From: atovorni@engr.UVic.CA (dreas)
Subject: Re: Credibility and Trueness
Reply-To: atovorni@engr.UVic.CA
Organization: University of Victoria, Victoria, BC, Canada
Date: Sun, 24 Jan 93 00:16:51 GMT

In article 93Jan23114939@myria.cs.umn.edu, ted@cs.umn.edu (Ted Stockwell) writes:
>In article <1993Jan23.005205.18771@sol.UVic.CA> atovorni@engr.UVic.CA (dreas) writes:
>>   Somebody mentioned that Ed cannot imagine how anyone can
>>   be happier outside of a relationship that within one 
>>   BECAUSE he himself is so unhappy while not in one.
>>
>>   Get this: If you are unhappy while not in a relationship, what 
>>   can make you so sure that you'd be happy in a relationship?
>
> Just because Ed is happier in a relationship than outside of one does
>not mean that others will be.  However, just because you are happy
>whether or not you are in a relationship does not mean that Ed or
>anyone else will be.  Different people have different needs and we
>will not all respond in the same way.

We MUST get into some Ed history here. He has on occasion admitted to
never having had a relationship. How does he know what a relationship 
would be like? He only imagines the grass to be greener over his
neighbor's septic tank.

>>   IMNSHO, happiness is not something derived exclusively from
>>   the people around oneself, the relationship that one is involved
>>   in, or one's surroundings.
>
>true, but it helps to at least have one of the three going for you.

Agreed, but surroundings and people in those surroundings are quite
easily changed. If you don't enjoy being in a particular bar, for
example, got to the place down the street.

It's a lot harder to change things if you don't like the people you
work with on the job, day in and day out.

>>   True happiness with anything has to come from within oneself.
>>   When this is understood deeply, one can become happier by 
>>   taking delight in the little things in life that most of us
>>   ignore. Unfortunately, there are many unhappy people BECAUSE
>>   they walk around through life with blinders on.
>
>gee this makes sense.  "Today I lost my job, totalled my car, my
>friends moved away and my cat just died, but that was a delightful
>little flower that I just stepped on so I guess I'll be happy and
>content!"

Not exactly. It's more like taking long-term things (like being
outside of a relationship), learning to worry less about "THE
PROBLEM" and just getting on with your life. Instead of remaining 
all tense about being alone, it's possible to become more objective
by distracting your negative thoughts by completely different 
things, not connected to what worries you. Naturally, If all the
bad things that you describe were to happen to ANYONE, then they
would have a right to feel bad about it. 

The trouble is that people blame themselves for things that go
wrong in their lives, and brood about the lost job, the totalled
car, the absent friends and the dead cat. These broodings can go 
on for months: I know because I personally had things like that 
happen to me in rapid succession. These days, shit still hits the
fan, but I duck more often when it comes my way than I used to. 

>>   I believe that folks who are inherently content with life
>>   are EQUALLY content within a relationship and without one.
>
>Possibly true, but how do you become content in the first place,
>regardless of what is actually happening in your life?  

It takes a considerable amount of working on yourself emotionally.
I don't claim to be an expert at being content all the time, but I
must admit that I am content and at peace with myself more of the 
time than I was, say, five years ago.

>>   I have been in both situations and have trained myself to be
>>   happy on the whole BECAUSE it just feels better than self pity.
>
>Its  great if you can throw a mental switch and make yourself happy.

It's more like pulling a bulldozer up a 15% grade than throwing a switch.
If it were as easy as throwing a switch, then we'd all be very much at
peace, AND drugs are not the answer.

>Not everyone can simply ignore painful situations.  What about
>simple loneliness?

Loneliness is the easiest problem to get rid of. You can be lonely
in a stadium full of football fans cheering on a game, or you can
be *not* lonely all by yourself masturbating. Being lonely is merely
a mindset. It is the way in which people perceive themselves that
makes them lonely or not lonely.

If you help somebody by doing a good deed, you feel good about having
done the deed. The person you do the deed for appreciates it when you
give of yourself to help them. The loneliness in your mind is not
gone, but it's diminished to an extent. 

If we are good people to ourselves and others, we become more trusting
and trustworthy at the same time. Loneliness begins to fade into memory
with the trust that is mutually earned between individuals.

>>   Ed, I wish you some real tough times so that you can have the
>>   opportunity to learn how to laugh at life instead of whine
>>   about it. 
>
>Sometimes you come out stronger.  Sometimes simply damaged.  Just wish
>that we all will become happier and more able to cope.

The damage becomes an asset eventually, because enough damage works like
mental adrenalin. It gets one to say, "I'm not taking this negative
bullshit anymore!!!!" By saying something often enough, one convinces
oneself that it is true. It's called brainwashing, if you wish.

>"It's not the bullet that kills you, it's the hole."  -- Laurie Anderson
>Ted Stockwell                                             ted@cs.umn.edu

dreas
             Paradise is exactly like where you are right now, 
             only much, much better!       --Laurie Anderson (also) 


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