From: rstevew@deeptht.armory.com (Richard Steven Walz)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books,rec.humor,alt.folklore.urban,rec.arts.sf.misc
Subject: Re: Agnostics and Athiests
Date: 25 Aug 92 22:22:53 GMT
Organization: The Armory

In article <1992Aug7.181015.5089@doug.cae.wisc.edu> pochanay@cae.wisc.edu (Adisak Pochanayon) writes:
>In article <1992Aug7.164219.4889@news2.cis.umn.edu> alberti@mudhoney.micro.umn.edu (Albatross) writes:
>>In <bcrawfor.712895798@sol.UVic.CA> bcrawfor@sol.UVic.CA (Bryan Crawford) says:
>>
>>  2.5- God is moot.  (No evidence supports it.  Logic supports it.)
>>
>>Where the difference between evidence and logic is tangibility.
>>
>>Then let's look at the logic:
>>  
>>  The Postulates:
>>    God exists.
>>    God is sentient.
>>    God created the universe.
>>    God is omniscient, omnipresent, all-powerful and perfect.
>>    God affects with the universe.
>>    God judges.
>>
>>    Humanity is not perfect.
>>    Humanity has free will.
>>
>
>   There's obviously something wrong with your postulates...
>
>   1)  If GOD is perfect and all-powerful, then anything he does would be
>       done perfectly.
--------------------
horse doo-doo - nothing can prove that need be true except that we can
see you desire it to be so. If a god is omnipotent, and omnipresent,
then god must do all things, even be imperfect.

        Since he created man with flaws, he is not perfect.
---------------------------
And so that doesn't follow either.

>       The Bible says that GOD created man in his own image.  Therefore, he
>       tried to make man perfect. 
-------------------------
Maybe he wanted him to have the same nose. Bibles are lousy places to
get anything. Too much jerking the translation around, and we don't
even know but what a total dweeb wrote it.

---------------------------
You forget, there is no proof that we have free-will. If you say it is
self evident, then you must answer for why you cannot change what you
have already done, as it is as certain as any fact, and therefore
could not have been different than it is. You can not prove that
another entity is not pulling your strings, and you, being the strings
pulled, even in your mind, could not detect it.

>
>CONCLUSION:
>
>The religious system of reasoning can not exist because even the postulates
>are flawed.  I will admit that if there is a GOD (I don't believe in one),
>that there is no way to scientifically or logically prove his existance.
----------------------
You are trying to prove a negative, which cannot be done.

  The
>ONLY PROOF OF A GOD is absolute BLIND FAITH.  To believe that everything else
>you hear contradictory to your theory of GOD is wrong and to ignore any doubts.
>Only by clearing you mind of scientific process and logic and allowing an inner
>sense of confusion and distortion to reign chaos in your mind can you somehow
>snap and find the perfect being, GOD, who somehow exists while breaking all
>the rules.
-------------------
Poetic, but also not proved because it requires a negative. You simply
haven't found another way to fathom divinity yet.
What if someone snaps and finds something totally different than what
you said? :)
-rsw

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