From: homebrew@lupulus.ssc.gov
Subject: HOMEBREW Digest #983
Organization: The Internet
Date: Mon, 5 Oct 1992 07:40:55 GMT


HOMEBREW Digest #983		             Mon 05 October 1992


	FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
		Rob Gardner, Digest Coordinator


Contents:
  A Different Perspective (chris campanelli)
  Draught System: CO2 connection (Christopher Nissen)
  chocolate malt v. chocolate (Sean J. Caron)
  RE: Headaches (Karl F. Bloss)
  chocolate malt v. chocolate (Sean J. Caron)
  Tyramine in beer  (Geoff Burd)
  Apple Cider (Charles_Spiteri.wbst129)
  beer stamps (gaspar)
  malt question (Russ Gelinas)
  Pitching Yeast, Orange Peels ("Knight,Jonathan G")
  Cold Break (John Williams)
  Sparge Temp (Thomas D. Feller)
  maple syrup stout (Robert E Nielsen)
  re:BOS & caustic comments (jim busch)
  using chocolate (james feldman)
  chocolate malt vs chocolate (marc julian)
  STOPPING SECONDARY FERMENTATION (MICHAEL BLAIR 6100 SEC 10)
  Re: Apple Cider (Garrett Hildebrand)
  Dormant Yeast?  No problem. (HULTINP)
  Request for Macintosh recipe formulator. ("C. Lyons")
  Ren & Stimpy (Brian Bliss)
  Re: Chocolate Malt vs. Chocolate (Shannon Posniewski)
  Herbs other than Hops (HULTINP)
  Re: Dusseldorf Altbier ("Roger Deschner")
  TRUB 4 CONTEST (KLIGERMAN)
  Exploding bottle :=( ("Spencer W. Thomas")


Send articles for __publication__ to homebrew@hpfcmi.fc.hp.com
  (Articles are published in the order they are received.)
Send UNSUBSCRIBE and all other requests, ie, address change, etc.,
  to homebrew-request@hpfcmi.fc.hp.com
Archives are available via anonymous ftp from sierra.stanford.edu.
    (Those without ftp access may retrieve files via mail from
    listserv@sierra.stanford.edu. Send HELP as the body of a
    message to that address to receive listserver instructions.)
**Please do not send me requests for back issues!**
*********(They will be silenty discarded!)*********
**For Cat's Meow information, send mail to lutzen@novell.physics.umr.edu**

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Fri, 2 Oct 92 00:59 CDT
From: akcs.chrisc@vpnet.chi.il.us (chris campanelli)
Subject: A Different Perspective

The following article appeared in the Daily Herald, October 1, 1992.
Reprinted without permission.

Brewers Preserve Special Niche for Beer
By Olivia Wu, Daily Herald Food Editor

Beer is a grain preserve.  it is, or used to be, a way to store barley
and drink of its goodness throughout the year.

Even though you might not be interested in the feature story on
home-brewing, it is very much a food story, a story about conserving the
harvest.  It's something most of us can relate to.  Maybe you made
strawberry jam once or froze ron or stood over caldrons of bottled tomato
sauce.  Perhaps you are on generation removed.  You remember the smell
and temperature of the kitchen as your mother - OK, your grandmother -
put up food.

Beer, however, doesn't immediately stir sympathetic remembrances.  It's
alcohol.  It's a man's drink.  It's the root of evil behaviour.  It isn't
food, you say.

On the contrary, it is - and in its most basic sense.  Originally, to
conserve barley after harvest, and more importantly, to extract its
nutritional content, the grains were sprouted.  The earliest brewers took
the most life-giving of foods in its utmost nutritional moment (the
sprouted seed) and tried to conserve it through the winter.  The process
extended a grain's ability to nurture.

This is a food story - and more.  It's a story of science, agriculture
and human creativity.

Many of our most basic foods were created in this way including bread,
cheese, vinegar, wine, soy sauce and miso.  A type of fermentation was
encouraged to stretch the keeping quality and taste of these foods.

Beer, however, doesn't spring to mind as one of these.  On the contrary,
I tend to profile beer as an alcoholic, high calorie, filling, tasteless
and not very expensive drink which I can do without for my good health.

Then I realize my reaction is a response to numbing overabundance.  It is
the response of a woman who never goes hungry, fights calories, doesn't
lack nutrition and whose taste has been killed by mass-produced beer.
She forgets that this drink originally is fruited by the earth.

I usually ignore Oktoberfests.  I think of them as culturally foreign.
They seem male, European and they flout alcohol.  But this year, I
realize Oktoberfest is a harvest festival, a celebration of earth,
sustenance, human ingenuity and human merriment.

I think how far we've traveled, and not in the good sense of the word.
Modern inventions have transformed the making of this food and many of
our foods by mechanical shortcuts.  The process sucks out the very
nutrients it originally preserved.  It also robs us of our food's
original culture - of time, place and feeling.  Not to mention the
culture of celebration and of earthy, intense taste.

All around us, however, are small producers and farmers who have
engineered a resurgence of foods that are appropriate to time, place and
nourishment.  The make wines, cheese and bread in small ways, honest to
the season and honest to their abilities.  And sprinkled amongst us are
folks who in their basements and kitchens measure the temperature of
water, mix it with grain and yeast, bottle and wait.

Homebrewers, I like to think, touch real food.  Then understand
Oktoberfest.

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 2 Oct 92 07:25:06 EDT
From: can@zaphod.mitre.org (Christopher Nissen)
Subject: Draught System: CO2 connection

While we're trading little hints about kegging systems (re:Bob Jones) I have
found a method that takes some of the bother out of maintaining a draught
system.  I have one old fridge that I use for lagering and storing kegs for
dispensing.  With all the shelves removed, it can hold either four 5 gal
kegs or 3 kegs and a 6 gal PC carboy.  The twist is, instead of having holes
in the side for the CO2 lines or worse yet, storing the CO2 bottle inside, I
simply carefully carbonate each keg once at the appropriate time (ie. after
conditioning) and then leave them in the fridge without a CO2 connection.
This removes the requirement for a multi-port manifold and the associated check
valves (both of which I have but have since stopped using).  I simply
maintain a desired carbonation/delivery pressure by periodically re-connecting
the CO2 line to each keg.  The key to having this system work, is to know
how many volumes of CO2 you are originally putting into each keg AND to
make sure it is actually dissolved.  The method of dissolving the CO2 has
been described before either in HBD or in the newsgroup, but basically
consists of methodically inverting the keg SEVERAL times when originally
introducing the CO2.  I started using this method after I lost my first bottle
of CO2 to the atmosphere thanks to a loose connection on the regulator output.
Not only did this waste the CO2, but stirred up 5 gal of ale that required an
additional couple of days to settle back down.  Thus, if you don't leave the
CO2 bottle connected 24 hrs a day, you avoid several problems.

I thank Bob for sharing his pressure drop secret with us since I am also
experiencing fantastic heads but short-lived carbonation in the glass.


------------------------------

Date: Fri, 2 Oct 92 09:11:58 EDT
From: Sean J. Caron <CARONS@TBOSCH.dnet.ge.com>
Subject: chocolate malt v. chocolate


Marc Julian asks about chocolate malt and chocolate ...

I beli

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 2 Oct 92 09:40:39 -0400
From: blosskf@ttown.apci.com (Karl F. Bloss)
Subject: RE: Headaches

I find that I get the worst headaches from AB or other run-of-the-mill
commercial stuff, but _not_ homebrew.  Also, when I was in Germany recently,
we really were pounding down good Rathsherren Pils in Hamburg and Uerign
Alt in Duesseldorf and I woke up feeling fine (just very hungry).  I wonder
if the Reinheitsgebot has something to do with this...

 -K

Bier her, Bier her, oder ich fall um.

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 2 Oct 92 10:14:40 EDT
From: Sean J. Caron <CARONS@TBOSCH.dnet.ge.com>
Subject: chocolate malt v. chocolate


marc julian asks about chocolate malt and chocolate ...

the term "chocolate" malt refers not to the malt's flavor, but its rich
brown color.

as for using chocolate in beer, go for it! I made a porter with ~4oz bakers
choclate which was fantastic! the chocolate was very apparent in the
aftertaste and also in the smell. it got rave reviews from my beer drinking
friends.

Some things to watch out for, though:

       chocolate does contain oils which are bad for head retention. I
       had this problem to a small degree - maybe some of the more
       knowledgeable beer gurus could tell us how to help this!

       bakers chocolate is very bitter. I backed off the hop rates a little
       to compensate for this - unfortuately, i don't have the recipe here
       at work, so i can't say how much

                            hope this helps!
                                  sean

------------------------------

Date: 	Fri, 2 Oct 1992 09:59:10 -0400
From: geoff@csi.on.ca (Geoff Burd)
Subject: Tyramine in beer

In HBD 979 Dennis J. Templeton writes (concerning headaches and beer):

> On the third hand, there is a very well established phenomenon of headaches
> due to a compound called Tyramine.  This is very often found in wine
> (particularly red) and affects only some individuals.  It seems to be
> related to the process involved in migraine headaches.  If your HB gives
> you a headache you might ask youself.. does red wine too?
>
> Actually, I can't recall if tyramine is commonly in beer. Anyone out there
> know?

My wife takes medication which makes her very sensitive to tyramine in food
and drink (the reaction is an extremely severe headache). To quote from a list
of dietary guidelines she was given:

"Tyramine is an amino acid. It is generally found in higher amounts in foods
that have been fermented, aged, pickled, or spoiled.  Foods which have been
stored a long time, overripe or not properly stored may have a higher tyramine
content.  Foods high in tyramine which should be avoided are: All
aged/ripened/matured cheeses, dried and fermented sausages, ... IMPORTED BEERS
AND NON-PASURIZED BEERS (use domestic brands of beer in small amounts) ...
meat and fish paste, pate, caviar, sauerkraut, YEAST EXTRACTS, BREWER'S YEAST,
 ... etc."

So not only is homebrew out, so are most of the foods that go well with it!
 ..Geoff.
-
 ---------+--------+--------+--------+--------+--------+--------+---------+-----
Geoffrey Burd   email:geoff@csi.on.ca   tel:(613) 592-5780   fax:(613) 592-0584
CARP Systems International, 600 Terry Fox Drive, Kanata, Ontario, CANADA K2L4B6

------------------------------

Date: 	Fri, 2 Oct 1992 07:35:16 PDT
From: Charles_Spiteri.wbst129@xerox.com
Subject: Apple Cider

I've just started brewing and have 3 batches under my belt.  After seeing the
hard cider recipe and finding a gallon of apple cider in the fridge I decided
to try it out.  After 5 days fermenting I decided to taste it.  It smells like
vinegar and really is lacking and sort of sweetness. I racked it to a secondary
and was wondering if there is anything I can do to save this batch ( ex: Add
sugar, honey ??).  Did anyone else try the recipe ?

1 gallon apple cider
1 can frozen apple juice concentrate
1 packet ale yeast ( 7 grams )

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 2 Oct 1992 10:16:12 -0500
From: gaspar@wuchem.wustl.edu
Subject: beer stamps

I would be happy to hear, off list, from fellow collectors of beer stamps -
United States Internal Revenue stamps used on kegs of beer from 1866 to
1954.  I am particularly interested in the history of St. Louis breweries
that used these stamps.
                                           Peter Gaspar
                                           Dept. Of Chyemistry
     (Chemistry, that is!)                 Washington University
                                           St. Louis, MO 63130

------------------------------

Date:    Fri, 2 Oct 1992 11:23:58 -0400 (EDT)
From: R_GELINAS@UNHH.UNH.EDU (Russ Gelinas)
Subject: malt question

   I've seen some people using Munich/Vienna malt interchangeably with
crystal. Crystal malt is already converted to sugar, and so doesn't need to
be mashed.  I thought that M/V malt was not converted, ie. it is like
pale ale or lager malt, and needs to be mashed.  In fact, I've seen
recipes where the majority of the grain bill is composed of M/V malt.
Obviously that's not just to add residual sugar, as is the case with
crystal or cara-pils.  What's the story, is Munich/Vienna malt like crystal
or like pale?

Russ

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 2 Oct 92 10:46:47 cdt
From: "Knight,Jonathan G" <KNIGHTJ@AC.GRIN.EDU>
Subject: Pitching Yeast, Orange Peels


Wishing to avail myself once again of the wisdom of the digest (the recent
thread on digestive difficulties notwithstanding), I ask two questions.

1) I made a starter for my next batch.  I would say that the starter in the
flask is now at "high krausen" which is when the directions on the (Wyeast)
package say to pitch.  However, I hadn't checked the weather reports and we've
got Indian Summer with a vengeance here over the weekend (80's) and I don't
want to heat up my non-air-conditioned house by brewing under such conditions,
nor do I think I want to be brewing when all the windows are open letting
airborne beasties in looking for sweet wort to jump into (I've gotten away
with it before but....).  So, it seems to me that I should be able to pitch
even after a few days without **worrying** -- that is, even if the
fermentation has slowed, there will be *more* yeast cells in the starter
solution, who will wake up, say "YUM, YUM" and start fornicating when dumped
into the beer, right?  Has anybody had difficulty starting fermentation after
waiting "too long" to pitch your starter solution?

2) I wanted to make a spiced ale involving orange peel.  Most people
posting on the digest have said to scrap off the white stuff.  This seems
like the hard way to me.  Can one not simply grate the outside of the peel
(the "zest") and dump this in?

Thanks in advance and happy imbibing.

Jonathan

(P.S. Of COURSE beer is good for you.  It's liquid bread, right?)

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 2 Oct 92 11:54:13 EDT
From: jwilliam@uhasun.hartford.edu (John Williams)
Subject: Cold Break

Brewers:

	I constructed a wort chiller from instructions found here in the digest
 and I have been following the discussion of cold break.  My question is this.
 If I use the wort chiller to chill the wort down to 70 deg and then pour it
into the fermentor, doesn't all the cold break get poured in too?  Also I
usually run the wort through a strainer and then run water over the hops caught
in the strainer.


	Thanks for the help.

						J Williams

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 2 Oct 92 10:16:49 PDT
From: thomasf@deschutes.ico.tek.com (Thomas D. Feller)
Subject: Sparge Temp

I tried to send this directly but it bounced so I am sending it
along to the HBD.

To: gsl2@midway.uchicago.edu
Subject: Sparging

I have been working this stuff out for away. With the help of the HBD and a
number of texts I think I can offer some insights.

First we need to define the difference between mash-out and sparging.

Mash-out is raising the grain temp to 165-175. This breaks down both the alpha
and beta enzymes, althrough at different rates but this is a longer story.
How important the mash-out is varys greatly depending on what and how you brew.

The sparge is rinsing the grain bed with hot water, again 165-175, this rinses
the sugars from the grains. The higher temp does a better job of rinsing the
sugers from the grains. Now because you do partial mashs and use extract
to provide most of your fermentables how efficient your mash/sparge procedure
in not of great importance. The goal of a partial mash is to add unfermentable
which will bring a greater complexity to your brews.

I used your same method many times for partial mashs with great results. The
problem is when you do all grain brews your need a 10-12 in grain bed to filter
the run-off. Without the grain bed filtering you will get very cloudly brews
with unwanted flavors because of boiling to the grain husks and solids. Again
this is generally not a problem with partial mashs because of the relatively
small amount of liquid the partial mash add to you total brewing volume.
In my case I use 1.3 qts per lbs of grain and then sparge with enough water to
bring my total brewing volume to 7 gal. It often takes 20 mins of recirulation
to get the run-off clear.

I hope this make some sense,

Tom Feller

P.S. I know that is post is way over simplified but I believe the general
idea is correct. Please feel free to correct any gross errors I made.



------------------------------

Date: Fri, 2 Oct 92 11:16:31 PST
From: Robert E Nielsen <Robert_E_Nielsen@ccm.hf.intel.com>
Subject: maple syrup stout


Maple Syrup Stout

6    lbs.  Dark Extract (syrup)
1.5  oz.   Bullion boiling hops
12   oz.   MacDonalds Pure Maple Syrup (No, not ronald mcdonald syrup! ;-) )
4    oz.   Choclate Malt
8    oz.   Crystal Malt
1    pkg   Whitbread Ale Yeast
3/4  cup   corn sugar (priming)

Place the grains in 150deg water, steep for 1/2 hour

Remove grains

Add extract syrup

Bring to boil, and add hops

I boiled for a full hour, adding the Maple syrup during the last five minutes of
the boil, like a finishing hop. I didn't want to boil off the maple aroma.

Ferment took place at about 65 degrees. this stuff fermented fast! I racked to
the secondary in 48 hours, and then bottled five days later.

Tasted good at bottling, although the maple flavor was masked by the "greenness"
of the beer. It took a few weeks to age, but then the sweetness and light flavor
of  the maple syrup was perfect.


------------------------------

Date: Fri, 2 Oct 92 14:24:37 EDT
From: jim busch <busch@daacdev1.stx.com>
Subject: re:BOS & caustic comments

In the last digest, Thomas D. Feller remarked about my
somewhat caustic post about Micah's unfortunate judging
experience.  Let me say that I really do think an error
was made when Micah had his mead rejudged, this should
never occur.

Now, I did say some rather nasty comments about GABF
judging as well.  I am not claiming to be the worlds
greatest judge, but I have traveled extensively and
tried to be very fair and meticulous about rating beers
based on accepted standards of origin to style and
noticable faults in the finished product.  Tom asks:
>Are you saying that there were beers entered in
 a cagegory which your rated a 4+ or 5 that finished out of the running
 while beers you rated a 1 or 2 finished 1st or 2nd? Did any of the
 beers which you rated highly finish 1st or 2nd?

Beers that were found to be excellent usually did place well
in the GABF competition.  On the other hand, a certain
Weizen Bock that even Mr. Papazian thought was excellent
did not even place third. I believe there is a combination
of problems in judging and in the process.  I'm not sure
the process can be changed without going the route of the
Oregon Brewers Festival, no judging.  OF course, it is
many of the brewers who want this judging to occur, mostly
for well intentioned advertising.  So, it would seem that
in the AHA and in the GABF competition, the skills of the
judges must be unquestionable.  Hopefully, this is a
reflection on the newness of our craft beer industry.  As
we brewers become more educated and experienced, this type
of error should be reduced to a non-issue.  I certainly
hope so.

Jim Busch
busch@daacdev1.stx.com


------------------------------

Date: Fri, 2 Oct 92 14:10:55 -0600
From: feldman@hal9k.cxo.dec.com (james feldman)
Subject: using chocolate

In reference to...

From: marc julian <CMSMARC@uga.cc.uga.edu>
Subject:      chocolate malt vs chocolate

>My homebrew supplier stated that the use of regular chocolate
>makes the beer quite cloudy and that chocolate malt should be used
>instead.  True - False

My first batch is the Mocha Java Stout from cat's meow.  I used 4 oz of
unsweetened chocolate.  It's still in the carboy (almost three weeks of
fermentation).  It's very dark, but I wouldn't call it cloudy.  Most of the
particulate matter seemed to have settled out in the primary.  What's dropping
out now, seems to be yeast related.

jimf (newbie)

------------------------------

Date: 02 Oct 1992 14:38:09 -0600 (MDT)
From: MICHAEL BLAIR 6100 SEC 10 <MBLAIR@cudnvr.denver.colorado.edu>
Subject: STOPPING SECONDARY FERMENTATION

This is my first time responding to anyone out there in home
brewing.  If I sent it right I'll crack open a cold one.

Anyway, I have been making wines for eleven years now.  There
was a question regarding bottling cider and the possible
disastrous consequences of a secondary fermentation.  Once upon a
time I made a Zinfandel wine which had a secondary fermentation
and blew most of my corks across the room.  The surviving bottles
were similar to Cold Duck.  Anyway, I now religously us 1/2
teaspoon of Potassium sorbate per gallon of hooch at bottling
time.  This prevents yeast from budding, i.e. it will inhibit
renewed fermentation.  IT WILL NOT STOP ACTIVE FERMENTATION.

The only way I know to HALT fermentation is by pasteurization.

Potassium sorbate is commonly found in wine making supply shops
and is usually called "stabilizer".  They try not to make it to
hard for those of us who savor the flavor of our brew.

Now I have a question for the network;
I have a rhubarb wine which is ready to be bottled.  The recipe I
used has left me with a liquid which is in desperate need of
sweetening.  Anybody have any successful sweeteners besides
granulated sugar?  Thankx,
Michael Blair (Univ. Colo.-Denver)

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 2 Oct 92 09:51:20 PDT
From: mdcsc!gdh@uunet.UU.NET (Garrett Hildebrand)
Subject: Re: Apple Cider

In HBD #982 (Oct 02 92), Andy Kurtz remarks upon a recipie for Cider I
sent in:
>
>Although I'm sure that Garrett's method will produce good cider (this
is

Please note, for the record, that I did not invent this one, though I
am unable to recall the book or the author I got the basic ideas from.

>how my father's been making it for years and years), I'm curious if we
>might not be able to apply some homebrewing techniques to
cider-making.
> Can, for instance, cider be bottled? I know that there are examples
of
>bottled cider in England (taste-profiles, anyone?).  How would one
>control carbonation and/or secondary fermentations? Hopped cider?
>
>just some thoughts...
>
>andy

These are good thoughts. As a matter of fact, I am rather partial to
Blackthorn's Dry Cider, which is English and is quite clean and crisp
tasting; not as sweet as this recipie I use has been turning out. I
have been experimenting with longer fermenting times, but it is not
even close.

So, yes, by all means, let's experiment! Uh, one thing: hopped cider?
Don't know!

Garrett

------------------------------

Date:    Fri, 2 Oct 1992 16:59 EDT
From: HULTINP@QUCDN.QueensU.CA
Subject: Dormant Yeast?  No problem.

The comment about long aging in the secondary leading to dormant yeast
(HBD #981 and before)  has excited some discussion.  I routinely age my
ales (both Wyeast Whitbread and earlier dry yeasts) in the carboy
for 3-4 weeks before bottling, and have never had any problem establishing
good condition within 1 week of bottling.  As reported, fermentation is
essentially stopped at this time.  Why the difference?
                                        Phil Hultin

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 2 Oct 92 16:37 EDT
From: "C. Lyons" <LYONS@adc1.adc.ray.com>
Subject: Request for Macintosh recipe formulator.

   I am looking for a beer recipe formulator for the Macintosh to
assist me in creating recipes.  I have tried Chris Campanelli's
BRF routine and like it, but am looking for a similar product for
the mac.  Chris has told me that their is a Hypercard routine
called Beer Stacks that can be obtained at the mthvax archives or
through the Maltose Falcons BBS (818-342-0530).  Unfortunately I
am unable to use either of these means.  If anyone has a copy of
Beer Stacks, or similar mac software, I would gladly send you a
SASE and diskette.  After trying out Chris's IBM software I am
anxious to have such a formulator at home.  If you have an IBM
and haven't tried it out yet, you should.  Any help in getting me
a Mac version would be appreciated!

                                       ... Sincerely,
                                           Christopher Lyons
                                           LYONS@ADC1.ADC.RAY.COM

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 2 Oct 92 16:39:21 CDT
From: bliss@csrd.uiuc.edu (Brian Bliss)
Subject: Ren & Stimpy

The name of my latest batch of IPA came from Mr Ren himself:

      .    _  .     _____________
      |\_|/__/|    /             \
     / / \/ \  \  / Hoppy! Hoppy! \  < s/Happy/Hoppy
    /__|O||O|__ \ \   Joy! Joy!   /
   |/_ \_/\_/ _\ | \  ___________/
   | | (____) | ||  |/
   \/\___/\__/  // _/
   (_/         ||
    |  Real    ||\
     \  Beer   //_/
      \______//
     __|| __||
    (____(____)

and indeed, the active yeast and fresh hops contributed to a
flatulent aroma surpassed only by the pale ale from Joe's Brewery
here in Champaign.

bb

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 2 Oct 92 10:11:30 EDT
From: imagesys!shannon@uu.psi.com (Shannon Posniewski)
Subject: Re: Chocolate Malt vs. Chocolate


Personally, I never really thought chocolate malt as very "chocolatey"
tasting.  I think its name is a tribute to its color.  It's lighter than
black patent and is somewhat sweet.  When brewed with, it makes the beer
taste sort of nutty.

I've made one batch with chocolate.  We used a modified Elbro Nerkte
Brown Ale (from Papazian) and added 8 oz of unsweetened baker's chocolate
(in addition to other adjuncts such as dark brown sugar).  (I'll post/send
you the recipe if you'd like.)

We added the chocolate with the finishing hops.

Upon opening the fermenter for racking, we found large white cakes/flakes of
what smelled like chocolate floating on top.  Cocoa butter?  They were
VERY bitter, but this may have been due to the fact that they were sitting
in a hops bath for a couple weeks.

The beer _smelled_ really chocolately, but didn't taste like it.

That's my single data point for using chocolate in beer.

Shannon

------------------------------

Date:    Fri, 2 Oct 1992 19:45 EDT
From: HULTINP@QUCDN.QueensU.CA
Subject: Herbs other than Hops

There was a recent posting asking about other flavouring herbs for beer.
As you may have gathered from my other postings, I am interested in
historical brewing methods.  Here are some herbal suggestions from the
past.

>From the Paston Letters (Davis, Norman (ed.) "Paston Letters and Papers of
the 15th Century, Part II", Oxford: Clarendon Press; 1976, p 14
"Pur faire holsom drynk of ale, Recipe sauge, auence, rose maryn, tyme,
chopped right smal, and put this and a newe leyd hennes ey in a bage and
hange it in the barell.  Item, clowys, maces, and spikenard grounden and
put in a bagge, and hangen in the barell.  And nota that the ey of the
henne shal kepe the ale fro sourynge."

That is, sage, {I don't know this one: avence?}, rosemary, thyme, added to
ale {unhopped in this case} when laid down in barrel, with a fresh egg
{complete with shell}.  A second approach is cloves, mace, and spikenard
{I don't know the modern name for this offhand - it is still available
though} added in the same way.

>From William Harrison's "Description of Britain" (1575)  (Harrison, W.
"Elizabethan England", Furnivall, F.J. (ed.) London: Walter Scott Publ.,
1876, pp98-103.  This is an excellent description of the complete
process of brewing at this time, in a domestic setting, from the purchase
of malt to the final accounting of cost and yield.
The text is too long to reproduce, but it mentions addition of 1.2 oz.
of "arras" {again, offhand not translated} and 1/8 oz. of bayberries
powdered, to a total grain loading of 8 bushels malt and 1/2 bushel of
wheat meal, and 1/2 bushel of oats, into 80 gallons of mash water.  He
also mentions use of "long pepper", but does not like it so much.

In William Ellis' "The London and Country Brewer", London: Thomas Astley,
1744 (5th edition) {Available in the rare book library of U of Toronto}
He mentions as substitutes for hops, but explicitly does not recommend
use of seeds of wormwood, wild carrot seed {says it gives a "peach" flavour}
or horehound {which he says is at least "wholesome"}.  Later, he suggests
that if fermentation is slow, one should add ginger {deemed a "hot"
substance, and so able to increase rate of ferment. according to the
theory of the day}.  Again, later in the text he mentions that some
brewers add Coculus India Berry {??} which he says is "a violent poison",
and also the use of coriander seeds, to enhance the mouth feel of the
brew {I have tried this, it is quite satisfactory, perhaps 1-3 tbsp
finely powdered into the boil of a strong beer.}

This is all I can find easily on the subject.  Of interest is that
while in the mid 16 th cent., hops are a detested innovation, by 1575
Harrison takes them as essential, and by 1744 other herbs are decried
as contaminating the brew.  The other interesting note is that
while at the end of the 16 th cent. it is explicit that ALL malt should
be as pale as possible {to maximize nutritive quality}, by 1744
Amber, and Brown malts are considered a key ingredient in the finest
English beers.

I hope you all find this stuff useful and interesting.  I am sorry that
I cannot provide equivalent data on continental practices.  By the way,
unhopped ale is quite palatable, if perhaps a bit dull, and keeps for
at least a couple of months under modern storage conditions.

                                       Phil Hultin.

------------------------------

Date: 3 October 1992 13:01:31 CDT
From: "Roger Deschner" <U52983@UICVM.UIC.EDU>
Subject: Re: Dusseldorf Altbier

Ah, all this talk of the wonderful Altbiers of Dusseldorf is truly making
me thirsty. But alas, this is a thirst which cannot be quenched in the
United States. I might have to cash in on one of those bargain
transatlantic air fares being offered this autumn. Or better yet, just
make it at home.

The best reference for this style is Michael Jackson's Pocket Guide to
Beer. I commend the Dusseldorf section to everyone, ESPECIALLY to those
who might be revising the AHA contest guidelines, or judging this
category in a contest. Jackson is very specific - gravity 12 plato
(1.048), Spalt hops, bitterness from the lower 30s to the 50s, (*NOT* the
25-35 which the AHA lists!) colour around 35 EBC. Tony Babinec went on at
some length about the yeast. Wyeast #1338 "European Ale" is the genuine
Dusseldorf strain. This yeast is the key to achieving the big malty
character with only a moderate gravity beer. This yeast is also one of
the major elements which makes Alt different from the superficially
similar Brittish pale ales. (This yeast is, by the way, a real pleasure
to work with.) Also key to this style is the technique of warm
fermentation followed by cold lagering. The malt bill can contain about
10-15% wheat malt. I prefer using a portion of Vienna malt rather than
crystal, with a touch of chocolate malt for coloring, to offset the
lightening quality of the wheat. I've made very good Alt with partial
extract methods, using Laaglander dry light unhopped extract. My most
common mistake in making Alt is to let the gravity get too high; relax
don't worry etc., and just call it "sticke".

What most people, including beer judges, don't understand about Alt is
that it is supposed to have a big, malty flavor profile, with lots and
lots of hop bitterness. This misconception, no doubt, stems from the
lack of good commercial examples available here - it takes a trip to
Dusseldorf to taste it. This is a BIG beer.

Of the Zum Uerige brewpub's altbier, Jackson sums it up: "****". He goes
on: "Zum Uerige ... produces the classic Dusseldorfer Altbier, an
aromatic, tawny brew, deep in colour and flavour, with a slowly unrolling
hop bitterness in its big and sustained finish. Zum Uerige **** beer is
the most assertive, complex, and characterful of the Alts. It is also the
most bitter."

There are several American pretenders, but none of them measure up.
WIDMER ALT was originally attempting to duplicate Zum Uerige, and was
doing a pretty good job of it, but recent samples have been rather
disappointing. ALASKAN AMBER and OLD DETROIT are both creditable.
(There's something about Alaskan Amber which makes it particularly
delicious with smoked salmon - probably not an accident.) DUSSELDORFER
DARK ALE from Indianapolis Brewing Co. tries hard. It is a tasty, very
smooth beer (when fresh), but it is nowhere close to hoppy enough. The
two ST. STAN'S alts are just not in the Dusseldorf style.

I will always remember my evening at Zum Uerige, drinking perhaps the
best beer I have ever had, and watching the staff roll the wooden barrels
out to be dispensed by gravity. (I wonder if the wooden barrels have
something to do with the magical flavor. There has been some research on
this topic.) It made Dusseldorf - an otherwise unspectacular city - the
high point of a 3-week European vacation. Discussing it makes me so
thirsty that I'll have to make that Wyeast #1338 starter and get brewing,
because I can't afford airfare to Dusseldorf. Like they say, if you want
it done right, do it yourself.

- -- Roger Deschner

------------------------------

Date: 04 Oct 1992 15:28:23 -0400 (EDT)
From: KLIGERMAN@herlvx.rtpnc.epa.gov
Subject: TRUB 4 CONTEST

There were aprrox. 140 entries for the Triangle Unabashed
Homebrewers 4th annual contest (trub $)
The results are as follows:
amber lager: 1 Greene
             2 Leonhard
             3 Leonhard

Light	1.Sturmer
	2.Fix
	3.Oglesby

Mead	1.Sturmer
	2.Leonhard
	3.Kagan

Brown	1.McGee
	2.Heckman/Glits
	3.Davis

Porter	1.Bailey
	2.Leonhard
	3.Pittner

Strong	1.Kligerman
	2.Fialka/Starke
	3.Wells

Amber Ale 1.Evans/
           Trott
	2.Branch
	3.Lelivelt

Specialty 1.Smoot (best of show)
	2.Erwin
	3.Hardy

Dark	1.Cyr
	2.Mackenzie
	3.Christoffel

Stout	1.Davis
	2. MacCartney
	3. Oglesby

Wheat	1. Bailey
	2. Smoot
	3. Branch

Thanks to all those who entered.  Judging forms will be
mailed soon.

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 4 Oct 92 23:50:18 EDT
From: "Spencer W. Thomas" <Spencer.W.Thomas@med.umich.edu>
Subject: Exploding bottle :=(

Yesterday, I dropped a bottle of HB on the tile floor in my kitchen.
BOOM! Not too much damage, but one flying shard hit me in the leg and
left a cut about 1/3inch long.  Nice clean cut in the blue jeans, too.

=Spencer

------------------------------


End of HOMEBREW Digest #983, 10/05/92
*************************************
-------