From: aaron@binah.cc.brandeis.edu (Scott Aaron)
Newsgroups: soc.religion.christian
Subject: Re: Paul, Could he be wrong?
Date: 14 Aug 92 07:10:53 GMT
Reply-To: aaron@binah.cc.brandeis.edu
Organization: Brandeis University

In article <Aug.13.03.17.45.1992.12996@dartagnan.rutgers.edu>, aj@hoqas2.att.com (Ahmad M Jrad) writes:
>In article <Aug.10.00.55.07.1992.6133@dartagnan.rutgers.edu>, aaron@binah.cc.brandeis.edu (Scott Aaron) writes:
>> 
>> All Paul says is that [...] We are not under Law but under grace.  
>
>Yes but the quote from Matthew suggests the opposite. It states in no
>uncertain terms that anyone who breaks the law, shall be called least
>in the kingdom of heaven. (see Mt. 5.19)

Yes, but note that they are in heaven.  Entrance into the kingdom of heaven is 
based on God's grace through faith in Jesus.  It has nothing to do with obeying
the Law.  Once we get to heaven, there are rewards, as I said in the last post.
This is what Jesus is talking about:  the one who has faith but disregards the
Law (i.e. sins) will not receive as many rewards and will therefore be the
least in heaven.

Paul never told people to disobey the Law.  He merely stated that we are not
bound to the Law anymore, but are slaves of righteousness to the Law of grace.

>Wait, now I am confused. You cite Romans to ascertain that Matthew does
>not talk about teaching men to diregard the law. 

That's not what I said.  But I was wrong anyway.

>5:19  Anyone who breaks one of the least of these commandments, and teaches
>others to do the same will be called least in the kingdom of heaven, but
>whoever practices, and teaches these commands will be called great in the
>kingdom of heaven.

Again, see above.  These people are already in heaven.

>As for Romans 6, It speaks in metaphors, something which Paul is very adept
>at doing. But I am not sure what he is saying. He claims all Christians
>are already dead and resurrected! This is clearly not the case. Paul says
>that Christians are dead and so are free from sin (Rom. 6:7), but can't
>you see that you are very much alive? This is another subject though.

I am alive in Christ.  Before, I was alive in the sinful nature.  Upon receiving
Jesus, that part of me died and I became alive in Christ (born a second time
or born again, c.f. Eph 2:1-10).  So, yes, through faith we die (symbolized by
the dunking in baptism) and are reborn new creatures (symbolized by coming up
out of the water in baptism).

>This is interesting! so I take it that you interpret the quote "least in the
>kingdom of God" to mean someone in Heaven and not in Hell. I understood it
>as someone not in heaven but in the deepest place of Hell. Actually, I think
>that Jesus also explains this in 5:20 when he says that "ye shall in no
>case enter into the kingdom of heaven" That is my understanding of being
>called least.

Look at your quote.  It says "kingdom of heaven."  It doesn't take a lot of
interpretation to see that this means heaven.

>Actually, they did follow the law, and meticulously so. But, they only
>followed the letter of the law, and did not have the required faith
>behind it. That is why Jesus upbraided them for their ways.

The Pharisees did the acts required by the Law, but their hearts were wrong.
There is a great statement in 1 Samuel (when Samuel is first at Jesse's house
looking over the sons) where the Lord says, "Man looks at outward appearance
but the Lord looks at the heart." (paraphrased from memory, I don't have a Bible
here in front of me).  The Pharisees give the appearance of righteousness, but
their hearts were hard, as Jesus says repeatedly.  In this way, they were
hypocrites.

>[I'm not sure I agree with all of Scott's comments.  I do think
>Matthew was concerned about the Law.  The question however is what
>Jesus meant by the Law.  Note that in the rest of this Sermon, Jesus
>does a good deal of reinterpretation of the Law.  I think the best
>summary is that he turns people's attention away from the letter of
>the Law to its spirit.  In effect he emphasizes doing the right thing,
>but legalistically.  I think this is quite compatible with Paul's
     ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>intent.

See above.  Do you mean NOT legalistically?

  -- Scott @Brandeis

                           I asked Jesus,
                     "How much do you love me?"
                     "This much," He answered;
                        and He stretched out
                         His arms and died.

[Yes, I mean not legalistically.  --clh]