HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: mike@fionn.lbl.gov (Michael Helm)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.celtic
Subject: Re: But I like Television Evangelists
Date: 3 Oct 92 17:01:44 GMT
Reply-To: mike@fionn.lbl.gov (Michael Helm)
Organization: N.I.C.E.
NNTP-Posting-Host: 128.3.128.60

Niall Graham writes:
>first, by drawing attention to the original subject matter that
>prompted the current flame war, which is of course completely absurd.

Televangelists....
A colleague recently went on a government-job pilgrimage to
Lynchburg, VA -- the real industry in this place, he claims,
is religion.   Churchindustry everywhere.  The TV channels in
the hotel were almost all religious.   On one show, he watched the
TVE being handed faxes, with pledges on them.  He'd grip them in
both hands, knurl his eyebrows, shake the fax paper like it was
a heavy weit, & pray for or bless the sender.  Then another would
be handed him, & the same again.  

My all-time favorite televangelist is Gene Scott, the big guy with
white hair & the funny hats.  I haven't seen him in years -- is he
still around? If you have the opportunity he's well worth catching.
Among other things he's some kind of British Israelite & spouts all
kinds of nonsense about the pyramids, the Stone of Destiny, Celts &
al.  Of course he be one, so he do say.

>[about polarization]
>pattern of escalating hostilities  based on misunderstanding  
>and touchiness is the root of all conflict.

There have been some studies done of flaming on bbs's & email.  My
memory of where I read about this is fuzzy but you mite try the
archives of the RISKS list because I think one was cited or perhaps
excerpted in there a while ago.  (1-2 years ago maybe.)  I think
theses studies tend to look at the differences between electronic
communication & "mundane" interaction as the root -- no social cues.
However, in argument with living beings (on the phone, at the lunch
table &c) what I often notice, & experience, is that once a position
is taken, the takers harden their hearts & muster the best arguments
they can for it.  Yet, like you say, they are often not
really attached to their position (and, if debaters or lawyers, merely
actors).  I'm not sure that this comes from some misunderstanding
but rather it's a product of being trained to debate, or maybe it's
some kind of instinctive fiting behavior.
From: cedelle@yin.irisa.fr (Alain Cedelle)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.celtic
Subject: Re: Gallo
Date: 6 Oct 92 20:06:00 GMT
Organization: IRISA, Rennes (Fr)
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41

Michael Helm writes :
>Do you have any knowledge about how this works?  Is it a pidgin?
>Are French words imposed on a Breton grammatical background, or
>Breton on a French grammatical bkgd, or some mixture?  

 Gallo is a language from Roman origin, of the familly of the 'Oil' languages
 of northern France, rather close to 'Angevin', 'Poitevin' and 'Normand'.
 But after the IV Century, Gallo was subject to Breton influence (i.e the Gallo
 word 'Berlu' (digite) comes from the breton 'brulu').

 The 'roman' litteracy that appeared in the XII Century includes the first 
 written texts in Gallo language, like the 'Livre des Manieres' from E. de
 Fougeres, a Renne's bishop.
 On a more recent date, Paul Feval, a writer of the end of XIX Cent. produced
 some gallo texts.

> How common is Gallo today?

 Probably not quite common, but certainly still spoken. There are story-tellers
 in gallo language, and many people working on gallo culture. 

 Here is an adress to get more information :
                                            Association Bretagne gallese
                                                               Nis Nizan
                                                           22130 Corseul

a.c.
Newsgroups: soc.culture.celtic
From: walker@sun.soe.clarkson.edu (Graham Walker, 227 West Old Main,268-3847,)
Subject: Re: Scottish Newsgroup
Organization: Clarkson University
Date: Mon, 5 Oct 1992 16:38:52 GMT

From article <1992Oct4.195250.25342@rdg.dec.com>, by cockburn@edieng.enet.dec.com (Craig Cockburn):
> 
> 
> Does anyone know anywhere in the south of England where you can get Irn Bru
> in glass bottles ? The plastic stuff just doesn't taste the same!
> 
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>   Craig Cockburn, Digital Equipment Co. Ltd, Reading, England.     Suas

Doesn't Barr's Irn Bru come in cans now. Do they still use bottles at
all?
														GW
From: shazam@drycas.club.cc.cmu.edu
Newsgroups: soc.culture.celtic
Subject: Cliff and the Devil....
Date: 30 Sep 92 14:51:59 GMT
Organization: Carnegie Mellon Computer Club

"Cliff" sang a song called Devil Woman.  To the best of my recollection,
Cliff did not sing "religious" songs, or rather Christian music 
as it is called.  He was a pop singer.  If he had any other hits,
other than this one, I do not remember them.

Some think that because it has devil in it, it is sacriledge.
Everyone has their own beliefs.  We loved the song when we were
growing up and it did not cause us to beleive in the devil nor
did it shake our beliefs in God.  We are all still firm believers
in God and are Christians.  *smile*

Have a nice day.

Suzanne
Newsgroups: soc.culture.celtic
From: walker@sun.soe.clarkson.edu (Graham Walker, 227 West Old Main,268-3847,)
Subject: Re: European superiority
Organization: Clarkson University
Date: Sun, 4 Oct 1992 01:10:02 GMT

From article <librik.718144865@cory.Berkeley.EDU>, by librik@cory.Berkeley.EDU (David Librik):
> walker@sun.soe.clarkson.edu (Graham Walker, 227 West Old Main,268-3847,) writes:
> 
>>From article <23282@optima.cs.arizona.edu>, by gln@cs.arizona.edu (Gary L. Newell):
>>> 
>>>  [stuff]
>>>
>>> 			gln
>>> 
> 
>>
>>  [critism by me]
>> 
> 
> It is incredible that, in a group that claims to discuss cultures of
> the British Isles -- the home of offhanded sarcasm, piss-taking, and
> black humor -- that no one seems to have noticed that Gary Newell is
> joking.  Posing.  Kidding.
> 
> It's been funny watching all these wide-eyed, indignant Earnest Americans
> recoil in shock, though.  Didn't any of you notice the title of the
> original article, "ugly American post of the year?"

Certainly gln may have been trying to be humorous, however, when one
includes the stuff that also accompanied his posting, and his obvious
belief that the US has a superior "culture" "political system" etc. I
have my doubts. Also, humour if handled correctly, in particular, satire
is very effective, but, it often merely degenerates into petty piss
taking and as a result looses its effect. I believe that gln's anger at
some of the rediculous pomopsity of some of the other postings that have
attacked his position, has cause him to end up defending a position that
is becoming a little rediculous.

As to comments about this not being appropriate s.c.c material, I would
suggest that s.c.c be view as a forum where people from (or have a link
with) Ireland, Scotland, Walse, Breton, etc. can discuss topics that
affect their lives, and the role that the US has on the culture of these
lands is certainly worth discussing.

													GW
From: cockburn@edieng.enet.dec.com (Craig Cockburn)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.celtic
Subject: Gaelic charter
Date: 2 Oct 92 07:23:07 GMT
Organization: Digital Equipment Co. Ltd., Reading, England


Along with all the other charters which have been launched recently, 
eg. the Citizen's charter, the Rail users charter etc, there is to be
a charter for Scottish Gaelic.

More details as they arrive. 
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
  Craig Cockburn, Digital Equipment Co. Ltd, Reading, England.     Suas
  Internet: cockburn@edieng.enet.dec.com                           leis
  UUCP:..!decwrl!edieng.enet.dec.com!cockburn                      a'
                                                                   Gha\idhlig!
  Views here are my own, and are not necessarily those of Digital
Newsgroups: soc.culture.celtic
From: pat@cs.cornell.edu
Subject: Re: Problems subscribing to Irish Emigrant.
Reply-To: pat@cs.cornell.edu
Organization: Cornell University Computer Science Department
Date: Tue, 29 Sep 1992 13:57:28 GMT

In article <92272.171832RBYAML@rohvm1.rohmhaas.com>, Aengus Lawlor <RBYAML@rohvm1 writes:
>A friend recently got a job with AT&T, and he asked about getting the
>Emigrant. I sent a request to irish-net-request@cs.cornell.edu but
>Noel didn't receive the next issue. I then suggested that he send a note
>himself, in case there were routing difficulties, but he just called to say
>he hasn't received todays issue either.
>
>Is Pat Stephenson still administering the list, and if so does anyone have
>his address?

I'm still here and the list is still operational.  The problem in this
case is with the particular gateway that Noel has to use.  It seems
that it doesn't like mass mailings :-)

For those who may not know, "The Irish Emigrant" is a weekly digest of
Irish news edited by Liam Ferrie, of Galway.  It appears on Sunday or
Monday.  Back issues are available via anonymous ftp from
ftp.cs.cornell.edu directory pub/irish-emigrant.

All requests to be put on the IE distribution list should be sent to
irish-net-request@cs.cornell.edu.

Pat Stephenson
irish-net-request@cs.cornell.edu
From: ulick@gershwin.helios.nd.edu (Ulick Stafford)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.celtic
Subject: Re: Nationalism - or Why do people have flags in their gardens?
Date: 2 Oct 92 22:29:32 GMT
Organization: OUC, University of Notre Dame

In article <2OCT92.20305349@skyfox.usask.ca> misra@skyfox.usask.ca writes:
>>
>Considering that the raison d'etre of the Orange Order is sectarian, I 
>sincerely doubt Gary's assertion that southern Orangemen don't sing sectarian
>songs. I wonder if Gary's ever read the charter of the Orange Order? It exists
>solely to re-establish a protestant hegemony over "papists". It is a purely
>sectarian organization (don't believe me? try joining). For someone who has 
>repeatedly pilloried the GAA as being sectarian, it surprises me to hear
>Gary Spain portray Orangemen as some sort of benevolent cultural group.

Really?  Anyone who has read this group for a while would hardly be surprised.
Gary attempts to hide his anglophilic side by having a seemingly unnatural
hatred for the English International soccer team, which of course, he insists
on calling Football with a rather venomous zeal.  He has a not unusual Irish 
attitude, I'm afraid.  If it's Irish it's crap, but now the British and
Northern Unionist people are superior alltogether.  I have encountered this
attitude in Ireland among my relatives, friends, etc., and may have had it
myself at one time.  Why must we always put ourselves down?

(Are the Englishman and the American still arguing in this inappropriate
group about which Evil empire is more evil?  Don't they have email facilities
at their sites?)


+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ 
+ 'There was a  master come unto the earth, + Ulick Stafford, PP-ASEL       +
+    born in the holy land of Indiana,      + Dept of Chemical Engineering, +
+ in the mystical hills east of Fort Wayne'.+ Notre Dame, IN 46556          +
+      B'fhearr liom bheith ag eitilt.      +    ulick@bach.helios.nd.edu   +
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
From: ulick@angelico.helios.nd.edu (Ulick Stafford)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.celtic
Subject: Re: Nationalism - or Why do people have flags in their gardens?
Date: 6 Oct 92 14:25:03 GMT
Article-I.D.: news.1992Oct6.142503.16105
Organization: OUC, University of Notre Dame

In article <1992Oct5.160715.9268@vax.oxford.ac.uk> halpin@vax.oxford.ac.uk writes:
>
>dam@dcs.glasgow.ac.uk (David Morning) rebuts:
>> ulick@gershwin.helios.nd.edu (Ulick Stafford) who slags off Gary spain:
>       [ ^^^^^^ very cultured set of host names at your site, Ulick :-)]

For real cultured names I could remote logon to a Sparcstation in Physics.
There they're named after the 7 dwarves, but unfortunately there are more 
than 7 machines, so the new names are, eh, quite interesting :-).

>> Given that about the only people on this earth who refer to football as 'soccer'
>> are Americans, your creating a straw man Ullick. It's football in just about
>> every European country as well as South American countries.

In countries whre English in the official language, only Britain usually
says football.  In North America and the Antipodes Soccer is prefered 
because other sports are usually called football.  As you can see usage
in Ireland is split.  And words like fussball and futbol have nothing to 
do with it.  They're not English words, and like it or not, we use English here.
If referring to foreign words, why not explain that Calcio does not
translate as football.

>To be fair to Ulick (why, when he isn't being fair to Gary?), this

No.  Nor am I predending to be, but then Gary has never been fair
when discussing which word sxoccer, or football, is used to refer
to Association Football, in Ireland, usually.  Thank you for your
clarification below.

>
>Hard as it may be to believe, there are places where it is
>necessary for clarity of expression to call soccer something other
>than football. And indeed, in Ireland if one were to say
>``football'' outside a clearly soccer-related context, the chances
>are that Gaelic football is meant (as in ``football or hurling'').
>Gary Spain, on the other hand, lives and breathes soccer, and in
>that world there is only one type of ``football'' acknowledged.
>
>For complete unambiguity is has to be ``soccer or Gaa'' (latter
>word pronounced as written).
>Brendan Halpin                    Email: HALPIN@VAX.OXFORD.AC.UK



+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ 
+ 'There was a  master come unto the earth, + Ulick Stafford, PP-ASEL       +
+    born in the holy land of Indiana,      + Dept of Chemical Engineering, +
+ in the mystical hills east of Fort Wayne'.+ Notre Dame, IN 46556          +
+      B'fhearr liom bheith ag eitilt.      +    ulick@bach.helios.nd.edu   +
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
From: cockburn@edieng.enet.dec.com (Craig Cockburn)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.celtic
Subject: Re: Kilt availability.
Date: 5 Oct 92 19:44:24 GMT
Article-I.D.: rdg.1992Oct5.195140.16383
Organization: Digital Equipment Co. Ltd., Reading, England


In article <1992Oct5.160625.7575@st-andrews.ac.uk>, rm4@st-andrews.ac.uk (Rosa Michaelson) writes...
> 
>OK Craig - I agree that your original posting could be reinterpreted
>as a advising a woman to save money but it is quite obvious that the
>technicality you cling too is <a> A kilt is a male garment and <b> 
>women can not there fore wear it and <c> only those who gather at
>those ridiculous MALE dominated gaelic gatherings MUST KNOW BEST.
> 
I don't say that women can't wear it, in fact I said in my last posting
that it's still a kilt no matter who wears it. However, it isn't a
thing which women generally wear - they generally wear the kilted skirt.

Male dominated gathering?
I had an advert in the Runrig fan club offering information on Gaelic.
 over 2/3 of the replies (over 100 total replies so far) are from women
I am in a mixed Gaelic choir.
 over 2/3 of the choir are women
I attend Gaelic classes
 about 60% of the class is women

There are Mod competitions for women which are just as highly regarded
and competitive as the mens competitions. What makes you think they're
male dominated? The Mod has even been organised by a woman.

Well, given the choice between a woman in an American pipe band and 
people living in the highlands, I know who'd I'd turn to for advice
on the kilt.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------
  Craig Cockburn, Digital Equipment Co. Ltd, Reading, England.     Suas
  Internet: cockburn@edieng.enet.dec.com                           leis
  UUCP:..!decwrl!edieng.enet.dec.com!cockburn                      a'
                                                                   Gha\idhlig!
  Views here are my own, and are not necessarily those of Digital
Newsgroups: soc.culture.celtic
From: james@wrs.com (James Moore)
Subject: Re: Celtic Holidays
Reply-To: james@wrs.com
Organization: Wind River Systems
Date: Tue, 29 Sep 1992 21:28:21 GMT

You might find Maire MacNeill's "The Festival of Lughnasa" to be of
interest.

Author:        MacNeill, Maire.
Title:         The festival of Lughnasa, a study of the survival of the Celtic
                 festival of the beginning of harvest. [London] Oxford
                 University Press [1962]
Description:   x, 697 p. illus., maps (1 fold.) 26 cm.
-- 
James Moore                            /|\                        james@wrs.com
Wind River Systems                     \|/                  Alameda, California
	 "Half of what he said meant something else, and the other half
			  didn't mean anything at all"
Newsgroups: soc.culture.celtic
From: "david hamid" <david.hamid@canrem.com>
Subject: iona
Reply-To: "david hamid" <david.hamid@canrem.com>
Organization: Canada Remote Systems
Distribution: soc
Date: 5 Oct 92 18:10:05 EST

Can anyone help me find the address and phone number of Bishop's House
on Iona.  Also any other accomodation possibilities on the island.
---
  SLMR 2.1a  
--
Canada Remote Systems  - Toronto, Ontario
World's Largest PCBOARD System - 416-629-7000/629-7044
From: mike@fionn.lbl.gov (Michael Helm)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.celtic
Subject: Re: Nationalism - or Why do people have flags in their gardens?
Date: 4 Oct 1992 21:04:58 GMT
Organization: N.I.C.E.
Reply-To: mike@fionn.lbl.gov (Michael Helm)
NNTP-Posting-Host: 128.3.128.60
Summary: I'll be he's proud of the #23 bus line too

spain@galvia.enet.dec.com () CONFESSES:
>Sorry Ulick, I'm Irish and proud of it.  I may not support the IRA and I

Ooh, you wicked, bombastic, um, er, nationalist, you!  How embarrassed
we all are.  Repent, sinner!
Newsgroups: soc.culture.celtic
From: phys218@csc.canterbury.ac.nz
Subject: Re: Nationalism - or Why do people have flags in their gardens?
Organization: University of Canterbury, Christchurch, New Zealand
Date: Mon, 5 Oct 1992 22:08:51 GMT

David Morning wrote, "Given that about the only people on this earth who
refer to football as 'soccer' are Americans..."

Let's have some truth here.  Soccer is soccer and not "football" in the
U.S., Canada, Australia and New Zealand, i.e. in most of the English-
speaking world.  What they mean by some word resembling and derived from
"football" in Spanish or Portugese or any other language is utterly
irrelevant to the question of what the words mean in English.

Taking the population of North America into account, I would guess that
American football is played by more people in English-speaking countries
than any other form of football.

You speak your dialect and I'll speak mine, but please stop making
grandiose claims for yours.

------------------------------------------------------------------------
Lyndon Watson                              L.Watson@csc.canterbury.ac.nz
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Newsgroups: soc.culture.celtic
From: dmcnamar@netcom.com (Dennis McManara)
Subject: Port Nua, experimental polyrhythmic jig
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services  (408 241-9760 guest) 
Date: Fri, 2 Oct 1992 00:30:03 GMT

Those of you who can use MIDI files to play music on your synthesizers
may be interested in a MIDI format 1 file called Portnua in
rec.music.synth  .
Let me know how you like it.

-- 
Dennis McNamara dmcnamar@netcom.com
Purveyor of Fine Software: Composer's WorkBench
From: gln@cs.arizona.edu (Gary L. Newell)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.celtic
Subject: Re: My Ugly American post for the year....
Date: 5 Oct 92 19:43:32 GMT
Organization: U of Arizona CS Dept, Tucson

In article <NIALL.92Oct4163805@scheria.nmsu.edu>, niall@nmsu.edu (Niall Graham) writes:
> For Gary Newell...
> Once upon a time, in the U.S., it was possible to tell whether a big-band
> or blues artist was from St. Louis, Chigago, New Orleans (or probably
> a dozen other cities) by their *style* of play.   
> This is of course a thing of the past because music is particularly
> tender prey for the monster created by mass communication.
> Now do we really want to see the rest of the world being similarly
> homogenized? 

First of all I would need you to answer some questions. First off, you
seem to be implying that the quality of music was somehow better when one
could determine if a big band or blues artist was from a particular part
of the country. I'm sure you'd agree that this is simply your opinion.
I would guess that others might point out that the things that made
one area unique from another did not suddenly disappear but rather with
increased access individuals were able to choose which techniques
and ideas they liked and which they did not - they were then able to
focus on an individual vision of what their music should be rather than be
bound by the limited resources and ideas present in their particular
area of the country. Clearly this "homogenization" did more to empower the
individual in his search for a unique and to him/her superior form of
music than would have been done had this person been limited to only
the ideas that surrounded him/her.

 So the problem I see with your views is that you make a value judgement that
implies that the result of homogenized cultures is somehow inferior to
that which one sees from cultures which are isolated or whose exposure
to outside cultures is limited. I don't buy that premise...


> Gary Newell writes:
> >In three hundred years, should we be
> >attempting to keep cultures from developing in an effort to "preserve"
> >them? 
> Economic development, and preservation of culture are not
> irreconcilable objectives.  And there is no reason for
> you to suppose that they must be.

 True - and in fact I do not. I would say that those who argue in support of
laws which limit the import of ideas or foreign culture are the ones who
do not recognize that this is the case.



Newsgroups: soc.culture.yugoslavia
From: thor@surt.atd.ucar.edu (Richard E. Neitzel)
Subject: Re: MIRacles No. 13
Organization: National Center for Atmospheric Research
Date: Tue, 6 Oct 1992 12:49:11 GMT

In article <1992Oct5.201430.28038@blaze.cs.jhu.edu>, arromdee@jyusenkyou.cs.jhu.edu (Ken Arromdee) writes:
|> In article <1475300379@igc.apc.org> jsax@igc.apc.org (Joel Sax) writes:
|> >
|> >"We are Slavs," he continues.  "Our ancestors came to this place 
|> >called Macedonia in the Fifth Century after Christ.  I am not 
|> >descended from Alexander the Great!"  Most of the Macedonian 
|> >people are puzzled that Greek newspapers should claim that they 
|> >want to steal this heritage.
|> 
|> I have seen, in this very newsgroup, propaganda posted which refers to
|> Alexander the Great and which claims that Greeks oppress a Macedonian
|> minority in the Greek part of Macedonia.  These certainly sound like attempts
|> at claims on Greek Macedonia....

Of course, given the ease of forging postings, that is no proof of anything. 

-- 
Richard Neitzel thor@thor.atd.ucar.edu          Torren med sitt skjegg
National Center For Atmospheric Research        lokkar borni under sole-vegg
Box 3000 Boulder, CO 80307-3000	                Gjo'i med sitt shinn
303-497-2057                                    jagar borni inn.
Newsgroups: soc.culture.yugoslavia
From: sommar@enea.se (Erland Sommarskog)
Subject: Re: Independent Kosovo
Organization: Enea Data AB
Date: Sat, 26 Sep 1992 19:38:03 GMT

Anonymous <U52148@uicvm.uic.edu> writes:
>Personally I'd like to see Serbia open up another front with Albania,

As long as there is people like this guy, there will be little
chance for peace.

Do you think war is fun?
-- 
Erland Sommarskog - ENEA Data, Stockholm - sommar@enea.se
There are many sorts of Macedonians: Greek, Bulgarian, Roumanian, Macedonian...