HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: warwick@wikkit.enet.dec.com
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.tech
Subject: Re: Biopace Chainrings
Date: 1 Sep 92 17:34:41 GMT
Reply-To: warwick@wikkit.enet.dec.com ()
Organization: Digital Equipment Corporation


I would also disagree with one of the original responses to this
question which said something like "Biopace is dead".

A reasonable number of both road and mountain bikes built in the 
UK still come equipped with Biopace rings. Both my Raleigh road
bikes have had them (one low-mid range bike, one mid-top range
bike). My parents both have reasonably top of range Raleigh 
touring bikes, and both came with Biopace triples. I know that Dawes
also use them on a lot of their models.

I'm not an experienced enough rider to be able to comment on the
differences between Biopace and round rings. The most annoying
thing about them from my point of view is that they are available
in a very limited number of sizes. I have only been able to find
52 or 42 tooth rings sold individually. 40s do exist, but seem to be 
unobtainable as spares.

So, Biopace is very much alive in certain parts of the market.


Trevor Warwick
-------------
Telecommunications and Networks Engineering,
Digital Equipment Corporation, Reading, England.
Internet: warwick@marvin.enet.dec.com
From: pfaffman@pilot.njin.net (Jay Pfaffman)
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.tech
Subject: Re: top five innovations
Date: 26 Aug 92 21:13:02 GMT
Organization: Rutgers Univ., New Brunswick, N.J.

harry@cv.hp.com (Harry Phinney) writes:

>davis@ee.rochester.edu (Al Davis) writes:
>: ** Biopace **
>: It was on this innovation that Suntour, SR, Sugino, etc. publicly admitted
>: that Shimano is #1, by blindly copying it.

>I disagree.  Suntour, et al admitted that Shimano had convinced the
>market that Biopace was good and even necessary.  Consumers were, at the

Until this weekend, it'd been 2 years since I'd looked at a biking
catalog or magazine.  When I bought my bike (5 Years ago?) Biopace was
ubiquitous, now it seems to be non-existant.  What's the deal?

I remember reading about elliptical chainrings 15 years ago.  The
article was very positive & the example shown was drasticly
elliptical, much more so than my bio-pace.  

Allegedly they were "computer designed" & had stuff to back up their
benefits, but I guess there have been new studies. . .
-- 
Jay Pfaffman, Computer Coordinator        pfaffman@pilot.njin.net
Dwight-Englewood School, 315 E. Palisade Ave.                      
Englewood, NJ  07631-0489                 201-569-9500
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.tech
From: skon@cis.ohio-state.edu (james paul skon)
Subject: Grades of brake cables
Originator: skon@gecko.cis.ohio-state.edu
Organization: The Ohio State University, Department of Computer and Information Science
Date: Wed, 26 Aug 1992 03:44:13 GMT

From: skon@cis.ohio-state.edu (james paul skon)
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.tech
Subject: Grades of brake cables
Summary: 
Followup-To: 
Distribution: world
Organization: The Ohio State University, Department of Computer and Information Science
Keywords: Brakes, Cables

While in the process of updating my aging touring bike, I replaced the old
brake levers with Dia-Compe "Aero" levers, which route the cables under the 
handlebar tape.  I had to buy new cables, as the new routing requires 
more length.

I thus visited the local shop expecting to buy the housing by the foot.  They
brought out a set of prepackaged cables, which included both the cable and the
housing, and claimed this would work fine.  As the price was $1.50 each, I was 
skeptical, but they assured my that these would work great, and save me money.

So I put them on the bike, routing them exactly as on my new Cannondale road
bike.  The cables move fairly stiffly, and the braking power is reduced.  
I did lubricate the cables prior to assembly.

The question is this - is this because these are cheap cables?  Aero routing 
does require more sharp turns to follow the bars, so perhaps the quality 
of the cables is more important.  If I do change cables, any recommendations?

Thanks for any help!
Jim Skon
skon@cis.ohio-state.edu

Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.tech
From: choy@skorpio.usask.ca (I am a terminator.)
Subject: Re: MTB:  How to not trash the rear derailleur?
Organization: University of Saskatchewan, Saskatoon, Canada
Date: Wed, 2 Sep 1992 21:16:59 GMT

In article <Btwr92.7Cq@watserv1.uwaterloo.ca>, praetzel@marconi.uwaterloo.ca (Eric Praetzel) writes:
|> In article <87570@netnews.upenn.edu> vinson@shiva.seas.upenn.edu (Jack Vinson) writes:

|> >I seem to be pretty good a trashing rear derailleurs on my MTB.  As of
|>   Can you be more specific?  Are you shifting into the spokes?  What is
|> causing the derailleur to die?

I've also gone through
|> >several freewheels - by the way I am running Shimano derailleurs with a
|> >Suntour freewheel, but this may change when I replace my rear wheel.
|>   How?  Were you breaking teeth off?  This tends to happen on cheap freewheels
|> that are put thru a lot of mud, high torque and indecisive shifting.

 If you ride hardpack (no mud) and avoid all
|> object that have a high density (trees, rocks ..) then a MTB can last well if
|> its cleaned every now and then.  Otherwise the sand will take appart every
|> bit of the drivetrain.

I've been told that XTR components are tough. Any experiences to share?
What are good ways to clean a chain and gears while keeping it on the bike?

Henry Choy
choy@cs.usask.ca
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.tech
From: harry@cv.hp.com (Harry Phinney)
Subject: Re: Summ. of Frame Materials for Review
Organization: Hewlett-Packard Company, Corvallis, Oregon USA
X-Newsreader: Tin 1.1 PL4
Date: Sat, 29 Aug 1992 20:54:38 GMT

tomk@netcom.com (Thomas H. Kunich) writes:
: This would appear to mean that all these TSX tubing frames are
: just so much hog wash. SL or SLX should be identically ridgid.

Indeed, an SL frame will most certainly be more rigid than a 753,
Prestige Ultra Light, or EL (not oversize) frame of the same geometry.
An SP frame will be stiffer than an SL frame.  A bike built from seamed
mild steel tubing of the same OD but heavier walls will be even stiffer.
Steel is steel as far as stiffness is concerned.  TSX, SLX, Genius, and
Tange Concept tubes have uneven wall thicknesses, which in some of these
tube sets will result in anisotropic stiffness, and in any case will
affect their specific stiffness (i.e. the stiffness to weight ratio).

Harry Phinney   harry@hp-pcd.cv.hp.com
From: ph@physiology.oxford.ac.uk (Patrick Haggard)
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.tech
Subject: Knackered bottom bracket thread
Date: 4 Sep 92 18:22:24 GMT
Organization: Physiology Department, Oxford University, Oxford, UK.
Originator: ph@galen.physiol


I have stripped the thread on the bottom bracket that the fixed cup
screws into.  As a result the fixed cup is hanging loose, and the 
axle is wobbly.  Can anyone suggest how I might get the thread
rethreaded?
Cheers
------------------------------------------------------------

Patrick Haggard,
Oxford University Laboratory of Physiology,
Parks Road,
Oxford,
OX1 3PT
England

Tel. (0865) 272116
Fax. (0865) 272469
Email (JANET): ph@uk.ac.ox.physiol
------------------------------------------------------------
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.tech
From: jjb@dtc.hp.com (Jim Brewer)
Subject: Re: Respacing rear dropouts
Date: Wed, 26 Aug 1992 23:23:36 GMT
Organization: HP Design Technology Center, Santa Clara, CA

In article <1992Aug25.185732.26064@shearson.com> mjohnsto@jenny.shearson.com (Mike Johnston) writes:

>if I'm wrong, I need 130mm spacing for the 8speed STI setup. How much should I
>expect to pay to have this done and who should do it? Would you agree with my
>approach to buying the bike for the frame or am I wasting my money?

  I had my 'old' (as my friends call it) Ron Cooper frame cold set to take
on more gears.  It cost about $40 as I recall.  No problems in 4 years of 
rough roads .. and I don't weigh 130#.  It's 531c with Campy drop outs.

 -Jim
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.tech
From: chandler@wc.novell.com (Mark Chandler)
Subject: Re: Braze-on Question (threaded inserts)
Organization: Novell, Inc. - Walnut Creek
Date: Thu, 3 Sep 1992 16:50:01 GMT

In article <1992Sep3.151051.9671@terminator.cc.umich.edu> pauls@umich.edu writes:
>Richard Foulk writes
>[...]
>| >I have both brazed in water bottle bosses and poped in riv-nuts
>| >and find the brazing more satisfactory. Although you do lose paint,
>| >the brazed in bosses won't turn. The riv-nuts can, making it almost
>| >impossible to remove the cage. (They don't always turn, but if they
>| >start they won't stop).
>| >
>| 
>| Assuming it's really okay to drill holes in that area (is it?), how
>| about just threading the holes?
>
>It's no problem at all to drill holes down there.  How do you think Klein,  
>Cannondale, Raleigh, etc get the threaded holes in their bikes?  The use  
>Riv-nuts or Nut-serts.

***-nuts aside, I don't think you want to drill and tap (thread) a hole
where the tubing may only be 0.6mm thick.  There simply isn't enough
metal to give a decent number of threads.



--
Mark Chandler               Novell, Inc.          510/975-4522
chandler@wc.novell.com      Walnut Creek, CA      510/938-2562 FAX
==================================================================
     The opinions expressed above are mine, not my employer's.
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.tech
From: kbest@doc.novell.com (Karl Best)
Subject: Re: Mispostings
Organization: Novell, Inc.
Date: Thu, 3 Sep 1992 20:30:06 GMT

In article <1992Aug29.223546.23391@CSD-NewsHost.Stanford.EDU>  
les@SAIL.Stanford.EDU (Les Earnest) writes:
> In any case, it is also clear that many people do not bother reading
> the charters of newsgroups they join and instead just read them a bit
> to determine by example what sorts of things go there.  In view of
> that, in the formative stage of a newsgroup it is particularly
> important to point out any general misposting patterns.  Failing that,
> the distribution of articles might become chaotic, which would defeat
> the purpose of subdivision.

I'll add my two bits based on the human-computer interface/design/usability  
stuff I've been reading lately:

If it isn't self evident or intuitive how something works then it's incorrectly  
designed. 

--
Karl Best                              Far away, across the field
Novell Tech Pubs           ...  __o    the tolling of the iron bell
Provo, Utah  801-429-3428 ..   -\<,    draws the faithful to their knees
kbest@doc.novell.com      ...(_)/(_).  to hear the softly spoken magic spell
karl_best@npd.novell.com                  -Roger Waters, Pink Floyd
From: dahls@fhydra.dnet.unit.no (Joern Yngve Dahl-Stamnes)
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.tech
Subject: Re: Locking Devices
Date: 1 Sep 92 16:21:18 GMT
Reply-To: dahls@fhydra.dnet.unit.no (Joern Yngve Dahl-Stamnes)
Organization: University of Trondheim, NORWAY

Thus spoke the keyboard of scherrer@ifi.unizh.ch (Stefan Scherrer):
>Hi there,
>
>excuse me if this is a faq, but I suffer a problem that needs a definitive
>solution. Having a fairly expensive ATB, I would like to protect it from
>thieves. As an overall solution, a Kryponite locker does a rather good job.
>Nevertheless, almost every month, different parts get stolen from my bike 
>(bar ends, pedals, etc.). The idea that came up immediately is to use an 
>electronic device which starts making terrible noise as soon as somebody 
>puts his/her dirty fingers on the bike.
>
>I propose to start a discussion on the usefulness of such systems 
>(if there exist any). 
>Please mail me any vendor names and experiences, I'll summarize.

First of all - what kind of editor do you use when you are posting? The
first part of the article was just one big long line. Try find the RETURN
key ;-)

OK, back to the topic. BEHEMOTH got a 9 stage alarm circuit that can
sense that someone is close to the bike (before touching it). But you
will find this system a bit expensive! It is cheaper to buy a pittbull
watchdog to keep an eye of your bike.

But there exist devices (here in Norway) that sense if the bike are
beeing moved. If the bike is constantly moving for more than 30 seconds
the alarm goes off. It make a terrible noice (over 100db). But I find 30
seconds to be more than the time I need to dismount this device from the
bike and put it on the ground (with a bit of practise (sp?)). So this is
not good enough for me. Maybe that is the reason why this device never
was any success on the market?

I have been playing around with the idea of making my own theft alarm,
but I don't have time to both ride my bikes and build alarms...

+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+--+-+-+-+-+-+-+
* I went back to my mother,           * Joern Yngve Dahl-Stamnes           *
* I said, "I'm crazy ma, help me!"    * University of Trondheim            *
* She said, "I know how it feels son, * The Norwegian Institute of Tech.   *
* 'cause it runs in the family."      * Division of Physical Electronics   *
*       - The Who, Quadrophenia       * e-mail: dahls@fhydra.dnet.unit.no  *
+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+--+-+-+-+-+-+-+
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.tech
From: junger@rsg1.er.usgs.gov (John Unger)
Subject: Re: Summ. of Frame Materials for Review
Organization: U.S. Geological Survey, Reston VA
Date: Fri, 28 Aug 1992 18:03:14 GMT

In article <dxdn!5c.tomk@netcom.com> tomk@netcom.com (Thomas H. Kunich) writes:
>In article <1992Aug28.033816.10552@mustang.mst6.lanl.gov> dak@ferrari.mst6.lanl.gov (Dave Korzekwa) writes:
>>
>> stuff deleted
>>
>>various grades of rather low alloy steel, the elastic modulus
>>("stiffness") is not going to vary by more than a couple of percent.
>
> more stuff deleted
>
>Whew! Have you ever read a tubing manual? Reynold's 753 is suppose
>to have almost 3 times the yield point of Reynold's 531.
>
>

Don't confuse elastic modulus and yield strength; they are two very
different properties of materials.

Elastic modulus (Young's modulus in this case) is the constant that
relates stress and strain in a material. This value does not change
much in alloy steels.

Yield strength is the amount of stress that can be applied to a material
before it begins to deform permanently (doesn't return to its original
shape when the stress is removed). Yield strength varies greatly among
different alloy steels. 

    cheers -- John Unger
    junger@mtn.er.usgs.gov
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.tech
From: ronf@panther3.panther.mot.com (Ron Feigen)
Subject: 8 speed freewheels for shimano 600 STI
Organization: Motorola Panther Project, Chandler, AZ
Date: Tue, 1 Sep 1992 16:41:17 GMT

Hi,

  I am buying a Trek 5200 road bike.  It has Shimano 600 STI with 
an eight speed cassette.  I have a spare wheel set from my last bike
with D-A hubs and a 7 speed (I am not sure if it a cassette or freewheel).
The bike shop said there were two brands of 8 speed freewheels that I
could use to adapt my old rear wheel. One was clearly superior to the
other although I don't recall the manufactures.
Has anybody tried to use an 8 speed freewheel with Shimano 600 (or D-A)
8 speed durailures?  Any info would be appreciated.

I haven't picked up the bike yet (he didn't have it in stock).  
Any suggestions on what I might want to swap out.  He will do it
for the difference in his cost.  I am going to have the TTT handlebars
replaced with Scott Drop-Ins (the lighter model), and the stock tires
replaced with Continentals. It comes with a Flite Titamium Seat and
the Look Graphite Racing pedals (last years model, P96 I believe).
Would the Shimano 600 or D-A be any better? They cost about the same.
The shop Owner uses/likes Time but they are WAY more money.  

I am also getting the Avocet computer with cadence and altimeter.  
Anybody have any feedback on this unit?

Thanks in advance,



-- 

>
Ron Feigen
ronf@panther.mot.com
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.tech
From: pardo@cs.washington.edu (David Keppel)
Subject: Re: top five innovations
Organization: Computer Science & Engineering, U. of Washington, Seattle
Date: Thu, 27 Aug 92 02:01:48 GMT

tomk@netcom.com (Thomas H. Kunich) writes:
>[Problems w/ dop-ins breaking.]

I've seen photos of pro road racers with handlebars supported both by
a conventional stem and by stays from the fork crown.

		;-D on  ( I can't handlebar it )  Pardo
From: petes@sheridan.ncd.com (Peter C. Simpson)
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.tech
Subject: Re: I Can't See
Date: 31 Aug 92 17:36:45 GMT
Organization: Network Computing Devices, Mt. View, CA, USA

In article <1992Aug27.162008.14837@athena.mit.edu>, aviator@athena.mit.edu (Joakim Karlsson) writes:
|> I got tired of bugs, rocks, dirt, and branches in my eyes, so
|> I bought some protective eyewear at my local bike store.  It's
|> a no-brand $20 job, but they fit great, and I wasn't ready to
|> spend $45-$100.  Slight problem: They fog up.  This only happens
|> after stopping the bike, not while riding (once I've wiped them
|> clear that is).  Is there a way to prevent this?  Do more expensive
|> sets not have this problem?  Or should I just never stop? :)
|> The lenses are clear and I use them almost exclusively off-road.
|> 
|> We've had some of the hottest muggiest weather ever here in 
|> the Boston area lately, so that may be a contributing factor.
|> 
|> ...Joakim
|> 
|

This also happens to my perscription lenses. I have two bits of 
advice - the first is that my condensation seems to be caused by my breath.
I have found that directing my breathing downward instead of straight out
reduces or eliminates the fogging. The other piece of advice is second
hand.  Rubbing a small about of liquid dish soap on the lenses is said
to eliminate fogging. I have never tried this ,for fear of smearing.

                               simPSon
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.tech
From: tomk@netcom.com (Thomas H. Kunich)
Subject: Re: Summ. of Frame Materials for Review
Date: Fri, 28 Aug 92 17:39:32 GMT
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services (408 241-9760 guest)

In article <1992Aug28.033816.10552@mustang.mst6.lanl.gov> dak@ferrari.mst6.lanl.gov (Dave Korzekwa) writes:
>
>>	Columbus EL: This tubeset uses a different starting alloy called
>>			Nivachrome, a niobium-vanadium-chromium alloy, which is 
>>			much stiffer that Cyclex. This tubeset is typically
>                        ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>
>I have to question this statement.  Since all of these "alloys" are
>various grades of rather low alloy steel, the elastic modulus
>("stiffness") is not going to vary by more than a couple of percent.

Whew! Have you ever read a tubing manual? Reynold's 753 is suppose
to have almost 3 times the yield point of Reynold's 531.

Your statement sounds to me a lot like Gordon Jennings famous
article from the 60's that said that since all steels have almost
the same ultimate strength, a frame (in this case motorcycle)
doesn't need to be made from anything more exotic than mild steel.

Even Dick Mann (ex-national #1) parroted this to me. It ain't true.
Small differences in alloys and/or heat treating make substatial
differences in yield strength (read -- "stiffness").
From: les@sail.stanford.edu (Les Earnest)
Subject: Welcome to rec.bicycles.tech
Organization: Computer Science Department, Stanford University
Date: Wed, 26 Aug 1992 05:23:49 GMT

I'm pleased to see that this group is alive and well.
In case you don't remember, here is the charter.

rec.bicycles.tech: Techniques of engineering, construction, maintenance
and repair of bicycles and ancillary equipment.  Not for products or
services offered or wanted -- see rec.bicycles.marketplace.

--
Les Earnest                                  Phone:  415 941-3984
Internet: Les@cs.Stanford.edu              USMail: 12769 Dianne Drive
UUCP: . . . decwrl!cs.Stanford.edu!Les         Los Altos Hills, CA 94022
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.tech
From: mvolo@ecsvax.uncecs.edu (Michael R. Volow)
Subject: Re: Dent in Top Tube
Organization: UNC Educational Computing Service
Date: Fri, 4 Sep 1992 01:25:23 GMT


Dent is not a structural problem. Frame builders often have block
forms with which they can re-round slightly dented tubes. Very shallow
dents can be filled flush with low temperature brazing material.
Suggest waiting until the frame need painting. Probably not worth
replacing the tube. I had a dent filled on my Mercian Olympic 531DB
frame at repaint time.
-- 
Michael Volow, Psychiatry, Durham VA Med Center, Durham NC 27712
919 286 0411 Ext 6933               mvolo@uncecs.edu
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.tech
From: greg@revcan.rct.ca (Greg Squires)
Subject: Re: creakondale
Organization: Revenue Canada, Taxation; Office Communications Division
Date: Fri, 28 Aug 1992 15:47:10 GMT

In article <ENGSTROM.92Aug27163843@moriarty.src.honeywell.com> engstrom@src.honeywell.com (Eric Engstrom) writes:
>
>In article <1992Aug26.195205.18467@athena.mit.edu> stigmata@athena.mit.edu (???) writes:
>
>> well, after getting a few replies to my previous post in rec.bicycles
>> regarding a creaking bottom bracket, i thank the person who told me that it
>> could be the rear hub in the dropouts, and i am pretty sure that he was
>> correct because i don't recall the bike creaking with my race wheels in it.
>> so, anybody with a creaking frame has another possible culprit.
>
>I don't mean to be a doubting Thomas, but, well, I doubt it.  I've seen a lot
>of people with this problem;  Sound comes directly from the crank-set and/or
>bottom-bracket, generally louder when you put more pressure on the cranks.

I finally dealt with my creaking crank after riding home from work yesterday.
I have a Shimano Deore XT sealed bottom bracket, so I was surprised that
when I replaced it with a new one, the creaking went away.  It might have
been the crank arms creaking against the crankshaft, but I had to use a lot
of muscle to get them off, so I assume they were on pretty tight.  Can I assume
then that the bottom bracket is at fault?  It's only 4 months old (1600 km).
I'll have to see how long the next one lasts (I work the bike pretty hard).

Greg

Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.tech,rec.bicycles.marketplace