub@charnel.ecst.csuchico.edu>
Date: Mon, 28 Dec 1992 02:35:40 GMT

In article <1h83kuINNbub@charnel.ecst.csuchico.edu> fish@ecst.csuchico.edu (Kevin Haddock) writes:

   I think a big reason why the AMA seems to be against such practices
   is that clinical ecology has such promise.

That's right, Kevin. The AMA has a long history of being against
things that work. When antibiotics were introduced, they opposed that.
When a polio vaccine was introduced they opposed that, after all -
there was this huge investment in iron lungs and hospital beds they
had to protect.  Let's not forget TB - the AMA fought tooth and nail
to keep the truth from getting out about TB, didn't they?

Get a clue Kevin. Scientific medicine (that's your AMA strawman)
opposes Clinical Ecology for excellent reasons, like: It doesn't work.

You might open your mind a tad and read what some medical people have
written about your favorite obsession. You might want to start with
the excellent paper by D.E. Stewart, published in Canadian Family
Physician, Vol. 33 February 1987: "Environmental Hypersensitivity
Disorder, Total Allergy and 20th Centry Disease: A Critical Review"

I suggest this one becase Dr. Stewart is a Canadian, and not a member
of your dreaded AMA.

sdb
---
sdb@ssr.com
From: hans@mcshh.Hanse.DE (Hans Lehmann)
Newsgroups: misc.health.alternative
Subject: Amalgam & Gold & Monitor Emission
Summary: Could Amalgam, Gold in Teeth an Monitor Emission cause Health problems?
Keywords: Amalgam, Gold, Monitor, Emission
Date: 27 Dec 92 09:42:58 GMT
Organization: Point of Presence & MCS Hamburg


Question: Could amalgam and gold inlet in teeth in combination with monitor
emission cause critical health problems?

For two months I am ill. Inflammation of the throat, weak voice, problems in
maxillary cavity. I took twice penicillin and it helped only partly.

Might it be possible that the cause of the illness is electrical current from
the gold inlet to the amalgam, so that the amalgam goes into the blood and
poisons the body increased additional by electromagnetic waves by the monitor.  

If yes, what are the typical effects. What is the acceptable value of
mercury/quicksilver?

Thanks in advance!

Hans 

*-----------------------------*--------------------------------------*
*    Hans D. Lehmann          *  UUCP:          hans@mcshh.hanse.de  *
*   Sportzenkoppel 49         *  Z-Netz:        hans@edgar.zer       *
* 2000 Hamburg 67 GERMANY     *  BTX:           040 603 83 44        *
* voice: GERMANY 40 603 83 44 *  you need to know the worm  WUNIX    *
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*-----------------------------*--------------------------------------*
From: fish@ecst.csuchico.edu (Kevin Haddock)
Newsgroups: misc.health.alternative
Subject: Re: Bates method (natural vision improvement)
Date: 22 Dec 1992 22:34:02 GMT
Organization: California State University, Chico
Distribution: world
NNTP-Posting-Host: cscihp.ecst.csuchico.edu

I wonder if anyone has had any luck with those 'lazer' glasses
with all the little pinholes cut in blackout lenses?  From the
little I know about optics it would seem to make sense.  Basically
I think what happens is the pinholes make any image focus regardless
of what your lenses are doing so it allows the muscles to find
thier 'home' (i.e. relaxed) position.  What happens after a while is
your brain 'remembers' which way to go to correct the image by
reinforcing a correctly focused image at the 'home' position instead
of glasses which reinforce a correctly focused image at in incorrect
position.

Any scientists out there care to comment on this theory?

-Kevin
fish@cscihp.ecst.csuchico.edu

--------
Hackers do it with fewer instructions!
From: dips@cad.gatech.edu (Deeptendu Majumder)
Newsgroups: misc.health.alternative
Subject: Re: How far should Homeopathic medicine be f
Date: 24 Dec 1992 17:57:39 -0500
Organization: Georgia Institute of Technology, CAE/CAD Lab
NNTP-Posting-Host: cae.cad.gatech.edu


>I'm personally on guard to being sucked into a cultural movement into
>alternative medicine, i.e. letting it become an all-encompasing lifestyle
>sort of deal where you *always* do something and *never* do the other.

Yeah I agree..coming from India I had the opportunity to be
exposed to various systems that are prevelant there, including
allopathy of course. Once I had a cyst problem on my face
and tried homeopathy for quite a while and it seem to take 
forever to cure it. So we decided to go for surgery instead.
And at other times I have found homeopathy to work very well.

I personally feel it is a good idea to keep the mind open to
various systems instead of getting fixated on any one no matter
what. But at times it is probably a good idea to stick with one
system instead of jumping from one to another when the recovery
just does not seem to be fast enough.

I also tend to agree with an earlier post which mentioned that our
ever changing and more synthetic lifestyle may indeed pose some
difficulty for these natural medicines. Some of these alternative
systems expect one to lead a certain kind of well disciplined
life style to be of any use. It is probably unfair to jump into
them out of the blue and expect all the problems to get fixed in
no time.

Sometimes I find some of my friends here get so fixated on 
alternative medicine that it worries me..

d.
-- 
Deeptendu Majumder
30963 Georgia Tech Station
Atlanta, GA 30332.