From: wayne@eng.umd.edu (Wayne C. McCullough)
Subject: Re: wishlist for the ultimate role-playing adventure? [poll]
Date: Mon, 28 Sep 92 17:08:29 GMT
Organization: College of Engineering, University of Maryland, College Park

In article <Bv31KH.Eu@unx.sas.com> jamie@cdevil.unx.sas.com (James Cooper) writes:
>
>In article <1992Sep23.210524.2428@javelin.sim.es.com>, tpehrson@javelin.sim.es.com (tim clinkenpeel) writes:
>>jmkaraka@eos.ncsu.edu (JOHN MARTIN KARAKASH) writes:
>> [lotsa stuff deleted]
>>
>>>      No 'classes'
>>i've seen this mentioned several times.  my question is why?  what don't you
>>like about it?  tolkeinish?  D&Dish?  face it, we all belong to some form of
>>'class' or 'profession', although from a much larger base than any game to
>>date offers.  i implemented class primarily for the combat portion of the
>>game:  each class may obtain specialized combat maneuvers.  makes for
>>interesting conflicts and compromises.
>
>Yes, but in a lot of cases, it is also severely limiting.  A Skill based
>system is much more flexible, and you still have to make compromises
>
>("Hm... do I want to pick up that Magic Missile spell now, or increase
>  my skill with swords?  Which will save my hide the quickest/most often
>  in the near future?")
>
>The skiils one chooses to concentrate on will generally place them in a
>certain profession, *not* the other way around (in Life as well as most
>RPGs).

I think class based is better when you control multiple players, or you
have several NPC's in your party.  This way you have speciallizeation.

In the case that it is essentially one player against the world, skill
based system is better, so that you can gain a skill if you discover you
don't have it and need it.  Otherwise you may be hopelessly lost, or just
really bored trying to find someone that can help you.

>>p.s. to all: combat is presently move-by-move (with an added twist i'll not
>>divulge), not realtime.  i prefer the latter and it will eventually become
>>that way (the question is before or after release 1).  i like the adrenaline
>>associated with real-time arcade action.  heightened realism as well.

I disagree with you.  Real time combat in RPG's I think is one of the
more stupid things I have ever come across in gaming.  In games like
Ultima Underworld, it's Ok, at best, but the interface is just too
clumsy to get a good aproximation of real combat.  I had the same
problem in U7.  You just did not have enough controll to do things
right.

In a real combat enviornment, you would be surprised at how much control
you have, how much you see, and how much you don't see.

For example, friendly kills are a possibility, esp. when the killer and killie
have not been fighting together for long, but otherwise it is not really
a problem.  Also if all your side or their side is easily distinquishable,
it is not at all a problem.  However, if you have two people fighting on
the same side who are not used to each other, they could actually face off,
and fight each other.

Also, most RPG's do not take into proper acount the value of hitting someone
from behind.  any semi-decent fighter will notice you if you try and sneak
around, but on the occasion that they don't (caught up in fighting, or
you were hiding when the battle started, etc),  a fighter will devastate
the ranks.  Real time just can't really take into acount for this.  You
don't have enough controll, enough input to do it naturally  (ie, if you
don't notice the other player on the screen and turn around fast enough),
instead of artificially (you assign a chance that the creature isn't noticed,
and another chance that it does sufficiant dammage, etc, etc.)

I realize I have gotten a little off base with this, but in summary, the
interface is, and will be for a long time, much too clumsy to do real time
combat properly. for the mean time, please let our minds do the fighting,
not our reflexes.

(BTW-- Yes, I really do like the U6 combat system, and hate the U7 combat
system)

On a differant topic, if this game is intended to be shareware, one thing
you may want to look into is giving people the option to write and link
there own NPC programs.  Hopefully people will come up with smarter
NPC's, and just make the game better.

Finally, after it has been out for a while, give us the option to make
our own worlds.  This will add a lot of life to the game.

W

Newsgroups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games