HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
From: brownt@seq.uncwil.edu (brown todd francis)
Subject: Re: WILD
Organization: Univ. of North Carolina @ Wilmington
Date: Mon, 21 Dec 1992 14:21:07 GMT

Tarzan writes:


>>
>>Anyway, by using the Tibetan technique of visualizing a 
>>concrete form, I was able to follow this form back into the 
>>dream.  It was incredible and I really feel like I can do 
>>this anytime I want to now.  Has anyone else been working with
>>this technique?
>>
>>Michael J Shea
>>brownt@seq.uncwil.edu
>>
>>

>Michael,   what is this concrete form technique?


Actually, the Tibetan techique is much more elaborate than what
I did to consciously re-enter the lucid dream.  What I did was to
visualize a concrete object (you could use anything) about a foot
in front of my closed eyes.  

For a little more background, after reading some advice on the net
I found myself having just awakened from a dream early on morning.
It is most important to be in this state of hypnagogia.  I lifted
my hand slowly above my head and slowly opened my groggy eyes.  I
briefly memorized the outline of my hand, then closed my eyes and
settled down into a comfortable sleeping position.  I then re-created
the visualization of my hand in front of my now closed eyes as I
prepared to go back to sleep.  A part of me stayed very much conscious
as I watched the form of my hand materialize and the begin to
metamorphosize - changing first into a block, then a cross and finally
into a nail or stake.  At each change, the form in front of my closed
eyes moved farther away.  I could see this form very clearly as I
moved it around and rotated it in three dimensions.  Suddenly, the form
dissipated as the previous dream scene appears before my eyes.  I
find myself back in the exact same dream as before, however this time
fully conscious that this was a dream, ie. fully lucid.  This was the
first time I was able to consciously re-enter the exact same dream.

Michael Shea (brownt@seq.uncwil.edu)

For details on the more elaborate Tibetan "practice of the night" see
this new book:

_Dream Yoga and the Practice of Natural Light_ by Namkhai Norbu
available from Snow Lion Press, PO Box 6483, Ithaca NY 14851 USA


Newsgroups: alt.dreams
From: katherim@fraser.sfu.ca (Katherine Merle Mason)
Subject: Re: Convincing characters you're dreaming.
Organization: Simon Fraser University, Burnaby, B.C., Canada
Date: Sun, 27 Dec 1992 19:22:20 GMT

cthomas@npal.rn.com writes:

>In article <gj156879.724633034@cunews>, gj156879@alfred.carleton.ca ( gj student 156879) writes:
>> Recently while lucid, a friend of mine in the dream said "This isn't a
>> dream!"  I was annoyed.  It was too a dream.  I grabbed the end of his
>> nose and stretched it out about a foot, as if it were rubber, and then
>> it snapped back into place.
>>  
>> "Ok, it's a dream," my friend admits.
>>  
>>           Guess I told him.
>>  
>>                               Nik

>I to had a dream that was similar to this.  I was talking to a girl and
>trying to convince her that this was a dream.  To prove my point I put my
>hand through a wall.  She tried it but it was solid for her.  I told
>her that this was because she was a dream character.  Since she was
>part of the dream then everything in it was as real to her as my 'real'
>world is for me.  
>	The interesting thing though is that I tried to further prove my
>point by putting my hand through her, however she was perfectly solid to me
>and even though I was lucid dreaming I could not will her to not be solid.

>					CHUCKBILL

In the first truly lucid dream I ever had, I was on a bus.  I was so 
excited about being lucid, I turned to the people next to me and told
them "I'm having a lucid dream, isn't this great?"  They just gave me
a stupid smile.  I woke up shortly after.

Katherine Merle Mason
Ne Oublie...
From: alix@iastate.edu (L.A. Melloy)
Subject: BODY POSITION and SLEEP PARALYSIS
Organization: Iowa State University, Ames IA
Date: Wed, 23 Dec 1992 05:50:05 GMT

I've missed part of this thread, but what is everyone talking about?

(I can hear the groans already...:-)

Why I ask is the sleep paralysis part.  If it is what it sounds like it is,
I would like to ask those more knowledgeable then myself (namely the net), 
about some "sleep paralysis" occurences I may or may not have had myself.

There has been several times in the last 5 or 6 years where a strange lethargy
spread over me.  I have felt no desire to move (in fact, I don't think I COULD)
and I SWEAR my heart beat slowed immensely, but I wasn't falling asleep.  I
felt light-headed.  I never let it go very far, because I was scared to death
it was something more serious (I've heard stories of people willing themselves
dead, and darn it, if it didn't feel that way to me).  It took an incredible
amount of will to force myself to move, and my heart to speed up again.  Is
this what sleep paralysis is, or the beginning of an OBE?  I don't know much
about either, so any help would be appreciated.

-- 
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Leigh Ann Melloy  |  "I would like us to come together and build......
alix@iastate.edu  |                a chopstick." - From the movie _Mr._Baseball
===============================================================================
Newsgroups: alt.dreams
From: miket@hermes.tcs.com (Michael Turner nmscore Assoc.)
Subject: Re: Don't interrupt me you dream character!
Organization: Teknekron Communications Inc.
Date: Mon, 28 Dec 1992 20:11:43 GMT

In article <gj156879.725500532@cunews> gj156879@alfred.carleton.ca ( gj student 156879) writes:
>Interesting idea, Michael... 
> 
>Re: only one character at a time can control the speech centers.
> 
>....
>It would be interesting to try and set up a lucid dream experiment
>where you interrupt a dream character or talk at the same time as they
>do...  (Still trying to remember if I've been in either of those
>situations...)

Another possible experiment: have people who are bilingual
make a point of speaking only in their weaker language when
they talk to dream personalities in lucid dreams, while prompting
the dream personalities to respond in detail in their stronger
language.

This might have the effect of reversing the usual linguistic-
competence asymmetry in dreams, where the dream ego is more
coherent and articulate than other dream personalities.  Giving
dream personalities the of the brain's main speech centers might 
enable them to say things that they can't say very easily now.
That's my hypothesis, anyway.  Who knows what other interesting
things might be discovered?

I've heard that many people who are bilingual also feel that they
have a kind of personality split -- i.e., they feel like a slightly
different person when they are speaking their second language.
This might make them ideal subjects for dream-personality
personality research.  

(Feel like a guinea-pig yet, Maiko?)
---
Michael Turner
From: agwing@picasso.ocis.temple.edu (Andrew Wing)
Newsgroups: alt.dreams
Subject: Recalling past dreams
Date: 2 Jan 93 05:07:29 GMT
Organization: Temple University
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1 PL8]

Hi,

	I'm new to this group and was wondering...  How do you recall past
dreams that you've 'forgotten'?  I'm only capable of doing this as I fall
asleep or "REM crash" during the day.  Most of my dreams are linked in a set
of geographical entities which are usually gross distortions of real world
locations.  You'll see this in my next posting.  Thoughts?

		Andy Wing

--
v2002a@vm.temple.edu     (preferred)
v2002a%templevm.bitnet@pucc.princeton.edu
agwing@picasso.ocis.temple.edu    (last resort)

Any disclaimer issued by me is subject to change without notice
From: joak@ocf.berkeley.edu (Jonathan A. Kung)
Newsgroups: alt.dreams
Subject: Literacy in dreams
Date: 2 Jan 1993 03:36:07 GMT
Organization: U.C. Berkeley Open Computing Facility
NNTP-Posting-Host: locusts.berkeley.edu

Is there any truth to what Batman:The Animated Series stated
about any reading done in dreams is really just looking at a
bunch of gibberish?

I'm not so sure, because I am positive that I have read well-formed
words and sentences while dreaming...

-Jon Kung
Newsgroups: alt.dreams
From: pv@gagme.chi.il.us (Paul Vader)
Subject: Re: What can't you dream about?
Originator: pv@gagme
Organization: Inline Software Creations
Date: Tue, 29 Dec 1992 18:57:08 GMT

Phillip Eastham writes:
>On the local radio station they have this thing where people call in and
>have to answer 5 questions wrongly.
>
Wha? Is this something along the lines of "Who's buried in Grant's
tomb?" I guess it's best not to question the logic of DJ bits.

>The DJ's have this one question they use to get rid of smart-arses.
>
>"Name something you can't dream about?"
>
>So far no-one has come up with an answer.
Considering that they're supposed to answer wrong I can't see how this
would be a hard question. But how's this for a straight answer -- Dreaming
that you fall into a deep, dreamless sleep? So there.

You owe me half of any winnings. You can keep the cheap jackets and 
tee-shirts with the station logo on them. PV
-- 
Paul Vader            systems analyst, hell's cavenewt, rollerblader,
pv@gagme.chi.il.us    FOAF, smartass liberal democrat
From: melissa@radio.wkar.msu.edu (Melissa Ingells)
Newsgroups: alt.dreams
Subject: Re: SUNSHINE IN DREAMS ?
Date: 3 Jan 93 21:03:49 GMT
Organization: Broadcasting Services, Michigan State University
NNTP-Posting-Host: prentice.wkar.msu.edu

In article <1993Jan3.032012.1@climat.geology.yale.edu> zhang@climat.geology.yale.edu writes:
>From: zhang@climat.geology.yale.edu
>Subject: SUNSHINE IN DREAMS ?
>Date: 3 Jan 93 03:20:12 EDT
>
>	With only one exception, there is never sunshine in my dreams, and 
>the milieu is always very dark, as if it were perpetual dusk, or the sky were
>permanently overcast, regardless of the nature (happy or sad or whatever) 
>of the dreams. 
>
>	Does this imply anything? Is this the usual case in a dream?
>
>
>							Taiping Zhang

HELLO, I'M GOING TO TRY TO REPLY AGAIN, I DID IT WRONG THE LAST TIME.  
APOLOGIES IF I MESS UP...this is a VERY outside guess...but i seem to 
remember many of my dreams as a child being like that, an almost sooty 
darknes that you seem to always be reaching through...i'm going to hazard 
that maybe you aren't very comfortable with your dreams yet, since i don't 
seem to remember sunshine in mine either until i got older and dreams in 
general seemed less threatening, less the realm of monsters and more the 
realm of some pretty interesting stuff.  then again, i really have to think 
hard to remember the dreams in which there has been a great deal of 
sunshine..i tend to have a lot of sunset dreams, but i do remember one in 
which the sun was quite visible at about 10 in the morning...so it is a 
somewhat rare occurance in mine as well, although mine usually aren't as 
dark as you say yours are.

I hope this gets to you, as I am somewhat computer-stupid.  anyway, it's an 
outside guess, and i wouldn't worry about it in terms of indicating anything 
negative psychologically...

cheers.  msi
Newsgroups: alt.dreams
From: wfk@cellar.org (William F. Kershner)
Newsgroups: alt.dreams
Subject: Bill Clinton and Gerald Ford
Date: 23 Dec 92 14:45:29 GMT
Organization: The Cellar BBS and public access system

Any interpretations of a dream in which I was invited to the White House for
dinner or something and President Ford was there (in 1992) writing a speech.
As I entered the office, he welcomed me and had me help him in writing.  It
was a speech on energy conservation.  After we completed the document, I was
going to be leaving for the dinner and I remembered I should have brought my
camera.  Ford was now ignoring me as I searched my coat pockets for a camera
or something.  Then, in walks Bill Clinton.  His manner (in the dream)
reminds me of a good friend of mine.  He slaps me on the back, and says
stuff like "how the hell are you?!"  Then he whips out this HUGE Polaroid
camera and starts snapping pictures of EVERYTHING.  he went NUTS with that
thing!  Well, at the end of the dream, I remember feeling as if my wingtips
weren't polished, and I had missed a loop on my pants when putting my belt
on that morning.  It didn't really bother me, but these minor inadequacies
were noticed... and that's when I woke up.   
________________________________________
William F. Kershner
wfk%cellar@tredysvr.tredydev.unisys.com
wfk@cellar.org
----------------------------------------
From: Peter_Mcnamee@kumear.apana.org.au (Peter Mcnamee)
Newsgroups: alt.dreams
Subject: new experiment
Distribution: world
Date: 20 Dec 92 14:22:28 EST
Organization: The DUNGEON BBS

I am reading about the experiment with the ship...on Dec 20!!  The day the
thing finished!!  ARGH!

Will there be another one?  Or is the ship going to be ongoing?

cheers,
            ...pEtE...{#->

-- Via DLG Pro v0.992

Newsgroups: alt.dreams
From: ed@cwis.unomaha.edu (Ether Scrapelust)
Subject: Re: B&W and Cartoon Animation Dreams
Organization: University of Nebraska at Omaha
Date: Mon, 21 Dec 1992 11:02:39 GMT

cthomas@npal.rn.com writes:
>I am just interested to know if anyone has ever had dreams in wich there
>vision was altered to something like Black and White or all cartoon animation.

Last night, in fact.  It wasn't really my vision, though.  I was
watching a black and white animated film on television.  The tv screen,
though, did encompass my entire "viewpoint" during those segments of the
dream.  The entire dream took up four pages in my journal, which is a
standard sized college ruled notebook. 

I vaguely remember having other dreams, very rarely, that consisted of
"cartoonlike" vision.
 
...e
 
--
::  ::  ::  ::  ::  ::  ::  ::  ::  ::  ::  ::  ::  ::|   ed   |  death 
  ::  ::  ::  ::  ::  ::  ::  ::  ::  ::  ::  ::  ::  |  @cwis |  comes 
::  ::  ::  ::  ::  ::  ::  ::  ::  ::  ::  ::  ::  ::|.unomaha|    too 
  ::  ::  ::  ::  ::  ::  ::  ::  ::  ::  ::  ::  ::  |  .edu  |   soon
From: oly@emerson.physics.ubc.ca
Newsgroups: alt.dreams
Subject: floatation tanks
Date: 28 Dec 1992 19:44:12 GMT
Organization: The University of British Columbia
Distribution: world
Reply-To: oly@emerson.physics.ubc.ca
NNTP-Posting-Host: emerson.physics.ubc.ca

Hello everyone,
		Does anyone have any info regarding floatation tanks, things  
like construction, prefab units for sale, other peoples experiences etc.  
Basically any info at all.


________________________________________________________
B.Olav Anderson
CyberSurfer
NeXT Mail Accepted--> e-mail oly@emerson.physics.ubc.ca

"The Years Teach Much What The Days Never Know"
	R.W.Emerson
	
"The Essence of Being is Becoming"
	Heraclitus

"How can a man be weak who dares to be at all?"
	H.D.Thoreau
From: Peter_Mcnamee@kumear.apana.org.au (Peter Mcnamee)
Newsgroups: alt.dreams
Subject: Re: Dream Machine
Distribution: world
Date: 23 Dec 92 19:57:21 EST
Organization: The DUNGEON BBS

In a message dated Wed 23 Dec 92  8:52, Cfs2b@fermi.clas.virginia.edu (chun
wrote:

 C>    machine which can help people falling asleep and even "select" 
 C>    what types of dream they want to have. I don't know is that true 
 C>    or not.  If anyone knows something more about it, please email 
 C>    to me or post on the net.  Thanks in advance.

I have a book here that might be interesting to you...It's called, The
Dream Machine and it's written by a Dr Keith Hearne (Acquarian Press,
1990).  Hope this helps.

cheers,
            ...pEtE...{#->

PS..the book is about lucid dreaming, and the different methods that some
technologies have used to try and control them.  Might give you a base to
go on if nothing else.

-- Via DLG Pro v0.992
From: Peter_Mcnamee@kumear.apana.org.au (Peter Mcnamee)
Newsgroups: alt.dreams
Subject: Re: Convincing characters you're dreaming.
Distribution: world
Date: 23 Dec 92 19:50:03 EST
Organization: The DUNGEON BBS

In a message dated Wed 23 Dec 92  8:52, Abulsari@abo.fi (a. Bulsari) wrote:

 AB> I think I will ask other people next time if they are dreaming too.

You might be suprised to find that your sharing a dream with someone from
reality side.  What a dream to have!!!

cheers,
              ...pEtE...{#->

-- Via DLG Pro v0.992
From: Peter_Mcnamee@kumear.apana.org.au (Peter Mcnamee)
Newsgroups: alt.dreams
Subject: Re: BODY POSITION
Distribution: world
Date: 23 Dec 92 20:00:31 EST
Organization: The DUNGEON BBS

In a message dated Wed 23 Dec 92  8:52, Bdd@onion.eng.hou.compaq.com (bruce
wrote:

 B> and IMHO, lucid dreams & "sleep paralysis" are stages in the process;
 B> for
 B> most, sleep overtakes the person and normal (or lucid) dreaming begins

I'll concure (for now :) with this statement.  Also IMHO, OOBE's are made
that much easier, although still a challenge, when approached from within a
lucid dream.

cheers,
             ...pEtE...{#->

-- Via DLG Pro v0.992

Newsgroups: alt.dreams
From: aec1@crux2.cit.cornell.edu (Allen Chen)
Subject: Dream'92 Experiment [Repost]
Organization: Cornell Information Technologies
Date: 23 Dec 92 20:42:32 GMT


Hello, all!  I hope everyone is enjoying the holidays.  Here is a repost
of the Dream'92 instructions for those who have missed it.  Remember,
the deadline is now JANUARY 20, 1993!!  Please forward any questions to
me at aec1@cornell.edu

----REPOST----
Attempt to have a lucid dream any time (as often as possible)
between the dates of Friday, Dec. 4 and **WEDNESDAY, JAN. 20**.  When
you find yourself lucid dreaming, use any means possible to find
the scenario described below.  Attempt to interact with others there,
and look for "personal objects" that others may have left.  Try to
leave a personal object of your own for others to find.  

You are free to report to the Net that you made it to the Meeting
Place in your dreams, but please do not post any details about the
dream until the experiment is over.  Send email to our Third Person
(who prefers to be called a "judge" -- I don't know why, ask him) :)
containing all the details you can remember from the dream, especially
any personal objects you found/left.  He will save & post the messages
after the experiment, and if he sees possible correlations, he may 
write back, asking specific questions about what you saw/left/did...
(For example, if you left your wallet, he might ask for a description
of the wallet & it's contents.  Another person who said they found
a wallet would also be asked to give a description of the wallet & its
contents...)

Our Third Person/Judge/(whatever you want to call him) is
Allen Chen
aec1@cornell.edu

The description of the dreamscape is as follows:
*************************************************************************

Vehicle:  A large white cruiser ship with the words "S.S. Dreamers"
in large black letters on both sides, and the back.  Since it is a boat,
it can "sail" through any body of water (or anywhere else, depending on
how bizarre some of your dreams can get!) :)  The interior of the ship
has three decks, one for living quarters, one with a kitchen & a large hall 
for meals (and laden with lots of delicious food, as all cruise ships always
are!) :),  plus other rooms, including a game room, etc., and an
upper deck with "outdoor" games (shuffleboard, etc.), including a
swimming pool and other recreational activities.  All dreamers are welcome
to enjoy all of the ship's facilities, and they are invited to interact with
anyone else on the ship, and they may also look at and/or leave
objects by the swimming pool or in the dining room...



Newsgroups: alt.dreams
From: miket@hermes.tcs.com (Michael Turner nmscore Assoc.)
Subject: Re: You're just a dream character.
Organization: Teknekron Communications Inc.
Date: Sat, 26 Dec 1992 23:49:11 GMT

In article <gj156879.725334045@cunews> gj156879@alfred.carleton.ca ( gj student 156879) writes:
>Recently, I summoned a fictional character that I made up, into a
>dream.  I went lucid, yelled "MOE!" (his name) and he flew down and
>appeared....
> 
>By the way, just to tantalize you all with high weirdness, Moe is a
>quadrapalegic angel I'm trying to work a novel around.
> 
>                                        Nik

Uh, wouldn't that be "hexaplegic", given that angels reputedly have wings?
Or do Moe's wings work, and nothing else?  What a great metaphor for
dreaming!

More seriously:

As for your question of whether there is only so much dream-consciousness
to distribute between dream characters (including your dream-ego): that
might be, but I've wondered if looking for some kind of "conservation 
principle" of consciousness is that useful, given how much consciousness
appears to fluctuate even during waking.  But again, this fluctuation might
be in the border between introspectively-obvious consciousness and the
so-called "sub-conscious", rather than in consciousness per se, and in
that case dream characters might be simply be availing themselves of the 
"sub-consciousness" part of a relatively constant supply.

Something that might be more easily tested is how shareable certain basic
faculties are.  Speech is an example.  In my dreams, I often remember saying
something to communicate, more often remember sort of thinking something,
and having other dream characters respond either vocally or (more often)
telepathically.  However I can't remember one single incident in which I
was vocal and the *vocally* *interrupted* by a dream character.  That
suggests to me that while consciousness might be split and shared out
among the denizens of a dream, the speech centers can only be controlled
by one character at a time.

The impression that consciousness is limited in how many characters it
can be spread over could, in this theory, be an artifact of the limited
number of "single-user" faculties that dream characters can control.
---
Michael Turner
mike@tcs.com
From: Peter_Mcnamee@kumear.apana.org.au (Peter Mcnamee)
Newsgroups: alt.dreams
Subject: Re: Some Comments/Questions
Distribution: world
Date: 29 Dec 92 16:40:34 EST
Organization: The DUNGEON BBS

In a message dated Mon 28 Dec 92 23:29, Mcovingt@sdcc13.ucsd.edu (maiko Cov
wrote:

 MC> speaking Japanese (or the other way round). If there are other
 MC> bilingual dreamers out there... does this happen with your dreams
 MC> too, or do you tend to stick to one language for one dream? Do people
 MC> speak the 'correct' language in your dreams?

I mainly dream in English as that's the only spoken language I know (I also
know the deaf Sign Language).  However, I usually don't have any trouble
understanding people no matter how they communicate.  Sort of "Dream
Knowledge".

 MC> this? Unfortunately I never seem to remember to look at the signs
 MC> twice to see if they change. ^_^

Reading something twice is a popular "Reality Check" for lucid dreaming. 
If something reads different the second time, it's a fair bet that your
dreaming :)



-- Via DLG Pro v0.992
From: Phillip_Eastham@kumear.apana.org.au (Phillip Eastham)
Newsgroups: alt.dreams
Subject: Re: What can't you dream about?
Distribution: world
Date: 31 Dec 92 20:37:00 EST
Organization: The DUNGEON BBS

In a message dated Thu  1 Jan 93 16:58, Pv@gagme.chi.il.us (paul Vader)
wrote:

 PV> would be a hard question. But how's this for a straight answer --
 PV> Dreaming that you fall into a deep, dreamless sleep? So there.

Why couldn't you dream about this? You start a dream in which you go to bed
and fall into a deep dreamless sleep. People can dream about having a
dream, so why not dream about not having a dream?

-- Via DLG Pro v0.992

This message proudly bought to you by:

                               phillip_eastham@kumear.apana.org.au