Organization: Virginia Department of Health
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.christia
Date:         Mon, 11 Jan 1993 22:57:12 EST
From:         "Michael A. Kline" <MKLINE@VDH.BITNET>
Subject:      Christian Nation 2-04

                          Our Founding Fathers:
            Did they intend America to be a Christian Nation?
                          John Ankerberg Show.

    Part 2-04 ---------------------------------------------------------->

    John: Well next you say, "Well, maybe George Washington and Benjamin
Franklin were super spiritual and they were the only ones who wanted to
make God and Christian principles a part of the government. But there
can't be too many other Founding Fathers who believed like them. I mean
that's what my university professor told me. Well, how about John Quincy
Adams? He was a Founding Father and also president of the United States.
What did he think?

    David: Another Founding Father who had much to say about the
importance of religious principles to public affairs was John Quincy
Adams. Now John Qunicy Adams was a terrific Founding Father. He's not
only a Founding Father, he's the President of the United States. He was a
Secretary of State. He was a foreign Ambassador to 3 different nations.
He was a US Senator. He spent 18 years in the House of Representatives,
etc. When the Fourth of July celebration came up, everyone wanted to have
an original Founding Father there, so he was asked to speak all over the
nation, at Fourth of July.

    MAKS> Can't see why comments are needed here, but I feel that someone
is going to complain once again that "Look, they're trying to hold up a
Founding Father like he was some type of religious leader." I don't see
this to be anything more than a list of qualifications, much as one may
put on a resume. It shouldn't matter if he was a janitor for 40 years,
but still, an attempt to show that this was someone who helped build our
country, and this is what he thought. The rest of the comments will be
toward the end of this post. The next paragraphs tie pretty strongly
together and serve to build their point.

    One of his speeches was this one that he delivered on July 4, 1837.
Now this particular speech. This is late in his life. He is very elderly.
And this is called "An oration delivered before the inhabitants of the
town of Newburyport at their request on the 61st anniversary of the
Declaration of Independence." (MAKS> Whew!)

    He said "Why is it, that next to the birthday of the Savior of the
World, our most joyous and most venerated festival occurs on this day?"
He says why is it in America the 4th of July is celebrated second only to
Christmas? Here's his answer.

    He says, "Is it not that in the chain of human events, the birthday
of the nation is indecideably linked with the birthday of the Savior,
that it forms a leading event in the progress of the Gospel's
dispensation? Is it not that the Declaration of Independence first
organized the social compact on the foundation of the Redeemer's mission
on earth? That it laid the cornerstone of human government on the first
precepts of Christianity?" ... and on it goes for 61 pages.

    He says that the reason that the Fourth of July and Christmas are our
top 2 holidays in America is because they are intimately related. He said
what we did at the Fourth of July was that we took the precepts that
Christ brought into the world at His birth, and we simply put them into a
form of government. We became the first Christian government in the
history of the world. And he said that's why they are our top two
holidays.

    This is a Founding Father who was there through out. He was one of
the early presidents himself. And he was very emphatic about making sure
that future generations knew that the basis of our government had been
the principles of Christianity, that our Declaration of Independence was
formed on it, and that's what was intended to be in our government.

    MAKS> I think this may have more strongly addressed the "Christian
Nation" point more than the other presentations. Adams is quite strong in
his point. Like I said, maybe he's wrong in your eyes, but that is his
right. Besides, he's dead, and it's hard to argue, but hopefully, I'll
get to ask him when I get there, by and by.

    MAKS> It may make for some interesting conversation. Is it REALLY
wrong what he believed? Is there any scripture that directly supports or
refutes? Any that applies at all? This also goes back to the "comment"
post I just made about "What kind of government would you have? What
would you base it on?" Would it be based on the Bible or on what felt
good for the time? How would you handle abortion? Gays? (No, I don't mean
stoning, but special rights? If "your" gay population started having
something like AIDS, would you allow them to keep it secret, or would you
have rules to handle it like any other disease? Isolation, contract
tracing, quarantine?) Anyhow there are several points that can be
discussed, not simply "How in the heck can you believe that a Christian
Nation is possible?" Those poor Russians. They appear to be caught in
this "Make the nation Christian trap" now.

Maks.
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