HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: km@cs.pitt.edu (Ken Mitchum)
Newsgroups: sci.med
Subject: Re: Arrogance, arthritis, & Banks
Date: 2 Oct 92 18:22:51 GMT
Reply-To: km@cs.pitt.edu (Ken Mitchum)
Organization: Univ. of Pittsburgh Computer Science

In article <1992Oct01.092023.28930@omen.UUCP. caf@omen.UUCP (Chuck Forsberg) writes:
.
.Obviously we need a working definition of medical competence in a
.specialty to distinguish from random quacks.  I propose we define
.an "sci.med expert" (on a particular specialty) as one who has
.demonstrated a 5-year cure rate of 51 per cent or better on all
.patients with the disease/disorder in question.
.

I totally agree. Since I am an internist, and don't cure anything
to a signficant degree, I cannot approach the 51%. Goodbye!


 -km
From: geb@cs.pitt.edu (Gordon Banks)
Newsgroups: sci.med
Subject: Re: Another brain/aluminium question.
Date: 4 Oct 92 16:17:50 GMT
Reply-To: geb@cs.pitt.edu (Gordon Banks)
Organization: Univ. of Pittsburgh Computer Science

In article <1992Oct1.232710.28696@newshub.ccs.yorku.ca> tony@nexus.yorku.ca (Anthony Wallis) writes:
>
>What's the latest on the contribution of dietary Al to neural plaque
>formation in Alzheimer's ?
>
Since the initial flurry of excitement, all reports have disconfirmed
that there is any danger from dietary aluminum except for one from
England about natural aluminum in drinking water.


>Is there any correlation with ethnicity ?
>

Not that I know of, although it wouldn't surprise me since
almost every other disease correlates.




-- 
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Gordon Banks  N3JXP      | "I have given you an argument; I am not obliged
geb@cadre.dsl.pitt.edu   |  to supply you with an understanding." -S.Johnson
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: korihor@ac.dal.ca
Newsgroups: sci.med
Subject: Fluorocarbons/ liquid ventilation
Date: 30 Sep 92 20:11:28 -0300
Organization: Dalhousie University, Halifax, Nova Scotia, Canada

   Does anyone out there have any information on recent human clinical trials
of liquid ventilation with perfluorocarbons? The ONLY human trial I've
managed to find in the literature so far is by Greenfeld(?) back in 1989, but
I assume somebody somewhere must have tried something since then. E-mail me if
you can give me a lead.

                                               Thanks in advance,

                                                             Dr. Korihor
Newsgroups: sci.med
From: pburch@bcm.tmc.edu
Newsgroups: sci.med
Subject: Re: Allopurinol
Date: 24 Sep 1992 17:03:58 GMT
Reply-To: pburch@bcm.tmc.edu
Originator: pburch@roc.mbcr.bcm.tmc.edu


In article <16453@pitt.UUCP>, km@cs.pitt.edu (Ken Mitchum) writes:

|> I think the general consensus today is to not treat uric acid levels
|> per se, unless they are very high, such as associated with high
|> cell turnover states in certain malignancies and in patients undergoing
|> chemotherapy, i.e. uric acid levels in the high teens or so. For lower
|> levels, it makes sense to adjust obvious causes of hyperuricemia
|> (diet, drugs). Perhaps someone who has more expertise in this area
|> has some data on negative effects of lower levels of hyperuricemia
|> that might influence this position.

Can anyone comment on the sort of diet required?

My mother's been told to consume something called "Merotene Nutrition" 
--whatever that is--for uric acid levels around 6 or 7.

The only identifiable possible cause for elevated uric acid levels is 
her very necessary intake of diuretics.

pburch@bcm.tmc.edu
Newsgroups: sci.med
From: russ@wpg.com (Russell Lawrence)
Subject: Re: Arrogance, arthritis, & Banks
Organization: WP Group
Date: Sun, 4 Oct 1992 20:47:48 GMT

In article <BvIDIs.9yp@wpg.com> russ@wpg.com (Russell Lawrence) writes:
rl> All the quacks that I've investigated had credentials, Ken.   Rather
rl> than pit one set of credentials against another, wouldn't it be
rl> preferable to provide some pointers to the data?

From article <16730@pitt.UUCP>, by km@cs.pitt.edu (Ken Mitchum):
km> Russell, you are as bad as the alternative medicine freaks around
km> here: Everyone demands a list of references for everything from
km> the "experts" but everyone else can back up what they say with
km> stuff copied off restroom walls! Get a life. 

I disagree that everyone else can reasonably back up what they 
say with stuff copied off restroom walls.  A chatterer is a 
chatterer regardless of his credentials, or lack thereof.  

As I said, all the chatterers (quacks) that I've investigated had 
credentials.  Some of them had very impressive credentials.  What 
the quacks didn't have was empirical, scientific evidence to back 
up their claims that megadoses of vitamin C are good/bad, that 
amalgam fillings are safe/unsafe, that a given chemical cures 
breast cancer, etc, etc.   We're not going to convince their followers
by chattering contrary claims, and following them up with the the
argument: "Trust me -- I'm a doctor", especially if we get angry
when they fail to obey the advice.  After all, the quacks are doctors,
too.

km> Ok. I will no longer identify myself or post as a physician. That
km> should get me on equal footing with all the crazies in this group.

You're missing the point, Ken.    

-- 
Russell Lawrence, WP Group, New Orleans (504) 443-5000
russ@wpg.com   uunet!wpg!russ
Newsgroups: sci.med
From: georgec@eng.umd.edu (George B. Clark)
Subject: Re: Chest pain
Date: Fri, 02 Oct 92 22:30:42 GMT
Organization: University of Maryland

>
>It sounds very much like costal-chondritis (spelling?), or inflammation of the
>rib joints.  This can be confirmed by an orthopedic doctor.  There usually is a

Sixty-nine percent of people with a tender spot on the front sides of
their chest wall suffer from Tietze's syndrome, a pain in the rib joints.
At least that's what Archives of Physical Medicine and Rehabilitation
said in February 1992.

Maybe "costal-chondritis" and Tietze's syndrome are the same thing?
I sure don't know.
From: pburch@bcm.tmc.edu
Newsgroups: sci.med
Subject: Re: L-tryptophan and insomnia
Date: 24 Sep 1992 17:16:54 GMT
Reply-To: pburch@bcm.tmc.edu
Originator: pburch@roc.mbcr.bcm.tmc.edu


In article <1992Sep13.185250.26095@newstand.syr.edu>, mdkline@rodan.acs.syr.edu (Mark D. Kline) writes:

|> Insomnia is enormously subjective and extremely common.  Many
|> insomniacs can be awakened from a sound sleep and will SWEAR that they
|> were awake, and drastically underestimate the amount of time they spend
|> asleep at night. 

Lately I've noticed trouble getting back to sleep after awakening during 
the night, and have spent some time worrying about this, at the time, only 
to realize that I was dreaming that I was lying in bed awake when I was 
actually asleep! Then I fuzzily decide that I don't have to worry about 
it any more. 

(Worrying about something *while dreaming* can get pretty silly. When I 
wake up I have to laugh at some of the things I've been worrying about 
in my sleep.)

pburch@bcm.tmc.edu
Newsgroups: sci.med,talk.politics.animals
From: joshua@homespac.uucp (Joshua Levy)
Subject: Re: baboon heart recipient
Organization: Expert Support Inc., Mountain View, CA
Date: Tue, 29 Sep 1992 06:12:44 GMT

mhollowa@csws8.ic.sunysb.edu (Michael Holloway) writes:
>Animal "rights" means just that.  That animals have rights every bit the 
>equal of yours or mine.  There's no wiggle room there.

black@che.serum.kodak.com (Robert Black (x37236)) replied:
>Please give some specific examples.  For starters, what animal rights
>individual or organization has ever said that animals have or should
>have the right to vote in the upcoming presidential election?

I can give you a specific example of an animal rights person saying that
animals have the same rights as people:

``there is no rational basis for saying that a human being has
  special rights.  A rat is a pig is a dog is a boy.  They're all mammals.''
  Ingrid Newkirk founder PETA: (people for the ethical treatment of aminals)
  In Vogue Sept. 1989

Here are some related quotes:

``To believe in and work for our oppressed and exploited brothers
  and sisters in fur and feather and fin commits animal rights 
  activists to believing in and working for our oppressed brothers 
  and sisters in human flesh.''
  Francione and Regan in THE ANIMAL's AGENDA Jan/Feb 1992

Regan was asked which he would save, a dog or a baby, if a boat 
capsized in the ocean.  His reply: ``If it were a retarded baby and 
a bright dog, I'd save the dog.''
Tom Regan - Author in the animal rights movement
at UWisc-Madison Oct. 1989

``We feel that animals have the same rights as a retarded human child''.
Alex Pacheco - chairman of PETA in the New York Times Jan. 1989

``We are here to represent the most oppressed minority in the history
of the world.''
George Cave - President of ARM! (formally trans-species, unlimited) 
June 1990

Obviously, there are lots of "animal rights" people, and they don't all
believe the same thing, but some of them are on record as saying that
animals and people have similar, if not identical, rights to humans.

Joshua Levy at home: joshua@homespace.mtview.ca.us
From: nyeda@cnsvax.uwec.edu (David A. Nye MD)
Newsgroups: sci.med
Subject: Whither sci.med?
Date: 6 Oct 92 08:35:27 GMT
Article-I.D.: cnsvax.1992Oct6.143527.1549
Organization: University of Wisconsin Eau Claire

I talked to two other physicians recently who read this news    
group for a while and then dropped it because of its content.
There are probably several others lurking out there (speak up!).
I've been lurking here since Gordon told me about this news group
at the last American Academy of Neurology meeting.  This all got
me wondering about what sci.med is used for and what it should be
used for.  The majority of the traffic here is either physician-
bashing or requests for information from patients.  Gordon, Ken
and others have provided a superb free medical advice service to
any who ask.  Many other physicians don't see this as recreational.

There are many physicians on the net who would probably participate
if sci.med were divided up a little differently.  For example,
most of the members of the American Medical Informatics Assn have
net access, yet most of the activity in this field is on Compu$erve
(boo, hiss).  I suggested to AMIA that a 'sci.med.informatics' would
be worth trying.  It would also be worth trying to separate the
alternative medicine stuff off as 'alt.med' or 'sci.med.alternative'
and possibly also try a separate 'sci.med.advice'.  I think we would
see more physician and other allied health profession participation
if there was one group primarily for discussions within this group
(should also include administration, members of health industries).
From: dyer@spdcc.com (Steve Dyer)
Newsgroups: sci.med
Subject: Re: Antihistamines and Decongestants
Date: 1 Oct 92 04:55:48 GMT
Article-I.D.: spdcc.1992Oct1.045548.13073
Distribution: usa
Organization: S.P. Dyer Computer Consulting, Cambridge MA

In article <1992Sep30.235120.14389@equalizer.cray.com> joel@cray.com (Joel Broude) writes:
>I wonder that, too.  For example, do decongestants contribute to 
>the incidence of kidney stone attacks in those of us prone towards them?
>We're supposed to drink lots of water to keep down our uric acid 
>and calcium levels.  It would seem that by drying us out, decongestants 
>would allow those levels to increase, helping more stones to form.

What?  A decongestant shrinks the blood vessels in the sinuses.
Antihistamines reduce secretions in the nose.  Needless to say,
this has nothing to do with "drying you out" in general or does
it affect your urinary volume.  Gasp.

>I also wonder about the LONG-TERM affects of taking antihistimines
>and decongestants.  Is anyone aware of any studies?

Don't you people have enough to worry about?

-- 
Steve Dyer
dyer@ursa-major.spdcc.com aka {ima,harvard,rayssd,linus,m2c}!spdcc!dyer
Newsgroups: sci.med
From: annick@cortex.physiol.su.oz.au (Annick Ansselin)
Subject: Re: SPINAL INJURY REPAIR - rejection problems
Organization: Department of Physiology, University of Sydney, NSW, Australia
Date: Thu, 1 Oct 1992 08:21:04 GMT

Whole cell tranplants also bring on the complications of rejection unless
the donor is compatible or the recipient is immunosuppressed.
Newsgroups: sci.med
From: adamsd@crash.cts.com (Adams Douglas)
Subject: Need BBSs used by Optometrists and eye-doctors.
Date: 25 Sep 92 23:25:32 GMT
Keywords: Optometrists, Opthamalogists, BBSs


 
I am the programmer of an automated visual-testing system for
PC's and I need pointers to BBS's used or likely to be frequented
by optometrists, opthamologists and other medical professionals
who might have interest in such a system. They need to be
references to BBS's, or to other online system which would enable
me to post of ftp a demo version of the software for access by
potential users. This software was developed with assistance and
suggestions from professionals in the field of visual testing and
diagnosis.
 
Email all suggestions please. Also let me know if you personally
are interested in information on this software. I would simply
post it now, but I'm trying not to make this an advertisement.
 
Thank you,
Adams Douglas
adamsd@crash.cts.com
Newsgroups: sci.med
Subject: Re: Attention Deficit Disorder Resources
From: RGINZBERG@eagle.wesleyan.edu (Ruth Ginzberg)
Date: 6 Oct 92 18:36:37 EDT
 <1992Sep30.180321.25015@nntpd.lkg.dec.com> <1992Oct1.130847.7837@ll.mit.edu> 
 <1992Oct5.164520.21030@aoa.aoa.utc.com> <1992Oct6.180736.307@news.wesleyan.edu>
Distribution: world
Organization: Philosophy Dept., Wesleyan University
X-News-Reader: VMS NEWS 1.20In-Reply-To: RGINZBERG@eagle.wesleyan.edu's message of 6 Oct 92 18:07:32 EDTLines: 33

In <1992Oct6.180736.307@news.wesleyan.edu> RGINZBERG@eagle.wesleyan.edu writes:

[...stuff about logic omitted...]

Before anybody assumes anything, I want to say I'm not merely a disinterested
onlooker in this alleged debate.

My 17-year old was diagnosed ADD w/out H when she was between 1st & 2nd grade. 
She had been referred to the psychologist by the 1st grade teacher, who thought
that she had "below average intelligence & a pushy mother who was unable to
accept her child's limitations".  Testing psychologist diagnosed "ADD without
Hyperactivity & mentally gifted."  Referred her to child psychiatrist, who put
her on Cylert. I found this diagnosis implausible (maybe for wrong reasons, but
nonetheless...).  So "MotherLove" (c.f. Steve's post) impelled me to take her
off the Cylert & ask that the school & the pediatrician & I work together to
treat her problems behaviorally rather than with medications.

She lived.  She even flourished.  She's now a Sr. in HS & a National Merit
semifinalist.  She plays the clarinet well enough to get a summer job that paid
her do that full-time already; she juggles, plays varsity volleyball; she takes
college-level courses in English, history, Spanish, and calculus; coordinates
the volunteer tutoring program for her entire school system; & actively
participates in religious Youth Group.  

*MY* Explanation:  I (still) think the original diagnosis of ADD was in error.
That's why I didn't think she needed the meds in the 1st place.  As her mother,
I thought she was bored & stubborn. (I still do.)  But that doesn't mean that I
don't think that ADD might really be a real brain disease that some OTHER kids
really have, and that they might well benefit from stimulant drugs.

------------------------
Ruth Ginzberg <rginzberg@eagle.wesleyan.edu>
Philosophy Department;Wesleyan University;USA
Newsgroups: sci.med
From: kjc7435@ultb.isc.rit.edu (K.J. Cater)
Subject: Re: Antihistamines and Decongestants
Originator: kjc7435@ultb
Organization: Rochester Institute of Technology
Distribution: usa
Date: Mon, 5 Oct 1992 22:37:13 GMT

The best nose-unclogger I've ever had is Trynalyn. It's rather
expensive and is only available by prescription. It DOES
cause drowsiness, but within 6 hrs. a bad stuffy head is
all clear.

Anyone else heard of/used this stuff??

K. Cater.

e-mail:"kjc7435@ritvax.isc.rit.edu".
From: geb@cs.pitt.edu (Gordon Banks)
Newsgroups: sci.med
Subject: Re: Arrogance, arthritis, & Banks
Date: 29 Sep 92 17:12:01 GMT
Reply-To: geb@cs.pitt.edu (Gordon Banks)
Organization: Univ. of Pittsburgh Computer Science

In article <1992Sep28.163729.24402@eng.umd.edu> georgec@eng.umd.edu (George B. Clark) writes:
>In article <16614@pitt.UUCP> geb@cs.pitt.edu (Gordon Banks) writes:
>>>
>>
>>time.  But yet, there are alway new people reading who think the
>>doctors are just flaming if they pooh-pooh chelation therapy,
>>for example, for heart disease.  They weren't around when it was
>>hashed out in detail.
>>
>
>Hey, that's me you're talking about.  :-)
>
>You were right about chelation therapy being quackery, and I felt
>badly when I learned I was wrong.
>
>But if it wasn't for you and Steve giving me a hard time, I'd probably
>still be reading that quack health newsletter published by
>Julian Whitaker, MD and Jane Heimlich. I cancelled my subscription
>after Gabe Mirkin told me the exact same thing you and Steve said.
>
>Each new monthly issue seemed more weird than the month before, and
>after about three months it became very clear that Whitaker and
>Heimlich are both quacks in the worst sense.

Actually, it was Kingsley Morse who was our antagonist on the
chelation question, not you.  I think you came in about a year
later.  Unlike you, I think Kingsley is still heavily into
alternative medicine and seems willing to bite on just about
any new theory that gets tossed into range of him.












-- 
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Gordon Banks  N3JXP      | "I have given you an argument; I am not obliged
geb@cadre.dsl.pitt.edu   |  to supply you with an understanding." -S.Johnson
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Newsgroups: sci.med
From: schiles@valentine.us.oracle.com (Suzanne Chiles)
Subject: Re: Chest pain
Reply-To: schiles@us.oracle.com
Organization: Office Automation Division
Date: Fri, 2 Oct 1992 00:14:27 GMT
X-Disclaimer: This message was written by an unauthenticated user
              at Oracle Corporation.  The opinions expressed are those
              of the user and not necessarily those of Oracle.

I have had the same kind of pain.  My doctor is pretty sure that it's
stress-related.  The pain comes from the diaphragm muscle going into
spasms when it becomes tense.   The only thing I've found to help is
some deep breathing exercises.  

Suzanne

-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Suzanne Chiles				schiles@us.oracle.com
415-506-6194				Oracle Corporation
		      Honor Diversity
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
From: paj@uk.co.gec-mrc (Paul Johnson)
Newsgroups: sci.med
Subject: Re: Starting an alternative medicine newsgroup
Date: 6 Oct 92 14:11:44 GMT
Reply-To: paj@uk.co.gec-mrc (Paul Johnson)
Organization: GEC-Marconi Research Centre, Great Baddow, UK

In article <16757@pitt.UUCP> geb@cs.pitt.edu (Gordon Banks) writes:

>What is the charter of sci.skeptic?  Is it for those skeptical
>of science or those skeptical of claims like those made for iridology,
>for example?

I don't have the charter, but I edit the FAQ.  In it I say that the
purpose of the group is for both groups to meet each other.

Paul.

-- 
Paul Johnson (paj@gec-mrc.co.uk).	    | Tel: +44 245 73331 ext 3245
--------------------------------------------+----------------------------------
These ideas and others like them can be had | GEC-Marconi Research is not
for $0.02 each from any reputable idealist. | responsible for my opinions
Newsgroups: sci.med,soc.veterans
From: Nigel.Allen@bbs.oit.unc.edu (Nigel Allen)
Subject: Kansas City VA Medical Center Shares in National VA Quality Award
Organization: NDA
Date: Thu, 1 Oct 1992 04:16:53 GMT

(I don't work for the U.S. government, but I saw the following press
release on another system and thought that it might be of interest to
people on this newsgroup. I realize that there are problems with VA
hospitals, and I'm not trying to cover them up.)

Here is a press release from the Department of Veterans Affairs

 Kansas City VA Medical Center Shares in National VA Quality Award
 To: City Desk, Medical Writer
 Contact: David Mayville of VA Medical Center, Kansas City,
          816-861-4700, ext. 3766 (Daytime), or
          816-268-7614 (After hours)

   KANSAS CITY, Mo., Sept. 30  -- When Acting Secretary 
of Veterans Affairs Anthony J. Principi presented VA's
first annual award for quality improvement today in Washington, D.C.,
the Kansas City VA Medical Center (VAMC) won the finalist spot in the
patient-care category.
   The finalist award in the patient-care category recognizes the
Kansas City VAMC for making the greatest improvement in the nation in
providing health care to veterans as part of VA's total-quality
management program.
   "We have improved quality of care in a number of areas," said
William G. Wright, Kansas City VAMC director.  "These include
aspiration pneumonia, pressure ulcers, respiratory care, and
post-operative infections.
   "These and other quality-management innovations have resulted in
reduced mortality, reduction in length of stay, increased customer
satisfaction and significant monetary savings.  It shows that quality
of care in VA medical facilities is on a par with or exceeds that of
the private sector," said Wright.
   "This award tells us we have created a unique environment in which
people can excel.  It confirms that we are on the right track in
providing high-quality patient care," said Dr. Glenn R. Hodges,
Kansas City VAMC chief of staff.
   The awards competition is dedicated to Robert W. Carey, who led
his VA office in a total-quality management approach to service to
veterans before his death in 1990.  This year, the first Carey Award
was presented to employees of his office, the Philadelphia Regional
Office and Insurance Center, and two VA benefits support offices also
located in Philadelphia.
   The top finalist in benefits services was the Southern Region of
the Veterans Benefits Administration; and in support services, the VA
National Cemetery System's office of Memorial Programs, which
provides headstones and markers for veterans' gravesites.
   "The Robert W. Carey Quality Award is patterned after the Malcolm
Baldridge Award," said Wright.  The Baldridge Award is the highest
award given for quality by the U.S. government to private-sector
organizations in the movement to make domestic products and services
more competitive.
 -30-


--
   The opinions expressed are not necessarily those of the University of
     North Carolina at Chapel Hill, the Campus Office for Information
        Technology, or the Experimental Bulletin Board Service.
           internet:  bbs.oit.unc.edu or 152.2.22.80
From: paj@uk.co.gec-mrc (Paul Johnson)
Newsgroups: sci.med
Subject: "Alternative" therapies and the sci.skeptic FAQ.
Date: 28 Sep 92 12:56:21 GMT
Reply-To: paj@uk.co.gec-mrc (Paul Johnson)
Organization: GEC-Marconi Research Centre, Great Baddow, Essex

I edit the sci.skeptic FAQ.  There is some stuff in it that would be
relevant to sci.med.  There is a section on alternative health, and
also information on the scientific method and conspiracy theories
(which seem to pop up here occasionally).  But there is also a load of
stuff on other things, like psi research and flying saucers which
have nothing to do with medicine.

Would people like me to cross-post the FAQ?  Or would you prefer to
see it stay on sci.skeptic?

I could also do with more information on some of the alternative
therapies out there.  Submissions are invited.  Read the FAQ
(crossposted to news.answers) and let me know of any holes or extra
info.  The ideal submission is 50 lines long and contains references
to scientific or Skeptical studies of the ideas involved.

Paul.

Paul Johnson (paj@gec-mrc.co.uk).	    | Tel: +44 245 73331 ext 3245
--------------------------------------------+----------------------------------
These ideas and others like them can be had | GEC-Marconi Research is not
for $0.02 each from any reputable idealist. | responsible for my opinions
Xref: sparky sci.med:18032 sci.bio:3389