HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: jack@dcs.glasgow.ac.uk (Jack Campin)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books,rec.mag
Subject: Re: Why I read the Economist
Date: 8 Sep 92 16:05:03 GMT
Reply-To: jack@dcs.glasgow.ac.uk (Jack Campin)
Followup-To: rec.mag
Organization: COMANDOS Project, Glesga Yoonie

lnh@soliton.physics.arizona.edu (sometimes a Wombat) wrote:
> ...this week's THE ECONOMIST has a hillarious "company brief" on the House
> of Windsor.

A joke which was used by quite a number of British left publications
throughout the Thatcher era.  I first saw a spoof proposal to privatize the
monarchy, with Borbon SA and Hohenzollern GmbH cited as prospective buyers,
in a strike paper put out by Manchester journalists in 1983.  More
recently, "Class War" has used variants of it a few times.  It might be a
new one to the average "Economist" reader, though.

It's odd how the evaluation of the "Economist" by bourgeois Americans
parallels their appreciation of British pseudo-traditional TV shows; the
cult that started with "Upstairs, Downstairs" and "The Forsyte Saga".
"Class War" would give the average American a much better idea of what the
UK is like (as would the paper it was modelled on, the "News of the World").

[ followups directed *again* to rec.mag... ]

-- 
--  Jack Campin    room G092, Computing Science Department, Glasgow University,
17 Lilybank Gardens, Glasgow G12 8RZ, Scotland   TEL: 041 339 8855 x6854 (work)
INTERNET: jack@dcs.glasgow.ac.uk or via nsfnet-relay.ac.uk    FAX: 041 330 4913
BANG!net: via mcsun and uknet     BITNET: via UKACRL    UUCP: jack@glasgow.uucp
From: ar710@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (William G. Martin)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
Subject: John McPhee
Date: 11 Sep 1992 12:44:17 GMT
Organization: Case Western Reserve University, Cleveland, OH (USA)
Reply-To: ar710@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (William G. Martin)
NNTP-Posting-Host: hela.ins.cwru.edu


I had previously posted a query about what McPhee was currently
working on, and when I could expect something else from him to show up
in the New Yorker, since a year and a half or so had gone by since I
had subscribed, and no McPhee had appeared. I think I sent that in
just over a week ago. (Unfortunately, it seems to have disappeared 
from this system, and no direct follow-ups seem to be extant.)

Anyway, I suppose the gods had designed that to make me appear foolish...
After that year-and-a-half of no McPhee, just about a day after I posted
that note, the new New Yorker arrived (the 9/7/92 issue). In it was the
first part of a three-parter by McPhee, a continuation of his "geology"
series. This one is on the geology of California. I had meant to post 
this follow-up last week, but it slipped my mind... The arrival 
yesterday of the next New Yorker, containing part II, reminded me. (That
is the Sept 14 issue.) I'm saving them all up to read at once...

So McPhee fans can hie themselves over to the library and grab up the
New Yorker! He's baaaaaack!
-- 
Will Martin
wmartin@stl-06sima.army.mil OR wmartin@st-louis-emh2.army.mil
From: mtaranto@shearson.com (Mark Taranto)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
Subject: Re: time for burgess?
Date: 5 Sep 92 04:10:27 GMT


"john lovett" <john.lovett@channel1.com> writes:
 
> Burgess comes across in the book as something of a monster, at least in
> respect to the way he treated his wife.  he watched her drink herself
> to death without lifting a finger to stop her; even after the doctors
> had warned that any more  alcohol would kill her.
 
A friend of mine related a story which was told to him by his thesis 
advisor, who, like Burgess, is a well known Joyce scholar.  At some meeting
or seminar involving Joyce, this professor went to dinner with Burgess
and his wife.  After the dinner, Burgess' wife said something that annoyed
him, so Burgess grabbed both of her hands and forced her down to the pavement,
while berating her.  I've not had the stomach to read any more of Burgess
since hearing this story, in spite of the fact that I liked what I have
read by him.
 
Mark
From: gxs11@po.CWRU.Edu (Gary Stonum)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
Subject: Re: Damned lit yokels, heh heh
Date: 11 Sep 1992 19:56:15 GMT
Organization: Case Western Reserve University, Cleveland, OH (USA)
Reply-To: gxs11@po.CWRU.Edu (Gary Stonum)
NNTP-Posting-Host: slc12.ins.cwru.edu


Give it up, Salinger!  Everybody knows that you're really
Thomas Pynchon now.
-- 
      ||    Gary Lee Stonum                gxs11@po.cwru.edu    ||
      ||    English Department                  216-368-3342    ||
      ||    Case Western Reserve University                     ||
      ||    Cleveland, OH 44106-7117                            ||
From: alex@am.sublink.org (Alex Martelli)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
Subject: notebook computers (was Re: Books on Disc)
Date: 7 Sep 92 22:33:49 GMT
Organization: Premiata Famiglia Martelli & Figli

liam@durie.amigans.gen.nz (Liam Greenwood) writes:

:>In article <s3mn_xp@lynx.unm.edu> rsquires@cyclops.eece.unm.edu (Roger Squires) writes:
:>>       But I am by no means convinced that there is anything inherently
:>>       bad about reading a monitor.  If there existed a good quality
:>    Until I can convince my wife to allow a computer|terminal in the bedroom
:>I will still have to have _some_ paper based books.

What's your wife's objection against a nice little notebook computer?
Right now the ones with the best, active-matrix screens are still
quite costly, but that'll change.  Even now, at 2 to 3 kilos, a
notebook computer is lighter (and similarly smaller and handier)
than many large paper-based books...
-- 
Alex Martelli - alex@am.sublink.org - +39 (51) 250434 - Bologna, Italia
From: lnh@soliton.physics.arizona.edu (sometimes a Wombat)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
Subject: Re: Wonderful Life
Keywords: tosspots who write
Date: 13 Sep 92 19:30:33 GMT
Organization: Society for the Appreciation of Janni Lee Simner

twain@milton.u.washington.edu (Barbara Hlavin) writes:
>
>It's this kind of thing that leads writers to burn their personal 
>papers, and members of their families to destroy unpublished works. 

Personally I'm all for this happening in the first place.

	Larry "Keep them writers away from me" Hammer
--

LNH@physics.arizona.edu          \  "What can be seen, heard, and learned, 
The insane don't need disclaimers \  this I prize." -- Heraclitus, #13
From: spb0457@zeus.tamu.edu (SubGenius)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
Subject: _Lady Chatterly's_ Cover  -or-  New Joyce in Arizona
Date: 15 Sep 1992 23:56:00 GMT
Organization: Texas A&M University, Academic Computing Services
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41

Mike Hicks writes...
>	Hello People!
>	I am a long time fan of Henry Miller, that's for sure, and
>	this morning I thought I might enjoy working backwards 
>	in time through his contemporaries.
>	In particular I'd like to see if I can find in the library
>	a copy of James Joyce's "Lady Chatterly's Lover" (sp?) and
>	I would enjoy to hear people's impressions of this book and
>	others by the same author.
>	Thanks! G'bye
>						-Michael Hicks

+-------------------------------------SubG-------------------------------------+
Although it is entirely possible that James Joyce had a copy of _Lady
Chatterly's L*v*r_ (by that OTHER Lawrence with nary a Pillar of Wisdom to 'is
name), I doubt that a)  your library owns it or that b)  they
would check it out if they did.












Yours etc.,






SubGenius
From: lnh@soliton.physics.arizona.edu (sometimes a Wombat)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
Subject: Re: subjects to avoid
Date: 13 Sep 92 19:43:48 GMT
Distribution: na
Organization: Society for the Appreciation of Janni Lee Simner

francis@oas.stanford.edu (Francis Muir) writes:
>It seems to me that there was a time in the arts in England -- and 
>it lasted about the 50 years from 1880 to 1930 -- when gender confusion
>was almost a requirement to the creative spirit ...  For me, it start 
>with the pre-Raphaelites and Ruskin, and was killed by Freud. 

I won't argue with Freud having murdered sleep, but I find the first
date you mention to be odd.  Wasn't the PRB first active in the late
1850's/early 1860's?  How do you trace something with a 1880 beginning 
date to them?  And, since I missed the first part of the thread, how 
do you account for Hopkins and for Tennyson?  

Well, I think I can do the latter.  Samuel Butler would be harder.

	the inquisitive Mr. E-----
--

LNH@physics.arizona.edu          \  "What can be seen, heard, and learned, 
The insane don't need disclaimers \  this I prize." -- Heraclitus, #13
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
From: tony@nexus.yorku.ca (Anthony Wallis)
Subject: Re: utopias and distopias
Organization: York University
Date: Mon, 7 Sep 1992 13:59:08 GMT

Dani Zweig (dani@netcom.com) wrote:
> It's harder to write a good Utopian novel than a good Distopian one.
> .. I can write a book about a society in which everyone amputates an
> arm at puberty and is happier for it, but that doesn't mean I'm being
> realistic ..

That reminds me !  Does anybody recall a dystopian novel called
"Limbo '90" (author forgotten) ?  Written circa 1960 and set 30 years
into the future (i.e. now), in as much as I can recall (I read it
30 years ago), it described a society in which females are sexually
assertive and male agressiveness is anathema.  Male status depended
on the number of limbs they voluntarially had amputated.  The highest
status was accorded to those who had all four limbs and ..er.. their
fifth "limb" cut off.

It must have been a pretty awful book.  I never heard mention of it
in 30 years, not even from rabid feminists ..

--
tony@nexus.yorku.ca = Tony Wallis, York University, Toronto, Canada

Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
From: le01167@portal.lasc.lockheed.com (Ron Nadel (x2025))
Subject: Re: hectored by Hector
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41    
Organization: Lockheed Aeronautical Systems Co. - Rye Canyon
Distribution: usa
Date: Tue, 15 Sep 92 22:01:51 GMT

In article <1992Sep15.180343.29639@grebyn.com>, fi@grebyn.com (Fiona Webster) writes...

>Just now, I got it.  I was thinking idly about the dream, and suddenly
>I was replaying in my head a film version of "Troilus and Cressida," in
>which the camera shows a dray horse running toward us, with Hector's
>body bouncing behind on the dirt.  And then I thought of the woman
>dragged behind her car.

>Does this ever happen to any of y'all?

A beautiful object lesson in the first steps towards dream interpretation ala
S. Freud.  1) Something about the dream has a connection with an actuality from
the day before the dream evening (called the "dream day"), 2) free association
("thinking idly" without directing or censoring the thoughts that occur to you)
on the points of the dream that you recall, 3) pop, something clicks to explain
the connection...

But you have just begun.  Why you thought of Hector's death in regard to the woman
in the news, for example.  Your clever Subject may provide a clue to this, or not.

I have more to say on this, but you'll have to lie down on the couch...

Ron
From: wismith@amelia.nas.nasa.gov (William R. Smith)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
Subject: Natalie Goldberg & teaching writing
Date: 14 Sep 92 21:23:11 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: NAS, NASA Ames Research Center, Moffett Field, CA


At the rab fest a conversation came up about books for wannabe
writers.  Janine was interested in some I had read.  

I have two of Natalie Goldberg's, one I've read and one on my too read
stack after I follow all the advice in the first one.  "Writing Down
the Bones" is the first, and "Wild Mind", subtitled "Living the Writer's
Life" is the second.

Natalie Goldberg is a writer and teacher of writing.  She is also a
student of Zen and her writing has aspects of Zen teaching.  Here are
two excerpts from the back jacket of WDtB.

	Hundreds of books are around that tell how to avoid bad writing.
	Here is one that tells how to create good writing.  What a
	pleasant surprise.

	The secret of creativity, Natalie Goldberg makes clear, is to
	subtract rules for writing, not add them. ...

					Robert Pirsig, author of
			Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance


	It would be wonderfully efficient and clever of us writers to 
	have to learn our lessons only once; failing that, a copy of
	_Writing Down the Bones_ on a table nearby could save a lot of
	grief. ... It is simply the best aid and comfort around today.

					Judith Guest, author of
					Ordinary People



William Sburgfort Smith
Intel, SSD
From: jzimm@ccwf.cc.utexas.edu (Joann Zimmerman)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
Subject: Re: Encyclopedia Brit.
Date: 14 Sep 92 17:48:15 GMT
Organization: The University of Texas at Austin, Austin TX

In article <1992Sep12.194442.9433@morrow.stanford.edu> francis@oas.stanford.edu (Francis Muir) writes:
>Joann Zimmerman quotes Bernard Berenson:
>Ms Zimmerman might help us explore this most expert of all art experts.
>In a sense he created the world of Italian art as we know it today. His
>personal collection was the most exquisite ever put together, not excepting
>that of the Romanovs.

A Very Obligatory Book:

Meryle Secrest, _Being Bernard Berenson_. (Issued in Penguin at some
point.) I am sorry to have to spoil Francis' illusions, but there was
much which was not admirable about Berenson, including his
connoisseurship, if the reading which I have been doing (from rather
more primary sources than Secrest) is at all truthful, or if the
interpretations which I have been drawing from it are at all correct.

(As a side note, the NYT last week reviewed Secrest's latest book, a
biography of Frank Lloyd Wright, which appears to break some new ground.)

(Further side note: I Tatti is falling apart. Send money!)


-- 
"But there is a limit to human patience; and of research, as of other
carnal pleasures, there cometh satiety at the last." 
                                                  --Bernard Berenson
 ...!cs.utexas.edu!ccwf.cc.utexas.edu!jzimm
From: amnell@klaava.Helsinki.FI (Marko Amnell)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
Subject: Re: Wonderful Life
Date: 11 Sep 92 21:33:41 GMT
Organization: University of Helsinki

In <1992Sep11.204902.25255@morrow.stanford.edu> francis@oas.stanford.edu
(Francis Muir) writes:

>Since 85% of the male population and 15% of the female population are also
>womanizers, what's the Big Deal?

Fascinating... where do get your statistics?  Anyway, I don't think that
flings between professors and students are always such a good idea.
(Even with pretty art students, from what I've heard.  :-) :-)
As to my name, with your classical education you might have guessed
that it comes from the Latin for 'small river'.  And as to Toronto :-)
I used to live there (really, for seven years).

-- 
Marko Amnell
amnell@klaava.helsinki.fi
Graduate Student in Philosophy
From: amnell@klaava.Helsinki.FI (Marko Amnell)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
Subject: Re: Wonderful Life
Date: 11 Sep 92 18:57:30 GMT
Organization: University of Helsinki

I'll probably regret this--and feel free to flame me... but I have it
from a reliable source that Gould is also a womanizer and opportunist.
I don't think very highly of his work.  There, I've said what I think of
the man.  So hate me.


-- 
Marko Amnell
amnell@klaava.helsinki.fi
Graduate Student in Philosophy
From: le01167@portal.lasc.lockheed.com (Ron Nadel (x2025))
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
Subject: Book Search Request
Date: 8 Sep 92 17:30:11 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: Lockheed Aeronautical Systems Co. - Rye Canyon
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41

I read a book more than 25 years ago that I would like to read again,
but I can't remember the title.  The plot concerns a gentle humble
priest who has ongoing comments and conversations with Christ who 
has come off the cross to speak with him.  There are some very funny
moments in the book, and we learn ultimately that everything is 
really taking place within the thoughts of the little priest.

I believe he may have been a Spanish priest during the time of
Franco??  And there may have been something in there about
facists and communists???

The book is so dusty within my memory that when I blow off the
cobwebs, all I can make out is _The Little World of..._  or
maybe it's _The Strange World of..._ or _The Strange Little
World of..._ something or other.  I think that the elipsis is
in place of his name.

Can anyone help?

Thanks, Ron
From: mtaranto@shearson.com (Mark Taranto)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
Subject: Re: The White Man's Burden of Proof
Date: 14 Sep 92 14:33:59 GMT
Organization: Yale CS Mail/News Gateway


wojdylo@maths.uwa.oz.au (INFIDEL) writes:
 
> Do yourself a favor and look up the word "catachresis".
 
There is no need for me to look it up, when the old INFIDEL has provided
us with so many examples of using a word in the wrong context.  The New,
Improved Infidel seems to have a better grip on usage.
 
Mark
 
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
From: jmc@SAIL.Stanford.EDU (John McCarthy)
Subject: Re: NPR & Freedom of the Press: Part II
Reply-To: jmc@cs.Stanford.EDU
Organization: Computer Science Department, Stanford University
	<JMC.92Sep5122053@SAIL.Stanford.EDU>
Date: 5 Sep 92 13:45:23

James Brock suggested a scene in which a Vietnamese woman is raped or a
showing of old newsreels.  That would be far too much of an intrusion
on the story.

Let me add the following hint and impose it as a requirement for the
prize.  The scene fragment can be fitted into almost any movie of
contemporary life.  It would normally require no additional actors and
no additional scene.  The take could have been written in advance by
some "Hollywood Committee for Peace and Justice" and offered to any
director or writer who wanted to do his bit for "peace".

I'll offer another $25 for an anti-nuclear power scene fragment
meeting the same requirement.  In this case, I don't haven't seen
any such thing or have one in mind, but I'm sure it can be done rather
easily.

Similar right wing bits could be concocted by a "Hollywood Committee
for Decency in Films", although I don't see how one could have been
fitted into this movie.  Because of the general tone, anything rightist
would have stuck out like a sore thumb even though the movie was not
basically political.

Hmm, I'll put up yet another $25 for the best way of adding a bit of
rightist propaganda to "Mistresses".  It must be genuine rightist
propaganda and not a bit spoken or done by one of the characters for
the audience to laugh at.  Best would be something that could have
been written by the "Hollywood Committee for Decency in Films" for
general purposes but which nevertheless could be put into
"Mistresses".  No prize will be awarded if no-one comes up with
a candidate I consider plausible.

Please post your candidates if you can.


--
John McCarthy, Computer Science Department, Stanford, CA 94305
*
He who refuses to do arithmetic is doomed to talk nonsense.

Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
From: entpph@ritvax.isc.rit.edu
Subject: Re: The Literary Canon
Reply-To: entpph@ritvax.isc.rit.edu
Organization: Rochester Institute of Technology
Date: Sat, 5 Sep 1992 13:19:05 GMT

I'm sorry, Ms. Manes. I should have said a rational or reasonable
case.  I am aware that humans can find an apparently limitless
list of things to use as ostensible reasons to discriminate against
others.

I will choose my words more carefully next time.  Thank you for the
list of books.  

BTW, RIT is the site of the National Technical Institute for the 
Deaf, a major educational site for hearing impaired folks.

Erik Timmerman
From: nall@sun8.scri.fsu.edu (John Nall)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
Subject: Re: More Books to Avoid (was: VEGETARIAN DIET)
Date: 10 Sep 92 20:27:54 GMT
Reply-To: nall@sun8.scri.fsu.edu (John Nall)
Organization: SCRI, Florida State University

In article <BuDJyJ.6Dy@dcs.glasgow.ac.uk> jack@dcs.glasgow.ac.uk (Jack Campin) writes:

>This coincidentally comes up at the same time as a thread on rec.arts.books
>about things on book covers that set your crap alarm off ("in the gripping
>tradition of Jeffrey Archer"...).  This trips one of mine several times
>over: books with "M.D." after the author's name on the cover.
>
>It's an appeal to authority - "this guy is a REAL DOCTOR, just like in the
>Reader's Digest" - that I find about as inviting as a foreword from the
>Pope.  Usually the contents are sub-Christian inspirational pap or crass

  Well, since you've raised the issue, let me pontificate on this for
  a brief moment, even though it is a tad off the subject.  And even
  more off the *original* subject (was: VEGETARIAN DIET) :-)

  This has to do with *people* to avoid - on the net.  That is, the
  ones whose postings you ignore, whose advice is invariably bad and/or
  incorrect, and who you just wish would go away:

  -- people who put Ph.D in their signatures

  -- people who say "Although I'm not a {lawyer, doctor, indian chief, etc.}.."

  -- people whose .sig has obnoxious political messages

  -- people who put {Professor, Associate Professor, Assistant Professor}
		in their signatures

  -- people who put impressive titles in their .sig

  -- people who use a lot of CAPITALIZED words

  -- people who quote all of something which has already been
	   quoted a zillion times

  -- and, perhaps....not sure.....people who say "just my $0.02

There.  I said it and I'm glad!

John

--
John W. Nall              | Supercomputer Computations Research Institute
nall@mailer.scri.fsu.edu  | Florida State University, Tallahassee, Florida
   "A loaf of bread, a jug of wine, and thou....and perhaps some
	 munchies, couple of pillows, some music.." - Omar Khayyam (modern)
From: yuf@sequent.com (Kyle Grieser)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
Subject: Re: utopias and distopias
Date: 14 Sep 92 23:13:06 GMT
Article-I.D.: sequent.1992Sep14.231306.10550
Organization: Sequent Computer Systems Inc.

In article <1992Sep8.213434.19757@nas.nasa.gov> wismith@amelia.nas.nasa.gov (William R. Smith) writes:
>Aldus Huxley's "Brave New World" and for a counter example, his "Ape
>and Essence".

I'm a great fan of Huxley (It's "Aldous"), and I'd also highly
recommend "Island".  While "Brave New World" and "Island" both deal
with utopias, they are completely different.  It's really interesting
to see how Huxley deals with the two.  Huxley seemed quite interested
in the utopian thing...  you should investigate further...

-yuf
From: mtaranto@shearson.com (Mark Taranto)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books
Subject: Re: Editors other than Bowdler...
Date: 6 Sep 92 21:43:49 GMT


fuller@athena.cs.uga.edu (James P. H. Fuller) writes:
 
>     I recall when the uncut edition of _The Waste Land_ appeared, to much
> fanfare.  After actually getting a look at the restored passages most of us
> concluded that Eliot was a great poet, which we already knew, and also that
> Pound (who did the original cutting) was an excellent editor.
 
Those who visit New York and take a trip to the display room at the main
branch of the library (42nd St & 5th Ave) will discover the original version
of THE WASTELAND with Pound's comments, and slashes through complete
stanzas.  I first saw this just after reading Peter Ackroyd's excellent
biography of Eliot -- and was able to see first hand what he had described.
 
There were one or two pages crossed out before we encounter "April is the
cruelest month . . . ."
 
This method of writing poetry continued into the next generation.  The
young Auden would send poems off to Isherwood, who would cross out complete
lines, and suggest changes.
 
Mark
 
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books