From: rhs@world.std.com (Richard H Schwartz)
Subject: Re: Mensa Frauds Exposed - reasons exposed
Organization: The World Public Access UNIX, Brookline, MA
Date: Wed, 8 Apr 1992 19:41:08 GMT

I've already said that gmc did raise some valid questions.  I didn't want
to confuse the nature of that post by taking very serious issue with one
of the anonymous-one's positions.  But there was one area where I strongly
disagree.

gmc@mlb.semi.harris.com  writes:

>more than a social club. This last claim of joining for social reasons
>has always sounded hollow. 

I think that calling people's honestly held and oft-stated beliefs "hollow"
indicates a serious lack of respect for those people.  gmc mentioned that 
Mensa is not respected, and I agreed that lots of people and organizations 
are not, and that this really is not an issue if the organization serves the 
goals of the members.  However gmc has here betrayed his/her own lack of 
respect not just for the organization, but for the members.  gmc clearly 
considers social goals to be inferior to his/her own lofty ones, and in 
imposing his/her own value structure on us gmc oversteps the very social
boundaries that a social organization like Mensa helps to promote.  

gmc's view therefore appears to be one that promotes intellectual arrogance.

>First, any area large enough for a Mensa
>chapter will also have any number of other clubs, and any interest
>club on an intellectual subject will be overloaded with intelligent
>people. 

edp has already refuted this.  I will add that such clubs, when they exist,
are sometimes too narrowly focused to serve some people's needs.

>Second, unless one is a gross underachiever, anyone bright
>enough to qualify for Mensa will be surrounded by intelligent people
>at college or at work. 

This is just plain wrong.  And it is just plain insulting to those 
intelligent people who have chosen to be self-employed, or to stay at
home and care for children, or who are unemployed, or who are retired, or 
who have chosen employment in a small company or any other environment
where contact with other people is minimized.  And the most direct
insult is to the under-employed, whom gmc would call "gross underachievers",
without stopping to consider that there are many past and present
circumstances that determine a person's employment situation, and that
having the intelligence to excel is no guarantee that one will be given
the opportunity, or that one will have the physical or emotional resources to
take advantage of the opportunities when they come.  Insulting those many 
intelligent people who don't fit gmc's image of what someone should do with 
intelligence betrays gmc's disrespect for individuals on a very large scale.

So what it boils down to is this: gmc raised a couple of questions that
gave me valid cause for thought.  I concluded that I mostly disagreed with 
gmc, but I was glad to have thought about these matters.  gmc, however, has
shown that his/her reason for raising such questions arises at least in
part from lack of respect for people whose personal goals differ from his/
her own.  This is sad, because Mensa itself is a vehicle that can promote
just this sort of respect, and I doubt that gmc will ever get past his/her
own prejudices long enough to even try to learn what this means.

-rich
-- 
             Richard H. Schwartz, Scheduling Systems Inc.,
            1000 Massachusetts Avenue, Cambridge, MA  02138
                  (617) 864 8330; FAX (617) 864 8377
                          rhs@world.std.com