HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: levine@symcom.math.uiuc.edu (Lenore Levine)
Subject: Re: Homosexuals should be allowed into the military
Organization: University of Illinois at Urbana
Date: Wed, 30 Dec 1992 22:23:36 GMT

lazarus@wixer.cactus.org (Michael Lax) writes:

> 
>: While I'm in this thread, may I implore that it be moved to a more appropriate
>: newsgroup?  The question of whether gays should be allowed in the military has
>: nothing to do with Judaism.  And besides, this group has enough of it's *own*
>: homosexuality flame wars - we don't need other groups' flame wars as well!
>: -- 
>: Elie Rosenfeld      | "I am what I am, Leila -- and if there are self-made
>: Bellcore            |  purgatories, then we all must live in them.
>: Piscataway, N.J.    |  Mine is no worse than someone else's."
>: (908) 699-8800      |                     - Spock, "This Side of Paradise"

>Well, perhaps it might belong on another newsgroup, except that the Jewish 
>War Veterans have decided to support the bigoted and hateful notion that
>gays and lesbians should be discriminated against.  Their reasoning
>for their ignorance is in my post about the JWV and bigotry.

Doesn't the Jewish War Veterans know that the military has always
been *full* of closeted gays, anyway?
Xref: sparky soc.culture.jewish:24159 misc.headlines:7367 talk.politics.misc:65493 misc.legal:21781
From: rlk@underprize.think.com (Robert Krawitz)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish,misc.headlines,talk.politics.misc,misc.legal
Subject: Re: Say it ain't so
Date: 29 Dec 92 08:47:20
Organization: Thinking Machines Corporation, Cambridge Mass., USA
	<1992Dec18.003559.28805@bony1.bony.com> <BzKDyq.Cr9@world.std.com>
	<1992Dec28.225623.1118@bony1.bony.com>
NNTP-Posting-Host: underprize.think.com
In-reply-to: jake@bony1.bony.com's message of Mon, 28 Dec 92 22:56:23 GMT

In article <1992Dec28.225623.1118@bony1.bony.com> jake@bony1.bony.com (Jake Livni) writes:

   In article <BzKDyq.Cr9@world.std.com> srm@world.std.com (Stevens R Miller) writes:

   >Since you concluded that Nelson's jury was biased/racist/stupid
   >because they acquitted him, 

   Not because they acquitted him, but because they ignored the
   considerable evidence against him.  The minority jury threw out
   testimony and evidence from several divisions of the NYPD, testimony
   from the EMS crews at the scene and the ID by the victim himself.
   Yup, they were racist/biased/stupid, perhaps even all three.  And this
   kind of ridiculous acquittal won't have been the first one.

At most, all they had to do was find reasonable doubts about that
testimony, not that it was wrong.
--
ames >>>>>>>>>  |	Robert Krawitz <rlk@think.com>	245 First St.
bloom-beacon >  |think!rlk				Cambridge, MA  02142
harvard >>>>>>  .	Thinking Machines Corp.		(617)234-2116

Member of the League for Programming Freedom -- write lpf@uunet.uu.net
From: ecl@cbnewsj.cb.att.com (Evelyn C. Leeper)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
Subject: Re: Jewish Christmas Carol Hits
Date: 23 Dec 92 20:19:06 GMT
Organization: AT&T

In article <72286@cup.portal.com> Arthur_T_Hu@cup.portal.com writes:
> I never thought about this before, but after hearing Barbara Streisand
> doing a christmas song, it occured to me that she's Jewish, isn't she?
> So what are the biggest Christmas hits sung by Jews? I guess music is
> music, and a buck is a buck. Was there ever a Hanakuh hit record?

Michael Landon and Lorne Green both did Christmas albums.  And
the two most popular recent "Christian holiday songs"--"White
Christmas" and "Easter Parade"--were written by Irving Berlin.

So what?  Jewish actors and actresses play Christians in the movies all
the time (and vice versa).  In literature one learns not to attribute
the philosophies of the characters to the author, and this extends to
show business as well.  Should Charleton Heston have refused to play
Moses because he wasn't Jewish?  Or did he just do it because a buck is
a buck?

Evelyn C. Leeper  |  +1 908 957 2070  |  att!mtgzy!ecl or  ecl@mtgzy.att.com
--
"God does not play dice with the universe."  --Albert Einstein
"Albert, stop telling God what to do."  --Niels Bohr
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
From: saal@cbnewsl.cb.att.com (samuel.saal)
Subject: Re: ACLU/AJC Menorah Police?
Organization: AT&T
Date: Tue, 22 Dec 1992 13:40:53 GMT

In article <1992Dec21.203007.24026@starbase.trincoll.edu>
nmiller@starbase.trincoll.edu (norman miller) writes:

>In article <1992Dec21.192659.23673@cbnewsl.cb.att.com>
>saal@cbnewsl.cb.att.com (samuel.saal) sniffs:

>>What about Chanukah, or Judaism in general, do you hate so much as to
>>consider "vulgar."

>Neither Judaism nor Hanuka are vulgar.  But some people are and what they
>do is.

In an earlier post (that you deleted), you called the public celebration
of Chanuka "vulgar."  I'm curious to hear specifics.

Or was this post a retraction?
-- 
Sam Saal      kingfish!saal OR saal@kingfish.att.com
	Vayiftach HaShem et Peah Ha`Aton
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
From: scruggs@zeus.franklin.edu (Kevin Scruggs)
Subject: Re: Why I became an Athiest (was: frustrations with christianity)
Organization: Franklin University (Columbus, OH)
Date: Tue, 22 Dec 1992 22:35:44 GMT

In article <9212221822.AA15743@hrt213.brooks.af.mil> tjm@hrt213.brooks.af.mil (Tim Miller) writes:
>On Tue, 22 Dec 1992 16:00:48 GMT, aap@wam.umd.edu (Alberto Adolfo Pinkas) said:
>A> Nntp-Posting-Host: rac2.wam.umd.edu
>
>A> I, as an atheist, have to disagree with this.
>
>A> Atheist do not believe that there is a god. But, there is no way to "face
>A> incontrivertable proof" that there is a god. So, there is no way you can say
>A> what an atheist would do in an impossible situation.
>
>	I did not offer proof; I pointed out that an atheist believes
>that there is *no* G-d, regardless of argument to the contrary.  An
>*agnostic* has no opinion.
>
>A> I would agree that atheist have no way to prove that there is no god in
>A> the same way that religious people cannot prove that there is one.
>A> However, atheism is not a faith as much as any other. 
>A> Faith is when you believe that there is something you have to believe in. 
>A> Atheism is not a faith.
>A> This is the same as:
>A> A says that he believes that you can become a table.
>A> B says that he does not believe that you can become a table.
>A> So, there is no way to generate a proof for that and B will never be face
>A> with a proof for him to reject.
>
>	Can B prove to A that you *cannot* become a table?  No, B
>cannot.
>
>	Therefore B believes that you cannot become a table.
>
>	This is called faith.
>
>A> B's not believing is not a different faith, but A's is a faith
>
>	Wrong.
>
>	I won't cite the whole entry, but my dictionary has, as it's
>primary definition of FAITH: "Unquestioning belief that does not require
>proof or evidence."  Personally, I quibble with the use of
>"unquestioning" in this definition; let's amend it to read: "belief that
>does not require proof or evidence."
>
>	Theists believe in a non-proveable positive; an existance.
>*A*theists believe in a non-provable negative; a non-existance.  (prefix
>a-, meaning not; anti; against) Both these positions are faiths; they
>are beliefs without proof.
	There is also another postion you are choosing to ignore. That is 
conditional non-belief in that which cannot be proven (gods). This is 
!(believe) as opposed to (believe!). You're essentially saying that me not 
believing in gods due to lack of evidence is faith. It's no more faith than me
not believing in the tooth-fairy...

As defined in the Alt.atheist.FAQ this is weak atheism as opposed to strong 
atheism which positively asserts the negative.
>	Agnostics hold that, as the issue is *irresolvable*, there is
>no knowledge upon which to base an opinion, thus no opinion is held.
>
>	If you're agnostic, call yourself one.
>
>-- Cerebus <tjm@hrt213.brooks.af.mil>
>"Call a spade a spade."
>


-- 

	|||				...Your future hasn't been written yet.
       / | \				   No one's has. Your future is what 
    =Mysh+Krysa=			   you make it...
From: engelson-sean@cs.yale.edu (Sean Philip Engelson)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
Subject: Re: Synagogue Music
Date: 29 Dec 1992 16:40:38 -0500
Organization: Yale AI Mobile Robotics Project
Distribution: world
Reply-To: engelson-sean@cs.yale.edu
NNTP-Posting-Host: fridge.ai.cs.yale.edu


In article <5055@ceylon.gte.com>, sg04@gte.com (Yechezkal Shimon Gutfreund) writes:
|> 
|> The Rebbe got his 4 PhD's from the Sorbonne in the 1940's which
|> was quite a while prior to this.

Four PhDs?  This I hadn't known.  What were his topics?  Are the
dissertations available (in English, preferably)?

	-Shlomo-
-- 
Sean Philip (Shlomo) Engelson		
Yale Department of Computer Science	
Box 2158 Yale Station			
New Haven, CT 06520			
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
From: kovalsky@nssdca.gsfc.nasa.gov (Debbie Kovalsky)
Subject: Re: Jewish Christmas Carol Hits
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41    
Organization: NASA - Goddard Space Flight Center
Date: Mon, 28 Dec 1992 20:39:00 GMT

In article <1992Dec26.025104.28032@epas.toronto.edu>, nusbache@epas.utoronto.ca (Aryk Nusbacher) writes...
>In article <1992Dec24.044101.11435@aplcen.apl.jhu.edu> levene@aplpy.jhuapl.edu (Robert A. Levene) writes:
> 
>>Anyone else remember "The Assimilated Jews' Christmas Album"
>>(phoney) advertisement on Saturday Night Live a number of
>>years ago?  It featured an actor imitating Henry Kissinger,


Not on the Chanukah theme...but last year SNL had Jerry Seinfeld as 
their guest during Pesach.  One of the skits revolved around a seder 
and during Eliahu Hanavi, Jerry came in as Elijah.  It turned into the 
skit "When Elijah came for a drink and NEVER left."  I can't remember 
any of the lines right now, but I was talking about it for weeks after 
I saw it.

Debbie
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
From: waldo@cybernet.cse.fau.edu (Todd J. Dicker)
Subject: Palestine and Jordan
Organization: Cybernet BBS, Boca Raton, Florida
Date: Tue, 29 Dec 1992 17:15:11 GMT

I don't understand why the Palestinians aren't trying every bit as hard 
to get into Jordan, which is as much Palestine as Israel.  I don't 
understand why Palestinians receive worse treatment in Arab countries 
than they do in Israel.  I don't understand why the Palestinians, who 
were granted statehood the very same time as the Israelis, decided it was 
better to leave and wait for the other Arab nations to push the Jews into 
the sea rather than build their own homeland.  I don't understand how a 
Palestinian can pick up a rifle, walk into a children's nursery, kill 
several innocent beings, and then call himself a freedom fighter.  I
don't understand why Palestinians continued the hatred so long that the
Israelis, who at one time wanted nothing but peace and would have 
negotiated, now have grown up for generations fearing and hating them
which makes the peace process that much harder.  And I don't understand
how the PLO, which has assets well in excess of a billion dollars,
doesn't spend any of that money in improving conditions for Palestinians.

Oh, wait, I remember.  It's because you're full of crap and the only item 
on your agenda is the elimination of Israel and you'll lie, cheat, steal, 
kill, negotiate, give speeches, demonstrate and die for that purpose.  
Well it isn't working, is it?  You're far too transparant and you're 
goals are obvious.  You won't find an ounce of sympathy from me-- you are 
responsible for your position today and you have had the means to improve 
your position since 1948.  If you're too full of hatred to improve 
yourself, it's no concern of mine.  The irony is, had you made genuine 
efforts at peace, it would be much harder for me to defend Israel.  Since 
you haven't been the least bit productive, it's child's play to defeat 
any Palestinian argument.
Xref: sparky soc.culture.jewish:24173 soc.culture.arabic:6020
From: libwca@emory.edu (Bill Anderson)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish,soc.culture.arabic
Subject: Re: Israel must return the deportees!
Date: 29 Dec 92 16:06:24 GMT
Followup-To: soc.culture.jewish
Organization: Emory University, Atlanta, GA
X-Newsreader: Tin 1.1 PL3

wc4209@writer.yorku.ca (Irene Berkovich) writes:
: In article <530@owl.ukc.ac.uk> dat@ukc.ac.uk (D.A.Turner) writes:
: >Israel must return the 410 deportees!
: >
: >
: >Second, I do not accept that Hamas are a terrorist organisation.  Up  to
: >now they have killed only Israeli soldiers or policemen in uniform.  For
: >many years Israel has stood in illegal occupation of Palestinian  lands,
: >and  several  thousand  unarmed  Palestinian men women and children have
: >been killed by  Israeli  forces.   When  Hamas  starts  killing  Israeli
: >civilians  they will have sunk to the level of the Zionist state, but up
: >to now they seem to be operating on a higher moral standard.
: >
: >David Turner
: >
: >(A Britsh Jew who does NOT support Israel.)
: 
: 
: By your reasoning the IRA are not terrorists.  Because they blow up
: cars, department stores, etc which are directed at the illegal British
: occupiers of their land their fight is justified. Right?
: 
: And if they happen to kill a good British Jew like yourself (who does
: NOT support Israel) well, you just can't win em all.....

You aren't reading carefully:  Turner states that Hamas is not a
terrorist organization because it has not been responsible for the
deaths of civilians.  I don't know enough about Hamas to know if 
this is true in their case, but it seems a good definition of 
terrorists in general.  What alternative definition would you
propose?

Bill    
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish,misc.headlines,talk.politics.misc,misc.legal
From: jake@bony1.bony.com (Jake Livni)
Subject: Re: "Technicalities" (was The NYPD situation)
Organization: The Department of Redundancy Department
Date: Thu, 24 Dec 92 00:01:01 GMT

In article <1992Dec5.142703.29789@athena.mit.edu> wdstarr@athena.mit.edu (William December Starr) writes:
>
>[Note the "Followup-To" redirect(s) to talk.politics.misc,misc.legal.]

I have no interest in debating the vagaries of Law when Justice is so
poorly served by it.  I have reset the follow-ups as they were.  If
you'd like to debate Law, take it to misc.legal,  which I don't read.

>"Got off on 'technicalities'" is a lovely phrase, isn't it?  It
>implies much, yet specifies nothing.  

What is considered substantial to some might be considered irrelevant
to others.  Yes, 'technicalities' is a vague term.

>Could you give us some
>concrete examples, with detailed descriptions of exactly what the
>"technicalities" were?
>
>(Note: "The prosecution failed to prove the defendant's guilt
>beyond a reasonable doubt" is not a technicality in my book.)

I read in one of the papers that the recent acquittal of Elizabeth
Duggan of murder charges may have resulted from the judge refusing, on
'technical' grounds, to allow some evidence to be presented that would
have invalidated her alibi, or somesuch.  

Note that I have no intention of pursuing this thread; I am more
interested in pursuing justice, than in pursuing Law and Money.  You
have yet to offer a proposal for Justice in the Yankel Rosenbaum
murder.  

-- 
Jake Livni  jake@bony1.bony.com              10 years from now, George Bush will
American-Occupied New York                   have replaced Jimmy Carter as the
My opinions only - employer has no opinions. standard of a failed President.
From: aaldoubo@copper.denver.colorado.edu (Shaqeeqa)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
Subject: Re: A self-confessed silly thread: Jewish Rock/Pop Stars
Date: 31 Dec 92 10:17:20 GMT
Organization: University of Colorado at Denver

In article <217@jcpltyo.JCPL.CO.JP> ohayon@jcpltyo.JCPL.CO.JP (Tsiel Ohayon) writes:
>
>There is also
>Cats (spell) Stevens who later became Mohamed Yosuf. (He converted to Islam)

Sorry, Tsiel, but he was Roman Catholic.

Anisa

Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
From: saal@cbnewsl.cb.att.com (samuel.saal)
Subject: Re: ACLU/AJC Menorah Police?
Organization: AT&T
Date: Tue, 22 Dec 1992 14:16:38 GMT

In article <1992Dec22.013029.7089@starbase.trincoll.edu>
nmiller@starbase.trincoll.edu (norman miller) writes:

>Erecting a menorah in a public park or square requires some sort of permit
>and therein lies state involvement.  It means that the state is asked to
>make distinctions between those things that are "religious" and those that
>are not (incredibly the Habadniks urged the theory that lighting menorahs
>is a secular activity).  It means--down the line--an unholy mess.

You also (generally) need a permit for a march or assembly, yet this in no
way is construed as a limit on free speech.  Nor does it imply a
distinction between approved and unapproved speech.  I think your concern
is groundless.

>And it means, even more certainly, that our grandchildren will grow up
>in an oppressive and coercive Christian ambiance.

I think that if this is to come true, it will come true regardless of
whether the Jews can place menorahs in public places.
-- 
Sam Saal      kingfish!saal OR saal@kingfish.att.com
	Vayiftach HaShem et Peah Ha`Aton
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish,soc.culture.arabic,talk.politics.mideast
From: ilyess@ECE.Concordia.CA (Ilyess Bdira)
Subject: All Arabs are guilty
Organization: ECE - Concordia University
Date: Sun, 27 Dec 1992 20:52:57 GMT

In article <1992Dec27.173957.4658@informix.com> proberts@informix.com (Paul Roberts) writes:
>In article <1992Dec27.043847.11391@nysernet.org> astein@nysernet.org (Alan Stein) writes:
>
>Reading you posts, it seems to me that you regard all Arabs
>as automatically guilty, period. If there are many people in
>Israel who think like you, there is zero chance of peace.

It does not matter what they think, what matters is what they think they
can do and get away with it. This applies for most countries.

As a side note,
Palestinians are guilty of existing within the borders of the promised land.
Zionism  implies that Palestinian Arabs are guilty of competing for
the land that is given to Jews, and that the Jews would be better off
if they did not exist.

Mackowsky  Kahane and about 20% of Israelis say it explicitly, the rest of
the Israelis do not say it but it is implied from all their statements.
If you support the law of return for Jews only, then you must see the
Arabs as an obstacle.

Zionism is not racism, but to implement it, you have to engage in genocide.
So far, Zionism remains an incomplete project.


=============================================================
Modified Murphy's first law of realistic probability:
If it can happen, it will happen...
Unless of course "it" is a good thing.
::::::::::::::********************************:::::::::::::::
Ilyess Ben Ali Bdira    Montreal Quebec  Canada
E-mail ilyess@ECE.concordia.CA, benali@alcor.concordia.CA
Phone Number and Address variable...
::::::::::::::********************************:::::::::::::::
From: mitch@novavax.UUCP (Mitch Silverman)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
Subject: Re^2: Jewish Christmas Carol Hits
Date: 31 Dec 92 02:33:40 GMT
Organization: Nova University, Fort Lauderdale, FL

ecl@cbnewsj.cb.att.com (Evelyn C. Leeper) writes:

>Michael Landon and Lorne Green both did Christmas albums.

ObKvetch:  While Landon was born a Jew (a cousin's spouse is related to
him) he converted to Christianity.  According to my rabbi (who was
teaching a course on halachah and Israeli law), the Law of Return
won't accept such a convert as a Jew. 

Not that *I* care one way or another....

Mitchell L. Silverman              | As Voltaire never said, "I
Student, New College of            | disagree with what you say,
the University of South Florida    | but will defend to the death
mitch@cfraix.cfr.usf.edu           | your right to say it."
Organization: The American University - University Computing Center
Date: Mon, 21 Dec 1992 08:26:28 EST
From: <CARIAN@auvm.american.edu>
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
Subject: Re: ACLU/AJC Menorah Police?

In article <1992Dec21.073102.12213@netcom.com>, strnlght@netcom.com (David
Sternlight) says:
>
>At the Beverly Hills Menorah lighting ceremony Sunday night, presided
>over by the Mayor of Beverly Hills, the Vice-Mayor, and a Chabad Rabbi,
>it was stated that the ACLU and the American Jewish Committee went
>to court Sunday morning to stop it (and lost).
>
>Does anyone know what the h... is going on when the AJC tries to stop
>a menorah lighting?

The AJC referred to was probably Congress and not Committee.

AJCongress has a very consistent and very complete separationist policy.
They feel that if Jews are going to oppose crosses and creches on public
policy, then they have to oppose Jewish religious symbols as well.

I realize that this may not sit well with some SCJ readers who seem to believe
that US laws shouldn't apply to Jews.

I don't know any of the details of the Beverly Hills incident, but I can
guarantee that if it were on private property and done with only private
funds Congress would have had no objection. AJCongress isn't against
religious observance, it's against tax-funded religious observance.

Rabbi Charles Arian
CARIAN@american.edu
From: jlove@ivrit.ra.itd.umich.edu (Jack Love)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
Subject: Re: Jewish Christmas Carol Hits
Date: 24 Dec 1992 02:22:38 GMT
Organization: /usr/local/trn/lib/organization
NNTP-Posting-Host: ivrit.ra.itd.umich.edu

In article <72286@cup.portal.com> Arthur_T_Hu@cup.portal.com writes:
>I never thought about this before, but after hearing Barbara Streisand
>doing a christmas song, it occured to me that she's Jewish, isn't she?
>So what are the biggest Christmas hits sung by Jews? I guess music is
>music, and a buck is a buck. Was there ever a Hanakuh hit record?
>Arthur_t_hu@portal.com

Well, this one looks like fun! The biggest Xmas song by a Jew
has to be White Christmas, written by Irving Berlin even if
sung by Bing Crosby. Neil Diamond has been doing Xmas shtick
for years. I don't know about Hanukkah songs, but I think the
Lennon sisters made a hit out of Ba mir bist du schane (with
apologies for spelling errors and mis-attributions). 


-- 
________________________________________
Jack F. Love	| 	Opinions expressed are mine alone.
		|	(Unless you happen to agree.)