HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: sherwood@fenris.space.ualberta.ca (Sherwood Botsford)
Subject: Re: Mission to Planet Earth
Organization: University Of Alberta, Edmonton Canada
Distribution: na
Date: Thu, 13 Aug 1992 00:05:50 GMT

Ilana Stern writes
> In article <10295@sun13.scri.fsu.edu>, stricher@masig.fsu.edu (Char Aznabul)  
writes:
> > Mark Goodman writes
> > + >3) How are we going to use all that data?  Does NASA have a
> > 
> > A better question would be: how are we going to STORE all that
> > data, and make sizable portions available to the research community?
> 
> NASA Space Science Data Center (NSSDC) at Goddard Space Flight Center.
> I imagine they will release chunks on CD-ROMs, as they have with other
> data.  I think we (NCAR's Data Support Section) may get some too.

Wait a minute.  Aren't we talking on the order of a terabyte per day?  That's  
the figure my boss floats around.  That's 1600 CDs per day.
From: hayes@valkris.aero.org (Brian Hayes 74-35 x65129)
Newsgroups: sci.geo.meteorology
Subject: Re: Mission to Planet Earth
Date: 17 Aug 92 19:57:10 GMT
Distribution: na
Organization: Hughes Aircraft Company, EDSG

In article <56844@mentor.cc.purdue.edu> gpetty@rain.atms.purdue.edu (Grant W. Petty) writes:

>This illustrates why government procurement has such a horrible
>reputation for wastefulness.  Why not just say to the lowest bidder,
>"OK, that's your estimate and you got our contract based on that
>estimate; now we (and the taxpayers) are going to hold you to it, come
>hell or high water, and make YOU eat any cost overruns!"

That's a nice idea; but, have you ever tried bid something that has
never been made before?  And, then meet schedule? without working over
40 hours per week?  Keep in mind, if you bid too conservatively, you
competititors get the job and you then need to lay-off employees.

-- 
| Brian Hayes		| "One person's requirement is another	|
| (310) 616-5129	|  person's design." - I.A.Pirbahi	|
| hayes@hac2arpa.hac.com| <standard disclaimer here>		|
Newsgroups: sci.geo.meteorology
From: bg055@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Stewart Rowe)
Subject: Help on Acid Rain
Organization: Case Western Reserve University, Cleveland, Ohio, (USA)
Date: Sat, 15 Aug 92 22:58:29 GMT


The John Birch Society is telling its members that acid rain is a
fiction, that the National Acid Precipitation Assessment Program
spent $500 MM looking for evidence of acid rain and damage from
it and found none, that it is all a conspiracy to take power away
from their kind of people.
 
Now this issue, I though, had been fairly well settled some years
ago, so I don't have any current references, and the libraries
seem to have nothing on NAPAP except some Congressional Committee
hearing reports from 1984. 
 
Can anyone please point me at good sources (certainly NOT popular
books for believers, thank you), or provide or did up from their
archives the equivalent of an FAQ on this subject? These Birchers
are probably not persuadable, but others who have read their stuff
need an antidote.
	 -Stewart Rowe usr2210a@tso.uc.edu  srowe@igc.org
Newsgroups: sci.geo.meteorology
From: hannegan@hyperion.gsfc.nasa.gov (Bryan Hannegan)
Subject: Re: Rainclouds
Organization: NASA Goddard Space Flight Center, Greenbelt, MD
Date: Thu, 13 Aug 1992 18:39:15 GMT

In article <1992Aug13.164925.19545@kakwa.ucs.ualberta.ca> sherwood@fenris.space.ualberta.ca (Sherwood Botsford) writes:
>
>Hmm.  The climate warms up, the freezing level rises.  Less lighting.  Less  
>forest fires, more carbon fixed, climate cools.
>
>Wonder if  this is a significant part of the feedback loop

Instincts  are telling me no, it won't be that significant. Forest fire releases
of carbon dioixde are not necessarily as large of a co2 release as the man-made
releases. Also, not a whole lot of the forest fires begin with lightning, at 
least those that we know of. Speaking from pure radiative transfer, it is a 
good arguement, IF lightning caused forest-fires were a significant source of
carbon dioxide.

Anyone else?


Bryan Hannegan
University of California, Irvine
Department of Geosciences
hannegan@halo.ps.uci.edu


Xref: sparky sci.geo.meteorology:2746 comp.sys.mac.apps:13209
From: stricher@masig.fsu.edu (Char Aznabul)
Newsgroups: sci.geo.meteorology,comp.sys.mac.apps
Subject: hurricane tracking software for the mac?
Date: 12 Aug 92 23:06:01 GMT
Followup-To: sci.geo.meteorology
Distribution: na


Is there hurricane tracking software available for the mac?

James
From: aberson@enh.nist.gov
Newsgroups: sci.geo.meteorology
Subject: RE: Seeking description of Hurricane tracking models currently in use
Date: 21 Aug 92 14:07:28 GMT
Organization: NIST

It's time for a shameless plug!

In a previous article, aesr137@phobos.ucc.umass.edu (Karl Stapelfeldt) wrote:
>Apparently, there are at least 4 different models to project the storm's
>course and today they aren't agreeing very well.  I can guess that the
>NHC model is National Hurricane Center ... what are the QLM, BAM, and VICBAR
>models ?  Can anyone describe how these models differ in approach and detail,
>or suggest where this information can be found ?  Thanks in advance for any
>information.

There are a lot more than four.  Here is a short description.

CLIPER is climatology and persistence.  Usually helpful only for short time
periods.  It is the benchmark for verification.

NHC90 is a set of statistical dynamical models.  It uses statistics to forecast
storm motion based on the AVIATION run at NMC.

BAM is a set of beta and advection models, one using deep-layer mean, one
medium-layer mean, and one shallow-layer mean.  They uses barotropic advection
in addition to the beta affect to forecast motion.

QLM is a the most sophisticated model used.  It is a Quasi-Lagrangian model
developed at NMC.  It is a multi-level primitive equation model, that usually 
performs very well.

VICBAR is a deep-layer mean nested barotropic model with baroclinic boundary
conditions.  This is my baby.  This model has outperformed all other models
in 1989, and so far in 1992.

In addition the AVIATION and UKMET models forecast motion, and there are
other experimental versions of these models run on a regular basis.  For
further information, see:

DeMaria, M., M. B. Lawrence, and J. T. Kroll, 1990:  An error analysis of
     Atlantic tropical cyclone track guidance models.  Wea. Forecasting,
     5, 47-61.

Demaria, M., S. D. Aberson, K. V. Ooyama, and S. J. Lord, 1992:  A nested
     spectral model for hurricane track forecasting.  Mon. Wea. Rev., 120,
     1628-1643.

Mathur, M. B., 1991:  The National Meteorological Center's quasi-Lagrangian
     model for hurricane prediction.  Mon. Wea. Rev., 119, 1419-1447.

       Sim Aberson   Ft. Lauderdale, FL   aberson%3328.span@sdsc.edu
"It's always Beach Party Barbie, or Malibu Barbie....  That shit does not
prepare you for the true horror of a real woman's life.  Where is Single,
Abused, Trailer-Park Barbie?"             - Roseanne Arnold
From: stricher@masig.fsu.edu (Char Aznabul)
Newsgroups: sci.geo.meteorology
Subject: Re: Mission to Planet Earth
Date: 15 Aug 92 19:24:15 GMT
Distribution: na

Mark Goodman writes

+ Has anyone thought of trying to develop software "triggers" to filter the
+ raw data and flag any that seem interesting or unusual?  It seems that this
+ would be extremely difficult, but also potentially extremely valuable.

Unless I'm in far, far left field, we don't really know what a lot of the
interesting and unsual signals are.  Worse yet, it's usually a trend - 
you'd have to keep track of your trigger for weeks, perhaps months before 
it becomes significant.

+ How are priorities determined for which data analyses to perform first?  Is
+ there any formal procedure, or is it just done on the basis of individual
+ scientists' interests?  If there is a formal procedure, does it contain
+ any guidance about the most important policy questions?

Mostly on what gets funded. Not that many people do science for the sake
of science. It's a job like any other. Granted, I prefer to work on things
I'd like to work on, but I will work on things that people will pay me
for first.

Given that I've only seen the proposal writing from a distance and have 
never done it myself, yes, there is guidance, and there are emphaphises 
toward's certain objectives...depending on the funding agency, the
nature of the call for proposals, etc.

I have my doubts if that's the best way to do science, but that is the
way things are.

James
From: fauvel@IRO.UMontreal.CA (Sylvain Fauvel)
Newsgroups: sci.geo.meteorology
Subject: Meteorological prediction on the net
Date: 18 Aug 92 14:17:09 GMT
Organization: Universite de Montreal


Hello all,

	I am not a regular reader of this group, this has probably
    already asked:  is there a way to access local meteo. predictions
    through the net.  I would like to get foreign countries predictions
    Thanks,

							Sylvain Fauvel
Newsgroups: sci.geo.meteorology,sci.physics
From: ajedgar@quantum.on.ca (Andrew Edgar)
Subject: pressure at the center of the earth?
Date: Thu, 20 Aug 92 16:03:27 GMT
Organization: Quantum Software Systems
Distribution: na
Keywords: pressure, earth core, blackhole, truth or consequences 

To settle a difference of opinion <grin> I would be most grateful
for an answer and explanation for this question:

	"What is the pressure at or near the center of the earth,
	 is it very large or very small?"

	(for the time being please leave blackholes out of this one)

From the little I've been able to gather from some not so academic
reference books the earth's core is something like this:
  o Is approximately 3400km in diameter
  o Is approximately 6 100 deg C
  o Is mostly liquid
  o The center 5% of the core may be solid
  o Has a higher than average concentration of iron	
  o The surface of the core may have large "mountains" and 
    "valley" which are in an inverse relationship to features
    of the earth's crust
  o The gravity is near 0
  o The pressure is ???

P.S.
  Seeing as I don't post very often an additional note or two for
  you blackhole enthusiasts:
  o	You may want to have a fresh read of some of E. Velikovski(sp?)'s stuff.
  o David Brin wrote a novel about blackholes at the center of the earth
    a couple of years ago.

P.P.S
  Blackholes are out of sight!


Andrew Edgar                           Quantum Software Systems, Ltd. 
R&D                                    175 Terrence-Matthews Cr.      
Quantum Software Systems, Ltd.         Kanata, Ontario  K2M 1W8  Canada 
--
Newsgroups: sci.geo.meteorology
From: sherwood@fenris.space.ualberta.ca (Sherwood Botsford)
Subject: Surface UV increases due to ozone deterioration??
Organization: University Of Alberta, Edmonton Canada
Date: Thu, 13 Aug 1992 00:11:57 GMT


Does anyone have any numbers for this?

How much more UV (and in which bands) are reaching the surface.

How does this compare to the normal variance in UV intensity.
From: pfritsch@skid.ps.uci.edu (Paul Fritschle)
Newsgroups: sci.geo.meteorology
Subject: Re: Fall Colours
Date: 12 Aug 92 23:40:36 GMT
Distribution: na
Organization: Campus Crusade for Cthulhu

I just returned from a trip to Plattsburgh, NY (NE, west shore of Lake
Champlain). In that area, as well as US 11 from Potsdam to Syracuse I
noted a fair scattering of trees beginning to change--more than my
roommate, who grew up there, recalled seeing in past years. Here in
Pittsburgh, however, we have no changes yet, although rainfall has
been very high.. better than 8" for the month of July. Any early
predictions (or guesses) for the coming winter?

--

Paul Fritschle                                         pfritsch@skid.PS.UCI.EDU
                             Cthulhu '92
                        'The Stars are Right!'
Newsgroups: sci.geo.meteorology
From: sherwood@fenris.space.ualberta.ca (Sherwood Botsford)
Subject: Re: Calculation of Windchill?
Organization: University Of Alberta, Edmonton Canada
Date: Fri, 14 Aug 1992 23:49:47 GMT

Chris Bovitz writes
> In article <1992Aug13.194804.12723@ccu.umanitoba.ca> milton@ccu.umanitoba.ca  
(Dave Milton) writes:
> >I have temperature in degrees Celsius and wind speed in nautical
> >miles per hour. What is the formula I need to calculate wind
> >chill factor in watts per square metre?
> 
> Or wind chill in degrees Celsius for us Americans, please?

Sorry, but that's not a meaningful question.
It turns out that still air cooling of people depends on too many things  
besides temperature.  Humidity affects dispersion of water vapour from  
clothing, which in turn changes insulation value,  Humidity also changes the  
amount of evaporation from lungs and throat, which is a major source of heat  
loss.  Body position affects conventive cooling.  Solar radiation is also very  
significant.  These effects are all to big to ignore.

When the wind speed gets to about 4-5 knots (8-10 Kph) it dominates the other  
terms, and so you can figure it by itself, and ignore the rest.

If you use Windchill charts, the lines typically are dashed below 10 kph and  
stop at 5 kph, as being too meaningless.

In practical terms, reporting WC in Watts/m^2 is more useful to me.  I have  
found that it correlates much better than did the equivalent temperature  
ratings.  (How many times have you been outside on a still sunny day at -35 and  
felt quite comfortable, but found that you had to dress quite differently at  
-10 with a 20 mph wind, that the weatherman said was equivalent to -35?)

Like the transition from F to C, it didn't sink in until I experienced a year  
of it, and found out what 30 C feels like.  Now I'm bi-measure-al.  This system  
just plain works better.  It doesn't convert well to temperature.

I found the following rules of thumb:
W/m^2		Dress:
1200		Jacket
1400		Jacket + toque + mitts
1600		Add scarf - change jacket to heaver one. 
1800		Add a layer.  
2000		Parka.
2200		Parka, hood up. 2 part mitts (shell & liner)
2400		Parka, face mask, extra sweater. Great care to not sweat. 
		Buddy system.  Continious activity.
2600		Extreme caution. 
2800		Time over half an hour not recommended.

The values above 2400 I've experienced only rarely, and are at the limits of my  
equipment.

Note:  Prolonged exposure will speed up your metabolism enough to make a  
difference.  On dogsled expeditions of a week, I find that I would be dressing  
about 400 watts/m^2 lighter by the end of the trip.


2600		
Xref: sparky sci.comp-aided:156 sci.electronics:14266
From: fhl@milton.u.washington.edu (Dean Pentcheff)
Newsgroups: sci.comp-aided,sci.electronics
Subject: Battery powering a PC expansion chassis?
Date: 12 Aug 92 17:06:53 GMT
Article-I.D.: u.1992Aug12.170653.22114
Reply-To: dean2@rocky.geol.scarolina.edu (Dean Pentcheff)
Followup-To: sci.comp-aided
Organization: Department of Biology, University of South Carolina, Columbia

After months of searching (and perusing the latest PC Magazine review
of 80 laptops), it has become evident that essentially no one makes a
laptop or notebook with an ISA (AT-type) card slot.  I guess the main
reasons for such slots (modems and network adapters) have been taken
care of in other ways.

Be that as it may, I'm still trying to put together a field portable
data acquisition system.  I want to use a generic A/D board, supported
by generic software, so neato-nifty parallel/serial port solutions are
out.

Most laptops and notebooks, though they don't have an ISA slot
internally, support an external expansion chassis which will take
standard boards.  These expansion units are AC powered and (I assume)
contain a power supply which generates the standard 5 V and 12 V power
on which PCs feed.

It occurs to me that it should be possible to rip out the power supply
in one of these expansion units and replace it with a battery and a
little magic circuitry to generate the needed voltages.  As you may
gather, I'm an electronics nimrod, so this seems plausible to me, but I
can't tell if it's actually feasible.

So, here are the questions:
1) Has anyone done this before?
2) What sort of batteries might be appropriate for this?
3) What magical little bits of circuitry would be needed?
4) Is this a totally impractical idea?

I'll happily summarize and post the results.
Newsgroups: sci.econ
From: jwales@copper.ucs.indiana.edu (jimmy donal wales)
Newsgroups: sci.econ
Subject: Re: Corporations (was Re: Libertarians live in Virtual Reality)
Date: 19 Aug 92 19:07:55 GMT
Article-I.D.: usenet.Bt8vt8.E4n
Distribution: usa
Organization: Indiana University

A good source for questions about the historical origins of 
corporations and the limited-liability provision in particular
is:

In Defense of the Corporation
Robert Hessen
1979

As you can guess from the title, Hessen thinks that the corporate
form is good.

I can't remember the details of his argument, but it was essentially
along the lines that all of the features of a corporation are 
consistent with traditional principles of common law.  I'm not
qualified to evaluate that claim, so I won't try to argue about it.
I just pass on the information for interested parties.

--Jimbo
Newsgroups: sci.econ,alt.individualism
From: mbb@cbnewsb.cb.att.com (martin.brilliant)
Subject: Re: Libertarians live in Virtual Reality
Organization: AT&T
Date: Thu, 20 Aug 1992 16:26:29 GMT

From article <1992Aug18.142212.3575@desire.wright.edu>, by demon@desire.wright.edu (Stupendous Man):
> In article <1992Aug17.172013.10835@cbfsb.cb.att.com>, mbb@cbnewsb.cb.att.com (martin.brilliant) writes:
> ...
>> Be assured that the present government safeguards against those
>> fraudulent and effectively criminal practices are woefully
>> inadequate.  If you want to prevent them, some agencies of the
>> government will have to be made much larger, and will have be be much
>> more intrusive into private business, than they are today.
> 
> 	Bzzzt.  Exactly the wrong approach.  Government has failed, so the
> solution is to make government bigger?
> 
> 	The "solution" is to let the victim recoup losses (through litigation
> if need be).  Right now corporations are hiding behind government regulations.

That's no solution.  When an individual tries to sue a large
corporation, the corporation throws its entire legal staff at the
victim.  There is no way an individual can keep up with the
expenditures that the corporation can afford.  And the corporation
will spend far more than the case is worth in order to make the point
that individual action won't work, so they can avoid future cases.

Think of a bottle of suntan lotion that might be ineffective and
falsely advertised.  That's not worth a lawsuit to the individual, but
it is worth a lot of money to the company that makes the stuff.  In a
case like that, I think the FDA approach is efficient.

> 	The problem is that you fail to see that the problem is government.  Not
> that government isn't big enough.

You haven't proved that the problem is government.  Remember, the
Republicans have been systematically reducing the size of those parts
of government that are chartered to prevent fraud.  That's a good way
to make them ineffective.  In effect, you're saying that if they can't
work when underfunded and otherwise hampered, they must be based on a
fundamentally flawed concept.  I don't buy that.

							Marty
marty@hoqaa.att.com		hoqaa!marty
Martin B. Brilliant		(Winnertech Corporation)	
Newsgroups: sci.econ
From: sitomlin@undergrad.math.waterloo.edu (Stephen I. Tomlinson)
Subject: The New Economy (was Economists Predict Unemployment (theirs))
Organization: University of Waterloo
Date: Tue, 18 Aug 1992 16:58:16 GMT

j368@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Mike E. Romano) writes:
>Somehow I cannot view health care as a fundamental --positive-- driving
>force in any economy.
>I prefer to look at it as a necessity.  Perhaps similar to the fire depart-
>ment.  If for some reason the U.S. is headed for a great increase in fires,
>then that would mean new jobs in fire departments...and therefore a "great
>new engine of economic growth..."

I hope the below article clarifies what is meant by Health and Medical Care.
Personally I don't see growth in this area as negative.  Consumers are
choosing to buy these products and services in greater numbers--why insult
them for doing so?

From _Canadian_Business_ magazine, Dec 1991 issue, p. 37
(its source is Nuala Beck & Associates Inc.)

"The Four Engines of Growth
"
"1) Computers and semiconductors
"     Computer Equipment
"     Semiconductors
"     Electronic Components
"     Software
"     Information services
"2) Instrumentation
"     Process control instruments
"     Industrial controls
"     Optical instruments and lenses
"     Engineering and scientific instruments
"     Instruments to measure electricity
"     Measuring and controlling devices
"     Environmental monitoring equipment
"3) Health and Medical
"     Medical Care
"     Surgical and medical instruments
"     Surgical appliances and supplies
"     X-ray and electromedical apparatus
"     Biological products
"     Medicinals and drugs
"4) Communications and Telecommunications
"     Telecommunications services
"     Telephone equipment
"     Radio and microwave communications
"     Entertainment
"     Aircraft equipment
"     Guided missiles and space vehicles

-Stephen
Newsgroups: sci.econ
From: kenr@orleans.storage.tandem.com (Ken Rose)
Subject: Re: Comparative Advantage
Organization: Tandem Computers Inc, Cupertino CA
Distribution: na
Date: Mon, 17 Aug 1992 16:03:58 GMT

In article <1992Aug14.214534.6206@gasco.com>, fpf@taurus.gasco.com (Frank Ferguson x3584) writes:
> Given the disparity between income and wage levels between the developed
> and developing world; and given the vast number of potential workers in
> the developing world's low wage pool, one would expect the process of
> lowering the industrial nation's workers wage level to go on for some
> time.  At the extreme, the wages of people in all nations would achieve
> the a common level, and given the current situation that would mean that
> wage earners in developed countries would see their wages fall to 
> equality with those of third world competitors.  

Let's think about the assumptions implicit here.  For one, Frank has
assumed that world output will remain constant, and  so capital will 
move to places with lower cost labor.  

However, if one considers the possibility of new capital
being invested in poor nations, than the world output will go
up.  If the pie gets larger, workers in developed countries can
keep their standard of living while workers in poorer countries
improve theirs.

____________________________________________________________________
Ken Rose    (kenr@storage.tandem.com)
The Usual Disclaimer:  Any opinions expressed above are mine alone, not
those of my employer (who is kind enough to allow me Usenet access).
From: mwilson@ncratl.AtlantaGA.NCR.COM (Mark Wilson)
Newsgroups: sci.econ
Subject: Re: Libertarian rebuttal..
Date: 17 Aug 92 14:56:03 GMT
Organization: NCR Engineering and Manufacturing Atlanta -- Atlanta, GA

In <1992Aug14.142837.7785@spdc.ti.com> burris@epcot.spdc.ti.com (Jim Burris) writes:

>   I'll be the last person to defend the Republicrats. However, the argument
>that these parties advocate socialism is WRONG. Socialism, by definition, is a
>system where the government owns the means of production. After all these years
>of Democrat-controlled Congress, we still have nothing approaching government
>control of the means of production. This is the famous "straw man" that
>Libertarians so often mention.

>Jim Burris

My definitions my be a bit weak. (Not unusual).  But I thought communism
was when government owned the means of production.  Under socialism,
individuals are allowed to own the means, but only under the
guidance/control of the government.  Given the pervasiveness of
modern day regulations, I do not think that describing out system as
having at the least, socialistic tendencies is very far off mark.


-- 
--Mark

Newsgroups: sci.econ