HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
Organization: The American University - University Computing Center
Date: Thu, 10 Sep 1992 13:09:27 EDT
From: <CARIAN@auvm.american.edu>
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
Subject: Re: Kashruth of wine
 <18m4nfINN4ik@agate.berkeley.edu> <BuDB4v.H3E@mentor.cc.purdue.edu>
 <18nqfkINNcvr@agate.berkeley.edu>

The issue of Conservative Judaism and wine has been widely misunderstood.

The original tshuvah of Rabbi Isaac Klein z'tzl was based on two facts,
which he checked out objectively and which were true *at the time the
tshuvah was written*:

1. The wine was machine-made and no human hand ever came into contact with it,
so it wasn't "wine which had been touched" or even produced by a Gentile. It
was produced by a machine and machines aren't Jewish or Gentile.

2. Wine produced in the States was generally pasteurized so it was also
considered "yayin mevushal" which, subsequent to production, may be
handled by Gentiles and still remain kosher.

The original heter applied to *US-made wines only*, NOT to imported wines.

A subsequent tshuvah of Rabbi Elliot Dorff reconsidered the question.
He discovered enough changes in wine manufacturing since Rabbi Klein's
tshuvah as to call into question the previous heter. First of all,
today there are lots of smaller wineries which do not produce their
wines in as mechanized a fashion as the large wineries like Gallo or
Xian Brothers.

Secondly, a lot of wineries use non-kosher "fining" (clarifying) agents
which were once thought to be thoroughly removed from the wine. (For
hundreds of years rabbis have permitted non-kosher fining agents for
exactly this reason.) Lab tests indicate that this isn't so and elements
of the fining agents remain in the wine and are not nullified because
"ain mevatlin issur le-hatchila" (one can't intentionally add materials
and then have them nullified."

Rabbi Dorff's position, excepted by the Law Committee, is that use of
non-certified wines is to be strongly discouraged. Nevertheless since
many many people who otherwise observe kashrut are in the habit of
drinking non-certified wines and it is a custom which has become
widespread, people who persist in drinking them should not be considered
as people who do not keep kosher.

Before attacking this reasoning remember that it is the same reasoning
why most Orthodox authorities will not rule that smoking is forbidden
by halacha. It should be forbidden, but since many otherwise observant
people do smoke and we don't want to label them sinners we can't
ban smoking.

Anyway, I do hope that Conservative Jews who take the time to study
the situation will reconsider their use of non-certified wines.

Rabbi Charles Arian
CARIAN@american.edu
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
From: haber@shark.mel.dit.CSIRO.AU (Yaacov Haber)
Subject: Otzar Haposkim
Organization: CSIRO, Division of Information Technology, Melbourne
Date: Sun, 6 Sep 92 05:12:40 GMT


A few weeks ago there was a post regarding a Responsa database in Jerusalem
that would be available via Internet acsess. This was put together by 
Otzar Haposkim. Since then I haven't heard anything. Does any one have
any information about this. BTW this has NOTHING to do with the responsa
project at Bar Ilan available on CD Rom.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Rabbi Yaacov Haber, Director                   Home: 206 Orrong Rd.            
Australia Institute for Torah                  Caulfield, Victoria 3161
362a Carlisle St                               Australia
Balaclava, Victoria 3183                       phone:(613) 527-2480 
Australia                                      16 hours ahead of New York
phone: (613) 527-6156                         
fax:   (613) 527-8034                          Internet:haber@mel.dit.csiro.au
                                                       uucp: uunet!ajop!yhaber
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
From: warren@nysernet.org (Warren Burstein)
Subject: Re: Not a Charm?
Reply-To: warren@nysernet.org
Organization: Mail to News Gateway at Wang Labs
Date: 9 Sep 92 06:18:42 GMT

In <1852@ceylon.gte.com> sg04@ploni.gte.com (Yechezkal Shimon Gutfreund) writes:

>I wonder where an individual gets the chutzpah to pass judgement on
>a minhag accepted by k'lal yisroel for generations. And who
>has the right to pass judgement on righteous of this and previous
>generations who keep this mihag.

Sigh.  I didn't think that the posting was suggesting that once you
read it, if you kissed a mezuzah that you were chayyav sekilah, and so
were all of your ancestors retroactively.  Agree or not with the idea
that since maybe some people are confused as to the significance of
the mezuzah it might be worthwhile to not kiss them as an educational
tool, but I hardly think this reaction is called for.

I'm sure that most of the Jews didn't use the nachash hanechoshet as
an idol either, maybe there was a group of people who thought it
would be insulting to Moshe to melt it down because of the actions of
a few idolators who would worship something else if we took away this
one. 

But the poster didn't call for people to throw away their mezuzot -
just to remember what they're there for.  Myself, I don't kiss
mezuzot, but I try to remember to take notice of them.  I suppose that
I could train myself to automatically put my hand up, but then I'd
have to try to remember to take notice of what I was doing by habit.

This is the second posting I've answered today that strikes me to be,
well perhaps indicative of the need to suggest that while we're each
doing our own Teshuvah, and perhaps this makes us less tolerant of the
mistakes each of us has individually made since last year, it might
not be benificial to anyone to extend this praiseworthy increased
rigor to our evaluations of others.

I hope this is not taken as a criticism of Teshuvah.
-- 
/|/-\/-\       Amar Rav Nachman Bar Yitzchak:
 |__/__/_/     "P'amim sheadam ba b'sharav
 |warren@      v'rochetz afilu b'mai mishrah"
/ nysernet.org 			Jerusalem
From: saal@cbnewsl.cb.att.com (samuel.saal)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
Subject: Re: Bingo
Date: 15 Sep 92 20:21:52 GMT
Organization: liver ---> spleen

In article <1992Sep15.170144.23158@cs.tulane.edu> js@cs.tulane.edu (Jan
Silbermann) writes:

>  It seems that the use of Bingo is quite widespread in shuls and
> dayschools.  Does anyone else find this problematic at best, or
> very wrong at worst?  What can shuls do to replace such a lucrative
> fund-raiser?

My parents' shul had a Bingo fundraiser for a few years.  For one night
a week they rented a Bingo hall in a nearby town and members staffed
it.  The shul stopped when it became too difficult to attract members
to help out.  It was in a dingy, smokey hall and I suspect members felt
themselves to be in a different class than the players which made it
difficult for them to deign to help out.
-- 
Sam Saal      kingfish!saal OR saal@kingfish.att.com
	Vayiftach HaShem et Peah Ha`Aton
Xref: sparky soc.culture.jewish:15787 soc.culture.polish:2585
From: roman@sparc17.hri.com (Roman Budzianowski)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish,soc.culture.polish
Subject: Re: Auschvitz and $$$ & The Ontario Press Council
Date: 11 Sep 92 20:23:30 GMT
Reply-To: roman@sparc17.hri.com (Roman Budzianowski)
Followup-To: soc.culture.jewish
Organization: Horizon Research

> >>If you feel that Poles didn't do enough - that is your right. But don't
> >>bring example of Denmark and similar countries - it's ridiculous.
> 
> >Up until this line, I wouldn't have argued; I would have respected your
> >right to a different opinion no matter how much I disagreed.  But with

You didn't say what you disagreed with in my posting. I asked how many
Danes lost their lives when saving Jews, and how many Poles. Is this the
"opinion" you disagree with ?

> >this statement you again attempt to call Poland the real victim, a typical
> >revisionistic tactic.  Either that or you have so little respect for
> >Poland that you are saying we shouldn't expect it to measure up to
> >countries like Norway or Bulgaria for whatever litany of reasons.

> >Sam Saal      kingfish!saal OR saal@kingfish.att.com
> >	Vayiftach HaShem et Peah Ha`Aton

In what way Poland should measure up to Norway or Bulgaria. Bulgaria
took part in the WWII on the side of Germany. Norway collaborated with
Germany. Maybe if not for countries like Bulgaria and Norway, Hitler
wouldn't have the opportunity for the "final solution" ?
From: ehrlich@bimacs.BITNET (Gideon Ehrlich)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
Subject: Re: A few questions
Date: 10 Sep 92 11:58:04 GMT
Organization: Math department, Bar-Ilan University, Ramat-Gan, ISRAEL

In article <mBsqqB1w165w@valpso.hanse.de> tichauer@valpso.hanse.de
(Manfredo Tichauer) writes:

>ehrlich@bimacs.BITNET (Gideon Ehrlich) writes:
>
>> >There is not a similar circumcision ceremony for girls.
>> All those operations done to baby girls are forbidden.
>> ( The Falasha - now known as "Ethiopian Jews" - did it up to ~100
>> years ago, Africans do a very cruel version of that , If you don't
>> know what they actually do than you should know it is much cruel then
>> the most you may imagine, Moslims in Israel do a very mild version of
>> that, Beduins do some more , but not very, drastic version of that).
>
>(Manfredo Tichauer):
>  In plain words, the clitoris is extirpated (without anesthesia) as
>  soon as the girls get in age to marry (~12 years old)

O.k. Manfredo , you prove the above! the actual african operation is
much cruel than that. Some tribes cut the lips, and saw the whole
wounded area , just a smal hole is left in order the urine will have a
way out. On marrige the hasband use a knife in order to be able act.


>> As to jesus, Some christians believed he has no sexual organs at all,
>> since they were useless for him. There was even a long bloody war
>> about this theological question. So I don't think all christians agree
>> that jesus was circumcised.

Among the Ethiopian church the testes of their monks are cutted.  ( I
hope I am using no too rough words - in place of the correct idiom I
dont know ). The same operation was done in Europ in order that kid
singers at churches , and may be elsewhere will not loose their soprano)

>  Christian religions (at least Catholics and Protestants) recognize that
>  Jesus was circumsized ( although almost no christians know it): for the
>  catholic world the official name of the   1st.January   is
>                                            ^^^^^^^^^^^
>
>                THE DAY OF THE CIRCUMCISION OF THE LORD
>
>  You can read it in ANY south american calendar or agenda where the names
>  of the saints that correspond to a specific date are written.
>
>  Jesus official birth date is the night of 24/25.December) and 1st.January
>  (christian new year) is 8 days later (a Jewish born male should be cir-
>  cumcised at the 8th day). Ask any of your christians friends and you'll
>  be astonished to see how few (if any) know it.
>
>
>
> -----------------------------------------------------------------------------
>  Manfredo Tichauer M.                       EMAIL : tichauer@valpso.hanse.de
>  Opitzstrasse 14                            VOICE :     (++ 49 40)  27.42.27
>  2000 Hamburg 60 - GERMANY                  FAX   :     (++ 49 40) 270.53.09
> -----------------------------------------------------------------------------


Xref: sparky soc.culture.jewish:15518 soc.culture.polish:2433
From: lbs@madeira.phys.ufl.edu (Lech Borkowski)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish,soc.culture.polish
Subject: Re: Nazi camps
Date: 8 Sep 92 05:17:54 GMT
Followup-To: soc.culture.jewish
Organization: University of Florida Physics Department - CMT Group

In article <1992Sep4.130418.1316@cbnewsl.cb.att.com> sethr@cbnewsl.cb.att.com (seth.r.rosenthal) writes:
>Anyway, in Martin Gilbert's book Holocaust, he describes
>the Warsaw uprising by the Poles against the Germans.  About
>1000 Jews who were hiding in Aryan Warsaw came out of hiding
			      ^^^^^

 Please, don't use "Aryan Warsaw", it makes me sick.

 Sounds like someone here tries to convince me that the Nazi
ideology was conceived in Poland. 

>to fight side by side with their countrymen.  About 500 died.
>250 of these were executed by the Polish resistance, not the
>Germans.
>		Seth Rosenthal

 This is very interesting. I would like to have more details
on this one. Also, what other sources say the same thing.
Note, I am not saying this is not true. I would like
to study what is available about it. 

 I am not sure what kind of expert M. Gilbert is on the uprising
in Warsaw. I am sure a crime of such proportions would not go
unnoticed in other sources. Can we have a thorough check on this
point?

 I will do what I can to verify this statement and will try to post
the results of the search on the net.

 Lech Borkowski
 
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
From: warren@nysernet.org (Warren Burstein)
Subject: Re: On the SUPERIOR Role of Women
Reply-To: warren@nysernet.org
Organization: Mail to News Gateway at Wang Labs
Date: 6 Sep 92 00:42:24 GMT

In <ALLEN.92Sep4104742@golem.ssc.gov> allen@golem.ssc.gov (Michael Allen) writes:

    But I think it is better to start from reasons and work
    toward the conclusions, rather than bash the conclusions and then make
    of reasons to justify your actions.

It may be that the motivations of the other authors is more
complicated than this.  Just might.
-- 
/|/-\/-\       Amar Rav Nachman Bar Yitzchak:
 |__/__/_/     "P'amim sheadam ba b'sharav
 |warren@      v'rochetz afilu b'mai mishrah"
/ nysernet.org 			Jerusalem
Xref: sparky soc.culture.jewish:15620 soc.culture.polish:2492
From: lbs@madeira.phys.ufl.edu (Lech Borkowski)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish,soc.culture.polish
Subject: Re: Nazi camps
Date: 9 Sep 92 18:15:38 GMT
Followup-To: soc.culture.jewish
Organization: University of Florida Physics Department - CMT Group

In article <1992Sep8.135201.29037@cbnewsl.cb.att.com> sethr@cbnewsl.cb.att.com (seth.r.rosenthal) writes:

>I think in the 20th century you found a more tolerant attitude
>among the Polish middle classes, and a more anti-semitic attitude
>among the rural community.  This is due to the historical
>economic and social positioning of Jews in Polish society
>as well as their religious and social differences.

 In one of the prewious posts someone pointed out that 
the Catholic Church in Poland was perhaps the main culprit
in cultivating anti-semitism (whether openly or implicitly).
I agree with it. Of course, the clergy is a collection 
of individuals who also have quite varying views. But I agree
in general that the Church in Poland contributed very little
(to put it mildly) towards reducing the anti-semitism 
in Poland. It is not difficult to notice that the people
in politics in Poland who were openly anti-semitic before
WW II were mainly associated with right-wing parties with
strong nationalistic tendencies and close ties to the Church.
 
>		Seth Rosenthal

 Lech Borkowski
From: dic5340@hertz.njit.edu (David Charlap)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
Subject: Re: Conservative Halacha (was re: Orthodox Monopoly)
Date: 10 Sep 92 18:22:50 GMT
Organization: New Jersey Institute of Technology, Newark, N.J.

In article <FAIGIN.92Sep10072948@soldan.aero.org> faigin@aero.org (Daniel P. Faigin) writes:
>
>Reform only presumes the child to
>be Jewish; actual "Jewish" status depends on appropriate public identification
>and acts, such as Bar/Bat Mitzvah, Confirmation, etc. This is stricter than
>the Orthodox position.

So if a parent neglects his child's Jewish upbringing, reform will
consider him to be just as non-Jewish as the Southern Baptist living
around the block.

What a strange religion.


-- 
   |)  David Charlap           "LECTURER, n.  One with his hand in your pocket,
  /|_  dic5340@hertz.njit.edu   his tongue in your ear, and his faith in your
 ((|,)                          patience."
  ~|~                              --- Ambrose Bierce, The Devil's Dictionary
From: rothberg@bimacs.BITNET (Danny Rothenberg)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
Subject: Re: Jews in space.
Date: 14 Sep 92 12:25:11 GMT
Organization: Math department, Bar-Ilan University, Ramat-Gan, ISRAEL

In article <1961@ceylon.gte.com> sgutfreund@gte.com writes:
>In article <1992Sep10.144514.25461@alchemy.chem.utoronto.ca>, jgoldber@todah.chem.utoronto.ca (Joel Goldberg) writes:
>|>   Before Judith Resnick (A"H) went on her first flight, the Chief
>|>   Rabbinate of Israel issued a ruling that there is no shabbat in space.
>
>I would be interested in knowing the basis on which
>they came to that decision (and if it was both chief Rabbis).
>
>I am familiar with R. Goren's reasoning that was given
>many years earlier on this subject.

Quoting my cousins (Religious Zionists :-> ):
They had heard (I cannot remember where from) that the simple answer
is that there are simply some places where JEWS are just not meant to
be.

After all, according to many, if not all, halachic authorities, the
very fact that mitzvot are kept at all outside the Land of Israel is
just so that we do not forget them on our Return.  As well as that,
2/3 of the mitzvot, eg agricultural, can ONLY be kept in the Land of
Israel.

>
>-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
>Yechezkal Shimon Gutfreund                               sgutfreund@gte.com
>GTE Laboratories, Waltham MA                       harvard!bunny!sgutfreund
>-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=


--
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Danny Rothenberg            |    ^     Ellul is here, so:  (I also forgive
Bitnet:                     | \-/-\-/   "Repent now!        everybody)
rothberg@bimacs             |  X   X     Avoid the Yom Kippur rush!"
Internet:                   | /-\-/-\      -Nero (aka Harry Blacker)
rothberg@imacs.cs.biu.ac.il |    V    Ketivah VeChatimah Tovah-Shanah Tovah
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
From: davef@cs.ubc.ca (David Finkelstein)
Subject: Re: Kashruth of wine
Keywords: Yein Nesech, Stam Yeinam
Organization: Computer Science, University of B.C., Vancouver, B.C., Canada
Date: Thu, 10 Sep 92 21:17:59 GMT

In article <1992Sep10.170002.18503@cc.gatech.edu> amir@leopard.gatech.edu (amir) writes:
>There are two concepts relating to wine:
>	1. Yein Nesech.
>	2. Stam Yeinam.
>
>Yein Nesech is wine that was used for Avodah Zara. An example today
>would be (according to the Rambam) wine used in church rites. This is
>forbidden from the Torah (see last week's Parasha). 
>

Uh-oh, a lot of churches like to use "fortified concord grape wine"
for communion.  You know, like the wine found in those bottles with
the guy wearing the talit on the label.

I guess taste isn't the only reason to buy wines from the Gan Eden or
Hagafen wineries... :-)

--
---------------------------------------------------------------------
David Finkelstein               |"Nothing comes out of the faucet
University of British Columbia  | but strawberry jelly.  I guess 
davef@cs.ubc.ca                 | that's how rich millionaires live."
From: js@cs.tulane.edu (Jan Silbermann)
Subject: Re: Kohanim & Converts
Nntp-Posting-Host-[nntpd-29539]: caesar
Organization: Computer Science Dept., Tulane Univ., New Orleans, LA
Date: Mon, 7 Sep 1992 16:06:26 GMT

>Silbermann) says:
>>
>> Can a Kohen marry the daughter of a convert if the daughter
>>   was born (but not conceived) after the mother's conversion?
>>   If the answer is no but they marry anyway,
>>   are their sons regarded as Kohenim?
>>   Would they be Halachicly obligated to divorce?

In article <92251.133118P85014@BARILVM.BITNET> Anthony Waller <P85014@BARILVM.BITNET> writes:
>      Don't know for sure.  I would guess that the child is still considered
>     Jewish even if mother had not converted at time of conception.
>     If the answer is no, and the daughter herself has to convert, ....

I'm pretty sure that the majority opinion is that the daughter
is considered Jewish, and does not need to convert.
The question is whether she is forbidden to a Kohen _anyway_
(and whether they would have to divorce, etc.)

       js@cs.tulane.edu
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish,soc.culture.polish
From: aleks@cray.com (Aleksander Mazur)
Subject: Re: Violent antisemitism?
Date: 8 Sep 92 08:14:22 CDT


In article <dobo.715880778@swalwell> dobo@cs.UAlberta.CA (W. Dobosiewicz) writes:
>
>I do not think Maciek can, because I think his numbers are wrong. My data
>show that the total number of "repatriated" people was 1.1 million, which
>makes the 600000 extremely suspicious. Secondly, the number of Jews around
>1800 was already of the order of 7-10 percent in the area roughly similar
>to prewar Poland.
>After 1921 the balance was negative (more Jews leaving than coming) for
>every year until 1939. But only around 10000 per year, 1935 excepted
>(30000 that year). Surprisingly, a few hundred people came back to Poland
>from "Palestine"; their religion was not recorded, but is easy to guess.
>
>W. Dobosiewicz
>

I think that W. Dobosiewicz does not have precise data. Recently he did
not notice immigration of Jews from Germany just before WWII. The same
seems to be in place regarding number of Jewish students in prewar
Poland, even percentage of Jewish population in 30's. How could that
happen to somebody who owns Polish prewar Yearbook ? Very interesting
indeed.

A. Mazur
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
From: friedenb@ruby.egr.msu.edu (Gedaliah Friedenberg)
Subject: MOVIE:  School Ties
Reply-To: friedenb@ruby.egr.msu.edu (Gedaliah Friedenberg)
Organization: College of Engineering, Michigan State University
Date: Thu, 10 Sep 92 15:01:26 GMT


Last night I saw a promotional advertisement for a new movie to be released
soon in the US. It is called 'School Ties.'  

This is what I learned from the promo:  A University (or High School Prep)
student is an outstanding athlete, student leader, good student, 
and good looking.  He is "found out" to be Jewish, and is deluged by
anti-Semitism.  The commercial shows him being beaten-up, and another
scene shows graffitti in his dorm room with a swastika and the words 
'Damn Jew, Go Home' (or something close to that).

Anyone heard anything of this movie?


P.S. I just found out that I am going to Israel to study in Yeshiva
over winter vacation (Dec. 23 - Jan 11) in Jerusalem.  I'd like to 
meet and SCJ readers who may be there at the time.  Send me mail!

 
Gedaliah Friedenberg
-=-Department of Mechanical Engineering
-=-Department of Metallurgy, Mechanics and Materials Science
-=-Michigan State University