HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: jwstuart@ecst.csuchico.edu (Jesse William Leo Stuart)
Subject: Interesting Sub Item
Organization: California State University, Chico
Date: Wed, 12 Aug 1992 20:35:10 GMT


From jwstuart@ecst.csuchico.edu (Jesse William Leo Stuart)


From jwstuart@ecst.csuchico.edu (Jesse William Leo Stuart)

	My Dad served aboard the USS Snook (Skipjack class SSN).  He told me
that the fastest the sub went was 30 knots on trials, but they never took it
over 24 knots after that.  The problem is that the propeller shaft would 
twist up to 1.5 times ahead of the screw rotation.  In other words, the 
propeller was turning up to 1.5 revolutions *later* than the shaft.  Sailing
at 25+ knots could "wring" the propeller right off the shaft the same way
a farmer wrings a chickens neck!  He also told me that another submarine,
whos name I've forgotten, actually did wring the propeller, and had to be
tugged back to harbor.  This is only a problem with nuclear boats I would
imagine, since conventional boat's propellers won't need to turn as fast.

Jess Stuart
CSUC Chico CA


Newsgroups: sci.military
From: shuksan!major@bcstec.ca.boeing.com (Mike Schmitt)
Subject: Re: (Pre-)WW2 unit insignia id
Organization: The Boeing Co., MMST, Seattle, Wa.
Date: Wed, 12 Aug 1992 20:44:07 GMT


From shuksan!major@bcstec.ca.boeing.com (Mike Schmitt)




From shuksan!major@bcstec.ca.boeing.com (Mike Schmitt)


: I have a little book from 1942 that illustrates US military insignia
: and it lists a "36th Infantry Division", both in WWI and the
: then-current WWII. However, the insignia it depicts for that unit, in
: both wars, is a down-pointing arrowhead (with an irregular outline,
: indicating a chipped-flint arrowhead), colored bright blue, with a
: yellow "T" in the middle of it. [I have no idea what the "T" means;
: the book gives no explanations, just pictures with unit designtions.]

  Probably the 36th Inf Div out of Texas.  There no longer is a '36th Inf
  Div' on the roles of either Active, National Guard, nor Reserve.

  If memory serves - elements of the 36th Div were the ones trapped and
  cut off in Italy (WWII) and the 442d Regimental Combat Team (of Nisai
  Japanese-Americans) fought through to rescue the Texans.

  After the war, Audie Murphy was a captain in the 36th Div (Texas National
  Guard) - I have a book on Audie Murphy which shows him in the 36th - 
  wearing the patch you describe.  (now I'm going home to check the book
  to make sure I have my facts straight......)

      
  
-- 
Mike Schmitt - Disclaimer: These opinions are not my employer's.  My opinions 
are protected by the 1st Amendment of the Constitution of the United States of
America.  If you don't like it - get out of my country.   
"Professionals are predictable, it's the amateurs that are dangerous."

Newsgroups: sci.military
From: creps@silver.ucs.indiana.edu (Steve Creps)
Subject: Re: Why execute spies? and Re: depleted uranium
Organization: Indiana University
Date: Wed, 12 Aug 1992 20:25:06 GMT


From creps@silver.ucs.indiana.edu (Steve Creps)




From creps@silver.ucs.indiana.edu (Steve Creps)

>>war.  (After all, no one is dying.)  During peace, opposing parties generally
>>trade captured spies.
>[deletions]
>Some exceptions do exist:
>(1) Julius and Ethel Rosenberg in 1953[?4?]

   I believe they were executed for treason, rather than just espionage.


CORRECTION

   In a previous post I said depleted uranium was not radioactive.  What I
should have said was "not _very_ radioactive."  A mental lapse on my part.

   Can someone confirm the following: when U decays it does so into other
lighter elements.  If I remember correctly, these lighter elements decay
into still lighter elements, until the decay reaches a stable
(non-radioactive) element (Pb?).

-	-	-	-	-	-	-	-	-	-
Steve Creps
creps@silver.ucs.indiana.edu
Associate (civilian) Member, United States Naval Institute

Newsgroups: sci.military
From: viking@iastate.edu (Dan Sorenson)
Subject: Re: Why execute spies? and Re: depleted uranium
Organization: Iowa State University, Ames IA
Date: Fri, 14 Aug 1992 18:49:46 GMT


From viking@iastate.edu (Dan Sorenson)

 creps@silver.ucs.indiana.edu (Steve Creps) writes:

>>Some exceptions do exist:
>>(1) Julius and Ethel Rosenberg in 1953[?4?]

>   I believe they were executed for treason, rather than just espionage.

	This is correct as far as I know.  In addition, both are automatic
death sentences.  One wonders why "Hanoi Jane" wasn't sentenced as well in
the Vietnam action?

>   Can someone confirm the following: when U decays it does so into other
>lighter elements.  If I remember correctly, these lighter elements decay
>into still lighter elements, until the decay reaches a stable
>(non-radioactive) element (Pb?).

	You are correct, so far as I've been taught.  The "daughter"
isotopes may be more or less radioactive than the parent they decayed
from, but this depends on nucleus construction of the isotope in question,
and the really hot ones decay so fast it's hardly worth mentioning unless
you happen to be holding one.  The form of radiation emitted also varies
from daughter to daughter and isotope to isotope.  The decay of Uranium
into lighter isotopes follows a bell-shaped curve, with the x-axis being
the atomic number of the isotope in question and the Y the amount.  The
final product is lead (Pb), which is not radioactive.

	Please post any corrections to the above under a different
subject, as this is somewhat astray from the present subject line.

<Dan Sorenson, DoD #1066 |"There'll be angels on Ariels in leather>
<z1dan@exnet.iastate.edu | and chrome, Ridin' down from heaven    >
<viking@iastate.edu      | just to carry me home." -- R. Thompson >
< ISU thinks I need more education, which they provide for a fee. >


Newsgroups: sci.military
From: barroux@licancabur.Corp.Sun.COM (Juan Carlos Barroux - CS Eng. - Latin America)
Subject: Re: Muskets and Archery
Organization: Sun Microsystems, Inc.
Date: Wed, 12 Aug 1992 20:26:12 GMT


From barroux@licancabur.Corp.Sun.COM (Juan Carlos Barroux - CS Eng. - Latin America)




From barroux@licancabur.Corp.Sun.COM (Juan Carlos Barroux - CS Eng. - Latin America)

In article 22274@lawday.DaytonOH.NCR.COM, billb@is.rice.edu (William Stenson Blackwell) writes:
>
>From billb@is.rice.edu (William Stenson Blackwell)
>
>The use of bows in the military continues today.  The 2em Regimente Etrangere
>(i.e. the French Foreign Legion) still have crossbows as general issue weapons.
>They have found them particularly useful in the jungles of South America where
>they want a noiseless sniping weapon that still has comparable range and power 
>to a more traditional weapon.  

 Chilean commandos do even parade with some of their mens with a
crossbows (and a gun across the shoulders). I have some photos. They
are used for guards supression at long range. For short range, the old
fashioned way of a knife is considered to be better.

 Speaking for himself,

 Juan Carlos

Newsgroups: sci.military
From: tim@ais.org (Tim Tyler)
Subject: Re: Need WWMCSS connectivity info
Organization: UMCC
Date: Fri, 14 Aug 1992 18:43:24 GMT


From tim@ais.org (Tim Tyler)

 The World Wide Military Command Control System (WWMCCS) processes
classified information, & as such, is isolated from networks such as
Internet.   Also, WWMCCS access is limited, & certainly for official use
only.


-- 
 Tim Tyler   Internet: tim@ais.org  MCI Mail: 442-5735  C$erve: 72571,1005
P.O. Box 443     Packet: KA8VIR @KA8UNZ.#SEMI.MI.USA.NA
Ypsilanti MI
48197-0443                  PADI, USPA, AFCEA, INEOA, P226, VFR700, etc.

Newsgroups: sci.military
From: amlovell@phoenix.princeton.edu (Anthony M Lovell)
Subject: Re: Vincennes book - Storm Center
Organization: Princeton University
Date: Wed, 12 Aug 1992 20:24:17 GMT


From amlovell@phoenix.princeton.edu (Anthony M Lovell)




From amlovell@phoenix.princeton.edu (Anthony M Lovell)

  The "terrorist bombing" of the minivan of the wife of the Vincenne's
Captain ROgers was no such thing.  Later investigation proved that it
was a quite tawdry result of a love affair gotten ugly.  You'll notice
nothing ever became of the "terrorist" hunt for the perps.  It was some
guy or woman who was upset that Mr/Mrs Rogers was not leaving their
spouse for them.
  Does anyone have detgails on this?  I only know I heard it months
after the fact and took the dissipation of the "terror" angle to be a
strong confirmation since such an investigation would have been a strong
news item.

-- 
amlovell@phoenix.princeton.edu     ...since 1963.


Newsgroups: sci.military
From: Steven.Schultz <Steven.Schultz@mixcom.mixcom.com>
Subject: -29 information requested
Organization: Milwaukee Internet Xchange BBS, Milwaukee, WI U.S.A.
Date: Wed, 12 Aug 1992 20:38:44 GMT


From Steven.Schultz <Steven.Schultz@mixcom.mixcom.com>


From Steven.Schultz <Steven.Schultz@mixcom.mixcom.com>

I have been looking through the information that I have, and have not
been able to find the aircraft known as the Sukhoi Su-29. If someone
out there with a Jane's could give me any information on it, or know's
anything of it, it would be greatly appreciated. Thanks.

-- 
Steve Schultz     Steven.Schultz@mixcom.com

Newsgroups: sci.military
From: techsy005@spacm1.spac.spc.com (Fred Franceschi)
Subject: Re: Origin of Strategic Orders
Organization: Security Pacific Automation Co., LA, CA
Date: Thu, 13 Aug 1992 20:08:30 GMT


From techsy005@spacm1.spac.spc.com (Fred Franceschi)

The commander states the requirement to his staff, ie. "take hill 219",
"bomb Baghdad".

The Chief of Staff and his staff develop plans to achieve the objective.
These plans include the logistics requirements, consider enemy capability,
terrain and weather conditions, control procedures, and our own capabilities.

The commander reviews the plans with the staff and selects the plan that
best meets the commander's intent, indicates changes to the concept, or
does a "back to the drawing board".

The plan includes information necessary for subordinate units to support
their part of the plan.

To implement the plan, it has dates/times established, and becomes an
"Order".
-- 

Fred Franceschi
techsy105@spacm1.spac.spc.com
    
My statements may not be my companys.
Brilliant, witty saying goes here.

Newsgroups: sci.military
From: ke4zv!gary@gatech.edu (Gary Coffman)
Subject: Re: DoD News 08/05/92 ... any interest?
Organization: Gannett Technologies Group
Date: Wed, 12 Aug 1992 20:41:15 GMT


From ke4zv!gary@gatech.edu (Gary Coffman)


From ke4zv!gary@gatech.edu (Gary Coffman)

In article <BsKCMx.E0D@lawday.DaytonOH.NCR.COM> bergman@afnews.pa.af.mil (CMSgt Mike Bergman) writes:
[transcript of press briefing deleted]

This is great primary source material! If the list doesn't mind, please
keep this sort of thing coming. The press gives such a limited and watered
down account of these things, having the official transcripts is very
useful.

Gary


Newsgroups: sci.military
From: mat@mole-end.matawan.nj.us
Subject: Re: Wake Island (WAS Re: 10 Worst Generals)
Organization: :
Date: Wed, 12 Aug 1992 20:47:37 GMT


From mat@mole-end.matawan.nj.us




From mat@mole-end.matawan.nj.us

In article <1992Jul29.130413.22707@lawday.DaytonOH.NCR.COM>, swilliam@oasys.dt.navy.mil (Steve Williams) writes:
 
> Actually, Wake repulsed two Japanese attacks before they succumbed in 
> the third attack.  Wake held out as long as its small air force existed; 
> soon after its last plane was shot down Wake's defense collapsed. Wake's 
> planes created a lot of problems for the Japanese invasion group and 
> kept the Japanese ships at distance.  It was the planes from the Hiryu 
> and Soryu that wiped out the remainder of Wake's air force, leading 
> to the downfall of Wake.  It was a lesson in air power.

What sort of losses did the Japanese fliers take?  Was the US resistance
at Wake a factor in exhausting the pool of accomplished naval pilots?
-- 
 (This man's opinions are his own.)
 From mole-end				Mark Terribile

 mat@mole-end.matawan.nj.us, Somewhere in Matawan, NJ

Newsgroups: sci.military
From: ntaib@silver.ucs.indiana.edu (Iskandar Taib)
Subject: Osmium????? (Re: depleted uranium)
Organization: Indiana University
Date: Fri, 21 Aug 1992 13:26:40 GMT


From ntaib@silver.ucs.indiana.edu (Iskandar Taib)

In article <Bsw1nI.2nD@lawday.DaytonOH.NCR.COM> d89-jsp@nada.kth.se (Arthur Sparrendahl) writes:

>Uranium is less dens than for instanse osmium but the prise
>of a kilogram of uranium today is less than $20.



Once again... does anyone really use Osmium in tank shells? It must
be incredibly expensive, since it is a Platinum Group Element, which
are usually sold by the _ounce_.





-- 
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Iskandar Taib                          | The only thing worse than Peach ala
Internet: NTAIB@SILVER.UCS.INDIANA.EDU |    Frog is Frog ala Peach
Bitnet:   NTAIB@IUBACS                 !

Newsgroups: sci.military
From: Mahan_Stephen@lanmail.ncsc.navy.mil
Subject: Phonetic alphabet correction
Organization: NCR Corporation - Law Department
Date: Fri, 21 Aug 1992 13:18:21 GMT


From Mahan_Stephen@lanmail.ncsc.navy.mil


A few issues ago you listed the phonetic alphabet in response to a 
question by a poster.  Excellent job until the last letter, which is 
zulu instead of zebra in both the USAF and Ham Radio phonetic alphabets.

[mod note -- being a pilot, I should have caught that, but I guess my
fingers just got ahead of my brain.  However, does anybody out there know
the phonetic alphabet that was used before the current one?  The one that
starts able, baker, charlie, dog...... 

Steve]


steve
former USAF
KD4NGU

Newsgroups: sci.military
From: viking@iastate.edu (Dan Sorenson)
Subject: Re: Origin of Strategic Orders
Organization: Iowa State University, Ames IA
Date: Thu, 13 Aug 1992 20:08:18 GMT


From viking@iastate.edu (Dan Sorenson)

 grayt@Software.Mitel.COM (Tom Gray) writes:

>How does a
>supreme commander create a system which can translate
>his necessarily conceptual orders into detailed 

	His staff.  A general gives the general plan.  His
staff works out the details.  That is why sargeants and
chief petty officers are generally known to run the armed
forces, despite what the generals and admirals think.

<Dan Sorenson, DoD #1066 |"There'll be angels on Ariels in leather>
<z1dan@exnet.iastate.edu | and chrome, Ridin' down from heaven    >
<viking@iastate.edu      | just to carry me home." -- R. Thompson >
< ISU thinks I need more education, which they provide for a fee. >


Newsgroups: sci.military
From: billb@owlnet.rice.edu (William Stenson Blackwell)
Subject: Smoothbore Weapons (was Re: DU)
Organization: Rice University
Date: Mon, 17 Aug 1992 12:39:36 GMT


From billb@owlnet.rice.edu (William Stenson Blackwell)

As I said earlier, I wasn't cuddled up with Jane's. But to answer a few
questions that I do know (?):

The reason that the 120mm M1Ax cannon doesn't have a HEAT round (?), if
my memory isn't crashing now, is that it is a smoothbore and they can't
manufacture a round that isn't APDS that has the proper accurracy.  The 
reason that it's a smoothbore is to eliminate the slowdown caused by the
rifling.  The fin-stabilized rounds are just that big darts (go to a pub ;)).

Along this thread, there is also an APDS round made for shotguns, ala the
movie Alien Nation.  They are very good at penetrating things that don't
have hardened armor.  As the secondary effect of the flechette is the 
shattering that follows a breach in the armor (lots o' nasty shrapnel),
I'm curious about the effect this might have if used in a special duty 
weapon.  While many special forces (my hobby) use shotguns, their is one 
weapon in particular that I am curious about.  It is manufactured by 
SAM, inc. and it is called the Crossfire.  It is a hybrid 12 ga. on top,
and a 7.62mm assault rifle on the bottom.  (the shells for the shotgun
look like they are kept in the buttstock arm)  It looks like an impressive
(intimidating) weapon that would be very useful to SEALs, GBs, SAS, etc.
Anyone know anything more? 
-- 
Bill Blackwell             P H P <==me!   "A just request is to be met
billb@owlnet.rice.edu     F L L F       in silence, by the act."
Houston, Texas, USA          8       -Dante Alighieri "Inferno" XXIV ln.77-78
"My opinions are mine, no one else is that stupid"

Newsgroups: sci.military
From: military@att.att.com (Bill Thacker)
Subject: 50 Years Ago: Friday, 14 August, 1942
Followup-To: soc.history
Organization: NCR Corporation - Law Department
Date: Fri, 14 Aug 1992 18:37:51 GMT


From military@att.att.com (Bill Thacker)

Friday, 14 August, 1942

The four surviving freighters of the Pedestal convoy reach Malta.  The
tanker Ohio, badly damaged, is under tow toward the island.  Axis aircraft,
submarines, and motor torpedo boats attack the British escort force
returning to Gibraltar.

The German 6th Army completes the conquest of the Don River bend area and
turns its full strength toward Stalingrad.

References:
C.Argyle, _Chronology of World War II_
R.Dupuy and T.Dupuy, _The Encyclopedia of Military History_
R.Goralski, _World War II Almanac, 1931-1945_
J.Keegan, ed., _The Times Atlas of the Second World War_
C.Messenger, _Atlas of World War Two_
J.Piekalkiewicz, _Tank War 1939-1940_
Royal Institute of International Affairs, _Chronology of the Second 
	World War_
C.Salmaggi and A.Pallavisini, _2194 Days of War_
Brig. P.Young, _The World Almanac of World War II_
The New York Times, daily editions
Time magazine
Newsweek

--	--	--	--	--	--	--	--	--
Bill Thacker			            military@att.att.com
Send submissions for "50 Years Ago" to military-request@att.att.com

"Wing Commander Max Aitken, Lord Beaverbrook's son, revealed in a broadcast
tonight that his Czech squadron had shot down a German "super-bomber" -- the
Heinkel 177 -- believed to be able to carry a 1,000-pound bomb load from
Brest to New York and make the return trip to France." - United Press
From: lafford@serum.clpd.Kodak.COM (Rick Lafford)
Newsgroups: sci.military
Subject: Re: is the A-10 going bye-bye?
Date: 20 Aug 92 16:39:47 GMT
Organization: NCR Corporation - Law Department


From Rick Lafford <lafford@serum.clpd.Kodak.COM>

In a recent posting, asp+@pitt.edu (Anandeep Pannu) said:

>In fact HAL (Hindustan Aeronautics Ltd) came up with a version of the Mig-21
>that was unique to India (it was called the Mig-21M ) to overcome the Su-7s
>shortcomings. This had a Mig-21MF airframe with the Tumansky R-11 engine of 
>the  Mig-21FL. It was a great success (though a lot of adaptions had to be 
>made) in IAF service. It was small, agile and fast. 

>So I think that the F-16 would be a good choice for close air support today. 
>Its agile, its fast and it has the avionics to do the job. I wouldnt like to
>be an A-10 pilot in any environment with any sort of defensive capability.


This is the same debate the USAF has been having for some time but I
think Desert Storm really proved a point. A-10's are tough aircraft
and F-16's are relatively fragile. Several A-10's came back with LARGE
chunks of airframe missing but come back they did. They are slow but
they also have lots of advantages the F-16 or any other Close Air Support
aircraft may lack. Advantages like a large payload (12 AGM-65), long
loiter time (2hr. on station unrefueled), twin relatively cool engines
for redundancy and IR supression, twin tails, triple redundant control 
systems with a  mechanical backup, titanium armour for the pilot and 
a proven anti-armour  gun system for use when the SAM threat is low.  

To compare with other aircraft not armed with a capable guided standoff
missile would be infair and the A-10 certainly isn't a very capable 
dogfighter and doesn't even have the gunsight for it. But given the mission
it was designed for, it's a very effective weapon system.  Just ask the
Iraqi troops trying to leave Kuwait City.

The F-16 has some advantages of it's own but it lacks a gun that it can
really use. The New York Air Guard developed a 30mm gun pod for the 
aircraft but they found that in practice, they tended to pick-up too
much flak in getting close enough to employ the gun. The F-16 is 
sensitive and relatively thin skinned, single engine, etc. They resorted
to using AGM-65's and the F-16 can only carry six of these when carrying 
the centerline fuel tank it required to go the needed distance into Iraq.
Give the conditions, the A-10 carried more ordinance to the target, 
just slower.

No flames intended, I'd rather drive an F-16 too!.

	Regards, 
	Rick

---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Rick Lafford			|Kodak Clinical Products - "You draw the blood
Eastman Kodak Co.		|and we'll do the rest."
lafford@serum.kodak.com	|
===========================================================================
Newsgroups: sci.military
From: ntaib@silver.ucs.indiana.edu (Iskandar Taib)
Subject: Re: Phalanx Ammo [was Re: Tracers]
Organization: Indiana University
Date: Fri, 21 Aug 1992 13:22:48 GMT


From ntaib@silver.ucs.indiana.edu (Iskandar Taib)

In article <Bsw0ML.LwE@lawday.DaytonOH.NCR.COM> andy@sail.stanford.edu (Andy Freeman) writes:

>It's my understanding that there is/was some interest in other
>materials for a mission-related reason.  Apparently projectiles going
>"fast enough" don't lose velocity as fast as slower projectiles.  The
>guns involved just can't generate the required velocity with heavy
>projectiles.  (It's a bit more complicated than that.)  So, by
>switching to a lighter projectile with appropriate characteristics,
>they get much greater effective range even if there is a "up close"
>advantage to the DU rounds.  The value of this switch depends on the
>mission.

This is why DU ammunition for tank guns are of the discarding 
sabot variety. This way you can use a sub-caliber projectile 
that doesn't weigh very much more than a regular AP projectile,
but has a much larger sectional density. Since the gun is push-
ing on a larger area, it can generate more force at the same 
pressure, thereby accelerating the projectile more than would 
be possible if it were fired in a smaller diameter gun.
 



-- 
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Iskandar Taib                          | The only thing worse than Peach ala
Internet: NTAIB@SILVER.UCS.INDIANA.EDU |    Frog is Frog ala Peach
Bitnet:   NTAIB@IUBACS                 !

Newsgroups: sci.military