HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: goza@ted.jsc.nasa.gov (Mike Goza)
Subject: T/R mixing for switchless inve
Organization: nasa-jsc
Date: Mon, 6 Apr 1992 13:33:17 GMT

Hi again!  Our machines got upgraded to new operating systems about the time
I was ready to reply to your message.  Things haven't worked right since.
(I have been without an account for a week!)  By the time the machines 
came up, your message to me was gone.  Anyway here is the T/R mixing info
you requested...

I use a programmable mixing circuit throttle to T/R instead of normal T/R mixing
provided by the radio.  The reason for this is that most radios mix T/R based
on collective positions which when you do any inverted work, including a roll,
the T/R is mixed in backwards.  This causes obvious problems especially
when doing switchless invert work.  I have heard that JR radios have a "stunt"
trim which mixes it in correctly based on negative collective values, but
I have not tried it.  I have seen a lot of people work a long time to get it
correct though!  The correct way to mix T/R is based on throttle values because
the T/R is counteracting torque not collective!!  I first read about this idea
in an article written for an early IRCHA bulletin by Andy Law (?).  It made 
sense to me at the time, so I tried it.  Boy what a difference!!!  The T/R
became extremely easy to set and behave properly when inverted!!  I gave my 
settings to a friend and he had excellent results as well!

Here is how I went about it...  To begin with, I have a Xcell 60 and a 
Futaba 9VHP radio system.  Go into the programmable mixing section and mix
throttle to T/R.  Turn on XON so that the menu looks like
 "->THR->RUD".  This is on one of the "SET" sub level.  Go back to the main
programmable mix level.  Here is where the settings vary based on rotor 
rotation, power, T/R blades, etc.  Mine is set at R/U -20  L/D -2 with trim ON
and offset 0.  Thats it.  Make sure that all the normal T/R mixing functions
are turned OFF!!  I fine tune the settings based on flying experience.
Initially I set the T/R mix to match the normal mixing deflections and fine 
tuned from there.  Once it is set, which takes a tank of fuel, going from
inverted to upright and back again requires no tail correction.  The way I set
mine was to set the up side by climbing at a fairly good rate and adjusting
the up numbers.  Once that is set, then I would climb to a safe altitude and
roll inverted from a hover without touching the T/R.  Base on which way it
turned, I would adjust the down numbers accordingly.  It is all trial and
error based on your flying style.

The mixing works extremely well and is very quick to set.  It made my life a 
lot easier for doing inverted work.  Try it, I think you will like it!

Mike.

P.S.  I would like to hear other peoples comments to the method.  As far as 
      I'm concerned, I wish the radio manufacturers would switch to this method.
 
 

Newsgroups: rec.models.rc
From: fhage@virga.rap.ucar.edu (Frank Hage)
Subject: Electric Sailplane recommendations
Keywords:  Electric Sailplanes
Reply-To: fhage@virga.rap.ucar.edu (Frank Hage)
Organization: Research Applications Program/NCAR, Boulder, CO
Date: Tue, 14 Apr 1992 20:01:45 GMT


	After learning RC on a Goldberg Electra, I have the following suggestions;
(These apply to all of the similar models mentioned in previous postings)

1. Buy the Kits WITHOUT the motor/prop setup. (The non-Deluxe kits).
Performance with the direct drive ferrite motors is marginal.  Instead,
purchase a Master Airscrew Electric Flight Pack (~$25 mail order). This
is a ferrite motor system with a gearbox and a folding prop. Up
here above 5300 ft, I get about 500-600 ft/min climb rate for about
3-4.5 min on cheapo 6 cell packs using the 2.5/1 system. A direct fly off
between my beat up Electra and a new one with a $135 geared colbat system
on 7 cells (Same folding prop) showed that my cheap system
has about 200-300 ft/min less climb rate. He spent ~$250 for motor,
speed control, and prop, I spent about $30. He doesn't get 8X performance!.

You'll need to buy a few additional parts that normally come with the
deluxe kits; 20A car fuses and some spade terminals (I think that' what
they are called?) that slide over the terminals on the fuse (Kmart),
and the appropriate matching connector for the battery pack (A hobby
shop).

2. Use a simple on-off motor control system, consisting of a Radio
Shack 5A micro switch ($1.69) glued to the top of a servo. A servo arm
can cam-action against the switch lever. You should wire up the system
so the motor is fused and the leads are shorted when the switch is in
its off position so the prop won't windmill.  [Yes, I know the 5A
switch is under rated, but for $1.69, who cares if it's contacts die
prematurely. After at least a hundred flights, still no problems]. Use
12 or 14 ga "monster" speaker wire for all leads. This wire is pretty
cheap and available and has lots of fine copper strands. Many places
will sell it by the foot :-).

3. Break in the motor by running it unloaded on your battery charger
for 15min before you use it. ( A great tip I got too late :-( )

4. Have Fun! I think these are great planes for newbees like us.  I've
gotten much more stick time than almost anybody else at the field I fly
at cause I'm not chasing a high start or walking down the slope or
waiting for the right wind. The "slopers" used to snicker at me when I
showed up, but now I hear a lot of "Where's the lift?, go find some for
us." I've learned to thermal soar with my electric pretty painlessly
due to the fact I can afford to make mistakes, and go a long way in
search of lift. On no lift days, I get 10 min (+/- 3) flights. On
days with lift, 15++ minutes are typical. 


-Frank Hage. National Center for Atmospheric Research. Boulder, Colorado.
From: rbono@necis.UUCP ( NM1D)
Newsgroups: rec.models.rc
Subject: Re: R/C flight simulator
Date: 14 Apr 92 17:20:25 GMT
Distribution: na
Organization: NEC Technologies, Inc., Boxborough, MA

In article <1992Apr9.191831.1309@nmt.edu>, david@baervan.nmt.edu (David Fritchman) wrote:
> 
>      I hope this subject has not been covered in the past, but it
> came up recently in the office.
>      Does anybody know of a R/C plane flight simulator on
> microcomputers (preferably of the MS-DOS type)?  The typical flight
> simulator "games" show flight from inside of a cockpit.  What is
             ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ 
> being looked for is the simulation of the visuals of a model plane
> being flown from the ground, eyes about 5 to 6 feet (1.5 to 2
> meters) from the ground, etc.  Any information on this subject will


 It may not be the greatest thing for this... but I have used the Microsoft
Flight Simulator, but set the screen to be the view from the control tower.
This seems to simulate the view of controlling an R/C craft without spending
more money on an R/C specific flight simulator.  For those of you who have
a copy of MS Flight simulator, you might want to try this.

-- 
 /**************************************************************************\
 * Rich Bono (NM1D)              IMRICH              rbono@necis.ma.nec.com * 
 * (508) 635-6300                                       nm1d@nm1d.nh.usa.na * 
 \**************************************************************************/
From: ez001099@hamlet.ucdavis.edu ('Louie Louie')
Newsgroups: rec.models.rc
Subject: Beginner wants to learn about RC helicopters
Date: 8 Apr 92 09:12:21 GMT
Organization: Castilian LRC, Student Housing, UC Davis

Hi Everyone!

I've never flown anything by rc before but I would like to
get my own rc helicopter eventually (and hopefully soon).
I realize that helicopter flying is very difficult.  I
already know about the flight principles of real choppers
and I learn fast.

Does anyone have any comments or advice for me on this
subject?  Can someone suggest a particular chopper for
me?  Perhaps someone knows of a certain controller or engine
that works well for helicopters.

My plastic model of the Apache looks good but can't do
much.  I'd like to fly one sometime.  (Maybe I will build
an rc helicopter into a miniture gunship.  But then again,
maybe not.)

Thanks for any thought you might have on the subject.

Louie
ez001099@hamlet.ucdavis.edu
From: bloom@inland.com
Newsgroups: rec.models.rc
Subject: Re: 2 stroke vs. 4 stroke engines
Date: 13 Apr 92 14:13:29 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: Inland Steel Company; East Chicago, IN

In article <1992Apr8.144724.18563@rtsg.mot.com>, svoboda@rtsg.mot.com (David Svoboda) writes:
> In article <1992Apr2.174959.20657@pictel.com> santo@pictel.com (Santo Wiryaman) writes:
> |
> |4-stroke
> |--------
> | - Operates with larger prop at lower RPM which gives a pleasant
> |   (scale) putt..putt..putt sound.
> 
> Or, in another opinion, has an unpleasant lawnmower sort of sound.  Not
> really scale sounding at all.

Hmmmm, but a 2 cycle merely sounds like a Lawnboy lawnmower.  Do you know 
of any full scale airplanes with 2 cycle engines?
From: john@kennel.FIDONET.ORG (John Hamilton)
Newsgroups: rec.models.rc
Subject: Hamilton Hobbies
Date: 8 Apr 92 15:31:55 GMT
Organization: Fido's Kennel, Cupertino CA

Thanks to all who have been sending in orders or inquiries.
Its fun to see the diversity of interests, and I hope I am
being of help. There is one small problem, though. Many of
you are unreachable by return mail because somewhere around
ames the destination addresses are being read as unknown.
Some system administrator somewhere (more than one, probably)
needs to look at his/her maps once in a while probably. :-(
 
Anyway, when you netmail me, please include a daytime voice
phone number so I can call you if my reply bounces. Its
really agony to want to reply and being unable to, no?
 
Thanks!
 
John 

--  
John Hamilton                  uucp: uts.amdahl.com!kennel!john
DoD #0327   ToT #11            internet: john@f8.n143.z1.fidonet.org
ZX-11 From Hell.               arpa: john@kennel.FIDONET.ORG
She said, "Its either me or that ZX-11!" Too bad, I'll miss her.
From: robert@meryl.docs.uu.se (Robert Sundstr|m)
Newsgroups: rec.models.rc
Subject: Re: Rubber engine mounts?
Date: 10 Apr 92 10:22:43 GMT
Organization: UDAC, Uppsala, Sweden

I agree with the previous writers about the advantages with rubber engine
mounts. I have used them for several years and I have had no problems with
them. 
  One advantage that has not been mentioned is that the rubber mounts can
decrease the damage on your model if you hit the ground. I had an incident
a few years ago when THE aileron servo broke down (in spite of the rubber
mounts...). I managed to get the ship into a spin (the servo could move in
one direction but not in the other so the model ended up rolling) and
the model hit the ground in a bean field with quite low impact speed. The
list of damages was very short:
 o All four rubber mounts was cut off.
 o The engine cap was destroyed.
To summarize the story, I believe that if the engine had been mounted with
a stiff system the model would have been more damaged, for instance the
firewall.
  
  BTW, the servo that broke down was a Futaba S130 and the model used a
scratchbuilt Saphir from Wolfgang Matts design. The rubber mounts was
self-made but of the same principle as the Sullivan mounts.


 
  

--
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Robert Sundstrom
CS student at Uppsala University, Sweden.
Tel   : +46-8-367683	MAIL : robert@student.docs.uu.se
From: pfs@pslu1.psl.wisc.edu (Paul Schnettler)
Newsgroups: rec.models.rc
Subject: Newbie Questions
Date: 6 Apr 92 20:45:01 GMT
Article-I.D.: pslu1.1992Apr6.204501.28237
Distribution: na
Organization: University of Wisconsin Physical Sciences Lab

I've been a lurker for a while now...
I am new to the R/C arena, I used to fly CL .049 planes years ago.
I have just aquired a rx/tx FUTABA system from a friend. The equip.
is probably 5 or 6 years old and is an AM 27Mhz set-up. What is the
current FCC regs. concerning this Tx/Rx? Does it need to be converted
to FM or is that primarily determined by the local flying field?

Second: I am thinking of purchasing a Midwest Products Aerostar 40
This seems to be the favorite trainer in this area. Has anyone built
and flown this model? Are there any tips one could give me concerning
building this model? I have an OS .40 two stroker to mount on it. Will
it allow me to do a bit of aerobatics once I get proficient?
Thanks...
Paul Schnettler....no SIG yet!
From: Da-Hogman@cup.portal.com (HOGAN DEAN WHITTALL)
Newsgroups: rec.models.rc
Subject: Help with radio!  please.
Date: 7 Apr 92 23:49:08 GMT
Organization: The Portal System (TM)

I need help with my Kyosho Impulse II radio.  I think I need a new reciever.
Email me for more info.


Da-Hogman@cup.portal.com
From: malc@pyramid.unr.edu (Malcolm L. Carlock)
Newsgroups: rec.models.rc
Subject: Interested in building/purchasing BIG battleship model
Date: 15 Apr 92 02:12:21 GMT
Distribution: na
Organization: University of Nevada, Reno

"I have a dream..."  I've been thinking about attempting a LARGE (say,
canoe-length) RC battleship.  I'm currently a rank beginner in RC, but
I'm a meticulous model craftsman and I like to think that I have a
reasonable amount of mechanical/electrical/structural aptitude, and this
is a project I'd be interested in taking on.

Plus, I live near a large, mostly calm body of water with many enclosed
rocky coves, and I look forward to watching swimmers gawk at this thing
as it steams past the opening of their particular cove :)  (wonder if I'd
be violating any boating regulations.)

If anyone has had experience building/operating such a beast, and has
any advice on construction of the boat, powerplants, seals, servos, etc.,
I'd really be interested in hearing from you, whether via posting or email.

--
Malcolm L. Carlock                      Internet:  malc@unr.edu
                                        UUCP:      unr!malc
                                        BITNET:    malc@equinox
Organization: Ryerson Polytechnical Institute
Distribution: na
Date: Wednesday, 15 Apr 1992 12:08:55 EST
From: Farago, Anthony <ACAD8061@RyeVm.Ryerson.Ca>
Newsgroups: rec.models.rc
Subject:    Electric Glider H/W

Hello fellow RC modelers and enthusiasts.

My interest is in sailplanes, specifically building an electric.
The questions I would like ask is about using one of those
COMBINATION BEC ON/FF SWITCH AND AUTO-CUT-OFFS.

From my relatively inexperienced point of view these things
seam like a hot setup since they would give you on/off control
of throttle without a servo and eliminate the rx battery pack.
For an electric motor glider toggling control of the throttle
seams logical and the elimination of the throttle servo and
receiver batter pack would reduce weight and in turn increase
hang times.

But the question is once the Auto-Cut-Off has disabled the motor
how much time can you expect from the battery for running the
receiver and servos used for elevator, rudder and perhaps ailerons,
flaps and spoilers?  It would not be very impressive if you got
an excellent climb just to lose control after 5min of soaring.

Thanks in Advance.


Xref: sparky rec.models.rc:1695 misc.forsale:14073 ny.forsale:738
From: v129raaq@ubvmsd.cc.buffalo.edu (Richard T Ciesla)
Newsgroups: rec.models.rc,misc.forsale,ny.forsale,sunyab.forsale
Subject: R/C Cars For Sale
Date: 16 Apr 92 01:01:00 GMT
Distribution: na
Organization: University at Buffalo
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41

FOR SALE:

Associated 10L w/fibreglass chassis, full bearings, aftermarket fibreglass
rear axle, holeshot supercooler, T-bird body, Trinity Slot Machine,
Futaba Magnum Jr. w/Tekin Micro-receiver, Tekin 410s ESC, S148 servo, 
3 matched 290+ 1400 SCR packs, Protech 701 charger. Chassis is partially 
damaged, but still useable, i'm also throwing in a Graphite chassis that is 
useable for street running. The timer on the charger has been removed, so the 
charger runs continously (i took it out because it was a nuisance having to 
crank it back every 15 minutes)

Asking $225 or best offer, plus shipping

Associated 12LW, Graphite chassis, bearings, Nissan GTP body, stock motor,
Tekin 408s ESC, Futaba 132H servo, 3 matched P-170 4-cell battery packs.

Asking $175 or best offer, plus shipping.

Reply to:
	Rich Ciesla
	v129raaq@ubvmsd.cc.buffalo.edu
From: howie@intermec.com (Howard Kaplan x1696)
Newsgroups: rec.models.rc
Subject: Re: Mac Flight Simulator
Date: 15 Apr 92 15:44:31 GMT
Reply-To: howie@intermec.com (Howard Kaplan x1696)
Organization: Intermec Corporation, Everett WA

In article <QduG3h_00WB9QMXYAd@andrew.cmu.edu> mb7r+@andrew.cmu.edu (Massimo Bigliardo) writes:
>Does anyone know if there exist any flight simulator program for Mac?
>Thanks
>Massimo

 I assume you mean an R/C simulator. Ambrosia makes a nice one that handles
 planes (conventional and glider) and helicopeters.  It runs on the plus, SE
 and se30 and is not comaptible with the new LC nor II series machines.

 It is available from Ambrosia Micro-computer at 708-655-0610.  The PC
 version is due out right about now.  It also runs on Amiga and Atari.

 For PC users check out the new Skylark simulator. Currently only for helis,
 but planes are soon and it has an aircraft view mode (with or without
 instruments.) There has been some ads in RCM and the AMA mag.

 Howard Kaplan
From: bdd0066@zeus.tamu.edu (Bryan, kick the tire and light the fire, Duke)
Newsgroups: rec.models.rc
Subject: Re: R/C flight simulator
Date: 16 Apr 92 02:25:00 GMT
Distribution: na
Organization: Texas A&M University, Academic Computing Services
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41

In article <1992Apr9.191831.1309@nmt.edu>, david@baervan.nmt.edu (David Fritchman) writes...
> 
>     I hope this subject has not been covered in the past, but it
>came up recently in the office.
>     Does anybody know of a R/C plane flight simulator on
>microcomputers (preferably of the MS-DOS type)?  The typical flight
>simulator "games" show flight from inside of a cockpit.  What is
>being looked for is the simulation of the visuals of a model plane
>being flown from the ground, eyes about 5 to 6 feet (1.5 to 2
>meters) from the ground, etc.  Any information on this subject will
>be appreciated.
> 

MS flight sim 4.0 has a tower view (and a track view) that you can use.
It's sorta like r/c--but you really couldn't go straight from the sim
to a plane and solo.  It is fun/nice when the weather's bad.  Oh, by 
the way, you can set these view points to be anywhere you want.  above or 
below the ground.  

Falcon 3.0 also has the same sorta thing.  With this one tho, the
planes move *very* fast and can be out of sight in seconds.  The
visuals on falcon are better than flight sim, in case you wanted to know.

I am pleased with both of these simulators.  Both are good buys.

***HERE ENDS THE PRODUCT REVIEW BY BRYAN***

(bryan is not connected in anyway to anybody)

--bryan.
Newsgroups: rec.models.rc
From: mkfeil@bcrki9.bnr.ca ()
Subject: Re: Electric Sailplane questions
Organization: Bell-Northern Research
Date: Thu, 16 Apr 92 15:07:18 GMT

In article <2188@transfer.stratus.com> kvk@questor.sw.stratus.com (Ken Koellner) writes:
>current loss by doing high speed switching.  Some of these will let
>you use your motor battery)to run your rx through a circuit called a
>BEC so you don't need the rx pack.  Many people don't think doing this
>with airplanes is a good idea though.  If your motor battery
>castrophically fails (eg shorts and catches fire, it can happen), your
>rx will be dead and you will have an uncontrolable, dangerous missle
>in the air above your head.

I would not worry about this happening since it is very rare. Most problems
will occur near the motor. I have an electric sailplane with a Graupner
on/off control with BEC and auto cutoff. This unit will automatically shut
the motor off when the battery voltage drops below 5.5 volts. If the motor
shorts or is stalled by contact with the ground while power is applied, then
even a fully charged 6-cell pack will likely drop below the 5.5 volts due to
its internal resistance. I have had this happen several times, and the auto
cutoff simply activated, preventing any problems. I also have a fuse near the
motor which may become useful for 7-cell packs. I have never had to replace
it since the auto cutoff has always tripped first.

Another important note is that if you get a folding prop, it is imperative
that your speed controller or on/off switch has a prop brake.  In my case,
the Graupner unit I use simply puts a low impedance across the motor whenever
it is not on. This stops the prop and lets it fold, reducing drag
substantially. Even if you don't have a folding prop, it is good to get the
prop stopped, or slowed down to the point that its airfoil is stalled, to
reduce drag.

The weight savings of a BEC are substantial, especially if you go one step
further and use the Futaba ESC/receiver unit which combines all airborne
electronics into one small package.

Max
--
Max Feil                 
Bell-Northern Research    Internet: mkfeil@bnr.ca
P.O Box 3511 Station C,
Ottawa, Ontario, Canada.  - What do I know? I'm just a Nerd on the Big Ranch. -
From: miked@syscon.rn.com (Mike DeMetz)
Newsgroups: rec.models.rc
Subject: Re: Ambrosia RC aircraft simulator
Date: 16 Apr 92 14:25:28 GMT
Organization: Syscon International - Corporate Headquarters

ultra10@vax1.mankato.msus.edu writes:

>I have the flight simulator made by Ambrosia Micomputer Products for the mac.
>It is a great aid in learning to fly. My question is if anyone knows if there
>is a more current version that will run on the mac II series. I have tried to
>reach Ambrosia Microcomputer Products in Hinsdale, IL by mail but my letter was
>returned, no forwarding address was left. Did the company move or go out of
>business ? If they moved could someone please send me the new address ?
>thankyou --> Rob McBride

He may have moved but he was at the Toledo show two weeks ago. Is spending
all his time on PC version and hinted he may not develop other versions any
farther.
Newsgroups: rec.models.rc
Subject: RC soaring in the Antipodes
From: elec140@csc.canterbury.ac.nz
Date: 13 Apr 92 11:21:53 +1200
Organization: University of Canterbury, Christchurch, New Zealand

Our club had a Formula 500 soaring contest yesterday, which went so well I
thought I'd write a little about it. Basically, the rules are that you have 2
hours to complete 4 flights. 2 are precision - 2 minute flight for 400 points
(points off for under or over time) plus up to 100 landing points. The other 2
flights are 8 minute max's (1 point per second up to 8 min, then 1 point off
per second over) with 20 landing points for anywhere within the landing circle.
Each flight thus has a max of 500 points, and the worse score is discarded
giving a final score out of 1500.

Conditions were ideal, almost no wind, widespread weak lift, sunny and warm.
8 minute flights were being acheived regularly, although the lift was not
strong. One guy flying an Airtronics Legend did 8 minutes without ever going
higher than about 50 meters (apart from the first minute after launch).
Normally in this type of contest, a score in the 1300's is very competetive,
while 1400 is almost unbeatable. Yesterday, 1450 wasn't even good enough to
place in the top three, and the winner had 1498 points (a new NZ record I
believe).

The turnout was also very good, with 21 flyers competing. The down side was
three models badly damaged, two thru radio problems and the other had the wings
fold on launch (first time I've seen that happen, quite spectacular!). I also
damaged my wing mount doing a spot landing (I did hit the spot at 8.00 thou!-)
on my second flight, and couldn't continue.

--
*********************************************************
Chris Kaiser
Postgrad - Elec Eng Dept
Canterbury University
Christchurch, NEW ZEALAND

E.MAIL: kaiser@elec.canterbury.ac.nz
*********************************************************
	"When you're fresh out of lawyers
 	 You don't know how good it's gonna feel"
		- Al Stewart, 1988
*********************************************************
Newsgroups: rec.models.rc