HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: knudsen@cbnewsd.cb.att.com (michael.j.knudsen)
Newsgroups: rec.games.pinball
Subject: Re: A Hardware Question
Date: 31 Aug 92 20:35:52 GMT
Distribution: na
Organization: AT&T

In article <1992Aug23.154138.13347@cbfsb.cb.att.com>, yyz@cbnewsf.cb.att.com (donald.w.coons) writes:
> Older machine did not have an automatic kick out for the ball to the plunger. 
> this other handle was used to bring the ball to the plunger. I have never
> played a game lik ethis being to young, but maybe one of the posters that 
> has one at home can give more details (Mike?).

Sure Don, I can't resist a direct request, right?
You're dead right about that lower plunger -- you push it in to lift
the ball, which enters the plunger alley from the outside (right)
rather than the inside (left) as with the modern automatic ball kicker.

I remember watching pinball addicts with a smooth single motion of putting
up a ball with their fingers and shooting it with the thumb.
(So much for skill shots :-)  I first learned pinball in the late '50s,
from a classmate whose favorite saying was "I put up a ball and
the %^&*$#@ tilted!".  The some auto lifts slam that ball up
it's a wonder the pin doesn't tilt.

Auto ball lifts came in in the mid 60s, and allowed such features
as 3 or 5 ball settings, and Extra Balls, and of course Add-A-Ball.
And the auto lift forces you to wait patiently while the Bonus adds up
after the previous ball.  Funny, I've gotten so used to auto that
when playing a woodrail (with manual lift) I'll stare blankly into space
after draining a ball, waiting for the next one to pop up...

Betcha noticed that multi-ball pins have two lifts -- one kicks
immediately from the center drain to the holding point just
to the left of the plunger, where the second punches them out to you.

You can play up to 5-ball multiball on an old manual put-up, but you
don't get any extra score :-)  In fact, you lose points by overloading
the response time of EM score motors.

I've never heard of a pin with 5 actual balls and an auto lift.
However, I have a WIlliams '64 WING DING
with the old manual ball lift plunger but only one physical ball!
It's an Add-a-Ball too.

And *real* antiques didn't need any lift -- the plunger was at bottom right,
shooting balls up a sloping alley, so used balls drained back down to it
for the next game.

-- 
"R-E-C-P-E-K-T -- that's what Quayle won't give to me!"
  Programmers Do It on paper.  So do puppies.
	knudsen@iexist.att.com
From: dianetti@acsu.buffalo.edu (Donald J. Dianetti)
Newsgroups: rec.games.pinball
Subject: TAF bug
Summary: this bug has ruined my life
Date: 29 Aug 92 23:21:01 GMT
Organization: UB

Ugh.

I was cruising on TAF today.  Had a super game going.  
Ball 1:    Collected extra ball for 7 Bear Kicks
           Collected extra ball from mansion room
Ball 1.1:  Toured the mansion - collected extra ball
           lost ball during Mamushka, though (1st room).  Oh well.
Ball 1.2:  Collected extra ball from 2nd mansion room
     By this time I was through 2 multiballs and near 50 Bear Kicks, and
had five rooms already towards my 2nd Tour.  Yeah!
Checked my score - 576 million, still on Ball 1, got 2 extra balls
waiting --
     Folks, this was the best game I'd ever started on TAF - I had visions
of reaching my goal of a 10-digit score for the first time out of about
a thousand tries over the last year or so.

Then it happened.  Total game reset.  No reason.  

The following is a transcript of what went through my head in the next
5 seconds:
First order of business:  Scream.  Loudly.
 [If I do say so myself, it was a fine, fine scream.  One of my best]
Reaction #2:  an intense desire to smash the machine into a pile of 
              broken glass and various components.  This passes momentarily.
Reaction #3:  an intenst desire to violently murder the game room 
              attendant.  This passes momentarily.  [Luckily for him, he
              was out of my arm's reach at this time.]
Reaction #4:  stare blankly at the lovely attraction mode graphics that 
              mock my pain and remind me that my game is lost forever.
Reaction #5:  put my head down on the machine and whimper.  Admit defeat.
              Feel helpless.  

Is there a support group for players who have been victimized by this bug?
I think I'd like to join.  I feel awful.  Thanks for listening.  Ugh.


-- 
Don Dianetti  --  SUNY at Buffalo  --  dianetti@acsu.buffalo.edu
----------------------------------------------------------------
"I will not buy this tobacconists, it is scratched." - Hungarian tourist
"They like you very much, but they are not the hell your whales." - STIV
From: jerryc@tekig7.PEN.TEK.COM (Jerry C Carathers)
Newsgroups: rec.games.pinball
Subject: Re: Houston
Date: 25 Aug 92 20:06:57 GMT
Organization: Tektronix, Inc., Beaverton,  OR.

In article <1992Aug25.182831.19587@twisto.eng.hou.compaq.com> smiley@akasha.eng.hou.compaq.com (Colin Smiley) writes:
>
>Here is the pinball list of places that I have compiled for the
>Houston, TX area.
>

Let's not forget Bayou Mama's Swamp Bar on Westheimer and Tanglewild.
Tanglewild is right between Pier 1 Imports and Walgreens. Downstairs
there's two dance floors and lots of women ;^). Unfortunately the music is
104-style, not 97.9 THE BOX which is my station (yes, I'm white :^). Geez,
I'm missing my second home. Hey Colin, check out the top seven at 7:27 for
me and let me know what's hot. Remember, Thursday night is BOX night at
Jamaica Jamaica, 2631 Richmond at Kirby :^) :^). I'm losing it...

Upstairs at BMSB they usually have at least four half-decent pins. Last time I 
was there, they had T2, TAF, Funhouse and Dr. Dude.

        Jerry (still wearing my BOX T-shirt in Portland, OR) Carathers
-- 
Internet: jerryc@tekig7.MAP.TEK.COM
___          __   __                __                        __  __
|_ ) | |\ | |__) |__| |   |      | (__     |\/| \ /    |   | |_  |_    
|    | | \| |__) |  | |__ |__    | ___)    |  |  |     |__ | |   |__
From: bbs-garfield@jwt.UUCP (David Eison)
Newsgroups: rec.games.pinball
Subject: Re: TAF- The Power
Date: 4 Sep 92 00:40:26 GMT
Reply-To: bbs-garfield@jwt.UUCP
Organization: The Matrix

sigma@picasso.ipl.rpi.edu (Kevin Martin) writes:

> Don't forget that on a level, fast game with strong flippers, you
> can/should be able to hit Bear Kicks from the right, possibly even on
> repeated shots.

Am I weird or something?  I've put my fair share of dollars into several 
different TAFs (All with LOW REPLAYS! YEAH!  60 Mil!), but I can usually 
ONLY hit the bear kick ramp from the right, over and over and over again. 
I guess I don't really try for it from the left, but still, I don't 
understand why everyone else needs to pass to the left to get a bear 
kick.. Oh well.  Guess I'm just weird.

---
David Eison - Garfield           bbs-garfield@jwt.uucp
I'm not writing a message.  These words are just here to take up space.
Newsgroups: rec.games.pinball
From: blowfish@carina.unm.edu (rON.)
Subject: Re: TAF- The Power
Date: Fri, 04 Sep 92 15:37:15 GMT
Organization: University of New Mexico, Albuquerque

In article <42wJqB1w164w@jwt.UUCP> bbs-garfield@jwt.UUCP writes:
>sigma@picasso.ipl.rpi.edu (Kevin Martin) writes:
>Am I weird or something?  I've put my fair share of dollars into several 
>different TAFs (All with LOW REPLAYS! YEAH!  60 Mil!), but I can usually 
>ONLY hit the bear kick ramp from the right, over and over and over again. 
>I guess I don't really try for it from the left, but still, I don't 
>understand why everyone else needs to pass to the left to get a bear 
>kick.. Oh well.  Guess I'm just weird.

Simply put, not all right flippers are created equal. I can hit the bear-kick
ramp probably only 10-15% of the time from the right flipper.
r.
From: graham@cs.utk.edu (Jeff Graham)
Newsgroups: rec.games.pinball
Subject: Re: Abusing pins
Date: 25 Aug 92 23:37:11 GMT
Organization: University of Tennessee, Knoxville - CS Department
NNTP-Posting-Host: duncan.cs.utk.edu

In article <17ctv1INNidp@darkstar.UCSC.EDU> intruder@cats.ucsc.edu (Isaac Truder) writes:
>
>Now, explain to me just how the player is supposed to cause these problems
>by "overly abusing the machine"?  Seems like having a little steel ball
>smacking around the playing field of a machine all day would account for
>more of the problems you claim than shaking the machine or using four
>fingers on the buttons would.

  Maybe its just me (but I doubt it), but after this guy plays (usually for
2 to 3 hours), the machine doesn't feel like it's playing as good as it should.
I realize that playing that long is going to add some dirt, etc. to the play
field, but nobody I've talked to has been able to have a decent game after this
guy plays.  Plus the fact that his excessive shaking (up to a foot side-to-
side) has knocked a lane seperating gate loose (what are those called anyhow).
It's not easy to explain.  I guess you'ld just have to play before and after
this guy to understand what I mean.  Like I said, maybe it's just me (pinball
envy?), but it seems like my (and other players) worst games happen after he
plays.

-- 
Jeff Graham                  |  What's the biggest problem in America -
graham@cs.utk.edu            |    apathy or stupidity?
All opinions expressed are   |  
mine. Nobody else wants 'em. |  Don't know, don't care.
Newsgroups: rec.games.pinball
From: hal@venus.mitre.org (Hal Feinstein)
Subject: Re: A Hardware Question
Organization: Mitre Corporation, McLean, VA
Date: Sun, 23 Aug 1992 15:34:41 GMT

In article <1992Aug22.223725.4578@rat.csc.calpoly.edu> dan@rat.csc.calpoly.edu (Dan Delany) writes:
>I noticed that many old pins had what looks like a second plunger handle, 
>located just below the main plunger.  Can anybody shed some light on what
>this was?  dan@rat.csc.calpoly.edu  -Dan Delany

hoho! someone else has had that experience. I should have known better
but, when I first when shooping for a pinball game I when to this 
pricey shop catering to the rich. The salesguy 
didn't say much but, I made like I was super experienced with pinball,
you know, could tell the condition by listening to the thing beep.
So I came to an older game with what looked like two plungers where one
should be. "What the?!" I said to myself as I saw that salesguy just
begin to crack a knowing smile.  Then he went into the back giving me time 
to recover my "expertise."  I could have kicked myself. It's been 
such a long time since I saw one. The older games didn't have 
an soleniod that fires the ball from the drain into position just 
in front of the plunger. That's the purpose of the second lever.  It
moves the ball from a lower ramp up to shooting position just in front of 
the plunger.         

                       -H.



Newsgroups: rec.games.pinball
From: omitchel@jarthur.claremont.edu (Ocie *crow* Mitchell)
Subject: Re: Dr. Who (First Look) (SPOILERS)
Organization: Harvey Mudd College, Claremont, CA 91711
Date: Wed, 26 Aug 1992 06:05:54 GMT

Hey, does anyone know if there is a dr. who pin in the area of Ontario 
California?  
Ocie

----------------------------------------------+-------------------------------
``What do you think sirs?''  -Joel (mst3k)    | do not write above this line
----------------------------------------------+------------------------------- 
   __             _ _ _                       | Ocie Mitchell
  / ')           ' ) ) )  _/_    /      /) /) | omitchel@jarthur.claremont.edu
 /  / _. o _      / / / o /  _. /_  _  // //  | Q:is that your real name? 
(__/ (__(_(<_    / ' (_(_(__(__/ /_(<_(/_(/_  | A:yes, it is my real name.
----------------------------------------------+-------------------------------
From: johny@cogs.sussex.ac.uk (Lord Yak Da Hairy)
Newsgroups: rec.games.pinball
Subject: Re: Lethal Cows
Date: 26 Aug 92 13:05:12 GMT
Organization: The Devastating Rear Shot, Inc.

In article <920822325@tiny.com> sjsobol@tiny.com (Steven J. Sobol) writes:
> From SoHo down to Bryden

That's Brighton, of course. Trust me. I'm sitting there right now :-)

And we _still_ don't have LW3, SMB, Black Rose etc...

-- John Yeates (Lord Yak Da Hairy) ---------------- johny@cogs.susx.ac.uk --
-- ...THIS definitely takes, eats and shits the cake. - allane@unsw.oz.au --
Newsgroups: rec.games.pinball
From: dpettit@javelin.sim.es.com (Daina Pettit)
Subject: Re: Solid-State Flippers (was: Re: Williams flippers)
Organization: Evans & Sutherland Computer Corporation
Date: Wed, 26 Aug 1992 19:46:42 GMT

In article <1992Aug26.152825.1685@rtsg.mot.com> iott@rtsg.mot.com (Joel K. Iott) writes:
>I believe "solid-state" flippers can still become weak over time since what
>wears out is the flipper coil(s).
I've been told that coils *never* wear out.  Instead they burn/short
themselves to oblivion.  Besides the EOS problem you mentioned flippers get
weak because the coil sleeve, which is usually nylon, wears out/gets dirty,
and the linkages get loose and start to bind.  Very rarely do coils have to
be replaced.  
-- 
  Daina Pettit  (801) 582-5847  dpettit@javelin.sim.es.com   
  Evans & Sutherland  600 Komas Drive, SLC, UT  84108
From: sbb@panix.com (Steve Baumgarten)
Newsgroups: rec.games.pinball
Subject: Re: Solid-State Flippers (was: Re: Williams flippers)
Date: 3 Sep 92 01:09:55 GMT
	<1992Aug26.152825.1685@rtsg.mot.com>
Organization: PANIX Public Access Unix, NYC

In article <1992Aug26.152825.1685@rtsg.mot.com> iott@rtsg.mot.com
(Joel K. Iott) writes:

   I believe "solid-state" flippers can still become weak over time
   since what wears out is the flipper coil(s).

   I've seen this myself on a Terminator 2 game - it become very dull
   to play as the shots were weak.  Then the repair guy replaced the
   flipper coils, and it's fun to play again.  I am assuming that T2
   has solid-state flippers, as it is a recent game.

T2 didn't have them -- I think TAF was the first.  Since then, every
Williams/Bally game has had the new style solid state flippers.

I presume Premier is going to do something similar; they seem a bit
behind the technology curve, but it looks like they've been trying
their darndest to keep up.

--
    Steve Baumgarten       |  "New York... when civilization falls apart,
    PANIX, New York, NY    |   remember, we were way ahead of you."
                           |  
    Email: sbb@panix.com   |                            - David Letterman
Newsgroups: rec.games.pinball
From: sigma@picasso.ipl.rpi.edu (Kevin Martin)
Subject: Re: Williams flippers
Date: Wed, 26 Aug 1992 18:15:52 GMT

In article <SBB.92Aug24222041@panix.com> sbb@panix.com (Steve Baumgarten)  
writes:
> I think they did them just right: good feel, good strong flips.  I
> certainly wouldn't want to go back to the flippers on DR. DUDE and
> PARTY ZONE which seemed constantly to need a tune-up in order to get
> the ball up those steep ramps.  In contrast, I've never had a problem
> getting the ball up the Bear Kicks ramp in TAF -- at least from the
> left flipper.

I've seen a TAF which, one evening, the lower left flipper didn't work at
all, and the next evening it could barely get the ball up to the Bookcase.
Hilarious.  Almost as bad as the T2 next to it, which also had a completely
non-working left flipper, and its right flipper would flip even when there
was no game in progress.  Almost as bad as the Black Knight 2000 next to
that, which had all flippers so weak they could barely move the ball about
six inches up the playfield.

Only three games this place had.  Sad, sad, sad.

-- 
Kevin Martin
sigma@ipl.rpi.edu
"We're gonna need another Timmy!"
Newsgroups: rec.games.pinball
From: blowfish@carina.unm.edu (rON.)
Subject: Re: playfield layout (secrets of)
Date: Thu, 27 Aug 92 16:12:53 GMT
Organization: University of New Mexico, Albuquerque


I don't think playfields are layed out with the intention of 'maximizing
or minimizing' play time- that would be a bit too difficult, I believe.
There are some 'standards'. Steve Richie, for example, said he 'puts
the kickbacks and flippers down first, and in the same place. I believe
players like to see that'.

There are, of course, always intentional items put on a playfield that lead
to natural drains- a weak Bear Kick on TAF will generally come back and shoot
straight down the middle, as will a missed electric chair shot. These I'm
sure are intentional devices. Others aren't as intentional- on HSII, for
example, when the ball drains down the right from the top playfield area-
Mr. Richie said 'that should never happen on a >level< machine'. (these
comments by him, btw, were made at the pinball expo in Phoenix last june-
it was, actually, quite fun to listen to him comment on play design of HSII
while it was being played).
Note, though, that the key word in all the above is 'level'. Unscruplious
Operators will always try to screw the player by mis-leveling the machine.
This can't be designed for- it would be too tough.

I'm sure there are other tricks of the trade- the space between the flippers,
the gap and materials used near side drains, etc. I'm sure just about everyone
here has experienced, say, playing on the Simpsons- watching the ball glide
gently into the left hand drain (over and over and over)- it was designed
to drain on the sides (the kickback probably wasn't designed to keep sending
the ball back to itself, that was no doubt a design flaw).

Overall, I'm sure that highly experienced designers, like Richie, probably 
have a good idea that Ramp A will lead to position B or missed shot C will
lead to position D- simply from experience, but I don't believe that designers
intentionally design for 'play time', but for enjoyment. What do I mean? Take
for example, the electric chair on TAF. It was probably placed first, in that
area, because it 'fit' there. Later, the little nasty bumpers were twigged
with to make a missed shot a sure drain, but placing the chair there was
not designed for that purpose.

These, of course, are mostly all my opinions, since I'm not a game
designer :)
r.
Xref: sparky rec.games.pinball:3992 news.answers:2689
From: roy@ecgcurly.UUCP (ecghub   Roy Kern)
Newsgroups: rec.games.pinball
Subject: Re: Terminator 2 pinball machine for sale
Summary: We have a winner...
Date: 2 Sep 92 21:57:42 GMT
Distribution: na
Organization: Motorola Cellular Cad Group

In article <Btx29D.70r@solbourne.com>, kucharsk@solbourne.com (William Kucharski) writes:
> I originally emailed this to Tom, but it bounced...
> 
> I thought that the most annoying part of Tom's post was that he said he was
> selling his T2 to make room for a "new acquisition" but never told us what he
> was getting!! :-)
> -- 

Aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaahhhh, the first worthwhile post in this entire discussion.
Gentlemen, we MUST get our priorities in order....

Roy.
roy@mot.com
From: halw@hpwrce.mayfield.hp.com (Hal Work)
Date: Wed, 2 Sep 1992 13:37:27 GMT
Subject: Re: Drop Target Stickers
Organization: the HP Mtn.View Resp. Cntr.
Newsgroups: rec.games.pinball

I would think the easiest way is doing it yourself.  Find someone to scan the
image of the best one you've got into a computer.  Duplicate the image lots
of times.  Print it out on a color printer.  Laminate one side with really 
thin plastic and stickyback the other side.  Voila!
 
 Good luck.  Here in Silicon Valley this is pretty trivial to get done.  Where
 you're located it might be more difficult.
From: andrem@pyrtech.mis.pyramid.com (Andre Molyneux)
Newsgroups: rec.games.pinball
Subject: Re: Terminator 2 pinball machine for sale
Date: 31 Aug 92 20:20:10 GMT
Originator: daemon@sword.eng.pyramid.com

Come on guys, this is getting ridiculous...

Yes, Tom's message wasn't the friendliest sounding posting ever.  Initially
I thought it sounded pretty hostile as well.  By the end of the message,
however, it became obvious that he's had to deal with some real bozos.
Imagine taking time out of your schedule to allow a stranger into your house
to look at something you had for sale, and after an hour or two of "test-
driving" finding out that they never had any intention of buying.

Can we stay away from threads like this and concentrate on pinball?  I don't
know about the rest of you, but the time I have available for reading
newsgroups is minimal.  One of the reasons I subscribe to r.g.p. is that it
tends to be full of good information and has minimal flaming.  So, what I'd
suggest is:

To Tom Yager:

	On future "For Sale" postings, maybe you should relate a short
	bozo-from-hell incident you've suffered through, then list the
	conditions that you regretfully have to enforce.  I think this
	would work better than explaining why at the end, since some people
	may not read the entire posting.

To everyone else:

	Come on, lighten up!  If you don't like the conditions someone
	places on a sale, don't buy from them.  If you've bought or sold
	machines before and have found a better way to avoid the problems
	Tom encountered, please post them.  He'd probably appreciate the
	input.

I don't know any of the parties involved, and I'm not trying to take anyone's
side.  I'd just like to keep this group as flame-free as it has normally been.

+--------------------------------------------------------------------------+
| Andre Molyneux   KA7WVV     "Insert your favorite disclaimer here"       |
+-----------------------------------------+--------------------------------+
|      -=-------- PYRAMID TECHNOLOGY CORP |Internet:                       |
|    ---===------ 3860 N. First Street    |  andrem@pyramid.com            |
|  -----=====---- San Jose, CA            |Packet:                         |
|-------=======-- (408) 428-8229          |  ka7wvv@n0ary.#nocal.ca.usa.na |
+-----------------------------------------+--------------------------------+
From: grover@vulcan1.edsg.hac.com (Dean Grover)
Newsgroups: rec.games.pinball
Subject: Re: Captain Fantastic: Classic or junk?
Date: 2 Sep 92 19:47:37 GMT
Reply-To: grover@vulcan1.edsg.hac.com
Organization: Hughes Aircraft Co., El Segundo, CA

In article 14639@vax5.cit.cornell.edu, q96j@vax5.cit.cornell.edu () writes:
> Bear with me, I'm new to all this.  
[ some text deleted]
> 
> Question is, is it worth something, or is it junk.  To get it, I'll have
> to travel about four hours and haul it in the back of my friend's Bronco.
> I'm assuming the legs are detachable and we can turn it on its side.
> 

I'd say it is worth "something", and is probably on it's way to becoming a classic.
Out here in So CA, I've seen Captain Fantastics 
for sale for up to $1500 (private parties).  Of course, I didn't find out how much 
they actually sold it for :-).  I have mine, and am keeping it mainly for the
artwork.  Ever look closely at the backglass ?  You'll see all kinds of things!!
It hasn't been played since TAF came to town, but it is pinball.

Dean
---
//////////////////////////////////////\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\
Dean Grover                            Mappy - The ultimate game of cat
Hughes Aircraft Company                        and mouse
adgrover@hac2arpa.hac.com or grover@vulcan1.edsg.hac.com