HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: jsl7@cunixa.cc.columbia.edu (J. Shawn Landres)
Newsgroups: soc.college
Subject: Re: Repost: Gift for friend joining fraternity?
Date: 3 Jan 93 22:44:52 GMT
Reply-To: jsl7@cunixa.cc.columbia.edu (J. Shawn Landres)
Organization: Columbia University

In article <1993Jan3.140751.2349@ucbeh.san.uc.edu> turnerbl@ucbeh.san.uc.edu writes:
>In article <1993Jan1.054437.5810@news.columbia.edu>, jsl7@cunixa.cc.columbia.edu (J. Shawn Landres) writes:
>> In article <92365.115027ICSCH@ASUACAD.BITNET> <ICSCH@ASUACAD.BITNET> writes:
>>>A humorous gift for a guy joining a fraternity might be a shirt which equates
>>>beer with college.  
>> 
>> It's ideas like this and advisers like you who hinder any attempt at making 
>> the fraternity experience a meaningful one. Go read your charter, read your
>> creed, and check out your risk-reduction policy.
>> 
>> /Shawn Landres
>> Ours is a multi-racial group of men of all backgrounds, dedicated to honor 
>> above all, and to living up to the pre-drunken-stupor and pre-rape-happy 
>> ideals of fraternal life. We are founded against hazing, as well.
>
>Hey Shawn, 
>
>Lighten up pal!  How easy the answers must seem, as an undergraduate.  The orig
>poster asked for a gift idea, and Scott responded with a suggestion.  You too
>have the option to respond with a suggestion too.  All of us who are chapter
>advisors face similar problems, and zelots like you only complicate them.

Point well taken. It's just that I think Chapter Advisors need to be a little
more on the ball than undergrads, and Scott should probably have thought about
the impact of his suggestion -- especially with zealots like Ted looking for 
any excuse to bash frat life.

>As far as your creedo, I suggest you check back into your history as to exactly
>how long your fraternity has been multi ethnic.

I should have been more specific. Our *chapter* is multi-ethnic; I make no
claims for the national organization or its history.

>B. Turner
>University of Cincinnati
>Chapter Advisor

/S
Newsgroups: soc.college
From: jsl7@cunixa.cc.columbia.edu (J. Shawn Landres)
Subject: Re: Repost: Gift for friend joining fraternity?
Reply-To: jsl7@cunixa.cc.columbia.edu (J. Shawn Landres)
Organization: Columbia University
Date: Fri, 1 Jan 1993 05:44:37 GMT

In article <92365.115027ICSCH@ASUACAD.BITNET> <ICSCH@ASUACAD.BITNET> writes:
>A humorous gift for a guy joining a fraternity might be a shirt which equates
>beer with college.  
>
>--Scott Hume, Chapter Advisor, Sigma Pi at ASU

It's ideas like this and advisers like you who hinder any attempt at making 
the fraternity experience a meaningful one. Go read your charter, read your
creed, and check out your risk-reduction policy.

/Shawn Landres
Marshal, Chaplain-elect, Sigma Nu Fraternity, Delta Gamma Chapter
Columbia University

Ours is a multi-racial group of men of all backgrounds, dedicated to honor 
above all, and to living up to the pre-drunken-stupor and pre-rape-happy 
ideals of fraternal life. We are founded against hazing, as well.

Newsgroups: soc.college,alt.usage.english
From: nadeau@bnr.ca (Rheal Nadeau)
Subject: Re: Frosh (was Re: Sexist language (was...
Organization: Bell-Northern Research Ltd., Ottawa
Date: Tue, 22 Dec 92 00:38:54 GMT

In article <BzMsCF.E6q@constellation.ecn.uoknor.edu> mmmirash@midway.ecn.uoknor.edu (Mandar M. Mirashi) writes:
>In article <1992Dec21.043452.6843@cdf.toronto.edu> g9rwaigh@cdf.toronto.edu (Rosemary Waigh) writes:
>>In article <BzL601.LLr@constellation.ecn.uoknor.edu> mmmirash@midway.ecn.uoknor.edu (Mandar M. Mirashi) writes:
>>>>
>>>Aha! The "unambiguous" writer caught red-handed! 
>>Um, I don't think I have ever claimed that natural language was unambiguous;
>>I think you have me confused with someone else.
>>
>
>But you *did* claim that you try to write unambiguously whenever possible.
>Don't deny that. And here I have very clearly shown that you don't
>practise what you preach.

I don't remember Rosemary saying that - maybe you've got her confused with
me?  I assure you, we don't look very much alike (right, Ro?).

Anyway, note the word "try".  Check your English English dictionary,
Mandar - "try" isn't the same as "do".  (Except, of course, for Yoda.)

       The Rhealist - nadeau@bnr.ca - Speaking only for myself
Xref: sparky soc.college:5832 alt.usage.english:9820
Organization: The American University - University Computing Center
Date: Mon, 21 Dec 1992 10:46:29 EST
From: <HERSCH@auvm.american.edu>
Newsgroups: soc.college,alt.usage.english
Subject: Re: Sexist language

In article <BzLCtr.3MI@constellation.ecn.uoknor.edu>,
mmmirash@banshee.ecn.uoknor.edu (Mandar M. Mirashi) says:
>
>Awwww....I was just changing the sentences to make them sound more
>correct, grammatically. The essence of what he wished to convey
>remains the same. Next you'll be asking me to *sing* it because
>mere words may not convey it as effectively as the song itself.  ;)
>Hey! I am a big fan of the Beatles and of John Lennon, too!
>

Would you refer to the well-known Bob Dylan song "It Isn't Me,
Babe"? Or the Jagger-Richard(s) lyric "I can't get any satisfaction"?
When you quote (and you did put this stuff in quotation marks,
followed by the attribution to Lennon), you have a duty to do
so exactly. I should think this would be an even stronger imperative
when you're quoting someone of whom you profess yourself to be
a big "fan".

H.

Herschel Browne
"The" American University
Newsgroups: soc.college,alt.usage.english
From: hypes@boi.hp.com (Gary Hypes)
Subject: Re: Sexist language
Date: Thu, 31 Dec 1992 15:58:20 GMT
Organization: Hewlett-Packard / Boise, Idaho
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1.4 PL6]

Heidi de Wet (heidi@ucthpx.uct.ac.za) wrote:
: 
: Moreover, we should try not only to remove existing prejudices, but
: to prevent them forming in children's minds.  Language shapes thought;
: if children are taught that the word for all people is 'man', and the 
: word for a male person is 'man', they cannot avoid the inference that 
: males are the dominant/important part of the human race.  We simply
: can't afford to ignore language as a tool for avoiding prejudice.
: 

I wonder whether that argument is defensible.  If children are taught
that "tire" means to grow weary, and that the word for the round things
underneath a car is "tire", I don't think children rush to assumptions
about the nature of material fatigue in rubber products.

To my thinking, language is a representation of what society at large
does, says, and thinks.  Attempts to artifically force linguistic
political correctness in France, for example (with their efforts to
eradicate the corrupting influences of English) have been wholesale
failures.

The language will change when society changes; not the other way around.


- Gary Hypes -
Xref: sparky soc.college:5870 alt.usage.english:10001
From: djohns@elm.circa.ufl.edu (David A. Johns)
Newsgroups: soc.college,alt.usage.english
Subject: Re: Sexist language
Date: 25 Dec 92 02:10:45 GMT
Followup-To: soc.college
Organization: University of Florida, Gainesville

In article <BzJpL1.ArF@constellation.ecn.uoknor.edu> mmmirash@banshee.ecn.uoknor.edu (Mandar M. Mirashi) writes:

# Take a spot poll, Tom. Find how many native speakers find the
# following exchange of conversation natural :
#
#          "Is Joan there?"
#          "No, they went to the market."

Take a spot poll, Mandar.  Find (find?) See how many native speakers
find the following exchange of conversation natural:

        "See that man over there?"
        "Yes, I asked her to join us."

David Johns

Newsgroups: soc.college,alt.usage.english
From: roger@crux.Princeton.EDU (Roger Lustig)
Subject: Re: Shaking people up with "she"? (was Re: Sexist language)
Originator: news@nimaster
Reply-To: roger@astro.princeton.edu (Roger Lustig)
Organization: Princeton University
Date: Tue, 29 Dec 1992 04:59:39 GMT

In article <1992Dec20.125836.10920@vax.oxford.ac.uk> wilcox@vax.oxford.ac.uk writes:
>In article <1992Dec15.182137.18930@news.eng.convex.com>, tchrist@convex.COM (Tom Christiansen) writes:

>> We do.  Damnit.  It's "they".   Yup, I'm going to waste netbandwidth
>> again and rererepost the best write-up I have on the topic.

>[Various quotes omitted which have almost convinced me]

>But are we still allowed to profess ourselves *unhappy* with the use of the
>singular they?

Sure, but it's about as meaningful as expressions of unhappiness with
the Treaty of Westphalia or the Krebs cycle or the Central Limit Theorem.

Roger

Newsgroups: soc.college,alt.usage.english
From: Tom Christiansen <tchrist@convex.COM>
Subject: Re: Sexist language
Originator: tchrist@pixel.convex.com
Date: Wed, 23 Dec 1992 06:38:15 GMT
Reply-To: tchrist@convex.COM (Tom Christiansen)
Organization: Convex Computer Corporation, Colorado Springs, CO
X-Disclaimer: This message was written by a user at CONVEX Computer
              Corp. The opinions expressed are those of the user and
              not necessarily those of CONVEX.

:>>    "Ask your SO whether they're interested."
:       This sentence is improper,  when I ask a friend if their Significant
:       Other is comming,  I know what sex his girlfriend is! :-)

Apparently you hang out with a rather conservative crowd.  Don't assume
you know the gender of someone's SO.

The sentence is not improper -- you spelling of 'coming', however, is.

--tom
-- 
    Tom Christiansen      tchrist@convex.com      convex!tchrist

We're going to have the best-educated American people in the world.
		--Vice President Dan Quayle
Xref: sparky soc.college:5855 alt.usage.english:9890 alt.feminism:6418
From: andy@ccwf.cc.utexas.edu (Andrew Hackard)
Newsgroups: soc.college,alt.usage.english,alt.feminism
Subject: Re: Herstory
Date: 22 Dec 92 20:27:36 GMT
Followup-To: soc.college
Organization: The University of Texas at Austin, Austin TX

thf2@midway.uchicago.edu (Ted) writes:
>No one ever said the word 
>"history" was sexist or wants to abolish it.  "Herstory" is a play on words 
>and refers to a distinctly different approach to historical interpretation.

I happen to object to the word "herstory" on purely esthetic grounds.  It
ranks right up with PC abominations such as "looksism" and "womyn"
(plural womien?).  It has nothing to do at all with my views on the place 
of women (or wimmin, or womyn) in our society.

>If you're so dead-set on attacking feminism, there's enough out there to
>address without making up these straw men (or women as the case may be :) 

I'm not in the least trying to attack feminism.  I'd object equally
strenuously to someone referring to Andrew as a "himmicaine".

--
--Andrew Hackard                                 If I spoke for UT, this post
  andy@ccwf.cc.utexas.edu                        would make even less sense.

                    "Hallelujah, Noel, be it Heaven or Hell,
                        The Christmas we get we deserve."
Newsgroups: soc.college,alt.usage.english
From: gtoal@pizzabox.demon.co.uk (Graham Toal)
Subject: Re: Sexist language
Organization: Cuddlehogs Anonymous
Date: Fri, 1 Jan 1993 00:48:53 GMT

In article <C04sD8.L3w@boi.hp.com> hypes@boi.hp.com (Gary Hypes) writes:
:I wonder whether that argument is defensible.  If children are taught
:that "tire" means to grow weary, and that the word for the round things
:underneath a car is "tire", I don't think children rush to assumptions

Not here, they're not, Mr Hipes :-)

G
Xref: sparky soc.college:5857 alt.usage.english:9896
From: iad@cogsci.ed.ac.uk (Ivan A Derzhanski)
Newsgroups: soc.college,alt.usage.english
Subject: Re: They (was Re: Shaking people up with "she"? (was Re: Sexist language))
Date: 22 Dec 92 13:47:49 GMT
Organization: Centre for Cognitive Science, Edinburgh, UK

In article <BzMuyJ.FyD@constellation.ecn.uoknor.edu> mmmirash@midway.ecn.uoknor.edu (Mandar M. Mirashi) writes:>
>In article <BzMIqJ.3r9@ccu.umanitoba.ca> ens@ccu.umanitoba.ca () writes:
>>Few people object to
>>"Someone's been eating my porridge, and they've eaten it all up."
>
>And few would object to :
>"Someone's been eating my porridge, and he or she has eaten it all up."
>
>Both usages are acceptable, though the latter is grammatically correct.

Incidentally, the latter sounds more artificial to me, because it
involves the artifact "he or she".  I don't use the former, but I
think it is by far the more natural construction.

And as far as grammaticality goes, apparent violation of number
agreement is a pretty common thing, particularly in British English,
where singular collective nouns frequently trigger plural agreement.

-- 
 `D'ye mind tellin me whit the two o ye are gaun oan aboot?' (The Glasgow
Ivan A Derzhanski  (iad@cogsci.ed.ac.uk; iad@chaos.cs.brandeis.edu)    Gospel)
* Centre for Cognitive Science,  2 Buccleuch Place,  Edinburgh EH8 9LW,  UK
* Cowan House, Pollock Halls, 18 Holyrood Park Road, Edinburgh EH16 5BD, UK
Newsgroups: soc.college
From: st891425@pip.cc.brandeis.edu (Andrew Weiskopf)
Subject: Re: Repost: Gift for friend joining fraternity?
Reply-To: st891425@pip.cc.brandeis.edu
Organization: Brandeis University
Date: Thu, 31 Dec 1992 19:13:18 GMT

In article <1992Dec30.201324.28328@midway.uchicago.edu>, thf2@ellis.uchicago.edu (Ted Frank) writes:
>In article <92365.115027ICSCH@ASUACAD.BITNET> <ICSCH@ASUACAD.BITNET> writes:
>>A humorous gift for a guy joining a fraternity might be a shirt which equates
>>beer with college.  A more serious gift might be a drinking glass or mug with
>>the fraternity's crest or letters on it.  
>>
>>--Scott Hume, Chapter Advisor, Sigma Pi at ASU


>
>Y'know, if I had made the same suggestion, I'd be getting a lot of nasty
>e-mail for implying that all fraternities do is drink.
>-- 
>ted frank

Bravo, Ted!

-Andy Weiskopf				Brandeis: Home of the Whopper.
 ST891425@pip.cc.brandeis.edu
From: thf2@ellis.uchicago.edu (Ted Frank)
Newsgroups: soc.college
Subject: Re: Repost: Gift for friend joining fraternity?
Date: 30 Dec 92 20:13:24 GMT
Reply-To: thf2@midway.uchicago.edu
Organization: University of Chicago

In article <92365.115027ICSCH@ASUACAD.BITNET> <ICSCH@ASUACAD.BITNET> writes:
>A humorous gift for a guy joining a fraternity might be a shirt which equates
>beer with college.  A more serious gift might be a drinking glass or mug with
>the fraternity's crest or letters on it.  
>
>--Scott Hume, Chapter Advisor, Sigma Pi at ASU

Y'know, if I had made the same suggestion, I'd be getting a lot of nasty
e-mail for implying that all fraternities do is drink.
-- 
ted frank                     | thf2@ellis.uchicago.edu 
standard disclaimers          | void where prohibited
the university of chicago law school, chicago, illinois 60637
Organization: Arizona State University
Date: Wednesday, 30 Dec 1992 11:50:27 MST
From: <ICSCH@ASUACAD.BITNET>
Newsgroups: soc.college
Subject: Re: Repost: Gift for friend joining fraternity?

A humorous gift for a guy joining a fraternity might be a shirt which equates
beer with college.  A more serious gift might be a drinking glass or mug with
the fraternity's crest or letters on it.  For a woman joining a sorority, a
humorous gift may or may not be appropriate, but a gift such as a small balloon
bouquet or a "letter shirt" may be appreciated.

--Scott Hume, Chapter Advisor, Sigma Pi at ASU
Xref: sparky soc.college:5831 alt.usage.english:9819
From: cholette@JSP.UMontreal.CA (Cholette Martin)
Newsgroups: soc.college,alt.usage.english
Subject: Re: Sexist language
Date: 21 Dec 92 15:40:31 GMT
Organization: Universite de Montreal

In article <BzL3MK.JuF@constellation.ecn.uoknor.edu> mmmirash@midway.ecn.uoknor.edu (Mandar M. Mirashi) writes:
>In article <1992Dec20.165029.15348@news.eng.convex.com> tchrist@convex.COM (Tom Christiansen) writes:
>>From the keyboard of mmmirash@banshee.ecn.uoknor.edu (Mandar M. Mirashi):
>>:Take a spot poll, Tom. Find how many native speakers find the following
>>:exchange of conversation natural :
>>:
>>:         "Is Joan there?"
>>:         "No, they went to the market."
>>
>>Wrong.  By stating a femenine name you disambiguate it.
>>
>>You go spot check these:
>>
>>    "If anyone shows up, tell them to go away."
       By saying anyone you imply that there may be more than 1,  in other 
       words you implying pluralism.

>>    "Ask your SO whether they're interested."
       This sentence is improper,  when I ask a friend if their Significant
       Other is comming,  I know what sex his girlfriend is! :-)

>>    "Each employee must sign their own form."
       Again more than one person is expected to sign the form.  By saying
       'each' you imply more than 1 employee.

>
>Well, how about :
>
>
>      "Ask your doctor if they are interested."
        Doctor is singular, 'they' denotes plural.

Michael Bertrand,
 __________    _      _   ________         _      _    _      _
|             |     /    |                |     /      \     /  
    |         |    /     |   _____        |    /        \   /   
    |         |          |                |              >      
    |         |    \     |   _____        |    \        /   \   
    |         |     \    |                |     \      /     \ _ 
  
cholette@jsp.umontreal.ca
>
Xref: sparky soc.college:5887 alt.usage.english:10168
From: lukoff@byron.u.washington.edu (Fred Lukoff)
Newsgroups: soc.college,alt.usage.english
Subject: Re: Sexist language
Date: 31 Dec 1992 19:28:52 GMT
Organization: University of Washington, Seattle
NNTP-Posting-Host: byron.u.washington.edu

In article <C04sD8.L3w@boi.hp.com> hypes@boi.hp.com (Gary Hypes) writes:
>Heidi de Wet (heidi@ucthpx.uct.ac.za) wrote:
>: 
>: Moreover, we should try not only to remove existing prejudices, but
>: to prevent them forming in children's minds.  Language shapes thought;
>: if children are taught that the word for all people is 'man', and the 
>: word for a male person is 'man', they cannot avoid the inference that 
>: males are the dominant/important part of the human race.  We simply
>: can't afford to ignore language as a tool for avoiding prejudice.
>: 
>
>I wonder whether that argument is defensible.  If children are taught
>that "tire" means to grow weary, and that the word for the round things
>underneath a car is "tire", I don't think children rush to assumptions
>about the nature of material fatigue in rubber products.
>
>To my thinking, language is a representation of what society at large
>does, says, and thinks.  Attempts to artifically force linguistic
>political correctness in France, for example (with their efforts to
>eradicate the corrupting influences of English) have been wholesale
>failures.
>
>The language will change when society changes; not the other way around.
>
>
>- Gary Hypes -

That is probably the best way of putting it I have seen on this group so
far, Gary's last sentence. You can't legislate respect. You can still have
the biggest male chauvinists running around with the most perfect speech.

Ben Lukoff
Newsgroups: soc.college
From: GEN5021@Husky1.StMarys.Ca (JOHN SAKALAUSKAS)
Subject: Repost: Gift for friend joining fraternity?
Organization: St. Mary's University, Halifax, N.S., Canada
Date: Sat, 26 Dec 1992 01:30:29 GMT
X-News-Reader: VMS NEWS 1.13.SMU

(This is a repost of a previous message since some of my posts
seem to get lost).
Does anyone know if there is any sort of traditional gift one gives
to a friend when they join a fraternity or a sorority? Even in humor?

She seems quite excited and I'm sure that it would make her day even
brighter.
Thanks in advance.
-john
(Please respond via E-mail if possible)
Newsgroups: soc.college,alt.usage.english
From: hayesstw@risc1.unisa.ac.za (Steve Hayes)
Subject: Re: Sexist language
Date: Mon, 21 Dec 1992 10:56:33 GMT
Organization: University of South Africa

In article <1992Dec16.103211.10829@vax.oxford.ac.uk> wilcox@vax.oxford.ac.uk writes:

>Why not use the non-sexist term which has been current in the UK for a while:
>Freshers. It has that semi-derogatory connotation, it can easily be said with a
>sneer and its compounds (Freshers' Fair, Freshers' Bop et al) roll easily off
>the tongue.

Non-sexist?

When I was a first-year student, many years ago, there were freshers and 
freshettes.

Steve Hayes, Department of Missiology & Editorial Department
Univ. of South Africa, P.O. Box 392, Pretoria, 0001 South Africa
Internet: hayesstw@risc1.unisa.ac.za
          steve.hayes@f20.n7101.z5.fidonet.org
Newsgroups: soc.college,alt.usage.english
From: mmmirash@midway.ecn.uoknor.edu (Mandar M. Mirashi)
Subject: Re: Frosh (was Re: Sexist language (was...
Date: Mon, 21 Dec 1992 22:40:55 GMT
Organization: Engineering Computer Network, University of Oklahoma, Norman, OK, USA

In article <1992Dec21.043452.6843@cdf.toronto.edu> g9rwaigh@cdf.toronto.edu (Rosemary Waigh) writes:
>In article <BzL601.LLr@constellation.ecn.uoknor.edu> mmmirash@midway.ecn.uoknor.edu (Mandar M. Mirashi) writes:
>>In article <1992Dec20.233457.25282@cdf.toronto.edu> g9rwaigh@cdf.toronto.edu (Rosemary Waigh) writes:
>>>Because the meaning of animals is not unambiguous; to some people it means
>>>only non-human animals.  This leads to all sorts of tiresome qualifications
>>>when trying to write, say, animal rights literature.
>>>
>>Aha! The "unambiguous" writer caught red-handed! 
>Um, I don't think I have ever claimed that natural language was unambiguous;
>I think you have me confused with someone else.
>

But you *did* claim that you try to write unambiguously whenever possible.
Don't deny that. And here I have very clearly shown that you don't
practise what you preach.

>>There *is* a phrase
>>which is unambiguous in this context - "living beings". So, from now
>>on, we should use "living beings" when we mean "animals".
>No, living beings includes plants, bacteria, etc.
>>
>>>However, in the case of human beings, we are fortunate to have many
>>>unambiguous terms to include people of both genders, making the sexist use
>>>of "man" especially pointless and undesirable.
>>
>>So you *do* agree with me. The *use* of man is sexist, not the word
>>itself. AND, the people who *use*/interpret it incorrectly are sexist.
>
>That's what this whole thread has been about!  I have been arguing against
>the *sexist* (i.e. including women) use of "man", not the use of "man" to
>designate male human beings.  I thought you were arguing in favour of the
>sexist use of "man" to include women.
>
Huh? "Man" isn't sexist when it is used to include women. 

>>Yes, the *sexist* use of "man" is pointless and undesirable. But the
>>"non-sexist" use of man isn't.
>
>What is the sexist use of "man" then, since in an earlier post you said
>it could be used to include women?  If that isn't the sexist use, what is?
>

The sexist use of "man" occurs when it isn't clear from the context 
whether it includes women as well. Further, this ambiguity is exploited
by others to demean women.

                                                         Mandar.

-- 
"Imagine there are no countries. It isn't hard to do. Nothing to kill or die 
 for, and no religion too. Imagine all the people living life in peace.
 You may say that I'm a dreamer, but I'm not the only one. I hope that some
 day you'll join us, and the world will be as one." - John Lennon.
From: Harel Barzilai <harelb@igc.apc.org>
Newsgroups: soc.college
Date: 02 Jan 93 15:41 PST
Subject: College e-mail or info. servers
Nf-ID: #N:cdp:1471300019:000:297
Nf-From: cdp.UUCP!harelb    Jan  2 15:41:00 1993


    It would be greatly appreciated if someone in this forum
would either post, or email "cb147@cleveland.freenet.edu" with
the internet address of any of the following colleges information
servers:  M.I.T., Harvard, Yale, Princeton, The University of
Rochester, or Dartmouth College.

Thank you.

Xref: sparky soc.college:5833 alt.usage.english:9821