HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: paynter@bnr.ca (Stuart Paynter)
Subject: Re: Altitude sickness preparation
Reply-To: paynter@bnr.ca (Stuart Paynter)
Organization: Bell-Northern Research Ltd.
Date: Mon, 11 Jan 93 13:56:45 GMT

In article <1993Jan10.014048.46271@kuhub.cc.ukans.edu>, jamiller@kuhub.cc.ukans.edu writes:
|> My wife had pretty bad reaction to altitude (at around 8500) and I'm
|> trying to remember what is best in preparation.  I never have problems
|> with altitude up to 14000 or so (played bagpipes all though high
|> school :) so I didn't pay much attention to that stuff in the past.
|> 
|> She wants to know routines that will help here prepare best.  Like
|> whether swimming is better than running...
|> -- 
|> jamiller@kuhub.cc.ukans.edu
|> James Miller
|> 
|> _chicchai .sig no ho ga ichiban iin janai ka..._
|>              Enlightenment Happens?


There is an article in the latest American Health magazine on AS.  It 
seems that aerobic capacity does not lessen your chances  of being stricken.
Athletes in good shape are just as susceptible as anyone else.  I haven't
had time to read the article fully, I suggest that you may want to pick
up a copy.

Cheers....Stuart
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
From: a722756@roper.mc.ti.com (W. Donald Rolph)
Subject: Re: Anyone climb Mt. Washington recently?
Originator: a722756@roper.mc.ti.com
Organization: Texas Instruments / Attleboro Mass / USA
Date: Fri, 8 Jan 1993 22:31:32 GMT


In article <1993Jan8.053606.184@midway.uchicago.edu>, bejohnst@ellis.uchicago.edu (blaine everett johnston) writes:
|> In article <JRICHARD.93Jan7143812@sol.ulowell.edu> jrichard@sol.ulowell.edu (John 'MacGyver' Richardson) writes:
|> >The latest AMC Appalachia includes a story of a man who died of "sever
|> >cold" (one of many on the mountain) on a Mt. Washington winter climb.  
|> >It is not to be attempted without proper gear and even with proper gear 
|> >it can be risky.  Winter climbs should be attempted by _experienced_ 
|> >people only!  
|> 
|> >BTW: I can speak from experience.  I got hypothermia on Mt. Washington
|> >about 15 years ago.  And we were prepared for a winter climb (in the fall).
|> >
|> 
|>   C'mon guys, it's not that bad.  Climbing Washington in the winter is a lot
|> of fun.  If winter climbs were attempted only by experinced people,
|> there'd be no experienced people.
|> 
|>   O.K., I do admit being a little unprepared in a rhime ice storm with 20
|> foot visibility in August...
|> 
|>   The ridge approaches to Washington really can give you a chance to be
|> blasted by wind, so they are probably best avoided on a first trip.
|> There's a route which heads down to the northeast which is a bit of
|> a rough climb in winter.  This really leaves only the route near
|> Tuckerman's as an easy winter ascent route.
|> 
|>   I climbed Washingtion last Janurary, and at that time, crampons and
|> an ice axe were necessary in order to keep from sliding down Tuckerman's.
|> Of course, it had rained the previous day.  Reports from others indicate
|> that four foot plus snow drifts are not terribly uncommon, so be prepared
|> to turn back.  Summit conditions were 20 degrees and ~100 mph winds.  But
|> winds were only about 50 mph down a little bit.
|> The Tuckerman's route really has a rather short time
|> not at least partially in a protected valley.
|> 
|>   Full windgear with good insulation and no cotton should be considered 
|> essential winter gear, along with goggles.  Exposed flesh will get frostbite,
|> as may anything without windgear (such as the wool pants listed by someone
|> above).  I skipped windgear for my head
|> and was a little cold, but O.K.  (The head can radiate a lot of heat without
|> damage).  
|> Mountaineering mittens and neoprene face masks are strongly recommended. 
|> Your boot should be at least as well insulated as Sorels, and plastic boots
|> or mouse boots are recommended.
|> 
|>   It's a lot of fun.  If you particularly mind being knocked over by winds

**** I second these staements *********** 
-- 

Regards.
 
Don Rolph  a722756@pan.mc.ti.com WD3 MS10-13 (508)-699-1263
Xref: sparky rec.backcountry:10057 rec.photo:23323
From: pd@sics.se (Per Danielsson)
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry,rec.photo
Subject: Re: Goretex camera case. (was Re: backpacking with medium format cameras)
Date: 10 Jan 93 00:48:11 GMT
	<PD.93Jan9024544@horus.sics.se> <C0Lv4F.7Cr@dcs.glasgow.ac.uk>
Organization: Swedish Institute of Computer Science, Kista

In article <C0Lv4F.7Cr@dcs.glasgow.ac.uk> jack@dcs.glasgow.ac.uk (Jack Campin) writes:

>pd@sics.se (Per Danielsson) wrote:
>> jack@dcs.glasgow.ac.uk (Jack Campin) writes:
>>> I carry [ a TLR ] in a padded Goretex pouch made by Jessops for small
>>> video cameras, [...]
>> What's the point of having Goretex in a camera case?

>Now you come to mention it, it doesn't have the Goretex label and so
>probably isn't made of it.  It's the same kind of tough woven nylon on the
>outside but I wouldn't know if it has the internal laminated membrane, not
>having undone any of the seams.

If it doesn't have the Goretex label, I'm pretty sure it's not
Goretex. I can't see any advantage of putting a Goretex layer in a
camera bag. Goretex excels in clothes because of it's breathability,
but that's useless in a camera bag.
--
Per Danielsson				pd@sics.se
Swedish Institute of Computer Science, PO Box 1263, S-164 28 KISTA, SWEDEN
Xref: sparky rec.backcountry:10080 rec.photo:23412
From: pgf@cayman.com (Paul Fox)
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry,rec.photo
Subject: Re: Goretex camera case. (was Re: backpacking with medium format cameras)
Date: 11 Jan 93 18:42:50 GMT
Followup-To: rec.backcountry,rec.photo
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1 PL8]

Per Danielsson (pd@sics.se) wrote:
: If it doesn't have the Goretex label, I'm pretty sure it's not
: Goretex. I can't see any advantage of putting a Goretex layer in a
: camera bag. Goretex excels in clothes because of it's breathability,
: but that's useless in a camera bag.

Wouldn't it have the advantage of allowing a damp camera to dry more
quickly?  Not that you'd _want_ your camera to be damp, but if it were
to _become_ damp, you'd want it to dry fast, rather than putting it
in the equivalent of a ziplock bag, and having it remain wet...  I suspect
most camera bags aren't so waterproof though, so there's probably plenty
of ventilation without being made of Goretex.

--
		paul fox, pgf@cayman.com, (617)494-1999
		Cayman Systems, Inc., 26 Landsdowne St., Cambridge, MA 02139
From: chrism@col.hp.com (Chris Magnuson)
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
Subject: Black Diamond Crampons
Date: 7 Jan 1993 22:18:19 GMT
Organization: HP Colorado Springs Division
NNTP-Posting-Host: hpcsrc13.col.hp.com

  Anyone have any experience with the new BD Switchblade crampons for
  glacier travel?  They are lighter and stiffer than FootFangs, so I'm
  quite certain the Switchblades would kick butt on vertical ice.  I'm
  wondering if they keep snow from balling up underneath them during
  slogs across glaciers.

Thanks,
chris magnuson
chrism@col.hp.com
From: bishopj@botany.washington.edu
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
Subject: Re: Best kind of stove for Turkey?
Date: 9 Jan 1993 19:17:24 GMT
Organization: University of Washington
NNTP-Posting-Host: lupine.botany.washington.edu

I recently bought am MSR  X-GK for international trips.  I've had an MSR  
Whisperlite International for 5 years and been very happy with it, but I got a  
great deal on the X-GK and knew I would be going to Chile soon, so I bought it.   
As it turns out, in Chile white gas is sold in every other pharmacy, and is  
cheaper than in the U.S., so I could have used any stove.  What I'd like to  
mention is that cooking with the X-GK was like cooking with a rocket engine.   
With practice I was eventually able to avoid burning spaghetti in a full pot of  
water.  The noise was also comparable to a rocket engine. I know that all MSR  
stoves have been criticized on these point in previous threads, though I've  
never had these problems with my whisperlite.  I wouldn't take my X-GK along  
again unless I knew a) I needed to melt a lot of snow or boil a lot of water or  
b) I needed the great flexibility in fuel types, or c) I discovered the secret  
method of controlling the flame.
--

John Bishop
Department of Botany
University of Washington, Seattle
bishopj@botany.washington.edu
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
From: waters@Xenon.Stanford.EDU (Jim Waters)
Subject: Re: Canadian mail-order sources?
Organization: CS Department, Stanford University, California, USA
Distribution: na
Date: 13 Jan 93 04:03:06 GMT

scsykes@ncrcan.Canada.NCR.CA (scsykes) writes:

>An organisation called Mountain Equipment Co-op has a mail order
>service running out of Vancouver. Their prices are excellent,
>return policy better than any other I've come accross, and a life 
>time membership costs only $5. I don't have the address handy - 
>I'll post it on Monday.

Has anyone out there ordered MEC stuff in the US?  I was wondering
what kind of fee, if any, customs charges to let the stuff in.  And
are Canadians exempt from customs if they order the stuff in the US?

Thanks.

--Jim Waters
  waters@cs.stanford.edu
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
From: ann@tessi.com (Ann Makarias)
Subject: Re: Fabric Supplier for GoreTex and Polartec Wanted
Organization: Test Systems Strategies, Inc., Beaverton, Oregon
Date: Thu, 7 Jan 1993 16:23:09 GMT

I think that what people have been saying about Gore not selling fabric to
the public to control quality is true.  However, I have found Ultrex (a
slightly different, coated, microporus water-proof/breathable fabric) in a
local (Beaverton, Oregon) fabric store.  I have had good experience with
the performance of Ultrex, both in ready-to-wear and in garments I have
made.  Bonus: Ultrex is not as expensive, either!

Ann Makarias
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
From: a722756@roper.mc.ti.com (W. Donald Rolph)
Subject: Re: Anyone climb Mt. Washington recently?
Originator: a722756@roper.mc.ti.com
Organization: Texas Instruments / Attleboro Mass / USA
Date: Fri, 8 Jan 1993 22:23:12 GMT


I wa swatching this thread, and cant help popping in.  I have summitted mount
washington masny times in the winter under a variety of conditions.  My hit rate
for successful ascents was typically 50% or less, with the typical failure being
blown flat when we poked our nose above timberline.

If you go up you should be prepared for:
 
     at least -20 degrees F temperatures
     winds which have reached over 200 mph (moot since you cant walk in winds
        over about 60 mph)
     windchills of -45 degrees F (we have never succeeded in summitting in wind
        chills less than this)
     deep snow - bring snow shoes  (even 1/2  mile of deep snow can stop you
         cold, and you never know where you are going to be decending)
     glare ice - bring crampons
     bring an ice ax - steep conditions may be required
     extra food and clothes - you may be caught out for several days
     a sleeping bag and pad preferrably with bivouac sack or tent without poles -
          in case someone is injured
     the usual emergency gear

If you are experienced enough to do mount washington in winter, you know all this
already, sorry.

Having said that, Mount Washington is most beautiful and fun by my standards in
the winter.  My favorite White Mountain trips are under a clear winter sky
traveling fast while above treeline.  Good luck!!!!!
-- 

Regards.
 
Don Rolph  a722756@pan.mc.ti.com WD3 MS10-13 (508)-699-1263
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
From: mturner@henson.cc.wwu.edu (Mark Turner)
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
Subject: Re: Anyone climb Mt. Washington recently?
Date: 9 Jan 93 05:27:48 GMT
Article-I.D.: henson.1993Jan9.052748.15110
Organization: Western Washington University

Much has been said about climbing Mt. Washington in the winter, almost of
it cautionary, which is smart.

An added comment would be to remember to know your limits and know when to
turn back.  It's not a place to be caught out overnight unexpectedly.

I recall a February trip many years ago on which we set out to climb the
mountain.  Unfortunately, our party spent too much time partying in the
valley the night before and didn't get a sufficiently early start to enjoy
a fine (about 20 F) reasonably sunny day summit attempt.  We made it part
way up before deciding to return to camp.  I still haven't been to the
summit, summer or winter.

The point is to remember that days are short, the weather extreme, and
preparedness is essential.  But if you're ready, don't be completely
scared away from trying.  We all need challenges.

-- Mark Turner
mturner@henson.cc.wwu.edu


-- 
==============================================================================
Mark Turner
mturner@henson.cc.wwu.edu
==============================================================================
From: brianw@.SanDiego.NCR.COM (Brian Williams)
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
Subject: East Mohave Scenic Area Lava Tube
Date: 5 Jan 93 23:01:10 GMT
Reply-To: brianw@.SanDiego.NCR.COM (Brian Williams)
Organization: NCR Corporation, Rancho Bernardo



Anyone out there been into the East Mohave National Scenic Area
between Barstow and the Colorado River ? There is suppossedly a
lava-tube underground cavern type of structure located somewhere
in the Cinder cones area which is north-east of Kelbaker road
near Aiken Mine road. The existence of this cavern is documented
in a guidebook recently published by a woman named Cheri Rae.
(although there was no map or specific directions to the tube.)

I recently spent 3 days in the Scenic area and about 3 hours
searching for the entrance to the lava tube, with no luck
finding it. I concluded we were in the wrong area.

Has anyone out there ever been into the cavern and if so do you
recall how to find it ?

Thanks,
Brian Williams
From: paulm@hpcvra.cv.hp.com (Paul McClellan)
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
Subject: Re: Rainier Best Time
Date: 8 Jan 93 18:40:18 GMT
Organization: Hewlett-Packard Co., Corvallis, OR, USA


>   When is a good time to climb Rainier?  We were thinking about May, but some
>   members of the group expressed concern over that time frame, and think that
>   June or later might be better. 
> 

In a "typical" year, snow avalanches can be a problem until late June, and
rockfall can be a problem starting in August.  So I like July.  However,
this depends so much on the route you wish to take, and the snow conditions
of the particular year, that you should consult the Mt. Rainier National
Park climbing rangers.  Try (206) 569-2211.
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
From: paynter@bnr.ca (Stuart Paynter)
Subject: Re: Altitude sickness preparation
Reply-To: paynter@bnr.ca (Stuart Paynter)
Organization: Bell-Northern Research Ltd.
Date: Tue, 12 Jan 93 13:40:01 GMT

In article <11673@sun13.scri.fsu.edu>, jac@ds8.scri.fsu.edu (Jim Carr) writes:
|> In article <1993Jan11.135645.28611@bmerh85.bnr.ca> paynter@bnr.ca (Stuart Paynter) writes:
|> >
|> >There is an article in the latest American Health magazine on AS.  It 
|> >seems that aerobic capacity does not lessen your chances  of being stricken.
|> >Athletes in good shape are just as susceptible as anyone else.  I haven't
|> >had time to read the article fully, I suggest that you may want to pick
|> >up a copy.
|> 
|> You should post the citation or mail it to Eugene for inclusion in the FAQ. 
|> 

I'll try to read the article and post a summary before the end of the week.  At
the least, I will post the exact issue and page numbers and email Eugene for
inclusion in the FAQ reference list.


Cheers...Stuart
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
From: afd@bellcore.com (Alex F. Dietz)
Subject: Re: Sierra Club Outings
Reply-To: afd@bellcore.com
Organization: Bellcore
Date: Thu, 7 Jan 93 15:23:45 GMT

I took a National Sierra Club outing a couple summers back and loved it.


I'd definately recommend taking one of the service trips.  IMHO it's
better for the spirit to do something for the park, then enjoy the
scenery.  It's the giving-back thang.  It's cheap and you have
something to *do* I mean *really do* for the park. A couple hundred
bucks and someone else takes care of all trip planning, meals, permits, 
hiking schedules, cooking equip, etc. etc.  The service trips are inexpensive
because the Forest Service kicks in some bucks for the work.  You work 
for half the trip, then the other half is your own time.

Age ranges and genders:  We had 13 people, 7 male, 6 female.  Ages ranged
from 21 (college sophomore) to 75 (retired schoolteacher).  

What did I get out of it?  Well.  We had some semi-serious situations that
we pulled ourselves out of via teamwork.  Lots of self satisfaction.  One
interesting part of it all - we, as a group, never talked about the things
that I talk about outside the wilderness such as politics, movies, books and
such.  In fact, in the 10 days, I never once talked this.  It simply wasn't
important.  We were doing good work in BEEEYOOOUUUUTIFUL country and loving
every minute of it.

-A Dietz
Bellcore, Morristown
afd@cc.bellcore.com
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
From: akarpowicz@mta.ca (Adam Karpowicz)
Subject: climbing equipment
Reply-To: akarpowicz@mta.ca
Organization: Mount Allison U, Sackville, N.B. Canada 
Date: Thu, 7 Jan 1993 23:50:26 GMT


Does anyone know a supplier of climbing equipment in Canada,
preferably east/central? Mail-order of course.

Thanks in advance

Adam
From: hall@vice.ICO.TEK.COM (Hal F Lillywhite)
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
Subject: Re: Anyone climb Mt. Washington recently?
Date: 11 Jan 93 20:25:39 GMT
Organization: Tektronix Inc., Beaverton, Or.

In article <1993Jan8.053606.184@midway.uchicago.edu> bejohnst@midway.uchicago.edu writes:
>  I skipped windgear for my head
>and was a little cold, but O.K.  (The head can radiate a lot of heat without
>damage).  

You might want to think about this.  Yes, the head can keep itself 
warm very well, after all it gets first call on available heat (or 
shares top priority with the heart).  Other body parts, especially 
the hands and feet, get left-overs.  Let your heat escape through 
your head and neck and you are likely to get cold hands and feet.
Worse, the heat loss can contribute to hypothermia even if your head
doesn't feel cold.
From: alan@elroy.Jpl.Nasa.Gov (Alan S. Mazer)
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
Subject: Re: More Water Filter questions
Date: 12 Jan 1993 16:55:02 GMT
Organization: Image Analysis Systems Group, JPL
NNTP-Posting-Host: cogswell.jpl.nasa.gov

In article <1993Jan9.162650.46266@kuhub.cc.ukans.edu> jamiller@kuhub.cc.ukans.edu writes:
>Are water filters likely to *freeze*? And if so are there suggestions
>on whether there are safe uses under such conditions or ways to *thaw*
>them?

Yes, water filters freeze.  I left my MSR (outside) on top my pack one night
and when I got up in the morning it was frozen solid.  I just let it warm up
enough that I could disassemble it and then I thoroughly cleaned the ice out
of every nook and cranny.  Took about half an hour I suppose.  I sleep with
it now.  It was rather amusing actually.  It really should have occurred to
me that that might happen.  It had started snowing on us about 3 in the 
afternoon.  On the other hand, this was outside L.A. in November and everyone
knows Southern California never gets cold enough to freeze anything :-^.
-- 
 
-- Alan                        # Mountain Dew and doughnuts...
   ..!ames!elroy!alan          # because breakfast is the most important meal
   alan@elroy.jpl.nasa.gov     # of the day.
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry,rec.climbing
From: allen%asylum.cs.utah.edu@cs.utah.edu (Allen Sanderson)
Subject: Re: Big new landfill next to J-Tree?
Date: 8 Jan 93 10:26:19 MST
Organization: University of Utah CS Dept

tucker@shiva.UUCP (George Tucker) writes:
> 
>As I understand it, there is a widespread opinion that this is the
>best site for a major landfill IF one must be created somewhere.  This
>does not mean that the specifics of the existing proposal are optimal,
>or that other means of reducing waste are superfluous, but it does
>mean kneejerk opposition may be misplaced.

>Do you know a better site?

I know that this comment is going to piss some people off but ...

Let the big the cities stew in their own shit for once, build the dam
landfill right in the middle of LA so everybody living there can wake up
and smell the roses so to speak.  Utah and many other western desert
states are becoming the dumping ground for other states. There is a
county in Utah is already starting to take waste from LA.  Sure it
means jobs for locally depressed towns but it does not solve the
problem.  Creating new land fills is like banning abortion without
teaching bill control.  There needs to be laws which require any and
all people as well as companies to reduce, reuse, recycle as much as
possible.  Yes, this is going to increase the cost of some products but
which would you prefer an increase the cost of goods while preserving
part of the world or an increase in land fill costs while trashing
part of the world (pun intended).  For far too long the US has been the
epitome of waste and LA is probably the best example (this comes from
someone who has lived in LA and well small rural towns).  By recycling
as must as possible we are lucky to have to take the garbage out once
a month (I'm talking about a paper bag worth here folks).  So if LA
and Riverside countries want a new landfill let then built it were
everybody lives and not destroy even more desert land that is being
used by other more worthy critters.

Okay off my soap box,

Allen R. Sanderson

Salt Lake City, Oootah


"Great spirits have always encounter violent opposition from
mediocre minds."
	- Albert Einstein
Newsgroups: rec.backcountry
From: bernd@iss.nus.sg (Bernd Nordhausen)
Subject: Re: Altitude sickness preparation
Organization: Institute Of Systems Science, NUS
X-Newsreader: Tin 1.1 PL4
Date: Mon, 11 Jan 1993 01:11:47 GMT

jamiller@kuhub.cc.ukans.edu writes:
: My wife had pretty bad reaction to altitude (at around 8500) and I'm
: trying to remember what is best in preparation.  I never have problems
: with altitude up to 14000 or so (played bagpipes all though high
: school :) so I didn't pay much attention to that stuff in the past.
: 
: She wants to know routines that will help here prepare best.  Like
: whether swimming is better than running...
: -- 
: jamiller@kuhub.cc.ukans.edu
: James Miller
: 
: _chicchai .sig no ho ga ichiban iin janai ka..._
:              Enlightenment Happens?

One of my first backpacking trips into higher elevation (>11,000 Ft) I had
altitude sickness up to the point of vomitting. In trips afterwards I 
a) tried not to get too high during the first few days,
b) took frequent breaks during the ascent, 
c) drank lots and lots of water, and 
d) took generous of Aspirin. 

I was told that Aspirin is a "blood thinner" which increases blood circulation. 
I am not sure whether this is true, but it helped me to get over 13,000 ft 
without any problems.
--
   Bernd Nordhausen (bernd@iss.nus.sg)
   Institute of Systems Science                           Ph: +65 772-6240 
   National University of Singapore                      FAX: +65 778-2571
   Singapore 0511