HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: ewjacoby@undergrad.math.waterloo.edu (Fuzzy!! (mka Erich Jacoby))
Subject: Re: Authenticity, Atmosphere & SCA
Organization: Shire of Insula Alta
Date: Thu, 13 Aug 1992 16:41:20 GMT

In article <1992Aug13.102810.308@csc.canterbury.ac.nz> pols055@csc.canterbury.ac.nz writes:
>Greetings from Southron Gaard,
>
>I like Enrich the fuzzy's (?) idea of recreating specific happenings but I
>perceive a possible problem. If this were to be done as a SCA event how would
>you enforce the `minimum authenticity for the period under re-creation' for
>that event. Or to put it differently, could you stop SCA members from turning
>up in their normal persona? I think not.
>
>Maybe such events should be done as household events or as other non-offical
>sca type events. Then one could afford to be tougher about the re-creation
>aspect without running into the problem of people who want to go (here, for
>example, many people go to practically every event that happens), but cannot be
>bothered making a new outfit for it.
>
>Eleonora van den Bogaerde, Southron Gaard, Caid.
>Simone Hindin, Christchurch, New Zealand.
>

Well, an event re-creating a specific time and place, namely Iceland in 992,
was recently held in Eofforwic and worked quite nicely.  People mostly
came in acceptable garb (mine was probably the least Icelandic there - my
pants were icelandic but my shirt was probably a little to short and 
loose-sleeved and I wore a cloth on my head beacause I am very sensitive
to direct sunlight).  I know that a couple of our Japanese-persona people
showed up but I don't remember if they were in proper (ie Icelandic) garb 
or not.  All in all, the atmosphere was very cultlure-specific, helped by the 
garb, the activities, and most of all by the efforts of the event 
organizers.  A large booklet was distributed detailing local history,
recent events, fashions and the state of the arts and sciences which was
a great aid in preparation and background knowledge.

People were asked to come as an appropriate persona.  Many in my area are
Vikings or whatnot so this was no problem.  A friend of mine translated his
Welsh Celt into a similar, Icelandic person.  My persona is a German 
merchant from around that time, so I just came as myself on a long trading
voyage.  Other people just came up with a generic one-day Icelander for 
this event.

Hopefully there will be more such events in my area.


            _____ __ __ ____  ____ __  __
Erich the  / ___// // //__  )/__  )\ \/ /    Being held against his will in:
          / __/ / // /   / /__ / /__\  /   Canton of Bryniau Tywynnog, Barony X
         (_/   (____/   (____/(____//_/    Princedom of Ealdormere, Midrealm

Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
From: cozzlab@garnet.berkeley.edu ()
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: Pennsic, Some Thoughts
Date: 19 Aug 1992 17:27:25 GMT
Organization: University of California, Berkeley
NNTP-Posting-Host: garnet.berkeley.edu

In article <1992Aug19.005117.481@latcs1.lat.oz.au> pears@latcs1.lat.oz.au (Arnold N Pears) writes:
>
>Does this mean that all such work in the period we are concerned with 
>was accomplished during daylight hours?
>
>Does anyone have any supporting or disproving evidence?

Dorothy Hartley's _Food in England_ (which covers things besides food)
shows pictures of straw archery targets, retired from the range, soaked
in water, and set up beside the fireplace, to protect the cooks from
some of the heat of the cookfires.  She also says these screens were used
by ladies doing needlework by the fire, who by Elizabethan times had
replaced the soaked straw targets by stiff fabric-over-cardboard-or-such
screens that hung from wrought-iron stands.  The idea is to sit so that
your work is exposed to the fire light but the rest of you doesn't roast.

Unfortunately, Hartley usually doesn't give references (aaargh!), but as
I go on reading I tend to find that she has done her homework.  I have
sewn by firelight, but since I have no suitable firescreen I don't do it
much.  A Coleman lantern gives plenty of light, though of course it isn't
period.  I have sewn by candlelight too--small amounts and under pressure
of emergency.  My eyes are really not up to it any more.


Dorothea of Caer-Myrddin                               Dorothy J. Heydt
Mists/Mists/West                                              Albany CA
Argent, a cross forme'e sable

Disclaimer: This is the Cozzarelli Lab's account, not mine--but I don't
think anybody else ever reads it.
From: ailsa%ailanth.uucp@wang.com (Ailsa N.T. Murphy)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: Instructions for ancient kilt - feileadh mor
Date: Sun, 16 Aug 92 02:06:44 EST
Organization: Ailanthus Project

Suze.Hammond@f56.n105.z1.therose.pdx.com (Suze Hammond) writes:

>
> Needless to say, some minor modification is required in the SCA, but the
> very fact that cloth is now wider is usually enough...
>

but why?  *innocent expression*  B)  shouldn't we encourage authenticity?

the anglo-saxons were quite into color as well, the tackier the better.  heck,
from another thread and my own research into costume history, so were our even
nearer ancestors.  i wonder if this thing we have about color coordination and
tastefulness can be pinned on the puritans...  why is the gold lame paisley
dagged hemmed whatever tacky and not pretty?  i'm sure whoever it was that wore
the thing was quite pleased with it...

                                           -ailsa

=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
     ailsa%ailanth.uucp@wang.com                   ________
        I don't need a hero                Silence \      / Action
        I don't need a soldier                =     \    /    =
        I did when i was younger            Death    \  /    Life
        But now i'm so much older.                    \/
From: 00030929@ysub.ysu.edu
Subject: Re: Pennsic Update
Organization: Youngstown State University
Date: Fri, 14 Aug 1992 15:13:04 GMT

Greetings to all, from Vajk!
 
Final update.
 
Weather has been cold at night, foggy in the morning, warm to hot during the
day.  Thursday night brought with it the most beautiful full moon I have ever
seen.  Night temperatures in the 50s, daytime 75-85 F.
 
Last night the 7200th gentle entered site
 
There have been three major martial engagements thus far:
      Friendship Battle was won by the Allied Forces over the combined strength
      of the armies of the Middle and East
 
      The Champions' archery tournament was won by the Middle, with one archer
     (sorry, can't remember his name) scoring nearly as many points as the
      combined archers of the East.
 
      The forces of the East soundly defeated the Middle in the Field Battle.
 
In every engagement so far the victory has been won rather handily, with no
close contests at all.
 
There was a light weapons tournament, but I do not have the results of that
tournament.
 
For Pennsic, the lines at the showers have been quite short, but (sigh)  the
water is still cold.
 
Until the 18th of August, 1992,  good-bye!
 
Vajk
 
P.S.  to Hal:    It took quite some time, but your lady received your missive
      on the morning of Thursday.
From: Bob.Upson@f333.n142.z1.fidonet.org (Bob Upson)
Sender: Uucp@blkcat.UUCP
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: Who Won the War?
Date: Fri, 21 Aug 1992 20:22:00 -0500

> East won more battles, collected more war points, so I guess they won.
> Does it matter?
 
Of course it matters!  Many people spent a great deal of time preparing for this
war all year 'round.  Does it make the winners any 'better' than the 'losers'? 
Of course not!  Everyone on both sides worked very hard, played very hard, and
had a gloriously good time both on and off the field.  But it matters to the
people that fought and won (and hopefully to all the people they fought *for*)
that during that one week in August *they* were the victors.
 
Lord Macsen ap Rhys of Wyvernhall, Kingdom of the East
(Archery War Points and Woods Battle)

Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
From: frnk@cs1.bradley.edu (Paul Ondercin)
Subject: Re: Heralds for Hire in Pittsburgh/BMDL Area 
Organization: Bradley University
Date: 21 Aug 92 14:10:02 GMT

In <714214041snx@sloth.equinox.gen.nz> hairy@sloth.equinox.gen.nz (Phil Anderson) writes:

>  > I just heard on the radio that the Pittsburgh newspapers
>  > which are entering their 4th month in a strike are trying
>  > a new tactic to distribute their news:  they are auditioning
>  > for 'Town Criers'  
>You mean there are cities out there that _don't_ have town criers? 
   Yes, another ploy to piss off the Teamsters. 

   Two were hired,a man and a women. They were dressed the way official
criers are dress in England today... namely tights, big red jacket and
powdered wig. They then went to two places in downtown Pittsburgh at 
lunchtime and cried out the daily news. 

   I expected more than two... but it is neat to see!

	 Frnk! :>

--
frnk@bucs1.bradley.edu, frnk@camelot.bradley.edu, am417@cleveland.freenet.Edu

   The Further we peer into the future, the more closely science will 
   resemble magic.                         - Arthur C. Clarke

frnk@bucs1.bradley.edu, frnk@camelot.bradley.edu, am417@cleveland.freenet.Edu
From: CESNYD01@ulkyvx.louisville.edu (AlberCrombie - The Space Gopher)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Scotland's Depraved
Date: 20 Aug 1992 12:20:50 -0500
Organization: UTexas Mail-to-News Gateway
NNTP-Posting-Host: cs.utexas.edu

I never saw the lyrics to Scotland's Depraved go across the net.  Did anyone
post them a while back?  Could someone send me the lyrics or tell me where I
can find them (ftp)?

					thanx
					Kenrick

---
Pennsic XXI -- from the Mid to the East
 			JUST WAIT UNTIL NEXT YEAR!!!!!!
(you got lucky!)

 
~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^
AlberCrombie 					 - The One and Only Space Gopher
cesnyd01@ulkyvx.louisville.edu				  cesnyd01@ulkyvx.bitnet
"...you try to hurt me or my friends (especially the girl), and I got stuff 
   that will take 20 years to kill ya - and you'll be screaming for mercy
               in the first 5 seconds..." - Avatar - _Wizards_
^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~
 
~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^
AlberCrombie 					 - The One and Only Space Gopher
cesnyd01@ulkyvx.louisville.edu				  cesnyd01@ulkyvx.bitnet
"The system we learned says we're equal under law; but the streets are reality,
the weak and poor shall fall!  Let's tip the power balance and tear down the 
crown; educate the masses, WE'LL BURN THE WHITE HOUSE DOWN!" - Queensr}che.
^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
From: amlsmith@morgan.ucs.mun.ca (Andrew Smith)
Subject: Re: Authenticity, Atmosphere & SCA
Organization: Memorial University of Newfoundland
Date: Thu, 20 Aug 1992 18:05:59 GMT

In article <1992Aug20.154904.28607@pbhya.PacBell.COM> whheydt@PacBell.COM (Wilson Heydt) writes:
>In article <betel.714284495@camelot> betel@camelot.bradley.edu (Robert Crawford) writes:
>>
>>	Flash ignorance isn't limited to the SCA, of course. 
>>
>>	But still, it doesn't match with the idiocy of people taking
>>pictures of a _fire_ with flashes _on_.
>
>I've seen worse . . .  Like trying to take pictures of fireworks with
>flash . . .
<bwhhawhawhaw!> You've gotta be kidding! Someone, get them hence to the
market for a brain!

>adequately.  Many people I know are suprised to find out that I even
>*own* a flash--so rarely do I use it, but for many newer cameras, it's
>part of the camera and can't be disabled.

Gotta agree with you there, Hal. I never even bring the flash. If it
gets _too_ dark, out comes T-MAX 3200 at 12800. Or Ektar 1000. I
don't like fuji high speed reds. 
And what else do you shoot with but reds and yellows of fires and
candles! :)

As for those 'auto-flashers' You forget-------Duct tape! 

8j) 8j) 8j) 8j) 8j) 8j) 8j) 8j) 8j) 8j) 8j) 8j) 8j) 8j) 8j) 8j) 8j) 8j) 8j) 8j) 

Sebastian

amlsmith@morgan.ucs.mun.ca

P.S. Hal. Mail me, I would like to know what you use, and where
you learned to use it. (Photography, that is, naturally)



Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
From: whheydt@pbhya.PacBell.COM (Wilson Heydt)
Subject: Re: Agincourt ???
Reply-To: whheydt@PacBell.COM (Wilson Heydt)
Organization: Pacific * Bell, San Ramon, CA
Distribution: rec.org.sca
Date: Thu, 13 Aug 1992 23:56:26 GMT

In article <1242@niktow.canisius.edu> salley@niktow.canisius.edu (David Salley) writes:
>Hadrian writes:
>> The Heavies at Agincourt probably didn't have too much fun :-}
>> The next time they went out to play and saw a host of archers
>> they probably went home.   
>
>The NEXT TIME ????  What next time?  There was NO next time for them!
>They were dead, finished, kaput, pushing up daisies, la morte, gone to
>that great big battlefield in the sky.  ;-) ;-) ;-) ;-) ;-) ;-) 

Or, as we've been sadly remarking about the late Grande Dame of naval
Computing--six nanoseconds under.

	--Hal

        Hal Ravn, Province of the Mists, West Kingdom
        Wilson H. Heydt, Jr.,  Albany, CA 94706,  510/524-8321 (home)
-- 
Hal Heydt                    |    "Boycott Time-Warner"
Analyst, Pacific*Bell        |         --J. Danforth Quayle
510-823-5447                 |    "... kill all the lawyers."
whheydt@pbhya.PacBell.COM    |         --William Shakespeare
From: Joe.Bethancourt@f4229.n124.z1.fidonet.org (Joe Bethancourt)
Sender: FredGate@ocitor.fidonet
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: a poem
Date: Sat, 22 Aug 1992 19:00:02

                   THE BARON AND THE BARD
                           -Ioseph of Locksley
           (c) copyright 1992 W.J. Bethancourt III

 (written on commission from Alfred of Carlysle, of the West Kingdom)

   Good people, gentles all, a poem I offer you this day
   A parable and lesson that we learn along the Way.
   Take heed and learn, and listen well, and think on it anon
   For Courtesy's a thing that lasts when Prowess long is gone!

   There was a Bard, not noble, nor with Empire-spanning fame
   But just a simple songster to the Baron's castle came
   And offered song for food and drink; a place to lay his head,
   "Come in and sing your songs for us!" the lofty Baron said.
   
   The feast was good, and conversation rippled thru the room
   And loud above the rest was heard the Baron's lordly boom.
   The Bard was singing, but his song was lost amidst the noise
   But all could hear the Baron there, a-joshing with "the boys."

   The Bard raised up his voice a bit, and sang the louder still
   The Baron simply talked the more, and long and loud and shrill!
   Jabbering incessantly, and shouting to his friends;
   The Bard raised up his voice again, hoping they'd attend.

   He sang a song of Chivalry, of Courtesie so dear
   But the music and the words were lost to any Gentle's ear
   The Baron's bellows filled the room; the song went quite unheard.
   The song was buried in the noise, but yet the Bard endured.

   The Bard raised up his voice again, and struck his strings the more
   Trying to be heard above the Baron's boorish roar
   But the Baron never noticed; he talked both loud and long;
   Incessant jibber-jabbering that drowned the gentle song.

   The Bard raised up his voice again, his voice cracked with the strain
   His fingers bloodied on the harp, his eyes cried tears of pain.
   The harp strings broke there, with his heart. He died there in the hall
   And his spirit winged to Heaven, free from fleshly thrall.

   He stood before the Pearly Gates and looked back where he'd been
   And saw the Baron, far below, as Hellmouth took him in!
   With demons shouting in his ear, with talk that never stopped,
   Incessant jibber-jabbering; a hellish, horrid yawp!

   A constant stream of foolish noise, it filled the Baron's ear
   Eternal interruptions from a demon fishwife drear.
   The Baron's lips moved in a prayer, but God could hear no word
   Above the hellish screeching of the shouting demon herd.

   The Baron looked up to the Bard and tried his best to plead
   But demon voices drowned him out; he could not voice his need.
   St. Peter opened wide the Door and said "I'll show you 'round.
   We've got a lot of harpers here....but damn few boorish Crowns!"



              Ioseph of Locksley, OL, OP &c.
              Joe.Bethancourt@f110.n114.z1.fidonet.org




... The SCA: We have archaic and eat it too!
___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.10

 * Origin: Herald's Point * Steppes/Ansteorra * 214-699-0057 (1:124/4229)
From: mittle@watson.ibm.com (Josh Mittleman)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: kids in SCA
Date: 19 Aug 92 18:14:08 GMT
Organization: IBM T.J. Watson Research Center
Disclaimer: This posting represents the poster's views, not necessarily those of IBM

Greetings from Arval!  MIkjal wrote:

> The idea is this:  We are contemplating contacting the Department of
> Education at a local university (one of our members is a department head
> at same) and asking if one of their senior-level or graduate-level
> students specializing in elementary education would like to take on the
> challenge of developing and running a one-day program for a number of 3-9
> year olds with a medieval theme.  This program would then be included in
> one of our events, to provide some structured activities for this age
> group.

Your barony seems to be assuming that the best model for children's
activities is modern pre-school and elementary school: A segregated, highly
structured program with activities specially tailored to children.  This is
not an uncommon assumption: It is prevalent in our modern society, and it
shows up in the SCA in pages' schools, children's activities autocrats,
etc.  It raises several questions:

Why is it necessary to segregate children?  Wouldn't it be better to
include them in normal activities?  If we want them to learn our social
standards and learn how to behave in our normal events, is it not
counter-productive to tuck them away in a protected environment?  (If the
event were a schola, and everyone were attending classes, special
children's classes would make more sense.)  In a similar vein, do children
want to spend their weekends in school?

You made a point of stating that the program would not be a babysitting
service, but I don't see how it isn't: It encourages parents to expect that
they can dump their children on someone else, and go off to have fun on
their own.  I think that is a dangerous mistake, both for the organization
and for the parents & children. 

How did they deal with the problem in the Middle Ages?  The problem of
educating and socializing children is hardly new; why don't we look to
medieval models, and find out how we can allow our children to _help_ us
re-create the Middle Ages, instead of sending them away while we play
without them.  Apprenticeship, fostering, etc. offer excellent ways for
adults and children to help each other while learning about medieval
culture together. 

===========================================================================
Arval Benicoeur                                       mittle@watson.ibm.com
Organization: Doctoral student, Industrial Administration, Carnegie Mellon, Pittsburgh, PA
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Date: Thu, 20 Aug 1992 22:01:55 -0400 
From: David Schroeder <ds4p+@andrew.cmu.edu>
Subject: Kingdom Timing

Greetings good gentles,

I'm puzzled.  Everyone is making lots of noise about Drachenwald
becoming a kingdom soon and how great this is.  I don't begrudge
the good folks across the Atlantic their future kingdom status,
but I do have some questions about the timing of things.

As I understand it, Drachenwald has well over 500 paid members,
most of whom are from the rapidly growing Barony of Nordmark
in Sweden.  Talking to various folks from Nordmark I gather
that the average "SCA-age" or length of time people have been
part of the organization in their barony is under two years
(please correct me if I'm not on target).  Given that rather
"low" average "SCA-age" is _now_ or a year from now really
the right time for Drachenwald to become a kingdom?  Would
another year be "enough" time to make a difference?

I'm not over there -- I don't know how things are first hand,
though I've followed the discussions on the Drachenwald Mailing
List with great interest.  But it seems to me, from my vantage
point in a principality with a much higher average "SCA-age"
(AEthelmearc) that is hearing rumors that going kingdom soon
is *not* a good idea, that Drachenwald's plans to become a
kingdom soon may be a bit premature.

I'd love to have it explained why my concern is ill-founded,
if it is, since I deeply believe that the "right" size for
an SCA kingdom is closer to 500 than 1000 people (the more
kingdoms the merrier).  But I'd hate to see a new kingdom
in Europe go through massive hassles caused, in part, by
separating too soon.

Will folks who know more about the situation kindly
tell me why sooner is better than later?  It feels
very odd for me to be saying "wait" on such issues...

Thanks in advance for your assistance -- Bertram

+-----------------------------------------------------------------------+
Bertram of Bearington                                      Dave Schroeder
Debatable Lands/AEthelmearc/East               Carnegie Mellon University
INTERNET: ds4p@andrew.cmu.edu                         412/731-3230 (Home)
+------------------------ PREME * Press On * PREME ---------------------+
      "He indulged in every excess, yes in each licentious whim..." 

There is nothing more difficult to take in hand, more perilous to conduct, 
      or more uncertain in its success, than to take the lead 
          in the introduction of a new order of things.  
               -- Niccolo Machiavelli, The Prince
From: Jeff Lee <jlee@smylex.UUCP>
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Pennsic Weather (was Re: Pennsic in brief)
Date: Tue, 18 Aug 92 19:18:18 EDT
Organization: Shipbrook Software  (Tampa, FL)

Greetings from Godfrey!

In article <ewright.714239597@convex.convex.com>, ewright@convex.com (Edward V. Wright) writes:
> Arval (Josh Mittleman) writes:
> 
>>The weather sucked green rocks.... The rest of week alternated among
>>dreary rain, dank overcast, bitter-cold nights, and steamy sunshine.
> 
> Steamy sunshine?  Why, I doubt it went above the low 80's all the
> time I was there!

Well, different climes produce different sensitivities...  Many of my 
Montrealer friends complained about the heat and humidity; I, having
lived in Trimaris for the past two months, thought it was wonderfully
cool and dry (when it wasn't raining); then again, one night I had on
three woolen tunics and a cloak, and I was STILL shivering.  (Actually,
it was fantastic to be COLD again!)

+------------------------------------------------------------------------+
| Net:  Jeff Lee / jlee@smylex.uucp / jlee%smylex.uucp@tscs.tscs.com     |
| SCA:  Lord Godfrey de Shipbrook / Wyvernwood, Trimaris                 |
|       Per pale azure and argent, a clarion counterchanged or and gules |
+------------------------------------------------------------------------+
      "Of course!  Lager!  The only thing that can kill a vindaloo!"
From: jeffs@math.bu.EDU (Jeff Suzuki)
Subject: glasses and dim light
Organization: The Internet
Date: Sat, 22 Aug 1992 16:15:31 GMT


>Nicholas asserts that people damaged their eyes by straining them 
>in bad light, i.e. working by candle and firelight....
>This is false.  Recent research (which I recently read in summary, 
>somewhere, but don't recall where at the moment, sorry) has proven 
>that reading, sewing, etc. in dim light does not damage your eyesight. 
>Don't just trust me -- ask your eye doctor.  

According to one of my biology profs, your eyes adjust to fit the
range that you normally work at.  Ergo, if you normally do close work,
your eyes "fix" at close range, and you become nearsighted.  If you
work on a farm, your eyes adjust to seeing long ranges and you become
farsighted.

Because the eyeball (for want of a better word) "droops" with age,
people become more and more farsighted as they get older.  Thus
nearsightedness tends to become less so, and farsightedness tends to
get worse.  (I suppose shortsightedness tends to correct itself with
age, too....;-)

Fujimoto
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca