HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: nas_ng@jsc.nasa.gov. (Naga Ganesan)
Subject: tiruppukazh
Reply-To: nas_ng@jsc.nasa.gov.
Organization: G.E. Government Services
Date: Thu, 27 Aug 1992 15:50:14 GMT




                    --------------
                     Tiruppukazh
                    --------------


   AruNakirunAtar wrote Tiruppukazh in the 14th century. His melodious,
'sandham'-filled compositions were collected by Tiru. vaTakkuppaTTu ta.
cuppiramaNiya piLLai from 1880's to 1910. He collected 1200 tiruppukazh
poems from 'naTTuvaNaar' homes all over Tamilnadu. His sons, caNmukam,
ARumukam and cengkalvarAyar found 124 more poems. All the 1324 masterpieces
owe their existence in print to this great family of Tamil savants. Otherwise,
these poems would not be available to us. 

    va. cu. cengkalvarAya piLLai took the first M.A. in Tamil literature from
Madras University. Prof. V. A. Devasenapathy, Prof of Saiva Siddhanta,
Madras University and S. Sasivalli of International Institute of Tamil Studies
continue the family tradition of Tamil scholarship.

  K. Zvelebil has written excellent articles on AruNakiri. Dr. Fred Clothey
of Pittsburgh is an aruNakiri scholar. Swami Sadhuram of NanganallUr has
good skills in producing tiruppukazh-like poetry.


  tiruppukazh is the primary book on time-measure(taaLam) in Indian music
(taaLattiRku piramANa nuul). kirupananantavAriyAr has written good commentaries
on tiruppukazh. vaLLimalaic caccitAnanta cuvAmikaL has popularized tiruppukazh
all over India.


            kaalan naTungka vElatu koNTu
               kaanil naTanta murukOnE
             kaanamaTantai nANamozhintu 
               kaatalirangku kumarEcaa !


           cOlaivaLaintu caaliviLaintu
               cUzhum ilanji makizhvOnE
            cuuriyaN anjca vaariyilvanta
               cUraNai veNRa perumaaLE !

N. Ganesan
nas_ng@gese03.jsc.nasa.gov
From: raghavan@aslws01.asl.dl.nec.com (Dave Devanathan)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.tamil
Subject: looking for T.M.Ashokkumar
Date: 27 Aug 92 21:26:39 GMT
Followup-To: raghavan@asl.dl.nec.com
Organization: NEC America, Advanced Switching Laboratory


	Hi,

	I am looking for T.M. Ashokkumar who graduated form 

	Government college of Technology (GCT), Coimbatore.

	If anybody knows about his whereabouts please pass on the

	information to him or have him call me at 214-518-5130 

	or send e-mail to me.

	Thanks.

	R. Devanathan
*****************************************************************************
* Dave Devanathan      raghavan@asl.dl.nec.com	 Tel: (214) 518-5130        *
* Any opinions expressed are strictly  my own  and have nothing to do with  *
* Advanced Switching Laboratory, NEC America, Inc.,                         *
* 1525 Walnut Hill Lane, Irving, TX 75038. USA.                             *
*****************************************************************************
-- 
* Dave Devanathan      raghavan@asl.dl.nec.com	 Tel: (214) 518-5130        *
* Any opinions expressed are strictly  my own  and have nothing to do with  *
* Advanced Switching Laboratory, NEC America, Inc.,                         *
* 1525 Walnut Hill Lane, Irving, TX 75038. USA.                             *
From: srini@ireq-num.hydro.qc.ca
Newsgroups: soc.culture.tamil
Subject: ITRANS to ADAMI Conversion method
Date: 31 Aug 92 15:21:42 GMT
Reply-To: srini@ireq-num.hydro.qc.ca (K.Srinivasan)
Organization: IREQ, Hydro-Quebec, QC, Canada
Originator: srini@acr

To convert from ITRANS to ADAMI, the following are the only changes
to be made, to reproduce using ADAMI. This can be done using global
replace with any editor.

ITRANS to Next version of ADAMI:

ITRANS      ADAMI      ITRANS         ADAMI     meaning
  ny          NY       panychu        panchu   (cotton)
                       nyaayar        NYaayar  (Sun)
  ng          NG      changgam       changam   (sangam)
                      ingnganam     iNGNGanan  (this way)
  s           S         vasthu        vaSthu   (thing)


ITRANS to Version 9.1 of ADAMI: (the above three plus the following)

ITRANS      ADAMI      ITRANS         ADAMI     meaning
  uu          oo         puu           poo     (flower)
  n^          n         n^aan          naan    (I)

Rest of the ITRANS convention is fully supported as a subset in ADAMI
already.

The reason for 'ny' and 's' incompatabilty is explained below.

ny: Names like 'sukanyaa' can not be printed with ITRANS.
s:  ADAMI users would prefer to retain sivan, sakthi, sangam, sangili etc.
    instead of chivan, changam, changili etc. Reserving 's' for the rarely
    used grantham (Sa) does not appear justified.
    {In fact, many have requested that 'h' also be freed as alternative
    for 'g'. Capital 'H' will be the only way of getting grantham Ha in
    the next version of ADAMI. 'thaaham' will be equivalent to 'thaagam'.}

If the author of ITRANS decides to change the following, then,
ITRANS convention will be FULLY supported as a subset of ADAMI.
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^                
1. ITRANS should use only 'S' for Grantham (Sanskrit) 'Sa' instead of 's'.
   's' can be used as alternate to 'cha', if they decide.
2. ITRANS should use only 'NY' instead of 'ny'.
3. ITRANS should use only 'NG' instead of 'ng'.

One of the ITRANS users may take it up, if he/she considers it worthwhile.

K. Srinivasan  srini@ireq-num.hydro.qc.ca
Newsgroups: soc.culture.tamil
From: sundar@golf.cis.ohio-state.edu (N Sundar)
Subject: Re: Animal Sacrifice in Temples
Organization: The Ohio State University Dept. of Computer and Info. Science
Distribution: usa
Date: Fri, 4 Sep 1992 07:15:52 GMT


In article <92246.095106IO92395@MAINE.MAINE.EDU> T.C.A.Venkatesan 
<IO92395@MAINE.MAINE.EDU> writes about scarifices:
> As long as the meat is being used for feeding people, it is difficult
> to condemn these acts


In article <1992Sep3.220304.6936@wuecl.wustl.edu>,  Sundara Pandian
(sp2@cec1.wustl.edu) replies:

# [Lotsa stuff saying the epics and vedas support horse sacrifice]
#  Do you think that horses were sacrificed for feeding people ?
#  

Doubtful. But what is your (Sundara Pandian's) point? If you are trying to
 say Vedas advocate cruelty, you are entitled to your opinion. But the 
discussion, IMHO, is still about sacrifices in modern days, which is how it
 started. I am not aware of anybody sacrificing horses these days. 

Mostly chicken and such animals are being slaughtered and if the poor
people get free `prasadam', I see nothing wrong with that. If you are 
denouncing the spiritual cloak to the whole thing, again you have a right 
to your opinion. 

T.C.A.Venkatesan writes:
> All the meat in this world comes from killing
>'innocent' animals. One either condemns meat-eating or forget the
>whole thing

and Sundara Pandian replies:
#  Meat-eating is not irrational.
#  [Words implying vedic sacrifices and injunctions are irrational]

I think the original article by Mr.Venkatesan dealt only with the present-
day sacrifices. It may be irrational to link God with animal slaughter but
what is the net effect? People benefit.

I agree that animals should be slaughtered in a 'painless' way and that 
the link with God is irrational.

P.S. a. I am trying to renounce meat.
     b. No offence meant to anybody.
     c. I have paraphrased for brevity. If concerned valaignars feel
	I am not being accurate, please forgive and forget/correct.

abusive flames 2> /dev/null
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
N. S. Sundar          |    I am ardently against all awkward, affected
GTA, CIS, OSU         |    and artificial alliteration.
Off. ph: 292-4029     |
From: niranjan@eng.cam.ac.uk (Mahesan Niranjan)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.tamil
Subject: Tamil Names
Date: 1 Sep 92 13:04:11 GMT
Organization: Cambridge University Engineering Department, UK

Could someone please post (or email me) the list of Tamil names.

thanx
niranjan
Newsgroups: soc.culture.tamil
From: babu@jhunix.hcf.jhu.edu (Natarajan Sureshbabu)
Subject: Re: kamban and vaLLuvan
Organization: HAC - Johns Hopkins University, Baltimore
Date: Thu, 27 Aug 1992 19:17:41 GMT

In article <kat.714929556@sybok> kat@doe.carleton.ca (Kathiravan Krishnamurthi) writes:
>In <kat.714852241@wesley> kat@doe.carleton.ca (Kathiravan Krishnamurthi) writes:
>

>>   "yeNNarum nalathinAL inaya niRuzhi
>>    kaNNodu kaNNinaik kavvi ondRiyondRu
>>    uNNavum nilaipeRAthu uNarvum ondRida
>>    aNNalum nOkinaan, avaLum nOkinaaL"
>
>>   kamban

>exchanged)
>
>"kaNNodu kaNNinai nOkkokin vaaichsoRkaL
>yenna payanum ila."
>
>.

ThiruvaLLuvar also talks about the opposite. i.e., the 
lovers do not see each other eye to eye.

yAnOkkun kAlai nilannOkkum yanOkkakkal
thanOkki mella nagum.


Bye,
Babu
From: siva@ucbeh.san.uc.edu
Newsgroups: soc.culture.tamil,soc.culture.indian
Subject: Re: Animal Sacrifice in Temples
Date: 3 Sep 92 10:05:55 EST
Distribution: world
Organization: Univ. of Cincinnati

In article <92246.095106IO92395@MAINE.MAINE.EDU>, T.C.A.Venkatesan <IO92395@MAINE.MAINE.EDU> writes:
> In article <Btx9sy.6J8@watserv1.uwaterloo.ca>, mvishnu@morse.uwaterloo.ca (m
> vishnu) says:
>                                                                    Already
>>the Hindu leaders both within India and outside (sankaracarya, prabupada
>>of ISCKON for example) have had the guts to write that the animals
>>sacrificed in a Vedic ritual go to heaven!
>>
>>>
>>Killing of innocent animals for spiritual upliftment only reflects the
>>stupidity of the people who are perforoming/sponsoring them.  It also
>>reflects, in my opinion, the primitive (ie backward) nature of the Vedas.
>>
>>Meenan Vishnu
> 
> 
>    As long as the meat is being used for feeding people, it is difficult
> to condemn these acts. 

    Hindu/Verdict  scripts and what Hindu spiritual leaders
    are supposedly saying is what is being discussed here. 
   Are you then saying that killing
   animal in temples may be tolerated as long as the meat is
   used for food.
   
>All the meat in this world comes from killing
> 'innocent' animals. One either condemns meat-eating or forget the
> whole thing. If the animals are just sacrificed and thrown away, or if
> killing itself is not done properly, then it is barbaric and needs to
> be stopped.
> 
>    The spiritual upliftment argument may be just a ploy to satisfy
> witnesses (after all, most people that eat meat do not see the
> butchering process whereas a ritual is a public act) - like kosher
> meat perhaps, or like some muslims do.
> 
>    Condemnation of the entire vedas based on this is not right. From what
> I have seen, the vedas and in fact hinduism, have lot of contradictory
> messages. The right approach is to teach the common man how to pick
                                                          ^^^^^^^^^^^
> up the right stuff. Saying that everything about either is wrong is
  ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
> a faulty approach!
> 
       Sounds very convenient!  Now, if I am a meat eater, I can
       eat it in a temple and, may be even, 
       share it with the brahmin/priest.
    

   
> Cheers,
> Venky.
> 
>
 
Siva.


Newsgroups: soc.culture.tamil,alt.culture.tamil,soc.culture.indian
From: sandeep@unislc.uucp (Sandeep Kulkarni)
Subject: Re: Bhagavad Gita on animal sacrifice in yajnas
Organization: Unisys Corporation SLC
Date: Wed, 2 Sep 1992 14:02:24 GMT

From article <1992Sep2.093745.10395@wuecl.wustl.edu>, by sp2@cec1.wustl.edu (Sundara Pandian):
>          Bhagavad Gita on animal sacrifice in yajnas
>         ---------------------------------------------
I get the impression from your posting that only Brahmins/priests can perform 
yagnas and hence are the only ones who offer sacrifices (animals).

But I really haven't seen that depicted in Ramayana etc where they have all
kinds of yagnas. All the yagnas just show offerings of food , ghee etc.

Sandeep.
Newsgroups: soc.culture.tamil
From: fb78@sol.acs.unt.edu (Ganesh Gopalakrishnan)
Subject: Re: Which kuRal is right?
Organization: University of North Texas
Distribution: usa
Date: Sun, 30 Aug 1992 14:34:08 GMT

sundar@golf.cis.ohio-state.edu (N Sundar) writes:


>I have a question about a kuRaL. Sometime ago, I read in this newsgroup:

>	epporuL ethhthanmaiththu Ayinum apporuL
>	meipporuL kAnbadhu aRivu.

>However, I remember this as:
>	epporuL yAr yAr vAi kaetpinum apporuL	
>	meipporuL kAnbadhu aRivu.

>Which is right? I don't think the difference is trivial. The second version
>places stress on acquiring information through conversation/dailogue 
>rather than from books, etc. It, IMHO, goes well with the kuRaL:

>	celvaththuL  celvam cevich chelvam achchelvam
>	celvathuL ellAm thalai.

>I'd appreciate an answer by email. corkuRRam iruppin mannikkavum.
>-------------------------------------------------------------------------
>N. S. Sundar          |    I am ardently against all awkward, affected
>GTA, CIS, OSU         |    and artificial alliteration.
>Off. ph: 292-4029     |
The second version is the right one, per my memory! - Ganesh
From: nasokan@yoho.uwaterloo.ca (Asokan)
Subject: Re: KaaLamEgam's silEdai ( was Re: SILADI )
Organization: University of Waterloo
Date: Tue, 1 Sep 1992 12:06:49 GMT

In article <9209010413.AA25808@cec1.wustl.edu> sp2@cec1.wustl.edu (Sundara Pandian) writes:
>R.Parthasarathy ( partha@mse.ogi.edu ) writes :
[...]
>>Velli ezhum                       |  Sun will rise.
[...]
>  = By the time a handful of food is served, the sun will come.
>    ( It will be the next day's morning when the food is finally
>      ready for serving .)
[... Comprehensive description by Sundara Pandian deleted for brevity ...]

Just to pick nits:

veLLi is, IMHO, not a reference to the sun.  It is a reference
to vidiveLLi, the morning star, aka venus.  Not that it changes
the meaning or SP's lucid description in any significant way....

Regards,

- Asokan
From: sankar@bank.ecn.purdue.edu (Mahalingam Sankararaman)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.tamil
Subject: Re: Casteism in TN in the last century
Date: 27 Aug 92 21:07:19 GMT
Organization: Purdue University Engineering Computer Network

In article <2A9C3289.24032@orion.oac.uci.edu>, sundar@indigo1.hsis.uci.edu (M. Sundaramoorthy) writes:

> >6. Even education wise, though the percentage was certainly high, there
> >   were those with poor education and in poverty among the Bramins also.
> >   They are among those who are most affected today.
> 
> 	I agree there are poor among Brahmins. The categories that are shown
> 	by many (including my friends) are Priests (and Prohits) and the
> 	'cooks'. But I don't know what is their % among Brahmins. (I wonder
> 	they make any significant proportion, compared the  'poor' among
> 	the other low castes).
> 	

It is true that they are poor but, certainly they are not 
the only poor Brahmins. In TN, Brahmin slums do exist. For 
example, if you go to the streets (or rather lanes) around 
the Rock Fort in Trichy you would find what is generally 
termed as `stores' and some areas of West Mambalam in 
Madras are few places that are very visible. 


> 
> 	(Aside: Still the temple priests and prohits who perform rituals are
> 	well paid and respected by the common folks than many other low caste
> 	people who are still involved in traditional professions. Their
> 	economic progress (may be a section, though), may be judged by the
> 	TVS-50 ad. with a 'gurukkaL' riding the moped and a caption:
> 	'paNditharkaL munnERiya kaalam').
> 		

Not true. The problem is we tend to go to only the most
popular temples like Palani or Thirupathy or Chidambaram.
Sure enough the priests there are pompous etc.
and we come to the conclusion that all of them are
better off. But most of the temples in TN do 
not have any income. The temple priests there are very very poor.
Sastrigal/Vathiyar/Prohits are slightly better off than
gurukkal, in general.

Sankar
From: Veeramany.Sthanumurthy@bbs.oit.unc.edu (Veeramany Sthanumurthy)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.tamil
Subject: Muththamizh viththavanA?
Date: 27 Aug 92 21:48:11 GMT
Organization: Extended Bulletin Board Service

In article <kat.714943490@pulaski> kat@doe.carleton.ca (Kathiravan Krishnamurthi) writes:
>
>
>   selvaa! yengaL thamizhic selvaa
>   min anu guruvE! muthamizh vithvaa!
>   muthuth thamizhai
>   anu vanuvaaka pirithu poruL viLakkum uthamaa!
>   thamizh eenarkaLai kaLaiya vantha puthuyuka vElavaa!
>   matayarkaLukku NYanaoLi kodukum theepaa!
>   thodarka un paNi! vaazhka!
>
>   kathiravan

oru chiRu chanthEkam:

muththamizhai viththavarA?
muththamizhai vaanginavar yAr? enna vilai?
thamizh eenarkaL yAvar? pAkkirikaLA?
matayarkaL enbavar yAr? 
mataiyil kudi iruppavarkaLA?
matai enna valai mataiyA? illai ..
thodarattum
thodar vAkku vaLarattum
vAkkuvAtham mudiyattum ...

ippozhuthAvathu oru punnakai-mukam poda 
pANdian anumathippAr enRu ninaikkiREn ..

:-)
Sthan.
--
   The opinions expressed are not necessarily those of the University of
     North Carolina at Chapel Hill, the Campus Office for Information
        Technology, or the Experimental Bulletin Board Service.
           internet:  bbs.oit.unc.edu or 152.2.22.80
Newsgroups: soc.culture.tamil
From: slahiri@jade.tufts.edu (Sandip Lahiri)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.tamil,soc.culture.indian
Subject: Re: HELP WITH PRE/POST COMPLETION EID
Date: 26 Aug 92 19:17:46 GMT
Organization: Tufts University - Medford, MA
Originator: slahiri@jade.tufts.edu

In article <19894@plains.NoDak.edu> velmurug@plains.NoDak.edu (Velmurugan.A. ) writes:
>
>
>Hi guys
>
>
>	I heard from my international students' office that the
>	immigration law has been changed regarding pre/post
>	completion EID. I would like to hear from those who have
>	gone through this process off late. In fact I would like
>	to know whether the immigration office will be able
>	to give the EID immediately (say within 10 days) if we
>	apply in person or by some other means.
>
>	
>	My nearest immigration office is BLOOMINGTON, MINNESOTA.
>	I would appreciate any additional info about this office.
>
>
>	I would appreciate a reply by E-MAIL.
>
>
>	Thanks in advance
>
>
>
>Velu

Wait a sec man, do you mean EAD ? Recent changes in law forbid the
university international centre to issue EAD (which was the
sole authority in issuing the document) to the student concerned. You
have to apply to INS thru your university international center. The 
charge is $60. You have to apply within one month of your date of
graduation/NOT before two weeks (not sure check this one) prior
to it. It takes 8 (if u r lucky)- 11 weeks (if you are unlucky)
for your application to get processed. I applied for my EAD on 16th
June, 1992 and I have received my interview appointment letter with
them only on the day before yesterday !! Unless you appear at the 
interview u cannot be issued an EAD and worse if your mailing address
has changed in between. And remember if you get your EAD after two
months it means your practical training period = 12-2=10 months and
NOT 12 months.

-Sandip
From: srini@ireq-num.hydro.qc.ca
Newsgroups: soc.culture.tamil
Subject: Differences between ADAMI and ITRANS
Date: 31 Aug 92 15:27:20 GMT
Reply-To: srini@ireq-num.hydro.qc.ca (K.Srinivasan)
Organization: IREQ, Hydro-Quebec, QC, Canada
Originator: srini@acr

This posting is for those who are unfamiliar with the differences between
the ADAMI and ITRANS convention.

meaning             ITRANS                      ADAMI

siva                chivaa                 sivaa, chivaa
seetha(grantham S)  siithaa, sIthaa        Seethaa, siithaa, SIthaa
seetha(Tamil)       chiithaa, chItha       seethaa, cheetha
flower              puu                    poo
earth               buumi                  boomi
cotton              panychu                panchu, paNYchu
Sun                 nyaayar                NYaayar
sister              thanggai               thangai, thaNGgai
this way            ingnganam              iNGNGanan
I                   n^aan                  naan, nNaan
second              vin^aadi               vinNaadi
question            vinaa                  vinaa
victory             veRRi                  vetri, veRRi
sukanyaa            (not possible)         Sukanyaa(Gr.), sukanyaa (Ta.)
venkataraman        vengkataraaman         venkataraaman
venkatraman         vengkatraaman          (not possible in ver 9.1)
                                           venkadraaman (next version)
Thanks              nan^Ri                 nanRi

The rules are identical for all other usages.

K. Srinivasan  srini@ireq-num.hydro.qc.ca
Newsgroups: soc.culture.tamil
From: selvakum@watserv1.uwaterloo.ca (C.R.Selvakumar - Electrical Engineering)
Subject: Re: ammA/appA
Organization: University of Waterloo
Date: Tue, 25 Aug 1992 21:04:48 GMT

In article <BtK0Gz.Du6@acsu.buffalo.edu>, sivap-m@cs.Buffalo.EDU (Muhunthan Sivapragasam) writes:
> 
> it is said "ma" is the first sound a child says
> 
> i am a srilankan tamil. in my place the belief is a baby first learns to say
> "mama" ( which refers to uncle ), then amma, and it takes quite sometime to
> start saying "appa" ( father ).

    Yes ! This is a true observation. ma..ma is what a child is able to
    say easily getting the cue from the visible lip movement but soon
    the child learns to show effort and learns to emphasize and says
    ammaa which is formed from ma..ma. maamaa means *maternal* uncle who
    in dravidian society can be  a father-in-law and this fact is used
    to make fun of the child's selfishness. In dravidian society, the
    mother's relatives play a greeat role and especially during and 
    immediately after child birth and words such as maamaa and ammaan are
    applied.

    anbudan
    Selva Selvakumar
Newsgroups: soc.culture.tamil,soc.culture.indian
From: Veeramany.Sthanumurthy@bbs.oit.unc.edu (Veeramany Sthanumurthy)
Subject: Re: Animal Sacrifice in Temples
Organization: Extended Bulletin Board Service
Date: Fri, 4 Sep 1992 14:10:53 GMT

[attributions deleted; all errors are mine]

M Vishnu says:
>>>Killing of innocent animals for spiritual upliftment only reflects the
>>>stupidity of the people who are perforoming/sponsoring them.  It also
>>>reflects, in my opinion, the primitive (ie backward) nature of the Vedas.

TCA Venkatesan says:
>>   As long as the meat is being used for feeding people, it is difficult
>>to condemn these acts.

Sundara Pandian says:
>      As I pointed out in one of my earlier articles, aswamedha yaga
> ( horse sacrifice ) is reported twice in Valmiki Ramayana, one by
> Dasaradha and the other by Rama. Graphic details are given in the

[I remember reading a while ago about a German's interpretation of
Mahabharata. How it might have been a tongue-in-cheek take on these 
very practices, a technique necessitated by the survival instinct.
by Dorai Sitaram, I think]

I feel all this is more horse sacrifice, personally. Although, I can
understand the inherent kuRaL'ic kindness of MV and SP as evidenced
by their preoccupation with the dead (in all its morbidity.)

[The rest of the flogging/flailing deleted]

Sthan.

PS. Has anyone heard the story about how the bucket (or whatever)
suspended by the rope hung in mid-air as Vasuki attended to the
needs of VaLLuvar? Anybody know about her take on this story?
--
   The opinions expressed are not necessarily those of the University of
     North Carolina at Chapel Hill, the Campus Office for Information
        Technology, or the Experimental Bulletin Board Service.
           internet:  bbs.oit.unc.edu or 152.2.22.80