HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: mvishnu@morse.uwaterloo.ca (m vishnu)
Subject: Re: Dear Mr. Meenan
Organization: University of Waterloo
Date: Tue, 18 Aug 1992 15:15:00 GMT

In article <l90h0gINNfel@nunki.usc.edu> nraju@usc.edu (Narayanan Raju) writes:
>
>1) dear Mr. Meenan, 
>			You write that,
>
>
>>As I wrote earlier, thanks to your forefathers (Bramins), we all are 
>>classified as sudras.  (Not that it matters, but it shows your ancestors
>>mentality)
>
>I have a lot of question to you.
>
>1) you claim here that all non-Brahmins were classified as Sudras
>
>Earlier you said that,
>>  The Britishers
>>employed a group of Bramins to reclassify the TN castes (jati) into the four
>>varnas.  The Bramins promptly classified the VeLaaLa, caste into the 'sudra'
>>varna.
>
>Your statements are self-contradictory.
> Which of these statements are true. Was every non-Brahmin classified as
>a Shudra or only some non-Brahmins  were classified as Shudras?

No, my statements are not contradictory.  When I said, we all were 
classified as sudras, I meant the vELaaLa caste.  I remember, Dr. K
Srinivasan once mentioning that, in Andhra, EVR's caste was classified
as Bramin and TN the same caste was classified as sudra!

>
>4)You concede that even before the Brahmins classified the society,
>there were castes in existence. This is precisely my point. Casteism
>existed in our society irrespective of Brahminsism.

That is not true.  The caste system based on birth was made rigid/enforced
by Brahmanism.  Brahmanism is perhaps the only religion in the world
that advocate segregation in its scriptures.


The British attempted to reclassfy South Indians into the four varna.
This may have been part of their divide-and-rule policy.

Meenan Vishnu

Newsgroups: soc.culture.tamil
From: neelakanta sundaresan <nsundare@silky.cs.indiana.edu>
Subject: vAnampAdi
Organization: Computer Science, Indiana University
Date: Thu, 20 Aug 92 14:16:51 EST
X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.3 PL11]


What is the english equivalent for the bird vAnampAdi? Is it a true bird
or just a poetic one?
thanks.
neel.
Newsgroups: soc.culture.tamil
From: balarama@cae.wisc.edu (Prabhu Balaraman)
Subject: Re: Planning of Madras city
Organization: U of Wisconsin-Madison College of Engineering
Date: 13 Aug 92 08:46:12 CDT

  1. In addition to the views presented ...
  2. Extend suburban train services till Mamallapuram - Will encourage
     diversification and decongestion.
  3. Most of the water supply tainted by tannery effluents
  4. Need sewerage systems other than septic tanks. Septic tanks
     leak, thus contaminating water supply.
  5. Ever pressing need for regular electricity and water...
  6. If you want a glimpse of regular planning visit my hometown,
     Neyveli!
  7. Just MHO
  8. Bye for now

     Prabhu

Newsgroups: soc.culture.tamil
From: kat@doe.carleton.ca (Kathiravan Krishnamurthi)
Subject: tamizh names-Venkat's suggestion
Organization: Dept. of Electronics, Carleton University
Date: Fri, 14 Aug 1992 18:25:10 GMT

     Anparae:

          You had suggested some names and say
Tamil-but no meaning.
and then you give a lot of other than Tamizh names and don't
say the meanings either.


        All the names, you suggested and said,"Tamil without
meaning" have a lot of meaning.
They can be derived etymologically.

For example:

eLankO=young king=prince.

go in Tamil is king. We call Temple as kOil in tamizh. il is house. kO is king.
House of the king (God).


KK
From: fca00@chennai.ccc.amdahl.com (A. Francis Chandran)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.tamil
Subject: Re: A THREAT from a boneless tiger in the net
Date: 21 Aug 92 20:25:47 GMT
Organization: Amdahl Corporation, Sunnyvale CA

In article <1992Aug20.144243.4702@coe.montana.edu> prem@cs.montana.edu (M.P.Premkumar) writes:
  
    [stuff deleted]

>>
>
>Very very brave of him. I thought LTTE was made of brave young people. But they
>have time and again proved to be coward, cunning, spineless, selfish, hate 
>mongers. I am not surprised at all.


   ...if the above message was really posted by some ltte guy or 
      its official spokesman. As somebody previously pointed out
      this most probably is a forgery.

>
>What does other Srilankans have to say regarding this threat ?

      What do you insinuate here ? why should all srilankans come
      up with an apology. not all srilankans are ltte supporters.

>
>
>Sincerely yours,
>M.P.Premkumar

                                     -francis.
Newsgroups: soc.culture.tamil,alt.culture.tamil
From: prem@cs.montana.edu (M.P.Premkumar)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.tamil
Subject: Re: Please be accurate to avoid flame wars.
Date: 18 Aug 92 19:48:38 GMT
Article-I.D.: coe.1992Aug18.194838.12598
Organization: Dept. of Computer Science, MSU, Bozeman Mt 59717

In article <Bt6x0K.Cpw@watserv1.uwaterloo.ca> crathina@ritchie.uwaterloo.ca (C Rathinavelu) writes:
>
>>This is very untrue. Mr.Rammohan's brother might not have got guindy.
>>But it is untrue that his friend with only 43% got Guindy. The 
>>minimum cut-off percentage for bothe backward and Forward castes to
>>enter guindy is 70%. There have been many incidents where many BC
>>guys despite with more than 90% could not enter Guindy.
>>Anbudan,
>>V R Kumar
>                 He may be good in sports or other extra curricular 
>activities. I know that there is some reservation system for each 
>district in TN to get admitted into professional colleges. So a student
>with low marks (but with eligibility) will get admission if he holds 
>higher rank in his native district. This is mainly to give equal/uniform
>chances/treatment for all district people ( still there is discrimination
>among districts). 

No, this is not the case in College of Engg., Guindy or in other Govt. collges.
The admission is soley based on merit. But there are some quotas in Guindy like
	1. Sports quota[very high achivement record only will count]
	2. Defense quota[children of the armed forces]
	3. Out of state quota[people from other states with required eligibility
	4. Handicapped quota[for the physically handicapped]
	5. Politician quota[this quota of one or two seats is achieved by 
			    bending the rules of the above mentioned quotas]

>
>                 If the admission is based on merit system then I am pretty 
>sure that only and only city people (Madras,Coimbatore,Trichy,Madurai etc. 
>they have more/most/enough facilities in education industry) will enjoy this
>partial system. One should also give some oppotunity to village and labour
>class people to come up in their life. 
>
>
>>	Whatever the hell it is , why should a person with low marks
>>should get admission when the other person is far better than him.
>>Any fool will be able to understand this logic. There is total injustice
>>going on this world. 
>
>
>             Do you think that getting high marks ( as bramins and other 
>fc people usually do ) in the subjects/studies means you are 100% fit for
>getting admitted to professional colleges? 

Unwarranted attack.

>If it is then that is why our
>(your) people are not able to shine well in western countries. Pure theoretical
>knowledge doesn't help for long term. One should also have some practical 
>knowledge. In my opinion one should not be given admission to any colleges
>based purely upon ones marks/grades.  
>
>Guindian,
>C.RATHINAVELU
>
>"Vadhiyarai Kakai Pidithu Soppu Pottal Yaru Vendumanalum Madhippen Perralam".
>

Adhaavadhu FC, BC, SC/ST "YAAR" vEndumaanaalum ivvagaiyil madhippeN vaangalaam
enRu koorugireergaL.


Another Guindian
M.P.Premkumar
Newsgroups: soc.culture.tamil
From: aras@ms.uky.edu (P. I. Arasu)
Subject: Re: tamilnadu pOkkuvaraththuk kazhagangal
Keywords: TPTC,MPTC,CTC,NTC,PTC etc
    <2A9048A1.28046@orion.oac.uci.edu>
Organization: University Of Kentucky, Dept. of Math Sciences
Date: Tue, 18 Aug 1992 04:48:51 GMT

sundar@indigo1.hsis.uci.edu (M. Sundaramoorthy) writes:

>	
>	dheeran chinnamalai was a 'anti-hindi movement' martyre.

	To the best of my knowledge he was a freedom fighter in the 
	last century (from somewhere near Coimbatore(?))
	He was hanged by the Brits.
	-arasu

>M. Sundaramoorthy
>sundar@indigo1.hsis.uci.edu
From: surendra@endeavour.rutgers.edu (Arun Surendran)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.tamil
Subject: Kanchi Aacharya
Date: 18 Aug 92 15:30:05 GMT
Organization: Rutgers Univ., New Brunswick, N.J.


Dear friends,
	This is in response to the news accusing the Kanchi Aacharya of 
	favouritism in seeing Indira Gandhi .... please see this issue
	in the light of the following facts :

	yes, the Aacharya does not see widows, generally ( it is a practice
	even I don't support ). But it is impossible for him to practice 
	this when he goes on tours. So, if he dows happen to meet them, 
	he fasts for the day !!

	Coming to Indira Gandhi's case, she was REFUSED audience twice before
	Still, she persisted. She was allowed the third time, but the
	Knchi Aacharya fasted for 3 DAYS after this.......
				^^^^^^^^^^^

	This posting is not in support of the practice but it only
	refutes the accusation of favouritism ......

	The Aacharya himself has said that there are some practices which
	 he opposes, but as the head of the mutt, he has to follow the
	rules set down by the mutt... and not set an example of rebellion.

	AC
	(AC Surendran)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.tamil
From: fb78@sol.acs.unt.edu (Ganesh Gopalakrishnan)
Subject: Re: Senthil Jokes.
Organization: University of North Texas
Date: Sun, 23 Aug 1992 16:45:41 GMT

crathina@ritchie.uwaterloo.ca (C Rathinavelu) writes:
> Joke 2: 
>             Senthil:  "Olympics_lae namakkuth therindha
>                       villaiyattellam vaikka mattanghala annae?"

>          Gowndamani:  ..... enna villaiyattu dha! .....
>  
>             Senthil:  athannae namdha ooru "Manghatha!"(seattatumn)


>Have fun,
>C.Rathinavelu
On a more serious note, I believe that KABADDI would make a VERY
ENTERTAINING addition to the Olympics! - Ganesh
From: mani@subversion.Berkeley.EDU (Mani Varadarajan)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.tamil
Subject: Re: EVR - Part II (Atheism)
Date: 17 Aug 92 21:04:39 GMT
	<Bt37rv.6zp@watserv1.uwaterloo.ca> <l8tgohINN10s@bathtub.cs.utexas.edu>
	<Bt57vq.793@watserv1.uwaterloo.ca>
Reply-To: mani@sprite.Berkeley.EDU
Organization: University of California, Berkeley
NNTP-Posting-Host: subversion.berkeley.edu
In-reply-to: mvishnu@morse.uwaterloo.ca's message of 17 Aug 92 19:38:13 GMT

In article <Bt57vq.793@watserv1.uwaterloo.ca> mvishnu@morse.uwaterloo.ca (m vishnu) writes:

   Aside:  Frontline magazine reported that a bunch of Bramins advertised
   in the newspapers that they are qualified to do a yaga that would bestow
   one with a noble male issue.  The ad. further said that the results
   (ie begetting a son) is guarenteed and the fee in Rs2000.00. 

Either you or the Frontline article or both are practicing
selective censorship.  The chief sponsor of this yajna is a
Nair man from Kerala, who, as is obvious from his name, is a
high-caste non-brahmin.  I am not surprised that you fail to
mention this, since you delight in blaming brahmins for
everything.  

In addition, this is not a forced event; those who believe in
the Vedic ritual are doing so because medical methods have
failed to solve their personal problems of infertility.  As
long as they are making a conscious choice, I see nothing
ethically wrong with this.

Finally, the Rs. 2000 fee covers the cost of the yajna, i.e.,
all the raw materials, hall rental, etc. Please present both
sides of an issue before you go on another of your ruthless
attacks.

Yours,
Mani
Newsgroups: soc.culture.tamil
From: thiyagarajan@mims.enet.dec.com (RT)
Subject: A THREAT from a boneless tiger in the net
Organization: Digital Equipment Corporation
Date: Wed, 19 Aug 1992 17:30:07 GMT


I received the following threat from one spineless tiger in the net who does
not have guts to post his view in the net and sent me e-mail

LTTE kills only good people, does it mean brahmins=good-people?

==============================================================================

From:   "LTTE@surya.waterloo.edu" 19-AUG-1992 12:07:34.52

LTTE will kill all the Brahmins.


% ====== Internet headers and postmarks (see DECWRL::GATEWAY.DOC) ======
% Received: by enet-gw.pa.dec.com; id AA07807; Wed, 19 Aug 92 09:07:27 -0700
% Received: from surya.uwaterloo.ca by math.uwaterloo.ca with SMTPid <AA03464>; Wed, 19 Aug 92 12:07:21 -0400
% Received: from wam.umd.edu by surya.waterloo.edu.bedinet (4.1/SMI-4.1)id AA29998; Wed, 19 Aug 92 12:05:15 EST
% Date: Wed, 19 Aug 92 12:05:00 EST
% From: LTTE@surya.waterloo.edu
% Message-Id: <9208191705.AA29998@surya.waterloo.edu.bedinet>
% Apparently-To: mims::thiyagarajan

Newsgroups: soc.culture.tamil,alt.culture.tamil
From: chepan@gsusgi1.gsu.edu (Parthasarathy Nambi)
Subject: Re: Planning of Madras city
Organization: Georgia State University
Date: Wed, 12 Aug 1992 13:50:28 GMT

nagabhus@aludra.usc.edu (Vasuki N) writes:

>	It is surprising that Madras being one of the biggest cities in India
>does not have planned growth of the city. Just adjacent to the "municipal
>definition of Madras city" , we have so many new localities which were
>developed and sold by the local municipal panchayats, who had no idea,
>what the requirements of a big city are. People should urge the responsible
>persons to form a planning body and structly enforce it. Otherwise, fewer
>new industries would be attracted to Madras city. Fortunately, since Madras
>also has train services, these new planned developments could be developed
>along the train route, which will lessen the road congestion. Also, the
>developents along the beautiful beach route to Mammalapuram should be 
>regulated in	
>in the general public interests. It will also bring additional revenue
>in terms of tourist trade. More than anything else, for the bebefit
>of all, Madras should strictly adopt planning strategies to control
>the future developement of the city.

>Anybody from Madras ?, what do you feel ?


	If there was any planning for the City of Madras, the planners
	would have never imagined the population growth we have in the
	city!. The growth and development of Madras is in some ways
	similar to american cities - no proper planning!. Look at
	Atlanta (where I live) - it seems to me that there was 
	absolutely no planning when the roads were built here, it is
	total chaos!. There is no such thing as a grid structure that
	have seen in many other american cities (Kansas City and
	Philadelphia comes to mind and are much better "planned").

	What is urgently needed in Madras and TN is program, plan to
	discourage more new arrivals. We need more industrial base
	away from Madras where people can find jobs. Unfortunately,
	I think it is too late and our political structure is not
	designed for such bold moves.

	Later,
	
	P.Nambi
From: gadi@bluejay.WUstl.EDU
Newsgroups: soc.culture.tamil
Subject: (none)
Date: 18 Aug 1992 16:08:36 -0500
Organization: UTexas Mail-to-News Gateway
NNTP-Posting-Host: cs.utexas.edu

This is a test.
Sorry 'bout this.
From: sankar@bank.ecn.purdue.edu (Mahalingam Sankararaman)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.tamil
Subject: EVR
Keywords: EVR
Date: 17 Aug 92 23:47:49 GMT
Organization: Purdue University Engineering Computer Network


EVR did bring out some aspects of caste into open and did
fight against it, but not really for the benefit for the
untouchables etc., but for his own financial and
political power.  He knew that fighting brahmins were
easy as they do not fight back and they are small
minority. He did not ever fight against upper cast hindus
such as Pillais, Goundars etc., who were financially and
politically powerful and hence formidable for EVR. 

Painting EVR as fighting for independence etc., were just lies
promoted after the independence by his supporters to save his face.
It is well known that he adviced to observe Aug 15, as a day of
mourning. Even his fighting for a Dravidian land did not
get any attention and he was ignored during the days of partition 
or even before that. He was no body during the
independence struggle, as can be seen by the arrest records during 
these struggles. Even the DMK govt. ignored him until way
after his death.

Gandhi, along with his struggle for independent India also
struggled for the upliftment of the untouchables and the
congress party in Tamil Nadu did both in a much more
civilized and non-violent way. As a congress party
member, even Rajaji got his daughter married to a non-brahmin. 
Where as the justice party and latter
the DK were just doing publicity stunts, yelling at
brahmins etc. to get attention and EVR made lots of money. 

These things were known to his followers, especially CN
Annadurai, and when EVR got married to a rather helpless
young women, they protested and started getting away from
him as CNA saw no future in DK. When the party split into
DK and DMK, some of the things said by these two groups
in a rather kuzha-adi-chandai fashion, the true color of
EVR came out.

The main reasons given for the party split was that EVR
got married to this very young women to protect his
property and that the financial arrangements of DK was not clean.

For which, EVR answered that these guys like CNA etc.,
wanted her but since they could not, they left the party
because of jealousy etc.

CNA group alleged that, if he does not like brahmins so
much why did he have exclusively Brahmin tenants in some
of his properties in Trichy and Erode and why his
accountant was a Brahmin? 

For which EVR replied that the Brahmins were god fearing
and paid the rent promptly and his accounted was
very intelligent. 

So there goes the cause for fighting against the rights
of the women and non-brahmins.

Sankar

PS This group is making me a "born again brahmin (tm)".
From: kumar@syd.dit.CSIRO.AU (V.R.Kumar)
Subject: Re: Please be Accurate to avoid flame wars.
Organization: CSIRO Division of Info Tech, Sydney, Australia
Date: Tue, 18 Aug 92 04:11:23 GMT

In article <l908k1INNcvu@aludra.usc.edu> rammohan@aludra.usc.edu (Karthikeyan Rammohan) writes:
>	Mr.M.P.Krishna Raj,
>		Let me tell you that my neighbor, who supposedly
>belongs to the backward caste(even though he is a well off
>person,economically) got into guindy, after getting 24/50 in the
>entrance exam and 43% , while my brother with 42/50 in the entrance
>exam and 94% still could not get into any govt college.Are you trying

This is very untrue. Mr.Rammohan's brother might not have got guindy.
But it is untrue that his friend with only 43% got Guindy. The 
minimum cut-off percentage for bothe backward and Forward castes to
enter guindy is 70%. There have been many incidents where many BC
guys despite with more than 90% could not enter Guindy.

Anbudan,

V R Kumar


-- 
 V.R.Kumar (Ramkumar Venkatachalam)                                 
 CSIRO, Division of Information Technology                         
 P.O.Box:1599, Macquarie Centre, North Ryde, NSW 2113, AUSTRALIA  

Newsgroups: soc.culture.tamil
From: babu@jhunix.hcf.jhu.edu (Natarajan Sureshbabu)
Subject: Re: Poem on caste wars on the net
Organization: HAC - Johns Hopkins University, Baltimore
Date: Wed, 19 Aug 1992 16:19:12 GMT

In article <1992Aug19.161621.15077@jhunix.hcf.jhu.edu> babu@jhunix.hcf.jhu.edu (Natarajan Sureshbabu) writes:
>This poem is written in the same style as
>'pidiyathan uruvamai koLamiku...'
>posetd by Vicky. 
>


I forgot to mention, don't look for references, for the 
poem is mine

babu

Xref: sparky soc.culture.tamil:1175 soc.culture.indian:28645
From: sundar@indigo1.hsis.uci.edu (M. Sundaramoorthy)
Subject: Re: I HATE TAMILS (2)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.tamil,soc.culture.indian
Organization: University of California, Irvine
Date: 18 Aug 92 23:57:05 GMT
Distribution: world  

In article <1992Aug18.225035.16796@cs.wayne.edu> uds@parvathi.cs.wayne.edu (Seetamraju) writes:
>
>Sivaprasad has brilliantly brought out the two-timing nature of
>those who `defend' tamilnadu's isolation from india in general.
	
	What do you mean by Tami Nadu's isolation. By not learning
	Hindi they become isolated?. 
>
>Basically, realize this : If tamilians hate to learn AN EXTRA language
>because of hidden implications, and if that's ok : then how come
>a bunch of people's desire to be ruled in their own language is
>something to be sneered about ? eh ?  This was a thread I started
>a few months ago, regarding madras `legally and morally' belonging to AP.

	I think you need to join 'Telugu Desam' party and shout a slogan
	'madharaas manadhe'. We Telugus are comfortable being in Tamil Nadu
	and would not care even if someone goes on fast-to-death. 
	It hardly makes any difference to us whether we are ruled by
	MGR/Jayalalitha or NTR. (Of course, we have an advantage of saving
	an hour per day by not learnig a third language being in Tamil
	Nadu). You don't to shed crocodile tears for us.  

	By the way 'historically' Thirupathi belongs to Tamil Nadu.
	How about a discussion on this?.  
 
>There is nothing wrong in expressing what you wrote Mr. Parthasarathy,
>but expect such responses every time you say such garbage...
	
	There is nothing wrong in responding for garbages, but don't throw
	garbage again.
>
>I liked this particular statement by siva :
>>. I find it hypocritical
>>       for one to be against linguistic states and yet oppose Hindi.
	
	Who was against linguistic states?.             
>
>As for Hindi, a huge percentage of telugus can pronounce
>the word hindi correctly. Can I or you say the same about even 
	
	Yes. They will say 'indhi'. They can't tell the word Telugu also.
	They call it 'thelungu'. That is something do with linguistics.
	By the way how many Telugus can say 'thamizh' correctly?. 
	(of course, it is a problem for some Tamils themselves). 

>ALL educated tamilians ?  Another simple point.  just to
>illustrate, Maine Pyar Kiya ran in Hindi, all over AP.
>What about TN ?
	
	It is not a big loss. We have enough masala in Tamil and
  	don't need more.
>
>Seetamraju Udaya Bhaskar Sarma
>(email : seetam @ ece7 . eng . wayne . edu)
>

M. Sundaramoorthy
sundar@indigo1.hsis.uci.edu
From: B.Kumar@cs.ucl.ac.uk
Newsgroups: soc.culture.tamil
Subject: Curious minds wants to know... tamil..?
Date: 19 Aug 92 13:46:16 GMT

Posted to soc.culture.tamil,alt.culture.tamil,soc.culture.indian

Curious mind wants to know - What is the use of creating s.c.t and a.c.t 
if every article is simulatenouly posted on SCI as well :-)?. - Viswas.

------- Forwarded Message

BBoard-ID: 31844
BB-Posted: Wed, 19 Aug 92 07:19:59 +0100
Reply-To: soc.culture.tamil, alt.culture.tamil, soc.culture.indian
From: sp2@cec1.wustl.edu (Sundara Pandian)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.tamil,alt.culture.tamil,soc.culture.indian
Subject: Varna-ashrama dharma in the ancient Tamil civilization
Date: 19 Aug 92 00:59:54 GMT
Organization: Washington University, St. Louis Mo.

------- End of Forwarded Message
Newsgroups: soc.culture.tamil