HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: apm212a@vaxc.cc.monash.edu.au
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: Baby with no father.
Date: 7 Jan 93 08:23:58 +1100
Organization: Computer Centre, Monash University, Australia


        Well maybe, maybe not,

                The last word I've heard was that similar effect attempting
        to produce a VIABLE fetus from parental material of the same gender
        was proving to be a monumental failure.  It seems that the genetic
        material is labeled in some way, possible involving the histones the
        DNA is spooled around, that identifies the parental gender.

                The experiments involved both male-male and female-female
        combinations and where carried out using material from mice, not
        humans.  None of the eggs survived beyond, about, six days.

                In any case the work was not performed in Australia.

+-------------------+--------------------------------+-------------------------+
| Stuart Robinson   | In any hierachical bureaucracy | My opinions are my own. |
| Mathematics Dept. | the bitchiness expands to fill |                         |
| Monash Uni.       | the egos available.            | They are not those of   |
| Clayton 3168,     |                                | Monash University.      |
| Victoria,         +--------------------------------+-------------------------+
| Australia         | apm212a@vaxc.cc.monash.edu.au  |Ph : +61 3 565 4501 (BH) |
+-------------------+--------------------------------+-------------------------+
From: jarvis@psych.toronto.edu (Brian Jarvis)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: Year of the Queer
Date: 11 Jan 93 17:35:53 GMT
Organization: Department of Psychology, University of Toronto

In article <C0MB65.Ln1@queernet.org> rogerk@queernet.org (Roger B.A. Klorese) writes:
>In article <1993Jan5.225714.22900@gordian.com> mike@gordian.com (Michael A. Thomas) writes:
>>What a maroon. The only reason that LA moved theirs is
>>so that SF might reciprocate. Talk about giving an inch
>>and taking a mile. Somebody needs to educate this moron
>>that the gay world does *not* revolve around SF, much
>>as he might think it ought to.

>It is the observation of queerdom's most sacred holiday, the anniversary
>of the Stonewall riots.
>
>EVERY CITY IN THE WORLD should observe it on the last Sunday of June.

I don't see any smilies, but I hope to Gawd you mean this sarcastically.

Brian
-- 

Brian A. Jarvis,          Rm. 4026, Sidney Smith Hall, Dept. of Psychology,
jarvis@psych.toronto.edu  University of Toronto, Toronto, Ontario, Canada
System Administrator      M5S 1A1  (416) 978-3948
From: kmeyer@aero.org (Kraig R. Meyer)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: Year of the Queer
Date: 11 Jan 93 14:16:57
Organization: The Aerospace Corporation, El Segundo, CA
	<1993Jan11.173553.20574@psych.toronto.edu>
	<1993Jan11.181426.16611@tc.cornell.edu>
NNTP-Posting-Host: solarium.aero.org
In-reply-to: shore@dinah.tc.cornell.edu's message of Mon, 11 Jan 1993 18:14:26 GMT


rogerk@queernet.org (Roger B.A. Klorese) writes:
>>>EVERY CITY IN THE WORLD should observe it on the last Sunday of June.

shore@dinah.tc.cornell.edu (Melinda Shore) said:
> I don't know whether or not Roger is kidding, but even if
> he is I agree with his statement.  We're commemorating a
> specific event, or so I thought.  It seems that the holiday
> is losing its meaning and it's not even 25 years old.

Well, Gay pride celebrations mean different things to different people.

Personally, I don't believe that commemorating Stonewall is the most
important function of a Gay Pride Celebrations.  From what I've seen,
most people in my (younger) age group tend to agree with this--if they
even know what Stonewall is, which many don't.

I also don't understand the argument that "it's OK to move the
anniversary celebration 3 or 4 days to a weekend but it's not OK to
move it a couple weeks."

---------------------------------------------------------------------------
| The opinions expressed above are my own and do not necessarily          |
| represent those of The Aerospace Corporation, El Segundo, CA.           |
|									  |
| Kraig R. Meyer		   	                 kmeyer@aero.org  |
---------------------------------------------------------------------------


Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: steven@cray.com (Steven Levine)
Subject: No Longer about Dworkin (was Re: Dworkin (was Re: Liberty))
Organization: Cray Research, Inc.
Date: 6 Jan 93 09:47:36 CST

In article <1993Jan6.101842.4133@spdcc.com>
 joe@spdcc.com (Joseph Francis) writes:
>
>Not to mention the Raquel Welch dildo rape scene in the terribly
>underrated Gore Vidal screen disaster whose name eludes me.

Was that "Myra Breckenridge"?

-Steven Levine

Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: thaaang@cwis.unomaha.edu (John Dorrance)
Subject: Re: Nominations for best men's colognes
Organization: University of Nebraska at Omaha
Date: Wed, 6 Jan 1993 21:20:54 GMT

Y'all should smell Sim sometime. Woo!

(One nice thing about cologne is if someone wears it heavily, you
know they're either a fag or the most obnoxious kind of strayt
boy - one that *really* *wants* *chicks* *bad*, and knows a very
few rules of fashion and personal grooming (but not very well, of
course). In Omaha, this means they run around in sweaters and big
boufed hair and lots of expensive stink, using typical piglike
straytboy mating rituals (in short, being loud and lewd and dumb).
It's really kind of a mindfuck.

--
thaaang@cwis.unomaha.edu * John Dorrance * Disco Diva y Flamenco Chico
      You would be surprised at what resides in your insides.
	  S7/9 g++l+(+)y++z++/--(++!!!)o+(+)x+a++uv(++)j+
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: anderson@macc.wisc.edu (Jess Anderson)
Subject: Re: Nominations for best Men's cologne
Organization: Madison Academic Computing Center, UW-Madison
Date: Wed, 6 Jan 93 16:44:20 GMT

In article <1993Jan6.162207.13155@osf.org>
coren@speed.osf.org (Robert Coren) writes:

>On the other hand, anyone willing to pay $250/oz really doesn't care
>what it costs, or how it got that way, do they?

Frankly, at $4.80/lb, I consider Total Corn Flakes to
be the greater ripoff.  Even at $250/(fluid) oz, the daily
expenditure for scent would be an insignificant fraction of
the cost of any such basic food.

-- 
[Jess Anderson <> Madison Academic Computing Center <> University of Wisconsin]
[Internet: anderson@macc.wisc.edu <-best, UUCP:{}!uwvax!macc.wisc.edu!anderson]
[Room 3130 <> 1210 West Dayton Street / Madison WI 53706 <> Phone 608/262-5888]
[---------> Discrimination, Bigotry, and Hate are not Family Values <---------]
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: thaaang@cwis.unomaha.edu (John Dorrance)
Subject: Re: Glendale
Organization: University of Nebraska at Omaha
Date: Sat, 9 Jan 1993 08:08:01 GMT

Is there actually a Boy's Town in a place other than Omaha? I thought
Omaha was the only city with one.

--
thaaang@cwis.unomaha.edu * John Dorrance * Disco Diva y Flamenco Chico
      You would be surprised at what resides in your insides.
	  S7/9 g++l+(+)y++z++/--(++!!!)o+(+)x+a++uv(++)j+
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: ry@cbnewsl.cb.att.com (ryerson.schwark)
Subject: Re: Why not cure homosexuality?
Organization: UNIX System Laboratories, Summit, NJ
Date: Wed, 6 Jan 1993 23:55:30 GMT

In article <1993Jan6.220943.26407@gordian.com> mike@gordian.com (Michael A. Thomas) writes:
ABOUT..
akcs.kennedy@vpnet.chi.il.us (Edward A. Kennedy) writes:
>
>  Let this creature alone. Trust me on this one. It means it
>but it's not, how say?, dealing from a full deck...

That's an understatement!  a pair of jokers and the duece of clubs and that's
about it.  This guy is one of the net nuts that shows up every six months
or so.  Last time it was lipstick causes anti-gay bigotry or something.
You have been warned.

Ry
ry@usl.com
From: roger@quantime.co.uk (Roger Phillips)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: My Precious (was: Wil Wheaton at MacWorld!!!!!)
Date: 13 Jan 93 01:32:08 GMT
Reply-To: roger@quantime.co.uk (Roger Phillips)
Organization: Quantime Ltd, London (software for market research)

In article <mattm-110193093841@mcmelmon.apple.com>,
mattm@apple.com (Matthew Melmon) writes:
> *X* definitely *not* vegitarian - likes big hunks of juicy
> meat - does *X*  Why *X* talking like this?  Because *X* just
> re-read Elfquest...

Was the portrayal of Gollum in The Lord of the Rings anti-Semitic?

-- 
Roger Phillips                            roger@quantime.co.uk
"*crib-biting* in horses, a vicious habit of biting the manger, etc.,
and swallowing air" -- Chambers English Dictionary (1988)
From: mara@panix.com (Mara Chibnik)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Geography (was Capitalization, still dubious MOTSS content)
Date: 6 Jan 93 15:59:02 GMT
Organization: (getting there)



Brent Davies, brent@syacus.acus.oz.au, contrasts:
  >>"I'm from the city."
  >>"I'm from the City."
and asks:
  >>In the second example, don't you immediately think of one and *only* one
  >>place that could possibly be being referred to?
Charlie Fulton <charlie@isis.mit.edu> writes:
 >New York City, of course.  New York State is divided into three
 >sections: "The City", "Lon Gisland" and "Upstate".

Yeah.  "Upstate" goes about as far up as Albany's northern suburbs.
There are people who have heard of Buffalo and Rochester, which
really aren't much further north than that.  It was very hard to get
used to the idea that where I lived wasn't "Upstate," which ended a
good two hundred miles south of where I lived.

I think that's spelled "Lon Guyland," by the way.  But that doesn't
capture the essence of the local vowels.  Maybe "Lawn Gawyland"
would be better?




-- 

  Mara Chibnik
  mara@panix.com                Life is too important to be taken seriously.
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: jarvis@psych.toronto.edu (Brian Jarvis)
Subject: Re: Nominations for best Men's cologne
Organization: Department of Psychology, University of Toronto
Date: Tue, 5 Jan 1993 18:29:46 GMT

In article <1993Jan4.204040.5631@wixer.cactus.org> will@wixer.cactus.org (Bill Staniewicz) writes:
>Does anyone have any idea what the most popular
>may be within the gay community. Is there any special
>preference? Are the manufacturers aware of this?

Anything resembling Old Spice causes me to melt.  I relax completely to
the point of being limp and my brain goes to mush.  The degree of severity
is embarrassing sometimes.

I'm not sure why this happens; it's a scent I recognize as being familiar
from my childhood, although I can't recall exactly where or when I first
noted it, or why it has such an effect on me currently.

So I'm weird.  Quelle surprise.

Brian
-- 

Brian A. Jarvis,          Rm. 4026, Sidney Smith Hall, Dept. of Psychology,
jarvis@psych.toronto.edu  University of Toronto, Toronto, Ontario, Canada
System Administrator      M5S 1A1  (416) 978-3948
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: twpierce@unix.amherst.edu (Tim Pierce)
Subject: Re: Arne Adolphson, etc.
Organization: Elitist Usenet Administrators, Stuff and Nonsense Division
Date: Fri, 8 Jan 1993 20:44:21 GMT

In article <1993Jan8.175437.23515@spdcc.com> dyer@spdcc.com (Steve Dyer) writes:

>Now, how about trying to be an objective core relative?

The idea of dumping core never sounded so attractive before ...

-- 
____ Tim Pierce                / 
\  / twpierce@unix.amherst.edu /               Rocks say goodbye.
 \/ (BITnet: TWPIERCE@AMHERST) / 
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: coren@speed.osf.org (Robert Coren)
Subject: Re: Another Epithet Discovered (was Re: Do hard times cause hate?)
Organization: Open Software Foundation
Date: Mon, 11 Jan 1993 18:46:21 GMT

In article <1993Jan11.032125.8942@macc.wisc.edu>, anderson@macc.wisc.edu (Jess Anderson) writes:
> In article <1993Jan11.025626.11155@reed.edu> nelson@reed.edu
> (Nelson Minar) writes:
> 
> >Recently bearded Jess says:

In his lair, or elsewhere?

> Ever cantankerous Jess responds :-)

It's nice to know there are constants in an ever-changing world.

(What, by the way, is the derivation of "cantankerous"? I can't see it
without thinking of cankers. And I don't have a dictionary handy, and
I know I won't remember to look it up when I get home.)

> >Is this the AHD's Usage panel's way of giving an example of the word
> >"futility"? At least they claim that a common usage is "not incorrect".
> >I'm used to language fascists telling people they way they speak
> >American isn't Correct.
> 
> What it actually says is something to the effect that 53% of
> the usage panel does not object to the pejorative drift of
> the word.

I could go on at great length about the balance between prescription
and description in dictionaries, but I won't, at least not today.
Suffice it to say that the AHD's use of a "usage panel" of
more-or-less conservative linguistic "experts" to provide guidance on
the acceptability of certain usages was largely a reaction to the
publication a few years earlier of the (Merriam-)Webster's Third
International, which was entirely "descriptive" in a more prescriptive
era, and made no use of style labels of any kind.

And watch what you say about "langauge fascists", young man. You might
be talking about some of your friends.

Getting back to the subject at hand, it seems to me that most of my
life I've heard "epithet" used almost exclusively in the negative
sense, outside of scholarly/literary discussion (as, for example, the
use of "epithets" by Homer).

> 
> But no sense going all to pieces, either! <snap!>

Well, sometimes, it's the only thing that works.
From: owen@autodesk.com (D. Owen Rowley)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: Gay-bashing (was: Re: Private...)
Date: 7 Jan 93 01:49:09 GMT

In article <1993Jan6.202825.15963@netcom.com>, solovay@netcom.com (Andrew Solovay) writes:
> In article <18297@autodesk.COM> owen@autodesk.com (D. Owen Rowley) writes:
> >In article <1993Jan5.212416.1206@netcom.com>, solovay@netcom.com (Andrew Solovay) writes:
> >> Gays, unlike almost every other persecuted minority, are regularly
> >> sought out and beaten simply for existing. (e.g. Klansmen might beat
> >> blacks for getting "out of line", or going into the wrong
> >> neighborhood, but they don't make a habit of going into black
> >> neighborhoods to look for blacks to beat; whereas gay-bashers
> >> routinely go into gay areas to find gays.) We ought to reserve a term
> >> like "gay-bashing" for these violent crimes.

> >unfortunately, your assertion regarding willful - senseles violence
> >against other minoritys just isn't true. This stuff happens all the time.
 
> You're right; I phrased this too strongly. I do think, however, that
> gays are sought out far more aften than other persecuted groups. By
> which I mean that hate crimes against other groups are often triggered
> by some action on the part of the victim which provides a (bad) excuse
> for the bigot (e.g. Yusuf Hawkins's going into a white neighborhood),
> whereas gaybashers will often make a point of looking for gays to
> beat.

I think I understand that you are refering to the phenomenon of
suburban teenagers having a night of fun by driving specifically to gay
areas or cruising spots and targetting the first likely faggot they see.

And I think I understand that you don't really mean that Yusuf hawkins
*deserved* to be murdered because he visited a neighborhood where
*he didn't belong*.

But, your phrasing, might be taken that way by others who don't 
look carefully at the statements.

> I never questioned that other groups are subjected to "willful -
> senseless" violence; but I do think that the violence against gays is
> qualitatively different. More than that, I'm not prepared to pin it
> down (at least not until I get some more sleep).

Oh, I suppose that special factors involved in each oppressed groups
situation may differ somewhat, but I can't imagine that the pain
inflicted is any different at all.

This is the one thing that strayt white men never understand, because
they never experience it. I'm sure this is what melinda meant in the
Andrea Dworkin thread too, and I probably did as poor a job of trying to
explain what I was getting at in that thread as you have here.


LUX ./. owen

--
D. Owen Rowley {uunet,fernwood,sun}!autodesk!owen, owen@autodesk.com
[ EU-PHORIA: A STATE OF WELL BEING ]
Euphoria is my natural state, I do what I enjoy and an abundance 
of all good fortune comes to me for it.
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: foucault@netcom.com (Howard Arthur Faye)
Subject: Re: Nominations for best Men's cologne
Organization: Netcom Online Communications Services (408-241-9760 login: guest)
Date: Tue, 5 Jan 1993 05:36:51 GMT

In article <1993Jan4.204040.5631@wixer.cactus.org> will@wixer.cactus.org (Bill Staniewicz) writes:
>I recently went shopping for a new bottle of
>cologne and was reminded by the variety of choices
>available. Among those were: Obsession, Drakkar Noir,
>Stetson, Kouros, and Eternity for Men. 
>
>Does anyone have any idea what the most popular
>may be within the gay community. Is there any special
>preference? Are the manufacturers aware of this?
>
>Perhaps we could have nominations and take a vote.
I remember when 'Brut' (a truly foul balm now available even
at 99 Cent stores) was test marketed in the gay market; it was
then that I decided that arbitration of taste may be the forte
of *some* gay men-- but it wasn't pandemic.


>
>-- 
>Bill
>will@wixer.cactus.org
>


-- 
Howard Arthur Faye * Panglossian Acres * Box 7 * Littlerock, CA   93543

"To eat, to love, to sing, and to digest; in truth, these are the four
acts in this opera bouffe that we call life, and which vanishes like 
bubbles in a bottle of champagne."     --Gioacchino Rossini



Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: jeanmarc@Ingres.COM (Jean-Marc Fortier)
Subject: Gay rodeos in Phoenix and Tucson AZ, when are they?
Reply-To: jeanmarc@squid.ingres.com (Jean-Marc Fortier)
Organization: Ingres, The ASK Group
X-Newsreader: Tin 1.1 PL5
Distribution: net
Date: 12 Jan 93 02:13:12 GMT


	When are the gay rodeos in Phoenix and Tucson?

	Please email or post info.

	Thanks

	Jean-Marc


Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: tom@flood.com (Tom Chatt)
Subject: Re: US Schools Adding Lessons on Gay Life
Organization: The Flood Group, Inc.  Torrance, Ca.
Date: Sat, 9 Jan 93 23:39:36 GMT

pfieland@citron.sw.stratus.com (Peggy Fieland) writes:
| In article <1993Jan6.213013.24907@PacBell.COM> rjwill6@pbsdts.sdcrc.pacbell.com (Rod Williams) writes:
| > (stuff deleted for space)
| >The article suggests that New York City ran into
| >trouble with its similar "Children of the Rainbow" curriculum
| >because it failed to include parents in developing the
| >curriculum and is trying to introduce it to first-graders,
| >rather than older kids (6th/7th graders), like other, more
| >successful programs...
| 
| I'm sure that involving the parents and getting them to buy in is
| a good way to gain acceptance for the programs, but what is
| the objection to introducing these programs to first graders?
| As far as I'm concerned, the sooner the better on programs like
| this.  In first grade, I'd think that the kids have a better chance
| of having their preconceptions knocked loose, so to speak.  Sixth
| and seventh graders are on the brink of adolescence, and I'd think
| that they'd already have absorbed a world view that views same-sex
| relationships in a negative light.  Or is that the point?

I agree that such education should be started in the first grade.
The objections are based on the widespread misconception that
any discussion of homosexuality is necessarily a discussion of sex.
Just as many mainstream people don't see such things as CO-2 as
bad, because they fall for the "special rights" rhetoric, they
also fall for the rhetoric that "rainbow" curriculum is teaching
*sex* to first-graders.

The misinformation needs to be countered by explaining that the
curriculum is about *families*, not about sex. This is *so*
obvious to many of us that sometimes we forget it needs to be
pointed out to others.

-- 
Tom Chatt                        \   Don't take offense, take action.
Internet: tom@flood.com           \    Speak up. When we remain silent,
UUCP: ...!uunet!flood!tom        / \     we oppress ourselves.
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: ry@cbnewsl.cb.att.com (ryerson.schwark)
Subject: Re: Dissertation on soc.motss (PLEASE READ)
Organization: UNIX System Laboratories, Summit, NJ
Date: Tue, 12 Jan 1993 14:58:07 GMT

In article <C0puqC.19u@wolves.Durham.NC.US> wolfe@wolves.Durham.NC.US (G. Wolfe Woodbury) writes:
>
>Oh Dear!
>	I've just read the "prospectus" for the research, and
>Grandmother Kruella is going to be simply furious!

Don't worry, the *NASTY* boy will get his, my Wolfie dear.  On the
13th, same place as the time before last, not counting that time.

KK.
From: Furr@cup.portal.com (George Dalton Madison)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: Nominations for best Men's cologne
Date: Tue,  5 Jan 93 22:33:15 PST
Organization: The Portal System (TM)
  <C0E1Ax.DDM@fig.citib.com> <1993Jan5.173732.12576@spdcc.com>
  <1ick6qINN8m9@spim.mti.sgi.com>

Jeff Dauber (FWA) writes:
>My nomination for best men's cologne is more of a recipe:
>
>Ingredients:
>1. Healthy diet
>2. unscented soap
>3. man
>
>Feed man with healthy diet.  Clean in morning with unscented soap.
>Have man work all day.  The scent is wonderful from the begingin of
>the day to the end...

Seconded.... *ENTHUSIASTICALLY*!

 
() Life is something that happens to you while you're busy
() making plans.
()      -- John Lennon
-----
[> George D. Madison | NBCS: B8f+t+w-e+s+k+a!cv | Just say NO to razors! <]
[> It's a BEAR thing -- you wouldn't understand. <|> furr@cup.portal.com <]
Newsgroups: soc.motss
From: nigel@stonewall.demon.co.uk (Nigel Whitfield)
Subject: Re: Nominations for best Men's cologne
Organization: Jenny Agutter Fan Club
Date: Tue, 5 Jan 1993 21:17:56 +0000

In article <1993Jan5.180230.5316@psych.toronto.edu> paul@psych.toronto.edu (Paul Hastings) writes:
>
>Cool Water by Davidoff is my favourite right now.  

The ads for Cool Water on TV over here seem to spend an awful lot of
time lingering over a hunky guy. There's a particularly good shot of
his bum. Can't think *who* they're aimed at...

Nigel.
-- 
[Nigel Whitfield                               nigel@stonewall.demon.co.uk]
[For details on the uk-motss mailing list mail uk-motss-request@pyra.co.uk]
[*****  All demon.co.uk sites are independently run internet hosts   *****]
From: adolphso@mizar.usc.edu (adolphson)
Newsgroups: soc.motss
Subject: Re: Year of the Queer
Date: 12 Jan 1993 16:44:19 -0800
Organization: University of Southern California, Los Angeles, CA
NNTP-Posting-Host: mizar.usc.edu

In article <1993Jan12.225008.6472@spdcc.com> 
dyer@spdcc.com (Steve Dyer) writes:

> Speaking of astonishingly naive...  Stonewall didn't happen in a vacuum,
> you know.

Well, yes, I think we're all aware of that.  The fact of
the matter is that when the current gay pride holiday/parade/
celebration/street fair business began in 1970, it EXPLICITLY
marked the first anniversary of Stonewall.  It was understood
then by the people who were in the midst of it all that Stonewall
marked a sea change: there was a before Stonewall and an
after Stonewall.  

> If someone had asked me what the reaction here to someone exhibiting
> insufficient reverence for the Stonewall event would be, I would not
> have been more wrong.  The insufferable ex-cathedra pronouncements of
> what _shall be_ important are pretty amusing to read. 

Stonewall _is_ important.  There's nothing particularly ex-cathedra
about that simple statement of fact.  And, since it's a -- if not
the -- formative event in modern American lesbigay history, it
has affected all non-American lesbigay commuities that have 
patterned themselves after the American example.
 
> And the notion
> that moving Pride Day to the nearest weekend to the date of Stonewall
> is OK, but not any further, makes me think of the Old Believers.

I'm not particularly interested in the on-going fight between
San Francisco and LA, or in the fact that Philadelphia schedules
its parade so that people can go to New York's, too.

> Maybe we should keep track of "head of the pin" discussions.
> This is one of 'em, fer sure.

Oh, I don't know.  I'm still interested to hear all about 
those cruisy gay bath houses in 1890s La Paz, Bolivia.

Arne
Newsgroups: soc.motss