From: mcgrath@cs.uiuc.edu (Robert McGrath)
Subject: Re: OBE (number test)
Reply-To: mcgrath@cs.uiuc.edu
Organization: University of Illinois, Dept of Computer Science
Date: Tue, 21 Jul 1992 21:54:13 GMT

In article <1992Jul21.163934.1@husky1.stmarys.ca>, gen5006@husky1.stmarys.ca writes:
|> 
|> Taken from "Mind Beyond the Body" (c) 1978:
|> 
|> "... Tart (1968) conducted a series of experiments with a 'Miss Z' who
|> claimed to have the ability to induce OBEs in herself during sleep.  One
|> night, while her brain and other physiological measures were being
|> recorded by polygraph, she was able during an OBE to correctly identify
|> a five-digit number placed on a shelf above her bed.  The possibility of
|> such a correct identification occuring by chance is one in 100,000, and the
|> polygraph would have revealed it had she gotten up during the night to 
|> take a peek."
|> 
|> 	Now whether this proves if something leaves the body, or not, is
|> questionable.  However, it does show that OBEs should not be lightly 
|> dismissed.
|> 
|> Bill.
One should take this story with a grain of salt.  Omitted from
this account are the following facts:

--Miss Z came to the lab deliberately to demonstrate this feat.  She
failed in the first few (nine?) tries, "succeeded" once (described
above) and then left and never came back.

--For the successful trial the number was in the same room with her,
definitely possible to read if she stood up in bed.

--The polygraph showed unusual activity which some believe was the
physiological effects of the OBE, but others think is typical of
what you'd see if she stood up while attached.

(Note also that, if you count the failures, the chances of one guess
out of several tries is more like 1 in 10000.  This is not high, but 
it points out the problem with this kind of statistical argument--
you have to be careful about what your model of "chance" is.  Lots
of things are relevant to this question, including how the number
was chosen, and how many guesses she got, and so on.)

One should also note that, even if we ignore the problems noted
above, this is pretty much the ONLY report of remote viewing during
an OBE that one can even begin to take seriously.  There are hundreds
of cases of "no result" and hundreds of cases where people were sure
that they had actually visited some real place, but the report turned 
out to be inaccurate in many details, indicating that, though it felt
real, they were mistaken that it was real.  (Also note that, if you 
count one hit and _divide by all the failures_, the odds of one hit by 
chance become pretty good!)

Also, see my recent comments about the THEORETICAL problems posed
by the astral travel theory of OBEs.  Just how exactly is her
astral body supposed to have "seen" the numbers?  Could it 
interact with photons reflecting off the card?  If so, how
could it do this without being visible (due to interaction with
the photons)?  If not then how could the pattern on the card be
transmitted to the astral body?  And if you want a harder problem,
how did the experience get transferred into the ordinary memory
system (which is inside the body)?  Does the astral body have
an "astral retina" with an "astral nervous system" that processes
light and remembers the experience in the "astral brain", the
memory of which is somehow then stored on the ordinary brain?  Just
exactly how could all this work?

Note also, that you could always say she read the correct number
by telepathy from the experimenter's mind!  

Assignment to be turned in by Friday:  Design an experiment
to distinguish between the telepathy hypothesis and the astral
travel hypothesis!  Be specific.

E-Mail your essays to: mcgrath@cs.uiuc.edu

:-)

---
  Robert E. McGrath
  Urbana Illinois
  mcgrath@cs.uiuc.edu