HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: anderson@macc.wisc.edu (Jess Anderson)
Subject: Re: GOP's future; living with the enemy
Organization: Madison Academic Computing Center, UW-Madison
Date: Sun, 8 Nov 92 10:59:46 GMT


In article <BxDqur.2x3@world.std.com> jcf@world.std.com
(Joseph C Fineman) writes:

>The failure of the "religious war" declared at the
>Republican conventions strikes me as further evidence of a
>widespread demoralization of malice in our day.

"Demoralization of malice" is certainly a ringing phrase.
But I am less persuaded than you seem to be that there's a
phenomenon to accompany it.  The "religious war" partisans
may not have scored a complete victory, but they certainly
were not routed, either.  It isn't even a week since the
election and we already have news of their further
intentions.

>Most Americans, it seems, are not willing to blame their
>troubles on persons of some conveniently distant race,
>religion, or sexual persuasion.

I think the evidence for that is pretty slender, too.  A
majority of Americans voted for candidates one would have a
hard time calling champions of civil liberties.  Whether
that is tantamount to blaming their troubles on others (what
is a "conveniently distant <x>," btw?), I'm not prepared to
say.

However, I would endorse a lot of what you say about the War
on Drugs in general and William Bennett in particular.  He is
a real scumbag.

-- 
Jess Anderson <> Madison Academic Computing Center <> University of Wisconsin
Internet: anderson@macc.wisc.edu <-best, UUCP:{}!uwvax!macc.wisc.edu!anderson
Room 3130 <> 1210 West Dayton Street / Madison WI 53706 <> Phone 608/262-5888
<>  <>  <> Discrimination, Bigotry, and Hate are not Family Values <>  <>  <>
Xref: sparky soc.motss:47410 alt.politics.homosexuality:7169 co.politics:1952
From: cfthb@ux1.cts.eiu.edu (Howard Black)
Newsgroups: soc.motss,alt.politics.homosexuality,co.politics
Subject: Re: Colorado Amendment 2: The First Fatality
Date: 13 Nov 92 16:45:23 GMT
Article-I.D.: ux1.1992Nov13.164523.35010
Organization: Eastern Illinois University

In article <1992Nov13.005821.12780@ncar.ucar.edu> gary@colossus.cgd.ucar.edu (Gary Strand) writes:
>
>tf> No gay group or organization has ever been interested in quotas.  
>
>  Any proof? Actually, I suppose they wouldn't, because then their sexuality

    It is not up to Tim to prove that gays have not been interested in
quotas.  If you assert that they have, it is up to you to prove it.

>  would be known to others. Then, of course, if your employer doesn't know
>  that you're gay, how can she use that as a reason to fire you, and second-
>  ly, as I've stated many times before, just because she *can* fire you for
>  being gay doesn't mean she *will* fire you for being gay.

    Nope, it doesn't mean that she will.  But, so may *have*, that it is in
our interests to make it specifically illegal.

-- 
   ******************************************************************
     Howard Black                             cfthb@ux1.cts.eiu.edu
     Department of Chemistry                  Eastern Illinois Univ.
From: adolphso@mizar.usc.edu (adolphson)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: Orange County Went Democrat?
Date: 9 Nov 1992 18:00:25 -0800
Organization: University of Southern California, Los Angeles, CA
NNTP-Posting-Host: mizar.usc.edu

In article <1992Nov9.182418.24390@gordian.com> 
mike@gordian.com (Michael A. Thomas) writes:
> In article <1di0oqINNiu1@mizar.usc.edu>, 
> adolphso@mizar.usc.edu (adolphson) writes:

> > Clinton did not campaign heavily in Orange or any other
> > California county.  He almost didn't campaign here at all.

>   Actually, that's wrong. He was here at Pacific Amphitheater
> (in Costa Misery) about a week before the election -- most
> of my office went and the area adjoining was in gridlock. 
>   If memory serves, he was here in OC once before that. He has
> also had a number of meetings with a lot of local republican
> cash cows who ended up defecting.

Two public visits and a series of closed door meetings 
are not what I call campaigning heavily.  A friend of 
mine in Pennsylvania saw Clinton three times in the 
space of a couple of weeks.  

> There is also talk about a concerted effort to get rid of Dornan 
> at all costs calling him an 'embarrassment to the party'.

Is this a concerted effort by Republicans to get rid
of him?  I think he's an embarrassment *period*.  I wonder
what the Republicans are going to do when Dannemeyer
decides which race to enter (for Senator or governor)
in 1994.

Arne
From: nelson@reed.edu (Nelson Minar)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: Pat Robertson, Buchanan, Helms, VOTE!!!
Date: 6 Nov 92 03:26:25 GMT
Article-I.D.: reed.1992Nov6.032625.25433
Reply-To: nelson@reed.edu (Nelson Minar)
Organization: Reed College, Portland, OR

In article <1dcj77INNhq3@mizar.usc.edu> adolphso@mizar.usc.edu (adolphson) writes:
>Which Republican Party are you referring to that comes remotely close
>to the Democratic Party with regard to civil liberties?

The one from a century ago, Arne! Isn't it obvious?

I hope the religious right and the "moderate" conservatives can't come
to an agreement, and the two split, and then they all lose. That's
what the OCA has been up to here in the past - they cost the
Republicans the Governership, and almost cost them Packwood's US
Senate seat (Packwood kissed the OCA's ass and kept them away).

Expect a huge fight within the Oregon Republican Party, especially
since the chair of said party filmed No on 9 ads two weeks before the
election. Big time doo-doo. I hope they tear each other apart.
                __
nelson@reed.edu \/     What in this room is alive and what doesn't have life?
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: solovay@netcom.com (Andrew Solovay)
Subject: Civil liberties and the two parties (was Re: Pat Robertson...)
Organization: International Irony League -- Death before smileys!
Date: Fri, 6 Nov 1992 19:29:00 GMT

In article <1dcj77INNhq3@mizar.usc.edu> adolphso@mizar.usc.edu (adolphson) writes:
>In article <1992Nov6.001702.8730@netcom.com> 
>solovay@netcom.com (Andrew Solovay) writes:
>
>> And on civil liberties, it's more or less a wash between the two
>> parties, as always.
>
>That is egregiously false.  Which Republican Party are
>you referring to that comes remotely close to the Democratic
>Party with regard to civil liberties?

On matters such as right to property, contract, free association,
right to keep and bear arms, and many others, the Republican
Party is far stronger than the Democrats. I regard these as civil
liberty issues.

On freedom of speech and of the press, it's a dead heat.
Republicans are somewhat more likely to censor obscenity (though
feminism has taken a censorious turn of late). Democrats are
enthusiastic about censoring various forms of insensitivity; viz.
hate crimes laws, which all (in one way or another) punish people
for their thoughts. Similarly, on the freedom to control one's
own body, both parties are fairly bad; for example, both think
it's the government's place to tell us what drugs we may and may
not use.

On matters like abortion and gay rights, the Democrats are
somewhat better then Republicans; and Democrats don't use
pronography as grounds for a crusade (though few of them seem
willing to defend it in public). And, of course, it was a
Republican president who appointed a pornography user to the high
court.

As I said, civil liberties don't give much of a reason to choose
-- 
Andrew M. Solovay	    "Until there was rock, you only had God."
					--Ziggy Stardust

#include <disclaimer.h>
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: balistik@big-brother.nevada.edu (Shawn Hicks)
Subject: Re: Colorado's Amendment 2
Organization: Not yet, but we're working on it...
Date: Sun, 8 Nov 1992 04:12:36 GMT

In article <1992Nov6.174236.15946@gordian.com>, mike@gordian.com (Michael A. Thomas) writes:
>In article <1992Nov6.091201.18070@lclark.edu>, snodgras@lclark.edu (Bil Snodgrass) writes:
>> This is the big one.  Colorado Springs has Five military instillations.
>> the Air Force Academy, Petersonfield, Fort Carson, Cheynne Mountain and
>> a thingy out northeast of the city!  They are very dependent on federal
>> funding!  Soooooo.
>
>  One wonders how much of a correlation the military presence in Colorado 
>Springs has to do with the hatred and bigotry toward gays and lesbians.
>I wonder whether it is cause or effect of military vs. bigotry, ie
>is it that people that join the military are more prone to be rednecks
>from Hickville (sorry Shawn) or does the military actually instill
>this hatred from their machoesque culture -- or a combination of
>both.
>  In either case, it seems that lifting the military ban would be a 
>major boon to gay people everywhere.


Most everyone I worked with in the Air Force knew I was gay.
To kick me out they had to prove it, but that isn't hard,
really.  If there was any overt discrimination against me,
I didn't know about it.  Actually, I think the Military is
not as macho-centered and biggoted as most people might 
think.  Please keep in mind, though, that the Air Force
has a completely different culture than the Marines or Army.
Inter-racial marriages are quite common in the military, and
I don't recall any problems with it.  Many of these marriages
are Black/White.  I would suspect that the biggest problem
isn't the military per se, but the affects of living in
a 'Christian' Fundamentalist culture.  If everyone around
you is anti-homo, and vocally so, you might be more inclined
to vote in that direction if you have no real care either way.
With all the measures, candidates, etc, on the ballot, it is
difficult to gather complete information on them all.  Oft 
times, people just listen to their friends, neighbors, and
even people who sit next to them on the bus, for a feeling
on how to vote.  


No offense taken from "Hickville," at least as long as you
don't name me mayor...  ;)

Shawn
From: bgonzal@math.rutgers.edu (Bil Gonzalez)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: best remake of gay song
Summary: was WORST remake of "gay" song
Date: 10 Nov 92 18:56:13 GMT
Article-I.D.: math.Nov.10.13.56.13.1992.19564
Organization: Rutgers Univ., New Brunswick, N.J.

In article <1992Nov10.155743.25532@u.washington.edu>, rhiann@carson.u.washington.edu (Sandra Hereld) writes:
> I noticed Dave Barry is having a contest for worst rock song, and worst
> rock lyrics. 
> We need something a little more motss oriented.
> Votes for worst straight singer remake of a 'gay' song ...and...

Actually, on the other side, one of my favorite remakes is
Cyndi Lauper's remake of Prince's WHEN YOU WERE MINE.

When Prince sang it, you thought that he was singing to a girl, but
references nights spent in bed with her and her new boyfriend...
"..Sleeping in between the two of us" (current mental block regarding
total lyrical content - help?!) and "I know that you're sleeping with
another guy".

When CL sang it, she didn't change the lyrics, so you don't know if
she's singing to her girlfriend/lover, or her boyfriend/lover who is
sleeping with another man.  It really leaves you wondering...

Bil Gonzalez
--------------------------------------------------------------------
"See the nice boys dancing in pairs
 Golden earing, golden tan and glow wave in their hair
 Sure they're all straight, as straight as a line
 All the gays are macho can't you see their leather shine

 You don't want to sound dumb, don't want to offend
 So don't call me a faggot not unless you are a friend
 Then if you're tall and handsome and strong
 You can wear the uniform and I can play along..."
			-Joe Jackson, REAL MEN
--------------------------------------------------------------------
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: mhr@hpuerca.atl.hp.com (Mike Reaser)
Subject: Re: Pink dollar, red circle slash...
Date: Wed, 11 Nov 1992 18:31:33 GMT
Organization: a stone mountain of Kudzu

In <1992Nov7.004904.29643@reed.edu> nelson@reed.edu (Nelson Minar) writes:

>In article <1992Nov6.203022.22584@nevada.edu> balistik@big-brother.nevada.edu (Shawn Hicks) writes:
>>The Triangle works.  It's simple.  It's pink.

>yeah, but it looks awful against typical white-person skin. I was
>trying to find a pink triangle earring to wear, because I like the
>idea of always being identified as queer but I'm too lazy to transfer
>a button around from shirt to shirt. But pink triangle earrings look
>terrible against my sortof pink skin.
>                __
>nelson@reed.edu \/                                    D is for lots of things

Look for the earrings a friend of mine has:  pink triangles on a
dark lavender (i.e., purple) background.

With the "buffering" of the lavender backs, the pink triangles stand
out and _don't_ fade into Joe's also "sortof pink skin".

Don't know whre he got them -- I'll try to find out and post.

--
=======================================================================
 Mike Reaser, Hewlett-Packard N. Amer. Response Center - Atlanta
 Internet:  mhr@hpuerca.atl.hp.com
 NBCS: B4 f w g+ k s-               I barely speak for myself, so
 #include <standard.disclaimer>       don't make me speak for HP
=======================================================================
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: anderson@macc.wisc.edu (Jess Anderson)
Subject: Nimble Stumbles (was Re: Social Democracy)
Organization: Madison Academic Computing Center, UW-Madison
Date: Sat, 7 Nov 92 20:23:01 GMT


In article <19921104231241ECL4JN2@MVS.OAC.UCLA.EDU>
ECL4JN2@MVS.OAC.UCLA.EDU (Jack B. Nimble) writes:

>In article <1992Oct29.144628.17786@tc.cornell.edu>
>shore@dinah.tc.cornell.edu (Melinda Shore) writes:

>>'Splain to us again, why don't you, why calling someone a
>>"totalitarian Tinkerbell of the left" isn't homophobic.

>However, the remark is not homophobic because I am not
>homophobic.  Simple as that.

Duck-walk, duck-talk, we got a duck here.  George Wallace
used to say he wasn't a racist, too.  You're quacking pretty
loud there, buster.

>Looks like you didn't get it, Melinda.  For someone too lame
>for words you nevertheless expended a bundleful on me.

Sounds like a Melmac clone, plastic that eats attention.

>Jack B. Newsbaum
[bank be scum jaw]

-- 
Jess Anderson <> Madison Academic Computing Center <> University of Wisconsin
Internet: anderson@macc.wisc.edu <-best, UUCP:{}!uwvax!macc.wisc.edu!anderson
Room 3130 <> 1210 West Dayton Street / Madison WI 53706 <> Phone 608/262-5888
<>  <>  <> Discrimination, Bigotry, and Hate are not Family Values <>  <>  <>
From: bcapps@agora.rain.com (Brent Capps)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: Boycott Worse than Pointless
Date: 6 Nov 92 02:21:42 GMT
Article-I.D.: agora.Bx9vw7.313
Organization: Open Communications Forum

mattm@apple.com (Matthew Melmon) writes:

>Ergo, a boycott will have *no* *impact* on the resolution of
>the crisis in Colorado.

Beside the point.  GLB in the 49 other states *must* make an example
of Colorado to check the disease from spreading further.  It's more than
just pressure for Coloradans to reverse their decision, it's now a
vital matter of self-defense.

I would have urged the same had M9 passed here.  And I would have
led the way by doing all my shopping in Vancouver, WA.

To avoid hurting our supporters in Springfield OR, we made the mistake of
not boycotting that town after they passed their mini-9 this last May, and
it nearly cost us dearly as the fall election approached and the OCA pointed
to Springfield as an example of how little economic fallout would occur
if M9 passed.

The OCA is already preparing a Colorado-style initiative for Oregon
for 1994.  We raised the economic impact as a major issue this time,
if we don't punish Colorado now there will be no stopping them next time.

BOYCOTT COLORADO!  We won't get a second chance.
-- 
Brent Capps                          | 
bcapps@agora.rain.com (gay stuff)    | okay, but wash it first.
bcapps@atlastele.com (telecom stuff) |
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: henry@ADS.COM (Henry Mensch)
Subject: Re: Okay, what makes a Gay or Lesbian turn Republican?
Organization: Advanced Decision Systems; a div of Booz, Allen & Hamilton
Date: Sun, 8 Nov 1992 05:48:26 GMT

lovegod@wam.umd.edu (Donald Andrew Agarrat) wrote: 
->I think that it's something genetic.  There is the homosexual  
->gene and the Republican gene.  Surely one overpowers the other!

i think you're a fucking moron.  honestly.

whatever makes you think that gay people ought be predisposed to one
political philosophy or another?  

--
# henry mensch / booz, allen & hamilton, inc.  / <henry@ads.com>
# "fight the real enemy."  -- sinead o'connor, and many others.
# for information on the league for programming freedom, 
# write to lpf@uunet.uu.net
Newsgroups: soc.motss,alt.politics.homosexuality,co.politics
From: gary@colossus.cgd.ucar.edu (Gary Strand)
Subject: Re: Colorado Amendment 2: The First Fatality
Organization: Climate and Global Dynamics Division/NCAR, Boulder, CO
Date: Thu, 12 Nov 1992 23:22:11 GMT

tc> Tom Christiansen
gs> Gary Strand

gs> #2 does not deny homosexuals equal rights. It denies the the ability of 
    the state to create quotas for gays, or give gays minority status, and 
    it denies gays the use of the legal system to correct alleged cases of 
    discrimination.

tc> "denies gays use of legal system ... cases of discrimination."

  There are other alternatives.

tc> *THAT* is clearly denying of equal rights.  Anyone who isn't straight may
    be fired or turned away from housing or public services for no other
    reason than how they are, and you have wiped out their legal recourse.
    What other group has ever been so singled out in this country?  It makes a
    joke of "equal protection under the law".  

  Nope. "Equal protection under the law" means that one cannot single out any
  one group or person for different treatment when the law's been broken, ie,
  a white killing a black can't be given probation when a black killing a white
  gets the death penalty. The law has to apply equally to everybody, ie, the
  "rule of law" means just that.

tc> If you're straight in Boulder and fired because of it, not only can you
    sue, but that employer has broken a local ordinance. If you're gay, tough.

  As I understand it, that's true. #2 should have repealed all laws that use
  sexual orientation, period, as grounds for anti-discrimination protection.
  That way, straights and gays are in the same boat.

tc> I don't care if the majority voted for it.  THAT DOESN'T MAKE IT RIGHT.

  Obviously.

tc> And it's not clear that the majority actually consciously voted for this
    abomination.  The deceptive Center for Nazi^WChristian Values, lied and
    slurred and deceived the public. Many people who voted "yes" thought they
    were voting away quotas and special rights, 

  Is that what people who voted "yes" said, or is that merely what you think?

tc> when in fact they were voting away equal rights.  There were no quotas or 
    special rights.

  Not yet, at least. It's well-known that the best way for an employer to
  avoid charges of discrimination is to enact a quota system, or to alter
  the balance between one set of employees and another set by race-norming
  test scores, or some other method. I'm quite sure that if #2 had not pas-
  sed, we'd be seeing lawsuits brought against companies because less than
  10% of their workforce was gay, ergo they discriminated against gays. This
  pattern has gone on for some time, and I don't see why it wouldn't be used
  to "protect" gays as well.
--
Gary Strand                      Opinions stated herein are mine alone and are
strandwg@ncar.ucar.edu            not representative of NCAR, UCAR, or the NSF
Newsgroups: soc.motss,alt.politics.homosexuality,co.politics
From: gandalf@dworkin.ccs.northeastern.edu (Thomas M Farrell)
Subject: Re: Colorado Amendment 2: The First Fatality
Organization: College of Computer Science, Northeastern University
	<1992Nov12.023819.2789@ncar.ucar.edu>
	<1992Nov12.164147.29394@craycos.com>
	<1992Nov12.191913.8438@ncar.ucar.edu>
Date: Fri, 13 Nov 1992 15:05:56 GMT

In article <1992Nov12.191913.8438@ncar.ucar.edu> gary@colossus.cgd.ucar.edu (Gary Strand) writes:

   It does not deny homosexuals equal rights. It denies the the ability of the
   ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
   state to create quotas for gays, or give gays minority status, and it denies
                                                                      ^^^^^^^^^
   gays the use of the legal system to correct alleged cases of discrimination.
   ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Your self contradictions are showing, Dahlink.

			-Tom
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: gsmith@clio.iwr.uni-heidelberg.de (Gene W. Smith)
Subject: Re: ok, let me try this again
Organization: IWR, University of Heidelberg, Germany
Date: Wed, 11 Nov 92 18:23:04 GMT

In article <1992Nov10.180920.29554@Princeton.EDU>
spencer@phoenix.princeton.edu (S. Spencer Sun) writes:

>IMHO, soc.motss should be for gay-related conversations.

IMHO, anything John Dorrance says is gay related.  Some of us don't
have this particular talent, but he seems to.  (No, I am not saying
anything a glb says is glb-related.)




-- 
     Gene Ward Smith/Brahms Gang/IWR/Ruprecht-Karls University 
               gsmith@kalliope.iwr.uni-heidelberg.de
From: bcapps@agora.rain.com (Brent Capps)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: MOTSS pix
Date: 2 Nov 92 22:29:15 GMT
Article-I.D.: agora.Bx414s.Hs7
Organization: Open Communications Forum

anderson@macc.wisc.edu (Jess Anderson) writes:


>In article <27572@castle.ed.ac.uk> jaw@castle.ed.ac.uk
>(Graeme Wood) writes:

>>PS. Why is it when I rup ursa-major.spdcc.com I get the reply:
>>
>>ursa-major.s    up 8338 days, 14:57,    load average: 0.27, 1.17, 3.37

>What about that, Steve, have you had it up since you were 14?
>8338 days is 22.8 years!

Is this a UNIX machine?  If so you need a commemorative plaque, 'cause
at 22.8 years the last down time would have had to have been in early 1970.
What are you using, a PDP-7?

About time to do an fsck -y /dev/root, I'd say...
-- 
Brent Capps                          | 
bcapps@agora.rain.com (gay stuff)    | okay, but wash it first.
bcapps@atlastele.com (telecom stuff) |
From: czmt@gibbs.oit.unc.edu (Season Marie Taylor)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Madonna & Luke Perry?
Date: 12 Nov 92 23:25:25 GMT
Organization: University of North Carolina
Originator: czmt@gibbs.oit.unc.edu

Thought this might interest some of you guys:

In the latest edition of YM (my roomate gets it, not me...I wouldn't have
even read the disgusting thing if she hadn't pointed it out to me):

The interviewer asks:  If you were back in high school and Luke Perry sat
next to you in class, would you be able to concentrate?

She answers:  Depends on how cute the teacher was.

;-)


-- 
                     ____  
Season Taylor        \  / "thought i knew my mind/like the back of my hand/
czmt@gibbs.oit.unc.edu\/   the gold in the rainbow/nothing panned out as i
(yes, as in the 4)         planned"   --indigo girls