HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: howard@iscsvax.uni.edu
Newsgroups: rec.food.veg
Subject: Re: What is TVP mince?
Date: 6 Jan 93 17:31:05 -0600
Organization: University of Northern Iowa

In article <93006.160339LAVERTU@MAINE.MAINE.EDU>, Cheryl Lynn Lavertu <LAVERTU@MAINE.MAINE.EDU> writes:
> I have some vegetarian recipes which call for TVP mince.
> Dumb question from a recent convert from meat-eating: what
> is TVP mince (aka TVP granules)?  Are they talking about the
> packages of hamburger-substitute mix such as Harvest Burger
> or Nature Burger or something else?  Please, no flames from
> those who feel that eating vegetable matter which is made to
> look like meat is *almost* as immoral as eating real meat.  I'm
> new to this and may eventually see the light, but haven't yet :)
> I'll change by degrees, I think--last year I gave up red meat
> and this December I just gave up poultry.
> 
> 
> 

TVP Mince is Textured Vegetable Protein in small pieces (looks like
Grape Nuts). Textured Vegetable Protein is made by spinning the oil
out of soybeans, then drying it. The mince comes in plain, and also
Heartline Meatless Meats makes a spiced version ("ground beef style"). 
For any recipe that calls for mince, you can take a veggie burger, 
such as ADM Harvest Burger, or Morningstar Farms Griller, defrost, 
and crumble up. 

I don't see anything wrong at all with eating soybeans- even when they
are shaped into patties and spices are added. Vegetarians deserve some 
"fast" food too, after all. 

-Mary Howard



Newsgroups: rec.food.veg
From: mad4@ellis.uchicago.edu (Bill Maddex)
Subject: Re: 2 queries (vegan katsup/vegan and kosher food)
Reply-To: mad4@midway.uchicago.edu
Organization: Pranksters for Peace
Date: Mon, 11 Jan 1993 02:00:05 GMT

In article <1993Jan10.221913.24539@netcom.com> artemis@netcom.com (Michelle Dick) writes:

>Yes, vegan food is generally kosher.  Vegan restaurants that advertise
>themselves as Kosher have arranged for the premises to be supervised
>and certified by a rabbinic authority.  For a vegan restaurant, this
>supervision is much easier than for a milk or meat restaurant and I
>assume the supervision fee is therefore lower.
>
>The only real difference between a vegan uncertified restaurant and a
>vegan kosher restaurant is that the kosher premises and equipment will
>have been "kashered" prior to use (i.e. pots, pans, ovens, counters,
>etc thoroughly cleaned with boiling water or some other acceptable
>method).  If the restaurant owners are Jewish, then some legal
>arrangements are made at passover and depending on who's certifying,
>also on shabbat. There are a few other intricate points of kashrut
>that also need to be followed.  But, nothing that you, as a non-kosher
>diner, need to be worried about.
>
>So no, it's not really a gimmick.
>
>--
>Michelle Dick
>artemis@netcom.com


Michelle's right here, but it is worth pointing out that 1)almost all
processed food requires supervision, and 2)there is a whole category of
vegan ingredients which may not be kosher, viz wine and vinegar.

The laws about this are complicated, and IMHO nonsensical, but they are
the laws.  All wine and all vinegar must ve certified kosher, even cider,
rice and umeboshi vinegars.  I regard these laws as a rabbinic conspiracy
to make my life more difficult, but there ain't much I can do about them.

Billy Magic

Newsgroups: rec.food.veg
From: mdriscol@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (Mollie M Driscol)
Subject: Re: Gay cats? *Great*! (was "vegetarian cats2...", I think)
Organization: The Ohio State University
Date: Tue, 5 Jan 1993 15:11:33 GMT

In article <1993Jan05.144716.11676@eng.umd.edu> georgec@eng.umd.edu (George B.
Clark) writes:
>In article <C0Ds83.EEJ@world.std.com> rik@world.std.com (Rik Ahlberg) writes:
[lines deleted]
>>
>>AND IT PISSES ME OFF TO SEE INTELIGENT (?) PEOPLE MAKE STUPID
>>ANTI-GAY COMMENTS ON THE NET. Maybe the cat's an inpotents, _happy_
>>wimp? I dunno, but I don't think that was the author's intent.
>Rik, you idiot. Maybe the damn cat would like a taste of meat instead of
>vegetables. Obviously, that was the author's intent, especially since
>the topic is vegetarian cats.

Maybe so, but eating meat has nothing to do with the cat's
sexuality.  

>>PLEASE KEEP YOUR BIGOTRY TO YOURSELF.
>Please restrict your promotion of the gay lifestyle to bit.listserv.gaynet.
>It has no place in rec.food.veg.

Rik's post was not a "promotion" of anything, except respect for
other human beings, which I think has a place everywhere.  If you
can't handle gay people, maybe you should stay at home because
we are everywhere, whether you like it or not.

mollie
mdriscol@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu
Newsgroups: rec.food.veg
From: proberts@informix.com (Paul Roberts)
Newsgroups: rec.food.veg
Subject: Re: GM & animal testing
Date: 5 Jan 93 20:21:46 GMT
Organization: Informix Software, Inc.

In article <1993Jan5.195937.21988@informix.com> proberts@informix.com (Paul Roberts) writes:
>In article <EfGPryO00iV002_2sO@andrew.cmu.edu> rs57+@andrew.cmu.edu (Ruthann Schmidt) writes:
>>I don't have the name of a strictly animal rights newsgroup, so I've
>>posted this question here. Does anyone know the person/dept/address to
>>where I may send a letter to GM concerning the company's use of live
>>animals in testing? You can either send email to me or post to the group.
>>
>
>John F Smith, Jr
>President, General Motors
>3044 W. Grand Blvd.
>GM Building
>Detriot  MI  48202

... at any rate, this was the address listed by PETA last summer, I trust
it is still good. They are running a huge campaign against GM over this
issue. I believe there are a number of things they are suggesting that
people do in addition to writing to GM: if you are interested then send
me mail and i will put you in touch with them.

BTW, there's a newsgroup talk.politics.animals devoted to this sort of
thing, though it is largely a slanging-match over there.
From: thelma@csd4.csd.uwm.edu (Thelma Lubkin)
Newsgroups: rec.food.veg
Subject: Re: REQUEST: Vegetarian "Kishka"
Date: 7 Jan 1993 18:11:30 GMT
Organization: University of Wisconsin - Milwaukee
NNTP-Posting-Host: 129.89.7.4

dbader@eng.umd.edu (David Bader) writes:
: 
: I was grocery shopping yesterday, when I had this urge for Kishka (which I
: haven't had since I was really little).  I called up my Jewish Mother (TM), and
: she explained that I probably wouldn't like it anymore, since it is made from
: bread crumbs, paprika, and beef fat....  So, if you know what Kishka is, and have
: an idea for a vegetarian (vegan!) recipe.. please email me!
: 



:  pppppppps,

           And it's stuffed into the skin of a chicken neck.
           Perhaps you can stuff whatever recipe you come up with into
           the tofu skin that is used in some dim sum.
                            Thelma

:   david
: 
: 
Newsgroups: rec.food.veg
From: georgec@eng.umd.edu (George B. Clark)
Subject:  Vitamin D - supplements & fortified foods OK.
Date: Thu, 07 Jan 93 23:58:06 GMT
Organization: University of Maryland

If you are a female, senior citizen, you will be interested in a report
that taking vitamin D and calcium reduces your chances of breaking a
hip, an injury associated with osteoporosis.

The data shows that older women do not meet their needs for vitamin D
from dietary sources and exposure to sunlight. They should increase
their intake of vitamin D fortified foods, fish, and take 400 IUs of
vitamin D daily. A daily supplement of 250 mg calcium may also be
beneficial.

The data also shows the vast majority of people do not eat enough fish
or vitamin D fortified foods to meet their vitamin D needs, and if their
main vitamin D source is exposure to UVB rays of the sun, they will be
vitamin D deficient in the winter. This is especially true of older
people whose skin is less efficient at making vitamin D.

New England Journal of Medicine, Dec. 3, 1992
From: jaj@hal.gnu.ai.mit.edu (Jill A. Johnson)
Newsgroups: rec.food.veg
Subject: Awright.
Date: 7 Jan 93 18:38:28 GMT
Organization: MIT Artificial Intelligence Lab
NNTP-Posting-Host: hal.gnu.ai.mit.edu

Well really, there's nothing to say that diet can't change one's sexuality.
Providing of course one's sexuality is a result of not getting enough or 
getting too much of a certain nutrient.  However,  I guess I personally don't 
like that view that there's something "wrong" with people who are homosexual.
Maybe for some it's biological and maybe for others it's not.  In any case
I don't really think it matters.  There's plenty of room in the world for 
everyone.

Certainly there are people in the world whom everyone dislikes and being humans
the majority of us even pick out groups that we decide we dislike.  For
instance, I have this dislike for people who drive pick-up trucks.  I have 
managed to lump those who drive pick-ups into this one stereotypical group of
people who drive like jerks.  This is of course the wrong attitude for me to 
have because of course there are some people who drive pick ups and who drive 
very well and are nice people.  Ultimately though I have better things to 
worry about....I'd never walk up to someone who's driving a pick up and try to 
pick a fight with one.  People can drive pick ups if they want.  I don't have 
to like it, but it doesn't really matter because I need to worry about my own
life and mind my own business. 

Incidentally, homosexual people don't bother me in the least.  Every one of the
people I've met who have been gay have been very nice to me.  I have some very
good gay friends and I wouldn't trade them for heterosexual ones if someone 
paid me ten million dollars.  

I guess my point is that not everyone has to like the way homosexual people 
live their lives, but if you choose to turn your back on someone just because
of their sexual orientation you could be missing out on a real good friendship.
It's my very very humble opinion that it's possible for everyone in the world
to get along no matter whareligions or sexual preferences or kind of vehicle
they drive or whether or not they eat meat.  

Anyhow everyone has something that's different about them.  It's just how 
things work.  I'm very sorry to drag this convo on, but these are things that
I needed to point out.  

Jill
Newsgroups: rec.food.veg
From: sannuti@frobenius.math.washington.edu (Arun Meda Sannuti)
Newsgroups: rec.food.veg
Subject: Bagels
Date: 11 Jan 1993 22:42:07 GMT
Organization: University of Washington, Mathematics, Seattle
NNTP-Posting-Host: frobenius.math.washington.edu

	Are bagels in general vegan?  I was wondering, because whenever
I see ingredients, they do see to be vegan, (except for egg bagels) but
I don't know if they are in general.

arun

Newsgroups: rec.food.veg
From: "matthew james" <matthew.james@canrem.com>
Subject: great vegan recipes
Reply-To: "matthew james" <matthew.james@canrem.com>
Organization: Canada Remote Systems
Distribution: rec
Date: 9 Jan 93 21:59:41 EST

I have few great recipes for vegans out there if any one would like
to have them fax me some information on vegetarianism or any other
interesting articles you have.  In return I will fax the recipes to
you... By the way 1 tbsp of Blackstrap Molases has over 100mg of
calcium and over 3mg of iron... My computer fax will be on all day
Monday and Tuesday so please feel free to fax me some information or
just your fax number.
                                Matthew James
                                 519-679-4971
--
Canada Remote Systems  - Toronto, Ontario
World's Largest PCBOARD System - 416-629-7000/629-7044
Newsgroups: rec.food.veg
From: la1002@albnyvms.bitnet (Clover M.)
Subject: Assistance in Self Control For New Vegan Needed!
Reply-To: la1002@albnyvms.bitnet
Organization: University of NY at Albany
Date: Tue, 5 Jan 93 06:40:40 GMT

Hi, all!
 
I need to ask a favor.  I need to carry a 3" by 5" index card in my
wallet with me for Aversion Therapy against meat and dairy and eggs.
Each thing (meat, refined sugar, etc.) should have 1-2 lines about 
what the product does to me, to the animal, etc.  The more graphic
and revolting, the better.  Tho whole point is to make me lose my
appetite for the food which I am craving.  I figure that if I get to 
the point where I avoid buying it because I don't want to see the
card in my wallet when I open it to take out the money, I'll be in
good shape! :-)
 
If this is offensive to anyone, I can get these suggested statements
by email, and I can collate them and send the list to any interested
parties.

Thanks!

Clover
la1002@albnyvms.bitnet
This is my very first sig.file
From: eric@prodigal.psych.rochester.edu (Eric Hansen)
Newsgroups: rec.food.veg
Subject: This is an FAQ!! FTP site for R.F.V.??
Summary: Is there an FTP site for articles pertaining to rec.food.veg??
Date: 8 Jan 93 17:35:59 GMT
Organization: University of Rochester - Rochester, New York

I've read some interesting articles in the past on this newsgroup, and would
like to know if there is any archive site for rec.food.veg.  Any information
about where to get (electronically) vegetarian info would be much
appreciated.

Thanks,

Eric Hansen
eric@prodigal.psych.rochester.edu

--
    * Eric J. Hansen                  |    Center for Clinical Computing   *
    *   eric@binoc.bih.harvard.edu    |   350 Longwood Avenue, Boston, MA  *
From: savino@netlink.cts.com (Gene Savino)
Newsgroups: rec.food.veg
Subject: Re: milk substitutes for Jill and others...
Date: 2 Jan 93 07:03:51 GMT
Organization: NetLink Online Communications, San Diego CA

Christine_Code@mindlink.bc.ca (Christine Code) writes:

> 
> MY FAVOURITE MILK SUBSTITUTES ARE:
> 
> 1) Rice Dream - original lite 1% fat non dairy beverage, made from organic
> brown rice.  Sounds weird, but it's MUCH better than soy milk.  Rather
> pricey, but very good on breakfast cereal.  Even my dairy-addicted friends
> like this stuff.
> 
> 2) Almond flavoured soy milk.
> 


Thanks for the tip about Rice Dream.  I will try it next time as an 
alternative to soy milk.

I seldom eat cereal since I switched to only fresh fruit for breakfast.  
(Yes, I'm "one of those people" who read "Fit For Life" and got hooked on 
the fruit thing.)

Once in a while I'll use soy milk when I snack on Alvarado granola.  
After trying many brands and flavors, I settled on either of two soy milk 
brands (one is Westbrae) that make _PLAIN_ soy milk.  Plain means the 
ingredients read: "Soybeans and Water" and nothing else.  To some, plain 
means un-flavored, but still contains a sweetener and sometimes even 
added oil (yuk).

The plain soy milk is lower in calories and isn't too beanie tasting.  
Although, I am not one to be concerned with finding a substitute that 
tastes _exactly_ like cows milk.  Such an attitude would hamper my 
progress towards an increasingly healthy way of eating.  i.e., I'm not 
concerned with finding a vegetarian substitute for meat.

Running low one day, I found by accident that plain soy milk tastes just 
fine diluted 50-50 with water.  I gain weight easily and usually watch my 
fat intake, so this was an unexpected benefit.  Not to mention my cost 
was cut in half.  Try it, you'll like it!

BTW, I'm not totally against the sweetened soy milk products.  On 
occasion, I'll buy one of the _small_ boxes as a treat.  To me, it's like 
candy or a snack.  How many people put sweetened cows milk on their 
cereal?  Well, maybe a few, but it's certainly not the rule.

WAIT!!  As I sit here thinking, it WAS the rule for me.  Growing up I 
always put 2 or 3 teaspoons of white sugar on my cereal after the milk.  
I answered my own question.  It's our national addiction to sugar and 
fats that causes the soy milk manufacturers to add these "extras" to most 
of their products.

OK, I'll quit my rambling and pontificating.

The short version is:

I'll try Rice Dream and I encourage you folks to try plain soy milk.

Gene Savino
San Diego, CA


--                    
INTERNET:  savino@netlink.cts.com (Gene Savino)
UUCP:   ...!ryptyde!netlink!savino
NetLink Online Communications * Public Access in San Diego, CA (619) 453-1115
Newsgroups: rec.food.veg
From: altar@beaufort.sfu.ca (Ted Wayn Altar)
Subject: Re: Vitamin B Supplement?
Organization: Simon Fraser University, Burnaby, B.C., Canada
Date: Wed, 6 Jan 1993 18:25:01 GMT

Cary E. Jenson writes:

>I've been an ovo-lacto (sp?) vegetarian for several years and am in
>excellent health. However, I recently read an excellent book about
>the impact of nutrition on cognition.

Any general malaise will of course affect one's attention and
motivation.  But I take it that you are referring to the literature
on nutrition and "intelligence".  This literature is quite
controversial and is rife with methodological problems, the
least of which is the problem of mental measurement being
confounded with decreased attention/motivation that naturally
is concomitant with physiological ill-health.  The literature
is also plague with problems of interpolating from extreme
cases of malnutrition to that of moderate or mild malnutrition.
With respect to mild, and even moderate malnutrition over the
short run (and even long run), the evidence is equivocal and
weak that permanent cognitive damage occurs.   Only in cases
of extreme and chronic malnutrition (requiring hospitalization) 
is there evidence of permanent loss of some intellectual capacity.
Other body organs will first deteriorate or be sacrificed before 
the body allows the brain to physically deteriorate.


>The author was very balanced
>and even handed about vegetarianism but did make the point that V.s
>should take a B supplement.  I'm curious to know what you all think.
>How many take supplements? What kind? Is there any reason to pay for
>expensive name brands like Solar or Schiff when health food store
>brands are much less expensive?

As a lacto-ovovegetarian, you really don't need to worry about 
B12 deficiency anymore than does an omnivore.  B12 deficiency
disease is actually quite rare and 95% of the cases are not
due to dietary deficiency but to physiological absorption 
problems.  It is not even certain that the incidence of
true B12 deficiency is greater among *adult* vegans as it
is among the normal population, simply because of the rarity
of the disease being only due to dietary deficiencies.

If you want to take a b12 supplement, there is nothing wrong
with that, but if you take megadoses (and all supplements of
B12 are "megadoses" since balance studies show that all you
need as a healthy adult is .1 millionths of a gram) the
absorption rate of course will decrease.  You only need to
take it on occasion in small amounts.  Make sure that
the B12 is made from a bacterial culture and not spirulina
or nori (algaes), which consist of analogues of B12 that
interfere with true B12 absorption. 

					ted
.

Newsgroups: rec.food.veg
From: abulsari@abo.fi (Abhay Bulsari VT)
Subject: Re: supplements
Organization: Abo Akademi University
Date: Fri, 8 Jan 1993 11:30:43 GMT

In article <Ze01wB1w164w@fatcity.cts.com> liz@fatcity.cts.com (elizabeth hostetter) writes:
>a cat can only be vegetarian with the aid of supplements, though...

Did you miss Ted's two postings on Little Tyke, a lion ?

Abhay
From: rovel@eng.umd.edu (Amy L. Rovelstad)
Newsgroups: rec.food.veg
Subject: Re: Gay cats? *Great*! (was "vegetarian cats2...", I think)
Date: 5 Jan 93 20:21:56 GMT
Organization: College of Engineering, Maryversity of Uniland, College Park
Originator: rovel@bagend.eng.umd.edu


In article <1993Jan05.144716.11676@eng.umd.edu> georgec@eng.umd.edu (George B. Clark) writes:
>In article <C0Ds83.EEJ@world.std.com> rik@world.std.com (Rik Ahlberg) writes:
>>AND IT PISSES ME OFF TO SEE INTELIGENT (?) PEOPLE MAKE STUPID
>>ANTI-GAY COMMENTS ON THE NET. Maybe the cat's an inpotents, _happy_
>>wimp? I dunno, but I don't think that was the author's intent.
>
>Rik, you idiot. Maybe the damn cat would like a taste of meat instead of
>vegetables. Obviously, that was the author's intent, especially since
>the topic is vegetarian cats. 
>

>>PLEASE KEEP YOUR BIGOTRY TO YOURSELF.
>
>Please restrict your promotion of the gay lifestyle to bit.listserv.gaynet.
>It has no place in rec.food.veg.

Point of clarification:  I believe the author of the first moronic post 
was also George B. Clark.  I ignored it hoping that since it was *so* 
stupid that it was meant satirically.  Alas, no, it was apparently just 
stupid.

It seems that Mr. Clark provides a counter-argument to those who claim that
vegetarians are more enlightened than omnivores.  I really should know
better than to read his posts....

Amy
From: jaj@hal.gnu.ai.mit.edu (Jill A. Johnson)
Newsgroups: rec.food.veg
Subject: pesticides and eating
Date: 4 Jan 93 17:39:32 GMT
Organization: MIT Artificial Intelligence Lab
NNTP-Posting-Host: hal.gnu.ai.mit.edu

Well, my opinion on pesticides is this :
	I figure either I'll starve to death or just eat the lettuce and such 
that gets sold in the grocery store.  I doubt that water will doa good job of
gettign the pesticides off.  I guess it's a matter of whether you want to 
starve now or die of cancer 20-30 years from now.  There's alos the possibility
taht someone will eventually start regulating these things.  I think it's 
really impossible to stay away from nasty chemicals.  Just my bad attitude I 
guess. 

Jill
From: jaj@hal.gnu.ai.mit.edu (Jill A. Johnson)
Newsgroups: rec.food.veg
Subject: Gelatin
Date: 11 Jan 1993 22:23:25 GMT
Organization: MIT Artificial Intelligence Lab
Distribution: world
NNTP-Posting-Host: hal.gnu.ai.mit.edu


I think someone asked this before but I have to ask again since I can't 
remember the answer.  Are there any animal products in Jello  gelatin? I 
have a few boxes in the house and I'm craving something sweet.

I also think I'm doing quite well wiht my new eating habits.  The other day
we were at a taco place and I couuldn't resist ordering the nachos with the
melted cheese smothered all over them.  Anyhow, I got them and tasted them
and they didn't taste nearly as good as I used to think they did.   In fact,
I ended up giving them to my husband who happily wolfed them down.  

I can get my husband to eat my vegan cookies that I make and he loves the very
low fat chocolate cake, but I can't get him to even taste things like veggie
burgers or rice and broccoli.  He just ate 3 hot dogs before he went to work.
I took a little bite of one and it just made me feel sick.  Does anyone have 
any suggestions on things I can make that a truly non-veggie hubby will eat?

Does anyone have a recipe for vegan tacos?  I'd prefer something without 
refried beans.  Would falafal or Seitan work? I hear Seitan is an excellent
substitue for meat.

Also, My husband and I were driving down the street  the other day and we saw
a liscense plate that said "NO MEAT" on it.  I thought it was really cute. :) 

Jill
From: hagop@crowe.seas.ucla.edu (Hagop D. Janoyan)
Newsgroups: rec.food.veg
Subject: Re: The Christian Argument for Vegetarianism
Date: 5 Jan 93 03:05:26 GMT
Organization: SEASnet, University of California, Los Angeles

I haven't been following up on this thread, so I hope I'm not repeating
anything.

I was raised as a Christian by my family, but once I started thinking for
myself, I started leading a secular life.  From every indication I have
received from Christianity, they do place an important distinction between
the life of a human and the life of a non-human animal.  They do not consier
them equal, and they do not seem to mind when a human kills other animals.

I don't simply mean killing an animal for food.  How about the sacrifice
of an animal?  They kill animals in the name of God, which I find very
absurd.  

Also, are the views by St. Thomas Aquinas representative of Christian views?
I've read some of the philosphical writings of St. Thomas, and he makes some
very strong arguments about the fallacies in vegetarianism.  Of course, he
has taken a Christian point of view, as far as I could tell, so I suppose
you would consider his arguments "strong" only if you make certain assumptions
about God, etc.

Please, I'm not attacking Christianity in any way.  I just don't see how
anyone can be both a Christian and a vegtarian.  It's very possible that
there is a lot in Christianity that substantiates vegetarianism that I
don't know about, so I would like to hear anything you have to say.

 
-- 
Hagop Janoyan
hagop@seas.ucla.edu
Newsgroups: rec.food.veg