From: bowers@rigel.dfrf.nasa.gov (Al Bowers)
Subject: Re: Best fighterpilot ?!?!
Organization: NASA Dryden, Edwards, Cal.
	<AAPO.93Jan9104538@spirit.hut.fi>
Date: Mon, 11 Jan 1993 20:27:02 GMT

In article <AAPO.93Jan9104538@spirit.hut.fi> aapo@niksula.hut.fi (A.J. Heijola) writes:

>>Anyone got a count of how many Germans scored over 100?  Eric Hartman 
>>holds the all-time high of 352 (I think), of which 8 were against the 
>>Anglo-Americans, the rest aginst the Soviets (from a memory of long 
>>ago).

>It is true that a couple of German fighter pilots from WWII do have
>impressive "scores", but that is partly due to the tactics used.
>In order to get great fighter-aces with high shot-down-numbers
>fighters went on missions together in larger groups where most
>of the fighters were just watching the backside for the best pilot, so
>that they could get a nice number of kills.  Also in cross-fire drops
>the score was allways marked for the ace.  All this was done to
>make good propaganda.  Imagine what an effect it has when all
>the people here is like: .... and Hartman has scored his 157th
>victory.......

I'd like to give two accounts (one from a German "Ritterkruez" ace and
the other from an Allied source).  I'm not saying that what you say
didn't happen, but the evidence is to the contrary.  And the stories
told of German aces getting kills not from others are usually Allied
propaganda that is unsubstantiated when records are available (many
were destroyed at the close of the war).  Also the only `crack
Luftwaffe outfit' from the German records was the JG 44, but they were
only from the end of Feb '45 to the end of the war.  And to quote a
knowledgable source :"During and after the war there was much loose
talk about `crack Luftwaffe fighter units'.  The term implies a unit
with more than its share of ace pilots and able to draw them in from
other units.  In the nature of things, such units are rare for the
fighting power of the depleted units is reduced by the loss of such
key individuals."  Your statement also implies equal skill between
combatants, when in fact great variation existed between pilots, and
the more skillful and experienced pilots would be expected to score
more often.

"...One of my combat flights from Staraja, Russia, at ilmansee in the
area of Wolchow is as clear to metoday as the day I flew it.  I was
leading a flight of four Me-109s and ran into a group of six Soviet
style single-winged planes of an unknown type.  During the ensuing air
battl, we were sucessful in shooting down all six aircraft.  After we
landed, my three wingmen and I were beaming with joy and pride.  I
ordered them to "go to the briefing room and each sit in a seperate
corner and write a completely independant report of the engagement.
Afterwards, we'll combine them into one consolidated battel replort."
All three NCOs, all experienced pilots with recognized kills of their
own, did exactly as ordered.  Based on the reports written, it
appeared that we had destroyed nine enemy aircraft.  It was certain
that we had engaged only six airplanes so we had reported three too
many kills...  ...Not because of any evidence, but because of my
Commander's authority, I decided to give up one of my claims and two
of my wingmen would also have to do the same...  ...In our case, the
final report was in line with the total number of losses on the side
of the enemy."

Source:  "Top Secret Bird", Wolfgang Spaate (99 kills)

"...Twenty German pilots reported contact with the enemy, and they
claimed the destruction of six bombers and two fighters.  One Me 262
was lost and its pilot killed.  American records list nine bombers and
eight fighters lost on that day, and claim no Me 262 destroyed..."

Source:  "Last Year of the Luftwaffe", Alfred Price.

One statistic is that only about a third of all cfighter missions made
contact with the enemy.  The typical number of missions flown by most
Luftwaffe aces was on the order of 1,000.  Steinhoff's 176 victories
came in 900 missions.  Assuming he had enemy contact on a third of
those, he allowed 123 others to `get away'.  :-) Hartmann had over
1,000 (I seem to remember it was just under 1,200 missions).  So
Hartmann was maybe a better marksman than Steinhoff?

--
Al Bowers                       bowers@rigel.dfrf.nasa.gov
NASA F-18 High Alpha Research Vehicle, Lead Aero
NASA, Dryden Flight Research Facility, Edwards, California