From: S_TITZ@iravcl.ira.uka.de (Olaf Titz)
Subject: [fwd] Determinism and Deja Vu
Organization: Fachschaft Informatik, Uni Karlsruhe
Date: Tue, 29 Sep 1992 14:26:41 GMT
X-News-Reader: VMS NEWS 1.23

[Since I raised this issue here not long ago I think I should repost
here what I just picked from alt.atheism.moderated, along with an
answer of mine.]

[FORWARDED----------------------------------------------------------------]
From: fred@meiko.co.uk (Mark Homewood)
Newsgroups: alt.atheism.moderated
Subject: Determinism and Deja Vu
Date: 28 Sep 92 12:38:04 GMT
Organization: Meiko Ltd. Bristol

As long as I can remember I have been what I call an Atheist. During the past
22 years (since I was eight about) I have compared everything I have observed
loosely against a scientific model and not observed anything which seemed
improbable. That is except for a single happening, which I would like to
OArecall here, since it disturbs this model. 

---
While at college I went on a camping holiday with a student girlfriend. We
travelled across to the continent on a ferry. I never
sleep very well in the Economy recliner so I lay on the floor and had a very
disturbed night. In the morning over a cup of coffee brewed on deck over a
parafin stove I told my companion of a odd dream I'd just had. "We were walking
down this street and stopped outside this bar. We sat on a brick wall outside
this bar and on the wall next to us there was a pile of broken walnut shells".

We arrived in Holland and took a train to Gronigen in the north. Where we were
going to camp. We walked around the town and came to a bar. While deciding
what to do we sat on the wall outside. I looked down, deja vu, a pile of walnut
shells. I pointed them out to my friend "Look". She remembered with clarity
my dream, "Just like you said".
---

I have many deja vu which I dismiss as 'a trick of the brain' but how could
I trick someone else. Has anyone else had such an experience ? Or an
explanation other than mere chance ?

[-------------------------------------------------------------------------]

My answer was as follows:

Not everything we regard as improbable disturbs the scientific
foundations of the world. An experience that can not be explained on
the spot on the basis of Newton's Laws does not prove that there is
something wrong with the world being seen on a stable scientific
ground, does not prove that something 'supernatural' [== not
*explainable* by scientific means] is involved, it does merely give an
indication that the world is not explained *completely* with the
currently known scientific models. In fact, since Einstein and quantum
mechanics we know that Newton's Laws are just an *approximation* that
fails for lack of exactness when it comes to very high speeds or very
small dimensions. 

Researchers are trying hard to explain phenomena they observe, but
nobody can explain everything observed on the spot. I think you should
not be disturbed by some experience that seemingly doesn't fit into a
currently known model. Instead a scientific approach to such
experience should be to further improve models and theories to match
experience where possible rather than taking the religious approach
{flame: the approach of the Pope towards Galilei}.

I have wondered about precognition experiences too and still have not
found a theory to explain them (otherwise, it would probably be known
to you already :-) However, I keep thinking about it and encourage
you to do so too {and don't let such things lead you away from atheism}.



MfG,
        Olaf
-- 
    o     Olaf Titz - comp.sc.student - univ of karlsruhe - germany
 _ /<_    s_titz@iravcl.ira.uka.de - uknf@dkauni2.bitnet - praetorius@irc
(_)>(_)   +49-721-60439 - did i forget something?
Woe to the land that's governed by a child! - Shakespeare
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