HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: tai@ailab.ncsu.edu (Scott A Tai)
Subject: t-- Re: t// Re: REC.ORG.MENSA TODAY
Originator: tai@ailab.ncsu.edu
Reply-To: tai@ailab.ncsu.edu (Scott A Tai)
Organization: NCSU Artificial Intelligence Systems Laboratory
Date: Wed, 30 Sep 1992 22:43:46 GMT


mike_steiner@qm.claris.com (Mike Steiner) writes:
|> > This claim of joining MENSA for social reasons has always sounded hollow. 
|> > First, any area large enough for a MENSA chapter will also have any number 
|> > of other clubs, and any interest club on an intellectual subject will be 
|> > overloaded with intelligent people. Second, unless one is a gross 
|> > underachiever, anyone bright enough to qualify for MENSA will be 
|> > surrounded by intelligent people at college or at work. 
|> 
|> First, you are wrong.  

Okay, I'll bite.  How can a person's opinion be wrong?

--
Scott Tai -- tai@ailab.ncsu.edu
NCSU Artificial Intelligence Lab
Centennial Campus

Newsgroups: rec.org.mensa
From: seb@draper.com (Steve Bacher)
Subject: Re: "wrong" answers on IQ tests
Organization: Draper Laboratory
Date: Mon, 28 Sep 1992 09:12:30 GMT

>...>  The five designs are capital letters: N A V H and F.

Since every other letter has its advocate, allow me....


The correct answer is "N", because it is the only letter that looks the
same upside down but not backwards.

 - seb
From: ecsd@tfs.com (Eric C. S. Dynamic)
Newsgroups: rec.org.mensa
Subject: Re: t-- Re: t// Re: REC.ORG.MENSA TODAY
Date: 2 Oct 92 08:13:09 GMT
Organization: TRW Financial Systems

gmark@cbnewse.cb.att.com (gilbert.m.stewart) writes:

(long thing to Tai(Jr?))

Hmm. GMS, you make some valid points, but there are a few things I take
exception to. We don't know who Tai is, we don't know how old he is.

I am the last person to correct someone else for being childish, because
that's me, I'm childish. I'm 36, with the emotional psychology of someone
much younger. That turns out to be a gift, *now* that I've learned better
how to cope with it and reduce its imapct on other people. But there's
something impolite about suggesting he seek 'help' - as it there were
anything abnormal about being fucked up one way or another in the emotional
realm. *Most* of us could benefit from "seeking help"; I don't think our
society has much of a clue about how to integrate and socialize people,
and most people don't conform to society's norms. So if Tai is "acting out",
fine - let him. And let him see the reactions he gets. I did this very thing.
I went into soc.bi and immediately started a *huge* row and got bashed, and
bashed, and misunderstood, and had things "put in my mouth" and then got called
for them. I have some bitter feelings because very few people came to my side
openly in that group, and I knew that people were deliberately misunderstanding
me out of their emotional reaction to me. But by then, they'd gone mostly
deaf. So I'll go back there, but with changed attitudes and a different
approach. *Surprise*! I learned from what happened to me. Let Tai learn too.

I invited Tai to come forward to explain himself - there's no reason why he
can't talk about himself and his conditions. This will give us a clearer
picture of who he is, and how we might come to treat him. How old is he?
What does he do? Is he in school? Why is he angry with standardized tests?
What is his race and culture? Is he even a he? Is Dr. Tai really his father?
We don't know these things, and it would help.

What if by chance, Tai is a great deal younger than he appears to be?
This would explain a lot of his 'misbehavior'. Given Dr. Tai's writing,
and Tai's writings, somehow this image comes to mind. What if Tai is like
me, and is emotionally stunted? I'd like to make room to accept him around
this - out of my memory and the Golden Rule principle. What he needs to see
is that he *does* get positive feedback for things positively done - no
better way to encourage his behavior than to reward it where appropriate.

So ask him to come forward. He's brave enough to be here, bashed & flamed
as he is. I think the references to whether he has legitimate access to the
equipment he uses are off the mark. He's here, I won't question how. More
power to him. I believe in the free flow of information and free access to
means of communication, so he's using his access, so be it. His communication
is a tool which he can sharpen only by using it. Help, don't hinder, is the
byword of the Aquarian Age.

*sigh*
Ah well. Another missive from Mr. Venus/Pisces/12th-house.
-ecsd
Newsgroups: rec.org.mensa
From: ecsd@tfs.com (Eric C. S. Dynamic)
Subject: Re: t// Re: REC.ORG.MENSA TODAY
Organization: TRW Financial Systems
Date: Wed, 30 Sep 1992 11:02:44 GMT

tai@ailab.ncsu.edu (Scott A Tai) writes:
>"Eric":
>
>You're not more intelligent; you simply scored higher on a test
>whose validity is questionable.

Oooooo - my ego gets involved.

I'd be as intelligent whether I took a test to tell me so or not.
I'm glad I took the tests - it helps me understand why I am so different
from many people. Namely, when 70% of people tell me I'm incomprehensible,
I can quit going to school to take "clear expression" courses - It's Not
My Fault!! If I can't explain Plato to my 3-year-old, it's 'cause he's not
clear on the concept.

Some sort of desperate ego-driven desire to prove something - So, Tai,
are you eligible? Did you take the test and fail?

Sorry. Personal experience, in comparison with observations of others,
says I Am More Intelligent Than Average. I think Stanford-Binet gives me
IQ = 163.5 (Wechsler 141). My mind is a massively-parallel association
machine, and even worse it's equipped to watch itself in action. Very few
people can deal with my holism, and I can barely communicate it, except
to say so. I live in an insane, psychedelic world at the same time I know
about "ordinary reality" - but it takes very little energy to comprehend
the "real" = mundane world. Bills, work, sleep. I have so much time to
think about the larger context, within which this evident world is such
a small (but crucial) part.

Just don't really know what to say to you, Tai - what are you looking for?
What are you trying to prove here? What's your axe to grind?

-ecsd
Newsgroups: rec.org.mensa
From: ecsd@tfs.com (Eric C. S. Dynamic)
Subject: Re: I. M. Shirley Wright says...
Organization: TRW Financial Systems
Date: Sat, 3 Oct 1992 12:25:26 GMT

jswthomp@milton.u.washington.edu (James Thompson) writes:
>Sandy Topping <st15+@andrew.cmu.edu> writes:
>>It's simple.  Webster provides rules for the English language. ...
>>(end of reply to thread I missed)

>WRONG.  Webster does not provide the rules.  Nor do Strunk & White.  Webster
>observes the way the language is used, and documents it.  The rules are set
>by the users of the language.  That's us, by the way.  People who insist that
>it just HAS to be done just so, can't handle the reality of a living language.

This is a little chicken-and-eggish. So far as there is a *standard*, those
books document it. People on the street mutate the language, and over the
course of time later editions, new books, will document how the standard has
been modified. I am curious about what portion of the language remains
intact. I am more interested in exploring what portion of the language *must*
remain intact. Language being the linear thing it is, it's interesting to
compare text with human interaction, where a lot of the information is passed
nonverbally. Just musing.

Stolen from a unix fortunes file:

Use the apostrophe in it's proper place, and omit it where its not needed.

-ecsd
Newsgroups: rec.org.mensa
From: gmark@cbnewse.cb.att.com (gilbert.m.stewart)
Subject: Re: T// Re: T% Thought for the Day
Organization: AT&T
Date: Sat, 26 Sep 1992 18:26:17 GMT

In article <1992Sep25.221814.20823@ncsu.edu> tai@ailab.ncsu.edu (Scott A Tai) writes:
>
>gmark@cbnewse.cb.att.com (gilbert.m.stewart) writes:
>
>[...]
>|> That's me all over.
>[...] 
>|> That's okay.
>[...]
>|> Yeah, me again.
>[...]
>|> Structure of this sentence is a bit unclear.  
>[...]
>|> Well, I like to pass tests.  Guess you got me there.
>
>Thank you for that informative post.  I really learned a lot.
>
>|> BTW, why is my first name in quotes at the top?  Do you suspect me
>|> of using an alias?  That I'm not real?  That I'm a sham?  Huh?  HUH?!
>
>No, "Gilbert", we believe you're real.  Sure we do :)
>
Excellent!  And there will be a test.

Question 1:  "What???"

Question 2:  "Assuming (1), when?"

If you pass, you qualify to post on rec.org.wsfstwdnnt, (providing
you get the permission of the king).

GMS
Newsgroups: rec.org.mensa
From: ksdavis@silver.ucs.indiana.edu (Karleenus Schwartz Davis)
Subject: Don't waste letters, they have families too!
Organization: Indiana University
Date: Thu, 1 Oct 1992 20:34:56 GMT

Just a pet peeve, hopefully as useful as punctuation/quote info:

Script started on Thu Oct  1 14:57:39 1992

Hmmmm... webster irregardless
ir-re-gard-less \,ir-i-'ga^:rd-les\ adv
[prob. blend of irrespective and regardless]
nonstandard
(ca. 1912)
:REGARDLESS 


Hmmmm... webster regardless
1re-gard-less \ri-'ga^:rd-les\ adj
(1591)
:HEEDLESS, CARELESS
-- re-gard-less-ly adv
-- re-gard-less-ness n

2regardless adv
(1872)
:despite everything <went ahead with their plans regardless>


Hmmmm... exit

script done on Thu Oct  1 14:58:26 1992

Newsgroups: rec.org.mensa
From: seb@draper.com (Steve Bacher)
Subject: I. M. Shirley Wright says...
Organization: Draper Laboratory
Date: Wed, 30 Sep 1992 11:27:09 GMT

A Mr. Gilbert M. Stewart from Attcom, New Jersey, writes:

>As an aside, I've always been under that assumption that the quote
>should follow the period rather than precede it, as I see most often.
>
>        Advance."
>
>        rather than
>
>        Advance".
>
>Anyone know?

Hmm.  Now, as anyone who knows me is well aware, I am a huge pain in the
rear end when it comes to spelling, grammar and punctuation.  However,
I kind of think either way is OK.  The "usage" books probably tell you
always to put the period inside the quotes, viz.:

	TIA means "Tanks in Advance."

However, I personally find acceptable:

	TIR means "Tanks in Retreat".

on the premise that we're dealing with an isolated phrase here and not a
complete sentence.  I can't back this up, though, with an "authoritative
source".  

On the other hand, question marks and bangs follow a much more rigorous
rule:

	Does TIYP mean "Tanks in Your Pants"?

The alternative, which is so noxious that I cannot bring myself to type
it here, is never correct.  However,

	DIA means "Did I Advance?"

is correct.  Now, chew on this for a while:

	Does WIAV mean "What Is a Vance?"?

Should one put the "?" inside the "\"", $1 outside $2, or have two of the "?"?

I breathlessly await your responses.

 - imsw
Newsgroups: rec.org.mensa
Subject: Re: T/T: Statistics - rec.org.mensa most prolific posters!
From: mcbeanb@brandonu.ca
Date: 26 Sep 92 15:15:34 CST
Organization: Brandon University, Brandon, Manitoba, Canada

In article <1992Sep23.153523.26157@ncsu.edu>, tai@ailab.ncsu.edu (Scott A Tai) writes:
> 
> Heh... I'd say that the readers of rec.org.mensa are the ones who have
> undergone their own form of self-therapy.  *I* knew when I left what
> sort of lifeless, useless newsgroup this would become.  *You* didn't.

Hey, I knew that too, and I bet even Mensans knew it would happen.
All you had to do was remove all articles related to you, and you
get a pile of lifeless mush (for the most part (at least Tai
articles are mush with life)).

> Anyways, I'm back, and I'm even ready for Mike Steiner's pathological
> outbursts of hate :)

You like the hatred, don't you?

Brian McBean  -  McBeanB@BrandonU.Ca 
Newsgroups: rec.org.mensa
From: wicks@meena.cc.uregina.ca
Subject: Re: Famous Mensans
Date: 2 OCT 92 13:56:27 GMT
Organization: University of Regina, Regina, Sask., Canada

In article <quam@hana.cs.ucla.edu(David Quam) writes
<Try Isaac Asmov, who is (or used to be)International Chair of Mensa.
<If Isaac Asimov, a genious by any standard, thought it was worthwhile
<to join Mensa etc.
Isaac Asimov, if I remember right was never the Chair of International
Mensa. He was honorary vice president of Mensa.
As to other famous Mensans, how about Dr. Wubbo Ockels the Dutch
astronaut, who will be one of the speakers at the first international
Mensa meeting to be held in Flevehof Netherlands at the end of this
month.
From: mike_steiner@qm.claris.com (Mike Steiner)
Newsgroups: rec.org.mensa
Subject: Re: Doubters Of Astrology
Date: 5 Oct 92 20:08:05 GMT

In article <1992Oct5.115014.779@tfs.com>, ecsd@tfs.com (Eric C. S. Dynamic) writes:
> 
> vance@cco.caltech.edu (Vance R. Haemmerle) writes:
> >>So what is Occam's Razor, again?
> >>-ecsd
> >  Why... it's what he uses to shave in the morning of course! :-)
> >. <= microdot sig
> 
> Oh. And I was under the impression that we were NOT going to be splitting
> hares here. :)

Oh Fudd.  Whehs that wascawy wabbit?
Newsgroups: rec.org.mensa
From: tai@ailab.ncsu.edu (Scott A Tai)
Subject: t// Re: t-- Re: t// Re: REC.ORG.MENSA TODAY
Originator: tai@ailab.ncsu.edu
Reply-To: tai@ailab.ncsu.edu (Scott A Tai)
Organization: NCSU Artificial Intelligence Systems Laboratory
Date: Tue, 6 Oct 1992 03:21:08 GMT


gmark@cbnewse.cb.att.com (gilbert.m.stewart) writes:
|> Oh, don't misunderstand me, Eric.  I'm the first to admit that I
|> am sarcastic a larger amount of the time than most, but I am perfectly
|> serious about my guesses regarding Scott.  I don't like to engage in
|> any kind of debate unless I'm almost completely positive about my
|> position and the related facts.  This letter to Scott was my
|> opinion and conjecture as to what could cause someone to post in
|> the fashion he has.  I've had these suspicions and possibilities
|> rattling around for a long time, and based upon the psychiatry
|> aspects and what I've seen of other people who were mentally retarded
|> or otherwise unstable or for that matter, merely very upset about
|> something or very young, it's the suspicion I've had.

Your suspicions are wrong.

--
Scott Tai -- tai@ailab.ncsu.edu
From: mike_steiner@qm.claris.com (Mike Steiner)
Newsgroups: rec.org.mensa
Subject: Re: t// Re: REC.ORG.MENSA TODAY
Date: 30 Sep 92 18:26:22 GMT
Article-I.D.: claris.15234

In article <1992Sep30.014425.17151@ncsu.edu>, tai@ailab.ncsu.edu (Scott A Tai) writes:
> 
> 
> rhs@world.std.com (Richard H Schwartz) writes:
> |> jswthomp@milton.u.washington.edu (James Thompson) writes:
> |> 
> |> >Hold it.  Reality check time.
> |> 
> |> >According to many of the posts I've seen here, by Mensans defending the fact
> |> >that Mensa doesn't accomplish anything, Mensa IS nothing more than a social
> |> >club.  If you want to be considered significant, you have to DO something
> |> >significant.
> |> 
> |> Mensa is significant because it keeps us Mensans off the streets.
> 
> Now if only it could keep you off the net... *sigh*

The net would be better off if *you* would keep off it.
From: ecsd@tfs.com (Eric C. S. Dynamic)
Subject: Re: rec.org.high-iq.misc?
Organization: TRW Financial Systems
Date: Sun, 27 Sep 1992 12:50:20 GMT

cjdcosta@eos.ncsu.edu (CHRISTOPHER J DCOSTA) writes:

>side and operates in Brute Force mode. Check out talk.abortion, where 
>one of the sides is outnumbered 10-1 in terms of volume of posters, and 
>the majority merely shouts down the minority opinion. Maybe rationale 
>and reasoning will count with at least some people here (!)

Well, so far as abortion is concerned I hope it's 10:1 in favor of
the right to have one. Because I'm not interested in seeing it get
discussed as an abstract idea, when women are suffering . . .
in this case, count me as a partisan, DEADLY.

Yea, let's keep this place nice cozy & warm.
(I know, I know, who invited *this* asshole.
- see, Mensans are not unidimensional - or then trivial either.)

:) ecsd (:
From: moroney@ramblr.enet.dec.com
Newsgroups: rec.org.mensa
Subject: Re: t// Re: Personal to gmark@cbnewse.cb.att.com (gilbert.m.stewart)
Date: 6 Oct 92 18:37:12 GMT
Article-I.D.: engage.1992Oct6.174251.18134
Organization: Digital Equipment Corporation

In article <1992Oct6.030832.29436@ncsu.edu>, tai@ailab.ncsu.edu (Brad Regenman) writes...

>ecsd@tfs.com (Eric C. S. Dynamic) writes:
>|> I think we've been parsing this wrong. MAI = M AI, TAI = T AI.
>|> "sisters" . . .

>Ha.

Not "sisters", schizophrenia.

-Mike
Organization: Carnegie Mellon, Pittsburgh, PA
Newsgroups: rec.org.mensa
Date: Thu,  1 Oct 1992 00:45:37 -0400 
From: David O Hunt <bluelobster+@CMU.EDU>
Subject: Re: t-- Re: Circular Flames

How can I claim MENSA isn't discriminatory?  Watch me:

If you look at society in general, those most likely to know of Mensa's
existance are those who are, in general, better educated and better off
financially.  While I will readily agree that it is a shame (and disgrace)
that minorities (blacks and hispanics especially) are in the poorest
segments of our society, I cannot be personally faulted for that.

Ask a typical college person about Mensa, they may very well answer "I
don't feel like joining", or whatever.  Ask a "typical" black person in
a poor neighborhood, and chances are they'll say "Huh?"
Conclusion:  You can't join what you don't know exists.

Besides, and you've totally ignored this in the past Scott, Mensa has taken
ads out in mazagines typically read by minorities in a _deliberate attempt_
to recruit more into the organization.

The sad fact is that the tests used by Mensa are discriminatory (in general).
A high-school dropout has less chance of doing well on, say, the GRE than
a college sophomore.  Who has better access to education?

Those who are better off, of course.  If anything, Mensa is discriminatory
against those with less education who, sadly, are mostly minorities.  I'll
agree on this point.  But to claim that we are discriminatory based on
race is bullshit.


David Hunt - Graduate Slave |     My mind is my own.      | Towards both a
Mechanical Engineering      | So are my ideas & opinions. | Palestinian and
Carnegie Mellon University  | <<<Use Golden Rule v2.0>>>  | Jewish homeland!
====T=H=E=R=E===I=S===N=O===G=O=D=========T=H=E=R=E===I=S===N=O===G=O=D=====
Email:  bluelobster+@cmu.edu    Working towards my "Piled Higher and Deeper"

"Out there is a fortune waiting to be had; do you think I'd let it go you're
mad - you got another think coming!" -- Judas Priest
Newsgroups: rec.org.mensa
From: tai@ailab.ncsu.edu (Scott A Tai)
Subject: t// Re: T/ Re: T% Thought for the Day
Originator: tai@ailab.ncsu.edu
Reply-To: tai@ailab.ncsu.edu (Scott A Tai)
Organization: NCSU Artificial Intelligence Systems Laboratory
Date: Tue, 29 Sep 1992 22:25:38 GMT


rhs@world.std.com (Richard H Schwartz) writes:
|> tai@ailab.ncsu.edu (Scott A Tai) writes:
|> 
|> >People whose
|> >intelligence is expressed in other ways that the ability to pass tests
|> >need not apply -- even if accepted, 
|> 
|> Nonsense as written, and nonsense by any reasonable interpretation.
|> 
|> Some people (not you obviously) value the idea of a group that attempts
|> as best as it can to select members from the segment of society that 
|> is considered "intelligent".  That testing is an imperfect criterion for
|> such selection is unfortunate, but being willing to live with that known
|> imperfection says nothing about us as members.  Nor does it imply
|> anything about our attitude to those whom we individually recognize as 
|> intelligent despite scores that fall short of the statistical norms.

"Richard":

MENSA is simply one more dangerous way in which one group of people 
attempt to set themselves apart -- and by 'apart' one invariably finds 
'superior', since few people desire to join an organization which claims 
its members are 'inferior' -- from the rest of the populace.  Of such 
'harmless' little groups are born the divisive philosophies which feed 
nationalism, racism, and separate us from each other.

--
Scott Tai -- tai@ailab.ncsu.edu
NCSU Artificial Intelligence Lab
Centennial Campus
Newsgroups: rec.org.mensa
From: ecsd@tfs.com (Eric C. S. Dynamic)
Subject: Re: ... Thought for the Day
Organization: TRW Financial Systems
Date: Thu, 1 Oct 1992 08:11:34 GMT

seb@draper.com (Steve Bacher) writes:
>GMSsez:
>>more positive than the alternative.  Kind of like the separatism 
>>and inequality in women having separate, cleaner restrooms.
>
>How do you know women's restrooms are cleaner???
>--- -- --- ---- ------- --------- --- ----------

I know you're teasing, but anyway:

At work here e.g., there is no men's room on floor 2, just on 1 & 3.
So nobody is around & I sheepishly knock (too lazy to walk downstairs)
and enter and take a leak and the room is cleaner - almost hysterically so.

PERSONAL EXPERIENCE, is there any other kind.

The guy who does *not* intend to take a shit, does not see himself at that
moment of wondering why he has to sit on old dried urine at other times.
Half a brain says lift the seat, but nooooooooooo he can't bother with that.
Real bad for *scared to death of infection and yukkies* like I was and still
am somewhat.

Men are supposed to be, or get, used to their own crudeness. :)

So here's another one you may recognize: Dave & I come in from fixing his
car, wash up in the kitchen sink, and *shake our hands of excess water, into
the sink*, before *wiping our hands on our pants*. His Mom comes in and
says Damn! Don't you know any better than that! You've gotten water all over
my clean countertop! Go clean up your mess!

Pathetic male archetypal creatures that Dave and I are, we know the water
will evaporate, so why worry? But I thought about that, and it taught me
a lot about the difference between stereotypical men and women.

Suggest you check out water spots near the towel dispenser in the bathrooms
of both sexes, to confirm my hypothesis.
Newsgroups: rec.org.mensa
From: wiegand@rtsg.mot.com (Robert Wiegand)
Subject: Re: Doubters Of Astrology
Reply-To: motcid!wiegand@uunet.uu.net
Organization: Motorola Inc., Cellular Infrastructure Group
Distribution: "world"
Date: Mon, 28 Sep 1992 18:49:41 GMT

cjdcosta@eos.ncsu.edu (CHRISTOPHER J DCOSTA) writes:


>I think Eric's made a fair offer, and I hope someone takes him up on it.
>I used to be one of astrology's many skeptics, until I noted certain
>characteristics in people that were startlingly close to what their signs
>would predict. Call it what you may, it was sufficient evidence for me not 
>to dismiss astrology completely out of hand.  

Thats because "what their signs predict" is usually such sweeping
generalities that they could be applied to anyone.

Back in my highscool psychology class the teacher did a little experiment.
Everyone was given a copy of their horoscope and told to rate how accurate
it was. The ratings were generally very good. She then revealed that we
had all gotten exactly the same description.

I seems to work because notice the hits more than the misses, and at some
time everyone displays almost any characteristic you can name.

-- 
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Robert Wiegand - Motorola Inc.
motcid!wiegand@uunet.uu.net            uunet!motcid!wiegand
Disclamer: I didn't do it - I was somewhere else at the time.
Newsgroups: rec.org.mensa