HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: nss3@kimbark.uchicago.edu (Noel Steere)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
Subject: Re: Chop and chant
Date: 16 Oct 92 04:04:33 GMT
Article-I.D.: midway.1992Oct16.040433.22436
Reply-To: nss3@midway.uchicago.edu
Organization: University of Chicago Computing Organizations

In article <colinm.719180414@cunews> colinm@alfred.carleton.ca (Colin McFadyen) writes:
>  It sure seemed to work for the Braves in game seven but I don't
>see how a low key chant can get the players and fans excited.
>Watching the Jay's game, the fans were standing through the last
>inning cheering very noisily with every Jay's hit and A's out.
>
>  I think that the chop and chant may not be as effective as a
>rowdy cheering crowd when that 10th man is needed.

I dunno.  Watching the game, I was amazed at how intimidating the
chant can be.  I mean, the sound of 50,000 people, all making the same
loud drone, was extremely ominous.  I can imagine a hush over the rest
of Atlanta, with just the drone of the chant, coming from the stadium,
brightly lit like a bonfire, being heard for miles around.

Noel Steere                  |...of the Dave Rossing fan club
GM/Manager, New York Knights |Knights' Run Total: 467 Runs in 93 games
Internet Baseball League     |Projected Season Total: 813  Target: 1000!
nss3@midway.uchicago.edu     |HECTOR VILLANUEVA FOR PRESIDENT
                             |(Heck, the Cubs sure aren't using him!)
Make outs, not walks!        |OMAR VIZQUEL FOR VICE-PRESIDENT
(well, Joe *said* I said it!)|(Or at least a Gold Glove!) [Woof!]
From: demers@cs.ucsd.edu (David DeMers)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
Subject: Re: Weird day at the ballparks
Date: 12 Oct 92 17:16:49 GMT
Organization: =CSE Dept., U.C. San Diego

In article <1992Oct12.130731.28148@morgan.ucs.mun.ca> tconnors@morgan.ucs.mun.ca (Tim Connors ) writes:
>In article <1992Oct12.123054.8386@cis.ohio-state.edu> atchison@kazoo.cis.ohio-state.edu (Mark Atchison) writes:

>>>Jim Kaat mentioned Gibson's HR about 10 seconds before Alomar's blast.
>Did you notice ... that *every* play-by-play man claims to know what
>the hell is being discussed at a mound conference? ""Borders is telling
>Guzman not to worry about the runner, and to keep the ball low and
>outside." "Steinbach is just reminding Stewart that Carter has a
>tendency to swing at low-outside heat." I have heard this countless
>times. Maybe all catchers are wearing hidden mikes?

I remember seeing a mediocre baseball movie, "The Dizzy Dean Story"
or something like that which had a great scene.  There's a couple
in the stands and the guy is trying to impress his date.  The
catcher goes out to the mound and the guy tells his girl all about
how they are discussing strategy and blah blah blah.  Cut to the
conference, "Hey Diz, my uncle gave me a new shotgun - wanna
go hunting in October?" 

Now it's probably, "Hey Jack, my broker got me into a great
investment, want to have your agent talk to him about it?"...



-- 
Dave DeMers			 ddemers@UCSD   demers@cs.ucsd.edu
Computer Science & Engineering	C-014		demers%cs@ucsd.bitnet
UC San Diego					...!ucsd!cs!demers
La Jolla, CA 92093-0114	(619) 534-0688, or -8187, FAX: (619) 534-7029
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
From: costley@solo.eng.hou.compaq.com (Brett Costley)
Subject: Re: Braves in Fulton for '93?
Organization: Compaq Computer Corp.
Date: Wed, 7 Oct 1992 21:57:01 GMT

In article <16879887E.ISTRE-A@RICEVM1.RICE.EDU> ISTRE-A@RICEVM1.RICE.EDU writes:
>While watching last night's game, I began to wonder now that the Georgia
>Dome is finished, will the Braves play their games there in '93? What is
>the status as far is Fulton County Stadium is concerned?

The Georgia Dome is designed as a football dome - i.e. a baseball field
wouldn't fit.

>Several years ago, when the Braves were wallowing in last place and were
>drawing 10,000 or less for a game, many were critical of the stadium.
>saying it was a bad place to watch baseball. This year, the Braves drew
>over 3 million in the same ballpark and no one is critizing the stadium.
>It is amazing what happens when the team wins two straight NL West titles.
>While I have never been to FCS, on TV, it looks like a pretty decent ball
>park to me.

I think the complaints were mainly about the quality of the field not
that the stadium was not good to watch games there.  Now that the Falcons
no longer play there and the Braves are actually paying money to keep
the field up Atlanta has one of the nicest - if not the nicest - natural
grass fields in the majors (that is until the let FAMU/Tenn St play football
there in a rainstorm the other weekend).  After the Olympics the Olympic
stadium is to be converted into a baseball stadium for the Braves.  I 
believe the current plans are to then tear down Atlanta-Fulton County Stadium.

Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
From: drw3l@delmarva.evsc.Virginia.EDU (David Robert Walker)
Subject: Re: NLCS Game #5 at 9:41
Organization: University of Virginia
Date: Mon, 12 Oct 1992 20:17:54 GMT

In article <Bw0s59.4Gy@ecf.toronto.edu> hora@ecf.toronto.edu (HO ROBERT ANDREW) writes:
>In article <7519@blue.cis.pitt.edu.UUCP> psg+@pitt.edu (Paul S Galvanek) writes:
>>In article <1992Oct12.032828.9604@Princeton.EDU> niepornt@phoenix.Princeton.EDU (David Marc Nieporent) writes:
>>>
>>>>Once again we see that a WALK is definitely not as vaulable as a HIT.
>>>
>>>Once again, we see people setting up straw men.  Nobody ever said it was, 
>>>unless there's a man on first and he's slow.
>>
>>With all due respect folks, no one may have used the exact wording but, many
>>here have argued that OBP is a more important stat that batting average, or rbisetc and no matter how you slice it that argument - OBP > BA - boils down to
>>walks are as important as hits.
>
The reason OBP is more important than BA is simple. OBP tells you
how often the guy goes to the plate and makes an out; 1-OBP is
his out percentage.

BA tells you how often he makes an out during an atbat, but not
during a plate appearance.

Since the worst thing a hitter can do is make an out (or 2, or 3),
knowing how often he does this is VERY IMPORTANT. It doesn't matter,
for this bit of information, whether he got a hit, a walk, or a home
run. HE DIDN'T MAKE AN OUT, and that's what counts.

This is why many on this net rank Bonds and Thomas ahead of Pucketts
and Carter, even when Puckett and Carter have more hits and home runs.
Because they always have more OUTS as well, which is a stat no one
ever seems to report. (I don't have the numbers in front of me to see
who led the leagues in outs made this year. It seems to me Devon White
was leading the AL on September 1, but thats all I remember.)

Clay D.

Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
From: steinman@me.utoronto.ca (David Steinman)
Subject: Re: 15 Years of the Blue Jays
Organization: UofT Mechanical Engineering
Date: Thu, 15 Oct 1992 15:45:07 GMT

desouzmj@sage.cc.purdue.edu (Michael de Souza) writes:

>How many Canadiens play for the Jays, and their Canadien past time?

You Americains is soo picky.  Considering the number of Latin players
in MLB, maybe your American teams aren't so American anymore.  Maybe
we should put something about baseball into NAFTA.

If the Jays are really an American team, then why are the MLB marketers and
CBS ad execs pulling out their hair over a Toronto world series.  And why
have I heard so many times "uh, I'm a gonna haftuh root for duh Braves 'cos
I don't want no Canadien(sic) team to win duh Wurld series." 

It's very simple.  The Jays play in Toronto, Ontario, CANADA.  We get over
140 televised Jays games here, so who the hell do you think we'd root for?
--
Dave!
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
From: jpalmer@uwovax.uwo.ca (The Econoclast)
Subject: SDCNs and the enjoyment of baseball
Organization: University of Western Ont, London
Date: Wed, 7 Oct 1992 14:44:23 GMT

I received the following e-mail from a friend who does not have
posting abilities at his site:



Date:	Wed, 7 Oct 1992 10:37:00 -0400
From:	F0SH000 <f0sh%usouthal.bitnet@utcs.utoronto.ca>
Subject:
 SDCN Manifesto


SDCN,

     So when we are too old for my-dad-can-beat-up-your-dad or
I-have-more-money-than-you, we turn to well-even-if-you-have-more-
money-than-me-I-enjoy-mine-more.  What silliness!  Who cares how
many games someone goes to.  Would these people say to a blind
person, "You do not enjoy baseball as much as I do because you can
not see?"  What rude children.

     And of course as you know, in from a technical economic point of
view you can not make interpersonal comparisons of utility.  However,
if you use money as your metric, it is an empirical question of
whether the stat freaks or "purists" spend a larger fraction of their
income on baseball, attending games, buying Baseball Abstracts, playing
a fantasy game, etc.  Hell we could even count the opportunity cost of
time spent viewing games on t.v.  This would reveal who values baseball
the most.  Thank goodness that even the economics journals have not
yet sunk that low, yet.  Afterall, if someone did such a study who
would care.

     However I am glad that your responded to them. You might post
my question about blind fans to see if that will shut the "purists"
up for good on this issue.

-- 
  Posted for Jim Swofford by

  John Palmer    London, Ontario       Voice: (519) 661-3533     FAX: 661-3666
  reply to jpalmer@uwovax.uwo.ca       The Economics Institute for Journalists
  ============================================================================
  Slower than Cecil Fielder and John Olerud combined, whatever that means
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
Subject: <None>
From: ** Sender Unknown **
Date: 15 Oct 92 05:10:37 EST

		BRAVES WIN
				BRAVES WIN
				BRAVES WIN
				BRAVES WIN
				BRAVES WIN
				BRAVES WIN
				BRAVES WIN
				BRAVES WIN
				BRAVES WIN
				BRAVES WIN
				BRAVES WIN
				BRAVES WIN
				BRAVES WIN
				BRAVES WIN
				BRAVES WIN
				BRAVES WIN
				BRAVES WIN
				BRAVES WIN
				BRAVES WIN
				BRAVES WIN
				BRAVES WIN
				BRAVES WIN
				BRAVES WIN
				BRAVES WIN
				BRAVES WIN
				BRAVES WIN
				BRAVES WIN
				BRAVES WIN
				BRAVES WIN
				BRAVES WIN
				BRAVES WIN
				BRAVES WIN
				BRAVES WIN
				BRAVES WIN
				BRAVES WIN
				BRAVES WIN
				BRAVES WIN
From: ramprasa@argon.ecn.purdue.edu (Ramprasad Ramakrishna)
Subject: N  L  C  S
Organization: Purdue University Engineering Computer Network
Date: Thu, 15 Oct 1992 04:02:17 GMT



Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
From: claudius@leland.Stanford.EDU (Nelson Lu)
Subject: Re: 15 Years of the Blue Jays
Organization: DSG, Stanford University, CA 94305, USA
Date: Thu, 15 Oct 92 18:15:21 GMT

In article <Bw5H46.L50@mentor.cc.purdue.edu> desouzmj@sage.cc.purdue.edu (Michael de Souza) writes:
>How many Canadiens play for the Jays, and their Canadien past time?
>

None.  The Canadiens play hockey. :-)

===============================================================================
GO CALIFORNIA ANGELS!
===============================================================================
Nelson Lu (claudius@leland.stanford.edu)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
From: cosper@seq.uncwil.edu (Kit Cosper)
Subject: Re: Braves' Destruction
Organization: Univ. of North Carolina @ Wilmington
Date: Thu, 15 Oct 1992 21:35:32 GMT

dcbeck@indyvax.iupui.edu writes:

	[deletia....]

>Give it a rest.  The game was not over before Barry hit his home run.  Who says
>that the game would have gone the same if he had not hit the homer?  Maybe if
>Bonds got out Glavine would have pitched a shutout...but we'll never know. 
>Bonds is in a lose-lose situation with you.  You don't like him, so if he does
>bad he's a choker, if he does good it didn't matter unless it's a come from
>behind homer in the ninth inning.  Give Barry some credit.                             

	I have to agree 100% with this observation.  I am NOT a Barry
	Bonds fan and I think he deserves more credit than most 
	people give him.  Hell, it would take me a while to tolerate
	him even if he signed with the Braves! Personally I find him 
	to come across somewhat arrogant, but hey, I'm not a professional 
	outfielder who slaps 90+ mph fastballs 400 feet on a regular 
	basis, so my personal opinion doesn't count for much.

	He is a good player, and can swing a bat.  I don't think
	he'll get away from this choke stigma until he goes to the big
	dance and comes home crowned king.  


	Just my $.02

-- 
   Kit Cosper                        cosper@seq.uncwil.edu         
   PP-ASEL-IA                        AMA 31022
From: drw3l@delmarva.evsc.Virginia.EDU (David Robert Walker)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
Subject: Re: Designated Hitter Rule (was Australian Novice Asks Dumb Questions)
Date: 15 Oct 92 14:18:45 GMT
Organization: University of Virginia

In article <92287.153704RVESTERM@vma.cc.nd.edu> <RVESTERM@vma.cc.nd.edu> writes:
>
>
>what happens (in the al, with the dh) if you put a relief pitcher in the
>game, move the starting pitcher to second base and take the second baseman
>out? do you lose the dh? if so, where does the starter bat, in the second
>baseman's spot or the dh's spot? where does the reliever bat?

If the DH goes to the field, you lose the DH. If the pitcher takes 
another position in the field, you lose the DH; that pitcher assumes
the DH's spot in the lineup. The new pitcher coming in would be in
the 2B's spot.
>
>what happens if the pitcher and the second baseman switch positions, without
>putting in a reliever?

The DH is lost, and the P bats in the DH spot.

>what happens if the pitcher gets one batter out, then the second baseman
>pitches and gets the next guy out (with the pitcher moving to second), and
>then they switch places again to get the last out of the inning?

See above.

>
>does anyone know exactly what the anti-earl rule is? are you not
>allowed to pinch-hit for the dh in his first plate appearance?  are you
>not  allowed to use someone whose contract says "pitcher" as a dh?
>are you just not allowed to pinch-hit for the dh without losing the
>dh rule?

The listed starting DH must bat once.

>oh, i thought of one more thing... what if the dh comes in to pitch?
>does he "replace himself" in the lineup?

Yes. But as a pitcher, and the DH is lost for the rest of the game.

Clay D.
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
From: tedward@cs.cornell.edu (Edward [Ted] Fischer)
Subject: Re: Eck Chokes Again!!
Organization: Cornell Univ. CS Dept, Ithaca NY 14853
Date: Tue, 13 Oct 1992 18:59:26 GMT

In article <1992Oct13.172017.21055@ucsu.Colorado.EDU> exby@pogo.Colorado.EDU (|J| Exby) writes:
>darrell.crone@ozonehole.new-orleans.la.us (Darrell Crone)  writes:
>
>>oh come off your High horse, (or is it Chair???) Eck has posted numbers
>>that NO other releiver ever has, and deserves both awards..I'm sure what
>>ever team you Root for would sure like a chance to aquire Eckersley, then
>>would you dislike him so much???... Hmmm.....
>
>go back a little bit and see who set the AL record for saves dolt.
>sure aint the eck.  I didnt hear Thigpen getting any MVP / Cy young
>talk in his great year.  media builds up whomever they are
>fond of at the time it looks like...

Exby must be a stathead...  Being publicly insulting on the net.

Sure, Thigpen had 57 saves in 1990.  He also had a 4-6 record with
*eight* blown saves.  Eckersley this year had "only" 51 saves.  But
then, he only blew three.  And had a 7-1 record.

Thigpen '90	4-6 W-L, 1.83 ERA, 88.2 IP, 57-8 Sv-BS
Eckersley '92	7-1 W-L, 1.91 ERA, 80 IP, 51-3 Sv-BS

It's quite debatable which of the two had the better season.  But
Eck's team won the division.  Thigpen's didn't.  Personally, I think
that Eck's 1990 season beats both.  An 0.61 ERA, 48 Sv, 4-2 record, in
73.1 IP.  Anybody know how many (few?) blown saves?  He only gave up 9
runs (earned *and* unearned) all year, so he can't have had too many.

>I dislike him so much because he's part of the "a's with the attitude"
>problem.  he, ricky and dave stewart irk me.

That's your right...  But don't pretend that it is rational.

-Valentine
-- 
Make outs, not walks!					tedward@cs.cornell.edu
Clemens four Cy Young!
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
From: jpalmer@uwovax.uwo.ca (The Econoclast)
Subject: Truth in Scalping
Organization: University of Western Ont, London
Date: Fri, 16 Oct 1992 20:01:28 GMT

	This morning a student approached me after class, saying,
"Sir, I know you are a Blue Jays fan. About this exam tomorrow, how
would you like two tickets to one of the World Series games at no
charge?" 

	I reminded him that my stated price is $1 million in used
bills, emphasizing that a pair of tickets simply would not do. 
I didn't know if he was joking, but thought I'd respond as if he were.

	He then claimed that the tickets he had were going for over $1000
apiece and that if I were a true Blue Jay fan, they would be worth $1m
to me. I pointed out some theoretical problems with this definition of
"worth". Then a revised version of my article "In Defence of
Fair-Weather Fans" came out in the student paper at noon today. Good
timing. 

	In retrospect, I wish I'd asked him to meet me in my office to
discuss his offer in the presence of a colleague.

	Not that I mind scalping (not many economists do, I guess). I
am concerned, though, that he thought the two tickets might affect his
grade. 
	

-- 
  Regards,

  John Palmer    London, Ontario       Voice: (519) 661-3533     FAX: 661-3666
  reply to jpalmer@uwovax.uwo.ca       The Economics Institute for Journalists
  ============================================================================
  The New Economics: Overlapping Generalizations & Rationalized Expectorations
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
From: tedward@cs.cornell.edu (Edward [Ted] Fischer)
Subject: Re: Boston's outfield
Organization: Cornell Univ. CS Dept, Ithaca NY 14853
Date: Tue, 13 Oct 1992 16:51:25 GMT

In article <1992Oct13.044157.1593@oz.plymouth.edu> s_bean@oz.plymouth.edu (Shaun P. Bean) writes:
>
>Now there is nothing on the farm that is going
>to make this team contend.

Agreed.  The rotation, even with Clemens and Viola, isn't that great.
The bullpen is quite weak.  And the offense, while it will be much
better next year, has no star-quality players.  The Sox are at least
2-3 pieces away from contending.  (Meaning I think they are a .500
team with what they have now.)

>I hope they can trade Clemens, while he
>can still bring a great deal.  Soon they won't get as much for him and
>he alone isn't enough to contend.

Clemens probably has a few more good years in his arm.  While the Sox
might not contend in 1993, can you really say they won't in 1995?  A
lot of things can change in three years.

>I hope they do trade him.

Okay, propose a deal.  I suggested Gonzalez+Kurt Miller+Huson+Maurer
for Clemens, and was laughed at.  And I'm beginning to agree.  Clemens
is worth more than that.

So what would you expect in a trade?  (Keep in mind that this trade
can't *totally* gut the other team, or it won't help them either.)

-Valentine



-- 
Make outs, not walks!					tedward@cs.cornell.edu
Clemens four Cy Young!
From: paul@csd4.csd.uwm.edu (Paul R Krueger)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
Subject: Stung again!
Date: 14 Oct 1992 01:30:47 GMT
Organization: Computing Services Division, University of Wisconsin - Milwaukee
Distribution: world
NNTP-Posting-Host: 129.89.7.4
Originator: paul@csd4.csd.uwm.edu

Well, Jack Morris got shelled a couple days ago. I guess he was just pitching
to what he knew the score would eventually be :) Anyway, I must now come
clean! All along I've been a secret double-agent Dave Stewart woofer. By
appeasing the woofing Gods, (making claims that Morris was Mr. Clutch instead
of Stew), I have succeeded in my plan. :)

feeling rather silly,

--salty

Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
From: kirsch@staff.tc.umn.edu (Dave Heart Condition Kirsch)
Subject: Re: Lesley Visser (Was: Jim Kat...Announcer with great insight.
Organization: Daves R Us (Irkutsk division)
Date: Thu, 15 Oct 1992 00:03:24 GMT

In article <1992Oct13.210849.12062@hpcvaac.cv.hp.com> paula@koufax.cv.hp.com (Paul 'of rhyme' Andresen 'and glossy 8x10s of Noel Steere with small farm animals') writes:
>
>Hear hear! Dump Leslie Visser, as well as her male-bimbo counterpart in the
>other playoffs (I can't remember which bimbo is doing which league). At
>least we have achieved sexual equality in the bimbo derby. They are both a
>waste of time.

  Ya know, I couldn't have said it better myself. 

  The funny thing is, Dick Stockton will probably get labeled as 'colorful'
or 'cute' when he deserves the same label as his wife: BIMBO. Does this guy's
brainwave even register? Is his EKG flat? I'm still disappointed with Leslie
Visser, though; all series long I've been waiting for a 'special interest'
report on Carney Lansford and his new seqouia farm. Talk about being sexist;
think of how many at-least-semi-deserving women Leslie Visser's keeping from 
a job. (To quote Nigel Tufnel: What's wrong with being sexy?) 
 
  Lundy, 

-- 
Dave Hung Like a Jim Acker Slider Kirsch            kirsch@epx.cis.umn.edu 
"Blue Jays - break my heart again in '92"    Roberto Hernandez throws peas  
"I believe virtually everything I read, and I think that is what makes me
   MORE of a selective human" - Joe Average, baseball fan and media puppet
From: mcclure@wild.ucis.vill.edu (MCCLURE HAROLD)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
Subject: RE: why bother to watch the World Series
Date: 9 Oct 92 00:35:00 GMT
Organization: Villanova University
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.4-b1

I may have misled Bruce Hasch on a couple of matters. I do NOT believe that
home field gives a huge advantage; in fact, I tend to believe that yarn is
way overdone in general. I also am not a turf advocate par excellence. The
reason that I do not like the Twinkie Dome is that roof makes it hard on
both outfielders AND batters who are not accustomed to it. It's analogous
to the 1981 NFL season when the 49'ers could not run and did not have a great 
run defense either. Candlestick was criticized not because it gave a home field
advantage but it gave a HUGE home field advantage. EVERY ball park has design 
differences and you can bet that some of them are done to help what is 
supposed to be the nature of the team. But there really has to be limits here
and the Twinkie Dome is beyond the limits that would be seen as tolerable by
many people. 
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
From: cubfan@jessica.Stanford.EDU (Rick Casares)
Subject: Unbelievable!
Reply-To: cubfan@jessica.Stanford.EDU (Rick Casares)
Organization: Stanford University
Date: Thu, 15 Oct 92 04:27:11 GMT


Holy Toledo!

I've never seen anything like that in my entire life!
(On the winning end, of course!)

Thank you < Jim, for leaving him in there.

As soon as I saw that Chico Lind boot, memories of Bill Buckner
and Leon Durham went through my head. As I complained, "
"That's note fair.  No team should lose that way," I had 
a feeling it would be fate.

The World Series has been Saved!

Go Braves!

-------------------------------------------------------------
| cubfan@wrigley.corp.sgi.com                               |
| Rick Casares - The Ricking Ball                           |
| "Steve, I sure hope those cigars smell better next year." |
-------------------------------------------------------------
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