From: c164-ad@po.berkeley.edu (Martin Guerrero)
Subject: Re: I had an abortion two days ago
Organization: University of California, at Berkeley
Date: Mon, 28 Sep 1992 22:39:41 GMT

In article <c!#ptlb.ray@netcom.com> ray@netcom.com (Ray Fischer) writes:
>c164-ad@po.berkeley.edu (Martin Guerrero) writes ...
>> regard@hpsdde.sdd.hp.com (Adrienne Regard) writes:
>
>  Who's correct?  Is a 8-week embryo a person?

An "8-week embryo" is definitely human.

BTW, just a small tidbit: the unborn feels pain at 9 weeks.

>
>>>The fact of the matter is that MANY people have some idea of how many
>>>kids they will have.  Some have that many, some have more and some have
>>>fewer.  That one fetus was aborted, while another fetus spontaneously
>>>aborted doesn't seem all that terribly tragic to me:  it's the way hte
>>>human animal works.  Fetuses *are* renewable in most cases, after all.
>>
>>Maybe it is because our perceptions of the unborn are different.  When you
>>say renewable, you mean to say Joe can easily replace Sarah.  But once 
>>Sarah is aborted, you will most likely never ever have another Sarah with
>>the same facial characteristics, hair color, innate ability, etc. etc. etc.
>>Sarah is gone forever.  When you let Joe live, great.  But Joe is definitely
>>not Sarah and never can be.  Sarah was "sacrificed" for Joe.  
>
>When a couple decides not to have sex so as to avoid an unwanted
>pregnancy, they decide that Bill/Betty will never be, and although
>they may someday concieve, the child Clara/Chuck will never be the
>same as Bill/Betty with his/her personality, facial characteristics,
>abilities, etc.  (Only one "etc" is called for.  More are redudant.)

There is a difference between that which exists and has been terminated
and that which has never existed and as a result, can never
be terminated.

Abortions deal with human life which already exists.  Gender, for
example, is already determined at conception.  Not getting pregnant
deals with human life which does not yet exist.  Prior to the existence
of a new human life (at conception), you have no idea whether you will
get a male or female, a musical genius, or a mathematical whiz.  That
new human life you may be thinking of does not exist before conception.


>>But do Sarah and Joe have any difference in value?  I don't really think
>>so.  "Choosing" one to live and one to die is certainly a terrible decision.
>
>Life & death decisions are made daily.  Most people don't notice.
>Terrible?  Nah.  No more so than is the universe.

In the near future, I shall visit you with a an uzi with a silencer, as well
as some other goodies and shoot you and kill you for arguing with me.  
Terrible?  Nah.  Life & death decisions are made daily.  Killing you is
not more terrible than is the universe:

	A man said to the universe, "Sir, I exist."  "However,"
	replied the universe, "the fact has not created in me a 
	sense of obligation."
				    -- Stephen Crane (1871-1900)

>
>>>You're kidding.  "I hate thinking that children are 'chosen'?"  Do you 
>>>prefer thinking children are accidenta
>>
>>What I mean by chosen is that first you have Sarah in the womb.  Do you
>>keep or let her live?  Then later, you have Mark.  Do you let him live
>>or abort his life?  It goes to a point where those who are living become
>>the chosen few, while those who are aborted become the "rejected."  I find
>>it terrible to have to reject our children violently via abortion.
>
>As opposed to rejecting them through the neglect of failing to concieve?
>Sheesh, what depressing alternatives you present.
>

See above comments conerning things which exist and are terminated vs.
things which do not exist and can never be terminated.

Newsgroups: talk.abortion