HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: claudius@leland.Stanford.EDU (Nelson Lu)
Subject: Re: Sheffield is NL MVP
Organization: DSG, Stanford University, CA 94305, USA
Date: Thu, 8 Oct 92 19:15:34 GMT

In article <1992Oct8.152300.1935@island.COM> fester@island.COM (Mike Fester) writes:

>And Nelson, the fact that it doesn't account for moving runners farther along
>than 1 base on a single and 2 bases on a double would SEEM to indicate that
>you just aren't understanding the concept here. 
>
>>You mentioned that OBP gives a walk and a homer equal weight, but what else do
>>you expect it to do?  It is *not* a measure of total offense; it is only
>>supposed to measure how often a player gets on base; no more, no less.
>
>And SLG is SUPPOSED to measure how far the batter gets per at bat without 
>costing his team a runner; no more no less.

Mike, you have wandered away from the original intent here.

The original discussion is whether if OPS is an accurate measure of a player,
and why I would take the player with the higher OBP if two players have the
same OPS.

The reason is, there are two components to scoring runs:

1.	Getting on base to let your teammates (including yourself) drive you
	in.

2.	Driving your teammates (including yourself) in.

OBP measures the first aspect almost completely.

But SLG does not measure the second aspect completely, since it ignores the
moving of runners by walks.  Therefore, when you add OBP and SLG together to
produce OPS, you get *all* of the first component but only a majority of the
second component.

===============================================================================
GO CALIFORNIA ANGELS!
===============================================================================
Nelson Lu (claudius@leland.stanford.edu)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
From: dave@snitor.sni.ca (Dave Till)
Subject: Re: Cito Manages reasonable in Game #1
Organization: Cito Gaston Non-Bashers, Inc.
Distribution: na
Date: Tue, 13 Oct 1992 18:46:37 GMT

In article <9OCT199221180408@jhuvms.hcf.jhu.edu> doctor8@jhuvms.hcf.jhu.edu (Jason Abner Miller) writes:
>>By the way what difference does it make whether it's a home game or not? 
>	Fact:  The Jays have one of the better bullpens in the A.L.
>	They've got the Tom-inator
>	They've got Duane Ward.
>	Hell, they even gave up Greg Myers to get Mark Eichhorn back.
>I think that David Wells would be quality for any manager whose name isn't
>"Cito".  And Mike Timlin ain't nothing to sneeze at.

I think Cito did the right thing in Game 1.  Morris's pitch count wasn't
that high, and he'd been pitching quite well after his Taterfest in the
second.

Sure, the Jays have a deep bullpen.  However, the game looked like it was
going into extra innings, and it was the first game of what looked to be
a tough series.  Ward is strong, but he's not indestructible, and the
Jays will have a greater need of him later on.  (See Game 4.)

Henke is only good for one inning (he worked *far* less than Eckersley did
over the season).  I'm (pleasantly) surprised he's done this well so far.

Timlin appears to be ahead of Eichhorn right now:  he's worked twice in
key situations, whereas Eichhorn has only been used to mop up.  (Eichhorn
has a terrible average against lefties, which probably explains this.)

"David Wells" and "quality" are currently so far apart from one another that
it would take a long-distance call for one to reach the other.

--Dave "that wasn't a cheap shot; trust me" Till
e-mail path:  dave@silver.sni.ca or dave@snitor.uucp
From: rwd4f@poe.acc.Virginia.EDU (Rob Dobson)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
Subject: Re: freon Deion
Date: 8 Oct 92 16:44:45 GMT
Article-I.D.: murdoch.1992Oct8.164445.28935
Organization: University of Virginia

In article <70458@hydra.gatech.EDU> tmiller@prism.gatech.EDU (Thomas Miller) writes:
>
>
>  Has anyone else out there about had it with Deion's antics?  He's a
>lot like Ross Perot it seems - changing his mind on a whim.  People
>here in Atlanta seem to think he's great, but I don't see how in the
>world he's important enough to fly to Pittsburgh Sunday from his
>Falcons game just to be able to play in the Braves game (if you
>hadn't heard, that's supposedly what he plans to do).

in case you havent heard, after spanking the 'rats onm friday and saturday,
the deion will have no need to fly to pittsburgh, unless he wants to
torment dejected pittsburgh fans whose team has blown it AGAIN.

we want a SWEEP.

-rob
From: tallynnk@NeXTwork.Rose-Hulman.Edu (Nicholas K Tallyn)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
Subject: Re: NLCS Questions
Date: 14 Oct 92 22:51:15 GMT
Article-I.D.: master.1bi893INNam2
Reply-To: tallynnk@NeXTwork.Rose-Hulman.Edu (Nicholas K Tallyn)
Organization: Computer Science Department at Rose-Hulman
NNTP-Posting-Host: o231-30.nextwork.rose-hulman.edu

ccohen+@pitt.edu (Caleb N Cohen) writes:

>Friends,
>  Two simple questions, as the Subject states:
>
>1) I know that the ALCS has never ended in 6 games, has the NLCS  
ever done
>	so?
>
>2) Has a pitcher ever recorded 3 losses in the (N)LCS?
>
>3) Has a *starting* pitcher ever recorded 3 losses in the (N)LCS?
>

I believe that Cincinnatti beat Pittsburgh 4-2 in 1990...
Also, I believe that no pitcher(especially starting pitcher) has lost  
3 games in either LCS...
I don't have any information near me, so these are from memory...


-- NewsGrazer, a NeXTstep(tm) news reader, posting --
M>UQR=&8P7&%N<VE[7&9O;G1T8FQ<9C!<9FUO9&5R;B!#;W5R:65R.WT*7&UA
M<F=L,3(P"EQM87)G<C$R,`I[7&-O;&]R=&)L7')E9#!<9W)E96XP7&)L=64P
M.WT*7'!A<F1<='@Q,S0T7'1X,C8X.%QT>#0P,S)<='@U,S<V7'1X-C<R,%QT
M>#@P-C1<='@Y-#`X7'1X,3`W-3)<='@Q,C`Y-EQT>#$S-#0P7&8P7&(P7&DP
M7'5L,%QF<S(X7&9C,"!C8V]H96XK0'!I='0N961U("A#86QE8B!.($-O:&5N
M*2!W<FET97,Z7`I<"CY&<FEE;F1S+%P*/B`@5'=O('-I;7!L92!Q=65S=&EO
M;G,L(&%S('1H92!3=6)J96-T('-T871E<SI<"CY<"CXQ*2!)(&MN;W<@=&AA
M="!T:&4@04Q#4R!H87,@;F5V97(@96YD960@:6X@-B!G86UE<RP@:&%S('1H
M92!.3$-3(&5V97(@9&]N95P*/@ES;S]<"CY<"CXR*2!(87,@82!P:71C:&5R
M(&5V97(@<F5C;W)D960@,R!L;W-S97,@:6X@=&AE("A.*4Q#4S]<"CY<"CXS
M*2!(87,@82`J<W1A<G1I;F<J('!I=&-H97(@979E<B!R96-O<F1E9"`S(&QO
M<W-E<R!I;B!T:&4@*$XI3$-3/UP*/EP*7`I)(&)E;&EE=F4@=&AA="!#:6YC
M:6YN871T:2!B96%T(%!I='1S8G5R9V@@-"TR(&EN(#$Y.3`N+BY<"D%L<V\L
M($D@8F5L:65V92!T:&%T(&YO('!I=&-H97(H97-P96-I86QL>2!S=&%R=&EN
M9R!P:71C:&5R*2!H87,@;&]S="`S(&=A;65S(&EN(&5I=&AE<B!,0U,N+BY<
M"DD@9&]N)W0@:&%V92!A;GD@:6YF;W)M871I;VX@;F5A<B!M92P@<V\@=&AE
:<V4@87)E(&9R;VT@;65M;W)Y+BXN7`H*?0II
`
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
From: steph@m.cs.uiuc.edu (Dale Stephenson)
Subject: Re: BUSH CAMP ACCUSES CLINTON OF TREASON
Organization: University of Illinois, Dept. of Comp. Sci., Urbana, IL
Date: Fri, 16 Oct 1992 21:59:05 GMT

In <64.X666X@ramona.com> doug@ramona.com (Double Agent) writes:

>[...]the President explained, "I can't cite chapter and
>verse--and I'm sure the press will help me on this tomorrow--but I think
>it is plain wrong when an American running for President supports the
>baseball team of another country in the World Series.

I don't know what's weirder:

Bush supporting a team owned by Ted & Jane AND in a different league than
his son's team

or southern governor Clinton supporting a team from Canada with ex-Yankees.

Perot is probably wondering why they don't discuss real issues -- football.

Go Braves!
(And Go Bush!, but that belongs in a different newsgroup.)

-- 
Dale J. Stephenson |*| (steph@cs.uiuc.edu) |*| Gigabit Study Group 

  "It is considered good to look wise, especially when not 
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
From: steph@cs.uiuc.edu (Dale Stephenson)
Subject: Re: Braves in Fulton for '93?
Organization: University of Illinois, Dept. of Comp. Sci., Urbana, IL
Date: Wed, 7 Oct 1992 23:28:02 GMT

In <16879887E.ISTRE-A@RICEVM1.RICE.EDU> ISTRE-A@RICEVM1.RICE.EDU writes:
>Several years ago, when the Braves were wallowing in last place and were
>drawing 10,000 or less for a game, many were critical of the stadium.
>saying it was a bad place to watch baseball. This year, the Braves drew
>over 3 million in the same ballpark and no one is critizing the stadium.
>It is amazing what happens when the team wins two straight NL West titles.
>While I have never been to FCS, on TV, it looks like a pretty decent ball
>park to me.

OK, I'll say it.  I don't like it.  It's a boring multipurpose stadium.  It
does have good points (such as open air and real grass), and the grounds
crew has done a *fantastic* job the last few years.  But Camden Yards it's
not.

(It is better than the 'Stick, though.)
--
Dale J. Stephenson |*| (steph@cs.uiuc.edu) |*| Baseball fanatic

  "It is considered good to look wise, especially when not 
   overburdened with information" -- J. Golden Kimball
From: psg+@pitt.edu (Paul S Galvanek)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
Subject: Re: NLCS Game #5 at 9:41
Date: 14 Oct 92 18:46:44 GMT
Organization: University of Pittsburgh

In article <1992Oct13.153336.20166@access.usask.ca> (Gerry Gryschuk) writes:
>
>Oh I see so Bonds can hit anything is that what your saying? Are you
>seriously trying to make the case that Bonds should swing at pitchers
>that are clearly unhittable? Besides a batters job is to not make an
>out period! Now some nonouts are better than others but all nonouts are
>better than outs.
>

No I'm not saying he should swing at everything.  I'm saying that several
times this series there have been situations that prove to me that statistical
analysis, while being useful for some things, is inadequate as an explination
of everything that goes on in the game.  I fully expect that I'll now hear that
no one here has ever made that arguement, but I know I have.  

This particular situation, Bonds taking the walk with 2 outs and a runner on 
third, clearly demonstrates to me that despite statistical evidence there is 
a such thing as "protection in a batting order".  As many of you have clearly
pointed out Bonds is NOT getting the hit because he's NOT getting pitches that
can be hit, WHY?  Because rightly or wrongly the pitcher believes there is a
less effective hitter behind and pitches accordingly - throwing pitches that 
skilled hitters like Bonds usually won't touch (thus drawing many walks) or
less skilled hitters will attempt to hit and more often than not make outs.

In this situation  drawing the walk certianly increases a number like OBP
but that is not always a good thing.  You would easily be able to argue that
Bonds' high OPB is clear evidence that he's a superior hitter - and you'd get
no arguement from me.  But I believe it is an equally plausible arguement that
a high OPB demonstrates a lack of "protection".  Whether statistically 
demonstrated or not, this stituation in game 4 (?) which is in no way a unique
occurance at least hints that "protection" does exist.

To the other matter, as to whether my assertion that someone claimed a hit and
walk are the same (or some variation on that theme), sorry but some of you may
choose at this time to deny making that arguement but I know that's not the case
Repeatedly through out the season(s) when a r.s.b regular sees his/her favorite 
player attacked for having a low BA, the first thing they point to is their
OBP and follow up with "see he walked x number of times and that's just as 
good as a hit." 

In fact my first assaults on Bobby Bonilla's inconsistant BA (over his
career) were responded to with that very arguement.


PSG
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
From: dave@snitor.sni.ca (Dave Till)
Subject: Re: season over for SDCNs?
Organization: Proud Coneheads, Inc. [Hoarse Fans Division]
Date: Fri, 9 Oct 1992 20:16:43 GMT

In article <1992Oct7.014244.9150@ramsey.cs.laurentian.ca> 91287041@ramsey.cs.laurentian.ca (Roger Maynard) writes:
>Blue Jay fans are damn tired of the "very good year".  It may seem arrogant
>in Cleveland perhaps, but anything less than a WS appearance will be con-
>sidered a failure by most Toronto fans.

I am a Blue Jay fan, and I am *not* tired of the "very good year".  I will
be very disappointed if they do not advance to the World Series, true;
however, any year that involves post-season play is a good year.  Hell,
any year in which a team contends is a good year, and the Jays have had
ten good years in a row now (counting 1988, in which the Jays sort of
hovered near contention all season long).  I am profoundly grateful.

Roger is right when he says that anything less than a WS appearance will
be considered a failure by most Toronto fans.  However, this just means that
there are a large number of Toronto fans out there who have been
spoiled rotten by success.

>>You know, in a way I'd like to see the Jays win the LCS and the Series with
>>Jack Morris going a combined 0-5 with an ERA around 12, and Carter going
>>about 1-43 with a couple of GIDP's. Let Manny Lee hit 3 HRs in the LCS and
>>Kelly Gruber hit about .650 with 2 HRs in the Series. The stunned silence
>>would be *wonderful*.

Gruber's got one of the home runs already.  I damn near fainted when he
hit it.

>I wouldn't want to see anybody go 0-5 with an ERA around 12.  Nor I would
>I wish a 1-43 on anybody, not even Rickey.

I, on the other hand, would (attempt to) dance handsprings if Rickey went
1-43.  It's about time that showoff got his.  All those snatch catches.
Publicly bragging that Ernie Whitt couldn't throw him out.  Giving
the SkyDome fans the finger in game 1.  Single-handedly beating the Jays
in the 1989 series.  Constantly whining and complaining.  I can't stand
the man.  (I admit that he is the greatest leadoff hitter of all time.)

[P.S.:  Hey, Huckabay:  hell of a series so far, isn't it?]

--Dave "currently wearing a 'Winfield wants noise' T-shirt" Till
e-mail path:  dave@silver.sni.ca or dave@snitor.uucp
(or try dwtill@watyew.waterloo.edu)
From: ko@teecs.UUCP (Sam Ko)
Date: Tue, 6 Oct 1992 15:05:14 GMT
Subject: Re: jays starters for lcs
Organization: Litton Systems, Toronto ONT
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball

I'll say the Jays will take it in 6 games and go all the way to 
the World Series. They have the strongest pitching staff in the
League and if they put them all together, it is almost unbeatable.
Six months hard work finally paid off and they really deserved to
be there. Best of luck, Jays and all the way to the World Series.

             ____________________________
~~~~~~~~~~~~ |     Go   J A Y S   Go    | ~~~~~~~~~~~~~
             ----------------------------
From: jw5f+@andrew.cmu.edu (John Wayne Weber)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
Subject: Re: Announcer's call of Cabrerra's hit
Date: 15 Oct 92 19:55:28 GMT
	<IerLAEL0BwxdBU3pt8@transarc.com>
Organization: Sophomore, Civil Engineering, Carnegie Mellon, Pittsburgh, PA

>  Note to Ted Simmons:
 
>  GET US A (*&^%(*&%(*&%(*&^ RELIEF PITCHER THAT CAN
>ACTUALLY DO THE JOB SO THAT OUR %)@#&^(@ STARTING
>PITCHERS DON'T HAVE TO PITCH 9 INNINGS EVERY *&(^&(*^
>TIME OUT.
 
>Ken

I agree completely.  In '60 the Pirates won with E Face, in '71 it was
Guisti, and in '79 it was Tekulve.  I am really disappointed in Belinda,
he never seems to be able to finish a game. The Pirates will never make
it to the World Series until they get a closer.

Despite this fact, the Braves cannot consider themselves anything but lucky.

Its over, so its over.

jww
From: kiviat@oasys.dt.navy.mil (Brian Kiviat)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
Subject: Re: Pittsburg Fans
Date: 13 Oct 92 12:06:46 GMT
Reply-To: kiviat@oasys.dt.navy.mil (Brian Kiviat)
Organization: Carderock Division, NSWC, Bethesda, MD

Does anyone know what the average attendence per game was for the Pirates
this year. If the Pitt fans are so great, this better be high.

   O                                        You don't stop surfing
   I\   Brian Kiviat (301)227-1833          when you grow old,
   I \  kiviat@oasys.dt.navy.mil            you grow old
  /     David Taylor Model Basin            when you stop surfing.
   \___________________________
			     \\
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
From: (Gerry Gryschuk)
Subject: Re: The origin of the _World_ Series
Organization: University of Saskatchewan
Date: Fri, 16 Oct 1992 22:44:39 GMT

From article <1992Oct16.155954.6079@cs.cornell.edu>, by tedward@cs.cornell.edu (Edward [Ted] Fischer):
> In article <1992Oct15.193346.4382@murdoch.acc.Virginia.EDU> drw3l@delmarva.evsc.Virginia.EDU (David Robert Walker) writes:
>>
>>Hockey: The NHL, if memory serves, is as much a US invention as
>>Canadian, though with more Canadian players by far. I give Canada
>>full credit for being ahead of the US in hockey. But not necessarily
>>the world. Europe plays excellent hockey. (Founding cities of the NHL
>>include New York, Boston, Chicago, Detroit, Montreal, and Toronto)
> 
> I don't think there is any contest here.  The Olympic hockey teams
> (both Canadian and US) are quite competitive.  And they simply aren't
> *close* to the level of the NHL.  In 1994 (?), we will probably see
> a team of (Canadian) NHL stars play in the Olympics.  I believe they
> will win by even bigger margins than the Basketball Dream Team did.

Somehow this has strayed to a discussion about a sport that I'm much
more comfortable talking about. Any Canadian and US hockey teams that
could be culled from the rosters of the NHL would be extremely good.
However they would not win by bigger margins than the US basketball
team did. Hockey is a much more balanced sport throughout the world
than basketball is.

The quality of the Russians,Swedes,Czechs,Americans etc. that are currently in
the NHL would make the Olympic Tournament truely a top notch competition.
It would certainly be on par with some of the greatest games I've seen
played.  Expecting any team to dominate like the US basketball team did
would be setting oneself up for extreme disappointment.
--
Gerald Gryschuk            Saskatoon,Saskatchewan = a place with 9 months
gerry@sask.usask.ca           of hockey and 3 months of poor skating.
Go Habs!!!		             (Maldonado is a bum.)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
From: hbrooks@uiatma.atmos.uiuc.edu (Harold_Brooks)
Subject: The Saddest Words of Tongue and Pen
Organization: NSSL
Date: Fri, 16 Oct 1992 14:21:27 GMT

Yesterday, I was castigated (thankfully they tell me its rever-
sible) via e-mail by Bob Davis for my signature being "not
nearly as interesting as usual" since the end of the season.
Since this has led to his life being incomplete, he begged
for...

Andres Galarraga trivia!!!

So, even though it has already been commented on in this news-
group, you all just knew that I couldn't pass up the news that
the Cardinals have decided not to exercise their option on 
Andres for 1993.  (I saw it in _The Norman Transcript_, so it
must be true.)  Yes, this means that the other 27 major league
teams now have the opportunity to pick up Andres the Giant
without having to give the Cardinals anything.  (Say, didn't
Mark McGwire play some third base in the minors.  The Athletics
could move him back to third and, hmm....  Where's Alderson's
phone number?  Huckabay, can you tell Sandy to call me?  Thanks!)

I know that you will all join me in an appropriate gesture of 
mourning over the apparent departure from the active playing ranks
of one of the great symbols of baseball.  Perhaps a pledge to not
watch baseball for the next 10 days or so.  I think it would be
fitting.:-)

The end of the Galarraga Era in Saint Louis causes us all to 
pause and reminisce about times gone by.  For me, I remember
that warm feeling rising from the pit of my stomach when I 
first heard the rumor that the Cardinals (or rather My Pal 
Dal) were interested in him.  It also brings back those oh-so-
fond memories of one of MPD's other great acquisitions, Bob
"Sushi Bat" Horner.  For comparison, I've listed Horner's
heart-stopping 1988 season with Galarraga's glittering '92.

BATTERS        BA   SLG   OBP   AB   H  TB 2B 3B HR RBI  BB  SO
HORNER, B.   .257  .354  .348  206  53  73  9  1  3  33  32  23
GALARRAGA,A  .243  .391  .282  325  79 127 14  2 10  39  11  69  

You can see we're back to the old SLG v. OBP debate here.  I 
have to go with the extra 66 points of OBP outweighing the 37
points of SLG and give the nod to Horner for having the better
rate of production.  We have to balance that against the extra
~110 PA that Galarraga got.  Andres did create 36 runs vs. 25
for Horner, but at this rate of production, it's not clear that
having more PAs may not actually be a negative.  On the whole,
it's a tough call as to who was worse.  The external factors
may be the deciding point--the Cardinals gave up Ken Hill to get
Galarraga and I think the Horner acquisition spelled the beginning
of the end of the Herzog era in Saint Louis.  Whitey knew at that
moment, since he had publicly voiced his opposition to the signing,
that he no longer had any influence in personnel matters.

Harold
-- 
Harold Brooks                    hbrooks@uiatma.atmos.uiuc.edu
National Severe Storms Laboratory/CIMMS (Norman, OK)
Andres Galarraga:  ex-Cardinal as of 15 October 1992
From: chill@cbnews.cb.att.com (daniel.a.miller)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
Subject: Re: Sanders vs McCarver
Date: 16 Oct 92 19:07:44 GMT
Article-I.D.: cbnews.1992Oct16.190744.2679
Distribution: na
Organization: AT&T

In article <1992Oct16.170614.21876@daffy.cs.wisc.edu> jeffr@ssec.wisc.edu (Jeff Ramin) writes:
>I'm very surprised I haven't seen any postings concerning what Deion "I'm
>a two sport athlete and God and everybody loves me and I can't do anything
>wrong" Sanders did to Tim McCarver in the locker room after the Braves win.
>
>For those of you who don't know, he dumped several {4 I think} coolers of
>ice water on McCarver instead of champagne because he wasn't happy about
>some criticizing remarks McCarver made about Sanders playing football for
>the Falcons Sunday when he had told the Braves he wouldn't.  McCarver was
>visibly upset; the situation wasn't too far away from punches.
>
>I never liked him.  I'm starting to despise him.  Talk about an attitude
>problem.


	This guy, Sanders, is TOAST!! The Braves organization will not
take any more of his antics, and ubcertainty of being a full time
Baseball player vs Football. Yes, Deion had a good year this year, but he 
was NOT the missing link to get them to a World Series Championship! He
belongs in Football, and after the NLCS game 7, I think we've all
found out he's taken too many blows to the head! 

- Dan
  Tribe in 94'
Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball
From: thornley@milli.cs.umn.edu (David H. Thornley)
Subject: Re: Bonds in Game 4: The Last Straw
Organization: University of Minnesota
Distribution: na
Date: Mon, 12 Oct 1992 00:59:19 GMT

In <11OCT199211242395@jhuvms.hcf.jhu.edu> doctor8@jhuvms.hcf.jhu.edu (Jason Abner Miller) writes:

>	Judging from some of the reactions I've seen posted here during the
>NLCS, at least one person is going to post today and say that Barry Bonds'
>two walks in last night's Braves victory proved without a doubt that he 
>hasn't been choking in this series.  I'd just like to remind everyone that
>Smoltz was obviously pitching around him in those at-bats, and those walks
>do not represent a "good batting eye" or "getting on base for the team".

Certainly.  Now, what was he supposed to do?  Swing at those awful pitches?
He'd just make outs.

>	And as for his at-bat against Stanton in the seventh inning:  This
>proves WITHOUT A DOUBT that ol' Barry is a Playoff Choker (TM).  This at-bat
>was his FINAL opportunity in the NLCS to prove that he doesn't choke in
>the post-season, and he once again struck out on some pitches that even
>Devon White or Oscar Azocar wouldn't have swung at.  

You're being inconsistent.  The walks mean nothing, since they're on pitches
way out of the strike zone, and the whiffs mean he chokes.  What in the name
of Eddie Yost is he supposed to do?  If he lays off the bad stuff, you say
he's not helping, and if he swings you say he chokes.  Either give him credit
for walking or don't blame him for fanning.  Your choice.

BTW, what are the Brave supposed to do?  When there's a guy on third, two out,
a really dangerous hitter at the plate with King on deck?  Normally I don't
buy "protection" arguments but I do think Bonds might have seen something
close to the strike zone if the Pirates had somebody batting behind him.
Unfortunately, the only Pirate third basemen with real bats this year have
been Buechele and Young, and neither are on the post-season roster.

David Thornley
"Do not ask one of your players to play beyond his ability."
- Niccolo Machiavelli

Newsgroups: rec.sport.baseball