HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: pnmideast@igc.apc.org
Newsgroups: soc.culture.yugoslavia
Date: 17 Aug 92 23:06 PDT
Subject: Peace Walk to Sarajevo, 15 Septemb
Nf-ID: #N:cdp:1475300362:000:1863
Nf-From: cdp.UUCP!pnmideast    Aug 17 23:06:00 1992


From: <pnmideast>
Subject: Peace Walk to Sarajevo, 15 Septemb

/* Written  4:12 pm  Aug 17, 1992 by gn:warresisters in cdp:yugo.antiwar */
/* ---------- "Peace Walk to Sarajevo, 15 Septemb" ---------- */
WORLD PEACE & RELIEF TEAM

Ramperstorffergasse 14/14

1050 Vienna, Austria

Telefax: +43 1 55 23 84



PEACE WALK TO SARAJEVO

Once again, Europe is engaged in another war, and we are

mistaken to think that it is a territorial war, for no one knows the

extent it is going to spread.



We recognise the intense death, suffering, terror and environmental

devastation that is taking place in this rea, our solidarity is with the

victims of war.



We are an international multi-cultural team working for peace,

opposing any form of armed aggression, past, present and future,

and we urge that they cease forthwith.  We are going to that area

with the aim of setting up a buffer between the armed forces.  Our

object will be to withstand nonviolently any armed aggression that

is taking place.



We as a team do not take sides in this conflict, we believe that a

just solution in this conflict can only be built up on negotiations

founded on mutual acceptance.



We ask the world leaders to find a peaceful solution to the crisis

under the umbrella of the United Nations.



Our project is to have a peaceful walk on or about the 15

September 1992 from Belgrade to Sarajevo or Vienna to Sarajevo,

depending on the prevailing situaton at that time.  Participants

should bear in mind the risk this walk might face.



We deplore all acts of violence and violations of human rights

connected with this conflict, and we urge that they cease forthwith.



The World Peace & Relief Team is an entirely independent body of

individuals sponsored by no organisation and looking for support

from any source provided no political strings are attached.
From: mitrovic@tik.ethz.ch (Srdjan Mitrovic)
Subject: Re: Clarification:  Are Troops From "Proper Serbia" engaged ?
Organization: TIK, ETH Zuerich, Switzerland
Date: Wed, 19 Aug 1992 20:04:28 GMT

In article <bondir.1.0@vaxb.gbus.virginia.edu> bondir@vaxb.gbus.virginia.edu
(RICHARD BONDI) writes:
>In article <weWnJ0i00WB6EQlXpg@andrew.cmu.edu> re0x+@andrew.cmu.edu (Radu
Eugen Edelstein) writes:
>>From: re0x+@andrew.cmu.edu (Radu Eugen Edelstein)
>>Subject: Clarification:  Are Troops From "Proper Serbia" engaged ?
>>Date: 14 Aug 92 04:23:28 GMT
>
>>According to the media, Belgrade denies that any of its forces
>>are engaged in Serbia.  What is the reality ?
>>I believe it is important in the light of the fact that an embargo
>>is in effect against Serbia and that many on this group advocate
>>military action against Belgrade, not only on the separatist Serbians
>>in Bosnia.
>>Please respond with verifiable facts, not with your opinion about it.
>
>>Rad
>In the most recent New York Review of Books, Misha Glenny, the BBC Eastern
>Europe Correspondent, writes in a long article that when Serbia withdrew its 
>JNA forces in May 1992 from Bosnia-Herzegovina, it simply left those troops 
>of the JNA behind who were Bosnian-Herzegovinan.  These were trained JNA 
>soldiers who continued to fight as coordinated units, albeit no longer under 
>the JNA name, but as JNA nonetheless.  Thus Milosevic took advantage of the 
>JNA being multi-national:  he was able to say that the JNA had withdrawn, 
>even though this was strictly not true, only its Serbian forces had 
>withdrawn.

And when leaving Slovenia the army left behind the well trained JNA
soldiers of Slovenian origin. So Slovenia is still occupied by the JNA, 
isn't it? I think this of reasoning is illogical.

Only soldiers of Serbian origin left Bosnia and the soldiers of
Bosnian origin were asked to leave to Bosnia. Actually, this
is what is done when a republic becomes independent (see Slovenia & Croatia).
The main difference is that the JNA left all or most of weapons to Bosnian 
Serbs.

>As for other military responsibilities of Serbia:
>It is impossible to believe that the Serb fighters' heavy 
>weapons in Bosnia-H have not come from Serbia, in other words from the JNA.  
>Heavy arms and munitions continue to be supplied from Serbia - 
>where else could they possibly be coming from?

The heavy arms came mostly from Slovenia and Croatia or were in Bosnia before
the conflict. I doubt that heavy arms are moved from Serbia to Bosnia,
they should already have more then they can manage. Dito for ammunition -
probably. I wonder if there is the need for weapon and munition supply
of Bosnian Serbs?

>
>RB
>

Srdjan

Xref: sparky soc.culture.yugoslavia:8156 soc.culture.bulgaria:1177 soc.culture.greek:7783
From: sk@groo.sunbim.be (Sasa Konecni)
Subject: Re: THE ABORIGINAL GOVERNMENT OFFICIALLY RECOGNISES THE INDEPENDENCE OF MACEDONIA
Reply-To: sk@sunbim.be ()
Organization: BIM Everberg Belgium
Date: Fri, 14 Aug 92 10:25:06 GMT

in article <1992Aug12.072213.29909@sunbim.be> on Thu, 13 Aug 1992 10:58:52 GMT
George writes:


 George> 	Ahah ha ha ha ha. During the last minour
 George> (What they called major) demonstration, the
 George> Skopjiens FAILED to get any important political
 George> leaders to address their demonstration. The only
 George> one they got is an Aboriginal leader ie. the
 George> equivalent of an American Indian for the US. So
 George> were is the joke.  Well if they came up and said
 George> The Indian goverment of US recognises whattever
 George> ... ie. one fake goverment recognising another.
 George> A note to make is that Given a name of Makedonia
 George> to your future country neither of us will ever
 George> rest. ie. tensions till kingdom come. and not
 George> two the true g overment of Australia supports
 George> Greece on all fronts :-) 	George


All that your writing shows is your rasist ideas. You
talk about the Aborigins in Australia, and Indians in 
America  like that they are
some lower species. It reminds me of the way the 
rasist white people in South Arfica talk about the 
native inhabitansts. It is with the same respect
that you talk about Macedonians, and the Macedonian
goverment.

I hope that this is not the general spirit within Greek 
people.

Sasa.
From: lhermi@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (Lotfi Hermi)
Subject: FOR FAIR USE ONLY-Egypt and Iran to arm Muslim Slavs (DWYA report)
Organization: The Ohio State University
Date: Sun, 16 Aug 1992 22:42:40 GMT

Subject: Egypt and Muslim countries to uplift Human desaster in Somalia
Keywords: international, non-usa government, government, civil rights,
        social issues. war
Date: Tue, 14 Aug 92 21:19:42 PDT
Location: somali republic
Acategory: international
Slugword: Egypt - Somalia
Priority: Urgent
Format: Urgent

(DWAY) Cairo, Egypt -- Egypt and key Arab and Muslim coutries had a big dispute
on how to 

Civilians caught in Somalia's ongoing civil conflict 
are being killed, raped and mutilated because of clan ties, and the
abuses are not likely to stop without an initiative by a wide spectrum
of Somali political leaders, Amnesty International said last Wednesday.

Newsgroups: soc.culture.yugoslavia
From: errol@leland.Stanford.EDU (errol craig)
Subject: Re: campsIII
Organization: DSG, Stanford University, CA 94305, USA
Date: Wed, 12 Aug 92 21:08:35 GMT

(Zoran Draskovic) writes:
>
> BANJA LUKA, Bosnia-Hercegovina (UPI) -- A British opposition party
>leader Tuesday ended a private inquiry into alleged human rights
>violations at Serb-run detention camps, saying that he found poor
>conditions but NO evidence of systematic torture and killing at the
>locations he visited.

And at home, I always make sure our bathroom is clean before we
have company over.

Errol
Xref: sparky soc.culture.yugoslavia:7903 soc.culture.europe:7223
From: nyu
Subject: Helsinki Watch
Organization: New York University
Date: Thu, 13 Aug 1992 23:58:47 GMT


Just inquiring as to this groups opinion by Helsinki
Watch that "The Serbs appear to be engaged in a
determined process of forcefully disarming Muslims where
they are clearly a small encircled minority," stocked
them in the stadium "while their houses are 'searched'
[and] the men isolated and transported to concentration camps."

In the report is recital of one incident on May 12, when a
military police attachment of the Yugoslav National Army
shot 15 disarmed captive Muslim combatants and would have
completed its office on the rest if one soldier hadn't
called out "Don't kill them all. We need a few prisoners
for exchange purposes."

Quotes and excerpts from "The UN's Silence Will Be It's Shame"
by Murray Kempton, New York Newsday [reprinted without permission]
From: errol@leland.Stanford.EDU (errol craig)
Subject: Re: HAS ANYONE GOT ANY BiH POPULATION GRAPHS???
Organization: DSG, Stanford University, CA 94305, USA
Date: Tue, 18 Aug 92 16:42:39 GMT

In article <14065@goanna.cs.rmit.oz.au> s924099@yallara.cs.rmit.OZ.AU (Petar Kozul) writes:
>Hi,
>	I remember once seeing a graph showing the population (Croats, Muslims,
>Serbs, and Yugoslavs) in each region of Bosna-Hercegovina. If there is anyone
>out there who has this or something similar, could they forward it to me.

Before or after?
From: rdargahi@trane.iaims.bcm.tmc.edu (Ross Dargahi)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.yugoslavia
Subject: Serbian Agression
Date: 12 Aug 1992 17:24:31 GMT
Organization: Baylor College of Medicine

It is high time that the civilized world dealt an iron blow to 
this obvious Serbian agression and barbarism.

We stood by in the thirties while an Austrian painter lead the world
to war and did nothing, and we swore that it would never
happen again.

Well now we have to stand by our oath, and teach the Serbians
and their Montenegran allies that systematic deportations, torture,
interrment, and brutalization of peoples of a particular ethnic
heritage will NOT be tolerated.

Whatever the means we must use to achieve this end we must use. For
the Serbian people to claim ignorance is akin to the German people
having claimed ignorance of Nazi policy. 

Let the Serbian people remember the lessons of Dresden.

Ross Dargahi
Xref: sparky soc.culture.yugoslavia:7848 soc.culture.greek:7394 soc.culture.europe:7170 eunet.politics:1040 soc.culture.australian:3876
From: ptg2351@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (Panos Tamamidis )
Newsgroups: soc.culture.yugoslavia,soc.culture.greek,soc.culture.europe,eunet.politics,soc.culture.australian
Subject: Re: EDUCATION SPECIAL: MAP OF THE WORLD
Date: 12 Aug 92 18:41:02 GMT
Organization: University of Illinois at Urbana

sk@groo.sunbim.be (Sasa Konecni) writes:

>Contribution of Cvetan and Sonja

 I thought Cvetan and Sonja were only contributing to Shopov's postings.
 Now, I see that all these guys are just a clique ...

>/ Sasa KONECNI                     e-mail: sk@sunbim.be        /

---> Panos Tamamidis
^^^^^---------------^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
^ Attention !!!!!!!  Be aware of the following new viruses:            ^
^ Konecni     virus: Similar symptoms with Mutlu virus                 ^
^ Shopov      virus: Repeats himself, and at the end says "No Regards" ^
^ Sommarskong virus: Doesn't do anything, but you can't get rid of it  ^
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Newsgroups: soc.culture.yugoslavia,misc.headlines
From: jovanovic-nick@CS.YALE.EDU (Nick Jovanovic)
Subject: Re: More Sarajevo notes
Organization: Yale University Computer Science Dept., New Haven, CT 06520-2158
Date: Tue, 18 Aug 1992 20:30:12 GMT

In article <1992Aug18.183908.1535@oneb.almanac.bc.ca> kmcvay@oneb.almanac.bc.ca (Ken Mcvay) writes:
>In article <4eWo9uG00WB68QlbYf@andrew.cmu.edu> Radu Eugen Edelstein <re0x+@andrew.cmu.edu> writes:
>
>>The images I saw were bad enough, Beirut-like, to indicate that
>>life is hell in Sarajevo (if one is alive).
>
>Makes one wonder which media Mr. Parker is following...
>
>Did anyone else see the French films from Serbian camps? The scenes showed
>folks who are clearly being starved to death, and reminded one of the photos
>from the liberated camps after WWII - I've been surprised that I haven't
>seen more commentary on the films, or other sources with the same
>information... 
>
>-- 

And what nationality were those folks who were clearly starving to death?
Perhaps they were Serbs in a Croatian or Muslim camp?  Could the average
mediaperson from the West differentiate between a Serb, Croat, or Muslim
Slav?  Could most of the pictures we are shown by the media be based on
the propaganda efforts of one side or another?  The International Red Cross
has stated that all sides have detention camps, that conditions in all these
camps are poor, but that no war crime type conditions have been found in any
of them.  It would be wise to remember that pictures _can_ lie when used to
support a cause.

-Nick
 



Newsgroups: soc.culture.yugoslavia,soc.culture.greek,soc.culture.europe,eunet.politics,soc.culture.australian
From: 8939527@hydra.maths.unsw.EDU.AU ()
Subject: Re: THE ABORIGINAL GOVERNMENT OFFICIALLY RECOGNISES THE INDEPENDENCE OF MACEDONIA
Organization: school of Mathematics UNSW
Date: Thu, 20 Aug 1992 00:37:23 GMT

In article <1992Aug18.181853.7807@sunbim.be> sk@sunbim.be () writes:
>
> panos>  Nope, it's not. But still laughing about the aboriginal
> panos> goverment of Australia.  Shouldn't we?
>
>>Sasa.
>
> panos> -- ---> Panos Tamamidis
> panos>      University of Illinois at Urbana-Champaign
>
>No we should not laugh about such matters. Because the Grieks
>scoff at the existance of an Aboriginal 
>Government, just like they do with their Macedonian Minority.
>
>But the Macedonians, are very grateful to the Aboriginal
>Community for their Great Understanding!

	The Aboriginal minority in Australia has no knowledge
in what is happening in Makedonia. Don't be stupid. It is just like the Indians in the US. If ione leader backs the Sopjian cause the reason is that
he hasn't heard the other side. How do you explain that no other
politisian went to the Skopjien rally ?


>
>   The Macedonians and Aboriginals have both faced harsh
>oppression.

	I think you are bullshitting again about the Macedoniens.
Why did Skopjia include the Star of the Makedon kings in their flag ?

> We have the common ain of Human Rights, something
>that everyone in the world should pursue. Even our flags are
>both red and black with the golden sun symbol in the center.

	Woooooo here it is. The aboriginies have a symbol they are prowd
of. The Skopjiens stole it from the Greeks. Too bad. You want tro live
with Greeks ... The decision is yours.


>
>   What the E.C. told the Macedonians in Lisbon is identical
>to what the Aboriginal band "Yothu Yindi" sufferred at the
>Catani Bar in Melbourne. 

	What happened there was that the son of the Aboriginal leader
went into a bar and was refused service. Yet your bulshitting lies can twist anything. You are not alone in this world, the truth eventualy comes out.

> Then the world condemned Australian
>Policies & Discrimination, and soon after the band swept
>up the Music Awards.
>
>   This same world condemnation will soon come down upon the
>E.C. like ten tons of bricks. Shame Australia. Shame E.C.

	The US also supports the Greek position, and other
nations are behind Greece. Even Russia is folding back.

>
>Sasa.
>
>= Kwikstraat 4,   B-3078 Everberg,    Belgium                     =
	
	Yuor from belgium !! Were do you get your info. Not from
objective sources :-) Too bad, trying to make a point on lies,
too bad.
	George
From: ptg2351@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (Panos Tamamidis )
Newsgroups: soc.culture.yugoslavia,soc.culture.europe
Subject: Re: SEMINAR: MACEDONIA IN TRANSITION
Date: 19 Aug 92 18:50:33 GMT
Article-I.D.: news.Bt8v0B.CJ5
Organization: University of Illinois at Urbana

sk@groo.sunbim.be (Sasa Konecni) writes:

>SEMINAR: MACEDONIA IN TRANSITION

>   On Friday August 28th the  Macedonian  Studies  Foundation,  a
>part  of  Macquarie  University, will hold a major seminar titled
>Macedonia in Transition.
 
 Is this an Australian University?  If so, is it necessay to bother five
 networks about a future lecture in an Australian University?

>Sasa.                                         


















-- 
---> Panos Tamamidis
     University of Illinois at Urbana-Champaign
Newsgroups: soc.culture.yugoslavia
From: sala8864@hgc.edu (gustavo salas)
Subject: Question...
Originator: sala8864@hgc.edu
Reply-To: sala8864@hgc.edu (gustavo salas)
Organization: The Hartford Graduate Center
Date: Thu, 13 Aug 1992 16:55:36 GMT



Hi, 
First of all, I would like to ask you all people to forgive my total
ignorance. I have few questions in my mind on the current turmoil in formerly
Yugo, which probably have appeared in so many newspaper so many times.
I would say I have been very busy.

The questions are.

1. How many ethnic groups were in Yugoslavia and did they have their
own country before? If so, when did they become the Yugoslavia?

2. Have there been any hate between those ethnic group?

3. Who is trying to clean up whom?

I have few more Questions, but I wouldn't bother you any more.
From: draskovi@usc.edu (Zoran Draskovic)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.yugoslavia
Subject: Camps 4
Date: 16 Aug 1992 16:03:02 -0700
Organization: University of Southern California, Los Angeles, CA
Distribution: world
NNTP-Posting-Host: girtab.usc.edu


[    ] - MEANS: Comments by the translator

-------------------------------------------------------------------
Belgrade's Daily "NOVOSTI"
Monday, August 10 1992
By: V. Krasic

After world wide TV fraud

                SISTERS RECOGNIZED BROTHERS

    TV story about concentration camps in which Serbs are abusing Muslims
disturbed the world. The headquaters of our newspaper, and also Mrs.
Miroslava Privislauer from Vienna, was visited by newspapermen from
STERN. They were following the trace of our information.

    Mr. Miroslava Privislauer, a Serbian woman from Wienna, was watching
TV in Austria when she recognized her own brothers Zoran and Slobodan
Koljevic, who were shown as Muslims in Serbian held camp. On her
insisting, as well as insisting of many Austrian TV viewers, the Austrian
TV repeated the clip about the "Camps of Death". This was good enough
for Miroslava's sister Mrs Gordana Bastos (38) from Hasburgh, and later
her mother Mrs Ljubica Koljevic (64), a pensioner in Vienna, as well as
other sister Mrs. Sanela Koljevic (27), an invalid, to recognize their
kin.

    "In the repeated TV clip, Vienna TV, commented that the whole world
is disturbed about the events in Yugoslavia and Bosnia. This contributed
to Serbs getting organized and leaving to Bosnia. One whole bus went
toward Kiseljak. People are disturbed and want, at any cost, to see
what is happening to SERBS in concentration camps in Bosnia and
Herzegovina." - This is what Mrs. Miroslava Privislauer told us in her
telephone call from Vienna.

    The members of Koljevic family are very upset. Three sisters
Miroslava, Sanela and Gordana who live with their mother Ljubica, in
Austria are not able to learn anything about destiny of their brothers
Dusko (45) who lives in Sarajevo, and for whos whereabouts they know
nothing, their brother Zoran (40) who was seen as "Muslim" in "Serbian"
concentration camp together with brother Slobodan (33). Both of the last
two are from Doboj [Bosnia, place of the constant fight]. The fourth
brother Vladimir (29) lives in Vienna. Miroslava's father is Serb from
Montenegro who lived for long time in Sarajevo. He died, last year there.

    Colleges from STERN are tracing these information trying to find
the truth. The newspapermen from STERN will visit and will ask for a
permission to visit concentration camp in Tarcani, where between 400
and 450 Serbs are imprisoned in a silo [grain storage]. Also, they
will visit a prison in elementary school in Pazaric, close to Sarajevo.
From: pnmideast@igc.org
Newsgroups: soc.culture.yugoslavia
Date: 13 Aug 92 19:17 PDT
Subject: Unarmed escorts for BiH aid convoy
Nf-ID: #N:cdp:1475300355:000:2769
Nf-From: cdp.UUCP!pnmideast    Aug 13 19:17:00 1992


From: <pnmideast>
Subject: Unarmed escorts for BiH aid convoy

From pnmideast Thu Aug 13 19:01:04 1992
Received: by igc.apc.org (4.1/Revision: 1.17 )
	id AA02003; Thu, 13 Aug 92 19:01:00 PDT
Date: Thu, 13 Aug 92 19:01:00 PDT
From: <pnmideast>
Message-Id: <9208140201.AA02003@igc.apc.org>
To: conf:mideast.action, pnmideast
Subject: Unarmed escorts for BiH aid convoy
Status: R

/* Written  5:40 pm  Aug 13, 1992 by gn:warresisters in cdp:wri.news */
/* ---------- "Unarmed escorts for BiH aid convoy" ---------- */
HUMANITARIAN AID IN FORMER-YUGOSLAVIA

The difficulty of delivering humanitarian aid to Sarajevo and other
beleaguered areas of what was Yugoslavia is a matter of intense
and agonised concern.

In the failure of political agreement, military solutions to the
problem have of course been considered.  However, military
protection by ground troops of convoys from Split to Sarajevo (or
indeed on other routes) -- apart from its unpredictable political and
military implications and the moral reluctance that would be felt by
many -- has been estimated to need 100,000 troops.  This number
might be impossible to raise.

If the protection were limited to `surgical' air strikes, we must
remember the inaccuracy of these in the Gulf war.  Moreover, in
mountainous and wooded terrain the task would be far harder than
in desert Iraq, and the much used mortars, which can be speedily
and easily moved by hand, would be almost impossible to
eliminate.  In addition, mines on the roadway can be detonated by
a single individual from a distance.

There is, however, a quite different way of approaching the
problem.  This is suggested by the work of Peace Brigades
International.  This organisation has its roots in the Gandhian
Shanti Sena.  Its main activity is to organise the protection of
persons such as peasant leaders or human rights lawyers who are
endangered by death squads or assassins in authoritarian countries
in Latin America.  The unarmed PBI volunteers simply accompany
the potential victims and their presence has been founded to be a
very effective deterrent.

Obviously the circumstances in, say, Bosnia are very different.  But
the presence of severl hundred, possibly a thousand, unarmed
women and men -- and no doubt considerable media attention --
who were prepared to risk their lives to accompany trucks of food
and medicine on their life-saving mission, could add a whole new
element to the situation.

We think at any rate it's worth trying.  Now we must face the job
of recruiting, publicity, fund-raising, contacting the relevant
agencies, transportation and no doubt a thousand other things.  All
advice and guidance will be warmly welcomed.

Adam Curle, 35 Melford Rd, East Dulwich, London SE22 0AG.
Tel and fax: +44-81-693 9531
From: steve@dmntor.UUCP (Steve Pozgaj)
Subject: Re: More Sarajevo notes
Organization: Digital Media Networks, Toronto, Canada
Distribution: na
Date: Wed, 19 Aug 92 17:39:11 GMT

> In article <1992Aug18.203012.28304@cs.yale.edu> jovanovic-nick@CS.YALE.EDU (Nick Jovanovic) writes:
> ... The International Red Cross
> has stated that all sides have detention camps, that conditions in all these
> camps are poor, but that no war crime type conditions have been found in any
> of them.

I guess we can't be talking about the same ICRC:-)  Better check some of the
stuff that's been documented here recently, Nick.  Also, check with your
senator in Washington.  They've got even more detailed and more recent info.
And it sure isn't anything like what you claim.
-- 
Steve Pozgaj (signature in postmark; cute remarks in comics section)