From: cashman@silver.ucs.indiana.edu (Geoff Cashman)
Subject: Re: UManitoba game applicants: READ!!!
Organization: Indiana University
Date: Mon, 5 Oct 1992 03:11:15 GMT

Greetings, 

I have made a response through mail to Mr. Holder directly.  My response
to his posting was much longer than this, and had things that were not
applicable to the empire community as a whole.  I am posting this edited
version again for the purposes of the empire community.  

I encourage deities to mail Mr. Holder directly.  Whether you agree
or disagree is irrelevant, I think the number of mailings he receives
from this will help him either way.  I know of one person who has
done so already. 

I do not believe that Mr. Holder will actually bend to my way of thinking 
on this, nor do I think I'll bend to his :-)  However, if several people
mail him then perhaps something can happen.  His address is:
	roholdr@ccu.umanitoba.ca

>R. Holder writes:
>>G. Cashman writes:
>>Again, for future or current deities:
>>1) It is highly unwise to deity at another site where you do not have
>>   direct full time access to the directory holding the server and it's
>>   files.  Assistant deity?  Sure.  Primary deity?  Forget it.

>So far I haven't addressed this point.  No doubt Mr. Cashman would have
>to enter into a very technical explanation - I'm satisfied to take his
>word for it.

Several problems off the top of my head...to solve these a primary deity
HAS to have access to the server and its files:
1) A player notes a possible security breach, that another player is
   possibly playing two countries.
2) The game goes down unexpectedly, and the cron job has failed.
3) An update has not updated correctly, and some hand manipulation of
   the data files is required. 
4) The cron job somehow gets multiple emp_t's running (it's happened).
5) A user's telegram file has overflowed, and has no way of emptying it.
6) The game becomes corrupted, and a restore is needed from backup.
7) The automatic backup program has failed. 

These were off the top of my head, took me 2-3 minutes to think and type
all these.  

>>2) NOT informing sys admins, even if you think they won't approve, is
>>   the wrong way of going about things.  NOT informing them can create
>>   an "us vs. them" scenario, much as many MUDs have had to face.
>True; if the admins are so insecure about the tiniest oversight in a user
>not bowing to their highness.  Such action would be universally unreasonable
>on sites which have no expressed rules about running games like Empire.  At
>U of Manitoba - there are no expressed rules.  So, just like it's okay to
>walk your dog after 6 p.m. if there's no law against it, it's okay to put
>up a game like Empire at your site unless there's some rule against it.

You are embarking on a project that will last for months.  You are doing
this project on a machine that you do not own, that you have no specific
rights to.  It has absolutely nothing to do with "bowing to their highness".
It's about professionalism, and realising that it is a priveledge to do
what you intend to do, a revokable one.  Working with them is far more
favorable then not informing them, which on a project of this size is
working against them even it it doesn't violate any laws or regulations.

Simply because a law doesn't exist, doesn't mean that you can do what
is not forbidden.

>(Even if there is, like I said, sites where there are such rules somtimes
>may take little or no interest in it - provided it does not interfere sub-
>stantially with system function.)

Empire is designed to interfere with system operations as little as possible.
There used to be weather in Empire, but it was removed because it was too
CPU intensive.  However, there are many sys admins who still find it improper
to have Empire servers running on their machines.  There are people that
are opposed to Empire simply because of the nature of the beast, not because
of what the beast actually does, but what it represents, which is the 
game world.  Empire *is* a game, and as soon as you tack that adjective
on, instantly there is a whole segment of sys admins that are opposed to it.
You are *not* winning points with these people, and in fact you are
converting some sys admins into game opposers by holding your attitude.

I am a user, have been for quite some time, and have never been a sys
admin, but I can easily see how they would come to this conclusion:
"I do not think we should allow games of any sort to be run.  It is quite
 apparent from this user's postings, that we are allowing the allocation
 of system resources decisions to be in their hands and that such users
 have little or no respect for the wishes of sys admins such as ourselves."

>> NOT informing the sys admins will 
>> not make any sys admin's heart warmer for a deity or player. 

>Forgive me, but I hardly see the average system administrator as a poor,
>loneley man who's iron tyranny over his silicon domain can be softened with
>a few kind words.  
>He doesn't care!  Why should he?  He's got better things
>to worry about than a few harmless gamers taking a brief pause from
>racking thier brains the rest of the day.  

There are many sys admins who will be upset that they were not contacted
about the fact that something of this size is happening on their system.
It is irrelevant if they are "softened" by "kind words".  What is important
is that they are informed that this is being planned, and that you are
requesting their permission. 

>It won't hurt anyone
>if you put Empire up...

EXACTLY the wrong thinking for a *user*.  It is NOT your position
to decide what will or will not hurt other users of a system.  You
are NOT a system administrator, remember that.  The sys admins are,
and it is their JOB to tell YOU either directly or indirectly what 
will or will not harm other users.  You are making a decision that
a sys admin should be making, and there are precious few sys admins 
that will take kindly to that. 

>it's been suggested 
>(by other users) 

As Larry Fein so eloquently put it, one user does not make "users".
He is the only person who said what follows...

>that Empire takes
>up as little as .1 - .5% of total CPU resources.  

...and I disagree, and I have more programming experience than he does
(which he readily admits).  System loads vary from system to system.
Is it possible for there to be an impact of .1%?  Perhaps.  But the
system he is referring to is a highly powerful Sun product.  Picard
is not such a machine, based on what you have told me about that system,
nor is it even close.

>>I can count game after game where the deities had permission of the
>>sys admins, or were the sys admins themselves.  Unfortunately, I can 
>>remember many games where such was not the case, and games that
>>vanished without notice. 

>Without hard statistics - I'm still tempted to argue "go for it" and see
>what happens.  After all it's just a game.

And a game that many people like, and a game which many people do not
want to see enter into more disapproval because people like you are
able to maintain the ideas about running such games that you do. 

>>It must be remembered, that at the very large majority of educational
>>institutions, computing access is a priviledge *NOT* a right.

>I'm afraid he's right here.  Although why this flawed perception on
>the part of computer services departments worldwide persists is beyond me.

Because the machines are not specifically owned by *you* and *you* only,
but by a larger administrative and governing body of which you contribute
some monies, but an incredibly small portion thereof.

>In my country, Canada, the state heavily subsidizes universities - or at
>least did before Brian Mulroney became our dreaded Prime Minister.  The
>line a student gets fed when (s)he suggests an obligation on the part of
>the university is "P-ha!  You didn't pay for it!  Who are you to complain?"
>Okay, there's a point to this (an increasingly weak point given our tuition
>has gone up 28% in the last two years) - a point that could be debated 
>further. 

See above.  What gives you the right to decide how system resources beyond
the "normal" realms of usage of your account are used?  It doesn't matter
how much money you personally paid in this arena, its a paltry sum compared
to the total, and you are influencing other people who have also paid.

>>In 
>>conjunction with this, it must be noted that Empire has NOTHING
>>to do with academics.

>Neither does the campus bar, the campus video arcade, the campus billiard
>room - all of which use student money just like the unix mainframe at this
>university.  

Do the campus bar, the campus video arcade, and the campus billiard room
have any academic purpose?  They are recreational.  The unix systems are
primarily academic in nature.  Your examples are not of the same genre
as the unix machines.

Let's take another example, a campus library.  You pay for that library
through your fees, in some small way.  So does everyone who attends there.
Do you have a right to take up a discussion table with an Avalon Hill
war game that will last months?  If you just went and did it, do you
not think that the libary administration would be upset?  

Empire is not as visible as an Avalon Hill game, but is certainly has
as great or more impact on the resources of the university.  

>Computer Services has, however, not made it a policy to outlaw
>entertainment on campus - nor should it.  

But, the University would deem it inappropriate for a rock band 
to appear in a library, or an observatory, or a lecture hall, and
by extension a computer.  Empire IS entertainment, one that has to
occur on a computer, but that doesn't mean that a computer is thus
an appropriate place for entertainment. 

>Besides, I'll wager you that
>I'd learn a good deal more about computers generally setting up an Empire
>client than I will playing Champion Edition Street Fighter.

This is true, but that doesn't mean that Empire is a primarily
academic endeavour.  It also does not mean that Empire is thus a
worthy academic enterprise, and thus worthy of the status of 
other academic enterprises.

>>Please please please, future Empire deities, don't let Empire become
>>a sys admin's worst nightmare....get permission.

>Don't look for problems.  Set it up and deal with the problem's when they
>come (if they come).

I think I've shown that *not* informing sys admins is ASKING for problems.
Informing sys admins is actively looking to *reduce*, not incur, problems.

If you do not receive permission in response to asking for such, it is
painfully obvious that the sys admins would have shut down the server
in the large majority of cases once it was discovered.  If you do receive
permission, than your freedom to run an Empire game is greater than if
you had not asked, not lesser.

			- Geoff Cashman
			  aka Mithrilien
Newsgroups: rec.games.empire