HDTenEightyP/NetNews huggingface dataset:
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
Subject: Re: Conversion Question
From: Yaakov Kayman <YZKCU@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Date: Friday, 13 Nov 1992 12:01:06 EST
Organization: City University of New York/ University Computer Center

In article <97353@netnews.upenn.edu>, weemba@sagi.wistar.upenn.edu (Matthew P
Wiener) says:
>
>In article <92317.122453YZKCU@CUNYVM.BITNET>, YZKCU@CUNYVM (Yaakov Kayman)
>writes:
(probably too much already! -- YK)
>
>A kosher witness is a kosher witness, and is defined by halakha, not
>by what appears logical at the moment.  Orthodoxy is "stuck" with a
>definition of kosher witness that has numerous strange things in it.
>
>The role of the witness is not to assure anything, but to be a witness.
>If he eats swordfish, gelatin, McDonald's french fries, or drinks any
>US wine, but does nothing else that Orthodoxy can criticize, he is, I've
>heard, a kosher witness.  The same if he bikes to shul on Shabbos.

It appears that only one of us, i.e., you, was talking about witnesses.
I was referring to who would be allowed to sit as a dayyan (rabbinical
judge) in a beit din performing an actual conversion. Unobservant wit-
nesses, btw, can also prove problematical, but that's a different matter.

>>How then could ANY Orthodox rabbi worthy of the name accept Conservative
>>conversions as valid?
>
>In general, he can't.  In particular cases, the halakha allows for some
>remote possibilities.
>
>>Though it is, of course, hypothetically possible that three members of
>>the Conservative clergy can be found who [meet O kashrus for witnessing.]
>
>It's not so hypothetical.

Again, I speak of rabbinical JUDGES, not witnesses. I still stand by my
previous words that one who himself does not unconditionally accept the
ultimate authority of G-d as given us in His Torah (both Written and
Oral, the two parts of one whole) cannot be a dayyan.

>-Matthew P Wiener (weemba@sagi.wistar.upenn.edu)

Yaakov K.
--------
Yaakov Kayman      (212) 903-3666       City University of New York

BITNET:   YZKCU@CUNYVM        "Lucky is the shepherd, and lucky his flock
Internet: YZKCU@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU     about whom the wolves complain"
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
From: warren@nysernet.org (Warren Burstein)
Subject: Re: Pidyon ha'Ben
Reply-To: warren@nysernet.org
Organization: Mail to News Gateway at Wang Labs
Date: Wed, 11 Nov 1992 09:03:31 GMT
Keywords: pidyon haben what when why?

In <BxHG9C.tq@ux1.cso.uiuc.edu> henny@uieea.ece.uiuc.edu (Henny Graupe) writes:

>I am a bit confused about an event that is supposed to occur shortly
>after the birth of a male (only?) child.  What exactly is a
>Pidyon ha'Ben?  When does it occur, is it a certain number of days
>after a birth, or is it a Saturday afterwards?  Finally what is
>the reason for it?

A Pidyon HaBen (Redemption of the son - that's redepmtion the way you
redeem coupons, not a synonym for salvation) takes place thirty days
after the birth of a firstborn male son.  If the firstborn is female,
no PHB is performed for any later son.  If it wasn't performed on the
correct day, it may be performed afterwards.

It could not happen on Shabbat, as it involves money, which may not be
done on Shabbat.  If the day falls on Shabbat, it is delayed.  This is
not the case with circumcision - if a circumcision (only if it is
performed on the eighth day) falls on Shabbat it is done on Shabbat.

It's only done for a mother's firstborn son, that is, if the mother
has previously given birth but it's the father's firstborn, it's not done,
but if it's the mother's firstborn but the father has previously
fathered children, it is done.  I believe that a stillbirth may also
count as a "firstbirth", meaning that if the next pregnancy results in
a live son, he's not a firstborn, but this depends, I think, on how
developed the fetus is.

If either of the parents is a Cohen or a Levi, it's not done.

It consists of a meal and a short ceremony (which can be found in a
Siddur) in which the father gives the Cohen five shekels (the shekel
which was used at the time the Torah was given, not the little Israeli
coins which are scattered all over my desk (I sometimes find one
inside the computer when I open it up ...) that say "1 new shekel" on
them).  I think that in practice, five coins, preferably silver, are
used (I'd guess they have to have at least as much silver as the
original shekel).  While the money becomes the Cohen's property, I
know one has a set of five coins which he gives to the father who
gives them back to him, so he doesn't actually make any money (and in
fact lost money buying five coins which he doesn't ever expect to
resell).

I think that a mint in Israel produced silver coins for this
purpose, but I don't know what coins he uses.  My mother told me that
at mine, she used five silver dollars, which were still in circulation
in the U.S. at the time (from the way she told the story it sounds
like they were difficult to find) which she polished and was surprized
when they were not returned to her.

This practice is found in the Torah.  Exodus 13:13 commands redeeming
firstborn sons, Numbers 3:44-51 mentions the sum of 5 shekels.
-- 
/|/-\/-\          Adif tzav pinui metzav shmoneh.
 |__/__/_/    
 |warren@     
/ nysernet.org 			    Jerusalem
From: goldberg@techunix.technion.ac.il (Jacques Goldberg)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
Subject: Re: The Only Whole Heart is a Broken One
Keywords: hassidic masters
Date: 6 Nov 92 07:17:20 GMT
Article-I.D.: techunix.goldberg.721034240
Organization: Technion, Israel Institute of Technology

rwerman@vms.huji.ac.il (ROBERT WERMAN) writes:

>Which Hassidic rebbe is responsible for "The only whole
>heart is a broken one?"

>I have heard the saying attributed to both NaHman of
>Bratslav and MenaHem Mendl of Kotsk.  Does anyone
>know and give a source reference?
   I have seen it attributed to the Kotzker, perhaps he had heard it himself,
   the Kotzker has left no book, what we know is from quotes by his students,
   such as the Gerrer (RI"M). Many of the Kotzker's quotes by the RI"M have
   in fact been quoted by the RI"M's students and students of students. The
   book HIDUSHEY HARI"M 'AL HATORAH contains many quotes by the RI"M with
   the source, which you cannot find for example in SFATH EMETH, SIFTEY 
   ZADDIQ, SIFTEY AVRAHAM, respectively written by or compiled after death from
   his grandson and two of his nephews. (I guess that very few people will know
   SIFTEY AVRAHAM, it is purely halachic/responsa).
>Thanks...from a misnaged.
   The following remark is not directed against you, Robert, on the contrary.
   But because I believe that it is in the Kotzker/RI"M style, short and aimed
   at making people think, I placed this caveat, to prevent misunderstanding.
   The ellipsis also includes obvious variants!

   If all mitnagdim could be at least as mitnagdim as the Kotzker or the
   RI"M....  

Shabbath Shalom - Yaaqov

>__Bob Werman    rwerman@hujivms.bitnet    rwerman@vms.huji.ac.il
>Jerusalem
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
From: shdan@tudorct.com (Dan Shimoff)
Subject: Re: Pidyon ha'Ben
Keywords: pidyon haben what when why?
Organization: Tudor Investment Corporation, CT
Date: Wed, 11 Nov 1992 13:33:24 GMT

In article <1992Nov11.010205.20884@netcom.com> strnlght@netcom.com (David Sternlight) writes:
>
>Is there a remedy for a father who fails to perform Pidyon ha'Ben when
>his child is a baby, if the child is now grown up and married, and has
>not entered the religious professions? Is there a remedy for the child?
>
>What is the halachic position when the family are Yisroel?
>
>-- 
>David Sternlight
>(pgp 2.0 and ripem public keys available on request)
>


I know someone who after becoming a chozer biteshuva, realized that he 
did not have a pidyon haben.  No problems with the bris, just the PH.
Anyway, his father was still alive so they just did it a little later,
some 13 years later.  No big deal.

I would assume the halachot are the same WRT method and practice, no matter
when it is done, but I could be very wrong.  CYLOR.

-- 
Dan Shimoff           
Phone: (212) 602-6798  
Address: shdan@tudor.com
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: amarkel@encore.com (Arieh Markel)
Subject: Re: Autopsy - Kahane and Rosenbaum
Organization: Encore Computer Corporation
Date: Tue, 10 Nov 1992 16:07:32 GMT

andy <2893684@QUCDN.QueensU.CA> writes:

>In article <1992Nov09.103259.23950@ncrcae.ColumbiaSC.NCR.COM>,
>nabil@ncrcol.ColumbiaSC.NCR.COM (Nabil Idriss) says:
>>
>>I have a feeling that the Kahane was assassinated by the Mossad and not
>>by an Arab. That is probably why there were no conviction in his case.
>>Does anybody agree?

I guess this one could be continued in "alt.conspiracy".
-- 
 Arieh Markel		  		        Tel: (305)-797-2403
 Encore Computer Corporation                    amarkel@encore.COM
 Optimizer & Instruction Scheduler Group        uunet!gould!amarkel
 Ft. Lauderdale, FL
From: weemba@sagi.wistar.upenn.edu (Matthew P Wiener)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
Subject: Re: book title:"Cholent"
Date: 12 Nov 92 21:09:50 GMT
Article-I.D.: netnews.97364
Reply-To: weemba@sagi.wistar.upenn.edu (Matthew P Wiener)
Organization: The Wistar Institute of Anatomy and Biology
In-reply-to: shimoff@umbc4.umbc.edu (Eliot Shimoff)

In article <1992Nov12.203039.5645@umbc3.umbc.edu>, shimoff@umbc4 (Eliot Shimoff) writes:
>	   Now I LOVE chocolate (wanted to say haTov v'ha'Metiv
>when Baby Ruth's got the OU), but I draw the line at chocolate
>cholent; it may be alliterative, but it sounds YUCKY!

A camp once made a hot dog cholent.  Hot dogs and baked beans, great,
right?  Wrong.  I had forgotten how much I hated boiled hot dogs like
my bubbie always made them.  Yuck.
-- 
-Matthew P Wiener (weemba@sagi.wistar.upenn.edu)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
From: ask@cbnews.cb.att.com (Arthur S. Kamlet)
Subject: Re: Pidyon ha'Ben
Organization: AT&T Bell Laboratories,  Columbus, Ohio
Date: Tue, 10 Nov 1992 20:56:17 GMT
Keywords: pidyon haben what when why?

In article <BxHG9C.tq@ux1.cso.uiuc.edu> henny@uieea.ece.uiuc.edu (Henny Graupe) writes:
>I am a bit confused about an event that is supposed to occur shortly
>after the birth of a male (only?) child.  What exactly is a
>Pidyon ha'Ben?  When does it occur, is it a certain number of days
>after a birth, or is it a Saturday afterwards?  Finally what is
>the reason for it?

Pidyon haBen is based on the Torah commandment to redeem our
first-born sons.

The first fruits and the first oif the harvest and the first born
animals and our first born sons belong to G-d.   Our sons are
redeemed in a ceremony, which acknowledges this fact.  A Kohen, a
decendent of Aaron the high priest,  acts as an agent for G-d,
and a father will redeem his first born son for the established
value of 5 shekalim

(Some use silver dollars, some use "real" silver dollars, some use
Israeli Shekalim, others use "Pidyon HaBen Shekalim" which the
government of Israel minted specifically for this use. Real Silver.
(Commercial:  I have some of these Pidyon HaBen Shekalim if
anyone is interested.)

It is ordinarily done on the 31st day but is delayed if that day
is a holiday or Shabbat.

It is a happy occasion, like a brit milah is a happy occasion.

It is not done if either parent is a Kohen or Levi.

There are quite a few legal qualifications concerning what
"first born son" means.

At a high level, it means the first son of the mother, who is also
her first child.  If there were previous pregnancies, however, the
rules become more complicated, and you should consult your rabbi.
If the birth is a C-section, most authorities hold this does not
constitute the "first born [ son ] of the womb" and so does not
require Pidyon haBen.
-- 
Art Kamlet  a_s_kamlet@att.com  AT&T Bell Laboratories, Columbus
From: khaikin@galley.cis.ohio-state.edu (dmitry khaikin)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
Subject: Re: sexism in Judaism
Date: 5 Nov 92 20:17:56 GMT
Article-I.D.: cis.1992Nov5.201756.24255
Organization: The Ohio State University Dept. of Computer and Info. Science

In article <1992Nov5.135226.22115@athena.mit.edu> terra@athena.mit.edu (Terra Incognita) writes:
>In article <1992Nov5.031930.25348@cis.ohio-state.edu> khaikin@neptune.cis.ohio-state.edu (dmitry khaikin) writes:
>>
>>I am not sure how to answer that. Maybe you could ask me specific
>>questions about it... Although, I believe in Hashem and am an Orthodox,
>>so my views would be Orthodox as well. I don't understand and don't know
>>a lot of things about the proper woman's position in society, but I do
>>accept those that I do know and that are in Torah. If I don't understand
>>something I ask and learn. That is one of the differences between Jews
>>and goyim: Jews never stop learning.
>
>Excuse me, but where is it written that you should insult the goyim
>like this?  Dima, I respect your opinions, and I understand that you
>have scriptural support for most of them, but that last comment there
>is really the limit.  Yes, Judaism places a higher value on education
>than many other cultures (one of it's biggest attractions for me, btw),
>but that doesn't mean that all goyim are ignorant or uninterested in
>learning things beyond their MBA.  Whether or not I ultimately end up
>converting, even if I remain a shikseh all my life, I never intend to
>stop learning.  Give the goyim some credit, they're part of G-d's
>creation too!
>
>Terra Incognita                             terra@athena.mit.edu


Well, something must me wrong with me. No matter how I try people say
that insult the others. I am sorry. Now, I have to explain what I meant.
I did not mean to say that goyim are stupid, what I tried to say and
maybe it is unclear that jews unlike goyim have a mitzva to never stop
learning. I never meant to insult goyim, there creation of G-d and it is
great that they exist! I do respect them!
It is also great that you want to never stop learning, I really respect
that. Doing more is always better then doing less. (Well, maybe not
always, but in this case...).

Thanks,
Dima
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
  "A word is worth one coin; silence is worth two."_____ The Talmud.
  "Silence is good everywhere, except in connection with Torah."____ The Zohar.
   khaikin@cis.ohio-state.edu (Dmitry Khaikin, Columbus Ohio, USA)
From: bc744@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Mark Ira Kaufman)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
Subject: Re: Einstein and Judaism
Date: 9 Nov 1992 16:22:19 GMT
Organization: Case Western Reserve University, Cleveland, Ohio (USA)
NNTP-Posting-Host: thor.ins.cwru.edu


   Einstein played an important role in my decision to know about
my Jewish heritage.  Although my mother was from a semi-observant
background, my father was a typical German reform Jew.  He had no
patience for religious ritual, and so I grew up without receiving
even an elementary Jewish education.
   One day I wandered into a Jewish bookstore.  I cannot describe
how out of place I felt.  But I was also curious.  History hinted
that I likely had ancestors that died rather than abandon any bit
of their Jewish heritage.  I thought that I owed it to them to at
least find out what they held to be so precious.  As I browsed, I
realized that most of the books were too specialized.  They dealt
with Talmud, or the Holocaust, or some other single facet of that
unbounded realm of Jewish existence.  Suddenly, luck tapped me on
the shoulder.  I found myself holding an anthology of essays from
a variety of Jewish authors.  It is called Modern Jewish Thought,
and is published by Shockton.
   It contains essays from as diverse a group of Jews as could be
assembled in one volume.  It contains essays from writers such as
Moses Mendelsohn, Mordichai Kaplan, Cynthia Ozick, and others.  A
wider range of Jewish thought one could never find in one volume!
One of the essays was by Einstein.  It is entitled Jewish Ideals.
This one short essay changed my life.  If a man like Einstein can
write what he did about Jewish values, I knew in a flash that the
time had come for me to find out just what I come from.  Although
he seemed to have a distorted and hostile view of what he thought
was the Jewish G-d, he nevertheless saw what Jewish ideals really
are.  I decided to learn about what Einstein seemed to see in the
values of Judaism.  And though I my feelings about G-d are oceans
apart from those of Einstein, my life was changed forever because
of this secular Jew with the really bad haircut!
-- 
   "One can be a racist.  Or one can be a human being.  But one
may not be both."
                                 - Rabbi Abraham Joshua heschel
From: chr04ha@vmsa.technion.ac.il (Amitai Halevi)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
Subject: Re: Jewish Fundamentalism
Date: 12 Nov 92 09:53:37 GMT
Organization: Technion, Israel Institute of Technology

In article <1992Nov10.183236.3309@cs.yale.edu>, wassermn@ariel.chem.yale.edu 
(Thierry A. W. Wasserman) writes:
> I definitively remember having studied evolution in 'kita yod'
> (10th grade).
> it was a secular school in north TA, i'm not sure if it was
> the teachers initiative or part of the official countriwide(sp?)
> curriculum. does anybody know?

As I noted in my previous post, it has been part of the official
country-wide [this spelling should be safe (:-)] curriculum for
as long as I can remember - and that is pretty long, as indicated 
in my signature below. Needless to add, it still is.

It is amusing that the erstwhile (Orthodox) Minister of Education,
Zvulun Hammer, had nothing to say against it until his replacement   
by the (secularist) Shulamit Aloni. Only then did he join the chorus
against teaching the "heretical" theory of Dervin(sic!).

Amitai		  

 *---------------------------------------------------------------*
 | E.A. Halevi, Department of Chemistry, Technion - I.I.T.       |     
 | "Mipnei seiva takum, vehadarta pnei zaken" - Leviticus 19, 32 |
 *---------------------------------------------------------------*

> Thierry A.W. Wasserman
From: rlk@underprize.think.com (Robert Krawitz)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
Subject: Re: Einstein and Judaism
Date: 10 Nov 92 18:38:02
Organization: Thinking Machines Corporation, Cambridge Mass., USA
NNTP-Posting-Host: underprize.think.com
In-reply-to: gpalo@digi.lonestar.org's message of 10 Nov 92 20:27:13 GMT

In article <1992Nov10.202713.3130@digi.lonestar.org> gpalo@digi.lonestar.org (Gerry Palo) writes:

   Eli Chiprout (emmc@do3carleton.ca) writes:

   >Einstein was unable to accept Quantum Theory because of his belief in an
								^^^^^^
   >objective, orderly reality; a reality which would not be subject to random
   >events and which would not be dependent upon the observer.  He believed that
								   ^^^^^^^^
   >QM was incomplete, and that a better theory would have no need for
   >statistical interpretations.  

   This is a most enlightening characterization of the views of the man
   who was arguably the greatest scientist of the twentieth century.
   How many subscribers to alt.atheism, skeptic, etc. grasp the fact
   that in science as well as religion belief plays a central, even
   gating role in one's view of reality.

Well, given that you're confusing two different kinds of "belief",
plenty more than you seem to think.  Belief in a hypothesis strong
enough to make someone work at testing it is essential for people to
carry out science.  However, blind faith is quite another matter -- a
scientist must be prepared to reject a theory that fails tests.
Furthermore, you've picked a bad example if you were trying to make a
point, as every experiment to test QM has verified it, and some of those
experiments have been rather severe tests, so Einstein's "belief" now
appears to be incorrect.

There is >>NOTHING<< wrong with making a starting hypothesis and working
from that point.  From a scientific point of view, there is absolutely
nothing wrong with hypothesizing a god, even!  "Science" does not take
the "strong atheistic" (my quotes) position that you ascribe to it;
science is a way of procedure (it's more akin to halacha than to
belief).  Einstein hypothesized that the universe is deterministic, as
opposed to the probabilistic universe of quantum mechanics.  However,
his belief could be tested by testing quantum theory, and thus far
quantum theory has passed every test with flying colors.

Finally, I might point out that the fact that Einstein rejected QM did
not prevent others from working on it.  Greatest scientist of the 20th
century or not, this was merely his personal belief, and was not taken
as more than that by anyone else.
--
ames >>>>>>>>>  |	Robert Krawitz <rlk@think.com>	245 First St.
bloom-beacon >  |think!rlk				Cambridge, MA  02142
harvard >>>>>>  .	Thinking Machines Corp.		(617)234-2116

Member of the League for Programming Freedom -- write lpf@uunet.uu.net
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
From: lemson@ux1.cso.uiuc.edu (David Lemson)
Subject: Re: McDonalds in Israel
Organization: University of Illinois at Urbana
Date: Sun, 8 Nov 1992 18:36:22 GMT

backon@vms.huji.ac.il writes:

>I just read in the Israeli papers that McDonalds is *finally* coming to Israel.
>I wonder if a Big Mac will be renamed BIG MOISHE :-)  :-)

Hopefully they'll bring in their own hamburger meat so it doesn't
taste like that bizarre stuff they serve at Burger Ranch.  :-)
(BTW, how are Wendy's hamburgers nowadays?  I left Israel right as
one was opening up on Dizengoff and haven't been back in a few
years)
-- 
David Lemson                                                (217) 244-1205
University of Illinois NeXT Campus Consultant / CCSO NeXT Lab System Admin
Internet : lemson@uiuc.edu                UUCP :...!uiucuxc!uiucux1!lemson 
NeXTMail accepted                                  BITNET : LEMSON@UIUCVMD
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish
From: norm@helix.nih.gov
Subject: Re: NEED SOME KNOWLEDGE ABOUT JUDAISM
Originator: scj@israel.nysernet.org
Reply-To: <norm@helix.nih.gov>
Organization: Nysernet
Date: Mon, 9 Nov 1992 15:15:40 GMT

>On Mon, 9 Nov 1992, KAZI ASIMUDDIN wrote:
>
>> I need some knowledge about judaism, could somebody send some basic knowledge
>> about judaism.!!!!!!!!
>> 
>> Thank you
>> 
>
>do not unto others as you would not have them do unto you. the rest is
>commentary. go and study it.
>
>
>
>Seth L. Ness                         Ness Gadol Hayah Sham
>ness@aecom.yu.edu                      
Sounds familiar.  Still the best description, and certainly the shortest.
+--------------------------------------------------------+
   

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