HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: jthomas@video1.almaden.ibm.com (John G. Thomas)
Newsgroups: rec.autos
Subject: Re: G20 vs. Altima, Fast vs. Slow
Date: 18 Nov 92 15:45:22 GMT
Organization: IBM Almaden Research Center

>
>i think the question was why buy the infiniti G20 when you can get
>a sentra SE-R with the same engine for 6 grand less.  a pretty fair
>question, i think.  i think the G20 would be terrific if it cost $15k.
>it is very smooth and has excellent handling.  but... it still feels
>like a small car, and i think $19k is a bit much for that.
>when the sentra SE-R (admittedly noisier and less refined) can
>be had for considerably less, the G20 starts looking worse.  if i 

But these numbers are a bit off.  The G20 costs the dealer 14,640 and
in todays buyers market you should be able to get it for under 15,500.
The Sentra SE-R costs the dealer 10,733 and add ABS (600), A/C (720),
AM/FM (400) and you are only saving 3K with the Sentra SE/R.  Now figure
out the worth to you of other things like, 70K warrenty, Power everything
(a negative for me), 4 doors,  much better handling,  etc and you may find
as I did that the G20 is a much better buy.  It will probably have a
better resale value also.
* above figures are from Edmonds 92 Inport car prices.

John Thomas		Almaden Research Center K55/801
jthomas@almaden.ibm.com		(408)927-2668	650 Harry Road
                        	(Fax)927-4002	San Jose, CA 95120
Newsgroups: rec.autos
From: minnebo@probe.acs.oakland.edu (Brian P. Minnebo)
Subject: Re: Plymouth or Oldsmobile?
Summary: not likely
Organization: Oakland University, Rochester MI.
Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1992 17:40:17 GMT

In article <Uf2m9RW00Uh_09=wYI@andrew.cmu.edu> Jason Paul Togyer <jt3y+@andrew.cmu.edu> writes:
>Okay, so here's my question:
>
>Will Chrysler discontinue Plymouth before GM discontinues Oldsmobile?
>
>Notice, first, that there is no Plymouth version of the LH, and second
>that Plymouth now has no model that is not duplicated in another
>Chrysler line.  I get the feeling that Plymouth's days are numbered.
>
>Discussion?

There is not sundance convertable either, or stealth.

Then, dodge has no diamondstar (laser/talon), and no lebaron convertable.

I've never seen a plymouth dealership that wasn't also a chrysler dealership,
The plymouth name is just used for low end cars at chrysler dealerships.

In fact, the only plymouths are voyager, laser, sundance.  Low end versions
of other cars.  And, there not losing money as quickly as Olds.

>--Jason Togyer

Brian
Organization: Masters student, Information Networking Institute, Carnegie Mellon, Pittsburgh, PA
Newsgroups: rec.autos
Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1992 01:42:26 -0500 
From: Jyri Virkki <jyri+@CMU.EDU>
Subject: Re: Raising the limit
 <1992Nov13.175859.4771@news.mentorg.com> 	<Bxonzx.GuJ@news.cso.uiuc.edu> <Uf1IO_G00WB5Jl=lMm@andrew.cmu.edu>
	<1ee4d5INNr1e@armory.centerline.com>

jimf@centerline.com (Jim Frost) writes:
> 
> 
> The new econoboxes are certainly getting better, though, and there
> never was a problem with the midsized cars.  100mph is too high for
> most of the econoboxes though -- many of them can't even maintain
> 85mph.

Well I guess it depends on what cars you classify in the category. But
at least of the cars I've been in and/or driven, I've never seen any
that couldn't maintain a cruising speed of 85mph. And not many would
have trouble maintaining 100mph either. Specifically, I could
guarantee that a 89 Civic DX (automatic, even!) will have no
difficulty keeping 110mph. A 91 323 (base model) will not have any
difficulty maintaining 100mph. Heck, even a base model 86 Civic will
do 90mph for hours. So I'm not exactly sure which are those cars that
cannot cruise at 85mph. Maybe Yugos, never had a chance to drive one
of those :-)


Jyri J. Virkki | DoD#561 | jyri+@cmu.edu | Carnegie Mellon University | MSINI
jyri@[rummat3|rmece02].upr.clu.edu       | Use finger to obtain PGP public key
Newsgroups: rec.autos
From: bobh@troy.cc.bellcore.com (hettmansperger,robert)
Subject: Re: Whining about buying American cars
Organization: Bellcore, Livingston, NJ
Distribution: usa
Date: Fri, 20 Nov 92 14:52:28 GMT

In article <1eh1bvINNmv3@gap.caltech.edu> lxrosser@cco.caltech.edu (Alex Rosser) writes:
>
> One thing that gets me is, if American car companies can build
>cars of comperable quality to imports(and I prefer European to
>Japanese and Japanese to American) why does Saturn have to make
>such a big deal about being an American car company that is building
>cars that are on par with the Japanese quality wise?

Actually, I don't get the impression that Saturn is making such a big deal
about "being American."  By and large it is the press and the consumers that
are making it an issue.  I was *so* happy that they didn't pull the old 
flag waving when they introduced the Saturn.  It would have made them look
desperate.

To me, Saturn is about making a good car for a reasonable amount of money, 
and treating their customers and employees like human beings.  Something I 
support foreign or domestic.  

> For me, what it boils down to is, if I'm paying for a car I'm going to
>buy the best car for my money. I don't give a damn where it's built as 
>long as it's built well. And right now, it seems to me that while the
>quality of American cars is improving it's got miles to go. 

I agree, but I also leave a little flexibility in my buing habits to support
companies that I respect and that I think are acting responsibly and to the
benefit of their employees and customers.  If Saturn's success means bringing
the kinds of changes that I think are important to the auto industry as a
whole, then I will take that into consideration at purchase time.

A few years back, I bought Hondas, because I supported their efforts to make
inexpensive, efficient, reliable cars and felt the new competition would
force the other auto makers to clean up their acts.  Now I have a Saturn, and
to be honest, I feel pretty good about it.  And it doesn't have much to do
with "patriotism" or "buy American".  It has more to do with supporting 
positive change in an Industry that desperately needed it.

-Bob
Newsgroups: rec.autos
From: petebre@elof.iit.edu (Brent A. Peterson)
Subject: Re: NOx, hydrogen, and zero emmissions
Organization: Illinois Institute of Technology, Chicago
Date: Sun, 22 Nov 92 19:51:33 GMT

In article <1en8bnINN7qm@usenet.INS.CWRU.Edu> aas7@po.CWRU.Edu (Andrew A. Spencer) writes:
>
>In a previous article, wilsont@rahul.net (Timothy Wilson) says:
>
>>First off, NOx is produced whenever there is combustion of any sort in 
>>our atmosphere.
>>
>>Emmission control is through the fuel/air ratio. The ratio is so extreme, 
>>( i forget which way) that there is a serious power loss.
>>
>>
>>Zero Emmisions: Its just that... ZERO. a zero emmission vehicle does not 
>>have a tail pipe!
  Not really.... Electric's DO produce emmisons... it just doesn't come
from the car itself... but rather the plant that made the electricity that
it is using. (since nuclear plants have their waste, and besides I don't think
that they will be built to supply a nation of electric cars with power, it will
most likely be good old coal plants, burning cheap and dirty coal.)

    Hydrogen engines will only produce water and NOx, and hopefully there will
soon be a NOx catalayst that works without the presence of hydrocarbons.
>>
>fifteen page paper or no, i do not believe what you are telling me. but that
>is ok, since you obviously are going to disagree with me. So, you can be happy
>with whatever makes you happy, and i'll do the same. H power is still not
>a very viable option in the immediate future, or at least, i do not see it.
>perhaps you do. i think H power is STUPID. there are better and easier 
>and just as Efreindly solutions.  but i know that i would be told that i
>am a dork and stupid, and thus will not "publish" what i think here, aside
>from what i have heard/think i know about H power not being viable..now at
>least.
>DREW

 Actually, a switch to hydrogen would be much easier that electrics.
first, piston engines will require new fuel systems and heads, rotories only
a new fuel system. This is a minimal tooling and desgin change when compared
to eletrics, which change the entire weight balence of the car, requiring
changes to structure, suspension, drive drain, controls, new ways of operating
all the accesories that run on engine vacume (power breaks, power steering, etc)
among other things. actually to make hydrogen work will be best option. 
the major problem with hydrogen is storage and transport. metal hydride storage,
where the H2 is dispressed in the metal's atom lattice until it is realeased by
heat, is as I remember a bit heavy, but does work. The goal is to get a fuel
that has the same energy to weight ratio as gasoline, and as of today nothing
comes close. (except for prehaps some other HC fuels, but they produce other
emissons that there is no way at present to control)
               -Bp
Newsgroups: rec.autos
From: kimnach@lims02.lerc.nasa.gov (GREG KIMNACH)
Subject: Re: Whining about buying American cars
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41    
Organization: NASA Lewis Research Center
Distribution: usa
Date: 19 Nov 1992 09:52 EST  

In article <2179@shaman.wv.tek.com>, andrew@frip.wv.tek.com writes...
>[]
> 
>	"For comparable products I prefer my money to go and put food
>	on some kid from Detroit's table rather than be used somewhere
>	else."
> 
>Let's drag it out into the sunlight.  You'd rather help feed a kid from
>Detroit than a kid from Tsutsumi.  Is this not racism?

No, it's patriotism.

> 
>  -=- Andrew Klossner  (andrew@frip.wv.tek.com)
>                       (uunet!tektronix!frip.WV.TEK!andrew)

Greg
From: aas7@po.CWRU.Edu (Andrew A. Spencer)
Newsgroups: rec.autos
Subject: Re: Stick VS Auto.
Date: 18 Nov 1992 06:10:34 GMT
Organization: Case Western Reserve University, Cleveland, OH (USA)
Reply-To: aas7@po.CWRU.Edu (Andrew A. Spencer)
NNTP-Posting-Host: slc5.ins.cwru.edu




mjarvi@vipunen.hut.fi (Mikko I J{rvi) writes:

>    If a completely normal human doesnt learn how to drive whit stick in
> 15 min. he/she is an IDIOT. So what is the problem in US of A ??
> 
> P.S Am I the only one who is annoyed from the lack of engine brakeing while
>     driveing automatic?

no..but is kinda annoying that when you let up on the gas..they just coast..
and sometimes even feel like they are going on w/o you...that sux!..but it is
easy to get used to..one foot on the gas...one on the brake!!(yes..that is
a joke..DO NOT do this..it is REALLY annoying!!! for those of us driving 
whatevers following you!!)(  :-) for those of us.....)
DREW


-- 
??????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????
??????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????
?????????????????????????????????-----whatever!
From: c23st@kocrsv01.delcoelect.com (Spiros Triantafyllopoulos)
Newsgroups: rec.autos
Subject: Re: Plymouth or Oldsmobile?
Date: 20 Nov 92 13:55:31 GMT
Organization: Delco Electronics Corp.

In article <1992Nov19.214222.14916@noose.ecn.purdue.edu> rjwade@rainbow.ecn.purdue.edu (Robert J. Wade) writes:
>yea, plymouth name sucks.  no one wants to own a *plymouth*.  same with 
>OLDsmobile.  an OLD-car...for OLD-goats.  i think xlyer should dump the 
>plymouth name.  eagle is cool name and mostly cool products(not the premier though).

Gee Robert, 

I guess you've never heard of the Olds Aerotech in the Late 80's... World
Speed record for closed circuit, specially modified quad 4 engine (600 to
800 hp), super-aero, sustained speed on a circle of around 270-280 mph...

Took a 20 year standing Mercedes Benz record down. And that was an Olds
project...

Anyhow. 

Spiros
-- 
Spiros Triantafyllopoulos                    c23st@kocrsv01.delcoelect.com
Software Technology, Delco Electronics       (317) 451-0815
GM Hughes Electronics, Kokomo, IN 46904      [A Different Kind of Disclaimer]
Newsgroups: rec.autos
From: mperlman@nyx.cs.du.edu (Marshal "Airborne" Perlman)
Subject: AUTO TRANS.
Organization: University of Denver, Dept. of Math & Comp. Sci.
Date: Sun, 15 Nov 92 19:11:00 GMT

Got a question:

My now has close to 50K miles on it (heh...only had 30K not long ago, wow),
anyhow, the Auto trans is acting 'strange'. It isn't shifting very smoothly
and sometimes even roughly... is it the transmission it self, or a
computer problem? (It is a GM 3800)...

Should I take it to the dealer or a place like AAMCO?

Thanks.

PLEASE GET BACK TO ME VIA MAIL....

--
|o| Marshal Perlman                             Internet: perlman@cs.fit.edu |o|
|o| Florida Institute of Technology                              IRC: Squawk |o|
|o| Melbourne, Florida                                   Private Pilot, ASEL |o|
|o| 407/768-8000 x8435                            Goodyear Blimp Club Member |o|
From: chapman@centerline.com (Scott Chapman, (Scott Chapman x233))
Newsgroups: rec.autos
Subject: Re: Extended Warranty (3rd party recommendations)
Date: 20 Nov 1992 17:06:22 GMT
Organization: CenterLine Software
Distribution: world
Reply-To: chapman@centerline.com
NNTP-Posting-Host: divine.centerline.com

In my experience I have only found ESP to be useful if you plan to
sell the car after the warranty has expired. When buying a used car
it is nice to know that the is still under *some* kind of warranty

---
                                  |
                    Scott Chapman | chapman@centerline.com
              CenterLine Software | (617) 498-3230
                   10 Fawcett St. | (617) 868-6655 (FAX)
              Cambridge, MA 02138 | (Centerline was formerly Saber Software)
                                  |
From: dbernard@clesun.Central.Sun.COM (Dave Bernard)
Newsgroups: rec.autos
Subject: Re: Street Sleepere
Date: 20 Nov 92 17:19:22 GMT
Reply-To: dbernard@clesun.Central.Sun.COM
Organization: Sun Microsystems

In article 6476@gw.wmich.edu, 854mesik@gw.wmich.edu () writes:
>
>
>	Everyone is writing about how an SHO Tauras wagon
>would be great. It would be cool, but how about this?
>1992 300 hp LT-1 350 in a Caprice Wagon? It would be a sure
>headturner to see that leave you behind in a puff of smoke eh?
>
>					-Steve
>  ** Rear Wheel Drive = More fun **



Is such a beast really available?  ANy magazine road tests on it?
From: kevinh@hslrswi.hasler.ascom.ch (kevinh)
Subject: Re: Cadillacs (WAS: INFFINITI vs BMW)
Originator: kevinh@nath
Reply-To: kevinh@hslrswi.hasler.ascom.ch
Organization: Ascom Hasler AG
Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1992 09:26:57 GMT


In article <Bxy87p.I2A@news.cso.uiuc.edu>, cka52397@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (Slartibartfast) writes:
|> 	The Caddy.  295hp 21mpg hwy 150mph top end and ragtop all for <$64K
|> according to MT.  And, please, can we start comparing cars that have 
|> Try the Allante vs. MB300SL or JagXJ-S cabriolet.  (BTW, C/D tried this, and,
|> much to their surprise, the Caddy won) 

CAR (J.K. Setright) did a sort of test of the Northstar equipped Allante, his closing
sentence was something like "on the face of it the Allante competes with the Jag XJS
and the Mercedes 300SL, on reflection it does nothing of the sort!". He was not
exactly enamoured of the car in the rest of the article either.

kevinh@hasler.ascom.ch
Newsgroups: rec.autos
From: basiji@stein.u.washington.edu (David Basiji)
Subject: Re: My new Saturn in the shop for new transmission
Keywords: Saturn reliability
Organization: University of Washington
Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1992 16:05:28 GMT


Even the very best cars from the very best manufacturers _will_ be subject
to defects and breakdowns; it's simple statistics.  What is most important
is not *whether* the cars will break down but how the company/dealer deals
with the situation *when* it happens.  Saturn seems to understand this.
Ford seems to be having a little trouble with the concept.  I believe that
this is one of the reasons "exclusive" brands can demand the prices they
do...people will pay for the peace of mind that they will be well-treated
by the people they depend on to keep the car running well.

David Basiji
From: dunster@sdsu.edu (mark dunster)
Newsgroups: rec.autos,rec.audio.car
Subject: Re: interest in car alarm group?
Date: 20 Nov 1992 20:04:11 GMT
Organization: sdsu
Distribution: world
NNTP-Posting-Host: mathfp11.sdsu.edu

In article <RSLAU.92Nov19204032@tarazed.usc.edu>, rslau@usc.edu 
(Robert Lau) writes:
> 
> In article <1e73p9INNj1g@athena.sdsu.edu> dunster@sdsu.edu (mark dunster) writes:
> 
> >  In the U.S. VW Jettas are number two in the hit parade for car break-ins
> >  and thefts (VW cars make up 7 of the top 10).
> 
> Uh, where did you pull this statistic from?  Top-ten lists are valid
> only on a county-by-county basis, the 100th car on a nationwide survey
> may be the #1 in your neighborhood, and vice versa.
> 
> Also, 7 in the top 10?  Let's see, VW has the: Jetta, Golf/Rabbit,
> Scirocco, Corrado, Fox, Squareback/Fastback, Beetle, Thing,
> Quantum/Passat, Bus/Vanagon
> 
> I seriously doubt 7 of these are in the top 10 in any area...

>From Highway Loss Data Institute, 1987-89 passenger cars with
highest theft-claim frequencies (in the United States):

1.  VW GTI
2.  VW Jetta, 4-DR
3.  VW Scirocco
4.  VW Jetta, 2-Dr
5.  VW Golf, 2-Dr
6.  VW Golf, 4-Dr
7.  VW Cabriolet
8.  Hyundai Excel, 4-Dr
9.  Cadillac deVille, 2-Dr
10. VW Fox, 4-Dr


> 
> > This is because they are notoriously easy to break-into/steal.
> 
> They've changed the lock mechanism in the Passat/Corrado and in the A3
> Golf/Jetta/Vento.  And it can't be easier than pulling the whole
> lock/handle assembly off any Honda...

True. (And about bloody time!!!) The theft figures for 1993 could well 
be different.

> 
> Then again, Mark is in San Diego where anything that runs and isn't
> bolted down is stolen (and driven up to LA and dumped)
                                           ^^^^^^^^^^^^^ (or Mexico)

True! Moreover, I'm a prof at San Diego State University, which is
the #1 campus in the U.S. for car thefts/breakins!!!! (Twice as
many as the next highest campus).  :^(
From: hhtra@usho21.hou281.chevron.com (T.M.Haddock)
Newsgroups: rec.autos
Subject: Re: FLAME! Only a Manual!
Date: 16 Nov 92 18:39:58 GMT
Organization: Chevron

In article <83559@ut-emx.uucp>, klin@ccwf.cc.utexas.edu (Y. Kevin Lin) writes:
|> hhtra@usho72.hou281.chevron.com (T.M.Haddock) writes:
|> >
|> >|> asr_2@dac.mdcbbs.com writes:
|> >|> 
|> >|> ...lets say your in the middle of no place and get into a wreck.
|> >|> Then lets say your car (auto) is flipped but the other car (manual trany)
|> >|> is good to go, and the other driver is near death...
|> >
|> >  ... what if the pilot was hit in the left leg and right arm
|> >  and the navigator was hit in the right leg and left arm and 
|> >  the control switch was in the middle of the panel and the 
|> >  aircraft was in a 30 deg per second roll and an enemy fighter
|> >  had missile lock on and just then a bird-strike shatters the
|> >  canopy... 
|> > 
|> 
|> How about this:
|> Johnny lives in Boresville, OK where no one can get anywhere without a
|> car.  (This is not NYC where you can get a cab three o'clock in the
|> morning.)  Friday night Johnny's buddies Billy and Mike pick him up
|> and the three of them ended up at Moe's Bar.  By the time Moe is kicking
|> everyone out of the bar, Johnny is the only one sober enough to legally
|> drive.  Needless to say, Billy's car is a five speed and Johnny never
|> had learned how to drive one.  So now what do we do?  Sure we can have
|> Billy drive his own car while intoxicated but he might make the local
|> front page next morning.  Or the three of them can hang out the sidewalk
|> all night.  

 What a perfect time for Johnny to learn to drive a stick.  He has 
 access to a car that he doesn't have to worry about breaking, a buddy 
 who is in no condition to argue, and there is ample motivation - drive
 or "hang out" on "the sidewalk all night."


 I apologise if my attempt to interject some comic relief into this flame
 war failed.  I thought my orginal post was facetious enought that smiley
 faces were not required.  No good deed goes unpunished.
 
 :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :)

 TRAVIS
Xref: sparky rec.autos:27373 rec.audio.car:4978
From: rslau@usc.edu (Robert Lau)
Newsgroups: rec.autos,rec.audio.car
Subject: Re: interest in car alarm group?
Date: 19 Nov 1992 20:40:40 -0800
Organization: University of Southern California, USA
	<1992Nov12.084917.3596@spectrum.xerox.com>
	<1e73p9INNj1g@athena.sdsu.edu>
NNTP-Posting-Host: tarazed.usc.edu
In-reply-to: dunster@sdsu.edu's message of 16 Nov 92 03:15:53 GMT

In article <1e73p9INNj1g@athena.sdsu.edu> dunster@sdsu.edu (mark dunster) writes:

>  In the U.S. VW Jettas are number two in the hit parade for car break-ins
>  and thefts (VW cars make up 7 of the top 10).

Uh, where did you pull this statistic from?  Top-ten lists are valid
only on a county-by-county basis, the 100th car on a nationwide survey
may be the #1 in your neighborhood, and vice versa.

Also, 7 in the top 10?  Let's see, VW has the: Jetta, Golf/Rabbit,
Scirocco, Corrado, Fox, Squareback/Fastback, Beetle, Thing,
Quantum/Passat, Bus/Vanagon

I seriously doubt 7 of these are in the top 10 in any area...

> This is because they are notoriously easy to break-into/steal.

They've changed the lock mechanism in the Passat/Corrado and in the A3
Golf/Jetta/Vento.  And it can't be easier than pulling the whole
lock/handle assembly off any Honda...

Then again, Mark is in San Diego where anything that runs and isn't
bolted down is stolen (and driven up to LA and dumped)

-- 
Robert Lau - Systems Programmer, Unix Systems     213-740-2866
--  University Computing Services                 Internet: rslau@usc.edu
--  University of Southern California             Bitnet:   rslau@uscvm
--  1020 W Jefferson, LA, CA  USA, 90089-0251     UUCP:     ...!uunet!usc!rslau