HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: bowyer@venus.iucf.indiana.edu (THEODORE W. BOWYER)
Subject: QUestion
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.3-4   
Reply-To: bowyer@venus.iucf.indiana.edu
Organization: IUCF
Date: Mon, 14 Dec 1992 03:18:45 GMT


Uh...I know you guys probably hate asking all the questions that get asked...
but I've read the FAQ and downloaded the help files from that ftp site, but 
I STILL can't figure something out...

How does one capture a planet??

Ok...I've got...let's say 2.03 kills...and i beam up say 3 armies....

every time I go to the enemies planet...and hit "b" for bomb...i get this
screwy message that says "Weapons officer informs you that planetary
bombing is ineffective, only X armies defending."
Why? 

And how do I bomb the planet?

Also, how does the war decl. screen tie in...(the enemy planet was HOSTILE).


Thanks,

	SammyD 
Newsgroups: rec.games.netrek
From: ssquier@silver.ucs.indiana.edu (Sean Alan Squier)
Subject: Extreme upgrade ideas...
Organization: Indiana University
Date: Fri, 18 Dec 1992 12:54:54 GMT

Howdy.  Forgive me if these are common topics, but there was no way I
was gonna read 656 posts to check.  I was recently directed to this
group to present some ideas for future netrek versions.  If these have
all been discussed then ... oops... hit 'n'.

Recently, after reading rec.arts.sf.starwars, I thought some Star Wars
features would be pretty cool in netrek.  These may all be impossible,
but the powers-that-be may find them interesting, so here they are.
Please direct all flames to my address below, so I can delete them
personally. =-)=-)

=-= IDEAS =-=

1.  It would be cool if we could all pilot famous space ships, from
our favorite shows.  Like there could be one Millenium Falcon per
game..first come first served.  Maybe a hall of fame site, where all
the ships are sci-fi favorites.  i.e.  The Enterprise vs. the
Nostromo! =-)

2.  Teams built after the rebel alliance and the empire with ships to
match.  It seems these changes would be merely cosmetic almost, with a
few statistic changes for each ship type.  (Instead of bombimg planets,
it could read," AT-AT's pummel Castor/Hoth to 3 armies ")

3.  Rankings would be different, from Ensign to Jedi.

4.  Star Bases could become Death Stars, with the ability to
destroy planets, with a possible limitation, like a certain number
kills required or a specific rank.

5.  Hyperdrives on ships that would propel them across the galaxy, for
a price, i.e. using all energy and paralyzing the ship for a few
seconds.  

6.  This isn't Star Wars related, but how about Black Holes?  Maybe
they could appear in third space as a team is counting down to
genocide.  Suck up everything except planets of course.  


I know there are lots of sites with special rules (planets w/gravity,
wrap-around walls, etc...) and I have not played them all, so please
excuse me if these ideas are already in use.  


Sean Squier
(Future CEO - The Walt Disney Company)
ssquier@silver.ucs.indiana.edu

a.k.a.  Goofy  OR
	Aladdin

(depending on the server)
Newsgroups: rec.games.netrek
From: peterm@cory.Berkeley.EDU (Peter Mardahl)
Subject: Re: Dogfight Size wars
Summary: I agree with this guy
Organization: University of California, at Berkeley
Date: Fri, 18 Dec 1992 03:02:26 GMT


>lyodav@iastate.edu (Sun God) writes:
>   I'm a career DD player, and I played in the dogfighting tourney as a DD.
>(once as an AS on accident, and I actually mutualed with a CA ;-) )
>What happened was interesting. I had a poor record against CAs, maybe 1 win,
>5 losses, and 5 ties. But against BBs, I had a great record, probably 6 wins,
>3 ties, and 2 losses. I know these are small samples, but 2 of the the 6 
>possible ship vs different ship matchups have these outcomes in general:
>CA vs DD:   CA wins
>BB vs DD:   DD wins
>
>BB vs CA:   BB wins
>
>   This last one comes simply from watching the others fight. 
>   I had trouble with CAs because I couldn't get my torps to connect very 
>often, but I could pretty much *plink* the BBs to death.


  Oddly enough, I agree with this Sun God wholeheartedly.  Though I can
usually trash a CA who is over-confident, I fear CA's the most
when I'm in a DD.  BB's I can either destroy or go around.  But the
DD just doesn't have enough of a maneuverability advantage over the
CA to do well against the CA's superior firepower.

  SC's are too hard to chase down in a DD ordinarily, but when they
do dare to close with me in a DD, they bite the dust.

  I like to use DD's sometimes for deep bombing.  You can often
get an enraged CA or BB to come after you, TOO FAST.  They can't
dodge your torp stream because they're at maxwarp.  Then I have
a kill, I've done some bombing, I've given my team a view of enemy
space, and I'm ready to move armies.

  The DD is also agile enough to make a cool planet-taker, in my opinion.
I like to look for openings, rather than try and sneak in under cloak.
This often doesn't take that long, and you can try and control space a
bit while you're doing this, so it's not such a criminal time waste (IMHO.)
I've taken planets many times in a DD without having to bother cloaking
at all, and then gotten another kill from an over-confident, enraged
defender seeking vengeance.

  It's also kinda fun to use the DD's excellent cloaking capability
for starbase-baiting.  You just hover around near the base, and
make him VERY nervous.  Then, when a wave of your own oggers comes
for the base, you uncloak, dump torps on him and then die on him,
while he's distracted.  Works beautifully:  I've hurt bases very
badly in a DD this way.  

  Well, okay, maybe they were bad bases.  ;-)

  Keep the flames friendly, please......


Peter Mardahl

aka Terminus
From: yap@iowegia.uucp (Yap Yap Yap)
Newsgroups: rec.games.netrek
Subject: BB Buddies rampage Discovery
Date: Sat, 12 Dec 92 05:47:29 CST
Distribution: world
Organization: Iowegia Public Access Usenet/UUCP, Clive IA USA.

     It's amazing how many people you can get mad at you -- even 
when you're following the rules.  Take tonight's discovery matchup 
for example.  A few measly Orion BB's and the feds start frothing 
at the mouth.  What great action though, it was pretty tough for 
those feds to get through a wall of BB's.  Hell, even MUCUS tried 
out being a BB Buddy for a few minutes.  He didn't last long as a 
BB but he ogged good and popped the "world's only 1,000 ratio" 
starbase, but he was too weenie to fight with it.  He just showed 
it off then refitted into a cruiser.  
 
     Anyways, I would like to know what's going through your minds 
when you're coming twoards the enemy expecting to scum a few 
kills, when you are met with a few BB's.  Well I know the first 
thing that runs through your mind has GOT to be turn away and run 
(this was obvious from all the runners, but that's to be expected)
but the few of you that did decide to try and take on 3 BB's were 
sorely dissapointed..  I'll bet Psycho's still mad over that 
battle. 
 
     It was a good game, thanks to all that were there BB Buddies 
(MUCUS included) were triumphant (of course) and we left with 
dignity -- all at once.


Yap Yap Yap!
Newsgroups: rec.games.netrek
From: bdhall@lucky.ecn.purdue.edu (Brian D Hall)
Subject: Re: Dogfight Size wars
Organization: Purdue University Engineering Computer Network
Date: Fri, 18 Dec 1992 22:18:22 GMT

In article <1gs94sINNonj@aludra.usc.edu> jimmyhua@aludra.usc.edu (Jimmy Huang) writes:
>Well, actually, i also notice that there are differences in different
>servers. 
>
>Maybe I'm imagining things, but I always get the impression that
>SC torps do more damage in fife, and sturgeon.  I mean, in CA or
>BB (if the SC was naive), i could tractor them in, dett ALL their
>torps and phasor to SC to death and live. 
>
>I could NEVER pull this off in either sturgeon or fife, unless the bozo
>missed a GOOD portion of his shots.  But, anywhere else it seems
>do-able. 
>
>
>Jimmy
>
>



	SC torps do NOT do more damage on fife.
	THE ONLY difference between fife and vanilla bronco is the DDs, which
have 8000 fuel instead of 7000.


   Brian
From: von@cory.Berkeley.EDU (Steve Von Worley)
Newsgroups: rec.games.netrek
Subject: Re: No 8x rule?
Keywords: Rankscum!
Date: 17 Dec 92 09:53:44 GMT
Organization: University of California, at Berkeley

In article <1992Dec17.050909.6519@infodev.cam.ac.uk> js138@cus.cam.ac.uk (John Sloan) writes:
>
>Probably a FOCS, but you could implement the idea of people going down in rank
>well as up.  One suggestion, which probably wouldn't make a great deal of
>difference, would be to require you to have ratings of 5+ (and 4x DI) to retain
>the rank of Admiral (4+ for Read Admiral, 3+ for Commodore, you get the idea). 
>If you wanted to be really mean, you would require 4x DI and 6+ ratings to reta
>the rank.
>
>Now to retain the rank of Admiral you have to be a) good, or b) permenantly
>scumming.  I doubt many people would opt for b, so you could argue that Rank
>would more accurately reflect peoples ability.

Unfortunately, the rank is based on stats, and stats are based on a limited
range of activities (bombing, kill frequency, and taking planets).  Perhaps
the most important person on a team is the one who scares away [or kills] 
enemy takers, escorts his team, breaks up waves of enemy escorts, cleans up
potential carriers, and generally places himself in the right place at the 
right time.  I for one feel most useful when I do the latter activities
well.  Yet, the current set of stats penalizes players for involving 
themselves in these important activities.

Until the stats are fixed, we might as well leave them alone.

Sandia
-- 
Steve Von Worley
von@cory.berkeley.edu
Computer Science Gradual Student
University of California at Berzerkly
From: von@cory.Berkeley.EDU (Steve Von Worley)
Newsgroups: rec.games.netrek
Subject: Re: This has gone too far.....
Date: 15 Dec 92 05:00:18 GMT
Organization: University of California, at Berkeley

In article <Mf=AyPi00YUoEJrYx7@andrew.cmu.edu> "Joseph E. Beck" <jb8n+@andrew.cmu.edu> writes:
>
>echeverr@scf.usc.edu (5150) writes:
>> In article <4f=0CvW00VB6M4h15O@andrew.cmu.edu> "Timothy C. Worsley" <tw1r+@and\
>> rew.cmu.edu> writes:
>> >> DD -         good for quick takes in games with rabid oggers.  good for
>> >>      dogfighting.
>> >Good for Dogfighting?  GOOD FOR DOGFIGHTING?!?!?  A SC is better for
>> >dogfighting than a DD.
>> 
>> Er, no.  It's not.
>Um...yes it is.
>
>Ok, let's compare how the torp warp goes.  The SC has a *much* longer
>effective torp range than the DD.  Why?  SC torps go faster, and the
>SC dodges better.  So the SC can get into torp range and DD can only
>phaser.  Now, DD phasers don't bring fear into the heart of SC pilots,
>and the DD tractors aren't too fearsome either.  So the SC closes to
>effective torp range (the DD still can't hit it with torps) and wins.
>Any questions?

Your post is misleading.  Here are some more accurate statements:

SC torps go slightly faster than DD torps.
DD torps do more damage than SC torps.
The torp range of the DD is signficantly longer than a SC.
The SC turns about 1.8 times faster than the DD, which turns 1.8
	times faster than a CA.
A DD has more powerful phasers effective over a longer range.
The DD has more powerful tractors and higher mass.
The DD has a higher fuel regeneration and repair ratio.

So the question is: does the extra turning speed of an SC afford any 
meaningful advantage over a DD, or is the DD turning rate adequate to
dodge torps.

I believe the the extra SC turning rate does not offset the disadvantage
presented by most of the other factors.

Thus, I think DD will win non-runnerscum DD-SC dogfights.

Sandia
-- 
Steve Von Worley
von@cory.berkeley.edu
Computer Science Gradual Student
University of California at Berzerkly 
Newsgroups: rec.games.netrek
From: jwh@cs.bham.ac.uk (James Hawtin)
Newsgroups: rec.games.netrek
Subject: Psychotron
Date: 14 Dec 92 12:53:33 GMT
Reply-To: jwh@cs.bham.ac.uk
Organization: School of Computer Science, The University of Birmingham, UK

Have you heard Psychotron by Megadeth its perfect for netrek!

Assassin in stealth
Assailant from Hell
Impervious to damage
Computer on-board
Engaged in a war
Non-stop combatant
Maybe not a mutant, maybe a man

chorus:

Part bionic
And organic
Not a cyborg
Call him Psychotron

Burning inside
Godspeed in glide
Battle plan running
A killing machine
Just downright mean
And forever gunning
Maybe not a mutant maybe a man

chorus

Target to destroy
Arms in employ
Full assault fire threat
Sensors indicate
You will terminate
Life systems disconnect

chorus


Perhaps there are other netrek songs :-)


			James

Commodor wibble
From: dtabb@ecst.csuchico.edu (Don Tabb)
Newsgroups: rec.games.netrek
Subject: Re: Doorstop running minimal clue server
Date: 17 Dec 92 00:14:07 GMT
Organization: California State University, Chico
NNTP-Posting-Host: corpse.ecst.csuchico.edu

In article <palane.724544856@pv7b88.vincent.iastate.edu> palane@iastate.edu (Paul A. Lane) writes:
>Just a thought. Would it be possible to set up a beginner's or "no-clue"
>server? It might be fun for players who are just getting started and
>haven't got the hang of it. We can get Tal or Mucus Pig to log on
>occasionally and shout obscenities. ;-)
>
>The main reason this might not be a bad idea (somewhere in netland)
>is to encourage new players to start (and ruin their lives too).
>
>Suicide Soln.

ok.  You use the code from Nick Trown that askes if you are clue.
if you reply, you're kicked out.

You could also check for distresses and all messages.  More then 
3-4 in a hour and you are kicked out. And ANY ratings over 1.5...
Kicked out.   too much clue.

don
Scorn!
From: genie@netcom.com (gene choi)
Newsgroups: rec.games.netrek
Subject: Bored of clueless games?  Then read this...
Keywords: clue game cluelessness twink fun ogg scum escort
Date: 15 Dec 92 03:11:29 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: Netcom


Do you have clue?  Bored of normal clueless games on all the
servers?  Then listen up.

/*----------------------------------------------------------*/
Last weekend's game was pretty good.  I'm organizing a clue game
for this Wednesday (WEDNESDAY) the the 19th.  It will be
at 5PM PST = 8PM EST (a previous post had an error in the 
EST time, sorry for the confusion. I cancelled the other
article, so hopefully, you wouldn't have seen it.).  The server
will be in Berkeley. (with a decent net connection).
/*-----------------------------------------------------------*/

If you're interested in playing, hit "r" NOW.  Please include
your alias and your rank in some reputable server.  (Yeah
ranks mean nothing but it gives me some idea of your xp).
I'll send you all the details of the server and who will be
playing for which team, etc.

If there are enough people interested, I could set up 2 games
at once.

Since it's close to Christmas, this could potentially be the last
chance for a decent game before vacation (yeah some of you are
already on break...  too bad.).  

Oh yeah.  Study hard boys and girls.  Finals yuk.

Gene
aka Ginger
From: leonard@mimsy.umd.edu (Leonard Dickens)
Newsgroups: rec.games.netrek
Subject: Re: NBR proposal:  message hook
Date: 12 Dec 92 12:13:51 GMT
Organization: Deep Thirteen, Gizmonics Institute

(Joseph E. Beck writes:
>The message hook allows you to specify a file that will take all
>messages (except kill messages) into stdin.  Now, it seems possible to
>search through incoming strings for things like planet names.  Now if,
>say TAU is in an incoming message, this specified program could create
>a small object that flashes near the location of TAU (since the
>absolute screen coordinates of TAU are known when you write the
>program, if you map you netrek window to the same place).  You could
>also cause your screen to flash if you receive an "important" message,
>and you could have easily modifiable methods to determine what is
>"important".  This seems like a large advantage, and looks 'somewhat'
>borgish.  Am I missing something, or does this give a *huge* advantage
>to people to carefully craft their message hook program?

First off, I don't think the advantage is so huge... I mean this is
the kind of thing that top clue does without any help.  Helping the
twinks read and understand messages is, IMAO, a Good Thing (tm).

Second, most of the potential "abuses" you mention are already
Official NBR Changes... to wit:

|Message beep: optionally beep whenever a message comes, possibly dependent on
|which message window it is going to end up on.

|Message referent highlighting: show players or planets mentioned in messages
|to specific message windows by graphically highlighting them on screen.

Now, your idea for flashing when there is a new message might be a
slight advantage, but I think that really should be a NBR change
eventually since it is a good idea.  (Might be kinda annoying
actually.)

In summary: I don't think that the advantange to be gained by clever
message hooks is very large.  Remember that if someone does figure out
how to abuse the feature, we can always vote it back out of NBR and
then get all the server gods to disable clients known to have message
hooks... thus the RSA scheme shows its value.

-Leonard
From: fadden@uts.amdahl.com (Andy McFadden)
Newsgroups: rec.games.netrek
Subject: Re: Port -1 and MetaServerII
Keywords: netrek.cs.bham.ac.uk 2590-2592  <- try it!
Date: 11 Dec 92 22:01:03 GMT
Organization: Amdahl Corporation, Sunnyvale CA

In article <1992Dec11.112349@cs.bham.ac.uk> aqw@cs.bham.ac.uk (Andy Williams) writes:
>netrek.cs.bham.ac.uk is one of them. It uses the doorstop format which
>I presumed was the preferred format. 

Well, it was the only one that worked at all until a couple of days ago.

>How about this format:-
><>=======================================================================<>
>  Pl: Type Rank      Name            Login    Display                
><>=======================================================================<>
>  R0:  DD  Captain   alfven          chucks   pippin.ee.usu.edu           
>  K1:  CA  Rear Adm. Crowbar         thalerj  snapper.cps.msu.edu       
>  R2:  SB  Captain   midget          kwhite   beech.cis.ohio-state.edu   
>          |-9 chars-|---15 chars----|8 chars-|------------32 chars------------ 

I like it.  Forget the DI stuff - unless you expect people to be telnetting
directly to your port, they aren't going to see it on MS-II port 3522 anyway.

BTW, as I said in a previous post a couple minutes ago, I don't do the full
hostnames right now.

>Andy.                             

-- 
fadden@uts.amdahl.com (Andy McFadden)
[ Above opinions are mine, Amdahl has nothing to do with them, etc, etc. ]
From: paulsen@eniac.seas.upenn.edu (Brian Paulsen)
Newsgroups: rec.games.netrek
Subject: Re: Addiction
Date: 18 Dec 92 22:17:34 GMT
Organization: University of Pennsylvania

In article <1gthh8INN9e1@agate.berkeley.edu> mehlhaff@soda.berkeley.edu (ERic MeHlHaFf) writes:

>A long-standing adage here at Berkeley has been:

>GPA+ratio=constant

That's why I started ogging and scout bombing... I needed to get my grades
up!!! :)  In the end, though, I started learning how to really dogfight,
and my grades plummetted. :(

Brian
From: tom@soda.berkeley.edu (Tom Holub)
Newsgroups: rec.games.netrek
Subject: Re: Tom's* Scheduling Counter-Proposal
Date: 15 Dec 1992 04:18:23 GMT
Organization: U.C. Berkeley, CS Undergraduate Association
NNTP-Posting-Host: soda.berkeley.edu

In article <101940@netnews.upenn.edu> paulsen@eniac.seas.upenn.edu (Brian Paulsen) writes:
)In article <1ggo7iINNh1v@agate.berkeley.edu> tom@soda.berkeley.edu (Tom Holub) writes:
)>In article <wf9Jhja00VpNM3lkxR@andrew.cmu.edu> Kevin Michael Bernatz <kb32+@andrew.cmu.edu> writes:
)
)>)>   It's more work for the INL Council but it's
)>)> still all pre-season work.  Captains will still have their 
)>)> entire schedule laid out at the beginning of the season.
)>)
)>)This seems to be you're big gripe with other systems.. is that a correct
)>)assumption?  Is you're main goal to make it easier on the captains?
)>
)>It is a major goal, yes, and it is the main problem I have with 
)>the ladder and swiss systems.
)
)The swiss system may have difficulties with scheduling.  Any ladder-based
)system (like my point count) has NO such difficulties.  Games are scheduled
)based on the teams finding times that are convenient.  Even the system that
)you propose, Tom, has a greater scheduling problem than a ladder system.

This is not true.  The system I propose has a greater scheduling
start-up cost, but it has far fewer ongoing problems than a ladder
system; the workload is shifted from the INL Council (who have
volunteered to do the work) to the captains (who haven't, really) with
a ladder system; I see this as a bad thing.
 
)Also, please reflect on this season about whether or not the council can
)accurately rank every team.  Even you would not give LAR the credit they
)deserved until late in the season.  Also, it took about half the season
)for TAA to be properly ranked.  While it sounds nice to say that only a
)few teams will be improperly ranked, I know that I'd be pissed if my team
)was ranked wrong, and I know you'd be pissed if yours was, too.

I had LAR ranked #2 in the West from the start of the season.  We will
allow petitions from teams who feel they are improperly ranked to
reconsider the ranking.  Plus, the main point is that being in the
wrong bracket is a *very small* difference, unless a top-level team
is put in the bottom-level bracket.
 -Tom
Newsgroups: rec.games.netrek
From: qarl@wuecl.wustl.edu (Karl Stiefvater)
Subject: Re: NBR proposal:  message hook
Organization: Washington University, St. Louis MO
Date: Sat, 12 Dec 1992 18:02:54 GMT

>I would expect that anybody with sufficient talent to go to all the
>trouble of writing a program that drew little indicators on top of
>planets that were referenced in messages would already know where
>everything is without a second thought.  Of course, such a program could
>be shared, but it isn't likely to be that portable.  In addition, if you
>make these flags large enough to be easily noticed, you create a strong 
>risk of having them interfere with the action going on underneath in the
>real window.  I'd guess that most experienced players would find your
>proposed cheats more a nuisance than a help.

It would easily be portable, and could be made so that it minimally 
interfered with the game.

Would the following NBR proposal pass: "Optionally make planets flash when
being attacked."?   I think not.


- Karl
Organization: Carnegie Mellon, Pittsburgh, PA
Newsgroups: rec.games.netrek
Date: Sun, 20 Dec 1992 06:57:52 -0500 
From: "Timothy C. Worsley" <tw1r+@andrew.cmu.edu>
Subject: Re: This has gone too far.....
	<1992Dec19.232458@IASTATE.EDU>

Excerpts from netnews.rec.games.netrek: 20-Dec-92 Re: This has gone too
far..... exodus@IASTATE.EDU (360)

>  Just out of curiousity, why is this topic being argued? Seems
> about as silly as arguing which side has the best looking
> bitmaps....


	That arguement has not been finished yet.
Best:
SB -- Rom
AS -- Rom
BB -- Ori
CA -- Fed/Ori
DD -- Kli
SC -- Sperm

Worst:
SB -- Kli
AS -- ZZiggy
BB -- ZZiggy
CA -- ZZiggy
DD -- ZZiggy
SC -- ZZiggy


ZZnew guy
Organization: Freshman, MCS general, Carnegie Mellon, Pittsburgh, PA
Newsgroups: rec.games.netrek
Date: Tue, 15 Dec 1992 02:17:05 -0500 
From: Edward Fred Chen <ec2s+@andrew.cmu.edu>
Subject: Re: Name Scumming
	<1992Dec14.162001.15959@ncsu.edu>

Excerpts from netnews.rec.games.netrek: 14-Dec-92 Re: Name Scumming have
clue@eos.ncsu.edu (1270)

> 3) Take out end spaces, and Greg Chung (Stiletto/Stiletto /Stiletto  /etc.) 
>      would be heartbroken.

And what about Team BOBO. There's BOBO, BOBO ,BOBO  ,and BOBO   .

> By their deeds, ye shall know them.  It's not really worth worrying about.
> 			
>                         --Commodore Video Sex Pope, NCSU
> 			--"of course, I've already snagged 'Video Sex Pope_'."
> --
>           jecoleb@eos.ncsu.edu : have clue, will travel.
>        ---------------------------------------------------
>      It's time to see the world / It's time to kiss the girl
>               It's time to cross the wild meridian
>   Grab your bag and take a chance / Time to learn a Cajun dance
>              Kid, you're gonna see the morning sun... 


BOBO   
(Three spaces for those who can't tell they are there)  :)