HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: m12566@mitre.org (Skip Guild)
Subject: Re: Summary (was: VFR Pilot Files IFR !!!)
Organization: MITRE Corporation
Date: Fri, 17 Apr 1992 11:34:46 GMT

Thanks for the several replies I received to problems I have 
filing a proper IFR flight plan through Contel's DUAT in the 
situation where I'm an instrument student flying with a 
CFII.  (As pointed out in one response the same situation 
may apply to a pre-private pilot student flying with a CFI 
and wanting to use DUAT to file a VFR flight plan).

It is (now) clear to me at least that:
  (a) FAR 61.3(e) prohibits the pilot without an 
      instrument rating (i.e., an instrument student) 
      from acting as pilot in command of a civil 
      aircraft under instrument flight rules,
  (b) FAR 91.153(a) which invokes FAR 91.169(a) requires 
      the full name and address of the pilot in command 
      to be filed on the IFR flight plan, and  
  (c) AIM para 298.f specifies that Block 14 is where 
      the complete name, address, and phone number of 
      pilot in command is to be placed.

(If was 61.3(e) I couldn't locate in my research).

The software CONTEL is using forces the DUAT subscriber's 
name to be listed in Block 14.  The subscriber can request 
an update to the field (via appropriate menu selection) but 
only changes to the address and phone number are reflected 
in the updated flight plan.  The menu appears to accept a 
name change but the flight plan actually filed changes the 
name back again!

This effectively prevents instrument students from using 
DUAT to file IFR flight plans.  We either have to get 
our instructor to file for us (denying the training 
benefit), or revert to voice filing with FSS using the 
instructor's name as PIC.

I am passing this summary back to Contel for action, 
hopefully.

**********************************************************************
* skip@mitre.org,          |  PVT-ASEL.  Instrument Rating wannabe.  *
* FAX (617) 271-3044,      |  Cessna 150/172/172XP                   *
* If all else fails human- |  Piper Warrier/Archer                   *
* human at DSN 478-5980    |                |                        *
* (MITRE ext 7619) or      |            ----|----                    *
* (617) 271-7619.          |        x------(o)------x                *
*                          |              0 0 0                      *
**********************************************************************
Newsgroups: rec.aviation
From: micjoh@auto-trol.com (Michael Johnson)
Subject: Re: How do you cope with turbulence?
Organization: Auto-trol Technology Corporation -- Denver, Colorado
Date: Wed, 8 Apr 1992 18:26:39 GMT

My first flight instructor (military trained), used to take me as close to
the foothills as he felt safe just to find turbulence.  We spent a fair amount
of time searching for bumps just to get me used to them, and we did find
a few.

I won't say that I am immune, but it sure did help to have the experience.  I
believe that "forced" experience in turbulence (probably with a flight
instructor) is the best medicine.

: >
: >#2:	Keep airspeed below the top of the yellow arc (continuous light
: >	with moderate bumps) or maneuvering speed (continuous moderate
: >	or worse).
: 
: ... however, do fly as fast as you can otherwise, leaving a comfortable
: margin below the target maximum speed but a VERY comfortable margin
: above stall speed.  Turbulence gets worse as you go slower.
: 

Don't forget that maneuvering speed varies with the weight of the aircraft,
getting faster as the weight of the aircraft increases.  It is VERY important
in heavy (I avoid a classification here) turbulence to fly at maneuvering
speed to 1) avoid a stall 2) avoid damage to the airframe.

Check your owner's manual.


Michael Johnson
From: wolfgang@sam.first.gmd.de (Wolfgang Diestelkamp)
Newsgroups: rec.aviation
Subject: Re: Wringing out the Written
Date: 14 Apr 92 09:45:27 GMT
	<NILES.92Apr13195151@pizzicato.parc.xerox.com>
Reply-To: wolfgang@prosun.first.gmd.de
Organization: GMD-FIRST, Berlin
In-reply-to: niles@parc.xerox.com's message of 14 Apr 92 02:51:51 GMT

In article <NILES.92Apr13195151@pizzicato.parc.xerox.com> niles@parc.xerox.com (Les Niles) writes:

   [ ... ]

>   (Roughly, "What effect does haze have on flight operations?"  Sure
>   hope it's "Makes the runway seem further away than actual, resulting
>   in a lower than normal approach.")

Wait a minute ...
If the runway *seems* further away than actual, then you *seem* to be too
low, adjust by decreasing your ROD, resulting in a higher than normal
approach, right ?
--
Wolfgang Diestelkamp
wolfgang@prosun.first.gmd.de
diestelkamp@kmx.gmd.dbp.de
Newsgroups: rec.aviation
From: brentw@coopsol.com (Brent Williams)
Subject: Re: Flying P-38 spotted
Organization: Cooperative Solutions, Inc.
Date: Wed, 8 Apr 92 00:16:59 GMT

scw@ollie.SEAS.UCLA.EDU writes:

>1625 PST 15 Mar-92 southbound between Corona (L66) and Elsinore
>(???)  ~1000 AGL (2500 MSL).  Est Airspeed ~200Kt.

This is probably the one that is based at John Wayne International.  It parks
on the west side of the runway, out in the open.  Painted green, I think.  It 
is clearly visible when you fly in there commercial and sit on the right 
side of the plane (on southbound approach)


-=brent williams
  cooperative solutions, inc.
  brentw@coopsol.com
From: eds@aero.esd.sgi.com (Edward Schreyer)
Newsgroups: rec.aviation
Subject: Re: How do you cope with turbulence?
Date: 16 Apr 92 17:16:45 GMT
Organization: Silicon Graphics, Inc.

My initial encounters with turbulence as a passenger and later as a student did cause quite a bit of concern.  Looking out at the wingtips bouncing around made me wonder just how much strain they were taking.  I knew up to 4Gs wouldn't be a problem, but just what does 4Gs feel like, and how close were these bounces? (No G-meters in a PA-28).  By including a bit of akro training in my private instruction, I got a good dose of spin recovery, emergency evasive maneuvers, and a good feeling for what G loading 



feels like.  This helped put some metrics around rough air, relieving much of the concern, and allowing me to worry about what's really important, namely flying the plane.
From: karp@skcla.monsanto.com
Newsgroups: rec.aviation
Subject: 172 for sale
Date: 10 Apr 92 08:26:23 GMT
Article-I.D.: skcla.1992Apr10.082623.1
Organization: Searle, Skokie, IL
Nntp-Posting-User: karp



I have a 172 I'm not flying nearly as much as it deserves.  Maybe there is
a netter or lurker out there who could give a good home and fly her more
often.  The details are below:

1961 Cessna 172B
 ~3000 Total Time
  925 SMOH
 Annual Due: January 1993
 IFR Panel:  Dual Navcoms, ADF, VOR w/Glide Slope, Transponder 
             w/blind encoder, Marker Beacon, 2 place intercom
 other stuff: new upholstery on front seats, wheel fairings,
              new battery in ELT.  
 Good IFR trainer 
 $16,500 


I'm available to show it with about 24 hours notice.
She's based at Palwaukee (PWK).

Jeff Karp
e-mail: karp@skcla.monsanto.com
human:  708-982-7588
snail:  pob 1494, Evanston, IL 60204
Newsgroups: rec.aviation
From: dst+@cs.cmu.edu (Dave Touretzky)
Subject: new restaurant at Rostraver
Date: Thu, 16 Apr 92 00:17:50 GMT
Organization: School of Computer Science, Carnegie Mellon
Distribution: usa
Keywords: restaurant

Rostraver Airport in Bell Vernon, PA (about 15 miles south of Pittsburgh)
now has a very nice restaurant, called Eagle's Landing.

Hours: 8am to 10pm.  Closed Mondays.  Tel. 412-379-8830 or 412-736-2872.

Food: basic American stuff.  Breakfast items, hot and cold sandwiches, and a
selection of entrees.  Dinners run $6.95 (mostly) to $12.95 (for shrimp &
steak.)  Two eggs, toast and jelly, and coffee is $1.99.

The decor is quite nice; a real surprise given the building's former dowdy
appearance.  It has been remodeled inside; everything looks bright and new.
And the service was fast and friendly.
From: wayne@schaefer.math.wisc.edu (Rick Wayne)
Newsgroups: rec.aviation
Subject: Re: ADF Receivers
Date: 15 Apr 92 05:32:05 GMT
Reply-To: wayne@schaefer.UUCP (Rick Wayne)
Organization: Univ. of Wisconsin Dept. of Mathematics


believe it or not, there is an excellent name in ADF receivers, better than
king for the most part: Cessna/ARC!

i know, i know, ARC=trash, but it's been my experience (and my CFII's) that
the Cessna radios are both better able to lock on to a weak signal and more
able to reject alternator noise than the King equivalent.

this may be the only ARC radio worth having.

as to whether you need an ADF:
	1) many airports have nothing but an ADF on the field, with no other
	   instrument approach
	2) it's an excellent way to identify a locator/outer marker (if your
	   marker beacons go belly-up, you can still complete an ILS approach,
	   albeit at higher minima)
	3) you can tune in the Cubs game on it.

rw
From: cantrell@seqp4.sequoia.com (Paul Cantrell)
Newsgroups: rec.aviation
Subject: Re: Units of Measurement
Summary: metric vs english units
Date: 15 Apr 92 17:14:36 GMT
Organization: Sequoia Computer Systems

In article <1992Apr11.034136.2854@ccu.umanitoba.ca>, umamihud@ccu.umanitoba.ca (Amihude) writes:
>   It makes a lot of sense for aviation to go totally metric,

I agree that it makes sense to go metric. However, I can believe that the
risk of pilots confusing units resulting in accidents is very real, and
makes this a difficult thing to decide on.

PC
-- 
cantrell@sequoia.com
From: don@hpwrce.HP.COM (Don Hay)
Date: Wed, 8 Apr 1992 19:52:11 GMT
Subject: test
Organization: the HP Mtn.View Resp. Cntr.
Newsgroups: rec.aviation

dsfldf

Newsgroups: rec.aviation
From: gaynier@elec.uq.oz.au (Ron Gaynier)
Subject: Re: Motion 'Discomfort'...
Organization: Prentice Centre, University of Queensland
Date: Tue, 7 Apr 1992 00:48:47 GMT

In <1992Apr6.170117.28825@usenet.ins.cwru.edu> radack@ces.cwru.edu (Gerald Radack) writes:

"|"In addition to the things mentioned already, some of the factors that 
"|"in my experience have contributed to feelings of nausea in the cockpit are:

"|"1. Engine noise.

"|"Solution: Use a good noise-cancelling headset.

"|"2. Engine vibrations.

"|"Not much you can do about this, except switch to a different plane.
"|"Unfortunately, the most comfortable planes may also be the most expensive.

The REAL solution to engine noise and vibrations is to get rid of it
and go fly a GLIDER.

Ron Gaynier
From: rcm@apple.com (Robert Monsen)
Newsgroups: rec.aviation
Subject: RE> ADF Receivers
Date: 17 Apr 92 00:28:43 GMT
Article-I.D.: goofy.23445
Organization: Apple Computer

Thanks for the information about ADF receivers. There were well reasoned
arguments on both sides of the issue of whether to get one, and the votes
were approximately equal (4 for, 3 against).

As to what to buy, most agreed that having the indicator near the
primary instruments was a big plus, which leaves the KR-86 out. The KR-85
was mentioned by 3 as being ok, but possibly a maintence problem because
of the mechanical bandswitching. One person indicated that the Terra 
unit was annoying because it jumped around digitally. Another noted that
they had had problems with the Narco 841 antenna, and had difficulty getting
Narco to deal with the problem. (Not reassuring; I have all narco radios...)

My decision is to buy a reconditioned KR-85. It makes the most sense for
my situation, seems to be a good compromise between cost and function. Its
much cheaper than a new unit, has the control head in the right place, and
should work reasonably well. Thanks to everybody that responded.

Bob Monsen
Orion Network Systems
Berkeley, Ca.
From: donnyj@milton.u.washington.edu (Donald Sudy)
Newsgroups: rec.aviation
Subject: aircraft rental insurance
Date: 8 Apr 92 18:31:27 GMT
Reply-To: donnyj@u.washington.edu
Distribution: usa
Organization: University of Washington, Seattle

Today marked the first flight of my quest to finish up my private pilots
license after a 3 year hiatus.  At the local FBO on Paine Field, I was 
suprized to learn that they have a liabiltiy damage waiver for when the 
aircraft are rented for flight without an instructor present.  They told
me that without this waiver, the person renting is liable for any damage
to the aircraft.  I had never heard of such a policy at other FBO's before
and always assumed that when you rented, insurance was automatically included.
My instructor told me that all FBO's operate this way, but many don't tell
you of the waiver, and subsequently if you damage the aircraft you are liable.

Has anyone heard of such policies?  Or is rental insurance normally included
in the rental fee?

Thanks in advance for any info
Don
From: umamihud@ccu.umanitoba.ca (Amihude)
Newsgroups: rec.aviation
Subject: Re: I thought I saw a F86
Date: 14 Apr 92 02:32:52 GMT
Organization: University of Manitoba, Winnipeg, Manitoba, Canada

In article <92103.131306AI4CPHYW@MIAMIU.BITNET> AI4CPHYW@MIAMIU.BITNET writes:
>I was out today (Saturday) working on my car and I saw what I think
>was a F86 fighter.  It had cruciform wings (they were at a 90 degree
>angle to the fuselage, not swept at all) with a large football shaped
>object at each wing tip.  It had a single tail with control surfaces
>at the top of the rudder.  And it was jet powered, but with no visible
>engine (the engine was contained within the fuselage I guess). I got
>a pretty good look at it because the pilot made several relatively low
>passes over the town.
> 
>Am I right with my plane identification?  Do any of you know of
>someone who owns such a plane in this area? (I am assuming that,
>since the F86 was a Korean era fighter, this plane is no longer in
>active service) (BTW: I am in Southwestern Ohio: Cincinnati, Dayton,
>and Indianapolis are all close by air)  I don't think that the plane
>was part of an air show, the pilot made several passes over the town
>like he was just flying for the fun of it.
> 
>I am just curious about the plane.  If you have any information, or
>if I blew my ID, please let me know.
> 
>Thanks
  What you described is not an F86. The F86 has sharply swept back
wings with the horizontal stabilizer set low on the tail...  The
F86 has not been in military service for a while, but there are quite
a few civilian owned F86's flying around in the US.
From: myshatyn@hpfcso.FC.HP.COM (Mike Myshatyn)
Date: Tue, 7 Apr 1992 22:40:26 GMT
Subject: NEEDED:  Do's/Dont's for California trip
Organization: Hewlett-Packard, Fort Collins, CO, USA
Newsgroups: rec.aviation

This  September,  or so, I am  planning  to take a 2 week  flying  vacation
through  California.  We will fly from  Colorado to San Diego and then work
our way north thru the Bay Area and possibly up to where the giant redwoods
are.  From  there,  back home to  Colorado.  I don't have any  problems  or
concerns  flying  into/thru  busy airspace so that is not a  constraint.  I
would welcome suggestions on the following based on netters' experiences:

               Where do I 'just have to' stop (even if its not on my list)? 
               What GA airport should I fly into?  avoid?
               What FBO should I use?  avoid?
               What is there to see and do in that city?
               Route suggestions?

Here is my tentative route so far:

                San Diego
                Montgomery Field
                FBO?
                 - San Diego Zoo
                 - Old Town

                Los Angeles
                Long Beach?  Fullerton Airport?
                FBO?
                 - Knots Berry Farm

                Monteray
                Monteray Airport
                FBO?
                 - Aquarium

                Bay Area
                San Jose?  Palo Alto?  Reid Hillview?
                FBO?
                 - San Francisco area

                Napa Valley
                Napa Airport
                FBO?
                 - Wine country

                Giant Redwoods
                Airport?
                FBO?

Any  suggestions  would be  appreciated.  Unless  you  think it would be of
general  interest to the net, please email your  responses  directly to me.
If there is an  interest,  I will be happy to post my final  'inclusive-OR'
itinerary.  Thanks in advance.

--
 Mike Myshatyn    Bonanza N4896J           Hewlett-Packard Company
   ASEL/AMEL COMM, INSTR, CFI-IA           User-Interface Technology Division
 ...!hplabs!fc.hp.com!myshatyn             Ft. Collins, CO  80525
 or ... myshatyn@fc.hp.com                 (303) 229-4067

Newsgroups: rec.aviation
From: aa543@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Thom Boughton)
Newsgroups: rec.aviation
Subject: Re: Landing a Skylane
Date: 6 Apr 92 19:45:51 GMT
Article-I.D.: usenet.1992Apr6.194551.6773
Reply-To: aa543@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Thom Boughton)
Organization: Case Western Reserve University, Cleveland, OH (USA)


In a previous article, smithcap@misvax.mis.arizona.edu (Cap Smith) says:

>The recent discussion of "by-the-numbers" vs. "seat-of-the-pants"
>included a number of comments about landing which I found difficult
>to assimilate into my current flying.
>
>I was taught to fly in a C-150.  Landing procedure was:
>1. Power off abeam the numbers (carb heat),
>2. 10 degrees flaps, 
>3. Trim for 65-75 mph (be more precise, but pick a speed in this range)
>4. Add more flaps, and re-trim, on base and final.
>
>The implied message is that messing with the power is a sign of
>poor piloting.  In other words, a *real* pilot sets power once
>and gets on with the landing.
>


The above is NOT a sign of poor piloting.  However, it IS the sign of a pilot 
who rents his aircraft or otherwise cares nothing for the machine.  By making 
the sudden complete reduction of power on an air-cooled engine, one causes the 
cylinders to cool suddenly and drasticly.  You have removed the power and there 
fore the heat ....now those jugs are just out there in the wind. Then, after 
the landing, they add full power to go around the pattern again.  This, of 
course, rapidly heats the cylinders forcing the metal to work in the other 
direction.

The result is the massive contractions caused by super-cooling metal followed 
by rapid heating caused by full power operation.  Like any other metal part, if 
you work the metal long enough it WILL break.  These breaks, of course, show up 
usually in the form of reduced engine life but CAN cause cracks in the cylinder 
in in more pronounced presentations.

This is not to say that one should never, ever, make power-off landings.  Power 
off landings are a valuable training tool.  They should be taught well and 
often.  They should NOT be taught as SOP!  Doing so is the mark of a 
slob-instructor proliferating slob-pilots.




--

            "Antelope Freeway One Mile"
                            ....Firesign Theatre
From: Charlie_Gibbs@mindlink.bc.ca (Charlie Gibbs)
Newsgroups: rec.aviation
Subject: Re: Old Airplane Advertisements
Date: 15 Apr 92 23:53:17 GMT
Article-I.D.: mindlink.11441
Organization: MIND LINK! - British Columbia, Canada

In article <kumn04INN6po@jethro.Corp.Sun.COM>
geoffm@purplehaze.Corp.Sun.COM (Geoff Miller) writes:

>...
>pictures of people dressed in their Sunday best just because they're
>flying someplace.  All the men in the ads are wearing suits and fedoras,
>-and all the women are wearing formal dresses, white gloves and Jackie
>Kennedy-style pillbox hats, as though they were on their way to a
>wedding or something.

     People like that still exist.  One day while flying jumpers at
the local drop zone I made a run over to the airport for fuel.  Our
tanks at the DZ were empty.  So was the plane's battery, for that
matter; we had been trying to avoid shutting down as much as possible
because we had to hand-prop it to get it going again.  But I took a
hand-held radio and got into the airport OK and refueled.

     Then there was the problem of getting out again.  Once the gas
boy left, the only people in the area were a well-dressed couple
standing next to an Aero Commander, waiting for the third member of
their group to return from filing a flight plan.  I managed to
presuade the gentleman pilot to come over and hold the brakes while
I swung the prop.

     I still fondly recall what a sight it would have been for any
passers-by: a nattily-dressed gentleman sitting in a beat-up old
170 while some freak wearing a parachute hauls on the prop...

Charlie_Gibbs@mindlink.bc.ca
"I'm cursed with hair from HELL!"  -- Night Court
From: spenny@sw.stratus.com (Steve Pennypacker)
Newsgroups: rec.aviation
Subject: Re: Do-it-yourself airplanes
Date: 6 Apr 92 17:57:29 GMT
Organization: Stratus Computer, Inc.

In article <1992Apr3.164624.143@wsuhub.uc.twsu.edu>, ajkavie@wsuhub.uc.twsu.edu writes:
> 
> One last thing.  I think it would be a great idea if we could get a discussion
> going on the net about the design articles that are going to appear in
> KITPLANES.  Comments?

I second this.  Let's do it.

> P.S.  I like all this talk about homebuilts.  I think they will be the next wave
> of general aviation aircraft.

What do you mean "will be?"  They already are! :-)
It sure will be nice to start seeing factory-built RV's, Glasairs, Kitfoxes and
others (as long as they don't stop selling kits.)  I just wonder what will 
happen when the personal-injury vultures find them.

-- 
     Steve Pennypacker		     PP-ASEL

     spenny@wiley.ts.stratus.com     Stephen_Pennypacker@vos.stratus.com
From: scf@public.BTR.COM (Stephen C. Fenwick  scf@btr.com)
Newsgroups: rec.aviation
Subject: Re: NEEDED:  Do's/Dont's for California trip
Date: 11 Apr 92 06:57:59 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: BTR Public Access UNIX, MtnView CA. Contact: Customer Service cs@BTR.COM

In article <649@oscar.UUCP> hurvitz@oscar.UUCP (Dennis Hurvitz) writes:
>In article <122140092@hpfcso.FC.HP.COM>, myshatyn@hpfcso.FC.HP.COM (Mike Myshatyn) writes:
>> This  September,  or so, I am  planning  to take a 2 week  flying  vacation
>> through  California.  We will fly from  Colorado to San Diego and then work
>
>but hey, sandyeggo *is* southern california. [...]

If sandyeggo *is* SoCal, then Mendocino *is* Northern California--at least,
Northern California of about 1960, before SillyValley ate the orchards.

Land at Little River (beware of fog/stratus--no approaches). Get the
stage (okay, an air conditioned minivan) from the airport to Mendocino
($2? per person, 2 person minimum). Eat anywhere along the main drag.
Wander around the town--bring comfortable walking shoes. Check out
the (supposedly) native arts; the stuff one street back is best.
If you've got time, stay over night at any of the B&B's.
Keep an eye on the weather--if the town fogs in, you may still have
several hours before the airport gets fogged in (200' higher),
but call the airport manager for his read on it.

Well worth the detour. Don't miss it!

Other places along the way:
Oceano: beach-front airport. great for kids, good fuel prices.
Palo Alto: Great dim sum at Mings, about 1/2mi from the airport.
           Bring bucks.
Harris Ranch: Long-time favorite. Good beef, not as good as it
              used to be, but worth a stop (dinner after Oceano?)
Monterey: Lots to do, big tourist trade. Aquarium, wharf, food; take a day.
Carmel Valley: Not near Carmel, but inland from Monterey. Nice, quiet
          old town. Eat at the Iron Kettle--great scones & pecan pie.
          Runway is 1600'ASPH+800'DIRT, and in a valley, so practice
          your short field before you get there!
Nut Tree/Vacaville: so-so/overrated restaurant, shopping across the
          highway. Cute train for the kids. Eat at Santa Rosa (STS) instead.
Boonville: Miniature Mendocino, plus a good brewery/restaurant (hmm, a trend?)
         
Have a good flight, and write if you want more information. Best yet,
buy a copy of Pilot's Guide to California, and as many back issues
of "Fun Places to Fly" as you can get, both available from:

	Optima Publications
	180 Second Street
	Los Altos, Ca. 94022

Blue skies!

Steve
scf@btr.com

P.S. No affiliation with Optima, other than a few revisions phoned in!
Newsgroups: rec.aviation