From: briand@anasaz (Brian Douglass)
Newsgroups: talk.politics.misc
Subject: Re: Colin Powell's Record (was Bush giving up? (Colin Powell))
Date: 4 Sep 92 01:00:33 GMT
Organization: Anasazi, Inc.  Phoenix, Az

In article <Sep.3.00.22.17.1992.12892@math.rutgers.edu> cromar@math.rutgers.edu (Scott Cromar) writes:
>tedrick@triangle.Berkeley.EDU (Tom Tedrick) writes:
>
[deleted stuff]
>
>Unless you get into urban, house-to-house fighting, I don't see that
>the end of the fighting should have been extended for any more than
>perhaps a day.  

In many parts of the KTO, the Iraqis did violate the cease-fire, and
promptly got wiped out.  As one commander put it "An entire division wiped
out, and I've only got 3 wounded.  I don't know how to explain it."  Any
fighting beyond the cease fire would have been, and was a blood-bath for
the Iraqis.  Such destruction would have not have done any one good.

>In this case, I think that Bush has taken an unfair
>hit.  It is silly to realistically think that Saddam could not have
>hidden himself indefinitely from the allied forces even if the
>fighting had continued.  I don't see what possible good would have
>come from extending the fighting.

To "get Saddam" would have meant rolling all the way to Baghdad, fighting
house to house against the entire Iraq population.  Taking Kuwait was one
thing, taking Iraq something entirely else.  There was no mandate by the UN
authorizing such an action, and such wholesale slaughter of Arabs would
have been unacceptable to our Allies.  Afterall, no Arab country has
invaded another, since I don't know how long.  Christendom can hardly make
the same claim.  We couldn't have gotten him unless we took the whole country,
and he just isn't worth that much.

>Having said that, I should point out that I have consistently
>criticized the administration for several aspects of the Gulf War:
>
>1)  When Iraq first started massing troops on the Kuwaiti border,
>Washington should have sent a strong signal that aggression would not
>be tolerated.  Instead, they sent Glaspie with a message that by all
>accounts was unclear and which Saddam took as a green light for
>invasion.  The war should never have happened.

Saddam had moved his troops several times before just like this, and
nothing happened.  He gave his word to Hosni Mubarak that he was just saber
rattling and that he wasn't going to do anything.  Mubarak passed this
along to Bush and Baker, and said this was an Arab problem and they would
handle it.  Glaspie, who--I was surprised to learn--is a career Foreign
Service officer and not a political appointee.  She had spent over 20 years
in the Middle East and was a highly respected diplomat.  Her response was
that dictated by Washington, and which she concurred with.  Her mistake, if
you want to call it that, is that she had nothing to threaten Hussein with,
except closing the Embassy.  An action, in diplomatic circles, that is as
unthinkable as dropping atomic bombs.

For further reading I suggest the July issue of Atlantic Monthly, the
article is titled Tales from the Bizarre, about the US FS in the Middle
East.  Yes the war shouldn't have happened, but the failures are much more
complex than the popular press espouses.

>
>2)  Schwartzkopf should have been allowed to capture the tanks within
>reach of his troops rather than allowing the Iraqis to withdraw them.

Easier said than done.  In general, you shoot first, and stop only when the
order is given, or you see the hands/white flag go up.  Tactically, there
was a blocking force shielding a retreating column moving perpendicular to
the front.  Such a blocking force is intended to fight, not give up.

>I realize that this was an effort to keep Iraq strong enough to
>counterbalance Iran within the region, but the tanks could have been
>returned later if necessary after evidence of good faith on the part
>of the Iraqis.
>
>3)  Allied forces should have enforced a ban on the use of helicopters
>against the Shiites and Kurds.  

There was no ban.  During meetings between Schwartzkopf and the Iraqis, he
said okay to helicopters, thinking they would use them to evacuate the
woulded.  How wrong he was.  In later interviews he said, "They snookered
me on that one."

>I realize that this was an effort to
>keep Iraq in one piece, but it has led to a human rights tragedy
>which could easily have been predicted given Saddam's past history.
>
>--Scott


-- 
"... For I have sworn upon the alter of god, eternal hostility against
every form of tyranny over the mind of man."  Thomas Jefferson
Brian Douglass		briand@anasazi.com 	602-870-3330 X657