HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: vader@iat.holonet.net (Edward Blair)
Subject: PCIGC 3.9  now available via ftp
Organization: HoloNet (BBS: 510-704-1058)
Date: Fri, 28 Aug 1992 09:27:35 GMT


    PCIGC 3.9 is now available by anonymous ftp from ftp.u.washington.edu.
This version incorporates most of the updates to the unix igc .52 including 
peek, who sorting, games with m6, komi and handicap displays etc. PCIGC 3.9 
also includes a setup menu and automatically generated configuration files.
(Set the options once and they will stay the same next time you run PCIGC.)
The file pcigc39z.exe is a self-extracting zip file that will create the 
executable and documentation files. PCIGC has been compiled to be run on XT 
machines as well as later models. To use the graphic displays you need an EGA 
or VGA monitor. You can use a Microsoft mouse to play with.

Send Bug reports to vader@holonet.net. I will check them daily. I will release 
4.0 once I am satisfied that the worst bugs have been taken care of.
-- 
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Darth Vader Lord of the Sith   | Still and quiet Feline Form,
vader@holonet.net              | In the sun, asleep and warm,
In Real Life: Edward Blair     | His tail is limp, his whiskers drooped,
Newsgroups: rec.games.go
From: kring@efes.physik.uni-kl.de (Thomas Kettenring)
Subject: Re: An Ancient Japanese Go Game (Blood Spiting Game)
Organization: FB Physik, Universitaet Kaiserslautern, Germany
Date: Mon, 31 Aug 1992 12:40:30 GMT

Jialin Zhong writes:
>[..]
>Background of this game. This game played in 1831. The white is Meijin 
>and Haninbo 12 (I can't translate his name into English). The black 
>is a 7d from another Go family.

White is Honinbo Jowa, the 12th Honinbo, Black is Akaboshi Intetsu, a disciple
of Inoue Gennan Inseki, the 11th Inoue.

-- 
thomas kettenring, 2 dan, kaiserslautern, germany
Definition:  Idiot-proof  -  you are idiot-proof when you NEVER flame anybody.
Newsgroups: rec.games.go
From: s9874203@titan.ucc.umass.edu (s9874203)
Subject: Re: Commented amateur game: 2 kyu vs. 8 kyu.
Organization: University of Massachusetts, Amherst
Date: Tue, 1 Sep 1992 23:17:23 GMT

In article <1992Sep1.151435.18082@klaava.Helsinki.FI> olounela@klaava.Helsinki.FI (Olli Lounela) writes:
>
>
>PS.  I'd like to express my gratefulness to the inventors and
>implementors of the IGS (Lacerta, at the time), Tim Casey and Chris
>Chisolm, and the creators of mgt program, Adrian Marino, Michael
>Dobbins, and probably others I don't know, for making this very thing at
>all possible.  And Adrian again for keeping the Go archive, and all the
>others who have made anything of the kind, for excellent work in
>spreading Go across Internet. 
>

Oh, don't forget Greg Hale, the current manager of igs and the author of
original mgt program. Thank you, tweet. And thank you, Olli, for posting
the commented games.

bn 2k


Newsgroups: rec.games.go
From: mbgordy@athena.mit.edu (Michael B Gordy)
Subject: xigs program available - need help compiling
Organization: MIT Department of Economics
Distribution: mit
Date: Tue, 1 Sep 1992 19:27:50 GMT

Xigs is an X interface program for the IGS go server.
I have obtained version 1.0 of this program, and put it in the
source/xigs directory in the Athena "go" locker.  (If you didn't
know already, there is a locker for go software and documents that
you can attach while in Athena.)

I compiled this program under x11r5 for the DECstation 5000.
It seemed to compile OK, but it doesn't seem to be behaving itself with
telnet.  I'm far from expert in these matters, so assume I'm doing
something wrong.

Could someone help me get things set up properly?  Besides solving the
basic problem with the telnet connection, I need to establish a proper
directory structure for the manual, user default files, etc.

Thanks.

  --- Michael

Newsgroups: rec.games.go
From: hpk@prim.han.de (Holger Krekel)
Subject: IGS - Delay
Keywords: IGS
Organization: Not organized
Date: Thu, 27 Aug 92 07:26:32 GMT

As I am calling from a nice small university in germany I have some
problems with the IGS. I am playing with xigs and despite the fact
that it is awfully slow it works well. Just that my time is counted too
fast, e.g. if I make my move after say 10 seconds of thinking it takes 
20 seconds in average before the move show up. That is not too bad, as the
net our university is connected at is not too fast. But the IGS tells
me then, that I have used about TWO MINUTES. This makes it quite difficult
to play a regular game.

Any suggestions or similar effects in other countries and the corresponding
solutions would be welcome!

Thanks  
    HPK

-- 
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Holger P. Krekel        Ellernstr. 24, 3000 Han 1, vox +49 511 818993
Uni Hildesheim		hpk@prim.han.de, krekel@informatik.uni-hildesheim.de
   There are several ways of looking at it ...
Newsgroups: rec.games.go
From: kring@efes.physik.uni-kl.de (Thomas Kettenring)
Subject: Re: ...-spiel games.
Organization: FB Physik, Universitaet Kaiserslautern, Germany
Date: Tue, 25 Aug 1992 12:09:29 GMT

tob@world.std.com (Tom O Breton) writes:
>>>Kriegspiel is "invisible chess" played on 3 parallel boards and is indeed
>>>difficult.

chisnall@cosc.canterbury.ac.nz (The Technicolour Throw-up) writes:
>>There's a version of Go like this called, not surprisingly, go-spiel. I
>>imagine that there are also shogi-spiel and checkers-spiel.  

wft@math.canterbury.ac.nz (Bill Taylor) writes:
>I just had a thought:  tic-tac-toe-spiel is probably easily decidable; anyone
>know about this ?  It sounds like a Martin Gardner type speciality.
>
>To justify posting in  rec.games.go  let me ask:   has anyone here actually
>*played* a full game of go-spiel ? What is it like ? Tell us about the
>flavour of it, briefly, if you would. How does it compare with Kriegspiel ?

Could somebody please explain what this ...-spiel is all about?
Spiel is German for game, so I've no idea.  What is "invisible chess"?

I sometimes play a Go version where you need three boards, four players, and
an umpire.  It's the funniest game I ever played, but it's difficult to find
four others who want to do it...

-- 
thomas kettenring, 2 dan, kaiserslautern, germany
Definition:  Idiot-proof  -  you are idiot-proof when you NEVER flame anybody.
From: cust_ts@klaava.Helsinki.FI (Tero Sand)
Newsgroups: rec.games.go
Subject: Re: PCIGC 3.9  now available via ftp
Date: 28 Aug 92 10:30:26 GMT
Organization: University of Helsinki

In article <Btosy0.3uE@iat.holonet.net> vader@iat.holonet.net (Edward Blair) writes:
>
>    PCIGC 3.9 is now available by anonymous ftp from ftp.u.washington.edu.
>This version incorporates most of the updates to the unix igc .52 including 
>peek, who sorting, games with m6, komi and handicap displays etc. PCIGC 3.9 
                    ^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Just out of curiosity: what's the problem with this?
-- 
-Tero Sand
  EMail: cust_ts@cc.helsinki.fi     Snail mail: Auroran Sairaala os. 6-1
  (if that doesn't work, try                    Nordenskioldinkatu 20
   cust_ts@kruuna.helsinki.fi)                  00250 Helsinki 25, Finland
From: schraudo@cs.ucsd.edu (Nici Schraudolph)
Newsgroups: rec.games.go
Subject: Re: alternative goban topologies? (was: Go vs other b
Date: 3 Sep 92 05:16:56 GMT

stud05@cc4.kuleuven.ac.be (Frank en stijn) writes:

> - one could allow movement. Instead of putting a stone on the board, you
>   are allowed to move a stone to an neigbour intersection. Suddenly
>   bad shape becomes repairable, eyes can migrate and dangos can develop eyes.

That sounds really interesting, I must try it some time!

OK, here's one more crazy variant:

Fractal Go.  You start out on a small board, say 5x5 squares.  (Stones are
played into squares, not on intersections -- heresy, I know. :-)  Anyway,
the novelty is that occupied squares can also be played on.  When this
happens, the square in question is subdivided into 4 smaller squares; the
player that made this move can decide which of ths quadrants (s)he wants
to play in.  The stone that was there before then automatically moves into
the diagonally opposing quadrant (this does not count as a separate move).

In principle, this subdivision process could go on forever -- hence the
fractal nature.  If certain invariants can be shown to hold across sub-
divisions (connections remain connected, live/dead groups remain so, etc.),
however, the game will terminate by consensus as in regular Go.

Unfortunately this is impossible to play without a computer board (any
volunteers? :-), so I have no idea how it would work, if at all...

-- 
  Nicol N. Schraudolph, CSE Dept.  |
  Univ. of California, San Diego   |                                         o
  La Jolla, CA 92093-0114, U.S.A.  |                                        (\
  nici%cs@ucsd.{edu,bitnet,uucp}   |  (this mind intentionally left blank)  />
Newsgroups: rec.games.go
From: tcasey@adobe.com (Tim Casey)
Subject: Re: PCIGC 3.9 now available via ftp
Organization: Adobe Systems Incorporated, Mountain View
Date: Fri, 4 Sep 1992 20:34:30 GMT

In article <1992Aug31.100934.10306@Informatik.TU-Muenchen.DE> Oliver Schoett <schoett@informatik.tu-muenchen.de> writes:
>In article <adrian.715024957@milton> adrian@milton.u.washington.edu
>(Adrian Mariano) writes:
>
>It's a weird idea to have a rank that uses so much space.  How is
>anyone supposed to design a sensible screen layout for this?  Waste
>two columns on everyone else so that m6's rank can be displayed
>properly?  (The output of xgospel, for example, is messed up too).  I
>would simply truncate the rank after three characters.
>
>
>Oliver Schoett     Inst. f. Informatik (H2), Technische Univ. M"unchen
>                   Postfach 20 24 20,     8000 M"unchen 2,     Germany
>schoett@informatik.tu-muenchen.de    phone +49 89 2105-2399  fax -8207

I hate non-minister preachers.  Truncating is stupid because you lose info,
the '92' in this case.  Forcing ranks to be three chars is restrictive,
although it is the way it developed.  Actually ranks were never 'forced'
to be three chars.  That was just convenient at the time to show kyu, dan,
and pros.  Sigh.  I apologise for your alls' assumptions, but if you
notice, the server also tries to force ranks to three chars.

tim


Newsgroups: rec.games.go
From: s9874203@titan.ucc.umass.edu (s9874203)
Subject: Re: An Ancient Japanese Go Game (Blood Spiting Game)
Keywords: Go Noise
Organization: University of Massachusetts, Amherst
Date: Wed, 26 Aug 1992 17:44:11 GMT

In article <BtLM4z.Hvu@news.cso.uiuc.edu> jzg1795@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (Jialin Zhong ) writes:
>
>Somehow, my post did not get to some sites. This is the second try.
>Please tolerate me if you have seen this before.
>
>Several reasons for me to post this game: No. 1, zhuge 
>has posted some ancient Chinese games (Danghu series) which inspired 
>me to post a Japanese game to compare with. No. 2, it seems that most
>articles in rec.games.go these days are nor related to Go at all. We need 
>to make some noise to let people know that Go is the game here. No. 3, 
>I want to test smartgo program. I input this game by smartgo on a Macintosh. 
>You can read this game by smartgo or mgt. Try it, tell me if it works. No. 4,
>I want to use the story of this game to warn people the serious effect of
>playing Go. :-)
>

Great! This kind of "noise" are truly welcomed. I hope to see more and
more games and go problems posted here. 

bn 2k
From: Francis.Leyter@cediag.bull.fr (Francis.Leyter)
Newsgroups: rec.games.go
Subject: information about mgt
Date: 26 Aug 92 20:03:43 GMT
Distribution: rec
Organization: Cediag Bull S.A., Louveciennes, France


	Hi everyone!

	I  'm  a  new  player  of this surprising game and i want to know if I
could get back "mgt" and how to procceed ?

	thank you 
--

+-------------------------------+-----------------------------------------+
| Francis Leyter                |  EMail : 	F.Leyter@frlv.bull.fr     |
| BULL CEDIAG                   |                                         |
| 68, Route de Versailles       |    Tel :       (33 1) 39 02 59 37       | 
| F-78430 Louveciennes FRANCE   |    Fax : 	 (33 1) 39 02 47 95       |
+-------------------------------+-----------------------------------------+
From: jansteen@cwi.nl (Jan van der Steen)
Newsgroups: rec.games.go
Subject: Meijin Sen live on IGS
Keywords: Meijin, IGS
Date: 4 Sep 92 13:05:17 GMT


The sponsor Asahi Shimbun has agreed to the idea to broadcast the
game live on the IGS. Our contact person has seen the IGS and was
very enthousiastic about it. He might play Friday afternoon (USA)
using the name "taniguchi". He is 6d amateur.

Another interesting news flash is that Nagahara, 6p will come to
Amsterdam this afternoon. We will show him the IGS and ask him to
play. But we can't guarantee anything of course...

Well, that's it for the moment.

Jan van der Steen (3d)


		**************************************
		*                                    *
		*          Meijin Sen 1992           *
		*                                    *
		*   Live on the Internet Go Server   *
		*                                    *
		**************************************

			Kobayashi Koichi, Meijin
			        vs
			  Otake Hideo, 9th dan


		   9th September 08:00 - 16:00 (GMT)
		  10th September 08:00 - 16:00 (GMT)

		      Please note the following:

	   Asahi Shimbun owns all copyright of the game record
	      It is not allowed to publish the game without
	     written permission of the sponsor Asahi Shimbun


Additional info:

People who are interested but never used IGS should get the manual
from the Go archive:

	ftp : ftp.u.washington.edu
	dir : public/go/prog
	file: igs.tex.Z (LaTeX source)
	file: igs.ps.Z  (PostScript "ready to print" file)

The manual has a section on how to connect to the server,
the address, client program information, et cetera.
-- 
    -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
     Jan van der Steen                 jansteen@cwi.nl
     Centre for Mathematics and Computer Science (CWI)
     Kruislaan 413, 1098 SJ Amsterdam, The Netherlands
Newsgroups: rec.games.go
From: s9874203@titan.ucc.umass.edu (s9874203)
Subject: Re: Dang Hu Games: Game 10 ('Final')
Organization: University of Massachusetts, Amherst
Date: Thu, 27 Aug 1992 23:31:25 GMT

In article <1992Aug27.215146.14647@ists.ists.ca> sizone!justin@ee.ryerson.ca (Justin) writes:
>In article <1992Aug27.015118.9648@news.acns.nwu.edu> jzy@casbah.acns.nwu.edu (Jim Yu) writes:
>>Hi, everyone!
>>
>>Thus an idea stroke me; I would like to take this opportunity to post the
>>following question: Assume a Go game is highly asymmetric (which is the
>>case in almost all played Go games), how many outlooks a single game can
>>have?  That is, you can turn the Go board 90 degrees or 270 degrees, for
>>example, but you know that is the same game you're looking at.
>
>Well.. four right?  Or are you going to laugh at me? 
>

Is the board transparent? :-) 
Or suppose you are watching the game through a mirror,... :)

>Anyway, as an ex-psychology student (now in math) I always wondered whether
>or not this said something about the way people think about games.  I've
>noticed that if I'm watching something in a game for awhile, and then
>walk over to the other side of the board and look at it from the
>reverse direction -- it appears to be a completely different game.  If
>I stop and think about it of course, I can still see everything the same
>way -- but my mind percieves the whole game differently, and I form
>different "relationships" in my head about what is going on.
>

Yes, this even happens to some pro's I guess. I remember I read an
annotated game, in which the commentor mentioned that one player asked
to have a look at the game record. You can imagine what he would do with
the game record... he tried to look at the game from the opponent's view.

>
>Justin, 6 kyu
>sizone!justin@ee.ryerson.ca (Justin Wells)

bn 2k
Newsgroups: rec.games.go
From: os9ug@gkcl.ists.ca (OS-9 User Group)
Subject: Re: Dang Hu Games: Game 10 ('Final')
Reply-To: sizone!justin@ee.ryerson.ca (Justin)
Organization: y
Date: Thu, 27 Aug 92 21:51:46 GMT

In article <1992Aug27.015118.9648@news.acns.nwu.edu> jzy@casbah.acns.nwu.edu (Jim Yu) writes:
>Hi, everyone!
>
>Thus an idea stroke me; I would like to take this opportunity to post the
>following question: Assume a Go game is highly asymmetric (which is the
>case in almost all played Go games), how many outlooks a single game can
>have?  That is, you can turn the Go board 90 degrees or 270 degrees, for
>example, but you know that is the same game you're looking at.

Well.. four right?  Or are you going to laugh at me? 

Anyway, as an ex-psychology student (now in math) I always wondered whether
or not this said something about the way people think about games.  I've
noticed that if I'm watching something in a game for awhile, and then
walk over to the other side of the board and look at it from the
reverse direction -- it appears to be a completely different game.  If
I stop and think about it of course, I can still see everything the same
way -- but my mind percieves the whole game differently, and I form
different "relationships" in my head about what is going on.

However.. when two people sitting opposite discuss the game, they can
point at it and go "the aji here.." and "the wall there.." and (obviously)
be incredibly clear in communicating with one another -- despite the fact
that if they switched positions everything would look strange, and they
would have to spend a moment figuring it all out again.

The interesting thing I've been wondering is this -- (I haven't tried this
yet, I guess I will sooner or later) -- how hard does a game of Go become
if you switch positions with your opponant after every pair of moves?
And would it help or hinder your progress in "one perspective" Go if
you practiced playing this way?


Not that this is relevant or important in any way.  I guess I'm just
babbling out loud, and showing everyone the chaos of my mind.  Opps,
now I'm embarassed.

Justin, 6 kyu
sizone!justin@ee.ryerson.ca (Justin Wells)
From: schraudo@cs.ucsd.edu (Nici Schraudolph)
Newsgroups: rec.games.go
Subject: Re: alternative goban topologies? (was: Go vs other b
Date: 3 Sep 92 04:27:19 GMT

wft@math.canterbury.ac.nz (Bill Taylor) writes:

>Hex go, (6 liberties), is quite fun. I have played this several times. Once
>on a big board, but mostly on a 91-point board (similar to 9x9 go). It is
>a good game for relaxation between rounds at go tournaments. I warmly
>recommend it, for these occasions at least.

>Hex go is a far more strategic game than regular go. There are no tactical
>complications like cross-cuts, ko, ladders etc. But the basic ideas of
>aji, kikashi, sente, 2 eyes, connecting, etc are all present.

I've meanwhile puttered around a little with this, and it does feel like
"Go without tactics".  Since it brings out the strategic side of Go so
clearly, I wonder whether Hex-go would be a useful tool to teach Go strategy?
I could see this work especially well with children, who generally do
*not* appreciate seeing their territorial ambitions thwarted by tactical
complications...

>Tri-go, (3 liberties), I've not played (I think), but have fiddled with quite
>a bit. Just as hex go is far more strategic, tri-go is far more tactical !!
> [...]  I would like to find a real person to play these two
>games against; but it's fun to fiddle with tri-go, (playing against youself,
>if you can handle that scene). I get the feeling though, that with its massive
>tactical instability, tri-go would be a little unsatisfactory.

Yes, and since tactics are far more dependent than strategy on the topology
of the grid, I suspect that Tri-go feels far more different from regular go
than Hex-go.  Still, it would be nice to play a few games.

I am making PostScript boards for Hex and Tri in various sizes; if there's
enough interest I'll put them in Adriano's ftp archive.  They'll have a
standardized coordinate system, so e-mail games will be possible.  I'll
post when they're ready.

>Of course, quad go, (4 liberties) that we all know and love, is ideally placed
>between these two variants in terms of strategy vs tactics; hence its greatness

So how about Tetra-go (4 liberties), played in 3-D on a diamond lattice?
A real "Tetraban" may be a bit unwieldy to make (never mind play on), but
it shouldn't be too hard to implement with a computer graphics package.
Since this has the "right" number of liberties, but different dimensionality,
it would make an interesting comparison to regular Go.

-- 
  Nicol N. Schraudolph, CSE Dept.  |
  Univ. of California, San Diego   |                                         o
  La Jolla, CA 92093-0114, U.S.A.  |                                        (\
  nici%cs@ucsd.{edu,bitnet,uucp}   |  (this mind intentionally left blank)  />
From: nik@csgi38.dcs.leeds.ac.uk (Nik Silver)
Subject: Re: AI, games, go...
Organization: School of Computer Studies, University of Leeds
Distribution: scs
Date: Wed, 2 Sep 1992 11:19:34 GMT
X-Posted-From: csgi38.leeds.ac.uk
X-Posted-Through: sol.ctr.columbia.edu

In article <axjn!3+@lynx.unm.edu>, mulberry@triton.unm.edu () writes:
>Does anybody know of any good books covering the areas of  Artificial
>Intelligence and game programming?
>

A classic in the field is `Computer Gamesmanship' by David Levy (subtitled
The complete guide to creating and structuring games programs). My copy is
(c)1983 from Century Publishing, London, ISBN 0 7126 011 5 5. It covers
programming techniques (as well as some history) through a discussion of
a number of games. Chess, draughts (checkers), backgammon and poker are all
included, although go is not.

-- 
Nik Silver                          "Now, give me the gatekey."
                                      "What gatekey?"
                                    "Fezzick, tear off his arms."
                                      "Oh, you mean this gatekey."
                                                   --- from The Princess Bride
Newsgroups: rec.games.go
From: stud05@cc4.kuleuven.ac.be (Frank en stijn)
Distribution:  world
Date: Thursday, 27 Aug 1992 15:06:09 +02
Organization: K.U.Leuven - Academic Computing Center
Subject: Re: alternative goban topologies? (was: Go vs other b

Reading these posts about the complexity of go and alternative topologies,
reminded me of the following alternative rules
 - one could allow movement. Instead of putting a stone on the board, you
   are allowed to move a stone to an neigbour intersection. Suddenly
   bad shape becomes repairable, eyes can migrate and dangos can develop eyes.
 - In a previous post hex go sounded interesting (must try it), but you could
   also play go on a Penrose tiling. Makes for weird connectivity numbers.
   You realy have to work out what every shape does, since at every place the
   connectivities can be slightly different.
                                                    Ton Hospel
                                                    (AshaiRey on the server)
Newsgroups: rec.games.go
From: strick@nabilla.ee.mu.oz.au (Larry Strickland)
Subject: Hex
Organization: Electrical and Electronic - University of Melbourne 
Date: Mon, 31 Aug 1992 00:35:58 GMT

I am trying to find out what size boards are used when playing Hex.
If somebody could post me the sizes it would be very much appreciated.

I know this group is supposed to discuss go only, however, several other
people have mentioned Hex which reminded me that we used to play it way
back at school.  I have several friend who are interested in learning.

Cheers Larry
From: tcasey@adobe.com (Tim Casey)
Newsgroups: rec.games.go
Subject: Re: PCIGC 3.9 now available via ftp
Date: 4 Sep 92 20:42:42 GMT
Organization: Adobe Systems Incorporated, Mountain View

In article <37524@sdcc12.ucsd.edu> schraudo@cs.ucsd.edu (Nici Schraudolph) writes:
>
>Correct me if I'm wrong, but what do we have the "info" field for?

Originally it was for people to put their *real* name.  I think giving
people ranks as they win is a nice idea.  I like the idea of the respect
a title should carry.  That respect includes xx kyu to 9 dan pro.

tim