HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: D.F.White@lut.ac.uk
Newsgroups: rec.autos.sport
Subject: Re:
Date: 27 Aug 92 18:24:44 GMT
Reply-To: D.F.White@lut.ac.uk (Dave White)
Organization: Loughborough University, UK.

me where) to advertise standard cars to the public alongside the racing specials
of the day driven by the "Barney Oldfields".In England we built Brooklands as an
oval banked circuit and it was treated much the same as horse races with the
drivers wearing colours ( like jockeys ) before the cars were painted in coloursthere was much betting and handicap starts(not extra weight)was the rule. This circuit still exists bankings and all but is mainly owned by a cigarette company
who do not wish to relinquish their right and continue to build factories on it.
Stock car dirt track racing copied from America started to become popular late fifties and ran old Jags etc. It still continues in many forms at the dirt tracksof quarter or half mile ovals (some tarmac) the fomula one cars using very trickshort block Chevrolet V8s using all the imported full race bits from USA, fitted on girder chassis. Although to some extent this is contact motor sport it is
surprisingly sophisticated mechanicaly that is if Chev V8s can ever be considered as sophisticated. At risk of being rec.auto.boring read on Im sorry I cant
give a character assasination of any F1 drivers but someone did ask whether
Magny Cours was bumpy, well it apeared to be re-tarmaced and was as smooth as
a pool table on the day before the GP (but very slippy). Last weekend I was
at Oulton park track which is also (much to my surprise) resurfaced and the
hairpin corner banking is very steep. So steep you can come down from the top
like the cycle racers do and surprise the cars in front. Some one also mentionedthe 16 cylinder BRM recently, well I watched it circulating at Donington recently and it sounded like an angry Bee. Other news, well the Hudson racer is still
suffering valve trouble and Im competing on the GP circuit at Angouleme next.Nowtheres a trivia question for F1 triviaophiles, who won there and when? and who
was the last F1 driver to compete without a crash helmet?
From: banta@blagg.Eng.Sun.COM (242 lbs before cooking)
Newsgroups: rec.autos.sport
Subject: Re: F1: No Williams for Senna in 93
Date: 1 Sep 1992 14:05:46 GMT
Organization: Sun, Moon, and Stars
NNTP-Posting-Host: blagg

(Thomas Cohen) writes:
>With the narrow tyres grip will be at a premium (obvious statement #3a)
>and those cars with the better suspension will be advantaged. This means
>Williams, McLaren (if they have it working to their approval), Lotus
>and maybe Benetton. I don't think it will close the field that much.

It's time to blow the dust off your Carroll Smith books.  If you think
you can make the tires narrower without a major overhaul of the
suspension, you're mistaken.  There's no doubt active suspension will
be as beneficial as it is now, but it wouldn't surprise me to see some
reshuffling along the way.

andy
banta@abingdon.sun.com
--
"If you add a teaspoon of wine to a barrel of sewage, you get sewage.
If you add a teaspoon of sewage to a barrel of wine, you get sewage.
This, my son, is entropy."
From: seghers@hpcc01.corp.hp.com (David Seghers)
Date: Wed, 26 Aug 1992 17:10:20 GMT
Subject: Re: Re: Mitsubish 3000GT-SL
Organization: the HP Corporate notes server
Newsgroups: rec.autos.sport

>/ hpcc01:rec.autos.sport / shaman@cix.compulink.co.uk (Leo Smith) /  3:06 pm  Aug 20, 1992 /
>Chest wig chariot. Not a sports car.
----------

So gou lost a "stoplight gran prix", and now you are grumpy.  Or did you
get blown off in the rain...


David Seghers (seghers@hpcc01.HP.COM) 415-691-3730

************************************************************************
Solipsist Society, Founding Member  (I think, therefore you are.)

Charter member of the "I HATE vi Club!"
************************************************************************
The statements and opinions above are my own, entirely my own, and no one
else's.  

Newsgroups: rec.autos.sport
From: csroach@eng.clemson.edu (Shane Roach)
Subject: Re: Marlboro Challenge Question
Organization: Clemson University
Date: Wed, 2 Sep 1992 20:42:16 GMT

From article <1992Sep2.115903.52324@gmuvax.gmu.edu>, by dreining@gmuvax.gmu.edu:
> 
>            Roberto Guerrero has qualified for the Marlboro
>            Challenge because of his pole at Indy. Does
>            anyone know who will provide him with a ride 
>            for this race? 
> 
I'm not sure how the situation stands at the moment, but the last I heard, 
which was in the current issue of OnTrack, he was talking with Chip Ganassi.
I hope he gets a ride.  'Twould be a shame for the Indianapolis poleman to 
have to sit it out, even if Indy was a one-shot deal.


Shane Roach
csroach@eng.clemson.edu



Newsgroups: rec.autos.sport
From: mchivers@uniwa.uwa.edu.au (Michael Chivers)
Subject: Re: Other rumors (Was F1 News: Patrese to Benetton! (Brundle dropped))
Organization: University of Western Australia
Date: Fri, 28 Aug 1992 01:54:04 GMT

roberto@dcs.glasgow.ac.uk (roberto) writes:

>Robert Marti (marti@nugget.inf.ethz.ch) writes:

>Possibility two: Honda is out or Senna manages to get a Williams seat.

>Williams: Senna/Mansell/Prost (two of them)
>McLaren:  Michael Andretti(???) and Patrese/Brundle 
           ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>Ferrari:  Alesi and Berger
>Benneton: Schumacher and Patrese/Brundle. 

I don't think either of Al Unser Jr or M Andretti will be seen in F1
next year.  Maybe in 94, if the US GP returns ?

For the record, this is what I think will happen next year :

Mclaren: Senna & Blundell
Williams: Mansell & Prost
Benneton: Patrese & Schumacher
Ferrari: Berger & Alesi

This all depends on whether Mclaren can get a competative engine package,
otherwise Senna will go for Williams or a year off.

Of course, I could be totally and utterly wrong ...

Anthony Doig                  | E-Mail : mchivers@uniwa.oz.au
Corporate Systems Development |
Perth, Western Australia      | - When you read this, laugh -
From: skod@trenco.Eng.Sun.COM (Scott Griffith, Sun Lumpyware)
Newsgroups: rec.autos.sport
Subject: Hard times claim another victim.
Date: 27 Aug 1992 22:32:22 GMT
Organization: Sun Microsystems Inc., Mountain View, CA
NNTP-Posting-Host: trenco
Keywords: see ya!

I'm posting this for Bruce McCulley, for reasons that will become 
very clear very soon.

------------------------------------------

On Monday I got my lay-off notice.  My usual accounts were disabled at that
time (although some mail has been forwarded since then), and I was given this
guest account for the week.  This account expires tomorrow (Friday, 8/28) and
I cannot be sure that I will be able to check for mail before it expires.

The layoff comes as no surprise, and I am not distressed by it.  I could see
the handwriting on the wall for many months and did nothing to avert it.
I don't view the termination of my employment as a problem but rather as an
opportunity for personal growth.

My future direction is still uncertain.  Thankfully I have a severance package
that will allow me to explore various career alternatives, and I have already
had my first job interview.

I expect to get onto Compu$erve sometime soon, or to find a public-access Unix
server, so I should be back on the net sometime soon (I hope!).

Thanks, and best wishes to all my friends out there.  See you at the races!

--bruce mcculley

formerly: mcculley@racy.dec.com

-------------------------------------------------

Another one bites the dust. Hope to see you back on very soon...

-skod


--
Scott Griffith, Sun Microsystems Lumpyware
expatriate SCCA New England Region Flagging/Communications worker
(and sometimes driver, of anything that turns both right and left,
and can pass tech...) Return Path : skod@trenco.Eng.Sun.COM
From: danjones@pyrps5.eng.pyramid.com (Dan Jones)
Newsgroups: rec.autos.sport
Subject: Re: Two +/- zero
Date: 2 Sep 92 02:11:05 GMT
Organization: Pyramid Technology Corporation, Mountain View

Hugh Graham writes:

>>Is it illegal for teams to run more than 2 cars? 
>
>YES.  This year and for many years past.  I wonder when this started.  Didn't
>there used to be several Mercedes and suchlike in days of yore?
>This year it seems to be frowned on to run only one car - I suppose this is to
>ensure the sport remains properly elitist and expensive.:-)

This sounds like a good trivia question.  Who was the last driver to be entered
as a third driver for a team?   I know that Nigel was a third entry for Lotus
in '80 with Andretti and De Angelis at two races.  Has any driver been a third
entry since?

I don't know what year they added the rule to limit two entries per team, but
it was after '80.

Dan Jones
Newsgroups: rec.autos.sport
From: mini11@cbnewsg.cb.att.com (mark.kearney)
Subject: Rahal Comment
Keywords: competition
Organization: AT&T
Distribution: usa
Date: Mon, 31 Aug 1992 13:42:57 GMT


What was with Rahal yesterday after his accident? The way I saw it was
Stefan Johannson and Bobby were racing. To say Stefan shouldn't try and
race to win because he's doesn't have any championship points is absurd!
Given the course limitations for passing areas I'm assuming Stefan thought
he could get by Bobby. I know Tony B. doesn't spend his money to just
finish each race. Every team is there to win!

Mark
Newsgroups: rec.autos.sport
From: cornutt@lambda.msfc.nasa.gov (David Cornutt)
Subject: Re: IMSA (Jaguar)
Organization: NASA/MSFC
Distribution: usa
Date: Fri, 28 Aug 1992 15:23:29 GMT

paulg@pyramid.COM (Paul Griffiths) writes:

>	IMSA prides itself on it's weight distribution system,
>saying that it makes for close and exciting racing.  This would
>hold true, if they used the system logically.  It really seems to
>be nothing but politics. I haven't seen a "fair" race in about
>two years or so, when both Nissan and Jag seemed about even and
>the winner of the race was unknown. IMSA promptly screwed that up the
>next year by penalizing Jag heavily. As it stands now, you couldn't
>even hold a pick 6 for IMSA, because 1-2 and possibly third place
>are always known. 

Agreed -- they have screwed this up in a major way.  IMSA needs to go
back and re-think the whole concept of GTP.  Or else, pretty soon it
won't be possible to have an IMSA Pick-6 because there won't be
six cars in the field!

-- 
David Cornutt, New Technology Inc., Huntsville, AL  (205) 461-4517
(cornutt@lambda.msfc.nasa.gov; some insane route applies)
"The opinions expressed herein are not necessarily those of my employer,
not necessarily mine, and probably not necessary."
From: danjones@pyrps5.eng.pyramid.com (Dan Jones)
Newsgroups: rec.autos.sport
Subject: Re: Schumacher's racing career
Date: 3 Sep 92 02:14:51 GMT
Organization: Pyramid Technology Corporation, Mountain View

Tak Ariga writes:

>It has been said that the race in Belgium marks Michael Schumacher's 
>first anniversary since joining F1; his first race was exactly a
>year ago in Spa.  It has also been said that it is his 18th F1 race.
>
>Now, given that there are 16 races in a season, the first anniversary
>should be the 17th race, right?

You are assuming that the order of events remains the same year to year.  
It doesn't.  Last year, Spa was round 11, this year it was round 12.
Therefore, its kind of bogus to say it's his anniversary.

Dan Jones
Newsgroups: rec.autos.sport
From: thos@suite.sw.oz.au (Thomas Cohen)
Subject: Re: BELGIUM-SPOILERS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Organization: Softway Pty Ltd
Date:  1 Sep 92 22:39:08 GMT

In <3380046@hpcc01.corp.hp.com> boell@hpcc01.corp.hp.com (Donald P Boell) writes:

>Schumacher was doing everything he could to get around.  The last thing
>he needed was for Brundle to start getting aggressive behind him, yet this
>is exactly what happened.

>For awhile it looked like good old Brutal would ram his nose up Schumacher's
>tail pipe yet again...thankfully Schumacher was able to make the pass on Senna
>on Senna's right while at the same time Brundle charged him on the left.

>Is it any wonder that quite a few people dislike Brundle?  He has absolutely
>so concept of team driving.  I would hate to see him paired with Mansell, 
>Prost or Senna for fear that his actions would cause one shunt after another.

It looks like a couple of you think so highly of Schumacher that
no one else is able to challenge him. Certainly not his team mate,
who after all has equal equipment and couldn't possibly be as fast
in it.

And who are these 'quite a few' people? There don't seem to be that
many that I've noticed. And while you may call him 'brutal', who was
it earlier in the season who kept taking himself and Senna out, through
stupidity? You may call it youthful exhuberance, but there's no place
for that in a professional racer.

IMHO Brundle is a damn sight more professional that Schumacher in his
approach, and nearly as fast. In fact, probably as fast, just not as
aggressive (or suicidal).

>Schumacher is an up and coming star, yet his career could be ended in an 
>incident such as occured in Hungary.

Oh puleeeze! Give it a break.
-- 
thos cohen  				       |Softway Pty Ltd
 The best way to make a Japanese engineer wince|ACSnet:         thos@softway.oz
 is (when talking about an NSX) to say slowly  |UUCP: ...!uunet!softway.oz!thos
 'but its _not a Ferrari_ is it?' R.Bulgin, CAR|Internet:    thos@softway.oz.au
From: apayton@acorn.co.uk (Andrew W Payton)
Newsgroups: rec.autos.sport
Subject: Berger to Ferrari
Date: 26 Aug 92 15:24:36 GMT
Organization: Acorn Computers Ltd, Cambridge, England


 Gerhard Berger has signed a two-year   
 contract to rejoin Ferrari from next   
 season in place of Italian Ivan Capelli
                                        
 The Austrian returns to the Italian    
 team where he scored four Grand Prix   
 wins between 1987 and 1989 and will    
 partner Frenchman Jean Alesi.          
                                        
 The 33-year-old is currently driving   
 for McLaren with Ayrton Senna, who had 
 been Ferrari's first choice.           
                                        
 Berger is currently lying fifth in the 
 world championship standings and       
 Ferrari hope he will revive their      
 fortunes.  They recorded the last of   
 their 103 race victories two years ago.



---Andrew

   Information Systems Group    EMail:     apayton@acorn.co.uk
   Acorn Computers Ltd          Telephone: +44 223 245200
   

   "We're going to have to get pretty low to land this one!"

    --Ted Striker Airplane II
Newsgroups: rec.autos.sport
From: chuck@eos.ncsu.edu (Chuck Kesler)
Subject: Re: F1: some Belgian questions
Organization: North Carolina State University, Project EOS
Date: Tue, 1 Sep 1992 16:41:13 GMT

>In article <1992Sep01.093738.11633@wes.on.ca>, tomh@wes.on.ca (Tom Haapanen) writes:
>|> A race is called a "wet" race if and only if at least half the field starts
>|> on rain tires.  I must say I'm baffled (and happy!) about why they didn't
>|> stop the race when it started raining...

There is a short blurb in the "Beyond the Pond" F1 recap in this month's 
RACER magazine that said something to the effect that the rule was changed
after the French GP so that now drivers can change to rain tires at their
discretion, and that the red flag will only be used in extreme conditions.
(But what does FISA define as extreme -- if the first 14 or 15 laps of last
year's Australian GP weren't extreme, then what would be?  Hurricane Andrew?
:-))

Anyway, I don't have the magazine in front of me, so I can't quote what they
said, and I don't recall hearing about this rule change anywhere else, so 
maybe someone with a little better access to this sort of info can fill in
the details.

-chuck-

-- 
   Chuck Kesler                     |  Internet:   chuck@eos.ncsu.edu,
   Unix Systems Programmer          |              chuck_kesler@ncsu.edu
   Engineering Computer Operations  |
   North Carolina State University  |  Phone:      +1 919 515 2458
From: bspahh@gdr.bath.ac.uk (Andrew Henry)
Newsgroups: rec.autos.sport
Subject: US motorsport exports. Was Re: Proposal: rec.autos.formula1
Date: 27 Aug 92 09:53:54 GMT
Organization: School of Biological Sciences, University of Bath, UK

In article <1992Aug25.173521.708@lambda.msfc.nasa.gov> cornutt@lambda.msfc.nasa.gov (David Cornutt) writes:
>lallo@stsci.edu (Matthew D. Lallo,622,4577) writes:

>>And remember, F1 is a world sport and this is a world net. 
>
>Wrong, F1 is a European sport.  

I prefer F1 is multinational, Indycars are international, F3000 is European.

>Just because Bernie or Max Mosley or whoever proclaims FISA 
>to be the only worldwide motorsport does not make it so.

True.  Its a case of the Emperor's new clothes. 

>>As sad as the truth is, the u.s. is very isolationist regarding motorsports. 

>I resent the use of the word "isolationist" (how much racing has Europe
>imported from the U.S.?) 

The UK has imported karting, drag racing and stock car racing from the
US for start. Admittedly these series tend to be for clubman and they
have little sponsorship & TV coverage.  There is also a bit of grass 
track racing.  I've never heard of any tractor pulls!

>Obviously, the things that have been successful in Europe are very
>different from what has been successful in the U.S.  How did things
>evolve this way?  Why, for instance, is there so much oval track racing
>in the U.S. and Australia, but almost none (as far as I know) in
>Europe or Asia?  A possible topic for another thread...

I think you have to let the French take the credit for starting road
racing at the turn of the century.  Brooklands and Indy just about tie
for the first significant purpose-built race track.  I think the
first hillclimb was up La Turbie near Monaco in ~ 1901.

I don't know which would be the first major saloon car/ stock car
racing series on purpose-built circuits.  I've never heard of a major
saloon car series in the UK before the early '60s.  I suppose Le Mans
started out as a race for more or less standard road cars.  I think
you still would have to give NASCAR the credit for the first popular
race series for production-based cars.

Stock car racing started in the UK sometime in the '60s.  There are
about ten quarter mile ovals within about 80 miles of London run by a
company called Spedeworth.  Derek Warwick started racing in karts and
then spent several years driving on the ovals.  He was (wait for it)
*World* Champion in 1972 in the Super Stox class, beating drivers from
as far afield as Belgium and Holland :-)  Martin Brundle started in
grass track racing and later raced a hotrod Ford Escort on the
Spedeworth ovals.

About a half of the ovals are dirt tracks - the rest are paved.
Super Stox cars run a 2 litre Ford pinto engine in an open wheel
chassis. Theres also a Formula one class which runs some sort of V8.
You couldn't call it a big time sport.  A big crowd would be 10,000.
Most people know Wimbledon (in descending order) for the tennis
championship, the football club, the Wombles and finally the greyhound
stadium with an oval track for racing stock cars.



			Andrew  Henry
Sempre  Gilles					bspahh@gdr.bath.ac.uk
From: mferrare@physics.adelaide.edu.au (Mark Ferraretto)
Newsgroups: rec.autos.sport
Subject: Re: F1: Answers to recent trivia
Date: 28 Aug 92 03:28:29 GMT


How about 1986 When Prost won the WC at Adelaide after Mansell's blowout?
--
   \ | /   PA38.| Now | Name  : Mark Ferraretto
-----O-----Gotta| Aero| Place : Department of Physics and Mathematical Physics
     |     love |Rated|         University of Adelaide
    ---    it!! |-----| Email : mferrare@physics.adelaide.edu.au
From: welty@cabot.balltown.cma.COM (richard welty)
Subject: Re: Lime Rock Vintage Fall Festival
Followup-To: rec.autos.sport
Organization: New York State Institute for Sebastian Cabot Studies
Distribution: usa
Date: Fri, 28 Aug 1992 21:32:53 GMT

[i've added a temporary crossposting to rec.autos; followups are
directed back to rec.autos.sport -- rpw]

i talked to scott mckee at Lime Rock Park in CT yesterday; he asked me
to spread the word around about the auction on the 5th of september at
the vintage festival.  evidently a great deal of automotive and
auto sport material is to be auctioned off; the feature of the
auction is

the last BMW M3 ever produced

this item has not been widely advertised as being at the auction
because they didn't know for sure that they were getting it until
about a week ago.

the 5th is of course racing practice, auction, and swap meet; the 6th is
the concours and swap meet, and the 7th are the vintages races and the
end of the swap meet.  the LRP swap meet is one of the best (perhaps the
best) on the east coast, if you're looking for old automotive parts or
books with a sporting outlook.

i've attended the vintage races at LRP for the past several years, and
they are always a very enjoyable event, well worth the trip.  lots of
neat old race cars, and such like.

cheers,
  richard
-- 
richard welty                            518-393-7228
welty@cabot.balltown.cma.com
  ``if you can read this, mario, you're too close''
    -- bumper sticker seen on a CART safety truck
Newsgroups: rec.autos.sport
From: bert@opusc.csd.scarolina.edu (Bert Still)
Subject: Re: senna
Organization: Univ. of South Carolina, Columbia
Date: Wed, 26 Aug 1992 00:06:35 GMT

In article <AJGAM.92Aug20145126@sabrina.sabrina> ajgam@sabrina.sabrina (Antonio Jorge Marques) writes:
>In article <1992Aug17.103143.3191@bradford.ac.uk> D.S.Walker@bradford.ac.uk (Simeon Walker) writes:
>
>>I disagree, I would say that Mansell was driving an uncompetitive car when
>>he was with Ferrari! He still managed to win some races. I think it was at
>>Hungary several years ago when he came from 12th place on the grid to win
>>the race in a Ferrari, overtaking Senna in his Mclaren.
>
>>I am a fan of Mansell, but also of many other drivers, except Senna...
>
> But Senna this year doens't have a competitive car but he still
>manage to win some races too ...

ahh, but there you miss the point.  senna has won this year in cases when
a williams driver (once mansell, and once patrese) had the field *entirely
covered* and then self-destructed: senna has not taken an uncompetetive
car and overtaken obviously better cars on the track as mansell did in the
mentioned reference.  this is not a subtle point: many good drivers have
won races when the clear favorites have dropped out, but few have driven
the wheels off an uncompetetive car, passing others on the track to win.


bert

-- 
bert still, still@llnl.gov, postdoc/mathematician, numerical math group, LLNL
==============================================================================
ran out of gas again, now i'm dancing on the median.
ain't bummin, ain't thumbin a ride today.  -- helen keller plaid
From: perryd@Software.Mitel.COM (Dave Perry)
Newsgroups: rec.autos.sport
Subject: Re: RA for the USGP (Was: Road America comment
Date: 26 Aug 92 19:10:22 GMT
Organization: Mitel. Kanata (Ontario). Canada.

In article <1992Aug25.144036.14919@stsci.edu> lallo@stsci.edu writes:
[stuff about tracks being near population centers these days deleted]
>beauty is fantastic. A perfect location is one like Montreal, where the facility
>is an isolated purpose built track, on an island in the St. Lawrence, yet within
>spitting distance of downtown Montreal. (5 minute drive). 
>
>I agree, Laguna Seca in 94!
>
>Matt

I like to be able to camp at the track, and you can't do that at Montreal. 
There's nothing quite like waking to the sound of roaring engines :-)

Can't please everybody I guess.

Dave

-- 
Dave Perry                     | Opinions expressed here are mine
ve3ifb@ve3jf.#eon.on.can.noam  | and are not necessarily those of
perryd@software.mitel.com      | Mitel Corporation.
Newsgroups: rec.autos.sport