HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: tdunn@ecst.csuchico.edu (Tim Dunn)
Newsgroups: news.groups
Subject: Re: CFSV: Call for "Straw" Votes - Rec.games.frp.campaign
Date: 17 Nov 92 17:17:22 GMT
Organization: California State University, Chico
NNTP-Posting-Host: hairball.ecst.csuchico.edu

Bruce Norman writes:
>I wasn't trying to pull a "fast one" with my Straw Vote.  When it says 
>discussion of campaign will continue if 100 votes were received, I mean
>only if 100 positive votes are received.  

And the NO votes go to data heaven?  This is still the same straw vote
proposal you had before then.  Tricky, tricky, tricky.....

Sir, you have shown yourself to be able to produce words and contort
them in means that they at first glance never took on.  In that this
has happened again and again, I feel no recourse but to attempt to feebly
anticipate possible linguistic juijitsu and warn all others.  

In my addled mind, it *was* possible that you would have the audacity
to 'pull a "fast one"' and post to news.groups that 'there was sufficient
response for me to continue my CFV.'  You did so before when I asked how
long you had been reading r.g.f (so *I* thought I asked) and you replied
that you had been on the net for five years.

Millerl called you on your 'promise', one that I thought was fairly 
iron-clad as well, and you slipped it's clutches as well.  While I do
greatly applaud you for such with and skill, I do not want to fall prey
to it, nor do I want others to do so as well.

Hence, I approach any and all articles by your pen (keyboard?) with a
great degree of caution.  And I encourage all reading to do so as well.

-- 
We may not return the affection of those who like us, but we always
respect their good judgement.
Newsgroups: news.groups
From: dnewcomb@whale.st.usm.edu (Donald R. Newcomb)
Subject: Re: CFV: soc.religion.islam.ahmadiyya moderated
Summary: We all make mistakes.
Organization: University of Southern Mississippi
Date: Tue, 17 Nov 1992 02:44:05 GMT

In article <1992Nov16.132815.1@uwovax.uwo.ca> 3040_3744@uwovax.uwo.ca writes:
>I think it was a typo in the text otherwise Ahmadies always pay full respect to
>all relegions including Judaism, Christianity, Hinduism followers of
>other relegions.  Ahmadies are rather broad minded people who respect even
>those people who are against the very existance of this sect. So please ignore
>that typo in it.

Having discussed with several people, what I saw as a slight to the world's
major religions by the author of this group's charter, I now see this as
an nothing more than an unfortunate juxtaposition of typographic and/or
English grammar errors. I regret having come to a hasty judgement in this
regard. I am sending email to change my previous NO vote to an ABSTENTION.
If the proposed charter  were to be amended to prevent this misunderstanding
from reoccurring I would then vote YES.

-- 

Donald R. Newcomb                * The one who dies with the most toys
dnewcomb@whale.st.usm.edu        * has accomplished nothing beyond
newcomb@usmcp6.bitnet            * enslaving himself to his possessions.
From: dave@jato.jpl.nasa.gov (Dave Hayes)
Newsgroups: news.groups
Subject: Re: Intentional ignorance of newsgroup creation? (was Re: *BAD*...)
Date: 20 Nov 92 20:19:34 GMT
Reply-To: dave@jato.jpl.nasa.gov
Organization: Jet Propulsion Lab - Pasadena, CA

stanley@skyking.OCE.ORST.EDU (John Stanley) writes:
>You have already made one up. Why stop now? Don't Jimmy and Rosalyn
>support you?

Who?

>Either back up your ridiculous claims or expect others to stop
>listening to you. 

That's impossible. But I'll attempt it IFF you can prove that you
are indeed named John Stanley. 
-- 
Dave Hayes - Network & Communications Engineering - JPL / NASA - Pasadena CA
dave@elxr.jpl.nasa.gov       dave@jato.jpl.nasa.gov         ...usc!elroy!dxh

Most novices picture themselves as masters - and are content with the
picture. This is why there are so few masters.
Newsgroups: news.groups
From: rorschak@daimi.aau.dk (Jesper Lauridsen)
Subject: Re: Voting process
Organization: Xanth Watch
Date: Mon, 16 Nov 92 17:00:30 GMT

gvh@metrosoft.com (Gordon Van Huizen) writes:

>In article <1992Nov14.200722.21557@daimi.aau.dk> rorschak@daimi.aau.dk  
>(Jesper Lauridsen) writes:
>> gvh@metrosoft.com (Gordon Van Huizen) writes:
>> 
>> Anyway, you don't have to read the RFD to vote.

>You have to read the RFD if you are to paricipate in the discussion prior  
>to the vote.

Absolutly correct. But we are discussing a lack of votes here.
Try again.
-- 
Jesper Lauridsen        |  I survived the rec.arts.sf-lovers split
rorschak@daimi.aau.dk   | 
Lines: 13
Date: Mon, 23 Nov 92 10:09:51 MST
From: gritton@alaska.et.byu.edu (Jamie Gritton)
Organization: Brigham Young University, Provo UT USA
Newsgroups: news.groups,news.admin.policy
Subject: Re: RFD: Should rec.music.makers.synth stand as a group name?
Reply-To: gritton@byu.edu
	<1992Nov15.115845.10766@jato.jpl.nasa.gov>
	<1992Nov16.195105.11206@bagend.uucp>
	<1992Nov17.231314.16493@jato.jpl.nasa.gov>
	<EMCGUIRE.92Nov20115249@fuller.intellection.com>

emcguire@intellection.com (Ed McGuire) writes:

> The proposal on the table would create r.m.synth if /either/ one-third
> of the voters approved, /or/ at most 99 more disapprove than approve.

> In other words, the proposal on the table creates a new group if a
> minority approve the action.

   That's not my interpretation. The way I see it, a new group
proposal is a proposal for change, no matter how the request is
worded. It still takes a majority to make the change.
--
James Gritton - gritton@byu.edu - I disclaim
Newsgroups: news.groups
From: quirk@pioneer.unm.edu (Gym Z. Quirk)
Subject: Re: Rebuttle to Millerl's request I leave (nothing to do with .campaign)
Date: Mon, 16 Nov 92 00:08:08 GMT
Organization: Nit-Pickers for a Better Tomorow Afternoon

In article <BxqzGy.FDr@undergrad.math.waterloo.edu> cbnorman@cayley.uwaterloo.ca () writes:
>I wish you people would make up your minds.  Half of you say "there is no
>interested in talking about that stuff" and the others say "we don't need
>a new group, we're already talking about it here here and here".

That's odd...I have no recollection of anybody claiming that 'There is
no[one] interested in talking about that stuff.'  All of the argument
I've read has been along the lines of:

"Why this group is redundant."  (Almost 100% congruity with the stated
purpose of r.g.f.archive - Discussion goes to .misc, .dnd, and
.advocacy.)

"Why this proposal is mal-formed."  (Moderated discussion groups are
generally a *bad* idea.  The primary exception to this rule that comes
to mind is sci.military.)

"Why don't you spend some time and actually *read* r.g.f.* before you
decide to mess with it?" ;-) ;-)
-- 
Capt. Gym Z. Quirk  (Known to some as Taki Kogoma)  quirk@pioneer.unm.edu
 I'll get a life when someone demonstrates that it would be superior to
                          what I have now...
Newsgroups: news.groups
From: cwatters@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (Coyt D Watters)
Subject: Re: RFD rec.games.netrpg
Organization: The Ohio State University
Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1992 13:57:54 GMT

In article <1992Nov19.092841.24597@beaver.cs.washington.edu> tsang@cs.washington.edu (Donald Tsang) writes:
>In article <1992Nov19.021628.18155@alf.uib.no> magnus@ii.uib.no writes:
>>Proposed newsgroup name: rec.games.netrpg
>>Status: unmoderated
>>Charter: rec.games.netrpg is for discussion of design, implementation
>>and use of the net.rpg game.
>>
>>Rationale: The net.rpg game is a role-playing game being created by a
>>number of people on rec.games.design. However, some people have
>>complained that we are filling the newsgroup with messages which are
>>not of interest to all readers.
>>
>>The net.rpg posts constitute a pretty large volume [40+ messages/day]
>
>How many people participate, and how many non-participants are
>interested in the interim versions?  If the answer to either of those
>questions is "very few", perhaps the entire thing should be moved
>to a mailing list to save bandwidth.
>
>If it were made into a mailing list, major interim versions could be
>periodically posted to appropriate groups (rec.games.design, and
>rec.games.frp.archives) for playtest and comment.  New users could
>be culled that way, too.
>

[Please pardon the excessive bandwidth of completely quoting the
 previous article, it probably won't happen again. B^)]

If the decision is made to NOT move the netrpg into a mailing list (and if
you do, let me know so I can add it to the FAQ on rec.games.frp.announce),
then I suggest that (just maybe) the group could be moved under the current
rec.games.frp.* hierarchy, perhaps as:

rec.games.frp.design

with a nice, specific charter (which will probably be ignored anyhow B^(  ).
Specifing that the group is for the design and implementation of the netrpg,
but roleplaying discussion and rules interpretation should take place in 
rec.games.frp.misc and rec.games.frp.advocacy.

After all, the r.g.frp.* hierarchy's main topic is the discussion of paper
and pencil role-playing games.  It would seem logical that a net.project 
designing such a game would be appropriate for the hierarchy.

-Coyt
Actually, though, you could suggest that everyone use NETRPG: in the subject,
and suggest KILLFILES (ducking flames) B^), and continue to use 
rec.games.design group.
From: wilken@endive.eecs.ucdavis.edu (Kent Wilken)
Newsgroups: news.groups
Subject: Re: Is there a general fault-tolerance news group?
Keywords: fault tolerance
Date: 18 Nov 92 00:57:11 GMT
Organization: U.C. Davis - Department of Electrical Engineering and Computer Science

In article <1992Nov13.204445.10875@eecs.nwu.edu> ian@nasser.eecs.nwu.edu (Ian Sutherland) writes:
>In article <lg5phmINNsu9@utkcs2.cs.utk.edu> shuford@cs.utk.edu (Richard Shuford) writes:
>>The best name proposed was 'comp.arch.fault-tolerant', and its charter
>>would be broad enough to encompass systems that are configured for
>>"high availability" (the latest buzzterm) as well as systems that are
>>designed from the ground up for "hard" fault-tolerance.
>
>Any particular reason for the "arch"?  That suggests fault tolerance
>implemented at the architecture level, and much work that I'm familiar
>with works at a higher level (I am NOT referring to design diversity or
>N-version programming).

I would agree with the second comment and would suggest that the group
be called 'comp.fault-tolerant'.  

Although my research happens to include work in fault-tolerant 
computer architecture, fault tolerance has traditionally been applied
at the circuit level, and there are many interesting topics in
multiprocessors, software, networks, etc., above the architecture
level, as is suggested above.
Xref: sparky news.groups:22218 soc.culture.indian:37341 soc.culture.pakistan:16815 soc.culture.bangladesh:6019
From: ahmed-shakil@cs.yale.edu (Shakil Waiz Ahmed)
Newsgroups: news.groups,soc.culture.indian,soc.culture.pakistan,soc.culture.bangladesh
Subject: Re: CFV: soc.religion.islam.ahmadiyya moderated
Date: 16 Nov 1992 21:18:19 -0500
Organization: Yale University Computer Science Dept., New Haven, CT 06520-2158
Distribution: world
NNTP-Posting-Host: curie.systemsy.cs.yale.edu


In article <Bxu60p.KA6@ccu.umanitoba.ca>, ijaz@ccu.umanitoba.ca (Tahir Ijaz) writes:

> I call myself a Muslim, the same way you call yourself Shakil.
> If I call you something else, you will still be Shakil, and if you
> call me a non Muslim, I will in fact remain a Muslim, unless you are
> God.

But God has spoken to us through the Qur'an, and he has told us what
constitutes a Muslim.  If you disagree with God, it is your problem,
but don't expect all other Muslims to regard you as one of them...

> Dr Tahir Ijaz, M.D.
  ^^             ^^^^

Isn't this redundant? ;)

-- Shakil
Xref: sparky news.groups:22139 news.admin.policy:421
From: jodar@girtab.usc.edu (Nicholas Jodar)
Newsgroups: news.groups,news.admin.policy
Subject: The Whole S.R.I.A CFV Mess....
Date: 16 Nov 1992 23:04:04 -0800
Organization: University of Southern California, Los Angeles, CA
NNTP-Posting-Host: girtab.usc.edu
Summary: More intellect and less emotion, please....
Keywords: SRIA-CFV, Fiasco

Assalamu Alaikum....

Auzu Billahi Min Ash-Shaitan Nirajeem.  Bismillah...

Regarding the SRIA Call for Votes, let us all take a deep breath
and start thinking instead of reacting.  After all, thousands of
people in the world are required to hit 'k' everytime our thread
comes up.  Emotional displays don't really have a place within
administrative newsgroups.

In article <1992Nov16.164147.25810@bernina.ethz.ch>, Brother Nadeem 
Malik (nadeem@igpho) wrote:

>... you are allowed anything against the Devil!

Brother, please note that those who believe so are not Believers.

Now, to the matter at hand...

>so that an "official" vote-taker should be defined precisely from the
>very beginning when a RFD is made.

My understanding (which seems to have no factual basis) was that
the person who submitted the RFD was the same one who submitted
the CFV.  I figured a neutral person was required to oversee the
whole thing.  If this is not the case, then I ask, 'Why not?'  

I ask because, if my memory is correct, (and it may not be), the 
person counting the votes for the SRIA-CFV has established a clear 
opinion regarding the formation of the new group through postings 
on the net.  This brings up the question of how was he selected 
for the job.

Somehow, I get the feeling that the matters being raised here are
sitting in a FAQ-file, somewhere....

-AQ
From: maurer@nova.stanford.edu (Michael Maurer)
Newsgroups: news.groups
Subject: Re: RFD: comp.soft-sys.matlab
Date: 20 Nov 92 02:20:31 GMT
Organization: STAR Lab, Stanford University, California USA
Distribution: world
NNTP-Posting-Host: magellan.stanford.edu

In <*4i1Hn30-a@atlantis.psu.edu> mek@guinan.psu.edu (Mark E. Kotanchek) writes:

>                       The question I have is whether comp.soft-sys.matlab  
>is the right place for the newsgroup to reside since as an engineer I've  
>never "channel-surfed" into comp.soft-sys and it never occurred to me that  
>I should explore that domain. In fact, judging by the paucity of postings  
>to the current categories (andrew, khoros, and nextstep) it would appear  
>that comp.soft-sys is a well kept secret--especially considering the  
>volume and vehemence of postings in the comp.sys.next groups!!

>Therefore, I advocate that the new group be located as 

>                      sci.math.matlab

>rather than comp.soft-sys.matlab.

Although I agree that the comp.soft-sys.* hierarchy is not as well known
as sci.math.* (probably due to its youth), I don't think that should be
a reason to place the Matlab group where it doesn't belong.  The
sci.math groups
	sci.math.num-analysis
	sci.math.research
	sci.math.stat
	sci.math.symbolic
are generally broader in scope than discussion of a single software
package (although sci.math.symbolic is often swamped with Mathematica
vs. Maple questions and flames).

In contrast, the comp.soft-sys groups
	comp.soft-sys.andrew
	comp.soft-sys.khoros
	comp.soft-sys.nextstep
each specifically deal with a software system that is too large in scope
to fit into any of the existing newsgroup hierarchies, just like Matlab.

I'm not particularly thrilled with the comp.soft-sys.matlab placement
either, but I think it's the best place in the existing newsgroups.
Perhaps in the ideal world we would have a sci.comp.* hierarchy, dealing
with application of computers to science...

Michael
--
______________________________________________________________________
Michael Maurer          maurer@nova.stanford.edu        (415) 723-1024
Newsgroups: news.groups,alt.usenet.culture
From: peter@ferranti.com (peter da silva)
Subject: Re: Is news.groups cliquish? No way!
Organization: Xenix Support, FICC
Date: Wed, 18 Nov 1992 15:28:16 GMT

In article <1992Nov18.005905.17765@jato.jpl.nasa.gov> dave@jato.jpl.nasa.gov writes:
> HA!! Yeah RIGHT. Define "clear style of expression"

The ability to write an article and have it understood by your readers.

> and "rational opinions".

Ones that agree with mine, of course!
-- 
Peter da Silva / 77487-5012 USA / +1 713 274 5180
true(<<VV$@\\$'&O 9$O%'$LT$&$"V6"$&$<4$?'&$ #I&&?$=$<<@)24 24 scale 3 21 moveto
{dup 36 eq{pop not}{dup 7 and 4 sub exch 56 and 8 div 4 sub 2 index{rlineto}{
rmoveto}ifelse}ifelse}forall stroke pop showpage % Har du kramat din varg idag?

Note: insert smileys where appropriate.
Newsgroups: news.groups
From: strom@Watson.Ibm.Com (Rob Strom)
Subject: Re: Give up, Dave, you've lost!
Date: Sun, 15 Nov 92 22:31:26 GMT
Organization: IBM Research

In article <7859@lib.tmc.edu>, jmaynard@oac.hsc.uth.tmc.edu (Jay Maynard) writes:

|> 
|> Acknowledge that the rename is legitimate, and I'll help make any fixes that
|> may be necessary to the Guidelines. I will not do so before that is
|> acknowledged.

I acknowledge that the rename rec.music.synth to rec.music.makers.synth is legitimate.

I have proposed changes to the Guidelines to avoid a recurrence of
what I think were legitimate problems with this vote.

In case these proposals were lost in the flamage, I restate them:

1. Avoid bundling multiple unrelated votes onto a single ballot.  My preference
   is that the only bundling which should be allowed is either:
   (a) different ways of splitting a single newsgroup
   (b) different ways of renaming a single newsgroup
   (c) uniform renaming of an entire hierarchy -- e.g. x.y.* to x.* or x.y.z.*

2. The ballot should name all affected newsgroups in the subject line.
   Assuming (1) is enforced as above, the subject line should not be overlong.

3. If (1) is not enforced as above, then post separate announcements
   with Subject lines explicitly naming the affected groups to the affected groups.

-- 
Rob Strom, strom@watson.ibm.com, (914) 784-7641
IBM Research, 30 Saw Mill River Road, P.O. Box 704, Yorktown Heights, NY  10598
Newsgroups: news.groups
From: chip@tct.com (Chip Salzenberg)
Subject: Re: Getting information
Date: Mon, 16 Nov 1992 21:59:59 GMT
Organization: TC Telemanagement, Clearwater, FL

According to gvh@metrosoft.com (Gordon Van Huizen):
>As long as there is an attitude that experienced news admins are the only  
>ones qualified to express opinions about the voting process, and said news  
>admins are the "authority" in this context, voting will be skewed towards  
>news admins and away from everyone else.

Well, of course admins are the authority.  We decide what happens.
What ever gave you a contrary impression?
-- 
Chip Salzenberg at Teltronics/TCT  <chip@tct.com>, <73717.366@compuserve.com>
                 just another elitist Usenet administrator
Newsgroups: news.groups,alt.flame,talk.bizarre,news.admin.policy,rec.music.synth,rec.music.makers.synth,rec.humor
From: forbes@cbnewsf.cb.att.com (Scott Forbes)
Subject: =6= Epilogue.  Usenet Winter Olympics.
Summary: You did read the Prologue back in part =0=, didn't you?
Keywords: Usenet Winter Olympics coverage -- exclusively on USPN!
Organization: Usenet Sports Programming Network
Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1992 06:00:18 GMT

Gene:
>Failure.  A complete failure, in every respect.  Not only did we
>fail to regain control of the net, but we've unleashed a force
>that could actually make the net easier to use -- which is exactly
>what the newbies want, and what we wanted to avoid.

Peter:
>They're going to make it so easy to create a newsgroup that any
>fool could do it -- and that means we end up with one newsgroup
>per fool.  The net will fragment, the namespace will collapse --
>doesn't anybody understand what a *hierarchy* is anymore, dammit?

Dave:
>The Backbone Cabal is doomed, destroyed.  If the Guidelines become
>easy to use and understand, if the rules are made simple enough
>that a first-time reader of Usenet would know what was going on...
>[shudder] I can't even think of the consequences.  The rabble will
>outnumber us --

Brad:
>The rabble *already* outnumber us.  It's only a matter of time
>before enough of them gain in power, and then it's all over.

Rich Kulawiec:
>There must be a way!  I'll think of something!

Gene:
>It's too late for that, Rich.  Your plan has failed -- and you
>know the penalty for failure.

Rich:
>No, please!  I'll do anything!

Gene:
>Dave, Brad:  Escort Mr. Kulawiec to the Fidonet-to-News gateway.
>I think accessing the network through a 1200-baud bulletin board
>somewhere in, shall we say, Newark? --

Rich:
>NOOOOOOOO!

Gene:
>-- would be a most appropriate "reward" for his services.

Rich:
>You can't do this!  I need the net!  I've got to have all that
>information, flowing freely!  I'll go insane without it!

Gene:
>Oh, it's information you crave, is it?  Well, just to show you a
>small measure of kindness:  Give him a subscription to USA TODAY.

Rich:
>AAAAUUUUGGGGGGHHHHHHHHHHH!

[Rich is dragged kicking and screaming from the conference room.
After a few moments and a muffled "thump", Dave and Brad return.]

Gene:
>Gentlemen, once again we have a vacant seat on the Cabal; our 
>first order of business is finding a new member.  I understand
>this Hayes fellow is available...

[The End?]
From: rorschak@daimi.aau.dk (Jesper Lauridsen)
Subject: Re: CFV? What's a CFV??
Organization: Xanth Watch
Date: Mon, 16 Nov 92 15:37:51 GMT

dave@jato.jpl.nasa.gov (Dave Hayes) writes:

>So there IS a standard of importance that is deemed to be "more important"
>than others...

Of course there is. My latest piece of pure nonsense in alt.fan.warlord is
of less importance than Dave Lawrences list of ongoing votes in 
news.announce.newgroups. Anyone with a different opinion is wrong.
-- 
Jesper Lauridsen        |  I survived the rec.arts.sf-lovers split
rorschak@daimi.aau.dk   | 
Newsgroups: news.groups