Newsgroups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games

Here is a list of replies I got to both the question about Educational
games and sound cards (which seem to go well together).

Thanks to all why replied.  I finally got Treasure Cove by The Learning
Company (a very good source, which even has an 800 tech support number!)

See a prior post/reply on this subject which has information on
"Software Reviews on File" at my public library.

Brian

------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Brian Atkins		atkins@cnd.hp.com			(303) 229-2114
Hewlett-Packard (MS102)	3404 E. Harmony Road, Ft. Collins, CO	80525-9599


============================================================================

In comp.sys.ibm.pc.games you write:

>I am looking for a source of information on educational games for
>kids (for 386 IBM PC clones).  

>I bought Treehouse from Broderbund and am very disappointed.  But before 
>I exchange it, I'd like to bone up on the educational games market.

>1) Are there any magazines/news letters which review educational games 
>	(CU, Parents, PC rags, etc.)?

Only sporadicly, from what I have seen.  A few books on the subject
have been written recently.
B

>2) Are there any mailing lists and/or notes groups where this type of
>	information is discussed (there are a dozen or so permutations
>	of "games.ibm.pc" notes groups, and rather than try them all,
>	I'd like a pointer)?

All I have seen are a lot of posts similar to your own, mainly
in comp.sys.ibm.pc.games and in misc.kids (I think thats the group).
There doesn't seem to be enough traffic for a new group.  I think
a mailing list is a good idea -- I might have to consider doing
that.

What ages are your chidren?  I have a 5 y.o. and a 7 y.o., so I'm 
somewhat familiar with the software for those age groups.  There is
some good shareware out there as well, but you really have to pick through
all the crap to find the few gems that are available.

I did buy a piece of software recently that the kids really enjoy.  It's
called KidDesk, and is essentially a GUI designed for children.  It allows
them to launch other games from icons, and also has a calender, clock,
phone,and calculator on each kid's "desk". With a Soundblaster, the clock 
talks, and each kid can leave verbal messages to each other.  I wasn't 
really all that excited about it, but the kids really enjoy it.

The other games which have been getting a lot of use in our house are
Apogee's Word Rescue and Math Rescue.  Both are Nintendo-type games
Math Rescue is especially good - you can set the difficulty of the
math problems, and choose between number problems, word problems, 
or a comination.  My 7 year old can't get enough of it.  Both
are shareware and available by ftp at wuarchive in the
mirrors/msdos-games/Apogee directory.

There is a lot of stuff on wuarchive in the mirrors/msdos/education
directory, but like I said, a lot of it's crap.  Let me know what
ages your kid(s) are, and I might be able to recommend some.

============================================================================

Brian,
I too have treehouse, it is great with the soundblaster pro, I bought the 
speakers from Fred Meyers store and they came with built in amp, look good 
and even included the transformer, all for 24.97.  The sound blast pro I 
got from egghead for 135 and with my company discount card I got additional
10% off.  

Why? Because it opens up a whole new dimmension to the child, the good stuff
like treehouse all have soundblaster support.  I got my kids 3 packages from
"The Learning Company" 1. Treasure Cove, 2. Treasure Mountain, 3. Treasure
MathStorm.  They have excellent sound board support.  I also have Zookeeper,
Dinosaur Adventure by Knowlege Adventure, once again excellent sound support.
Reader Rabbit 2, once again, well you get the picture.  The list goes on!
Its only starting and with CD roms here, and getting cheaper, just think of
the possibilities, talking encyclopedias with real time video clips.  As I
said its really getting cool for kids.  Wished I had sound support when I
was a kid.  I guess thats why.

Hope this helps.

============================================================================

Do you have access to anonymous FTP?  There are a bunch of free and
shareware games available from simtel20.army.mil.  Below I include an
11/10 copy of 00-index.txt from the pd1:<msdos.education> directory.

I am in the same boat as you are I think.  I just bought a computer
and would like to be informed about commercial education software.
Would you be so kind as to post a summary of the responses you get
and/or forward a copy to me?

NOTE: This list was created on Tue, 10 Nov 92 02:17:07 MST.
Some files may have been added or deleted since that date.
See file PD1:<MSDOS.FILEDOCS>AAAREAD.ME for additional information.

NOTE: Type B is Binary; Type A is ASCII

Directory PD1:<MSDOS.EDUCATION>
 Filename   Type Length   Date   Description
==============================================
123TLK22.ZIP  B  177314  911116  Talking Teacher: Child learns numbers/counting
AALPHA.ZIP    B  485008  921026  Animated Alphabet for pre-school to 1st grader
ABC430.ZIP    B  192306  920920  ABC Fun Keys: Teach children ABCs, v4.30
ABCTLK25.ZIP  B  273411  920820  Teaches children to talk, read/alphabet/spell
AIRCOND.ZIP   B   51268  910802  Airconditioning repair knowledge self-test CGA
ALGEBRAX.ZIP  B   74670  891215  Professor Weissman's Algebra tutor, v1.50
AMATH1.ZIP    B  364071  921026  Animated Math: counting/addition/subtraction
AMEM10.ZIP    B  254102  921026  Animated Memory Game: aids kids' memory skills
AMYPRIME.ZIP  B   45663  870914  Educational children's games
ANIMALS.ZIP   B   28824  900120  Number games for children
ANIMSHAP.ZIP  B  294552  921026  Animated Shapes: shape & color identification
AWCMP1.ZIP    B  360428  920623  Animated Words spelling game for children, 1/2
AWCMP2.ZIP    B  346621  920623  Animated Words spelling game for children, 2/2
AZMATH1.ZIP   B  469655  920914  Pre-Calculus/Calculus math review
BABYDRAW.ZIP  B  179651  901203  Simple drawing program for children
CAPFUN.ZIP    B   31360  920314  DEMO: prog. teaches sentence capitalization
CGP20.ZIP     B   68288  911006  Children's Graphics Paint program, v2.0
CIBOX.ZIP     B   72616  870926  Good math educ. game for kids GR 3-6, C/G req.
CLOCKGAM.ZIP  B   14718  900120  Teach clock to 3-5 year old children
COLORBK.ZIP   B  121083  920427  EGA Coloring Cook for kids, w/mouse support
CORWP30.ZIP   B  109420  911119  CoreWar Pro: Redcode program vs program battle
DANFIRST.ZIP  B   79290  920825  Teachs children alphabet/music/computer keybd
DRILL.ZIP     B   12443  870531  A school teacher for your kids
DROIDS10.ZIP  B  127271  920629  Learn to program droids in BASIC. Need CGA/EGA
FUNNELS.ZIP   B   43349  891118  FUNNELS & BUCKETS arithmetic game for children
FWLAW.ZIP     B  100383  900119  Fun w/Letters & Words,educational game,age 2-6
GEO-MATH.ZIP  B  129982  900903  Math tutor for grades 1-6. Includes BASIC src
GRADES27.ZIP  B  138627  911021  Course grades/scores/GPA calc/grade prediction
GRAND.ZIP     B  152288  920914  Tutorial on Unified Field Theory
GSH200.ZIP    B  214436  920831  Gradebook program for college/university
HACKTST3.ZIP  B   27210  920406  Program to administer the infamous Hacker test
KIDSWP.ZIP    B   17575  870914  Shareware Child's Word Processor
LETTERFA.ZIP  B   36104  891118  Falling letters game, children's typing tutor
LTBLIT31.ZIP  B  119608  920512  Potato late blight management game for Windows
MARKV13.ZIP   B   57734  911025  Mark V. Shaney, text paraphraser
MATHEASY.ZIP  B  218351  920708  Math tutor, add/subtract/multiply/divide. EGA
MATHER.ZIP    B   53718  920107  Moraff's math for prizes educational game
MATHSHOP.ZIP  B   51581  870625  Math/arithmetic drills
MATHWO.ZIP    B  353233  920526  MathWorkout 1.0: Arithmetic drill for all ages
MAZE2A.ZIP    B   57225  890712  Generate/solve mazes on your PC, w/TC2.0 src
MBLDIV10.ZIP  B  101376  910802  CGA Long Division Tutor with a new 'twist'
MBMULT10.ZIP  B  136832  910802  Math education: Multiplication trainer
MCASTLE.ZIP   B  123211  910522  Math Castle: Math-based adventure game
MEDTUTOR.ZIP  B   76985  920914  Medical terminology tutorial
MEMMASTR.ZIP  B  141088  901013  Improve your memory with this educational pgm
MINICOMP.ZIP  B   46193  920914  Elementary computer math tutor for children
MOMS358.ZIP   B  121465  920121  Game teaches music/art/spelling/english/math
NTUMIN10.ZIP  B  298901  920505  Logic minimization pgm from NTU, w/TC2.0 src
ORIGAMI.ZIP   B  147597  880304  Make paper figures
OTD_11.ZIP    B  121594  911219  Tells what happened 'On This Day' in history
PCFTYP41.ZIP  B  178782  911209  PC-FASTYPE/CGA v4.1 typing tutorial (ASP)
PEN2MINO.ZIP  B   25762  901226  Game:Put 12 shapes of 5 squares into rectangle
PFIVE.ZIP     B  167268  920720  Point Five quantitative data analysis/modeling
PLDIAG11.ZIP  B  559278  920908  PD game for teaching plant disease diagnosis
PLNTGRO1.ZIP  B  511873  920921  Describing and predicting the growth of plants
PRESQUIZ.BQS  B    5376  861011  Quiz on U.S. Presidents. Written in BASIC
PWERSQR1.ZIP  B   28480  910605  Makes squares, sides multiply to same product
RECALL1.ZIP   B  154218  911209  Shareware vers of Total Recall educational pgm
ROO10.ZIP     B   89453  920207  Advanced animated LOGO-like environment (EGA)
RSISTN62.ZIP  B  127436  920512  Fungicide resistance mgmt. game for Windows
RUSEN125.ZIP  B  238237  911211  Russian-English on-line dictionary (TSR)
SGNLS10.ZIP   B  136234  920626  Illustrates signal processing concepts w/plots
SM2.ZIP       B   91354  920312  Learning tool; automated repetitave study
SM97_10X.ZIP  B   85015  920514  Philips/Fluke ScopeMeter 97 setup/data utils
SPELL110.ZIP  B  192265  900403  SPELLBOUND! - spelling tutor package
SPELLING.ZIP  B   39295  900425  Tutorial/exercises for h.s., college learners
STRING.ZIP    B   41274  870222  Math game w/VENN diagrams & sets
TANDBACK.ZIP  B  111872  920716  Increases skills of getting from here to there
TORG310.ZIP   B  172682  920421  Organic chemistry ID of unknowns simulator
TP-ET.ZIP     B  115774  911209  Thumb Print Software's Electric Typewriter
TRACER01.ZIP  B   70981  920719  Game: Draw figures in minumum # of pen traces
TSGAME12.ZIP  B   44319  890727  T.Salmi: First package of educational games
TSGMEB15.ZIP  B   80345  910811  T.Salmi: Second package of educational games
TSGMEC11.ZIP  B   82460  900818  T.Salmi: Third package of educational games
TSGMED12.ZIP  B   82644  920526  Learn national flags as a game, T.Salmi
TSGMEE10.ZIP  B   71674  901216  T.Salmi: 5th pkg of educational games, EGA req
TURING10.ZIP  B   26375  920604  Turing Machine simulator with C source
TYPDOS40.ZIP  B   56398  920530  Beginner's type-it quiz to MsDos with 66 tasks
TYPDR11.ZIP   B   17906  900912  TypeDrill: Improve typing skills, w/TP src
TYPEFAST.ZIP  B   91532  900912  TypeFast: Game stresses typing speed, w/C src
WNG.ZIP       B   87267  910523  World Name Game: educational - guess capitals
WORDGEN1.ZIP  B   98480  920430  Mega Mind Maze 1: Amazing word game for GENIUS
WORDWIZ.ZIP   B   32277  870703  Hangman-like spelling game. Simple graphics
WRDGLRY.ZIP   B  147908  900110  Match words with pictures, children ages 4-7
WRDLK11B.ZIP  B   63084  910525  WordLock: Menu-driven crossword puzzle builder

============================================================================

There are a few  good shareware educational games.
Apogee has done 1 or 2 recently
and Epic has done one. Graphics and sound are very good.

Check ftp.ulowell.edu in msdos/Games/Apogee and msdos/Games/Epic

============================================================================

It's me again.

In comp.sys.ibm.pc.soundcard you write:

>I am thinking of getting a sound card (Treehouse from Broderbund, which I
>gave to my daughter for Christmas, requires it).  I can get a Micro Concepts
>2.0+ Sound Blaster clone for $85 or $95 with speakers and a mic.  

>Is that a good deal?  Are clones really clones, or is it best to stick 
>with the name brand?  Should I get the speakers and mic for the extra $10, 
>or is it best to get them from a separate source?  Are there other cards I
>could be looking at?

I can't comment on the quality of the clones.  As far as the mic goes, 
the one you would get is probably worthless.  I bought a mic for $20,
and it records my kids ok, but my not my voice (I assume because it's
lower).  I tried a cheaper mic originally, and it wasn't sensitive
enough.  My kids had to shout to be recorded.

>I don't want to buy a sound card for one game (which has other problems).
>Besides zoom and shoot games, what are sound cards good for?  I can think
>of only two reasons I would want one: CAE of Music/Musical Instruments,
>and other general educational games (like Treehouse).

I mentioned in my previous message the use of the soundcard with KidDesk.
In some education games, all the sound card does is play music. In others,
it uses voice to aid in the teaching -- especially good at the age
when they are first starting to learn how to read.  One thing that
you want to make sure of with a sounblaster clone is that it emulates
all of a Soundblaster's functions.  I believe some do music but not
speech.  

I have found that getting a soundcard was well worth it.  My kids get a lot more enjoyment out of the computer, to the point where it's hard for me to kick
them off so I can use it.

Also, in the future, multimedia educational programs are will be more available,
which is a good reason to get a Soundblaster Pro.  A recent PC Magazine
article reviewed some of the cd-rom programs which are currently available.

The only other use of a soundcard that I have found is to entertain my
compu-phobic wife.  Whenever she starts Lotus, she hears 10 seconds of
the theme from Twilight Zone.

============================================================================

In article <179540001@stimpy.CND.HP.COM> you write:
>I am looking for a source of information on educational games for
>kids (for 386 IBM PC clones).  
>
>I bought Treehouse from Broderbund and am very disappointed.  But before 
>I exchange it, I'd like to bone up on the educational games market.
>
>1) Are there any magazines/news letters which review educational games 
>	(CU, Parents, PC rags, etc.)?
>
>2) Are there any mailing lists and/or notes groups where this type of
>	information is discussed (there are a dozen or so permutations
>	of "games.ibm.pc" notes groups, and rather than try them all,
>	I'd like a pointer)?
>
>Any info would be great!  Please respond via mail, as I don't
>normally read this group.
>
>Brian Atkins
>
>------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>Brian Atkins		atkins@cnd.hp.com			(303) 229-2114
>Hewlett-Packard (MS102)	3404 E. Harmony Road, Ft. Collins, CO	80525-9599

Um, I'm not entirely sure, but I've seen this info go through misc.kids
once or twice.

============================================================================

In article <2520030@stimpy.CND.HP.COM> you write:
>I am looking for a source of information on educational games for
>kids (for 386 IBM PC clones).  
>
>I bought Treehouse from Broderbund and am very disappointed.  But before 
>I exchange it, I'd like to bone up on the educational games market.
>
>1) Are there any magazines/news letters which review educational games 
>	(CU, Parents, PC rags, etc.)?
>

PC Magazing has an "After Hours" section but it is focused more on
general games than kids' software.  I'm not aware of anything which
more directly addresses this market.  I'm a writer and father of a
toddler and approached Parents with the idea of a "Kids and Computers"
column and was told they weren't interested.  I've decided to try it
as a newsletter and am in the process of putting one together.  If you
are interested, drop me a line with a mailing address and I'll send
you a sample when it's ready.  I'll need critiques and if you like it,
I hope you'll subscribe.  (Also, if you find that such a publication
exists (and I'd have competition) I'd appreciate hearing about it.)


>Brian Atkins
>
>------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>Brian Atkins		atkins@cnd.hp.com			(303) 229-2114
>Hewlett-Packard (MS102) 3404 E. Harmony Road, Ft. Collins, CO	80525-9599

============================================================================

>I am looking for a source of information on educational games for
>kids (for 386 IBM PC clones).  
>I bought Treehouse from Broderbund and am very disappointed.  But before 
>I exchange it, I'd like to bone up on the educational games market.
>
>1) Are there any magazines/news letters which review educational games 
>	(CU, Parents, PC rags, etc.)?

     Computer Gaming World just started a spinoff magazine called Kids &
Computers which you should be able to find on the newsstand.  If you want
to subscribe, their number is 1-800-827-4450.

>2) Are there any mailing lists and/or notes groups where this type of
>	information is discussed (there are a dozen or so permutations
>	of "games.ibm.pc" notes groups, and rather than try them all,
>	I'd like a pointer)?

     I don't know of any.  Also, I don't think they've split up the
comp.sys.ibm.pc.games group, so the traffic is still pretty heavy there.
     BTW, what do you need to know about these games?  I work with a mail-
order retailer who specializes in games and educational software.

============================================================================

If you discover anything, I would be very interested in hearing about it
(although I suspect my children are younger).  
For younger children 3-5 the following are fairly good.
Snoopy's Game Club by Accolade - concentration, matching, and jigsaw
Learn the Alphabet by Top Class - various matching games, car race, others
Memory Games by Top Class - concentration, quick identification, satelite game
Playroom by Broderbund? - nice except that it requires a key disk

ok
Learn to Count by Top Class - similar to their alphabet game but greatly lacking
Reader Rabbit I by The Learning Company -may teach reading if the kids will play

bad
Mickeys ABC - hit a letter something happens (who cares)

feel free to distribute this to anyone who is interested or post it if
their is a lot of interest
Newsgroups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games