From: statz@uumeme.chi.il.us (Louis B. Del Boccio)
Subject: Casion--Vote
Organization: UUMEME Public Access Xenix
Distribution: chi
Date: Fri, 08 Jan 93 08:30:09 GMT

In aticle <1993Jan6.223425.4978\@eecs.nwu.edu>
phil\@eecs.nwu.edu ( William Lefebvre ) writes: >...

Well.......you asked.

It would appear that Casinos area must for Chicagoland .

>> Perhaps that's how it appears to you,

   William  I am glad you could read that is what I said.. 
   

>> but that's not how it appears to others, and your posting did 
   little to convince the reader that your premise was correct.
   
   William I did not post the article to convince anyone. Again you
   miss the point.


If the Casino  Bill is not passed Chicago may very well go the way
of Detroit and other large cities which have gone steadily down hill
in recent years. 

>> Chicago has a significantly more diverse commercial base to draw
>> on than does Detroit, Houston, or other declining major cities. 
>> Sure its large manufacturing/travel/industrial base is declining,
>> but it also has a significant presence in high technology fields
>> as well as retail companies.

William again you miss the target. Your statement proves you
definitely don't know whats going on in Chicago. Just read the
papers watch the news that retail/manufacturing/travel and industrial
are leaving Illinois..

>>And it is STILL a major player in the air transportation market.

  William again If you haven't noticed the airlines are laying off
  thousand of people.  "come on"

There are many good reasons to have casino-style gambling in this
City. Here are but a few...

>>And there are many bad reasons.

1. Chicago needs the jobs to grow.

>> Would casinos really create the jobs that Chicago needs?

   William -- William  yes - yes   Chicago needs jobs understand !

>> The vast majority of the jobs would be dead-end minimum-wage jobs.
   They would have a positive effect in the short term, but what
   about long term ? 

   William  Whats the matter with you ? Do you have a better plan
   to get people working . Don't be so high and mighty . You do
   what you have to do to pay the BILLS to get food on the table for
   your kids and try to put them through school.  Do you have a 
   better plan to get Chicago and it's suburbs working again ?
   I don't think so... 

2. Chicago sorely needs a larger taxbase to support its self, without
   further burdening the already strained property owners with yet
   another tax increase. 

>> An increased tax base is needed along with better management of
>> the money that's already there, and more intelligent and focused
>> application of that money.

   William ..........I don't think anyone believes the statement
   you just said. I can tell you don't pay any taxes.


3. Gambling is already legal in Chicago, and throughout Illinois and
   Wisconsin. In fact there are already functioning casinos as close
   as Milwaukee, not to mention the plethora of river boat-style
   gambling establishments as nearby as Joliet Il (about 25 miles
   west of the city) 
>> So?
    
   William  what do you mean SO ?  I mentioned the above statement
   to show that gambling in a part of Illinois and should be a
   part of Chicago.
4. VFW, Moose and other fraternal organizations, as well as the
   Roman Catholic Church, all hold regular 'Bingo' and 'Las Vegas
   Night' affairs. 

>> And has been legal for decades.  Again: so?
   
   William  again what do you mean SO ?  If it's alright for
   these groups to make money on gambling SO should Chicago.

5. Horse racing flourishes, even off-track betting is allowed.

>> So?  Land-based casino gambling is an entirely different type of
>> gambling than any of the ones you have already mentioned.
  
   William wake up I am getting tired spoon feeding this info
   gambling is gambling theres no difference...


>> And again, horse racing has been legal in this state for quite
>> some time. Has it had any substantially positive effect on the
>> local economy? 
   
   William  SO  thats nice but what about Chicago ?

>> Can you cite studies that indicate this before you use it to
   justify leaglizing casinos? 

   William  Yes !


6. The state lottery continues to lure people with promises of big
   money, despite the fact that state lotteries are among the highest
   risks than any casino game played in America.

>> I fail to see how this can be used to justify casino gambling. 
>> And ask the people who counsel lottery addicts just how
>> beneficial and wonderful the lottery has been. I have heard the
>> lottery referred to as a "tax on stupidity."  Is this something
>> we really want to increase and propogate?

   William what we really want is jobs. you understand.

On the issue on crime.. Many are worried that casinos would bring
crime to our city.  Well.anyone can see that crime is on the
increase and our neighborhoods are in worse shape now than in any
recent memory and things are not getting much better.

Could a casino really make things worse?

>> Yes,it could.There are still parts of downtown that are reasonably
>> safe. What assurances do we have that it WON'T get any worse? Just
>> because crime is bad now doesn't mean that casino gambling will
>> make it any better.

  William can you cite any studies that gambling will worsen the
  situation with the crime issue ? No I guess not...
  
on the contrary, income
generated from a casino-entertainment center would be a boom to our
crumbling city.

>> But the presence of casino-entertainment brings its own set of
>> social problems, not the least of which would be the potential for
>> more crime. Yes it would generate an increase in the city's
>> revenues, and some sort of economic boom, but the question that
>> really needs to be masked is: will the negative aspects of casino
>> gambling overshadow the positive gain?  Will the increase in 
>> social ills offset the increase in tax revenue?  Some people who
>> have studied Atlantic City believe that this may be the case.

 William as you say some but not the majority. Again do you have
 any idea what your talking about this is not Atlantic City.

Chicago was once known as a convention and tourism center.  

>> And it still is.  Ever tried booking a convention of any size in 
>> Chicago?  You have to reserve it years in advance.  Ever tried
>> booking even a simple wedding reception?  Better plan at least
>> a year ahead!

  William   SO whos talking about a stupid wedding.


>> We have the world's busiest airport and for years we were the hub
>> of night life in the Midwest. Lately all that has been changing. 
>> Oh?  What midwestern town has overshadowed Chicago in terms of
>> "night life"?

   William  I guess you haven't heard about " Brandon,Missouri "
   that small town in a few years will blow Chicago away in tersm
   of " yuppie night-life ". Do more research.

With Sun-Belt
cities like Houston and Atlanta developing their tourism base,

Sun-Belt != Midwest.  Please try to focus your arguments.

        William  If you can't focus  don't stand up.

If you Ban casino gambling in Chicago, you MUST also ban every OTHER
form of gambling  " Lottery , Horse racing , Bingo and RiverBoat
gambling. Wouldn't it just make more sense to legalize it?

>> Well, that argument simply doesn't make sense.  How are the two
>> related?

  William again time to spoon feed you . Open your mouth.
  gambling is gambling why is it ok for one group and bad
  for another.  

>> I personally am rather scared of this casino gambling thing.  I'm
>> not so sure that I want to live in the suburb of the next Las
>> Vegas. 

  William   SO .

I like Chicago, but I don't think I'd want to stay around here if it
gets turned in to the gambling capitol of the midwest.

   William I understand it's hard for people as yourself who can't
   see the real world as it is Chicago is dying slowly. 

>> I vote NO. 

   William ------ SO ?   

   William LeFebvre
   Computing Facilities Manager and Anal yst
   Department of Electrical Engineering and Computer Science 
   Northwestern University
   <phil\@eecs.nwu.edu>

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