From: levene@aplpy.jhuapl.edu (Robert A. Levene)
Newsgroups: alt.messianic
Subject: Re: (old) Question For Rob Levene
Date: 15 Oct 1992 22:29:11 -0500
Organization: Johns Hopkins University
NNTP-Posting-Host: cs.utexas.edu

Bruce Tiffany writes:
...
> But it's not hard to understand why the Orthodox expend so much time and
> energy -- and are willing to use very unethical tactics -- against the
> relatively small number of Jews who believe Yeshua is the Messiah,
 
That's 1% truth and 99% hooey.  This "small number of Jews" is backed
by Christian organizations such as "Jews for Jesus" with budgets in
the tens of millions of dollars, plus numerous ties to mainstream
Christian organizations.  It's like accusing Israel of ganging up on the
"Palestinian" minority, ignoring their ties to their twenty-some-odd
Arab and Muslim countries allied with their cause.

>  rather
> than on the great number of Jews who are atheists, socialists, humanists,
> etc.  They can co-exist with those lies; they cannot abide the truth.

Outreach to wayward Jews *is* orders of magnitude larger than 
countering missionaries.


> It's a question of authority, even of power, just as it was 2000 years
> ago.  Unlike the other beliefs a Jew may adopt, only belief in Yeshua
> as Messiah threatens the whole authority structure of Rabbinism,

This is of course, untrue, because Bruce Tiffany simply
can't accept the idea of learned Jews being unconvinced by
the beliefs of Christianity, so he has to invent conspiracy
theories such as this, which he asserts without proof.

Beliefs in Shabbetai Zvi and Jacob Frank have been far more
threatening to Judaism.


> for if Messianic Jews are right, then Rabbinism is wrong, the rabbis
> are wrong, the whole rabbinic tradition is and has been wrong about
> Messiah, and the whole hellenistic philosophy of Rabbinism -- along
> with the power and authority of the rabbis -- comes crashing down.

If Judaism is right, then Christianity is wrong, Jesus died in vain,
the churches are wrong, and the whole Gnostic philosophy of Paul
comes crashing down.  You can read all about it in Maccoby's
_Mythmaker_ book, if you dare.


> It threatens Rabbinism at its very core,

Judaism threatens Hebrew-Christianity at its very core.  Some of the
greatest Jewish sages lived around the time of Jesus, but they didn't
follow him.  We've studied the Tanach for thousands of years, 
and still find Jesus and Paul theologically irrelevant and mistaken.
If that's not embarrassing enough, consider that most likely
converts to Hebrew-Christianity are Jews with the least background.


> The Orthodox in particular are so threatened by this that they in turn
> threaten Messianic Jews...

There have always been Jewish zealots, some Orthodox, and keeping them
under rein is not easy.  I oppose harrassment and threats to
Hebrew-Christian missionaries.  After all, many missionaries are
'tinokos shenishba' and deserve a chance to experience the true
Judaism denied them in their past.

If any Hebrew-Christian reads this and would like to experience
Judaism for real, I'd be glad to show them.  G-d's door is always open
for repentance.  It is an act of G-d's love and mercy that you can
return.  Many have.

R