HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: ose@symcom.math.uiuc.edu (David T. Ose)
Subject: Re: References of Christianity
Organization: Math Dept., University of Illinois at Urbana/Champaign
Distribution: na
Date: Fri, 24 Jul 1992 22:02:35 GMT

I really dislike these "comments on some comments on some comments" posts, 
but here goes.

In article <1992Jul18.150321.20958@news.iastate.edu> trump@iastate.edu (Jennifer M Trumpy) writes:
>In article <12310@ecs.soton.ac.uk> lm89@ecs.soton.ac.uk (McIlhoney L) writes:
>>In <1992Jul16.194833.22022@wam.umd.edu> mrmuon@next18pg2.wam.umd.edu (Eli John Hawkins) writes:
>
>>Christians are also supposed to be against superstition.  It was
>>originally the Christian church that established places of learning
>>through the monasteries and later the universities.  I was originally
>>an atheist, but at the age of 17 I discovered a large body of historical
>>evidence, which overturned my (rather hysterical) rejection of Christianity
>>as a child.  What the Doctor rejected in "The Daemons" was a belief
>>in witchcraft - which the church also rejects (though it does acknowledge
>>it to contain potential danger).
>
>Ha. Thank you for giving me a good laugh. The only reason the church ever set
>up places of learning was because they were trying to cover their asses after
>setting off a war that killed millions(the holy war and the dark ages). The
>only historical evidence for religion is a small, shattered tablet found in
>the Dead Sea. Anything is else just something the occurred that people have
>twisted until it matches their beliefs.
>
Do you have any historical evidence for your theory of the church's role 
in founding places of education?  What do you mean by "the holy war and 
the dark ages"?  First of all, the medieval period was hardly the 
intellectual wasteland that you seem to think it was.  Second, are you 
implying some holy war caused the "dark ages"?  The medieval period 
began as the Roman Empire fell, leaving a vast political void.  The church 
helped fill the need for some order in society.  I am not trying to 
defend everything the church did in that time (being run by humans, it 
was and is sinful), but to blame the church for "the dark ages" is desparate 
rhetoric with little or no justification.  

Speaking of historical evidence, for someone who talks about it, 
you really should brush up on what you are talking about.  
I assume you are referring to the Dead Sea scrolls (not tablet) of which 
there are literally hundreds, perhaps thousands.  So many that, more than 
forty years after their discovery, researchers are still working on 
reconstructing the manuscripts.  Historical evidence also includes extant 
correspondence and histories written by Romans in the first century AD.  
They were non-Christians writing about this new religious group that was 
very different from the Roman, Greek and Egyptian cults that were common 
at the time.  
>
>Frank Trumpy
>trump@iastate.edu
>

David Ose
ose@symcom.math.uiuc.edu
From: joe.siegler@satalink.com (Joe Siegler)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.drwho
Subject: "SHADA" Video
Date: 26 Jul 92 10:34:00 GMT
Article-I.D.: satalink.2059.1078.uupcb
Reply-To: joe.siegler@satalink.com (Joe Siegler)
Organization: SataLink Info Systems - Huntingdon Valley, PA - 215-364-3324

To: scottg@amiganet.chi.il.us

SG|  I received my "SHAD" Video from the UK Thursday and had it converted this
  |morning.  I just finished viewing it and it lived up to all my expectations.
  |Douglas Adams is a brilliant writer, and in my opinion one of DW best.  I don't
  |understand what all the fuss was about this story - "SHADA" was not only the
  |pest story of season 17, but one T. Bakers best DW stories.

I've been saying this for years.    Having it on tape before this was 
really an experience.   Watching it with no special effects, or 
anything was a real ordeal at times.    But I know what you're saying 
about the story.   It's really nice.
---
 . 1st 1.00 #1051s . I remember when Saturns were rockets, not cars.
                                                                                                                
Newsgroups: rec.arts.drwho
From: dcpiii@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (pawlak dan)
Subject: Re: References of Christianity
Organization: University of Illinois at Urbana
Date: Sun, 26 Jul 1992 20:07:41 GMT

norbeck@mira.bucknell.edu (nancy norbeck `93) writes:



>Does this thread have even the *slightest* bit to do with Doctor Who 
>anymore?  


>If I wanted theological debate, I'd read talk.religion.misc.

I agree completely. Why don't you guys calm down just a bit...just repeat to
yourself: "It's just a show, I should really just relax..." 
thank you 
"...what do ya think sirs???"
Dan Pawlak send all hate mail to dcpiii@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu
From: jblum@hamlet.umd.edu (Hi ho -- Kermit the Frog here...)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.drwho
Subject: Re: Resurrection of the Daleks w/o sound effects?
Keywords: Resurrection Daleks
Date: 21 Jul 92 17:40:36 GMT
Organization: University of Maryland, College Park

In article <83958@netnews.upenn.edu> jneff@eniac.seas.upenn.edu (Joseph D. Neff) writes:
>	I just saw Resurrection (for those like me who get confused about
>R* of the Daleks, this was the Davison story) taped from Saturday's showing
>on NJN.  I noticed a lack of sound effects for ray-guns, explosions, and
>the TARDIS door.  Also, no incidental music.  Though it seemed rather
>strange at the time, at least we got some insight into what the actors
>really hear on the set.  Anyone know what happened to the distribution of
>this story?
>			--Joe

Here we go again.  This should really be in the FAQ.  RotD was originally
broadcast in Britain as two forty-five minute episodes (because of the
scheduling of the Winter Olympics).  When Lionheart cobbled the episodes
together into movie format, instead of the actual second half they mistakenly
edited in a "work print" of that episode.  That's the print used inside the
BBC as a guide for music composers, et cetera.  This print, without sound
effects or music, was mistakenly sent out to America.

After about five years, Lionheart corrected its mistake and started sending
out the finished episode. but the old version still crops up on occasion.
If you can, try contacting NJN to tell them about the mistake, and maybe
ring up Lionheart while they're at it.  This is a problem that should
really have been fixed by now.

And to defuse the inevitable other query which follows this one -- part one
of "The Brain of Morbius" is also missing sound effects.  The original
broadcast of part one included a scene where an alien gets its head chopped
off.  When the self-appointed guardian of TV Mary Whitehouse complained,
as she was often to do during the '70s, the offending moments were snipped
from the episode before the next batch of sales to America.  Only thing is --
do I hear an echo? -- they made the cut on a work print and sent this one
overseas, as well as editing it into the movie version.  I've only seen
the version with music and effects once, back in the early '80s; it might
not even exist any more.

Those two mangled episodes are sterling examples of the wonderful services
Lionheart provides for Whovians.  :-)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.drwho
From: markc@hydra.maths.unsw.EDU.AU ()
Subject: Re: References of Christianity
Organization: school of Mathematics UNSW
Date: Tue, 21 Jul 1992 02:48:07 GMT

> 
{Somebody, whose name I lost, writes:

>Well how about the way that you've just twisted the early history of Christi-
>anity? FYI, The HOLY WAR (I assume you mean the First Crusade here) occured
>more than 1000 years AD! Blamimg the christians for the Dark Ages is ludi-
>crous. Contemporary Romans like Nero etc. preferred to make the Christians
>scapegoats for the collapse of the Roman Empire when it would've been much
>more productive to reform the corruption of the Empire itself. There is cer-
>tainly ALOT more historical evidence for religion than a "small shattered
>tablet". Guess you haven't heard of all the non-christian religions , some
>of which, like Hinduism, have recorded histories much longer than Christian-
>ity. But then, like you said, people, like you, are always twisting things
>around to suit themselves.

Before you talk about such things, why don't you try and find out what
really happened. Nero died long before the Roman Empire in the west
collapsed. Nero tried to commit suicide in A.D. 68. He was eventually
killed by one of his guards when he couldn't take his own life. The 
first persecution of the christians happened in A.D. 64 after the fire
of Rome. The christians were probably not distinguished from judaism at
that point, and provided convenient scapegoats when people started
accusing him of starting the fire. (Itself a vacuous charge). The
persecution is recorded in Tacitus' Annals", who notes that the christians
aroused sympathy for the cruelty of their punishment. They were torn apart
in the arena by wild dogs (Not thrown to the lions), and used as torches 
to light the spectacle. 

The last serious persecution of christians was under the Emperor Diocletian.
The Emperor Constantine adopted Christianity as his religion after claiming
to have seen a sign from god promising him victory in the civil war if
he adopted the religion. By the time the Empire fell in A.D. 476, the 
official religion of the Empire had been christianity for more than
one hundred years. It is a sad irony of history that the church which had 
been so savagely persecuted, became an even worse persecutor. Not only
a persecutor, but an instrument for the suppression of knowledge. Witness
the destruction of the library of Alexandria by the mob, incited by the 
Christian Saint Cyril.

This has nothing to do with the newsgroup, so perhaps we could move this
to talk.religion

Mark C.
>	pHIL



Newsgroups: rec.arts.drwho
From: trump@iastate.edu (Jennifer M Trumpy)
Subject: Re: Ambassadors of Death actor
Organization: Iowa State University, Ames, IA
Date: Sun, 26 Jul 1992 23:01:51 GMT

In article <9207261912.AA06913@quark.UMD.EDU> otten@QUARK.UMD.EDU (Neil Ottenstein) writes:
>I just finished watching the third Doctor story, the Ambassadors of
>Death.  I was wondering if people could place one of the actors.  He
>played the character Reegan and his name was William Dysart.  He looked
>relatively familiar, but I couldn't place where I had seen him.  So,
>what is he more well known for?

I may be full of complete and total BS, but if we are referring to the
fellow who ran the unit that the Ambassadors were contained in the
2nd time (The person who recognized Liz from a photo), he looked, and I think
he was, the guy who played the clairvoyant in 'Planet of the Spiders'. You
know, the guy who deduces what's in the package and is killed by the blue
gem? Unfortunately, my 'Planet' tape was destroyed the other day, so I can't
check. :(

>
>Thanks,
>
>Neil Ottenstein
>otten@quark.umd.edu


Frank Trumpy
trump@iastate.edu
Newsgroups: rec.arts.drwho
From: bv925@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Robert J. Corrigan)
Subject: The Net Is Burning
Organization: Case Western Reserve University, Cleveland, Ohio, (USA)
Date: Fri, 24 Jul 92 06:30:15 GMT


It disgusts me that 7 out of the last 10 posts I have just read
on this bulletin board have absolutely no relevance to Doctor Who
whatsoever. (I don't believe that Frank Trumpy killing himself
when he was a child or who burned the Alexandria library need be
settled on a board about a fantasy show.)

I came onto the net today with almost a hundred unread posts, and
I'd say only about 30 had any real Who-based debate. And that's
pushing it.

If both these threads don't stop soon, I will locate all contrinuters
to the threads, go back in time and KILL THEM MYSELF!!!

Fight fire with fire. This IS a flame.
-- 
Ace Quote O' The Week:
	"You're just an aging hippie, Professor."
(Sylvester McCoy was a hippie in the sixties)
	From Doctor Who, "The Greatest Show in the Galaxy."
Newsgroups: rec.arts.drwho
From: mrmuon@next08pg2.wam.umd.edu (Eli John Hawkins)
Subject: Re: time travel ?
Organization: Workstations at Maryland, University of Maryland, College Park
Date: Wed, 22 Jul 1992 18:23:39 GMT

In article <1992Jul21.221928.20640@honte.uleth.ca> tagg@hg.uleth.ca  
(Nathaniel Tagg) writes:
> 
>     I've got no problem with imaginary mass; perhaps 'experienced' mass  
could
> be defined as the absolute value of 'complex' mass (ie. times complex
> conjugate, then square-rooted).  This is a neat idea to throw into a  
story
> somewhere.  This sort of funky math happens all the time in quantum  
mechanics.
>     However, the problem with this conjecture is that space quantization  
does
> not work the way you suggest; a cartesian co-ordinate plane with tiny  
little
> grid sizes, and every particle of matter 'snapping' to a grid  
intesection at
> every discrete time interval.
>     Actually, come to think of it, it may look like that. (You're right,  
it's
> wierd.  I think some of the intellectual bigwigs like Hawking understand  
it,
> but they're not telling.)  I think the problem is this: it looks just  
the same
> in every frame of reference.  That is to say, as you speed up, the grid  
size
> remains constant with respect to the speed of light.
>     Let me see if I can explain so I understand it.  No, I can't.  (I  
just
> re-wrote this paragraph three times and it isn't clear.)  Let's just say  
that
> the grid lines (quantized space) bunch up as you get faster, making it  
just as
> hard to get one more increment closer to the speed of light.  Time does  
this
> too.  Or something. 
>     In any case, the point is that since there is no absolute frame of
> reference, there can be no absolute size of space quantization. So, no  
FTL
> travel.  (I know this is true; I wish I knew exactly how it worked.)
> 
> Muddled,

   The problem with an absolute space-time grid of that sort is that  
although the volumes of the grid blocks are Lorenz invariant, the shape  
isn't. Of course it has been seriously suggested that in the final  
quantization Lorenz invariance might no longer hold, but I am not fond of  
the idea.
   However I don't think that faster than light travel, or anything else  
concievable in special relativity is the real key to time travel. If time  
travel is possible it almost certainly involves general relativistic  
effects.
   Personally I think of the TARDIS as a bubble of space, which with time  
is a tube. It is almost seperate from the normal space-time continuum, but  
where/when it is materialized it is connected by a doorway bridge the end  
of which is shaped like a police box. Where/when it is dematerialized it  
is connected by a very thin bridge (shrunken by the relative dimensional  
stablizer).
Newsgroups: rec.arts.drwho
From: mwasserm@diana.cair.du.edu (MARC Y. WASSERMAN)
Subject: Re: other questions
Organization: University of Denver, Denver, Colorado
Date: Tue, 21 Jul 92 21:02:29 GMT

In article <Brr2pM.tx@acsu.buffalo.edu> v059jck9@ubvmsb.cc.buffalo.edu (Ronald S Russ) writes:

(Some deleted)
>stories such as the Three Doctors, Five Doctors, etc.  War Games was to me at 
>least, the best story they ever produced.  On some other questions now, what
>ever happened to Jon Pertwee and what was the deal with the hour long stories
>in the Peter Davison era.  Thanks much

Pertwee is still going strong and celebrated his 73rd birthday
on July 7.  He's been in several plays (though I do not
know all the names) and has appeared in several movies.
Most of his companions at the time are also still about;
I heard Katy Manning was doing a play somewhere in London
(does anyone know about that by the way?)

In the Davison era, stories did indeed become shorter, lasting
fewer episodes per story.  Most of Pertwee's 26 stories were
4-6 episodes long.  Most of Davison's were only 4.  If
you check the original Hartnell episodes, some of them were
almost two hours long!  I think the reason behind the whole
thing was to put a good solid plot in less time and for
better ratings.  Personally, I prefer the Davison format
 to the earlier ones, but that's just me.

Marc Wasserman
mwasserm@diana.cair.du.edu


-- 
"So you're choosing to run from your own people in a rackety old TARDIS?"
		     D  O  C  T  O  R     W  H  O
				30 Years
"Why not?  After all, that's how it all started!"
Newsgroups: rec.arts.drwho
From: dennis@citr.uq.oz.au (Dennis Remmer)
Subject: As easy as Pi
Summary: etc etc etc
Keywords: 5Drs, Pi, Chess
Organization: Prentice Centre, University of Queensland
Date: Mon, 27 Jul 1992 00:56:18 GMT

Greetings,

Here's something that's been bothering me for ages.

Is their ANY actual relevance to the use of Pi in the chess-board security
sequence in the 5 Doctors. If so please explain the events of this
extract a little more clearly than they are portrayed in the show.

Thanks in advance...

P.S I can tolerate about 6 seconds of the Cyberleader's voice in Tomb be much
ado about nothing in these early Who stories, that is to say that there is 
a lot of filler acting and running backwards and forwards, and too much
extension of trivial sequences. I truly feel that Who improved markedly
with Pertwee, and just got better. Sorry to all Hartnell/Troughton fans, but
I can't stomach the farce. 


--
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
       Dennis Remmer - dennis@citr.uq.oz.au - DennisR@syacus.acus.oz
    Australian Centre for Unisys Software, Brisbane Queensland Australia
From: hennebry@plains.NoDak.edu (Michael J. Hennebry)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.drwho
Subject: Re: Time Lord Recognition (***SPOILERS*** for "The War Games")
Date: 27 Jul 92 15:23:37 GMT
Article-I.D.: plains.19379
Organization: North Dakota State University, Fargo, ND

In article <1992Jul27.024453.16397@usenet.ins.cwru.edu> bv925@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Robert J. Corrigan) writes:
>How did the War Chief recognize the Doctor in the Alien Lecture
>Room? The War Chief had not seen the Doctor in this form (there
>is a line to that effect later on) but still knew Who he was.

There is the possibility that the Doctor has such a distinctive personality
that another time lord would recognize him even if he had the physiogomy
of Margaret Thatcher.

-- 
Mike   hennebry@plains.NoDak.edu
"This dream is brought to you by Sharassin of Shan. Dreams and
communication wizardry of all sorts at reasonable rates."  --  Sharassin of Shan
From: jns@inoms.bellcore.com (Jesse N. Schell)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.cinema
Subject: Re: Ideal Film Schools
Date: 23 Jul 92 21:04:03 GMT
Reply-To: jns@inoms.bellcore.com (Jesse N. Schell)
Followup-To: rec.arts.cinema
Organization: Bellcore

In article <1992Jul21.212845.2089@cfa.harvard.edu>,
murphy@npri6.npri.com (David P. Murphy) writes:
|> 
|> 3. Film Art is not the individual experience the Sculpture or
|>    Painting is.  Film is a collaborative effort which involves
|>    numerous craftsmen.  These craftsmen, although deeply concerned
|>    about the quality of their work, still have to work steadily
|>    like anybody else.  This means taking the work that comes, not
|>    always artistic in nature, thus perpetuating the volume of junk
|>    that the Ideal Film School is meant to eliminate.
|> 

True just about 100% of the time, but there is the occasional shining
exception... Are you familiar with Mike Jittlov? If not, you should go
out and rent "The Wizard of Speed and Time" as soon as you can. High
art? Perhaps not. But the time, effort, and love that he puts into his
films is so real you can taste it. Does anyone know what he's been up
to since he released the full-length version of "The Wizard of Speed
and Time" (Five years in the making! Five days in the theatres!)?
Jittlov was a great inspiration to me.

-- 

 --------------------------------------------------------------------------
 |Jesse N. Schell                                                         |
 |Bell Communications Research                                            |
 |PY4 4G-316                                                              |
 |33 Knightsbridge Rd.                                                    |
 |Piscataway, NJ  08854                                                   |
 |Phone: (908) 699-3649                                                   |
 |  Fax: (908) 562-0104                                                   |
 |Email: jns@inoms.bellcore.com                                           |
 --------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: jzimm@ccwf.cc.utexas.edu (Joann Zimmerman)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
Subject: Re: Anglophily reigns at the new New Yorker
Date: 27 Jul 92 18:40:13 GMT
Organization: The University of Texas at Austin, Austin TX

In article <1992Jul23.234640.17793@morrow.stanford.edu> francis@oas.stanford.edu (Francis Muir) writes:

>I think that Tina from the Tatler must now be in command at the NYer.
>The veddy British cartoonist Ronald Searle has done the cover for the 
>July 27 issue. Gawd, it looks like a reincarnation of Punch.

 - Tina Brown is not due to officially take over at the New Yorker
until October, according to the NYT.

 - The New Yorker has run a number of Roland Searle covers in the
past. Can one be currently adorning my fridge?

(Apologies for delayed riposte, but my news server has been plagued
with digestive complaints - slowdown and/or cessation of normal
peristaltic function - again. Mostly I'm in a two-day time warp.)


-- 
"[Fiction's] function is not to detail the actual world, but to create
a parallel one. Image by image, phrase by phrase, through artifice and
evocation it must then make that world at once credible and meaningful."
-- Robert Stone               ...!cs.utexas.edu!ccwf.cc.utexas.edu!jzimm   
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
From: vince@cadence.com (Vince Gibboni)
Subject: Re: Great American Novel
Organization: Cadence Design Systems, Inc.
Distribution: usa
Date: Mon, 27 Jul 1992 21:26:38 GMT

    
    Funny, I always think of _The Great Gatsby_ as being _the_ Great 
    American Novel, sort of by definition. Maybe it's just the title.
    Is it just me ?

spb0457@zeus.tamu.edu (SubGenius) writes:
>
> You didn't put _Gravity's Rainbow_ up there in bold letters, underlined and
> with little splats ("*") around it.
>

    Yes, I can't say enough about _Gravity's Rainbow_ - just read a few 
    pages and suddenly the idea of reading absolutely _anything else_ 
    seems breath-takingly interesting. I brought _GR_ along on a flight
    to London once and had to put it down after about about five pages 
    because I suddenly realized just how fascinating those airline magazines 
    are, and the Flight Safety Booklet, and the ingredients on that packet of 
    Ketchup... Yes, I never truly enjoyed reading a packet of Ketchup
    before I found _GR_. And the best thing about it is that it lasts a 
    lifetime - to this day I still enjoy not reading _GR_, and I plan to
    not read it frequently in the future. In fact I find not matter how many
    times I don't read _GR_, I still find something new in it.


--
                                                         vince@gda.cadence.com
    The goal here [the U.S.] right now, it seems to me, is to train intelligent,
    well-educated people to speak stupidly so that they can be more popular.
        - Kurt Vonnegut
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books