HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: shell@drycas.club.cc.cmu.edu
Newsgroups: rec.railroad
Subject: Re: LIRR joke
Date: 9 Oct 92 01:11:52 GMT
Organization: Carnegie Mellon Computer Club

In article <1992Oct7.153456.23357@s1.gov>, lip@s1.gov (Loren I. Petrich) writes:
> 	I wonder what shape the LIRR is in now. I presume that it has
> improved at least somewhat since then. I've seen news in a railfan
> magazine that the electrification on the Ronkonkoma line has been
> extended out to Rkk itself (or something like that), even though Rkk
> is not at the end of the Rkk line. This, and the opening of a tunnel
> to Penn Station, would suggest some kind of commitment to improving
> LIRR service.
> 
The electrification of the Ronkonkoma line out to Ronkonkoma
shaved about 1/2 hour off that trip.  The LIRR's overall on time
performance has been running at around 90%, which, while not
outstanding, is not bad considering the size of the system
and the number of trains run.

What did you mean about opening a tunnel to Penn Station?
The four Amtrak tunnels from Long Island to Penn Station have been around
for quite some time.  The LIRR recently completed switching
improvements that allow them to send trains in either
direction through any one of the tunnels.  Perhaps this is what
you're refering to?  Or are you refering to the street-level entrance
to the LIRR concourse of Penn Station that's being built as part of
a major renovation of that station?
--
Sheldon Luberoff
shell@drycas.club.cc.cmu.edu
From: ns@csd.cri.dk (Nick Sandru)
Newsgroups: rec.railroad
Subject: Re: Europe trip report and signals, part 2
Keywords: SJ, NSB, DSB, signals
Date: 14 Oct 92 12:41:32 GMT
Organization: Computer Resources International A/S

I added to the SJ signal aspects described by jps@dworkin.wustl.edu
(James Sterbenz) the approach aspects shown by dwarf signals. I have
also made a correction: three green lights on a home signal mean
'short block' and not 'slow'.


r  = stop      w  = clear      w  = slow clear              (dwarf)
w w            w               w
               g             g

               w  = approach   w  = slow approach           (dwarf)
               w               w
               g*            g*

R  = stop      G  = clear       G = slow (+)                (home)
                                G

                                G = slow, short block       (home)
                                G
                                G

G* = approach  W* = clear       G* = approach slow          (distant)
                                G*

G  = approach  G  = clear       G  = approach slow          (home+distant)
G*             W*               G*                     
                                G*                      

(+) The next signal may display stop, slow or clear.

Long Haired Nick

-- 
Nick Sandru - System administrator   | e-mail: ns@csd.cri.dk         (office)
Columbus Space Station SDE Project   |         ns@sandes.cri.dk      (home)
Computer Resources International A/S | phone:  +45 45 82 21 00 x2036 (office)
Bregnerodvej 144                     |         +45 47 98 06 27       (home)
DK-3460 Birkerod, Denmark            | fax:    +45 45 82 17 11
From: grr@cbmvax.commodore.com (George Robbins)
Newsgroups: rec.railroad
Subject: Re: Diesel vs. Electric Locomotive Maintenance
Date: 10 Oct 92 18:55:47 GMT
Reply-To: grr@cbmvax.commodore.com (George Robbins)
Organization: Commodore, West Chester, PA

In article <BvsIDw.KGM@access.digex.com> terryfry@access.digex.com (Terry Fry) writes:
> In article <26692@dog.ee.lbl.gov> wbrown@bevsun.bev.lbl.gov (Bill Brown) writes:
> >In article <1992Oct7.181819.14844@Princeton.EDU> jsm@phoenix.Princeton.EDU (John Scott McCauley Jr.) writes:
> >	(stuff deleted)
> >>3) The GG1 lasted decades and probably would still be used someplace
> >>   today if it weren't for the PCB problem in the transformers.
> >	(more stuff deleted)
> >
> >I seem to recall reading that the cast steel underframes were failing
> >due to metal fatigue.  Many had been repaired by welding, but that sort
> >of thing has its limits.
> 
> I think also that there was a big push to move to 60hz power, removing
> the expensive converters required on the line.  The GG1's
> were not rectifiers, I am assuming they were AC wired?

They were straight AC "wired" as you put it.  Conversion to 60 Hz would
have required replacing the main transformer and related components with
60 Hz rated gear and inserting rectifiers in the traction motor circuits,
since the interpole "DC" motors that work effectively on 25Hz AC can't
be made to work well at 60 Hz.  Obviously, this amount of re-engineering
on "worn out" 40-50 year old equipment wasn't attractive, assuming that
space and other constraints would have allowed - any electric locomotive
more complicated that the 600 volt "trolley" motors are typically packed
full already.

-- 
George Robbins - now working for,     work:   to be avoided at all costs...
but no way officially representing:   uucp:   {uunet|pyramid|rutgers}!cbmvax!grr
Commodore, Engineering Department     domain: grr@cbmvax.commodore.com
From: jmb@ukc.ac.uk (Mike Bremner)
Newsgroups: rec.railroad
Subject: Tramway/trolley gauges
Date: 11 Oct 92 16:23:09 GMT
Organization: Institute of Mathematics and Statistics, University of Kent

Funny: all this talk of non-standard gauges to prevent railway/railroad
access.  In the UK it appears that we had a non-standard gauge to *permit*
this.

From "Buses, Trolleys and Trams" by C.S. Dunbar (London, 1967: Paul Hamlyn)
(A "coffee-table" book, but one which, I think, gets its facts right):

    Growing traffic between the mainland and the Isle of Wight prompted
  the first Act of Parliament for a public street tramway in the United
  Kingdom.  The Landport and Southsea Tramway Company was authorized in
  1863 to lay a line from Portsmouth Town Station to Clarence Pier, a
  distance of a little over a mile.  It was opened in 1865 with grooved
  rails and a gauge of 4ft. 7 3/4in., this being chosen so that ordinary
  railway wagons and carriages could use it.  Thought there is no
  evidence that in fact they did so, this non-standard measurement
  remained Portsmouth's choice until the end of tramway operations in
  1936.

And, in "The Last Tram" by C.A.Oakley (published by Glasgow Corporation
in 1962 to mark the end of tramway operations there) there's a
photograph of a locomotive emerging from a shipyard to run along the
street on the tramlines.  The caption accompanying the photograph
again mentions the use of 4ft. 7 3/4in. gauge "to enable railway
rolling stock to run on the flanges of their wheels".
From: R.Todd.Minsk@dartmouth.edu (R. Todd Minsk)
Newsgroups: rec.railroad
Subject: Re: Empire Builder Lost? (was: LIRR Joke)
Date: 8 Oct 92 23:41:14 GMT
Organization: Dartmouth College, Hanover, NH
X-Posted-From: InterNews1.0a5@newshost.dartmouth.edu

In article <16137@mindlink.bc.ca>
Steve_Hooper@mindlink.bc.ca (Steve Hooper) writes:

> > schumann@msus1.msus.edu writes:
> >
> > So, Steve, while it IS hard to believe, it apparently really did
> > happen.  I never did hear a good explanation for why the crew was not
> > familiar enough with the route to notice the switch was lined the
> > wrong way.
> 
> 
> If it DID happen, it sure would be a scary thing!  I mean, out on a strange
> piece of track with no clearance etc..

About three years ago, riding the northbound Amtrak "Montrealer" I
awoke in the middle of the night to realize the train had stopped in
the vicinity of Norwich Connecticut, which is not a station stop.  We
sat there for perhaps 15 minutes and then, to my amazement, backed up
for some five miles and stopped with the rear end just inside the
Norwich Tunnel. (I had walked to the rear vestibule, finding no train
crew there.)  There we sat again for several minutes before proceeding
north again, rather behind schedule.  As far as I could tell, we were
not clearing the line for other movements.

This is all manual block railroad.  I never heard an explanation (most
of the passengers were asleep, so there was no great concern from other
people) and decided it would be unwise to hunt up the crew to ask.  The
most likely suggestion that I can come up with is that the engine crew
had overrun the blocks we were authorized to occupy, and had to reverse
into "safe" territory before being issued a new clearance.

On a similar topic, during Guilford's (Boston & Maine, Springfield
Terminal, etc.) labor troubles, non-union train crews were hired (from
short line railroads, steel mills, etc.) to substitute for strikers.  I
heard several tales of crews trying to work places were none of them
had ever been, even at night.  I suppose had there been passenger
trains involved, the railroad would have been much more particular, but
one wonders.

Todd Minsk, ferro-bibliographer
From: gurd@next04wor.wam.umd.edu (Daffy Duck)
Newsgroups: rec.railroad
Subject: Re: Addendum to DC Train Watching
Date: 13 Oct 92 22:09:45 GMT
Reply-To: gurd@wam.umd.edu
Distribution: na

Charley Wingate writes
> There is a NEW place to watch trains from in DC.  Take the metro to  
L'Enfant
> Plaza and head toward 7th St. SW, where the railroad  
grade/bridge/viaduct
> should be visible directly to the north.  Get on the right (east) side  
of
> the street and go under the bridge, and the turn right immediately.   
This

If you are taking the Metro (L'EnFant plaza is served by teh Blue, Orange,  
Green, and Yellow lines), you can exit from the 7th. Street Exit (marked  
Smithsonian Museums on the signs pointing to it I believe) which is about  
50 feet from the 7th. Street entrance to the VRE station.  By the way, VRE  
is doing quite well from newspaper reports DESPITE the recession and it's  
rather high fares.  A small fare increase (3%) and an increase in the  
number of trains offered is planned in the near future, subject to board  
approval.
From: salfi@53iss6.Waterloo.NCR.COM (Mike Salfi)
Newsgroups: rec.railroad
Subject: The Building of the CPR
Keywords: CPR, film
Date: 13 Oct 92 12:19:19 GMT
Distribution: na
Organization: Imaging Systems Division, NCR Corp, Waterloo, Ont., CANADA

For your information and if you get CBC broadcasts from your location, CBC
TV is re-running Pierre Burton's "The National Dream". Parts 1 and 2
aired on Sunday night, part 3 will be on TV this coming Thursday at 8 PM,
and the remainder of the 8 part series will probably be every Thursday, but
I'm not certain so it would be best to check your TV listings.
This 8 part miniseries concerns the building of the CPR from its inception
to the driving of the last spike (circa 1867 to 187?).  The steam
locomotive used is #136, a 4-4-0 in various disguises.
This steam locomotive is alive and well today and still powering steam
fan trips by the South Simcoe Railway in Tottenham Ontario.

Mike Salfi
From: chalup@presto.ig.com (Michael Chalup)
Newsgroups: rec.railroad
Subject: Re: toronto subway gauge
Date: 14 Oct 92 06:01:54 GMT
Distribution: rec
Organization: IntelliGenetics, Inc., Mountain View, California USA

In article <1992Oct7.121726.19815@murdoch.acc.Virginia.EDU> ggg9y@poe.acc.Virginia.EDU (Garth G. Groff) writes:
>ODD GUAGE LINES
>
>I wasn't aware the Toronto surface lines were wide guage.
>Didn't many of the Toronto cars serve under lease on 
>San Francisco's MUNI in the 1970s?  If so, they would 
>have been narrowed at great cost and later widened again
>when they returned to Toronto.  
>


I believe the PCC cars may have been standard guaged before leaving
Toronto.  Actually, changing guage on PCC B2 trucks is supposedly not
too horendous; the original design was configured to accomodate a
relatively wide range (narrow thru broad gauge).

As far as the cars going back to Toronto, I'm afraid it was a one way
trip.  After MUNI got done using them in the late 1970's, they were
either scrapped or sent to museum (one to Illinois Railway Museum in
Union , the other to the Western Railway Museum in Rio Vista
Junction, CA).  I'm familiar with the WRM car; 'worn-out' would be an
accurate description.  I should check Anthony Perles book 'Inside
Muni' but I think that TTC may have made an outright sale to MUNI of
the cars, not a lease.


>~S
>--
>Garth (Haridas) Groff
>"Not yet famous author"
>ggg9y@poe.acc.virginia.EDU         Chant "Govinda Bohlo Hare"


			Happy (Electric) Railroading,
			Mike Chalup
			Internet:  chalup@presto.ig.com

Newsgroups: rec.railroad
From: pgifford@reis36.alleg.edu (Pete Gifford)
Subject: Unusual Conrail Cars
Organization: Allegheny College
Date: Tue, 13 Oct 1992 13:50:53 GMT

While leaving Reading, PA this past weekend I saw a Conrail train with
several unusual cars.  I was wondering if anyone could identify them
for me.  They were brown with white Conrail logo, about the length and
height of a standard coal car or maybe a bit higher, with the same side  
profile.  They were totally covered and had a profile from the front  
something like this:
      ____
     /    \
    |      |
    |______|       (Lousy picture)
     wheels

Any ideas what it might be or what it might be hauling?
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
Pete Gifford
Systems Manager           Bitet: pgifford@allegvm
Allegheny College      Internet: pgifford@alleg.edu
Meadville, PA 16335       Phone: (814) 332-2755

Newsgroups: rec.railroad
From: pierson@cimcad.enet.dec.com (Dave Pierson)
Subject: Re: toronto subway gauge
Organization: Digital Equipment Corporation
Distribution: rec
Date: Wed, 7 Oct 1992 13:00:47 GMT

In article <19926.4231.10674@dosgate>, "bill daddis" <bill.daddis@canrem.com>
writes...

>The fascinating things you learn on this net!  I never suspected that
>the Toronto subway and tram systems used a non-standard gauge (4 ft,
>10-7/8 ins) as noted in follow-up to "Garbage Trains, (etc.)" posting.
>Whatever made the builders pick **that** gauge? It's so close to the
>standard 4'8-12'' that I can't see any obvious advantage in being
>different.  It'd certainly make it harder to sell off obsolete
>equipment.

>Does anyone know more about this?

	A usual reason for odd gauges in "transit" work was to make sure that
	freight/main line passenger trains COULD NOT use the same trackage.
	There wasa considerable amount of paranoia on thius matter early on.
	Not such an issue on subways, however where they interconnected to
	surface trackage, the NIMBY (ancestors of, actually) folk wanted to
	be sure that the trackage was ONLY used for its announced purpose.

	A specific example where this is the case is Philadelphia, PA in the US.
	The 4' 10 was close enough to not impose horrendous tooling costs on
	manufacturers.  I suspect planners/designers did not plan for "how much
	can we get for used equipment...

thanks
dave pierson			|the facts, as accurately as i can manage,
Digital Equipment Corporation	|the opinions, my own.
200 Forest St			|I am the NRA.
Marlboro, Mass		01752	pierson@cimnet.enet.dec.com
"He has read everything, and, to his credit, written nothing."  A J Raffles
Organization: Freshman, CIT general, Carnegie Mellon, Pittsburgh, PA
Newsgroups: rec.railroad
Date: Thu,  8 Oct 1992 21:00:27 -0400 
From: Jason Paul Togyer <jt3y+@andrew.cmu.edu>
Subject: Trolley Gauges (Was: Re: Toronto Subway Gauge)

Sorry to post twice to this BBoard in one day, but...
(Diarrhea of the keyboard, constipation of the brain) 8)

Anyway, Mark Brader, Toronto, Canada, writes:


>Pittsburgh also has a nonstandard streetcar gauge; someone might like to
>comment on how many of the above issues also exist there.
-
To the best of my admittedly limited knowledge, the reason that
Pittsburgh does have its odd streetcar track gauge (5'2 l/2")  is  one
of the following (depending upon who you talk to):

1) Indeed, early city fathers did not want those infernal "steam roads"
buying out the local traction company and using the street running
franchise to operate freight trains, or

2) The Pennsylvania Railroad, which held a virtual lock on all
intra-state freight traffic, forced local civic leaders to make the
gauge wider.  The P Co. was afraid that a syndicate, like Widener-Elkins
in Ohio, would buy all of the Pa. trolley lines and attempt to form a
competing line across the state.   This would explain why most
Pennsylvania lines were built to this gauge and why 5'2 l/2" was called
Pennsylvania Broad Gauge.  Recall, however, that New Orleans was built
to this gauge.

I tend to put more stock in the first theory, even though any good
Pittsburgh & Lake Erie Fan knows that the Pennsy was EVIL!!!  }8) 

Has anyone else heard a better theory?  I'll admit you could write my
knowledge of this subject on the head of a pin and still have room for
the Star Spangled Banner.

--Jason Togyer
     Carnegie Tech
     Pittsburgh, Penn.

**"The moral of the story is: don't count your boobies before they've hatched."
       --James Thurber
            _The _Unicorn_in_the_Garden_
From: wbrill@hpfcso.FC.HP.COM (Warren Brill)
Date: Fri, 9 Oct 1992 13:59:48 GMT
Subject: Re: LIRR joke
Organization: Hewlett-Packard, Fort Collins, CO, USA
Newsgroups: rec.railroad

In rec.railroad, lip@s1.gov (Loren I. Petrich) writes:

> 
> 	Carl Sagan, in the _Broca's Brain_ chapter "Night-Walkers and
> Mystery-Mongers", tells us how he once asked a question about
> mysterious disappearances on the Dick Cavett show. He asked why is it
> that it is ships and airplanes that disappear, and not trains. To
> which Dick Cavett responded that "I can see you haven't waited for the
> Long Island Rail Road..."
> 
> 	Is that a fair assessment of the LIRR?
> 
> 	[This comment was probably made in the mid-1970's]
> 
> 	Carl Sagan's point was that it is easy for a ship or an
> airplane to "disappear" in the middle of an ocean, while it is much
> harder for a train to become misplaced.
> 
****************Except in Clive Cussler's "Night Probe!"...I won't go into any
details, just in case some of you Netlanders still read books :-)

 
oooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo
o                                          i---i_________________      o
o    Warren T. Brill, a.k.a.          *----|[|]|  #### #### #### |*    o
o    wbrill@hpxxx.fc.hp.com         i_|___/|___|\________________|_i   o
o    wbrill@hpfcso.fc.hp.com       =++()=()=() `========' ()=()=()++=  o
o                                  =================================== o
oooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo
Newsgroups: rec.railroad
Newsgroups: rec.railroad



	Sorry no help but I do have a technical quuestion:
	When they opened up the boiler they had to break off
the bolts, so how do they plan to secure the front hatch again,
ie are these studs or can new studs be inserted?

	just wondering?
	Oh yeah I remember walking thru it when I was a kid, and it
was pretty well stripped, Do you have any of the parts or are you
scounging to replace them.

	chris wiles
:wq
From: CZ94@MUSICA.MCGILL.CA (CZ94000)
Newsgroups: rec.railroad
Subject: Re: Diesel vs. Electric Locomotive Maintenance
Date: 8 Oct 92 14:37:12 GMT
Organization: McGill University

In article <26692@dog.ee.lbl.gov> wbrown@bevsun.bev.lbl.gov (Bill Brown) writes:
>In article <1992Oct7.181819.14844@Princeton.EDU> jsm@phoenix.Princeton.EDU (John Scott McCauley Jr.) writes:
>
>>3) The GG1 lasted decades and probably would still be used someplace
>>   today if it weren't for the PCB problem in the transformers.
>
>I seem to recall reading that the cast steel underframes were failing
>due to metal fatigue.  Many had been repaired by welding, but that sort
>of thing has its limits.
>
CN is still using electric locomotives even older than the GG1s for
its Montreal to Deux-Montagnes commuter service.  There are 6
General Electric boxcabs, built 1914-17, and 5 English Electric
boxcabs, built 1924-26.  The English Electrics were retired from
service at the end of last year because of cracks in the underframes,
but they were repaired and returned to service this summer.

Tom Box
CZ94@MUSICA.MCGILL.CA
From: jimkirk@news.uwyo.edu
Newsgroups: rec.railroad
Subject: RFD: rec.crafts.metalworking
Date: 14 Oct 92 16:15:35 MST
Distribution: world
Organization: University of Wyoming - Laramie, WY

X-NEWS: corral news.announce.newgroups: 641
Relay-Version: VMS News - V6.0-3 14/03/90 VAX/VMS V5.5; site news.uwyo.edu
From: gurd@next04wor.wam.umd.edu (Daffy Duck)
Newsgroups: rec.railroad
Subject: Michigan applies for High Speed...
Date: 14 Oct 92 01:56:00 GMT
Reply-To: gurd@wam.umd.edu

The following article also appeared in the October 5, 1992 edition of  
Passenger Transport.  Copyright, 1992 American Public Transit Association.

"Michigan Files for High Speed Rail Corridor Designation"

   DEARBORN, MICH. -- High speed rail travel in Michigan received a hefty  
boost recently when the Michigan DOT filed an application with the U.S.  
DOT requesting the rail corridor between Detroit and Michigan be  
designated as a high speed rail corridor.  It is the first step in the  
eventual development of trains going in excess of 150mph along the route.
   The action stems from a provision in the Intermodal Surface  
Transportation Efficiency Act of 1991 which authorizes up to $5 million  
per year for six years to five designated corridors. Funds may be used for  
improvements such as rail/highway crossing safety upgrading, track, and  
signalling to allow Amtrak to increase train speeds.
   State Transportation Director Patrick Nowak and U.S. Rep. John Dingell  
(D-Mich.) announced the filings at a news conference at the Dearborn  
Amtrak station.
   Dingell, chairman of the House Energy and Commerce Committee, authored  
the provision in the ISTEA bill to establish up to five high-speed rail  
corridors.
   "Michigan's congressional delegation and the state Department of  
Transportation have worked closely with my office on this project.  This  
investment will produce a substantial divident for Michigan," said Gov.  
Engler (R).
   "If selected as a high speed corridor, Michigan will continue to be in  
the vanguard of rail transportation," said Rep. Dingell.  "It will be a  
major advance for transportation in Michigan.
   "Ridership on the Detroit-Chicago route has seen tremendous growth as  
more people turn to rail as a preferred means of transportation.  Not only  
will this boost the state economy, but it will also help reduce congestion  
on highways and airports."
    Michigan has invested more than $135 million in improvements along the  
Detroit-Chicago corridor, nearly all in grade crossings, equipment,  
passing track, and terminal upgrading through the combined effors of  
Michigan DOT, Conrail, and Amtrak.
   If the route is approved as a high-speed rail corridor, Michigan DOT,  
working with the U.S. DOT, Amtrak, and Conrail, will make required  
improvements to raise train speed limits in increments over various  
sections.  The current maximum spped along the Detroit-Chicago route is  
79mph.
   Amtrak serves about 400,000 Michigan travelers in 13 communities  
annually.
From: santafe@watnxt07.ucr.edu (michael a parisi)
Newsgroups: rec.railroad
Subject: THE CALIFORNIA CARS
Date: 10 Oct 92 00:18:50 GMT


I've read in several articles that the new California Cars
will be designed for use in both intercity and commuter routes.
Will Caltrans be the sole owner of these cars, and if so, will
they be painted with just the Caltrans insignia so that they can
"float" around between Amtrak and commuter agencies without having
to be painted in each operators colors?