HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: news@informix.com (Usenet News)
Newsgroups: news.groups
Subject: Re: RFD:  rec.music.compose
Date: 15 Apr 92 20:00:03 GMT
Reply-To: rfisel@informix.com
Organization: Informix Software, Inc.

In article <shl7cINNvv@news.UU.NET> josh@tekelec.com (Josh Barinstein) writes:
> ***** PROPOSAL FOR NEWSGROUP TO DISCUSS COMPOSING/SONGWRITING:
> 
> NAME
> ----
> 
>      rec.music.compose
> 
> STATUS
> ------
> 
>      unmoderated
> 
> CHARTER:
> -------
> 
>      rec.music.compose would allow composers and songwriters of all sorts
> to exchange ideas concerning the creation of musical works.  Questions to
> be addressed include:
> 
>      - Where is composing/songwriting heading?  What is being written?
>      - How is the the art of music writing approached today?
>      - What obstacles are writers facing in today's society?
>      - What can a composer/songwriter do to improve his craft?
> 
>      This forum would be open to discussions of all styles of composition;
> would allow composers/songwriters to establish connections with one ano-
> ther;  would allow for artists to send each other tapes with latest ideas
> for opinions/constructive criticism.
> 
> RATIONALE:
> ---------
> 
>      There are assorted newsgroups in existence for the discussion of dif-
> ferent styles of music; however, these discussions are strictly from a
> listener's perspective.  There is also rec.music.makers which discusses the
> process by which a musician produces the audible end product.  However,
> there is no group that addresses the creative process that is so important
> to the art of music-making.  This group would serve to fill that gap.
> -- 
>       / Josh Barinstein \
>      -  josh@Tekelec.com -
>       \ (818) 787-1844  /

I would find this very interesting, and it would reduce the time I spend  
reading "for sale" and "xyz synth HELP!!!!" notices. Howz about it?

Rick Fisel
rfisel@informix.com
Xref: sparky news.groups:10090 rec.games.mud:4809 rec.games.mud.lp:1503
From: downsj@nyssa.CS.ORST.EDU (jason downs)
Newsgroups: news.groups,rec.games.mud,rec.games.mud.lp
Subject: Re: rec.games.mud reorg, opinion
Date: 12 Apr 92 19:32:22 GMT
Organization: spherical domain of death and darkness

In article <1992Apr12.185333.135860@zeus.calpoly.edu>,
	claudius@zeus.calpoly.edu (King_Claudius) writes:
>Um, I'm not entirely sure what you mean "haven't succeeded".  If you mean that
>we've tried reorganizing them before, it has worked somewhat [r.g.m.lp]...true
>there is still a HELL of a lot of x-traffic...so that part has failed.
>
>One thing I've kinda noticed is everyone goes "we've talked about this before,
>and it didn't work." yet I have NEVER seen a CFV.   [except for r.g.m.lp, which
>passed]

there never has been a CFV for anything other than r.g.m. and r.g.m.lp., as
the past reorg attmept never made it past the CFD- it was impossible for this
crowd to agree on wether r.g.m. should be moderated and create r.g.m.d, or
create a r.g.m.info, moderated.. or something along those lines. if we try
to reorg it again, we will get nowhere, again.

just support r.g.m.annouce, moderated, and forget about all those little
proposed newsgroups.

>Let's not kill this discussion before its time.

let's just keep it in r.g.m., where it belongs.

-- 
\-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-/
 \           - jason downs -           /\     - downsj@janus.cs.pdx.edu -    /
 / zeppelin/cryvortex/amiga/insane guy \/ note new temporary address above!! \
/-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-\
From: alok@cbnewsi.cb.att.com (alok.vijayvargia)
Newsgroups: news.groups
Subject: Re: straw poll nonsense (re s.c.i.a)
Date: 6 Apr 92 14:17:42 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: AT&T

In article <4023@crl.LABS.TEK.COM>, scott@ferrari.LABS.TEK.COM (Scott Huddleston) writes:
> s.c.india.american
> 
> is very similar to s.c.indian.american but was not included
> in the STRAW POLL that was taken.  

Why did you not suggest it as a possible name before the straw poll ?

> I bet this would satisfy many
> people who object to the confusion with American Indian, and also
> satisfy many people who like s.c.indian.american .
> 

I agree it is a reasonable alternative, however this would require
a change in name of soc.culture.indian too, to soc.culture.india.

Also there are groups like soc.indian.music.classical and 
soc.indian.music.misc which would then require renaming to
soc.india.music.*

> I commend Jose for trying to avoid Alok's first mistake of blatantly
> disregarding many people's legitimate opionions.  

In my RFD/CFV for SCIA,
people's opninions were not disregarded. They were expressed in the vote.
Why do you think there were so many no votes against SCIA ?
I may not have conducted a separate straw poll to select a name, however
I did give them a chance to vote NO, and they did.

> But a mindless
> straw poll is not the best way to reach a satisfactory solution.

I think that the straw poll was conducted reasonably considering the then 
standards of straw polls. I agree that there is scope for improvement in 
the process of straw poll, and as a matter of fact you have suggested a
good improvement in this mail itself.

> Isn't it common sense that one
> should consider both objections and preferences in picking a name,
> and not just preferences?
> --

And that is the improvement which can be made.

> Scott Huddleston
> scott@crl.labs.tek.com


Alok
Date:  9 Apr 92 01:36:29 GMT
From: axolotl@socs.uts.edu.au (Iain Sinclair)
Newsgroups: news.groups
Subject: Re: RFD: rec.arts.manga vs. rec.arts.comics.manga
Reply-To: axolotl@socs.uts.edu.au
Organization: University of Technology, Sydney

hades@coos.dartmouth.edu (Hades) writes:
 >    Ah, ok, lets talk about numbers for a second here then. For the
 >month of March alt.manga had an estimated readership 12000, the % of
 >sites that get the group was 47, the total number of articles posted to
 >the group was 427, the size of said articles in Mbytes was 993.3 and the
 >group ranks 927 based of readership percentage. Now for rec.arts.comics,
 >the same numbers are: 48000, 78%, 2508 articles, 4416.0 Mbytes, rank
 >172. Now it doesn't take a statistician (although I am one just incase
 >the need arises ;) it is clear to see that alt.manga for all its recent
 >"growth" is nowhere near the size of rec.arts.comics.

With 47 sites, it's amazing that it can manage 100 articles a week (though
there's more than that now).  What will it be like when it has proper
propagation?  The original mailing list had 17 people on it.

(BTW, Brian Reid's statistics are estimates, and could be as far as
1 or 2 orders of magnitude off for low-traffic groups.  He acknowledges
this in his accompanying articles; have you read them?)

 >And with barely
 >over 100 articles per week, why are you even thinking about splitting
 >alt.manga?

Wrong. Never said I was;  others on the group have talked about it,
though.

 >Rec.arts.comics averaged better than 80 articles per day, and
 >we haven't been able to split it for a number of years.

If you're using the kind of "logic" that is infesting this
discussion, it ain't hard to see why.

 >>A rec.arts.comics.manga would inhibit any such split -- more than four
 >>or five levels of hierarchy is totally undesirable.
 >
 >    Undesireable to whom.
              ^
The group readers, obviously.  Do you wanna type "rec.arts.comics.manga"
every time you post or change newsgroups?  What about if you want to
create subgroups?  Why should you be hammered with "manga are just a
subset of comics" every time?

Of course, if you won't be reading the newsgroup, these issues aren't
important.

Nobody has still explained why rec.arts.comics.manga is "better".


--
Iain Sinclair   axolotl@socs.uts.edu.au                             ne cede.
From: cudcv@warwick.ac.uk (Rob McMahon)
Newsgroups: news.groups
Subject: Re: r.a.manga vs r.a.c.manga - A Plea for Sanity
Date: 15 Apr 92 15:03:16 GMT
Organization: Computing Services, Warwick University, UK

In article <92106.024022MBS110@psuvm.psu.edu> MBS110@psuvm.psu.edu (Norman St.
John Polevaulter) writes: 
>If your side loses, and the CFV goes ahead with the other name -- PLEASE,
>PLEASE don't vote against it just because of the name.

It seems to me that the vote is going to be mostly about the name.  If you
just go by whatever's in the CFV without argument you are giving one person
complete say over what should go where in the usenet hierarchy.  Voting no is
the only way we've got of preventing the whole thing collapsing into chaos.

>The specific name is ultimately immaterial.

It might be to you.  Some people think it's rather important to keep it all
consistent.  I shall be voting no if the CFV calls for rec.arts.manga.

Rob
-- 
UUCP:   ...!mcsun!uknet!warwick!cudcv	PHONE:  +44 203 523037
JANET:  cudcv@uk.ac.warwick             INET:   cudcv@warwick.ac.uk
Rob McMahon, Computing Services, Warwick University, Coventry CV4 7AL, England
Newsgroups: news.groups,rec.arts.sf.movies,rec.arts.comics
From: hucke@ux1.cso.uiuc.edu (Matt Hucke)
Subject: Re: RFD: alt.who-would-win
Organization: University of Illinois at Urbana-Champaign
Date: Tue, 14 Apr 1992 13:44:57 GMT

In article <1992Apr14.050925.8490@usenet.ins.cwru.edu> fau@po.CWRU.Edu (Francis A. Uy) writes:
>
>In a previous article, forbes@cbnewsf.cb.att.com (scott.forbes) says:
>>This is a formal Request For Discussion, proposing the creation of an
>>unmoderated newsgroup:
>>alt.who-would-win
>
>Here on rec.arts.comics we call it "Hoo'd Win".
> I think.  The apostrophe might be wrong.
>
>Makes sense as a group.  But would enough people
> use it?

No, but next time those threads invade a group that they have no place on, we
can tell them to take it there, and there'd be no excuse for them not to.

I'm going to vote YES and then unsubscribe. :)

-- 
"What? Over? Did you say it's over? Nothing's over, till we decide it is! 
 Was it over when the Germans bombed Pearl Harbor? Hell no!" --John Belushi
hucke@ux1.cso.uiuc.edu                        Gene Roddenberry 1921-1991
From: ts@uwasa.fi (Timo Salmi)
Newsgroups: news.groups
Subject: Re: Sauna newsgroup
Date: 8 Apr 92 20:11:54 GMT
Organization: University of Vaasa, Finland

In article <31438@sdcc12.ucsd.edu> sboswell@sdcc13.ucsd.edu (Triangle man) writes:
>What newsgroup would one talk about saunas (the sweatbox variety,
>not the swirling hot water variety.)

You might consider soc.culture.nordic.  Sauna is of Finnish origins.
Even the word "sauna" is plain Finnish.

...................................................................
Prof. Timo Salmi
Moderating at garbo.uwasa.fi anonymous ftp archives 128.214.87.1
School of Business Studies, University of Vaasa, SF-65101, Finland
Internet: ts@chyde.uwasa.fi Funet: gado::salmi Bitnet: salmi@finfun
Newsgroups: news.groups
From: peter@ferranti.com (Peter da Silva)
Subject: Bit Buckets again (Re: Crossposting spew (was Re: Question for net.views....))
Organization: Xenix Support, FICC
Date: Mon, 6 Apr 1992 21:35:23 GMT

In article <1992Apr4.011754.5097@decuac.dec.com> mjr@hussar.dco.dec.com (Marcus J. "will do TCP/IP for food" Ranum) writes:
> 	Right now, this thread is hitting 10 groups - if all the readers
> of those 10 groups insist on giving their views for each question, we're
> gonna overflow my brand new Signetics bitbucket, and I'll have to buy a
> new set of filters for it.

Didn't you read my followup to my article about cleaning out your bit
bucket? Those Signetics WOMs just aren't reliable any more... virtually
any one you buy has been rebranded. It's probably at least half full.

If all else fails, hook an ethernet card up to a terminator, and dissipate
the rotten bits as heat.
-- 
-- Peter da Silva,  Ferranti International Controls Corporation
-- Sugar Land, TX  77487-5012;  +1 713 274 5180
-- "Have you hugged your wolf today?"
From: friedman@maple.cis.ohio-state.edu (Mark "Crimson" Friedman)
Subject: Re: RFD:  rec.games.mud.{tiny,diku,announce}
Organization: NAIVE - New And Improved Virtual Environment
Date: Mon, 13 Apr 1992 19:46:12 GMT

In article <1992Apr13.181229.15796@uunet.uu.net> Bob Snyder <rsnyder@fergie.dnet.ge.com> writes:
>Proposed:
>rec.games.mud.tiny
>rec.games.mud.diku

Individual mud-type groups are especially nice for ones that have
attatched programming languages, like rec.games.mud.lp.  Since there
is no r.g.mud.sources, posting code to the respective groups would be
most appropriate.

>(This list is subject to change through discussion; this is only a
>starting point)

rec.games.mud.moo would be an obvious addition, I believe, since it's
pretty much still its in developmental/standardization stages.

>rec.games.mud.announce (moderated)

Good stuff, Maynard.  This one is *long* overdue.

One thing I'm dying to see, however, are more technical groups:

	rec.games.mud.programmer

or somesuch.  This type of thing would be geared more towards
programming of actual servers and clients, rather than coding in
attatched PLs (MUF, MOO, etc).

						- Mark Friedman
-- 
+----====>>>))) Mark Friedman is friedman@cis.ohio-state.edu (((<<<====----+
|   "There is nothing former   |   "If you put a hungry ferret in your     |
|      about King Crimson."    |      trousers, he'll run around..."       |
|    - Robert Fripp, 5/11/90   |               - Nigel Tufnel (Spinal Tap) |
Date:  9 Apr 92 01:48:08 GMT
From: axolotl@socs.uts.edu.au (Iain Sinclair)
Newsgroups: news.groups
Subject: Re: rec.arts.comics.manga is anomalous and misleading.
Reply-To: axolotl@socs.uts.edu.au
Organization: University of Technology, Sydney

lazlo@triton.unm.edu (Lazlo Nibble) writes:
 >By *whose* working definition -- besides yours -- does the word "comics"
 >refer exclusively to western sequential art?  Manga are discussed in
 >rec.arts.comics from time to time.  The best-known Western reference on
 >manga (Fredrick Schodt's MANGA! MANGA!) refers to manga as "Japanese
 >comics" in the title.

Yeah, then goes on to explain that they're nothing like comics, with
much stronger influences from indigenous art forms.  Go away and read
it before you post another article.


 >This is an international net.  From the point of view of the vast majority
 >of people on the net, "manga" refers only to one kind of comic book --
 >namely the Japanese kind.

Also the HK kind, the Taiwanese kind, and the increasingly large number
of Western comics with manga influences.


 >We have an existing hierarchy for comics, and
 >since manga are a type of comics

Wrong, wrong, wrong.  Comics and manga are as different as boxing
and martial arts.

 >Period.

...

--
Iain Sinclair   axolotl@socs.uts.edu.au                             ne cede.
From: rawdon@cabrales.cs.wisc.edu (Michael Rawdon)
Newsgroups: news.groups
Subject: Re: 2nd RFD: soc.personals.ads.{male,female}.{seeking-male,seeking-female}
Date: 7 Apr 92 01:33:28 GMT
Article-I.D.: spool.1992Apr7.013328.10918
Reply-To: rawdon@cabrales.cs.wisc.edu
Organization: University of Wisconsin Computer Sciences Dept., Madison, WI

In <1992Apr6.222233.26773@jato.jpl.nasa.gov> dave@jato.jpl.nasa.gov (Dave Hayes) writes:
>rawdon@cabrales.cs.wisc.edu (Michael Rawdon) writes:
>>Yes, but were they supporting the split into several groups, or simply the
>>creation of a soc.personals.ads hierarchy (i.e., one not in the alt.

>Most were supporting the split into several groups. As USENET grows and
>grows, so will the number of postings to these groups. 

So split it when the time comes.

>>Besides, I still maintain that the VAST majority of volume problems in
>>alt.personals are caused by discussion and test postings, which this
>>proposal would eliminate WITHOUT a split.  Thus, I believe, making everyone
>>(even me :-) happy.

>I agree, however (again) I am not creating a replacement for alt.personals.
>I am proposing the addition a separate service. 

I know this, BUT, a lot of the motivation behind the creation and shape of
this new service IS BASED ON EXPERIENCES WITH ALT.PERSONALS   This hierarchy
is not being created out of whole cloth.  The very fact that it has been
proposed is due largely to the existence, format, and success of the
alt.personals newsgroup.

Moreover, you say that you agree with me that the volume problems on
alt.personals stem mainly from the test postings and discussion, neither of
which will exist in the new group.  Where, then, do you believe the volume
problems on these new groups will come from?  If, on the other hand, you
believe that there will be no volume problems, then why do you wish to
create more than one group?

-- 
Michael Rawdon
rawdon@cabrales.cs.wisc.edu
University of Wisconsin Computer Sciences Department, Madison, WI

If it ain't broke, don't fix it.
From: thwang@mentor.cc.purdue.edu (Tommy Hwang)
Newsgroups: news.groups
Subject: Re: RFD: rec.arts.manga
Date: 9 Apr 92 16:55:38 GMT
Article-I.D.: mentor.44617
Organization: Purdue University Computing Center

In article <1992Apr9.140318.2772@mintaka.lcs.mit.edu> wald@theory.lcs.mit.edu (David Wald) writes:

>>     However late, okay, but I will cross post AS IS.  No "MANGA" warning
>>in headers.
>
>You're advocating deliberate rudeness.  Not in posting to

     It will have the "Standarized header" as stated.  I just do not
think that the "Mangas" should all be combined into one subject.
the headers WILL be based on the intended subject (ie. the title
of the books, or the name of its creater, etc...).  This is not
rudeness, I personally feel it is Fairness.  ne?

                                                    -TKH '92


---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 
      "Zu dem Tag wollte Ich zurueckkehren."  (emphasis on 'to that day')
      "Ich wollte zu dem Tag zurueckkehren."  (emphasis on 'want')
 "Ich wuenschte Ich koennte zu dem Tag zurueckkehren." (emphasis on 'wish')
                                                 -both KOR movie title.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Newsgroups: news.groups
From: chip@tct.com (Chip Salzenberg)
Subject: Re: 2nd RFD: SCIA (A violation of net guidelines)
Date: Mon, 13 Apr 1992 12:36:30 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: TC Telemanagement, Clearwater, FL

According to alok@cbnewsi.cb.att.com (alok.vijayvargia):
>The vote has not been officially invalidated.

This is Usenet.  Nothing is ever, EVER "official".

In point of fact, your vote has been ignored by the majority of sites.
Therefore, ipso facto, your vote was invalid: it didn't count.
-- 
Chip Salzenberg at Teltronics/TCT  <chip@tct.com>, <73717.366@compuserve.com>
      "Informix 4GL is not a 4G, and it's barely an L."  -- John Tombs
Xref: sparky news.groups:9725 misc.jobs.misc:3370
From: v136pds9@ubvmsb.cc.buffalo.edu
Newsgroups: news.groups,misc.jobs.misc
Subject: Re: RFD:  misc.jobs.offered.entrylevel
Keywords: RFD misc.jobs.offered.entrylevel
Date: 8 Apr 92 16:40:00 GMT
Followup-To: news.groups,misc.jobs.misc
Organization: University at Buffalo
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41

>In article <1992Apr2.155534.14962@uunet.uu.net> rc05@gte.com (Ramesh Chandak) writes:
>>Call For Discussion:  Creation of misc.jobs.offered.entrylevel
>>
>>   - a forum for posting job openings for fresh graduates ( entry level )
>>   - some interest has been expressed on misc.jobs.offered, misc.jobs.resumes
>>
>>And so this is a Call For Discussion for the creation of:
>>
>>        Name: misc.jobs.offered.entrylevel
>>     Charter: companies can post job openings for fresh graduates
>>  Moderation: Unmoderated.
>>	     
>>Your comments are solicited:


	Is there anything wrong with   misc.jobs.entrylevel?

	Would this newgroup be only for "companies" or could
	I post saying   "I'm here and I'm graduating..." etc?

	True, people may post their whole resume, but I wouldn't
	mind that.  Not only could I see my compitition but I could
	also see resume formats. (Not the purpose of the newgroup,
	I'm sure).


JOHN
From: stanley@ruby.OCE.ORST.EDU (John Stanley)
Newsgroups: news.groups
Subject: Re: RFD:  comp.bbs.misc
Date: 15 Apr 92 00:01:54 GMT
Article-I.D.: talon.1992Apr15.000154.4849
Organization: Oregon State University, College of Oceanography

In article <w5g8iB1w164w@ssc60.sbwk.nj.us> tonyd@ssc60.sbwk.nj.us (Tony DeBari) writes:
>One small suggestion...
>
>If comp.bbs.waffle fails, c.b.misc would then become a misc group without
>a surrounding hierarchy.  I therefore suggest that if comp.bbs.waffle
>fails, the proposed comp.bbs.misc should instead be called comp.bbs.  If
>at some future time one or more subgroups are formed, comp.bbs could be
>renamed comp.bbs.misc at that time.

It is easier to create a group now with the globally correct name than
to create one with a short-lived correct name and change it in the
future. There is no law that says a .misc group must have something
else to be .misc against, and the likelyhood of there being other
members of the comp.bbs hierarchy within a relatively short time is too
great to warrant creating a group that everyone knows must be renamed.

I.e., leave it as c.b.m, even if c.b.w fails. There is no reason no to.
From: hades@coos.dartmouth.edu (Hades)
Newsgroups: news.groups
Subject: Re: RFD: rec.arts.dragonlance
Date: 6 Apr 92 20:50:46 GMT
Organization: Dartmouth College, Hanover, NH

lucas@scicom.AlphaCDC.COM (Kevin Lucas Lord) writes:

>But wait!!!!! Like the original RFD said, this is for the books
>as well! Do the discussions of books belong under rec.games.frp?
>Maybe if they are books related to a game maybe, but not if
>they are just normal ol' books that people read. rec.games.frp
>is definnetly not the place to put a dragonlance newsgroup.
>Maybe under rec.arts.sf? How about it? It seems to be the only
>logical choice to me.

    No. I don't think so. Even though they are books, the read like an
adaptation of a campaign to prose format, and not much more. When you
get right down to it, the basis for the discussion, no matter what they
are talking about, is the Dragonlance world of Krynn that TSR created to
be used with the AD&D game. It's all role playing based and belongs in
rec.games.frp.

--
-Hades  (Brian V. Hughes)   | "When you get right down do it there is only
 hades@Coos.Dartmouth.Edu   |  one thing that matters here...
 Mac Database Developer     |                       I Have Mob Ties!"
 Dartmouth Medical School   |      -Mario Cuomo (played by Phil Hartman)