From: crago_l@cubldr.colorado.edu
Subject: Re: more on Taliesin
Organization: University of Colorado, Boulder
Date: Wed, 14 Oct 1992 23:10:54 GMT

In article <1992Oct13.083552.2768@monu6.cc.monash.edu.au>, Myrddin <Myrddin@tri.isolatedw.edu.ow> writes:
> I have not read been able to read any of the previous articles in this
> topic but I have one possible error I wish to clear up.
> I hope that you do not think that Merlin was Taliesin.
> Merlin is/was Welsh, whereas Taliesin was a member of the Scottish Court.
> I don't know why he (Taliesin) wrote in Welsh, though I have seen
> supposed examples of this.

It would be difficult for this to be true. I took a graduate class in
medieval Welsh, and the principal texts we used were the alleged
writings of the ancient WELSH poet, Taliesin. 

Very early in history the people who later came to be called Welsh
inhabited territory which is NOW Scotland; they migrated south and
established themselves in what is now Wales. Maybe that's where
the misconception arose about Taliesin being Scottish.

> 
> If anyone has any examples of mythological similarities or more
> information on Taliesin (pronounced TALLY-AY-SIN) please post it to this
> newsgroup as it is rather difficult to get mail through to my address.
> 
The class was some time ago and my memory is not entirely clear, but
according to the myth, and/or the poetry itself, Elfin was the son of
the Welsh king at that time (circa 6th century) and one day decided to
go fishing at the weir. He was disgusted that he didn't catch any fish.
What he did eventually catch was a leather bag. When he hauled it ashore
and opened it, there was a boy in it. He became the companion of Elfin.
He was magical, because he grew faster than an ordinary child. Eventually
he became named Taliesin, which means *radiant brow.* He became a bard.

His emergence into prominence came when, if I recall correctly, Elfin was
imprisoned for some reason. Taliesin marched into the great hall of the
king. All the king's bards were there, waiting to defeat him verbally.
Taliesin produced a magical spell that caused all the bards  to do that
moronic thing where you strum your fingertips over your lips and make
a funny sound. The bards couldn't stop doing it. Theking realized T's
magical power, and released Elfin.

There is some question as to whether there was an actual poet, Taliesin,
or whether the poems represent the work of a number of people -- much the
same as the question about Homer. However, I have never heard it questioned
that he was a Welsh bard.

Incidentally, Taliesin has nothing whatever to do with Merlin. Merlin goes
with King Arthur.

Oh, I just remembered I have here the Oxford Companion to the Literature of
Wales. Let's see ... okay, the entry for Taliesin says:(late 6th cent.), a
poet named with Aneirin in a famous passage in Nennius's *Historica
Brittonum* which lists the poets who once flourished in the Old North of
Britian. In the *Book of Taliesin* there is a group of twelve poems
believed to represent his authentic work.

Wait -- here's the connection with Merlin: There is other evidence that
Taliesin was featured in stories of a semi-mythical character at an early
date...Between the 11th and 13th centuries T's reputation as an omniscient
prophet appears to have been on the increase, as borne out by a number of
poems foretelling victory against the Saxons, and later the Normans, in
which his name is frequently coupled with that of *Myrddin* to give
authority to the prophecies. Occult knowledge of this kind was an essential
aspect
of the omniscience accredited to poets in early Celtic society.

Well, that's probably more than you ever wanted to know about Taliesin...

Regards, Lou