HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
Original_To:  BITNET%"POLITICS@OHSTVMA.BITNET"
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.politics
Date:         Sat, 23 Jan 1993 23:52:00 EDT
From:         CLARK@EVMSVMS.BITNET
Subject:      Re: Bushwhacking Saddam

Right, Kerry - and the press sending home raw footage every night from the
Vietnam Theatre didn't hurt the US military, eh?  The press didn't reveal
the major lies and crimes being perpetrated in SE Asia by the US military?

The military didn't learn from this process - and so keep the press on
short leases during Super Norman Bros in the Gulf?

Why else did we have to wait 8-10 months after the end of that conflict to
find out that Bush, Cheney, Powell, Schwartkopf, etc were blatantly lying
about effectiveness figures, friendly fire, success rates of operations, etc?

If all the screw-ups of that "war" - and you can't see the figures and call
it anything else but a dismal failure - were reported AS they happened, the
US public would have put an end to GHWB's Image Enhancement Program (a better
name for it than OpDesStorm).

Keep 'em blind, and they just might re-elect you.

Guess what George?  We Looked - We Saw - We Voted Your Ass Out Of Office.


-T.
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Date:         Mon, 25 Jan 1993 13:18:00 EST
From:         league for fighting chartered accountancy <SWEDE@DRYCAS.BITNET>
Subject:      Thurgood Marshall, rest in peace
Comments: To: politics@ohstvma.bitnet

Thurgood Marshall, former supreme court justice and giant in the struggle
for civil rights, died yesterday, at the age of 84.

Gary W. Olson
SWEDE@DRYCAS.CLUB.CC.CMU.EDU
SWEDE@DRYCAS.BITNET
From: dreitman@oregon.uoregon.edu (Daniel R. Reitman, Attorney to Be)
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.politics
Subject: Re:      Re: The good old days
Date: 22 Jan 1993 15:44 PST
Organization: University of Oregon
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In article <POLITICS%93012215252157@UCF1VM.CC.UCF.EDU>,     
    "Peter J. Schledorn" <UNCPJS@UNC.OIT.UNC.EDU> writes...
>The American worker doesn't need to be freed from government.  Freed
>from his boss is another matter.  There's a company in California that
>docks its workers if they show up with a hickey.  They claim it's
>because it distracts the customers.  There's another one here that fired
>someone because he wouldn't falsify interstate trucking logs.  There's
>nothing wrong with American workers, all right, but American management
>needs a kick in the ass.

The trucking log person should have a good wrongful termination suit. Refusing
to do something contrary to public policy is a recognized exception to
employment at will contracts.

							Dan, ad nauseum
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Date:         Wed, 27 Jan 1993 18:03:31 EST
From:         Kerry Stephenson <KSTE@PURCCVM.BITNET>
Subject:      Re: Re:Monday musings
              27 Jan 1993 15:47:41 CST from <T9AA@SDSUMUS.SDSTATE.EDU>

KAT, Dave, etc:

Hang on a minute.  What kind of UN voting are you talking about?

In the Security Council, the US has a veto.

In the General Assembly (everybody, for those of you in Rio Linda),
the US has no more importance than, say, Belgium.

Only the members of the Security Council are involved in Security
Council voting, and the US often votes *against* General
Assembly actions that are passed anyway.

The US doesn't own the UN.

--NINAR Kerry
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Date:         Tue, 26 Jan 1993 14:38:48 PDT
From:         Stan Jacobs <JACOBS@125LAW1.LAW.UCLA.EDU>
Subject:      Re: Reagan's legacy and the politics of the SC
Comments: To: POLITICS@ucf1vm.cc.ucf.edu

>
>         The prez has the edge.  The court can't introduce bills in congress.
>

What's the use of introducing bills in Congress if the Courts can
just strike them down?  It's not a very significant edge that the
President has, is it?

--STAN
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Newsgroups: bit.listserv.politics
Date:         Thu, 21 Jan 1993 23:56:00 EDT
From:         CLARK@EVMSVMS.BITNET
Subject:      RE: 12:01 PM

Carl says: (stuff deleted)

>Clinton.  I only hope that the nation prospers under his leadership.

Ever hear of the phrase "nowhere to go but up?"

-T.
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Date:         Sat, 23 Jan 1993 17:20:51 CST
From:         Titivillus <T9AA@SDSUMUS.SDSTATE.EDU>
Subject:      Re: Saint Richard
Comments: To: POLITICS@ucf1vm.cc.ucf.edu

> >According to some sources, some people were running a prostitution
> >ring out of  (among other places) DNC headquarters...


>         By that token, some sources
> have been quoted as saying that Elvis is still alive, and aliens
> had a pre-election parley with Bill Clinton...

Phunny.

>         The book you're referring to, "Silent Coup" has been relegated
> to the same section as the JFK conspiracy epics.  Honestly, when
> you got to the part where Al Haig was helping John Dean in the
> unseating of Nixon, didn't you begin to get the drift?

Yes and no. The book I was refering to is _It's A Conspiracy by
the National Insecurity Council (EarthWorks Press, 1992) and to
be fair, their book does contain a fair number of Elvis conspiracies.
However, it does reference _Silent Coup (I pulled it off my shelf
after posting) and I have not read _Silent Coup. Therefore, I have
not heard the bit about Haig and Dean nailing Nixon. I cannot
honestly believe that either one thought that Ford would be all
that much better.

On the other hand, there are things about even the Woodstein version
that don't quite add up. I might have a dirty mind, resorting to
prostitutes and all that, but there are parts to that theory that
make sense to me.

At least, more sense than CREEP bugging the DNC in order to beat
MCGOVERN.

>                                 Travlr...

Dave
t9aa@sdsumus.sdstate.edu
I don't belong to an organized political party: I'm a Democrat!
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Date:         Sat, 23 Jan 1993 23:35:00 EDT
From:         CLARK@EVMSVMS.BITNET
Subject:      RE: Rush Limbaugh & Politics

pcs$1703@ALTAIR.SELU.EDU says:

>For a informative view on politics listen to Rush Limbaugh on the
>AM dial.

Why?  Does he transmit on the FM dial?


-T.
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Date:         Wed, 27 Jan 1993 20:08:57 -0500
From:         KILBURN@WVSVAX.WVNET.EDU
Subject:      Re: Hillary & Health Care

Hi again, NINAR:

>According to a PBS documentary on the backgrounds of Bush and
>Clinton, Bill and Hillary determined *beforehand* what they
>wanted done in education, and then Hillary was sent out to
>convince everybody that it ought to be done.

Did they make it up themselves, or did they get some advice?  It kind of
makes a difference.  I'd think it'd be much easier to get folks to agree on
a more-or-less firm plan of action than on the "let's raise taxes then
we'll figure out what to do with it" plan.

>She did a deal with the teachers' union to get them to accept
>teacher testing by promising them they would all pass.  And
>they did.  All evidence indicate that anyone who had gotten past
>third grade (even in Arkansas, where it is considered "higher
>education") could have passed that test.

Bad news.  Of course, our teacher-ed majors have to take standardized tests
in their subject areas, too.  I've seen them, and am not really impressed.
They're not ridiculously easy -- they're just not particularly relevant.
For the record, I like the idea of competency testing, but think it's
probably really tough to do right (not impossible -- just difficult).

>More money isn't necessarily a good thing.

But it's not necessarily a bad thing, either.  I'm sure that, in some
places, spending on the local and/or state scale is adequate, and we just
need to allocate the money more efficiently.  But in others, lack of money
in the system is very real.

I know this got away from the original subject -- sorry! :)  I think this
education stuff is pretty neat.

Kerry
"college has learned me alot"
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Date:         Sat, 23 Jan 1993 18:46:00 AST
From:         R_ALEMAN@UPR1.UPR.CLU.EDU
Subject:      Re: Nanny and Zoe
Comments: To: POLITICS@ucf1vm.cc.ucf.edu

        I'm not an expert in truly American politics, as I am just an
observer watching from afar whenever I got the time and the energy to try
to figure things down there. But from my humble point of view, this
silly business of trying to appoint only saints of unquestionable sexual,
strictly legal and untainted moral character to high government positions
is going too far. Only incidents of recent occurrence, directly connected
with the responsibilities of the job, or patterns of wrongdoing over extended
periods of time should qualify to invalidate a candidate for a cabinet
position.
        This zeal for perfection is infecting legislators here in Puerto
Rico, and stupid microscopic scrutiny for any tiny blemish in a person's
life history is being blown to huge proportions, (the media loves this
kind of things), but our different cultural tradition often just yawns
at this type of spotlight-grabbing by poor politicians, and nothing
much happens.

 - Ramon
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Newsgroups: bit.listserv.politics
Date:         Tue, 26 Jan 1993 18:37:00 EDT
From:         CLARK@EVMSVMS.BITNET
Subject:      Re: Reagan's legacy and the politics of the SC

>        The prez has the edge.  The court can't introduce bills in congress.
>
>Brett'


I know...they must be magicians or something...for the last decade they've
shown a remarkable ability to legislate their morality for the rest
of us. :)


BTW - The SC still has the edge...the US/UN SecCouncil Edge, if you will...


-T.
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Date:         Thu, 21 Jan 1993 08:44:34 -0600
From:         "VALENTINE M. SMITH" <CDELL@VAX1.UMKC.EDU>
Subject:      Re: Clinton and JFK
Comments: To: POLITICS%OHSTVMA.bitnet@MIZZOU1.missouri.edu

Clinton met JFK in 1961 or 1962, and JFK encouraged the young men he met that
day to take up service, government or otherwise. Clinton has said this
encounter inspired him to go into politics. VMS
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Date:         Tue, 26 Jan 1993 22:49:53 -0500
From:         JCOCURUL@DREW.BITNET
Subject:      Re: 7-11 guide fails again
Comments: To: politics@ohstvma.bitnet

In article <tfilt460795@drew.edu>, TI0PSR1@NIU.BITNET writes:
> For those who do not consult the 7-11 guide to the Supreme Court :
>     The prongs of the Lemon Test concern :
>           - a strictly secular purpose
>           - whether an act or a law advance or inhibit religion
>           - whether there is an excessive government entanglement
>     In Stone v. Graham (a major case on the topice if there ever was
>     one!) the Court did rule against the hanging of the 10 Command-
>     ments in public schools, despite the fact that they were purchase
>     d through private money and no attention was directed to them via
>     school officials
>
>
>     P.S.Ruckman, Jr.
>        :)

if Catholic biblical texts were purchased through private money in
some conservative or generally religious area in which the school
officials didn't care, would it be ok? Where public school officials
(part of the state) gets religious materials really doesn't matter,
it's their use in the classroom.  The fact that school officials paid
no heed is not surprising.  Prayer in schools wasn't either.

        -Joe
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Date:         Thu, 21 Jan 1993 08:49:22 CST
From:         "rufus t. firefly" <U9AA@SDSUMUS.SDSTATE.EDU>
Subject:      Clinton and JFK
Comments: To: POLITICS@ucf1vm.cc.ucf.edu

> I read that JFK is Clinton's idol.
>
> Does that means that Clinton is waiting to be killed? Or does it mean somethin
> different? Could anyone explain me, please?
>
> >An ignorant European.

  what it means is that clinton looks up to kennedy, and sees kennedy
as the greatest president of this century, if not in history. why, i
don't know. i would guess that many people clinton's age see kennedy
as a martyr of some kind. the image of kennedy is better than the
reality of kennedy.

  it does not mean that kennedy is waiting to be killed. he has some
insurance to protect him against that, much as bush had quayle.

rtf
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Date:         Thu, 28 Jan 1993 08:25:29 -0400
From:         Rick George <RIGEORGE@VASSAR.BITNET>
Subject:      D'Amato comes out

Think what you will about Al D'Amato, but I give him high marks for
taking such a strong and visible position on the lifting of the ban
on homosexuals in the military.  I heard him on the radio this morning
expanding on his remarks of the other day and I think that he's right
on with this issue and that he'll take a lot of criticism from the
far right of the G.O.P. for this one, and I admire him, whatever his
motivations, for sticking to his position.

...Rick
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Date:         Wed, 27 Jan 1993 15:27:27 PST
From:         Jonathan Fisher <jfisher@NETXWEST.COM>
Subject:      Re: Health Care Reform
Comments: To: POLITICS@ucf1vm.cc.ucf.edu

> I had heard somewhere, perhaps incorrectly, that Hillary was listed
> in the top 20 attorneys in the nation years ago.  (Perhaps higher,
> perhaps longer ago, who knows?)  Unless I'm mistaken, she really
> was/is qualified to be the Attorney General.  Does someone have some
> additional information that might shed some more light on Hillary's
> qualifications?
My recollection is that Mrs. Clinton was ranked in the top 100 lawyers in
the country for the last two years running.
>
>
> > I'd like to comment about the Clinton administration's claims about having
> > the "most diverse cabinet in history".  Of the 18 cabinet appointments made
> > by Clinton, 14 are lawyers.  God only knows how many of them are in
>  sub-cabinet
>
> As far as I know, the only Administration with more attorneys was the
> Nixon administration.  Unfortunately, "those that know the law are
> above it" (JSJ, 1989) is something which all attorneys inherently try
> to prove when they are in a position to be able to almost get away
> with it (i.e. A place called Hope... The White House).
Why people (usually conservative) tend to overlook the cultural diversity
of the cabinet in favor of a universally disliked profession which
predominates the cabinet is beyond me.  Anyone who examined the President's
statements know that when he was talking about diverse, he was not talking
about professions.  Since both he and his wife are lawyers and associate
with lawyers, it is not unrealistic to imagine that the people who they
come in contact with and like are more than likely going to lawyers.
> > --JD
>
> --Stan
>     "The world has 5 years of freedom left.  Then, I'm an attorney."
>
Jonathan
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Date:         Thu, 28 Jan 1993 15:55:51 CST
From:         fred <CCHILDER@UNMCVM.BITNET>
Subject:      Andy, you're not getting your monies worth

Andy says that we can't compare the US having a rank of #12 to the US
having a rank of #5. The number of nations hasn't changed. Our position
relative to other countries has changed. If we used to be #5 and we are
now #12, our ranking has slipped. This doesn't seem like a difficult
concept to grasp. Are you saying that we are as well off or better off
with a current ranking of #12 than we were when we ranked #5? We could
use that logic to give the election to george since there is no
difference between coming in #2 or #1. :)

fred
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.politics
From: jhalat@csfb1.fir.fbc.com (James Halat)
Subject: Re:      Re: Uncl: ActUp/RI joins Colorado Boycott
Reply-To: uunet!csfb1!jhalat
Organization: First Boston Corporation
Date: Thu, 28 Jan 1993 18:52:14 GMT

In article <POLITICS%93012616365369@OHSTVMA.ACS.OHIO-STATE.EDU>,         Travis Kidd <TKIDD@CLEMSON.BITNET> writes:

|> > >Actually, I believe the state has a compelling interest in stopping
|> > >the breakdown of the family, and with this sexual promiscuity and
|> > >deviance.  The state, therefore, IMO, can outlaw homosexual acts.
|> >
|>  -Travis

Could you please spell out exactly how homosexual acts are furthering
the breakdown of the family.  And don't say something so idiotic as all 
homosexuals are promiscuous.
	
And could you further explain why the family, which has many of its own
negative attributes (wife beating, child molesting, adultery, incest, etc.),
should be protected at the expense of another group???

-jim

-- 
James Halat                    e-mail:  uunet!csfb1!jhalat          
The First Boston Corporation   -- I speak only for myself --
New York City                     

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Date:         Fri, 22 Jan 1993 16:56:00 EST
From:         linda <SABOE@VUVAXCOM.BITNET>
Subject:      drink up

well, my plans to leave 30 minutes early failed.

drink up guys, the beer is flowing.

hope you all have a great wkend.
i'm off to acme and then the local pub to buy my sixpack.

later,
-linda
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Date:         Mon, 25 Jan 1993 13:17:56 CDT
From:         Robert Moss <SPRG0002@TULSAJC.BITNET>
Subject:      Uncl: Business Optimism
Comments: To: politics@ohstvma.bitnet

Sears has become the first major employer to openly display its
optimistic view of what the future holds for business, during the
Cliha haa haa in ha haton administration.  Announced today, the end
of the Sears catalog, the closing of approximately 113 stores and
the unemployment of 50,000 workers.  The lucky ones, still employed,
will be facing drastic pay cuts.

I feel all better about Billy now :/

---Robert
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Date:         Tue, 26 Jan 1993 13:03:53 CST
From:         fred <CCHILDER@UNMCVM.BITNET>
Subject:      The supremes sing the blues

Well, now that the military brass has made their stand on allowing
non-heterosexuals to serve in the miltary very clear, does anyone think
they will attempt a legal challenge to Clinton's executive order? What
grounds/precident will they base their case upon?

Robert, I don't read your book but isn't gambling generally considered
a sin? :)

fred

If Nancy Reagan could be the drug csar following the dictates of her
astrologer, what is wrong with Hillary leading the health care plan?
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Date:         Wed, 27 Jan 1993 13:23:38 -0400
From:         The Integral Differential <DEMON@DESIRE.WRIGHT.EDU>
Subject:      Re: Reagan's legacy and the politics of the SC
Comments: To: POLITICS@OHSTVMA.ACS.OHIO-STATE.EDU

>You don't think people will bring suits to challenge the new administrations
>legislation once it gets enacted? Yeah, right.
>
>-Dan

        No, just pointing out that the edge lies in being able to introduce
legislation at will, while the SC has to wait for it to be challanged.

Brett'
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Date:         Tue, 26 Jan 1993 12:20:54 -0800
From:         Andy Freeman <andy@SAIL.STANFORD.EDU>
Organization: Computer Science Department,  Stanford University.
Subject:      Re: smoke smoke smoke that cigarette

>>>The article said that the Environmental Protection Agency estimates
>>>that second hand smoke kills about 3,000 non-smokers annually.
>>
>>So?  (Suppose that 90% choose to live with a smoker.  Does that
>>matter?)
>>
>>-andy notes that 3,000 is still at least an order of magnitude
>>      less than MD's kill through "misadventure"
>>
>I think the IMPORTANT point here is that second and smoking
>kills.

Really?  It doesn't matter who it kills?  It doesn't matter if it only
kills people who get some benefit from said second-hand smoke?  It
doesn't matter that second hand smoke kills people who CHOOSE it?

>And, for example, when in a public library, government
>offices, and other indoor public places, I should have the right
>not to be exposed to second hand smoking.

Based on what?  What is it that justifies jailing people?  Is KAT
willing to swing the club himself?

-andy
--
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