HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: harty@westford.ccur.com (Kevin Harty)
Subject: Globalist Influence in US Government
Reply-To: harty@westford.ccur.com (Kevin Harty)
Organization: Concurrent Computer Corp. Westford MA.
Distribution: usa
Date: Mon, 25 Jan 1993 17:17:57 GMT

Posted for Pat Daly daly@ptltd.com
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
                Globalist Influence in US Government
        (information taken from the New American, Jan 25, 1993 issue)

This document date: Jan 25, 1993

Council on Foreign Relations, New York City:
    Founded 1921 by Edward Mandell House (Woodrow Wilson's chief advisor).
    As of January 1993: 2905 Members
    - 387 are "U.S. government officals" (13 % of membership)
    - 726 "business executives"
    - 607 "academic scholars and administrators"
    Some present or former members: Gerald Ford, Jimmy Carter, Walter Mondale,
        Michael Dukakis, George Bush, Bill Clinton

Trilateral Commission:
    Founded 1973 by David Rockefeller.
    Fewer than 300 members; 58 are US citizens; 35 are also CFR members.

        CFR and TC Members in US Government ("X-" indicates former member)
        ==================================================================

Bill Clinton (CFR, TC) ................ President of the United States

Foreign policy team:
    Warren Christopher (CFR, X-TC) .... Secretary of State
    Clifton R. Warton (CFR) ........... Deputy Secretary of State
    James Woolsey (CFR) ............... CIA Director
    W. Anthony Lake (CFR) ............. National Security Advisor
    Samuel Berger (CFR) ............... Deputy National Security Advisor
    Les Aspin (CFR) ................... Secretary of Defense
    William Crowe (CFR) ............... Chairman of the Foreign Intelligence
                                            Advisory Board
    Madeleine Albright (CFR) .......... Ambassador to the United Nations

Domestic Team:
    Lloyd Bensen (X-CFR)................Secretary of the Treasury
    Roger Altman (CFR)..................Deputy Secretary of the Treasury
    Donna Shalala (CFR, TC)............ Secretary of Health and Human Services
    Alice Rivlin (CFR, X-TC) ...........Deputy Director of the Office of
                                            Management and Budget
    Henry Cisneros (CFR, X-TC) ........ Secretary of Housing and Urban
                                            Development
    Laura D. Tyson (CFR) .............. Chairwoman of the Council of Economic
                                            Advisors
    Bruce Babbit (CFR, X-TC) .......... Secretary of the Interior

Notes:
    (1) Warren Christopher was Vice Chairman of CFR as recently as 1991 and a
        TC member from 1973-1987.  He served as a member of the CFR Board of
        Directors for 10 years.

    (2) From the above, the following are currently members of the CFR Board of
        Directors: Clifton Warton, Alice Rivlin, and Donna Shalala.

    (3) Bill Clinton's transition team lead by Warren Christopher (CFR, X-TC)
        and Vernon Jordan (CFR, TC)
From: monaghan@dcs.glasgow.ac.uk (N.O. Monaghan)
Newsgroups: alt.conspiracy,uk.politics
Subject: Re: Norman Lamont, his flexible friend, and Miss Whiplash
Date: 21 Jan 93 11:56:13 GMT
Distribution: uk
Organization: Glasgow University Computing Science Dept.

library@comlab.ox.ac.uk (Gordon Riddell) writes:
>It does strike me as contradictory that someone can legally not earn money
>from
>prostitution, but when they do they have to pay tax on it!

Prostitution is legal in the U.K. Soliciting for by a prostitution is
not.

---------------------------------------------------------------------
N.O. Monaghan

monaghan@dcs.gla.ac.uk
---------------------------------------------------------------------
Newsgroups: alt.conspiracy,ba.politics,ca.politics
Newsgroups: alt.conspiracy
Subject: Re: Secret Societies
From: <SCHULLER@MIAMIU.BITNET>
Date: Tuesday, 26 Jan 1993 12:33:28 EST
Organization: Miami University - Academic Computer Service

It is interesting to notice that many who KNOW that the govt has laws

against conspiracies, know that the govt porsecutes and CONVICTS people

of conspiracies, and SOMETIMES APPLAUDS such convictions (such as LaRouche

who was convicted of 4 kinds of CONSPIRACY--and no non-conspiracy) turn around

and deny the existence of conscpiracies when its suits their feelings.

    Such behavior is not cognitively based but psychologically based.

A "con-spiracy" is a "breathing together" for some common purpose.  Only

in criminal law is it for some ILLEGAL purpose--a tautogogous situation,

of course.

   Let's stick to cognition, denotation and truth--not psychosis, innuendo,

and Minitruth press releases.
Newsgroups: uk.politics,alt.conspiracy
From: gtoal@pizzabox.demon.co.uk (Graham Toal)
Subject: Re: Norman Lamont, his flexible friend, and Miss Whiplash
Organization: Cuddlehogs Anonymous
Distribution: uk
Date: Sat, 23 Jan 1993 02:00:09 GMT

In article <1993Jan22.134816.13838@infodev.cam.ac.uk> rf@cl.cam.ac.uk (Robin Fairbairns) writes:
:In article <1993Jan22.104021.19139@wraxall.inmos.co.uk>, des@inmos.co.uk (David Shepherd) writes:
:|> of her bank cards has been used subsequently to get money from a bank,
:|> I'd say it looks like a publicity stunt or a "Stonehouse".
:
:I think it was her credit card, but given the ease with which those
:things are stolen/copied and then used, it's hardly conclusive
:evidence of her remaining alive.

She just turned up in Florida.  And guess what - she's writing (ghosted
actually) an autobiography.  Are we surprised...???

G
Newsgroups: alt.conspiracy,alt.activism,alt.society.civil-liberty,alt.individualism,alt.censorship,misc.headlines,soc.culture.usa,misc.activism.progressive
From: rburns@StarConn.com (Randall J. Burns)
Subject: Re: Jewish Bankers
Organization: Starnet-Public Access UNIX--Los Altos, CA  415-949-3133
Date: Tue, 26 Jan 1993 01:08:45 GMT

In article <1k1jf7INNhmf@usenet.INS.CWRU.Edu> cj195@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (John W. Redelfs) writes:
>
>In a previous article, thf2@ellis.uchicago.edu (Ted Frank) says:
>
>Quote that Ted Frank is responding to:
>>>Personally, I see Gritz's speculation in the same vein as the attempts
>>>of ignorant people to attempt to undertand the dynamics of organized
>>>crime-and Mr. Frank's comments in the vein of comments that attempted
>>>to deny the existance of the Mafia.
>>
>>And what evidence do you have of a "Jewish banking Mafia"?
>>-- 
>Do you admit the possibility, Ted, that there might be a multicultural
>banking Mafia?  If there is no evidence that there is one, is there any
>evidence that there is not one?
Just for the record:
1) I tend to think that to the extent that there are "banking mafia's"
  the multicultural mafia's tend to be more important than the ethnic
  mafia's.

2) This does not mean that ethnic Mafia's do not exist. The Meyer Lansky
   organization is an example of an organization that served as a
   bridge between ethnic mafia's. (Meyer Lansky was Lucky Luciano's banker
   and at one time one of the ten wealthiest men in America. He probably
   lived up to the negative stereotype of a criminal Jewish banker
   better than any man about which solid information exists. )

3) Just as Mr. Lansky steadfastly claimed to be "a poor man living on a
   pension(and Mr. Frank denies the existance of any Jewish equivalent
   to the Sicilian Mafia) Mr. Gritz tends to endow such an organization
   with supernatural powers.

-------------------------

The bigger problem as I see it, is that it is so difficult to discuss 
this whole issue and look at it critically. I tend to think that the 
truth probably lies in between Mr. Frank and Mr. Gritz and that 
_both_ are engaging in ethnic posturing on this issue.


The real question is:
  To what extent are ethnic mafias and organized crime important in the
  world of international business and finance?

>Doesn't the BCCI scandal demonstrate that such a thing can happen?  How
>can we be sure that BCCI was the whole problem?  Maybe it was just the
>tip of the iceberg?
I tend to agree with this statement. BCCI, was in many respects an
example of an ethnic mafia(in this case an Arab one) that used etnic
cohesion to bilk people outside their own ethnic group.
.
From: f_gautjw@ccsvax.sfasu.edu
Newsgroups: alt.conspiracy
Subject: Re: What the Trilateralists truly intend
Date: 23 Jan 93 11:35:30 CST
Organization: Stephen F. Austin State University

In article <1993Jan23.101841.24973@midway.uchicago.edu>, thf2@ellis.uchicago.edu (Ted Frank) writes:
> In article <1jr0doINNciq@usenet.INS.CWRU.Edu> cj195@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (John W. Redelfs) writes:
>>> Foreign Affairs prints opinion pieces of widely diverging 
>>>viewpoints.

[deleted]

>>Since objectivity is ALWAYS absent in any publication, it behooves the
>>reader to ask himself, "What axe is being ground here?"  The axe ground
>>over time by FOREIGN AFFAIRS is the axe of globalism.  They want to see
>>a New World Order, a global government.
> 
> 
> 2) What evidence do you have that this is true in the first place?
> 
You want evidence?  Grab a copy...any copy...and invest 15 minutes browsing
through it.  

-Joe Gaut
From: mfriley@pacman.WPI.EDU (Margaret F Riley)
Newsgroups: alt.conspiracy
Subject: Re: Document puts Bush 'in the loop' on Iran-Contra
Date: 28 Jan 93 17:53:04 GMT
Organization: Worcester Polytechnic Institute
NNTP-Posting-Host: pacman.wpi.edu

In article <9301251956.AA21278@pizzabox.demon.co.uk> gtoal@pizzabox.demon.co.uk (Graham Toal) writes:
>The Guardian, (UK) Mon Jan 25, p7
>
>A document in the hands of Iran-contra prosecutors indicates that
>George Bush asked President Jose' Azcona Hoyo of Honduras in 1986
>to help secretly move guns to the Nicaraguan contras.
>---
>
>Hey, does this mean he *lied* to you folks?  Tsk tsk...
>
>G

You might have noticed he is no longer the President.

Margaret
Newsgroups: alt.conspiracy
From: ad626@yfn.ysu.edu (Steve Crocker)
Subject: Re: CFR
Organization: Youngstown State/Youngstown Free-Net
Date: Mon, 25 Jan 1993 06:08:39 GMT


Ted, your attempts at reason would be funny if they weren't so pathetic.
What evidence would I accept? What evidence have you presented? If  you
could show me covincing indications that the CFR membership as published
is false, that the organizational positions attributed to these individuals 
in various reference works are not the ones they actually hold, that they 
do not use the ideas presented by various speakers at CFR events as a 
conceptual basis for their decision making, that they don't network with
one another and that that they don't talk about politics, economics or
current events at CFR functions, then I might consider the possibility
that your stance had some merit. Good luck.
 
Your comparison with a golf club reaches new heights. May I simply remind
you that unlike a golf club, the AVOWED PURPOSE of the CFR is to discuss 
"policy". You seem to be unwilling to acknowledge that. Also, the practice
of requiring members not to reveal what is discussed at sessions seems to
indicate something a little heavier than the casual social outing. 
 
Also, you are missing the point if you think I brought up the fact that 
much of what the CFR does is publically known as EVIDENCE of their
conspiratorial nature. Their conspiratorial nature is obvious "prima
facie" simply by combining the names on the membership list with the
avowed purpose of the organization. My pointing out how much of this
stuff occurs at least semi-openly was descriptive, not evidentiary.
For precedents see Poe's "The Purloined Letter". You may also be 
interested in H.G. Wells's "The Open Conspiracy", Marylin Ferguson's
"The Aquarian Conspiracy" or any historical material on the Fabian 
Society, which also practiced semi-public conspiratorial methods.
 
Ted, I suggest that if you want to defend the CFR against the kind
of criticism they get here, you might want to find out a little 
more about them. On the other hand, perhaps when defending 
consistently incorrect positions, ignorance is actually an asset. 
It is a good way to keep from getting confused by the facts.
 
-Steve
Newsgroups: alt.conspiracy
From: nelson_p@apollo.hp.com (Peter Nelson)
Subject: Re: CFR
Date: Tue, 26 Jan 1993 10:50:33 GMT
Organization: Hewlett-Packard Corporation, Chelmsford, MA

In article <1993Jan25.060839.2467@news.ysu.edu> ad626@yfn.ysu.edu (Steve Crocker) writes:
>Ted, your attempts at reason would be funny if they weren't so pathetic.
>What evidence would I accept? What evidence have you presented? If  you
>could show me covincing indications that the CFR membership as published
>is false, that the organizational positions attributed to these individuals 
>in various reference works are not the ones they actually hold, that they 
>do not use the ideas presented by various speakers at CFR events as a 
>conceptual basis for their decision making, that they don't network with
>one another and that that they don't talk about politics, economics or
>current events at CFR functions, then I might consider the possibility
>that your stance had some merit. Good luck.
> 
>Also, you are missing the point if you think I brought up the fact that 
>much of what the CFR does is publically known as EVIDENCE of their
>conspiratorial nature. Their conspiratorial nature is obvious "prima
>facie" simply by combining the names on the membership list with the
>avowed purpose of the organization.

  It's only "prima facia" in your opinion.   I find nothing 
  wrong with the simpler model that powerful people with similar
  educational or cultural backgrounds may find a great deal in 
  common, including goals and views and act accordingly.  This
  is not a conspiracy.  

  Just out of curiosity, what would you cite as some examples 
  of actual conspiratorial behavior among these members.  In
  other words, could you please cite two or three specific
  instances of policy decisions that you feel were made as a
  result of a CFR conspiracy.


---peter
Organization: The American University - University Computing Center
Date: Tue, 26 Jan 1993 21:19:18 EST
From: Robert B. MacMillan <RMACMIL@auvm.american.edu>
Newsgroups: alt.conspiracy
Subject: Re: Foucault

i heartily second the suggestion of reading focault's pendulum for this
purpose.  it's incredible.
Newsgroups: alt.conspiracy
From: harty@westford.ccur.com (Kevin Harty)
Subject: What the Trilateralists truly intend
Reply-To: harty@westford.ccur.com (Kevin Harty)
Organization: Concurrent Computer Corp. Westford MA.
Distribution: usa
Date: Fri, 22 Jan 1993 16:05:23 GMT

 Posted for Pat Daly daly@ptltd.com
--------------------------------------------------------------------

"What the Trilateralists truly intend is the creation of a worldwide
economic power superior to the political power of the nation/states
involved...As managers and creators of this system, they will rule the
future." -- Barry Goldwater, from his book "With No Apologies", 1979




"An end run around national sovereignty, eroding it piece by piece, is likely
to get us to world order faster than the old-fashioned frontal attack."
-- Council on Foreign Relations member Richard Gardner from his article
   "Hard Road to World Order" in CFR journal "Foreign Affairs", April 1974.
   (Gardner is now a Clinton advisor.  He was a former Deputy Assistant
   Secretary of State, and a former Ambassador to Italy)
From: jyoung@terapin.com (Jeff Young)
Newsgroups: alt.conspiracy.jfk
Subject: Conspiracy Files ????
Date: 26 Jan 93 14:25:30 GMT
Organization: BBS

Does anyone know the fate of the files recently released concerning the
assasination. A few months ago I saw a picture in the newspaper showing a huge
stack of papers (looked to be about 20' long by 5' high), these were
purportedly the remaining files that congress had withheld> Since this article
I have seen nothing more. Is there an official body looking these over?? Do the
contain the remaining autopsy photos?? what about the files that would not be
released for 75 years??? What are there fate??
Also can anyone help me with a reference to another BBS that has files
concerning assasination of j.f.k/r.f.k. Does the archive in Dallas have a BBS
or the one in D.C. I have just started to look into BBS'S as a source for
though on this subject, any help will be greatly appreciated. Thank you.
From: 6489mcadamsj@vms.csd.mu.edu (John McAdams)
Newsgroups: alt.conspiracy.jfk
Subject: Re: Conspiracy
Date: 27 Jan 1993 00:53:15 GMT
Organization: Marquette University - Computer Services
Reply-To: 6489mcadamsj@vms.csd.mu.edu
NNTP-Posting-Host: vmsa.csd.mu.edu

In article <1993Jan26.193758.14554@samba.oit.unc.edu>, rdaniels@gibbs.oit.unc.edu (Robert E. Daniels) writes:

>>
>>We do know that Jack Ruby was at Western Union wiring money to a stripper about
>>an hour *after* Oswald was supposed to be brought out of the police department. 
>>He then walked over about 11:20 and walked right down a ramp into the basement
>>where Oswald was brought.  If he had been *assigned* to kill Oswald, or had a
>>well-formed intention to kill Oswald, he would have been waiting on Oswald.
>
>Or the police in charge of moving Oswald were waiting for Ruby to show up.

OK, you think the Dallas Police were in on The Conspiracy.

Then why did they bother to arrest Oswald at all?  Why not kill him while he is
"resisting arrest."

But why did I put "resisting arrest" in quotes?  Oswald did resist arrest,
drawing his gun when confronted in the Texas Theater.  That would have been a
*great* time to kill him, if the Dallas Police had wanted him dead.

>>
>>Given Ruby's personality, it is both difficult to believe conspirators would
>>trust him with such an important assignment, and easy to believe he would do it
>>on the spur of the moment.
>>
>Given Ruby's history as a strong-arm hood since his youth, and given his
>financial problems at the time, it's quite possible that he was sent on
>assignment to try to get Oswald -- and if caught was a better risk than
>Oswald to keep his mouth shut, or be treated as expendable.
>

Why was Ruby a better risk that Oswald?

"Strong-arm hood" is misleading, since it implies a steely-eyed, highly
disciplined killer.  Ruby was highly undisciplined, and was a blabbermouth to
boot.

.John
From: eds001@acad.drake.edu
Newsgroups: alt.conspiracy.jfk
Subject: Oswald and Bush
Date: 27 Jan 93 04:59:04 GMT
Organization: Drake University, Des Moines, Iowa, USA

Now that the motive for Oswald to kill jfk because he wanted to be someone is
discredited.  Can anyone else tell me why he did it?  There were only a few
groups of people that might have wanted him dead (and one is not Oswald).  The
question is which one of these groups had the ability to do it?  I think all of
them did, but which one could keep things very quiet?  

I would like to think just one man did it, but the evidence doesn't show me
that.  There is to much coincidence that happened that day.  

What kind of tree was in front of window that Oswald was suppose to be shooting
out of.  I believe it still had all it's leaves.  Is there anyway he could have
shot around the tree?  Is it possible to hit something moving with three shots
and a bolt action?  
I'm still wondering why he would have waited until he was moving away from him
to shoot.  He had a better shot as jfk was headed right for him.  I would like
to somehow set this all up and react it to see everything happen that has been
released.  Speaking of being released, when are all the files suppose to be
released?  and is there any hope that now Bush is (sadly) gone that the files
might be opened early?  Could pres-elect clinton open them early?  Is it true
that President Bush was the head of the CIA at that time?


Eric
From: 6489mcadamsj@vms.csd.mu.edu (John McAdams)
Newsgroups: alt.conspiracy.jfk
Subject: Re: <None>
Date: 26 Jan 1993 00:05:00 GMT
Organization: Marquette University - Computer Services
Reply-To: 6489mcadamsj@vms.csd.mu.edu
NNTP-Posting-Host: vmsd.csd.mu.edu

In article <1993Jan25.120156.1@acad.drake.edu>, eds001@acad.drake.edu writes:

>ok i'm new at this so bear with me.  I have read several things on the
>assination of JFK and I can not believe the WC.  
>First, can anyone tell me why Oswald would want to do this all by himself?
>What motive did he have?  

Because he was a nobody, and a failure, and he wanted to be a somebody.  A
perverted way of thinking, but the way in which some people demonstrably
think.

Some people think his Marxism was a motivation.  That isn't inconsistent with
what I just wrote.  But I think he was the sort who was going to adhere to some
twisted ideology regardless.  

You're not implying, in your question, that you think everybody has to have a
rational motive, are you?

>Why would the secrect service allow the limo to make
>that unusual corner of about 120 degrees, when it states in the secrect service
>manual that the presidents car is not to make a corner of more than 90 degrees?
>Just a few questions.  I would like to get some good answers.

OK, *does* the Secret Service Manual actually say this?  Did the Manual in
effect in 1963 say this?

I ask because, if you start looking into this, that there are a *vast* number
of assertions that people make with no basis in fact.

.John
Newsgroups: alt.conspiracy.jfk
From: michael@neuron6.jpl.nasa.gov (Michael Rivero)
Subject: Re: conspiracy
Organization: JPL Pasadena CA
Date: Sun, 24 Jan 1993 18:31:11 GMT

In article <schuck.727850602@sfu.ca> Bruce_Schuck@sfu.ca writes:
>6489mcadamsj@vms.csd.mu.edu (John McAdams) writes:
>
>>How about Rober Sam Anson's claim that Zapruder heard a bullet "whiz by his
>>head."  Turns out that Zapruder never said such a thing.
>
>He heard a gunshot from behind him, as did Will Newman who was
>standing near Zapruder.
>
>>How about the claim that the gun discovered on the sixth floor of the School
>>Book Depository was "really a Mauser?"  Actually, the officers who discovered
>>it said it was a Mauser because, they said, "it looked like a Mauser."  And
>>indeed a MC does look like a Mauser.
>
>If you don't know anything about guns. The officers who found the
>rifle did know about guns.

  The officers actually testified that the rifle had the Mauser trademark
on the barrel. Whereas the M-Carcano would be the worst weapon to choose
for an assasination (it's only possible reason for having been chosen was it's
importation into Cuba at the time), the Mauser was then considered the world's
best sniper weapon.





>
>>How about the claim that Oswald is actually standing on the front steps of the
>>School Book Depository, and is visible in a photo taken at the time of the
>>assassination?
>
>The photo exists and it looks like Oswald.

  I have a copy of this, and it does indeed appear to be Oswald. I
emailed a GIF of this to several people in this group last year. Perhaps
some kind soul could put in in an ftp site?

>
>
>>If it wasn't, why would a conspiracy plant such a weapon? 
>>Presumably the conspiracy had the resources to plant any weapon they wanted?

  As mentioned above, the MC was being imported to Cuba by Castro at the
time. This came out recently during a documentary on Castro's fight
to keep the US from trying a second cuban invasion. The films included
cuban newsreel shots of citizens being issued the italian made rifles,
which were the least expensive infantry arms available to Castro in quantity.



-- 
Michael Rivero michael%neuron6@jpl-mil.jpl.nasa.gov