HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: holohan@mark.enet.dec.com (Mark Holohan)
Subject: Re: British Flags (was Re: The Welsh Flag)
Reply-To: holohan@mark.enet.dec.com (Mark Holohan)
Organization: Digital Equipment Corporation
Date: Tue, 22 Dec 1992 21:15:17 GMT


  
In article <1992Dec21.170903.8887@microsoft.com>, frankm@microsoft.com (Frank R.A.J. Maloney) writes:
|>
|>I'd like to add a little to the this thread, according my small,
|>amateur readings in vexillology:
|>
|>
|>The Union Flag is the Union Jack, pedantically speaking, only when
|>flown from the jackstaff of a ship, but no one expects general usage to
|>change because of that.

   The Union Flag should more appropriately be called, the Jolly-Roger.

                    Mark
|>
|>-- 
|>Frank Richard Aloysius Jude Maloney


--
*******************************************************************************

  Mark Holohan, DEC, USA        "Character is what you are in the dark" - BB
  holohan@epik.enet.dec.com
  
  The opinions expressed are not necessarily the opinions of 
  Digital Equipment Corporation.

*******************************************************************************
Newsgroups: soc.culture.british,soc.culture.celtic
From: hiscrp@nuscc.nus.sg (C R Pennell)
Subject: Re: British Flags (was Re: The Welsh Flag)
Organization: National University of Singapore
X-Newsreader: Tin 1.1 PL4
Date: Wed, 23 Dec 1992 23:46:00 GMT


Geraint.Jones@comlab.oxford.ac.uk (Geraint Jones) writes:
: In an uncharacteristic fit of seasonal good cheer holohan@mark.enet.dec.com 
: (Mark Holohan) burst forth:
: (  
:  )   The Union Flag should more appropriately be called, the Jolly-Roger.


	Didn't see that bit but note for trivia-watchers (and triumphalist
anti-imperialists) Did you know that the last time the J R was flown in
battle was by the British navy during the Falklands War?

There now, wasn't that interesting?

Richard Pennell History NUS
From: Trevor.Kirby@newcastle.ac.uk (Trevor Kirby)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.british
Subject: Re: More silly songs.
Date: 23 Dec 92 13:48:19 GMT
Organization: Computing Laboratory, U of Newcastle upon Tyne, UK NE1 7RU.


In article <1992Dec14.172705.4413@osf.org>, dbrooks@osf.org (David Brooks) writes:
>I really hoped I was going to be able to resist this.  Yes, I know, so
>did you.
>
>	We three Kings of Orient are
>	One in a taxi, one in a car
>	One on a scooter, tooting his hooter,
>	Following Ringo Starr.
>

We learnt it as

	we four beatles of liverpool are
	George in a taxi, Paul in a car
	John on a scooter, blowing his hooter
	Following Ringo Starr.

And don't forget the
	We three Kings of Leicester square
	selling womens underwear
	How fantastic, no elastic
	Why don't you buy a pair.
	
	
 Trev
From: nick@cs.hw.ac.uk (Nick Taylor)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.british
Subject: Re: Boxing Day tradition?
Date: 23 Dec 92 12:08:02 GMT
Organization: Dept of Computing & Electrical Engineering, Heriot-Watt University, Scotland

In article <BznzoJ.5u3@brunel.ac.uk> Alan.Holmes@brunel.ac.uk (Alan J Holmes) writes:
>Yvette wrote:
>>Can  anyone  give me an expanded explaination  of Boxing  Day   and what
>>takes place in England  today?
>
>Traditionally, Boxing Day is the day for parties.

and sport. Apart from these, nothing special happens today in most of the UK
and it isn't even a public holiday in Scotland

I'm probably quite wrong but I'm perfectly content to live my life in the
belief that Boxing Day originates from Cromwell's decree that presents should
not be given on Christmas Day. It seems far too easy to deduce that the day
after Christmas would be used for opening the boxes of presents and thus give
us another name for St. Stephen's Day but what the hell ...

Merry Boxing Day everybody,
Nick.

PS. I believe it's still illegal to give prezzies on Xmas Day, in England at
    least. 
Newsgroups: soc.culture.british
From: ekman@netcom.com (Crossly the Glad-Eyed Bear)
Subject: Re: haggis
Organization: Home for the Terminally Infirm
Date: Fri, 25 Dec 1992 19:13:14 GMT

In article <1992Dec25.070737.343@jyu.fi> masa@jyu.fi (Matti Sarkka) writes:
> 
>I had a pleasure to visit Edinburgh two years ago.
>During that trip I was served something called HAGGIS punch of times.
>I got to admit I liked the stuff allthoug I was told it containing mostly
>guts.
> 
>Because I liked it, and also because (I suppose) it is something really
>Scottish, I have tried to find out what HAGGIS is precisely made of, and
>also how it is made.
> 
>The problem is that here in Finland it seems pretty difficult to get to
>know these things. So anybody knowing the HAGGIS' recipe, please mail it
>here or to me. Also somekind of serving tips would be nice to know.
> 
>BTW, is there a better newsgroup for recipes ?

There's a rather revolting haggis recipe to be found in _Mrs Beeton's
Cookery and Household Management_, which I posted to rec.food.cooking a
while back.  Because of the entertaining mail that I received in
response to that, I'm reluctant to post it again.  I did mail it to
Matti Sarkka, however.  If anyone else would like a copy, for whatever
reason, ask me; I'll mail it to you.
-- 
Crossly the Glad-Eyed Bear              ekman@netcom.com
Home for the Terminally Infirm, Redwood City, California
Newsgroups: soc.culture.british
From: davel@ampex.com (Dave Larkins)
Subject: Re: Green cards
Organization: Ampex Corporation, Redwood City CA
Date: Tue, 22 Dec 1992 01:13:16 GMT

In article <1992Dec21.213202.21905@osf.org> dbrooks@osf.org (David Brooks) writes:
>
>Once naturalized one would tend to lose interest in complaining about the
>INS.  Except, of course, for passports.  Is anyone in a position to
>compare the godawful interface with aliens against that with citizens?
>-- 

This reminds me of the time I went for my Green card interview in San Jose. There
we were, Brits, Germans, Hispanics, Chinese etc., all lined up waiting to be processed,
with one individual in the line who was an American citizen who had just married
a Canadian lady and was applying for whatever work permit was required at the time.
As the only way to get as close to the front of the line as needed to be allowed
in to the appointment was to arrive outside the INS building at 2 AM., everyone
was in a pretty ratty mood by 3 PM when they started the processing. The young German
guy had already taken a swing at a Hispanic fellow for queue jumping. As things
progressed like this, with the INS toughs treating everyone like sub-humans (many
officials at this particular office were indicted at a later date), the American
fellow suddenly let loose at the top of his lungs "You can't treat me like this,
I'm an American citizen, I have rights". This official bully that had just been
giving my 12 month old daughter the scare treatment for crying (she had been sitting 
in her stroller for over 12 hours at this time) went over to the American and
proceeded to inform him that he had just the same rights as anyone else there, zero.
He then went on to explain that in the best interests of not having to come back
another day, he may want to keep quiet and not cause a scene. The whole experience
was very degrading for everybody, but I felt especially sorry for this guy for
some reason, perhaps because of his astonishment at the way he could be treated
in his own country by officialdom. But isn't that true the world over?

davel
From: davel@ampex.com (Dave Larkins)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.british
Subject: Re: English Tea Kettle
Date: 29 Dec 92 23:12:52 GMT
Organization: Ampex Corporation, Redwood City CA

>bob@jpl-devvax.jpl.nasa.gov (Bob Collinge 525-B126) writes:
>
>I am interested in locating a store (preferably U.S. West Coast) which sells
>English style electric tea kettles (115 volts), i.e the kind currently in
>vogue in England - tall cylindrical, not the older, shiny metal exterior
>type, which resemble ones you heat up on a stove.  If anyone is familiar
>with a store or a distributor in the U.S. or Canada that deals with such
>kettles, I would appreciate hearing from you.

Russel-Hobbs kettles are available at quit a few places in California,
I believe I saw one at our local Raleys, but not totally sure. We bought
ours at Best, a catalog store, if they are still around, they should
have them.

regards		davel
From: wilcox@vax.oxford.ac.uk
Newsgroups: soc.culture.british
Subject: Re: Happy Christmas!
Date: 24 Dec 92 11:06:29 GMT
Organization: Oxford University VAX 6620

In article <1992Dec24.053538.2897@netcom.com>, sue@netcom.com (Sue Miller) writes:
> In article <1992Dec23.155048.10981@vax.oxford.ac.uk> wilcox@vax.oxford.ac.uk writes:
>>> 	Gloria in excelsis deo,
>>> 	et in terra pax hominibus bonae voluntatis
>>
>>Which is in turn a mistranslation of something in Greek which was once upon a
>>time a quotation in Hebrew.
>>Still, a very merry Christmas to you all.
> Raised eyebrows...Hebrew?  Thought the NT was originally written in Greek.
> Isn't there a verse (or verses) which demonstrate that Jesus was
> himself using the Septuagint as his OT reference?
> 
I was merely hypothesising that the angels would be good Jewish folk and so
would be able to find a suitable old Testament quotation to enlighten the
shepherds. I think it unlikely that Christ was using the septuagint: I suspect
there weren't all that many 1st-century Palestinian carpenters who were fluent
in Greek. On the other hand the evangelists may have been referring back to the
septuagint. Who knows?
-- 

Stephen Wilcox             |   For Sale: Posts in British Government. Suit
wilcox@vax.oxford.ac.uk    |   outgoing American. Highest bids accepted.
From: ccsdhd@sunlab1.bath.ac.uk (Dennis Davis)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.british
Subject: Re: Robertson's Golly Badges.
Date: 23 Dec 92 11:53:43 GMT
Organization: Bath University Computing Services, UK

In the referenced article, casseres@apple.com (David Casseres) writes:
>I didn't know you had whining and wanking about "political correctness" in
>the U.K. too.  Pity.

No, I'm not sure that we have these precious commodities.  But we do
have derogatory sarcasm, which often appears in this Newsgroup.  It
always saddens me slightly when things are suddenly declared anathema.
Especially when the supposed reasons were totally invisible to me when
I was a child.  I get the feeling that something has been lost, but I
can't quite decide exactly what that something is.
-- 
Dennis Davis, BUCS, University of Bath, Bath, BA2 7AY, UK
D.H.Davis@bath.ac.uk
From: wilcox@vax.oxford.ac.uk
Newsgroups: soc.culture.british
Subject: Re: Fight against drug -- British way
Date: 30 Dec 92 14:45:39 GMT
Organization: Oxford University VAX 6620

In article <SHIBUYA.92Dec28231808@chute.bl.applicon.slb.com>, shibuya@bl.applicon.slb.com (Hiroto Shibuya) writes:
> 
> I would like to hear from natives that how this is accepted by general
> British public, and if it is really working well as these doctors
> claim.  I also appreciate if somebody could guide me to any written
> material about this program, preferably something available in US
> without too much difficulty.
> 
If this is happening I haven't heard about it. I think it would be a wonderful
idea, but unfortunately the present government tends to be a little
short-sighted and sees addicts just as criminals rather than as victims too. (A
recent report said that in one prison drugs were more readily available than in
the outside world.)

What is happening is that in a very few areas charities are providing free
needles to addicts to control the spread of HIV/AIDS.
-- 

Stephen Wilcox             |   For Sale: Posts in British Government. Suit
wilcox@vax.oxford.ac.uk    |   outgoing American. Highest bids accepted.
From: jmb@ukc.ac.uk (J.M.Bremner)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.british
Subject: Re: Banned: ``Happy Holidays'' [sic]
Date: 30 Dec 92 22:35:36 GMT
Reply-To: jmb@ukc.ac.uk (Mike Bremner)
Organization: Institute of Mathematics and Statistics, University of Kent

In article <1992Dec30.210833.7337@netcom.com> sue@netcom.com (Sue Miller) writes:

>The dictionaries I consulted gave "a day off work" as the first meaning 
>for holiday.  Given this, 'Happy holidays' sounds pretty generic to me, 

Ah, but . . . "holidays", in British English, means what you might
prefer to call a vacation.  So "happy holidays" sounds pretty silly to
me, since I'm not planning to go on holiday till next summer.  However,
if you insist, I'll be happy to regard any "happy holidays" wishes sent
my way as a pleasing transatlantic eccentricity, but should like to
point out that there's no need to stick to Christmas and New Year.  Here
are some other possibilities:

      4th January      Bank Holiday in Scotland (I'm guessing here)
      9th April        Good Friday
      12th April       Easter Monday
      3rd May          May Day Bank Holiday
      31st May         Spring Bank Holiday

At this point my university diary gives up, but there's a Late Summer
Bank Holiday to come (30th August).

Happy New Year?
From: inr@eccles.caltech.edu (I. Neill Reid)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.british
Subject: re: The history of the Scottish flag
Date: 28 Dec 1992 17:33 PST
Organization: California Institute of Technology
Distribution: world
NNTP-Posting-Host: eccles.caltech.edu
>From: crdunlea@rodan.acs.syr.edu (Christopher R. Dunlea)
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41    

>
>> is spoken in the halls of government in any of these places? I 
>
>It is generally considered that the purest form of the English language
>is lowlands Scots.

Uh, by whom? Please be more specific when you refer.
>
>> agree that Gaelic in Scotland is still spoken, but how many Scottish
>> Parliamentarians spoke on Gaelic? No one can possibly argue the
>> dominance of England over the other three UK realms. 
>
>Ah, yes.  England has dominated the Union, but nowhere near as
>completely as you imagine.

>Mmm. Yes. How many times did they raze Scotland? Along with Ireland? 
>I seem to recall Scotland rising up to fight for the two Pretenders, 
>Young and Old alike, and for James II in 1689-90. Guess we know who
>won that struggle, hmm?

Sorry, but it is complete nonsense to describe the jacobite rebellions
as England vs. Scotland. I suppose all those masochistic Presbyterian 
conventiclers and Covenanters just couldn't wait for another 20
years of harrying by the successors to Lauderdale, Charles II
and James VII. Much better(although still simplistic) to describe
it as Highlands vs  Lowlands + (most) English (and Irish)

>I admire your patriotism but where are your facts? I study the 
>formation of English hegemony and empire. That is what this is about. 
>Despite my feelings for my mother country I must realize that Ireland
>and the rest of the Celtic world got the shaft. Check out Nicholas
>Canny in _Strangers Within the Realm_, by Bailyn & Morgan.

 No question that the Highlanders came out with a raw deal - but
it's too simplistic to assign all the blame to English domination.
Fact is, after 1707, the power stemmed from Westminster, and, since
the English had the most MPs, their interests obviously dominated. But
they were not necessarily interests at odds with those of the Scots
paerliamentarians ( and land owners). Since ambitious and talented
people gravitated towards the centre of power, there was a fair degree 
of assimilation of other interests - and seems to me to be wrong to
describe things simply in terms of nationalism. 
If you want to be simplistic, describe it in terms of class.
 But then, I just read history

 Neill Reid - inr@eccles.caltech.edu
Newsgroups: soc.culture.british
From: "A.J. Janschewitz" <p00258@psilink.com>
Subject: Re: Happy Christmas!
Organization: Performance Systems Int'l
Date: Thu, 24 Dec 1992 15:15:08 GMT
X-Mailer: PSILink-DOS (3.3)

>DATE:   23 Dec 92 15:50:48 GMT
>FROM:   wilcox@vax.oxford.ac.uk
>
>In article <1992Dec23.091338.1014@sei.cmu.edu>, firth@sei.cmu.edu (Robert Firth) writes:
>> 
>> A mistranslation, not a misquote:
>> 
>> 	Gloria in excelsis deo,
>> 	et in terra pax hominibus bonae voluntatis
>
>Which is in turn a mistranslation of something in Greek which was once upon a
>time a quotation in Hebrew.
>
>Still, a very merry Christmas to you all.

And all the above notwithstanding, happy Christmas to those so inclined, 
despite whatever is appropriate for your situation.

Cheers ...
==a.j.==
New Here ...

From: erics@hpkslx.mayfield.HP.COM (Eric P. Solari)
Date: Thu, 24 Dec 1992 17:24:31 GMT
Subject: abort
Organization: HP Response Center Lab
Newsgroups: soc.culture.british


--
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Eric P. Solari * Hewlett-Packard Response Center Lab
               * 100 Mayfield Ave, 37MA
               * Mountain View, CA 94043
---------------------------------------------------------------------
email: solarie@mayfield.hp.com HPDesk: Eric Solari/HP5000/UM
(415)691-3058  tn 691-3058 
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Newsgroups: soc.culture.british
From: sasbmt@jjoyce.unx.sas.com (Bruce Tindall)
Subject: Re: An ENGLISH monarch??
Originator: sasbmt@jjoyce.unx.sas.com
Date: Mon, 21 Dec 1992 22:59:50 GMT
Organization: SAS Institute Inc.


In article <katherim.724629975@sfu.ca>, katherim@fraser.sfu.ca (Katherine Merle Mason) writes:
>Any ENGLISH monarchs?
>Even in some other country??

Elvis Costello, "King of America."
(Or is he considered Irish?)
-- 
Bruce Tindall, Core Testing Mgr., SAS Institute Inc., Cary, N.C. 27513
Newsgroups: soc.culture.british
From: dj@ekcolor.ssd.kodak.com (Dave Jones)
Subject: Re: Old British Films (movies, y'all)
Organization: Vonnegut Tent Rentals, Inc.
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1 PL7]
Date: Mon, 21 Dec 92 20:06:25 GMT

chorley@vms.ocom.okstate.edu wrote:
> Request for information about a couple of 1950s films, Ealing comedies, I
> think.
> 	1) Need the title of a film about a seaside pier that was reclassified 
> as a ship for commercial reasons.

Aaggh! I forgot the name.  It starred Alec Guinness and a host of loonies 
who played the various ghosts haunting the end of the pier.  The pier was 
registered as a ship (in somewhere like Liberia) in order to avoid 
demolition and make money selling duty-free goods.

> 	2) Similar film about a section of London that declared independence
> owing to the discovery of a charter granted by William the Conqueror.
>
That's easy, "Passport to Pimlico".  Starred Stanley Holloway and a lot
of the usual suspects.
 

--
||------------------------------------------------------------------------
||Dave Jones (dj@ekcolor.ssd.kodak.com)|Eastman Kodak Co. Rochester, NY  |
Newsgroups: soc.culture.british
From: frankm@microsoft.com (Frank R.A.J. Maloney)
Subject: Re: Banned: ``Happy Holidays'' [sic]
Date: 26 Dec 92 01:04:53 GMT
Organization: Microsoft Windows/DOS Users Ed Group
Distribution: soc

In article <1992Dec22.060515.1745@osf.org> sp@osf.org (Simon Patience) writes:
>In article <1992Dec18.211132.19133@microsoft.com>, frankm@microsoft.com (Frank R.A.J. Maloney) writes:
>> In article <1992Dec15.123843.13440@its.bt.co.uk> tjo@its.bt.co.uk (Tim Oldham) writes:
>> >In article <suplick.724377812@mikey> suplick@convex.com (Jean Suplick) writes:
>> >>Happy holidays!  ;-)
>> >
>> [deletion]
>> >
>> >I don't know what the fuck you celebrate in December in other parts
>> >of the world, but in Britain and Northern Ireland it's Christmas and
>> >the New Year.
>> >
>> >Wishing you a very Merry Christmas and a Happy New Year,
>> >
>> 
>> I'm sure all the British Jews will be happy to hear this.
>
>Why worry about the Jews? At least they have honiker (this is definitely
>*not* how you spell this) to play with but what about all the muslims,
>hindi, etc who don't have a religious celebration about this time of year.
>Let alone the atheists who everyone seems to ignore when it comes to
>talking about religious freedoms (see G. Bush).
>
>Let's face it, christmas is the celebration of a religious minority and
>shopkeepers.
>

While I completely agree with you, Simon, I mentioned the
Jews not as the only ones who are left out of "Merry
Christmas" but merely as a symbol for all the non-Christians
in any Western society, British, American, Continental, or
Canadian. Also, there is the fact that there are a lot more
Jews in my little slice of the great world than Hindus or Muslims.
About Buddhists, I'm not so sure. We atheists, on the other
hand, are as scarce as hens' teeth.

-- 
Frank Richard Aloysius Jude Maloney
	"Well, I'm a little muddled." -- Glinda
Newsgroups: soc.culture.british
From: tjo@its.bt.co.uk (Tim Oldham)
Subject: Re: Banned: ``Happy Holidays'' [sic]
Organization: BT Group Computing Services, Birmingham, UK
Distribution: soc
Date: Wed, 23 Dec 92 11:05:26 GMT

In article <1992Dec22.060515.1745@osf.org> sp@osf.org (Simon Patience) writes:
>Why worry about the Jews? At least they have honiker (this is definitely
>*not* how you spell this) to play with but what about all the muslims,
>hindi, etc who don't have a religious celebration about this time of year.
>Let alone the atheists who everyone seems to ignore when it comes to
>talking about religious freedoms (see G. Bush).
>
>Let's face it, christmas is the celebration of a religious minority and
>shopkeepers.

I'm quite willing to use whatever words those other people think fitting to wish
them well in their celebrations. This does not excuse the pathetic use of ``Holidays''
when the recipient is celebrating Christmas. 

My wife and I have received Christmas cards from people of all races and religions,
of course. 

Happy Christmas,

	Tim.
-- 
Tim Oldham, BT Group Computing Services.       tjo@its.bt.co.uk
``Sounds good to me'' 
Newsgroups: soc.culture.british
From: david@postman.gr.osf.org (David George)
Subject: Re: U.K. --> N. American voltage transformers and plugs
Keywords: voltage transformers, plug adaptors
Organization: OSF RI Grenoble
Date: Mon, 21 Dec 1992 12:05:19 GMT

In article <BzIx9p.IAK@world.std.com>, MDuPree@world.std.com (Micky DuPree) writes:
|> A contact in the U.K. warned me that 240v --> 120v voltage transformers,
|> such as one might use to run a North American appliance off of U.K. wall
|> power, tend to "short out, smoulder, and catch fire."

Well they will if your tight fisted and try to run a 300 watt fridge from
a 150 watt transformer.  Maybe he's talking about the electronic devices
for cutting the voltage, the only reason they won't work is poor quality
or you're overloading ?

On the subject of plugs, by an American style extension lead and fit a U.K.
plug when you get there, not exactly tricky, eh ?  You can also buy adapters
for two and three pins U.S. plugs, I have one.

David.
From: bandu@acsu.buffalo.edu (Jagath Samarabandu)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.sri-lanka
Subject: Forwarded article
Date: 21 Dec 92 15:45:24 GMT
Reply-To: CRAJAPAK%KNOX.BITNET@uicvm.uic.edu
Organization: UB

Please direct any replies to Chaminda. Please don't hit 'R' as it will send
mail to me. - Bandu

-------------------------------------------------
Date: Fri, 18 Dec 1992 22:19 CST
From: Chaminda Rajapakse <CRAJAPAK%KNOX.BITNET@uicvm.uic.edu>
Subject: Please post this on S-C-SL


This is the first time I am writing to S-C-SL. I read everything  that every
one else writes  but never had the urge to write back. That was until I saw
some loser called Sarath write something that I just had to show my point of
view.
This guy who most probably was born in Sri Lanka,  lived there and went to
school there for the better part of his life comes to Canada and prides him
self on the fact that he got out of the "hell=whole of lanka".
So to you Sri Lanka is a hell eh? What are you? a Canadian! Well ask the white
guy next to you what he considers you as.
I am not questioning your right to say that, but what I am asking is why cant
loser like you see the better aspects of Sri Lanka and its society. I have
doubts about what people like you gain by comming to the west but I have no doub
   t
about what you have lost. Your Identity. Go talk to a fifth generation Italian
or a second generation Polish or an Irish, they will be proud the of the fact
that they are originally from those countries.
So to you  Lanka is hell and I suppose you think that the great US of A or
Canada is going to take care of you. Good luck to you buddy. I just hope that
if I ever bring up kids in this country they don't turn out to be lost,
clueless individuals without an identity like dear ol Sarath.
Newsgroups: soc.culture.sri-lanka