HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: dleslie@phakt.usc.edu (David Leslie)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
Subject: Re: Does reading this group make you depressed? The story of a victim.
Date: 29 Dec 1992 17:25:44 -0800
Organization: University of Southern California, Los Angeles, CA
NNTP-Posting-Host: phakt.usc.edu

In article lindblad@klaava.Helsinki.FI (Jarkko Lindblad) writes:
>Marc N. Barrett (barrett@iastate.edu) wrote:
>>    I doubt it would uplift me.  Even in Europe there is no CD-ROM or good
>> productivity software available for the Amiga.
>That's true Marc, CygnusEd Professional, SAS C 6.1, Video Toaster's
>software, Real 3D 2.0, they all suck, they're lousy and all inferior
>to even most basic MicroSoft products. And of course we all know how
>one definately can not hook all those CD-ROMs available via SCSI. God
>you're pathetic, Marc.

Look, I know it is natural to bash Marc Barrett, but it is important
not to ignore possible underlying truths. The fact is that there is
a severe shortage quality productivity software. The titles you mention
are nice, but aren't very useful for a typical user. I'll tell you
what is missing, and that is software of the quality of : Word for
Windows, Lotus 1-2-3 for windoze, Quicken, PackRat, and WinFax pro.
Those five applications, IMHO, make clones+windows more useful than
the amiga. I mean, Real 3-d and the toaster have limited use. Do
you have a toaster? I don't. At some point hardware superiority
becomes irrelevent when software is so obviously inferior, or even
non-existant. Hey, the up-side is that lack of software is easier
to fix than a messed up OS or crappy hardware. It just takes some
money and pressue from C=.

 /  Amiga  ///    |  U.S.C. Trojans  | O Bar  | David Leslie        \
|         ///     |     Fight On!    | E O    |                      |
|     \\\///      |        --        | Meu    | dleslie@usc.edu      |
 \     \XX/ A1000 |     Go Kings!    | Lar!   |                     /
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy,comp.sys.amiga.misc
From: jerry@msi.com (Jerry Shekhel)
Subject: Re: Don't let the Amiga Die (Part II)!!!
Followup-To: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy,comp.sys.amiga.misc
Organization: Molecular Simulations, Inc.
Date: Mon, 21 Dec 1992 23:36:51 GMT
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1 PL8]
X-Posted-From: phoenix.msi.com
NNTP-Posting-Host: sol.ctr.columbia.edu

Michael van Elst (mlelstv@specklec.mpifr-bonn.mpg.de) wrote:
:
: >Interesting statement, Philip.  The original PC had an 8088 CPU.  How does
: >one write 8-bit software for a 16-bit (internal) CPU?
:
: There's nothing in reality which is 8-bit,16-bit or 32-bit software.
:

Then why was Philip complaining about 486 machines running 8-bit software,
if there really is no such thing?

:
: People refer to iAPX286 protected mode programs as 16-bit software
: and to iAPX386 protected mode programs as 32-bit software. The
: '8-bit' name is an extension to that scheme and refers to 8088/8086
: real mode (or virtual mode) programs.
:

Incorrect, as far as I know.  There are four modes of operation, Real Mode,
16-bit Protected Mode, 32-bit Protected Mode, and Virtual86 Mode.  Real Mode
has nothing to do with word size or register access; a program running in
Real Mode is free to use the full 32-bit registers and data bus.  Lots of
current programs take advantage of 32-bit CPUs even though they run in Real
Mode.

:
: These programs aren't optimized
: for 16bit or even 32bit memory cycles (by aligning code and data
: accordingly) so that the name '8-bit' has some justification.
:

How can you say that all Real Mode (DOS) software is unomptimized?
Word alignment has been a compiler option from the very beginning!

:
: Michael van Elst
:
--
+-------------------+----------------------------+---------------------------+
| JERRY J. SHEKHEL  | Molecular Simulations Inc. | Time just fades the pages |
| Drummers do it... |     Burlington, MA USA     | in my book of memories.   |
|    ... In rhythm! |        jerry@msi.com       |         -- Guns N' Roses  |
+-------------------+----------------------------+---------------------------+
From: monster@mbear.apana.org.au (Martin Ozolins)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
Subject: Re: Don't let the Amiga Die (Part II)!!!
Distribution: world
X-NewsSoftware: GRn-beta 1.16g (10.12.92) by Michael B. Smith & Mike Schwartz
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
Date: 1 Jan 93 08:29:28 PST
Organization: Bears Incorporated

In article <1992Dec29.175857.6067@sol.ctr.columbia.edu> jerry@msi.com (Jerry Shekhel) writes:
> Martin Ozolins (monster@mbear.apana.org.au) wrote:
> :
> : And after a Text book definition was quoted for your benefit, you went away
> : for a few weeks and gave us peace and quiet.
> :
> 
> I guess some people really see what they want to see when they read c.s.a.a.
> Nobody ever proved anything, on this newsgroup or any other, about what is
> the undisputable definition of the term "operating system".

SO text books that they use in University are wrong ?

> 
> And I went away for a while because my company moved and I had no news
> access.
> 

Excuses excuses :-)

-- 

Martin Ozolins :Internet monster@mbear.apana.org.au
Victoria       :FIDO 3:633/359.6 AMIGANET 41:300/359.6 TRINET 42:8699/8.6
Australia      :Amiga Programmer, UniSYS 1100/2200 Systems Programmer 
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
From: kodak@mentor.cc.purdue.edu (Jason 'KodaK' Balicki)
Subject: Re: Does reading this group make you depressed? The story of a victim.
Organization: Purdue University Computing Center
Date: Mon, 4 Jan 1993 02:42:26 GMT

In article <1993Jan3.215702.11987@klaava.Helsinki.FI> lindblad@klaava.Helsinki.FI (Jarkko Lindblad) writes:
>fheitkamp@desire.wright.edu wrote:

>I have always wondered where all those 68k-chips go as Apple and
>Commodore and all those laser printers can't be the only ones using
>68k as 68k-series sells a lot more than those combined. Anyone have
>any idea (excluding MB)?

Well, I know this doesn't add too much to the picture, but the 68k line
is the hobbiest chip of choice. 

A bunch of dinky X display stations use 680x0's as well.

>Jarkko Lindblad         | sleep my friend and you will see
>lindblad@cc.helsinki.fi | that dream is my reality
>------------------------| they keep me locked up in this cage
>          - MetallicA - | can't they see it's why my brain say rage


--Jason Balicki
kodak@mentor.cc.purdue.edu
From: bloc1469@ee.ee.uwm.edu (Gregory R Block)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
Subject: Re: CBM mention on 12/11/92 Computer Chronicles
Date: 22 Dec 1992 19:06:45 GMT
Organization: Electrical Engineering Dept. University of Wisconsin - Milwaukee
NNTP-Posting-Host: 129.89.2.33

In article <1992Dec22.170500.21893@sol.ctr.columbia.edu> jerry@msi.com (Jerry Shekhel) writes:
>David Tiberio (dtiberio@engws10.ic.sunysb.edu) wrote:
>: 	And as far as apps talking to each other, hell when did the Mac
>: introduce it's app ports? ARexx and Rexx have been around for years, and
>: ports have always been there.

>The Mac has had a useful clipboard since day one.

Where does this come from?  First, Rexx is obviously much more than a
clipboard.  Second, the Amiga has ALWAYS had an extremely powerful
clipboard.  Support for 256 separate units (the standard unit being
#0), any type of data (IFF file support), and as of 2.0, extremely
easy ways of making use of that information.

This was almost as cool as Peter da Silva telling you that in order to
make any use of extended memory on a DOS machine you had to 1) install
another OS, 2) use it as swap space, or 3) as a ramdisk, and you
telling him that Windows and OS/2 used extended memory as real memory
(which, if you hadn't figured out, falls under #1...)

Greg


--
(: (: (: (: Have you overdosed on smileys today?  Why NOT!?! :) :) :) :)
(: "Our father, who art in Iowa, Hollow be thy head, Thy ideas run    :)
(:  Thy will be done, At Commodore as it is at Apple"  -Dan Barrett   :)
(: (: (: (: (: (: (: (: (: (: (: (: () :) :) :) Wubba, the Dark Angel :)
From: jbickers@templar.actrix.gen.nz (John Bickers)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
Subject: Re: Future Amiga chipsets
Date: 24 Dec 92 11:34:27 PST
Organization: TAP

Quoted from <1992Dec22.153943.20019@sol.ctr.columbia.edu> by jerry@msi.com (Jerry Shekhel):

> to create.  On the other hand, a second-week computer science student would
> have no problem intentionally screwing up a system without memory protection.

    Under Unix if you can't get at the other programs in memory, you
    just nail their files.

    BTW, I was at an IBM presentation once where they made the idiotic
    implication that university students are the people who write
    viruses. Is this some sort of idiot party line for you guys?

> | JERRY J. SHEKHEL  | Molecular Simulations Inc. | Time just fades the pages |
--
*** John Bickers, TAP.                   jbickers@templar.actrix.gen.nz ***
***    "Radioactivity - It's in the air, for you and me" - Kraftwerk    ***
From: an780@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Travis Grundke)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
Subject: Re: IBM PC Demise?
Date: 30 Dec 1992 15:38:00 GMT
Organization: Case Western Reserve University, Cleveland, OH (USA)
Reply-To: an780@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Travis Grundke)
NNTP-Posting-Host: thor.ins.cwru.edu


In a previous article, papresco@cantor.math.uwaterloo.ca (Paul Prescod) says:

>>>Except that the PowerPC is a RISC CPU that will run Unix, System 7 and
>>>DOS at PC prices.  It is marketed by two companies that UNDERSTAND
>>>marketing.  It has huge market hype two years before release?
>>
>>understand marketing? Isn't IBM one of the two companies?
>
>You mean IBM the biggest computer company in the world?  The one that
>sells more computers annually then anybody except Apple?  Their
>mainframe business may be drying up, and in the we in the non-corporate
>business world may laugh at them, but studies have shown that IBM and
>apple are the the *ONLY* computer companies that the average
>non-computer hacker is familiar with.
>
 That's right. (BTW- Apple has outsold IBM in PCs for the second year in a
row)

-- 
Travis Grundke	 	    |  For More information about MacGames Digest,
Contributing Editor-        |  The First Publication Dedicated to Macintosh
MacGames Digest		    |  Gaming, Please contact us at the previous 
an780@cleveland.freenet.Edu |  E-mail Address. (c)1992-1993 Travis Grundke/MGD
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
From: m92mmy@tdb.uu.se (Mattias Myrberg)
Subject: 'Falcon sucks' etc
Organization: Alien Dreams Department
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1 PL6]
Date: Tue, 22 Dec 1992 09:00:10 GMT


Look what I found in comp.sys.atari.st

In article 21185 Kosmatos Odisseas writes:
>In article <1h0eelINNeqh@usenet.INS.CWRU.Edu> aa399 (Len Stys) writes:
>>
>>Atari is already BEHIND in technology with the Falcon030.  The only thing
>>that the Falcon has over ANY other system is the DSP chip.

>I disagree with that statement. I'll tell you in what way: For the price,
>the Falcon has the following things that other computers do not seem to
>consistently have: (not mentioning the DSP, to show how wrong you are.)

>   -> Very fast hard disk port (SCSI-II) that uses the concept of DMA

[Stuff omitted]


>I'll stop here, that should be enough. For $799 U.S., you just
>  will not find a computer as capable as the Falcon would be if
>   it were out. Including the Amiga 1200. The Amiga 1200 is pretty
>   close, and will probably sell well because it is a very good deal
>   (that is, regardless of whether the Falcon has a DSP or not.)

>  And thanks to Eric R. Smith the Falcon will run on quite a decent
>  multitasking operating system. It has pipes, forks, shared text,
>  universal drives, and looks pretty good. The whole operating system
>  runs pretty smoothly (I have seen Multi-tos at the Atari Messe '92)
>  and I don't think any $799 PC configuration would ever come close
>  to the performance of the Falcon, especially were it running
>  a Microsoft's DOS and WINDOWS setup.

>  My point for all this is that It seems to me that at the price,
>  the Falcon030 has _many_ things to make it an overall _much_
>  better computer than similarly priced Macs and PC's. The Amiga 1200
>  seems nice too, although for now, I kinda want a...


/Mattias

_______
Mattias Myrberg

m92mmy@bellatrix.tdb.uu.se
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
From: lindblad@klaava.Helsinki.FI (Jarkko Lindblad)
Subject: Re: Does reading this group make you depressed? The story of a victim.
Organization: University of Helsinki
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1 PL6]
Date: Wed, 30 Dec 1992 21:04:38 GMT

Marc N. Barrett (barrett@iastate.edu) wrote:
> In article <1992Dec29.214112.20498@klaava.Helsinki.FI> lindblad@klaava.Helsinki.FI (Jarkko Lindblad) writes:
> >Marc N. Barrett (barrett@iastate.edu) wrote:
> >
> >>    I doubt it would uplift me.  Even in Europe there is no CD-ROM or good
> >> productivity software available for the Amiga.
> >
> >That's true Marc, CygnusEd Professional, SAS C 6.1, Video Toaster's
> >software, Real 3D 2.0, they all suck, they're lousy and all inferior
> >to even most basic MicroSoft products.
> 
>    Yes, CignusEd Pro, SAS C, and Real 3-D are really good examples of 
> productivity software.  All these go hand-in-hand with WordPerfect,
> Adobe Illustrator, and MS Works.  NOT!

Did I understand correctly, that you mean that a word processor for PC
is a heck of a lot better program than a programming language for Amiga?

> > And of course we all know how
> >one definately can not hook all those CD-ROMs available via SCSI.
> 
>    Uh huh, and CD-ROM drives are really good examples of software, too.  NOT!

And where did you say software? Somehow I, as someone else (who's name
escapes me) too, understood  that you meant hardware, not software.
And there are software on CD-ROMs too for Amiga, not much, but even
one disk is eonugh to proove that youre wrong (and the one disk
excluding CDTV-disks is the CD-ROM having some of the fish disks).

Marc, is there a fan club for you? I really would like to join to one.

-- 
Jarkko Lindblad         | sleep my friend and you will see
lindblad@cc.helsinki.fi | that dream is my reality
------------------------| they keep me locked up in this cage
          - MetallicA - | can't they see it's why my brain say rage
From: ggg@kepler.unh.edu (Gregory G Greene)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
Subject: Re: Future Amiga chipset
Date: 23 Dec 1992 02:34:23 GMT
Organization: University of New Hampshire  -  Durham, NH
NNTP-Posting-Host: kepler.unh.edu

'>>When I see Sierra, SSI, and EA (Origin included) all dropping 
'>>support within 2 weeks, I have to get the feeling something is wrong. And 
'>>I still think 3DO will be the end of Amiga.
'>
'>Wait a minute. You are the 2cond person to claim this re Sierra and EA. Am
'>I reading different news or what up here? Could you please indicate where
'>you read/heard/etc...this?

        EA owns a lot of different smaller software companies, some support
   the Amiga, some don't.  I don't think EA has generically said that they
   don't support the Amiga anymore, certainly some of the companies they own
   have said this though.  Maybe thats where the rumor/misunderstanding
   started.  SSI is on a case by case method of determining Amiga support.
   They recently cancelled the Amiga version of Dark Sun, but I don't think
   they have dropped Amiga support altogether.  I'm not sure about Sierra, but
   from reading the amiga.games group it looks like they have dropped support.

							Greg Greene
                                                        ggg@kepler.unh.edu


   PS. Speaking of games, Origin really failed me, no Ultima Underworld II
       for X-Mas. :(  I guess Dan won't have his super turbo stick to bash
       all Amiga users with until the middle of January. :)


'>Philip McDunnough
'>philip@utstat.toronto.edu
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
From: jerry@msi.com (Jerry Shekhel)
Subject: Re: CBM mention on 12/11/92 Computer Chronicles
Organization: Molecular Simulations, Inc.
Date: Tue, 22 Dec 1992 17:05:00 GMT
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1 PL8]
X-Posted-From: phoenix.msi.com
NNTP-Posting-Host: sol.ctr.columbia.edu

David Tiberio (dtiberio@engws10.ic.sunysb.edu) wrote:
:
: 	Funny, I can move both my windows and my screens both horizontally
: and vertically.
:

Really?  You can have, for example, one screen covering up the left half
of another?

:
: 	And as far as apps talking to each other, hell when did the Mac
: introduce it's app ports? ARexx and Rexx have been around for years, and
: ports have always been there.
:

The Mac has had a useful clipboard since day one.
--
+-------------------+----------------------------+---------------------------+
| JERRY J. SHEKHEL  | Molecular Simulations Inc. | Time just fades the pages |
| Drummers do it... |     Burlington, MA USA     | in my book of memories.   |
|    ... In rhythm! |        jerry@msi.com       |         -- Guns N' Roses  |
+-------------------+----------------------------+---------------------------+
Xref: sparky comp.sys.amiga.advocacy:32460 comp.sys.amiga.misc:19278
From: TomK@cup.portal.com (Tom R Krotchko)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy,comp.sys.amiga.misc
Subject: Re: Byte A4000/A3000T-040 Review
Date: Thu, 31 Dec 92 18:46:03 PST
Organization: The Portal System (TM)
  <1992Dec28.004411.11737@serval.net.wsu.edu> <BzyrAo.FEp@NeoSoft.com>
  <1992Dec29.205344.601716@sue.cc.uregina.ca> <72613@cup.portal.com>
  <58153@dime.cs.umass.edu>

>>The book DOES NOT mention the warranty being voided.
>
>        Maybe so, but try calling Commodore sometime and mentioning that you
>have opened up your Amiga.  I know someone who mentioned this fact to
>Commodore employee, and this person was immediately informed that this
>action voided the warranty.  Thankfully, my friend's telephone call was
>anonymous, so the warranty was not actually voided.

Well, the miscellaneous ramblings of a lone Commodore employee on the
phone hardly constitute policy (and if that sounds harsh, its meant
to be; some employees have no concept they're representing their
employer when they're on the phone).  As far as I'm concerned, the
policy about opening the 4000 is clearly stated in the owners manual.

TomK@cup.portal.com
Tom Krotchko
Xref: sparky comp.sys.amiga.advocacy:32054 comp.sys.amiga.games:17181
From: colas@opossum.inria.fr (Colas Nahaboo)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy,comp.sys.amiga.games
Subject: Re: request for "signatures" on petition to SSI
Date: 23 Dec 92 13:20:09 GMT
Followup-To: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
Organization: Koala Project, Bull Research France

In article <1992Dec23.011730.1@fnalo.fnal.gov>, traynor@fnalo.fnal.gov writes:
> 	I also am soliciting "signatures" for the petition below,
> to be sent to SSI (if anyone has any better ideas on the wording or actions
> in general please e-mail me directly).

mmm... perhaps they are right in not porting their games.
perhaps it would be better to contact amiga-capable software houses and suggest
them to contact SSI to do the port...

Look at wing commander, falcon, and many others... They were good ports on the
ami because it is not the original PC house which did the conversion, but an
amiga-dedicated team.

If SSI ports games in a crappy way, it won't sell, so it is not worth it.

-- 
Colas Nahaboo, colas@sa.inria.fr, Bull Research Koala proj. Wool, Gwm, KoalaBus
Pho:(33) 93.65.77.70(.66 Fax), INRIA, B.P.93 - 06902 Sophia Antipolis, FRANCE.
From: peterk@cbmger.de.so.commodore.com (Dr Peter Kittel Germany)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
Subject: Re: Does reading this group make you depressed? The story of a victim.
Date: 30 Dec 92 16:29:50 GMT
Reply-To: peterk@cbmger.de.so.commodore.com (Dr Peter Kittel Germany)
Organization: Commodore Germany

In article <C022t9.B9G@news.iastate.edu> barrett@iastate.edu (Marc N. Barrett) writes:
 >In article <29DEC199218114334@cs.umass.edu> atkin@cs.umass.edu (Marc Atkin) writes:
 >>
 >>Fact is that the Amiga is very well-known in Europe
 >
 >   The fact also is that many Amiga owners in the U.S. don't give a rip about
 >Europe, Bosnia, or Swaziland.  If the Amiga is not strong here, support is not 
 >available here, and hardware and software are not available here.  These are
 >enough reasons to dissuade a person from ever getting another Amiga.
                             ^^^^^^^^
You could *perhaps* say "a US person", but you always extend your negative
opinions as if this would be valid for the whole world! THERE IS LIFE
OUTSIDE IOWA, AND EVEN OUTSIDE USA!!! And much more life with the respect
of the Amiga, let me tell you.

-- 
Best regards, Dr. Peter Kittel  // E-Mail to \\  Only my personal opinions...
Commodore Frankfurt, Germany  \X/ {uunet|pyramid|rutgers}!cbmvax!cbmger!peterk
Wer's nicht kann, soll's bleiben klopfen oder Steine lassen!
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
From: barrett@iastate.edu (Marc N. Barrett)
Subject: Re: A4000 or NOT
Organization: Iowa State University, Ames, IA
Date: Wed, 23 Dec 1992 00:13:16 GMT

In article <1992Dec22.232637.21526@klaava.Helsinki.FI> vmkiili@klaava.Helsinki.FI (Ville-Matti Kiili) writes:
>Adam Benjamin (benjamin@zds-oem.zds.com) wrote:
>
>> was full of mercury... anyway,  What did (does?) PET stand for? anything?
>> is it Pretty Electronic Thing?  Programable Electronics & Transistors?
>
>Peddle's Ego Trip. :) Too bad I can't remember who Peddle was...

   He designed the 6502 and the Commodore PET.  

---
| Marc Barrett -MB-  |  email: barrett@iastate.edu
--------------------------------------------------
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy,comp.sys.amiga.misc
From: das9674@usl.edu (Stephenson Daniel A)
Subject: Re: Don't let the Amiga Die (Part II)!!!
Organization: University of Southwestern Louisiana
Date: Thu, 24 Dec 1992 19:10:50 GMT

In article <BzrLFH.7wB@NeoSoft.com> peter@NeoSoft.com (Peter da Silva) writes:
>
>Let's see, to run OS/2 you need:
>
>	a hard drive that by itself costs more than an Amiga.
What Amiga is that?
>	8MB of RAM that cost more than an Amiga.
What AMiga is that?
>	an 80486 that costs more than an Amiga.
Not only false, but what Amigais that?
>	a monitor that costs more than an Amiga.
False, but what AMiga is that?
>	and a BIG case an power supply. At least that's cheap.
>
>Hasn't it occurred to you that you're talking about a computer that costs
>several times what our Amigas cost... and you have to really scrape to find
>advantages. There's something wrong with this picture.

Do you REALLY suggest that one could get *4* Amiga for the price of an 
OS/2 machine?  Peter, the AMiga you suggest is one with no HD and no
monitor- *NOT* a useful machine.  Yet you claim for the cost of items on the
OS/2 machine that are NOT included in your hypothetical Amiga, the WHOLE
Amiga could be gotten.  Get real.

You're exaggerating the HD size needed by OS/2, and the processor, and the
monitor.  The RAM is right, though.

But don't you dare pretend that 4 crippled Amigas with no monitors and no 
harddrives in any way with one 486+8megs RAM+Multisync+200meg HD+OS/2 machine.

>Peter da Silva.  <peter@sugar.neosoft.com>.
--
Dan Stephenson                                         das9674@usl.edu  
"Yes Dan, I have heard of Ultima Underworld.  From my point of view it
 appears to be a rather large stick which you seem to be using to beat
 everbody in this group with." -Mark Steyn, comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy