HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: xklh@kimbark.uchicago.edu (Krista Lyn Haggert)
Newsgroups: alt.drumcorps
Subject: Re: The Star of Indiana
Date: 18 Aug 92 20:14:13 GMT
Reply-To: xklh@midway.uchicago.edu
Distribution: na
Organization: University of Chicago Computing Organizations

In article <1992Aug18.142538.1@vax1.umkc.edu> cputnam@vax1.umkc.edu writes:

>> I really didn't want to get into this subject but since
>> you asked.  Most corps, big and small, had (have) to work
>> to get started and to get new members and good instructors.
>> Star *stole* the best instructors all around the country
>> by flashing money.  And yes, Star is talented, but they
>> have the best instructors for the wrong reason.
>
>If I were in a corps, I would be very disappointed in the staff if they didn't
>do everything possible to get the best instructors.  Why should Star be hated
>because they have money?  They went out and got the best instructors.  By the
>way, their instructors are not from all over the country, stolen from other
>corps.  Zingalli, of course came from Cadets-but he also wrote for Blue
>Knights, so he wasn't stolen.  In fact, he wrote very little of their drill
>(and the Cadets won without him).  The other instructors came from corps that
>still win and do well-they hurt no one by getting the best available.
> 
>
>I hope that they "steal" away all of the Cavies instructors.  I'd even pay
>money to help them "flash" more in the faces of Cavies instructors and show
>them the light.  Come on over Brubaker!!  BTW, you think the Cavies would just
>curl up and die if Brubaker left?  Doubt it!

I think that it would hurt them a considerable amount.

>Mr. Cook should be inducted in the DCI Hall of Fame!!  Long live Cook Group!!!
> 
I'm sure that DCI will do something for Mr. Cook.
Otherwise they will be without his funds.
>
>Well, I think it's the Cavies fans that are making it into a "sibling rivalry"
>Was it the Star fans that booed at the finals last year?  No, the Cavies fans
>booed Star because they won.  Did the Star fans cheer because the Cavies
>got second in '91 (besides because that meant Star won)?  No, but the Cavies
>fans went wild when when Star was announced in third.  That type of attitude is
>totally uncalled for in DCI.  The Cavies fans need to rethink why they are in
>DCI, not the members of Star.

Do you think that everybody that cheered Saturday
night was a Cavilier fans?
I am not a Cavilier fan.  I just want the corp
that does the best show to win.  NO, I don't
think that the Cavies should have won.  I think
that The Cadets should have won.


>Sorry Krista, but you're full of B*******!!!
>
>IRC nick-BlueDevil
>fo
Nick, did you march BD?  Just curious.

Krista
Newsgroups: alt.drumcorps
From: dawson@vdbsan (Willard Dawson)
Newsgroups: alt.drumcorps
Subject: Re: alt.drumcorps Frequently Asked Questions (FAQ)
Date: 12 Aug 92 14:23:25 GMT
Organization: BellSouth Information Networks, Inc.

dci@cs.washington.edu (Donald Chinn) writes:

>Archive-name: drumcorps-faq
>Frequently Asked Questions (FAQ) for alt.drumcorps (8/11/92)

........

>Spirit of Atlanta, 620 Peachtree St, NE #904, Atlanta, GA 30308
>404-875-8715

My copy of "The Spirit Review," shows different info:

    Spirit of Atlanta Drum & Bugle Corps
    2860 Campbellton Road
    Atlanta, GA  30311
    (404) 344-5616

-- 
Willard Dawson, BellSouth Advanced Networks, 1100 Johnson Ferry Road, Ste. 880
Atlanta, GA  30342, Voice: +1 404 303 2343, UUCP: gatech!vdbsan!dawson
Internet -> X.400:  /G=W/S=DAWSON/O=BSAN/ADMD=BELLSOUTH/C=US/@sprint.com
Percent hack:  dawson%vdbsan@gatech.edu   ::    Standard disclaimer applies.
Newsgroups: alt.drumcorps
From: tmv@blitzen.uucp (26129-vandewater)
Subject: Re: DCI Politics SUCKS!
Organization: Bellcore, Livingston, NJ
Date: Tue, 18 Aug 92 13:49:27 GMT

In article <1992Aug17.142546.3199@ducvax.auburn.edu>, cogwynn@ducvax.auburn.edu writes:
> 
>   have about had my share of DCI politics for one year. I have only one,
> thing to say about Saturday night, BULL SHIT! 
> Where in the hell did Cadets come from? This is my least favorite Cadets show
> ever. 
I thought the Cadets were awesome in finals...many thought they should have
taken the cake.

> I like the Cavaliers and the Blue Devils, 
> but there is no way that Cavaliers beat them. SORRY! 
Cavies were MUCH better than the Blue Devils...Cavies had the better
drumline, FAR superior drill, equal hornline, and in my opinion a much
better guard.

>I took some views from my friend and this is what we came up with for an order 
> without the politics:
> 	1. Star of Indiana
> 	   Blue Devils        a tie - hard to call
- again, after being in Madison I thought BD should have come in 5th behind
  Madison.
> 	3. Cavaliers
> 	4. Madison Scouts
> 	5. Cadets of Bergen County
> 	6. Santa Clara Vanguard
- no way for a 6th place SCV....I was SOOO disappointed in their show - I 
would have put them 9th.  A lackluster drill, a disappointing guard...I
can't believe Royer put this show out for his last season...
> 	7. Crossmen
>         8. Phantom Regiment

Tom
---
From: dowzycki@andromeda.rutgers.edu (Ken Dowzycki)
Newsgroups: alt.drumcorps
Subject: Re: VK Bashing & DC North
Date: 14 Aug 92 19:26:33 GMT
Organization: Rutgers Univ., New Brunswick, N.J.

jerger@d0msu7.fnal.gov writes:
>>Drumline?  Guard?......  Silence, right!

>Wrong. How about GE - you know, that aspect that's worth 40 points?
>Sure, none of the sections is a dominant force in the corps from
>year to year, like, say, that drumline that took high drums in
>'80,'81,'82 from.... gosh, was it the Bridgemen? But so what?  


  '80  27th and BD were robbed
  '81  SCV was robbed
  '82  SCV  and BD were robbed


>alright at night without nightmares of the "debacle." I worry more
>about guys who sound like they will be up in the light standard with
>a high powered rifle when VK takes the field Saturday night. You don't

   Not this year, I couldn't get the right ammo!

>dude. But hey, it's your opinion, and what the hell, you are pretty
>fun to argue with when you get agro.

   Touche!  Catcha later.  Ken.
Newsgroups: alt.drumcorps
From: dci@cs.washington.edu (Donald Chinn)
Subject: Starting Line address/info
Organization: Computer Science & Engineering, U. of Washington, Seattle
Date: Tue, 18 Aug 92 19:29:43 GMT


Starting Line
1830 Toombs Drive
Akron, OH  44306

Subscriptions: $15 per year for six bimonthly issues.
Cover price: $3

This could be an interesting publication.  It is a glossy color
magazine mostly consisting of feature articles.  Their first issue
had lots of interesting stuff, including:

Celebrating 25 Years with Santa Clara
Drum Corps Midwest: A tradition of trust
A rehearsal with Carolina Crown
Summer School?  There's change in the air [an article about
                                           year-round schools]
an article on Prodigy
an article on percussionists
an article on the history and status of judging
a conversation with Marc Sylvester

They plan to have 12 issues in the second year of publication.

-- Donald
From: dawson@vdbsan (Willard Dawson)
Newsgroups: alt.drumcorps
Subject: Re: Scores from Drum Corps North (Aug. 9th, Canton Township, MI)
Date: 14 Aug 92 15:10:44 GMT
Organization: BellSouth Information Networks, Inc.

dowzycki@andromeda.rutgers.edu (Ken Dowzycki) writes:

>not least those two prick drum majors on lounge chairs.   Anyone of
>these "attributes" takes away alot more from the activity than what the
>Blue Devils are doing in this years closer.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Which assumes there's anything left to "take away."  Who put it there, and what
the hell is "it?"  Morals?  The band/drum corps crowd never have had any.
Concern for public opinion?  Only insofar as it affects their ability to raise
money.  The prevailing attitude seems to be "screw off, we'll perform what we
like... if you don't like our show, to hell with you."  Which pretty much sums
up my attitude towards your opinion of VK's show.  I thought it was extremely
entertaining.  As do the great majority of concert goers... or have you missed
out on the crowd reaction?  Perhaps you're so withdrawn into yourself, in your
own anal retentive manner of being, that you've not really taken other people
into account.
-- 
Willard Dawson, BellSouth Advanced Networks, 1100 Johnson Ferry Road, Ste. 880
Atlanta, GA  30342, Voice: +1 404 303 2343, UUCP: gatech!vdbsan!dawson
Internet -> X.400:  /G=W/S=DAWSON/O=BSAN/ADMD=BELLSOUTH/C=US/@sprint.com
Percent hack:  dawson%vdbsan@gatech.edu   ::    Standard disclaimer applies.
From: bfhalls@vela.acs.oakland.edu (HALLS BRADLEY F)
Newsgroups: alt.drumcorps
Subject: Re: DCI Politics (I hate DCI Admin.)
Date: 19 Aug 92 18:09:43 GMT
Organization: Oakland University, Rochester MI.

In article <1992Aug16.203112.1@vax1.umkc.edu> cputnam@vax1.umkc.edu writes:
>
>I HATE THE DCI ADMINISTRATION AND THE JUDGES!!!!!!
>
>ESPECIALLY THE ADMINISTRATION!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
>
>Whew, had to get that off my chest.  Now, I'm not crying because the Devils
>didn't win, even though they should have.  I just thought that the Cavaliers
>show was about as boring as any drum corps show I've seen.  My opinion, and
>this is just my OPINION, is that there was a lot politics in this year's
>Finals.  Let me explain:
>
>First of all, has there (in recent memory) been this much changing of places
>from prelims to finals amongst the top 12.  In particular among the top 8?  I
>have a feeling that the adminiatration told the judges to mix it up a bit. 
>Make it more interesting.  I remember the past few years that NOBODY would
>change places from prelims to Finals.  Especially not the top 8.  Anyone want
>to comment in agreement or disagreement?
>
>IRC nick-BlueDevil  <----They'll win it next year.  DCI Politics say they have
>                         to.  It's them or Phantom.  :)

I hate to dissagree with a fellow Blue Devils fan, but this just wasn't
their year. Granted they had a great horn line, but you need more than
that to win nationals. Their drumline is still recovering from the loss
of the Floats, and their visual was very weak. 

As for the "coverup", wouldn't it make more sense to have Cavies win all
3 nights if their really was a conspiracy? Why give quarterfinals to Star?
The thing that people don't realize is that different judges like different
corps. They are human and have opinions just like you and me. Any one of
about 6 corps could have won this year depending on how the panel for finals
was set up.

-Brad.



-- 
^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^
Brad Halls                                "Still looking for witty quote."
Computer Science Grad Student              -me         
Oakland University
Rochester, Michigan
bfhalls@vela.acs.oakland.edu

^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^
From: cneal@ccwf.cc.utexas.edu (Chris Neal)
Newsgroups: alt.drumcorps
Subject: Div. II/III at NATS
Date: 13 Aug 92 19:58:46 GMT
Reply-To: cneal@ccwf.cc.utexas.edu (Chris Neal)
Organization: The University of Texas at Austin, Austin TX
Originator: cneal@grumpy.cc.utexas.edu

I haven't seen them posted yet, so here are Div. II and III prelims and finals:

Div. III Prelims--top 7 to finals

1. Mandarins		89.5
2. Pioneer		88.9
3. Academie Musicale	84.7
4. Blue Stars		84.2
5. Suncoast Sound	82.0
6. Capitolaires		81.6
7. St. Johns		78.6
8. Americanos		76.7
9. Bandettes 		76.5
10. Knights		73.0
11. Nite Express	72.2
12. Conqeuror II	68.7
13. Phantom Cadets	64.3
14. Royal Columbians	62.8
15. 12th Command	59.4
16. Buccaneers		59.2
17. Madison Jr. Scouts	58.1
18. Ridge Raiders	55.6
19. Raiders/Hudson Co.  54.7
20. Spectrum		53.2
21. Emerald Knights	53.1
22. Edmonton Strutters	50.2
23. Rapid City Express	50.0
24. Colt Cadets		48.6
25. Guardsmen Cadets	48.1
26. Dutch Boy Cadets	47.1
27. Delta Brigade	43.9
28. Blue Saints		43.0
29. Racine Explorer	34.7

Div. II Prelims--top 5 to finals

1. Northern Aurora	91.2
2. Carolina Crown	90.9
3. Southwind		90.4
4. Kiwanis Kavaliers	86.2
5. Spartans		85.6
6. Limited Edition	83.8
7. Arizona Sun		82.7
8. Allegiance Elite	81.9
9. SGI Fuji (Japan)	79.9
10. Ventures		79.0
11. Patriots		75.2
12. Railmen		72.5
13. Florida Guardsmen	72.1
14. Cardinals		68.7
15. NYC Lancers		68.5
16. Seattle Cascades	64.2
17. Golden Lancers	57.0
18. Northwind Rebels	53.4


Whew! OK--Div. II/III finals

1. Southwind		92.9 GE, Percussion, Visual
2. Northern Aurora	91.9
3. Carolina Crown	90.5 Brass 
4. Kiwanis Kavaliers	87.3
5. Spartans		84.0


1. Mandarins		90.0
2. Pioneer		88.7
3. Blue Stars		82.4
4. Academie Musicale	82.0
5. Suncoast Sound	80.2
6. Capitolaires		77.8
7. St. John's		74.6
Newsgroups: alt.drumcorps
From: tmv@blitzen.uucp (26129-vandewater)
Subject: Re: VK bashing & DC North
Organization: Bellcore, Livingston, NJ
Date: Mon, 17 Aug 92 14:24:10 GMT

In article <Aug.14.10.34.28.1992.24986@andromeda.rutgers.edu>, dowzycki@andromeda.rutgers.edu (Ken Dowzycki) writes:
>    The biggest problem I have with the Velvet Knights is that
> they are nothing, nothing but regurgitated Bridgemen.  I had the
> displeasure of growing up on a steady diet of Bridgemen bullshit 
> which includes chickens, dancing bears, lions, fat lady, tall man, 
> clowns, so forth and so on.  Velvet Knights are doing the same
> thing only with a modern drill, but guess what, IT ISN'T WORKING.
> VK seems to field a full corps every year yet they will always be
> relegated to the cellar (of finals).  If they are smart they will
> take a page from Star's book.  No more Mickey Mouse, Space Show, 
> Circus Acts, they wised up and look where they are today.

I disagree with you completely here...do you think, Ken, that VK's
role is to win finals or place in the top 6?  No way!  But you implied
this from your email saying that if they take a page from Star's book,
they'll move up.  I was at finals and you know what?  VK was perfect!
The crowd loved them, I loved them, and drum corps needs them.  If VK
came out next year and performed a serious symphony or whatever
and moved up to, say, 7th place, would you consider that a success?
I'd consider it a failure since they are giving up what they are best
known for, crazy antics and entertaining the crowd.

IT IS WORKING!
   --

Tom
---

Newsgroups: alt.drumcorps
From: jac@cis.ohio-state.edu (Jim Clausing)
Subject: Re: Stadium sites will and have sucked!
Originator: jac@golf.cis.ohio-state.edu
Organization: Ohio State Computer Science
	<1992Aug17.134631.1@vax1.umkc.edu>
Distribution: na
Date: Tue, 18 Aug 1992 14:56:33 GMT

In article <1992Aug17.134631.1@vax1.umkc.edu> cputnam@vax1.umkc.edu writes:

[...stuff deleted...]

   Well, Krista, I don't know about anyone else, but I don't go to the world
   championships to see the locals.  I'm not flaming, but let's look at it.  As
   much as I hated the general attitude of people in New York, if they had the
   championships in Giants Stadium, I would go.  I did like the great hospitality
   of Madison, it was refreshing to see an entire city so happy to see DCI.  But I 
   don't go to see the locals, I go to see the corps.  The fans are the ones that
   are important.  They are the ones that support the activity.  The marching
   members are important to, but they don't pay to keep DCI alive and they get
   applause no matter where they are (except Star).

Have you ever SEEN a show in Giants Stadium?  Garfield puts on at
least one show there every summer and fills it pretty well, but the
acoustics are awful (aren't they in most/all completely enclosed
stadiums?) although everyone in the upper deck can appreciate the
drill (too bad they can't hear the pit).  When I lived in NJ I
attended that show every year and every year vowed that it was my
last, but kept going back for another chance to see the Blue Devils or
Santa Clara or Madison or the Cavies.  I admit I've never been in
Arrowhead, but I did attend finals in Madison a few years back and
except for the seats being typical Big Ten stadium seats didn't find
Camp Randall to be any worse than any other big stadium for watching
drum corps.  I even liked Rich Stadium for finals two years ago
(three?  when was it?), but that was probably due to the fact that I
was on the 50 yard line (well the 48, an aisle actually coincided with
the 50) in the 18th row.  Back before the season began there was a
thread in this newsgroup about the politics of choosing sites for
finals.  You won't get more support from the locals anywhere than you
get in Madison, but they (and KC among others) wouldn't come up with
the $$$ that DCI wanted, so no more finals.  I think that is sad since
DCI and Madison have ties going back so far.  I've been hooked on drum
corps since I heard the Madison Scouts for the first time during the
summer of 1975 (when they won DCI for the first time).  Nostalgic sigh...

   Well, let's keep the stadium and city stuff going.

Well, we wouldn't want to disappoint you.

   IRC nick-BlueDevil (my IRC nickname is BlueDevil, my real name is NOT Nick)


--
Jim Clausing					jac@cis.ohio-state.edu
CIS Dept.					(614)292-4029
Ohio State University			fax:	(614)764-0271
From: peteo@Ingres.COM (THE OLDER I GET, THE BETTER I USED TO BE)
Newsgroups: alt.drumcorps
Subject: Re: VK Bashing & DC North
Date: 21 Aug 92 15:03:14 GMT
Organization: ASK Computer Systems, Ingres Product Division
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.4-b1

In article <1992Aug21.050420.14696@vela.acs.oakland.edu>, bfhalls@vela.acs.oakland.edu (HALLS BRADLEY F)        writes...
>In article <BtABrG.CoH@news.cso.uiuc.edu> mmcneill@duchamp.ncsa.uiuc.edu (Michael Mcneill -Visualization) writes:
>>In article <HALL.92Aug17084959@leopard.cs.uidaho.edu> hall@cs.uidaho.edu (Kelly Hall) writes:
>>>In article <Aug.14.15.26.32.1992.4506@andromeda.rutgers.edu> dowzycki@andromeda.rutgers.edu (Ken Dowzycki) writes:
>>>
>>>   >Sure, none of the sections is a dominant force in the corps from
>>>   >year to year, like, say, that drumline that took high drums in
>>>   >'80,'81,'82 from.... gosh, was it the Bridgemen? But so what?  
>>>
>>>
>>>     '80  27th and BD were robbed
>>>I disagree - the Bridgemen played a great show at finals.  I was blown away
>>>by 27 in prelims but Bridgemen had the better line.
>>
>Note: this is not meant to be a flame, but the Briegemen drumline should
>never, repeat never have won drums. As good as they were, there were many
>other lines during those years that should have thoroughly (sp?) trounced
>them. In '80 it was Spirit; in '81, Vanguard without a doubt; and in '82
>it was a toss-up between BD and SCV.
> 
>IMHO: The '81 Vanguard drumline was surley the best ever to hit a football
>field. That line had no peer.

->
Even though I wasn't in the drum line, I'll say thanks Brad.  They worked
awful hard that summer (but then again, which corps doesn't work their tails
off) and had to overcome some early probs.  I distinctly remember talking 
to the guys that marched the marimbas, vibraphone, etc..about not practicing
when the rest of the corps was rehearsing. The reply with a BIG smile was 
"because we're tickless and we're working on Individuals right now". It was
a bold statement, but these guys were a little unique, eccentric...
By the way, this happened about midway through the season.

\\peteo
SCV '81



> 
>>Actually in 1980 it was Spirit's line that was robbed.  They tied Bridge in 
>>overall score, but the judges used the GE score to break the tie.  Naturally, 
>>Bridgemen had the higher GE score and so they won High Drums.  Float was 
>>teaching with Spirit then and the line was incredibly clean.  Remember ticks? 
>>Spirit's line had 2 in finals that year! 
> 
>Tom Float always said that the '80 spirit line was the best he ever taught;
>None of his lines at devils ever reached the same level of intensity...
>(which we were never too glad to hear).
> 
>--Brad.
> 
> 
> 
>-- 
>^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^
>Brad Halls                                "Still looking for witty quote."
>Computer Science Grad Student              -me         
>Oakland University
>Rochester, Michigan
>bfhalls@vela.acs.oakland.edu
> 
>^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^
From: jvbutera@grad01.math.ncsu.edu (Jeffrey V. Butera)
Subject: Re: The Star of Indiana, HATE
Keywords: The Star of Indiana, why do they hate them?
Organization: NCSU Mathematics Dept.
Date: Thu, 20 Aug 1992 12:17:09 GMT

In article <1992Aug19.162644.187@aimla.com> chris@optimla.aimla.com (Chris Angelli) writes:
>
>In article <1992Aug18.185848.8020@beaver.cs.washington.edu> you write:
>>In article <1992Aug18.161926.5924@midway.uchicago.edu> xklh@midway.uchicago.edu writes:
>
>.... bunch of stuff deleted here....
 .... more stuff deleted here....

>.... blah blah blah....
>
>
>OK, I've never seen Star, I am completely ignorant about how good/bad/ugly
>they are.  I have been out of the activity for 10 years, so I don't know
>what the current judging criteria are.  So how can I possibly have anything
>intelligent to add to this discussion?  Well it really bothers me (I mean
>hair-standing-up-on-the-back-of-my-neck-type bothers me) to hear phrases
>like "have to have a uniform look for the right visual effect".  Am I the
                      ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Hey - have you ever marched in a snare line?  I'll tell you that's it not
only looks odd but is also DIFFICULT if the height of the individuals
are not all within 2"-3" of each other.  I know, we had one really tall
guy in the line (6'2")  and the line LOOKED wierd.  Something like:


                                      ####
   #### #### #### #### #### #### #### |  | ####
   |  | |  | |  | |  | |  | |  | |  | |  | |  |

You get the point - it make the line look like 8 individuals, not a
single ensemble.....

>only one that is reminded of Hitlers Aryan ideal?  I mean, maybe I'm over-
>reacting here, but I find it hard to believe that a judge would say "Hey,
>that snare line's really tight, but that guy (or girl) in the middle is
>just too tall (or short or fat or skinny or dark-skinned or light-skinned or
>what have you) and it takes away from the effect."  COME ON.  Now I realize
>that this is not a utopian world here and that people are not always nice
>and accepting of diversity.  But to actively promote prejudice is something 
>I find reprehensible and, yes, HATEFUL.  
>
>Also I don't understand what you mean by the conflict between drum corps as
>a youth activity and drum corps as a music education medium.  What conflict?
>Are those two things mutually exclusive?  If a person is excluded from a 
>top corps due to lack of ability, that's one thing.  If a person is excluded
>due to some physical characteristic over which they have no control that's an 
>entirely different matter. 
>
>Sorry for the diatribe.  You just struck a chord in me... (OK, so I'm a little
>short!)
>
>-Chris
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>-- 
>Christine Angelli						chrisr@aimla.com
>Philips Interactive Media of America	uunet!aimla!chris
>Sidewalk Studios


-- 
Jeff Butera <> Math Grad Student, N.C. State <> jvbutera@math.ncsu.edu

DISCLAIMER: My views are my own and I'll be a big N.C.State Wolfpack 
fan as soon as hell freezes over.  Until then... Go Clemson Tigers! 
Newsgroups: alt.drumcorps