From: schuck@fraser.sfu.ca (Bruce Jonathan Schuck)
Subject: Re: PBS Special
Reply-To: Bruce_Schuck@sfu.ca
Organization: Simon Fraser University, Burnaby, B.C., Canada
Date: Thu, 17 Dec 1992 17:19:36 GMT

grant_jo@ripple.enet.dec.com (Joel Grant) writes:
>In article <schuck.723834930@sfu.ca> Bruce Schuck writes:

>>The testing in Dealey Plaza confirmed that the sound impulses were in
>>fact the echo pattern of a rifle fired in Dealey Plaza.

>	I am still anxiously awaiting your explanation for the
>	disruption caused by a microphone button stuck on `transmit'
>	and the channel 1 dispatcher's placement of the microphone
>	on the  Stemmons.

WHo really cares? It could be crosstalk, it could be a badly made
copy, but what is really important is that recording establishes the
number of shots fired in Dealey Plaza that day.

>>The Chimes were heard in Dealey Plaza during a 1964 memorial
>>to the assassination. [High Treason]

>	Interesting Mr. Groden didn't happen to bring this up
>	when he was dealing with the HSCA investigators.  But
>	are you suggesting that the chimes magically appeared
>	for one day in 1964?  Because there were no buildings
>	within shouting distance of Dealy, as of 1963, from which
>	chimes could be heard. 

Shouting distance? Who cares about shouting distance. The chimes were
heard in 1964, and that fact is recorded in High Treason.

>>All the bullet had to do was hit the street first to expend the
>>energy. Of course, for it to the hit the street near Tague, it
>>couldn't have been fired from the TSBD because it would have had to
>>miss JFK by 20 feet to the right and 30 feet high. On the other hand,
>>if fired from the Dal-Tex, it only had to miss JFK by a couple of feet
>>high, since a line draw from the Dal-Tex to the curb intersects the
>>Limo path several times.

>	So your thesis is that a rifle bullet hit at point A then
>	bounced over to point B (curb near Tague) and that this
>	rifle bullet was fired from somewhere in the Dal Tex
>	building.  Is that the latest version?  

Latest? Tague was hit by a bullet other than the ones that hit JFK or
Connally, and they were hit by 3 bullets. The Tague bullet makes
*four*, one more than the WC admitted, and exactly matching the number
of definite shots heard on the dictabelt!

>	Naturally, the Dal Tex gunman, like all the other gunmen
>	other than Oswald simply wasn't noticed by anyone standing
>	nearby.  

If you look at the uncropped Altgens photo, on the right side you can
see the Dal-Tex. Under and slightly to the left of the fire escape is 
an *oepn* window, a perfect position for a sniper.


>>>	Both Connally and Kennedy were stuck at the same time, at
>>>	approximately frame 222-225.

>>225? Kennedy was already reacting to being shot before 210, before
>>going behind the Stemmons sign, according to Zapruder.
>>At 225 JFK's hands are already near his throat, and it's damned
>>unlikely he could have reacted instantaneously!

>	Zapruder Zaschmuder.  I have a copy of his testimony.
>	You have to strain real hard to interpret his words
>	as intending to establish reactions timed by frames.

I'm sure you as a WC apologist do have a hard time. I don't.

>	If you want to claim an early strike there are better
>	sources to cite than Zapruder, like the HSCA photo
>	panel who said that JFK was reacting to "an extreme
>	external stimulus" by 207.  

Which is about when Zapruder saw JFK react.

>       Of course they said the
>	same thing about Connally at 162 and again at 223.
>	

If you look at Z 183 of the Z film, all the SS agents and motorcycle
cops are looking forward. Nopne of them have looked backwards. Look at
the Altgens photo, taken *after* the first shot, and the SS and at
least one of the motorcycle cops are looking backwards. *No* shots
were fired before 183, all were fired after. 189 is an excellent
choice for the first shot, and choosing 162 [like you and Todd] is the
choice of desperate WC apolgists.

>>>	As for the shot at 190 or so hitting Kennedy, that is 
>>>	unlikely in the extreme.  The first shot to hit him 
>>>	fractured his vertebrae in the area of C6 or T1.  This
>>>	causes an almost immediate neurological reaction.  

>>If his vertebrae was fractured it's much more likely he would have
>>gone limp immediately, just as paralysis victims go. Remember the
>>football player who broke his neck a week or so ago? He hardly started
>>reaching around with his arms over his head. He dropped, and stayed down.

>	I am not a neurosurgeon 

You most definitely are not.

  
>>>	None of the bullets fired into cotton by anyone have anything
>>>	but a perfectly round base.  They are not at all flattened,
>>>	they are not bent on the long axis, they haven't lost any
>>>	weight and they do not extrude as much lead as Lattimer's
>>>	bullets.  

>>Who cares about Lattimer. He was using a vise not a gun. The bullets
>>fired into cotton were bent -- more than CE399. And lead was visibly
>>extruded from the base, more than CE399. Check out the picture
>>yourself.

>	Whether the force comes from the use of a vise or a strike
>	of a bone the point is that it takes alot of it to flatten
>	one of those bullets at all.  Test bullets fired into water
>	or cotton waste material do not flatten.  

You haven't looked up the picture yet have you? The test bullet fired
into cotton had flattened *more* than CE399.

>       The test bullets
>	have a slight extrusion of lead.  

More than CE399.  

>>>       Most of CE399's extruding lead wound up in
>>>	Governor Connally.  But a portion of the extrusion is still
>>>	visible, and microscopic examination reveals that the
>>>	scooped-out base of CE399 is scooped out in a direction
>>>	running towards the remaining small extrusion of lead.

>>Scooped out. That was Frazier of the FBI. He scooped it out for
>>spectrographic and NAA testing!

>	Frazier took a little chunk from the nose and dug a little
>	hole in the base for testing.  The scooping and scraping
>	of the lead at the base terminates at the point where the
>	extruding lead still remains.  

The extruded lead boundary is the extruded lead boundary. There is no
evidence *any* is broken off of CE399, and its weight, once the
missing amounts Frazier took off, is within the normal range of 6.5mm
Carcano rounds.

>       And speaking of the NAA testing,
>	it demonstrated that the fragments removed from Connally's
>	wrist came from CE399, though not to the exclusion of every
>	possible bullet on planet earth.  But within the statistical
>	framework of WCC 6.5 cartridges the match is perfect.

If you had read Guinn's analysis, you would know that the fragments
did not match, and that even Guinn admitted that he couldn't tell one
end of a 6.5mm Carcano from another because lead is non-homogenous. He
also pointed out that the JFK head fragments didn't match the count or
weight of the ones tested by the FBI, so I wouldn't count on the
Connally wrist fragments being the original ones either!

>>Since the bullet had *no* blood or human flesh on it, it certainly
>>never went through a human being.

>	Now you keep making the claim that it had no blood or flesh
>	on it.  It is up to you to do more than assert this is true.

The FBI agent in charge of testing [I think it was Frazier] said it
was clean.

>	Would a bullet doing what this one did inevitably have
>	blood and/or flesh on it?  

Yes. Especially if it went in backwards as you so ludicrously claim.

  

>>The fragments on the Limo floor include a round section of the end of
>>a bullet that had the core spearated from the jacket.

>	Not only was Connally's wrist not even remotely in line
>	to be wounded by a fragment of the head shot, 

Yes it was. By the time of the head shot, Connally was laying on his
back in Nellies lap, and his wrist *was* in line.

>       but the
>	fragments on the limo floor came from a different bullet
>	than the fragments in the wrist.  

WHo really knows. The JFK head fragments are *definitely* different
from the original ones according to Guinn, so nobody can count on the
other fragments either.

>>Of course none of those pieces had blood or human flesh or brain
>>tissue on them, so they could be from the bullet that hit the bar
>>above the windshield, leaving no pieces from the Kennedy head shot
>>which were from a soft nosed bullet.

>	I suppose one can speculate anything one wants.  But when
>	people tire of this and want to know what actually happened
>	they turn to forensic scientists.  

Ok...so name me the forensic scientists who worked on the case 
*at the time*.