HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: genetic+@pitt.edu (Tate N Smith)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
Subject: Re: DAVID CONE TO BLUE JAYS
Date: 2 Sep 92 14:30:41 GMT
Organization: University of Pittsburgh

In article <1992Sep1.185553.1623@sni.ca> dave@silver.sni.ca (Dave Till) writes:
>
>The problem with indiscriminate lineup shuffling is that it confuses the
>hitters.  Players often find it difficult to adjust to a new role.  

I'd phrase this a little differently.  To wit, the problem is that some maniac
has brainwashed the players into thinking that different lineup positions have
different roles, to such an extent that one should modify one's approach to
hitting in order to conform better to the pre-specified role for the spot you
are currently batting in.

Far better would be to let the hitters figure out what style of hitting gives
them the best results overall, and then let the manager decide how to sequence
these talents for maximum run-scoring.  There's no reason for John Olerud's
hitting to suffer in the #2 spot if he's convinced that nobody expects (or even
wants) him to change his batting style just because he's batting #2.  It's the
manager's job to do that convincing.


>Besides, a player bumped out of a significant offensive slot (leadoff,
>cleanup, etc.) becomes unhappy, which might decrease his production.

Uh, doesn't the player moved *into* that vacated significant offensive slot
(SOS) become correspondingly happier?  (Old Argument Revisited: short of Gary
Sheffield extreme cases, I see no reason to think that happy players hit
better than unhappy ones.)

>If I were Cito Gaston, I wouldn't tinker with the lineup unless I was *sure*
>that Devon White's performance in the field or at the plate would not
>get worse as a result.  

How much worse could it get?

At any rate, I'm not advocating shifting the lineup around constantly; I'm
just advocating picking a lineup that MAKES SENSE, and then sticking with it.

-- 
      David M. Tate      | From my dugout sleep I fell into the Game
 dtate@unix.cis.pitt.edu | And I crouched in the circle while my insides froze
 Randall 'Chico' Jarrell | One out from death, one hit from dreamt-of glory
"Death of a Pinch Hitter"| I woke to 'Strike One!' and the nightmare sliders...
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
From: claudius@leland.Stanford.EDU (Nelson Lu)
Subject: Jose Canseco (Was Re: Kenny Rogers (was Re: THE trade... A ranger fan's thoughts..)
Keywords: eat more ranger moose
Organization: DSG, Stanford University, CA 94305, USA
Distribution: na
Date: Thu, 3 Sep 92 22:27:57 GMT

In article <1992Sep3.210018.23744@tamsun.tamu.edu> rlopez@loanstar.tamu.edu (Robert Lopez) writes:

>Now wait a minute.  He has the option of asking to be traded.  In an interview
>yesterday (9/2/92) he was very honest and said he didn't know if he'd
>exercise that option because he hadn't been with Texas and played yet.
>Stay tuned.

If Jose is intelligent, he won't, because if he does, he has no control over
where he goes *and* he cannot declare free agency for another 5 years, when
he will be 32.

===============================================================================
GO CALIFORNIA ANGELS!
===============================================================================
Nelson Lu (claudius@leland.stanford.edu)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
From: tedward@cs.cornell.edu (Edward [Ted] Fischer)
Subject: Re: Pitchers who hit (again)
Organization: Cornell Univ. CS Dept, Ithaca NY 14853
Date: Wed, 26 Aug 1992 03:14:33 GMT

In article <69TP02Kk1f8M01@JUTS.ccc.amdahl.com> msw10@nepenthe.as writes:
>
>My question is, why are pitchers always batted last? The Mets had SS
>Dick Schofield, who was hitting .205 hitting second. It seems to me
>like it would make a lot more sense to bat a pitcher who has shown he
>can *consistently* hit above .250 the same place you would bat any
>other player who bats >.250.

If you find such a pitcher, please let me know.

From 1984 to 1990, Gooden had 94 hits in 513 AB.  That is a .183 BA.
Definitely not "consistently above .250".

Your post is a perfect example of the most common abuse of statistics.
This stat is based on a ridiculously small sample set.  His .280
batting average this year is probably over only 50 AB.  And as such,
it is meaningless.  If, after the second week of the season, Gantner
was hitting .400 with a HR and three doubles, would you want to bat
him cleanup?  It is equally ridiculous to treat Gooden's single-season
batting average with any weight.

>The only reasons I could think of were that
>1) everyday players are viewed as too neurotic to be moved from their
>normal position in the batting order every 5th day (which maybe
>explains why the Giants can't hit as Roger Craig rarely sticks with
>one lineup this year) or
>
>2) it's just another stupid tradition managers follow without
>thinking about.

Let me postulate, for the sake of argument, that you *do* come up with
a pitcher who can consistently hit .250.  Call him Don Robinson.  I
can think of three other reasons to bat him ninth.

3) You don't want Don running the bases and tiring himself out.  Give
him as few AB as possible.

4) If Don gets blown away in the second inning, you don't want to have
to bat the relief pitchers in the #6 spot for the rest of the game.

5) That .250 batting average is probably emptier than the California
state treasury!  Schofield at least walks a fair amount and runs the
bases well.

Cheers,
-Valentine
-- 
Clemens may not win his 4th CY, but he still rules!	tedward@cs.cornell.edu
From: napier@cs.ucsd.edu (Jim Napier)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
Subject: Collectible Autographed Baseball
Date: 31 Aug 92 20:05:10 GMT
Organization: CSE Dept., UC San Diego


I discovered my mom has a baseball autographed by all (or almost all) the
1952 Brooklyn Dodgers. Does anyone who collects baseball memorabilia know
what this may be worth? Thanks.

-- 
Jim Napier
UC San Diego
jnapier@ucsd.edu
Jim Napier
Systems Administration
Applied Mechanics & Engineering Sciences Dept.
UC San Diego
From: kbos@carina.unm.edu (Kurt Bose "of Biscayzee")
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
Subject: Re: All Right:  WHO IS JEFF KENT?
Keywords: Flabbergasted Mets' Fans Demand to Know
Date: 27 Aug 92 20:39:33 GMT
Organization: University of New Mexico, Albuquerque

In article <1992Aug27.183211.15668@cs.cornell.edu> tedward@cs.cornell.edu (Edward [Ted] Fischer) writes:
>In article <1992Aug27.172554.3164@porthos.cc.bellcore.com> dick1@hera.uucp (25443-vaughn) writes:
>
>Jeff Kent is 24 and can play 2B or 3B.  He is no defensive whiz, but
>I've seen worse.  This year he is hitting .241/.326/.449.  That's
>*eight* HR (and 13 2B) in only 187 AB.  And he's still young.  And
>he's a rookie, which makes him even more valuable.  (The Mets get him
>free for a while.)
>
Wow, the Mets' new center fielder.

>>And: is this all that a David Cone gets on the open market?
>
>What did you expect?  He *is* a free agent in five weeks.  Besides,
>don't forget the PTBNL.  It could very likely be Ed Sprague or
>somebody like that.

Hey, a second baseman.

-- 
Kurt Bose (as in Daisy, not Rose) - kbos@carina.unm.edu - I'm not the AntiChrist
I AM the AntiWoofer. - Junior Stathead{tm} - I'm a shutmouthed, selfless idiot!!
Latest Attempted Compiler of the R.S.BB FAQ - Now Accepting Submissions...(hint)
Have you hugged a Dan Gladden fan today? - Dave Rossing : .531/54/214 at Denver!
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
From: rcread@iastate.edu (Richard C Read)
Subject: Re: Why aren't there more baseball player actors?
Organization: Iowa State University, Ames, IA
Date: Tue, 1 Sep 1992 01:42:49 GMT


  How about Uhlker (It's probably fitting I can't remember how to spell his
name). The old Cardenal catcher who had his own TV show, and was in the
movie 'Major Leagues'. Has done a lot of commericals and is the butt of 
a lot of jokes.

  Babe Ruth made some early movies. Many baseball players have been on TV
mostly playing themslves. Stars like Mantle, Maris, Mays all are so well
known in their time they could never be seen as anything but a baseball 
star. 
   
   Really big, long time baseball stars become local icons, and usually
sign a contract with their club as VP of player development or something, 
where they make public apperences to promote the club.
   
   My 0.02
From: jacobson@arcturus.bucknell.edu (douglas jacobson GR)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
Subject: Re: DAVID CONE TO BLUE JAYS
Date: 30 Aug 92 18:14:37 GMT
Organization: Bucknell University, Lewisburg, PA

In article <5307@blue.cis.pitt.edu.UUCP> psg+@pitt.edu (Paul S Galvanek) writes:
>
>Although I'm sure there are numerous other reason but with a guy like Sheffield
>who had been anything but a star in the AL suddenly rising to the top of the
>NL in offense and the big stars like Mitchell and Cone getting wasted it would
>appear on the surface that the AL organizations are landing the more talented
>players these days.  I can't think of a single player in recent memory that has
>gone from being a NL star to the AL and been able to carry over his success.
>
>humm?
>
>Paul

Gregg Jefferies.






.......
--
Douglas Jacobson		             __o                  GO METS!
jacobson@bucknell.edu                      `\_<,                  GO JETS!
                       __________________(*)/'(*)__________________
From: king@ssvax.gte.com (Larry King)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
Subject: Re: Blockbuster Trade
Date: 2 Sep 92 17:34:13 GMT
Article-I.D.: europa.1992Sep2.173413.10808
Organization: GTE/SCSD
X-Newsreader: Tin 1.1 PL5


	The one thing that Oakland will have out of this trade though is
a lower team salary, Witt (who could to better in a larger park), and 4
draft picks.  Since Oakland didn't want to pay Canseco's salary and they
have Eckersley for 2 more years look for Sierra and Russell to go.  Then
the A's get 2 draft picks for each signing.  Not that draft picks always
work out but if you want to rebuild a hurting farm system and lower your
salary, this is the way to do it.  Personally, I hope Canseco has a
great time in Texas and doesn't demand to be traded.  If the pitching
can be turned around this winter, they could be there next year.

	As far as this season goes, they should have no problem holding
onto the West.  Minnesota has won 3 straight but I don't think they will
make up the 6 games they need.  Look for them to finish 2 or 3 back. 
Oakland should be able to beat whoever comes out of the east and then
the WS looks interesting but if it is Atlanta, I think Atlanta will 
win.  

--
Larry King
GTE Government Systems, Needham, MA    		(617) 455-3384 
E-Mail : king%ssvax.dnet@get.com
Xref: sparky rec.sport.baseball:25860 ba.sports:510
From: sieferme@milton.u.washington.edu (Eric Sieferman)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball,ba.sports
Subject: Re: More on the possible sale of the Giants
Date: 28 Aug 92 17:09:36 GMT
Organization: University of Washington, Seattle

In article <1992Aug27.105554.16320@pdn.paradyne.com> oxley@pdn.paradyne.com (Don Oxley) writes:
>
>George Shinn has a reputation that is not good among MLB owners.
>His financial situation with the Hornets is not good, and if I
>recall, he was a BIG loser in the World Football League.
>
>Those two, plus as you mentioned, not available cash, does not
>go well with the other owners.
>
>
>DonO
>

Besides, the Shinn deal looks like some sort of Trojan Horse
to me.  The desparation of Giants fans is understandable, but
do you really want your team purchased by a guy from a city
which has not hidden its lust for MLB?  This deal could
keep the Giants in SF for a while, but long term ... ?

-- 
| Eric Sieferman            |   Edgar Martinez for MVP!              |
| U. of W., M.C.I.S.        |   Dave Fleming for Rookie of the Year! |
| sieferme@u.washington.edu |   Bill Plummer for ... uh ... er ...   |
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
From: mjw@Xenon.Stanford.EDU (Michael Wolverton)
Subject: Re: <None>
Organization: Computer Science Department, Stanford University.
Date: Fri, 4 Sep 1992 17:52:05 GMT

In article <5463@blue.cis.pitt.edu.UUCP> genetic+@pitt.edu (Dr. Dave) writes:
>(Irate aside:  last night, Jim Leyland had Jay Bell sacrifice Alex Cole to
>second with nobody out in the first inning, and the Pirates already trailing
>the Giants 2-0.  It may have been the single stupidest in-game managerial move
>I've ever seen.)

Amen.  But, just to show the rest of the world what we have to put
up with here in the Bay Area: the Giants radio announcers (especially
Ron "Dumber than Ray Knight" Fairly) spent the rest of the inning
praising Leyland's shrewd move.  "A good manager will let his players
do what they do best", they said.  "And what Jay Bell does best is
sacrifice."

-Michael
-- 
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
Michael Wolverton                       "Is that clear?"
mjw@cs.stanford.edu                     "No, but it's consistent!"
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
From: roger@crux.Princeton.EDU (Roger Lustig)
Subject: Re: Ugliest *ever* (was: Re: Ugliest Man in Baseball??)
Originator: news@nimaster
Reply-To: roger@astro.princeton.edu (Roger Lustig)
Organization: Princeton University
Date: Thu, 3 Sep 1992 21:07:46 GMT

In article <6146@transfer.stratus.com> gene@ok.sw.stratus.com (Eugene Loparco) writes:
>In article <3SEP199209395268@mary.fordham.edu> nissim@mary.fordham.edu (Leonard J. Nissim) writes:
>>In article <1SEP92.20311267@vax.clarku.edu> hhenderson@vax.clarku.edu writes:
>>>I had thought that Randy Johnson was the ugliest active player
>>>[...]
>>Bill James, in "The Bill James Historical Baseball Abstract" (1985) gives the 
>>ugliest player(s) in each decade, in his opinion:
>>1950's: **Don Mossi** (**Ugliest of All-time**)

>>A picture of Mossi is on page 219 of the hard-cover edition, and he is ugly 
>>enough to frighten small children.  James' description:
>>     "Mossi's ears looked as if they had been borrowed from a much larger 
>>species, and reattached without proper supervision.  His nose was crooked, 
>>his eyes were in the wrong place, and ... he had no neck to speak of, just
>>a series of chins that melted into his chest."

>What an asshole.  I know that everybody is having fun with this thread and
>I see nothing wrong with that, but did Bill James really take the time to
>research this and then print it in his book!?  It seems like he is insulting
>the guy big-time and lowering his own respectibility and credibility at the 
>same time.  What is this garbage doing in a book?

Oh, for heaven's sake.  Those of us old enough to remember Don Mossi baseball
cards have been making harmless fun of the guy for decades.  Besides, Mossi
took a lot of ribbing about his looks over the years and was quite good-
natured about it, by all accounts.  The guy was funny looking and knew it.

Mossi was a good ballplayer, and James would bethe first to tell you that.
But no article about Mossi would be accurate without mention of his
looks, which everyone who ever saw him play (and many who did not) 
noticed.

>By the way, I'm not flaming you, just Bill James who I am sure looks
>strikingly similar to Cary Grant...

He's taller than Grant, and has a beard.  Looks fairly average.

btw, Bill James discusses why he does the "ugly" ratings in his 
preface, I think.  Why not read it?  The book is an essential for
fans of the game and its history.

Roger

Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
From: billg@bony1.bony.com (Bill Gripp)
Subject: Re: Why aren't there more baseball player actors?
Organization: LA&W RR
Date: Wed, 2 Sep 92 14:05:44 GMT

In article <31AUG199217180563@mary.fordham.edu> nissim@mary.fordham.edu (Leonard J. Nissim) writes:
>In article <1992Aug31.192834.18212@linus.mitre.org>, 
>sdo@hoops.mitre.org (Sean D. O'Neil) writes...
>[stuff deleted] 
>>In addition to Karras and Dryer, I can recall, off the top of my head, 
>>the following football players in acting roles:
>> 
>> 
>>Jim Brown:		THE DIRTY DOZEN (and many other films) 
>>Roman Gabriel:		(some John Wayne flick.  Roman plays his
>>			adopted Indian son.  Also stars Rock Hudson)
>>Joe Namath:		CC RIDER AND COMPANY (with Ann Margaret)
>>Terry Bradshaw:		HOOPER (a Burt Reynolds flick)
>>Mean Joe Greene:	MEAN JOE AND THE KID (or something like that.
>>			A movie version of the Coke commercial---yuk!)
>>Larry Csonka:		episode of BANACEK
>>Lyle Alzado:		THE EXTERMINATOR (again, or something like that.
>>			Lyle plays a killer who is executed but comes back
>>			to life)
>>Brian Bosworth:		(can't remember the name.  Brian plays an
>>			undercover cop.  Currently languishing on video
>>			shelves everywhere)
>>(Oakland Raider and
>>Anthony Munoz):		A lineman and a linebacker, repectively, in
>>			NORTH DALLAS FORTY
>>Mike Ditka:		episode of LA LAW (actually, this shouldn't count
>>			since he played himself)
>> 
>> 
>>In addition, I have this nagging feeling that the following players have
>>acted in something other than commercials at one time or another:
>> 
>>Bubba Smith
>>Dick Butkus
>>Franco Harris
>> 
>You forgot:  Ed Marinaro (of Minn. Vikings 1972-? and later NY Jets)
>             He acted in Hill St. Blues, is now in Sisters, and has
>             been in several TV movies, including The Diamond Trap with 
>             Brooke Shields.  


Add Roosevelt "Rosie" Greer to the list.
And you've all forgetten OJ Simpson.
From: sager@cbnewsf.cb.att.com (mike.r.sager)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
Subject: Delino DeShields injury status
Date: 31 Aug 92 06:17:20 GMT
Distribution: na
Organization: AT&T


I understand Delino DeShields left Friday's game with a strained muscle.
Anyone know how serious the injury is and how long he's expected to be
out?  Thanks for any info.

Mike Sager
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
From: mard@quads.uchicago.edu (Adrian N. Marden)
Subject: Re: Brave fans
Reply-To: mard@midway.uchicago.edu
Organization: University of Chicago Computing Organizations
Date: Wed, 26 Aug 1992 18:24:13 GMT

In article <66893@hydra.gatech.EDU> gt7469a@prism.gatech.EDU (Brian Landmann) writes:
>I'm getting really tired of poor Braves's fans.
>I went to the Braves/Expos game last night and to my disbelief the
>fans were booing Tom Glavine.  I know every city has some poor
>fans but how can you boo a guy who has already won 19 games?

	Well, I'm a Braves fan and I wouldn't boo Tom Glavine if he was 8-14. 
Feel bad for those saps because they don't know what loyalty is, not because
they're Braves fans (which, incidentally, is better than being a disloyal Mets
fan, since the Mets aren't going to win it all this year...)

-- 
*	Adrian "Nick" Marden  	    *	"The A's have Dennis Eckersley-	      *
*	mard@midway.uchicago.edu    *	he doesn't blow anybody!"	      *
*	home:(312)-684-1913	    *			-Steve Stone	      *
*	work(?):(312)-702-7269	    *					      *
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
From: spira@panix.com (Greg "Sarcasm Is A Way Of Life" Spira)
Subject: Re: Cone and Overwork?
Date: Wed, 2 Sep 1992 18:17:27 GMT
Organization: Boo!  

In <1992Sep1.175142.10754@afit.af.mil> cscott@csc.afit.af.mil (Carl W. Scott) writes:

>On a related issue, it does seem strange to continually here broadcasters
>and other media personnel describe the "overworked" phenomena of baseball
>players.  An awful lot of fuss is made about young pitchers working 200+
>innings or playing in 150+ games.  I seem to remember many seasons where
>that was the norm--an expected threshhold for players making "the big
>bucks."  According to many, today's players are better athletes than 
>their predecessors and have received great benefits from sports medicine
>advancements.  Yet, they seemingly don't measure up in the durability
>aspect of the game.  Does anybody have any theories why this is so?

This is kind of an FAQ, but I'll give you three reasons:

1) Pitchers throw a lot more pitches per inning than they used to.
Part of the reason is the smaller strike zone.

2) The game is a lot more competitive these days.  In the old days,
pitchers didn't give their all on every pitch, by their own admission.
That's no longer true.

3) The 5 man rotation. Research has shown that the biggest problem is
not how many innings total are pitched so much as it is how many innings
are pitched when the arm is tired.  If managers switched back to a 4 man
rotation, pitchers might be able to pitch a few more innings without the
strain of those innings pitched post-tiredness.

(For a fuller discussion of the latter and some of the former 2, see
Craig Wright's book The Diamond Appraised)

Greg 
-- 
  spira@panix.com       "The one-O delivery to Fisk.  He swings.  Long drive,  
 cmcl2!panix!spira      left field!  If it stays fair, it's gone!  Home Run!"  
158-17 Riverside Dr.                     Ned Martin, 10/22/75   
Whitestone NY 11357          (Insert your favorite baseball moment here) 
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
From: cheese@oahu.cs.ucla.edu (Charles Alpert)
Subject: Can the Phillies Contend in 1993?
Organization: UCLA Computer Science Department
Date: Tue, 1 Sep 92 18:41:16 GMT

Okay, so they are currently the worst team in baseball; however,
I think they have a solid core for a championship team.
They have Kruk (2nd in RC for 1B), Daulton, who is having the
best season of any catcher since - well for a very long time,
Dykstra, who needs to be healthy, and Dave Hollins, who is only
25.  Throw in pretty decent players Morandini, Chamberlain, and
Duncan, and you have a hell of an offense (tops in runs scored).

Of course, they have glaring holes at SS and RF.  Ruben (Tune in)
Amaro has received an obscene number of at bats, and Juan Bell had
better not be starting next season.

They also have two very high quality starting pitchers in Mulholland
and Schilling, and Tommy Greene will be back next year.  The problem
is not with the Phillies core talent - it's with the supporting cast
which has been absolutely horrendous.  Anyone know how many games
Barry Jones lost by himself before he was released?  Wild Thing is 
having a pretty bad year but I'll think he'll bounce back.

Having a core of talent with a poor supporting cast is much better
than having no core at all.  Remember a few years ago when their best
player was Von Purple Haze.  No team has ever won anything with Von
(or your local equivalent) as its best player.

So here's what they do - make the free agent push, sign Bonds and
Maddux.  Instead of having the leagues worst RF, they have the best
(assuming Bonds in right, Chamberlain in left).  Maddux would give 
them a solid 4-man rotation (this year they had a solid 2-man 
rotation), and somehow make trades to shore up the bullpen.  Also,
if they can afford it, sign Ozzie.  

They should be able to afford it - Philly's the 4th largest market,
probably the largest with only one franchise, and I know they have
a large TV contract and their payroll can't be that high (maybe they
can dump Dale Murphy somewhere, like in the Delaware).



Chuck Alpert

Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
From: aardvark@locus.com (Warren Usui)
Subject: Re: Home Run Rule: Lind's Hit in Dodger-Pirate Game
Organization: Locus Computing Corporation, Los Angeles, California
Date: Tue, 25 Aug 1992 23:54:51 GMT

In article <BtJxuC.DLu@news.cso.uiuc.edu> jhg8680@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (Jon  Hamkins) writes:
>
>There are rules discussing how many bases to award when a fielder
>deflects a ball into the stands.
>
>6.09 "The batter becomes a runner when---
>(g) Any bounding fair ball is deflected by the fielder into the stands,
>or over or under a fence on fair or foul territory, in which case the
>batter and all runners shall be entitled to advance two bases;
>(h) Any fair fly ball is deflected by the fielder into the stands, or
>over the fence into foul territory, in which case the batter shall be
>entitled to advance to second base; but if deflected into the stands or
>over the fence in fair territory, the batter shall be entitled to a
>home run. ..."
>

What would be the ruling if the outfielder intentionally knocked the ball
out of the park?  For example, let's say I'm playing right field and there
is a guy on first.  Someone hits a line drive over my head that bounces up
against the wall.  Can I hold the runner at first to third by throwing
the ball in the stands?  I'm sure that there has got to be some ruling
for this or else it would happen more often.

-- 
Warren Usui
aardvark@locus.com
uunet!lcc!aardvark

Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball