HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: mvm@caesun6.harris-atd.com (Matt Mahoney)
Subject: Re: Sestiere (Italy) Meet
Reply-To: mvm@epg.harris.com (Matt Mahoney)
Organization: CAE Design Center, Harris Corp., Melbourne, Fl.
Date: Wed, 29 Jul 1992 12:38:15 GMT

acha@CS.CMU.EDU (Anurag Acharya) writes:
>That is surprising. I would expect higher elevations to hamper sprinters --
>the primary problem being low atmospheric oxygen. 

Sprinting doesn't take much oxygen.  I know a guy who runs a 5K in about
32 minutes (I do 19), but his 100 yard time is about the same as mine.
On the other hand, I beat a guy who runs 16 minute 5K's in the 200 meter.
Another example?  Look at Flo Jo's 20 minute 5K's.

World class sprinters run about 21 MPH.  If you ride a bicycle, you know
wind resistance is significant.  At 6600 feet, air density is only about
3/4 as much as sea level.

--------------------------------        _\/_
Matt Mahoney, mvm@epg.harris.com       |(TV)|  Drug of the Nation
#include <disclaimer.h>                |____|
From: lari@khayam.berkeley.edu (Francesco Lari)
Newsgroups: rec.running
Subject: Re: 10k first mile: how fast?
Date: 30 Jul 92 23:28:13 GMT
Reply-To: lari@robotics.berkeley.edu
Organization: UC Berkeley Signal Processing VLSI Group


In article <5700027@hpdmd48.boi.hp.com>, smay@hpdmd48.boi.hp.com (Scott
Smay) writes:
|> Relative to the average pace over the 10k course, how fast should the first 
|> mile be run? I'd be interested in hearing opinions/reasons in other
distances
|> as well.
|> 
|> As an example of my personal experience, in my last 10k I ran the first mile
|> in 5:41, goal pace was 6:00, actual pace averaged 6:04. I suspect this is
|> going out too fast, though I was consciously holding back and wasn't pushing
|> it or suffering until the sprint for the finish. I wonder if it makes sense
|> to use the adrenaline and tension for that first mile, or if by not using it
|> you can hold an overall faster pace.
|> 
|> cheers,
|> scott smay

My best races and all my PR have always been running even split. I usually 
"brake" myself in the first mile, and then get my adrenaline rush passing 
everyone else (well, almost never everyone :-) in the next two miles. 
Then, if you really want a PR, you better be near somebody fast in the last 
3 miles, and just hang on...... 

		     FRANCESCO
From: raymond@harp.ecn.purdue.edu (Ray Kamin)
Newsgroups: rec.running
Subject: Re: Which event for Bosnian?
Date: 31 Jul 92 18:50:06 GMT
Organization: Purdue University Engineering Computer Network

In article <45931@shamash.cdc.com> gkc@freddie.udev.cdc.com (gordon k chace x2367) writes:
>Last nite's CBS news did a short bio of a Bosnian women who just barely got
>out of Sarajevo to become an Olympian.  They had some file footage of her
>training by dodging debris.  Looks like her natural event would be the
>Steeplechase, if that was offered for women :-(
>
>The TV folks neglected to say which event she will compete.  Does anybody
>know?  She looks to have a relaxed stride which suggests one of the longer
>distances.
>

3000 meters

Ray Kamin
Newsgroups: rec.running
From: drivas_p@apollo.hp.com (Peter Drivas)
Subject: Re: ITB and other pains
Summary: Personal experiences with ITB 
Date: Wed, 22 Jul 1992 15:25:57 GMT
Organization: Hewlett-Packard Corporation, Chelmsford, MA
Keywords: ITB 

In article <Bqq0Eq.BzH@m2.dseg.ti.com> jeanne@raspberry.rts.dseg.ti.com (Jeanne Christman) writes:
>I've been reading with interest the discussions about ITB.  I have one question,
>though.  What are the symptoms??
>
ITB is generally felt as a soreness on the side of the knee. The pain is usually at
its worst when walking down stairs or running downhill. In my case, the pain wasn't
sensitive to touch, but it definitely kept me from running. The doctor I went to 
said that ITB syndrome is characterized by the general, travelling nature of the pain,
which in severe cases can occur as far up as the conection point at the hip. The
cause of ITB syndrome is the rubbing of the illiotibial band, which runs from the
hip to the knee, over the bone that juts out on the outside of the knee ( it has
a name I don't remember ).

My prescribed treatment was to stop running and use an alternative form of 
exercise that didn't cause pain ( in my case bicycling ). The only anti-inflammatory
I took was ibuprofen in large doses ( 3 or 4 200mg tablets, 4 times a day ). I also
iced twice a day for twenty minutes, once after working out and once before going
to bed. When the pain was gone, I gradually worked back into running. The whole processtook about a month. 

I was pretty lucky in my case. Some people never seem to shake the symptoms. In 
severe cases, surgery can be tried but is a 50/50 proposition. My doctor also 
stated that some people are more prone to getting ITB syndrome than others for
various genetic reasons he didn't elaborate on. 

Hope this helps.

-- 
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Peter Drivas				  Email: drivas_p@apollo.hp.com   
Hewlett-Packard
Organization: Penn State University
Date: Thu, 23 Jul 1992 21:48:40 EDT
From: <NXG101@psuvm.psu.edu>
Newsgroups: rec.running
Subject: Where's Vicki Huber?

   I got to see Track and Field News today.  It listed the American Olympic
qualifiers.  I searched for Vicki Huber's name among the middle distances and
couldn't find her --even in the heats.  Does anyone know why she didn't run?


   Also, T&F did not list Olga Markova among the favorites even though she ran
a 2:23:43 this year which is something like the fifth fastest all-time.  Does
anyone know why she was left out?


   My predictions for the Men's Marathon
    Gold  Salvador Garcia 2:10:10
    Silver   Ibrahim Hussein 2:10:14
    Bronze   Douglas Wakiihuri 2:10:30

    Mentionables:  Ed Eyestone  2:11:42   (8)
                   Steve Spence 2:11:58   (9)
                   Gelindo Bordin 2:10:51 (4)

      Let's face it.  Nobody runs marathons like the Mexicans and Kenyans

DAn
Newsgroups: rec.running
From: puckett@lambda.msfc.nasa.gov (Jim Puckett)
Subject: Chicamauga Marathon - query
Summary: When?
Organization: NASA/MSFC
Date: Tue, 21 Jul 1992 13:25:56 GMT


I have been talking to some friends who convinced me that Chicamauga should
be my first marathon. Now I've lost contact with them! - and don't know who
to contact to find out about this (supposedly November) marathon.

Anybody know anything?

just one more mile,

jim p.


-- 
Jim Puckett    NTI    puckett@freedom.msfc.nasa.gov     
Huntsville,AL (205)461-4922  
This life is a test. It is only a test. If it had been a real life, you 
would have been given instructions....
From: milts@mse.cse.ogi.edu (Milt Scholl)
Newsgroups: rec.running
Subject: Re: Ultramarathon on track
Keywords: ultramarathon, track, running
Date: 28 Jul 92 23:32:08 GMT
Organization: Oregon Graduate Institute, Material Science & Engineering

In article <rrempel.712359148@sfu.ca> rrempel@fraser.sfu.ca (Rodney Dwight Rempel) writes:
>In 6 weeks I will be running my first ultramarathon on a track
>(12 hours). I have run a 50 miler on trails before, as well as
>a few marathons, but have avoided tracks since highschool.
>I'm looking for hints, do-s/don't do-s, and general impressions
>on differences between plodding on a track and "normal" running.
>Will they be reversing the direction every few hours, or should
>I expect knee problems ???
>"General help" request: ...
>Thanks
>
>Rod Rempel rrempel@sfu.ca
>Department of Kinesiology, Simon Fraser University
>... if two million people do a stupid thing it's still a stupid thing.

Most people I know that run track ultras do experience some sort of
problems on the outer leg due to the turns - a common trick is to
consistantly run the straights and walk the turns. The important 
thing is to have a plan and ideally have a handler who will sweet-talk,
coerce, yell, kick you in the tail, to keep to that plan.  Unlike
a trail ultra - there are no hills so you don't have that excuse to
rest - hence having a plan like run 4 laps walk 1 etc.  My friends
also find that food, or consumption of food is a problem.  People who
never have stomach problems on a trail ultra have them at track races,
so be forewarned and forearmed.

Myself, I've never run a track race, and I've sworn to never run a race
with more than 5 laps.  However our trail running club, the Oregon Trail
Runners Association, initiated the Megan's Run 24 hr track race here
in Portland (last years TACC championship 24 hr race), and many members,
my friends and compnions have run it.

just my 2 cents :')

-milt scholl
milts@mse.ogi.edu
From: pcannon@spotlight.Corp.Sun.COM (Phil Cannon)
Newsgroups: rec.running
Subject: Re: Olympics
Date: 22 Jul 92 21:41:22 GMT
Organization: Sun Microsystems, Mt. View, Ca.
NNTP-Posting-Host: spotlight.corp.sun.com

Larry Ehmer writes:
>
>Does anyone know what the US record is for most top 3 finishers at the
>Track & Field Trials who have not competed at the Olympics?  
>
>Most people know by now that Kami Keshmiri had more than back problems
>after the Trials.  My understanding is that his positive test was from
>April.  Why didn't it surface until after the Trials?

It was in mid-May (the 17th?), about ten days before his huge 232-5
Collegiate Record at the Salinas meet (series included three other
throws over 220), which of course will probably not recognized.  
Considering he's a collegian and hasn't thrown a lot overseas, I 
wondered why he gets "randomly" tested so often (thrice before 
the Salinas this year, over 10 times in the last year by his
account), and why it took so long for this to surface. 

I'm aware of masking and such things, but this case seems *odd*.
_Nothing_ shows up at the NCAA meet or the Trials? Oh well, he
was planning on retiring this year anyway (July _Track&Field News_ 
cover story).

> <stuff deleted>
>Anyone know more about the women's javelin and other events where being in
>the Top 3 at the Trials hasn't meant a trip to Spain?
>Who is the lowest finisher at a Trials to actually make a US Olympic team?

I've been wondering myself...not that it will make a big difference
in the event's outcome at the Games (make that *should* :)

>Any more news on whether or not Patti Sue Plumer will run the 1500m at
>Barcelona.  Immediately after the Trials she was considering/fairly certain

PattiSue never meant to imply that should wouldn't compete in
both, if people thought she did. I don't think Mary Slaney was ever
under the impression that "P-Soup" was going to "step aside". The
only such graciousness I know of from the Trials was the instance
whereby Connie Price-Smith gave her team spot in the shot put to
Pam Dukes. Price-Smith already had a spot in the discus, and the
Duker had finished 4th at the Trials in '88 also.

PacMan, the TrackFan
----------------------------------------------------------------
Phil Cannon			| pcannon@spotlight.corp.sun.com
"WHHHOOOOOOOOOOoooooooooooo"	| cannon@ocf.berkeley.edu
		-- "Woo" Curve, Penn Relays
		   Franklin Field, Philadelphia
----------------------------------------------------------------
Newsgroups: rec.running
From: preston@dawn.cs.rice.edu (Preston Briggs)
Subject: Re: Sestiere (Italy) Meet
Organization: Rice University, Houston
Date: Thu, 23 Jul 1992 17:18:23 GMT

acha@CS.CMU.EDU (Anurag Acharya) writes:

>>   All were wind aided.  Powell had 4.4 m/s, more than twice allowable wind.
>>   Even more amazing was Drechsler's 25-0 1/2 which was also wind aided.
>>   Also, the meet was at 6,600 ft elevation; helps the sprinters and jumpers.
>
>That is surprising. I would expect higher elevations to hamper sprinters --
>the primary problem being low atmospheric oxygen. 

Naw...  Sprinters and jumpers don't breathe (at least, they don't
especially need to during the duration of the event).
Hence the amazing marks set during the Mexico City Olympics in 1968
(and the relatively less amazing marks for the longer events).

Preston Briggs
Newsgroups: rec.running
From: bauer@shab00.larc.nasa.gov (Steven X.S. Bauer)
Subject: Re: Marine Corps Marathon
Reply-To: bauer@shab00.larc.nasa.gov (Steven X.S. Bauer)
Organization: NASA-Langley Research Center
Date: Thu, 23 Jul 1992 10:01:58 GMT

The Marine Corps Marathon was the first marathon
that I have run and the second time I ran it was my
fastest marathon to date (2:55:03).

I could give you a detailed account of the entire
course, but I think I will just mention the highlights.

Once you enter Georgetown, you will find a lot of
bands and you will run down a pretty steep hill.

Running through the Mall is always exciting and
lots of spectators around to cheer you on.

Haynes point is always a pain.  The wind seems 
to always be in your face and that is the last thing
you want around the 20 mile mark.

After leaving Haynes point loop, you run up on
a bridge.  And it feels like you keep climbing 
all the way across it.

Finally, the finish is at the top of a pretty steep
hill.  All the spectators encourage you that the
finish line is just around the corner...either they
are confused, or it is one long corner.

All in all, it is a very enjoyable run.  Every time
that I have run it the weather has been just 
about perfect.

Wish you luck.

Steven X.S. Bauer                      /bauer@shab00.larc.nasa.gov
NASA-Langley Research Center  /all opinions are my own and do
Hampton,VA 23665                    /not reflect those of NASA
Newsgroups: rec.running,sci.med
From: margaret@igor.tamri.com (Margaret Kritzer)
Subject: Di-Methyl Glycine ?
Organization: TOSHIBA America MRI, South San Francisco, CA
Date: Mon, 27 Jul 92 17:44:23 GMT

Yesterday I went to a fairly well-stocked vitamin counter,
wanting advice about supplements for my running program,
as well as my life in general!  I got a pretty comprehensive
package of vitamins, minerals, amino acids and anti-oxidants.
Then the vitamin guru recommended doing some DMG, sublingually,
10 minutes before a hard run.  He claimed it converts lactic
acid into oxygen.  Sort of like recycling.  Is this true?  Sounds
too good to be true, to me.

Haven't tried it yet, though.  He said, knowingly, "You'll
be back for more".

Has anyone tried this stuff?

Thanks,
	Margaret




-- 


==========================================================================

Newsgroups: rec.running
From: lari@khayam.berkeley.edu (Francesco Lari)
Subject: Re: Ultramarathon on track
Keywords: ultramarathon, track, running
Reply-To: lari@robotics.berkeley.edu 	
Organization: UC Berkeley Signal Processing VLSI Group
Date: Tue, 28 Jul 1992 23:41:50 GMT


In article <rrempel.712359148@sfu.ca>, rrempel@fraser.sfu.ca (Rodney
Dwight Rempel) writes:
|> In 6 weeks I will be running my first ultramarathon on a track
|> (12 hours). I have run a 50 miler on trails before, as well as
|> a few marathons, but have avoided tracks since highschool.
|> I'm looking for hints, do-s/don't do-s, and general impressions
|> on differences between plodding on a track and "normal" running.
|> Will they be reversing the direction every few hours, or should
|> I expect knee problems ???
|> "General help" request: ...
|> Thanks
|> 
I guess you should expect severe psychological problems. The problem with 
doing more than a 5K on track is that it get dead boring.(yes, even the 10K 
are more difficult on a track than on road, at ANY level). 

Running on a trail is far, far easier than running on a track. 
I suggest you to run a 3 hours training session on track, then you will 
be able to decide by yourself if it's worth..... 

		     FRANCESCO
From: krasnor@nimios.eng.mcmaster.ca (Carl Krasnor)
Subject: Re: To wear a shirt or not?
Organization: Communications Research Laboratory, McMaster Univ
Date: Tue, 28 Jul 1992 21:14:11 GMT

In article <92124@bu.edu> dmf@buengf.bu.edu (David Franklin) writes:
>
>I have been told by former coaches that running with a shirt on will decrease
>the rate of water evaporation from the skin.  This in turn will decrease the
>rate of dehydration.  So if you want to run in hot weather without a shirt on,
>you probably should be careful to hydrate yourself frequently during the run...
>
>---B-O-S-T-O-N---U-N-I-V-E-R-S-I-T-Y-----------------------------------------
>-------------------------------C-O-L-L-E-G-E---O-F---E-N-G-I-N-E-E-R-I-N-G---
>

Wrong! Wrong! Wrong! You oversimplyfy and come to a false conclusion. If you
are correct that a shirt will decrease the rate of evaporation, then wearing
a shirt will INCREASE the rate of dehydration. Your body dehydrates via
perspiring and perspiring is a response to elevated body temperature. The
reduced evaporation rate you refer to reduces the rate of cooling and the
body will compensate by sweating MORE. Your body has no sensors to check that
the skin is already wet.

To convince you further, another factor which decreases evaporation rate is
increased humidity. No one would try to argue that elevated humidity levels
reduce your rate of dehydration during a run. (However this may be true for
a lettuce in the fridge!).

To take your logic to its absurd conclusion, if one were to wear a snug
body suit made out of latex rubber, one should be able to cover enormous
distances without water.

To summarize, in the heat, runners should do everything possible to
FACILITATE evaporation of perspiration from the skin and this will
MINIMIZE the rate of dehydration!!!!!

-- 
===============================================================================
Carl Krasnor, Communications Research Lab, McMaster U., Hamilton, Ont. CANADA
krasnor@McMaster.CA   VE3EGK   Tel:(416) 525-9140 x4171    FAX:(416) 521-2922
===============================================================================
From: jm0i@ns1.cc.lehigh.edu (JOSEPH ALOYSIUS MCVEIGH)
Newsgroups: rec.running
Subject: Re: Long Distance on a Track
Date: 30 Jul 92 18:41:21 GMT
Organization: Lehigh University

lari@robotics.berkeley.edu writes:
>>I guess you should expect severe psychological problems. The problem with
>>doing more than a 5K on track is that it get dead boring.(yes, even the 10K
>>are more difficult on a track than on road, at ANY level).

Martin Coleman responds:
>Just my opinion based on past experience: Personally I have run better on 10Ks
>on the track. I set my PR on the track; my best _race_ in terms of
>concentration, strategy, performance was on the track. Plus, a road or
>cross 10K can be just as dismal and boring as any track race if you
>are not running well.

I'm with Martin. My best 10,000 was also on a track. The conditions are better
for running; a track's turns are a lot faster than the customary 90 degree
road variety, and the extra propulsion added by wearing spikes is a huge
advantage. Based on my experience, I "guesstimate" that a completely flat road
course is about 30-40 seconds slower, all else equal.

That leaves the mental aspect. Tracks are worse in this regard, but I always
kept my concentration level low for the first 8-10 laps; I would look at the
people in the stands/sidelines, listen to the PA announcements, etc., until
the going got tougher and competitive - when just "going with the herd" fell
apart, and people would begin shifting positions for reasons other than not
tripping over each others' feet. As a pack broke up, I hunkered down, and that
left just about half the race to stay really mentally involved.

-- 
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Joseph Aloysius McVeigh | "Whatever could go wrong has gone wrong, and some
                        |  things that haven't gone wrong were assumed to have
       "N.I.N.A."       |  gone wrong." - Michael Barish (on Mexican stocks)
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Xref: sparky rec.running:1906 misc.fitness:5835 sci.med:14270
From: loszewski_im@sage.hnrc.tufts.edu
Newsgroups: rec.running,misc.fitness,sci.med
Subject: Re: How To Identify Lactic Acid Buildup?
Date: 22 Jul 92 17:30:26 GMT
Organization: USDA HNRC at Tufts University

In article <30dmb2q.westes@netcom.com>, westes@netcom.com (Will Estes) writes:
> Could someone who is familiar with the subject please tell me what sorts
> of symptoms lactic acid buildup causes on the day *after* a long
> workout, and are there any ways to speed recovery?
> 
> I'm actually a windsurfer, not a runner, but it seems to me that lactic
> acid is a problem that runners deal with frequently.  I find that the
> day after a long day of windsurfing, my whole body is incredibly weak.
> It's not a localized pain, as with a weightlifting workout, but a
> general lethargy and a sensation in the muscle that it will not sustain
> any kind of work.  I guess I could describe the feeling as one of not
> having any glycogen stored in the muscle.  I'm not sore; it's more that
> I just lack any muscular energy.
> 
> Any thoughts on whether these symptoms are due to lactic acid, and can
> someone recommend a few tricks for speeding recovery from a long
> endurance workout?
> 
> Thanks,

Will,

"Lactic acid buildup can cause burning pain, especially in untrained muscles.
Lactic acid accumulation can lead to muscle exhaustion withing seconds if the
blood cannot clear it away.  A strategy for dealing with lactic acid buildup
 is to relax the muscles at every opportunity, so that the circulating blood
can carry the lactic acid away and bring Oxygen to support aerobic metabolism.
...much of the lactic acid is routed to the liver, where it is converted to 
glucose.  A little lactic acid remains in muscle tissue, where it is completely
oxidized when the oxygen supply is once again sufficient."  Understanding
Nutrition, 5th ed., Whitney, Hamilton, Rolfes., West Pub. Comp.  1990, pg402-
403.
Hope this was some help to you Will.  In my opinion, what your experiencing is
not lactic acid buildup but muscle breakdown due to a hard workout.  Also I 
wonder what you eat after your workout.  If you are not eating enough complex
carbs to refuel your muscles, your body is going to feel like spaghetti the
next day.  I think what your experiencing is what every hardcore bodybuilder
experiences.  If you have anymore questions, feel free to email me.

Rob
Loszewski_im@hnrc.tufts.edu

> Will Estes         Internet: westes@netcom.com
From: eesfd@gdr.bath.ac.uk (F Dudbridge)
Newsgroups: rec.running
Subject: Re: Olympic predictions
Date: 24 Jul 92 16:19:00 GMT
Organization: School of Electrical Engineering, University of Bath, UK

>How about somebody really sticking their neck out on a limb and making
>some predicitions about the men's marathon?

Hmmm. Tricky Johnny.  Maybe Dionicio Ceron, or Steve Moneghetti, or most
likely a completely unknown Ethiopian.  But not Steve Spence, I don't think.

Olga Markova for the women's marathon, I hope.  We had a surprising encounter
at a party last year but her Russian coach intervened before things got
too familiar.  A lucky escape for us both, I think.  Can anyone beat this for
blatant name-dropping?
Newsgroups: rec.running
From: acha@CS.CMU.EDU (Anurag Acharya)
Subject: Re: Sestiere (Italy) Meet
Date: Thu, 23 Jul 92 17:31:45 GMT
Organization: School of Computer Science, Carnegie Mellon University
Originator: acha@DRAVIDO.SOAR.CS.CMU.EDU

In article <1992Jul22.201448.13511@cs.ucla.edu> page@ficus.cs.ucla.edu (Thomas Page) writes about Lewis' 9.98 100m:

>   All were wind aided.  Powell had 4.4 m/s, more than twice allowable wind.
>   Even more amazing was Drechsler's 25-0 1/2 which was also wind aided.
>   Also, the meet was at 6,600 ft elevation; helps the sprinters and jumpers.

That is surprising. I would expect higher elevations to hamper sprinters --
the primary problem being low atmospheric oxygen. 

anurag