HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: dstein@oak.math.ucla.edu (David Stein)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.hockey
Subject: Re: Jagr/Ruzicka/Klima
Date: 10 Jan 93 03:05:23 GMT
Distribution: na
Organization: UCLA Mathematics Department

In article <Jan10.003549.40702@yuma.ACNS.ColoState.EDU> smith%sol.dnet@sirius.cira.colostate.edu writes:
 
>Maybe to be accurate
>in stereotyping European hockey players we should find out whether Klima, Jagr,
>Rosie, and the Statsnys are from Slovakia or Czechland.  

  Maybe the best would be not to stereotype. 

>I believe Slovakia is much more rural and under-developed than the Czech half.

  I'm not sure how would that influence the behavior of hockey players.
  May you enlighten me?
 
 - David

--
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Debil, from Bohemia, the shore of.
##################################
Newsgroups: rec.sport.hockey
From: pevans@sanjuan (Patricia Evans)
Subject: Re: Fight over the Oilers
Organization: University of Victoria, Victoria B.C. CANADA
Date: Tue, 12 Jan 93 23:08:33 GMT

In article <1993Jan11.191600.2199@alchemy.chem.utoronto.ca> golchowy@alchemy.chem.utoronto.ca (Gerald Olchowy) writes: [marked by G]
>In article <allan.726773093@st-lina> allan@cs.UAlberta.CA (Allan Sullivan) writes: [marked by A]
>
G>Pocklington could be saving the $20 million for building the
G>new arena...that money, plus preselling the private boxes (if 
G>people and Edmonton decide to buy them) will go along way to
G>financing the modern facility necessary to be competitive.

G>The city and Northlands are vampires sucking the Oilers dry with
G>a lousy lease arrangement with the Oilers.

Northlands maybe, not the city. They're not the same thing, as the city
found out a while back when they had a dispute with Northlands. The
people in charge of Edmonton Northlands are very tough negotiators,
and they don't want to renegotiate the Oilers' long-term contract with them.
Perhaps for the good of the team they should, but the good of the team
isn't necessarily their concern. Pocklington's talk about building a new
arena has sounded a lot like a bluff to try to convince them to give
him a better deal.

A>>Northlands is an OK building... It needs more private boxes, for sure,
A>>but it does have a good seating capacity, and the ice itself is probably
A>>the best in the league. A better deal for the francise on concessions/parking
A>>might help a little.
>
G>Northlands is obsolete as a modern facility...there isn't enough
G>parking, nor to the Oilers get enough of the concession or parking
G>revenue...   
>

Is that how you decide what makes a facility modern, Gerald... Parking
spaces? It's a large enough building and has an excellent ice surface, 
but somehow you don't think it's modern due to it not having what you
consider to be enough parking spaces. Strange how people in Edmonton don't
seem to mind this much -- maybe it's because of the rapid rail transit
that stops right beside the Coliseum. Pocklington's proposed new arena
would, if built, be on the outskirts of town and inaccessible except by car.

Aside from only having a few private boxes, the only thing not modern
about Northlands is the antiquated deal they have with the Oilers, which
should be a warning to all other teams not to sign similar long-term leases.
It's not the facility that has problems, it's the management.

Patricia Evans       (former Edmonton resident)
pevans@sanjuan.uvic.ca
Newsgroups: rec.sport.hockey
From: vv1@dgp.toronto.edu (Marc J. Ouellette)
Subject: Central Ontario Women's Hockey League - 1993 01 10
Summary: League standings
Keywords: Women's hockey
Date: 12 Jan 93 16:44:30 GMT

Here are the COWHL standings, as of today.  I can post these on a regular
basis.  The COWHL is one of the best women's hockey leagues in the world,
as many of the players from Canada's WC Gold winning team play in it.
Comments and suggestions are welcomed.  - Marc


                      Central Ontario Women's Hockey League
Overall standings
Team                      GP  W  L  T  GF  GA PIM PTS Last 5  Home Away  Streak
Toronto Aeros             14  9  3  2  44  22 140 20  3-1-1  6-0-1 3-3-1 4NL
Guelph Eagles             15  6  7  2  27  31 120 14  2-3-0  4-2-1 2-5-1 1W
Scarborough Firefighters  16  5  7  4  31  39 185 14  1-3-1  2-3-2 3-4-2 1L
Scarborough Sting         15  4  7  4  21  31  94 12  2-3-0  2-5-2 2-2-2 1W

Last week's results:

January 6th, 1993 - Scarborough Sting 3 at Scarborough Firefighters 2

  First Period - No scoring

  Second Period

  1. Sting        -  0:17 Robinson (Saunders) (SH)
  2. Firefighters -  4:51 Nystrom (Tremills)
  3. Firefighters -  5:06 Etele (Nystrom)
  4. Sting        -  8:29 Rohrer (PP)
  5. Sting        - 10:51 Mansholt (Williamson, Taylor) (PP)

  Third Period - No scoring

This week's games:
Tuesday   January 12 Aeros at Guelph
Wednesday January 13 Guelph at Firefighters
Sunday    January 17 Firefighters at Aeros
Sunday    January 17 Guelph at Sting

                                 Top 10 scorers

Legend: #  = Player Number Pos= Position GP = Games Played G = Goals
        A  = Assists  PTS= Total Points  PIM= Penalties in Minutes
Player                  Team # Pos GP  G  A PTS PIM
Nystrom, Karen            SF 15 RW 14 11  7  18  12 *
Sunohara, Vicky           SF  6  C 13  5  8  13   8 +
Boyd, Stephanie           TA 22  C 14  5  8  13  17
Ginzel, Heather           TA 90 LW 14  5  6  11   0 *+
Cryderman, Cindy          GE  2  F 15  3  8  11  24
James, Angela             TA  8  F 11  8  2  10  31 *+
Duval, Liz                GE 22  F 14  8  2  10  10
Page, Margot              TA 18  F 12  4  6  10  10 *+
Cooper, Carol             GE  8  D 13  1  9  10   4
Pettersen, Jenny          GE 11  F 14  1  9  10  14
Trapp, Rhonda             TA 27  F 13  3  6   9  14

 * 1992 Team Canada members       + 1990 Team Canada members

Marc
--
Marc J. Ouellette  (vv1@dgp.toronto.edu)         Les Canadiens sont l`a!
"Angry words won't stop the fight, two wrongs don't make it right" - U2
Newsgroups: rec.sport.hockey
From: cmp@fig.citib.com (Craig M. Plunkett)
Subject: ice time in NYC
Originator: cmp@owl
Keywords: practice,amateur
Organization: Citibank IBISM
Date: Tue, 12 Jan 1993 19:01:19 GMT


I play in the intermediate level of Hockey North America in the Westchester league.  I'm looking for an open skate in the NYC area in the weekday evenings. Normally, I play left wing, but will skate at any position.  Any other hackers out there?

-Craig
Newsgroups: rec.sport.hockey
From: kwfrackl@undergrad.math.waterloo.edu (Kirby)
Subject: Leafs Terry Chitaroni
Organization: University of Waterloo
Date: Mon, 4 Jan 1993 16:31:19 GMT


Does anyone know of the status of Terry Chitaroni?  Last heard, he was
playing with the St.JOhns Leafs.  Is this still the case?  Will he be
brought up in the near future?  Any info will greatly be appreciated.


============================ the SCOOP-meister ===============================
 "My agent says I can no longer post to this news group unless I get 50
  million and the right to post where and when I want.  WAAAAAAAAAAA!!!"
			- Eric Lindros (if he were to have Usenet access)
================== kwfrackleton@descartes.waterloo.edu =======================
From: kayleigh@access.digex.com (Steve Gallichio)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.hockey
Subject: Hiding players (was Re: leafs (PLAYOFFS and EXPANSION DRAFT))
Date: 12 Jan 1993 17:49:47 GMT
Organization: Express Access Online Communications, Greenbelt, MD USA
NNTP-Posting-Host: access.digex.com


[discussion of hiding other teams players on a roster deleted]

There's some reasonable speculation that Pittsburgh and Hartford tried to
do that exact same thing this past season. After Eddie (The Whale Killer)
Johnston was fired, it trickled out that Craig Patrick and Johnston had
worked out a deal where Pietrangelo would be returned to the Pens after
the expansion draft after coming to Hartford in March for the very well
travelled Future Considerations. Well, EJ got s-canned, Brian Burke wanted
to keep Pietrangelo, and Patrick really didn't have much of a leg to stand
on since he was trying to get the league to back up a deal that was illegal
in the first place. I think Pittsburgh was awarded a draft pick (possibly
a 3rd or 4th) after the fact.

BTW: PLEASE CUT DOWN ON THE AMOUNT OF ARTICLES YOU INCLUDE WHEN REPLYING!!!
     INCLUDING AN ENTIRE ARTICLE, SIGNATURE AND ALL, OR INCLUDING ALL ARTICLES
     INCLUDED BY AN ARTICLE IS A WASTE OF BANDWIDTH, DISK SPACE, AND IS RUDE
     AND INCONSIDERATE TO PEOPLE WHO HAVE BETTER THINGS TO DO THAN TO SEE
     AN ENTIRE ARTICLE REPRINTED FOUR TIMES IN ONE DAY!

-Steve Gallichio (A real live Hartford Whalers season ticket holder) (ooh-aah)
-steveg@cadkey.com
Newsgroups: rec.sport.hockey
From: Ray_Lau@mindlink.bc.ca (Ray Lau)
Subject: Re: Sakic and Sundin injury status??y
Organization: MIND LINK! - British Columbia, Canada
Date: Wed, 6 Jan 1993 08:54:50 GMT

Sakic should be out for 3 weeks,Sundin for 1 week,but I heard he got an
assist tonight,so he must healthy.

Newsgroups: rec.sport.hockey
From: michael.odonnell@mail.trincoll.edu (Michael O'Donnell)
Subject: Re: Whaddya mean Bossy never got 50 in 50!
Followup-To: rec.sport.hockey
Organization: Trinity College
Date: Fri, 8 Jan 1993 18:21:32 GMT

In article <qsg2wB2w165w@student.business.uwo.ca>,
s4lawren@student.business.uwo.ca (Stephen Lawrence) wrote:
> 
>         Bossy couldn't shoot his way out of a wet paper bag and Maurice 
> couldn't carry my jockstrap!  Whine, Mario and Brett are the only ones to 
> get 50 in 50 and probably will hold the record for a while.

Stephen, are you joking about the 50 in 50 thing, or are you unaware of any
stats before 1986?

michael.odonnell@mail.trincoll.edu
Newsgroups: rec.sport.hockey
From: gld@cunixb.cc.columbia.edu (Gary L Dare)
Subject: Stan Fischler, 1/9
Reply-To: gld@cunixb.cc.columbia.edu (Gary L Dare)
Organization: The Bates Motel
Date: Sun, 10 Jan 1993 04:47:54 GMT


They've been moving channels around in my cable system, but I found
SCNY again today ...

* Ray Bourque is steamed up at Bruins management and wants out. (!)
A possible deal would be a package featuring Bourque for a package
featuring Trevor Linden.

* Another trade rumour: Patrick Roy and Eric Desjardins for Luc
Robitaille and Kelly Hrudy.

* Paramount/MSG exec Stanley Jaffe may have been behind Roger
Neilsen's firing, as Neil Smith had been away in Europe for
two weeks ...


gld
--
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Je me souviens ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Gary L. Dare
> gld@cunixb.cc.columbia.EDU 		President Bush should
> gld@cunixc.BITNET			pardon Amy Fisher NOW!
Newsgroups: rec.sport.hockey
From: kmews@minnie.imd.nrc.ca
Subject: Re: Leafs Terry Chitaroni
Organization: NRC-Institute for Marine Dynamics
Date: Mon, 4 Jan 1993 23:26:29 GMT

In article <C0C8KA.GI0@undergrad.math.waterloo.edu>, kwfrackl@undergrad.math.waterloo.edu (Kirby) writes:
> 
> Does anyone know of the status of Terry Chitaroni?  Last heard, he was
> playing with the St.JOhns Leafs.  Is this still the case?  Will he be
> brought up in the near future?  Any info will greatly be appreciated.

Chitaroni is still here with the St. John's Leafs. He doesn't dress most
games here so it is unlikely that he will be called up.

KM
From: larry@spuds.solbourne.COM (Larry Keryc)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.hockey
Subject: Re: Roger Nielson gets axed
Date: 6 Jan 93 14:41:40 GMT
Distribution: na
Organization: Solbourne Computer Inc - NYC Metro
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1 PL6]

Gary L Dare (gld@cunixb.cc.columbia.edu) wrote:
: 
: Ron Smith is the interim coach "for the remainder of the season" ...
: that means that no permanent replacement for Roger will be made, and
: unless Ron Smith can pull off a miracle then Rangers fans can write
: off this season ...

Hmmmm...  Why does a miracle have to be performed Gary?  This is pretty
much the same team that won the Presidents Trophy one year ago.  There
is weakness on defense but all in all this IS a talented team that is
severely underachieving right now.

I remember a team last year that had a tough regular season and was 
struggling to maintain 4th place as late as 1 week remaining in the 
season.  Look what happened to them!

Neilson made a terrible move in last years playoffs by changing from
the run and gun offensive style that carried the Rangers in the regular
season to the clutching, grabbing, "gooning" tactics in the playoffs.
The Rangers looked confused then and still do now.

The Washington loss last week may have sealed the fate for Neilson.
They played a great 2 periods and just fell back and iced the puck in
the third period giving up 2 goals and then losing in OT.  They dictated
the game to the Caps and then gave it right back by falling into a
defensive shell.  Neilson's style with severe negative results.

What Ron Smith has to do is get the team on the same page again in terms
of roles and style of play.  Give him until February for that.  At that
point the level of intensity needs to increase as we gear up towards
April.  He needs to get them to the dance and let the guys with the
rings take the team to the level it needs to be at in April and May.

Maybe the coaching change was needed right now.  But ultimately the
rsponsibility for performance falls on each individual player.

No miracles Gary.  Just peak performance in April and May.

See ya!

Larry
-- 
Larry Keryc                    |  UUCP:     ..!uunet!solbourne!larry
Senior Systems Engineer        |  Internet: larry@solbourne.com
Solbourne Computer, Inc        |  Fax:      (201) 843-4265
Park 80 West Plaza 2 Suite 200 |  Voice:    (201) 843-7441
Saddle Brook, NJ 07662         |  Voice:    (212) 679-7830
Newsgroups: rec.sport.hockey
From: etxonss@ufsa.ericsson.se (Staffan Axelsson)
Subject: WJHC: New Records
Organization: Ericsson Telecom, Stockholm, Sweden
Date: Tue, 5 Jan 1993 16:06:40 GMT


 Some new records set in this WJHC:
 ==================================

 New records indicated by (*). 

 Most Goals scored by a team in a WJHC game:

 21  Czechoslovakia beat Austria 21-4, 1981 in West Germany
 20  Sweden beat Japan 20-1, 1993 in Sweden				(*)
 19  Finland beat Switzerland 19-1, 1980 in Helsinki, Finland
 19  USSR beat Austria 19-1, 1981 in West Germany
 19  USA beat Norway 19-1, 1991 in Canada


 Most Goals scored by individual player during a WJHC:

 13  Markus Naslund, SWE, 1993 in Sweden				(*)
 12  Vladimir Ruzicka, CZE, 1983 in Leningrad
 12  Pavel Bure, USSR, 1991 in Canada
 4 tied with 11


 Most Assists by individual player during a WJHC:

 24  Peter Forsberg, SWE, 1993 in Sweden				(*)
 14  Esa Keskinen, FIN, 1985 in Finland
 14  Doug Weight, USA, 1991 in Canada
 13  Raimo Helminen, FIN, 1984 in Sweden
 13  Jaromir Jagr, CZE, 1990 in Finland


 Most Points scored by individual player during a WJHC:

 31  Peter Forsberg, SWE (7+24), 1993 in Sweden				(*)
 24  Raimo Helminen, FIN (11+13), 1984 in Sweden
 23  Markus Naslund, SWE (13+10), 1993 in Sweden			(*)
 21  Robert Reichel, CZE (11+10), 1990 in Finland
 20  Vladimir Ruzicka, CZE (12+8), 1983 in Leningrad


 Most Points scored by a line during a WJHC:

 69  Markus Naslund-Peter Forsberg-Niklas Sundstrom, SWE, 1993 in Sweden (*)
 52  Esa Keskinen-Mikko Makela-Esa Tikkanen, FIN (24+28), 1985 in Finland
 50  Robert Reichel-Jaromir Jagr-Robert Holik, CZE (22+28), 1990 in Finland
 47  Esa Keskinen-Raimo Helminen-Esa Tikkanen, FIN (23+24), 1984 in Sweden
 46  Raimo Summanen-Petri Skriko-Risto Jalo, FIN (22+24), 1982 in USA
 41  Mike Modano-Jeremy Roenick-John Leclair, USA (20+21), 1989 in Anchorage


 All time Assist leaders:

 32  Peter Forsberg, SWE, 1992-93					(*)
 22  Esa Keskinen, FIN, 1984-85
 22  Robert Reichel, CZE, 1988-90
 19  Eric Lindros, CAN, 1990-92
 18  Raimo Helminen, FIN, 1983-84
 18  Esa Tikkanen, FIN, 1983-85


 All time Point leaders:

 42  Peter Forsberg, SWE (10+32), 1992-93				(*)
 40  Robert Reichel, CZE (18+22), 1988-90
 39  Pavel Bure, USSR (27+12), 1989-91

--
 ((\\  //| Staffan Axelsson            
  \\  //|| etxonss@ufsa.ericsson.se    
\\_))//-|| contact for Swedish hockey  
Newsgroups: rec.sport.hockey
From: mccubbin@connext.ucs.sfu.ca (Bruce McCubbin)
Subject: Re: All-Star selection a joke
Organization: Simon Fraser University, Burnaby, B.C., Canada
Date: Wed, 13 Jan 1993 05:00:26 GMT

In article <3945@mdavcr.mda.ca> hp@mdavcr.mda.ca (Hossein Parandeh) writes:
> Pavel Bure is the only Canuck on the All-Star team. Vancouver is 2nd overall
> in standings and believe me it's not a one man show. How about captain Kirk
> and all the other contributers? Is Casey of N. Stars, picked by the coaches,
> better than Kirk McLean?
 
If you subtract Bure's points total (goals and assists) from the team's
Goals For total, the team still comes out on the plus side.  It's looks to
me like the Canucks are more of a team effort than anything else in the NHL.
I'm sure they'll be happy to have the depth come All Star, er, Playoff time.
 
Bruce
Newsgroups: rec.sport.hockey
From: smith@phobos.cira.colostate.edu
Subject: Norris tops?
Date: Tue, 12 Jan 1993 16:05:34 GMT
Reply-To: smith%sol.dnet@sirius.cira.colostate.edu
Organization: Colorado State Univ, CIRA

A real jam up is shaping up in the Norris. The Hawks, Wings and Stars are
all looking over their shoulders at the Blues and Leafs. All of this
points more and more to Norris as the toughest division in the NHL at the
moment replacing the Patrick. 

The Smythe has two weak sisters in Edmonton and San Jose.
The Patrick has Pittsburgh and everyone else.
The Adams has Hartford and Ottawa.
In the Norris only the Lightning is starting to lose its thunder (sorry).

Any opinions?

Smitty
smith%phobos.dnet@sirius.cira.colostate.edu
From: gln@cs.arizona.edu (Gary L. Newell)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.hockey
Subject: Re: Hockey Fights
Date: 11 Jan 93 22:01:15 GMT
Organization: U of Arizona CS Dept, Tucson

In article <6RX1wB3w165w@student.business.uwo.ca>, s4lawren@student.business.uwo.ca (Stephen Lawrence) writes:
>         Tape 2 was "Vinatage Bruin Fights" with a lot of stuff from the 
> 1970 - 75 period, O'Reilly is in at least half of these getting his head 
> kicked in.  There is also the famous Carol Vadnais/Terry O'Reilly foray 
> into the stands in MSG in which a fan is held down, his shoe removed and 
> used as a blunt object with which to strike him with.


 Umm... I haven't seen anyone correct this so I must assume that I was wrong,
but I could swear that this little interaction occured when Vadnais was
no longer a Bruin. If memory serves Mike Milbury used the shoe on the guy,
Peter McNab was in the stands as well, I can't remember who else was
up there.... anyway - am I right? Wasn't ol Carol out of Boston for some
time before this happened?



			gln




Newsgroups: rec.sport.hockey
From: hunt7551@mach1.wlu.ca (len hunt 9208 U)
Subject: Re: Whaddya mean Bossy never got 50 in 50!
Organization: Wilfrid Laurier University
Date: Fri, 8 Jan 1993 21:55:35 GMT

In article <C0IJK5.L1B@cs.mcgill.ca> shayne@cs.mcgill.ca (Lydia Mancini) writes:
>[Sorry, I accidentally deleted, the article's poster]
>
>>>Mike Bossy did in fact score 50 in 50.  He was the first player to match
>>>Maurice Richard's "unattainable" feat.  Made HUGE headlines everywhere.
>>>Since Wayne and Mario and Brett and everyone else started achieving 50 in 50,
>>>the mark just doesn't have the same kind of status.
>
>My memory is a little foggy on this, but didn't he do that as a rookie?
>
>-- Lydia
>-- 
> (==)(==)(==)(==)(==)(==)(==)(==)(==)(==)(==)(==)(==)(==)(==)(==)(==)(==)(==)
>  Lydia Mancini       | "Oh drat these computers are so naughty and so 
>  shayne@cs.mcgill.ca |  complex.  I could pinch them." 
>  McGill University   |  -- Marvin The Martian from Loony Tunes

No Mike Bossy did not score 50 goals in 50 games as a rookie.  He did,
however, break the rookie goal scoring record by tallying 53 goals on the
year.  This record is still intact to this day.  Bossy later scored 50 goals
in 50 games, and finished with 68 or 69 goals on the season.  His play after
the first 50 games was slightly disappointing since Phil Esposito's goal
record of 76 was within his sights.

Len Hunt

Newsgroups: rec.sport.hockey
From: dstein@oak.math.ucla.edu (David Stein)
Subject: Re: WJHC: Czechoslovakia-Canada
Organization: UCLA Mathematics Department
Date: Wed, 6 Jan 93 15:32:49 GMT

Staffan Axelsson writes:
 
> 1993 World Junior Hockey Championships Results, January 4:
> ==========================================================
>
> The game was broadcasted on Swedish TV so just a small game report.
> 
> CZECHOSLOVAKIA - CANADA 7-4 (2-1,1-2,4-1)
>
> Canada had already won the gold prior to this game so that might explain
> why Canada probably played their worst game of the tournament. Still,

  This is the second time in a row that Czechoslovakia have beaten the
overall winner of the WJHC, I believe.  Last year the beat the CIS, and
now Canada.  Motivation must be a major factor, the first match being 
against the Russians, the second game being reportedly the last game 
played as "Czechoslovakia".  Nice to hear they won!

  Thanks Staffan for all the detailed info.  I'm looking forward to your
future reports on the Czech Republic/Czech Lands/Bohemia/Bohemia&Moravia/
Bohemia&Moravia&Silezia.  Pick your name!

 - David

--
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
I'm not a native speaker of English, so I'm not sure what I wrote.
Flames will be ignored unless you post them in perfect Czech.
================================ - David (the metamathician) - ===
Newsgroups: rec.sport.hockey
From: patrick@rio-grande.is.rice.edu (Patrick L Humphrey)
Subject: Re: puck in wrong net?
Organization: Rice University, Houston, Texas
	<1993Jan8.205801.20250@berlioz.nsc.com>
	<1993Jan8.215319.27236@walter.bellcore.com>
Distribution: na
Date: Sat, 9 Jan 1993 01:45:45 GMT

On Fri, 8 Jan 93 21:53:19 GMT, bc@egret.NoSubdomain.NoDomain (Bill Cooney) said:

>I rememeber the Islanders were playing to Colorado Rockies and a delayed
>penalty was called on the Isles, a Rockie sent a pass to the middle of the 
>Isles blue line.  However no Rockie was there and the puck went into the
>Rockies open net (Since there was that delayed penalty called and the
>goaltender was pulled for the extra skater).

>Trivia Question??

>Anyone know who the guy was who was credited with the Islander goal??

That was goalie Billy Smith, wasn't it?  He was the last Islander to touch
the puck...

--