HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
Newsgroups: rec.boats

Can anybody explain to me the theory of a gybing centreboard and what
are it's advantages and disadvantages over a non-gybing centreboard?

As I understand it the gybing centreboard twists slightly in the
centreboard housing such that when going upwind it is angled to windward
and therfore provides more lift to windward, and hence improves pointing
ability. Great, but if this is true why aren't gybing centreboards used
on all boats in those dinghy classes which allow them? having sailed a
boat witha gybing c/b and one without the noticeable disadvantage was
for the board to be loose in the case and subject to a tendency to come
up. This can be managed with an appropriate uphaul/downhaul system, but
in light winds there was still a tendency for the board to slop around a
bit. Is this the reason why non gybing c/bs are preferred by some
people?

Chris
                              Sail faster, sail 505 
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
Chris Romans.  HP Labs, Filton Road, Stoke Gifford, Bristol BS12 6QZ, UK.
cgr@hplb.hpl.hp.com   Tel: +44 272 228710 or 799910   Fax: +44 272 228920 
-------------------------------------------------------------------------

Newsgroups: rec.boats
From: jsh@icslab.NoSubdomain.NoDomain (John Hirth)
Subject: Re: Mercruiser questions
Organization: NYNEX Science & Technology, Inc.
Date: Tue, 15 Dec 92 13:15:08 GMT

>On 11 Dec 92, torsten@unisql.UUCP wrote:
>
> My boat has a strange tendency to "fishtail" while bumbling along at
> 1200 RPM.  It runs straight as an arrow at speed.
>
My '92 Century 21' (deep V) does the same thing.  Stable as a rock when on a
plane, but yaws like a drunk when off plane.  I thought I might have gotten a
warped hull at first, but have heard from others that this is quite common.
Before you get used to it and learn to minimize the effect by anticipating 
the movement and making SMALL directional corrections, it can make idling
through very narrow places a full time job.  But you DO get used to it
eventually.  I'm now able to keep to a straight course at low speed, and
no longer draw suspicious glances from surrounding boaters.

John Hirth
-- 
  John S. Hirth  WB2HMF           NYNEX Science & Technology, Inc.    
  FAX:   (914) 644-2706           White Plains, NY  10604
  INTERNET: jsh@nynexst.com       UUCP: !uunet!nynexst.com!jsh
From: Gunther.Yip@f764.n153.z1.ship.wimsey.bc.ca (Gunther Yip)
Sender: UUCP@ship.wimsey.bc.ca
Newsgroups: rec.boats
Subject: Sunfish, Sailfish, Lasers
Date: Thu, 10 Dec 1992 17:50:00 -0800

JFH>Of course, if you want to trap out alone, the boat to do it in is
JFH>the Contender. (Or perhaps, if you're feeling a little loony, a
JFH>Tornado---this
JFH>is how I usually sail mine). I was once offered a chance to sail a
JFH>Contender,

What's a Contender?  And how a bout some specifics. i.e. length,
rigging, sail area....

Gun


 * OLX 2.1 TD * --T-A+G-L-I+N-E--+M-E-A+S-U-R+I-N-G+--G-A+U-G-E--
From: torsten@unisql.UUCP (Torsten Weirich)
Newsgroups: rec.boats
Subject: Re: Coast Guard user fee repealed!
Date: 15 Dec 92 17:26:09 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: UniSQL, Inc., Austin, Texas, USA

In article <72433611213187@oxygen.aps1.anl.gov> gbanks@oxygen.aps1.anl.gov (Gregory Banks) writes:

   Good news! The ripp-off fee that the government imposed on boaters
   that used water accessed by the coast guard is no more as of 1993!
   Boats 20' and under will no longer be required to pay the $25.00 fee
   and for boats over 20', it will be fazed out in the next 2 years. It
   was shot down in congress (its about time boaters stopped getting
   screwed). 

Now if we could only get them to pull their heads out of their ***es long
enough to repeal the 10% luxury tax on high ticket items....

Torsten Weirich

+---------------------------------------------------------------+
| UniSQL                      Cursed by a fortune cookie:       |
| 9380 Research Blvd.         "Your principles mean more to you |
| Kaleido II, Ste. 200         than any money or success."      |
| Austin, TX 78759               ^                              |
| Tel: (512) 343-7297            |                              |
| Fax: (512) 343-7383            +-the story of my life... ;-(  |
| Email: unisql!weirich@cs.utexas.edu                           |
| Disclaimer:  something about "plausible deniability"...       |
+---------------------------------------------------------------+

Newsgroups: rec.boats
From: Robert.Walker@launchpad.unc.edu (robert holton walker)
Subject: CORONADO 27
Organization: University of North Carolina Extended Bulletin Board Service
Distribution: na
Date: Tue, 15 Dec 1992 07:01:34 GMT

Robert.Walker@lambada.oit.unc.edu


--
   The opinions expressed are not necessarily those of the University of
     North Carolina at Chapel Hill, the Campus Office for Information
        Technology, or the Experimental Bulletin Board Service.
           internet:  laUNChpad.unc.edu or 152.2.22.80
Newsgroups: rec.boats
From: fortner@hal.eel.ufl.edu (Dave Fortner)
Subject: TIP: Soldering Wire
Originator: fortner@hal.eng.ufl.edu
Organization: University of Florida
Distribution: usa
Date: Thu, 17 Dec 92 18:20:40 GMT

Here is a little thing that I learned a few years ago.

When I work on repair/replacement of exisiting wiring on
my boat I find that the stranded copper wire is corroded
for a long distance up into the insulation. The corroded
wire will not take solder. TIP: Get a gallon of Muratic (sp?)
Acid (used for lower ph in a swimming pool), get three (3)
PLASTIC cups and some baking soda. In cup 1, pour about an inch
of Muratic Acid. In cup 2, put a well rounded teaspoon of
baking soda and add about an inch of water, mix well. In
cup 3, fill with water. Cut wire and strip insulation, dip
bare end into cup 1, and gently move wire around, you'll
see a small cloud of yellow "stuff" come off of the wire.
Next, nutrilize the acid by immersing the end of the wire
in cup 2. Lastly, rinse end of wire in cup 3 and dry with
a clean cloth. The wire will now "take" solder as good
or better than new wire.

TIP 2: When replacing wire on a boat (primarily salt water
use) use "pre-tinned" wire. The type that I use has each
strand of the twisted wire tinned before it is twisted and
the insulation is put on. On my last boat, I replaced the
cigarette lighter just before I sold it and the wire to 
the lighter (which I put in 4 years earlier) still looked
like new.

WARNING: Be very careful with the acid, follow all
instructions on container label. (God, I hate disclaimers)

Dave Fortner
Fortner-D@3mail.ksc.nasa.gov

Disclaimer: I AIN'T RESPONSIBLE FOR NOTHIN'
From: dsmith@hplabsz.hpl.hp.com (David R. Smith)
Newsgroups: rec.boats
Subject: Re: Mercruiser questions
Date: 18 Dec 92 17:10:17 GMT
Organization: Hewlett-Packard Laboratories Palo Alto,CA

In article <1896@niktow.canisius.edu> pavlov@niktow.canisius.edu (Greg Pavlov) writes:
>> >> My boat has a strange tendency to "fishtail" while bumbling along at
>> >> 1200 RPM.  It runs straight as an arrow at speed.
>> >>
>> >My '92 Century 21' (deep V) does the same thing.  Stable as a rock when on a
>> >plane, but yaws like a drunk when off plane.
>> 
>   This results from a combination of the thrust forces of a single propeller
>   (thrust sideways as well as backward) and a hull that is designed to plane.
>   Though not all boats that fit this category will exhibit this behavior.  

I don't believe it.  The "sideways force" of a propeller (single or not) is
really a lateral displacement of the thrust line when the propeller's axis
is not parallel to the boat's motion.  This can be eliminated by trimming
the outdrive, but the snaking persists.  By your hypothesis, inboards
should snake the most.

By the descriptions of the affected boats so far, it appears that they are
heavy-sterned I/O's with deep forefeet, producing a lot of lateral area
ahead of the CG.  Outboards are lighter in the stern, placing the CG farther
forward.  Mid-engined inboard ski boats have the CG farther forward, as well
as less lateral area forward.

-- 
David R. Smith, HP Labs |   "I like to get my hands dirty,
dsmith@hpl.hp.com       |   because it stimulates my mind."
(415) 857-7898          |        -- Irwin Sobel
Newsgroups: rec.boats
From: EPLUS17@vmd.cso.uiuc.edu (Richard Engelbrecht-Wiggans)
Subject: Re: Rooftop boat loaders
Organization: C.C.S.O.
Date: Tue, 15 Dec 1992 15:30:19 GMT

In article <18521@mindlink.bc.ca>
Brian_Purdy@mindlink.bc.ca (Brian Purdy) writes:
 
>Now that I have acquired a camper van with an elevated roof, I am having
>difficulty figuring out how to transport my two kayaks. I prefer not to use a
>boat trailer, since that would make for a very long and unwieldy vehicle.
>
>What I am hoping to find is some sort of commercial gadget which will clamp
>the kayaks to the roof, which is about 8.5' above the ground, and elevated
>about 18" above the rain gutters.
>
>It would have to be something which would lever the kayaks up there, since
>they weigh about 70 lbs. each. I have concerns too about putting that much
>weight that high up, but I'll give it a try, if I can find the right device.
 
8.5' is a heck of a long way up...I would think twice about the problems
associated with getting 150 pounds up there and about the effect that it
might have on vehicle handing.
 
When I acquired my first sailboat last summer, I too thought that I
would prefer roof topping over trailering.  I rooftop a lot of
windsurfing equipment, and designed a system (basically a 14 piece
of ladder that could slide to the rear until one end could be lowered
to the ground and then use to slide the boat down) to rooftop my 165
pound boat.  But the seller of the boat insisted on selling a trailer
with the boat.  I car topped the boat once...what a pain.  I trailer
it now.  I too was concerned about handling; I forget about it now.
Indeed, I carry my sailboards on top of the boat on the trailer now
rather than cartopping them; my minivan gets better gas mileage this
way, and I have the boat along just in case the wind drops too low
for windsurfing.
 
..Richard
From: moinard@irisa.fr (Yves Moinard, tel 7313, bureau 214AB)
Newsgroups: rec.boats
Subject: Vendee Globe Challenge, 10 dec 92
Date: 11 Dec 92 18:28:41 GMT
Reply-To: moinard@irisa.fr
Organization: IRISA, Rennes, France


The two leaders arrive close to the equator and have good winds
while it is not the case of their immediate followings.
(News from the day 10 december).

1) Alain Gautier  (Bagages Superior)     	20 715 nm from arrival
2) Bertrand de Broc (Groupe LG)         	at 21 nm
3) Nandor Fa (???)   				at 263 nm
					(206 one day before)
4) Bernard Gallay (Vuarnet Watches)      	at 330 nm
5) Jose Luis de Ungarte (Euskadi Europa 93) 	at 337 nm
6) Alan Wynne-Thomas (Cardiff Discovery)  	at 436 nm
7) Jean-Luc Van Den Heede (Gr. Sofap Helvim) 	at 636? nm
8) Philippe Poupon (Fleury-Michon 		at 782 nm
9) Jean-Yves Hasselin (Solo Nantes) 		at 941 nm
10) Vittorio Malingri (Everlas- Neil Pryde) 	at 1036 nm
11) Yves Parlier (Cacolac d'Aquitaine) 		at 1707 nm

Bertand de Broc was very good during the bad weather of the begining,
now the potentially superior boat of A. Gautier goes faster.
Numbers 7 to 11 (except possibly 9, I do not remember exactly, 
he does not have an up to date boat) returned to Les Sables d'Olonne
and started again.
Loic Peyron (Fujicolor III) got his hull delaminated on a few meters, 
came back to LS and resigned. He was one of the favorites.
Nigel Burgess (Yacht Brokers) has been found too late (see previous postings).
He was his own sponsor, being a reputedly very rich yacht broker in Monaco
(he was from England). So it seems that he had not to run after sponsors
before the race, but may be it was not so easy for him either.
There is still no further information in the french newspapers about his death.
I do not have here the name of the other resigner who was sort of an ``amateur''.
He came back, wanted to resign, was encouraged to start again, 
and finally came back again, for good.
We had a very bad weather in western Europe during these days
(it is not really over, even if for now we have no longer strong winds,
I could not see the lunar eclipse).
However, these boats are supposed to stand rough weather...

                                          Yves
From: bsmith@hplvec.LVLD.HP.COM (Brian Smith)
Date: Mon, 14 Dec 1992 20:37:12 GMT
Subject: Re: Confused (was: Zincs on boats)
Organization: Hewlett-Packard Co., Loveland, CO
Newsgroups: rec.boats

In rec.boats, mmp@mmp.UUCP (Lou McIntosh) writes:

            I entirely agree with all of the above.  As to the lightning ground 
     from the mast, my experience has been that the best protection is conferred
     by large external chainplates that reach to the waterline ... whereas if you
     force several hundred thousand amps through a bonding conductor, the odds of
     having it find its own fortuitous path out through the hull are high enough
     to be plenty scary.

You used the phrase "my experience has been.."  Is this just a choice
of wording or do you actually have experience of being struck by
lightning or dealing with people who have?  If you do have such
experience, I for one would be glad to read more about it.  It is
incredibly difficult to find anything really definitive about lightning
and boats.  Usually, it is either anecdotal (well, I heard..) or not
too helpful advice (go somewhere else...) or pure speculation (it'll
burn yer ass off....)

By the way, I am not "challenging" your choice of words--just hoping.
Brian  
From: bsmith@hplvec.LVLD.HP.COM (Brian Smith)
Date: Thu, 10 Dec 1992 19:29:01 GMT
Subject: Re: A sailing problem
Organization: Hewlett-Packard Co., Loveland, CO
Newsgroups: rec.boats

In rec.boats, wwalker@qualcomm.com (Bill Walker) writes:


    We've only taken my daughter sailing in dinghies on Mission Bay (which is
........

Took a friend and my then-3 year old son out in the Fireball once on a
fairly calm day.  Got hit by a lulu of a squall.  Capsized--not the
best of helmsmen and a totally inexperienced crew--we were all wearing
life jackets.  Friend held up my son (Peter) while I righted the
boat--the squall had long gone, as squalls are wont to do in this part
of the world.  When we got ashore, Peter ran to his mother and
exclaimed in a very loud voice, "Dumb Dad let the boat fall over!"

B. (out of the mouths....) S!
Newsgroups: rec.boats
From: EPLUS17@vmd.cso.uiuc.edu (Richard Engelbrecht-Wiggans)
Subject: Re: Kill-switch required?
Organization: C.C.S.O.
Date: Fri, 11 Dec 1992 17:37:17 GMT

In article <1g8pakINNa4g@male.EBay.Sun.COM>
jeffh@nonsuch.EBay.Sun.COM (Jeff Huntington) writes:
 
>In article 28784@ncrcae.ColumbiaSC.NCR.COM, scott@prodplan.Columbia.NCR.COM (Scott Bridges) writes:
>> In article <1992Dec10.092655.21468@ncrcae.ColumbiaSC.NCR.COM> kevin@turbo.Columbia.NCR.COM (Kevin Ormerod) writes:
> By the way, how do you put one of
>> those things on a sailboat? :)
>>
>
>Easy, it's called weather helm.  Let go of the tiller or wheel and the boat stops. :-)
Yes.  And if there is anything solid (like a dock, or retaining wall)
just up wind of you, you will stop all that much quicker :-)
 
..Richard E+17
>
Newsgroups: rec.boats
From: tarkkone@klaava.Helsinki.FI (Lauri Tarkkonen)
Subject: Re: Gybing Centreboards
Organization: University of Helsinki
Date: Fri, 18 Dec 1992 20:05:27 GMT

In <thompson.724693712@kiyotaki.econ.umn.edu> thompson@atlas.socsci.umn.edu (T. Scott Thompson) writes:

>wex@castle.ed.ac.uk (John Wexler) writes:

>>Since heeling is not a GOOD THING for performance, I imagine that the
>>good effect of a gybing centreboard in reducing leeway is to some extent
>>offset by the increased heeling.

>I believe that you won't find true gybing centerboards on anything
>except lightweight, high-performance, planing dinghies.  As anyone who
>has ever sailed one of these boats competitively knows, _any_ heeling
>(whether you have a gybing ceterboard or not) is the best way to make
>the boat go real slow.  "Sail it flat" is the best advice for any
>beginning dinghy racer (light winds excluded).

I second that, but like to pinpoint the fact that in any proper 
high performance dinghy there are so much else to worry that the
gybing centerboard is hardly worth the trouble. 

One could in most cases tell the finishing order on a club race just 
10 minutes after the start, by looking at the heeling of the boats,
the more they heel, the further behind they will be. :-). On higher
level it is not so easy, because there will be several top sailors
keeping it flat.

- Lauri Tarkkonen

PS: I do not count a scow (say E-scow a dinghy). 

Newsgroups: rec.boats
From: mroberts@ptdcs2.intel.com (Mark Roberts ~)
Subject: Re: Coast Guard Boating Tax, NOT!
Organization: Intel Corporation -- Aloha, Oregon
Date: Wed, 16 Dec 1992 21:14:47 GMT

In article <1gnputINNlae@charnel.ecst.csuchico.edu> cworth@OAVAX.CSUCHICO.EDU writes:
>In article <7975@tekig7.PEN.TEK.COM>, alany@tekig5.pen.tek.com (Alan Yelvington) writes:
>>PLEASE!  No matter what you think, the
>>Coast Guard is our friend.
>
>HORSEPUCKY!  As long as the Coasties are conducting armed, warrantless
>boardings and searches of US ships in US waters (under the pretext of
>drug interdiction) they're no friends of mine.
>
>
>**********************************************************
> Chuck Worth            California State University, Chico
> CWORTH@OAVAX.CSUCHICO.EDU

*** FLAME ON ***

The Solution (tm) is to stay squeekey clean!!  Keep your boat a drug
free environment and you'll not only not run afoul of the Coast Guard,
but you'll be less of a hazard on the water to both me and yourself.

If the Coasties are no friends of yours ... don't expect them to be
your buddies when you get in trouble.  I'll put up with the occasional
'warrantless boardings and searches' in thier nasty little drug war
because I'll tell you what ... I'm real glad that they *are* there when
we have need of them.  

*** FLAME OFF ***

Thank whatever you believe in that the Coast Guard is there to help.
Without them many skippers and thier crew would be lost.

				Fish to Live, Live to Fish
				   'Fish Assassin' Mark
				     Pacific City, OR



*******************************************************************
My opinions may not be the same as those of the company I work for.
*******************************************************************
Organization: University of Illinois at Chicago
Date: Sunday, 20 Dec 1992 00:21:12 CST
From: MATT HUNSAKER <U61474@uicvm.uic.edu>
Newsgroups: rec.boats
Subject: Any Submarines out there?

I read rec.boats from time to time, with a sort of passing interest.  I just
wondered if there were any other submarine owners out there.  If there are,
drop me a note.

A little note for those of you that have been boarded, the coasties won't
bother you if you just submerge!

About a year and  a half ago, we were playing in the water down off Key West
with the sub( 12 ft long). We were right in the middle of a dive when our
surface tender (speed boat with other IL boys on it) announced that the Coast
Guard was boarding them.  Never tell the Coast Guard you are waiting for your
submarine to come back, and never let your friends ride in the tender when they
say whatever question comes to mind...

--our experience,  never, never, ask the coasties,  "What,  are you guys like
security guards for the NAVY?" ... or "Do those dirigible things by our hotel
in Key West have Helium or Hydrogen in them...OH, you guys probably don't know,
 that's the drug dudes right?"."What do you guys make/hour?"..."Do you guys
SCUBA or just like board boats all day?"..."Bummer job!!"..."Do you ever get to
shoot people?"...  and the final unappreciated comment buy Roger "I could be a
Coast Guard guy"-Chalmers,   "You guys want a Pepsi before you go...or do you
have a pop machine on your boat?"  Yes,"Do you guys have a pop machine on your
BOAT?".......          ---Roger Chalmers, Spring Break 1991--Key West, FL
                             ...Yes, he does have a valid drivers license!

-Matt

.

MATT HUNSAKER   ~~~~~~~~~___100       ..            __  |__
DIVING RESEARCH GROUP        ___200  >->O      . .__L L_|L L__
HOME OF THE SPORTSMAN 300 MINISUB___300FT   . .[+(____________)
E-MAIL:U61474@UICVM   (815)399-1615                _________/
STUDENT, U OF IL COLLEGE OF MEDICINE
Newsgroups: rec.boats
From: drums@cbnewsl.cb.att.com (robert.e.wisnack.jr)
Subject: Storm
Organization: AT&T Bell Laboratories
Distribution: nj
Date: Thu, 17 Dec 1992 14:51:42 GMT
Keywords: Damage



Anybody out there have serious problems with the storm 
that just past?  I've heard some real hairy stories 
about boats laying on the sides of the road on the 
Parkway.  At my boat club in South River we had some
boats move around a little, but no major damage.
I always leave my drain plug out in the winter,
some people at the club left their's in.  Those 
who had the drain plug out got water in our engines,
the others floated to new parts of the parking lot.
I had about 5 gallons of water in my oil.  On Sunday
I changed the oil then started the boat until I didn't
see any water.  Of course I drained the oil and water 
first.  After I was convinced there wasn't any more 
water in the oil, I put slick 50 and mobil 1 in for
next season.  

I also called my insurance company (Boat/US) and they
said they would send someone out, just to check the boat.
And, if I have any problems next season they would 
replace the parts.

Hope everyone is alright.
From: jcs@zoo.bt.co.uk (John C Sager)
Newsgroups: rec.boats
Subject: Re: Loran vs SatNav (Was Bermuda...)
Date: 14 Dec 92 11:28:36 GMT
Organization: British Telecommunications plc

In article <1992Dec11.094834.25113@lut.ac.uk>, O.B.Schou@lut.ac.uk writes:


> 
> Forgive me if I am wrong, but is not GPS a military system, where some
> of the "details" are still secret (encoded), and the miltay reserve the
> right AT ANY TIME to degrade or even remove the info for non military
> use?  If so, would it not be safer to have a backup method, even if
> just DR and EP (plus occasional sextant use)?


GPS is not yet fully deployed and there have been cases where the service has
been unavailable or available on a restricted basis for a short period (some
hours). It is apparently the intent of the Department of Defense to make
it available all the time to civilian users once it is fully deployed.
I don't yet know if a date has been fixed for that.

On the original point, Loran vs GPS, my impression is that GPS scores on
worldwide availability and accuracy of absolute fix. Loran scores on cost
(at the moment. GPS should be down to Loran costs soon), and on fix
repeatability. By this I mean that, if you navigate to a point & note its
co-ords, or set a waypoint there, you can more accurately return to that
point in future using Loran than you can using GPS. This is purely because
of the Selective Availability (SA) errors intoduced onto GPS fixes by the DoD.
If SA were turned off or negated by using differential GPS, then GPS would
be better than Loran at this as well. GPS also allows height fixes
(not much use on a boat but great for aircraft & land navigation).

John C Sager					Mail:	B67 G18, BT Labs
Email:	jcs@zoo.bt.co.uk				Martlesham Heath
Tel:	+44 473 642623					IPSWICH  IP5 7RE
Fax:	+44 473 637614					England