HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: middleto@poincare.ucsd.edu (Tom Middleton ; System Manager)
Newsgroups: rec.nude
Subject: Re: 'Selling' nudism
Date: 21 Jul 92 18:39:21 GMT
Organization: Institute for NonLinear Science, UCSD
NNTP-Posting-Host: poincare.ucsd.edu

In article <> arnett@unixg.ubc.ca (Bill Arnett) writes:
>                             			But the best thing is to
>use the media to do your advertising for you---create a news release and
>send it out on the wire.

A group in Florida did this very effectively recently.  For National Nude
Weekend they had a clothing drive for the needy.  The hook was "shed your
clothes to provide clothing for those in need" and it made it to at least
one San Diego t.v. news show.

I think this would be an excellent way to get some good press for nudists.
Maybe next year during NNW we can have a nationwide (or worldwide!) drive
to collect clothes at nude beaches and resorts.  "Come on down to Blacks
Beach, take your clothes off, throw them in a box for the needy, then enjoy
the sun and go home naked!"

[So, Pat O'Brien and TNS, are you out there?  Did you read this?  What
say you?]

[Steve Pierce, do you know what group did this?  The news did say it was
in Florida but I don't remember where or who.]

-- 
	Thomas Earl Middleton
	middleto@poincare.ucsd.edu
	aka Happy Bare
Newsgroups: rec.nude
From: cliffg@gjetor.geac.com (Cliff Goldstein)
Subject: Re: Gwen Jacobs on Silly Jesse Raphael
Keywords: Television, Gwen Jacobs
Organization: Geac Canada Ltd.
Date: 21 Jul 92 14:28:31 GMT

        Congratulations to Gwen Jacobs for her appearance on the
Silly Jesse Raphael show seen locally Monday.  Her answers, WHEN
she was allowed to speak AND could be heard over the rest of the
crowd, were articulate and thoughtful. Unfortunately, due to the
way the show is orchestrated things usually degrade to the point
where everyone is trying to shout their opinions louder than the
rest of the "panel". In this case it was a pregnant "Church Lady"
and one slightly uptight mother vs the rest.

          One bit of possibly helpful advice for Gwen for future
appearances though.   It's one thing to be passionate about some
issue.  It's another to be able to channel it without seeming to
lose control.  Be energetic.  Be enthusiastic.  Get your message
across.  But try not to seem too angry. It makes it too easy for
people to dismiss the issue with the person.   Like someone once
said, "Never let them see you sweat."
----------------------------------------------------------------
Cliff Goldstein                           cliffg@gjetor.geac.com
----------------------------------------------------------------
P.S. And if this isn't the neatest posting on the net today I'll
     appear topless on television myself.  8-)
----------------------------------------------------------------
Newsgroups: rec.nude
Subject: Re: nude swimming question
From: dsolis@koko.csustan.edu (Djelrik Solis)
Date: Thu, 30 Jul 92 08:36:16 GMT
Organization: CSU Stanislaus


>In rec.nude, pruss@helix.nih.gov (dmitry pruss) writes:
>>Among ather funny things, he describes a small catfish called vandella
>>(sp??) which is allegedly attracted by a smell of urine. He claims that the
>>fish enters genitalia channels and can't go away anymore.
>
>>Can anybody comment?

	As I understand it, these fish are only found in rather remote parts
of the Amazon Basin.

_______________
Djelrik
Newsgroups: rec.nude
From: Michael_Pizolato@afs.com (Michael Pizolato)
Subject: Re: Getting naked
Reply-To: Michael_Pizolato@afs.com
Date: Wed, 29 Jul 1992 20:41:27 GMT

In article <151hfiINN1bo@smaug.West.Sun.COM> Richard.Mathews@West.Sun.COM  
(Richard M. Mathews) writes:
> Why let even that small cloth weigh you down and constrain your motions?

I was watching Olympic swimming last night (my goodness, they do fly through the  
water!), and had the same thought, "Why do they wear their suits at all?"  I  
guessed that it has something to do with slipping through the water more  
quickly, because the suits they wear compress various body parts, thus making  
the body silhouette more aero(hydro?)dynamic.  But, like wearing heavy coats in  
cold winter areas, this is only clothing serving a specialized, useful purpose.   
Without such a reason to wear clothes, we shouldn't have to.

Michael

--
Michael_Pizolato@afs.com
~18 kyu
Q16
NeXTMail appreciated
From: middleto@poincare.ucsd.edu (Tom Middleton ; System Manager)
Newsgroups: rec.nude
Subject: Re: sex vs nudity
Date: 27 Jul 1992 21:33:45 GMT
Organization: Institute for NonLinear Science, UCSD
NNTP-Posting-Host: poincare.ucsd.edu

In article <1992Jul26.212559.1@engr> s_mesbah@engr writes:
>Just a question for the readers of this group.  Is there many occurrences of
>sexual behaviour on nude beaches.  The reason I ask is that I am 100%
>heterosexual to the core and if I went to a nudist beach I wouldn't be able to
>control my sexual drive.  Being just inches away from penetrating a female
>would drive me nuts!  Just curious

Well Sam, I hope you continue to read this group and learn from it.  I'll
assume you are serious and try to give a serious answer.

re: sexual behaviour - There are not many occurances of sexual behaviour on
nude beaches.  It is generally frowned upon by regular nude beach users, not
because we are opposed to sex (we aren't) but because sexual activity is the
tool or excuse used by nude-o-phobes to shut down nude beaches.  We work
hard to separate the two even though it shouldn't be necessary.  It would
require at least two (well, one if you count sex with yourself) people to
be extreme exhibitionists or extremely uninhibited and thoughtless (possibly
due to alcohol or drugs) to engage in such activity in a public area with
other people around.  But it does happen on rare occassions.

re: heterosexual to the core - It makes no difference if you are 100% het or
50% or 0% or whatever.  There are all sorts of people at nude beaches, some
you will take a liking to and some you won't.  You might even bring your
favorite motas with you.

re: wouldn't be able to control my sexual drive - Give yourself more credit.
I am sure you spend much time controlling your sexual drive.  When an attrac-
tive person walks into your office or classroom you don't instantly jump her
bones.  (Well, at least I don't think you do.)  You will learn that mere nudity
is NOT an invitation to sex and you will learn to respect that.  If you don't
you are likely to end up being charged with rape.

re: inches away - Judging from your post you may already be nuts.  Oops,
sorry about that, I said I was going to be serious.  Anyway, chances are if
you are just inches away this is a person with whom you have had some previous
sexual contact.  Being just inches away from a stranger or even a friend is
not likely.  So if this is a sex partner you are just inches away from then
being driven nuts is only going to enhance your sex life.  Think about it,
you go to the beach and get naked, rub suntan oil on each other, start thinking
about sex but can't do anything about it because of all the people around.
You keep thinking about for all the hours you are on the beach, finally you
get to the privacy of your lovenest.  Bam, its like all that time on the beach
was (mental) foreplay.  You can only hope she feels the same way and then it
is going to be great.

-- 
	Thomas Earl Middleton
	middleto@poincare.ucsd.edu
	aka Happy Bare
From: ables@h.cs.wvu.wvnet.edu (Christopher Ables, )
Newsgroups: rec.nude
Subject: Re: Starting a Youth nudist group
Date: 22 Jul 92 05:28:33 GMT
Originator: ables@a.cs.wvu.wvnet.edu

From article <1992Jul20.040549.20286@minyos.xx.rmit.oz.au>, by s884764@otto.bf.rmit.oz.au (Grant Waldram [Atom Smash]):
> 
> Well, it's happened. Any oz readers who get Sun & Health regularly will
> probably know about VYNE already, but for those of you who remember me
> talking about setting up a nudist group for young people a bit less than
> a year ago, It's been done. We're having a sort of preliminary meeting
> next Wednesday (so I should have done this earlier - hey, I was skiing :)
> and I am just posting this here to get some ideas out of people as to
> how they thing we should go about publicising ourselves (Uni campuses?),

Sounds interesting...

Could you send me more information about the youth nudist group via
posting or e-mail.  Where did it originate?  Any other info would be
helpful, too.  Thanx!

Chris
From: naturist@igc.org (Pat O'Brien)
Newsgroups: rec.nude
Subject: Re: All the people (was Re: Embarrassed
Date: 30 Jul 92 01:18:00 GMT
Nf-ID: #R:155dqeINNhpq@network.ucsd.edu:-1642266757:cdp:1457200021:000:839
Nf-From: cdp.UUCP!naturist    Jul 29 18:18:00 1992


Tom:
	I'm not sure where this will come down in your argument, but here
goes anyway.
	You do not mention that sex on beaches is the number 1 problem
threatening clothing-optional sites in this country. Overt sex is the thing
most federal, state and other officials say is the most objectionable thing
about having nude beaches or other nude recreation areas.
	There has been much talk by the officials we have dialogs with who
have been quick to pin the rap for overt sex on gay couples, but it is clear
from your earlier note as well as from our experience at TNS and on the 
Naturist Action Committee that both straights and gays are guilty of 
participation in public sex acts.
	The message must remain: Don't do it. It is indefensible and it is
illegal. Sex and our Naturist cause  Sex in public and our Naturist cause do not mix.
Pat
From: middleto@poincare.ucsd.edu (Tom Middleton ; System Manager)
Newsgroups: rec.nude
Subject: All the people (was Re: Embarrassed at the CO Beach.)
Date: 29 Jul 92 06:28:30 GMT
Organization: Institute for NonLinear Science, UCSD
NNTP-Posting-Host: poincare.ucsd.edu


Many other good posts have discussed this issue but there is one part
of it I would like to say something about.

In article <> larry@panix.com (Larry Benjamin) writes:
>the entrance of the CO part of the beach there was not one but 
>two separate couples (heterosexual) engaging in sexual activity, plus 
>at least one single man watching and masturbating (enjoying the show!). 
>My neighbor could not stop complaining about how all the people on 
						  ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>the beach were perverts and that she was disgusted and didn't want to 
>be there.  
 
It is an unfortunate feature of our society that many people will observe
an activity and then assume a large group of loosely associated people
share in it.  I don't know how many people were at the beach that day but
it seems only five of them were engaged in sexual activity with perhaps a
few more watching.  From this Larrys neighbor has decided that "all the
people" on the beach were perverts (and the definition of a pervert isn't
the isssue here).  I am sure that many more people on the beach had nothing
to do with the sexual activity.  Why is this person judging the entire beach
by the activities of a few people?

It is this persons attitude, which I suspect to be typical, that makes us
militant nudists uptight about the association of sex and nudity.  Of course
there are some people that will always tie the two together, but the majority
of nudists just enjoy the feel of the environment on their bodies and don't
like the restrictions of clothes.  If outsiders would learn to recognize us
by the actions of the majority rather than the actions of a few we wouldn't
have half the problems we do now.

Anyway, Larry, if you saw some volleyball players ask your neighbor if she
thinks all nudists are volleyball players.  If you saw people building
sand castles ask her if all nudists build sand castles.  If you saw people
jogging ask her if she thinks all nudists are joggers.  Use a few other
examples, presumably she'll say "no, I don't think all nudists ___".  Then
ask her why she thinks all nudists are perverts because a few of them were
careless in their sexual activities.

Sorry for this ranting and raving here.  I hope we all can remember throughout
our lives not to judge an entire group on the actions of a few.

-- 
Thomas Earl Middleton		| Camping Bares:  "An Anarchist Disorganization
aka Happy Bare			| Dedicated to the Destruction of the Fabric of
middleto@poincare.ucsd.edu	| Our Society"
From: boylan@sltg04.ljo.dec.com (Steve Boylan)
Newsgroups: rec.nude
Subject: Re: sex vs nudity
Date: 27 Jul 92 18:49:53 GMT
Reply-To: boylan@sltg04.ljo.dec.com (Steve Boylan)
Organization: Digital Equipment Corporation


In article <1992Jul26.212559.1@engr>, s_mesbah@engr writes:

> Just a question for the readers of this group.  Is there many occurrences of
> sexual behaviour on nude beaches.  The reason I ask is that I am 100%
> heterosexual to the core and if I went to a nudist beach I wouldn't be able to
> control my sexual drive.  Being just inches away from penetrating a female
> would drive me nuts!  Just curious
> 
> regards,
> Sam

Sorry, kids -

<FLAME ON>

Perhaps I'm alone in finding the above-quoted post offensive and downright
frightening, but to me, this reads like someone who's ready to commit rape.

Being a heterosexual is no excuse for not being able to control one's sex
drive.  There may be any number of reasons why Sam is unable to do so -
immaturity, isolation, loneliness, or more serious problems - but if he
can't learn real fast that his partners should fully consent to being
penetrated, he should seek professional help RIGHT NOW.

I'm sorry if this rubs anybody the wrong way, but I for one will NOT tolerate
the attitude implicit in this posting that it's not rape or that rape
can be excused by "I couldn't help myself!"

<FLAME OFF>

Whew!  Ouch!

Now, in a more calm voice . . .

I do hope that rape was NOT on Sam's mind when he wrote the above, but
the message as written hit a sore spot.  Yes, I've read the follow-ups
as far as <84464@netnews.upenn.edu> from Matthew Stein.  The first 2
discussed beach etiquette, but didn't address the threat of sexual
assault.  As for the last, Matthew writes:

> Personally, I don't really think that Sam deserved this much abuse,
> but I do think "How old are you???" is a pretty apt question.  I think
> most of us would agree that this post shows Sam's lack of experience
> in CO recreation.

I'm not sure what you consider "abuse", but I'm pretty sure this fits
your definition in this case!  Every time I re-read Sam's posting, it
threatens a sexual assault, and (as I stated above) that is not something
I can tolerate - particularly in a forum such as this, which assumes that
personal freedom is a worthwhile goal.  I assert that, implicit in the
freedom for us to enjoy nature without clothes, is a more fundamental
right to enjoy nature without the fear of sexual assault.

				- - Steve
Newsgroups: rec.nude
From: lib@cbnews.cb.att.com (Lib)
Subject: Smith Point State Park
Organization: AT&T
Distribution: usa
Date: Mon, 27 Jul 1992 15:37:41 GMT

   
Could the person who offered to supply directions to Smith Point
State Park please do so. I don't have the world guide.
   
Thank you.
From: stein@grip.cis.upenn.edu (Matthew Stein)
Newsgroups: rec.nude
Subject: Re: A survey
Date: 23 Jul 92 14:17:43 GMT
Organization: GRASP Lab, University of Pennsylvania

In article <1992Jul22.191632.3053@desire.wright.edu> mborgerding@desire.wright.edu writes:
>TWIMC,
>	I was wondering a few things about the *average* person's sex life.
>Please take the time to fill out this survey, please try to be truthful.
>I will post (anonymously) some statistics/responses.
>

[Extensive Sex Survey deleted]

Zounds, we've had the Nudity != Sex (not equal for 'C' weenies like
myself) discussion here before.  The posting of this survey to this
newsgroup shows us we have a lot of work to do to get this message
across.

Actually, the distribution list
talk.bizarre,rec.nude,soc.singles,soc.couples is a bit strange.  Isn't
there an alt.sex?

Matthew R. Stein            | Fourth Law of Robotics:
GRASP Laboratory            | "A robot must keep it's capabilities secret
University of Pennsylvania  | from human beings.  This is especially true for
Philadelphia, P.A. 19104    | faculty advisors and heads of funding agencies"
From: dcgreen@pro-harold.cts.com (David Green)
Newsgroups: rec.nude
Subject: Re: Starting a Youth nudist group
Date: 22 Jul 92 17:54:39 GMT
Article-I.D.: pro-haro.gm39763
Organization: The Harold Network -- An Alliance For Creative Communication

In <1992Jul20.040549.20286@minyos.xx.rmit.oz.au>
s884764@otto.bf.rmit.oz.au (Grant Waldram [Atom Smash]) writes:

>Well, it's happened. Any oz readers who get Sun & Health regularly will
>probably know about VYNE already, but for those of you who remember me
>talking about setting up a nudist group for young people a bit less than
>a year ago, It's been done. We're having a sort of preliminary meeting
>next Wednesday (so I should have done this earlier - hey, I was skiing :)
>and I am just posting this here to get some ideas out of people as to
>how they thing we should go about publicising ourselves (Uni campuses?),
>what wording we might use on brochures, pamphlets etc...


An aside -- When I was in high school back in the '60s, Regis Philbin (who
worked for a TV station here in San Diego at the time) came to our school 
and spoke on the evils of a magazine called "Teenage Nudists."
 
Sorry to interrupt. We now return you to your regularly scheduled nudes, 
er, news.

;>

===========================================
David Green      dcgreen@pro-harold.cts.com
-------------------------------------------
     System Operator of Pro-Harold BBS
   "Moral Support For Intelligent Sorts"
===========================================
Newsgroups: rec.nude
From: rsilvers@nynexst.com (Rob Silvers)
Subject: Re: sex vs nudity
Organization: Nynex Science and Technology
Date: Wed, 29 Jul 92 16:36:24 GMT

In article <Bs3ss0.766@xrtll.uucp> stephane@xrtll.uucp (Stephane Deschenes) writes:
>
>Your question demonstrates one of the main problems of our society. Namely
>that men "have no control over their sexual urges".  It is a sickening
>excuse which I have often heard for everything including rape. 
>Men are rational, thinking humans and like women, can control their sexual
>urges.

>Stephane
>

	How would you know how men think?  I sure have never figured out how
woman think.  Of course "not being able to control yourself" is no excuse for
rape, etc.  But, keep in mind, that most men DESIRE sex constantly.  Every day.
Did you see "When Harry Met Sally?"  Billy Crystal was right.  Men evalute
every woman they see as a possible sex partner.  If they don't evalute someone,
it is because that peticular woman was totally out of the question.  Remember
though, this is desire.  It does not give men the right to act on it.

--Rob.


Newsgroups: rec.nude
From: stephane@xrtll.uucp (Stephane Deschenes)
Subject: Re: Easy Access To Black Beach
Organization: WCOM Public Access Unix - Toronto
Date: Wed, 22 Jul 1992 03:31:48 GMT

In article <29626@ursa.UUCP> millman@ursa.UUCP (Phillip Millman) writes:
>Well the conversation is now moot.  Even thought we will be going to 
>SD, she feels "too Ugly" to go to any beach.  Oh well.  Maybe next
>time (with the Kid :-)

Personally, I find pregnant women beautiful.  In some ways even sexy.
Besides, isn't the idea of nudist and naturist to not be judgemental
about bodies? 
Oh well... I guess you can't argue with the emotional swings of a pregnant
woman.  At least that's my experience. :)

Stephane
From: middleto@poincare.ucsd.edu (Tom Middleton ; System Manager)
Newsgroups: rec.nude
Subject: Re: nude education
Date: 22 Jul 92 17:30:03 GMT
Article-I.D.: network.14k5urINN79a
Organization: Institute for NonLinear Science, UCSD
NNTP-Posting-Host: poincare.ucsd.edu

In article <> stephane@xrtll.uucp (Stephane Deschenes) writes:
>No, the subject line doesn't mean I'm going to talk about making public
>schools clothing optional :)

Too bad, I like the idea! :-)

>How can we get people to understand why nude is better?
>How can you convince people that CO beaches are a worthwhile cause?

I think the point I would like to get across is that CHOICE is better.  Nude
for me is more comfortable and is my choice but there are times when it is
not better and people for whom it is not better.  However, the freedom to
choose nude or not nude is always better.  CO beaches are a worthwhile cause
because they offer the freedom to chose.

-- 
	Thomas Earl Middleton
	middleto@poincare.ucsd.edu
	aka Happy Bare
Newsgroups: rec.nude
From: Mark.Cornick@bbs.oit.unc.edu (Mark Cornick)
Subject: Re: A survey
Summary: What does this have to do with rec.nude?
Organization: Extended Bulletin Board Service
Date: Thu, 23 Jul 1992 05:01:15 GMT

Recently a sex survey was posted to rec.nude. I would like the poster to
explain what any of it has to do with rec.nude.


--
   The opinions expressed are not necessarily those of the University of
     North Carolina at Chapel Hill, the Campus Office for Information
        Technology, or the Experimental Bulletin Board Service.
           internet:  bbs.oit.unc.edu or 152.2.22.80
From: tjw@vms.cis.pitt.edu (TJ Wood)
Newsgroups: rec.nude
Subject: Re: A survey
Date: 23 Jul 92 16:15:19 GMT
Organization: University of Pittsburgh

In article <1992Jul23.050115.20369@samba.oit.unc.edu>, Mark.Cornick@bbs.oit.unc.edu (Mark Cornick) writes:

> Recently a sex survey was posted to rec.nude. I would like the poster to
> explain what any of it has to do with rec.nude.

Obviously NUDITY == SEX.

I like it better when they say "TEST" instead of SURVEY.

Terry
From: middleto@poincare.ucsd.edu (Tom Middleton ; System Manager)
Newsgroups: rec.nude
Subject: Re: EXHIBITIONIST VS NATURIST
Date: 31 Jul 1992 19:14:47 GMT
Organization: Institute for NonLinear Science, UCSD
NNTP-Posting-Host: poincare.ucsd.edu

In article <> Tom.Martens@f583.n107.z1.ieee.org (Tom Martens) writes:
>Got a problem that I would like your opinions on....when does naturiism
>become exhibitionism

Naturism doesn't become exhibitionism, they are two different things.
Naturism involves the enjoyment of nature in your natural (birth) state
of undress.  Exhibitionism (in the most commonly accepted sense) involves
getting a sexual thrill out of exposing your body, usually to unsuspecting
victims or witnesses.

>She leaves me who was stuck upstairs taking tickets and goes downstairs
>to make sure the people in the pool are all right.......After about 40
>minutes when she doesn't come back up I went down and found her nude
>in the pool with all of the guys standing around her talking.....

Maybe she was just being a business woman responding to the needs of her
consumers.  There is certainly nothing wrong with talking to your guests/
customers and if she didn't socialize and if she wasn't nude they might be
asking for their money back.  What do you think would have been the effect
if you had said "O.K. xxx, you go back upstairs and take tickets while I
get naked and talk to the nice gentlemen"?

>My question is do you naturists consider one naked female with 7 nude  
>men an exhibitionist?????  

I suppose I would consider her lucky.  I am sure she was enjoying the attention
and maybe she was getting sexually turned on by it.  If she was your girlfriend
at the time you should have considered yourself lucky because you would be the
one benefitting from that turn-on.  If you turned it into an argument and broke
up because of it that is your loss.

>                           Please if there are any females out there also
>give me your impression if you would go nude with seven naked male strangers
>or do you consider this a exhibitionist also.   

Tom, ask yourself this, Would YOU go nude with seven naked FEMALE strangers?
If your answer is yes (and mine sure as hell would be) then you should back
off and not be so quick to judge your ex.  We can not tolerate double standards.


-- 
Thomas Earl Middleton		| Camping Bares:  "An Anarchist Disorganization
aka Happy Bare			| Dedicated to the Destruction of the Fabric of
middleto@poincare.ucsd.edu	| Our Society"
Newsgroups: rec.nude