From: kytan@mantra.fia.dmg.ml.com (Kok-Yong Tan)
Subject: Re: MY: Think Malaysian, not Malay, Chinese, Indian.
Organization: Organised?  Here?  Hahahahahahahaha.....
	<1992Nov10.061449.4803@ntuix.ntu.ac.sg>
Date: Wed, 11 Nov 1992 16:18:47 GMT

In article <1992Nov10.061449.4803@ntuix.ntu.ac.sg> eoahmad@ntuix.ntu.ac.sg (Othman Ahmad) writes:

>Kok-Yong Tan (kytan@mantra.fia.dmg.ml.com) wrote:
>: >Malaysia is fortunate that the misuse of power is only in giving scholarships
>: >to Malays who hold the political power in Malaysia. It is better to be
>: >governed by intelligent educated masters than stupid ones.
>: 
>: A tyrant is a tyrant, educated or not.
>Maybe you'd loved to be under an uneducated tyrant like Genghis Khan?
>: >he is the absolute power in USA.
>: >	   Everyone must obey him. If not, there will be chaos as in other
>: >nations. Malaysia is still young, we have never DIE for democracy. We never
>: >have to confront the problems of DEMOCRACY.
>: 
>: He is NOT the "absolute power in the US!!!"  The Senate and Congress can
>: override his authority if they have a sufficient majority (two-thirds, if I'm
>: not wrong.)  Even if he wants to declare war, he still has to provide
>: justification to both Houses.  Remember Nixon?  Well, he was President and look
>So is Malaysia, but He can do a lot more things by himself like declaring
>Martial Law, Push the Nuclear button etc. than a Malaysia prime minister.
>Just look at President Marcos.
>: your research before you shoot your mouth off and yourself in the foot!!!
>Who shoots whos mouth? Why don't you do your research more? At least learn
>the Malaysian and Singaporean constitution first.

What has the Malaysian or Singaporean constitution got to do with it?  What has
Marcos got to do with it?  You mentioned the United States.  I'm only talking
about the United States.  As I've included your posts above, any netter can see
that you are now trying to expand your argument.  Say what you mean and mean
what you say.  Don't waffle around and start claiming that you actually meant
something else when you say something.  Also, "declaring Martial law" and
"push[ing] the Nuclear button" is not as easy as you think.  For nuclear
retaliation, an aide holds on to the briefcase containing the activation codes.
Do you think that the aide is going to give it to the President when there is
obviously nothing wrong with the world and the President just says "Oooh, I'd
like to see Moscow glow in the dark?"  Even "Martial law" has to clear through
both Houses or it becomes an illegal law.  The armed forces is committed to
obeying every LEGAL (note the emphasis) order of the President.  If he says
"General, I want you to tell your troops to shoot everyone I don't like."  he
is not likely to be obeyed.  It is evident that you are running your argument
on your emotions alone and not thinking too clearly.

>: 
>: >	   With so many dictators and potential mass murderers in Malaysia and
>: >Singapore, I just pray that we are all right. 
>: 
>: I take that as a veiled insult.  Of course, you are an absolute paragon of
>
>Are you one of them?

You seem to be insinuating that of me, along with quite a number of people.

>: virtue and hypocrisy never enters your mind.  Yeah, right!!!  You seem to think
>: that we oppress Malays in Singapore and would harm them in any way.  Since you

>I never mention in any way about Malays in Singapore. In fact I should remind
>a lot of Malysians that the Singapore Constitution also has the 
>"Malay Special Privileges" which are actually touched lightly by Edmund.
>In fact I'm so surprised that Malaysian Chinese in Singapore do not know that
>it exists.

What makes you think we don't know about it?  Are you against the privileges?

>: are in Singapore, you should be able to see that the average Malay (I'm not
>: even talking about the better-off ones) lives a great deal better than the
>: average Chinese in Malaysia (and even some of the Malays in Malaysia!!!)  There
>: are no "Chinese-only" scholarships in Singapore.  Everyone gets where they are
>
>This I agree completely but have you ever talk openly to any Malay in Singapore?
>I have and it is certainly not what you want to convery it here. Secretly
>I believe you know what it is, but you're just trying to mislead people.
>: by merit alone, regardless of race: if you've got the smarts, you make it.

Mislead people?  How?  Do tell.  I have spoken openly with Malays in Singapore
but I predict that you will say that because I am not Malay, no Malay would
speak openly with me.  If so, I cannot confirm or refute it since I don't carry
a lie detector around with me when I talk to people.  And you agree with me?
Wowee!  Deity be praised!!!

>If you carefully look at the entrace qualifications at Raffles' institution,
>you may wonder. I got a very informative data from Pillay who was formerly
>at Raffles Institution.

I don't know about RI.  I never went there.  I'm an ACSian.  We're rivals.

>In fact the cost of the Special Privileges in Singapore could be higher than
>in Malaysia given the much smaller Malay population.
>
>Was it S $50 million for 200 thousand Malays? Has it increased?
>The strange thing is that this is not well known.

I fail to see why the knowledge of the exact amount has to do with it.  Could
you elaborate?  Is it too much?  Is it too little?  If so (in either case), why
do you think so? 

>: Even in the military: we had our first Malay fighter jock some time back.
>: 
>: >	   Remember that Philippines were peaceful for so many years although
					  ^^^^^^^^
>: >they have no apparent racial tensions.
>: 
>: You obviously have had your head stuck in the sand like an ostrich.  Even when
>: Marcos was in power, there were Muslim and other rebellions.  Since he had

>what makes you think I do not know? I'm from SABAH, neighbours and relatives
>as well. I'm a Suluk, which is a race in Tawi-tawi islands.

Well and fine but if you DO know, why did you say that the Phillipines were
"peaceful?"  I have highlighted your EXACT words above with "^^^^^".  See for
yourself what you wrote.  I did not misquote you nor quote you out of context.

>	   Those other rebellions? Why don't you elaborate? You think I do not
>know? I believe you know but just not wanting to tell the whole truth because
>the half-truth supports your argument.

What half-truths?  What have the details of the other rebellions got to do with
it?  All I am doing is refuting your argument that the "Phillipines were
peaceful."  I am showing you that the Phillipines were NOT peaceful.  Whether
you have one rebellion or many rebellions of various types, races, creeds,
religions, etc, etc, rebellion(s) still show(s) that the Phillipines were NOT
peaceful.  Yes, I could bring up the Moro rebellions (see, I even know the name
of the people!) but a rebellion shows that a land is NOT peaceful.  After all,
it's the "Moro REBELLION" and not the "Moro Going-For-Walkies-In-The-Park", for
crying out loud.

>	   Your honesty in getting a solution is suspect. Your racist tendency
>is very apparent here.

Racist?  Where?  Getting a solution?  Since when?  I never put forth a solution
to the world's problems.  I am merely correcting your presentation of the facts
(or what you seem to think are the facts.)

>: total control, he could also control the news media!!!  Think what that means
>: and why so many South-East Asian governments control their news media with an
>: iron hand!!!

>Don't you know that about 30% Philippinos still support Marcos and his
>cronies. Why do you think Aquino government is so scared to let his descendents
>stand for election? Unless they have reasons to be scared or whatever.

So?  I ask again:  What has this got to do with the price of beans?  This is a
total non-sequitur.  What you say has some semblance of truth but I fail to see
your point.

>: 
>: >	   I TELL YOU, if there are no chinese, malay, indian divisions, people
>: >will find other DIVISIONS. Just to get excuse to be DIFFERENT.
>: 
>: I suppose absolute conformity is to your liking?  Especially if everyone were
>: to conform to your ideals.  Jeez!  Talk about egocentric!!!
>I thought I meant very clearly the opposite. Why do you think I argue that
>the real issue is not trying to get people into ONE style/form, but other
>more important ones. Why do you think I bring up the Thai and Phillippine
>cases?

Perhaps you had better take a refresher course in English since you don't come
across clearly at all.  IF I were the ONLY one who takes issue with you,
perhaps it could be said that I was missing something, but I am NOT the only
one.  So many people have disputed you and have pointed out your glaring
errors, falsehoods and introductions of "Oh, I didn't say that and if I did say
that, I actually meant this." arguments that it is obvious that you have no clue
what you are doing.  Perhaps it might be easier for you to argue in Bahasa
Melayu (sp?) but, since I can't understand that language, I can't discuss
anything with you (not that I can discuss anything with you in English, it
seems.)   Oh well.

>What a clouded brain?
>   If you misinterpreted my examples and arguments, you can easily 
>misinterpret "my attempt at conforming to my ideas". Why don't you study my
>style. Is it a preaching or confrontational style?
>   Who could persuade any fool to belive me if I "confront" them. Well
>I'm targeting to more intelligent people to give me more sound feedback, or
>witty attacks.

Really?  I await with bated breath.  Oh, before I forget, I'd like to bestow
upon you the "Almost like Zam" medal in honour of your heroic efforts to be
like that notable (heh).  Fortunately, you haven't descended to his level.
Yet.

--
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Kok-Yong Tan, 			  	| My words are my own: 
Fixed Income Analytics Group, 	  	| My bosses know naught.
Merrill Lynch,			  	| Wherever they're sown,
World Financial Center, North Tower, 	| Just I should be sought.
New York, NY 10281-1315.	  	|		- K. Y. Tan, 5 Feb 1992
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