HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: dyer@spdcc.com (Steve Dyer)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: Year of the Queer
Date: 13 Jan 93 04:28:24 GMT
Article-I.D.: spdcc.1993Jan13.042824.20121
Organization: S.P. Dyer Computer Consulting, Cambridge MA

In article <1993Jan13.041859.6287@tc.cornell.edu> shore@dinah.tc.cornell.edu (Melinda Shore) writes:
>My interest in turning Stonewall into a religious event
>is negligible, but that business about ecclesiastical
>sanctions sounds fun.  What do we do [...]- Tell me more.

Well, the YHWH's Witness, Owen Rowley, reintroduced us to that
notable practice of "shunning". :-)

-- 
Steve Dyer
dyer@ursa-major.spdcc.com aka {ima,harvard,rayssd,linus,m2c}!spdcc!dyer
From: spp@zabriskie.berkeley.edu (Steve Pope)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: Abolish Marriage
Date: 4 Jan 1993 08:28:26 GMT
Organization: U.C. Berkeley -- ERL
NNTP-Posting-Host: zion.berkeley.edu


(attribution lost) says:

> Here's an idea that should do a neat end-run around the whole
> gay-marriage issue. Why not have the government cease to
> recognize marriage of any sort?

Yes, this would be the right thing to do.

In particular, they oughta eliminate "married filing jointly" 
for income taxes.  Everybody ought to file as a single taxpayer.
That is the only fair approach.

Once that is done, the institution of marriage could be
replaced with various types of partnership contracts.

Steve
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: glp@fig.citib.com (Greg Parkinson)
Subject: Cremes and Emollients (was Re: Changing standards of female beauty)
Originator: glp@merlin
Organization: Citibank IBISM
Date: Tue, 5 Jan 1993 15:28:29 GMT


In article <1993Jan4.174244.16079@spdcc.com>, dyer@spdcc.com (Steve Dyer) writes:

|> This was in the summer, in 95+ degree heat and 90% humidity, and the
|> man was not suffering from ichthyosis.  (And for the curious, Greg, who
|> can use as much Oil of Olay as he wants without changing my appreciation
|> of him, was not my houseguest at this time.)

My friend Raul had a boyfriend who used Oil of Olay
and Raul referred to it as "Oil of No-Lay" because
the smell of it would cause him to detumesce.

And of course, all this changes in the Summer.
Astringents and powders and long, cool showers.

-- 
Greg Parkinson                  Phone: 212-657-7814  Fax: 212-825-8607
Citibank,111 Wall Street        E-Mail: glp@fig.citib.com
New York, New York  10043
The opinions expressed are my own and not those of the big 'ol bank.
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: coren@speed.osf.org (Robert Coren)
Subject: Wedding bands (was: Should I be doing this?)
Organization: Open Software Foundation
Date: Mon, 11 Jan 1993 21:27:22 GMT

In article <C0p43o.5CM@panix.com>, mara@panix.com (Mara Chibnik) writes:
> 
> Even my relatives know who my friends are.  ;-)  (Which reminds me
> that my sister wants to know whether there is any tradition among
> gay men to wear a wedding band on the right hand; I said I didn't
> know of any such but that I'd ask.)

I don't know whether there's a "tradition" but I happened to notice
during my New Years weekend in Provincetown that quite a few of the
obviously coupled men staying at the guesthouse where we were had
wedding-band-like objects on their right hands.

But conventions vary from place to place. I have several male European
colleagues who I have every reason to believe are married to women;
these men also wear wedding-band-like objects on their right hands.
From: waveland@carson.u.washington.edu (Eric Holeman)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: Provo Utah and area...
Date: 5 Jan 1993 20:44:55 GMT
Organization: University of Washington, Seattle
NNTP-Posting-Host: carson.u.washington.edu
Keywords: information, provo, utah

In article <26@parnasus.dell.com> mmaster@parnasus.dell.com
  (Michael Masterson) writes:

>being sent out on a business trip to Provo, UT, one has to wonder what
>are the "don't miss" things there...

The flight home, for one.  

Other than that, if it's in the next few weeks, you may catch a bit of 
the Sundance Film Festival.  Most of the showings are usually in 
Park City and Salt Lake, but there may be a bit of activity around
Sundance proper, which isn't far from Provo.  

If you don't already ski, consider a day on the slopes at any of the
nearby resorts.  Even if you don't ski, it would be worth a drive up one
of the canyons if the weather cooperates.  A beginner package shouldn't be
much more than $20 or $30.  

The Salt Lake Roasting Co. has excellent coffee, and Brackman Bros.
Bagels are good too.  

Not much in nightlife, but there was a friendly leatherish bar near the 
downtown SLC Super 8 motel, and a passable dancing spot whose name eludes
me.  

Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: gsmith@lauren.iwr.uni-heidelberg.de (Gene W. Smith)
Subject: Re: Arne Adolphson, Mormon At Large
Organization: IWR, University of Heidelberg, Germany
Date: Tue, 12 Jan 93 12:35:41 GMT

In article <1ishnaINNckn@mizar.usc.edu> adolphso@mizar.usc.edu
(adolphson) writes:

>*Mormon* at large?  Heavens.

"Moron" did not seem very apt, so I changed it.

>I take it that Mikhail finally honored his debt?

The Deadbeat?  The Deadbeat is still claiming to have an actual
*argument*, and name-dropping as usual.

It is too bad there isn't a kind of museum or zoo for completely
preposterous "arguments", though.  I would donate his.  I don't know
if you or anyone was following it, but it was awfully funny to see how
completely silly and brain-damaged a version of what Mikhail seemed to
be saying I could produce and still get his imprimatur.


-- 
     Gene Ward Smith/Brahms Gang/IWR/Ruprecht-Karls University 
               gsmith@kalliope.iwr.uni-heidelberg.de
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: mhr@hpuerca.atl.hp.com (Mike Reaser)
Subject: Re: Soc.motss: The Color Version
Date: Wed, 6 Jan 1993 21:53:16 GMT
Organization: a stone mountain of Kudzu

In <1993Jan5.182137.27221@hemlock.cray.com> steven@cray.com (Steven Levine) writes:

>Observation #8:  We probably have too many private jokes.  Does
>                 that make us a community?  A subculture?  Or
>                 a bunch of obnoxious twits?


It's simple.  We're a community of cultured, obnoxious twits.  :-)

--
=======================================================================
 Mike Reaser, Hewlett-Packard N. Amer. Response Center - Atlanta
 Internet:  mhr@hpuerca.atl.hp.com
 NBCS: B5 f t w g+ k s              I barely speak for myself, so
 #include <standard.disclaimer>       don't make me speak for HP
=======================================================================
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: mhr@hpuerca.atl.hp.com (Mike Reaser)
Subject: Re: Why not cure homosexuality?
Date: Wed, 6 Jan 1993 23:05:30 GMT
Organization: a stone mountain of Kudzu

In <1993Jan6.221422.2686@reed.edu> nelson@reed.edu (Nelson Minar) writes:

[ ... deleted ... ]
>"Shout away your weakness!"

>Catchy theme music, upbeat, modern. TOM SELLECK leads the audience in
>a joyful noise unto the camera. Millions of TV-land viewers to switch
>away from Network 23 to watch the spectacle of "Shout away your
>weakness! You can cure your deviant sexual orientation!" The latest in
>infomercial technology, TV therapy.

>As the din quiets down, more upbeat music comes on, and a barbershop
>quartet sings:

>Are you homosexual
>Hate what it's about?
>Now there's hope for you
>You can shout it out!

Damn it, damn it, damn it!  I've been cured every time I do my laundry!

Those pesky stains?  I Shout 'em out.

Those unattractive spills?  Shout 'em out.

I _never_ imagined a laundry additive was the cure for homosexuality.
I'm so thrilled to find this out I think I'll go home and cure my
husband.  How much Shout would it take for a 260-pound Appalachian
mountain bear?

--
=======================================================================
 Mike Reaser, Hewlett-Packard N. Amer. Response Center - Atlanta
 Internet:  mhr@hpuerca.atl.hp.com
 NBCS: B5 f t w g+ k s              I barely speak for myself, so
 #include <standard.disclaimer>       don't make me speak for HP
=======================================================================
From: rich.bellacera@amail.amdahl.com
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: Clayton's bogus statistics
Date: 6 Jan 93 05:03:43 GMT
Return-Path: <amail.amdahl.com!rich.bellacera@juts.ccc.amdahl.com>

> From: cramer@optilink.COM (Clayton Cramer)
> Subject: Re: Clayton's 10% Silence
>
> [soc.motss deleted because I'm tired of harrassment by a bunch of
> emotional basket cases.]
>
> In article <1992Dec30.004813.16500@ariel.ec.usf.edu>, woodard@figment.tmc.ed
> > Clayton, you still haven't listed your sources.  If listing sources is not
> > requirement for this thread, then have I got some statistics for you
> > concerning the relative proportion of Fundamentalist Baptist ministers
> > convicted of child molestation!
>
> I have REPEATEDLY posted my sources.  Again.

{sources deleted due to non-essential content}

Clayton it is very easy to sight any source which provides data which agrees
with conclusions you have held even before setting out to try to prove your
points.

Anyone can sight any source they want.  The libraries are full of "theories",
"opinions" and "stats" to be used in what ever way best suits the one
researching them.  In the end, for evey stat you provide I'm sure someone can
counter your stat from another source.  What it basically boils down to is you
choose who and what you want to believe.  If you want to see homosexuals as a
great evil, no amount of persuasion from any source will change your opinion.

It seems amazing to me how much energy you seem to exert on your futile little
war.  I don't understand why you feel it is your calling to wage war on a
segment of the population that has no bearing on you?  These are normal
average people who only want to be allowed to live, work, support themselves
and go about their business without discrimination and physical violence
perpetrated against them.

You seem so insistant on labelling gays & lesbians as "criminals" when none
of the "normal" g&ls are even responsible for your little classifications
(Child molesters, murderers, etc.).  If you have something against Child
molesters, rapists, etc. (i.e. those who violate the rights and dignities and
bodies of others, then those are the one you should attack.  Gays & Lesbians
are (by definition) involved in mutually consented sexual relations between
persons of legal age.  If you are want to go attack those who are not involved
involved in "consentual" activities.  You have no more right to blanket
homosexuals all into the same groupings as those who commit violent
"unconscentual" acts, as you have any right to blanket all heterosexual with
those who commit violent unconsentual acts.

Your logic is bizarre and extremely warped (and obviously biased).  One would
get the feeling that you were molested as a child and have never had any
therapy for it.  Perhaps it's time you did???
From: bgonzal@math.rutgers.edu (Bil Gonzalez)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: Musings on Madonna
Date: 10 Jan 93 07:13:28 GMT
Organization: Rutgers Univ., New Brunswick, N.J.

dyer@spdcc.com (Steve Dyer) writes:

>In article <16B511053C.TMCCART3@ua1vm.ua.edu> TMCCART3@ua1vm.ua.edu (Tracey McCartney) writes:
>>and I barely recognized her...

>She's much trimmer... hardbodied, self-confident, and richer 10 years later.

Don't forget that she has also finally gotten rid of her "Brooke Shields"
eyebrows (she even bleached them blonde).  She looks more like Dietrich than
Monroe.  I love how she changes her total look, both in "SEX" and in her
latest videos.  Not only does she achieve looking like differnet people,
she manages to look like film star/models from different decades.  The video
for "Deeper and Deeper" is so deliciously decadent disco.  It just screams
'70's (No, not '60's, as some are mistaken to say).  Her ability to change
her look is one of her charms that I, personally, admire most.

BTW, back to MTV, does anyone else think that John (Lon Chaney "Phantom" 
look-alike) Norris and Kurt Whatever-the-hell-his-name-is are also both
gay?

Bil Gonzalez
bgonzal@math.rutger.edu

"It's so nice to be back home where I belong" - Dolly Levi

RuPaul is coming!RuPaul is coming!RuPaul is Coming!
Where is Rob Walton when you need her?
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: mara@panix.com (Mara Chibnik)
Subject: not really Re: Northern Exposure
Organization: (getting there)
Date: Sat, 9 Jan 1993 13:29:40 GMT

jontom@HQ.Ileaf.COM (J.T. Kittredge) writes:
 > [ ... ]  I seem to remember him commenting in the same vein to
 >Bernard (Chris's black half brother) about blacks and Africans.

But I first read it as 
"... Bernard (Chris Black's half brother)..."

and I wondered how he'd got onto the show.

We now return you to your regularly scheduled discussion.

-- 

  Mara Chibnik
  mara@panix.com                Life is too important to be taken seriously.

Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: bcapps@agora.rain.com (Brent Capps)
Subject: Re: I am confused
Organization: Open Communications Forum
Date: Tue, 12 Jan 1993 02:00:29 GMT

dauber@tattoo.mti.sgi.com (Jeff Dauber) writes:
>In the last week, several people have told me that when they think of
>my personality/interpersonal-style,  I remind them of Mary Poppins.

>Does anyone have any idea:
>A) is this a good thing?
>B) what it means?

Either you are Practically Perfect In Every Way or that you have
an umbrella fetish.
-- 
Brent Capps    (B4) htw-c+(+)g+k+(+)s-e++ | Collars and blindfolds and
bcapps@agora.rain.com (gay stuff)         | bullwhips that sting, these are
bcapps@atlastele.com (telecom stuff)      | a few of my favorite things
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: elf@halcyon.com (Elf Sternberg)
Subject: Re: Pride rings going mainstream? (was Re: Pride Ring Colours...
Originator: elf@halcyon.com
Organization: Pendor, UnLtd.
Date: Fri, 8 Jan 1993 04:20:52 GMT

In article <16B4FD6FE.TMCCART3@ua1vm.ua.edu>
     TMCCART3@ua1vm.ua.edu (Tracey McCartney) writes:

>Here in good ol' Tuscaloosa, AL., you can get pride rings at a place called
>Claire's Boutique, one of a chain of costume-jewelry outfits at shopping
>malls everywhere. I understand that one of the veejays on MTV has begun
>wearing them on the air, and they've become sort of a mainstream fad.

   Nothing wrong with that; the pink triangle is still unique; I've yet
to see even an ally wearing one.  The black triangle too.  Actually, I
saw a way cool pin the other day... it was a BIG accessory pin, the
huge ugly kind worn usually by office-bound women in larger cities.  It
had a small LCD screen that flashed, alternately, a black triangle, a
battleaxe, and the interlocking venus-venus symbol.

>So do this: If you ever spot someone wearing the rings, make it a point to
>thank them for showing their gay pride. I'll bet that more and more
>frequently the response you'll get will be shock and embarrassment.

   I'm sure my friend's eight-year-old daughter, who *does* know what
they mean, will hardly be shocked and embarassed.  Also, said MTV
veejay has also been seen on-air wearing "Homophobia is a social
disease" and "Some of my best friends are straight" t-shirts.

         Elf !!!
--
elf@halcyon.com  (Elf Sternberg)

Then, I was inspired.               God, thy will is hard
Now, I'm sad and tired.             But you hold every card.
Listen, surely I've exceeded        I will drink your cup of poison.
Expectations.                       Nail me to your cross and break me.
Tried for three years,              Bleed me, beat me.
Seems like thirty.                  Kill me.
Could you ask as much               Take me now.
From any other man?                 Before I change my mind.
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: foucault@netcom.com (Howard Arthur Faye)
Subject: Re: Posting Styles
Organization: Netcom Online Communications Services (408-241-9760 login: guest)
Date: Tue, 5 Jan 1993 01:20:22 GMT

In article <1993Jan3.074226.14408@adobe.com> asente@adobe.com (A Usenet Pal) writes:
>In article <1993Jan1.162802.19162@macc.wisc.edu> anderson@macc.wisc.edu (Jess Anderson) writes:
>>
>>Perhaps when the daffodils are in bloom.  Hm, mayhap
>>I will be in Californication at about that time.
>
>Jess, I hate to tell you this, but the daffodils are *already* in bloom at
>our house.
>
>      -paul asente
>
It may be spring in *your* part of California, Paul, but here in
the High Desert (and Mary Shafer will attest to this), it was 15
degrees last night, I'm still planting bare root trees and my
narcissus and tulips aren't due for another 3 months!



-- 
Howard Arthur Faye * Panglossian Acres * Box 7 * Littlerock, CA   93543

"To invite someone to your house means devoting yourself to ensuring his
happiness the whole time he is under your roof." --Brillat-Savarin


Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: anderson@macc.wisc.edu (Jess Anderson)
Subject: Different Strokes (was Re: Changing standards of female beauty)
Organization: Madison Academic Computing Center, UW-Madison
Date: Mon, 4 Jan 93 11:24:01 GMT


In article <1993Jan4.081233.27128@spdcc.com> dyer@spdcc.com
(Steve Dyer) writes:

>In article <1993Jan4.025343.5786@macc.wisc.edu>
>anderson@macc.wisc.edu (Jess Anderson) writes:

>>You [Arne] give the impression (perhaps only to my ear, which would
>>then say something more about me) that you don't entirely
>>approve of this invasion of emollients into your bath.

>I think they're preposterous.

Seems a rather outsized reaction, to me.

>>Maybe this violates your sense of the simple, but it's my
>>impression most gay men have very well furnished baths, with
>>most of that stuff.

>Not the gay men I hang out with.  A very few of my friends
>and acquaintances might, I suppose, but they have their own
>bathrooms, so I am spared any sense of personal assault.

Assault?  Good heavens, is it as dreadful as that?  Are
women assaulted by cremes and moisturizers too?  I wonder if
the problem here is the perception that this stuff is not
butch enough for some folks.

>One of two of my friends will join me for a concert or other
>event, drenched to the gills in some cologne.  I am too
>polite to tell them what I think of this.

I have one friend who does this.  Since I've always loved
him wildly and would marry him on the spot, I'm prepared to
forgive him anything, even his tacky cologne.  

If you *had* to choose one, which would you take: the stink
of cheap cologne or the stink of tobacco smoke?  If you had
to choose one, would you be more likely to throw up at the
smell of cheap cologne or at the smell of burning beef fat?
My point is: compared to what?

>>Besides, quite a lot of these products are rather fun.

>To each his own.  I once had a hunky houseguest I was
>slobbering over until I noticed his bottle of "Oil of Olay"
>on the nightstand.  That took care of my ardor rather
>neatly.

Even stranger than what turns people on is what turns them
off, eh?  I mean, if one is going to be grossly intolerant,
at least it's nicer not to do it over something that really
matters.

Not you, necessarily, but quite a few men, gay and straight
and otherwise, are conditioned not to use any of this stuff
because it's woman-identified.  God forbid anyone should get
the idea we're not Real Men.

Whatever happened to different strokes for different folks?
Maybe it's time for Lipstick Liberation for Boys.

-- 
[Jess Anderson <> Madison Academic Computing Center <> University of Wisconsin]
[Internet: anderson@macc.wisc.edu <-best, UUCP:{}!uwvax!macc.wisc.edu!anderson]
[Room 3130 <> 1210 West Dayton Street / Madison WI 53706 <> Phone 608/262-5888]
[---------> Discrimination, Bigotry, and Hate are not Family Values <---------]
From: dyer@spdcc.com (Steve Dyer)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: Arne Adolphson, etc.
Date: 9 Jan 93 21:54:14 GMT
Article-I.D.: spdcc.1993Jan9.215414.10387
Organization: S.P. Dyer Computer Consulting, Cambridge MA

In article <73238@cup.portal.com> Furr@cup.portal.com (George Dalton Madison) writes:
	>>you expect?  George, it doesn't take more than a poke or two in your
	>>eye to start you sputtering, so don't try to take any moral high
	>
	>My ground's certainly higher than the jerk who's doing the poking.

Not when you do it, as in this whole segment with Arne, which _you_
initiated; I merely called you on it.

	>I'm not here to *impress* you, Jeff Dauber, or anyone else.

I dunno, George: don't you have any self-respect?  If someone tells you
your fly is open, don't you zip it up?  Don't answer that.

	>I'll tell you something I've learned from here and life in
	>general: if you let a bully get away with whatever shit he's
	>pulling -- and make no mistake, that's what Arne is -- they do
	>*not*, as the "nice folk" would tell you, just go away.

Arne as bully is pretty far-fetched.  In any case, my point is by
overreacting the way you do (and I'm not really talking about Arne
here), you shoot yourself in the foot: since this is the whole point
of such comments, you in fact act as an accomplice to their "getting
away with it."

	>Furthermore, I clearly have a different perspective on this
	>"baiting" issue, and frankly, it doesn't bother me. I've tried
	>to express before that I have very little "real" emotional
	>involvment with this, or any other "argument" I've been in.
	>It's a *game*.  And yes, part of that game is (as Jess 
	>Anderson noted) getting the "last word."

When you want to get the last word, it seems to me that choosing
the right word matters a lot.  Otherwise, why bother?

	>And frankly, I think **YOU** have little call to get up on a
	>soapbox and prate at *me*, given that you're the one who asked
	>the question in public that started the whole thing in the FIRST
	>place.

This was known as a word to the wise, George.  I'm not trying to
berate you personally.  I was hoping to persuade you that a reaction
like yours to Arne wasn't helping your reputation, one that isn't
completely accurate but widely held, and one which you strive mightily
towards.

	>>>>Now, how about trying to be an objective core relative?
	>>>You first.
	>>You flunk.  You can't believe how disappointed I am with this line.
	>
	>Once again, I'm not here to impress you. Secondly, there is no
	>such thing as "objective."

Didn't care much for English lit, did you?  This was a _pun_, George.
It has absolutely nothing to do with you.

-- 
Steve Dyer
dyer@ursa-major.spdcc.com aka {ima,harvard,rayssd,linus,m2c}!spdcc!dyer
From: nelson@reed.edu (Nelson Minar)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: Walk?  Shirley Not! (was Re: Soc.motss: The Color Version)
Date: 10 Jan 93 22:02:56 GMT
Article-I.D.: reed.1993Jan10.220256.27783
Reply-To: nelson@reed.edu (Nelson Minar)
Organization: Reed College, Portland, OR

In article <1993Jan10.131129.22149@macc.wisc.edu> anderson@macc.wisc.edu (Jess Anderson) flirts:
>But we could wait until mid-July, then strip naked and run around in
>the corn fields.  If they build it we will come.

I've been reading Ambrose Bierce short stories lately. (ObMotss -
Bierce demonstrates that you don't have to be queer to be a bitchy
queen). There's a wonderful horror story of his titled something like
"What may happen in fields of wild rye." Stephen King stole "Children
of the Corn" from this story.

Cornholing.
                __
nelson@reed.edu \/   Delicious & Nutritious breakfast cereals shot from guns!
Newsgroups: soc.motss