HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
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Newsgroups: bit.listserv.autism
Date:         Sat, 5 Sep 1992 17:42:04 EDT
              <AUTISM@SJUVM.BITNET>
From:         Anne Pemberton <apembert@VDOE386.VAK12ED.EDU>
Subject:      LIST CHANGE: New name for TELESI-L - now SEMIOS-L (fwd)

This list looks like it could be of interest to some of us...

According to Jim Cocks:
From NEW-LIST@VM1.NoDak.EDU  Wed Sep  2 14:40:50 1992
Message-Id: <9209021836.AA25033@vdoe386.vak12ed.edu>
Date:         Wed, 2 Sep 1992 13:15:01 CDT
Reply-To: JACOCK01%ULKYVM.BITNET@VM1.NoDak.EDU
From: Jim Cocks <JACOCK01%ULKYVM.BITNET@VM1.NoDak.EDU>
Subject:      LIST CHANGE: New name for TELESI-L - now SEMIOS-L
To: Multiple recipients of list NEW-LIST <NEW-LIST@VM1.NoDak.EDU>

SEMIOS-L on LISTSERV@ULKYVM.BITNET   Formerly TELESI-L
         or LISTSERV@ULKYVM.LOUISVILLE.EDU

   The list TELESI-L has been changed to SEMIOS-L and the scope of
   discussion has been expanded.  SEMIOS-L is a discussion group for
   those interested in semiotics, verbal and non-verbal communication,
   language behavior, visual issues, and linguistics.

   To subscribe send the command SUB SEMIOS-L Firstname Lastname

   to either LISTSERV@ULKYVM or LISTSERV@ULKYVM.LOUISVILLE.EDU

   Owner: Steven Skaggs S0SKAG01@ULKYVM.LOUISVILLE.EDU   (same)


--
* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
*                                                                   *
*    Anne L. Pemberton              apembert@ncps.vak12ed.edu       *
*    Nottoway High School           apembert@vdoe386.vak12ed.edu    *
*    Nottoway VA                    notthigh@ruby.vcu.edu           *
*                                                                   *
*           *       *       *       *       *       *               *
*                                                                   *
*   "One of the most spectacular privileges of intellectuals is     *
*    that they are free to demonstrate scandalous stupidity with-   *
*    out ever jeopardizing their reputations"   ---   Eric Hoffer   *
*                                                                   *
* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.autism
Date:         Thu, 10 Sep 1992 01:37:45 EDT
              <AUTISM@SJUVM.BITNET>
From:         jack Leclair <leclair@PILOT.NJIN.NET>
Subject:      Re: DMG Vitamin B15

What is a good source of information on the effect and mechanism of the
effect of vitamins, minerals, and nutritional supplements on autism?

Jack Baldwin-LeClair
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Newsgroups: bit.listserv.autism
Date:         Sat, 12 Sep 1992 06:33:01 EDT
              <AUTISM@SJUVM.BITNET>
From:         DRZ@SJUVM.BITNET
Subject:      Re: Hungry flies .......
              12 Sep 1992 19:38:00 +1000 from <LNCJB@CC.NEWCASTLE.EDU.AU>

One of my favorite stories is Carolyn's recounting of Helen getting
dressed.   In brief, Helen: What is the big thing?  Carolyn: Getting dressed
and going to school.  Helen: What is the little thing?  Carolyn: Putting up
your foot so I can put your sock on.  Helen: What is the littlest thing?
Carolyn: I dont know.  Helen, With a giggle: My toes are cold.
To say a child like that has only a literal understanding of language because
of a test score shows how much a slave we have become to testing.  What I
would say is that Helen has a problem passing that test, not that she has
an inability to deal with analogy.  Carolyn, from a behavioral point of view
does Helen have an inability to think in analogy?  Can you think of concrete
examples of success or failure in this area?   You, yourself, do not have a
problem with being too literal in language.  In fact, it seems just the
opposite: you create your own unique analogies.

Bob Zenhausern, Ph.D.        Internet: drz@sjuvm.stjohns.edu
St. John's University        Bitnet: drz@sjuvm.bitnet
SB 15 Marillac               Phone:  718-990-6447
Jamaica, NY 11439            Fax:    718-990-6705
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU
Original-From: 45258-Duncan <ixcim!bill>
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.autism
Date:         Fri, 11 Sep 1992 07:19:37 CDT
              <AUTISM@SJUVM.BITNET>
From:         bill@IXCIM.ATT.COM
Subject:      Re: DMG Vitamin B15

Carolyn makes a good point about working up dosage slowly.
I'd also like to add that if you decide stop using it to
work down the usage slowly. Isaac was doing B6&magnesium
and when the B6 ran out we stopped giving it just to see if
it really was doing anything (it's subtle enough that after
awhile you're wondering if it really was doing anything).
Isaac had a really rough next couple of weeks. About a month
after that I found a short summary of tests showing that
one could experience withdrawal symptoms by stopping high
B-vitamin intakes. Nothing awful, but enough to give a you
string of off days.

Bill Duncan
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Newsgroups: bit.listserv.autism
Date:         Fri, 11 Sep 1992 11:23:06 EDT
              <AUTISM@SJUVM.BITNET>
From:         DRZ@SJUVM.BITNET
Subject:      What I Did Over the Summer Vacation

A new academic year is starting and I want to share with you some of the
network activities that are planned and suggest some new ideas.  NYSERNet
has awarded Internet access to PS 177, in partnership with St. John's
University.  Plans are already being made to have the autistic (and other
developmentally disabled children from K to 21 participate in the Chatback
projects.  Chatback is a kids network that is aimed specifically at
using the Nets to educate children with any type of disability.  I also hope
to have them participate in Big Computer Pals, a Big Brother/Sister relation-
ship where either or both of the Pals have some handicap.  It is also used
for peer relationships among the disabled.  The list bicompal@sjuvm.stjohns.edu
serves as  the "classified ads" for Big Computer Pals.  Let me know if you want
to subscribe to Chatback or Bicompal.  You could have your children participate
or act as Big Pals to the kids from PS 177.  Maybe older children would
might like to be Big Pals with someone going through what they themselves
experience and how they deal with it.

This may be a good time to look at a problem that has been around as long as
the List and longer.  What is Autism?  As a psychologist, I should follow the
bible of the DSM?.  I do not, however, think one can define autism in terms
of "1 from column A and 2 from column B".  I think there are such things as
autistic behaviors that everyone experiences to varying degrees.  When
these behaviors predominate, we label the person as autistic.  Ray Kopp had
the problem that he could not get the label "autistic" on his daughter.  It
would have made her eligible for special programs.  Others on the list have
told that the label was given more quickly.  Is that a function of the severity
of the symptoms or the mood of the community?  Probably a mixture of both.
Jim Sinclair has said he uses his radar and can pick out autistics.  I
put more weight on that radar than the dsm.  If this list has shown anything
it is that individuals with autism are not alike.  Autistics show as much
individuality as anyone else.   Are these individual traits present from
the earliest years?  Can we look at children and group them on the basis
of patterns of these traits?  Do such subtypes of autism actually exist?

I guess you can call that a stream of questions and speculations looking
for some form.  What is your pet theory about autism?  What is the real
basis of it?  Summers over, back to work. ;-)

Bob Zenhausern, Ph.D.        Internet: drz@sjuvm.stjohns.edu
St. John's University        Bitnet: drz@sjuvm.bitnet
SB 15 Marillac               Phone:  718-990-6447
Jamaica, NY 11439            Fax:    718-990-6705






Message-Id:   <920911.104520.EDT.DRZ@SJUVM.BITNET>
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.autism
Date:         Wed, 9 Sep 1992 10:56:44 EDT
              <AUTISM@SJUVM.BITNET>
From:         Lisa S Lewis <LISAS@PUCC.BITNET>
Subject:      Re: DMG Vitamin B15

On Wed, 9 Sep 1992 09:42:36 EDT Altan Yazici said:
>Bill,
>
>I am looking mostly for more information.
>
>Thanks,
>
>Altan
THE source for information is Bernard Rimland's organization.  Unfortunately
I'm at home and the information is at work.  I'm sure that someone on the
net probably has the address (in San Diego) at their fingertips.

We tried DMG this summer.  Sam liked to take it (it's sweet) and it certainly
didn't do him any harm.  However we so no change or improvement as a result,
so we discontinued it.  It was about twice as expensive as Rimland's newsletter
said it would be (still not too bad) but that might just be New Jersey, where
*everything* is twice as expensive!
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.autism
Date:         Tue, 15 Sep 1992 11:22:39 EDT
              <AUTISM@SJUVM.BITNET>
From:         IP15217@PORTLAND.BITNET
Subject:      re: DMG Vitamin B15

To the list
Natalie also takes DMG and seems to have more good days than bad.
like Isaac (Bill Duncan's son), The effect is pretty subtle.
Natalie is a non-verbal Kanner's syndrome child who is learning
to facilitate.  She is more willing to communicate in any form
when she is taking it.  Her behavior is not so driven when she is
on it.  She is much easier to deal with.


                        Curtis Maurand       IP15217@portland.bitnet
                                             IP15217@portland.maine.edu
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X-Envelope-to: autism@sjuvm.BITNET
X-VMS-To: IN%"autism@sjuvm"
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.autism
Date:         Fri, 11 Sep 1992 10:04:00 EST
              <AUTISM@SJUVM.BITNET>
From:         "Lauren H. Arango" <LHARANGO@OWUCOMCN.BITNET>
Subject:      Re: First day of kindergarten

Hi, folks....I've been quiet lately because I've been swamped at work.  I've
only been able to sporadically keep up with the messages.  But I am still
here. :)

Dan Mont writes,

>Alex's new thing is "how to" books.  Once again I have no idea how much
>he gets out of them but we have to read a few "chapters" of his how
>to books each night.  He was very upset when I read him the chapter of
>how a vaccuum cleaner works.  He said he knew how that worked already so
>that chapter didn't count.  He wanted to read the chapter on how radar is
>used to locate airplanes.  Again, I have *no* idea how well he understands
>these things, but learning "how things work" or "the rules" are among
>Alex's favorite activities.

I didn't know my Dan (Wiebe) when he was a little boy, but I'm sure that he
must have been *so very much* like Alex!  I can so clearly imagine him doing
this!  And you'd probably be amazed at how much Alex is getting out of
those books.... I'm sure that my Dan at five years old could have probably
taken the vacuum cleaner apart and then put it back together again....very
competently. :)  Dan supplemented his "how to" book knowledge with "hands
on" experience! :)  And my kids have even picked up on this about him....
one day when he was at our house he happened to pick up my daughter's watch
that she had left on the end table by the couch.  She saw him do it, and
immediately came running over, saying, "Dan! *Please* don't take it apart!!"

I saw one of those "Far Side" cartoons once that I thought was hysterically
funny, because it reminded me so much of Dan.  It showed a boy in his
living room, balancing a grand piano up in the air on the end of a broom
handle.  His parents were walking in the front door, and his mother was
exclaiming, "Every time we go out and leave you, you manage to get into
trouble!"  From the look on the boy's face, he had *no idea* what she
was talking about.  When I showed it to Dan, he couldn't see himself
in it....but to me, it was him in a nutshell.

Thanks, Dan Mont, for sharing with us the details of Alex and his first
day at school!  (By the way, Dan and I will be in Ithaca this weekend for
a wedding....a good friend of ours is getting married tomorrow (Saturday)
at 6pm at St. John's Episcopal Church....)

                                        Lauren
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Newsgroups: bit.listserv.autism
Date:         Mon, 7 Sep 1992 22:30:57 EDT
              <AUTISM@SJUVM.BITNET>
From:         DOC@VTVM1.BITNET
Subject:      SEMIOS-L list

Actually, it wasn't as interesting as a discussion of sign language
might have been (unless you were saying that tongue-in-cheek).  As far
as I could tell, semioticians study -- from a particular point of view --
the good old question of what it is that that language MEANS.  I think it
was -- and I must paraphrase horribly here trying to remember what
they were saying -- the idea that language = (or maybe is composed of)
"signs", which acquire their meaning in some philosophically/
linguistically determined way -- or maybe they DON'T.... It all seemed
very abstract and metaphysical to me.  But that's because it isn't my
field.  So why am I trying to explain what I don't understand?  :-(
But anyway, that's why I got off the list real fast.  Anyone who can
_really_ explain it .... please do!  (no jargon, please)

To the teachers on the list, who I guess are starting back tomorrow if
you haven't already -- good luck and good sailing in the coming school
year!   You have all my admiration and good wishes for what you do.

MK
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Newsgroups: bit.listserv.autism
Date:         Tue, 15 Sep 1992 07:33:21 EDT
              <AUTISM@SJUVM.BITNET>
From:         DRZ@SJUVM.BITNET
Subject:      Re: All I have time for today.
              15 Sep 1992 12:38:00 +1000 from <LNCJB@CC.NEWCASTLE.EDU.AU>

I think I got something mixed up.  Helen had a low score on similarities
but somehow I got the impression there was a problem with analogies.  Did
I miss something??  An analogy depends on seeing objects in a holisitc
sense (roads and roller coasters) but similarities depends on abstracting
out a common property.  The two schools may be actually opposite.  If
Helen is a holistic child and comprehends wholes, she may have difficulty
with comprehending parts.  Does this make any sense?

Bob Zenhausern, Ph.D.        Internet: drz@sjuvm.stjohns.edu
St. John's University        Bitnet: drz@sjuvm.bitnet
SB 15 Marillac               Phone:  718-990-6447
Jamaica, NY 11439            Fax:    718-990-6705
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU
X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.3.1 PL11]
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.autism
Date:         Thu, 10 Sep 1992 20:07:31 EDT
              <AUTISM@SJUVM.BITNET>
From:         Anne Pemberton <apembert@VDOE386.VAK12ED.EDU>
Subject:      Re: Getting a job when you're autistic
              "DOC%VTVM1.BitNet@pucc.princeton.edu" at Sep 6, 92 3:26 pm

MK,
  It's just about the right time to get in touch with the folks
at the Virginia Department of Rehabilitation. Don't know who'd
be your counselor up that end of the state, and hope there is a
good one available. (When Rehab folks are good they are very,
very good, but they are bad .....) :-) They should be able to
provide some traoning services for your son, to help him get
that first job (or two). Let me know if you need help finding a
num{ber or such... Anne

--
* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
*                                                                   *
*    Anne L. Pemberton              apembert@ncps.vak12ed.edu       *
*    Nottoway High School           apembert@vdoe386.vak12ed.edu    *
*    Nottoway VA                    notthigh@ruby.vcu.edu           *
*                                                                   *
*           *       *       *       *       *       *               *
*                                                                   *
*   "One of the most spectacular privileges of intellectuals is     *
*    that they are free to demonstrate scandalous stupidity with-   *
*    out ever jeopardizing their reputations"   ---   Eric Hoffer   *
*                                                                   *
* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU
X-Delivery-Notice:  SMTP MAIL FROM does not correspond to sender.
X-Envelope-to: autism@sjuvm.stjohns.edu
X-VMS-To: IN%"autism@sjuvm.stjohns.edu"
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.autism
Date:         Sat, 12 Sep 1992 20:06:00 +1000
              <AUTISM@SJUVM.BITNET>
From:         LNCJB@CC.NEWCASTLE.EDU.AU
Subject:      Re: DMG Vitamin B15

Ray,

I didn't know of the articles in Time Magazine, but there was one in the
May 1992 issue of Scientific American - "Biological Roles of Nitric Oxide"
that I found rather interesting with regards to the function of the
immunological system and they also mention a similar relationship between
carbon monoxide and cytochrome P450 reductase, and they claim that nitric
oxide synthase bears considerable similarity to cytochrome P450 reductase
in the overall amino acid sequences of the two enzymes. It is claimed that
these two enzymes 'may well prove to be......the new class of neuronal
messengers'. This could well be the connection Pat and I have been looking for
between our autoimmune and 'brain-function' disorders.

Carolyn
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Original-From: 45258-Duncan <ixcim!bill>
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.autism
Date:         Wed, 9 Sep 1992 13:25:04 CDT
              <AUTISM@SJUVM.BITNET>
From:         bill@IXCIM.ATT.COM
Subject:      Re: DMG Vitamin B15

Isaac uses DMG. The effect is pretty subtle, but he seems
to have more "good" days using it than when he is not. He
is also taking B6/Magnesium - they seem to work better
altogether than separately.

DMG was used alot in the 50's (I think) in the USSR in the
treatment of autism. It was originally marketed as B15, but
since the FDA stopped its sale as a vitamin, it is being sold
as a food supplement. It is also suppose to help improve the
immune system. For the price, it doesn't hurt to try it. The
results I've heard (based on about a dozen kids) ranged from
nothing to positive results, the positive maybe being about
30%.

Bill Duncan

Lisa: it's probably not important to you now, but the price
varies radically depending on where you buy it.
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.autism
Date:         Fri, 11 Sep 1992 14:21:53 EDT
              <AUTISM@SJUVM.BITNET>
From:         DRZ@SJUVM.BITNET
Subject:      Re: Test message.
              12 Sep 1992 00:28:00 +1000 from <LNCJB@CC.NEWCASTLE.EDU.AU>

Carolyn's message about a down gateway leads me to a solution that many of
you might want to consider.  Send to autism at sjuvm.stjohns.edu.
That should eliminate any gateway problems.

If your original subscription was with a binet address, you will have to
resubscribe to listserv@sjuvm.stjohns.edu and sign off at listserv@sjuvm.bitnet
Did I make that clear?  If not, write me privately.

Bob Zenhausern, Ph.D.        Internet: drz@sjuvm.stjohns.edu
St. John's University        Bitnet: drz@sjuvm.bitnet
SB 15 Marillac               Phone:  718-990-6447
Jamaica, NY 11439            Fax:    718-990-6705
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X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.3.1 PL11]
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.autism
Date:         Sun, 13 Sep 1992 21:41:25 EDT
              <AUTISM@SJUVM.BITNET>
From:         Anne Pemberton <apembert@VDOE386.VAK12ED.EDU>
Subject:      Re: Test message.
              "LNCJB@CC.NEWCASTLE.EDU.AU" at Sep 12, 92 12:23 pm

Carolyn,
    If you knew Americans, like I know Americans, you'd realize
that you don't need a lot of smiley faces to get away with
saying that Americans were born yesterday!!! We're in the
throes of a presidential election, and the BS flies thick and
mean.
     It also means that when an American visits Australia, they
have traveled forward in time, and travel back into history to
come home. :-)

    Anne
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Newsgroups: bit.listserv.psycgrad
Date:         Sat, 5 Sep 1992 12:48:51 EDT
              <PSYCGRAD@UOTTAWA.BITNET>
From:         Tim Tumlin <UFTRT@NERVM.BITNET>
Subject: Re: Psych-iatry vs -ology?

Mr. Timbrook is displaying uncommonly good sense -- especially in those
places where he agrees with me.
  Actually, I do disagree on the admission privileges.  Surveys of income
show that psychiatrists' greater income is due mainly to inpatient work
and greater ability to collect insurance payments. A friend of mine once
worked in a private psychiatric hospital, owned by the psychiatrists who
ran it, and they collected $1,100 a week as a "case management" fee, for
which they often did as little as read the patient's chart for five
 minutes a day.  They hired others to do their therapy for them. That's the
diff the hospital privileges can make.
   California and DC allow psychologists to admit patients to hospitals. The
California change came on a court ruling on a lawsuit  by psychologists.
They're still working out how to do this, but suddenly psychologists are
having a very hard time getting staff privileges in California hospitals since
that would now include admission privileges.
  Sorry, but I'm unconvinced that we need to write scripts because we can't
learn to collaborate with another professional. Our psychiatry department HAS
tried to interfere with cases we send them for med consults, but that's the
problem with a large service staffed by interns on rotation. A private-practice
psychologist can and should create a good working relationship with a medical
doctor. Remember that health professionals do this referral thing all the time.
  Nangel: Psychiatrist bashing? Moi? I plead guilty. Part of it is personal
and part of it is well based in fact. Very little I've seen working with
psychiatrists, as a whole, has worked to change my mind/biases. A couple of
the best therapists I've ever seen at work were psychiatrists but as a group
it's hard to ... well ... I'm gonna try not to get started.
Tim
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