HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: meyers@leonardo.rtp.dg.com (Bill Meyers)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: .44 question?
Date: 11 Nov 92 22:19:56 GMT
Organization: Data General Corporation, RTP, NC.

In article <1992Nov6.131112.22478@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu> bobd@marune.acs.ohio-state.edu (Bob DeBula) writes:
[ ... ]
#             [ ... ]  I actually have some old Norma .44 full
#metal jacket bullets probably made back in the 60's or early 70's. The
#jacket on these is silver in color. I'm not sure if the jacket
#is steel or plated. I'll try a magnet on them tonight if I remember
#& can locate them.  [ ... ]

I still have a few of those (in another caliber).  My understanding is
that the jacket material is mild steel with a thin coat of gilding metal.
They first made a steel-and-gilding-metal sandwich, then rolled it down
thin enough to make bullet jackets.  The gilding metal layer is _almost_
thick enough to see the color ...   :-)
From: hollombe@polymath.tti.com (The Polymath)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: Need info on small .25 semi-auto handgun
Date: 13 Nov 92 18:01:25 GMT
Article-I.D.: ttinews.1992Nov13.171244.24562
Organization: The Cat Factory

In article <1992Nov10.175048.16562@netcom.com> mcaldwel@netcom.com (Michael Caldwell) writes:
}I am looking for an inexpensive semi-automatic handgun.  I think a small
}.25 handgun would do.  Does anyone have any recommendations or comments
}on various brands?  Any information would be appreciated.

I've heard some good things about the Beretta Jetfire.  You can get them
for about $150 around here. (The Minx (.22 short) on the other hand, sucks
pond water).

Keep in mind that, for defensive purposes, the .25 ACP is generally
considered to be only marginally better than a sharp stick.

The Polymath (aka: Jerry Hollombe, M.A., CDP, aka: hollombe@polymath.tti.com)
Head Robot Wrangler at Citicorp
3100 Ocean Park Blvd.   (310) 450-9111, x2483
Santa Monica, CA  90405
From: ems@michael.apple.com (E. Michael Smith)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: Bad tactical position ( was Psychology in Defense)
Date: 10 Nov 92 15:06:23 GMT
Organization: Apple Computer Inc, Cupertino, CA

In article <lairdb.721277485@crash.cts.com> lairdb@crash.cts.com writes:

#No disagreement, but I think the more interesting question is the one Dan
#brings up next: what if the subject refuses?  Assume he makes no otherwise 
#"threatening" moves for the moment, just stands there.  Could Joe Civilian
#(remember, we're focussing on the civilian response) interpret refusal-to-
#obey as a threatening response in-and-of-itself?  If the answer is "no", 
#formulate and defend an appropriate response.  If the answer is "yes", 
#discuss the civilian's liability exposure, and appropriate "story".

Remember that the person may not speak your language or hear at all.

One ofthe most telling things I ever participated in was a training
excercise for police.  The setup for the film was that an armed and
dangerous person call was recieved.  White male, mid 20's, long hair,
near the RR tracks.  You cut to the scene of someone more or less fitting
that description coming toward you accross the tracks.  The question is:
When do you shoot him?  While he keeps comming 'you' (the cop in the 
film...) order him to stop.  To stop and lay down.  He reaches behind
his back into a back pocket.  You shout again for him to STOP AND PUT
HIS HANDS UP!.  (At this point about 75% of the class has said 'bang',
the signal that they would shoot at that point...).

Well, the 'perp' (at about 5 ft 'range' from you) whips out a card from
his back pocket which states:  "Please forgive me, I am deaf and cannot
understand what you are saying.  Can you write it down please?".

BTW, about 99.9% of the class had said 'bang' by the time the hand
started comming up fast from behind the back ...

Right after that a radio call comes in that the A&D was just apprehended
about 1 mile from you ...

I've never seen such a humbled group of people in my life ... 

-- 

E. Michael Smith  ems@apple.COM

'Whatever you can do, or dream you can, begin it.  Boldness has
 genius, power and magic in it.'  -  Goethe

I am not responsible nor is anyone else.  Everything is disclaimed.
From: gmk@falstaff.MAE.CWRU.EDU (Geoff Kotzar)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: Teflon-based lubes for sizing?
Date: 12 Nov 92 20:22:38 GMT
Organization: /etc/organization

In article <92315.110030U53734@uicvm.uic.edu> U53734%uicvm.uic.edu@OHSTVMA.ACS.OHIO-STATE.EDU (Wesley Bielinski) writes:
#I understand that I full length carbide die for bottle-neck cases would
#be cost prohibitive, but why can't they bond teflon to the inside of a
#normal die (they do it to pans) so that it's permanently lubed?
#
#Wesley J. Bielinski                    | "I love my country,
#SGT, USAR       U53734@uicvm.uic.edu   |   it's CLINTON I fear!"
#12th Special Forces Group (Airborne)   |     Support RKBA
#

Teflon will cold flow under shearing loads. When total hips first came out
the first combination of materials tried was stainless steel on teflon.
Teflon ws chosen because of the low coefficient of friction. They were
catastrophies requiring early revision, very early revision. Teflon was
replaced by ultra-high molecular weight polyethylene. Which, while it is
an acceptable substitute for total joint applications, would not stand up
to the demands of cold forming -swaging- brass cases. Also, for any polymer
the least little bit of grit could destroy the coating requiring that cases
be immaculately clean.

The best bet as far as coatings go would be the hardest possible. NASA was
working on depositing crystaline carbon, in the form of diamond not graphite,
onto various substrates. This was a while ago and I never heard the outcome.


geoff kotzar
From: gt4458c@prism.gatech.edu (John Stephens Cronin)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: explosives question
Date: 12 Nov 92 20:25:32 GMT
Organization: Common Container Liberation Front


Hi,

Reception of this newsgroups is spotty sometimes at this site.  I have
not seen any new articles today but I realise I made a stupid mistake
on a post on this subject yesterday.  I stated that ONE kiloton of TNT
was 200,000 pounds.  Any moron can tell that 1000 tons x 2000 pounds per
ton is 2,000,000 pounds (any moron but one on a heavy duty dose of Nyquil,
that is).  So that would be the equivalent of 20-40 tractor trailer loads
of TNT, not the 2-4 I figured earlier (based on 50,000 to 100,000 pounds
per trailer, I am not sure of the exact amount).  Obviously, this is quite
a different answer.

-- 
John Cronin	Internet: gt4458c@prism.gatech.edu	Phone: (404) 876-1419
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Live each day as if it's your last.  One day you'll be right.  -- me
Lighten up, you're gonna die whether you have fun or not.      -- me again
From: jgd@dixie.com (John De Armond)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: fun things to shoot at
Date: 8 Nov 92 13:26:58 GMT
Organization: Dixie Communications Public Access.  The Mouth of the South.

n9020351@henson.cc.wwu.edu (James Douglas Del-Vecchio) writes:

#miles@ms.uky.edu (Stephen D. Grant) writes:

##Those small propane tanks are nice. Merely place a
##road flare appx. 6" from it, go about 50 yards (minimum) away,
##and kablam! :)

#How about a can of Prestone starter fluid? 


Propane tank will still work better.  I'd not mess with those tiny
disposable ones, however.  Back when I owned a welding gas supply
company, we used to collect the 20 lb "grill" propane cylinders 
that we found leaking.  Federal law required us to confiscate leakers
and certify their destruction.  No law against having fun doing it :-)

We'd fill up 10 or 15 of 'em and load 'em in a pickup truck for a quick
trip to the range.  Set them out one at a time and place a flaming 
gallon paint can full of gasoline soaked rags nearby.  Back off about
200 yards and fire away.  If a tangental hit is made, the cylinder will
piruette up in the air atop a huge pillar of fire.

One caution.  Make DAMN SURE your fire is good and stable and can
resist the wind.   If you lose your ignition source, the cookoff time
is excrutiating.  A hangfire is worse. A fuel-air explosion involving 20 
lbs of propane is a very serious boom.  Voice of experience speaking.

John

-- 
John De Armond, WD4OQC               |Interested in high performance mobility?  
Performance Engineering Magazine (TM) |
Marietta, Ga                         |Interested in high tech and computers? 
jgd@dixie.com                        |Write me about PE Magazine
Need Usenet public Access in Atlanta?  Write Me for info on Dixie.com.
From: bigdog@bones.et.byu.edu (Dan Canfield)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: LONG, rec.guns discussion
Date: 13 Nov 92 16:54:06 GMT
Organization: Brigham Young University, Provo UT USA

I don't have an opinion on the moderator comments... take or leave,
but I do think that a great job is being done in moderating the group.
I think that rec.guns is a must for moderation because of exactly the
samples you gave in your post.

If rec.guns did move to unmoderated, I would definitely leave because
it would be inevitable that non-applicable bandwidth would become the
norm... it does in other groups.

Keep up the good work, and leave rec.guns as it is.

Dan Canfield
bigdog@bones.et.byu.edu

DoD #0071,RP90
'89 FJ1200
'89 Indy707
------------------------------------------------------------------
"Excuss me while I kiss the sky" - Jimi Hendrix
------------------------------------------------------------------
From: n9020351@henson.cc.wwu.edu (James Douglas Del-Vecchio)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: Small autos for carry
Date: 10 Nov 92 15:05:55 GMT
Organization: Western Washington University

I wish they made another version of the Ladysmith.  (This may sound
silly:) the gun design seems ok, but I think I would like it more if
it didn't have that name etched on the side.  My girlfriend laughs
when I tell her things like that.  %^)

I have, however, had experience with several S&W autos that stunk wrt 
trigger quality.
From: cash@convex.com (Peter Cash)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Sealing your reloads
Date: 11 Nov 92 15:49:08 GMT
Organization: The Instrumentality

There was an excellent article in the most recent Handloader magazine about
sealing reloads to make them watertight (and proof against other
contaminants as well). Sealing ammo should enhance its shelf life
considerably. All military ammo, for example, is sealed. The usual practice
is to seal the primer with a lacquer, and the bullet/case interface with
some other waterproo--presumably asphalt-based--goo. (Though imported
Chinese ammo seems to use the lacquer method also for the bullet.)

The article was most timely, since my thoughts have been revolving around
buying mass quantities of components and making up a "siege reserve" of
ammo for a couple of my guns. (Could the present political climate be
related to my sudden urge to squirrel away ammo? I'll leave that to your
deductive powers.)

Anyway, the article recommends sealing the circumference of the primer with
polyurethane varnish, and using pruning sealer (used to seal the stubs of
tree branches left after pruning) for the bullet/case juncture. The author
recommends dabbing the sealer inside the case mouth to the depth of the
bullet seating. I assume you just paint the varnish around the primer with
a brush. Another important point is that when you seat the bullet, air is
compressed inside the case. Thus, you shouldn't seal the primer just after
seating the bullet--the slowly escaping air will ruin the seal.

Naturally, one should be careful with this--the sealer around the bullet
may affect pressures. I plan to try this with some practice ammo, and work
up my loads slowly.

This might be a good time to share any other ammo-preserving tricks you
know. 
-- 
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
             |      Die Welt ist alles, was Zerfall ist.     |
Peter Cash   |       (apologies to Ludwig Wittgenstein)      |cash@convex.com
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
From: jamaass@bluemoon.rn.com (Jeffrey A. Maass)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: New USPSA rules...
Date: 12 Nov 92 14:57:18 GMT
Organization: Blue Moon BBS ((614) 868-998[024])

pauly@netcom.com (Paul Yoshimune) writes:

# I just got my November/December issue of Front Sight, and thought I'd pass
# along a couple of things I found in the Inside USPSA section that were news t
# me...
# 
# There was also this tidbit on maximum magazine length (?)...
# 
# "The Assembly ruled that for OPEN/UNLIMITED category ONLY, no magazine may
# exceed 170mm which includes any pads, accessories or attachments.  The United
# States will be asking the assembly to extend this ruling to Standard/Limited
# category after we test the concept here in the U.S."
# 
# This doesn't seem to make much sense.  I think the rule about the magazine
# not extending beyond the frame was more than adequate.  With this rule, even
# if your STOCK magazine is longer than this (not likely, I'll admit), you're
# hosed.  Plus, it seems that this would be more of a concern for limited class
# shooters rather than open class, but ah well...
# 

The length specified will allow use of existing M1911A1 extended 
magazines holding 11 rounds, and Chip McCormick is at work
developing a new extended magazine to meet the 6 11/16" limit.
They aren't saying how many it will hold, but it'd be great in the
'Open' catagory to have 12 (or 13) +1 without  upgrading to a new
high capacity frame. 

Hmmm, any reason why a magazine couldn't be designed as single-
column at the top and double-column at the base?  8-)

Hmmmmm, any reason why you couldn't make a magazine with a semi-
circular or U-shape of diameter 6 11/16", which wraps back to
have twice the capacity of a standard magazine by keeping half
the magazine outside the grip?


Jeff Maass                   Amateur Radio: K8ND (@ W8CQK)
Powell OH (NW of Columbus)         Netmail: jamaass@bluemoon.uucp
From: hollombe@polymath.tti.com (The Polymath)
Newsgroups: rec.guns
Subject: Re: Cor-Bon ammo...
Date: 11 Nov 92 20:53:28 GMT
Organization: The Cat Factory

In article <19921106134053IZZYPI9@MVS.OAC.UCLA.EDU> IZZYPI9@mvs.oac.ucla.edu (Alexander Burchell) writes:
}On the subject of CorBon ammunition, although I have read enthusiastic
}reccomendations of it in various magazines, there has been some
}discussion of its unsuitability for specific handguns.  People I've
}spoken to seem to have various opinions about this, e.g.:
}
}    1)  Higher than normal velocity ammunition cannot be used in
}aluminum-frame automatics (e.g. SIG) because it will bend the frame.
}I have heard it suggested (by an employee of a gun store) that SIG
}will not honor the factory warranty if high-velocity ammunition is
}used in the gun.

If there's one thing I've learned in the past year it's that the fact that
someone is standing behind the counter in a gun store doesn't in the least
imply they know what they're talking about.

I called SIG and asked one of their techs about this very point.  He told
me my P226 can handle +p ammunition as long as it's loaded within SAAMI
maximums.  Then I called COR-BON and asked about their ammunition.  They
assured me it's loaded within SAAMI maximums.  Therefor, the SIG can use
COR-BON (and mine shoots very accurately with it, thank you).

As for the SIG factory warranty, you don't have to worry about it because
there isn't one.  I'm sure they'll back up their reputation by making good
on any defective gun, but there's nothing in any of the paperwork that
came with mine that says so.

}    2)  Such ammunition *can* be used in any modern semi-automatic
}handgun without problem.  The only difficulties have been encountered
}in very old handguns.

I'd check with the manufacturer, just to be sure.  (I did and I am).

The Polymath (aka: Jerry Hollombe, M.A., CDP, aka: hollombe@polymath.tti.com)
Head Robot Wrangler at Citicorp
3100 Ocean Park Blvd.   (310) 450-9111, x2483
Santa Monica, CA  90405
Newsgroups: rec.pyrotechnics
From: ag625@yfn.ysu.edu (George M. Gruschow)
Subject: Re: BIC lighter explosion
Organization: Youngstown State University/Youngstown Free-Net
Date: Wed, 11 Nov 1992 18:37:16 GMT


Like "sally" said, the lighter has to be upside down (It just 
leaks the butane out otherwise)...
--
From: billn@hpcvaac.cv.hp.com (bill nelson)
Newsgroups: rec.pyrotechnics
Subject: Re: Ammonium Nitrate
Date: 11 Nov 92 01:21:45 GMT
Organization: Hewlett-Packard Company, Corvallis, Oregon USA

rboudrie@chpc.org (Rob Boudrie) writes:
: >>As a note of interest. The BATF? has recently reclassed flash as a Class
: >>A explosive. That means commercial handling just like with dynamite and
: >>blasting caps.
: 
: Does this mean that those wonderful exploding targets made by the John
: Drapkus company in Ct will be going off the market?  [ these targets are
: self adgesive 2" squared of 1/2 inch thick styrofoam with a 1" hole
: in the center, filled with flash powder and covered by cardboard on
: each side.  One side has a red dot; the other double sided tape.  You
: really notice when 9ou shoot one of these!!! ]

I don't think it is flash powder - at least, it isn't all flash powder.
I believe it contains an amount of primary explosive.

The ones I have seen have been inconsistent - some of them have just
burned, rather than exploding. I bought one batch, and lost interest.
For one thing, I do most of my shooting off of a bench rest. So they
have to be put out at about 300 yards to make them challenging. They
can also be fun as offhand tarkets at 50 yards.

bill
Newsgroups: rec.pyrotechnics
From: ahahma@polaris.utu.fi (Arno Hahma)
Subject: Re: Ammonium Nitrate
Organization: University of Turku
Date: Fri, 6 Nov 92 11:59:54 GMT

In article <1992Nov3.165832.20271@hpcvaac.cv.hp.com> billn@hpcvaac.cv.hp.com (bill nelson) writes:

>: between 4 and 6 feet deep) and fired it.  The ANFO most certainly
>: detonated, unless you believe a ~50 foot jet of water would be created
>: by the PETN.  A land based test of 5kg ANFO in a plastic bag also 
>: detonated.

>Hm. I am surprised. Without strong confinement, you should not have
>been able to detonate the ANFO. At least, only a very small amount
>of it should have detonated.

It is quite possible to have the ANFO detonate without any
confinement. It is also possible to do so without any booster charge,
just the blasting cap. I have demonstrated this many times with
fertilizer grade AN and I am sure the demonstration can be repeated.
It is also very possible to make water slurries, that are cap
sensitive and have a small critical diameter, such as 2 cm. You don't
need any explosives as sensitizers.

>might be surprised.  Even an M-80 will create quite a surprising
>column of water, if just under the surface.

It will. But if you drop the 5 kg charge 2..3 meters deep and it still
throws several cubic meters of water up to 25 m or so... 

>Bill

ArNO
    2


Newsgroups: rec.pyrotechnics
From: billn@hpcvaac.cv.hp.com (bill nelson)
Subject: Re: about that flash powder
Organization: Hewlett-Packard Company, Corvallis, Oregon USA
Date: Sat, 7 Nov 1992 00:47:34 GMT

RAM146@psuvm.psu.edu () writes:
:     I'm sorta new to the net and to the field of pyrotechnics.  But I've been h
: earing a lot lately about flash powder and what it does, how it is made and so
: on.  From what I have read here in REC.Pyro is that the stuff is dangerous to m
: ake and store.  I would like to know if there is a compnay that supplys flash p
: owder and if so whats the address.  I appreciate any and all advice that can be
:  given.

Check with your local magicians supplies store. They carry two component
flash powders. You buy them and mix before use. I doubt if you will be
able to find a company that makes and ships the mixed powder - it is too
hazardous. Be careful, and follow the directions - always treat it like it 
may blow up at any moment.

Bill
Newsgroups: rec.pyrotechnics
From: gilchr@ee.ualberta.ca (Andrew Gilchrist)
Subject: Re: Silver Compounds
Organization: University Of Alberta, Edmonton Canada
Date: Fri, 6 Nov 1992 10:29:03 GMT


Yes, silver acetylide can be made this way. Yes, it is dangerous.
I believe the Dept. of War's old field munitions manual specifies
dissolving a silver coin in nitric acid to get the silver nitrate.

Silver oxalate is also highly explosive.
Does anyone know, offhand, the solubility of silver oxalate in water?
Would this precipitate?

More on silver nitride (which apparently forms when many silver compounds
are put in an ammoniacal solution... major bummer):

Photo. Science & Engineering, 10: "Silver nitride can be detonated by shock
	even if wet. Detonation temperature is 100 C."
Mellor, 8: "Dried silver nitride explodes readily, even from a strong
	flash of light."


I can't believe no one here knows anyone who has been maimed by this
stuff.  Happens accidentally in photo labs (not developing labs) occaisonally.

Newsgroups: rec.pyrotechnics
From: wwarf@silver.ucs.indiana.edu (Wayne J. Warf)
Subject: Explosive/Pyrotechnic Bookshelf
Organization: Indiana University
Date: Fri, 6 Nov 1992 01:09:31 GMT



I'm trying to build a library of references on pyrotechnics and explosives, 
their manufacture and use. I'm looking for suggestions as to what to include.
These should be books that are relatively layman directed <i.e., not
directed toward mass manufacture>. I would prefer to, obviously, exclude
books that are either fraudulent or patently unsafe in their directions/
methods.

Thanks for the input.

-- 
 +--------------------------------------------------------------------+
 | Wayne J. Warf -- WWARF@ucs.indiana.edu -- I speak for myself only  |
 | Midterm Countdown-Bill and the Congress have to '94 to screw it up |
 +--------------------------------------------------------------------+
From: rani@barsoom.nhh.no (Ragnar Nielsen)
Newsgroups: rec.pyrotechnics
Subject: Re: Big Bang
Date: 5 Nov 92 07:28:23 GMT
Organization: Norwegian School of Economics

kridnix@faraday.rice.edu (Alan Cheville) writes:

>|> I was watching TV and saw a show about police training and they were
>|> using some device that they called a "flash boom" device.  What is this
>|> thing and is it dangerous or just like a big cracker?  How is is ignited?
>|> The explosion was more than that of some M-100's I've played with.

>This may be a military style grenade simulator
>or an artillery simulator (same, but it whistles like a demon before it explodes).

Or it could be a 'stun grenade'; used by quite a few special police units in
hostage rescue scenarios. This device makes a big flash and a large boom and
is said to paralyze human objects in its immediate vincinity, giving the
rescue team a few seconds worth of head start.

regards,

ragnar
Newsgroups: rec.pyrotechnics