From: cza@prefect.uucp (Cengiz Akgun)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.turkish,talk.politics.mideast,talk.politics.soviet,soc.culture.greek,soc.culture.europe
Subject: Re: The Net-Dolt Asks if Historical Revisionists Lie...
Keywords: at least
Date: 10 Apr 92 19:58:48 GMT
Reply-To: cza@prefect.UUCP (Cengiz Akgun)
Organization: Bell Communications Research, Navesink, NJ,

In article <1992Apr08.190134.662@urartu.SDPA.org> dbd@urartu.SDPA.org (David Davidian) writes:
><1992Apr05.002822.28045@microsoft.com> marcmil@microsoft.com (Marc MILANINI), 
>Yes!
>
>Some of the above lie, yet others have been used in the cover-up of the
>Turkish genocide of the Armenians, by the revisionist who pulls text out of
>its context. We only need take on one of them, Stanford Shaw, who has received
>monetary compensation for his anti-Armenian efforts. In addition, we shall use
>Justin McCarthy help us!
>
>[(*] Source: Stanford J. Shaw, "History of the Ottoman Empire and Modern 
>[(*] Turkey," Vol II. Cambridge University Press, London, 1979, pp. 314-317.
>[(*]
>[(*] "An Armenian state was organized at Van under Russian protection, and it 
>[(*] appeared that with the Muslim natives dead or driven away, it might be
>[(*] able to maintain itself at one of the oldest centers of ancient Armenian
>[(*] civilization.
>
>Hmm...today we have 0% Armenians in this "oldest center of ancient Armenian
>civilization"!

They were driven out.  Simply were driven out from there because 
they besieged the city of Van (which belong to the Ottoman Empire 
and Armenians were the citizens of that state by centuries at the 
time on November 1914 while Russian Army were advancing on eastern 
Ottoman soil. 

>
>[(*] An Armenian legion was organized 'to expel the Turks from
>[(*] the entire southern shore of the lake in preparation for a concerted
>[(*] Russian drive into the Bitlis vilayet.'[162] Thousands of Armenians from
>[(*] Mus and other major centers in the east began to flood into the new 
>[(*] Armenian state...By mid-July there were as many as 250,000 Armenians
>[(*] crowded into the Van area, which before the crisis had housed and fed
>[(*] no more than 50,000 people, Muslim and non-Muslim alike.[163]"
>
>Shaw is in the service of Turkey as an apologist for genocide. Perhaps Shaw's
>Turkish wife made him write such trash. Maybe he wrote such trash in order to
>keep his wife. Perhaps such trash came after he converted from a Jew to a 
>Turk. In any event the following refutes his trash:
>
>Let's read what the Turkish governor of Van, Jevdet Bey, wrote to the Italian 
>vice consul in Van: [1]
>
>Dated April 23, 1915
>
>"Dear Mr. Spordoni,
>
>	"The troublemakers, who appealed to you for three or four days grace
>	 so that they could complete their purpose. The guard at Hamud Agha
>	 was murdered Monday night, telephone lines were cut, and the
>	 telegraph office at Khach-Poghan was attacked by singing young men
>	 ..."
>
>On the following day, Mr. Spordoni, Italian vice consul responded. The
>following are excerpts from his response: [2]
>
>	"Armenians have resorted to arms because they believe the government,
>	 under guise of conscription, intends to exterminate them totally and
>	 indescriminintely. Without waiting for or hoping for any assistance
>	 from Russians, they have firmly resolved to defend the lives of their
>	 families...
>
>	 ...but according to the information gathered by me, the gendarmes
>	 [government's] there opened fire first, without being attacked.
>

Armenians had resorted arms long before the time frame
mentioned above.  The city was besieged on November 1914.
About six months earlier than the decision of resettlement
came to light.  No effort can change the fact about what was the
cause and what was the result.   Whoever wrote this fiction
above has to be trained more stringently like Andonian who wrote 
other fiction about Talat's Telegrams.  Even I am able to catch the
fabrication above without checking the sources.  There is
nothing left the eminent Historians to do. 

>Two days later, on April 26th, 1915, Jevdet responded to Mr. Spordoni: [3]
>
>	"...I was astonished at the contents of your letter...I hope in the
>	 near future to put an end to the disturbances here also...Until and
>	 unless they [Armenians] surrender their arms and declare their
>	 absolute submission, I am compelled to continue the task of
>	 chastisement."
>
>Now let's read what really happened in Van, offered by Frijdof Nansen in 1928:
We know very well what happened in Van.  Certainly, we
don't need what Nansen offered in 1928  as long as the first
hand eyewitnesses are still being around.   

>
>Finally to quote a paid apologist for the Turkish government, Prof. Justin
>McCarthy:
>
>	"The 1927 Turkish census registered not one person of the [Gregorian] 
>  	 Armenian faith in Van, only one in Bayazit and twelve in Erzerum. A 
>	 people who had lived in eastern Anatolia since before recorded 
>	 history were simply gone" [7]
>
>...simply gone!


What one was expecting from Prof. McCarthy to say?  Better yet,
what one could have expected from the Ottoman rulers different
after Armenianian revolts during their war with
Russians?  A kiss on Armenian's cheeks as a "thank you" for what 
they have done.  Like every reasonable and sound minded government, 
Ottomans decided to resettle Armenians elsewhere by thinking their
isolation would prevent another possible trial of theirs 
in the near future.  Who could blame the Ottoman decision after what 
the Armenian leaders and their bandits have done in Van?  Whoever 
thinks otherwise may try to besiege Boston tomorrow and see 
how would be the American Government reaction to such revolt 
even there is no cold war situation anymore.

Cengiz Akgun
Xref: sparky soc.culture.turkish:4172 talk.politics.mideast:10691 talk.politics.soviet:3404 soc.culture.soviet:3043 soc.culture.greek:3289 soc.culture.europe:3708