HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: kyrsten@eos.arc.nasa.gov (Kyrsten Swazey)
Subject: Interrogation and psychology
Organization: NASA Ames Research Center
Distribution: usa
Date: Fri, 18 Dec 1992 16:51:34 GMT

Dave, in the scenario you posed, it would seem much cleaner than the
difficulties which would arise when a "brainwashed" individual is placed
back in their natural environment.
You mentioned the Milgram experiment and, yes, it is a sobering look at
what people will do when exposed to an authority figure.
But, in the case of the trained agent being conditioned in six months, I
would think that this would be entirely possible.  Another poster talked
about boot camp - the military makes "men" in only 12 weeks.
Intuitively, it seems to me that if interrogators had complete control
of every facet of an agent's being, then there would be no possibility
of him *not* being broken down.
I have heard that the military interrogators may use hallucinogens as
part of their shaping mechanism - it would not matter, then, how much
they knew about the agent, if they know he will be doubting his own
senses and perceptions.
Certainly once he is placed back within his own environment the issue
becomes more complex, but until then I would find it hard to believe
that anyone, regardless of how well trained, would not crack.

Kyrsten
From: probst@selkirk.sfu.ca (Scott Probst)
Subject: Re: DREAM MACHINE
Organization: Simon Fraser University, Burnaby, B.C., Canada
Date: Sat, 12 Dec 1992 00:38:46 GMT

In article <1992Dec11.015500.9661@murdoch.acc.Virginia.EDU> cfs2b@fermi.clas.Virginia.EDU (Chun Fai Szeto) writes:
>	I am an electrical engineering student and very interested
>in something more about "dream".  My thesis would be most likely 
>concentrating on the issues about dream and electronics. I read 
>some magazines talking about some University are working on a 
>machine which can help people falling asleep and even "select" 
>what types of dream they want to have. I don't know is that true 
>or not.  If anyone knows something more about it, please email 
>to me or post on the net.  Thanks in advance.
>	
>	my email address : cfs2b@Virginia.edu
>
>
>Chun

i don't think there is anything remotely like this being worked on, although
i have seen some sort of contraptions being sold to those who want to take
a chance on a machine that is basically untested...

scott
Newsgroups: sci.psychology
From: kyrsten@eos.arc.nasa.gov (Kyrsten Swazey)
Subject: Re: Psychology and Interrogation
Organization: NASA Ames Research Center
Date: Thu, 17 Dec 1992 16:48:07 GMT

Two questions:
 - What about the use of drugs (i.e. such used in treating alcoholics to
   produce a negative reaction to any alcohol)?  If ethics are not an
   issue, how likely is a Clockwork Orange scenario?
 - Without any individual's conscious machinations, we are already
   strongly conditioned towards compliance to authority - to use a
   friend's words, how many of us have even turned down our sterio when
   a policeman is approaching us on the highway?  This, to me, indicates
   an already immense predisposition towards acceptance of authoritarian
   and power-full roles.  Is this already transparently obvious?

Kyrsten
Newsgroups: sci.psychology
From: dlb@fanny.wash.inmet.com (David Barton)
Subject: Re: DREAM MACHINE
Organization: Intermetrics Inc., Washington Division, USA
	<1992Dec12.003846.13858@sfu.ca> <71528@cup.portal.com>
	<MADAVIS.92Dec17141419@sparta.nmsu.edu>
Date: Fri, 18 Dec 1992 14:55:27 GMT

In article <MADAVIS.92Dec17141419@sparta.nmsu.edu> madavis@nmsu.edu
(Mark Davis) writes:

   yeah, the company now calls itself The Lucidity Institute and it is
   apparently a spinoff of research being done at Stanford.  A week back,
   on NPR, i heard an Oregon composer who's newest piece equips all the
   audience with goggles with lights inside and they get light patterns
   tuned to the flow of the music, which is basically akin to Laurie
   Anderson.  he said categorically that he had tried a wide range of
   biofeedback and stimulation devices experimentally over the years and
   that the Lucidity Institute's product was the only one he had found 
   which delivered on its promises.

   hmmmm, if only the price came down.

The price that I have is #1200.00; however, a 15% discount is offered
if you are a member of the Lucidity Institute, which costs a grand
total of $35.00.  Given that this is more than paid for by the cost
difference, I suggest that if you want to get a DreamLight, you join.

The address, if anyone cares, of the Lucidity Institute:

The Lucidity Institute
Box 2364
Stanford, CA 94309

Jennifer Dole, of the Lucidity Institute, sometimes posts on
alt.dreams.  I have no connection with the Institute, except as a
$35.00 member (if they have received it by now).

They have recently announced a much cheaper device called the
DreamLink, which combines a simple timing device (flash the leds in
the goggles at a given time), and a built-in "clicker" that has been
found, by experience, to act differently in most cases when activated
in a dream from the normal "turn off the lights with an audible click"
behavior.  This can serve as a lucidity cue.

					Dave Barton
					dlb@hudson.wash.inmet.com
Newsgroups: sci.psychology
From: cohen@cmu.unige.ch
Subject: Education and Nutrition: bibliography ?
Organization: University of Geneva, Switzerland
Date: Mon, 14 Dec 1992 12:37:30 GMT

Hello,

I am looking for a good bibliography on the following subject:

	Role of education in nutrition and food selection

Thanks for any help !

Emmanuel-S. COHEN-LAROQUE
University of Geneva
Switzerland
COHEN@CMU.UNIGE.CH

Newsgroups: sci.psychology,alt.hypnosis
From: magik@chinet.chi.il.us (Ben Liberman)
Subject: Re: Neuro-Linguistic Programming (FAQ)
Organization: Chinet - Public Access UNIX
Date: Sat, 12 Dec 1992 13:02:49 GMT

In article <DLB.92Dec11131331@fanny.wash.inmet.com> dlb@fanny.wash.inmet.com (David Barton) writes:
>
>   Additionally, last spring, Charles Faulkner, NLP Trainer, offered a
>   day of his services to demonstrate the cure if someone else would
>   supply the clients and write the paper.  (This fall, when I posted
>   a query about that offer, I did receive a response from a
>   statistician who volunteered his services in the case that I heard
>   anything.  I heard nothing else from that query.)
>
>This is a MUCH better experiment, and I would be glad to hear its
>results.  (Note: without more information, I don't know if it is a
>really good one).
>
>					Dave Barton
>					dlb@hudson.wash.inmet.com

Dave, I talked to Charles about this today and he said that if someone
wanted to do a real study he'd be happy to show up and donate his services.


-- 
	------------    ------    ----------------------
	Ben Liberman    USENET    magik@chinet.chi.il.us
	                          magik@tai.chi.il.us

Newsgroups: sci.psychology
From: dlb@fanny.wash.inmet.com (David Barton)
Subject: Re: Psychology and Interrogation
Organization: Intermetrics Inc., Washington Division, USA
	<1992Dec10.193426.2411@dct.ac.uk> <00724549084@elgamy.jpunix.com>
Date: Fri, 18 Dec 1992 14:46:15 GMT

In article <00724549084@elgamy.jpunix.com> elg@elgamy.jpunix.com (Eric
Lee Green) writes:

   If you don't understand what's being said, try some introductory
   work like, e.g., B.F.  Skinner's _About Behaviorism_ which will
   give you a conceptual framework for tackling more complex works.
   I'd also suggest that you look back at the data on "brainwashing"
   from the Korean war era, where the North Koreans hit upon a very
   crude form of compliance training in order to interrogate GI's.
   With near 100% success, I might add. After that, the Army
   specifically changed its policy for enlisted men to "tell them
   whatever they want to know," because it was obviously unrealistic
   to stick to "name, rank, and serial number" in the face of a
   ruthless interrogator familiar with basic behavioral techniques.

I read Skinner long ago (and, as a sidelight, I really don't think his
introductory books are any more readable or understandable than the
original Watson).  I have also looked at the "brainwashing" data (or,
at least some of it) and fascinating stuff it is, too.  My impression
from this was that there were distinct limitations to this approach,
as successful as it was in that milieu.  You allude to this, below.

   Who is Ludlum? Just curious. As for "fevered dreams of what the CIA
   would wish", I suspect that things happen there that we don't know
   about.  Even then, though, I doubt that it's possible to train
   across sufficient environments to "brainwash" someone... once the
   person was placed back into his "normal" environment without the
   explicit contingencies enforcable in a dank dungeon, he wouldn't be
   "normal" anymore, but he wouldn't be under stimulus control either.
   At least, not to the point of following orders like, say, "Shoot
   your mother and eat her heart." The punishment involved there
   (emotional loss, grief, police, etc.) would far outweigh anything
   that can be administered in a normal environment, and even a
   million-dollar reward would fail to convince most people to do it.
   However, interrogating someone is a far different topic indeed. I
   do submit that, if you have enough information about the subject,
   and if you can get the subject to answer even a few simple
   questions accurately, it is probably possible to eventually get the
   subject to answer pretty much ANY question accurately.

Ludlum is a spy / adventure novelist.  I think that I misunderstood
your original claim, for your summary here conforms very closely to my
own understanding of the limits of such techniques.  Thanks.

On the other hand, I am continually amazed by what people will do upon
simple request, with no real "conditioning" at all.  Viewing the film
on the original Milgram experiment changed my view of the human race,
back in high school.  Further reading has only enforced this.

					Dave Barton
					dlb@hudson.wash.inmet.com
From: mcsdc1al@dct.ac.uk
Newsgroups: sci.psychology
Subject: news
Date: 10 Dec 92 19:34:26 GMT
Organization: Dundee Institute of Technology

As someone not too clued up on psychology and with a slight problem to solve, I
wonder if anyone could help me...

If you took a strong-willed man and wished to extract information from him,
how, psychologically speaking, would you go about taking this information from
him.  

The basic premise is...

a) A spy is kidnapped and taken away from civilisation and placed in a
completely fabricated society.

b) His kidnappers want his information.

c) He is strong-willed and trained (as a spy) to withstand most interrogation
techniques.

d) He has no family, so the idea that he would give information if his family
were threatened doesn't exist.



How would a psychologist take away his information?

**Lucas**
From: Renee@cup.portal.com (Renee Linda Roberts)
Newsgroups: sci.psychology,sci.med
Subject: Re: Looking for refs to the sleep disorder: Apnea
Date: Fri, 18 Dec 92 15:23:47 PST
Organization: The Portal System (TM)
Distribution: world

Is this for adults or children? If the latter, I may be able to help. Let me
know.

Renee Roberts
Newsgroups: sci.psychology
From: pwh@bradley.bradley.edu (Pete Hartman)
Subject: Re: Neuro-Linguistic Programming (FAQ)
Keywords: NLP   NeuroLinguistic Programming
Organization: Bradley University
Distribution: usa
Date: Tue, 15 Dec 92 19:21:49 GMT

In <1992Dec13.233542.8123@news.Hawaii.Edu> lady@uhunix.uhcc.Hawaii.Edu (Lee Lady) writes:
>On the other side we have the NLPers, who are incredibly inventive with
>great insight and have produced hundreds of techniques that seem to work
>incredibly well -- at least according to those who have actually tried
>them.

How many people are likely to spend the money that it sounds like it
takes to get practical experience in NLP, and then say "it wasn't
worth it"?  If it gets any results at all, even by accident, they
are not particularly likely to want to admit that they might have
just as easily found these techniques without spending X thousands
of dollars.
-- 
Pete Hartman		       Bradley University	pwh@bradley.bradley.edu
                                You'll have that
Newsgroups: sci.psychology
From: dlb@fanny.wash.inmet.com (David Barton)
Subject: Re: Psychology and Interrogation
Organization: Intermetrics Inc., Washington Division, USA
	<1992Dec10.193426.2411@dct.ac.uk> <00724546002@elgamy.jpunix.com>
Date: Fri, 18 Dec 1992 14:38:04 GMT

In article <00724546002@elgamy.jpunix.com> elg@elgamy.jpunix.com (Eric
Lee Green) writes:

[A long, clear, consise post]

All true, and a good discussion; however, I am not sure it addresses
the original situation.  Perhaps all this discussion is because I
misunderstood that situation.

The (fictional) situation: a trained agent, captured, made to obey
virtually any order in the (claimed) period of six months, including
response to any question.

I have no complaint with any of your post, and it is indeed standard
knowledge.  We are all indoctrinated, from the beginning of our lives.
I just am not sure that it addresses the above adequately.

					Dave Barton
					dlb@hudson.wash.inmet.com
From: mmussell@fmgu25.intel.com (Morgan Mussell ~)
Newsgroups: sci.psychology
Subject: Re: Neuro-Linguistic Programming (FAQ)
Date: 17 Dec 92 19:36:48 GMT
Organization: Intel Corporation, Santa Clara, CA USA

In article <1992Dec16.132257.16669@newstand.syr.edu a> mdkline@rodan.acs.syr.edu
(Mark D. Kline) writes:

>The problem is that truth be told, clinicians regularly use a lot of
>techniques which are unproven and may be harmful if not just wasteful.
>Psychoanalysis was the regnant model for years.  People really believed
>that free association helped; some still do!  Nowadays there are 
>therapists "helping" people recover their repressed memories of sexual
>abuse which never happened (not to say that there is no such thing as
>sexual abuse, of course there is).

About 10 days ago there was an ad in the Sacramento Bee, placed by a local
psychiatric hospital with both in and outpatient services.  It was in the
"20 questions" format that has been used in connection with alchoholism.

This questionaire posed 10 questions, and stated that if you answer 3 or more
yes, you may have been a sexual abuse victim as a child, and want to come in
for some counseling.  I could kick myself for misplacing the add, but I
remember 3 of the questions.

         1)  Do you suffer from depression?
         2)  Do you have low self-esteem?
         3)  Do you have difficulty forming satisfying relationships?

Based on my own experience, I must conclude that everyone who is, or ever
has been a sophomore, is a victim of childhood sexual abuse.  What was 
frightening about this add was the lack of qualification.  It did not
say "if you suffer persistently from..." or "you might want to talk to
a counselor about it..." or "we may be able to help."  Nope.  If 3 or more,
then probable sexual abuse victim.

The bandwagon rolls on!

Morgan Mussell               mmussell@mcd.intel.com
Newsgroups: sci.psychology
From: scott@gooflesh.uucp (Scott D. Taylor)
Newsgroups: sci.psychology
Subject: Programmer Creativity Survey
Distribution: pa
Date: 17 Dec 92 23:00:16 EST
Organization: PLA

Psycotherapist seeks brief interviews with programmers, independent
consultant, etc.,in greater philadelphia area for study of creativity
and insight formation.

If interested please contact:
    Elissa Sklaroff
    2401 Penna. Ave 7C47
    Phila, PA 19130
    (215) 765-8288

or email me at:
    ... uunet!gooflesh!scott
From: grohol@novavax.UUCP (John Grohol)
Newsgroups: sci.psychology
Subject: Re^2: EEG
Date: 20 Dec 92 03:20:13 GMT
Organization: Nova University, Fort Lauderdale, FL


Right now I am working with Dr. Montgomery here at Nova 
(montgom@novavax.nova.edu) on a project involving
hypnotic suggestibility and physiological measurements.
We are currently using EMG, EDG, TEMP and blood pulse rate,
although we do have the capability to use EEG.

The equipment we are using is J&J's system and Autogen's
EEG, both hooked up to a PC.

The hypothesis is general at this point -- that through
measurements, we can determine which type of hypnotic
protocol may be more appropriate for x subject as opposed
to y subject (x being easily suggestible and y being not
easily suggestible).

Contact Dr. Montgomery or myself for more information.

Happy Holidays!

-John

-- 
"Down by the railway siding,              /\   John M. Grohol, M.S.
 In our secret world we were colliding,  //\\  Center for Psychological Studies
 All the places we were hiding love,    ///\\\  Nova Univ, Ft. Lauderdale, FL
 What was it we were thinking of?" - PG   ||    grohol@novavax.nova.edu
Newsgroups: sci.psychology
From: mdkline@rodan.acs.syr.edu (Mark D. Kline)
Subject: Re: Neuro-Linguistic Programming (FAQ)
Organization: Syracuse University, Syracuse, NY
Date: Wed, 16 Dec 92 13:22:57 EST

In article <DLB.92Dec14154825@fanny.wash.inmet.com> dlb@fanny.wash.inmet.com (David Barton) writes:
>In article <1992Dec13.211538.15550@newstand.syr.edu>
>mdkline@rodan.acs.syr.edu (Mark D. Kline) writes:
>You know, your last response was considerably better than this one.

You're right about this.

>This does not change the fact that accredited, practicing clinicians
>are teaching and using NLP on a daily basis.  Those who give a damn
>may take the two facts (lack of research support, continued use and
>teaching by practicing clinicians) and make of them what they will.

The problem is that truth be told, clinicians regularly use a lot of
techniques which are unproven and may be harmful if not just wasteful.
Psychoanalysis was the regnant model for years.  People really believed
that free association helped; some still do!  Nowadays there are 
therapists "helping" people recover their repressed memories of sexual
abuse which never happened (not to say that there is no such thing as
sexual abuse, of course there is).  The fact that licensied clinicians
use a technique doesn't prove anything.  Part of what this means,
of course, is that the techniques used MAY really have value...


Newsgroups: sci.psychology
From: t35123n@taltta.hut.fi (Yoghurt (Tapio Vorlund))
Subject: Re: eliza
Organization: Helsinki University of Technology, Finland
Date: Sun, 13 Dec 1992 15:11:13 GMT

    Zeeezuuuuuuus...

    Eliza is a bad joke.

    But if you really want to play with it go to irc (internet relay chat)
    and join channel #eliza

    You'll get bored in ten seconds

    BTW: Emacs has also its version of shrink. Just type
         M-x psychoanalyze-pinhead

 T{ss{p{ sitten se piste siknature
 .....  .   ..... . .....   .   . :...: ..... .     .   .  .   . ... 
   :   ...  :...: : :   :    . .  :   : :...: :     :   :  ::. : :  :
   :  .   . :     : :...:     .   :...: :  :  :.... :...:  : ::: :..:
Newsgroups: sci.psychology
From: magik@chinet.chi.il.us (Ben Liberman)
Subject: Re: Neuro-Linguistic Programming (FAQ)
Keywords: NLP  NeuroLinguistic Programming
Organization: Chinet - Public Access UNIX
Date: Sat, 12 Dec 1992 13:17:32 GMT

If anyone out there is interested in seeing the kinds of results that
can be facilitated through the approach to internal human processes
that are sometimes called NLP, drop me a line.  I can put you in touch
with a few people who can demonstrate it to you and give you a clear
explanation of what they are doing and why at each and every step of
the way.  

(I've got to stop trying to write this stuff after staying out till 7:AM :-)

-- 
	------------    ------    ----------------------
	Ben Liberman    USENET    magik@chinet.chi.il.us
	                          magik@tai.chi.il.us

Newsgroups: sci.psychology,alt.hypnosis
From: jpk@Ingres.COM (Jon Krueger)
Subject: Re: Neuro-Linguistic Programming (FAQ)
Reply-To: jpk@Ingres.COM (Jon Krueger)
Organization: Ask Computer Systems Inc., Ingres Division, Alameda CA 94501
Date: 16 Dec 92 20:10:12 GMT

David Barton writes:
> [systematic desensitization] is included, I believe, in the
> general category of cognitive therapies.

Wolpe would be amused.

> For the moment, in the context of the discussion, "best" is
> all we've got.

Incorrect.  I cited two counterexamples.

> [people] underestimate the tremendous increase in medical
> research *practice*, and particularly in experiment design,
> that took place around the end of World War II.

Sure.  They also underestimate what a generation or so of safety and
efficacy requirements did for them.  But then, most of us haven't had
the medicine of our grandparent's day practiced us.

> Before then, it is not clear to me that the standards for
> demonstrating efficacy were known to most researchers, let alone
> general practitioners.

It was quite clear to those who cared.  The problem rather was that
that set of people didn't then intersect well with the set of people
who had power to require standards and enforce them.

> It is also not clear to me that these standards can be transplanted,
> wholesale, to clinical psychological practice.

Then it is equally unclear that they can be used in medical practice.
And yet they have been, continue to be every day, and we benefit from
it.  Apparently there are ways.

> The role of a "placebo" is not clear to me, nor is the ability to
> narrow the range of the experiment to a single technique or practice
> and do justice to the clinical situation.  (I am not saying this is
> impossible, just that I do not know how to do it).

The problem is neither unsolvable nor unique to psychology.  It
appears all the time in field testing.  For example, does expensive
medical device X add enough information to improve diagnosis accuracy,
treatment quality?  How much improvement?  Compared to the same amount
of money spent on conventional prodding, asking questions, reviewing
history?  The field is indeed a complex place, it poses hard problems,
and yet we have solved them in the past.

> It is no accident that your counterexamples above are arguably the
> most "mechanistic" of the clinical techniques available (where
> "mechanistic" is a very intuitive scale).  Fields such as hypnosis
> (which is, after all, the subject of alt.hypnosis) have a fair amount
> of controversy concerning "standardized" and "flexible" approaches.

If you can't define an independent variable we can hardly measure its
effects.  Nature is a bitch that way.

-- Jon
--
Jon Krueger  jpk@ingres.com  
Newsgroups: sci.psychology
From: szikopou@alfred.carleton.ca (Steven Zikopoulos)
Subject: biofeedback hardware
Summary: looking for Macintosh biofeedback hookup
Keywords: biofeedback
Organization: Carleton University
Date: Thu, 17 Dec 1992 18:09:48 GMT

Just wondering if anyone knows if a software/hardware package is
available that allows one to perform biofeedback on a Macintosh.

Steven Zikopoulos
e-mail:szikopou@ccs.carleton.ca
thanks

Xref: sparky sci.psychology:4796 alt.hypnosis:232